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Re: Logelloop multitrack realtime audio looper for MAC OS 10.4 and 10.5

Hi Per,

Thanks for your explanation to the gang.

Le 31 déc. 07 à 02:42, Per Boysen a écrit :

Hi Gang,

I too have had a go with Logelloop today and I really like this looper! I was a bit reluctant first, until I read the "Logelloop Macro Programming Reference Guide". With macro's I will be able to loop with the same concept I used with EDP/Repeater and like to use with Mobius; ie improvising chord changes in the loop while playing along and even overdubbing into the loop. Logelloop also has a wonderful potential as "groove machine looper" because you can swap presets by pedal controlled macro's. One particularly exciting test I did today was to set up Speed changes for all tracks in advance and then start out by recording a short and punchy percussion loop ("flute spitting"), kick Overdub and play almost the same riff. Since I'm starting out in Normal Overdub Mode each new loop layer will be recorded to a new track (Logellop is like a Repeater with ten tracks - ie ONE loop by TEN tracks). Ok, I record almost the same percussive riff on every track, but since they are pre-configured at different Speed the instant orchestrated effect is a smashing poly rhythm. You could eventually break the chain at track 8 or nine by kicking Multiply instead and layer the final tracks as longer layers. Or you could kick the Overdub Mode into Mix to overdub many layers into the same loop, at the end.

At this point I reached my first question mark: When working in Mix Overdub Mode I wasn't able to find the feedback control? Where is it?

Yes, it is in the transport window, just under the Normal/Mix Mode/Replace button.
I uploaded a new version of the manual on the logelloop site last night : http://logelloop.logellou.com/Download.html
In this new version Mixed overdub in explained and also Granulaterre and Delay.

I was also delighted to find, in the Macro Reference Guide, that you can "quantize" the execution of a macro to either wait until the end of the loop or until the beginning of the loop. I don't yet understand what practical difference one or the other would make though. Such "quantizing" is essential for the above mentioned looping technique, if you write a macro that recalls a preset with a setup of different track Speed settings to form a new chord. You can also "quantize" preset recalls by the settings in the mixer's preset section (direct/instantly, by end or by beginning of loop).

In the programming world, between the end of the loop and the beginning of the loop, there is a lot of thing to do!
If you want to make something that can take some time to be effective, it may be better to use WaitEndLoop.

My second question mark regarding Logelloop has to do with VST plug-in synchronization. I was opening a VST OhmBoyz delay (by OhmForce in France!!!) as Aux FX and the BPM value did not seem to follow the tempo implied by the length of the loop I was creating. I double-checked with Ableton Live and found that the VST OhmBoyz displayed the correct tempo in that VST host. I need to do more listening tests on this tomorrow, to late now for my neighbors, to see if it is a graphical bug in Logelloop or if the VST tempo information is broken on its way to the plug-in.

The problem is inside Logelloop.
There is no tempo connection or midi sync between Logelloop and the loaded plugs.
We hope to change that as soon as possible, no date for it though.

Maybe, if you need an external Fx to replace one of your favorite synced delay, i can work on it and add it to the next version (1.1 will release soon i think). For this, you just have to describe exactly what you want.

Speaking about VST, why staying with that old and inflated format? Steinberg never steered it up properly and today it's just a mess out there. Third party plug-in developers tend to give priority to creating AU versions for the new Intel CPU armed Apple computers. If there was a "AU to VST Converter" available I would buy it right away, since my favorite plug-ins are AU only and will never appear as Universal Binary VST versions.

Yes, i agree with you on this point.
AU support is also planned.

Speaking about those Aux FX slots, I couldn't hear any sounding difference when moving the volume fader for fx1 and fx2? I had to control the effect level only by the send level.

The Fxs faders works but maybe the curve is strange... And note that the VU-meter is pre-fader by default, to change this cilck on "Vu pre" at the left end of the main window.
The FX faders control the output of the plugs and not the input summation to it.

Finally, I did not understand what type of "MIDI Synchronization" is mentioned in the Macro Reference Guide. Is it MIDI Clock or is it Midi Time Code? And what is it for? Nothing on that in the manual. My guess is that it's about MIDI Clock and then I'm of course curious if Logelloop has some sort of internal synchronization system that sends the same MIDI Synch Commands to VST Plug-ins loaded into the two Aux FX slots?

The midi sync you in the macro guide is related to the internal metronome of Logelloop.
But in Logelloop v1.0, you can't access directly to the metronome, we still have a bug to fix before making it accessible.
The metronome will permit to create quantized loops.
Note that the metronome of Granulaterre is actually the main metronome and in logelloop v1.1, you will be able to synchronize your loops to Granulaterre.

Oh, almost forgot one big question mark. When trying to load the VST Plug-in Pluggo Rye, from Cycling74, a pluggo error message informed me that "there were 69 errors loading this effect". What a shame, Pluggo are so nice!

I am downloading the demo version of Pluggo and I look at it. I will keep you informed.

Logelloop looks nice too. Screen grab: http://www.looproom.com/logelloop.png

On 30 dec 2007, at 21.08, Philippe ollivier wrote:

When you use a pitch, you need time to calculate. So if only one track is pitched, it is not synced to other tracks. So, I decided to insert a delay in the other tracks to maintain the music synchronization. The problem is when you need to make an overdub if (at least one track is pitched or streched). It is the reason why i prefer to record my sound before playing with pitch and strech...

That's why I love Speed!!!! ;-)) I'm not so sure the problem with slow calculation of Pitch can ever be solved. The best "Pitch Issue" I've seen (heard) is in the old Repeater. When I sent a new tempo or pitch command to my Repeater it kind of caught up slowly. That's much better compared to playing everything right on time but with a crackling fidelity until the new order is stable, as some software do. Pitch Transformation and Time Stretching can be instantly carried out in software when applied to already recorded audio. Then the software uses a look-ahead function to gain the time needed for calculations, but those precious milliseconds just don't exist in live music where audio is created and sent into the machinery by carbon based musicians. So for live looping pitch sucks and speed rocks.

I agree, i also prefer speed...

Philippe OLLIVIER.