Congratulations on your looping experience. I just wanted to say that at the recent Y2K3 festival that 17 out of 27 loopers were NON-guitarists (well that did include two bassists and a warwicken, but ask Yngve 'fucking' Malmstein if a bass is a guitar ---------<nods his head bemusedly in the direction of Brian Kenney Fresno).' The guitarists, by the way, were wonderfully innovative and I hardly saw an e-bow the whole time. The whole 'frippertronics' vibe was, quite honestly, nowhere to be heard. Maybe it's time that we redefine who we are in this community. I think the ambient Fripp clone image is starting to become outdated but I only have the festival as my petrie dish.* rick * I like ambient guitar music, by the way, just so noone thinks I'm being 'Us and Them' about my comments.