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Re: Loopers-Delight-d Digest V00 #76

In a message dated 3/10/00 5:18:53 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
Loopers-Delight-d-request@annihilist.com writes:

<< I happen to know a good number of self-proclaimed liberals (who also 
 to consider themselves intellectuals - what a surprise!) 

I consider myself to be pretty liberal politically.  I do not consider 
to be an intellectual.  I spoke of intellectual properties or functions, 
assuming it to mean "those that the intellect engages in", not that such 
practices were exclusively the domain of 'intellectuals' per se.

>who have the standard knee-jerk reaction to Ayn Rand

I don't think it was 'knee-jerk', I did honestly try keep an open mind 
a lot of it.  Ironically, I felt like the unspoken message I was getting 
a lot of it was to close my mind.

> Perhaps so-called liberals just can't
> stand the idea of an individual sometimes being more important than the
 >so-called Whole?  

I don't doubt for a second a great number of people feel this way.  I just 
don't think it's the most productive way for a society to function. 

>Sorry folks, it's necessary on most occasions to rise up above the norm; 
etc, etc, etc

Sorry, man, this is the kind of elitist double-talk that really turned me 
to the whole thing.  I think in many ways these people that you're feeling 
superior to have a lot more going on than the one(s) doing the so-called 

> Rand's portrayal of those Other Than The Individual in "The 
>Fountainhead" is
> probably what originally pissed off liberals though 

It doesn't really piss me off, that would require me devoting far more 
toward it than it's worth, frankly.  I just think it's useless as a 
philosophy.  I'm turned off by the facistic narrow-mindedness that it 
to require of its followers, so I just try to avoid them and go about my 

> If you don't think there's a difference between people who create, and 
> who don't, perhaps it's one's own lack of creativity that urges such 
> SPURIOUS thinking.
Meaning specifically, MY lack of creativity?  There's one argument I'm not 
even going to touch...

Despite you wanting to wage a 'class war' of sorts between those that 
and those that don't, I invite you to consider two things:  1) unless you 
want an audience of artists only, this relationship is symbiotic, and 2) 
people of all walks of life have and exercise creativity in their daily 
in many ways.  Most of them just aren't so friggin' precious and pompous 
about it.

Since I've read here a few times that this thread is losing interest on a 
list that has nothing to do with this subject, and frankly I see little 
that's more useless in the grand scheme of things than an ersatz 
philosophical discussion via internet (as entertaining as this has been), 
have work to do and kids to take care of.  If you want to send me 
off list, I'll welcome it and get to it when I can, but as for this list 
back to lurker status for me.

Since I know from personal experience that's it's vitally important to 
Objectivists that there be a clear-cut winner and loser in every 
take this forfeit however you like...

Hakuna Matata :-)

Ken R