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Re: Cutting Time
On 2.Nov2013, at 10:40 AM, Philip Clevenger <phil.clevenger@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Per yes sounds like we are in agreement - though i fear the complexity
> of writing Paste might block the possibility of attaining cuT ;)
hm… I would not mind to create Cut without Paste for a start. and once I
am at it, probably its not too complicated to create both
but: the Echoloop is meant to stay where the EDP was
and for the Evoloop plugin I need new graphics and such, so its not so
soon we get any new features out :-(
>
> That said, Andy (or Undy) has coined some prizewinning new words, to go
> with Matthias’ brilliant “Unsert.”
>
> “Outsert” and “Undont” thrill me in unspeakable ways. I don’t even care
> what they might mean :)
hahaha, thats how I feel! why not create functions from names?
>
> Phil :)
>
>
> On Nov 2, 2013, at 5:58 AM, Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Yes you're right, Phil - "Cut Time" is the most descriptive. How about
>> simply calling the function what it is: Cut Time, but typing "cuT" in
>> menus etc? As a sort of logic abbreviation.
>>
>> Speaking about functionality I think real cut-n-paste is better. In
>> your particular application (looking for "the opposite of EDPs
>> Insert/Stutter") one could just use the Cut without ever Pasting it in
>> somewhere.
>> ...
>> Greetings from Sweden
>>
>> Per Boysen
>> www.perboysen.com
>> http://www.youtube.com/perboysen
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 1:46 PM, Philip Clevenger
>> <phil.clevenger@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Per you are right that the word cut has an invisible sibling called
>>> paste,
>>> and we’ve not at all been talking about Pasting anything we’ve cut yet
>>> (though wouldn’t that be interesting).
>>>
>>> In Ableton we do have Cut, which (predictably) cuts content; but we
>>> also
>>> have Cut Time, which does exactly what we are talking about here:
>>> eliminates
>>> a section of time and joins the remaining bits together.
>>>
>>> So I very much disagree about the use of Erase for such a feature -
>>> Erase,
>>> to continue the tape metaphor, removes content but not time or media.
>>>
>>> We erase all the time already by turning feedback to zero while a loop
>>> is
>>> running right?
>>>
>>> Trim has connotations from the video world - shortening a clip by
>>> defining
>>> new start and stop points within the existing clip.
>>>
>>> Truncate has the connotation of leaving off the ending of a sentence…
>>> this
>>> may be more akin to those Mobius operations that cut content and time
>>> from
>>> the switch point to end of loop?
>>>
>>> - - -
>>>
>>> So yes cut and paste would be fun, but what we're looking for is
>>> simply the
>>> opposite of Stutter or the opposite of Insert, so should be named
>>> accordingly - probably best are Unsert, Cut, or Remove in my opinion.
>>> While
>>> Stutter and Insert make the loop longer, this feature would, by the
>>> same
>>> mechanism and rules, make the loop shorter - it’s a bookend symmetry
>>> :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> - - - - -
>>>
>>> Phil :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 2, 2013, at 4:47 AM, Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On most DAWs this process is called "cut". Sometimes "global cut", in
>>> case the command is to affect several tracks. In a DAW the CUT process
>>> brings the snippet into the buffer so you can paste in somewhere else
>>> on the music's time line and this is different from live looping. In
>>> live looping we just want to annihilate a slice, get rid of it for
>>> ever, and splice together the two cuts seamlessly.
>>>
>>> CUT is not fully descriptive, but it is short and does not interfere
>>> with other existing processes in live looping. Has anyone suggested
>>> ERASE? The word itself implies that it's not about deleting the whole
>>> shebang, so therefore I think ERASE is just as good as CUT. Maybe
>>> ERASE is a snip better, since it can't fool anyone into erroneously
>>> think that it is about the usual cut-and-paste that we use every day
>>> with computers (ctr/cmd X).
>>>
>>> We do cut out a snippet in live looping but only to annihilate that
>>> slice and not to paste it in somewhere.
>>>
>>> If comparing with traditional DAW sampling vocabulary (that draws on
>>> the tape cutting and splicing at IRCAM by the late fifties and on) we
>>> also have TRIM and TRUNCATE that a.f.a.i.k. mean the same, in essence
>>> the exact opposite to the process we're talking about in this thread.
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> But HEY - here's an idea for yet another very useful live looping
>>> process! Maybe some nifty programmer can create a live looping
>>> function for CUT-AND-PASTE that works like a linked pair of CUT and
>>> INSERT? Scramble in LP1 does that by random and in Mobius we have
>>> scripting support for random and musically systematic cut-n-insert.
>>> Many times when playing I have been missing the option to kick a pedal
>>> to cut out a sub cycle (and have the gap spliced together) and then
>>> kick another pedal (or the same if using a dual command button switch)
>>> to have the loop cut, widened and the snipped pasted in right there.
>>> Strange that it doesn't exist in any existing looper yet, isn't it? I
>>> do it a lot when editing recordings but it would be so fun to cut and
>>> paste in real-time on looping audio.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> .
>>> ...
>>> Greetings from Sweden
>>>
>>> Per Boysen
>>> www.perboysen.com
>>> http://www.youtube.com/perboysen
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 10:21 AM, andy butler <akbutler@tiscali.co.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Matthias Grob wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> so what should Unsert do then?
>>> :-)
>>>
>>>
>>> I thought
>>>
>>> Unsert = opposite of Insert
>>>
>>> but only if
>>>
>>> Undo = opposite of Do
>>>
>>> maybe better to say
>>>
>>> "Outsert" for taking out a a piece of time from the loop.
>>>
>>>
>>> what about
>>>
>>> Indo
>>>
>>> Undont
>>>
>>> andy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>