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Re: Critique of Critique of Feedback at Max
The red pill or the blue pill? Both!
M...
At 11:30 PM 8/13/02 -0700, you wrote:
>Oh my, it's some loop philosophy... how can I resist? 8()
>
>How ya doin', Rick?
>
>"Rick Walker/Loop.pooL" wrote:
>
>> Matthias (whose music I adore and who I consider a good new friend)
>> wrote:
>>
>> "I just shortly repeat what Kim an me pointed several time at on
>this
>> list:
>> With FB constantely at max, the loop turns into a ball on a chain:
>The
>> phrase you started with keeps you in the same mood, you cannot evolve
>when
>> you feel its time, just revolve, chopp off... ;-"
>>
>> This can happen, certainly, but there are many ways of making music.
>> I, personally, am not a fan of Jazz Fusion as an example,
>> but to categorically state that this music keeps you in the same mood
>> because I don't happen to enjoy the form is absurd.
>
>I personally didn't take Matthias' comment as an aesthetic judgement at
>all. To me, it's an expression of a technical concern, and a very
>important and valid one at that: what do you do with a loop once you've
>built up a texture, if you don't have feedback control?
>
>I would speculate that the comment about "the same mood" is not a
>reflection of Matthias' personal listening taste, but rather the
>loopists' challenge when working with a loop without feedback: how do
>you evolve the texture aside from either overdubbing more and more
>layers to it (thereby creating an ever-denser texture), and/or ending it
>abruptly (which are the two possibilities Matthias described in his
>original remark)?
>
>Feedback is an incredible tool for this sort of thing, and Matthias'
>incredibly fluid and organic style would be unthinkable without it.
>It's just like I couldn't imagine doing what I like to do without a
>momentary Replace function (and, increasingly, 8th/cycle quantization,
>cycle-quantized loop switching, DirectMIDI, etc. etc.) - that's MY own
>solution to how I develop a loop and change its direction. (Ironically
>enough, I can regularly play a whole concert without ever touching the
>feedback control...)
>
>> I love repetition, personally. I have loved Terry Riley, Philip
>Glass,
>> Hamza El Din, Reggae, et. al.
>
>I like their stuff too. And I would point to works like "In C" or
>"Music For 18 Musicians" as good general examples of the sort of
>principle Matthias is talking about: the idea that you can evolve the
>loop by fading various elements in and out of the picture, and that over
>time, the entire textural content of a basic "loop" can completely
>change and evolve, in subtle and organic ways.
>
>> It's really o.k. if Kim or Mattias don't. But let's keep our
>> communications and our aesthetic biases clear. A personal aesthetic
>> predilection is exactly that: a personal predilection. It's ok to
>have
>> them without being judgemental about others.
>
>I don't believe either Kim or Matthias are opposed to repetitive music -
>if they were, they'd very likely find something to do with their lives
>other than design looping software! 8()
>
>And in the case of Kim and Matthias, it's important to remember that
>you're talking about two guys who have designed several versions of a
>software which is utterly without peer in its particular focus and
>design angle. There are things the EDP was doing in its software
>version 8 years ago that STILL haven't been duplicated or matched. I
>can only imagine how frustrating it must sometimes be to have spent so
>much time working on an instrument that's still so underrated and
misunderstood.
>
>So I'm all for discussing these expanded possibilities, because it
>increases the general understanding of the tools of the trade. And it
>also allows a fascinating insight into some of the creative corners of
>the design process in general. For instance, the EDP's
>painstakingly-programmed 127 discreet feedback values assume a
>tremendous amount of significance when you see and hear Matthias'
>seamless work. Some of the more "out there" Echoplex functions make
>more sense when you find out that Kim Flint is a big hip-hop, jungle,
>and heavy metal fan.
>
>I think it's fantastic that there are folks like yourself, Rick, who are
>making great music with very simple units like a DL4. But I also think
>it's important to make people in general aware of the possibilities that
>lie beyond simply recording, repeating, and overdubbing. A lot of these
>techniques are not very difficult to use, they already exist in many of
>the devices people presently own, and they can open tremendous doors
>into different technical and aesthetic avenues.
>
>It's one thing to choose to work within very tight technical
>constraints, the way you have. But it's another thing to be unwittingly
>constrained by one's own expectations of the parameters that are
>available, simply because they never explored the other options out
>there, you know?
>
>> Everyone is Creative. I think there is a disturbing trend in
>western
>> culture specifically to be perfectionistic and judgemental.
>> I think that we, as artists and loopers have a great opportunity to
>> reverse this trend (if only in a small,small way) and actively support
>> people's creativity. It's all good.
>
>I agree that it's important to encourage people to do their thing. But
>I also adamently feel that it's JUST as important to approach an art
>form from a respectfully critical point of view.
>
>In other words, don't just settle for what's commonly available. Don't
>just work within the parameters of what we commonly associate with these
>tools. Don't just accept that looping HAS to sound a certain way.
>
>Why shouldn't we challenge ourselves - and one another - in a healthy,
>respectful, encouraging way, to go beyond what we expect, and what we
>already know we can do?
>
>I haven't seen anything that Kim or Matthias have said that I would
>describe as disrespectful to other people's music. Can they be blunt?
>You bet. Direct? Absolutely. Fed up with the status quo? For sure.
>Challenging? I sure HOPE so. But I think that's how any art form grows
>and develops - by having a healthy dissatisfaction with the way things
>are already done.
>
>Maybe this is easy for me to say, Rick, since I've heard both of these
>gentlement express their very deep respect and appreciation for your
>music. So I know they're not knockin' ya... far from it, in fact.
>
>Well damn, I guess this is a brain spew and a half. Time to get back to
practicing!
>
>Hope y'all are well tonight.
>
>Woo hah,
>
>--Andre LaFosse
>The Echoplex Analysis Pages:
>http://www.altruistmusic.com/EDP
>
>