------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain Loopers-Delight-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 24 Today's Topics: repopulate the species [ sarajane@tmbsbbs.com (Sarajane) ] Re: music just for musicians? [ kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) ] Re: music just for musicians? [ PMimlitsch@aol.com ] Sticking with looping [ David_Mitchell@HP-Australia-notes1. ] Re: music just for musicians? [ The Man Himself ] Re: music just for musicians? [ Dpcoffin@aol.com ] Re: music just for musicians? [ Paolo Valladolid ] Administrivia: Looper's Delight **************** Please send posts to: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Don't send them to the digest! To subscribe/unsubscribe to the Loopers-Delight digest version, send email with "subscribe" (or "unsubscribe") in both the subject and the body, with no signature files, to: Loopers-Delight-d-request@annihilist.com To subscribe/unsubscribe to the real Loopers-Delight list, send email with "subscribe" (or "unsubscribe") in both the subject and the body, with no signature files, to: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Check the web page for archives and lots of other goodies! http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html Your humble list maintainer, Kim Flint kflint@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 17:34:44 GMT From: sarajane@tmbsbbs.com (Sarajane) To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: repopulate the species Message-Id: <97020216300275@tmbsbbs.com> Dear Loopers I'm Bryan's loopy wife, Sarajane, delurking to say that you have an almost perfect inversion of the stats you need for that repopulation thing to work....3-4 females, (maybe) to more than a hundred males.....just like a King Crimson crowd at the concerts...or the guitarcraft demographics....and if we few females breed, we lose our "repetitive cyclic" aspects...do we then disqualify as "loopers"? What about when we put the guitars down to tend the newest loop generation? Hmmmm.perhaps we'd best stick with the population at hand. Sarajane ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 17:20:02 -0800 From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: music just for musicians? Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>and horn players, and Leni Stern is one of only a handful of female guitarists >>to receive any recognition--and if you look at the Guitar Player 30th >>anniversary issue, there she is among the >>"30 players who mattered" offering a looping lesson. > >Yes, but bearing in mind that the average joe does tend to act like a sheep >rather than learn by example, you need to get people who are in said >musician's CD collections, and Leni Stern quite honestly isn't. I'm >probably at a disadvantage here because I'm in the UK and probably aren't >exposed to people like Manring, of whom I'd never heard before the ad. But >in terms of artist association Peavey's new J. ad for the Tubefex will >probably do far more for sales. Hell, that ad could've been for the >Vortex. Yes, if you are trying to sell huge numbers, you aren't going to get it with "musician's musician" type endorsers. You can have David Torn, Robert Fripp, Leni Stern, Michael Manring and a host of other brilliant artists and it won't equal one Smashing Pumpkins. Joe Perry and Slash have never made any remarkably creative or innovative artistic statements, but they sure sold a hell of a lot of Les Pauls..... >No word yet on the discontinuation on the $1000 plex.... ;) How's this: The Oberheim Echoplex is not discontinued. Production has been restarted after a few months of limbo, so they should be readily available soon. There was even something about software that I didn't quite catch..... (and it's more like $800 list, not $1000....) kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 21:02:18 -0500 (EST) From: PMimlitsch@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: music just for musicians? Message-ID: <970202210216_-1643912031@emout18.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 2/2/97 8:24:51 PM, Kim wrote: <> Woa! How do you know what they do in their off time when their not playing the corporate/commercial anything for a buck game? --Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 97 17:54:58 +1000 From: David_Mitchell@HP-Australia-notes1.om.hp.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Sticking with looping Message-Id: <"81846:1*"@MHS> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="Lotus" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit G'day all of you Chapman Stick loopers out there, I'm struggling to justify buying a JamMan (can you say "married with children"?) and I'm wondering about the sorts of things other Stickers are doing with looping. I've been fooling with looping on my Boss delay pedal for a while, but so far I've been getting much better results from guitar than from Stick. Although it's hard to describe "why" in words, guitar techniques that don't transpose to Stick well (such as whammy bar stuff, bending strings prior to picking them) seem to give me the best results. If anyone's got looped Stick audio on the web anywhere, I'd love a pointer to it just to hear what sort of things you're doing. In fact, any looped stuff at all (any instrument) that I could download would certainly be interesting. Regards Dave Mitchell PS By "Stick", I'm including Warr Guitar and other related instruments ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 21:47:49 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: music just for musicians? Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 2 Feb 1997, Kim Flint wrote: > You can have David Torn, Robert > Fripp, Leni Stern, Michael Manring and a host of other brilliant artists > and it won't equal one Smashing Pumpkins. This is one for the FAQ: Billy Corgan as one who has successfully gone BEYOND FRIPP. Maybe Fripp, Torn, Manring, and Stern can start a list to talk about how to go BEYOND THE SMASHING PUMPKINS. 8-/ > (and it's more like $800 list, not $1000....) $799, to be exact. And that's cheaper than where it was a year ago. --Andre ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 22:13:38 -0800 From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: repopulate the species Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 9:34 AM 2/2/97, Sarajane wrote: >Dear Loopers > I'm Bryan's loopy wife, Sarajane, delurking to >say that you have an almost perfect inversion of the stats you need >for that repopulation thing to work....3-4 females, (maybe) to more >than a hundred males.....just like a King Crimson crowd at the >concerts...or the guitarcraft demographics....and if we few females Having been born and raised well after feminism made its cultural mark, I must say I've always been totally baffled by the social prejudice that wiggling one's fingers on a guitar neck is a masculine activity. It would be nice to get looping off to a more egalitarian start. Maybe there's hope - I thought it was cool when my neighbors had a rave and all five dj's were women..... In the case of a Crimson show, perhaps the quantity of receding hairlines and extended waistlines has something to do with the low female turnout? (Sorry, couldn't resist....) >breed, we lose our "repetitive cyclic" aspects...do we then disqualify >as "loopers"? What about when we put the guitars down to tend the newest >loop generation? Hmmmm.perhaps we'd best stick with the population at >hand. > Sarajane Maybe you should keep holding the guitar and tell Bryan to tend the new generation? Better yet, let someone else do the baby-making, and we'll just park our vans near the local elementary school, dangling jammans from the window saying "C'mere kiddies, want to try a weird hobby?" kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 22:20:41 -0800 From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: archives updated Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I updated the archives on the web site this weekend, so all the loop babble from the past month is now available for your endless perusal..... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 22:37:27 -0800 From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Sticking with looping Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >G'day all of you Chapman Stick loopers out there, >If anyone's got looped Stick audio on the web anywhere, I'd love a pointer >to it just to hear what sort of things you're doing. In fact, any looped >stuff at all (any instrument) that I could download would certainly be >interesting. Teed Rockwell has one of his pieces on his website, using Stick and Echoplex: http://www.traktor.com/presents/teed/music.htm kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 12:46:26 GMT From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: music just for musicians? Message-Id: <18540.199702031246@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jon: >Seriously, this is by no means the first time your >arguments have been raised. Jeez - never mind my music, even my _arguments_ aren't original!! :( >I just think it's well worth pointing out some of >the things that you don't know so that you can be more informed about the full >scope of this debate. >Sorry you're not familiar with Manring. He's a real monster, and a heck of a >nice guy as well. As for Ms. Stern, besides the "female" aspect of including >her >in the ad, there's this tiny market here in the states called New York, wherin >Leni is indeed something of a musician's musician.On any given Sunday night you >can run into a host of NY who's whos hanging around the 55 dive. NY.... I think I've heard of that somewhere... oh, yes, Patrick Eggle Guitars named a model after it I think... :b I know that NY is pretty damn important as cities go, but to put it in persective consider the phrase "real musician's musician in LA/London/Paris", all of which hover about the 2/3x smaller than NY. If a box needs to sell globally it needs to be recognised by people not familiar witn the NY jazz scene, or even the jazz scene in toto (No, not Steve Lukather) which may/may not add up to the same thing. >While the >general public isn't so familiar with her, it's astounding how many of the >players are hip to what she's doing. ....and I'm sure they all bought JamMen! :) >Just as an example, the entire current >line-up of the Brecker Brothers band is comprised of her former band mates. And >they're all using the JamMan. Thought so! >Ask Michael Brecker how many people in NY are >following her, and he'll tell you that everyone who's playing owes something >>to her. There are a bunch of high profile session players who are always >asking >her what to buy. I know, 'cause they all called me. I know, it's just >New York, >but if you gotta start somewhere... Name-dropping will get you nowhere!! :) Speaking of which, how _do_ you pronounce Leni? I read an interview with her, after which I was none the wiser... >>> Remember, this box is for a wider audience than just guitar players. >>But guitar players really don't care. Well, most don't. >I dunno. If this list is any indicator, it seems like the creative types who >>are likely to use such a product really do care about other artists besides >guitarists. Yeah, but we're the real creative ones! :) I'd wager that whilst, by definition, loopers are creative types to a large degree, the average creativity (and even intelligence) on alt.gitar, is considerably lower. And that's still among computer-literate college kids. Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 12:39:39 +0000 From: David.Orton@mail.bl.uk (David Orton) To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Looping for the masses Message-ID: <000095EA.1424@mail.bl.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Dear Loopers Presumably I'm not the only one to notice this, or everyone else considers too wide of the mark, but HotWired's Webmonkey page recently provided instructions on how to add an ambient audio loop to Web pages - with the proviso that it'll be as naff as blinking words in 6 months. So - do y'all want it to be *that* popular?! Oh geez - and me not having worked out how to get the Zoom 4040 to transmit MIDI messages to the JamOne yet... Anyway, I can't get back in at the moment for the full URL, but as of this morning its still linked at the bottom of the HotWired index page. David ------------------------------ Date: 03 Feb 97 08:19:51 EST From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: music just for musicians? Message-ID: <970203131950_74074.1316_GHQ31-4@CompuServe.COM> Kim writes- >Yes, if you are trying to sell huge numbers, you aren't going to get it >with "musician's musician" type endorsers. You can have David Torn, Robert >Fripp, Leni Stern, Michael Manring and a host of other brilliant artists >and it won't equal one Smashing Pumpkins. Joe Perry and Slash have never >made any remarkably creative or innovative artistic statements, but they >sure sold a hell of a lot of Les Pauls.... But we're not selling guitars here. We're selling loopers. All guitar players need a guitar. Some guitar players need a looper. You have to start with the "need a looper" crowd to get to the point where you can make an impact with the "all guitarists" crowd. (i.e. get the obvious market before you can start to penetrate the rest of the world. Then, you might get lucky and find that magic crossover point. The big hit that launched the looper into the world of the mainstream. Still waiting...) Later, Jon ------------------------------ Date: 03 Feb 97 08:19:53 EST From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: repopulate the species Message-ID: <970203131953_74074.1316_GHQ31-5@CompuServe.COM> Kim writes: >Maybe you should keep holding the guitar and tell Bryan to tend the new >generation? > >Better yet, let someone else do the baby-making, and we'll just park our >vans near the local elementary school, dangling jammans from the window >saying "C'mere kiddies, want to try a weird hobby?" Not to go into hype mode, but I have to share a secret about my forthcoming CD (mixing later this week at Torn's...): On one track, there are three different guitar parts comprising the piece which were done completely independendt of each other. Put them together and you get sheer hell! V. cool, IMO. Anyway, the point is the fourth soundsource is my (at the time) newborn son. At a coupla weeks, he was a very vocal child, and there was nothing we could do to console him when he'd get going. You just have to wait it out. One night, he began his wailing at about 10:30 and I could tell that April (my wife) really needed a break. So I brought Harrison (vocal meister in question) downstairs and threw a coupla mikes up to record him. Later (several months) I processed/looped his vocalizing, and the results are audible on this track. Anyway, Sarajane: not all loopers leave the tending of their children to the more capable gender--some of us actually enjoy the time we get to spend with our young offspring. Even if it means less loopage. As a father of two and uncle of 11, I can tell you that the next generation is no better prepared for loopage than this one. Suffice it to say that all my nephews and neices can agree on one thing: "Uncle Jon, you're *so* weird!!!" Yeah, I know. Isn't it great? ------------------------------ Date: 03 Feb 97 08:33:23 EST From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: music just for musicians? Message-ID: <970203133323_74074.1316_GHQ31-6@CompuServe.COM> Michael writes: >Speaking of which, how _do_ you pronounce Leni? I read an interview with >her, after which I was none the wiser... She hereslf (in her inimitable German accent) says "leeeni" whereas most people say "laney". Me, I use "leeeni" cuz that's what she says. How would that sound with a Scottish accent? >....and I'm sure they all bought JamMen! :) Many did. Some did not. Some are still waiting for that glorius "all-in-one box" cuz they can't lug around a rack full of processors. >NY.... I think I've heard of that somewhere... oh, yes, Patrick Eggle >Guitars named a model after it I think... :b It's kinda like "Boston's been cancelled. But I wouldn't worry about it, it's not a big college town." >I know that NY is pretty damn important as cities go, but to put it in >persective consider the phrase "real musician's musician in >LA/London/Paris", all of which hover about the 2/3x smaller than NY. If a >box needs to sell globally it needs to be recognised by people not familiar >witn the NY jazz scene, or even the jazz scene in toto (No, not Steve >Lukather) which may/may not add up to the same thing. Yeah, LUKE! That's they guy we need. (Actually, our LA guys talked to him and he apparently babbled incoherently for a while, and they discontinued persuit...) >Yeah, but we're the real creative ones! :) >I'd wager that whilst, by definition, loopers are creative types to a large >degree, the average creativity (and even intelligence) on alt.gitar, is >considerably lower. And that's still among computer-literate college kids. Right, but if you don't even get the obvious target audience first, then you're really in trouble... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 09:37:18 -0500 (EST) From: KingsleyD@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Music just for musicians? Message-ID: <970203093100_1961399411@emout13.mail.aol.com> Jon's comments about the regard in which Leni Stern is held in the NY musician community begs one question - do those people respond to an ad in GP (or Musician, or E-Musician, or whatever) or do they pick up on the Jam Man from talking to Leni, or observing her putting one to use? If they all called Jon because they *talked to* Leni, then what did the ads accomplish? I've had a lot of interest in my own Jam Man from local blues and rock guys who see it as a great practice device - instant rhythm guitar, y'know? Those guys have no idea who *any* of the people were in the ads, nor did they perceive the capability just described at all, even tho' Leni alluded to it in the ad. So who missed the boat here? I suppose that's a problem with any "new" device in the market - if you look at the JM primarily in terms of its genesis - being a "looping device" as relating to music such as Fripp/Eno, Torn, et. al. - it seems clear that you're limiting yourself to a pretty tiny percentage of the (not very big to begin with) MI market. Could someone at Lex have forseen the alternative possibilities and marketed the thing accordingly? Or were they done in by their apparently narrow range of musical taste and vision? (wot, no Chet Atkins fans there?!) What do you think, Jon? The price argument reminds me of Prior's Double Dark, a wonderful Philadelphia-brewed beer available for $2 - $3 a six back in the days when there were *no* drinkable American beers. Some marketing guy decided that they'd sell more if they were priced and sold more like imports - specifically Guinness - and all of a sudden the beer came in 4-paks which cost $6. Within a year, no more Prior's in any form. So what was the problem? Ahead of their time? Misguided marketing? Recession of '82? From *my* perspective as a loyal Prior's fan prior (;->) to their marketing suicide, the whole thing stunk. They took a perfectly good product - one which had basically no competitors - and $%#$$ed it over with a misguided marketing strategy. Can you imagine how well they'd have done if they had just held on at the level they were at, and caught the micro-brewery wave? My gut feeling is the JamMan is a perfectly good product, reasonably priced even at $350-400, that needed to wait for its market to develop. "But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong." --Kingsley ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 14:49:10 GMT From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: music just for musicians? Message-Id: <21996.199702031449@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>Speaking of which, how _do_ you pronounce Leni? I read an interview with >>her, after which I was none the wiser... >She hereslf (in her inimitable German accent) says "leeeni" whereas most people >say "laney". Me, I use "leeeni" cuz that's what she says. How would that sound >with a Scottish accent? "Hen". But that's because _all_ women in Scotland get called Hen. "Nae look, Hen, tha'ss nae the key we're playin'in , ye ken?" (Now look, girl, that's not what key we're planing in, you understand?). Watch Braveheart and do your best. On similar lines, is my .sig decipherable to non-Scots? Incidentally, I'm not Scottish myself, I'm Welsh. I'm just a Scot by marriage. >>....and I'm sure they all bought JamMen! :) >Many did. Some did not. Some are still waiting for that glorius "all-in-one >box" cuz they can't lug around a rack full of processors. Does one particularly light box make the difference? >>NY.... I think I've heard of that somewhere... oh, yes, Patrick Eggle >>Guitars named a model after it I think... :b >It's kinda like "Boston's been cancelled. But I wouldn't worry about it, it's >not a big college town." Well I know there's a college in it 'cos a lectureship in my exact field was advertised for Cloumbia a few weeks ago. My wife just said there was no, _no_ way, not-in-a-million-years she was going anywhere near Manhattan.... Besides, I just read your homepage. You're _biased_, man!! :) :) :) >> If a >>box needs to sell globally it needs to be recognised by people not familiar >>witn the NY jazz scene, or even the jazz scene in toto (No, not Steve >>Lukather) which may/may not add up to the same thing. >Yeah, LUKE! That's they guy we need. (Actually, our LA guys talked to him and >>he apparently babbled incoherently for a while, and they discontinued >persuit) Having read interviews with him I can appreciate that!! Michael Getting further off-topic by the second.... Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 11:49:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" To: Loopers-Delight Subject: RE: Music just for musicians? Message-Id: <9702031700.AA28277@beryllium.lexicon.com> Well I tried to make a simple blanket statement about a very complex situation and it seems that I opened a big can of worms. Has Lexicon made mistakes? Yes, of course. We did try to create interest in the JAMMAN and Vortex. These products did not sell at 1/3 of the rate as the ALEX or REFLEX. Yes there were forecasting problems. Does Lexicon owe it to the community to keep products in the product line? I don't think so. Is Lexicon run by musicians? I wish. Is a discussion of corporate politics really very relevant to this list? I don't believe so but I suppose it is debatable. I do not get it. Which would be worse? The fact that we stopped shipping these products or if they were never made? I was warned when I arrived at this list that John Durant was almost railroaded off of this list. Well his interest in the art of looping has kept him here. I am not running away as I am used to taking the punishment for the actions of others(it has been my job for a long time.) But lets not waste time with this issue. It would be more constructive(and interesting) to discuss what everybody would like to see in the next generation of dedicated(or not) looping technology. Maybe if we are all good on the karmic scale Lexicon or Oberheim(or Roland or Alesis) might answer our prayers. Thank you and best regards, Greg Hogan Lexicon Customer Service Phone 617-280-0372 FAX 617-280-0499 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 12:07:55 -0500 (EST) From: Dpcoffin@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: music just for musicians? Message-ID: <970203114418_1860756087@emout13.mail.aol.com> In pursuit of the one-box-do-it-all, I've been plaguing Greg with PCM-80 queries. The latest back'n'forth seems apropo: <> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 09:40:28 -0800 (PST) From: Paolo Valladolid To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: music just for musicians? Message-Id: <199702031740.JAA12552@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > In a message dated 2/2/97 8:24:51 PM, Kim wrote: > > < made any remarkably creative or innovative artistic statements,>> > > Woa! How do you know what they do in their off time when their not playing > the corporate/commercial anything for a buck game? --Paul Not my intention to add to the flame, but Eddie Van Halen mentioned hs has recordings of himself playing expermental music that he feels he cannot get released. If I recall correctly, he mentioned quite a bit of it was prepared piano-type stuff. Paolo Valladolid --------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ---------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 13:10:40 -0500 From: nyfac To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Starting again Message-ID: <32F77BA0.167E@nyfac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Wrong, Trev. _I_ wrote the above paragraph. Uh, oops. > TW actually thinks of his relationship with music as being a marriage; > has its ups and downs. My personal relationship with music is not that > Does that make me less "legitimate" a musician? I don't that is a question of legitimacy when it comes to music. If you bang on a pan and call it a tune, who is to say you are wrong? There are always arguments of quality, however! :-) > Guys like TW might argue that we who must put in 40 hours a week doing > something other than music are sacrificing time that could have been > spent just making music. On the other hand, consider, like Trev > says about, that we don't have to play the music business game. Unless > you are already very rich and need not worry about income, you have to > play the music business game if you don't have a fulltime job doing > something other than music. I like my job, but when I get out, the idea of slashing out some dissonant squalls on the ol' Jag-o-caster has quite an appeal. > Let's not forget there is no right or wrong here. > > Paolo Valladolid Truer words never spoken. Trev --------------------------------