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From: Steven Clements <sdclements@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 19:10:27 -0700
Message-ID: <CALiEdeE9-CRFFZOfghLNoGc7UJCCaOUNRoLdZ0YWQP+5OgW9Qg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Sweet mother of god...c'mon
To: Tyler <programmer651@comcast.net>
Cc: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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my VCR is flashing 12:00

WTF?!?!?

you LOOPERS are to blame

On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 3:51 PM, Tyler <programmer651@comcast.net> wrote:

> Email loopers-delight-request at loopers-delight.com and put the word
> unsubscribe in both the subject and the body. Just like when you
> subscribed, except type
> unsubscribe. And you must type it in both the subject and the body.
> Tyler Z
> On Mon, 31 Dec 2012 12:19:43 -0800, Christopher Clark wrote:
>
>
> >I wrote two nice emails before to no avail.
> >
> >Please remove this email address form the distro list.
>

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my VCR is flashing 12:00<br><br>WTF?!?!?<br><br>you LOOPERS are to blame<br=
><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 3:51 PM, Tyler <spa=
n dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:programmer651@comcast.net" target=3D"_b=
lank">programmer651@comcast.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Email loopers-delight-request at <a href=3D"=
http://loopers-delight.com" target=3D"_blank">loopers-delight.com</a> and p=
ut the word<br>


unsubscribe in both the subject and the body. Just like when you subscribed=
, except type<br>
unsubscribe. And you must type it in both the subject and the body.<br>
Tyler Z<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">On Mon, 31 Dec 2012 12:19:43 -0800,=
 Christopher Clark wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
&gt;I wrote two nice emails before to no avail.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Please remove this email address form the distro list.<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>

--e0cb4efe2fe285b62404d230a4b3--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jan  1 07:55:25 2013
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From: Philip Clevenger <phil.clevenger@gmail.com>
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Subject: Another New Years Message
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Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 23:55:21 -0800
To: "Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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Happy New Year to all the folks on this list - thanks for all the info =
and insight, patience, brainpower, conversation and everything=85 my =
year was made immeasurably better for having this list in my daily brain =
feed :)

It's been fun meeting many of you at the Y2K events too - hopefully I'll =
get to meet more of you in 2013.

Cheers to all,=20

Phil :)=

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jan  1 13:26:13 2013
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Subject: Re: Music Notation symbols for loops?
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Thanks all for your comments. This seems to sort of validate that there is not a common standard notation for "Ableton clips" in sheet music / lead sheet.

Michael's comment was closest to what I had in mind practically. So, I might stick to using i.e. 2-bar repeat symbols or other stuff I find convenient.

Thanks again - and all the best in the New Year!
Buzap

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Subject: Infinity Looper + Axe-Fx II looper added to my looper comparison chart
From: Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com>
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Hi Friends,

A while back I uploaded to share a chart I made for comparing my
favorite functions in loopers. Now I just updated my chart with two
more units: the Infinity Looper by Pigtronix and the Fractal Audio
Systems Axe-Fx II that actually is a rack mountable guitar preamp with
effects that include a quite decent looper block at preset level (not
global looper positioning)

http://looproom.com/looperchart.php

Please remember that this is not a public information service or a
commercial support aid - it's just my personal sharing of what I think
is useful knowledge to have at hand. Anyone is free to snag the chart
data as it is.

Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.perboysen.com
http://www.youtube.com/perboysen

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jan  1 15:18:07 2013
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Subject: Re: Music Notation symbols for loops?
From: Sylvain Poitras <sylvain.trombone@gmail.com>
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Have you looked at the score to Riley's In C?  No particular symbols, just
a bunch of loops and directions to the musicians.

http://javanese.imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/4/47/IMSLP00899-TerryRiley-InC.pdf

Sylvain


On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 8:26 AM, Buzap Buzap <buzap@gmx.net> wrote:

> Thanks all for your comments. This seems to sort of validate that there is
> not a common standard notation for "Ableton clips" in sheet music / lead
> sheet.
>
> Michael's comment was closest to what I had in mind practically. So, I
> might stick to using i.e. 2-bar repeat symbols or other stuff I find
> convenient.
>
> Thanks again - and all the best in the New Year!
> Buzap
>
>

--047d7b6d962404c23e04d23ba3d2
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Have you looked at the score to Riley&#39;s In C? =A0No pa=
rticular symbols, just a bunch of loops and directions to the musicians.<di=
v><br><div><a href=3D"http://javanese.imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/4/47/I=
MSLP00899-TerryRiley-InC.pdf">http://javanese.imslp.info/files/imglnks/usim=
g/4/47/IMSLP00899-TerryRiley-InC.pdf</a><br>
</div><div><br></div><div style>Sylvain</div></div></div><div class=3D"gmai=
l_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 8:26 AM,=
 Buzap Buzap <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:buzap@gmx.net" target=
=3D"_blank">buzap@gmx.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Thanks all for your comments. This seems to =
sort of validate that there is not a common standard notation for &quot;Abl=
eton clips&quot; in sheet music / lead sheet.<br>

<br>
Michael&#39;s comment was closest to what I had in mind practically. So, I =
might stick to using i.e. 2-bar repeat symbols or other stuff I find conven=
ient.<br>
<br>
Thanks again - and all the best in the New Year!<br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">Buzap<br>
<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>

--047d7b6d962404c23e04d23ba3d2--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jan  1 20:46:59 2013
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Subject: Re: Infinity Looper + Axe-Fx II looper added to my looper comparison chart
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Thanks Per, very helpful !

I have an Infinity that I'm setting up with a 34oneII and an iphone for =
click track
basically trying to recreate my giant RC50 setup in a smaller and more =
versatile package

looks like Pigtronix will be doing a lot of updating of the Infinity =
over time, adding features, pretty cool, great company.

Teddy

On Jan 1, 2013, at 10:14 AM, Per Boysen wrote:

> Hi Friends,
>=20
> A while back I uploaded to share a chart I made for comparing my
> favorite functions in loopers. Now I just updated my chart with two
> more units: the Infinity Looper by Pigtronix and the Fractal Audio
> Systems Axe-Fx II that actually is a rack mountable guitar preamp with
> effects that include a quite decent looper block at preset level (not
> global looper positioning)
>=20
> http://looproom.com/looperchart.php
>=20
> Please remember that this is not a public information service or a
> commercial support aid - it's just my personal sharing of what I think
> is useful knowledge to have at hand. Anyone is free to snag the chart
> data as it is.
>=20
> Greetings from Sweden
>=20
> Per Boysen
> www.perboysen.com
> http://www.youtube.com/perboysen
>=20

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jan  1 21:30:09 2013
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Subject: Re: Re: Music Notation symbols for loops?
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On 12/31/2012 4:17 AM, Per Boysen wrote:
>   I once had a
> chance to study a score by Elliot Sharp for an octet and he had simply
> penned in instructions in plain English to the musicians on the bars
> where that made more sense then traditional notation symbols.
Yeah, Per,  in even simpler contexts,  I often notate the percentage of 
swing when writing out a transcription
of , say,  a New Orleans 2nd Line rhtyhm that has a certain kind of feel.

It's all notation, whether verbal or symbollic, so the point is ,"How 
clearly can I communicate to the musicians
what I intend to be done"

To me,  on a piece of paper writing something like this makes sense when 
notating synchronized
loops of different lengths (sorry,  I can't find a music notation font, 
but you get the idea).


LOOP #1 (hi hat)
*4/4  ||:  X * X X * X * X X * X * X X * X**:||*

LOOP #2 (clave)
*4/4  ||:  X * * X * * * X * * X * X * * * | **X * * X * * * * * * X * X 
* X * :||
*

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Subject: Re: Soft synths for guitar
From: Kevin Cheli-Colando <billowhead@gmail.com>
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--f46d04462d769da25704d242e211
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Thanks for the recommendations.  I'm especially glad to be reminded about
crystal.  And free to boot.  I think I have enough to crash my MacBook now.

Happy new year all.

Kevin

On Monday, December 31, 2012, Philip Conway wrote:

> I'm a sucker for virtual analog sounds, so I love U-he's Diva.  It's very
> processor-hungry but it sounds amazing.  U-he's Zebra also has a Zebrify
> mode that turns pitch straight into notes without midi conversion.
>
>
> On Mon, December 31, 2012 1:07 am, Kevin Cheli-Colando wrote:
> > Well, after figuring out how to use Live to do some of what I want to
> > accomplish (thanks m=F6bius too), I've realized I can complicate and ex=
pand
> > my rig even further.
> >
> > So, with that in mind, anyone have any soft synths they find especially
> > fun
> > to play via guitar synth?  I seem to recall Absynth being a good
> > possibility but I thought I'd appeal to the freaky genius living here t=
o
> > get some ideas.
> >
> > Thanks and full sails to 2013.
> >
> > Kevin
> >
> >
> > --
> > Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and to have a
> > form. That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all
> trouble.
> >
> > - Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)
> >
>
>
> --
>
>
>

--=20
Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and to have a
form. That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all trouble.

- Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)

--f46d04462d769da25704d242e211
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Thanks for the recommendations. =A0I&#39;m especially glad to be reminded a=
bout crystal. =A0And free to boot. =A0I think I have enough to crash my Mac=
Book now.<div><br></div><div>Happy new year all.</div><div><br></div><div>K=
evin<span></span><br>
<br>On Monday, December 31, 2012, Philip Conway  wrote:<br><blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pad=
ding-left:1ex">I&#39;m a sucker for virtual analog sounds, so I love U-he&#=
39;s Diva. =A0It&#39;s very<br>

processor-hungry but it sounds amazing. =A0U-he&#39;s Zebra also has a Zebr=
ify<br>
mode that turns pitch straight into notes without midi conversion.<br>
<br>
<br>
On Mon, December 31, 2012 1:07 am, Kevin Cheli-Colando wrote:<br>
&gt; Well, after figuring out how to use Live to do some of what I want to<=
br>
&gt; accomplish (thanks m=F6bius too), I&#39;ve realized I can complicate a=
nd expand<br>
&gt; my rig even further.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; So, with that in mind, anyone have any soft synths they find especiall=
y<br>
&gt; fun<br>
&gt; to play via guitar synth? =A0I seem to recall Absynth being a good<br>
&gt; possibility but I thought I&#39;d appeal to the freaky genius living h=
ere to<br>
&gt; get some ideas.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Thanks and full sails to 2013.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Kevin<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; --<br>
&gt; Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and to have =
a<br>
&gt; form. That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all trou=
ble.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; - Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br><br>-- <br>Till now you seriously considered yoursel=
f to be the body and to have a<br>form. That is the primal ignorance which =
is the root cause of all trouble.<br><br>- Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)<br>
<br><br>

--f46d04462d769da25704d242e211--

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Subject: 'live' live looping
From: eib halimski <halimzainal@gmail.com>
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--00151748e058b1385504d24f0dc8
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enjoy :)
http://vimeo.com/42921558

--00151748e058b1385504d24f0dc8
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<div>enjoy :)</div><a href="http://vimeo.com/42921558">http://vimeo.com/42921558</a>

--00151748e058b1385504d24f0dc8--

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Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 12:07:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Jim Bjorklun <jbjorklun@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Infinity Looper + Axe-Fx II looper added to my looper comparison chart
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<$.02>

Per, that is a cool chart. One small thing you may want to change is the Zoom G2 doesn't appear to have any MIDI capability.  There's definitely no MIDI ports, and if you search for 'midi' on the linked page there are no matches...

Also, your chart is missing the Backline Engineering RiffBox!

Teddy, I hope Pigtronix adds the ability to play a recorded loop backwards.  If this was added, I would probably buy it right away!

</$.02>

- Jim


--- On Tue, 1/1/13, teddyjam.com <teddy@teddyjam.com> wrote:

> From: teddyjam.com <teddy@teddyjam.com>
> Subject: Re: Infinity Looper + Axe-Fx II looper added to my looper comparison chart
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Date: Tuesday, January 1, 2013, 2:46 PM
> Thanks Per, very helpful !
> 
> I have an Infinity that I'm setting up with a 34oneII and an
> iphone for click track
> basically trying to recreate my giant RC50 setup in a
> smaller and more versatile package
> 
> looks like Pigtronix will be doing a lot of updating of the
> Infinity over time, adding features, pretty cool, great
> company.
> 
> Teddy
> 
> On Jan 1, 2013, at 10:14 AM, Per Boysen wrote:
> 
> > Hi Friends,
> > 
> > A while back I uploaded to share a chart I made for
> comparing my
> > favorite functions in loopers. Now I just updated my
> chart with two
> > more units: the Infinity Looper by Pigtronix and the
> Fractal Audio
> > Systems Axe-Fx II that actually is a rack mountable
> guitar preamp with
> > effects that include a quite decent looper block at
> preset level (not
> > global looper positioning)
> > 
> > http://looproom.com/looperchart.php
> > 
> > Please remember that this is not a public information
> service or a
> > commercial support aid - it's just my personal sharing
> of what I think
> > is useful knowledge to have at hand. Anyone is free to
> snag the chart
> > data as it is.
> > 
> > Greetings from Sweden
> > 
> > Per Boysen
> > www.perboysen.com
> > http://www.youtube.com/perboysen
> > 
> 
> 

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Dearest Looping family,

I come to you today to share the news of the release of my latest project:
scoring clips of This American Life episodes that were without music,
titled, "Maybe it's better if you hear this in a British accent."

http://danielharris.bandcamp.com/album/maybe-its-better-if-you-hear-this-in-a-british-accent

All the pieces are looped based, recorded onto my rc50 using mostly my 1998
Ibanez Blazer (and sometimes my Raines 7-string Bebop) into my pedal
line-up (ending with the rc50), then mixed in Logic Pro 9. The only
exception is the music for the first song which was done a little
differently: I started with a simple idea on the rc50 playing to one of the
built-in rhythms. I then brought those initial tracks into Logic, made a
beat and bass line in there, and recorded all additional tracks on the rc50
(you know, for continuity's sake/I was visiting my parents and only had the
rc for recording/etc). The other exception is in one other song I use a
Logic synth drone underneath everything else.

Hope y'all enjoy!

love
Dan

--e0cb4efe2e98c7555904d254087d
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>Dearest Looping family, <br><br></div>I come to =
you today to share the news of the release of my latest project: scoring cl=
ips of This American Life episodes that were without music, titled, &quot;M=
aybe it&#39;s better if you hear this in a British accent.&quot;=A0 <br>
<br><a href=3D"http://danielharris.bandcamp.com/album/maybe-its-better-if-y=
ou-hear-this-in-a-british-accent">http://danielharris.bandcamp.com/album/ma=
ybe-its-better-if-you-hear-this-in-a-british-accent</a><br><br></div><div>
All the pieces are looped based, recorded onto my rc50 using mostly my 1998=
 Ibanez Blazer (and sometimes my Raines 7-string Bebop) into my pedal line-=
up (ending with the rc50), then mixed in Logic Pro 9. The only exception is=
 the music for the first song which was done a little differently: I starte=
d with a simple idea on the rc50 playing to one of the built-in rhythms. I =
then brought those initial tracks into Logic, made a beat and bass line in =
there, and recorded all additional tracks on the rc50 (you know, for contin=
uity&#39;s sake/I was visiting my parents and only had the rc for recording=
/etc). The other exception is in one other song I use a Logic synth drone u=
nderneath everything else. <br>
<br></div><div>Hope y&#39;all enjoy!<br><br></div><div>love<br>Dan <br></di=
v></div>

--e0cb4efe2e98c7555904d254087d--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jan  3 02:12:40 2013
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Subject: Re: My unofficial collaboration with This American Life
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 11:12:36 +0900
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Those are very effective backdrops. The thing is, those snippets are =
real teasers. I'm going to have to chase down all of those episodes and =
listen to find out what happened!

On Jan 3, 2013, at 5:24 AM, daniel <daniel@ithinkwethink.org> wrote:

> Dearest Looping family,=20
>=20
> I come to you today to share the news of the release of my latest =
project: scoring clips of This American Life episodes that were without =
music, titled, "Maybe it's better if you hear this in a British accent." =
=20
>=20
> =
http://danielharris.bandcamp.com/album/maybe-its-better-if-you-hear-this-i=
n-a-british-accent
>=20
> All the pieces are looped based, recorded onto my rc50 using mostly my =
1998 Ibanez Blazer (and sometimes my Raines 7-string Bebop) into my =
pedal line-up (ending with the rc50), then mixed in Logic Pro 9. The =
only exception is the music for the first song which was done a little =
differently: I started with a simple idea on the rc50 playing to one of =
the built-in rhythms. I then brought those initial tracks into Logic, =
made a beat and bass line in there, and recorded all additional tracks =
on the rc50 (you know, for continuity's sake/I was visiting my parents =
and only had the rc for recording/etc). The other exception is in one =
other song I use a Logic synth drone underneath everything else.=20
>=20
> Hope y'all enjoy!
>=20
> love
> Dan=20

Ed Durbrow
Saitama, Japan
http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=3Dwatch
http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/




--Apple-Mail=_7226BC93-ED93-44C9-B3F9-A63C3BADFB21
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<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=iso-8859-1"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Those are very effective backdrops. The thing is, those snippets are real teasers. I'm going to have to chase down all of those episodes and listen to find out what happened!<div><br><div><div>On Jan 3, 2013, at 5:24 AM, daniel &lt;<a href="mailto:daniel@ithinkwethink.org">daniel@ithinkwethink.org</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div><div>Dearest Looping family, <br><br></div>I come to you today to share the news of the release of my latest project: scoring clips of This American Life episodes that were without music, titled, "Maybe it's better if you hear this in a British accent."&nbsp; <br>
<br><a href="http://danielharris.bandcamp.com/album/maybe-its-better-if-you-hear-this-in-a-british-accent">http://danielharris.bandcamp.com/album/maybe-its-better-if-you-hear-this-in-a-british-accent</a><br><br></div><div>
All the pieces are looped based, recorded onto my rc50 using mostly my 1998 Ibanez Blazer (and sometimes my Raines 7-string Bebop) into my pedal line-up (ending with the rc50), then mixed in Logic Pro 9. The only exception is the music for the first song which was done a little differently: I started with a simple idea on the rc50 playing to one of the built-in rhythms. I then brought those initial tracks into Logic, made a beat and bass line in there, and recorded all additional tracks on the rc50 (you know, for continuity's sake/I was visiting my parents and only had the rc for recording/etc). The other exception is in one other song I use a Logic synth drone underneath everything else. <br>
<br></div><div>Hope y'all enjoy!<br><br></div><div>love<br>Dan <br></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br><div apple-content-edited="true">
<div><div>Ed Durbrow</div><div>Saitama, Japan</div><div><a href="http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch">http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch</a></div><div><a href="http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/">http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/</a></div></div><div><br></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">

</div>
<br></div></body></html>
--Apple-Mail=_7226BC93-ED93-44C9-B3F9-A63C3BADFB21--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jan  3 06:20:48 2013
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Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2013 00:20:19 -0500
To: DrTVideo@egroups.com
From: "Emile Tobenfeld (a.k.a Dr. T)" <emile@foryourhead.com>
Subject: "Remembering Marya" video on You Tube
Cc: eyecandy@egroups.com, boss-improv@topica.com, iotacenter@egroups.com,
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Hi folks,

I've posted another video on You Tube at http://youtu.be/563TK6ks7tA 
-- please excuse cross postings --- many of you are on more than one 
of my lists.

"Remembering Marya" is a tribute to my late wife (and companion of 23 
1/2 years) Marya Wolfman. I think of it as a visual celebration of a 
life well-lived, but all too finite.

The piece is an  animated  collage of still images of Marya. I took 
most of the images taken since I met Marya. Marya's brother Steve 
provided most of the archival images, and there are some additional 
contribution from friends and other relatives. The soundtrack is 
taken from performances at a remembrance ceremony held for Marya on 
September 23, 2012. Deepest thanks to the friends and relatives who 
organized and participated in the event.

This piece is obviously quite different from any of the other work on 
my You Tube site. It presented unique challenges, both emotionally 
and aesthetically. I hope this piece brings back good memories for 
those who knew Marya, and provides a sense of her spirit for those 
who did not.

BTW Some of my photography can be viewed at 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/22231918@N06/collections/72157603627170351/
-- 
" Practice makes perfect, imperfect is better."  -- Paul Bley

		Emile Tobenfeld, Ph. D.
Video Producer			Image Processing Specialist
Video for your HEAD!			Boris FX
http://www.foryourhead.com		http://www.borisfx.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jan  3 07:48:22 2013
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Subject: Re: "Remembering Marya" video on You Tube
From: "kay'lon rushing" <k3zz21@gmail.com>
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--bcaec51968c947e80b04d25d9619
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I'm so sorry :(... Hopefully she's in a better place.

On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 9:20 PM, Emile Tobenfeld (a.k.a Dr. T) <
emile@foryourhead.com> wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> I've posted another video on You Tube at http://youtu.be/563TK6ks7tA --
> please excuse cross postings --- many of you are on more than one of my
> lists.
>
> "Remembering Marya" is a tribute to my late wife (and companion of 23 1/2
> years) Marya Wolfman. I think of it as a visual celebration of a life
> well-lived, but all too finite.
>
> The piece is an  animated  collage of still images of Marya. I took most
> of the images taken since I met Marya. Marya's brother Steve provided most
> of the archival images, and there are some additional contribution from
> friends and other relatives. The soundtrack is taken from performances at a
> remembrance ceremony held for Marya on September 23, 2012. Deepest thanks
> to the friends and relatives who organized and participated in the event.
>
> This piece is obviously quite different from any of the other work on my
> You Tube site. It presented unique challenges, both emotionally and
> aesthetically. I hope this piece brings back good memories for those who
> knew Marya, and provides a sense of her spirit for those who did not.
>
> BTW Some of my photography can be viewed at http://www.flickr.com/photos/*
> *22231918@N06/collections/**72157603627170351/<http://www.flickr.com/photos/22231918@N06/collections/72157603627170351/>
> --
> " Practice makes perfect, imperfect is better."  -- Paul Bley
>
>                 Emile Tobenfeld, Ph. D.
> Video Producer                  Image Processing Specialist
> Video for your HEAD!                    Boris FX
> http://www.foryourhead.com              http://www.borisfx.com
>
>


-- 
http://www.facebook.com/pages/K3Z/311236368904238

My Music: - http://www.youtube.com/user/gumdrops27
                 - www.soundcloud.com/k3z
My Photography: http://www.flickr.com/photos/k3z/

--bcaec51968c947e80b04d25d9619
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I&#39;m so sorry :(... Hopefully she&#39;s in a better place.<br><br><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 9:20 PM, Emile Tobenfeld (a.k.a=
 Dr. T) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:emile@foryourhead.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank">emile@foryourhead.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi folks,<br>
<br>
I&#39;ve posted another video on You Tube at <a href=3D"http://youtu.be/563=
TK6ks7tA" target=3D"_blank">http://youtu.be/563TK6ks7tA</a> -- please excus=
e cross postings --- many of you are on more than one of my lists.<br>
<br>
&quot;Remembering Marya&quot; is a tribute to my late wife (and companion o=
f 23 1/2 years) Marya Wolfman. I think of it as a visual celebration of a l=
ife well-lived, but all too finite.<br>
<br>
The piece is an =A0animated =A0collage of still images of Marya. I took mos=
t of the images taken since I met Marya. Marya&#39;s brother Steve provided=
 most of the archival images, and there are some additional contribution fr=
om friends and other relatives. The soundtrack is taken from performances a=
t a remembrance ceremony held for Marya on September 23, 2012. Deepest than=
ks to the friends and relatives who organized and participated in the event=
.<br>

<br>
This piece is obviously quite different from any of the other work on my Yo=
u Tube site. It presented unique challenges, both emotionally and aesthetic=
ally. I hope this piece brings back good memories for those who knew Marya,=
 and provides a sense of her spirit for those who did not.<br>

<br>
BTW Some of my photography can be viewed at <a href=3D"http://www.flickr.co=
m/photos/22231918@N06/collections/72157603627170351/" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://www.flickr.com/photos/<u></u>22231918@N06/collections/<u></u>7215760362=
7170351/</a><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>

-- <br>
&quot; Practice makes perfect, imperfect is better.&quot; =A0-- Paul Bley<b=
r>
<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Emile Tobenfeld, Ph. D.<br>
Video Producer =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Image Processing Speciali=
st<br>
Video for your HEAD! =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Boris FX<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.foryourhead.com" target=3D"_blank">http://www.foryour=
head.com</a> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<a href=3D"http://www.borisfx.com" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.borisfx.com</a><br>
<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><a href=
=3D"http://www.facebook.com/pages/K3Z/311236368904238" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tp://www.facebook.com/pages/K3Z/311236368904238</a><br><br>My Music: - <a h=
ref=3D"http://www.youtube.com/user/gumdrops27" target=3D"_blank">http://www=
.youtube.com/user/gumdrops27</a><br>
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0 - <a href=3D"http://www.soun=
dcloud.com/k3z" target=3D"_blank">www.soundcloud.com/k3z</a><br>My Photogra=
phy: <a href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/photos/k3z/" target=3D"_blank">http:/=
/www.flickr.com/photos/k3z/</a><br>
<br><br>

--bcaec51968c947e80b04d25d9619--

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Subject: Re: "Remembering Marya" video on You Tube
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Made me tear a little bit

On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 11:48 PM, kay'lon rushing <k3zz21@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm so sorry :(... Hopefully she's in a better place.
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 9:20 PM, Emile Tobenfeld (a.k.a Dr. T) <
> emile@foryourhead.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> I've posted another video on You Tube at http://youtu.be/563TK6ks7tA --
>> please excuse cross postings --- many of you are on more than one of my
>> lists.
>>
>> "Remembering Marya" is a tribute to my late wife (and companion of 23 1/2
>> years) Marya Wolfman. I think of it as a visual celebration of a life
>> well-lived, but all too finite.
>>
>> The piece is an  animated  collage of still images of Marya. I took most
>> of the images taken since I met Marya. Marya's brother Steve provided most
>> of the archival images, and there are some additional contribution from
>> friends and other relatives. The soundtrack is taken from performances at a
>> remembrance ceremony held for Marya on September 23, 2012. Deepest thanks
>> to the friends and relatives who organized and participated in the event.
>>
>> This piece is obviously quite different from any of the other work on my
>> You Tube site. It presented unique challenges, both emotionally and
>> aesthetically. I hope this piece brings back good memories for those who
>> knew Marya, and provides a sense of her spirit for those who did not.
>>
>> BTW Some of my photography can be viewed at http://www.flickr.com/photos/
>> **22231918@N06/collections/**72157603627170351/<http://www.flickr.com/photos/22231918@N06/collections/72157603627170351/>
>> --
>> " Practice makes perfect, imperfect is better."  -- Paul Bley
>>
>>                 Emile Tobenfeld, Ph. D.
>> Video Producer                  Image Processing Specialist
>> Video for your HEAD!                    Boris FX
>> http://www.foryourhead.com              http://www.borisfx.com
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> http://www.facebook.com/pages/K3Z/311236368904238
>
> My Music: - http://www.youtube.com/user/gumdrops27
>                  - www.soundcloud.com/k3z
> My Photography: http://www.flickr.com/photos/k3z/
>
>
>


-- 
http://www.facebook.com/pages/K3Z/311236368904238

My Music: - http://www.youtube.com/user/gumdrops27
                 - www.soundcloud.com/k3z
My Photography: http://www.flickr.com/photos/k3z/

--f46d0402df8878d3c504d25d9ccb
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Made me tear a little bit<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 2, =
2013 at 11:48 PM, kay&#39;lon rushing <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:k3zz21@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">k3zz21@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrot=
e:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I&#39;m so sorry :(... Hopefully she&#39;s i=
n a better place.<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote">
On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 9:20 PM, Emile Tobenfeld (a.k.a Dr. T) <span dir=3D"=
ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:emile@foryourhead.com" target=3D"_blank">emile@f=
oryourhead.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi folks,<br>
<br>
I&#39;ve posted another video on You Tube at <a href=3D"http://youtu.be/563=
TK6ks7tA" target=3D"_blank">http://youtu.be/563TK6ks7tA</a> -- please excus=
e cross postings --- many of you are on more than one of my lists.<br>
<br>
&quot;Remembering Marya&quot; is a tribute to my late wife (and companion o=
f 23 1/2 years) Marya Wolfman. I think of it as a visual celebration of a l=
ife well-lived, but all too finite.<br>
<br>
The piece is an =A0animated =A0collage of still images of Marya. I took mos=
t of the images taken since I met Marya. Marya&#39;s brother Steve provided=
 most of the archival images, and there are some additional contribution fr=
om friends and other relatives. The soundtrack is taken from performances a=
t a remembrance ceremony held for Marya on September 23, 2012. Deepest than=
ks to the friends and relatives who organized and participated in the event=
.<br>


<br>
This piece is obviously quite different from any of the other work on my Yo=
u Tube site. It presented unique challenges, both emotionally and aesthetic=
ally. I hope this piece brings back good memories for those who knew Marya,=
 and provides a sense of her spirit for those who did not.<br>


<br>
BTW Some of my photography can be viewed at <a href=3D"http://www.flickr.co=
m/photos/22231918@N06/collections/72157603627170351/" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://www.flickr.com/photos/<u></u>22231918@N06/collections/<u></u>7215760362=
7170351/</a><span><font color=3D"#888888"><br>


-- <br>
&quot; Practice makes perfect, imperfect is better.&quot; =A0-- Paul Bley<b=
r>
<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Emile Tobenfeld, Ph. D.<br>
Video Producer =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Image Processing Speciali=
st<br>
Video for your HEAD! =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Boris FX<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.foryourhead.com" target=3D"_blank">http://www.foryour=
head.com</a> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<a href=3D"http://www.borisfx.com" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.borisfx.com</a><br>
<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br></div></div><spa=
n class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">-- <br><a href=3D"http://www.fac=
ebook.com/pages/K3Z/311236368904238" target=3D"_blank">http://www.facebook.=
com/pages/K3Z/311236368904238</a><br>
<br>My Music: - <a href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/user/gumdrops27" target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.youtube.com/user/gumdrops27</a><br>
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0 - <a href=3D"http://www.soun=
dcloud.com/k3z" target=3D"_blank">www.soundcloud.com/k3z</a><br>My Photogra=
phy: <a href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/photos/k3z/" target=3D"_blank">http:/=
/www.flickr.com/photos/k3z/</a><br>

<br><br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><a href=
=3D"http://www.facebook.com/pages/K3Z/311236368904238" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tp://www.facebook.com/pages/K3Z/311236368904238</a><br><br>My Music: - <a h=
ref=3D"http://www.youtube.com/user/gumdrops27" target=3D"_blank">http://www=
.youtube.com/user/gumdrops27</a><br>
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0 - <a href=3D"http://www.soun=
dcloud.com/k3z" target=3D"_blank">www.soundcloud.com/k3z</a><br>My Photogra=
phy: <a href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/photos/k3z/" target=3D"_blank">http:/=
/www.flickr.com/photos/k3z/</a><br>
<br><br>

--f46d0402df8878d3c504d25d9ccb--

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From: Ben <benoitruelle@yahoo.fr>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 13:56:18 +0100
Subject: Re: Soft synths for guitar
In-Reply-To: <CAATUM6cnu_4+h1kvtUxbhfwOVnmhE7dA+02a4_ZSMrwmAEcRkA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <52210.77.99.233.16.1356953317.squirrel@webmail.bris.ac.uk> <CAATUM6cnu_4+h1kvtUxbhfwOVnmhE7dA+02a4_ZSMrwmAEcRkA@mail.gmail.com>
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Hello,

No really an answer to the original question but here's something some
guitarists of this community may find usefull:
It's a MIDI Guitar VST/AudioUnit/Standalone that can be used with most
digital audio workstations (DAW's) under Windows or MacOSX, and thus=20
can be used for true polyphonic guitar synthesizers or for recording=20
notes or tablature (auto-tabbing).

http://jamorigin.com/midi-guitar/vst.html

It's currently in beta but comments are quite good. Somes says it=20
tracks well and faster than the roland stuff.

Happy new year

Ben


--------------------------------------------------
Kevin Cheli-Colando <billowhead@gmail.com> wrote:
(02/01/2013 00:56)

> Thanks for the recommendations.  I'm especially glad to be reminded about=

> crystal.  And free to boot.  I think I have enough to crash my MacBook no=
w.
>=20
> Happy new year all.
>=20
> Kevin
>=20
> On Monday, December 31, 2012, Philip Conway wrote:
>=20
> > I'm a sucker for virtual analog sounds, so I love U-he's Diva.  It's ve=
ry
> > processor-hungry but it sounds amazing.  U-he's Zebra also has a Zebrif=
y
> > mode that turns pitch straight into notes without midi conversion.
> >
> >
> > On Mon, December 31, 2012 1:07 am, Kevin Cheli-Colando wrote:
> > > Well, after figuring out how to use Live to do some of what I want to=

> > > accomplish (thanks m=C3=B6bius too), I've realized I can complicate a=
nd expand
> > > my rig even further.
> > >
> > > So, with that in mind, anyone have any soft synths they find especial=
ly
> > > fun
> > > to play via guitar synth=3F  I seem to recall Absynth being a good
> > > possibility but I thought I'd appeal to the freaky genius living here=
 to
> > > get some ideas.
> > >
> > > Thanks and full sails to 2013.
> > >
> > > Kevin
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and to have=
 a
> > > form. That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all
> > trouble.
> > >
> > > - Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> >
>=20
> --=20
> Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and to have a
> form. That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all trouble=
.
>=20
> - Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jan  3 12:59:22 2013
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Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2013 13:59:19 +0100
From: "Buzap Buzap" <buzap@gmx.net>
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Subject: Re: Music Notation symbols for loops?
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Hi Sylvain
thanks. This looks basically like numbered loops + text description.
Since it has a reference to "javanese": I'm actually using elements of javanese gamelan notation for shorthand music notation - works very well.
> http://javanese.imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/4/47/IMSLP00899-TerryRiley-InC.pdf

best
Buzap

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Subject: Re: My unofficial collaboration with This American Life
From: daniel <daniel@ithinkwethink.org>
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Thanks! I included the episode title and number in the info for each song,
so it shouldn't be too tough getting a hold of them.


On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 9:12 PM, Ed Durbrow <edurbrow@sea.plala.or.jp> wrote:

> Those are very effective backdrops. The thing is, those snippets are real
> teasers. I'm going to have to chase down all of those episodes and listen
> to find out what happened!
>
> On Jan 3, 2013, at 5:24 AM, daniel <daniel@ithinkwethink.org> wrote:
>
> Dearest Looping family,
>
> I come to you today to share the news of the release of my latest project:
> scoring clips of This American Life episodes that were without music,
> titled, "Maybe it's better if you hear this in a British accent."
>
>
> http://danielharris.bandcamp.com/album/maybe-its-better-if-you-hear-this-in-a-british-accent
>
> All the pieces are looped based, recorded onto my rc50 using mostly my
> 1998 Ibanez Blazer (and sometimes my Raines 7-string Bebop) into my pedal
> line-up (ending with the rc50), then mixed in Logic Pro 9. The only
> exception is the music for the first song which was done a little
> differently: I started with a simple idea on the rc50 playing to one of the
> built-in rhythms. I then brought those initial tracks into Logic, made a
> beat and bass line in there, and recorded all additional tracks on the rc50
> (you know, for continuity's sake/I was visiting my parents and only had the
> rc for recording/etc). The other exception is in one other song I use a
> Logic synth drone underneath everything else.
>
> Hope y'all enjoy!
>
> love
> Dan
>
>
> Ed Durbrow
> Saitama, Japan
> http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch
> http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
>
>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Thanks! I included the episode title and number in the inf=
o for each song, so it shouldn&#39;t be too tough getting a hold of them. <=
br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On W=
ed, Jan 2, 2013 at 9:12 PM, Ed Durbrow <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:edurbrow@sea.plala.or.jp" target=3D"_blank">edurbrow@sea.plala.or.jp</a=
>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">Those ar=
e very effective backdrops. The thing is, those snippets are real teasers. =
I&#39;m going to have to chase down all of those episodes and listen to fin=
d out what happened!<div>
<div><div class=3D"h5"><br><div><div>On Jan 3, 2013, at 5:24 AM, daniel &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:daniel@ithinkwethink.org" target=3D"_blank">daniel@ithin=
kwethink.org</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"=
ltr"><div>
<div>Dearest Looping family, <br><br></div>I come to you today to share the=
 news of the release of my latest project: scoring clips of This American L=
ife episodes that were without music, titled, &quot;Maybe it&#39;s better i=
f you hear this in a British accent.&quot;=A0 <br>

<br><a href=3D"http://danielharris.bandcamp.com/album/maybe-its-better-if-y=
ou-hear-this-in-a-british-accent" target=3D"_blank">http://danielharris.ban=
dcamp.com/album/maybe-its-better-if-you-hear-this-in-a-british-accent</a><b=
r>
<br></div><div>
All the pieces are looped based, recorded onto my rc50 using mostly my 1998=
 Ibanez Blazer (and sometimes my Raines 7-string Bebop) into my pedal line-=
up (ending with the rc50), then mixed in Logic Pro 9. The only exception is=
 the music for the first song which was done a little differently: I starte=
d with a simple idea on the rc50 playing to one of the built-in rhythms. I =
then brought those initial tracks into Logic, made a beat and bass line in =
there, and recorded all additional tracks on the rc50 (you know, for contin=
uity&#39;s sake/I was visiting my parents and only had the rc for recording=
/etc). The other exception is in one other song I use a Logic synth drone u=
nderneath everything else. <br>

<br></div><div>Hope y&#39;all enjoy!<br><br></div><div>love<br>Dan <br></di=
v></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#8=
88888"><div>
<div><div>Ed Durbrow</div><div>Saitama, Japan</div><div><a href=3D"http://w=
ww.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=3Dwatch" target=3D"_blank">http://www.=
youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=3Dwatch</a></div><div><a href=3D"http://w=
ww9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/" target=3D"_blank">http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbr=
ow/</a></div>
</div><div><br></div><br>

</div>
<br></font></span></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

--e89a8fb20276a28eee04d263658c--

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	<4F1F07FB-C7C4-4A21-AC07-E2F472796E1C@sea.plala.or.jp>
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Subject: Re: My unofficial collaboration with This American Life
From: daniel <daniel@ithinkwethink.org>
To: loopers-delight <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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--e89a8fb201729a6c8904d263666e
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*Lemme know if you have trouble and I can always send you the episodes


On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 9:44 AM, daniel <daniel@ithinkwethink.org> wrote:

> Thanks! I included the episode title and number in the info for each song,
> so it shouldn't be too tough getting a hold of them.
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 9:12 PM, Ed Durbrow <edurbrow@sea.plala.or.jp>wrote:
>
>> Those are very effective backdrops. The thing is, those snippets are real
>> teasers. I'm going to have to chase down all of those episodes and listen
>> to find out what happened!
>>
>> On Jan 3, 2013, at 5:24 AM, daniel <daniel@ithinkwethink.org> wrote:
>>
>> Dearest Looping family,
>>
>> I come to you today to share the news of the release of my latest
>> project: scoring clips of This American Life episodes that were without
>> music, titled, "Maybe it's better if you hear this in a British accent."
>>
>>
>> http://danielharris.bandcamp.com/album/maybe-its-better-if-you-hear-this-in-a-british-accent
>>
>> All the pieces are looped based, recorded onto my rc50 using mostly my
>> 1998 Ibanez Blazer (and sometimes my Raines 7-string Bebop) into my pedal
>> line-up (ending with the rc50), then mixed in Logic Pro 9. The only
>> exception is the music for the first song which was done a little
>> differently: I started with a simple idea on the rc50 playing to one of the
>> built-in rhythms. I then brought those initial tracks into Logic, made a
>> beat and bass line in there, and recorded all additional tracks on the rc50
>> (you know, for continuity's sake/I was visiting my parents and only had the
>> rc for recording/etc). The other exception is in one other song I use a
>> Logic synth drone underneath everything else.
>>
>> Hope y'all enjoy!
>>
>> love
>> Dan
>>
>>
>> Ed Durbrow
>> Saitama, Japan
>> http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch
>> http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

--e89a8fb201729a6c8904d263666e
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
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<div dir=3D"ltr">*Lemme know if you have trouble and I can always send you =
the episodes<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmai=
l_quote">On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 9:44 AM, daniel <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:daniel@ithinkwethink.org" target=3D"_blank">daniel@ithinkwethi=
nk.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Thanks! I included the epis=
ode title and number in the info for each song, so it shouldn&#39;t be too =
tough getting a hold of them. <br>
</div><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><b=
r><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 9:12 PM, Ed Durbrow=
 <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:edurbrow@sea.plala.or.jp" target=
=3D"_blank">edurbrow@sea.plala.or.jp</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">Those ar=
e very effective backdrops. The thing is, those snippets are real teasers. =
I&#39;m going to have to chase down all of those episodes and listen to fin=
d out what happened!<div>

<div><div><br><div><div>On Jan 3, 2013, at 5:24 AM, daniel &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:daniel@ithinkwethink.org" target=3D"_blank">daniel@ithinkwethink.org<=
/a>&gt; wrote:</div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>
<div>Dearest Looping family, <br><br></div>I come to you today to share the=
 news of the release of my latest project: scoring clips of This American L=
ife episodes that were without music, titled, &quot;Maybe it&#39;s better i=
f you hear this in a British accent.&quot;=A0 <br>


<br><a href=3D"http://danielharris.bandcamp.com/album/maybe-its-better-if-y=
ou-hear-this-in-a-british-accent" target=3D"_blank">http://danielharris.ban=
dcamp.com/album/maybe-its-better-if-you-hear-this-in-a-british-accent</a><b=
r>

<br></div><div>
All the pieces are looped based, recorded onto my rc50 using mostly my 1998=
 Ibanez Blazer (and sometimes my Raines 7-string Bebop) into my pedal line-=
up (ending with the rc50), then mixed in Logic Pro 9. The only exception is=
 the music for the first song which was done a little differently: I starte=
d with a simple idea on the rc50 playing to one of the built-in rhythms. I =
then brought those initial tracks into Logic, made a beat and bass line in =
there, and recorded all additional tracks on the rc50 (you know, for contin=
uity&#39;s sake/I was visiting my parents and only had the rc for recording=
/etc). The other exception is in one other song I use a Logic synth drone u=
nderneath everything else. <br>


<br></div><div>Hope y&#39;all enjoy!<br><br></div><div>love<br>Dan <br></di=
v></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div><span><font color=3D"#888888"><div>
<div><div>Ed Durbrow</div><div>Saitama, Japan</div><div><a href=3D"http://w=
ww.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=3Dwatch" target=3D"_blank">http://www.=
youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=3Dwatch</a></div><div><a href=3D"http://w=
ww9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/" target=3D"_blank">http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbr=
ow/</a></div>

</div><div><br></div><br>

</div>
<br></font></span></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

--e89a8fb201729a6c8904d263666e--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jan  3 15:33:09 2013
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Subject: Re: "Remembering Marya" video on You Tube
From: Ted Killian <tedkillian@charter.net>
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Oh my goodness Emile!=20

I am saddened by your news!

The video you shared does indeed convey a sense of Marya spirit.

Please accept my sympathy and condolences on the loss of your gentle =
wife, partner and friend.=20

I did not know her...nor of your loss.

Most sincerely,

Ted Killian

On Jan 2, 2013, at 9:20 PM, Emile Tobenfeld (a.k.a Dr. T) wrote:

> Hi folks,
>=20
> I've posted another video on You Tube at http://youtu.be/563TK6ks7tA =
-- please excuse cross postings --- many of you are on more than one of =
my lists.
>=20
> "Remembering Marya" is a tribute to my late wife (and companion of 23 =
1/2 years) Marya Wolfman. I think of it as a visual celebration of a =
life well-lived, but all too finite.
>=20
> The piece is an  animated  collage of still images of Marya. I took =
most of the images taken since I met Marya. Marya's brother Steve =
provided most of the archival images, and there are some additional =
contribution from friends and other relatives. The soundtrack is taken =
from performances at a remembrance ceremony held for Marya on September =
23, 2012. Deepest thanks to the friends and relatives who organized and =
participated in the event.
>=20
> This piece is obviously quite different from any of the other work on =
my You Tube site. It presented unique challenges, both emotionally and =
aesthetically. I hope this piece brings back good memories for those who =
knew Marya, and provides a sense of her spirit for those who did not.
>=20
> BTW Some of my photography can be viewed at =
http://www.flickr.com/photos/22231918@N06/collections/72157603627170351/
> --=20
> " Practice makes perfect, imperfect is better."  -- Paul Bley
>=20
> 		Emile Tobenfeld, Ph. D.
> Video Producer			Image Processing Specialist
> Video for your HEAD!			Boris FX
> http://www.foryourhead.com		http://www.borisfx.com
>=20

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jan  3 18:43:22 2013
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Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2013 13:43:17 -0500
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Subject: Listen to Galactic Travels
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GALACTIC TRAVELS ON WDIY:                   http://galactictravels.info
=======================================================================
Tonight at 11 pm EST/GMT-5 on Galactic Travels, I'll begin a month-long
Special Focus on Mystified.  The Featured CD at Midnight will be
"Tribute To Forbidden Planet" on Roil Noise Records.  The Special Focus
page is at: http://soundscapes.us/gt/playlists/2013/focus.html#jan

Galactic Travels is an electronic, ambient, and space music show that
airs each Thursday at 11:04 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and
Bethlehem, 93.9 FM in Easton and Phillipsburg, 93.7 FM in Fogelsville
and Trexlertown, on the internet, and in High Definition Radio at 88.1
FM.  Listen at http://wdiy.org on the internet.

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Subject: Re: "Remembering Marya" video on You Tube
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My heart goes out to you Emile.

:(



On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 10:20 PM, Emile Tobenfeld (a.k.a Dr. T) <
emile@foryourhead.com> wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> I've posted another video on You Tube at http://youtu.be/563TK6ks7tA --
> please excuse cross postings --- many of you are on more than one of my
> lists.
>
> "Remembering Marya" is a tribute to my late wife (and companion of 23 1/2
> years) Marya Wolfman. I think of it as a visual celebration of a life
> well-lived, but all too finite.
>
> The piece is an  animated  collage of still images of Marya. I took most
> of the images taken since I met Marya. Marya's brother Steve provided most
> of the archival images, and there are some additional contribution from
> friends and other relatives. The soundtrack is taken from performances at a
> remembrance ceremony held for Marya on September 23, 2012. Deepest thanks
> to the friends and relatives who organized and participated in the event.
>
> This piece is obviously quite different from any of the other work on my
> You Tube site. It presented unique challenges, both emotionally and
> aesthetically. I hope this piece brings back good memories for those who
> knew Marya, and provides a sense of her spirit for those who did not.
>
> BTW Some of my photography can be viewed at http://www.flickr.com/photos/*
> *22231918@N06/collections/**72157603627170351/<http://www.flickr.com/photos/22231918@N06/collections/72157603627170351/>
> --
> " Practice makes perfect, imperfect is better."  -- Paul Bley
>
>                 Emile Tobenfeld, Ph. D.
> Video Producer                  Image Processing Specialist
> Video for your HEAD!                    Boris FX
> http://www.foryourhead.com              http://www.borisfx.com
>
>

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<br>My heart goes out to you Emile.<br><br>:(<br><br><br><br><div class=3D"=
gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 10:20 PM, Emile Tobenfeld (a.k.a Dr. T)=
 <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:emile@foryourhead.com" target=3D"_=
blank">emile@foryourhead.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi folks,<br>
<br>
I&#39;ve posted another video on You Tube at <a href=3D"http://youtu.be/563=
TK6ks7tA" target=3D"_blank">http://youtu.be/563TK6ks7tA</a> -- please excus=
e cross postings --- many of you are on more than one of my lists.<br>
<br>
&quot;Remembering Marya&quot; is a tribute to my late wife (and companion o=
f 23 1/2 years) Marya Wolfman. I think of it as a visual celebration of a l=
ife well-lived, but all too finite.<br>
<br>
The piece is an =C2=A0animated =C2=A0collage of still images of Marya. I to=
ok most of the images taken since I met Marya. Marya&#39;s brother Steve pr=
ovided most of the archival images, and there are some additional contribut=
ion from friends and other relatives. The soundtrack is taken from performa=
nces at a remembrance ceremony held for Marya on September 23, 2012. Deepes=
t thanks to the friends and relatives who organized and participated in the=
 event.<br>


<br>
This piece is obviously quite different from any of the other work on my Yo=
u Tube site. It presented unique challenges, both emotionally and aesthetic=
ally. I hope this piece brings back good memories for those who knew Marya,=
 and provides a sense of her spirit for those who did not.<br>


<br>
BTW Some of my photography can be viewed at <a href=3D"http://www.flickr.co=
m/photos/22231918@N06/collections/72157603627170351/" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://www.flickr.com/photos/<u></u>22231918@N06/collections/<u></u>7215760362=
7170351/</a><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>


-- <br>
&quot; Practice makes perfect, imperfect is better.&quot; =C2=A0-- Paul Ble=
y<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Emile Tobenfeld, Ph=
. D.<br>
Video Producer =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0Image Processing Specialist<br>
Video for your HEAD! =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Boris FX<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.foryourhead.com" target=3D"_blank">http://www.foryour=
head.com</a> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"htt=
p://www.borisfx.com" target=3D"_blank">http://www.borisfx.com</a><br>
<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br>

--e0cb4efa6dfc54103d04d268108c--

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Subject: Re: "Remembering Marya" video on You Tube
From: daniel <daniel@ithinkwethink.org>
To: loopers-delight <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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--e0cb4efe2ea65a36bc04d268293b
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Sorry to hear, Emile.


On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 3:17 PM, Steven Clements <sdclements@gmail.com>wrote:

>
> My heart goes out to you Emile.
>
> :(
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 10:20 PM, Emile Tobenfeld (a.k.a Dr. T) <
> emile@foryourhead.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> I've posted another video on You Tube at http://youtu.be/563TK6ks7tA --
>> please excuse cross postings --- many of you are on more than one of my
>> lists.
>>
>> "Remembering Marya" is a tribute to my late wife (and companion of 23 1/2
>> years) Marya Wolfman. I think of it as a visual celebration of a life
>> well-lived, but all too finite.
>>
>> The piece is an  animated  collage of still images of Marya. I took most
>> of the images taken since I met Marya. Marya's brother Steve provided most
>> of the archival images, and there are some additional contribution from
>> friends and other relatives. The soundtrack is taken from performances at a
>> remembrance ceremony held for Marya on September 23, 2012. Deepest thanks
>> to the friends and relatives who organized and participated in the event.
>>
>> This piece is obviously quite different from any of the other work on my
>> You Tube site. It presented unique challenges, both emotionally and
>> aesthetically. I hope this piece brings back good memories for those who
>> knew Marya, and provides a sense of her spirit for those who did not.
>>
>> BTW Some of my photography can be viewed at http://www.flickr.com/photos/
>> **22231918@N06/collections/**72157603627170351/<http://www.flickr.com/photos/22231918@N06/collections/72157603627170351/>
>> --
>> " Practice makes perfect, imperfect is better."  -- Paul Bley
>>
>>                 Emile Tobenfeld, Ph. D.
>> Video Producer                  Image Processing Specialist
>> Video for your HEAD!                    Boris FX
>> http://www.foryourhead.com              http://www.borisfx.com
>>
>>
>

--e0cb4efe2ea65a36bc04d268293b
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Sorry to hear, Emile. <br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"=
><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 3:17 PM, Steven =
Clements <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sdclements@gmail.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank">sdclements@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>My heart goes out to you Emile.<br><br>:=
(<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br><br><br><br><div class=3D"gmai=
l_quote">
On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 10:20 PM, Emile Tobenfeld (a.k.a Dr. T) <span dir=3D=
"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:emile@foryourhead.com" target=3D"_blank">emile@=
foryourhead.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi folks,<br>
<br>
I&#39;ve posted another video on You Tube at <a href=3D"http://youtu.be/563=
TK6ks7tA" target=3D"_blank">http://youtu.be/563TK6ks7tA</a> -- please excus=
e cross postings --- many of you are on more than one of my lists.<br>
<br>
&quot;Remembering Marya&quot; is a tribute to my late wife (and companion o=
f 23 1/2 years) Marya Wolfman. I think of it as a visual celebration of a l=
ife well-lived, but all too finite.<br>
<br>
The piece is an =A0animated =A0collage of still images of Marya. I took mos=
t of the images taken since I met Marya. Marya&#39;s brother Steve provided=
 most of the archival images, and there are some additional contribution fr=
om friends and other relatives. The soundtrack is taken from performances a=
t a remembrance ceremony held for Marya on September 23, 2012. Deepest than=
ks to the friends and relatives who organized and participated in the event=
.<br>



<br>
This piece is obviously quite different from any of the other work on my Yo=
u Tube site. It presented unique challenges, both emotionally and aesthetic=
ally. I hope this piece brings back good memories for those who knew Marya,=
 and provides a sense of her spirit for those who did not.<br>



<br>
BTW Some of my photography can be viewed at <a href=3D"http://www.flickr.co=
m/photos/22231918@N06/collections/72157603627170351/" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://www.flickr.com/photos/<u></u>22231918@N06/collections/<u></u>7215760362=
7170351/</a><span><font color=3D"#888888"><br>



-- <br>
&quot; Practice makes perfect, imperfect is better.&quot; =A0-- Paul Bley<b=
r>
<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Emile Tobenfeld, Ph. D.<br>
Video Producer =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Image Processing Speciali=
st<br>
Video for your HEAD! =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Boris FX<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.foryourhead.com" target=3D"_blank">http://www.foryour=
head.com</a> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<a href=3D"http://www.borisfx.com" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.borisfx.com</a><br>
<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

--e0cb4efe2ea65a36bc04d268293b--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jan  3 20:40:31 2013
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From: Jean-Paul De Roover <j.de.roover@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 15:40:09 -0500
Message-ID: <CAEEJk4oGGn8FHEZ8zRYNFnumhHJXMRu7n5U5-o3-qy-1a78+1w@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: RC-50 / RC-300: replacing guide tracks
To: loopers-delight <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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--f46d04016cd5a0fbab04d2685f77
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hey Gang,

Is it possible to replace the guide/rhythm tracks with another file? I
don't need to be able to adjust the pitch on it, so replacing it with a wav
file at, say, 120 BPM would be just fine.

I'm putting together a live band (3-piece) for some shows and hopefully
eventual tour, and I'm trying to come up with some better solutions for
click tracks for the drummer.

Thanks!

-- 
Jean-Paul De Roover
www.jeanpaulderoover.com
(807) 251-3376

--f46d04016cd5a0fbab04d2685f77
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hey Gang,<div><br></div><div>Is it possible to replace the=
 guide/rhythm tracks with another file? I don&#39;t need to be able to adju=
st the pitch on it, so replacing it with a wav file at, say, 120 BPM would =
be just fine.=A0</div>

<div><br></div><div>I&#39;m putting together a live band (3-piece) for some=
 shows and hopefully eventual tour, and I&#39;m trying to come up with some=
 better solutions for click tracks for the drummer.=A0</div><div><br></div>

<div>Thanks!<br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br>Jean-Paul De Roover<br>=
<a href=3D"http://www.jeanpaulderoover.com" target=3D"_blank">www.jeanpauld=
eroover.com</a><br>(807) 251-3376
</div></div>

--f46d04016cd5a0fbab04d2685f77--

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From: "Teddyjam.com" <teddy@teddyjam.com>
Subject: Re: RC-50 / RC-300: replacing guide tracks
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 15:55:03 -0500
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I use the rc50 that way. You can load in a click of your choice as a wave bu=
t it takes up a phrase and you lose some flexibility. I put the machine in 2=
/4 time which gives you a choice of stick click which is not available is ot=
her time sigs. You can still do odd times if you do the math.

By the way I saw your balcony show, great work man!!!

Teddy Kumpel
http://teddyjam.com

On Jan 3, 2013, at 3:40 PM, Jean-Paul De Roover <j.de.roover@gmail.com> wrot=
e:

> Hey Gang,
>=20
> Is it possible to replace the guide/rhythm tracks with another file? I don=
't need to be able to adjust the pitch on it, so replacing it with a wav fil=
e at, say, 120 BPM would be just fine.=20
>=20
> I'm putting together a live band (3-piece) for some shows and hopefully ev=
entual tour, and I'm trying to come up with some better solutions for click t=
racks for the drummer.=20
>=20
> Thanks!
>=20
> --=20
> Jean-Paul De Roover
> www.jeanpaulderoover.com
> (807) 251-3376

--Apple-Mail-F8CB3F2B-21D7-4700-8618-4D0923AFCD21
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	charset=utf-8
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<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>I use the rc50 that way. You can load in a click of your choice as a wave but it takes up a phrase and you lose some flexibility. I put the machine in 2/4 time which gives you a choice of stick click which is not available is other time sigs. You can still do odd times if you do the math.</div><div><br></div><div>By the way I saw your balcony show, great work man!!!<br><br>Teddy Kumpel<div><a href="http://teddyjam.com">http://teddyjam.com</a></div></div><div><br>On Jan 3, 2013, at 3:40 PM, Jean-Paul De Roover &lt;<a href="mailto:j.de.roover@gmail.com">j.de.roover@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr">Hey Gang,<div><br></div><div>Is it possible to replace the guide/rhythm tracks with another file? I don't need to be able to adjust the pitch on it, so replacing it with a wav file at, say, 120 BPM would be just fine.&nbsp;</div>

<div><br></div><div>I'm putting together a live band (3-piece) for some shows and hopefully eventual tour, and I'm trying to come up with some better solutions for click tracks for the drummer.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div>

<div>Thanks!<br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>Jean-Paul De Roover<br><a href="http://www.jeanpaulderoover.com" target="_blank">www.jeanpaulderoover.com</a><br>(807) 251-3376
</div></div>
</div></blockquote></body></html>
--Apple-Mail-F8CB3F2B-21D7-4700-8618-4D0923AFCD21--

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From: Jean-Paul De Roover <j.de.roover@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 19:48:04 -0500
Message-ID: <CAEEJk4pPY7jN3bmxLLK0Js-FKFg8y0m53XVL6bwYq7m0MMXG-g@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: RC-50 / RC-300: replacing guide tracks
To: loopers-delight <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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Thanks Teddy, I'm glad you liked it!

My concern is; can it be done without taking up a phrase? That way all 3
phrases are clear, and an uploaded wav file is playable by engaging the
tempo track on/off.

Good to know about the 2/4 stick click, thanks!


On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 3:55 PM, Teddyjam.com <teddy@teddyjam.com> wrote:

> I use the rc50 that way. You can load in a click of your choice as a wave
> but it takes up a phrase and you lose some flexibility. I put the machine
> in 2/4 time which gives you a choice of stick click which is not available
> is other time sigs. You can still do odd times if you do the math.
>
> By the way I saw your balcony show, great work man!!!
>
> Teddy Kumpel
> http://teddyjam.com
>
> On Jan 3, 2013, at 3:40 PM, Jean-Paul De Roover <j.de.roover@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hey Gang,
>
> Is it possible to replace the guide/rhythm tracks with another file? I
> don't need to be able to adjust the pitch on it, so replacing it with a wav
> file at, say, 120 BPM would be just fine.
>
> I'm putting together a live band (3-piece) for some shows and hopefully
> eventual tour, and I'm trying to come up with some better solutions for
> click tracks for the drummer.
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Jean-Paul De Roover
> www.jeanpaulderoover.com
> (807) 251-3376
>
>


-- 
Jean-Paul De Roover
www.jeanpaulderoover.com
(807) 251-3376

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Thanks Teddy, I&#39;m glad you liked it!<div><br></div><di=
v>My concern is; can it be done without taking up a phrase? That way all 3 =
phrases are clear, and an uploaded wav file is playable by engaging the tem=
po track on/off.=A0</div>

<div><br></div><div>Good to know about the 2/4 stick click, thanks!</div></=
div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, J=
an 3, 2013 at 3:55 PM, Teddyjam.com <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:teddy@teddyjam.com" target=3D"_blank">teddy@teddyjam.com</a>&gt;</span> wr=
ote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><div>I use the rc50 that w=
ay. You can load in a click of your choice as a wave but it takes up a phra=
se and you lose some flexibility. I put the machine in 2/4 time which gives=
 you a choice of stick click which is not available is other time sigs. You=
 can still do odd times if you do the math.</div>

<div><br></div><div>By the way I saw your balcony show, great work man!!!<b=
r><br>Teddy Kumpel<div><a href=3D"http://teddyjam.com" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tp://teddyjam.com</a></div></div><div><div class=3D"h5"><div><br>On Jan 3, =
2013, at 3:40 PM, Jean-Paul De Roover &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:j.de.roover@gma=
il.com" target=3D"_blank">j.de.roover@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>

<br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr">Hey Gang,<div><br=
></div><div>Is it possible to replace the guide/rhythm tracks with another =
file? I don&#39;t need to be able to adjust the pitch on it, so replacing i=
t with a wav file at, say, 120 BPM would be just fine.=A0</div>



<div><br></div><div>I&#39;m putting together a live band (3-piece) for some=
 shows and hopefully eventual tour, and I&#39;m trying to come up with some=
 better solutions for click tracks for the drummer.=A0</div><div><br></div>



<div>Thanks!<br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br>Jean-Paul De Roover<br>=
<a href=3D"http://www.jeanpaulderoover.com" target=3D"_blank">www.jeanpauld=
eroover.com</a><br><a href=3D"tel:%28807%29%20251-3376" value=3D"+180725133=
76" target=3D"_blank">(807) 251-3376</a>
</div></div>
</div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"al=
l"><div><br></div>-- <br>Jean-Paul De Roover<br><a href=3D"http://www.jeanp=
aulderoover.com" target=3D"_blank">www.jeanpaulderoover.com</a><br>(807) 25=
1-3376
</div>

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From: "Teddyjam.com" <teddy@teddyjam.com>
Subject: Re: RC-50 / RC-300: replacing guide tracks
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 20:54:07 -0500
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No custom click without taking up a phrase... Unless u meet the Japanese peo=
ple who built and convince them to make an alternate chip with a real gosh d=
arn click on it... Believe me, I've asked about 600 times...

Teddy Kumpel
http://teddyjam.com

On Jan 3, 2013, at 7:48 PM, Jean-Paul De Roover <j.de.roover@gmail.com> wrot=
e:

> Thanks Teddy, I'm glad you liked it!
>=20
> My concern is; can it be done without taking up a phrase? That way all 3 p=
hrases are clear, and an uploaded wav file is playable by engaging the tempo=
 track on/off.=20
>=20
> Good to know about the 2/4 stick click, thanks!
>=20
>=20
> On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 3:55 PM, Teddyjam.com <teddy@teddyjam.com> wrote:
>> I use the rc50 that way. You can load in a click of your choice as a wave=
 but it takes up a phrase and you lose some flexibility. I put the machine i=
n 2/4 time which gives you a choice of stick click which is not available is=
 other time sigs. You can still do odd times if you do the math.
>>=20
>> By the way I saw your balcony show, great work man!!!
>>=20
>> Teddy Kumpel
>> http://teddyjam.com
>>=20
>> On Jan 3, 2013, at 3:40 PM, Jean-Paul De Roover <j.de.roover@gmail.com> w=
rote:
>>=20
>>> Hey Gang,
>>>=20
>>> Is it possible to replace the guide/rhythm tracks with another file? I d=
on't need to be able to adjust the pitch on it, so replacing it with a wav f=
ile at, say, 120 BPM would be just fine.=20
>>>=20
>>> I'm putting together a live band (3-piece) for some shows and hopefully e=
ventual tour, and I'm trying to come up with some better solutions for click=
 tracks for the drummer.=20
>>>=20
>>> Thanks!
>>>=20
>>> --=20
>>> Jean-Paul De Roover
>>> www.jeanpaulderoover.com
>>> (807) 251-3376
>=20
>=20
>=20
> --=20
> Jean-Paul De Roover
> www.jeanpaulderoover.com
> (807) 251-3376

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<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>No custom click without taking up a phrase... Unless u meet the Japanese people who built and convince them to make an alternate chip with a real gosh darn click on it... Believe me, I've asked about 600 times...<br><br>Teddy Kumpel<div><a href="http://teddyjam.com">http://teddyjam.com</a></div></div><div><br>On Jan 3, 2013, at 7:48 PM, Jean-Paul De Roover &lt;<a href="mailto:j.de.roover@gmail.com">j.de.roover@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr">Thanks Teddy, I'm glad you liked it!<div><br></div><div>My concern is; can it be done without taking up a phrase? That way all 3 phrases are clear, and an uploaded wav file is playable by engaging the tempo track on/off.&nbsp;</div>

<div><br></div><div>Good to know about the 2/4 stick click, thanks!</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 3:55 PM, <a href="http://Teddyjam.com">Teddyjam.com</a> <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:teddy@teddyjam.com" target="_blank">teddy@teddyjam.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div>I use the rc50 that way. You can load in a click of your choice as a wave but it takes up a phrase and you lose some flexibility. I put the machine in 2/4 time which gives you a choice of stick click which is not available is other time sigs. You can still do odd times if you do the math.</div>

<div><br></div><div>By the way I saw your balcony show, great work man!!!<br><br>Teddy Kumpel<div><a href="http://teddyjam.com" target="_blank">http://teddyjam.com</a></div></div><div><div class="h5"><div><br>On Jan 3, 2013, at 3:40 PM, Jean-Paul De Roover &lt;<a href="mailto:j.de.roover@gmail.com" target="_blank">j.de.roover@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>

<br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr">Hey Gang,<div><br></div><div>Is it possible to replace the guide/rhythm tracks with another file? I don't need to be able to adjust the pitch on it, so replacing it with a wav file at, say, 120 BPM would be just fine.&nbsp;</div>



<div><br></div><div>I'm putting together a live band (3-piece) for some shows and hopefully eventual tour, and I'm trying to come up with some better solutions for click tracks for the drummer.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div>



<div>Thanks!<br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>Jean-Paul De Roover<br><a href="http://www.jeanpaulderoover.com" target="_blank">www.jeanpaulderoover.com</a><br><a href="tel:%28807%29%20251-3376" value="+18072513376" target="_blank">(807) 251-3376</a>
</div></div>
</div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>Jean-Paul De Roover<br><a href="http://www.jeanpaulderoover.com" target="_blank">www.jeanpaulderoover.com</a><br>(807) 251-3376
</div>
</div></blockquote></body></html>
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jan  4 13:48:45 2013
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Subject: Galactic Travels Playlist #822 for January 3, 2013.
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http://soundscapes.us/gt/playlists/2013/130103.html

Galactic Travels is an electronic, ambient, and space music show, that
airs each Thursday at 11:04 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and Bethlehem,
PA, 93.9 FM in Easton, PA and Phillipsburg, NJ, 93.7 FM in Fogelsville
and Trexlertown, and webcasting on the internet.  WDIY also broadcasts
in Digital HD at 88.1 FM.

Show #822 January 3, 2013.
WDIY Playlist:
http://wdiy.org/programs/galactic-travels?playlist_date=01-03-2013

RECAP:
On this show, I began a month-long focus on Mystified. The Featured CD
at Midnight was "Tribute To Forbidden Planet" on Roil Noise Records.
http://soundscapes.us/gt/playlists/2013/focus.html#jan


PLAYLIST:

11:04 pm
ARTIST               TRACK                ALBUM (label)
==================== ==================== ==============================
Kevin Braheny        Starflight 1 *       Galaxies (Hearts of Space)
Chuck van Zyl        Sentinel             Cenotaph (Synkronos)
Robert Schroeder     Acceleration         Ferro OXID (Spheric)
Steve Roach and      Setting Forth        Tales from the Ultra Tribe
   Byron Metcalf                             (Projekt)
Steve Roach and      A Noble Direction    Tales from the Ultra Tribe
   Byron Metcalf                             (Projekt)
Bryan Carrigan       Solace               Windows (Peonies)


12:00 am
ARTIST               TRACK                ALBUM (label)
==================== ==================== ==============================
Mystified            Track One            Tribute To Forbidden Planet
                                             (Roil Noise)
Mystified            Track Two            TTFP (Roil Noise)
Mystified            Track Three          TTFP (Roil Noise)
Mystified            Track Four           TTFP (Roil Noise)
Mystified            Track Five           TTFP (Roil Noise)
Mystified            Track Six            TTFP (Roil Noise)
Mystified            Track Seven          TTFP (Roil Noise)
Mystified            Track Eight          TTFP (Roil Noise)
Mystified            Track Nine           TTFP (Roil Noise)
Mystified            Track Ten            TTFP (Roil Noise)
Mystified            Track Eleven         TTFP (Roil Noise)
Mystified            Track Twelve         TTFP (Roil Noise)
Mystified            Track Thirteen       TTFP (Roil Noise)
Mystified            Track Fourteen       TTFP (Roil Noise)
Mystified            Track Fifteen        TTFP (Roil Noise)
Mystified            Track Sixteen        TTFP (Roil Noise)
Mystified            Track Seventeen      TTFP (Roil Noise)
Mystified            Track Eighteen       TTFP (Roil Noise)
Mystified            Track Nineteen       TTFP (Roil Noise)
Mystified            Track Twenty         TTFP (Roil Noise)
Mystified            Track Twenty-One     TTFP (Roil Noise)
Mystified            Track Twenty-Two     TTFP (Roil Noise)
Mystified            Track Twenty-Three   TTFP (Roil Noise)
Juta Takahashi       Monochrome Sorrow    Quiet Rain (Lunisolar)


1:00 am

  * = excerpt
VA = Various Artists (compilation)
++ = Advance CDR from Artist
-- = Background music under interview


NEXT SHOW:
On the next Galactic Travels, I'll continue the month-long focus on
Mystified.  The Featured CD at Midnight will be "Flickering Fuel on
Dark Meadow Recordings."

WDIY Announcement: http://wdiy.org/post/next-galactic-travels-2013-01-10

Bill
========================================================================
Host of Galactic Travels, an electronic, ambient, and space music show,
Thursdays at 11:04 pm EST/GMT-5 on WDIY 88.1 FM in Allentown and
Bethlehem, 93.9 FM in Easton and Phillipsburg, and on 93.7 FM in
Trexlertown and Fogelsville.  WDIY also broadcasts in HD Digital Radio
on 88.1 FM.
Galactic Travels web site: http://galactictravels.info
Listen to WDIY at http://wdiy.org/programs/galactic-travels on-line.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jan  5 00:50:23 2013
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Subject: Multibenders!
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Im not sure but this might only be directed at Bill...
I just got a Duesenberg Multibender in the post. Just about to install it,
and I was wondering what are the most useful down-bends and up-bends that
people have tried?

I bought one extra bar, totalling 3, and was thinking of doing G string up
a semi, and B up a half step, that I believe is a classic, and the extra
bar was just gonna be for a down bend somewhere, maybe just the low E, not
for a country sound just some twang..

Any other combinations? Im thinking there must be a sweet combo where one
string gos down while another goes up...?

Mark

-- 
*Mark Francombe*
www.markfrancombe.com
www.ordoabkhao.com
http://vimeo.com/user825094
http://www.looop.no
twitter @markfrancombe
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/

--047d7b10c8611f9df404d27ffb07
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Im not sure but this might only be directed at Bill...<br>=
I just got a Duesenberg Multibender in the post. Just about to install it, =
and I was wondering what are the most useful down-bends and up-bends that p=
eople have tried?<br>

<br>I bought one extra bar, totalling 3, and was thinking of doing G string=
 up a semi, and B up a half step, that I believe is a classic, and the extr=
a bar was just gonna be for a down bend somewhere, maybe just the low E, no=
t for a country sound just some twang..<div>

<br></div><div>Any other combinations? Im thinking there must be a sweet co=
mbo where one string gos down while another goes up...?</div><div><br></div=
><div>Mark<br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><i style=3D"font-family:v=
erdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(255,255,255);background-color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font=
 style=3D"font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif" size=3D"4"><u>Mark Francombe=
</u></font></i><br>

<font size=3D"1"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.markfra=
ncombe.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.markfrancombe.com</a><br style=3D"color:=
rgb(51,0,51)"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.ordoabkhao=
.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.ordoabkhao.com</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,=
51)">

<a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://vimeo.com/user825094" target=
=3D"_blank">http://vimeo.com/user825094</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)"=
><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.looop.no/" target=3D"_b=
lank">http://www.looop.no</a><br>

twitter @markfrancombe<br><a href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@=
N00/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/</a><br><=
/font>
</div></div>

--047d7b10c8611f9df404d27ffb07--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jan  5 03:36:03 2013
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Subject: Re: OT Multibenders!
From: Ted Killian <tedkillian@charter.net>
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Mark,

I'd be interested in knowing a little more about those too.

I have a spare Tele that would be a good candidate for that kind of =
thing.

Please share whatever info you find out (if it doesn't get posted to =
this list).

Thanks!

Ted

On Jan 4, 2013, at 4:50 PM, mark francombe wrote:

> Im not sure but this might only be directed at Bill...
> I just got a Duesenberg Multibender in the post. Just about to install =
it, and I was wondering what are the most useful down-bends and up-bends =
that people have tried?
>=20
> I bought one extra bar, totalling 3, and was thinking of doing G =
string up a semi, and B up a half step, that I believe is a classic, and =
the extra bar was just gonna be for a down bend somewhere, maybe just =
the low E, not for a country sound just some twang..
>=20
> Any other combinations? Im thinking there must be a sweet combo where =
one string gos down while another goes up...?
>=20
> Mark
>=20
> --=20
> Mark Francombe
> www.markfrancombe.com
> www.ordoabkhao.com
> http://vimeo.com/user825094
> http://www.looop.no
> twitter @markfrancombe
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/

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---1682663710-1599048735-1357412458=:3955
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I have been thinking about installing one of these. I like open G, if you raise the middle D to an E it gives you a nice minor chord ( a bar slant here strings 5-4-3 gives you a 9th), you can drop the middle G for a 7th, and raising the high B to C is a classic pedal steel tone.

Eric





>________________________________
> From: Ted Killian <tedkillian@charter.net>
>To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com 
>Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 10:36 PM
>Subject: Re: OT Multibenders!
> 
>Mark,
>
>I'd be interested in knowing a little more about those too.
>
>I have a spare Tele that would be a good candidate for that kind of thing.
>
>Please share whatever info you find out (if it doesn't get posted to this list).
>
>Thanks!
>
>Ted
>
>On Jan 4, 2013, at 4:50 PM, mark francombe wrote:
>
>> Im not sure but this might only be directed at Bill...
>> I just got a Duesenberg Multibender in the post. Just about to install it, and I was wondering what are the most useful down-bends and up-bends that people have tried?
>> 
>> I bought one extra bar, totalling 3, and was thinking of doing G string up a semi, and B up a half step, that I believe is a classic, and the extra bar was just gonna be for a down bend somewhere, maybe just the low E, not for a country sound just some twang..
>> 
>> Any other combinations? Im thinking there must be a sweet combo where one string gos down while another goes up...?
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> -- 
>> Mark Francombe
>> www.markfrancombe.com
>> www.ordoabkhao.com
>> http://vimeo.com/user825094
>> http://www.looop.no
>> twitter @markfrancombe
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/
>
>
>
>
---1682663710-1599048735-1357412458=:3955
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt">I have been thinking about installing one of these. I like open G, if you raise the middle D to an E it gives you a nice minor chord ( a bar slant here strings 5-4-3 gives you a 9th), you can drop the middle G for a 7th, and raising the high B to C is a classic pedal steel tone.<br><br>Eric<br><div><span><br></span></div><div><br><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; padding-left: 5px;">  <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <hr size="1">  <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Ted Killian &lt;tedkillian@charter.net&gt;<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b>
 Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday, January 4, 2013 10:36 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: OT Multibenders!<br> </font> </div> <br>
Mark,<br><br>I'd be interested in knowing a little more about those too.<br><br>I have a spare Tele that would be a good candidate for that kind of thing.<br><br>Please share whatever info you find out (if it doesn't get posted to this list).<br><br>Thanks!<br><br>Ted<br><br>On Jan 4, 2013, at 4:50 PM, mark francombe wrote:<br><br>&gt; Im not sure but this might only be directed at Bill...<br>&gt; I just got a Duesenberg Multibender in the post. Just about to install it, and I was wondering what are the most useful down-bends and up-bends that people have tried?<br>&gt; <br>&gt; I bought one extra bar, totalling 3, and was thinking of doing G string up a semi, and B up a half step, that I believe is a classic, and the extra bar was just gonna be for a down bend somewhere, maybe just the low E, not for a country sound just some twang..<br>&gt; <br>&gt; Any other combinations? Im thinking there must be a sweet combo where one string gos down while another
 goes up...?<br>&gt; <br>&gt; Mark<br>&gt; <br>&gt; -- <br>&gt; Mark Francombe<br>&gt; <a target="_blank" href="http://www.markfrancombe.com/">www.markfrancombe.com</a><br>&gt; <a target="_blank" href="http://www.ordoabkhao.com/">www.ordoabkhao.com</a><br>&gt; http://vimeo.com/user825094<br>&gt; http://www.looop.no<br>&gt; twitter @markfrancombe<br>&gt; http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/<br><br><br><br> </div> </div> </blockquote></div>   </div></body></html>
---1682663710-1599048735-1357412458=:3955--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jan  6 18:41:03 2013
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Subject: Upcoming NAMM
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	Hi All!

Hope the new year is seeing you well. Emile, my deepest condolences and =
best wishes to you and yours.

I'm wondering if any of us are planning any type of get-together for =
Winter NAMM this year? I'd love to meet / catch up with folks! :)

I'll be spending a fair bit of time at / near the Parker Guitars booth =
as they've been most kind in inviting me. So please do stop by and say =
hello if you're in the vicinity and are so inclined. :)

Looking forward to saying hi!

Have a great day!=85

Smiles,

Cara :)
---
View my Online Portfolio at:

http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn

Follow me on Twitter!

https://twitter.com/ModelCara

---
View my Online Portfolio at:
http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn=20

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--e89a8f3b9ccfc712c704d2a353be
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where will namm be?


On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 10:31 AM, Cara Quinn <Cara-Quinn@earthlink.net>wrote=
:

>         Hi All!
>
> Hope the new year is seeing you well. Emile, my deepest condolences and
> best wishes to you and yours.
>
> I'm wondering if any of us are planning any type of get-together for
> Winter NAMM this year? I'd love to meet / catch up with folks! :)
>
> I'll be spending a fair bit of time at / near the Parker Guitars booth as
> they've been most kind in inviting me. So please do stop by and say hello
> if you're in the vicinity and are so inclined. :)
>
> Looking forward to saying hi!
>
> Have a great day!=85
>
> Smiles,
>
> Cara :)
> ---
> View my Online Portfolio at:
>
> http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn
>
> Follow me on Twitter!
>
> https://twitter.com/ModelCara
>
> ---
> View my Online Portfolio at:
> http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn
>
>


--=20
http://www.facebook.com/pages/K3Z/311236368904238

My Music: - http://www.youtube.com/user/gumdrops27
                 - www.soundcloud.com/k3z
My Photography: http://www.flickr.com/photos/k3z/

--e89a8f3b9ccfc712c704d2a353be
Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

where will namm be?<br><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Jan 6, 20=
13 at 10:31 AM, Cara Quinn <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Cara-Qui=
nn@earthlink.net" target=3D"_blank">Cara-Quinn@earthlink.net</a>&gt;</span>=
 wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Hi All!<br>
<br>
Hope the new year is seeing you well. Emile, my deepest condolences and bes=
t wishes to you and yours.<br>
<br>
I&#39;m wondering if any of us are planning any type of get-together for Wi=
nter NAMM this year? I&#39;d love to meet / catch up with folks! :)<br>
<br>
I&#39;ll be spending a fair bit of time at / near the Parker Guitars booth =
as they&#39;ve been most kind in inviting me. So please do stop by and say =
hello if you&#39;re in the vicinity and are so inclined. :)<br>
<br>
Looking forward to saying hi!<br>
<br>
Have a great day!=85<br>
<br>
Smiles,<br>
<br>
Cara :)<br>
---<br>
View my Online Portfolio at:<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn" target=3D"_blank">http:/=
/www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn</a><br>
<br>
Follow me on Twitter!<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"https://twitter.com/ModelCara" target=3D"_blank">https://twitter=
.com/ModelCara</a><br>
<br>
---<br>
View my Online Portfolio at:<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn" target=3D"_blank">http:/=
/www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><a href=3D"http://www.f=
acebook.com/pages/K3Z/311236368904238" target=3D"_blank">http://www.faceboo=
k.com/pages/K3Z/311236368904238</a><br><br>My Music: - <a href=3D"http://ww=
w.youtube.com/user/gumdrops27" target=3D"_blank">http://www.youtube.com/use=
r/gumdrops27</a><br>
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0 - <a href=3D"http://www.soun=
dcloud.com/k3z" target=3D"_blank">www.soundcloud.com/k3z</a><br>My Photogra=
phy: <a href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/photos/k3z/" target=3D"_blank">http:/=
/www.flickr.com/photos/k3z/</a><br>
<br><br>

--e89a8f3b9ccfc712c704d2a353be--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jan  6 19:51:08 2013
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Subject: Multibenders!
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 11:51:01 -0800
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hey Mark, that is awesome. First of all i assume its going on a  
regular guitar? as you know mine is on a lap steel so all of my  
adjustments are based on open tunings of various stripes that i use.  
With that said I have only used two levers , one on the G and one on  
the B string, and I've only set it up for string pulls, usually a 1/2  
step or whole step bend on either string specific to which tuning I'm  
using. I have a third lever as well but I haven't even installed it  
yet. As I understand wound strings are better for drop tunings, and I  
believe a bit problematic for up bends. At some point i might add the  
third lever on the high E string as a drop tuner, in major tunings to  
drop to the major or b7. Just getting the hang of 2 levers has been  
occupying my time just fine:-)
here are some of the tunings I use with the pitch change settings in  
parenthesis

D major tuning   low to high  D,  A, D,  F# (+1/2, for sus, +1, for  
lydian#4), A (+1 for maj 6),  D
D sus 2 tuning                         D,  A, D,  E  (+1/2, for b3,  
+1, for maj 3rd),  A ( 1/2 for b6, +1 for maj 6),  D
D minor tuning                        D,  A, D,  F  (+1/2, for maj  
3rd, +1, for sus 4),  A ( 1/2 for b6, +1 for maj 6),  D
D sus 4                                     D,  A, D,  G  (+1/2, for  
b5, +1, for 5th),  A (  +1 for maj 6),  D
  i also use variants of these in C and also in open G and its  
mutations as well, moving to E requires lighter gauge strings than I  
like to use for lap steel playing but i've gotten good results when i  
did,  i would recommend you start with the current gauge of strings  
you like to use. it seems that the heavier the gauge the less up or  
down maximum range you can get and the strings are under heavier  
tension as well so breaking them is easier and keeping the strings  
fresh particularly on the levered strings is important. as a general  
rule anythin higher tna a major second up bend is riskier for string  
breaking
  have fun
  Bill

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jan  6 21:04:17 2013
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Thanks Bill, Thats fantastic! That infos a keeper... Straight into Evernote!
I am having a lot o fun already, although the
installation wasn't completely without issues, and I do need to tweak a bit.

Firstly Im installing on my Baritone, so all the strings are thicker and
actually I swapped strings this time for some coated shit, (Damn that sales
guy... Ive been using Ernie Ball for 20 years.. now my finger tips hurt!!!)
 that I think are EVEN THICKER!!

The upshot was that some of the strings wouldnt go into the bend handles
slot, wither of them, up OR down. AND the slip wheels under the bridge also
caused some obstruction. I have to file out my lowest arm slot a bit.
But still.. the top two arms are working fine and Im using then the same as
you on the B and G strings, ATM I have them both set to one tone up, and
have accidentally come across a few pedal steel-ish licks already. My aim
however is NOT to go all country on ya'all... I was intrigued by the
multibend idea simply because that is very similar to how I play guitar
anyway, I form a chord, and then move one finger up or down. (think Velvet
Underground or Spiritulized).

However, I do like the simplicity of the county sound, that one string
twangs up to a new tone and creates that shimmer. Even tho my guitar will
be normal tuning (for a bari) I love how this guy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcSBKjCyXDU gets some nice variation, just
out of one chord (hes tuned, I could easily just hold a chord) ...

Also when looping, one doesnt have to think about playing all the time, its
nice to have some new sounds right there, made in hardware... rather than a
patch!!

Thanks Bill, gonna check all these out..

M



On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 8:51 PM, William Walker <billwalker@baymoon.com>wrote:

> hey Mark, that is awesome. First of all i assume its going on a regular
> guitar? as you know mine is on a lap steel so all of my adjustments are
> based on open tunings of various stripes that i use. With that said I have
> only used two levers , one on the G and one on the B string, and I've only
> set it up for string pulls, usually a 1/2 step or whole step bend on either
> string specific to which tuning I'm using. I have a third lever as well but
> I haven't even installed it yet. As I understand wound strings are better
> for drop tunings, and I believe a bit problematic for up bends. At some
> point i might add the third lever on the high E string as a drop tuner, in
> major tunings to drop to the major or b7. Just getting the hang of 2 levers
> has been occupying my time just fine:-)
> here are some of the tunings I use with the pitch change settings in
> parenthesis
>
> D major tuning   low to high  D,  A, D,  F# (+1/2, for sus, +1, for
> lydian#4), A (+1 for maj 6),  D
> D sus 2 tuning                         D,  A, D,  E  (+1/2, for b3, +1,
> for maj 3rd),  A ( 1/2 for b6, +1 for maj 6),  D
> D minor tuning                        D,  A, D,  F  (+1/2, for maj 3rd,
> +1, for sus 4),  A ( 1/2 for b6, +1 for maj 6),  D
> D sus 4                                     D,  A, D,  G  (+1/2, for b5,
> +1, for 5th),  A (  +1 for maj 6),  D
>  i also use variants of these in C and also in open G and its mutations as
> well, moving to E requires lighter gauge strings than I like to use for lap
> steel playing but i've gotten good results when i did,  i would recommend
> you start with the current gauge of strings you like to use. it seems that
> the heavier the gauge the less up or down maximum range you can get and the
> strings are under heavier tension as well so breaking them is easier and
> keeping the strings fresh particularly on the levered strings is important.
> as a general rule anythin higher tna a major second up bend is riskier for
> string breaking
>  have fun
>  Bill
>
>


-- 
*Mark Francombe*
www.markfrancombe.com
www.ordoabkhao.com
http://vimeo.com/user825094
http://www.looop.no
twitter @markfrancombe
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/

--e89a8ff1bf66353e9504d2a50eba
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Thanks Bill, Thats fantastic! That infos a keeper... Strai=
ght into Evernote!<br>I am having a lot o fun already,=A0although=A0the ins=
tallation=A0wasn&#39;t=A0completely without issues, and I do need to tweak =
a bit.<div>

<br></div><div>Firstly Im installing on my Baritone, so all the strings are=
 thicker and actually I swapped strings this time for some coated shit, (Da=
mn that sales guy... Ive been using Ernie Ball for 20 years.. now my finger=
 tips hurt!!!) =A0that I think are EVEN THICKER!!</div>

<div><br></div><div>The upshot was that some of the strings wouldnt go into=
 the bend handles slot, wither of them, up OR down. AND the slip wheels und=
er the bridge also caused some obstruction. I have to file out my lowest ar=
m slot a bit.</div>

<div style>But still.. the top two arms are working fine and Im using then =
the same as you on the B and G strings, ATM I have them both set to one ton=
e up, and have accidentally come across a few pedal steel-ish licks already=
. My aim however is NOT to go all country on ya&#39;all... I was intrigued =
by the multibend idea simply because that is very=A0similar=A0to how I play=
 guitar anyway, I form a chord, and then move one finger up or down. (think=
 Velvet Underground or Spiritulized).</div>

<div style><br></div><div style>However, I do like the simplicity of the co=
unty sound, that one string twangs up to a new tone and creates that shimme=
r. Even tho my guitar will be normal tuning (for a bari) I love how this gu=
y</div>

<div style><a href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DVcSBKjCyXDU">http://=
www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DVcSBKjCyXDU</a> gets some nice variation, just ou=
t of one chord (hes tuned, I could easily just hold a chord) ...<br></div><=
div style>

<br></div><div style>Also when looping, one doesnt have to think about play=
ing all the time, its nice to have some new sounds right there, made in har=
dware... rather than a patch!!</div><div style><br></div><div style>Thanks =
Bill, gonna check all these out..</div>

<div style><br></div><div style>M</div><div style><br></div></div><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at=
 8:51 PM, William Walker <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:billwalker=
@baymoon.com" target=3D"_blank">billwalker@baymoon.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote=
:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">hey Mark, that is awesome. First of all i as=
sume its going on a regular guitar? as you know mine is on a lap steel so a=
ll of my adjustments are based on open tunings of various stripes that i us=
e. With that said I have only used two levers , one on the G and one on the=
 B string, and I&#39;ve only set it up for string pulls, usually a 1/2 step=
 or whole step bend on either string specific to which tuning I&#39;m using=
. I have a third lever as well but I haven&#39;t even installed it yet. As =
I understand wound strings are better for drop tunings, and I believe a bit=
 problematic for up bends. At some point i might add the third lever on the=
 high E string as a drop tuner, in major tunings to drop to the major or b7=
. Just getting the hang of 2 levers has been occupying my time just fine:-)=
<br>


here are some of the tunings I use with the pitch change settings in parent=
hesis<br>
<br>
D major tuning =A0 low to high =A0D, =A0A, D, =A0F# (+1/2, for sus, +1, for=
 lydian#4), A (+1 for maj 6), =A0D<br>
D sus 2 tuning =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 D, =A0A, D, =
=A0E =A0(+1/2, for b3, +1, for maj 3rd), =A0A ( 1/2 for b6, +1 for maj 6), =
=A0D<br>
D minor tuning =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0D, =A0A, D, =
=A0F =A0(+1/2, for maj 3rd, +1, for sus 4), =A0A ( 1/2 for b6, +1 for maj 6=
), =A0D<br>
D sus 4 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=
 =A0 D, =A0A, D, =A0G =A0(+1/2, for b5, +1, for 5th), =A0A ( =A0+1 for maj =
6), =A0D<br>
=A0i also use variants of these in C and also in open G and its mutations a=
s well, moving to E requires lighter gauge strings than I like to use for l=
ap steel playing but i&#39;ve gotten good results when i did, =A0i would re=
commend you start with the current gauge of strings you like to use. it see=
ms that the heavier the gauge the less up or down maximum range you can get=
 and the strings are under heavier tension as well so breaking them is easi=
er and keeping the strings fresh particularly on the levered strings is imp=
ortant. as a general rule anythin higher tna a major second up bend is risk=
ier for string breaking<br>


=A0have fun<br>
=A0Bill<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><i style=3D"=
font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(255,255,255);background-color:rgb(=
0,0,0)"><font style=3D"font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif" size=3D"4"><u>M=
ark Francombe</u></font></i><br>

<font size=3D"1"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.markfra=
ncombe.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.markfrancombe.com</a><br style=3D"color:=
rgb(51,0,51)"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.ordoabkhao=
.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.ordoabkhao.com</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,=
51)">

<a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://vimeo.com/user825094" target=
=3D"_blank">http://vimeo.com/user825094</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)"=
><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.looop.no/" target=3D"_b=
lank">http://www.looop.no</a><br>

twitter @markfrancombe<br><a href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@=
N00/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/</a><br><=
/font>
</div>

--e89a8ff1bf66353e9504d2a50eba--

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Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 13:23:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Elmer Fuddski <jakebrakesrule@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: Elmer Fuddski <jakebrakesrule@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Upcoming NAMM
To: "Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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I'm looking forward to the hoochie mamas at the vendor booths! Aiy-yie-yie,=
 caramba!=0A=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Cara Quinn =
<Cara-Quinn@earthlink.net>=0ATo: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com =0ASen=
t: Sunday, January 6, 2013 1:31 PM=0ASubject: Upcoming NAMM=0A  =0A=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 Hi All!=0A=0AHope the new year is seeing you well. Emile, my d=
eepest condolences and best wishes to you and yours.=0A=0AI'm wondering if =
any of us are planning any type of get-together for Winter NAMM this year? =
I'd love to meet / catch up with folks! :)=0A=0AI'll be spending a fair bit=
 of time at / near the Parker Guitars booth as they've been most kind in in=
viting me. So please do stop by and say hello if you're in the vicinity and=
 are so inclined. :)=0A=0ALooking forward to saying hi!=0A=0AHave a great d=
ay!=E2=80=A6=0A=0ASmiles,=0A=0ACara :)=0A---=0AView my Online Portfolio at:=
=0A=0Ahttp://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn=0A=0AFollow me on Twitter!=0A=
=0Ahttps://twitter.com/ModelCara=0A=0A---=0AView my Online Portfolio at:=0A=
http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn 
---2038480821-1804202575-1357507382=:99178
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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:ti=
mes new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>I'm lookin=
g forward to the hoochie mamas at the vendor booths! Aiy-yie-yie, caramba!<=
/span></div><div><br></div>  <div style=3D"font-family: times new roman, ne=
w york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style=3D"font-family: times n=
ew roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <fon=
t size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"> <div style=3D"margin: 5px 0px; padding: 0px; b=
order: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); height: 0px; line-height: 0; font-size=
: 0px;" class=3D"hr" contentEditable=3D"false" readonly=3D"true"></div>  <b=
><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Cara Quinn &lt;Cara-Qu=
inn@earthlink.net&gt;<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:</span><=
/b> Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com <br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:=
 bold;">Sent:</span></b> Sunday, January 6, 2013 1:31 PM<br> <b><span style=
=3D"font-weight:
 bold;">Subject:</span></b> Upcoming NAMM<br> </font> </div> <br>=0A&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; Hi All!<br><br>Hope the new year is seeing you well. Emile, my =
deepest condolences and best wishes to you and yours.<br><br>I'm wondering =
if any of us are planning any type of get-together for Winter NAMM this yea=
r? I'd love to meet / catch up with folks! :)<br><br>I'll be spending a fai=
r bit of time at / near the Parker Guitars booth as they've been most kind =
in inviting me. So please do stop by and say hello if you're in the vicinit=
y and are so inclined. :)<br><br>Looking forward to saying hi!<br><br>Have =
a great day!=E2=80=A6<br><br>Smiles,<br><br>Cara :)<br>---<br>View my Onlin=
e Portfolio at:<br><br>http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn<br><br>Follow=
 me on Twitter!<br><br><a href=3D"https://twitter.com/ModelCara" target=3D"=
_blank">https://twitter.com/ModelCara</a><br><br>---<br>View my Online Port=
folio at:<br><a href=3D"http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn" target=3D"_=
blank">http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn</a> <br><br><br><br> </div>
 </div>  </div></body></html>
---2038480821-1804202575-1357507382=:99178--

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Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 15:36:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Tim Mungenast <tmungenast@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Multibenders!
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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dang! i'd love to see this, but lately i haven't been able to open ANYTHING=
 on youtube... just a black rectangle that does not respond. anyone else ha=
ving this issue?

Tim Mungenast
Editor/Writer/Proofreader: www.linkedin.com/in/timmungenast
Guitarist/Composer/Vocalist: www.reverbnation.com/timmungenast

--- On Sun, 1/6/13, mark francombe <mark@markfrancombe.com> wrote:

From: mark francombe <mark@markfrancombe.com>
Subject: Re: Multibenders!
To: "loopers-delight" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Date: Sunday, January 6, 2013, 4:03 PM

Thanks Bill, Thats fantastic! That infos a keeper... Straight into Evernote=
!
I am having a lot o fun already,=A0although=A0the installation=A0wasn't=A0c=
ompletely without issues, and I do need to tweak a bit.=0A=0A
Firstly Im installing on my Baritone, so all the strings are thicker and ac=
tually I swapped strings this time for some coated shit, (Damn that sales g=
uy... Ive been using Ernie Ball for 20 years.. now my finger tips hurt!!!) =
=A0that I think are EVEN THICKER!!=0A=0A
The upshot was that some of the strings wouldnt go into the bend handles sl=
ot, wither of them, up OR down. AND the slip wheels under the bridge also c=
aused some obstruction. I have to file out my lowest arm slot a bit.=0A=0AB=
ut still.. the top two arms are working fine and Im using then the same as =
you on the B and G strings, ATM I have them both set to one tone up, and ha=
ve accidentally come across a few pedal steel-ish licks already. My aim how=
ever is NOT to go all country on ya'all... I was intrigued by the multibend=
 idea simply because that is very=A0similar=A0to how I play guitar anyway, =
I form a chord, and then move one finger up or down. (think Velvet Undergro=
und or Spiritulized).=0A=0A
However, I do like the simplicity of the county sound, that one string twan=
gs up to a new tone and creates that shimmer. Even tho my guitar will be no=
rmal tuning (for a bari) I love how this guy=0A=0Ahttp://www.youtube.com/wa=
tch?v=3DVcSBKjCyXDU gets some nice variation, just out of one chord (hes tu=
ned, I could easily just hold a chord) ...
=0A=0A
Also when looping, one doesnt have to think about playing all the time, its=
 nice to have some new sounds right there, made in hardware... rather than =
a patch!!
Thanks Bill, gonna check all these out..=0A=0A
M


On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 8:51 PM, William Walker <billwalker@baymoon.com> wro=
te:
=0A=0Ahey Mark, that is awesome. First of all i assume its going on a regul=
ar guitar? as you know mine is on a lap steel so all of my adjustments are =
based on open tunings of various stripes that i use. With that said I have =
only used two levers , one on the G and one on the B string, and I've only =
set it up for string pulls, usually a 1/2 step or whole step bend on either=
 string specific to which tuning I'm using. I have a third lever as well bu=
t I haven't even installed it yet. As I understand wound strings are better=
 for drop tunings, and I believe a bit problematic for up bends. At some po=
int i might add the third lever on the high E string as a drop tuner, in ma=
jor tunings to drop to the major or b7. Just getting the hang of 2 levers h=
as been occupying my time just fine:-)
=0A=0A=0Ahere are some of the tunings I use with the pitch change settings =
in parenthesis
=0A
=0AD major tuning =A0 low to high =A0D, =A0A, D, =A0F# (+1/2, for sus, +1, =
for lydian#4), A (+1 for maj 6), =A0D
=0AD sus 2 tuning =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 D, =A0A, =
D, =A0E =A0(+1/2, for b3, +1, for maj 3rd), =A0A ( 1/2 for b6, +1 for maj 6=
), =A0D
=0AD minor tuning =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0D, =A0A, D=
, =A0F =A0(+1/2, for maj 3rd, +1, for sus 4), =A0A ( 1/2 for b6, +1 for maj=
 6), =A0D
=0AD sus 4 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 D, =A0A, D, =A0G =A0(+1/2, for b5, +1, for 5th), =A0A ( =A0+1 for m=
aj 6), =A0D
=0A=A0i also use variants of these in C and also in open G and its mutation=
s as well, moving to E requires lighter gauge strings than I like to use fo=
r lap steel playing but i've gotten good results when i did, =A0i would rec=
ommend you start with the current gauge of strings you like to use. it seem=
s that the heavier the gauge the less up or down maximum range you can get =
and the strings are under heavier tension as well so breaking them is easie=
r and keeping the strings fresh particularly on the levered strings is impo=
rtant. as a general rule anythin higher tna a major second up bend is riski=
er for string breaking
=0A=0A=0A=A0have fun
=0A=A0Bill
=0A
=0A


--=20
Mark Francombe
=0A=0Awww.markfrancombe.com
www.ordoabkhao.com
=0A=0Ahttp://vimeo.com/user825094
http://www.looop.no
=0A=0Atwitter @markfrancombe
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/
=0A=0A
---821251416-937493231-1357515400=:50442
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td valign=3D"=
top" style=3D"font: inherit;"><br>dang! i'd love to see this, but lately i =
haven't been able to open ANYTHING on youtube... just a black rectangle tha=
t does not respond. anyone else having this issue?<br><br><span style=3D"fo=
nt-weight:bold;font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;">Tim Mungenast</=
span><br><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;color:rgb(0, 0, 255);font-family:v=
erdana, helvetica, sans-serif;">Editor/Writer/Proofreader:</span><span styl=
e=3D"font-weight:bold;"></span> <span style=3D"font-family:verdana, helveti=
ca, sans-serif;font-style:italic;">www.linkedin.com/in/timmungenast</span><=
br style=3D"font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"fon=
t-weight:bold;color:rgb(0, 0, 255);font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-ser=
if;">Guitarist/Composer/Vocalist:</span> <span style=3D"font-family:verdana=
, helvetica,
 sans-serif;font-style:italic;">www.reverbnation.com/timmungenast</span><br=
><br>--- On <b>Sun, 1/6/13, mark francombe <i>&lt;mark@markfrancombe.com&gt=
;</i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote style=3D"border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16,=
 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br>From: mark francombe &lt;m=
ark@markfrancombe.com&gt;<br>Subject: Re: Multibenders!<br>To: "loopers-del=
ight" &lt;Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com&gt;<br>Date: Sunday, January =
6, 2013, 4:03 PM<br><br><div id=3D"yiv544049566"><div dir=3D"ltr">Thanks Bi=
ll, Thats fantastic! That infos a keeper... Straight into Evernote!<br>I am=
 having a lot o fun already,&nbsp;although&nbsp;the installation&nbsp;wasn'=
t&nbsp;completely without issues, and I do need to tweak a bit.<div>=0A=0A<=
br></div><div>Firstly Im installing on my Baritone, so all the strings are =
thicker and actually I swapped strings this time for some coated shit, (Dam=
n that sales guy... Ive been using Ernie Ball for 20 years.. now my finger =
tips hurt!!!) &nbsp;that I think are EVEN THICKER!!</div>=0A=0A<div><br></d=
iv><div>The upshot was that some of the strings wouldnt go into the bend ha=
ndles slot, wither of them, up OR down. AND the slip wheels under the bridg=
e also caused some obstruction. I have to file out my lowest arm slot a bit=
.</div>=0A=0A<div style=3D"">But still.. the top two arms are working fine =
and Im using then the same as you on the B and G strings, ATM I have them b=
oth set to one tone up, and have accidentally come across a few pedal steel=
-ish licks already. My aim however is NOT to go all country on ya'all... I =
was intrigued by the multibend idea simply because that is very&nbsp;simila=
r&nbsp;to how I play guitar anyway, I form a chord, and then move one finge=
r up or down. (think Velvet Underground or Spiritulized).</div>=0A=0A<div s=
tyle=3D""><br></div><div style=3D"">However, I do like the simplicity of th=
e county sound, that one string twangs up to a new tone and creates that sh=
immer. Even tho my guitar will be normal tuning (for a bari) I love how thi=
s guy</div>=0A=0A<div style=3D""><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=
=3D"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DVcSBKjCyXDU">http://www.youtube.com/wa=
tch?v=3DVcSBKjCyXDU</a> gets some nice variation, just out of one chord (he=
s tuned, I could easily just hold a chord) ...<br></div><div style=3D"">=0A=
=0A<br></div><div style=3D"">Also when looping, one doesnt have to think ab=
out playing all the time, its nice to have some new sounds right there, mad=
e in hardware... rather than a patch!!</div><div style=3D""><br></div><div =
style=3D"">Thanks Bill, gonna check all these out..</div>=0A=0A<div style=
=3D""><br></div><div style=3D"">M</div><div style=3D""><br></div></div><div=
 class=3D"yiv544049566gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"yiv544049566gmail_=
quote">On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 8:51 PM, William Walker <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt=
;<a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:billwalker@baymoon.com" target=3D"_b=
lank" href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3Dbillwalker@baymoon.com">billwalker@baymoon.c=
om</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>=0A=0A<blockquote class=3D"yiv544049566gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex=
;">hey Mark, that is awesome. First of all i assume its going on a regular =
guitar? as you know mine is on a lap steel so all of my adjustments are bas=
ed on open tunings of various stripes that i use. With that said I have onl=
y used two levers , one on the G and one on the B string, and I've only set=
 it up for string pulls, usually a 1/2 step or whole step bend on either st=
ring specific to which tuning I'm using. I have a third lever as well but I=
 haven't even installed it yet. As I understand wound strings are better fo=
r drop tunings, and I believe a bit problematic for up bends. At some point=
 i might add the third lever on the high E string as a drop tuner, in major=
 tunings to drop to the major or b7. Just getting the hang of 2 levers has =
been occupying my time just fine:-)<br>=0A=0A=0Ahere are some of the tuning=
s I use with the pitch change settings in parenthesis<br>=0A<br>=0AD major =
tuning &nbsp; low to high &nbsp;D, &nbsp;A, D, &nbsp;F# (+1/2, for sus, +1,=
 for lydian#4), A (+1 for maj 6), &nbsp;D<br>=0AD sus 2 tuning &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; D, =
&nbsp;A, D, &nbsp;E &nbsp;(+1/2, for b3, +1, for maj 3rd), &nbsp;A ( 1/2 fo=
r b6, +1 for maj 6), &nbsp;D<br>=0AD minor tuning &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;D, &nbsp;A, D, &n=
bsp;F &nbsp;(+1/2, for maj 3rd, +1, for sus 4), &nbsp;A ( 1/2 for b6, +1 fo=
r maj 6), &nbsp;D<br>=0AD sus 4 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; D, &nbsp;A, D, &nbsp;G &nbsp;(+1/2, for b5, +1, for 5th), &nbsp;A (=
 &nbsp;+1 for maj 6), &nbsp;D<br>=0A&nbsp;i also use variants of these in C=
 and also in open G and its mutations as well, moving to E requires lighter=
 gauge strings than I like to use for lap steel playing but i've gotten goo=
d results when i did, &nbsp;i would recommend you start with the current ga=
uge of strings you like to use. it seems that the heavier the gauge the les=
s up or down maximum range you can get and the strings are under heavier te=
nsion as well so breaking them is easier and keeping the strings fresh part=
icularly on the levered strings is important. as a general rule anythin hig=
her tna a major second up bend is riskier for string breaking<br>=0A=0A=0A&=
nbsp;have fun<br>=0A&nbsp;Bill<br>=0A<br>=0A</blockquote></div><br><br clea=
r=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><i style=3D"font-family:verdana, sans-serif=
;color:rgb(255,255,255);background-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><font style=3D"font-f=
amily:trebuchet ms, sans-serif;" size=3D"4"><u>Mark Francombe</u></font></i=
><br>=0A=0A<font size=3D"1"><a rel=3D"nofollow" style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)=
;" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.markfrancombe.com/">www.markfrancom=
be.com</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51);"><a rel=3D"nofollow" style=3D"co=
lor:rgb(51,0,51);" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.ordoabkhao.com/">ww=
w.ordoabkhao.com</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51);">=0A=0A<a rel=3D"nofol=
low" style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51);" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://vimeo.c=
om/user825094">http://vimeo.com/user825094</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,5=
1);"><a rel=3D"nofollow" style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51);" target=3D"_blank" hr=
ef=3D"http://www.looop.no/">http://www.looop.no</a><br>=0A=0Atwitter @markf=
rancombe<br><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.flickr=
.com/photos/24478662@N00/">http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/</a><b=
r></font>=0A</div>=0A</div></blockquote></td></tr></table>
---821251416-937493231-1357515400=:50442--

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Subject: Re: Multibenders!
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<head><style>body{font-size:10pt;font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:#ffffff;color:black;}p{margin:0px;}</style></head><body><font color="#000000"><font size="2"><font face="arial,sans-serif">opened for me and I have the most pitiful 'puter<br></font></font></font><blockquote style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 0px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid">-----Original Message-----
<br>From: Tim Mungenast <tmungenast@verizon.net>
<br>Sent: Jan 6, 2013 3:36 PM
<br>To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
<br>Subject: Re: Multibenders!

<br><br><table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"><tbody><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;"><br>dang! i'd love to see this, but lately i haven't been able to open ANYTHING on youtube... just a black rectangle that does not respond. anyone else having this issue?<br><br><span style="font-weight:bold;font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;">Tim Mungenast</span><br><span style="font-weight:bold;color:rgb(0, 0, 255);font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;">Editor/Writer/Proofreader:</span><span style="font-weight:bold;"></span> <span style="font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;font-style:italic;">www.linkedin.com/in/timmungenast</span><br style="font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-weight:bold;color:rgb(0, 0, 255);font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;">Guitarist/Composer/Vocalist:</span> <span style="font-family:verdana, helvetica,
 sans-serif;font-style:italic;">www.reverbnation.com/timmungenast</span><br><br>--- On <b>Sun, 1/6/13, mark francombe <i>&lt;mark@markfrancombe.com&gt;</i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br>From: mark francombe &lt;mark@markfrancombe.com&gt;<br>Subject: Re: Multibenders!<br>To: "loopers-delight" &lt;Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com&gt;<br>Date: Sunday, January 6, 2013, 4:03 PM<br><br><div id="yiv544049566"><div dir="ltr">Thanks Bill, Thats fantastic! That infos a keeper... Straight into Evernote!<br>I am having a lot o fun already,&nbsp;although&nbsp;the installation&nbsp;wasn't&nbsp;completely without issues, and I do need to tweak a bit.<div>

<br></div><div>Firstly Im installing on my Baritone, so all the strings are thicker and actually I swapped strings this time for some coated shit, (Damn that sales guy... Ive been using Ernie Ball for 20 years.. now my finger tips hurt!!!) &nbsp;that I think are EVEN THICKER!!</div>

<div><br></div><div>The upshot was that some of the strings wouldnt go into the bend handles slot, wither of them, up OR down. AND the slip wheels under the bridge also caused some obstruction. I have to file out my lowest arm slot a bit.</div>

<div style="">But still.. the top two arms are working fine and Im using then the same as you on the B and G strings, ATM I have them both set to one tone up, and have accidentally come across a few pedal steel-ish licks already. My aim however is NOT to go all country on ya'all... I was intrigued by the multibend idea simply because that is very&nbsp;similar&nbsp;to how I play guitar anyway, I form a chord, and then move one finger up or down. (think Velvet Underground or Spiritulized).</div>

<div style=""><br></div><div style="">However, I do like the simplicity of the county sound, that one string twangs up to a new tone and creates that shimmer. Even tho my guitar will be normal tuning (for a bari) I love how this guy</div>

<div style=""><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcSBKjCyXDU">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcSBKjCyXDU</a> gets some nice variation, just out of one chord (hes tuned, I could easily just hold a chord) ...<br></div><div style="">

<br></div><div style="">Also when looping, one doesnt have to think about playing all the time, its nice to have some new sounds right there, made in hardware... rather than a patch!!</div><div style=""><br></div><div style="">Thanks Bill, gonna check all these out..</div>

<div style=""><br></div><div style="">M</div><div style=""><br></div></div><div class="yiv544049566gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="yiv544049566gmail_quote">On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 8:51 PM, William Walker <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:billwalker@baymoon.com" target="_blank" href="/mc/compose?to=billwalker@baymoon.com">billwalker@baymoon.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class="yiv544049566gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">hey Mark, that is awesome. First of all i assume its going on a regular guitar? as you know mine is on a lap steel so all of my adjustments are based on open tunings of various stripes that i use. With that said I have only used two levers , one on the G and one on the B string, and I've only set it up for string pulls, usually a 1/2 step or whole step bend on either string specific to which tuning I'm using. I have a third lever as well but I haven't even installed it yet. As I understand wound strings are better for drop tunings, and I believe a bit problematic for up bends. At some point i might add the third lever on the high E string as a drop tuner, in major tunings to drop to the major or b7. Just getting the hang of 2 levers has been occupying my time just fine:-)<br>


here are some of the tunings I use with the pitch change settings in parenthesis<br>
<br>
D major tuning &nbsp; low to high &nbsp;D, &nbsp;A, D, &nbsp;F# (+1/2, for sus, +1, for lydian#4), A (+1 for maj 6), &nbsp;D<br>
D sus 2 tuning &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; D, &nbsp;A, D, &nbsp;E &nbsp;(+1/2, for b3, +1, for maj 3rd), &nbsp;A ( 1/2 for b6, +1 for maj 6), &nbsp;D<br>
D minor tuning &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;D, &nbsp;A, D, &nbsp;F &nbsp;(+1/2, for maj 3rd, +1, for sus 4), &nbsp;A ( 1/2 for b6, +1 for maj 6), &nbsp;D<br>
D sus 4 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; D, &nbsp;A, D, &nbsp;G &nbsp;(+1/2, for b5, +1, for 5th), &nbsp;A ( &nbsp;+1 for maj 6), &nbsp;D<br>
&nbsp;i also use variants of these in C and also in open G and its mutations as well, moving to E requires lighter gauge strings than I like to use for lap steel playing but i've gotten good results when i did, &nbsp;i would recommend you start with the current gauge of strings you like to use. it seems that the heavier the gauge the less up or down maximum range you can get and the strings are under heavier tension as well so breaking them is easier and keeping the strings fresh particularly on the levered strings is important. as a general rule anythin higher tna a major second up bend is riskier for string breaking<br>


&nbsp;have fun<br>
&nbsp;Bill<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><i style="font-family:verdana, sans-serif;color:rgb(255,255,255);background-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><font style="font-family:trebuchet ms, sans-serif;" size="4"><u>Mark Francombe</u></font></i><br>

<font size="1"><a rel="nofollow" style="color:rgb(51,0,51);" target="_blank" href="http://www.markfrancombe.com/">www.markfrancombe.com</a><br style="color:rgb(51,0,51);"><a rel="nofollow" style="color:rgb(51,0,51);" target="_blank" href="http://www.ordoabkhao.com/">www.ordoabkhao.com</a><br style="color:rgb(51,0,51);">

<a rel="nofollow" style="color:rgb(51,0,51);" target="_blank" href="http://vimeo.com/user825094">http://vimeo.com/user825094</a><br style="color:rgb(51,0,51);"><a rel="nofollow" style="color:rgb(51,0,51);" target="_blank" href="http://www.looop.no/">http://www.looop.no</a><br>

twitter @markfrancombe<br><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/">http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/</a><br></font>
</div>
</div></blockquote></td></tr></tbody></table></tmungenast@verizon.net></blockquote></body>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jan  6 23:49:18 2013
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On Jan 6, 2013, at 3:36 PM, Tim Mungenast wrote:

>  to open ANYTHING on youtube... just a black rectangle that does not  
> respond. anyone else having this issue?


I think that is a Flash version issue.

I have that problem because I"m still in OSX 10.5 and the Flash  
software has moved along to 10.6 - no Flash updates anymore for 10.5  
for Firefox, Chrome or Safari.

For black rectangles that you must see, get download software like  
Keep It! or Savevid -- these will give access to mp4 files you can  
save to your drive.

BobC
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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br><div><div>On Jan 6, 2013, =
at 3:36 PM, Tim Mungenast wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: =
normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>to open ANYTHING on =
youtube... just a black rectangle that does not respond. anyone else =
having this issue?</span></blockquote></div><br><div><br></div><div>I =
think that is a Flash version issue.</div><div><br></div><div>I have =
that problem because I"m still in OSX 10.5 and the Flash software has =
moved along to 10.6 - no Flash updates anymore for 10.5 for Firefox, =
Chrome or Safari.</div><div><br></div><div>For black rectangles that you =
must see, get download software like Keep It! or Savevid -- these will =
give access to mp4 files you can save to your =
drive.</div><div><br></div><div>BobC</div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-1--895673454--

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Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 15:57:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Tim Mungenast <tmungenast@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Multibenders!
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thanks for weighing in... i have a one-year-old e-machine laptop running th=
e wretched windows 7 via firefox, so i would be surprised if flash had pass=
ed me by already.
this machine is generally cursed since one of those compulsory updates tube=
d it last month ( cursor jumping from field to field, sudden deletion of en=
tire paragraphs, etc etc )



--- On Sun, 1/6/13, RP Collier <skeptikalist@gmail.com> wrote:

From: RP Collier <skeptikalist@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Multibenders!
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Date: Sunday, January 6, 2013, 6:48 PM


On Jan 6, 2013, at 3:36 PM, Tim Mungenast wrote:
=A0to open ANYTHING on youtube... just a black rectangle that does not resp=
ond. anyone else having this issue?

I think that is a Flash version issue.
I have that problem because I"m still in OSX 10.5 and the Flash software ha=
s moved along to 10.6 - no Flash updates anymore for 10.5 for Firefox, Chro=
me or Safari.
For black rectangles that you must see, get download software like Keep It!=
 or Savevid -- these will give access to mp4 files you can save to your dri=
ve.
BobC
---873129165-2004938759-1357516630=:81178
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td valign=3D"=
top" style=3D"font: inherit;"><br>thanks for weighing in... i have a one-ye=
ar-old e-machine laptop running the wretched windows 7 via firefox, so i wo=
uld be surprised if flash had passed me by already.<br>this machine is gene=
rally cursed since one of those compulsory updates tubed it last month ( cu=
rsor jumping from field to field, sudden deletion of entire paragraphs, etc=
 etc )<br><br><br><br>--- On <b>Sun, 1/6/13, RP Collier <i>&lt;skeptikalist=
@gmail.com&gt;</i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote style=3D"border-left: 2px soli=
d rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br>From: RP Coll=
ier &lt;skeptikalist@gmail.com&gt;<br>Subject: Re: Multibenders!<br>To: Loo=
pers-Delight@loopers-delight.com<br>Date: Sunday, January 6, 2013, 6:48 PM<=
br><br><div id=3D"yiv1572871671"><div><br><div><div>On Jan 6, 2013, at 3:36=
 PM, Tim Mungenast wrote:</div><br
 class=3D"yiv1572871671Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"=
><span class=3D"yiv1572871671Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse:sep=
arate;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-varia=
nt:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;orpha=
ns:2;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;widows:2;word-s=
pacing:0px;font-size:medium;"><span class=3D"yiv1572871671Apple-converted-s=
pace">&nbsp;</span>to open ANYTHING on youtube... just a black rectangle th=
at does not respond. anyone else having this issue?</span></blockquote></di=
v><br><div><br></div><div>I think that is a Flash version issue.</div><div>=
<br></div><div>I have that problem because I"m still in OSX 10.5 and the Fl=
ash software has moved along to 10.6 - no Flash updates anymore for 10.5 fo=
r Firefox, Chrome or Safari.</div><div><br></div><div>For black rectangles =
that you must see, get download software like Keep It! or Savevid -- these
 will give access to mp4 files you can save to your drive.</div><div><br></=
div><div>BobC</div></div></div></blockquote></td></tr></table>
---873129165-2004938759-1357516630=:81178--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jan  7 00:40:53 2013
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Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 19:40:53 -0500
Message-ID: <CAK7t347pABvDdK=zHaavsdf7URCJN+111V=PkOG2Az+4YruSNA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Multibenders!
From: Jeff Duke <jeffloops@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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--20cf303b40c3de461b04d2a8148f
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

You can try this.

1) Right click on the player > click *Settings* > *Disable*Hardware
Acceleration >
*Refresh* your Internet Browser
2) Try *closing* your browser and *re-load* the video.


good luck

Jeff

On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 6:36 PM, Tim Mungenast <tmungenast@verizon.net>wrote:

>
> dang! i'd love to see this, but lately i haven't been able to open
> ANYTHING on youtube... just a black rectangle that does not respond. anyone
> else having this issue?
>
> Tim Mungenast
> Editor/Writer/Proofreader: www.linkedin.com/in/timmungenast
> Guitarist/Composer/Vocalist: www.reverbnation.com/timmungenast
>
> --- On *Sun, 1/6/13, mark francombe <mark@markfrancombe.com>* wrote:
>
>
> From: mark francombe <mark@markfrancombe.com>
> Subject: Re: Multibenders!
> To: "loopers-delight" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> Date: Sunday, January 6, 2013, 4:03 PM
>
> Thanks Bill, Thats fantastic! That infos a keeper... Straight into
> Evernote!
> I am having a lot o fun already, although the
> installation wasn't completely without issues, and I do need to tweak a bit.
>
> Firstly Im installing on my Baritone, so all the strings are thicker and
> actually I swapped strings this time for some coated shit, (Damn that sales
> guy... Ive been using Ernie Ball for 20 years.. now my finger tips hurt!!!)
>  that I think are EVEN THICKER!!
>
> The upshot was that some of the strings wouldnt go into the bend handles
> slot, wither of them, up OR down. AND the slip wheels under the bridge also
> caused some obstruction. I have to file out my lowest arm slot a bit.
> But still.. the top two arms are working fine and Im using then the same
> as you on the B and G strings, ATM I have them both set to one tone up, and
> have accidentally come across a few pedal steel-ish licks already. My aim
> however is NOT to go all country on ya'all... I was intrigued by the
> multibend idea simply because that is very similar to how I play guitar
> anyway, I form a chord, and then move one finger up or down. (think Velvet
> Underground or Spiritulized).
>
> However, I do like the simplicity of the county sound, that one string
> twangs up to a new tone and creates that shimmer. Even tho my guitar will
> be normal tuning (for a bari) I love how this guy
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcSBKjCyXDU gets some nice variation, just
> out of one chord (hes tuned, I could easily just hold a chord) ...
>
> Also when looping, one doesnt have to think about playing all the time,
> its nice to have some new sounds right there, made in hardware... rather
> than a patch!!
>
> Thanks Bill, gonna check all these out..
>
> M
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 8:51 PM, William Walker <billwalker@baymoon.com<http://mc/compose?to=billwalker@baymoon.com>
> > wrote:
>
> hey Mark, that is awesome. First of all i assume its going on a regular
> guitar? as you know mine is on a lap steel so all of my adjustments are
> based on open tunings of various stripes that i use. With that said I have
> only used two levers , one on the G and one on the B string, and I've only
> set it up for string pulls, usually a 1/2 step or whole step bend on either
> string specific to which tuning I'm using. I have a third lever as well but
> I haven't even installed it yet. As I understand wound strings are better
> for drop tunings, and I believe a bit problematic for up bends. At some
> point i might add the third lever on the high E string as a drop tuner, in
> major tunings to drop to the major or b7. Just getting the hang of 2 levers
> has been occupying my time just fine:-)
> here are some of the tunings I use with the pitch change settings in
> parenthesis
>
> D major tuning   low to high  D,  A, D,  F# (+1/2, for sus, +1, for
> lydian#4), A (+1 for maj 6),  D
> D sus 2 tuning                         D,  A, D,  E  (+1/2, for b3, +1,
> for maj 3rd),  A ( 1/2 for b6, +1 for maj 6),  D
> D minor tuning                        D,  A, D,  F  (+1/2, for maj 3rd,
> +1, for sus 4),  A ( 1/2 for b6, +1 for maj 6),  D
> D sus 4                                     D,  A, D,  G  (+1/2, for b5,
> +1, for 5th),  A (  +1 for maj 6),  D
>  i also use variants of these in C and also in open G and its mutations as
> well, moving to E requires lighter gauge strings than I like to use for lap
> steel playing but i've gotten good results when i did,  i would recommend
> you start with the current gauge of strings you like to use. it seems that
> the heavier the gauge the less up or down maximum range you can get and the
> strings are under heavier tension as well so breaking them is easier and
> keeping the strings fresh particularly on the levered strings is important.
> as a general rule anythin higher tna a major second up bend is riskier for
> string breaking
>  have fun
>  Bill
>
>
>
>
> --
> *Mark Francombe*
> www.markfrancombe.com
> www.ordoabkhao.com
> http://vimeo.com/user825094
> http://www.looop.no
> twitter @markfrancombe
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/
>
>

--20cf303b40c3de461b04d2a8148f
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

You can try this.<br><br><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">1) Ri=
ght click on the player &gt; click <b>Settings</b> &gt; <b>Disable</b> Hard=
ware=A0Acceleration &gt; <b>Refresh</b> your Internet Browser<br>2) Try <b>=
closing</b> your browser and <b>re-load</b> the video.<br>
<br><br>good luck<br><br>Jeff<br></span><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On S=
un, Jan 6, 2013 at 6:36 PM, Tim Mungenast <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:tmungenast@verizon.net" target=3D"_blank">tmungenast@verizon.net</a>=
&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><table border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" cellsp=
acing=3D"0"><tbody><tr><td style=3D"font:inherit" valign=3D"top"><br>dang! =
i&#39;d love to see this, but lately i haven&#39;t been able to open ANYTHI=
NG on youtube... just a black rectangle that does not respond. anyone else =
having this issue?<br>
<br><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-seri=
f">Tim Mungenast</span><br><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;color:rgb(0,0,25=
5);font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif">Editor/Writer/Proofreader:</sp=
an><span style=3D"font-weight:bold"></span> <span style=3D"font-family:verd=
ana,helvetica,sans-serif;font-style:italic"><a href=3D"http://www.linkedin.=
com/in/timmungenast" target=3D"_blank">www.linkedin.com/in/timmungenast</a>=
</span><br style=3D"font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold;color:rgb(0,0,255);font-family:verdana,helv=
etica,sans-serif">Guitarist/Composer/Vocalist:</span> <span style=3D"font-f=
amily:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;font-style:italic"><a href=3D"http://www=
.reverbnation.com/timmungenast" target=3D"_blank">www.reverbnation.com/timm=
ungenast</a></span><br>
<br>--- On <b>Sun, 1/6/13, mark francombe <i>&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mark@mar=
kfrancombe.com" target=3D"_blank">mark@markfrancombe.com</a>&gt;</i></b> wr=
ote:<br><blockquote style=3D"border-left:2px solid rgb(16,16,255);margin-le=
ft:5px;padding-left:5px">
<br>From: mark francombe &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mark@markfrancombe.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank">mark@markfrancombe.com</a>&gt;<br>Subject: Re: Multibenders!<=
br>To: &quot;loopers-delight&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@lo=
opers-delight.com" target=3D"_blank">Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com</a=
>&gt;<br>
Date: Sunday, January 6, 2013, 4:03 PM<br><br><div><div dir=3D"ltr">Thanks =
Bill, Thats fantastic! That infos a keeper... Straight into Evernote!<br>I =
am having a lot o fun already,=A0although=A0the installation=A0wasn&#39;t=
=A0completely without issues, and I do need to tweak a bit.<div>


<br></div><div>Firstly Im installing on my Baritone, so all the strings are=
 thicker and actually I swapped strings this time for some coated shit, (Da=
mn that sales guy... Ive been using Ernie Ball for 20 years.. now my finger=
 tips hurt!!!) =A0that I think are EVEN THICKER!!</div>


<div><br></div><div>The upshot was that some of the strings wouldnt go into=
 the bend handles slot, wither of them, up OR down. AND the slip wheels und=
er the bridge also caused some obstruction. I have to file out my lowest ar=
m slot a bit.</div>


<div>But still.. the top two arms are working fine and Im using then the sa=
me as you on the B and G strings, ATM I have them both set to one tone up, =
and have accidentally come across a few pedal steel-ish licks already. My a=
im however is NOT to go all country on ya&#39;all... I was intrigued by the=
 multibend idea simply because that is very=A0similar=A0to how I play guita=
r anyway, I form a chord, and then move one finger up or down. (think Velve=
t Underground or Spiritulized).</div>


<div><br></div><div>However, I do like the simplicity of the county sound, =
that one string twangs up to a new tone and creates that shimmer. Even tho =
my guitar will be normal tuning (for a bari) I love how this guy</div>


<div><a rel=3D"nofollow" href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DVcSBKjCyX=
DU" target=3D"_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DVcSBKjCyXDU</a> gets=
 some nice variation, just out of one chord (hes tuned, I could easily just=
 hold a chord) ...<br>
</div><div>

<br></div><div>Also when looping, one doesnt have to think about playing al=
l the time, its nice to have some new sounds right there, made in hardware.=
.. rather than a patch!!</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks Bill, gonna check =
all these out..</div>


<div><br></div><div>M</div><div><br></div></div><div><br><br><div>On Sun, J=
an 6, 2013 at 8:51 PM, William Walker <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a rel=3D"nofol=
low" href=3D"http://mc/compose?to=3Dbillwalker@baymoon.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">billwalker@baymoon.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>


<blockquote style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-l=
eft:1ex">hey Mark, that is awesome. First of all i assume its going on a re=
gular guitar? as you know mine is on a lap steel so all of my adjustments a=
re based on open tunings of various stripes that i use. With that said I ha=
ve only used two levers , one on the G and one on the B string, and I&#39;v=
e only set it up for string pulls, usually a 1/2 step or whole step bend on=
 either string specific to which tuning I&#39;m using. I have a third lever=
 as well but I haven&#39;t even installed it yet. As I understand wound str=
ings are better for drop tunings, and I believe a bit problematic for up be=
nds. At some point i might add the third lever on the high E string as a dr=
op tuner, in major tunings to drop to the major or b7. Just getting the han=
g of 2 levers has been occupying my time just fine:-)<br>



here are some of the tunings I use with the pitch change settings in parent=
hesis<br>
<br>
D major tuning =A0 low to high =A0D, =A0A, D, =A0F# (+1/2, for sus, +1, for=
 lydian#4), A (+1 for maj 6), =A0D<br>
D sus 2 tuning =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 D, =A0A, D, =
=A0E =A0(+1/2, for b3, +1, for maj 3rd), =A0A ( 1/2 for b6, +1 for maj 6), =
=A0D<br>
D minor tuning =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0D, =A0A, D, =
=A0F =A0(+1/2, for maj 3rd, +1, for sus 4), =A0A ( 1/2 for b6, +1 for maj 6=
), =A0D<br>
D sus 4 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=
 =A0 D, =A0A, D, =A0G =A0(+1/2, for b5, +1, for 5th), =A0A ( =A0+1 for maj =
6), =A0D<br>
=A0i also use variants of these in C and also in open G and its mutations a=
s well, moving to E requires lighter gauge strings than I like to use for l=
ap steel playing but i&#39;ve gotten good results when i did, =A0i would re=
commend you start with the current gauge of strings you like to use. it see=
ms that the heavier the gauge the less up or down maximum range you can get=
 and the strings are under heavier tension as well so breaking them is easi=
er and keeping the strings fresh particularly on the levered strings is imp=
ortant. as a general rule anythin higher tna a major second up bend is risk=
ier for string breaking<br>



=A0have fun<br>
=A0Bill<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=
=3D"#888888"><div><br></div>-- <br><i style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-ser=
if;color:rgb(255,255,255);background-color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font style=3D"font-=
family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif" size=3D"4"><u>Mark Francombe</u></font></i>=
<br>


<font size=3D"1"><a rel=3D"nofollow" style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"h=
ttp://www.markfrancombe.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.markfrancombe.com</a><b=
r style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)"><a rel=3D"nofollow" style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,=
51)" href=3D"http://www.ordoabkhao.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.ordoabkhao.c=
om</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)">


<a rel=3D"nofollow" style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://vimeo.com/u=
ser825094" target=3D"_blank">http://vimeo.com/user825094</a><br style=3D"co=
lor:rgb(51,0,51)"><a rel=3D"nofollow" style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"=
http://www.looop.no/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.looop.no</a><br>


twitter @markfrancombe<br><a rel=3D"nofollow" href=3D"http://www.flickr.com=
/photos/24478662@N00/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478=
662@N00/</a><br></font>
</font></span></div>
</div></blockquote></td></tr></tbody></table></blockquote></div><br>

--20cf303b40c3de461b04d2a8148f--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jan  7 00:50:26 2013
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From: "Emile Tobenfeld (a.k.a Dr. T)" <emile@foryourhead.com>
Subject: New Language Collaborative  01.12 Moving with the Light 01.19
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Hi folks,

Visual Music LIVE continues at Outpost 186 on Saturday  at 8 PM.  -- 
I'll be doing video improvisations with three old friends who have 
played together for years.

Doctor T Video improvisations with

New Language Collaborative

Eric Zinman, piano
Glynis Lomon cello, aquasonic, and voice
Syd Smart drums.

Outpost 186, 186 Hampshire St (in the back), near Inman Square, Cambridge MA

Suggested donation,  $10

617.876.0860 ~ all ages ~ 
<http://www.zeitgeist-outpost.org>http://www.zeitgeist-outpost.org

Many of my finished video pieces (both studio and live) can be seen 
at http://www.youtube.com/Tobenfeld.

and upcoming in Lowell on Jan 19

Moving with the Light is an event at which contact improvisation and 
other improvised movement, music, and video interact as equals -- 
each responding to and respectful of the others. The event will 
happen on the third Saturday of every month, at 119 Gallery in 
Lowell. 119 Gallery is the nicest space I've ever performed at and 
has a movement--friendly hardwood floor.

with
Doctor T. - Video (See samples at http://www.youtube.com/Tobenfeld)
Eric Crawley-- Harpejji (Sounds as beautiful as it looks at 
http://www.marcodi.com/sights-sounds/pictures/)
Glynis Lomon -- cello, aquasonic, and voice
YOU -- movement.

Eric and Glynis will play music suitable for contact improvisation 
and other forms of gentle movement, while I improvise imagery and all 
three of us react to the dancers as well as to each other.

Saturday Jan 19 at 8 PM
119 Gallery
119 Chelmsford St
Lowell, MA 01851
Five minutes from the Lowell Connector, with ample on-street parking 
and an amazing Cambodian restaurant next door.
10 minute walk from the T, but you will need a ride back.
If you need a ride or can offer one, email me and I'll try to hook you up.
http://www.119gallery.org/
Sliding scale -- suggested donation $10.00

-- 
"I rang a silent bell ..."  -- Robert Hunter
"... cast your dancing spell my way, I promise to go under it" -- Bob Dylan

My photography can be viewed at 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/22231918@N06/collections/72157603627170351/

My videos can be viewed at http://www.youtube.com/Tobenfeld



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Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 17:10:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Tim Mungenast <tmungenast@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Multibenders!
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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Thanks, amigo.

Tim Mungenast
Editor/Writer/Proofreader: www.linkedin.com/in/timmungenast
Guitarist/Composer/Vocalist: www.reverbnation.com/timmungenast

--- On Sun, 1/6/13, Jeff Duke <jeffloops@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Jeff Duke <jeffloops@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Multibenders!
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Date: Sunday, January 6, 2013, 7:40 PM

You can try this.

1) Right click on the player > click Settings > Disable Hardware=A0Accelera=
tion > Refresh your Internet Browser
2) Try closing your browser and re-load the video.
=0A

good luck

Jeff

On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 6:36 PM, Tim Mungenast <tmungenast@verizon.net> wrot=
e:
=0A
dang! i'd love to see this, but lately i haven't been able to open ANYTHING=
 on youtube... just a black rectangle that does not respond. anyone else ha=
ving this issue?
=0A
Tim Mungenast
Editor/Writer/Proofreader: www.linkedin.com/in/timmungenast
=0AGuitarist/Composer/Vocalist: www.reverbnation.com/timmungenast
=0A
--- On Sun, 1/6/13, mark francombe <mark@markfrancombe.com> wrote:
=0A
From: mark francombe <mark@markfrancombe.com>
Subject: Re: Multibenders!
To: "loopers-delight" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
=0ADate: Sunday, January 6, 2013, 4:03 PM

Thanks Bill, Thats fantastic! That infos a keeper... Straight into Evernote=
!
I am having a lot o fun already,=A0although=A0the installation=A0wasn't=A0c=
ompletely without issues, and I do need to tweak a bit.=0A=0A=0A
Firstly Im installing on my Baritone, so all the strings are thicker and ac=
tually I swapped strings this time for some coated shit, (Damn that sales g=
uy... Ive been using Ernie Ball for 20 years.. now my finger tips hurt!!!) =
=A0that I think are EVEN THICKER!!=0A=0A=0A
The upshot was that some of the strings wouldnt go into the bend handles sl=
ot, wither of them, up OR down. AND the slip wheels under the bridge also c=
aused some obstruction. I have to file out my lowest arm slot a bit.=0A=0A=
=0ABut still.. the top two arms are working fine and Im using then the same=
 as you on the B and G strings, ATM I have them both set to one tone up, an=
d have accidentally come across a few pedal steel-ish licks already. My aim=
 however is NOT to go all country on ya'all... I was intrigued by the multi=
bend idea simply because that is very=A0similar=A0to how I play guitar anyw=
ay, I form a chord, and then move one finger up or down. (think Velvet Unde=
rground or Spiritulized).=0A=0A=0A
However, I do like the simplicity of the county sound, that one string twan=
gs up to a new tone and creates that shimmer. Even tho my guitar will be no=
rmal tuning (for a bari) I love how this guy=0A=0A=0Ahttp://www.youtube.com=
/watch?v=3DVcSBKjCyXDU gets some nice variation, just out of one chord (hes=
 tuned, I could easily just hold a chord) ...
=0A=0A=0A
Also when looping, one doesnt have to think about playing all the time, its=
 nice to have some new sounds right there, made in hardware... rather than =
a patch!!
Thanks Bill, gonna check all these out..=0A=0A=0A
M


On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 8:51 PM, William Walker <billwalker@baymoon.com> wro=
te:
=0A=0A=0Ahey Mark, that is awesome. First of all i assume its going on a re=
gular guitar? as you know mine is on a lap steel so all of my adjustments a=
re based on open tunings of various stripes that i use. With that said I ha=
ve only used two levers , one on the G and one on the B string, and I've on=
ly set it up for string pulls, usually a 1/2 step or whole step bend on eit=
her string specific to which tuning I'm using. I have a third lever as well=
 but I haven't even installed it yet. As I understand wound strings are bet=
ter for drop tunings, and I believe a bit problematic for up bends. At some=
 point i might add the third lever on the high E string as a drop tuner, in=
 major tunings to drop to the major or b7. Just getting the hang of 2 lever=
s has been occupying my time just fine:-)
=0A=0A=0A=0Ahere are some of the tunings I use with the pitch change settin=
gs in parenthesis
=0A
=0AD major tuning =A0 low to high =A0D, =A0A, D, =A0F# (+1/2, for sus, +1, =
for lydian#4), A (+1 for maj 6), =A0D
=0AD sus 2 tuning =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 D, =A0A, =
D, =A0E =A0(+1/2, for b3, +1, for maj 3rd), =A0A ( 1/2 for b6, +1 for maj 6=
), =A0D
=0AD minor tuning =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0D, =A0A, D=
, =A0F =A0(+1/2, for maj 3rd, +1, for sus 4), =A0A ( 1/2 for b6, +1 for maj=
 6), =A0D
=0AD sus 4 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 D, =A0A, D, =A0G =A0(+1/2, for b5, +1, for 5th), =A0A ( =A0+1 for m=
aj 6), =A0D
=0A=A0i also use variants of these in C and also in open G and its mutation=
s as well, moving to E requires lighter gauge strings than I like to use fo=
r lap steel playing but i've gotten good results when i did, =A0i would rec=
ommend you start with the current gauge of strings you like to use. it seem=
s that the heavier the gauge the less up or down maximum range you can get =
and the strings are under heavier tension as well so breaking them is easie=
r and keeping the strings fresh particularly on the levered strings is impo=
rtant. as a general rule anythin higher tna a major second up bend is riski=
er for string breaking
=0A=0A=0A=0A=A0have fun
=0A=A0Bill
=0A
=0A


--=20
Mark Francombe
=0A=0A=0Awww.markfrancombe.com
www.ordoabkhao.com
=0A=0A=0Ahttp://vimeo.com/user825094
http://www.looop.no
=0A=0A=0Atwitter @markfrancombe
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/
=0A=0A
=0A
--1023692596-1932946492-1357521002=:91918
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td valign=3D"=
top" style=3D"font: inherit;"><br>Thanks, amigo.<br><br><span style=3D"font=
-weight:bold;font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;">Tim Mungenast</sp=
an><br><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;color:rgb(0, 0, 255);font-family:ver=
dana, helvetica, sans-serif;">Editor/Writer/Proofreader:</span><span style=
=3D"font-weight:bold;"></span> <span style=3D"font-family:verdana, helvetic=
a, sans-serif;font-style:italic;">www.linkedin.com/in/timmungenast</span><b=
r style=3D"font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font=
-weight:bold;color:rgb(0, 0, 255);font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-seri=
f;">Guitarist/Composer/Vocalist:</span> <span style=3D"font-family:verdana,=
 helvetica, sans-serif;font-style:italic;">www.reverbnation.com/timmungenas=
t</span><br><br>--- On <b>Sun, 1/6/13, Jeff Duke <i>&lt;jeffloops@gmail.com=
&gt;</i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote style=3D"border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, =
16, 255);
 margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br>From: Jeff Duke &lt;jeffloops@gm=
ail.com&gt;<br>Subject: Re: Multibenders!<br>To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-de=
light.com<br>Date: Sunday, January 6, 2013, 7:40 PM<br><br><div id=3D"yiv13=
16929955">You can try this.<br><br><span style=3D"font-family:arial, sans-s=
erif;">1) Right click on the player &gt; click <b>Settings</b> &gt; <b>Disa=
ble</b> Hardware&nbsp;Acceleration &gt; <b>Refresh</b> your Internet Browse=
r<br>2) Try <b>closing</b> your browser and <b>re-load</b> the video.<br>=
=0A<br><br>good luck<br><br>Jeff<br></span><br><div class=3D"yiv1316929955g=
mail_quote">On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 6:36 PM, Tim Mungenast <span dir=3D"ltr"=
>&lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:tmungenast@verizon.net" target=
=3D"_blank" href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3Dtmungenast@verizon.net">tmungenast@ver=
izon.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>=0A<blockquote class=3D"yiv1316929955gmai=
l_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left=
:1ex;"><table border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0"><tbody><tr><=
td style=3D"font:inherit;" valign=3D"top"><br>dang! i'd love to see this, b=
ut lately i haven't been able to open ANYTHING on youtube... just a black r=
ectangle that does not respond. anyone else having this issue?<br>=0A<br><s=
pan style=3D"font-weight:bold;font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;">=
Tim Mungenast</span><br><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;color:rgb(0,0,255);=
font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;">Editor/Writer/Proofreader:</sp=
an><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;"></span> <span style=3D"font-family:ver=
dana, helvetica, sans-serif;font-style:italic;"><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=
=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.linkedin.com/in/timmungenast">www.linkedin.c=
om/in/timmungenast</a></span><br style=3D"font-family:verdana, helvetica, s=
ans-serif;">=0A<span style=3D"font-weight:bold;color:rgb(0,0,255);font-fami=
ly:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;">Guitarist/Composer/Vocalist:</span> <sp=
an style=3D"font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;font-style:italic;">=
<a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.reverbnation.com/t=
immungenast">www.reverbnation.com/timmungenast</a></span><br>=0A<br>--- On =
<b>Sun, 1/6/13, mark francombe <i>&lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto=
:mark@markfrancombe.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3Dmark@ma=
rkfrancombe.com">mark@markfrancombe.com</a>&gt;</i></b> wrote:<br><blockquo=
te style=3D"border-left:2px solid rgb(16,16,255);margin-left:5px;padding-le=
ft:5px;">=0A<br>From: mark francombe &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mai=
lto:mark@markfrancombe.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3Dmark=
@markfrancombe.com">mark@markfrancombe.com</a>&gt;<br>Subject: Re: Multiben=
ders!<br>To: "loopers-delight" &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:Lo=
opers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"/mc/compose?to=
=3DLoopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=
</a>&gt;<br>=0ADate: Sunday, January 6, 2013, 4:03 PM<br><br><div><div dir=
=3D"ltr">Thanks Bill, Thats fantastic! That infos a keeper... Straight into=
 Evernote!<br>I am having a lot o fun already,&nbsp;although&nbsp;the insta=
llation&nbsp;wasn't&nbsp;completely without issues, and I do need to tweak =
a bit.<div>=0A=0A=0A<br></div><div>Firstly Im installing on my Baritone, so=
 all the strings are thicker and actually I swapped strings this time for s=
ome coated shit, (Damn that sales guy... Ive been using Ernie Ball for 20 y=
ears.. now my finger tips hurt!!!) &nbsp;that I think are EVEN THICKER!!</d=
iv>=0A=0A=0A<div><br></div><div>The upshot was that some of the strings wou=
ldnt go into the bend handles slot, wither of them, up OR down. AND the sli=
p wheels under the bridge also caused some obstruction. I have to file out =
my lowest arm slot a bit.</div>=0A=0A=0A<div>But still.. the top two arms a=
re working fine and Im using then the same as you on the B and G strings, A=
TM I have them both set to one tone up, and have accidentally come across a=
 few pedal steel-ish licks already. My aim however is NOT to go all country=
 on ya'all... I was intrigued by the multibend idea simply because that is =
very&nbsp;similar&nbsp;to how I play guitar anyway, I form a chord, and the=
n move one finger up or down. (think Velvet Underground or Spiritulized).</=
div>=0A=0A=0A<div><br></div><div>However, I do like the simplicity of the c=
ounty sound, that one string twangs up to a new tone and creates that shimm=
er. Even tho my guitar will be normal tuning (for a bari) I love how this g=
uy</div>=0A=0A=0A<div><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://=
www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DVcSBKjCyXDU">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DVcS=
BKjCyXDU</a> gets some nice variation, just out of one chord (hes tuned, I =
could easily just hold a chord) ...<br>=0A</div><div>=0A=0A<br></div><div>A=
lso when looping, one doesnt have to think about playing all the time, its =
nice to have some new sounds right there, made in hardware... rather than a=
 patch!!</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks Bill, gonna check all these out..<=
/div>=0A=0A=0A<div><br></div><div>M</div><div><br></div></div><div><br><br>=
<div>On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 8:51 PM, William Walker <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<=
a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://mc/compose?to=3Dbillwal=
ker@baymoon.com">billwalker@baymoon.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>=0A=0A=0A<=
blockquote style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-le=
ft:1ex;">hey Mark, that is awesome. First of all i assume its going on a re=
gular guitar? as you know mine is on a lap steel so all of my adjustments a=
re based on open tunings of various stripes that i use. With that said I ha=
ve only used two levers , one on the G and one on the B string, and I've on=
ly set it up for string pulls, usually a 1/2 step or whole step bend on eit=
her string specific to which tuning I'm using. I have a third lever as well=
 but I haven't even installed it yet. As I understand wound strings are bet=
ter for drop tunings, and I believe a bit problematic for up bends. At some=
 point i might add the third lever on the high E string as a drop tuner, in=
 major tunings to drop to the major or b7. Just getting the hang of 2 lever=
s has been occupying my time just fine:-)<br>=0A=0A=0A=0Ahere are some of t=
he tunings I use with the pitch change settings in parenthesis<br>=0A<br>=
=0AD major tuning &nbsp; low to high &nbsp;D, &nbsp;A, D, &nbsp;F# (+1/2, f=
or sus, +1, for lydian#4), A (+1 for maj 6), &nbsp;D<br>=0AD sus 2 tuning &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; D, &nbsp;A, D, &nbsp;E &nbsp;(+1/2, for b3, +1, for maj 3rd), &nbsp=
;A ( 1/2 for b6, +1 for maj 6), &nbsp;D<br>=0AD minor tuning &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;D, &nb=
sp;A, D, &nbsp;F &nbsp;(+1/2, for maj 3rd, +1, for sus 4), &nbsp;A ( 1/2 fo=
r b6, +1 for maj 6), &nbsp;D<br>=0AD sus 4 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; D, &nbsp;A, D, &nbsp;G &nbsp;(+1/2, for b5, +1, for 5th)=
, &nbsp;A ( &nbsp;+1 for maj 6), &nbsp;D<br>=0A&nbsp;i also use variants of=
 these in C and also in open G and its mutations as well, moving to E requi=
res lighter gauge strings than I like to use for lap steel playing but i've=
 gotten good results when i did, &nbsp;i would recommend you start with the=
 current gauge of strings you like to use. it seems that the heavier the ga=
uge the less up or down maximum range you can get and the strings are under=
 heavier tension as well so breaking them is easier and keeping the strings=
 fresh particularly on the levered strings is important. as a general rule =
anythin higher tna a major second up bend is riskier for string breaking<br=
>=0A=0A=0A=0A&nbsp;have fun<br>=0A&nbsp;Bill<br>=0A<br>=0A</blockquote></di=
v><br><br clear=3D"all"><span class=3D"yiv1316929955HOEnZb"><font color=3D"=
#888888"><div><br></div>-- <br><i style=3D"font-family:verdana, sans-serif;=
color:rgb(255,255,255);background-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><font style=3D"font-fa=
mily:trebuchet ms, sans-serif;" size=3D"4"><u>Mark Francombe</u></font></i>=
<br>=0A=0A=0A<font size=3D"1"><a rel=3D"nofollow" style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,5=
1);" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.markfrancombe.com/">www.markfranc=
ombe.com</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51);"><a rel=3D"nofollow" style=3D"=
color:rgb(51,0,51);" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.ordoabkhao.com/">=
www.ordoabkhao.com</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51);">=0A=0A=0A<a rel=3D"=
nofollow" style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51);" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://vi=
meo.com/user825094">http://vimeo.com/user825094</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(5=
1,0,51);"><a rel=3D"nofollow" style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51);" target=3D"_blan=
k" href=3D"http://www.looop.no/">http://www.looop.no</a><br>=0A=0A=0Atwitte=
r @markfrancombe<br><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://ww=
w.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/">http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N0=
0/</a><br></font>=0A</font></span></div>=0A</div></blockquote></td></tr></t=
body></table></blockquote></div><br>=0A</div></blockquote></td></tr></table=
>
--1023692596-1932946492-1357521002=:91918--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jan  7 06:25:45 2013
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On 1/6/2013 3:57 PM, Tim Mungenast wrote:
>
> thanks for weighing in... i have a one-year-old e-machine laptop 
> running the wretched windows 7 via firefox,
>

*For what it's worth,  Google Chrome seems to be a much better browser 
than Firebox.
I finally migrated earlier this year and am very happy I did.


*

--------------010306070706000907090706
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<html>
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    <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
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  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/6/2013 3:57 PM, Tim Mungenast
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:%3C1357516630.81178.YahooMailClassic@web84513.mail.ne1.yahoo.com%3E"
      type="cite">
      <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
        <tbody>
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            <td style="font: inherit;" valign="top"><br>
              thanks for weighing in... i have a one-year-old e-machine
              laptop running the wretched windows 7 via firefox, </td>
          </tr>
        </tbody>
      </table>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <b>For what it's worth,&nbsp; Google Chrome seems to be a much better
      browser than Firebox.<br>
      I finally migrated earlier this year and am very happy I did.<br>
      <br>
      <br>
    </b>
  </body>
</html>

--------------010306070706000907090706--

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Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 07:51:56 -0800 (PST)
From: Tim Mungenast <tmungenast@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Multibenders!
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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---20871971-817191963-1357573916=:83874
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

=A0
Thanks, Rick! I always appreciate your wisdom on this and any other topic. =
:-)

Tim Mungenast
Editor/Writer/Proofreader: www.linkedin.com/in/timmungenast
Guitarist/Composer/Vocalist: www.reverbnation.com/timmungenast

--- On Mon, 1/7/13, Rick Walker <looppool@cruzio.com> wrote:

From: Rick Walker <looppool@cruzio.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Multibenders!
To: "Tim Mungenast" <tmungenast@verizon.net>, "LOOPERS DELIGHT (posting)" <=
Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Date: Monday, January 7, 2013, 1:25 AM

=0A  =0A=0A    =0A  =0A    On 1/6/2013 3:57 PM, Tim Mungenast=0A      wrote=
:
=0A    =0A    =0A      =0A        =0A          =0A           =20
=0A              thanks for weighing in... i have a one-year-old e-machine=
=0A              laptop running the wretched windows 7 via firefox, =0A    =
      =0A        =0A      =0A    =0A   =20
=0A    For what it's worth,=A0 Google Chrome seems to be a much better=0A  =
    browser than Firebox.
=0A      I finally migrated earlier this year and am very happy I did.
=0A     =20
=0A     =20
=0A    =0A  =0A
---20871971-817191963-1357573916=:83874
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td valign=3D"=
top" style=3D"font: inherit;">&nbsp;<br>Thanks, Rick! I always appreciate y=
our wisdom on this and any other topic. :-)<br><br><span style=3D"font-weig=
ht: bold; font-family: verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;">Tim Mungenast</span><=
br><span style=3D"font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255); font-family: ve=
rdana,helvetica,sans-serif;">Editor/Writer/Proofreader:</span><span style=
=3D"font-weight: bold;"></span> <span style=3D"font-family: verdana,helveti=
ca,sans-serif; font-style: italic;">www.linkedin.com/in/timmungenast</span>=
<br style=3D"font-family: verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style=3D"fon=
t-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 255); font-family: verdana,helvetica,sans-=
serif;">Guitarist/Composer/Vocalist:</span> <span style=3D"font-family: ver=
dana,helvetica,sans-serif; font-style: italic;">www.reverbnation.com/timmun=
genast</span><br><br>--- On <b>Mon, 1/7/13, Rick Walker <i>&lt;looppool@cru=
zio.com&gt;</i></b>
 wrote:<br><blockquote style=3D"border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); ma=
rgin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br>From: Rick Walker &lt;looppool@cruz=
io.com&gt;<br>Subject: Re: Re: Multibenders!<br>To: "Tim Mungenast" &lt;tmu=
ngenast@verizon.net&gt;, "LOOPERS DELIGHT (posting)" &lt;Loopers-Delight@lo=
opers-delight.com&gt;<br>Date: Monday, January 7, 2013, 1:25 AM<br><br><div=
 id=3D"yiv201820870">=0A  =0A=0A    =0A  <div>=0A    <div class=3D"yiv20182=
0870moz-cite-prefix">On 1/6/2013 3:57 PM, Tim Mungenast=0A      wrote:<br>=
=0A    </div>=0A    <blockquote type=3D"cite">=0A      <table border=3D"0" =
cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0">=0A        <tbody>=0A          <tr>=0A =
           <td style=3D"font: inherit;" valign=3D"top"><br>=0A             =
 thanks for weighing in... i have a one-year-old e-machine=0A              =
laptop running the wretched windows 7 via firefox, </td>=0A          </tr>=
=0A        </tbody>=0A      </table>=0A    </blockquote>=0A    <br>=0A    <=
b>For what it's worth,&nbsp; Google Chrome seems to be a much better=0A    =
  browser than Firebox.<br>=0A      I finally migrated earlier this year an=
d am very happy I did.<br>=0A      <br>=0A      <br>=0A    </b>=0A  </div>=
=0A</div></blockquote></td></tr></table>
---20871971-817191963-1357573916=:83874--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jan  8 20:12:04 2013
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Message-ID: <CAATUM6eSb=wj4dO4mf_CM7iZBfZg7Duei_m3jS91MnZ1mXbs4Q@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Tips and Tricks of Gear Organization
From: Kevin Cheli-Colando <billowhead@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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Its been quite here for a bit so I thought I'd stir things up with a question.

Since most of us are probably guilty of complicating the process of
making music to an absurd degree (just another couple of pitch
shifters on send three and this should be perfect) I thought I'd ask
what kinds of tricks people have come up with to A) keep their studio
space as clutter free and productive as possible B) make set-up and
tear down of gear manageable and C) whatever else works for you and
makes your musical life better (materially speaking).

As for myself, I've been having a great time playing over at friends
and wanted to stream line things so it was as easy as possible to set
and and tear down so I had as few excuses for wanting to haul stuff
around.  To this end, the latest development was to plug everything in
and then, using electrical tape, bind all the chords that went to a
single box together on one end (ie my VG 8 has a guitar send and two
returns and two outs so these five got bundled as one so I can drop
that on the floor and plug everything into the box with little hassle
in sorting cables and the like).  Now my set up and tear down is about
5 minutes or less (with a VG, Wah, 2 Multi-FX units and five
expression pedals).

Also, those metal binder clips make good cable hangers in the studio.

Anyone else?

Kevin

-- 
Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and to have a
form. That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all trouble.

- Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jan  9 10:34:27 2013
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Subject: Re: Tips and Tricks of Gear Organization
From: Ed Durbrow <edurbrow@sea.plala.or.jp>
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I've seen, and I've tried using silicone caulking to bind plugs to jacks =
on the back of patch bays. Works fine if you don't plan to change =
anything.

On Jan 9, 2013, at 5:12 AM, Kevin Cheli-Colando <billowhead@gmail.com> =
wrote:

> Its been quite here for a bit so I thought I'd stir things up with a =
question.
>=20
> Since most of us are probably guilty of complicating the process of
> making music to an absurd degree (just another couple of pitch
> shifters on send three and this should be perfect) I thought I'd ask
> what kinds of tricks people have come up with to A) keep their studio
> space as clutter free and productive as possible B) make set-up and
> tear down of gear manageable and C) whatever else works for you and
> makes your musical life better (materially speaking).
>=20
> As for myself, I've been having a great time playing over at friends
> and wanted to stream line things so it was as easy as possible to set
> and and tear down so I had as few excuses for wanting to haul stuff
> around.  To this end, the latest development was to plug everything in
> and then, using electrical tape, bind all the chords that went to a
> single box together on one end (ie my VG 8 has a guitar send and two
> returns and two outs so these five got bundled as one so I can drop
> that on the floor and plug everything into the box with little hassle
> in sorting cables and the like).  Now my set up and tear down is about
> 5 minutes or less (with a VG, Wah, 2 Multi-FX units and five
> expression pedals).
>=20
> Also, those metal binder clips make good cable hangers in the studio.
>=20
> Anyone else?
>=20
> Kevin
>=20
> --=20
> Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and to have =
a
> form. That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all =
trouble.
>=20
> - Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)
>=20

Ed Durbrow
Saitama, Japan
http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=3Dwatch
http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/



From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jan  9 14:04:01 2013
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Subject: new tc electronic looper
From: eib halimski <halimzainal@gmail.com>
To: Loopers Delight <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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- 4 minutes loop time
- unlimited overdub
- undo/redo

all in one small box seems whoasome

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZCok4OYVOk

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- 4 minutes loop time<div>- unlimited overdub</div><div>- undo/redo</div><d=
iv><br></div><div>all in one small box seems whoasome=A0</div><div><br></di=
v><div><a href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DIZCok4OYVOk">http://www.=
youtube.com/watch?v=3DIZCok4OYVOk</a></div>

--00151747c154be9f9a04d2db88ee--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jan  9 14:36:39 2013
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Subject: My First Release
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 09:36:48 -0500
Organization: EarthLight Productions
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After years of performing online, Stephen Goodman's first album release =
on Bandcamp, "No Matter Where You Go..." for downloadable purchase. $8 =
for 3-1/2 hours of live ambient music, including a bonus track.

http://stephenpgoodman1.bandcamp.com/ 
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<HTML><HEAD></HEAD>
<BODY dir=3Dltr>
<DIV dir=3Dltr>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: =
12pt"><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma><SPAN=20
style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left; LINE-HEIGHT: 18px; WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: =
none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; LETTER-SPACING: normal; DISPLAY: inline =
!important; FONT-FAMILY: ; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; FLOAT: none; =
COLOR: ; WORD-SPACING: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"><FONT=20
color=3D#333333><FONT style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9.8pt">After years of =
performing online,=20
Stephen Goodman's first album release on Bandcamp, "No Matter Where You =
Go..."=20
for downloadable purchase. $8 for 3-1/2 hours of live ambient music, =
including a=20
bonus track.</FONT></FONT></SPAN><FONT style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9.8pt"><BR=20
style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left; WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; =
BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; LETTER-SPACING: =
normal; FONT: 13px/18px 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, =
sans-serif; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); =
WORD-SPACING: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"><BR=20
style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left; WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; =
BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; LETTER-SPACING: =
normal; FONT: 13px/18px 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, =
sans-serif; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); =
WORD-SPACING: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"></FONT></FONT><A=20
style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left; LINE-HEIGHT: 18px; WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: =
none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; LETTER-SPACING: normal; FONT-FAMILY: ; =
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0px; TEXT-DECORATION: ; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"=20
onmouseover=3D"LinkshimAsyncLink.swap(this, "=20
onclick=3D"LinkshimAsyncLink.referrer_log(this, "=20
href=3D"http://stephenpgoodman1.bandcamp.com/" rel=3D"nofollow nofollow" =

target=3D_blank ?);? http:\ stephenpgoodman1.bandcamp.com\ ?, ?https:\ \ =

www.facebook.com\ si\ ajax\ l\ render_linkshim_log\=20
?u=3D'http\u00253A\u00252F\u00252Fstephenpgoodman1.bandcamp.com\u00252F&a=
mp;h=3DiAQFRgzwy&amp;s=3D1");"'><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma><FONT style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9.8pt"=20
color=3D#3b5998>http://stephenpgoodman1.bandcamp.com/</FONT></FONT></A>=20
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; =
COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: =
none">
<DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jan  9 19:09:44 2013
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Subject: Re: new tc electronic looper
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 11:09:39 -0800
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On Jan 9, 2013, at 6:04 AM, eib halimski wrote:

> - 4 minutes loop time
> - unlimited overdub
> - undo/redo
>=20
> all in one small box seems whoasome=20
>=20
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DIZCok4OYVOk

Nice =97 and for anyone without a looper it's probably a good choice.

I think about how I seem to be working these days and I think I could go =
for this if it offered the following: stereo and an ability to set the =
feedback (e.g., by holding down the button and turning the knob). If =
there feedback setting were "perfect" for me I might not even care about =
that. A little stereo looper pedal could sit at the end of my chain and =
cover just about everything I care about.

Give me some sort of sync cable support =97 see EDP brother sync =97 and =
I'll buy two (though please do this with the same flexibility as the EDP =
where sync means that the loop lengths are coordinated not that the =
start and end points have to align).

And then there is what may be the "fatal" flaw: it looks like record =
goes to play rather than overdub. (That could be acceptable if a long =
press at the end of record created an overdub overlap since mostly I'm =
worried about delay trails.)

----

I was an EDP man for quite a while. I tried the Repeater. I tried the =
Looperlative. But the EDP was fluid. I would probably still be using the =
EDP were it not for not wanting to carry around a rack and missing =
stereo support which meant that I needed not just a rack but a rack and =
a mixer or I needed to throw a MIDI foot controller into the process =
with two EDPs.

The features I most miss from the EDP:

* Multiply
* The ability to copy one loop into another, modify the second, and then =
come back to the first
* Freedom to start and stop more operations at arbitrary times while =
still preserving synchronization

My first CD was recorded with a single EDP.

Shortly after that I went the multiple EDP route with it settling into =
more or less a set up where one would mostly be about recording a =
"pulse" to underly the piece and the other would often be used as a =
long, synchronized delay line =97 often at 0% feedback. I used to want a =
way to evolve away from the pulse and then back to the pulse, but that =
almost always seems to get complicated. Since then I've looked for ways =
to do this without the need for a rack and mixers.

I played Y2KX using just the looper in the Line6 M13. I have to say that =
Line6 did manage to nail the core looping feature set quite well with =
lack of stereo being the chief failing. (And lack of MIDI/tempo sync =
given that the units have so much else that does do sync. They could =
just use the loop length to tweak the results of tap tempo and send MIDI =
clock and have a win for those of willing to start the drum machine =
after the loop is recorded.)

I have a Boomerang III now. The sound quality, switch feel, and size are =
great though the size would take a serious hit if I were to add a =
sidecar and a pedal for volume or decay. (The sidecar with a built in =
roller would have been a clear win.) The problem for me with the =
Boomerang is that it really lives to be a phrase sampler. It's a great =
looper if you want to record verse/chorus/bridge and play against them. =
To do the sort of looping I was doing on the EDP, it's a pain and Mike =
Nelson has gotten a lot of long emails from me discussing how to fix =
this.

----

But if TC did a Ditto+ (it doesn't even need to be a "Ditto Pro"), I =
could easily see shifting to it. My feature list:

* Stereo =97 they can go to the size of the Flashback and other Tone =
Print pedals.

* Feedback control =97 two knobs instead of one. (I can think of =
interesting uses for more knobs in a Flashback pedal sized device, but =
I'm trying to stay minimal.)

* Exiting record closes the loop on the press but overdubs until the =
release. Or they need a switch to control whether record goes into play =
or overdub.

* Something Brother Sync like so that I can hook up a couple of these. =
(Even cooler if they had other pedals that also could connect on a sync =
buss. MIDI works but MIDI cables are awkwardly big.)

-----

Instead, they give me four minutes of loop time =97 who is going to =
remember where we were five minutes ago? =97 probably because adding =
more memory really doesn't require any extra design work.

Mark


--Apple-Mail-5--653225845
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=windows-1252

<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
"><div><div>On Jan 9, 2013, at 6:04 AM, eib halimski wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite">- 4 =
minutes loop time<div>- unlimited overdub</div><div>- =
undo/redo</div><div><br></div><div>all in one small box seems =
whoasome&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div><a =
href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DIZCok4OYVOk">http://www.youtube.c=
om/watch?v=3DIZCok4OYVOk</a></div>
</blockquote></div><br><div>Nice =97 and for anyone without a looper =
it's probably a good choice.</div><div><br></div><div>I think about how =
I seem to be working these days and I think I could go for this if it =
offered the following: stereo and an ability to set the feedback (e.g., =
by holding down the button and turning the knob). If there feedback =
setting were "perfect" for me I might not even care about that. A little =
stereo looper pedal could sit at the end of my chain and cover just =
about everything I care about.</div><div><br></div><div>Give me some =
sort of sync cable support =97 see EDP brother sync =97 and I'll buy two =
(though please do this with the same flexibility as the EDP where sync =
means that the loop lengths are coordinated not that the start and end =
points have to align).</div><div><br></div><div>And then there is what =
may be the "fatal" flaw: it looks like record goes to play rather than =
overdub. (That could be acceptable if a long press at the end of record =
created an overdub overlap since mostly I'm worried about delay =
trails.)</div><div><br></div><div>----</div><div><br></div><div>I was an =
EDP man for quite a while. I tried the Repeater. I tried the =
Looperlative. But the EDP was fluid. I would probably still be using the =
EDP were it not for not wanting to carry around a rack and missing =
stereo support which meant that I needed not just a rack but a rack and =
a mixer or I needed to throw a MIDI foot controller into the process =
with two EDPs.</div><div><br></div><div>The features I most miss from =
the EDP:</div><div><br></div><div>* Multiply</div><div>* The ability to =
copy one loop into another, modify the second, and then come back to the =
first</div><div>* Freedom to start and stop more operations at arbitrary =
times while still preserving synchronization</div><div><br></div><div>My =
first CD was recorded with a single =
EDP.</div><div><br></div><div>Shortly after that I went the multiple EDP =
route with it settling into more or less a set up where one would mostly =
be about recording a "pulse" to underly the piece and the other would =
often be used as a long, synchronized delay line =97 often at 0% =
feedback. I used to want a way to evolve away from the pulse and then =
back to the pulse, but that almost always seems to get complicated. =
Since then I've looked for ways to do this without the need for a rack =
and mixers.</div><div><br></div><div>I played Y2KX using just the looper =
in the Line6 M13. I have to say that Line6 did manage to nail the core =
looping feature set quite well with lack of stereo being the chief =
failing. (And lack of MIDI/tempo sync given that the units have so much =
else that does do sync. They could just use the loop length to tweak the =
results of tap tempo and send MIDI clock and have a win for those of =
willing to start the drum machine after the loop is =
recorded.)</div><div><br></div><div>I have a Boomerang III now. The =
sound quality, switch feel, and size are great though the size would =
take a serious hit if I were to add a sidecar and a pedal for volume or =
decay. (The sidecar with a built in roller would have been a clear win.) =
The problem for me with the Boomerang is that it really lives to be a =
phrase sampler. It's a great looper if you want to record =
verse/chorus/bridge and play against them. To do the sort of looping I =
was doing on the EDP, it's a pain and Mike Nelson has gotten a lot of =
long emails from me discussing how to fix =
this.</div><div><br></div><div>----</div><div><br></div><div>But if TC =
did a Ditto+ (it doesn't even need to be a "Ditto Pro"), I could easily =
see shifting to it. My feature list:</div><div><br></div><div>* Stereo =97=
 they can go to the size of the Flashback and other Tone Print =
pedals.</div><div><br></div><div>* Feedback control =97 two knobs =
instead of one. (I can think of interesting uses for more knobs in a =
Flashback pedal sized device, but I'm trying to stay =
minimal.)</div><div><br></div><div>* Exiting record closes the loop on =
the press but overdubs until the release. Or they need a switch to =
control whether record goes into play or =
overdub.</div><div><br></div><div>* Something Brother Sync like so that =
I can hook up a couple of these. (Even cooler if they had other pedals =
that also could connect on a sync buss. MIDI works but MIDI cables are =
awkwardly =
big.)</div><div><br></div><div>-----</div><div><br></div><div>Instead, =
they give me four minutes of loop time =97 who is going to remember =
where we were five minutes ago? =97 probably because adding more memory =
really doesn't require any extra design =
work.</div><div><br></div><div>Mark</div><div><br></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-5--653225845--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jan  9 19:20:32 2013
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Subject: Re: new tc electronic looper
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 11:20:29 -0800
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To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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On Jan 9, 2013, at 11:09 AM, Mark Hamburg wrote:

> But if TC did a Ditto+ (it doesn't even need to be a "Ditto Pro"), I =
could easily see shifting to it. My feature list:
>=20
> * Stereo =97 they can go to the size of the Flashback and other Tone =
Print pedals.
>=20
> * Feedback control =97 two knobs instead of one. (I can think of =
interesting uses for more knobs in a Flashback pedal sized device, but =
I'm trying to stay minimal.)
>=20
> * Exiting record closes the loop on the press but overdubs until the =
release. Or they need a switch to control whether record goes into play =
or overdub.
>=20
> * Something Brother Sync like so that I can hook up a couple of these. =
(Even cooler if they had other pedals that also could connect on a sync =
buss. MIDI works but MIDI cables are awkwardly big.)

Now put that against TC's stated goals: "The guitar player's looper" and =
"Dirt Simple Looping".

If they can bother with stereo on their Tone Print pedals, it clearly =
doesn't skew against those goals.

Feedback is clearly viewed by pedal manufacturers as a more esoteric =
control though it doesn't seem to be a problem on delay pedals. It is, =
however, the feature that gets dropped on delays when looking for =
simplicity. So, while I would like a knob, I could understand burying =
the control.

Brother Sync is a totally esoteric feature that goes against the =
simplicity goals. But it could be a jack that goes unused in the simple =
case so it isn't antithetical to it. It's more a matter that it adds =
cost to the product for a feature that won't appeal to the target market =
(but might help sell more pedals by making it worthwhile to own two or =
more looper pedals).

Mark


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<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
"><div><div>On Jan 9, 2013, at 11:09 AM, Mark Hamburg wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div>But if =
TC did a Ditto+ (it doesn't even need to be a "Ditto Pro"), I could =
easily see shifting to it. My feature list:</div><div><br></div><div>* =
Stereo =97 they can go to the size of the Flashback and other Tone Print =
pedals.</div><div><br></div><div>* Feedback control =97 two knobs =
instead of one. (I can think of interesting uses for more knobs in a =
Flashback pedal sized device, but I'm trying to stay =
minimal.)</div><div><br></div><div>* Exiting record closes the loop on =
the press but overdubs until the release. Or they need a switch to =
control whether record goes into play or =
overdub.</div><div><br></div><div>* Something Brother Sync like so that =
I can hook up a couple of these. (Even cooler if they had other pedals =
that also could connect on a sync buss. MIDI works but MIDI cables are =
awkwardly big.)</div></span></blockquote><br></div><div>Now put that =
against TC's stated goals: "The guitar player's looper" and "Dirt Simple =
Looping".</div><div><br></div><div>If they can bother with stereo on =
their Tone Print pedals, it clearly doesn't skew against those =
goals.</div><br><div>Feedback is clearly viewed by pedal manufacturers =
as a more esoteric control though it doesn't seem to be a problem on =
delay pedals. It is, however, the feature that gets dropped on delays =
when looking for simplicity. So, while I would like a knob, I could =
understand burying the control.</div><div><br></div><div>Brother Sync is =
a totally esoteric feature that goes against the simplicity goals. But =
it could be a jack that goes unused in the simple case so it isn't =
antithetical to it. It's more a matter that it adds cost to the product =
for a feature that won't appeal to the target market (but might help =
sell more pedals by making it worthwhile to own two or more looper =
pedals).</div><div><br></div><div>Mark</div><div><br></div></body></html>=

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Subject: Re: new tc electronic looper
From: David Gans <david@trufun.com>
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Is there any stomp box looper that has a feedback adjustment?=20



On Jan 9, 2013, at 11:09 AM, Mark Hamburg <mark@grubmah.com> wrote:

> On Jan 9, 2013, at 6:04 AM, eib halimski wrote:
>=20
>> - 4 minutes loop time
>> - unlimited overdub
>> - undo/redo
>>=20
>> all in one small box seems whoasome=20
>>=20
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DIZCok4OYVOk
>=20
> Nice =97 and for anyone without a looper it's probably a good choice.
>=20
> I think about how I seem to be working these days and I think I could =
go for this if it offered the following: stereo and an ability to set =
the feedback (e.g., by holding down the button and turning the knob). If =
there feedback setting were "perfect" for me I might not even care about =
that. A little stereo looper pedal could sit at the end of my chain and =
cover just about everything I care about.
>=20
>=20

David Gans - david@trufun.com or david@gdhour.com
Truth and Fun, Inc., 484 Lake Park Ave. #102, Oakland CA 94610-2730
Blog:  http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com
Web site: http://www.dgans.com
Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dgans
Music: http://www.cdbaby.com/all/dgans





--Apple-Mail=_FA3D0DE6-FA84-4B26-B64C-6E67BB118E7E
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	charset=windows-1252

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dwindows-1252"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
"><div><br></div><div>Is there any stomp box looper that has a feedback =
adjustment?&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><br><div><div>On =
Jan 9, 2013, at 11:09 AM, Mark Hamburg &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:mark@grubmah.com">mark@grubmah.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"font-family: Times; font-size: medium; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: =
-webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div>On Jan 9, 2013, at 6:04 AM, eib =
halimski wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">- 4 minutes loop time<div>- unlimited overdub</div><div>- =
undo/redo</div><div><br></div><div>all in one small box seems =
whoasome&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div><a =
href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DIZCok4OYVOk">http://www.youtube.c=
om/watch?v=3DIZCok4OYVOk</a></div></blockquote></div><br =
style=3D"font-family: Times; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
"><div style=3D"font-family: Times; font-size: medium; font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; ">Nice =97 and for anyone without a =
looper it's probably a good choice.</div><div style=3D"font-family: =
Times; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family: Times; font-size: medium; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: =
-webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; ">I think about how I seem to be working =
these days and I think I could go for this if it offered the following: =
stereo and an ability to set the feedback (e.g., by holding down the =
button and turning the knob). If there feedback setting were "perfect" =
for me I might not even care about that. A little stereo looper pedal =
could sit at the end of my chain and cover just about everything I care =
about.</div><div style=3D"font-family: Times; font-size: medium; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: =
-webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><br></div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></blockquote></div><br><div =
apple-content-edited=3D"true">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Times; font-size: medium; font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Times; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"Times"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: =
medium; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Helvetica" =
size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; =
"><div>David Gans - <a =
href=3D"mailto:david@trufun.com">david@trufun.com</a> or <a =
href=3D"mailto:david@gdhour.com">david@gdhour.com</a></div><div>Truth =
and Fun, Inc., 484 Lake Park Ave. #102, Oakland CA =
94610-2730</div><div>Blog: &nbsp;<a =
href=3D"http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com">http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com</a>=
</div><div>Web site: <a =
href=3D"http://www.dgans.com">http://www.dgans.com</a></div><div>Photos: =
<a =
href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/photos/dgans">http://www.flickr.com/photos/d=
gans</a></div><div>Music: <a =
href=3D"http://www.cdbaby.com/all/dgans">http://www.cdbaby.com/all/dgans</=
a></div><div><br></div></span></font></span></font></div></div></span></di=
v><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br></body></html>=

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Subject: Re: new tc electronic looper
From: Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com>
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On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 8:09 PM, Mark Hamburg <mark@grubmah.com> wrote:
> Nice =E2=80=94 and for anyone without a looper it's probably a good choic=
e.


...given they define live looping as "make a loop and play over it" ;-)

I like the design of this box, but for my taste it looks better than
it loops. Can't agree more with your write-up on the EDP.

Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.perboysen.com
http://www.youtube.com/perboysen

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Subject: Great Scott!
From: daniel <daniel@ithinkwethink.org>
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LoopaTroopas,

For all y'all Boston area people, I'm opening for Onslo (Boston) and
Abadabad (NYC) tomorrow night at Great Scott. Show starts at 9p.
Info: https://www.facebook.com/events/382549141839489/?fref=ts

Hope you can make it out, it'd be great to meet some more of you (I met Tim
at Mr Music on Sunday by chance because we have a mutual friend who's also
a looper and works there)!

Here's a clip from my set last night at All Asia's new  Scooby Snacks,
hosted by Al Polk of Streight Angular
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mdiGoIU-_4&feature=share&list=UUO7GvhXUQ2SIcGQo6JQD-yw




Dan
www.iamdanielharris.com

--485b390f7de4bd269704d2e08973
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>LoopaTroopas, <br><br></div>For all y&#39;all Bo=
ston area people, I&#39;m opening for Onslo (Boston) and Abadabad (NYC) tom=
orrow night at Great Scott. Show starts at 9p. <br>Info: <a href=3D"https:/=
/www.facebook.com/events/382549141839489/?fref=3Dts">https://www.facebook.c=
om/events/382549141839489/?fref=3Dts</a><br>
<br></div><div>Hope you can make it out, it&#39;d be great to meet some mor=
e of you (I met Tim at Mr Music on Sunday by chance because we have a mutua=
l friend who&#39;s also a looper and works there)! <br></div><div><div>
<div><div><br>Here&#39;s a clip from my set last night at All Asia&#39;s ne=
w=A0 Scooby Snacks, hosted by Al Polk of Streight Angular <a href=3D"http:/=
/www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D_mdiGoIU-_4&amp;feature=3Dshare&amp;list=3DUUO7G=
vhXUQ2SIcGQo6JQD-yw">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D_mdiGoIU-_4&amp;featu=
re=3Dshare&amp;list=3DUUO7GvhXUQ2SIcGQo6JQD-yw</a><br>
<br><br><br><br></div><div>Dan<br></div><div><a href=3D"http://www.iamdanie=
lharris.com">www.iamdanielharris.com</a><br></div></div></div></div></div>

--485b390f7de4bd269704d2e08973--

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Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 15:09:14 -0500
Message-ID: <CAK7t345OQULefcD8Ym4-GiRk4aMg+WwJobaJO+1dLAZN6duLcg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: new tc electronic looper
From: Jeff Duke <jeffloops@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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--20cf3074b1bae486e904d2e0a251
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I have two that do have feedback control. The EH 2880 (stereo) and the
looper in the Line 6 M9 (mono). My Boss DD 20 also has feedback in the
stereo 23 sec delay but not the actual looper setting in it (which I don't
use). This delay type looping is my fav but it doesn't have reverse/half
speed like like the first two I mentioned.

Jeff

On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 2:24 PM, David Gans <david@trufun.com> wrote:

>
> Is there any stomp box looper that has a feedback adjustment?
>
>
>
> On Jan 9, 2013, at 11:09 AM, Mark Hamburg <mark@grubmah.com> wrote:
>
> On Jan 9, 2013, at 6:04 AM, eib halimski wrote:
>
> - 4 minutes loop time
> - unlimited overdub
> - undo/redo
>
> all in one small box seems whoasome
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DIZCok4OYVOk
>
>
> Nice =97 and for anyone without a looper it's probably a good choice.
>
> I think about how I seem to be working these days and I think I could go
> for this if it offered the following: stereo and an ability to set the
> feedback (e.g., by holding down the button and turning the knob). If ther=
e
> feedback setting were "perfect" for me I might not even care about that. =
A
> little stereo looper pedal could sit at the end of my chain and cover jus=
t
> about everything I care about.
>
>
>
> David Gans - david@trufun.com or david@gdhour.com
> Truth and Fun, Inc., 484 Lake Park Ave. #102, Oakland CA 94610-2730
> Blog:  http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com
> Web site: http://www.dgans.com
> Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dgans
> Music: http://www.cdbaby.com/all/dgans
>
>
>
>
>

--20cf3074b1bae486e904d2e0a251
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I have two that do have feedback control. The EH 2880 (stereo) and the loop=
er in the Line 6 M9 (mono). My Boss DD 20 also has feedback in the stereo 2=
3 sec delay but not the actual looper setting in it (which I don&#39;t use)=
. This delay type looping is my fav but it doesn&#39;t have reverse/half sp=
eed like like the first two I mentioned.<br>
<br>Jeff<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 2:24 PM, =
David Gans <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:david@trufun.com" target=
=3D"_blank">david@trufun.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-=
left:1ex">
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div><br></div><div>Is there any stomp =
box looper that has a feedback adjustment?=A0</div><div><br></div><div><br>=
</div><br><div><div>On Jan 9, 2013, at 11:09 AM, Mark Hamburg &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:mark@grubmah.com" target=3D"_blank">mark@grubmah.com</a>&gt; wro=
te:</div>
<br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"font-family:Times;font-size:med=
ium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing=
:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-tra=
nsform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<div>On Jan 9, 2013, at 6:04 AM, eib halimski wrote:</div><br><blockquote t=
ype=3D"cite">- 4 minutes loop time<div>- unlimited overdub</div><div>- undo=
/redo</div><div><br></div><div>all in one small box seems whoasome=A0</div>
<div><br></div><div><a href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DIZCok4OYVOk=
" target=3D"_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DIZCok4OYVOk</a></div><=
/blockquote></div><br style=3D"font-family:Times;font-size:medium;font-styl=
e:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-=
height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;w=
hite-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<div style=3D"font-family:Times;font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-var=
iant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;tex=
t-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal=
;word-spacing:0px">
Nice =97 and for anyone without a looper it&#39;s probably a good choice.</=
div><div style=3D"font-family:Times;font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font=
-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal=
;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:no=
rmal;word-spacing:0px">
<br></div><div style=3D"font-family:Times;font-size:medium;font-style:norma=
l;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:=
normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-sp=
ace:normal;word-spacing:0px">
I think about how I seem to be working these days and I think I could go fo=
r this if it offered the following: stereo and an ability to set the feedba=
ck (e.g., by holding down the button and turning the knob). If there feedba=
ck setting were &quot;perfect&quot; for me I might not even care about that=
. A little stereo looper pedal could sit at the end of my chain and cover j=
ust about everything I care about.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Times;font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-var=
iant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;tex=
t-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal=
;word-spacing:0px">
<br></div><br></blockquote></div><br><div>
<span style=3D"text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;te=
xt-align:auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;borde=
r-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal=
;font-family:Times;word-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"text-indent:0px;letter-=
spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;lin=
e-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;font-size:medi=
um;white-space:normal;font-family:Times;word-spacing:0px"><div style=3D"wor=
d-wrap:break-word">
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><span style=3D"text-indent:0px;letter-s=
pacing:normal;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line=
-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;font-size:12px;=
white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px"><div style=3D"wo=
rd-wrap:break-word">
<div><font face=3D"Times"><span style=3D"font-size:medium"><font size=3D"3"=
 face=3D"Helvetica"><span style=3D"font-size:12px"><div>David Gans - <a hre=
f=3D"mailto:david@trufun.com" target=3D"_blank">david@trufun.com</a> or <a =
href=3D"mailto:david@gdhour.com" target=3D"_blank">david@gdhour.com</a></di=
v>
<div>Truth and Fun, Inc., 484 Lake Park Ave. #102, Oakland CA 94610-2730</d=
iv><div>Blog: =A0<a href=3D"http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com</a></div><div>Web site: <a href=3D"http:/=
/www.dgans.com" target=3D"_blank">http://www.dgans.com</a></div>
<div>Photos: <a href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/photos/dgans" target=3D"_blan=
k">http://www.flickr.com/photos/dgans</a></div><div>Music: <a href=3D"http:=
//www.cdbaby.com/all/dgans" target=3D"_blank">http://www.cdbaby.com/all/dga=
ns</a></div>
<div><br></div></span></font></span></font></div></div></span></div><br></d=
iv></span></span><br>
</div>
<br></div></blockquote></div><br>

--20cf3074b1bae486e904d2e0a251--

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David Gans wrote:
> 
> Is there any stomp box looper that has a feedback adjustment? 

Pigtronix Infinity. Currently on the Gear Page the pig people are
listening to users and updating the firmware accordingly.
Seems like the whole pigtronix team is taking part...good for them.

EH SMM + Hazarai ..during overdub, but you have to hold the button down to get overdub.

Vox Delaylab     ...during overdub on a custom setting.

andy

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It's almost a joke :-)

..but then they manage 7 features from one footswitch.

Trouble is though, 7 features from one switch with 
longpress and double tap...that's going to be 
"a little bit complicated" for the guy who can
only handle one switch and one knob.

andy



eib halimski wrote:
> - 4 minutes loop time
> - unlimited overdub
> - undo/redo
> 
> all in one small box seems whoasome 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZCok4OYVOk

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Subject: Re: new tc electronic looper
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Thanks. I should probably dig my 2880 out of the closet and try it =
again. When I first got it, I though it wasn't really going to work as =
an on-the-fly looper for me.


On Jan 9, 2013, at 12:09 PM, Jeff Duke <jeffloops@gmail.com> wrote:

> I have two that do have feedback control. The EH 2880 (stereo) and the =
looper in the Line 6 M9 (mono). My Boss DD 20 also has feedback in the =
stereo 23 sec delay but not the actual looper setting in it (which I =
don't use). This delay type looping is my fav but it doesn't have =
reverse/half speed like like the first two I mentioned.

David Gans - david@trufun.com or david@gdhour.com
Truth and Fun, Inc., 484 Lake Park Ave. #102, Oakland CA 94610-2730
Blog:  http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com
Web site: http://www.dgans.com
Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dgans
Music: http://www.cdbaby.com/all/dgans





--Apple-Mail=_47ED13EE-AAE9-4A14-A40C-03DFA87ADA34
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dwindows-1252"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
"><div><br></div>Thanks. I should probably dig my 2880 out of the closet =
and try it again. When I first got it, I though it wasn't really going =
to work as an on-the-fly looper for =
me.<div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On Jan 9, 2013, at 12:09 PM, Jeff =
Duke &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:jeffloops@gmail.com">jeffloops@gmail.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><span style=3D"font-family: Times; font-size: medium; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: =
-webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; display: inline !important; float: none; =
">I have two that do have feedback control. The EH 2880 (stereo) and the =
looper in the Line 6 M9 (mono). My Boss DD 20 also has feedback in the =
stereo 23 sec delay but not the actual looper setting in it (which I =
don't use). This delay type looping is my fav but it doesn't have =
reverse/half speed like like the first two I mentioned.</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Times; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
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<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Times; font-size: medium; font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Times; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"Times"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: =
medium; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Helvetica" =
size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; =
"><div>David Gans - <a =
href=3D"mailto:david@trufun.com">david@trufun.com</a> or <a =
href=3D"mailto:david@gdhour.com">david@gdhour.com</a></div><div>Truth =
and Fun, Inc., 484 Lake Park Ave. #102, Oakland CA =
94610-2730</div><div>Blog: &nbsp;<a =
href=3D"http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com">http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com</a>=
</div><div>Web site: <a =
href=3D"http://www.dgans.com">http://www.dgans.com</a></div><div>Photos: =
<a =
href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/photos/dgans">http://www.flickr.com/photos/d=
gans</a></div><div>Music: <a =
href=3D"http://www.cdbaby.com/all/dgans">http://www.cdbaby.com/all/dgans</=
a></div><div><br></div></span></font></span></font></div></div></span></di=
v><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_47ED13EE-AAE9-4A14-A40C-03DFA87ADA34--

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Subject: Re: new tc electronic looper
From: David Gans <david@trufun.com>
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Hazarai? Is that one designed by Israelis?

I'll look at the Pigtronix. Thanks!



On Jan 9, 2013, at 12:09 PM, andy butler <akbutler@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

>=20
> Pigtronix Infinity. Currently on the Gear Page the pig people are
> listening to users and updating the firmware accordingly.
> Seems like the whole pigtronix team is taking part...good for them.
>=20
> EH SMM + Hazarai ..during overdub, but you have to hold the button =
down to get overdub.
>=20

David Gans - david@trufun.com or david@gdhour.com
Truth and Fun, Inc., 484 Lake Park Ave. #102, Oakland CA 94610-2730
Blog:  http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com
Web site: http://www.dgans.com
Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dgans
Music: http://www.cdbaby.com/all/dgans




From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jan  9 20:41:10 2013
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Subject: Re: new tc electronic looper
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Thanks Andy, I should have also mentioned that both the 2880 and the M9
have feedback in overdub mode only which is a shame. The DD 20 delay can be
switched out or to the next preset and it will continue with whatever
feedback setting you have set.

Jeff

On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 3:09 PM, andy butler <akbutler@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

>
>
> David Gans wrote:
>
>>
>> Is there any stomp box looper that has a feedback adjustment?
>>
>
> Pigtronix Infinity. Currently on the Gear Page the pig people are
> listening to users and updating the firmware accordingly.
> Seems like the whole pigtronix team is taking part...good for them.
>
> EH SMM + Hazarai ..during overdub, but you have to hold the button down to
> get overdub.
>
> Vox Delaylab     ...during overdub on a custom setting.
>
> andy
>
>

--20cf3074b1ba10709b04d2e1151a
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Thanks Andy, I should have also mentioned that both the 2880 and the M9 hav=
e feedback in overdub mode only which is a shame. The DD 20 delay can be sw=
itched out or to the next preset and it will continue with whatever feedbac=
k setting you have set.<br>
<br>Jeff<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 3:09 PM, =
andy butler <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:akbutler@tiscali.co.uk"=
 target=3D"_blank">akbutler@tiscali.co.uk</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc s=
olid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
<br>
David Gans wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Is there any stomp box looper that has a feedback adjustment? <br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Pigtronix Infinity. Currently on the Gear Page the pig people are<br>
listening to users and updating the firmware accordingly.<br>
Seems like the whole pigtronix team is taking part...good for them.<br>
<br>
EH SMM + Hazarai ..during overdub, but you have to hold the button down to =
get overdub.<br>
<br>
Vox Delaylab =A0 =A0 ...during overdub on a custom setting.<span class=3D"H=
OEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
<br>
andy<br>
<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br>

--20cf3074b1ba10709b04d2e1151a--

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--------------050609050009010406000106
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On 1/9/2013 11:24 AM, David Gans wrote:
>
> Is there any stomp box looper that has a feedback adjustment?
>
>
Looperlative LP-2 Mini Looper with an expression pedal,
30 levels of undo, automatic recording of 8 loops to an SD card,
Midi sync I/O,  Quantized replace in many time signatures,
1/2, double, 1/4, quadruple speed, reverse, replace, multiple
retrigger options (one shot, continuous, random), runs for
12 hours on 6 AA batteries,  footprint of two Boss styled
stomp box pedals,  attractive Metallic purple case <giggle, that's me>
Mono I/O

street price: $300.00

--------------050609050009010406000106
Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

<html>
  <head>
    <meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
      http-equiv="Content-Type">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/9/2013 11:24 AM, David Gans wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:%3C5185F2BF-8747-4417-B5EC-04FAFCD4A2D1@trufun.com%3E"
      type="cite">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
        charset=windows-1252">
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Is there any stomp box looper that has a feedback
        adjustment? </div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <br>
    </blockquote>
    Looperlative LP-2 Mini Looper with an expression pedal, <br>
    30 levels of undo, automatic recording of 8 loops to an SD card, <br>
    Midi sync I/O,  Quantized replace in many time signatures, <br>
    1/2, double, 1/4, quadruple speed, reverse, replace, multiple <br>
    retrigger options (one shot, continuous, random), runs for <br>
    12 hours on 6 AA batteries,  footprint of two Boss styled <br>
    stomp box pedals,  attractive Metallic purple case &lt;giggle,
    that's me&gt;<br>
    Mono I/O<br>
    <br>
    street price: $300.00<br>
  </body>
</html>

--------------050609050009010406000106--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jan  9 22:04:48 2013
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Subject: Re: new tc electronic looper
From: David Gans <david@trufun.com>
In-Reply-To: <50EDDF78.6080201@cruzio.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 14:04:45 -0800
Cc: David Gans <david@trufun.com>
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I haven't been following this saga closely of late. Is it shipping now?


On Jan 9, 2013, at 1:22 PM, Rick Walker <looppool@cruzio.com> wrote:

> On 1/9/2013 11:24 AM, David Gans wrote:
>> 
>> Is there any stomp box looper that has a feedback adjustment? 
>> 
>> 
> Looperlative LP-2 Mini Looper with an expression pedal, 
> 30 levels of undo, automatic recording of 8 loops to an SD card, 
> Midi sync I/O,  Quantized replace in many time signatures, 
> 1/2, double, 1/4, quadruple speed, reverse, replace, multiple 
> retrigger options (one shot, continuous, random), runs for 
> 12 hours on 6 AA batteries,  footprint of two Boss styled 
> stomp box pedals,  attractive Metallic purple case <giggle, that's me>
> Mono I/O
> 
> street price: $300.00

David Gans - david@trufun.com or david@gdhour.com
Truth and Fun, Inc., 484 Lake Park Ave. #102, Oakland CA 94610-2730
Blog:  http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com
Web site: http://www.dgans.com
Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dgans
Music: http://www.cdbaby.com/all/dgans





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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dwindows-1252"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
"><div><br></div><div>I haven't been following this saga closely of =
late. Is it shipping now?</div><div><br></div><br><div><div>On Jan 9, =
2013, at 1:22 PM, Rick Walker &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:looppool@cruzio.com">looppool@cruzio.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">
 =20
    <meta content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dwindows-1252" =
http-equiv=3D"Content-Type">
 =20
  <div text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">
    <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 1/9/2013 11:24 AM, David Gans =
wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote =
cite=3D"mid:%3C5185F2BF-8747-4417-B5EC-04FAFCD4A2D1@trufun.com%3E" =
type=3D"cite">
      <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html;
        charset=3Dwindows-1252">
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Is there any stomp box looper that has a feedback
        adjustment?&nbsp;</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <br>
    </blockquote>
    Looperlative LP-2 Mini Looper with an expression pedal, <br>
    30 levels of undo, automatic recording of 8 loops to an SD card, =
<br>
    Midi sync I/O,&nbsp; Quantized replace in many time signatures, <br>
    1/2, double, 1/4, quadruple speed, reverse, replace, multiple <br>
    retrigger options (one shot, continuous, random), runs for <br>
    12 hours on 6 AA batteries,&nbsp; footprint of two Boss styled <br>
    stomp box pedals,&nbsp; attractive Metallic purple case &lt;giggle,
    that's me&gt;<br>
    Mono I/O<br>
    <br>
    street price: $300.00<br>
  </div>

</blockquote></div><br><div apple-content-edited=3D"true">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
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Times; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
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after-white-space; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
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-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"Times"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: =
medium; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Helvetica" =
size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; =
"><div>David Gans - <a =
href=3D"mailto:david@trufun.com">david@trufun.com</a> or <a =
href=3D"mailto:david@gdhour.com">david@gdhour.com</a></div><div>Truth =
and Fun, Inc., 484 Lake Park Ave. #102, Oakland CA =
94610-2730</div><div>Blog: &nbsp;<a =
href=3D"http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com">http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com</a>=
</div><div>Web site: <a =
href=3D"http://www.dgans.com">http://www.dgans.com</a></div><div>Photos: =
<a =
href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/photos/dgans">http://www.flickr.com/photos/d=
gans</a></div><div>Music: <a =
href=3D"http://www.cdbaby.com/all/dgans">http://www.cdbaby.com/all/dgans</=
a></div><div><br></div></span></font></span></font></div></div></span></di=
v><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br></body></html>=

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Subject: Re: new tc electronic looper
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 16:30:39 -0600
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On Jan 9, 2013, at 4:04 PM, David Gans wrote:

>
> I haven't been following this saga closely of late. Is it shipping  
> now?

Apparently early March in Europe (and elsewhere?). Late March in the  
US. That's what I heard today in another forum, so don't necessarily  
take it as gospel. However, a representative from TC (Tore...the guy  
in the video) participates regularly in that thread.

Jeff

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Are you talking about the Looperlative LP-2?

On Jan 9, 2013, at 2:30 PM, Jeff Shirkey <jcshirke@frontier.com> wrote:

> Apparently early March in Europe (and elsewhere?). Late March in the =
US. That's what I heard today in another forum, so don't necessarily =
take it as gospel. However, a representative from TC (Tore...the guy in =
the video) participates regularly in that thread.



David Gans - david@trufun.com or david@gdhour.com
Truth and Fun, Inc., 484 Lake Park Ave. #102, Oakland CA 94610-2730

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On Jan 9, 2013, at 4:37 PM, David Gans wrote:

>
> Are you talking about the Looperlative LP-2?


No, the TC looper in the subject header.

Sorry for any confusion.

Jeff

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jan  9 23:08:19 2013
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Hi Kevin

yeah... it's soo tempting to shift up your gear...
There really comes a point where you _have_ to make a conscious choice if you are devoted to being a techie/gear geek or a musician/artist. Now, I hear all these people screaming: but you can be both! Well, to be honest, I can't. Because I can either focus on optimizing my musical/artistic expression (thus, living with whatever gear I have) or I can focus on optimizing my gear/setup (thus, accepting a steady state artistically).

While I'm tempted and love tweaking gear (hardware, software) - currently I'm just happy throwing out any computer/electronic gear, grabbing a simple instrument - or even better: just pen & paper.

But getting back to your original question. Personally, I see three different settings with differenty - but possibly overlapping - requirements:
1.)Studio/Home Setup:
Everything should be wired ready, able to fire up instantly, supporting your natural workflow smoothly. High performance, enjoy working with.
2.) Mobile Setup (taking to friends/jams):
As simple, portable as possible, quick setup. Able to carry in backpack, public transport. Fun, less (gear) is more.
3.) Stage/Gig Setup:
Robust, reliable, flexible/fixable when necessary. Able to carry yourself (several steps), fits in car. Beer-proof, idiot-proof. Works for monitoring, FOH guy, PA, band etc. Able to control in dark/dim light.

Of course, in the long run, you might be better of with a powerful laptop - which you could use for all three setup purposes.

For your mobile and gig setup, you should also practice - just like practicing an instrument - setting up everyting. Optimize your setup steps (maybe write them down) and make it a habit to stick to them each time.

I also recommend practicing with your gear in pitch black darkness. This way, you really get a feeling for your gear.

Final thing: I wouldn't use electric tape on cables, get's really messy/nasty when you take it of after 2 years. I'd use simple plastic cable binders instead.

Good luck and enjoy your music!
Buzap

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<HEAD>
<STYLE>body{font-size:10pt;font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:#ffffff;color:black;}p{margin:0px;}</STYLE>

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<P><FONT color=#000000><FONT size=2><FONT face=arial,sans-serif>Don't forget the Rang III has this capability via either the Decay knob or an option to use the expression pedal to control this parameter.</FONT></FONT></FONT></P>
<P><FONT color=#000000><FONT size=2><FONT face=arial,sans-serif></FONT></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
<P><FONT color=#000000><FONT size=2><FONT face=arial,sans-serif>G</P>
<P><BR></P></FONT></FONT></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 0px">-----Original Message----- <BR>From: David Gans <DAVID@TRUFUN.COM><BR>Sent: Jan 9, 2013 1:24 PM <BR>To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com <BR>Cc: David Gans <DAVID@TRUFUN.COM><BR>Subject: Re: new tc electronic looper <BR><BR><ZZZHTML><ZZZHEAD><ZZZMETA content="text/html charset=windows-1252" http-equiv="Content-Type"></ZZZHEAD><ZZZBODY style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space">
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Is there any stomp box looper that has a feedback adjustment?&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><BR>
<DIV></ZZZHTML></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY>

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Subject: Re: new tc electronic looper
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Honestly, it looks and sounds great, but still as a guitarist I feel insulted.

Doesn't he say basically say that by eliminating all those complicated
"features" they've created a pedal that I, the poor pathetic
guitarist, can both afford and understand?

Still, I probably won't get one. It's got both a knob AND a button. If
it had one or the other, maybe. But both? Too much for me.

On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 4:56 PM, Grant <grantmepeace@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Don't forget the Rang III has this capability via either the Decay knob or
> an option to use the expression pedal to control this parameter.
>
>
>
> G
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Gans
> Sent: Jan 9, 2013 1:24 PM
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Cc: David Gans
> Subject: Re: new tc electronic looper
>
>
> Is there any stomp box looper that has a feedback adjustment?
>
>
>



-- 
Art Simon
simart@gmail.com

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Subject: Re: new tc electronic looper
From: eib halimski <halimzainal@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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if it's priced less than $100 then i might consider. which is most
unlikely. personally, i feel the edp is enough..for me at least

On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 10:14 AM, Art Simon <simart@gmail.com> wrote:

> Honestly, it looks and sounds great, but still as a guitarist I feel
> insulted.
>
> Doesn't he say basically say that by eliminating all those complicated
> "features" they've created a pedal that I, the poor pathetic
> guitarist, can both afford and understand?
>
> Still, I probably won't get one. It's got both a knob AND a button. If
> it had one or the other, maybe. But both? Too much for me.
>
> On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 4:56 PM, Grant <grantmepeace@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > Don't forget the Rang III has this capability via either the Decay knob
> or
> > an option to use the expression pedal to control this parameter.
> >
> >
> >
> > G
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: David Gans
> > Sent: Jan 9, 2013 1:24 PM
> > To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> > Cc: David Gans
> > Subject: Re: new tc electronic looper
> >
> >
> > Is there any stomp box looper that has a feedback adjustment?
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Art Simon
> simart@gmail.com
>
>

--000e0ce04572961c5c04d2e5d2f7
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
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if it&#39;s priced less than $100 then i might consider. which is most unli=
kely. personally, i feel the edp is enough..for me at least<br><br><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 10:14 AM, Art Simon <span dir=3D=
"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:simart@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">simart@gmai=
l.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Honestly, it looks and sounds great, but sti=
ll as a guitarist I feel insulted.<br>
<br>
Doesn&#39;t he say basically say that by eliminating all those complicated<=
br>
&quot;features&quot; they&#39;ve created a pedal that I, the poor pathetic<=
br>
guitarist, can both afford and understand?<br>
<br>
Still, I probably won&#39;t get one. It&#39;s got both a knob AND a button.=
 If<br>
it had one or the other, maybe. But both? Too much for me.<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 4:56 PM, Grant &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:grantmepeace@mi=
ndspring.com">grantmepeace@mindspring.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; Don&#39;t forget the Rang III has this capability via either the Decay=
 knob or<br>
&gt; an option to use the expression pedal to control this parameter.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; G<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: David Gans<br>
&gt; Sent: Jan 9, 2013 1:24 PM<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Del=
ight@loopers-delight.com</a><br>
&gt; Cc: David Gans<br>
&gt; Subject: Re: new tc electronic looper<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Is there any stomp box looper that has a feedback adjustment?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</div></div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">--<br>
Art Simon<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:simart@gmail.com">simart@gmail.com</a><br>
<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br>

--000e0ce04572961c5c04d2e5d2f7--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jan 10 05:01:13 2013
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From: "Emile Tobenfeld (a.k.a Dr. T)" <emile@foryourhead.com>
Subject: New Photo Essay on Flickr
Cc: eyecandy@egroups.com, boss-improv@topica.com, iotacenter@egroups.com,
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Hi folks,

I haven't posted  on Flickr anything since July, so I'll make up for 
it by posting my best photos of 2012 in approximately chronological 
order.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/22231918@N06/sets/72157632485591206
-- 
" Practice makes perfect, imperfect is better."  -- Paul Bley

		Emile Tobenfeld, Ph. D.
Video Producer			Image Processing Specialist
Video for your HEAD!			Boris FX
http://www.foryourhead.com		http://www.borisfx.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jan 10 06:56:51 2013
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On Jan 9, 2013, at 6:20 PM, eib halimski wrote:

> if it's priced less than $100 then i might consider. which is most =
unlikely. personally, i feel the edp is enough..for me at least

Maybe I need to revisit the notion of trying to build a footpedal =
enclosure for the EDP. It would be a big footpedal, but at least it =
would avoid the need for a rack. (I wish the SKB rack + pedalboard =
things still existed.) And then I'd need support for stereo pass =
through...

Mark


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<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
"><div><div>On Jan 9, 2013, at 6:20 PM, eib halimski wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
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none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; ">if it's =
priced less than $100 then i might consider. which is most unlikely. =
personally, i feel the edp is enough..for me at =
least<br></span></blockquote></div><br><div>Maybe I need to revisit the =
notion of trying to build a footpedal enclosure for the EDP. It would be =
a big footpedal, but at least it would avoid the need for a rack. (I =
wish the SKB rack + pedalboard things still existed.) And then I'd need =
support for stereo pass =
through...</div><div><br></div><div>Mark</div><div><br></div></body></html=
>=

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The EHX 2880 do it too.
Really great looper.

Marc



=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D




Don't forget the Rang III has this capability via either the Decay knob or =
an option to use the expression pedal to control this parameter.

=20

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Rick Walker wrote:
> 
> On 1/9/2013 11:24 AM, David Gans wrote:
>>
>> Is there any stomp box looper that has a feedback adjustment? 
>>
>>
> Looperlative LP-2 Mini Looper with an expression pedal,


of course !

andy

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Art Simon wrote:
> Honestly, it looks and sounds great, but still as a guitarist I feel insulted.
> 
> Doesn't he say basically say that by eliminating all those complicated
> "features" they've created a pedal that I, the poor pathetic
> guitarist, can both afford and understand?

yes, drummer jokes are now forever replaced with guitarist jokes

andy

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	<CANkvTY-Nh5GRczr+bh_bKOB4HyAgFnsYft2McDLMWKhto94VCw@mail.gmail.com>
	<50EF0FE8.6000706@tiscali.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 20:04:31 +0100
Message-ID: <CAJC14Wjjj7AaJrYWTbSirnSiuoO9Z6w0_vpATMgdu826qOCkCQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: new tc electronic looper
From: Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com>
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>> Doesn't he say basically say that by eliminating all those complicated
>> "features" they've created a pedal that I, the poor pathetic
>> guitarist, can both afford and understand?
>
On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 8:00 PM, andy butler <akbutler@tiscali.co.uk> wrote=
:

> yes, drummer jokes are now forever replaced with guitarist jokes


=C4=B1=C4=B1:  And forever told by loopers...  :=C4=B1=C4=B1

PB ;-)

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Subject: Listen to Galactic Travels
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GALACTIC TRAVELS ON WDIY:                   http://galactictravels.info
=======================================================================
Tonight at 11 pm EST/GMT-5 on Galactic Travels, I'll continue the
month-long Special Focus on Mystified.  The Featured CD at Midnight
will be "Flickering Fuel" on Dark Meadow Recordings.  The Special Focus
page is at: http://soundscapes.us/gt/playlists/2013/focus.html#jan

Galactic Travels is an electronic, ambient, and space music show that
airs each Thursday at 11:04 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and
Bethlehem, 93.9 FM in Easton and Phillipsburg, 93.7 FM in Fogelsville
and Trexlertown, on the internet, and in High Definition Radio at 88.1
FM.  Listen at http://wdiy.org on the internet.

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I always write replies and wait for the smart folks to answer first.  =
Usually, everything I wanted to say gets said in a more clear, coherent =
way and my trumped replies gather dust in my 'Drafts' folder. =20

Indeed, Buzap covered most of my thoughts.  Only addition is, in the US, =
we call 'em wire ties.  That's the only way to go, otherwise your wires =
will get all gunky from tape.

GooGone gets it off, but don't know if it's good for the cable itself.

Get wire ties at Radio Shack, Home Depot etc.

For live performance, there is a company that sells yellow wire ties =
with a big tab for writing your name.  Great when you use good and or =
expensive/hard to find cables.  Has saved many a cable for me from stage =
hands in a hurry.=20

www.nelcoproducts.com
Model or description - N-6AYE YL W/ON MARKER, 6"
You can only buy 'em by the 100, but they are only $21. =20

You can also use these to identify bundles of cables in the studio.
I'd send you some but the postage from Canada would skew the cost for =
you.  Better to order your own and share w friends.

As far as Buzap's comment on choosing to be a tech head or music person =
- it's a very important point.  Equipment is a bottomless pit.  What's =
confusing is, I've found that with better equipment it's easier to get =
good sound.  Further confusion? debt can be a detriment to creativity =
because you always have to be earning $$$ to pay for the equipment.  =
Plus, you can spend your life with your nose in manuals. =20

Probably better to err on the side of 'musician' than tech head - =
depending on your what brings you pleasure.

I'm swamped in equipment here, but consider myself more musician than =
tech head.  I just don't learn EVERYTHING a piece can do, just what I =
need to learn to get done what I want to do.  Over time, those other =
functions will be easier to grasp.
.....
Ergonomics of studio layout has taken me decades to sort out.  I'm still =
not in a state of bliss about my setup, but I can work very fast now, =
and have a lot of power within arm's reach, without hunting for things =
or having to set things up.  I like speed when recording - I move very =
fast.  Don't like to lose ideas or inspiration looking for, setting up =
devices, rifling through junk etc.  For me, keeping the studio extremely =
clean helps a lot.  The more clutter, the harder to find things.  Plus, =
dust and dirt shorten the life of faders, pots,  patch bays etc.

At the end of every day I put stuff away; I sort of 'clean the work =
site'. =20

The basic horse shoe arrangement has been my go to layout for years.  =
Mixer center, processing stuff to the left and right of that, keyboards =
left and right of that.  Guitar rig behind me. I still have to sit on =
the floor to adjust some stuff in racks.  I see that in studios big and =
small, and am waiting for some genius to figure out a workaround. I tend =
to avoid that equipment for that reason, but it's stupid. =20

In the studio I've run all the cables I can in wire troughs I built.  I =
don't like the sight of wires.  Stepping on wires can break them =
internally (learned that from Mike Gillies of Metallica recording crew). =
 They can be simple wood boxes (with hole saw holes for wire entrance) =
running around the circumference, or work area, of your studio.  Put all =
the wires that never change in them.  Amazing how much it helps.   I =
used red cedar I milled from fallen trees on our property here.  It's =
very pretty. =20

Another alternative to rivers of dusty stepped on wires is tubing.
There are companies that sell wire tubing to hold bundles of wire in the =
studio.  For ex:

=
http://www.cableorganizer.com/wire-loom/colored.html?green=3D0DE53E81-F6F3=
-5D6A-A310-D6128CB03668

For me, cluttered room =3D cluttered mind.  Cluttered mind =3D cluttered =
music.  Sometimes clutter in music is good, but it requires a lot of mix =
work for all the parts to stand out in the sea of stuff, so I arrange to =
avoid that usually.   This, of course, could all be the rambling of a =
mad geezer going blind in the twilight of time.  But it's a real =
pleasure to walk into a clean room and get right down to work, or wake =
up with an idea and, within minutes, be laying it down with all required =
tools within arm's reach.=20

Like you, I meditate to keep down clutter internally.  Nice to have the =
studio reflect that state externally.  Amazing how much it (both, =
actually) helps the music itself.

(Note - some like the mad scientist look - esp at first.  I used to, =
till I sort of BECAME a mad scientist in a sea of chaos)

I keep the bulk of my cables in a cabinet.  The cables I use frequently =
that aren't already connected, which are few, I have hanging on coat =
hooks in the back room.  Definitely room for improvement in the back =
room.  That's for the next remodel.

To give you an idea of my situation, yesterday I bought four big Totes =
for my excess wires. =20

I have developed ways of preplanning room layout/ergonomics that I can =
send you if curious.  Cheap, simple, fun.  My current studio is =
beautiful but can disappear when the muse strikes - which is desirable.  =
 If you're good with Sketchup, that works great.  I lost interest, ran =
out of 'learning time', when they went 3D.  Again, tech head vs =
musician.=20

Go to really good pro studios (or study Mix Magazine) and see how =
they've organized.  That's a lot of how I learned.

Obviously, this is a topic I'm passionate about.  Many less expensive =
studios are rats nests.  Once you get used to organization, you tend to =
wanna get out of the chaos, and done, asap. =20

I would think you want to be in a room that makes you feel good.  It's =
well worth the effort and relatively little money required if you can =
use carpentry tools.  If you can't, it's fun to learn and makes all of =
life more affordable (and attractive).  Just watch those fingers!

But, again, the ramblings of a very long term, semi OCD, studio loon.  =
When I was young, it didn't matter.  I had all the time in the world.

No one does, but illusion is much easier at the head, or beginning, of a =
reel of tape.

R
richard sales
www.glasswing.com
www.richardsales.com
www.hayleysales.com
www.goodnaturefarms.com











On Jan 9, 2013, at 3:08 PM, Buzap Buzap wrote:

> Hi Kevin
>=20
> yeah... it's soo tempting to shift up your gear...
> There really comes a point where you _have_ to make a conscious choice =
if you are devoted to being a techie/gear geek or a musician/artist. =
Now, I hear all these people screaming: but you can be both! Well, to be =
honest, I can't. Because I can either focus on optimizing my =
musical/artistic expression (thus, living with whatever gear I have) or =
I can focus on optimizing my gear/setup (thus, accepting a steady state =
artistically).
>=20
> While I'm tempted and love tweaking gear (hardware, software) - =
currently I'm just happy throwing out any computer/electronic gear, =
grabbing a simple instrument - or even better: just pen & paper.
>=20
> But getting back to your original question. Personally, I see three =
different settings with differenty - but possibly overlapping - =
requirements:
> 1.)Studio/Home Setup:
> Everything should be wired ready, able to fire up instantly, =
supporting your natural workflow smoothly. High performance, enjoy =
working with.
> 2.) Mobile Setup (taking to friends/jams):
> As simple, portable as possible, quick setup. Able to carry in =
backpack, public transport. Fun, less (gear) is more.
> 3.) Stage/Gig Setup:
> Robust, reliable, flexible/fixable when necessary. Able to carry =
yourself (several steps), fits in car. Beer-proof, idiot-proof. Works =
for monitoring, FOH guy, PA, band etc. Able to control in dark/dim =
light.
>=20
> Of course, in the long run, you might be better of with a powerful =
laptop - which you could use for all three setup purposes.
>=20
> For your mobile and gig setup, you should also practice - just like =
practicing an instrument - setting up everyting. Optimize your setup =
steps (maybe write them down) and make it a habit to stick to them each =
time.
>=20
> I also recommend practicing with your gear in pitch black darkness. =
This way, you really get a feeling for your gear.
>=20
> Final thing: I wouldn't use electric tape on cables, get's really =
messy/nasty when you take it of after 2 years. I'd use simple plastic =
cable binders instead.
>=20
> Good luck and enjoy your music!
> Buzap
>=20


--Apple-Mail-3--560835769
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=us-ascii

<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">I =
always write replies and wait for the smart folks to answer first. =
&nbsp;Usually, everything I wanted to say gets said in a more clear, =
coherent way and my trumped replies gather dust in my 'Drafts' folder. =
&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>Indeed, Buzap covered most of my thoughts. =
&nbsp;Only addition is, in the US, we call 'em wire ties. &nbsp;That's =
the only way to go, otherwise your wires will get all gunky from =
tape.<div><br></div><div>GooGone gets it off, but don't know if it's =
good for the cable itself.</div><div><br></div><div>Get wire ties at =
Radio Shack, Home Depot etc.</div><div><br></div><div><div>For live =
performance, there is a company that sells yellow wire ties with a big =
tab for writing your name. &nbsp;Great when you use good and or =
expensive/hard to find cables. &nbsp;Has saved many a cable for me from =
stage hands in a hurry.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div><b><a =
href=3D"http://www.nelcoproducts.com">www.nelcoproducts.com</a></b></div><=
div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 8.5px/normal Courier; =
"><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" size=3D"3">Model or description - =
N-6AYE YL W/ON MARKER, 6"</font></div></div><div>You can only buy 'em by =
the 100, but they are only $21. &nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>You can =
also use these to identify bundles of cables in the =
studio.</div><div>I'd send you some but the postage from Canada would =
skew the cost for you. &nbsp;Better to order your own and share w =
friends.</div></div><div><br></div><div>As far as Buzap's comment on =
choosing to be a tech head or music person - it's a very important =
point. &nbsp;Equipment is a bottomless pit. &nbsp;What's confusing is, =
I've found that with better equipment it's easier to get good sound. =
&nbsp;Further confusion? debt can be a detriment to creativity because =
you always have to be earning $$$ to pay for the equipment. &nbsp;Plus, =
you can spend your life with your nose in manuals. =
&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Probably better to err on the side of =
'musician' than tech head - depending on your what brings you =
pleasure.</div><div><br></div><div>I'm swamped in equipment here, but =
consider myself more musician than tech head. &nbsp;I just don't learn =
EVERYTHING a piece can do, just what I need to learn to get done what I =
want to do. &nbsp;Over time, those other functions will be easier to =
grasp.<br><div>.....</div><div>Ergonomics of studio layout has taken me =
decades to sort out. &nbsp;I'm still not in a state of bliss about my =
setup, but I can work very fast now, and have a lot of power within =
arm's reach, without hunting for things or having to set things up. =
&nbsp;I like speed when recording - I move very fast. &nbsp;Don't like =
to lose ideas or inspiration looking for, setting up devices, rifling =
through junk etc. &nbsp;For me, keeping the studio extremely clean helps =
a lot. &nbsp;The more clutter, the harder to find things. &nbsp;Plus, =
dust and dirt shorten the life of faders, pots, &nbsp;patch bays =
etc.</div><div><br></div><div>At the end of every day I put stuff away; =
I sort of 'clean the work site'. &nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>The =
basic horse shoe arrangement has been my go to layout for years. =
&nbsp;Mixer center, processing stuff to the left and right of that, =
keyboards left and right of that. &nbsp;Guitar rig behind me. I still =
have to sit on the floor to adjust some stuff in racks. &nbsp;I see that =
in studios big and small, and am waiting for some genius to figure out a =
workaround. I tend to avoid that equipment for that reason, but it's =
stupid. &nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>In the studio I've run all the =
cables I can in wire troughs I built. &nbsp;I don't like the sight of =
wires. &nbsp;Stepping on wires can break them internally (learned that =
from Mike Gillies of Metallica recording crew). &nbsp;They can be simple =
wood boxes (with hole saw holes for wire entrance) running around the =
circumference, or work area, of your studio. &nbsp;Put all the wires =
that never change in them. &nbsp;Amazing how much it helps. &nbsp; I =
used red cedar I milled from fallen trees on our property here. =
&nbsp;It's very pretty. &nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Another =
alternative to rivers of dusty stepped on wires is =
tubing.</div><div><div>There are companies that sell wire tubing to hold =
bundles of wire in the studio. &nbsp;For =
ex:</div><div><br></div><div><b><a =
href=3D"http://www.cableorganizer.com/wire-loom/colored.html?green=3D0DE53=
E81-F6F3-5D6A-A310-D6128CB03668">http://www.cableorganizer.com/wire-loom/c=
olored.html?green=3D0DE53E81-F6F3-5D6A-A310-D6128CB03668</a></b></div></di=
v><div><br></div><div>For me, cluttered room =3D cluttered mind. =
&nbsp;Cluttered mind =3D cluttered music. &nbsp;Sometimes clutter in =
music is good, but it requires a lot of mix work for all the parts to =
stand out in the sea of stuff, so I arrange to avoid that usually. =
&nbsp; This, of course, could all be the rambling of a mad geezer going =
blind in the twilight of time. &nbsp;But it's a real pleasure to walk =
into a clean room and get right down to work, or wake up with an idea =
and, within minutes, be laying it down with all required tools within =
arm's reach.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Like you, I meditate to keep =
down clutter internally. &nbsp;Nice to have the studio reflect that =
state externally. &nbsp;Amazing how much it (both, actually) helps the =
music itself.</div><div><br></div><div>(Note - some like the mad =
scientist look - esp at first. &nbsp;I used to, till I sort of BECAME a =
mad scientist in a sea of chaos)</div><div><br></div><div>I keep the =
bulk of my cables in a cabinet. &nbsp;The cables I use frequently that =
aren't already connected, which are few, I have hanging on coat hooks in =
the back room. &nbsp;Definitely room for improvement in the back room. =
&nbsp;That's for the next remodel.</div><div><br></div><div>To give you =
an idea of my situation, yesterday I bought four big Totes for my excess =
wires. &nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>I have developed ways of =
preplanning room layout/ergonomics that I can send you if curious. =
&nbsp;Cheap, simple, fun. &nbsp;My current studio is beautiful but can =
disappear when the muse strikes - which is desirable. &nbsp; If you're =
good with Sketchup, that works great. &nbsp;I lost interest, ran out of =
'learning time', when they went 3D. &nbsp;Again, tech head vs =
musician.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Go to really good pro studios =
(or study Mix Magazine) and see how they've organized. &nbsp;That's a =
lot of how I learned.</div><div><br></div><div>Obviously, this is a =
topic I'm passionate about. &nbsp;Many less expensive studios are rats =
nests. &nbsp;Once you get used to organization, you tend to wanna get =
out of the chaos, and done, asap. &nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>I =
would think you want to be in a room that makes you feel good. =
&nbsp;It's well worth the effort and relatively little money required if =
you can use carpentry tools. &nbsp;If you can't, it's fun to learn and =
makes all of life more affordable (and attractive). &nbsp;Just watch =
those fingers!</div><div><br></div><div>But, again, the ramblings of a =
very long term, semi OCD, studio loon. &nbsp;When I was young, it didn't =
matter. &nbsp;I had all the time in the =
world.</div><div><br></div><div>No one does, but illusion is much easier =
at the head, or beginning, of a reel of =
tape.</div><div><br></div><div>R</div><div>
<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"Arial">richard sales</font></div><div><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#908E38"><a =
href=3D"http://www.glasswing.com">www.glasswing.com</a></font></div><div><=
font class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#908E38"><a =
href=3D"http://www.richardsales.com">www.richardsales.com</a></font></div>=
<div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#908E38"><a =
href=3D"http://www.hayleysales.com">www.hayleysales.com</a></font></div><d=
iv><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#908E38"><a =
href=3D"http://www.goodnaturefarms.com">www.goodnaturefarms.com</a></font>=
</div><div><br></div></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br><div><div>On Jan 9, 2013, at 3:08 PM, Buzap Buzap wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>Hi =
Kevin<br><br>yeah... it's soo tempting to shift up your gear...<br>There =
really comes a point where you _have_ to make a conscious choice if you =
are devoted to being a techie/gear geek or a musician/artist. Now, I =
hear all these people screaming: but you can be both! Well, to be =
honest, I can't. Because I can either focus on optimizing my =
musical/artistic expression (thus, living with whatever gear I have) or =
I can focus on optimizing my gear/setup (thus, accepting a steady state =
artistically).<br><br>While I'm tempted and love tweaking gear =
(hardware, software) - currently I'm just happy throwing out any =
computer/electronic gear, grabbing a simple instrument - or even better: =
just pen &amp; paper.<br><br>But getting back to your original question. =
Personally, I see three different settings with differenty - but =
possibly overlapping - requirements:<br>1.)Studio/Home =
Setup:<br>Everything should be wired ready, able to fire up instantly, =
supporting your natural workflow smoothly. High performance, enjoy =
working with.<br>2.) Mobile Setup (taking to friends/jams):<br>As =
simple, portable as possible, quick setup. Able to carry in backpack, =
public transport. Fun, less (gear) is more.<br>3.) Stage/Gig =
Setup:<br>Robust, reliable, flexible/fixable when necessary. Able to =
carry yourself (several steps), fits in car. Beer-proof, idiot-proof. =
Works for monitoring, FOH guy, PA, band etc. Able to control in dark/dim =
light.<br><br>Of course, in the long run, you might be better of with a =
powerful laptop - which you could use for all three setup =
purposes.<br><br>For your mobile and gig setup, you should also practice =
- just like practicing an instrument - setting up everyting. Optimize =
your setup steps (maybe write them down) and make it a habit to stick to =
them each time.<br><br>I also recommend practicing with your gear in =
pitch black darkness. This way, you really get a feeling for your =
gear.<br><br>Final thing: I wouldn't use electric tape on cables, get's =
really messy/nasty when you take it of after 2 years. I'd use simple =
plastic cable binders instead.<br><br>Good luck and enjoy your =
music!<br>Buzap<br><br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></body></h=
tml>=

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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 14:38:38 -0700
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Thanks Richard!

I never knew those cable ties existed.  I'll be certain to order some

Cheers
Steve

On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 1:49 PM, richard sales <richard@glasswing.com>wrote:

> I always write replies and wait for the smart folks to answer first.
>  Usually, everything I wanted to say gets said in a more clear, coherent
> way and my trumped replies gather dust in my 'Drafts' folder.
>
> Indeed, Buzap covered most of my thoughts.  Only addition is, in the US,
> we call 'em wire ties.  That's the only way to go, otherwise your wires
> will get all gunky from tape.
>
> GooGone gets it off, but don't know if it's good for the cable itself.
>
> Get wire ties at Radio Shack, Home Depot etc.
>
> For live performance, there is a company that sells yellow wire ties with
> a big tab for writing your name.  Great when you use good and or
> expensive/hard to find cables.  Has saved many a cable for me from stage
> hands in a hurry.
>
> *www.nelcoproducts.com*
> Model or description - N-6AYE YL W/ON MARKER, 6"
> You can only buy 'em by the 100, but they are only $21.
>
> You can also use these to identify bundles of cables in the studio.
> I'd send you some but the postage from Canada would skew the cost for you.
>  Better to order your own and share w friends.
>
> As far as Buzap's comment on choosing to be a tech head or music person -
> it's a very important point.  Equipment is a bottomless pit.  What's
> confusing is, I've found that with better equipment it's easier to get good
> sound.  Further confusion? debt can be a detriment to creativity because
> you always have to be earning $$$ to pay for the equipment.  Plus, you can
> spend your life with your nose in manuals.
>
> Probably better to err on the side of 'musician' than tech head -
> depending on your what brings you pleasure.
>
> I'm swamped in equipment here, but consider myself more musician than tech
> head.  I just don't learn EVERYTHING a piece can do, just what I need to
> learn to get done what I want to do.  Over time, those other functions will
> be easier to grasp.
> .....
> Ergonomics of studio layout has taken me decades to sort out.  I'm still
> not in a state of bliss about my setup, but I can work very fast now, and
> have a lot of power within arm's reach, without hunting for things or
> having to set things up.  I like speed when recording - I move very fast.
>  Don't like to lose ideas or inspiration looking for, setting up devices,
> rifling through junk etc.  For me, keeping the studio extremely clean helps
> a lot.  The more clutter, the harder to find things.  Plus, dust and dirt
> shorten the life of faders, pots,  patch bays etc.
>
> At the end of every day I put stuff away; I sort of 'clean the work site'.
>
>
> The basic horse shoe arrangement has been my go to layout for years.
>  Mixer center, processing stuff to the left and right of that, keyboards
> left and right of that.  Guitar rig behind me. I still have to sit on the
> floor to adjust some stuff in racks.  I see that in studios big and small,
> and am waiting for some genius to figure out a workaround. I tend to avoid
> that equipment for that reason, but it's stupid.
>
> In the studio I've run all the cables I can in wire troughs I built.  I
> don't like the sight of wires.  Stepping on wires can break them internally
> (learned that from Mike Gillies of Metallica recording crew).  They can be
> simple wood boxes (with hole saw holes for wire entrance) running around
> the circumference, or work area, of your studio.  Put all the wires that
> never change in them.  Amazing how much it helps.   I used red cedar I
> milled from fallen trees on our property here.  It's very pretty.
>
> Another alternative to rivers of dusty stepped on wires is tubing.
> There are companies that sell wire tubing to hold bundles of wire in the
> studio.  For ex:
>
> *
> http://www.cableorganizer.com/wire-loom/colored.html?green=0DE53E81-F6F3-5D6A-A310-D6128CB03668
> *
>
> For me, cluttered room = cluttered mind.  Cluttered mind = cluttered
> music.  Sometimes clutter in music is good, but it requires a lot of mix
> work for all the parts to stand out in the sea of stuff, so I arrange to
> avoid that usually.   This, of course, could all be the rambling of a mad
> geezer going blind in the twilight of time.  But it's a real pleasure to
> walk into a clean room and get right down to work, or wake up with an idea
> and, within minutes, be laying it down with all required tools within arm's
> reach.
>
> Like you, I meditate to keep down clutter internally.  Nice to have the
> studio reflect that state externally.  Amazing how much it (both, actually)
> helps the music itself.
>
> (Note - some like the mad scientist look - esp at first.  I used to, till
> I sort of BECAME a mad scientist in a sea of chaos)
>
> I keep the bulk of my cables in a cabinet.  The cables I use frequently
> that aren't already connected, which are few, I have hanging on coat hooks
> in the back room.  Definitely room for improvement in the back room.
>  That's for the next remodel.
>
> To give you an idea of my situation, yesterday I bought four big Totes for
> my excess wires.
>
> I have developed ways of preplanning room layout/ergonomics that I can
> send you if curious.  Cheap, simple, fun.  My current studio is beautiful
> but can disappear when the muse strikes - which is desirable.   If you're
> good with Sketchup, that works great.  I lost interest, ran out of
> 'learning time', when they went 3D.  Again, tech head vs musician.
>
> Go to really good pro studios (or study Mix Magazine) and see how they've
> organized.  That's a lot of how I learned.
>
> Obviously, this is a topic I'm passionate about.  Many less expensive
> studios are rats nests.  Once you get used to organization, you tend to
> wanna get out of the chaos, and done, asap.
>
> I would think you want to be in a room that makes you feel good.  It's
> well worth the effort and relatively little money required if you can use
> carpentry tools.  If you can't, it's fun to learn and makes all of life
> more affordable (and attractive).  Just watch those fingers!
>
> But, again, the ramblings of a very long term, semi OCD, studio loon.
>  When I was young, it didn't matter.  I had all the time in the world.
>
> No one does, but illusion is much easier at the head, or beginning, of a
> reel of tape.
>
> R
>     richard sales
> www.glasswing.com
> www.richardsales.com
> www.hayleysales.com
> www.goodnaturefarms.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jan 9, 2013, at 3:08 PM, Buzap Buzap wrote:
>
> Hi Kevin
>
> yeah... it's soo tempting to shift up your gear...
> There really comes a point where you _have_ to make a conscious choice if
> you are devoted to being a techie/gear geek or a musician/artist. Now, I
> hear all these people screaming: but you can be both! Well, to be honest, I
> can't. Because I can either focus on optimizing my musical/artistic
> expression (thus, living with whatever gear I have) or I can focus on
> optimizing my gear/setup (thus, accepting a steady state artistically).
>
> While I'm tempted and love tweaking gear (hardware, software) - currently
> I'm just happy throwing out any computer/electronic gear, grabbing a simple
> instrument - or even better: just pen & paper.
>
> But getting back to your original question. Personally, I see three
> different settings with differenty - but possibly overlapping -
> requirements:
> 1.)Studio/Home Setup:
> Everything should be wired ready, able to fire up instantly, supporting
> your natural workflow smoothly. High performance, enjoy working with.
> 2.) Mobile Setup (taking to friends/jams):
> As simple, portable as possible, quick setup. Able to carry in backpack,
> public transport. Fun, less (gear) is more.
> 3.) Stage/Gig Setup:
> Robust, reliable, flexible/fixable when necessary. Able to carry yourself
> (several steps), fits in car. Beer-proof, idiot-proof. Works for
> monitoring, FOH guy, PA, band etc. Able to control in dark/dim light.
>
> Of course, in the long run, you might be better of with a powerful laptop
> - which you could use for all three setup purposes.
>
> For your mobile and gig setup, you should also practice - just like
> practicing an instrument - setting up everyting. Optimize your setup steps
> (maybe write them down) and make it a habit to stick to them each time.
>
> I also recommend practicing with your gear in pitch black darkness. This
> way, you really get a feeling for your gear.
>
> Final thing: I wouldn't use electric tape on cables, get's really
> messy/nasty when you take it of after 2 years. I'd use simple plastic cable
> binders instead.
>
> Good luck and enjoy your music!
> Buzap
>
>
>

--e0cb4efe315ed6657d04d2f6023f
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks Richard!<br><br>I never knew those cable ties existed.=C2=A0 I&#39;l=
l be certain to order some <br><br>Cheers<br>Steve<br><br><div class=3D"gma=
il_quote">On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 1:49 PM, richard sales <span dir=3D"ltr">=
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:richard@glasswing.com" target=3D"_blank">richard@glas=
swing.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">I always=
 write replies and wait for the smart folks to answer first. =C2=A0Usually,=
 everything I wanted to say gets said in a more clear, coherent way and my =
trumped replies gather dust in my &#39;Drafts&#39; folder. =C2=A0<div>

<br></div><div>Indeed, Buzap covered most of my thoughts. =C2=A0Only additi=
on is, in the US, we call &#39;em wire ties. =C2=A0That&#39;s the only way =
to go, otherwise your wires will get all gunky from tape.<div><br></div><di=
v>GooGone gets it off, but don&#39;t know if it&#39;s good for the cable it=
self.</div>

<div><br></div><div>Get wire ties at Radio Shack, Home Depot etc.</div><div=
><br></div><div><div>For live performance, there is a company that sells ye=
llow wire ties with a big tab for writing your name. =C2=A0Great when you u=
se good and or expensive/hard to find cables. =C2=A0Has saved many a cable =
for me from stage hands in a hurry.=C2=A0</div>

<div><br></div><div><b><a href=3D"http://www.nelcoproducts.com" target=3D"_=
blank">www.nelcoproducts.com</a></b></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top:0px=
;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;font:normal normal norm=
al 8.5px/normal Courier">

<font size=3D"3">Model or description - N-6AYE YL W/ON MARKER, 6&quot;</fon=
t></div></div><div>You can only buy &#39;em by the 100, but they are only $=
21. =C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>You can also use these to identify bund=
les of cables in the studio.</div>

<div>I&#39;d send you some but the postage from Canada would skew the cost =
for you. =C2=A0Better to order your own and share w friends.</div></div><di=
v><br></div><div>As far as Buzap&#39;s comment on choosing to be a tech hea=
d or music person - it&#39;s a very important point. =C2=A0Equipment is a b=
ottomless pit. =C2=A0What&#39;s confusing is, I&#39;ve found that with bett=
er equipment it&#39;s easier to get good sound. =C2=A0Further confusion? de=
bt can be a detriment to creativity because you always have to be earning $=
$$ to pay for the equipment. =C2=A0Plus, you can spend your life with your =
nose in manuals. =C2=A0</div>

<div><br></div><div>Probably better to err on the side of &#39;musician&#39=
; than tech head - depending on your what brings you pleasure.</div><div><b=
r></div><div>I&#39;m swamped in equipment here, but consider myself more mu=
sician than tech head. =C2=A0I just don&#39;t learn EVERYTHING a piece can =
do, just what I need to learn to get done what I want to do. =C2=A0Over tim=
e, those other functions will be easier to grasp.<br>

<div>.....</div><div>Ergonomics of studio layout has taken me decades to so=
rt out. =C2=A0I&#39;m still not in a state of bliss about my setup, but I c=
an work very fast now, and have a lot of power within arm&#39;s reach, with=
out hunting for things or having to set things up. =C2=A0I like speed when =
recording - I move very fast. =C2=A0Don&#39;t like to lose ideas or inspira=
tion looking for, setting up devices, rifling through junk etc. =C2=A0For m=
e, keeping the studio extremely clean helps a lot. =C2=A0The more clutter, =
the harder to find things. =C2=A0Plus, dust and dirt shorten the life of fa=
ders, pots, =C2=A0patch bays etc.</div>

<div><br></div><div>At the end of every day I put stuff away; I sort of &#3=
9;clean the work site&#39;. =C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>The basic horse=
 shoe arrangement has been my go to layout for years. =C2=A0Mixer center, p=
rocessing stuff to the left and right of that, keyboards left and right of =
that. =C2=A0Guitar rig behind me. I still have to sit on the floor to adjus=
t some stuff in racks. =C2=A0I see that in studios big and small, and am wa=
iting for some genius to figure out a workaround. I tend to avoid that equi=
pment for that reason, but it&#39;s stupid. =C2=A0</div>

<div><br></div><div>In the studio I&#39;ve run all the cables I can in wire=
 troughs I built. =C2=A0I don&#39;t like the sight of wires. =C2=A0Stepping=
 on wires can break them internally (learned that from Mike Gillies of Meta=
llica recording crew). =C2=A0They can be simple wood boxes (with hole saw h=
oles for wire entrance) running around the circumference, or work area, of =
your studio. =C2=A0Put all the wires that never change in them. =C2=A0Amazi=
ng how much it helps. =C2=A0 I used red cedar I milled from fallen trees on=
 our property here. =C2=A0It&#39;s very pretty. =C2=A0</div>

<div><br></div><div>Another alternative to rivers of dusty stepped on wires=
 is tubing.</div><div><div>There are companies that sell wire tubing to hol=
d bundles of wire in the studio. =C2=A0For ex:</div><div><br></div><div><b>=
<a href=3D"http://www.cableorganizer.com/wire-loom/colored.html?green=3D0DE=
53E81-F6F3-5D6A-A310-D6128CB03668" target=3D"_blank">http://www.cableorgani=
zer.com/wire-loom/colored.html?green=3D0DE53E81-F6F3-5D6A-A310-D6128CB03668=
</a></b></div>

</div><div><br></div><div>For me, cluttered room =3D cluttered mind. =C2=A0=
Cluttered mind =3D cluttered music. =C2=A0Sometimes clutter in music is goo=
d, but it requires a lot of mix work for all the parts to stand out in the =
sea of stuff, so I arrange to avoid that usually. =C2=A0 This, of course, c=
ould all be the rambling of a mad geezer going blind in the twilight of tim=
e. =C2=A0But it&#39;s a real pleasure to walk into a clean room and get rig=
ht down to work, or wake up with an idea and, within minutes, be laying it =
down with all required tools within arm&#39;s reach.=C2=A0</div>

<div><br></div><div>Like you, I meditate to keep down clutter internally. =
=C2=A0Nice to have the studio reflect that state externally. =C2=A0Amazing =
how much it (both, actually) helps the music itself.</div><div><br></div><d=
iv>(Note - some like the mad scientist look - esp at first. =C2=A0I used to=
, till I sort of BECAME a mad scientist in a sea of chaos)</div>

<div><br></div><div>I keep the bulk of my cables in a cabinet. =C2=A0The ca=
bles I use frequently that aren&#39;t already connected, which are few, I h=
ave hanging on coat hooks in the back room. =C2=A0Definitely room for impro=
vement in the back room. =C2=A0That&#39;s for the next remodel.</div>

<div><br></div><div>To give you an idea of my situation, yesterday I bought=
 four big Totes for my excess wires. =C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>I have=
 developed ways of preplanning room layout/ergonomics that I can send you i=
f curious. =C2=A0Cheap, simple, fun. =C2=A0My current studio is beautiful b=
ut can disappear when the muse strikes - which is desirable. =C2=A0 If you&=
#39;re good with Sketchup, that works great. =C2=A0I lost interest, ran out=
 of &#39;learning time&#39;, when they went 3D. =C2=A0Again, tech head vs m=
usician.=C2=A0</div>

<div><br></div><div>Go to really good pro studios (or study Mix Magazine) a=
nd see how they&#39;ve organized. =C2=A0That&#39;s a lot of how I learned.<=
/div><div><br></div><div>Obviously, this is a topic I&#39;m passionate abou=
t. =C2=A0Many less expensive studios are rats nests. =C2=A0Once you get use=
d to organization, you tend to wanna get out of the chaos, and done, asap. =
=C2=A0</div>

<div><br></div><div>I would think you want to be in a room that makes you f=
eel good. =C2=A0It&#39;s well worth the effort and relatively little money =
required if you can use carpentry tools. =C2=A0If you can&#39;t, it&#39;s f=
un to learn and makes all of life more affordable (and attractive). =C2=A0J=
ust watch those fingers!</div>

<div><br></div><div>But, again, the ramblings of a very long term, semi OCD=
, studio loon. =C2=A0When I was young, it didn&#39;t matter. =C2=A0I had al=
l the time in the world.</div><div><br></div><div>No one does, but illusion=
 is much easier at the head, or beginning, of a reel of tape.</div>

<div><br></div><div>R</div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><=
div>
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><span style=3D"text-indent:0px;letter-s=
pacing:normal;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line=
-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;font-size:mediu=
m;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px"><div style=3D"=
word-wrap:break-word">

<span style=3D"text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;fo=
nt-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separ=
ate;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Hel=
vetica;word-spacing:0px"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">

<span style=3D"text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;fo=
nt-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separ=
ate;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Hel=
vetica;word-spacing:0px"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">

<span style=3D"text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;fo=
nt-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separ=
ate;text-transform:none;font-size:18px;white-space:normal;font-family:Helve=
tica;word-spacing:0px"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">

<span style=3D"text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;fo=
nt-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separ=
ate;text-transform:none;font-size:18px;white-space:normal;font-family:Helve=
tica;word-spacing:0px"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">

<span style=3D"text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;fo=
nt-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separ=
ate;text-transform:none;font-size:12px;white-space:normal;font-family:Helve=
tica;word-spacing:0px"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">

<span style=3D"text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;fo=
nt-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separ=
ate;text-transform:none;font-size:12px;white-space:normal;font-family:Helve=
tica;word-spacing:0px"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">

<div><font face=3D"Arial">richard sales</font></div><div><font color=3D"#90=
8E38"><a href=3D"http://www.glasswing.com" target=3D"_blank">www.glasswing.=
com</a></font></div><div><font color=3D"#908E38"><a href=3D"http://www.rich=
ardsales.com" target=3D"_blank">www.richardsales.com</a></font></div>

<div><font color=3D"#908E38"><a href=3D"http://www.hayleysales.com" target=
=3D"_blank">www.hayleysales.com</a></font></div><div><font color=3D"#908E38=
"><a href=3D"http://www.goodnaturefarms.com" target=3D"_blank">www.goodnatu=
refarms.com</a></font></div>

<div><br></div></div></span><br></div></span><br></div></span><br></div></s=
pan><br></div></span><br></div></span><br></div></span><br></div><br><br>
</div></font></span><div><div class=3D"h5">
<br><div><div>On Jan 9, 2013, at 3:08 PM, Buzap Buzap wrote:</div><br><bloc=
kquote type=3D"cite"><div>Hi Kevin<br><br>yeah... it&#39;s soo tempting to =
shift up your gear...<br>There really comes a point where you _have_ to mak=
e a conscious choice if you are devoted to being a techie/gear geek or a mu=
sician/artist. Now, I hear all these people screaming: but you can be both!=
 Well, to be honest, I can&#39;t. Because I can either focus on optimizing =
my musical/artistic expression (thus, living with whatever gear I have) or =
I can focus on optimizing my gear/setup (thus, accepting a steady state art=
istically).<br>

<br>While I&#39;m tempted and love tweaking gear (hardware, software) - cur=
rently I&#39;m just happy throwing out any computer/electronic gear, grabbi=
ng a simple instrument - or even better: just pen &amp; paper.<br><br>
But getting back to your original question. Personally, I see three differe=
nt settings with differenty - but possibly overlapping - requirements:<br>
1.)Studio/Home Setup:<br>Everything should be wired ready, able to fire up =
instantly, supporting your natural workflow smoothly. High performance, enj=
oy working with.<br>2.) Mobile Setup (taking to friends/jams):<br>As simple=
, portable as possible, quick setup. Able to carry in backpack, public tran=
sport. Fun, less (gear) is more.<br>

3.) Stage/Gig Setup:<br>Robust, reliable, flexible/fixable when necessary. =
Able to carry yourself (several steps), fits in car. Beer-proof, idiot-proo=
f. Works for monitoring, FOH guy, PA, band etc. Able to control in dark/dim=
 light.<br>

<br>Of course, in the long run, you might be better of with a powerful lapt=
op - which you could use for all three setup purposes.<br><br>For your mobi=
le and gig setup, you should also practice - just like practicing an instru=
ment - setting up everyting. Optimize your setup steps (maybe write them do=
wn) and make it a habit to stick to them each time.<br>

<br>I also recommend practicing with your gear in pitch black darkness. Thi=
s way, you really get a feeling for your gear.<br><br>Final thing: I wouldn=
&#39;t use electric tape on cables, get&#39;s really messy/nasty when you t=
ake it of after 2 years. I&#39;d use simple plastic cable binders instead.<=
br>

<br>Good luck and enjoy your music!<br>Buzap<br><br></div></blockquote></di=
v><br></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br>

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Love to see a pic of your Studio Richard! My God that sounds like the
set-up I tell my wife I want...
I HAD a room.. with gear in... not in a nice horseshoe, things piled on top
of other things, half built art in the corner... CDs, records, half drum
kits, old TVs, My trusty Amiga...  It was a mess, but it was nice to be
in.. a nice mess!

Now I rent that house, and have locked that door, so not I have small desk,
with a few things on the corner... 2 EDPS a mixer and a few stomps ...
again all piled on top of each other.. an awful mess... I took the most
vital things out of my rack, and am going to  build (this
Sunday.. definitely... no excuses...) a lightweight aluminium frame/rack...
that will just about fit in a suitcase... stuffed with soft thigns...
Im doing a gig in Italy in February... so its a nice chance to try
something minimal out... Its interesting... So... I must say, although I=B4=
m
jealous of people with tidy studios, I kinda like it a bit messy... means
Im not averse to changing stuff around... For six months I only played my
guitar through a synthesiser... I thought that was what I was gonna to
forever... stopped.. and havent done it for years... For that last 2 years
Ive been a post loop processor,  (who cares what goes in, its how you tweak
it that counts) Now IM discovering the fun in just looping like a tape
machine, and getting the sound in the guitar processing or PRE loop...

As for tips for gear organization... wrong man to ask, but I am  bit sick
of cable ties (meaning the permanent ones that pull a sawtoothed strip thru
a hole, cos they are quite sharp! I have cable tied my hex pickup lead, a
reglar guitar lead and a 9V power cable (that powers my guitar) all
together, with cable ties... I cut my fingers EVERY time I coil that
bastard... Im considering finger knitting a a colourfull long sock of many
colours!

M



On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 9:49 PM, richard sales <richard@glasswing.com>wrote=
:

> I always write replies and wait for the smart folks to answer first.
>  Usually, everything I wanted to say gets said in a more clear, coherent
> way and my trumped replies gather dust in my 'Drafts' folder.
>
> Indeed, Buzap covered most of my thoughts.  Only addition is, in the US,
> we call 'em wire ties.  That's the only way to go, otherwise your wires
> will get all gunky from tape.
>
> GooGone gets it off, but don't know if it's good for the cable itself.
>
> Get wire ties at Radio Shack, Home Depot etc.
>
> For live performance, there is a company that sells yellow wire ties with
> a big tab for writing your name.  Great when you use good and or
> expensive/hard to find cables.  Has saved many a cable for me from stage
> hands in a hurry.
>
> *www.nelcoproducts.com*
> Model or description - N-6AYE YL W/ON MARKER, 6"
> You can only buy 'em by the 100, but they are only $21.
>
> You can also use these to identify bundles of cables in the studio.
> I'd send you some but the postage from Canada would skew the cost for you=
.
>  Better to order your own and share w friends.
>
> As far as Buzap's comment on choosing to be a tech head or music person -
> it's a very important point.  Equipment is a bottomless pit.  What's
> confusing is, I've found that with better equipment it's easier to get go=
od
> sound.  Further confusion? debt can be a detriment to creativity because
> you always have to be earning $$$ to pay for the equipment.  Plus, you ca=
n
> spend your life with your nose in manuals.
>
> Probably better to err on the side of 'musician' than tech head -
> depending on your what brings you pleasure.
>
> I'm swamped in equipment here, but consider myself more musician than tec=
h
> head.  I just don't learn EVERYTHING a piece can do, just what I need to
> learn to get done what I want to do.  Over time, those other functions wi=
ll
> be easier to grasp.
> .....
> Ergonomics of studio layout has taken me decades to sort out.  I'm still
> not in a state of bliss about my setup, but I can work very fast now, and
> have a lot of power within arm's reach, without hunting for things or
> having to set things up.  I like speed when recording - I move very fast.
>  Don't like to lose ideas or inspiration looking for, setting up devices,
> rifling through junk etc.  For me, keeping the studio extremely clean hel=
ps
> a lot.  The more clutter, the harder to find things.  Plus, dust and dirt
> shorten the life of faders, pots,  patch bays etc.
>
> At the end of every day I put stuff away; I sort of 'clean the work site'=
.
>
>
> The basic horse shoe arrangement has been my go to layout for years.
>  Mixer center, processing stuff to the left and right of that, keyboards
> left and right of that.  Guitar rig behind me. I still have to sit on the
> floor to adjust some stuff in racks.  I see that in studios big and small=
,
> and am waiting for some genius to figure out a workaround. I tend to avoi=
d
> that equipment for that reason, but it's stupid.
>
> In the studio I've run all the cables I can in wire troughs I built.  I
> don't like the sight of wires.  Stepping on wires can break them internal=
ly
> (learned that from Mike Gillies of Metallica recording crew).  They can b=
e
> simple wood boxes (with hole saw holes for wire entrance) running around
> the circumference, or work area, of your studio.  Put all the wires that
> never change in them.  Amazing how much it helps.   I used red cedar I
> milled from fallen trees on our property here.  It's very pretty.
>
> Another alternative to rivers of dusty stepped on wires is tubing.
> There are companies that sell wire tubing to hold bundles of wire in the
> studio.  For ex:
>
> *
> http://www.cableorganizer.com/wire-loom/colored.html?green=3D0DE53E81-F6F=
3-5D6A-A310-D6128CB03668
> *
>
> For me, cluttered room =3D cluttered mind.  Cluttered mind =3D cluttered
> music.  Sometimes clutter in music is good, but it requires a lot of mix
> work for all the parts to stand out in the sea of stuff, so I arrange to
> avoid that usually.   This, of course, could all be the rambling of a mad
> geezer going blind in the twilight of time.  But it's a real pleasure to
> walk into a clean room and get right down to work, or wake up with an ide=
a
> and, within minutes, be laying it down with all required tools within arm=
's
> reach.
>
> Like you, I meditate to keep down clutter internally.  Nice to have the
> studio reflect that state externally.  Amazing how much it (both, actuall=
y)
> helps the music itself.
>
> (Note - some like the mad scientist look - esp at first.  I used to, till
> I sort of BECAME a mad scientist in a sea of chaos)
>
> I keep the bulk of my cables in a cabinet.  The cables I use frequently
> that aren't already connected, which are few, I have hanging on coat hook=
s
> in the back room.  Definitely room for improvement in the back room.
>  That's for the next remodel.
>
> To give you an idea of my situation, yesterday I bought four big Totes fo=
r
> my excess wires.
>
> I have developed ways of preplanning room layout/ergonomics that I can
> send you if curious.  Cheap, simple, fun.  My current studio is beautiful
> but can disappear when the muse strikes - which is desirable.   If you're
> good with Sketchup, that works great.  I lost interest, ran out of
> 'learning time', when they went 3D.  Again, tech head vs musician.
>
> Go to really good pro studios (or study Mix Magazine) and see how they've
> organized.  That's a lot of how I learned.
>
> Obviously, this is a topic I'm passionate about.  Many less expensive
> studios are rats nests.  Once you get used to organization, you tend to
> wanna get out of the chaos, and done, asap.
>
> I would think you want to be in a room that makes you feel good.  It's
> well worth the effort and relatively little money required if you can use
> carpentry tools.  If you can't, it's fun to learn and makes all of life
> more affordable (and attractive).  Just watch those fingers!
>
> But, again, the ramblings of a very long term, semi OCD, studio loon.
>  When I was young, it didn't matter.  I had all the time in the world.
>
> No one does, but illusion is much easier at the head, or beginning, of a
> reel of tape.
>
> R
>     richard sales
> www.glasswing.com
> www.richardsales.com
> www.hayleysales.com
> www.goodnaturefarms.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jan 9, 2013, at 3:08 PM, Buzap Buzap wrote:
>
> Hi Kevin
>
> yeah... it's soo tempting to shift up your gear...
> There really comes a point where you _have_ to make a conscious choice if
> you are devoted to being a techie/gear geek or a musician/artist. Now, I
> hear all these people screaming: but you can be both! Well, to be honest,=
 I
> can't. Because I can either focus on optimizing my musical/artistic
> expression (thus, living with whatever gear I have) or I can focus on
> optimizing my gear/setup (thus, accepting a steady state artistically).
>
> While I'm tempted and love tweaking gear (hardware, software) - currently
> I'm just happy throwing out any computer/electronic gear, grabbing a simp=
le
> instrument - or even better: just pen & paper.
>
> But getting back to your original question. Personally, I see three
> different settings with differenty - but possibly overlapping -
> requirements:
> 1.)Studio/Home Setup:
> Everything should be wired ready, able to fire up instantly, supporting
> your natural workflow smoothly. High performance, enjoy working with.
> 2.) Mobile Setup (taking to friends/jams):
> As simple, portable as possible, quick setup. Able to carry in backpack,
> public transport. Fun, less (gear) is more.
> 3.) Stage/Gig Setup:
> Robust, reliable, flexible/fixable when necessary. Able to carry yourself
> (several steps), fits in car. Beer-proof, idiot-proof. Works for
> monitoring, FOH guy, PA, band etc. Able to control in dark/dim light.
>
> Of course, in the long run, you might be better of with a powerful laptop
> - which you could use for all three setup purposes.
>
> For your mobile and gig setup, you should also practice - just like
> practicing an instrument - setting up everyting. Optimize your setup step=
s
> (maybe write them down) and make it a habit to stick to them each time.
>
> I also recommend practicing with your gear in pitch black darkness. This
> way, you really get a feeling for your gear.
>
> Final thing: I wouldn't use electric tape on cables, get's really
> messy/nasty when you take it of after 2 years. I'd use simple plastic cab=
le
> binders instead.
>
> Good luck and enjoy your music!
> Buzap
>
>
>


--=20
*Mark Francombe*
www.markfrancombe.com
www.ordoabkhao.com
http://vimeo.com/user825094
http://www.looop.no
twitter @markfrancombe
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/

--047d7b33900312ad3704d2f607fd
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Love to see a pic of your Studio Richard! My God that soun=
ds like the set-up I tell my wife I want...=A0<div style>I HAD a room.. wit=
h gear in... not in a nice horseshoe, things piled on top of other things, =
half built art in the corner... CDs, records, half drum kits, old TVs, My t=
rusty Amiga... =A0It was a mess, but it was nice to be in.. a nice mess!</d=
iv>

<div style><br></div><div style>Now I rent that house, and have locked that=
 door, so not I have small desk, with a few things on the corner... 2 EDPS =
a mixer and a few stomps ... again all piled on top of each other.. an awfu=
l mess... I took the most vital things out of my rack, and am going to =A0b=
uild (this Sunday..=A0definitely... no excuses...) a lightweight aluminium =
frame/rack... that will just about fit in a suitcase... stuffed with soft t=
higns...=A0</div>

<div style>Im doing a gig in Italy in February... so its a nice chance to t=
ry something minimal out... Its interesting... So... I must say, although I=
=B4m jealous of people with tidy studios, I kinda like it a bit messy... me=
ans Im not averse to changing stuff around... For six months I only played =
my guitar through a synthesiser... I thought that was what I was gonna to f=
orever... stopped.. and havent done it for years... For that last 2 years I=
ve been a post loop processor, =A0(who cares what goes in, its how you twea=
k it that counts) Now IM discovering the fun in just looping like a tape ma=
chine, and getting the sound in the guitar processing or PRE loop...=A0</di=
v>

<div style><br></div><div style>As for tips for gear organization... wrong =
man to ask, but I am =A0bit sick of cable ties (meaning the permanent ones =
that pull a sawtoothed strip thru a hole, cos they are quite sharp! I have =
cable tied my hex pickup lead, a reglar guitar lead and a 9V power cable (t=
hat powers my guitar) all together, with cable ties... I cut my fingers EVE=
RY time I coil that bastard... Im considering finger knitting a a colourful=
l long sock of many colours!</div>

<div style><br></div><div style>M</div><div style><br></div></div><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 a=
t 9:49 PM, richard sales <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:richard@gl=
asswing.com" target=3D"_blank">richard@glasswing.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<=
br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">I always=
 write replies and wait for the smart folks to answer first. =A0Usually, ev=
erything I wanted to say gets said in a more clear, coherent way and my tru=
mped replies gather dust in my &#39;Drafts&#39; folder. =A0<div>

<br></div><div>Indeed, Buzap covered most of my thoughts. =A0Only addition =
is, in the US, we call &#39;em wire ties. =A0That&#39;s the only way to go,=
 otherwise your wires will get all gunky from tape.<div><br></div><div>GooG=
one gets it off, but don&#39;t know if it&#39;s good for the cable itself.<=
/div>

<div><br></div><div>Get wire ties at Radio Shack, Home Depot etc.</div><div=
><br></div><div><div>For live performance, there is a company that sells ye=
llow wire ties with a big tab for writing your name. =A0Great when you use =
good and or expensive/hard to find cables. =A0Has saved many a cable for me=
 from stage hands in a hurry.=A0</div>

<div><br></div><div><b><a href=3D"http://www.nelcoproducts.com" target=3D"_=
blank">www.nelcoproducts.com</a></b></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top:0px=
;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;font:normal normal norm=
al 8.5px/normal Courier">

<font size=3D"3">Model or description - N-6AYE YL W/ON MARKER, 6&quot;</fon=
t></div></div><div>You can only buy &#39;em by the 100, but they are only $=
21. =A0</div><div><br></div><div>You can also use these to identify bundles=
 of cables in the studio.</div>

<div>I&#39;d send you some but the postage from Canada would skew the cost =
for you. =A0Better to order your own and share w friends.</div></div><div><=
br></div><div>As far as Buzap&#39;s comment on choosing to be a tech head o=
r music person - it&#39;s a very important point. =A0Equipment is a bottoml=
ess pit. =A0What&#39;s confusing is, I&#39;ve found that with better equipm=
ent it&#39;s easier to get good sound. =A0Further confusion? debt can be a =
detriment to creativity because you always have to be earning $$$ to pay fo=
r the equipment. =A0Plus, you can spend your life with your nose in manuals=
. =A0</div>

<div><br></div><div>Probably better to err on the side of &#39;musician&#39=
; than tech head - depending on your what brings you pleasure.</div><div><b=
r></div><div>I&#39;m swamped in equipment here, but consider myself more mu=
sician than tech head. =A0I just don&#39;t learn EVERYTHING a piece can do,=
 just what I need to learn to get done what I want to do. =A0Over time, tho=
se other functions will be easier to grasp.<br>

<div>.....</div><div>Ergonomics of studio layout has taken me decades to so=
rt out. =A0I&#39;m still not in a state of bliss about my setup, but I can =
work very fast now, and have a lot of power within arm&#39;s reach, without=
 hunting for things or having to set things up. =A0I like speed when record=
ing - I move very fast. =A0Don&#39;t like to lose ideas or inspiration look=
ing for, setting up devices, rifling through junk etc. =A0For me, keeping t=
he studio extremely clean helps a lot. =A0The more clutter, the harder to f=
ind things. =A0Plus, dust and dirt shorten the life of faders, pots, =A0pat=
ch bays etc.</div>

<div><br></div><div>At the end of every day I put stuff away; I sort of &#3=
9;clean the work site&#39;. =A0</div><div><br></div><div>The basic horse sh=
oe arrangement has been my go to layout for years. =A0Mixer center, process=
ing stuff to the left and right of that, keyboards left and right of that. =
=A0Guitar rig behind me. I still have to sit on the floor to adjust some st=
uff in racks. =A0I see that in studios big and small, and am waiting for so=
me genius to figure out a workaround. I tend to avoid that equipment for th=
at reason, but it&#39;s stupid. =A0</div>

<div><br></div><div>In the studio I&#39;ve run all the cables I can in wire=
 troughs I built. =A0I don&#39;t like the sight of wires. =A0Stepping on wi=
res can break them internally (learned that from Mike Gillies of Metallica =
recording crew). =A0They can be simple wood boxes (with hole saw holes for =
wire entrance) running around the circumference, or work area, of your stud=
io. =A0Put all the wires that never change in them. =A0Amazing how much it =
helps. =A0 I used red cedar I milled from fallen trees on our property here=
. =A0It&#39;s very pretty. =A0</div>

<div><br></div><div>Another alternative to rivers of dusty stepped on wires=
 is tubing.</div><div><div>There are companies that sell wire tubing to hol=
d bundles of wire in the studio. =A0For ex:</div><div><br></div><div><b><a =
href=3D"http://www.cableorganizer.com/wire-loom/colored.html?green=3D0DE53E=
81-F6F3-5D6A-A310-D6128CB03668" target=3D"_blank">http://www.cableorganizer=
.com/wire-loom/colored.html?green=3D0DE53E81-F6F3-5D6A-A310-D6128CB03668</a=
></b></div>

</div><div><br></div><div>For me, cluttered room =3D cluttered mind. =A0Clu=
ttered mind =3D cluttered music. =A0Sometimes clutter in music is good, but=
 it requires a lot of mix work for all the parts to stand out in the sea of=
 stuff, so I arrange to avoid that usually. =A0 This, of course, could all =
be the rambling of a mad geezer going blind in the twilight of time. =A0But=
 it&#39;s a real pleasure to walk into a clean room and get right down to w=
ork, or wake up with an idea and, within minutes, be laying it down with al=
l required tools within arm&#39;s reach.=A0</div>

<div><br></div><div>Like you, I meditate to keep down clutter internally. =
=A0Nice to have the studio reflect that state externally. =A0Amazing how mu=
ch it (both, actually) helps the music itself.</div><div><br></div><div>(No=
te - some like the mad scientist look - esp at first. =A0I used to, till I =
sort of BECAME a mad scientist in a sea of chaos)</div>

<div><br></div><div>I keep the bulk of my cables in a cabinet. =A0The cable=
s I use frequently that aren&#39;t already connected, which are few, I have=
 hanging on coat hooks in the back room. =A0Definitely room for improvement=
 in the back room. =A0That&#39;s for the next remodel.</div>

<div><br></div><div>To give you an idea of my situation, yesterday I bought=
 four big Totes for my excess wires. =A0</div><div><br></div><div>I have de=
veloped ways of preplanning room layout/ergonomics that I can send you if c=
urious. =A0Cheap, simple, fun. =A0My current studio is beautiful but can di=
sappear when the muse strikes - which is desirable. =A0 If you&#39;re good =
with Sketchup, that works great. =A0I lost interest, ran out of &#39;learni=
ng time&#39;, when they went 3D. =A0Again, tech head vs musician.=A0</div>

<div><br></div><div>Go to really good pro studios (or study Mix Magazine) a=
nd see how they&#39;ve organized. =A0That&#39;s a lot of how I learned.</di=
v><div><br></div><div>Obviously, this is a topic I&#39;m passionate about. =
=A0Many less expensive studios are rats nests. =A0Once you get used to orga=
nization, you tend to wanna get out of the chaos, and done, asap. =A0</div>

<div><br></div><div>I would think you want to be in a room that makes you f=
eel good. =A0It&#39;s well worth the effort and relatively little money req=
uired if you can use carpentry tools. =A0If you can&#39;t, it&#39;s fun to =
learn and makes all of life more affordable (and attractive). =A0Just watch=
 those fingers!</div>

<div><br></div><div>But, again, the ramblings of a very long term, semi OCD=
, studio loon. =A0When I was young, it didn&#39;t matter. =A0I had all the =
time in the world.</div><div><br></div><div>No one does, but illusion is mu=
ch easier at the head, or beginning, of a reel of tape.</div>

<div><br></div><div>R</div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><=
div>
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><span style=3D"text-indent:0px;letter-s=
pacing:normal;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line=
-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;font-size:mediu=
m;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px"><div style=3D"=
word-wrap:break-word">

<span style=3D"text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;fo=
nt-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separ=
ate;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Hel=
vetica;word-spacing:0px"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">

<span style=3D"text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;fo=
nt-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separ=
ate;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Hel=
vetica;word-spacing:0px"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">

<span style=3D"text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;fo=
nt-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separ=
ate;text-transform:none;font-size:18px;white-space:normal;font-family:Helve=
tica;word-spacing:0px"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">

<span style=3D"text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;fo=
nt-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separ=
ate;text-transform:none;font-size:18px;white-space:normal;font-family:Helve=
tica;word-spacing:0px"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">

<span style=3D"text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;fo=
nt-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separ=
ate;text-transform:none;font-size:12px;white-space:normal;font-family:Helve=
tica;word-spacing:0px"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">

<span style=3D"text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;fo=
nt-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separ=
ate;text-transform:none;font-size:12px;white-space:normal;font-family:Helve=
tica;word-spacing:0px"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">

<div><font face=3D"Arial">richard sales</font></div><div><font color=3D"#90=
8E38"><a href=3D"http://www.glasswing.com" target=3D"_blank">www.glasswing.=
com</a></font></div><div><font color=3D"#908E38"><a href=3D"http://www.rich=
ardsales.com" target=3D"_blank">www.richardsales.com</a></font></div>

<div><font color=3D"#908E38"><a href=3D"http://www.hayleysales.com" target=
=3D"_blank">www.hayleysales.com</a></font></div><div><font color=3D"#908E38=
"><a href=3D"http://www.goodnaturefarms.com" target=3D"_blank">www.goodnatu=
refarms.com</a></font></div>

<div><br></div></div></span><br></div></span><br></div></span><br></div></s=
pan><br></div></span><br></div></span><br></div></span><br></div><br><br>
</div></font></span><div><div class=3D"h5">
<br><div><div>On Jan 9, 2013, at 3:08 PM, Buzap Buzap wrote:</div><br><bloc=
kquote type=3D"cite"><div>Hi Kevin<br><br>yeah... it&#39;s soo tempting to =
shift up your gear...<br>There really comes a point where you _have_ to mak=
e a conscious choice if you are devoted to being a techie/gear geek or a mu=
sician/artist. Now, I hear all these people screaming: but you can be both!=
 Well, to be honest, I can&#39;t. Because I can either focus on optimizing =
my musical/artistic expression (thus, living with whatever gear I have) or =
I can focus on optimizing my gear/setup (thus, accepting a steady state art=
istically).<br>

<br>While I&#39;m tempted and love tweaking gear (hardware, software) - cur=
rently I&#39;m just happy throwing out any computer/electronic gear, grabbi=
ng a simple instrument - or even better: just pen &amp; paper.<br><br>
But getting back to your original question. Personally, I see three differe=
nt settings with differenty - but possibly overlapping - requirements:<br>
1.)Studio/Home Setup:<br>Everything should be wired ready, able to fire up =
instantly, supporting your natural workflow smoothly. High performance, enj=
oy working with.<br>2.) Mobile Setup (taking to friends/jams):<br>As simple=
, portable as possible, quick setup. Able to carry in backpack, public tran=
sport. Fun, less (gear) is more.<br>

3.) Stage/Gig Setup:<br>Robust, reliable, flexible/fixable when necessary. =
Able to carry yourself (several steps), fits in car. Beer-proof, idiot-proo=
f. Works for monitoring, FOH guy, PA, band etc. Able to control in dark/dim=
 light.<br>

<br>Of course, in the long run, you might be better of with a powerful lapt=
op - which you could use for all three setup purposes.<br><br>For your mobi=
le and gig setup, you should also practice - just like practicing an instru=
ment - setting up everyting. Optimize your setup steps (maybe write them do=
wn) and make it a habit to stick to them each time.<br>

<br>I also recommend practicing with your gear in pitch black darkness. Thi=
s way, you really get a feeling for your gear.<br><br>Final thing: I wouldn=
&#39;t use electric tape on cables, get&#39;s really messy/nasty when you t=
ake it of after 2 years. I&#39;d use simple plastic cable binders instead.<=
br>

<br>Good luck and enjoy your music!<br>Buzap<br><br></div></blockquote></di=
v><br></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all=
"><div><br></div>-- <br><i style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rg=
b(255,255,255);background-color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font style=3D"font-family:treb=
uchet ms,sans-serif" size=3D"4"><u>Mark Francombe</u></font></i><br>

<font size=3D"1"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.markfra=
ncombe.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.markfrancombe.com</a><br style=3D"color:=
rgb(51,0,51)"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.ordoabkhao=
.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.ordoabkhao.com</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,=
51)">

<a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://vimeo.com/user825094" target=
=3D"_blank">http://vimeo.com/user825094</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)"=
><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.looop.no/" target=3D"_b=
lank">http://www.looop.no</a><br>

twitter @markfrancombe<br><a href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@=
N00/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/</a><br><=
/font>
</div>

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I like the look of this tubing stuff
For ex:

*
http://www.cableorganizer.com/wire-loom/colored.html?green=0DE53E81-F6F3-5D6A-A310-D6128CB03668
*

BUT... is it rather solid?
Is there anything in a less rigid, construction for binding round a bumch
of guitar cables that are still plugged into a guitar?

M


On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 10:38 PM, Steven Clements <sdclements@gmail.com>wrote:

> Thanks Richard!
>
> I never knew those cable ties existed.  I'll be certain to order some
>
> Cheers
> Steve
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 1:49 PM, richard sales <richard@glasswing.com>wrote:
>
>> I always write replies and wait for the smart folks to answer first.
>>  Usually, everything I wanted to say gets said in a more clear, coherent
>> way and my trumped replies gather dust in my 'Drafts' folder.
>>
>> Indeed, Buzap covered most of my thoughts.  Only addition is, in the US,
>> we call 'em wire ties.  That's the only way to go, otherwise your wires
>> will get all gunky from tape.
>>
>> GooGone gets it off, but don't know if it's good for the cable itself.
>>
>> Get wire ties at Radio Shack, Home Depot etc.
>>
>> For live performance, there is a company that sells yellow wire ties with
>> a big tab for writing your name.  Great when you use good and or
>> expensive/hard to find cables.  Has saved many a cable for me from stage
>> hands in a hurry.
>>
>> *www.nelcoproducts.com*
>> Model or description - N-6AYE YL W/ON MARKER, 6"
>> You can only buy 'em by the 100, but they are only $21.
>>
>> You can also use these to identify bundles of cables in the studio.
>> I'd send you some but the postage from Canada would skew the cost for
>> you.  Better to order your own and share w friends.
>>
>> As far as Buzap's comment on choosing to be a tech head or music person -
>> it's a very important point.  Equipment is a bottomless pit.  What's
>> confusing is, I've found that with better equipment it's easier to get good
>> sound.  Further confusion? debt can be a detriment to creativity because
>> you always have to be earning $$$ to pay for the equipment.  Plus, you can
>> spend your life with your nose in manuals.
>>
>> Probably better to err on the side of 'musician' than tech head -
>> depending on your what brings you pleasure.
>>
>> I'm swamped in equipment here, but consider myself more musician than
>> tech head.  I just don't learn EVERYTHING a piece can do, just what I need
>> to learn to get done what I want to do.  Over time, those other functions
>> will be easier to grasp.
>> .....
>> Ergonomics of studio layout has taken me decades to sort out.  I'm still
>> not in a state of bliss about my setup, but I can work very fast now, and
>> have a lot of power within arm's reach, without hunting for things or
>> having to set things up.  I like speed when recording - I move very fast.
>>  Don't like to lose ideas or inspiration looking for, setting up devices,
>> rifling through junk etc.  For me, keeping the studio extremely clean helps
>> a lot.  The more clutter, the harder to find things.  Plus, dust and dirt
>> shorten the life of faders, pots,  patch bays etc.
>>
>> At the end of every day I put stuff away; I sort of 'clean the work
>> site'.
>>
>> The basic horse shoe arrangement has been my go to layout for years.
>>  Mixer center, processing stuff to the left and right of that, keyboards
>> left and right of that.  Guitar rig behind me. I still have to sit on the
>> floor to adjust some stuff in racks.  I see that in studios big and small,
>> and am waiting for some genius to figure out a workaround. I tend to avoid
>> that equipment for that reason, but it's stupid.
>>
>> In the studio I've run all the cables I can in wire troughs I built.  I
>> don't like the sight of wires.  Stepping on wires can break them internally
>> (learned that from Mike Gillies of Metallica recording crew).  They can be
>> simple wood boxes (with hole saw holes for wire entrance) running around
>> the circumference, or work area, of your studio.  Put all the wires that
>> never change in them.  Amazing how much it helps.   I used red cedar I
>> milled from fallen trees on our property here.  It's very pretty.
>>
>> Another alternative to rivers of dusty stepped on wires is tubing.
>> There are companies that sell wire tubing to hold bundles of wire in the
>> studio.  For ex:
>>
>> *
>> http://www.cableorganizer.com/wire-loom/colored.html?green=0DE53E81-F6F3-5D6A-A310-D6128CB03668
>> *
>>
>> For me, cluttered room = cluttered mind.  Cluttered mind = cluttered
>> music.  Sometimes clutter in music is good, but it requires a lot of mix
>> work for all the parts to stand out in the sea of stuff, so I arrange to
>> avoid that usually.   This, of course, could all be the rambling of a mad
>> geezer going blind in the twilight of time.  But it's a real pleasure to
>> walk into a clean room and get right down to work, or wake up with an idea
>> and, within minutes, be laying it down with all required tools within arm's
>> reach.
>>
>> Like you, I meditate to keep down clutter internally.  Nice to have the
>> studio reflect that state externally.  Amazing how much it (both, actually)
>> helps the music itself.
>>
>> (Note - some like the mad scientist look - esp at first.  I used to, till
>> I sort of BECAME a mad scientist in a sea of chaos)
>>
>> I keep the bulk of my cables in a cabinet.  The cables I use frequently
>> that aren't already connected, which are few, I have hanging on coat hooks
>> in the back room.  Definitely room for improvement in the back room.
>>  That's for the next remodel.
>>
>> To give you an idea of my situation, yesterday I bought four big Totes
>> for my excess wires.
>>
>> I have developed ways of preplanning room layout/ergonomics that I can
>> send you if curious.  Cheap, simple, fun.  My current studio is beautiful
>> but can disappear when the muse strikes - which is desirable.   If you're
>> good with Sketchup, that works great.  I lost interest, ran out of
>> 'learning time', when they went 3D.  Again, tech head vs musician.
>>
>> Go to really good pro studios (or study Mix Magazine) and see how they've
>> organized.  That's a lot of how I learned.
>>
>> Obviously, this is a topic I'm passionate about.  Many less expensive
>> studios are rats nests.  Once you get used to organization, you tend to
>> wanna get out of the chaos, and done, asap.
>>
>> I would think you want to be in a room that makes you feel good.  It's
>> well worth the effort and relatively little money required if you can use
>> carpentry tools.  If you can't, it's fun to learn and makes all of life
>> more affordable (and attractive).  Just watch those fingers!
>>
>> But, again, the ramblings of a very long term, semi OCD, studio loon.
>>  When I was young, it didn't matter.  I had all the time in the world.
>>
>> No one does, but illusion is much easier at the head, or beginning, of a
>> reel of tape.
>>
>> R
>>     richard sales
>> www.glasswing.com
>> www.richardsales.com
>> www.hayleysales.com
>> www.goodnaturefarms.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 9, 2013, at 3:08 PM, Buzap Buzap wrote:
>>
>> Hi Kevin
>>
>> yeah... it's soo tempting to shift up your gear...
>> There really comes a point where you _have_ to make a conscious choice if
>> you are devoted to being a techie/gear geek or a musician/artist. Now, I
>> hear all these people screaming: but you can be both! Well, to be honest, I
>> can't. Because I can either focus on optimizing my musical/artistic
>> expression (thus, living with whatever gear I have) or I can focus on
>> optimizing my gear/setup (thus, accepting a steady state artistically).
>>
>> While I'm tempted and love tweaking gear (hardware, software) - currently
>> I'm just happy throwing out any computer/electronic gear, grabbing a simple
>> instrument - or even better: just pen & paper.
>>
>> But getting back to your original question. Personally, I see three
>> different settings with differenty - but possibly overlapping -
>> requirements:
>> 1.)Studio/Home Setup:
>> Everything should be wired ready, able to fire up instantly, supporting
>> your natural workflow smoothly. High performance, enjoy working with.
>> 2.) Mobile Setup (taking to friends/jams):
>> As simple, portable as possible, quick setup. Able to carry in backpack,
>> public transport. Fun, less (gear) is more.
>> 3.) Stage/Gig Setup:
>> Robust, reliable, flexible/fixable when necessary. Able to carry yourself
>> (several steps), fits in car. Beer-proof, idiot-proof. Works for
>> monitoring, FOH guy, PA, band etc. Able to control in dark/dim light.
>>
>> Of course, in the long run, you might be better of with a powerful laptop
>> - which you could use for all three setup purposes.
>>
>> For your mobile and gig setup, you should also practice - just like
>> practicing an instrument - setting up everyting. Optimize your setup steps
>> (maybe write them down) and make it a habit to stick to them each time.
>>
>> I also recommend practicing with your gear in pitch black darkness. This
>> way, you really get a feeling for your gear.
>>
>> Final thing: I wouldn't use electric tape on cables, get's really
>> messy/nasty when you take it of after 2 years. I'd use simple plastic cable
>> binders instead.
>>
>> Good luck and enjoy your music!
>> Buzap
>>
>>
>>
>


-- 
*Mark Francombe*
www.markfrancombe.com
www.ordoabkhao.com
http://vimeo.com/user825094
http://www.looop.no
twitter @markfrancombe
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/

--047d7b3390035e4e9504d2f61378
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">I like the look of this tubing stuff<div><div style=3D"fon=
t-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">For ex:</div><div style=3D"font-f=
amily:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:=
arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">

<b><a href=3D"http://www.cableorganizer.com/wire-loom/colored.html?green=3D=
0DE53E81-F6F3-5D6A-A310-D6128CB03668" target=3D"_blank">http://www.cableorg=
anizer.com/wire-loom/colored.html?green=3D0DE53E81-F6F3-5D6A-A310-D6128CB03=
668</a></b></div>

</div><div style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></div>=
<div style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">BUT... is it rat=
her solid?</div><div style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">=
Is there anything in a less rigid, construction for binding round a bumch o=
f guitar cables that are still plugged into a guitar?</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></div><div s=
tyle=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">M</div></div><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 a=
t 10:38 PM, Steven Clements <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sdcleme=
nts@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">sdclements@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:=
<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Thanks Richard!<br><br>I never knew those ca=
ble ties existed.=A0 I&#39;ll be certain to order some <br><br>Cheers<br>St=
eve<div class=3D"HOEnZb">

<div class=3D"h5"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 a=
t 1:49 PM, richard sales <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:richard@gl=
asswing.com" target=3D"_blank">richard@glasswing.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<=
br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">I always=
 write replies and wait for the smart folks to answer first. =A0Usually, ev=
erything I wanted to say gets said in a more clear, coherent way and my tru=
mped replies gather dust in my &#39;Drafts&#39; folder. =A0<div>



<br></div><div>Indeed, Buzap covered most of my thoughts. =A0Only addition =
is, in the US, we call &#39;em wire ties. =A0That&#39;s the only way to go,=
 otherwise your wires will get all gunky from tape.<div><br></div><div>GooG=
one gets it off, but don&#39;t know if it&#39;s good for the cable itself.<=
/div>



<div><br></div><div>Get wire ties at Radio Shack, Home Depot etc.</div><div=
><br></div><div><div>For live performance, there is a company that sells ye=
llow wire ties with a big tab for writing your name. =A0Great when you use =
good and or expensive/hard to find cables. =A0Has saved many a cable for me=
 from stage hands in a hurry.=A0</div>



<div><br></div><div><b><a href=3D"http://www.nelcoproducts.com" target=3D"_=
blank">www.nelcoproducts.com</a></b></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top:0px=
;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;font:normal normal norm=
al 8.5px/normal Courier">



<font size=3D"3">Model or description - N-6AYE YL W/ON MARKER, 6&quot;</fon=
t></div></div><div>You can only buy &#39;em by the 100, but they are only $=
21. =A0</div><div><br></div><div>You can also use these to identify bundles=
 of cables in the studio.</div>



<div>I&#39;d send you some but the postage from Canada would skew the cost =
for you. =A0Better to order your own and share w friends.</div></div><div><=
br></div><div>As far as Buzap&#39;s comment on choosing to be a tech head o=
r music person - it&#39;s a very important point. =A0Equipment is a bottoml=
ess pit. =A0What&#39;s confusing is, I&#39;ve found that with better equipm=
ent it&#39;s easier to get good sound. =A0Further confusion? debt can be a =
detriment to creativity because you always have to be earning $$$ to pay fo=
r the equipment. =A0Plus, you can spend your life with your nose in manuals=
. =A0</div>



<div><br></div><div>Probably better to err on the side of &#39;musician&#39=
; than tech head - depending on your what brings you pleasure.</div><div><b=
r></div><div>I&#39;m swamped in equipment here, but consider myself more mu=
sician than tech head. =A0I just don&#39;t learn EVERYTHING a piece can do,=
 just what I need to learn to get done what I want to do. =A0Over time, tho=
se other functions will be easier to grasp.<br>



<div>.....</div><div>Ergonomics of studio layout has taken me decades to so=
rt out. =A0I&#39;m still not in a state of bliss about my setup, but I can =
work very fast now, and have a lot of power within arm&#39;s reach, without=
 hunting for things or having to set things up. =A0I like speed when record=
ing - I move very fast. =A0Don&#39;t like to lose ideas or inspiration look=
ing for, setting up devices, rifling through junk etc. =A0For me, keeping t=
he studio extremely clean helps a lot. =A0The more clutter, the harder to f=
ind things. =A0Plus, dust and dirt shorten the life of faders, pots, =A0pat=
ch bays etc.</div>



<div><br></div><div>At the end of every day I put stuff away; I sort of &#3=
9;clean the work site&#39;. =A0</div><div><br></div><div>The basic horse sh=
oe arrangement has been my go to layout for years. =A0Mixer center, process=
ing stuff to the left and right of that, keyboards left and right of that. =
=A0Guitar rig behind me. I still have to sit on the floor to adjust some st=
uff in racks. =A0I see that in studios big and small, and am waiting for so=
me genius to figure out a workaround. I tend to avoid that equipment for th=
at reason, but it&#39;s stupid. =A0</div>



<div><br></div><div>In the studio I&#39;ve run all the cables I can in wire=
 troughs I built. =A0I don&#39;t like the sight of wires. =A0Stepping on wi=
res can break them internally (learned that from Mike Gillies of Metallica =
recording crew). =A0They can be simple wood boxes (with hole saw holes for =
wire entrance) running around the circumference, or work area, of your stud=
io. =A0Put all the wires that never change in them. =A0Amazing how much it =
helps. =A0 I used red cedar I milled from fallen trees on our property here=
. =A0It&#39;s very pretty. =A0</div>



<div><br></div><div>Another alternative to rivers of dusty stepped on wires=
 is tubing.</div><div><div>There are companies that sell wire tubing to hol=
d bundles of wire in the studio. =A0For ex:</div><div><br></div><div><b><a =
href=3D"http://www.cableorganizer.com/wire-loom/colored.html?green=3D0DE53E=
81-F6F3-5D6A-A310-D6128CB03668" target=3D"_blank">http://www.cableorganizer=
.com/wire-loom/colored.html?green=3D0DE53E81-F6F3-5D6A-A310-D6128CB03668</a=
></b></div>



</div><div><br></div><div>For me, cluttered room =3D cluttered mind. =A0Clu=
ttered mind =3D cluttered music. =A0Sometimes clutter in music is good, but=
 it requires a lot of mix work for all the parts to stand out in the sea of=
 stuff, so I arrange to avoid that usually. =A0 This, of course, could all =
be the rambling of a mad geezer going blind in the twilight of time. =A0But=
 it&#39;s a real pleasure to walk into a clean room and get right down to w=
ork, or wake up with an idea and, within minutes, be laying it down with al=
l required tools within arm&#39;s reach.=A0</div>



<div><br></div><div>Like you, I meditate to keep down clutter internally. =
=A0Nice to have the studio reflect that state externally. =A0Amazing how mu=
ch it (both, actually) helps the music itself.</div><div><br></div><div>(No=
te - some like the mad scientist look - esp at first. =A0I used to, till I =
sort of BECAME a mad scientist in a sea of chaos)</div>



<div><br></div><div>I keep the bulk of my cables in a cabinet. =A0The cable=
s I use frequently that aren&#39;t already connected, which are few, I have=
 hanging on coat hooks in the back room. =A0Definitely room for improvement=
 in the back room. =A0That&#39;s for the next remodel.</div>



<div><br></div><div>To give you an idea of my situation, yesterday I bought=
 four big Totes for my excess wires. =A0</div><div><br></div><div>I have de=
veloped ways of preplanning room layout/ergonomics that I can send you if c=
urious. =A0Cheap, simple, fun. =A0My current studio is beautiful but can di=
sappear when the muse strikes - which is desirable. =A0 If you&#39;re good =
with Sketchup, that works great. =A0I lost interest, ran out of &#39;learni=
ng time&#39;, when they went 3D. =A0Again, tech head vs musician.=A0</div>



<div><br></div><div>Go to really good pro studios (or study Mix Magazine) a=
nd see how they&#39;ve organized. =A0That&#39;s a lot of how I learned.</di=
v><div><br></div><div>Obviously, this is a topic I&#39;m passionate about. =
=A0Many less expensive studios are rats nests. =A0Once you get used to orga=
nization, you tend to wanna get out of the chaos, and done, asap. =A0</div>



<div><br></div><div>I would think you want to be in a room that makes you f=
eel good. =A0It&#39;s well worth the effort and relatively little money req=
uired if you can use carpentry tools. =A0If you can&#39;t, it&#39;s fun to =
learn and makes all of life more affordable (and attractive). =A0Just watch=
 those fingers!</div>



<div><br></div><div>But, again, the ramblings of a very long term, semi OCD=
, studio loon. =A0When I was young, it didn&#39;t matter. =A0I had all the =
time in the world.</div><div><br></div><div>No one does, but illusion is mu=
ch easier at the head, or beginning, of a reel of tape.</div>



<div><br></div><div>R</div><span><font color=3D"#888888"><div>
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><span style=3D"text-indent:0px;letter-s=
pacing:normal;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line=
-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;font-size:mediu=
m;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px"><div style=3D"=
word-wrap:break-word">



<span style=3D"text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;fo=
nt-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separ=
ate;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Hel=
vetica;word-spacing:0px"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">



<span style=3D"text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;fo=
nt-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separ=
ate;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Hel=
vetica;word-spacing:0px"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">



<span style=3D"text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;fo=
nt-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separ=
ate;text-transform:none;font-size:18px;white-space:normal;font-family:Helve=
tica;word-spacing:0px"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">



<span style=3D"text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;fo=
nt-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separ=
ate;text-transform:none;font-size:18px;white-space:normal;font-family:Helve=
tica;word-spacing:0px"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">



<span style=3D"text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;fo=
nt-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separ=
ate;text-transform:none;font-size:12px;white-space:normal;font-family:Helve=
tica;word-spacing:0px"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">



<span style=3D"text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;fo=
nt-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separ=
ate;text-transform:none;font-size:12px;white-space:normal;font-family:Helve=
tica;word-spacing:0px"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">



<div><font face=3D"Arial">richard sales</font></div><div><font color=3D"#90=
8E38"><a href=3D"http://www.glasswing.com" target=3D"_blank">www.glasswing.=
com</a></font></div><div><font color=3D"#908E38"><a href=3D"http://www.rich=
ardsales.com" target=3D"_blank">www.richardsales.com</a></font></div>



<div><font color=3D"#908E38"><a href=3D"http://www.hayleysales.com" target=
=3D"_blank">www.hayleysales.com</a></font></div><div><font color=3D"#908E38=
"><a href=3D"http://www.goodnaturefarms.com" target=3D"_blank">www.goodnatu=
refarms.com</a></font></div>



<div><br></div></div></span><br></div></span><br></div></span><br></div></s=
pan><br></div></span><br></div></span><br></div></span><br></div><br><br>
</div></font></span><div><div>
<br><div><div>On Jan 9, 2013, at 3:08 PM, Buzap Buzap wrote:</div><br><bloc=
kquote type=3D"cite"><div>Hi Kevin<br><br>yeah... it&#39;s soo tempting to =
shift up your gear...<br>There really comes a point where you _have_ to mak=
e a conscious choice if you are devoted to being a techie/gear geek or a mu=
sician/artist. Now, I hear all these people screaming: but you can be both!=
 Well, to be honest, I can&#39;t. Because I can either focus on optimizing =
my musical/artistic expression (thus, living with whatever gear I have) or =
I can focus on optimizing my gear/setup (thus, accepting a steady state art=
istically).<br>



<br>While I&#39;m tempted and love tweaking gear (hardware, software) - cur=
rently I&#39;m just happy throwing out any computer/electronic gear, grabbi=
ng a simple instrument - or even better: just pen &amp; paper.<br><br>


But getting back to your original question. Personally, I see three differe=
nt settings with differenty - but possibly overlapping - requirements:<br>
1.)Studio/Home Setup:<br>Everything should be wired ready, able to fire up =
instantly, supporting your natural workflow smoothly. High performance, enj=
oy working with.<br>2.) Mobile Setup (taking to friends/jams):<br>As simple=
, portable as possible, quick setup. Able to carry in backpack, public tran=
sport. Fun, less (gear) is more.<br>



3.) Stage/Gig Setup:<br>Robust, reliable, flexible/fixable when necessary. =
Able to carry yourself (several steps), fits in car. Beer-proof, idiot-proo=
f. Works for monitoring, FOH guy, PA, band etc. Able to control in dark/dim=
 light.<br>



<br>Of course, in the long run, you might be better of with a powerful lapt=
op - which you could use for all three setup purposes.<br><br>For your mobi=
le and gig setup, you should also practice - just like practicing an instru=
ment - setting up everyting. Optimize your setup steps (maybe write them do=
wn) and make it a habit to stick to them each time.<br>



<br>I also recommend practicing with your gear in pitch black darkness. Thi=
s way, you really get a feeling for your gear.<br><br>Final thing: I wouldn=
&#39;t use electric tape on cables, get&#39;s really messy/nasty when you t=
ake it of after 2 years. I&#39;d use simple plastic cable binders instead.<=
br>



<br>Good luck and enjoy your music!<br>Buzap<br><br></div></blockquote></di=
v><br></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br>=
<i style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(255,255,255);backgroun=
d-color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font style=3D"font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif" siz=
e=3D"4"><u>Mark Francombe</u></font></i><br>

<font size=3D"1"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.markfra=
ncombe.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.markfrancombe.com</a><br style=3D"color:=
rgb(51,0,51)"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.ordoabkhao=
.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.ordoabkhao.com</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,=
51)">

<a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://vimeo.com/user825094" target=
=3D"_blank">http://vimeo.com/user825094</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)"=
><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.looop.no/" target=3D"_b=
lank">http://www.looop.no</a><br>

twitter @markfrancombe<br><a href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@=
N00/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/</a><br><=
/font>
</div>

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I'll stick with the EDP and wait for their new version in the works...



On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 12:04 PM, Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> Doesn't he say basically say that by eliminating all those complicated
> >> "features" they've created a pedal that I, the poor pathetic
> >> guitarist, can both afford and understand?
> >
> On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 8:00 PM, andy butler <akbutler@tiscali.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> > yes, drummer jokes are now forever replaced with guitarist jokes
>
>
> =C4=B1=C4=B1:  And forever told by loopers...  :=C4=B1=C4=B1
>
> PB ;-)
>
>

--f46d040715cb6f9c8804d2f65e15
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<br>I&#39;ll stick with the EDP and wait for their new version in the works=
...<br><br><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 12:04=
 PM, Per Boysen <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:perboysen@gmail.com=
" target=3D"_blank">perboysen@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"im">&gt;&gt; Doesn&#39;t he sa=
y basically say that by eliminating all those complicated<br>
&gt;&gt; &quot;features&quot; they&#39;ve created a pedal that I, the poor =
pathetic<br>
&gt;&gt; guitarist, can both afford and understand?<br>
&gt;<br>
</div><div class=3D"im">On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 8:00 PM, andy butler &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:akbutler@tiscali.co.uk">akbutler@tiscali.co.uk</a>&gt; wrot=
e:<br>
<br>
&gt; yes, drummer jokes are now forever replaced with guitarist jokes<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>=C4=B1=C4=B1: =C2=A0And forever told by loopers... =C2=A0:=C4=B1=C4=
=B1<br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
PB ;-)<br>
<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br>

--f46d040715cb6f9c8804d2f65e15--

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Subject: Re: Tips and Tricks of Gear Organization
From: Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com>
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On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 9:49 PM, richard sales <richard@glasswing.com> wrote:
> For me, cluttered room = cluttered mind.  Cluttered mind = cluttered music.


LOL - I must chime in with a comment to this as I happen to represent
the absolut opposite personality type! I don't even KNOW whether my
room is tidy or messy. When I start working I go into a zone and
everything else simply vanishes around me. My natural state is to NOT
know what day of the week it is, something that annoys the shit out of
some people (so I try to find out now and then what day it is because
I'm a nice guy and don't want to annoys that much shit out of that
many people). And I don't follow the strategy to make decisions of
what I want to focus on... I don't think I have ever made one single
carrer decision in my hole life! Opportunities just come up - often
too many and too often - and I tend to simply go with the most
exciting one, dive deep into it and "get lost" there for a while. I
have found that chaos and not knowing how to do stuff is creatively
productive, given that you just do it anyway while figuring out
how-to's as you're moving along. The key point here is to really
figure it out and finish it up to your highest standard. With that
attitude it doesn't become destructive to goof around  "trying a
little here and something else over there" because since you dive so
deeply into each obsession you come out with valuable experiences and
skills. This is the typical renaissance ideal, most respected back in
the days before specializing in something became the new in thing. Ok,
your learning curve advances more slowly but I strongly believe that
you can achieve things that isn't available if living by the focused
decision-making strategy. Deeper aspects of everything, cross
contamination of neurons... and a hell of a lot of fun.

Please note that I'm not propagating for an unstructured life, rather
for an open mind and not building your inner logical structures on the
outer environment. An example can be to "not learn the gear but learn
what the gear does", or maybe "don't practice where to put down your
fingers on your instrument, practice how the note's vibrations come
together to create music". Focusing on the real thing, but the real
thing is everywhere, all the time - so it's a never ending task ;-)

Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.perboysen.com
http://www.youtube.com/perboysen

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Subject: Recommendations for iPad pad synth...
To: loopers-delight <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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--f46d042de575420ea504d2f7e44f
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After having a lot of fun with some reverby trip hop with some nasty
granular noise last night... Almost live.. but done in Logic..
https://soundcloud.com/markfrancombe/atmostrip

I realised I need a kind of pad synth for iPad. (I dont take keyboards or
computers out live)

Preferably it needs to make a wide variety of granular, reverby, swooshes
and growls.

IPAD ONLY!!!

M

-- 
*Mark Francombe*
www.markfrancombe.com
www.ordoabkhao.com
http://vimeo.com/user825094
http://www.looop.no
twitter @markfrancombe
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/

--f46d042de575420ea504d2f7e44f
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<div dir=3D"ltr">After having a lot of fun with some reverby trip hop with =
some nasty granular noise last night... Almost live.. but done in Logic..=
=A0<div><a href=3D"https://soundcloud.com/markfrancombe/atmostrip">https://=
soundcloud.com/markfrancombe/atmostrip</a></div>

<div><br></div><div>I realised I need a kind of pad synth for iPad. (I dont=
 take keyboards or computers out live)</div><div><br></div><div>Preferably =
it needs to make a wide variety of granular, reverby, swooshes and growls.<=
/div>

<div><br></div><div>IPAD ONLY!!!</div><div><br></div><div>M<br clear=3D"all=
"><div><br></div>-- <br><i style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rg=
b(255,255,255);background-color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font style=3D"font-family:&#39=
;trebuchet ms&#39;,sans-serif" size=3D"4"><u>Mark Francombe</u></font></i><=
br>

<font size=3D"1"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.markfra=
ncombe.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.markfrancombe.com</a><br style=3D"color:=
rgb(51,0,51)"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.ordoabkhao=
.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.ordoabkhao.com</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,=
51)">

<a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://vimeo.com/user825094" target=
=3D"_blank">http://vimeo.com/user825094</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)"=
><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.looop.no/" target=3D"_b=
lank">http://www.looop.no</a><br>

twitter @markfrancombe<br><a href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@=
N00/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/</a><br><=
/font>
</div></div>

--f46d042de575420ea504d2f7e44f--

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Subject: Re: Recommendations for iPad pad synth...
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Cassini, Magellan, Animoog, Addictive Synth, Sunrizer, PPG Wave
Generator =85 that should get you started just fine =85

Best,

Dennis

http://soundcloud.com/usrsbin
http://audiozoloft.com
http://usrslashsbin.angrek.com/


On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 2:53 PM, mark francombe <mark@markfrancombe.com> wr=
ote:
> After having a lot of fun with some reverby trip hop with some nasty
> granular noise last night... Almost live.. but done in Logic..
> https://soundcloud.com/markfrancombe/atmostrip
>
> I realised I need a kind of pad synth for iPad. (I dont take keyboards or
> computers out live)
>
> Preferably it needs to make a wide variety of granular, reverby, swooshes
> and growls.
>
> IPAD ONLY!!!
>
> M
>
> --
> Mark Francombe
> www.markfrancombe.com
> www.ordoabkhao.com
> http://vimeo.com/user825094
> http://www.looop.no
> twitter @markfrancombe
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/

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On Jan 10, 2013, at 3:53 PM, mark francombe wrote:

> I realised I need a kind of pad synth for iPad. (I dont take  
> keyboards or computers out live)

I really like Alchemy, Animoog, Addictive Synth and Magellan. But  
there are more classic styles like iPolysix and iMS-20.
There are Youtube user demos for most of the apps which can give you  
some sense of the possibilities.


> Preferably it needs to make a wide variety of granular, reverby,  
> swooshes and growls.

Now there is AudioBus (a router) and an app called LiveFX (sort of  
Kaoss Pad) as well as FX filter apps (Moog and IK) that can let you  
get some serious mangling.

regards

BobC
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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br><div><div>On Jan 10, 2013, =
at 3:53 PM, mark francombe wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: =
normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div>I =
realised I need a kind of pad synth for iPad. (I dont take keyboards or =
computers out live)</div></span></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I =
really like Alchemy, Animoog, Addictive Synth and Magellan. But there =
are more classic styles like iPolysix and iMS-20.</div><div>There are =
Youtube user demos for most of the apps which can give you some sense of =
the possibilities.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: =
separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; =
"><div>Preferably it needs to make a wide variety of granular, reverby, =
swooshes and growls.</div></span></blockquote></div><br><div>Now there =
is AudioBus (a router) and an app called LiveFX (sort of Kaoss Pad) as =
well as FX filter apps (Moog and IK) that can let you get some serious =
mangling.</div><div><br></div><div>regards</div><div><br></div><div>BobC</=
div></body></html>=

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Subject: Re: Recommendations for iPad pad synth...
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On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 12:53 AM, mark francombe <mark@markfrancombe.com> wrote:
> Almost live.. but done in Logic..
> I realised I need a kind of pad synth for iPad. (I dont take keyboards or
> computers out live)

Do you know that you can play synths in Logic from the computer keys?
Hit the Shift-Lock to turn the QWERTY row into black piano keys and
the ASDFGHJK into white piano keys. Chose octave by the number on the
highest row and chose velocity by the lowest ZXCVBN row.

> https://soundcloud.com/markfrancombe/atmostrip
Good guitar riff! Got a Manchester vibe to it :-)

Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.perboysen.com
http://www.youtube.com/perboysen

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On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 1:04 AM, RP Collier <skeptikalist@gmail.com> wrote:
> Alchemy


+1!!!  :-))   I just love Alchemy! I use the big version on the studio
computer but simultaneously run the iOS version on my iPhone to
(touch) control the computer version over wireless. I work the remix
pad that way because the iOS remix pad is much more playable and
musical than fiddling a mouse or trackpad on the studio computer.

Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.perboysen.com
http://www.youtube.com/perboysen

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On Jan 10, 2013, at 4:30 PM, Per Boysen wrote:

> simultaneously run the iOS version on my iPhone to
> (touch) control the computer version over wireless.


Nice!
The app makes me want the big version. I just got their Guitar  
Mutations library -- tasty fun.

I am intrigued by Omnisphere but have not tried it or heard comments  
from a regular user of it.


BobC
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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
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at 4:30 PM, Per Boysen wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: =
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">simultaneously run the iOS version on my iPhone to<br>(touch) control =
the computer version over =
wireless.</span></blockquote></div><br><div><br></div><div>Nice!</div><div=
>The app makes me want the big version. I just got their Guitar =
Mutations library -- tasty fun.</div><div><br></div><div>I am intrigued =
by Omnisphere but have not tried it or heard comments from a regular =
user of =
it.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>BobC</div></body></html>=

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Subject: Min. loop length of modern loopers / Ditto?
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What are you experiences about minimum loop length of modern loopers?

Does the new Ditto Looper work as smart as a nicely old Lexicon Jamman =
and allow for any minim loop negth i can physically attempt to stomp =
into it?=20
The Boss things don't, they ruin my surprises by only allowing for a =
minimum of 1.5 seconds.

What are your experiences there?

Thanx for info!

jayrope
---
aircushionfinish.com

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Subject: Re: Recommendations for iPad pad synth...
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I don't want to own too much things (in order to be able to work
better with the instruments I have at hand) and was choosing between
Alchemy and Omnisphere. I was interested in a good arpeggiator
function too and they both provide that, but it was the remix pad in
Alchemy that made me go that way (maybe also the huge sample library
of Omnisphere. Alchemy I can still keep on a portable MBP with a
decent library, because a lot of musical variations are created with
the remix pad out of the same set of samples in a patch). Well, I must
admit that I was a big fan the older now discontinued synth
Cameleon5000 by the dame developers.

One thing you can do in Omnisphere that Alchemy doesn't support is to
import the micro groove of a MIDI file (to be used in Omnisphere's
arpeggiator and assorted modulation sources). If you have RMX it is
also cool to hook up Omissph and RMX as a grooving couple.

Watch the info videos on Omnishpere that Spectrasonix has posted at
their web site. Last year's NAMM videos with Eric Persing as well a
with Jordan Rudess are also great Omniqpheria, but I think they might
be linked from Spectrasonx homepage too.

Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.perboysen.com
http://www.youtube.com/perboysen


On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 1:56 AM, RP Collier <skeptikalist@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Jan 10, 2013, at 4:30 PM, Per Boysen wrote:
>
> simultaneously run the iOS version on my iPhone to
> (touch) control the computer version over wireless.
>
>
>
> Nice!
> The app makes me want the big version. I just got their Guitar Mutations
> library -- tasty fun.
>
> I am intrigued by Omnisphere but have not tried it or heard comments from a
> regular user of it.
>
>
> BobC

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On Jan 10, 2013, at 5:19 PM, Per Boysen wrote:

> Watch the info videos on Omnishpere


Yes, I did but it is nice to get evaluations outside of the commerce/ 
corporate sphere.
Thanks for your comments.

Omnisphere has a wireless app that seems like it ought to be able to  
be used as a remix pad.
The huge library, makes me unsure also.
I suppose it might be a workable thing with dedicated a wireless hard  
drive to store/access the data.


BobC
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normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: =
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text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; ">Watch the =
info videos on =
Omnishpere</span></blockquote></div><br><div><br></div><div>Yes, I did =
but it is nice to get evaluations outside of the commerce/corporate =
sphere.</div><div>Thanks for your =
comments.</div><div><br></div><div>Omnisphere has a wireless app that =
seems like it ought to be able to be used as a remix pad.</div><div>The =
huge library, makes me unsure also.</div><div>I suppose&nbsp;it might be =
a workable thing&nbsp;with dedicated a wireless hard drive to =
store/access the =
data.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>BobC</div></body></html>=

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Subject: Re: Recommendations for iPad pad synth...
From: Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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I forgot to mention that Alchemy brings a nice sounding granular
synthesis engine (among a number of other synthesis methods). And
regarding Omnisphere I have heard from skilled Omniscists that it is
exceptionally great in the lush Vangelis pads department (Yamaha CS80)

Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.perboysen.com
http://www.youtube.com/perboysen


On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 2:42 AM, RP Collier <skeptikalist@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Jan 10, 2013, at 5:19 PM, Per Boysen wrote:
>
> Watch the info videos on Omnishpere
>
>
>
> Yes, I did but it is nice to get evaluations outside of the
> commerce/corporate sphere.
> Thanks for your comments.
>
> Omnisphere has a wireless app that seems like it ought to be able to be used
> as a remix pad.
> The huge library, makes me unsure also.
> I suppose it might be a workable thing with dedicated a wireless hard drive
> to store/access the data.
>
>
> BobC

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Subject: Re: Recommendations for iPad pad synth...
From: Daniel Thomas <danielthomas4@mac.com>
In-reply-to:
 <CAM62fAHGq1bFefAux-=h4m=7kkwEBwTGvtpV_aBy6zVqsK1=Xw@mail.gmail.com>
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I am loving animoog and addictive. =20

Daniel=20
On Jan 10, 2013, at 4:03 PM, Dennis Moser <sinsofmachaut@gmail.com> =
wrote:

> Cassini, Magellan, Animoog, Addictive Synth, Sunrizer, PPG Wave
> Generator =85 that should get you started just fine =85
>=20
> Best,
>=20
> Dennis
>=20
> http://soundcloud.com/usrsbin
> http://audiozoloft.com
> http://usrslashsbin.angrek.com/
>=20
>=20
> On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 2:53 PM, mark francombe =
<mark@markfrancombe.com> wrote:
>> After having a lot of fun with some reverby trip hop with some nasty
>> granular noise last night... Almost live.. but done in Logic..
>> https://soundcloud.com/markfrancombe/atmostrip
>>=20
>> I realised I need a kind of pad synth for iPad. (I dont take =
keyboards or
>> computers out live)
>>=20
>> Preferably it needs to make a wide variety of granular, reverby, =
swooshes
>> and growls.
>>=20
>> IPAD ONLY!!!
>>=20
>> M
>>=20
>> --
>> Mark Francombe
>> www.markfrancombe.com
>> www.ordoabkhao.com
>> http://vimeo.com/user825094
>> http://www.looop.no
>> twitter @markfrancombe
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/
>=20

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jan 11 09:43:48 2013
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Subject: Bad experience with Looperlative LP-2 
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 10:11:10 +0100
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--Apple-Mail=_4AB6BCAE-9075-4CCF-BE8E-1A8B29DCAFDB
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	charset=us-ascii

I'm a saxophonist from Switzerland doing some looping from time to time. =
When I heard about the LP-2 I thought this would be holy grail of the =
looper pedals - small, with the right features to be creative while =
looping. In october'11 I ordered it from Bob Amstad.
When I got it some months later I had to notice that it didn't work as =
advertised at all. The feedback function didn't work with the pedals I =
tried. It even crashed sometimes. In continous trigger mode I got half a =
second of silence in the loop, which makes the function completely =
useless.
So far, so bad. But the worst thing is: After sending it back to Bob =
(which he proposed) I never got a replacement unit or some money back. =
He even doesn't react on emails anymore.
I'm posting this not only to warn other people, but also to ask if =
somebody had similar problems and how you could resolve it.
Best wishes from Switzerland
Christoph

http://www.christophgrab.com
http://www.youtube.com/user/beestreet13


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<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
"><div>I'm a saxophonist from Switzerland doing some looping from time =
to time. When I heard about the LP-2 I thought this would be holy grail =
of the looper pedals - small, with the right features to be creative =
while looping. In october'11 I ordered it from Bob =
Amstad.</div><div>When I got it some months later I had to notice that =
it didn't work as advertised at all. The feedback function didn't work =
with the pedals I tried. It even crashed sometimes. In continous trigger =
mode I got half a second of silence in the loop, which makes the =
function completely useless.</div><div>So far, so bad. But the worst =
thing is: After sending it back to Bob (which he proposed) I never got a =
replacement unit or some money back. He even doesn't react on emails =
anymore.</div><div>I'm posting this not only to warn other people, but =
also to ask if somebody had similar problems and how you could resolve =
it.</div>Best wishes from Switzerland<div>Christoph<br><div =
apple-content-edited=3D"true">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; =
"><div><div><div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-size: 12px; "><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"'Century =
Gothic'"><br></font></div></div><div class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; "><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"'Century Gothic'"><a =
href=3D"http://www.christophgrab.com">http://www.christophgrab.com</a></fo=
nt></div><div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"'Century =
Gothic'"><a =
href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/user/beestreet13">http://www.youtube.com/us=
er/beestreet13</a></font></div></div></span>
</div>
<br></div></body></html>=

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Subject: Re: Recommendations for iPad pad synth...
To: loopers-delight <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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Thanks for the tips, I went (for the time being) with Alchemy... I liked
what I saw of the remix pad, the same as in NI Kore Player, and Audio
Mulch... big fan of making 2 wiledly differing patches and then parking
morphs somewhere in between...

Just trying to log in to Camel audio to get the freebie pack, seems to be
down right now, although 20 mins ago I checked their vids..

M


On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 5:32 AM, Daniel Thomas <danielthomas4@mac.com>wrote=
:

> I am loving animoog and addictive.
>
> Daniel
> On Jan 10, 2013, at 4:03 PM, Dennis Moser <sinsofmachaut@gmail.com> wrote=
:
>
> > Cassini, Magellan, Animoog, Addictive Synth, Sunrizer, PPG Wave
> > Generator =85 that should get you started just fine =85
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Dennis
> >
> > http://soundcloud.com/usrsbin
> > http://audiozoloft.com
> > http://usrslashsbin.angrek.com/
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 2:53 PM, mark francombe <mark@markfrancombe.com=
>
> wrote:
> >> After having a lot of fun with some reverby trip hop with some nasty
> >> granular noise last night... Almost live.. but done in Logic..
> >> https://soundcloud.com/markfrancombe/atmostrip
> >>
> >> I realised I need a kind of pad synth for iPad. (I dont take keyboards
> or
> >> computers out live)
> >>
> >> Preferably it needs to make a wide variety of granular, reverby,
> swooshes
> >> and growls.
> >>
> >> IPAD ONLY!!!
> >>
> >> M
> >>
> >> --
> >> Mark Francombe
> >> www.markfrancombe.com
> >> www.ordoabkhao.com
> >> http://vimeo.com/user825094
> >> http://www.looop.no
> >> twitter @markfrancombe
> >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/
> >
>
>


--=20
*Mark Francombe*
www.markfrancombe.com
www.ordoabkhao.com
http://vimeo.com/user825094
http://www.looop.no
twitter @markfrancombe
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/

--f46d042f973230f60004d3025094
Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Thanks for the tips, I went (for the time being) with Alch=
emy... I liked what I saw of the remix pad, the same as in NI Kore Player, =
and Audio Mulch... big fan of making 2 wiledly differing patches and then p=
arking morphs somewhere in between...<div>

<br></div><div style>Just trying to log in to Camel audio to get the freebi=
e pack, seems to be down right now, although 20 mins ago I checked their vi=
ds..</div><div style><br></div><div style>M</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_=
extra">

<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 5:32 AM, Daniel =
Thomas <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:danielthomas4@mac.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank">danielthomas4@mac.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pa=
dding-left:1ex">

I am loving animoog and addictive.<br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
Daniel<br>
</font></span><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">On Jan 10, 2013, at 4=
:03 PM, Dennis Moser &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sinsofmachaut@gmail.com">sinsofm=
achaut@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt; Cassini, Magellan, Animoog, Addictive Synth, Sunrizer, PPG Wave<br>
&gt; Generator =85 that should get you started just fine =85<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Best,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Dennis<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"http://soundcloud.com/usrsbin" target=3D"_blank">http://sou=
ndcloud.com/usrsbin</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"http://audiozoloft.com" target=3D"_blank">http://audiozolof=
t.com</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"http://usrslashsbin.angrek.com/" target=3D"_blank">http://u=
srslashsbin.angrek.com/</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 2:53 PM, mark francombe &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
mark@markfrancombe.com">mark@markfrancombe.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; After having a lot of fun with some reverby trip hop with some nas=
ty<br>
&gt;&gt; granular noise last night... Almost live.. but done in Logic..<br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://soundcloud.com/markfrancombe/atmostrip" target=
=3D"_blank">https://soundcloud.com/markfrancombe/atmostrip</a><br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; I realised I need a kind of pad synth for iPad. (I dont take keybo=
ards or<br>
&gt;&gt; computers out live)<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Preferably it needs to make a wide variety of granular, reverby, s=
wooshes<br>
&gt;&gt; and growls.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; IPAD ONLY!!!<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; M<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; --<br>
&gt;&gt; Mark Francombe<br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"http://www.markfrancombe.com" target=3D"_blank">www.mar=
kfrancombe.com</a><br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"http://www.ordoabkhao.com" target=3D"_blank">www.ordoab=
khao.com</a><br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"http://vimeo.com/user825094" target=3D"_blank">http://v=
imeo.com/user825094</a><br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"http://www.looop.no" target=3D"_blank">http://www.looop=
.no</a><br>
&gt;&gt; twitter @markfrancombe<br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/" target=3D"_=
blank">http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/</a><br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br>=
<i style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(255,255,255);backgroun=
d-color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font style=3D"font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif" siz=
e=3D"4"><u>Mark Francombe</u></font></i><br>

<font size=3D"1"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.markfra=
ncombe.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.markfrancombe.com</a><br style=3D"color:=
rgb(51,0,51)"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.ordoabkhao=
.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.ordoabkhao.com</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,=
51)">

<a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://vimeo.com/user825094" target=
=3D"_blank">http://vimeo.com/user825094</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)"=
><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.looop.no/" target=3D"_b=
lank">http://www.looop.no</a><br>

twitter @markfrancombe<br><a href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@=
N00/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/</a><br><=
/font>
</div>

--f46d042f973230f60004d3025094--

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Subject: Re: Recommendations for iPad pad synth...
From: Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com>
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On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 1:19 PM, mark francombe <mark@markfrancombe.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the tips, I went (for the time being) with Alchemy... I liked
> what I saw of the remix pad, the same as in NI Kore Player, and Audio
> Mulch... big fan of making 2 wiledly differing patches and then parking
> morphs somewhere in between...

Yes, I remember when you showed me that awesome feature in Audio Mulch
at Nancy's Garden, Santa Cruz. In Alchemy you have the remix pad has
eight positions and for each position you can define the exact value
for a dozen different parameters and then you morph seamlessly between
them (parameter gliding towards the next value). The good thing with
using a touch iOS device, compared to a joystic, is that you can JUMP
between positions. It's great to print automation for Alchemy's
remixpad in Logic from the iPhone.

Other fun stuff in Alchemy is the arpeggiator, the micro tonal tuning
option, granular synthesis and sample processing plus that you can
load your own sound files and morph them on the remix pad.

Alchemy together with Kontakt 5 is my current favorites to add some
cream on top of the Logic's Synths cake.

Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.perboysen.com
http://www.youtube.com/perboysen

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--047d7b15a58b2d0a4c04d302ff86
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Well right now I just got the iPad versino of Alchemy, cos I CAN do all
these "kind" of things on my laptop, but I dont really have a way live, as
I dont take my laptop to gigs.. As I am using iPad to do TouchOSC stuff via
missing link to the edps and repeater, I thought it was a waste to NOT have
it make some noise too!!

And I have tested that a 4 finger swipe can let me switch between Alchemy
and TouchOSC, without needed a restart of either, which is nice.. (Although
Angry Birds needs a reload, so no Green Pig Death mid gig Im afraid!

Mark


On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 1:48 PM, Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 1:19 PM, mark francombe <mark@markfrancombe.com>
> wrote:
> > Thanks for the tips, I went (for the time being) with Alchemy... I liked
> > what I saw of the remix pad, the same as in NI Kore Player, and Audio
> > Mulch... big fan of making 2 wiledly differing patches and then parking
> > morphs somewhere in between...
>
> Yes, I remember when you showed me that awesome feature in Audio Mulch
> at Nancy's Garden, Santa Cruz. In Alchemy you have the remix pad has
> eight positions and for each position you can define the exact value
> for a dozen different parameters and then you morph seamlessly between
> them (parameter gliding towards the next value). The good thing with
> using a touch iOS device, compared to a joystic, is that you can JUMP
> between positions. It's great to print automation for Alchemy's
> remixpad in Logic from the iPhone.
>
> Other fun stuff in Alchemy is the arpeggiator, the micro tonal tuning
> option, granular synthesis and sample processing plus that you can
> load your own sound files and morph them on the remix pad.
>
> Alchemy together with Kontakt 5 is my current favorites to add some
> cream on top of the Logic's Synths cake.
>
> Greetings from Sweden
>
> Per Boysen
> www.perboysen.com
> http://www.youtube.com/perboysen
>
>


-- 
*Mark Francombe*
www.markfrancombe.com
www.ordoabkhao.com
http://vimeo.com/user825094
http://www.looop.no
twitter @markfrancombe
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/

--047d7b15a58b2d0a4c04d302ff86
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Well right now I just got the iPad versino of Alchemy, cos=
 I CAN do all these &quot;kind&quot; of things on my laptop, but I dont rea=
lly have a way live, as I dont take my laptop to gigs.. As I am using iPad =
to do TouchOSC stuff via missing link to the edps and repeater, I thought i=
t was a waste to NOT have it make some noise too!!<div>

<br></div><div style>And I have tested that a 4 finger swipe can let me swi=
tch between Alchemy and TouchOSC, without needed a restart of either, which=
 is nice.. (Although Angry Birds needs a reload, so no Green Pig Death mid =
gig Im afraid!</div>

<div style><br></div><div style>Mark=A0</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extr=
a"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 1:48 PM, Per =
Boysen <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:perboysen@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">perboysen@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"im">On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 1:=
19 PM, mark francombe &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mark@markfrancombe.com">mark@ma=
rkfrancombe.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>


&gt; Thanks for the tips, I went (for the time being) with Alchemy... I lik=
ed<br>
&gt; what I saw of the remix pad, the same as in NI Kore Player, and Audio<=
br>
&gt; Mulch... big fan of making 2 wiledly differing patches and then parkin=
g<br>
&gt; morphs somewhere in between...<br>
<br>
</div>Yes, I remember when you showed me that awesome feature in Audio Mulc=
h<br>
at Nancy&#39;s Garden, Santa Cruz. In Alchemy you have the remix pad has<br=
>
eight positions and for each position you can define the exact value<br>
for a dozen different parameters and then you morph seamlessly between<br>
them (parameter gliding towards the next value). The good thing with<br>
using a touch iOS device, compared to a joystic, is that you can JUMP<br>
between positions. It&#39;s great to print automation for Alchemy&#39;s<br>
remixpad in Logic from the iPhone.<br>
<br>
Other fun stuff in Alchemy is the arpeggiator, the micro tonal tuning<br>
option, granular synthesis and sample processing plus that you can<br>
load your own sound files and morph them on the remix pad.<br>
<br>
Alchemy together with Kontakt 5 is my current favorites to add some<br>
cream on top of the Logic&#39;s Synths cake.<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
Greetings from Sweden<br>
<br>
Per Boysen<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.perboysen.com" target=3D"_blank">www.perboysen.com</a=
><br>
<a href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/perboysen" target=3D"_blank">http://www.y=
outube.com/perboysen</a><br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br>=
<i style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(255,255,255);backgroun=
d-color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font style=3D"font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif" siz=
e=3D"4"><u>Mark Francombe</u></font></i><br>

<font size=3D"1"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.markfra=
ncombe.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.markfrancombe.com</a><br style=3D"color:=
rgb(51,0,51)"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.ordoabkhao=
.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.ordoabkhao.com</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,=
51)">

<a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://vimeo.com/user825094" target=
=3D"_blank">http://vimeo.com/user825094</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)"=
><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.looop.no/" target=3D"_b=
lank">http://www.looop.no</a><br>

twitter @markfrancombe<br><a href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@=
N00/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/</a><br><=
/font>
</div>

--047d7b15a58b2d0a4c04d302ff86--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jan 11 19:29:33 2013
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Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 11:29:32 -0800
Message-ID: <CAP9xU1teei0dYaBe4p1oRP_OmswaCDVqWKGkybX50A1MffU4-g@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Bad experience with Looperlative LP-2
From: Matt Davignon <mattdavignon@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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I've had similar experiences, including the half second of silence at
the beginning of each loop. The discussion on this site suggests that
Bob is trying to balance LP-2 support with a day job and a family, and
has trouble keeping up. Rick Walker has been stepping in a bit as a
customer service department of sorts.

I haven't been happy with it, but haven't had the chance to box it up
and send it back yet either. I replaced it with a different looper
unit several months ago.

-- 
Matt Davignon
mattdavignon@gmail.com
www.ribosomemusic.com
Podcast! http://ribosomematt.podomatic.com

On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 1:11 AM, christoph grab <info@christophgrab.com> wrote:
> I'm a saxophonist from Switzerland doing some looping from time to time.
> When I heard about the LP-2 I thought this would be holy grail of the looper
> pedals - small, with the right features to be creative while looping. In
> october'11 I ordered it from Bob Amstad.
> When I got it some months later I had to notice that it didn't work as
> advertised at all. The feedback function didn't work with the pedals I
> tried. It even crashed sometimes. In continous trigger mode I got half a
> second of silence in the loop, which makes the function completely useless.
> So far, so bad. But the worst thing is: After sending it back to Bob (which
> he proposed) I never got a replacement unit or some money back. He even
> doesn't react on emails anymore.
> I'm posting this not only to warn other people, but also to ask if somebody
> had similar problems and how you could resolve it.
> Best wishes from Switzerland
> Christoph
>
> http://www.christophgrab.com
> http://www.youtube.com/user/beestreet13
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jan 11 19:58:54 2013
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Subject: Galactic Travels Playlist #823 for January 10, 2013.
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http://soundscapes.us/gt/playlists/2013/130110.html

Galactic Travels is an electronic, ambient, and space music show, that
airs each Thursday at 11:04 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and Bethlehem,
PA, 93.9 FM in Easton, PA and Phillipsburg, NJ, 93.7 FM in Fogelsville
and Trexlertown, and webcasting on the internet.  WDIY also broadcasts
in Digital HD at 88.1 FM.

Show #823 January 10, 2013.
WDIY Playlist:
http://wdiy.org/programs/galactic-travels?playlist_date=01-10-2013

RECAP:
On this show, I continued the month-long focus on Mystified.  The
Featured CD at Midnight was "Flickering Fuel" on Dark Meadow Recordings.
http://soundscapes.us/gt/playlists/2013/focus.html#jan


PLAYLIST:

11:04 pm
ARTIST               TRACK                ALBUM (label)
==================== ==================== ==============================
Kevin Braheny        Starflight 1 *       Galaxies (Hearts of Space)
Arcane               Darkened Mirrors     A Tale of Unease (none)
VA [Twyndyllyngs]    Lament for Sandyhook Doomsday and Brimstone (Sound
                                             for Good)
Steve Roach          Resolved             Soul Tones (Timeroom Editions)


12:00 am
ARTIST               TRACK                ALBUM (label)
==================== ==================== ==============================
Mystified            Raining Red          Flickering Fuel (Dark Meadow)
Mystified            Waste as Fuel        Flickering Fuel (Dark Meadow)
Mystified            Flickering           Flickering Fuel (Dark Meadow)
Genetique            Part 3               Soundscapes Concert Series #19
                                             (Fox's Den)
Motionfield          Some Other Time *    A Sort of Homecoming
                                             (Autoload)


1:00 am

  * = excerpt
VA = Various Artists (compilation)
++ = Advance CDR from Artist
-- = Background music under interview


NEXT SHOW:
On the next Galactic Travels, I'll continue the month-long focus on
Mystified.  The Featured CD at Midnight will be "Coming Days" on
Attenuation Circuit Records.
WDIY Announcement: http://wdiy.org/post/next-galactic-travels-2013-01-17

Bill
========================================================================
Host of Galactic Travels, an electronic, ambient, and space music show,
Thursdays at 11:04 pm EST/GMT-5 on WDIY 88.1 FM in Allentown and
Bethlehem, 93.9 FM in Easton and Phillipsburg, and on 93.7 FM in
Trexlertown and Fogelsville.  WDIY also broadcasts in HD Digital Radio
on 88.1 FM.
Galactic Travels web site: http://galactictravels.info
Listen to WDIY at http://wdiy.org/programs/galactic-travels on-line.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jan 11 21:46:35 2013
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Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 13:46:41 -0800
From: Rick Walker <looppool@cruzio.com>
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To: MARK FRANCOMBE <mark@markfrancombe.com>,
        "LOOPERS DELIGHT (posting)" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Recommendations for iPad pad synth...
References: <3204DB3C-F489-41C9-AF3D-F04D3817729D@mac.com>
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My current favorite iPAD synths are

MorphWhiz *SampleWhiz*  (both by uber creative keyboard wiz, Jordan Rudess)
To me, more than anyone,  he has designed things for the iPad that 
transcend a lot
of normal keyboards and even soft synths

The use of multiple fingers, different kinds of touch sensitivity and the
3d motion sensing of the iPad really lend to some great expressiveness

I love the iPad!

and
*
**Grain Science*


The latter is seriously deep and has a set of programmable
X/Y pads that can be assigned to anything so that morphability
in real time is limitless.
It creates beautiful, edgy and modern sounds.   Great app, imho.

I also found a bunch of specific noise generating iPad apps
but my iPad is not where I am right now, so I'll post that list later.

Rick Walker

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<html>
  <head>
    <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
      http-equiv="Content-Type">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    My current favorite iPAD synths are<br>
    <big><br>
      MorphWhiz</big>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <b>SampleWhiz</b>&nbsp; (both by uber creative
    keyboard wiz, Jordan Rudess)<br>
    To me, more than anyone,&nbsp; he has designed things for the iPad that
    transcend a lot <br>
    of normal keyboards and even soft synths<br>
    <br>
    The use of multiple fingers, different kinds of touch sensitivity
    and the <br>
    3d motion sensing of the iPad really lend to some great
    expressiveness<br>
    <br>
    I love the iPad!<br>
    <br>
    and <br>
    <b><br>
    </b><b>Grain Science</b><br>
    <br>
    <br>
    The latter is seriously deep and has a set of programmable <br>
    X/Y pads that can be assigned to anything so that morphability <br>
    in real time is limitless.<br>
    It creates beautiful, edgy and modern sounds.&nbsp;&nbsp; Great app, imho.<br>
    <br>
    I also found a bunch of specific noise generating iPad apps <br>
    but my iPad is not where I am right now, so I'll post that list
    later.<br>
    <br>
    Rick Walker<br>
  </body>
</html>

--------------030304020809070905070200--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jan 11 21:51:53 2013
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Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 13:51:56 -0800
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To: christoph grab <info@christophgrab.com>,
        "LOOPERS DELIGHT (posting)" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Re: Bad experience with Looperlative LP-2
References: <795D4CCE-FFAB-4B93-9B63-27445097597D@christophgrab.com>
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On 1/11/2013 1:11 AM, christoph grab wrote:
> I'm a saxophonist from Switzerland doing some looping from time to 
> time. When I heard about the LP-2 I thought this would be holy grail 
> of the looper pedals - small, with the right features to be creative 
> while looping. In october'11 I ordered it from Bob Amstad.
> When I got it some months later I had to notice that it didn't work as 
> advertised at all. The feedback function didn't work with the pedals I 
> tried. It even crashed sometimes. In continous trigger mode I got half 
> a second of silence in the loop, which makes the function completely 
> useless.
> So far, so bad. But the worst thing is: After sending it back to Bob 
> (which he proposed) I never got a replacement unit or some money back. 
> He even doesn't react on emails anymore.
> I'm posting this not only to warn other people, but also to ask if 
> somebody had similar problems and how you could resolve it.
> Best wishes from Switzerland
> Christoph
>
> http://www.christophgrab.com
> http://www.youtube.com/user/beestreet13
>
I'll jump on that right away for you,  Cristoph.
You have every right to be angry about this, but I hope
we can get this fixed for you as quickly as possible.

I'm so sorry for your experience but we'll make it right for you.
The first batch were defective and it took quite a while to get the 
problems
worked out, but Bob finally did and is in the process of sending out units
and replacing defective units.

I'll call Bob today on your behalf.

please write me off list if you have any more questions and please send 
me your mailing
address.

My sincerest regrets,

Rick Walker (I don't actually work, officially, for Looperlative but I 
did design the feature set
and am working with Bob on Looperaltive matters just to help out, 
unofficially)

--------------020902040103010006090800
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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/11/2013 1:11 AM, christoph grab
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:%3C795D4CCE-FFAB-4B93-9B63-27445097597D@christophgrab.com%3E"
      type="cite">
      <div>I'm a saxophonist from Switzerland doing some looping from
        time to time. When I heard about the LP-2 I thought this would
        be holy grail of the looper pedals - small, with the right
        features to be creative while looping. In october'11 I ordered
        it from Bob Amstad.</div>
      <div>When I got it some months later I had to notice that it
        didn't work as advertised at all. The feedback function didn't
        work with the pedals I tried. It even crashed sometimes. In
        continous trigger mode I got half a second of silence in the
        loop, which makes the function completely useless.</div>
      <div>So far, so bad. But the worst thing is: After sending it back
        to Bob (which he proposed) I never got a replacement unit or
        some money back. He even doesn't react on emails anymore.</div>
      <div>I'm posting this not only to warn other people, but also to
        ask if somebody had similar problems and how you could resolve
        it.</div>
      Best wishes from Switzerland
      <div>Christoph<br>
        <div apple-content-edited="true">
          <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse:
            separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal;
            font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
            normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align:
            -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
            white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
            -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px;
            -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px;
            -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;
            -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
            0px; font-size: medium; ">
            <div>
              <div>
                <div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size: 12px; "><font
                    class="Apple-style-span" face="'Century Gothic'"><br>
                  </font></div>
              </div>
              <div class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: Helvetica;
                font-size: 12px; "><font class="Apple-style-span"
                  face="'Century Gothic'"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://www.christophgrab.com">http://www.christophgrab.com</a></font></div>
              <div class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: Helvetica;
                font-size: 12px; "><font class="Apple-style-span"
                  face="'Century Gothic'"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://www.youtube.com/user/beestreet13">http://www.youtube.com/user/beestreet13</a></font></div>
            </div>
          </span>
        </div>
        <br>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    I'll jump on that right away for you,&nbsp; Cristoph.<br>
    You have every right to be angry about this, but I hope <br>
    we can get this fixed for you as quickly as possible.<br>
    <br>
    I'm so sorry for your experience but we'll make it right for you.<br>
    The first batch were defective and it took quite a while to get the
    problems <br>
    worked out, but Bob finally did and is in the process of sending out
    units <br>
    and replacing defective units.<br>
    <br>
    I'll call Bob today on your behalf.<br>
    <br>
    please write me off list if you have any more questions and please
    send me your mailing <br>
    address.<br>
    <br>
    My sincerest regrets,<br>
    <br>
    Rick Walker (I don't actually work, officially, for Looperlative but
    I did design the feature set <br>
    and am working with Bob on Looperaltive matters just to help out,
    unofficially)<br>
  </body>
</html>

--------------020902040103010006090800--

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Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 15:42:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Elmer Fuddski <jakebrakesrule@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Bad experience with Looperlative LP-2
To: loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com
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When will the LP2 be available for shipping. I really would like to buy one.

Jamie


------------------------------
On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 1:51 PM PST Rick Walker wrote:

>On 1/11/2013 1:11 AM, christoph grab wrote:
>> I'm a saxophonist from Switzerland doing some looping from time to time. When I heard about the LP-2 I thought this would be holy grail of the looper pedals - small, with the right features to be creative while looping. In october'11 I ordered it from Bob Amstad.
>> When I got it some months later I had to notice that it didn't work as advertised at all. The feedback function didn't work with the pedals I tried. It even crashed sometimes. In continous trigger mode I got half a second of silence in the loop, which makes the function completely useless.
>> So far, so bad. But the worst thing is: After sending it back to Bob (which he proposed) I never got a replacement unit or some money back. He even doesn't react on emails anymore.
>> I'm posting this not only to warn other people, but also to ask if somebody had similar problems and how you could resolve it.
>> Best wishes from Switzerland
>> Christoph
>> 
>> http://www.christophgrab.com
>> http://www.youtube.com/user/beestreet13
>> 
>I'll jump on that right away for you,  Cristoph.
>You have every right to be angry about this, but I hope
>we can get this fixed for you as quickly as possible.
>
>I'm so sorry for your experience but we'll make it right for you.
>The first batch were defective and it took quite a while to get the problems
>worked out, but Bob finally did and is in the process of sending out units
>and replacing defective units.
>
>I'll call Bob today on your behalf.
>
>please write me off list if you have any more questions and please send me your mailing
>address.
>
>My sincerest regrets,
>
>Rick Walker (I don't actually work, officially, for Looperlative but I did design the feature set
>and am working with Bob on Looperaltive matters just to help out, unofficially)

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jan 12 02:37:35 2013
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Subject: Listen to Thought Radio
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THOUGHT RADIO:                       http://soundscapes.us/thoughtradio
=======================================================================
My next stint on Thought Radio, the Saturday edition of The AM/FM Show,
will be Saturday, January 12 at 6 am EST/GMT-5.  In Phase One, I will
continue the special on Sequences Electronic Music Magazine's sampler
CDs as well as new music from Arcane.  You'll hear new music from The
Room and Pinnick, Gales & Pridgen during Phase Three.

I host the show about every other week. When I am at the helm, the show
features electronic, ambient, and spacemusic at the beginning, an
eclectic mix of genres in the middle, and winds up with Progressive
Rock.

Tune in at 91.7 FM or on the internet at
http://muhlenberg.edu/wmuh/stream.html

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jan 12 04:26:46 2013
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Subject: Re: New Photo Essay on Flickr
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 23:26:42 -0500
To: "Emile Tobenfeld (a.k.a Dr. T)" <emile@foryourhead.com>
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Emile really lovely lovely nice series of winter and passing seasons work, p=
articularly like all the contrast and graphic shapes that are happening.  Ha=
ppy new year to you.

Jim

On Jan 9, 2013, at 11:00 PM, "Emile Tobenfeld (a.k.a Dr. T)" <emile@foryourh=
ead.com> wrote:

> Hi folks,
>=20
> I haven't posted  on Flickr anything since July, so I'll make up for it by=
 posting my best photos of 2012 in approximately chronological order.
>=20
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/22231918@N06/sets/72157632485591206
> --=20
> " Practice makes perfect, imperfect is better."  -- Paul Bley
>=20
>        Emile Tobenfeld, Ph. D.
> Video Producer            Image Processing Specialist
> Video for your HEAD!            Boris FX
> http://www.foryourhead.com        http://www.borisfx.com

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To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: question re: hardware samplers?
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This topic is somewhat dated, so I'll just add my proverbial .02 to it - 
sorry if it has already been covered:
One of the things with the hardware samplers of old is getting stuff 
stored/restored. Typcially, it's oldskool parallel/single-ended SCSI, 
and nobody uses that anymore, and any media you get for that (e.g. 
harddisks) are old, slow, big package, small capacity and loud. However, 
there's workarounds for that.

As for the use as an instrument (as for capturing instrument sounds and 
playing them in a tuned fashion), there really isn't any reason to work 
on a hardware solution today. If someone still uses a hardware sampler, it's
    a) capturing loops on the fly (aka the DJ application - see Akai MPC 
etc.)
    b) samplers which can do funny other things in realtime (aka the 
oddness of Thomas DiMuzio and his Kurz)

As for b), list member Matt Davignon did a three-part interview on 
youtube with artist (and Y2kloopfest performer) Thomas DiMuzio:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6SSlv-1Zew
He uses a Kurzweil K2600RS, which has a feature called "live sampling" 
where you can play your samples while they are played - without going 
into too many details, just watch those videos, and you'll get the hang 
of it.

Are there other things (hw or sw) which do that what the Kurzweil does, btw?

The Kurz is, as mentioned above, using oldskool SCSI for storage. If you 
really must use one (like me), a good approach is to use a 
SCSI-connected card reader, which allows you to design your sample sets 
on the computer, then copy them to an e.g. SD card and quickly transfer 
them to the Kurz - an approach which should work with other hw samplers 
as well.

Yours,

          Rainer

Scott Hansen schrieb:
> does anyone (DJs?) still use hardware samplers anymore? or has 
> everything gone to computer software?
> i was just curious.
> seems like all i ever see anymore in DJ pics is computers w/ a small 
> mixer....but maybe i'm not looking close enough!


-- 
http://moinlabs.de
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/moinlabs

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Kevin Cheli-Colando schrieb:
> what kinds of tricks people have come up with to A) keep their studio
> space as clutter free and productive as possible B) make set-up and
> tear down of gear manageable and C) whatever else works for you and
> makes your musical life better (materially speaking)
What everyone else said, generally, only:
Cable tiers are invaluable for all applications! Get them and use them. 
Discriminate between those which will remain in place forever (or for a 
long time), and those which you need to open again regularily.
for a):
Patchbays are important. I tend to plan my setups around the patchbays, 
and then optimize the wiring around those.
Coloured cables also help, especially in cramped racks.
A logic where you put your wires is also helpful (e.g. audio on the 
left, power and MIDI on the right).

for b):
that rule from software engineering also applies - the setup isn't 
finished when there's nothing left to be added, it's finished when 
there's nothing left to be removed.
specialized and high-quality cases/bags are your friend.
(laptop) computers are not optimized to be built into a music setup. 
This requires specific solutions (e.g. I'm using a "Studio2Go" case by 
Gator, which holds the laptop, the audio interface and the wireless 
stuff in one case. A pair of XLRs to the mains and connectors to the 
faderbox and floor pedal (marked) come out at the back).
Or work around that by using an industry PC (which you can then 
remote-control with a tablet or smartphone).
Use multicores if applicable.
Practice your setup/teardown. Take a video of you doing it, and take 
time. Find out where you lose time and optimize your setup at these 
points. E.g. if you find that you always lose 10 seconds to find out 
which of the two XLRs is left and which is right channel because you 
have to turn them around until you see the label, either put labels on 
both sides, or use coloured cables, or make them come out at different 
sides from your rack.
Document, and keep the documentation with your gear. Normally, you will 
not need it, but if at a gig you find that the signal from the wireless 
receiver doesn't arrive at the audio interface, it helps to just look 
into a chart which says "wireless out through yellow patch cable into 
input 2 of audio interface".

    Rainer

-- 
http://moinlabs.de
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/moinlabs

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From: Steven Clements <sdclements@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 07:59:28 -0700
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Subject: Re: question re: hardware samplers?
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--bcaec54ee14cfcce0104d318aa8b
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Wow those were GREAT vids

I'd love to see how he put that all together - what an inspiration!


On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 5:38 AM, Rainer Straschill <moinsound@googlemail.com
> wrote:

> This topic is somewhat dated, so I'll just add my proverbial .02 to it -
> sorry if it has already been covered:
> One of the things with the hardware samplers of old is getting stuff
> stored/restored. Typcially, it's oldskool parallel/single-ended SCSI, and
> nobody uses that anymore, and any media you get for that (e.g. harddisks)
> are old, slow, big package, small capacity and loud. However, there's
> workarounds for that.
>
> As for the use as an instrument (as for capturing instrument sounds and
> playing them in a tuned fashion), there really isn't any reason to work on
> a hardware solution today. If someone still uses a hardware sampler, it's
>    a) capturing loops on the fly (aka the DJ application - see Akai MPC
> etc.)
>    b) samplers which can do funny other things in realtime (aka the
> oddness of Thomas DiMuzio and his Kurz)
>
> As for b), list member Matt Davignon did a three-part interview on youtube
> with artist (and Y2kloopfest performer) Thomas DiMuzio:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?**v=z6SSlv-1Zew<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6SSlv-1Zew>
> He uses a Kurzweil K2600RS, which has a feature called "live sampling"
> where you can play your samples while they are played - without going into
> too many details, just watch those videos, and you'll get the hang of it.
>
> Are there other things (hw or sw) which do that what the Kurzweil does,
> btw?
>
> The Kurz is, as mentioned above, using oldskool SCSI for storage. If you
> really must use one (like me), a good approach is to use a SCSI-connected
> card reader, which allows you to design your sample sets on the computer,
> then copy them to an e.g. SD card and quickly transfer them to the Kurz -
> an approach which should work with other hw samplers as well.
>
> Yours,
>
>          Rainer
>
> Scott Hansen schrieb:
>
>  does anyone (DJs?) still use hardware samplers anymore? or has everything
>> gone to computer software?
>> i was just curious.
>> seems like all i ever see anymore in DJ pics is computers w/ a small
>> mixer....but maybe i'm not looking close enough!
>>
>
>
> --
> http://moinlabs.de
> Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/moinlabs
>
>

--bcaec54ee14cfcce0104d318aa8b
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
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Wow those were GREAT vids<br><br>I&#39;d love to see how he put that all to=
gether - what an inspiration!<br><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat,=
 Jan 12, 2013 at 5:38 AM, Rainer Straschill <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:moinsound@googlemail.com" target=3D"_blank">moinsound@googlemail=
.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">This topic is somewhat dated, so I&#39;ll ju=
st add my proverbial .02 to it - sorry if it has already been covered:<br>

One of the things with the hardware samplers of old is getting stuff stored=
/restored. Typcially, it&#39;s oldskool parallel/single-ended SCSI, and nob=
ody uses that anymore, and any media you get for that (e.g. harddisks) are =
old, slow, big package, small capacity and loud. However, there&#39;s worka=
rounds for that.<br>


<br>
As for the use as an instrument (as for capturing instrument sounds and pla=
ying them in a tuned fashion), there really isn&#39;t any reason to work on=
 a hardware solution today. If someone still uses a hardware sampler, it&#3=
9;s<br>


=C2=A0 =C2=A0a) capturing loops on the fly (aka the DJ application - see Ak=
ai MPC etc.)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0b) samplers which can do funny other things in realtime (aka t=
he oddness of Thomas DiMuzio and his Kurz)<br>
<br>
As for b), list member Matt Davignon did a three-part interview on youtube =
with artist (and Y2kloopfest performer) Thomas DiMuzio:<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dz6SSlv-1Zew" target=3D"_blank">=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?<u></u>v=3Dz6SSlv-1Zew</a><br>
He uses a Kurzweil K2600RS, which has a feature called &quot;live sampling&=
quot; where you can play your samples while they are played - without going=
 into too many details, just watch those videos, and you&#39;ll get the han=
g of it.<br>


<br>
Are there other things (hw or sw) which do that what the Kurzweil does, btw=
?<br>
<br>
The Kurz is, as mentioned above, using oldskool SCSI for storage. If you re=
ally must use one (like me), a good approach is to use a SCSI-connected car=
d reader, which allows you to design your sample sets on the computer, then=
 copy them to an e.g. SD card and quickly transfer them to the Kurz - an ap=
proach which should work with other hw samplers as well.<br>


<br>
Yours,<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Rainer<br>
<br>
Scott Hansen schrieb:<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
does anyone (DJs?) still use hardware samplers anymore? or has everything g=
one to computer software?<br>
i was just curious.<br>
seems like all i ever see anymore in DJ pics is computers w/ a small mixer.=
...but maybe i&#39;m not looking close enough!<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br></div></div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">
-- <br>
<a href=3D"http://moinlabs.de" target=3D"_blank">http://moinlabs.de</a><br>
Follow me on twitter: <a href=3D"http://twitter.com/moinlabs" target=3D"_bl=
ank">http://twitter.com/moinlabs</a><br>
<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br>

--bcaec54ee14cfcce0104d318aa8b--

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Please quit me--thanks!

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jan 12 16:04:04 2013
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I hereby quit you.

On Jan 12, 2013, at 9:47 AM, David Auker wrote:

> Please quit me--thanks!
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jan 12 18:08:08 2013
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Subject: Thought Radio Playlist for January 12, 2013.
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http://soundscapes.us/thoughtradio/playlists/2013/130112.html

The Saturday edition of The AM/FM Show has alternating hosts.  When I am
at the helm, the show is called Thought Radio and you can expect to hear
electronic, ambient, spacemusic, Progressive Rock, and an eclectic mix
of other genres.  The show airs from 6:00 am to 8:00 am EST/GMT-5 on
WMUH Allentown, 91.7 FM and on the internet.  I also host Afterglow
every Thursday from 8:00 am to 9:30 am.
http://soundscapes.us/afterglow/index.html

Show #241 January 12, 2013.

Phase I/Space:

ARTIST               TRACK                ALBUM (label)
==================== ==================== ==============================
VA [Kirchenkampf]    aliensapiens         Doomsday and Brimstone (Sound
                                             for Good)
VA [Ian Boddy and    Excert from Red      Sequences No. 22
   Markus Reuter]       Giant
VA [Nautilus]        Deep Earth           Sequences No. 22
Arcane               The Portrain         A Tale of Unease (none)
Steve Roach          Soul Tones *         Soul Tones (Timeroom Editions)


Phase II/Eclectic:

ARTIST               TRACK                ALBUM (label)
==================== ==================== ==============================
Trine Opsahl         To a Wild Rose       Somewhere In a Hidden Memory
                                             (Heart to Heart)
Trine Opsahl         A Star In Heaven Is  Somewhere In a Hidden Memory
                        Born Tonight         (Heart to Heart)
Uwe Gronau           centre Pompidou      Visions (none)
Project Trio         William Tell         When Will Then Be Now (none)
                        Overture


Phase III/Progressive Rock:

ARTIST               TRACK                ALBUM (label)
==================== ==================== ==============================
Tiles                Reasonable Doubt     Presents of Mind (Magna Carta)
Nick D'Virgilio      Childhood's End      Pieces (none)
Pinnick Gales        Hang On, Big Brother Pinnick Gales Pridgen (Magna
   Pridgen                                   Carta)
Pinnick Gales        Wishing Well         Pinnick Gales Pridgen (Magna
   Pridgen                                   Carta)
The Room             The Spark            Open Fire (Melodic Revolution)
Elliot Knap          An Unsettling        Cheap Seats at the Cartesian
                        Preposition          Theater (none)
Alan Morse           Cold Fusion *        Four O'clock and Hysteria
                                             (InsideOut)

  * = excerpt
++ = Advanced CDR from artist
VA = Various Artists (compilation)

On the next show, I will continue the special on the sampler CDRs that
come with each issue of Sequences electronic music magazine.

Bill Fox
========================================================================
Host of Thought Radio, the Saturday edition of The AM/FM Show every
other Saturday at 6:00 am EST/GMT-5.
Phase 1: Electronic, ambient, and space music.
Phase 2: Mixed bag of acoustic, electric, pop, or New Age.
Phase 3: Progressive rock from past masters to contemporary releases.
Website - http://soundscapes.us/thoughtradio
Listen to WMUH Allentown locally at 91.7 FM or on-line at
http://www.muhlenberg.edu/wmuh/stream.html

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jan 12 20:59:53 2013
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--20cf3071c8bc7dc66904d31db133
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Awww Jeff, dont be sarky to the poor quitter... he did say thanks...

The thing is David, you can't quit... you are stuck with unfeasible amounts
of mail forever, we all hate looping really, just we put up with it rather
than st pressing the delete button 30 times a day...

Or you can go to the Loopers Delight website and read how to do it.. but
none of us can understand that...

Good luck!

M


On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 4:55 PM, Jeff Shirkey <jcshirke@frontier.com> wrote:

> I hereby quit you.
>
> On Jan 12, 2013, at 9:47 AM, David Auker wrote:
>
>  Please quit me--thanks!
>>
>>
>


-- 
*Mark Francombe*
www.markfrancombe.com
www.ordoabkhao.com
http://vimeo.com/user825094
http://www.looop.no
twitter @markfrancombe
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/

--20cf3071c8bc7dc66904d31db133
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Awww Jeff, dont be sarky to the poor quitter... he did say=
 thanks...<div><br></div><div style>The thing is David, you can&#39;t quit.=
.. you are stuck with=A0unfeasible=A0amounts of mail forever, we all hate l=
ooping really, just we put up with it rather than st pressing the delete bu=
tton 30 times a day...</div>

<div style><br></div><div style>Or you can go to the Loopers Delight websit=
e and read how to do it.. but none of us can understand that...</div><div s=
tyle><br></div><div style>Good luck!</div><div style><br></div><div style>

M</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 4:55 PM, Jeff Shirkey <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:jcshirke@frontier.com" target=3D"_blank">jcshirke@frontier.com</=
a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I hereby quit you.<br>
<br>
On Jan 12, 2013, at 9:47 AM, David Auker wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Please quit me--thanks!<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><i style=3D"=
font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(255,255,255);background-color:rgb(=
0,0,0)"><font style=3D"font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif" size=3D"4"><u>M=
ark Francombe</u></font></i><br>

<font size=3D"1"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.markfra=
ncombe.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.markfrancombe.com</a><br style=3D"color:=
rgb(51,0,51)"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.ordoabkhao=
.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.ordoabkhao.com</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,=
51)">

<a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://vimeo.com/user825094" target=
=3D"_blank">http://vimeo.com/user825094</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)"=
><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.looop.no/" target=3D"_b=
lank">http://www.looop.no</a><br>

twitter @markfrancombe<br><a href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@=
N00/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/</a><br><=
/font>
</div>

--20cf3071c8bc7dc66904d31db133--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jan 12 21:03:27 2013
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Subject: Re: QUIT
From: Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com>
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Yeah, in fact this mailing list is what Hotel California is about. Few
knows because none has escaped... but the truth is in the loop. If you
miss it it will hit again. And again. And again.

Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.perboysen.com
http://www.youtube.com/perboysen


On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 9:59 PM, mark francombe <mark@markfrancombe.com> wrote:
> Awww Jeff, dont be sarky to the poor quitter... he did say thanks...
>
> The thing is David, you can't quit... you are stuck with unfeasible amounts
> of mail forever, we all hate looping really, just we put up with it rather
> than st pressing the delete button 30 times a day...
>
> Or you can go to the Loopers Delight website and read how to do it.. but
> none of us can understand that...
>
> Good luck!
>
> M
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 4:55 PM, Jeff Shirkey <jcshirke@frontier.com> wrote:
>>
>> I hereby quit you.
>>
>> On Jan 12, 2013, at 9:47 AM, David Auker wrote:
>>
>>> Please quit me--thanks!
>>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Mark Francombe
> www.markfrancombe.com
> www.ordoabkhao.com
> http://vimeo.com/user825094
> http://www.looop.no
> twitter @markfrancombe
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jan 12 21:06:49 2013
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Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 13:06:48 -0800 (PST)
From: Tim Nelson <psychle62@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: Tim Nelson <psychle62@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: QUIT
To: "Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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http://youtu.be/jwlYo8EYTWI

http://www.loopers-delight.com/LDarchive/200705/msg00605.html



On Jan 12, 2013, at 9:47 AM, David Auker wrote:
>
>
>Please quit me--thanks!
>>
>>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jan 13 01:50:40 2013
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Subject: Re: QUIT
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 17:50:25 -0800
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Aw, guess I=E2=80=99d miss the mail, not that I even read most of it =
(does anyone?)=20

From: mark francombe=20
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:59 PM
To: loopers-delight=20
Subject: Re: QUIT

Awww Jeff, dont be sarky to the poor quitter... he did say thanks...=20

The thing is David, you can't quit... you are stuck with unfeasible =
amounts of mail forever, we all hate looping really, just we put up with =
it rather than st pressing the delete button 30 times a day...

Or you can go to the Loopers Delight website and read how to do it.. but =
none of us can understand that...

Good luck!

M



On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 4:55 PM, Jeff Shirkey <jcshirke@frontier.com> =
wrote:

  I hereby quit you.

  On Jan 12, 2013, at 9:47 AM, David Auker wrote:


    Please quit me--thanks!








--=20
Mark Francombe
www.markfrancombe.com
www.ordoabkhao.com
http://vimeo.com/user825094
http://www.looop.no
twitter @markfrancombe
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/

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<HTML><HEAD></HEAD>
<BODY dir=3Dltr>
<DIV dir=3Dltr>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV>Aw, guess I=E2=80=99d miss the mail, not that I even read most of =
it (does anyone?)=20
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; =
COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: =
none">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style=3D"font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A =
title=3Dmark@markfrancombe.com=20
href=3D"mailto:mark@markfrancombe.com">mark francombe</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:59 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=3DLoopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">loopers-delight</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: QUIT</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; =
COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: =
none">
<DIV dir=3Dltr>Awww Jeff, dont be sarky to the poor quitter... he did =
say=20
thanks...=20
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>The thing is David, you can't quit... you are stuck with unfeasible =
amounts=20
of mail forever, we all hate looping really, just we put up with it =
rather than=20
st pressing the delete button 30 times a day...</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Or you can go to the Loopers Delight website and read how to do =
it.. but=20
none of us can understand that...</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Good luck!</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>M</DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3Dgmail_extra><BR><BR>
<DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 4:55 PM, Jeff Shirkey =
<SPAN=20
dir=3Dltr>&lt;<A href=3D"mailto:jcshirke@frontier.com"=20
target=3D_blank>jcshirke@frontier.com</A>&gt;</SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; =
PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"=20
class=3Dgmail_quote>I hereby quit you.<BR><BR>On Jan 12, 2013, at 9:47 =
AM, David=20
  Auker wrote:<BR><BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; =
PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"=20
  class=3Dgmail_quote>Please quit=20
me--thanks!<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR =
clear=3Dall>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>-- <BR><I=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-FAMILY: verdana,sans-serif; =
COLOR: rgb(255,255,255)"><FONT=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: trebuchet ms,sans-serif" size=3D4><U>Mark=20
Francombe</U></FONT></I><BR><FONT size=3D1><A style=3D"COLOR: =
rgb(51,0,51)"=20
href=3D"http://www.markfrancombe.com/" =
target=3D_blank>www.markfrancombe.com</A><BR=20
style=3D"COLOR: rgb(51,0,51)"><A style=3D"COLOR: rgb(51,0,51)"=20
href=3D"http://www.ordoabkhao.com/" =
target=3D_blank>www.ordoabkhao.com</A><BR=20
style=3D"COLOR: rgb(51,0,51)"><A style=3D"COLOR: rgb(51,0,51)"=20
href=3D"http://vimeo.com/user825094"=20
target=3D_blank>http://vimeo.com/user825094</A><BR style=3D"COLOR: =
rgb(51,0,51)"><A=20
style=3D"COLOR: rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.looop.no/"=20
target=3D_blank>http://www.looop.no</A><BR>twitter @markfrancombe<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/"=20
target=3D_blank>http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/</A><BR></FONT>=
</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From: TripleOhNine <3x09@carlsonarts.com>
Subject: Re: QUIT
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 17:53:32 -0800
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Please acquit me.

OJ

On Jan 12, 2013, at 5:50 PM, David Auker wrote:

> Aw, guess I=92d miss the mail, not that I even read most of it (does =
anyone?)
> =20
> From: mark francombe
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:59 PM
> To: loopers-delight
> Subject: Re: QUIT
> =20
> Awww Jeff, dont be sarky to the poor quitter... he did say thanks...
> =20
> The thing is David, you can't quit... you are stuck with unfeasible =
amounts of mail forever, we all hate looping really, just we put up with =
it rather than st pressing the delete button 30 times a day...
> =20
> Or you can go to the Loopers Delight website and read how to do it.. =
but none of us can understand that...
> =20
> Good luck!
> =20
> M
>=20
>=20
> On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 4:55 PM, Jeff Shirkey <jcshirke@frontier.com> =
wrote:
> I hereby quit you.
>=20
> On Jan 12, 2013, at 9:47 AM, David Auker wrote:
>=20
> Please quit me--thanks!
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> =20
> --=20
> Mark Francombe
> www.markfrancombe.com
> www.ordoabkhao.com
> http://vimeo.com/user825094
> http://www.looop.no
> twitter @markfrancombe
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/


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<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
">Please acquit me.<div><br></div><div>OJ</div><div><br><div><div>On Jan =
12, 2013, at 5:50 PM, David Auker wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div =
dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<div>Aw, guess I=92d miss the mail, not that I even read most of it =
(does anyone?)=20
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; =
TEXT-DECORATION: none">
<div style=3D"FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<div style=3D"font-color: black"><b>From:</b> <a =
title=3D"mark@markfrancombe.com" =
href=3D"mailto:mark@markfrancombe.com">mark francombe</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:59 PM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title=3D"Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" =
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">loopers-delight</a> =
</div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: QUIT</div></div></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div></div>
<div style=3D"FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; =
TEXT-DECORATION: none">
<div dir=3D"ltr">Awww Jeff, dont be sarky to the poor quitter... he did =
say=20
thanks...=20
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>The thing is David, you can't quit... you are stuck with unfeasible =
amounts=20
of mail forever, we all hate looping really, just we put up with it =
rather than=20
st pressing the delete button 30 times a day...</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Or you can go to the Loopers Delight website and read how to do =
it.. but=20
none of us can understand that...</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Good luck!</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>M</div></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 4:55 PM, Jeff Shirkey =
<span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jcshirke@frontier.com" =
target=3D"_blank">jcshirke@frontier.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">I hereby quit =
you.<br><br>On Jan 12, 2013, at 9:47 AM, David=20
  Auker wrote:<br><br>
  <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">Please quit=20
me--thanks!<br><br></blockquote><br></blockquote></div><br><br =
clear=3D"all">
<div>&nbsp;</div>-- <br><i style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); =
FONT-FAMILY: verdana,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(255,255,255)"><font =
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: trebuchet ms,sans-serif" size=3D"4"><u>Mark=20
Francombe</u></font></i><br><font size=3D"1"><a style=3D"COLOR: =
rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.markfrancombe.com/" =
target=3D"_blank">www.markfrancombe.com</a><br style=3D"COLOR: =
rgb(51,0,51)"><a style=3D"COLOR: rgb(51,0,51)" =
href=3D"http://www.ordoabkhao.com/" =
target=3D"_blank">www.ordoabkhao.com</a><br style=3D"COLOR: =
rgb(51,0,51)"><a style=3D"COLOR: rgb(51,0,51)" =
href=3D"http://vimeo.com/user825094" =
target=3D"_blank">http://vimeo.com/user825094</a><br style=3D"COLOR: =
rgb(51,0,51)"><a style=3D"COLOR: rgb(51,0,51)" =
href=3D"http://www.looop.no/" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.looop.no</a><br>twitter =
@markfrancombe<br><a href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/</a><br></font=
></div></div></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>=

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And please requite me!




On Jan 12, 2013, at 5:53 PM, TripleOhNine <3x09@carlsonarts.com> wrote:

> Please acquit me.

David Gans - david@trufun.com or david@gdhour.com
Truth and Fun, Inc., 484 Lake Park Ave. #102, Oakland CA 94610-2730
Blog:  http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com
Web site: http://www.dgans.com
Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dgans
Music: http://www.cdbaby.com/all/dgans





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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dwindows-1252"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
"><div><br></div><div><br></div>And please requite =
me!<div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On =
Jan 12, 2013, at 5:53 PM, TripleOhNine &lt;3x09@<a =
href=3D"http://carlsonarts.com">carlsonarts.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span =
style=3D"font-family: Times; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
display: inline !important; float: none; ">Please acquit me.</span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></blockquote></div><br><div =
apple-content-edited=3D"true">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Times; font-size: medium; font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Times; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"Times"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: =
medium; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Helvetica" =
size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; =
"><div>David Gans - <a =
href=3D"mailto:david@trufun.com">david@trufun.com</a> or <a =
href=3D"mailto:david@gdhour.com">david@gdhour.com</a></div><div>Truth =
and Fun, Inc., 484 Lake Park Ave. #102, Oakland CA =
94610-2730</div><div>Blog: &nbsp;<a =
href=3D"http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com">http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com</a>=
</div><div>Web site: <a =
href=3D"http://www.dgans.com">http://www.dgans.com</a></div><div>Photos: =
<a =
href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/photos/dgans">http://www.flickr.com/photos/d=
gans</a></div><div>Music: <a =
href=3D"http://www.cdbaby.com/all/dgans">http://www.cdbaby.com/all/dgans</=
a></div><div><br></div></span></font></span></font></div></div></span></di=
v><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_2617B9D1-5400-4FA0-AC59-D5B4F0E8FF63--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jan 13 03:56:23 2013
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Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 19:56:34 -0800
From: Rick Walker <looppool@cruzio.com>
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To: Elmer Fuddski <jakebrakesrule@yahoo.com>,
        "LOOPERS DELIGHT (posting)" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: When will the LP-2 be ready to ship   was: Bad experience with Looperlative
 LP-2
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I don't have a date yet.

Bob is making sure every person who bought one originally gets
a working one or their money refunded.

I imagine it will take a month more at least, but I'll let you know as 
soon as he starts
taking new orders.

Right now,  unlike perhaps any other hardware looper on the market,  
they are being hand
assembled.


Rick Walker


On 1/11/2013 3:42 PM, Elmer Fuddski wrote:
> When will the LP2 be available for shipping. I really would like to buy one.
>
> Jamie
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jan 13 04:07:24 2013
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Subject: Re: When will the LP-2 be ready to ship   was: Bad experience with Looperlative LP-2
From: David Gans <david@trufun.com>
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So this time it is ready for prime time? I can order one and be pleased =
with what I get?



On Jan 12, 2013, at 7:56 PM, Rick Walker <looppool@cruzio.com> wrote:

> I don't have a date yet.
>=20
> Bob is making sure every person who bought one originally gets
> a working one or their money refunded.
>=20
> I imagine it will take a month more at least, but I'll let you know as =
soon as he starts
> taking new orders.
>=20
> Right now,  unlike perhaps any other hardware looper on the market,  =
they are being hand
> assembled.
>=20
>=20
> Rick Walker
>=20
>=20

David Gans - david@trufun.com or david@gdhour.com
Truth and Fun, Inc., 484 Lake Park Ave. #102, Oakland CA 94610-2730
Blog:  http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com
Web site: http://www.dgans.com
Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dgans
Music: http://www.cdbaby.com/all/dgans




From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jan 13 08:45:37 2013
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> http://youtu.be/jwlYo8EYTWI

lol  

-mpe

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jan 13 09:34:20 2013
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--Apple-Mail=_6D40B4B3-F727-44EB-B531-0BC867E052ED
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Well played, Monsieur!

On Jan 12, 2013, at 6:00 PM, David Gans wrote:

> 
> 
> And please requite me!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 12, 2013, at 5:53 PM, TripleOhNine <3x09@carlsonarts.com> wrote:
> 
>> Please acquit me.
> 
> David Gans - david@trufun.com or david@gdhour.com
> Truth and Fun, Inc., 484 Lake Park Ave. #102, Oakland CA 94610-2730
> Blog:  http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com
> Web site: http://www.dgans.com
> Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dgans
> Music: http://www.cdbaby.com/all/dgans
> 
> 
> 
> 


--Apple-Mail=_6D40B4B3-F727-44EB-B531-0BC867E052ED
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<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Well =
played, Monsieur!<div><br><div><div>On Jan 12, 2013, at 6:00 PM, David =
Gans wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dwindows-1252"><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
"><div><br></div><div><br></div>And please requite =
me!<div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On =
Jan 12, 2013, at 5:53 PM, TripleOhNine &lt;3x09@<a =
href=3D"http://carlsonarts.com/">carlsonarts.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span =
style=3D"font-family: Times; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
display: inline !important; float: none; ">Please acquit me.</span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></blockquote></div><br><div =
apple-content-edited=3D"true">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
font-family: Times; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: =
normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; font-family: Times; font-size: =
medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"Times"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: =
medium; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Helvetica" =
size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; =
"><div>David Gans - <a =
href=3D"mailto:david@trufun.com">david@trufun.com</a> or <a =
href=3D"mailto:david@gdhour.com">david@gdhour.com</a></div><div>Truth =
and Fun, Inc., 484 Lake Park Ave. #102, Oakland CA =
94610-2730</div><div>Blog: &nbsp;<a =
href=3D"http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com/">http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com</a=
></div><div>Web site: <a =
href=3D"http://www.dgans.com/">http://www.dgans.com</a></div><div>Photos: =
<a =
href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/photos/dgans">http://www.flickr.com/photos/d=
gans</a></div><div>Music: <a =
href=3D"http://www.cdbaby.com/all/dgans">http://www.cdbaby.com/all/dgans</=
a></div><div><br></div></span></font></span></font></div></div></span></di=
v><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_6D40B4B3-F727-44EB-B531-0BC867E052ED--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jan 13 13:24:15 2013
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Most of that is really the Kurz's unique live sampling feature 
(question: anyone familiar with an out-of-the-box hw or sw solution 
which can do that as well?).

Essentially, it uses the workstation's (very powerful) synthesis engine 
with samples as oscillators, only you can use what just came into the 
audio in as those samples, instead of preloaded ones.

Starting out, this gives you the possibility to move back in what you 
just played (using the large ribbon controller on the big keyboard 
version makes this really fun) and apply all of the funny things this 
synthesis engine offers in realtime. Add to that the powerful KDFX 
effects engine, and there's a lot of stuff you can do here.
I have to admit I haven't even started to work on the potential of this 
feature - I had been in email conversation with Thomas, but he kindly 
asked me to first show him my patches before he shared his (protecting 
his IP I suppose...).

The workflow is not optimized to quickly grab loop points for those 
realtime samples, but especially using that different pitches approach 
that Thomas demonstrates in the video, you could have some wicked 
polyrhythms going (e.g. have a live drummer play in 4/4, then play a 
IV-V-I turnaround along, which with the IV downwards has you going at 
2/3 the drummer's pace (i.e. if he plays 8ths, the Kurz plays 4 
triplets, and after one bar is one third of a bar behind), then play the 
V up, and now you're playing 8ths triplets and continue to move into 
sync with the live drummer for the I.

There's so much to try, so little time...

           Rainer

Steven Clements schrieb:
> Wow those were GREAT vids
>
> I'd love to see how he put that all together - what an inspiration!
>
>
>     As for b), list member Matt Davignon did a three-part interview on
>     youtube with artist (and Y2kloopfest performer) Thomas DiMuzio:
>     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6SSlv-1Zew
>     He uses a Kurzweil K2600RS, which has a feature called "live
>     sampling" where you can play your samples while they are played -
>     without going into too many details, just watch those videos, and
>     you'll get the hang of it.
>


-- 
http://moinlabs.de
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/moinlabs

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jan 13 13:37:37 2013
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Another one of my posts referring to age-old discussions - if something 
has already been said and I missed that, sorry.

First of all, the target audience of the score seems to be relevant for 
me: is that score for a conductor, tonmeister etc. (who doesn't play the 
piece, but needs to know how it will sound with the loops) or for a 
performer (who needs to know which device-operation steps he needs to 
take to make it sound the way the composer wanted it)?

As I'm in the process of writing stuff for musicians to perform from a 
score using e.g. and EDP or Möbius, here's what I though up:

One staff: the things the musician plays on his instrument:
another staff: the things he does with his looper. As e.g. for an EDP, 
you typcially only perform one action at a time, this can be reduced to 
one line (with crosses for short press, squares for long press, and 
normal heads for duration-dependent stuff -> sus), and simply put a 
letter describing the function on top of it ("R" for record, "O" for 
overdub etc.). Another approach could be to have a normal five-line 
system and assign the buttons to pitches (e.g. low C: record, low D: 
overdub etc.). As for readability of both these approaches, I'm still 
not decided (unless the performer would use bass pedals to control his 
looper, then it would perfectly make sense to notate that as normal 
pitches and map it to his preferred set of function->key assignments, 
something which the drum map feature in the DAW of your choice can 
easily do).

For continuous values, you could use standard dynamics notation for the 
loop volume, and either the same or percent values in text for feedback.

A third staff then could show what the loop that's playing right now 
sounds (perhaps use different note heads for reverse notes?). This would 
only work properly in cases where we don't have gazillions of overdubs 
in a non-rhythmic fashion, obviously - but if you have, say, a short 
riff, where you then overdub a short snippet of a note and then 
halfspeed that, that would work.

And finally, as I'm still in that thought process - any additional input 
here is most welcome!

          Rainer

Buzap Buzap schrieb:
> I was wondering: are there any commmon, modern music notation symbols for notating loops?
>
> Any suggestions?
>   


-- 
http://moinlabs.de
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/moinlabs

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From: kelly maxwell <apacheci5@hotmail.com>
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Subject: RE: QUIT
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 17:19:36 +0000
Importance: Normal
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 <CADRydNraLjvrUa9UA=4276v7P7JAfqJayQjMEMB9uHYK-DCaow@mail.gmail.com>
 <50F15940.50105@googlemail.com>
 <F3D4165669D54FE9894CC9E60D0BCC03@DavidAukerPC>
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 <CAJKe7obvA4dOkUQ06gpgEwZ_Di3r11T3Q5TdrnC9LXZn91SCqQ@mail.gmail.com>,<B7414090E4584AE9B527A3C3188F2017@DavidAukerPC>
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there is only one waty to leave group therapy.....DROP TROU!!!!!!!!!!!
=20
From: davauk@hevanet.com
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: QUIT
Date: Sat=2C 12 Jan 2013 17:50:25 -0800





Aw=2C guess I=92d miss the mail=2C not that I even read most of it (does an=
yone?)=20



=20

From: mark francombe=20
Sent: Saturday=2C January 12=2C 2013 12:59 PM
To: loopers-delight=20
Subject: Re: QUIT
=20

Awww Jeff=2C dont be sarky to the poor quitter... he did say=20
thanks...=20
=20
The thing is David=2C you can't quit... you are stuck with unfeasible amoun=
ts=20
of mail forever=2C we all hate looping really=2C just we put up with it rat=
her than=20
st pressing the delete button 30 times a day...
=20
Or you can go to the Loopers Delight website and read how to do it.. but=20
none of us can understand that...
=20
Good luck!
=20
M



On Sat=2C Jan 12=2C 2013 at 4:55 PM=2C Jeff Shirkey <jcshirke@frontier.com>=
 wrote:

I hereby quit you.

On Jan 12=2C 2013=2C at 9:47 AM=2C David=20
  Auker wrote:


  Please quit=20
me--thanks!




 --=20
Mark=20
Francombe
www.markfrancombe.comwww.ordoabkhao.comhttp://vimeo.com/user825094http://ww=
w.looop.no
twitter @markfrancombe
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/
 		 	   		  =

--_451b8ff2-ecfc-447b-bde5-62d3b5c62fd5_
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<html>
<head>
<style><!--
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{
margin:0px=3B
padding:0px
}
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{
font-size: 10pt=3B
font-family:Tahoma
}
--></style></head>
<body class=3D'hmmessage'><div dir=3D'ltr'>
there is only&nbsp=3Bone waty to leave group therapy.....DROP TROU!!!!!!!!!=
!!<br>&nbsp=3B<BR><div><hr id=3D"stopSpelling">From: davauk@hevanet.com<br>=
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com<br>Subject: Re: QUIT<br>Date: Sat=
=2C 12 Jan 2013 17:50:25 -0800<br><br>

<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D'color: rgb(0=2C 0=2C 0)=3B font-family: "Calibri"=3B font-siz=
e: 12pt=3B'>
<div>Aw=2C guess I=92d miss the mail=2C not that I even read most of it (do=
es anyone?)=20
</div>
<div style=3D'color: rgb(0=2C 0=2C 0)=3B font-family: "Calibri"=3B font-siz=
e: small=3B font-style: normal=3B font-weight: normal=3B text-decoration: n=
one=3B display: inline=3B'>
<div style=3D"font: 10pt/normal tahoma=3B font-size-adjust: none=3B font-st=
retch: normal=3B">
<div>&nbsp=3B</div>
<div style=3D"background: rgb(245=2C 245=2C 245)=3B">
<div style=3D"font-color: black=3B"><b>From:</b> <a title=3D"mark@markfranc=
ombe.com" href=3D"mailto:mark@markfrancombe.com">mark francombe</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Saturday=2C January 12=2C 2013 12:59 PM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title=3D"Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" href=3D"ma=
ilto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">loopers-delight</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: QUIT</div></div></div>
<div>&nbsp=3B</div></div>
<div style=3D'color: rgb(0=2C 0=2C 0)=3B font-family: "Calibri"=3B font-siz=
e: small=3B font-style: normal=3B font-weight: normal=3B text-decoration: n=
one=3B display: inline=3B'>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Awww Jeff=2C dont be sarky to the poor quitter... he did s=
ay=20
thanks...=20
<div>&nbsp=3B</div>
<div>The thing is David=2C you can't quit... you are stuck with unfeasible =
amounts=20
of mail forever=2C we all hate looping really=2C just we put up with it rat=
her than=20
st pressing the delete button 30 times a day...</div>
<div>&nbsp=3B</div>
<div>Or you can go to the Loopers Delight website and read how to do it.. b=
ut=20
none of us can understand that...</div>
<div>&nbsp=3B</div>
<div>Good luck!</div>
<div>&nbsp=3B</div>
<div>M</div></div>
<div class=3D"ecxgmail_extra"><br><br>
<div class=3D"ecxgmail_quote">On Sat=2C Jan 12=2C 2013 at 4:55 PM=2C Jeff S=
hirkey <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt=3B<a href=3D"mailto:jcshirke@frontier.com">jcs=
hirke@frontier.com</a>&gt=3B</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"padding-left: 1ex=3B border-left-color: rgb(204=2C 204=
=2C 204)=3B border-left-width: 1px=3B border-left-style: solid=3B" class=3D=
"ecxgmail_quote">I hereby quit you.<br><br>On Jan 12=2C 2013=2C at 9:47 AM=
=2C David=20
  Auker wrote:<br><br>
  <blockquote style=3D"padding-left: 1ex=3B border-left-color: rgb(204=2C 2=
04=2C 204)=3B border-left-width: 1px=3B border-left-style: solid=3B" class=
=3D"ecxgmail_quote">Please quit=20
me--thanks!<br><br></blockquote><br></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all=
">
<div>&nbsp=3B</div>-- <br><i style=3D"color: rgb(255=2C 255=2C 255)=3B font=
-family: verdana=2Csans-serif=3B background-color: rgb(0=2C 0=2C 0)=3B"><fo=
nt style=3D"font-family: trebuchet ms=2Csans-serif=3B" size=3D"4"><u>Mark=20
Francombe</u></font></i><br><font size=3D"1"><a style=3D"color: rgb(51=2C 0=
=2C 51)=3B" href=3D"http://www.markfrancombe.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.ma=
rkfrancombe.com</a><br style=3D"color: rgb(51=2C 0=2C 51)=3B"><a style=3D"c=
olor: rgb(51=2C 0=2C 51)=3B" href=3D"http://www.ordoabkhao.com/" target=3D"=
_blank">www.ordoabkhao.com</a><br style=3D"color: rgb(51=2C 0=2C 51)=3B"><a=
 style=3D"color: rgb(51=2C 0=2C 51)=3B" href=3D"http://vimeo.com/user825094=
" target=3D"_blank">http://vimeo.com/user825094</a><br style=3D"color: rgb(=
51=2C 0=2C 51)=3B"><a style=3D"color: rgb(51=2C 0=2C 51)=3B" href=3D"http:/=
/www.looop.no/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.looop.no</a><br>twitter @markf=
rancombe<br><a href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662%40N00/" target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/</a><br></font></div>=
</div></div></div></div> 		 	   		  </div></body>
</html>=

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Subject: Re: QUIT
References: <CADRydNraLjvrUa9UA=4276v7P7JAfqJayQjMEMB9uHYK-DCaow@mail.gmail.com> <50F15940.50105@googlemail.com> <F3D4165669D54FE9894CC9E60D0BCC03@DavidAukerPC> <1AB644A6-F0F1-4683-A16C-1E86A4B89CA4@frontier.com> <CAJKe7obvA4dOkUQ06gpgEwZ_Di3r11T3Q5TdrnC9LXZn91SCqQ@mail.gmail.com> <B7414090E4584AE9B527A3C3188F2017@DavidAukerPC> <SNT127-W3533DD4EB705E948B0B670EE2F0@phx.gbl>
From: Todd Reynolds <toddreyn@gmail.com>
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First rule about QUIT club - DON'T  TALK about QUIT club.=20

Or call me at 917.576.6166 (or text)

On Jan 13, 2013, at 12:19 PM, kelly maxwell <apacheci5@hotmail.com> wrote:

> there is only one waty to leave group therapy.....DROP TROU!!!!!!!!!!!
> =20
> From: davauk@hevanet.com
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Subject: Re: QUIT
> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 17:50:25 -0800
>=20
> Aw, guess I=E2=80=99d miss the mail, not that I even read most of it (does=
 anyone?)
> =20
> From: mark francombe
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:59 PM
> To: loopers-delight
> Subject: Re: QUIT
> =20
> Awww Jeff, dont be sarky to the poor quitter... he did say thanks...
> =20
> The thing is David, you can't quit... you are stuck with unfeasible amount=
s of mail forever, we all hate looping really, just we put up with it rather=
 than st pressing the delete button 30 times a day...
> =20
> Or you can go to the Loopers Delight website and read how to do it.. but n=
one of us can understand that...
> =20
> Good luck!
> =20
> M
>=20
>=20
> On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 4:55 PM, Jeff Shirkey <jcshirke@frontier.com> wrot=
e:
> I hereby quit you.
>=20
> On Jan 12, 2013, at 9:47 AM, David Auker wrote:
>=20
> Please quit me--thanks!
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> =20
> --=20
> Mark Francombe
> www.markfrancombe.com
> www.ordoabkhao.com
> http://vimeo.com/user825094
> http://www.looop.no
> twitter @markfrancombe
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/

--Apple-Mail-CF426FCD-E930-442F-959F-968DB40E95CF
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<html><head></head><body bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><div>First rule about QUIT club=
 - DON'T &nbsp;TALK about QUIT club.&nbsp;<br><br>Or call me at 917.576.6166=
 (or text)</div><div><br>On Jan 13, 2013, at 12:19 PM, kelly maxwell &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:apacheci5@hotmail.com">apacheci5@hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br=
><br></div><div></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>

<style><!--
.hmmessage P
{
margin:0px;
padding:0px
}
body.hmmessage
{
font-size: 10pt;
font-family:Tahoma
}
--></style>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
there is only&nbsp;one waty to leave group therapy.....DROP TROU!!!!!!!!!!!<=
br>&nbsp;<br><div><hr id=3D"stopSpelling">From: <a href=3D"mailto:davauk@hev=
anet.com">davauk@hevanet.com</a><br>To: <a href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@lo=
opers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com</a><br>Subject: Re: Q=
UIT<br>Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 17:50:25 -0800<br><br>

<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;; font-si=
ze: 12pt;">
<div>Aw, guess I=E2=80=99d miss the mail, not that I even read most of it (d=
oes anyone?)=20
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;; font-si=
ze: small; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; text-decoration: none; d=
isplay: inline;">
<div style=3D"font: 10pt/normal tahoma; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch=
: normal;">
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"background: rgb(245, 245, 245);">
<div style=3D"font-color: black;"><b>From:</b> <a title=3D"mark@markfrancomb=
e.com" href=3D"mailto:mark@markfrancombe.com">mark francombe</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:59 PM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title=3D"Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" href=3D"mai=
lto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">loopers-delight</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: QUIT</div></div></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div></div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: &quot;Calibri&quot;; font-si=
ze: small; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; text-decoration: none; d=
isplay: inline;">
<div dir=3D"ltr">Awww Jeff, dont be sarky to the poor quitter... he did say=20=

thanks...=20
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>The thing is David, you can't quit... you are stuck with unfeasible amo=
unts=20
of mail forever, we all hate looping really, just we put up with it rather t=
han=20
st pressing the delete button 30 times a day...</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Or you can go to the Loopers Delight website and read how to do it.. bu=
t=20
none of us can understand that...</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Good luck!</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>M</div></div>
<div class=3D"ecxgmail_extra"><br><br>
<div class=3D"ecxgmail_quote">On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 4:55 PM, Jeff Shirkey <=
span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jcshirke@frontier.com">jcshirke@front=
ier.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204=
); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;" class=3D"ecxgmail_quot=
e">I hereby quit you.<br><br>On Jan 12, 2013, at 9:47 AM, David=20
  Auker wrote:<br><br>
  <blockquote style=3D"padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 2=
04); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;" class=3D"ecxgmail_qu=
ote">Please quit=20
me--thanks!<br><br></blockquote><br></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"=
>
<div>&nbsp;</div>-- <br><i style=3D"color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: v=
erdana,sans-serif; background-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><font style=3D"font-fami=
ly: trebuchet ms,sans-serif;" size=3D"4"><u>Mark=20
Francombe</u></font></i><br><font size=3D"1"><a style=3D"color: rgb(51, 0, 5=
1);" href=3D"http://www.markfrancombe.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.markfranco=
mbe.com</a><br style=3D"color: rgb(51, 0, 51);"><a style=3D"color: rgb(51, 0=
, 51);" href=3D"http://www.ordoabkhao.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.ordoabkhao=
.com</a><br style=3D"color: rgb(51, 0, 51);"><a style=3D"color: rgb(51, 0, 5=
1);" href=3D"http://vimeo.com/user825094" target=3D"_blank">http://vimeo.com=
/user825094</a><br style=3D"color: rgb(51, 0, 51);"><a style=3D"color: rgb(5=
1, 0, 51);" href=3D"http://www.looop.no/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.looop=
.no</a><br>twitter @markfrancombe<br><a href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/photos=
/24478662%40N00/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N0=
0/</a><br></font></div></div></div></div></div> 		 	   =
		  </div>
</div></blockquote></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-CF426FCD-E930-442F-959F-968DB40E95CF--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jan 13 17:59:45 2013
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References: <CADRydNraLjvrUa9UA=4276v7P7JAfqJayQjMEMB9uHYK-DCaow@mail.gmail.com>
 <50F15940.50105@googlemail.com> <F3D4165669D54FE9894CC9E60D0BCC03@DavidAukerPC>
 <1AB644A6-F0F1-4683-A16C-1E86A4B89CA4@frontier.com> <CAJKe7obvA4dOkUQ06gpgEwZ_Di3r11T3Q5TdrnC9LXZn91SCqQ@mail.gmail.com>
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 <698A7F76-3F7B-4B66-BF99-A067920EAB40@gmail.com>
From: Steven Clements <sdclements@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 10:59:03 -0700
Message-ID: <CALiEdeF75fwGb7grDvSkfaZTBKw1gBmt9ONQpvtHozUPEd-Whg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: QUIT
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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--e0cb4efe315e1f3b0e04d32f4bd3
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LOL

y'all are goofs
I love it

I can add nothing but a chuckle

On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Todd Reynolds <toddreyn@gmail.com> wrote:

> First rule about QUIT club - DON'T  TALK about QUIT club.
>
> Or call me at 917.576.6166 (or text)
>
> On Jan 13, 2013, at 12:19 PM, kelly maxwell <apacheci5@hotmail.com> wrote=
:
>
>  there is only one waty to leave group therapy.....DROP TROU!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> ------------------------------
> From: davauk@hevanet.com
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Subject: Re: QUIT
> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 17:50:25 -0800
>
>  Aw, guess I=E2=80=99d miss the mail, not that I even read most of it (do=
es
> anyone?)
>
>  *From:* mark francombe <mark@markfrancombe.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:59 PM
> *To:* loopers-delight <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> *Subject:* Re: QUIT
>
>  Awww Jeff, dont be sarky to the poor quitter... he did say thanks...
>
> The thing is David, you can't quit... you are stuck with unfeasible
> amounts of mail forever, we all hate looping really, just we put up with =
it
> rather than st pressing the delete button 30 times a day...
>
> Or you can go to the Loopers Delight website and read how to do it.. but
> none of us can understand that...
>
> Good luck!
>
> M
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 4:55 PM, Jeff Shirkey <jcshirke@frontier.com>wrot=
e:
>
> I hereby quit you.
>
> On Jan 12, 2013, at 9:47 AM, David Auker wrote:
>
> Please quit me--thanks!
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> *Mark Francombe*
> www.markfrancombe.com
> www.ordoabkhao.com
> http://vimeo.com/user825094
> http://www.looop.no
> twitter @markfrancombe
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/
>
>

--e0cb4efe315e1f3b0e04d32f4bd3
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

LOL<br><br>y&#39;all are goofs<br>I love it<br><br>I can add nothing but a =
chuckle<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 10:26 AM,=
 Todd Reynolds <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:toddreyn@gmail.com" =
target=3D"_blank">toddreyn@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><div>First rule abo=
ut QUIT club - DON&#39;T =C2=A0TALK about QUIT club.=C2=A0<br><br>Or call m=
e at <a href=3D"tel:917.576.6166" value=3D"+19175766166" target=3D"_blank">=
917.576.6166</a> (or text)</div>

<div><div class=3D"h5"><div><br>On Jan 13, 2013, at 12:19 PM, kelly maxwell=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:apacheci5@hotmail.com" target=3D"_blank">apacheci5@h=
otmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"=
><div>




<div dir=3D"ltr">
there is only=C2=A0one waty to leave group therapy.....DROP TROU!!!!!!!!!!!=
<br>=C2=A0<br><div><hr>From: <a href=3D"mailto:davauk@hevanet.com" target=
=3D"_blank">davauk@hevanet.com</a><br>To: <a href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight=
@loopers-delight.com" target=3D"_blank">Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=
</a><br>

Subject: Re: QUIT<br>Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 17:50:25 -0800<br><br>

<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;">
<div>Aw, guess I=E2=80=99d miss the mail, not that I even read most of it (=
does anyone?)=20
</div>
<div style=3D"font-style:normal;font-size:small;display:inline;text-decorat=
ion:none;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;;font-weight:normal">
<div style=3D"font:10pt/normal tahoma;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:no=
rmal">
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"background:rgb(245,245,245)">
<div><b>From:</b> <a title=3D"mark@markfrancombe.com" href=3D"mailto:mark@m=
arkfrancombe.com" target=3D"_blank">mark francombe</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:59 PM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title=3D"Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" href=3D"ma=
ilto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" target=3D"_blank">loopers-delight=
</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: QUIT</div></div></div>
<div>=C2=A0</div></div>
<div style=3D"font-style:normal;font-size:small;display:inline;text-decorat=
ion:none;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;;font-weight:normal">
<div dir=3D"ltr">Awww Jeff, dont be sarky to the poor quitter... he did say=
=20
thanks...=20
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>The thing is David, you can&#39;t quit... you are stuck with unfeasibl=
e amounts=20
of mail forever, we all hate looping really, just we put up with it rather =
than=20
st pressing the delete button 30 times a day...</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>Or you can go to the Loopers Delight website and read how to do it.. b=
ut=20
none of us can understand that...</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>Good luck!</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>M</div></div>
<div><br><br>
<div>On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 4:55 PM, Jeff Shirkey <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:jcshirke@frontier.com" target=3D"_blank">jcshirke@frontier.=
com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);bo=
rder-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">I hereby quit you.<br><br>On J=
an 12, 2013, at 9:47 AM, David=20
  Auker wrote:<br><br>
  <blockquote style=3D"padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);=
border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">Please quit=20
me--thanks!<br><br></blockquote><br></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all=
">
<div>=C2=A0</div>-- <br><i style=3D"color:rgb(255,255,255);font-family:verd=
ana,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font style=3D"font-family:treb=
uchet ms,sans-serif" size=3D"4"><u>Mark=20
Francombe</u></font></i><br><font size=3D"1"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)=
" href=3D"http://www.markfrancombe.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.markfrancomb=
e.com</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" h=
ref=3D"http://www.ordoabkhao.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.ordoabkhao.com</a>=
<br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)">

<a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://vimeo.com/user825094" target=
=3D"_blank">http://vimeo.com/user825094</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)"=
><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.looop.no/" target=3D"_b=
lank">http://www.looop.no</a><br>

twitter @markfrancombe<br><a href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662%=
40N00/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/</a><br=
></font></div></div></div></div></div> 		 	   		  </div>
</div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br>

--e0cb4efe315e1f3b0e04d32f4bd3--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jan 14 00:38:22 2013
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Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 16:38:20 -0800 (PST)
From: bill bigrig <billbigrig@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: bill bigrig <billbigrig@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: question re: hardware samplers?
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--856753768-1568914149-1358123900=:25256
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OK. My question would be, how is an Akai S-5000 sampler withUSB is any adva=
ntage? I have the Mellotron set from Audities, and don't need to "buy" a VU=
 thing. Also, being USB, can I use it in my Mac system and forget the SCSI =
after loading the mellotron samples and storing them in the computer? I bou=
ght it in the early 21st century before computers got as powerful as the no=
w are. Is this sampler completely disposable, or will it give me functions =
that I don't have using garage Band?=0ARig=0A=0A___________________________=
_____=0A From: Rainer Straschill <moinsound@googlemail.com>=0ATo: Loopers-D=
elight@loopers-delight.com =0ASent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 4:38 AM=0ASu=
bject: Re: question re: hardware samplers?=0A =0AThis topic is somewhat dat=
ed, so I'll just add my proverbial .02 to it - sorry if it has already been=
 covered:=0AOne of the things with the hardware samplers of old is getting =
stuff stored/restored. Typcially, it's oldskool parallel/single-ended SCSI,=
 and nobody uses that anymore, and any media you get for that (e.g. harddis=
ks) are old, slow, big package, small capacity and loud. However, there's w=
orkarounds for that.=0A=0AAs for the use as an instrument (as for capturing=
 instrument sounds and playing them in a tuned fashion), there really isn't=
 any reason to work on a hardware solution today. If someone still uses a h=
ardware sampler, it's=0A=A0  a) capturing loops on the fly (aka the DJ appl=
ication - see Akai MPC etc.)=0A=A0  b) samplers which can do funny other th=
ings in realtime (aka the oddness of Thomas DiMuzio and his Kurz)=0A=0AAs f=
or b), list member Matt Davignon did a three-part interview on youtube with=
 artist (and Y2kloopfest performer) Thomas DiMuzio:=0Ahttp://www.youtube.co=
m/watch?v=3Dz6SSlv-1Zew=0AHe uses a Kurzweil K2600RS, which has a feature c=
alled "live sampling" where you can play your samples while they are played=
 - without going into too many details, just watch those videos, and you'll=
 get the hang of it.=0A=0AAre there other things (hw or sw) which do that w=
hat the Kurzweil does, btw?=0A=0AThe Kurz is, as mentioned above, using old=
skool SCSI for storage. If you really must use one (like me), a good approa=
ch is to use a SCSI-connected card reader, which allows you to design your =
sample sets on the computer, then copy them to an e.g. SD card and quickly =
transfer them to the Kurz - an approach which should work with other hw sam=
plers as well.=0A=0AYours,=0A=0A=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0  Rainer=0A=0AScott Hansen s=
chrieb:=0A> does anyone (DJs?) still use hardware samplers anymore? or has =
everything gone to computer software?=0A> i was just curious.=0A> seems lik=
e all i ever see anymore in DJ pics is computers w/ a small mixer....but ma=
ybe i'm not looking close enough!=0A=0A=0A-- http://moinlabs.de=0AFollow me=
 on twitter: http://twitter.com/moinlabs
--856753768-1568914149-1358123900=:25256
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:ti=
mes new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>OK. My que=
stion would be, how is an Akai S-5000 sampler withUSB is any advantage? I h=
ave the Mellotron set from Audities, and don't need to "buy" a VU thing. Al=
so, being USB, can I use it in my Mac system and forget the SCSI after load=
ing the mellotron samples and storing them in the computer? I bought it in =
the early 21st century before computers got as powerful as the now are. Is =
this sampler completely disposable, or will it give me functions that I don=
't have using garage Band?</span></div><div>Rig</div>  <div style=3D"font-s=
ize: 12pt; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; "> <di=
v style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', tim=
es, serif; "> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"> <hr size=
=3D"1">  <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Rainer Stras=
chill
 &lt;moinsound@googlemail.com&gt;<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;"=
>To:</span></b> Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com <br> <b><span style=3D"=
font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Saturday, January 12, 2013 4:38 AM<br>=
 <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: question re:=
 hardware samplers?<br> </font> </div> <br>=0AThis topic is somewhat dated,=
 so I'll just add my proverbial .02 to it - sorry if it has already been co=
vered:<br>One of the things with the hardware samplers of old is getting st=
uff stored/restored. Typcially, it's oldskool parallel/single-ended SCSI, a=
nd nobody uses that anymore, and any media you get for that (e.g. harddisks=
) are old, slow, big package, small capacity and loud. However, there's wor=
karounds for that.<br><br>As for the use as an instrument (as for capturing=
 instrument sounds and playing them in a tuned fashion), there really isn't=
 any reason to work on a hardware solution today. If someone still uses a h=
ardware sampler, it's<br>&nbsp;  a) capturing loops on the fly (aka the DJ =
application - see Akai MPC etc.)<br>&nbsp;  b) samplers which can do funny =
other things in realtime (aka the oddness of Thomas DiMuzio and his Kurz)<b=
r><br>As for b), list member Matt Davignon did a three-part interview on yo=
utube with artist (and Y2kloopfest
 performer) Thomas DiMuzio:<br>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dz6SSlv-1Zew=
<br>He uses a Kurzweil K2600RS, which has a feature called "live sampling" =
where you can play your samples while they are played - without going into =
too many details, just watch those videos, and you'll get the hang of it.<b=
r><br>Are there other things (hw or sw) which do that what the Kurzweil doe=
s, btw?<br><br>The Kurz is, as mentioned above, using oldskool SCSI for sto=
rage. If you really must use one (like me), a good approach is to use a SCS=
I-connected card reader, which allows you to design your sample sets on the=
 computer, then copy them to an e.g. SD card and quickly transfer them to t=
he Kurz - an approach which should work with other hw samplers as well.<br>=
<br>Yours,<br><br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;  Rainer<br><br>Scott Hansen s=
chrieb:<br>&gt; does anyone (DJs?) still use hardware samplers anymore? or =
has everything gone to computer software?<br>&gt; i was just
 curious.<br>&gt; seems like all i ever see anymore in DJ pics is computers=
 w/ a small mixer....but maybe i'm not looking close enough!<br><br><br>-- =
http://moinlabs.de<br>Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/moinlabs<br>=
<br><br><br> </div> </div>  </div></body></html>
--856753768-1568914149-1358123900=:25256--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jan 14 08:48:26 2013
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Subject: Re: Music Notation symbols for loops?
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Hi Rainer

thank you for your input.
I find your emphasis on conductor vs performer useful.

My intention was actually not live looping notation - but since you brought up the topic:
I think for a performer, I would notate the record/overdubs continuously, using Grace Notes to display the previously recorded material on the loop.
You can seperate each repetition with double bar lines and mark them with a header as "Record Loop1", "Overdub 1" etc.

best regards
Buzap

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jan 14 14:31:39 2013
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From: "Buzap Buzap" <buzap@gmx.net>
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Subject: re: new tc electronic looper (Ditto Looper)
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Hi guys

here is the webpage for the TC Electronic "Ditto Looper":
http://www.tcelectronic.com/ditto-looper/

Best features:
- Real feedback knob!
- 130EUR
- True bypass.

While it may confirm all guitar player stereotypes, essentially it's pretty much a Boss RC-2 with Feedback.
So, for all you loopers moaning that the off-the-shelf loopers don't have feedback - there you go.

For 130EUR/$, I'm seriously considering. If the Ditto Looper really has true bypass and pristine sound, this might be much better on the pedalboard than a mushy RC2 in the chain.

best regards
Buzap

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jan 14 15:03:13 2013
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From: Mark Hamburg <mark@grubmah.com>
Subject: Re: new tc electronic looper (Ditto Looper)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 07:03:11 -0800
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Feedback? I thought the knob controlled loop volume.

Mark

On Jan 14, 2013, at 6:31 AM, "Buzap Buzap" <buzap@gmx.net> wrote:

> Hi guys
>=20
> here is the webpage for the TC Electronic "Ditto Looper":
> http://www.tcelectronic.com/ditto-looper/
>=20
> Best features:
> - Real feedback knob!
> - 130EUR
> - True bypass.
>=20
> While it may confirm all guitar player stereotypes, essentially it's prett=
y much a Boss RC-2 with Feedback.
> So, for all you loopers moaning that the off-the-shelf loopers don't have f=
eedback - there you go.
>=20
> For 130EUR/$, I'm seriously considering. If the Ditto Looper really has tr=
ue bypass and pristine sound, this might be much better on the pedalboard th=
an a mushy RC2 in the chain.
>=20
> best regards
> Buzap
>=20
>=20

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jan 14 15:28:16 2013
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Subject: Re: new tc electronic looper (Ditto Looper)
From: Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com>
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But Loop Volume will become Feedback if fed back into itself...

Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.perboysen.com
http://www.youtube.com/perboysen


On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 4:03 PM, Mark Hamburg <mark@grubmah.com> wrote:
> Feedback? I thought the knob controlled loop volume.
>
> Mark
>
> On Jan 14, 2013, at 6:31 AM, "Buzap Buzap" <buzap@gmx.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi guys
>>
>> here is the webpage for the TC Electronic "Ditto Looper":
>> http://www.tcelectronic.com/ditto-looper/
>>
>> Best features:
>> - Real feedback knob!
>> - 130EUR
>> - True bypass.
>>
>> While it may confirm all guitar player stereotypes, essentially it's pretty much a Boss RC-2 with Feedback.
>> So, for all you loopers moaning that the off-the-shelf loopers don't have feedback - there you go.
>>
>> For 130EUR/$, I'm seriously considering. If the Ditto Looper really has true bypass and pristine sound, this might be much better on the pedalboard than a mushy RC2 in the chain.
>>
>> best regards
>> Buzap
>>
>>
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Per Boysen wrote:
> But Loop Volume will become Feedback if fed back into itself...


emphasis on IF.


andy

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jan 14 16:47:26 2013
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> > But Loop Volume will become Feedback if fed back into itself...
> emphasis on IF.

You might be right... :-(
Probably there is no REAL Feedback because TC Electronic has "trimmed away all the non-essential, mood-killing tech hoopla"...

Oh well...
Buzap

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jan 14 18:08:56 2013
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Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 10:08:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul Richards <paulrichard_rocks@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: new tc electronic looper (Ditto Looper)
To: "Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>,
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I wonder how many loopers or guitarists don't give a rat's ass about feedback. 


Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android


---1131079492-190622636-1358186934=:9172
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;"><p>I wonder how many loopers or guitarists don't give a rat's ass about feedback. <br><br><br></p>
<p>Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android</p>
</td></tr></table>            <div id="_origMsg_">
                <div style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif:font-size:10pt">
                    <br />
                    <div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt">
                        <font size="2" face="Tahoma">
                            <hr size="1">
                            <b>
                                <span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span>
                            </b>
                            Buzap Buzap &lt;buzap@gmx.net&gt;;                            <br>
                            <b>
                                <span style="font-weight:bold:">To:</span>
                            </b>
                             &lt;Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com&gt;;                                                                                                     <br>
                            <b>
                                <span style="font-weight:bold:">Subject:</span>
                            </b>
                            Re: new tc electronic looper (Ditto Looper)                            <br>
                            <b>
                                <span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span>
                            </b>
                            Mon, Jan 14, 2013 4:47:23 PM                            <br>
                            </font>
                            <br>
                            <table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0">
                                <tbody>
                                    <tr>
                                        <td valign="top" style="font:inherit;">&gt; &gt; But Loop Volume will become Feedback if fed back into itself...<BR>&gt; emphasis on IF.<BR><BR>You might be right... :-(<BR>Probably there is no REAL Feedback because TC Electronic has "trimmed away all the non-essential, mood-killing tech hoopla"...<BR><BR>Oh well...<BR>Buzap<BR><BR></td>
                                    </tr>
                                </tbody>
                            </table>
                    </div>
                </div>
            </div>

---1131079492-190622636-1358186934=:9172--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jan 14 18:25:18 2013
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Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 10:25:17 -0800
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Subject: Re: new tc electronic looper (Ditto Looper)
From: Kevin Cheli-Colando <billowhead@gmail.com>
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Apparently all the stupid ones who seem to be complaining to these
companies "the pedals are too complicated for a feeble guitarist like
myself".  How many stomp ads now make it a virtue of head simple there
pedals are (won't challenge anyone to think more than how to step on a
switch and maybe turn a knob)?

Complexity is where its at.

Kevin

On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 10:08 AM, Paul Richards <paulrichard_rocks@yahoo.com
> wrote:

> I wonder how many loopers or guitarists don't give a rat's ass about
> feedback.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
>
>  ------------------------------
> * From: * Buzap Buzap <buzap@gmx.net>;
> * To: * <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>;
> * Subject: * Re: new tc electronic looper (Ditto Looper)
> * Sent: * Mon, Jan 14, 2013 4:47:23 PM
>
>   > > But Loop Volume will become Feedback if fed back into itself...
> > emphasis on IF.
>
> You might be right... :-(
> Probably there is no REAL Feedback because TC Electronic has "trimmed away
> all the non-essential, mood-killing tech hoopla"...
>
> Oh well...
> Buzap
>
>


-- 
Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and to have a
form. That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all trouble.

- Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)

--e89a8fb206e45ee82604d343c42a
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Apparently=A0all the stupid ones who seem to be complaining to these compan=
ies &quot;the pedals are too=A0complicated=A0for a feeble guitarist like my=
self&quot;. =A0How many stomp ads now make it a virtue of head simple there=
 pedals are (won&#39;t challenge anyone to think more than how to step on a=
 switch and maybe turn a knob)?<div>
<br></div><div>Complexity is where its at.</div><div><br></div><div>Kevin<b=
r><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 10:08 AM, Paul Ric=
hards <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:paulrichard_rocks@yahoo.com" =
target=3D"_blank">paulrichard_rocks@yahoo.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" b=
order=3D"0"><tbody><tr><td valign=3D"top" style=3D"font:inherit"><p>I wonde=
r how many loopers or guitarists don&#39;t give a rat&#39;s ass about feedb=
ack. <br>
<br><br></p>
<p>Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android</p>
</td></tr></tbody></table>            <div>
                <div>
                    <br>
                    <div style=3D"font-family:times new roman,new york,time=
s,serif;font-size:12pt">
                        <font face=3D"Tahoma">
                            <hr size=3D"1">
                            <b>
                                <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From:</spa=
n>
                            </b>
                            Buzap Buzap &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:buzap@gmx.net=
" target=3D"_blank">buzap@gmx.net</a>&gt;;                            <br>
                            <b>
                                <span>To:</span>
                            </b>
                             &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-=
delight.com" target=3D"_blank">Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com</a>&gt;;=
                                                                           =
                          <br>

                            <b>
                                <span>Subject:</span>
                            </b>
                            Re: new tc electronic looper (Ditto Looper)    =
                        <br>
                            <b>
                                <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Sent:</spa=
n>
                            </b>
                            Mon, Jan 14, 2013 4:47:23 PM                   =
         <br>
                            </font><div><div class=3D"h5">
                            <br>
                            <table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" bord=
er=3D"0">
                                <tbody>
                                    <tr>
                                        <td valign=3D"top" style=3D"font:in=
herit">&gt; &gt; But Loop Volume will become Feedback if fed back into itse=
lf...<br>&gt; emphasis on IF.<br><br>You might be right... :-(<br>Probably =
there is no REAL Feedback because TC Electronic has &quot;trimmed away all =
the non-essential, mood-killing tech hoopla&quot;...<br>
<br>Oh well...<br>Buzap<br><br></td>
                                    </tr>
                                </tbody>
                            </table>
                    </div></div></div>
                </div>
            </div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br>Till now you=
 seriously considered yourself to be the body and to have a<br>form. That i=
s the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all trouble.<br><br>- Ram=
ana Maharshi (1879-1950)<br>
<br>
</div>

--e89a8fb206e45ee82604d343c42a--

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Subject: Re: new tc electronic looper (Ditto Looper)
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"Complexity is where its at."

Unless it's not needed.

T

On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 10:25 AM, Kevin Cheli-Colando
<billowhead@gmail.com>wrote:

> Apparently all the stupid ones who seem to be complaining to these
> companies "the pedals are too complicated for a feeble guitarist like
> myself".  How many stomp ads now make it a virtue of head simple there
> pedals are (won't challenge anyone to think more than how to step on a
> switch and maybe turn a knob)?
>
> Complexity is where its at.
>
> Kevin
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 10:08 AM, Paul Richards <
> paulrichard_rocks@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> I wonder how many loopers or guitarists don't give a rat's ass about
>> feedback.
>>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
>>
>>  ------------------------------
>> * From: * Buzap Buzap <buzap@gmx.net>;
>> * To: * <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>;
>> * Subject: * Re: new tc electronic looper (Ditto Looper)
>> * Sent: * Mon, Jan 14, 2013 4:47:23 PM
>>
>>   > > But Loop Volume will become Feedback if fed back into itself...
>> > emphasis on IF.
>>
>> You might be right... :-(
>> Probably there is no REAL Feedback because TC Electronic has "trimmed
>> away all the non-essential, mood-killing tech hoopla"...
>>
>> Oh well...
>> Buzap
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and to have a
> form. That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all trouble.
>
> - Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)
>
>


-- 
http://toaster.bandcamp.com

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&quot;Complexity is where its at.&quot;<div><br></div><div>Unless it&#39;s =
not needed.=A0</div><div><br></div><div>T<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"=
>On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 10:25 AM, Kevin Cheli-Colando <span dir=3D"ltr">&l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:billowhead@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">billowhead@gmai=
l.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Apparently=A0all the stupid ones who seem to=
 be complaining to these companies &quot;the pedals are too=A0complicated=
=A0for a feeble guitarist like myself&quot;. =A0How many stomp ads now make=
 it a virtue of head simple there pedals are (won&#39;t challenge anyone to=
 think more than how to step on a switch and maybe turn a knob)?<div>

<br></div><div>Complexity is where its at.</div><div><br></div><div>Kevin<d=
iv><div class=3D"h5"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 14, 201=
3 at 10:08 AM, Paul Richards <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:paulri=
chard_rocks@yahoo.com" target=3D"_blank">paulrichard_rocks@yahoo.com</a>&gt=
;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" b=
order=3D"0"><tbody><tr><td valign=3D"top" style=3D"font:inherit"><p>I wonde=
r how many loopers or guitarists don&#39;t give a rat&#39;s ass about feedb=
ack. <br>

<br><br></p>
<p>Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android</p>
</td></tr></tbody></table>            <div>
                <div>
                    <br>
                    <div style=3D"font-family:times new roman,new york,time=
s,serif;font-size:12pt">
                        <font face=3D"Tahoma">
                            <hr size=3D"1">
                            <b>
                                <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From:</spa=
n>
                            </b>
                            Buzap Buzap &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:buzap@gmx.net=
" target=3D"_blank">buzap@gmx.net</a>&gt;;                            <br>
                            <b>
                                <span>To:</span>
                            </b>
                             &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-=
delight.com" target=3D"_blank">Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com</a>&gt;;=
                                                                           =
                          <br>


                            <b>
                                <span>Subject:</span>
                            </b>
                            Re: new tc electronic looper (Ditto Looper)    =
                        <br>
                            <b>
                                <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Sent:</spa=
n>
                            </b>
                            Mon, Jan 14, 2013 4:47:23 PM                   =
         <br>
                            </font><div><div>
                            <br>
                            <table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" bord=
er=3D"0">
                                <tbody>
                                    <tr>
                                        <td valign=3D"top" style=3D"font:in=
herit">&gt; &gt; But Loop Volume will become Feedback if fed back into itse=
lf...<br>&gt; emphasis on IF.<br><br>You might be right... :-(<br>Probably =
there is no REAL Feedback because TC Electronic has &quot;trimmed away all =
the non-essential, mood-killing tech hoopla&quot;...<br>

<br>Oh well...<br>Buzap<br><br></td>
                                    </tr>
                                </tbody>
                            </table>
                    </div></div></div>
                </div>
            </div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div></div></div><span c=
lass=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">-- <br>Till now you seriously consi=
dered yourself to be the body and to have a<br>form. That is the primal ign=
orance which is the root cause of all trouble.<br>
<br>- Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)<br>
<br>
</font></span></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><a href=3D"h=
ttp://toaster.bandcamp.com" target=3D"_blank">http://toaster.bandcamp.com</=
a>
</div>

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Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 19:49:18 +0100
From: Rainer Thelonius Balthasar Straschill <moinsound@googlemail.com>
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mhmm, don't get it:

if you have a loop running and press twice, you stop.
Does this work in all states, play, overdub and record? If in overdub, 
where will it have ended overdub? If in record, will it close the loop?

What happens if I do a single press when in stop? Will I enter play? If 
that is the case, and I do a double press in stop, will it stop again or 
take me to overdub?

How does that undo/redo work? Can I undo "erase loop"?


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On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 10:25 AM, Kevin Cheli-Colando
<billowhead@gmail.com>wrote:

> How many stomp ads now make it a virtue of head simple there pedals are
> (won't challenge anyone to think more than how to step on a switch and
> maybe turn a knob)?


In rereading that I have to confess, I have no idea what head simple
actually means (or how that sentence got so mangled).  I think I'd like to
try something that is head simple actually.


> Complexity is where its at.
>
>
Except when its not.

Kevin
-- 
Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and to have a
form. That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all trouble.

- Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)

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<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 10:25 AM, Kevin =
Cheli-Colando <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:billowhead@gmail.com"=
 target=3D"_blank">billowhead@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc sol=
id;padding-left:1ex">
How many stomp ads now make it a virtue of head simple there pedals are (wo=
n&#39;t challenge anyone to think more than how to step on a switch and may=
be turn a knob)?</blockquote><div><br></div><div>In rereading that I have t=
o confess, I have no idea what head simple actually means (or how that sent=
ence got so mangled). =A0I think I&#39;d like to try something that is head=
 simple actually.</div>
<div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex=
;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>
<br></div><div>Complexity is where its at.</div><div><br></div></blockquote=
><div><br></div><div>Except when its not.</div><div><br></div><div>Kevin</d=
iv><div>--=A0</div></div>Till now you seriously considered yourself to be t=
he body and to have a<br>
form. That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all trouble.<=
br><br>- Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)<br><br>

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Subject: Re: new tc electronic looper (Ditto Looper)
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>From the page: "You press once to record, press once again to play the
loop. Press once to add another layer of sounds (something you can keep
repeating until you run out of ideas). You press and hold to Undo a layer
and press and hold again to Redo. Press twice to stop, after which you can
press and hold to clear the loop. Ah, if only life were this simple."

Jeff

On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 1:49 PM, Rainer Thelonius Balthasar Straschill <
moinsound@googlemail.com> wrote:

> mhmm, don't get it:
>
> if you have a loop running and press twice, you stop.
> Does this work in all states, play, overdub and record? If in overdub,
> where will it have ended overdub? If in record, will it close the loop?
>
> What happens if I do a single press when in stop? Will I enter play? If
> that is the case, and I do a double press in stop, will it stop again or
> take me to overdub?
>
> How does that undo/redo work? Can I undo "erase loop"?
>
>
>

--20cf300512fe238b5004d345059c
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>From the page: &quot;You press once to record, press once again to play the=
 loop. Press
once to add another layer of sounds (something you can keep
repeating until you run out of ideas). You press and hold to Undo a
layer and press and hold again to Redo. Press twice to stop, after
which you can press and hold to clear the loop. Ah, if only life
were this simple.&quot; <br><br>Jeff<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On M=
on, Jan 14, 2013 at 1:49 PM, Rainer Thelonius Balthasar Straschill <span di=
r=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:moinsound@googlemail.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>moinsound@googlemail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">mhmm, don&#39;t get it:<br>
<br>
if you have a loop running and press twice, you stop.<br>
Does this work in all states, play, overdub and record? If in overdub, wher=
e will it have ended overdub? If in record, will it close the loop?<br>
<br>
What happens if I do a single press when in stop? Will I enter play? If tha=
t is the case, and I do a double press in stop, will it stop again or take =
me to overdub?<br>
<br>
How does that undo/redo work? Can I undo &quot;erase loop&quot;?<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br>

--20cf300512fe238b5004d345059c--

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Rainer Thelonius Balthasar Straschill wrote:
> mhmm, don't get it:

Can we offer a prize for the first guitarist to say it's too complicated?




andy

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From: "Buzap Buzap" <buzap@gmx.net>
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Subject: Re: new tc electronic looper (Ditto Looper)
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> mhmm, don't get it:
> if you have a loop running and press twice, you stop.
> Does this work in all states, play, overdub and record? If in overdub, 
> where will it have ended overdub? If in record, will it close the loop? 
> What happens if I do a single press when in stop? Will I enter play? If 
> that is the case, and I do a double press in stop, will it stop again or 
> take me to overdub?

Most probably, it will work like the RC-2:
- In this case, it's actually useful to have a seperate stop pedal. It's hard & annoying to time the stop point because you have to nail it with your second press.
- Also, I love the accidental stops: You make a very short overdub - and suddenly all the action stops :-)
- I think the "long press undo" probably just works on the last (overdub) layer. Here, it's also quite annoying to try to get the timing right for the long press.

Anyway, I'm sure DittoLooper version 2.0 will just have rec > play ("just what the guitarist needs"!)

Buzap

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Subject: Re: Pigtronix Infinity Looper
From: Tony K <bigtonyk@gmail.com>
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New video demo:

http://www.pigtronix.com/video/pigtronix-infinity-looper-offical-demo-feat-=
eric-krasno

On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 1:15 PM, astralmnemonics@gmail.com
<astralmnemonics@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yeah the Gear Page has some nice back and forth discussion on the Infinit=
y.  I agree about defining loopers as the Infinity seems to be more song ba=
sed while the LP2 (which I chose to purchase) has more of the cool real tim=
e edit features like half/quarter speed, reverse and replace.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Date: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 8:56:44 am
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> From: "Scott Hansen" <evanpeewee@gmail.com>
> Subject: Pigtronix Infinity Looper
>
> you know, i thought the same. my other thought is the definition of
> "looper" needs to be defined.
> i wish loopers had reverse, and pitch/time options...but that's me.
>
>
>
> Thanks for the link, Scott. Wow, all those features and no reverse? I'm
> saving my nickels for an LP-2.
>
> Tim Mungenast
> Editor/Writer/Proofreader: www.linkedin.com/in/timmungenast
> Guitarist/Composer/Vocalist: www.reverbnation.com/timmungenast
>
> --- On *Mon, 11/12/12, Scott Hansen <evanpeewee@gmail.com>* wrote:
>
> From: Scott Hansen <evanpeewee@gmail.com>
> Subject: Pigtronix Infinity Looper
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Date: Monday, November 12, 2012, 10:59 AM
>
> i have no experience w/ them,
> info about it is here:
> http://www.pigtronix.com/products/infinity-looper/
>
> there has been some discussion about it on TheGearPage.net
>
> s---
>
>



--=20
-=3D=3D-=3D-=3D-
Tony

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Subject: Re: Pigtronix Infinity Looper
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--14dae9340f0f98027204d34661dc
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Looks too complicated. How's a guitarist meant to wrap their noodle around
three switches? If only there were a simpler solution...

T

On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Tony K <bigtonyk@gmail.com> wrote:

> New video demo:
>
>
> http://www.pigtronix.com/video/pigtronix-infinity-looper-offical-demo-feat-eric-krasno
>
> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 1:15 PM, astralmnemonics@gmail.com
> <astralmnemonics@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Yeah the Gear Page has some nice back and forth discussion on the
> Infinity.  I agree about defining loopers as the Infinity seems to be more
> song based while the LP2 (which I chose to purchase) has more of the cool
> real time edit features like half/quarter speed, reverse and replace.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > Date: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 8:56:44 am
> > To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> > From: "Scott Hansen" <evanpeewee@gmail.com>
> > Subject: Pigtronix Infinity Looper
> >
> > you know, i thought the same. my other thought is the definition of
> > "looper" needs to be defined.
> > i wish loopers had reverse, and pitch/time options...but that's me.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks for the link, Scott. Wow, all those features and no reverse? I'm
> > saving my nickels for an LP-2.
> >
> > Tim Mungenast
> > Editor/Writer/Proofreader: www.linkedin.com/in/timmungenast
> > Guitarist/Composer/Vocalist: www.reverbnation.com/timmungenast
> >
> > --- On *Mon, 11/12/12, Scott Hansen <evanpeewee@gmail.com>* wrote:
> >
> > From: Scott Hansen <evanpeewee@gmail.com>
> > Subject: Pigtronix Infinity Looper
> > To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> > Date: Monday, November 12, 2012, 10:59 AM
> >
> > i have no experience w/ them,
> > info about it is here:
> > http://www.pigtronix.com/products/infinity-looper/
> >
> > there has been some discussion about it on TheGearPage.net
> >
> > s---
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> -==-=-=-
> Tony
>
>


-- 
http://toaster.bandcamp.com

--14dae9340f0f98027204d34661dc
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Looks too complicated. How&#39;s a guitarist meant to wrap their noodle aro=
und three switches? If only there were a simpler solution...<div><br></div>=
<div>T<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 1:16 PM, T=
ony K <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bigtonyk@gmail.com" target=3D=
"_blank">bigtonyk@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">New video demo:<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.pigtronix.com/video/pigtronix-infinity-looper-offical=
-demo-feat-eric-krasno" target=3D"_blank">http://www.pigtronix.com/video/pi=
gtronix-infinity-looper-offical-demo-feat-eric-krasno</a><br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 1:15 PM, <a href=3D"mailto:astralmnemonics@gmail.co=
m">astralmnemonics@gmail.com</a><br>
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:astralmnemonics@gmail.com">astralmnemonics@gmail.com<=
/a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; Yeah the Gear Page has some nice back and forth discussion on the Infi=
nity. =A0I agree about defining loopers as the Infinity seems to be more so=
ng based while the LP2 (which I chose to purchase) has more of the cool rea=
l time edit features like half/quarter speed, reverse and replace.<br>

&gt;<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; Date: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 8:56:44 am<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Del=
ight@loopers-delight.com</a><br>
&gt; From: &quot;Scott Hansen&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:evanpeewee@gmail.=
com">evanpeewee@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; Subject: Pigtronix Infinity Looper<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; you know, i thought the same. my other thought is the definition of<br=
>
&gt; &quot;looper&quot; needs to be defined.<br>
&gt; i wish loopers had reverse, and pitch/time options...but that&#39;s me=
.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Thanks for the link, Scott. Wow, all those features and no reverse? I&=
#39;m<br>
&gt; saving my nickels for an LP-2.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Tim Mungenast<br>
&gt; Editor/Writer/Proofreader: <a href=3D"http://www.linkedin.com/in/timmu=
ngenast" target=3D"_blank">www.linkedin.com/in/timmungenast</a><br>
&gt; Guitarist/Composer/Vocalist: <a href=3D"http://www.reverbnation.com/ti=
mmungenast" target=3D"_blank">www.reverbnation.com/timmungenast</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; --- On *Mon, 11/12/12, Scott Hansen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:evanpeewee@g=
mail.com">evanpeewee@gmail.com</a>&gt;* wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; From: Scott Hansen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:evanpeewee@gmail.com">evanpee=
wee@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; Subject: Pigtronix Infinity Looper<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Del=
ight@loopers-delight.com</a><br>
&gt; Date: Monday, November 12, 2012, 10:59 AM<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; i have no experience w/ them,<br>
&gt; info about it is here:<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"http://www.pigtronix.com/products/infinity-looper/" target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.pigtronix.com/products/infinity-looper/</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; there has been some discussion about it on TheGearPage.net<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; s---<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</div></div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">--<br>
-=3D=3D-=3D-=3D-<br>
Tony<br>
<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <b=
r><a href=3D"http://toaster.bandcamp.com" target=3D"_blank">http://toaster.=
bandcamp.com</a>
</div>

--14dae9340f0f98027204d34661dc--

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Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 13:47:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul Richards <paulrichard_rocks@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pigtronix Infinity Looper
To: "Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>,
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<table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0"><tr><td valign=3D"t=
op" style=3D"font: inherit;"><p>Ha ha ha ha.<br><br><br></p>=0A<p>Sent from=
 Yahoo! Mail on Android</p>=0A</td></tr></table>            <div id=3D"_ori=
gMsg_">=0A                <div style=3D"font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-=
serif:font-size:10pt">=0A                    <br />=0A                    <=
div style=3D"font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:=
12pt">=0A                        <font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma">=0A      =
                      <hr size=3D"1">=0A                            <b>=0A =
                               <span style=3D"font-weight:bold;">From:</spa=
n>=0A                            </b>=0A                            Todd El=
liott &lt;toddbert@gmail.com&gt;;                            <br>=0A       =
                     <b>=0A                                <span style=3D"f=
ont-weight:bold:">To:</span>=0A                            </b>=0A         =
                    &lt;Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com&gt;;           =
                                                                           =
               <br>=0A                            <b>=0A                   =
             <span style=3D"font-weight:bold:">Subject:</span>=0A          =
                  </b>=0A                            Re: Pigtronix Infinity=
 Looper                            <br>=0A                            <b>=
=0A                                <span style=3D"font-weight:bold;">Sent:<=
/span>=0A                            </b>=0A                            Mon=
, Jan 14, 2013 9:32:25 PM                            <br>=0A               =
             </font>=0A                            <br>=0A                 =
           <table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0">=0A     =
                           <tbody>=0A                                    <t=
r>=0A                                        <td valign=3D"top" style=3D"fo=
nt:inherit;">Looks too complicated. How&#39;s a guitarist meant to wrap the=
ir noodle around three switches? If only there were a simpler solution...<d=
iv><br></div><div>T<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 =
at 1:16 PM, Tony K <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mai=
lto:bigtonyk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"javascript:return">bigton=
yk@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>=0A<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">Ne=
w video demo:<br>=0A<br>=0A<a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"ht=
tp://www.pigtronix.com/video/pigtronix-infinity-looper-offical-demo-feat-er=
ic-krasno">http://www.pigtronix.com/video/pigtronix-infinity-looper-offical=
-demo-feat-eric-krasno</a><br>=0A<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><b=
r>=0AOn Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 1:15 PM, <a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto=
:astralmnemonics@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"javascript:return">as=
tralmnemonics@gmail.com</a><br>=0A&lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto=
:astralmnemonics@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"javascript:return">as=
tralmnemonics@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>=0A&gt; Yeah the Gear Page has so=
me nice back and forth discussion on the Infinity. =A0I agree about definin=
g loopers as the Infinity seems to be more song based while the LP2 (which =
I chose to purchase) has more of the cool real time edit features like half=
/quarter speed, reverse and replace.<br>=0A=0A&gt;<br>=0A&gt; -----Original=
 Message-----<br>=0A&gt; Date: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 8:56:44 am<br>=0A=
&gt; To: <a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-deli=
ght.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"javascript:return">Loopers-Delight@loope=
rs-delight.com</a><br>=0A&gt; From: &quot;Scott Hansen&quot; &lt;<a rel=3D"=
nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:evanpeewee@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D=
"javascript:return">evanpeewee@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>=0A&gt; Subject: Pigtro=
nix Infinity Looper<br>=0A&gt;<br>=0A&gt; you know, i thought the same. my =
other thought is the definition of<br>=0A&gt; &quot;looper&quot; needs to b=
e defined.<br>=0A&gt; i wish loopers had reverse, and pitch/time options...=
but that&#39;s me.<br>=0A&gt;<br>=0A&gt;<br>=0A&gt;<br>=0A&gt; Thanks for t=
he link, Scott. Wow, all those features and no reverse? I&#39;m<br>=0A&gt; =
saving my nickels for an LP-2.<br>=0A&gt;<br>=0A&gt; Tim Mungenast<br>=0A&g=
t; Editor/Writer/Proofreader: <a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D=
"http://www.linkedin.com/in/timmungenast">www.linkedin.com/in/timmungenast<=
/a><br>=0A&gt; Guitarist/Composer/Vocalist: <a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_=
blank" href=3D"http://www.reverbnation.com/timmungenast">www.reverbnation.c=
om/timmungenast</a><br>=0A&gt;<br>=0A&gt; --- On *Mon, 11/12/12, Scott Hans=
en &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:evanpeewee@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank" href=3D"javascript:return">evanpeewee@gmail.com</a>&gt;* wrote:=
<br>=0A&gt;<br>=0A&gt; From: Scott Hansen &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=
=3D"mailto:evanpeewee@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"javascript:retur=
n">evanpeewee@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>=0A&gt; Subject: Pigtronix Infinity Loop=
er<br>=0A&gt; To: <a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loo=
pers-delight.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"javascript:return">Loopers-Deli=
ght@loopers-delight.com</a><br>=0A&gt; Date: Monday, November 12, 2012, 10:=
59 AM<br>=0A&gt;<br>=0A&gt; i have no experience w/ them,<br>=0A&gt; info a=
bout it is here:<br>=0A&gt; <a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"h=
ttp://www.pigtronix.com/products/infinity-looper/">http://www.pigtronix.com=
/products/infinity-looper/</a><br>=0A&gt;<br>=0A&gt; there has been some di=
scussion about it on TheGearPage.net<br>=0A&gt;<br>=0A&gt; s---<br>=0A&gt;<=
br>=0A&gt;<br>=0A<br>=0A<br>=0A<br>=0A</div></div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><f=
ont color=3D"#888888">--<br>=0A-=3D=3D-=3D-=3D-<br>=0ATony<br>=0A<br>=0A</f=
ont></span></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><=
a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://toaster.bandcamp.com">h=
ttp://toaster.bandcamp.com</a>=0A</div>=0A</td>=0A                         =
           </tr>=0A                                </tbody>=0A             =
               </table>=0A                    </div>=0A                </di=
v>=0A            </div>=0A
---347748201-996967579-1358200065=:39312--

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Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 14:13:12 -0800 (PST)
From: K D Patten <kdpatten@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: new tc electronic looper (Ditto Looper)
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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---1476983308-2076313442-1358201592=:96696
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Complexity ?......its all in what you use looper for...i dont need "bells a=
nd whistles " if I'm using it just to back up traditional looping or song w=
riting.....I'll=A0 try anything that dosn't interfere with the process..thi=
s could be an option...just wish it ran on 9 volt battery...it would be str=
eet worthy



Kyle Dean Patten=20
P.O. Box 22 Johnston, IA=A0 50131
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=3DKyle+Dean+Patten+

http://youtu.be/Mgy2dbQHkc4
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/kdpatten=20
http://www.myspace.com/kyledeanpatten=20
http://www.linkedin.com/in/kyledeanpatten

---
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<table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td valign=3D"=
top" style=3D"font: inherit;"><i><b>Complexity ?......its all in what you u=
se looper for...i dont need "bells and whistles " if I'm using it just to b=
ack up traditional looping or song writing.....I'll&nbsp; try anything that=
 dosn't interfere with the process..this could be an option...just wish it =
ran on 9 volt battery...it would be street worthy<br><br><br></b></i><br><s=
pan style=3D"color:rgb(255, 0, 255);"></span><font style=3D"font-family:gar=
amond, new york, times, serif;font-weight:bold;" size=3D"1"><span style=3D"=
color:rgb(255, 0, 127);">Kyle Dean Patten </span><br></font><span style=3D"=
color:rgb(128, 0, 255);font-family:garamond, new york, times, serif;font-we=
ight:bold;"><font size=3D"1">P.O. Box 22 Johnston, IA&nbsp; 50131</font><br=
>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family:garamond, new york, times, serif;f=
ont-weight:bold;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;
 </span><br style=3D"font-family:garamond, new york, times, serif;font-weig=
ht:bold;"><font style=3D"font-family:garamond, new york, times, serif;font-=
weight:bold;" size=3D"1"><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http=
://lmgtfy.com/?q=3DKyle+Dean+Patten+"><span id=3D"yiv1303279167ecxlw_130801=
0509_0" class=3D"yiv1303279167ecxyshortcuts">http://lmgtfy.com/?q=3DKyle+De=
an+Patten+</span></a></font><br style=3D"font-family:garamond, new york, ti=
mes, serif;font-weight:bold;"><br style=3D"font-family:garamond, new york, =
times, serif;font-weight:bold;"><a rel=3D"nofollow" style=3D"font-family:ga=
ramond, new york, times, serif;font-weight:bold;" target=3D"_blank" href=3D=
"http://youtu.be/Mgy2dbQHkc4"><span class=3D"yiv1387478679yshortcuts" id=3D=
"yiv1387478679lw_1330508280_0">http://youtu.be/Mgy2dbQHkc4</span></a><font =
style=3D"font-family:garamond, new york, times, serif;color:rgb(255, 0, 255=
);font-weight:bold;" size=3D"1"><br>http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/kdpatten </fon=
t><font
 style=3D"font-family:garamond, new york, times, serif;color:rgb(255, 0, 25=
5);font-weight:bold;" size=3D"1"><br>http://www.myspace.com/kyledeanpatten =
</font><span style=3D"font-family:garamond, new york, times, serif;color:rg=
b(255, 0, 255);font-weight:bold;"><font size=3D"1"><br>http://www.linkedin.=
com/in/kyledeanpatten</font></span><br><br>---</td></tr></table>
---1476983308-2076313442-1358201592=:96696--

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To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: new tc electronic looper (Ditto Looper)
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Buzap Buzap wrote:
>> mhmm, don't get it:
> - I think the "long press undo" probably just works on the last (overdub) layer. Here, it's also quite annoying to try to get the timing right for the long press.

Hopefully the Undo/Redo action actually occurs on release of the switch

Like in the Vox VDL-1

andy

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From: Mark Hamburg <mark@grubmah.com>
Subject: Re: new tc electronic looper (Ditto Looper)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 07:30:57 -0800
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I don't know any of this for sure but based on thinking about sensible desig=
n choices...

Undo, redo, and stop only work while in play

Undo and redo work on pedal release since they at least have to wait for hol=
d time to pass. This means you could time when the undo or redo happens.

There is no good way to time stop. It's just fade the sucker out if you can'=
t work with an ill timed stop. The other choice is that they quantize stop t=
o the loop boundary.

Timing on starting overdubs may be unreliable if they are waiting to confirm=
 that it isn't an undo/redo or a stop. Or they need to rollback whatever ove=
rdubbing was captured.


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jan 15 19:31:04 2013
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From: "Emile Tobenfeld (a.k.a Dr. T)" <emile@foryourhead.com>
Subject: Moving with the Light Saturday -- A Concert and Movement Jam
Cc: eyecandy@egroups.com, boss-improv@topica.com, iotacenter@egroups.com,
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Hi folks,

Moving with the Light is a monthly event at which improvised 
movement, music, and video interact as equals -- each responding to 
and respectful of the others. The event happens on the third Saturday 
of every month at 119 Gallery in Lowell. 119 Gallery is the nicest 
space I've ever performed at and has a movement--friendly hardwood 
floor.

The next event will happen Saturday Jan 19 at 8 PM, and will include

Doctor T. - Video (See samples at http://www.youtube.com/Tobenfeld)

with two long-time collaborators

Glynis Lomon, cello, aquasonic and voice
Rick Scott, keyboard

and YOU -- movement. All styles and skill levels welcome.

The musicians will play improvised music suitable for contact 
improvisation and other forms of gentle movement, while I improvise 
imagery and all three of us react to the dancers as well as to each 
other.

Jan 19 at 8:00 PM
119 Gallery
119 Chelmsford St
Lowell, MA 01851
978-452-8138
http://www.119gallery.org/

Five minutes from the Lowell Connector, with ample on-street parking 
and an amazing Cambodian restaurant next door.
10 minute walk from the T, but you will need a ride back.

If you need a ride or can offer one, please email me and I will try 
to hook you up.

Sliding scale -- suggested donation $10.00

-- 
-- Emile

If you can walk, you can surely DANCE

My photography can be viewed at 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/22231918@N06/collections/72157603627170351/



From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jan 15 21:46:41 2013
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From: "Buzap Buzap" <buzap@gmx.net>
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Hi Mark

since you took the time to go into details of design choices:
- With Undo/Redo: can be either long press (RC-2) or long press+release (Vox, I heard).
- Quantized stop is interesting idea. Another idea: Double click, then hold button and stop on release.
- From overdub, you can easily go to undo (roll-back overdub) or multiply.

best regards
Buzap

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jan 15 23:26:11 2013
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Subject: LP-2 questions
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I'm hoping some of you are more in the know by now, I'm still not sure =
how to use many of the functions. The 3 page sheet that comes with is =
bare bones . Hopefully at some point there will be a real manual, or do =
a fully instructional video to do it justice. In the meantime, I have =
just a few questions for those more attuned to it's features and quirks =
than I (and thanks in advance):

1 )I  love the multiple layers of undo while in play, is there any way =
to undo the undo--add back the layers one at a time, until you're back =
to the original fully overdubbed loop? Like peeling an onion and then =
re-assembling it?

2) Once you've recorded a loop and it's playing, to record another loop =
do you have to go into configuration mode and shift to another slot to =
record the next loop--or is their an easier way with less button =
pressing?

3) Are loops automatically saved to the card, even after powering down =
and back up again? If not, is there any way to save them to the card =
short of not turning it off?

4)  I seem to pick up a lot of clicking from the rapid button presses =
when I do lots of reverse and 1/4 speed overdubs on a track--anyone else =
hearing this? Also happens during the mutiple levels of replace.

It is is a very cool box, just trying to figure it out. I like some =
things I did, but I'm not sure how to repeat them...

thanks,
Paul


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jan 16 04:34:48 2013
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I've got a loop in Live with two MIDI tracks, each of which is  
assigned a virtual instrument. I've got the Live set arranged to  
repeat the 8 bar phrase again and again in a (duh!) loop.

My question: Can I render this loop to audio (maybe make it run 10  
minutes or so) so that I can save it as a high quality mp3, and then  
load it into something like an iPod, so I don't have to bring my  
laptop with me to play this particular loop?

Yes, I'm sure I can RTFM to get my answer. I will happily do so to get  
the details about how to do it. I was just wondering *if it's  
possible*. :)

Thanks in advance.

Jeff

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jan 16 04:43:57 2013
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Sure. You can record right into live, or if its aVST you can use resampling t=
o get it done. You just run the loop for however long you want, then render t=
hat to a wav. Live doesn't render as mp3s, but you can convert using iTunes o=
r some such.

T

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 15, 2013, at 8:35 PM, Jeff Shirkey <jcshirke@frontier.com> wrote:

> I've got a loop in Live with two MIDI tracks, each of which is assigned a v=
irtual instrument. I've got the Live set arranged to repeat the 8 bar phrase=
 again and again in a (duh!) loop.
>=20
> My question: Can I render this loop to audio (maybe make it run 10 minutes=
 or so) so that I can save it as a high quality mp3, and then load it into s=
omething like an iPod, so I don't have to bring my laptop with me to play th=
is particular loop?
>=20
> Yes, I'm sure I can RTFM to get my answer. I will happily do so to get the=
 details about how to do it. I was just wondering *if it's possible*. :)
>=20
> Thanks in advance.
>=20
> Jeff
>=20

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jan 16 04:45:23 2013
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Set up a new track.=20

Set audio input to Resampling.

Kill the audio output for this new Resampling track, so you don't have =
duplicate audio monitoring annoyance.

Arm the Resampling track to record.

Hit Record in the transport bar, and play the loop through for as long =
as you like.

Once you are utterly bored with your loop and you have enough time =
recorded, you can Stop.

Finally, hit (I think) Shift-Cmd-R to Render your track to file. Be sure =
to select your Resampling track in the "Rendered Track" menu in the =
dialog=85=20

Phil :)


On Jan 15, 2013, at 8:35 PM, Jeff Shirkey <jcshirke@frontier.com> wrote:

> I've got a loop in Live with two MIDI tracks, each of which is =
assigned a virtual instrument. I've got the Live set arranged to repeat =
the 8 bar phrase again and again in a (duh!) loop.
>=20
> My question: Can I render this loop to audio (maybe make it run 10 =
minutes or so) so that I can save it as a high quality mp3, and then =
load it into something like an iPod, so I don't have to bring my laptop =
with me to play this particular loop?
>=20
> Yes, I'm sure I can RTFM to get my answer. I will happily do so to get =
the details about how to do it. I was just wondering *if it's possible*. =
:)
>=20
> Thanks in advance.
>=20
> Jeff
>=20

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You may want to set the audio output of your Resampling track to =
"Master" before you Render it to file.

P


On Jan 15, 2013, at 8:43 PM, Toddbert <toddbert@gmail.com> wrote:

> Sure. You can record right into live, or if its aVST you can use =
resampling to get it done. You just run the loop for however long you =
want, then render that to a wav. Live doesn't render as mp3s, but you =
can convert using iTunes or some such.
>=20
> T
>=20
> Sent from my iPad
>=20
> On Jan 15, 2013, at 8:35 PM, Jeff Shirkey <jcshirke@frontier.com> =
wrote:
>=20
>> I've got a loop in Live with two MIDI tracks, each of which is =
assigned a virtual instrument. I've got the Live set arranged to repeat =
the 8 bar phrase again and again in a (duh!) loop.
>>=20
>> My question: Can I render this loop to audio (maybe make it run 10 =
minutes or so) so that I can save it as a high quality mp3, and then =
load it into something like an iPod, so I don't have to bring my laptop =
with me to play this particular loop?
>>=20
>> Yes, I'm sure I can RTFM to get my answer. I will happily do so to =
get the details about how to do it. I was just wondering *if it's =
possible*. :)
>>=20
>> Thanks in advance.
>>=20
>> Jeff
>>=20
>=20

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jan 16 04:51:21 2013
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You guys rock. Thanks so much to you both. :)

Jeff

On Jan 15, 2013, at 10:47 PM, Philip Clevenger wrote:

> You may want to set the audio output of your Resampling track to  
> "Master" before you Render it to file.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jan 16 07:34:42 2013
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Subject: Re: new tc electronic looper (Ditto Looper)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 23:34:34 -0800
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Well one can never have too many loopers particularly for someone  
wanting to build up real long  ambient layers , or perhaps a jazz  
guitarist to easily make it through a standard before starting to  
solo. I can think of one way to use something like this already,  
create a really long blank loop with as little signal noise  as  
possible (turn off the distortions etc turn down the volume of your  
instrument).  Then start playing ambient swells,  drones or what ever  
until you build a nice atmosphere, and then use the undo redo function  
to toggle between the loop and silence, which also acts as a more  
predictable way to stop the loop as well, as long as you don't  
continue to overdub. I really like to resample and having something  
that tiny with that much memory for that cheap seems like a no brainer  
for ones pedal board if one had the space and cash. kudos to TC. my  
only potential issue is, even with velcro on the bottom I wonder if  
this thing will have tipping issues,  it sure is a cute little thing.   
i can just hear people now, 'awe look at that sweet lil' looper"...
  Bill

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Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 00:57:48 -0800 (PST)
From: Luis Angulo <louie.angulo@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: Luis Angulo <louie.angulo@yahoo.com>
Subject: Theremin for Ipad
To: "Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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---1480336445-471095828-1358326668=:23327
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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hi Gang,=0Ais there a cool theremin app for the ipad to use live? =0A=0Ai f=
ind the one in thumbjam ok but still looking for something=A0 that i can ma=
nipulate with my hand on the air instead of touch screen and that=A0 will a=
lso include fx such delay regenerator,distortion, etc.=0A=0Athanx=0ALuis=0A=
=0A=A0=0Ahttp://www.myspace.com/luisangulocom
---1480336445-471095828-1358326668=:23327
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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:ti=
mes new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>hi Gang,</=
span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family:=
 times new roman,new york,times,serif; background-color: transparent; font-=
style: normal;"><span>is there a cool theremin app for the ipad to use live=
? <br></span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font=
-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; background-color: transparen=
t; font-style: normal;"><span>i find the one in thumbjam ok but still looki=
ng for something&nbsp; that i can manipulate with my hand on the air instea=
d of touch screen and that&nbsp; will also include fx such delay regenerato=
r,distortion, etc.<br></span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-=
size: 16px; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; background-c=
olor: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>thanx</span></div><div
 style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: times new roma=
n,new york,times,serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"=
><span>Luis</span></div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>http://www.myspace.com/luisan=
gulocom</div></div></body></html>
---1480336445-471095828-1358326668=:23327--

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Subject: Re: Theremin for Ipad
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I doubt an iPad is able to generate the electro magnetic field needed
for tracking hand movements in the air. But there are iOS synths that
sound similar to a theremin... even the most simple synths, if you use
a proper setting for portamento and maybe an LFO vibrato as well. Over
here I have Bebot and MorphWiz, but I'd guess there are many more.

Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.perboysen.com
http://www.youtube.com/perboysen


On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 9:57 AM, Luis Angulo <louie.angulo@yahoo.com> wrote:
> hi Gang,
> is there a cool theremin app for the ipad to use live?
> i find the one in thumbjam ok but still looking for something  that i can
> manipulate with my hand on the air instead of touch screen and that  will
> also include fx such delay regenerator,distortion, etc.
> thanx
> Luis
>
> http://www.myspace.com/luisangulocom

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jan 16 12:11:28 2013
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From: Ben <benoitruelle@yahoo.fr>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Cc: Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 13:11:24 +0100
Subject: Re: Theremin for Ipad
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And there's this new app just released yesterday:
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/e-theremin-electro-theremin/id591471950
free by the way.

but of course , it's still using the touch surface.


I think there is one app using the camera and detecting light/shadow but it 
wasn't that precise.
There are stuff using the accelerometer too so you'll have your hand in the air 
but with your iphone in it ;-)
With an ipad you'd better have a big hand ;-)



Ben


--------------------------------------------------
Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com> wrote:
(16/01/2013 11:41)

> I doubt an iPad is able to generate the electro magnetic field needed
> for tracking hand movements in the air. But there are iOS synths that
> sound similar to a theremin... even the most simple synths, if you use
> a proper setting for portamento and maybe an LFO vibrato as well. Over
> here I have Bebot and MorphWiz, but I'd guess there are many more.
> 
> Greetings from Sweden
> 
> Per Boysen
> www.perboysen.com
> http://www.youtube.com/perboysen
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 9:57 AM, Luis Angulo <louie.angulo@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > hi Gang,
> > is there a cool theremin app for the ipad to use live?
> > i find the one in thumbjam ok but still looking for something  that i can
> > manipulate with my hand on the air instead of touch screen and that  will
> > also include fx such delay regenerator,distortion, etc.
> > thanx
> > Luis
> >
> > http://www.myspace.com/luisangulocom

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jan 16 12:33:26 2013
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Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 07:23:27 -0500
To: Luis Angulo <louie.angulo@yahoo.com>,
 "Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
From: Charles Zwicky <cazwicky@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Theremin for Ipad
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It would be technically impossible to control the iPad  as you 
specify.  Apart from that, I highly recommend "Bebot", it's got 
looping delay capabilities, and it's worth a try. For more advances 
uses, the apps Jorden Rudness helped create are essentially Bebot 
with tremendous bells and whistles...

At 12:57 AM -0800 1/16/13, Luis Angulo wrote:
>hi Gang,
>is there a cool theremin app for the ipad to use live?
>
>i find the one in thumbjam ok but still looking for something  that 
>i can manipulate with my hand on the air instead of touch screen and 
>that  will also include fx such delay regenerator,distortion, etc.
>
>thanx
>Luis
>
>http://www.myspace.com/luisangulocom


-- 

...
http://www.zmix.net

http://albumcredits.com/zmix

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--f46d042de5956e77a604d368ec81
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I like a rather spacy one called Cosmovox... quite theremin-ish

M


On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 1:23 PM, Charles Zwicky <cazwicky@earthlink.net>wrote:

> It would be technically impossible to control the iPad  as you specify.
>  Apart from that, I highly recommend "Bebot", it's got looping delay
> capabilities, and it's worth a try. For more advances uses, the apps Jorden
> Rudness helped create are essentially Bebot with tremendous bells and
> whistles...
>
>
> At 12:57 AM -0800 1/16/13, Luis Angulo wrote:
>
>> hi Gang,
>> is there a cool theremin app for the ipad to use live?
>>
>> i find the one in thumbjam ok but still looking for something  that i can
>> manipulate with my hand on the air instead of touch screen and that  will
>> also include fx such delay regenerator,distortion, etc.
>>
>> thanx
>> Luis
>>
>> http://www.myspace.com/**luisangulocom<http://www.myspace.com/luisangulocom>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> ...
> http://www.zmix.net
>
> http://albumcredits.com/zmix
>
>


-- 
*Mark Francombe*
www.markfrancombe.com
www.ordoabkhao.com
http://vimeo.com/user825094
http://www.looop.no
twitter @markfrancombe
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/

--f46d042de5956e77a604d368ec81
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">I like a rather spacy one called Cosmovox... quite theremi=
n-ish<div><br></div><div style>M</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>=
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 1:23 PM, Charles Zwi=
cky <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cazwicky@earthlink.net" target=
=3D"_blank">cazwicky@earthlink.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">It would be technically impossible to contro=
l the iPad =A0as you specify. =A0Apart from that, I highly recommend &quot;=
Bebot&quot;, it&#39;s got looping delay capabilities, and it&#39;s worth a =
try. For more advances uses, the apps Jorden Rudness helped create are esse=
ntially Bebot with tremendous bells and whistles...<div class=3D"HOEnZb">

<div class=3D"h5"><br>
<br>
At 12:57 AM -0800 1/16/13, Luis Angulo wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
hi Gang,<br>
is there a cool theremin app for the ipad to use live?<br>
<br>
i find the one in thumbjam ok but still looking for something =A0that i can=
 manipulate with my hand on the air instead of touch screen and that =A0wil=
l also include fx such delay regenerator,distortion, etc.<br>
<br>
thanx<br>
Luis<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/luisangulocom" target=3D"_blank">http://w=
ww.myspace.com/<u></u>luisangulocom</a><br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br></div></div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">
-- <br>
<br>
...<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.zmix.net" target=3D"_blank">http://www.zmix.net</a><b=
r>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://albumcredits.com/zmix" target=3D"_blank">http://albumcred=
its.com/zmix</a><br>
<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <b=
r><i style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(255,255,255);backgro=
und-color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font style=3D"font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif" s=
ize=3D"4"><u>Mark Francombe</u></font></i><br>

<font size=3D"1"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.markfra=
ncombe.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.markfrancombe.com</a><br style=3D"color:=
rgb(51,0,51)"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.ordoabkhao=
.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.ordoabkhao.com</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,=
51)">

<a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://vimeo.com/user825094" target=
=3D"_blank">http://vimeo.com/user825094</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)"=
><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.looop.no/" target=3D"_b=
lank">http://www.looop.no</a><br>

twitter @markfrancombe<br><a href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@=
N00/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/</a><br><=
/font>
</div>

--f46d042de5956e77a604d368ec81--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jan 16 15:43:07 2013
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If you run your looper in a separate audio or aux channel, where you send 
your instrument signals to that track, I think you could record it to a clip 
easy enough.  You could even edit the clip as well.

-----Original Message----- 
I've got a loop in Live with two MIDI tracks, each of which is
assigned a virtual instrument. I've got the Live set arranged to
repeat the 8 bar phrase again and again in a (duh!) loop.

My question: Can I render this loop to audio (maybe make it run 10
minutes or so) so that I can save it as a high quality mp3, and then
load it into something like an iPod, so I don't have to bring my
laptop with me to play this particular loop?

Yes, I'm sure I can RTFM to get my answer. I will happily do so to get
the details about how to do it. I was just wondering *if it's
possible*. :)

Thanks in advance.

Jeff 

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Subject: Re: Theremin for Ipad
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Funny you should ask =97 while not an optical (true) Theremin, here's
another sound-alike you might consider. I know you asked initially
about one for the iPad, but the optical ones just aren't being pursued
as much.

http://createdigitalmusic.com/2013/01/look-ma-hands-ios-theremin-app-draws-=
from-tannerin-martenot-trautonium/

=85iPhone/iPod Touch.

Best,

Dennis

http://soundcloud.com/usrsbin
http://audiozoloft.com
http://usrslashsbin.angrek.com/


On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 5:44 AM, mark francombe <mark@markfrancombe.com> wr=
ote:
> I like a rather spacy one called Cosmovox... quite theremin-ish
>
> M
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 1:23 PM, Charles Zwicky <cazwicky@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>>
>> It would be technically impossible to control the iPad  as you specify.
>> Apart from that, I highly recommend "Bebot", it's got looping delay
>> capabilities, and it's worth a try. For more advances uses, the apps Jor=
den
>> Rudness helped create are essentially Bebot with tremendous bells and
>> whistles...
>>
>>
>> At 12:57 AM -0800 1/16/13, Luis Angulo wrote:
>>>
>>> hi Gang,
>>> is there a cool theremin app for the ipad to use live?
>>>
>>> i find the one in thumbjam ok but still looking for something  that i c=
an
>>> manipulate with my hand on the air instead of touch screen and that  wi=
ll
>>> also include fx such delay regenerator,distortion, etc.
>>>
>>> thanx
>>> Luis
>>>
>>> http://www.myspace.com/luisangulocom
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> ...
>> http://www.zmix.net
>>
>> http://albumcredits.com/zmix
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Mark Francombe
> www.markfrancombe.com
> www.ordoabkhao.com
> http://vimeo.com/user825094
> http://www.looop.no
> twitter @markfrancombe
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/

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Subject: "Delay Looping" for freezing sound bursts pre looper
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I'm a fan of "delay looping" and like to use a volume pedal to also
control loop feedback. I prefer quite short loop times for delays and
combine two of them set to different lengths in order to get at those
nice poly rhythm effects. Recently I uploaded two videos that make use
of this technique:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5N9NesJu0SQ
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1Ykofy-XB8

Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.perboysen.com
http://www.youtube.com/perboysen

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jan 17 03:21:28 2013
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Message-ID: <CADRydNpiN7Yqs4KgOc_29N=MTcMP2yQVZikW_v2UoXWFE5RdoQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: TC Electronics Ditto looper
From: Scott Hansen <evanpeewee@gmail.com>
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i suppose bill is right. an inexpensive simpler looper is not such a bad
idea i guess for the masses.
so when everyone writes: "i'm new to looping, what should i get?"
we can answer: get the ditto, it's under 100$, easy to use, has a lot of
time and simple.
problem solved.
i guess for me, as i get on my soap box again-why do we need another device
that's just a simple phrase sampler that creates static loops.
i thought that the original idea of all this looping when djs started doing
it yrs ago was to snatch bits of songs, mangle the sh*t out of them (pitch
up/down,
slow it down, speed it up, filter it, mangle it w/ effects etc) and make
something cool sounding then you do your bit on top of it (rap, sing, play,
whatever)..
isn't that what the original hardware samplers allowed you to do-MANGLE it!
isn't that why those consoles look like spaceships and us guitarists
were so afraid of them? are we so afraid of controls? maybe we are. i guess
that's why EVH's guitar is the most popular-it had one pickup & one volume
knob-pretty hard for us dumb guitarists to mess that up....
ok, i'm off my soapbox now again...
long live the tc ditto looper....
s---

--e89a8fb1f27a8a85d604d3737dbc
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
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i suppose bill is right. an inexpensive simpler looper is not such a bad id=
ea i guess for the masses.<br>so when everyone writes: &quot;i&#39;m new to=
 looping, what should i get?&quot;<br>we can answer: get the ditto, it&#39;=
s under 100$, easy to use, has a lot of time and simple. <br>
problem solved.<br>i guess for me, as i get on my soap box again-why do we =
need another device that&#39;s just a simple phrase sampler that creates st=
atic loops.<br>i thought that the original idea of all this looping when dj=
s started doing it yrs ago was to snatch bits of songs, mangle the sh*t out=
 of them (pitch up/down,<br>
slow it down, speed it up, filter it, mangle it w/ effects etc) and make so=
mething cool sounding then you do your bit on top of it (rap, sing, play, w=
hatever)..<br>isn&#39;t that what the original hardware samplers allowed yo=
u to do-MANGLE it! isn&#39;t that why those consoles look like spaceships a=
nd us guitarists<br>
were so afraid of them? are we so afraid of controls? maybe we are. i guess=
 that&#39;s why EVH&#39;s guitar is the most popular-it had one pickup &amp=
; one volume<br>knob-pretty hard for us dumb guitarists to mess that up....=
<br>
ok, i&#39;m off my soapbox now again...<br>long live the tc ditto looper...=
.<br>s---<br>

--e89a8fb1f27a8a85d604d3737dbc--

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From: stanitarium@earthlink.net
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Subject: Re: TC Electronics Ditto looper
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<head><style>body{font-size:10pt;font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:#ffffff;color:black;}p{margin:0px;}</style></head><body><font color="#000000"><font size="2"><font face="arial,sans-serif">&gt;concur&lt; I remember when theEH 16sec.DDL came out-I was so happy-mangle city-up down forward reverse-slo/fast backwards/frontwards statickee/smootheness and all @ 8 bit. no one-not even Nels Cline have tapped into all that is in &nbsp;that pedal. wish they would make a true update w/ higher sample values/bit rates and then leave it alone.</font></font></font><div><font color="#000000"><font size="2"><font face="arial,sans-serif">stanosaur.com<br></font></font></font><blockquote style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 0px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid">-----Original Message-----
<br>From: Scott Hansen <evanpeewee@gmail.com>
<br>Sent: Jan 16, 2013 7:21 PM
<br>To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
<br>Subject: TC Electronics Ditto looper

<br><br>i suppose bill is right. an inexpensive simpler looper is not such a bad idea i guess for the masses.<br>so when everyone writes: "i'm new to looping, what should i get?"<br>we can answer: get the ditto, it's under 100$, easy to use, has a lot of time and simple. <br>
problem solved.<br>i guess for me, as i get on my soap box again-why do we need another device that's just a simple phrase sampler that creates static loops.<br>i thought that the original idea of all this looping when djs started doing it yrs ago was to snatch bits of songs, mangle the sh*t out of them (pitch up/down,<br>
slow it down, speed it up, filter it, mangle it w/ effects etc) and make something cool sounding then you do your bit on top of it (rap, sing, play, whatever)..<br>isn't that what the original hardware samplers allowed you to do-MANGLE it! isn't that why those consoles look like spaceships and us guitarists<br>
were so afraid of them? are we so afraid of controls? maybe we are. i guess that's why EVH's guitar is the most popular-it had one pickup &amp; one volume<br>knob-pretty hard for us dumb guitarists to mess that up....<br>
ok, i'm off my soapbox now again...<br>long live the tc ditto looper....<br>s---<br>
</evanpeewee@gmail.com></blockquote></div></body>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jan 17 10:39:51 2013
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Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 02:39:53 -0800
From: Rick Walker <looppool@cruzio.com>
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To: Paul Sullivan <paulsull@earthlink.net>,
        "LOOPERS DELIGHT (posting)" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Re: LP-2 questions
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On 1/15/2013 3:18 PM, Paul Sullivan wrote:

*Thanks for your questions, Paul.   Here are some answers for you.
Let me know if any of them are not comprehensible.  I'll do my best now.*
> I'm hoping some of you are more in the know by now, I'm still not sure how to use many of the functions. The 3 page sheet that comes with is bare bones . Hopefully at some point there will be a real manual, or do a fully instructional video to do it justice. In the meantime, I have just a few questions for those more attuned to it's features and quirks than I (and thanks in advance):
> *Bill and I have been really busy over the holidays but are immediate intention is to begin making a comprehensive video manual for the website and for youtube.  Bear with us,  we're juggling trying to make a living as musicians in Northern California.*
> 1 )I  love the multiple layers of undo while in play, is there any way to undo the undo--add back the layers one at a time, until you're back to the original fully overdubbed loop? Like peeling an onion and then re-assembling it?
>
> *No, there is no 'RE-DO' of an UNDO on the LP-2    You can build it up (up to 30 overdubs) and peel it back, but you've got to rerecord to put it back together again.*
> *When you use UNDO,  you have to use the function,  one overdub (your last one) at a time.*
>
> 2) Once you've recorded a loop and it's playing, to record another loop do you have to go into configuration mode and shift to another slot to record the next loop--or is their an easier way with less button pressing?
> *There is no ERASE function.    Like many loopers on the market, to record another track, you need to STOP the loop that is playing and the hit RECORD to erase the last loop playing and record a new one.*
>
> 3) Are loops automatically saved to the card, even after powering down and back up again? If not, is there any way to save them to the card short of not turning it off?
> *Loops are automatically recorded to the card in it's present location.
> If you want to SAVE the last loop you recorded,  you need to move the LP-2 to another loop location.   In my next post I'll included directions for these more sophisticated
> functions (so it's more easily archived.
>
> 1) Saving Loops
> 2) Changing effect selection in the middle of a performance*
> *3) Undoing the last layer.*
>
> 4)  I seem to pick up a lot of clicking from the rapid button presses when I do lots of reverse and 1/4 speed overdubs on a track--anyone else hearing this? Also happens during the mutiple levels of replace.
> *I'm not experiencing that on the two that I"m working with right now.   When did you recieve your LP-2?
> If it was in the first batch, then you will need to get it replaced as there were some defects in the hardware that had to be redisigned.     Let me know when you got it.*
>
> It is is a very cool box, just trying to figure it out. I like some things I did, but I'm not sure how to repeat them...
> *For something as relatively cheap as it is, and as small as it is,  it's pretty danged sophisticated.
> It will take some time to get the hang of it.    Of course, I remember how mistified I was by the EDP when I first got it.      Most loopers I've found, tend to have pretty crummy manuals.
> We're hoping that by taking a bit of time and doing video demos that we can eliminate this problem.
> In the meantime,  feel free to write to me for questions you have.
>
> Yours,   Rick Walker*
>
> thanks,
> Paul


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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/15/2013 3:18 PM, Paul Sullivan
      wrote:<br>
      <br>
      <b>Thanks for your questions, Paul.&nbsp;&nbsp; Here are some answers for you.<br>
        Let me know if any of them are not comprehensible.&nbsp; I'll do my
        best now.</b><br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:%3C302A0A31-8448-48AA-A397-AE03C548EB15@earthlink.net%3E"
      type="cite">
      <pre wrap="">I'm hoping some of you are more in the know by now, I'm still not sure how to use many of the functions. The 3 page sheet that comes with is bare bones . Hopefully at some point there will be a real manual, or do a fully instructional video to do it justice. In the meantime, I have just a few questions for those more attuned to it's features and quirks than I (and thanks in advance):
<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><b>Bill and I have been really busy over the holidays but are immediate intention is to begin making a comprehensive video manual for the website and for youtube.  Bear with us,  we're juggling trying to make a living as musicians in Northern California.</b></font></pre>
    </blockquote>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:%3C302A0A31-8448-48AA-A397-AE03C548EB15@earthlink.net%3E"
      type="cite">
      <pre wrap="">1 )I  love the multiple layers of undo while in play, is there any way to undo the undo--add back the layers one at a time, until you're back to the original fully overdubbed loop? Like peeling an onion and then re-assembling it?

<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><b>No, there is no 'RE-DO' of an UNDO on the LP-2    You can build it up (up to 30 overdubs) and peel it back, but you've got to rerecord to put it back together again.</b>
<b>When you use UNDO,  you have to use the function,  one overdub (your last one) at a time.</b></font>

2) Once you've recorded a loop and it's playing, to record another loop do you have to go into configuration mode and shift to another slot to record the next loop--or is their an easier way with less button pressing?
<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><b>There is no ERASE function.    Like many loopers on the market, to record another track, you need to STOP the loop that is playing and the hit RECORD to erase the last loop playing and record a new one.</b>
</font>
3) Are loops automatically saved to the card, even after powering down and back up again? If not, is there any way to save them to the card short of not turning it off?
<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><b>Loops are automatically recorded to the card in it's present location.
If you want to SAVE the last loop you recorded,  you need to move the LP-2 to another loop location.   In my next post I'll included directions for these more sophisticated 
functions (so it's more easily archived.

1) Saving Loops
2) Changing effect selection in the middle of a performance</b>
<b>3) Undoing the last layer.</b></font>

4)  I seem to pick up a lot of clicking from the rapid button presses when I do lots of reverse and 1/4 speed overdubs on a track--anyone else hearing this? Also happens during the mutiple levels of replace.
<b><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">I'm not experiencing that on the two that I"m working with right now.   When did you recieve your LP-2?
If it was in the first batch, then you will need to get it replaced as there were some defects in the hardware that had to be redisigned.     Let me know when you got it.</font></b>

It is is a very cool box, just trying to figure it out. I like some things I did, but I'm not sure how to repeat them...
<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><b>For something as relatively cheap as it is, and as small as it is,  it's pretty danged sophisticated.
It will take some time to get the hang of it.    Of course, I remember how mistified I was by the EDP when I first got it.      Most loopers I've found, tend to have pretty crummy manuals.
We're hoping that by taking a bit of time and doing video demos that we can eliminate this problem.
In the meantime,  feel free to write to me for questions you have.

Yours,   Rick Walker</b></font>

thanks,
Paul
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>

--------------050509030602040108070001--

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Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 10:56:35 +0000 (GMT)
From: Antony Hequet <antony.hequet@yahoo.fr>
Subject: Re : "Delay Looping" for freezing sound bursts pre looper
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Kool,=0A=0AIs the Axe producingbthe delays?=0A=0AAntony Hequet=0APoet compo=
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<table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0"><tr><td valign=3D"t=
op" style=3D"font: inherit;"><div>Kool,<br /><br />Is the Axe producingbthe=
 delays?<br /><br />Antony Hequet<br />Poet composer</div></td></tr></table=
>            <div id=3D"_origMsg_">=0A                <div style=3D"font-fa=
mily:arial, helvetica, sans-serif:font-size:10pt">=0A                    <b=
r />=0A                    <div style=3D"font-family:times new roman, new y=
ork, times, serif;font-size:12pt">=0A                        <font size=3D"=
2" face=3D"Tahoma">=0A                            <hr size=3D"1">=0A       =
                     <b>=0A                                <span style=3D"f=
ont-weight:bold;">From:</span>=0A                            </b>=0A       =
                     Per Boysen &lt;perboysen@gmail.com&gt;;               =
             <br>=0A                            <b>=0A                     =
           <span style=3D"font-weight:bold:">To:</span>=0A                 =
           </b>=0A                            Loopers-Delight &lt;Loopers-D=
elight@loopers-delight.com&gt;;                                            =
                                                         <br>=0A           =
                 <b>=0A                                <span style=3D"font-=
weight:bold:">Subject:</span>=0A                            </b>=0A        =
                    "Delay Looping" for freezing sound bursts pre looper   =
                         <br>=0A                            <b>=0A         =
                       <span style=3D"font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span>=0A   =
                         </b>=0A                            Wed, Jan 16, 20=
13 11:30:33 PM                            <br>=0A                          =
  </font>=0A                            <br>=0A                            =
<table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0">=0A                =
                <tbody>=0A                                    <tr>=0A      =
                                  <td valign=3D"top" style=3D"font:inherit;=
">I'm a fan of "delay looping" and like to use a volume pedal to also<BR>co=
ntrol loop feedback. I prefer quite short loop times for delays and<BR>comb=
ine two of them set to different lengths in order to get at those<BR>nice p=
oly rhythm effects. Recently I uploaded two videos that make use<BR>of this=
 technique:<BR><BR><a href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D5N9NesJu0SQ"=
 target=3D_blank >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D5N9NesJu0SQ</a><BR>and<B=
R><a href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DA1Ykofy-XB8" target=3D_blank =
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DA1Ykofy-XB8</a><BR><BR>Greetings from Swe=
den<BR><BR>Per Boysen<BR>www.perboysen.com<BR><a href=3D"http://www.youtube=
.com/perboysen" target=3D_blank >http://www.youtube.com/perboysen</a><BR><B=
R></td>=0A                                    </tr>=0A                     =
           </tbody>=0A                            </table>=0A              =
      </div>=0A                </div>=0A            </div>=0A
---30515679-1168287746-1358420195=:93273--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jan 17 11:27:34 2013
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Subject: LP-2 ADVANCED FUNCTIONS EXPLAINED   part one
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LOOPERLATIVE LP-2 Mini Looper ADVANCED FUNCTIONS explained    PART ONE

_*CHANGING FUNCTIONS*__*during performance*_

1)  While the unit is PLAYING (and only when it is)
a LONG PRESS of RECORD    activates the FUNCTION BUTTONS so you can 
switch between them
   (once pressed, use BUTTONS 3 + 4 to scroll between two banks of 
FUNCTIONS)
You know you are in this mode when all 8 LEDS light up after the long 
press of record.
A SECOND PRESS of RECORD returns the unit to RECORD/OVERDUB/PLAY/STOP modes.

*_CHANGING FUNCTIONS with your hands before performing

_*2)  There is a SMALL BUTTON on the BACK of the LP-2 (to the immediate 
right of the SD card slot
as you face the unit in performance mode) that you can press in lightly  
with your hand to activate
switching the FUNCTION BUTTONS.    Again,  the 8 LEDs will light up and 
you can use
BUTTONS 3 + 4 to each activate one of 8 different functions.
PRESS that BUTTON a SECOND TIME returns the unit to 
RECORD/OVERDUB/PLAY/STOP modes.

*_HOW TO UNDO YOUR LAST LOOP  and up to 30 previous overdubs_*

3)  LONG PRESS OF RECORD followed by hitting RECORD again = UNDO(es) the 
last overdub
this must be done every time you want to peel back your last overdub.   
There are up to
30 UNDOs that you can activate per loop.   There is no REDO function

returns the unit to RECORD/OVERDUB/PLAY/STOP modes.

4) a  LONG PRESS OF RECORD followed by hitting PLAY  accesses SAVED 
LOOPS MODE
All 8 LEDs will light up to let you know you are in this mode
(once pressed, use BUTTONS 3 (up)  + 4 (down) to scroll  to different 
loop locations.
A SECOND PRESS of RECORD returns the unit to RECORD/OVERDUB/PLAY/STOP modes.

/_Important to note:_/   The LP-2 automatically records the last loop 
made to it's current location.
If you want to SAVE that loop,  you must make a mental note of which 
location it is stored
at (following Rule #3) and then select a different location to begin 
your next loop recording.

If you stop a loop and power down the LP-2,  the last loop you created 
is automatically saved
for you.

_*REMOVING the SD CARD and USING a COMPUTER to EDIT IT and RETURN IT TO 
THE LP-2*_

5) Now, when you power down the LP-2 you can take the SD CARD out and 
use an SD CARD READER
to import it into a computer's Audio Editor or DAW to mangle and process 
to your hearts content:
Restore it to the SD card and,  voila,  some beautiful between song 
loops that are pre-recorded while
you set yourself up for your next song's performance.    This can be 
really handy if you are using
multiple instruments to eliminate 'dead time' on stage.    I know a pop 
band who uses this function
ONLY (and very effectively) between songs because the songwriter is 
negotiating changing instruments, drum machines patterns, sequences on a 
laptop, etc.


/_Important to note:_/    The LP-2 will NOT POWER UP without an SD CARD 
in it's SLOT (on the back of the unit)
The unit uses the SD Card as part of it's operational memory.



From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jan 17 11:40:30 2013
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Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 03:40:35 -0800
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To: "LOOPERS DELIGHT (posting)" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: re: LP-2 ADVANCED FUNCTIONS EXPLAINED   part one
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<html>
  <head>

    <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    for some reason,&nbsp; the HTML didn't not translate properly when I sent
    this <br>
    the first time.&nbsp; I"m going to try again and also give function #4 a
    title (doh)<br>
    <br>
    ***************************************************<br>
    <br>
    LOOPERLATIVE LP-2 Mini Looper ADVANCED FUNCTIONS explained<br>
    <br>
    <u><b>CHANGING FUNCTIONS</b></u><u><b> during performance</b></u><br>
    <br>
    1)&nbsp; While the unit is PLAYING (and only when it is) <br>
    a LONG PRESS of RECORD&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; activates the FUNCTION BUTTONS so you can
    switch between them<br>
    &nbsp; (once pressed, use BUTTONS 3 + 4 to scroll between two banks of
    FUNCTIONS)<br>
    You know you are in this mode when all 8 LEDS light up after the
    long press of record.<br>
    A SECOND PRESS of RECORD returns the unit to
    RECORD/OVERDUB/PLAY/STOP modes.<br>
    <br>
    <b><u>CHANGING FUNCTIONS with your hands before performing<br>
        <br>
      </u></b>2)&nbsp; There is a SMALL BUTTON on the BACK of the LP-2 (to
    the immediate right of the SD card slot <br>
    as you face the unit in performance mode) that you can press in
    lightly&nbsp; with your hand to activate <br>
    switching the FUNCTION BUTTONS.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Again,&nbsp; the 8 LEDs will light up
    and you can use <br>
    BUTTONS 3 + 4 to each activate one of 8 different functions.&nbsp; <br>
    PRESS that BUTTON a SECOND TIME returns the unit to
    RECORD/OVERDUB/PLAY/STOP modes.<br>
    <br>
    <b><u>HOW TO UNDO YOUR LAST LOOP&nbsp; and up to 30 previous overdubs</u></b><br>
    <br>
    3)&nbsp; LONG PRESS OF RECORD followed by hitting RECORD again =&nbsp;&nbsp;
    UNDO(es) the last overdub<br>
    this must be done every time you want to peel back your last
    overdub.&nbsp;&nbsp; There are up to <br>
    30 UNDOs that you can activate per loop.&nbsp;&nbsp; There is no REDO function<br>
    <br>
    returns the unit to RECORD/OVERDUB/PLAY/STOP modes.<br>
    <br>
    <u><b>HOW TO SAVE LOOPS YOU'VE RECORDED</b></u><br>
    <br>
    4) a&nbsp; LONG PRESS OF RECORD followed by hitting PLAY&nbsp; accesses SAVED
    LOOPS MODE&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
    All 8 LEDs will light up to let you know you are in this mode &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
    <br>
    (once pressed, use BUTTONS 3 (up)&nbsp; + 4 (down) to scroll&nbsp; to
    different loop locations.<br>
    A SECOND PRESS of RECORD returns the unit to
    RECORD/OVERDUB/PLAY/STOP modes.<br>
    <br>
    <i><u>Important to note:</u></i>&nbsp;&nbsp; The LP-2 automatically records
    the last loop made to it's current location.<br>
    If you want to SAVE that loop,&nbsp; you must make a mental note of which
    location it is stored <br>
    at (following Rule #3) and then select a different location to begin
    your next loop recording.<br>
    <br>
    If you stop a loop and power down the LP-2,&nbsp; the last loop you
    created is automatically saved <br>
    for you.<br>
    <br>
    <u><b>REMOVING the SD CARD and USING a COMPUTER to EDIT IT and
        RETURN IT TO THE LP-2</b></u><br>
    <br>
    5) Now, when you power down the LP-2 you can take the SD CARD out
    and use an SD CARD READER <br>
    to import it into a computer's Audio Editor or DAW to mangle and
    process to your hearts content:<br>
    Restore it to the SD card and,&nbsp; voila,&nbsp; some beautiful between song
    loops that are pre-recorded while <br>
    you set yourself up for your next song's performance.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; This can be
    really handy if you are using <br>
    multiple instruments to eliminate 'dead time' on stage.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I know a
    pop band who uses this function <br>
    ONLY (and very effectively) between songs because the songwriter is
    negotiating changing instruments, drum machines patterns, sequences
    on a laptop, etc.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <i><u>Important to note:</u></i>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The LP-2 will NOT POWER UP
    without an SD CARD in it's SLOT (on the back of the unit)<br>
    The unit uses the SD Card as part of it's operational memory.
  </body>
</html>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jan 17 12:30:22 2013
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Subject: Re: Re : "Delay Looping" for freezing sound bursts pre looper
From: Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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--f46d044468fd91efb104d37b2808
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On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 11:56 AM, Antony Hequet <antony.hequet@yahoo.fr>wrote:

> Is the Axe producingbthe delays?


Yes, this is the AxeFx's delay blocks. In the clean sound (red Stick) video
the more CPU demanding Tape Delay block, but in the video with the bigger
brown Stick I used plain normal digital stereo and pingpon delay blocks in
the Axe.

But this is a simple signal routing technique and I've done it with all
kinds of delay machines and stomp pedals since around 1980. Last decade
I've been mostly doing the same thing inside laptops utilizing delay
plugins but it's all the same since the trick is so simple and mostly about
routing the signal right and being careful with the sweet-spot for
feedback. I guess my "freeze audio" point is around 102 or 103 percent, and
then I back off a little top or bottom of the feedback loop to make the
frozen cloud climb slowly or sink towards a lower frequency range.

Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.perboysen.com
http://www.youtube.com/perboysen

--f46d044468fd91efb104d37b2808
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On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 11:56 AM, Antony Hequet <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:antony.hequet@yahoo.fr" target=3D"_blank">antony.hequet@yahoo.=
fr</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D=
"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding=
-left:1ex">
Is the Axe producingbthe delays?</blockquote></div><br>Yes, this is the Axe=
Fx&#39;s delay blocks. In the clean sound (red Stick) video the more CPU de=
manding Tape Delay block, but in the video with the bigger brown Stick I us=
ed plain normal digital stereo and pingpon delay blocks in the Axe.=C2=A0<d=
iv>
<br></div><div>But this is a simple signal routing technique and I&#39;ve d=
one it with all kinds of delay machines and stomp pedals since around 1980.=
 Last decade I&#39;ve been mostly doing the same thing inside laptops utili=
zing delay plugins but it&#39;s all the same since the trick is so simple a=
nd mostly about routing the signal right and being careful with the sweet-s=
pot for feedback. I guess my &quot;freeze audio&quot; point is around 102 o=
r 103 percent, and then I back off a little top or bottom of the feedback l=
oop to make the frozen cloud climb slowly or sink towards a lower frequency=
 range.<br>
<br clear=3D"all"><div>Greetings from Sweden<br><br>Per Boysen<br><a href=
=3D"http://www.perboysen.com" target=3D"_blank">www.perboysen.com</a><br><a=
 href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/perboysen" target=3D"_blank">http://www.you=
tube.com/perboysen</a><br>
</div>
</div>

--f46d044468fd91efb104d37b2808--

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Message-ID: <CADRydNrQBacXAP-JByXP7EfWbb4-FUrtB4_EC5NNU5jeTgW9rg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: TC Electronics Ditto looper
From: Scott Hansen <evanpeewee@gmail.com>
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--e89a8fb1f2aad0de9c04d37e5481
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i had the reissue for awhile, and i will agree, i thought it was ALMOST
PERFECT-except for the ability for a distorted signal to go through
(charles zwicky had emailed me about this & he had contacted EH about the
fix-but instead of fixing it they went w/ the eh 2880).
which is sad. i know some people didn't like the sliders, so i always
wondered if they could somehow combine the eh16ddl w/ the knob format of
the eh smmh to make it simpler.
to me-if you want a looper-doesn't it make sense you can record a bit of
info (and honestly isn't 16 sec or 30 sec enough?) be able to REVERSE it or
SLOW DOWN or SPEED IT UP?

i did like the eh smmh, but wish the looper function was more of a delay
based model w/in the pedal.
i currently have the echolution...which honestly i really like. it acually
does all i want it to do....so i guess i'm happy.
but yes, STAN i'm w/ you on....i guess that's why we don't make looper
pedals...we'd probably be out of business FAST!!!!!
s---

>concur< I remember when theEH 16sec.DDL came out-I was so happy-mangle
city-up down forward reverse-slo/fast backwards/frontwards
statickee/smootheness and all @ 8 bit. no one-not even Nels Cline have
tapped into all that is in  that pedal. wish they would make a true update
w/ higher sample values/bit rates and then leave it alone.stanosaur.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Hansen
Sent: Jan 16, 2013 7:21 PM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: TC Electronics Ditto looper

i suppose bill is right. an inexpensive simpler looper is not such a bad
idea i guess for the masses.
so when everyone writes: "i'm new to looping, what should i get?"
we can answer: get the ditto, it's under 100$, easy to use, has a lot of
time and simple.
problem solved.
i guess for me, as i get on my soap box again-why do we need another device
that's just a simple phrase sampler that creates static loops.
i thought that the original idea of all this looping when djs started doing
it yrs ago was to snatch bits of songs, mangle the sh*t out of them (pitch
up/down,
slow it down, speed it up, filter it, mangle it w/ effects etc) and make
something cool sounding then you do your bit on top of it (rap, sing, play,
whatever)..
isn't that what the original hardware samplers allowed you to do-MANGLE it!
isn't that why those consoles look like spaceships and us guitarists
were so afraid of them? are we so afraid of controls? maybe we are. i guess
that's why EVH's guitar is the most popular-it had one pickup & one volume
knob-pretty hard for us dumb guitarists to mess that up....
ok, i'm off my soapbox now again...
long live the tc ditto looper....

--e89a8fb1f2aad0de9c04d37e5481
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<font color=3D"#000000"><font><font face=3D"arial,sans-serif">i had the rei=
ssue for awhile, and i will agree, i thought it was ALMOS<font>T PERFECT-ex=
cept for the ability for a distorted signal to go through (charles zwicky h=
ad emailed me about <font>this &amp; h<font>e had contacted EH about the fi=
x-but instead of fix<font>i<font>ng it they went w/ the eh 2880).<br>
<font>which is sad. i know some <font>people didn&#39;t like the sli<font>d=
ers, so i always wondered if they could somehow com<font>bine the eh16ddl w=
/ the knob format of the eh smmh to make it simpler.<br><font>to me-if you =
want a looper-doesn&#39;t it make sense you can record a bit <font>of info =
(and hon<font>estly isn&#39;t 16 sec or 3<font>0 sec enou<font>gh?) be able=
 to REVERSE it or SLOW DOWN or SPEED IT UP?<br>
<br><font>i did like the eh smmh, but <font>wish the looper fu<font>nction =
was more of a delay based model w/in the pedal.<br><font>i currently have t=
he <font>echolution...which honestly i <font>really like. it acually does a=
ll i want it to do....so i guess i&#39;m happy.<br>
<font>but yes, STAN i&#39;m w/ you on<font>....i guess that&#39;s why we do=
n&#39;t make looper pedals...we&#39;d probably be out of b<font>usiness FAS=
<font>T!!!!!<br><font>s---</font><br></font></font></font></font></font></f=
ont></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font><=
/font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font=
><br>
&gt;concur&lt;
 I remember when theEH 16sec.DDL came out-I was so happy-mangle city-up=20
down forward reverse-slo/fast backwards/frontwards statickee/smootheness
 and all @ 8 bit. no one-not even Nels Cline have tapped into all that=20
is in =A0that pedal. wish they would make a true update w/ higher sample=20
values/bit rates and then leave it alone.<font color=3D"#000000"><font><fon=
t face=3D"arial,sans-serif"><a href=3D"http://stanosaur.com">stanosaur.com<=
/a><br></font></font></font>-----Original Message-----
<br>From: Scott Hansen=20
<br>Sent: Jan 16, 2013 7:21 PM
<br>To: <a href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Deli=
ght@loopers-delight.com</a>
<br>Subject: TC Electronics Ditto looper

<br><br>i suppose bill is right. an inexpensive simpler looper is not such =
a bad idea i guess for the masses.<br>so when everyone writes: &quot;i&#39;=
m new to looping, what should i get?&quot;<br>we can answer: get the ditto,=
 it&#39;s under 100$, easy to use, has a lot of time and simple. <br>

problem solved.<br>i guess for me, as i get on my soap box again-why do=20
we need another device that&#39;s just a simple phrase sampler that creates=
=20
static loops.<br>i thought that the original idea of all this looping=20
when djs started doing it yrs ago was to snatch bits of songs, mangle=20
the sh*t out of them (pitch up/down,<br>
slow it down, speed it up, filter it, mangle it w/ effects etc) and make
 something cool sounding then you do your bit on top of it (rap, sing,=20
play, whatever)..<br>isn&#39;t that what the original hardware samplers=20
allowed you to do-MANGLE it! isn&#39;t that why those consoles look like=20
spaceships and us guitarists<br>
were so afraid of them? are we so afraid of controls? maybe we are. i=20
guess that&#39;s why EVH&#39;s guitar is the most popular-it had one pickup=
=20
&amp; one volume<br>knob-pretty hard for us dumb guitarists to mess that up=
....<br>
ok, i&#39;m off my soapbox now again...<br>long live the tc ditto looper...=
.<br>

--e89a8fb1f2aad0de9c04d37e5481--

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Subject: LP-2 questions 
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 08:54:46 -0800
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>
> I'm hoping some of you are more in the know by now, I'm still not  
> sure how to use many of the functions. The 3 page sheet that comes  
> with is bare bones . Hopefully at some point there will be a real  
> manual, or do a fully instructional video to do it justice. In the  
> meantime, I have just a few questions for those more attuned to it's  
> features and quirks than I (and thanks in advance):
>
> 1 )I  love the multiple layers of undo while in play, is there any  
> way to undo the undo--add back the layers one at a time, until  
> you're back to the original fully overdubbed loop? Like peeling an  
> onion and then re-assembling it?

there is no redo function the decision  was made to have more layers  
of undo for loop deconstruction which i agree with, you can always re  
record your last part but no other pedal can peal the loops back to  
square like the LP-2

>
> 2) Once you've recorded a loop and it's playing, to record another  
> loop do you have to go into configuration mode and shift to another  
> slot to record the next loop--or is their an easier way with less  
> button pressing?

  while in play mode with loop running, a long press on record gets  
you in to configuration mode (the row of LEDs blinking on and off)  
then short press the play stop button which will then allows you to  
scroll through the 8 loop locations using the effects buttons. Only  
one loop can be played at a time
>
> 3) Are loops automatically saved to the card, even after powering  
> down and back up again? If not, is there any way to save them to the  
> card short of not turning it off?
  Yes save is automatic, what you wrote at a location will stay there  
until overwritten, if you want to save and archive a bunch of loops I  
suggest getting a CF reader and downloading to computer or buy extra  
cf cards.
>
> 4)  I seem to pick up a lot of clicking from the rapid button  
> presses when I do lots of reverse and 1/4 speed overdubs on a track-- 
> anyone else hearing this? Also happens during the mutiple levels of  
> replace.
  it may be that feedback is not set at 100% , do you have an  
expression pedal plugged in to the feedback port?if so it should be in  
the toe down position when doing these kinds of commands . I leave my  
expression pedal at toe down unless I'm using it to fade content away  
I noticed some clicks when the pedal was toward the heel down position  
when doing a bunch of quantizing and this solved that issue.
>
> It is is a very cool box, just trying to figure it out. I like some  
> things I did, but I'm not sure how to repeat them...
>
> thanks,

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Subject: Re: LP-2 ADVANCED FUNCTIONS EXPLAINED part one
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--047d7b6d962471f69404d37f9f9a
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

*>> REMOVING the SD CARD and USING a COMPUTER to EDIT IT and RETURN IT TO
THE LP-2*

Haven't tried it yet, but the manual says we can't do that...  is it
something that was added with the updated hardware?
Sylvain

--047d7b6d962471f69404d37f9f9a
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><u style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80)"><b>&gt;&gt; REMOVING the S=
D CARD and USING a COMPUTER to EDIT IT and RETURN IT TO THE LP-2</b></u><br=
 style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80)"><div><br></div><div style>Haven&#39;t tried i=
t yet, but the manual says we can&#39;t do that... =A0is it something that =
was added with the updated hardware?</div>
<div style>Sylvain</div></div>

--047d7b6d962471f69404d37f9f9a--

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Subject: Very Odd and OT VG-8 Question
From: Kevin Cheli-Colando <billowhead@gmail.com>
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Okay, maybe the question isn't that odd but its definitely off topic.

I'm running a midi guitar to a Roland US 20 Midi selector going to a
VG8 and an Axon 100.  The issue is that the VG8 produces a very low
volume high pitched feedback when I use this connector and I'm not
sure why.  The Axon doesn't have this trouble and the VG 8 is fine
when the guitar runs directly.  Also, it doesn't matter which plug I
use (A or B), the VG8 still gets that ring-y feedback going.  The
sound itself is like there is some small bit of a signal getting
caught in a feedback loop, its quiet but noisy when I'm not playing.

Just curious if any of the guitar synth players or other geniuses here
might have a clue about this as I'm stumped.

Thanks,

Kevin

-- 
Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and to have a
form. That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all trouble.

- Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jan 17 18:32:05 2013
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Subject: Re: Very Odd and OT VG-8 Question
From: Simeon Harris <simeonharris40@googlemail.com>
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my old vg-8 used to produce some noise when the mag outs weren't =
connected to the gk. i solved it by unsoldering pin 7 which normally =
carries the mag signal. the gk lead isn't shielded very well and if the =
mag line isn't connected, then it's just acting like a big long antenna.

On 17 Jan 2013, at 18:20, Kevin Cheli-Colando wrote:

> Okay, maybe the question isn't that odd but its definitely off topic.
>=20
> I'm running a midi guitar to a Roland US 20 Midi selector going to a
> VG8 and an Axon 100.  The issue is that the VG8 produces a very low
> volume high pitched feedback when I use this connector and I'm not
> sure why.  The Axon doesn't have this trouble and the VG 8 is fine
> when the guitar runs directly.  Also, it doesn't matter which plug I
> use (A or B), the VG8 still gets that ring-y feedback going.  The
> sound itself is like there is some small bit of a signal getting
> caught in a feedback loop, its quiet but noisy when I'm not playing.
>=20
> Just curious if any of the guitar synth players or other geniuses here
> might have a clue about this as I'm stumped.
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> Kevin
>=20
> --=20
> Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and to have =
a
> form. That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all =
trouble.
>=20
> - Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)
>=20

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Subject: Re: Very Odd and OT VG-8 Question
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I've had some weird problems with the US20 if all the devices hooked
up aren't turned on.

On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 1:32 PM, Simeon Harris
<simeonharris40@googlemail.com> wrote:
> my old vg-8 used to produce some noise when the mag outs weren't connecte=
d to the gk. i solved it by unsoldering pin 7 which normally carries the ma=
g signal. the gk lead isn't shielded very well and if the mag line isn't co=
nnected, then it's just acting like a big long antenna.
>
> On 17 Jan 2013, at 18:20, Kevin Cheli-Colando wrote:
>
>> Okay, maybe the question isn't that odd but its definitely off topic.
>>
>> I'm running a midi guitar to a Roland US 20 Midi selector going to a
>> VG8 and an Axon 100.  The issue is that the VG8 produces a very low
>> volume high pitched feedback when I use this connector and I'm not
>> sure why.  The Axon doesn't have this trouble and the VG 8 is fine
>> when the guitar runs directly.  Also, it doesn't matter which plug I
>> use (A or B), the VG8 still gets that ring-y feedback going.  The
>> sound itself is like there is some small bit of a signal getting
>> caught in a feedback loop, its quiet but noisy when I'm not playing.
>>
>> Just curious if any of the guitar synth players or other geniuses here
>> might have a clue about this as I'm stumped.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Kevin
>>
>> --
>> Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and to have a
>> form. That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all troubl=
e.
>>
>> - Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)
>>
>



--=20
-=3D=3D-=3D-=3D-
Tony

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jan 17 22:20:55 2013
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Subject: Listen to Galactic Travels
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GALACTIC TRAVELS ON WDIY: http://galactictravels.info
=======================================================================
Tonight at 11 pm EST/GMT-5 on Galactic Travels, I'll continue the
month-long Special Focus on Mystified.  The Featured CD at Midnight
will be "Coming Days" on Attenuation Circuit Records.  The Special
Focus page is at http://soundscapes.us/gt/playlists/2013/focus.html#jan

Galactic Travels is an electronic, ambient, and space music show that
airs each Thursday at 11:04 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and
Bethlehem, 93.9 FM in Easton and Phillipsburg, 93.7 FM in Fogelsville
and Trexlertown, on the internet, and in High Definition Radio at 88.1
FM.  Listen at http://wdiy.org on the internet.

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Subject: Re: LP-2 ADVANCED FUNCTIONS EXPLAINED   part one
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 18:53:56 -0500
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nice, can't wait for the other parts! Looks great so far...

Teddy

On Jan 17, 2013, at 6:40 AM, Rick Walker wrote:

> LOOPERLATIVE LP-2 Mini Looper ADVANCED FUNCTIONS explained

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<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">nice, =
can't wait for the other parts! Looks great so far...<div><div><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; =
text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"'Lucida =
Grande'"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: =
16px;"><br></span></font></div><div style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: medium; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; font-size: 12px; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 16px; =
">Teddy</span></span></div></div></span>
</div>
<br><div><div>On Jan 17, 2013, at 6:40 AM, Rick Walker wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite">
 =20

    <meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3DISO-8859-1">
 =20
  <div text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">LOOPERLATIVE LP-2 Mini =
Looper ADVANCED FUNCTIONS =
explained</div></blockquote></div></div></body></html>=

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jan 18 14:07:40 2013
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Anyone still wants to place a bulk order?
According to Bob, we could get a slight discount, if we do.

Chris


Am 23.11.2012 um 17:42 schrieb Antony Hequet:

> I would be curious, I am at the Funkhaus in Nalepastrasse. Have a =
studio there; would you like to come over some time?
>=20
> De : Pawel Janowski <pjanowski@gmail.com>
> =C0 : "Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" =
<Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>=20
> Envoy=E9 le : Vendredi 23 novembre 2012 16h23
> Objet : Re: LP2 to Germany
>=20
> I am probably one of the few people in Germany with one, so if any of =
you would like to try one in Berlin, let me know.
>=20
> Pawel
>=20
>=20
> On 23 November 2012 15:47, Sergio Girardi <simpliflying@gmail.com> =
wrote:
> might too
> not much money now but I will need a battery operated looper in the =
future and if I can get this for a price I can pay, deal. Or I will have =
to sadly go for the Vox 2 loops one...
> Let me know.
>=20
> Sergio
> Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 13:11:11 +0000
> From: antony.hequet@yahoo.fr
> Subject: Re: LP2 to Germany
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>=20
>=20
> might do
>=20
> De : jrploopers <jrploopers@kliklak.net>
> =C0 : Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
> Envoy=E9 le : Vendredi 23 novembre 2012 13h38
> Objet : LP2 to Germany
>=20
> I=B4d like to buy a Looperlative LP2 myself and wonder, if it makes =
sense to place a bulk order to Germany in case anyone else on this list =
living here wants one, too.=20
> ?
>=20
> jayrope
> ---
> kliklak.net
> aircushionfinish.com
> prinzenallee.com
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20


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<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
"><div>Anyone still wants to place a bulk order?</div><div>According to =
Bob, we could get a slight discount, if we =
do.</div><div><br></div><div>Chris</div><div><br></div><br><div><div>Am =
23.11.2012 um 17:42 schrieb Antony Hequet:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div =
style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:Courier New, =
courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif;font-size:14pt"><div><span>I =
would be curious, I am at the Funkhaus in Nalepastrasse. Have a studio =
there; would you like to come over some =
time?</span></div><div><br></div>  <div style=3D"font-size: 14pt; =
font-family: 'Courier New', courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif; "> =
<div style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new =
york', times, serif; "> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">=
 <hr size=3D"1">  <b><span =
style=3D"font-weight:bold;">De&nbsp;:</span></b> Pawel Janowski &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:pjanowski@gmail.com">pjanowski@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br> =
<b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">=C0&nbsp;:</span></b> "<a =
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@looper=
s-delight.com</a>" &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@looper=
s-delight.com</a>&gt; <br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Envoy=E9 =
le :</span></b> Vendredi 23 novembre 2012 16h23<br> <b><span =
style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Objet&nbsp;:</span></b> Re: LP2 to
 Germany<br> </font> </div> <br><meta =
http-equiv=3D"x-dns-prefetch-control" content=3D"off"><div =
id=3D"yiv1862129011">I am probably one of the few people in Germany with =
one, so if any of you would like to try one in Berlin, let me =
know.<div><br></div><div>Pawel</div><div =
class=3D"yiv1862129011gmail_extra"><br><br><div =
class=3D"yiv1862129011gmail_quote">On 23 November 2012 15:47, Sergio =
Girardi <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" =
ymailto=3D"mailto:simpliflying@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" =
href=3D"mailto:simpliflying@gmail.com">simpliflying@gmail.com</a>&gt;</spa=
n> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"yiv1862129011gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">


<div><div dir=3D"ltr">
might too<div>not much money now but I will need a battery operated =
looper in the future and if I can get this for a price I can pay, deal. =
Or I will have to sadly go for the Vox 2 loops one...<br>Let me =
know.</div><div>
<br></div><div>Sergio</div><div><div><div></div><hr>Date: Fri, 23 Nov =
2012 13:11:11 +0000<br>From: <a rel=3D"nofollow" =
ymailto=3D"mailto:antony.hequet@yahoo.fr" target=3D"_blank" =
href=3D"mailto:antony.hequet@yahoo.fr">antony.hequet@yahoo.fr</a><br>Subje=
ct: Re: LP2 to Germany<br>To: <a rel=3D"nofollow" =
ymailto=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" target=3D"_blank" =
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@looper=
s-delight.com</a><div>
<div class=3D"yiv1862129011h5"><br><br><div style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: 'Courier New', courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif; =
">might do</div><br>  <div style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
'Courier New', courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif; "> <div =
style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', =
times, serif; ">
 <div dir=3D"ltr"> <font face=3D"Arial"> <hr size=3D"1">  <b><span =
style=3D"font-weight:bold;">De&nbsp;:</span></b> jrploopers &lt;<a =
rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:jrploopers@kliklak.net" =
target=3D"_blank" =
href=3D"mailto:jrploopers@kliklak.net">jrploopers@kliklak.net</a>&gt;<br> =
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;">=C0&nbsp;:</span></b> <a =
rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" =
target=3D"_blank" =
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@looper=
s-delight.com</a> <br>
 <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;">Envoy=E9 le :</span></b> Vendredi =
23 novembre 2012 13h38<br> <b><span =
style=3D"font-weight:bold;">Objet&nbsp;:</span></b> LP2 to Germany<br> =
</font> </div> <br>I=B4d like to buy a Looperlative LP2 myself and =
wonder, if it makes sense to place a bulk order to Germany in case =
anyone else on this list living here wants one, too.
 <br>?<br><br>jayrope<br>---<br><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" =
href=3D"http://kliklak.net/">kliklak.net</a><br><a rel=3D"nofollow" =
target=3D"_blank" =
href=3D"http://aircushionfinish.com/">aircushionfinish.com</a><br><a =
rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" =
href=3D"http://prinzenallee.com/">prinzenallee.com</a><br>
<br><br><br> </div> </div></div></div></div></div> 		 	 =
  		  </div></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>
</div><meta http-equiv=3D"x-dns-prefetch-control" content=3D"on"><br><br> =
</div> </div>  </div></div></blockquote></div><br></body></html>=

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Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 11:57:04 -0500
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Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?01=2E22=2E13_=3E_The_PiNG_presents_dr?=
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. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

. 01.22.13 . THE AMBiENT PiNG presents
THE dreamSTATE DRONE CYCLE . CODA . (C)
a 3 hour drone featuring dreamSTATE,
STEVEN SAUVÉ, WALLY JERICHO, CHERYL O,
STUART CLARK, JAMES BAILEY & scant intone
+ projections by GENERAL CHAOS VISUALS +
LYNN HARRIGAN - Scenes from the Drone Cycle 2012
@ Supermarket . 268 Augusta Ave . Kensington Market
     just south of College  .  Map, info and directions at:
     http://www.supermarkettoronto.com/site/section/contact
     Tues. Jan. 22nd . Doors open and Drone starts at 8:00 . $6

Thanks to Jeff Howard, we'll have the PiNG LiVE STREAM
flowing again at 8:00PM on Tuesday January 22nd for
those of you who can't make it live and in person.
http://www.livestream.com/theambientping

. 8:00 . dreamSTATE, STEVEN SAUVÉ (Geek Weekend),
WALLY JERICHO, CHERYL O (quasiMODAL), STUART CLARK,
JAMES BAILEY and scant intone . Rather than leave everyone
hanging again for another 12 years, dreamSTATE decided to
bring the drone back home to C for the January PiNG with a
good old fashioned 3 hour drone with the PiNG community.
This CODA to the DRONE CYCLE will include droners from
the first Cycle in 2000 plus one from the 2012 Cycle and
a new artist to the PiNG.

dreamSTATE starts the drone at 8:00pm and then passes on
the drone baton to their special guest droners: Steven Sauvé
(Geek Weekend) on electronics, Wally Jericho on trumpet,
cheryl o (quasiMODAL) on cello, Stuart Clark on electronics,
James Bailey (NOiNO/Odradek) on anythingatall, and
scant intone on electronics. General Chaos Visuals on
general chaos and visuals.

In the grand tradition of our Back to School Drones this
Start The Year Off Right Drone will have 4 drone stations
set up on stage for each guest to plug into so that as one
joins the drone another leaves the drone. Each droner will
play for about 40 minutes and there will always be at least
two artists keeping the drone evolving for 3 hours.

3 Hour Continuous Drone Schedule:

8:00 - 8:40 . dreamSTATE (Scott M2 & Jamie Todd)
8:40 - 9:00 . Scott M2 & Steven Sauvé
9:00 - 9:20 . Steven Sauvé & Wally Jericho
9:20 - 9:40 . Wally Jericho & Cheryl O
9:40 - 10:00 . Cheryl O & Stuart Clark
10:00 - 10:20 . Stuart Clark & James Bailey
10:20 - 10:40 . James Bailey & scant intone
10:40 - 11:00 . scant intone & Jamie Todd

. GENERAL CHAOS VISUALS . Course it wouldn't be a proper
drone without a visual component to mesmerize on so we'll
have Stephen and Eric providing some good old mind bending
GENERAL CHAOS VISUALS for you to gaze upon.

. Lynn Harrigan - Scenes from the Drone Cycle 2012 . As part
of The Drone Cycle 2012 Coda, the PiNG and Supermarket are
proud to present fiber-artist Lynn Harrigan's now-completed series
"Scenes from the Drone Cycle 2012".

Lynn observed how each Drone Cycle guest brought their personal
identity to the soundweave and wanted to celebrate and visually
document the entire series. She employed mixed-media techniques
blending artistic practises ancient and ultra-modern. The analogue
light projections of General Chaos Visuals were captured with digital
photography and printed on traditional ecclesiastical Irish linen.
Digital images of the musicians were selected to represent each
concert and the heart of each image was then drawn onto the linen
and hand-stitched with single-strand DMC cotton floss.

The complete series will be exhibited at Supermarket from Saturday
January 19th through 27th and will be available for viewing at
this week's PiNG, just outside the performance-space entrance.
Supermarket opens at 5:30pm for dinner Tuesday to Friday
and at noon on weekends.  http://www.lynnharrigan.com

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

COMiNG SOON:

. More PiNGs starting sometime in March . Stay tuned,
we'll post who and when soon to the usual PiNG Channels.
@ Supermarket . 268 Augusta Ave . Kensington Market
     just south of College . Map, info and directions at:
     http://www.supermarkettoronto.com/site/section/contact

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

--->  FREE MP3 --- DRONE'S END  <---

For those of you not on the dreamSTATE list, here's a new free
mp3 release "Drone's End" from the "finale" of the final concert
in the 2012 Drone Cycle. That's Beau Lukes (Sorcerer) on the
ancient drone instrument, the didgeridoo. Hear it here:
http://www.dreamstate.to/audio/drones_end.mp3

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Ambient CDs and DVDs are available at the ping things table
during Tuesday's show and online at:
http://www.pingthings.com

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

THE AMBiENT PiNG is a Toronto based creative community of
audio artists, performers, musicians and visual artists. The PiNG
presents live multimedia performances featuring ambient, electronic,
soundscape, space, drone, psychedelic, chillout, downtempo,
darkwave and experimental artists from around the world.
http://www.theambientping.com

The PiNG also has a Twitter account to send you advance updates
and reminders of the when & where of future PiNG events.
Just search for ambientping to find us. http://twitter.com

We're also on facebook too, again just search THE AMBiENT PiNG.
http://www.facebook.com

ViSiT the ping things store for ambient, electronic and chill things:
http://www.pingthings.com

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Please forward this e-mail to any interested friends or
appropriate newsgroups. Thanks.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jan 21 09:34:21 2013
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From: "Michael Peters" <mp@mpeters.de>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: fading memories
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 10:34:16 +0100
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	charset="UTF-8"
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http://veloopity.bandcamp.com/album/fading-memories
 
a new album of guitar/ambient/fieldrecording dreamscapes. Enjoy!
 
-Michael Peters
 

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pity.bandcamp.com/album/fading-memories</a><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>a new album of =
guitar/ambient/<span class=3DSpellE>fieldrecording</span> dreamscapes. =
Enjoy!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
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y></html>
------=_NextPart_000_0027_01CDF7C2.DD665640--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jan 21 18:54:52 2013
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From: Steven Clements <sdclements@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 11:54:10 -0700
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Subject: Re: fading memories
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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--e89a8f22c381f291b504d3d0fe09
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very cool

On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 2:34 AM, Michael Peters <mp@mpeters.de> wrote:

> http://veloopity.bandcamp.com/album/fading-memories****
>
> ** **
>
> a new album of guitar/ambient/fieldrecording dreamscapes. Enjoy!****
>
> ** **
>
> -Michael Peters****
>
> ** **
>

--e89a8f22c381f291b504d3d0fe09
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

very cool<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 2:34 AM=
, Michael Peters <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mp@mpeters.de" tar=
get=3D"_blank">mp@mpeters.de</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-=
left:1ex">

<div link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" lang=3D"DE"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
><a href=3D"http://veloopity.bandcamp.com/album/fading-memories" target=3D"=
_blank">http://veloopity.bandcamp.com/album/fading-memories</a><u></u><u></=
u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">

<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">a new a=
lbum of guitar/ambient/<span>fieldrecording</span> dreamscapes. Enjoy!<span=
 class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><u></u><u></u></font></span></spa=
n></p><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
>

<span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
<span lang=3D"EN-US">-Michael Peters<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p></font></span>=
</div></div></blockquote>

</div><br>

--e89a8f22c381f291b504d3d0fe09--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jan 21 19:27:50 2013
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We already had some analysis of the button presses of the TC-Ditto,
with it impressive functionality from a simple package.

Here's something we missed.

Once you've recorded a loop and stopped it you have 2 choices
1) Longpress to Erase
2) Shortpress to Play

Which means that the Play function won't start till the switch is released.

Far from ideal if accurate timing is needed.

Do TC think guitarists have such poor rhythmic ability that they won't 
notice ;-)

andy

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jan 21 21:42:38 2013
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FYI: All iOS devices respond to "button" release rather than press.. 
just imagine you're filming in reverse...!

At 7:27 PM +0000 1/21/13, andy butler wrote:
>We already had some analysis of the button presses of the TC-Ditto,
>with it impressive functionality from a simple package.
>
>Here's something we missed.
>
>Once you've recorded a loop and stopped it you have 2 choices
>1) Longpress to Erase
>2) Shortpress to Play
>
>Which means that the Play function won't start till the switch is released.
>
>Far from ideal if accurate timing is needed.
>
>Do TC think guitarists have such poor rhythmic ability that they 
>won't notice ;-)
>
>andy


-- 

...
http://www.zmix.net

http://albumcredits.com/zmix

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jan 21 22:09:54 2013
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Subject: Re: TC-Ditto fatal flaw
From: Z <zzz@zzz.ch>
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Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 23:00:26 +0100
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FYI: Well, not really, it depends on how the app was designed on your =
iOS device.
Or did I not get your message right?
;)
Z
http://zzz.ch
http://loopr.net

On 21 janv. 2013, at 22:33, Charles Zwicky <cazwicky@earthlink.net> =
wrote:

> FYI: All iOS devices respond to "button" release rather than press..=20=

> just imagine you're filming in reverse...!
>=20
> At 7:27 PM +0000 1/21/13, andy butler wrote:
>> We already had some analysis of the button presses of the TC-Ditto,
>> with it impressive functionality from a simple package.
>>=20
>> Here's something we missed.
>>=20
>> Once you've recorded a loop and stopped it you have 2 choices
>> 1) Longpress to Erase
>> 2) Shortpress to Play
>>=20
>> Which means that the Play function won't start till the switch is =
released.
>>=20
>> Far from ideal if accurate timing is needed.
>>=20
>> Do TC think guitarists have such poor rhythmic ability that they=20
>> won't notice ;-)
>>=20
>> andy
>=20
>=20
> --=20
>=20
> ...
> http://www.zmix.net
>=20
> http://albumcredits.com/zmix
>=20

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Subject: Re: TC-Ditto fatal flaw
From: Sylvain Poitras <sylvain.trombone@gmail.com>
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That's not right, the developer can code for press of release.

Sylvain

On Monday, January 21, 2013, Charles Zwicky wrote:

> FYI: All iOS devices respond to "button" release rather than press.. just
> imagine you're filming in reverse...!
>
> At 7:27 PM +0000 1/21/13, andy butler wrote:
>
>> We already had some analysis of the button presses of the TC-Ditto,
>> with it impressive functionality from a simple package.
>>
>> Here's something we missed.
>>
>> Once you've recorded a loop and stopped it you have 2 choices
>> 1) Longpress to Erase
>> 2) Shortpress to Play
>>
>> Which means that the Play function won't start till the switch is
>> released.
>>
>> Far from ideal if accurate timing is needed.
>>
>> Do TC think guitarists have such poor rhythmic ability that they won't
>> notice ;-)
>>
>> andy
>>
>
>
> --
>
> ...
> http://www.zmix.net
>
> http://albumcredits.com/zmix
>
>

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That&#39;s not right, the developer can code for press of release.<div><br>=
</div><div>Sylvain<span></span><br><br>On Monday, January 21, 2013, Charles=
 Zwicky  wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
FYI: All iOS devices respond to &quot;button&quot; release rather than pres=
s.. just imagine you&#39;re filming in reverse...!<br>
<br>
At 7:27 PM +0000 1/21/13, andy butler wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
We already had some analysis of the button presses of the TC-Ditto,<br>
with it impressive functionality from a simple package.<br>
<br>
Here&#39;s something we missed.<br>
<br>
Once you&#39;ve recorded a loop and stopped it you have 2 choices<br>
1) Longpress to Erase<br>
2) Shortpress to Play<br>
<br>
Which means that the Play function won&#39;t start till the switch is relea=
sed.<br>
<br>
Far from ideal if accurate timing is needed.<br>
<br>
Do TC think guitarists have such poor rhythmic ability that they won&#39;t =
notice ;-)<br>
<br>
andy<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
<br>
...<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.zmix.net" target=3D"_blank">http://www.zmix.net</a><b=
r>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://albumcredits.com/zmix" target=3D"_blank">http://albumcred=
its.com/zmix</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>

--047d7b6d98c6978d3604d3d3c5a1--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jan 22 02:50:45 2013
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Subject: Boss Tera Delay (new, slight OT)
From: Scott Hansen <evanpeewee@gmail.com>
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wasn't sure if you saw this, not a looper per say, but an ambient delay
pedal from boss, just announced at NAMM:

http://rolandconnect.com/product.php?p=te-2

there's a couple of good vids on it already on youtube....
to me it sounds like the boss space echo pedal w/ some extra sounds in
small format.
supposedly has a "freeze" option...which i haven't heard too well in the
vids.
i thought it might be boss' version of the EH freeze w/ some extra delay
features....but i don't think so.
some have said it's more of an ambient processor pedal...a post rock pedal
(no idea what that term really means!)
discuss....
s---

--bcaec54c4e7ce6a99604d3d7a488
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wasn&#39;t sure if you saw this, not a looper per say, but an ambient delay pedal from boss, just announced at NAMM:<br><br><a href="http://rolandconnect.com/product.php?p=te-2">http://rolandconnect.com/product.php?p=te-2</a><br>
<br>there&#39;s a couple of good vids on it already on youtube....<br>to me it sounds like the boss space echo pedal w/ some extra sounds in small format.<br>supposedly has a &quot;freeze&quot; option...which i haven&#39;t heard too well in the vids.<br>
i thought it might be boss&#39; version of the EH freeze w/ some extra delay features....but i don&#39;t think so.<br>some have said it&#39;s more of an ambient processor pedal...a post rock pedal (no idea what that term really means!)<br>
discuss....<br>s---<br><br><br>

--bcaec54c4e7ce6a99604d3d7a488--

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Subject: Re: Boss Tera Delay (new, slight OT)
From: Jeff Duke <jeffloops@gmail.com>
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Looks very interesting but the video leaves a lot to be desired. I wish the
guy talking would have shut up! I can only find the one vid. It says that
it "dramatically enhancing the straight guitar tone without overwhelming
it." Does this mean it won't go to 100% wet if I want it to? We now have a
Guitar Center in my little burg, maybe I'll go and check it out. Thanks for
the heads up Scott!

Jeff

On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 9:50 PM, Scott Hansen <evanpeewee@gmail.com> wrote:

> wasn't sure if you saw this, not a looper per say, but an ambient delay
> pedal from boss, just announced at NAMM:
>
> http://rolandconnect.com/product.php?p=te-2
>
> there's a couple of good vids on it already on youtube....
> to me it sounds like the boss space echo pedal w/ some extra sounds in
> small format.
> supposedly has a "freeze" option...which i haven't heard too well in the
> vids.
> i thought it might be boss' version of the EH freeze w/ some extra delay
> features....but i don't think so.
> some have said it's more of an ambient processor pedal...a post rock pedal
> (no idea what that term really means!)
> discuss....
> s---
>
>
>

--0050450166f567b03e04d3d84415
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Looks very interesting but the video leaves a lot to be desired. I wish the=
 guy talking would have shut up! I can only find the one vid. It says that =
it &quot;dramatically enhancing the straight guitar tone without overwhelmi=
ng it.&quot; Does this mean it won&#39;t go to 100% wet if I want it to? We=
 now have a Guitar Center in my little burg, maybe I&#39;ll go and check it=
 out. Thanks for the heads up Scott!<br>
<br>Jeff<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 9:50 PM,=
 Scott Hansen <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:evanpeewee@gmail.com"=
 target=3D"_blank">evanpeewee@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc sol=
id;padding-left:1ex">
wasn&#39;t sure if you saw this, not a looper per say, but an ambient delay=
 pedal from boss, just announced at NAMM:<br><br><a href=3D"http://rolandco=
nnect.com/product.php?p=3Dte-2" target=3D"_blank">http://rolandconnect.com/=
product.php?p=3Dte-2</a><br>

<br>there&#39;s a couple of good vids on it already on youtube....<br>to me=
 it sounds like the boss space echo pedal w/ some extra sounds in small for=
mat.<br>supposedly has a &quot;freeze&quot; option...which i haven&#39;t he=
ard too well in the vids.<br>

i thought it might be boss&#39; version of the EH freeze w/ some extra dela=
y features....but i don&#39;t think so.<br>some have said it&#39;s more of =
an ambient processor pedal...a post rock pedal (no idea what that term real=
ly means!)<br>

discuss....<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>s---<br><br><=
br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br>

--0050450166f567b03e04d3d84415--

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Subject: Re: Boss Tera Delay (new, slight OT)
From: Jeff Duke <jeffloops@gmail.com>
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I found more videos :)

J


On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 9:50 PM, Scott Hansen <evanpeewee@gmail.com> wrote:

> ambient processor pedal...a post rock pedal (no idea what that term really
> means!)
> discuss....
>

--047d7b6d996496df7704d3d84c66
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1

I found more videos :)<br><br>J<br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 9:50 PM, Scott Hansen <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:evanpeewee@gmail.com" target="_blank">evanpeewee@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div id=":19u">ambient processor pedal...a post rock pedal (no idea what that term really means!)<br>
discuss....</div></blockquote></div><br><br>

--047d7b6d996496df7704d3d84c66--

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From: Sergio Girardi <simpliflying@gmail.com>
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To: <loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: About the absence of Undo in the Octatrack
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 11:11:06 +0100
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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH

THis cannot be true=2C I must be having a nightmare!
How can I be so unlucky to fall from the Boomerang to something which costs=
 the double and cannot even UNDO a damn wrong overdub?
Did they ever had a looper in their hand before projecting the pickup machi=
nes?????????????????????
Any cheap looper can Undo and a 1200 euro octatrack can undo lot of things =
but not a overdub?

Anders=2C did you find a workaround?
I try to figure out if I can use more tracks to workaround this but=2C real=
ly I am absolutely and totally indigned with Elektron.
 		 	   		  =

--_efc8cca2-2727-461f-806d-7106f413ff53_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
<head>
<style><!--
.hmmessage P
{
margin:0px=3B
padding:0px
}
body.hmmessage
{
font-size: 10pt=3B
font-family:Tahoma
}
--></style></head>
<body class=3D'hmmessage'><div dir=3D'ltr'>
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH<br><br>THi=
s cannot be true=2C I must be having a nightmare!<br>How can I be so unluck=
y to fall from the Boomerang to something which costs the double and cannot=
 even UNDO a damn wrong overdub?<br>Did they ever had a looper in their han=
d before projecting the pickup machines?????????????????????<br>Any cheap l=
ooper can Undo and a 1200 euro octatrack can undo lot of things but not a o=
verdub?<br><br>Anders=2C did you find a workaround?<br>I try to figure out =
if I can use more tracks to workaround this but=2C really I am absolutely a=
nd totally indigned with Elektron.<br> 		 	   		  </div></body>
</html>=

--_efc8cca2-2727-461f-806d-7106f413ff53_--

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Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 05:57:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Luis Angulo <louie.angulo@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: Luis Angulo <louie.angulo@yahoo.com>
Subject: Loop festivals in U.S. 2013
To: "Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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is there a website where we can see the Loop fests for this year?=0Athanx=
=0ALuis=0A=0A=A0=0Ahttp://www.myspace.com/luisangulocom
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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:ti=
mes new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div style=3D"color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,=
serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>is there a=
 website where we can see the Loop fests for this year?</span></div><div st=
yle=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: times new roman,n=
ew york,times,serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><s=
pan>thanx</span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; f=
ont-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; background-color: transpa=
rent; font-style: normal;"><span>Luis<br></span></div><div>&nbsp;</div><div=
>http://www.myspace.com/luisangulocom</div></div></body></html>
--1167350687-1435613328-1358863059=:93479--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jan 22 14:42:10 2013
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From: "Stephen Goodman" <spgoodman@earthlight.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
References: <CADRydNrW6c3khBYY0+u0vTf0vcySJbtpc1Zjwt-uPM77o6F9HQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAK7t347WBrs_9Zwhm4fSNZLGRFwyLB-cusSh5vxrjt73p2V6Zg@mail.gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Boss Tera Delay (new, slight OT)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 09:42:15 -0500
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I=E2=80=99ve asked them for some specs instead of a bunch of marketing =
speak.  Sounds intriguing.

From: Jeff Duke=20
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 10:35 PM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
Subject: Re: Boss Tera Delay (new, slight OT)

Looks very interesting but the video leaves a lot to be desired. I wish =
the guy talking would have shut up! I can only find the one vid. It says =
that it "dramatically enhancing the straight guitar tone without =
overwhelming it." Does this mean it won't go to 100% wet if I want it =
to? We now have a Guitar Center in my little burg, maybe I'll go and =
check it out. Thanks for the heads up Scott!

Jeff


On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 9:50 PM, Scott Hansen <evanpeewee@gmail.com> =
wrote:

  wasn't sure if you saw this, not a looper per say, but an ambient =
delay pedal from boss, just announced at NAMM:

  http://rolandconnect.com/product.php?p=3Dte-2

  there's a couple of good vids on it already on youtube....
  to me it sounds like the boss space echo pedal w/ some extra sounds in =
small format.
  supposedly has a "freeze" option...which i haven't heard too well in =
the vids.
  i thought it might be boss' version of the EH freeze w/ some extra =
delay features....but i don't think so.
  some have said it's more of an ambient processor pedal...a post rock =
pedal (no idea what that term really means!)
  discuss....
  s---




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<HTML><HEAD></HEAD>
<BODY dir=3Dltr>
<DIV dir=3Dltr>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV>I=E2=80=99ve asked them for some specs instead of a bunch of =
marketing speak.&nbsp;=20
Sounds intriguing.</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; =
COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: =
none">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style=3D"font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A =
title=3Djeffloops@gmail.com=20
href=3D"mailto:jeffloops@gmail.com">Jeff Duke</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Monday, January 21, 2013 10:35 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=3DLoopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@loope=
rs-delight.com</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: Boss Tera Delay (new, slight =
OT)</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; =
COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: =
none">Looks=20
very interesting but the video leaves a lot to be desired. I wish the =
guy=20
talking would have shut up! I can only find the one vid. It says that it =

"dramatically enhancing the straight guitar tone without overwhelming =
it." Does=20
this mean it won't go to 100% wet if I want it to? We now have a Guitar =
Center=20
in my little burg, maybe I'll go and check it out. Thanks for the heads =
up=20
Scott!<BR><BR>Jeff<BR><BR>
<DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 9:50 PM, Scott Hansen =
<SPAN=20
dir=3Dltr>&lt;<A href=3D"mailto:evanpeewee@gmail.com"=20
target=3D_blank>evanpeewee@gmail.com</A>&gt;</SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; =
PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"=20
class=3Dgmail_quote>wasn't sure if you saw this, not a looper per say, =
but an=20
  ambient delay pedal from boss, just announced at NAMM:<BR><BR><A=20
  href=3D"http://rolandconnect.com/product.php?p=3Dte-2"=20
  =
target=3D_blank>http://rolandconnect.com/product.php?p=3Dte-2</A><BR><BR>=
there's a=20
  couple of good vids on it already on youtube....<BR>to me it sounds =
like the=20
  boss space echo pedal w/ some extra sounds in small =
format.<BR>supposedly has=20
  a "freeze" option...which i haven't heard too well in the vids.<BR>i =
thought=20
  it might be boss' version of the EH freeze w/ some extra delay =
features....but=20
  i don't think so.<BR>some have said it's more of an ambient processor=20
  pedal...a post rock pedal (no idea what that term really=20
  means!)<BR>discuss....<SPAN class=3DHOEnZb><FONT=20
  color=3D#888888><BR>s---<BR><BR><BR></FONT></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jan 22 15:18:57 2013
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From: Philip Clevenger <phil.clevenger@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Boss Tera Delay (new, slight OT)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 07:18:53 -0800
To: Stephen Goodman <spgoodman@earthlight.net>
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What more do you need to know ? It makes you sound *awesome.*. ;)

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 22, 2013, at 6:42 AM, "Stephen Goodman" <spgoodman@earthlight.net> wr=
ote:

> I=E2=80=99ve asked them for some specs instead of a bunch of marketing spe=
ak.  Sounds intriguing.
> =20
> From: Jeff Duke
> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 10:35 PM
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Subject: Re: Boss Tera Delay (new, slight OT)
> =20
> Looks very interesting but the video leaves a lot to be desired. I wish th=
e guy talking would have shut up! I can only find the one vid. It says that i=
t "dramatically enhancing the straight guitar tone without overwhelming it."=
 Does this mean it won't go to 100% wet if I want it to? We now have a Guita=
r Center in my little burg, maybe I'll go and check it out. Thanks for the h=
eads up Scott!
>=20
> Jeff
>=20
> On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 9:50 PM, Scott Hansen <evanpeewee@gmail.com> wrote=
:
>> wasn't sure if you saw this, not a looper per say, but an ambient delay p=
edal from boss, just announced at NAMM:
>>=20
>> http://rolandconnect.com/product.php?p=3Dte-2
>>=20
>> there's a couple of good vids on it already on youtube....
>> to me it sounds like the boss space echo pedal w/ some extra sounds in sm=
all format.
>> supposedly has a "freeze" option...which i haven't heard too well in the v=
ids.
>> i thought it might be boss' version of the EH freeze w/ some extra delay f=
eatures....but i don't think so.
>> some have said it's more of an ambient processor    pedal...a post rock p=
edal (no idea what that term really means!)
>> discuss....
>> s---
>=20
> =20

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div>What more do you need to know ? It mak=
es you sound *awesome.*. ;)<br><br>Sent from my iPhone</div><div><br>On Jan 2=
2, 2013, at 6:42 AM, "Stephen Goodman" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:spgoodman@earth=
light.net">spgoodman@earthlight.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote t=
ype=3D"cite"><div>

<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<div>I=E2=80=99ve asked them for some specs instead of a bunch of marketing s=
peak.&nbsp;=20
Sounds intriguing.</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; C=
OLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none"=
>
<div style=3D"FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<div style=3D"font-color: black"><b>From:</b> <a title=3D"jeffloops@gmail.co=
m" href=3D"mailto:jeffloops@gmail.com">Jeff Duke</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 21, 2013 10:35 PM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title=3D"Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" href=3D"mai=
lto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=
</a>=20
</div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: Boss Tera Delay (new, slight OT)</div></div></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div></div>
<div style=3D"FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; C=
OLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none"=
>Looks=20
very interesting but the video leaves a lot to be desired. I wish the guy=20=

talking would have shut up! I can only find the one vid. It says that it=20
"dramatically enhancing the straight guitar tone without overwhelming it." D=
oes=20
this mean it won't go to 100% wet if I want it to? We now have a Guitar Cent=
er=20
in my little burg, maybe I'll go and check it out. Thanks for the heads up=20=

Scott!<br><br>Jeff<br><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 9:50 PM, Scott Hansen <sp=
an dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:evanpeewee@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>evanpeewee@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;=
 PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">wasn't sure if you saw this, not a=
 looper per say, but an=20
  ambient delay pedal from boss, just announced at NAMM:<br><br><a href=3D"h=
ttp://rolandconnect.com/product.php?p=3Dte-2" target=3D"_blank">http://rolan=
dconnect.com/product.php?p=3Dte-2</a><br><br>there's a=20
  couple of good vids on it already on youtube....<br>to me it sounds like t=
he=20
  boss space echo pedal w/ some extra sounds in small format.<br>supposedly h=
as=20
  a "freeze" option...which i haven't heard too well in the vids.<br>i thoug=
ht=20
  it might be boss' version of the EH freeze w/ some extra delay features...=
.but=20
  i don't think so.<br>some have said it's more of an ambient processor=20
  pedal...a post rock pedal (no idea what that term really=20
  means!)<br>discuss....<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>s=
---<br><br><br></font></span></blockquote></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div></div></div></div>
</div></blockquote></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-0AD03417-002D-40EE-9AA8-9E5118278D74--

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Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 07:26:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul Richards <paulrichard_rocks@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Boss Tera Delay (new, slight OT)
To: "spgoodman@earthlight.net" <spgoodman@earthlight.net>,
  "phil.clevenger@gmail.com" <phil.clevenger@gmail.com>
Cc: "Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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--1298779297-1088152768-1358868399=:81253
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Looks pretty cool to me except for the price. Andertons in the UK is listin=
g it at around 145 pounds. =0A=0A=0ASent from Yahoo! Mail on Android=0A=0A
--1298779297-1088152768-1358868399=:81253
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0"><tr><td valign=3D"t=
op" style=3D"font: inherit;"><p>Looks pretty cool to me except for the pric=
e. Andertons in the UK is listing it at around 145 pounds. <br><br><br></p>=
=0A<p>Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android</p>=0A</td></tr></table>            =
<div id=3D"_origMsg_">=0A                <div style=3D"font-family:arial, h=
elvetica, sans-serif:font-size:10pt">=0A                    <br />=0A      =
              <div style=3D"font-family:times new roman, new york, times, s=
erif;font-size:12pt">=0A                        <font size=3D"2" face=3D"Ta=
homa">=0A                            <hr size=3D"1">=0A                    =
        <b>=0A                                <span style=3D"font-weight:bo=
ld;">From:</span>=0A                            </b>=0A                    =
        Philip Clevenger &lt;phil.clevenger@gmail.com&gt;;                 =
           <br>=0A                            <b>=0A                       =
         <span style=3D"font-weight:bold:">To:</span>=0A                   =
         </b>=0A                            Stephen Goodman &lt;spgoodman@e=
arthlight.net&gt;;                                                     <br>=
=0A                            <b>=0A                                <span =
style=3D"font-weight:bold:">Cc:</span>=0A                            </b>=
=0A                            <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com> &lt;Lo=
opers-Delight@loopers-delight.com&gt;;                                     =
                                        <br>=0A                            =
<b>=0A                                <span style=3D"font-weight:bold:">Sub=
ject:</span>=0A                            </b>=0A                         =
   Re: Boss Tera Delay (new, slight OT)                            <br>=0A =
                           <b>=0A                                <span styl=
e=3D"font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span>=0A                            </b>=0A =
                           Tue, Jan 22, 2013 3:18:53 PM                    =
        <br>=0A                            </font>=0A                      =
      <br>=0A                            <table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpaddi=
ng=3D"0" border=3D"0">=0A                                <tbody>=0A        =
                            <tr>=0A                                        =
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"font:inherit;"><div>What more do you need to kn=
ow ? It makes you sound *awesome.*. ;)<br><br>Sent from my iPhone</div><div=
><br>On Jan 22, 2013, at 6:42 AM, &quot;Stephen Goodman&quot; &lt;<a rel=3D=
"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:spgoodman@earthlight.net" target=3D"_blank" hr=
ef=3D"javascript:return">spgoodman@earthlight.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></d=
iv><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>=0A=0A<div dir=3D"ltr">=0A<div style=3D"F=
ONT-FAMILY:'Calibri';COLOR:#000000;FONT-SIZE:12pt;">=0A<div>I=E2=80=99ve as=
ked them for some specs instead of a bunch of marketing speak.&nbsp; =0ASou=
nds intriguing.</div>=0A<div style=3D"FONT-STYLE:normal;DISPLAY:inline;FONT=
-FAMILY:'Calibri';COLOR:#000000;FONT-SIZE:small;FONT-WEIGHT:normal;TEXT-DEC=
ORATION:none;">=0A<div style=3D"FONT:10pt tahoma;">=0A<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A<=
div style=3D"BACKGROUND:#f5f5f5;">=0A<div style=3D""><b>From:</b> <a rel=3D=
"nofollow" title=3D"jeffloops@gmail.com" ymailto=3D"mailto:jeffloops@gmail.=
com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"javascript:return">Jeff Duke</a> </div>=0A<d=
iv><b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 21, 2013 10:35 PM</div>=0A<div><b>To:</b> <=
a rel=3D"nofollow" title=3D"Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" ymailto=3D=
"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"java=
script:return">Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com</a> =0A</div>=0A<div><b>=
Subject:</b> Re: Boss Tera Delay (new, slight OT)</div></div></div>=0A<div>=
&nbsp;</div></div>=0A<div style=3D"FONT-STYLE:normal;DISPLAY:inline;FONT-FA=
MILY:'Calibri';COLOR:#000000;FONT-SIZE:small;FONT-WEIGHT:normal;TEXT-DECORA=
TION:none;">Looks =0Avery interesting but the video leaves a lot to be desi=
red. I wish the guy =0Atalking would have shut up! I can only find the one =
vid. It says that it =0A&quot;dramatically enhancing the straight guitar to=
ne without overwhelming it.&quot; Does =0Athis mean it won&#39;t go to 100%=
 wet if I want it to? We now have a Guitar Center =0Ain my little burg, may=
be I&#39;ll go and check it out. Thanks for the heads up =0AScott!<br><br>J=
eff<br><br>=0A<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 9:50 PM, S=
cott Hansen <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:eva=
npeewee@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"javascript:return">evanpeewee@=
gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>=0A<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#ccc=
 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex;" class=3D"gmail_quote=
">wasn&#39;t sure if you saw this, not a looper per say, but an =0A  ambien=
t delay pedal from boss, just announced at NAMM:<br><br><a rel=3D"nofollow"=
 target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://rolandconnect.com/product.php?p=3Dte-2">h=
ttp://rolandconnect.com/product.php?p=3Dte-2</a><br><br>there&#39;s a =0A  =
couple of good vids on it already on youtube....<br>to me it sounds like th=
e =0A  boss space echo pedal w/ some extra sounds in small format.<br>suppo=
sedly has =0A  a &quot;freeze&quot; option...which i haven&#39;t heard too =
well in the vids.<br>i thought =0A  it might be boss&#39; version of the EH=
 freeze w/ some extra delay features....but =0A  i don&#39;t think so.<br>s=
ome have said it&#39;s more of an ambient processor =0A  pedal...a post roc=
k pedal (no idea what that term really =0A  means!)<br>discuss....<span cla=
ss=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>s---<br><br><br></font></span></b=
lockquote></div>=0A<div>&nbsp;</div></div></div></div>=0A</div></blockquote=
></td>=0A                                    </tr>=0A                      =
          </tbody>=0A                            </table>=0A               =
     </div>=0A                </div>=0A            </div>=0A
--1298779297-1088152768-1358868399=:81253--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jan 22 15:57:17 2013
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Subject: Re: Boss Tera Delay (new, slight OT)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 07:57:10 -0800
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OMG the perfect pedal for my "Post Rock" band !!!!

Sweet!

Bill

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jan 22 16:04:38 2013
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Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 17:04:36 +0100
From: "Buzap Buzap" <buzap@gmx.net>
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Subject: Re: TC-Ditto fatal flaw
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Hi Andy

Even if that's the case - I don't think it will be an issue, you'll get used to it easily. In fact, I have just ordered one today - I'll let you know!!

I'm dealing with this topic in Mobius Multclick-Scripting and I run into the same design issues. Some events like i.e. Record need precision, others like quantized NextLoop/Multiply or Erase Loop are more forgiving.

Basically you can trigger an event at:
- Pedal Click (foot down; i.e. Record)
- Pedal Release (foot up; i.e. Overdub)
- Pre-defined duration (i.e. 1sec; i.e. Erase Loop)

You can also combine certain events. I.e. you could say:
- Play > (short press) > Overdub
- Play > (double click)> Multiply
Even if you trigger the Overdub at the first Pedal Click (1st foot down), you can easily transition Overdub --> Multiply with the second click.

Anyway, my motivation for the Ditto Looper is to have a simple true bypass pedal in my pedalboard - I'll let you know in ca. 1,5 months!

best regards
Buzap

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jan 22 17:18:42 2013
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Subject: Quick NAMM update
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Hi All,

At this point I'm actually planning on attending NAMM only on Saturday. =
I've just gotten over a pretty epic illness and rather than going for =
all four days as I'd originally intended, I want to be kind to myself so =
am probably just going to be there on Saturday.

I'd love to catch up with anyone from the list whom might be attending =
and as before, I'll be spending a bit of time that day at Parker Guitars =
(booth # 5244) so hope to see ya there!

If I do attend another day, (like Friday perhaps) I'll let y'all know!

Hope to see ya and say hi!

Smiles,

Cara :)
---
View my Online Portfolio at:

http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn

Follow me on Twitter!

https://twitter.com/ModelCara

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jan 22 17:42:31 2013
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Buzap Buzap wrote:
> Hi Andy
> 
> I have just ordered one today - I'll let you know!!
> 

would you consider writing a review for livelooping.org?



andy

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Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 19:31:18 +0000 (GMT)
From: Tristan Burfield <tristan_burfield@yahoo.co.uk>
Reply-To: Tristan Burfield <tristan_burfield@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Tristan Burfield: Live Loop Vol. 1 + Live Loop Vol. 2 out now on Rapturous Indifference
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Tristan Burfield: Live Loop Vol. 1 + Live Loop Vol. 2 out now on Rapturous =
Indifference=0A=0ALive Loop Vol. 1=0A=0AA re-release of a classic artifact =
recorded in Bristol at my studio space in Easton in 2005, these 3 epic trac=
ks are run throughs ofsome of my very first live sets. All tracks explore l=
ive looping and sampling in a live context, creating a glitchy Fennesz styl=
e ambience through a fusion of foot activated loops and firing off samples =
on the fly. Fluid and ethereal these recordings are living proof of a buddi=
ng talent and an antidote those who wrongly believe that digital music lack=
s organic soul. CD decorated with paper sticky label. Clear plastic sleeve =
with customized paper insert.=A0=0A=0ASample track from 'Live Loop Vol.1':=
=0A=0Ahttp://soundcloud.com/tristan_burfield/tristan-burfield-live-loop-2=
=0A=0ALive Loop Vol. 2=0A=0AReleased in tandem with Live Loop Vol. 1, this =
2012 recording takes live looping out of the concert space and back into th=
e studio using a single guitar altered via FX as its sound source. This is =
cinematic, fluid and ethereal music that evokes the somber drone of Earth a=
nd the melancholy of Loren Connors. CD decorated with paper sticky label. C=
lear plastic sleeve with customized paper insert.=0A=0ASample track from 'L=
ive Loop vol. 2':=0A=0Ahttps://soundcloud.com/#tristan_burfield/tristan-bur=
field-live-loop-1=0A=0AArtwork here:=0A=0Ahttp://www.tristanburfield.com/Ma=
in/live_loop.jpg=0A=0AAvailable to buy via PayPal: tristan_burfield@yahoo.c=
o.uk.3 pounds 90p (UK) 4 pounds 90p (Europe) 5 pounds 90p (Worldwide). See=
=A0http://www.tristanburfield.com/=A0for further details.=0A
---98669616-1452071396-1358883078=:7494
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<html><body><div style=3D"color:; background-color:; font-family:arial, hel=
vetica, sans-serif;font-size:13px"><div><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" st=
yle=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdan=
a, arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18px; ">Tristan Burfield: Live Loop Vol.=
 1 + Live Loop Vol. 2 out now on Rapturous Indifference<br><br>Live Loop Vo=
l. 1<br><br>A re-release of a classic artifact recorded in Bristol at my st=
udio space in Easton in 2005, these 3 epic tracks are run throughs of<span =
class=3D"text_exposed_show" style=3D"display: inline; ">some of my very fir=
st live sets. All tracks explore live looping and sampling in a live contex=
t, creating a glitchy Fennesz style ambience through a fusion of foot activ=
ated loops and firing off samples on the fly. Fluid and ethereal these reco=
rdings are living proof of a budding talent and an antidote those who wrong=
ly believe that digital music lacks organic soul. CD decorated with paper
 sticky label. Clear plastic sleeve with customized paper insert.&nbsp;<br>=
<br>Sample track from 'Live Loop Vol.1':<br><br><a href=3D"http://soundclou=
d.com/tristan_burfield/tristan-burfield-live-loop-2" target=3D"_blank" rel=
=3D"nofollow nofollow" style=3D"cursor: pointer; color: rgb(59, 89, 152); t=
ext-decoration: none; ">http://soundcloud.com/tristan_burfield/tristan-burf=
ield-live-loop-2</a><br><br>Live Loop Vol. 2<br><br>Released in tandem with=
 Live Loop Vol. 1, this 2012 recording takes live looping out of the concer=
t space and back into the studio using a single guitar altered via FX as it=
s sound source. This is cinematic, fluid and ethereal music that evokes the=
 somber drone of Earth and the melancholy of Loren Connors. CD decorated wi=
th paper sticky label. Clear plastic sleeve with customized paper insert.<b=
r><br>Sample track from 'Live Loop vol. 2':<br><br><a href=3D"https://sound=
cloud.com/#tristan_burfield/tristan-burfield-live-loop-1" target=3D"_blank"
 rel=3D"nofollow nofollow" style=3D"cursor: pointer; color: rgb(59, 89, 152=
); text-decoration: none; ">https://soundcloud.com/#tristan_burfield/trista=
n-burfield-live-loop-1</a><br><br>Artwork here:<br><br><a href=3D"http://ww=
w.tristanburfield.com/Main/live_loop.jpg" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow=
 nofollow" style=3D"cursor: pointer; color: rgb(59, 89, 152); text-decorati=
on: none; ">http://www.tristanburfield.com/Main/live_loop.jpg</a><br><br>Av=
ailable to buy via PayPal: tristan_burfield@yahoo.co.uk.3 pounds 90p (UK) 4=
 pounds 90p (Europe) 5 pounds 90p (Worldwide). See&nbsp;<a href=3D"http://w=
ww.facebook.com/l.php?u=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.tristanburfield.com%2F&amp;h=3DT=
AQGaPuTY&amp;s=3D1" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow nofollow" style=3D"cu=
rsor: pointer; color: rgb(59, 89, 152); text-decoration: none; ">http://www=
.tristanburfield.com/</a>&nbsp;for further details.</span></span></div></di=
v></body></html>
---98669616-1452071396-1358883078=:7494--

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From: Sergio Girardi <simpliflying@gmail.com>
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Subject: FW: LP2 to Germany
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Ok=2C given the absence of UNDO/REDO in the Octatrack=2C I have decided to =
buy the LP2. I choose it because it seems the best battery operated looper =
and I was anyway needing a battery operated looper.
Let me know!
Sergio

From: donsergio2011@gmail.com
To: loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: RE: LP2 to Germany
Date: Sat=2C 19 Jan 2013 06:01:54 +0100




I'm interested! the octatrack is quite disappointing as a looper.
I'm poor in this moment=2C the arbeits agentur is taking care of me=2C but =
according to the price=2C I may be in.
But I must sell my boomerang3!
Can you let me know the final price?
I live in Muenster by the way.

From: krrrs@gmx.de
Subject: Re: LP2 to Germany
Date: Fri=2C 18 Jan 2013 15:02:35 +0100
To: loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com

Anyone still wants to place a bulk order?According to Bob=2C we could get a=
 slight discount=2C if we do.
Chris

Am 23.11.2012 um 17:42 schrieb Antony Hequet:I would be curious=2C I am at =
the Funkhaus in Nalepastrasse. Have a studio there=3B would you like to com=
e over some time?
        De : Pawel Janowski <pjanowski@gmail.com>
 =C0 : "Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delig=
ht.com>=20
 Envoy=E9 le : Vendredi 23 novembre 2012 16h23
 Objet : Re: LP2 to
 Germany
  =20
I am probably one of the few people in Germany with one=2C so if any of you=
 would like to try one in Berlin=2C let me know.
Pawel

On 23 November 2012 15:47=2C Sergio Girardi <simpliflying@gmail.com> wrote:





might toonot much money now but I will need a battery operated looper in th=
e future and if I can get this for a price I can pay=2C deal. Or I will hav=
e to sadly go for the Vox 2 loops one...
Let me know.

SergioDate: Fri=2C 23 Nov 2012 13:11:11 +0000
From: antony.hequet@yahoo.fr
Subject: Re: LP2 to Germany
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com


might do
  =20
     De : jrploopers <jrploopers@kliklak.net>
 =C0 : Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20

 Envoy=E9 le : Vendredi 23 novembre 2012 13h38
 Objet : LP2 to Germany
  =20
I=B4d like to buy a Looperlative LP2 myself and wonder=2C if it makes sense=
 to place a bulk order to Germany in case anyone else on this list living h=
ere wants one=2C too.
=20
?

jayrope
---
kliklak.net
aircushionfinish.com
prinzenallee.com




   		 	   		 =20




   =20
 		 	   		   		 	   		  =

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<body class=3D'hmmessage'><div dir=3D'ltr'>
Ok=2C given the absence of UNDO/REDO in the Octatrack=2C I have decided to =
buy the LP2. I choose it because it seems the best battery operated looper =
and I was anyway needing a battery operated looper.<br>Let me know!<br>Serg=
io<br><br><div><div id=3D"SkyDrivePlaceholder"></div><hr id=3D"stopSpelling=
">From: donsergio2011@gmail.com<br>To: loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com<=
br>Subject: RE: LP2 to Germany<br>Date: Sat=2C 19 Jan 2013 06:01:54 +0100<b=
r><br>

<style><!--
.ExternalClass .ecxhmmessage P
{padding:0px=3B}
.ExternalClass body.ecxhmmessage
{font-size:10pt=3Bfont-family:Tahoma=3B}

--></style>
<div dir=3D"ltr">I'm interested! the octatrack is quite disappointing as a =
looper.<br>I'm poor in this moment=2C the arbeits agentur is taking care of=
 me=2C but according to the price=2C I may be in.<br>But I must sell my boo=
merang3!<br>Can you let me know the final price?<br>I live in Muenster by t=
he way.<br><br><hr>From: krrrs@gmx.de<br>Subject: Re: LP2 to Germany<br>Dat=
e: Fri=2C 18 Jan 2013 15:02:35 +0100<br>To: loopers-Delight@loopers-delight=
.com<br><br><div>Anyone still wants to place a bulk order?</div><div>Accord=
ing to Bob=2C we could get a slight discount=2C if we do.</div><div><br></d=
iv><div>Chris</div><div><br></div><br><div><div>Am 23.11.2012 um 17:42 schr=
ieb Antony Hequet:</div><br class=3D"ecxApple-interchange-newline"><blockqu=
ote><div><div style=3D"color:#000=3Bbackground-color:#fff=3Bfont-family:Cou=
rier New=2C courier=2C monaco=2C monospace=2C sans-serif=3Bfont-size:14pt">=
<div><span>I would be curious=2C I am at the Funkhaus in Nalepastrasse. Hav=
e a studio there=3B would you like to come over some time?</span></div><div=
><br></div>  <div style=3D"font-size:14pt=3Bfont-family:'Courier New'=2C co=
urier=2C monaco=2C monospace=2C sans-serif"> <div style=3D"font-size:12pt=
=3Bfont-family:'times new roman'=2C 'new york'=2C times=2C serif"> <div dir=
=3D"ltr"> <font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"> <hr size=3D"1">  <b><span style=
=3D"font-weight:bold">De&nbsp=3B:</span></b> Pawel Janowski &lt=3B<a href=
=3D"mailto:pjanowski@gmail.com">pjanowski@gmail.com</a>&gt=3B<br> <b><span =
style=3D"font-weight:bold">=C0&nbsp=3B:</span></b> "<a href=3D"mailto:Loope=
rs-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com</a>" &l=
t=3B<a href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@=
loopers-delight.com</a>&gt=3B <br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Envo=
y=E9 le :</span></b> Vendredi 23 novembre 2012 16h23<br> <b><span style=3D"=
font-weight:bold">Objet&nbsp=3B:</span></b> Re: LP2 to
 Germany<br> </font> </div> <br><div id=3D"ecxyiv1862129011">I am probably =
one of the few people in Germany with one=2C so if any of you would like to=
 try one in Berlin=2C let me know.<div><br></div><div>Pawel</div><div class=
=3D"ecxyiv1862129011gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"ecxyiv1862129011gmai=
l_quote">On 23 November 2012 15:47=2C Sergio Girardi <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt=
=3B<a rel=3D"nofollow" href=3D"mailto:simpliflying@gmail.com">simpliflying@=
gmail.com</a>&gt=3B</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"ecxyiv1862129011gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left:1px =
#ccc solid=3Bpadding-left:1ex">


<div><div dir=3D"ltr">
might too<div>not much money now but I will need a battery operated looper =
in the future and if I can get this for a price I can pay=2C deal. Or I wil=
l have to sadly go for the Vox 2 loops one...<br>Let me know.</div><div>
<br></div><div>Sergio</div><div><div><div></div><hr>Date: Fri=2C 23 Nov 201=
2 13:11:11 +0000<br>From: <a rel=3D"nofollow" href=3D"mailto:antony.hequet@=
yahoo.fr">antony.hequet@yahoo.fr</a><br>Subject: Re: LP2 to Germany<br>To: =
<a rel=3D"nofollow" href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loo=
pers-Delight@loopers-delight.com</a><div>
<div class=3D"ecxyiv1862129011h5"><br><br><div style=3D"font-size:10pt=3Bfo=
nt-family:'Courier New'=2C courier=2C monaco=2C monospace=2C sans-serif">mi=
ght do</div><br>  <div style=3D"font-size:10pt=3Bfont-family:'Courier New'=
=2C courier=2C monaco=2C monospace=2C sans-serif"> <div style=3D"font-size:=
12pt=3Bfont-family:'times new roman'=2C 'new york'=2C times=2C serif">
 <div dir=3D"ltr"> <font face=3D"Arial"> <hr size=3D"1">  <b><span style=3D=
"font-weight:bold">De&nbsp=3B:</span></b> jrploopers &lt=3B<a rel=3D"nofoll=
ow" href=3D"mailto:jrploopers@kliklak.net">jrploopers@kliklak.net</a>&gt=3B=
<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">=C0&nbsp=3B:</span></b> <a rel=3D"=
nofollow" href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delig=
ht@loopers-delight.com</a> <br>
 <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Envoy=E9 le :</span></b> Vendredi 23 n=
ovembre 2012 13h38<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Objet&nbsp=3B:</=
span></b> LP2 to Germany<br> </font> </div> <br>I=B4d like to buy a Looperl=
ative LP2 myself and wonder=2C if it makes sense to place a bulk order to G=
ermany in case anyone else on this list living here wants one=2C too.
 <br>?<br><br>jayrope<br>---<br><a rel=3D"nofollow" href=3D"http://kliklak.=
net/" target=3D"_blank">kliklak.net</a><br><a rel=3D"nofollow" href=3D"http=
://aircushionfinish.com/" target=3D"_blank">aircushionfinish.com</a><br><a =
rel=3D"nofollow" href=3D"http://prinzenallee.com/" target=3D"_blank">prinze=
nallee.com</a><br>
<br><br><br> </div> </div></div></div></div></div> 		 	   		  </div></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>
</div><br><br> </div> </div>  </div></div></blockquote></div><br> 		 	   		=
  </div></div> 		 	   		  </div></body>
</html>=

--_f4303048-45af-4299-ace2-cee8f20c057f_--

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Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 14:00:25 -0800
Message-ID: <CAOEEJhJfyps=qTH=21WpkNDrcxQDVQaT9JHjL5Cm9+iOqXKZKg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: About the absence of Undo in the Octatrack
From: Todd Elliott <toddbert@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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--14dae9340bcd792b1404d3e7b4fd
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

An Octatrack is not a looper. It's a sampler which can do a few simple
looping tricks.

T

On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 2:11 AM, Sergio Girardi <simpliflying@gmail.com>wrote:

>  AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH
>
> THis cannot be true, I must be having a nightmare!
> How can I be so unlucky to fall from the Boomerang to something which
> costs the double and cannot even UNDO a damn wrong overdub?
> Did they ever had a looper in their hand before projecting the pickup
> machines?????????????????????
> Any cheap looper can Undo and a 1200 euro octatrack can undo lot of things
> but not a overdub?
>
> Anders, did you find a workaround?
> I try to figure out if I can use more tracks to workaround this but,
> really I am absolutely and totally indigned with Elektron.
>



-- 
http://toaster.bandcamp.com

--14dae9340bcd792b1404d3e7b4fd
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

An Octatrack is not a looper. It&#39;s a sampler which can do a few simple =
looping tricks.=A0<div><br></div><div>T<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">O=
n Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 2:11 AM, Sergio Girardi <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:simpliflying@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">simpliflying@gmail.co=
m</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">


<div><div dir=3D"ltr">
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH<br><br>THi=
s cannot be true, I must be having a nightmare!<br>How can I be so unlucky =
to fall from the Boomerang to something which costs the double and cannot e=
ven UNDO a damn wrong overdub?<br>
Did they ever had a looper in their hand before projecting the pickup machi=
nes?????????????????????<br>Any cheap looper can Undo and a 1200 euro octat=
rack can undo lot of things but not a overdub?<br><br>Anders, did you find =
a workaround?<br>
I try to figure out if I can use more tracks to workaround this but, really=
 I am absolutely and totally indigned with Elektron.<br> 		 	   		  </div><=
/div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><a href=3D"h=
ttp://toaster.bandcamp.com" target=3D"_blank">http://toaster.bandcamp.com</=
a>
</div>

--14dae9340bcd792b1404d3e7b4fd--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jan 22 23:11:58 2013
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From: Sergio Girardi <simpliflying@gmail.com>
Sender: <satyam.shivam.sundaram@hotmail.com>
To: <loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: RE: About the absence of Undo in the Octatrack
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 00:11:57 +0100
Importance: Normal
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 <CAOEEJhJfyps=qTH=21WpkNDrcxQDVQaT9JHjL5Cm9+iOqXKZKg@mail.gmail.com>
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--_c73d4a6f-760b-41cf-a571-7a571aa18e88_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Pag 2 of the manual=2C suggested uses of the Octatrack: the first suggested=
 use is LOOPER DEVICE.
So=2C do not tell me this please.
As also I would like to shut up (sorry=2C I am angry=2C normally I am nicer=
) those who tell me "you should have read the manual before buying it=2C an=
d would have noticed the absence of reference to undo.
200 pages of manual damn it! Are you kidding me? I still didnt read it all =
after months!
Anyway.
I have decided to buy a proper looper battery operated.
I have read the thread best battery operated looper=2C but no comparison ma=
de=2C just names.
The dl4 can be nice because I need a delay also but one loop is no deal.
The lil is ok but limited.
The lp2 can undo but not redo=2C uff...

Date: Tue=2C 22 Jan 2013 14:00:25 -0800
Subject: Re: About the absence of Undo in the Octatrack
From: toddbert@gmail.com
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com

An Octatrack is not a looper. It's a sampler which can do a few simple loop=
ing tricks.=20
T

On Tue=2C Jan 22=2C 2013 at 2:11 AM=2C Sergio Girardi <simpliflying@gmail.c=
om> wrote:





AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH

THis cannot be true=2C I must be having a nightmare!
How can I be so unlucky to fall from the Boomerang to something which costs=
 the double and cannot even UNDO a damn wrong overdub?

Did they ever had a looper in their hand before projecting the pickup machi=
nes?????????????????????
Any cheap looper can Undo and a 1200 euro octatrack can undo lot of things =
but not a overdub?

Anders=2C did you find a workaround?

I try to figure out if I can use more tracks to workaround this but=2C real=
ly I am absolutely and totally indigned with Elektron.
 		 	   		 =20


--=20
http://toaster.bandcamp.com
 		 	   		  =

--_c73d4a6f-760b-41cf-a571-7a571aa18e88_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
<head>
<style><!--
.hmmessage P
{
margin:0px=3B
padding:0px
}
body.hmmessage
{
font-size: 10pt=3B
font-family:Tahoma
}
--></style></head>
<body class=3D'hmmessage'><div dir=3D'ltr'>
Pag 2 of the manual=2C suggested uses of the Octatrack: the first suggested=
 use is LOOPER DEVICE.<br>So=2C do not tell me this please.<br>As also I wo=
uld like to shut up (sorry=2C I am angry=2C normally I am nicer) those who =
tell me "you should have read the manual before buying it=2C and would have=
 noticed the absence of reference to undo.<br>200 pages of manual damn it! =
Are you kidding me? I still didnt read it all after months!<br>Anyway.<br>I=
 have decided to buy a proper looper battery operated.<br>I have read the t=
hread best battery operated looper=2C but no comparison made=2C just names.=
<br>The dl4 can be nice because I need a delay also but one loop is no deal=
.<br>The lil is ok but limited.<br>The lp2 can undo but not redo=2C uff...<=
br><br><div><div id=3D"SkyDrivePlaceholder"></div><hr id=3D"stopSpelling">D=
ate: Tue=2C 22 Jan 2013 14:00:25 -0800<br>Subject: Re: About the absence of=
 Undo in the Octatrack<br>From: toddbert@gmail.com<br>To: Loopers-Delight@l=
oopers-delight.com<br><br>An Octatrack is not a looper. It's a sampler whic=
h can do a few simple looping tricks.&nbsp=3B<div><br></div><div>T<br><br><=
div class=3D"ecxgmail_quote">On Tue=2C Jan 22=2C 2013 at 2:11 AM=2C Sergio =
Girardi <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt=3B<a href=3D"mailto:simpliflying@gmail.com">s=
impliflying@gmail.com</a>&gt=3B</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"ecxgmail_quote" style=3D"border-left:1px #ccc solid=3B=
padding-left:1ex">


<div><div dir=3D"ltr">
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH<br><br>THi=
s cannot be true=2C I must be having a nightmare!<br>How can I be so unluck=
y to fall from the Boomerang to something which costs the double and cannot=
 even UNDO a damn wrong overdub?<br>
Did they ever had a looper in their hand before projecting the pickup machi=
nes?????????????????????<br>Any cheap looper can Undo and a 1200 euro octat=
rack can undo lot of things but not a overdub?<br><br>Anders=2C did you fin=
d a workaround?<br>
I try to figure out if I can use more tracks to workaround this but=2C real=
ly I am absolutely and totally indigned with Elektron.<br> 		 	   		  </div=
></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><a href=3D"h=
ttp://toaster.bandcamp.com" target=3D"_blank">http://toaster.bandcamp.com</=
a>
</div></div> 		 	   		  </div></body>
</html>=

--_c73d4a6f-760b-41cf-a571-7a571aa18e88_--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jan 22 23:25:46 2013
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Message-ID: <CAOEEJhKfnaFnv_Rv8RQv_Bs0Xo1nSuDemv7cQrKm4miR4TptgQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: About the absence of Undo in the Octatrack
From: Todd Elliott <toddbert@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=14dae934084dab414e04d3e8e5a0
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--14dae934084dab414e04d3e8e5a0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

If you have specific needs in a product, it's best to research it to see
that the product fulfills those needs. Shelling out that much dough before
figuring that out is a recipe for disaster, and complaining that you failed
to read the manual does not help your case. There's lots of helpful folk on
this list, and at electron-forums, and in many other places that would have
helped you out.

T

On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 3:11 PM, Sergio Girardi <simpliflying@gmail.com>wrote:

>  Pag 2 of the manual, suggested uses of the Octatrack: the first suggested
> use is LOOPER DEVICE.
> So, do not tell me this please.
> As also I would like to shut up (sorry, I am angry, normally I am nicer)
> those who tell me "you should have read the manual before buying it, and
> would have noticed the absence of reference to undo.
> 200 pages of manual damn it! Are you kidding me? I still didnt read it all
> after months!
> Anyway.
> I have decided to buy a proper looper battery operated.
> I have read the thread best battery operated looper, but no comparison
> made, just names.
> The dl4 can be nice because I need a delay also but one loop is no deal.
> The lil is ok but limited.
> The lp2 can undo but not redo, uff...
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 14:00:25 -0800
> Subject: Re: About the absence of Undo in the Octatrack
> From: toddbert@gmail.com
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>
>
> An Octatrack is not a looper. It's a sampler which can do a few simple
> looping tricks.
>
> T
>
> On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 2:11 AM, Sergio Girardi <simpliflying@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>  AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH
>
> THis cannot be true, I must be having a nightmare!
> How can I be so unlucky to fall from the Boomerang to something which
> costs the double and cannot even UNDO a damn wrong overdub?
> Did they ever had a looper in their hand before projecting the pickup
> machines?????????????????????
> Any cheap looper can Undo and a 1200 euro octatrack can undo lot of things
> but not a overdub?
>
> Anders, did you find a workaround?
> I try to figure out if I can use more tracks to workaround this but,
> really I am absolutely and totally indigned with Elektron.
>
>
>
>
> --
> http://toaster.bandcamp.com
>



-- 
http://toaster.bandcamp.com

--14dae934084dab414e04d3e8e5a0
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

If you have specific needs in a product, it&#39;s best to research it to se=
e that the product fulfills those needs. Shelling out that much dough befor=
e figuring that out is a recipe for disaster, and complaining that you fail=
ed to read the manual does not help your case. There&#39;s lots of helpful =
folk on this list, and at electron-forums, and in many other places that wo=
uld have helped you out.=A0<div>
<br></div><div>T<br><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 22, 201=
3 at 3:11 PM, Sergio Girardi <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:simpli=
flying@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">simpliflying@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> w=
rote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">


<div><div dir=3D"ltr">
Pag 2 of the manual, suggested uses of the Octatrack: the first suggested u=
se is LOOPER DEVICE.<br>So, do not tell me this please.<br>As also I would =
like to shut up (sorry, I am angry, normally I am nicer) those who tell me =
&quot;you should have read the manual before buying it, and would have noti=
ced the absence of reference to undo.<br>
200 pages of manual damn it! Are you kidding me? I still didnt read it all =
after months!<br>Anyway.<br>I have decided to buy a proper looper battery o=
perated.<br>I have read the thread best battery operated looper, but no com=
parison made, just names.<br>
The dl4 can be nice because I need a delay also but one loop is no deal.<br=
>The lil is ok but limited.<br>The lp2 can undo but not redo, uff...<br><br=
><div><div></div><hr>Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 14:00:25 -0800<br>Subject: Re: =
About the absence of Undo in the Octatrack<br>
From: <a href=3D"mailto:toddbert@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">toddbert@gmai=
l.com</a><br>To: <a href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com</a><div><div class=3D"h5=
"><br>
<br>An Octatrack is not a looper. It&#39;s a sampler which can do a few sim=
ple looping tricks.=A0<div><br></div><div>T<br><br><div>On Tue, Jan 22, 201=
3 at 2:11 AM, Sergio Girardi <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:simpli=
flying@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">simpliflying@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> w=
rote:<br>

<blockquote style=3D"border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">


<div><div dir=3D"ltr">
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH<br><br>THi=
s cannot be true, I must be having a nightmare!<br>How can I be so unlucky =
to fall from the Boomerang to something which costs the double and cannot e=
ven UNDO a damn wrong overdub?<br>

Did they ever had a looper in their hand before projecting the pickup machi=
nes?????????????????????<br>Any cheap looper can Undo and a 1200 euro octat=
rack can undo lot of things but not a overdub?<br><br>Anders, did you find =
a workaround?<br>

I try to figure out if I can use more tracks to workaround this but, really=
 I am absolutely and totally indigned with Elektron.<br> 		 	   		  </div><=
/div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><a href=3D"h=
ttp://toaster.bandcamp.com" target=3D"_blank">http://toaster.bandcamp.com</=
a>
</div></div></div></div> 		 	   		  </div></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><a href=3D"h=
ttp://toaster.bandcamp.com" target=3D"_blank">http://toaster.bandcamp.com</=
a>
</div></div>

--14dae934084dab414e04d3e8e5a0--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jan 22 23:44:43 2013
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From: Sergio Girardi <simpliflying@gmail.com>
Sender: <satyam.shivam.sundaram@hotmail.com>
To: <loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: RE: About the absence of Undo in the Octatrack
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 00:44:37 +0100
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Tod=2C I did write a lot=2C here=2C and on Elektron forums=2C BEFORE.=20
I even was writing with Chapelier Fou=2C do you know him? He was selling hi=
s OT on Elektron forums.
He just told me not to buy the OT because Ableton was better=2C but he told=
 me it was because the OT is too linear for him=2C he needs to build a song=
 in a way that at the end he can recall a loop he played at the beginning (=
which he can with Ableton and Launchpad).
So=2C NOBODY ever told me "hey=2C careful=2C there is no undo"=2C and since=
rely=2C the Undo is such a damn BASIC thing in a looper (redo for me too=2C=
 so I do not understand why the LP2 has got no redo=2C I would prefer ONE l=
ayer of undo plus redo rather than 30 layers of undo and no redo. the thing=
 I most liked on the boomerang was the undo/redo=2C you can correct a mista=
ke with the undo=2C or you can use the last overdub as if it was a separate=
 loop=2C muting and unmuting it with undo/redo=2C which is SUPER COOL).
ANd I did not ask=2C because I would have never ever ever ever expected tha=
t a looper can have no undo=2C not something which costs 1200 euro!
But wathever.
I am loosing energy=2C smile and time.
I will probably give up=2C since I started all this music thing=2C I had ju=
st problems.
I rather do carpenteer and forget about art=2C art sucks=2C as does my fuck=
ing italian character.
And OT too!

Date: Tue=2C 22 Jan 2013 15:25:45 -0800
Subject: Re: About the absence of Undo in the Octatrack
From: toddbert@gmail.com
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com

If you have specific needs in a product=2C it's best to research it to see =
that the product fulfills those needs. Shelling out that much dough before =
figuring that out is a recipe for disaster=2C and complaining that you fail=
ed to read the manual does not help your case. There's lots of helpful folk=
 on this list=2C and at electron-forums=2C and in many other places that wo=
uld have helped you out.=20

T

On Tue=2C Jan 22=2C 2013 at 3:11 PM=2C Sergio Girardi <simpliflying@gmail.c=
om> wrote:





Pag 2 of the manual=2C suggested uses of the Octatrack: the first suggested=
 use is LOOPER DEVICE.
So=2C do not tell me this please.
As also I would like to shut up (sorry=2C I am angry=2C normally I am nicer=
) those who tell me "you should have read the manual before buying it=2C an=
d would have noticed the absence of reference to undo.

200 pages of manual damn it! Are you kidding me? I still didnt read it all =
after months!
Anyway.
I have decided to buy a proper looper battery operated.
I have read the thread best battery operated looper=2C but no comparison ma=
de=2C just names.

The dl4 can be nice because I need a delay also but one loop is no deal.
The lil is ok but limited.
The lp2 can undo but not redo=2C uff...

Date: Tue=2C 22 Jan 2013 14:00:25 -0800
Subject: Re: About the absence of Undo in the Octatrack

From: toddbert@gmail.com
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com


An Octatrack is not a looper. It's a sampler which can do a few simple loop=
ing tricks.=20
T

On Tue=2C Jan 22=2C 2013 at 2:11 AM=2C Sergio Girardi <simpliflying@gmail.c=
om> wrote:






AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH

THis cannot be true=2C I must be having a nightmare!
How can I be so unlucky to fall from the Boomerang to something which costs=
 the double and cannot even UNDO a damn wrong overdub?


Did they ever had a looper in their hand before projecting the pickup machi=
nes?????????????????????
Any cheap looper can Undo and a 1200 euro octatrack can undo lot of things =
but not a overdub?

Anders=2C did you find a workaround?


I try to figure out if I can use more tracks to workaround this but=2C real=
ly I am absolutely and totally indigned with Elektron.
 		 	   		 =20


--=20
http://toaster.bandcamp.com
 		 	   		 =20


--=20
http://toaster.bandcamp.com
 		 	   		  =

--_0ee0d492-4f9a-4baf-a0cc-82636baa279b_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
<head>
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{
margin:0px=3B
padding:0px
}
body.hmmessage
{
font-size: 10pt=3B
font-family:Tahoma
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--></style></head>
<body class=3D'hmmessage'><div dir=3D'ltr'>
Tod=2C I did write a lot=2C here=2C and on Elektron forums=2C BEFORE. <br>I=
 even was writing with Chapelier Fou=2C do you know him? He was selling his=
 OT on Elektron forums.<br>He just told me not to buy the OT because Ableto=
n was better=2C but he told me it was because the OT is too linear for him=
=2C he needs to build a song in a way that at the end he can recall a loop =
he played at the beginning (which he can with Ableton and Launchpad).<br>So=
=2C NOBODY ever told me "hey=2C careful=2C there is no undo"=2C and sincere=
ly=2C the Undo is such a damn BASIC thing in a looper (redo for me too=2C s=
o I do not understand why the LP2 has got no redo=2C I would prefer ONE lay=
er of undo plus redo rather than 30 layers of undo and no redo. the thing I=
 most liked on the boomerang was the undo/redo=2C you can correct a mistake=
 with the undo=2C or you can use the last overdub as if it was a separate l=
oop=2C muting and unmuting it with undo/redo=2C which is SUPER COOL).<br>AN=
d I did not ask=2C because I would have never ever ever ever expected that =
a looper can have no undo=2C not something which costs 1200 euro!<br>But wa=
thever.<br>I am loosing energy=2C smile and time.<br>I will probably give u=
p=2C since I started all this music thing=2C I had just problems.<br>I rath=
er do carpenteer and forget about art=2C art sucks=2C as does my fucking it=
alian character.<br>And OT too!<br><br><div><div id=3D"SkyDrivePlaceholder"=
></div><hr id=3D"stopSpelling">Date: Tue=2C 22 Jan 2013 15:25:45 -0800<br>S=
ubject: Re: About the absence of Undo in the Octatrack<br>From: toddbert@gm=
ail.com<br>To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com<br><br>If you have speci=
fic needs in a product=2C it's best to research it to see that the product =
fulfills those needs. Shelling out that much dough before figuring that out=
 is a recipe for disaster=2C and complaining that you failed to read the ma=
nual does not help your case. There's lots of helpful folk on this list=2C =
and at electron-forums=2C and in many other places that would have helped y=
ou out.&nbsp=3B<div>
<br></div><div>T<br><div><br><div class=3D"ecxgmail_quote">On Tue=2C Jan 22=
=2C 2013 at 3:11 PM=2C Sergio Girardi <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt=3B<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:simpliflying@gmail.com">simpliflying@gmail.com</a>&gt=3B</span> wrote:=
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"ecxgmail_quote" style=3D"border-left:1px #ccc solid=3B=
padding-left:1ex">


<div><div dir=3D"ltr">
Pag 2 of the manual=2C suggested uses of the Octatrack: the first suggested=
 use is LOOPER DEVICE.<br>So=2C do not tell me this please.<br>As also I wo=
uld like to shut up (sorry=2C I am angry=2C normally I am nicer) those who =
tell me "you should have read the manual before buying it=2C and would have=
 noticed the absence of reference to undo.<br>
200 pages of manual damn it! Are you kidding me? I still didnt read it all =
after months!<br>Anyway.<br>I have decided to buy a proper looper battery o=
perated.<br>I have read the thread best battery operated looper=2C but no c=
omparison made=2C just names.<br>
The dl4 can be nice because I need a delay also but one loop is no deal.<br=
>The lil is ok but limited.<br>The lp2 can undo but not redo=2C uff...<br><=
br><div><div></div><hr>Date: Tue=2C 22 Jan 2013 14:00:25 -0800<br>Subject: =
Re: About the absence of Undo in the Octatrack<br>
From: <a href=3D"mailto:toddbert@gmail.com">toddbert@gmail.com</a><br>To: <=
a href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@loope=
rs-delight.com</a><div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<br>An Octatrack is not a looper. It's a sampler which can do a few simple =
looping tricks.&nbsp=3B<div><br></div><div>T<br><br><div>On Tue=2C Jan 22=
=2C 2013 at 2:11 AM=2C Sergio Girardi <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt=3B<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:simpliflying@gmail.com">simpliflying@gmail.com</a>&gt=3B</span> wrote:=
<br>

<blockquote style=3D"border-left:1px #ccc solid=3Bpadding-left:1ex">


<div><div dir=3D"ltr">
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH<br><br>THi=
s cannot be true=2C I must be having a nightmare!<br>How can I be so unluck=
y to fall from the Boomerang to something which costs the double and cannot=
 even UNDO a damn wrong overdub?<br>

Did they ever had a looper in their hand before projecting the pickup machi=
nes?????????????????????<br>Any cheap looper can Undo and a 1200 euro octat=
rack can undo lot of things but not a overdub?<br><br>Anders=2C did you fin=
d a workaround?<br>

I try to figure out if I can use more tracks to workaround this but=2C real=
ly I am absolutely and totally indigned with Elektron.<br> 		 	   		  </div=
></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><a href=3D"h=
ttp://toaster.bandcamp.com" target=3D"_blank">http://toaster.bandcamp.com</=
a>
</div></div></div></div> 		 	   		  </div></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><a href=3D"h=
ttp://toaster.bandcamp.com" target=3D"_blank">http://toaster.bandcamp.com</=
a>
</div></div></div> 		 	   		  </div></body>
</html>=

--_0ee0d492-4f9a-4baf-a0cc-82636baa279b_--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jan 23 00:19:20 2013
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Message-ID: <CAP-n2V3MTYqq2KKYWetXn-zH70op44XppkyinEmHgij1wRu9_g@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: About the absence of Undo in the Octatrack
From: Sylvain Poitras <sylvain.trombone@gmail.com>
To: "Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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--047d7b6d9624362bc904d3e9a541
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Sergio,
You've been on a buying spree ever since you showed up around here...  my
advice, stop buying stuff and make music with the cool toys you already
have (live, boomerang, octotrack...)

Half what I do that's any good is by making do with the limitation of my
gear... on the computer, the hardest thing for me is setting limits to
recreate those kind of constraints...

May I suggest you sign up for the Disquiet Junto and use whatever gear you
have to create some music for this week's project (coming on thursday):
http://disquiet.com/2012/01/27/the-disquiet-junto/

I've been having a lot of fun with it, creating music I otherwise would not
have.


Sylvain


On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 6:44 PM, Sergio Girardi <simpliflying@gmail.com>wrote:

>  Tod, I did write a lot, here, and on Elektron forums, BEFORE.
> I even was writing with Chapelier Fou, do you know him? He was selling his
> OT on Elektron forums.
> He just told me not to buy the OT because Ableton was better, but he told
> me it was because the OT is too linear for him, he needs to build a song in
> a way that at the end he can recall a loop he played at the beginning
> (which he can with Ableton and Launchpad).
> So, NOBODY ever told me "hey, careful, there is no undo", and sincerely,
> the Undo is such a damn BASIC thing in a looper (redo for me too, so I do
> not understand why the LP2 has got no redo, I would prefer ONE layer of
> undo plus redo rather than 30 layers of undo and no redo. the thing I most
> liked on the boomerang was the undo/redo, you can correct a mistake with
> the undo, or you can use the last overdub as if it was a separate loop,
> muting and unmuting it with undo/redo, which is SUPER COOL).
> ANd I did not ask, because I would have never ever ever ever expected that
> a looper can have no undo, not something which costs 1200 euro!
> But wathever.
> I am loosing energy, smile and time.
> I will probably give up, since I started all this music thing, I had just
> problems.
> I rather do carpenteer and forget about art, art sucks, as does my fucking
> italian character.
> And OT too!
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 15:25:45 -0800
>
> Subject: Re: About the absence of Undo in the Octatrack
> From: toddbert@gmail.com
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>
> If you have specific needs in a product, it's best to research it to see
> that the product fulfills those needs. Shelling out that much dough before
> figuring that out is a recipe for disaster, and complaining that you failed
> to read the manual does not help your case. There's lots of helpful folk on
> this list, and at electron-forums, and in many other places that would have
> helped you out.
>
> T
>
> On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 3:11 PM, Sergio Girardi <simpliflying@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>  Pag 2 of the manual, suggested uses of the Octatrack: the first suggested
> use is LOOPER DEVICE.
> So, do not tell me this please.
> As also I would like to shut up (sorry, I am angry, normally I am nicer)
> those who tell me "you should have read the manual before buying it, and
> would have noticed the absence of reference to undo.
> 200 pages of manual damn it! Are you kidding me? I still didnt read it all
> after months!
> Anyway.
> I have decided to buy a proper looper battery operated.
> I have read the thread best battery operated looper, but no comparison
> made, just names.
> The dl4 can be nice because I need a delay also but one loop is no deal.
> The lil is ok but limited.
> The lp2 can undo but not redo, uff...
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 14:00:25 -0800
> Subject: Re: About the absence of Undo in the Octatrack
> From: toddbert@gmail.com
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>
>
> An Octatrack is not a looper. It's a sampler which can do a few simple
> looping tricks.
>
> T
>
> On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 2:11 AM, Sergio Girardi <simpliflying@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>  AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH
>
> THis cannot be true, I must be having a nightmare!
> How can I be so unlucky to fall from the Boomerang to something which
> costs the double and cannot even UNDO a damn wrong overdub?
> Did they ever had a looper in their hand before projecting the pickup
> machines?????????????????????
> Any cheap looper can Undo and a 1200 euro octatrack can undo lot of things
> but not a overdub?
>
> Anders, did you find a workaround?
> I try to figure out if I can use more tracks to workaround this but,
> really I am absolutely and totally indigned with Elektron.
>
>
>
>
> --
> http://toaster.bandcamp.com
>
>
>
>
> --
> http://toaster.bandcamp.com
>

--047d7b6d9624362bc904d3e9a541
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Sergio,=A0<div style>You&#39;ve been on a buying spree eve=
r since you showed up around here... =A0my advice, stop buying stuff and ma=
ke music with the cool toys you already have (live, boomerang, octotrack...=
)</div>
<div style><br></div><div style>Half what I do that&#39;s any good is by ma=
king do with the limitation of my gear... on the computer, the hardest thin=
g for me is setting limits to recreate those kind of constraints...</div>
<div style><br></div><div style>May I suggest you sign up for the Disquiet =
Junto and use whatever gear you have to create some music for this week&#39=
;s project (coming on thursday):<a href=3D"http://disquiet.com/2012/01/27/t=
he-disquiet-junto/">http://disquiet.com/2012/01/27/the-disquiet-junto/</a><=
/div>
<div style><br></div><div style>I&#39;ve been having a lot of fun with it, =
creating music I otherwise would not have.</div><div style>=A0<br></div><di=
v style><br></div><div style>Sylvain</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">
<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 6:44 PM, Sergio =
Girardi <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:simpliflying@gmail.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">simpliflying@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid=
;padding-left:1ex">



<div><div dir=3D"ltr">
Tod, I did write a lot, here, and on Elektron forums, BEFORE. <br>I even wa=
s writing with Chapelier Fou, do you know him? He was selling his OT on Ele=
ktron forums.<br>He just told me not to buy the OT because Ableton was bett=
er, but he told me it was because the OT is too linear for him, he needs to=
 build a song in a way that at the end he can recall a loop he played at th=
e beginning (which he can with Ableton and Launchpad).<br>
So, NOBODY ever told me &quot;hey, careful, there is no undo&quot;, and sin=
cerely, the Undo is such a damn BASIC thing in a looper (redo for me too, s=
o I do not understand why the LP2 has got no redo, I would prefer ONE layer=
 of undo plus redo rather than 30 layers of undo and no redo. the thing I m=
ost liked on the boomerang was the undo/redo, you can correct a mistake wit=
h the undo, or you can use the last overdub as if it was a separate loop, m=
uting and unmuting it with undo/redo, which is SUPER COOL).<br>
ANd I did not ask, because I would have never ever ever ever expected that =
a looper can have no undo, not something which costs 1200 euro!<br>But wath=
ever.<br>I am loosing energy, smile and time.<br>I will probably give up, s=
ince I started all this music thing, I had just problems.<br>
I rather do carpenteer and forget about art, art sucks, as does my fucking =
italian character.<br>And OT too!<br><br><div><div></div><hr>Date: Tue, 22 =
Jan 2013 15:25:45 -0800<div><div class=3D"h5"><br>Subject: Re: About the ab=
sence of Undo in the Octatrack<br>
From: <a href=3D"mailto:toddbert@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">toddbert@gmai=
l.com</a><br>To: <a href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com</a><br><br>If you have s=
pecific needs in a product, it&#39;s best to research it to see that the pr=
oduct fulfills those needs. Shelling out that much dough before figuring th=
at out is a recipe for disaster, and complaining that you failed to read th=
e manual does not help your case. There&#39;s lots of helpful folk on this =
list, and at electron-forums, and in many other places that would have help=
ed you out.=A0<div>

<br></div><div>T<br><div><br><div>On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 3:11 PM, Sergio G=
irardi <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:simpliflying@gmail.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank">simpliflying@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">


<div><div dir=3D"ltr">
Pag 2 of the manual, suggested uses of the Octatrack: the first suggested u=
se is LOOPER DEVICE.<br>So, do not tell me this please.<br>As also I would =
like to shut up (sorry, I am angry, normally I am nicer) those who tell me =
&quot;you should have read the manual before buying it, and would have noti=
ced the absence of reference to undo.<br>

200 pages of manual damn it! Are you kidding me? I still didnt read it all =
after months!<br>Anyway.<br>I have decided to buy a proper looper battery o=
perated.<br>I have read the thread best battery operated looper, but no com=
parison made, just names.<br>

The dl4 can be nice because I need a delay also but one loop is no deal.<br=
>The lil is ok but limited.<br>The lp2 can undo but not redo, uff...<br><br=
><div><div></div><hr>Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 14:00:25 -0800<br>Subject: Re: =
About the absence of Undo in the Octatrack<br>

From: <a href=3D"mailto:toddbert@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">toddbert@gmai=
l.com</a><br>To: <a href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com</a><div><div><br>
<br>An Octatrack is not a looper. It&#39;s a sampler which can do a few sim=
ple looping tricks.=A0<div><br></div><div>T<br><br><div>On Tue, Jan 22, 201=
3 at 2:11 AM, Sergio Girardi <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:simpli=
flying@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">simpliflying@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> w=
rote:<br>


<blockquote style=3D"border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">


<div><div dir=3D"ltr">
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH<br><br>THi=
s cannot be true, I must be having a nightmare!<br>How can I be so unlucky =
to fall from the Boomerang to something which costs the double and cannot e=
ven UNDO a damn wrong overdub?<br>


Did they ever had a looper in their hand before projecting the pickup machi=
nes?????????????????????<br>Any cheap looper can Undo and a 1200 euro octat=
rack can undo lot of things but not a overdub?<br><br>Anders, did you find =
a workaround?<br>


I try to figure out if I can use more tracks to workaround this but, really=
 I am absolutely and totally indigned with Elektron.<br> 		 	   		  </div><=
/div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><a href=3D"h=
ttp://toaster.bandcamp.com" target=3D"_blank">http://toaster.bandcamp.com</=
a>
</div></div></div></div> 		 	   		  </div></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><a href=3D"h=
ttp://toaster.bandcamp.com" target=3D"_blank">http://toaster.bandcamp.com</=
a>
</div></div></div></div></div> 		 	   		  </div></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

--047d7b6d9624362bc904d3e9a541--

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Subject: OT : OSC for beginners?
From: Todd Elliott <toddbert@gmail.com>
To: "loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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Anyone got any good starting points for the wild world of OSC? Assume I
barely know what OSC stands for. Specifically, I'll end up using it in Max.
Assume I sort of understand that.

Thanks,

T

-- 
http://toaster.bandcamp.com

--14dae9340dd12910ab04d3eb01a4
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Anyone got any good starting points for the wild world of OSC? Assume I bar=
ely know what OSC stands for. Specifically, I&#39;ll end up using it in Max=
. Assume I sort of understand that.=A0<div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div=
>
<br></div><div>T<br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><a href=3D"http://t=
oaster.bandcamp.com" target=3D"_blank">http://toaster.bandcamp.com</a>
</div>

--14dae9340dd12910ab04d3eb01a4--

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Subject: Re: OT : OSC for beginners?
From: Jim Goodin <jimgoodinmusic@gmail.com>
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Todd timely you should post this. I was thinking out the same kind of
reachout.  I am using Mobius on Mac quite a bit right now.  I got 'Control'
a free iOS app for iPad and iPhone that allows OSC configuration.  I am
also very naive to this world but program and script in other forms.  For
relating to Mobius I think there are better apps but I thought I might
explore the possibilities with this one.

I will echo your post and ask if anyone has worked with 'Control'?

Jim [Goodin]


On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 8:56 PM, Todd Elliott <toddbert@gmail.com> wrote:

> Anyone got any good starting points for the wild world of OSC? Assume I
> barely know what OSC stands for. Specifically, I'll end up using it in Ma=
x.
> Assume I sort of understand that.
>
> Thanks,
>
> T
>
> --
> http://toaster.bandcamp.com
>



--=20
--=20
*jimgoodin.com* <http://jimgoodin.com> - 'Acoustic guitar renaissance,
color blue, repetitive minimalism'

*The Recordings of Wood and Wire Music*<http://woodandwiremusic.bandcamp.co=
m> -
'Organically inspired New Music'

*From Brooklyn To Glindran <http://jimgoodinpeterthorn.bandcamp.com>*, a
new World/Free Jazz recording by Jim Goodin & Peter Th=F6rn.  Proceeds from
this CD will benefit *JDRF International <http://jdrf.org>*

*Tips Across the
Waters<http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tips-across-the-waters/id474128076?mt=
=3D8>
*, a new app for iOS from James Goodin/Wood and Wire Ware.

--047d7b343b2a87241f04d3eb5855
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Todd timely you should post this. I was thinking out the same kind of reach=
out. =A0I am using Mobius on Mac quite a bit right now. =A0I got &#39;Contr=
ol&#39; a free iOS app for iPad and iPhone that allows OSC configuration. =
=A0I am also very naive to this world but program and script in other forms=
. =A0For relating to Mobius I think there are better apps but I thought I m=
ight explore the possibilities with this one.<div>
<br></div><div>I will echo your post and ask if anyone has worked with &#39=
;Control&#39;?</div><div><br></div><div>Jim [Goodin]</div><div><br><br><div=
 class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 8:56 PM, Todd Elliott <span =
dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:toddbert@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">tod=
dbert@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Anyone got any good starting points for the =
wild world of OSC? Assume I barely know what OSC stands for. Specifically, =
I&#39;ll end up using it in Max. Assume I sort of understand that.=A0<div>
<br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>
<br></div><div>T<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br clear=3D=
"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><a href=3D"http://toaster.bandcamp.com" target=
=3D"_blank">http://toaster.bandcamp.com</a>
</font></span></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div>-- </di=
v><div><a href=3D"http://jimgoodin.com" target=3D"_blank"><em>jimgoodin.com=
</em></a> - &#39;Acoustic guitar renaissance, color blue, repetitive minima=
lism&#39;</div>
<div>=A0</div><div><a href=3D"http://woodandwiremusic.bandcamp.com" target=
=3D"_blank"><em>The Recordings of Wood and Wire Music</em></a>=A0- &#39;Org=
anically inspired New Music&#39;</div><div>=A0</div><div><em><a href=3D"htt=
p://jimgoodinpeterthorn.bandcamp.com" target=3D"_blank">From Brooklyn To Gl=
indran</a></em>, a new World/Free Jazz recording by Jim Goodin &amp; Peter =
Th=F6rn.=A0 Proceeds from this CD will benefit <em><a href=3D"http://jdrf.o=
rg" target=3D"_blank">JDRF International</a></em></div>
<div><br><em><a href=3D"http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tips-across-the-wate=
rs/id474128076?mt=3D8" target=3D"_blank">Tips Across the Waters</a></em>, a=
 new app for iOS from James Goodin/Wood and Wire Ware.</div>
</div>

--047d7b343b2a87241f04d3eb5855--

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Subject: Re: OT : OSC for beginners?
From: Sylvain Poitras <sylvain.trombone@gmail.com>
To: "Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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All your OSC devices and software have an IP address, it might look like
this: 192.168,2,12

Your device is listening on a port (say 8000) and sending on another (say
9000).  So if you want to reach the above device, you need to connect to
192.168.2.12:8000.  When that device is sending out messages, it will send
it to the port 9000 of the other device.  So that device needs to receive
on 9000 and send on 8000.

Parameters are selected by their address.  If you want to move a slider on
the above device, you could send 192.168.2.12:8000/slider x (where x is the
value you want to set the slider to).

You can say that slider is the message and x is the value.  Values can be
floats, integers, strings, blobs, midi notes and probably some other things
I don't know about.  Obviously, you can't send any value types to any
address (well you can, but don't expect anything good).

I'd be happy to answer more specific questions, or if you need to be walked
through a certain setup.

(I'll take this opportunity to plug my own little OSC apps for iOS:
http://oscnotation.sylvainpoitras.com/
http://breakosc.sylvainpoitras.com/ )

Sylvain

--002354470e8c68c64904d3eb8cc7
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<div dir=3D"ltr">All your OSC devices and software have an IP address, it m=
ight look like this: 192.168,2,12<div><br></div><div style>Your device is l=
istening on a port (say 8000) and sending on another (say 9000). =A0So if y=
ou want to reach the above device, you need to connect to <a href=3D"http:/=
/192.168.2.12:8000">192.168.2.12:8000</a>. =A0When that device is sending o=
ut messages, it will send it to the port 9000 of the other device. =A0So th=
at device needs to receive on 9000 and send on 8000.</div>
<div style><br></div><div style>Parameters are selected by their address. =
=A0If you want to move a slider on the above device, you could send <a href=
=3D"http://192.168.2.12:8000/slider">192.168.2.12:8000/slider</a> x (where =
x is the value you want to set the slider to). =A0</div>
<div style><br></div><div style>You can say that slider is the message and =
x is the value. =A0Values can be floats, integers, strings, blobs, midi not=
es and probably some other things I don&#39;t know about. =A0Obviously, you=
 can&#39;t send any value types to any address (well you can, but don&#39;t=
 expect anything good).</div>
<div style><br></div><div style>I&#39;d be happy to answer more specific qu=
estions, or if you need to be walked through a certain setup.</div><div sty=
le><br></div><div style>(I&#39;ll take this opportunity to plug my own litt=
le OSC apps for iOS:=A0</div>
<div style><a href=3D"http://oscnotation.sylvainpoitras.com/">http://oscnot=
ation.sylvainpoitras.com/</a><br></div><div style><a href=3D"http://breakos=
c.sylvainpoitras.com/">http://breakosc.sylvainpoitras.com/</a> )<br></div><=
div style>
<br></div><div style>Sylvain</div><div style><br></div></div>

--002354470e8c68c64904d3eb8cc7--

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Like that it is stereo. Might work well in the feedback loop of the RC-50 wh=
en it goes over 100%.

denis


Sent from the star cluster Memory Alpha

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Subject: Re: OT : OSC for beginners?
From: Jim Goodin <jimgoodinmusic@gmail.com>
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Sylvain thank you for the insight.  Some of that I had dug up and began to
set up on this app I ref'd however I was just beginning to see the
scripting at least what is posted by Circularlabs and the 2.5 v of Mobius.
 I will check out your apps as well.  I have pubbed one, non musical and
was a first project to get out there.  Link below.  For last several weeks
I've been working through Chris Adamson/Kevin Avilla's 'Learning Core
Audio' dealing with API for OS X and iOS and I'm pretty wide-eyed excited
about it as planning to go after musical ideas.  Anywho thanks for this
input.

Jim
Tips Across the Waters -
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tips-across-the-waters/id474128076?=3Dmt8


On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 9:35 PM, Sylvain Poitras <sylvain.trombone@gmail.co=
m
> wrote:

> All your OSC devices and software have an IP address, it might look like
> this: 192.168,2,12
>
> Your device is listening on a port (say 8000) and sending on another (say
> 9000).  So if you want to reach the above device, you need to connect to
> 192.168.2.12:8000.  When that device is sending out messages, it will
> send it to the port 9000 of the other device.  So that device needs to
> receive on 9000 and send on 8000.
>
> Parameters are selected by their address.  If you want to move a slider o=
n
> the above device, you could send 192.168.2.12:8000/slider x (where x is
> the value you want to set the slider to).
>
> You can say that slider is the message and x is the value.  Values can be
> floats, integers, strings, blobs, midi notes and probably some other thin=
gs
> I don't know about.  Obviously, you can't send any value types to any
> address (well you can, but don't expect anything good).
>
> I'd be happy to answer more specific questions, or if you need to be
> walked through a certain setup.
>
> (I'll take this opportunity to plug my own little OSC apps for iOS:
> http://oscnotation.sylvainpoitras.com/
> http://breakosc.sylvainpoitras.com/ )
>
> Sylvain
>
>


--=20
--=20
*jimgoodin.com* <http://jimgoodin.com> - 'Acoustic guitar renaissance,
color blue, repetitive minimalism'

*The Recordings of Wood and Wire Music*<http://woodandwiremusic.bandcamp.co=
m> -
'Organically inspired New Music'

*From Brooklyn To Glindran <http://jimgoodinpeterthorn.bandcamp.com>*, a
new World/Free Jazz recording by Jim Goodin & Peter Th=F6rn.  Proceeds from
this CD will benefit *JDRF International <http://jdrf.org>*

*Tips Across the
Waters<http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tips-across-the-waters/id474128076?mt=
=3D8>
*, a new app for iOS from James Goodin/Wood and Wire Ware.

--047d7b621de20e3fe704d3ec412d
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Sylvain thank you for the insight. =A0Some of that I had dug up and began t=
o set up on this app I ref&#39;d however I was just beginning to see the sc=
ripting at least what is posted by Circularlabs and the 2.5 v of Mobius. =
=A0I will check out your apps as well. =A0I have pubbed one, non musical an=
d was a first project to get out there. =A0Link below. =A0For last several =
weeks I&#39;ve been working through Chris Adamson/Kevin Avilla&#39;s &#39;L=
earning Core Audio&#39; dealing with API for OS X and iOS and I&#39;m prett=
y wide-eyed excited about it as planning to go after musical ideas. =A0Anyw=
ho thanks for this input.<div>
<br></div><div>Jim</div><div>Tips Across the Waters - <a href=3D"http://itu=
nes.apple.com/us/app/tips-across-the-waters/id474128076?=3Dmt8">http://itun=
es.apple.com/us/app/tips-across-the-waters/id474128076?=3Dmt8</a></div><div=
><br>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 9:35 PM, Sylvain Poi=
tras <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sylvain.trombone@gmail.com" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">sylvain.trombone@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockq=
uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc =
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">All your OSC devices and software have an IP address, it m=
ight look like this: 192.168,2,12<div><br></div><div>Your device is listeni=
ng on a port (say 8000) and sending on another (say 9000). =A0So if you wan=
t to reach the above device, you need to connect to <a href=3D"http://192.1=
68.2.12:8000" target=3D"_blank">192.168.2.12:8000</a>. =A0When that device =
is sending out messages, it will send it to the port 9000 of the other devi=
ce. =A0So that device needs to receive on 9000 and send on 8000.</div>

<div><br></div><div>Parameters are selected by their address. =A0If you wan=
t to move a slider on the above device, you could send <a href=3D"http://19=
2.168.2.12:8000/slider" target=3D"_blank">192.168.2.12:8000/slider</a> x (w=
here x is the value you want to set the slider to). =A0</div>

<div><br></div><div>You can say that slider is the message and x is the val=
ue. =A0Values can be floats, integers, strings, blobs, midi notes and proba=
bly some other things I don&#39;t know about. =A0Obviously, you can&#39;t s=
end any value types to any address (well you can, but don&#39;t expect anyt=
hing good).</div>

<div><br></div><div>I&#39;d be happy to answer more specific questions, or =
if you need to be walked through a certain setup.</div><div><br></div><div>=
(I&#39;ll take this opportunity to plug my own little OSC apps for iOS:=A0<=
/div>

<div><a href=3D"http://oscnotation.sylvainpoitras.com/" target=3D"_blank">h=
ttp://oscnotation.sylvainpoitras.com/</a><br></div><div><a href=3D"http://b=
reakosc.sylvainpoitras.com/" target=3D"_blank">http://breakosc.sylvainpoitr=
as.com/</a> )<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
</font></span></div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><div>
<br></div><div>Sylvain</div><div><br></div></font></span></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div>-- </di=
v><div><a href=3D"http://jimgoodin.com" target=3D"_blank"><em>jimgoodin.com=
</em></a> - &#39;Acoustic guitar renaissance, color blue, repetitive minima=
lism&#39;</div>
<div>=A0</div><div><a href=3D"http://woodandwiremusic.bandcamp.com" target=
=3D"_blank"><em>The Recordings of Wood and Wire Music</em></a>=A0- &#39;Org=
anically inspired New Music&#39;</div><div>=A0</div><div><em><a href=3D"htt=
p://jimgoodinpeterthorn.bandcamp.com" target=3D"_blank">From Brooklyn To Gl=
indran</a></em>, a new World/Free Jazz recording by Jim Goodin &amp; Peter =
Th=F6rn.=A0 Proceeds from this CD will benefit <em><a href=3D"http://jdrf.o=
rg" target=3D"_blank">JDRF International</a></em></div>
<div><br><em><a href=3D"http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tips-across-the-wate=
rs/id474128076?mt=3D8" target=3D"_blank">Tips Across the Waters</a></em>, a=
 new app for iOS from James Goodin/Wood and Wire Ware.</div>
</div>

--047d7b621de20e3fe704d3ec412d--

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Subject: Re: OT : OSC for beginners?
From: Todd Elliott <toddbert@gmail.com>
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The demo video for break OSC has taught me that I will never pronounce
'bidule' correctly. Ever.

So, I take it that things like /slider x are values which are determined by
the device used? And said device should have a reference somewhere?

T

On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 6:35 PM, Sylvain Poitras <sylvain.trombone@gmail.com
> wrote:

> http://breakosc.sylvainpoitras.com/





-- 
http://toaster.bandcamp.com

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The demo video for break OSC has taught me that I will never pronounce &#39=
;bidule&#39; correctly. Ever.<div><br></div><div>So, I take it that things =
like /slider x are values which are determined by the device used? And said=
 device should have a reference somewhere?<br>
<div>
<br></div><div>T</div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 22, 2=
013 at 6:35 PM, Sylvain Poitras <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:syl=
vain.trombone@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">sylvain.trombone@gmail.com</a>&g=
t;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><a href=3D"http://breakosc.sylvainpoitras.co=
m/" target=3D"_blank">http://breakosc.sylvainpoitras.com/</a></blockquote><=
/div>

<br><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><a href=3D"http://toaster.b=
andcamp.com" target=3D"_blank">http://toaster.bandcamp.com</a>
</div></div>

--14dae934084d7a918a04d3ec68b1--

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Subject: Re: OT : OSC for beginners?
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>
> >>Chris Adamson/Kevin Avilla's 'Learning Core Audio'


Yeah, I've had that book sitting on my desk for the last couple months.
 I've been toying with the idea of recreating some of my bidule patches as
audio units to make them more CPU friendly.  And of course, to move beyond
the OSC apps into music processing, I need to have a better understanding
of Core Audio.

Another good book is "The Audio Programming Book" (Boulanger & Lazzarini).
 It's all about messing with samples using C, so it's more general than
that core audio book.  Lots of good algorithms, though.

I look forward to your music apps!

Sylvain

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left=
-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;paddi=
ng-left:1ex">
&gt;&gt;Chris Adamson/Kevin Avilla&#39;s &#39;Learning Core Audio&#39;=A0</=
blockquote><div><br></div><div style>Yeah, I&#39;ve had that book sitting o=
n my desk for the last couple months. =A0I&#39;ve been toying with the idea=
 of recreating some of my bidule patches as audio units to make them more C=
PU friendly. =A0And of course, to move beyond the OSC apps into music proce=
ssing, I need to have a better understanding of Core Audio.</div>
<div style><br></div><div style>Another good book is &quot;The Audio Progra=
mming Book&quot; (Boulanger &amp; Lazzarini). =A0It&#39;s all about messing=
 with samples using C, so it&#39;s more general than that core audio book. =
=A0Lots of good algorithms, though.</div>
<div style><br></div><div style>I look forward to your music apps!</div><di=
v style><br></div><div style>Sylvain</div><div style><br></div><div style><=
br></div></div></div></div>

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Subject: Re: OT : OSC for beginners?
From: Sylvain Poitras <sylvain.trombone@gmail.com>
To: "Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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Adresses are sometimes determined by the device/software your targeting.
For instance, the reference manual for OSC in Mobius makes those adresses
pretty clear: http://www.circularlabs.com/doc/v2/osc.htm (great job Jeff).

If you use touchOSC, you specify those adresses when you create them in the
template editor.

Not sure how you do it in Max, but you probably name them somehow.  Bidule
has an amazing OSC implementation...  each level of a group corresponds to
a level in the adress.  For instance, if you have a gate named MIDI in a
group name HUD), clicking on the gate will send out /HUD/MIDI 1 to whatever
OSC client is assigned to that group.  Very elegant.

One more thing to note, many software or devices (Osculator, missinglink,
mobius) expect to receive a float value between 0.0 and 1.0 and will scale
the parameters from that value.

What are you looking to do with OSC?  (and have you left audiomulch behind?)

Sylvain

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Adresses are sometimes determined by the device/software y=
our targeting. For instance, the reference manual for OSC in Mobius makes t=
hose adresses pretty clear:=A0<a href=3D"http://www.circularlabs.com/doc/v2=
/osc.htm">http://www.circularlabs.com/doc/v2/osc.htm</a> (great job Jeff).<=
div>
<br></div><div>If you use touchOSC, you specify those adresses when you cre=
ate them in the template editor.</div><div><br></div><div>Not sure how you =
do it in Max, but you probably name them somehow. =A0Bidule has an amazing =
OSC implementation... =A0each level of a group corresponds to a level in th=
e adress. =A0For instance, if you have a gate named MIDI in a group name HU=
D), clicking on the gate will send out /HUD/MIDI 1 to whatever OSC client i=
s assigned to that group. =A0Very elegant.</div>
<div><br></div><div>One more thing to note, many software or devices (Oscul=
ator, missinglink, mobius) expect to receive a float value between 0.0 and =
1.0 and will scale the parameters from that value.</div><div><br></div>
<div style>What are you looking to do with OSC? =A0(and have you left audio=
mulch behind?)</div><div><br></div><div>Sylvain<br><div><br></div><div><br>=
</div></div></div>

--047d7b676e6e084bfa04d3ec975c--

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Subject: Re: OT : OSC for beginners?
From: Todd Elliott <toddbert@gmail.com>
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No, I still like audiomulch for a lot of things, and it's still my default
drone factory. As for what I want to do with OSC? I want to learn the
basics. ;-). My first thought was to use it to use a grid controller to
switch programs on a drum machine to use while 'jamming stuff out'.

Also, bidule's OSC implementation is a hell of a lot easier than Max's. I
actually am getting things to occur there. Need to poke around the internet
a bit more to fiddle with.

T

On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 7:50 PM, Sylvain Poitras <sylvain.trombone@gmail.com
> wrote:

> Adresses are sometimes determined by the device/software your targeting.
> For instance, the reference manual for OSC in Mobius makes those adresses
> pretty clear: http://www.circularlabs.com/doc/v2/osc.htm (great job Jeff).
>
> If you use touchOSC, you specify those adresses when you create them in
> the template editor.
>
> Not sure how you do it in Max, but you probably name them somehow.  Bidule
> has an amazing OSC implementation...  each level of a group corresponds to
> a level in the adress.  For instance, if you have a gate named MIDI in a
> group name HUD), clicking on the gate will send out /HUD/MIDI 1 to whatever
> OSC client is assigned to that group.  Very elegant.
>
> One more thing to note, many software or devices (Osculator, missinglink,
> mobius) expect to receive a float value between 0.0 and 1.0 and will scale
> the parameters from that value.
>
> What are you looking to do with OSC?  (and have you left audiomulch
> behind?)
>
> Sylvain
>
>
>


-- 
http://toaster.bandcamp.com

--14dae9340f0f859a7e04d3ecd1d5
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

No, I still like audiomulch for a lot of things, and it&#39;s still my defa=
ult drone factory. As for what I want to do with OSC? I want to learn the b=
asics. ;-). My first thought was to use it to use a grid controller to swit=
ch programs on a drum machine to use while &#39;jamming stuff out&#39;.=A0<=
div>
<br></div><div>Also, bidule&#39;s OSC implementation is a hell of a lot eas=
ier than Max&#39;s. I actually am getting things to occur there. Need to po=
ke around the internet a bit more to fiddle with.</div><div><br></div><div>
T<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 7:50 PM, Sylvai=
n Poitras <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sylvain.trombone@gmail.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">sylvain.trombone@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px =
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">Adresses are sometimes determined by the device/software y=
our targeting. For instance, the reference manual for OSC in Mobius makes t=
hose adresses pretty clear:=A0<a href=3D"http://www.circularlabs.com/doc/v2=
/osc.htm" target=3D"_blank">http://www.circularlabs.com/doc/v2/osc.htm</a> =
(great job Jeff).<div>

<br></div><div>If you use touchOSC, you specify those adresses when you cre=
ate them in the template editor.</div><div><br></div><div>Not sure how you =
do it in Max, but you probably name them somehow. =A0Bidule has an amazing =
OSC implementation... =A0each level of a group corresponds to a level in th=
e adress. =A0For instance, if you have a gate named MIDI in a group name HU=
D), clicking on the gate will send out /HUD/MIDI 1 to whatever OSC client i=
s assigned to that group. =A0Very elegant.</div>

<div><br></div><div>One more thing to note, many software or devices (Oscul=
ator, missinglink, mobius) expect to receive a float value between 0.0 and =
1.0 and will scale the parameters from that value.</div><div><br></div>

<div>What are you looking to do with OSC? =A0(and have you left audiomulch =
behind?)</div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><div><br></div=
><div>Sylvain<br><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></font></span></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><a href=3D"h=
ttp://toaster.bandcamp.com" target=3D"_blank">http://toaster.bandcamp.com</=
a>
</div>

--14dae9340f0f859a7e04d3ecd1d5--

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Subject: Re: OT : OSC for beginners?
From: Jim Goodin <jimgoodinmusic@gmail.com>
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Sylvian thanks for the thoughts - just catching up and perhaps this is
venturing OT but re the books I have found this one ref'ed excellent.  I am
mid-way in it and have been fighting with Xcode to walk the line between C
and C++.  Most of the projects in the book are command line level programs.
 This particular project is involving the AUGraph and leads you through
recording input from whatever the default source is be it mic/line/USB,
playback of that, then leads you to being able to mix sources bringing in
the synthetic speech and to mix with the recorded source, illustrating the
3 concepts.  He uses a ringbuffer for part of the project and particularly
Apple's CARingBuffer which is C++.  All of the other projects have been
easy to follow and straightforward but this one more challenging at least
for me to wrap around (ch 8).  I have got it to compile but still battling
some linking issues which are probably an overlook of a framework but still
fishing.

Sorry to wax on I'm sure I'm about to get a 'what the hell has that to do
with looo....' apologies.  Know the other book but have not read but plan
to.

Thanks again for some clarity of OSC as in mind I'm going 'okay' so i can
get there.  In answer to your question of what I'm looking for, for me at
least at the present, controlling Mobius to some degree.  I have not
expensed for an actual foot controller but have used a 4 function pedal pod
to keyboard via USB that Rainer pointed me to couple years back.  For what
it is it works for me.  That said I have an iPad and use it a lot for a
range of things, some recording some online, testing apps, etc but it seems
the perfect touch controller.

Jim

On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 10:50 PM, Sylvain Poitras <
sylvain.trombone@gmail.com> wrote:

> Adresses are sometimes determined by the device/software your targeting.
> For instance, the reference manual for OSC in Mobius makes those adresses
> pretty clear: http://www.circularlabs.com/doc/v2/osc.htm (great job Jeff)=
.
>
> If you use touchOSC, you specify those adresses when you create them in
> the template editor.
>
> Not sure how you do it in Max, but you probably name them somehow.  Bidul=
e
> has an amazing OSC implementation...  each level of a group corresponds t=
o
> a level in the adress.  For instance, if you have a gate named MIDI in a
> group name HUD), clicking on the gate will send out /HUD/MIDI 1 to whatev=
er
> OSC client is assigned to that group.  Very elegant.
>
> One more thing to note, many software or devices (Osculator, missinglink,
> mobius) expect to receive a float value between 0.0 and 1.0 and will scal=
e
> the parameters from that value.
>
> What are you looking to do with OSC?  (and have you left audiomulch
> behind?)
>
> Sylvain
>
>
>


--=20
--=20
*jimgoodin.com* <http://jimgoodin.com> - 'Acoustic guitar renaissance,
color blue, repetitive minimalism'

*The Recordings of Wood and Wire Music*<http://woodandwiremusic.bandcamp.co=
m> -
'Organically inspired New Music'

*From Brooklyn To Glindran <http://jimgoodinpeterthorn.bandcamp.com>*, a
new World/Free Jazz recording by Jim Goodin & Peter Th=F6rn.  Proceeds from
this CD will benefit *JDRF International <http://jdrf.org>*

*Tips Across the
Waters<http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tips-across-the-waters/id474128076?mt=
=3D8>
*, a new app for iOS from James Goodin/Wood and Wire Ware.

--047d7b621de2f2283e04d3ecfcb6
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Sylvian thanks for the thoughts - just catching up and perhaps this is vent=
uring OT but re the books I have found this one ref&#39;ed excellent. =A0I =
am mid-way in it and have been fighting with Xcode to walk the line between=
 C and C++. =A0Most of the projects in the book are command line level prog=
rams. =A0This particular project is involving the AUGraph and leads you thr=
ough recording input from whatever the default source is be it mic/line/USB=
, playback of that, then leads you to being able to mix sources bringing in=
 the synthetic speech and to mix with the recorded source, illustrating the=
 3 concepts. =A0He uses a ringbuffer for part of the project and particular=
ly Apple&#39;s CARingBuffer which is C++. =A0All of the other projects have=
 been easy to follow and straightforward but this one more challenging at l=
east for me to wrap around (ch 8). =A0I have got it to compile but still ba=
ttling some linking issues which are probably an overlook of a framework bu=
t still fishing.<div>
<br></div><div>Sorry to wax on I&#39;m sure I&#39;m about to get a &#39;wha=
t the hell has that to do with looo....&#39; apologies. =A0Know the other b=
ook but have not read but plan to.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks again fo=
r some clarity of OSC as in mind I&#39;m going &#39;okay&#39; so i can get =
there. =A0In answer to your question of what I&#39;m looking for, for me at=
 least at the present, controlling Mobius to some degree. =A0I have not exp=
ensed for an actual foot controller but have used a 4 function pedal pod to=
 keyboard via USB that Rainer pointed me to couple years back. =A0For what =
it is it works for me. =A0That said I have an iPad and use it a lot for a r=
ange of things, some recording some online, testing apps, etc but it seems =
the perfect touch controller.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Jim<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 22, 2=
013 at 10:50 PM, Sylvain Poitras <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sy=
lvain.trombone@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">sylvain.trombone@gmail.com</a>&=
gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Adresses are sometimes dete=
rmined by the device/software your targeting. For instance, the reference m=
anual for OSC in Mobius makes those adresses pretty clear:=A0<a href=3D"htt=
p://www.circularlabs.com/doc/v2/osc.htm" target=3D"_blank">http://www.circu=
larlabs.com/doc/v2/osc.htm</a> (great job Jeff).<div>

<br></div><div>If you use touchOSC, you specify those adresses when you cre=
ate them in the template editor.</div><div><br></div><div>Not sure how you =
do it in Max, but you probably name them somehow. =A0Bidule has an amazing =
OSC implementation... =A0each level of a group corresponds to a level in th=
e adress. =A0For instance, if you have a gate named MIDI in a group name HU=
D), clicking on the gate will send out /HUD/MIDI 1 to whatever OSC client i=
s assigned to that group. =A0Very elegant.</div>

<div><br></div><div>One more thing to note, many software or devices (Oscul=
ator, missinglink, mobius) expect to receive a float value between 0.0 and =
1.0 and will scale the parameters from that value.</div><div><br></div>

<div>What are you looking to do with OSC? =A0(and have you left audiomulch =
behind?)</div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><div><br></div=
><div>Sylvain<br><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></font></span></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div>-- </di=
v><div><a href=3D"http://jimgoodin.com" target=3D"_blank"><em>jimgoodin.com=
</em></a> - &#39;Acoustic guitar renaissance, color blue, repetitive minima=
lism&#39;</div>
<div>=A0</div><div><a href=3D"http://woodandwiremusic.bandcamp.com" target=
=3D"_blank"><em>The Recordings of Wood and Wire Music</em></a>=A0- &#39;Org=
anically inspired New Music&#39;</div><div>=A0</div><div><em><a href=3D"htt=
p://jimgoodinpeterthorn.bandcamp.com" target=3D"_blank">From Brooklyn To Gl=
indran</a></em>, a new World/Free Jazz recording by Jim Goodin &amp; Peter =
Th=F6rn.=A0 Proceeds from this CD will benefit <em><a href=3D"http://jdrf.o=
rg" target=3D"_blank">JDRF International</a></em></div>
<div><br><em><a href=3D"http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tips-across-the-wate=
rs/id474128076?mt=3D8" target=3D"_blank">Tips Across the Waters</a></em>, a=
 new app for iOS from James Goodin/Wood and Wire Ware.</div>
</div>

--047d7b621de2f2283e04d3ecfcb6--

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--Apple-Mail-7-508154271
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****don't give into the temptation, don't say it... don't say it... =
don't.... don't say "stop making mistakes then you won't need undo".... =
don't say it, don't say it****

Teddy

On Jan 22, 2013, at 6:44 PM, Sergio Girardi wrote:

> you can correct a mistake with the undo


--Apple-Mail-7-508154271
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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	charset=us-ascii

<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
"><div><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: =
separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"'Lucida =
Grande'"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: =
16px;">****don't give into the temptation, don't say it... don't say =
it... don't.... don't say "stop making mistakes then you won't need =
undo".... don't say it, don't say it****</span></font></div><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"'Lucida Grande'"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-size: 16px;"><br></span></font></div><div =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; font-size: 12px; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 16px; =
">Teddy</span></span></div></div></span>
</div>
<br><div><div>On Jan 22, 2013, at 6:44 PM, Sergio Girardi =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: =
separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: =
normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Tahoma; font-size: =
13px; ">you can correct a mistake with the =
undo</span></span></blockquote></div><br></body></html>=

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Sent from my (advertisement removed)

On 23 Jan 2013, at 00:11, Sergio Girardi <simpliflying@gmail.com> wrote:

> The lp2 can undo but not redo, uff...

Can anything REDO actually? My repeater can do ONE layer.... but how
many loopers let you undo THEN redo.

M

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Subject: Re: About the absence of Undo in the Octatrack
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I'm still learning my new M-9, but doesn't that allow?
On Jan 22, 2013, at 10:17 PM, mark francombe wrote:

> Sent from my (advertisement removed)
> 
> On 23 Jan 2013, at 00:11, Sergio Girardi <simpliflying@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> The lp2 can undo but not redo, uff...
> 
> Can anything REDO actually? My repeater can do ONE layer.... but how
> many loopers let you undo THEN redo.
> 
> M
> 

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Subject: Re: About the absence of Undo in the Octatrack
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I made my question sound like incredulity, it was a genuine question?
how many loopers have re do?

Sent from my (advertisement removed)

On 23 Jan 2013, at 07:42, Laurie Amat <voicesound@att.net> wrote:

> I'm still learning my new M-9, but doesn't that allow?
> On Jan 22, 2013, at 10:17 PM, mark francombe wrote:
>
>> Sent from my (advertisement removed)
>>
>> On 23 Jan 2013, at 00:11, Sergio Girardi <simpliflying@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The lp2 can undo but not redo, uff...
>>
>> Can anything REDO actually? My repeater can do ONE layer.... but how
>> many loopers let you undo THEN redo.
>>
>> M
>

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Man, it is 36 years that I try not to make mistakes, but unfortunately I do
make them, often the same ones :)
I wait for Anders to understand from him how he uses the OT with no undo.
But as you are so sure that one can do no mistakes (sure? Todd, live
performance, you get excited, no mistakes, ever?), I am interested in
knowing, from you and from the others, what else apart for the practice
could you suggest to organize the workflow with a looper with no undo, to
avoid being in a situation where you build a wonderful loop and at the last
overdub you mess it up.

2013/1/23 teddyjam.com <teddy@teddyjam.com>

> ****don't give into the temptation, don't say it... don't say it...
> don't.... don't say "stop making mistakes then you won't need undo"....
> don't say it, don't say it****
>
> Teddy
>
> On Jan 22, 2013, at 6:44 PM, Sergio Girardi wrote:
>
> you can correct a mistake with the undo
>
>
>

--f46d04448083ef9eb704d3f12ff4
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Man, it is 36 years that I try not to make mistakes, but unfortunately I do=
 make them, often the same ones :)<br>I wait for Anders to understand from =
him how he uses the OT with no undo.<br>But as you are so sure that one can=
 do no mistakes (sure? Todd, live performance, you get excited, no mistakes=
, ever?), I am interested in knowing, from you and from the others, what el=
se apart for the practice could you suggest to organize the workflow with a=
 looper with no undo, to avoid being in a situation where you build a wonde=
rful loop and at the last overdub you mess it up. <br>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2013/1/23 <a href=3D"http://teddyjam.com">te=
ddyjam.com</a> <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:teddy@teddyjam.com" =
target=3D"_blank">teddy@teddyjam.com</a>&gt;</span><br><blockquote class=3D=
"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding=
-left:1ex">
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div><span style=3D"line-height:normal;=
text-indent:0px;border-collapse:separate;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:-=
webkit-auto;font-variant:normal;text-transform:none;font-style:normal;white=
-space:normal;font-weight:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div>
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><font face=3D"&#39;Lucida Grande&#39;">=
<span style=3D"font-size:16px">****don&#39;t give into the temptation, don&=
#39;t say it... don&#39;t say it... don&#39;t.... don&#39;t say &quot;stop =
making mistakes then you won&#39;t need undo&quot;.... don&#39;t say it, do=
n&#39;t say it****</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><font face=3D"&#39;Lucida Grande&#39;">=
<span style=3D"font-size:16px"><br></span></font></div><div style=3D"font-f=
amily:Helvetica;font-size:medium;word-wrap:break-word"><span style=3D"font-=
family:&#39;Lucida Grande&#39;;font-size:12px"><span style=3D"font-size:16p=
x">Teddy</span></span></div>
</div></span>
</div>
<br><div><div>On Jan 22, 2013, at 6:44 PM, Sergio Girardi wrote:</div><br><=
blockquote type=3D"cite"><span style=3D"border-collapse:separate;font-famil=
y:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter=
-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;=
text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;font-size:medium"><=
span style=3D"font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">you can correct a mistake =
with the undo</span></span></blockquote>
</div><br></div></blockquote></div><br>

--f46d04448083ef9eb704d3f12ff4--

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Message-ID: <CA+wEFjXoqBFhZ09Xsj=npLCgkNX_mUxn6gbauiJbPJuwUoXwjQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: About the absence of Undo in the Octatrack
From: Ser Yo <simpliflying@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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--e89a8f642aa8a2bc5704d3f1460d
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Yes, this of the LP2 was not a complain about the LP2 (Rick also
misunderstood and told me to design my own looper and form my own company,
for then signing "yours, Rick", ahahah! He's great).
I was just saying that even if the Boomerang is not a good looper for
people who works with electronic music and need to have many gears in sync
(well, at least it wasn't in that moment, now there is the new firmware, I
did not try it yet), it had this undo/redo which, yes, only on the last
overdub, but it is great. And I was saying that if the LP2 could do redo at
least of the last undo, I would not think it even half second before buying
it.
For the way I see that I tend to make music with a looper, the undo is an
absolute must, and the redo a very very welcome feature which if I have it
I use always, not when I make mistakes, but as a creative tool.
Whatever.


2013/1/23 mark francombe <markfrancombe@gmail.com>

> Sent from my (advertisement removed)
>
> On 23 Jan 2013, at 00:11, Sergio Girardi <simpliflying@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > The lp2 can undo but not redo, uff...
>
> Can anything REDO actually? My repeater can do ONE layer.... but how
> many loopers let you undo THEN redo.
>
> M
>
>

--e89a8f642aa8a2bc5704d3f1460d
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Yes, this of the LP2 was not a complain about the LP2 (Rick also misunderst=
ood and told me to design my own looper and form my own company, for then s=
igning &quot;yours, Rick&quot;, ahahah! He&#39;s great).<br>I was just sayi=
ng that even if the Boomerang is not a good looper for people who works wit=
h electronic music and need to have many gears in sync (well, at least it w=
asn&#39;t in that moment, now there is the new firmware, I did not try it y=
et), it had this undo/redo which, yes, only on the last overdub, but it is =
great. And I was saying that if the LP2 could do redo at least of the last =
undo, I would not think it even half second before buying it.<br>
For the way I see that I tend to make music with a looper, the undo is an a=
bsolute must, and the redo a very very welcome feature which if I have it I=
 use always, not when I make mistakes, but as a creative tool.<br>Whatever.=
<br>
<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2013/1/23 mark francombe <span dir=3D"lt=
r">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:markfrancombe@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">markfra=
ncombe@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span><br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Sent from my (advertisement removed)<br>
<br>
On 23 Jan 2013, at 00:11, Sergio Girardi &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:simpliflying=
@gmail.com">simpliflying@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt; The lp2 can undo but not redo, uff...<br>
<br>
Can anything REDO actually? My repeater can do ONE layer.... but how<br>
many loopers let you undo THEN redo.<br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
M<br>
<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br>

--e89a8f642aa8a2bc5704d3f1460d--

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Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 09:29:43 +0000 (GMT)
From: Antony Hequet <antony.hequet@yahoo.fr>
Reply-To: Antony Hequet <antony.hequet@yahoo.fr>
Subject: Re: About the absence of Undo in the Octatrack
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--1253611123-1502015046-1358933383=:41939
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do not use overdubs, you have plenty of tracks...=0A=0AAntony Hequet=0A=0A=
=0A________________________________=0A De=A0: Ser Yo <simpliflying@gmail.co=
m>=0A=C0=A0: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com =0AEnvoy=E9 le : Mercredi =
23 janvier 2013 10h19=0AObjet=A0: Re: About the absence of Undo in the Octa=
track=0A =0A=0AMan, it is 36 years that I try not to make mistakes, but unf=
ortunately I do make them, often the same ones :)=0AI wait for Anders to un=
derstand from him how he uses the OT with no undo.=0ABut as you are so sure=
 that one can do no mistakes (sure? Todd, live performance, you get excited=
, no mistakes, ever?), I am interested in knowing, from you and from the ot=
hers, what else apart for the practice could you suggest to organize the wo=
rkflow with a looper with no undo, to avoid being in a situation where you =
build a wonderful loop and at the last overdub you mess it up. =0A=0A=0A201=
3/1/23 teddyjam.com <teddy@teddyjam.com>=0A=0A****don't give into the tempt=
ation, don't say it... don't say it... don't.... don't say "stop making mis=
takes then you won't need undo".... don't say it, don't say it****=0A>=0A>=
=0A>Teddy =0A>=0A>On Jan 22, 2013, at 6:44 PM, Sergio Girardi wrote:=0A>=0A=
>you can correct a mistake with the undo=0A>
--1253611123-1502015046-1358933383=:41939
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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:Co=
urier New, courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><div><spa=
n>do not use overdubs, you have plenty of tracks...</span></div><div style=
=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: 'Courier New', couri=
er, monaco, monospace, sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-styl=
e: normal; "><span><br></span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font=
-size: 13px; font-family: 'Courier New', courier, monaco, monospace, sans-s=
erif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; "><span>Antony Heq=
uet</span></div><div><br></div>  <div style=3D"font-family: 'Courier New', =
courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; "> <div style=3D"f=
ont-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt; "=
> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"> <hr size=3D"1">  <b><s=
pan style=3D"font-weight:bold;">De&nbsp;:</span></b> Ser Yo
 &lt;simpliflying@gmail.com&gt;<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">=
=C0&nbsp;:</span></b> Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com <br> <b><span sty=
le=3D"font-weight: bold;">Envoy=E9 le :</span></b> Mercredi 23 janvier 2013=
 10h19<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Objet&nbsp;:</span></b> Re=
: About the absence of Undo in the Octatrack<br> </font> </div> <br><meta h=
ttp-equiv=3D"x-dns-prefetch-control" content=3D"off"><div id=3D"yiv14566961=
34">Man, it is 36 years that I try not to make mistakes, but unfortunately =
I do make them, often the same ones :)<br>I wait for Anders to understand f=
rom him how he uses the OT with no undo.<br>But as you are so sure that one=
 can do no mistakes (sure? Todd, live performance, you get excited, no mist=
akes, ever?), I am interested in knowing, from you and from the others, wha=
t else apart for the practice could you suggest to organize the workflow wi=
th a looper with no undo, to avoid being in a situation where you build a w=
onderful
 loop and at the last overdub you mess it up. <br>=0A<br><div class=3D"yiv1=
456696134gmail_quote">2013/1/23 <a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=
=3D"http://teddyjam.com/">teddyjam.com</a> <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a rel=3D"=
nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:teddy@teddyjam.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"m=
ailto:teddy@teddyjam.com">teddy@teddyjam.com</a>&gt;</span><br><blockquote =
class=3D"yiv1456696134gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1=
px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">=0A<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;"><d=
iv><span style=3D"line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;border-collapse:separa=
te;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-transform:none;font-style=
:normal;white-space:normal;font-weight:normal;word-spacing:0px;"><div>=0A<d=
iv style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;"><font face=3D"'Lucida Grande'"><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:16px;">****don't give into the temptation, don't say it... =
don't say it... don't.... don't say "stop making mistakes then you won't ne=
ed undo".... don't say it, don't say it****</span></font></div>=0A<div styl=
e=3D"word-wrap:break-word;"><font face=3D"'Lucida Grande'"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:16px;"><br></span></font></div><div style=3D"font-family: Helvetic=
a; font-size: medium; word-wrap: break-word; "><span style=3D"font-size:12p=
x;"><span style=3D"font-size:16px;">Teddy</span></span></div>=0A</div></spa=
n>=0A</div>=0A<br><div><div>On Jan 22, 2013, at 6:44 PM, Sergio Girardi wro=
te:</div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span style=3D"border-collapse: sepa=
rate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; fon=
t-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent:=
 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; font-si=
ze: medium; "><span style=3D"font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13px; ">you ca=
n correct a mistake with the undo</span></span></blockquote>=0A</div><br></=
div></blockquote></div><br>=0A</div><meta http-equiv=3D"x-dns-prefetch-cont=
rol" content=3D"on"><br><br> </div> </div>  </div></body></html>
--1253611123-1502015046-1358933383=:41939--

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Subject: Re: About the absence of Undo in the Octatrack
To: loopers-delight <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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--f46d042f9e006f8b8b04d3f1d920
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Very much time is spent here on LD comparing feature sets between loopers,
as if there are magical "must haves". Some say Undo, some say feedback some
say straight into overdub. The truth is that most loopers DO conform to a
certain sub set of features that have been around since the EDP broke the
mould for delays. BUT... you will not find a box that will do everything as
you want it, and the more loopers you have owned the less friendly you are
about new devices with NEW ways of doing things, basically you just want
the same as you have always had (plus more).

The Octo track has always interested me (although I cannot afford one)
precisely because its NOT the same as other loopers, you WILL NOT be able
to do what other loopers do, you will no doubt find workarounds, but what
it does offer is WAY MORE OTHER STUFF! I suggest that instead of
concentrating on the one thing that it won't do, you should dive in and get
your hands dirty with the stuff that NO OTHER LOOPERS CAN DO!

OK, so you fluff an overdub, but if that overdub is suddenly chopped up and
twisted and stretched and warped, as some pre-made tracks kick in, with
filters and distorters and wobbles and other kerrrazeee stuff... I think
that your "fluff" will not only seem intentional, but it will seem cool as
f***!!!

I too tried to read the manual, but its really impossible to gauge what its
talking about unless you have the device infront of you, it seemed to
involve a bit too much pre-production, for my tastes, but what I have heard
from the box seems very interesting...

Dont give up on it soo fast, remember your frustration with it, post
your requirement on the elketron forum, and work on other stuff... I bet,
when they bring out an undo/redo feature, I wager that you will
have forgotten about your initial problem, because you will be producing
some cool assed shit.

After 10 years with the EDP, I somtimes delve into the manual, to find
something I havent tried yet...or much... "expert Mode" for example, or
stutter... A deep product is always gonna give you much more happiness in
the long run than a simple stand-alone REC OVERDUB PLAY UNDO pedal.

I think you have made the right choice in your purchase, just dont expect
to much overnight, wait 10 years, and see what you think then

Good luck!


Mark


On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 10:25 AM, Ser Yo <simpliflying@gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes, this of the LP2 was not a complain about the LP2 (Rick also
> misunderstood and told me to design my own looper and form my own company,
> for then signing "yours, Rick", ahahah! He's great).
> I was just saying that even if the Boomerang is not a good looper for
> people who works with electronic music and need to have many gears in sync
> (well, at least it wasn't in that moment, now there is the new firmware, I
> did not try it yet), it had this undo/redo which, yes, only on the last
> overdub, but it is great. And I was saying that if the LP2 could do redo at
> least of the last undo, I would not think it even half second before buying
> it.
> For the way I see that I tend to make music with a looper, the undo is an
> absolute must, and the redo a very very welcome feature which if I have it
> I use always, not when I make mistakes, but as a creative tool.
> Whatever.
>
>
>
> 2013/1/23 mark francombe <markfrancombe@gmail.com>
>
>> Sent from my (advertisement removed)
>>
>> On 23 Jan 2013, at 00:11, Sergio Girardi <simpliflying@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > The lp2 can undo but not redo, uff...
>>
>> Can anything REDO actually? My repeater can do ONE layer.... but how
>> many loopers let you undo THEN redo.
>>
>> M
>>
>>
>


-- 
*Mark Francombe*
www.markfrancombe.com
www.ordoabkhao.com
http://vimeo.com/user825094
http://www.looop.no
twitter @markfrancombe
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/

--f46d042f9e006f8b8b04d3f1d920
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px=
">Very much time is spent here on LD comparing feature sets between loopers=
, as if there are magical &quot;must haves&quot;. Some say Undo, some say f=
eedback some say=A0straight=A0into overdub. The truth is that most loopers =
DO conform to a certain sub set of features that have been around since the=
 EDP broke the mould for delays. BUT... you will not find a box that will d=
o everything as you want it, and the more loopers you have owned the less=
=A0friendly=A0you are about new devices with NEW ways of doing things, basi=
cally you just want the same as you have always had (plus more).</span><br =
style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">

<br style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">The Octo track has always intere=
sted me (although I cannot afford one) precisely because its NOT the same a=
s other loopers, you WILL NOT be able to do what other loopers do, you will=
 no doubt find workarounds, but what it does offer is WAY MORE OTHER STUFF!=
 I suggest that instead of concentrating on the one thing that it won&#39;t=
 do, you should dive in and get your hands dirty with the stuff that NO OTH=
ER LOOPERS CAN DO!=A0</span><br style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-=
size:13px">

<br style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">OK, so you fluff an overdub, but=
 if that overdub is suddenly chopped up and twisted and=A0stretched=A0and w=
arped, as some pre-made tracks kick in, with filters and distorters and wob=
bles and other kerrrazeee stuff... I think that your &quot;fluff&quot; will=
 not only seem intentional, but it will seem cool as f***!!!</span><br styl=
e=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">

<br style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">I too tried to read the manual, =
but its really impossible to=A0gauge=A0what its talking about unless you ha=
ve the device infront of you, it seemed to involve a bit too much pre-produ=
ction, for my tastes, but what I have heard from the box seems very interes=
ting...</span><div style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">

<br></div><div style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Dont g=
ive up on it soo fast, remember your frustration with it, post your=A0requi=
rement=A0on the elketron forum, and work on other stuff... I bet, when they=
 bring out an undo/redo feature, I wager that you will have=A0forgotten=A0a=
bout your initial problem, because you will be producing some cool assed sh=
it.</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></div><div s=
tyle=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">After 10 years with th=
e EDP, I somtimes delve into the manual, to find something I havent tried y=
et...or much... &quot;expert Mode&quot; for example, or stutter... A deep p=
roduct is always gonna give you much more happiness in the long run than a =
simple stand-alone REC OVERDUB PLAY UNDO pedal.=A0<br>

<br>I think you have made the right choice in your purchase, just dont expe=
ct to much overnight, wait 10 years, and see what you think then</div><div =
style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br>Good luck!</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></div><div s=
tyle=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style=
=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Mark=A0</div></div><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_extra">

<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 10:25 AM, Ser Yo=
 <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:simpliflying@gmail.com" target=3D"=
_blank">simpliflying@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex">

Yes, this of the LP2 was not a complain about the LP2 (Rick also misunderst=
ood and told me to design my own looper and form my own company, for then s=
igning &quot;yours, Rick&quot;, ahahah! He&#39;s great).<br>I was just sayi=
ng that even if the Boomerang is not a good looper for people who works wit=
h electronic music and need to have many gears in sync (well, at least it w=
asn&#39;t in that moment, now there is the new firmware, I did not try it y=
et), it had this undo/redo which, yes, only on the last overdub, but it is =
great. And I was saying that if the LP2 could do redo at least of the last =
undo, I would not think it even half second before buying it.<br>


For the way I see that I tend to make music with a looper, the undo is an a=
bsolute must, and the redo a very very welcome feature which if I have it I=
 use always, not when I make mistakes, but as a creative tool.<br>Whatever.=
<div class=3D"HOEnZb">

<div class=3D"h5"><br>
<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2013/1/23 mark francombe <span dir=3D"lt=
r">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:markfrancombe@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">markfra=
ncombe@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span><br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">


Sent from my (advertisement removed)<br>
<br>
On 23 Jan 2013, at 00:11, Sergio Girardi &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:simpliflying=
@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">simpliflying@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt; The lp2 can undo but not redo, uff...<br>
<br>
Can anything REDO actually? My repeater can do ONE layer.... but how<br>
many loopers let you undo THEN redo.<br>
<span><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
M<br>
<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br>=
<i style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(255,255,255);backgroun=
d-color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font style=3D"font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif" siz=
e=3D"4"><u>Mark Francombe</u></font></i><br>

<font size=3D"1"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.markfra=
ncombe.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.markfrancombe.com</a><br style=3D"color:=
rgb(51,0,51)"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.ordoabkhao=
.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.ordoabkhao.com</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,=
51)">

<a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://vimeo.com/user825094" target=
=3D"_blank">http://vimeo.com/user825094</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)"=
><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.looop.no/" target=3D"_b=
lank">http://www.looop.no</a><br>

twitter @markfrancombe<br><a href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@=
N00/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/</a><br><=
/font>
</div>

--f46d042f9e006f8b8b04d3f1d920--

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Subject: Re: About the absence of Undo in the Octatrack
From: Ser Yo <simpliflying@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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--14dae9340b33a67ea904d3f1fd8b
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Thanks :)
Even if waiting is one of my mayor weaknesses.
But yes. Inspiring answer, finally, instead of the many "stop complaining"
I had in Elektron Forums (then the psicologists say one must not repress
the anger, but when one is angry everybody say that you must not complain,
wtf!?).
:)

2013/1/23 mark francombe <mark@markfrancombe.com>

> Very much time is spent here on LD comparing feature sets between loopers,
> as if there are magical "must haves". Some say Undo, some say feedback some
> say straight into overdub. The truth is that most loopers DO conform to a
> certain sub set of features that have been around since the EDP broke the
> mould for delays. BUT... you will not find a box that will do everything as
> you want it, and the more loopers you have owned the less friendly you are
> about new devices with NEW ways of doing things, basically you just want
> the same as you have always had (plus more).
>
> The Octo track has always interested me (although I cannot afford one)
> precisely because its NOT the same as other loopers, you WILL NOT be able
> to do what other loopers do, you will no doubt find workarounds, but what
> it does offer is WAY MORE OTHER STUFF! I suggest that instead of
> concentrating on the one thing that it won't do, you should dive in and get
> your hands dirty with the stuff that NO OTHER LOOPERS CAN DO!
>
> OK, so you fluff an overdub, but if that overdub is suddenly chopped up
> and twisted and stretched and warped, as some pre-made tracks kick in, with
> filters and distorters and wobbles and other kerrrazeee stuff... I think
> that your "fluff" will not only seem intentional, but it will seem cool as
> f***!!!
>
> I too tried to read the manual, but its really impossible to gauge what
> its talking about unless you have the device infront of you, it seemed to
> involve a bit too much pre-production, for my tastes, but what I have heard
> from the box seems very interesting...
>
> Dont give up on it soo fast, remember your frustration with it, post
> your requirement on the elketron forum, and work on other stuff... I bet,
> when they bring out an undo/redo feature, I wager that you will
> have forgotten about your initial problem, because you will be producing
> some cool assed shit.
>
> After 10 years with the EDP, I somtimes delve into the manual, to find
> something I havent tried yet...or much... "expert Mode" for example, or
> stutter... A deep product is always gonna give you much more happiness in
> the long run than a simple stand-alone REC OVERDUB PLAY UNDO pedal.
>
> I think you have made the right choice in your purchase, just dont expect
> to much overnight, wait 10 years, and see what you think then
>
> Good luck!
>
>
> Mark
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 10:25 AM, Ser Yo <simpliflying@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Yes, this of the LP2 was not a complain about the LP2 (Rick also
>> misunderstood and told me to design my own looper and form my own company,
>> for then signing "yours, Rick", ahahah! He's great).
>> I was just saying that even if the Boomerang is not a good looper for
>> people who works with electronic music and need to have many gears in sync
>> (well, at least it wasn't in that moment, now there is the new firmware, I
>> did not try it yet), it had this undo/redo which, yes, only on the last
>> overdub, but it is great. And I was saying that if the LP2 could do redo at
>> least of the last undo, I would not think it even half second before buying
>> it.
>> For the way I see that I tend to make music with a looper, the undo is an
>> absolute must, and the redo a very very welcome feature which if I have it
>> I use always, not when I make mistakes, but as a creative tool.
>> Whatever.
>>
>>
>>
>> 2013/1/23 mark francombe <markfrancombe@gmail.com>
>>
>>> Sent from my (advertisement removed)
>>>
>>> On 23 Jan 2013, at 00:11, Sergio Girardi <simpliflying@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > The lp2 can undo but not redo, uff...
>>>
>>> Can anything REDO actually? My repeater can do ONE layer.... but how
>>> many loopers let you undo THEN redo.
>>>
>>> M
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *Mark Francombe*
> www.markfrancombe.com
> www.ordoabkhao.com
> http://vimeo.com/user825094
> http://www.looop.no
> twitter @markfrancombe
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/
>

--14dae9340b33a67ea904d3f1fd8b
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks :)<br>Even if waiting is one of my mayor weaknesses.<br>But yes. Ins=
piring answer, finally, instead of the many &quot;stop complaining&quot; I =
had in Elektron Forums (then the psicologists say one must not repress the =
anger, but when one is angry everybody say that you must not complain, wtf!=
?).<br>
:)<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2013/1/23 mark francombe <span dir=3D"=
ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mark@markfrancombe.com" target=3D"_blank">mark@m=
arkfrancombe.com</a>&gt;</span><br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px=
">Very much time is spent here on LD comparing feature sets between loopers=
, as if there are magical &quot;must haves&quot;. Some say Undo, some say f=
eedback some say=A0straight=A0into overdub. The truth is that most loopers =
DO conform to a certain sub set of features that have been around since the=
 EDP broke the mould for delays. BUT... you will not find a box that will d=
o everything as you want it, and the more loopers you have owned the less=
=A0friendly=A0you are about new devices with NEW ways of doing things, basi=
cally you just want the same as you have always had (plus more).</span><br =
style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">


<br style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">The Octo track has always intere=
sted me (although I cannot afford one) precisely because its NOT the same a=
s other loopers, you WILL NOT be able to do what other loopers do, you will=
 no doubt find workarounds, but what it does offer is WAY MORE OTHER STUFF!=
 I suggest that instead of concentrating on the one thing that it won&#39;t=
 do, you should dive in and get your hands dirty with the stuff that NO OTH=
ER LOOPERS CAN DO!=A0</span><br style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-=
size:13px">


<br style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">OK, so you fluff an overdub, but=
 if that overdub is suddenly chopped up and twisted and=A0stretched=A0and w=
arped, as some pre-made tracks kick in, with filters and distorters and wob=
bles and other kerrrazeee stuff... I think that your &quot;fluff&quot; will=
 not only seem intentional, but it will seem cool as f***!!!</span><br styl=
e=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">


<br style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">I too tried to read the manual, =
but its really impossible to=A0gauge=A0what its talking about unless you ha=
ve the device infront of you, it seemed to involve a bit too much pre-produ=
ction, for my tastes, but what I have heard from the box seems very interes=
ting...</span><div style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">


<br></div><div style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Dont g=
ive up on it soo fast, remember your frustration with it, post your=A0requi=
rement=A0on the elketron forum, and work on other stuff... I bet, when they=
 bring out an undo/redo feature, I wager that you will have=A0forgotten=A0a=
bout your initial problem, because you will be producing some cool assed sh=
it.</div>


<div style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></div><div s=
tyle=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">After 10 years with th=
e EDP, I somtimes delve into the manual, to find something I havent tried y=
et...or much... &quot;expert Mode&quot; for example, or stutter... A deep p=
roduct is always gonna give you much more happiness in the long run than a =
simple stand-alone REC OVERDUB PLAY UNDO pedal.=A0<br>


<br>I think you have made the right choice in your purchase, just dont expe=
ct to much overnight, wait 10 years, and see what you think then</div><div =
style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br>Good luck!</div>


<div style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></div><div s=
tyle=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style=
=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Mark=A0</div></div><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_extra">


<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 10:25 AM, Ser Yo=
 <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:simpliflying@gmail.com" target=3D"=
_blank">simpliflying@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex">


Yes, this of the LP2 was not a complain about the LP2 (Rick also misunderst=
ood and told me to design my own looper and form my own company, for then s=
igning &quot;yours, Rick&quot;, ahahah! He&#39;s great).<br>I was just sayi=
ng that even if the Boomerang is not a good looper for people who works wit=
h electronic music and need to have many gears in sync (well, at least it w=
asn&#39;t in that moment, now there is the new firmware, I did not try it y=
et), it had this undo/redo which, yes, only on the last overdub, but it is =
great. And I was saying that if the LP2 could do redo at least of the last =
undo, I would not think it even half second before buying it.<br>



For the way I see that I tend to make music with a looper, the undo is an a=
bsolute must, and the redo a very very welcome feature which if I have it I=
 use always, not when I make mistakes, but as a creative tool.<br>Whatever.=
<div>


<div><br>
<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2013/1/23 mark francombe <span dir=3D"lt=
r">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:markfrancombe@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">markfra=
ncombe@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span><br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">



Sent from my (advertisement removed)<br>
<br>
On 23 Jan 2013, at 00:11, Sergio Girardi &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:simpliflying=
@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">simpliflying@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt; The lp2 can undo but not redo, uff...<br>
<br>
Can anything REDO actually? My repeater can do ONE layer.... but how<br>
many loopers let you undo THEN redo.<br>
<span><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
M<br>
<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"=
#888888">
</font></span></div></div></blockquote></div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font c=
olor=3D"#888888"><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><i style=3D"fo=
nt-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(255,255,255);background-color:rgb(0,=
0,0)"><font style=3D"font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif" size=3D"4"><u>Mar=
k Francombe</u></font></i><br>


<font size=3D"1"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.markfra=
ncombe.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.markfrancombe.com</a><br style=3D"color:=
rgb(51,0,51)"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.ordoabkhao=
.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.ordoabkhao.com</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,=
51)">


<a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://vimeo.com/user825094" target=
=3D"_blank">http://vimeo.com/user825094</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)"=
><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.looop.no/" target=3D"_b=
lank">http://www.looop.no</a><br>


twitter @markfrancombe<br><a href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@=
N00/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/</a><br><=
/font>
</font></span></div>
</blockquote></div><br>

--14dae9340b33a67ea904d3f1fd8b--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jan 23 12:20:56 2013
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Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 07:20:50 -0500
From: Bill Fox <billyfox@soundscapes.us>
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Subject: Galactic Travels Playlist #824 for January 17, 2013.
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http://soundscapes.us/gt/playlists/2013/130117.html

Galactic Travels is an electronic, ambient, and space music show, that
airs each Thursday at 11:04 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and Bethlehem,
PA, 93.9 FM in Easton, PA and Phillipsburg, NJ, 93.7 FM in Fogelsville
and Trexlertown, and webcasting on the internet.  WDIY also broadcasts
in Digital HD at 88.1 FM.

Show #824 January 17, 2013.

WDIY Playlist:
http://wdiy.org/programs/galactic-travels?playlist_date=01-17-2013

RECAP:
On this show, I continued the month-long focus on Mystified. The
Featured CD at Midnight was "Coming Days" on Attenuation Circuit
Records.
http://soundscapes.us/gt/playlists/2013/focus.html#jan


PLAYLIST:

11:04 pm
ARTIST               TRACK                ALBUM (label)
==================== ==================== ==============================
Kevin Braheny        Starflight 1 *       Galaxies (Hearts of Space)
Andy Pickford        Questions            Replicant remastered (none)
Ray Carl Daye        Dervish Moon         Rapid Ear Movement (Magnatune)
VA [ElectroCelt]     Collision of Two     Doomsday and Brimstone (Sound
                        Worlds               for Good)
Max Corbacho         Deeper Into the      The Ocean Inside (ad21)
                        Ocean
John Sobocan         Free                 A Soft Circle (Databloem)
Modulator ESP        Event Horizon *      Event Horizon (none)


12:00 am
ARTIST               TRACK                ALBUM (label)
==================== ==================== ==============================
Mystified            Atlantic Passage     Coming Days (Attenuation
                                             Circuit)
Mystified            The Charge           Coming Days (Atten. Circuit)
Mystified            Phantom Ether        Coming Days (Atten. Circuit)
Mystified            Discordant Dreaming  Coming Days (Atten. Circuit)
Mystified            What is Inevitable   Coming Days (Atten. Circuit)
Mystified            The Shock of Coming  Coming Days (Atten. Circuit)
                        Days
Mystified            Faux Rapture         Coming Days (Atten. Circuit)
Glenn Main           Moving On            Ripples (A.D. Music)
Glenn Main           Heart and Soul       Ripples (A.D. Music)


1:00 am

  * = excerpt
VA = Various Artists (compilation)
++ = Advance CDR from Artist
-- = Background music under interview


NEXT SHOW:
On the next Galactic Travels, I'll continue the month-long focus on
Mystified.  The Featured CD at Midnight will be "Life is a Carnival" on
Attenuation Circuit Records.

WDIY Announcement: http://wdiy.org/post/next-galactic-travels-2013-01-24

Bill
========================================================================
Host of Galactic Travels, an electronic, ambient, and space music show,
Thursdays at 11:04 pm EST/GMT-5 on WDIY 88.1 FM in Allentown and
Bethlehem, 93.9 FM in Easton and Phillipsburg, and on 93.7 FM in
Trexlertown and Fogelsville.  WDIY also broadcasts in HD Digital Radio
on 88.1 FM.
Galactic Travels web site: http://galactictravels.info
Listen to WDIY at http://wdiy.org/programs/galactic-travels on-line.

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--Apple-Mail-1-532856035
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	charset=us-ascii

usually, a "mistake" is just something you didn't mean to play. If you =
are quick on your feet you can probably make something cool out of it.

What you have here is rich people's problems. Just go deeper into the =
octatrack and find all the other cool shit it does and make those =
mistakes into gold, brother... it probably does a whole bunch of stuff =
no other looper does, right? Do those things... then smile

Teddy

On Jan 23, 2013, at 4:19 AM, Ser Yo wrote:

> Man, it is 36 years that I try not to make mistakes, but unfortunately =
I do make them, often the same ones :)
> I wait for Anders to understand from him how he uses the OT with no =
undo.
> But as you are so sure that one can do no mistakes (sure? Todd, live =
performance, you get excited, no mistakes, ever?), I am interested in =
knowing, from you and from the others, what else apart for the practice =
could you suggest to organize the workflow with a looper with no undo, =
to avoid being in a situation where you build a wonderful loop and at =
the last overdub you mess it up.=20
>=20
> 2013/1/23 teddyjam.com <teddy@teddyjam.com>
> ****don't give into the temptation, don't say it... don't say it... =
don't.... don't say "stop making mistakes then you won't need undo".... =
don't say it, don't say it****
>=20
> Teddy
>=20
> On Jan 22, 2013, at 6:44 PM, Sergio Girardi wrote:
>=20
>> you can correct a mistake with the undo
>=20
>=20


--Apple-Mail-1-532856035
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=us-ascii

<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
"><div><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: =
separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"'Lucida =
Grande'"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: =
16px;">usually, a "mistake" is just something you didn't mean to play. =
If you are quick on your feet you can probably make something cool out =
of it.</span></font></div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"'Lucida Grande'"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: =
16px;"><br></span></font></div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"'Lucida Grande'"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 16px;">What you have here =
is rich people's problems. Just go deeper into the octatrack and find =
all the other cool shit it does and make those mistakes into gold, =
brother... it probably does a whole bunch of stuff no other looper does, =
right? Do those things... then smile</span></font></div><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"'Lucida Grande'"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-size: 16px;"><br></span></font></div><div =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; font-size: 12px; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 16px; =
">Teddy</span></span></div></div></span>
</div>
<br><div><div>On Jan 23, 2013, at 4:19 AM, Ser Yo wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Man, it is =
36 years that I try not to make mistakes, but unfortunately I do make =
them, often the same ones :)<br>I wait for Anders to understand from him =
how he uses the OT with no undo.<br>But as you are so sure that one can =
do no mistakes (sure? Todd, live performance, you get excited, no =
mistakes, ever?), I am interested in knowing, from you and from the =
others, what else apart for the practice could you suggest to organize =
the workflow with a looper with no undo, to avoid being in a situation =
where you build a wonderful loop and at the last overdub you mess it up. =
<br>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2013/1/23 <a =
href=3D"http://teddyjam.com/">teddyjam.com</a> <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:teddy@teddyjam.com" =
target=3D"_blank">teddy@teddyjam.com</a>&gt;</span><br><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc =
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div><span =
style=3D"line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;border-collapse:separate;lette=
r-spacing:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-variant:normal;text-transfor=
m:none;font-style:normal;white-space:normal;font-weight:normal;word-spacin=
g:0px"><div>
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><font face=3D"'Lucida Grande'"><span =
style=3D"font-size:16px">****don't give into the temptation, don't say =
it... don't say it... don't.... don't say "stop making mistakes then you =
won't need undo".... don't say it, don't say it****</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><font face=3D"'Lucida Grande'"><span =
style=3D"font-size:16px"><br></span></font></div><div =
style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium;word-wrap:break-word"><spa=
n style=3D"font-family:'Lucida Grande';font-size:12px"><span =
style=3D"font-size:16px">Teddy</span></span></div>
</div></span>
</div>
<br><div><div>On Jan 22, 2013, at 6:44 PM, Sergio Girardi =
wrote:</div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span =
style=3D"border-collapse:separate;font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;=
font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:n=
ormal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-sp=
ace:normal;word-spacing:0px;font-size:medium"><span =
style=3D"font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">you can correct a mistake =
with the undo</span></span></blockquote>
</div><br></div></blockquote></div><br>
</blockquote></div><br></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-1-532856035--

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Subject: Re: About the absence of Undo in the Octatrack
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I just noticed that my Line 6 M9 has a button for undo/redo, never noticed
it before!


On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 1:17 AM, mark francombe <markfrancombe@gmail.com>wrote:

> Sent from my (advertisement removed)
>
> On 23 Jan 2013, at 00:11, Sergio Girardi <simpliflying@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > The lp2 can undo but not redo, uff...
>
> Can anything REDO actually? My repeater can do ONE layer.... but how
> many loopers let you undo THEN redo.
>
> M
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">I just noticed that my Line 6 M9 has a button for undo/red=
o, never noticed it before! <br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 1:17 AM, mark francombe <s=
pan dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:markfrancombe@gmail.com" target=3D"_b=
lank">markfrancombe@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Sent from my (advertisement removed)<br>
<br>
On 23 Jan 2013, at 00:11, Sergio Girardi &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:simpliflying=
@gmail.com">simpliflying@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt; The lp2 can undo but not redo, uff...<br>
<br>
Can anything REDO actually? My repeater can do ONE layer.... but how<br>
many loopers let you undo THEN redo.<br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
M<br>
<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>

--047d7bb04cf268c31e04d3f492ab--

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From: bill bigrig <billbigrig@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: bill bigrig <billbigrig@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: About the absence of Undo in the Octatrack
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Frank Zappa once said, "play a mistake once, it's a mistake. Play a mistake twice, it's a composition".
rig


________________________________
From: teddyjam.com <teddy@teddyjam.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com 
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 4:37 AM
Subject: Re: About the absence of Undo in the Octatrack


usually, a "mistake" is just something you didn't mean to play. If you are quick on your feet you can probably make something cool out of it.

What you have here is rich people's problems. Just go deeper into the octatrack and find all the other cool shit it does and make those mistakes into gold, brother... it probably does a whole bunch of stuff no other looper does, right? Do those things... then smile

Teddy

On Jan 23, 2013, at 4:19 AM, Ser Yo wrote:

Man, it is 36 years that I try not to make mistakes, but unfortunately I do make them, often the same ones :)
>I wait for Anders to understand from him how he uses the OT with no undo.
>But as you are so sure that one can do no mistakes (sure? Todd, live performance, you get excited, no mistakes, ever?), I am interested in knowing, from you and from the others, what else apart for the practice could you suggest to organize the workflow with a looper with no undo, to avoid being in a situation where you build a wonderful loop and at the last overdub you mess it up. 
>
>
>2013/1/23 teddyjam.com <teddy@teddyjam.com>
>
>****don't give into the temptation, don't say it... don't say it... don't.... don't say "stop making mistakes then you won't need undo".... don't say it, don't say it****
>>
>>
>>Teddy
>>
>>On Jan 22, 2013, at 6:44 PM, Sergio Girardi wrote:
>>
>>you can correct a mistake with the undo
>>
>
---559651860-1185571925-1358949194=:85097
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">Frank Zappa once said, "play a <VAR id=yui-ie-cursor></VAR>mistake once, it's a mistake. Play a mistake twice, it's a composition".</SPAN></div>
<div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">rig</SPAN></div>
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px; RIGHT: auto"><BR style="RIGHT: auto"></div>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV style="RIGHT: auto" dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Arial>
<DIV style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px" class=hr contentEditable=false readonly="true"></DIV><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> teddyjam.com &lt;teddy@teddyjam.com&gt;<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com <BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, January 23, 2013 4:37 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: About the absence of Undo in the Octatrack<BR></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV id=yiv322874051>
<DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; FONT-VARIANT: normal; FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-WEIGHT: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=yiv322874051Apple-style-span>
<DIV>
<DIV style="WORD-WRAP: break-word"><FONT class=yiv322874051Apple-style-span face="'Lucida Grande'"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 16px" class=yiv322874051Apple-style-span>usually, a "mistake" is just something you didn't mean to play. If you are quick on your feet you can probably make something cool out of it.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="WORD-WRAP: break-word"><FONT class=yiv322874051Apple-style-span face="'Lucida Grande'"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 16px" class=yiv322874051Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="WORD-WRAP: break-word"><FONT class=yiv322874051Apple-style-span face="'Lucida Grande'"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 16px" class=yiv322874051Apple-style-span>What you have here is rich people's problems. Just go deeper into the octatrack and find all the other cool shit it does and make those mistakes into gold, brother... it probably does a whole bunch of stuff no other looper does, right? Do those things... then smile</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="WORD-WRAP: break-word"><FONT class=yiv322874051Apple-style-span face="'Lucida Grande'"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 16px" class=yiv322874051Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica; WORD-WRAP: break-word; FONT-SIZE: medium"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Grande'; FONT-SIZE: 12px" class=yiv322874051Apple-style-span><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 16px" class=yiv322874051Apple-style-span>Teddy</SPAN></SPAN></DIV></DIV></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Jan 23, 2013, at 4:19 AM, Ser Yo wrote:</DIV><BR class=yiv322874051Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Man, it is 36 years that I try not to make mistakes, but unfortunately I do make them, often the same ones :)<BR>I wait for Anders to understand from him how he uses the OT with no undo.<BR>But as you are so sure that one can do no mistakes (sure? Todd, live performance, you get excited, no mistakes, ever?), I am interested in knowing, from you and from the others, what else apart for the practice could you suggest to organize the workflow with a looper with no undo, to avoid being in a situation where you build a wonderful loop and at the last overdub you mess it up. <BR><BR>
<DIV class=yiv322874051gmail_quote>2013/1/23 <A href="http://teddyjam.com/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>teddyjam.com</A> <SPAN dir=ltr>&lt;<A href="mailto:teddy@teddyjam.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:teddy@teddyjam.com">teddy@teddyjam.com</A>&gt;</SPAN><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=yiv322874051gmail_quote>
<DIV style="WORD-WRAP: break-word">
<DIV><SPAN style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; FONT-VARIANT: normal; FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px">
<DIV>
<DIV style="WORD-WRAP: break-word"><FONT face="'Lucida Grande'"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 16px">****don't give into the temptation, don't say it... don't say it... don't.... don't say "stop making mistakes then you won't need undo".... don't say it, don't say it****</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="WORD-WRAP: break-word"><FONT face="'Lucida Grande'"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 16px"><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica; WORD-WRAP: break-word; FONT-SIZE: medium"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Grande'; FONT-SIZE: 12px"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 16px">Teddy</SPAN></SPAN></DIV></DIV></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Jan 22, 2013, at 6:44 PM, Sergio Girardi wrote:</DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 13px">you can correct a mistake with the undo</SPAN></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV><BR><BR></DIV></DIV></div></body></html>
---559651860-1185571925-1358949194=:85097--

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I hear ya man... the looping pick up machine was what prompted me to buy
it... but then, well you know, I managed to watch eBay pickup a
Gibson/*Oberheim
Echoplex Digital Pro*

I home the new EDP will come out this year...



On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Sergio Girardi <simpliflying@gmail.com>wrote:

>  Pag 2 of the manual, suggested uses of the Octatrack: the first suggested
> use is LOOPER DEVICE.
> So, do not tell me this please.
> As also I would like to shut up (sorry, I am angry, normally I am nicer)
> those who tell me "you should have read the manual before buying it, and
> would have noticed the absence of reference to undo.
> 200 pages of manual damn it! Are you kidding me? I still didnt read it all
> after months!
> Anyway.
> I have decided to buy a proper looper battery operated.
> I have read the thread best battery operated looper, but no comparison
> made, just names.
> The dl4 can be nice because I need a delay also but one loop is no deal.
> The lil is ok but limited.
> The lp2 can undo but not redo, uff...
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 14:00:25 -0800
> Subject: Re: About the absence of Undo in the Octatrack
> From: toddbert@gmail.com
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>
>
> An Octatrack is not a looper. It's a sampler which can do a few simple
> looping tricks.
>
> T
>
> On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 2:11 AM, Sergio Girardi <simpliflying@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>  AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH
>
> THis cannot be true, I must be having a nightmare!
> How can I be so unlucky to fall from the Boomerang to something which
> costs the double and cannot even UNDO a damn wrong overdub?
> Did they ever had a looper in their hand before projecting the pickup
> machines?????????????????????
> Any cheap looper can Undo and a 1200 euro octatrack can undo lot of things
> but not a overdub?
>
> Anders, did you find a workaround?
> I try to figure out if I can use more tracks to workaround this but,
> really I am absolutely and totally indigned with Elektron.
>
>
>
>
> --
> http://toaster.bandcamp.com
>

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<br>I hear ya man... the looping pick up machine was what prompted me to bu=
y it... but then, well you know, I managed to watch eBay pickup a Gibson/<e=
m>Oberheim Echoplex Digital Pro</em><br><br>I home the new EDP will come ou=
t this year...<br>

<br><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Ser=
gio Girardi <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:simpliflying@gmail.com"=
 target=3D"_blank">simpliflying@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc s=
olid;padding-left:1ex">




<div><div dir=3D"ltr">
Pag 2 of the manual, suggested uses of the Octatrack: the first suggested u=
se is LOOPER DEVICE.<br>So, do not tell me this please.<br>As also I would =
like to shut up (sorry, I am angry, normally I am nicer) those who tell me =
&quot;you should have read the manual before buying it, and would have noti=
ced the absence of reference to undo.<br>

200 pages of manual damn it! Are you kidding me? I still didnt read it all =
after months!<br>Anyway.<br>I have decided to buy a proper looper battery o=
perated.<br>I have read the thread best battery operated looper, but no com=
parison made, just names.<br>

The dl4 can be nice because I need a delay also but one loop is no deal.<br=
>The lil is ok but limited.<br>The lp2 can undo but not redo, uff...<br><br=
><div><div></div><hr>Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 14:00:25 -0800<br>Subject: Re: =
About the absence of Undo in the Octatrack<br>

From: <a href=3D"mailto:toddbert@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">toddbert@gmai=
l.com</a><br>To: <a href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com</a><div><div class=3D"h5=
"><br>

<br>An Octatrack is not a looper. It&#39;s a sampler which can do a few sim=
ple looping tricks.=C2=A0<div><br></div><div>T<br><br><div>On Tue, Jan 22, =
2013 at 2:11 AM, Sergio Girardi <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sim=
pliflying@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">simpliflying@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span=
> wrote:<br>


<blockquote style=3D"border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">


<div><div dir=3D"ltr">
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH<br><br>THi=
s cannot be true, I must be having a nightmare!<br>How can I be so unlucky =
to fall from the Boomerang to something which costs the double and cannot e=
ven UNDO a damn wrong overdub?<br>


Did they ever had a looper in their hand before projecting the pickup machi=
nes?????????????????????<br>Any cheap looper can Undo and a 1200 euro octat=
rack can undo lot of things but not a overdub?<br><br>Anders, did you find =
a workaround?<br>


I try to figure out if I can use more tracks to workaround this but, really=
 I am absolutely and totally indigned with Elektron.<br> 		 	   		  </div><=
/div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><a href=3D"h=
ttp://toaster.bandcamp.com" target=3D"_blank">http://toaster.bandcamp.com</=
a>
</div></div></div></div> 		 	   		  </div></div>
</blockquote></div><br>

--e89a8f22c381363b4204d3f5ea97--

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Subject: Re: OT : OSC for beginners?
From: Sylvain Poitras <sylvain.trombone@gmail.com>
To: "Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 11:18 PM, Jim Goodin <jimgoodinmusic@gmail.com>wrote:

> All of the other projects have been easy to follow and straightforward but
> this one more challenging at least for me to wrap around (ch 8).  I have
> got it to compile but still battling some linking issues which are probably
> an overlook of a framework but still fishing.


You're much farther along than I am in the book...  are you using the
projects you can download from the book website?  There's been at least six
updates to Xcode since the book came out last year, so there's all sort of
things than can need changing.

Are you using control or touchOSC?  The mobius OSC docs are very good, you
shouldn't have any problems setting up with either of them.  If you're
using touchOSC I can send you a basic template to get you started.

Sylvain

--047d7bea3b4420742304d3f6e270
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On T=
ue, Jan 22, 2013 at 11:18 PM, Jim Goodin <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:jimgoodinmusic@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jimgoodinmusic@gmail.com<=
/a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">All of the other projects have been easy to =
follow and straightforward but this one more challenging at least for me to=
 wrap around (ch 8). =A0I have got it to compile but still battling some li=
nking issues which are probably an overlook of a framework but still fishin=
g.</blockquote>
<div><br></div><div>You&#39;re much farther along than I am in the book... =
=A0are you using the projects you can download from the book website? =A0Th=
ere&#39;s been at least six updates to Xcode since the book came out last y=
ear, so there&#39;s all sort of things than can need changing. =A0</div>
<div><br></div><div>Are you using control or touchOSC? =A0The mobius OSC do=
cs are very good, you shouldn&#39;t have any problems setting up with eithe=
r of them. =A0If you&#39;re using touchOSC I can send you a basic template =
to get you started.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Sylvain</div><div><br></div></div></div></div>

--047d7bea3b4420742304d3f6e270--

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Subject: Re: OT : OSC for beginners?
From: Sylvain Poitras <sylvain.trombone@gmail.com>
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On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 11:06 PM, Todd Elliott <toddbert@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Also, bidule's OSC implementation is a hell of a lot easier than Max's. I
> actually am getting things to occur there. Need to poke around the internet
> a bit more to fiddle with.
>
>
Never played with OSC in Max, but I imagine you need to unpack all incoming
messages and route the values where you want them.  Bidule is great (no
video, though).  Max's advantage with Gen is that you can compile your
patches so they can run as quickly and efficiently as native objects.  (you
can do something similar with Bidule, but you need to write your patch in
C++ and link your code to the Bidule SDK...  not as straightforward).

Sylvain

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On T=
ue, Jan 22, 2013 at 11:06 PM, Todd Elliott <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:toddbert@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">toddbert@gmail.com</a>&gt;</s=
pan> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><br></div><div>Also, bidule&#39;s OSC i=
mplementation is a hell of a lot easier than Max&#39;s. I actually am getti=
ng things to occur there. Need to poke around the internet a bit more to fi=
ddle with.</div>
<div><br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Never played with OSC in Ma=
x, but I imagine you need to unpack all incoming messages and route the val=
ues where you want them. =A0Bidule is great (no video, though). =A0Max&#39;=
s advantage with Gen is that you can compile your patches so they can run a=
s quickly and efficiently as native objects. =A0(you can do something simil=
ar with Bidule, but you need to write your patch in C++ and link your code =
to the Bidule SDK... =A0not as straightforward).</div>
<div><br></div><div>Sylvain</div></div></div></div>

--20cf300fb445606a0804d3f6fa0e--

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From: Anders Bergdahl <anders_e_bergdahl@hotmail.com>
To: Loopers Delight <loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: RE: About the absence of Undo in the Octatrack
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 16:40:01 +0000
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Love that Zappa quote :-) I agree a lot with using a instrument for what it=
's good at. If you look at the Octatrack and want full looper functionality=
 from ONE pickup machine you will be dissapointed. both if you want a Boss =
style looper or if you are looking for a more experimental instrument like =
the EDP. BUT if you both let the unique features of the Octa inspire and sp=
end some time thinking out workarounds for you own "must functions". By usi=
ng two pickup machines and a re-sample pickup machine=2C perhaps with some =
clever MIDI functions for ease of use you can easily replicate the UNDO/RED=
O that lets you play something quickly erase it if you don't like att redo =
with something new.Another UNDO/REDO is the ability to replicate more loopi=
ng track=2C you do a base loop=2C add something press undo to go back to wh=
at was there before (peeling away a layer ) and the REDO to add it back in.=
. that is easily done with a multi track looper so easily that you do not n=
eed the function for THAT reason.
I have managed to fake "quantizised replace" for some LP2=2C EDP style semi=
 stutter=2C even loop windowing  of sorts can be done by having a short loo=
p=2C loop a longer loop.. in fact it is probably a very unique Octatrack fe=
ature since you can loop a part of a longer loop several times during the d=
uration of the longer loop. I do this in two way=2C by having one longer ma=
ster loop and the setting up a shorter loop that listens t o the longer. OR=
 re-sampling with a "flex machine" which allows me to replay the loop=2C or=
 parts of it on the sequencer and looper=2C pitchifts or anything you could=
 imagine taking looping loops from loops to new levels of crazyness.=20

Anders

From: sdclements@gmail.com
Date: Wed=2C 23 Jan 2013 07:56:55 -0700
Subject: Re: About the absence of Undo in the Octatrack
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com


I hear ya man... the looping pick up machine was what prompted me to buy it=
... but then=2C well you know=2C I managed to watch eBay pickup a Gibson/Ob=
erheim Echoplex Digital Pro

I home the new EDP will come out this year...





On Tue=2C Jan 22=2C 2013 at 4:11 PM=2C Sergio Girardi <simpliflying@gmail.c=
om> wrote:






Pag 2 of the manual=2C suggested uses of the Octatrack: the first suggested=
 use is LOOPER DEVICE.
So=2C do not tell me this please.
As also I would like to shut up (sorry=2C I am angry=2C normally I am nicer=
) those who tell me "you should have read the manual before buying it=2C an=
d would have noticed the absence of reference to undo.


200 pages of manual damn it! Are you kidding me? I still didnt read it all =
after months!
Anyway.
I have decided to buy a proper looper battery operated.
I have read the thread best battery operated looper=2C but no comparison ma=
de=2C just names.


The dl4 can be nice because I need a delay also but one loop is no deal.
The lil is ok but limited.
The lp2 can undo but not redo=2C uff...

Date: Tue=2C 22 Jan 2013 14:00:25 -0800
Subject: Re: About the absence of Undo in the Octatrack


From: toddbert@gmail.com
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com



An Octatrack is not a looper. It's a sampler which can do a few simple loop=
ing tricks.=20
T

On Tue=2C Jan 22=2C 2013 at 2:11 AM=2C Sergio Girardi <simpliflying@gmail.c=
om> wrote:







AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH

THis cannot be true=2C I must be having a nightmare!
How can I be so unlucky to fall from the Boomerang to something which costs=
 the double and cannot even UNDO a damn wrong overdub?



Did they ever had a looper in their hand before projecting the pickup machi=
nes?????????????????????
Any cheap looper can Undo and a 1200 euro octatrack can undo lot of things =
but not a overdub?

Anders=2C did you find a workaround?



I try to figure out if I can use more tracks to workaround this but=2C real=
ly I am absolutely and totally indigned with Elektron.
 		 	   		 =20


--=20
http://toaster.bandcamp.com
 		 	   		 =20

 		 	   		  =

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<head>
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<body class=3D'hmmessage'><div dir=3D'ltr'>
Love that Zappa quote :-) I agree a lot with using a instrument for what it=
's good at. If you look at the Octatrack and want full looper functionality=
 from ONE pickup machine you will be dissapointed. both if you want a Boss =
style looper or if you are looking for a more experimental instrument like =
the EDP. BUT if you both let the unique features of the Octa inspire and sp=
end some time thinking out workarounds for you own "must functions".&nbsp=
=3B<div>By using two pickup machines and a re-sample pickup machine=2C perh=
aps with some clever MIDI functions for ease of use you can&nbsp=3Beasily&n=
bsp=3Breplicate the UNDO/REDO that lets you play something&nbsp=3Bquickly&n=
bsp=3Berase it if you don't like att redo with something new.</div><div>Ano=
ther UNDO/REDO is the ability to replicate more looping track=2C you do a b=
ase loop=2C add something press undo to go back to what was there before (p=
eeling away a layer ) and the REDO to add it back in.. that is&nbsp=3Beasil=
y&nbsp=3Bdone with a multi track looper so&nbsp=3Beasily&nbsp=3Bthat you do=
 not need the function for THAT reason.</div><div><br></div><div>I have man=
aged to fake "quantizised replace" for some LP2=2C EDP style semi stutter=
=2C even loop windowing &nbsp=3Bof sorts can be done by having a short loop=
=2C loop a longer loop.. in fact it is probably a very unique Octatrack fea=
ture since you can loop a part of a longer loop several times during the du=
ration of the longer loop. I do this in two way=2C by having one longer mas=
ter loop and the setting up a shorter loop that listens t o the longer. OR =
re-sampling with a "flex machine" which allows me to replay the loop=2C or =
parts of it on the&nbsp=3Bsequencer and looper=2C pitchifts or anything you=
 could imagine taking looping loops from loops to new levels of crazyness.&=
nbsp=3B</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Anders</div><div><br><br><d=
iv><div id=3D"SkyDrivePlaceholder"></div><hr id=3D"stopSpelling">From: sdcl=
ements@gmail.com<br>Date: Wed=2C 23 Jan 2013 07:56:55 -0700<br>Subject: Re:=
 About the absence of Undo in the Octatrack<br>To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-=
delight.com<br><br><br>I hear ya man... the looping pick up machine was wha=
t prompted me to buy it... but then=2C well you know=2C I managed to watch =
eBay pickup a Gibson/<em>Oberheim Echoplex Digital Pro</em><br><br>I home t=
he new EDP will come out this year...<br>

<br><br><br><div class=3D"ecxgmail_quote">On Tue=2C Jan 22=2C 2013 at 4:11 =
PM=2C Sergio Girardi <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt=3B<a href=3D"mailto:simpliflying=
@gmail.com">simpliflying@gmail.com</a>&gt=3B</span> wrote:<br><blockquote c=
lass=3D"ecxgmail_quote" style=3D"border-left:1px #ccc solid=3Bpadding-left:=
1ex">




<div><div dir=3D"ltr">
Pag 2 of the manual=2C suggested uses of the Octatrack: the first suggested=
 use is LOOPER DEVICE.<br>So=2C do not tell me this please.<br>As also I wo=
uld like to shut up (sorry=2C I am angry=2C normally I am nicer) those who =
tell me "you should have read the manual before buying it=2C and would have=
 noticed the absence of reference to undo.<br>

200 pages of manual damn it! Are you kidding me? I still didnt read it all =
after months!<br>Anyway.<br>I have decided to buy a proper looper battery o=
perated.<br>I have read the thread best battery operated looper=2C but no c=
omparison made=2C just names.<br>

The dl4 can be nice because I need a delay also but one loop is no deal.<br=
>The lil is ok but limited.<br>The lp2 can undo but not redo=2C uff...<br><=
br><div><div></div><hr>Date: Tue=2C 22 Jan 2013 14:00:25 -0800<br>Subject: =
Re: About the absence of Undo in the Octatrack<br>

From: <a href=3D"mailto:toddbert@gmail.com">toddbert@gmail.com</a><br>To: <=
a href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@loope=
rs-delight.com</a><div><div class=3D"h5"><br>

<br>An Octatrack is not a looper. It's a sampler which can do a few simple =
looping tricks.&nbsp=3B<div><br></div><div>T<br><br><div>On Tue=2C Jan 22=
=2C 2013 at 2:11 AM=2C Sergio Girardi <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt=3B<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:simpliflying@gmail.com">simpliflying@gmail.com</a>&gt=3B</span> wrote:=
<br>


<blockquote style=3D"border-left:1px #ccc solid=3Bpadding-left:1ex">


<div><div dir=3D"ltr">
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH<br><br>THi=
s cannot be true=2C I must be having a nightmare!<br>How can I be so unluck=
y to fall from the Boomerang to something which costs the double and cannot=
 even UNDO a damn wrong overdub?<br>


Did they ever had a looper in their hand before projecting the pickup machi=
nes?????????????????????<br>Any cheap looper can Undo and a 1200 euro octat=
rack can undo lot of things but not a overdub?<br><br>Anders=2C did you fin=
d a workaround?<br>


I try to figure out if I can use more tracks to workaround this but=2C real=
ly I am absolutely and totally indigned with Elektron.<br> 		 	   		  </div=
></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><a href=3D"h=
ttp://toaster.bandcamp.com" target=3D"_blank">http://toaster.bandcamp.com</=
a>
</div></div></div></div> 		 	   		  </div></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div> 		 	   		  </div></body>
</html>=

--_98d1af76-03e7-490d-aa41-ce7f3e6ff3d9_--

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Subject: Video uploaded: Abstract Electronica on Axe-Fx II
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For this video I used an extremely simple setup of only two delays!
That was great fun and I will stick with it. No quantification, no
"undo". Typical "delay looping" but I just don't manipulate the two
delay unit's feedback by expression pedals, I also have two momentary
switch pedals so I can do sliced and ducking overdubs (what we call
"SUS Substitute" in EDP-ish).

Details on the setup, routing etc is in the YouTube video info text. I
used the effects already inside the preamp/effect processor box.

http://youtu.be/tzZRpC4TjHg

Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.perboysen.com
http://www.youtube.com/perboysen

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jan 23 17:32:10 2013
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Subject: RE: About the absence of Undo in the Octatrack
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Anders!
:)

You have fans in the Elektron community :)

It does not really change much but I would like to ask you: would you sugge=
st the use of the OT as only looper?
I am fascineted now by the idea of having another looper like the LP2=2C ab=
le to undo=2C to work on batteries=2C to do many things=2C and to be synced=
=2C or to keep the Boomerang (if the new firmware which I will try out soon=
 will prove to be sold and to make it synced with the OT) and then buy a li=
l looper for street performances when and if I will need it.
I have for now totally left aside Ableton because I have no time to learn s=
o many things and I cannot cope with other problems to solve (like syncing =
the OT master and Ableton slave which is said to be a titanic effort).
I say it does not change much=2C because in any case I will first get deepe=
r with the OT=2C so I will probably find out myself hat I can and cannot co=
pe about the OT.
But I am interested in your opinion.

Would you mind explaining more how to configure a midi controller to have t=
wo pickup machines or three=2C as you said=2C working together to make undo=
/redo?
And I also did not understand what you said about the multitrack looper. Th=
e OT can be considered a multitrack looper but my concern is that I have fo=
und myself=2C with the Boomerang=2C using all four loops because I like to =
minimize the use of overdub=2C I mean=2C I like to be able to have for exam=
ple two or three rhytmic parts which I can loop=2C play=2C stop=2C mute sep=
arately (which I do not know how to get if I put the three of them in one l=
oops as overdubs)=2C so that I can to techno beatbox with variating rhythmi=
c patterns.
SO I organize things in different loops=2C and I start overdubbing only whe=
n I have covered the available loops.
The octatrack has 8 tracks=2C I was happy of the idea of 8 separate loops=
=2C or 4 loops and 4 samples/flex (where by loop I mean something I improvi=
se=2C and by sample something I have already prepared or downloaded).
If I need 2 or 3 tracks for each loop which I want to be able to undo=2C hm=
mm.
Or these 3 pickup could all work as separate loops and all be able to undo=
=2C in some way=2C feeding each other?
Can you say more please?
And how do you do exactly this of a longer master loop? In the manual they =
suggest that the master should be shorter.

Ser

From: anders_e_bergdahl@hotmail.com
To: loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: RE: About the absence of Undo in the Octatrack
Date: Wed=2C 23 Jan 2013 16:40:01 +0000





Love that Zappa quote :-) I agree a lot with using a instrument for what it=
's good at. If you look at the Octatrack and want full looper functionality=
 from ONE pickup machine you will be dissapointed. both if you want a Boss =
style looper or if you are looking for a more experimental instrument like =
the EDP. BUT if you both let the unique features of the Octa inspire and sp=
end some time thinking out workarounds for you own "must functions". By usi=
ng two pickup machines and a re-sample pickup machine=2C perhaps with some =
clever MIDI functions for ease of use you can easily replicate the UNDO/RED=
O that lets you play something quickly erase it if you don't like att redo =
with something new.Another UNDO/REDO is the ability to replicate more loopi=
ng track=2C you do a base loop=2C add something press undo to go back to wh=
at was there before (peeling away a layer ) and the REDO to add it back in.=
. that is easily done with a multi track looper so easily that you do not n=
eed the function for THAT reason.
I have managed to fake "quantizised replace" for some LP2=2C EDP style semi=
 stutter=2C even loop windowing  of sorts can be done by having a short loo=
p=2C loop a longer loop.. in fact it is probably a very unique Octatrack fe=
ature since you can loop a part of a longer loop several times during the d=
uration of the longer loop. I do this in two way=2C by having one longer ma=
ster loop and the setting up a shorter loop that listens t o the longer. OR=
 re-sampling with a "flex machine" which allows me to replay the loop=2C or=
 parts of it on the sequencer and looper=2C pitchifts or anything you could=
 imagine taking looping loops from loops to new levels of crazyness.=20

Anders

From: sdclements@gmail.com
Date: Wed=2C 23 Jan 2013 07:56:55 -0700
Subject: Re: About the absence of Undo in the Octatrack
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com


I hear ya man... the looping pick up machine was what prompted me to buy it=
... but then=2C well you know=2C I managed to watch eBay pickup a Gibson/Ob=
erheim Echoplex Digital Pro

I home the new EDP will come out this year...





On Tue=2C Jan 22=2C 2013 at 4:11 PM=2C Sergio Girardi <simpliflying@gmail.c=
om> wrote:






Pag 2 of the manual=2C suggested uses of the Octatrack: the first suggested=
 use is LOOPER DEVICE.
So=2C do not tell me this please.
As also I would like to shut up (sorry=2C I am angry=2C normally I am nicer=
) those who tell me "you should have read the manual before buying it=2C an=
d would have noticed the absence of reference to undo.


200 pages of manual damn it! Are you kidding me? I still didnt read it all =
after months!
Anyway.
I have decided to buy a proper looper battery operated.
I have read the thread best battery operated looper=2C but no comparison ma=
de=2C just names.


The dl4 can be nice because I need a delay also but one loop is no deal.
The lil is ok but limited.
The lp2 can undo but not redo=2C uff...

Date: Tue=2C 22 Jan 2013 14:00:25 -0800
Subject: Re: About the absence of Undo in the Octatrack


From: toddbert@gmail.com
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com



An Octatrack is not a looper. It's a sampler which can do a few simple loop=
ing tricks.=20
T

On Tue=2C Jan 22=2C 2013 at 2:11 AM=2C Sergio Girardi <simpliflying@gmail.c=
om> wrote:







AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH

THis cannot be true=2C I must be having a nightmare!
How can I be so unlucky to fall from the Boomerang to something which costs=
 the double and cannot even UNDO a damn wrong overdub?



Did they ever had a looper in their hand before projecting the pickup machi=
nes?????????????????????
Any cheap looper can Undo and a 1200 euro octatrack can undo lot of things =
but not a overdub?

Anders=2C did you find a workaround?



I try to figure out if I can use more tracks to workaround this but=2C real=
ly I am absolutely and totally indigned with Elektron.
 		 	   		 =20


--=20
http://toaster.bandcamp.com
 		 	   		 =20

 		 	   		   		 	   		  =

--_815ae6be-554f-4f2b-ab9c-feb4ed333d0e_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
<head>
<style><!--
.hmmessage P
{
margin:0px=3B
padding:0px
}
body.hmmessage
{
font-size: 10pt=3B
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--></style></head>
<body class=3D'hmmessage'><div dir=3D'ltr'>
Anders!<br>:)<br><br>You have fans in the Elektron community :)<br><br>It d=
oes not really change much but I would like to ask you: would you suggest t=
he use of the OT as only looper?<br>I am fascineted now by the idea of havi=
ng another looper like the LP2=2C able to undo=2C to work on batteries=2C t=
o do many things=2C and to be synced=2C or to keep the Boomerang (if the ne=
w firmware which I will try out soon will prove to be sold and to make it s=
ynced with the OT) and then buy a lil looper for street performances when a=
nd if I will need it.<br>I have for now totally left aside Ableton because =
I have no time to learn so many things and I cannot cope with other problem=
s to solve (like syncing the OT master and Ableton slave which is said to b=
e a titanic effort).<br>I say it does not change much=2C because in any cas=
e I will first get deeper with the OT=2C so I will probably find out myself=
 hat I can and cannot cope about the OT.<br>But I am interested in your opi=
nion.<br><br>Would you mind explaining more how to configure a midi control=
ler to have two pickup machines or three=2C as you said=2C working together=
 to make undo/redo?<br>And I also did not understand what you said about th=
e multitrack looper. The OT can be considered a multitrack looper but my co=
ncern is that I have found myself=2C with the Boomerang=2C using all four l=
oops because I like to minimize the use of overdub=2C I mean=2C I like to b=
e able to have for example two or three rhytmic parts which I can loop=2C p=
lay=2C stop=2C mute separately (which I do not know how to get if I put the=
 three of them in one loops as overdubs)=2C so that I can to techno beatbox=
 with variating rhythmic patterns.<br>SO I organize things in different loo=
ps=2C and I start overdubbing only when I have covered the available loops.=
<br>The octatrack has 8 tracks=2C I was happy of the idea of 8 separate loo=
ps=2C or 4 loops and 4 samples/flex (where by loop I mean something I impro=
vise=2C and by sample something I have already prepared or downloaded).<br>=
If I need 2 or 3 tracks for each loop which I want to be able to undo=2C hm=
mm.<br>Or these 3 pickup could all work as separate loops and all be able t=
o undo=2C in some way=2C feeding each other?<br>Can you say more please?<br=
>And how do you do exactly this of a longer master loop? In the manual they=
 suggest that the master should be shorter.<br><br>Ser<br><br><div><div id=
=3D"SkyDrivePlaceholder"></div><hr id=3D"stopSpelling">From: anders_e_bergd=
ahl@hotmail.com<br>To: loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com<br>Subject: RE: =
About the absence of Undo in the Octatrack<br>Date: Wed=2C 23 Jan 2013 16:4=
0:01 +0000<br><br>

<style><!--
.ExternalClass .ecxhmmessage P
{padding:0px=3B}
.ExternalClass body.ecxhmmessage
{font-size:10pt=3Bfont-family:Tahoma=3B}

--></style>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
Love that Zappa quote :-) I agree a lot with using a instrument for what it=
's good at. If you look at the Octatrack and want full looper functionality=
 from ONE pickup machine you will be dissapointed. both if you want a Boss =
style looper or if you are looking for a more experimental instrument like =
the EDP. BUT if you both let the unique features of the Octa inspire and sp=
end some time thinking out workarounds for you own "must functions".&nbsp=
=3B<div>By using two pickup machines and a re-sample pickup machine=2C perh=
aps with some clever MIDI functions for ease of use you can&nbsp=3Beasily&n=
bsp=3Breplicate the UNDO/REDO that lets you play something&nbsp=3Bquickly&n=
bsp=3Berase it if you don't like att redo with something new.</div><div>Ano=
ther UNDO/REDO is the ability to replicate more looping track=2C you do a b=
ase loop=2C add something press undo to go back to what was there before (p=
eeling away a layer ) and the REDO to add it back in.. that is&nbsp=3Beasil=
y&nbsp=3Bdone with a multi track looper so&nbsp=3Beasily&nbsp=3Bthat you do=
 not need the function for THAT reason.</div><div><br></div><div>I have man=
aged to fake "quantizised replace" for some LP2=2C EDP style semi stutter=
=2C even loop windowing &nbsp=3Bof sorts can be done by having a short loop=
=2C loop a longer loop.. in fact it is probably a very unique Octatrack fea=
ture since you can loop a part of a longer loop several times during the du=
ration of the longer loop. I do this in two way=2C by having one longer mas=
ter loop and the setting up a shorter loop that listens t o the longer. OR =
re-sampling with a "flex machine" which allows me to replay the loop=2C or =
parts of it on the&nbsp=3Bsequencer and looper=2C pitchifts or anything you=
 could imagine taking looping loops from loops to new levels of crazyness.&=
nbsp=3B</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Anders</div><div><br><br><d=
iv><div id=3D"ecxSkyDrivePlaceholder"></div><hr id=3D"ecxstopSpelling">From=
: sdclements@gmail.com<br>Date: Wed=2C 23 Jan 2013 07:56:55 -0700<br>Subjec=
t: Re: About the absence of Undo in the Octatrack<br>To: Loopers-Delight@lo=
opers-delight.com<br><br><br>I hear ya man... the looping pick up machine w=
as what prompted me to buy it... but then=2C well you know=2C I managed to =
watch eBay pickup a Gibson/<em>Oberheim Echoplex Digital Pro</em><br><br>I =
home the new EDP will come out this year...<br>

<br><br><br><div class=3D"ecxgmail_quote">On Tue=2C Jan 22=2C 2013 at 4:11 =
PM=2C Sergio Girardi <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt=3B<a href=3D"mailto:simpliflying=
@gmail.com">simpliflying@gmail.com</a>&gt=3B</span> wrote:<br><blockquote c=
lass=3D"ecxgmail_quote" style=3D"border-left:1px #ccc solid=3Bpadding-left:=
1ex">




<div><div dir=3D"ltr">
Pag 2 of the manual=2C suggested uses of the Octatrack: the first suggested=
 use is LOOPER DEVICE.<br>So=2C do not tell me this please.<br>As also I wo=
uld like to shut up (sorry=2C I am angry=2C normally I am nicer) those who =
tell me "you should have read the manual before buying it=2C and would have=
 noticed the absence of reference to undo.<br>

200 pages of manual damn it! Are you kidding me? I still didnt read it all =
after months!<br>Anyway.<br>I have decided to buy a proper looper battery o=
perated.<br>I have read the thread best battery operated looper=2C but no c=
omparison made=2C just names.<br>

The dl4 can be nice because I need a delay also but one loop is no deal.<br=
>The lil is ok but limited.<br>The lp2 can undo but not redo=2C uff...<br><=
br><div><div></div><hr>Date: Tue=2C 22 Jan 2013 14:00:25 -0800<br>Subject: =
Re: About the absence of Undo in the Octatrack<br>

From: <a href=3D"mailto:toddbert@gmail.com">toddbert@gmail.com</a><br>To: <=
a href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@loope=
rs-delight.com</a><div><div class=3D"h5"><br>

<br>An Octatrack is not a looper. It's a sampler which can do a few simple =
looping tricks.&nbsp=3B<div><br></div><div>T<br><br><div>On Tue=2C Jan 22=
=2C 2013 at 2:11 AM=2C Sergio Girardi <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt=3B<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:simpliflying@gmail.com">simpliflying@gmail.com</a>&gt=3B</span> wrote:=
<br>


<blockquote style=3D"border-left:1px #ccc solid=3Bpadding-left:1ex">


<div><div dir=3D"ltr">
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH<br><br>THi=
s cannot be true=2C I must be having a nightmare!<br>How can I be so unluck=
y to fall from the Boomerang to something which costs the double and cannot=
 even UNDO a damn wrong overdub?<br>


Did they ever had a looper in their hand before projecting the pickup machi=
nes?????????????????????<br>Any cheap looper can Undo and a 1200 euro octat=
rack can undo lot of things but not a overdub?<br><br>Anders=2C did you fin=
d a workaround?<br>


I try to figure out if I can use more tracks to workaround this but=2C real=
ly I am absolutely and totally indigned with Elektron.<br> 		 	   		  </div=
></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><a href=3D"h=
ttp://toaster.bandcamp.com" target=3D"_blank">http://toaster.bandcamp.com</=
a>
</div></div></div></div> 		 	   		  </div></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div> 		 	   		  </div></div> 		 	   		  </di=
v></body>
</html>=

--_815ae6be-554f-4f2b-ab9c-feb4ed333d0e_--

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Subject: Re: About the absence of Undo in the Octatrack
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 09:51:57 -0800
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To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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--Apple-Mail=_BC54CF63-29B4-4F70-9463-25C6C091F7D9
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset=us-ascii

Hey Jeff,=20

That undo was hiding from you, forcing you into total spontaneity!  I've =
been playing with the M-9, but I'm so used to the DL-4, that I forget to =
use it.=20

As I read this thread, I was thinking of the fact that for those of us =
who improvise, a "mistake" is really an opportunity. Now, if you're =
setting down a pre-determined piece, a "mistake" can still be the same =
opportunity, a way to develop a piece, to challenge you or wanting =
something different. After all, we're musicians, adventure is in our =
blood! Ser, being able to play music is a gift. Don't aggravate yourself =
or blame the equipment. You are just up for the great music trip and =
very privileged, as are we all (for aggravation-be a banker!) You're =
probably going to surprise yourself, and as I said, this is all a gift. =
Oh, and definitely read the manual. You may be surprised.=20

And it's not totally about the equipment. I've gotten so much out of my =
DL-4 and that simplicity has made me so much more creative than I might =
have been.=20

Cheers!


On Jan 23, 2013, at 4:37 AM, teddyjam.com wrote:

> usually, a "mistake" is just something you didn't mean to play. If you =
are quick on your feet you can probably make something cool out of it.
>=20
> What you have here is rich people's problems. Just go deeper into the =
octatrack and find all the other cool shit it does and make those =
mistakes into gold, brother... it probably does a whole bunch of stuff =
no other looper does, right? Do those things... then smile
>=20
> Teddy
>=20
> On Jan 23, 2013, at 4:19 AM, Ser Yo wrote:
>=20
>> Man, it is 36 years that I try not to make mistakes, but =
unfortunately I do make them, often the same ones :)
>> I wait for Anders to understand from him how he uses the OT with no =
undo.
>> But as you are so sure that one can do no mistakes (sure? Todd, live =
performance, you get excited, no mistakes, ever?), I am interested in =
knowing, from you and from the others, what else apart for the practice =
could you suggest to organize the workflow with a looper with no undo, =
to avoid being in a situation where you build a wonderful loop and at =
the last overdub you mess it up.=20
>>=20
>> 2013/1/23 teddyjam.com <teddy@teddyjam.com>
>> ****don't give into the temptation, don't say it... don't say it... =
don't.... don't say "stop making mistakes then you won't need undo".... =
don't say it, don't say it****
>>=20
>> Teddy
>>=20
>> On Jan 22, 2013, at 6:44 PM, Sergio Girardi wrote:
>>=20
>>> you can correct a mistake with the undo
>>=20
>>=20
>=20


--Apple-Mail=_BC54CF63-29B4-4F70-9463-25C6C091F7D9
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=us-ascii

<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Hey =
Jeff,&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>That undo was hiding from you, forcing =
you into total spontaneity! &nbsp;I've been playing with the M-9, but =
I'm so used to the DL-4, that I forget to use =
it.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>As I read this thread, I was thinking =
of the fact that for those of us who improvise, a "mistake" is really an =
opportunity. Now, if you're setting down a pre-determined piece, a =
"mistake" can still be the same opportunity, a way to develop a piece, =
to challenge you or wanting something different. After all, we're =
musicians, adventure is in our blood! Ser, being able to play music is a =
gift. Don't aggravate yourself or blame the equipment. You are just up =
for the great music trip and very privileged, as are we all (for =
aggravation-be a banker!) You're probably going to surprise yourself, =
and as I said, this is all a gift. Oh, and definitely read the manual. =
You may be surprised.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>And it's not =
totally about the equipment. I've gotten so much out of my DL-4 and that =
simplicity has made me so much more creative than I might have =
been.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers!</div><div><br></div><div><br>=
</div><div><div><div>On Jan 23, 2013, at 4:37 AM, <a =
href=3D"http://teddyjam.com">teddyjam.com</a> wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: =
-webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"'Lucida =
Grande'"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: =
16px;">usually, a "mistake" is just something you didn't mean to play. =
If you are quick on your feet you can probably make something cool out =
of it.</span></font></div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"'Lucida Grande'"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: =
16px;"><br></span></font></div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"'Lucida Grande'"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 16px;">What you have here =
is rich people's problems. Just go deeper into the octatrack and find =
all the other cool shit it does and make those mistakes into gold, =
brother... it probably does a whole bunch of stuff no other looper does, =
right? Do those things... then smile</span></font></div><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"'Lucida Grande'"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-size: 16px;"><br></span></font></div><div =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; font-size: 12px; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 16px; =
">Teddy</span></span></div></div></span>
</div>
<br><div><div>On Jan 23, 2013, at 4:19 AM, Ser Yo wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Man, it is =
36 years that I try not to make mistakes, but unfortunately I do make =
them, often the same ones :)<br>I wait for Anders to understand from him =
how he uses the OT with no undo.<br>But as you are so sure that one can =
do no mistakes (sure? Todd, live performance, you get excited, no =
mistakes, ever?), I am interested in knowing, from you and from the =
others, what else apart for the practice could you suggest to organize =
the workflow with a looper with no undo, to avoid being in a situation =
where you build a wonderful loop and at the last overdub you mess it up. =
<br>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2013/1/23 <a =
href=3D"http://teddyjam.com/">teddyjam.com</a> <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:teddy@teddyjam.com" =
target=3D"_blank">teddy@teddyjam.com</a>&gt;</span><br><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc =
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div><span =
style=3D"line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;border-collapse:separate;lette=
r-spacing:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-variant:normal;text-transfor=
m:none;font-style:normal;white-space:normal;font-weight:normal;word-spacin=
g:0px"><div>
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><font face=3D"'Lucida Grande'"><span =
style=3D"font-size:16px">****don't give into the temptation, don't say =
it... don't say it... don't.... don't say "stop making mistakes then you =
won't need undo".... don't say it, don't say it****</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><font face=3D"'Lucida Grande'"><span =
style=3D"font-size:16px"><br></span></font></div><div =
style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium;word-wrap:break-word"><spa=
n style=3D"font-family:'Lucida Grande';font-size:12px"><span =
style=3D"font-size:16px">Teddy</span></span></div>
</div></span>
</div>
<br><div><div>On Jan 22, 2013, at 6:44 PM, Sergio Girardi =
wrote:</div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span =
style=3D"border-collapse:separate;font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;=
font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:n=
ormal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-sp=
ace:normal;word-spacing:0px;font-size:medium"><span =
style=3D"font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">you can correct a mistake =
with the undo</span></span></blockquote>
</div><br></div></blockquote></div><br>
</blockquote></div><br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_BC54CF63-29B4-4F70-9463-25C6C091F7D9--

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Message-ID: <CA+wEFjXs8z0ZcQEM5pdNZYpz8=SVGETb=S7TsrZ_9YfbkNeQDg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: About the absence of Undo in the Octatrack
From: Ser Yo <simpliflying@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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--bcaec519696d9e7ba504d3f88c53
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Yes, you too are right.
I did so many mistakes guys, I know, I just was, I mean, last year was a
total revolution for me, speaking at open heart as I like to do (even if
these emails are available to google search, bah, I had no idea, and now
anybody on the Earth knows I am in love, which, by the way, sorry guys, I
had a busy end of the year and forgot to thank you all for the warmth), so,
I started liking electronic music, I left my job, I spent all my money in
gears doing lot of wrong purchases which I still have here, including the
Ableton 8 which I never used, and bla bla, and I have seen myself that,
well, it is really better to just go little by little, and not let the
shopping mania to possess you, the illusion that you must buy all now, etc.
The Boomerang was not for me but I did things with it, while the OT is so
huge that I never did ANY music more since months!
I do read the manual but till one month ago I had no time to practice so I
was reading in the bus and, well, as somebody here said, one cannot
understand anything from it without the OT in his hands.

Well.
In music as in life, one must obviously do step by step and work within the
limitations with smile and creativity.

I really have much wish to just jump in the workflow of practice and
practice.
So, let me send this email and the OT is already blinking with the new 1.22
OS (which adds no undo! Damn it! :D ).

Ah, just to avoid misunderstanding in the community, when I said that I had
a misunderstanding with Rick and that he made me notice the ambiguity of my
words while still being able to salute me with a "yours, Rick" and I said
here "he is great", I meant it, it was no sarcasm, but a real, lovely, "he
is great", with appreciation.

Be you all, please, sure that I may be impulsive and passionate and not a
champion of waiting, but I am direct and sincere and transparent, and if I
want to say something bad to some of you (which is almost impossible
because it never happens to me to want to say bad things to people) I would
be extremely clear.
Till then, just trust me and suppose that whatever I say I am saying it
with love and humor (humor, not sarcasm).

Cheers to you all,
Ser

2013/1/23 Laurie Amat <voicesound@att.net>

> Hey Jeff,
>
> That undo was hiding from you, forcing you into total spontaneity!  I've
> been playing with the M-9, but I'm so used to the DL-4, that I forget to
> use it.
>
> As I read this thread, I was thinking of the fact that for those of us who
> improvise, a "mistake" is really an opportunity. Now, if you're setting
> down a pre-determined piece, a "mistake" can still be the same opportunity,
> a way to develop a piece, to challenge you or wanting something different.
> After all, we're musicians, adventure is in our blood! Ser, being able to
> play music is a gift. Don't aggravate yourself or blame the equipment. You
> are just up for the great music trip and very privileged, as are we all
> (for aggravation-be a banker!) You're probably going to surprise yourself,
> and as I said, this is all a gift. Oh, and definitely read the manual. You
> may be surprised.
>
> And it's not totally about the equipment. I've gotten so much out of my
> DL-4 and that simplicity has made me so much more creative than I might
> have been.
>
> Cheers!
>
>
> On Jan 23, 2013, at 4:37 AM, teddyjam.com wrote:
>
> usually, a "mistake" is just something you didn't mean to play. If you are
> quick on your feet you can probably make something cool out of it.
>
> What you have here is rich people's problems. Just go deeper into the
> octatrack and find all the other cool shit it does and make those mistakes
> into gold, brother... it probably does a whole bunch of stuff no other
> looper does, right? Do those things... then smile
>
> Teddy
>
> On Jan 23, 2013, at 4:19 AM, Ser Yo wrote:
>
> Man, it is 36 years that I try not to make mistakes, but unfortunately I
> do make them, often the same ones :)
> I wait for Anders to understand from him how he uses the OT with no undo.
> But as you are so sure that one can do no mistakes (sure? Todd, live
> performance, you get excited, no mistakes, ever?), I am interested in
> knowing, from you and from the others, what else apart for the practice
> could you suggest to organize the workflow with a looper with no undo, to
> avoid being in a situation where you build a wonderful loop and at the last
> overdub you mess it up.
>
> 2013/1/23 teddyjam.com <teddy@teddyjam.com>
>
>>  ****don't give into the temptation, don't say it... don't say it...
>> don't.... don't say "stop making mistakes then you won't need undo"....
>> don't say it, don't say it****
>>
>> Teddy
>>
>> On Jan 22, 2013, at 6:44 PM, Sergio Girardi wrote:
>>
>> you can correct a mistake with the undo
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

--bcaec519696d9e7ba504d3f88c53
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Yes, you too are right.<br>I did so many mistakes guys, I know, I just was,=
 I mean, last year was a total revolution for me, speaking at open heart as=
 I like to do (even if these emails are available to google search, bah, I =
had no idea, and now anybody on the Earth knows I am in love, which, by the=
 way, sorry guys, I had a busy end of the year and forgot to thank you all =
for the warmth), so, I started liking electronic music, I left my job, I sp=
ent all my money in gears doing lot of wrong purchases which I still have h=
ere, including the Ableton 8 which I never used, and bla bla, and I have se=
en myself that, well, it is really better to just go little by little, and =
not let the shopping mania to possess you, the illusion that you must buy a=
ll now, etc.<br>
The Boomerang was not for me but I did things with it, while the OT is so h=
uge that I never did ANY music more since months!<br>I do read the manual b=
ut till one month ago I had no time to practice so I was reading in the bus=
 and, well, as somebody here said, one cannot understand anything from it w=
ithout the OT in his hands.<br>
<br>Well.<br>In music as in life, one must obviously do step by step and wo=
rk within the limitations with smile and creativity.<br><br>I really have m=
uch wish to just jump in the workflow of practice and practice.<br>So, let =
me send this email and the OT is already blinking with the new 1.22 OS (whi=
ch adds no undo! Damn it! :D ).<br>
<br>Ah, just to avoid misunderstanding in the community, when I said that I=
 had a misunderstanding with Rick and that he made me notice the ambiguity =
of my words while still being able to salute me with a &quot;yours, Rick&qu=
ot; and I said here &quot;he is great&quot;, I meant it, it was no sarcasm,=
 but a real, lovely, &quot;he is great&quot;, with appreciation.<br>
<br>Be you all, please, sure that I may be impulsive and passionate and not=
 a champion of waiting, but I am direct and sincere and transparent, and if=
 I want to say something bad to some of you (which is almost impossible bec=
ause it never happens to me to want to say bad things to people) I would be=
 extremely clear.<br>
Till then, just trust me and suppose that whatever I say I am saying it wit=
h love and humor (humor, not sarcasm).<br><br>Cheers to you all,<br>Ser<br>=
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2013/1/23 Laurie Amat <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:voicesound@att.net" target=3D"_blank">voicesound@att.net<=
/a>&gt;</span><br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">Hey Jeff=
,=A0<div><br></div><div>That undo was hiding from you, forcing you into tot=
al spontaneity! =A0I&#39;ve been playing with the M-9, but I&#39;m so used =
to the DL-4, that I forget to use it.=A0</div>
<div><br></div><div>As I read this thread, I was thinking of the fact that =
for those of us who improvise, a &quot;mistake&quot; is really an opportuni=
ty. Now, if you&#39;re setting down a pre-determined piece, a &quot;mistake=
&quot; can still be the same opportunity, a way to develop a piece, to chal=
lenge you or wanting something different. After all, we&#39;re musicians, a=
dventure is in our blood! Ser, being able to play music is a gift. Don&#39;=
t aggravate yourself or blame the equipment. You are just up for the great =
music trip and very privileged, as are we all (for aggravation-be a banker!=
) You&#39;re probably going to surprise yourself, and as I said, this is al=
l a gift. Oh, and definitely read the manual. You may be surprised.=A0</div=
>
<div><br></div><div>And it&#39;s not totally about the equipment. I&#39;ve =
gotten so much out of my DL-4 and that simplicity has made me so much more =
creative than I might have been.=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers!</div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div><div>On Jan 23, 2013, at 4:37 AM, <=
a href=3D"http://teddyjam.com" target=3D"_blank">teddyjam.com</a> wrote:</d=
iv><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div><=
span style=3D"border-collapse:separate;font-style:normal;font-variant:norma=
l;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-w=
ebkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spac=
ing:0px"><div>
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><font face=3D"&#39;Lucida Grande&#39;">=
<span style=3D"font-size:16px">usually, a &quot;mistake&quot; is just somet=
hing you didn&#39;t mean to play. If you are quick on your feet you can pro=
bably make something cool out of it.</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><font face=3D"&#39;Lucida Grande&#39;">=
<span style=3D"font-size:16px"><br></span></font></div><div style=3D"word-w=
rap:break-word"><font face=3D"&#39;Lucida Grande&#39;"><span style=3D"font-=
size:16px">What you have here is rich people&#39;s problems. Just go deeper=
 into the octatrack and find all the other cool shit it does and make those=
 mistakes into gold, brother... it probably does a whole bunch of stuff no =
other looper does, right? Do those things... then smile</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><font face=3D"&#39;Lucida Grande&#39;">=
<span style=3D"font-size:16px"><br></span></font></div><div style=3D"font-f=
amily:Helvetica;font-size:medium;word-wrap:break-word"><span style=3D"font-=
family:&#39;Lucida Grande&#39;;font-size:12px"><span style=3D"font-size:16p=
x">Teddy</span></span></div>
</div></span>
</div>
<br><div><div>On Jan 23, 2013, at 4:19 AM, Ser Yo wrote:</div><br><blockquo=
te type=3D"cite">Man, it is 36 years that I try not to make mistakes, but u=
nfortunately I do make them, often the same ones :)<br>I wait for Anders to=
 understand from him how he uses the OT with no undo.<br>
But as you are so sure that one can do no mistakes (sure? Todd, live perfor=
mance, you get excited, no mistakes, ever?), I am interested in knowing, fr=
om you and from the others, what else apart for the practice could you sugg=
est to organize the workflow with a looper with no undo, to avoid being in =
a situation where you build a wonderful loop and at the last overdub you me=
ss it up. <br>

<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2013/1/23 <a href=3D"http://teddyjam.com/" t=
arget=3D"_blank">teddyjam.com</a> <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:t=
eddy@teddyjam.com" target=3D"_blank">teddy@teddyjam.com</a>&gt;</span><br><=
blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px=
 #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div><span style=3D"line-height:normal;=
text-indent:0px;border-collapse:separate;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:-=
webkit-auto;font-variant:normal;text-transform:none;font-style:normal;white=
-space:normal;font-weight:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div>

<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><font face=3D"&#39;Lucida Grande&#39;">=
<span style=3D"font-size:16px">****don&#39;t give into the temptation, don&=
#39;t say it... don&#39;t say it... don&#39;t.... don&#39;t say &quot;stop =
making mistakes then you won&#39;t need undo&quot;.... don&#39;t say it, do=
n&#39;t say it****</span></font></div>

<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><font face=3D"&#39;Lucida Grande&#39;">=
<span style=3D"font-size:16px"><br></span></font></div><div style=3D"font-f=
amily:Helvetica;font-size:medium;word-wrap:break-word"><span style=3D"font-=
family:&#39;Lucida Grande&#39;;font-size:12px"><span style=3D"font-size:16p=
x">Teddy</span></span></div>

</div></span>
</div>
<br><div><div>On Jan 22, 2013, at 6:44 PM, Sergio Girardi wrote:</div><br><=
blockquote type=3D"cite"><span style=3D"border-collapse:separate;font-famil=
y:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter=
-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;=
text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;font-size:medium"><=
span style=3D"font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">you can correct a mistake =
with the undo</span></span></blockquote>

</div><br></div></blockquote></div><br>
</blockquote></div><br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></blockquot=
e></div><br>

--bcaec519696d9e7ba504d3f88c53--

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What a lovely note :)

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 23, 2013, at 10:06 AM, Ser Yo <simpliflying@gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes, you too are right.
> I did so many mistakes guys, I know, I just was, I mean, last year was a t=
otal revolution for me, speaking at open heart as I like to do (even if thes=
e emails are available to google search, bah, I had no idea, and now anybody=
 on the Earth knows I am in love, which, by the way, sorry guys, I had a bus=
y end of the year and forgot to thank you all for the warmth), so, I started=
 liking electronic music, I left my job, I spent all my money in gears doing=
 lot of wrong purchases which I still have here, including the Ableton 8 whi=
ch I never used, and bla bla, and I have seen myself that, well, it is reall=
y better to just go little by little, and not let the shopping mania to poss=
ess you, the illusion that you must buy all now, etc.
> The Boomerang was not for me but I did things with it, while the OT is so h=
uge that I never did ANY music more since months!
> I do read the manual but till one month ago I had no time to practice so I=
 was reading in the bus and, well, as somebody here said, one cannot underst=
and anything from it without the OT in his hands.
>=20
> Well.
> In music as in life, one must obviously do step by step and work within th=
e limitations with smile and creativity.
>=20
> I really have much wish to just jump in the workflow of practice and pract=
ice.
> So, let me send this email and the OT is already blinking with the new 1.2=
2 OS (which adds no undo! Damn it! :D ).
>=20
> Ah, just to avoid misunderstanding in the community, when I said that I ha=
d a misunderstanding with Rick and that he made me notice the ambiguity of m=
y words while still being able to salute me with a "yours, Rick" and I said h=
ere "he is great", I meant it, it was no sarcasm, but a real, lovely, "he is=
 great", with appreciation.
>=20
> Be you all, please, sure that I may be impulsive and passionate and not a c=
hampion of waiting, but I am direct and sincere and transparent, and if I wa=
nt to say something bad to some of you (which is almost impossible because i=
t never happens to me to want to say bad things to people) I would be extrem=
ely clear.
> Till then, just trust me and suppose that whatever I say I am saying it wi=
th love and humor (humor, not sarcasm).
>=20
> Cheers to you all,
> Ser
>=20
> 2013/1/23 Laurie Amat <voicesound@att.net>
>> Hey Jeff,=20
>>=20
>> That undo was hiding from you, forcing you into total spontaneity!  I've b=
een playing with the M-9, but I'm so used to the DL-4, that I forget to use i=
t.=20
>>=20
>> As I read this thread, I was thinking of the fact that for those of us wh=
o improvise, a "mistake" is really an opportunity. Now, if you're setting do=
wn a pre-determined piece, a "mistake" can still be the same opportunity, a w=
ay to develop a piece, to challenge you or wanting something different. Afte=
r all, we're musicians, adventure is in our blood! Ser, being able to play m=
usic is a gift. Don't aggravate yourself or blame the equipment. You are jus=
t up for the great music trip and very privileged, as are we all (for aggrav=
ation-be a banker!) You're probably going to surprise yourself, and as I sai=
d, this is all a gift. Oh, and definitely read the manual. You may be surpri=
sed.=20
>>=20
>> And it's not totally about the equipment. I've gotten so much out of my D=
L-4 and that simplicity has made me so much more creative than I might have b=
een.=20
>>=20
>> Cheers!
>>=20
>>=20
>> On Jan 23, 2013, at 4:37 AM, teddyjam.com wrote:
>>=20
>>> usually, a "mistake" is just something you didn't mean to play. If you a=
re quick on your feet you can probably make something cool out of it.
>>>=20
>>> What you have here is rich people's problems. Just go deeper into the oc=
tatrack and find all the other cool shit it does and make those mistakes int=
o gold, brother... it probably does a whole bunch of stuff no other looper d=
oes, right? Do those things... then smile
>>>=20
>>> Teddy
>>>=20
>>> On Jan 23, 2013, at 4:19 AM, Ser Yo wrote:
>>>=20
>>>> Man, it is 36 years that I try not to make mistakes, but unfortunately I=
 do make them, often the same ones :)
>>>> I wait for Anders to understand from him how he uses the OT with no und=
o.
>>>> But as you are so sure that one can do no mistakes (sure? Todd, live pe=
rformance, you get excited, no mistakes, ever?), I am interested in knowing,=
 from you and from the others, what else apart for the practice could you su=
ggest to organize the workflow with a looper with no undo, to avoid being in=
 a situation where you build a wonderful loop and at the last overdub you me=
ss it up.=20
>>>>=20
>>>> 2013/1/23 teddyjam.com <teddy@teddyjam.com>
>>>>> ****don't give into the temptation, don't say it... don't say it... do=
n't.... don't say "stop making mistakes then you won't need undo".... don't s=
ay it, don't say it****
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Teddy
>>>>>=20
>>>>> On Jan 22, 2013, at 6:44 PM, Sergio Girardi wrote:
>>>>>=20
>>>>>> you can correct a mistake with the undo
>=20

--Apple-Mail-F5F79646-3F81-47DB-9745-4DE0F17038EB
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div>What a lovely note :)<br><br>Sent from=
 my iPhone</div><div><br>On Jan 23, 2013, at 10:06 AM, Ser Yo &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:simpliflying@gmail.com">simpliflying@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br=
></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>Yes, you too are right.<br>I did so ma=
ny mistakes guys, I know, I just was, I mean, last year was a total revoluti=
on for me, speaking at open heart as I like to do (even if these emails are a=
vailable to google search, bah, I had no idea, and now anybody on the Earth k=
nows I am in love, which, by the way, sorry guys, I had a busy end of the ye=
ar and forgot to thank you all for the warmth), so, I started liking electro=
nic music, I left my job, I spent all my money in gears doing lot of wrong p=
urchases which I still have here, including the Ableton 8 which I never used=
, and bla bla, and I have seen myself that, well, it is really better to jus=
t go little by little, and not let the shopping mania to possess you, the il=
lusion that you must buy all now, etc.<br>
The Boomerang was not for me but I did things with it, while the OT is so hu=
ge that I never did ANY music more since months!<br>I do read the manual but=
 till one month ago I had no time to practice so I was reading in the bus an=
d, well, as somebody here said, one cannot understand anything from it witho=
ut the OT in his hands.<br>
<br>Well.<br>In music as in life, one must obviously do step by step and wor=
k within the limitations with smile and creativity.<br><br>I really have muc=
h wish to just jump in the workflow of practice and practice.<br>So, let me s=
end this email and the OT is already blinking with the new 1.22 OS (which ad=
ds no undo! Damn it! :D ).<br>
<br>Ah, just to avoid misunderstanding in the community, when I said that I h=
ad a misunderstanding with Rick and that he made me notice the ambiguity of m=
y words while still being able to salute me with a "yours, Rick" and I said h=
ere "he is great", I meant it, it was no sarcasm, but a real, lovely, "he is=
 great", with appreciation.<br>
<br>Be you all, please, sure that I may be impulsive and passionate and not a=
 champion of waiting, but I am direct and sincere and transparent, and if I w=
ant to say something bad to some of you (which is almost impossible because i=
t never happens to me to want to say bad things to people) I would be extrem=
ely clear.<br>
Till then, just trust me and suppose that whatever I say I am saying it with=
 love and humor (humor, not sarcasm).<br><br>Cheers to you all,<br>Ser<br><b=
r><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2013/1/23 Laurie Amat <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:voicesound@att.net" target=3D"_blank">voicesound@att.net</a>&g=
t;</span><br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px=
 #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">Hey Jeff,&=
nbsp;<div><br></div><div>That undo was hiding from you, forcing you into tot=
al spontaneity! &nbsp;I've been playing with the M-9, but I'm so used to the=
 DL-4, that I forget to use it.&nbsp;</div>
<div><br></div><div>As I read this thread, I was thinking of the fact that f=
or those of us who improvise, a "mistake" is really an opportunity. Now, if y=
ou're setting down a pre-determined piece, a "mistake" can still be the same=
 opportunity, a way to develop a piece, to challenge you or wanting somethin=
g different. After all, we're musicians, adventure is in our blood! Ser, bei=
ng able to play music is a gift. Don't aggravate yourself or blame the equip=
ment. You are just up for the great music trip and very privileged, as are w=
e all (for aggravation-be a banker!) You're probably going to surprise yours=
elf, and as I said, this is all a gift. Oh, and definitely read the manual. Y=
ou may be surprised.&nbsp;</div>
<div><br></div><div>And it's not totally about the equipment. I've gotten so=
 much out of my DL-4 and that simplicity has made me so much more creative t=
han I might have been.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers!</div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div><div>On Jan 23, 2013, at 4:37 AM, <a=
 href=3D"http://teddyjam.com" target=3D"_blank">teddyjam.com</a> wrote:</div=
><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div><spa=
n style=3D"border-collapse:separate;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;fo=
nt-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit=
-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0p=
x"><div>
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><font face=3D"'Lucida Grande'"><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:16px">usually, a "mistake" is just something you didn't mean=
 to play. If you are quick on your feet you can probably make something cool=
 out of it.</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><font face=3D"'Lucida Grande'"><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:16px"><br></span></font></div><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-=
word"><font face=3D"'Lucida Grande'"><span style=3D"font-size:16px">What you=
 have here is rich people's problems. Just go deeper into the octatrack and f=
ind all the other cool shit it does and make those mistakes into gold, broth=
er... it probably does a whole bunch of stuff no other looper does, right? D=
o those things... then smile</span></font></div>
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><font face=3D"'Lucida Grande'"><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:16px"><br></span></font></div><div style=3D"font-family:Helv=
etica;font-size:medium;word-wrap:break-word"><span style=3D"font-family:'Luc=
ida Grande';font-size:12px"><span style=3D"font-size:16px">Teddy</span></spa=
n></div>
</div></span>
</div>
<br><div><div>On Jan 23, 2013, at 4:19 AM, Ser Yo wrote:</div><br><blockquot=
e type=3D"cite">Man, it is 36 years that I try not to make mistakes, but unf=
ortunately I do make them, often the same ones :)<br>I wait for Anders to un=
derstand from him how he uses the OT with no undo.<br>
But as you are so sure that one can do no mistakes (sure? Todd, live perform=
ance, you get excited, no mistakes, ever?), I am interested in knowing, from=
 you and from the others, what else apart for the practice could you suggest=
 to organize the workflow with a looper with no undo, to avoid being in a si=
tuation where you build a wonderful loop and at the last overdub you mess it=
 up. <br>

<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2013/1/23 <a href=3D"http://teddyjam.com/" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">teddyjam.com</a> <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ted=
dy@teddyjam.com" target=3D"_blank">teddy@teddyjam.com</a>&gt;</span><br><blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #cc=
c solid;padding-left:1ex">

<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div><span style=3D"line-height:normal;t=
ext-indent:0px;border-collapse:separate;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:-we=
bkit-auto;font-variant:normal;text-transform:none;font-style:normal;white-sp=
ace:normal;font-weight:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div>

<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><font face=3D"'Lucida Grande'"><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:16px">****don't give into the temptation, don't say it... do=
n't say it... don't.... don't say "stop making mistakes then you won't need u=
ndo".... don't say it, don't say it****</span></font></div>

<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><font face=3D"'Lucida Grande'"><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:16px"><br></span></font></div><div style=3D"font-family:Helv=
etica;font-size:medium;word-wrap:break-word"><span style=3D"font-family:'Luc=
ida Grande';font-size:12px"><span style=3D"font-size:16px">Teddy</span></spa=
n></div>

</div></span>
</div>
<br><div><div>On Jan 22, 2013, at 6:44 PM, Sergio Girardi wrote:</div><br><b=
lockquote type=3D"cite"><span style=3D"border-collapse:separate;font-family:=
Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-sp=
acing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text=
-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;font-size:medium"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">you can correct a mistake with th=
e undo</span></span></blockquote>

</div><br></div></blockquote></div><br>
</blockquote></div><br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></blockquote=
></div><br>
</div></blockquote></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-F5F79646-3F81-47DB-9745-4DE0F17038EB--

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http://ftp.eventide.com/h9/index.htm

Seems the tricky thing is that it can run any of the Eventide Stompox 
algorithms. And it's got an ultratap delay, a true classic for those to 
whom "looping" means "lots of delays".

          -r

-- 
http://moinlabs.de
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/moinlabs

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jan 23 19:18:01 2013
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Subject: New EHX Multi-Track Looping Recorder announced !
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Electro Harmonix announced a new Looper !!!
Have a look: http://www.ehx.com/products/45000_

Chris

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But it doesn't have.........

:-)

Kevin

On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 11:17 AM, Christoph Lehmann <krrrs@gmx.de> wrote:
> Electro Harmonix announced a new Looper !!!
> Have a look: http://www.ehx.com/products/45000_
>
> Chris
>



-- 
Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and to have a
form. That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all trouble.

- Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)

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You're hinting at feedback?

But it seems to have other interesting functions.
The specs say most parameters are controllable via midi.
It would be fantastic if you could assign the tempo fader to a pedal :)




Am 23.01.2013 um 20:21 schrieb Kevin Cheli-Colando:

> But it doesn't have.........
> 
> :-)
> 
> Kevin
> 
> On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 11:17 AM, Christoph Lehmann <krrrs@gmx.de> wrote:
>> Electro Harmonix announced a new Looper !!!
>> Have a look: http://www.ehx.com/products/45000_
>> 
>> Chris
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and to have a
> form. That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all trouble.
> 
> - Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)
> 

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Sure, I always do a first/initial review and then in-depth review of gear anyway. :)
I'll let you know.
best regards, Buzap
-------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 17:42:18 +0000
> Von: andy butler <akbutler@tiscali.co.uk>
> An: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Betreff: Re: TC-Ditto fatal flaw

> 
> 
> Buzap Buzap wrote:
> > Hi Andy
> > 
> > I have just ordered one today - I'll let you know!!
> > 
> 
> would you consider writing a review for livelooping.org?
> 
> 
> 
> andy
> 

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Subject: Re: New EHX Multi-Track Looping Recorder announced !
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I am disappointed by it. It is just the same as the 2880 except that you
can store your loops for editing and reloading. For me a non interest. It
also has an added mono mix monitor output. whoopie! lol

Maybe some specs are different but I didn't notice anything else from a
brief look at the manual.

Next please!

Jeff


On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 2:31 PM, Christoph Lehmann <krrrs@gmx.de> wrote:

> You're hinting at feedback?
>
> But it seems to have other interesting functions.
> The specs say most parameters are controllable via midi.
> It would be fantastic if you could assign the tempo fader to a pedal :)
>
>
>
>
> Am 23.01.2013 um 20:21 schrieb Kevin Cheli-Colando:
>
> > But it doesn't have.........
> >
> > :-)
> >
> > Kevin
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 11:17 AM, Christoph Lehmann <krrrs@gmx.de>
> wrote:
> >> Electro Harmonix announced a new Looper !!!
> >> Have a look: http://www.ehx.com/products/45000_
> >>
> >> Chris
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and to have a
> > form. That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all
> trouble.
> >
> > - Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)
> >
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div>I am disappointed by it. It is just the sam=
e as the 2880 except that you can store your loops for editing and reloadin=
g. For me a non interest. It also has an added mono mix monitor output. who=
opie! lol<br>
<br></div>Maybe some specs are different but I didn&#39;t notice anything e=
lse from a brief look at the manual. <br><br></div>Next please!<br><br></di=
v>Jeff<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quot=
e">
On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 2:31 PM, Christoph Lehmann <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:krrrs@gmx.de" target=3D"_blank">krrrs@gmx.de</a>&gt;</span>=
 wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bor=
der-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
You&#39;re hinting at feedback?<br>
<br>
But it seems to have other interesting functions.<br>
The specs say most parameters are controllable via midi.<br>
It would be fantastic if you could assign the tempo fader to a pedal :)<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Am 23.01.2013 um 20:21 schrieb Kevin Cheli-Colando:<br>
<br>
&gt; But it doesn&#39;t have.........<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; :-)<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Kevin<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 11:17 AM, Christoph Lehmann &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:krrrs@gmx.de">krrrs@gmx.de</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; Electro Harmonix announced a new Looper !!!<br>
&gt;&gt; Have a look: <a href=3D"http://www.ehx.com/products/45000_" target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.ehx.com/products/45000_</a><br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Chris<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">&gt;<br>
&gt; --<br>
&gt; Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and to have =
a<br>
&gt; form. That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all trou=
ble.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; - Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>

--047d7b67862640ec1204d3fa2055--

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Subject: Re: New EHX Multi-Track Looping Recorder announced !
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On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 8:31 PM, Christoph Lehmann <krrrs@gmx.de> wrote:
> The specs say most parameters are controllable via midi.

That's where I closed the page. It should have read "all". Is this
another company that believes guitarists are less intelligent?

Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.perboysen.com
http://www.youtube.com/perboysen

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=46rom the manual:
"The only parameters you cannot control are L and R INPUT gain knobs and =
HEADPHONE Volume knob. "


Am 23.01.2013 um 21:01 schrieb Per Boysen:

> On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 8:31 PM, Christoph Lehmann <krrrs@gmx.de> =
wrote:
>> The specs say most parameters are controllable via midi.
>=20
> That's where I closed the page. It should have read "all". Is this
> another company that believes guitarists are less intelligent?
>=20
> Greetings from Sweden
>=20
> Per Boysen
> www.perboysen.com
> http://www.youtube.com/perboysen
>=20


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<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>From the manual:</div><div>
		<p><span style="font-size: 9.000000pt; font-family: 'MetaBookLF'">"The only parameters you cannot control are L and R INPUT
gain knobs and HEADPHONE Volume knob. "</span></p></div><br><div><div>Am 23.01.2013 um 21:01 schrieb Per Boysen:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 8:31 PM, Christoph Lehmann &lt;<a href="mailto:krrrs@gmx.de">krrrs@gmx.de</a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote type="cite">The specs say most parameters are controllable via midi.<br></blockquote><br>That's where I closed the page. It should have read "all". Is this<br>another company that believes guitarists are less intelligent?<br><br>Greetings from Sweden<br><br>Per Boysen<br><a href="http://www.perboysen.com">www.perboysen.com</a><br>http://www.youtube.com/perboysen<br><br></div></blockquote></div><br></body></html>
--Apple-Mail=_C5C78358-3EFC-4297-BE49-B1529A96AD51--

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--20cf300fb25d0c807104d3fa3b5b
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

You can control tempo with a midi ex ped.


On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 2:31 PM, Christoph Lehmann <krrrs@gmx.de> wrote:

> You're hinting at feedback?
>
> But it seems to have other interesting functions.
> The specs say most parameters are controllable via midi.
> It would be fantastic if you could assign the tempo fader to a pedal :)
>
>
>
>
> Am 23.01.2013 um 20:21 schrieb Kevin Cheli-Colando:
>
> > But it doesn't have.........
> >
> > :-)
> >
> > Kevin
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 11:17 AM, Christoph Lehmann <krrrs@gmx.de>
> wrote:
> >> Electro Harmonix announced a new Looper !!!
> >> Have a look: http://www.ehx.com/products/45000_
> >>
> >> Chris
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and to have a
> > form. That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all
> trouble.
> >
> > - Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)
> >
>
>

--20cf300fb25d0c807104d3fa3b5b
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<div dir=3D"ltr">You can control tempo with a midi ex ped.<br></div><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 23, 2013=
 at 2:31 PM, Christoph Lehmann <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:krrr=
s@gmx.de" target=3D"_blank">krrrs@gmx.de</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">You&#39;re hinting at feedback?<br>
<br>
But it seems to have other interesting functions.<br>
The specs say most parameters are controllable via midi.<br>
It would be fantastic if you could assign the tempo fader to a pedal :)<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Am 23.01.2013 um 20:21 schrieb Kevin Cheli-Colando:<br>
<br>
&gt; But it doesn&#39;t have.........<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; :-)<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Kevin<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 11:17 AM, Christoph Lehmann &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:krrrs@gmx.de">krrrs@gmx.de</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; Electro Harmonix announced a new Looper !!!<br>
&gt;&gt; Have a look: <a href=3D"http://www.ehx.com/products/45000_" target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.ehx.com/products/45000_</a><br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Chris<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">&gt;<br>
&gt; --<br>
&gt; Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and to have =
a<br>
&gt; form. That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all trou=
ble.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; - Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>

--20cf300fb25d0c807104d3fa3b5b--

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Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 12:11:48 -0800 (PST)
From: Tim Mungenast <tmungenast@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: TC-Ditto fatal flaw
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kudos to you, buzap.
i barely have time to brush my teeth, and here you are doing a test for us.
i appreciate your time, and i look fwd to your findings, even though i am destined for an lp-2.


Tim Mungenast
Editor/Writer/Proofreader: www.linkedin.com/in/timmungenast
Guitarist/Composer/Vocalist: www.reverbnation.com/timmungenast


--- On Wed, 1/23/13, Buzap Buzap <buzap@gmx.net> wrote:

> From: Buzap Buzap <buzap@gmx.net>
> Subject: Re: TC-Ditto fatal flaw
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Date: Wednesday, January 23, 2013, 2:47 PM
> Sure, I always do a first/initial
> review and then in-depth review of gear anyway. :)
> I'll let you know.
> best regards, Buzap
> -------- Original-Nachricht --------
> > Datum: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 17:42:18 +0000
> > Von: andy butler <akbutler@tiscali.co.uk>
> > An: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> > Betreff: Re: TC-Ditto fatal flaw
> 
> > 
> > 
> > Buzap Buzap wrote:
> > > Hi Andy
> > > 
> > > I have just ordered one today - I'll let you
> know!!
> > > 
> > 
> > would you consider writing a review for
> livelooping.org?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > andy
> > 
> 
> 

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Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 12:15:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul Richards <paulrichard_rocks@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: New EHX Multi-Track Looping Recorder announced !
To: "Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>,
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---1131079492-1060105884-1358972108=:45314
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Yeah, well, at least it will be available at some music dealers unlike the prior incarnation (excluding used units on eBay).



Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android


---1131079492-1060105884-1358972108=:45314
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;"><p>Yeah, well, at least it will be available at some music dealers unlike the prior incarnation (excluding used units on eBay).<br><br><br><br></p>
<p>Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android</p>
</td></tr></table>            <div id="_origMsg_">
                <div style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif:font-size:10pt">
                    <br />
                    <div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt">
                        <font size="2" face="Tahoma">
                            <hr size="1">
                            <b>
                                <span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span>
                            </b>
                            Jeff Duke &lt;jeffloops@gmail.com&gt;;                            <br>
                            <b>
                                <span style="font-weight:bold:">To:</span>
                            </b>
                            Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com &lt;Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com&gt;;                                                                                                     <br>
                            <b>
                                <span style="font-weight:bold:">Subject:</span>
                            </b>
                            Re: New EHX Multi-Track Looping Recorder announced !                            <br>
                            <b>
                                <span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span>
                            </b>
                            Wed, Jan 23, 2013 7:59:03 PM                            <br>
                            </font>
                            <br>
                            <table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0">
                                <tbody>
                                    <tr>
                                        <td valign="top" style="font:inherit;"><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div>I am disappointed by it. It is just the same as the 2880 except that you can store your loops for editing and reloading. For me a non interest. It also has an added mono mix monitor output. whoopie! lol<br>
<br></div>Maybe some specs are different but I didn&#39;t notice anything else from a brief look at the manual. <br><br></div>Next please!<br><br></div>Jeff<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">
On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 2:31 PM, Christoph Lehmann <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:krrrs@gmx.de" target="_blank" href="javascript:return">krrrs@gmx.de</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
You&#39;re hinting at feedback?<br>
<br>
But it seems to have other interesting functions.<br>
The specs say most parameters are controllable via midi.<br>
It would be fantastic if you could assign the tempo fader to a pedal :)<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Am 23.01.2013 um 20:21 schrieb Kevin Cheli-Colando:<br>
<br>
&gt; But it doesn&#39;t have.........<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; :-)<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Kevin<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 11:17 AM, Christoph Lehmann &lt;<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:krrrs@gmx.de" target="_blank" href="javascript:return">krrrs@gmx.de</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; Electro Harmonix announced a new Looper !!!<br>
&gt;&gt; Have a look: <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.ehx.com/products/45000_">http://www.ehx.com/products/45000_</a><br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Chris<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">&gt;<br>
&gt; --<br>
&gt; Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and to have a<br>
&gt; form. That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all trouble.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; - Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>
</td>
                                    </tr>
                                </tbody>
                            </table>
                    </div>
                </div>
            </div>

---1131079492-1060105884-1358972108=:45314--

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On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 9:05 PM, Christoph Lehmann <krrrs@gmx.de> wrote:
> From the manual:
>
> "The only parameters you cannot control are L and R INPUT gain knobs and
> HEADPHONE Volume knob. "


Well, that's good. But still, the fact that they didn't use that
phrase in the ad, but rather chose to say "almost", says something ;-)

Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.perboysen.com
http://www.youtube.com/perboysen

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Kevin Cheli-Colando wrote:
> But it doesn't have.........

....anything exciting about it.

2880 with an SD card. Allows you to switch between loops 
but not during playback.
USB to save/restore .wav loops .



andy

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jan 23 20:28:11 2013
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I've been corrected on this several times.. however all of the 
*looping* apps I use activate commands upon release.  The timing 
isn't too hard to accommodate once you expect it.

At 11:00 PM +0100 1/21/13, Z wrote:
>FYI: Well, not really, it depends on how the app was designed on 
>your iOS device.
>Or did I not get your message right?
>;)
>Z
>http://zzz.ch
>http://loopr.net
>
>On 21 janv. 2013, at 22:33, Charles Zwicky <cazwicky@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>  FYI: All iOS devices respond to "button" release rather than press..
>>  just imagine you're filming in reverse...!
>>
>>  At 7:27 PM +0000 1/21/13, andy butler wrote:
>>>  We already had some analysis of the button presses of the TC-Ditto,
>>>  with it impressive functionality from a simple package.
>>>
>>>  Here's something we missed.
>>>
>>>  Once you've recorded a loop and stopped it you have 2 choices
>>>  1) Longpress to Erase
>>>  2) Shortpress to Play
>>>
>>>  Which means that the Play function won't start till the switch is released.
>>>
>>>  Far from ideal if accurate timing is needed.
>>>
>>>  Do TC think guitarists have such poor rhythmic ability that they
>>>  won't notice ;-)
>>>
>>>  andy
>>
>>
>>  --
>>
>>  ...
>>  http://www.zmix.net
>>
>>  http://albumcredits.com/zmix
>>


-- 

...
http://www.zmix.net

http://albumcredits.com/zmix

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Per Boysen wrote:

> Well, that's good. But still, the fact that they didn't use that
> phrase in the ad, but rather chose to say "almost", says something ;-)

Yes, Boss would have said "awesome Midi Control"

andy

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Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 15:31:31 -0500
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: Charles Zwicky <cazwicky@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: New EHX Multi-Track Looping Recorder announced !
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I agree to a point.. I absolutely LOVE my 2880, especially because of 
the physical control over speed, mix and feedback.. but only one loop 
per card is pretty stupid.  I have to use a computer to save and 
recall loops.

At 2:59 PM -0500 1/23/13, Jeff Duke wrote:
>I am disappointed by it. It is just the same as the 2880 except that 
>you can store your loops for editing and reloading. For me a non 
>interest. It also has an added mono mix monitor output. whoopie! lol
>
>Maybe some specs are different but I didn't notice anything else 
>from a brief look at the manual.
>
>Next please!
>
>Jeff
>
>
>
>On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 2:31 PM, Christoph Lehmann 
><<mailto:krrrs@gmx.de>krrrs@gmx.de> wrote:
>
>You're hinting at feedback?
>
>But it seems to have other interesting functions.
>The specs say most parameters are controllable via midi.
>It would be fantastic if you could assign the tempo fader to a pedal :)
>
>
>
>
>Am 23.01.2013 um 20:21 schrieb Kevin Cheli-Colando:
>
>>  But it doesn't have.........
>>
>>  :-)
>>
>>  Kevin
>>
>>  On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 11:17 AM, Christoph Lehmann 
>><<mailto:krrrs@gmx.de>krrrs@gmx.de> wrote:
>>>  Electro Harmonix announced a new Looper !!!
>>>  Have a look: 
>>><http://www.ehx.com/products/45000_>http://www.ehx.com/products/45000_
>>>
>>>  Chris
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  --
>>  Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and to have a
>>  form. That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all trouble.
>>
>>  - Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)
>>


-- 

...
http://www.zmix.net

http://albumcredits.com/zmix
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<html><head><style type="text/css"><!--
blockquote, dl, ul, ol, li { padding-top: 0 ; padding-bottom: 0 }
 --></style><title>Re: New EHX Multi-Track Looping Recorder announced
!</title></head><body>
<div>I agree to a point.. I absolutely LOVE my 2880, especially
because of the physical control over speed, mix and feedback.. but
only one loop per card is pretty stupid.&nbsp; I have to use a
computer to save and recall loops.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>At 2:59 PM -0500 1/23/13, Jeff Duke wrote:</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>I am disappointed by it. It is just the
same as the 2880 except that you can store your loops for editing and
reloading. For me a non interest. It also has an added mono mix
monitor output. whoopie! lol<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Maybe some specs are different but I
didn't notice anything else from a brief look at the manual.<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Next please!<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Jeff<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 2:31 PM,
Christoph Lehmann &lt;<a href="mailto:krrrs@gmx.de">krrrs@gmx.de</a>&gt;
wrote:<br>
<blockquote>You're hinting at feedback?<br>
<br>
But it seems to have other interesting functions.<br>
The specs say most parameters are controllable via midi.<br>
It would be fantastic if you could assign the tempo fader to a pedal
:)<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Am 23.01.2013 um 20:21 schrieb Kevin Cheli-Colando:<br>
<br>
&gt; But it doesn't have.........<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; :-)<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Kevin<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 11:17 AM, Christoph Lehmann &lt;<a
href="mailto:krrrs@gmx.de">krrrs@gmx.de</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; Electro Harmonix announced a new Looper !!!<br>
&gt;&gt; Have a look: <a
href="http://www.ehx.com/products/45000_"
>http://www.ehx.com/products/45000_</a><br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Chris<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
<font color="#888888">&gt;<br>
&gt; --<br>
&gt; Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and to
have a<br>
&gt; form. That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all
trouble.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; - Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)<br>
&gt;</font></blockquote>
</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<x-sigsep><pre>-- 
</pre></x-sigsep>
<div><br>
...<br>
http://www.zmix.net<br>
<br>
http://albumcredits.com/zmix</div>
</body>
</html>
--============_-853149333==_ma============--

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Subject: Re: New EHX Multi-Track Looping Recorder announced !
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Xxxxx wrote:
> wrote:

LOL - isn't it funny how we are totally slagging manufacturers on this
board! Maybe their appeared whimsyness in marketing is business-wise
"spot on" since so few of their targeted customers understand how to
value usefulness in gear?  Just a thougt... :-)

Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.perboysen.com
http://www.youtube.com/perboysen

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Subject: Re: New EHX Multi-Track Looping Recorder announced !
From: Jeff Duke <jeffloops@gmail.com>
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Agreed Chuck! I didn't mean to sound like I didn't like my 2880! Just that
the "new" looper from EHX is a bit misleading and this caused me to be
disappointed :) If I broke down and got a midi controller for the 2880 it
would do even more of what I want it to.

It's just that some of us had suggested upgrades for so long in the forum
and none of them came about.

Jeff


On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 3:31 PM, Charles Zwicky <cazwicky@earthlink.net>wrote:

> **
> I agree to a point.. I absolutely LOVE my 2880, especially because of the
> physical control over speed, mix and feedback.. but only one loop per card
> is pretty stupid.  I have to use a computer to save and recall loops.
>
> At 2:59 PM -0500 1/23/13, Jeff Duke wrote:
>
> I am disappointed by it. It is just the same as the 2880 except that you
> can store your loops for editing and reloading. For me a non interest. It
> also has an added mono mix monitor output. whoopie! lol
>
> Maybe some specs are different but I didn't notice anything else from a
> brief look at the manual.
>
> Next please!
>
> Jeff
>
>

--047d7b6dc0bc40bac504d3fad1ff
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>Agreed Chuck! I didn&#39;t mean to sound like I =
didn&#39;t like my 2880! Just that the &quot;new&quot; looper from EHX is a=
 bit misleading and this caused me to be disappointed :) If I broke down an=
d got a midi controller for the 2880 it would do even more of what I want i=
t to.<br>
<br></div>It&#39;s just that some of us had suggested upgrades for so long =
in the forum and none of them came about.<br><br></div>Jeff<br><div class=
=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at=
 3:31 PM, Charles Zwicky <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cazwicky@e=
arthlink.net" target=3D"_blank">cazwicky@earthlink.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote=
:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
<div>
<div>I agree to a point.. I absolutely LOVE my 2880, especially
because of the physical control over speed, mix and feedback.. but
only one loop per card is pretty stupid.=A0 I have to use a
computer to save and recall loops.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>At 2:59 PM -0500 1/23/13, Jeff Duke wrote:</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">I am disappointed by it. It is just the
same as the 2880 except that you can store your loops for editing and
reloading. For me a non interest. It also has an added mono mix
monitor output. whoopie! lol<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">Maybe some specs are different but I
didn&#39;t notice anything else from a brief look at the manual.<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">Next please!<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">Jeff<br>
</blockquote>

</div>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div>

--047d7b6dc0bc40bac504d3fad1ff--

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Subject: Re: New EHX Multi-Track Looping Recorder announced !
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Hi Jeff,

I was in pretty close communication with EX for the later OS updates 
to the 2880, almost entirely about MIDI, though I was more interested 
in the bugs that would cause the device to freak out while bouncing 
to the "stereo" track.
  I tend to use mine with the factory foot controller, though the midi 
options open up some other possibilities.. My mindset these days is 
pretty minimalistic, and I find the 2880 well suited to less 
manipulative forms of looping.  One great application is to set the 
loop length very very short and use it as a delay, as you switch 
tracks, the delay is "frozen", and the faders allow you to blend the 
textures of these frozen tracks.  It's a 4 track DDL with infinite 
hold..!

-Chuck

>Agreed Chuck! I didn't mean to sound like I didn't like my 2880! 
>Just that the "new" looper from EHX is a bit misleading and this 
>caused me to be disappointed :) If I broke down and got a midi 
>controller for the 2880 it would do even more of what I want it to.
>
>It's just that some of us had suggested upgrades for so long in the 
>forum and none of them came about.
>
>Jeff
>
>
>
>On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 3:31 PM, Charles Zwicky 
><<mailto:cazwicky@earthlink.net>cazwicky@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>I agree to a point.. I absolutely LOVE my 2880, especially because 
>of the physical control over speed, mix and feedback.. but only one 
>loop per card is pretty stupid.  I have to use a computer to save 
>and recall loops.
>
>At 2:59 PM -0500 1/23/13, Jeff Duke wrote:
>
>>I am disappointed by it. It is just the same as the 2880 except 
>>that you can store your loops for editing and reloading. For me a 
>>non interest. It also has an added mono mix monitor output. 
>>whoopie! lol
>>
>Maybe some specs are different but I didn't notice anything else 
>from a brief look at the manual.
>
>Next please!
>
>Jeff


-- 

...
http://www.zmix.net

http://albumcredits.com/zmix
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<html><head><style type="text/css"><!--
blockquote, dl, ul, ol, li { padding-top: 0 ; padding-bottom: 0 }
 --></style><title>Re: New EHX Multi-Track Looping Recorder announced
!</title></head><body>
<div>Hi Jeff,</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>I was in pretty close communication with EX for the later OS
updates to the 2880, almost entirely about MIDI, though I was more
interested in the bugs that would cause the device to freak out while
bouncing to the &quot;stereo&quot; track.</div>
<div>&nbsp;I tend to use mine with the factory foot controller, though
the midi options open up some other possibilities.. My mindset these
days is pretty minimalistic, and I find the 2880 well suited to less
manipulative forms of looping.&nbsp; One great application is to set
the loop length very very short and use it as a delay, as you switch
tracks, the delay is &quot;frozen&quot;, and the faders allow you to
blend the textures of these frozen tracks.&nbsp; It's a 4 track DDL
with infinite hold..!</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>-Chuck</div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Agreed Chuck! I didn't mean to sound like
I didn't like my 2880! Just that the &quot;new&quot; looper from EHX
is a bit misleading and this caused me to be disappointed :) If I
broke down and got a midi controller for the 2880 it would do even
more of what I want it to.<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>It's just that some of us had suggested
upgrades for so long in the forum and none of them came about.<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Jeff<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 3:31 PM, Charles
Zwicky &lt;<a
href="mailto:cazwicky@earthlink.net">cazwicky@earthlink.net</a>&gt;
wrote:<br>
<blockquote>I agree to a point.. I absolutely LOVE my 2880, especially
because of the physical control over speed, mix and feedback.. but
only one loop per card is pretty stupid.&nbsp; I have to use a
computer to save and recall loops.</blockquote>
<blockquote><br></blockquote>
<blockquote>At 2:59 PM -0500 1/23/13, Jeff Duke wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>I am disappointed by it. It is just the
same as the 2880 except that you can store your loops for editing and
reloading. For me a non interest. It also has an added mono mix
monitor output. whoopie! lol<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
<blockquote>Maybe some specs are different but I didn't notice
anything else from a brief look at the manual.<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>Next please!<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>Jeff</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<x-sigsep><pre>-- 
</pre></x-sigsep>
<div><br>
...<br>
http://www.zmix.net<br>
<br>
http://albumcredits.com/zmix</div>
</body>
</html>
--============_-853147750==_ma============--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jan 23 21:07:20 2013
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Charles Zwicky wrote:

> One great application is to set the loop 
> length very very short and use it as a delay, as you switch tracks, the 
> delay is "frozen", and the faders allow you to blend the textures of 
> these frozen tracks.  

Working within the limitations to find something new and interesting.

That' what it's all about.


andy


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Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 13:36:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Tim Mungenast <tmungenast@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: New EHX Multi-Track Looping Recorder announced !
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yep. kind of like the Zoom Player 2100 and its patch that saves 3 short phr=
ases to be accessed by each of the 3 patch-select pedals. (right, herr good=
man? ;-)

Tim Mungenast
Editor/Writer/Proofreader: www.linkedin.com/in/timmungenast
Guitarist/Composer/Vocalist: www.reverbnation.com/timmungenast


--- On Wed, 1/23/13, andy butler <akbutler@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

> From: andy butler <akbutler@tiscali.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: New EHX Multi-Track Looping Recorder announced !
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Date: Wednesday, January 23, 2013, 4:07 PM
>=20
>=20
> Charles Zwicky wrote:
>=20
> > One great application is to set the loop length very
> very short and use it as a delay, as you switch tracks, the
> delay is "frozen", and the faders allow you to blend the
> textures of these frozen tracks.=A0=20
>=20
> Working within the limitations to find something new and
> interesting.
>=20
> That' what it's all about.
>=20
>=20
> andy
>=20
>=20
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jan 23 21:40:59 2013
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On 1/23/2013 10:52 AM, Rainer Straschill wrote:
> http://ftp.eventide.com/h9/index.htm
>
> Seems the tricky thing is that it can run any of the Eventide Stompox 
> algorithms. And it's got an ultratap delay, a true classic for those 
> to whom "looping" means "lots of delays".
>
>          -r
>
"it's incredible"!!!!

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jan 23 21:48:53 2013
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On 1/23/2013 8:40 AM, Anders Bergdahl wrote:
>
> I have managed to fake "quantizised replace" for some LP2, EDP style 
> semi stutter, even loop windowing  of sorts can be done by having a 
> short loop, loop a longer loop.. in fact it is probably a very unique 
> Octatrack feature since you can loop a part of a longer loop several 
> times during the duration of the longer loop. I do this in two way, by 
> having one longer master loop and the setting up a shorter loop that 
> listens t o the longer. OR re-sampling with a "flex machine" which 
> allows me to replay the loop, or parts of it on the sequencer and 
> looper, pitchifts or anything you could imagine taking looping loops 
> from loops to new levels of crazyness.
>
>
> Anders

This is exactly what is very hip about having to work around the 
limitations of equipment.
I love this kind of creativity, Anders!

Rick

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Am 23.01.2013 14:21, schrieb Jeff Duke:
> I just noticed that my Line 6 M9 has a button for undo/redo, never 
> noticed it before!
See? And you all laughed at the marketing approach for the Ditto that 
"everything with more than one button is too complicated for a 
guitarist" :-P

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From: "Teddyjam.com" <teddy@teddyjam.com>
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Whoa.... Game changer

Teddy Kumpel
http://teddyjam.com

On Jan 23, 2013, at 1:40 PM, Rick Walker <looppool@cruzio.com> wrote:

> On 1/23/2013 10:52 AM, Rainer Straschill wrote:
>> http://ftp.eventide.com/h9/index.htm
>>=20
>> Seems the tricky thing is that it can run any of the Eventide Stompox alg=
orithms. And it's got an ultratap delay, a true classic for those to whom "l=
ooping" means "lots of delays".
>>=20
>>         -r
> "it's incredible"!!!!
>=20

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Subject: Re: About the absence of Undo in the Octatrack
From: Jeff Duke <jeffloops@gmail.com>
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Hey I resemble that remark! lol!


On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 5:28 PM, Rainer Thelonius Balthasar Straschill <
moinsound@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Am 23.01.2013 14:21, schrieb Jeff Duke:
>
>> I just noticed that my Line 6 M9 has a button for undo/redo, never
>> noticed it before!
>>
> See? And you all laughed at the marketing approach for the Ditto that
> "everything with more than one button is too complicated for a guitarist"
> :-P
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hey I resemble that remark! lol!<br></div><div class=3D"gm=
ail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 5:28 =
PM, Rainer Thelonius Balthasar Straschill <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:moinsound@googlemail.com" target=3D"_blank">moinsound@googlemail.com=
</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Am 23.01.2013 14:21, schrieb Jeff Duke:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I just noticed that my Line 6 M9 has a button for undo/redo, never noticed =
it before!<br>
</blockquote>
See? And you all laughed at the marketing approach for the Ditto that &quot=
;everything with more than one button is too complicated for a guitarist&qu=
ot; :-P<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

--047d7bdc11e45026e504d3fc422a--

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From: "Teddyjam.com" <teddy@teddyjam.com>
Subject: Re: New EHX Multi-Track Looping Recorder announced !
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 14:40:13 -0800
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Hi chuck!

To me it seems like a boss RC 50 with more solid midi clock  options, an ext=
ra loop and pitch and reverse functions all controllable with your feet

That's exactly what I want in a looper...=20

Does anyone know if we can use the monitor out to send the click only?

Teddy Kumpel
http://teddyjam.com

On Jan 23, 2013, at 12:59 PM, Charles Zwicky <cazwicky@earthlink.net> wrote:=


> Hi Jeff,
>=20
> I was in pretty close communication with EX for the later OS updates to th=
e 2880, almost entirely about MIDI, though I was more interested in the bugs=
 that would cause the device to freak out while bouncing to the "stereo" tra=
ck.
>  I tend to use mine with the factory foot controller, though the midi opti=
ons open up some other possibilities.. My mindset these days is pretty minim=
alistic, and I find the 2880 well suited to less manipulative forms of loopi=
ng. =20
> -Chuck

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---30515679-2058347237-1358977558=:95374
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what is the sound quality?=0AAntony Hequet=0A=0A=0A________________________=
________=0A De=A0: Rick Walker <looppool@cruzio.com>=0A=C0=A0: Rainer Stras=
chill <moinsound@googlemail.com>; LOOPERS DELIGHT (posting) <Loopers-Deligh=
t@loopers-delight.com> =0AEnvoy=E9 le : Mercredi 23 janvier 2013 22h40=0AOb=
jet=A0: Re: Slightly OT: NAMM News from Eventide - H9=0A =0AOn 1/23/2013 10=
:52 AM, Rainer Straschill wrote:=0A> http://ftp.eventide.com/h9/index.htm=
=0A> =0A> Seems the tricky thing is that it can run any of the Eventide Sto=
mpox algorithms. And it's got an ultratap delay, a true classic for those t=
o whom "looping" means "lots of delays".=0A> =0A>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 -r=0A>=
 =0A"it's incredible"!!!!
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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:Co=
urier New, courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><div><spa=
n>what is the sound quality?</span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);=
 font-size: 16px; font-family: 'Courier New', courier, monaco, monospace, s=
ans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; "><span>Anton=
y Hequet</span></div><div><br></div>  <div style=3D"font-family: 'Courier N=
ew', courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; "> <div style=
=3D"font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12=
pt; "> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"> <hr size=3D"1">  =
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;">De&nbsp;:</span></b> Rick Walker &lt;l=
ooppool@cruzio.com&gt;<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">=C0&nbsp;:=
</span></b> Rainer Straschill &lt;moinsound@googlemail.com&gt;; LOOPERS DEL=
IGHT (posting) &lt;Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com&gt; <br> <b><span
 style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Envoy=E9 le :</span></b> Mercredi 23 janvier =
2013 22h40<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Objet&nbsp;:</span></b=
> Re: Slightly OT: NAMM News from Eventide - H9<br> </font> </div> <br>On 1=
/23/2013 10:52 AM, Rainer Straschill wrote:<br>&gt; <a href=3D"http://ftp.e=
ventide.com/h9/index.htm" target=3D"_blank">http://ftp.eventide.com/h9/inde=
x.htm</a><br>&gt; <br>&gt; Seems the tricky thing is that it can run any of=
 the Eventide Stompox algorithms. And it's got an ultratap delay, a true cl=
assic for those to whom "looping" means "lots of delays".<br>&gt; <br>&gt;&=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -r<br>&gt; <br>"it's incredible"!!!!<br><=
br><br><br> </div> </div>  </div></body></html>
---30515679-2058347237-1358977558=:95374--

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On 1/23/2013 11:59 AM, Jeff Duke wrote:
> I am disappointed by it. It is just the same as the 2880 except that 
> you can store your loops for editing and reloading. For me a non 
> interest. It also has an added mono mix monitor output. whoopie! lol
>
> Maybe some specs are different but I didn't notice anything else from 
> a brief look at the manual.

Did the original have the ability to tune loops over 2 octaves.
That's a huge plus in  my work and made me excited.

also,  it has synced or unsynced loops.   Isn't that an improvement, too?
I don't know the original unit but have heard people talk about it.

yours,   Rick

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On 1/23/2013 5:21 AM, Jeff Duke wrote:
> I just noticed that my Line 6 M9 has a button for undo/redo, never 
> noticed it before!
>
>
That's hilarious, Jeff.

In my own work (and I own an M-9 and use it live) I'm so used to the 
architecture
of the LP-1 (and now the LP-2) that I got really into creating seamless 
overdubs so that if
I ever UDNO a loop (or five) I am also thinking ahead of the game and 
ready to re-record something
quickly.

That said and done, the single RE-DO on the M-9 is useful if you are 
playing a second instrument
in a performance and you suddenly want to bring in that part that you 
eliminated with an UNDO
to suddenly fill things out.

Another thought about UNDO is that I rarely use very many layers in my 
looping anyway,
so I actually don't use a lot of UNDO in my playing, though glad Bob put 
that feature into
the LP-2.

With the exception of ambient music where lots of smeary layers are a 
plus,   I think that a lot of
loopers forget that everyone in a sextet has to play commensurately less 
and simpler parts
to make an arrangement really powerful than in a duo or trio.

So many loopers at the festival,   Lili Lewis and Jerry Barnes come to 
mind immediately
played pieces of music with a single loop and then played over it , 
beautifully so
there's a lot of potential in minimalism whilst looping.

It, of course, is not the only way to go, and all forms of expression 
are , of course, valid,
but I find that if I keep my loop count down that there is directness in 
the simplicity.

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Message-ID: <CADRydNpycdzp+J-k4U3LgVvLmERXnc_LjT78QbP3ikCoc0f7hg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: EHX 45000 multi-track looper
From: Scott Hansen <evanpeewee@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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--e89a8fb1f27a5398fb04d3fe5312
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

wasn't sure if anyone saw this:

http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/Issue/Daily/News/Electro_Harmonix_Announces_45000_Multi_Track_Looper_and_Random_Tone_Generator.aspx

looks interesting and pricey. was hoping they'd go a different
direction.....

--e89a8fb1f27a5398fb04d3fe5312
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

wasn&#39;t sure if anyone saw this:<br><br><a href=3D"http://www.premiergui=
tar.com/Magazine/Issue/Daily/News/Electro_Harmonix_Announces_45000_Multi_Tr=
ack_Looper_and_Random_Tone_Generator.aspx">http://www.premierguitar.com/Mag=
azine/Issue/Daily/News/Electro_Harmonix_Announces_45000_Multi_Track_Looper_=
and_Random_Tone_Generator.aspx</a><br>
<br>looks interesting and pricey. was hoping they&#39;d go a different dire=
ction.....<br>

--e89a8fb1f27a5398fb04d3fe5312--

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Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 20:07:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Tim Mungenast <tmungenast@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Re: New EHX Multi-Track Looping Recorder announced !
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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=0AIf production of the LP2 ceases before I can get one, this EHX is my nex=
t choice. The reverse and pitch are big deals for me!!=0A=0ATim Mungenast=
=0AEditor/Writer/Proofreader: www.linkedin.com/in/timmungenast=0AGuitarist/=
Composer/Vocalist: www.reverbnation.com/timmungenast=0A=0A=0A--- On Wed, 1/=
23/13, Rick Walker <looppool@cruzio.com> wrote:=0A=0A> From: Rick Walker <l=
ooppool@cruzio.com>=0A> Subject: Re: Re: New EHX Multi-Track Looping Record=
er announced !=0A> To: "Jeff Duke" <jeffloops@gmail.com>, "LOOPERS DELIGHT =
(posting)" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>=0A> Date: Wednesday, Janua=
ry 23, 2013, 4:59 PM=0A> On 1/23/2013 11:59 AM, Jeff Duke=0A> wrote:=0A> > =
I am disappointed by it. It is just the same as the=0A> 2880 except that yo=
u can store your loops for editing and=0A> reloading. For me a non interest=
. It also has an added mono=0A> mix monitor output. whoopie! lol=0A> > =0A>=
 > Maybe some specs are different but I didn't notice=0A> anything else fro=
m a brief look at the manual.=0A> =0A> Did the original have the ability to=
 tune loops over 2=0A> octaves.=0A> That's a huge plus in=A0 my work and ma=
de me excited.=0A> =0A> also,=A0 it has synced or unsynced=0A> loops.=A0=A0=
=A0Isn't that an improvement, too?=0A> I don't know the original unit but h=
ave heard people talk=0A> about it.=0A> =0A> yours,=A0=A0=A0Rick=0A> =0A> 

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Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 20:10:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Tim Mungenast <tmungenast@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Directness in Simplicity
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=0AOne loop always worked for me... but then I always had trouble getting t=
he timing right for more than one, so it's more MY limitation than the box'=
s.=0A=0ATim Mungenast=0AEditor/Writer/Proofreader: www.linkedin.com/in/timm=
ungenast=0AGuitarist/Composer/Vocalist: www.reverbnation.com/timmungenast=
=0A=0A=0A--- On Wed, 1/23/13, Rick Walker <looppool@cruzio.com> wrote:=0A=
=0A> From: Rick Walker <looppool@cruzio.com>=0A> Subject: Directness in Sim=
plicity=0A> To: "Jeff Duke" <jeffloops@gmail.com>, "LOOPERS DELIGHT (postin=
g)" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>=0A> Date: Wednesday, January 23, =
2013, 5:13 PM=0A> On 1/23/2013 5:21 AM, Jeff Duke=0A> wrote:=0A> > I just n=
oticed that my Line 6 M9 has a button for=0A> undo/redo, never noticed it b=
efore!=0A> > =0A> > =0A> That's hilarious, Jeff.=0A> =0A> In my own work (a=
nd I own an M-9 and use it live) I'm so=0A> used to the architecture=0A> of=
 the LP-1 (and now the LP-2) that I got really into=0A> creating seamless o=
verdubs so that if=0A> I ever UDNO a loop (or five) I am also thinking ahea=
d of the=0A> game and ready to re-record something=0A> quickly.=0A> =0A> Th=
at said and done, the single RE-DO on the M-9 is useful if=0A> you are play=
ing a second instrument=0A> in a performance and you suddenly want to bring=
 in that part=0A> that you eliminated with an UNDO=0A> to suddenly fill thi=
ngs out.=0A> =0A> Another thought about UNDO is that I rarely use very many=
=0A> layers in my looping anyway,=0A> so I actually don't use a lot of UNDO=
 in my playing, though=0A> glad Bob put that feature into=0A> the LP-2.=0A>=
 =0A> With the exception of ambient music where lots of smeary=0A> layers a=
re a plus,=A0=A0=A0I think that a lot of=0A> loopers forget that everyone i=
n a sextet has to play=0A> commensurately less and simpler parts=0A> to mak=
e an arrangement really powerful than in a duo or=0A> trio.=0A> =0A> So man=
y loopers at the festival,=A0=A0=A0Lili Lewis=0A> and Jerry Barnes come to =
mind immediately=0A> played pieces of music with a single loop and then pla=
yed=0A> over it , beautifully so=0A> there's a lot of potential in minimali=
sm whilst looping.=0A> =0A> It, of course, is not the only way to go, and a=
ll forms of=0A> expression are , of course, valid,=0A> but I find that if I=
 keep my loop count down that there is=0A> directness in the simplicity.=0A=
> =0A> 

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From: Ben <benoitruelle@yahoo.fr>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 09:57:21 +0100
Subject: Re: Slightly OT: NAMM News from Eventide - H9
In-Reply-To: <3E8F126C-B17F-4BB2-9CC3-20B4DE1FE03B@teddyjam.com>
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The Tc electronic toneprint free editor might be a game changer too:
http://www.tcelectronic.com/toneprint-editor/

Now (well in some weeks) you wil customize your delay pedal ;-)

ben


--------------------------------------------------
"Teddyjam.com" <teddy@teddyjam.com> wrote:
(23/01/2013 23:30)

> Whoa.... Game changer
> 
> Teddy Kumpel
> http://teddyjam.com
> 
> On Jan 23, 2013, at 1:40 PM, Rick Walker <looppool@cruzio.com> wrote:
> 
> > On 1/23/2013 10:52 AM, Rainer Straschill wrote:
> >> http://ftp.eventide.com/h9/index.htm
> >> 
> >> Seems the tricky thing is that it can run any of the Eventide Stompox algorithms. And it's got an ultratap delay, a true classic for those to whom "looping" means "lots of delays".
> >> 
> >>         -r
> > "it's incredible"!!!!
> > 

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Subject: Re: Directness in Simplicity
From: Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com>
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I too like working one loop, for "directness and simplicity" to quote
the subject line. I've recently used two loops but then running in
parallel and controlled by the same pedals just as if the were "one
loop". But when of different length they tend to fight back a bit
anyway :-))  as in the example http://youtu.be/tzZRpC4TjHg

Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.perboysen.com
http://www.youtube.com/perboysen


On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 5:10 AM, Tim Mungenast <tmungenast@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> One loop always worked for me... but then I always had trouble getting the timing right for more than one, so it's more MY limitation than the box's.
>
> Tim Mungenast
> Editor/Writer/Proofreader: www.linkedin.com/in/timmungenast
> Guitarist/Composer/Vocalist: www.reverbnation.com/timmungenast
>
>
> --- On Wed, 1/23/13, Rick Walker <looppool@cruzio.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Rick Walker <looppool@cruzio.com>
>> Subject: Directness in Simplicity
>> To: "Jeff Duke" <jeffloops@gmail.com>, "LOOPERS DELIGHT (posting)" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
>> Date: Wednesday, January 23, 2013, 5:13 PM
>> On 1/23/2013 5:21 AM, Jeff Duke
>> wrote:
>> > I just noticed that my Line 6 M9 has a button for
>> undo/redo, never noticed it before!
>> >
>> >
>> That's hilarious, Jeff.
>>
>> In my own work (and I own an M-9 and use it live) I'm so
>> used to the architecture
>> of the LP-1 (and now the LP-2) that I got really into
>> creating seamless overdubs so that if
>> I ever UDNO a loop (or five) I am also thinking ahead of the
>> game and ready to re-record something
>> quickly.
>>
>> That said and done, the single RE-DO on the M-9 is useful if
>> you are playing a second instrument
>> in a performance and you suddenly want to bring in that part
>> that you eliminated with an UNDO
>> to suddenly fill things out.
>>
>> Another thought about UNDO is that I rarely use very many
>> layers in my looping anyway,
>> so I actually don't use a lot of UNDO in my playing, though
>> glad Bob put that feature into
>> the LP-2.
>>
>> With the exception of ambient music where lots of smeary
>> layers are a plus,   I think that a lot of
>> loopers forget that everyone in a sextet has to play
>> commensurately less and simpler parts
>> to make an arrangement really powerful than in a duo or
>> trio.
>>
>> So many loopers at the festival,   Lili Lewis
>> and Jerry Barnes come to mind immediately
>> played pieces of music with a single loop and then played
>> over it , beautifully so
>> there's a lot of potential in minimalism whilst looping.
>>
>> It, of course, is not the only way to go, and all forms of
>> expression are , of course, valid,
>> but I find that if I keep my loop count down that there is
>> directness in the simplicity.
>>
>>
>

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On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com> wrote:

> I've recently used two loops but then running in
> parallel and controlled by the same pedals just as if the were "one
> loop". But when of different length they tend to fight back a bit
> anyway :-))  as in the example http://youtu.be/tzZRpC4TjHg
>

This is a great technique Per, I do the same with 2 EDPs,
by having the standard EDP pedal plugged into both EDPs via a splitter,
Make a loop on both, using front panel, or my midi pedalboard, but of 2
different lengths, 4 cycles on oneand 6 on the other for example, then
using replace on the EDP pedal, it inserts onto both loops, but the parts
com back out of synch polyrythmicaly, but as they are exact divisions its
always musically useful.

M


-- 
*Mark Francombe*
www.markfrancombe.com
www.ordoabkhao.com
http://vimeo.com/user825094
http://www.looop.no
twitter @markfrancombe
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Per Boysen <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:perboysen@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">perboysen@gmail.com</a>&g=
t;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div id=3D":1ah"> I&#39;ve recently used two=
 loops but then running in<br>
parallel and controlled by the same pedals just as if the were &quot;one<br=
>
loop&quot;. But when of different length they tend to fight back a bit<br>
anyway :-)) =A0as in the example <a href=3D"http://youtu.be/tzZRpC4TjHg" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">http://youtu.be/tzZRpC4TjHg</a></div></blockquote></div><br=
>This is a great technique Per, I do the same with 2 EDPs, by=A0having=A0th=
e=A0standard=A0EDP pedal plugged into both EDPs via a splitter, Make a loop=
 on both, using front panel, or my midi pedalboard, but of 2 different leng=
ths, 4 cycles on oneand 6 on the other for example, then using replace on t=
he EDP pedal, it inserts onto both loops, but the parts com back out of syn=
ch polyrythmicaly, but as they are exact=A0divisions=A0its always=A0musical=
ly=A0useful.</div>

<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">M<br><br cl=
ear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><i style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-seri=
f;color:rgb(255,255,255);background-color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font style=3D"font-f=
amily:trebuchet ms,sans-serif" size=3D"4"><u>Mark Francombe</u></font></i><=
br>

<font size=3D"1"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.markfra=
ncombe.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.markfrancombe.com</a><br style=3D"color:=
rgb(51,0,51)"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.ordoabkhao=
.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.ordoabkhao.com</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,=
51)">

<a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://vimeo.com/user825094" target=
=3D"_blank">http://vimeo.com/user825094</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)"=
><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.looop.no/" target=3D"_b=
lank">http://www.looop.no</a><br>

twitter @markfrancombe<br><a href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@=
N00/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/</a><br><=
/font>
</div></div>

--047d7b10c86170fba304d4076d82--

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Subject: Re: Re: New EHX Multi-Track Looping Recorder announced !
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Hi,
I own a 2880 + foot switch, and I use it with a Yamaha midi foot switch.

If any questions on the 2880, don't hesitate (but sorry for my poor English=
 writing).

I can see other major differences between the 2880 and the 45000 :
- SD cards instead of CF cards
- "foot switch" instead of "foot controller" : perhaps it is only a change =
in the name, but in my opinion, it is more : probably as for the HOG II, a =
new foot controller with memories and=20
dysplay!...

Best Regards from France, Marc

Le mer 23/01/13 22:59, Rick Walker looppool@cruzio.com a =C3=A9crit:
> On 1/23/2013 11:59 AM, Jeff Duke wrote:
> > I am disappointed by it. It is just the same as the
> 2880 except that=20
> you can store your loops for editing and reloading.
> For me a non=20
> interest. It also has an added mono mix monitor
> output. whoopie! lol
>
> > Maybe some specs are different but I didn't notice
> anything else from=20
> a brief look at the manual.
>=20
> Did the original have the ability to tune loops over 2 octaves.
> That's a huge plus in  my work and made me excited.
>=20
> also,  it has synced or unsynced loops.   Isn't that an improvement,
> too?
I don't know the original unit but have heard people talk about it.
>=20
> yours,   Rick
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20


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Subject: Re: Slightly OT: NAMM News from Eventide - H9
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Now if they would just make something for designing your own looper
pedal.....

Jeff

On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 3:57 AM, Ben <benoitruelle@yahoo.fr> wrote:

> The Tc electronic toneprint free editor might be a game changer too:
> http://www.tcelectronic.com/toneprint-editor/
>
> Now (well in some weeks) you wil customize your delay pedal ;-)
>
> ben
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> "Teddyjam.com" <teddy@teddyjam.com> wrote:
> (23/01/2013 23:30)
>
> > Whoa.... Game changer
> >
> > Teddy Kumpel
> > http://teddyjam.com
> >
> > On Jan 23, 2013, at 1:40 PM, Rick Walker <looppool@cruzio.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On 1/23/2013 10:52 AM, Rainer Straschill wrote:
> > >> http://ftp.eventide.com/h9/index.htm
> > >>
> > >> Seems the tricky thing is that it can run any of the Eventide Stompox
> algorithms. And it's got an ultratap delay, a true classic for those to
> whom "looping" means "lots of delays".
> > >>
> > >>         -r
> > > "it's incredible"!!!!
> > >
>
>

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Now if they would just make something for designing your own looper pedal..=
...<br><br>Jeff<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 3=
:57 AM, Ben <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:benoitruelle@yahoo.fr" =
target=3D"_blank">benoitruelle@yahoo.fr</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">The Tc electronic toneprint free editor migh=
t be a game changer too:<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.tcelectronic.com/toneprint-editor/" target=3D"_blank"=
>http://www.tcelectronic.com/toneprint-editor/</a><br>
<br>
Now (well in some weeks) you wil customize your delay pedal ;-)<br>
<br>
ben<br>
<br>
<br>
--------------------------------------------------<br>
&quot;Teddyjam.com&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:teddy@teddyjam.com">teddy@te=
ddyjam.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
(23/01/2013 23:30)<br>
<br>
&gt; Whoa.... Game changer<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Teddy Kumpel<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"http://teddyjam.com" target=3D"_blank">http://teddyjam.com<=
/a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On Jan 23, 2013, at 1:40 PM, Rick Walker &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:looppoo=
l@cruzio.com">looppool@cruzio.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; On 1/23/2013 10:52 AM, Rainer Straschill wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"http://ftp.eventide.com/h9/index.htm" target=3D"_b=
lank">http://ftp.eventide.com/h9/index.htm</a><br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; Seems the tricky thing is that it can run any of the Eventide=
 Stompox algorithms. And it&#39;s got an ultratap delay, a true classic for=
 those to whom &quot;looping&quot; means &quot;lots of delays&quot;.<br>

&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 -r<br>
&gt; &gt; &quot;it&#39;s incredible&quot;!!!!<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br>

--20cf300fb36fe49d0004d40ad1bb--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jan 24 16:59:28 2013
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From: TripleOhNine <3x09@carlsonarts.com>
Subject: Re: Directness in Simplicity
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 08:59:23 -0800
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I find that I am constantly trying to find ways to utilize more than one =
loop in order to create looping arrangements of more complex pieces, but =
when it comes down to it, I should probably stick to one loop and just =
make simpler arrangements that use changes in texture, harmony and vocal =
"instrumentation" rather than changes in harmony.  If I could at least =
get some sort of pitch shifting to work it would be great, though. =20

Michael Carlson
3x09=

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From: TripleOhNine <3x09@carlsonarts.com>
Subject: Re: Directness in Simplicity
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 09:01:49 -0800
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oops i meant rather than changes in structure.


On Jan 24, 2013, at 8:59 AM, TripleOhNine wrote:

> rather than changes in harmony

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Subject: Re: Slightly OT: NAMM News from Eventide - H9
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That would be awesome! I still want a cross-fade looper :P

Chrissie

On 24/01/13 15:54, Jeff Duke wrote:
> Now if they would just make something for designing your own looper
> pedal.....
>
> Jeff
>
> On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 3:57 AM, Ben <benoitruelle@yahoo.fr
> <mailto:benoitruelle@yahoo.fr>> wrote:
>
>     The Tc electronic toneprint free editor might be a game changer too:
>     http://www.tcelectronic.com/toneprint-editor/
>
>     Now (well in some weeks) you wil customize your delay pedal ;-)
>
>     ben
>
>
>     --------------------------------------------------
>     "Teddyjam.com" <teddy@teddyjam.com <mailto:teddy@teddyjam.com>> wrote:
>     (23/01/2013 23:30)
>
>      > Whoa.... Game changer
>      >
>      > Teddy Kumpel
>      > http://teddyjam.com
>      >
>      > On Jan 23, 2013, at 1:40 PM, Rick Walker <looppool@cruzio.com
>     <mailto:looppool@cruzio.com>> wrote:
>      >
>      > > On 1/23/2013 10:52 AM, Rainer Straschill wrote:
>      > >> http://ftp.eventide.com/h9/index.htm
>      > >>
>      > >> Seems the tricky thing is that it can run any of the Eventide
>     Stompox algorithms. And it's got an ultratap delay, a true classic
>     for those to whom "looping" means "lots of delays".
>      > >>
>      > >>         -r
>      > > "it's incredible"!!!!
>      > >
>
>


-- 
Chrissie

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Subject: Re: Directness in Simplicity
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You can still make some complex arrangements in one loop. Just be
nifty with loop length when layering! If for example your first loop
is four beats long and you want accompany it with a repeating three
beat long loop the simple math gives that you should add the
three-beat pattern while multiplying the four beat loop "x3". Then
both patterns will meat again on each twelfth beat as the loop turns
around. Just one example.

Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.perboysen.com
http://www.youtube.com/perboysen


On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 5:59 PM, TripleOhNine <3x09@carlsonarts.com> wrote:
> I find that I am constantly trying to find ways to utilize more than one =
loop in order to create looping arrangements of more complex pieces, but wh=
en it comes down to it, I should probably stick to one loop and just make s=
impler arrangements that use changes in texture, harmony and vocal "instrum=
entation" rather than changes in harmony.  If I could at least get some sor=
t of pitch shifting to work it would be great, though.
>
> Michael Carlson
> 3x09

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Subject: Listen to Galactic Travels
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GALACTIC TRAVELS ON WDIY: http://galactictravels.info
=======================================================================
Tonight at 11 pm EST/GMT-5 on Galactic Travels, I'll continue the
month-long Special Focus on Mystified.  The Featured CD at Midnight
will be "Life is a Carnival" on Attenuation Circuit Records.  The
Special Focus page is at:
http://soundscapes.us/gt/playlists/2013/focus.html#jan

Galactic Travels is an electronic, ambient, and space music show that
airs each Thursday at 11:04 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and
Bethlehem, 93.9 FM in Easton and Phillipsburg, 93.7 FM in Fogelsville
and Trexlertown, on the internet, and in High Definition Radio at 88.1
FM.  Listen at http://wdiy.org on the internet.

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Subject: feedback issue with mics in live performance
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--20cf3066817bfa949304d41427ba
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hello everyone!  so nice to find a community of like-minded cats.

so i'm trying to loop real drums in my live show, with two mics, and they
are picking up a bunch of feedback and adding it to the loop, so the sound
is quite degraded after 2 or 3 layers.  anybody had success dealing with
this issue?  or is what i'm trying impossible?  i'm not using any monitors
at all.

thanks!
ben

--20cf3066817bfa949304d41427ba
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<div dir=3D"ltr">hello everyone! =A0so nice to find a community of like-min=
ded cats.<div><br></div><div>so i&#39;m trying to loop real drums in my liv=
e show, with two mics, and they are picking up a bunch of feedback and addi=
ng it to the loop, so the sound is quite degraded after 2 or 3 layers. =A0a=
nybody had success dealing with this issue? =A0or is what i&#39;m trying im=
possible? =A0i&#39;m not using any monitors at all.</div>
<div><br></div><div style>thanks!</div><div style>ben</div></div>

--20cf3066817bfa949304d41427ba--

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Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 00:46:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Uccello <stevebassbird@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: Steve Uccello <stevebassbird@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: feedback issue with mics in live performance
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---1600601909-1845060161-1359103592=:27847
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Ben,=0A=0Aseems like you'd want to use more than two, and try some kind of =
clip on mic like this:=0A=0Ahttp://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/E604/=0A=
=0A=0Aalso a good old sm 57 has great rejection and could make a good hi-ha=
t mic. =A0but looping with mics is really tricky for instruments, it seems =
like there's no way to get around bleed though, even if you can get around =
the feedback issue. =A0Depending on hw loud you want to be, I'd probably ge=
t a set of clip-ons mics and a little mixer like this:=0A=0Ahttp://www.swee=
twater.com/store/detail/802VLZ3=0A=0A=0APut all the mics into it and send t=
he outs to your looper, that way you can have the option to eq stuff to be =
less problematic, low cuts can help a lot. you could also pursue contact mi=
cs like these really inexpensive ones:=0A=0Ahttp://www.cranksturgeon.com/PI=
EZOCRANK.html=0A=0A=0Abut then your sound quality is going to get a bit nas=
al and you might just want to go for an electric drum kit. =A0If you can fi=
nd something with sounds you like an electric drum kit would be the way to =
go, unless you're really set on an acoustic kit.=0A=0AI play upright bass w=
ith the bow a lot and loop, so I've been through a bunch of issues with ble=
ed through and feed back. =A0But capturing the arco tone was really importa=
nt to me. =A0I eventually came to a custom built, onboard 2 piezo/1 mic sys=
tem on my bass. =A0=0A=0AI also loop with a little frame drum armed with a =
crank sturgeon contact mic and that works pretty well for me. It can go pre=
tty loud and sounds good. =A0I'm sure some of the other folks on this list =
who are drummers can offer you some more detailed advice-I hope this helps =
and good luck!=0A=0ASteve Uccello=0A=0Awww.steveuccello.com=A0=0A=0A=0A____=
____________________________=0A From: Ben Walsh <thefriendliestbunnyrabbit@=
gmail.com>=0ATo: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com =0ASent: Thursday, Jan=
uary 24, 2013 7:02 PM=0ASubject: feedback issue with mics in live performan=
ce=0A =0A=0Ahello everyone! =A0so nice to find a community of like-minded c=
ats.=0A=0Aso i'm trying to loop real drums in my live show, with two mics, =
and they are picking up a bunch of feedback and adding it to the loop, so t=
he sound is quite degraded after 2 or 3 layers. =A0anybody had success deal=
ing with this issue? =A0or is what i'm trying impossible? =A0i'm not using =
any monitors at all.=0A=0Athanks!=0Aben
---1600601909-1845060161-1359103592=:27847
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:ar=
ial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:14pt"><div><span>Ben,</span></div><div=
 style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 19px; font-family: arial, helveti=
ca, sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; "><span>=
<br></span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 19px; font-f=
amily: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-st=
yle: normal; "><span>seems like you'd want to use more than two, and try so=
me kind of clip on mic like this:</span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0=
, 0); font-size: 19px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; backgroun=
d-color: transparent; font-style: normal; "><span><br></span></div><div sty=
le=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 19px; font-family: arial, helvetica, =
sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; "><span>http=
://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/E604/<br></span></div><div style=3D"colo=
r:
 rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 19px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; =
background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; "><span><br></span></div=
><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 19px; font-family: arial, he=
lvetica, sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; "><=
span>also a good old sm 57 has great rejection and could make a good hi-hat=
 mic. &nbsp;but looping with mics is really tricky for instruments, it seem=
s like there's no way to get around bleed though, even if you can get aroun=
d the feedback issue. &nbsp;Depending on hw loud you want to be, I'd probab=
ly get a set of clip-ons mics and a little mixer like this:</span></div><di=
v style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 19px; font-family: arial, helvet=
ica, sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; "><span=
><br></span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 19px; font-=
family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: transparent;
 font-style: normal; "><span>http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/802VLZ3=
<br></span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 19px; font-f=
amily: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-st=
yle: normal; "><span><br></span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); fo=
nt-size: 19px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color:=
 transparent; font-style: normal; "><span>Put all the mics into it and send=
 the outs to your looper, that way you can have the option to eq stuff to b=
e less problematic, low cuts can help a lot. you could also pursue contact =
mics like these really inexpensive ones:</span></div><div style=3D"color: r=
gb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 19px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; ba=
ckground-color: transparent; font-style: normal; "><span><br></span></div><=
div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 19px; font-family: arial, helv=
etica, sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;
 "><span>http://www.cranksturgeon.com/PIEZOCRANK.html<br></span></div><div =
style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 19px; font-family: arial, helvetic=
a, sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; "><br></d=
iv><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 19px; font-family: arial, =
helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; "=
>but then your sound quality is going to get a bit nasal and you might just=
 want to go for an electric drum kit. &nbsp;If you can find something with =
sounds you like an electric drum kit would be the way to go, unless you're =
really set on an acoustic kit.</div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font=
-size: 19px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: t=
ransparent; font-style: normal; "><br></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-size: 19px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; background-=
color: transparent; font-style: normal; ">I play upright bass with the bow =
a
 lot and loop, so I've been through a bunch of issues with bleed through an=
d feed back. &nbsp;But capturing the arco tone was really important to me. =
&nbsp;I eventually came to a custom built, onboard 2 piezo/1 mic system on =
my bass. &nbsp;</div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 19px; fo=
nt-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: transparent; fon=
t-style: normal; "><br></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: =
19px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: transpar=
ent; font-style: normal; ">I also loop with a little frame drum armed with =
a crank sturgeon contact mic and that works pretty well for me. It can go p=
retty loud and sounds good. &nbsp;I'm sure some of the other folks on this =
list who are drummers can offer you some more detailed advice-I hope this h=
elps and good luck!</div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 19px=
; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color:
 transparent; font-style: normal; "><br></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0=
, 0); font-size: 19px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; backgroun=
d-color: transparent; font-style: normal; ">Steve Uccello</div><div style=
=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 19px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sa=
ns-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; "><br></div><d=
iv style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 19px; font-family: arial, helve=
tica, sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; ">www.=
steveuccello.com&nbsp;</div><div><br></div>  <div style=3D"font-size: 14pt;=
 font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; "> <div style=3D"font-size: 12p=
t; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; "> <div dir=3D=
"ltr"> <font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"> <hr size=3D"1">  <b><span style=3D"=
font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Ben Walsh &lt;thefriendliestbunnyrabbit=
@gmail.com&gt;<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b>
 Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com <br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bo=
ld;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, January 24, 2013 7:02 PM<br> <b><span style=
=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> feedback issue with mics in liv=
e performance<br> </font> </div> <br><div id=3D"yiv20196619"><div dir=3D"lt=
r">hello everyone! &nbsp;so nice to find a community of like-minded cats.<d=
iv><br></div><div>so i'm trying to loop real drums in my live show, with tw=
o mics, and they are picking up a bunch of feedback and adding it to the lo=
op, so the sound is quite degraded after 2 or 3 layers. &nbsp;anybody had s=
uccess dealing with this issue? &nbsp;or is what i'm trying impossible? &nb=
sp;i'm not using any monitors at all.</div>=0A<div><br></div><div style=3D"=
">thanks!</div><div style=3D"">ben</div></div>=0A</div><br><br> </div> </di=
v>  </div></body></html>
---1600601909-1845060161-1359103592=:27847--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jan 25 09:59:56 2013
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Subject: How to properly train "live" looping at home?
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Hello everybody=2C

I need your feedback and experience=2C suggestions etc=2C about something I=
 am seeing in my rehearsals.
Two things I notice.
First=2C it's very difficult for me to create a method for learning/rehears=
ing=2C and follow it with discipline without falling in the temptation of w=
anting "results".
So I never understand if I must be creative in my learning process=2C or if=
 I must be patient and methodic.
You know=2C you want to learn guitar or drums=2C you must accept that you w=
ill have to repeat and repeat beats=2C chords=2C training=2C boring things=
=2C and if you try immediately just to play things=2C you will not learn we=
ll.
This is what I was told.
What do you think?
In my case=2C I am learning just the looping itself=2C and the loopers. I p=
lay no instrument=2C I sing and beatbox=2C and then use synths.

Second=2C I notice that when I rehears I tend to search for a "final result=
"=2C as if I am composing a theme with Cubase=2C something finished=2C a co=
mposition which must be all there in the looper. And so I lose myself becau=
se to do this I need lot of tracks and separate loops and patterns and chan=
ge of patterns=2C or I have something boring and static.
But at same time this happens while I am supposedly training for live loopi=
ng performances where I will mostly improvise! So this is confusing me.
And I guess that this can also be part of why I was so concerned about the =
undo/redo thing in the Octatrack. I mean=2C maybe if I just train with the =
intention and attitude of a live improvised music performance=2C where not =
all stays in the looper=2C you just loop some things=2C and above them you =
play real time=2C solo=2C not looped parts.
I suppose that this may be happening because I am not so good musician so I=
 try to give to the machine as many responsabilities as possible and to avo=
id me doing things in real time. But if all is looped=2C it is quite=2C cir=
cular=2C boring.

What can you suggest me to avoid this=2C and be able to be more effective i=
n my learning process rehearsing at home?

Thanks!!!

Ser
 		 	   		  =

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<html>
<head>
<style><!--
.hmmessage P
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body.hmmessage
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font-size: 10pt=3B
font-family:Tahoma
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<body class=3D'hmmessage'><div dir=3D'ltr'>
Hello everybody=2C<br><br>I need your feedback and experience=2C suggestion=
s etc=2C about something I am seeing in my rehearsals.<br>Two things I noti=
ce.<br>First=2C it's very difficult for me to create a method for learning/=
rehearsing=2C and follow it with discipline without falling in the temptati=
on of wanting "results".<br>So I never understand if I must be creative in =
my learning process=2C or if I must be patient and methodic.<br>You know=2C=
 you want to learn guitar or drums=2C you must accept that you will have to=
 repeat and repeat beats=2C chords=2C training=2C boring things=2C and if y=
ou try immediately just to play things=2C you will not learn well.<br>This =
is what I was told.<br>What do you think?<br>In my case=2C I am learning ju=
st the looping itself=2C and the loopers. I play no instrument=2C I sing an=
d beatbox=2C and then use synths.<br><br>Second=2C I notice that when I reh=
ears I tend to search for a "final result"=2C as if I am composing a theme =
with Cubase=2C something finished=2C a composition which must be all there =
in the looper. And so I lose myself because to do this I need lot of tracks=
 and separate loops and patterns and change of patterns=2C or I have someth=
ing boring and static.<br>But at same time this happens while I am supposed=
ly training for live looping performances where I will mostly improvise! So=
 this is confusing me.<br>And I guess that this can also be part of why I w=
as so concerned about the undo/redo thing in the Octatrack. I mean=2C maybe=
 if I just train with the intention and attitude of a live improvised music=
 performance=2C where not all stays in the looper=2C you just loop some thi=
ngs=2C and above them you play real time=2C solo=2C not looped parts.<br>I =
suppose that this may be happening because I am not so good musician so I t=
ry to give to the machine as many responsabilities as possible and to avoid=
 me doing things in real time. But if all is looped=2C it is quite=2C circu=
lar=2C boring.<br><br>What can you suggest me to avoid this=2C and be able =
to be more effective in my learning process rehearsing at home?<br><br>Than=
ks!!!<br><br>Ser<br> 		 	   		  </div></body>
</html>=

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Subject: Re: How to properly train "live" looping at home?
From: Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com>
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Some non tech tips:

A very good thing to learn is to make one loop and then keep changing
it in a way that you create music that evolves in a flow that makes it
interesting to listen to. The shorter the loop the easier it is to
change it quickly enough. Never become boring! Rather make a less
planned quick change than just stay inactive while your music
approaches the dangerous "boring-zone".

An important aspect is to balance the two musical lines: the line you
are performing with your audio input and the line you are creating in
the looper (partially derived from your audio input). Two lines is
well enough for highly interesting music to occur, you may for example
create a "questions and answers game" between the two lines. Just one
idea, there are several others. Just do not record and keep playing
over the recording, that's a one way ticked to the boredom-zone.

Try to tell a story with looping instead of building a piece in the looper.

Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.perboysen.com
http://www.youtube.com/perboysen


On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 10:59 AM, Sergio Girardi <simpliflying@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello everybody,
>
> I need your feedback and experience, suggestions etc, about something I am
> seeing in my rehearsals.
> Two things I notice.
> First, it's very difficult for me to create a method for
> learning/rehearsing, and follow it with discipline without falling in the
> temptation of wanting "results".
> So I never understand if I must be creative in my learning process, or if I
> must be patient and methodic.
> You know, you want to learn guitar or drums, you must accept that you will
> have to repeat and repeat beats, chords, training, boring things, and if you
> try immediately just to play things, you will not learn well.
> This is what I was told.
> What do you think?
> In my case, I am learning just the looping itself, and the loopers. I play
> no instrument, I sing and beatbox, and then use synths.
>
> Second, I notice that when I rehears I tend to search for a "final result",
> as if I am composing a theme with Cubase, something finished, a composition
> which must be all there in the looper. And so I lose myself because to do
> this I need lot of tracks and separate loops and patterns and change of
> patterns, or I have something boring and static.
> But at same time this happens while I am supposedly training for live
> looping performances where I will mostly improvise! So this is confusing me.
> And I guess that this can also be part of why I was so concerned about the
> undo/redo thing in the Octatrack. I mean, maybe if I just train with the
> intention and attitude of a live improvised music performance, where not all
> stays in the looper, you just loop some things, and above them you play real
> time, solo, not looped parts.
> I suppose that this may be happening because I am not so good musician so I
> try to give to the machine as many responsabilities as possible and to avoid
> me doing things in real time. But if all is looped, it is quite, circular,
> boring.
>
> What can you suggest me to avoid this, and be able to be more effective in
> my learning process rehearsing at home?
>
> Thanks!!!
>
> Ser

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Subject: Re: feedback issue with mics in live performance
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On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 4:02 AM, Ben Walsh
<thefriendliestbunnyrabbit@gmail.com> wrote:
> so i'm trying to loop real drums in my live show, with two mics, and they
> are picking up a bunch of feedback and adding it to the loop, so the sound
> is quite degraded after 2 or 3 layers.  anybody had success dealing with
> this issue?  or is what i'm trying impossible?  i'm not using any monitors
> at all.


Gate, gate, gate and then gate some more. :-)) I have an extreme
supercardioid mic for flute (TC Helicon MP70 and it is quite feedback
safe, but you have to make sound very close to it in order to pick up
audio well). I also use volume foot switches for mics, but I realize
it wouldn't be realistic for you to pump you expression pedal for
every sixteenth note played on a drum so this tip may not be relevant.

Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.perboysen.com
http://www.youtube.com/perboysen

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Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 17:11:48 -0500
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Subject: Galactic Travels Playlist #825 for January 24, 2013.
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http://soundscapes.us/gt/playlists/2013/130124.html

Galactic Travels is an electronic, ambient, and space music show, that
airs each Thursday at 11:04 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and Bethlehem,
PA, 93.9 FM in Easton, PA and Phillipsburg, NJ, 93.7 FM in Fogelsville
and Trexlertown, and webcasting on the internet.  WDIY also broadcasts
in Digital HD at 88.1 FM.

Show #825 January 24, 2013.

WDIY Playlist:
http://wdiy.org/programs/galactic-travels?playlist_date=01-24-2013

RECAP:
On this show, I continued the month-long focus on Mystified. The
Featured CD at Midnight was "Life is a Carnival" on Attenuation Circuit
Records.http://soundscapes.us/gt/playlists/2013/focus.html#jan


PLAYLIST:

11:04 pm
ARTIST               TRACK                ALBUM (label)
==================== ==================== ==============================
Kevin Braheny        Starflight 1 *       Galaxies (Hearts of Space)
Arttek               The Carpet King      Hatchlings (none)
Genetique            Sensory              Green (none)
Broken Harbour       Between the Darkness The Geometry of Shadows
                        and the Light        (Relaxed Machinery)
Parallel Worlds and  Submerge             Morphogenic (DiN)
Premonition Factory  Suburban Souls       The Theory of Nothing (none)
VA [Bake Sale]       Conquering the Noise Doomsday and Brimstone (Sound
                        of Static Burns      for Good)
                        for the Jack Rabbit
                        of the Dust Bowl
                        Part 1 Worlds
12:00 am
ARTIST               TRACK                ALBUM (label)
==================== ==================== ==============================
Mystified            Life is a Carnival   Life is a Carnival
                                             (Attenuation Circuit)
Mystified            Swamp Sonica         Life is a Carnival
                                             (Attenuation Circuit)
Mystified            Hohnorable Drone     Life is a Carnival
                                             (Attenuation Circuit)
Mystified            Old as Ages          Life is a Carnival
                                             (Attenuation Circuit)
Mystified            Counting the Minutes Life is a Carnival
                                             (Attenuation Circuit)
Craig Padilla and    Blue Distance        When the Earth Is Far Away
   Zero Ohms                                 (Lotuspike)
Craig Padilla and    Dream Travel *       When the Earth Is Far Away
   Zero Ohms                                 (Lotuspike)


1:00 am

  * = excerpt
VA = Various Artists (compilation)
++ = Advance CDR from Artist
-- = Background music under interview


NEXT SHOW:
On the next Galactic Travels, I'll conclude the month-long focus on
Mystified.  The Featured CD at Midnight will be "Breathe Beyond" on
Parkbench Records.

WDIY Announcement: http://wdiy.org/post/next-galactic-travels-2013-01-31

Bill
========================================================================
Host of Galactic Travels, an electronic, ambient, and space music show,
Thursdays at 11:04 pm EST/GMT-5 on WDIY 88.1 FM in Allentown and
Bethlehem, 93.9 FM in Easton and Phillipsburg, and on 93.7 FM in
Trexlertown and Fogelsville.  WDIY also broadcasts in HD Digital Radio
on 88.1 FM.
Galactic Travels web site: http://galactictravels.info
Listen to WDIY at http://wdiy.org/programs/galactic-travels on-line.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jan 25 22:46:28 2013
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Am 23.01.2013 23:13, schrieb Rick Walker:
> In my own work (and I own an M-9 and use it live) I'm so used to the 
> architecture
> of the LP-1 (and now the LP-2) that I got really into creating 
> seamless overdubs so that if
> I ever UDNO a loop (or five) I am also thinking ahead of the game and 
> ready to re-record something
> quickly.
Seriously, Rick, (and that's more of an observation, not some 
critizism), it seems that you're so much at home in your specific 
musical approach that you always find ways to make a specific piece of 
gear suit your needs, rather than build your approach around the 
specific feature set of some gear.

And for that reason, I believe the best looper for you would be the good 
old trusted Repeater...maybe in a pedal form factor.

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Subject: Re: How to properly train "live" looping at home?
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The above post by Per succinctly captures the traps I've fallen into into
unknowingly over the years, and provides a simple solution - it deserves
more attention!


On 25 January 2013 11:22, Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com> wrote:

> Some non tech tips:
>
> A very good thing to learn is to make one loop and then keep changing
> it in a way that you create music that evolves in a flow that makes it
> interesting to listen to. The shorter the loop the easier it is to
> change it quickly enough. Never become boring! Rather make a less
> planned quick change than just stay inactive while your music
> approaches the dangerous "boring-zone".
>
> An important aspect is to balance the two musical lines: the line you
> are performing with your audio input and the line you are creating in
> the looper (partially derived from your audio input). Two lines is
> well enough for highly interesting music to occur, you may for example
> create a "questions and answers game" between the two lines. Just one
> idea, there are several others. Just do not record and keep playing
> over the recording, that's a one way ticked to the boredom-zone.
>
> Try to tell a story with looping instead of building a piece in the looper.
>
> Greetings from Sweden
>
> Per Boysen
> www.perboysen.com
> http://www.youtube.com/perboysen
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 10:59 AM, Sergio Girardi <simpliflying@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Hello everybody,
> >
> > I need your feedback and experience, suggestions etc, about something I
> am
> > seeing in my rehearsals.
> > Two things I notice.
> > First, it's very difficult for me to create a method for
> > learning/rehearsing, and follow it with discipline without falling in the
> > temptation of wanting "results".
> > So I never understand if I must be creative in my learning process, or
> if I
> > must be patient and methodic.
> > You know, you want to learn guitar or drums, you must accept that you
> will
> > have to repeat and repeat beats, chords, training, boring things, and if
> you
> > try immediately just to play things, you will not learn well.
> > This is what I was told.
> > What do you think?
> > In my case, I am learning just the looping itself, and the loopers. I
> play
> > no instrument, I sing and beatbox, and then use synths.
> >
> > Second, I notice that when I rehears I tend to search for a "final
> result",
> > as if I am composing a theme with Cubase, something finished, a
> composition
> > which must be all there in the looper. And so I lose myself because to do
> > this I need lot of tracks and separate loops and patterns and change of
> > patterns, or I have something boring and static.
> > But at same time this happens while I am supposedly training for live
> > looping performances where I will mostly improvise! So this is confusing
> me.
> > And I guess that this can also be part of why I was so concerned about
> the
> > undo/redo thing in the Octatrack. I mean, maybe if I just train with the
> > intention and attitude of a live improvised music performance, where not
> all
> > stays in the looper, you just loop some things, and above them you play
> real
> > time, solo, not looped parts.
> > I suppose that this may be happening because I am not so good musician
> so I
> > try to give to the machine as many responsabilities as possible and to
> avoid
> > me doing things in real time. But if all is looped, it is quite,
> circular,
> > boring.
> >
> > What can you suggest me to avoid this, and be able to be more effective
> in
> > my learning process rehearsing at home?
> >
> > Thanks!!!
> >
> > Ser
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">The above post by Per succinctly captures the traps I&#39;=
ve fallen into into unknowingly over the years, and provides a simple solut=
ion - it deserves more attention!</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><=
div class=3D"gmail_quote">
On 25 January 2013 11:22, Per Boysen <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:perboysen@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">perboysen@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span>=
 wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bor=
der-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Some non tech tips:<br>
<br>
A very good thing to learn is to make one loop and then keep changing<br>
it in a way that you create music that evolves in a flow that makes it<br>
interesting to listen to. The shorter the loop the easier it is to<br>
change it quickly enough. Never become boring! Rather make a less<br>
planned quick change than just stay inactive while your music<br>
approaches the dangerous &quot;boring-zone&quot;.<br>
<br>
An important aspect is to balance the two musical lines: the line you<br>
are performing with your audio input and the line you are creating in<br>
the looper (partially derived from your audio input). Two lines is<br>
well enough for highly interesting music to occur, you may for example<br>
create a &quot;questions and answers game&quot; between the two lines. Just=
 one<br>
idea, there are several others. Just do not record and keep playing<br>
over the recording, that&#39;s a one way ticked to the boredom-zone.<br>
<br>
Try to tell a story with looping instead of building a piece in the looper.=
<br>
<br>
Greetings from Sweden<br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
Per Boysen<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.perboysen.com" target=3D"_blank">www.perboysen.com</a=
><br>
<a href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/perboysen" target=3D"_blank">http://www.y=
outube.com/perboysen</a><br>
</font></span><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<br>
On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 10:59 AM, Sergio Girardi &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:simp=
liflying@gmail.com">simpliflying@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; Hello everybody,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I need your feedback and experience, suggestions etc, about something =
I am<br>
&gt; seeing in my rehearsals.<br>
&gt; Two things I notice.<br>
&gt; First, it&#39;s very difficult for me to create a method for<br>
&gt; learning/rehearsing, and follow it with discipline without falling in =
the<br>
&gt; temptation of wanting &quot;results&quot;.<br>
&gt; So I never understand if I must be creative in my learning process, or=
 if I<br>
&gt; must be patient and methodic.<br>
&gt; You know, you want to learn guitar or drums, you must accept that you =
will<br>
&gt; have to repeat and repeat beats, chords, training, boring things, and =
if you<br>
&gt; try immediately just to play things, you will not learn well.<br>
&gt; This is what I was told.<br>
&gt; What do you think?<br>
&gt; In my case, I am learning just the looping itself, and the loopers. I =
play<br>
&gt; no instrument, I sing and beatbox, and then use synths.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Second, I notice that when I rehears I tend to search for a &quot;fina=
l result&quot;,<br>
&gt; as if I am composing a theme with Cubase, something finished, a compos=
ition<br>
&gt; which must be all there in the looper. And so I lose myself because to=
 do<br>
&gt; this I need lot of tracks and separate loops and patterns and change o=
f<br>
&gt; patterns, or I have something boring and static.<br>
&gt; But at same time this happens while I am supposedly training for live<=
br>
&gt; looping performances where I will mostly improvise! So this is confusi=
ng me.<br>
&gt; And I guess that this can also be part of why I was so concerned about=
 the<br>
&gt; undo/redo thing in the Octatrack. I mean, maybe if I just train with t=
he<br>
&gt; intention and attitude of a live improvised music performance, where n=
ot all<br>
&gt; stays in the looper, you just loop some things, and above them you pla=
y real<br>
&gt; time, solo, not looped parts.<br>
&gt; I suppose that this may be happening because I am not so good musician=
 so I<br>
&gt; try to give to the machine as many responsabilities as possible and to=
 avoid<br>
&gt; me doing things in real time. But if all is looped, it is quite, circu=
lar,<br>
&gt; boring.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; What can you suggest me to avoid this, and be able to be more effectiv=
e in<br>
&gt; my learning process rehearsing at home?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Thanks!!!<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Ser<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

--20cf307d003ce385e104d4280145--

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Subject: Listen to Thought Radio
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THOUGHT RADIO:                       http://soundscapes.us/thoughtradio
=======================================================================
My next stint on Thought Radio, the Saturday edition of The AM/FM Show,
will be Saturday, January 26 at 6 am EST/GMT-5.  In Phase One, I will
continue the special on Sequences Electronic Music Magazine's sampler
CDs.

I host the show about every other week. When I am at the helm, the show
features electronic, ambient, and spacemusic at the beginning, an
eclectic mix of genres in the middle, and winds up with Progressive
Rock.

Tune in at 91.7 FM or on the internet at
http://muhlenberg.edu/wmuh/stream.html

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Not sure what I'm saying here is any way relevant to Rick's point,
but I thought it was interesting anyway.

Rick Walker wrote:( in context of simplicity in looping)
> 
> With the exception of ambient music where lots of smeary layers are a 
> plus,   I think that a lot of
> loopers forget that everyone in a sextet has to play commensurately less 
> and simpler parts
> to make an arrangement really powerful than in a duo or trio.

> It, of course, is not the only way to go,

...yup, there's a tangential direction to follow

The assumption here seems to be that "more loops" means
"more loops running at the same time".

...but more loops also means the ability to change direction
within a piece by using them in series.

(and some kind of Redo allows re-capitulation, often desireable.
....achievable in the top line hardware/software by muting
the original loop while either new material is introduced, or
while the original loop is being varied/mangled)


While numerous artists have demonstrated that using just one groove
per piece of music can work very well I don't see that live looping
is going anywhere new and exciting as long as that is accepted as a restriction.

In UK singles chart music, not usually considered a benchmark of future trends,
it's now common to hear rhythmic changes, and even tempo changes within a song.
(that "same all the way through" sound is somewhat stuck in that last 20 years
of the previous century if I'm not mistaken)

The commonest objection from the public against live looping is "once it's started it can't change",
...and nowadays they are becoming accustomed to changes.


andy











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Excellent, Andy!
richard sales
www.glasswing.com
www.richardsales.com
www.hayleysales.com
www.goodnaturefarms.com


On Jan 26, 2013, at 3:36 AM, andy butler wrote:

> Not sure what I'm saying here is any way relevant to Rick's point,
> but I thought it was interesting anyway.
>=20
> Rick Walker wrote:( in context of simplicity in looping)
>> With the exception of ambient music where lots of smeary layers are a =
plus,   I think that a lot of
>> loopers forget that everyone in a sextet has to play commensurately =
less and simpler parts
>> to make an arrangement really powerful than in a duo or trio.
>=20
>> It, of course, is not the only way to go,
>=20
> ...yup, there's a tangential direction to follow
>=20
> The assumption here seems to be that "more loops" means
> "more loops running at the same time".
>=20
> ...but more loops also means the ability to change direction
> within a piece by using them in series.
>=20
> (and some kind of Redo allows re-capitulation, often desireable.
> ....achievable in the top line hardware/software by muting
> the original loop while either new material is introduced, or
> while the original loop is being varied/mangled)
>=20
>=20
> While numerous artists have demonstrated that using just one groove
> per piece of music can work very well I don't see that live looping
> is going anywhere new and exciting as long as that is accepted as a =
restriction.
>=20
> In UK singles chart music, not usually considered a benchmark of =
future trends,
> it's now common to hear rhythmic changes, and even tempo changes =
within a song.
> (that "same all the way through" sound is somewhat stuck in that last =
20 years
> of the previous century if I'm not mistaken)
>=20
> The commonest objection from the public against live looping is "once =
it's started it can't change",
> ...and nowadays they are becoming accustomed to changes.
>=20
>=20
> andy
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20


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<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
">Excellent, Andy!<br><div>
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
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auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
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auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
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after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
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-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"Arial">richard sales</font></div><div><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#908E38"><a =
href=3D"http://www.glasswing.com">www.glasswing.com</a></font></div><div><=
font class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#908E38"><a =
href=3D"http://www.richardsales.com">www.richardsales.com</a></font></div>=
<div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#908E38"><a =
href=3D"http://www.hayleysales.com">www.hayleysales.com</a></font></div><d=
iv><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#908E38"><a =
href=3D"http://www.goodnaturefarms.com">www.goodnaturefarms.com</a></font>=
</div><div><br></div></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span><=
/div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></span></div><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: =
12px;"><br></span><div><div>On Jan 26, 2013, at 3:36 AM, andy butler =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div>Not sure what I'm saying here is any way relevant to =
Rick's point,<br>but I thought it was interesting anyway.<br><br>Rick =
Walker wrote:( in context of simplicity in looping)<br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">With the exception of ambient music where lots of smeary =
layers are a plus, &nbsp;&nbsp;I think that a lot =
of<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">loopers forget that =
everyone in a sextet has to play commensurately less and simpler =
parts<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">to make an arrangement =
really powerful than in a duo or trio.<br></blockquote><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">It, of course, is not the only way to =
go,<br></blockquote><br>...yup, there's a tangential direction to =
follow<br><br>The assumption here seems to be that "more loops" =
means<br>"more loops running at the same time".<br><br>...but more loops =
also means the ability to change direction<br>within a piece by using =
them in series.<br><br>(and some kind of Redo allows re-capitulation, =
often desireable.<br>....achievable in the top line hardware/software by =
muting<br>the original loop while either new material is introduced, =
or<br>while the original loop is being varied/mangled)<br><br><br>While =
numerous artists have demonstrated that using just one groove<br>per =
piece of music can work very well I don't see that live looping<br>is =
going anywhere new and exciting as long as that is accepted as a =
restriction.<br><br>In UK singles chart music, not usually considered a =
benchmark of future trends,<br>it's now common to hear rhythmic changes, =
and even tempo changes within a song.<br>(that "same all the way =
through" sound is somewhat stuck in that last 20 years<br>of the =
previous century if I'm not mistaken)<br><br>The commonest objection =
from the public against live looping is "once it's started it can't =
change",<br>...and nowadays they are becoming accustomed to =
changes.<br><br><br>andy<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br></=
div></blockquote></div><br></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-2-810740923--

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Subject: Re: How to properly train "live" looping at home?
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On Jan 25, 2013, at 3:22 AM, Per Boysen wrote:

> Just do not record and keep playing
> over the recording, that's a one way ticked to the boredom-zone.

Interestingly, I have been doing this more and more over the years and =
am in some ways more happy with the results. I guess that means I'm =
ceasing to be a looper and I'm just using loops as background texture to =
fill out the sound.

Mark

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jan 26 21:13:32 2013
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Before my current trend toward real looping minimalism (i.e., just use =
the loop as a background), I was working for a while with a single base =
loop that would often see little evolution and a second synchronized =
(though possibly longer) loop that would often be set at feedback =3D 0 =
so that it just gave me one repeat of what I was playing. For base cycle =
loops, if I did evolve them on the EDP, I liked to use NextLoop so that =
then I could revert back to the original cycle. This makes the =
Revert-to-original feature on the TimeLine look attractive. As I write =
this up, I start thinking that it would be interesting to have the =
second long delay (more so than loop the way I'm using it) come early in =
the signal flow and run through an independent effects chain. That way =
the duet I played with myself would be more of a duet. That would take a =
looper supporting a 100% wet output.

Mark

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Subject: Re: How to properly train "live" looping at home?
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>> Just do not record and keep playing
>> over the recording, that's a one way ticked to the boredom-zone.
>
On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 10:05 PM, Mark Hamburg <mark@grubmah.com> wrote:
> Interestingly, I have been doing this more and more over the years and am in some ways more happy with the results. I guess that means I'm ceasing to be a looper and I'm just using loops as background texture to fill out the sound.


The question was "how to practice looping". There's nothing wrong with
your praxis, Marc. Practicing instrument playing with the aid of a
looper is just another area (than "practicing looping").

Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.perboysen.com
http://www.youtube.com/perboysen

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Subject: Re: How to properly train "live" looping at home?
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Oops, sorry for the typo! (too fast, gotta slow down and re-brain a bit here...)


On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 10:20 PM, Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Just do not record and keep playing
>>> over the recording, that's a one way ticked to the boredom-zone.
>>
> On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 10:05 PM, Mark Hamburg <mark@grubmah.com> wrote:
>> Interestingly, I have been doing this more and more over the years and am in some ways more happy with the results. I guess that means I'm ceasing to be a looper and I'm just using loops as background texture to fill out the sound.
>
>
> The question was "how to practice looping". There's nothing wrong with
> your praxis, Marc. Practicing instrument playing with the aid of a
> looper is just another area (than "practicing looping").
>
> Greetings from Sweden
>
> Per Boysen
> www.perboysen.com
> http://www.youtube.com/perboysen

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jan 27 01:37:23 2013
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Subject: new video/song
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Here is a video for a song from a new album I just released.
The song is ambient glitch electronica.
Music was made using an iPad and Ableton Live.
The video is of Coney Island in August 1904.


Youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxsc0x7wV6Y

or

Vimeo
https://vimeo.com/58271721


I will get the album up on Bandcamp eventually and announce when that  
is accomplished.


regards

BobC

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Subject: Thought Radio Playlist for January 26, 2013.
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http://soundscapes.us/thoughtradio/playlists/2013/130126.html

The Saturday edition of The AM/FM Show has alternating hosts.  When I am
at the helm, the show is called Thought Radio and you can expect to hear
electronic, ambient, spacemusic, Progressive Rock, and an eclectic mix
of other genres.  The show airs from 6:00 am to 8:00 am EST/GMT-5 on
WMUH Allentown, 91.7 FM and on the internet.  I also host Afterglow
every Thursday from 8:00 am to 9:30 am.
http://soundscapes.us/afterglow/index.html

Show #242 January 26, 2013.

Phase I/Space:

ARTIST               TRACK                ALBUM (label)
==================== ==================== ==============================
VA [Twyndyllyngs]    Lament for Sandy     Doomsday and Brimstone (Sound
                        Hook                 for Good)
VA [Glen Deardorf]   Solo Ascent Part 2   Sequences No. 22
Arttek               Quiet Spirit         Hatchlings (none)
                        Extension
Max Corbacho         Shoreless Ocean      The Ocean Inside (ad21)
Glenn Main           Floating             Ripples (A.D. Music)
Glenn Main           Outward Bound        Ripples (A.D. Music)


Phase II/Eclectic:

ARTIST               TRACK                ALBUM (label)
==================== ==================== ==============================
VA [Al Gromer Khan]  Silent Voice         Grace (New Earth)
Timothy Wenzel       Miles from Nowhere   A Coalescence of Dreams (none)
Michael Brant        Healing Heart        The Maiden of Stonehenge (none)
   DeMaria


Phase III/Progressive Rock:

ARTIST               TRACK                ALBUM (label)
==================== ==================== ==============================
Pinnick Gales        Lascivious           Pinnick Gales Pridget (Magna
   Pridget                                   Carta)
Pinnick Gales        Black Jeans          Pinnick Gales Pridget (Magna
   Pridget                                   Carta)
Syzygy               Circadian Rhythm     A Glorious Disturbance (FHL)
Syzygy               Strange Loop II      A Glorious Disturbance (FHL)
Majestic             Zosimos Sleeps       V.O.Z. (none)
Majestic             Becoming             V.O.Z. (none)
VA [Carmine Appice]  Perfect Day          Tune In To Mind Radio
                                             (Surgeland)
Alan Morse           Cold Fusion *        Four O'clock and Hysteria
                                             (InsideOut)

  * = excerpt
++ = Advanced CDR from artist
VA = Various Artists (compilation)

On the next show, I will continue the special on the sampler CDRs that
come with each issue of Sequences electronic music magazine.

Bill Fox
========================================================================
Host of Thought Radio, the Saturday edition of The AM/FM Show every
other Saturday at 6:00 am EST/GMT-5.
Phase 1: Electronic, ambient, and space music.
Phase 2: Mixed bag of acoustic, electric, pop, or New Age.
Phase 3: Progressive rock from past masters to contemporary releases.
Website - http://soundscapes.us/thoughtradio
Listen to WMUH Allentown locally at 91.7 FM or on-line at
http://www.muhlenberg.edu/wmuh/stream.html

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Beautiful and very evocative.
I love the mixture of the music and the video.

Nice work, Bob.

yours,    Rick



On 1/26/2013 5:37 PM, RP Collier wrote:
> Here is a video for a song from a new album I just released.
> The song is ambient glitch electronica.
> Music was made using an iPad and Ableton Live.
> The video is of Coney Island in August 1904.
>
>
> Youtube
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxsc0x7wV6Y
>
> or
>
> Vimeo
> https://vimeo.com/58271721
>
>
> I will get the album up on Bandcamp eventually and announce when that 
> is accomplished.
>
>
> regards
>
> BobC

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jan 27 07:28:02 2013
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Subject: Re: new video/song
From: Laurie Amat <voicesound@att.net>
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Such a beautiful work. It all felt so real.=20

Thank you.
On Jan 26, 2013, at 11:12 PM, Rick Walker wrote:

> Beautiful and very evocative.
> I love the mixture of the music and the video.
>=20
> Nice work, Bob.
>=20
> yours,    Rick
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On 1/26/2013 5:37 PM, RP Collier wrote:
>> Here is a video for a song from a new album I just released.
>> The song is ambient glitch electronica.
>> Music was made using an iPad and Ableton Live.
>> The video is of Coney Island in August 1904.
>>=20
>>=20
>> Youtube
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DOxsc0x7wV6Y
>>=20
>> or
>>=20
>> Vimeo
>> https://vimeo.com/58271721
>>=20
>>=20
>> I will get the album up on Bandcamp eventually and announce when that =
is accomplished.
>>=20
>>=20
>> regards
>>=20
>> BobC
>=20

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jan 27 08:02:32 2013
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To: Ben Walsh <thefriendliestbunnyrabbit@gmail.com>,
        "LOOPERS DELIGHT (posting)" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Re: feedback issue with mics in live performance
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On 1/24/2013 7:02 PM, Ben Walsh wrote:
> hello everyone!  so nice to find a community of like-minded cats.
>
> so i'm trying to loop real drums in my live show, with two mics, and 
> they are picking up a bunch of feedback and adding it to the loop, so 
> the sound is quite degraded after 2 or 3 layers.  anybody had success 
> dealing with this issue?  or is what i'm trying impossible?  i'm not 
> using any monitors at all.
>
> thanks!
> ben

I,    too,  am a looping drummer/percussionist/multi-instrumentalist who 
has had problems with live microphones onstage.
For many, many years I resisted the urge to invest in "IN-EAR" monitors 
with a wireless system.   It's a somewhat expensive
solution,  (around $500-$600 for a decent set up) so I always balked at 
getting into it to save money.

Anyway,  I finally broke down and bought a system and it changed my life 
onstage.    There's no monitoring so there is no feedback
unless the PA is ludicrously loud.   Additionally,  I can completely 
control my own monitoring volume without disturbing other
musicians on stage when I'm playing with other people.

Finally,  I can set up my entire rig and a festival gig and be 
soundchecking while another act is on stage.
This has radically lowered my anxiety about being able to get onto stage 
quickly and get a decent monitoring set up.

I cannot more highly recommend it, and honestly, if you want high 
quality micing solutions (I even use hyper  cartioid AKG C1000s
condenser mics on stage) this is the only way to go.

If you need more advice,  I've learned a few things about what to buy if 
cost is a factor.

Rick Walker

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jan 27 09:14:56 2013
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--047d7b10c8610879fe04d4419864
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As a huge fan of archive and diary movies, I applaud this. I also liked the
cut up audio glitches.. can we have a little nerd info on the musical
set-up please?

MArk


On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 2:37 AM, RP Collier <skeptikalist@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Here is a video for a song from a new album I just released.
> The song is ambient glitch electronica.
> Music was made using an iPad and Ableton Live.
> The video is of Coney Island in August 1904.
>
>
> Youtube
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?**v=Oxsc0x7wV6Y<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxsc0x7wV6Y>
>
> or
>
> Vimeo
> https://vimeo.com/58271721
>
>
> I will get the album up on Bandcamp eventually and announce when that is
> accomplished.
>
>
> regards
>
> BobC
>
>


-- 
*Mark Francombe*
www.markfrancombe.com
www.ordoabkhao.com
http://vimeo.com/user825094
http://www.looop.no
twitter @markfrancombe
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/

--047d7b10c8610879fe04d4419864
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<div dir=3D"ltr">As a huge fan of archive and diary movies, I=A0applaud=A0t=
his. I also liked the cut up audio glitches.. can we have a little nerd inf=
o on the musical set-up please?<div><br></div><div style>MArk</div></div><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_extra">

<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 2:37 AM, RP Coll=
ier <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:skeptikalist@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">skeptikalist@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pa=
dding-left:1ex">

<br>
Here is a video for a song from a new album I just released.<br>
The song is ambient glitch electronica.<br>
Music was made using an iPad and Ableton Live.<br>
The video is of Coney Island in August 1904.<br>
<br>
<br>
Youtube<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DOxsc0x7wV6Y" target=3D"_blank">=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?<u></u>v=3DOxsc0x7wV6Y</a><br>
<br>
or<br>
<br>
Vimeo<br>
<a href=3D"https://vimeo.com/58271721" target=3D"_blank">https://vimeo.com/=
58271721</a><br>
<br>
<br>
I will get the album up on Bandcamp eventually and announce when that is ac=
complished.<br>
<br>
<br>
regards<br>
<br>
BobC<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><i style=3D"=
font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(255,255,255);background-color:rgb(=
0,0,0)"><font style=3D"font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif" size=3D"4"><u>M=
ark Francombe</u></font></i><br>

<font size=3D"1"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.markfra=
ncombe.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.markfrancombe.com</a><br style=3D"color:=
rgb(51,0,51)"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.ordoabkhao=
.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.ordoabkhao.com</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,=
51)">

<a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://vimeo.com/user825094" target=
=3D"_blank">http://vimeo.com/user825094</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)"=
><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.looop.no/" target=3D"_b=
lank">http://www.looop.no</a><br>

twitter @markfrancombe<br><a href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@=
N00/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/</a><br><=
/font>
</div>

--047d7b10c8610879fe04d4419864--

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On Jan 26, 2013, at 11:12 PM, Rick Walker wrote:

> Beautiful and very evocative.
> I love the mixture of the music and the video.


Thank you sir!
And thanks for taking the time to listen.

I love your Challenge video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iApedAzjwiU

regards

BobC
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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br><div><div>On Jan 26, 2013, =
at 11:12 PM, Rick Walker wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: =
normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; ">Beautiful and =
very evocative.<br>I love the mixture of the music and the =
video.</span></blockquote><br></div><br><div>Thank you =
sir!</div><div>And thanks for taking the time to =
listen.</div><div><br></div><div>I love your Challenge =
video</div><div><a =
href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DiApedAzjwiU">http://www.youtube.c=
om/watch?v=3DiApedAzjwiU</a></div><div><br></div><div>regards</div><div><b=
r></div><div>BobC</div></body></html>=

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On Jan 26, 2013, at 11:28 PM, Laurie Amat wrote:

> Such a beautiful work. It all felt so real.

Thanks for having a listen!


cheers

BobC
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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br><div><div>On Jan 26, 2013, =
at 11:28 PM, Laurie Amat wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: =
normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; ">Such a =
beautiful work. It all felt so real.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></blockquote></div><br=
><div>Thanks for having a =
listen!</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>cheers</div><div><br></div=
><div>BobC</div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-3-891535655--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jan 27 16:39:52 2013
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On Jan 27, 2013, at 1:14 AM, mark francombe wrote:

>  can we have a little nerd info on the musical set-up please?


Sure.

The instrument is an Alchemy synth preset on the iPad that is being  
played using the little Korg Nano-Key keyboard.
The input is going into Ableton Live and recorded. The original piece  
is about 2 minutes long.

Then in Live, I am using the delay plugin Replicant, the Crossfade  
Synth plugin and Pluggo's Slice-n-Dice as well as multiple instances  
of Ableton delays and beat repeats in various combinations.
I created about 8 versions of the 2 minute piece, selected portions  
and melded them together in the audio editor Bias Peak.
In some of the versions there was serious extensive popping/clipping  
caused by the software that I decided to edit out. Quite a significant  
amount of time was needed to smooth some of the events out.

The video clip is not really edited at all. The original clip was a  
bit over 4 minutes and I slowed the speed down to about 47% making the  
clip a bit over 8 minutes long so that it fit the audio time. Any  
apparent syncing of audio to image is by chance.

Thanks for listening!

BobC



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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br><div><div>On Jan 27, 2013, =
at 1:14 AM, mark francombe wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: =
normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>can we have a little nerd =
info on the musical set-up =
please?</span></blockquote></div><br><div><br></div><div>Sure.</div><div><=
br></div><div>The instrument is an Alchemy synth preset on the iPad that =
is being played using the little Korg Nano-Key keyboard.</div><div>The =
input is going into Ableton Live and recorded. The original piece is =
about 2 minutes long.</div><div><br></div><div>Then in Live, I am using =
the delay plugin Replicant, the Crossfade Synth plugin and Pluggo's =
Slice-n-Dice as well as multiple instances of Ableton delays and beat =
repeats in various combinations.</div><div>I created about 8 versions of =
the 2 minute piece, selected portions and melded them together in the =
audio editor Bias Peak.</div><div>In some of the versions there was =
serious extensive popping/clipping caused by the software that I decided =
to edit out. Quite a significant amount of time was needed to smooth =
some of the events out.</div><div><br></div><div>The video clip is not =
really edited at all. The original clip was a bit over 4 minutes and I =
slowed the speed down to about 47% making the clip a bit over 8 minutes =
long so that it fit the audio time. Any apparent syncing of audio to =
image is by chance.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks for =
listening!</div><div><br></div><div>BobC</div><div><br></div><div><br></di=
v></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-4-892983052--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jan 27 18:53:21 2013
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Subject: Re: feedback issue with mics in live performance
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I second Rick's recommendation on in-ear monitors.  And, I highly recommend 
the Westone.  These guys make some amazing systems, and have for years.
http://www.westone.com/music/

I decided to just get their top of the line monitor, the ES5, which is 
custom fit to your ear, 8hz to 20kHz frequency range, 5 drivers, 3-way 
cross-over....just amazing in sound.  I figured the investment was worth it 
considering how much time I listen to music, either on state, at home 
through my mac, etc.

But they have some less expensive custom in-ear systems, like the AC1 and 
AC2 that are good too.

For my band, I also bought this Prosonus headphone amp/distribution system, 
which is pretty cool.  Each person can have an A/B mix, and an external mix 
of their own instrument.

Kris


-----Original Message----- 

I,    too,  am a looping drummer/percussionist/multi-instrumentalist who
has had problems with live microphones onstage.
For many, many years I resisted the urge to invest in "IN-EAR" monitors
with a wireless system.   It's a somewhat expensive
solution,  (around $500-$600 for a decent set up) so I always balked at
getting into it to save money.

Anyway,  I finally broke down and bought a system and it changed my life
onstage.    There's no monitoring so there is no feedback
unless the PA is ludicrously loud.   Additionally,  I can completely
control my own monitoring volume without disturbing other
musicians on stage when I'm playing with other people.


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jan 27 18:57:57 2013
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From: "Kris Hartung" <krispen.hartung@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: feedback issue with mics in live performance
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 11:57:51 -0700
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another reason why I only use in-ear monitors on stage is that I find that 
most stage monitors at clubs and venues totally suck and are inconsistent. 
I am playing EDM stuff, which delivers some serious low end on the synth 
bass and kick, and I have yet to find an onstage monitoring system that can 
do justice to the mix...it just ends up sounding like shit and ruining the 
whole live performance experience.  So, all of us in the band use in-ear 
systems, and the crowd gets this massive sound coming out of multiple 15-18 
inch subs, etc.   And the cool thing is that even with the sound isolating 
in-ear monitors, you can feel the bass in your body through the mains....it 
is a nice effect.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Kris Hartung

I second Rick's recommendation on in-ear monitors.  And, I highly recommend
the Westone.  These guys make some amazing systems, and have for years.
http://www.westone.com/music/

I decided to just get their top of the line monitor, the ES5, which is
custom fit to your ear, 8hz to 20kHz frequency range, 5 drivers, 3-way
cross-over....just amazing in sound.  I figured the investment was worth it
considering how much time I listen to music, either on state, at home
through my mac, etc.

But they have some less expensive custom in-ear systems, like the AC1 and
AC2 that are good too.

For my band, I also bought this Prosonus headphone amp/distribution system,
which is pretty cool.  Each person can have an A/B mix, and an external mix
of their own instrument.

Kris 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jan 27 19:00:51 2013
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Subject: Re: feedback issue with mics in live performance
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On 27 Jan 2013, at 19:57, Kris Hartung <krispen.hartung@gmail.com> wrote:

> I am playing EDM stuff,

What??? I wanna hear Kris!!

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jan 27 22:26:02 2013
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Subject: OT Data Recovery
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Hello brilliant people of LD,

I know this is a long shot but i bet most of you have encountered
something of this sort in the past.

I have a 2 TB harddrive that was pre-formatted for MAC and Windows
storage (no individual file could be over 4 GB) and all was good in
the world.

Yesterday, with no real warning at all my Macbook told me it had
errors and I couldn't copy to it or from it.  Connected it to a
WIndows machine, it asked if I wanted to scan and fix errors, I said
yes, it did its thing and now it isn't recognized as being formatted.

Any comments (other than backup your backups) or suggestions on how to
recover this?

All this and Monday coming...

Thanks as always,

Kevin

-- 
Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and to have a
form. That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all trouble.

- Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jan 27 22:33:36 2013
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Subject: Re: OT Data Recovery
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What kind of drive is it? WD?  They have a data recovery disc I believe...

-----Original Message----- 
From: Kevin Cheli-Colando 
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 5:26 PM 
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com 
Subject: OT Data Recovery 

Hello brilliant people of LD,

I know this is a long shot but i bet most of you have encountered
something of this sort in the past.

I have a 2 TB harddrive that was pre-formatted for MAC and Windows
storage (no individual file could be over 4 GB) and all was good in
the world.

Yesterday, with no real warning at all my Macbook told me it had
errors and I couldn't copy to it or from it.  Connected it to a
WIndows machine, it asked if I wanted to scan and fix errors, I said
yes, it did its thing and now it isn't recognized as being formatted.

Any comments (other than backup your backups) or suggestions on how to
recover this?

All this and Monday coming...

Thanks as always,

Kevin

-- 
Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and to have a
form. That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all trouble.

- Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jan 27 23:24:37 2013
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Subject: Re: OT Data Recovery
From: Art Simon <simart@gmail.com>
To: Stephen Goodman <spgoodman@earthlight.net>
Cc: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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--e89a8ff242a1c3463204d44d76f6
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

There are several free data recovery software programs out there. I've
actually had very good luck with them the few times I've needed it. I can't
remember the particular version I used, but a search on
downloads.comturned up this:
http://download.cnet.com/File-Scavenger-Data-Recovery-Utility/3000-2094_4-10028488.html

If that one doesn't work, try a few more. Hopefully you will
be pleasantly surprised.


On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 2:33 PM, Stephen Goodman
<spgoodman@earthlight.net>wrote:

> What kind of drive is it? WD?  They have a data recovery disc I believe...
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Cheli-Colando Sent: Sunday, January
> 27, 2013 5:26 PM To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-**delight.com<Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>Subject: OT Data Recovery
> Hello brilliant people of LD,
>
> I know this is a long shot but i bet most of you have encountered
> something of this sort in the past.
>
> I have a 2 TB harddrive that was pre-formatted for MAC and Windows
> storage (no individual file could be over 4 GB) and all was good in
> the world.
>
> Yesterday, with no real warning at all my Macbook told me it had
> errors and I couldn't copy to it or from it.  Connected it to a
> WIndows machine, it asked if I wanted to scan and fix errors, I said
> yes, it did its thing and now it isn't recognized as being formatted.
>
> Any comments (other than backup your backups) or suggestions on how to
> recover this?
>
> All this and Monday coming...
>
> Thanks as always,
>
> Kevin
>
> --
> Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and to have a
> form. That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all trouble.
>
> - Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)
>
>


-- 
Art Simon
simart@gmail.com

--e89a8ff242a1c3463204d44d76f6
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

There are several free data recovery software programs out there. I&#39;ve =
actually had very good luck with them the few times I&#39;ve needed it. I c=
an&#39;t remember the particular version I used, but a search on <a href=3D=
"http://downloads.com">downloads.com</a> turned up this:<div>
<a href=3D"http://download.cnet.com/File-Scavenger-Data-Recovery-Utility/30=
00-2094_4-10028488.html">http://download.cnet.com/File-Scavenger-Data-Recov=
ery-Utility/3000-2094_4-10028488.html</a></div><div><br></div><div>If that =
one doesn&#39;t work, try a few more. Hopefully you will be=A0pleasantly=A0=
surprised.</div>
<div><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 2:33 PM, St=
ephen Goodman <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:spgoodman@earthlight.=
net" target=3D"_blank">spgoodman@earthlight.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px =
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
What kind of drive is it? WD? =A0They have a data recovery disc I believe..=
.<br>
<br>
-----Original Message----- From: Kevin Cheli-Colando Sent: Sunday, January =
27, 2013 5:26 PM To: <a href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com"=
 target=3D"_blank">Loopers-Delight@loopers-<u></u>delight.com</a> Subject: =
OT Data Recovery <br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">
Hello brilliant people of LD,<br>
<br>
I know this is a long shot but i bet most of you have encountered<br>
something of this sort in the past.<br>
<br>
I have a 2 TB harddrive that was pre-formatted for MAC and Windows<br>
storage (no individual file could be over 4 GB) and all was good in<br>
the world.<br>
<br>
Yesterday, with no real warning at all my Macbook told me it had<br>
errors and I couldn&#39;t copy to it or from it. =A0Connected it to a<br>
WIndows machine, it asked if I wanted to scan and fix errors, I said<br>
yes, it did its thing and now it isn&#39;t recognized as being formatted.<b=
r>
<br>
Any comments (other than backup your backups) or suggestions on how to<br>
recover this?<br>
<br>
All this and Monday coming...<br>
<br>
Thanks as always,<br>
<br>
Kevin<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and to have a<br>
form. That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all trouble.<=
br>
<br>
- Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br>=
Art Simon<br><a href=3D"mailto:simart@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">simart@g=
mail.com</a><br>
</div>

--e89a8ff242a1c3463204d44d76f6--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jan 27 23:41:20 2013
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Message-ID: <CAF-7VCDTEm77C5DvhRd68DbbNvNeRPnX8fJoCJ6SY577pGZMfQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: TouchOSC/Mobius
From: Jim Goodin <jimgoodinmusic@gmail.com>
To: "Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" <loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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--047d7b66fa1b7ce52d04d44db263
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Has anyone set up TouchOSC on the iPad with Mobius?  Possibly have a video
sharing their experience on YoutTube?

I'm digging through the documentation on OSC on the Circular site but
looking for add'l input.

Thanks.

Jim

--=20
--=20
*jimgoodin.com* <http://jimgoodin.com> - 'Acoustic guitar renaissance,
color blue, repetitive minimalism'

*The Recordings of Wood and Wire Music*<http://woodandwiremusic.bandcamp.co=
m> -
'Organically inspired New Music'

*From Brooklyn To Glindran <http://jimgoodinpeterthorn.bandcamp.com>*, a
new World/Free Jazz recording by Jim Goodin & Peter Th=F6rn.  Proceeds from
this CD will benefit *JDRF International <http://jdrf.org>*

*Tips Across the
Waters<http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tips-across-the-waters/id474128076?mt=
=3D8>
*, a new app for iOS from James Goodin/Wood and Wire Ware.

--047d7b66fa1b7ce52d04d44db263
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Has anyone set up TouchOSC on the iPad with Mobius? =A0Possibly have a vide=
o sharing their experience on YoutTube?<div><br></div><div>I&#39;m digging =
through the documentation on OSC on the Circular site but looking for add&#=
39;l input.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Thanks.</div><div><br></div><div>Jim<br clear=3D"all"><=
div><br></div>-- <br><div>-- </div><div><a href=3D"http://jimgoodin.com" ta=
rget=3D"_blank"><em>jimgoodin.com</em></a> - &#39;Acoustic guitar renaissan=
ce, color blue, repetitive minimalism&#39;</div>
<div>=A0</div><div><a href=3D"http://woodandwiremusic.bandcamp.com" target=
=3D"_blank"><em>The Recordings of Wood and Wire Music</em></a>=A0- &#39;Org=
anically inspired New Music&#39;</div><div>=A0</div><div><em><a href=3D"htt=
p://jimgoodinpeterthorn.bandcamp.com" target=3D"_blank">From Brooklyn To Gl=
indran</a></em>, a new World/Free Jazz recording by Jim Goodin &amp; Peter =
Th=F6rn.=A0 Proceeds from this CD will benefit <em><a href=3D"http://jdrf.o=
rg" target=3D"_blank">JDRF International</a></em></div>
<div><br><em><a href=3D"http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tips-across-the-wate=
rs/id474128076?mt=3D8" target=3D"_blank">Tips Across the Waters</a></em>, a=
 new app for iOS from James Goodin/Wood and Wire Ware.</div>
</div>

--047d7b66fa1b7ce52d04d44db263--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jan 28 02:53:03 2013
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Subject: Re: TouchOSC/Mobius
From: Sylvain Poitras <sylvain.trombone@gmail.com>
To: "Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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--047d7bdcab52279fe004d4506021
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Hi Jim,
Here's a link to a quick touchOSC template I made to get you started:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bw0CCv3EdFwZTmkxQ3hSS3BKYUE/edit

Sylvain


On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 6:41 PM, Jim Goodin <jimgoodinmusic@gmail.com>wrote=
:

> Has anyone set up TouchOSC on the iPad with Mobius?  Possibly have a vide=
o
> sharing their experience on YoutTube?
>
> I'm digging through the documentation on OSC on the Circular site but
> looking for add'l input.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jim
>
> --
> --
> *jimgoodin.com* <http://jimgoodin.com> - 'Acoustic guitar renaissance,
> color blue, repetitive minimalism'
>
> *The Recordings of Wood and Wire Music*<http://woodandwiremusic.bandcamp.=
com> -
> 'Organically inspired New Music'
>
> *From Brooklyn To Glindran <http://jimgoodinpeterthorn.bandcamp.com>*, a
> new World/Free Jazz recording by Jim Goodin & Peter Th=F6rn.  Proceeds fr=
om
> this CD will benefit *JDRF International <http://jdrf.org>*
>
> *Tips Across the Waters<http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tips-across-the-wa=
ters/id474128076?mt=3D8>
> *, a new app for iOS from James Goodin/Wood and Wire Ware.
>

--047d7bdcab52279fe004d4506021
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Jim,=A0<div style>Here&#39;s a link to a quick touchOSC=
 template I made to get you started:=A0<a href=3D"https://docs.google.com/f=
ile/d/0Bw0CCv3EdFwZTmkxQ3hSS3BKYUE/edit">https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bw=
0CCv3EdFwZTmkxQ3hSS3BKYUE/edit</a></div>
<div style><br></div><div style>Sylvain</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extr=
a"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 6:41 PM, Jim =
Goodin <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jimgoodinmusic@gmail.com" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">jimgoodinmusic@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Has anyone set up TouchOSC on the iPad with =
Mobius? =A0Possibly have a video sharing their experience on YoutTube?<div>=
<br>
</div><div>I&#39;m digging through the documentation on OSC on the Circular=
 site but looking for add&#39;l input.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Thanks.</div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888=
888"><div><br></div><div>Jim<br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div>--=
 </div><div><a href=3D"http://jimgoodin.com" target=3D"_blank"><em>jimgoodi=
n.com</em></a> - &#39;Acoustic guitar renaissance, color blue, repetitive m=
inimalism&#39;</div>

<div>=A0</div><div><a href=3D"http://woodandwiremusic.bandcamp.com" target=
=3D"_blank"><em>The Recordings of Wood and Wire Music</em></a>=A0- &#39;Org=
anically inspired New Music&#39;</div><div>=A0</div><div><em><a href=3D"htt=
p://jimgoodinpeterthorn.bandcamp.com" target=3D"_blank">From Brooklyn To Gl=
indran</a></em>, a new World/Free Jazz recording by Jim Goodin &amp; Peter =
Th=F6rn.=A0 Proceeds from this CD will benefit <em><a href=3D"http://jdrf.o=
rg" target=3D"_blank">JDRF International</a></em></div>

<div><br><em><a href=3D"http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tips-across-the-wate=
rs/id474128076?mt=3D8" target=3D"_blank">Tips Across the Waters</a></em>, a=
 new app for iOS from James Goodin/Wood and Wire Ware.</div>
</div>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>

--047d7bdcab52279fe004d4506021--

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Subject: Re: TouchOSC/Mobius
From: Jim Goodin <jimgoodinmusic@gmail.com>
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--047d7b6225200752f504d450b3a3
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Sylvain thanks very much.  I have since tapped in to what I think I need to
alter in the xml file but I'm sure this will help.  Sending you a note
off-list.  Jim

On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 9:53 PM, Sylvain Poitras <sylvain.trombone@gmail.co=
m
> wrote:

> Hi Jim,
> Here's a link to a quick touchOSC template I made to get you started:
> https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bw0CCv3EdFwZTmkxQ3hSS3BKYUE/edit
>
> Sylvain
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 6:41 PM, Jim Goodin <jimgoodinmusic@gmail.com>wro=
te:
>
>> Has anyone set up TouchOSC on the iPad with Mobius?  Possibly have a
>> video sharing their experience on YoutTube?
>>
>> I'm digging through the documentation on OSC on the Circular site but
>> looking for add'l input.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> --
>> --
>> *jimgoodin.com* <http://jimgoodin.com> - 'Acoustic guitar renaissance,
>> color blue, repetitive minimalism'
>>
>> *The Recordings of Wood and Wire Music*<http://woodandwiremusic.bandcamp=
.com> -
>> 'Organically inspired New Music'
>>
>> *From Brooklyn To Glindran <http://jimgoodinpeterthorn.bandcamp.com>*, a
>> new World/Free Jazz recording by Jim Goodin & Peter Th=F6rn.  Proceeds f=
rom
>> this CD will benefit *JDRF International <http://jdrf.org>*
>>
>> *Tips Across the Waters<http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tips-across-the-w=
aters/id474128076?mt=3D8>
>> *, a new app for iOS from James Goodin/Wood and Wire Ware.
>>
>
>


--=20
--=20
*jimgoodin.com* <http://jimgoodin.com> - 'Acoustic guitar renaissance,
color blue, repetitive minimalism'

*The Recordings of Wood and Wire Music*<http://woodandwiremusic.bandcamp.co=
m> -
'Organically inspired New Music'

*From Brooklyn To Glindran <http://jimgoodinpeterthorn.bandcamp.com>*, a
new World/Free Jazz recording by Jim Goodin & Peter Th=F6rn.  Proceeds from
this CD will benefit *JDRF International <http://jdrf.org>*

*Tips Across the
Waters<http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tips-across-the-waters/id474128076?mt=
=3D8>
*, a new app for iOS from James Goodin/Wood and Wire Ware.

--047d7b6225200752f504d450b3a3
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Sylvain thanks very much. =A0I have since tapped in to what I think I need =
to alter in the xml file but I&#39;m sure this will help. =A0Sending you a =
note off-list. =A0Jim<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Jan 27, 201=
3 at 9:53 PM, Sylvain Poitras <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sylva=
in.trombone@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">sylvain.trombone@gmail.com</a>&gt;=
</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Jim,=A0<div>Here&#39;s a=
 link to a quick touchOSC template I made to get you started:=A0<a href=3D"=
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bw0CCv3EdFwZTmkxQ3hSS3BKYUE/edit" target=3D=
"_blank">https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bw0CCv3EdFwZTmkxQ3hSS3BKYUE/edit</=
a></div>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">
<div><br></div><div>Sylvain</div></font></span></div><div class=3D"HOEnZb">=
<div class=3D"h5"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote">On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 6:41 PM, Jim Goodin <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:jimgoodinmusic@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jimgoodinmusic@gm=
ail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Has anyone set up TouchOSC on the iPad with =
Mobius? =A0Possibly have a video sharing their experience on YoutTube?<div>=
<br>

</div><div>I&#39;m digging through the documentation on OSC on the Circular=
 site but looking for add&#39;l input.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Thanks.</div><span><font color=3D"#888888"><div><br></d=
iv><div>Jim<br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div>-- </div><div><a hr=
ef=3D"http://jimgoodin.com" target=3D"_blank"><em>jimgoodin.com</em></a> - =
&#39;Acoustic guitar renaissance, color blue, repetitive minimalism&#39;</d=
iv>


<div>=A0</div><div><a href=3D"http://woodandwiremusic.bandcamp.com" target=
=3D"_blank"><em>The Recordings of Wood and Wire Music</em></a>=A0- &#39;Org=
anically inspired New Music&#39;</div><div>=A0</div><div><em><a href=3D"htt=
p://jimgoodinpeterthorn.bandcamp.com" target=3D"_blank">From Brooklyn To Gl=
indran</a></em>, a new World/Free Jazz recording by Jim Goodin &amp; Peter =
Th=F6rn.=A0 Proceeds from this CD will benefit <em><a href=3D"http://jdrf.o=
rg" target=3D"_blank">JDRF International</a></em></div>


<div><br><em><a href=3D"http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tips-across-the-wate=
rs/id474128076?mt=3D8" target=3D"_blank">Tips Across the Waters</a></em>, a=
 new app for iOS from James Goodin/Wood and Wire Ware.</div>
</div>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br>=
<div>-- </div><div><a href=3D"http://jimgoodin.com" target=3D"_blank"><em>j=
imgoodin.com</em></a> - &#39;Acoustic guitar renaissance, color blue, repet=
itive minimalism&#39;</div>
<div>=A0</div><div><a href=3D"http://woodandwiremusic.bandcamp.com" target=
=3D"_blank"><em>The Recordings of Wood and Wire Music</em></a>=A0- &#39;Org=
anically inspired New Music&#39;</div><div>=A0</div><div><em><a href=3D"htt=
p://jimgoodinpeterthorn.bandcamp.com" target=3D"_blank">From Brooklyn To Gl=
indran</a></em>, a new World/Free Jazz recording by Jim Goodin &amp; Peter =
Th=F6rn.=A0 Proceeds from this CD will benefit <em><a href=3D"http://jdrf.o=
rg" target=3D"_blank">JDRF International</a></em></div>
<div><br><em><a href=3D"http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tips-across-the-wate=
rs/id474128076?mt=3D8" target=3D"_blank">Tips Across the Waters</a></em>, a=
 new app for iOS from James Goodin/Wood and Wire Ware.</div>

--047d7b6225200752f504d450b3a3--

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On Jan 27, 2013, at 10:53 AM, Kris Hartung wrote:

> I second Rick's recommendation on in-ear monitors.  And, I highly =
recommend the Westone.  These guys make some amazing systems, and have =
for years.
> http://www.westone.com/music/
>=20
> I decided to just get their top of the line monitor, the ES5, which is =
custom fit to your ear, 8hz to 20kHz frequency range, 5 drivers, 3-way =
cross-over....just amazing in sound.  I figured the investment was worth =
it considering how much time I listen to music, either on state, at home =
through my mac, etc.
>=20
> But they have some less expensive custom in-ear systems, like the AC1 =
and AC2 that are good too.
>=20
> For my band, I also bought this Prosonus headphone amp/distribution =
system, which is pretty cool.  Each person can have an A/B mix, and an =
external mix of their own instrument.
>=20
> Kris

How would these be for recording when working with am modelers? I have a =
good pair of Sennheiser headphones but it still feels unnatural and the =
bass feels weak. (That said, I have some suspicion that my Mackie mixer =
isn't up to driving the Sennheisers.)

Mark

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jan 28 06:31:31 2013
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To: RP Collier <skeptikalist@gmail.com>,
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Subject: Re: Re: new video/song
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On 1/27/2013 8:39 AM, RP Collier wrote:
>  I slowed the speed down to about 47% making the clip a bit over 8 
> minutes long so that it fit the audio time. Any apparent syncing of 
> audio to image is by chance.
>
> ********************
I love this effect.  In the past few years I have done a lot of really 
intricate hand editing to visually 'score' my
abstract electronica but in the past year,  I've become fascinated by 
the fact that the mind will syncrhonize
things that aren't even really synced.       It's just lovely, that 
syncrhonicity and I don't ever seem to get enough
of that 'effect'.

It's just beautiful and evocative in this particular clip.
We don't get a lot of archival videos of people doing prosaic things 
like playing,  eating,  laughing, etc.
I love it when people are captured just being normal...........nothing 
special,   no mugging for the cameras.

Beautiful!

Rick
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jan 28 08:01:43 2013
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Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 09:01:39 +0100
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Subject: Re: new video/song
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I agree Rick, when I was at college I absorbed myself in artist
filmakers, who simply filmed stuff that was going on. Jonas Mekas,
Stan Brakhage, even Andy Warhol comes into this catagory, there was a
re-emergence of the form in the 80's using the more immediate and
cheaper video. Anyone that knows my own film work will know that 50%
of it is timelapse or just everyday filming. The beauty if it is that
it matures with age. Using old archival footage is great, but don't
forget that today's mundane and everyday actions can look cool too! In
years to come, or simply that where YOU live can seem alien and
strange to your displaced friends!
Film Stuff Today! Even(especially) if its just your view from the
window you are sitting at right now!!!

Mark

Sent from my (advertisement removed)

On 28 Jan 2013, at 07:31, Rick Walker <looppool@cruzio.com> wrote:

> On 1/27/2013 8:39 AM, RP Collier wrote:
>> I slowed the speed down to about 47% making the clip a bit over 8 minutes long so that it fit the audio time. Any apparent syncing of audio to image is by chance.
>>
>> ********************
> I love this effect.  In the past few years I have done a lot of really intricate hand editing to visually 'score' my
> abstract electronica but in the past year,  I've become fascinated by the fact that the mind will syncrhonize
> things that aren't even really synced.       It's just lovely, that syncrhonicity and I don't ever seem to get enough
> of that 'effect'.
>
> It's just beautiful and evocative in this particular clip.
> We don't get a lot of archival videos of people doing prosaic things like playing,  eating,  laughing, etc.
> I love it when people are captured just being normal...........nothing special,   no mugging for the cameras.
>
> Beautiful!
>
> Rick
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jan 28 09:49:15 2013
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Yep, you could try a data recovery program.

Likely
..the free demo will let you see if recovery is possible, 
and maybe salvage one or 2 files. After that you'll have to pay.

While the data will still be on the disk, it's possible the directory
structure is gone, especially as you did that stuff on Windows.

If the mechanism to read the disk is damaged you'll need to send 
it away for data recovery, and pay a lot.


If you can find someone local to you who will run data recovery
at a reasonable price it might be a good idea just to go to them.
They'll know what works already, and won't erase more data in the attempt to recover.

good luck,
..and from now on you'll keep a backup, right?

andy






Art Simon wrote:
> There are several free data recovery software programs out there. I've 
> actually had very good luck with them the few times I've needed it. I 
> can't remember the particular version I used, but a search on 
> downloads.com <http://downloads.com> turned up this:
> http://download.cnet.com/File-Scavenger-Data-Recovery-Utility/3000-2094_4-10028488.html
> 
> If that one doesn't work, try a few more. Hopefully you will 
> be pleasantly surprised.
> 

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Le 27/01/2013 23:26, Kevin Cheli-Colando a écrit :
> Hello brilliant people of LD,
>
> I know this is a long shot but i bet most of you have encountered
> something of this sort in the past.
>
> I have a 2 TB harddrive that was pre-formatted for MAC and Windows
> storage (no individual file could be over 4 GB) and all was good in
> the world.
>
> Yesterday, with no real warning at all my Macbook told me it had
> errors and I couldn't copy to it or from it.  Connected it to a
> WIndows machine, it asked if I wanted to scan and fix errors, I said
> yes, it did its thing and now it isn't recognized as being formatted.
>
> Any comments (other than backup your backups) or suggestions on how to
> recover this?
>
> All this and Monday coming...
>
> Thanks as always,
>
> Kevin
>
personnaly my macbook was dead since few week and i have backup my hdd 
of my mac on a windows computer with the program macdrive there is a 
demo who dure 6 days but this is suffisant to back up he recognize the 
hdd and you can take your data

ther link: http://macdrive.softonic.fr/

julien

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> good luck,
> ..and from now on you'll keep a backup, right?

I'm thinking I like living dangerously and would prefer to go through
this scenario every couple of years so no back ups for me.

Seriously though, yes, I will probably think about buying four or five
hard drives at a time at this point.

Kevin

 --
Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and to have a
form. That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all trouble.

- Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)

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On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 12:20 PM, Kevin Cheli-Colando
<billowhead@gmail.com>wrote:

>
>
> Seriously though, yes, I will probably think about buying four or five
> hard drives at a time at this point.
>
>
Depending on the nature of the files, I'd suggest looking into online
storage.  Let someone else worry about the redundancy...

There is only one (almost) permanent digital storage solution that I'm
aware of and it's not yet commercially available (nor is it very pragmatic
for the home user):

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2010588/hitachi-targets-2015-for-glass-based-data-storage-that-lasts-100-million-years.html

You should assume that everything else will fail.  (Paper still works,
though)

I've had some success with a software called DiskWarrior on OS X, but there
are so many ways in which a hard drive can fail...  YMMV

Sylvain

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On M=
on, Jan 28, 2013 at 12:20 PM, Kevin Cheli-Colando <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:billowhead@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">billowhead@gmail.com=
</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;=
margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color=
:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>
<br></div>
<br>
Seriously though, yes, I will probably think about buying four or five<br>
hard drives at a time at this point.<br>
<div><div><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Depending on the=
 nature of the files, I&#39;d suggest looking into online storage. =A0Let s=
omeone else worry about the redundancy...</div><div>
<br></div><div>There is only one (almost)=A0permanent=A0digital storage sol=
ution that I&#39;m aware of and it&#39;s not yet commercially available (no=
r is it very pragmatic for the home user):=A0</div><div><br></div><div><a h=
ref=3D"http://www.pcworld.com/article/2010588/hitachi-targets-2015-for-glas=
s-based-data-storage-that-lasts-100-million-years.html" target=3D"_blank">h=
ttp://www.pcworld.com/article/2010588/hitachi-targets-2015-for-glass-based-=
data-storage-that-lasts-100-million-years.html</a><br>

</div><div><br></div><div>You should assume that everything else will fail.=
 =A0(Paper still works, though)</div><div><br></div><div>I&#39;ve had some =
success with a software called DiskWarrior on OS X, but there are so many w=
ays in which a hard drive can fail... =A0YMMV</div>
<div><br></div><div>Sylvain=A0</div></div></div></div>

--047d7b6d96248e069504d45d74b8--

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I use 'crashplan' for offsite backups, and can recommend it-- they offer a
service where they ship you a hard drive, and you seed your own online
backup with it; they have no throttling or storage limit (unlike
carbonite). Worth the dough for the peace of mind.

T


On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Sylvain Poitras <
sylvain.trombone@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 12:20 PM, Kevin Cheli-Colando <
> billowhead@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Seriously though, yes, I will probably think about buying four or five
>> hard drives at a time at this point.
>>
>>
> Depending on the nature of the files, I'd suggest looking into online
> storage.  Let someone else worry about the redundancy...
>
> There is only one (almost) permanent digital storage solution that I'm
> aware of and it's not yet commercially available (nor is it very pragmatic
> for the home user):
>
>
> http://www.pcworld.com/article/2010588/hitachi-targets-2015-for-glass-based-data-storage-that-lasts-100-million-years.html
>
> You should assume that everything else will fail.  (Paper still works,
> though)
>
> I've had some success with a software called DiskWarrior on OS X, but
> there are so many ways in which a hard drive can fail...  YMMV
>
> Sylvain
>



-- 
http://toaster.bandcamp.com

--20cf301d4414e35e3904d45e11a6
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
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I use &#39;crashplan&#39; for offsite backups, and can recommend it-- they =
offer a service where they ship you a hard drive, and you seed your own onl=
ine backup with it; they have no throttling or storage limit (unlike carbon=
ite). Worth the dough for the peace of mind.=A0<div>
<br></div><div>T</div><div><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 2=
8, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Sylvain Poitras <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:sylvain.trombone@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">sylvain.trombone@gmail.com<=
/a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra">=
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 12:20 PM, Kevin Cheli-Co=
lando <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:billowhead@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">billowhead@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>


<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;=
margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color=
:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>
<br></div>
<br>
Seriously though, yes, I will probably think about buying four or five<br>
hard drives at a time at this point.<br>
<div><div><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Depending on the=
 nature of the files, I&#39;d suggest looking into online storage. =A0Let s=
omeone else worry about the redundancy...</div><div>
<br></div><div>There is only one (almost)=A0permanent=A0digital storage sol=
ution that I&#39;m aware of and it&#39;s not yet commercially available (no=
r is it very pragmatic for the home user):=A0</div><div><br></div><div><a h=
ref=3D"http://www.pcworld.com/article/2010588/hitachi-targets-2015-for-glas=
s-based-data-storage-that-lasts-100-million-years.html" target=3D"_blank">h=
ttp://www.pcworld.com/article/2010588/hitachi-targets-2015-for-glass-based-=
data-storage-that-lasts-100-million-years.html</a><br>


</div><div><br></div><div>You should assume that everything else will fail.=
 =A0(Paper still works, though)</div><div><br></div><div>I&#39;ve had some =
success with a software called DiskWarrior on OS X, but there are so many w=
ays in which a hard drive can fail... =A0YMMV</div>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">
<div><br></div><div>Sylvain=A0</div></font></span></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><a href=3D"h=
ttp://toaster.bandcamp.com" target=3D"_blank">http://toaster.bandcamp.com</=
a>
</div>

--20cf301d4414e35e3904d45e11a6--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jan 28 20:11:44 2013
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Subject: Re: OT Data Recovery - backup
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 12:11:35 -0800
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For backup Drobo is great. =20

www.drobo.com

Not cheap.  I've had mine for five years now and no (knock on wood, =
inshallah etc) crash.  The main machines crash, but Drobo keeps on =
chugging.  Drives have failed in Drobo but the other drives keep the =
data.  So I just replace the dead one and I'm back off to the races. =20

I believe it's sort of a Raid 1 - maybe Raid 1 for dummies.=20

I have 12TB in mine.  Around a third is used for redundancy.  Seems =
stupid till one of the Drobo drives croaks, then it's Hallelujah time.   =
My model (older) can hold up to 16TB.  Newer ones are faster and hold =
more.=20

Another cool device that requires more hands on attention is the Newer =
Technology "Voyager".  It's like a little toaster you stick internal =
drives in.  I take the old crashed drives from Drobo, reformat and use =
them in the Voyager for backing up very critical stuff.  Cheap and easy. =
 Not as reliable as Drobo as you have to stick the drives in now and =
then and keep them exercised.=20

Backup technology is still cave man tech, but at least with Drobo your =
club is, say, iron instead of balsa wood.

Cloud is cool if you don't have multi terabytes of data to upload. Maybe =
if I go on a two month tour I could upload that while gone.  Relatively =
slow connect here at the edge of the known universe.

For external audio drives, I use Other World Computing drives.  They are =
quite rugged, considering.

Always sorry to hear about crashes.=20

richard sales
www.glasswing.com
www.richardsales.com
www.hayleysales.com
www.goodnaturefarms.com











On Jan 28, 2013, at 11:13 AM, Todd Elliott wrote:

> I use 'crashplan' for offsite backups, and can recommend it-- they =
offer a service where they ship you a hard drive, and you seed your own =
online backup with it; they have no throttling or storage limit (unlike =
carbonite). Worth the dough for the peace of mind.=20
>=20
> T
>=20
>=20
> On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Sylvain Poitras =
<sylvain.trombone@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 12:20 PM, Kevin Cheli-Colando =
<billowhead@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
>=20
> Seriously though, yes, I will probably think about buying four or five
> hard drives at a time at this point.
>=20
>=20
> Depending on the nature of the files, I'd suggest looking into online =
storage.  Let someone else worry about the redundancy...
>=20
> There is only one (almost) permanent digital storage solution that I'm =
aware of and it's not yet commercially available (nor is it very =
pragmatic for the home user):=20
>=20
> =
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2010588/hitachi-targets-2015-for-glass-base=
d-data-storage-that-lasts-100-million-years.html
>=20
> You should assume that everything else will fail.  (Paper still works, =
though)
>=20
> I've had some success with a software called DiskWarrior on OS X, but =
there are so many ways in which a hard drive can fail...  YMMV
>=20
> Sylvain=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> --=20
> http://toaster.bandcamp.com


--Apple-Mail-2-992089828
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=us-ascii

<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">For =
backup Drobo is great. &nbsp;<div><br></div><div><a =
href=3D"http://www.drobo.com">www.drobo.com</a></div><div><br></div><div>N=
ot cheap. &nbsp;I've had mine for five years now and no (knock on wood, =
inshallah etc) crash. &nbsp;The main machines crash, but Drobo keeps on =
chugging. &nbsp;Drives have failed in Drobo but the other drives keep =
the data. &nbsp;So I just replace the dead one and I'm back off to the =
races. &nbsp;<div><br></div><div>I believe it's sort of a Raid 1 - maybe =
Raid 1 for dummies.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>I have 12TB in mine. =
&nbsp;Around a third is used for redundancy. &nbsp;Seems stupid till one =
of the Drobo drives croaks, then it's Hallelujah time. &nbsp; My model =
(older) can hold up to 16TB. &nbsp;Newer ones are faster and hold =
more.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Another cool device that requires =
more hands on attention is the Newer Technology "Voyager". &nbsp;It's =
like a little toaster you stick internal drives in. &nbsp;I take the old =
crashed drives from Drobo, reformat and use them in the Voyager for =
backing up very critical stuff. &nbsp;Cheap and easy. &nbsp;Not as =
reliable as Drobo as you have to stick the drives in now and then and =
keep them exercised.&nbsp;<br><div><br></div><div>Backup technology is =
still cave man tech, but at least with Drobo your club is, say, iron =
instead of balsa wood.</div><div><br></div><div>Cloud is cool if you =
don't have multi terabytes of data to upload. Maybe if I go on a two =
month tour I could upload that while gone. &nbsp;Relatively slow connect =
here at the edge of the known universe.</div><div><br></div><div>For =
external audio drives, I use Other World Computing drives. &nbsp;They =
are quite rugged, considering.</div><div><br></div><div>Always sorry to =
hear about crashes.&nbsp;</div><div><br><div>
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"Arial">richard sales</font></div><div><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#908E38"><a =
href=3D"http://www.glasswing.com">www.glasswing.com</a></font></div><div><=
font class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#908E38"><a =
href=3D"http://www.richardsales.com">www.richardsales.com</a></font></div>=
<div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#908E38"><a =
href=3D"http://www.hayleysales.com">www.hayleysales.com</a></font></div><d=
iv><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#908E38"><a =
href=3D"http://www.goodnaturefarms.com">www.goodnaturefarms.com</a></font>=
</div><div><br></div></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br><div><div>On Jan 28, 2013, at 11:13 AM, Todd Elliott wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite">I use =
'crashplan' for offsite backups, and can recommend it-- they offer a =
service where they ship you a hard drive, and you seed your own online =
backup with it; they have no throttling or storage limit (unlike =
carbonite). Worth the dough for the peace of mind.&nbsp;<div>
<br></div><div>T</div><div><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, =
Jan 28, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Sylvain Poitras <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:sylvain.trombone@gmail.com" =
target=3D"_blank">sylvain.trombone@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div =
class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at =
12:20 PM, Kevin Cheli-Colando <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:billowhead@gmail.com" =
target=3D"_blank">billowhead@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>


<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8=
ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-st=
yle:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>
<br></div>
<br>
Seriously though, yes, I will probably think about buying four or =
five<br>
hard drives at a time at this point.<br>
<div><div><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Depending on =
the nature of the files, I'd suggest looking into online storage. =
&nbsp;Let someone else worry about the redundancy...</div><div>
<br></div><div>There is only one (almost)&nbsp;permanent&nbsp;digital =
storage solution that I'm aware of and it's not yet commercially =
available (nor is it very pragmatic for the home =
user):&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div><a =
href=3D"http://www.pcworld.com/article/2010588/hitachi-targets-2015-for-gl=
ass-based-data-storage-that-lasts-100-million-years.html" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.pcworld.com/article/2010588/hitachi-targets-2=
015-for-glass-based-data-storage-that-lasts-100-million-years.html</a><br>=



</div><div><br></div><div>You should assume that everything else will =
fail. &nbsp;(Paper still works, though)</div><div><br></div><div>I've =
had some success with a software called DiskWarrior on OS X, but there =
are so many ways in which a hard drive can fail... &nbsp;YMMV</div>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">
<div><br></div><div>Sylvain&nbsp;</div></font></span></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><a =
href=3D"http://toaster.bandcamp.com/" =
target=3D"_blank">http://toaster.bandcamp.com</a>
</div>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-2-992089828--

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I'll check Crashplan out.  I've heard about it.  The idea of loading all =
the stuff onto a HD and sending rather than uploading is quite =
compelling.
Thanks Todd
richard sales
www.glasswing.com
www.richardsales.com
www.hayleysales.com
www.goodnaturefarms.com











On Jan 28, 2013, at 11:13 AM, Todd Elliott wrote:

> I use 'crashplan' for offsite backups, and can recommend it-- they =
offer a service where they ship you a hard drive, and you seed your own =
online backup with it; they have no throttling or storage limit (unlike =
carbonite). Worth the dough for the peace of mind.=20
>=20
> T
>=20
>=20
> On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Sylvain Poitras =
<sylvain.trombone@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 12:20 PM, Kevin Cheli-Colando =
<billowhead@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
>=20
> Seriously though, yes, I will probably think about buying four or five
> hard drives at a time at this point.
>=20
>=20
> Depending on the nature of the files, I'd suggest looking into online =
storage.  Let someone else worry about the redundancy...
>=20
> There is only one (almost) permanent digital storage solution that I'm =
aware of and it's not yet commercially available (nor is it very =
pragmatic for the home user):=20
>=20
> =
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2010588/hitachi-targets-2015-for-glass-base=
d-data-storage-that-lasts-100-million-years.html
>=20
> You should assume that everything else will fail.  (Paper still works, =
though)
>=20
> I've had some success with a software called DiskWarrior on OS X, but =
there are so many ways in which a hard drive can fail...  YMMV
>=20
> Sylvain=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> --=20
> http://toaster.bandcamp.com


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<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">I'll =
check Crashplan out. &nbsp;I've heard about it. &nbsp;The idea of =
loading all the stuff onto a HD and sending rather than uploading is =
quite compelling.<div>Thanks Todd<br><div>
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"Arial">richard sales</font></div><div><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#908E38"><a =
href=3D"http://www.glasswing.com">www.glasswing.com</a></font></div><div><=
font class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#908E38"><a =
href=3D"http://www.richardsales.com">www.richardsales.com</a></font></div>=
<div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#908E38"><a =
href=3D"http://www.hayleysales.com">www.hayleysales.com</a></font></div><d=
iv><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#908E38"><a =
href=3D"http://www.goodnaturefarms.com">www.goodnaturefarms.com</a></font>=
</div><div><br></div></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br><div><div>On Jan 28, 2013, at 11:13 AM, Todd Elliott wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite">I use =
'crashplan' for offsite backups, and can recommend it-- they offer a =
service where they ship you a hard drive, and you seed your own online =
backup with it; they have no throttling or storage limit (unlike =
carbonite). Worth the dough for the peace of mind.&nbsp;<div>
<br></div><div>T</div><div><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, =
Jan 28, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Sylvain Poitras <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:sylvain.trombone@gmail.com" =
target=3D"_blank">sylvain.trombone@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div =
class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at =
12:20 PM, Kevin Cheli-Colando <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:billowhead@gmail.com" =
target=3D"_blank">billowhead@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>


<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8=
ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-st=
yle:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>
<br></div>
<br>
Seriously though, yes, I will probably think about buying four or =
five<br>
hard drives at a time at this point.<br>
<div><div><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Depending on =
the nature of the files, I'd suggest looking into online storage. =
&nbsp;Let someone else worry about the redundancy...</div><div>
<br></div><div>There is only one (almost)&nbsp;permanent&nbsp;digital =
storage solution that I'm aware of and it's not yet commercially =
available (nor is it very pragmatic for the home =
user):&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div><a =
href=3D"http://www.pcworld.com/article/2010588/hitachi-targets-2015-for-gl=
ass-based-data-storage-that-lasts-100-million-years.html" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.pcworld.com/article/2010588/hitachi-targets-2=
015-for-glass-based-data-storage-that-lasts-100-million-years.html</a><br>=



</div><div><br></div><div>You should assume that everything else will =
fail. &nbsp;(Paper still works, though)</div><div><br></div><div>I've =
had some success with a software called DiskWarrior on OS X, but there =
are so many ways in which a hard drive can fail... &nbsp;YMMV</div>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">
<div><br></div><div>Sylvain&nbsp;</div></font></span></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><a =
href=3D"http://toaster.bandcamp.com/" =
target=3D"_blank">http://toaster.bandcamp.com</a>
</div>
</blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-3-992216167--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jan 28 21:25:52 2013
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Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 13:25:32 -0800
From: Rick Walker <looppool@cruzio.com>
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To: Mark Hamburg <mark@grubmah.com>,
        "LOOPERS DELIGHT (posting)" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Re: Re: feedback issue with mics in live performance
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The Sony Professional Headphones that go for around $90 have really good 
and accurate bass response, Mark, for what it's worth.

If it weren't dangerous for mixing (just because you need the cross talk 
of stereo speakers
to give yourself a realistic feel for your reverberation levels) I'd mix 
all my albums on them.

The bass response is really good and it's not exaggerated like so many 
home systems with subwoofers
in them.

On 1/27/2013 8:47 PM, Mark Hamburg wrote:
> How would these be for recording when working with am modelers? I have a good pair of Sennheiser headphones but it still feels unnatural and the bass feels weak. (That said, I have some suspicion that my Mackie mixer isn't up to driving the Sennheisers.)


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jan 28 21:27:39 2013
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To: "LOOPERS DELIGHT (posting)" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Future LP-1 Production
References: <10151641934654918-26673374917@groups.facebook.com> <e9ff8a928f6a2491f36976a552e9348d@async.facebook.com>
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> Kevin Martin 
> <http://www.facebook.com/n/?kevin.martin.102&mid=770bab0G2515e344Ga3c6978G12e&bcode=1.1359396227.Abn9PvlQQbbCDRkw&n_m=looppool%40cruzio.com> 
> 	
> Kevin Martin wrote (at the Loopers Delight@FacebookGroups)
> <http://www.facebook.com/n/?kevin.martin.102&mid=770bab0G2515e344Ga3c6978G12e&bcode=1.1359396227.Abn9PvlQQbbCDRkw&n_m=looppool%40cruzio.com> 
> 	9:52am Jan 28
>
> Shame about the LP1. Seeing Steve Lawson 
> <http://www.facebook.com/stevelawson.net> with his at a house concert 
> was my introduction to loopers. It was an amazing peice of gear, in 
> his hands/feet anyway. Anyone know if Bob 
> <http://www.facebook.com/bob.amstadt> is even considering bringing 
> them back into production?
>

For what it's worth,   Bob Amstadt has the ability to make more LP-1s.
Unless, however,  he can sell 12 of them, definitely,  he will lose too 
much
money to make them.

Anyone who seriously wants to purchase one could always organize a 
'group buy'
through Loopers Delight,  LiveLoop.Org,  and all the Live Looping Groups 
at Facebook.

I know I've heard of at least 12 people who are looking to buy one and I 
get people
asking me all the time if I have heard of any for sale, used.

Rick Walker

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jan 28 21:50:13 2013
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During the week before and during the Y2KX Loopfestival,   my PC and my 
Macbook Pro both took a dive
(they were redundant).............luckily, though it took hours to 
recover the information,  I had duplicated all of my email
posts to a g-mail account (which was not organized).
I went out and bought 3 500 gig harddrives after 
that........................backup,  backup,  backup

On 1/28/2013 9:20 AM, Kevin Cheli-Colando wrote:
> I'm thinking I like living dangerously and would prefer to go through 
> this scenario every couple of years so no back ups for me. Seriously 
> though, yes, I will probably think about buying four or five hard 
> drives at a time at this point. Kevin --

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jan 28 22:32:34 2013
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To: richard sales <richard@glasswing.com>,
        "LOOPERS DELIGHT (posting)" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: DATA BACKUP
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Last week a new free cloud storage site was launched in New Zealand that
offers 50 gigs of storage for free.   They got over a million customers
in a couple of days, apparently.

They are called  MEGA              you can upload and download to it and 
send out
the download information to your friends if apropos.

https://mega.co.nz

/R.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jan 28 22:59:51 2013
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	<5106FC7D.2070709@cruzio.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 17:59:50 -0500
Message-ID: <CAF-7VCC6TLwctWCXbKeNMoToqm_0XSpDKKPwdv0_mik3R0GeMw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: DATA BACKUP
From: Jim Goodin <jimgoodinmusic@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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Rick thanks for the heads up.  Looks good, I signed up.  Wondering if it's
a promotional that will dry up in 6 months but regardless it's a nice
storage deal for now.

Jim

On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 5:32 PM, Rick Walker <looppool@cruzio.com> wrote:

> Last week a new free cloud storage site was launched in New Zealand that
> offers 50 gigs of storage for free.   They got over a million customers
> in a couple of days, apparently.
>
> They are called  MEGA              you can upload and download to it and
> send out
> the download information to your friends if apropos.
>
> https://mega.co.nz
>
> /R.
>
>


--=20
--=20
*jimgoodin.com* <http://jimgoodin.com> - 'Acoustic guitar renaissance,
color blue, repetitive minimalism'

*The Recordings of Wood and Wire Music*<http://woodandwiremusic.bandcamp.co=
m> -
'Organically inspired New Music'

*From Brooklyn To Glindran <http://jimgoodinpeterthorn.bandcamp.com>*, a
new World/Free Jazz recording by Jim Goodin & Peter Th=F6rn.  Proceeds from
this CD will benefit *JDRF International <http://jdrf.org>*

*Tips Across the
Waters<http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tips-across-the-waters/id474128076?mt=
=3D8>
*, a new app for iOS from James Goodin/Wood and Wire Ware.

--047d7b343b2a003e2e04d4613cae
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<div>Rick thanks for the heads up.=A0 Looks good, I signed up.=A0 Wondering=
 if it&#39;s a promotional that will dry up in 6 months but regardless it&#=
39;s a nice storage deal for now.</div><div>=A0</div><div>Jim<br><br></div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 5:32 PM, Rick Walker <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:looppool@cruzio.com" target=3D"_blank">looppool@cruzio.com</a>&g=
t;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-l=
eft:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-lef=
t-style:solid" class=3D"gmail_quote">
Last week a new free cloud storage site was launched in New Zealand that<br=
>
offers 50 gigs of storage for free. =A0 They got over a million customers<b=
r>
in a couple of days, apparently.<br>
<br>
They are called =A0MEGA =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0you can upload and downl=
oad to it and send out<br>
the download information to your friends if apropos.<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"https://mega.co.nz" target=3D"_blank">https://mega.co.nz</a><spa=
n class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
<br>
/R.<br>
<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div>-- <=
/div><div><a href=3D"http://jimgoodin.com" target=3D"_blank"><em>jimgoodin.=
com</em></a> - &#39;Acoustic guitar renaissance, color blue, repetitive min=
imalism&#39;</div>
<div>=A0</div><div><a href=3D"http://woodandwiremusic.bandcamp.com" target=
=3D"_blank"><em>The Recordings of Wood and Wire Music</em></a>=A0- &#39;Org=
anically inspired New Music&#39;</div><div>=A0</div><div><em><a href=3D"htt=
p://jimgoodinpeterthorn.bandcamp.com" target=3D"_blank">From Brooklyn To Gl=
indran</a></em>, a new World/Free Jazz recording by Jim Goodin &amp; Peter =
Th=F6rn.=A0 Proceeds from this CD will benefit <em><a href=3D"http://jdrf.o=
rg" target=3D"_blank">JDRF International</a></em></div>
<div><br><em><a href=3D"http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tips-across-the-wate=
rs/id474128076?mt=3D8" target=3D"_blank">Tips Across the Waters</a></em>, a=
 new app for iOS from James Goodin/Wood and Wire Ware.</div>

--047d7b343b2a003e2e04d4613cae--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jan 28 23:07:39 2013
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	<5106FC7D.2070709@cruzio.com>
	<CAF-7VCC6TLwctWCXbKeNMoToqm_0XSpDKKPwdv0_mik3R0GeMw@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 18:07:39 -0500
Message-ID: <CAK7t346vQ1JfxDJwP7sngKNEJ9=J+W_BvmnkqFAYdep5sNKbtg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: DATA BACKUP
From: Jeff Duke <jeffloops@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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--002354470058f291ac04d4615712
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I have also opened a Mega account just for testing. It got slammed at first
but has started working pretty well now. 50 gigs is pretty good for free!
Everything is encrypted to the point that if you lose your password you can
not get another!!! So take heed. They are talking about implementing a way
to do that in the future.

However...Mega is a new company from Kim Dot Com who you might remember
from Megaupload fame. The gov shut down Megaupload and is still trying to
extradite him. Anti pirate groups and the gov I assume also really want
Mega shut down badly! So the point being don't count on this site being
your only backup. Just Google for more info on Mega.

eyes open,

Jeff

On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 5:59 PM, Jim Goodin <jimgoodinmusic@gmail.com>wrote=
:

> Rick thanks for the heads up.  Looks good, I signed up.  Wondering if it'=
s
> a promotional that will dry up in 6 months but regardless it's a nice
> storage deal for now.
>
> Jim
>
> On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 5:32 PM, Rick Walker <looppool@cruzio.com> wrote:
>
>> Last week a new free cloud storage site was launched in New Zealand that
>> offers 50 gigs of storage for free.   They got over a million customers
>> in a couple of days, apparently.
>>
>> They are called  MEGA              you can upload and download to it and
>> send out
>> the download information to your friends if apropos.
>>
>> https://mega.co.nz
>>
>> /R.
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> --
> *jimgoodin.com* <http://jimgoodin.com> - 'Acoustic guitar renaissance,
> color blue, repetitive minimalism'
>
> *The Recordings of Wood and Wire Music*<http://woodandwiremusic.bandcamp.=
com> -
> 'Organically inspired New Music'
>
> *From Brooklyn To Glindran <http://jimgoodinpeterthorn.bandcamp.com>*, a
> new World/Free Jazz recording by Jim Goodin & Peter Th=F6rn.  Proceeds fr=
om
> this CD will benefit *JDRF International <http://jdrf.org>*
>
> *Tips Across the Waters<http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tips-across-the-wa=
ters/id474128076?mt=3D8>
> *, a new app for iOS from James Goodin/Wood and Wire Ware.
>

--002354470058f291ac04d4615712
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I have also opened a Mega account just for testing. It got slammed at first=
 but has started working pretty well now. 50 gigs is pretty good for free! =
Everything is encrypted to the point that if you lose your password you can=
 not get another!!! So take heed. They are talking about implementing a way=
 to do that in the future.<br>
<br>However...Mega is a new company from Kim Dot Com who you might remember=
 from Megaupload fame. The gov shut down Megaupload and is still trying to =
extradite him. Anti pirate groups and the gov I assume also really want Meg=
a shut down badly! So the point being don&#39;t count on this site being yo=
ur only backup. Just Google for more info on Mega.<br>
<br>eyes open,<br><br>Jeff<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 28=
, 2013 at 5:59 PM, Jim Goodin <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jimgo=
odinmusic@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jimgoodinmusic@gmail.com</a>&gt;</sp=
an> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>Rick thanks for the heads up.=A0 Looks =
good, I signed up.=A0 Wondering if it&#39;s a promotional that will dry up =
in 6 months but regardless it&#39;s a nice storage deal for now.</div>
<div>=A0</div><div>Jim<br><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote">
On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 5:32 PM, Rick Walker <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:looppool@cruzio.com" target=3D"_blank">looppool@cruzio.com</a>&g=
t;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-l=
eft:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-lef=
t-style:solid" class=3D"gmail_quote">

Last week a new free cloud storage site was launched in New Zealand that<br=
>
offers 50 gigs of storage for free. =A0 They got over a million customers<b=
r>
in a couple of days, apparently.<br>
<br>
They are called =A0MEGA =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0you can upload and downl=
oad to it and send out<br>
the download information to your friends if apropos.<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"https://mega.co.nz" target=3D"_blank">https://mega.co.nz</a><spa=
n><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
<br>
/R.<br>
<br><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">
</font></span></font></span></blockquote></div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font=
 color=3D"#888888"><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div>-- </div><div><a h=
ref=3D"http://jimgoodin.com" target=3D"_blank"><i>jimgoodin.com</i></a> - &=
#39;Acoustic guitar renaissance, color blue, repetitive minimalism&#39;</di=
v>

<div>=A0</div><div><a href=3D"http://woodandwiremusic.bandcamp.com" target=
=3D"_blank"><i>The Recordings of Wood and Wire Music</i></a>=A0- &#39;Organ=
ically inspired New Music&#39;</div><div>=A0</div><div><i><a href=3D"http:/=
/jimgoodinpeterthorn.bandcamp.com" target=3D"_blank">From Brooklyn To Glind=
ran</a></i>, a new World/Free Jazz recording by Jim Goodin &amp; Peter Th=
=F6rn.=A0 Proceeds from this CD will benefit <i><a href=3D"http://jdrf.org"=
 target=3D"_blank">JDRF International</a></i></div>

<div><br><i><a href=3D"http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tips-across-the-water=
s/id474128076?mt=3D8" target=3D"_blank">Tips Across the Waters</a></i>, a n=
ew app for iOS from James Goodin/Wood and Wire Ware.</div>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br>

--002354470058f291ac04d4615712--

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	<5106FC7D.2070709@cruzio.com>
	<CAF-7VCC6TLwctWCXbKeNMoToqm_0XSpDKKPwdv0_mik3R0GeMw@mail.gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: DATA BACKUP
From: Jim Goodin <jimgoodinmusic@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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--047d7b624ab8bd4b8704d46161be
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Jeff thanks that's interesting but it is what it is for now, maybe this
time it will work.  It's a generous incentive.  That's wild about the pw
but maybe a good thing in a sense.

On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 6:07 PM, Jeff Duke <jeffloops@gmail.com> wrote:

> I have also opened a Mega account just for testing. It got slammed at
> first but has started working pretty well now. 50 gigs is pretty good for
> free! Everything is encrypted to the point that if you lose your password
> you can not get another!!! So take heed. They are talking about
> implementing a way to do that in the future.
>
> However...Mega is a new company from Kim Dot Com who you might remember
> from Megaupload fame. The gov shut down Megaupload and is still trying to
> extradite him. Anti pirate groups and the gov I assume also really want
> Mega shut down badly! So the point being don't count on this site being
> your only backup. Just Google for more info on Mega.
>
> eyes open,
>
> Jeff
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 5:59 PM, Jim Goodin <jimgoodinmusic@gmail.com>wro=
te:
>
>> Rick thanks for the heads up.  Looks good, I signed up.  Wondering if
>> it's a promotional that will dry up in 6 months but regardless it's a ni=
ce
>> storage deal for now.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 5:32 PM, Rick Walker <looppool@cruzio.com> wrote=
:
>>
>>> Last week a new free cloud storage site was launched in New Zealand tha=
t
>>> offers 50 gigs of storage for free.   They got over a million customers
>>> in a couple of days, apparently.
>>>
>>> They are called  MEGA              you can upload and download to it an=
d
>>> send out
>>> the download information to your friends if apropos.
>>>
>>> https://mega.co.nz
>>>
>>> /R.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> *jimgoodin.com* <http://jimgoodin.com> - 'Acoustic guitar renaissance,
>> color blue, repetitive minimalism'
>>
>> *The Recordings of Wood and Wire Music*<http://woodandwiremusic.bandcamp=
.com> -
>> 'Organically inspired New Music'
>>
>> *From Brooklyn To Glindran <http://jimgoodinpeterthorn.bandcamp.com>*, a
>> new World/Free Jazz recording by Jim Goodin & Peter Th=F6rn.  Proceeds f=
rom
>> this CD will benefit *JDRF International <http://jdrf.org>*
>>
>> *Tips Across the Waters<http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tips-across-the-w=
aters/id474128076?mt=3D8>
>> *, a new app for iOS from James Goodin/Wood and Wire Ware.
>>
>
>


--=20
--=20
*jimgoodin.com* <http://jimgoodin.com> - 'Acoustic guitar renaissance,
color blue, repetitive minimalism'

*The Recordings of Wood and Wire Music*<http://woodandwiremusic.bandcamp.co=
m> -
'Organically inspired New Music'

*From Brooklyn To Glindran <http://jimgoodinpeterthorn.bandcamp.com>*, a
new World/Free Jazz recording by Jim Goodin & Peter Th=F6rn.  Proceeds from
this CD will benefit *JDRF International <http://jdrf.org>*

*Tips Across the
Waters<http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tips-across-the-waters/id474128076?mt=
=3D8>
*, a new app for iOS from James Goodin/Wood and Wire Ware.

--047d7b624ab8bd4b8704d46161be
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Jeff thanks that&#39;s interesting but it is what it is for now, maybe this=
 time it will work.=A0 It&#39;s a generous incentive.=A0 That&#39;s wild ab=
out the pw but maybe a good thing in a sense.<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote">
On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 6:07 PM, Jeff Duke <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:jeffloops@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jeffloops@gmail.com</a>&gt;<=
/span> wrote:<br><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left=
:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-s=
tyle:solid" class=3D"gmail_quote">
I have also opened a Mega account just for testing. It got slammed at first=
 but has started working pretty well now. 50 gigs is pretty good for free! =
Everything is encrypted to the point that if you lose your password you can=
 not get another!!! So take heed. They are talking about implementing a way=
 to do that in the future.<br>

<br>However...Mega is a new company from Kim Dot Com who you might remember=
 from Megaupload fame. The gov shut down Megaupload and is still trying to =
extradite him. Anti pirate groups and the gov I assume also really want Meg=
a shut down badly! So the point being don&#39;t count on this site being yo=
ur only backup. Just Google for more info on Mega.<br>

<br>eyes open,<br><br>Jeff<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br><br><=
div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 5:59 PM, Jim Goodin <span=
 dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jimgoodinmusic@gmail.com" target=3D"_bla=
nk">jimgoodinmusic@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-=
color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid" class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><div>Rick thanks for the heads up.=A0 Looks good, I signed=
 up.=A0 Wondering if it&#39;s a promotional that will dry up in 6 months bu=
t regardless it&#39;s a nice storage deal for now.</div>

<div>=A0</div><div>Jim<br><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote">
On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 5:32 PM, Rick Walker <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:looppool@cruzio.com" target=3D"_blank">looppool@cruzio.com</a>&g=
t;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-l=
eft:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-lef=
t-style:solid" class=3D"gmail_quote">


Last week a new free cloud storage site was launched in New Zealand that<br=
>
offers 50 gigs of storage for free. =A0 They got over a million customers<b=
r>
in a couple of days, apparently.<br>
<br>
They are called =A0MEGA =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0you can upload and downl=
oad to it and send out<br>
the download information to your friends if apropos.<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"https://mega.co.nz" target=3D"_blank">https://mega.co.nz</a><spa=
n><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
<br>
/R.<br>
<br><span><font color=3D"#888888">
</font></span></font></span></blockquote></div><span><font color=3D"#888888=
"><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div>-- </div><div><a href=3D"http://jim=
goodin.com" target=3D"_blank"><i>jimgoodin.com</i></a> - &#39;Acoustic guit=
ar renaissance, color blue, repetitive minimalism&#39;</div>


<div>=A0</div><div><a href=3D"http://woodandwiremusic.bandcamp.com" target=
=3D"_blank"><i>The Recordings of Wood and Wire Music</i></a>=A0- &#39;Organ=
ically inspired New Music&#39;</div><div>=A0</div><div><i><a href=3D"http:/=
/jimgoodinpeterthorn.bandcamp.com" target=3D"_blank">From Brooklyn To Glind=
ran</a></i>, a new World/Free Jazz recording by Jim Goodin &amp; Peter Th=
=F6rn.=A0 Proceeds from this CD will benefit <i><a href=3D"http://jdrf.org"=
 target=3D"_blank">JDRF International</a></i></div>


<div><br><i><a href=3D"http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tips-across-the-water=
s/id474128076?mt=3D8" target=3D"_blank">Tips Across the Waters</a></i>, a n=
ew app for iOS from James Goodin/Wood and Wire Ware.</div>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div>-- </d=
iv><div><a href=3D"http://jimgoodin.com" target=3D"_blank"><em>jimgoodin.co=
m</em></a> - &#39;Acoustic guitar renaissance, color blue, repetitive minim=
alism&#39;</div>
<div>=A0</div><div><a href=3D"http://woodandwiremusic.bandcamp.com" target=
=3D"_blank"><em>The Recordings of Wood and Wire Music</em></a>=A0- &#39;Org=
anically inspired New Music&#39;</div><div>=A0</div><div><em><a href=3D"htt=
p://jimgoodinpeterthorn.bandcamp.com" target=3D"_blank">From Brooklyn To Gl=
indran</a></em>, a new World/Free Jazz recording by Jim Goodin &amp; Peter =
Th=F6rn.=A0 Proceeds from this CD will benefit <em><a href=3D"http://jdrf.o=
rg" target=3D"_blank">JDRF International</a></em></div>
<div><br><em><a href=3D"http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tips-across-the-wate=
rs/id474128076?mt=3D8" target=3D"_blank">Tips Across the Waters</a></em>, a=
 new app for iOS from James Goodin/Wood and Wire Ware.</div>

--047d7b624ab8bd4b8704d46161be--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jan 29 00:24:46 2013
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Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 19:24:40 -0500
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com,
 richard sales <richard@glasswing.com>
From: Charles Zwicky <cazwicky@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: DATA BACKUP
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"He who controls the spice controls the world..."

At 2:32 PM -0800 1/28/13, Rick Walker wrote:
>Last week a new free cloud storage site was launched in New Zealand that
>offers 50 gigs of storage for free.   They got over a million customers
>in a couple of days, apparently.
>
>They are called  MEGA              you can upload and download to it 
>and send out
>the download information to your friends if apropos.
>
>https://mega.co.nz
>
>/R.


-- 

...
http://www.zmix.net

http://albumcredits.com/zmix

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Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 16:29:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Uccello <stevebassbird@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: Steve Uccello <stevebassbird@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Future LP-1 Production
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---1600601909-1896958557-1359419387=:66839
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=0A=0AI absolutely *love* my LP-1 but the one thing that freaks me out abou=
t it is that if I did need to get a new one it's not just quickly and easil=
y available to purchase. =A0If anyone is trying to organize a group buy def=
initely keep me "in the loop" ;) -thanks Steve Uccello=0A=0Awww.steveuccell=
o.com=0A
---1600601909-1896958557-1359419387=:66839
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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:ar=
ial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:14pt"><div><span><br></span></div><div=
><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"'times new roman', 'new york', ti=
mes, serif" size=3D"4"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size:=
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if" size=3D"6"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 19px;">=
I absolutely *love* my LP-1 but the one thing that freaks me out about it i=
s that if I did need to get a new one it's not just quickly and easily avai=
lable to purchase. &nbsp;If anyone is trying to organize a group buy defini=
tely keep me "in the loop" ;) -thanks Steve Uccello</span></font></span></f=
ont></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 19px; font-family: =
arial, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: no=
rmal; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"'times new roman', 'new yo=
rk', times, serif"
 size=3D"4"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 16px;"><fo=
nt class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif" size=3D=
"6"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 19px;"><br></span>=
</font></span></font></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 19=
px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: transparen=
t; font-style: normal; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"'times ne=
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pan" style=3D"font-size: 16px;"><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"ar=
ial, helvetica, sans-serif" size=3D"6"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" sty=
le=3D"font-size: 19px;">www.steveuccello.com</span></font></span></font></d=
iv><div style=3D"font-size: 14pt; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif=
; "><div style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new yor=
k', times, serif; "><br> </div> </div>  </div></body></html>
---1600601909-1896958557-1359419387=:66839--

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Yes, indeed.  I've sold out and its now all about hot chicks and the dance 
floor.  LOL

Check it.   www.cloudsplittermusic.com

We are still doing some looping too!  :-)

-----Original Message----- 
On 27 Jan 2013, at 19:57, Kris Hartung <krispen.hartung@gmail.com> wrote:

> I am playing EDM stuff,

What??? I wanna hear Kris!! 

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	<AD786A6B30BB4F0ABDCA80A5289E151E@americas.hpqcorp.net>
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 08:38:48 -0800
Message-ID: <CAATUM6dixVbFAON6U0=ejTBJVHi_07-wUiNP7OCJdgp_WYPOoA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: feedback issue with mics in live performance
From: Kevin Cheli-Colando <billowhead@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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Fun stuff there Kris.  I have to say, your musical interests are
certainly mercurial.

Kevin

On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 9:56 PM, Kris Hartung <krispen.hartung@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, indeed.  I've sold out and its now all about hot chicks and the dance
> floor.  LOL
>
> Check it.   www.cloudsplittermusic.com
>
> We are still doing some looping too!  :-)
>
>
> -----Original Message----- On 27 Jan 2013, at 19:57, Kris Hartung
> <krispen.hartung@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I am playing EDM stuff,
>
>
> What??? I wanna hear Kris!!



-- 
Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and to have a
form. That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all trouble.

- Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jan 29 19:09:44 2013
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From: "Michael Peters" <mp@mpeters.de>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Livelooping Workshops
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 20:09:35 +0100
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I could possibly do a livelooping workshop in a school (not sure which =
ages). I have never done this and no idea what to do. I knew that =
several people here have done such things before. What works and is fun =
and easy to do?
=20
-Michael
=20
=20

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class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>I could possibly do a <span =
class=3DSpellE>livelooping</span> workshop in a school (not sure which =
ages). I have never done this and no idea what to do. I knew that =
several people here have done such things before. What works and is fun =
and easy to do?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
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Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:DE;mso-no-proof:yes'>=
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y></html>
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jan 29 19:19:36 2013
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Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 20:19:35 +0100
Message-ID: <CAFjf2GAiKo3mePhS5AWu=7jdrx7eyyPLK3rZ5iJYpQijZ_POYw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Livelooping Workshops
From: Fabio_A <eterogenus@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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--f46d043c7c082cad2904d4724690
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I've done one on last summer with this program:

A) Theory:
    - story: the birth of the loop etc...
    - loop machines (from the old ones to the new ones)
    - video/audio examples of looping and loop machines (from Rilley to
frippertronics to looping software)

B) Practice:
    - Looper's main fuctions (undo, redo, multiply, feedback.....)
    - examples of fuctions and techniques (by playing)
    - perform a looping act live in front of your pupils...


-f



2013/1/29 Michael Peters <mp@mpeters.de>

> I could possibly do a livelooping workshop in a school (not sure which
> ages). I have never done this and no idea what to do. I knew that several
> people here have done such things before. What works and is fun and easy to
> do?****
>
> ** **
>
> -Michael****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>

--f46d043c7c082cad2904d4724690
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I&#39;ve done one on last summer with this program:<div><br></div><div>A) T=
heory:</div><div>=A0 =A0 - story: the birth of the loop etc...</div><div>=
=A0 =A0 - loop machines (from the old ones to the new ones)</div><div>=A0 =
=A0 - video/audio examples of looping and loop machines (from Rilley to fri=
ppertronics to looping software)</div>
<div><br></div><div>B) Practice:=A0<br>=A0 =A0 - Looper&#39;s main fuctions=
 (undo, redo, multiply, feedback.....)</div><div>=A0 =A0 - examples of fuct=
ions and techniques (by playing)</div><div>=A0 =A0 - perform a looping act =
live in front of your pupils...</div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>-f</div><div><br></div><div><br><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2013/1/29 Michael P=
eters <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mp@mpeters.de" target=3D"_bla=
nk">mp@mpeters.de</a>&gt;</span><br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"DE" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purp=
le"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I could possibly do a =
<span>livelooping</span> workshop in a school (not sure which ages). I have=
 never done this and no idea what to do. I knew that several people here ha=
ve done such things before. What works and is fun and easy to do?<span clas=
s=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><u></u><u></u></font></span></span></p=
>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span la=
ng=3D"EN-US">-Michael<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=A0<u></u></span></p></f=
ont></span></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

--f46d043c7c082cad2904d4724690--

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Subject: Re: Livelooping Workshops
From: Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com>
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Be sure to stress early on that there are two main approaches to using
livelooping: using the looper as a "smart recorder" vs using the
looper as an "instrument". These two are complementary techniques.
When forgetting to make this clear there may be a risk that some
people don't understand what you are telling because they simply lock
in with a different "thinking paradigm".

Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.perboysen.com
http://www.youtube.com/perboysen


On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 8:19 PM, Fabio_A <eterogenus@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've done one on last summer with this program:
>
> A) Theory:
>     - story: the birth of the loop etc...
>     - loop machines (from the old ones to the new ones)
>     - video/audio examples of looping and loop machines (from Rilley to
> frippertronics to looping software)
>
> B) Practice:
>     - Looper's main fuctions (undo, redo, multiply, feedback.....)
>     - examples of fuctions and techniques (by playing)
>     - perform a looping act live in front of your pupils...
>
>
> -f
>
>
>
> 2013/1/29 Michael Peters <mp@mpeters.de>
>>
>> I could possibly do a livelooping workshop in a school (not sure which
>> ages). I have never done this and no idea what to do. I knew that several
>> people here have done such things before. What works and is fun and easy to
>> do?
>>
>>
>>
>> -Michael
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jan 29 22:11:17 2013
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Subject: Audio Interface for Guitar+Mic
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 23:11:08 +0100
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I'm thinking of getting a slightly larger interface (I use a tiny Edirol =
2 cinch in-2 cinch out now), one that would let me plug in a microphone =
in addition to the guitar. My dealer recommended a Focusrite interface =
(http://global.focusrite.com/usb-audio-interfaces/scarlett-2i2) - I'm =
slightly confused though over this question: would I see two different =
inputs (guitar and mic) in my Bidule, so that I can route them in =
different ways?  -Michael

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vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'tab-interval:35.4pt'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>I'm thinking of getting a slightly =
larger interface (I use a tiny <span class=3DSpellE>Edirol</span> 2 =
cinch in-2 cinch out now), one that would let me plug in a microphone in =
addition to the guitar. My dealer recommended a Focusrite interface =
(http://global.focusrite.com/usb-audio-interfaces/scarlett-2i2) - I'm =
slightly confused though over this question: would I see two different =
inputs (guitar and <span class=3DSpellE>mic</span>) in my <span =
class=3DSpellE>Bidule</span>, so that I can route them in different =
ways?<span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0 =
</span>-Michael<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></body></html>
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References: <000301cdfe6d$8ab72080$a0256180$@de>
In-Reply-To: <000301cdfe6d$8ab72080$a0256180$@de>
Subject: Re: Audio Interface for Guitar+Mic
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 15:20:43 -0700
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That=E2=80=99s correct. Your software will detect the different inputs, =
or you=E2=80=99ll have to configure it to detect them.  This is how my =
RME Fireface 400 works, which I highly recommend given that it=E2=80=99s =
German!  LOL =20



I'm thinking of getting a slightly larger interface (I use a tiny Edirol =
2 cinch in-2 cinch out now), one that would let me plug in a microphone =
in addition to the guitar. My dealer recommended a Focusrite interface =
(http://global.focusrite.com/usb-audio-interfaces/scarlett-2i2) - I'm =
slightly confused though over this question: would I see two different =
inputs (guitar and mic) in my Bidule, so that I can route them in =
different ways?  -Michael

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<DIV style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV>That=E2=80=99s correct. Your software will detect the different =
inputs, or you=E2=80=99ll=20
have to configure it to detect them.&nbsp; This is how my RME Fireface =
400=20
works, which I highly recommend given that it=E2=80=99s German!&nbsp; =
LOL&nbsp; </DIV>
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<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"mso-ansi-language: en-us" =
lang=3DEN-US>I'm=20
thinking of getting a slightly larger interface (I use a tiny <SPAN=20
class=3DSpellE>Edirol</SPAN> 2 cinch in-2 cinch out now), one that would =
let me=20
plug in a microphone in addition to the guitar. My dealer recommended a=20
Focusrite interface=20
(http://global.focusrite.com/usb-audio-interfaces/scarlett-2i2) - I'm =
slightly=20
confused though over this question: would I see two different inputs =
(guitar and=20
<SPAN class=3DSpellE>mic</SPAN>) in my <SPAN =
class=3DSpellE>Bidule</SPAN>, so that I=20
can route them in different ways?<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: =
yes">&nbsp;=20
</SPAN>-Michael<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTM=
L>

------=_NextPart_000_025D_01CDFE34.343ADDC0--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jan 29 22:35:38 2013
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Subject: RE: Livelooping Workshops
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 23:35:31 +0100
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I thought of maybe doing something interactive, like, going around with =
a microphone and putting everyone's vocals or percussion into the loop =
...
-mpe
=20

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class=3DWordSection1><div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
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style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>I =
thought of maybe doing something interactive, like, going around with a =
microphone and putting everyone's vocals or percussion into the loop =
...<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
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class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></div=
></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_002B_01CDFE79.53FD0080--

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Subject: Re: Livelooping Workshops
From: Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com>
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On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:35 PM, Michael Peters <mp@mpeters.de> wrote:
> I thought of maybe doing something interactive, like, going around with a
> microphone and putting everyone's vocals or percussion into the loop ...


That seems like a fun thing to do! I use to gather the people sitting
on chairs in a circle around a mic that I have cabled into M=C3=B6bius. We
pass around the foot pedal to loop and people can add to each others
loop as layers or make a parallel loop if they like. I keep a big
screen with the M=C3=B6bius GUI so everyone can see exactly what loops are
running, how long they are etc.

Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.perboysen.com
http://www.youtube.com/perboysen

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Subject: Re: Audio Interface for Guitar+Mic
From: Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com>
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I've been setting up Bidule in many variation for multiple inputs. For
guitar + mic I cable the guitar input into some kind of "pre amp
plugin", a compressor or fuzz and after that into a audio switcher to
switch between several optional effect chains. The mic input I cable
first into a volume control (assigned to a physical expression pedal
so I can mute the bitch to prevent feedback and noise getting layered
into loops) and then I cable the mic line right into the audio
switcher so it uses the same effects as the guitar. This routing saves
a lot of CPU. With my previous mics I had to add an EQ right after the
input to boost treble and cut bass and low mid but with my recent TC
Helicon MP-70 I can run it without EQ (it colors the signal the same
way you want to EQ it anyway - not good in the studio, but very
convenient in a live setup).

Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.perboysen.com
http://www.youtube.com/perboysen


On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:11 PM, Michael Peters <mp@mpeters.de> wrote:
> I'm thinking of getting a slightly larger interface (I use a tiny Edirol 2
> cinch in-2 cinch out now), one that would let me plug in a microphone in
> addition to the guitar. My dealer recommended a Focusrite interface
> (http://global.focusrite.com/usb-audio-interfaces/scarlett-2i2) - I'm
> slightly confused though over this question: would I see two different
> inputs (guitar and mic) in my Bidule, so that I can route them in different
> ways?  -Michael

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I've done several workshops with young people who weren't musicians at all,=
 and the strategy depends of the time (one session,several...), the number =
(a little group or a class), the context. First, as fabio, I always do a qu=
ick but complete presentation of the history of looping with old videos, al=
so speak about the digital technology, about bruitism and random methods to=
o, and show them some videos of weird music to cause them a radical cogniti=
ve opening about what is possible to do with the music (I use some japanois=
e or strange electronic music, or pygmies, etc). Second, for a small group,=
 I prepare three or four loopers (I use a RC 20, a jamman, a RC 50 and a co=
mputer) with an acoustical installation for each one, usually an open tunin=
g guitar with objects (spoon, bottleneck...) and a distortion pedal, a mic =
with flutes, sanza, harmonica or whatever, a light drum kit and a keyboard.=
 All the loopers and instruments are organized in circle on the floor, and =
not synchronized. Third, they learn the functions of the loopers and practi=
se (and I use a lot the principle of empty loops). I love to observe who is=
 comfortable with which instrument (recently, I met a 12 years girl who rev=
ealed herself very pertinent on the prepared guitare and the looper, with a=
 very texturizing approach. A boy was, him, very attracted by the piano and=
 by repetitive music in major tune, so he worked on my computer with four s=
ynchronized loopers). After, for small groups, they can make improvisations=
 following this shema : the first begins an impro and has to loop on each w=
orstation, the second comes and must decrease the precedent impro to instal=
l his own, and so on. After three sessions of two hours of theory and pract=
ise, five chidren can create this music by their own  : https://soundcloud.=
com/lucidbrain-integrativeproject/the-electronical-teens-second (it's a cut=
 mix of a 25 minutes improvisation).
The most important I think with this loop installation is to obtain indepen=
dant soundfields (Rythm with the drum kit, rythm/harmony with the guitar, m=
elody with the keyboards and the flutes) they can manage intuitively. Instr=
uments are a necessity, most of the children are very shy with their voice.
With a school class, things are more difficult. You can do a demo, a collec=
tive improv but it isn't very interisting in my experience.=20
For a class of 25 pupils, I created once a video sampler. I filmed them mak=
ing sounds with their voice, put the video samples in Arkaos and the week a=
fter each of them improvised a few minutes with a keyboard and the projecti=
on of their faces in split screen. Some were absolutely fabulous on the key=
board manipulations and had never done that before.
Last thing, but more easy with adults, inspired by soundpainting : I did wo=
rkshop only with the voice, but I used people as looper, whispering  one to=
 one a melody or a sound they had to sing until I changed the sound.
Another method, but with adults, inspired by soundpainting : I did a choral=
 workshop using the singers as loopers, just whispering  to each singer a m=
elody or a sound in his ear he had to sing until I changed his sound. Very =
fun, we wrote a libretto around aphasia and prepared a public performance d=
uring two days.
Well, sorry to be extensive, I really love doing that, children are very fr=
esh with music, and I always dream to create some vocations and a future no=
isy glitch scene here, in the middle of nowhere.=20
well, the good way to do a workshop is I suppose to be intuitive, to immers=
e people quickly in creative  processes and to give them methods that autho=
rize them to manage their own discovery of music.
Anyway, just do it, workshops are always a good experience at least for the=
 teatcher.
Emmanuel.

----- Mail original -----
De: "Per Boysen" <perboysen@gmail.com>
=C3=80: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Envoy=C3=A9: Mercredi 30 Janvier 2013 01:07:02
Objet: Re: Livelooping Workshops

On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:35 PM, Michael Peters <mp@mpeters.de> wrote:
> I thought of maybe doing something interactive, like, going around with a
> microphone and putting everyone's vocals or percussion into the loop ...


That seems like a fun thing to do! I use to gather the people sitting
on chairs in a circle around a mic that I have cabled into M=C3=B6bius. We
pass around the foot pedal to loop and people can add to each others
loop as layers or make a parallel loop if they like. I keep a big
screen with the M=C3=B6bius GUI so everyone can see exactly what loops are
running, how long they are etc.

Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.perboysen.com
http://www.youtube.com/perboysen

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Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 19:05:50 -0800 (PST)
From: E Gross <slapbandjam@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: E Gross <slapbandjam@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: feedback issue with mics in live performance
To: "Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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--2053635335-1607036982-1359515150=:65471
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wow=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A>________________________________=0A> From: Kris Hartung =
<krispen.hartung@gmail.com>=0A>To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com =0A>=
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 12:56 AM=0A>Subject: Re: feedback issue wit=
h mics in live performance=0A> =0A>Yes, indeed.=A0 I've sold out and its no=
w all about hot chicks and the dance floor.=A0 LOL=0A>=0A>Check it.=A0 www.=
cloudsplittermusic.com=0A>=0A>We are still doing some looping too!=A0 :-)=
=0A>=0A>-----Original Message----- On 27 Jan 2013, at 19:57, Kris Hartung <=
krispen.hartung@gmail.com> wrote:=0A>=0A>> I am playing EDM stuff,=0A>=0A>W=
hat??? I wanna hear Kris!! =0A>=0A>=0A>
--2053635335-1607036982-1359515150=:65471
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:ti=
mes new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt">wow<div><span></span>=
</div><div><br><blockquote style=3D"border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255)=
; margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; padding-left: 5px;">  <div style=3D"fo=
nt-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div=
 style=3D"font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: =
12pt;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"> <hr size=3D"1"> =
 <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Kris Hartung &lt;kri=
spen.hartung@gmail.com&gt;<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:</s=
pan></b> Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com <br> <b><span style=3D"font-we=
ight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, January 29, 2013 12:56 AM<br> <b><sp=
an style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: feedback issue with=
 mics in live performance<br> </font> </div> <br>=0AYes, indeed.&nbsp; I've=
 sold out and its now all about hot chicks and the dance floor.&nbsp; LOL<b=
r><br>Check it.&nbsp;  <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.cloudsplitte=
rmusic.com/">www.cloudsplittermusic.com</a><br><br>We are still doing some =
looping too!&nbsp; :-)<br><br>-----Original Message----- On 27 Jan 2013, at=
 19:57, Kris Hartung &lt;<a ymailto=3D"mailto:krispen.hartung@gmail.com" hr=
ef=3D"mailto:krispen.hartung@gmail.com">krispen.hartung@gmail.com</a>&gt; w=
rote:<br><br>&gt; I am playing EDM stuff,<br><br>What??? I wanna hear Kris!=
! <br><br><br> </div> </div> </blockquote></div>   </div></body></html>
--2053635335-1607036982-1359515150=:65471--

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Subject: Re: Livelooping Workshops
From: Nilesh Trivedi <nilesh.tr@gmail.com>
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Very timely discussion. I too am going to conduct a workshop on live
looping at Goa (India) in March. My audience will be adults who may or may
not be musicians but all these ideas are nevertheless very useful.

In case anyone wants to know about this event, check this:
http://www.thegoaproject.com/

cheers
nilesh



On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 7:04 AM, <emmanuel.reveneau@free.fr> wrote:

> I've done several workshops with young people who weren't musicians at
> all, and the strategy depends of the time (one session,several...), the
> number (a little group or a class), the context. First, as fabio, I alway=
s
> do a quick but complete presentation of the history of looping with old
> videos, also speak about the digital technology, about bruitism and rando=
m
> methods too, and show them some videos of weird music to cause them a
> radical cognitive opening about what is possible to do with the music (I
> use some japanoise or strange electronic music, or pygmies, etc). Second,
> for a small group, I prepare three or four loopers (I use a RC 20, a
> jamman, a RC 50 and a computer) with an acoustical installation for each
> one, usually an open tuning guitar with objects (spoon, bottleneck...) an=
d
> a distortion pedal, a mic with flutes, sanza, harmonica or whatever, a
> light drum kit and a keyboard. All the loopers and instruments are
> organized in circle on the floor, and not synchronized. Third, they learn
> the functions of the loopers and practise (and I use a lot the principle =
of
> empty loops). I love to observe who is comfortable with which instrument
> (recently, I met a 12 years girl who revealed herself very pertinent on t=
he
> prepared guitare and the looper, with a very texturizing approach. A boy
> was, him, very attracted by the piano and by repetitive music in major
> tune, so he worked on my computer with four synchronized loopers). After,
> for small groups, they can make improvisations following this shema : the
> first begins an impro and has to loop on each worstation, the second come=
s
> and must decrease the precedent impro to install his own, and so on. Afte=
r
> three sessions of two hours of theory and practise, five chidren can crea=
te
> this music by their own  :
> https://soundcloud.com/lucidbrain-integrativeproject/the-electronical-tee=
ns-second(it's a cut mix of a 25 minutes improvisation).
> The most important I think with this loop installation is to obtain
> independant soundfields (Rythm with the drum kit, rythm/harmony with the
> guitar, melody with the keyboards and the flutes) they can manage
> intuitively. Instruments are a necessity, most of the children are very s=
hy
> with their voice.
> With a school class, things are more difficult. You can do a demo, a
> collective improv but it isn't very interisting in my experience.
> For a class of 25 pupils, I created once a video sampler. I filmed them
> making sounds with their voice, put the video samples in Arkaos and the
> week after each of them improvised a few minutes with a keyboard and the
> projection of their faces in split screen. Some were absolutely fabulous =
on
> the keyboard manipulations and had never done that before.
> Last thing, but more easy with adults, inspired by soundpainting : I did
> workshop only with the voice, but I used people as looper, whispering  on=
e
> to one a melody or a sound they had to sing until I changed the sound.
> Another method, but with adults, inspired by soundpainting : I did a
> choral workshop using the singers as loopers, just whispering  to each
> singer a melody or a sound in his ear he had to sing until I changed his
> sound. Very fun, we wrote a libretto around aphasia and prepared a public
> performance during two days.
> Well, sorry to be extensive, I really love doing that, children are very
> fresh with music, and I always dream to create some vocations and a futur=
e
> noisy glitch scene here, in the middle of nowhere.
> well, the good way to do a workshop is I suppose to be intuitive, to
> immerse people quickly in creative  processes and to give them methods th=
at
> authorize them to manage their own discovery of music.
> Anyway, just do it, workshops are always a good experience at least for
> the teatcher.
> Emmanuel.
>
> ----- Mail original -----
> De: "Per Boysen" <perboysen@gmail.com>
> =C0: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Envoy=E9: Mercredi 30 Janvier 2013 01:07:02
> Objet: Re: Livelooping Workshops
>
> On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:35 PM, Michael Peters <mp@mpeters.de> wrote:
> > I thought of maybe doing something interactive, like, going around with=
 a
> > microphone and putting everyone's vocals or percussion into the loop ..=
.
>
>
> That seems like a fun thing to do! I use to gather the people sitting
> on chairs in a circle around a mic that I have cabled into M=F6bius. We
> pass around the foot pedal to loop and people can add to each others
> loop as layers or make a parallel loop if they like. I keep a big
> screen with the M=F6bius GUI so everyone can see exactly what loops are
> running, how long they are etc.
>
> Greetings from Sweden
>
> Per Boysen
> www.perboysen.com
> http://www.youtube.com/perboysen
>
>

--bcaec554d658e3d3e604d479cc25
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div>Very timely discussion. I too am going to c=
onduct a workshop on live looping at Goa (India) in March. My audience will=
 be adults who may or may not be musicians but all these ideas are neverthe=
less very useful.<br>
<br></div>In case anyone wants to know about this event, check this: <a hre=
f=3D"http://www.thegoaproject.com/">http://www.thegoaproject.com/</a><br><b=
r></div>cheers<br></div>nilesh<br><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 7:04 AM,  <span dir=
=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:emmanuel.reveneau@free.fr" target=3D"_blank"=
>emmanuel.reveneau@free.fr</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gm=
ail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-le=
ft:1ex">
I&#39;ve done several workshops with young people who weren&#39;t musicians=
 at all, and the strategy depends of the time (one session,several...), the=
 number (a little group or a class), the context. First, as fabio, I always=
 do a quick but complete presentation of the history of looping with old vi=
deos, also speak about the digital technology, about bruitism and random me=
thods too, and show them some videos of weird music to cause them a radical=
 cognitive opening about what is possible to do with the music (I use some =
japanoise or strange electronic music, or pygmies, etc). Second, for a smal=
l group, I prepare three or four loopers (I use a RC 20, a jamman, a RC 50 =
and a computer) with an acoustical installation for each one, usually an op=
en tuning guitar with objects (spoon, bottleneck...) and a distortion pedal=
, a mic with flutes, sanza, harmonica or whatever, a light drum kit and a k=
eyboard. All the loopers and instruments are organized in circle on the flo=
or, and not synchronized. Third, they learn the functions of the loopers an=
d practise (and I use a lot the principle of empty loops). I love to observ=
e who is comfortable with which instrument (recently, I met a 12 years girl=
 who revealed herself very pertinent on the prepared guitare and the looper=
, with a very texturizing approach. A boy was, him, very attracted by the p=
iano and by repetitive music in major tune, so he worked on my computer wit=
h four synchronized loopers). After, for small groups, they can make improv=
isations following this shema : the first begins an impro and has to loop o=
n each worstation, the second comes and must decrease the precedent impro t=
o install his own, and so on. After three sessions of two hours of theory a=
nd practise, five chidren can create this music by their own =A0: <a href=
=3D"https://soundcloud.com/lucidbrain-integrativeproject/the-electronical-t=
eens-second" target=3D"_blank">https://soundcloud.com/lucidbrain-integrativ=
eproject/the-electronical-teens-second</a> (it&#39;s a cut mix of a 25 minu=
tes improvisation).<br>

The most important I think with this loop installation is to obtain indepen=
dant soundfields (Rythm with the drum kit, rythm/harmony with the guitar, m=
elody with the keyboards and the flutes) they can manage intuitively. Instr=
uments are a necessity, most of the children are very shy with their voice.=
<br>

With a school class, things are more difficult. You can do a demo, a collec=
tive improv but it isn&#39;t very interisting in my experience.<br>
For a class of 25 pupils, I created once a video sampler. I filmed them mak=
ing sounds with their voice, put the video samples in Arkaos and the week a=
fter each of them improvised a few minutes with a keyboard and the projecti=
on of their faces in split screen. Some were absolutely fabulous on the key=
board manipulations and had never done that before.<br>

Last thing, but more easy with adults, inspired by soundpainting : I did wo=
rkshop only with the voice, but I used people as looper, whispering =A0one =
to one a melody or a sound they had to sing until I changed the sound.<br>

Another method, but with adults, inspired by soundpainting : I did a choral=
 workshop using the singers as loopers, just whispering =A0to each singer a=
 melody or a sound in his ear he had to sing until I changed his sound. Ver=
y fun, we wrote a libretto around aphasia and prepared a public performance=
 during two days.<br>

Well, sorry to be extensive, I really love doing that, children are very fr=
esh with music, and I always dream to create some vocations and a future no=
isy glitch scene here, in the middle of nowhere.<br>
well, the good way to do a workshop is I suppose to be intuitive, to immers=
e people quickly in creative =A0processes and to give them methods that aut=
horize them to manage their own discovery of music.<br>
Anyway, just do it, workshops are always a good experience at least for the=
 teatcher.<br>
Emmanuel.<br>
<br>
----- Mail original -----<br>
De: &quot;Per Boysen&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:perboysen@gmail.com">perbo=
ysen@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
=C0: <a href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight=
@loopers-delight.com</a><br>
Envoy=E9: Mercredi 30 Janvier 2013 01:07:02<br>
Objet: Re: Livelooping Workshops<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:35 PM, Michael Peters &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mp@m=
peters.de">mp@mpeters.de</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; I thought of maybe doing something interactive, like, going around wit=
h a<br>
&gt; microphone and putting everyone&#39;s vocals or percussion into the lo=
op ...<br>
<br>
<br>
That seems like a fun thing to do! I use to gather the people sitting<br>
on chairs in a circle around a mic that I have cabled into M=F6bius. We<br>
pass around the foot pedal to loop and people can add to each others<br>
loop as layers or make a parallel loop if they like. I keep a big<br>
screen with the M=F6bius GUI so everyone can see exactly what loops are<br>
running, how long they are etc.<br>
<br>
Greetings from Sweden<br>
<br>
Per Boysen<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.perboysen.com" target=3D"_blank">www.perboysen.com</a=
><br>
<a href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/perboysen" target=3D"_blank">http://www.y=
outube.com/perboysen</a><br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

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http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/29/business/media/streaming-shakes-up-music-industrys-model-for-royalties.html?ref=us
-- 
-- Emile

If you can walk, you can surely DANCE

My photography can be viewed at 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/22231918@N06/collections/72157603627170351/

My videos can be viewed at http://www.youtube.com/Tobenfeld



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This looks amazing Nilesh, congrats at being a part if this cool event. I
have never been to India, but I have always been drawn to what I have heard
about Goa, and Im not talking about the Trance music and drugs!
I wish my life was such that I could be contribute to something like this,
but you know... day job, bills, kids... etc

Ok... maybe Im just having a "bad snow day"! (Got the car stuck in snow
today!!)

Regards from Oslo, Norway!

Mark

Sent from my (advertisement removed)

On 30 Jan 2013, at 05:18, Nilesh Trivedi <nilesh.tr@gmail.com> wrote:

Very timely discussion. I too am going to conduct a workshop on live
looping at Goa (India) in March. My audience will be adults who may or may
not be musicians but all these ideas are nevertheless very useful.

In case anyone wants to know about this event, check this:
http://www.thegoaproject.com/

cheers
nilesh



On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 7:04 AM, <emmanuel.reveneau@free.fr> wrote:

> I've done several workshops with young people who weren't musicians at
> all, and the strategy depends of the time (one session,several...), the
> number (a little group or a class), the context. First, as fabio, I alway=
s
> do a quick but complete presentation of the history of looping with old
> videos, also speak about the digital technology, about bruitism and rando=
m
> methods too, and show them some videos of weird music to cause them a
> radical cognitive opening about what is possible to do with the music (I
> use some japanoise or strange electronic music, or pygmies, etc). Second,
> for a small group, I prepare three or four loopers (I use a RC 20, a
> jamman, a RC 50 and a computer) with an acoustical installation for each
> one, usually an open tuning guitar with objects (spoon, bottleneck...) an=
d
> a distortion pedal, a mic with flutes, sanza, harmonica or whatever, a
> light drum kit and a keyboard. All the loopers and instruments are
> organized in circle on the floor, and not synchronized. Third, they learn
> the functions of the loopers and practise (and I use a lot the principle =
of
> empty loops). I love to observe who is comfortable with which instrument
> (recently, I met a 12 years girl who revealed herself very pertinent on t=
he
> prepared guitare and the looper, with a very texturizing approach. A boy
> was, him, very attracted by the piano and by repetitive music in major
> tune, so he worked on my computer with four synchronized loopers). After,
> for small groups, they can make improvisations following this shema : the
> first begins an impro and has to loop on each worstation, the second come=
s
> and must decrease the precedent impro to install his own, and so on. Afte=
r
> three sessions of two hours of theory and practise, five chidren can crea=
te
> this music by their own  :
> https://soundcloud.com/lucidbrain-integrativeproject/the-electronical-tee=
ns-second(it's a cut mix of a 25 minutes improvisation).
> The most important I think with this loop installation is to obtain
> independant soundfields (Rythm with the drum kit, rythm/harmony with the
> guitar, melody with the keyboards and the flutes) they can manage
> intuitively. Instruments are a necessity, most of the children are very s=
hy
> with their voice.
> With a school class, things are more difficult. You can do a demo, a
> collective improv but it isn't very interisting in my experience.
> For a class of 25 pupils, I created once a video sampler. I filmed them
> making sounds with their voice, put the video samples in Arkaos and the
> week after each of them improvised a few minutes with a keyboard and the
> projection of their faces in split screen. Some were absolutely fabulous =
on
> the keyboard manipulations and had never done that before.
> Last thing, but more easy with adults, inspired by soundpainting : I did
> workshop only with the voice, but I used people as looper, whispering  on=
e
> to one a melody or a sound they had to sing until I changed the sound.
> Another method, but with adults, inspired by soundpainting : I did a
> choral workshop using the singers as loopers, just whispering  to each
> singer a melody or a sound in his ear he had to sing until I changed his
> sound. Very fun, we wrote a libretto around aphasia and prepared a public
> performance during two days.
> Well, sorry to be extensive, I really love doing that, children are very
> fresh with music, and I always dream to create some vocations and a futur=
e
> noisy glitch scene here, in the middle of nowhere.
> well, the good way to do a workshop is I suppose to be intuitive, to
> immerse people quickly in creative  processes and to give them methods th=
at
> authorize them to manage their own discovery of music.
> Anyway, just do it, workshops are always a good experience at least for
> the teatcher.
> Emmanuel.
>
> ----- Mail original -----
> De: "Per Boysen" <perboysen@gmail.com>
> =C0: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Envoy=E9: Mercredi 30 Janvier 2013 01:07:02
> Objet: Re: Livelooping Workshops
>
> On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:35 PM, Michael Peters <mp@mpeters.de> wrote:
> > I thought of maybe doing something interactive, like, going around with=
 a
> > microphone and putting everyone's vocals or percussion into the loop ..=
.
>
>
> That seems like a fun thing to do! I use to gather the people sitting
> on chairs in a circle around a mic that I have cabled into M=F6bius. We
> pass around the foot pedal to loop and people can add to each others
> loop as layers or make a parallel loop if they like. I keep a big
> screen with the M=F6bius GUI so everyone can see exactly what loops are
> running, how long they are etc.
>
> Greetings from Sweden
>
> Per Boysen
> www.perboysen.com
> http://www.youtube.com/perboysen
>
>

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Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=
=3Dutf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div>This looks amazing Nilesh, congrat=
s at being a part if this cool event. I have never been to India, but I hav=
e always been drawn to what I have heard about Goa, and Im not talking abou=
t the Trance music and drugs!</div>
<div>I wish my life was such that I could be contribute to something like t=
his, but you know... day job, bills, kids... etc</div><div><br></div><div>O=
k... maybe Im just having a &quot;bad snow day&quot;! (Got the car stuck in=
 snow today!!)</div>
<div><br></div><div>Regards from Oslo, Norway!</div><div><br></div><div>Mar=
k</div><div><br>Sent from my (advertisement removed)</div><div><br>On 30 Ja=
n 2013, at 05:18, Nilesh Trivedi &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:nilesh.tr@gmail.com"=
>nilesh.tr@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div>Ve=
ry timely discussion. I too am going to conduct a workshop on live looping =
at Goa (India) in March. My audience will be adults who may or may not be m=
usicians but all these ideas are nevertheless very useful.<br>

<br></div>In case anyone wants to know about this event, check this: <a hre=
f=3D"http://www.thegoaproject.com/">http://www.thegoaproject.com/</a><br><b=
r></div>cheers<br></div>nilesh<br><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>

<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 7:04 AM,  <span dir=
=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:emmanuel.reveneau@free.fr" target=3D"_blank"=
>emmanuel.reveneau@free.fr</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gm=
ail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-le=
ft:1ex">

I&#39;ve done several workshops with young people who weren&#39;t musicians=
 at all, and the strategy depends of the time (one session,several...), the=
 number (a little group or a class), the context. First, as fabio, I always=
 do a quick but complete presentation of the history of looping with old vi=
deos, also speak about the digital technology, about bruitism and random me=
thods too, and show them some videos of weird music to cause them a radical=
 cognitive opening about what is possible to do with the music (I use some =
japanoise or strange electronic music, or pygmies, etc). Second, for a smal=
l group, I prepare three or four loopers (I use a RC 20, a jamman, a RC 50 =
and a computer) with an acoustical installation for each one, usually an op=
en tuning guitar with objects (spoon, bottleneck...) and a distortion pedal=
, a mic with flutes, sanza, harmonica or whatever, a light drum kit and a k=
eyboard. All the loopers and instruments are organized in circle on the flo=
or, and not synchronized. Third, they learn the functions of the loopers an=
d practise (and I use a lot the principle of empty loops). I love to observ=
e who is comfortable with which instrument (recently, I met a 12 years girl=
 who revealed herself very pertinent on the prepared guitare and the looper=
, with a very texturizing approach. A boy was, him, very attracted by the p=
iano and by repetitive music in major tune, so he worked on my computer wit=
h four synchronized loopers). After, for small groups, they can make improv=
isations following this shema : the first begins an impro and has to loop o=
n each worstation, the second comes and must decrease the precedent impro t=
o install his own, and so on. After three sessions of two hours of theory a=
nd practise, five chidren can create this music by their own =A0: <a href=
=3D"https://soundcloud.com/lucidbrain-integrativeproject/the-electronical-t=
eens-second" target=3D"_blank">https://soundcloud.com/lucidbrain-integrativ=
eproject/the-electronical-teens-second</a> (it&#39;s a cut mix of a 25 minu=
tes improvisation).<br>


The most important I think with this loop installation is to obtain indepen=
dant soundfields (Rythm with the drum kit, rythm/harmony with the guitar, m=
elody with the keyboards and the flutes) they can manage intuitively. Instr=
uments are a necessity, most of the children are very shy with their voice.=
<br>


With a school class, things are more difficult. You can do a demo, a collec=
tive improv but it isn&#39;t very interisting in my experience.<br>
For a class of 25 pupils, I created once a video sampler. I filmed them mak=
ing sounds with their voice, put the video samples in Arkaos and the week a=
fter each of them improvised a few minutes with a keyboard and the projecti=
on of their faces in split screen. Some were absolutely fabulous on the key=
board manipulations and had never done that before.<br>


Last thing, but more easy with adults, inspired by soundpainting : I did wo=
rkshop only with the voice, but I used people as looper, whispering =A0one =
to one a melody or a sound they had to sing until I changed the sound.<br>


Another method, but with adults, inspired by soundpainting : I did a choral=
 workshop using the singers as loopers, just whispering =A0to each singer a=
 melody or a sound in his ear he had to sing until I changed his sound. Ver=
y fun, we wrote a libretto around aphasia and prepared a public performance=
 during two days.<br>


Well, sorry to be extensive, I really love doing that, children are very fr=
esh with music, and I always dream to create some vocations and a future no=
isy glitch scene here, in the middle of nowhere.<br>
well, the good way to do a workshop is I suppose to be intuitive, to immers=
e people quickly in creative =A0processes and to give them methods that aut=
horize them to manage their own discovery of music.<br>
Anyway, just do it, workshops are always a good experience at least for the=
 teatcher.<br>
Emmanuel.<br>
<br>
----- Mail original -----<br>
De: &quot;Per Boysen&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:perboysen@gmail.com">perbo=
ysen@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
=C0: <a href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight=
@loopers-delight.com</a><br>
Envoy=E9: Mercredi 30 Janvier 2013 01:07:02<br>
Objet: Re: Livelooping Workshops<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:35 PM, Michael Peters &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mp@m=
peters.de">mp@mpeters.de</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; I thought of maybe doing something interactive, like, going around wit=
h a<br>
&gt; microphone and putting everyone&#39;s vocals or percussion into the lo=
op ...<br>
<br>
<br>
That seems like a fun thing to do! I use to gather the people sitting<br>
on chairs in a circle around a mic that I have cabled into M=F6bius. We<br>
pass around the foot pedal to loop and people can add to each others<br>
loop as layers or make a parallel loop if they like. I keep a big<br>
screen with the M=F6bius GUI so everyone can see exactly what loops are<br>
running, how long they are etc.<br>
<br>
Greetings from Sweden<br>
<br>
Per Boysen<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.perboysen.com" target=3D"_blank">www.perboysen.com</a=
><br>
<a href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/perboysen" target=3D"_blank">http://www.y=
outube.com/perboysen</a><br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></blockquote></body></html>

--f46d042de595ed02f704d47d0c32--

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Subject: Re: Zoe Keating in NY Times article.@borisfx.com
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On 1/29/2013 9:39 PM, Emile Tobenfeld (a.k.a Dr. T) wrote:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/29/business/media/streaming-shakes-up-music-industrys-model-for-royalties.html?ref=us 
>
>
>
> *This is one of the most depressing articles I've read in a long time.**
> **
> **Does anyone remember when Colonel Tom Parker was revealed to have 
> cut a deal with Elvis Presley **
> *
*so that he would receive a usurious 50% of ALL money that Elvis made?**
**
**It was unprecedented and the rest of the music business, artists and 
the public recoiled heavily from the news (though cynics always pointed **
**out that 50% of $40 million dollars was still vastly better than 0% of 
nothing).**
**
**Well folks,   iTunes,  one of the greatest rapists of musical 
artistry, in the world charges 50% of ALL DOWNLOAD SALES.**
**
**And they are the good guys compared to Pandora and Spotify, whose 
statistics make iTunes look like positive artistic **
**philanthropists.**

A new paradigm of selling digital content online needs to assert 
itself.   One that is fair to artists and all the energy
and time and money they spend trying to create art for people.

There are rumors of this coming.    I can't wait.

Rick Walker
Fuck iTunes!    Fuck Spotify!     Fuck Pandora!
Fuck the dominant paradigm that says that downloading other people's 
music is okay as long as you get away with it.
Theft if Theft, Folks!
*

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jan 30 13:43:45 2013
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Unable to read this email, please upgrage your mail client

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Why=20would=20you=20call=20Itunes=20a=20rapist?=20I=20don't=20remember=20an=
=20artist=20being=20treated=20unfairly=20by=20it.=20
Free=20mp3=20sites?=20Maybe!=20But=20Itunes?=20No!
Tyler=20Z
On=20Wed,=2030=20Jan=202013=2004:32:52=20-0800,=20Rick=20Walker=20wrote:


>On=201/29/2013=209:39=20PM,=20Emile=20Tobenfeld=20(a.k.a=20Dr.=20T)=20wrot=
e:
>>http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/29/business/media/streaming-shakes-up-musi=
c-industrys-model-for-royalties.html?ref=3Dus=20
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>*This=20is=20one=20of=20the=20most=20depressing=20articles=20I've=20read=
=20in=20a=20long=20time.**
>>**
>>**Does=20anyone=20remember=20when=20Colonel=20Tom=20Parker=20was=20reveal=
ed=20to=20have=20
>>cut=20a=20deal=20with=20Elvis=20Presley=20**
>>*
>*so=20that=20he=20would=20receive=20a=20usurious=2050%=20of=20ALL=20money=
=20that=20Elvis=20made?**
>**
>**It=20was=20unprecedented=20and=20the=20rest=20of=20the=20music=20busines=
s,=20artists=20and=20
>the=20public=20recoiled=20heavily=20from=20the=20news=20(though=20cynics=
=20always=20pointed=20**
>**out=20that=2050%=20of=20$40=20million=20dollars=20was=20still=20vastly=
=20better=20than=200%=20of=20
>nothing).**
>**
>**Well=20folks,=20=20=20iTunes,=20=20one=20of=20the=20greatest=20rapists=
=20of=20musical=20
>artistry,=20in=20the=20world=20charges=2050%=20of=20ALL=20DOWNLOAD=20SALES=
.**
>**
>**And=20they=20are=20the=20good=20guys=20compared=20to=20Pandora=20and=20S=
potify,=20whose=20
>statistics=20make=20iTunes=20look=20like=20positive=20artistic=20**
>**philanthropists.**
>
>A=20new=20paradigm=20of=20selling=20digital=20content=20online=20needs=20t=
o=20assert=20
>itself.=20=20=20One=20that=20is=20fair=20to=20artists=20and=20all=20the=20=
energy
>and=20time=20and=20money=20they=20spend=20trying=20to=20create=20art=20for=
=20people.
>
>There=20are=20rumors=20of=20this=20coming.=20=20=20=20I=20can't=20wait.
>
>Rick=20Walker
>Fuck=20iTunes!=20=20=20=20Fuck=20Spotify!=20=20=20=20=20Fuck=20Pandora!
>Fuck=20the=20dominant=20paradigm=20that=20says=20that=20downloading=20othe=
r=20people's=20
>music=20is=20okay=20as=20long=20as=20you=20get=20away=20with=20it.
>Theft=20if=20Theft,=20Folks!
>*

--===============0047602129==--

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Subject: Fwd: Zoe Keating in NY Times article.@borisfx.com
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My guess is that "the new paradigm" is not happening to digital sales
of music but rather to cultural norms and and people's ways of
relating to music. We can already see the change: fewer people value
to own music like old days "collectors" did. One is not motivated to
pay for music just because it is music. However, the much older role
for music in the society, when music serves a specific purpose, is
still being regarded as something worth to pay for. Like if you go out
to dance you aren't bothered paying for an entrance ticked, or if
going to a concert. An even more obvious example is the rapidly
growing media that uses music for a very specific purpose - films,
games, presentations - everyone today agrees to pay for this and music
goes with the package. I think that we are repelling back to where it
has been for most of mankind's history; music mostly exists for a
specific purpose, to play a role in a specific context. The period
where music was just one consumable product among others on a market
is about to end.

Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.perboysen.com
http://www.youtube.com/perboysen


On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 2:35 PM, Tyler <programmer651@comcast.net> wrote:
> Why would you call Itunes a rapist? I don't remember an artist being treated unfairly by it.
> Free mp3 sites? Maybe! But Itunes? No!
> Tyler Z
> On Wed, 30 Jan 2013 04:32:52 -0800, Rick Walker wrote:
>
>
>>On 1/29/2013 9:39 PM, Emile Tobenfeld (a.k.a Dr. T) wrote:
>>>http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/29/business/media/streaming-shakes-up-music-industrys-model-for-royalties.html?ref=us
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>*This is one of the most depressing articles I've read in a long time.**
>>>**
>>>**Does anyone remember when Colonel Tom Parker was revealed to have
>>>cut a deal with Elvis Presley **
>>>*
>>*so that he would receive a usurious 50% of ALL money that Elvis made?**
>>**
>>**It was unprecedented and the rest of the music business, artists and
>>the public recoiled heavily from the news (though cynics always pointed **
>>**out that 50% of $40 million dollars was still vastly better than 0% of
>>nothing).**
>>**
>>**Well folks,   iTunes,  one of the greatest rapists of musical
>>artistry, in the world charges 50% of ALL DOWNLOAD SALES.**
>>**
>>**And they are the good guys compared to Pandora and Spotify, whose
>>statistics make iTunes look like positive artistic **
>>**philanthropists.**
>>
>>A new paradigm of selling digital content online needs to assert
>>itself.   One that is fair to artists and all the energy
>>and time and money they spend trying to create art for people.
>>
>>There are rumors of this coming.    I can't wait.
>>
>>Rick Walker
>>Fuck iTunes!    Fuck Spotify!     Fuck Pandora!
>>Fuck the dominant paradigm that says that downloading other people's
>>music is okay as long as you get away with it.
>>Theft if Theft, Folks!
>>*

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jan 30 15:09:29 2013
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Even using Pandora is a bad joke.  You can select for example the "Brian Eno 
Channel" and expect to hear nothing but the work of the Domed One, but no! 
Very badly organized, you're as likely to hear Vangelis and Manheim 
Steamroller, for Chrissakes.  They just don't get it.  STILL!  It's 
therefore evident that denizens of the music industry have infested these 
companies otherwise they'd be doing something with their systems besides 
generating income for themselves.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Rick Walker
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 7:32 AM
To: LOOPERS DELIGHT (posting)
Subject: Re: Zoe Keating in NY Times article.@borisfx.com

On 1/29/2013 9:39 PM, Emile Tobenfeld (a.k.a Dr. T) wrote:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/29/business/media/streaming-shakes-up-music-industrys-model-for-royalties.html?ref=us
>
>
> *This is one of the most depressing articles I've read in a long time.**
> **
> **Does anyone remember when Colonel Tom Parker was revealed to have cut a 
> deal with Elvis Presley **
> *
*so that he would receive a usurious 50% of ALL money that Elvis made?**
**
**It was unprecedented and the rest of the music business, artists and
the public recoiled heavily from the news (though cynics always pointed **
**out that 50% of $40 million dollars was still vastly better than 0% of
nothing).**
**
**Well folks,   iTunes,  one of the greatest rapists of musical
artistry, in the world charges 50% of ALL DOWNLOAD SALES.**
**
**And they are the good guys compared to Pandora and Spotify, whose
statistics make iTunes look like positive artistic **
**philanthropists.**

A new paradigm of selling digital content online needs to assert
itself.   One that is fair to artists and all the energy
and time and money they spend trying to create art for people.

There are rumors of this coming.    I can't wait.

Rick Walker
Fuck iTunes!    Fuck Spotify!     Fuck Pandora!
Fuck the dominant paradigm that says that downloading other people's
music is okay as long as you get away with it.
Theft if Theft, Folks!
* 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jan 30 15:16:28 2013
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--f46d042f973282092504d482fe4f
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

@Tyler, its us old folks who used to earn a wage from
being moderately successful musicians that are moaning about its is now
compared to how it used to be. The big difference between then and now is
that the companies selling you music (im not talking about torrents or
pirate mp3s, thats piracy, and has always been there, remember bootleg
tapes?) are paying the artists infinitesimal amounts compared to what they
used to. It doesnt make any sense to me that now, there are no
manufacturing costs, and all marketing is vis the net, social media etc,
there IS no CDs or Vinyl albums to pay for, there are no posters flyers or
adverts to design and print, its all online. (I will concede that the big
site probably spend millions on site development). An thats it,
As Per says, the shift HAS changed, there no going back to the old days,
downloads and streaming are here to stay, you might as well get used to
it... BUT, and its a fucking HUGE BUTT...
THERE NO REASON MUSICIANS SHOULD STAND UP FOR THIER RIGHTS!!!

The record companies before, at least came from a standpoint of loving
music, now the music business is being strangled by the distributors
(Apple, Spotify etc) Its of course ther own fault for not jumping in quick
and building their own online music services, and spent too much time
stamping on Napster instead... Now the CEO of Napster is a Board member of
Spotify and hes considered a legit businessman... Go figure!

That is all..

Mark


On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com> wrote:

> My guess is that "the new paradigm" is not happening to digital sales
> of music but rather to cultural norms and and people's ways of
> relating to music. We can already see the change: fewer people value
> to own music like old days "collectors" did. One is not motivated to
> pay for music just because it is music. However, the much older role
> for music in the society, when music serves a specific purpose, is
> still being regarded as something worth to pay for. Like if you go out
> to dance you aren't bothered paying for an entrance ticked, or if
> going to a concert. An even more obvious example is the rapidly
> growing media that uses music for a very specific purpose - films,
> games, presentations - everyone today agrees to pay for this and music
> goes with the package. I think that we are repelling back to where it
> has been for most of mankind's history; music mostly exists for a
> specific purpose, to play a role in a specific context. The period
> where music was just one consumable product among others on a market
> is about to end.
>
> Greetings from Sweden
>
> Per Boysen
> www.perboysen.com
> http://www.youtube.com/perboysen
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 2:35 PM, Tyler <programmer651@comcast.net> wrote:
> > Why would you call Itunes a rapist? I don't remember an artist being
> treated unfairly by it.
> > Free mp3 sites? Maybe! But Itunes? No!
> > Tyler Z
> > On Wed, 30 Jan 2013 04:32:52 -0800, Rick Walker wrote:
> >
> >
> >>On 1/29/2013 9:39 PM, Emile Tobenfeld (a.k.a Dr. T) wrote:
> >>>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/29/business/media/streaming-shakes-up-music-industrys-model-for-royalties.html?ref=us
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>*This is one of the most depressing articles I've read in a long time.**
> >>>**
> >>>**Does anyone remember when Colonel Tom Parker was revealed to have
> >>>cut a deal with Elvis Presley **
> >>>*
> >>*so that he would receive a usurious 50% of ALL money that Elvis made?**
> >>**
> >>**It was unprecedented and the rest of the music business, artists and
> >>the public recoiled heavily from the news (though cynics always pointed
> **
> >>**out that 50% of $40 million dollars was still vastly better than 0% of
> >>nothing).**
> >>**
> >>**Well folks,   iTunes,  one of the greatest rapists of musical
> >>artistry, in the world charges 50% of ALL DOWNLOAD SALES.**
> >>**
> >>**And they are the good guys compared to Pandora and Spotify, whose
> >>statistics make iTunes look like positive artistic **
> >>**philanthropists.**
> >>
> >>A new paradigm of selling digital content online needs to assert
> >>itself.   One that is fair to artists and all the energy
> >>and time and money they spend trying to create art for people.
> >>
> >>There are rumors of this coming.    I can't wait.
> >>
> >>Rick Walker
> >>Fuck iTunes!    Fuck Spotify!     Fuck Pandora!
> >>Fuck the dominant paradigm that says that downloading other people's
> >>music is okay as long as you get away with it.
> >>Theft if Theft, Folks!
> >>*
>
>


-- 
*Mark Francombe*
www.markfrancombe.com
www.ordoabkhao.com
http://vimeo.com/user825094
http://www.looop.no
twitter @markfrancombe
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/

--f46d042f973282092504d482fe4f
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">@Tyler, its us old folks who used to earn a wage from bein=
g=A0moderately=A0successful musicians that are moaning about its is now com=
pared to how it used to be. The big difference=A0between=A0then and now is =
that the companies selling you music (im not talking about torrents or pira=
te mp3s, thats piracy, and has always been there, remember bootleg tapes?) =
are paying the artists=A0infinitesimal=A0amounts compared to what they used=
 to. It doesnt make any sense to me that now, there are no manufacturing co=
sts, and all marketing is vis the net, social media etc, there IS no CDs or=
 Vinyl albums to pay for, there are no posters flyers or adverts to design =
and print, its all online. (I will concede that the big site probably spend=
 millions on site development). An thats it,=A0<div style>

As Per says, the shift HAS changed, there no going back to the old days, do=
wnloads and streaming are here to stay, you might as well get used to it...=
 BUT, and its a fucking HUGE BUTT...=A0<br>THERE NO REASON=A0MUSICIANS=A0SH=
OULD STAND UP FOR THIER RIGHTS!!!<br>

<br>The record companies before, at least came from a standpoint of loving =
music, now the music business is being strangled by the distributors (Apple=
, Spotify etc) Its of course ther own fault for not jumping in quick and bu=
ilding their own online music services, and spent too much time stamping on=
 Napster instead... Now the CEO of Napster is a Board member of Spotify and=
 hes considered a legit=A0businessman... Go figure!<br>

<br>That is all..</div><div style><br></div><div style>Mark</div></div><div=
 class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 30, 2=
013 at 3:09 PM, Per Boysen <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:perboyse=
n@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">perboysen@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br=
>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">My guess is that &quot;the new paradigm&quot=
; is not happening to digital sales<br>
of music but rather to cultural norms and and people&#39;s ways of<br>
relating to music. We can already see the change: fewer people value<br>
to own music like old days &quot;collectors&quot; did. One is not motivated=
 to<br>
pay for music just because it is music. However, the much older role<br>
for music in the society, when music serves a specific purpose, is<br>
still being regarded as something worth to pay for. Like if you go out<br>
to dance you aren&#39;t bothered paying for an entrance ticked, or if<br>
going to a concert. An even more obvious example is the rapidly<br>
growing media that uses music for a very specific purpose - films,<br>
games, presentations - everyone today agrees to pay for this and music<br>
goes with the package. I think that we are repelling back to where it<br>
has been for most of mankind&#39;s history; music mostly exists for a<br>
specific purpose, to play a role in a specific context. The period<br>
where music was just one consumable product among others on a market<br>
is about to end.<br>
<br>
Greetings from Sweden<br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
Per Boysen<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.perboysen.com" target=3D"_blank">www.perboysen.com</a=
><br>
<a href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/perboysen" target=3D"_blank">http://www.y=
outube.com/perboysen</a><br>
</font></span><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<br>
On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 2:35 PM, Tyler &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:programmer651@=
comcast.net">programmer651@comcast.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; Why would you call Itunes a rapist? I don&#39;t remember an artist bei=
ng treated unfairly by it.<br>
&gt; Free mp3 sites? Maybe! But Itunes? No!<br>
&gt; Tyler Z<br>
&gt; On Wed, 30 Jan 2013 04:32:52 -0800, Rick Walker wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;On 1/29/2013 9:39 PM, Emile Tobenfeld (a.k.a Dr. T) wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<a href=3D"http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/29/business/media/str=
eaming-shakes-up-music-industrys-model-for-royalties.html?ref=3Dus" target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/29/business/media/streaming-shak=
es-up-music-industrys-model-for-royalties.html?ref=3Dus</a><br>


&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;*This is one of the most depressing articles I&#39;ve read in a=
 long time.**<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;**<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;**Does anyone remember when Colonel Tom Parker was revealed to =
have<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;cut a deal with Elvis Presley **<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;*<br>
&gt;&gt;*so that he would receive a usurious 50% of ALL money that Elvis ma=
de?**<br>
&gt;&gt;**<br>
&gt;&gt;**It was unprecedented and the rest of the music business, artists =
and<br>
&gt;&gt;the public recoiled heavily from the news (though cynics always poi=
nted **<br>
&gt;&gt;**out that 50% of $40 million dollars was still vastly better than =
0% of<br>
&gt;&gt;nothing).**<br>
&gt;&gt;**<br>
&gt;&gt;**Well folks, =A0 iTunes, =A0one of the greatest rapists of musical=
<br>
&gt;&gt;artistry, in the world charges 50% of ALL DOWNLOAD SALES.**<br>
&gt;&gt;**<br>
&gt;&gt;**And they are the good guys compared to Pandora and Spotify, whose=
<br>
&gt;&gt;statistics make iTunes look like positive artistic **<br>
&gt;&gt;**philanthropists.**<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;A new paradigm of selling digital content online needs to assert<br=
>
&gt;&gt;itself. =A0 One that is fair to artists and all the energy<br>
&gt;&gt;and time and money they spend trying to create art for people.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;There are rumors of this coming. =A0 =A0I can&#39;t wait.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;Rick Walker<br>
&gt;&gt;Fuck iTunes! =A0 =A0Fuck Spotify! =A0 =A0 Fuck Pandora!<br>
&gt;&gt;Fuck the dominant paradigm that says that downloading other people&=
#39;s<br>
&gt;&gt;music is okay as long as you get away with it.<br>
&gt;&gt;Theft if Theft, Folks!<br>
&gt;&gt;*<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br>=
<i style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(255,255,255);backgroun=
d-color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font style=3D"font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif" siz=
e=3D"4"><u>Mark Francombe</u></font></i><br>

<font size=3D"1"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.markfra=
ncombe.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.markfrancombe.com</a><br style=3D"color:=
rgb(51,0,51)"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.ordoabkhao=
.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.ordoabkhao.com</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,=
51)">

<a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://vimeo.com/user825094" target=
=3D"_blank">http://vimeo.com/user825094</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)"=
><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.looop.no/" target=3D"_b=
lank">http://www.looop.no</a><br>

twitter @markfrancombe<br><a href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@=
N00/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/</a><br><=
/font>
</div>

--f46d042f973282092504d482fe4f--

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Subject: Re: Zoe Keating in NY Times article.@borisfx.com
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Mark very well put. Its not the age of our fathers. Though there is
much good and things we can do in the digi age like meet all of you
folks that I never would known but as you so elloquintlu put, its a
BIG BUTT and with anything iin our world there is a balance and too
much one way generally corrupts.

Jim

On 1/30/13, mark francombe <mark@markfrancombe.com> wrote:
> @Tyler, its us old folks who used to earn a wage from
> being moderately successful musicians that are moaning about its is now
> compared to how it used to be. The big difference between then and now is
> that the companies selling you music (im not talking about torrents or
> pirate mp3s, thats piracy, and has always been there, remember bootleg
> tapes?) are paying the artists infinitesimal amounts compared to what the=
y
> used to. It doesnt make any sense to me that now, there are no
> manufacturing costs, and all marketing is vis the net, social media etc,
> there IS no CDs or Vinyl albums to pay for, there are no posters flyers o=
r
> adverts to design and print, its all online. (I will concede that the big
> site probably spend millions on site development). An thats it,
> As Per says, the shift HAS changed, there no going back to the old days,
> downloads and streaming are here to stay, you might as well get used to
> it... BUT, and its a fucking HUGE BUTT...
> THERE NO REASON MUSICIANS SHOULD STAND UP FOR THIER RIGHTS!!!
>
> The record companies before, at least came from a standpoint of loving
> music, now the music business is being strangled by the distributors
> (Apple, Spotify etc) Its of course ther own fault for not jumping in quic=
k
> and building their own online music services, and spent too much time
> stamping on Napster instead... Now the CEO of Napster is a Board member o=
f
> Spotify and hes considered a legit businessman... Go figure!
>
> That is all..
>
> Mark
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> My guess is that "the new paradigm" is not happening to digital sales
>> of music but rather to cultural norms and and people's ways of
>> relating to music. We can already see the change: fewer people value
>> to own music like old days "collectors" did. One is not motivated to
>> pay for music just because it is music. However, the much older role
>> for music in the society, when music serves a specific purpose, is
>> still being regarded as something worth to pay for. Like if you go out
>> to dance you aren't bothered paying for an entrance ticked, or if
>> going to a concert. An even more obvious example is the rapidly
>> growing media that uses music for a very specific purpose - films,
>> games, presentations - everyone today agrees to pay for this and music
>> goes with the package. I think that we are repelling back to where it
>> has been for most of mankind's history; music mostly exists for a
>> specific purpose, to play a role in a specific context. The period
>> where music was just one consumable product among others on a market
>> is about to end.
>>
>> Greetings from Sweden
>>
>> Per Boysen
>> www.perboysen.com
>> http://www.youtube.com/perboysen
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 2:35 PM, Tyler <programmer651@comcast.net> wrote=
:
>> > Why would you call Itunes a rapist? I don't remember an artist being
>> treated unfairly by it.
>> > Free mp3 sites? Maybe! But Itunes? No!
>> > Tyler Z
>> > On Wed, 30 Jan 2013 04:32:52 -0800, Rick Walker wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >>On 1/29/2013 9:39 PM, Emile Tobenfeld (a.k.a Dr. T) wrote:
>> >>>
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/29/business/media/streaming-shakes-up-mus=
ic-industrys-model-for-royalties.html?ref=3Dus
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>*This is one of the most depressing articles I've read in a long
>> >>> time.**
>> >>>**
>> >>>**Does anyone remember when Colonel Tom Parker was revealed to have
>> >>>cut a deal with Elvis Presley **
>> >>>*
>> >>*so that he would receive a usurious 50% of ALL money that Elvis
>> >> made?**
>> >>**
>> >>**It was unprecedented and the rest of the music business, artists and
>> >>the public recoiled heavily from the news (though cynics always pointe=
d
>> **
>> >>**out that 50% of $40 million dollars was still vastly better than 0%
>> >> of
>> >>nothing).**
>> >>**
>> >>**Well folks,   iTunes,  one of the greatest rapists of musical
>> >>artistry, in the world charges 50% of ALL DOWNLOAD SALES.**
>> >>**
>> >>**And they are the good guys compared to Pandora and Spotify, whose
>> >>statistics make iTunes look like positive artistic **
>> >>**philanthropists.**
>> >>
>> >>A new paradigm of selling digital content online needs to assert
>> >>itself.   One that is fair to artists and all the energy
>> >>and time and money they spend trying to create art for people.
>> >>
>> >>There are rumors of this coming.    I can't wait.
>> >>
>> >>Rick Walker
>> >>Fuck iTunes!    Fuck Spotify!     Fuck Pandora!
>> >>Fuck the dominant paradigm that says that downloading other people's
>> >>music is okay as long as you get away with it.
>> >>Theft if Theft, Folks!
>> >>*
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *Mark Francombe*
> www.markfrancombe.com
> www.ordoabkhao.com
> http://vimeo.com/user825094
> http://www.looop.no
> twitter @markfrancombe
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/
>

--=20
Sent from my mobile device

--=20
*jimgoodin.com* <http://jimgoodin.com> - 'Acoustic guitar renaissance,
color blue, repetitive minimalism'

*The Recordings of Wood and Wire Music*<http://woodandwiremusic.bandcamp.co=
m> -
'Organically inspired New Music'

*From Brooklyn To Glindran <http://jimgoodinpeterthorn.bandcamp.com>*, a
new World/Free Jazz recording by Jim Goodin & Peter Th=F6rn.  Proceeds from
this CD will benefit *JDRF International <http://jdrf.org>*

*Tips Across the
Waters<http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tips-across-the-waters/id474128076?mt=
=3D8>
*, a new app for iOS from James Goodin/Wood and Wire Ware.

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Subject: Re: Zoe Keating in NY Times article.@borisfx.com
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I'm thinking Eno had it right : ""I think records were just a little bubble
through time and those who made a living from them for a while were lucky.
There is no reason why anyone should have made so much money from selling
records except that everything was right for this period of time. I always
knew it would run out sooner or later. It couldn't last, and now it's
running out. I don't particularly care that it is and like the way things
are going. The record age was just a blip. It was a bit like if you had a
source of whale blubber in the 1840s and it could be used as fuel. Before
gas came along, if you traded in whale blubber, you were the richest man on
Earth. Then gas came along and you'd be stuck with your whale blubber.
Sorry mate =96 history's moving along. Recorded music equals whale blubber.
Eventually, something else will replace it."

Some suggest live performance, others working on soundtracks, etc; but
fundamentally the people who purchase (or don't) something decide its
value. I'm thankful for every small dollar I've made selling tunes (and it
is no living at all, nor is it intended to be one), but the reality is that
there are thousands of fish like me swimming in what is already a very
small pond. Music is incredibly easy to distribute (got a working internet
connection? DONE), and the surfeit of choice means that 'being heard' in
any sense of the word is a challenge, let alone getting paid. Blaming the
record industry is a fool's game-- they have always been out for
themselves-- there was a *very* narrow window when you could make money off
recorded music-- it's coming to an end, and the best that can be done now
is to figure out how to make money from one's music in other ways.

T


On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 7:16 AM, mark francombe <mark@markfrancombe.com>wro=
te:

> @Tyler, its us old folks who used to earn a wage from
> being moderately successful musicians that are moaning about its is now
> compared to how it used to be. The big difference between then and now is
> that the companies selling you music (im not talking about torrents or
> pirate mp3s, thats piracy, and has always been there, remember bootleg
> tapes?) are paying the artists infinitesimal amounts compared to what the=
y
> used to. It doesnt make any sense to me that now, there are no
> manufacturing costs, and all marketing is vis the net, social media etc,
> there IS no CDs or Vinyl albums to pay for, there are no posters flyers o=
r
> adverts to design and print, its all online. (I will concede that the big
> site probably spend millions on site development). An thats it,
> As Per says, the shift HAS changed, there no going back to the old days,
> downloads and streaming are here to stay, you might as well get used to
> it... BUT, and its a fucking HUGE BUTT...
> THERE NO REASON MUSICIANS SHOULD STAND UP FOR THIER RIGHTS!!!
>
> The record companies before, at least came from a standpoint of loving
> music, now the music business is being strangled by the distributors
> (Apple, Spotify etc) Its of course ther own fault for not jumping in quic=
k
> and building their own online music services, and spent too much time
> stamping on Napster instead... Now the CEO of Napster is a Board member o=
f
> Spotify and hes considered a legit businessman... Go figure!
>
> That is all..
>
> Mark
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> My guess is that "the new paradigm" is not happening to digital sales
>> of music but rather to cultural norms and and people's ways of
>> relating to music. We can already see the change: fewer people value
>> to own music like old days "collectors" did. One is not motivated to
>> pay for music just because it is music. However, the much older role
>> for music in the society, when music serves a specific purpose, is
>> still being regarded as something worth to pay for. Like if you go out
>> to dance you aren't bothered paying for an entrance ticked, or if
>> going to a concert. An even more obvious example is the rapidly
>> growing media that uses music for a very specific purpose - films,
>> games, presentations - everyone today agrees to pay for this and music
>> goes with the package. I think that we are repelling back to where it
>> has been for most of mankind's history; music mostly exists for a
>> specific purpose, to play a role in a specific context. The period
>> where music was just one consumable product among others on a market
>> is about to end.
>>
>> Greetings from Sweden
>>
>> Per Boysen
>> www.perboysen.com
>> http://www.youtube.com/perboysen
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 2:35 PM, Tyler <programmer651@comcast.net> wrote=
:
>> > Why would you call Itunes a rapist? I don't remember an artist being
>> treated unfairly by it.
>> > Free mp3 sites? Maybe! But Itunes? No!
>> > Tyler Z
>> > On Wed, 30 Jan 2013 04:32:52 -0800, Rick Walker wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >>On 1/29/2013 9:39 PM, Emile Tobenfeld (a.k.a Dr. T) wrote:
>> >>>
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/29/business/media/streaming-shakes-up-mus=
ic-industrys-model-for-royalties.html?ref=3Dus
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>*This is one of the most depressing articles I've read in a long
>> time.**
>> >>>**
>> >>>**Does anyone remember when Colonel Tom Parker was revealed to have
>> >>>cut a deal with Elvis Presley **
>> >>>*
>> >>*so that he would receive a usurious 50% of ALL money that Elvis made?=
**
>> >>**
>> >>**It was unprecedented and the rest of the music business, artists and
>> >>the public recoiled heavily from the news (though cynics always pointe=
d
>> **
>> >>**out that 50% of $40 million dollars was still vastly better than 0% =
of
>> >>nothing).**
>> >>**
>> >>**Well folks,   iTunes,  one of the greatest rapists of musical
>> >>artistry, in the world charges 50% of ALL DOWNLOAD SALES.**
>> >>**
>> >>**And they are the good guys compared to Pandora and Spotify, whose
>> >>statistics make iTunes look like positive artistic **
>> >>**philanthropists.**
>> >>
>> >>A new paradigm of selling digital content online needs to assert
>> >>itself.   One that is fair to artists and all the energy
>> >>and time and money they spend trying to create art for people.
>> >>
>> >>There are rumors of this coming.    I can't wait.
>> >>
>> >>Rick Walker
>> >>Fuck iTunes!    Fuck Spotify!     Fuck Pandora!
>> >>Fuck the dominant paradigm that says that downloading other people's
>> >>music is okay as long as you get away with it.
>> >>Theft if Theft, Folks!
>> >>*
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *Mark Francombe*
> www.markfrancombe.com
> www.ordoabkhao.com
> http://vimeo.com/user825094
> http://www.looop.no
> twitter @markfrancombe
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/
>



--=20
http://toaster.bandcamp.com

--f46d044787fb89a5ff04d4842c8d
Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I&#39;m thinking Eno had it right : &quot;<span style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51=
);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:18px;background-c=
olor:rgb(255,255,255)">&quot;I think records were just a little bubble thro=
ugh time and those who made a living from them for a while were lucky. Ther=
e is no reason why anyone should have made so much money from selling recor=
ds except that everything was right for this period of time. I always knew =
it would run out sooner or later. It couldn&#39;t last, and now it&#39;s ru=
nning out. I don&#39;t particularly care that it is and like the way things=
 are going. The record age was just a blip. It was a bit like if you had a =
source of whale blubber in the 1840s and it could be used as fuel. Before g=
as came along, if you traded in whale blubber, you were the richest man on =
Earth. Then gas came along and you&#39;d be stuck with your whale blubber. =
Sorry mate =96 history&#39;s moving along. Recorded music equals whale blub=
ber. Eventually, something else will replace it.&quot;</span><div>
<br></div><div><font color=3D"#333333" face=3D"arial, sans-serif"><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:14px;line-height:18px">Some suggest live performance, other=
s working on soundtracks, etc; but fundamentally the people who purchase (o=
r don&#39;t) something decide its value. I&#39;m thankful for every small d=
ollar I&#39;ve made selling tunes (and it is no living at all, nor is it in=
tended to be one), but the reality is that there are thousands of fish like=
 me swimming in what is already a very small pond. Music is incredibly easy=
 to distribute (got a working internet connection? DONE), and the surfeit o=
f choice means that &#39;being heard&#39; in any sense of the word is a cha=
llenge, let alone getting paid. Blaming the record industry is a fool&#39;s=
 game-- they have always been out for themselves-- there was a *very* narro=
w window when you could make money off recorded music-- it&#39;s coming to =
an end, and the best that can be done now is to figure out how to make mone=
y from one&#39;s music in other ways.</span></font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#333333" face=3D"arial, sans-serif"><span style=3D"font=
-size:14px;line-height:18px"><br></span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#3=
33333" face=3D"arial, sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:14px;line-height=
:18px">T=A0</span></font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#333333" face=3D"arial, sans-serif"><span style=3D"font=
-size:14px;line-height:18px"><br></span></font><br><div class=3D"gmail_quot=
e">On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 7:16 AM, mark francombe <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:mark@markfrancombe.com" target=3D"_blank">mark@markfrancomb=
e.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">@Tyler, its us old folks wh=
o used to earn a wage from being=A0moderately=A0successful musicians that a=
re moaning about its is now compared to how it used to be. The big differen=
ce=A0between=A0then and now is that the companies selling you music (im not=
 talking about torrents or pirate mp3s, thats piracy, and has always been t=
here, remember bootleg tapes?) are paying the artists=A0infinitesimal=A0amo=
unts compared to what they used to. It doesnt make any sense to me that now=
, there are no manufacturing costs, and all marketing is vis the net, socia=
l media etc, there IS no CDs or Vinyl albums to pay for, there are no poste=
rs flyers or adverts to design and print, its all online. (I will concede t=
hat the big site probably spend millions on site development). An thats it,=
=A0<div>


As Per says, the shift HAS changed, there no going back to the old days, do=
wnloads and streaming are here to stay, you might as well get used to it...=
 BUT, and its a fucking HUGE BUTT...=A0<br>THERE NO REASON=A0MUSICIANS=A0SH=
OULD STAND UP FOR THIER RIGHTS!!!<br>


<br>The record companies before, at least came from a standpoint of loving =
music, now the music business is being strangled by the distributors (Apple=
, Spotify etc) Its of course ther own fault for not jumping in quick and bu=
ilding their own online music services, and spent too much time stamping on=
 Napster instead... Now the CEO of Napster is a Board member of Spotify and=
 hes considered a legit=A0businessman... Go figure!<br>


<br>That is all..</div><div><br></div><div>Mark</div></div><div class=3D"gm=
ail_extra"><div><div class=3D"h5"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed=
, Jan 30, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Per Boysen <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:perboysen@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">perboysen@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span=
> wrote:<br>


<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">My guess is that &quot;the new paradigm&quot=
; is not happening to digital sales<br>
of music but rather to cultural norms and and people&#39;s ways of<br>
relating to music. We can already see the change: fewer people value<br>
to own music like old days &quot;collectors&quot; did. One is not motivated=
 to<br>
pay for music just because it is music. However, the much older role<br>
for music in the society, when music serves a specific purpose, is<br>
still being regarded as something worth to pay for. Like if you go out<br>
to dance you aren&#39;t bothered paying for an entrance ticked, or if<br>
going to a concert. An even more obvious example is the rapidly<br>
growing media that uses music for a very specific purpose - films,<br>
games, presentations - everyone today agrees to pay for this and music<br>
goes with the package. I think that we are repelling back to where it<br>
has been for most of mankind&#39;s history; music mostly exists for a<br>
specific purpose, to play a role in a specific context. The period<br>
where music was just one consumable product among others on a market<br>
is about to end.<br>
<br>
Greetings from Sweden<br>
<span><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
Per Boysen<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.perboysen.com" target=3D"_blank">www.perboysen.com</a=
><br>
<a href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/perboysen" target=3D"_blank">http://www.y=
outube.com/perboysen</a><br>
</font></span><div><div><br>
<br>
On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 2:35 PM, Tyler &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:programmer651@=
comcast.net" target=3D"_blank">programmer651@comcast.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; Why would you call Itunes a rapist? I don&#39;t remember an artist bei=
ng treated unfairly by it.<br>
&gt; Free mp3 sites? Maybe! But Itunes? No!<br>
&gt; Tyler Z<br>
&gt; On Wed, 30 Jan 2013 04:32:52 -0800, Rick Walker wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;On 1/29/2013 9:39 PM, Emile Tobenfeld (a.k.a Dr. T) wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<a href=3D"http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/29/business/media/str=
eaming-shakes-up-music-industrys-model-for-royalties.html?ref=3Dus" target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/29/business/media/streaming-shak=
es-up-music-industrys-model-for-royalties.html?ref=3Dus</a><br>



&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;*This is one of the most depressing articles I&#39;ve read in a=
 long time.**<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;**<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;**Does anyone remember when Colonel Tom Parker was revealed to =
have<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;cut a deal with Elvis Presley **<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;*<br>
&gt;&gt;*so that he would receive a usurious 50% of ALL money that Elvis ma=
de?**<br>
&gt;&gt;**<br>
&gt;&gt;**It was unprecedented and the rest of the music business, artists =
and<br>
&gt;&gt;the public recoiled heavily from the news (though cynics always poi=
nted **<br>
&gt;&gt;**out that 50% of $40 million dollars was still vastly better than =
0% of<br>
&gt;&gt;nothing).**<br>
&gt;&gt;**<br>
&gt;&gt;**Well folks, =A0 iTunes, =A0one of the greatest rapists of musical=
<br>
&gt;&gt;artistry, in the world charges 50% of ALL DOWNLOAD SALES.**<br>
&gt;&gt;**<br>
&gt;&gt;**And they are the good guys compared to Pandora and Spotify, whose=
<br>
&gt;&gt;statistics make iTunes look like positive artistic **<br>
&gt;&gt;**philanthropists.**<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;A new paradigm of selling digital content online needs to assert<br=
>
&gt;&gt;itself. =A0 One that is fair to artists and all the energy<br>
&gt;&gt;and time and money they spend trying to create art for people.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;There are rumors of this coming. =A0 =A0I can&#39;t wait.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;Rick Walker<br>
&gt;&gt;Fuck iTunes! =A0 =A0Fuck Spotify! =A0 =A0 Fuck Pandora!<br>
&gt;&gt;Fuck the dominant paradigm that says that downloading other people&=
#39;s<br>
&gt;&gt;music is okay as long as you get away with it.<br>
&gt;&gt;Theft if Theft, Folks!<br>
&gt;&gt;*<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div></div><=
/div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">-- <br><i style=3D"font=
-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(255,255,255);background-color:rgb(0,0,=
0)"><font style=3D"font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif" size=3D"4"><u>Mark =
Francombe</u></font></i><br>


<font size=3D"1"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.markfra=
ncombe.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.markfrancombe.com</a><br style=3D"color:=
rgb(51,0,51)"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.ordoabkhao=
.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.ordoabkhao.com</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,=
51)">


<a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://vimeo.com/user825094" target=
=3D"_blank">http://vimeo.com/user825094</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)"=
><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.looop.no/" target=3D"_b=
lank">http://www.looop.no</a><br>


twitter @markfrancombe<br><a href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@=
N00/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/</a><br><=
/font>
</font></span></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><a href=3D"h=
ttp://toaster.bandcamp.com" target=3D"_blank">http://toaster.bandcamp.com</=
a>
</div>

--f46d044787fb89a5ff04d4842c8d--

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Subject: Re: Zoe Keating in NY Times article.@borisfx.com
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On Jan 30, 2013, at 8:40 AM, Todd Elliott <toddbert@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm thinking Eno had it right : ""I think records were just a little =
bubble through time and those who made a living from them for a while =
were lucky. There is no reason why anyone should have made so much money =
from selling records except that everything was right for this period of =
time. I always knew it would run out sooner or later. It couldn't last, =
and now it's running out. I don't particularly care that it is and like =
the way things are going. The record age was just a blip. It was a bit =
like if you had a source of whale blubber in the 1840s and it could be =
used as fuel. Before gas came along, if you traded in whale blubber, you =
were the richest man on Earth. Then gas came along and you'd be stuck =
with your whale blubber. Sorry mate =96 history's moving along. Recorded =
music equals whale blubber. Eventually, something else will replace it."

Yes, I always thought that remark was spot on.


> Some suggest live performance, others working on soundtracks, etc; but =
fundamentally the people who purchase (or don't) something decide its =
value. I'm thankful for every small dollar I've made selling tunes (and =
it is no living at all, nor is it intended to be one), but the reality =
is that there are thousands of fish like me swimming in what is already =
a very small pond. Music is incredibly easy to distribute (got a working =
internet connection? DONE), and the surfeit of choice means that 'being =
heard' in any sense of the word is a challenge, let alone getting paid. =
Blaming the record industry is a fool's game-- they have always been out =
for themselves-- there was a *very* narrow window when you could make =
money off recorded music-- it's coming to an end, and the best that can =
be done now is to figure out how to make money from one's music in other =
ways.

Exactly so.=20

Probably 90% of my music sales are at gigs. Get out there and play, and =
make contact with people.





David Gans - david@trufun.com or david@gdhour.com
Truth and Fun, Inc., 484 Lake Park Ave. #102, Oakland CA 94610-2730
Blog:  http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com
Web site: http://www.dgans.com
Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dgans
Music: http://www.cdbaby.com/all/dgans





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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br style=3D"font-size: 16px; =
"><span style=3D"font-size: 16px; ">On Jan 30, 2013, at 8:40 AM, Todd =
Elliott &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:toddbert@gmail.com">toddbert@gmail.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:</span><br style=3D"font-size: 16px; "><br style=3D"font-size: =
16px; "><blockquote type=3D"cite">I'm thinking Eno had it right : ""I =
think records were just a little bubble through time and those who made =
a living from them for a while were&nbsp;lucky. There is no reason why =
anyone should have made so much money from selling records except that =
everything was right for this period&nbsp;of time. I always knew it =
would run out sooner or later. It couldn't last, and now it's running =
out. I don't particularly care that it is and like the&nbsp;way things =
are going. The record age was just a blip. It was a bit like if you had =
a source of whale blubber in the 1840s and it could be used =
as&nbsp;fuel. Before gas came along, if you traded in whale blubber, you =
were the richest man on Earth. Then gas came along and you'd be stuck =
with&nbsp;your whale blubber. Sorry mate =96 history's moving along. =
Recorded music equals whale blubber. Eventually, something else will =
replace it."<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Yes, I always thought =
that remark was spot on.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" style=3D"font-size: 16px; ">Some suggest live performance, =
others working on soundtracks, etc; but fundamentally the people who =
purchase (or don't) something decide&nbsp;its value. I'm thankful for =
every small dollar I've made selling tunes (and it is no living at all, =
nor is it intended to be one), but the reality is that&nbsp;there are =
thousands of fish like me swimming in what is already a very small pond. =
Music is incredibly easy to distribute (got a working =
internet&nbsp;connection? DONE), and the surfeit of choice means that =
'being heard' in any sense of the word is a challenge, let alone getting =
paid. Blaming&nbsp;the record industry is a fool's game-- they have =
always been out for themselves-- there was a *very* narrow window when =
you could make&nbsp;money off recorded music-- it's coming to an end, =
and the best that can be done now is to figure out how to make money =
from one's music in&nbsp;other =
ways.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Exactly =
so.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Probably 90% of my music sales are at =
gigs. Get out there and play, and make contact with =
people.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><=
br style=3D"font-size: 16px; "><span style=3D"font-size: 16px; ">David =
Gans - <a href=3D"mailto:david@trufun.com">david@trufun.com</a> or <a =
href=3D"mailto:david@gdhour.com">david@gdhour.com</a></span><br =
style=3D"font-size: 16px; "><span style=3D"font-size: 16px; ">Truth and =
Fun, Inc., 484 Lake Park Ave. #102, Oakland CA 94610-2730</span><br =
style=3D"font-size: 16px; "><span style=3D"font-size: 16px; ">Blog: =
&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com">http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com</a>=
</span><br style=3D"font-size: 16px; "><span style=3D"font-size: 16px; =
">Web site: <a =
href=3D"http://www.dgans.com">http://www.dgans.com</a></span><br =
style=3D"font-size: 16px; "><span style=3D"font-size: 16px; ">Photos: <a =
href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/photos/dgans">http://www.flickr.com/photos/d=
gans</a></span><br style=3D"font-size: 16px; "><span style=3D"font-size: =
16px; ">Music: <a =
href=3D"http://www.cdbaby.com/all/dgans">http://www.cdbaby.com/all/dgans</=
a></span><br style=3D"font-size: 16px; "><br style=3D"font-size: 16px; =
"><br style=3D"font-size: 16px; "><br style=3D"font-size: 16px; =
"><br></body></html>=

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Subject: Re: Zoe Keating in NY Times article.@borisfx.com
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Except that Eno is specifically referring to records... It's not as 
though MUSIC isn't being consumed...

At 8:40 AM -0800 1/30/13, Todd Elliott wrote:
>I'm thinking Eno had it right : ""I think records were just a little 
>bubble through time and those who made a living from them for a 
>while were lucky. There is no reason why anyone should have made so 
>much money from selling records except that everything was right for 
>this period of time. I always knew it would run out sooner or later. 
>It couldn't last, and now it's running out. I don't particularly 
>care that it is and like the way things are going. The record age 
>was just a blip. It was a bit like if you had a source of whale 
>blubber in the 1840s and it could be used as fuel. Before gas came 
>along, if you traded in whale blubber, you were the richest man on 
>Earth. Then gas came along and you'd be stuck with your whale 
>blubber. Sorry mate - history's moving along. Recorded music equals 
>whale blubber. Eventually, something else will replace it."
>
>Some suggest live performance, others working on soundtracks, etc; 
>but fundamentally the people who purchase (or don't) something 
>decide its value. I'm thankful for every small dollar I've made 
>selling tunes (and it is no living at all, nor is it intended to be 
>one), but the reality is that there are thousands of fish like me 
>swimming in what is already a very small pond. Music is incredibly 
>easy to distribute (got a working internet connection? DONE), and 
>the surfeit of choice means that 'being heard' in any sense of the 
>word is a challenge, let alone getting paid. Blaming the record 
>industry is a fool's game-- they have always been out for 
>themselves-- there was a *very* narrow window when you could make 
>money off recorded music-- it's coming to an end, and the best that 
>can be done now is to figure out how to make money from one's music 
>in other ways.
>
>T
>
>
>On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 7:16 AM, mark francombe 
><<mailto:mark@markfrancombe.com>mark@markfrancombe.com> wrote:
>
>@Tyler, its us old folks who used to earn a wage from being 
>moderately successful musicians that are moaning about its is now 
>compared to how it used to be. The big difference between then and 
>now is that the companies selling you music (im not talking about 
>torrents or pirate mp3s, thats piracy, and has always been there, 
>remember bootleg tapes?) are paying the artists infinitesimal 
>amounts compared to what they used to. It doesnt make any sense to 
>me that now, there are no manufacturing costs, and all marketing is 
>vis the net, social media etc, there IS no CDs or Vinyl albums to 
>pay for, there are no posters flyers or adverts to design and print, 
>its all online. (I will concede that the big site probably spend 
>millions on site development). An thats it,
>As Per says, the shift HAS changed, there no going back to the old 
>days, downloads and streaming are here to stay, you might as well 
>get used to it... BUT, and its a fucking HUGE BUTT...
>THERE NO REASON MUSICIANS SHOULD STAND UP FOR THIER RIGHTS!!!
>
>The record companies before, at least came from a standpoint of 
>loving music, now the music business is being strangled by the 
>distributors (Apple, Spotify etc) Its of course ther own fault for 
>not jumping in quick and building their own online music services, 
>and spent too much time stamping on Napster instead... Now the CEO 
>of Napster is a Board member of Spotify and hes considered a legit 
>businessman... Go figure!
>
>That is all..
>
>Mark
>
>
>On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Per Boysen 
><<mailto:perboysen@gmail.com>perboysen@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>My guess is that "the new paradigm" is not happening to digital sales
>of music but rather to cultural norms and and people's ways of
>relating to music. We can already see the change: fewer people value
>to own music like old days "collectors" did. One is not motivated to
>pay for music just because it is music. However, the much older role
>for music in the society, when music serves a specific purpose, is
>still being regarded as something worth to pay for. Like if you go out
>to dance you aren't bothered paying for an entrance ticked, or if
>going to a concert. An even more obvious example is the rapidly
>growing media that uses music for a very specific purpose - films,
>games, presentations - everyone today agrees to pay for this and music
>goes with the package. I think that we are repelling back to where it
>has been for most of mankind's history; music mostly exists for a
>specific purpose, to play a role in a specific context. The period
>where music was just one consumable product among others on a market
>is about to end.
>
>Greetings from Sweden
>
>Per Boysen
><http://www.perboysen.com>www.perboysen.com
><http://www.youtube.com/perboysen>http://www.youtube.com/perboysen
>
>
>
>On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 2:35 PM, Tyler 
><<mailto:programmer651@comcast.net>programmer651@comcast.net> wrote:
>>  Why would you call Itunes a rapist? I don't remember an artist 
>>being treated unfairly by it.
>>  Free mp3 sites? Maybe! But Itunes? No!
>>  Tyler Z
>>  On Wed, 30 Jan 2013 04:32:52 -0800, Rick Walker wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On 1/29/2013 9:39 PM, Emile Tobenfeld (a.k.a Dr. T) wrote:
>>>><http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/29/business/media/streaming-shakes-up-music-industrys-model-for-royalties.html?ref=us>http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/29/business/media/streaming-shakes-up-music-industrys-model-for-royalties.html?ref=us
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>*This is one of the most depressing articles I've read in a long time.**
>>>>**
>>>>**Does anyone remember when Colonel Tom Parker was revealed to have
>>>>cut a deal with Elvis Presley **
>>>>*
>>>*so that he would receive a usurious 50% of ALL money that Elvis made?**
>>>**
>>>**It was unprecedented and the rest of the music business, artists and
>>>the public recoiled heavily from the news (though cynics always pointed **
>>>**out that 50% of $40 million dollars was still vastly better than 0% of
>>>nothing).**
>>>**
>>>**Well folks, iTunes, one of the greatest rapists of musical
>>>artistry, in the world charges 50% of ALL DOWNLOAD SALES.**
>>>**
>>>**And they are the good guys compared to Pandora and Spotify, whose
>>>statistics make iTunes look like positive artistic **
>>>**philanthropists.**
>>>
>>>A new paradigm of selling digital content online needs to assert
>>>itself. One that is fair to artists and all the energy
>>>and time and money they spend trying to create art for people.
>>>
>>>There are rumors of this coming. I can't wait.
>>>
>>>Rick Walker
>>>Fuck iTunes! Fuck Spotify! Fuck Pandora!
>>>Fuck the dominant paradigm that says that downloading other people's
>>>music is okay as long as you get away with it.
>>>Theft if Theft, Folks!
>>>*
>
>
>
>
>--
>Mark Francombe
><http://www.markfrancombe.com/>www.markfrancombe.com
><http://www.ordoabkhao.com/>www.ordoabkhao.com
><http://vimeo.com/user825094>http://vimeo.com/user825094
><http://www.looop.no/>http://www.looop.no
>twitter @markfrancombe
><http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/>http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/
>
>
>
>
>--
><http://toaster.bandcamp.com>http://toaster.bandcamp.com


-- 

...
http://www.zmix.net

http://albumcredits.com/zmix
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<html><head><style type="text/css"><!--
blockquote, dl, ul, ol, li { padding-top: 0 ; padding-bottom: 0 }
 --></style><title>Re: Zoe Keating in NY Times
article.@borisfx.com</title></head><body>
<div>Except that Eno is specifically referring to records... It's not
as though MUSIC isn't being consumed...</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>At 8:40 AM -0800 1/30/13, Todd Elliott wrote:</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>I'm thinking Eno had it right :
&quot;&quot;I think records were just a little bubble through time and
those who made a living from them for a while were lucky. There is no
reason why anyone should have made so much money from selling records
except that everything was right for this period of time. I always
knew it would run out sooner or later. It couldn't last, and now it's
running out. I don't particularly care that it is and like the way
things are going. The record age was just a blip. It was a bit like if
you had a source of whale blubber in the 1840s and it could be used as
fuel. Before gas came along, if you traded in whale blubber, you were
the richest man on Earth. Then gas came along and you'd be stuck with
your whale blubber. Sorry mate - history's moving along. Recorded
music equals whale blubber. Eventually, something else will replace
it.&quot;</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" color="#333333">Some
suggest live performance, others working on soundtracks, etc; but
fundamentally the people who purchase (or don't) something decide its
value. I'm thankful for every small dollar I've made selling tunes
(and it is no living at all, nor is it intended to be one), but the
reality is that there are thousands of fish like me swimming in what
is already a very small pond. Music is incredibly easy to distribute
(got a working internet connection? DONE), and the surfeit of choice
means that 'being heard' in any sense of the word is a challenge, let
alone getting paid. Blaming the record industry is a fool's game--
they have always been out for themselves-- there was a *very* narrow
window when you could make money off recorded music-- it's coming to
an end, and the best that can be done now is to figure out how to make
money from one's music in other ways.</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial"
color="#333333"><br></font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial"
color="#333333">T</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" color="#333333"><br>
</font><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 7:16 AM, mark
francombe &lt;<a
href="mailto:mark@markfrancombe.com">mark@markfrancombe.com</a>&gt;
wrote:<br>
<blockquote>@Tyler, its us old folks who used to earn a wage from
being moderately successful musicians that are moaning about its is
now compared to how it used to be. The big difference between then and
now is that the companies selling you music (im not talking about
torrents or pirate mp3s, thats piracy, and has always been there,
remember bootleg tapes?) are paying the artists infinitesimal amounts
compared to what they used to. It doesnt make any sense to me that
now, there are no manufacturing costs, and all marketing is vis the
net, social media etc, there IS no CDs or Vinyl albums to pay for,
there are no posters flyers or adverts to design and print, its all
online. (I will concede that the big site probably spend millions on
site development). An thats it,</blockquote>
<blockquote>As Per says, the shift HAS changed, there no going back to
the old days, downloads and streaming are here to stay, you might as
well get used to it... BUT, and its a fucking HUGE BUTT...<br>
THERE NO REASON MUSICIANS SHOULD STAND UP FOR THIER RIGHTS!!!<br>
<br>
The record companies before, at least came from a standpoint of loving
music, now the music business is being strangled by the distributors
(Apple, Spotify etc) Its of course ther own fault for not jumping in
quick and building their own online music services, and spent too much
time stamping on Napster instead... Now the CEO of Napster is a Board
member of Spotify and hes considered a legit businessman... Go
figure!<br>
<br>
That is all..</blockquote>
<blockquote><br></blockquote>
<blockquote>Mark</blockquote>
<blockquote><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Per Boysen &lt;<a
href="mailto:perboysen@gmail.com">perboysen@gmail.com</a>&gt;
wrote:<br>
<blockquote>My guess is that &quot;the new paradigm&quot; is not
happening to digital sales<br>
of music but rather to cultural norms and and people's ways of<br>
relating to music. We can already see the change: fewer people
value<br>
to own music like old days &quot;collectors&quot; did. One is not
motivated to<br>
pay for music just because it is music. However, the much older
role<br>
for music in the society, when music serves a specific purpose,
is</blockquote>
<blockquote>still being regarded as something worth to pay for. Like
if you go out<br>
to dance you aren't bothered paying for an entrance ticked, or if<br>
going to a concert. An even more obvious example is the rapidly<br>
growing media that uses music for a very specific purpose - films,<br>
games, presentations - everyone today agrees to pay for this and
music<br>
goes with the package. I think that we are repelling back to where
it<br>
has been for most of mankind's history; music mostly exists for a<br>
specific purpose, to play a role in a specific context. The period<br>
where music was just one consumable product among others on a
market<br>
is about to end.<br>
<br>
Greetings from Sweden<br>
<font color="#888888"><br>
Per Boysen<br>
</font><a href="http://www.perboysen.com"><font
color="#888888">www.perboysen.com</font></a><font color="#888888"><br>
</font><a href="http://www.youtube.com/perboysen"><font
color="#888888">http://www.youtube.com/perboysen</font></a><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote><br>
<br>
On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 2:35 PM, Tyler &lt;<a
href="mailto:programmer651@comcast.net">programmer651@comcast.net</a>&gt;
wrote:<br>
&gt; Why would you call Itunes a rapist? I don't remember an artist
being treated unfairly by it.<br>
&gt; Free mp3 sites? Maybe! But Itunes? No!<br>
&gt; Tyler Z<br>
&gt; On Wed, 30 Jan 2013 04:32:52 -0800, Rick Walker wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;On 1/29/2013 9:39 PM, Emile Tobenfeld (a.k.a Dr. T) wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<a
href=
"http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/29/business/media/streaming-shakes-up-music-industrys-model-for-royalties.html?ref=us"><span
></span
>http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/29/business/media/streaming-shakes-up<span
></span>-music-industrys-model-for-royalties.html?ref=us</a><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;*This is one of the most depressing articles I've read in
a long time.**<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;**<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;**Does anyone remember when Colonel Tom Parker was
revealed to have<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;cut a deal with Elvis Presley **<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;*<br>
&gt;&gt;*so that he would receive a usurious 50% of ALL money that
Elvis made?**<br>
&gt;&gt;**<br>
&gt;&gt;**It was unprecedented and the rest of the music business,
artists and<br>
&gt;&gt;the public recoiled heavily from the news (though cynics
always pointed **<br>
&gt;&gt;**out that 50% of $40 million dollars was still vastly better
than 0% of<br>
&gt;&gt;nothing).**<br>
&gt;&gt;**<br>
&gt;&gt;**Well folks, iTunes, one of the greatest rapists of
musical<br>
&gt;&gt;artistry, in the world charges 50% of ALL DOWNLOAD
SALES.**<br>
&gt;&gt;**<br>
&gt;&gt;**And they are the good guys compared to Pandora and Spotify,
whose<br>
&gt;&gt;statistics make iTunes look like positive artistic **<br>
&gt;&gt;**philanthropists.**<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;A new paradigm of selling digital content online needs to
assert<br>
&gt;&gt;itself. One that is fair to artists and all the energy<br>
&gt;&gt;and time and money they spend trying to create art for
people.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;There are rumors of this coming. I can't wait.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;Rick Walker<br>
&gt;&gt;Fuck iTunes! Fuck Spotify! Fuck Pandora!<br>
&gt;&gt;Fuck the dominant paradigm that says that downloading other
people's<br>
&gt;&gt;music is okay as long as you get away with it.<br>
&gt;&gt;Theft if Theft, Folks!<br>
&gt;&gt;*<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote><br></blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="#888888">--<br>
<font size="+1"><u><i>Mark Francombe</i></u></font><br>
</font><a href="http://www.markfrancombe.com/"><font size="-2"
color="#888888">www.markfrancombe.com</font></a><font size="-2"
color="#888888"><br>
</font><a href="http://www.ordoabkhao.com/"><font size="-2"
color="#888888">www.ordoabkhao.com</font></a><font size="-2"
color="#888888"><br>
</font><a href="http://vimeo.com/user825094"><font size="-2"
color="#888888">http://vimeo.com/user825094</font></a><font size="-2"
color="#888888"><br>
</font><a href="http://www.looop.no/"><font size="-2"
color="#888888">http://www.looop.no</font></a><font size="-2"
color="#888888"><br>
twitter @markfrancombe<br>
</font><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/"><font
size="-2"
color="#888888">http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/</font></a><br
>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>--<br>
<a
href="http://toaster.bandcamp.com">http://toaster.bandcamp.com</a></blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<x-sigsep><pre>-- 
</pre></x-sigsep>
<div><br>
...<br>
http://www.zmix.net<br>
<br>
http://albumcredits.com/zmix</div>
</body>
</html>
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Subject: Re: Zoe Keating in NY Times article.@borisfx.com
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Very eloquently put Todd, but oh so very wrong
:(

On 30 Jan 2013, at 17:40, Todd Elliott <toddbert@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm thinking Eno had it right : "


Well its not really a problem for Mr Eno is it? He can well afford to be so
wise and pragmatic.
The stupid idea that it wasn't like this before rock n roll so it's ok that
it goes back to that... the music blip thing... is silly, U don't want
whale blubber again surely? ( nice analogy BTW)
We had something in the 60s70s and 80's even the 90's... sure there were
some fat cats earning stupid money, hell there still is, but many many many
bands who were out and about earning a bit above minimum wage, were touring
recording and living, yes living off music. Why? because the cuts were ok,
not great, but ok. An artist could expect to make 13% of an album, now it's
more like .03%!!!
All in saying is that sure times change, but why ACCEPT being ripped off by
the distributors...

And I never EVER criticized the music biz... it's the Sellers (Apple and
Spotify exemplify these) who never EVER take any initiative to find new
music, develop artists, work with artists to get them heard... nothing..
they just TAKE, cos theres nothing else....
That CAN change, we did it in 1976 with punk for a while... we can do it
again... Boycott Spotify, Use bandcamp or CDBaby...
You have a choice... it ain't over till the fat lady puts her song on
iTunes.


M



-- 
> *Mark Francombe*
> www.markfrancombe.com
> www.ordoabkhao.com
> http://vimeo.com/user825094
> http://www.looop.no
> twitter @markfrancombe
>

--047d7b2ee30b88ab2b04d4855d4f
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=
=3Dutf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div>Very eloquently put Todd, but oh s=
o very wrong<br></div><div>:(</div><div><br>On 30 Jan 2013, at 17:40, Todd =
Elliott &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:toddbert@gmail.com">toddbert@gmail.com</a>&gt=
; wrote:<br>
<br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>I&#39;m thinking Eno had it right =
: &quot;</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Well its not really a proble=
m for Mr Eno is it? He can well afford to be so wise and pragmatic.=A0</div=
>
<div>The stupid idea that it wasn&#39;t like this before rock n roll so it&=
#39;s ok that it goes back to that... the music blip thing... is silly, U d=
on&#39;t want whale blubber again surely? ( nice analogy BTW)=A0</div><div>
We had something in the 60s70s and 80&#39;s even the 90&#39;s... sure there=
 were some fat cats earning stupid money, hell there still is, but many man=
y many bands who were out and about earning a bit above minimum wage, were =
touring recording and living, yes living off music. Why? because the cuts w=
ere ok, not great, but ok. An artist could expect to make 13% of an album, =
now it&#39;s more like .03%!!!=A0</div>
<div>All in saying is that sure times change, but why ACCEPT being ripped o=
ff by the distributors...</div><div><br></div><div>And I never EVER critici=
zed the music biz... it&#39;s the Sellers (Apple and Spotify exemplify thes=
e) who never EVER take any initiative to find new music, develop artists, w=
ork with artists to get them heard... nothing.. they just TAKE, cos theres =
nothing else....</div>
<div>That CAN change, we did it in 1976 with punk for a while... we can do =
it again... Boycott Spotify, Use bandcamp or CDBaby...=A0</div><div>You hav=
e a choice... it ain&#39;t over till the fat lady puts her song on iTunes.<=
/div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>M</div><div><br></div><div>=A0</div><blo=
ckquote type=3D"cite"><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-=
left:1ex">
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">-=
- <br><i style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(255,255,255);bac=
kground-color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font style=3D"font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-seri=
f" size=3D"4"><u>Mark Francombe</u></font></i><br>



<font size=3D"1"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.markfra=
ncombe.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.markfrancombe.com</a><br style=3D"color:=
rgb(51,0,51)"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.ordoabkhao=
.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.ordoabkhao.com</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,=
51)">



<a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://vimeo.com/user825094" target=
=3D"_blank">http://vimeo.com/user825094</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)"=
><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.looop.no/" target=3D"_b=
lank">http://www.looop.no</a><br>



twitter @markfrancombe<br></font></font></span></div></blockquote></div></d=
iv>
</blockquote></body></html>

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Eno is not god despite our occasional stabs at setting him up as one. I fin=
d his analogy not apt.

The guys "making" whale blubber were not going to persist in doing it once =
the market caved, and no one would continue to be interested in their produ=
ct. If the analogy is to the selling of recordings, not records. i.e. not t=
o a physical product necessarily, then one must point out that the workers =
do continue to be interested in the making (that would be everyone reading =
this), and there continues to be a pool of folks interested in the results.

I don't think it is entirely true that the people who purchase decide value=
. I'm no economist, but surely the economy of music distribution has an ele=
ment of the "race to the bottom" about it.  Amazon's bending of the publish=
ing world to its will is a parallel that has received a lot of attention - =
the real sufferers there are authors.  BTW, to the extent that theft is a "=
purchase", then the value is zero.  Hmm.

But Per makes a compelling case for what I've seen Chris Cutler call a "pos=
t-musical" world... well, maybe that isn't what Chris means by the term, bu=
t it sounds good... I have not really thought much about that. If that is w=
here we are headed or have arrived, I will hope there remains a market at l=
east sufficient to support the undeniable geniuses of the world. I will nev=
er see Robert Wyatt perform, and probably never see a movie with a soundtra=
ck he did, but I sure would like to hear some new whale blubber from him.

Hal Dean

From: Todd Elliott [mailto:toddbert@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 11:41 AM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Zoe Keating in NY Times article.@borisfx.com

I'm thinking Eno had it right : ""I think records were just a little bubble=
 through time and those who made a living from them for a while were lucky.=
 There is no reason why anyone should have made so much money from selling =
records except that everything was right for this period of time. I always =
knew it would run out sooner or later. It couldn't last, and now it's runni=
ng out. I don't particularly care that it is and like the way things are go=
ing. The record age was just a blip. It was a bit like if you had a source =
of whale blubber in the 1840s and it could be used as fuel. Before gas came=
 along, if you traded in whale blubber, you were the richest man on Earth. =
Then gas came along and you'd be stuck with your whale blubber. Sorry mate =
- history's moving along. Recorded music equals whale blubber. Eventually, =
something else will replace it."

Some suggest live performance, others working on soundtracks, etc; but fund=
amentally the people who purchase (or don't) something decide its value. I'=
m thankful for every small dollar I've made selling tunes (and it is no liv=
ing at all, nor is it intended to be one), but the reality is that there ar=
e thousands of fish like me swimming in what is already a very small pond. =
Music is incredibly easy to distribute (got a working internet connection? =
DONE), and the surfeit of choice means that 'being heard' in any sense of t=
he word is a challenge, let alone getting paid. Blaming the record industry=
 is a fool's game-- they have always been out for themselves-- there was a =
*very* narrow window when you could make money off recorded music-- it's co=
ming to an end, and the best that can be done now is to figure out how to m=
ake money from one's music in other ways.

T

On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 7:16 AM, mark francombe <mark@markfrancombe.com<mai=
lto:mark@markfrancombe.com>> wrote:
@Tyler, its us old folks who used to earn a wage from being moderately succ=
essful musicians that are moaning about its is now compared to how it used =
to be. The big difference between then and now is that the companies sellin=
g you music (im not talking about torrents or pirate mp3s, thats piracy, an=
d has always been there, remember bootleg tapes?) are paying the artists in=
finitesimal amounts compared to what they used to. It doesnt make any sense=
 to me that now, there are no manufacturing costs, and all marketing is vis=
 the net, social media etc, there IS no CDs or Vinyl albums to pay for, the=
re are no posters flyers or adverts to design and print, its all online. (I=
 will concede that the big site probably spend millions on site development=
). An thats it,
As Per says, the shift HAS changed, there no going back to the old days, do=
wnloads and streaming are here to stay, you might as well get used to it...=
 BUT, and its a fucking HUGE BUTT...
THERE NO REASON MUSICIANS SHOULD STAND UP FOR THIER RIGHTS!!!

The record companies before, at least came from a standpoint of loving musi=
c, now the music business is being strangled by the distributors (Apple, Sp=
otify etc) Its of course ther own fault for not jumping in quick and buildi=
ng their own online music services, and spent too much time stamping on Nap=
ster instead... Now the CEO of Napster is a Board member of Spotify and hes=
 considered a legit businessman... Go figure!

That is all..

Mark

On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com<mailto:per=
boysen@gmail.com>> wrote:
My guess is that "the new paradigm" is not happening to digital sales
of music but rather to cultural norms and and people's ways of
relating to music. We can already see the change: fewer people value
to own music like old days "collectors" did. One is not motivated to
pay for music just because it is music. However, the much older role
for music in the society, when music serves a specific purpose, is
still being regarded as something worth to pay for. Like if you go out
to dance you aren't bothered paying for an entrance ticked, or if
going to a concert. An even more obvious example is the rapidly
growing media that uses music for a very specific purpose - films,
games, presentations - everyone today agrees to pay for this and music
goes with the package. I think that we are repelling back to where it
has been for most of mankind's history; music mostly exists for a
specific purpose, to play a role in a specific context. The period
where music was just one consumable product among others on a market
is about to end.

Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.perboysen.com<http://www.perboysen.com>
http://www.youtube.com/perboysen


On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 2:35 PM, Tyler <programmer651@comcast.net<mailto:pr=
ogrammer651@comcast.net>> wrote:
> Why would you call Itunes a rapist? I don't remember an artist being trea=
ted unfairly by it.
> Free mp3 sites? Maybe! But Itunes? No!
> Tyler Z
> On Wed, 30 Jan 2013 04:32:52 -0800, Rick Walker wrote:
>
>
>>On 1/29/2013 9:39 PM, Emile Tobenfeld (a.k.a Dr. T) wrote:
>>>http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/29/business/media/streaming-shakes-up-mus=
ic-industrys-model-for-royalties.html?ref=3Dus
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>*This is one of the most depressing articles I've read in a long time.**
>>>**
>>>**Does anyone remember when Colonel Tom Parker was revealed to have
>>>cut a deal with Elvis Presley **
>>>*
>>*so that he would receive a usurious 50% of ALL money that Elvis made?**
>>**
>>**It was unprecedented and the rest of the music business, artists and
>>the public recoiled heavily from the news (though cynics always pointed *=
*
>>**out that 50% of $40 million dollars was still vastly better than 0% of
>>nothing).**
>>**
>>**Well folks,   iTunes,  one of the greatest rapists of musical
>>artistry, in the world charges 50% of ALL DOWNLOAD SALES.**
>>**
>>**And they are the good guys compared to Pandora and Spotify, whose
>>statistics make iTunes look like positive artistic **
>>**philanthropists.**
>>
>>A new paradigm of selling digital content online needs to assert
>>itself.   One that is fair to artists and all the energy
>>and time and money they spend trying to create art for people.
>>
>>There are rumors of this coming.    I can't wait.
>>
>>Rick Walker
>>Fuck iTunes!    Fuck Spotify!     Fuck Pandora!
>>Fuck the dominant paradigm that says that downloading other people's
>>music is okay as long as you get away with it.
>>Theft if Theft, Folks!
>>*



--
Mark Francombe
www.markfrancombe.com<http://www.markfrancombe.com/>
www.ordoabkhao.com<http://www.ordoabkhao.com/>
http://vimeo.com/user825094
http://www.looop.no<http://www.looop.no/>
twitter @markfrancombe
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/



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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Eno is not god despite ou=
r occasional stabs at setting him up as one. I find his analogy not apt.<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">The guys &#8220;making&#8=
221; whale blubber were not going to persist in doing it once the market ca=
ved, and no one would continue to be interested in their product. If
 the analogy is to the selling of recordings, not records. i.e. not to a ph=
ysical product necessarily, then one must point out that the workers do con=
tinue to be interested in the making (that would be everyone reading this),=
 and there continues to be a pool
 of folks interested in the results. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I don&#8217;t think it is=
 entirely true that the people who purchase decide value. I&#8217;m no econ=
omist, but surely the economy of music distribution has an element of
 the &#8220;race to the bottom&#8221; about it. &nbsp;Amazon&#8217;s bendin=
g of the publishing world to its will is a parallel that has received a lot=
 of attention &#8211; the real sufferers there are authors. &nbsp;BTW, to t=
he extent that theft is a &#8220;purchase&#8221;, then the value is zero.&n=
bsp; Hmm.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">But Per makes a compellin=
g case for what I&#8217;ve seen Chris Cutler call a &#8220;post-musical&#82=
21; world&#8230; well, maybe that isn&#8217;t what Chris means by the term,=
 but it sounds
 good&#8230; I have not really thought much about that. If that is where we=
 are headed or have arrived, I will hope there remains a market at least su=
fficient to support the undeniable geniuses of the world. I will never see =
Robert Wyatt perform, and probably never
 see a movie with a soundtrack he did, but I sure would like to hear some n=
ew whale blubber from him.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Palatino Linotype&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Hal Dean<o:p></o:=
p></span></i></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Todd Ell=
iott [mailto:toddbert@gmail.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 30, 2013 11:41 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Zoe Keating in NY Times article.@borisfx.com<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I'm thinking Eno had it right : &quot;<span style=3D=
"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;colo=
r:#333333;background:white">&quot;I think records were just a little bubble=
 through time and those who made a living from them for a while were
 lucky. There is no reason why anyone should have made so much money from s=
elling records except that everything was right for this period of time. I =
always knew it would run out sooner or later. It couldn't last, and now it'=
s running out. I don't particularly
 care that it is and like the way things are going. The record age was just=
 a blip. It was a bit like if you had a source of whale blubber in the 1840=
s and it could be used as fuel. Before gas came along, if you traded in wha=
le blubber, you were the richest
 man on Earth. Then gas came along and you'd be stuck with your whale blubb=
er. Sorry mate &#8211; history's moving along. Recorded music equals whale =
blubber. Eventually, something else will replace it.&quot;</span><o:p></o:p=
></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#333333">Some suggest live performan=
ce, others working on soundtracks, etc; but fundamentally the people who pu=
rchase (or don't) something decide its value. I'm thankful
 for every small dollar I've made selling tunes (and it is no living at all=
, nor is it intended to be one), but the reality is that there are thousand=
s of fish like me swimming in what is already a very small pond. Music is i=
ncredibly easy to distribute (got
 a working internet connection? DONE), and the surfeit of choice means that=
 'being heard' in any sense of the word is a challenge, let alone getting p=
aid. Blaming the record industry is a fool's game-- they have always been o=
ut for themselves-- there was a
 *very* narrow window when you could make money off recorded music-- it's c=
oming to an end, and the best that can be done now is to figure out how to =
make money from one's music in other ways.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#333333">T&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 7:16 AM, mark francombe &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:mark@markfrancombe.com" target=3D"_blank">mark@markfranco=
mbe.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">@Tyler, its us old folks who used to earn a wage fro=
m being&nbsp;moderately&nbsp;successful musicians that are moaning about it=
s is now compared to how it used to be. The big difference&nbsp;between&nbs=
p;then and now is that the companies selling you music
 (im not talking about torrents or pirate mp3s, thats piracy, and has alway=
s been there, remember bootleg tapes?) are paying the artists&nbsp;infinite=
simal&nbsp;amounts compared to what they used to. It doesnt make any sense =
to me that now, there are no manufacturing
 costs, and all marketing is vis the net, social media etc, there IS no CDs=
 or Vinyl albums to pay for, there are no posters flyers or adverts to desi=
gn and print, its all online. (I will concede that the big site probably sp=
end millions on site development).
 An thats it,&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">As Per says, the shift HAS changed, there no going b=
ack to the old days, downloads and streaming are here to stay, you might as=
 well get used to it... BUT, and its a fucking HUGE BUTT...&nbsp;<br>
THERE NO REASON&nbsp;MUSICIANS&nbsp;SHOULD STAND UP FOR THIER RIGHTS!!!<br>
<br>
The record companies before, at least came from a standpoint of loving musi=
c, now the music business is being strangled by the distributors (Apple, Sp=
otify etc) Its of course ther own fault for not jumping in quick and buildi=
ng their own online music services,
 and spent too much time stamping on Napster instead... Now the CEO of Naps=
ter is a Board member of Spotify and hes considered a legit&nbsp;businessma=
n... Go figure!<br>
<br>
That is all..<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Mark<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Per Boysen &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:perboysen@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">perboysen@gmail.com</a=
>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">My guess is that &quot;the new paradigm&quot; is not=
 happening to digital sales<br>
of music but rather to cultural norms and and people's ways of<br>
relating to music. We can already see the change: fewer people value<br>
to own music like old days &quot;collectors&quot; did. One is not motivated=
 to<br>
pay for music just because it is music. However, the much older role<br>
for music in the society, when music serves a specific purpose, is<br>
still being regarded as something worth to pay for. Like if you go out<br>
to dance you aren't bothered paying for an entrance ticked, or if<br>
going to a concert. An even more obvious example is the rapidly<br>
growing media that uses music for a very specific purpose - films,<br>
games, presentations - everyone today agrees to pay for this and music<br>
goes with the package. I think that we are repelling back to where it<br>
has been for most of mankind's history; music mostly exists for a<br>
specific purpose, to play a role in a specific context. The period<br>
where music was just one consumable product among others on a market<br>
is about to end.<br>
<br>
Greetings from Sweden<br>
<span style=3D"color:#888888"><br>
Per Boysen<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.perboysen.com" target=3D"_blank">www.perboysen.com</a=
><br>
<a href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/perboysen" target=3D"_blank">http://www.y=
outube.com/perboysen</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<br>
On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 2:35 PM, Tyler &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:programmer651@=
comcast.net" target=3D"_blank">programmer651@comcast.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; Why would you call Itunes a rapist? I don't remember an artist being t=
reated unfairly by it.<br>
&gt; Free mp3 sites? Maybe! But Itunes? No!<br>
&gt; Tyler Z<br>
&gt; On Wed, 30 Jan 2013 04:32:52 -0800, Rick Walker wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;On 1/29/2013 9:39 PM, Emile Tobenfeld (a.k.a Dr. T) wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<a href=3D"http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/29/business/media/str=
eaming-shakes-up-music-industrys-model-for-royalties.html?ref=3Dus" target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/29/business/media/streaming-shak=
es-up-music-industrys-model-for-royalties.html?ref=3Dus</a><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;*This is one of the most depressing articles I've read in a lon=
g time.**<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;**<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;**Does anyone remember when Colonel Tom Parker was revealed to =
have<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;cut a deal with Elvis Presley **<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;*<br>
&gt;&gt;*so that he would receive a usurious 50% of ALL money that Elvis ma=
de?**<br>
&gt;&gt;**<br>
&gt;&gt;**It was unprecedented and the rest of the music business, artists =
and<br>
&gt;&gt;the public recoiled heavily from the news (though cynics always poi=
nted **<br>
&gt;&gt;**out that 50% of $40 million dollars was still vastly better than =
0% of<br>
&gt;&gt;nothing).**<br>
&gt;&gt;**<br>
&gt;&gt;**Well folks, &nbsp; iTunes, &nbsp;one of the greatest rapists of m=
usical<br>
&gt;&gt;artistry, in the world charges 50% of ALL DOWNLOAD SALES.**<br>
&gt;&gt;**<br>
&gt;&gt;**And they are the good guys compared to Pandora and Spotify, whose=
<br>
&gt;&gt;statistics make iTunes look like positive artistic **<br>
&gt;&gt;**philanthropists.**<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;A new paradigm of selling digital content online needs to assert<br=
>
&gt;&gt;itself. &nbsp; One that is fair to artists and all the energy<br>
&gt;&gt;and time and money they spend trying to create art for people.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;There are rumors of this coming. &nbsp; &nbsp;I can't wait.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;Rick Walker<br>
&gt;&gt;Fuck iTunes! &nbsp; &nbsp;Fuck Spotify! &nbsp; &nbsp; Fuck Pandora!=
<br>
&gt;&gt;Fuck the dominant paradigm that says that downloading other people'=
s<br>
&gt;&gt;music is okay as long as you get away with it.<br>
&gt;&gt;Theft if Theft, Folks!<br>
&gt;&gt;*<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br clear=3D"all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"hoenzb"><span style=3D"color:#888888"=
>-- </span></span><span style=3D"color:#888888"><br>
</span><span class=3D"hoenzb"><i><u><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:white;background=
:black">Mark Francombe</span></u></i></span><span style=3D"color:#888888"><=
br>
</span><span class=3D"hoenzb"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;color:#888888"=
><a href=3D"http://www.markfrancombe.com/" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D=
"color:#330033">www.markfrancombe.com</span></a></span></span><span style=
=3D"font-size:7.5pt;color:#330033"><br>
</span><span class=3D"hoenzb"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;color:#888888"=
><a href=3D"http://www.ordoabkhao.com/" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"co=
lor:#330033">www.ordoabkhao.com</span></a></span></span><span style=3D"font=
-size:7.5pt;color:#330033"><br>
</span><span class=3D"hoenzb"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;color:#888888"=
><a href=3D"http://vimeo.com/user825094" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"c=
olor:#330033">http://vimeo.com/user825094</span></a></span></span><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:7.5pt;color:#330033"><br>
</span><span class=3D"hoenzb"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;color:#888888"=
><a href=3D"http://www.looop.no/" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:#3=
30033">http://www.looop.no</span></a></span></span><span style=3D"font-size=
:7.5pt;color:#888888"><br>
<span class=3D"hoenzb">twitter @markfrancombe</span><br>
<span class=3D"hoenzb"><a href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00=
/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/</a></span><=
/span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br clear=3D"all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">-- <br>
<a href=3D"http://toaster.bandcamp.com" target=3D"_blank">http://toaster.ba=
ndcamp.com</a>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
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Well, the quote says "Recorded music...".

Charles is right. And rave on Mark.

Hal Dean

From: Charles Zwicky [mailto:cazwicky@earthlink.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 11:58 AM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Zoe Keating in NY Times article.@borisfx.com

Except that Eno is specifically referring to records... It's not as though =
MUSIC isn't being consumed...

At 8:40 AM -0800 1/30/13, Todd Elliott wrote:
I'm thinking Eno had it right : ""I think records were just a little bubble=
 through time and those who made a living from them for a while were lucky.=
 There is no reason why anyone should have made so much money from selling =
records except that everything was right for this period of time. I always =
knew it would run out sooner or later. It couldn't last, and now it's runni=
ng out. I don't particularly care that it is and like the way things are go=
ing. The record age was just a blip. It was a bit like if you had a source =
of whale blubber in the 1840s and it could be used as fuel. Before gas came=
 along, if you traded in whale blubber, you were the richest man on Earth. =
Then gas came along and you'd be stuck with your whale blubber. Sorry mate =
- history's moving along. Recorded music equals whale blubber. Eventually, =
something else will replace it."

Some suggest live performance, others working on soundtracks, etc; but fund=
amentally the people who purchase (or don't) something decide its value. I'=
m thankful for every small dollar I've made selling tunes (and it is no liv=
ing at all, nor is it intended to be one), but the reality is that there ar=
e thousands of fish like me swimming in what is already a very small pond. =
Music is incredibly easy to distribute (got a working internet connection? =
DONE), and the surfeit of choice means that 'being heard' in any sense of t=
he word is a challenge, let alone getting paid. Blaming the record industry=
 is a fool's game-- they have always been out for themselves-- there was a =
*very* narrow window when you could make money off recorded music-- it's co=
ming to an end, and the best that can be done now is to figure out how to m=
ake money from one's music in other ways.

T

On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 7:16 AM, mark francombe <mark@markfrancombe.com<mai=
lto:mark@markfrancombe.com>> wrote:
@Tyler, its us old folks who used to earn a wage from being moderately succ=
essful musicians that are moaning about its is now compared to how it used =
to be. The big difference between then and now is that the companies sellin=
g you music (im not talking about torrents or pirate mp3s, thats piracy, an=
d has always been there, remember bootleg tapes?) are paying the artists in=
finitesimal amounts compared to what they used to. It doesnt make any sense=
 to me that now, there are no manufacturing costs, and all marketing is vis=
 the net, social media etc, there IS no CDs or Vinyl albums to pay for, the=
re are no posters flyers or adverts to design and print, its all online. (I=
 will concede that the big site probably spend millions on site development=
). An thats it,
As Per says, the shift HAS changed, there no going back to the old days, do=
wnloads and streaming are here to stay, you might as well get used to it...=
 BUT, and its a fucking HUGE BUTT...
THERE NO REASON MUSICIANS SHOULD STAND UP FOR THIER RIGHTS!!!

The record companies before, at least came from a standpoint of loving musi=
c, now the music business is being strangled by the distributors (Apple, Sp=
otify etc) Its of course ther own fault for not jumping in quick and buildi=
ng their own online music services, and spent too much time stamping on Nap=
ster instead... Now the CEO of Napster is a Board member of Spotify and hes=
 considered a legit businessman... Go figure!

That is all..

Mark

On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com<mailto:per=
boysen@gmail.com>> wrote:
My guess is that "the new paradigm" is not happening to digital sales
of music but rather to cultural norms and and people's ways of
relating to music. We can already see the change: fewer people value
to own music like old days "collectors" did. One is not motivated to
pay for music just because it is music. However, the much older role
for music in the society, when music serves a specific purpose, is
still being regarded as something worth to pay for. Like if you go out
to dance you aren't bothered paying for an entrance ticked, or if
going to a concert. An even more obvious example is the rapidly
growing media that uses music for a very specific purpose - films,
games, presentations - everyone today agrees to pay for this and music
goes with the package. I think that we are repelling back to where it
has been for most of mankind's history; music mostly exists for a
specific purpose, to play a role in a specific context. The period
where music was just one consumable product among others on a market
is about to end.

Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.perboysen.com<http://www.perboysen.com>
http://www.youtube.com/perboysen


On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 2:35 PM, Tyler <programmer651@comcast.net<mailto:pr=
ogrammer651@comcast.net>> wrote:
> Why would you call Itunes a rapist? I don't remember an artist being trea=
ted unfairly by it.
> Free mp3 sites? Maybe! But Itunes? No!
> Tyler Z
> On Wed, 30 Jan 2013 04:32:52 -0800, Rick Walker wrote:
>
>
>>On 1/29/2013 9:39 PM, Emile Tobenfeld (a.k.a Dr. T) wrote:
>>>http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/29/business/media/streaming-shakes-up-mus=
ic-industrys-model-for-royalties.html?ref=3Dus
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>*This is one of the most depressing articles I've read in a long time.**
>>>**
>>>**Does anyone remember when Colonel Tom Parker was revealed to have
>>>cut a deal with Elvis Presley **
>>>*
>>*so that he would receive a usurious 50% of ALL money that Elvis made?**
>>**
>>**It was unprecedented and the rest of the music business, artists and
>>the public recoiled heavily from the news (though cynics always pointed *=
*
>>**out that 50% of $40 million dollars was still vastly better than 0% of
>>nothing).**
>>**
>>**Well folks, iTunes, one of the greatest rapists of musical
>>artistry, in the world charges 50% of ALL DOWNLOAD SALES.**
>>**
>>**And they are the good guys compared to Pandora and Spotify, whose
>>statistics make iTunes look like positive artistic **
>>**philanthropists.**
>>
>>A new paradigm of selling digital content online needs to assert
>>itself. One that is fair to artists and all the energy
>>and time and money they spend trying to create art for people.
>>
>>There are rumors of this coming. I can't wait.
>>
>>Rick Walker
>>Fuck iTunes! Fuck Spotify! Fuck Pandora!
>>Fuck the dominant paradigm that says that downloading other people's
>>music is okay as long as you get away with it.
>>Theft if Theft, Folks!
>>*


--
Mark Francombe
www.markfrancombe.com<http://www.markfrancombe.com/>
www.ordoabkhao.com<http://www.ordoabkhao.com/>
http://vimeo.com/user825094
http://www.looop.no<http://www.looop.no/>
twitter @markfrancombe
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/


--
http://toaster.bandcamp.com



--

...
http://www.zmix.net

http://albumcredits.com/zmix

--_000_F3758BD5E05F2049BBC449788EC936AF1799D7F1WCUXCH07PASSHEL_
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<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"=
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<meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Word 14 (filtered medium)">
<title>Re: Zoe Keating in NY Times article.@borisfx.com</title>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Well, the quote says &#82=
20;</span>Recorded music&#8230;&#8221;.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Charles is right. And rave on Mark. <span style=3D"f=
ont-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;colo=
r:#1F497D">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Palatino Linotype&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Hal Dean<o:p></o:=
p></span></i></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Palatino Linotype&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></i></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Charles =
Zwicky [mailto:cazwicky@earthlink.net]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 30, 2013 11:58 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Zoe Keating in NY Times article.@borisfx.com<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Except that Eno is specifically referring to records=
... It's not as though MUSIC isn't being consumed...<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">At 8:40 AM -0800 1/30/13, Todd Elliott wrote:<o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I'm thinking Eno had it right : &quot;&quot;I think =
records were just a little bubble through time and those who made a living =
from them for a while were lucky. There is no reason why anyone should have=
 made so much money from selling records except
 that everything was right for this period of time. I always knew it would =
run out sooner or later. It couldn't last, and now it's running out. I don'=
t particularly care that it is and like the way things are going. The recor=
d age was just a blip. It was a
 bit like if you had a source of whale blubber in the 1840s and it could be=
 used as fuel. Before gas came along, if you traded in whale blubber, you w=
ere the richest man on Earth. Then gas came along and you'd be stuck with y=
our whale blubber. Sorry mate -
 history's moving along. Recorded music equals whale blubber. Eventually, s=
omething else will replace it.&quot;<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;;color:#333333">Some suggest live performance, others workin=
g on soundtracks, etc; but fundamentally the people who purchase (or don't)=
 something decide its value. I'm thankful for every small
 dollar I've made selling tunes (and it is no living at all, nor is it inte=
nded to be one), but the reality is that there are thousands of fish like m=
e swimming in what is already a very small pond. Music is incredibly easy t=
o distribute (got a working internet
 connection? DONE), and the surfeit of choice means that 'being heard' in a=
ny sense of the word is a challenge, let alone getting paid. Blaming the re=
cord industry is a fool's game-- they have always been out for themselves--=
 there was a *very* narrow window
 when you could make money off recorded music-- it's coming to an end, and =
the best that can be done now is to figure out how to make money from one's=
 music in other ways.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;;color:#333333">T</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 7:16 AM, mark francombe &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:mark@markfrancombe.com">mark@markfrancombe.com</a>&gt; wr=
ote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">@Tyler, its us old folks who used to earn a wage fro=
m being moderately successful musicians that are moaning about its is now c=
ompared to how it used to be. The big difference between then and now is th=
at the companies selling you music
 (im not talking about torrents or pirate mp3s, thats piracy, and has alway=
s been there, remember bootleg tapes?) are paying the artists infinitesimal=
 amounts compared to what they used to. It doesnt make any sense to me that=
 now, there are no manufacturing
 costs, and all marketing is vis the net, social media etc, there IS no CDs=
 or Vinyl albums to pay for, there are no posters flyers or adverts to desi=
gn and print, its all online. (I will concede that the big site probably sp=
end millions on site development).
 An thats it,<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">As Per says, the shift HAS changed, there no going b=
ack to the old days, downloads and streaming are here to stay, you might as=
 well get used to it... BUT, and its a fucking HUGE BUTT...<br>
THERE NO REASON MUSICIANS SHOULD STAND UP FOR THIER RIGHTS!!!<br>
<br>
The record companies before, at least came from a standpoint of loving musi=
c, now the music business is being strangled by the distributors (Apple, Sp=
otify etc) Its of course ther own fault for not jumping in quick and buildi=
ng their own online music services,
 and spent too much time stamping on Napster instead... Now the CEO of Naps=
ter is a Board member of Spotify and hes considered a legit businessman... =
Go figure!<br>
<br>
That is all..<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Mark<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Per Boysen &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:perboysen@gmail.com">perboysen@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">My guess is that &quot;the new paradigm&quot; is not=
 happening to digital sales<br>
of music but rather to cultural norms and and people's ways of<br>
relating to music. We can already see the change: fewer people value<br>
to own music like old days &quot;collectors&quot; did. One is not motivated=
 to<br>
pay for music just because it is music. However, the much older role<br>
for music in the society, when music serves a specific purpose, is<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">still being regarded as something worth to pay for. =
Like if you go out<br>
to dance you aren't bothered paying for an entrance ticked, or if<br>
going to a concert. An even more obvious example is the rapidly<br>
growing media that uses music for a very specific purpose - films,<br>
games, presentations - everyone today agrees to pay for this and music<br>
goes with the package. I think that we are repelling back to where it<br>
has been for most of mankind's history; music mostly exists for a<br>
specific purpose, to play a role in a specific context. The period<br>
where music was just one consumable product among others on a market<br>
is about to end.<br>
<br>
Greetings from Sweden<br>
<span style=3D"color:#888888"><br>
Per Boysen<br>
</span><a href=3D"http://www.perboysen.com"><span style=3D"color:#888888">w=
ww.perboysen.com</span></a><span style=3D"color:#888888"><br>
</span><a href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/perboysen"><span style=3D"color:#8=
88888">http://www.youtube.com/perboysen</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 2:35 PM, Tyler &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:programmer651@=
comcast.net">programmer651@comcast.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; Why would you call Itunes a rapist? I don't remember an artist being t=
reated unfairly by it.<br>
&gt; Free mp3 sites? Maybe! But Itunes? No!<br>
&gt; Tyler Z<br>
&gt; On Wed, 30 Jan 2013 04:32:52 -0800, Rick Walker wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;On 1/29/2013 9:39 PM, Emile Tobenfeld (a.k.a Dr. T) wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<a href=3D"http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/29/business/media/str=
eaming-shakes-up-music-industrys-model-for-royalties.html?ref=3Dus">http://=
www.nytimes.com/2013/01/29/business/media/streaming-shakes-up-music-industr=
ys-model-for-royalties.html?ref=3Dus</a><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;*This is one of the most depressing articles I've read in a lon=
g time.**<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;**<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;**Does anyone remember when Colonel Tom Parker was revealed to =
have<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;cut a deal with Elvis Presley **<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;*<br>
&gt;&gt;*so that he would receive a usurious 50% of ALL money that Elvis ma=
de?**<br>
&gt;&gt;**<br>
&gt;&gt;**It was unprecedented and the rest of the music business, artists =
and<br>
&gt;&gt;the public recoiled heavily from the news (though cynics always poi=
nted **<br>
&gt;&gt;**out that 50% of $40 million dollars was still vastly better than =
0% of<br>
&gt;&gt;nothing).**<br>
&gt;&gt;**<br>
&gt;&gt;**Well folks, iTunes, one of the greatest rapists of musical<br>
&gt;&gt;artistry, in the world charges 50% of ALL DOWNLOAD SALES.**<br>
&gt;&gt;**<br>
&gt;&gt;**And they are the good guys compared to Pandora and Spotify, whose=
<br>
&gt;&gt;statistics make iTunes look like positive artistic **<br>
&gt;&gt;**philanthropists.**<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;A new paradigm of selling digital content online needs to assert<br=
>
&gt;&gt;itself. One that is fair to artists and all the energy<br>
&gt;&gt;and time and money they spend trying to create art for people.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;There are rumors of this coming. I can't wait.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;Rick Walker<br>
&gt;&gt;Fuck iTunes! Fuck Spotify! Fuck Pandora!<br>
&gt;&gt;Fuck the dominant paradigm that says that downloading other people'=
s<br>
&gt;&gt;music is okay as long as you get away with it.<br>
&gt;&gt;Theft if Theft, Folks!<br>
&gt;&gt;*<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#888888">--<br>
</span><i><u><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;color:#888888">Mark Francombe<=
/span></u></i><span style=3D"color:#888888"><br>
</span><a href=3D"http://www.markfrancombe.com/"><span style=3D"font-size:7=
.5pt;color:#888888">www.markfrancombe.com</span></a><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:7.5pt;color:#888888"><br>
</span><a href=3D"http://www.ordoabkhao.com/"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5p=
t;color:#888888">www.ordoabkhao.com</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:7.5p=
t;color:#888888"><br>
</span><a href=3D"http://vimeo.com/user825094"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5=
pt;color:#888888">http://vimeo.com/user825094</span></a><span style=3D"font=
-size:7.5pt;color:#888888"><br>
</span><a href=3D"http://www.looop.no/"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;colo=
r:#888888">http://www.looop.no</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;col=
or:#888888"><br>
twitter @markfrancombe<br>
</span><a href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/"><span style=
=3D"font-size:7.5pt;color:#888888">http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N0=
0/</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">--<br>
<a href=3D"http://toaster.bandcamp.com">http://toaster.bandcamp.com</a><o:p=
></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
...<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.zmix.net">http://www.zmix.net</a><br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://albumcredits.com/zmix">http://albumcredits.com/zmix</a><o=
:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Dean, Hal <HDean@wcupa.edu> wrote:

>  Eno is not god despite our occasional stabs at setting him up as one. I
> find his analogy not apt.
>

I don't think he's a god (I mean, have you heard him sing? Yow.). I find
his comparison astute.


> The guys =93making=94 whale blubber were not going to persist in doing it=
 once
> the market caved, and no one would continue to be interested in their
> product. If the analogy is to the selling of recordings, not records. i.e=
.
> not to a physical product necessarily, then one must point out that the
> workers do continue to be interested in the making (that would be everyon=
e
> reading this), and there continues to be a pool of folks interested in th=
e
> results.
>

They may be interested in *hearing* the results, but the number of people
interested in *paying* for them is dwindling, and continues to dwindle.


> I don=92t think it is entirely true that the people who purchase decide
> value. I=92m no economist, but surely the economy of music distribution h=
as
> an element of the =93race to the bottom=94 about it.  Amazon=92s bending =
of the
> publishing world to its will is a parallel that has received a lot of
> attention =96 the real sufferers there are authors.  BTW, to the extent t=
hat
> theft is a =93purchase=94, then the value is zero.  Hmm.
>

Correct. If no one is willing to pay for something, and they can get it for
free, the value of it is zero. It's illiquid. I can say my new record is
$100, but if no one buys it at that price, it has no value. Outside of a
select circle of folk, people seem to be throwing their discretionary
income at other things.

But Per makes a compelling case for what I=92ve seen Chris Cutler call a
> =93post-musical=94 world=85 well, maybe that isn=92t what Chris means by =
the term,
> but it sounds good=85 I have not really thought much about that. If that =
is
> where we are headed or have arrived, I will hope there remains a market a=
t
> least sufficient to support the undeniable geniuses of the world.
>

There probably will; though the definition of genius may vary. Amanda
Palmer, who I don't consider any sort of genius, made a million bucks by
rattling a tin cup on the internet. Any 'revolution' in the way we consume
music is going to have to come with the understanding that almost anyone
can get a recording of what you make for free, and will probably listen to
it in a manner that will make you shudder (over laptop speakers from a
youtube stream, over earbuds in a poor mp3 rip, etc). The notion that
people will pay for high quality, or some tangible format, or something
like that is wrong-- outside of a small group of nerds, no one cares. Maybe
that small group of nerds can sustain you, but they are fickle.

'Getting music out there' is very easy to do. Getting people to pay for it
is only going to get harder. You can ask nicely for money for your recorded
music, but that horse got out of the barn years ago, and is probably
married and living in a different state.

 On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 7:16 AM, mark francombe <mark@markfrancombe.com>
> wrote:
>

The record companies before, at least came from a standpoint of loving
> music, now the music business is being strangled by the distributors
> (Apple, Spotify etc) Its of course ther own fault for not jumping in quic=
k
> and building their own online music services, and spent too much time
> stamping on Napster instead... Now the CEO of Napster is a Board member o=
f
> Spotify and hes considered a legit businessman... Go figure!


Nope. Record companies have always been in the business to make money (even
Dischord, or whatever your favorite punk rock label is; they at least want
to cover their own expenses, which involves selling things for cash). They
got better at it over time (pop music is now largely a series of formulas,
with as many as 8 songwriters working on something). The basic, original
business model of record companies relied on them controlling distribution.
When people figured out how to (re)distribute it themselves, they decided
it wasn't worth as much as the record companies were charging. When it
became easy to get for free, they decided it was free.

T

--20cf303dd77222a12604d4860d84
Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Dean, =
Hal <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:HDean@wcupa.edu" target=3D"_bla=
nk">HDean@wcupa.edu</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"=
>






<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Eno is not god despite ou=
r occasional stabs at setting him up as one. I find his analogy not apt.</s=
pan></p>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I don&#39;t think he&#39;s a g=
od (I mean, have you heard him sing? Yow.). I find his comparison astute.=
=A0</div><div>=A0<span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;font-size:11pt">=A0</span></div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"p=
urple"><div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">The guys =93making=94 wha=
le blubber were not going to persist in doing it once the market caved, and=
 no one would continue to be interested in their product. If
 the analogy is to the selling of recordings, not records. i.e. not to a ph=
ysical product necessarily, then one must point out that the workers do con=
tinue to be interested in the making (that would be everyone reading this),=
 and there continues to be a pool
 of folks interested in the results.</span></p></div></div></blockquote><di=
v><br></div><div>They may be interested in <b>hearing</b> the results, but =
the number of people interested in <b>paying</b> for them is dwindling, and=
 continues to dwindle.</div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:11pt">=A0</span></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN=
-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">I don=92t think it is ent=
irely true that the people who purchase decide value. I=92m no economist, b=
ut surely the economy of music distribution has an element of
 the =93race to the bottom=94 about it. =A0Amazon=92s bending of the publis=
hing world to its will is a parallel that has received a lot of attention =
=96 the real sufferers there are authors. =A0BTW, to the extent that theft =
is a =93purchase=94, then the value is zero.=A0 Hmm.</span></p>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Correct. If no one is willing =
to pay for something, and they can get it for free, the value of it is zero=
. It&#39;s illiquid. I can say my new record is $100, but if no one buys it=
 at that price, it has no value. Outside of a select circle of folk, people=
 seem to be throwing their discretionary income at other things.</div>
<div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex=
;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"b=
lue" vlink=3D"purple"><div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">But Per makes a compellin=
g case for what I=92ve seen Chris Cutler call a =93post-musical=94 world=85=
 well, maybe that isn=92t what Chris means by the term, but it sounds
 good=85 I have not really thought much about that. If that is where we are=
 headed or have arrived, I will hope there remains a market at least suffic=
ient to support the undeniable geniuses of the world. </span></p></div></di=
v>
</blockquote><div><br></div><div>There probably will; though the definition=
 of genius may vary. Amanda Palmer, who I don&#39;t consider any sort of ge=
nius, made a million bucks by rattling a tin cup on the internet. Any &#39;=
revolution&#39; in the way we consume music is going to have to come with t=
he understanding that almost anyone can get a recording of what you make fo=
r free, and will probably listen to it in a manner that will make you shudd=
er (over laptop speakers from a youtube stream, over earbuds in a poor mp3 =
rip, etc). The notion that people will pay for high quality, or some tangib=
le format, or something like that is wrong-- outside of a small group of ne=
rds, no one cares. Maybe that small group of nerds can sustain you, but the=
y are fickle.=A0</div>
<div><br></div><div>&#39;Getting music out there&#39; is very easy to do. G=
etting people to pay for it is only going to get harder. You can ask nicely=
 for money for your recorded music, but that horse got out of the barn year=
s ago, and is probably married and living in a different state.</div>
<div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex=
;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"b=
lue" vlink=3D"purple"><div><div class=3D"h5"><div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 7:16 AM, mark francombe &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:mark@markfrancombe.com" target=3D"_blank">mark@markfranco=
mbe.com</a>&gt; wrote:</p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><=
br>
</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;b=
order-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:s=
olid;padding-left:1ex">The record companies before, at least came from a st=
andpoint of loving music, now the music business is being strangled by the =
distributors (Apple, Spotify etc) Its of course ther own fault for not jump=
ing in quick and building their own online music services, and spent too mu=
ch time stamping on Napster instead... Now the CEO of Napster is a Board me=
mber of Spotify and hes considered a legit=A0businessman... Go figure!</blo=
ckquote>
<div><br></div><div>Nope. Record companies have always been in the business=
 to make money (even Dischord, or whatever your favorite punk rock label is=
; they at least want to cover their own expenses, which involves selling th=
ings for cash). They got better at it over time (pop music is now largely a=
 series of formulas, with as many as 8 songwriters working on something). T=
he basic, original business model of record companies relied on them contro=
lling distribution. When people figured out how to (re)distribute it themse=
lves, they decided it wasn&#39;t worth as much as the record companies were=
 charging. When it became easy to get for free, they decided it was free.=
=A0</div>
<div><br></div><div>T</div></div>

--20cf303dd77222a12604d4860d84--

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I wont comment on the issues you pointed out on others posts, just mine...

On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 7:55 PM, Todd Elliott <toddbert@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> The record companies before, at least came from a standpoint of loving
> music, now the music business is being strangled by the distributors
> (Apple, Spotify etc) Its of course ther own fault for not jumping in quic=
k
> and building their own online music services, and spent too much time
> stamping on Napster instead... Now the CEO of Napster is a Board member o=
f
> Spotify and hes considered a legit businessman... Go figure!

Nope. Record companies have always been in the business to make money


Didnt say theys weren't, and I dont think that makes them bad per se
either. I have 2 business, and Id like them to make money, (one does the
other doesn't)


> (even Dischord, or whatever your favorite punk rock label is; they at
> least want to cover their own expenses, which involves selling things for
> cash).


No problem with that, where ARE you getting that i want record companies to
work for free? Did I say that? I think not!


> They got better at it over time (pop music is now largely a series of
> formulas, with as many as 8 songwriters working on something).


You say NOW largely formula, I can vouch that it wasn't so in the 90s, a
pair of song writers maybe, but not 6.. So THATS what it takes to sell a
record now does it, ok, I rest my case, there is OH SO NO money in the
business for creativity, that they have to resort to these so called
formulas.. how sad...


> The basic, original business model of record companies relied on them
> controlling distribution.


This is purely a US-centric situation, because the biggest record shop in
the US was Wallmart.. or some such shit... the majors in Europe often had
to go thru distribution networks that were wholely seperate, and Indie
music in particular, which became so all encompassing that all majors had a
few fake indie companies under their belts (I should know I was on one) had
to go thru indie distribution to, A) get in the Indie charts and B) got on
alternative TV, like MTV after hours, 120 minutes etc...


> When people figured out how to (re)distribute it themselves, they decided
> it wasn't worth as much as the record companies were charging.


Not true, didn't happen like that at all...


> When it became easy to get for free, they decided it was free.


Also not true, they stole when it became easy to steal, decided it was
free??? What kind of bollocks is that?

*OK; Heres something interesting.*

There IS something good about Spotify actually!
In Norway and Sweden, record sales have been dropping steadily since 2001
by 17% per year... Now they didnt manages to start factoring in the sales
of Downloads till 2006, but it turns out that for the last 2 years RECORD
SALES... stop.. damn force of habit... MUSIC SALES HAVE INCREASED!!! The
number of people prepared to pay for music, HAS INCREASED. Why? Because
Spotify makes it SO DAMN EASY!!! Yes, IN Norway, people would rathe pay 10
dollars a month for unlimited access to music, than A) Have Adverts, or B)
be bothered to track down torrents and steal it.

So Spotify is getting people USED to paying again, thats a good thing!

So, music sales dead? I dont think so, its just that in the cusp between
technologies, it was easier to download all the Beatles Albums in one go
from Pirate Bay, than to login to iTunes (can ANYONE remember their Apple
ID??)
So now, because of that Spotify can charge what they fucking like and pay
artists what they fucking like.

*And that the only thing I don=B4t like... IS THAT SO BAD?*

Man in Supermarket: How much is that Tin of Beans?
Shop Keeper: 2 cents
Man in Supermarket: A bargain, Ill have 100 tins then
Shop Keeper on phone to bean manufacturer: Send more beans they=B4re sellin=
g
like crazy! Oh and Im going to pay you 1 dollar for a million tins
Bean Manufacturer: Fuck off *click*

You can either
1) sell your stuff for a reasonable amount or
2) give it away or
3) give it to someone else to make all the money from..


I choose the first two


M


--=20
*Mark Francombe*
www.markfrancombe.com
www.ordoabkhao.com
http://vimeo.com/user825094
http://www.looop.no
twitter @markfrancombe
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra" style>I wont comment on the iss=
ues you pointed out on others posts, just mine...</div><div class=3D"gmail_=
extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 7:55 PM, Todd=
 Elliott <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:toddbert@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">toddbert@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:</div>

<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"color=
:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;margin:0px 0px 0p=
x 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-lef=
t-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">

<br class=3D"">The record companies before, at least came from a standpoint=
 of loving music, now the music business is being strangled by the distribu=
tors (Apple, Spotify etc) Its of course ther own fault for not jumping in q=
uick and building their own online music services, and spent too much time =
stamping on Napster instead... Now the CEO of Napster is a Board member of =
Spotify and hes considered a legit=A0businessman... Go figure!</blockquote>

</div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,2=
04,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">Nope. Record companies ha=
ve always been in the business to make money</blockquote>

<div><br></div><div style>Didnt say theys=A0weren&#39;t, and I dont think t=
hat makes them bad per se either. I have 2 business, and Id like them to ma=
ke money, (one does the other doesn&#39;t)</div><div>=A0</div><blockquote c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1p=
x;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1=
ex">

(even Dischord, or whatever your favorite punk rock label is; they at least=
 want to cover their own expenses, which involves selling things for cash).=
 </blockquote><div><br></div><div style>No problem with that, where ARE you=
 getting that i want record companies to work for free? Did I say that? I t=
hink not!</div>

<div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px=
 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left=
-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">They got better at it over time (pop music i=
s now largely a series of formulas, with as many as 8 songwriters working o=
n something).</blockquote>

<div><br></div><div style>You say NOW largely formula, I can vouch that it =
wasn&#39;t so in the 90s, a pair of song writers maybe, but not 6.. So THAT=
S what it takes to sell a record now does it, ok, I rest my case, there is =
OH SO NO money in the business for creativity, that they have to resort to =
these so called formulas.. how sad...=A0</div>

<div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px=
 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left=
-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">The basic, original business model of record=
 companies relied on them controlling distribution.</blockquote>

<div><br></div><div style>This is purely a US-centric situation, because th=
e biggest record shop in the US was Wallmart.. or some such shit... the maj=
ors in Europe often had to go thru=A0distribution=A0networks that were whol=
ely seperate, and Indie music in particular,=A0which=A0became so all=A0enco=
mpassing=A0that all majors had a few fake indie companies under their belts=
 (I should know I was on one) had to go thru indie distribution to, A) get =
in the Indie charts and B) got on alternative TV, like MTV after hours, 120=
 minutes etc...</div>

<div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px=
 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left=
-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">When people figured out how to (re)distribut=
e it themselves, they decided it wasn&#39;t worth as much as the record com=
panies were charging.</blockquote>

<div><br></div><div style>Not true, didn&#39;t happen like that at all...</=
div><div style>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0=
px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);b=
order-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">

When it became easy to get for free, they decided it was free.=A0</blockquo=
te><div><br></div><div style>Also not true, they stole when it became easy =
to steal, decided it was free??? What kind of bollocks is that?</div><div s=
tyle>

<br></div><div style><b>OK; Heres something interesting.</b></div><div styl=
e><br></div><div style>There IS something good about Spotify actually!</div=
><div style>In Norway and Sweden, record sales have been dropping=A0steadil=
y=A0since 2001 by 17% per year... Now they didnt manages to start factoring=
 in the sales of Downloads till 2006, but it turns out that for the last 2 =
years RECORD SALES... stop.. damn force of habit... MUSIC SALES HAVE INCREA=
SED!!! The number of people prepared to pay for music, HAS INCREASED. Why? =
Because Spotify makes it SO DAMN EASY!!! Yes, IN Norway, people would rathe=
 pay 10 dollars a month for unlimited access to music, than A) Have Adverts=
, or B) be bothered to track down torrents and steal it.</div>

<div style><br></div><div style>So Spotify is getting people USED to paying=
 again, thats a good thing!<br><br>So, music sales dead? I dont think so, i=
ts just that in the cusp between technologies, it was easier to download al=
l the Beatles Albums in one go from Pirate Bay, than to login to iTunes (ca=
n ANYONE remember=A0their=A0Apple ID??)</div>

<div style>So now, because of that Spotify can charge what they fucking lik=
e and pay artists what they fucking like.=A0</div><div style><br></div><div=
 style><b>And that the only thing I don=B4t like... IS THAT SO BAD?</b></di=
v>

<div style><br></div><div style>Man in Supermarket: How much is that Tin of=
 Beans?<br>Shop Keeper: 2 cents</div><div style>Man in Supermarket: A barga=
in, Ill have 100 tins then</div><div style>Shop Keeper on phone to bean man=
ufacturer: Send more beans they=B4re selling like crazy! Oh and Im going to=
 pay you 1 dollar for a million tins</div>

<div style>Bean Manufacturer: Fuck off *click*</div><div style><br></div><d=
iv style>You can either=A0</div><div style>1) sell your stuff for a reasona=
ble amount or</div><div style>2) give it away or</div><div style>3) give it=
 to someone else to make all the money from..=A0</div>

<div style><br></div><div style><br></div><div style>I choose the first two=
</div><div style><br></div></div><br>M<br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>=
-- <br><i style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(255,255,255);ba=
ckground-color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font style=3D"font-family:&#39;trebuchet ms&#39=
;,sans-serif" size=3D"4"><u>Mark Francombe</u></font></i><br>

<font size=3D"1"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.markfra=
ncombe.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.markfrancombe.com</a><br style=3D"color:=
rgb(51,0,51)"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.ordoabkhao=
.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.ordoabkhao.com</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,=
51)">

<a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://vimeo.com/user825094" target=
=3D"_blank">http://vimeo.com/user825094</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)"=
><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.looop.no/" target=3D"_b=
lank">http://www.looop.no</a><br>

twitter @markfrancombe<br><a href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@=
N00/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/</a><br><=
/font>
</div></div>

--f46d042f973259352004d486ecb3--

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--f46d042f9732f256f104d486f0d6
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Another duck and cover post by Mr Walker... get off that digest dude, and
get yer fists out, Im getting backed into a corner!


On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 8:57 PM, mark francombe <mark@markfrancombe.com>wro=
te:

> I wont comment on the issues you pointed out on others posts, just mine..=
.
>
> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 7:55 PM, Todd Elliott <toddbert@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> The record companies before, at least came from a standpoint of loving
>> music, now the music business is being strangled by the distributors
>> (Apple, Spotify etc) Its of course ther own fault for not jumping in qui=
ck
>> and building their own online music services, and spent too much time
>> stamping on Napster instead... Now the CEO of Napster is a Board member =
of
>> Spotify and hes considered a legit businessman... Go figure!
>
> Nope. Record companies have always been in the business to make money
>
>
> Didnt say theys weren't, and I dont think that makes them bad per se
> either. I have 2 business, and Id like them to make money, (one does the
> other doesn't)
>
>
>> (even Dischord, or whatever your favorite punk rock label is; they at
>> least want to cover their own expenses, which involves selling things fo=
r
>> cash).
>
>
> No problem with that, where ARE you getting that i want record companies
> to work for free? Did I say that? I think not!
>
>
>> They got better at it over time (pop music is now largely a series of
>> formulas, with as many as 8 songwriters working on something).
>
>
> You say NOW largely formula, I can vouch that it wasn't so in the 90s, a
> pair of song writers maybe, but not 6.. So THATS what it takes to sell a
> record now does it, ok, I rest my case, there is OH SO NO money in the
> business for creativity, that they have to resort to these so called
> formulas.. how sad...
>
>
>> The basic, original business model of record companies relied on them
>> controlling distribution.
>
>
> This is purely a US-centric situation, because the biggest record shop in
> the US was Wallmart.. or some such shit... the majors in Europe often had
> to go thru distribution networks that were wholely seperate, and Indie
> music in particular, which became so all encompassing that all majors had=
 a
> few fake indie companies under their belts (I should know I was on one) h=
ad
> to go thru indie distribution to, A) get in the Indie charts and B) got o=
n
> alternative TV, like MTV after hours, 120 minutes etc...
>
>
>> When people figured out how to (re)distribute it themselves, they decide=
d
>> it wasn't worth as much as the record companies were charging.
>
>
> Not true, didn't happen like that at all...
>
>
>> When it became easy to get for free, they decided it was free.
>
>
> Also not true, they stole when it became easy to steal, decided it was
> free??? What kind of bollocks is that?
>
> *OK; Heres something interesting.*
>
> There IS something good about Spotify actually!
> In Norway and Sweden, record sales have been dropping steadily since 2001
> by 17% per year... Now they didnt manages to start factoring in the sales
> of Downloads till 2006, but it turns out that for the last 2 years RECORD
> SALES... stop.. damn force of habit... MUSIC SALES HAVE INCREASED!!! The
> number of people prepared to pay for music, HAS INCREASED. Why? Because
> Spotify makes it SO DAMN EASY!!! Yes, IN Norway, people would rathe pay 1=
0
> dollars a month for unlimited access to music, than A) Have Adverts, or B=
)
> be bothered to track down torrents and steal it.
>
> So Spotify is getting people USED to paying again, thats a good thing!
>
> So, music sales dead? I dont think so, its just that in the cusp between
> technologies, it was easier to download all the Beatles Albums in one go
> from Pirate Bay, than to login to iTunes (can ANYONE remember their Apple
> ID??)
> So now, because of that Spotify can charge what they fucking like and pay
> artists what they fucking like.
>
> *And that the only thing I don=B4t like... IS THAT SO BAD?*
>
> Man in Supermarket: How much is that Tin of Beans?
> Shop Keeper: 2 cents
> Man in Supermarket: A bargain, Ill have 100 tins then
> Shop Keeper on phone to bean manufacturer: Send more beans they=B4re sell=
ing
> like crazy! Oh and Im going to pay you 1 dollar for a million tins
> Bean Manufacturer: Fuck off *click*
>
> You can either
> 1) sell your stuff for a reasonable amount or
> 2) give it away or
> 3) give it to someone else to make all the money from..
>
>
> I choose the first two
>
>
> M
>
>
> --
> *Mark Francombe*
> www.markfrancombe.com
> www.ordoabkhao.com
> http://vimeo.com/user825094
> http://www.looop.no
> twitter @markfrancombe
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/
>



--=20
*Mark Francombe*
www.markfrancombe.com
www.ordoabkhao.com
http://vimeo.com/user825094
http://www.looop.no
twitter @markfrancombe
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/

--f46d042f9732f256f104d486f0d6
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Another duck and cover post by Mr Walker... get off that d=
igest dude, and get yer fists out, Im getting backed into a corner!</div><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 30,=
 2013 at 8:57 PM, mark francombe <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ma=
rk@markfrancombe.com" target=3D"_blank">mark@markfrancombe.com</a>&gt;</spa=
n> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra">=
I wont comment on the issues you pointed out on others posts, just mine...<=
/div>

<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"im"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"=
>On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 7:55 PM, Todd Elliott <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:toddbert@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">toddbert@gmail.com</a>&gt=
;</span> wrote:</div>


<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"color=
:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;margin:0px 0px 0p=
x 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-lef=
t-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">


<br>The record companies before, at least came from a standpoint of loving =
music, now the music business is being strangled by the distributors (Apple=
, Spotify etc) Its of course ther own fault for not jumping in quick and bu=
ilding their own online music services, and spent too much time stamping on=
 Napster instead... Now the CEO of Napster is a Board member of Spotify and=
 hes considered a legit=A0businessman... Go figure!</blockquote>


</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"im"><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;bo=
rder-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">=
Nope. Record companies have always been in the business to make money</bloc=
kquote>


<div><br></div></div><div>Didnt say theys=A0weren&#39;t, and I dont think t=
hat makes them bad per se either. I have 2 business, and Id like them to ma=
ke money, (one does the other doesn&#39;t)</div><div class=3D"im"><div>=A0<=
/div>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;p=
adding-left:1ex">
(even Dischord, or whatever your favorite punk rock label is; they at least=
 want to cover their own expenses, which involves selling things for cash).=
 </blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>No problem with that, where ARE you=
 getting that i want record companies to work for free? Did I say that? I t=
hink not!</div>

<div class=3D"im">
<div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px=
 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left=
-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">They got better at it over time (pop music i=
s now largely a series of formulas, with as many as 8 songwriters working o=
n something).</blockquote>


<div><br></div></div><div>You say NOW largely formula, I can vouch that it =
wasn&#39;t so in the 90s, a pair of song writers maybe, but not 6.. So THAT=
S what it takes to sell a record now does it, ok, I rest my case, there is =
OH SO NO money in the business for creativity, that they have to resort to =
these so called formulas.. how sad...=A0</div>

<div class=3D"im">
<div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px=
 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left=
-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">The basic, original business model of record=
 companies relied on them controlling distribution.</blockquote>


<div><br></div></div><div>This is purely a US-centric situation, because th=
e biggest record shop in the US was Wallmart.. or some such shit... the maj=
ors in Europe often had to go thru=A0distribution=A0networks that were whol=
ely seperate, and Indie music in particular,=A0which=A0became so all=A0enco=
mpassing=A0that all majors had a few fake indie companies under their belts=
 (I should know I was on one) had to go thru indie distribution to, A) get =
in the Indie charts and B) got on alternative TV, like MTV after hours, 120=
 minutes etc...</div>

<div class=3D"im">
<div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px=
 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left=
-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">When people figured out how to (re)distribut=
e it themselves, they decided it wasn&#39;t worth as much as the record com=
panies were charging.</blockquote>


<div><br></div></div><div>Not true, didn&#39;t happen like that at all...</=
div><div class=3D"im"><div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">


When it became easy to get for free, they decided it was free.=A0</blockquo=
te><div><br></div></div><div>Also not true, they stole when it became easy =
to steal, decided it was free??? What kind of bollocks is that?</div><div>


<br></div><div><b>OK; Heres something interesting.</b></div><div><br></div>=
<div>There IS something good about Spotify actually!</div><div>In Norway an=
d Sweden, record sales have been dropping=A0steadily=A0since 2001 by 17% pe=
r year... Now they didnt manages to start factoring in the sales of Downloa=
ds till 2006, but it turns out that for the last 2 years RECORD SALES... st=
op.. damn force of habit... MUSIC SALES HAVE INCREASED!!! The number of peo=
ple prepared to pay for music, HAS INCREASED. Why? Because Spotify makes it=
 SO DAMN EASY!!! Yes, IN Norway, people would rathe pay 10 dollars a month =
for unlimited access to music, than A) Have Adverts, or B) be bothered to t=
rack down torrents and steal it.</div>


<div><br></div><div>So Spotify is getting people USED to paying again, that=
s a good thing!<br><br>So, music sales dead? I dont think so, its just that=
 in the cusp between technologies, it was easier to download all the Beatle=
s Albums in one go from Pirate Bay, than to login to iTunes (can ANYONE rem=
ember=A0their=A0Apple ID??)</div>


<div>So now, because of that Spotify can charge what they fucking like and =
pay artists what they fucking like.=A0</div><div><br></div><div><b>And that=
 the only thing I don=B4t like... IS THAT SO BAD?</b></div>
<div><br></div><div>Man in Supermarket: How much is that Tin of Beans?<br>S=
hop Keeper: 2 cents</div><div>Man in Supermarket: A bargain, Ill have 100 t=
ins then</div><div>Shop Keeper on phone to bean manufacturer: Send more bea=
ns they=B4re selling like crazy! Oh and Im going to pay you 1 dollar for a =
million tins</div>


<div>Bean Manufacturer: Fuck off *click*</div><div><br></div><div>You can e=
ither=A0</div><div>1) sell your stuff for a reasonable amount or</div><div>=
2) give it away or</div><div>3) give it to someone else to make all the mon=
ey from..=A0</div>


<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>I choose the first two</div><div><br></d=
iv></div><div class=3D"im"><br>M<br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br=
><i style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(255,255,255);backgrou=
nd-color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font style=3D"font-family:&#39;trebuchet ms&#39;,sans=
-serif" size=3D"4"><u>Mark Francombe</u></font></i><br>


<font size=3D"1"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.markfra=
ncombe.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.markfrancombe.com</a><br style=3D"color:=
rgb(51,0,51)"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.ordoabkhao=
.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.ordoabkhao.com</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,=
51)">


<a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://vimeo.com/user825094" target=
=3D"_blank">http://vimeo.com/user825094</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)"=
><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.looop.no/" target=3D"_b=
lank">http://www.looop.no</a><br>


twitter @markfrancombe<br><a href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@=
N00/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/</a><br><=
/font>
</div></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><i style=3D"=
font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(255,255,255);background-color:rgb(=
0,0,0)"><font style=3D"font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif" size=3D"4"><u>M=
ark Francombe</u></font></i><br>

<font size=3D"1"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.markfra=
ncombe.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.markfrancombe.com</a><br style=3D"color:=
rgb(51,0,51)"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.ordoabkhao=
.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.ordoabkhao.com</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,=
51)">

<a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://vimeo.com/user825094" target=
=3D"_blank">http://vimeo.com/user825094</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)"=
><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.looop.no/" target=3D"_b=
lank">http://www.looop.no</a><br>

twitter @markfrancombe<br><a href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@=
N00/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/</a><br><=
/font>
</div>

--f46d042f9732f256f104d486f0d6--

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Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 12:03:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Uccello <stevebassbird@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: Steve Uccello <stevebassbird@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zoe Keating in NY Times article.@borisfx.com
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--2145414650-239979752-1359576197=:17687
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I have only been skimming through on this thread, so not sure if this total=
ly fits in to it, but I think this awesome, ranting blog post by bassist Je=
ff Schmidt would interest some of you...?=0A=0Ahttp://beautiful-bass.com/bl=
og/?p=3D398=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: mark franc=
ombe <mark@markfrancombe.com>=0ATo: loopers-delight <Loopers-Delight@looper=
s-delight.com> =0ASent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 11:57 AM=0ASubject: Re:=
 Zoe Keating in NY Times article.@borisfx.com=0A =0A=0AI wont comment on th=
e issues you pointed out on others posts, just mine...=0A=0A=0AOn Wed, Jan =
30, 2013 at 7:55 PM, Todd Elliott <toddbert@gmail.com> wrote:=0A=0A>The rec=
ord companies before, at least came from a standpoint of loving music, now =
the music business is being strangled by the distributors (Apple, Spotify e=
tc) Its of course ther own fault for not jumping in quick and building thei=
r own online music services, and spent too much time stamping on Napster in=
stead... Now the CEO of Napster is a Board member of Spotify and hes consid=
ered a legit=A0businessman... Go figure!=0ANope. Record companies have alwa=
ys been in the business to make money=0A=0ADidnt say theys=A0weren't, and I=
 dont think that makes them bad per se either. I have 2 business, and Id li=
ke them to make money, (one does the other doesn't)=0A=A0=0A(even Dischord,=
 or whatever your favorite punk rock label is; they at least want to cover =
their own expenses, which involves selling things for cash). =0A=0ANo probl=
em with that, where ARE you getting that i want record companies to work fo=
r free? Did I say that? I think not!=0A=A0=0AThey got better at it over tim=
e (pop music is now largely a series of formulas, with as many as 8 songwri=
ters working on something).=0A=0AYou say NOW largely formula, I can vouch t=
hat it wasn't so in the 90s, a pair of song writers maybe, but not 6.. So T=
HATS what it takes to sell a record now does it, ok, I rest my case, there =
is OH SO NO money in the business for creativity, that they have to resort =
to these so called formulas.. how sad...=A0=0A=A0=0AThe basic, original bus=
iness model of record companies relied on them controlling distribution.=0A=
=0AThis is purely a US-centric situation, because the biggest record shop i=
n the US was Wallmart.. or some such shit... the majors in Europe often had=
 to go thru=A0distribution=A0networks that were wholely seperate, and Indie=
 music in particular,=A0which=A0became so all=A0encompassing=A0that all maj=
ors had a few fake indie companies under their belts (I should know I was o=
n one) had to go thru indie distribution to, A) get in the Indie charts and=
 B) got on alternative TV, like MTV after hours, 120 minutes etc...=0A=A0=
=0AWhen people figured out how to (re)distribute it themselves, they decide=
d it wasn't worth as much as the record companies were charging.=0A=0ANot t=
rue, didn't happen like that at all...=0A=A0=0AWhen it became easy to get f=
or free, they decided it was free.=A0=0A=0AAlso not true, they stole when i=
t became easy to steal, decided it was free??? What kind of bollocks is tha=
t?=0A=0AOK; Heres something interesting.=0A=0AThere IS something good about=
 Spotify actually!=0AIn Norway and Sweden, record sales have been dropping=
=A0steadily=A0since 2001 by 17% per year... Now they didnt manages to start=
 factoring in the sales of Downloads till 2006, but it turns out that for t=
he last 2 years RECORD SALES... stop.. damn force of habit... MUSIC SALES H=
AVE INCREASED!!! The number of people prepared to pay for music, HAS INCREA=
SED. Why? Because Spotify makes it SO DAMN EASY!!! Yes, IN Norway, people w=
ould rathe pay 10 dollars a month for unlimited access to music, than A) Ha=
ve Adverts, or B) be bothered to track down torrents and steal it.=0A=0ASo =
Spotify is getting people USED to paying again, thats a good thing!=0A=0ASo=
, music sales dead? I dont think so, its just that in the cusp between tech=
nologies, it was easier to download all the Beatles Albums in one go from P=
irate Bay, than to login to iTunes (can ANYONE remember=A0their=A0Apple ID?=
?)=0ASo now, because of that Spotify can charge what they fucking like and =
pay artists what they fucking like.=A0=0A=0AAnd that the only thing I don=
=B4t like... IS THAT SO BAD?=0A=0AMan in Supermarket: How much is that Tin =
of Beans?=0AShop Keeper: 2 cents=0AMan in Supermarket: A bargain, Ill have =
100 tins then=0AShop Keeper on phone to bean manufacturer: Send more beans =
they=B4re selling like crazy! Oh and Im going to pay you 1 dollar for a mil=
lion tins=0ABean Manufacturer: Fuck off *click*=0A=0AYou can either=A0=0A1)=
 sell your stuff for a reasonable amount or=0A2) give it away or=0A3) give =
it to someone else to make all the money from..=A0=0A=0A=0AI choose the fir=
st two=0A=0AM=0A=0A=0A-- =0AMark Francombe=0Awww.markfrancombe.com=0Awww.or=
doabkhao.com=0Ahttp://vimeo.com/user825094=0Ahttp://www.looop.no=0Atwitter =
@markfrancombe=0Ahttp://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/
--2145414650-239979752-1359576197=:17687
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:ar=
ial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:14pt"><div><span>I have only been skim=
ming through on this thread, so not sure if this totally fits in to it, but=
 I think this awesome, ranting blog post by bassist Jeff Schmidt would inte=
rest some of you...?</span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-si=
ze: 19px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: tran=
sparent; font-style: normal; "><span><br></span></div><div style=3D"color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 19px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; b=
ackground-color: transparent; font-style: normal; "><span><font class=3D"Ap=
ple-style-span"><a href=3D"http://beautiful-bass.com/blog/?p=3D398">http://=
beautiful-bass.com/blog/?p=3D398</a></font></span></div><div><br></div>  <d=
iv style=3D"font-size: 14pt; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; "> =
<div style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', =
times,
 serif; "> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"> <hr size=3D"1=
">  <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> mark francombe &l=
t;mark@markfrancombe.com&gt;<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:<=
/span></b> loopers-delight &lt;Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com&gt; <br>=
 <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, January =
30, 2013 11:57 AM<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span>=
</b> Re: Zoe Keating in NY Times article.@borisfx.com<br> </font> </div> <b=
r><div id=3D"yiv1038697747"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"yiv1038697747gma=
il_extra" style=3D"">I wont comment on the issues you pointed out on others=
 posts, just mine...</div><div class=3D"yiv1038697747gmail_extra"><br><div =
class=3D"yiv1038697747gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 7:55 PM, Todd El=
liott <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:toddbert@=
gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:toddbert@gmail.com">toddbert@gm=
ail.com</a>&gt;</span>
 wrote:</div>=0A=0A<div class=3D"yiv1038697747gmail_quote"><blockquote clas=
s=3D"yiv1038697747gmail_quote" style=3D"color: rgb(80, 0, 80); font-size: 1=
3px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0=
.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border=
-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex; font-family: arial, sans-serif; ">=
=0A=0A<br class=3D"yiv1038697747">The record companies before, at least cam=
e from a standpoint of loving music, now the music business is being strang=
led by the distributors (Apple, Spotify etc) Its of course ther own fault f=
or not jumping in quick and building their own online music services, and s=
pent too much time stamping on Napster instead... Now the CEO of Napster is=
 a Board member of Spotify and hes considered a legit&nbsp;businessman... G=
o figure!</blockquote>=0A=0A</div><div class=3D"yiv1038697747gmail_quote"><=
blockquote class=3D"yiv1038697747gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0=
.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-s=
tyle:solid;padding-left:1ex;">Nope. Record companies have always been in th=
e business to make money</blockquote>=0A=0A<div><br></div><div style=3D"">D=
idnt say theys&nbsp;weren't, and I dont think that makes them bad per se ei=
ther. I have 2 business, and Id like them to make money, (one does the othe=
r doesn't)</div><div>&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"yiv1038697747gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-co=
lor:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;">=0A=0A(even=
 Dischord, or whatever your favorite punk rock label is; they at least want=
 to cover their own expenses, which involves selling things for cash). </bl=
ockquote><div><br></div><div style=3D"">No problem with that, where ARE you=
 getting that i want record companies to work for free? Did I say that? I t=
hink not!</div>=0A=0A<div>&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"yiv1038697747gma=
il_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-le=
ft-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;">They g=
ot better at it over time (pop music is now largely a series of formulas, w=
ith as many as 8 songwriters working on something).</blockquote>=0A=0A<div>=
<br></div><div style=3D"">You say NOW largely formula, I can vouch that it =
wasn't so in the 90s, a pair of song writers maybe, but not 6.. So THATS wh=
at it takes to sell a record now does it, ok, I rest my case, there is OH S=
O NO money in the business for creativity, that they have to resort to thes=
e so called formulas.. how sad...&nbsp;</div>=0A=0A<div>&nbsp;</div><blockq=
uote class=3D"yiv1038697747gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;b=
order-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:s=
olid;padding-left:1ex;">The basic, original business model of record compan=
ies relied on them controlling distribution.</blockquote>=0A=0A<div><br></d=
iv><div style=3D"">This is purely a US-centric situation, because the bigge=
st record shop in the US was Wallmart.. or some such shit... the majors in =
Europe often had to go thru&nbsp;distribution&nbsp;networks that were whole=
ly seperate, and Indie music in particular,&nbsp;which&nbsp;became so all&n=
bsp;encompassing&nbsp;that all majors had a few fake indie companies under =
their belts (I should know I was on one) had to go thru indie distribution =
to, A) get in the Indie charts and B) got on alternative TV, like MTV after=
 hours, 120 minutes etc...</div>=0A=0A<div>&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D=
"yiv1038697747gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-wi=
dth:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-=
left:1ex;">When people figured out how to (re)distribute it themselves, the=
y decided it wasn't worth as much as the record companies were charging.</b=
lockquote>=0A=0A<div><br></div><div style=3D"">Not true, didn't happen like=
 that at all...</div><div style=3D"">&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"yiv10=
38697747gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1p=
x;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1=
ex;">=0A=0AWhen it became easy to get for free, they decided it was free.&n=
bsp;</blockquote><div><br></div><div style=3D"">Also not true, they stole w=
hen it became easy to steal, decided it was free??? What kind of bollocks i=
s that?</div><div style=3D"">=0A=0A<br></div><div style=3D""><b>OK; Heres s=
omething interesting.</b></div><div style=3D""><br></div><div style=3D"">Th=
ere IS something good about Spotify actually!</div><div style=3D"">In Norwa=
y and Sweden, record sales have been dropping&nbsp;steadily&nbsp;since 2001=
 by 17% per year... Now they didnt manages to start factoring in the sales =
of Downloads till 2006, but it turns out that for the last 2 years RECORD S=
ALES... stop.. damn force of habit... MUSIC SALES HAVE INCREASED!!! The num=
ber of people prepared to pay for music, HAS INCREASED. Why? Because Spotif=
y makes it SO DAMN EASY!!! Yes, IN Norway, people would rathe pay 10 dollar=
s a month for unlimited access to music, than A) Have Adverts, or B) be bot=
hered to track down torrents and steal it.</div>=0A=0A<div style=3D""><br><=
/div><div style=3D"">So Spotify is getting people USED to paying again, tha=
ts a good thing!<br><br>So, music sales dead? I dont think so, its just tha=
t in the cusp between technologies, it was easier to download all the Beatl=
es Albums in one go from Pirate Bay, than to login to iTunes (can ANYONE re=
member&nbsp;their&nbsp;Apple ID??)</div>=0A=0A<div style=3D"">So now, becau=
se of that Spotify can charge what they fucking like and pay artists what t=
hey fucking like.&nbsp;</div><div style=3D""><br></div><div style=3D""><b>A=
nd that the only thing I don=B4t like... IS THAT SO BAD?</b></div>=0A=0A<di=
v style=3D""><br></div><div style=3D"">Man in Supermarket: How much is that=
 Tin of Beans?<br>Shop Keeper: 2 cents</div><div style=3D"">Man in Supermar=
ket: A bargain, Ill have 100 tins then</div><div style=3D"">Shop Keeper on =
phone to bean manufacturer: Send more beans they=B4re selling like crazy! O=
h and Im going to pay you 1 dollar for a million tins</div>=0A=0A<div style=
=3D"">Bean Manufacturer: Fuck off *click*</div><div style=3D""><br></div><d=
iv style=3D"">You can either&nbsp;</div><div style=3D"">1) sell your stuff =
for a reasonable amount or</div><div style=3D"">2) give it away or</div><di=
v style=3D"">3) give it to someone else to make all the money from..&nbsp;<=
/div>=0A=0A<div style=3D""><br></div><div style=3D""><br></div><div style=
=3D"">I choose the first two</div><div style=3D""><br></div></div><br>M<br>=
<br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><i style=3D"color: rgb(255, 255, 25=
5); background-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: verdana, sans-serif; "><fo=
nt style=3D"" size=3D"4"><u>Mark Francombe</u></font></i><br>=0A=0A<font si=
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Subject: Re: Zoe Keating in NY Times article.@borisfx.com
From: Daniel Thomas <danielthomas4@mac.com>
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Good thread. =20

The recording industry is dead and already stinking.  When can we bury =
her and how?  Would any among us begrudge dwindling royalty checks if we =
were just paid a comfortable living wage for playing gigs? =20

Though I am an avid recordist / producer whose phone still rings with =
offers to work, the business of mechanical / publishing royalties has =
never contributed much to my bottom line.  I have 87 releases behind me =
now-- many of them on major labels=85  Only one is still generating a =
royalty check and this is but a pittance.      Meanwhile, the very same =
business model has ensured  that fat cats get fatter on the back of work =
I contributed to. =20

Why do we as independent musicians fight for this business model to =
continue?   Barring the smallest sector of our business, the wildly =
famous, most of us never really benefit from the intellectual property =
side of the business or if we do its such a small contribution as to be =
negligible. Add it up over 10-20 years in the business-  what percentage =
of your total income is from royalties or publishing agreements.  For =
me, its less than 10% and the bulk of my compensated work has been in =
the studio!  For most of these royalty generating projects, I actually =
made less per hour in production due to the fact that I had points on =
the back end.  IOW, I would have earned much more had I just been paid =
the going rate for the production work rather than  reducing this rate =
to negotiate for publishing or mechanical royalty. =20

Given this, a big part of me welcomes the  demise of our recording =
industry.  Speaking for myself, I would be happy to give away all of my =
recorded works for all time were I just paid a living wage to perform my =
art.  Or, as a producer/engineer, paid a living wage to make the =
recordings that promote other artist's work. =20

Perhaps its time local musicians insist on a living wage to play bars =
and restaurants who rely on us to make a scene happen (not that I am =
advocate for musician unions.)  =20

Recently, I was pitching a band to a wedding event.  A great band.  5 =
Pro musicians.  The bid was for 3 sets, w/ PA and lights.  We pitched at =
1000.00  A total bargain for 5 pro musicians w/ sound man and all the =
gear to create the spectacle.  The gig was given instead to another =
local band who pitched similar service at $250!  That's about 20 bucks =
per person after gas to the gig.  WTF?!   Musician poverty consciousness =
bringing down the wages of all musicians in the community!  This kind of =
thing hurts us much more directly than greedy fat cats squeezing the =
dying breath from their Babylonian industry.  Local musicians cannot do =
all that much about fat cat greed. But we can stop playing out for dirt =
wages.  No pearls before swine.

 =20
Daniel=20

www.danielshanethomas.com

 =20
On Jan 30, 2013, at 10:55 AM, Todd Elliott <toddbert@gmail.com> wrote:

>=20
>=20
> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Dean, Hal <HDean@wcupa.edu> wrote:
> Eno is not god despite our occasional stabs at setting him up as one. =
I find his analogy not apt.
>=20
>=20
> I don't think he's a god (I mean, have you heard him sing? Yow.). I =
find his comparison astute.=20
>  =20
> The guys =93making=94 whale blubber were not going to persist in doing =
it once the market caved, and no one would continue to be interested in =
their product. If the analogy is to the selling of recordings, not =
records. i.e. not to a physical product necessarily, then one must point =
out that the workers do continue to be interested in the making (that =
would be everyone reading this), and there continues to be a pool of =
folks interested in the results.
>=20
>=20
> They may be interested in hearing the results, but the number of =
people interested in paying for them is dwindling, and continues to =
dwindle.
> =20
> I don=92t think it is entirely true that the people who purchase =
decide value. I=92m no economist, but surely the economy of music =
distribution has an element of the =93race to the bottom=94 about it.  =
Amazon=92s bending of the publishing world to its will is a parallel =
that has received a lot of attention =96 the real sufferers there are =
authors.  BTW, to the extent that theft is a =93purchase=94, then the =
value is zero.  Hmm.
>=20
>=20
> Correct. If no one is willing to pay for something, and they can get =
it for free, the value of it is zero. It's illiquid. I can say my new =
record is $100, but if no one buys it at that price, it has no value. =
Outside of a select circle of folk, people seem to be throwing their =
discretionary income at other things.
>=20
> But Per makes a compelling case for what I=92ve seen Chris Cutler call =
a =93post-musical=94 world=85 well, maybe that isn=92t what Chris means =
by the term, but it sounds good=85 I have not really thought much about =
that. If that is where we are headed or have arrived, I will hope there =
remains a market at least sufficient to support the undeniable geniuses =
of the world.
>=20
>=20
> There probably will; though the definition of genius may vary. Amanda =
Palmer, who I don't consider any sort of genius, made a million bucks by =
rattling a tin cup on the internet. Any 'revolution' in the way we =
consume music is going to have to come with the understanding that =
almost anyone can get a recording of what you make for free, and will =
probably listen to it in a manner that will make you shudder (over =
laptop speakers from a youtube stream, over earbuds in a poor mp3 rip, =
etc). The notion that people will pay for high quality, or some tangible =
format, or something like that is wrong-- outside of a small group of =
nerds, no one cares. Maybe that small group of nerds can sustain you, =
but they are fickle.=20
>=20
> 'Getting music out there' is very easy to do. Getting people to pay =
for it is only going to get harder. You can ask nicely for money for =
your recorded music, but that horse got out of the barn years ago, and =
is probably married and living in a different state.
>=20
> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 7:16 AM, mark francombe =
<mark@markfrancombe.com> wrote:
>=20
>=20
> The record companies before, at least came from a standpoint of loving =
music, now the music business is being strangled by the distributors =
(Apple, Spotify etc) Its of course ther own fault for not jumping in =
quick and building their own online music services, and spent too much =
time stamping on Napster instead... Now the CEO of Napster is a Board =
member of Spotify and hes considered a legit businessman... Go figure!
>=20
> Nope. Record companies have always been in the business to make money =
(even Dischord, or whatever your favorite punk rock label is; they at =
least want to cover their own expenses, which involves selling things =
for cash). They got better at it over time (pop music is now largely a =
series of formulas, with as many as 8 songwriters working on something). =
The basic, original business model of record companies relied on them =
controlling distribution. When people figured out how to (re)distribute =
it themselves, they decided it wasn't worth as much as the record =
companies were charging. When it became easy to get for free, they =
decided it was free.=20
>=20
> T


--Boundary_(ID_rHHZKr6esd8hsnsuO+ew2g)
Content-type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dwindows-1252"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Good =
thread. &nbsp;<div><br></div><div><div>The recording industry is dead =
and already stinking. &nbsp;When can we bury her and how? &nbsp;Would =
any among us begrudge dwindling royalty checks if we were just paid a =
comfortable living wage for playing gigs? =
&nbsp;</div></div><div><br></div><div>Though I am an avid recordist / =
producer whose phone still rings with offers to work, the business of =
mechanical / publishing royalties has never contributed much to my =
bottom line. &nbsp;I have 87 releases behind me now-- many of them on =
major labels=85 &nbsp;Only one is still generating a royalty check and =
this is but a pittance. &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Meanwhile, the very =
same business model has ensured &nbsp;that fat cats get fatter on the =
back of work I contributed to. &nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Why do we =
as independent musicians fight for this business model to continue? =
&nbsp; Barring the smallest sector of our business, the wildly famous, =
most of us never really benefit from the intellectual property side of =
the business or if we do its such a small contribution as to be =
negligible. Add it up over 10-20 years in the business- &nbsp;what =
percentage of your total income is from royalties or publishing =
agreements. &nbsp;For me, its less than 10% and the bulk of my =
compensated work has been in the studio! &nbsp;For most of these royalty =
generating projects, I actually made less per hour in production due to =
the fact that I had points on the back end. &nbsp;IOW, I would have =
earned much more had I just been paid the going rate for the production =
work rather than &nbsp;reducing this rate to negotiate for publishing or =
mechanical&nbsp;royalty. &nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Given this, a =
big part of me welcomes the &nbsp;demise of our recording industry. =
&nbsp;Speaking for myself, I would be happy to give away all of my =
recorded works for all time were I just paid a living wage to perform my =
art. &nbsp;Or, as a producer/engineer, paid a living wage to make the =
recordings that promote other artist's work. =
&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Perhaps its time local musicians insist =
on a living wage to play bars and restaurants who rely on us to make a =
scene happen (not that I am advocate for musician unions.) =
&nbsp;&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Recently, I was pitching a band to =
a wedding event. &nbsp;A great band. &nbsp;5 Pro musicians. &nbsp;The =
bid was for 3 sets, w/ PA and lights. &nbsp;We pitched at 1000.00 =
&nbsp;A total bargain for 5 pro musicians w/ sound man and all the gear =
to create the spectacle. &nbsp;The gig was given instead to another =
local band who pitched similar service at $250! &nbsp;That's about 20 =
bucks per person after gas to the gig. &nbsp;WTF?! &nbsp; Musician =
poverty consciousness bringing down the wages of all musicians in the =
community! &nbsp;This kind of thing hurts us much more directly than =
greedy fat cats squeezing the dying breath from their Babylonian =
industry. &nbsp;Local musicians cannot do all that much about fat cat =
greed. But we can stop playing out for dirt wages. &nbsp;No pearls =
before =
swine.</div><div><br></div><div>&nbsp;&nbsp;</div><div>Daniel&nbsp;</div><=
div><br></div><div><a =
href=3D"http://www.danielshanethomas.com">www.danielshanethomas.com</a></d=
iv><div><br></div><div>&nbsp;&nbsp;</div><div><div><div>On Jan 30, 2013, =
at 10:55 AM, Todd Elliott &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:toddbert@gmail.com">toddbert@gmail.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at =
10:23 AM, Dean, Hal <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:HDean@wcupa.edu" =
target=3D"_blank">HDean@wcupa.edu</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc =
solid;padding-left:1ex">






<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#1f497d">Eno is not god despite our occasional stabs at =
setting him up as one. I find his analogy not apt.</span></p>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I don't think he's a god (I =
mean, have you heard him sing? Yow.). I find his comparison =
astute.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;<span =
style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11p=
t">&nbsp;</span></div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US" =
link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#1f497d">The guys =93making=94 whale blubber were not going =
to persist in doing it once the market caved, and no one would continue =
to be interested in their product. If
 the analogy is to the selling of recordings, not records. i.e. not to a =
physical product necessarily, then one must point out that the workers =
do continue to be interested in the making (that would be everyone =
reading this), and there continues to be a pool
 of folks interested in the =
results.</span></p></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>They may be =
interested in <b>hearing</b> the results, but the number of people =
interested in <b>paying</b> for them is dwindling, and continues to =
dwindle.</div>
<div><span =
style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11p=
t">&nbsp;</span></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 =
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US" =
link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#1f497d">I don=92t think it is entirely true that the =
people who purchase decide value. I=92m no economist, but surely the =
economy of music distribution has an element of
 the =93race to the bottom=94 about it. &nbsp;Amazon=92s bending of the =
publishing world to its will is a parallel that has received a lot of =
attention =96 the real sufferers there are authors. &nbsp;BTW, to the =
extent that theft is a =93purchase=94, then the value is zero.&nbsp; =
Hmm.</span></p>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Correct. If no one is =
willing to pay for something, and they can get it for free, the value of =
it is zero. It's illiquid. I can say my new record is $100, but if no =
one buys it at that price, it has no value. Outside of a select circle =
of folk, people seem to be throwing their discretionary income at other =
things.</div>
<div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US" =
link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#1f497d">But Per makes a compelling case for what I=92ve =
seen Chris Cutler call a =93post-musical=94 world=85 well, maybe that =
isn=92t what Chris means by the term, but it sounds
 good=85 I have not really thought much about that. If that is where we =
are headed or have arrived, I will hope there remains a market at least =
sufficient to support the undeniable geniuses of the world. =
</span></p></div>
</blockquote><div><br></div><div>There probably will; though the =
definition of genius may vary. Amanda Palmer, who I don't consider any =
sort of genius, made a million bucks by rattling a tin cup on the =
internet. Any 'revolution' in the way we consume music is going to have =
to come with the understanding that almost anyone can get a recording of =
what you make for free, and will probably listen to it in a manner that =
will make you shudder (over laptop speakers from a youtube stream, over =
earbuds in a poor mp3 rip, etc). The notion that people will pay for =
high quality, or some tangible format, or something like that is wrong-- =
outside of a small group of nerds, no one cares. Maybe that small group =
of nerds can sustain you, but they are fickle.&nbsp;</div>
<div><br></div><div>'Getting music out there' is very easy to do. =
Getting people to pay for it is only going to get harder. You can ask =
nicely for money for your recorded music, but that horse got out of the =
barn years ago, and is probably married and living in a different =
state.</div>
<div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US" =
link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"h5">
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 7:16 AM, mark =
francombe &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mark@markfrancombe.com" =
target=3D"_blank">mark@markfrancombe.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:</p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br>
</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left=
-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">The record companies before, at least =
came from a standpoint of loving music, now the music business is being =
strangled by the distributors (Apple, Spotify etc) Its of course ther =
own fault for not jumping in quick and building their own online music =
services, and spent too much time stamping on Napster instead... Now the =
CEO of Napster is a Board member of Spotify and hes considered a =
legit&nbsp;businessman... Go figure!</blockquote>
<div><br></div><div>Nope. Record companies have always been in the =
business to make money (even Dischord, or whatever your favorite punk =
rock label is; they at least want to cover their own expenses, which =
involves selling things for cash). They got better at it over time (pop =
music is now largely a series of formulas, with as many as 8 songwriters =
working on something). The basic, original business model of record =
companies relied on them controlling distribution. When people figured =
out how to (re)distribute it themselves, they decided it wasn't worth as =
much as the record companies were charging. When it became easy to get =
for free, they decided it was free.&nbsp;</div>
<div><br></div><div>T</div></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>=

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Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 21:38:36 +0100
Message-ID: <CAJC14WhMZC8OpNDBxpq3xgGzwSfN8=HnzVEFvZrMqHExv8s6kA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Fwd: Zoe Keating in NY Times article.@borisfx.com
From: Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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Well, if anyone of you happen to NOT read all the news from all
countries in the world I can report that in Sweden we have seen a
public release today of a research report on the Swedish music
industry. An amazing fact is that the industry has grown by 4 percent
during 2011 - and that is a lot due to the effect of streaming. For
the first time incomes from streaming and digitally distributed music
exceeds physical sales, at 56 percent vs 44.

Generally, if one looks into the film and games markets it may show
that the "recording industry" has not died, just moved to another
place. An it left behind old inhabitants that didn't care to come
along in the move (hence a lot of the whining about this) - one very
typical sign of a "paradigm shift", in case you are familiar with
Kuhn's book on that:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Kuhn

Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.perboysen.com
http://www.youtube.com/perboysen


On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 9:03 PM, Steve Uccello <stevebassbird@yahoo.com> wr=
ote:
> I have only been skimming through on this thread, so not sure if this
> totally fits in to it, but I think this awesome, ranting blog post by
> bassist Jeff Schmidt would interest some of you...?
>
> http://beautiful-bass.com/blog/?p=3D398
>
> ________________________________
> From: mark francombe <mark@markfrancombe.com>
> To: loopers-delight <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 11:57 AM
> Subject: Re: Zoe Keating in NY Times article.@borisfx.com
>
> I wont comment on the issues you pointed out on others posts, just mine..=
.
>
> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 7:55 PM, Todd Elliott <toddbert@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> The record companies before, at least came from a standpoint of loving
> music, now the music business is being strangled by the distributors (App=
le,
> Spotify etc) Its of course ther own fault for not jumping in quick and
> building their own online music services, and spent too much time stampin=
g
> on Napster instead... Now the CEO of Napster is a Board member of Spotify
> and hes considered a legit businessman... Go figure!
>
> Nope. Record companies have always been in the business to make money
>
>
> Didnt say theys weren't, and I dont think that makes them bad per se eith=
er.
> I have 2 business, and Id like them to make money, (one does the other
> doesn't)
>
>
> (even Dischord, or whatever your favorite punk rock label is; they at lea=
st
> want to cover their own expenses, which involves selling things for cash)=
.
>
>
> No problem with that, where ARE you getting that i want record companies =
to
> work for free? Did I say that? I think not!
>
>
> They got better at it over time (pop music is now largely a series of
> formulas, with as many as 8 songwriters working on something).
>
>
> You say NOW largely formula, I can vouch that it wasn't so in the 90s, a
> pair of song writers maybe, but not 6.. So THATS what it takes to sell a
> record now does it, ok, I rest my case, there is OH SO NO money in the
> business for creativity, that they have to resort to these so called
> formulas.. how sad...
>
>
> The basic, original business model of record companies relied on them
> controlling distribution.
>
>
> This is purely a US-centric situation, because the biggest record shop in
> the US was Wallmart.. or some such shit... the majors in Europe often had=
 to
> go thru distribution networks that were wholely seperate, and Indie music=
 in
> particular, which became so all encompassing that all majors had a few fa=
ke
> indie companies under their belts (I should know I was on one) had to go
> thru indie distribution to, A) get in the Indie charts and B) got on
> alternative TV, like MTV after hours, 120 minutes etc...
>
>
> When people figured out how to (re)distribute it themselves, they decided=
 it
> wasn't worth as much as the record companies were charging.
>
>
> Not true, didn't happen like that at all...
>
>
> When it became easy to get for free, they decided it was free.
>
>
> Also not true, they stole when it became easy to steal, decided it was
> free??? What kind of bollocks is that?
>
> OK; Heres something interesting.
>
> There IS something good about Spotify actually!
> In Norway and Sweden, record sales have been dropping steadily since 2001=
 by
> 17% per year... Now they didnt manages to start factoring in the sales of
> Downloads till 2006, but it turns out that for the last 2 years RECORD
> SALES... stop.. damn force of habit... MUSIC SALES HAVE INCREASED!!! The
> number of people prepared to pay for music, HAS INCREASED. Why? Because
> Spotify makes it SO DAMN EASY!!! Yes, IN Norway, people would rathe pay 1=
0
> dollars a month for unlimited access to music, than A) Have Adverts, or B=
)
> be bothered to track down torrents and steal it.
>
> So Spotify is getting people USED to paying again, thats a good thing!
>
> So, music sales dead? I dont think so, its just that in the cusp between
> technologies, it was easier to download all the Beatles Albums in one go
> from Pirate Bay, than to login to iTunes (can ANYONE remember their Apple
> ID??)
> So now, because of that Spotify can charge what they fucking like and pay
> artists what they fucking like.
>
> And that the only thing I don=C2=B4t like... IS THAT SO BAD?
>
> Man in Supermarket: How much is that Tin of Beans?
> Shop Keeper: 2 cents
> Man in Supermarket: A bargain, Ill have 100 tins then
> Shop Keeper on phone to bean manufacturer: Send more beans they=C2=B4re s=
elling
> like crazy! Oh and Im going to pay you 1 dollar for a million tins
> Bean Manufacturer: Fuck off *click*
>
> You can either
> 1) sell your stuff for a reasonable amount or
> 2) give it away or
> 3) give it to someone else to make all the money from..
>
>
> I choose the first two
>
>
> M
>
>
> --
> Mark Francombe
> www.markfrancombe.com
> www.ordoabkhao.com
> http://vimeo.com/user825094
> http://www.looop.no
> twitter @markfrancombe
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/
>
>

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Subject: making a living
From: David Gans <david@trufun.com>
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Another great post - thank you, Daniel Thomas.

Problem is, there is an endless supply of musicians (or wildly disparate =
soil and taken levels) willing to do the gig, which drives the price =
down into the dirt.


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jan 30 20:49:41 2013
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Subject: Re: Zoe Keating in NY Times article.@borisfx.com
From: Sylvain Poitras <sylvain.trombone@gmail.com>
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Without taking anything away from Per's remarks and without the intent
of sidetracking this interesting discussion, anyone who believes in the
idea of paradigms (irreconcilable conceptual schemes) should read
Davidson's "On the Very Idea of a Conceptual Scheme".

Should such things interest you:
http://files.meetup.com/328570/davidson_on-the-very-idea.pdf

Sylvain


On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 3:38 PM, Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com> wrote:

> Well, if anyone of you happen to NOT read all the news from all
> countries in the world I can report that in Sweden we have seen a
> public release today of a research report on the Swedish music
> industry. An amazing fact is that the industry has grown by 4 percent
> during 2011 - and that is a lot due to the effect of streaming. For
> the first time incomes from streaming and digitally distributed music
> exceeds physical sales, at 56 percent vs 44.
>
> Generally, if one looks into the film and games markets it may show
> that the "recording industry" has not died, just moved to another
> place. An it left behind old inhabitants that didn't care to come
> along in the move (hence a lot of the whining about this) - one very
> typical sign of a "paradigm shift", in case you are familiar with
> Kuhn's book on that:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Kuhn
>
> Greetings from Sweden
>
> Per Boysen
> www.perboysen.com
> http://www.youtube.com/perboysen
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 9:03 PM, Steve Uccello <stevebassbird@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > I have only been skimming through on this thread, so not sure if this
> > totally fits in to it, but I think this awesome, ranting blog post by
> > bassist Jeff Schmidt would interest some of you...?
> >
> > http://beautiful-bass.com/blog/?p=3D398
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: mark francombe <mark@markfrancombe.com>
> > To: loopers-delight <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 11:57 AM
> > Subject: Re: Zoe Keating in NY Times article.@borisfx.com
> >
> > I wont comment on the issues you pointed out on others posts, just
> mine...
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 7:55 PM, Todd Elliott <toddbert@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > The record companies before, at least came from a standpoint of loving
> > music, now the music business is being strangled by the distributors
> (Apple,
> > Spotify etc) Its of course ther own fault for not jumping in quick and
> > building their own online music services, and spent too much time
> stamping
> > on Napster instead... Now the CEO of Napster is a Board member of Spoti=
fy
> > and hes considered a legit businessman... Go figure!
> >
> > Nope. Record companies have always been in the business to make money
> >
> >
> > Didnt say theys weren't, and I dont think that makes them bad per se
> either.
> > I have 2 business, and Id like them to make money, (one does the other
> > doesn't)
> >
> >
> > (even Dischord, or whatever your favorite punk rock label is; they at
> least
> > want to cover their own expenses, which involves selling things for
> cash).
> >
> >
> > No problem with that, where ARE you getting that i want record companie=
s
> to
> > work for free? Did I say that? I think not!
> >
> >
> > They got better at it over time (pop music is now largely a series of
> > formulas, with as many as 8 songwriters working on something).
> >
> >
> > You say NOW largely formula, I can vouch that it wasn't so in the 90s, =
a
> > pair of song writers maybe, but not 6.. So THATS what it takes to sell =
a
> > record now does it, ok, I rest my case, there is OH SO NO money in the
> > business for creativity, that they have to resort to these so called
> > formulas.. how sad...
> >
> >
> > The basic, original business model of record companies relied on them
> > controlling distribution.
> >
> >
> > This is purely a US-centric situation, because the biggest record shop =
in
> > the US was Wallmart.. or some such shit... the majors in Europe often
> had to
> > go thru distribution networks that were wholely seperate, and Indie
> music in
> > particular, which became so all encompassing that all majors had a few
> fake
> > indie companies under their belts (I should know I was on one) had to g=
o
> > thru indie distribution to, A) get in the Indie charts and B) got on
> > alternative TV, like MTV after hours, 120 minutes etc...
> >
> >
> > When people figured out how to (re)distribute it themselves, they
> decided it
> > wasn't worth as much as the record companies were charging.
> >
> >
> > Not true, didn't happen like that at all...
> >
> >
> > When it became easy to get for free, they decided it was free.
> >
> >
> > Also not true, they stole when it became easy to steal, decided it was
> > free??? What kind of bollocks is that?
> >
> > OK; Heres something interesting.
> >
> > There IS something good about Spotify actually!
> > In Norway and Sweden, record sales have been dropping steadily since
> 2001 by
> > 17% per year... Now they didnt manages to start factoring in the sales =
of
> > Downloads till 2006, but it turns out that for the last 2 years RECORD
> > SALES... stop.. damn force of habit... MUSIC SALES HAVE INCREASED!!! Th=
e
> > number of people prepared to pay for music, HAS INCREASED. Why? Because
> > Spotify makes it SO DAMN EASY!!! Yes, IN Norway, people would rathe pay
> 10
> > dollars a month for unlimited access to music, than A) Have Adverts, or
> B)
> > be bothered to track down torrents and steal it.
> >
> > So Spotify is getting people USED to paying again, thats a good thing!
> >
> > So, music sales dead? I dont think so, its just that in the cusp betwee=
n
> > technologies, it was easier to download all the Beatles Albums in one g=
o
> > from Pirate Bay, than to login to iTunes (can ANYONE remember their App=
le
> > ID??)
> > So now, because of that Spotify can charge what they fucking like and p=
ay
> > artists what they fucking like.
> >
> > And that the only thing I don=B4t like... IS THAT SO BAD?
> >
> > Man in Supermarket: How much is that Tin of Beans?
> > Shop Keeper: 2 cents
> > Man in Supermarket: A bargain, Ill have 100 tins then
> > Shop Keeper on phone to bean manufacturer: Send more beans they=B4re
> selling
> > like crazy! Oh and Im going to pay you 1 dollar for a million tins
> > Bean Manufacturer: Fuck off *click*
> >
> > You can either
> > 1) sell your stuff for a reasonable amount or
> > 2) give it away or
> > 3) give it to someone else to make all the money from..
> >
> >
> > I choose the first two
> >
> >
> > M
> >
> >
> > --
> > Mark Francombe
> > www.markfrancombe.com
> > www.ordoabkhao.com
> > http://vimeo.com/user825094
> > http://www.looop.no
> > twitter @markfrancombe
> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/
> >
> >
>
>

--20cf300fb4453a909b04d487a68f
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Without taking anything away from Per&#39;s remarks a=
nd without the intent of=A0sidetracking this interesting discussion, anyone=
 who believes in the idea of paradigms (irreconcilable conceptual schemes) =
should read Davidson&#39;s &quot;On the Very Idea of a Conceptual Scheme&qu=
ot;. =A0</div>
<div><br></div><div>Should such things interest you:=A0<a href=3D"http://fi=
les.meetup.com/328570/davidson_on-the-very-idea.pdf">http://files.meetup.co=
m/328570/davidson_on-the-very-idea.pdf</a></div><div><br></div><div>Sylvain=
<br>
</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">O=
n Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 3:38 PM, Per Boysen <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:perboysen@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">perboysen@gmail.com</a>&gt;<=
/span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Well, if anyone of you happen to NOT read al=
l the news from all<br>
countries in the world I can report that in Sweden we have seen a<br>
public release today of a research report on the Swedish music<br>
industry. An amazing fact is that the industry has grown by 4 percent<br>
during 2011 - and that is a lot due to the effect of streaming. For<br>
the first time incomes from streaming and digitally distributed music<br>
exceeds physical sales, at 56 percent vs 44.<br>
<br>
Generally, if one looks into the film and games markets it may show<br>
that the &quot;recording industry&quot; has not died, just moved to another=
<br>
place. An it left behind old inhabitants that didn&#39;t care to come<br>
along in the move (hence a lot of the whining about this) - one very<br>
typical sign of a &quot;paradigm shift&quot;, in case you are familiar with=
<br>
Kuhn&#39;s book on that:<br>
<a href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Kuhn" target=3D"_blank">http=
://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Kuhn</a><br>
<div class=3D"im HOEnZb"><br>
Greetings from Sweden<br>
<br>
Per Boysen<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.perboysen.com" target=3D"_blank">www.perboysen.com</a=
><br>
<a href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/perboysen" target=3D"_blank">http://www.y=
outube.com/perboysen</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</div><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 9:03 =
PM, Steve Uccello &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stevebassbird@yahoo.com">stevebassb=
ird@yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; I have only been skimming through on this thread, so not sure if this<=
br>
&gt; totally fits in to it, but I think this awesome, ranting blog post by<=
br>
&gt; bassist Jeff Schmidt would interest some of you...?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"http://beautiful-bass.com/blog/?p=3D398" target=3D"_blank">=
http://beautiful-bass.com/blog/?p=3D398</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; ________________________________<br>
&gt; From: mark francombe &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mark@markfrancombe.com">mar=
k@markfrancombe.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; To: loopers-delight &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-deli=
ght.com">Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 11:57 AM<br>
&gt; Subject: Re: Zoe Keating in NY Times <a href=3D"mailto:article.@borisf=
x.com">article.@borisfx.com</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I wont comment on the issues you pointed out on others posts, just min=
e...<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 7:55 PM, Todd Elliott &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:to=
ddbert@gmail.com">toddbert@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; The record companies before, at least came from a standpoint of loving=
<br>
&gt; music, now the music business is being strangled by the distributors (=
Apple,<br>
&gt; Spotify etc) Its of course ther own fault for not jumping in quick and=
<br>
&gt; building their own online music services, and spent too much time stam=
ping<br>
&gt; on Napster instead... Now the CEO of Napster is a Board member of Spot=
ify<br>
&gt; and hes considered a legit businessman... Go figure!<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Nope. Record companies have always been in the business to make money<=
br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Didnt say theys weren&#39;t, and I dont think that makes them bad per =
se either.<br>
&gt; I have 2 business, and Id like them to make money, (one does the other=
<br>
&gt; doesn&#39;t)<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; (even Dischord, or whatever your favorite punk rock label is; they at =
least<br>
&gt; want to cover their own expenses, which involves selling things for ca=
sh).<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; No problem with that, where ARE you getting that i want record compani=
es to<br>
&gt; work for free? Did I say that? I think not!<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; They got better at it over time (pop music is now largely a series of<=
br>
&gt; formulas, with as many as 8 songwriters working on something).<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; You say NOW largely formula, I can vouch that it wasn&#39;t so in the =
90s, a<br>
&gt; pair of song writers maybe, but not 6.. So THATS what it takes to sell=
 a<br>
&gt; record now does it, ok, I rest my case, there is OH SO NO money in the=
<br>
&gt; business for creativity, that they have to resort to these so called<b=
r>
&gt; formulas.. how sad...<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; The basic, original business model of record companies relied on them<=
br>
&gt; controlling distribution.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; This is purely a US-centric situation, because the biggest record shop=
 in<br>
&gt; the US was Wallmart.. or some such shit... the majors in Europe often =
had to<br>
&gt; go thru distribution networks that were wholely seperate, and Indie mu=
sic in<br>
&gt; particular, which became so all encompassing that all majors had a few=
 fake<br>
&gt; indie companies under their belts (I should know I was on one) had to =
go<br>
&gt; thru indie distribution to, A) get in the Indie charts and B) got on<b=
r>
&gt; alternative TV, like MTV after hours, 120 minutes etc...<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; When people figured out how to (re)distribute it themselves, they deci=
ded it<br>
&gt; wasn&#39;t worth as much as the record companies were charging.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Not true, didn&#39;t happen like that at all...<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; When it became easy to get for free, they decided it was free.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Also not true, they stole when it became easy to steal, decided it was=
<br>
&gt; free??? What kind of bollocks is that?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; OK; Heres something interesting.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; There IS something good about Spotify actually!<br>
&gt; In Norway and Sweden, record sales have been dropping steadily since 2=
001 by<br>
&gt; 17% per year... Now they didnt manages to start factoring in the sales=
 of<br>
&gt; Downloads till 2006, but it turns out that for the last 2 years RECORD=
<br>
&gt; SALES... stop.. damn force of habit... MUSIC SALES HAVE INCREASED!!! T=
he<br>
&gt; number of people prepared to pay for music, HAS INCREASED. Why? Becaus=
e<br>
&gt; Spotify makes it SO DAMN EASY!!! Yes, IN Norway, people would rathe pa=
y 10<br>
&gt; dollars a month for unlimited access to music, than A) Have Adverts, o=
r B)<br>
&gt; be bothered to track down torrents and steal it.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; So Spotify is getting people USED to paying again, thats a good thing!=
<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; So, music sales dead? I dont think so, its just that in the cusp betwe=
en<br>
&gt; technologies, it was easier to download all the Beatles Albums in one =
go<br>
&gt; from Pirate Bay, than to login to iTunes (can ANYONE remember their Ap=
ple<br>
&gt; ID??)<br>
&gt; So now, because of that Spotify can charge what they fucking like and =
pay<br>
&gt; artists what they fucking like.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; And that the only thing I don=B4t like... IS THAT SO BAD?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Man in Supermarket: How much is that Tin of Beans?<br>
&gt; Shop Keeper: 2 cents<br>
&gt; Man in Supermarket: A bargain, Ill have 100 tins then<br>
&gt; Shop Keeper on phone to bean manufacturer: Send more beans they=B4re s=
elling<br>
&gt; like crazy! Oh and Im going to pay you 1 dollar for a million tins<br>
&gt; Bean Manufacturer: Fuck off *click*<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; You can either<br>
&gt; 1) sell your stuff for a reasonable amount or<br>
&gt; 2) give it away or<br>
&gt; 3) give it to someone else to make all the money from..<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I choose the first two<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; M<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; --<br>
&gt; Mark Francombe<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"http://www.markfrancombe.com" target=3D"_blank">www.markfra=
ncombe.com</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"http://www.ordoabkhao.com" target=3D"_blank">www.ordoabkhao=
.com</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"http://vimeo.com/user825094" target=3D"_blank">http://vimeo=
.com/user825094</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"http://www.looop.no" target=3D"_blank">http://www.looop.no<=
/a><br>
&gt; twitter @markfrancombe<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/" target=3D"_blan=
k">http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

--20cf300fb4453a909b04d487a68f--

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Subject: Re: Zoe Keating in NY Times article.
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> > The guys making whale blubber were not going to persist in doing it once
> > the market caved, and no one would continue to be interested in their
> > product. If the analogy is to the selling of recordings, not records. i.e
>  .> not to a physical product necessarily, then one must point out that the
> > workers do continue to be interested in the making (that would be
> everyone
> > reading this), and there continues to be a pool of folks interested in
> the
> > results.
> They may be interested in *hearing* the results, but the number of people
> interested in *paying* for them is dwindling, and continues to dwindle.
>

I think you missed his point, which is that the number of people
voluntarily willing to *make* music (with high quality and easy
distribution because of new technology) is large and the vast majority of
those people are not dependent on being paid for it.  If lots of people
were willing to do plumbing for free, the price of plumbers would plummet.

There are only a few things that people will voluntarily do without being
paid, and for which there are currently professions where people can make a
decent living.  In most of those cases, the people being paid well are
highly exceptional and rare - e.g. professional athletes - and sometimes
the rarity is due to marketing or artificial scarcity rather than content,
and in those cases it's the people who market it or create artificial
scarcity that are the ones who get paid.

    ...Tim...

--e89a8f22bc29fad33f04d487d4a3
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<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m=
argin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">&gt; The guys=
 making whale blubber were not going to persist in doing it=A0once<br>
&gt; the market caved, and no one would continue to be interested in their<=
br>
&gt; product. If the analogy is to the selling of recordings, not records. =
i.e<br>
=A0.&gt; not to a physical product necessarily, then one must point out tha=
t the<br>
&gt; workers do continue to be interested in the making (that would be ever=
yone<br>
&gt; reading this), and there continues to be a pool of folks interested in=
 the<br>
&gt; results.<br>
They may be interested in *hearing* the results, but the number of people<b=
r>
interested in *paying* for them is dwindling, and continues to dwindle.<br>=
</blockquote><div><br></div><div>I think you missed his point, which is tha=
t the number of people voluntarily willing to *make* music (with high quali=
ty and easy distribution because of new technology) is large and the vast m=
ajority of those people are not dependent on being paid for it. =A0If lots =
of people were willing to do plumbing for free, the price of plumbers would=
 plummet.</div>
<div><br></div><div>There are only a few things that people will voluntaril=
y do without being paid, and for which there are currently professions wher=
e people can make a decent living. =A0In most of those cases, the people be=
ing paid well are highly exceptional and rare - e.g. professional=A0athlete=
s - and sometimes the rarity is due to marketing or artificial scarcity rat=
her than content, and in those cases it&#39;s the people who market it or c=
reate artificial scarcity that are the ones who get paid.</div>
<div><br></div><div>=A0 =A0 ...Tim...</div></div>

--e89a8f22bc29fad33f04d487d4a3--

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--f46d044787fbc6918404d48806e9
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On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 11:57 AM, mark francombe <mark@markfrancombe.com>wrote:

> I wont comment on the issues you pointed out on others posts, just mine...
>


>
>
>> When people figured out how to (re)distribute it themselves, they decided
>> it wasn't worth as much as the record companies were charging.
>
>
> Not true, didn't happen like that at all...
>

Really? Then why did sales enter the shitter?


>
>
>> When it became easy to get for free, they decided it was free.
>
>
> Also not true, they stole when it became easy to steal, decided it was
> free??? What kind of bollocks is that?
>

It's exactly what happened. When music became readily available for free,
people took it. The morality of downloading music didn't bother them at
all; it became free because people didn't pay for it, and could take it (by
and large) without consequence. They chose to do so.


>
> *OK; Heres something interesting.*
>
> There IS something good about Spotify actually!
> In Norway and Sweden, record sales have been dropping steadily since 2001
> by 17% per year... Now they didnt manages to start factoring in the sales
> of Downloads till 2006, but it turns out that for the last 2 years RECORD
> SALES... stop.. damn force of habit... MUSIC SALES HAVE INCREASED!!! The
> number of people prepared to pay for music, HAS INCREASED. Why? Because
> Spotify makes it SO DAMN EASY!!! Yes, IN Norway, people would rathe pay 10
> dollars a month for unlimited access to music, than A) Have Adverts, or B)
> be bothered to track down torrents and steal it.
>

Ok, so Spotify gets a bunch of money. Do the artists? If I sell a million
records, and get two dollars for it (which is basically what the original
article said), then who cares that people are 'paying for music'?


>
> So Spotify is getting people USED to paying again, thats a good thing!
>

It's great! If you work for Spotify, or are an investor in it. If you
create what they stream, it doesn't matter. Hell, I think I have something
on Spotify. Never seen a nickel.

T


-- 
http://toaster.bandcamp.com

--f46d044787fbc6918404d48806e9
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 11:57 AM, mark f=
rancombe <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mark@markfrancombe.com" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">mark@markfrancombe.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc soli=
d;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra">I wont comment on the issues yo=
u pointed out on others posts, just mine...</div></div></blockquote><div>=
=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;borde=
r-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div=
 class=3D"im">

<div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px=
 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left=
-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">When people figured out how to (re)distribut=
e it themselves, they decided it wasn&#39;t worth as much as the record com=
panies were charging.</blockquote>


<div><br></div></div><div>Not true, didn&#39;t happen like that at all...</=
div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Really? Then why did=
 sales enter the shitter?</div><div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"=
>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div=
 class=3D"im"><div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"marg=
in:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,20=
4);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">


When it became easy to get for free, they decided it was free.=A0</blockquo=
te><div><br></div></div><div>Also not true, they stole when it became easy =
to steal, decided it was free??? What kind of bollocks is that?</div></div>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>It&#39;s exactly what happened=
. When music became readily available for free, people took it. The moralit=
y of downloading music didn&#39;t bother them at all; it became free becaus=
e people didn&#39;t pay for it, and could take it (by and large) without co=
nsequence. They chose to do so.</div>
<div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;=
border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D=
"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>

<br></div><div><b>OK; Heres something interesting.</b></div><div><br></div>=
<div>There IS something good about Spotify actually!</div><div>In Norway an=
d Sweden, record sales have been dropping=A0steadily=A0since 2001 by 17% pe=
r year... Now they didnt manages to start factoring in the sales of Downloa=
ds till 2006, but it turns out that for the last 2 years RECORD SALES... st=
op.. damn force of habit... MUSIC SALES HAVE INCREASED!!! The number of peo=
ple prepared to pay for music, HAS INCREASED. Why? Because Spotify makes it=
 SO DAMN EASY!!! Yes, IN Norway, people would rathe pay 10 dollars a month =
for unlimited access to music, than A) Have Adverts, or B) be bothered to t=
rack down torrents and steal it.</div>
</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Ok, so Spotify gets a bu=
nch of money. Do the artists? If I sell a million records, and get two doll=
ars for it (which is basically what the original article said), then who ca=
res that people are &#39;paying for music&#39;?</div>
<div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;=
border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D=
"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">

<div><br></div><div>So Spotify is getting people USED to paying again, that=
s a good thing!<br></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div=
>It&#39;s great! If you work for Spotify, or are an investor in it. If you =
create what they stream, it doesn&#39;t matter. Hell, I think I have someth=
ing on Spotify. Never seen a nickel.=A0</div>
<div><br></div><div>T</div></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><a=
 href=3D"http://toaster.bandcamp.com" target=3D"_blank">http://toaster.band=
camp.com</a>

--f46d044787fbc6918404d48806e9--

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Dont' know if anyone reads Lefsetz, but here's his take on this:

http://nyti.ms/Xbx7h9

No one ever reads to the end. Wherein it is stated, by both Cliff =
Burnstein and Don Passman, paragons of the old model, that the future's =
so bright they gotta wear shades.

Isn't it funny that the artists are bitching about Spotify. You didn't =
hear them bitching and moaning about Napster, except for Metallica, =
which is now on the Spotify bandwagon. A. Because many of the artists =
were ignorant. B. Because they saw it as a way to get their music into =
the hands of potential fans. Artists are still ignorant, but a little =
knowledge goes a long way. Having been ripped off by record labels =
forever, having seen their incomes go down, they're fearful of the =
future. Want to know what's coming down the pike? Don't ask an artist. =
He'll go on about the glory days of vinyl and recording to tape...and if =
you think either of these are the future, you're unaware that vinyl, =
despite the hoopla of its supposed comeback, still makes up less than 1% =
of total sales. To champion vinyl as the future is to make your =
arguments about Spotify irrelevant, because Spotify pays so much better. =
And the Internet is still the best way to expose your music to fans. You =
used to have to buy it to hear it, or listen endlessly to the radio to =
hear one track.

But now everything is available on YouTube!

YouTube! It snuck in the back door. Because the labels wouldn't license =
Spotify. Time truly is money. As well as opportunity. And credit the =
labels for now knowing this. They all got a piece of Spotify, and =
they're gearing up for streaming... Hell, Jimmy Iovine, the label titan, =
is about to blow up MOG/Daisy. If CD and track sales were the future do =
you think he'd be investing all this time and money? OF COURSE NOT!

What we're seeing is the labels getting smart. Being in front of the =
customer for the very first time. Credit them. This is how you play. By =
developing what people don't even know they want. People didn't know =
they wanted smartphones, but now smartphones own the market. People =
don't know they want to subscribe to streaming services, but they're =
gonna sign up in droves.

For portability.

You've got to pay to get the tracks on your handset. And thousands sync =
like you own them, there's no costly bandwidth involved. But nobody =
seems to know this. The streaming services can't penetrate the public's =
perception. But once the acts start to testify, people will get it and =
spread the word. Yup, expect MOG/Daisy to employ a scorched earth "I =
Want My MTV" campaign. Spotify? MOG/Daisy is poised to wipe it out. As =
for big bad Apple... That's the gang that can't shoot straight, right? =
Selling tracks is like selling CDs. Do you see any Tower Records stores? =
Do you see ANY record stores?

But you keep complaining you can't get paid.

I've got one word for you...SCALE!

Once everybody has a subscription, there's TONS of money involved.

As for who's gonna get it...

The lion's share of revenue for streaming services is paid to rights =
holders.

Assuming you own your rights, that will be a lot.

But don't expect the wannabes or the middle class to profit handsomely. =
Because we live in winner-take-all world. PSY made $8 million from =
YouTube on "Gangnam Style." You put your video up...and not only did no =
one see it, you didn't get paid.

Sucks, doesn't it?

Either you're a superstar or you're nothing.

But that's got nothing to do with music.

There's one Amazon. One Google. There's Android and Apple in =
smartphones. If you think BlackBerry and Microsoft have a chance, you =
own stock.

Furthermore, you now get paid over the life of the copyright. Talk to =
any aged musician, the money's all in the PUBLISHING! You get paid =
forever. The upfront advance was never the size it was with your record =
deal, but now that you're sixty, you still get paid. Make a record that =
sticks, you'll get paid by streaming services for the rest of your life.

Which one?

Could be Spotify, MOG/Daisy or Deezer...Rdio's already history. Will =
only be one. But there  will be a ton of bread.

As for getting someone to pay you to create... Mmm...major labels only =
want hit acts now anyway. They'll always want hit acts. They'll always =
pay for hit acts. So wannabes can use Kickstarter, which may fade in =
power now that people are getting burned, paying and getting nothing. =
But one thing's for sure.  You're now in business with your fanbase. =
Know who each fan is, and sell sell sell and ask ask ask. They'll =
support you, always have. That's what going on the road is all about, a =
fan relationship.

Ignore the hysteria about streaming payments. Just concentrate on making =
great music and building a fanbase. There's plenty of money to be made.

You just don't know it yet.


--=20
Visit the archive: http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/=20
--
http://www.twitter.com/lefsetz
--
If you would like to subscribe to the LefsetzLetter,=20
http://www.lefsetz.com/lists/?p=3Dsubscribe&id=3D1
richard sales
www.glasswing.com
www.richardsales.com
www.hayleysales.com
www.goodnaturefarms.com











On Jan 30, 2013, at 1:16 PM, Todd Elliott wrote:

>=20
>=20
> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 11:57 AM, mark francombe =
<mark@markfrancombe.com> wrote:
> I wont comment on the issues you pointed out on others posts, just =
mine...
> =20
> =20
> When people figured out how to (re)distribute it themselves, they =
decided it wasn't worth as much as the record companies were charging.
>=20
> Not true, didn't happen like that at all...
>=20
> Really? Then why did sales enter the shitter?
> =20
> =20
> When it became easy to get for free, they decided it was free.=20
>=20
> Also not true, they stole when it became easy to steal, decided it was =
free??? What kind of bollocks is that?
>=20
> It's exactly what happened. When music became readily available for =
free, people took it. The morality of downloading music didn't bother =
them at all; it became free because people didn't pay for it, and could =
take it (by and large) without consequence. They chose to do so.
> =20
>=20
> OK; Heres something interesting.
>=20
> There IS something good about Spotify actually!
> In Norway and Sweden, record sales have been dropping steadily since =
2001 by 17% per year... Now they didnt manages to start factoring in the =
sales of Downloads till 2006, but it turns out that for the last 2 years =
RECORD SALES... stop.. damn force of habit... MUSIC SALES HAVE =
INCREASED!!! The number of people prepared to pay for music, HAS =
INCREASED. Why? Because Spotify makes it SO DAMN EASY!!! Yes, IN Norway, =
people would rathe pay 10 dollars a month for unlimited access to music, =
than A) Have Adverts, or B) be bothered to track down torrents and steal =
it.
>=20
> Ok, so Spotify gets a bunch of money. Do the artists? If I sell a =
million records, and get two dollars for it (which is basically what the =
original article said), then who cares that people are 'paying for =
music'?
> =20
>=20
> So Spotify is getting people USED to paying again, thats a good thing!
>=20
> It's great! If you work for Spotify, or are an investor in it. If you =
create what they stream, it doesn't matter. Hell, I think I have =
something on Spotify. Never seen a nickel.=20
>=20
> T
>=20
>=20
> --=20
> http://toaster.bandcamp.com


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	charset=us-ascii

<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Dont' =
know if anyone reads Lefsetz, but here's his take on =
this:<div><br></div><div><a =
href=3D"http://nyti.ms/Xbx7h9">http://nyti.ms/Xbx7h9</a><br><br>No one =
ever reads to the end. Wherein it is stated, by both Cliff Burnstein and =
Don Passman, paragons of the old model, that the future's so bright they =
gotta wear shades.<br><br>Isn't it funny that the artists are bitching =
about Spotify. You didn't hear them bitching and moaning about Napster, =
except for Metallica, which is now on the Spotify bandwagon. A. Because =
many of the artists were ignorant. B. Because they saw it as a way to =
get their music into the hands of potential fans. Artists are still =
ignorant, but a little knowledge goes a long way. Having been ripped off =
by record labels forever, having seen their incomes go down, they're =
fearful of the future. Want to know what's coming down the pike? Don't =
ask an artist. He'll go on about the glory days of vinyl and recording =
to tape...and if you think either of these are the future, you're =
unaware that vinyl, despite the hoopla of its supposed comeback, still =
makes up less than 1% of total sales. To champion vinyl as the future is =
to make your arguments about Spotify irrelevant, because Spotify pays so =
much better. And the Internet is still the best way to expose your music =
to fans. You used to have to buy it to hear it, or listen endlessly to =
the radio to hear one track.<br><br>But now everything is available on =
YouTube!<br><br>YouTube! It snuck in the back door. Because the labels =
wouldn't license Spotify. Time truly is money. As well as opportunity. =
And credit the labels for now knowing this. They all got a piece of =
Spotify, and they're gearing up for streaming... Hell, Jimmy Iovine, the =
label titan, is about to blow up MOG/Daisy. If CD and track sales were =
the future do you think he'd be investing all this time and money? OF =
COURSE NOT!<br><br>What we're seeing is the labels getting smart. Being =
in front of the customer for the very first time. Credit them. This is =
how you play. By developing what people don't even know they want. =
People didn't know they wanted smartphones, but now smartphones own the =
market. People don't know they want to subscribe to streaming services, =
but they're gonna sign up in droves.<br><br>For =
portability.<br><br>You've got to pay to get the tracks on your handset. =
And thousands sync like you own them, there's no costly bandwidth =
involved. But nobody seems to know this. The streaming services can't =
penetrate the public's perception. But once the acts start to testify, =
people will get it and spread the word. Yup, expect MOG/Daisy to employ =
a scorched earth "I Want My MTV" campaign. Spotify? MOG/Daisy is poised =
to wipe it out. As for big bad Apple... That's the gang that can't shoot =
straight, right? Selling tracks is like selling CDs. Do you see any =
Tower Records stores? Do you see ANY record stores?<br><br>But you keep =
complaining you can't get paid.<br><br>I've got one word for =
you...SCALE!<br><br>Once everybody has a subscription, there's TONS of =
money involved.<br><br>As for who's gonna get it...<br><br>The lion's =
share of revenue for streaming services is paid to rights =
holders.<br><br>Assuming you own your rights, that will be a =
lot.<br><br>But don't expect the wannabes or the middle class to profit =
handsomely. Because we live in winner-take-all world. PSY made $8 =
million from YouTube on "Gangnam Style." You put your video up...and not =
only did no one see it, you didn't get paid.<br><br>Sucks, doesn't =
it?<br><br>Either you're a superstar or you're nothing.<br><br>But =
that's got nothing to do with music.<br><br>There's one Amazon. One =
Google. There's Android and Apple in smartphones. If you think =
BlackBerry and Microsoft have a chance, you own =
stock.<br><br>Furthermore, you now get paid over the life of the =
copyright. Talk to any aged musician, the money's all in the PUBLISHING! =
You get paid forever. The upfront advance was never the size it was with =
your record deal, but now that you're sixty, you still get paid. Make a =
record that sticks, you'll get paid by streaming services for the rest =
of your life.<br><br>Which one?<br><br>Could be Spotify, MOG/Daisy or =
Deezer...Rdio's already history. Will only be one. But there &nbsp;will =
be a ton of bread.<br><br>As for getting someone to pay you to create... =
Mmm...major labels only want hit acts now anyway. They'll always want =
hit acts. They'll always pay for hit acts. So wannabes can use =
Kickstarter, which may fade in power now that people are getting burned, =
paying and getting nothing. But one thing's for sure. &nbsp;You're now =
in business with your fanbase. Know who each fan is, and sell sell sell =
and ask ask ask. They'll support you, always have. That's what going on =
the road is all about, a fan relationship.<br><br>Ignore the hysteria =
about streaming payments. Just concentrate on making great music and =
building a fanbase. There's plenty of money to be made.<br><br>You just =
don't know it yet.<br><br><br>--&nbsp;<br>Visit the archive:&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/">http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/</a>&n=
bsp;<br>--<br><a =
href=3D"http://www.twitter.com/lefsetz">http://www.twitter.com/lefsetz</a>=
<br>--<br>If you would like to subscribe to the =
LefsetzLetter,&nbsp;<br><a =
href=3D"http://www.lefsetz.com/lists/?p=3Dsubscribe&amp;id=3D1">http://www=
.lefsetz.com/lists/?p=3Dsubscribe&amp;id=3D1</a><br><div>
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auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
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auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"Arial">richard sales</font></div><div><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#908E38"><a =
href=3D"http://www.glasswing.com">www.glasswing.com</a></font></div><div><=
font class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#908E38"><a =
href=3D"http://www.richardsales.com">www.richardsales.com</a></font></div>=
<div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#908E38"><a =
href=3D"http://www.hayleysales.com">www.hayleysales.com</a></font></div><d=
iv><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#908E38"><a =
href=3D"http://www.goodnaturefarms.com">www.goodnaturefarms.com</a></font>=
</div><div><br></div></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br><div><div>On Jan 30, 2013, at 1:16 PM, Todd Elliott wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><br><br><div=
 class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 11:57 AM, mark francombe =
<span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mark@markfrancombe.com" =
target=3D"_blank">mark@markfrancombe.com</a>&gt;</span> =
wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra">I wont comment on the issues =
you pointed out on others posts, just =
mine...</div></div></blockquote><div>&nbsp;</div><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc =
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"im">

<div>&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px =
0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left=
-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">When people figured out how to =
(re)distribute it themselves, they decided it wasn't worth as much as =
the record companies were charging.</blockquote>


<div><br></div></div><div>Not true, didn't happen like that at =
all...</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Really? =
Then why did sales enter the shitter?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc =
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"im"><div>&nbsp;</div><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left=
-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">


When it became easy to get for free, they decided it was =
free.&nbsp;</blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>Also not true, they =
stole when it became easy to steal, decided it was free??? What kind of =
bollocks is that?</div></div>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>It's exactly what happened. =
When music became readily available for free, people took it. The =
morality of downloading music didn't bother them at all; it became free =
because people didn't pay for it, and could take it (by and large) =
without consequence. They chose to do so.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div =
class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>

<br></div><div><b>OK; Heres something =
interesting.</b></div><div><br></div><div>There IS something good about =
Spotify actually!</div><div>In Norway and Sweden, record sales have been =
dropping&nbsp;steadily&nbsp;since 2001 by 17% per year... Now they didnt =
manages to start factoring in the sales of Downloads till 2006, but it =
turns out that for the last 2 years RECORD SALES... stop.. damn force of =
habit... MUSIC SALES HAVE INCREASED!!! The number of people prepared to =
pay for music, HAS INCREASED. Why? Because Spotify makes it SO DAMN =
EASY!!! Yes, IN Norway, people would rathe pay 10 dollars a month for =
unlimited access to music, than A) Have Adverts, or B) be bothered to =
track down torrents and steal it.</div>
</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Ok, so Spotify gets a =
bunch of money. Do the artists? If I sell a million records, and get two =
dollars for it (which is basically what the original article said), then =
who cares that people are 'paying for music'?</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div =
class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">

<div><br></div><div>So Spotify is getting people USED to paying again, =
thats a good =
thing!<br></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>It's =
great! If you work for Spotify, or are an investor in it. If you create =
what they stream, it doesn't matter. Hell, I think I have something on =
Spotify. Never seen a nickel.&nbsp;</div>
<div><br></div><div>T</div></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- =
<br><a href=3D"http://toaster.bandcamp.com/" =
target=3D"_blank">http://toaster.bandcamp.com</a>
</blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>=

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--047d7b6d99643a8f5504d48880c3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

http://xkcd.com/386/

:)

On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 2:58 PM, mark francombe <mark@markfrancombe.com>wro=
te:

> Another duck and cover post by Mr Walker... get off that digest dude, and
> get yer fists out, Im getting backed into a corner!
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 8:57 PM, mark francombe <mark@markfrancombe.com>w=
rote:
>
>> I wont comment on the issues you pointed out on others posts, just mine.=
..
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 7:55 PM, Todd Elliott <toddbert@gmail.com> wrote=
:
>>
>>>
>>> The record companies before, at least came from a standpoint of loving
>>> music, now the music business is being strangled by the distributors
>>> (Apple, Spotify etc) Its of course ther own fault for not jumping in qu=
ick
>>> and building their own online music services, and spent too much time
>>> stamping on Napster instead... Now the CEO of Napster is a Board member=
 of
>>> Spotify and hes considered a legit businessman... Go figure!
>>
>> Nope. Record companies have always been in the business to make money
>>
>>
>> Didnt say theys weren't, and I dont think that makes them bad per se
>> either. I have 2 business, and Id like them to make money, (one does the
>> other doesn't)
>>
>>
>>> (even Dischord, or whatever your favorite punk rock label is; they at
>>> least want to cover their own expenses, which involves selling things f=
or
>>> cash).
>>
>>
>> No problem with that, where ARE you getting that i want record companies
>> to work for free? Did I say that? I think not!
>>
>>
>>> They got better at it over time (pop music is now largely a series of
>>> formulas, with as many as 8 songwriters working on something).
>>
>>
>> You say NOW largely formula, I can vouch that it wasn't so in the 90s, a
>> pair of song writers maybe, but not 6.. So THATS what it takes to sell a
>> record now does it, ok, I rest my case, there is OH SO NO money in the
>> business for creativity, that they have to resort to these so called
>> formulas.. how sad...
>>
>>
>>> The basic, original business model of record companies relied on them
>>> controlling distribution.
>>
>>
>> This is purely a US-centric situation, because the biggest record shop i=
n
>> the US was Wallmart.. or some such shit... the majors in Europe often ha=
d
>> to go thru distribution networks that were wholely seperate, and Indie
>> music in particular, which became so all encompassing that all majors ha=
d a
>> few fake indie companies under their belts (I should know I was on one) =
had
>> to go thru indie distribution to, A) get in the Indie charts and B) got =
on
>> alternative TV, like MTV after hours, 120 minutes etc...
>>
>>
>>> When people figured out how to (re)distribute it themselves, they
>>> decided it wasn't worth as much as the record companies were charging.
>>
>>
>> Not true, didn't happen like that at all...
>>
>>
>>> When it became easy to get for free, they decided it was free.
>>
>>
>> Also not true, they stole when it became easy to steal, decided it was
>> free??? What kind of bollocks is that?
>>
>> *OK; Heres something interesting.*
>>
>> There IS something good about Spotify actually!
>> In Norway and Sweden, record sales have been dropping steadily since 200=
1
>> by 17% per year... Now they didnt manages to start factoring in the sale=
s
>> of Downloads till 2006, but it turns out that for the last 2 years RECOR=
D
>> SALES... stop.. damn force of habit... MUSIC SALES HAVE INCREASED!!! The
>> number of people prepared to pay for music, HAS INCREASED. Why? Because
>> Spotify makes it SO DAMN EASY!!! Yes, IN Norway, people would rathe pay =
10
>> dollars a month for unlimited access to music, than A) Have Adverts, or =
B)
>> be bothered to track down torrents and steal it.
>>
>> So Spotify is getting people USED to paying again, thats a good thing!
>>
>> So, music sales dead? I dont think so, its just that in the cusp between
>> technologies, it was easier to download all the Beatles Albums in one go
>> from Pirate Bay, than to login to iTunes (can ANYONE remember their Appl=
e
>> ID??)
>> So now, because of that Spotify can charge what they fucking like and pa=
y
>> artists what they fucking like.
>>
>> *And that the only thing I don=B4t like... IS THAT SO BAD?*
>>
>> Man in Supermarket: How much is that Tin of Beans?
>> Shop Keeper: 2 cents
>> Man in Supermarket: A bargain, Ill have 100 tins then
>> Shop Keeper on phone to bean manufacturer: Send more beans they=B4re
>> selling like crazy! Oh and Im going to pay you 1 dollar for a million ti=
ns
>> Bean Manufacturer: Fuck off *click*
>>
>> You can either
>> 1) sell your stuff for a reasonable amount or
>> 2) give it away or
>> 3) give it to someone else to make all the money from..
>>
>>
>> I choose the first two
>>
>>
>> M
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Mark Francombe*
>> www.markfrancombe.com
>> www.ordoabkhao.com
>> http://vimeo.com/user825094
>> http://www.looop.no
>> twitter @markfrancombe
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/
>>
>
>
>
> --
> *Mark Francombe*
> www.markfrancombe.com
> www.ordoabkhao.com
> http://vimeo.com/user825094
> http://www.looop.no
> twitter @markfrancombe
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/
>

--047d7b6d99643a8f5504d48880c3
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<a href=3D"http://xkcd.com/386/">http://xkcd.com/386/</a><br><br>:)<br><br>=
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 2:58 PM, mark francombe =
<span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mark@markfrancombe.com" target=3D"_=
blank">mark@markfrancombe.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Another duck and cover post=
 by Mr Walker... get off that digest dude, and get yer fists out, Im gettin=
g backed into a corner!</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 3=
0, 2013 at 8:57 PM, mark francombe <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
mark@markfrancombe.com" target=3D"_blank">mark@markfrancombe.com</a>&gt;</s=
pan> wrote:<br>


<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra">=
I wont comment on the issues you pointed out on others posts, just mine...<=
/div>


<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan =
30, 2013 at 7:55 PM, Todd Elliott <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:t=
oddbert@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">toddbert@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrot=
e:</div>



<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"color=
:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;margin:0px 0px 0p=
x 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-lef=
t-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">



<br>The record companies before, at least came from a standpoint of loving =
music, now the music business is being strangled by the distributors (Apple=
, Spotify etc) Its of course ther own fault for not jumping in quick and bu=
ilding their own online music services, and spent too much time stamping on=
 Napster instead... Now the CEO of Napster is a Board member of Spotify and=
 hes considered a legit=A0businessman... Go figure!</blockquote>



</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-colo=
r:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">Nope. Record c=
ompanies have always been in the business to make money</blockquote>



<div><br></div></div><div>Didnt say theys=A0weren&#39;t, and I dont think t=
hat makes them bad per se either. I have 2 business, and Id like them to ma=
ke money, (one does the other doesn&#39;t)</div><div><div>=A0</div>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;p=
adding-left:1ex">
(even Dischord, or whatever your favorite punk rock label is; they at least=
 want to cover their own expenses, which involves selling things for cash).=
 </blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>No problem with that, where ARE you=
 getting that i want record companies to work for free? Did I say that? I t=
hink not!</div>


<div>
<div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px=
 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left=
-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">They got better at it over time (pop music i=
s now largely a series of formulas, with as many as 8 songwriters working o=
n something).</blockquote>



<div><br></div></div><div>You say NOW largely formula, I can vouch that it =
wasn&#39;t so in the 90s, a pair of song writers maybe, but not 6.. So THAT=
S what it takes to sell a record now does it, ok, I rest my case, there is =
OH SO NO money in the business for creativity, that they have to resort to =
these so called formulas.. how sad...=A0</div>


<div>
<div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px=
 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left=
-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">The basic, original business model of record=
 companies relied on them controlling distribution.</blockquote>



<div><br></div></div><div>This is purely a US-centric situation, because th=
e biggest record shop in the US was Wallmart.. or some such shit... the maj=
ors in Europe often had to go thru=A0distribution=A0networks that were whol=
ely seperate, and Indie music in particular,=A0which=A0became so all=A0enco=
mpassing=A0that all majors had a few fake indie companies under their belts=
 (I should know I was on one) had to go thru indie distribution to, A) get =
in the Indie charts and B) got on alternative TV, like MTV after hours, 120=
 minutes etc...</div>


<div>
<div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px=
 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left=
-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">When people figured out how to (re)distribut=
e it themselves, they decided it wasn&#39;t worth as much as the record com=
panies were charging.</blockquote>



<div><br></div></div><div>Not true, didn&#39;t happen like that at all...</=
div><div><div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0p=
x 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);bo=
rder-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">



When it became easy to get for free, they decided it was free.=A0</blockquo=
te><div><br></div></div><div>Also not true, they stole when it became easy =
to steal, decided it was free??? What kind of bollocks is that?</div><div>



<br></div><div><b>OK; Heres something interesting.</b></div><div><br></div>=
<div>There IS something good about Spotify actually!</div><div>In Norway an=
d Sweden, record sales have been dropping=A0steadily=A0since 2001 by 17% pe=
r year... Now they didnt manages to start factoring in the sales of Downloa=
ds till 2006, but it turns out that for the last 2 years RECORD SALES... st=
op.. damn force of habit... MUSIC SALES HAVE INCREASED!!! The number of peo=
ple prepared to pay for music, HAS INCREASED. Why? Because Spotify makes it=
 SO DAMN EASY!!! Yes, IN Norway, people would rathe pay 10 dollars a month =
for unlimited access to music, than A) Have Adverts, or B) be bothered to t=
rack down torrents and steal it.</div>



<div><br></div><div>So Spotify is getting people USED to paying again, that=
s a good thing!<br><br>So, music sales dead? I dont think so, its just that=
 in the cusp between technologies, it was easier to download all the Beatle=
s Albums in one go from Pirate Bay, than to login to iTunes (can ANYONE rem=
ember=A0their=A0Apple ID??)</div>



<div>So now, because of that Spotify can charge what they fucking like and =
pay artists what they fucking like.=A0</div><div><br></div><div><b>And that=
 the only thing I don=B4t like... IS THAT SO BAD?</b></div>
<div><br></div><div>Man in Supermarket: How much is that Tin of Beans?<br>S=
hop Keeper: 2 cents</div><div>Man in Supermarket: A bargain, Ill have 100 t=
ins then</div><div>Shop Keeper on phone to bean manufacturer: Send more bea=
ns they=B4re selling like crazy! Oh and Im going to pay you 1 dollar for a =
million tins</div>



<div>Bean Manufacturer: Fuck off *click*</div><div><br></div><div>You can e=
ither=A0</div><div>1) sell your stuff for a reasonable amount or</div><div>=
2) give it away or</div><div>3) give it to someone else to make all the mon=
ey from..=A0</div>



<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>I choose the first two</div><div><br></d=
iv></div><div><br>M<br><br clear=3D"all"><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=
=3D"#888888"><div><br></div>-- <br><i style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-ser=
if;color:rgb(255,255,255);background-color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font style=3D"font-=
family:&#39;trebuchet ms&#39;,sans-serif" size=3D"4"><u>Mark Francombe</u><=
/font></i><br>



<font size=3D"1"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.markfra=
ncombe.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.markfrancombe.com</a><br style=3D"color:=
rgb(51,0,51)"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.ordoabkhao=
.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.ordoabkhao.com</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,=
51)">



<a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://vimeo.com/user825094" target=
=3D"_blank">http://vimeo.com/user825094</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)"=
><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.looop.no/" target=3D"_b=
lank">http://www.looop.no</a><br>



twitter @markfrancombe<br><a href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@=
N00/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/</a><br><=
/font>
</font></span></div></div></div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#8888=
88">
</font></span></blockquote></div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888=
888"><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><i style=3D"font-family:ve=
rdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(255,255,255);background-color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font =
style=3D"font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif" size=3D"4"><u>Mark Francombe<=
/u></font></i><br>


<font size=3D"1"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.markfra=
ncombe.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.markfrancombe.com</a><br style=3D"color:=
rgb(51,0,51)"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.ordoabkhao=
.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.ordoabkhao.com</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,=
51)">


<a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://vimeo.com/user825094" target=
=3D"_blank">http://vimeo.com/user825094</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)"=
><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.looop.no/" target=3D"_b=
lank">http://www.looop.no</a><br>


twitter @markfrancombe<br><a href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@=
N00/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/</a><br><=
/font>
</font></span></div>
</blockquote></div><br>

--047d7b6d99643a8f5504d48880c3--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jan 30 21:54:07 2013
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Subject: Re: Zoe Keating in NY Times article.@borisfx.com
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http://www.isxkcdshittytoday.com

On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 1:50 PM, Jeff Duke <jeffloops@gmail.com> wrote:

> http://xkcd.com/386/
>
> :)
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 2:58 PM, mark francombe <mark@markfrancombe.com>w=
rote:
>
>> Another duck and cover post by Mr Walker... get off that digest dude, an=
d
>> get yer fists out, Im getting backed into a corner!
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 8:57 PM, mark francombe <mark@markfrancombe.com>=
wrote:
>>
>>> I wont comment on the issues you pointed out on others posts, just
>>> mine...
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 7:55 PM, Todd Elliott <toddbert@gmail.com>wrote=
:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> The record companies before, at least came from a standpoint of loving
>>>> music, now the music business is being strangled by the distributors
>>>> (Apple, Spotify etc) Its of course ther own fault for not jumping in q=
uick
>>>> and building their own online music services, and spent too much time
>>>> stamping on Napster instead... Now the CEO of Napster is a Board membe=
r of
>>>> Spotify and hes considered a legit businessman... Go figure!
>>>
>>> Nope. Record companies have always been in the business to make money
>>>
>>>
>>> Didnt say theys weren't, and I dont think that makes them bad per se
>>> either. I have 2 business, and Id like them to make money, (one does th=
e
>>> other doesn't)
>>>
>>>
>>>> (even Dischord, or whatever your favorite punk rock label is; they at
>>>> least want to cover their own expenses, which involves selling things =
for
>>>> cash).
>>>
>>>
>>> No problem with that, where ARE you getting that i want record companie=
s
>>> to work for free? Did I say that? I think not!
>>>
>>>
>>>> They got better at it over time (pop music is now largely a series of
>>>> formulas, with as many as 8 songwriters working on something).
>>>
>>>
>>> You say NOW largely formula, I can vouch that it wasn't so in the 90s, =
a
>>> pair of song writers maybe, but not 6.. So THATS what it takes to sell =
a
>>> record now does it, ok, I rest my case, there is OH SO NO money in the
>>> business for creativity, that they have to resort to these so called
>>> formulas.. how sad...
>>>
>>>
>>>> The basic, original business model of record companies relied on them
>>>> controlling distribution.
>>>
>>>
>>> This is purely a US-centric situation, because the biggest record shop
>>> in the US was Wallmart.. or some such shit... the majors in Europe ofte=
n
>>> had to go thru distribution networks that were wholely seperate, and In=
die
>>> music in particular, which became so all encompassing that all majors h=
ad a
>>> few fake indie companies under their belts (I should know I was on one)=
 had
>>> to go thru indie distribution to, A) get in the Indie charts and B) got=
 on
>>> alternative TV, like MTV after hours, 120 minutes etc...
>>>
>>>
>>>> When people figured out how to (re)distribute it themselves, they
>>>> decided it wasn't worth as much as the record companies were charging.
>>>
>>>
>>> Not true, didn't happen like that at all...
>>>
>>>
>>>> When it became easy to get for free, they decided it was free.
>>>
>>>
>>> Also not true, they stole when it became easy to steal, decided it was
>>> free??? What kind of bollocks is that?
>>>
>>> *OK; Heres something interesting.*
>>>
>>> There IS something good about Spotify actually!
>>> In Norway and Sweden, record sales have been dropping steadily since
>>> 2001 by 17% per year... Now they didnt manages to start factoring in th=
e
>>> sales of Downloads till 2006, but it turns out that for the last 2 year=
s
>>> RECORD SALES... stop.. damn force of habit... MUSIC SALES HAVE INCREASE=
D!!!
>>> The number of people prepared to pay for music, HAS INCREASED. Why? Bec=
ause
>>> Spotify makes it SO DAMN EASY!!! Yes, IN Norway, people would rathe pay=
 10
>>> dollars a month for unlimited access to music, than A) Have Adverts, or=
 B)
>>> be bothered to track down torrents and steal it.
>>>
>>> So Spotify is getting people USED to paying again, thats a good thing!
>>>
>>> So, music sales dead? I dont think so, its just that in the cusp betwee=
n
>>> technologies, it was easier to download all the Beatles Albums in one g=
o
>>> from Pirate Bay, than to login to iTunes (can ANYONE remember their App=
le
>>> ID??)
>>> So now, because of that Spotify can charge what they fucking like and
>>> pay artists what they fucking like.
>>>
>>> *And that the only thing I don=B4t like... IS THAT SO BAD?*
>>>
>>> Man in Supermarket: How much is that Tin of Beans?
>>> Shop Keeper: 2 cents
>>> Man in Supermarket: A bargain, Ill have 100 tins then
>>> Shop Keeper on phone to bean manufacturer: Send more beans they=B4re
>>> selling like crazy! Oh and Im going to pay you 1 dollar for a million t=
ins
>>> Bean Manufacturer: Fuck off *click*
>>>
>>> You can either
>>> 1) sell your stuff for a reasonable amount or
>>> 2) give it away or
>>> 3) give it to someone else to make all the money from..
>>>
>>>
>>> I choose the first two
>>>
>>>
>>> M
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *Mark Francombe*
>>> www.markfrancombe.com
>>> www.ordoabkhao.com
>>> http://vimeo.com/user825094
>>> http://www.looop.no
>>> twitter @markfrancombe
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Mark Francombe*
>> www.markfrancombe.com
>> www.ordoabkhao.com
>> http://vimeo.com/user825094
>> http://www.looop.no
>> twitter @markfrancombe
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/
>>
>
>


--=20
http://toaster.bandcamp.com

--14dae9340cc39be27704d4888c98
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<a href=3D"http://www.isxkcdshittytoday.com">http://www.isxkcdshittytoday.c=
om</a><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 1:50 PM, J=
eff Duke <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jeffloops@gmail.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank">jeffloops@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><a href=3D"http://xkcd.com/386/" target=3D"_=
blank">http://xkcd.com/386/</a><br><br>:)<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=
=3D"h5"><br>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 2:58 PM, mark franco=
mbe <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mark@markfrancombe.com" target=
=3D"_blank">mark@markfrancombe.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Another duck and cover post=
 by Mr Walker... get off that digest dude, and get yer fists out, Im gettin=
g backed into a corner!</div>

<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 3=
0, 2013 at 8:57 PM, mark francombe <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
mark@markfrancombe.com" target=3D"_blank">mark@markfrancombe.com</a>&gt;</s=
pan> wrote:<br>



<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra">=
I wont comment on the issues you pointed out on others posts, just mine...<=
/div>



<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan =
30, 2013 at 7:55 PM, Todd Elliott <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:t=
oddbert@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">toddbert@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrot=
e:</div>




<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"color=
:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;margin:0px 0px 0p=
x 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-lef=
t-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">




<br>The record companies before, at least came from a standpoint of loving =
music, now the music business is being strangled by the distributors (Apple=
, Spotify etc) Its of course ther own fault for not jumping in quick and bu=
ilding their own online music services, and spent too much time stamping on=
 Napster instead... Now the CEO of Napster is a Board member of Spotify and=
 hes considered a legit=A0businessman... Go figure!</blockquote>




</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-colo=
r:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">Nope. Record c=
ompanies have always been in the business to make money</blockquote>




<div><br></div></div><div>Didnt say theys=A0weren&#39;t, and I dont think t=
hat makes them bad per se either. I have 2 business, and Id like them to ma=
ke money, (one does the other doesn&#39;t)</div><div><div>=A0</div>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;p=
adding-left:1ex">
(even Dischord, or whatever your favorite punk rock label is; they at least=
 want to cover their own expenses, which involves selling things for cash).=
 </blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>No problem with that, where ARE you=
 getting that i want record companies to work for free? Did I say that? I t=
hink not!</div>



<div>
<div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px=
 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left=
-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">They got better at it over time (pop music i=
s now largely a series of formulas, with as many as 8 songwriters working o=
n something).</blockquote>




<div><br></div></div><div>You say NOW largely formula, I can vouch that it =
wasn&#39;t so in the 90s, a pair of song writers maybe, but not 6.. So THAT=
S what it takes to sell a record now does it, ok, I rest my case, there is =
OH SO NO money in the business for creativity, that they have to resort to =
these so called formulas.. how sad...=A0</div>



<div>
<div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px=
 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left=
-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">The basic, original business model of record=
 companies relied on them controlling distribution.</blockquote>




<div><br></div></div><div>This is purely a US-centric situation, because th=
e biggest record shop in the US was Wallmart.. or some such shit... the maj=
ors in Europe often had to go thru=A0distribution=A0networks that were whol=
ely seperate, and Indie music in particular,=A0which=A0became so all=A0enco=
mpassing=A0that all majors had a few fake indie companies under their belts=
 (I should know I was on one) had to go thru indie distribution to, A) get =
in the Indie charts and B) got on alternative TV, like MTV after hours, 120=
 minutes etc...</div>



<div>
<div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px=
 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left=
-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">When people figured out how to (re)distribut=
e it themselves, they decided it wasn&#39;t worth as much as the record com=
panies were charging.</blockquote>




<div><br></div></div><div>Not true, didn&#39;t happen like that at all...</=
div><div><div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0p=
x 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);bo=
rder-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">




When it became easy to get for free, they decided it was free.=A0</blockquo=
te><div><br></div></div><div>Also not true, they stole when it became easy =
to steal, decided it was free??? What kind of bollocks is that?</div><div>




<br></div><div><b>OK; Heres something interesting.</b></div><div><br></div>=
<div>There IS something good about Spotify actually!</div><div>In Norway an=
d Sweden, record sales have been dropping=A0steadily=A0since 2001 by 17% pe=
r year... Now they didnt manages to start factoring in the sales of Downloa=
ds till 2006, but it turns out that for the last 2 years RECORD SALES... st=
op.. damn force of habit... MUSIC SALES HAVE INCREASED!!! The number of peo=
ple prepared to pay for music, HAS INCREASED. Why? Because Spotify makes it=
 SO DAMN EASY!!! Yes, IN Norway, people would rathe pay 10 dollars a month =
for unlimited access to music, than A) Have Adverts, or B) be bothered to t=
rack down torrents and steal it.</div>




<div><br></div><div>So Spotify is getting people USED to paying again, that=
s a good thing!<br><br>So, music sales dead? I dont think so, its just that=
 in the cusp between technologies, it was easier to download all the Beatle=
s Albums in one go from Pirate Bay, than to login to iTunes (can ANYONE rem=
ember=A0their=A0Apple ID??)</div>




<div>So now, because of that Spotify can charge what they fucking like and =
pay artists what they fucking like.=A0</div><div><br></div><div><b>And that=
 the only thing I don=B4t like... IS THAT SO BAD?</b></div>
<div><br></div><div>Man in Supermarket: How much is that Tin of Beans?<br>S=
hop Keeper: 2 cents</div><div>Man in Supermarket: A bargain, Ill have 100 t=
ins then</div><div>Shop Keeper on phone to bean manufacturer: Send more bea=
ns they=B4re selling like crazy! Oh and Im going to pay you 1 dollar for a =
million tins</div>




<div>Bean Manufacturer: Fuck off *click*</div><div><br></div><div>You can e=
ither=A0</div><div>1) sell your stuff for a reasonable amount or</div><div>=
2) give it away or</div><div>3) give it to someone else to make all the mon=
ey from..=A0</div>




<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>I choose the first two</div><div><br></d=
iv></div><div><br>M<br><br clear=3D"all"><span><font color=3D"#888888"><div=
><br></div>-- <br><i style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(255,=
255,255);background-color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font style=3D"font-family:&#39;trebu=
chet ms&#39;,sans-serif" size=3D"4"><u>Mark Francombe</u></font></i><br>




<font size=3D"1"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.markfra=
ncombe.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.markfrancombe.com</a><br style=3D"color:=
rgb(51,0,51)"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.ordoabkhao=
.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.ordoabkhao.com</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,=
51)">




<a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://vimeo.com/user825094" target=
=3D"_blank">http://vimeo.com/user825094</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)"=
><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.looop.no/" target=3D"_b=
lank">http://www.looop.no</a><br>




twitter @markfrancombe<br><a href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@=
N00/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/</a><br><=
/font>
</font></span></div></div></div><span><font color=3D"#888888">
</font></span></blockquote></div><span><font color=3D"#888888"><br><br clea=
r=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><i style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;=
color:rgb(255,255,255);background-color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font style=3D"font-fam=
ily:trebuchet ms,sans-serif" size=3D"4"><u>Mark Francombe</u></font></i><br=
>



<font size=3D"1"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.markfra=
ncombe.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.markfrancombe.com</a><br style=3D"color:=
rgb(51,0,51)"><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.ordoabkhao=
.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.ordoabkhao.com</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,=
51)">



<a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://vimeo.com/user825094" target=
=3D"_blank">http://vimeo.com/user825094</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)"=
><a style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51)" href=3D"http://www.looop.no/" target=3D"_b=
lank">http://www.looop.no</a><br>



twitter @markfrancombe<br><a href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@=
N00/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/</a><br><=
/font>
</font></span></div>
</blockquote></div><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br>=
<a href=3D"http://toaster.bandcamp.com" target=3D"_blank">http://toaster.ba=
ndcamp.com</a>

--14dae9340cc39be27704d4888c98--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jan 30 23:44:41 2013
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Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 15:44:42 -0800
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Subject: Re: Re: Zoe Keating in NY Times article.@borisfx.com
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I get a lot of 'quit crying over spilt milk'  kinds of responses
to my own anger about the way that music and musicians have been so 
devalued
in our culture due to the new paradigm shift of downloading (and the 
demise of the CD)

I know it's not going to change (though I have some powerful friends who 
are attempting to
come up with a new paradigm---more on that later),
but what I've noticed is that people are really uncomfortable about
anger being expressed openly in a public forum,  but they seem completely
okay with the major companies being completely usurous and exploitive.
It's a sort of <shrugs shoulders> "regretful but that's the way it is 
and we
are powerless over it."

At the same time,  major corporations spend millions of dollars trying to
improve their images through the media (look at BP after their Gulf of 
Mexico
debacle)...........the major corporations DO listen to public opinion 
and they
do respond when there is a grass roots surge of protest.  Even the 
largest company
on earth, currently,  Apple,  is suddenly scrambling
to try and bring some of their manufacturing back onto US soil because of
universal public displeasure at the disclosures about the slave wage 
conditions
of their Chinese manufacturing sites.

At one point in this country in the last century,
   the major industries heavily exploited their laborers and they rose up
against them and the Labor Unions were created and Child Labor laws
were created and the 40 hour work week was established............all
humanizing and positive influences in our culture.

It took,  however,  major displeasure by the government and industry
and a lot of indignant anger and organizing to forge those changes.

iTunes,  Spotify,  Pandora and their ilk are 
exploitive..........period.   point.   dot.
Apple went from a cool 'underground'  artsy company to the largest 
multi-media
(indeed, purely the largest) company on the planet,   partially because 
of their
technological innovation and partially because of this very exploitation.

Why don't we all just say "NO,  not any more"  to these people?

It has nothing to do with being an old fart.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jan 30 23:50:28 2013
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> I'm thinking Eno had it right : ""I think records were just a little 
> bubble through time and those who made a living from them for a while 
> were lucky. There is no reason why anyone should have made so much 
> money from selling records except that everything was right for this 
> period of time. I always knew it would run out sooner or later. It 
> couldn't last, and now it's running out. I don't particularly care 
> that it is and like the way things are going. The record age was just 
> a blip. It was a bit like if you had a source of whale blubber in the 
> 1840s and it could be used as fuel. Before gas came along, if you 
> traded in whale blubber, you were the richest man on Earth. Then gas 
> came along and you'd be stuck with your whale blubber. Sorry mate – 
> history's moving along. Recorded music equals whale blubber. 
> Eventually, something else will replace it."

Yeah, the difference is that Eno became very, very famous during this so 
called 'bubble'
and now commands very, very large fees for his services. He may be 
correct in his
assertion of what's happening sociologically and technologically, but 
he's a hypocrite when
he says he welcomes this change in culture. He already has 'HIS'. He 
prospers while younger artists around him who have every
possibility of being as innovative as him languish, financially.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jan 30 23:52:45 2013
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Here, Here,  Mark

On 1/30/2013 10:06 AM, mark francombe wrote:
> An artist could expect to make 13% of an album, now it's more like 
> .03%!!!
> All in saying is that sure times change, but why ACCEPT being ripped 
> off by the distributors...
>
> And I never EVER criticized the music biz... it's the Sellers (Apple 
> and Spotify exemplify these) who never EVER take any initiative to 
> find new music, develop artists, work with artists to get them 
> heard... nothing.. they just TAKE, cos theres nothing else....
> That CAN change, we did it in 1976 with punk for a while... we can do 
> it again... Boycott Spotify, Use bandcamp or CDBaby...
> You have a choice... it ain't over till the fat lady puts her song on 
> iTunes.
>
>
> M
>

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Subject: Re: RE: Zoe Keating in NY Times article.@borisfx.com
From: Todd Elliott <toddbert@gmail.com>
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--20cf301d3cde6762b404d48a67c2
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I don't see him saying he welcomes the change, so much as he doesn't care
it's occurring; it may be an easier position to hold when sleeping on a
pile of money, but it doesn't make it an invalid one.

On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Rick Walker <looppool@cruzio.com> wrote:

>
>  I'm thinking Eno had it right : ""I think records were just a little
>> bubble through time and those who made a living from them for a while we=
re
>> lucky. There is no reason why anyone should have made so much money from
>> selling records except that everything was right for this period of time=
. I
>> always knew it would run out sooner or later. It couldn't last, and now
>> it's running out. I don't particularly care that it is and like the way
>> things are going. The record age was just a blip. It was a bit like if y=
ou
>> had a source of whale blubber in the 1840s and it could be used as fuel.
>> Before gas came along, if you traded in whale blubber, you were the rich=
est
>> man on Earth. Then gas came along and you'd be stuck with your whale
>> blubber. Sorry mate =96 history's moving along. Recorded music equals wh=
ale
>> blubber. Eventually, something else will replace it."
>>
>
> Yeah, the difference is that Eno became very, very famous during this so
> called 'bubble'
> and now commands very, very large fees for his services. He may be correc=
t
> in his
> assertion of what's happening sociologically and technologically, but he'=
s
> a hypocrite when
> he says he welcomes this change in culture. He already has 'HIS'. He
> prospers while younger artists around him who have every
> possibility of being as innovative as him languish, financially.
>
>


--=20
http://toaster.bandcamp.com

--20cf301d3cde6762b404d48a67c2
Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I don&#39;t see him saying he welcomes the change, so much as he doesn&#39;=
t care it&#39;s occurring; it may be an easier position to hold when sleepi=
ng on a pile of money, but it doesn&#39;t make it an invalid one.=A0<br><br=
>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Rick Walker <sp=
an dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:looppool@cruzio.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>looppool@cruzio.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex=
">
<div class=3D"im"><br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I&#39;m thinking Eno had it right : &quot;&quot;I think records were just a=
 little bubble through time and those who made a living from them for a whi=
le were lucky. There is no reason why anyone should have made so much money=
 from selling records except that everything was right for this period of t=
ime. I always knew it would run out sooner or later. It couldn&#39;t last, =
and now it&#39;s running out. I don&#39;t particularly care that it is and =
like the way things are going. The record age was just a blip. It was a bit=
 like if you had a source of whale blubber in the 1840s and it could be use=
d as fuel. Before gas came along, if you traded in whale blubber, you were =
the richest man on Earth. Then gas came along and you&#39;d be stuck with y=
our whale blubber. Sorry mate =96 history&#39;s moving along. Recorded musi=
c equals whale blubber. Eventually, something else will replace it.&quot;<b=
r>

</blockquote>
<br></div>
Yeah, the difference is that Eno became very, very famous during this so ca=
lled &#39;bubble&#39;<br>
and now commands very, very large fees for his services. He may be correct =
in his<br>
assertion of what&#39;s happening sociologically and technologically, but h=
e&#39;s a hypocrite when<br>
he says he welcomes this change in culture. He already has &#39;HIS&#39;. H=
e prospers while younger artists around him who have every<br>
possibility of being as innovative as him languish, financially.<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><a href=3D"h=
ttp://toaster.bandcamp.com" target=3D"_blank">http://toaster.bandcamp.com</=
a>

--20cf301d3cde6762b404d48a67c2--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jan 31 00:52:26 2013
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On 1/30/2013 12:24 PM, Daniel Thomas wrote:
> Local musicians cannot do all that much about fat cat greed. But we 
> can stop playing out for dirt wages.  No pearls before swine.
I really agree with you on this, Daniel,  but as someone who's still out 
there in the trenches trying to make a living
wage as a performing musician (with a small amount from the dwindling 
number or people who pay to take music lessons)
there are very, very few decent paying gigs any more.

In the 80's,  it was a point of pride to me not to take less that  a 
couple of hundred bucks for a gig.
In 2012,   I had one gig that paid $60............all others were paid 
less than that.

I am really interested in playing jazz (one of the historically worst 
paying forms of music there is, admittedly,  but also
representing one of the few remaining ways of getting in front of an 
audience where, ostensibly, other gigs
and potential students and studio work can be generated).

In our area the places who pay for jazz musicians to play with offer 
tips and a meal or up to $30 and a meal.
I'm struggling to find out some way to keep living doing what I've done 
professionally for
the last 35 straight years so I've elected to take those low paying gigs.

There are still higher paying gigs (in the $100/person range) in 
Monterey and Carmel, but there are very, very few of
them and the people who have those gigs are jealously holding onto 
them.      Wedding, Parties and Bars that have
constant, employable live music have just dwindled to very, very little.

But as unfair as the sub-liveable wages are, the  restaurant where I 
play, weekly,  couldn't possibly afford to pay more.............for 
them,  it's a labor
of love to have Jazz at their establishment and they are also struggling 
financially.

So,  I'm with you but at this point where we live,  I wouldn't play ever 
in public if I insisted on a liveable wage.

It's a tough nut to crack and I'm not wild about it, to be honest.

respectfully,   Rick

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jan 31 01:52:31 2013
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Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 17:52:30 -0800 (PST)
From: ditch wrestler <ditchwrestler@yahoo.com>
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Subject: TC Ditto loooper review
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---1846104760-1568345361-1359597150=:96146
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=0A=0AA review of the TC Electronic Ditto: http://www.premierguitar.com/Mag=
azine/Issue/2013/Feb/TC_Electronic_Ditto_Looper_Pedal_Review.aspx=0A=0A=0At=
ed=0A=0A=A0=0AOr would you sing somethin' different. Somethin' real. Someth=
in' *you* felt. Cause I'm telling you right now, that's the kind of song pe=
ople want to hear. That's the kind of song that truly saves people. It ain'=
t got nothin to do with believin' in God, Mr. Cash. It has to do with belie=
vin' in yourself.   Sam Phillips, "Walk the Line"
---1846104760-1568345361-1359597150=:96146
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:ti=
mes new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div><br></div><div>A=
 review of the TC Electronic Ditto: http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/I=
ssue/2013/Feb/TC_Electronic_Ditto_Looper_Pedal_Review.aspx</div><div style=
=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: times new roman,new =
york,times,serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><br><=
span></span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-=
family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; background-color: transparent=
; font-style: normal;"><br><span></span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0=
, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; b=
ackground-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>ted</span></div><d=
iv>&nbsp;</div><div>Or would you sing somethin' different. Somethin' real. =
Somethin' *you* felt. Cause I'm telling you right now, that's the kind of
 song people want to hear. That's the kind of song that truly saves people.=
 It ain't got nothin to do with believin' in God, Mr. Cash. It has to do wi=
th believin' in yourself.   Sam Phillips, "Walk the Line"</div></div></body=
></html>
---1846104760-1568345361-1359597150=:96146--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jan 31 02:41:37 2013
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Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 20:19:46 -0500
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: "Emile Tobenfeld (a.k.a Dr. T)" <emile@foryourhead.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Zoe Keating in NY Times article.@borisfx.com
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Looks like I started something
-- 
-- Emile

If you can walk, you can surely DANCE

My photography can be viewed at 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/22231918@N06/collections/72157603627170351/

My videos can be viewed at http://www.youtube.com/Tobenfeld



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On Jan 30, 2013, at 9:32 PM, Rick Walker <looppool@cruzio.com> wrote:

> *Well folks,   iTunes,  one of the greatest rapists of musical =
artistry, in the world charges 50% of ALL DOWNLOAD SALES.**
> **

What is wrong with 50%? I don't think even the Rolling Stones ever got =
50%. Back in the days of records, a new band was lucky to get 5%, 3% was =
common. Check out Magnatune, they share 50% with the artist. Their motto =
is 'we are a record company, but we are not evil'. Unfortunately, their =
business model has had to evolve, because people are not downloading. =
They have shifted to a subscription fee. But you can still listen to a =
whole album for free. For example (shameless plug), =
http://magnatune.com/artists/primavera.


Ed Durbrow
Saitama, Japan
http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=3Dwatch
http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/



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Subject: Re: Zoe Keating in NY Times article.@borisfx.com
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 07:46:33 +0100
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Right on Rick!

Antony Hequet
Poet composer

On 31 janv. 2013, at 00:44, Rick Walker <looppool@cruzio.com> wrote:

> I get a lot of 'quit crying over spilt milk'  kinds of responses
> to my own anger about the way that music and musicians have been so devalu=
ed
> in our culture due to the new paradigm shift of downloading (and the demis=
e of the CD)
>=20
> I know it's not going to change (though I have some powerful friends who a=
re attempting to
> come up with a new paradigm---more on that later),
> but what I've noticed is that people are really uncomfortable about
> anger being expressed openly in a public forum,  but they seem completely
> okay with the major companies being completely usurous and exploitive.
> It's a sort of <shrugs shoulders> "regretful but that's the way it is and w=
e
> are powerless over it."
>=20
> At the same time,  major corporations spend millions of dollars trying to
> improve their images through the media (look at BP after their Gulf of Mex=
ico
> debacle)...........the major corporations DO listen to public opinion and t=
hey
> do respond when there is a grass roots surge of protest.  Even the largest=
 company
> on earth, currently,  Apple,  is suddenly scrambling
> to try and bring some of their manufacturing back onto US soil because of
> universal public displeasure at the disclosures about the slave wage condi=
tions
> of their Chinese manufacturing sites.
>=20
> At one point in this country in the last century,
>  the major industries heavily exploited their laborers and they rose up
> against them and the Labor Unions were created and Child Labor laws
> were created and the 40 hour work week was established............all
> humanizing and positive influences in our culture.
>=20
> It took,  however,  major displeasure by the government and industry
> and a lot of indignant anger and organizing to forge those changes.
>=20
> iTunes,  Spotify,  Pandora and their ilk are exploitive..........period.  =
 point.   dot.
> Apple went from a cool 'underground'  artsy company to the largest multi-m=
edia
> (indeed, purely the largest) company on the planet,   partially because of=
 their
> technological innovation and partially because of this very exploitation.
>=20
> Why don't we all just say "NO,  not any more"  to these people?
>=20
> It has nothing to do with being an old fart.
>=20

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Subject: Re: Zoe Keating in NY Times article.@borisfx.com
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--047d7b2ee30badfa5f04d4917224
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I think you missed my point Todd, I am simply saying that what Spotify has
done here in Scandinavia is placed a simple model for purchasing out there,
that people have accepted, BUT they are not paying the artists, The
consumers are now paying for music again, and it will increase. which means
more to Spotify NOT artists. However if the cut was fair, maybe we would
see some revenue getting to the musicians. It was torrents that killed the
music biz, not downloads or streaming, but all models killed the musicians
wage. CDBaby and Bandcamp both offer alternatives for online sales that
actually are good for artists, So if Spotify has paved the way for the
public to pay for music again, they may be happy to pay using other
services than the rapists. ( to use Ricks original somewhat unpleasant
analogy).

Small correction to Pers comment, the Scandinavian figures are not about
musicians wages, they are total music sales, it says nothing about
musicians earning more. Just the industry, including Spotify. But it DOES
show the markets willingness to pay for music is not dead.

M

Sent from my (advertisement removed)

On 30 Jan 2013, at 22:16, Todd Elliott <toddbert@gmail.com> wrote:



On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 11:57 AM, mark francombe <mark@markfrancombe.com>wrote:

> I wont comment on the issues you pointed out on others posts, just mine...
>


>
>
>> When people figured out how to (re)distribute it themselves, they decided
>> it wasn't worth as much as the record companies were charging.
>
>
> Not true, didn't happen like that at all...
>

Really? Then why did sales enter the shitter?


>
>
>> When it became easy to get for free, they decided it was free.
>
>
> Also not true, they stole when it became easy to steal, decided it was
> free??? What kind of bollocks is that?
>

It's exactly what happened. When music became readily available for free,
people took it. The morality of downloading music didn't bother them at
all; it became free because people didn't pay for it, and could take it (by
and large) without consequence. They chose to do so.


>
> *OK; Heres something interesting.*
>
> There IS something good about Spotify actually!
> In Norway and Sweden, record sales have been dropping steadily since 2001
> by 17% per year... Now they didnt manages to start factoring in the sales
> of Downloads till 2006, but it turns out that for the last 2 years RECORD
> SALES... stop.. damn force of habit... MUSIC SALES HAVE INCREASED!!! The
> number of people prepared to pay for music, HAS INCREASED. Why? Because
> Spotify makes it SO DAMN EASY!!! Yes, IN Norway, people would rathe pay 10
> dollars a month for unlimited access to music, than A) Have Adverts, or B)
> be bothered to track down torrents and steal it.
>

Ok, so Spotify gets a bunch of money. Do the artists? If I sell a million
records, and get two dollars for it (which is basically what the original
article said), then who cares that people are 'paying for music'?


>
> So Spotify is getting people USED to paying again, thats a good thing!
>

It's great! If you work for Spotify, or are an investor in it. If you
create what they stream, it doesn't matter. Hell, I think I have something
on Spotify. Never seen a nickel.

T


-- 
http://toaster.bandcamp.com

--047d7b2ee30badfa5f04d4917224
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=
=3Dutf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div>I think you missed my point Todd, =
I am simply saying that what Spotify has done here in Scandinavia is placed=
 a simple model for purchasing out there, that people have accepted, BUT th=
ey are not paying the artists, The consumers are now paying for music again=
, and it will increase. which means more to Spotify NOT artists. However if=
 the cut was fair, maybe we would see some revenue getting to the musicians=
. It was torrents that killed the music biz, not downloads or streaming, bu=
t all models killed the musicians wage. CDBaby and Bandcamp both offer alte=
rnatives for online sales that actually are good for artists, So if Spotify=
 has paved the way for the public to pay for music again, they may be happy=
 to pay using other services than the rapists. ( to use Ricks original some=
what unpleasant analogy).</div>
<div><br></div><div>Small correction to Pers comment, the Scandinavian figu=
res are not about musicians wages, they are total music sales, it says noth=
ing about musicians earning more. Just the industry, including Spotify. But=
 it DOES show the markets willingness to pay for music is not dead.</div>
<div><br></div><div>M<br><br>Sent from my (advertisement removed)</div><div=
><br>On 30 Jan 2013, at 22:16, Todd Elliott &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:toddbert@=
gmail.com">toddbert@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=
=3D"cite">
<div><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 11:57 AM, m=
ark francombe <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mark@markfrancombe.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">mark@markfrancombe.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><block=
quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc=
 solid;padding-left:1ex">

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra">I wont comment on the issues yo=
u pointed out on others posts, just mine...</div></div></blockquote><div>=
=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;borde=
r-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div=
 class=3D"im">

<div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px=
 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left=
-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">When people figured out how to (re)distribut=
e it themselves, they decided it wasn&#39;t worth as much as the record com=
panies were charging.</blockquote>



<div><br></div></div><div>Not true, didn&#39;t happen like that at all...</=
div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Really? Then why did=
 sales enter the shitter?</div><div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"=
>

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div=
 class=3D"im"><div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"marg=
in:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,20=
4);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">



When it became easy to get for free, they decided it was free.=A0</blockquo=
te><div><br></div></div><div>Also not true, they stole when it became easy =
to steal, decided it was free??? What kind of bollocks is that?</div></div>

</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>It&#39;s exactly what happened=
. When music became readily available for free, people took it. The moralit=
y of downloading music didn&#39;t bother them at all; it became free becaus=
e people didn&#39;t pay for it, and could take it (by and large) without co=
nsequence. They chose to do so.</div>

<div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;=
border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D=
"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>

<br></div><div><b>OK; Heres something interesting.</b></div><div><br></div>=
<div>There IS something good about Spotify actually!</div><div>In Norway an=
d Sweden, record sales have been dropping=A0steadily=A0since 2001 by 17% pe=
r year... Now they didnt manages to start factoring in the sales of Downloa=
ds till 2006, but it turns out that for the last 2 years RECORD SALES... st=
op.. damn force of habit... MUSIC SALES HAVE INCREASED!!! The number of peo=
ple prepared to pay for music, HAS INCREASED. Why? Because Spotify makes it=
 SO DAMN EASY!!! Yes, IN Norway, people would rathe pay 10 dollars a month =
for unlimited access to music, than A) Have Adverts, or B) be bothered to t=
rack down torrents and steal it.</div>

</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Ok, so Spotify gets a bu=
nch of money. Do the artists? If I sell a million records, and get two doll=
ars for it (which is basically what the original article said), then who ca=
res that people are &#39;paying for music&#39;?</div>

<div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;=
border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D=
"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">

<div><br></div><div>So Spotify is getting people USED to paying again, that=
s a good thing!<br></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div=
>It&#39;s great! If you work for Spotify, or are an investor in it. If you =
create what they stream, it doesn&#39;t matter. Hell, I think I have someth=
ing on Spotify. Never seen a nickel.=A0</div>

<div><br></div><div>T</div></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><a=
 href=3D"http://toaster.bandcamp.com" target=3D"_blank">http://toaster.band=
camp.com</a>
</div></blockquote></body></html>

--047d7b2ee30badfa5f04d4917224--

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"Perhaps its time local musicians insist on a living wage to play bars and=20
restaurants who rely on us to make a scene happen (not that I am advocate=20
for musician unions.)"

Seems to me that's *exactly* what you're advocating: collectively=20
bargaining for a fair price for your labour.




--On 30 January 2013 12:24 -0800 Daniel Thomas <danielthomas4@mac.com>=20
wrote:

> Good thread.
>
>
>
> The recording industry is dead and already stinking.  When can we bury
> her and how?  Would any among us begrudge dwindling royalty checks if we
> were just paid a comfortable living wage for playing gigs?
>
>
> Though I am an avid recordist / producer whose phone still rings with
> offers to work, the business of mechanical / publishing royalties has
> never contributed much to my bottom line.  I have 87 releases behind me
> now-- many of them on major labels=E2=80=A6  Only one is still generating =
a
> royalty check and this is but a pittance.      Meanwhile, the very same
> business model has ensured  that fat cats get fatter on the back of work
> I contributed to.
>
>
> Why do we as independent musicians fight for this business model to
> continue?   Barring the smallest sector of our business, the wildly
> famous, most of us never really benefit from the intellectual property
> side of the business or if we do its such a small contribution as to be
> negligible. Add it up over 10-20 years in the business-  what percentage
> of your total income is from royalties or publishing agreements.  For me,
> its less than 10% and the bulk of my compensated work has been in the
> studio!  For most of these royalty generating projects, I actually made
> less per hour in production due to the fact that I had points on the back
> end.  IOW, I would have earned much more had I just been paid the going
> rate for the production work rather than  reducing this rate to negotiate
> for publishing or mechanical royalty.
>
>
> Given this, a big part of me welcomes the  demise of our recording
> industry.  Speaking for myself, I would be happy to give away all of my
> recorded works for all time were I just paid a living wage to perform my
> art.  Or, as a producer/engineer, paid a living wage to make the
> recordings that promote other artist's work.
>
>
> Perhaps its time local musicians insist on a living wage to play bars and
> restaurants who rely on us to make a scene happen (not that I am advocate
> for musician unions.)
>
>
> Recently, I was pitching a band to a wedding event.  A great band.  5 Pro
> musicians.  The bid was for 3 sets, w/ PA and lights.  We pitched at
> 1000.00  A total bargain for 5 pro musicians w/ sound man and all the
> gear to create the spectacle.  The gig was given instead to another local
> band who pitched similar service at $250!  That's about 20 bucks per
> person after gas to the gig.  WTF?!   Musician poverty consciousness
> bringing down the wages of all musicians in the community!  This kind of
> thing hurts us much more directly than greedy fat cats squeezing the
> dying breath from their Babylonian industry.  Local musicians cannot do
> all that much about fat cat greed. But we can stop playing out for dirt
> wages.  No pearls before swine.
>
>
>
> Daniel
>
>
> www.danielshanethomas.com
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jan 30, 2013, at 10:55 AM, Todd Elliott <toddbert@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Dean, Hal <HDean@wcupa.edu> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Eno is not god despite our occasional stabs at setting him up as one. I
> find his analogy not apt.
>
>
>
>
> I don't think he's a god (I mean, have you heard him sing? Yow.). I find
> his comparison astute.
>
>
>
>
> The guys "making" whale blubber were not going to persist in doing it
> once the market caved, and no one would continue to be interested in
> their product. If the analogy is to the selling of recordings, not
> records. i.e. not to a physical product necessarily, then one must point
> out that the workers do continue to be interested in the making (that
> would be everyone reading this), and there continues to be a pool of
> folks interested in the results.
>
>
>
>
> They may be interested in hearing the results, but the number of people
> interested in paying for them is dwindling, and continues to dwindle.
>
>
>
>
>
> I don't think it is entirely true that the people who purchase decide
> value. I'm no economist, but surely the economy of music distribution
> has an element of the "race to the bottom" about it.  Amazon's
> bending of the publishing world to its will is a parallel that has
> received a lot of attention =E2=80=93 the real sufferers there are =
authors.
> BTW, to the extent that theft is a "purchase", then the value is
> zero.  Hmm.
>
>
>
>
> Correct. If no one is willing to pay for something, and they can get it
> for free, the value of it is zero. It's illiquid. I can say my new record
> is $100, but if no one buys it at that price, it has no value. Outside of
> a select circle of folk, people seem to be throwing their discretionary
> income at other things.
>
>
>
>
> But Per makes a compelling case for what I've seen Chris Cutler call a
> "post-musical" world=E2=80=A6 well, maybe that isn't what Chris means by
> the term, but it sounds good=E2=80=A6 I have not really thought much =
about
> that. If that is where we are headed or have arrived, I will hope there
> remains a market at least sufficient to support the undeniable geniuses
> of the world.
>
>
>
>
> There probably will; though the definition of genius may vary. Amanda
> Palmer, who I don't consider any sort of genius, made a million bucks by
> rattling a tin cup on the internet. Any 'revolution' in the way we
> consume music is going to have to come with the understanding that almost
> anyone can get a recording of what you make for free, and will probably
> listen to it in a manner that will make you shudder (over laptop speakers
> from a youtube stream, over earbuds in a poor mp3 rip, etc). The notion
> that people will pay for high quality, or some tangible format, or
> something like that is wrong-- outside of a small group of nerds, no one
> cares. Maybe that small group of nerds can sustain you, but they are
> fickle.
>
>
> 'Getting music out there' is very easy to do. Getting people to pay for
> it is only going to get harder. You can ask nicely for money for your
> recorded music, but that horse got out of the barn years ago, and is
> probably married and living in a different state.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 7:16 AM, mark francombe <mark@markfrancombe.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> The record companies before, at least came from a standpoint of loving
> music, now the music business is being strangled by the distributors
> (Apple, Spotify etc) Its of course ther own fault for not jumping in
> quick and building their own online music services, and spent too much
> time stamping on Napster instead... Now the CEO of Napster is a Board
> member of Spotify and hes considered a legit businessman... Go figure!
>
>
>
>
> Nope. Record companies have always been in the business to make money
> (even Dischord, or whatever your favorite punk rock label is; they at
> least want to cover their own expenses, which involves selling things for
> cash). They got better at it over time (pop music is now largely a series
> of formulas, with as many as 8 songwriters working on something). The
> basic, original business model of record companies relied on them
> controlling distribution. When people figured out how to (re)distribute
> it themselves, they decided it wasn't worth as much as the record
> companies were charging. When it became easy to get for free, they
> decided it was free.
>
>
> T
>
>




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Subject: Re: Zoe Keating in NY Times article.@borisfx.com
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On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 9:21 AM, mark francombe <markfrancombe@gmail.com> wrote:
> Small correction to Pers comment, the Scandinavian figures are not about
> musicians wages, they are total music sales, it says nothing about musicians
> earning more.
> Just the industry, including Spotify. But it DOES show the
> markets willingness to pay for music is not dead.


A clarification! Not a "correction". :-)  Good that this gets more
focus, in case someone took "the industry" for "musician's wages".

Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.perboysen.com
http://www.youtube.com/perboysen

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On 1/30/2013 11:58 AM, mark francombe wrote:
> Another duck and cover post by Mr Walker... get off that digest dude, 
> and get yer fists out, Im getting backed into a corner!
???????     Explain yourself please.................I'm not getting what 
you are saying.

/R.

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Haha just that you the king of starting interesting threads!!!!

Sent from my (advertisement removed)

On 31 Jan 2013, at 12:08, Rick Walker <looppool@cruzio.com> wrote:

> On 1/30/2013 11:58 AM, mark francombe wrote:
>> Another duck and cover post by Mr Walker... get off that digest dude, and get yer fists out, Im getting backed into a corner!
> ???????     Explain yourself please.................I'm not getting what you are saying.
>
> /R.
>

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--20cf307f36b855c67304d499430c
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Back in the time of music being released on physical media, record
companies had to invest a lot of money to get a record out. They'd pay for
the band's time at a professional recording studio, the mastering,
distribution, manufacturing, marketing to radio stations and record stores,
shipping samples, etc... Arguably, they still ripped off the artists, but
even if they weren't, it's easy to see where 70% or so of the cost of a CD
had to go.

Itunes/Amazon/Pandora/Spotify/Amazon/Emusic spend absolutely no money on
the recording of music, the production of physical media, or the promotion
of the artists that they sell. They have to spend money on storing the
media and internet bandwidth. Given the number of songs they sell, they
could give the music providers 80% of the income generated, and still be a
solvent business. However, being a solvent business is not enough. They
have to make billions,so they do so by paying the artists a much smaller
share.

That WAS supposed to be the great thing about buying music online - you
could get an artist's release for $6, and know a substantial portion of
that was going to the artist. Now you pay almost as much on iTunes as you
would for a physical CD a few years ago, and the lion's share of that money
is net profit for Apple.



Ed Durbrow <edurbrow@sea.plala.or.jp> was all:

> What is wrong with 50%? I don't think even the Rolling Stones ever got
> 50%. Back in the days of records, a new band was lucky to get 5%, 3% was
> common. Check out Magnatune, they share 50% with the artist. Their motto is
> 'we are a record company, but we are not evil'. Unfortunately, their
> business model has had to evolve, because people are not downloading. They
> have shifted to a subscription fee. But you can still listen to a whole
> album for free. For example (shameless plug),
> http://magnatune.com/artists/primavera.
>
>
> Ed Durbrow
> Saitama, Japan
> http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch
> http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
>
>
>
>

--20cf307f36b855c67304d499430c
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Back in the time of music being released on physical media, record companie=
s had to invest a lot of money to get a record out. They&#39;d pay for the =
band&#39;s time at a professional recording studio, the mastering, distribu=
tion, manufacturing, marketing to radio stations and record stores, shippin=
g samples, etc... Arguably, they still ripped off the artists, but even if =
they weren&#39;t, it&#39;s easy to see where 70% or so of the cost of a CD =
had to go. <br>
<br>Itunes/Amazon/Pandora/Spotify/Amazon/Emusic spend absolutely no money o=
n the recording of music, the production of physical media, or the promotio=
n of the artists that they sell. They have to spend money on storing the me=
dia and internet bandwidth. Given the number of songs they sell, they could=
 give the music providers 80% of the income generated, and still be a solve=
nt business. However, being a solvent business is not enough. They have to =
make billions,so they do so by paying the artists a much smaller share. <br=
>
<br>That WAS supposed to be the great thing about buying music online - you=
 could get an artist&#39;s release for $6, and know a substantial portion o=
f that was going to the artist. Now you pay almost as much on iTunes as you=
 would for a physical CD a few years ago, and the lion&#39;s share of that =
money is net profit for Apple.<br>
<br><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">Ed Durbrow <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:edurbrow@sea.plala.or.jp" target=3D"_blank">edurbrow@sea.pla=
la.or.jp</a>&gt;</span> was all:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
What is wrong with 50%? I don&#39;t think even the Rolling Stones ever got =
50%. Back in the days of records, a new band was lucky to get 5%, 3% was co=
mmon. Check out Magnatune, they share 50% with the artist. Their motto is &=
#39;we are a record company, but we are not evil&#39;. Unfortunately, their=
 business model has had to evolve, because people are not downloading. They=
 have shifted to a subscription fee. But you can still listen to a whole al=
bum for free. For example (shameless plug), <a href=3D"http://magnatune.com=
/artists/primavera" target=3D"_blank">http://magnatune.com/artists/primaver=
a</a>.<br>

<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
<br>
Ed Durbrow<br>
Saitama, Japan<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=3Dwatch" target=3D"=
_blank">http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=3Dwatch</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/" target=3D"_blank">http://www9=
.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br><br>

--20cf307f36b855c67304d499430c--

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Subject: Re: Re: Zoe Keating in NY Times article.@borisfx.com
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No disrespect meant Rick, but you seriously can't get gigs that make
you more than $50 in Santa Cruz?  I live up in the sticks of Norther
California and I'm pretty sure our local bands/performers can make
more than that just putting on house concert/parties.

I'm just asking because that would be really really sad if that is the
case.  I always assumed that that kind of money was available pretty
readily if a) you had any kind of following or friends willing to come
out for an evening of whatever and b) you were willing to put all the
leg work into creating the gig (which up here is not much more than
finding the place and doing some posters/facebook type stuff.

Is it the glut of musicians and those who want to be in a place like
Santa Cruz that make it so bleak for your finances?

Asked respectfully from my full time day job.

Kevin

On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 4:52 PM, Rick Walker <looppool@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On 1/30/2013 12:24 PM, Daniel Thomas wrote:
>>
>> Local musicians cannot do all that much about fat cat greed. But we can
>> stop playing out for dirt wages.  No pearls before swine.
>
> I really agree with you on this, Daniel,  but as someone who's still out
> there in the trenches trying to make a living
> wage as a performing musician (with a small amount from the dwindling number
> or people who pay to take music lessons)
> there are very, very few decent paying gigs any more.
>
> In the 80's,  it was a point of pride to me not to take less that  a couple
> of hundred bucks for a gig.
> In 2012,   I had one gig that paid $60............all others were paid less
> than that.
>
> I am really interested in playing jazz (one of the historically worst paying
> forms of music there is, admittedly,  but also
> representing one of the few remaining ways of getting in front of an
> audience where, ostensibly, other gigs
> and potential students and studio work can be generated).
>
> In our area the places who pay for jazz musicians to play with offer tips
> and a meal or up to $30 and a meal.
> I'm struggling to find out some way to keep living doing what I've done
> professionally for
> the last 35 straight years so I've elected to take those low paying gigs.
>
> There are still higher paying gigs (in the $100/person range) in Monterey
> and Carmel, but there are very, very few of
> them and the people who have those gigs are jealously holding onto them.
> Wedding, Parties and Bars that have
> constant, employable live music have just dwindled to very, very little.
>
> But as unfair as the sub-liveable wages are, the  restaurant where I play,
> weekly,  couldn't possibly afford to pay more.............for them,  it's a
> labor
> of love to have Jazz at their establishment and they are also struggling
> financially.
>
> So,  I'm with you but at this point where we live,  I wouldn't play ever in
> public if I insisted on a liveable wage.
>
> It's a tough nut to crack and I'm not wild about it, to be honest.
>
> respectfully,   Rick
>



-- 
Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and to have a
form. That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all trouble.

- Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)

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Subject: Listen to Galactic Travels
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GALACTIC TRAVELS ON WDIY
http://galactictravels.info

Tonight at 11 pm EST/GMT-5 on Galactic Travels, I'll conclude the 
month-long Special Focus on Mystified.  The Featured CD at Midnight will 
be "Breathe Beyond" on Parkbench Records.  The Special Focus page is at: 
http://soundscapes.us/gt/playlists/2013/focus.html#jan

Galactic Travels is an electronic, ambient, and space music show that 
airs each Thursday at 11:04 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and Bethlehem, 
93.9 FM in Easton and Phillipsburg, 93.7 FM in Fogelsville and 
Trexlertown, on the internet, and in High Definition Radio at 88.1 FM.  
Listen at http://wdiy.org on the internet.

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Subject: making a living
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I honestly don't think Rick is exaggerating.  There are tons of gigs in =
Northern California, and most of 'em pay shit. =20

I occasionally get to open a show at Slim's or the Great American Music =
Hall, usually for $250 or so.  But a "headline" or co-bill at the Starry =
Plough or Don Quixote's is a door deal, with a deception for the club's =
overhead, etc., and they like to keep the ticket prices down to get more =
people in the door to buy beer - and of course, they don't offer the =
entertainers a share of the bar take.


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Subject: Re: making a living
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Sorry.  "Deduction," not "deception."  But hey...



On Jan 31, 2013, at 12:39 PM, David Gans <david@trufun.com> wrote:

> I occasionally get to open a show at Slim's or the Great American =
Music Hall, usually for $250 or so.  But a "headline" or co-bill at the =
Starry Plough or Don Quixote's is a door deal, with a deception for the =
club's overhead, etc., and they like to keep the ticket prices down to =
get more people in the door to buy beer - and of course, they don't =
offer the entertainers a share of the bar take.

David Gans - david@trufun.com or david@gdhour.com
Truth and Fun, Inc., 484 Lake Park Ave. #102, Oakland CA 94610-2730
Blog:  http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com
Web site: http://www.dgans.com
Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dgans
Music: http://www.cdbaby.com/all/dgans




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--14dae93405c74b7ad104d49c198e
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

as someone who still gets paid in a percentage in beer sales, deception for
the club's overhead isn't that far off...

On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 2:52 PM, David Gans <david@trufun.com> wrote:

>
>
> Sorry.  "Deduction," not "deception."  But hey...
>
>
>
> On Jan 31, 2013, at 12:39 PM, David Gans <david@trufun.com> wrote:
>
> > I occasionally get to open a show at Slim's or the Great American Music
> Hall, usually for $250 or so.  But a "headline" or co-bill at the Starry
> Plough or Don Quixote's is a door deal, with a deception for the club's
> overhead, etc., and they like to keep the ticket prices down to get more
> people in the door to buy beer - and of course, they don't offer the
> entertainers a share of the bar take.
>
> David Gans - david@trufun.com or david@gdhour.com
> Truth and Fun, Inc., 484 Lake Park Ave. #102, Oakland CA 94610-2730
> Blog:  http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com
> Web site: http://www.dgans.com
> Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dgans
> Music: http://www.cdbaby.com/all/dgans
>
>
>
>
>

--14dae93405c74b7ad104d49c198e
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

as someone who still gets paid in a percentage in beer sales, deception for=
 the club&#39;s overhead isn&#39;t that far off...<br><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 2:52 PM, David Gans <spa=
n dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:david@trufun.com" target=3D"_blank">dav=
id@trufun.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PA=
DDING-LEFT:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"><br><br>Sorry. =A0&quot;Deduction,&qu=
ot; not &quot;deception.&quot; =A0But hey...<br>
<div class=3D"im"><br><br><br>On Jan 31, 2013, at 12:39 PM, David Gans &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:david@trufun.com">david@trufun.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br>=
&gt; I occasionally get to open a show at Slim&#39;s or the Great American =
Music Hall, usually for $250 or so. =A0But a &quot;headline&quot; or co-bil=
l at the Starry Plough or Don Quixote&#39;s is a door deal, with a deceptio=
n for the club&#39;s overhead, etc., and they like to keep the ticket price=
s down to get more people in the door to buy beer - and of course, they don=
&#39;t offer the entertainers a share of the bar take.<br>

<br></div>David Gans - <a href=3D"mailto:david@trufun.com">david@trufun.com=
</a> or <a href=3D"mailto:david@gdhour.com">david@gdhour.com</a><br>Truth a=
nd Fun, Inc., 484 Lake Park Ave. #102, Oakland CA 94610-2730<br>Blog: =A0<a=
 href=3D"http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com/" target=3D"_blank">http://cloudsur=
fing.gdhour.com</a><br>

Web site: <a href=3D"http://www.dgans.com/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.dg=
ans.com</a><br>Photos: <a href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/photos/dgans" targe=
t=3D"_blank">http://www.flickr.com/photos/dgans</a><br>Music: <a href=3D"ht=
tp://www.cdbaby.com/all/dgans" target=3D"_blank">http://www.cdbaby.com/all/=
dgans</a><br>

<br><br><br><br></blockquote></div><br>

--14dae93405c74b7ad104d49c198e--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jan 31 21:16:14 2013
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From: Daniel Thomas <danielthomas4@mac.com>
Message-id: <3BFB540B-BD7A-405C-9931-708231F483CE@mac.com>
Subject: Re: Zoe Keating in NY Times article.@borisfx.com
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 13:16:09 -0800
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 <5109C04D.9040307@cruzio.com>
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--Boundary_(ID_nTv+6h9U0R6fRSjvZp3nIA)
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>> where I play, weekly,  couldn't possibly afford to pay more.............for them,  it's a labor of love to have Jazz at their establishment and they are also struggling
>> financially.

I think perhaps I offended you, Rick.  It was not at all my intention--  if I did , I apologize.  Surely you know, my brother, bandmate and friend, that you have my total respect.

I hope that all members of this list are playing music for the love of it--  and certainly, we should all invest our energies in the musics that we are drawn to whether or not there is a dime to be found in it.  But--  playing a low comp gig for the love of it need not gut the financial motive in professional musicianship.  

Imagine if plumbers or electricians took such a stance.  Presumably, many in the trades are drawn to the work as a labor of love.  They may engage all kinds of low compensation projects for this reason.  But that does not mean that they run their bank accounts as a labor of love.  Finance is a labor of self-discipline.  This discipline which fosters self-respect, professional credibility and responsibility (as in- the Ability to Respond to challenges). 

Yes, I have a corporate media production gig for which I am very grateful -- it has been utterly necessary for my families well being.   That said, indie music performance and production remains a substantial portion of my monthly income.  More than 25% of my income in 2012 came from reasonably compensated entertainment industry gigs that have nothing what so ever to do with my Silicon Valley gig.  Granted -much of the work comes from outside California, but its not like I am standing on the sidelines of the music business making flippant comments about the plight of being an artist.  

>> It's a tough nut to crack and I'm not wild about it, to be honest.

> No disrespect meant Rick, but you seriously can't get gigs that make you more than $50 in Santa Cruz?  

>  a "headline" or co-bill at the Starry Plough or Don Quixote's is a door deal, with a deduction for the club's overhead, etc., and they like to keep the ticket prices down to get more people in the door to buy beer - and of course, they don't offer the entertainers a share of the bar take.


While playing in Danjuma Adamu's african funk band, Onola,(2008-2011) I managed the bookings.  When I joined the group we  were earning a dismal $25 per man per night on average and playing out about 7 times per month!   I guess you could say-  I really love African music. :)    But, I also really love artists and I believe we have inherent value that must be articulated and defended if it is ever to be recognized and compensated.  

For these reasons, I took on the booking responsibility for Onola.  The band agreed to a minimum income standard to which we would all make ourselves available as a top priority.  Anything beneath this standard required me to get buy in from band members before committing.  But, if the gig met or beat the standard, I was free to book and presume flexible availability of all band members.  With this agreement in place, we began saying no to gigs that were beneath the standard.  Where labor of love factors prevailed, we had a process by which to make exceptions..  and we certainly did so when it was good for the art, the band, or the community--but we I did not allow this to replace the standard valuation for our band.  

With this approach,  our band compensation increased to >$100 per man /gig on average in less than 3 months.   In addition to this, our band leader began earning a band leaders cut above and beyond the base line comp for the band members.  And, we were able to shave ten percent off of every gig for the band fund which facilitated future bookings and promotions of a similar caliber.

Of course, the approach did reduce  the number of times we played out each month-- to about once a week.  But, we made more money on the whole, worked less, and enjoyed higher quality gigs-- many in the very same venues (DXs, Fernwood, Moes, etc).  

In order to make it all work, we had to take more out of town gigs (Big Sur, Monterey, San Fran, etc.)  and, most importantly we had to hew closely to what our clients wanted (accessible Reggae and Funk .. Less african diaspora percussion jamming. ) But without a doubt, when we started saying no, we stopped getting calls for low ball gigs and got more calls for reasonably compensated gigs.  We even had success getting venues to increase our compensation by negotiating a commitment to increase compensation as we increased attendance / bar sales. One venue in the tiny community of Big Sur doubled our pay over the course of two months under such a negotiation!  Though Onola is no more, that particular venue still calls me  looking for "another act of similar caliber."   


Artists!  You are worthy of compensation and the credibility that goes with it!  The price of Artistry need not be suffering.    
:)

with genuine appreciation for the many great minds and artists on this list. 

Daniel Thomas





www.danielshanethomas.com

On Jan 30, 2013, at 4:52 PM, Rick Walker <looppool@cruzio.com> wrote:

> On 1/30/2013 12:24 PM, Daniel Thomas wrote:
>> Local musicians cannot do all that much about fat cat greed. But we can stop playing out for dirt wages.  No pearls before swine.
> I really agree with you on this, Daniel,  but as someone who's still out there in the trenches trying to make a living
> wage as a performing musician (with a small amount from the dwindling number or people who pay to take music lessons)
> there are very, very few decent paying gigs any more.
> 
> In the 80's,  it was a point of pride to me not to take less that  a couple of hundred bucks for a gig.
> In 2012,   I had one gig that paid $60............all others were paid less than that.
> 
> I am really interested in playing jazz (one of the historically worst paying forms of music there is, admittedly,  but also
> representing one of the few remaining ways of getting in front of an audience where, ostensibly, other gigs
> and potential students and studio work can be generated).
> 
> In our area the places who pay for jazz musicians to play with offer tips and a meal or up to $30 and a meal.
> I'm struggling to find out some way to keep living doing what I've done professionally for
> the last 35 straight years so I've elected to take those low paying gigs.
> 
> There are still higher paying gigs (in the $100/person range) in Monterey and Carmel, but there are very, very few of
> them and the people who have those gigs are jealously holding onto them.      Wedding, Parties and Bars that have
> constant, employable live music have just dwindled to very, very little.
> 
> But as unfair as the sub-liveable wages are, the  restaurant where I play, weekly,  couldn't possibly afford to pay more.............for them,  it's a labor
> of love to have Jazz at their establishment and they are also struggling financially.
> 
> So,  I'm with you but at this point where we live,  I wouldn't play ever in public if I insisted on a liveable wage.
> 
> It's a tough nut to crack and I'm not wild about it, to be honest.
> 
> respectfully,   Rick
> 


--Boundary_(ID_nTv+6h9U0R6fRSjvZp3nIA)
Content-type: text/html; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dwindows-1252"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
"><div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">where I =
play,&nbsp;weekly, &nbsp;couldn't possibly afford to pay =
more.............for them, &nbsp;it's a&nbsp;labor&nbsp;of love to have =
Jazz at their establishment and they are also =
struggling<br>financially.<br></blockquote></blockquote><br></div><div>I =
think perhaps I offended you, Rick. &nbsp;It was not at all my =
intention-- &nbsp;if I did , I apologize. &nbsp;Surely you know, my =
brother, bandmate and friend, that you have my total =
respect.</div><div><br></div><div><div>I hope that all members of this =
list are playing music for the love of it-- &nbsp;and certainly, we =
should all invest our energies in the musics that we are drawn to =
whether or not there is a dime to be found in it. &nbsp;But-- =
&nbsp;playing a low comp gig for the love of it need not gut the =
financial motive in professional musicianship. =
&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Imagine if plumbers or electricians took =
such a stance. &nbsp;Presumably, many in the trades are drawn to the =
work as a labor of love. &nbsp;They may engage all kinds of low =
compensation projects for this reason. &nbsp;But that does not mean that =
they run their bank accounts as a labor of love. &nbsp;Finance is a =
labor of self-discipline. &nbsp;This discipline which fosters =
self-respect, professional credibility and responsibility (as in- the =
Ability to Respond to =
challenges).&nbsp;</div></div><div><br></div><div>Yes, I have a =
corporate media production gig for which I am very grateful -- it has =
been utterly necessary for my families well being. &nbsp; That said, =
indie music performance and production remains a substantial portion of =
my monthly income. &nbsp;More than 25% of my income in 2012 came from =
reasonably compensated entertainment industry gigs that have nothing =
what so ever to do with my Silicon Valley gig. &nbsp;Granted -much of =
the work comes from outside California, but its not like I am standing =
on the sidelines of the music business making flippant comments about =
the plight of being an artist. =
&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">It's a tough nut to crack and I'm not wild about it, to be =
honest.</blockquote></blockquote><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">No =
disrespect meant Rick, but you seriously can't get gigs that =
make&nbsp;you more than $50 in Santa Cruz? =
&nbsp;</blockquote><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">&nbsp;a "headline" or =
co-bill at the Starry Plough or Don Quixote's is a door deal, with a =
deduction for the club's overhead, etc., and they like to keep the =
ticket prices down to get more people in the door to buy beer - and of =
course, they don't offer the entertainers a share of the bar =
take.</blockquote><br></div><div><br><div><div>While playing in Danjuma =
Adamu's african funk band, Onola,(2008-2011) I managed the bookings. =
&nbsp;When I joined the group we &nbsp;were earning a dismal $25 per man =
per night on average and playing out about 7 times per month! =
&nbsp;&nbsp;I guess you could say- &nbsp;I really love African music. :) =
&nbsp; &nbsp;But, I also really love artists and I believe we have =
inherent value that must be articulated and defended if it is ever to be =
recognized and compensated. &nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>For these =
reasons, I took on the booking responsibility for Onola. &nbsp;The band =
agreed to a minimum income standard to which we would all make ourselves =
available as a top priority. &nbsp;Anything beneath this standard =
required me to get buy in from band members before committing. =
&nbsp;But, if the gig met or beat the standard, I was free to book and =
presume flexible availability of all band members. &nbsp;With this =
agreement in place, we began saying no to gigs that were beneath the =
standard. &nbsp;Where labor of love factors prevailed, we had a process =
by which to make exceptions.. &nbsp;and we certainly did so when it was =
good for the art, the band, or the community--but we I did not allow =
this to replace the standard valuation for our band. =
&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>With this approach, &nbsp;our band =
compensation increased to &gt;$100 per man /gig on average in less than =
3 months. &nbsp; In addition to this, our band leader began earning a =
band leaders cut above and beyond the base line comp for the band =
members. &nbsp;And, we were able to shave ten percent off of every gig =
for the band fund which facilitated future bookings and promotions of a =
similar caliber.</div><div><br></div><div>Of course, the approach did =
reduce &nbsp;the number of times we played out each month-- to about =
once a week. &nbsp;But, we made more money on the whole, worked less, =
and enjoyed higher quality gigs-- many in the very same venues (DXs, =
Fernwood, Moes, etc). &nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>In order to make =
it all work, we had to take more out of town gigs (Big Sur, Monterey, =
San Fran, etc.) &nbsp;and,&nbsp;<b><u>most importantly we had to hew =
closely to what our clients wanted</u></b>&nbsp;(accessible Reggae and =
Funk .. Less african diaspora percussion jamming. ) But without a doubt, =
when we started saying no, we stopped getting calls for low ball gigs =
and got more calls for reasonably compensated gigs. &nbsp;<b><u>We even =
had success getting venues to increase our compensation by negotiating a =
commitment to increase compensation as we increased attendance / bar =
sales</u></b>. One venue in the tiny community of Big Sur doubled our =
pay over the course of two months under such a negotiation! &nbsp;Though =
Onola is no more, that particular venue still calls me &nbsp;looking for =
"another act of similar caliber." =
&nbsp;&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div style=3D"font-size: =
16px; "><font size=3D"4">Artists! &nbsp;You are worthy of compensation =
and the credibility&nbsp;that&nbsp;goes with it! &nbsp;The price of =
Artistry need not be&nbsp;</font><font size=3D"4">suffering.<b>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;</b></font></div><div>:)</div><div style=3D"font-size: 16px; =
"><br></div><div style=3D"font-size: 16px; ">with genuine appreciation =
for the many great minds and artists on this =
list.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Daniel =
Thomas</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><d=
iv><br></div><div><a =
href=3D"http://www.danielshanethomas.com/">www.danielshanethomas.com</a></=
div></div></div></div><div><br></div><div><div>On Jan 30, 2013, at 4:52 =
PM, Rick Walker &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:looppool@cruzio.com">looppool@cruzio.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">On 1/30/2013 12:24 PM, Daniel Thomas wrote:<br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Local musicians cannot do all that much about fat cat =
greed. But we can stop playing out for dirt wages. &nbsp;No pearls =
before swine.<br></blockquote>I really agree with you on this, Daniel, =
&nbsp;but as someone who's still out there in the trenches trying to =
make a living<br>wage as a performing musician (with a small amount from =
the dwindling number or people who pay to take music lessons)<br>there =
are very, very few decent paying gigs any more.<br><br>In the 80's, =
&nbsp;it was a point of pride to me not to take less that &nbsp;a couple =
of hundred bucks for a gig.<br>In 2012, &nbsp;&nbsp;I had one gig that =
paid $60............all others were paid less than that.<br><br>I am =
really interested in playing jazz (one of the historically worst paying =
forms of music there is, admittedly, &nbsp;but also<br>representing one =
of the few remaining ways of getting in front of an audience where, =
ostensibly, other gigs<br>and potential students and studio work can be =
generated).<br><br>In our area the places who pay for jazz musicians to =
play with offer tips and a meal or up to $30 and a meal.<br>I'm =
struggling to find out some way to keep living doing what I've done =
professionally for<br>the last 35 straight years so I've elected to take =
those low paying gigs.<br><br>There are still higher paying gigs (in the =
$100/person range) in Monterey and Carmel, but there are very, very few =
of<br>them and the people who have those gigs are jealously holding onto =
them. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Wedding, Parties and Bars that =
have<br>constant, employable live music have just dwindled to very, very =
little.<br><br>But as unfair as the sub-liveable wages are, the =
&nbsp;restaurant where I play, weekly, &nbsp;couldn't possibly afford to =
pay more.............for them, &nbsp;it's a labor<br>of love to have =
Jazz at their establishment and they are also struggling =
financially.<br><br>So, &nbsp;I'm with you but at this point where we =
live, &nbsp;I wouldn't play ever in public if I insisted on a liveable =
wage.<br><br>It's a tough nut to crack and I'm not wild about it, to be =
honest.<br><br>respectfully, =
&nbsp;&nbsp;Rick<br><br></blockquote></div><br></body></html>=

--Boundary_(ID_nTv+6h9U0R6fRSjvZp3nIA)--

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--14dae9340dd1d2c4c004d49c2e88
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I'd love to get paid in beer. Or at all. Having a gig where I'm not nearly
thrown out would be nice, too. Well, that only happened the one time in the
three gigs I played last year, but I digress.

In short, give me beer.

T

On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 1:13 PM, Charlie M <pilotcp@gmail.com> wrote:

> as someone who still gets paid in a percentage in beer sales, deception
> for the club's overhead isn't that far off...
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 2:52 PM, David Gans <david@trufun.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Sorry.  "Deduction," not "deception."  But hey...
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 31, 2013, at 12:39 PM, David Gans <david@trufun.com> wrote:
>>
>> > I occasionally get to open a show at Slim's or the Great American Music
>> Hall, usually for $250 or so.  But a "headline" or co-bill at the Starry
>> Plough or Don Quixote's is a door deal, with a deception for the club's
>> overhead, etc., and they like to keep the ticket prices down to get more
>> people in the door to buy beer - and of course, they don't offer the
>> entertainers a share of the bar take.
>>
>> David Gans - david@trufun.com or david@gdhour.com
>> Truth and Fun, Inc., 484 Lake Park Ave. #102, Oakland CA 94610-2730
>> Blog:  http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com
>> Web site: http://www.dgans.com
>> Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dgans
>> Music: http://www.cdbaby.com/all/dgans
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>


-- 
http://toaster.bandcamp.com

--14dae9340dd1d2c4c004d49c2e88
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I&#39;d love to get paid in beer. Or at all. Having a gig where I&#39;m not=
 nearly thrown out would be nice, too. Well, that only happened the one tim=
e in the three gigs I played last year, but I digress.<div><br></div><div>
In short, give me beer.</div><div><br></div><div>T<br><br><div class=3D"gma=
il_quote">On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 1:13 PM, Charlie M <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:pilotcp@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">pilotcp@gmail.com</a=
>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">as someone who still gets paid in a percenta=
ge in beer sales, deception for the club&#39;s overhead isn&#39;t that far =
off...<div class=3D"HOEnZb">
<div class=3D"h5"><br><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 2:52 PM, David Gans <spa=
n dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:david@trufun.com" target=3D"_blank">dav=
id@trufun.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PA=
DDING-LEFT:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"><br><br>Sorry. =A0&quot;Deduction,&qu=
ot; not &quot;deception.&quot; =A0But hey...<br>
<div><br><br><br>On Jan 31, 2013, at 12:39 PM, David Gans &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:david@trufun.com" target=3D"_blank">david@trufun.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br=
><br>&gt; I occasionally get to open a show at Slim&#39;s or the Great Amer=
ican Music Hall, usually for $250 or so. =A0But a &quot;headline&quot; or c=
o-bill at the Starry Plough or Don Quixote&#39;s is a door deal, with a dec=
eption for the club&#39;s overhead, etc., and they like to keep the ticket =
prices down to get more people in the door to buy beer - and of course, the=
y don&#39;t offer the entertainers a share of the bar take.<br>


<br></div>David Gans - <a href=3D"mailto:david@trufun.com" target=3D"_blank=
">david@trufun.com</a> or <a href=3D"mailto:david@gdhour.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">david@gdhour.com</a><br>Truth and Fun, Inc., 484 Lake Park Ave. #102, =
Oakland CA 94610-2730<br>
Blog: =A0<a href=3D"http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com/" target=3D"_blank">http=
://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com</a><br>

Web site: <a href=3D"http://www.dgans.com/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.dg=
ans.com</a><br>Photos: <a href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/photos/dgans" targe=
t=3D"_blank">http://www.flickr.com/photos/dgans</a><br>Music: <a href=3D"ht=
tp://www.cdbaby.com/all/dgans" target=3D"_blank">http://www.cdbaby.com/all/=
dgans</a><br>


<br><br><br><br></blockquote></div><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br>=
<a href=3D"http://toaster.bandcamp.com" target=3D"_blank">http://toaster.ba=
ndcamp.com</a>
</div>

--14dae9340dd1d2c4c004d49c2e88--

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Subject: getting paid
From: David Gans <david@trufun.com>
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Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 13:54:09 -0800
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On Jan 31, 2013, at 1:16 PM, Daniel Thomas <danielthomas4@mac.com> =
wrote:


>=20
> playing a low comp gig for the love of it need not gut the financial =
motive in professional musicianship. =20

I agree. I do lots of gigs for things other than money. The farmers' =
market is not good money, but being part of that healthy movement is =
important to me, and I enjoy having a four-hour block of time in which I =
can do anything I want.

>=20
> For these reasons, I took on the booking responsibility for Onola.  =
The band agreed to a minimum income standard to which we would all make =
ourselves available as a top priority.  Anything beneath this standard =
required me to get buy in from band members before committing.  But, if =
the gig met or beat the standard, I was free to book and presume =
flexible availability of all band members.  With this agreement in =
place, we began saying no to gigs that were beneath the standard.  Where =
labor of love factors prevailed, we had a process by which to make =
exceptions..  and we certainly did so when it was good for the art, the =
band, or the community--but we I did not allow this to replace the =
standard valuation for our band. =20

I'm in a band now with a guy who is much more hard-nosed about money =
than I am. We have been good for each other's attitudes: we have said no =
to some gigs I might otherwise have done, and I have gotten him to say =
yes to a few gigs that had other than financial merit.



> With this approach,  our band compensation increased to >$100 per man =
/gig on average in less than 3 months.   In addition to this, our band =
leader began earning a band leaders cut above and beyond the base line =
comp for the band members.  And, we were able to shave ten percent off =
of every gig for the band fund which facilitated future bookings and =
promotions of a similar caliber.

Wise!!







David Gans - david@trufun.com or david@gdhour.com
Blog:  http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com






--Apple-Mail=_96DD84C8-9B3E-41F5-84A9-EAB6B3DCEFE8
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	charset=us-ascii

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
"><br><div><div>On Jan 31, 2013, at 1:16 PM, Daniel Thomas &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:danielthomas4@mac.com">danielthomas4@mac.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dwindows-1252"><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
"><div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"></blockquote></blockquote></div><div><div>playing a low =
comp gig for the love of it need not gut the financial motive in =
professional musicianship. =
&nbsp;</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><div><div><div><br></div></div></div><div>I agree. =
I do lots of gigs for things other than money. The farmers' market is =
not good money, but being part of that healthy movement is important to =
me, and I enjoy having a four-hour block of time in which I can do =
anything I want.</div><div><br></div></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
"><div><div><div><div><br></div><div>For these reasons, I took on the =
booking responsibility for Onola. &nbsp;The band agreed to a minimum =
income standard to which we would all make ourselves available as a top =
priority. &nbsp;Anything beneath this standard required me to get buy in =
from band members before committing. &nbsp;But, if the gig met or beat =
the standard, I was free to book and presume flexible availability of =
all band members. &nbsp;With this agreement in place, we began saying no =
to gigs that were beneath the standard. &nbsp;Where labor of love =
factors prevailed, we had a process by which to make exceptions.. =
&nbsp;and we certainly did so when it was good for the art, the band, or =
the community--but we I did not allow this to replace the standard =
valuation for our band. =
&nbsp;</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; =
"><div><div><div><div><br></div></div></div></div><div>I'm in a band now =
with a guy who is much more hard-nosed about money than I am. We have =
been good for each other's attitudes: we have said no to some gigs I =
might otherwise have done, and I have gotten him to say yes to a few =
gigs that had other than financial =
merit.</div><div><br></div></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote=
 type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><div><div><div>With =
this approach, &nbsp;our band compensation increased to &gt;$100 per man =
/gig on average in less than 3 months. &nbsp; In addition to this, our =
band leader began earning a band leaders cut above and beyond the base =
line comp for the band members. &nbsp;And, we were able to shave ten =
percent off of every gig for the band fund which facilitated future =
bookings and promotions of a similar =
caliber.</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
"><div><div><div><div><br></div></div></div></div><div>Wise!!</div><div><b=
r></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><=
br></div></div></div><br><div apple-content-edited=3D"true">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
border-spacing: 0px; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Times; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Times"><span=
 class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: medium; "><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; "><div>David Gans - =
<a href=3D"mailto:david@trufun.com">david@trufun.com</a> or <a =
href=3D"mailto:david@gdhour.com">david@gdhour.com</a></div><div>Blog: =
&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com">http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com</a>=
</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></span></font></span></font></div></sp=
an></div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br></body></html>=

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On 1/31/2013 6:03 AM, mark francombe wrote:
> Haha just that you the king of starting interesting threads!!!!

<grin>

/R.

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Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 14:30:43 -0800 (PST)
From: bill bigrig <billbigrig@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: bill bigrig <billbigrig@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: making a living
To: "Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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Back to the $0.02 beans, I bought lots of used and remaindered gear. 6 Vall=
ey 440s @ $125. A studio owning friend of mine was trying to start a jingle=
 business. I'd introduce him to musician friends interested in writing and =
recording jingles for him. Right off the bat he would say, "do you want to =
work for me?" Right now I have people doing jingles for $250,(a completee l=
ie). My friends would ask, "how much do YOU sell them for?" No takers obvio=
usly. Back to the Valley 440s. When I told him about them, he expressed int=
erest, (there were many more available). He said he'd call me back. He call=
ed back saying, I'll take all I can get, (he found out they are about $900 =
new). I told him they were no longer available. I just get weird when someo=
ne is so obvious about exploiting others. Sad to say, there are all too man=
y of them out there.=0ARig=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom:=
 Todd Elliott <toddbert@gmail.com>=0ATo: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.co=
m =0ASent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 1:19 PM=0ASubject: Re: making a livin=
g=0A=0A=0AI'd love to get paid in beer. Or at all. Having a gig where I'm n=
ot nearly thrown out would be nice, too. Well, that only happened the one t=
ime in the three gigs I played last year, but I digress. =0A=0AIn short, gi=
ve me beer.=0A=0AT=0A=0A=0AOn Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 1:13 PM, Charlie M <pilo=
tcp@gmail.com> wrote:=0A=0Aas someone who still gets paid in a percentage i=
n beer sales, deception for the club's overhead isn't that far off... =0A>=
=0A>=0A>=0A>On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 2:52 PM, David Gans <david@trufun.com> =
wrote:=0A>=0A>=0A>>=0A>>Sorry. =A0"Deduction," not "deception." =A0But hey.=
..=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>On Jan 31, 2013, at 12:39 PM, David Gans <david@=
trufun.com> wrote:=0A>>=0A>>> I occasionally get to open a show at Slim's o=
r the Great American Music Hall, usually for $250 or so. =A0But a "headline=
" or co-bill at the Starry Plough or Don Quixote's is a door deal, with a d=
eception for the club's overhead, etc., and they like to keep the ticket pr=
ices down to get more people in the door to buy beer - and of course, they =
don't offer the entertainers a share of the bar take.=0A>>=0A>>David Gans -=
 david@trufun.com or david@gdhour.com=0A>>Truth and Fun, Inc., 484 Lake Par=
k Ave. #102, Oakland CA 94610-2730=0A>>Blog: =A0http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.=
com/=0A>>Web site: http://www.dgans.com/=0A>>Photos: http://www.flickr.com/=
photos/dgans=0A>>Music: http://www.cdbaby.com/all/dgans=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=
=0A>>=0A>=0A=0A=0A-- =0Ahttp://toaster.bandcamp.com 
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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:ti=
mes new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div style=3D"RIGHT: =
auto"><SPAN style=3D"RIGHT: auto">Back to the $0.02 beans, I bought lots of=
 used and remaindered gear. 6 Valley 440s @ $125. A studio owning friend of=
 mine was trying to start a jingle business. I'd introduce him to musician =
friends interested in writing and recording jingles for him. Right off the =
bat he would say, "do you want to work for me?" Right now I have people doi=
ng jingles for $250,(a completee lie). My friends would ask, "how much do Y=
OU sell them for?" No takers obviously. Back to the Valley 440s. When I tol=
d him about them, he expressed interest, (there were many more available). =
He said he'd call me back. He called back saying, I'll take all I can get, =
(he found out they are about $900 new). I told him they were no longer avai=
lable. I just get weird when someone is so obvious about exploiting
 others. Sad to say, there are all too many of them out there.</SPAN></div>
<div style=3D"RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style=3D"RIGHT: auto">Rig<VAR id=3Dyui-ie-=
cursor></VAR></SPAN></div>
<div><BR></div>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SI=
ZE: 12pt">
<DIV style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SI=
ZE: 12pt">
<DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>
<DIV style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; P=
ADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PAD=
DING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; B=
ORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px" class=3Dhr contentEditable=
=3Dfalse readonly=3D"true"></DIV><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:=
</SPAN></B> Todd Elliott &lt;toddbert@gmail.com&gt;<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FO=
NT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com <BR><B>=
<SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, January 31, 20=
13 1:19 PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: =
making a living<BR></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV id=3Dyiv2125930882>I'd love to get paid in beer. Or at all. Having a g=
ig where I'm not nearly thrown out would be nice, too. Well, that only happ=
ened the one time in the three gigs I played last year, but I digress.
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>In short, give me beer.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>T<BR><BR>
<DIV class=3Dyiv2125930882gmail_quote>On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 1:13 PM, Char=
lie M <SPAN dir=3Dltr>&lt;<A href=3D"mailto:pilotcp@gmail.com" rel=3Dnofoll=
ow target=3D_blank ymailto=3D"mailto:pilotcp@gmail.com">pilotcp@gmail.com</=
A>&gt;</SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3Dyiv2125930882gmail_quote>as someone who still =
gets paid in a percentage in beer sales, deception for the club's overhead =
isn't that far off...
<DIV class=3Dyiv2125930882HOEnZb>
<DIV class=3Dyiv2125930882h5><BR><BR>
<DIV class=3Dyiv2125930882gmail_quote>On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 2:52 PM, Davi=
d Gans <SPAN dir=3Dltr>&lt;<A href=3D"mailto:david@trufun.com" rel=3Dnofoll=
ow target=3D_blank ymailto=3D"mailto:david@trufun.com">david@trufun.com</A>=
&gt;</SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3Dyiv2125930882gmail_quote><BR><BR>Sorry. &nbsp;=
"Deduction," not "deception." &nbsp;But hey...<BR>
<DIV><BR><BR><BR>On Jan 31, 2013, at 12:39 PM, David Gans &lt;<A href=3D"ma=
ilto:david@trufun.com" rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank ymailto=3D"mailto:dav=
id@trufun.com">david@trufun.com</A>&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I occasionally g=
et to open a show at Slim's or the Great American Music Hall, usually for $=
250 or so. &nbsp;But a "headline" or co-bill at the Starry Plough or Don Qu=
ixote's is a door deal, with a deception for the club's overhead, etc., and=
 they like to keep the ticket prices down to get more people in the door to=
 buy beer - and of course, they don't offer the entertainers a share of the=
 bar take.<BR><BR></DIV>David Gans - <A href=3D"mailto:david@trufun.com" re=
l=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank ymailto=3D"mailto:david@trufun.com">david@truf=
un.com</A> or <A href=3D"mailto:david@gdhour.com" rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_=
blank ymailto=3D"mailto:david@gdhour.com">david@gdhour.com</A><BR>Truth and=
 Fun, Inc., 484 Lake Park Ave. #102, Oakland CA 94610-2730<BR>Blog:
 &nbsp;http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com/<BR>Web site: http://www.dgans.com/<B=
R>Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dgans<BR>Music: http://www.cdbaby.co=
m/all/dgans<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQU=
OTE></DIV><BR><BR clear=3Dall>
<DIV><BR></DIV>-- <BR>http://toaster.bandcamp.com </DIV></DIV><BR><BR></DIV=
></DIV></div></body></html>
---409489618-339152352-1359671443=:44682--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jan 31 23:09:37 2013
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Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 15:09:41 -0800
From: Rick Walker <looppool@cruzio.com>
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To: Daniel Thomas <danielthomas4@mac.com>,
        "LOOPERS DELIGHT (posting)" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Zoe Keating in NY Times article.@borisfx.com
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On 1/31/2013 1:16 PM, Daniel Thomas wrote:
>>> where I play, weekly,  couldn't possibly afford to pay 
>>> more.............for them,  it's a labor of love to have Jazz at 
>>> their establishment and they are also struggling
>>> financially.
>
> I think perhaps I offended you, Rick.  It was not at all my 
> intention--  if I did , I apologize.  Surely you know, my brother, 
> bandmate and friend, that you have my total respect.
>
>
*No, not in the slightest,  Daniel.      I just have my own perspective 
on playing out in the world that the one you
have (both are equally valid).

*

> No disrespect meant Rick, but you seriously can't get gigs that 
> make you more than $50 in Santa Cruz?
>
> *None taken.    And it has been tough,  but I do know that I'm trying 
> to get jazz gigs and I'm new to that *
*scene so I have to establish myself a little, which I've been doing.


I was the number one sub drummer for 150 bands from Sacramento to Big 
Sur for many, many years, but
I left that world when i was able, for the first time to live entirely 
off of my idiosyncratic solo artistry for the first
several years of last decade.      Getting back into that world again,  
has proven to be very difficult because the number
of high paying gigs, corporate gigs, wedding and club gigs have dwindled 
to a trickle.     I talk to local professional
musicians who are out in the trenches making all of their living only 
playing live (I don't see how it's possible, frankly)
but it's a new world.    It's even a lot worse from a mere 2 or 3 years ago.

I don't at all discount your experience.   I have tremendous respect for 
you as an artist, a manager, a mover of people and a dear friend.
I just don't have the exact same kind of experience doing what I"m doing.

I'm ambitious, though,  and am looking into all kinds of things to get 
income back up again,  some of which are very promising.
Gigging in the Jazz scene probably wont' be one of them, though 
(although I also am working towards upping that work too).

much respect, Daniel.

Rick
*

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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/31/2013 1:16 PM, Daniel Thomas
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:%3C3BFB540B-BD7A-405C-9931-708231F483CE@mac.com%3E"
      type="cite">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
        charset=ISO-8859-1">
      <div>
        <div>
          <blockquote type="cite">
            <blockquote type="cite">where I play,&nbsp;weekly, &nbsp;couldn't
              possibly afford to pay more.............for them, &nbsp;it's
              a&nbsp;labor&nbsp;of love to have Jazz at their establishment and
              they are also struggling<br>
              financially.<br>
            </blockquote>
          </blockquote>
          <br>
        </div>
        <div>I think perhaps I offended you, Rick. &nbsp;It was not at all my
          intention-- &nbsp;if I did , I apologize. &nbsp;Surely you know, my
          brother, bandmate and friend, that you have my total respect.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <br>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <b>No, not in the slightest,&nbsp; Daniel.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I just have my own
      perspective on playing out in the world that the one you <br>
      have (both are equally valid).<br>
      <br>
    </b><br>
    <br>
    <blockquote type="cite">No disrespect meant Rick, but you seriously
      can't get gigs that make&nbsp;you more than $50 in Santa Cruz?&nbsp; <br>
      <br>
      <b>None taken.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; And it has been tough,&nbsp; but I do know that I'm
        trying to get jazz gigs and I'm new to that </b><br>
    </blockquote>
    <b>scene so I have to establish myself a little, which I've been
      doing.<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      I was the number one sub drummer for 150 bands from Sacramento to
      Big Sur for many, many years, but <br>
      I left that world when i was able, for the first time to live
      entirely off of my idiosyncratic solo artistry for the first <br>
      several years of last decade.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Getting back into that world
      again,&nbsp; has proven to be very difficult because the number <br>
      of high paying gigs, corporate gigs, wedding and club gigs have
      dwindled to a trickle.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I talk to local professional <br>
      musicians who are out in the trenches making all of their living
      only playing live (I don't see how it's possible, frankly) <br>
      but it's a new world.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; It's even a lot worse from a mere 2 or 3
      years ago.<br>
      <br>
      I don't at all discount your experience.&nbsp;&nbsp; I have tremendous
      respect for you as an artist, a manager, a mover of people and a
      dear friend.<br>
      I just don't have the exact same kind of experience doing what I"m
      doing.<br>
      <br>
      I'm ambitious, though,&nbsp; and am looking into all kinds of things to
      get income back up again,&nbsp; some of which are very promising.<br>
      Gigging in the Jazz scene probably wont' be one of them, though
      (although I also am working towards upping that work too).<br>
      <br>
      much respect, Daniel.<br>
      <br>
      Rick<br>
    </b>
  </body>
</html>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jan 31 23:27:11 2013
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Subject: Re: Re: Zoe Keating in NY Times article.@borisfx.com
From: Kevin Cheli-Colando <billowhead@gmail.com>
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> No disrespect meant Rick, but you seriously can't get gigs that make you
> more than $50 in Santa Cruz?

Actually, I wrote that, not Daniel (just for the record).

While I admit to having about zero experience with this, I'm friends
with a fair number of folks who seem to have found away to get some
money from making music (and I don't know their real financial
situation at all, days jobs or what not).  I was just surprised that
the amount for you was so low.

FWIW (and probably very very little) I always kind of thought the way
to do this sort of thing was to establish a scene that is just a cool
place to be and that by creating a good time and atmosphere you would
eventually begin to pull in some kind of income (or at least enough to
make it worthwhile-assuming you're having a good time that shouldn't
be too hard).  Find a place that's loose enough to let you create
something and if it works, people will tell more people and the scene
will grow.

While I very much doubt I will ever make money for playing music, I'm
in a similar situation with visual projection.  I think I have a
pretty great and psychedelic sensibility that really raises the level
of the gigs I've been at and yet getting paid to do that has been
really a tough sell.  Why would people want to pay for such an 'extra'
to the music when its not really a necessity?

But I should stop before I embarrass myself talking like Micky Rooney
to Judy Garland about putting on a show.

Sorry to hear its as hard as it is in the trenches.

Kevin
-- 
Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and to have a
form. That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all trouble.

- Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jan 31 23:42:22 2013
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Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 15:42:20 -0800 (PST)
From: bill bigrig <billbigrig@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: bill bigrig <billbigrig@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: new video/song
To: "Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Cc: Rick Walker <looppool@cruzio.com>
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That was looping!!?? ZOWIE!!! Do tell, (how).
Rig


________________________________
 From: RP Collier <skeptikalist@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com 
Cc: Rick Walker <looppool@cruzio.com> 
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 8:14 AM
Subject: Re: new video/song
 



On Jan 26, 2013, at 11:12 PM, Rick Walker wrote:

Beautiful and very evocative.
>I love the mixture of the music and the video.


Thank you sir!
And thanks for taking the time to listen.

I love your Challenge video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iApedAzjwiU

regards

BobC
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<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>That was looping!!?? ZOWIE!!! Do tell, (how).</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; "><span>Rig</span></div><div><br></div>  <div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; "> <div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; "> <div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> <hr size="1">  <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> RP Collier &lt;skeptikalist@gmail.com&gt;<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com <br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> Rick Walker &lt;looppool@cruzio.com&gt; <br> <b><span style="font-weight:
 bold;">Sent:</span></b> Sunday, January 27, 2013 8:14 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: new video/song<br> </font> </div> <br>
<div id="yiv2088888237"><div><br><div><div>On Jan 26, 2013, at 11:12 PM, Rick Walker wrote:</div><br class="yiv2088888237Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="yiv2088888237Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; font-size: medium; font-family: Helvetica; ">Beautiful and very evocative.<br>I love the mixture of the music and the video.</span></blockquote><br></div><br><div>Thank you sir!</div><div>And thanks for taking the time to listen.</div><div><br></div><div>I love your Challenge video</div><div>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iApedAzjwiU</div><div><br></div><div>regards</div><div><br></div><div>BobC</div></div></div><br><br> </div> </div>  </div></body></html>
--461871616-1667271042-1359675740=:45259--

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Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 15:46:35 -0800 (PST)
From: bill bigrig <billbigrig@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: bill bigrig <billbigrig@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: new video/song
To: "Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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---409489618-444883647-1359675995=:87728
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THAt TOO IS LOOPING!!!??? I may have to rethink this 3 Ibanez delays with t=
he Roland tape echo. What is the favorite looper??? OR, what is the favorit=
e color? I imagine there are as many answers as people.=0ARig=0A=0A=0A_____=
___________________________=0A From: mark francombe <mark@markfrancombe.com=
>=0ATo: loopers-delight <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com> =0ASent: Sund=
ay, January 27, 2013 1:14 AM=0ASubject: Re: new video/song=0A =0A=0AAs a hu=
ge fan of archive and diary movies, I=A0applaud=A0this. I also liked the cu=
t up audio glitches.. can we have a little nerd info on the musical set-up =
please?=0A=0AMArk=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 2:37 AM, RP Collier <s=
keptikalist@gmail.com> wrote:=0A=0A=0A>Here is a video for a song from a ne=
w album I just released.=0A>The song is ambient glitch electronica.=0A>Musi=
c was made using an iPad and Ableton Live.=0A>The video is of Coney Island =
in August 1904.=0A>=0A>=0A>Youtube=0A>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DOxsc=
0x7wV6Y=0A>=0A>or=0A>=0A>Vimeo=0A>https://vimeo.com/58271721=0A>=0A>=0A>I w=
ill get the album up on Bandcamp eventually and announce when that is accom=
plished.=0A>=0A>=0A>regards=0A>=0A>BobC=0A>=0A>=0A=0A=0A-- =0AMark Francomb=
e=0Awww.markfrancombe.com=0Awww.ordoabkhao.com=0Ahttp://vimeo.com/user82509=
4=0Ahttp://www.looop.no/=0Atwitter @markfrancombe=0Ahttp://www.flickr.com/p=
hotos/24478662@N00/
---409489618-444883647-1359675995=:87728
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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:ti=
mes new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>THAt TOO I=
S LOOPING!!!??? I may have to rethink this 3 Ibanez delays with the Roland =
tape echo. What is the favorite looper??? OR, what is the favorite color? I=
 imagine there are as many answers as people.</span></div><div style=3D"col=
or: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new yor=
k', times, serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; "><spa=
n>Rig</span></div><div><br></div>  <div style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; "> <div style=3D"font-size=
: 12pt; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; "> <div d=
ir=3D"ltr"> <font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"> <hr size=3D"1">  <b><span styl=
e=3D"font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> mark francombe &lt;mark@markfranco=
mbe.com&gt;<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> looper=
s-delight
 &lt;Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com&gt; <br> <b><span style=3D"font-we=
ight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Sunday, January 27, 2013 1:14 AM<br> <b><span=
 style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: new video/song<br> </=
font> </div> <br>=0A<div id=3D"yiv1156669557"><div dir=3D"ltr">As a huge fa=
n of archive and diary movies, I&nbsp;applaud&nbsp;this. I also liked the c=
ut up audio glitches.. can we have a little nerd info on the musical set-up=
 please?<div><br></div><div style=3D"">MArk</div></div><div class=3D"yiv115=
6669557gmail_extra">=0A=0A<br><br><div class=3D"yiv1156669557gmail_quote">O=
n Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 2:37 AM, RP Collier <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a rel=3D"=
nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:skeptikalist@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" href=
=3D"mailto:skeptikalist@gmail.com">skeptikalist@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wr=
ote:<br><blockquote class=3D"yiv1156669557gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 =
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">=0A=0A<br>=0AHere is a=
 video for a song from a new album I just released.<br>=0AThe song is ambie=
nt glitch electronica.<br>=0AMusic was made using an iPad and Ableton Live.=
<br>=0AThe video is of Coney Island in August 1904.<br>=0A<br>=0A<br>=0AYou=
tube<br>=0Ahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DOxsc0x7wV6Y<br>=0A<br>=0Aor<br>=
=0A<br>=0AVimeo<br>=0A<a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"https:/=
/vimeo.com/58271721">https://vimeo.com/58271721</a><br>=0A<br>=0A<br>=0AI w=
ill get the album up on Bandcamp eventually and announce when that is accom=
plished.<br>=0A<br>=0A<br>=0Aregards<br>=0A<br>=0ABobC<br>=0A<br>=0A</block=
quote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><i style=3D"color: =
rgb(255, 255, 255); background-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: verdana, s=
ans-serif; "><font style=3D"font-family: 'trebuchet ms', sans-serif; " size=
=3D"4"><u>Mark Francombe</u></font></i><br>=0A=0A<font size=3D"1"><a rel=3D=
"nofollow" style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51);" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://w=
ww.markfrancombe.com/">www.markfrancombe.com</a><br style=3D"color:rgb(51,0=
,51);"><a rel=3D"nofollow" style=3D"color:rgb(51,0,51);" target=3D"_blank" =
href=3D"http://www.ordoabkhao.com/">www.ordoabkhao.com</a><br style=3D"colo=
r:rgb(51,0,51);">=0A=0Ahttp://vimeo.com/user825094<br style=3D"color:rgb(51=
,0,51);">http://www.looop.no/<br>=0A=0Atwitter @markfrancombe<br>http://www=
.flickr.com/photos/24478662@N00/<br></font>=0A</div>=0A</div><br><br> </div=
> </div>  </div></body></html>
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