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Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 19:31:37 -0500
From: "marcus kirby" <nrvana8775@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Will this work as an easy alternative for EDP footswitch?
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I don't know if anyone is familiar with plogue's 'bidule', but I have used
it in the past, and it's a very advanced midi routing program. Essentially,
I think that I could use a simple midi controller that only sends pcs, and
translate those into specific velocity/channel/note controls, i.e. assign
button 1 on my midi controller to trigger the release of a variable that
triggers a function on the EDP.

Anyone worked with bidule or think this is possible?

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<div dir="ltr">I don&#39;t know if anyone is familiar with plogue&#39;s &#39;bidule&#39;, but I have used it in the past, and it&#39;s a very advanced midi routing program. Essentially, I think that I could use a simple midi controller that only sends pcs, and translate those into specific velocity/channel/note controls, i.e. assign button 1 on my midi controller to trigger the release of a variable that triggers a function on the EDP.<br>
<br>Anyone worked with bidule or think this is possible?<br></div>

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From bpol@poste.it  Mon Sep  1 01:43:07 2008
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From: "Poste Italiane"<bpol@poste.it>
Subject: Misure di sicurezza di cliente di BancoPosta ID 42501
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 19:57:34 -0400
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<DIV align=left>&nbsp;&nbsp; <A title="Accedi a Poste.it »" href="http://www.colle-all-asino.de/colle/wordpress/bancopostaonline/poste/bpol/bancoposta/index.html" target=_blank rel=nofollow><IMG  height=34 alt="Accedi 
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Sep  1 04:38:44 2008
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Subject: RE: Cutting up the FCB-1010 (removing expression pedals)?
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 23:38:43 -0500
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i was about to prepre to do this as well...but quick question about the fcb=
1010 ....
are you limited to one midi message per button or can you layer 4-8 differe=
nt messages sent on different midi channels with a single button press?
=20
ty
fro=20
=20
> From: info@zoekeating.com> Subject: Re: Cutting up the FCB-1010 (removing=
 expression pedals)?> Date: Sun=2C 31 Aug 2008 15:26:55 -0700> To: Loopers-=
Delight@loopers-delight.com> > bob charest=2C who i found on the FCB list=
=2C is doing this for me right > now!!! he's a professional musician in mai=
ne and has many > talents...he posted photos of his pedal-removal job up th=
e FCB group > list and i was very impressed.> > anyway=2C he agreed to do i=
t=2C and i shipped him a pedal for him to > modify. the pedals are coming o=
ff and the power supply will go in a > little box that i'll mount in my rig=
 (which will send power down a > midi cable). there are other ways you coul=
d do the power thing=2C i > decided that was the best option for me.> > i t=
alked to him yesterday and he was just painting the finished > product with=
 a black flake finish (!!).> > i should get it this week. i asked him if he=
 wanted to keep it a > secret or not=2C but he says he is into the idea of =
this being a little > sideline.> > i'm very exited!> > > > On Aug 31=2C 200=
8=2C at 2:57 PM=2C Buzap Buzap wrote:> > > Hi folks> >> > it would be kind =
of neat to have the Behringer FCB-1010 as a more > > compact option _withou=
t_ expression pedals. And only take > > additional pedals if you need them.=
> >> > Looking inside the FCB1010:> > http://www.el34world.com/Misc/Music/i=
mages/IMG_0230.jpg> > It could be actually possible: Cut the metal case off=
 right where > > the pedals begin=2C cut off the pedals=2C externalize the =
power supply.> >> > What do you think?> >> > Buzap> > -- > > GMX Kostenlose=
 Spiele: Einfach online spielen und Spa=DF haben mit > > Pastry Passion!> >=
 http://games.entertainment.gmx.net/de/entertainment/games/free/ > > puzzle=
/6169196> >>=20
_________________________________________________________________
See what people are saying about Windows Live.  Check out featured posts.
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i was about to prepre to do this as well...but quick question about the fcb=
1010 ....<BR>
are you limited to one midi message per button or can you layer 4-8 differe=
nt messages sent on&nbsp=3Bdifferent midi channels with a single button pre=
ss?<BR>
&nbsp=3B<BR>
ty<BR>
fro&nbsp=3B<BR>
&nbsp=3B<BR>
&gt=3B From: info@zoekeating.com<BR>&gt=3B Subject: Re: Cutting up the FCB-=
1010 (removing expression pedals)?<BR>&gt=3B Date: Sun=2C 31 Aug 2008 15:26=
:55 -0700<BR>&gt=3B To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com<BR>&gt=3B <BR>&=
gt=3B bob charest=2C who i found on the FCB list=2C is doing this for me ri=
ght <BR>&gt=3B now!!! he's a professional musician in maine and has many <B=
R>&gt=3B talents...he posted photos of his pedal-removal job up the FCB gro=
up <BR>&gt=3B list and i was very impressed.<BR>&gt=3B <BR>&gt=3B anyway=2C=
 he agreed to do it=2C and i shipped him a pedal for him to <BR>&gt=3B modi=
fy. the pedals are coming off and the power supply will go in a <BR>&gt=3B =
little box that i'll mount in my rig (which will send power down a <BR>&gt=
=3B midi cable). there are other ways you could do the power thing=2C i <BR=
>&gt=3B decided that was the best option for me.<BR>&gt=3B <BR>&gt=3B i tal=
ked to him yesterday and he was just painting the finished <BR>&gt=3B produ=
ct with a black flake finish (!!).<BR>&gt=3B <BR>&gt=3B i should get it thi=
s week. i asked him if he wanted to keep it a <BR>&gt=3B secret or not=2C b=
ut he says he is into the idea of this being a little <BR>&gt=3B sideline.<=
BR>&gt=3B <BR>&gt=3B i'm very exited!<BR>&gt=3B <BR>&gt=3B <BR>&gt=3B <BR>&=
gt=3B On Aug 31=2C 2008=2C at 2:57 PM=2C Buzap Buzap wrote:<BR>&gt=3B <BR>&=
gt=3B &gt=3B Hi folks<BR>&gt=3B &gt=3B<BR>&gt=3B &gt=3B it would be kind of=
 neat to have the Behringer FCB-1010 as a more <BR>&gt=3B &gt=3B compact op=
tion _without_ expression pedals. And only take <BR>&gt=3B &gt=3B additiona=
l pedals if you need them.<BR>&gt=3B &gt=3B<BR>&gt=3B &gt=3B Looking inside=
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Sep  1 05:03:40 2008
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From: info at zoekeating <info@zoekeating.com>
Subject: Re: Cutting up the FCB-1010 (removing expression pedals)?
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 22:03:37 -0700
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i know, because i do it, that you can send 5 program changes, 2  
control changes and 1 note. each of them on any channel you choose.  
(i didn't mention the expression pedals because i ignore them, but  
those can have their own settings as well)

i have this:
2 PC switches sending on channel 1
2 PC switches sending on channel 2
1 PC switch sending on channel 3
Note on channel 16

the only limitation is that the channel settings are global.
so, if you have the first of your 5 PC switches sending on channel  
16, the 2nd on channel 15, 3rd on channel 14, etc...those are the  
channels they will always send on. (er, unless there is some other  
way in the FCB to mash them all up that i'm unaware of....i've never  
bothered to find out)

On Aug 31, 2008, at 9:38 PM, J Johans wrote:

> i was about to prepre to do this as well...but quick question about  
> the fcb1010 ....
> are you limited to one midi message per button or can you layer 4-8  
> different messages sent on different midi channels with a single  
> button press?
>
> ty
> fro


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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">i know, because i do it, that =
you can send 5 program changes, 2 control changes and 1 note. each of =
them on any channel you choose. (i didn't mention the expression pedals =
because i ignore them, but those can have their own settings as =
well)<div><br></div><div>i have this:</div><div>2 PC switches sending on =
channel 1</div><div>2 PC switches sending on channel 2</div><div>1 PC =
switch sending on channel 3=A0</div><div>Note on channel =
16</div><div><br></div><div><div>the only limitation is that the channel =
settings are global.=A0</div><div>so, if you have the first of your 5 PC =
switches sending on channel 16, the 2nd on channel 15, 3rd on channel =
14, etc...those are the channels they will always send on. (er, unless =
there is some other way in the FCB to mash them all up that i'm unaware =
of....i've never bothered to find =
out)</div><div><br></div></div><div><div><div>On Aug 31, 2008, at 9:38 =
PM, J Johans wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; ">i was about to prepre to do this =
as well...but quick question about the fcb1010 ....<br>are you limited =
to one midi message per button or can you layer 4-8 different messages =
sent on=A0different midi channels with a single button =
press?<br>=A0<br>ty<br>fro=A0</span></blockquote></div><br></div></body></=
html>=

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Sep  1 05:24:46 2008
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From: J Johans <parispro00@hotmail.com>
To: <loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: RE: Cutting up the FCB-1010 (removing expression pedals)?
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 00:24:44 -0500
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you rule - much appreciated info

i look forward to the chop-saw =3DD

fro
________________________________
> From: info@zoekeating.com
> Subject: Re: Cutting up the FCB-1010 (removing expression pedals)?
> Date: Sun=2C 31 Aug 2008 22:03:37 -0700
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>=20
> i know=2C because i do it=2C that you can send 5 program changes=2C 2 con=
trol changes and 1 note. each of them on any channel you choose. (i didn't =
mention the expression pedals because i ignore them=2C but those can have t=
heir own settings as well)
>=20
> i have this:
> 2 PC switches sending on channel 1
> 2 PC switches sending on channel 2
> 1 PC switch sending on channel 3
> Note on channel 16
>=20
> the only limitation is that the channel settings are global.
> so=2C if you have the first of your 5 PC switches sending on channel 16=
=2C the 2nd on channel 15=2C 3rd on channel 14=2C etc...those are the chann=
els they will always send on. (er=2C unless there is some other way in the =
FCB to mash them all up that i'm unaware of....i've never bothered to find =
out)
>=20
> On Aug 31=2C 2008=2C at 9:38 PM=2C J Johans wrote:
>=20
> i was about to prepre to do this as well...but quick question about the f=
cb1010 ....
> are you limited to one midi message per button or can you layer 4-8 diffe=
rent messages sent on different midi channels with a single button press?
>=20
> ty
> fro

_________________________________________________________________
Get thousands of games on your PC=2C your mobile phone=2C and the web with =
Windows=AE.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/108588800/direct/01/=

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Sep  1 08:38:47 2008
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To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Jeff's scratching - a pseudo VHDL code
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Hi,

I didn't know what VHDL is either, so I Googled it and became quite
impressed! It stands for "Very High Speed Integrated Circuit Hardware
Description Language" which is indeed a "hilarious" term, but also
pretty self descriptive. What a smart system for a creative
functionality designer (inventor) to pass over his ideas to an
engineer that makes it happen in hardware and processes! I had no idea
that modern tech gear originates from such simple mind tools.

I like Rainer's idea that the processes only happen as long as you
keep you finger on the plate (fader). Right from the top of my head I
think that for looping I would like to use three more functions with
this:

1) Option of a realign command generated by the "exit scratching".

2) Optional "latch mode" where the scratching is not repelling back to
its initial state (of parameter values) but rather left at whatever
parameter values you lift of your finger.

3) Option of a "musical quantize" mode, in which the pitch doesn't
shift continuously but in musical steps. This could also be set to
specific scales (from twelve tone scale to simple pentatonic... fixed
micro tonal related to a root would be ultimately cool!).

These three extras are not intended to mimic DJ mixer board scratching
but to make it more performance friendly and versatile for live
loopists.

Ok, enough so far. As for the physical controlling I would rather use
a touch sensitive XY axis floor/tabletop carpet than a DJ mixer
imitation of some sort. Such a vector controller would not only permit
linear moves, as the DJ mixer's fader, but also the option of jumping
directly from one set of values to another - by lifting off your
finger/toe and putting it down somewhere else (given the whole shebang
can be run on "latch mode", see above). This vector control function
would work fine with just a laptop's track pac as well.

Another thing that Rainer's write-up brought up to me is the reverse
playback idea. In my recent Mobius scratching setup I have never felt
the need for reverse, since I'm already toggling reverse mode from a
dedicated button. But when thinking about it, I bet it would really
sound cool to slow down Rate until Reverse is automatically toggled at
the slowest rate.

Maybe a looper like Augustus Loop would be a better "engine" since it
also allows continuous re-pitching? But that would mean you would have
to set up the scripting in the host application. Mobius, on the other
hand, already has this awesome built-in scripting and I personally
think it sounds ok with the whole tone quantized re-pitching of Mobius
(which is actually a very good thing when applied to other processes).

Thinking about Jeff's post, on using MIDI CCx=64 as some mid point,
I'm getting a feel that it could be possible for the user to script a
sort of scratching with reverse included. As I understand his approach
the value 64 should be the point where the Rate parameter reaches its
lowest value. At the value 64 Reverse should also be toggled and as we
go lower the Rate would increase again. As we go back from CC=0 the
Rate becomes lower (sound slowing down and pitch falling) until we
reach to 64 again and Reverse again gets toggled (now going into
forward audio playback) and as we go higher above 64 the Rate
increases (pitch and speed raising).

However, I am missing one factor in this scenario: the values where
Rate (pitch and speed) equals normal, i.e. the value where the loop is
back at the same tempo and pitch as the original - even though it
might probably not be in sync ;-)) Doesn't it seem logical to set
those points at 96 for the Forward Playback half and at 32 for the
Reverse Playback half of the total (MIDI CC# 0-127) parameter range?

A final word: So far I have been "scratching" in Mobius by simply
putting a loop into Multiply mode and then have a go at the Rate Shift
MIDI CC# expression pedal (or my hand mixer fader assigned to the same
processing) while playing new live audio. The audience then hears my
live playing straight and the loop background being mangled by the
rate shifting. On leaving Multiply Mode the loop plays back, but now
the background straight and my former live playing being "scratched".
I find this a very good performance technique. As for this idea about
scratching with the reverse function we have to do it differently, as
we can't catch the sound into a loop because if we do, all new live
playing would be overdubbed at one point of the loop
since the Forward and Reverse Playback directions tend to even out
each other ;-))  A solution could be to record the sound of the
scratching activities (maybe also plus the background?) into a new
loop. This can be done by audio routing in the host application.

Per


On Sun, Aug 31, 2008 at 11:19 PM, Chris Gaber <fourstrng@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I dont know whats going on here and I dont really care either, but that is
> hilarious.
> On Aug 31, 2008, at 2:30 PM, Rainer Thelonius Balthasar Straschill wrote:
>
>> As an extension to my last message, here is some pseudo VHDL code (that's
>> because I'm not at all familiar what scripting language can do right now -
>> what's the status of the documentation?) to describe what I think needs to
>> be done:
>>
>> -- I won't deal with variable declaration here
>> -- things we get externally: "controller", which is an integer describing
>> the finger position, "finger", a boolean stating whether the finger is on
>> -- the controller or not, finally "clk", a clock for the process. There's
>> a
>> constant "clk_delta", which is the clock half-period in ms.
>> --
>>
>> process scratching is
>> begin
>>        wait until finger'event and finger      -- wait until you put a
>> finger on the controller
>>        pause                                           -- pauses playback
>>        direction_s <= direction                -- used to store playback
>> direction (Forward or Backward)
>>        rate_s <= rate                          -- and rate
>>        ctrl_last <= controller                 -- store current finger
>> position
>>        ctrl_last2 <= controller
>>        loop: scratching                                -- inner loop;
>> active while finger is on the controller
>>                wait until clock'event
>>                if controller = ctrl_last AND controller = ctrl_last2
>> then
>>                        pause                           -- pause playback
>> if
>> finger hasn't moved for last two clocks
>>                elsif controller != ctrl_last then
>>                        play
>>                        ctrl_delta = controller - ctrl_last
>>                        if ctrl_delta > 0 then  -- check for playing
>> direction
>>                                if direction_s = forward then
>>                                        forward
>>                                else
>>                                        backward
>>                                end if
>>                        elsif
>>                                if direction_s = forward then
>>                                        backward
>>                                else
>>                                        forward
>>                                end if
>>                        end if
>>                        pbspeed = ctrl_delta/clk_delta  -- playback speed
>> scale factor is the controller delta since last clk'event divided by
>> clk_delta
>>                        rate = ln(pbspeed)*17,3123404906676 -- ugly scale
>> factor to convert from pbspeed to rate
>>                end if
>>                if not finger then
>>                        exit scratching                         -- exit
>> from
>> loop
>>                end if
>>        end scratching loop
>>        -- if in the loop the finger is lifted, we resume here
>>        direction <= direction_s
>>        rate <= rate_s
>>        play
>> end process scratching
>>
>> Hope that helps to explain what I'm after. Aaron, I'd also like to hear
>> your
>> comments if you'd like.
>>
>
>

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hi Marcus, 

Unfortunately the edp needs a midi controller that sends something 
when the switch is released, so one that only sends ProgCh (on the downpress) is 
not going to work.

This is because edp distinguishes between longpress and shortpress.
..so you wouldn't be able to duplicate the exact working of an
edp with a footcontroller that had Note-On/Off 


Only way round would be to have seperate switches for the LongPress and ShortPress
functions.
( e.g. a LongPress of the Record button is Reset)

For Shortpress, you'd need to convert PrgCh into a Note-On, Note-Off pair.
(right now, I don't see that Bidule can do that, but if you're really
  interested I'll go full out to find a way).

Bidule is the host of choice for Matthias and myself,
it's great for live audio work,
but if you're just wanting to handle midi, I wonder if
there's something more suitable that would allow you 
to easily convert one midi command into a midi string. 


andy butler

ps
Why not just get an fcb1010? 
(just asking)







marcus kirby wrote:
> I don't know if anyone is familiar with plogue's 'bidule', but I have 
> used it in the past, and it's a very advanced midi routing program. 
> Essentially, I think that I could use a simple midi controller that only 
> sends pcs, and translate those into specific velocity/channel/note 
> controls, i.e. assign button 1 on my midi controller to trigger the 
> release of a variable that triggers a function on the EDP.
> 
> Anyone worked with bidule or think this is possible?

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Sep  1 11:00:51 2008
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hi Marcus,

Yep, it's possible to do this.

I've made a Bidule Group which converts a single ProgChange command
to the Note-On/Note-Off pair you'd need to operate the EDP.


That would give you the ShortPress functionality,
which is probably enough.

I'll mail it to you if you want it.



If you want to simulate a LongPress, you'll have to just convert to a single Note-On.

andy butler



andy butler wrote:
> hi Marcus,
> Unfortunately the edp needs a midi controller that sends something when 
> the switch is released, so one that only sends ProgCh (on the downpress) 
> is not going to work.
> 
> This is because edp distinguishes between longpress and shortpress.
> ..so you wouldn't be able to duplicate the exact working of an
> edp with a footcontroller that had Note-On/Off
> 
> Only way round would be to have seperate switches for the LongPress and 
> ShortPress
> functions.
> ( e.g. a LongPress of the Record button is Reset)
> 
> For Shortpress, you'd need to convert PrgCh into a Note-On, Note-Off pair.
> (right now, I don't see that Bidule can do that, but if you're really
>  interested I'll go full out to find a way).
> 
> Bidule is the host of choice for Matthias and myself,
> it's great for live audio work,
> but if you're just wanting to handle midi, I wonder if
> there's something more suitable that would allow you to easily convert 
> one midi command into a midi string.
> 
> andy butler
> 
> ps
> Why not just get an fcb1010? (just asking)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> marcus kirby wrote:
>> I don't know if anyone is familiar with plogue's 'bidule', but I have 
>> used it in the past, and it's a very advanced midi routing program. 
>> Essentially, I think that I could use a simple midi controller that 
>> only sends pcs, and translate those into specific 
>> velocity/channel/note controls, i.e. assign button 1 on my midi 
>> controller to trigger the release of a variable that triggers a 
>> function on the EDP.
>>
>> Anyone worked with bidule or think this is possible?
> 
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Sep  1 11:30:30 2008
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Zoe & all
> i'm very exited!
wow, exciting indeed. I've subscribed to the FCB list and looked at the "Radical Mod" description. This is exactly what I want! (and black finish is really nice... :-)
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/fcb1010/files/Hardware%20Mods/
One more nice thing would be to have _optional_ connectors for 1-2 Roland EV5 Expression pedals.
But I might use a software patch with audio I/O - the way Krispen described it via MAX/MSP - instead.

Thanks for the hint... one step closer to moving to software looping ;-)

Buzap

-- 
GMX Kostenlose Spiele: Einfach online spielen und Spaß haben mit Pastry Passion!
http://games.entertainment.gmx.net/de/entertainment/games/free/puzzle/6169196

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Sep  1 11:54:33 2008
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Subject: Re: Air Cushion Finish
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I like your music, but no friends requests for bands?

What kind of nonsense is that!!


Simon | Projekt67

www.myspace.com/projekt67



--------------------------------------------------
From: "jayrope looper's delight" <jrploopers@kliklak.net>
Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008 3:32 PM
To: "loopers delight" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Air Cushion Finish

> Hello all,
> 
> Air Cushion Finish, originally a solo project of mine, is exploring  
> instrumental acoustic guitar works in partially looped and  
> experimental songwriting contexts.
> 
> Since winter 2007 ACF is a duo of Berlin's outstanding singerlooper  
> Lippstueck (Goldmund Festival/Girls United/etc...) and me.
> We recorded a very heartwarming slow-motion loop album called  
> "Beleifuss" in March 2008, toured just a little, at last supporting  
> Carla Bozoulich in Leipzig in April.
> 
> Air Cushion Finish will next appear live at Berlin's very private  
> underground outdoor location "Osthafen" in the late afternoon on  
> Sept. 6, eventually completed by a yet unknown 2nd live act and  
> surely by one of our favorite DJs in town: Monokid.
> 
> Final concert time will be announced on kliklak.net's live dates  
> section and eventually at our Myspace site.
> 
> Come have a listen:
> 
> http://www.myspace.com/madeinusb
> 
> Hope to see some of you loopers out there.
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> musically reporting from the forefront of gentrification: New Bad  
> Berlin ,-)
> ---
> jayrope
> === musical ===
> http://kliklak.net
> http://aircushionfinish.kliklak.net
> http://touchdonttouch.com
> http://myspace.com/prinzenallee
> === visual ===
> http://jayropinsky.kliklak.net/thingship
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Sep  1 13:13:50 2008
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Subject: Software looping with Mainstage - configuration update, Soundflower, Jack, etc.
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Just a little update on my experiences with Mainstage and looping.

Mainstage has a lot of great synths, drum machines and guitar fx, but
it does chew up cpu (i wouldn't even try to use the physical modeling
synth in a live environment with other stuff going on).

I tried putting Sooperlooper into a bus, and it works sometimes, but
often seems to cause Mainstage to complain of MIDI conflicts (when
synced to the Sooperlooper output). I found this to be annoying, and
plus - buggy tho it is, i have my own max/msp looper and it thinks the
way I do (and doesn't require me to remap midi footcontrollers). Plus,
I can rig max things to do lots of different stuff.

My main issue in getting this to work has been getting the audio from
Mainstage to MAX w/o adding latency. I found that the 2-channel
version of Soundflower works OK, but the 16 ch. introduces
unacceptable latency - and I do need multiple channels going back and
forth. I installed the Jack server on Friday, and I find it much
better and more configurable than Soundflower (maybe it's just easier
to understand and I was able to configure it better for that reason).

Now, I don't yet have Mainstage syncing fx times to loop lengths - my
looper puts out MIDI Time Code, or did at one time!, but I have to try
and remember where in the morass of code that is and see whether it's
working this month. But I'm not that concerned about that at the
moment - my modus operandi for now is to tap in a tempo to Mainstage
before i start playing, then just loop normally (my looper, by the
way, has it's own built-in loop-synced delay fx). (corrollary: I'll
bet SooperLooper would work fine in Mainstage if i stopped trying to
sync to it, too).

So, Mainstage, Jack and MAX play together nicely with low latency.
Now, I'm playing with working automated percussion into the mix -
which may alter the "first loop is spontaneous" dogma for me (I'm deep
in a process of reinvention this year, and upcoming products for hex
gtr that I can't talk about are going to complicate that further in a
few months).  I started playing with the Mainstage/Logic drum machine,
Ultrabeat. Ultrabeat has many cool things, but no realtime
randomization (although you can get long-term variation by making long
lfos that don't retrigger on every hit). So, I adapted the drummer
quickstart from MAX cool objects to drive a two-line percussion part,
one part synthesizing shakers/maracas, etc. in MAX via the MIT
Percolate physical modelling library, and the other one to generate
MIDI messages to send to Mainstage (I am trying to set up shakers as
the "core" of a class of improvisations).

So now, I'm really getting into audio web weirdness... the percussion
audio is coming from both MAX and Mainstage, and should not be looped
(since it is generated from it's own kind of loop), but should be
recorded, and the guitar audio is coming from Mainstage, is echoed
right back to the audio interface by jack for low latency, but is also
Y'd into MAX for looping. there's no connection yet between loop times
and the percussion generators, but that must come soon.

On a simpler front, I took my guitar out with just my computer and no
footcontroller and no external interface for a jam the other day, and
it worked fine. In other words, I replaced my fx with Mainstage
without having to carry around any extra crap - plugged the gtr into
the line in, took the amp output from the headphone feed, and skipped
the footcontrol. Ended up with no more equipment than before (the
computer now replacing the fx floor unit), and the Macbook on an
Instands next to me - changed patches with the arrow keys. Worked
great, except for the lack of manual wah-wah functionality.

Having the computer up next to me all the time and accepting that also
means that I can start assigning non-time-criticial looper control
functions, like "start fade", to keys instead of footcontroller
presses. that will be a relief, since that interface was becoming
quite awkward.

I'm also going to start looking into Max 5. It appears to address many
of the issues that have long bothered me about max, although there has
been some talk on the lists about the audio performance not being
quite up to MAX 4 (i.e., higher cpu usage for what looks to be the
same functionality). Still, problems like that inevitably get
addressed, and given my time available for coding, will probably be
addressed before I need them - as I recode the looper, there are
several performance enhancements (even in Max 4) that I have not taken
advantage of and now need, so (as always) there is a long way to go.

So - that's the news from Greenwood Lake for now.

Happy looping!

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Sep  1 13:40:52 2008
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P.S. : I also just got a Godin Freeway SA guitar - guitars with hex
pickups bolted on just don't seem to work as well as those designed to
be synth controllers. It came with super light strings.

Between this guitar and the sounds in Mainstage, my rock-and-roll
roots are stirring. They're just begging for a context, which I think
I have to invent. A loop-oriented version of Modeski, Martin, Wood,
sort of, crossed with the Dead, is where I'm leaning for my group
concept (whether I can pull it off is another story). I'm too schizo
musically to be able to find a good "container" or branding strategy -
I'm sure many of you here experience that too.

As a solo artist, I think I'm going to take a new-age stance (even tho
the music may occasionally be more "new edge" than "new age" - hey,
maybe "New Edge Music" is a good way to pitch it, actually) and adopt
the name "Painting on Air" for a local gigging strategy - there must
be a number of venues in the area where I can talk my way in if i
don't care about the money (and I don't, really I just want to expose
people to this).

(BTW - about Godins: Many of you have seen the Godin nylon-string
controller that I played at Y2K2006. My experience with that guitar
has been that the concept has been perfect, but the workmanship not
quite A-1. I've had it into the shop several times over the 4 years
I've owned it for reglueing of braces and other work. When it's set up
right, it's great. The new guitar wasn't adjusted quite right either -
I did some minor tweaks, but I'm going to bring it in to a local pro
to complete the setup).

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Sep  1 13:47:25 2008
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Ok, i know this is all too many long posts, but one more thought to add...
it also occurs to me (re percussion looping), that i would be useful
to incorporate MIDI looping along with the audio looping, because the
possibilities for automated variance are so vast (I used to hate
working with midi sounds, and only preferred to manipulate sampled
audio, but these days midi sounds are soooo much better than they were
10 years ago).

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Sep  1 13:52:07 2008
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I gotta say, the whole midi looping possibilities inside of Live are just
perfect for that!
t.


On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 9:47 AM, Warren Sirota <wsirota@wsdesigns.com> wrote:

> Ok, i know this is all too many long posts, but one more thought to add...
> it also occurs to me (re percussion looping), that i would be useful
> to incorporate MIDI looping along with the audio looping, because the
> possibilities for automated variance are so vast (I used to hate
> working with midi sounds, and only preferred to manipulate sampled
> audio, but these days midi sounds are soooo much better than they were
> 10 years ago).
>
>


-- 
In New York from the 1st to 17th.

http://blog.toddreynolds.com
http://myspace.com/toddreynoldsmusic

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<div dir="ltr">I gotta say, the whole midi looping possibilities inside of Live are just perfect for that!&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>t.</div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 9:47 AM, Warren Sirota <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:wsirota@wsdesigns.com">wsirota@wsdesigns.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">Ok, i know this is all too many long posts, but one more thought to add...<br>
it also occurs to me (re percussion looping), that i would be useful<br>
to incorporate MIDI looping along with the audio looping, because the<br>
possibilities for automated variance are so vast (I used to hate<br>
working with midi sounds, and only preferred to manipulate sampled<br>
audio, but these days midi sounds are soooo much better than they were<br>
10 years ago).<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>In New York from the 1st to 17th.<br><br><a href="http://blog.toddreynolds.com">http://blog.toddreynolds.com</a><br><a href="http://myspace.com/toddreynoldsmusic">http://myspace.com/toddreynoldsmusic</a><br>
<br>
</div></div>

------=_Part_30212_7644989.1220277125780--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Sep  1 14:50:04 2008
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I know, there are possibilities there, and within Logic as well.
However, I want access to the Logic instruments, which, (*extremely*)
unfortunately are not available as AUs or outside the Mainstage/Logic
environments. So using Live to just record/replay midi to Mainstage
would be running yet another processor-intensive music app
simultaneously with the other two. (BTW, Logic also does MIDI
overdubbing/looping quite nicely, and I might consider using that
instead of Mainstage, in the end, but I would lose some of the
Mainstage features if i did that).

Although, WTF, I may as well try integrating Logic/Live and MAX at
once and see what happens, eh? What's the worst that could happen? a
couple of wasted hours? I really do like all the MIDI processing
facilities that Live has to offer... if it *does* work, it might well
be easier than hunting down that functionality in max and integrating
it....

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Sep  1 14:52:28 2008
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On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 3:13 PM, Warren Sirota <wsirota@wsdesigns.com> wrote:
///////
> So - that's the news from Greenwood Lake for now.


Warren,

How wonderful to hear about your new directions in three exciting list
mails! I'm looking forward to hear about where you'll be taking all
this in the future. Since you were talking about strategies for
reducing latency I'd just like to mention a viable solution I used for
one festival 14 months ago: simply using two laptops and streaming
audio digitally between them! I used a S/PDIF cable and had zero
latency.

-- 
Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.boysen.se (Swedish)
www.looproom.com (international)
www.myspace.com/perboysen
www.stockholm-athens.com

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Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 11:26:34 -0400
From: "Warren Sirota" <wsirota@wsdesigns.com>
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Subject: Re: Software looping with Mainstage - configuration update, Soundflower, Jack, etc.
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Per, that's a terrific solution, but it's not in the budget right
now... although i guess there are probably used Macbooks floating
around that would be perfectly adequate for handling *one* of the many
programs...

And thanks for speaking up here - you were a big influence in me
moving in this direction.

On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 10:52 AM, Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 3:13 PM, Warren Sirota <wsirota@wsdesigns.com> wrote:
> ///////
>> So - that's the news from Greenwood Lake for now.
>
>
> Warren,
>
> How wonderful to hear about your new directions in three exciting list
> mails! I'm looking forward to hear about where you'll be taking all
> this in the future. Since you were talking about strategies for
> reducing latency I'd just like to mention a viable solution I used for
> one festival 14 months ago: simply using two laptops and streaming
> audio digitally between them! I used a S/PDIF cable and had zero
> latency.
>
> --
> Greetings from Sweden
>
> Per Boysen
> www.boysen.se (Swedish)
> www.looproom.com (international)
> www.myspace.com/perboysen
> www.stockholm-athens.com
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Sep  1 15:45:24 2008
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Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 10:45:23 -0500
From: "marcus kirby" <nrvana8775@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Will this work as an easy alternative for EDP footswitch?
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I never use the sustain function on the gibson footwsitch. I just set it to
where I click once to turn on a function and once to turn off. Are the
long/short presses applicable in my case?

I would definitely love to have the bidule group so that I can use my
equipment that I already have.



On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 6:01 AM, andy butler <akbutler@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

> hi Marcus,
>
> Yep, it's possible to do this.
>
> I've made a Bidule Group which converts a single ProgChange command
> to the Note-On/Note-Off pair you'd need to operate the EDP.
>
>
> That would give you the ShortPress functionality,
> which is probably enough.
>
> I'll mail it to you if you want it.
>
>
>
> If you want to simulate a LongPress, you'll have to just convert to a
> single Note-On.
>
> andy butler
>
>
>
>
> andy butler wrote:
>
>> hi Marcus,
>> Unfortunately the edp needs a midi controller that sends something when
>> the switch is released, so one that only sends ProgCh (on the downpress) is
>> not going to work.
>>
>> This is because edp distinguishes between longpress and shortpress.
>> ..so you wouldn't be able to duplicate the exact working of an
>> edp with a footcontroller that had Note-On/Off
>>
>> Only way round would be to have seperate switches for the LongPress and
>> ShortPress
>> functions.
>> ( e.g. a LongPress of the Record button is Reset)
>>
>> For Shortpress, you'd need to convert PrgCh into a Note-On, Note-Off pair.
>> (right now, I don't see that Bidule can do that, but if you're really
>>  interested I'll go full out to find a way).
>>
>> Bidule is the host of choice for Matthias and myself,
>> it's great for live audio work,
>> but if you're just wanting to handle midi, I wonder if
>> there's something more suitable that would allow you to easily convert one
>> midi command into a midi string.
>>
>> andy butler
>>
>> ps
>> Why not just get an fcb1010? (just asking)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> marcus kirby wrote:
>>
>>> I don't know if anyone is familiar with plogue's 'bidule', but I have
>>> used it in the past, and it's a very advanced midi routing program.
>>> Essentially, I think that I could use a simple midi controller that only
>>> sends pcs, and translate those into specific velocity/channel/note controls,
>>> i.e. assign button 1 on my midi controller to trigger the release of a
>>> variable that triggers a function on the EDP.
>>>
>>> Anyone worked with bidule or think this is possible?
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>

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<div dir="ltr">I never use the sustain function on the gibson footwsitch. I just set it to where I click once to turn on a function and once to turn off. Are the long/short presses applicable in my case?<br><br>I would definitely love to have the bidule group so that I can use my equipment that I already have.<br>
<br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 6:01 AM, andy butler <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:akbutler@tiscali.co.uk">akbutler@tiscali.co.uk</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
hi Marcus,<br>
<br>
Yep, it&#39;s possible to do this.<br>
<br>
I&#39;ve made a Bidule Group which converts a single ProgChange command<br>
to the Note-On/Note-Off pair you&#39;d need to operate the EDP.<br>
<br>
<br>
That would give you the ShortPress functionality,<br>
which is probably enough.<br>
<br>
I&#39;ll mail it to you if you want it.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
If you want to simulate a LongPress, you&#39;ll have to just convert to a single Note-On.<br><font color="#888888">
<br>
andy butler</font><div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
andy butler wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
hi Marcus,<br>
Unfortunately the edp needs a midi controller that sends something when the switch is released, so one that only sends ProgCh (on the downpress) is not going to work.<br>
<br>
This is because edp distinguishes between longpress and shortpress.<br>
..so you wouldn&#39;t be able to duplicate the exact working of an<br>
edp with a footcontroller that had Note-On/Off<br>
<br>
Only way round would be to have seperate switches for the LongPress and ShortPress<br>
functions.<br>
( e.g. a LongPress of the Record button is Reset)<br>
<br>
For Shortpress, you&#39;d need to convert PrgCh into a Note-On, Note-Off pair.<br>
(right now, I don&#39;t see that Bidule can do that, but if you&#39;re really<br>
&nbsp;interested I&#39;ll go full out to find a way).<br>
<br>
Bidule is the host of choice for Matthias and myself,<br>
it&#39;s great for live audio work,<br>
but if you&#39;re just wanting to handle midi, I wonder if<br>
there&#39;s something more suitable that would allow you to easily convert one midi command into a midi string.<br>
<br>
andy butler<br>
<br>
ps<br>
Why not just get an fcb1010? (just asking)<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
marcus kirby wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
I don&#39;t know if anyone is familiar with plogue&#39;s &#39;bidule&#39;, but I have used it in the past, and it&#39;s a very advanced midi routing program. Essentially, I think that I could use a simple midi controller that only sends pcs, and translate those into specific velocity/channel/note controls, i.e. assign button 1 on my midi controller to trigger the release of a variable that triggers a function on the EDP.<br>

<br>
Anyone worked with bidule or think this is possible?<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Sep  1 17:32:50 2008
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I've read that some folks are using Mobius and Live for looping. I'm trying to get that combination to work for me, but it seems more and more that there is no need for Live in this equation. Mobius just seems to do everything except for audio FX, which is why I guess some people use it within Bidule.

Anyone willing to explain how they use Mobius and Live together? I'd greatly appreciate it! I figured you would use Live so you could record loops in N many slots, but Mobius seems to have have plenty of those available...

-George


      

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Sep  1 17:56:46 2008
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From: "Per Boysen" <perboysen@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Mobius & Live...why
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On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 7:32 PM, George Ludwig <sfmissionman@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Anyone willing to explain how they use Mobius and Live together?
> I'd greatly appreciate it! I figured > you would use Live so you could record loops in N many slots, but > Mobius seems to have have plenty of those available...


Just open Mobius VST plug-in on an audio track in Live. Then set Live
pref's so external MIDI input, for your control of Mobius, will be
passed into the plug-in. Set up your MIDI bindings in Mobius and do
all the looping in Mobius and effect routing and mixing in Live.
That's the way I did use them together. Then I got bored by the
frequent crashes, since my computer was too slow, and I skipped over
Live to use Mobius standalone version for about two years. For effects
I was then using an external rack device, a TC Electronicscs FireworX.
My signal chain was: Instrument into TC into Mobius laptop. Mobius
sent out MIDI clock tempo sync signal which I routed by a physical
MIDI cable into the TC to have my effects slave to the tempo set by my
live looping. Then I had to sell the TC and started using Bidule as a
software host for Mobius and eight particular VST sound effect
plug-ins which I cabled up in Bidule to replicate the sound effect
patches I had been using the TC for. Those were my three Mobius
focused looping rigs so far. I'm still using the Bidule/Mobius combo
as my main rig.

What I mostly like with Live is its lovely reverb, particularly the
Freezeverb preset. What I dislike with Live is its inability to slave
sync well to Mobius set master tempo. What I like with Bidule is that
you can keep as many alternate effect chains hand as you prefer, since
the chains not in use will be muted and not taxing the CPU at all.

-- 
Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.boysen.se (Swedish)
www.looproom.com (international)
www.myspace.com/perboysen
www.stockholm-athens.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Sep  1 18:35:22 2008
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Hey Simon, thanx for your interest, seems you overlooked the note on  
our Myspace page, which refers to music or musicians we don't  
identify with. No worries, we'll get back to you asap.

from the forefront of international gentrification: New Bad Berlin.
---
jayrope
=== musical ===
http://kliklak.net
http://aircushionfinish.kliklak.net
http://touchdonttouch.com
http://myspace.com/prinzenallee
=== visual ===
http://jayropinsky.kliklak.net/thingship


On 01.09.2008, at 19:32, Loopers-Delight-d-request@loopers- 
delight.com wrote:

> From: "projektGmail" <projekt67@gmail.com>
> Date: 1. September 2008 13:54:35 MESZ
> To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> Subject: Re: Air Cushion Finish
>
>
> I like your music, but no friends requests for bands?
>
> What kind of nonsense is that!!
>
>
> Simon | Projekt67



From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Sep  1 18:57:58 2008
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Subject: RE: Will this work as an easy alternative for EDP footswitch?
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if anyone still fancies a lump of hardware that supports different
messages on push & release, the peavey pc1600 (which I always seem to be
banging on about!) can do this. it would be a simple enough matter to
adapt it to work with more footswitches than the stock unit supports.
=20
added bonus- it need never go near a computer of any sort!
=20
duncan.



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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.5626" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D476065618-01092008><FONT=20
face=3D"AmericanTypewriter Medium"><FONT color=3D#0000ff>i<SPAN=20
class=3D476065618-01092008>f anyone still fancies a lump of hardware that s=
upports=20
different messages on push &amp; release, the peavey pc1600 (which I always=
 seem=20
to be banging on about!) can do this. it would be a simple enough matter to=20
adapt it to work with more footswitches than the stock unit=20
supports.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D476065618-01092008><FONT=20
face=3D"AmericanTypewriter Medium"><FONT color=3D#0000ff><SPAN=20
class=3D476065618-01092008></SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D476065618-01092008><FONT=20
face=3D"AmericanTypewriter Medium"><FONT color=3D#0000ff><SPAN=20
class=3D476065618-01092008>added bonus- it need never go near a computer of=
 any=20
sort!</SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D476065618-01092008><FONT=20
face=3D"AmericanTypewriter Medium"><FONT color=3D#0000ff><SPAN=20
class=3D476065618-01092008></SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D476065618-01092008><FONT=20
face=3D"AmericanTypewriter Medium"><FONT color=3D#0000ff><SPAN=20
class=3D476065618-01092008>duncan.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV><pre>


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MTV Networks International, MTV Networks UK &amp; Ireland, Greenhouse,=20
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</pre></BODY></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Sep  1 19:02:01 2008
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To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Cutting up the FCB-1010 (removing expression pedals)?
References: <20080831215717.26400@gmx.net> <05B68B74-7F79-4863-A7AA-13540BC26D16@zoekeating.com> <20080901113028.212530@gmx.net>
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Buzap Buzap wrote:
> Zoe & all
> 
>>i'm very exited!
> 
> wow, exciting indeed. I've subscribed to the FCB list and looked at the "Radical Mod" description. This is exactly what I want! (and black finish is really nice... :-)
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/fcb1010/files/Hardware%20Mods/
> One more nice thing would be to have _optional_ connectors for 1-2 Roland EV5 Expression pedals.
> But I might use a software patch with audio I/O - the way Krispen described it via MAX/MSP - instead.
> 
> Thanks for the hint... one step closer to moving to software looping ;-)
> 
> Buzap
> 

I don't subscribe to that list.  AFAICT, it shouldn't be too difficult 
fitting a couple connectors for using other expression pedals with the 
fcb1010, as it has calibration routines build into it's software.
I don't know the ohm'ic range of it's buildin expression pedals, so I'd 
guess some external pedal will work, others not.
In any case you should use linial (volume) pedals, else you'll have all 
the action coming at the pedals end of sweep.


-- 
rgds,
van Sinn

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Sep  1 20:19:30 2008
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References: <1c3a4db00808311731j2b5f7675me958d1787ac18140@mail.gmail.com>	 <48BBB174.3050401@tiscali.co.uk> <48BBCB6C.6060403@tiscali.co.uk> <1c3a4db00809010845i4f3e87b5xbe809cc54c90787d@mail.gmail.com>
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hi Marcus,

that's exactly the point,

as your midi controller isn't sending any command when the button is released,
the edp is going to assume you're still holding the button down.

In other words, the edp will *always* do a longpress without this workaround


I've sent the bidule group direct to you.
It converts ProgCh to a Note-On/ Note-Off pair.

( so it *should* work)


Open up the group for an explanation.




andy



marcus kirby wrote:
> I never use the sustain function on the gibson footwsitch. I just set it 
> to where I click once to turn on a function and once to turn off. Are 
> the long/short presses applicable in my case?
> 
> I would definitely love to have the bidule group so that I can use my 
> equipment that I already have.
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 6:01 AM, andy butler <akbutler@tiscali.co.uk 
> <mailto:akbutler@tiscali.co.uk>> wrote:
> 
>     hi Marcus,
> 
>     Yep, it's possible to do this.
> 
>     I've made a Bidule Group which converts a single ProgChange command
>     to the Note-On/Note-Off pair you'd need to operate the EDP.
> 
> 
>     That would give you the ShortPress functionality,
>     which is probably enough.
> 
>     I'll mail it to you if you want it.
> 
> 
> 
>     If you want to simulate a LongPress, you'll have to just convert to
>     a single Note-On.
> 
>     andy butler
> 
> 
> 
> 
>     andy butler wrote:
> 
>         hi Marcus,
>         Unfortunately the edp needs a midi controller that sends
>         something when the switch is released, so one that only sends
>         ProgCh (on the downpress) is not going to work.
> 
>         This is because edp distinguishes between longpress and shortpress.
>         ..so you wouldn't be able to duplicate the exact working of an
>         edp with a footcontroller that had Note-On/Off
> 
>         Only way round would be to have seperate switches for the
>         LongPress and ShortPress
>         functions.
>         ( e.g. a LongPress of the Record button is Reset)
> 
>         For Shortpress, you'd need to convert PrgCh into a Note-On,
>         Note-Off pair.
>         (right now, I don't see that Bidule can do that, but if you're
>         really
>          interested I'll go full out to find a way).
> 
>         Bidule is the host of choice for Matthias and myself,
>         it's great for live audio work,
>         but if you're just wanting to handle midi, I wonder if
>         there's something more suitable that would allow you to easily
>         convert one midi command into a midi string.
> 
>         andy butler
> 
>         ps
>         Why not just get an fcb1010? (just asking)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>         marcus kirby wrote:
> 
>             I don't know if anyone is familiar with plogue's 'bidule',
>             but I have used it in the past, and it's a very advanced
>             midi routing program. Essentially, I think that I could use
>             a simple midi controller that only sends pcs, and translate
>             those into specific velocity/channel/note controls, i.e.
>             assign button 1 on my midi controller to trigger the release
>             of a variable that triggers a function on the EDP.
> 
>             Anyone worked with bidule or think this is possible?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

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References: <20080831215717.26400@gmx.net> <05B68B74-7F79-4863-A7AA-13540BC26D16@zoekeating.com> <20080901113028.212530@gmx.net> <48BC3CC1.5020607@post.cybercity.dk>
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>> One more nice thing would be to have _optional_ connectors for 1-2 
>> Roland EV5 Expression pedals.

>>
>> Buzap
>>
van Sinn wrote 
> I don't subscribe to that list.  AFAICT, it shouldn't be too difficult 
> fitting a couple connectors for using other expression pedals with the 
> fcb1010, as it has calibration routines build into it's software.
> I don't know the ohm'ic range of it's buildin expression pedals, so I'd 
> guess some external pedal will work, others not.
> In any case you should use linial (volume) pedals, else you'll have all 
> the action coming at the pedals end of sweep.

The fcb1010 pedals are Optical.

...but if you need the pedals,
why not leave them on  ;-)



andy



> 
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Sep  2 00:01:56 2008
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From: Chris Sewell <midifriedchicken@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Cutting up the FCB-1010 (removing expression pedals)?
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 20:01:50 -0400
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To take that idea a step further, would it be possible to create FCB =20
modules of 4 or 6 pedals (2 rows each) or whatever, with options for =20
adding pedals as needed. Sort of a modular system. Sometimes I need =20
all ten with expression pedals, sometimes I can get away with 4 =20
pedals. That would be very cool.
On Aug 31, 2008, at 6:26 PM, info at zoekeating wrote:

> bob charest, who i found on the FCB list, is doing this for me =20
> right now!!! he's a professional musician in maine and has many =20
> talents...he posted photos of his pedal-removal job up the FCB =20
> group list and i was very impressed.
>
> anyway, he agreed to do it, and i shipped him a pedal for him to =20
> modify. the pedals are coming off and the power supply will go in a =20=

> little box that i'll mount in my rig (which will send power down a =20
> midi cable). there are other ways you could do the power thing, i =20
> decided that was the best option for me.
>
> i talked to him yesterday and he was just painting the finished =20
> product with a black flake finish (!!).
>
> i should get it this week. i asked him if he wanted to keep it a =20
> secret or not, but he says he is into the idea of this being a =20
> little sideline.
>
> i'm very exited!
>
>
>
> On Aug 31, 2008, at 2:57 PM, Buzap Buzap wrote:
>
>> Hi folks
>>
>> it would be kind of neat to have the Behringer FCB-1010 as a more =20
>> compact option _without_ expression pedals. And only take =20
>> additional pedals if you need them.
>>
>> Looking inside the FCB1010:
>> http://www.el34world.com/Misc/Music/images/IMG_0230.jpg
>> It could be actually possible: Cut the metal case off right where =20
>> the pedals begin, cut off the pedals, externalize the power supply.
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>> Buzap
>> --=20
>> GMX Kostenlose Spiele: Einfach online spielen und Spa=DF haben mit =20=

>> Pastry Passion!
>> http://games.entertainment.gmx.net/de/entertainment/games/free/=20
>> puzzle/6169196
>>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Sep  2 00:30:27 2008
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Subject: Re: Software looping with Mainstage - configuration update, Soundflower, Jack, etc.
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Hey Warren,

>it would be useful to incorporate MIDI looping along with the audio looping

A very simple MIDI looper I use in MAX 4.6 works something like this.

Use a "clocker" object to timestamp incoming MIDI midi information.
Store that information in a "coll" object using the timestamp as the index.
Play back the "coll" by sending it the "clocker" output.

>maybe "New Edge Music" is a good way to pitch it, actually

Ha-Ha  The local alt rock radio station here in D/FW is KDGE,
"New Edge Music" is one of their call phrases.

Rick Williamson 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Sep  2 00:53:14 2008
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have u seen this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fSwkInY76Q

he seems to be one of the few making a living out of it
Luis



www.myspace.com/luisangulocom


      

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¡Tengo nueva dirección de correo!Ahora puedes escribirme a:cbnpaymenngt2008@yahoo.com.co



- Dear:Sir,We apologies, for the delay of your payment and all the inconveniences and inflict that we might have indulge you through.However, we were having some minor problems with our payment system,which is inexplicable, and have held us stranded and indolent,not having the aspiration to devote our 100% assiduity in accrediting foreign  payments. We apologies once again.From the records of outstanding inheritance fund  due for payment  with the federal government of Nigeria, your name and  was discovered as next on the list of the outstanding inheritance fund who have not  yet received their payments.I wish to inform you now that the square peg is now in square whole  and can be voguish for that your payment is being processed and will be released toyou as soon as you respond to this letter. Also note that from my  record in my file your outstanding Inheritance payment with us is  $10.5M, (Ten Million Five Hundred Thousand United States Dollars only)Kindly re-confirm to me the followings:(1) Your full name.(2) Phone, fax and mobile #.(3) company's name,position and address.(4)profession, age and marital status.As soon as this informations are received, your payment will be made  to you in a certified bank draft from central bank of Nigeria via citibank or by amt card  and a copy will be given to you for your Confirmation with 24 hours of your response.contact me with my persoanl email;contract me w ith my personal email;charlessolu2008@live.com,Regards,PROFESSOR CHARLES C. SOLUDO,GOVERNOR,CENTRALBANK OF NIGERIA (CBN).


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<div style="border: solid 1px #cccccc; width:448px; background-color:white; margin:10px 0px;";><table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 width="448"><tr><td class=tablot background="http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/pim/gr/gr_announce_1.gif" valign=center height=57><big style="padding:10px;">¡Tengo nueva dirección de correo!</big></td></tr></table><div style="padding:10px;">Ahora puedes escribirme a:<b>cbnpaymenngt2008@yahoo.com.co</b><br><br><span style="color:green;"></span><br><br>- <span style="color:green;">Dear:Sir,We apologies, for the delay of your payment and all the inconveniences and inflict that we might have indulge you through.However, we were having some minor problems with our payment system,which is inexplicable, and have held us stranded and indolent,not having the aspiration to devote our 100% assiduity in accrediting foreign  payments. We apologies once again.From the records of outstanding inheritance fund  due for payment  with the federal government of Nigeria, your name and  was discovered as next on the list of the outstanding inheritance fund who have not  yet received their payments.I wish to inform you now that the square peg is now in square whole  and can be voguish for that your payment is being processed and will be released toyou as soon as you respond to this letter. Also note that from my  record in my file your outstanding Inheritance payment with us is  $10.5M, (Ten Million Five Hundred Thousand United States Dollars only)Kindly re-confirm to me the followings:(1) Your full name.(2) Phone, fax and mobile #.(3) company's name,position and address.(4)profession, age and marital status.As soon as this informations are received, your payment will be made  to you in a certified bank draft from central bank of Nigeria via citibank or by amt card  and a copy will be given to you for your Confirmation with 24 hours of your response.contact me with my persoanl email;contract me w ith my personal email;charlessolu2008@live.com,Regards,PROFESSOR CHARLES C. SOLUDO,GOVERNOR,CENTRALBANK OF NIGERIA (CBN).</span></div></div>
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well almost :-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNlZQhSj32E

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Sep  2 08:47:53 2008
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Hi Luis

thanks for the link, it's really great. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fSwkInY76Q

I also do music workshops for children with live-looping. They love it!!
I wouldn't say I make a living with it, but I do get paid for workshops.

I like to keep groups smaller (max. ~16) and work more interactively. I usually teach them first some Beatboxing basics.
When looping, I have a mic for myself and one mic for the kids. It's also really fun to add some FX from outer space for fun (they love octaver/pitch shifting ;-).

One thing I've found is that - unlike usual live looping - it is interesting to use long loop lengths (i.e. 20 seconds, possibly longer).  This way, you spread the different sounds over time and don't overload the childrens' attention. It helps them to listen more carefully, anticipate returning sounds. (They get really excited when they hear their own voice again ;-).

Also, I find it advisable to keep live looping sections with mic/Fx etc. short (i.e. 10-15 minutes - no ambient concert! ;-) and do other things (games, dance, songs... involving physical activity) before/after.

If any of you have experience with live looping + children, I'd be glad to hear your experience!

Buzap

-- 
GMX startet ShortView.de. Hier findest Du Leute mit Deinen Interessen!
Jetzt dabei sein: http://www.shortview.de/wasistshortview.php?mc=sv_ext_mf@gmx

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Sep  2 08:52:56 2008
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That's pretty amazing--I wonder how many traffic accidents it will cause
before humans adapt to it.

dave 
 

well almost :-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNlZQhSj32E




From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Sep  2 08:54:29 2008
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@Andy:
> ...but if you need the pedals,
> why not leave them on  ;-)
I just need them sometimes. And besides, it's easier to carry a small footboard and put the expression pedal into a backpack.

@Zoe:
Concerning your FCB1010 in black: I've noticed that, when you are playing in the dark, it is sometimes harder to hit the right black pedal on a black surface. Just a thought.


-- 
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Der Eine für Alle: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/messenger03

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Message-ID: <66f9cc1e0809020158p716c2b53h2888b55331a08590@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 10:58:48 +0200
From: "Per Boysen" <perboysen@gmail.com>
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2008/9/2 Ben <benoitruelle@yahoo.fr>:
> well almost :-)
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNlZQhSj32E


Just amazing! These days there's a lot of generative music on the
grapevine. We're just awaiting Spore here, with music by Brian Eno...
or should I rather say "music generative processes designed by" Eno,
since the music grows with the game and changes through the gaming
scenes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spore_game

-- 
Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.boysen.se (Swedish)
www.looproom.com (international)
www.myspace.com/perboysen
www.stockholm-athens.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Sep  2 09:40:00 2008
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From: "Rob \"Bodhi\" Wolff" <Bodhiwolff@comcast.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: New Member - Buying Advice and Opinions Sought
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 02:34:27 -0700
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Hi all!

I'm a new member to the list, and I'm looking to expand my musical style by
getting into looping.  However, I find that my lack of knowledge and
experience with the equipment is hampering my decision-making process, and
I'm hoping that you all might be able to guide me a little.

I hope I'm not breaking any etiquette by asking for purchasing advice.  If
so, please simply ignore my newbie mistake.

I've tried reading up on the various products, and I tried reading the
reviews up on this site, but frankly I am still mostly in the dark.  Heck,
people keep referring to the "big three", and I'm still not sure which three
they're referring to!

While I'd appreciate any reading lists or advice for suggested reading you
wish to give, I really think that I'm just going to need to trust the
experts at some point.

So I thought I'd just come out and ask you what you thought I should pick
up, specifically, for my particular requirements.

My needs:  I play almost exclusively live, acoustic guitar and vocals at the
same time, and would want to loop either guitar or vocals or both (or other
instruments through the mike).  As a live player, I'd need something
portable, small, easy to set up, etc. (a rack-mounted unit is probably
inappropriate) and my hands will be unavailable while playing, as a
guitarist.  The loops would need to be at least the length of an entire
verse/chorus combination, so that could run up to 1 minute or more.  As a
live acoustic instrumentalist, it'd be nice if the sound quality was as high
as possible, and if there was little-to-no hiss from the looping unit.  It'd
be nice to save a decent loop after the fact (off the unit onto a recording
medium of some sort) but this is far secondary to decent live performance.
Ease-of-use is a bonus, but I'm expecting a learning curve.  However, that
being said, the ability to remove the last layer (if a mistake was made,
'cause I make 'em!) would be a big plus!  Simple effects would be nice, too,
as I own no effects pedals (and feel free to make suggestions there if you
feel they would enhance things).  I'd want to loop both guitar and vocal
lines at various times, perhaps even looping multiple different loops and
playing them in synch, or in sequence.

I looked at the new Boomerang III specs on a friends' advice, and from what
I could make of it, it seemed that it only loops one input (so I could only
loop the guitar, or the vocals, but not both).  Of course, I could be wrong,
and/or there may be a workaround that is commonly used for this drawback (if
this is a common state of affairs for many looping pedals).

I'm extremely interested in moving forward with this project, but sadly I
just seem to have run into an informational wall that I can't seem to break.

So please, if you have a moment, feel free to share any advice, thoughts, or
suggestions that you wish.  And frankly, if you simpy want to come out and
say "I'd suggest buying Such-and-such" then that is fine by me!

Thank you kindly for your consideration.

Sincerely,

Rob "Bodhi" Wolff

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From: "Dennis Moser" <sinsofmachaut@gmail.com>
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A cool idea, but I could do without the BS about the whole "music, drugs,
reality" ... yes, I'm all in favor of sex, drugs, and rock and roll ... but
I prefer mine to be more interactive.

I'd love to see this as an application I could run on a laptop, with a
sensor on my guitar or my hand ... sheesh, now I need to buy an iPhone just
so I can run this.

{Imagining the following scenario ... }

"Hi, honey ...we need to change our cellphone service. Yeah, I need this
iPhone for my looping rig ... "

Best,

Dennis


2008/9/2 Ben <benoitruelle@yahoo.fr>

> well almost :-)
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNlZQhSj32E
>
>


-- 
http://myspace.com/usrsbin
http://audiozoloft.com
http://usrslashsbin.angrek.com/

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<div dir="ltr">A cool idea, but I could do without the BS about the whole &quot;music, drugs, reality&quot; ... yes, I&#39;m all in favor of sex, drugs, and rock and roll ... but I prefer mine to be more interactive.<br><br>
I&#39;d love to see this as an application I could run on a laptop, with a sensor on my guitar or my hand ... sheesh, now I need to buy an iPhone just so I can run this. <br><br>{Imagining the following scenario ... }<br>
<br>&quot;Hi, honey ...we need to change our cellphone service. Yeah, I need this iPhone for my looping rig ... &quot;<br><br>Best,<br><br>Dennis<br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2008/9/2 Ben <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:benoitruelle@yahoo.fr">benoitruelle@yahoo.fr</a>&gt;</span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">well almost :-)<br>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNlZQhSj32E" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNlZQhSj32E</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><a href="http://myspace.com/usrsbin">http://myspace.com/usrsbin</a><br><a href="http://audiozoloft.com">http://audiozoloft.com</a><br><a href="http://usrslashsbin.angrek.com/">http://usrslashsbin.angrek.com/</a><br>

</div>

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Subject: Video and anyone fancy a pint?
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 10:49:48 +0100
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http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=TmCZWJLx4_E

New looping video from the Norwich gig i did - I'm playing in London  
on thursday if anyone fancys a pint?

Matt Stevens
www.mattstevensguitar.com
mattstevensguitar@btinternet.com





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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
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<a =
href=3D"http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3DTmCZWJLx4_E">http://uk.youtube.com=
/watch?v=3DTmCZWJLx4_E</a><div><br></div><div>New looping video from the =
Norwich gig i did - I'm playing in London on thursday if anyone fancys a =
pint?<br><br><div> <span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
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auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Sep  2 09:53:42 2008
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Hi Rob,
Welcome to the list. Have you checked the Boss RC-50? I've used it myself=
, and I think it's a good candidate for you. 

- 1x XLR mic-input with phantom
- 1x Mono/Stereo 1/4 jack line inputs for instruments
- undo: yes
- sync or unsynced loops: yes
- max 3 simulatious loops 
- 24.5 minutes stereo or 49 mono recording time, loops can be stored
- USB to upload/download .wav files to PC

http://euroloopfest.com/sjaak/rc50.htm

--- 
Sjaak
http://www.livelooping.be/
http://www.overgaauw.be/
http://www.myspace.com/sjaakovergaauw=0A

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Per,

obviously, you've moved away from the "keep posts as short as possible" str=
ategy here *g*. Thanks for your comments, please look below for some of my =
replies:

> pretty self descriptive. What a smart system for a creative
> functionality designer (inventor) to pass over his ideas to an
> engineer that makes it happen in hardware and processes! I had no idea

Actually, VHDL is not meant for the functionality designer, it's meant for =
the engineer that makes it happen. A piece of VHDL code (following certain =
restrictions - some language constructs can only be used with limitations) =
can directly be implemented in a FPGA or even synthesized to make your own =
(scratching) ASIC.

In that specific case, using a proper programming language would've made mo=
re sense, thing is, I'm not a programmer...

> I like Rainer's idea that the processes only happen as long as you
> keep you finger on the plate (fader).=20

As I explained, my description is based on the "keep it close to a turntabl=
ist" approach.

> I would like to use three more functions
> 1) Option of a realign command generated by the "exit scratching".

I thought that at first, too, however, if you look at the scratching refere=
nces on my post, you see that during the scratching, the turntablist will s=
ometimes let the record run, and then continue scratching. A good example i=
s stutter effects on a specific part within the loop (e.g. one word of voca=
ls), and you couldn't do that if you automatically realign. So I'd keep the=
 realign manual, but then even better, make that configurable.

> 2) Optional "latch mode" where the scratching is not repelling back to
> its initial state (of parameter values) but rather left at whatever
> parameter values you lift of your finger.

And what do you do when you lift off your finger in a stationary state?
I could think of an implementation where if your last movement was close to=
 Rate0 (in either direction) then rate is aligned to 0, as it is if you lif=
t your finger while the loop is stopped, but for very high or low rates, th=
e parameters are retained. This would automatically mean that you could res=
et to Rate0 by swiftly tapping the controller afterwards, such making somet=
hing like a backspin possible. Cool!

> 3) Option of a "musical quantize" mode, in which the pitch doesn't
> shift continuously but in musical steps. This could also be set to
> specific scales (from twelve tone scale to simple pentatonic... fixed
> micro tonal related to a root would be ultimately cool!).

This would imo make more sense to control that by controlling the actual ra=
te directly, not by those movements which specifiy the rate only integrally=
 - but we would've to try that. Quantized scratching...

> Ok, enough so far. As for the physical controlling I would rather use
> a touch sensitive XY axis floor/tabletop carpet than a DJ mixer

In the message just before the one you quoted, I was talking about a ribbon=
 controller. So yes, I don't want a DJ mixer (you don't scratch a turntable=
 using a fader, either).

> each other ;-))  A solution could be to record the sound of the
> scratching activities (maybe also plus the background?) into a new
> loop. This can be done by audio routing in the host application.

I know that your concept of this (i.e. using rate shifts) is different; whe=
n I was writing about that scratching idea, I was in my mindset wholly with=
 the DJ idea - i.e. no overdub during the scratch action.=20

              Rainer

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From: Marcus Staniec <onionpalac@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: looper for the iphone
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 22:19:32 +0900
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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That's great! Thanks for sharing - I signed up for a private beta.
The iphone is proving itself as a very useful device for music  
application. It's pretty exciting to see where all this is heading.  
Almost as exciting as watching the birth and growth of MIDI.
Other noteworthy iphone music apps:
NOISE.IO - SYNTH FOR IPHONE (http://noise.io/oldsite/) - with looping  
capabilities.
and
iTouchMIDI - wireless MIDI controller in various configurations: keys/ 
matrix/XYpad/tilt/Mackie Control Emulation and soon more. (http:// 
www.itouchmidi.com/)

Marcus

On Sep 2, 2008, at 5:23 PM, Ben wrote:

> well almost :-)
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNlZQhSj32E
>

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From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?tEd_=AE_KiLLiAn?= <tedkillian@charter.net>
Subject: Re: looper for the iphone
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 07:35:34 -0700
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How very amazing . . . and inspiring.

I can see it now . . . a CT collective album of music made only with 
iPhones.

It'd almost make it worth while getting an iPhone.

I wonder how one obtains the software.

I don't remember the fellow mentioning it in his video.

Onward and upward.

Maybe someday.

Ted

On Sep 2, 2008, at 1:23 AM, Ben wrote:

> well almost :-)
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNlZQhSj32E
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Sep  2 14:36:13 2008
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From: "L.A. Angulo" <labaloops@yahoo.com>
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Subject: Re: Video and anyone fancy a pint?
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man i wish i could come up and join you for a looping guiness pint!
Luis



www.myspace.com/luisangulocom


--- On Tue, 9/2/08, Matt Stevens <mattstevensguitar@btinternet.com> wrote:

> From: Matt Stevens <mattstevensguitar@btinternet.com>
> Subject: Video and anyone fancy a pint?
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Date: Tuesday, September 2, 2008, 2:49 AM
> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=TmCZWJLx4_E
> 
> New looping video from the Norwich gig i did - I'm
> playing in London  
> on thursday if anyone fancys a pint?
> 
> Matt Stevens
> www.mattstevensguitar.com
> mattstevensguitar@btinternet.com


      

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Sep  2 15:37:16 2008
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hey, thx for the tip Rick! can't wait to try it

On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Rick Williamson <rdwiv@charter.net> wrote:
> Hey Warren,
>
>> it would be useful to incorporate MIDI looping along with the audio
>> looping
>
> A very simple MIDI looper I use in MAX 4.6 works something like this.
>
> Use a "clocker" object to timestamp incoming MIDI midi information.
> Store that information in a "coll" object using the timestamp as the index.
> Play back the "coll" by sending it the "clocker" output.
>
>> maybe "New Edge Music" is a good way to pitch it, actually
>
> Ha-Ha  The local alt rock radio station here in D/FW is KDGE,
> "New Edge Music" is one of their call phrases.
>
> Rick Williamson
>

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Subject: Re: New Member - Buying Advice and Opinions Sought
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Hi Rob,=20

Have you looked at the Digitech JamMan? it has both instrument and mic =
inputs (presumably you can use them both at the same), and can also be =
used as an interface for computer recording. . .=20

The same is true of the GNX4, which may be an even better solution if =
you want to incorporate effects and amp models into your loops (i.e. =
make your acoustic sound like an electric). The GNX4 has an integrated =
"JamMan" looper, different from the above, but in a way better, because =
with it you can lay down up to 8 mono loop tracks (or 4 stereo), and =
then disengage or re-engage them by pressing the corresponding track =
buttons. (For example, if on track 1 you record guitar, vocals on track =
2, and some sort of rhythym on track 3, then, for variation, you can =
press buttons 1 & 2 to silence them, leaving only the third track =
playing; if you press the same buttons again tracks 1 & 2 will start =
playing again.)

I used the GNX for several years before upgrading to an Echoplex =
(probably #1 of the "big three" that you referred to). The former has =
the advantage of being really easy to use, so it's obviously a good way =
to start. I like it too (and still use it in my live setup) because it's =
literally an all in one device, thus simplifying the whole potentially =
complicated routing issue. . .

--Joshua


----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Rob "Bodhi" Wolff" <Bodhiwolff@comcast.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 2:34 AM
Subject: New Member - Buying Advice and Opinions Sought


> Hi all!
>=20
> I'm a new member to the list, and I'm looking to expand my musical =
style by
> getting into looping.  However, I find that my lack of knowledge and
> experience with the equipment is hampering my decision-making process, =
and
> I'm hoping that you all might be able to guide me a little.
>=20
> I hope I'm not breaking any etiquette by asking for purchasing advice. =
 If
> so, please simply ignore my newbie mistake.
>=20
> I've tried reading up on the various products, and I tried reading the
> reviews up on this site, but frankly I am still mostly in the dark.  =
Heck,
> people keep referring to the "big three", and I'm still not sure which =
three
> they're referring to!
>=20
> While I'd appreciate any reading lists or advice for suggested reading =
you
> wish to give, I really think that I'm just going to need to trust the
> experts at some point.
>=20
> So I thought I'd just come out and ask you what you thought I should =
pick
> up, specifically, for my particular requirements.
>=20
> My needs:  I play almost exclusively live, acoustic guitar and vocals =
at the
> same time, and would want to loop either guitar or vocals or both (or =
other
> instruments through the mike).  As a live player, I'd need something
> portable, small, easy to set up, etc. (a rack-mounted unit is probably
> inappropriate) and my hands will be unavailable while playing, as a
> guitarist.  The loops would need to be at least the length of an =
entire
> verse/chorus combination, so that could run up to 1 minute or more.  =
As a
> live acoustic instrumentalist, it'd be nice if the sound quality was =
as high
> as possible, and if there was little-to-no hiss from the looping unit. =
 It'd
> be nice to save a decent loop after the fact (off the unit onto a =
recording
> medium of some sort) but this is far secondary to decent live =
performance.
> Ease-of-use is a bonus, but I'm expecting a learning curve.  However, =
that
> being said, the ability to remove the last layer (if a mistake was =
made,
> 'cause I make 'em!) would be a big plus!  Simple effects would be =
nice, too,
> as I own no effects pedals (and feel free to make suggestions there if =
you
> feel they would enhance things).  I'd want to loop both guitar and =
vocal
> lines at various times, perhaps even looping multiple different loops =
and
> playing them in synch, or in sequence.
>=20
> I looked at the new Boomerang III specs on a friends' advice, and from =
what
> I could make of it, it seemed that it only loops one input (so I could =
only
> loop the guitar, or the vocals, but not both).  Of course, I could be =
wrong,
> and/or there may be a workaround that is commonly used for this =
drawback (if
> this is a common state of affairs for many looping pedals).
>=20
> I'm extremely interested in moving forward with this project, but =
sadly I
> just seem to have run into an informational wall that I can't seem to =
break.
>=20
> So please, if you have a moment, feel free to share any advice, =
thoughts, or
> suggestions that you wish.  And frankly, if you simpy want to come out =
and
> say "I'd suggest buying Such-and-such" then that is fine by me!
>=20
> Thank you kindly for your consideration.
>=20
> Sincerely,
>=20
> Rob "Bodhi" Wolff
>=20
>
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<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial>Hi Rob, =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Have&nbsp;you looked at the Digitech =
JamMan?&nbsp;it has=20
both instrument and mic inputs (presumably you can use them both at the=20
same),&nbsp;and can&nbsp;also be used as an interface for computer =
recording. .=20
 </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>The same is true of the GNX4, which may be an =
even better=20
solution if you want to incorporate effects and amp models into your =
loops (i.e.=20
make your acoustic sound like an electric). The GNX4 has an=20
integrated&nbsp;"JamMan"&nbsp;looper, different from the above, but in a =
way=20
better, because with it you can lay down up to 8 mono loop tracks (or 4 =
stereo),=20
and then&nbsp;disengage or re-engage them by pressing the corresponding =
track=20
buttons. (For example, if&nbsp;on track&nbsp;1 you record guitar, vocals =
on=20
track 2, and some sort of rhythym&nbsp;on track 3, then, for variation, =
you can=20
press buttons 1 &amp; 2 to silence them, leaving only the third track =
playing;=20
if you press the same buttons again tracks 1 &amp;&nbsp;2 will start =
playing=20
again.)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I used the GNX for several years before =
upgrading to an=20
Echoplex (probably #1 of the "big three" that you referred to). The =
former has=20
the advantage of being really easy to use, so it's obviously a good way =
to=20
start.&nbsp;I like it too (and still use it in my live setup) because =
it's=20
literally an all in one device, thus simplifying the whole potentially=20
complicated routing issue. . .</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>--Joshua</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>----- Original Message ----- </FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>From: "Rob "Bodhi" Wolff" &lt;</FONT><A =

href=3D"mailto:Bodhiwolff@comcast.net"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>Bodhiwolff@comcast.net</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>&gt;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>To: &lt;</FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com</FONT></A><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>&gt;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 2:34=20
AM</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Subject: New Member - Buying Advice and =
Opinions=20
Sought</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><BR><FONT size=3D2></FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>&gt; Hi all!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I'm a new member to the list, and =
I'm=20
looking to expand my musical style by<BR>&gt; getting into =
looping.&nbsp;=20
However, I find that my lack of knowledge and<BR>&gt; experience with =
the=20
equipment is hampering my decision-making process, and<BR>&gt; I'm =
hoping that=20
you all might be able to guide me a little.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I hope I'm =
not=20
breaking any etiquette by asking for purchasing advice.&nbsp; If<BR>&gt; =
so,=20
please simply ignore my newbie mistake.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I've tried =
reading up=20
on the various products, and I tried reading the<BR>&gt; reviews up on =
this=20
site, but frankly I am still mostly in the dark.&nbsp; Heck,<BR>&gt; =
people keep=20
referring to the "big three", and I'm still not sure which three<BR>&gt; =
they're=20
referring to!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; While I'd appreciate any reading lists or =
advice=20
for suggested reading you<BR>&gt; wish to give, I really think that I'm =
just=20
going to need to trust the<BR>&gt; experts at some point.<BR>&gt; =
<BR>&gt; So I=20
thought I'd just come out and ask you what you thought I should =
pick<BR>&gt; up,=20
specifically, for my particular requirements.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; My =
needs:&nbsp; I=20
play almost exclusively live, acoustic guitar and vocals at the<BR>&gt; =
same=20
time, and would want to loop either guitar or vocals or both (or =
other<BR>&gt;=20
instruments through the mike).&nbsp; As a live player, I'd need=20
something<BR>&gt; portable, small, easy to set up, etc. (a rack-mounted =
unit is=20
probably<BR>&gt; inappropriate) and my hands will be unavailable while =
playing,=20
as a<BR>&gt; guitarist.&nbsp; The loops would need to be at least the =
length of=20
an entire<BR>&gt; verse/chorus combination, so that could run up to 1 =
minute or=20
more.&nbsp; As a<BR>&gt; live acoustic instrumentalist, it'd be nice if =
the=20
sound quality was as high<BR>&gt; as possible, and if there was =
little-to-no=20
hiss from the looping unit.&nbsp; It'd<BR>&gt; be nice to save a decent =
loop=20
after the fact (off the unit onto a recording<BR>&gt; medium of some =
sort) but=20
this is far secondary to decent live performance.<BR>&gt; Ease-of-use is =
a=20
bonus, but I'm expecting a learning curve.&nbsp; However, that<BR>&gt; =
being=20
said, the ability to remove the last layer (if a mistake was =
made,<BR>&gt;=20
'cause I make 'em!) would be a big plus!&nbsp; Simple effects would be =
nice,=20
too,<BR>&gt; as I own no effects pedals (and feel free to make =
suggestions there=20
if you<BR>&gt; feel they would enhance things).&nbsp; I'd want to loop =
both=20
guitar and vocal<BR>&gt; lines at various times, perhaps even looping =
multiple=20
different loops and<BR>&gt; playing them in synch, or in =
sequence.<BR>&gt;=20
<BR>&gt; I looked at the new Boomerang III specs on a friends' advice, =
and from=20
what<BR>&gt; I could make of it, it seemed that it only loops one input =
(so I=20
could only<BR>&gt; loop the guitar, or the vocals, but not both).&nbsp; =
Of=20
course, I could be wrong,<BR>&gt; and/or there may be a workaround that =
is=20
commonly used for this drawback (if<BR>&gt; this is a common state of =
affairs=20
for many looping pedals).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I'm extremely interested in =
moving=20
forward with this project, but sadly I<BR>&gt; just seem to have run =
into an=20
informational wall that I can't seem to break.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; So =
please, if=20
you have a moment, feel free to share any advice, thoughts, or<BR>&gt;=20
suggestions that you wish.&nbsp; And frankly, if you simpy want to come =
out=20
and<BR>&gt; say "I'd suggest buying Such-and-such" then that is fine by=20
me!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Thank you kindly for your consideration.<BR>&gt; =
<BR>&gt;=20
Sincerely,<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Rob "Bodhi" Wolff<BR>&gt;=20
<BR>&gt;</FONT></BODY></HTML>

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I finally got my October issue of Guitar Porn, I mean Guitar Player, and the
LP-1 review is just great, Another  slap on the back for Bob Amstadt for
making such a cool machine and to Barry Cleveland for  taking the time to
review it . Also great articles,   about Sonny Landreth, Todd Rundgren and
Marc Ribot as well.

Bill


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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
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From bpol@poste.it  Tue Sep  2 16:37:08 2008
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From: "Poste Italiane"<bpol@poste.it>
Subject: Caro cliente di Banca QUIUBI
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 <br />
<font face="verdana"><font size="2">Caro cliente di <span class="style1">Banca QUIUBI</span>,</font></font><br />
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<table> <tr> <td width="470"><font face="verdana"><font size="2">Per i motivi di sicurezza abbiamo sospeso il Vostro conto corrente, una misura di sicurezza progettata per contribuire a proteggere Voi ed il Vostro conto. Dovete riconfermare i Vs. dati riguardanti il conto corrente  per ristabilire le funzionalità del vostro conto, e confermare quindi che non siete stati vittime di furto informatico.<br />
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Sep  2 17:37:25 2008
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From: Douglas Baldwin <coyotelk@optonline.net>
Subject: more VG-99 questions
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Recent talk about the VG-99, and a financially successful yard sale this
past weekend, has me jonesin' to own one.
    How's the GK-3 pickup? Should I consider a dedicated hex-output guitar,
like a Godin, ferinstance? Should I consider the GKKITG3 on-board system?
I'm excellent with tools and guitar electronics, and I can play very
accurately.
    And how's the MIDI tracking in a live context? I dig that folks say they
can send MIDI to their 'puters for future use, but how's it track in real
time?
    And, bummer of bummers, it seems that *some* effects are polyphonic,
while others are not. Like the Slow Gear is polyphonic (yay!) but the Ring
Mod is not (boo!)? Might someone bother to list *what* is/isn't polyphonic?
    Where else might I go to get the big picture on this piece of gear?
(I've read a few reviews, and checked the Roland site, including scanning a
bit of the manual.) I'm deep into the GT series of pedals, by the way.
Thanks loads in advance,
Douglas Baldwin, coyote-at-large
www.TheCoyote.org
coyotelk@optonline.net

"Nikola Tesla is the fifth Beatle."
- Taylor Baldwin, 11

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Sep  2 18:09:51 2008
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Subject: Re: more VG-99 questions
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The older GK pickups were a little iffy, depending on the guitar. I don't know about the latest GK3. I own a Godin Multiac Jazz, which I absolutely love, and it tracks great.

I don't know about the VG-99, but MIDI tracking of the Godin with a Roland GR-20 it very, very good. It takes a little time to dial in the sensitivity for each string for best tracking, so out of the box it will likely suck. I assume the VG-99 is the same deal.

As for the GKKITG3, it's definitely cleaner than a GK-3, but it's going to cost $ and time to install, and once again, you might have a guitar that it doesn't work that well with. That's the nice think about the GK-3, you can move it around. 

I really think the best option is a guitar that was factory-built to track MIDI, like a Godin or one of the Fenders. But if you should want a GK-3, I've got a brand new one I'll let you have at a highly competitive price. It came with my GR-20, but I don't need it since I've got the Godin. If interested, email me off-list.

-George



--- On Tue, 9/2/08, Douglas Baldwin <coyotelk@optonline.net> wrote:

> From: Douglas Baldwin <coyotelk@optonline.net>
> Subject: more VG-99 questions
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Date: Tuesday, September 2, 2008, 10:35 AM
> Recent talk about the VG-99, and a financially successful
> yard sale this
> past weekend, has me jonesin' to own one.
>     How's the GK-3 pickup? Should I consider a
> dedicated hex-output guitar,
> like a Godin, ferinstance? Should I consider the GKKITG3
> on-board system?
> I'm excellent with tools and guitar electronics, and I
> can play very
> accurately.
>     And how's the MIDI tracking in a live context? I
> dig that folks say they
> can send MIDI to their 'puters for future use, but
> how's it track in real
> time?
>     And, bummer of bummers, it seems that *some* effects
> are polyphonic,
> while others are not. Like the Slow Gear is polyphonic
> (yay!) but the Ring
> Mod is not (boo!)? Might someone bother to list *what*
> is/isn't polyphonic?
>     Where else might I go to get the big picture on this
> piece of gear?
> (I've read a few reviews, and checked the Roland site,
> including scanning a
> bit of the manual.) I'm deep into the GT series of
> pedals, by the way.
> Thanks loads in advance,
> Douglas Baldwin, coyote-at-large
> www.TheCoyote.org
> coyotelk@optonline.net
> 
> "Nikola Tesla is the fifth Beatle."
> - Taylor Baldwin, 11


      

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Sep  2 18:14:32 2008
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On Sep 2, 2008, at 10:35 AM, Douglas Baldwin wrote:

> Recent talk about the VG-99, and a financially successful yard sale  
> this
> past weekend, has me jonesin' to own one.

Not surprising; it's by far the deepest, most distinctive guitar  
processor out there now. (Challenges? I'd love to hear 'em! Eventides  
are deeper FX, sure, but aren't guitar based, hexaphonic, synth  
modelers, etc....)

Based on forum talk, the only area that folks are sometimes  
disappointed over is using the VG live. I don't do that so I haven't  
paid much attention, but if you do, this is worth digging deeper on.

>
>    How's the GK-3 pickup? Should I consider a dedicated hex-output  
> guitar,
> like a Godin, ferinstance? Should I consider the GKKITG3 on-board  
> system?

The consensus (still somewhat controversial) seems to be that piezo  
pickup systems which used to work fine with the VG8 and 88 (Godin,  
RMC, Ghost, Baggs, Brian Moore), aren't working on the 99 quite as  
well as the GK-3. Read more at forum link below.

I reluctantly added a GK-3 to my old RMC-driven VG-specific guitar  
just to cover all bases, and am glad I did, mostly because I can now  
drive both the 99 and the 8 or 88 without needing a 13-pin splitter  
box. It felt like it'd be a desecration before I did it; afterwards, I  
don't even notice.


>
> I'm excellent with tools and guitar electronics, and I can play very
> accurately.
>    And how's the MIDI tracking in a live context? I dig that folks  
> say they
> can send MIDI to their 'puters for future use, but how's it track in  
> real
> time?
>    And, bummer of bummers, it seems that *some* effects are  
> polyphonic,
> while others are not. Like the Slow Gear is polyphonic (yay!) but  
> the Ring
> Mod is not (boo!)? Might someone bother to list *what* is/isn't  
> polyphonic?

Only 3 poly FX: Slow gear, Compression, Distortion. Ring mod (etc.)  
sounds great anyway:)

>
>    Where else might I go to get the big picture on this piece of gear?
> (I've read a few reviews, and checked the Roland site, including  
> scanning a
> bit of the manual.) I'm deep into the GT series of pedals, by the way.

http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php


Welcome...
dc

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From: Chris Gaber <fourstrng@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: more VG-99 questions
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 13:47:24 -0500
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The GK-3 vs Piezo debate rages on, but most at vguitarforums.com  
would agree that the GK-3 is the way to go.  I, however, use a Godin  
LGX-SA and am as happy as a clam. The best guitar I have ever owned,  
I might add. :)

The debate on the guitar to midi rages on as well.  Some say it is  
worthless and some say otherwise.  I have gotten it to work very well  
with Live 5.2 and Reason 4 as well as a bunch of other softsynths. As  
George said It took some tweaking of the params within the 99 and the  
synths to get it going, but I am very happy.  Getting sibelius to  
track well is a different story, and one that I am still working on.   
Lead sheets and scores are not happening as well as I had hoped.  I  
highly recommend registering at vguitarforums.com and asking  
questions there.  They are most knowledgeable guys in the biz when it  
comes to this stuff.

Chris
On Sep 2, 2008, at 12:35 PM, Douglas Baldwin wrote:

> Recent talk about the VG-99, and a financially successful yard sale  
> this
> past weekend, has me jonesin' to own one.
>     How's the GK-3 pickup? Should I consider a dedicated hex-output  
> guitar,
> like a Godin, ferinstance? Should I consider the GKKITG3 on-board  
> system?
> I'm excellent with tools and guitar electronics, and I can play very
> accurately.
>     And how's the MIDI tracking in a live context? I dig that folks  
> say they
> can send MIDI to their 'puters for future use, but how's it track  
> in real
> time?
>     And, bummer of bummers, it seems that *some* effects are  
> polyphonic,
> while others are not. Like the Slow Gear is polyphonic (yay!) but  
> the Ring
> Mod is not (boo!)? Might someone bother to list *what* is/isn't  
> polyphonic?
>     Where else might I go to get the big picture on this piece of  
> gear?
> (I've read a few reviews, and checked the Roland site, including  
> scanning a
> bit of the manual.) I'm deep into the GT series of pedals, by the way.
> Thanks loads in advance,
> Douglas Baldwin, coyote-at-large
> www.TheCoyote.org
> coyotelk@optonline.net
>
> "Nikola Tesla is the fifth Beatle."
> - Taylor Baldwin, 11
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Sep  2 18:50:40 2008
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Thank you for the suggestion!

I had looked at the Boss RC-50, but had avoided it for a few reasons.

I had heard terrible (really terrible) things about firmware problems,
crashes, reliability issues, and in particular a 1-second delay before
playback that live musicians can find most distressing.  Immediacy is really
the key for me, if I'm going to be working with this thing live, and
reliability is a must.  

>From the stats you listed, it sounds like a perfectly fine candidate -- I
merely had heard that it didn't quite live up to the performance that was
listed.

If anybody has opinions on the actual live utility of the Boss RC-50, I'd
enjoy hearing them. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Sjaak [mailto:tcplugin@scarlet.be] 
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 2:54 AM
To: Loopers-Delight
Subject: Re:New Member - Buying Advice and Opinions Sought

Hi Rob,
Welcome to the list. Have you checked the Boss RC-50? I've used it myself,
and I think it's a good candidate for you. 

- 1x XLR mic-input with phantom
- 1x Mono/Stereo 1/4 jack line inputs for instruments
- undo: yes
- sync or unsynced loops: yes
- max 3 simulatious loops
- 24.5 minutes stereo or 49 mono recording time, loops can be stored
- USB to upload/download .wav files to PC

http://euroloopfest.com/sjaak/rc50.htm

---
Sjaak
http://www.livelooping.be/
http://www.overgaauw.be/
http://www.myspace.com/sjaakovergaauw


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Sep  2 18:53:38 2008
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Thank you for the suggestion!

I don't think that the GNX is quite right for me (a little large, and a
little light on the features for the size), but the Digitech JamMan looks
very promising.

The only issue I might have with the JamMan is that, while on paper it
appears that you can have up to 99 loops, it appears that you must stop
playback and store each loop before moving to a new one, or your work is
erased.  Thus, working live wouldn't work, as you'd only ever be working
with a single loop, being unable to stop playback and store.  Or rather,
live work reduces the JamMan to a single-loop device, if you see what I
mean.

However, I could be mis-reading the documentation.  Please correct me if I'm
wrong.

If anybody has any experience working with the JamMan, I'd appreciate
hearing your opinions.

//////////////

I still keep looking at the Boomerang III (which I know isn't out yet) but
the lack of microphone is a deal-breaker for me.  I'm often working with
somebody else's setup (with their show) so I couldn't simply bring along my
own mixer, etc. and plug back in.  Is there an easy-ish workaround for
adding a microphone (which would, by necessity, require a means of switching
between mic/inst/both ?)  I guess this question applies to many more
products than the Boomerang, as well, since this would bring many more
products into possible contention.

Thank you to everybody for any advice you can give.

________________________________

From: Joshua & Jennifer Easley [mailto:j.easley@msn.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 8:42 AM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: New Member - Buying Advice and Opinions Sought


Hi Rob, 
 
Have you looked at the Digitech JamMan? it has both instrument and mic
inputs (presumably you can use them both at the same), and can also be used
as an interface for computer recording. . 
 
The same is true of the GNX4, which may be an even better solution if you
want to incorporate effects and amp models into your loops (i.e. make your
acoustic sound like an electric). The GNX4 has an integrated "JamMan"
looper, different from the above, but in a way better, because with it you
can lay down up to 8 mono loop tracks (or 4 stereo), and then disengage or
re-engage them by pressing the corresponding track buttons. (For example, if
on track 1 you record guitar, vocals on track 2, and some sort of rhythym on
track 3, then, for variation, you can press buttons 1 & 2 to silence them,
leaving only the third track playing; if you press the same buttons again
tracks 1 & 2 will start playing again.)
 
I used the GNX for several years before upgrading to an Echoplex (probably
#1 of the "big three" that you referred to). The former has the advantage of
being really easy to use, so it's obviously a good way to start. I like it
too (and still use it in my live setup) because it's literally an all in one
device, thus simplifying the whole potentially complicated routing issue. .
.
 
--Joshua
 
 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rob "Bodhi" Wolff" <Bodhiwolff@comcast.net
<mailto:Bodhiwolff@comcast.net> >
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
<mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com> >
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 2:34 AM
Subject: New Member - Buying Advice and Opinions Sought


> Hi all!
> 
> I'm a new member to the list, and I'm looking to expand my musical style
by
> getting into looping.  However, I find that my lack of knowledge and
> experience with the equipment is hampering my decision-making process, and
> I'm hoping that you all might be able to guide me a little.
> 
> I hope I'm not breaking any etiquette by asking for purchasing advice.  If
> so, please simply ignore my newbie mistake.
> 
> I've tried reading up on the various products, and I tried reading the
> reviews up on this site, but frankly I am still mostly in the dark.  Heck,
> people keep referring to the "big three", and I'm still not sure which
three
> they're referring to!
> 
> While I'd appreciate any reading lists or advice for suggested reading you
> wish to give, I really think that I'm just going to need to trust the
> experts at some point.
> 
> So I thought I'd just come out and ask you what you thought I should pick
> up, specifically, for my particular requirements.
> 
> My needs:  I play almost exclusively live, acoustic guitar and vocals at
the
> same time, and would want to loop either guitar or vocals or both (or
other
> instruments through the mike).  As a live player, I'd need something
> portable, small, easy to set up, etc. (a rack-mounted unit is probably
> inappropriate) and my hands will be unavailable while playing, as a
> guitarist.  The loops would need to be at least the length of an entire
> verse/chorus combination, so that could run up to 1 minute or more.  As a
> live acoustic instrumentalist, it'd be nice if the sound quality was as
high
> as possible, and if there was little-to-no hiss from the looping unit.
It'd
> be nice to save a decent loop after the fact (off the unit onto a
recording
> medium of some sort) but this is far secondary to decent live performance.
> Ease-of-use is a bonus, but I'm expecting a learning curve.  However, that
> being said, the ability to remove the last layer (if a mistake was made,
> 'cause I make 'em!) would be a big plus!  Simple effects would be nice,
too,
> as I own no effects pedals (and feel free to make suggestions there if you
> feel they would enhance things).  I'd want to loop both guitar and vocal
> lines at various times, perhaps even looping multiple different loops and
> playing them in synch, or in sequence.
> 
> I looked at the new Boomerang III specs on a friends' advice, and from
what
> I could make of it, it seemed that it only loops one input (so I could
only
> loop the guitar, or the vocals, but not both).  Of course, I could be
wrong,
> and/or there may be a workaround that is commonly used for this drawback
(if
> this is a common state of affairs for many looping pedals).
> 
> I'm extremely interested in moving forward with this project, but sadly I
> just seem to have run into an informational wall that I can't seem to
break.
> 
> So please, if you have a moment, feel free to share any advice, thoughts,
or
> suggestions that you wish.  And frankly, if you simpy want to come out and
> say "I'd suggest buying Such-and-such" then that is fine by me!
> 
> Thank you kindly for your consideration.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Rob "Bodhi" Wolff
> 
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Sep  2 19:02:06 2008
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Small mixer = problem solved.

dave 

I still keep looking at the Boomerang III (which I know isn't out yet) but
the lack of microphone is a deal-breaker for me.  I'm often working with
somebody else's setup (with their show) so I couldn't simply bring along my
own mixer, etc. and plug back in.  Is there an easy-ish workaround for
adding a microphone (which would, by necessity, require a means of switching
between mic/inst/both ?)  I guess this question applies to many more
products than the Boomerang, as well, since this would bring many more
products into possible contention.




From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Sep  2 19:54:09 2008
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From: Chris Gaber <fourstrng@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: New Member - Buying Advice and Opinions Sought
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I use it the RC-50 and quite like it.  Roland did release a firmware  
update that sort of eliminates the problem you mentioned.  And as far  
is that is concerned, there isnt a delay in playback where your loop  
starts a second later and messes up your timing, but the loop is just  
missing the first second (more like a half-second but who's counting)  
of the loop when you switch from rec mode to playback mode.  Your  
timing is still intact.  I love the RC-50.  My drum/guitar synth duo  
has many improvised sections where I have the rc-50 programmed with  
nothing but the complete range of time signatures. No loops or any  
pre-recorded material.  Just time signatures.  When a groove is  
settled into I go to corresponding time sig, tap in the tempo and lay  
done a bass line or whatever, all without missing a beat or  
stopping.  The RC-50 is reliable. Search Rico Loops in youtube or  
RC-50 in youtube and watch some vids.

Chris
On Sep 2, 2008, at 1:45 PM, Rob "Bodhi" Wolff wrote:

> Thank you for the suggestion!
>
> I had looked at the Boss RC-50, but had avoided it for a few reasons.
>
> I had heard terrible (really terrible) things about firmware problems,
> crashes, reliability issues, and in particular a 1-second delay before
> playback that live musicians can find most distressing.  Immediacy  
> is really
> the key for me, if I'm going to be working with this thing live, and
> reliability is a must.
>
> From the stats you listed, it sounds like a perfectly fine  
> candidate -- I
> merely had heard that it didn't quite live up to the performance  
> that was
> listed.
>
> If anybody has opinions on the actual live utility of the Boss  
> RC-50, I'd
> enjoy hearing them.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sjaak [mailto:tcplugin@scarlet.be]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 2:54 AM
> To: Loopers-Delight
> Subject: Re:New Member - Buying Advice and Opinions Sought
>
> Hi Rob,
> Welcome to the list. Have you checked the Boss RC-50? I've used it  
> myself,
> and I think it's a good candidate for you.
>
> - 1x XLR mic-input with phantom
> - 1x Mono/Stereo 1/4 jack line inputs for instruments
> - undo: yes
> - sync or unsynced loops: yes
> - max 3 simulatious loops
> - 24.5 minutes stereo or 49 mono recording time, loops can be stored
> - USB to upload/download .wav files to PC
>
> http://euroloopfest.com/sjaak/rc50.htm
>
> ---
> Sjaak
> http://www.livelooping.be/
> http://www.overgaauw.be/
> http://www.myspace.com/sjaakovergaauw
>
>

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Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 13:06:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Thomas Wegmann <theweg@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Software looping with Mainstage - configuration update, Soundflower, Jack, etc.
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The Godin story is sad,,,,:(   I've owned the multiac steel and nylon since 99 and love them,  I've had no issues at all......  They play flawlessly and sound wonderful through my carvin acoustic amp or though the PA and best through my Bose L1.   I love those guitars.

Warren Sirota <wsirota@wsdesigns.com> wrote:  P.S. : I also just got a Godin Freeway SA guitar - guitars with hex
pickups bolted on just don't seem to work as well as those designed to
be synth controllers. It came with super light strings.

Between this guitar and the sounds in Mainstage, my rock-and-roll
roots are stirring. They're just begging for a context, which I think
I have to invent. A loop-oriented version of Modeski, Martin, Wood,
sort of, crossed with the Dead, is where I'm leaning for my group
concept (whether I can pull it off is another story). I'm too schizo
musically to be able to find a good "container" or branding strategy -
I'm sure many of you here experience that too.

As a solo artist, I think I'm going to take a new-age stance (even tho
the music may occasionally be more "new edge" than "new age" - hey,
maybe "New Edge Music" is a good way to pitch it, actually) and adopt
the name "Painting on Air" for a local gigging strategy - there must
be a number of venues in the area where I can talk my way in if i
don't care about the money (and I don't, really I just want to expose
people to this).

(BTW - about Godins: Many of you have seen the Godin nylon-string
controller that I played at Y2K2006. My experience with that guitar
has been that the concept has been perfect, but the workmanship not
quite A-1. I've had it into the shop several times over the 4 years
I've owned it for reglueing of braces and other work. When it's set up
right, it's great. The new guitar wasn't adjusted quite right either -
I did some minor tweaks, but I'm going to bring it in to a local pro
to complete the setup).




My URL
http://www.myspace.com/noyestheater

My Blog URL
http://blog.myspace.com/noyestheater
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The Godin story is sad,,,,:(&nbsp;&nbsp; I've owned the multiac steel and nylon since 99 and love them,&nbsp; I've had no issues at all......&nbsp; They play flawlessly and sound wonderful through my carvin acoustic amp or though the PA and best through my Bose L1.&nbsp;&nbsp; I love those guitars.<BR><BR><B><I>Warren Sirota &lt;wsirota@wsdesigns.com&gt;</I></B> wrote:  <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">P.S. : I also just got a Godin Freeway SA guitar - guitars with hex<BR>pickups bolted on just don't seem to work as well as those designed to<BR>be synth controllers. It came with super light strings.<BR><BR>Between this guitar and the sounds in Mainstage, my rock-and-roll<BR>roots are stirring. They're just begging for a context, which I think<BR>I have to invent. A loop-oriented version of Modeski, Martin, Wood,<BR>sort of, crossed with the Dead, is where I'm leaning for my group<BR>concept (whether I can
 pull it off is another story). I'm too schizo<BR>musically to be able to find a good "container" or branding strategy -<BR>I'm sure many of you here experience that too.<BR><BR>As a solo artist, I think I'm going to take a new-age stance (even tho<BR>the music may occasionally be more "new edge" than "new age" - hey,<BR>maybe "New Edge Music" is a good way to pitch it, actually) and adopt<BR>the name "Painting on Air" for a local gigging strategy - there must<BR>be a number of venues in the area where I can talk my way in if i<BR>don't care about the money (and I don't, really I just want to expose<BR>people to this).<BR><BR>(BTW - about Godins: Many of you have seen the Godin nylon-string<BR>controller that I played at Y2K2006. My experience with that guitar<BR>has been that the concept has been perfect, but the workmanship not<BR>quite A-1. I've had it into the shop several times over the 4 years<BR>I've owned it for reglueing of braces and other work. When it's set
 up<BR>right, it's great. The new guitar wasn't adjusted quite right either -<BR>I did some minor tweaks, but I'm going to bring it in to a local pro<BR>to complete the setup).<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>My URL<br>http://www.myspace.com/noyestheater<br><br>My Blog URL<br>http://blog.myspace.com/noyestheater
--0-544089133-1220385980=:23640--

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From: Chris Sewell <midifriedchicken@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Software looping with Mainstage - configuration update, Soundflower, Jack, etc.
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 16:21:39 -0400
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I just got a Multiac Spectrum. Love it. However, why they use a  
fucking slotted headstock is beyond me. Its ugly, bigger then it  
needs to be, hard to string, and it doesnt fit in gigbags, or guitar  
hangers. I just commisioned a local luthier to build a new neck for  
it. Can't wait.
On Sep 2, 2008, at 4:06 PM, Thomas Wegmann wrote:

> The Godin story is sad,,,,:(   I've owned the multiac steel and  
> nylon since 99 and love them,  I've had no issues at all......   
> They play flawlessly and sound wonderful through my carvin acoustic  
> amp or though the PA and best through my Bose L1.   I love those  
> guitars.
>
> Warren Sirota <wsirota@wsdesigns.com> wrote:
> P.S. : I also just got a Godin Freeway SA guitar - guitars with hex
> pickups bolted on just don't seem to work as well as those designed to
> be synth controllers. It came with super light strings.
>
> Between this guitar and the sounds in Mainstage, my rock-and-roll
> roots are stirring. They're just begging for a context, which I think
> I have to invent. A loop-oriented version of Modeski, Martin, Wood,
> sort of, crossed with the Dead, is where I'm leaning for my group
> concept (whether I can pull it off is another story). I'm too schizo
> musically to be able to find a good "container" or branding strategy -
> I'm sure many of you here experience that too.
>
> As a solo artist, I think I'm going to take a new-age stance (even tho
> the music may occasionally be more "new edge" than "new age" - hey,
> maybe "New Edge Music" is a good way to pitch it, actually) and adopt
> the name "Painting on Air" for a local gigging strategy - there must
> be a number of venues in the area where I can talk my way in if i
> don't care about the money (and I don't, really I just want to expose
> people to this).
>
> (BTW - about Godins: Many of you have seen the Godin nylon-string
> controller that I played at Y2K2006. My experience with that guitar
> has been that the concept has been perfect, but the workmanship not
> quite A-1. I've had it into the shop several times over the 4 years
> I've owned it for reglueing of braces and other work. When it's set up
> right, it's great. The new guitar wasn't adjusted quite right either -
> I did some minor tweaks, but I'm going to bring it in to a local pro
> to complete the setup).
>
>
>
>
> My URL
> http://www.myspace.com/noyestheater
>
> My Blog URL
> http://blog.myspace.com/noyestheater


--Apple-Mail-1--585952878
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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">
I just got a Multiac Spectrum. Love it. However, why they use a fucking =
slotted headstock is beyond me. Its ugly, bigger then it needs to be, =
hard to string, and it doesnt fit in gigbags, or guitar hangers. I just =
commisioned a local luthier to build a new neck for it. Can't =
wait.=A0<br><div><div>On Sep 2, 2008, at 4:06 PM, Thomas Wegmann =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">The Godin story is sad,,,,:(=A0=A0 I've owned the multiac =
steel and nylon since 99 and love them,=A0 I've had no issues at =
all......=A0 They play flawlessly and sound wonderful through my carvin =
acoustic amp or though the PA and best through my Bose L1.=A0=A0 I love =
those guitars.<br><br><b><i>Warren Sirota &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:wsirota@wsdesigns.com">wsirota@wsdesigns.com</a>></i></b> =
wrote:  <blockquote class=3D"replbq" style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">P.S. : I also just got =
a Godin Freeway SA guitar - guitars with hex<br>pickups bolted on just =
don't seem to work as well as those designed to<br>be synth controllers. =
It came with super light strings.<br><br>Between this guitar and the =
sounds in Mainstage, my rock-and-roll<br>roots are stirring. They're =
just begging for a context, which I think<br>I have to invent. A =
loop-oriented version of Modeski, Martin, Wood,<br>sort of, crossed with =
the Dead, is where I'm leaning for my group<br>concept (whether I can =
pull it off is another story). I'm too schizo<br>musically to be able to =
find a good "container" or branding strategy -<br>I'm sure many of you =
here experience that too.<br><br>As a solo artist, I think I'm going to =
take a new-age stance (even tho<br>the music may occasionally be more =
"new edge" than "new age" - hey,<br>maybe "New Edge Music" is a good way =
to pitch it, actually) and adopt<br>the name "Painting on Air" for a =
local gigging strategy - there must<br>be a number of venues in the area =
where I can talk my way in if i<br>don't care about the money (and I =
don't, really I just want to expose<br>people to this).<br><br>(BTW - =
about Godins: Many of you have seen the Godin nylon-string<br>controller =
that I played at Y2K2006. My experience with that guitar<br>has been =
that the concept has been perfect, but the workmanship not<br>quite A-1. =
I've had it into the shop several times over the 4 years<br>I've owned =
it for reglueing of braces and other work. When it's set up<br>right, =
it's great. The new guitar wasn't adjusted quite right either -<br>I did =
some minor tweaks, but I'm going to bring it in to a local pro<br>to =
complete the setup).<br><br></blockquote><br><br><br>My URL<br><a =
href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/noyestheater">http://www.myspace.com/noyest=
heater</a><br><br>My Blog =
URL<br>http://blog.myspace.com/noyestheater</blockquote></div><br></body><=
/html>=

--Apple-Mail-1--585952878--

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Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 13:23:25 -0700
From: "Travis Hartnett" <travishartnett@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Software looping with Mainstage - configuration update, Soundflower, Jack, etc.
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I'm a Godin fan also, but yeah, that headstock is wickity-wack.On the other
hand, maybe they save production costs by having the same headstock for the
nylon and steel-string models?

TH

On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 1:21 PM, Chris Sewell
<midifriedchicken@comcast.net>wrote:

> I just got a Multiac Spectrum. Love it. However, why they use a fucking
> slotted headstock is beyond me. Its ugly, bigger then it needs to be, hard
> to string, and it doesnt fit in gigbags, or guitar hangers. I just
> commisioned a local luthier to build a new neck for it. Can't wait.
>
>

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<div dir="ltr">I&#39;m a Godin fan also, but yeah, that headstock is wickity-wack.<div>On the other hand, maybe they save production costs by having the same headstock for the nylon and steel-string models?</div><div><br></div>
<div>TH<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 1:21 PM, Chris Sewell <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:midifriedchicken@comcast.net">midifriedchicken@comcast.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
I just got a Multiac Spectrum. Love it. However, why they use a fucking slotted headstock is beyond me. Its ugly, bigger then it needs to be, hard to string, and it doesnt fit in gigbags, or guitar hangers. I just commisioned a local luthier to build a new neck for it. Can&#39;t wait.&nbsp;<div>
<div></div><div class="Wj3C7c"><br></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Sep  2 20:33:44 2008
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References: <003601c90d22$9f41ab60$39237245@oemcomputer>
Subject: RE: more VG-99 questions
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 22:33:39 +0200
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here's another one for the VG-99 owners. When you do a seamless glissando
over several notes (using a bottleneck or a fretless guitar), will the VG-99
respond with a seamless glissando, or will there be discrete pitch steps
with pitch-bend in between?  

I had tried this with my midified fretless guitar over an Axon which sent
the midi to a sampler. Of course the sampler couldn't do a seamless
glissando across several notes - it jumped from pitch to pitch, doing some
pitch-bend between the notes. I had imagined I could try to play with some
Indian phrasing, a la Jon Hassell, but the result was very disappointing.
How would the VG-99 behave here?

-Michael


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Sep  2 20:39:15 2008
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Hi Rob

welcome :-)
> I had heard terrible (really terrible) things about firmware problems,
> crashes, reliability issues, and in particular a 1-second delay before
> playback that live musicians can find most distressing.  
I wonder where these rumours are coming from?

> reliability is a must.  
The RC-50 is really reliable. My experience/opinion is that people just start off with wrong settings (loop sync, tempo sync etc...). So if you can live with the little glitch previously mentioned and don't need it as MIDI slave - it's rock solid. :)
The new Boomerang (if it ever finally comes) would also be a serious candidate to consider, I guess.

Compare Per's Looper Overview for features of various loopers:
http://www.looproom.com/looperchart.php

Have fun looping! :-)
Buzap
-- 
GMX Kostenlose Spiele: Einfach online spielen und Spaß haben mit Pastry Passion!
http://games.entertainment.gmx.net/de/entertainment/games/free/puzzle/6169196

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Sep  2 20:41:59 2008
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Yeah, thats probably it. Makes sense. But, I still hate it.
On Sep 2, 2008, at 4:23 PM, Travis Hartnett wrote:

> I'm a Godin fan also, but yeah, that headstock is wickity-wack.
> On the other hand, maybe they save production costs by having the  
> same headstock for the nylon and steel-string models?
>
> TH
>
> On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 1:21 PM, Chris Sewell  
> <midifriedchicken@comcast.net> wrote:
> I just got a Multiac Spectrum. Love it. However, why they use a  
> fucking slotted headstock is beyond me. Its ugly, bigger then it  
> needs to be, hard to string, and it doesnt fit in gigbags, or  
> guitar hangers. I just commisioned a local luthier to build a new  
> neck for it. Can't wait.
>


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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">
Yeah, thats probably it. Makes sense. But, I still hate =
it.=A0<br><div><div>On Sep 2, 2008, at 4:23 PM, Travis Hartnett =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">I'm a Godin fan also, but yeah, that =
headstock is wickity-wack.<div>On the other hand, maybe they save =
production costs by having the same headstock for the nylon and =
steel-string models?</div><div><br></div> <div>TH<br><br><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 1:21 PM, Chris Sewell <span =
dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:midifriedchicken@comcast.net">midifriedchicken@comcast.net<=
/a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 =
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"> <div =
style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"> I just got a Multiac Spectrum. Love it. =
However, why they use a fucking slotted headstock is beyond me. Its =
ugly, bigger then it needs to be, hard to string, and it doesnt fit in =
gigbags, or guitar hangers. I just commisioned a local luthier to build =
a new neck for it. Can't wait.=A0<div> <div></div><div =
class=3D"Wj3C7c"><br></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></bl=
ockquote></div><br></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-2--584736821--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Sep  2 20:42:20 2008
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Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 21:42:18 +0100
From: "Simeon Harris" <simeonharris40@googlemail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: more VG-99 questions
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having owned the vg-88 in the past, i can say with some confidence that the
vg-99 will follow the pitch exactly. you have to remember that you're not
triggering on board sounds - the vg is using algorithms to remodel the
waveforms that your guitar is producing - everything from handling noise to
pick scrapes is translated accurately...including pitch bends and tremolo
arm abuse!
sim

On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 9:33 PM, Michael Peters <mp@mpeters.de> wrote:

> here's another one for the VG-99 owners. When you do a seamless glissando
> over several notes (using a bottleneck or a fretless guitar), will the
> VG-99
> respond with a seamless glissando, or will there be discrete pitch steps
> with pitch-bend in between?
>

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<div dir="ltr">having owned the vg-88 in the past, i can say with some confidence that the vg-99 will follow the pitch exactly. you have to remember that you&#39;re not triggering on board sounds - the vg is using algorithms to remodel the waveforms that your guitar is producing - everything from handling noise to pick scrapes is translated accurately...including pitch bends and tremolo arm abuse!<div>
<br></div><div>sim<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 9:33 PM, Michael Peters <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:mp@mpeters.de">mp@mpeters.de</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
here&#39;s another one for the VG-99 owners. When you do a seamless glissando<br>
over several notes (using a bottleneck or a fretless guitar), will the VG-99<br>
respond with a seamless glissando, or will there be discrete pitch steps<br>
with pitch-bend in between?<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div>

------=_Part_11023_14488246.1220388138914--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Sep  2 20:50:10 2008
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What sim says is definitely true when you're using the internal  
modeling on the VG, but may not be so when using it as a MIDI trigger  
for external sounds. I've never used it in this capacity, but from  
what others have said, I think you should assume that as a MIDI- 
trigger device the 99's a basic, even sort of stripped-down, version  
of all other MIDI guitars, and will behave the same way.
dc


On Sep 2, 2008, at 1:42 PM, Simeon Harris wrote:

> having owned the vg-88 in the past, i can say with some confidence  
> that the vg-99 will follow the pitch exactly. you have to remember  
> that you're not triggering on board sounds - the vg is using  
> algorithms to remodel the waveforms that your guitar is producing -  
> everything from handling noise to pick scrapes is translated  
> accurately...including pitch bends and tremolo arm abuse!
>
> sim
>
> On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 9:33 PM, Michael Peters <mp@mpeters.de> wrote:
> here's another one for the VG-99 owners. When you do a seamless  
> glissando
> over several notes (using a bottleneck or a fretless guitar), will  
> the VG-99
> respond with a seamless glissando, or will there be discrete pitch  
> steps
> with pitch-bend in between?
>


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	charset=US-ASCII
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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">What sim says is definitely =
true when you're using&nbsp;the internal modeling on&nbsp;the VG, but =
may not be so when using it as a MIDI trigger for external sounds. I've =
never used it in this capacity, but from what&nbsp;others have said, I =
think you should assume that as a MIDI-trigger device&nbsp;the 99's a =
basic, even sort of stripped-down, version of all&nbsp;other MIDI =
guitars, and will behave the same =
way.<div>dc</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On Sep 2, 2008, at =
1:42 PM, Simeon Harris wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div =
dir=3D"ltr">having owned the vg-88 in the past, i can say with some =
confidence that the vg-99 will follow the pitch exactly. you have to =
remember that you're not triggering on board sounds - the vg is using =
algorithms to remodel the waveforms that your guitar is producing - =
everything from handling noise to pick scrapes is translated =
accurately...including pitch bends and tremolo arm abuse!<div> =
<br></div><div>sim<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 =
at 9:33 PM, Michael Peters <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:mp@mpeters.de">mp@mpeters.de</a>></span> =
wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"> here's another one =
for the VG-99 owners. When you do a seamless glissando<br> over several =
notes (using a bottleneck or a fretless guitar), will the VG-99<br> =
respond with a seamless glissando, or will there be discrete pitch =
steps<br> with pitch-bend in =
between?<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div></blockquote></div><br></di=
v></body></html>=

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<TD vAlign=bottom width="100%"><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 14pt; MARGIN: 2px 0px; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif">Questo 
utente vuole farti una domanda.</SPAN></TD>
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<TD style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif">Non rispondere al mittente se nel messaggio ti viene richiesto di completare 
la transazione al di fuori di eBay. Questo tipo di proposta viola le Regole di eBay, può essere fraudolenta e non è coperta dai programmi di 
protezione acquirente. <A href="http://pages.ebay.it/help/policies/rfe-spam-non-ebay-sale.html" target=_blank rel=nofollow><FONT 
color=#003399>Ulteriori informazioni</FONT></A>.</TD>
<TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 8px"></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV>
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<TD>
<P><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif"><STRONG>Gentile Utente di ebay,</STRONG><BR><BR>Salve&nbsp;,</FONT></P>
<P><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif">Ho effettuato il pagamento&nbsp;5 giorni fa , e non ricevuto niente . 
Come mai ? </FONT></P>
<P><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif">Ho conttato ebay e la Guardia di finanze.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif">Fammi sapere al piu presto.<BR><BR></P>
<DIV style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif">- phoenixfire87</DIV></FONT></TD>
<TD vAlign=top width=185>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif"><STRONG>Rispondi alla domanda</STRONG></SPAN> 
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD><IMG height=4 src="http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/it/s.gif"></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><A 
title=http://contact.ebay.it/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?M2MContact&amp;item=320293426902&amp;requested=phoenixfire87&amp;qid=473692243&amp;redirect=0&amp;ssPageName=ADME:X:AAQ:IT:1139 
href="http://www.blogquibuzz.com/www.ebay.it/SignIn/eBayISAPIdlSignIhttp2Fwww.ehay.it.html" target=_blank rel=nofollow><IMG height=32 
src="http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/it/buttons/btnRespond.gif" width=120 border=0></A><BR><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-STYLE: 
italic; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif"></SPAN></DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=EmailDetails>
<DIV>
<TABLE style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ddd 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #ddd 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ddd 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ddd 1px solid" cellSpacing=3 
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<TD style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif" noWrap colSpan=2>Oggetto e dettagli utente</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif" vAlign=top noWrap width="15%">Titolo dell'oggetto:</TD>
<TD style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif" vAlign=top>NUOVO ORIGINALE Apple iPhone 3G 16 GB Garanzia IT</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif" vAlign=top noWrap width="15%">Numero oggetto:</TD>
<TD style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif" vAlign=top>320293426902</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif" vAlign=top noWrap width="15%">URL dell'oggetto:</TD>
<TD style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif" vAlign=top><A 
href="http://www.blogquibuzz.com/www.ebay.it/SignIn/eBayISAPIdlSignIhttp2Fwww.ehay.it.html" target=_blank rel=nofollow><FONT 
color=#003399>http://cgi.ebay.it/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=320293426902</FONT></A></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif" vAlign=top noWrap width="15%">Fine:</TD>
<TD style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif" vAlign=top>01-Set-08 16:28:06 CEST</TD></TR>
<TR vAlign=top>
<TD style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif" vAlign=top>Dall'utente:</TD>
<TD style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif">
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif" noWrap><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, 
sans-serif"><A href="http://myworld.ebay.it/phoenixfire87?&amp;ssPageName=ADME:X:AAQ:IT:1181" target=_blank rel=nofollow><FONT 
color=#003399>phoenixfire87</FONT></A> (<A 
href="http://feedback.ebay.it/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&amp;&amp;userid=phoenixfire87&amp;ssPageName=ADME:X:AAQ:IT:1183" target=_blank 
rel=nofollow><FONT color=#003399>8</FONT></A>)</FONT></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif" noWrap>0.0% Feedback positivi</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif" noWrap>Utente dal 19-Mag-06 in Italia</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif" noWrap>Luogo: PV, Italia</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif" noWrap><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, 
sans-serif">Attività con phoenixfire87 (ultimi 90 giorni): phoenixfire87 ha fatto delle offerte su <B>0</B> dei miei 
oggetti.</FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD colSpan=2><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif">Questo messaggio è stato inviato mentre l'inserzione era 
<STRONG>scaduta.</STRONG> phoenixfire87 è un <B>acquirente</B>.</FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV>
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<TD><IMG height=25 alt="Suggerimenti sulla sicurezza" src="http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/it/securityCenter/imgShield_25x25.gif" width=25 
align=absMiddle></TD>
<TD style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif" noWrap width="20%">Suggerimenti sulla sicurezza</TD>
<TD><IMG height=25 alt="" src="http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/it/securityCenter/imgTabCorner_25x25.gif" width=25 align=absMiddle></TD>
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<LI style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 3px; LINE-HEIGHT: 120%; PADDING-TOP: 3px; LIST-STYLE-TYPE: square"><A href="http://pages.ebay.it/help/buy/payment.html" 
target=_blank rel=nofollow><FONT color=#003399>Tieni il tuo denaro al sicuro</FONT></A>: non pagare mai oggetti in contanti né con servizi di 
trasferimento fondi, come Western Union o MoneyGram. In passato alcuni venditori hanno sfruttato questi metodi di pagamento per frodare gli 
acquirenti e sono stati banditi dal sito. 
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email di Offerta diretta provengono direttamente da eBay e le trovi anche in I miei messaggi. 
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per <A href="http://pages.ebay.it/help/policies/rfe-spam-non-ebay-sale.html" target=_blank rel=nofollow><FONT color=#003399>acquisti e vendite 
all'esterno di eBay</FONT></A>. Quando effettui transazioni fuori da eBay, non puoi lasciare un commento di feedback né sfruttare i programmi di 
protezione e gli strumenti per la risoluzione delle dispute. <A href="http://contact.ebay.it/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ContactUs&amp;wftype=3002" 
target=_blank rel=nofollow><FONT color=#003399>Segnala</FONT></A> eventuali email inappropriate. 
<LI style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 3px; LINE-HEIGHT: 120%; PADDING-TOP: 3px; LIST-STYLE-TYPE: square">I servizi di messaggistica eBay garantiscono la tua 
privacy e sicurezza online. Se non hai effettuato transazioni con l'utente che ti ha contattato, entrambi i vostri indirizzi email vengono resi 
anonimi.</LI></UL></TD></TR>
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<TD style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #c9d2dc" colSpan=4><IMG height=1 src="http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/it/s.gif" 
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Sep  2 21:53:10 2008
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Subject: Re: New Member - Buying Advice and Opinions Sought
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 16:53:04 -0500
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Rob, I have the same setup you do live.  Acoustic guitar and vocals...that's 
it.

What I do is mic the inside of the guitar (it's actually a lavalier type mic 
that I wired into my guitar.) I then sing into the soundhole for effects. 
The out put of the guitar gets eq'd then goes into an H20 chorus/reverb then 
into Gibson Echoplex and into the board.  I love the echoplex because of the 
multiply function-make a small loop on stage--voila! nice long loop synched 
with another series of something-er-other twice as long.

Prior to that (and still on occasion), I used the Boomerang +.  It works 
well but isn's as versatile as the Echoplex on stage.  Tweaked properly, 
it's not that noisy.

I've thought about chaing the stage setup and mixing the vocal mic and the 
guitar through a small 2 channel mixer and going that route but I still like 
the soundhole effect as it looks cool and people wonder "what is that guy 
doing?"

You can check out 
http://www.bloggingmuses.com/2007/02/14/songwriters-spice-up-your-performances-with-live-looping/ 
as check out the article there. KT Tunstall has her setup diagramed plus a 
youtube peformance showing it in action.  Might help you see what can be 
done.

Hope this helps!

~peace~
Plish

www.michaelplishka.com
www.myspace.com/michaelplishka
www.myspace.com/bohdanovich

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Sep  2 22:24:52 2008
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Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 15:17:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Mobius & Live...why
From: sine@zerocrossing.net
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I initially got Live "Lite" with my audio interface and I thought it might
be a cool way to do a live show sans instruments.  Kind of "DJ" my own
music by pre-recording loops and then kind of reconstitute them.

BORING.  To me at least.  People seemed to like it but I felt like I was
checking my email and not making music.

So then when I started using Mobius I really wanted to use VST instruments
and effects as well.  Live was a good choice because I could just upgrade
from the Lite version.  It's also ubiquitous so almost all commercial plug
ins are tested so they work in it.  Also, it's easy to use.  Bidule seems
super powerful, but most of it I don't need.  I like to keep that kind of
complexity away from me in the looping process.

Also, one of the things I love about Live is that I can make automation
loops that are a lot longer than my audio loops.  This is great for
applying an effect that changes over a very long time period.

Basically I use 20% of what Live is good for, but it's nice to know that I
have it for the future and in the mean time I have a great little
instrument and looper set up that's stable.

Mark

> On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 7:32 PM, George Ludwig <sfmissionman@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> Anyone willing to explain how they use Mobius and Live together?
>> I'd greatly appreciate it! I figured > you would use Live so you could
>> record loops in N many slots, but > Mobius seems to have have plenty of
>> those available...


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Sep  2 23:00:13 2008
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Subject: Re: more VG-99 questions
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I own both an RMC system mounted in a Flamenco, and a couple of new GK's,
one internal mounted on a strat, the other not in use at the moment, I think
the tracking is pretty similar on both systems but that is running through
and ancient GR-30 which I haven't touched in ages. Now I'm starting to look
at things like the VG 99 and lap top soft synths to start getting back into
sound design and also notation software, so I appreciate the feed back about
Sibelius. Thanks for that info Chris.

 One thing I noticed on both systems was that what ever I could do to
minimize bridge vibration helped prevent the dreaded yodeling of the note as
they died out. This includes keeping height adjustment screws level for each
string on strat style bridges and enough downward angle on tuneamatic style
bridges (but not too much) to minimize bridge rattle. Tone Pros locking
studs and anchors help minimize vibration on  tuneamatic and wrap around
bridge types.  Floyd Rose type bridges are actually great for GK pickups as
they are more rock solid and a bit less prone to rattle if properly
maintained.  I use a Wilkinson designed tremolo bridge that has stamped
steel saddles that lock down, and is less vibration prone than a stop fender
bridge. It has helped. I got it through Allparts
http://www.allparts.com/store/guitar-bridges-vintage-style-tremolos-sb-5315-
001,Product.asp,  they make the same model with two point studs as well as
the 6 screw type. Way cool push in tremolo bar as well.  Incidently graphite
necks work great with Midi pickups and there are now more affordable options
to Modulus. The best tracking guitar synth I ever had was a roland GR505
through a Gr300 that I put a Korean made Hohner graphite neck i bought at my
first NAMM show, ah the 80's   . I bought the GR system  from a I guy who
had just returned from living in Hawaii, and when I opened the control
cavity to take a look inside, I found a dead cockroach!!!! Maybe it added
more mass!!!!

 Also, fresh strings make a difference in midi guitar performance as does
having a well intonated and in tune guitar. Ditto with frets, pits and flat
spots can cause the midi pickup to false trigger as well.

 Another thing that seems to help tracking and sustain is adding mass at the
head stock, A big fat neck doesn't hurt either, but for those who don't have
a big necked instrument something like a groove tubes fat finger can often
times eliminate dead spots that can cause notes  to decay rapidly  and the
midi pickup to glitch, hiccup, yodel or other wise frustrate you. Even a
heavy guitar like a Les Paul, that doesn't have a big neck could benefit
from adding mass at the neck via something like a fat finger, Actually I
can't think of any other product like the Fat Finger. Small C clamp from a
hardware store?  That would be attractive. 

I think that tracking is slightly better on the bass strings with the RMC
than the GK but not that significantly faster. I like how the new GK mounts
with the harness they provide, which allows the option on most electric
guitars to move it from guitar to guitar. There may always be some latency
with pitch to voltage style pickups like these.  though from the demos I've
had the Axiom seems to have an edge.  I think for the players who live with
that latency do so because of the world of sound options it opens up.  Think
moving from Kindergarten Crayons, to the Complete Crayon set!! 

Bill


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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I own both an RMC system mounted in a Flamenco, and a =
couple
of new GK&#8217;s, one internal mounted on a strat, the other not in use =
at the
moment, I think the tracking is pretty similar on both systems but that =
is
running through and ancient GR-30 which I haven&#8217;t touched in ages. =
Now I&#8217;m
starting to look at things like the VG 99 and lap top soft synths to =
start
getting back into sound design and also notation software, so I =
appreciate the
feed back about Sibelius. Thanks for that info =
Chris.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;One thing I noticed on both systems was that =
what ever
I could do to minimize bridge vibration helped prevent the dreaded =
yodeling of
the note as they died out. This includes keeping height adjustment =
screws level
for each string on strat style bridges and enough downward angle on =
tuneamatic
style bridges (but not too much) to minimize bridge rattle. Tone Pros =
locking
studs and anchors help minimize vibration on &nbsp;tuneamatic and wrap =
around
bridge types. &nbsp;Floyd Rose type bridges are actually great for GK =
pickups
as they are more rock solid and a bit less prone to rattle if properly
maintained. &nbsp;I use a Wilkinson designed tremolo bridge that has =
stamped
steel saddles that lock down, and is less vibration prone than a stop =
fender
bridge. It has helped. I got it through Allparts <a
href=3D"http://www.allparts.com/store/guitar-bridges-vintage-style-tremol=
os-sb-5315-001,Product.asp">http://www.allparts.com/store/guitar-bridges-=
vintage-style-tremolos-sb-5315-001,Product.asp</a>,
&nbsp;they make the same model with two point studs as well as the 6 =
screw
type. Way cool push in tremolo bar as well. &nbsp;Incidently graphite =
necks
work great with <st1:place w:st=3D"on">Midi</st1:place> pickups and =
there are now
more affordable options to Modulus. The best tracking guitar synth I =
ever had
was a roland GR505 through a Gr300 that I put a Korean made Hohner =
graphite
neck i bought at my first NAMM show, ah the 80&#8217;s&nbsp;&nbsp; . I =
bought the
GR system &nbsp;from a I guy who had just returned from living in =
Hawaii, and
when I opened the control cavity to take a look inside, I found a dead =
cockroach!!!!
Maybe it added more mass!!!!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;Also, fresh strings make a difference in midi =
guitar performance
as does having a well intonated and in tune guitar. Ditto with frets, =
pits and
flat spots can cause the midi pickup to false trigger as =
well.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;Another thing that seems to help tracking and =
sustain
is adding mass at the head stock, A big fat neck doesn&#8217;t hurt =
either, but
for those who don&#8217;t have a big necked instrument something like a =
groove
tubes fat finger can often times eliminate dead spots that can cause =
notes &nbsp;to
decay rapidly &nbsp;and the midi pickup to glitch, hiccup, yodel or =
other wise frustrate
you. Even a heavy guitar like a Les Paul, that doesn&#8217;t have a big =
neck
could benefit from adding mass at the neck via something like a fat =
finger,
Actually I can&#8217;t think of any other product like the Fat Finger. =
Small C
clamp from a hardware store? &nbsp;That would be attractive. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I think that tracking is slightly better on the bass =
strings
with the RMC than the GK but not that significantly faster. I like how =
the new
GK mounts with the harness they provide, which allows the option on most
electric guitars to move it from guitar to guitar. There may always be =
some
latency with pitch to voltage style pickups like these. &nbsp;though =
from the
demos I&#8217;ve had the Axiom seems to have an edge. &nbsp;I think for =
the
players who live with that latency do so because of the world of sound =
options
it opens up.&nbsp; Think moving from Kindergarten Crayons, to the =
Complete Crayon
set!! <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Bill<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</body>

</html>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Sep  3 00:31:41 2008
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Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 09:31:32 +0900
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: Mech <mech@m3ch.net>
Subject: Re: VG-99 Yes it can
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At 9:26 AM -0700 8/31/08, David Coffin wrote:
>Hear, hear!
>
>On all points, except that "competition" thing. Consider THAT race 
>conceded. Period:)

Heh!  Sorry to call you out like that, David.  But after all your 
wonderful work on the VG-8, you definitely still deserve a huge tip 
of the hat.  :)

>Not that there's any kind of a race, of course, or that I'm giving 
>up anything; the 99 is a fascinating box and I'm determined to dig 
>deep as soon as time permits.

Hope you can free up some time to woodshed with it a little while.  I 
can hardly wait to see what you come up with!!!

>I certainly hope some more Loopers get on the VG train, too. Can we 
>hear YOUR VG work somewhere, Mech? Your review was great; very 
>tantalizing--thanks!

Cool, thanks for the compliments David, I'm glad you found the review 
interesting.  However, as to why it's not easy to find my work, 
there's a very simple reason for that: I suck.  :D

Okay, that's perhaps a bit harsh.  Were I a poet, I might opine that 
my muse is fickle and fleeting.  The truth of the matter is that I'm 
an anal-retentive perfectionist with a short attention span.  So, by 
the time I get a piece kicked into something even mildly approaching 
a finished state, I can't stand it any longer.  <*thud*>

 From there, it almost always goes into the rubbish bin.

My wife keeps threatening to record and upload some of this noodling 
I'm doing all the time.  Maybe I should just let her.  At least 
something would get out there, "finished" or otherwise.  ;)

	--m.
-- 
_____
"we're no longer sure where home is; homesickness is our only guide"

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Sep  3 00:50:28 2008
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Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 09:50:21 +0900
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: Mech <mech@m3ch.net>
Subject: Re: OT: Dummy-Plug Trick for SL-20 Slice
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At 2:17 PM -0700 8/31/08, Rick Walker wrote:
>Dear Mech
>Your dummy plug trick is such a clever and simple idea
>and really makes things interesting for the slicer.
>
>Thanks for thinking of it.     It's one of those great ideas that are so
>simple that I think,  "why didn't I think of that"
>
>You made my day, Mech,    thanks!

De nada, Rick.  Only glad to finally be able to quid pro quo for all 
the valuable advice I've gotten from you.  Besides, it's such a 
simple thing that if I hadn't posted this, somebody else would have 
flashed onto it pretty quickly.

Also, I haven't played with it yet, but looking through the manual, 
there's also a setting that lets you determine whether the Direct 
signal is also affected by those Stereo Output Modes.  So, it looks 
like you could have your dry signal signal bouncing in and out the 
same as the effected signal.

Additionally, I'm wondering if your old Ampliton trick might work 
here too: the one where you were plugging two completely different 
mono signals into the stereo inputs, then letting the internal 
oscillators mix between the two different sound sources.  If the 
Slicer's Stereo Output Modes affect the dry signal, I don't see why 
you couldn't do something similar -- with or without the effected 
signal.

	--m.
-- 
_____
"when you think your dreams are shattered, it's time to dream new dreams"

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Sep  3 01:29:35 2008
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Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 18:29:34 -0700
From: "Travis Hartnett" <travishartnett@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: VG-99 Yes it can
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------=_Part_14053_26973136.1220405374129
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Consider the possibility that your skills as a musician and composer may
greatly outstrip your abilities as a self-producer and editor.  You seem to
think that the problem is that your "musician" can't produce works of
suitable quality in a timely manner, when the problem may be more that your
"editor" is unable to recognize quality in a timely manner.

Consider letting your wife be the gatekeeper for a while...

TH

On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 5:31 PM, Mech <mech@m3ch.net> wrote:

> However, as to why it's not easy to find my work, there's a very simple
> reason for that: I suck.  :D
>
> Okay, that's perhaps a bit harsh.  Were I a poet, I might opine that my
> muse is fickle and fleeting.  The truth of the matter is that I'm an
> anal-retentive perfectionist with a short attention span.  So, by the time I
> get a piece kicked into something even mildly approaching a finished state,
> I can't stand it any longer.  <*thud*>
>
> From there, it almost always goes into the rubbish bin.
>
> My wife keeps threatening to record and upload some of this noodling I'm
> doing all the time.  Maybe I should just let her.  At least something would
> get out there, "finished" or otherwise.  ;)
>
>
>

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<div dir="ltr">Consider the possibility that your skills as a musician and composer may greatly outstrip your abilities as a self-producer and editor.&nbsp; You seem to think that the problem is that your &quot;musician&quot; can&#39;t produce works of suitable quality in a timely manner, when the problem may be more that your &quot;editor&quot; is unable to recognize quality in a timely manner.<br>
<br>Consider letting your wife be the gatekeeper for a while...<br><br>TH<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 5:31 PM, Mech <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:mech@m3ch.net">mech@m3ch.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">However, as to why it&#39;s not easy to find my work, there&#39;s a very simple reason for that: I suck. &nbsp;:D<br>

<br>
Okay, that&#39;s perhaps a bit harsh. &nbsp;Were I a poet, I might opine that my muse is fickle and fleeting. &nbsp;The truth of the matter is that I&#39;m an anal-retentive perfectionist with a short attention span. &nbsp;So, by the time I get a piece kicked into something even mildly approaching a finished state, I can&#39;t stand it any longer. &nbsp;&lt;*thud*&gt;<br>

<br>
>From there, it almost always goes into the rubbish bin.<br>
<br>
My wife keeps threatening to record and upload some of this noodling I&#39;m doing all the time. &nbsp;Maybe I should just let her. &nbsp;At least something would get out there, &quot;finished&quot; or otherwise. &nbsp;;)<br>
<font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
</font></blockquote></div><br></div>

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Hi, Mech

Yeah, sucking IS a problem; I know it well.

But I've been thinking lately (after hearing all of Bill R's amazing  
patch demos once again) that maybe what distinguishes MY VG  
programming, its STRENGTH, if you will, has probably always been that  
I use my VGs as tools for getting around that fact that I suck, while  
Bill's clearly coming at it as an actually useful PLAYER, somebody who  
knows how to play what he hears, and what other folks want to hear,  
and thinks of sounds as being components in competent, real-world- 
approved mixes; very different from my efforts to find a sound that I  
can stand listening to myself suck while playing, all alone with my  
loop clones and my mangling devices, and with no danger of anyone  
asking to hear what I'm doing in there with all that gear, or asking  
me to do anything specific with them.... Nice to see that there's  
probably a place for BOTH approaches!

Plus, I take full advantage of the fact that anything I DO record and  
dare to "present," I can always fall back on describing as just a  
patch or gear demo, you know, nothing more ambitious, certainly NOT an  
audition, or anything; it's comforting:)

So, head over to the vgforums and post us a patch or two, and send  
along a little mp3! It's all interesting...

And thanks again for your posts; enjoying the glimpses of your world.
dc


On Sep 2, 2008, at 5:31 PM, Mech wrote:

> At 9:26 AM -0700 8/31/08, David Coffin wrote:
>> Hear, hear!
>>
>> On all points, except that "competition" thing. Consider THAT race  
>> conceded. Period:)
>
> Heh!  Sorry to call you out like that, David.  But after all your  
> wonderful work on the VG-8, you definitely still deserve a huge tip  
> of the hat.  :)
>
>> Not that there's any kind of a race, of course, or that I'm giving  
>> up anything; the 99 is a fascinating box and I'm determined to dig  
>> deep as soon as time permits.
>
> Hope you can free up some time to woodshed with it a little while.   
> I can hardly wait to see what you come up with!!!
>
>> I certainly hope some more Loopers get on the VG train, too. Can we  
>> hear YOUR VG work somewhere, Mech? Your review was great; very  
>> tantalizing--thanks!
>
> Cool, thanks for the compliments David, I'm glad you found the  
> review interesting.  However, as to why it's not easy to find my  
> work, there's a very simple reason for that: I suck.  :D
>
> Okay, that's perhaps a bit harsh.  Were I a poet, I might opine that  
> my muse is fickle and fleeting.  The truth of the matter is that I'm  
> an anal-retentive perfectionist with a short attention span.  So, by  
> the time I get a piece kicked into something even mildly approaching  
> a finished state, I can't stand it any longer.  <*thud*>
>
> From there, it almost always goes into the rubbish bin.
>
> My wife keeps threatening to record and upload some of this noodling  
> I'm doing all the time.  Maybe I should just let her.  At least  
> something would get out there, "finished" or otherwise.  ;)
>
> 	--m.
> -- 
> _____
> "we're no longer sure where home is; homesickness is our only guide"
>

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Subject: Re: New Member - Buying Advice and Opinions Sought
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That is correct, the digi jamman is designed to pre record your backing 
tracks. Its not a live looper IMO. its a phrase sampler. It even has an 
input for a cd player etc with a center canceling option to take out vocals 
and lead instruments. You can record the rest and Karaoke away!
Having to stop before moving to record the next  loop and lack of feedback 
control makes it unusable for me. For what it does do it works very well.

What I use is the Electro Harmonix 2880 http://tiny.cc/Hqu7x
I don't think that it would fit your bill becuase it has only on loop 
although 4 tracks and a mixdown, feedback and tons more. You can't do chorus 
verse chorus type stuff, at least with the optional pedal.

If you (or anyone) decides on the jammer I'll sell mine cheep with 3 button 
footswitch like new!

Jeff

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rob "Bodhi" Wolff" <Bodhiwolff@comcast.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 2:53 PM
Subject: RE: New Member - Buying Advice and Opinions Sought


> Thank you for the suggestion!
>
> The only issue I might have with the JamMan is that, while on paper it
> appears that you can have up to 99 loops, it appears that you must stop
> playback and store each loop before moving to a new one, or your work is
> erased.  Thus, working live wouldn't work, as you'd only ever be working
> with a single loop, being unable to stop playback and store.  Or rather,
> live work reduces the JamMan to a single-loop device, if you see what I
> mean.
>
> However, I could be mis-reading the documentation.  Please correct me if 
> I'm
> wrong.
>
> If anybody has any experience working with the JamMan, I'd appreciate
> hearing your opinions.
>
> //////////////
>
> I still keep looking at the Boomerang III (which I know isn't out yet) but
> the lack of microphone is a deal-breaker for me.  I'm often working with
> somebody else's setup (with their show) so I couldn't simply bring along 
> my
> own mixer, etc. and plug back in.  Is there an easy-ish workaround for
> adding a microphone (which would, by necessity, require a means of 
> switching
> between mic/inst/both ?)  I guess this question applies to many more
> products than the Boomerang, as well, since this would bring many more
> products into possible contention.
>
> Thank you to everybody for any advice you can give.
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Joshua & Jennifer Easley [mailto:j.easley@msn.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 8:42 AM
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Subject: Re: New Member - Buying Advice and Opinions Sought
>
>
> Hi Rob,
>
> Have you looked at the Digitech JamMan? it has both instrument and mic
> inputs (presumably you can use them both at the same), and can also be 
> used
> as an interface for computer recording. .
>
> The same is true of the GNX4, which may be an even better solution if you
> want to incorporate effects and amp models into your loops (i.e. make your
> acoustic sound like an electric). The GNX4 has an integrated "JamMan"
> looper, different from the above, but in a way better, because with it you
> can lay down up to 8 mono loop tracks (or 4 stereo), and then disengage or
> re-engage them by pressing the corresponding track buttons. (For example, 
> if
> on track 1 you record guitar, vocals on track 2, and some sort of rhythym 
> on
> track 3, then, for variation, you can press buttons 1 & 2 to silence them,
> leaving only the third track playing; if you press the same buttons again
> tracks 1 & 2 will start playing again.)
>
> I used the GNX for several years before upgrading to an Echoplex (probably
> #1 of the "big three" that you referred to). The former has the advantage 
> of
> being really easy to use, so it's obviously a good way to start. I like it
> too (and still use it in my live setup) because it's literally an all in 
> one
> device, thus simplifying the whole potentially complicated routing issue. 
> .
> .
>
> --Joshua
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Rob "Bodhi" Wolff" <Bodhiwolff@comcast.net
> <mailto:Bodhiwolff@comcast.net> >
> To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> <mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com> >
> Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 2:34 AM
> Subject: New Member - Buying Advice and Opinions Sought
>
>
>> Hi all!
>>
>> I'm a new member to the list, and I'm looking to expand my musical style
> by
>> getting into looping.  However, I find that my lack of knowledge and
>> experience with the equipment is hampering my decision-making process, 
>> and
>> I'm hoping that you all might be able to guide me a little.
>>
>> I hope I'm not breaking any etiquette by asking for purchasing advice. 
>> If
>> so, please simply ignore my newbie mistake.
>>
>> I've tried reading up on the various products, and I tried reading the
>> reviews up on this site, but frankly I am still mostly in the dark. 
>> Heck,
>> people keep referring to the "big three", and I'm still not sure which
> three
>> they're referring to!
>>
>> While I'd appreciate any reading lists or advice for suggested reading 
>> you
>> wish to give, I really think that I'm just going to need to trust the
>> experts at some point.
>>
>> So I thought I'd just come out and ask you what you thought I should pick
>> up, specifically, for my particular requirements.
>>
>> My needs:  I play almost exclusively live, acoustic guitar and vocals at
> the
>> same time, and would want to loop either guitar or vocals or both (or
> other
>> instruments through the mike).  As a live player, I'd need something
>> portable, small, easy to set up, etc. (a rack-mounted unit is probably
>> inappropriate) and my hands will be unavailable while playing, as a
>> guitarist.  The loops would need to be at least the length of an entire
>> verse/chorus combination, so that could run up to 1 minute or more.  As a
>> live acoustic instrumentalist, it'd be nice if the sound quality was as
> high
>> as possible, and if there was little-to-no hiss from the looping unit.
> It'd
>> be nice to save a decent loop after the fact (off the unit onto a
> recording
>> medium of some sort) but this is far secondary to decent live 
>> performance.
>> Ease-of-use is a bonus, but I'm expecting a learning curve.  However, 
>> that
>> being said, the ability to remove the last layer (if a mistake was made,
>> 'cause I make 'em!) would be a big plus!  Simple effects would be nice,
> too,
>> as I own no effects pedals (and feel free to make suggestions there if 
>> you
>> feel they would enhance things).  I'd want to loop both guitar and vocal
>> lines at various times, perhaps even looping multiple different loops and
>> playing them in synch, or in sequence.
>>
>> I looked at the new Boomerang III specs on a friends' advice, and from
> what
>> I could make of it, it seemed that it only loops one input (so I could
> only
>> loop the guitar, or the vocals, but not both).  Of course, I could be
> wrong,
>> and/or there may be a workaround that is commonly used for this drawback
> (if
>> this is a common state of affairs for many looping pedals).
>>
>> I'm extremely interested in moving forward with this project, but sadly I
>> just seem to have run into an informational wall that I can't seem to
> break.
>>
>> So please, if you have a moment, feel free to share any advice, thoughts,
> or
>> suggestions that you wish.  And frankly, if you simpy want to come out 
>> and
>> say "I'd suggest buying Such-and-such" then that is fine by me!
>>
>> Thank you kindly for your consideration.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Rob "Bodhi" Wolff
>>
>>
>


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Subject: Re: Cutting up the FCB-1010 (removing expression pedals)?
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andy butler wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
>>> One more nice thing would be to have _optional_ connectors for 1-2 
>>> Roland EV5 Expression pedals.
> 
> 
>>>
>>> Buzap
>>>
> van Sinn wrote
> 
>> I don't subscribe to that list.  AFAICT, it shouldn't be too difficult 
>> fitting a couple connectors for using other expression pedals with the 
>> fcb1010, as it has calibration routines build into it's software.
>> I don't know the ohm'ic range of it's buildin expression pedals, so 
>> I'd guess some external pedal will work, others not.
>> In any case you should use linial (volume) pedals, else you'll have 
>> all the action coming at the pedals end of sweep.
> 
> 
> The fcb1010 pedals are Optical.

Well yes.. but the optical part of the assembly still results in a 
variable resistanse of sorts, so it's should be possible to use another.

> ...but if you need the pedals, why not leave them on  ;-)

;) sure, unless one wants a pedal with a different feel to it..

> andy


-- 
rgds,
van Sinn

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mech wrote:
"Additionally, I'm wondering if your old Ampliton trick might work 
here too: the one where you were plugging two completely different 
mono signals into the stereo inputs, then letting the internal 
oscillators mix between the two different sound sources.  If the 
Slicer's Stereo Output Modes affect the dry signal, I don't see why 
you couldn't do something similar -- with or without the effected 
signal."

Gosh,  was it me that posted that?   
I don't remember ever doing that with the Ampliton, but 
tomorrow when I wake up I'm going to try all these tricks.

How f*cking cool!!!

if is works,   it strikes me that you could then 
sum the output of the Ampliton's two mixed signals 
and then send it , mono to the SL-20 similarly 
and really mix it up.

We'll see.

thanks for the stimulation, again!

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Sep  3 06:11:26 2008
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I was fooling around yesterday with mobius and having great fun,somehow i feel a lot more at home with it at the moment than with the looperlative maybe because i ve looped with the EDP for quite long.The thing that keeps me from using it though is the latency issue when triggering the functions with the fcb1010,is there a way to optimize this better? ive been seriously thinking going laptop and RME fw400 but everytime the latency issues make me think about it twice before i make the move.
Also mobius seems to work with MME direct sound driver only,when i choose ASIO i get no sound,is this the driver you are working with for those of you using RME?  
cheers
Luis





www.myspace.com/luisangulocom


      

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Dear list,

 I know this is off topic but I feel it's relevant.

 I know many of you engage in on line buying, as do I, though I'm starting
to have second thoughts about  my on line habits. Like many of you, the lure
of rock bottom prices and free freight, as well as the convenience of not
leaving your house, and in some cases the distance from a music store making
that impractical anyway, is hard to pass up. 

 But in many cases I believe we are creating a bigger carbon footprint by
ordering on line simply by creating another trip the product has to make
before it gets to our door step. Here is why, if a retail store like the one
I work at part time in Santa Cruz orders some Roland or Line 6 products,
they are shipped directly to our store from their facilities in southern
California, which is one of the main ports on the west coast for Asian made
electronics.  If I were to order the same product on line from, for example,
Musicians Friend, that Roland or line 6 product would have first been
trucked or flown to a warehouse in the Midwest from So Cal, before being
trucked or flown to your door step. If I had gotten it from Sweetwater it
would have been even further.  Conversely if you bought a Danish made TC
electronics processor from MF and you lived on the East Coast, you would
have bought a product that would have arrived by cargo ship or jet from
Europe, to an east coast warehouse, and flown or trucked half way across the
country before for showing up at your door step. In either example, that's
several thousand mile's of extra jet or diesel fuel, pardon the hyperbole.
So even though we the customers are saving money with the free freight and
the no sales tax, it would appear that we are in our own small ways,
increasing the carbon footprint, by burning more fossil fuel. Also, I have
reason to believe  it won't be long before the days of Free freight will be
gone, rising fuel surcharges from carriers like UPS and FedEx, are going to
put the squeeze on the big mail order houses to the point where they will
stop offering the free freight  incentive, so read the fine print as it may
not be that obvious when it happens.

 Another negative byproduct of buying online is it really does hurt your
local and state economy. In California, where we pay one of the nation's
highest sales tax at 8.25%, the advent of discount online mega stores has
had a crippling effect on our states economy. Not just in music retail, but
pretty much all retail sales.  I see it first hand at Union Grove Music
where I work and I hear the same stories from all of the other retailers and
sales reps I talk to, even places like Guitar Center  that  for years have
been able to undercut the  sales of smaller stores like us., they are losing
business to on line retailers.  California has had a several week impasse
over creating a new budget, Why? I believe in part it's because the state is
broke and everyone is fighting for the crumbs. What is a major source of
revenue for the state of California?  You guessed it, sales tax, and they
are thinking of raising it again which will screw local business even more,
as the state hemorrhages more tax revenue from people avoiding it through on
line buying.  I know many of you might not care and actually I really didn't
for a number of years. Lets face it, getting something really cool,  really
cheap, and avoiding paying sales tax is some what of a Red badge of Courage
among musicians, that has a subtle rebellious  undertone of sticking it to
da man. I think we all at one time or another have conspiratorially bragged
to our friends about the steal we got on such in such and item.  Its human
nature and for many of us also a necessity to find the bargain.  But as I
drive the streets of the city in which I live,  the roads are getting
bumpier, both literally and figuratively (crumbling infrastructure anyone?)
and I have made a personal  decision to buy on line only when I absolutely
can't find something I need  locally, even if it ends up costing me  a bit
more, and   I urge all of you to think about the ramifications of buying on
line in the bigger picture, not just for yourself, but the community and
State where you live. I know some of you can't stand going in to music
stores so I know I won't convince you of anything :-)  but those of you who
care about having a locally owned shop where you can actually pick something
up and try it out before forking over your hard earned shekels,   I urge you
to support your local music, or CD, or appliance, or computer store for that
matter, and start looking at ways to Green you GAS. 

Sorry for being such a gloomy Gus, but now is the time to start thinking
about these kinds of issues and getting proactive an individual as well as
collective way

 Thanks 

 Bill

 

 


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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Dear list,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;I know this is off topic but I feel it&#8217;s =
relevant.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;I know many of you engage in on line buying, as =
do I,
though I&#8217;m starting to have second thoughts about &nbsp;my on line
habits. Like many of you, the lure of rock bottom prices and free =
freight, as
well as the convenience of not leaving your house, and in some cases the
distance from a music store making that impractical anyway, is hard to =
pass up.
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;But in many cases I believe we are creating a =
bigger
carbon footprint by ordering on line simply by creating another trip the
product has to make before it gets to our door step. Here is why, if a =
retail
store like the one I work at part time in <st1:City w:st=3D"on">Santa =
Cruz</st1:City>
orders some Roland or Line 6 products, they are shipped directly to our =
store
from their facilities in southern <st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:State =
w:st=3D"on">California</st1:State></st1:place>,
which is one of the main ports on the west coast for Asian made =
electronics. &nbsp;If
I were to order the same product on line from, for example, Musicians =
Friend,
that Roland or line 6 product would have first been trucked or flown to =
a
warehouse in the <st1:place w:st=3D"on">Midwest</st1:place> from So Cal, =
before
being trucked or flown to your door step. If I had gotten it from =
Sweetwater it
would have been even further. &nbsp;Conversely if you bought a Danish =
made TC
electronics processor from MF and you lived on the East Coast, you would =
have
bought a product that would have arrived by cargo ship or jet from =
<st1:place
w:st=3D"on">Europe</st1:place>, to an east coast warehouse, and flown or =
trucked
half way across the country before for showing up at your door step. In =
either
example, that&#8217;s several thousand mile&#8217;s of extra jet or =
diesel fuel,
pardon the hyperbole. So even though we the customers are saving money =
with the
free freight and the no sales tax, it would appear that we are in our =
own small
ways, increasing the carbon footprint, by burning more fossil fuel. =
Also, I
have reason to believe &nbsp;it won&#8217;t be long before the days of =
Free
freight will be gone, rising fuel surcharges from carriers like UPS and =
FedEx, are
going to&nbsp; put the squeeze on the big mail order houses to the point =
where
they will stop offering the free freight &nbsp;incentive, so read the =
fine
print as it may not be that obvious when it =
happens.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;Another negative byproduct of buying online is =
it
really does hurt your local and state economy. In <st1:State =
w:st=3D"on"><st1:place
 w:st=3D"on">California</st1:place></st1:State>, where we pay one of the =
nation&#8217;s
highest sales tax at 8.25%, the advent of discount online mega stores =
has had a
crippling effect on our states economy. Not just in music retail, but =
pretty
much all retail sales. &nbsp;I see it first hand at Union Grove Music =
where I
work and I hear the same stories from all of the other retailers and =
sales reps
I talk to, even places like Guitar Center &nbsp;that&nbsp; for years =
have been
able to undercut the &nbsp;sales of smaller stores like us., they are =
losing
business to on line retailers. &nbsp;<st1:State w:st=3D"on"><st1:place =
w:st=3D"on">California</st1:place></st1:State>
has had a several week impasse over creating a new budget, Why? I =
believe in
part it&#8217;s because the state is broke and everyone is fighting for =
the
crumbs. What is a major source of revenue for the state of <st1:State =
w:st=3D"on"><st1:place
 w:st=3D"on">California</st1:place></st1:State>?&nbsp; You guessed it, =
sales tax,
and they are thinking of raising it again which will screw local =
business even
more, as the state hemorrhages more tax revenue from people avoiding it =
through
on line buying. &nbsp;I know many of you might not care and actually I =
really
didn&#8217;t for a number of years. Lets face it, getting something =
really cool,
&nbsp;really &nbsp;cheap, and avoiding paying sales tax is some what of =
a Red badge
of Courage among musicians, that has a subtle rebellious &nbsp;undertone =
of
sticking it to da man. I think we all at one time or another have =
conspiratorially
bragged to our friends about the steal we got on such in such and =
item.&nbsp; Its
human nature and for many of us also a necessity to find the bargain. =
&nbsp;But
as I drive the streets of the city in which I live,&nbsp; the roads are =
getting
bumpier, both literally and figuratively (crumbling infrastructure =
anyone?) &nbsp;&nbsp;and
I have made a personal &nbsp;decision to buy on line only when I =
absolutely can&#8217;t
find something I need &nbsp;locally, even if it ends up costing me =
&nbsp;a bit more,
and &nbsp;&nbsp;I urge all of you to think about the ramifications of =
buying on
line in the bigger picture, not just for yourself, but the community and =
State
where you live. I know some of you can&#8217;t stand going in to music =
stores
so I know I won&#8217;t convince you of anything </span></font><font =
size=3D2
face=3DWingdings><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings'>J</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> &nbsp;but
those of you who care about having a locally owned shop where you can =
actually
pick something up and try it out before forking over your hard earned =
shekels, &nbsp;&nbsp;I
urge you to support your local music, or CD, or appliance, or computer =
store
for that matter, and start looking at ways to Green you GAS. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Sorry for being such a gloomy Gus, but now is the =
time to
start thinking about these kinds of issues and getting proactive an =
individual
as well as collective way<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;Thanks <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;Bill<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</body>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Sep  3 09:05:34 2008
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Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 01:58:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: K D Patten <kdpatten@yahoo.com>
Subject: Fw: Re: OT reducing your carbon footprint, helping the state you live in
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always go for balance........=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 http://www.junkscience.=
com/Greenhouse/offset_calc.html=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20
http://www.junkscience.com/

sorry the OT guys...Couldn't help but respond......back to
 lurking

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<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;"><br><br><div><br></div><br><br><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br><br><div id="yiv111374482"><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td style="font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-size: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-size-adjust: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; -x-system-font: none;" valign="top">always go for
 balance........&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/offset_calc.html"><span class="yshortcuts" id="lw_1220431357_0">http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/offset_calc.html</span></a>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
 <br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>http://www.junkscience.com/<br><br>sorry the OT guys...Couldn't help but respond......back to
 lurking<br></td></tr></tbody></table></div></blockquote></td></tr></table>
--0-1288716457-1220432331=:43674--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Sep  3 09:07:11 2008
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To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: rs@moinlabs.de
Subject: Re: mobius and RME souncard optimizing
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Dear Luis,

> maybe because i ve looped with the EDP for quite long.The thing that keep=
s
> me from using it though is the latency issue when triggering the function=
s
> with the fcb1010,is there a way to optimize this better?=20

Just to understand you correctly here: you are talking about the latency fo=
r (MIDI) commands, not for audio data, right?
Personally, I never found any problems here, but I'm not as much latency-af=
fected as other people seem to be (for various reasons).
One approach I'd like to suggest is that you try comparing it with other tr=
igger methods (e.g. keyboard) to more closely pinpoint whether this is prob=
ably a problem with your MIDI driver.

> Also mobius seems to work with MME direct sound driver only,when i choose
> ASIO i get no sound,is this the driver you are working with for those of =
you
> using RME? =20

Using the MME driver will result in huge audio latency no doubt. I have to =
admit that I don't have first-hand experience with your specific configurat=
ion, but I can confirm that Mobius stand-alone with ASIO drivers works both=
 with RME interfaces (Multiface) and with Firewire-connected interfaces (Pr=
esonus Firebox, TC Konnekt 24D) with low latency values.

(For a discussion on audio latency, see also http://moinlabs.de/e_lat.htm).

Best,

               Rainer

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Sep  3 11:50:23 2008
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From: "Rainer Thelonius Balthasar Straschill" <rs@moinlabs.de>
Subject: Re: OT reducing your carbon footprint, helping the state you live in
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<TITLE>Message</TITLE></HEAD><BODY><P>Dear Bill,</P>
<P>thinking about ecology by thinking about what you call the carbon footpr=
int of some entity you acquire, and then taking guesses at it by making ass=
umptions about (and only about) its transport route from the manufacturer t=
o the end customer (which is, in the example, you), is actually oversimplif=
ying the case.</P>
<P>The carbon release from the transport from the harbour to your doorstep =
is but a small factor in the total ecobalance of a thing (let's stick with =
the Roland amplifier for that). Carbon dioxide emission is - although indir=
ectly - one of the causes of global warming, along with many others. Apart =
from looking at a carbon dioxide emission balance for the trip alone, to re=
ally be able to help the environment you would need to base your buying dec=
isions on the total ecobalance over lifetime for the device, which would be=
:</P>
<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; * which environmental factors went into development, =
manufacturing, sales<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; * which happen over usage lifeti=
me<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; * which happen after end-of life</P>
<P>Even if we only look at the transport from an international harbour to y=
our doorstep as in your example, you'd need to analyze the ecobalance of th=
e entire customer transaction process, which would include:</P>
<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; * direct entropy generation during the process =
(which would e.g. include the aircon running in your shop in SoCal)<BR>&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; * electricity consumed (which has a lot to do with the=
 efficieny e.g. of the IT infrastructure, and also from which kind of power=
 plant you draw the electricty)<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; * actual fuel c=
onsumption and emissions for all transport processes (this would also inclu=
de you driving by car to the music store and back in a car that is possibly=
 not up to date both with regard to low fuel consumption and toxic emission=
s)<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; * human ressources involved in the process</=
P>
<P>Are you able to do these calculations (meaning do you have both the nece=
ssary data and the know-how to work with it)? And if so, are you willing an=
d able to do the calculations for everything you buy?</P>
<P>I won't even start to go into detail about the lifetime total balance me=
ntioned above - but it suffices to say that stuff you hear, e.g. from marke=
ting brochures, doesn't tell you what you need to know.</P>
<P>One great example is Toyota's Prius hybrid car, praised as an ecological=
 breakthrough and solution to all the problems. One thing is that manufactu=
ring that car requires large amounts of Nickel, which is mined in Canada (w=
ith a severe impact on the environment), then transported to Europe for use=
 in making semifinished parts, then to China for making the batteries (also=
 with severe environmental impact), then to Japan for making the car, which=
 is shipped back to North America. As a result of this, the ecobalance of t=
he Prius is far inferior to that of your run-of-the-mill car. But even with=
 regard to fuel consumption, in a proper lifetime analysis in comparison to=
 a modern, fuel-efficient car with conventional power train (say, e.g., a B=
MW 118d), the Toyota looses even only regarding the co2 emissions for drivi=
ng it. And in specific situations, it will even loose to a 430bhp BMW M3 sp=
orts car (see Top Gear's S11E1 episode for a demonstration of that).</P>
<P>Not wanting to sound like a complete dickhole, but have you ever compare=
d the life ecobalance of a solid state guitar amp to that of a tube amp? ;)=
</P>
<P><BR>Your second point is also interesting and well taken, although all t=
he same relatively complicated. In typical federal countries and other unio=
ns, there's mostly some kind of communist cash flow (e.g. financial equaliz=
ation) between states (which, I'd believe, would happen from California to =
some mid-west states), which is based on that state's GNP. Now, if you live=
 in a (relatively) prosperous state, will it help more to buy locally (thus=
 increasing the local GNP, which will increase the state's spending on fina=
ncial equalization), or will it help more to buy in the mid-west (thus incr=
easing their local GNP, thus decreasing financial equalization and helping =
your local state)?<BR>It's interesting insofar as in some cases, selling on=
line is a viable and sometimes the only business option for businesses in s=
tructurally weaker regions. Of course, most of the time states like Califor=
nia, Bavaria etc. would benefit most if the would secede from the U.S./Germ=
any/EU, but failing that, it will help in the long run to empower the struc=
turally weaker regions.<BR>(I have been buying online for years in a shop l=
ocated in one of Germany's least developed regions near Berlin. I once had =
a long chat with their managing director, and he basically told me that the=
 local customers usually were of a kind that they would shop for e.g. guita=
r strings and, if they once really had a lot of money to spare, for a =8030=
 effects pedal. Short of being forced to declare bankrupcy, his resurgence =
came with online sales to other, economically stronger regions, which in th=
e long run helps everybody in a global market. This small shop, short of go=
ing out of business, now employs a lot of people, which in turn earn good m=
oney and use that to buy...stuff from California, which helps the economy t=
here, which will allow you...you get the message).</P>
<P>Economical systems usually are able to properly regulate itself. Reasons=
 for that not working are all the things which are government-enforced like=
 taxes, financial equalization, unions and similar awkward concepts. </P>
<P>It is perfectly understandable that you may want to support your local d=
ealership (for whatever reason, be it that you like to go to a store instea=
d of ordering online, or that you work at that dealership or that you like =
the people). But as above, optimizing your buying strategy in order to be i=
n line with non-local economical considerations is somewhat...complex.</P>
<P>Best,</P>
<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Rainer</P>
<P><BR><BR>----- original Nachricht --------<BR><BR><B>Betreff:</B> OT redu=
cing your carbon footprint, helping the state you live in<BR><B>Gesendet:</=
B> Mi, 03. Sep 2008<BR><B>Von:</B> William Walker<BILLWALKER@BAYMOON.COM><B=
R><BR></P>
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<DIV class=3DSection1>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN font-family:Arial&#3=
9;>Dear list,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN font-family:Arial&#3=
9;>&nbsp;I know this is off topic but I feel it=92s relevant.<o:p></o:p></S=
PAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN font-family:Arial&#3=
9;>&nbsp;I know many of you engage in on line buying, as do I, though I=92m=
 starting to have second thoughts about &nbsp;my on line habits. Like many =
of you, the lure of rock bottom prices and free freight, as well as the con=
venience of not leaving your house, and in some cases the distance from a m=
usic store making that impractical anyway, is hard to pass up. <o:p></o:p><=
/SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN font-family:Arial&#3=
9;>&nbsp;But in many cases I believe we are creating a bigger carbon footpr=
int by ordering on line simply by creating another trip the product has to =
make before it gets to our door step. Here is why, if a retail store like t=
he one I work at part time in <?xml:namespace prefix =3D st1 ns =3D "urn:sc=
hemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st=3D"on">Santa Cruz</s=
t1:City> orders some Roland or Line 6 products, they are shipped directly t=
o our store from their facilities in southern <st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:S=
tate w:st=3D"on">California</st1:State></st1:place>, which is one of the ma=
in ports on the west coast for Asian made electronics. &nbsp;If I were to o=
rder the same product on line from, for example, Musicians Friend, that Rol=
and or line 6 product would have first been trucked or flown to a warehouse=
 in the <st1:place w:st=3D"on">Midwest</st1:place> from So Cal, before bein=
g trucked or flown to your door step. If I had gotten it from Sweetwater it=
 would have been even further. &nbsp;Conversely if you bought a Danish made=
 TC electronics processor from MF and you lived on the East Coast, you woul=
d have bought a product that would have arrived by cargo ship or jet from <=
st1:place w:st=3D"on">Europe</st1:place>, to an east coast warehouse, and f=
lown or trucked half way across the country before for showing up at your d=
oor step. In either example, that=92s several thousand mile=92s of extra je=
t or diesel fuel, pardon the hyperbole. So even though we the customers are=
 saving money with the free freight and the no sales tax, it would appear t=
hat we are in our own small ways, increasing the carbon footprint, by burni=
ng more fossil fuel. Also, I have reason to believe &nbsp;it won=92t be lon=
g before the days of Free freight will be gone, rising fuel surcharges from=
 carriers like UPS and FedEx, are going to&nbsp; put the squeeze on the big=
 mail order houses to the point where they will stop offering the free frei=
ght &nbsp;incentive, so read the fine print as it may not be that obvious w=
hen it happens.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN font-family:Arial&#3=
9;>&nbsp;Another negative byproduct of buying online is it really does hurt=
 your local and state economy. In <st1:State w:st=3D"on"><st1:place w:st=3D=
"on">California</st1:place></st1:State>, where we pay one of the nation=92s=
 highest sales tax at 8.25%, the advent of discount online mega stores has =
had a crippling effect on our states economy. Not just in music retail, but=
 pretty much all retail sales. &nbsp;I see it first hand at Union Grove Mus=
ic where I work and I hear the same stories from all of the other retailers=
 and sales reps I talk to, even places like Guitar Center &nbsp;that&nbsp; =
for years have been able to undercut the &nbsp;sales of smaller stores like=
 us., they are losing business to on line retailers. &nbsp;<st1:State w:st=
=3D"on"><st1:place w:st=3D"on">California</st1:place></st1:State> has had a=
 several week impasse over creating a new budget, Why? I believe in part it=
=92s because the state is broke and everyone is fighting for the crumbs. Wh=
at is a major source of revenue for the state of <st1:State w:st=3D"on"><st=
1:place w:st=3D"on">California</st1:place></st1:State>?&nbsp; You guessed i=
t, sales tax, and they are thinking of raising it again which will screw lo=
cal business even more, as the state hemorrhages more tax revenue from peop=
le avoiding it through on line buying. &nbsp;I know many of you might not c=
are and actually I really didn=92t for a number of years. Lets face it, get=
ting something really cool, &nbsp;really &nbsp;cheap, and avoiding paying s=
ales tax is some what of a Red badge of Courage among musicians, that has a=
 subtle rebellious &nbsp;undertone of sticking it to da man. I think we all=
 at one time or another have conspiratorially bragged to our friends about =
the steal we got on such in such and item.&nbsp; Its human nature and for m=
any of us also a necessity to find the bargain. &nbsp;But as I drive the st=
reets of the city in which I live,&nbsp; the roads are getting bumpier, bot=
h literally and figuratively (crumbling infrastructure anyone?) &nbsp;&nbsp=
;and I have made a personal &nbsp;decision to buy on line only when I absol=
utely can=92t find something I need &nbsp;locally, even if it ends up costi=
ng me &nbsp;a bit more, and &nbsp;&nbsp;I urge all of you to think about th=
e ramifications of buying on line in the bigger picture, not just for yours=
elf, but the community and State where you live. I know some of you can=92t=
 stand going in to music stores so I know I won=92t convince you of anythin=
g </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DWingdings size=3D2><SPAN>J</SPAN></FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN> &nbsp;but those of you who care about having a=
 locally owned shop where you can actually pick something up and try it out=
 before forking over your hard earned shekels, &nbsp;&nbsp;I urge you to su=
pport your local music, or CD, or appliance, or computer store for that mat=
ter, and start looking at ways to Green you GAS. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT><=
/P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN font-family:Arial&#3=
9;>Sorry for being such a gloomy Gus, but now is the time to start thinking=
 about these kinds of issues and getting proactive an individual as well as=
 collective way<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN font-family:Arial&#3=
9;>&nbsp;Thanks <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN font-family:Arial&#3=
9;>&nbsp;Bill<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN font-family:Arial&#3=
9;><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN font-family:Arial&#3=
9;><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV><BR><BR>--- original Nachricht =
Ende ----<BR></BODY></HTML>
--b_01_7a56eb269b8a0ff4b24f0afa4d31a254
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear Bill,=0Athinking about ecology by thinking about what you call the car=
bon footprint of some entity you acquire, and then taking guesses at it by =
making assumptions about (and only about) its transport route from the manu=
facturer to the end customer (which is, in the example, you), is actually o=
versimplifying the case.=0AThe carbon release from the transport from the h=
arbour to your doorstep is but a small factor in the total ecobalance of a =
thing (let's stick with the Roland amplifier for that). Carbon dioxide emis=
sion is - although indirectly - one of the causes of global warming, along =
with many others. Apart from looking at a carbon dioxide emission balance f=
or the trip alone, to really be able to help the environment you would need=
 to base your buying decisions on the total ecobalance over lifetime for th=
e device, which would be:=0A    * which environmental factors went into dev=
elopment, manufacturing, sales=0A    * which happen over usage lifetime=0A =
   * which happen after end-of life=0AEven if we only look at the transport=
 from an international harbour to your doorstep as in your example, you'd n=
eed to analyze the ecobalance of the entire customer transaction process, w=
hich would include:=0A     * direct entropy generation during the process (=
which would e.g. include the aircon running in your shop in SoCal)=0A     *=
 electricity consumed (which has a lot to do with the efficieny e.g. of the=
 IT infrastructure, and also from which kind of power plant you draw the el=
ectricty)=0A     * actual fuel consumption and emissions for all transport =
processes (this would also include you driving by car to the music store an=
d back in a car that is possibly not up to date both with regard to low fue=
l consumption and toxic emissions)=0A     * human ressources involved in th=
e process=0AAre you able to do these calculations (meaning do you have both=
 the necessary data and the know-how to work with it)? And if so, are you w=
illing and able to do the calculations for everything you buy?=0AI won't ev=
en start to go into detail about the lifetime total balance mentioned above=
 - but it suffices to say that stuff you hear, e.g. from marketing brochure=
s, doesn't tell you what you need to know.=0AOne great example is Toyota's =
Prius hybrid car, praised as an ecological breakthrough and solution to all=
 the problems. One thing is that manufacturing that car requires large amou=
nts of Nickel, which is mined in Canada (with a severe impact on the enviro=
nment), then transported to Europe for use in making semifinished parts, th=
en to China for making the batteries (also with severe environmental impact=
), then to Japan for making the car, which is shipped back to North America=
. As a result of this, the ecobalance of the Prius is far inferior to that =
of your run-of-the-mill car. But even with regard to fuel consumption, in a=
 proper lifetime analysis in comparison to a modern, fuel-efficient car wit=
h conventional power train (say, e.g., a BMW 118d), the Toyota looses even =
only regarding the co2 emissions for driving it. And in specific situations=
, it will even loose to a 430bhp BMW M3 sports car (see Top Gear's S11E1 ep=
isode for a demonstration of that).=0ANot wanting to sound like a complete =
dickhole, but have you ever compared the life ecobalance of a solid state g=
uitar amp to that of a tube amp? ;)=0A=0AYour second point is also interest=
ing and well taken, although all the same relatively complicated. In typica=
l federal countries and other unions, there's mostly some kind of communist=
 cash flow (e.g. financial equalization) between states (which, I'd believe=
, would happen from California to some mid-west states), which is based on =
that state's GNP. Now, if you live in a (relatively) prosperous state, will=
 it help more to buy locally (thus increasing the local GNP, which will inc=
rease the state's spending on financial equalization), or will it help more=
 to buy in the mid-west (thus increasing their local GNP, thus decreasing f=
inancial equalization and helping your local state)?=0AIt's interesting ins=
ofar as in some cases, selling online is a viable and sometimes the only bu=
siness option for businesses in structurally weaker regions. Of course, mos=
t of the time states like California, Bavaria etc. would benefit most if th=
e would secede from the U.S./Germany/EU, but failing that, it will help in =
the long run to empower the structurally weaker regions.=0A(I have been buy=
ing online for years in a shop located in one of Germany's least developed =
regions near Berlin. I once had a long chat with their managing director, a=
nd he basically told me that the local customers usually were of a kind tha=
t they would shop for e.g. guitar strings and, if they once really had a lo=
t of money to spare, for a =8030 effects pedal. Short of being forced to de=
clare bankrupcy, his resurgence came with online sales to other, economical=
ly stronger regions, which in the long run helps everybody in a global mark=
et. This small shop, short of going out of business, now employs a lot of p=
eople, which in turn earn good money and use that to buy...stuff from Calif=
ornia, which helps the economy there, which will allow you...you get the me=
ssage).=0AEconomical systems usually are able to properly regulate itself. =
Reasons for that not working are all the things which are government-enforc=
ed like taxes, financial equalization, unions and similar awkward concepts.=
 =0AIt is perfectly understandable that you may want to support your local =
dealership (for whatever reason, be it that you like to go to a store inste=
ad of ordering online, or that you work at that dealership or that you like=
 the people). But as above, optimizing your buying strategy in order to be =
in line with non-local economical considerations is somewhat...complex.=0AB=
est,=0A                 Rainer=0A=0A=0A----- original Nachricht --------=0A=
=0ABetreff: OT reducing your carbon footprint, helping the state you live i=
n=0AGesendet: Mi, 03. Sep 2008=0AVon: William Walker=0A=0A=0ADear list,=0A =
I know this is off topic but I feel it=92s relevant.=0A I know many of you =
engage in on line buying, as do I, though I=92m starting to have second tho=
ughts about  my on line habits. Like many of you, the lure of rock bottom p=
rices and free freight, as well as the convenience of not leaving your hous=
e, and in some cases the distance from a music store making that impractica=
l anyway, is hard to pass up. =0A But in many cases I believe we are creati=
ng a bigger carbon footprint by ordering on line simply by creating another=
 trip the product has to make before it gets to our door step. Here is why,=
 if a retail store like the one I work at part time in Santa Cruz orders so=
me Roland or Line 6 products, they are shipped directly to our store from t=
heir facilities in southern California, which is one of the main ports on t=
he west coast for Asian made electronics.  If I were to order the same prod=
uct on line from, for example, Musicians Friend, that Roland or line 6 prod=
uct would have first been trucked or flown to a warehouse in the Midwest fr=
om So Cal, before being trucked or flown to your door step. If I had gotten=
 it from Sweetwater it would have been even further.  Conversely if you bou=
ght a Danish made TC electronics processor from MF and you lived on the Eas=
t Coast, you would have bought a product that would have arrived by cargo s=
hip or jet from Europe, to an east coast warehouse, and flown or trucked ha=
lf way across the country before for showing up at your door step. In eithe=
r example, that=92s several thousand mile=92s of extra jet or diesel fuel, =
pardon the hyperbole. So even though we the customers are saving money with=
 the free freight and the no sales tax, it would appear that we are in our =
own small ways, increasing the carbon footprint, by burning more fossil fue=
l. Also, I have reason to believe  it won=92t be long before the days of Fr=
ee freight will be gone, rising fuel surcharges from carriers like UPS and =
FedEx, are going to  put the squeeze on the big mail order houses to the po=
int where they will stop offering the free freight  incentive, so read the =
fine print as it may not be that obvious when it happens.=0A Another negati=
ve byproduct of buying online is it really does hurt your local and state e=
conomy. In California, where we pay one of the nation=92s highest sales tax=
 at 8.25%, the advent of discount online mega stores has had a crippling ef=
fect on our states economy. Not just in music retail, but pretty much all r=
etail sales.  I see it first hand at Union Grove Music where I work and I h=
ear the same stories from all of the other retailers and sales reps I talk =
to, even places like Guitar Center  that  for years have been able to under=
cut the  sales of smaller stores like us., they are losing business to on l=
ine retailers.  California has had a several week impasse over creating a n=
ew budget, Why? I believe in part it=92s because the state is broke and eve=
ryone is fighting for the crumbs. What is a major source of revenue for the=
 state of California?  You guessed it, sales tax, and they are thinking of =
raising it again which will screw local business even more, as the state he=
morrhages more tax revenue from people avoiding it through on line buying. =
 I know many of you might not care and actually I really didn=92t for a num=
ber of years. Lets face it, getting something really cool,  really  cheap, =
and avoiding paying sales tax is some what of a Red badge of Courage among =
musicians, that has a subtle rebellious  undertone of sticking it to da man=
. I think we all at one time or another have conspiratorially bragged to ou=
r friends about the steal we got on such in such and item.  Its human natur=
e and for many of us also a necessity to find the bargain.  But as I drive =
the streets of the city in which I live,  the roads are getting bumpier, bo=
th literally and figuratively (crumbling infrastructure anyone?)   and I ha=
ve made a personal  decision to buy on line only when I absolutely can=92t =
find something I need  locally, even if it ends up costing me  a bit more, =
and   I urge all of you to think about the ramifications of buying on line =
in the bigger picture, not just for yourself, but the community and State w=
here you live. I know some of you can=92t stand going in to music stores so=
 I know I won=92t convince you of anything J  but those of you who care abo=
ut having a locally owned shop where you can actually pick something up and=
 try it out before forking over your hard earned shekels,   I urge you to s=
upport your local music, or CD, or appliance, or computer store for that ma=
tter, and start looking at ways to Green you GAS. =0ASorry for being such a=
 gloomy Gus, but now is the time to start thinking about these kinds of iss=
ues and getting proactive an individual as well as collective way=0A Thanks=
 =0A Bill=0A =0A =0A=0A=0A--- original Nachricht Ende ----=0A
--b_01_7a56eb269b8a0ff4b24f0afa4d31a254--

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I trust you're aware of the fact the the junk science website is run by Ste=
ven Milloy, a former tobacco industry lobbyist. He is a scientifically illi=
terate lawyer and global warming denialist, and, unless your goal is to emb=
arrass yourself, you need to be very careful about quoting him in front of =
anybody who actually knows something about anthropogenic climate change.


---- K D Patten <kdpatten@yahoo.com> wrote:=20
> always go for balance........=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
 http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/offset_calc.html=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=20
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=20
> http://www.junkscience.com/
>=20
> sorry the OT guys...Couldn't help but respond......back to
>  lurking

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Sep  3 13:24:51 2008
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To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: Nico Spahni <nicosp@gmx.net>
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Hi folks

I'll be gone for a while cause I have so much on my plate right now  
(plus a second child on its way...). Thanks for all the valuable,  
stimulating inputs!

Cheers

Nico

www.recpro.ch
www.myspace.com/nicospahni	
http://www.jamendo.com/en/artist/Nico_Spahni

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Sep  3 13:51:56 2008
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From: RP Collier <skeptikalist@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: OT reducing your carbon footprint
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 06:51:47 -0700
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On Sep 3, 2008, at 1:58 AM, K D Patten wrote:

> always go for  
> balance........                                                        
>                             http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/ 
> offset_calc.html
>
> http://www.junkscience.com/


Ahh...That is associated with Fox News -- the fair and balanced  
crowd, the let us over-consume because it is our tradition and  
patriotic duty group, the *regulation is bad* because it interferes  
with our ability to rape and pillage the planet network.

I've always disliked the *warming* issue because it is too easy for  
people to dither ( geologic time scales etc.) and ignore the fact of  
the excessive impact of our species on all ecological functions  --  
CO2 is just one of many, many forms of pollution we spew into the world.
(Recent data links sunscreen lotion use to coral reef devastation.)
Fertilizer fun-off, dead zones in the ocean, over-fishing, massive  
deforestation etc. etc....
And of course over-population: way too much pressure on delicate and  
sensitive ecological systems.

Why is it that conservatives (Fox News) don't want to conserve  
anything (except maybe archaic social taboos)? Why is the Right  
nearly always wrong?
I think there has been within the last century the emergence of a new  
species: Obliviates.
These are people who don't care about the future, don't care about  
the effect of their actions and lifestyle on the world and use denial  
to support their delusions.
Fox News is the obliviate network.

A simple thing to do to help: stop eating beef, stop supporting the  
beef cattle industry.

To decrease my rant footprint, let me just say:

whenever possible, live more gently and intelligently.

regards

BobC

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Sep  3 14:12:00 2008
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Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 10:10:45 -0400
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Subject: Re: OT reducing your carbon footprint
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Excellent, Bob!

>On Sep 3, 2008, at 1:58 AM, K D Patten wrote:
>
>>always go for 
>>balance........                                                       
>> 
>>http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/offset_calc.html
>>
>>http://www.junkscience.com/
>
>
>Ahh...That is associated with Fox News -- the fair and balanced 
>crowd, the let us over-consume because it is our tradition and 
>patriotic duty group, the *regulation is bad* because it interferes 
>with our ability to rape and pillage the planet network.
>
>I've always disliked the *warming* issue because it is too easy for 
>people to dither ( geologic time scales etc.) and ignore the fact of 
>the excessive impact of our species on all ecological functions  -- 
>CO2 is just one of many, many forms of pollution we spew into the 
>world.
>(Recent data links sunscreen lotion use to coral reef devastation.)
>Fertilizer fun-off, dead zones in the ocean, over-fishing, massive 
>deforestation etc. etc....
>And of course over-population: way too much pressure on delicate and 
>sensitive ecological systems.
>
>Why is it that conservatives (Fox News) don't want to conserve 
>anything (except maybe archaic social taboos)? Why is the Right 
>nearly always wrong?
>I think there has been within the last century the emergence of a 
>new species: Obliviates.
>These are people who don't care about the future, don't care about 
>the effect of their actions and lifestyle on the world and use 
>denial to support their delusions.
>Fox News is the obliviate network.
>
>A simple thing to do to help: stop eating beef, stop supporting the 
>beef cattle industry.
>
>To decrease my rant footprint, let me just say:
>
>whenever possible, live more gently and intelligently.
>
>regards
>
>BobC


-- 
...
http://www.zmix.net

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Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 15:12:55 +0100
From: "Simeon Harris" <simeonharris40@googlemail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Album spam
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------=_Part_19822_30332504.1220451175793
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Just to let any folks who might be interested know....I've recently
remastered three of my albums and have made them available via my site as
high quality (256kbps) MP3's and also as FLAC files. The old versions are
still available on iTunes, but these new versions are cheaper and better
quality - =A35 for the MP3's and =A36 for the FLAC files. I also have some =
CD's
available of the Captured album.
I'm currently working on my next opus...called eScape....I have completed 6
tunes and hope to be finished in a couple of months. Click on the standalon=
e
player link in my site to hear full length previews of three of the tunes -
Lucid Dreaming, eScape and Techtonik.

Enjoying being back on the list and I hope I can contribute something usefu=
l
to somebody at some time!

Here's the link to my site - http://www.simeonharris.co.uk - click on Music

All the best

Sim


NP - Michael Brook - BellCurve

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Just to let any folks who might be interested know....I&#3=
9;ve recently remastered three of my albums and have made them available vi=
a my site as high quality (256kbps) MP3&#39;s and also as FLAC files. The o=
ld versions are still available on iTunes, but these new versions are cheap=
er and better quality - =A35 for the MP3&#39;s and =A36 for the FLAC files.=
 I also have some CD&#39;s available of the Captured album.<div>
<br></div><div>I&#39;m currently working on my next opus...called eScape...=
.I have completed 6 tunes and hope to be finished in a couple of months. Cl=
ick on the standalone player link in my site to hear full length previews o=
f three of the tunes - Lucid Dreaming, eScape and Techtonik.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Enjoying being back on the list and I hope I can contri=
bute something useful to somebody at some time!</div><div><br></div><div>He=
re&#39;s the link to my site - <a href=3D"http://www.simeonharris.co.uk">ht=
tp://www.simeonharris.co.uk</a> - click on Music</div>
<div><br></div><div>All the best</div><div><br></div><div>Sim</div><div><br=
></div><div><br></div><div>NP - Michael Brook - BellCurve</div><div><br></d=
iv></div>

------=_Part_19822_30332504.1220451175793--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Sep  3 14:21:23 2008
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To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
References: <6D37C60E80E447A2958DD902555439CD@williamsteed>
Subject: Re: OT reducing your carbon footprint, helping the state you live in
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 07:20:32 -0700
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Technically, you are supposed to pay sales tax to your state when you =
buy something online.  The responsibility is on the individual in this =
case instead of the store.  Of course, when there is no auditing, people =
will chose to simply not pay the tax.

As for California, I suspect that our problems are much deeper than =
people buying online.

I do like to support local businesses because I prefer the attention to =
customer satisfaction that you get from a small local business.  I find =
it is well worth the extra few dollars to be assured that you are really =
getting what you want.

Bob Amstadt
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Technically, you are =
supposed to pay=20
sales tax to your state when you buy something online.&nbsp; The =
responsibility=20
is on the individual in this case instead of the store.&nbsp; Of course, =
when=20
there is no auditing, people will chose to simply not pay the=20
tax.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">As for California, I =
suspect that=20
our problems are much deeper than people buying =
online.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I=20
do like to support local businesses because I prefer the attention to =
customer=20
satisfaction that you get from a small local business.&nbsp; I find it =
is well=20
worth the extra few dollars to be assured that you are really getting =
what you=20
want.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Bob=20
Amstadt</SPAN></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Sep  3 14:31:18 2008
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Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 07:31:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: George Ludwig <sfmissionman@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: sfmissionman@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Mobius & Live...why
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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Thanks for the insight. I also have Live Lite that came with my Digi 002R, but I don't want to use the 002R for live gigs. So I'm going to have to upgrade, and I'm trying to decide if I should spring for the full version or if LE is enough. I've already got ProTools and Sonar, so I don't think I need another DAW. But you never know. I'm currently using the Live eval with a MOTU 828.

Since I first posted this message, I had another thought about Live and Mobius. If you're using a MIDI foot controller, you can record both your linear audio as well as MIDI input, and as such can play back a looping performance by routing the real time linear audio as well as the MIDI commands back in to Mobius. That would enable you to do things like fix minor mistakes in the audio, or better adjust things like feedback and volume in the MIDI data stream, and then re-render the looping performance.   

I wonder if ayone is actually doing this?



--- On Tue, 9/2/08, sine@zerocrossing.net <sine@zerocrossing.net> wrote:

> From: sine@zerocrossing.net <sine@zerocrossing.net>
> Subject: Re: Mobius & Live...why
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Date: Tuesday, September 2, 2008, 3:17 PM
> I initially got Live "Lite" with my audio
> interface and I thought it might
> be a cool way to do a live show sans instruments.  Kind of
> "DJ" my own
> music by pre-recording loops and then kind of reconstitute
> them.
> 
> BORING.  To me at least.  People seemed to like it but I
> felt like I was
> checking my email and not making music.
> 
> So then when I started using Mobius I really wanted to use
> VST instruments
> and effects as well.  Live was a good choice because I
> could just upgrade
> from the Lite version.  It's also ubiquitous so almost
> all commercial plug
> ins are tested so they work in it.  Also, it's easy to
> use.  Bidule seems
> super powerful, but most of it I don't need.  I like to
> keep that kind of
> complexity away from me in the looping process.
> 
> Also, one of the things I love about Live is that I can
> make automation
> loops that are a lot longer than my audio loops.  This is
> great for
> applying an effect that changes over a very long time
> period.
> 
> Basically I use 20% of what Live is good for, but it's
> nice to know that I
> have it for the future and in the mean time I have a great
> little
> instrument and looper set up that's stable.
> 
> Mark



      

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Sep  3 14:42:05 2008
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Reply-To: "e t e r o g e n e o" <info@eterogeneo.com>
From: "e t e r o g e n e o" <info@eterogeneo.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
References: <005501c90cd5$32adfb40$0f92a8c0@voo.intra> <7bbc77a6be3dc929155752a44a7106e5@charter.net>
Subject: Re: looper for the iphone
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 16:42:00 +0200
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Great !
..so when "iLoop" will be out ?   ;- )

fabio



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "tEd ® KiLLiAn" <tedkillian@charter.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 4:35 PM
Subject: Re: looper for the iphone


> How very amazing . . . and inspiring.
>
> I can see it now . . . a CT collective album of music made only with 
> iPhones.
>
> It'd almost make it worth while getting an iPhone.
>
> I wonder how one obtains the software.
>
> I don't remember the fellow mentioning it in his video.
>
> Onward and upward.
>
> Maybe someday.
>
> Ted
>
> On Sep 2, 2008, at 1:23 AM, Ben wrote:
>
>> well almost :-)
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNlZQhSj32E
>>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.14/1646 - Release 
> Date: 01/09/2008 18.03
>
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Sep  3 15:32:19 2008
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From: "Qua Veda" <qua@oregon.com>
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Subject: For Sale:  4-core audio computer, other gear
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 08:32:29 -0700
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Hi,

Due to shifting priorities, circumstances I am selling some great gear.
Before I post to craigslist and ebay,  thought I'd let you know about these
items. 

Can only ship in the US.   If interested,  please contact me offlist  at
empyrean@oregon.com

Thanks,

-Qua

 

1)      Custom ,optimized for audio, 4U rackmount PC, optimized for audio

http://www.pcaudiolabs.com/daws_easyconfig02a.asp?cat=comp

WindowsXP sp2

2.4 ghz  Intel Quad Core Core2 CPU

2gb ram

3 SATA hard drives:  80gb (OS, apps),  250gb (data),  250gb (data, backup ,
etc)

DVD RW drive

Memory card slots

FW, USB ports

Radeon X1300 video card

Orig. paid over $2000 ,   in 2007

Asking:  only $975 +shipping  ,    lightweight rack case available

                                Can include Ableton, MaxMSP, Reaktor
(registration not transferable)

2)      Gordius LG -  super programmable midi  foot controller - $575

3)      Aphex 204  Aural Exciter  -$95

4)      Bag End TA-6000 time aligned passive speakers  - $385 ea 

http://www.bagend.com/bagend/downloads/proaudioreviewjan00.PDF

5)      Stewart Audio 1.2 power amp, 1U convection cooled

6)      May have more . 


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<p class=3DMsoNormal>Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>Due to shifting priorities, circumstances I am =
selling some
great gear.&nbsp; Before I post to craigslist and ebay,&nbsp; thought =
I&#8217;d
let you know about these items. <o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>Can only ship in the US.&nbsp;&nbsp; If =
interested,&nbsp;
please contact me offlist&nbsp; at&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"mailto:empyrean@oregon.com">empyrean@oregon.com</a><o:p></o:p></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>-Qua<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 =
level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>Custom ,optimized for audio, 4U rackmount PC, =
optimized
for audio<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-indent:.5in'><a
href=3D"http://www.pcaudiolabs.com/daws_easyconfig02a.asp?cat=3Dcomp">htt=
p://www.pcaudiolabs.com/daws_easyconfig02a.asp?cat=3Dcomp</a><o:p></o:p><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>WindowsXP =
sp2<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>2.4 ghz&nbsp; Intel Quad =
Core Core2
CPU<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>2gb ram<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>3 SATA hard =
drives:&nbsp; 80gb (OS,
apps),&nbsp; 250gb (data),&nbsp; 250gb (data, backup , =
etc)<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>DVD RW =
drive<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>Memory card =
slots<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>FW, USB =
ports<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>Radeon X1300 video =
card<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>Orig. paid over $2000 =
,&nbsp; &nbsp;in
2007<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>Asking:&nbsp; only $975 =
+shipping&nbsp;
,&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; lightweight rack case available<o:p></o:p></p>

<p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Can
include Ableton, MaxMSP, Reaktor (registration not =
transferable)<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 =
level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>Gordius LG -&nbsp; super programmable midi =
&nbsp;foot controller
- $575<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 =
level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>3)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>Aphex 204&nbsp; Aural Exciter&nbsp; =
-$95<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 =
level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>4)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>Bag End TA-6000 time aligned passive =
speakers&nbsp; - $385
ea <o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><a
href=3D"http://www.bagend.com/bagend/downloads/proaudioreviewjan00.PDF">h=
ttp://www.bagend.com/bagend/downloads/proaudioreviewjan00.PDF</a><o:p></o=
:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 =
level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>5)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>Stewart Audio 1.2 power amp, 1U convection =
cooled<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 =
level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>6)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>May have more &#8230; <o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

</body>

</html>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Sep  3 15:38:37 2008
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From: "Joshua & Jennifer Easley" <j.easley@msn.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
References: <000901c90cdf$17f285a0$6401a8c0@wolffshookmain> <BLU136-DAV8E544C56B98BB2A703CBC865F0@phx.gbl> <000101c90d2d$35295380$6401a8c0@wolffshookmain> <002201c90d71$708575f0$0202a8c0@YOUR08D5303051>
Subject: Re: New Member - Buying Advice and Opinions Sought
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----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Jeff Duke" <jeff_d@embarqmail.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 8:02 PM
Subject: Re: New Member - Buying Advice and Opinions Sought


> That is correct, the digi jamman is designed to pre record your =
backing=20
> tracks. Its not a live looper IMO. its a phrase sampler.=20

It's both a phrase sampler and a live looper. Just because it doesn't =
jump seamlessly between loops doesn't mean that it can't be used live, =
or that it wasn't "designed" to; it just means that the loop itself is a =
static, one way sort of thing. . . an obvious limitation when comparing =
it to other loopers, but still useful in its own way, esp. for beginners =
 . .



> From: "Rob "Bodhi" Wolff" <Bodhiwolff@comcast.net>
> To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 2:53 PM
> Subject: RE: New Member - Buying Advice and Opinions Sought
>=20
>=20
>> Thank you for the suggestion!
>>
>> The only issue I might have with the JamMan is that, while on paper =
it
>> appears that you can have up to 99 loops, it appears that you must =
stop
>> playback and store each loop before moving to a new one, or your work =
is
>> erased.  Thus, working live wouldn't work, as you'd only ever be =
working
>> with a single loop, being unable to stop playback and store.  Or =
rather,
>> live work reduces the JamMan to a single-loop device, if you see what =
I
>> mean.
>>
>> However, I could be mis-reading the documentation.  Please correct me =
if=20
>> I'm
>> wrong.
>>
>> If anybody has any experience working with the JamMan, I'd appreciate
>> hearing your opinions.
>>
>> //////////////
>>
>> I still keep looking at the Boomerang III (which I know isn't out =
yet) but
>> the lack of microphone is a deal-breaker for me.  I'm often working =
with
>> somebody else's setup (with their show) so I couldn't simply bring =
along=20
>> my
>> own mixer, etc. and plug back in.  Is there an easy-ish workaround =
for
>> adding a microphone (which would, by necessity, require a means of=20
>> switching
>> between mic/inst/both ?)  I guess this question applies to many more
>> products than the Boomerang, as well, since this would bring many =
more
>> products into possible contention.
>>
>> Thank you to everybody for any advice you can give.
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: Joshua & Jennifer Easley [mailto:j.easley@msn.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 8:42 AM
>> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>> Subject: Re: New Member - Buying Advice and Opinions Sought
>>
>>
>> Hi Rob,
>>
>> Have you looked at the Digitech JamMan? it has both instrument and =
mic
>> inputs (presumably you can use them both at the same), and can also =
be=20
>> used
>> as an interface for computer recording. .
>>
>> The same is true of the GNX4, which may be an even better solution if =
you
>> want to incorporate effects and amp models into your loops (i.e. make =
your
>> acoustic sound like an electric). The GNX4 has an integrated "JamMan"
>> looper, different from the above, but in a way better, because with =
it you
>> can lay down up to 8 mono loop tracks (or 4 stereo), and then =
disengage or
>> re-engage them by pressing the corresponding track buttons. (For =
example,=20
>> if
>> on track 1 you record guitar, vocals on track 2, and some sort of =
rhythym=20
>> on
>> track 3, then, for variation, you can press buttons 1 & 2 to silence =
them,
>> leaving only the third track playing; if you press the same buttons =
again
>> tracks 1 & 2 will start playing again.)
>>
>> I used the GNX for several years before upgrading to an Echoplex =
(probably
>> #1 of the "big three" that you referred to). The former has the =
advantage=20
>> of
>> being really easy to use, so it's obviously a good way to start. I =
like it
>> too (and still use it in my live setup) because it's literally an all =
in=20
>> one
>> device, thus simplifying the whole potentially complicated routing =
issue.=20
>> .
>> .
>>
>> --Joshua
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----=20
>> From: "Rob "Bodhi" Wolff" <Bodhiwolff@comcast.net
>> <mailto:Bodhiwolff@comcast.net> >
>> To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>> <mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com> >
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 2:34 AM
>> Subject: New Member - Buying Advice and Opinions Sought
>>
>>
>>> Hi all!
>>>
>>> I'm a new member to the list, and I'm looking to expand my musical =
style
>> by
>>> getting into looping.  However, I find that my lack of knowledge and
>>> experience with the equipment is hampering my decision-making =
process,=20
>>> and
>>> I'm hoping that you all might be able to guide me a little.
>>>
>>> I hope I'm not breaking any etiquette by asking for purchasing =
advice.=20
>>> If
>>> so, please simply ignore my newbie mistake.
>>>
>>> I've tried reading up on the various products, and I tried reading =
the
>>> reviews up on this site, but frankly I am still mostly in the dark.=20
>>> Heck,
>>> people keep referring to the "big three", and I'm still not sure =
which
>> three
>>> they're referring to!
>>>
>>> While I'd appreciate any reading lists or advice for suggested =
reading=20
>>> you
>>> wish to give, I really think that I'm just going to need to trust =
the
>>> experts at some point.
>>>
>>> So I thought I'd just come out and ask you what you thought I should =
pick
>>> up, specifically, for my particular requirements.
>>>
>>> My needs:  I play almost exclusively live, acoustic guitar and =
vocals at
>> the
>>> same time, and would want to loop either guitar or vocals or both =
(or
>> other
>>> instruments through the mike).  As a live player, I'd need something
>>> portable, small, easy to set up, etc. (a rack-mounted unit is =
probably
>>> inappropriate) and my hands will be unavailable while playing, as a
>>> guitarist.  The loops would need to be at least the length of an =
entire
>>> verse/chorus combination, so that could run up to 1 minute or more.  =
As a
>>> live acoustic instrumentalist, it'd be nice if the sound quality was =
as
>> high
>>> as possible, and if there was little-to-no hiss from the looping =
unit.
>> It'd
>>> be nice to save a decent loop after the fact (off the unit onto a
>> recording
>>> medium of some sort) but this is far secondary to decent live=20
>>> performance.
>>> Ease-of-use is a bonus, but I'm expecting a learning curve.  =
However,=20
>>> that
>>> being said, the ability to remove the last layer (if a mistake was =
made,
>>> 'cause I make 'em!) would be a big plus!  Simple effects would be =
nice,
>> too,
>>> as I own no effects pedals (and feel free to make suggestions there =
if=20
>>> you
>>> feel they would enhance things).  I'd want to loop both guitar and =
vocal
>>> lines at various times, perhaps even looping multiple different =
loops and
>>> playing them in synch, or in sequence.
>>>
>>> I looked at the new Boomerang III specs on a friends' advice, and =
from
>> what
>>> I could make of it, it seemed that it only loops one input (so I =
could
>> only
>>> loop the guitar, or the vocals, but not both).  Of course, I could =
be
>> wrong,
>>> and/or there may be a workaround that is commonly used for this =
drawback
>> (if
>>> this is a common state of affairs for many looping pedals).
>>>
>>> I'm extremely interested in moving forward with this project, but =
sadly I
>>> just seem to have run into an informational wall that I can't seem =
to
>> break.
>>>
>>> So please, if you have a moment, feel free to share any advice, =
thoughts,
>> or
>>> suggestions that you wish.  And frankly, if you simpy want to come =
out=20
>>> and
>>> say "I'd suggest buying Such-and-such" then that is fine by me!
>>>
>>> Thank you kindly for your consideration.
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>> Rob "Bodhi" Wolff
>>>
>>>
>>
>=20
>=20
> =
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------
>=20
>=20
>=20
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.15/1648 - Release Date: =
9/2/2008=20
> 5:29 PM
>=20
>
------=_NextPart_000_0104_01C90DA0.7FEC70A0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2873" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>----- Original Message ----- </FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>From: "Jeff Duke" &lt;</FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:jeff_d@embarqmail.com"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>jeff_d@embarqmail.com</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>&gt;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>To: &lt;</FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com</FONT></A><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>&gt;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 8:02=20
PM</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Subject: Re: New Member - Buying Advice =
and=20
Opinions Sought</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><BR><FONT size=3D2></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&gt; That is correct, the digi jamman =
is designed=20
to pre record your backing <BR>&gt; tracks. Its not a live looper IMO. =
its a=20
phrase sampler. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>It's both a phrase sampler and a live looper. =
Just because=20
it doesn't jump seamlessly between loops doesn't mean that it&nbsp;can't =
be=20
used&nbsp;live, or that it wasn't "designed" to; it just means =
that&nbsp;the=20
loop itself is&nbsp;a static, one way sort of thing. . . an obvious =
limitation=20
when comparing it to other loopers, but still useful in its own way, =
esp. for=20
beginners . . .</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&gt; From: "Rob "Bodhi" Wolff" =
&lt;</FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:Bodhiwolff@comcast.net"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>Bodhiwolff@comcast.net</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>&gt;<BR>&gt; To:=20
&lt;</FONT><A href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com</FONT></A><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>&gt;<BR>&gt; Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 2:53 PM<BR>&gt; =
Subject:=20
RE: New Member - Buying Advice and Opinions Sought<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; =
<BR>&gt;&gt;=20
Thank you for the suggestion!<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; The only issue I =
might=20
have with the JamMan is that, while on paper it<BR>&gt;&gt; appears that =
you can=20
have up to 99 loops, it appears that you must stop<BR>&gt;&gt; playback =
and=20
store each loop before moving to a new one, or your work is<BR>&gt;&gt;=20
erased.&nbsp; Thus, working live wouldn't work, as you'd only ever be=20
working<BR>&gt;&gt; with a single loop, being unable to stop playback =
and=20
store.&nbsp; Or rather,<BR>&gt;&gt; live work reduces the JamMan to a=20
single-loop device, if you see what I<BR>&gt;&gt; =
mean.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;=20
However, I could be mis-reading the documentation.&nbsp; Please correct =
me if=20
<BR>&gt;&gt; I'm<BR>&gt;&gt; wrong.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; If anybody =
has any=20
experience working with the JamMan, I'd appreciate<BR>&gt;&gt; hearing =
your=20
opinions.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; //////////////<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; =
I still=20
keep looking at the Boomerang III (which I know isn't out yet) =
but<BR>&gt;&gt;=20
the lack of microphone is a deal-breaker for me.&nbsp; I'm often working =

with<BR>&gt;&gt; somebody else's setup (with their show) so I couldn't =
simply=20
bring along <BR>&gt;&gt; my<BR>&gt;&gt; own mixer, etc. and plug back =
in.&nbsp;=20
Is there an easy-ish workaround for<BR>&gt;&gt; adding a microphone =
(which=20
would, by necessity, require a means of <BR>&gt;&gt; =
switching<BR>&gt;&gt;=20
between mic/inst/both ?)&nbsp; I guess this question applies to many=20
more<BR>&gt;&gt; products than the Boomerang, as well, since this would =
bring=20
many more<BR>&gt;&gt; products into possible =
contention.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;=20
Thank you to everybody for any advice you can =
give.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;=20
________________________________<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; From: Joshua =
&amp;=20
Jennifer Easley [mailto:j.easley@msn.com]<BR>&gt;&gt; Sent: Tuesday, =
September=20
02, 2008 8:42 AM<BR>&gt;&gt; To: </FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: New Member - Buying Advice and Opinions=20
Sought<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Hi =
Rob,<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Have=20
you looked at the Digitech JamMan? it has both instrument and =
mic<BR>&gt;&gt;=20
inputs (presumably you can use them both at the same), and can also be=20
<BR>&gt;&gt; used<BR>&gt;&gt; as an interface for computer recording.=20
<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; The same is true of the GNX4, which may be an =
even=20
better solution if you<BR>&gt;&gt; want to incorporate effects and amp =
models=20
into your loops (i.e. make your<BR>&gt;&gt; acoustic sound like an =
electric).=20
The GNX4 has an integrated "JamMan"<BR>&gt;&gt; looper, different from =
the=20
above, but in a way better, because with it you<BR>&gt;&gt; can lay down =
up to 8=20
mono loop tracks (or 4 stereo), and then disengage or<BR>&gt;&gt; =
re-engage them=20
by pressing the corresponding track buttons. (For example, <BR>&gt;&gt;=20
if<BR>&gt;&gt; on track 1 you record guitar, vocals on track 2, and some =
sort of=20
rhythym <BR>&gt;&gt; on<BR>&gt;&gt; track 3, then, for variation, you =
can press=20
buttons 1 &amp; 2 to silence them,<BR>&gt;&gt; leaving only the third =
track=20
playing; if you press the same buttons again<BR>&gt;&gt; tracks 1 &amp; =
2 will=20
start playing again.)<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; I used the GNX for several =
years=20
before upgrading to an Echoplex (probably<BR>&gt;&gt; #1 of the "big =
three" that=20
you referred to). The former has the advantage <BR>&gt;&gt; =
of<BR>&gt;&gt; being=20
really easy to use, so it's obviously a good way to start. I like =
it<BR>&gt;&gt;=20
too (and still use it in my live setup) because it's literally an all in =

<BR>&gt;&gt; one<BR>&gt;&gt; device, thus simplifying the whole =
potentially=20
complicated routing issue. <BR>&gt;&gt; .<BR>&gt;&gt; =
<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;=20
--Joshua<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; ----- Original Message =
-----=20
<BR>&gt;&gt; From: "Rob "Bodhi" Wolff" &lt;</FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:Bodhiwolff@comcast.net"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>Bodhiwolff@comcast.net</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>&gt;&gt;=20
&lt;</FONT><A href=3D"mailto:Bodhiwolff@comcast.net"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>mailto:Bodhiwolff@comcast.net</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>&gt;=20
&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; To: &lt;</FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>&gt;&gt; &lt;</FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com</FONT></A><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 2:34=20
AM<BR>&gt;&gt; Subject: New Member - Buying Advice and Opinions=20
Sought<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi=20
all!<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; I'm a new member to the list, and =
I'm=20
looking to expand my musical style<BR>&gt;&gt; by<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; =
getting into=20
looping.&nbsp; However, I find that my lack of knowledge =
and<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
experience with the equipment is hampering my decision-making process,=20
<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; and<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; I'm hoping that you all might be =
able to=20
guide me a little.<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; I hope I'm not =
breaking any=20
etiquette by asking for purchasing advice. <BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; =
If<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
so, please simply ignore my newbie =
mistake.<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; I've=20
tried reading up on the various products, and I tried reading=20
the<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; reviews up on this site, but frankly I am still =
mostly in=20
the dark. <BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Heck,<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; people keep referring =
to the=20
"big three", and I'm still not sure which<BR>&gt;&gt; =
three<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
they're referring to!<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; While I'd =
appreciate any=20
reading lists or advice for suggested reading <BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
you<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; wish to give, I really think that I'm just going to =
need to=20
trust the<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; experts at some =
point.<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
So I thought I'd just come out and ask you what you thought I should=20
pick<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; up, specifically, for my particular=20
requirements.<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; My needs:&nbsp; I play =
almost=20
exclusively live, acoustic guitar and vocals at<BR>&gt;&gt; =
the<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
same time, and would want to loop either guitar or vocals or both=20
(or<BR>&gt;&gt; other<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; instruments through the =
mike).&nbsp; As a=20
live player, I'd need something<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; portable, small, easy to =
set up,=20
etc. (a rack-mounted unit is probably<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; inappropriate) and =
my=20
hands will be unavailable while playing, as a<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; =
guitarist.&nbsp;=20
The loops would need to be at least the length of an =
entire<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
verse/chorus combination, so that could run up to 1 minute or =
more.&nbsp; As=20
a<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; live acoustic instrumentalist, it'd be nice if the =
sound=20
quality was as<BR>&gt;&gt; high<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; as possible, and if =
there was=20
little-to-no hiss from the looping unit.<BR>&gt;&gt; =
It'd<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; be=20
nice to save a decent loop after the fact (off the unit onto =
a<BR>&gt;&gt;=20
recording<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; medium of some sort) but this is far secondary =
to=20
decent live <BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; performance.<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Ease-of-use is =
a=20
bonus, but I'm expecting a learning curve.&nbsp; However, =
<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
that<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; being said, the ability to remove the last layer =
(if a=20
mistake was made,<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; 'cause I make 'em!) would be a big =
plus!&nbsp;=20
Simple effects would be nice,<BR>&gt;&gt; too,<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; as I own =
no=20
effects pedals (and feel free to make suggestions there if =
<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
you<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; feel they would enhance things).&nbsp; I'd want to =
loop both=20
guitar and vocal<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; lines at various times, perhaps even =
looping=20
multiple different loops and<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; playing them in synch, or =
in=20
sequence.<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; I looked at the new Boomerang =
III=20
specs on a friends' advice, and from<BR>&gt;&gt; what<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; I =
could=20
make of it, it seemed that it only loops one input (so I =
could<BR>&gt;&gt;=20
only<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; loop the guitar, or the vocals, but not =
both).&nbsp; Of=20
course, I could be<BR>&gt;&gt; wrong,<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; and/or there may =
be a=20
workaround that is commonly used for this drawback<BR>&gt;&gt;=20
(if<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; this is a common state of affairs for many looping=20
pedals).<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; I'm extremely interested in =
moving=20
forward with this project, but sadly I<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; just seem to have =
run=20
into an informational wall that I can't seem to<BR>&gt;&gt;=20
break.<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; So please, if you have a moment, =
feel=20
free to share any advice, thoughts,<BR>&gt;&gt; or<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; =
suggestions=20
that you wish.&nbsp; And frankly, if you simpy want to come out =
<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
and<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; say "I'd suggest buying Such-and-such" then that is =
fine by=20
me!<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Thank you kindly for your=20
consideration.<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
Sincerely,<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Rob "Bodhi"=20
Wolff<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; =
<BR>&gt;=20
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------<BR>&gt;=20
<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; No virus found in this incoming =
message.<BR>&gt;=20
Checked by AVG - </FONT><A href=3D"http://www.avg.com"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>http://www.avg.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>&gt; Version:=20
8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.15/1648 - Release Date: 9/2/2008 =
<BR>&gt; 5:29=20
PM<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Subject: Re: Mobius & Live...why
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 18:13:52 +0200
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Zoe Keating works with Live and SooperLooper using MIDI scenes, so she 
avoids to dancing
on the buttons of the footpedal.
Looks into the archive and you'll find some posts from Zoe about her looping 
approach.
In these days, I'm making some tests about the same techcnic applied to 
Mobius running inside Bidule and i've got some interesting results.
I don't use Live for looping...maybe in the future when Mobius will be 
available for Mac.
But what you're talking about is definitively possible (and useful).


Fabio
www.eterogeneo.com
www.myspace.com/eterogeneo


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "George Ludwig" <sfmissionman@yahoo.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: Mobius & Live...why


> Thanks for the insight. I also have Live Lite that came with my Digi 002R, 
> but I don't want to use the 002R for live gigs. So I'm going to have to 
> upgrade, and I'm trying to decide if I should spring for the full version 
> or if LE is enough. I've already got ProTools and Sonar, so I don't think 
> I need another DAW. But you never know. I'm currently using the Live eval 
> with a MOTU 828.
>
> Since I first posted this message, I had another thought about Live and 
> Mobius. If you're using a MIDI foot controller, you can record both your 
> linear audio as well as MIDI input, and as such can play back a looping 
> performance by routing the real time linear audio as well as the MIDI 
> commands back in to Mobius. That would enable you to do things like fix 
> minor mistakes in the audio, or better adjust things like feedback and 
> volume in the MIDI data stream, and then re-render the looping 
> performance.
>
> I wonder if ayone is actually doing this?
>
>
>
> --- On Tue, 9/2/08, sine@zerocrossing.net <sine@zerocrossing.net> wrote:
>
>> From: sine@zerocrossing.net <sine@zerocrossing.net>
>> Subject: Re: Mobius & Live...why
>> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>> Date: Tuesday, September 2, 2008, 3:17 PM
>> I initially got Live "Lite" with my audio
>> interface and I thought it might
>> be a cool way to do a live show sans instruments.  Kind of
>> "DJ" my own
>> music by pre-recording loops and then kind of reconstitute
>> them.
>>
>> BORING.  To me at least.  People seemed to like it but I
>> felt like I was
>> checking my email and not making music.
>>
>> So then when I started using Mobius I really wanted to use
>> VST instruments
>> and effects as well.  Live was a good choice because I
>> could just upgrade
>> from the Lite version.  It's also ubiquitous so almost
>> all commercial plug
>> ins are tested so they work in it.  Also, it's easy to
>> use.  Bidule seems
>> super powerful, but most of it I don't need.  I like to
>> keep that kind of
>> complexity away from me in the looping process.
>>
>> Also, one of the things I love about Live is that I can
>> make automation
>> loops that are a lot longer than my audio loops.  This is
>> great for
>> applying an effect that changes over a very long time
>> period.
>>
>> Basically I use 20% of what Live is good for, but it's
>> nice to know that I
>> have it for the future and in the mean time I have a great
>> little
>> instrument and looper set up that's stable.
>>
>> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
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> 02/09/2008 17.29
>
> 

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Message-ID: <001701c90de5$03034e70$0202a8c0@YOUR08D5303051>
From: "Jeff Duke" <jeff_d@embarqmail.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
References: <000901c90cdf$17f285a0$6401a8c0@wolffshookmain> <BLU136-DAV8E544C56B98BB2A703CBC865F0@phx.gbl> <000101c90d2d$35295380$6401a8c0@wolffshookmain> <002201c90d71$708575f0$0202a8c0@YOUR08D5303051> <BLU136-DAV656D91C539EEA80D90565865E0@phx.gbl>
Subject: Re: New Member - Buying Advice and Opinions Sought
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 12:49:19 -0400
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I knew I was on dangerous ground there, hence the IMO. All I mean is =
that I can't create multipart on the fly improv loops live because of =
the need to stop and save before moving to a different loop. As far as =
saved loops yes you can seamlessy go back and forth. I suppose that I =
could save blank loops of varying lengths if my timing was that good. I =
think that it was designed to allow pre recording of backing tracks. As =
these can be used in a "live " situation for accompaniment I suppose it =
can be called a live looper (arrrgh). It does say on it that it is a =
"Looper/Phrase Sampler". I am an old school type looper sort who learned =
on long delays that could fade out and mutate into new things on the fly =
so perhaps I don't really grasp the concept well.=20
I do wholeheartedly agree that the Jamman is a great practice tool. When =
I teach basic guitar to friends I love to have them record their own =
rhythms to jam with. It really opens it up for them.
Looper/Phrase Sampler? It seems to me there is a big difference. I just =
can't put my finger on it.

onward through the fog,
                                           Jeff

----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Joshua & Jennifer Easley=20
  To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 11:38 AM
  Subject: Re: New Member - Buying Advice and Opinions Sought





  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: "Jeff Duke" <jeff_d@embarqmail.com>
  To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
  Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 8:02 PM
  Subject: Re: New Member - Buying Advice and Opinions Sought


  > That is correct, the digi jamman is designed to pre record your =
backing=20
  > tracks. Its not a live looper IMO. its a phrase sampler.=20

  It's both a phrase sampler and a live looper. Just because it doesn't =
jump seamlessly between loops doesn't mean that it can't be used live, =
or that it wasn't "designed" to; it just means that the loop itself is a =
static, one way sort of thing. . . an obvious limitation when comparing =
it to other loopers, but still useful in its own way, esp. for beginners =
. . .



  > From: "Rob "Bodhi" Wolff" <Bodhiwolff@comcast.net>
  > To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
  > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 2:53 PM
  > Subject: RE: New Member - Buying Advice and Opinions Sought
  >=20
  >=20
  >> Thank you for the suggestion!
  >>
  >> The only issue I might have with the JamMan is that, while on paper =
it
  >> appears that you can have up to 99 loops, it appears that you must =
stop
  >> playback and store each loop before moving to a new one, or your =
work is
  >> erased.  Thus, working live wouldn't work, as you'd only ever be =
working
  >> with a single loop, being unable to stop playback and store.  Or =
rather,
  >> live work reduces the JamMan to a single-loop device, if you see =
what I
  >> mean.
  >>
  >> However, I could be mis-reading the documentation.  Please correct =
me if=20
  >> I'm
  >> wrong.
  >>
  >> If anybody has any experience working with the JamMan, I'd =
appreciate
  >> hearing your opinions.
  >>
  >> //////////////
  >>
  >> I still keep looking at the Boomerang III (which I know isn't out =
yet) but
  >> the lack of microphone is a deal-breaker for me.  I'm often working =
with
  >> somebody else's setup (with their show) so I couldn't simply bring =
along=20
  >> my
  >> own mixer, etc. and plug back in.  Is there an easy-ish workaround =
for
  >> adding a microphone (which would, by necessity, require a means of=20
  >> switching
  >> between mic/inst/both ?)  I guess this question applies to many =
more
  >> products than the Boomerang, as well, since this would bring many =
more
  >> products into possible contention.
  >>
  >> Thank you to everybody for any advice you can give.
  >>
  >> ________________________________
  >>
  >> From: Joshua & Jennifer Easley [mailto:j.easley@msn.com]
  >> Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 8:42 AM
  >> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
  >> Subject: Re: New Member - Buying Advice and Opinions Sought
  >>
  >>
  >> Hi Rob,
  >>
  >> Have you looked at the Digitech JamMan? it has both instrument and =
mic
  >> inputs (presumably you can use them both at the same), and can also =
be=20
  >> used
  >> as an interface for computer recording.=20
  >>
  >> The same is true of the GNX4, which may be an even better solution =
if you
  >> want to incorporate effects and amp models into your loops (i.e. =
make your
  >> acoustic sound like an electric). The GNX4 has an integrated =
"JamMan"
  >> looper, different from the above, but in a way better, because with =
it you
  >> can lay down up to 8 mono loop tracks (or 4 stereo), and then =
disengage or
  >> re-engage them by pressing the corresponding track buttons. (For =
example,=20
  >> if
  >> on track 1 you record guitar, vocals on track 2, and some sort of =
rhythym=20
  >> on
  >> track 3, then, for variation, you can press buttons 1 & 2 to =
silence them,
  >> leaving only the third track playing; if you press the same buttons =
again
  >> tracks 1 & 2 will start playing again.)
  >>
  >> I used the GNX for several years before upgrading to an Echoplex =
(probably
  >> #1 of the "big three" that you referred to). The former has the =
advantage=20
  >> of
  >> being really easy to use, so it's obviously a good way to start. I =
like it
  >> too (and still use it in my live setup) because it's literally an =
all in=20
  >> one
  >> device, thus simplifying the whole potentially complicated routing =
issue.=20
  >> .
  >>=20
  >>
  >> --Joshua
  >>
  >>
  >> ----- Original Message -----=20
  >> From: "Rob "Bodhi" Wolff" <Bodhiwolff@comcast.net
  >> <mailto:Bodhiwolff@comcast.net> >
  >> To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
  >> <mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com> >
  >> Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 2:34 AM
  >> Subject: New Member - Buying Advice and Opinions Sought
  >>
  >>
  >>> Hi all!
  >>>
  >>> I'm a new member to the list, and I'm looking to expand my musical =
style
  >> by
  >>> getting into looping.  However, I find that my lack of knowledge =
and
  >>> experience with the equipment is hampering my decision-making =
process,=20
  >>> and
  >>> I'm hoping that you all might be able to guide me a little.
  >>>
  >>> I hope I'm not breaking any etiquette by asking for purchasing =
advice.=20
  >>> If
  >>> so, please simply ignore my newbie mistake.
  >>>
  >>> I've tried reading up on the various products, and I tried reading =
the
  >>> reviews up on this site, but frankly I am still mostly in the =
dark.=20
  >>> Heck,
  >>> people keep referring to the "big three", and I'm still not sure =
which
  >> three
  >>> they're referring to!
  >>>
  >>> While I'd appreciate any reading lists or advice for suggested =
reading=20
  >>> you
  >>> wish to give, I really think that I'm just going to need to trust =
the
  >>> experts at some point.
  >>>
  >>> So I thought I'd just come out and ask you what you thought I =
should pick
  >>> up, specifically, for my particular requirements.
  >>>
  >>> My needs:  I play almost exclusively live, acoustic guitar and =
vocals at
  >> the
  >>> same time, and would want to loop either guitar or vocals or both =
(or
  >> other
  >>> instruments through the mike).  As a live player, I'd need =
something
  >>> portable, small, easy to set up, etc. (a rack-mounted unit is =
probably
  >>> inappropriate) and my hands will be unavailable while playing, as =
a
  >>> guitarist.  The loops would need to be at least the length of an =
entire
  >>> verse/chorus combination, so that could run up to 1 minute or =
more.  As a
  >>> live acoustic instrumentalist, it'd be nice if the sound quality =
was as
  >> high
  >>> as possible, and if there was little-to-no hiss from the looping =
unit.
  >> It'd
  >>> be nice to save a decent loop after the fact (off the unit onto a
  >> recording
  >>> medium of some sort) but this is far secondary to decent live=20
  >>> performance.
  >>> Ease-of-use is a bonus, but I'm expecting a learning curve.  =
However,=20
  >>> that
  >>> being said, the ability to remove the last layer (if a mistake was =
made,
  >>> 'cause I make 'em!) would be a big plus!  Simple effects would be =
nice,
  >> too,
  >>> as I own no effects pedals (and feel free to make suggestions =
there if=20
  >>> you
  >>> feel they would enhance things).  I'd want to loop both guitar and =
vocal
  >>> lines at various times, perhaps even looping multiple different =
loops and
  >>> playing them in synch, or in sequence.
  >>>
  >>> I looked at the new Boomerang III specs on a friends' advice, and =
from
  >> what
  >>> I could make of it, it seemed that it only loops one input (so I =
could
  >> only
  >>> loop the guitar, or the vocals, but not both).  Of course, I could =
be
  >> wrong,
  >>> and/or there may be a workaround that is commonly used for this =
drawback
  >> (if
  >>> this is a common state of affairs for many looping pedals).
  >>>
  >>> I'm extremely interested in moving forward with this project, but =
sadly I
  >>> just seem to have run into an informational wall that I can't seem =
to
  >> break.
  >>>
  >>> So please, if you have a moment, feel free to share any advice, =
thoughts,
  >> or
  >>> suggestions that you wish.  And frankly, if you simpy want to come =
out=20
  >>> and
  >>> say "I'd suggest buying Such-and-such" then that is fine by me!
  >>>
  >>> Thank you kindly for your consideration.
  >>>
  >>> Sincerely,
  >>>
  >>> Rob "Bodhi" Wolff
  >>>
  >>>
  >>
  >=20
  >=20
  > =
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------
  >=20
  >=20
  >=20
  > No virus found in this incoming message.
  > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
  > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.15/1648 - Release Date: =
9/2/2008=20
  > 5:29 PM
  >=20
  >


-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----



  No virus found in this incoming message.
  Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com=20
  Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.15/1649 - Release Date: =
9/3/2008 7:15 AM

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I knew I was on dangerous ground there, =
hence the=20
</FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>IMO. All I mean is that I can't =
create multipart=20
on the fly improv loops live because of the need to stop and save before =
moving=20
to a different loop. As far as saved loops yes you can seamlessy go back =
and=20
forth. I suppose that I could save blank loops of varying lengths if my =
timing=20
was that good. I think that it was designed to allow pre recording of =
backing=20
tracks. As these can be used in a "live " situation for accompaniment I =
suppose=20
it can be called a live looper (arrrgh). It does say on it that it is a=20
"Looper/Phrase Sampler".&nbsp;I am an old school type looper sort who =
learned on=20
long delays that could fade out and mutate into new things on the fly so =
perhaps=20
I don't really grasp the concept well. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I do wholeheartedly agree that the =
Jamman is a=20
great practice tool. When I teach basic guitar to friends I love to have =
them=20
record their own rhythms to jam with. It really opens it up for=20
them.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Looper/Phrase Sampler? It seems to me =
there is a=20
big difference. I just can't put my finger on it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>onward through the fog,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Jeff</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dj.easley@msn.com href=3D"mailto:j.easley@msn.com">Joshua =
&amp; Jennifer=20
  Easley</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  title=3DLoopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@loope=
rs-delight.com</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, September 03, =
2008 11:38=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: New Member - =
Buying Advice=20
  and Opinions Sought</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>----- Original Message ----- </FONT>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>From: "Jeff Duke" &lt;</FONT><A=20
  href=3D"mailto:jeff_d@embarqmail.com"><FONT face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2>jeff_d@embarqmail.com</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2>&gt;</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>To: &lt;</FONT><A=20
  href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com"><FONT face=3DArial =

  size=3D2>Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com</FONT></A><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2>&gt;</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 =
8:02=20
  PM</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Subject: Re: New Member - Buying =
Advice and=20
  Opinions Sought</FONT></DIV></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial><BR><FONT size=3D2></FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&gt; That is correct, the digi jamman =
is designed=20
  to pre record your backing <BR>&gt; tracks. Its not a live looper IMO. =
its a=20
  phrase sampler. </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>It's both a phrase sampler and a live looper. =
Just=20
  because it doesn't jump seamlessly between loops doesn't mean that=20
  it&nbsp;can't be used&nbsp;live, or that it wasn't "designed" to; it =
just=20
  means that&nbsp;the loop itself is&nbsp;a static, one way sort of =
thing. . .=20
  an obvious limitation when comparing it to other loopers, but still =
useful in=20
  its own way, esp. for beginners . . .</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&gt; From: "Rob "Bodhi" Wolff" =
&lt;</FONT><A=20
  href=3D"mailto:Bodhiwolff@comcast.net"><FONT face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2>Bodhiwolff@comcast.net</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
  To: &lt;</FONT><A =
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com"><FONT=20
  face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com</FONT></A><FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D2>&gt;<BR>&gt; Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 =
2:53=20
  PM<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: New Member - Buying Advice and Opinions =
Sought<BR>&gt;=20
  <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Thank you for the =
suggestion!<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;=20
  The only issue I might have with the JamMan is that, while on paper=20
  it<BR>&gt;&gt; appears that you can have up to 99 loops, it appears =
that you=20
  must stop<BR>&gt;&gt; playback and store each loop before moving to a =
new one,=20
  or your work is<BR>&gt;&gt; erased.&nbsp; Thus, working live wouldn't =
work, as=20
  you'd only ever be working<BR>&gt;&gt; with a single loop, being =
unable to=20
  stop playback and store.&nbsp; Or rather,<BR>&gt;&gt; live work =
reduces the=20
  JamMan to a single-loop device, if you see what I<BR>&gt;&gt;=20
  mean.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; However, I could be mis-reading the=20
  documentation.&nbsp; Please correct me if <BR>&gt;&gt; I'm<BR>&gt;&gt; =

  wrong.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; If anybody has any experience working =
with the=20
  JamMan, I'd appreciate<BR>&gt;&gt; hearing your=20
  opinions.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; =
//////////////<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; I=20
  still keep looking at the Boomerang III (which I know isn't out yet)=20
  but<BR>&gt;&gt; the lack of microphone is a deal-breaker for me.&nbsp; =
I'm=20
  often working with<BR>&gt;&gt; somebody else's setup (with their show) =
so I=20
  couldn't simply bring along <BR>&gt;&gt; my<BR>&gt;&gt; own mixer, =
etc. and=20
  plug back in.&nbsp; Is there an easy-ish workaround for<BR>&gt;&gt; =
adding a=20
  microphone (which would, by necessity, require a means of <BR>&gt;&gt; =

  switching<BR>&gt;&gt; between mic/inst/both ?)&nbsp; I guess this =
question=20
  applies to many more<BR>&gt;&gt; products than the Boomerang, as well, =
since=20
  this would bring many more<BR>&gt;&gt; products into possible=20
  contention.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Thank you to everybody for any =
advice you=20
  can give.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;=20
  ________________________________<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; From: Joshua =
&amp;=20
  Jennifer Easley [mailto:j.easley@msn.com]<BR>&gt;&gt; Sent: Tuesday, =
September=20
  02, 2008 8:42 AM<BR>&gt;&gt; To: </FONT><A=20
  href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com"><FONT face=3DArial =

  size=3D2>Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2>&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: New Member - Buying Advice and Opinions =

  Sought<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Hi =
Rob,<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;=20
  Have you looked at the Digitech JamMan? it has both instrument and=20
  mic<BR>&gt;&gt; inputs (presumably you can use them both at the same), =
and can=20
  also be <BR>&gt;&gt; used<BR>&gt;&gt; as an interface for computer =
recording.=20
  <BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; The same is true of the GNX4, which may be an =
even=20
  better solution if you<BR>&gt;&gt; want to incorporate effects and amp =
models=20
  into your loops (i.e. make your<BR>&gt;&gt; acoustic sound like an =
electric).=20
  The GNX4 has an integrated "JamMan"<BR>&gt;&gt; looper, different from =
the=20
  above, but in a way better, because with it you<BR>&gt;&gt; can lay =
down up to=20
  8 mono loop tracks (or 4 stereo), and then disengage or<BR>&gt;&gt; =
re-engage=20
  them by pressing the corresponding track buttons. (For example, =
<BR>&gt;&gt;=20
  if<BR>&gt;&gt; on track 1 you record guitar, vocals on track 2, and =
some sort=20
  of rhythym <BR>&gt;&gt; on<BR>&gt;&gt; track 3, then, for variation, =
you can=20
  press buttons 1 &amp; 2 to silence them,<BR>&gt;&gt; leaving only the =
third=20
  track playing; if you press the same buttons again<BR>&gt;&gt; tracks =
1 &amp;=20
  2 will start playing again.)<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; I used the GNX =
for=20
  several years before upgrading to an Echoplex (probably<BR>&gt;&gt; #1 =
of the=20
  "big three" that you referred to). The former has the advantage =
<BR>&gt;&gt;=20
  of<BR>&gt;&gt; being really easy to use, so it's obviously a good way =
to=20
  start. I like it<BR>&gt;&gt; too (and still use it in my live setup) =
because=20
  it's literally an all in <BR>&gt;&gt; one<BR>&gt;&gt; device, thus =
simplifying=20
  the whole potentially complicated routing issue. <BR>&gt;&gt; =
.<BR>&gt;&gt;=20
  <BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; --Joshua<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; =
-----=20
  Original Message ----- <BR>&gt;&gt; From: "Rob "Bodhi" Wolff" =
&lt;</FONT><A=20
  href=3D"mailto:Bodhiwolff@comcast.net"><FONT face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2>Bodhiwolff@comcast.net</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>&gt;&gt;=20
  &lt;</FONT><A href=3D"mailto:Bodhiwolff@comcast.net"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2>mailto:Bodhiwolff@comcast.net</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>&gt;=20
  &gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; To: &lt;</FONT><A=20
  href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com"><FONT face=3DArial =

  size=3D2>Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2>&gt;&gt; &lt;</FONT><A=20
  href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com"><FONT face=3DArial =

  size=3D2>mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com</FONT></A><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 2:34=20
  AM<BR>&gt;&gt; Subject: New Member - Buying Advice and Opinions=20
  Sought<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi=20
  all!<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; I'm a new member to the list, and =
I'm=20
  looking to expand my musical style<BR>&gt;&gt; by<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; =
getting into=20
  looping.&nbsp; However, I find that my lack of knowledge =
and<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
  experience with the equipment is hampering my decision-making process, =

  <BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; and<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; I'm hoping that you all might be =
able to=20
  guide me a little.<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; I hope I'm not =
breaking any=20
  etiquette by asking for purchasing advice. <BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; =
If<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
  so, please simply ignore my newbie =
mistake.<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
  I've tried reading up on the various products, and I tried reading=20
  the<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; reviews up on this site, but frankly I am still =
mostly in=20
  the dark. <BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Heck,<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; people keep referring =
to the=20
  "big three", and I'm still not sure which<BR>&gt;&gt; =
three<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
  they're referring to!<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; While I'd =
appreciate any=20
  reading lists or advice for suggested reading <BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
  you<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; wish to give, I really think that I'm just going =
to need=20
  to trust the<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; experts at some=20
  point.<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; So I thought I'd just come out =
and ask=20
  you what you thought I should pick<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; up, specifically, =
for my=20
  particular requirements.<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; My =
needs:&nbsp; I=20
  play almost exclusively live, acoustic guitar and vocals =
at<BR>&gt;&gt;=20
  the<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; same time, and would want to loop either guitar or =
vocals=20
  or both (or<BR>&gt;&gt; other<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; instruments through the=20
  mike).&nbsp; As a live player, I'd need something<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; =
portable,=20
  small, easy to set up, etc. (a rack-mounted unit is =
probably<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
  inappropriate) and my hands will be unavailable while playing, as=20
  a<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; guitarist.&nbsp; The loops would need to be at least =
the=20
  length of an entire<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; verse/chorus combination, so that =
could=20
  run up to 1 minute or more.&nbsp; As a<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; live acoustic=20
  instrumentalist, it'd be nice if the sound quality was as<BR>&gt;&gt;=20
  high<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; as possible, and if there was little-to-no hiss =
from the=20
  looping unit.<BR>&gt;&gt; It'd<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; be nice to save a =
decent loop=20
  after the fact (off the unit onto a<BR>&gt;&gt; =
recording<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
  medium of some sort) but this is far secondary to decent live =
<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
  performance.<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Ease-of-use is a bonus, but I'm expecting =
a=20
  learning curve.&nbsp; However, <BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; that<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; =
being=20
  said, the ability to remove the last layer (if a mistake was=20
  made,<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; 'cause I make 'em!) would be a big plus!&nbsp; =
Simple=20
  effects would be nice,<BR>&gt;&gt; too,<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; as I own no =
effects=20
  pedals (and feel free to make suggestions there if <BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
  you<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; feel they would enhance things).&nbsp; I'd want to =
loop=20
  both guitar and vocal<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; lines at various times, perhaps =
even=20
  looping multiple different loops and<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; playing them in =
synch, or=20
  in sequence.<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; I looked at the new =
Boomerang III=20
  specs on a friends' advice, and from<BR>&gt;&gt; what<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; =
I could=20
  make of it, it seemed that it only loops one input (so I =
could<BR>&gt;&gt;=20
  only<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; loop the guitar, or the vocals, but not =
both).&nbsp; Of=20
  course, I could be<BR>&gt;&gt; wrong,<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; and/or there may =
be a=20
  workaround that is commonly used for this drawback<BR>&gt;&gt;=20
  (if<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; this is a common state of affairs for many looping =

  pedals).<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; I'm extremely interested in =
moving=20
  forward with this project, but sadly I<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; just seem to =
have run=20
  into an informational wall that I can't seem to<BR>&gt;&gt;=20
  break.<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; So please, if you have a =
moment, feel=20
  free to share any advice, thoughts,<BR>&gt;&gt; or<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; =
suggestions=20
  that you wish.&nbsp; And frankly, if you simpy want to come out=20
  <BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; and<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; say "I'd suggest buying =
Such-and-such"=20
  then that is fine by me!<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Thank you =
kindly for=20
  your consideration.<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
  Sincerely,<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Rob "Bodhi"=20
  Wolff<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; =
<BR>&gt;=20
  =
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------<BR>&gt;=20
  <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; No virus found in this incoming =
message.<BR>&gt;=20
  Checked by AVG - </FONT><A href=3D"http://www.avg.com"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2>http://www.avg.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>&gt; Version:=20
  8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.15/1648 - Release Date: 9/2/2008 =
<BR>&gt; 5:29=20
  PM<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;</FONT></DIV>
  <P>
  <HR>

  <P></P><BR>No virus found in this incoming message.<BR>Checked by AVG =
-=20
  http://www.avg.com <BR>Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: =
270.6.15/1649 -=20
  Release Date: 9/3/2008 7:15 AM<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Sep  3 16:50:02 2008
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To: "Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com"
	<Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 11:49:58 -0500
Subject: RE: OT reducing your carbon footprint
Thread-Topic: OT reducing your carbon footprint
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> Why is it that conservatives (Fox News) don't want to conserve
> anything (except maybe archaic social taboos)?
> Why is the Right nearly always wrong?

You know, I hate it when otherwise productive debate devolves into
polarizing nonsense like this.  In my experience there is a
staggering amount of idiocy on both "sides".

Bill O'Reilly and Michael Moore are the same to me.  They spin the
facts and pander to their receptive audiences that like to have their
opinions spoon-fed to them.  I personally don't find that the
solutions to the world's problems fall cleanly into two sides.  Maybe
that's because I like to make my own opinions rather than buying them
from someone else.

Do you honestly think people on what Americans call the "right" don't
care about the future?  Do you think most people on either "side" have
the slightest idea of the economic and environmental consequences of
the government programs they say they want?  We'll all whine about
immigration, outsourcing manufacturing jobs, offshore drilling, and
global warming.  But if the price of Chinese tube socks at Costco goes
up a buck there'll be rioting in the streets.

Having said all that, these are perfectly fine points:

> A simple thing to do to help: stop eating beef, stop supporting the
> beef cattle industry.
> ...
> whenever possible, live more gently and intelligently.

Here is a fascinating article on the beef industry from a few years
ago.  I still eat beef, but I do try to be more aware of where it
comes from.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=3D9C06E5DB153BF932A05750C0A9=
649C8B63

It is sad that we've taken what was once a relatively natural and
self-sustaining process and found a way to make it dependent on oil.
Of course this is also the reason we've got 99 cent "value meals" at
McDonalds.  Every time I go to McDonalds I see plenty of SUV's with
"leftish" bumper stickers on them.  I wonder if they care about
the future?

Jeff

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Sep  3 17:03:50 2008
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References: <000901c90cdf$17f285a0$6401a8c0@wolffshookmain> <BLU136-DAV8E544C56B98BB2A703CBC865F0@phx.gbl> <000101c90d2d$35295380$6401a8c0@wolffshookmain> <002201c90d71$708575f0$0202a8c0@YOUR08D5303051> <BLU136-DAV656D91C539EEA80D90565865E0@phx.gbl> <001701c90de5$03034e70$0202a8c0@YOUR08D5303051>
Subject: RE: New Member - Buying Advice and Opinions Sought
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Thank you all for your advice.  I really appreciated it.

I had it down to the following three --

A) Boomerang with 2-channel Mixer -- not feasible, as the footprint and
extra setup for a mixer would detract from what I need it to do in the way I
need it to work (get up on stage, set up, go quickly)

B) Digitech JamMan - looked great, but realistically when live could only
record one phrase at a time (otherwise would have to stop and save)

C)  Boss Loop Station - expensive and finicky, with a large number of
complaints registered online, and even a known "glitch" that bothers some
people regarding a playback gap.

In the end, I went with the Boss Loop Station, due mostly to the links
provided by members here, and their comments.  In the scant hour I've spent
messing with it, I've already been able to do two tunes that I couldn't do
solo (tough to do a 3-part harmony/bodhran song by yourself -- without a
looping station, that is).

Now to practice!

(yegods, laying down that first track so it repeats nicely, in a timely
regular fashion, is an ART!  ... It took me awhile to figure out that the
tempo light switched red on the FIRST beat ... My brain keeps insisting that
red must be on the FOURTH beat for some reason?!)

If anybody wishes to pass me the links/references on "looping for newbies --
how to lay an initial decent rhythm track in under 20 minutes!" then feel
free to e-mail me privately (so as not to spam the list with my newbie
stuff).

Thank you all again for the advice.  I appreciate it.

From poscard@postcard.org  Wed Sep  3 17:10:11 2008
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<FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman">Hello ,</FONT><BR>
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<FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman">A friend has sent you a Hallmark Ecard</FONT><BR>
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Sep  3 17:47:13 2008
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Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 12:47:09 -0500
Subject: RE: Mobius & Live...why
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> I've already got ProTools and Sonar, so I don't think I need
> another DAW.

I don't know about ProTools but Sonar isn't a particularly good host
for looping plugins (or at least wasn't as of versionn 5).  Most DAWs
are designed around the tape deck metaphor where you have to start and
stop the transport and "arm" tracks for recording in order to get
things flowing.  Sonar also had this goofy "audio engine" you had to
turn on and off.

The worst thing about Sonar though is that you couldn't record the
output of an effect plugin into a track in real time.  The thinking is
that effects are always applied at dynamically to a dry signal so you
can change them later.  You can hear the effect as the track is
recording, but what is recorded is the dry signal.  Since Mobius has
to be an effect in Sonar, this means you can't have Sonar record a
Mobius performance.

The nice thing about Live is that was designed for live performance
rather offline editing.  I found it easier to use as a virtual "rack"
where you can combine plugin chains without worrying about recording.

> Since I first posted this message, I had another thought about Live
> and Mobius. If you're using a MIDI foot controller, you can record
> both your linear audio as well as MIDI input, and as such can play
> back a looping performance by routing the real time linear audio as
> well as the MIDI commands back in to Mobius. That would enable you to
> do things like fix minor mistakes in the audio, or better adjust
> things like feedback and volume in the MIDI data stream, and then
> re-render the looping performance.
>
> I wonder if anyone is actually doing this?

I tried this once but due to the slight quantization of MIDI events
I never got back exactly what I performed the first time.  But it may
be close enough depending on what you want.  This is the way you
would have to work in Sonar because it can only record the dry signal.

Jeff

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Sep  3 18:07:41 2008
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bye for now Nico,

and thanks for the music 

see you later
andy butler


Nico Spahni wrote:
> Hi folks
> 
> I'll be gone for a while cause I have so much on my plate right now 
> (plus a second child on its way...). Thanks for all the valuable, 
> stimulating inputs!
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Nico
> 
> www.recpro.ch
> www.myspace.com/nicospahni   
> http://www.jamendo.com/en/artist/Nico_Spahni
> 
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Sep  3 18:10:15 2008
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From: Chris Gaber <fourstrng@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: New Member - Buying Advice and Opinions Sought
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 13:10:14 -0500
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Rob- For learning how to use the Roland I recommend using the Rhythm  
guides and the most simplest ones at that-  unless you actually want  
to use the included beats for your songs.  Doubtful.  And set Guide:  
Play count to 1 meas.  This will give you a count in and some time to  
prepare.  I know you probably wont use the rhythm guide (or count in)  
when you perform but this will get you get you comfortable with  
machine.  And read the manual front to back. Very Important!   Last  
but not least, find and familiarize yourself with all the menus.  The  
Parameter   < and > buttons are your friend. :)  Good luck and email  
privately if you have more questions.

Chris
On Sep 3, 2008, at 12:03 PM, Rob "Bodhi" Wolff wrote:

> Thank you all for your advice.  I really appreciated it.
>
> I had it down to the following three --
>
> A) Boomerang with 2-channel Mixer -- not feasible, as the footprint  
> and
> extra setup for a mixer would detract from what I need it to do in  
> the way I
> need it to work (get up on stage, set up, go quickly)
>
> B) Digitech JamMan - looked great, but realistically when live  
> could only
> record one phrase at a time (otherwise would have to stop and save)
>
> C)  Boss Loop Station - expensive and finicky, with a large number of
> complaints registered online, and even a known "glitch" that  
> bothers some
> people regarding a playback gap.
>
> In the end, I went with the Boss Loop Station, due mostly to the links
> provided by members here, and their comments.  In the scant hour  
> I've spent
> messing with it, I've already been able to do two tunes that I  
> couldn't do
> solo (tough to do a 3-part harmony/bodhran song by yourself --  
> without a
> looping station, that is).
>
> Now to practice!
>
> (yegods, laying down that first track so it repeats nicely, in a  
> timely
> regular fashion, is an ART!  ... It took me awhile to figure out  
> that the
> tempo light switched red on the FIRST beat ... My brain keeps  
> insisting that
> red must be on the FOURTH beat for some reason?!)
>
> If anybody wishes to pass me the links/references on "looping for  
> newbies --
> how to lay an initial decent rhythm track in under 20 minutes!"  
> then feel
> free to e-mail me privately (so as not to spam the list with my newbie
> stuff).
>
> Thank you all again for the advice.  I appreciate it.
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Sep  3 18:13:34 2008
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Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 11:13:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: George Ludwig <sfmissionman@yahoo.com>
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Subject: RE: Mobius & Live...why
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Jeff,

Thanks for the observations on Sonar. What I meant about already having a couple of DAWs is that I'm trying to decide if I should shell out $$ for the full version of Live (i.e. purchase yet another DAW), or if the LE version would be suitable (it's $200 less) for use as a looping host, and I would continue to use Sonar/Protools for traditional audio production.

I'm just trying not to buy more software than I actually need. :)

BTW, I got Mobius working really well last night using Live as the host and a Pok for a controller. It had been a long rough weekend of hardware/software troubleshooting that culminated in a disk reformat and reinstall of XP. Finally I was in looping heaven! 

Next steps...re-investigate Bidule now that I have a computer and audio interface that are working properly. And get MIDI in and out of the GR-20 so I can (hopefully) re-map the controller pedal of the GR-20 to Mobius' volume/feedback. 

-George


--- On Wed, 9/3/08, Jeff Larson <jeff.larson@sailpoint.com> wrote:

> From: Jeff Larson <jeff.larson@sailpoint.com>
> Subject: RE: Mobius & Live...why
> To: "sfmissionman@yahoo.com" <sfmissionman@yahoo.com>, "Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> Date: Wednesday, September 3, 2008, 10:47 AM
> > I've already got ProTools and Sonar, so I don't
> think I need
> > another DAW.
> 
> I don't know about ProTools but Sonar isn't a
> particularly good host
> for looping plugins (or at least wasn't as of versionn
> 5).  Most DAWs
> are designed around the tape deck metaphor where you have
> to start and
> stop the transport and "arm" tracks for recording
> in order to get
> things flowing.  Sonar also had this goofy "audio
> engine" you had to
> turn on and off.
> 
> The worst thing about Sonar though is that you couldn't
> record the
> output of an effect plugin into a track in real time.  The
> thinking is
> that effects are always applied at dynamically to a dry
> signal so you
> can change them later.  You can hear the effect as the
> track is
> recording, but what is recorded is the dry signal.  Since
> Mobius has
> to be an effect in Sonar, this means you can't have
> Sonar record a
> Mobius performance.
> 
> The nice thing about Live is that was designed for live
> performance
> rather offline editing.  I found it easier to use as a
> virtual "rack"
> where you can combine plugin chains without worrying about
> recording.
> 
> > Since I first posted this message, I had another
> thought about Live
> > and Mobius. If you're using a MIDI foot
> controller, you can record
> > both your linear audio as well as MIDI input, and as
> such can play
> > back a looping performance by routing the real time
> linear audio as
> > well as the MIDI commands back in to Mobius. That
> would enable you to
> > do things like fix minor mistakes in the audio, or
> better adjust
> > things like feedback and volume in the MIDI data
> stream, and then
> > re-render the looping performance.
> >
> > I wonder if anyone is actually doing this?
> 
> I tried this once but due to the slight quantization of
> MIDI events
> I never got back exactly what I performed the first time. 
> But it may
> be close enough depending on what you want.  This is the
> way you
> would have to work in Sonar because it can only record the
> dry signal.
> 
> Jeff


      

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Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 14:13:12 -0400
From: "Tony K" <bigtonyk@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Mobius & Live...why
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I have not tried it, but you might be able to use TapeIt
http://www.silverspike.com/?Products:TapeIt
<http://www.silverspike.com/?Products:TapeIt>
at the end of the vst fx chain in a Sonar track to send the output to a
file.  Then import the file to a sonar track.  It's not a nice clean
solution like being able to bounce output from one track to the input of
another, but it may be worth a try.

On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 1:47 PM, Jeff Larson <jeff.larson@sailpoint.com>wrote:

>
> > I've already got ProTools and Sonar, so I don't think I need
> > another DAW.
>
> I don't know about ProTools but Sonar isn't a particularly good host
> for looping plugins (or at least wasn't as of versionn 5).  Most DAWs
> are designed around the tape deck metaphor where you have to start and
> stop the transport and "arm" tracks for recording in order to get
> things flowing.  Sonar also had this goofy "audio engine" you had to
> turn on and off.
>
> The worst thing about Sonar though is that you couldn't record the
> output of an effect plugin into a track in real time.  The thinking is
> that effects are always applied at dynamically to a dry signal so you
> can change them later.  You can hear the effect as the track is
> recording, but what is recorded is the dry signal.  Since Mobius has
> to be an effect in Sonar, this means you can't have Sonar record a
> Mobius performance.
>
> The nice thing about Live is that was designed for live performance
> rather offline editing.  I found it easier to use as a virtual "rack"
> where you can combine plugin chains without worrying about recording.
>
> > Since I first posted this message, I had another thought about Live
> > and Mobius. If you're using a MIDI foot controller, you can record
> > both your linear audio as well as MIDI input, and as such can play
> > back a looping performance by routing the real time linear audio as
> > well as the MIDI commands back in to Mobius. That would enable you to
> > do things like fix minor mistakes in the audio, or better adjust
> > things like feedback and volume in the MIDI data stream, and then
> > re-render the looping performance.
> >
> > I wonder if anyone is actually doing this?
>
> I tried this once but due to the slight quantization of MIDI events
> I never got back exactly what I performed the first time.  But it may
> be close enough depending on what you want.  This is the way you
> would have to work in Sonar because it can only record the dry signal.
>
> Jeff
>
>


-- 
-==-=-=-
Tony

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<div dir="ltr">I have not tried it, but you might be able to use TapeIt&nbsp;<a href="http://www.silverspike.com/?Products:TapeIt">http://www.silverspike.com/?Products:TapeIt&nbsp;</a><div><br></div><div>at the end of the vst fx chain in a Sonar track to send the output to a file. &nbsp;Then import the file to a sonar track. &nbsp;It&#39;s not a nice clean solution like being able to bounce output from one track to the input of another, but it may be worth a try.<br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 1:47 PM, Jeff Larson <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:jeff.larson@sailpoint.com">jeff.larson@sailpoint.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div class="Ih2E3d"><br>
&gt; I&#39;ve already got ProTools and Sonar, so I don&#39;t think I need<br>
&gt; another DAW.<br>
<br>
</div>I don&#39;t know about ProTools but Sonar isn&#39;t a particularly good host<br>
for looping plugins (or at least wasn&#39;t as of versionn 5). &nbsp;Most DAWs<br>
are designed around the tape deck metaphor where you have to start and<br>
stop the transport and &quot;arm&quot; tracks for recording in order to get<br>
things flowing. &nbsp;Sonar also had this goofy &quot;audio engine&quot; you had to<br>
turn on and off.<br>
<br>
The worst thing about Sonar though is that you couldn&#39;t record the<br>
output of an effect plugin into a track in real time. &nbsp;The thinking is<br>
that effects are always applied at dynamically to a dry signal so you<br>
can change them later. &nbsp;You can hear the effect as the track is<br>
recording, but what is recorded is the dry signal. &nbsp;Since Mobius has<br>
to be an effect in Sonar, this means you can&#39;t have Sonar record a<br>
Mobius performance.<br>
<br>
The nice thing about Live is that was designed for live performance<br>
rather offline editing. &nbsp;I found it easier to use as a virtual &quot;rack&quot;<br>
where you can combine plugin chains without worrying about recording.<br>
<div class="Ih2E3d"><br>
&gt; Since I first posted this message, I had another thought about Live<br>
&gt; and Mobius. If you&#39;re using a MIDI foot controller, you can record<br>
&gt; both your linear audio as well as MIDI input, and as such can play<br>
&gt; back a looping performance by routing the real time linear audio as<br>
&gt; well as the MIDI commands back in to Mobius. That would enable you to<br>
&gt; do things like fix minor mistakes in the audio, or better adjust<br>
&gt; things like feedback and volume in the MIDI data stream, and then<br>
&gt; re-render the looping performance.<br>
&gt;<br>
</div>&gt; I wonder if anyone is actually doing this?<br>
<br>
I tried this once but due to the slight quantization of MIDI events<br>
I never got back exactly what I performed the first time. &nbsp;But it may<br>
be close enough depending on what you want. &nbsp;This is the way you<br>
would have to work in Sonar because it can only record the dry signal.<br>
<font color="#888888"><br>
Jeff<br>
<br>
</font></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>-==-=-=- <br>Tony<br>
</div></div>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Sep  3 18:16:51 2008
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Subject: Re: OT reducing your carbon footprint, helping the state you live in
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 11:16:48 -0700
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IMO, the best way to reduce your footprint, for reasons i won't bore  
you with because you know them already...is to NOT BUY ANYTHING NEW

i don't like to preach and chose this for myself for many reasons.  
for example, i stopped buying new clothes (ok, except underwear and  
socks!) many years ago. there's enough in all the used clothing  
stores to keep me going for many lifetimes! and then i just started  
sewing my stage clothes. same for appliances, toasters, vacuum  
cleaners...(except the refridgerator, because old US models are  
shockingly inefficient).  and don't get me started on cars...its more  
"eco" to drive my old VW golf until it falls apart, rather than buy a  
new prius. also, salvaged building materials wherever  
possible...luckily the house is entirely constructed out of redwood  
and stone from the surrounding land.

as for gear....i make an effort to get all my music gear second hand,  
and to learn how to repair stuff. of course, there are items i really  
have to buy new. usually