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Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 21:43:28 -0700
From: Miko Biffle <biffoz@pacbell.net>
Subject: Gig Spam: Mount Madonna - RAMAYANA! Monterey Cal...
To: michellefreak@hotmail.com
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One last gig spam...

Once again I'm honored to be playing guitar in the pit band for this
exciting play put on by the Mount Madonna School in the mountains of Santa
Cruz California. The legendary tale, the Ramayana, of Ram and Sita and their
struggles with the temptations of the world of Maya, and their devotion to
the path of Dharma and service, has been told through the ages in countless
ways.

Mount Madonna, the Hanuman Fellowship and Mount Madonna Choir have performed
numerous versions of the Ramayana yearly, spanning a period of over two
decades. With abilities beyond their years, and a professional production
crew and band, watch the students of the Mount Madonna school cast their
spell on the audience as they re-tell this timeless classic.

I believe Friday and Saturday performances will be around 7:30-ish and the
Sunday performance will be in the early afternoon. Please be sure to come up
and say hello if you attend the performance!

Best regards,
-Miko Biffle
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Mount Madonna School Theater Group presents...

Ramayana!

Performances on June 7,8,9 at the World Theater at Cal State Monterey Bay,
Seaside, CA.

Tickets can be purchased from the World Theater box office: 831.582.4580

Miko Biffle - biffoz@pacbell.net
"Running scared from all the usual distractions!"

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun  1 02:22:42 2002
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Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 23:20:24 -0700
Subject: Gig Spam [Seattle]: Sue Ann Harkey and Tiktok 6/1/02 Polestar
	Music Gallery
From: Travis Hartnett <tiktok@sprintmail.com>
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http://www.seattleimprovisedmusic.com/polestar.html

Polestar Music Gallery
1412 18th Avenue at East Union, Seattle

SATURDAY, JUNE 1, 8 PM, $6, ALL AGES


*    Sue Ann Harkey
*    Tiktok


An evening of gorgeous, exploratory guitar music, with solos and duos from
longtime improvisor Sue Ann Harkey (soon to be departing Seattle) on
prepared electric 12-string and Tiktok on ambient guitar.

Improvising multi-instrumentalist, songwriter, and vocalist Sue Ann Harkey
has been a part of Seattle and New York's underground music and visual arts
scenes for more than two decades. Harkey discovered improvisational music's
power in 1979, when she began playing guitar with friends; this led to her
exploration of the harp-guitar and the 12-string guitar, which she plays
with mallets, bows, plectrums, and rods, and which also feature alternate
tunings and metal discs woven between the strings. By 1980, Harkey had
formed the cassette label/political pamphlet distributor Cityzens for
Non-Linear Futures (CNLF) and the improv group Audio Letter, co-founded by
Harkey and violinist/songwriter Sharon Gannon, featuring Don Cherry and
Dennis Charles among its revolving membership. Hailed as one of the cassette
revolution's most important ensembles, Audio Letter released a prolific
number of tapes through CNLF as well as one album, 1988's It Is This It Is
Not This. Harkey moved to New York in 1983 and became part of that city's
improvisational scene quickly, collaborating with Sue Garner, LaDonna Smith,
Lesli Dalaba, Chris Cochrane, Guy Yarden, and others, many of whom appeared
on her 1989 solo debut, The Ancient Past and the Ancient Future Are Both
Seconds Away. She returned to Seattle in 1992, and in addition to running
her own design/illustration firm, Cactus Bones Studio, she released albums
such as 1997's Fulcrum, which included free jazz players and DJs from the
U.S. and U.K. underground.

Tiktok is the solo work of Travis Hartnett. He performs frequently in the
Seattle area in a solo context and with the Steve Ball Roadshow. Previously
he has worked and performed with Electrochakra, SIL2K, the Electronic Planet
Ensemble, Kinesis DanceTheatre, and Ariel Danceworks.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun  1 02:59:40 2002
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> i noticed that you're playing a 7-string violin??? what's the tuning?

Alas, the 7 string still has problems, and is back at D&H having a few 
modifications. The tuning, from top to bottom is as follows:

E,A,D,G,C,F,Bb

It is in 5ths all the way down to the bottom strings, which itself is 
one tone lower than that of the bottom string of a cello. Its a fun 
instrument, but bloody difficult to find a bottom string that works. :(

> can you describe what you do musically? tonal, non-tonal; improv, 
> written, combination thereof . . .

Its all improv. I close my eyes, clear my mind and just let the music 
flow out like a honey-dewed blend of musical diaoreah (sic?). To be 
quite honest, I dont know how I do it.

I call my music Organic. I have themes that occur a lot through my 
music, but my impro's are never the same twice (I dont have the 
skill/patience to do that), the music changes each time. Its kind of 
like a learning experience....

Bah. Its early. Need coffee :)

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On Saturday, June 1, 2002, at 01:37 AM, M. Steven Ginn wrote:

> Any part of your influence coming from Jean Luc Ponty?  :-)

Erm.... this is embarrassing to say, but I dont actually listen to 
music. Although I know who he is (I have been in correspondance with 
him), apart from a few snippets friends have played me, I have heard 
nothing of his work....

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> First of all, welcome (but I also just joined). I¥m a little bit into 
> street music also, but usually with another pecussionist. How do you 
> manage to use the line 6 out there? with the power and speaker and so 
> on?

The Line6 is easy - I use 4 C cell batteries which last for about 30 
hours in loop sampling mode. The amp that I use is a two piece Audio-One 
unit that was given to me by the owner (pic of my equipment: 
http://www.solostring.com/images/musicora/equipment.jpg). The subwoofer 
goes down to about 20Hz @ 40 watts, and the top unit fills in the mid 
and top @ 80 watts. It runs on its own rechargable batteries for about 8 
hours at full volume.

I used to have a Crate Taxi amplifier. It was great. About 30 watts, 
light(ish) and had a good battery life. 
(http://www.crateamps.com/products/tx/index.htm) - Ooooohhh, they have 
many models now!

I'm thinking of buying a 12V-220V convertor, a high powered motorcycle 
battery and taking the repeater and rack effects onto the 
street.... :)... Anyone else tried something like this? Any problems I 
should watch out for?

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun  1 07:29:08 2002
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Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 05:32:46 -0600
From: Lee Sebel <coolmusic@surfbest.net>
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Hi gang...apologies in advance if anyone feels this is inappropriate,
but I want to make today a memorable one.

Today, June 1, marks the first anniversary of the passing of my
bro-in-law Dave.  He was a huge music fan, and as a tribute to him I
composed a trance track based on the first notes I played after I heard
the
news of his untimely death.

I would really appreciate it if you would help me pay tribute to Dave by

playing the track today.

Here's the song page link...thanks if you can give it a play ,
and feel free to encourage friends and associates to do the same.

http://artists.mp3s.com/artist_song/1619/1619890.html

Thanks as always for your support of my music, and thanks for helping me

pay tribute to Dave.



--
Tonefully yours...

Lee Sebel • Cool Music Gear You Can't Live Without • 888-487-2166
       Representing Innovative Instruments of Impeccable Quality
                  2way Messaging : coolmusic@my2way.com

                   >>> Give a listen to my original music <<<
                               http://www.mp3.com/voltz


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun  1 07:34:17 2002
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Subject: New Spam
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 12:31:59 +0100
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You can thank superonline.com for this one folks.  Apparently they don't
have an abuse address to complain to, nor an English version of the site.  I
get enough spam from this domain that it's worthwhile to block the whole
thing, lacking any viable abuse/webmaster address.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun  1 07:57:43 2002
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Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 07:57:42 -0400
Subject: Re:Acid for Mac
From: Steve Sandberg <stevesandberg@earthlink.net>
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> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

--MS_Mac_OE_3105763062_4490060_MIME_Part
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>is there anything quite as cool as ACID for mac?

Don't know if you have Digital Performer, but the upcoming upgrade to 3.1 is
supposed to do Acid-style looping. 

--MS_Mac_OE_3105763062_4490060_MIME_Part
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<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re:Acid for Mac</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<FONT SIZE=3D"4">&gt;is there anything quite as cool as ACID for mac? <BR>
<BR>
Don't know if you have Digital Performer, but the upcoming upgrade to 3.1 i=
s supposed to do Acid-style looping.</FONT>
</BODY>
</HTML>


--MS_Mac_OE_3105763062_4490060_MIME_Part--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun  1 11:38:11 2002
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Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 10:36:47 -0600
Subject: Re: ACID for Mac
From: Daniel Garfinkel <messiahdan@insightbb.com>
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Thnaks very much


on 5/31/02 11:29 AM, Richard Zvonar at zvonar@zvonar.com wrote:

> At 11:11 AM -0600 5/31/02, Daniel Garfinkel wrote:
>> is there anything quite as cool as ACID for mac? Is there someone who has
>> magicly ported it to mac? OS 9 or Xim going crazy becaus eim broke and im
>> tired of being unable to get anything good for free.
> 
> Check out the latest Electronic Musician for a comparison of seven
> loop sequencers for Mac and PC:
> 
> http://industryclick.com/magazinearticle.asp?magazineid=33&releaseid=10207&mag
> azinearticleid=149006&siteid=15
> 
> Also a review of Ableton Live 1.1:
> 
> http://industryclick.com/magazinearticle.asp?magazineid=33&releaseid=10207&mag
> azinearticleid=149011&siteid=15
> 
> 
> 
> The price of high-performance Mac loopdom is around $300. RadiaL from
> Cycling74 will be about $200, but it hasn't been released yet.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun  1 11:38:35 2002
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Subject: Re: Acid for Mac
From: Daniel Garfinkel <messiahdan@insightbb.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

--MS_Mac_OE_3105772632_2795450_MIME_Part
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Thank you very much, that sounds awesome

on 6/1/02 5:57 AM, Steve Sandberg at stevesandberg@earthlink.net wrote:

>is there anything quite as cool as ACID for mac?

Don't know if you have Digital Performer, but the upcoming upgrade to 3.1 is
supposed to do Acid-style looping.



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<HTML>
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<TITLE>Re: Acid for Mac</TITLE>
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Thank you very much, that sounds awesome<BR>
<BR>
on 6/1/02 5:57 AM, Steve Sandberg at stevesandberg@earthlink.net wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"4">&gt;is there anything quite as cool as ACID for =
mac? <BR>
<BR>
Don't know if you have Digital Performer, but the upcoming upgrade to 3.1 i=
s supposed to do Acid-style looping.</FONT> <BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</BODY>
</HTML>


--MS_Mac_OE_3105772632_2795450_MIME_Part--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun  1 11:44:49 2002
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Subject: Re: Would it be unforgivably crass of me ...
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John,

Congratulations!

In a message dated 5/31/02 6:32:44 PM, just-john@just-john.com writes:

>... if I mentioned here that a couple hours ago I discovered an album of
>mine (with looping content, naturally) made the Canadian college radio
>charts?

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First of all...

Am I the only MONTANAN on the list???

OK:
I am playing EVERY Saturday in June at the Leaf and Bean on main street in 
Bozeman, MT (USA)...

All ages, and it's FREE to the public...

Solo BASS w/ a pair of echoplex... (and a whole lot of other gear...)

I'm sure I'm probably the lone looper here in MT, or at least in the Gallatin 
Valley, but I would love to see someone from the list there!

--part1_134.f245201.2a2a4bb1_boundary
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>First of all...<BR>
<BR>
<B>Am I the only MONTANAN on the list???</B><BR>
<BR>
OK:<BR>
I am playing EVERY Saturday in June at the Leaf and Bean on main street in Bozeman, MT (USA)...<BR>
<BR>
All ages, and it's FREE to the public...<BR>
<BR>
Solo BASS w/ a pair of echoplex... (and a <U>whole</U> <B>lot</B> of other gear...)<BR>
<BR>
I'm sure I'm probably the lone looper here in MT, or at least in the Gallatin Valley, but I would love to see someone from the list there!</FONT></HTML>

--part1_134.f245201.2a2a4bb1_boundary--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun  1 12:44:17 2002
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Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 09:42:38 -0700 (PDT)
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Stig, is that g.e.stinson of shadowfax fame? Bill/las vegas


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun  1 13:17:16 2002
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Congratulations


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "just john" <just-john@just-john.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 3:36 AM
Subject: Would it be unforgivably crass of me ...


> ... if I mentioned here that a couple hours ago I discovered an album of
> mine (with looping content, naturally) made the Canadian college radio
> charts?
> 
> 
> 
> See
> 
> http://www.earshot-online.com/charts/2002/4-200.html
> 
> 
> Scroll down to 127.
> 
> 
> ---
> * just-john@just-john.com  http://just-john.com/cn/rfe.shtml *
> 


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun  1 15:26:40 2002
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Subject: Good mic value from RS....
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The local RS here in Memphis has their percussion mic on sale
for 40% off....under $30.....normally $50.  I think they are about
to be discontinued....
These are knock-offs of Sennheiser's drum mic...I've compared
them with other dynamics (SM57 and others) and they have a
better sound on my djembi and conga.......
--
gary
@friendlyspider.com


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun  1 18:59:57 2002
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on 5/20/02 6:07 AM, Louis Rossi at tarbit@hotmail.com wrote:

> 
> Has anybody checked out the Mbox?
> thanks

I haven't but the reviews have been good -- at least as long as you are
using it with ProTools.

Mark

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  2 03:08:10 2002
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Howdy Hans and others,

armatronix wrote:

> In case anybody in the know is still reading this:  Are presets the proper
> way to drop in and out of quantize?  I notice that there are no DirectMIDI
> commands listed for quantize settings.  Now that I've programmed the PMC-10
> to perform the basic functions, and I'm really digging the unquantized SUS
> functions, I realize that I'd like for HalfSpeed and Reverse to remain
> quantized.  I haven't figured out how to store and recall presets yet, but
> it seems like you could possibly add a preset call to a button press to
> control the quantization of a given function; for example, to have an 8th
> note Replace or a cycle-length Insert. ???

Good plan!  What I'd suggest would be using presets for storing
different combinations of quantize settings (for both general EDP
functions as well as SwitchQuant settings).  You could then try
programming PMC patches where the first string engages a preset via a
program change command, and the second one performs half speed or
reverse via note or CC commands.  Since the half speed or reverse
operation would happen after the preset is engaged, you should be able
to trigger those events in a quantized manner.

Also keep in mind that sus-insert and sus-multiply are available via
MIDI in both rounded and unrounded modes, regardless of the setting of
quantize.  That can be very handy for expanding or contracting the loop
length along cycles, without having to switch in and out of quantize.

And I have to say that quantize=8th plus replace or substitute is one of
the coolest things ever...

OK,

--Andre LaFosse
http://www.altruistmusic.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  2 06:16:31 2002
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hi gang,

jon wagner wrote:

"Welcome!  there's lots of us percussionists here.  There's not a whole lot
of percussion discussion "

just wanted to let you know that I gave a lecture demonstration  the
technology and
uses of looping to the Percussion Arts Society "Day of Percussion"
in Santa Cruz yesterday which seemed to be well recieved.

To my knolwedge, it is the first time that this has been done............I'm
lobbying
to have the international PAS convention have me come and lecture demo at
their
next annual meeting in Columbus, Ohio for this coming November.

I was shocked that in all the electronic percussion presentations this last
year in
Nashville that there wasn't one demo of looping............it was all sample
triggering
with a modicum of sequencing.   The possibilities, as jon well knows and
utilizes so
creatively are myriad for percussionists and looping.

yours,  Rick Walker (loop.pool)

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  2 06:38:16 2002
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Hi guys,

I'm on the search for a large midi pedal board - one that allows CC's 
higher than 96 (like my Roland PC200 - great considering the most 
important Repeater midi changes are above that), with about 25-30 
buttons - preferably stomp-box type.

I remember seeing a picture of one in a magazine a year or so back, but 
I cannot remember the name.

Do any of you have any recommendations?

Cheers :)

- Stu

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  2 06:39:43 2002
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  Howdy,
  Will the new software for the EDP work in my old
  Oberheim EDP? Just a new guy wantin' to know!
  Thanks!
  Chris Olden


_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  2 06:46:42 2002
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Hi again,

I'm currently using my Repeater for live performances, and have at the 
moment a borrowed Roland FC200 midi pedal board. I am controlling the 
repeater using CC codes at the moment, and unfortunately, some of the 
most critical buttons I need to program are higher than #96 - which the 
FC200 does not allow (someone please correct me if I am wrong)

The Repeater also allows Program Change messages to control it, however, 
I can find no way to set up a bank on the FC200 to control the Repeater 
the way that I want to. For example:

Button1-4 - Track Select (PC# 6,7,8,9)
Button 5 - Tap Tempo (PC# 12)
Button 6 - Loop Multiply (PC# 0)
Button 7 - Undo (PC# 1)
Button 8 - Stop (PC# 21)
Button 9 - Play (PC#20)
Button 10 - Record (PC# 4)

etc. etc. etc.

Is it possible to program the pedal board to do this using PC codes? I 
have read the manual over and over again, and have gotten nowhere (I am 
new to Midi).... Am I asking the impossible?

Thanks :)

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  2 08:48:06 2002
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The Behringer FCB1010 will do the trick, I think.  Go to =
www.behringer.de to
find all info.   I have it for a week now, and it's the most powerfull
controller I've had.  And it's really cheap too.

Jan


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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D3>The Behringer=20
FCB1010 will do the trick, I think.&nbsp; Go to </FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://www.behringer.de"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D3>www.behringer.de</FONT></A><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D3>=20
to<BR>find all info.&nbsp;&nbsp; I have it for a week now, and it's the =
most=20
powerfull<BR>controller I've had.&nbsp; And it's really cheap=20
too.<BR><BR>Jan</FONT><BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  2 09:29:46 2002
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Subject: RE: Midi Pedalboard
From: Jeffrey Lomas <jeff.lomas@oasis-open.org>
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I have the FCB1010 also. Nice controller.

On Sun, 2002-06-02 at 07:49, Man In Space wrote:
> The Behringer FCB1010 will do the trick, I think.  Go to www.behringer.de to
> find all info.   I have it for a week now, and it's the most powerfull
> controller I've had.  And it's really cheap too.
> 
> Jan
> 


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  2 12:06:28 2002
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From: BILLYBUDDHA@webtv.net (William Mcallister)
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 09:05:27 -0700 (PDT)
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Fwd: Re: Fw: THIS IS FOR REAL. IT WAS ON THE NEWS LAST NIGHT
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Check this out, someone let me know if this is for real. I dont have
micro soft. Scroll way down. Bill/Las Vegas


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From: "Kobi Hagoel" <hagoelko@zahav.net.il>
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	M" <rena_munzer@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: THIS IS FOR REAL. IT WAS ON THE NEWS LAST NIGHT
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 21:11:54 +0200
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check it out all the best kobi
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: rena M=20
  To: ron_anat@hotmail.com ; andrew@oneononeworld.com ; =
arig@aquanet.co.il ; chilam@netvision.net.il ; avievanus@yahoo.com ; =
brendagaltier@hotmail.com ; clipp@rosch.com.au ; =
debby.ferguson@teva.co.il ; dity_a@yahoo.com ; elenaxampeny@hotmail.com =
; ellybloom@hotmail.com ; zeev.fain@team.telstra.com ; =
zoberchik@hotmail.com=20
  Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 8:37 AM
  Subject: Fwd: Fw: THIS IS FOR REAL. IT WAS ON THE NEWS LAST NIGHT






  >From: "Noam Helmer"=20
  >To: "???? ???" , "Yori Levy" , "Udi Savitski" , "Udi Man" , "Shuval =
Greenfeld" , "Rooly Eliezerov" , "Ronit Braun Zur" , "Ronen Fadal" , =
"Louz-on,Lee" , "louzon" , "Lee Louz-On" , "Ido Vaginski" , "helmer" , =
"Hai Yakir" , "guy Benbenishti" , , "Amir Helmer" , "???? ????? ???" , =
"??? ????" , "??? ????" , "rena M" , "Orit Eran" , "Eran Krotoshinski" , =
"efrat"=20
  >Subject: Fw: THIS IS FOR REAL. IT WAS ON THE NEWS LAST NIGHT=20
  >Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 17:16:21 +0200=20
  >=20
  >FW: THIS IS FOR REAL. IT WAS ON THE NEWS LAST NIGHT.=20
  >Noam Helmer=20
  >Interior Architecture=20
  >Ahad Ha'am 75 a=20
  >Tel Aviv 65208=20
  >Israel=20
  >=20
  >Phone: 972 - 3 - 6 850 670=20
  >Fax: 972 - 3 - 6 850 714=20
  >E-mail: design@helmer.co.il=20
  >----- Original Message -----=20
  >From: dubyofir=20
  >To: ????? ???? ; ???? ??? ; ??? ???-????? ; ???? ??? ; ???? ???? ; =
??? ????? ; ??? ???? ; ?????? ????? ; ???? ???? ; ???? ???? ; ??????? =
????? ; ???? ??? ; ???? ???? ; ?????? ???? /????? ; ???? ??? ; ???? =
????? ; ???? ????? ; ????? ??? ; ????? ??? ; ????=20
  >Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2002 13:47=20
  >Subject: Fw: THIS IS FOR REAL. IT WAS ON THE NEWS LAST NIGHT=20
  >=20
  >=20
  >=20
  >Duby Ofir=20
  >Duby Ofir Industrial Design Ltd.=20
  =
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20
  >Tel: 972-9-8629689=20
  >Fax: 972-9-8629606=20
  >Mobile: 972-54-207545=20
  >=20
  >E-Mail: duby@do-design.co.il=20
  >URL: http://www.do-design.co.il=20
  =
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=20
  >----- Original Message -----=20
  >From: Aldubi, Irit=20
  >To: 'Bruce' ; 'charles' ; 'dina' ; 'duby offir' ; 'GAYA&YERACH' ; =
'eran'=20
  >Sent: ??? ????? 26 ??? 2002 12:38=20
  >Subject: FW: THIS IS FOR REAL. IT WAS ON THE NEWS LAST NIGHT=20
  >=20
  >=20
  >=20
  >=20
  >Irit Aldubi=20
  >=20
  >Travel & Marcom Coordinator=20
  >=20
  >ADC Israel=20
  >=20
  >Tel: +972.9.959.1491=20
  >=20
  >Fax: +972.9.959.1888=20
  >=20
  >-----Original Message-----=20
  >From: Maron, Hadass [mailto:Hadass.Maron@hp.com]=20
  >Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2002 11:54 AM=20
  >To: Laznik, Doron; Nahari, Yael; shosh.band@teva.co.il; Szabo, Eli; =
Elias, Santiago; Stern, Sara; Maor, Shosh; Bandler-Shalev, Smadar; =
smadar-mi@computer-direct.co.il; Aldubi, Irit; Shimon Padan; Moshe =
Margalit; kobi; kartin@attglobal.net=20
  >Subject: FW: THIS IS FOR REAL. IT WAS ON THE NEWS LAST NIGHT=20
  >=20
  >=20
  >=20
  >=20
  >Regards,=20
  >=20
  >Hadass Maron=20
  >=20
  >Tel :972-9-7623329=20
  >=20
  >Fax: 972-9-7424955=20
  >=20
  >-----Original Message-----=20
  >From: Asaf [mailto:asaf@comsecstorage.co.il]=20
  >Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 8:07 PM=20
  >To: joan.speller@ca.com; marcia.denoord@ca.com; =
sally.santamaria@ca.com; Heilig, Ofer; Konstantinidis, Wassilios; Maron, =
Hadass; orit.roediger-lavie@hp.com; herzel_adlan@ifco.co.il; =
zipi_glait@flying-cargo.com; ilan_zadok@ifco.co.il; rivkasu@yahoo.co.uk; =
avte77@hotmail.com; eohayon@aish.com; dolphinscry@beamartyr.net; =
elke.oppenlaender@tandberg.com; Buchnik, Benny; Lupeto, Coco; Maruskova, =
Zuzana; Weisswasser, Barbara; kobi_gottesman@flying-cargo.com=20
  >Subject: FW: THIS IS FOR REAL. IT WAS ON THE NEWS LAST NIGHT=20
  >=20
  >=20
  >=20
  >-----Original Message-----=20
  >From: Anat Parasol=20
  >Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 6:47 PM=20
  >To: Adi Levi; Alon Katan; Amir Harpaz; Amit Omer; Asaf; Dekel Ofir; =
Dina Gdalya; Erez Etzyon; Etti Bar-el; Limor Belasan; Maya Nissan; =
Michal Oren; Nissim Naim; Ofir Laor; Oren Sabag; Ronen Bril; Shino; =
Tomer Harbi; Yaniv Barzilay; Yaron Sadaty; Yossi Warshenbrot=20
  >Subject: FW: THIS IS FOR REAL. IT WAS ON THE NEWS LAST NIGHT=20
  >=20
  >=20
  >-----Original Message-----=20
  >From: Nachshon Begun [mailto:nachshonb@harel.co.il]=20
  >Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 5:17 PM=20
  >To: 'adim@mashcal.co.il'; Anat Parasol; 'Ceela'; 'Chaim-szmc'; 'ELI =
NETANEL'; 'Eyal Simha'; 'Fabio Libster'; 'frank'; 'hili keinan'; =
'ilan-mint'; 'jnada@mni.gov.il'; 'JULIA-W'; 'Lior - maatz'; 'MEIR - =
CDI'; 'MORAN - ELAD'; 'oded.refaeli@moh.health.gov.il'; '??? ??????'; =
Anet Levi; ELI FLORENTIN; Sara Chohen; Tamar Haramati; Yoav=20
  >Subject: FW: THIS IS FOR REAL. IT WAS ON THE NEWS LAST NIGHT=20
  >=20
  >=20
  >=20
  >-----Original Message-----=20
  >From: Tal Tsarfaty=20
  >Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 4:30 PM=20
  >To: Liat Badnani; Yafit Balgaly; Shimon Shaul; Liora Tako; sales=20
  >Subject: FW: THIS IS FOR REAL. IT WAS ON THE NEWS LAST NIGHT=20
  >=20
  >=20
  >=20
  >-----Original Message-----=20
  >From: SHINE,CORINA (HP-Israel,ex1) [mailto:corina_shine@hp.com]=20
  >Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 1:50 PM=20
  >To: smadar-mi@computer-direct.co.il; tali@harel.co.il; =
alony@malamcom.co.il=20
  >Subject: THIS IS FOR REAL. IT WAS ON THE NEWS LAST NIGHT=20
  >=20
  >=20
  >Let's give a chance.=20
  >=20
  >Best Regards,=20
  >=20
  >Corina Shine=20
  >=20
  >Partner Account Manager=20
  >=20
  >HP Israel=20
  >=20
  >Mobile: 972-54-406033=20
  >=20
  >=20
  >Subject: THIS IS FOR REAL. IT WAS ON THE NEWS LAST NIGHT.=20
  >=20
  >=20
  >=20
  >=20
  >Please pass this on - it could be worth a fortune for a few seconds.=20
  >Worth the punt=20
  >=20
  >Dear Friends,=20
  >Please do not take this for a junk letter. Bill Gates is sharing his =
fortune. If you ignore this you will repent later. Microsoft and AOL are =
now the largest Internet companies and in an effort to make sure that =
Internet Explorer remains the most widely used program, Microsoft and =
AOL are running an e-mail beta test.=20
  >=20
  >=20
  >When you forward this e-mail to friends, Microsoft can and will track =
it (if you are a Microsoft Windows user) for a two week time period. For =
every person that you forward this e-mail to, Microsoft will pay you =
$245.00, for every person that you sent it to that forwards it on, =
Microsoft will pay you $243.00 and for every third person that receives =
it, you will be paid $241.00. Within two weeks, Microsoft will contact =
you for your address and then send you a cheque.=20
  >=20
  >Regards.=20
  >=20
  >Chinu!=20
  >=20
  >I thought this was a scam myself, but two weeks after receiving this =
e-mail and forwarding it on, Microsoft contacted me for my address and =
within days, I received a cheque for US$24,800.00. You need to respond =
before the beta testing is over. If anyone can afford this Bill Gates is =
the man. It's all marketing expense to him. Please forward this to as =
many people as possible. You are bound to get at least US$10,000.00.=20
  >=20
  >=20
  >=20
  >Best Regards=20
  >=20
  >Henry=20
  >=20
  >=20
  >=20
  >=20
  >=20
  >Lango Limited=20
  >101 Greenfield Road=20
  >London E1 1EJ=20
  >UK=20
  >=20
  >Tel:- +44(0)20 247 8376=20
  >Fax:- +44(0)20 247 3282=20
  >e-mail:- henry@lango.co.uk=20
  >=20


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<BODY bgColor=3D#b8b8b8>
<DIV><FONT face=3DFrankRuehl>check it out all the best kobi</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Drena_munzer@hotmail.com =
href=3D"mailto:rena_munzer@hotmail.com">rena=20
  M</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dron_anat@hotmail.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:ron_anat@hotmail.com">ron_anat@hotmail.com</A> ; <A=20
  title=3Dandrew@oneononeworld.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:andrew@oneononeworld.com">andrew@oneononeworld.com</A> =
; <A=20
  title=3Darig@aquanet.co.il=20
  href=3D"mailto:arig@aquanet.co.il">arig@aquanet.co.il</A> ; <A=20
  title=3Dchilam@netvision.net.il=20
  href=3D"mailto:chilam@netvision.net.il">chilam@netvision.net.il</A> ; =
<A=20
  title=3Davievanus@yahoo.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:avievanus@yahoo.com">avievanus@yahoo.com</A> ; <A=20
  title=3Dbrendagaltier@hotmail.com=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:brendagaltier@hotmail.com">brendagaltier@hotmail.com</A> =
; <A=20
  title=3Dclipp@rosch.com.au=20
  href=3D"mailto:clipp@rosch.com.au">clipp@rosch.com.au</A> ; <A=20
  title=3Ddebby.ferguson@teva.co.il=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:debby.ferguson@teva.co.il">debby.ferguson@teva.co.il</A> =
; <A=20
  title=3Ddity_a@yahoo.com =
href=3D"mailto:dity_a@yahoo.com">dity_a@yahoo.com</A> ;=20
  <A title=3Delenaxampeny@hotmail.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:elenaxampeny@hotmail.com">elenaxampeny@hotmail.com</A> =
; <A=20
  title=3Dellybloom@hotmail.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:ellybloom@hotmail.com">ellybloom@hotmail.com</A> ; <A=20
  title=3Dzeev.fain@team.telstra.com=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:zeev.fain@team.telstra.com">zeev.fain@team.telstra.com</A>=
 ; <A=20
  title=3Dzoberchik@hotmail.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:zoberchik@hotmail.com">zoberchik@hotmail.com</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 29, 2002 =
8:37=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Fwd: Fw: THIS IS FOR =
REAL. IT=20
  WAS ON THE NEWS LAST NIGHT</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;From: "Noam Helmer" <DESIGN@HELMER.CO.IL>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;To: "???? ???" <TIMEOUT@NETVISION.NET.IL>, "Yori Levy"=20
  <YORAM_LEVY@HOTMAIL.COM>, "Udi Savitski" <UDI@VEGAVENTURES.COM>, "Udi =
Man"=20
  <INTECTUR@INTERNET-ZAHAV.NET>, "Shuval Greenfeld" =
<SHUVAL@VELIVA.CO.IL>,=20
  "Rooly Eliezerov" <ROOLY@HOTBAR.COM>, "Ronit Braun Zur"=20
  <HASH_RONITZ@DIESENHAUS.CO.IL>, "Ronen Fadal" =
<EGG_D@NETVISION.NET.IL>,=20
  "Louz-on,Lee" <LEE_LOUZ-ON@MENTORG.COM>, "louzon" =
<LOUZ_ON@ZAHAV.NET.IL>, "Lee=20
  Louz-On" <LEE_LOUZ-ON@MENTOR.COM>, "Ido Vaginski" <IDO.V@T-ONLINE.DE>, =

  "helmer" <UHELMER@NETVISION.NET.IL>, "Hai Yakir" =
<HAI-YAKIR@EGLAW.CO.IL>, "guy=20
  Benbenishti" <GUYDESIGNER@BARAK-ONLINE.NET>, <CLIZRA@HOTMAIL.COM>, =
"Amir=20
  Helmer" <HELMER@OFFICEDEPOT.CO.IL>, "???? ????? ???"=20
  <TIMOUT@NETVISION.NET.IL>, "??? ????" <DETAMIR@NETVISION.NET.IL>, "??? =
????"=20
  <BANKI_D@YAHOO.COM>, "rena M" <RENA_MUNZER@HOTMAIL.COM>, "Orit Eran"=20
  <TSHIKA@NETVISION.NET.IL>, "Eran Krotoshinski" =
<ER1967AN@ZAHAV.NET.IL>,=20
  "efrat" <EFRATTI@ZAHAV.NET.IL>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Subject: Fw: THIS IS FOR REAL. IT WAS ON THE NEWS LAST =
NIGHT=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 17:16:21 +0200=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;FW: THIS IS FOR REAL. IT WAS ON THE NEWS LAST NIGHT.=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Noam Helmer=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Interior Architecture=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Ahad Ha'am 75 a=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Tel Aviv 65208=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Israel=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Phone: 972 - 3 - 6 850 670=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Fax: 972 - 3 - 6 850 714=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;E-mail: <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:design@helmer.co.il">design@helmer.co.il</A>=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;----- Original Message -----=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;From: dubyofir=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;To: ????? ???? ; ???? ??? ; ??? ???-????? ; ???? ??? ; =
????=20
  ???? ; ??? ????? ; ??? ???? ; ?????? ????? ; ???? ???? ; ???? ???? ; =
???????=20
  ????? ; ???? ??? ; ???? ???? ; ?????? ???? /????? ; ???? ??? ; ???? =
????? ;=20
  ???? ????? ; ????? ??? ; ????? ??? ; ????=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2002 13:47=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Subject: Fw: THIS IS FOR REAL. IT WAS ON THE NEWS LAST =
NIGHT=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Duby Ofir=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Duby Ofir Industrial Design Ltd.=20
  =
<DIV></DIV>&gt;=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Tel: 972-9-8629689=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Fax: 972-9-8629606=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Mobile: 972-54-207545=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;E-Mail: duby@do-design.co.il=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;URL: http://www.do-design.co.il=20
  =
<DIV></DIV>&gt;=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;----- Original Message -----=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;From: Aldubi, Irit=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;To: 'Bruce' ; 'charles' ; 'dina' ; 'duby offir' ;=20
  'GAYA&amp;YERACH' ; 'eran'=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Sent: ??? ????? 26 ??? 2002 12:38=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Subject: FW: THIS IS FOR REAL. IT WAS ON THE NEWS LAST =
NIGHT=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Irit Aldubi=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Travel &amp; Marcom Coordinator=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;ADC Israel=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Tel: +972.9.959.1491=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Fax: +972.9.959.1888=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;-----Original Message-----=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;From: Maron, Hadass [mailto:Hadass.Maron@hp.com]=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2002 11:54 AM=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;To: Laznik, Doron; Nahari, Yael; shosh.band@teva.co.il; =
Szabo,=20
  Eli; Elias, Santiago; Stern, Sara; Maor, Shosh; Bandler-Shalev, =
Smadar;=20
  smadar-mi@computer-direct.co.il; Aldubi, Irit; Shimon Padan; Moshe =
Margalit;=20
  kobi; kartin@attglobal.net=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Subject: FW: THIS IS FOR REAL. IT WAS ON THE NEWS LAST =
NIGHT=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Regards,=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Hadass Maron=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Tel :972-9-7623329=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Fax: 972-9-7424955=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;-----Original Message-----=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;From: Asaf [mailto:asaf@comsecstorage.co.il]=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 8:07 PM=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;To: joan.speller@ca.com; marcia.denoord@ca.com;=20
  sally.santamaria@ca.com; Heilig, Ofer; Konstantinidis, Wassilios; =
Maron,=20
  Hadass; orit.roediger-lavie@hp.com; herzel_adlan@ifco.co.il;=20
  zipi_glait@flying-cargo.com; ilan_zadok@ifco.co.il; =
rivkasu@yahoo.co.uk;=20
  avte77@hotmail.com; eohayon@aish.com; dolphinscry@beamartyr.net;=20
  elke.oppenlaender@tandberg.com; Buchnik, Benny; Lupeto, Coco; =
Maruskova,=20
  Zuzana; Weisswasser, Barbara; kobi_gottesman@flying-cargo.com=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Subject: FW: THIS IS FOR REAL. IT WAS ON THE NEWS LAST =
NIGHT=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;-----Original Message-----=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;From: Anat Parasol=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 6:47 PM=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;To: Adi Levi; Alon Katan; Amir Harpaz; Amit Omer; Asaf; =
Dekel=20
  Ofir; Dina Gdalya; Erez Etzyon; Etti Bar-el; Limor Belasan; Maya =
Nissan;=20
  Michal Oren; Nissim Naim; Ofir Laor; Oren Sabag; Ronen Bril; Shino; =
Tomer=20
  Harbi; Yaniv Barzilay; Yaron Sadaty; Yossi Warshenbrot=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Subject: FW: THIS IS FOR REAL. IT WAS ON THE NEWS LAST =
NIGHT=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;-----Original Message-----=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;From: Nachshon Begun [mailto:nachshonb@harel.co.il]=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 5:17 PM=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;To: 'adim@mashcal.co.il'; Anat Parasol; 'Ceela'; =
'Chaim-szmc';=20
  'ELI NETANEL'; 'Eyal Simha'; 'Fabio Libster'; 'frank'; 'hili keinan';=20
  'ilan-mint'; 'jnada@mni.gov.il'; 'JULIA-W'; 'Lior - maatz'; 'MEIR - =
CDI';=20
  'MORAN - ELAD'; 'oded.refaeli@moh.health.gov.il'; '??? ??????'; Anet =
Levi; ELI=20
  FLORENTIN; Sara Chohen; Tamar Haramati; Yoav=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Subject: FW: THIS IS FOR REAL. IT WAS ON THE NEWS LAST =
NIGHT=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;-----Original Message-----=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;From: Tal Tsarfaty=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 4:30 PM=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;To: Liat Badnani; Yafit Balgaly; Shimon Shaul; Liora =
Tako;=20
  sales=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Subject: FW: THIS IS FOR REAL. IT WAS ON THE NEWS LAST =
NIGHT=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;-----Original Message-----=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;From: SHINE,CORINA (HP-Israel,ex1) =
[mailto:corina_shine@hp.com]=20

  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 1:50 PM=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;To: smadar-mi@computer-direct.co.il; tali@harel.co.il;=20
  alony@malamcom.co.il=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Subject: THIS IS FOR REAL. IT WAS ON THE NEWS LAST =
NIGHT=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Let's give a chance.=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Best Regards,=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Corina Shine=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Partner Account Manager=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;HP Israel=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Mobile: 972-54-406033=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Subject: THIS IS FOR REAL. IT WAS ON THE NEWS LAST =
NIGHT.=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Please pass this on - it could be worth a fortune for a =
few=20
  seconds.=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Worth the punt=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Dear Friends,=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Please do not take this for a junk letter. Bill Gates =
is=20
  sharing his fortune. If you ignore this you will repent later. =
Microsoft and=20
  AOL are now the largest Internet companies and in an effort to make =
sure that=20
  Internet Explorer remains the most widely used program, Microsoft and =
AOL are=20
  running an e-mail beta test.=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;When you forward this e-mail to friends, Microsoft can =
and will=20
  track it (if you are a Microsoft Windows user) for a two week time =
period. For=20
  every person that you forward this e-mail to, Microsoft will pay you =
$245.00,=20
  for every person that you sent it to that forwards it on, Microsoft =
will pay=20
  you $243.00 and for every third person that receives it, you will be =
paid=20
  $241.00. Within two weeks, Microsoft will contact you for your address =
and=20
  then send you a cheque.=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Regards.=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Chinu!=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;I thought this was a scam myself, but two weeks after =
receiving=20
  this e-mail and forwarding it on, Microsoft contacted me for my =
address and=20
  within days, I received a cheque for US$24,800.00. You need to respond =
before=20
  the beta testing is over. If anyone can afford this Bill Gates is the =
man.=20
  It's all marketing expense to him. Please forward this to as many =
people as=20
  possible. You are bound to get at least US$10,000.00.=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Best Regards=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Henry=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Lango Limited=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;101 Greenfield Road=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;London E1 1EJ=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;UK=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Tel:- +44(0)20 247 8376=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Fax:- +44(0)20 247 3282=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;e-mail:- henry@lango.co.uk=20
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV></DIV><BR clear=3Dall>
  <HR>
  Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <A=20
  =
href=3D"http://g.msn.com/1HM301201/41">http://explorer.msn.com</A>.<BR></=
BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0030_01C209B0.F4AA70E0--



--WebTV-Mail-29083-1449--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  2 13:25:01 2002
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From: JIMFOWLER@prodigy.net
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Message-Id: <AA-7B02C68D4669BDB598CA188BC98B8212-ZZ@www4.prodigy.net>
Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 13:23:37 -0500
Subject: RE: Midi Pedalboard
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i can't comment on the behringer, but i've been lead 
to believe that the rocktron all access is the mother 
of all midi footcontrollers.  i love mine although i'm 
convinced that rocktron writes their manuals in a 
different language.  i'm getting the hang of it, but 
the documentation leaves a bit to be desired.  blah 
blah blah...

look around for the rocktron.  you will not be limited 
if armed with that one.

-jim

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  2 13:40:25 2002
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Wow :)

http://www.rocktron.com/products/access.html

Very very nice! It has 15 stomp buttons which is definitely in the right 
direction! I suppose that linked through the FC-200 would give me 
everything that I need :)

Thanks.

--
Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
http://www.solostring.com
stuart@solostring.com

On Sunday, June 2, 2002, at 08:23 PM, JIMFOWLER@prodigy.net wrote:

> i can't comment on the behringer, but i've been lead
> to believe that the rocktron all access is the mother
> of all midi footcontrollers.  i love mine although i'm
> convinced that rocktron writes their manuals in a
> different language.  i'm getting the hang of it, but
> the documentation leaves a bit to be desired.  blah
> blah blah...
>
> look around for the rocktron.  you will not be limited
> if armed with that one.
>
> -jim
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  2 13:49:14 2002
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Er, you really believe this?

(psst! ..... its not true) :)

On Sunday, June 2, 2002, at 06:05 PM, William Mcallister forwarded:

> Spam chain letter  --

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  2 13:58:03 2002
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Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 13:55:17 -0400
From: Scott Carr <scott@tapehissrecordings.com>
Organization: Tapehiss Recordings
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The World Weekly News?

> William Mcallister wrote:
> 
> Check this out, someone let me know if this is for real. I dont have
> micro soft. Scroll way down. Bill/Las Vegas
> 

-- 
~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%
  Visit the the home of Hebephrenic, The Hot Buttered Elves, & Sunshine

                     http://www.tapehissrecordings.com

         and our sites at the worlds largest online cut-out bin

                    http://mp3.com/hotbutteredelves
                      http://mp3.com/hebephrenica
                   http://mp3.com/sunshineallthetime
~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  2 14:49:01 2002
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Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Fw: THIS IS FOR REAL. IT WAS ON THE NEWS LAST NIGHT
From: Jeffrey Lomas <jeff.lomas@oasis-open.org>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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its bullshit.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  2 14:50:10 2002
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Message-Id: <AA-E0C9E5230A1E5417608B894BF397423F-ZZ@www2.prodigy.net>
Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 14:49:05 -0500
Subject: Re: Midi Pedalboard
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very powerful indeed.

hard to find, though.  rocktron and their retailers 
will tell you that they're still in production and i 
won't debate that but i will say that finding one new 
is terribly difficult.  you can pay musictoyz.com the 
800 bucks they want for a new one or you can wait for 
ktjmusic.com to get their units in (679.00 new).

my advice: search ebay, hugeracksinc.com, and harmony-
central.

good luck.  if you go with the all access, i'm sure 
you won't be disappointed.

-jim

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  2 14:52:25 2002
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>its bullshit.

...needless to say...

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  2 15:18:25 2002
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Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 15:02:44 -0400
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: "Emile Tobenfeld (a.k.a Dr. T)" <emile@foryourhead.com>
Subject: Ascii Looping was Re: Fwd: Re: Fw: THIS IS FOR REAL. IT WAS ON
 THE NEWS LAST NIGHT
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Its from the tooth fairy tooth fairy tooth tooth fairy fait tooth tooth too!

<At least there is some looping content here. Which does suggest an 
ascii Jam session, performed by cutting and pasting text in email.>
-- 

Visit "Before the Fall -- Images of the World Trade Center" at 
http://www.foryourhead.com

"There were so many things there that are not anywhere else in the 
world. There were millions of people, the strange reflective bars of 
the buildings and the shiny and shimmering towers that seemed like a 
fairy tale"   -- David-Michael Cook

		Emile Tobenfeld, Ph. D.
Video Producer			Image Processing Specialist
Video for your HEAD!			Boris FX
http://www.foryourhead.com		http://www.borisfx.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  2 16:59:51 2002
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Subject: Re: Fw: THIS IS FOR REAL. (THIS IS A LOOP BASED MUSIC LIST!)
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From: Mark Sottilaro <sine@zerocrossing.net>
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Regardless of whether or not this was real, why the hell would you think 
that the Looper's Delight list would be a place to confirm it?  I'm 
going to go out on a limb here and say, don't be such an idiot.  This is 
a forum solely for the discussion of making loop based music.  Before 
you post, think, "Gee, is this something that could in any way 
contribute to the list's understanding of making music.   Loop based 
music?"  If the answer is no, write out your email and then hit that 
little "X" button in the upper right hand of the email window. (Left if 
your on a Macintosh) and DON'T click "send message" if it asks you.  
Click "delete" or "Cancel" depending on what email client you're using.  
Then, hit yourself in the head with a hammer, possibly knocking some 
sense into yourself, or taking your self out of the gene pool.

I will now apologize in advance for this cranky flame ridden email, but 
I spend way too much time each day dealing with spam, virus sent emails, 
and dealing with people who make my life harder because they couldn't be 
bothered to think.  On another list, you'd be kicked off by the 
moderator for sending such junk.  Here, I just insult you.  Oh, and by 
the way, before any of you send a retort, I don't care what you think, 
I'm right.

This email is real, though you won't hear about it on the news.

Mark Sottilaro

On Sunday, June 2, 2002, at 12:51  PM, JIMFOWLER@prodigy.net wrote:

>> its bullshit.
>
> ...needless to say...
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  2 17:56:18 2002
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Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 16:13:01 -0500
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From: Michael Clark <mcl451@airmail.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: THIS IS FOR REAL. (THIS IS A LOOP BASED MUSIC LIST!)
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IMO, the email was sent to get "credit" for all of us receiving the email.

Gee, thanks for thinking of me!

M...


At 01:58 PM 6/2/02 -0700, you wrote:
>Regardless of whether or not this was real, why the hell would you think 
>that the Looper's Delight list would be a place to confirm it?  I'm 
>going to go out on a limb here and say, don't be such an idiot.  This is 
>a forum solely for the discussion of making loop based music.  Before 
>you post, think, "Gee, is this something that could in any way 
>contribute to the list's understanding of making music.   Loop based 
>music?"  If the answer is no, write out your email and then hit that 
>little "X" button in the upper right hand of the email window. (Left if 
>your on a Macintosh) and DON'T click "send message" if it asks you.  
>Click "delete" or "Cancel" depending on what email client you're using.  
>Then, hit yourself in the head with a hammer, possibly knocking some 
>sense into yourself, or taking your self out of the gene pool.
>
>I will now apologize in advance for this cranky flame ridden email, but 
>I spend way too much time each day dealing with spam, virus sent emails, 
>and dealing with people who make my life harder because they couldn't be 
>bothered to think.  On another list, you'd be kicked off by the 
>moderator for sending such junk.  Here, I just insult you.  Oh, and by 
>the way, before any of you send a retort, I don't care what you think, 
>I'm right.
>
>This email is real, though you won't hear about it on the news.
>
>Mark Sottilaro
>
>On Sunday, June 2, 2002, at 12:51  PM, JIMFOWLER@prodigy.net wrote:
>
>>> its bullshit.
>>
>> ...needless to say...
>>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  2 17:59:47 2002
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i have a confession to make: i think mr. sottilaro's 
ferocious retorts are pretty damn funny.  way to be 
funny!

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

-jim



From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  2 18:15:00 2002
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Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 23:08:46 +0200
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Kim
I'd love to know a litle more about the traffic,nb of list members, etc
...  on our litle looping community ?

some numbers?

Thanks

Claude

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In a message dated 6/2/02 5:57:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
JIMFOWLER@prodigy.net writes:


> ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
> 

you wont be laughing so much when mr. sottilaro turns his watchful eye upon 
your use of bandwith mr. fowler.....he he he.....michael


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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 6/2/02 5:57:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JIMFOWLER@prodigy.net writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
you wont be laughing so much when mr. sottilaro turns his watchful eye upon your use of bandwith mr. fowler.....he he he.....michael<BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
--part1_91.1dd9df80.2a2bf51d_boundary--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  2 18:54:47 2002
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::cowering:: 

what did i do?!

i'm not the one who sent that forward!

-jim

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  2 20:01:52 2002
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Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 17:01:53 -0700
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: Kim Flint <kflint@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Re: LoopIV Question
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At 03:37 AM 6/2/2002, Chris Olden wrote:
>  Howdy,
>  Will the new software for the EDP work in my old
>  Oberheim EDP? Just a new guy wantin' to know!
>  Thanks!
>  Chris Olden

yes, it will work in any echoplex digital pro, Gibson or Oberheim.
kim



______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun  3 02:34:22 2002
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I do what I can. Don't forget to tip your wait staff!  I'll be here all 
week, thanks you've been a great audience!

Mark

On Sunday, June 2, 2002, at 03:57  PM, JIMFOWLER@prodigy.net wrote:

> i have a confession to make: i think mr. sottilaro's
> ferocious retorts are pretty damn funny.  way to be
> funny!
>
> ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
>
> -jim
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun  3 02:59:14 2002
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Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 03:01:28 -0400
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: just john <just-john@just-john.com>
Subject: THIS IS FOR REAL. (Ejection proposal)
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>Check this out, someone let me know if this is for real. I dont have
>micro soft. Scroll way down. Bill/Las Vegas


What's the procedure for bringing to the floor the proposal that "Bill/Las
Vegas" be permanently ejected from the list?

---
* just-john@just-john.com  http://just-john.com/cn/rfe.shtml *

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun  3 03:54:32 2002
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To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
References: <v04011700b920c45d106a@[207.88.96.199]>
Subject: Re: THIS IS FOR REAL. (Ejection proposal)
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 02:51:17 +0100
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think that might be a bit rash?

he didn't insult anybody personally...what's one more bullshit email?  hell,
yahoo.com whores your address out to who knows how many spammers.

just trying to keep the peace.

-jim


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I agree.

It might have been a stupid thing to do (I mean, $245 for every email 
sent? How the hell could they track this? Especially if you use clients? 
How will they know who to send checks to? How could they prevent this 
being abused?).... :)

It was stupid, but not worthy of a ban...

On Monday, June 3, 2002, at 03:51 AM, Jimmy Fowler wrote:

> think that might be a bit rash?
>
> he didn't insult anybody personally...what's one more bullshit email?  
> hell,
> yahoo.com whores your address out to who knows how many spammers.
>
> just trying to keep the peace.
>
> -jim
>
>
>
>
--
Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
http://www.solostring.com
stuart@solostring.com

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i took it as tongue-in-cheek amusement, like all those letters that start
out telling you the good things that will happen if you send out all these
copies and then proceed to explain how people died under bizarre
circumstances if they didn't:

In any case, it is certainly a form of loop and the guy's not making a
lifestyle out of it or anything, so...? What if we were to lower the
feedback knob down a bit from 11 and let it fade away?


on 6/3/02 1:14 AM, Stuart Wyatt at stuart@solostring.com wrote:

> It was stupid, but not worthy of a ban...

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From: just john <just-john@just-john.com>
Subject: Re: THIS IS FOR REAL. (Ejection proposal)
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>I agree.
>
>It might have been a stupid thing to do (I mean, $245 for every email
>sent? How the hell could they track this? Especially if you use clients?
>How will they know who to send checks to? How could they prevent this
>being abused?).... :)


... and yet, we have a person here who believed it, and this person may
actually have access to serious machinery, like automobiles and guns.



>
>It was stupid, but not worthy of a ban...


If this spam were his first-ever post, the listadmin would bump him off
without a second thought, and we'd have no complaints about that.  It's
simple, and it's done every day in thousands of lists worldwide.

Does anybody disagree with that assessment of the situation?

So the punishment for spamming a list, especially with this sort of spam,
is ejection, pure and simple.

But I'm not saying that this is what's going to happen in this case.
Because on the opposite side of punishment is a combination of mercy and
forgiveness, often heaped together under the heading of "slack."

Examples of slack in this case:   Unlike my normal procedures that I follow
with the dozens of pieces of normal spam I get every day, I did NOT report
this to his ISP and their upstream provider.  I also did NOT report it to
the various FTC and other entities that collect examples of chain mail
fraud.

I gave him that amount of slack, even though HE DELIBERATELY LIED TO ALL OF
US twice already within his Subject: header.

In the interest of slack, he won't be bumped from his ISP from any action
by me, even though that's undoubtedly their policy in such situations.  And
I imagine he won't be bumped from this list.

But we SHOULD rub his nose in it.  If he's so incredibly dim that he goes
for an ancient (by net standards) chain letter that most people say
"Nobody's dumb enough to fall for that!" to, then how do we know that he'll
realize he's committed an offense here?

---
* just-john@just-john.com  http://just-john.com/cn/rfe.shtml *

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From: "Bill Fox" <billfox@fast.net>
To: "emusic-wdiy Mailing List" <emusic-wdiy@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: EMUSIC Playlist #271
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 09:17:02 -0400
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[ Best viewed using a fixed spacing font. ]

EMUSIC is an electronic, ambient, and space music show, that airs each Thursday
at 11:04 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and Bethlehem, PA and 93.9 FM in Easton,
PA and Phillipsburg, NJ.

                    Show #271                    May 30, 2002.


RECAP:
On this show, I concluded the month-long focus on Steve Roach and vidnaObmana,
who made rare concert appearances together at Projektfest and the Gathering.
The Featured CD at midnight was "Circles & Artifacts" on the Contemporary
Harmonic label.

The vinyl show starter was from the LP "Planeten Sit-In" by the Cosmic Jokers
on the Ohr label.

I played the music of The Ministry of Inside Things who will be performing at
the next event in the Soundscapes Concert Series on June 22.

Steve Roach and vidnaObmana
http://wdiyfm.org/programs/emusic/playlists/2002/focus02.html#may
The Ministry of Inside Things http://wdiyfm.org/programs/emusic/events.html


PLAYLIST:

ARTIST                  TRACK                    ALBUM (label)
======================= ======================== ==============================
11:04 pm
Cosmic Jokers           Raumschiff Galaxy        Planeten Sit-In (Ohr)
Cosmic Jokers           Planet of Communication  Planeten Sit-In (Ohr)
Cosmic Jokers           Elektronenzirkus         Planeten Sit-In (Ohr)
VA [Lascelles]          Radio Bristol 258        Slowdesk (Waveform)
Brannan Land and        Unfamiliar Territory     Deep Unknown (brannanlane.com)
  vidnaObmana
Oophoi                  Ever Changing Horizon    Athlit (Hypnos)
Ministry of Inside      Neutron Flux             Live on EMUSIC (Synkronos)
  Things
Zero Ohms and           Soundfall                Soundfall to the Infinite
Brannan Lane                                       (Space for Music)
Johnathan Hughs         Imatra                   Trillium (Foundry/Hypnos)

12:00 am
Roach & Obmana          Circles & Artifacts      Circles & Artifacts
                                                   (Contemporary Harmonic)

1:00 am

 * = exerpt
VA = Various Artists (compilation)


NEXT SHOW:
On the next EMUSIC, I'll begin a month-long focus on Amir Baghiri.  The
Featured CD at Midnight will be a disc from "The Bluebox Collection" on the
Arya label.

The vinyl show starter will be from the LP "Paradise" by Robert Schroder on the
IC label.

I will play the music of the Ministry of Inside Things who will perform at the
Soundscapes Concert Series on June 22.


Bill        billfox@fast.net           http://wdiyfm.org/programs/emusic
===============================================================================
Host of EMUSIC, an electronic, ambient, and space music show.  Thursdays at
11 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and Bethlehem and 93.9 FM in Easton and
Phillipsburg.  Email me if you wish to submit music for airplay consideration.
Radio Station Home Page: http://wdiyfm.org
Personal site: http://www.users.fast.net/~billfox
To subscribe to the EMUSIC on WDIY list, go to
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/emusic-wdiy and click on [Join This Group!]
SOUNDSCAPES Concert Series: http://www.tadream.net/soundscapes

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun  3 09:43:02 2002
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Hey! I just got my $245.00!

Now I can be the newly discounted POD!
> IMO, the email was sent to get "credit" for all of us receiving the email.
> 
> Gee, thanks for thinking of me!
> 
> M...
> 
> 
> At 01:58 PM 6/2/02 -0700, you wrote:
> >Regardless of whether or not this was real, why the hell would you think 
> >that the Looper's Delight list would be a place to confirm it?  I'm 
> >going to go out on a limb here and say, don't be such an idiot.  This is 
> >a forum solely for the discussion of making loop based music.  Before 
> >you post, think, "Gee, is this something that could in any way 
> >contribute to the list's understanding of making music.   Loop based 
> >music?"  If the answer is no, write out your email and then hit that 
> >little "X" button in the upper right hand of the email window. (Left if 
> >your on a Macintosh) and DON'T click "send message" if it asks you.  
> >Click "delete" or "Cancel" depending on what email client you're using.  
> >Then, hit yourself in the head with a hammer, possibly knocking some 
> >sense into yourself, or taking your self out of the gene pool.
> >
> >I will now apologize in advance for this cranky flame ridden email, but 
> >I spend way too much time each day dealing with spam, virus sent emails, 
> >and dealing with people who make my life harder because they couldn't be 
> >bothered to think.  On another list, you'd be kicked off by the 
> >moderator for sending such junk.  Here, I just insult you.  Oh, and by 
> >the way, before any of you send a retort, I don't care what you think, 
> >I'm right.
> >
> >This email is real, though you won't hear about it on the news.
> >
> >Mark Sottilaro
> >
> >On Sunday, June 2, 2002, at 12:51  PM, JIMFOWLER@prodigy.net wrote:
> >
> >>> its bullshit.
> >>
> >> ...needless to say...
> >>
> >
> >
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun  3 10:55:30 2002
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From: "Brother Sean" <info@brothersean.com>
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Subject: Mackie 1604-VLZPRO---for sale
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 09:53:43 -0500
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Want to let everyone on the list know before I throw this on e-bay:
 
Mackie 1604-VLZPRO for sale w/ RoboPod accessory
 
Unit is about three years old and in good condition,
Only noticeable blemish is where the light attaches to the board.
The light got bumped (at the base) once which caused the metal casing
around
the light fixture to bend a small amount. Everything works perfectly
though.
 
Email me off the list if you are interested, thanks!
 
Kevin McPeak
info@brothersean.com <mailto:info@brothersen.com> 
 

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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Want to let everyone on the list know before I throw =
this on
e-bay:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Mackie 1604-VLZPRO for sale w/ RoboPod =
accessory<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Unit is about three years old and in good =
condition,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Only noticeable blemish is where the light attaches =
to the
board.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>The light got bumped (at the base) once which caused =
the
metal casing around<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DGramE><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>the</span></font></span><fon=
t
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> light
fixture to bend a small amount. Everything works perfectly =
though.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Email me off the list if you are interested, =
thanks!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Kevin McPeak<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><a =
href=3D"mailto:info@brothersen.com">info@brothersean.com</a><o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
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</div>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun  3 11:35:15 2002
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From: BILLYBUDDHA@webtv.net (William Mcallister)
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 08:33:09 -0700 (PDT)
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Fw: THIS IS FOR REAL. (THIS IS A LOOP BASED MUSIC LIST!)
Message-ID: <16579-3CFB8C35-4671@storefull-2357.public.lawson.webtv.net>
In-Reply-To: Mark Sottilaro <sine@zerocrossing.net>'s message of Sun, 2 Jun
	2002 13:58:02 -0700
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First off, I enjoyed reading Mark Sottilaro's sarcastic yet constructive
critique. great way to get the point accross. But as for "just john" I
dont know what is worse, my stupidity or you investing so much emotion
in my stupidity. As for every one else tolerating the spam thread. I am
sorry and it won't happen again. Blessings to all,  Bill/Las Vegas 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun  3 11:57:45 2002
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From: "Dennis Leas" <dennis@mdbs.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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Subject: Re: THIS IS FOR REAL. (Ejection proposal)
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I don't understand why this is such a big issue.

Dennis Leas
-------------------
dennis@mdbs.com


----- Original Message -----
From: "just john" <just-john@just-john.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 2:01 AM
Subject: THIS IS FOR REAL. (Ejection proposal)


> >Check this out, someone let me know if this is for real. I dont have
> >micro soft. Scroll way down. Bill/Las Vegas
>
>
> What's the procedure for bringing to the floor the proposal that "Bill/Las
> Vegas" be permanently ejected from the list?
>
> ---
> * just-john@just-john.com  http://just-john.com/cn/rfe.shtml *
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun  3 12:40:09 2002
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From: "Bill Fox" <billfox@fast.net>
To: "emusic-wdiy Mailing List" <emusic-wdiy@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: EMUSIC Monthly Top 20 Report - May
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 10:24:21 -0400
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WDIY 88.1 FM "EMUSIC" Top 20 report to
New Age Voice and CD Revolutions for May, 2002.
Shows #267 to #271; 2-May-2002 to 30-May-2002
Reported in non-ranked order.
Compiled by Bill Fox, billfox@fast.net

CONTACT:   billfox@fast.net
           http://wdiyfm.org/programs/emusic


ARTIST - ALBUM TITLE - LABEL
============================
Boots, Aerts, vd Heijden - Livelines - Groove
Brannan Land and vidnaObmana - Deep Unknown - brannanlane.com
Chris Short and Vir Unis - The Yellow House - In the Bubble Music
Johnathan Hughs - Trillium - Foundry/Hypnos
Klangwelt - Weltweit - Spheric Music
Mark Jenkins - Sequencer Loops - AMP
Oophoi - Athlit - Hypnos
Ricochet Musos - Okefenokee Dreams 2001 - Neu Harmony/Quantum
Robert Carty - Light Dreaming - Deep Sky Music
Robert Rich and Ian Boddy - Outpost - DiN
Ron Boots - Liquid Structures in Solid Form - Groove
Rudy Adrian and Nick Prosser - Concerts in New Zealand - Quantum
Steve Roach and vidnaObmana - Circles & Artifacts - Contemporary Harmonic
Steve Roach and vidnaObmana - InnerZone - Projekt
Steve Roach and vidnaObmana - Live Archive - Groove
Steve Roach and vidnaObmana - Well of Souls - Projekt
Tom Heasley - On the Sensastions of Tone - Innova
Various Artists - First Decade - Manikin
Various Artists - Slowdesk - Waveform
Zero Ohms and Brannan Lane - Soundfall to the Infinite - Space for Music

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	 <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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Stig, is that g.e.stinson of shadowfax fame? 

** sho' nuff. he's doing something a little different these days.

stig


<font size="1">Confidentiality Warning:  This e-mail contains information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above.  If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, any dissemination, publication or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. The sender does not accept any responsibility for any loss, disruption or damage to your data or computer system that may occur while using data contained in, or transmitted with, this e-mail.   If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify us by return e-mail.  Thank you.


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<P><FONT SIZE=2>Stig, is that g.e.stinson of shadowfax fame? </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>** sho' nuff. he's doing something a little different these days.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>stig</FONT>
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun  3 13:41:47 2002
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Subject: Korg DL8000r delay for sale
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 10:40:06 -0700
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Korg DL8000r (loop capable) 5/10 sec delay for sale $200
http://www.loopers-delight.com/tools/korgDL8000R/korgDL8000R.html

Also:
Tech 21 Sansamp Acoustic DI $100

MOTU Pocket Express external midi interface 2x2 (midi outs A&B are doubled
for a total of 4 out jacks. PC (parallel) or MAC (looks like a PS2 plug) $30

Paypal is fine.

Phoenix, Arizona
www.ericzang.com



From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun  3 14:08:36 2002
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I think if there were pre defined rules on this list, and one of the rules
was broken, then you'd have a case, but as it is, we have no such rules, and
that maybe a good thing.  However, if you really don't like what a list
member contributes, you can always set up an email filter to filter that
address out.

Mark

just john wrote:

> >Check this out, someone let me know if this is for real. I dont have
> >micro soft. Scroll way down. Bill/Las Vegas
>
> What's the procedure for bringing to the floor the proposal that "Bill/Las
> Vegas" be permanently ejected from the list?
>
> ---
> * just-john@just-john.com  http://just-john.com/cn/rfe.shtml *

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun  3 14:58:16 2002
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Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 11:57:58 -0700
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: Kim Flint <kflint@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Re: THIS IS FOR REAL. (Ejection proposal)
In-Reply-To: <v04011701b920f08b4140@[207.88.96.21]>
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At 03:25 AM 6/3/2002, just john wrote:
>If this spam were his first-ever post, the listadmin would bump him off
>without a second thought,

no I wouldn't. Where did you get that idea? I might make some sarcastic or 
humiliating remark, but Mark does an excellent job of that so I don't need 
to bother anymore.

>and we'd have no complaints about that.  It's
>simple, and it's done every day in thousands of lists worldwide.

depends on the list.


>Does anybody disagree with that assessment of the situation?

Oh! oh! Me! I do!


>So the punishment for spamming a list, especially with this sort of spam,
>is ejection, pure and simple.

No it isn't. Such policies are determined by the owner of the list, who in 
this case is me. Please don't assume to know my policies if you are not 
even going to bother to ask. You've even been on the list for a while, so I 
think you would know better.

I've never made any such rule. I've also never had to kick anybody off this 
list, in the entire 5.5 year history of it. In fact, I refuse to do that. 
Do you know why this works? It's not dumb luck. I've always insisted that 
the community is in charge of itself, and that I won't be the dictator. 
Everybody holds equal responsibility for the character of the list, not one 
person. If somebody does something "wrong", the others can point that out 
and help that person to be "right". If somebody "misbehaves", the others 
must convince that person to change behavior. This community approach 
works. It's your community, and it's up to all of you *and* each one of you 
whether the community is good or bad. So far, you all seem to have done a 
pretty good job.

>Examples of slack in this case:   Unlike my normal procedures that I follow
>with the dozens of pieces of normal spam I get every day, I did NOT report
>this to his ISP and their upstream provider.  I also did NOT report it to
>the various FTC and other entities that collect examples of chain mail
>fraud.

Do you seriously think the FTC or anybody working at an ISP is going to 
care if some idiot forwards a chain letter? Your world sounds really 
fascinating, I would like to visit some time.


>I gave him that amount of slack, even though HE DELIBERATELY LIED TO ALL OF
>US twice already within his Subject: header.

you're almost as funny as Mark, except Mark was trying to be funny.

>In the interest of slack, he won't be bumped from his ISP from any action
>by me, even though that's undoubtedly their policy in such situations.  And
>I imagine he won't be bumped from this list.

that's correct.


>But we SHOULD rub his nose in it.

and your's as well.

kim


______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun  3 14:59:41 2002
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Subject: Re: THIS IS FOR REAL. (Ejection proposal)
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 18:56:49 +0000
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<< What's the procedure for bringing to the floor the 
proposal that "Bill/Las Vegas" be permanently ejected 
from the list? >>

Smear Orange Marmalade over ones genitals and 
scream 'woo woo woo' as loud as you can!
> >Check this out, someone let me know if this is for real. I dont have
> >micro soft. Scroll way down. Bill/Las Vegas
> 
> 
> What's the procedure for bringing to the floor the proposal that "Bill/Las
> Vegas" be permanently ejected from the list?
> 
> ---
> * just-john@just-john.com  http://just-john.com/cn/rfe.shtml *
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun  3 15:20:05 2002
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Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 12:16:47 -0700
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: Alex Stahl <alex@pixar.com>
Subject: License plate sighting
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OK, so I'm driving to work today which for me means crossing 40th on 
San Pablo in Emeryville, CA. There's this big auto glass shop there 
called MAZ. I know them pretty well since I carry my studio around in 
my car often enough that I'm a regular auto glass customer. Anyway, 
there's a white pickup in the lot with a camper shell, and the 
license plate reads LOOPERS.

So fess up, who is it? I know I'm not alone in this neighborhood...

-Alex S.

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Not me but thats freaky ! :o)

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  COLOR="#0000ff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B>Not me but thats freaky ! :o)</B></FONT></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun  3 15:34:20 2002
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From: "timothy crowe" <seemso@directvinternet.com>
Subject: Re: License plate sighting
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that too is my neighborhood but they're not my plates.

tim

Alex Stahl wrote

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> From: Alex Stahl <alex@pixar.com>
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> References:
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> 	<002d01c20aa1$27a91500$01f8c440@g0wn7>
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> 
> OK, so I'm driving to work today which for me means
crossing 40th on 
> San Pablo in Emeryville, CA. There's this big auto
glass shop there 
> called MAZ. I know them pretty well since I carry my
studio around in 
> my car often enough that I'm a regular auto glass
customer. Anyway, 
> there's a white pickup in the lot with a camper
shell, and the 
> license plate reads LOOPERS.
> 
> So fess up, who is it? I know I'm not alone in this
neighborhood...
> 
> -Alex S.


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun  3 15:59:37 2002
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From: "Brother Sean" <info@brothersean.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Looper Moving!
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 14:57:40 -0500
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After being on this list now for around 8 months I have to say I'm quite
jealous of you California Loopers.
Having LoopStock and all I just can't resist anymore I feel compelled to
move closer to the action.
 
Currently I'm located in Chicago, IL. I'm considering moving near the
bay area but very concerned
about the cost of living. (Chicago isn't so inexpensive either but I
have heard frightening things about San Francisco)
I'm a freelance web developer and money is tight right now.
 
Can any of you locals suggest any small towns within 50 - 100 miles of
San Francisco that have a reasonable
cost of living. (Reasonable meaning being able to buy a house for under
$150,000) I'm sorry if my question is rather
vague but I figure house cost is a good place to start. I don't mind
living somewhat in the middle of nowhere either.
 
Thanks a bunch!
Kevin McPeak
info@brothersean.com
 
 

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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>After being on this list now for around 8 months I =
have to
say I&#8217;m quite jealous of you California <span =
class=3DSpellE>Loopers</span>.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Having <span class=3DSpellE>LoopStock</span> and all =
I just
can&#8217;t resist anymore I feel compelled to move closer to the =
action.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Currently I&#8217;m located in =
</span></font><st1:place><st1:City><font
  size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Chicago</span></font></st1:C=
ity><font
 size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>, =
</span></font><st1:State><font
  size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>IL</span></font></st1:State>=
</st1:place><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>. I&#8217;m
considering moving near the bay area but very =
concerned<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DGramE><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>about</span></font></span><f=
ont
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> the cost of
living. (</span></font><st1:City><st1:place><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
  =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Chicago</span></font></st1:p=
lace></st1:City><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> isn&#8217;t
so inexpensive either but I have heard frightening things about =
</span></font><st1:City><st1:place><font
  size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>San
  Francisco</span></font></st1:place></st1:City><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>)<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I&#8217;m a freelance web developer and money is =
tight right
now.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Can any of you locals suggest any small towns within =
50 &#8211;
100 miles of </span></font><st1:City><st1:place><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
  style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>San =
Francisco</span></font></st1:place></st1:City><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> that have a
<span class=3DGramE>reasonable</span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DGramE><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>cost</span></font></span><fo=
nt
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> of living.
(Reasonable meaning being able to buy a house for under $150,000) =
I&#8217;m
sorry if my question is rather<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DGramE><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>vague</span></font></span><f=
ont
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> but I figure
house cost is a good place to start. I don&#8217;t mind living somewhat =
in the
middle of nowhere either.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Thanks a bunch!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Kevin McPeak<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><a =
href=3D"mailto:info@brothersean.com">info@brothersean.com</a><o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun  3 16:06:10 2002
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Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 13:04:13 -0700
From: Richard Zvonar <zvonar@zvonar.com>
Subject: Re: License plate sighting
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At 12:16 PM -0700 6/3/02, Alex Stahl wrote:
>there's a white pickup in the lot with a camper shell, and the 
>license plate reads LOOPERS.

The California DMV has registered these plates:

ALOOPER  
BLOOPER  
LOOPER  
LOOPERS
LOOPER1
4LOOPER

It costs $5 each to find out who they're registered to.
-- 

______________________________________________________________
Richard Zvonar, PhD
(818) 788-2202
http://www.zvonar.com
http://RZCybernetics.com
http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz

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Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 13:19:02 -0700
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From: Kim Flint <kflint@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Re: License plate sighting
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At 12:16 PM 6/3/2002, Alex Stahl wrote:
>OK, so I'm driving to work today which for me means crossing 40th on San 
>Pablo in Emeryville, CA. There's this big auto glass shop there called 
>MAZ. I know them pretty well since I carry my studio around in my car 
>often enough that I'm a regular auto glass customer. Anyway, there's a 
>white pickup in the lot with a camper shell, and the license plate reads 
>LOOPERS.
>
>So fess up, who is it? I know I'm not alone in this neighborhood...

I'm also a regular MAZ customer, but that wasn't me. there are a lot more 
possible loopers around here, it could be anybody....

kim


______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com

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At 2:57 PM -0500 6/3/02, Brother Sean wrote:

>Can any of you locals suggest any small towns within 50 - 100 miles 
>of San Francisco that have a reasonable
  cost of living. (Reasonable meaning being able to buy a house for 
under $150,000)

http://www.bayinsider.com/shared/homes/

You may have to raise your top price to $250,000 though.
-- 

______________________________________________________________
Richard Zvonar, PhD
(818) 788-2202
http://www.zvonar.com
http://RZCybernetics.com
http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun  3 16:38:39 2002
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I hate to say it, but that price range is crazy talk in these parts.
Houses even in sketchy parts seem to fetch $300k and up.  Sorry.  Also,
the SF area seems to be really bad in the web developer market.  I just
heard this morning that 4 of my friends were laid off.  SF is great for
a lot of reasons, but that's why it's so damn expensive to be here.
Good luck,

Mark Sottilaro

Brother Sean wrote:

> After being on this list now for around 8 months I have to say Iím
> quite jealous of you California Loopers.
>
> Having LoopStock and all I just canít resist anymore I feel compelled
> to move closer to the action.
>
> Currently Iím located in Chicago, IL. Iím considering moving near the
> bay area but very concerned
>
> about the cost of living. (Chicago isnít so inexpensive either but I
> have heard frightening things about San Francisco)
>
> Iím a freelance web developer and money is tight right now.
>
> Can any of you locals suggest any small towns within 50 ? 100 miles
> of San Francisco that have areasonable
>
> cost of living. (Reasonable meaning being able to buy a house for
> under $150,000) Iím sorry if my question is rather
>
> vague but I figure house cost is a good place to start. I donít mind
> living somewhat in the middle of nowhere either.
>
> Thanks a bunch!
>
> Kevin McPeak
>
> info@brothersean.com
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun  3 16:39:32 2002
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hahahaha, you must be joking. according to a recent SF chronicle story, the 
median home price in the bay area is now the highest ever, despite the 
economy, at $402,000. That includes all the bad neighborhoods and poor 
urban areas. You'll have to go more than 100 miles away to own a home for 
150K, like perhaps Nevada. Of course, traffic is so bad that commuting from 
100 miles away with all the other suburban refugees will take you longer 
than it takes to fly here from Chicago.

And you're a web developer? oh sure, you'll find work easy. you and about 
500,000 other recently unemployed dot-commers in the area will be competing 
for the only available job, but assuming you can hack the competition, 
you'll get it!

Pack your bags and come on out! The weather is great here.

kim

At 12:57 PM 6/3/2002, Brother Sean wrote:
>After being on this list now for around 8 months I have to say I m quite 
>jealous of you California Loopers.
>Having LoopStock and all I just can t resist anymore I feel compelled to 
>move closer to the action.
>Currently I m located in Chicago, IL. I m considering moving near the bay 
>area but very concerned
>about the cost of living. (Chicago isn t so inexpensive either but I have 
>heard frightening things about San Francisco) I m a freelance web 
>developer and money is tight right now.
>
>Can any of you locals suggest any small towns within 50 100 miles of San 
>Francisco that have a reasonable
>cost of living. (Reasonable meaning being able to buy a house for under 
>$150,000) I m sorry if my question is rather
>vague but I figure house cost is a good place to start. I don t mind 
>living somewhat in the middle of nowhere either.

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun  3 16:49:21 2002
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From: "Brother Sean" <info@brothersean.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: RE: Looper Moving!
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 15:46:54 -0500
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Thanks for the realty check fellows, I still would like to be closer to
the action but maybe bay area California has got enough loopers for now.
Although it seems as if all of California is pretty crazy expensive. Not
to use you guys as my virtual real estate agent or anything but is this
high cost of living pretty consistent throughout California. I've only
visited San Diego and I felt that while being a suburban jungle it
seemed like it had a rather high cost of living as well. Any thoughts
from Southern, CA loopers...

Again, thanks a lot for your advice!
Kevin
Brother Sean
www.brothersean.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Kim Flint [mailto:kflint@loopers-delight.com] 
Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 3:40 PM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Looper Moving!

hahahaha, you must be joking. according to a recent SF chronicle story,
the 
median home price in the bay area is now the highest ever, despite the 
economy, at $402,000. That includes all the bad neighborhoods and poor 
urban areas. You'll have to go more than 100 miles away to own a home
for 
150K, like perhaps Nevada. Of course, traffic is so bad that commuting
from 
100 miles away with all the other suburban refugees will take you longer

than it takes to fly here from Chicago.

And you're a web developer? oh sure, you'll find work easy. you and
about 
500,000 other recently unemployed dot-commers in the area will be
competing 
for the only available job, but assuming you can hack the competition, 
you'll get it!

Pack your bags and come on out! The weather is great here.

kim

At 12:57 PM 6/3/2002, Brother Sean wrote:
>After being on this list now for around 8 months I have to say I m
quite 
>jealous of you California Loopers.
>Having LoopStock and all I just can t resist anymore I feel compelled
to 
>move closer to the action.
>Currently I m located in Chicago, IL. I m considering moving near the
bay 
>area but very concerned
>about the cost of living. (Chicago isn t so inexpensive either but I
have 
>heard frightening things about San Francisco) I m a freelance web 
>developer and money is tight right now.
>
>Can any of you locals suggest any small towns within 50 100 miles of
San 
>Francisco that have a reasonable
>cost of living. (Reasonable meaning being able to buy a house for under

>$150,000) I m sorry if my question is rather
>vague but I figure house cost is a good place to start. I don t mind 
>living somewhat in the middle of nowhere either.

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun  3 17:13:20 2002
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Kevin,

In a message dated 6/3/02 1:38:34 PM, kflint@loopers-delight.com writes:

>You'll have to go more than 100 miles away to own a home for 
>150K, like perhaps Nevada. 

Or try Oregon. Medford is only 361 miles away from SF  . . . an easy 5 
to 6-hour commute down the interstate. Heh, heh. And houses in my 
(modest but very nice) neighborhood are only around $125K. 

Sorry to joke about it. Living in the "white hot center" of things is 
expensive (especially if you have a family). That's why I fled north
from sunny California 5+ years ago. I was actually able to BUY
a house here and there's no sales tax!

In Santa Barbara, CA (my home territory) on the central coast,
the median range house goes for $639K. That's too rich for this 
native son's blood . . . and then some.

I often miss what I consider to be my "real home" . . . and the beach.
But hey, CA is still a nice place to visit! My advice would be to stay 
put and make something happen in your own neck of the woods and 
then visit other places as often as you can afford.

Best,

Ted Killian

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun  3 17:16:51 2002
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If you're moving just for the looping, I don't know why you think it'd be better in California than it is in Chicago.  Chicago has a great avant scene, probably better than San Francisco, it's more than 10 times the size!  The job market for developers there is probably better too, since there aren't so many unemployed developers competing for the same slots.

   Kevin

P.S. caveats: I grew up in Chicago, I used to live in San Francisco and I currently live in Seattle, and I'm a software developer too.

--
-------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Goldsmith                          kevin@unitcircle.com
Unit Circle Media                   http://www.unitcircle.com
--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun  3 18:09:55 2002
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Subject: live funk guitar loops
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Hi all,

First of all hello to everyone. I'm a jazz player and am just starting
to get into looping. I'm excited to have stumbled across this list, its
seems like there is a lot knowledgeable folks in the group.

I've had a scan through the archives and don't seem to be able to find
many recommendations for creating funk loops in a live situation. I have
a funk trio (guit,bass,drums) and want to be able to set up and loop the
guitar grooves live. I have the rc-20 but I think I'll have to modify it
to give a click track out for the drummer if everything is to stay in
synch (I'll be starting and stopping the loops depending on where we are
in the arrangement). I really like the quantize aspect of the rc-20
though. Is this something that could be just as easily achieved with the
echoplex?
I'd like to be able set up a tempo (preferably by tapping my foot on a
pedal) and then have the unit auto-start recording my phase when I start
playing and stop recording when I stop playing. This phase would then
get quantized to a perfect 1/2 bar length so that I don't have to mess
around hitting the stop button at exactly the right moment.. as I
mentioned above I would then the unit to generate a click track (that
would be continuous, independent of whether the guitar phrase is playing
or not) that a drummer could listen to to ensure he remains synched up
for the duration of the performance. This ensures that I can stop/start
the loop and it will always be in synch with the drummer.

Is this a tall order, can I do this with the echoplex and some
imagination?

Appreciate any insight, -simon-


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Hey Kevin,

why don't you move to Munich/Germany. If all works out well, we'll have our
own Loopstock shortly...alas, for $150000, you'll perhaps get a decent loo
if you're lucky, even given the great exchange rates (from your view, or the
view of German car manufacturers...)

Cheers,

            Rainer

Rainer Straschill
Moinlabs GFX and Soundworks - www.moinlabs.de
digital penis expert group - www.dpeg.de
The MoinSound Archives - www.mp3.com/moinlabs
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Brother Sean [mailto:info@brothersean.com]
  Sent: Montag, 3. Juni 2002 21:58
  To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
  Subject: Looper Moving!


  After being on this list now for around 8 months I have to say I'm quite
jealous of you California Loopers.

  Having LoopStock and all I just can't resist anymore I feel compelled to
move closer to the action.



  Currently I'm located in Chicago, IL. I'm considering moving near the bay
area but very concerned

  about the cost of living. (Chicago isn't so inexpensive either but I have
heard frightening things about San Francisco)

  I'm a freelance web developer and money is tight right now.



  Can any of you locals suggest any small towns within 50 - 100 miles of San
Francisco that have a reasonable

  cost of living. (Reasonable meaning being able to buy a house for under
$150,000) I'm sorry if my question is rather

  vague but I figure house cost is a good place to start. I don't mind
living somewhat in the middle of nowhere either.



  Thanks a bunch!

  Kevin McPeak

  info@brothersean.com






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<BODY lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue style=3D"tab-interval: .5in" =
vLink=3Dpurple>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D874471022-03062002>Hey=20
Kevin,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D874471022-03062002></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D874471022-03062002>why=20
don't you move to Munich/Germany. If all works out well, we'll have our =
own=20
Loopstock shortly...alas, for $150000, you'll perhaps get a decent loo =
if you're=20
lucky, even given the great exchange rates (from your view, or the view =
of=20
German car manufacturers...)</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D874471022-03062002></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D874471022-03062002>Cheers,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D874471022-03062002></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D874471022-03062002>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Rainer</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rainer Straschill</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Moinlabs GFX and Soundworks - =
</FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.moinlabs.de/">www.moinlabs.de</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>digital penis expert group - <A=20
href=3D"http://www.dpeg.de/">www.dpeg.de</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The MoinSound Archives - <A=20
href=3D"http://www.mp3.com/moinlabs">www.mp3.com/moinlabs</A></FONT></DIV=
>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
  <DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Brother Sean=20
  [mailto:info@brothersean.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Montag, 3. Juni 2002=20
  21:58<BR><B>To:</B> =
Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com<BR><B>Subject:</B>=20
  Looper Moving!<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
  <DIV class=3DSection1>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">After being on this list =
now for=20
  around 8 months I have to say I&#8217;m quite jealous of you =
California <SPAN=20
  class=3DSpellE>Loopers</SPAN>.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Having <SPAN=20
  class=3DSpellE>LoopStock</SPAN> and all I just can&#8217;t resist =
anymore I feel=20
  compelled to move closer to the action.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Currently I&#8217;m =
located in=20
  </SPAN></FONT><st1:place><st1:City><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">Chicago</SPAN></FONT></st1:City><FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">,=20
  </SPAN></FONT><st1:State><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">IL</SPAN></FONT></st1:State></st1:place><FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">. I&#8217;m=20
  considering moving near the bay area but very=20
  concerned<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DGramE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">about</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"> the cost=20
  of living. (</SPAN></FONT><st1:City><st1:place><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">Chicago</SPAN></FONT></st1:place></st1:City><FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"> isn&#8217;t so=20
  inexpensive either but I have heard frightening things about=20
  </SPAN></FONT><st1:City><st1:place><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">San=20
  Francisco</SPAN></FONT></st1:place></st1:City><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I&#8217;m a freelance =
web developer and=20
  money is tight right now.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Can any of you locals =
suggest any=20
  small towns within 50 &#8211; 100 miles of =
</SPAN></FONT><st1:City><st1:place><FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">San=20
  Francisco</SPAN></FONT></st1:place></st1:City><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> that have a <SPAN=20
  class=3DGramE>reasonable</SPAN><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DGramE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">cost</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"> of=20
  living. (Reasonable meaning being able to buy a house for under =
$150,000) I&#8217;m=20
  sorry if my question is rather<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DGramE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">vague</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"> but I=20
  figure house cost is a good place to start. I don&#8217;t mind living =
somewhat in=20
  the middle of nowhere either.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Thanks a=20
  bunch!<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Kevin=20
  McPeak<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:info@brothersean.com">info@brothersean.com</A><o:p></o:p><=
/SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><SPAN=20
  style=3D"mso-spacerun: =
yes">&nbsp;</SPAN><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY>=
</HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C20B5C.7F8F7500--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun  3 18:17:37 2002
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Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 15:13:21 -0700
From: Andre LaFosse <altruist@altruistmusic.com>
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Subject: Re: Looper Moving!
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Yo Kevin,

> After being on this list now for around 8 months I have to say I’m quite jealous of you California  > Loopers.

> Having LoopStock and all I just can’t resist anymore I feel compelled to move closer to the action.

Well, let me give you my own perspective on the "action," so to speak,
from my vantage point in Los Angeles:

Loopstock had an amazing sense of community, and it was pretty
remarkable to see how many different loop-based artists are located
reasonably close to the central Californian coast.  But, although you
could say there's a "scene" here, it's one of an extremely fragmentary
nature.  

What I mean by that is that I see people like Rick Walker, Hans
Lindauer, Kim Flint, Max Valentino, or Richard Zvonar once every few
months (if even that), and that's on account of going well out of my way
to do so.  It's a great pleasure to be able to interact with these and
other Californian loopers, but it's not easy logistically or financially.

Closer to home, Los Angeles is infamous for being fragmentary and
disconnected, so it's no surprise that cultivating a sense of looping
community here has been difficult.  Occasionally Rick Walker will ask me
about the LA Looping Scene, and I have to reply that there IS no LA
Looping Scene, at least as far as I'm aware.  

The last two solo looping gigs I played drew one and zero people,
respectively.  That's not a complaint; I'd like to see LA list members
that do play out, like Stig and Andrew Pask, more often than I do (I've
never seen Andrew, as a matter of fact, though I'd very much like to),
but seeing a gig "here in town" can frequently mean battling freeway
traffic for a half hour of more.  So I understand that schedules don't
often work out for people.  But this sort of thing does tend to cast a
sobering light on the notion of "looping scenes" and their impact on
one's day-to-day existence.

I'm not qualified to speak authoritatively about the Bay Area scene from
an insider's point of view.  I do know that Rick Walker has been endless
in his enthusiasm and drive to cultivate a sense of looping awareness
and community, and he deserves an immense amount of credit for helping
to solidify a notion of a California looping "scene" of any sort.  

Hans Lindauer has also done incredible work, and has been utterly
selfless in spending time and energy trying to facilitate things for us
on the West Coast.  Max Valentino and I did some shows together in San
Luis Obispo at the end of March, and Hans was unbelievably together and
supportive on all fronts.

But frankly, gigs aren't THAT frequent.  If you check the list archive
for gig announcements in the last year of two, I think you'll find that
there just aren't that many performances happening in California.  And
if they ARE happening, people aren't publicizing them very much, which
gets back to the issue of how fragmentary the "scene" here actually is. 
It's not like the New York bebop scene in the 1940's, or the CBGB's punk
scene in the '70s, or the British IDM scene in the '90s.  

I'm not exaggerating when I say that you could probably fly out to every
major (and even many of the non-major) California loop gig that's been
held in the last year and be about as plugged into "the scene" as if you
were living here full time.  And you'd probably also be in better shape 
financially.

This doesn't mean that there isn't a very cool and tangible sense of
being involved in something here in California.  It doesn't mean that I
don't very much appreciate being within reasonable geographic distance
of all the wonderfull people I've mentioned (and many I haven't, like
Sean Echevarria, Cliff Novey, Gary Lehman, Jon Wagner, Bill Walker, Tom
Heasley, Mark Sottillaro, and the folks I'm sure I'll remember just as
soon as I send this email off... apologies to you deserving folks I'm
forgetting right this second).

What it DOES mean is that, in my opinion, the scene here is very fragmentary,
sporadic in its convergence, and only just starting to emerge as
something with tangible structure and order to it, thanks to the
efforts of a few people who have been working away at it for years.  

In other words, if you move out to California for the "looping scene," I
think you're going to spend a hell of a lot of time waiting around for a
handful of gigs to happen.

Anyway, this is enough out of me.  I'd be curious to hear other people's
take on this as well...

Take care,

--Andre LaFosse
http://www.altruistmusic.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun  3 18:38:50 2002
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Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 15:33:09 -0700
From: Richard Zvonar <zvonar@zvonar.com>
Subject: Re: Looper Moving!
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At 3:13 PM -0700 6/3/02, Andre LaFosse wrote:

>Well, let me give you my own perspective on the "action," so to speak,
>from my vantage point in Los Angeles:
>
>Los Angeles is infamous for being fragmentary and disconnected, so 
>it's no surprise that cultivating a sense of looping community here 
>has been difficult...the scene here is very fragmentary, sporadic in 
>its convergence, and only just starting to emerge as something with 
>tangible structure and order to it, thanks to the efforts of a few 
>people who have been working away at it for years.

I've lived in Los Angeles since 1986, and for the first fourteen 
years of that I felt completely disconnected from any sort of scene. 
That doesn't mean that there was none, just that it took a great deal 
of effort to find whatever there might have been and I didn't bother. 
Then two years ago, as part of some personal creative renewal, I 
joined the newly formed LA chapter of American Composers Forum. I 
started doing volunteer work for the Forum and made some new friends 
who were also keen on building a creative community. It worked out 
pretty well, and now we have a viable organization with regular 
get-togethers, Composer Salons, professional development workshops, 
etc. We even have a performance calendar (both on paper and on the 
Web) so there's a central information source for performance 
information. A group of us are in the midst of organizing some 
technology programs.

Check us out at: <http://www.composers.la>
-- 

______________________________________________________________
Richard Zvonar, PhD
(818) 788-2202
http://www.zvonar.com
http://RZCybernetics.com
http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun  3 19:05:39 2002
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My 2 cents--
No matter where you live, it's a necessity to "make the scene", that is,
find out where folks of similar ilk congregate and hang out there as much as
possible.  I don't do that now, but I made the effort while in LA for 8
months, and it was worthwhile--although I was perhaps too vocal in my
criticism of some of the acts I caught.
I'm in San Diego now, and it is pricey here too--not as much as SF or LA
perhaps--and there is an active live music scene here, again possibly not as
vital as the other California metropoli--
I haven't heard from any other loopers in this area, nor seen any gigs
advertised--lots of disco stuff--folks love to party, don't they?.
How about it, San Diego loopers--where are ya?
Gary

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun  3 19:15:25 2002
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From: Peter Prisekin aka Dusty Chalk <dusty@patriot.net>
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 BASED MUSIC LIST!)
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The funniest thing about this thread (besides Mr. Sottilaro) 
is that it triggered the following serious thought:  
do loopers know how to quit?

This has been a frustration for me lately.  There are the 
obvious two choices:  repeat and fade, and abrupt stop 
(usually during a rest).  Also, there's the obvious variation
of de-evolution -- I.E., if you've built up a loop with layers,
deconstruct it back down by removing layers, but when you're
down to the last loop, be it the one you started with, or a
different one, you still have to make one of the two above
choices.  I've been thinking of trying to "morph" from a loop
to live playing, but have not been successful in an accurate
resemblance of the loop, so I usually go for a completely
different sound, but maybe playing the same riff.  Any other
ideas?

Favourite license plate (un-loop-related):  PLAN A (and then
written on the bumper: "HEAD")
-- 
I remain,
:-Peter aka :-Dusty :-Chalk

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun  3 19:16:05 2002
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From: Henry Heine <henry@bagend.com>
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To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Jon Brion
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Hello Loopers,

Any LA folks know whether Jon Brion still has the steady Friday night gig at Largo in Hollywood?

I catch this show every time I visit Los Angeles, 2 or 3 times a year. While he is not explicitly avant garde, his looping chops are impressive. Hell, all his chops are
impressive, drums, bass, guitar, keys, vibes, I bet he could play just about any instrument with maybe a few minutes practice. Oh, he's a great singer and writer, too.
ouch! 

Well, does anyone know what he uses to loop? The stage is crammed with instruments, and gizmos and stomp boxes.

If you haven't seen him, check him out.

Henry Heine

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Subject: Re: THIS IS FOR REAL. (Ejection proposal)
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Banish all "evil doers"...just kidding :)

Warm Regards, 
JP/AKASH
"The World's Most Erotic Band" 
<A HREF="http://www.mp3.com/akashmusic">http://www.mp3.com/akashmusic</A>












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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Banish all "evil doers"...just kidding :)<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Warm Regards, <BR>
JP/AKASH<BR>
"The World's Most Erotic Band" <BR>
<A HREF="http://www.mp3.com/akashmusic">http://www.mp3.com/akashmusic</A><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun  3 19:35:09 2002
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Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 19:33:54 -0400
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: just john <just-john@just-john.com>
Subject: Re: Loopers do it repeatedly (was Re: Fw: THIS IS FOR REAL. (THIS
 IS A LOOP   BASED MUSIC LIST!)
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>The funniest thing about this thread (besides Mr. Sottilaro)
>is that it triggered the following serious thought:
>do loopers know how to quit?
>
>This has been a frustration for me lately.  There are the
>obvious two choices:  repeat and fade, and abrupt stop
>(usually during a rest).  Also, there's the obvious variation
>of de-evolution -- I.E., if you've built up a loop with layers,
>deconstruct it back down by removing layers, but when you're
>down to the last loop, be it the one you started with, or a
>different one, you still have to make one of the two above
>choices.  I've been thinking of trying to "morph" from a loop
>to live playing, but have not been successful in an accurate
>resemblance of the loop, so I usually go for a completely
>different sound, but maybe playing the same riff.  Any other
>ideas?

(There's the ever-popular train wreck, ie: something breaks.  Every reel of
tape I have has stuff of mine stopping accidently at the end of the tape,
as well as batteries dying, desktops freezing and cables getting tripped
over.  I've sometimes fantasized about basing a concert on this --- "That
was the sound of my laptop crashing.  For the next few minutes while it
reboots, allow me to treat you to variations on a Kaoss Pad ...")

But yes, your talk of morphing "from a loop to live playing" strikes a
chord cuz I've often thought of trying just the opposite direction.  IE:
Doing something and sampling it, and then crossfading from the performance
to the looped sample.
---
* just-john@just-john.com  http://just-john.com/cn/rfe.shtml *

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Hi I'm new to the list, though, I've lurked around the LD site for a =
long time.

I just added an RC-20 to my rig which includes a 'Rang and a few =
processors. =20

I was wondering if anyone here knows where I can find a Lovetone Ring =
Stinger.  I've looked in the obvious places but it appears they are =
becoming difficult to find.

thanks


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</HEAD>
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi I'm new to the list, though, I've =
lurked around=20
the LD site for a long time.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I just added an RC-20 to my rig which =
includes a=20
'Rang and a few processors.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I was wondering if anyone here knows =
where I can=20
find a Lovetone Ring Stinger.&nbsp; I've looked in the obvious places =
but it=20
appears they are becoming difficult to find.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun  3 19:59:24 2002
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From: "Rick Walker/Loop.pooL" <GLOBAL@cruzio.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
References: <200206032039.QAA04817@hemlock.violacea.com>
Subject: 1st EMERYVILLE LOOPING FESTIVAL?
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 16:58:20 -0700
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Reading the license plate thread I notice that Alex, Timothy, Kim and the,
as yet unamed,
mystery license plate looper all live in or near Emeryville.

Why hasn't there been an EMERYVILLE LOOPING FESTIVAL?

I'd come be a guest artist, gratis, if you guys threw such a
thing.............  :-)


yours,  Rick Walker (that obnoxious looping festival fella)

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun  3 20:12:18 2002
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Subject: Re: 1st EMERYVILLE LOOPING FESTIVAL?
From: Stan Card <stanitarium@earthlink.net>
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sounds good-i would love to make a pilgrimage across the river(bay)...
<loopin surfee> @ stanitarium in sf.

> 
> Reading the license plate thread I notice that Alex, Timothy, Kim and the,
> as yet unamed,
> mystery license plate looper all live in or near Emeryville.
> 
> Why hasn't there been an EMERYVILLE LOOPING FESTIVAL?
> 
> I'd come be a guest artist, gratis, if you guys threw such a
> thing.............  :-)
> 
> 
> yours,  Rick Walker (that obnoxious looping festival fella)
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun  3 20:14:24 2002
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> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
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i got one and its the wackiest box in the world-hard to use tho'.
i'd probably let it go fer the correct loot...
s

H 
I was wondering if anyone here knows where I can find a Lovetone Ring
Stinger.  I've looked in the obvious places but it appears they are becoming
difficult to find.
 
thanks
 




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<HTML>
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i got one and its the wackiest box in the world-hard to use tho'.<BR>
i'd probably let it go fer the correct loot...<BR>
s<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial">H</FONT></FONT> <BR>
<FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial">I was wondering if anyone here knows wher=
e I can find a Lovetone Ring Stinger. &nbsp;I've looked in the obvious place=
s but it appears they are becoming difficult to find.<BR>
</FONT></FONT> <BR>
<FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial">thanks<BR>
</FONT></FONT> <BR>
<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun  3 20:14:26 2002
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X-Files: the truth is out there 
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Subject: Re: 1st EMERYVILLE LOOPING FESTIVAL?
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Kim only plays under duress (applied by either Matthias and/or Andre).


At 04:58 PM 2002/06/03 -0700, Rick wrote:

>Reading the license plate thread I notice that Alex, Timothy, Kim and the,
>as yet unamed,
>mystery license plate looper all live in or near Emeryville.
>
>Why hasn't there been an EMERYVILLE LOOPING FESTIVAL?
>
>I'd come be a guest artist, gratis, if you guys threw such a
>thing.............  :-)
>
>
>yours,  Rick Walker (that obnoxious looping festival fella)

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun  3 20:16:30 2002
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Hey there Richard,

Thanks for the information regarding the ACF; I looked at the site and
it's definitely an intriguing orgnanization.  I certainly concur that
there are a lot of very worthwhile and viable "scenes" within LA, and
that it often takes a bit of effort to seek them out.

At the same time, though, I can't help but feel that it doesn't really
address the idea (such as it is) of an LA "looping scene," you know? 
That, to me, is the fundamental issue of the thread - a guy thinking
about moving out here to be part of the "big California loop scene," and
the underlying question of, "Well, how much of a loop scene is there, really?"

So the ACF, to me, doesn't really deal with the issue of a "looping
scene" as such, because it's based (as far as I can tell) around areas
of musical style and genre (in a general sense) rather than areas of
musical technique.  What if someone wants to present a loop based
approach that's totally improvised and doesn't involve composition? 
What if it owes more to dance and DJ culture than the academic or "new
music" world?  What if someone's using amazing Repeater technique in a
live rock band?  The ACF doesn't seem to offer an outlet for these sorts
of issues.

And I also think this ultimately gets back to the age old issue of "Is
looping a style of music, or is it a technique that crosses different
styles?"  For instance, just a few minutes ago a fellow posted a
question about Jon Brion to the list, and felt the need to qualify his
inquiry by saying "While he is not explicitly avant garde, his looping
chops are impressive."  That says a lot right there, you know?

The fact that people might tend to equate looping with any particular
genre or style of music is potentially problematic, I think.  (And
probably a huge obstacle towards truly creating a scene that can cross
stylstic boundaries...)  

Anyway, this has been on my mind quite a bit, of late...

Best wishes,

--Andre LaFosse
http://www.altruistmusic.com




Richard Zvonar wrote:
> 
> At 3:13 PM -0700 6/3/02, Andre LaFosse wrote:
> 
> >Well, let me give you my own perspective on the "action," so to speak,
> >from my vantage point in Los Angeles:
> >
> >Los Angeles is infamous for being fragmentary and disconnected, so
> >it's no surprise that cultivating a sense of looping community here
> >has been difficult...the scene here is very fragmentary, sporadic in
> >its convergence, and only just starting to emerge as something with
> >tangible structure and order to it, thanks to the efforts of a few
> >people who have been working away at it for years.
> 
> I've lived in Los Angeles since 1986, and for the first fourteen
> years of that I felt completely disconnected from any sort of scene.
> That doesn't mean that there was none, just that it took a great deal
> of effort to find whatever there might have been and I didn't bother.
> Then two years ago, as part of some personal creative renewal, I
> joined the newly formed LA chapter of American Composers Forum. I
> started doing volunteer work for the Forum and made some new friends
> who were also keen on building a creative community. It worked out
> pretty well, and now we have a viable organization with regular
> get-togethers, Composer Salons, professional development workshops,
> etc. We even have a performance calendar (both on paper and on the
> Web) so there's a central information source for performance
> information. A group of us are in the midst of organizing some
> technology programs.
> 
> Check us out at: <http://www.composers.la>
> --
> 
> ______________________________________________________________
> Richard Zvonar, PhD
> (818) 788-2202
> http://www.zvonar.com
> http://RZCybernetics.com
> http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
> http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun  3 20:24:12 2002
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From: "Gary Lehmann" <healthquestrecruiter@earthlink.net>
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Subject: RE: 1st EMERYVILLE LOOPING FESTIVAL?
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 17:23:07 -0700
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"I know, let's put on a show!". 
Gary (the Mickey Rooney look alike)

-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Walker/Loop.pooL [mailto:GLOBAL@cruzio.com]
Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 4:58 PM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: 1st EMERYVILLE LOOPING FESTIVAL?



Reading the license plate thread I notice that Alex, Timothy, Kim and the,
as yet unamed,
mystery license plate looper all live in or near Emeryville.

Why hasn't there been an EMERYVILLE LOOPING FESTIVAL?

I'd come be a guest artist, gratis, if you guys threw such a
thing.............  :-)


yours,  Rick Walker (that obnoxious looping festival fella)

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Subject: Re: hi
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Re: hiHi Stan, how correct is correct? ;-)
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Stan Card=20
  To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 1:11 AM
  Subject: Re: hi


  i got one and its the wackiest box in the world-hard to use tho'.
  i'd probably let it go fer the correct loot...
  s


    H=20
    I was wondering if anyone here knows where I can find a Lovetone =
Ring Stinger.  I've looked in the obvious places but it appears they are =
becoming difficult to find.

    thanks






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<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Re: hi</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Stan, how correct is correct? =
;-)</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dstanitarium@earthlink.net=20
  href=3D"mailto:stanitarium@earthlink.net">Stan Card</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  title=3DLoopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@loope=
rs-delight.com</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, June 04, 2002 =
1:11=20
AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: hi</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>i got one and its the wackiest box in the world-hard to =
use=20
  tho'.<BR>i'd probably let it go fer the correct loot...<BR>s<BR><BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial>H</FONT></FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
    size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial>I was wondering if anyone here knows =
where I can=20
    find a Lovetone Ring Stinger. &nbsp;I've looked in the obvious =
places but it=20
    appears they are becoming difficult to =
find.<BR></FONT></FONT><BR><FONT=20
    size=3D2><FONT=20
face=3DArial>thanks<BR></FONT></FONT><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></BLOCKQUOT=
E></BODY></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun  3 20:33:12 2002
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Subject: Re: Looper Moving! - scenes, genres, and distinctions
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glad all this got brought up.  here's why:

i'm 22, i graduate college (degree: english) in about 
2 months and am 99% sure i'll be in california in 
january.

now, from everything i've read, i'd love to be NEAR 
san francisco but not IN the city.  i've read that 
berkeley, oakland, etc. aren't significantly cheaper 
(i'll be renting...obviously).  

so what about places like petaluma and places that may 
be no more than 2 hours away?  i would imagine that 
the prices would drop by the time your an hour out.

oh, i use my looping exclusively in a rock band.  just 
like having 5 of myself, only we have to take turns.

any and all advice is welcome!

thanks.

-jim

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun  3 20:44:27 2002
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Max Valentino loves Tehachapi--close to LA and affordable.
You can live on the outskirts of San Diego (60-80 miles) for reasonable
coin.
I'm in Poway (north of Mira Mesa, where Tom Cruise is Top Gun) and it's
pricey little suburb--somehow our 30 year old house is now worth nearly
$300K!  I have this feeling that prices are about to come down,
statewide--but it's always speculation . . .
If I had my choices, I would think SANTA CRUZ would be the place--kindred
spirits!!! (and venues--and I think busking!)
Gary

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Just wondering if there were any people on the list from the Kansas City =
area. =20

mark

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Just wondering if there were any people =
on the list=20
from the Kansas City area.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>mark</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun  3 21:09:02 2002
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Subject: Re: Looper Moving! - scenes, genres, and distinctions
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At 5:12 PM -0700 6/3/02, Andre LaFosse wrote:

>Thanks for the information regarding the ACF; I looked at the site 
>and it's definitely an intriguing orgnanization...At the same time, 
>though, I can't help but feel that it doesn't really address the 
>idea (such as it is) of an LA "looping scene," you know?

I brought up ACF not as a specific example of a "looping scene" but 
as an example of a non-pop "music scene" in Los Angeles. The point I 
was trying to make is that you have to create your own scene by 
working with whatever tools come to hand. ACF works for me and it's 
an inclusive enough organization that it might also benefit other 
members of this group.

>That, to me, is the fundamental issue of the thread - a guy thinking
>about moving out here to be part of the "big California loop scene," and
>the underlying question of, "Well, how much of a loop scene is there, really?"

And I thought the thread had moved past that initial discussion into 
one about the nature of the West Coast scene and some analysis of 
what you have to do to build a community.


>areas of musical style and genre (in a general sense) rather than areas of
>musical technique.

If technique is your main concern then I can see why ACF wouldn't 
appeal to you. Our community is musically pluralistic and our 
techniques are varied. Some people are doing improvisational 
electroacoustic music and some people are writing sacred choral 
music. It's all interesting to me


>What if someone wants to present a loop based approach that's 
>totally improvised and doesn't involve composition?

Not an issue.

I'm not sure I think in terms of "total improvisation" - for me it's 
more like "real-time composition."

>What if it owes more to dance and DJ culture than the academic or "new
>music" world?

Even less of an issue.

We're actively interested in bringing dance and DJ practitioners into 
our group.


>What if someone's using amazing Repeater technique in a live rock band?

Great!

>The ACF doesn't seem to offer an outlet for these sorts of issues.

Does that mean our Web site is too fancy?

>the age old issue of "Is looping a style of music, or is it a 
>technique that crosses different styles?"

"Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn."  It's both, depending on who 
is doing it and a what moment he/she is doing it. For instance, I 
don't particularly think of myself as "a looper" but I use looping 
tools and techniques in my music. I have never aspired to the 
technical prowess that you and some other loopers have achieved, but 
I sure dig what you are able to do on BOTH a technical and a musical 
level.


>The fact that people might tend to equate looping with any particular
>genre or style of music is potentially problematic

Yes.
-- 

______________________________________________________________
Richard Zvonar, PhD
(818) 788-2202
http://www.zvonar.com
http://RZCybernetics.com
http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun  3 21:26:16 2002
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I see your point, Andre, but I also think that bigger cities seem to harbor populations that are more interested in
music that's beyond the usual Mustang Sally cover.  While I agree, that not much "scene" exists among loopers, I
think it might be more our fault than a geographical issue.  I started looping when my pop band disintegrated,
after our drummer left.  I felt I had spent a lot of time and energy forging a relationship with the other band
members, and it hit a brick wall because the drummer got offered a paying gig in a country band.  I never wanted to
be in that situation again.  I first picked up a workstation style keyboard, and then a JamMan quickly followed.

I still play with other people, when I can, but I don't relay on having other musicians around to play.  Case in
point: Our stick player is swamped with getting a grant proposal together.  We're got a gig (hidden gig spam!) this
Friday at 21Grand in Oakland (http://www.21grand.org/) and she announced on Sunday she can't do the gig.  Rather
than it being an issue of canceling the show, we'll play anyway, knowing I'm more than used to providing bass
parts.  She'll be missed, but it's not a hardship.  Maybe this is why we loopers don't form a more solid scene.

However, I've found an incredible amount of people that seem to be interested in what I'm doing, compared to when I
lived in Syracuse, NY.  Ithaca was hip, but not even close to the audiences I'm finding here in the SF bay area.

I'm a loner, Dotty.

Pee-Wee

Andre LaFosse wrote:

> Yo Kevin,
>
> > After being on this list now for around 8 months I have to say I’m quite jealous of you California  > Loopers.
>
> > Having LoopStock and all I just can’t resist anymore I feel compelled to move closer to the action.
>
> Well, let me give you my own perspective on the "action," so to speak,
> from my vantage point in Los Angeles:
>
> Loopstock had an amazing sense of community, and it was pretty
> remarkable to see how many different loop-based artists are located
> reasonably close to the central Californian coast.  But, although you
> could say there's a "scene" here, it's one of an extremely fragmentary
> nature.
>
> What I mean by that is that I see people like Rick Walker, Hans
> Lindauer, Kim Flint, Max Valentino, or Richard Zvonar once every few
> months (if even that), and that's on account of going well out of my way
> to do so.  It's a great pleasure to be able to interact with these and
> other Californian loopers, but it's not easy logistically or financially.
>
> Closer to home, Los Angeles is infamous for being fragmentary and
> disconnected, so it's no surprise that cultivating a sense of looping
> community here has been difficult.  Occasionally Rick Walker will ask me
> about the LA Looping Scene, and I have to reply that there IS no LA
> Looping Scene, at least as far as I'm aware.
>
> The last two solo looping gigs I played drew one and zero people,
> respectively.  That's not a complaint; I'd like to see LA list members
> that do play out, like Stig and Andrew Pask, more often than I do (I've
> never seen Andrew, as a matter of fact, though I'd very much like to),
> but seeing a gig "here in town" can frequently mean battling freeway
> traffic for a half hour of more.  So I understand that schedules don't
> often work out for people.  But this sort of thing does tend to cast a
> sobering light on the notion of "looping scenes" and their impact on
> one's day-to-day existence.
>
> I'm not qualified to speak authoritatively about the Bay Area scene from
> an insider's point of view.  I do know that Rick Walker has been endless
> in his enthusiasm and drive to cultivate a sense of looping awareness
> and community, and he deserves an immense amount of credit for helping
> to solidify a notion of a California looping "scene" of any sort.
>
> Hans Lindauer has also done incredible work, and has been utterly
> selfless in spending time and energy trying to facilitate things for us
> on the West Coast.  Max Valentino and I did some shows together in San
> Luis Obispo at the end of March, and Hans was unbelievably together and
> supportive on all fronts.
>
> But frankly, gigs aren't THAT frequent.  If you check the list archive
> for gig announcements in the last year of two, I think you'll find that
> there just aren't that many performances happening in California.  And
> if they ARE happening, people aren't publicizing them very much, which
> gets back to the issue of how fragmentary the "scene" here actually is.
> It's not like the New York bebop scene in the 1940's, or the CBGB's punk
> scene in the '70s, or the British IDM scene in the '90s.
>
> I'm not exaggerating when I say that you could probably fly out to every
> major (and even many of the non-major) California loop gig that's been
> held in the last year and be about as plugged into "the scene" as if you
> were living here full time.  And you'd probably also be in better shape
> financially.
>
> This doesn't mean that there isn't a very cool and tangible sense of
> being involved in something here in California.  It doesn't mean that I
> don't very much appreciate being within reasonable geographic distance
> of all the wonderfull people I've mentioned (and many I haven't, like
> Sean Echevarria, Cliff Novey, Gary Lehman, Jon Wagner, Bill Walker, Tom
> Heasley, Mark Sottillaro, and the folks I'm sure I'll remember just as
> soon as I send this email off... apologies to you deserving folks I'm
> forgetting right this second).
>
> What it DOES mean is that, in my opinion, the scene here is very fragmentary,
> sporadic in its convergence, and only just starting to emerge as
> something with tangible structure and order to it, thanks to the
> efforts of a few people who have been working away at it for years.
>
> In other words, if you move out to California for the "looping scene," I
> think you're going to spend a hell of a lot of time waiting around for a
> handful of gigs to happen.
>
> Anyway, this is enough out of me.  I'd be curious to hear other people's
> take on this as well...
>
> Take care,
>
> --Andre LaFosse
> http://www.altruistmusic.com

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Andre LaFosse wrote:

>
> The fact that people might tend to equate looping with any particular
> genre or style of music is potentially problematic, I think.  (And
> probably a huge obstacle towards truly creating a scene that can cross
> stylstic boundaries...)

Add that point to my last email!  We're all over the map style wise.  Makes
having a set audience nearly impossible, I'd say.

Mark Sottilaro

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re: andrés note that began with:
>Hey there Richard,

a coupla superficial thoughts were engendered:

someday i hope there'll be lots of looping / sonic fuckery & all kindsa 
developments therein, but no static 'scene'.
someday i'd love to hear plenty of music, but in as many styles as there are 
musicians to make 'em.
and, uhh.....
death to the demoness allegra geller!
8-)
eek. what i say.
influence yourself, be influenced by others.
sqwawk.
disingenuously, cheaply & ontheslyfly,
dt / splattercell

IMI-IBI

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henry@bagend.com writes:

>Well, does anyone know what he uses to loop?
no, but there aren't that many choices, are there?
izzit delay-based, or otherwise?
dt / s-c

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Hey there again Mr. Z,

Thanks for adding your customarily insightful dialogue herein.  

> I brought up ACF not as a specific example of a "looping scene" but
> as an example of a non-pop "music scene" in Los Angeles. The point I
> was trying to make is that you have to create your own scene by
> working with whatever tools come to hand... I thought the thread had 
> moved past that initial discussion into
> one about the nature of the West Coast scene and some analysis of
> what you have to do to build a community.

OK, I got ya.  I wasn't sure if you were drawing a connection between
the ACF and looping in general, and I can see that's not really the case.
 
> If technique is your main concern then I can see why ACF wouldn't
> appeal to you. Our community is musically pluralistic and our
> techniques are varied. Some people are doing improvisational
> electroacoustic music and some people are writing sacred choral
> music. It's all interesting to me

My use of the word "technique," in this case, refers simply to the
technique of looping audio.  It's by no means the only thing I'm
interested in (whether in looping or in music in general), but to me
that's the core of a "looping scene," such as there is one.  

Again, I seem to have misinterpreted your comments about the ACF as
being specifically geared towards looping.

> I'm not sure I think in terms of "total improvisation" - for me it's
> more like "real-time composition."

Oh, for me too, ideally.  But I've found that not all improv is
approached from that sort of compositional frame of mind.  (To me, one
of the things that seperates good improvising from noodling is how much
the improviser is able to refer back to and build on a core musical idea).

> >The ACF doesn't seem to offer an outlet for these sorts of issues.
> 
> Does that mean our Web site is too fancy?

My conclusions here were drawn after going through some of the pages at
the group's web site, and more specifically looking at some of the
criteria for submitting compositions for the salons.  My impression,
after having read through the information, was that written music
manuscripts (or at least a recording of a fixed musical work) had to be
handed in to a committe, which would then determine whether or not this
was something that was viable for a formal presentation to the group in general.

It also struck me that the orientation of the site seemed to point
primarily towards academic work, composition grants, "new music," and
the like.  So to me, there's not a lot in the content and orientation of
the site that would be immediately geared towards people who aren't
already operating in the academic or new music realm.  

I should add that, ultimately, I personally feel a lot of the
distinctions between musical "realms" are increasingly meaningless, and
that there's an ever-expanding amount of cross-pollination between a lot
of wildly divergent areas of musical thought these days.  Particularly
in electronically-oriented realms, the distinctions between new music,
electronica, dance, DJ culture, and contemporary classical seem to be
getting more tenuous by the day.  From what I know of your own
background, and what you've described of the ACF, I'm sure you feel the
same way.

> "Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn."  

Rhett, Rhett...  :)

> It's both, depending on who
> is doing it and a what moment he/she is doing it. For instance, I
> don't particularly think of myself as "a looper" but I use looping
> tools and techniques in my music.

Well, if that doesn't scare Kevin out of the idea of moving to LA to
take part in the alleged Looping Scene, nothing will!  :()

Your reaction here is, I would say, very similar to my initial reaction
to the ACF web site: in both cases, we seem to be thinking, "Yes, I use
a lot of the relevant tools, but the requirements of entry seem too
specific and strict for me to comfortably fit in."  And in both cases,
I'd say that's clearly not the case, though it might not be immediately apparent.

As far as your not thinking of yourself as a looper... I feel the same
way about myself, to a large extent: I don't feel comfortable calling
myself a "looping artist" because I don't want to feel like I'm
obligated to always be using looping in what I do, you know?  I think
there's a danger of putting the cart before the horse in that way...

...which brings us back to the main issue I'm wondering about, which is:
what kind of "looping scene" is there in California?  Yes, we had about
two dozen remarkable music performances in San Luis Obispo, and there
are a lot (relatively speaking) of musicians who use this technique in
their music in this state.  

But is that something that a guy in Chicago would be able to tap into in
an appreciably greater way by living here, rather than just staying
subscribed to this list and flying out for a few looping festivals every
year?  

Scenes are usually defined more by style and content than by technique,
I would venture to say.  Which makes a "looping scene" a prickly
proposition, I think.  (Is there an "experimental guitar scene" in San
Diego just because Allan Holdsworth, Mike Keneally, and Harvey Starr all
live there?)

Oh well.  My hands are sore and I don't know what I'm talking about at
this point, but it's always a pleasure to hear your thoughts on these
matters, Richard.

Best wishes,

--Andre LaFosse
http://www.altruistmusic.com

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Dear DT,

Hedewa7@aol.com wrote:
> someday i'd love to hear plenty of music, but in as many styles as there are
> musicians to make 'em.

Just as long as I don't have to make all those different genre bin cards
for the record store...

> and, uhh.....
> death to the demoness allegra geller!

A pox 'pon the Demoness Geller, I say, a pox...

> IMI-IBI

So was it said, so shall it be

--Andre LaFosse
West Coast Proponent of IMI-IBI (Founded 2002)
http://www.imi-ibi.com

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At 6:23 PM -0700 6/3/02, Mark Sottilaro wrote:
>I started looping when my pop band disintegrated...I felt I had 
>spent a lot of time and energy forging a relationship with the other 
>band members...I never wanted to be in that situation again.

>I'm a loner, Dotty.

Excellent point. I think it's very similar to my own experience. 
After spending close to ten years being in and out of bands, putting 
them together, watching them fall apart, I started making art that 
didn't require an ongoing social unit for its very existence. I went 
from filmmaking to tape music to computer music. I never totally 
rejected group collaboration, but I never again depended on it 
completely.
-- 

______________________________________________________________
Richard Zvonar, PhD
(818) 788-2202
http://www.zvonar.com
http://RZCybernetics.com
http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz

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at the outset of this particular verbal volley, we went:

>> someday i'd love to hear plenty of music, but in as many styles as there
>are
>> musicians to make 'em.
>
>Just as long as I don't have to make all those different genre bin cards
>for the record store...
ha!

<snip>

>--Andre LaFosse
>West Coast Proponent of IMI-IBI (Founded 2002)
>http://www.imi-ibi.com
dude: dude. 
i shall webify it (or ask meine freunde to do so).
the hastily disorganised & completely chaotic semimusical analogue to 'the 
first church of the subgenius'.
'member that?
i'm off, again. no, really, i am.
deet / spleet

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At 7:02 PM -0700 6/3/02, Andre LaFosse wrote:

>My use of the word "technique," in this case, refers simply to the
>technique of looping audio.  It's by no means the only thing I'm
>interested in (whether in looping or in music in general), but to me
>that's the core of a "looping scene," such as there is one.

I view looping in three ways: 1) as a technique of real time 
composition that is based on cyclic processes, 2) as an extension of 
collage technique brought into the temporal realm, and 3) as part or 
a larger practice of electroacoustic composition and performance. All 
three have their aethetic and technical sides.


>  > Does that mean our Web site is too fancy?
>
>My conclusions here were drawn after going through some of the pages at
>the group's web site, and more specifically looking at some of the
>criteria for submitting compositions for the salons.  My impression,
>after having read through the information, was that written music
>manuscripts (or at least a recording of a fixed musical work) had to be
>handed in to a committe, which would then determine whether or not this
>was something that was viable for a formal presentation to the group 
>in general.

The way it works is, you make a proposal to the Salon committee and 
they put you in the queue. I'm not aware of anyone having been 
rejected. It may take a year to get programmed, though, because we do 
them only once every other month and there are only three artists per 
program.

The next Salon is this coming Sunday 2-5 at Rocco, 6320 Santa Monica 
Blvd, Hollywood. I won't be there because I'll be in Boston, but it 
looks like a good program.

>It also struck me that the orientation of the site seemed to point 
>primarily towards academic work, composition grants, "new music," 
>and the like.

Hey, it's all "new music."  As for the grants, it's a great program! 
I got a grant specifically to buy an 8-channel surround sound system.

>Your reaction here is...:  "Yes, I use a lot of the relevant tools, 
>but the requirements of entry seem too specific and strict for me to 
>comfortably fit in."

I don't worry too much about "comfort" or "fitting in." I belong to a 
lot of different online and real world communities. Not all of them 
overlap and I'm often a bit of an outsider. Variety is good.

>But is that something that a guy in Chicago would be able to tap into in
>an appreciably greater way by living here, rather than just staying
>subscribed to this list and flying out for a few looping festivals every
>year?

Probably not, but there are a lot of other benefits to living in 
California. On the other hand, Chicago is a great town and has 
certain advantages over the West Coast (the weather not being one of 
these, however_.


-- 

______________________________________________________________
Richard Zvonar, PhD
(818) 788-2202
http://www.zvonar.com
http://RZCybernetics.com
http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz

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I'm just back from Sacramento, California, home of the 2002 TapeOp Magazine 
Conference.  It was a very interesting and informative weekend, and it 
would have been perfect if I hadn't had my rear windshield broken and my 
entire CD collection and my electronic repair kit stolen out of my 
car.  Even so, however, it was a great time.

Mr. Steve Albini gave the keynote address on Friday night, which was mostly 
an introduction to the Laffer Curve.  The Laffer Curve is a bell-shaped 
curve which essentially states that you need to keep your gear lust in 
check.  Someday I'd like to hear his entire speech concerning Spock's 
emotional and irrational behavior during his time of Pon Farr in Episode 
23, but he only gave the first ten minutes this weekend as a way of calling 
us all a bunch of loser geeks.

And geeks there were aplenty.  The kind with glasses and pocket protectors 
and garages or spare bedrooms full of the kind of gear that puts large 
studios out of business.  Rules were laid out in the beginning of the 
conference banning any type of analog vs. digital debate, Steely Dan 
bashing, or general gear-queerness, but we still were able to find lots to 
talk about.  There were excellent panel discussions on mastering, 
production, studio design, and the future of recording, just to name a 
few.  Q&A sessions followed each panel discussion, which was very nice.  I 
learned a lot during every panel.

The event was held at the Crest Theater in downtown Sacramento, which is 
the most beautiful art deco theater I may ever see.  I was signed up as a 
volunteer, but ended up serving as Front of House Engineer by 
default.  Nobody else wanted to do it, I guess, and I had nothing to 
lose.  Anybody who reads TapeOp will see the absurdity of mixing FOH with a 
digital console to that crowd. :)

There were a number of great performances at night at two different 
venues.  I got tired and missed Calexico the first night, but caught a 
couple of really good bands the second night: the Freight Train Riders 
featuring one of the Fried Brothers on fiddle, and J. Mascis playing guitar 
and singing solo.  Mr. Mascis is an interesting character, who happens to 
be a Looper!  He was using one of those Z.Vex analog looper pedals, which 
I've been wondering about lately.  It did indeed sound crappy, just like in 
the advertisement, but not bad as long as you don't need any tone above 
about 5 KHz.  I considered telling him about some higher-fidelity looping 
gear, but he didn't really seem like he wanted to talk to anybody, and 
besides that he's an analog guy anyway....

This year went really well, so I'm sure there will be another TapeOpCon 
next year (not in Sacramento).  I'll be there for sure, and hopefully I'll 
see some of you there as well.

-Hans Lindauer


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Subject: Re: 1st EMERYVILLE LOOPING FESTIVAL?
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i love the idea.

finding the right space/environment is in my sights to
throw something.  

i hope you're all looping at burningman.

tim



"Rick Walker/Loop.pooL" wrote

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> 
> 
> Reading the license plate thread I notice that Alex,
Timothy, Kim and the,
> as yet unamed,
> mystery license plate looper all live in or near
Emeryville.
> 
> Why hasn't there been an EMERYVILLE LOOPING FESTIVAL?
> 
> I'd come be a guest artist, gratis, if you guys threw
such a
> thing.............  :-)
> 
> 
> yours,  Rick Walker (that obnoxious looping festival
fella)


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun  4 01:20:59 2002
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Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 00:16:56 +0800
Subject: Re: anyone in or near Kansas City?
From: Darrell Havard <darrell367@earthlink.net>
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> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
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on 6/5/02 4:02 AM, savior-onasis at savior-onasis@kc.rr.com wrote:

Just wondering if there were any people on the list from the Kansas City
area.  
 
mark


my band, cookout was just in KC a couple of weekends ago, at Hurricane KC.
I'm a looping stick player (I use a RC-20).  Nobody was at gig, though.  It
kinda sucked actually. 

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<BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial">Just wondering if there were =
any people on the list from the Kansas City area. &nbsp;<BR>
</FONT></FONT> <BR>
<FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial">mark<BR>
</FONT></FONT><BR>
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my band, cookout was just in KC a couple of weekends ago, at Hurricane KC. =
&nbsp;I'm a looping stick player (I use a RC-20). &nbsp;Nobody was at gig, t=
hough. &nbsp;It kinda sucked actually.
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun  4 01:29:04 2002
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Subject: RE: 1st EMERYVILLE LOOPING FESTIVAL?
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> i hope you're all looping at burningman.

speaking of which... anyone figured out how to bring gear out to the desert
without it getting dust infested yet?

i want to build a hermetically sealed chamber for electronic gear, unless
there's a better way someone has already thought of...




> "Rick Walker/Loop.pooL" wrote
>
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> >
> >
> > Reading the license plate thread I notice that Alex,
> Timothy, Kim and the,
> > as yet unamed,
> > mystery license plate looper all live in or near
> Emeryville.
> >
> > Why hasn't there been an EMERYVILLE LOOPING FESTIVAL?
> >
> > I'd come be a guest artist, gratis, if you guys threw
> such a
> > thing.............  :-)
> >
> >
> > yours,  Rick Walker (that obnoxious looping festival
> fella)
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun  4 02:00:42 2002
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From: Mark Hamburg <mark_hamburg@baymoon.com>
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The Santa Cruz Sentinel reported that homes on West Cliff Drive (i.e.,
waterfront) just aren't selling the way they used to and people are having
to trim millions off their asking prices -- which still leaves them costing
millions...

Unfortunately for anyone contemplating a move here, I don't think Santa Cruz
is seeing softness at the other end of the market. For example, realtor.com
reports that $189,000 will get you a 2 bedroom, 560 sq. ft. "cabin home" in
Boulder Creek. Ouch.

So, I would have to concur that financially it probably makes more sense to
stay in Chicago and come to California when there actually is an event. It
probably makes financial sense even if in order to perform as well as listen
you had to keep a looping rig in storage in California.

On the other hand, the relative frequency of events in Santa Cruz is one of
the attractions of the area for me particularly since there's a chance that
I can avoid being tired from my job and can get away from my family to go to
some of them whereas the chances would be essentially nil if I had to say "I
need to fly halfway across the country again to go to this looping event.
See you in a couple days." (Expressing it as "getting away from my family"
feels wrong, but I think most people with families will understand the
intended meaning.)

Mark

P.S. Speaking of the midwest and looping, if there are any would be looping
festival organizers in Ann Arbor, I can suggest two spaces that seem like
they could be pretty cool.

One is the auditorium at East Quad. Nice stage. Intimate theater. I have no
idea what sort of arrangements would have to be made to use the space.

The other is the concert hall at the Vitosha Guest Haus
(http://www.vitosha.org/serv021.htm). Not cheap. Probably best for a quieter
looping event. But a cool space.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun  4 02:04:16 2002
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Subject: Re: anyone in or near Kansas City?
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 01:12:31 -0000
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Re: anyone in or near Kansas City?The last time I played the Hurricane =
it pretty much sucked too.  I was in a conventional rock band at the =
time and our singer went psycho.  The kansas city scene is, shall we =
say, in transition....maybe ??  I'm not sure what the hell is going on =
in this town. =20

There are things stirring though.  But it will not be happening at the =
normal venues.=20
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Darrell Havard=20
  To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 4:16 PM
  Subject: Re: anyone in or near Kansas City?


  on 6/5/02 4:02 AM, savior-onasis at savior-onasis@kc.rr.com wrote:


    Just wondering if there were any people on the list from the Kansas =
City area. =20

    mark



  my band, cookout was just in KC a couple of weekends ago, at Hurricane =
KC.  I'm a looping stick player (I use a RC-20).  Nobody was at gig, =
though.  It kinda sucked actually.=20

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Re: anyone in or near Kansas City?</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The last time I played the Hurricane it =
pretty much=20
sucked too.&nbsp; I was in a conventional rock band at the time and our =
singer=20
went psycho.&nbsp; The kansas city scene is, shall we say, in=20
transition....maybe ??&nbsp; I'm not sure what the hell is going on in =
this=20
town.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>There are things stirring though.&nbsp; =
But it will=20
not be happening at the normal venues. </FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Ddarrell367@earthlink.net=20
  href=3D"mailto:darrell367@earthlink.net">Darrell Havard</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  title=3DLoopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@loope=
rs-delight.com</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, June 03, 2002 =
4:16 PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: anyone in or near =
Kansas=20
  City?</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>on 6/5/02 4:02 AM, savior-onasis at <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:savior-onasis@kc.rr.com">savior-onasis@kc.rr.com</A>=20
  wrote:<BR><BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial>Just wondering if there =
were any=20
    people on the list from the Kansas City area.=20
    &nbsp;<BR></FONT></FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
    face=3DArial>mark<BR></FONT></FONT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>my band, =
cookout was=20
  just in KC a couple of weekends ago, at Hurricane KC. &nbsp;I'm a =
looping=20
  stick player (I use a RC-20). &nbsp;Nobody was at gig, though. =
&nbsp;It kinda=20
  sucked actually. </BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Dear list,

Here's some LoopIV sounds for you.

1) Funk meditation.
http://www.altruistmusic.com/soundfiles/asana.mp3

2) A bit of old skool hip hop.  Word.
http://www.altruistmusic.com/soundfiles/alignment.mp3

3) Polyrhythmic Industrial by Hallmark.
http://www.altruistmusic.com/soundfiles/generator.mp3

4) Glitch-core gets some dancing shows.
http://www.altruistmusic.com/soundfiles/glitch.mp3

5) A dark, heavy thing.  Dude.
http://www.altruistmusic.com/soundfiles/insinuation.mp3

6) Cruising in your space car.
http://www.altruistmusic.com/soundfiles/umbra.mp3

Technical geek notes:

Everything's live, improvised, no edits (though #6 has a post-production
fade), no overdubs... but you knew that already.  Every sound came from
the guitar and/or EDP, and the only "effect" used was the spring reverb
in the amp I played through.

Every track uses a new quantization mode called 8th, which allows you to
quantize functions to the nearest 8th/beat subdivision.  And since the
EDP now automatically subdivides any loop by the value of 8th/beat (even
when not syncing to an outside source), there's a ton of fun to be had.

The value for the 8th/beat setting flashes in time, providing a visual
readout for the rhythmic subdivision of a rubato loop, which was awfully
helpful at the beginning of #5.

Pretty much every track used a new insert mode called Substitute.  It's
very similar to Replace, except that you don't hear the actual change in
the audio until the next repetition.  So it's quite subtle and sneaky.

Multiple loops, half-speed, reverse, and retrigger functions were all
triggered via MIDI; these are all available independently of the front
panel settings.  Some tracks (particularly #4 and 2) use these commands
in rapid succession for "scratching" effects.

Track 4 begins by engaging half-speed in the middle of overdubs, to
produce octave jumps in the middle of a single note.

Tracks 3 and 5 use an Interface Mode called Stutter Mode, and an
Insertmode called Sus, to extend the length of sections within a single
cycle.  It's sort of a granular manul timestretch thing.

Every year or so there's a thread on the list to the effect of, "Are
DJ's musicians?"  These tracks invert that question, and ask, "Can a
musician be a DJ?"

Hope ya dig.

--Andre LaFosse
http://www.altruistmusic.com

IMI-IBI

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Here's how I keep my gear clean as a whistle at Burning Man.  First, 
find a nice muddy area near your home and roll around in it naked for a 
while.  Let it dry and then crumble it off.  If you can't find such a 
mud situation, you can get facial grade beauty mud, which I'd actually 
recommend, but it's expensive.  Get most of it off, leaving a fine dusty 
layer on you skin.  You can wash your hands but try to keep it at a 
minimum.  Don't bathe the day before (or two...)

Prior to this, stop at a army surplus store and buy some RTE meals in 
those foil pouches.  Yum.  Don't forget to stay hydrated!

Next, get all your gear set up and ready to use.  Turn it all on and 
make sure it's all working 100%.   Then (this is the important part) 
DON'T LEAVE YOUR HOME.  That's right.

Don't go.

Instead, take a hit or two of acid (which you were going to do anyway) 
and make all the damn noise you want! invite others for extra realistic 
Burning Man action!  If you need to see more naked people, the internet 
is chock full of sites.  Turning up the heat and all your halogen lamps 
is also a plus, but I personally try not to waste natural resources.  At 
the end of the day, light a roman candle if you can get your hands on 
one.  If not some nice Jesus votive candles are fine, and inexpensive.

I've actually tested the above method, and I can confirm it's 
effectiveness.  The next day, there's a little pocket of dirt near your 
gear, but it's mostly clean as it ever was!

Burning Mark Sottilaro


On Monday, June 3, 2002, at 10:28  PM, Paul Weissman wrote:

>
>> i hope you're all looping at burningman.
>
> speaking of which... anyone figured out how to bring gear out to the 
> desert
> without it getting dust infested yet?
>
> i want to build a hermetically sealed chamber for electronic gear, 
> unless
> there's a better way someone has already thought of...
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun  4 03:39:01 2002
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Jim Fowler wrote:

>now, from everything i've read, i'd love to be NEAR
>san francisco but not IN the city.  i've read that
>berkeley, oakland, etc. aren't significantly cheaper
>(i'll be renting...obviously). 

I thought San Francisco was great while I lived there. It has a great public 
transportation system, and there are all sorts of interesting things going 
on. Plenty of places that aren't too downtowny feeling. It never gets too 
hot, and it rarely gets too cold. The problems are that there's no parking, 
the artsy neighborhoods are also the crack-buying districts, and yeah, it's 
pretty expensive.

Oakland is about $200 cheaper per month for a room, and the parking is 
easier to find. Approximately 60% of Oakland is slummy, gang-infested 
neighborhoods, but the other 40% is great! (I live on a pretty quiet street 
a few blocks away from a man-made lake.) Berkeley is the same except when 
you get near the university. Public transit is doable in the east bay, but 
nothing runs after midnight.

Daly City is just south of SF, and I don't know a soul who likes living 
there.

>so what about places like petaluma and places that may
>be no more than 2 hours away?  i would imagine that
>the prices would drop by the time your an hour out.


Petaluma and Santa Rosa are both about an hour north of the city. (Santa 
Rosa is a bigger, cleaner city and is just a tad bit norther than petaluma.) 
>From my experience, apartments up there cost the same as in Oakland and 
Berkeley. Most of the musicians I've known up there didn't stay there, they 
wound up in SF instead. If you don't do country or teenage punk, for the 
most part nobody's interested up there. Honestly, I loved living in Santa 
Rosa when I moved there from Massachusetts, but now that I've lived in San 
Francisco and Oakland, I don't think I'll ever go back there.

There are cities in the far east bay like Concord, Walnut Creek and 
Pleasanton. Rent's probably cheaper, lots of apartments were built there 
within the last 10 years because of the whole dot com craziness. They're a 
lot closer to the bay area (in fact, they're all on the bart lines), but 
they have virtually no culture of your own.




_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

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Just want to point out that (although I have never gone to Burning Man and
am not likely to camp out in the stinking desert with treasured gear), it is
as fine an example of a "Scene" (see earlier posts) as one could find--
Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sottilaro [mailto:sine@zerocrossing.net]
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 12:00 AM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Keeping gear clean at Burning Man


Here's how I keep my gear clean as a whistle at Burning Man.  First,
find a nice muddy area near your home and roll around in it naked for a
while.  Let it dry and then crumble it off.  If you can't find such a
mud situation, you can get facial grade beauty mud, which I'd actually
recommend, but it's expensive.  Get most of it off, leaving a fine dusty
layer on you skin.  You can wash your hands but try to keep it at a
minimum.  Don't bathe the day before (or two...)

Prior to this, stop at a army surplus store and buy some RTE meals in
those foil pouches.  Yum.  Don't forget to stay hydrated!

Next, get all your gear set up and ready to use.  Turn it all on and
make sure it's all working 100%.   Then (this is the important part)
DON'T LEAVE YOUR HOME.  That's right.

Don't go.

Instead, take a hit or two of acid (which you were going to do anyway)
and make all the damn noise you want! invite others for extra realistic
Burning Man action!  If you need to see more naked people, the internet
is chock full of sites.  Turning up the heat and all your halogen lamps
is also a plus, but I personally try not to waste natural resources.  At
the end of the day, light a roman candle if you can get your hands on
one.  If not some nice Jesus votive candles are fine, and inexpensive.

I've actually tested the above method, and I can confirm it's
effectiveness.  The next day, there's a little pocket of dirt near your
gear, but it's mostly clean as it ever was!

Burning Mark Sottilaro


On Monday, June 3, 2002, at 10:28  PM, Paul Weissman wrote:

>
>> i hope you're all looping at burningman.
>
> speaking of which... anyone figured out how to bring gear out to the
> desert
> without it getting dust infested yet?
>
> i want to build a hermetically sealed chamber for electronic gear,
> unless
> there's a better way someone has already thought of...
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun  4 03:47:10 2002
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don't knock Chicago! I hear lots of great stuff coming from your city.

I live right in the bay area, and I have to admit, I can't think of a place 
within 2 a hour drive that would have a house for $150k. A co-worker of mine 
just put a down payment on a house in Fremont (an hour away by train) 
because it was only $300k. Rents have been coming down, and it seems most 
bay area residents are taking advantage of it and upgrading their living 
situations.

Believe it or not, I've been hearing some great things coming from the LA 
and San Diego areas. Turns out there are plenty of people down there who 
aren't still apeshit about Guns N Roses!

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun  4 03:53:12 2002
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Hi Si,

Welcome to the list! (I've only just joined too)

Check out the Electrix Repeater at http://www.electrixpro.com - it 
allows for tap tempo changes, altering the loops without vastly changing 
the quality of the sound. You can also sync the rhythm to a live 
drummer, but the problem is, is that there is only one audio input - so 
it is impossible to shield the drum sound from your own guitar loops. 
However, there should be a possibility of finding a cheap unit that will 
listen to the bass drum sound, and convert it into a midi BPM... (any 
ideas?)

Whilst the Repeater has a few flaws, it is in my opinion the most 
feature-filled dedicated looper to date.

--
Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
http://www.solostring.com
stuart@solostring.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun  4 03:57:20 2002
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Its tricky to end a performance with a loop, however, the tricks that I 
use are to build up a crescendo with the electric violin towards the end 
of the piece, then hitting the stop button at the same time I hit a 
power chord on the violin.

The only other way that I have found is to assign a volume pedal to the 
master volume, and do a realtime fade-out - but that sucks. I'm 
experimenting at the moment in being able to change the Repeater's 
feedback level via the assignable volume pedal. Then - towards the end 
of the loop section, you can move the feedback from 90% down to 50% or 
lower - it will allow for some quite good morphing.

This should be possible to adapt with most repeaters.

On Tuesday, June 4, 2002, at 01:09 AM, Peter Prisekin aka Dusty Chalk 
wrote:

> The funniest thing about this thread (besides Mr. Sottilaro)
> is that it triggered the following serious thought:
> do loopers know how to quit?
>
> This has been a frustration for me lately.  There are the
> obvious two choices:  repeat and fade, and abrupt stop
> (usually during a rest).  Also, there's the obvious variation
> of de-evolution -- I.E., if you've built up a loop with layers,
> deconstruct it back down by removing layers, but when you're
> down to the last loop, be it the one you started with, or a
> different one, you still have to make one of the two above
> choices.  I've been thinking of trying to "morph" from a loop
> to live playing, but have not been successful in an accurate
> resemblance of the loop, so I usually go for a completely
> different sound, but maybe playing the same riff.  Any other
> ideas?
>
> Favourite license plate (un-loop-related):  PLAN A (and then
> written on the bumper: "HEAD")
> --
> I remain,
> :-Peter aka :-Dusty :-Chalk
>
>
>
--
Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
http://www.solostring.com
stuart@solostring.com

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Have you ever thought about trying to make some sort of shrink-wrapped 
plasting mould for your pedals etc? I have a problem when I play on the 
street with the DL4 - I get a lot of concrete/stone dust clogging up the 
buttons and dials. I'm trying to find somewhere to get a custom pliable 
plastic cover to protect it.

On Tuesday, June 4, 2002, at 07:28 AM, Paul Weissman wrote:

> i want to build a hermetically sealed chamber for electronic gear, 
> unless
> there's a better way someone has already thought of...
--
Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
http://www.solostring.com
stuart@solostring.com

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Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 03:16:06 -0500
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Subject: Re: Looper Moving! - scenes, genres, and distinctions
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Speaking as a "Chicago Looper" I have never found talk of a "looping 
scene" really all that productive. It doesn't exist here.

Like Richard Z. and Andre F. eleoquently state, looping is more or 
less a compostional device, not a musical genre. What ties us 
together on this list is not a musical style or genre, but a specific 
set of audio effects devices, combined with the possibility of 
learning of techniques, gear bargains, and even some opportunities to 
gig together.

Of course, these technologies do influence the ways we make sounds 
and music, and these technologies may tend to lead us toward similar 
ties in terms of styles, and then location and travel... But, what 
makes the list is the versatility of the machines, so I don't want to 
all together dimiss that a common way of music-making could lead to a 
"scene" of some sort.

Case in point, every mention of organizing a Midwest LoopFest that 
I've responded to has met with no response. It probably doesn't need 
one. I imagine most of local musicians that I work with consider a 
loop-based music very limiting, given the musical potential of 
computer-based means, analog synth, and so forth, versus their 
virtuosity on traditional and electronic instruments. I'm refering to 
players who are informed by, and performing in a context of free 
improvised music. My own perspective would be different of course if 
I were making electronica, hip-hop, techno, or some other (as yet 
unnamed) genre of beat-oriented music...

As far as the weather goes here in Chicago...yes, it keeps you on 
your toes (or shivering under the covers, or gasping for dry air) 
...but the list of wonderful players here that are serious and eager 
to play (sans loops) is welcoming, even overwhelming. That said, I've 
enjoyed playing in L.A., Berlin, Balitmore, New York and look forward 
getting to Santa Cruz, S.F., S.D. Seattle, Louisville, Birmingham, 
Szcecin, Stralsund, Linz, Cologne, Sydney, and numerous other places 
where people are interested hearing and making strange sounds.

Oh, and since I chime in on this list so rarely, some readers might 
be wondering who the f__k I am... I joined the list back '99 to see 
if a JamMan could be purchased for me to use for making my sounds for 
Plasticene, a physical theater company that I compose for and perform 
with (since 1995) in Chicago. With the information I learned from the 
Looper's Delight website, I was convinced that Plasticene should buy 
an Oberhiem Echoplex Digital Pro, which they did. I purchased it from 
a private owner and since then have used the EDP in numerous solo and 
group improvised music in the US and elsewhere. With Plasticene, the 
EDP as been indispensible for creating what you might hear as 
cinematic soundtracks for "experimental" theater.

I still find the EDP a little tricky to use, and I'm interested in 
exploring ways to use the EDP with alternative controllers (something 
I've been wanting delve into for many years now) given the self-built 
instrument I use. In addition to this I'm hoping to find time to 
learn and use Max/MSP to create software-based processing that I can 
to compose and control my sounds (be they environmental, from my 
Korg-MS 20, the Springboard) and the EDP.

Now that I've digressed from e-topic at hand...Regarding 
salons...submitting proposals...

My "business" requires this. It's a tedious process. Often like 
getting a gig in a venue of noteriety, simply frustrating. After 
applying for an Illinois Arts Council Fellowship (the only grant, 
aside from a MacArthur or Guggenheim, that actuallly allows a 
recipient to spend the funds on equipment, rent, dental work, or 
whatever..) year after year, for fourteen years, I've recieved 
finally one. (I shouldn't say this, if anyone can direct me to a 
paying commission for a film soundtrack, this seems fantastical.)

Lastly, I get a small thrill out of reading the posts from the many 
people on this list...enjoy the fact that we're tied together in a 
small world...I first heard of Richard Zvonar from a friend of mine 
in 1983, from John Goss a painter, video and performance artist who 
was then a grad student at Cal Arts.

Sincere regards,
Eric
--
Upcoming Performances:

Feature in Drunken Boat Issue#4, online journal for the arts: 
http://www.drunkenboat.com/

Eric Leonardson web page: http://pages.ripco.net/~eleon 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun  4 04:25:23 2002
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Stuart Wyatt wrote:
> 
> Hi Si,
> 
> Welcome to the list! (I've only just joined too)
> 
> Check out the Electrix Repeater at http://www.electrixpro.com - it
> allows for tap tempo changes, altering the loops without vastly changing
> the quality of the sound. You can also sync the rhythm to a live
> drummer, but the problem is, is that there is only one audio input - so
> it is impossible to shield the drum sound from your own guitar loops.
> However, there should be a possibility of finding a cheap unit that will
> listen to the bass drum sound, and convert it into a midi BPM... (any
> ideas?)
> 
> Whilst the Repeater has a few flaws, it is in my opinion the most
> feature-filled dedicated looper to date.


if you say Mac I say Pc if you say Repeater I say EDP (Echoplex Digital
Pro)

As speaking of your opinion on the peater its yours, but you somehow
restrict the value of it by not knowing the EDP' and her features (she's
feminine for me)

http://www.loopers-delight.com/tools/tools.html

welcome

Claude

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I've just checked out the specs, and she looks lovely :)

I think my next purchase is going to be a Line6 echo pro, but maybe 
after that, I'd love to get my hands on one of these beauties!


On Tuesday, June 4, 2002, at 09:19 AM, Claude Voit wrote:

> As speaking of your opinion on the peater its yours, but you somehow
> restrict the value of it by not knowing the EDP' and her features (she's
> feminine for me)
--
Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
http://www.solostring.com
stuart@solostring.com

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Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 03:51:50 -0500
To: "matt davignon" <mattdavignon@hotmail.com>,
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From: Eric Leonardson <eleon@ripco.com>
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At 12:43 AM -0700 6/4/02, matt davignon wrote:
>don't knock Chicago! I hear lots of great stuff coming from your city.

My girlfriend and I were, up until she she got fired, looking for a 
home to buy in the city (chicago). The legacy of racial segregation 
and the currency of gentrification defines what's affordable here. If 
you don't mind moving to a "risky" neighborhood, you can still 
purchase a home here, like a brick 2-flat with basement, for under 
$200k.

For chicago metropolitan area the median price for a home is $300k.

Best regards,
Eric

--
Upcoming Performances:

Feature in Drunken Boat Issue#4, online journal for the arts: 
http://www.drunkenboat.com/

Eric Leonardson web page: http://pages.ripco.net/~eleon 

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References: <B921B777.FA2%darrell367@earthlink.net> <000e01c20c2e$11b811e0$edb55e18@kc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: anyone in or near Kansas City?
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 04:12:35 +0100
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Re: anyone in or near Kansas City?the band shiner is from kc, i think.  =
what a great rock band.  no looping, but they use orange amps!

-jim

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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>the band shiner is from kc, i think.&nbsp; what a =
great rock=20
band.&nbsp; no looping, but they use orange amps!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>-jim</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 04:11:13 -0700
From: Anthony Justman <pantonio@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: 1st EMERYVILLE LOOPING FESTIVAL?
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I work in emeryville.

I'd do a festival there.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Walker/Loop.pooL" <GLOBAL@cruzio.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 4:58 PM
Subject: 1st EMERYVILLE LOOPING FESTIVAL?


>
> Reading the license plate thread I notice that Alex, Timothy, Kim and the,
> as yet unamed,
> mystery license plate looper all live in or near Emeryville.
>
> Why hasn't there been an EMERYVILLE LOOPING FESTIVAL?
>
> I'd come be a guest artist, gratis, if you guys threw such a
> thing.............  :-)
>
>
> yours,  Rick Walker (that obnoxious looping festival fella)
>


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the only places with houses for $150000 are too far from San Francisco.  =
You'd have to go due east and end up in the middle of no where.=20

I think the median home price in the Bay Area is around $280000

even places like santa rosa/petaluma are not too cheap because they are =
close to the wine country (napa).

I live in SF and work in Emeryville, which is right across the Bay, =
nestled against hiway 80 and bordering berkeley and oakland.  There are =
a lot of empty lofts for sale there and prices are fairly reasonable i'm =
told.  from there, its a ten minute drive to SF without traffic.  I =
really like working there b/c parking is good, stuff is cheaper and =
you're still close to a lot.
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Brother Sean=20
  To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 12:57 PM
  Subject: Looper Moving!


  After being on this list now for around 8 months I have to say I'm =
quite jealous of you California Loopers.

  Having LoopStock and all I just can't resist anymore I feel compelled =
to move closer to the action.

  =20

  Currently I'm located in Chicago, IL. I'm considering moving near the =
bay area but very concerned

  about the cost of living. (Chicago isn't so inexpensive either but I =
have heard frightening things about San Francisco)

  I'm a freelance web developer and money is tight right now.

  =20

  Can any of you locals suggest any small towns within 50 - 100 miles of =
San Francisco that have a reasonable

  cost of living. (Reasonable meaning being able to buy a house for =
under $150,000) I'm sorry if my question is rather

  vague but I figure house cost is a good place to start. I don't mind =
living somewhat in the middle of nowhere either.

  =20

  Thanks a bunch!

  Kevin McPeak

  info@brothersean.com

  =20

  =20


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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>the only places with houses for $150000 =
are too far=20
from San Francisco.&nbsp; You'd have to go due east and end up in the =
middle of=20
no where. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I think the median home price in the =
Bay Area is=20
around $280000</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>even places like santa rosa/petaluma =
are not too=20
cheap because they are close to the wine country (napa).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I live in SF and work in Emeryville, =
which is right=20
across the Bay, nestled against hiway 80 and bordering berkeley and=20
oakland.&nbsp; There are a lot of empty lofts for sale there and prices =
are=20
fairly reasonable i'm told.&nbsp; from there, its a ten minute drive to =
SF=20
without traffic.&nbsp; I really like working there b/c parking is good, =
stuff is=20
cheaper and you're still close to a lot.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dinfo@brothersean.com =
href=3D"mailto:info@brothersean.com">Brother=20
  Sean</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  title=3DLoopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@loope=
rs-delight.com</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, June 03, 2002 =
12:57=20
PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Looper Moving!</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DSection1>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">After being on this list =
now for=20
  around 8 months I have to say I=92m quite jealous of you California =
<SPAN=20
  class=3DSpellE>Loopers</SPAN>.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Having <SPAN=20
  class=3DSpellE>LoopStock</SPAN> and all I just can=92t resist anymore =
I feel=20
  compelled to move closer to the action.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Currently I=92m located =
in=20
  </SPAN></FONT><st1:place><st1:City><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Chicago</SPAN></FONT></st1:City><FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">,=20
  </SPAN></FONT><st1:State><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">IL</SPAN></FONT></st1:State></st1:place><FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">. I=92m=20
  considering moving near the bay area but very=20
  concerned<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DGramE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">about</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"> the cost=20
  of living. (</SPAN></FONT><st1:City><st1:place><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Chicago</SPAN></FONT></st1:place></st1:City><FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"> isn=92t so=20
  inexpensive either but I have heard frightening things about=20
  </SPAN></FONT><st1:City><st1:place><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">San=20
  Francisco</SPAN></FONT></st1:place></st1:City><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I=92m a freelance web =
developer and=20
  money is tight right now.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Can any of you locals =
suggest any=20
  small towns within 50 =96 100 miles of =
</SPAN></FONT><st1:City><st1:place><FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">San=20
  Francisco</SPAN></FONT></st1:place></st1:City><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> that have a <SPAN=20
  class=3DGramE>reasonable</SPAN><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DGramE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">cost</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"> of=20
  living. (Reasonable meaning being able to buy a house for under =
$150,000) I=92m=20
  sorry if my question is rather<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DGramE><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">vague</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"> but I=20
  figure house cost is a good place to start. I don=92t mind living =
somewhat in=20
  the middle of nowhere either.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thanks a=20
  bunch!<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Kevin=20
  McPeak<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:info@brothersean.com">info@brothersean.com</A><o:p></o:p><=
/SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><SPAN=20
  style=3D"mso-spacerun: =
yes">&nbsp;</SPAN><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY>=
</HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun  4 07:16:45 2002
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Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 04:22:25 -0700
From: Anthony Justman <pantonio@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: wall wart defeater
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References: <005501c208f0$c2c8ada0$63483144@nrockv01.md.comcast.net>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020531221456.00a88810@www.dreamstate.to>
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Furman makes one that allows you to "lock" in the wart so that the don't
come unplugged.

I think its not too cheap though.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott McGregor Moore" <scott@dreamstate.to>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 7:19 PM
Subject: Re: wall wart defeater


>
>
> A great discovery for me was a BELKIN power bar
> with 10 AC inputs, all spaced for wall warts with
> a metal case and a 15 ft. cord (which is handy but
> takes up much more room in the suitcase).
> I buy them here in Toronto at the Home Depot.
>
> Cheers,
> Scott M2
>
> http://www.dreamSTATE.to
> ambientelectronicsoundscapes
> http://www.THEAMBiENTPiNG.com
>


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun  4 07:18:56 2002
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Subject: Re: Power Amps...
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haflers

they have too lines, even the cheaper one is pretty good from what I hear.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Louis Rossi" <tarbit@hotmail.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 8:55 AM
Subject: Power Amps...


> Can someone suggest a clean power amp for my chapman stick setup please? 
> Looking for 50-75 watts per channel
> 
> Thanks
> LOU
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
> http://www.hotmail.com
> 


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Subject: Re: fruity loops sampling question...
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use any program to record a wave file.  cut it down to loop properly and =
then import into FL.

there's nothing special about the FL file format, so any old wav file =
will work.  I think you'd want to save it where other FL audio files =
reside on your hard drive.

-----Original Message-----
From: Looping9string@aol.com [mailto:Looping9string@aol.com]
Sent: 20 May 2002 05:20
To: loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: fruity loops sampling question...


    Fruity loops,=20

    How do I record my bass and create a wave file to import into fruity =
loops?





    Random comment:=20
    GIBSON's EDP tech support is impossible to reach... I'm about to fix =
this EDP with a big ol hammer!=20

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<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>use any program to record a wave =
file.&nbsp; cut=20
it down to loop properly and then import into FL.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>there's nothing special about the FL =
file format,=20
so any old wav file will work.&nbsp; I think you'd want to save it where =
other=20
FL audio files reside on your hard drive.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original =
Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:Looping9string@aol.com">Looping9string@aol.com</A>=20
[mailto:Looping9string@aol.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> 20 May 2002 =
05:20<BR><B>To:</B>=20
<A=20
href=3D"mailto:loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com">loopers-delight@loope=
rs-delight.com</A><BR><B>Subject:</B>=20
fruity loops sampling question...<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <BLOCKQUOTE><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D3><B>Fruity =
loops,=20
    <BR><BR>How do I record my bass and create a wave file to import =
into fruity=20
    loops?</FONT><FONT lang=3D0 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" =
face=3DArial=20
    color=3D#000000 size=3D2=20
    FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"></B><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR></FONT><FONT =
lang=3D0=20
    style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 =
size=3D1=20
    FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">Random comment: <BR>GIBSON's EDP tech support =
is=20
    impossible to reach... I'm about to fix this EDP with a big ol=20
    hammer!</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun  4 07:47:29 2002
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Subject: Re: anyone in or near Kansas City?
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St. Louis---Mike Killian

savior-onasis wrote:

> Just wondering if there were any people on the list from the Kansas
> City area. mark

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St. Louis---Mike Killian
<p>savior-onasis wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><style></style>
<font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Just
wondering if there were any people on the list from the Kansas City area.</font></font>&nbsp;<font face="Arial"><font size=-1>mark</font></font></blockquote>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun  4 07:59:44 2002
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Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 07:56:39 EDT
Subject: Re: Loopers do it repeatedly (was Re: Fw: THIS IS FOR REAL. (THIS IS A LOOP  BASED MUSIC LIST!)
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stuart@solostring.com writes:

>I'm 
>experimenting at the moment in being able to change the Repeater's 
>feedback level via the assignable volume pedal. Then - towards the end
>of the loop section, you can move the feedback from 90% down to 50% or
>lower - it will allow for some quite good morphing.
>This should be possible to adapt with most repeaters.
well, no:
that can only work if/when yer using one track of the repeater, as the 
fdbk-ctrl will only be functional in a single, open (ie, recording) track.
dt / s-c

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun  4 08:07:57 2002
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Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 08:05:04 EDT
Subject: Re: live funk guitar loops
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stuart@solostring.com writes:

>I think my next purchase is going to be a Line6 echo pro, but maybe 
>after that, I'd love to get my hands on one of these beauties!

if your interest in looping seems as if it might wanna evolve and grow, then 
it'd certainly be money ill-spent on the dl4 as opposed to the edp.
imo.
dt / s-c

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun  4 08:56:10 2002
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Subject: Re: Loopers do it repeatedly (was Re: Fw: THIS IS FOR REAL. (THIS IS A LOOP  BASED MUSIC LIST!)
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Yeah, I was thinking out aloud.... (the Repeater is fairly new to me). 
But by using assignable volume pedals to control the volume of the 4 
mono or 2 stereo loops could work....,

On Tuesday, June 4, 2002, at 01:56 PM, Hedewa7@aol.com wrote:

> that can only work if/when yer using one track of the repeater, as the
> fdbk-ctrl will only be functional in a single, open (ie, recording) 
> track.
--
Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
http://www.solostring.com
stuart@solostring.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun  4 09:24:31 2002
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Subject: Re: live funk guitar loops
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I already have a DL4 (currently being repaired) that I use for street 
work, but the problem is that it saturates easily when plugged into the 
effects send/returns of the Repeater. I'm also not 100% sure, but I 
think the DL4 is 16 bit whereas the echo pro is 24 bit - in any case, 
the sound quality of the echo pro is amazing with its balanced 
inputs/outputs, and better for a rack mounted setup. I'm also looking 
for something that will set the BPM automatically via Midi for delays - 
I use a lot of single repeat delays to create the illusion of two 
violins playing a Bach-type round with each other.

At the end of the day though, looking at my current finances, I could 
not afford either :)

One can dream though.


On Tuesday, June 4, 2002, at 02:05 PM, Hedewa7@aol.com wrote:

> if your interest in looping seems as if it might wanna evolve and grow, 
> then
> it'd certainly be money ill-spent on the dl4 as opposed to the edp.
--
Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
http://www.solostring.com
stuart@solostring.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun  4 09:36:46 2002
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Subject: Re: wall wart defeater
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> Furman makes one that allows you to "lock" in the wart so that the don't
> come unplugged.

I use a plastic cable tie for that.  Works great if you don't need to unplug
it very often.

Dennis Leas
-------------------
dennis@mdbs.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun  4 10:27:08 2002
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From: BILLYBUDDHA@webtv.net (William Mcallister)
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 07:25:24 -0700 (PDT)
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Looper Moving!
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I'm confused, are you moving to be part of a scene or upgrade your
living standards? Do you have children? Or are you a free man. I can
suggest living here in Las Vegas where I live and For 150k you can get
brand new house in a new neighborhood 3bd 2 bath. 200k you'll really be
stylin'. There is a small scene of like minded folks and 4 hours from
LA. 10 hours to santa cruz,  the looping capital. But everyone from LA
is coming up here. There are so many houses you can get in with no down.
They just want people to start making payments. Down side is most people
think their Barbie and Ken cruisin down the strip in their vette'
Plastic people. Bill/Las Vegas 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun  4 11:01:26 2002
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Stuart,

You may also want to check out the D-Two from T.C. Electronics for this.

-Hans Lindauer


> I already have a DL4 (currently being repaired) that I use for street
> work, but the problem is that it saturates easily when plugged into
> the
> effects send/returns of the Repeater. I'm also not 100% sure, but I
> think the DL4 is 16 bit whereas the echo pro is 24 bit - in any case,
> the sound quality of the echo pro is amazing with its balanced
> inputs/outputs, and better for a rack mounted setup. I'm also looking
> for something that will set the BPM automatically via Midi for delays
> -
> I use a lot of single repeat delays to create the illusion of two
> violins playing a Bach-type round with each other.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun  4 11:36:03 2002
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You guys are great! Thanks for all the info, moving is such a tough
decision...

Like Richard and others on the list stated I am somewhat a loner to,
mainly a defense mechanism I guess. I'm 25 and I just got out of a three
year relationship with a band that ended very poorly. After that I took
voice lessons for eight months (still taking them) and learned how to
sing. Now I sing, play guitar and loop. No longer did I want to be
dependent on other musicians. I got to the point were I cared so much
about my music that it hurt too much to feel myself being controlled by
the lives of others that didn't care as much as I did. My only musical
partner now is my brother who plays bass and writes.

As for Chicago it is an amazing town with a great music scene. I moved
here two years ago from Indianapolis, IN. Tough scene there, lot of
cover bands
and in general very little diversity. I agree with the wise words of
many on the list regarding making your own scene. Musicians are very
focused on their own work and often times, especially in my case, find
it hard to find the time to cultivate a "scene". I guess the thing I
like most about Chicago is that it is so diverse musically. 

So when I stated I was moving for looping only that was a small fib...
My biggest thing against Chicago is the cost of living and the
population density. Of course I could move back to Indy watch corn grow
and live cheap. But I think not.

Thanks again for the info fellows! I'll keep you posted.

Kevin
----------
Brother Sean
www.brothersean.com


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun  4 11:38:26 2002
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Subject: Re: 1st EMERYVILLE LOOPING FESTIVAL?
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 08:36:49 -0700
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I know Rick already offered this but, I will also be more than happy to
perform as a guest artist for free if this event comes off.  For that
matter, I'd happily perform as a guest artist at any looping festival that
comes up within range of my ol' clunker...
Jon

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rick Walker/Loop.pooL" <GLOBAL@cruzio.com>
> To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 4:58 PM
> Subject: 1st EMERYVILLE LOOPING FESTIVAL?
>
>
> >
> > Reading the license plate thread I notice that Alex, Timothy, Kim and
the,
> > as yet unamed,
> > mystery license plate looper all live in or near Emeryville.
> >
> > Why hasn't there been an EMERYVILLE LOOPING FESTIVAL?
> >
> > I'd come be a guest artist, gratis, if you guys threw such a
> > thing.............  :-)
> >
> >
> > yours,  Rick Walker (that obnoxious looping festival fella)
> >
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun  4 11:41:30 2002
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Subject: Re: live funk guitar loops
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> drummer, but the problem is, is that there is only one audio input - so
> it is impossible to shield the drum sound from your own guitar loops.

You can do it if you're clever:  arm two tracks to record stereo.  Kill the
volume fader on the left track and use the left for beat detect input.
It'll go to the two tracks, but the beat detect source is muted.  Then you
can bounce the track you like to the two spare tracks and go ahead an make a
new track.  I can explain more if you don't get this - there's some other
things you can do too but you can figure those out from this hint.
jon

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Subject: Re: Loopers do it repeatedly (was Re: Fw: THIS IS FOR REAL. (THIS IS A LOOP  BASED MUSIC LIST!)
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> >experimenting at the moment in being able to change the Repeater's
> >feedback level via the assignable volume pedal. Then - towards the end
> >of the loop section, you can move the feedback from 90% down to 50% or
> >lower - it will allow for some quite good morphing.
> >This should be possible to adapt with most repeaters.
> well, no:
> that can only work if/when yer using one track of the repeater, as the
> fdbk-ctrl will only be functional in a single, open (ie, recording) track.
> dt / s-c

so, if I arm all four tracks to record, and engage an overdub, the feedback
control doesn't work like I'd expect on all four tracks?  Gasp!, I'd never
tried this but I just assumed it would work...  The lack of corectly
functioning feedback control on the repeater has been my least favorite
thing about it, and something that never seems to be mentioned when
comparing it with the EDP.  I really miss it sometimes.

Somehow I think it goes with the intended audience for the repeater.  A lot
of today's popular music uses loop sequencing in a very un-organic way:
loop1, then loop2, then loop3, back to loop1, etc.  While the EDP can do
this very smoothly with nextLoop, it seems like it really shines at
facilitating the evolution of loop1 into loop3.  Get me?  The repeater is
seems really good at the "AcidPro" style of loop sequencing, and not at all
good at the evolution style of looping.  I find myself constantly having to
make a smooth volume fade myself with the faders, when I'd really rather
just set that track's feedback down low and have it do it itself over a few
cycles.  Anyone else agree/disagree?  I'd love to hear other people's ideas
on using the repeater "organically."

Jon

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Subject: Re: Turntablist Guitar (Part 1)
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> Dear list,
>
> Here's some LoopIV sounds for you.

Brilliant! thanks for posting these Andre!  Now its back to work on
InsertMode = sub...
Jon



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  That's good schtuff! I especially like Asana.
  
  
on 6/3/02 Andre LaFosse wrote:

>Dear list,
>
>Here's some LoopIV sounds for you.
>
>1) Funk meditation.
>http://www.altruistmusic.com/soundfiles/asana.mp3
>
>2) A bit of old skool hip hop.  Word.
>http://www.altruistmusic.com/soundfiles/alignment.mp3
>
>3) Polyrhythmic Industrial by Hallmark.
>http://www.altruistmusic.com/soundfiles/generator.mp3
>
>4) Glitch-core gets some dancing shows.
>http://www.altruistmusic.com/soundfiles/glitch.mp3
>
>5) A dark, heavy thing.  Dude.
>http://www.altruistmusic.com/soundfiles/insinuation.mp3
>
>6) Cruising in your space car.
>http://www.altruistmusic.com/soundfiles/umbra.mp3
>
>Technical geek notes:
>
>Everything's live, improvised, no edits (though #6 has a
post-production
>
------------------------------------------
Greg Kucharo-                                 
www.mutantaudio.com


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun  4 12:44:10 2002
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Subject: Loopers do it repeatedly (was Re: Fw: THIS IS FOR REAL. (THIS IS A LOOP  BASED MUSIC LIST!)
From: Stuart Wyatt <stuart@solostring.com>
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On Tuesday, June 4, 2002, at 05:49 PM, Jon Wagner wrote:

> I'd love to hear other people's ideas
> on using the repeater "organically."

(This got sent direct to Jon... it should have gone to the list)

In some ways, I was grossly dissapointed with the Repeater's 
performance. I had assumed that it would be like 4 DL4's plus more...

The things that annoy me about it are:

1. When you record the first loop, the record button cuts out when you 
set the end point for the loop. This can cause clicks in the audio if 
you do not keep the break points clean... Why it cannot have a 
continuous overdub feature (like the DL4) I do not know.

2. Ambient drones : Anyone tried this? Notice the 'clicks'.... why, I do 
not know. It is impossible to get a nice harmonic drone without having 
an attack note in there somewhere.

3. Midi implementation - In the documentation, it says that everything 
you can do on the front panel can be assigned to Midi. Utter bollocks 
(excuse the French). You cannot erase tracks, select multiple tracks for 
pitch shifting, or copy loops. Also, it uses CC codes higher than 95, 
which makes my Roland FC200 pedal completely useless.

4. Panning - When you delete a loop of all of its tracks, the panning is 
set back to the centre for all 4 tracks. Why?

Saying that, those are the bad points. It does have a lot of good 
points. With a good midi pedal, you can do some amazing things with 
'slipping' tracks in the loop, as well as pitch shifting. The realtime 
tempo changing is not that bad - with very little sound degredation 
until you stretch/reduce a lot from the original BPM.

So I'd agree with your points about it being more geared to the studio 
producer.

On its own, it is not a good organic looping tool. However, combined 
with something like the Echo Pro, Echoplex, DL4 or whatever, and a 
serious Midi controller, I think that it offers a hell of a lot of 
potential for an organic looper.

--
Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
http://www.solostring.com
stuart@solostring.com


--
Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
http://www.solostring.com
stuart@solostring.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun  4 13:11:06 2002
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Hi all,
   You kids are great!  I wish you would come to West Virginia and play.
If anyone is ever passing through Charleston, WV send me an email and we'll 
hook up!  I'm sure I could book a place to play around town or we could 
improve in the studio.  I just got the new Digitech GNX3 and started playing 
around with it.  I will write a review after playing with it some more.  I 
am in the process of setting up and rewiring my studio and just purchased a 
Behringer MX9000 mixing board too!  I hope to have it all up and looping by 
the weekend.

Peace,
Weg


From: BILLYBUDDHA@webtv.net (William Mcallister)
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To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 08:33:09 -0700 (PDT)
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First off, I enjoyed reading Mark Sottilaro's sarcastic yet constructive
critique. great way to get the point accross. But as for "just john" I
dont know what is worse, my stupidity or you investing so much emotion
in my stupidity. As for every one else tolerating the spam thread. I am
sorry and it won't happen again. Blessings to all,  Bill/Las Vegas


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun  4 13:34:07 2002
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Subject: Re: 1st EMERYVILLE LOOPING FESTIVAL?
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 17:30:20 +0000
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Depending, of course, on timing and dates...you can count me in too!!
Would love the chance to mingle and chat with all of you again....and Jon, 
perhaps a chance to duet with you bassndrumsnloops....?
Max


>From: "Jon Wagner" <jondrums@hotmail.com>
>
>I know Rick already offered this but, I will also be more than happy to
>perform as a guest artist for free if this event comes off.  For that
>matter, I'd happily perform as a guest artist at any looping festival that
>comes up within range of my ol' clunker...
>Jon
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Rick Walker/Loop.pooL" <GLOBAL@cruzio.com>
> > To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> > Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 4:58 PM
> > Subject: 1st EMERYVILLE LOOPING FESTIVAL?
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Reading the license plate thread I notice that Alex, Timothy, Kim and
>the,
> > > as yet unamed,
> > > mystery license plate looper all live in or near Emeryville.
> > >
> > > Why hasn't there been an EMERYVILLE LOOPING FESTIVAL?
> > >
> > > I'd come be a guest artist, gratis, if you guys threw such a
> > > thing.............  :-)
> > >
> > >
> > > yours,  Rick Walker (that obnoxious looping festival fella)
> > >
> >
> >
> >


_________________________________________________________________
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun  4 13:38:59 2002
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>Depending, of course, on timing and dates...you can count me in too!!
>Would love the chance to mingle and chat with all of you again....and Jon,
>perhaps a chance to duet with you bassndrumsnloops....?

Boo-Ya, Primo, Sweet, and other positive adjectives. yes.
Jon

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun  4 13:39:13 2002
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Subject: Re: anyone in or near Kansas City?
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Re: anyone in or near Kansas City?Yeah, I've seen shiner a couple of =
times. They are a good band.  And Orange amps?!  Well, that makes them =
"Honorary Virtual Loopers of the First Order" ;-)

Peace


  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Jimmy Fowler=20
  To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 3:12 AM
  Subject: Re: anyone in or near Kansas City?


  the band shiner is from kc, i think.  what a great rock band.  no =
looping, but they use orange amps!

  -jim

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Re: anyone in or near Kansas City?</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Yeah, I've seen shiner a couple of =
times. They are=20
a good band.&nbsp; And Orange amps?!&nbsp; Well, that makes them =
"Honorary=20
Virtual Loopers of the First Order" ;-)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Peace</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Djimfowler@prodigy.net =
href=3D"mailto:jimfowler@prodigy.net">Jimmy=20
  Fowler</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  title=3DLoopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@loope=
rs-delight.com</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, June 04, 2002 =
3:12=20
AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: anyone in or near =
Kansas=20
  City?</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>the band shiner is from kc, i think.&nbsp; what a =
great rock=20
  band.&nbsp; no looping, but they use orange amps!</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>-jim</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun  4 13:51:00 2002
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I'm in definite agreement here.  I use loops a lot in my music, but I don't really consider myself as making loop based music.  Looping is just a tool I use, like any other in my improvisations.  Seattle has an amazing scene, but a looping showcase is completely unnecessary since there are several avant garde weekly series in different venues that will usually feature at least two or three JamMans, Repeaters or DL4s on the stage.  So you could say that there are at least a couple looping festivals every week!  I would think that Chicago and New York are probably quite similar in this respect.

   Kevin

--
-------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Goldsmith                          kevin@unitcircle.com
Unit Circle Media                   http://www.unitcircle.com
--

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Hans Lindauer wrote:

> I'm just back from Sacramento, California, home of the 2002 TapeOp Magazine
> Conference.
> (snip)

awesome! thanks for the report, hans. hopefully i'll see ya at next year's,
pocket protector on board...

lance g.


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 > > You can also sync the rhythm to a live
 > > drummer, but the problem is, is that there is only one audio input
- so
 > > it is impossible to shield the drum sound from your own guitar
loops.
 > > However, there should be a possibility of finding a 
 > > cheap unit that will
 > > listen to the bass drum sound, and convert it into a midi BPM...
(any
 > > ideas?)
 > 
 > 
 > if you say Mac I say Pc if you say Repeater I say EDP (Echoplex
Digital
 > Pro)
 > 
 
[simon said] this sounds pretty interesting. So if have a loop setup
that I stop for some period of a tune this that when I turn it on again
I can get it synch to the bass drum automatically right? Does anyone
have an opinion as to whether this is best done with the Repeater or the
Echoplex? Can anyone recommend the hardware that could generate the midi
BPM from the bass drum as mentioned above?

Thx in advance, -simon-


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun  4 14:48:11 2002
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Subject: Re: live funk guitar loops
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 11:46:44 -0700
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check out Redsound's micro sync. never used it, but it comes well
recommended by some.

www.redsound.com

repeater will do what you want as well I believe.
Jon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Si Butler" <jazzlists@burble.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 11:20 AM
Subject: RE: live funk guitar loops


> > > You can also sync the rhythm to a live
>  > > drummer, but the problem is, is that there is only one audio input
> - so
>  > > it is impossible to shield the drum sound from your own guitar
> loops.
>  > > However, there should be a possibility of finding a
>  > > cheap unit that will
>  > > listen to the bass drum sound, and convert it into a midi BPM...
> (any
>  > > ideas?)
>  >
>  >
>  > if you say Mac I say Pc if you say Repeater I say EDP (Echoplex
> Digital
>  > Pro)
>  >
>
> [simon said] this sounds pretty interesting. So if have a loop setup
> that I stop for some period of a tune this that when I turn it on again
> I can get it synch to the bass drum automatically right? Does anyone
> have an opinion as to whether this is best done with the Repeater or the
> Echoplex? Can anyone recommend the hardware that could generate the midi
> BPM from the bass drum as mentioned above?
>
> Thx in advance, -simon-
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun  4 15:01:40 2002
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I upgraded from a Roland TD7 drum module to a TD10 a while back and
really miss this footswitch activated record/playback feature the TD7
had.  You'd press a footswitch, play (it was smart enough to not start
recording until you hit a note), and then press again to end the loop
and start it's playing.  Pressing the footswitch again put it in overdub
mode.  Just like what you guys get with your jammans/repeaters/etc but
in the Midi domain.  

Are there external boxes or drum machines that can do this kind of
thing?  Anything similar to a Korg Electribe type of groove box?  I've
been thinking about getting something along those lines anyway.

Thanks
 -Bill

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun  4 15:22:04 2002
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From: Greg House <ghunicycle@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: anyone in or near Kansas City?
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--- savior-onasis <savior-onasis@kc.rr.com> wrote:
> Just wondering if there were any people on the list from the Kansas
> City area.  

Not exactly near, but I'm in Wichita, Kansas.

Greg

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun  4 15:36:32 2002
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Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 21:33:58 +0200
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> On Tuesday, June 4, 2002, at 05:49 PM, Jon Wagner wrote:
>
> > I'd love to hear other people's ideas
> > on using the repeater "organically."

> Fran: Stuart Wyatt [mailto:stuart@solostring.com]

> 1. When you record the first loop, the record button cuts out when you
> set the end point for the loop. This can cause clicks...

That's right. The workaround I'm using is to always record the first track
of a loop into Repeater without playing. Then, when left and right loop
point is fixed you can proceed with gitchfree recording on any of the four
tracks. It's a hard trick to do this in front of an audience and still make
some musical sense...

>
> 2. Ambient drones : Anyone tried this? Notice the 'clicks'....

I never get "clicks"... (see above)

> 4. Panning - When you delete a loop of all of its tracks, the panning is
> set back to the centre for all 4 tracks. Why?

Panning (as well as pitch?) is loop based - not track based. I also disliked
this initially but now I love it. With a midi floor controller you can set
up different panning for different loops, which gives a dramatic effect when
changing loop behind your playing.

If you want the track based effects, why don't you set up your controller to
send also a pitch/pan msg together with the "active track" msg? That's a
neat trick :-)

> On its own, it is not a good organic looping tool. However, combined
> with something like the Echo Pro, Echoplex, DL4 or whatever, and a
> serious Midi controller, I think that it offers a hell of a lot of
> potential for an organic looper.

Definitely! I use it slaved to an EDP and IMHO this combo rocks! Especially
with the new Half Speed feature of the EDP. To bad you cannot change
"8th/cycle" by midi with the new EDP loop4 OS. How cool would it be to step
on a EDP button that kicks the Repeater into polyrhythmics!!!

Best wishes

Per Boysen
________________
http://loopboy.tk
www.boysen.se
www.upsweden.com
www.fuzz.se

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun  4 16:03:59 2002
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If anyone could direct me to a place where I could buy either a second
hand S. Duncan Holdsworth model,  or the new carvin Holdsworth
signature...
The former is impossible to find here in France (so far at least) and
for the later, Carvin charges a price for shipping abroad that is higher
thant the p-u itself...

Sorry for the time spent.. and ermmmm  plan to loop with it (mmmm...
cheap)

Olivier Malhomme

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun  4 16:35:23 2002
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Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 13:32:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Pedro Felix <pfelix28@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Gigging in NYC - Thursday May 30, 2002 at 9:30 pm
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Daniel -
sorry for delay in getting back to you. I utilize a
guitar and loop with an EDP and two Digitech delays.
i'm guitar-solo free for most shows thankfully.

best, Pedro


--- Daniel Pezzotti <daniel.pezzotti@span.ch> wrote:
> Hi Pedro!
> I'll be in NYC from tomorrow on...probably I'll join
> your show.
> What instruments are you playing?
> 
> Take care
> Daniel
> (celloplayer from Zurich/Switzerland)
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Pedro Felix" <pfelix28@yahoo.com>
> To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 5:05 PM
> Subject: Gigging in NYC - Thursday May 30, 2002 at
> 9:30 pm
> 
> 
> hello all-
> 
> reminder for my weekly gig Thursday, May 30, 2002 at
> Chama, 332 East 4th Street, betwixt Avenues C and D
> in
> New York City, NY. 646-654-6472
> 
> I begin ~9:30 pm and have been playing just past
> midnight. Check archives for quasi-reviews.
> 
> tales from last week's gig:
> 
> eh, none actually. I was actually hopped up to play,
> but the proprietor asked if he could have the
> evening
> to work on some items. thus, the gig was cancelled.
> I
> used the time and weekend to work on some sound
> ideas
> I plan on debuting this Thursday. Kind of a
> hyper-techno sound.
> 
> best regards, Pedro Felix - NYC 2002 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
> http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

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protecting gear at bm.



there will be playa in and on something no matter what
you do but you can minimize it a lot and then air it
all out when you get home.

last year i played with an rc-20 but this year i have a
repeater with other goodies so it's a more intense
concern for me cuz of the fucking cost if things go
wrong.
i'm imagining a very clear plastic bag with two holes
for venting in and out with a nice filtered very well
placed fan.  it would have to be pliable to access the
controls or have gloves attached like a sandblasting
booth.  or get an actual small portable sandblasting
booth.  i just saw one at harbor freight for around a
hundred.  seems kind of high but so is all the stuff
i'm protecting. 
at night that might not even be necessary as long as
it's not too windy.  if it's really windy just don't do
it.    
it's a festival worth alot in cutting edge value.  not
many places are there where 30,000 people are casting
space for hypercreativity.  it's the living womb and
you make of it what you let and relet.  
it's turning into a light/sound spiritual transcursion.

playing inside spaces that are well built for blocking
the wind and playa helps.  some structures achieve this
very hard task.  

bed sheets wrapped round and around did well.
be sure and shake'em clean often.  

the alkali is hungry for your circuitry.

plastic boxes with holes cut out for cables did well.  


one big wind  b l a s t   of powdery playa and it will
at least be externally covered.  
and soon internally.

lot's of compressed air afterwards.

be smart and then when you relize you weren't don't
give a fuck cuz of how much fun it is.

tim


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun  4 17:39:29 2002
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Subject: Portable Amplification units
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Hi,

I noticed that quite a few of you play outside, or at least would like 
the opportunity to do so :) So you might be interested in this: I 
recently aquired an Audio-One portable PA unit that  surpasses anything 
that I have played on before, and rivals the quality that you would 
expect  for a Bose hifi.

The model that I have comes in two pieces:

Top: Mid & High Range, one input + stereo line in/out - 80Watts (14KG)
Woofer: Bass (down to 14Hz I think) - 40 Watts (20KG)

Both units run off of their own internal rechargable lead batteries, for 
about 8 hours at full power.

You can see the woofer and the top unit here: 
http://www.solostring.com/images/musicora/equipment.jpg - the two are 
normally connected via a pole so that the head is at ear level.

The company makes various configurations, and can even incorporate 
wireless links between the speaker units/desks... and can make to order.

I met the maker (Thomas Wotzanek) at MusikMesse in Frankfurt (its a 
German company), and he's a cool guy. So if anyone is looking for 
something different, and a quality handbuilt product, then feel free to 
email him at: wotzasek@audio-one.de

He does not have a website yet though, but I think his English brochures 
are nearly ready.

Cheers.
--
Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
http://www.solostring.com
stuart@solostring.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun  4 17:52:50 2002
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From: "Nic Roozeboom" <nicroozeboom@hotmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: 1st EMERYVILLE LOOPING FESTIVAL?
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 14:46:45 -0700
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I live and work in the San Jose area. I'd be honored at the opportunity to 
play at a loop festival
Nic

PS plus meanwhile I could drop the wife off at IKEA

>From: Anthony Justman <pantonio@pacbell.net>
>Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>Subject: Re: 1st EMERYVILLE LOOPING FESTIVAL?
>Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 04:11:13 -0700
>
>I work in emeryville.
>
>I'd do a festival there.
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Rick Walker/Loop.pooL" <GLOBAL@cruzio.com>
>To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
>Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 4:58 PM
>Subject: 1st EMERYVILLE LOOPING FESTIVAL?
>
>
> >
> > Reading the license plate thread I notice that Alex, Timothy, Kim and 
>the,
> > as yet unamed,
> > mystery license plate looper all live in or near Emeryville.
> >
> > Why hasn't there been an EMERYVILLE LOOPING FESTIVAL?
> >
> > I'd come be a guest artist, gratis, if you guys threw such a
> > thing.............  :-)
> >
> >
> > yours,  Rick Walker (that obnoxious looping festival fella)
> >


_________________________________________________________________
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Subject: Phoenix Festival  (US Pacific NW)
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 15:13:32 -0700
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Re: Phoenix Festival  July 3-7  near Portland OR

This talk about BurningMan reminded me I should mention an event of
potential interest to those in the Pacific NW that appreciate BM.  Phoenix
Festival is a regional festival partly inspired by BM. This is the 3rd and
last of a 3 year run for the organizers. I went last year and had a great
time, and will be there this year as well. It happens on July 3-7 about an
hour east of Portland, in Southern Washington State not far from the
Columbia River.

Although the intent of the festival is open ended and encouraging of
'make-your-own-fun' theme camps, most of the people show up with just
camping gear and dance and party at one of the several DJ sound stages.  As
a result its a lot more sedate than BM. Last year had attendance of at least
1000.

Some folks do make a nice theme camp out of it though. We had a 30' diameter
dome in which I hosted a lot of music jams last year.  We had a generator,
small PA, electric looping gear as well as acoustic instruments including
lots of hand drums.  It was a ball, partly because by happen-stance some
other musicians were there and we jammed a lot.  That's the catch. The
number of people attending is a bit below critical mass, and like I say most
people are going to party, not to create an art happening. But enough do
create some artistic mayhem of one sort or another to make it a worthwhile
experience.

This year I have been planning on not even taking electric looping gear,
focusing rather on trying to make some drum circles happen. That has been
well received and I expect some good drum jams to happen. I also do plan to
bring acoustic instruments in the event other musicians are floating around.

I would love to see somebody create an electric looping theme camp of some
kind. I would bring gear to participate in that if it happened, but am not
planning on organizing such. The environment is much saner than BM, very
dry, fairly warm, but no dust storms or anything :). An electric looping
village would require some kind of shelter, generators, and such. (That's
why I'm expecting to just go acoustic this time)

Anyway, if you live in the Pacific NW and would like to attend a mellow
regional festival with a 'wee bit' of the Burning Man vibe, this is well
worth considering.

Here are some links :
main:             http://www.phoenixfest.com/
description:    http://www.phoenixfest.com/about.html
FAQ:            http://www.phoenixfest.com/faq.html

anybody wants to know more or hook up around this, drop me a line off list.

Bob Campbell
Seattle area
rcc@nwlink.com





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I'm sure BM is a very big deal, but I just have to laugh!

M...


At 02:19 PM 6/4/02 -0700, you wrote:
>protecting gear at bm.
>
>
>
>there will be playa in and on something no matter what
>you do but you can minimize it a lot and then air it
>all out when you get home.
>
>last year i played with an rc-20 but this year i have a
>repeater with other goodies so it's a more intense
>concern for me cuz of the fucking cost if things go
>wrong.
>i'm imagining a very clear plastic bag with two holes
>for venting in and out with a nice filtered very well
>placed fan.  it would have to be pliable to access the
>controls or have gloves attached like a sandblasting
>booth.  or get an actual small portable sandblasting
>booth.  i just saw one at harbor freight for around a
>hundred.  seems kind of high but so is all the stuff
>i'm protecting. 
>at night that might not even be necessary as long as
>it's not too windy.  if it's really windy just don't do
>it.    
>it's a festival worth alot in cutting edge value.  not
>many places are there where 30,000 people are casting
>space for hypercreativity.  it's the living womb and
>you make of it what you let and relet.  
>it's turning into a light/sound spiritual transcursion.
>
>playing inside spaces that are well built for blocking
>the wind and playa helps.  some structures achieve this
>very hard task.  
>
>bed sheets wrapped round and around did well.
>be sure and shake'em clean often.  
>
>the alkali is hungry for your circuitry.
>
>plastic boxes with holes cut out for cables did well.  
>
>
>one big wind  b l a s t   of powdery playa and it will
>at least be externally covered.  
>and soon internally.
>
>lot's of compressed air afterwards.
>
>be smart and then when you relize you weren't don't
>give a fuck cuz of how much fun it is.
>
>tim
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun  4 19:12:30 2002
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Subject: 3 Button Footswitch
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 18:10:57 -0500
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Does anyone know of a 3 button footswitch other than the Digitech FS300?
I am looking for something like it that connects using a TRS cable.  The
problem with the FS300 is that it doesn't work with my Eventide Eclipse.

Thanks,
Steve

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Subject: RE: Loopers do it repeatedly (was Re: Fw: THIS IS FOR REAL. (THIS IS A LOOP  BASED MUSIC LIST!)
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 16:57:29 -0700
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simple idea on how to end a loop performance...

how about putting your loop through a delay and turning up the send level to
the delay as the loop is ending (or turning the mix from dry to wet if the
delay is being used as a master insert)?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stuart Wyatt [mailto:stuart@solostring.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 12:54 AM
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Subject: Re: Loopers do it repeatedly (was Re: Fw: THIS IS FOR REAL.
> (THIS IS A LOOP BASED MUSIC LIST!)
>
>
> Its tricky to end a performance with a loop, however, the tricks that I
> use are to build up a crescendo with the electric violin towards the end
> of the piece, then hitting the stop button at the same time I hit a
> power chord on the violin.
>
> The only other way that I have found is to assign a volume pedal to the
> master volume, and do a realtime fade-out - but that sucks. I'm
> experimenting at the moment in being able to change the Repeater's
> feedback level via the assignable volume pedal. Then - towards the end
> of the loop section, you can move the feedback from 90% down to 50% or
> lower - it will allow for some quite good morphing.
>
> This should be possible to adapt with most repeaters.
>
> On Tuesday, June 4, 2002, at 01:09 AM, Peter Prisekin aka Dusty Chalk
> wrote:
>
> > The funniest thing about this thread (besides Mr. Sottilaro)
> > is that it triggered the following serious thought:
> > do loopers know how to quit?
> >
> > This has been a frustration for me lately.  There are the
> > obvious two choices:  repeat and fade, and abrupt stop
> > (usually during a rest).  Also, there's the obvious variation
> > of de-evolution -- I.E., if you've built up a loop with layers,
> > deconstruct it back down by removing layers, but when you're
> > down to the last loop, be it the one you started with, or a
> > different one, you still have to make one of the two above
> > choices.  I've been thinking of trying to "morph" from a loop
> > to live playing, but have not been successful in an accurate
> > resemblance of the loop, so I usually go for a completely
> > different sound, but maybe playing the same riff.  Any other
> > ideas?
> >
> > Favourite license plate (un-loop-related):  PLAN A (and then
> > written on the bumper: "HEAD")
> > --
> > I remain,
> > :-Peter aka :-Dusty :-Chalk
> >
> >
> >
> --
> Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
> http://www.solostring.com
> stuart@solostring.com
>
>

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From: "Paul Weissman" <paul@nioterra.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: RE: Keeping gear clean at Burning Man
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 16:57:28 -0700
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> gear), it is
> as fine an example of a "Scene" (see earlier posts) as one could find--

i agree... and what's really amazing about burning man is that it's managed
to keep it's 'cool scene'ness even as it has grown.  some may disagree, but
really... with 25,000 people attending every year it's still an amazingly
cool thing that happens, with much of the original atmosphere still intact.

there's good lessons to be learned... the burningman organization kept their
coolness by keeping strict control over media and removing commerce
completely.  interesting things to think about.

paul



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gary Lehmann [mailto:healthquestrecruiter@earthlink.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 12:41 AM
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Subject: RE: Keeping gear clean at Burning Man
>
>
> Just want to point out that (although I have never gone to Burning Man and
> am not likely to camp out in the stinking desert with treasured
> gear), it is
> as fine an example of a "Scene" (see earlier posts) as one could find--
> Gary
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Sottilaro [mailto:sine@zerocrossing.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 12:00 AM
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Subject: Keeping gear clean at Burning Man
>
>
> Here's how I keep my gear clean as a whistle at Burning Man.  First,
> find a nice muddy area near your home and roll around in it naked for a
> while.  Let it dry and then crumble it off.  If you can't find such a
> mud situation, you can get facial grade beauty mud, which I'd actually
> recommend, but it's expensive.  Get most of it off, leaving a fine dusty
> layer on you skin.  You can wash your hands but try to keep it at a
> minimum.  Don't bathe the day before (or two...)
>
> Prior to this, stop at a army surplus store and buy some RTE meals in
> those foil pouches.  Yum.  Don't forget to stay hydrated!
>
> Next, get all your gear set up and ready to use.  Turn it all on and
> make sure it's all working 100%.   Then (this is the important part)
> DON'T LEAVE YOUR HOME.  That's right.
>
> Don't go.
>
> Instead, take a hit or two of acid (which you were going to do anyway)
> and make all the damn noise you want! invite others for extra realistic
> Burning Man action!  If you need to see more naked people, the internet
> is chock full of sites.  Turning up the heat and all your halogen lamps
> is also a plus, but I personally try not to waste natural resources.  At
> the end of the day, light a roman candle if you can get your hands on
> one.  If not some nice Jesus votive candles are fine, and inexpensive.
>
> I've actually tested the above method, and I can confirm it's
> effectiveness.  The next day, there's a little pocket of dirt near your
> gear, but it's mostly clean as it ever was!
>
> Burning Mark Sottilaro
>
>
> On Monday, June 3, 2002, at 10:28  PM, Paul Weissman wrote:
>
> >
> >> i hope you're all looping at burningman.
> >
> > speaking of which... anyone figured out how to bring gear out to the
> > desert
> > without it getting dust infested yet?
> >
> > i want to build a hermetically sealed chamber for electronic gear,
> > unless
> > there's a better way someone has already thought of...
> >
> >
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun  4 19:58:50 2002
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From: "Paul Weissman" <paul@nioterra.com>
To: <kevin@unitcircle.com>, <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Seattle loop groop?  - RE: Looper Moving! - scenes, genres, and distinctions
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true enough... but what's cool about a dedicated looping meeting is what's
cool about a dedicated loop list... sharing ideas about how to use looping
in music.

anyone want to set up a meeting/performance night in seattle?  sounds like
we got a few people here.

paul



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kevin Goldsmith [mailto:kevin@unitcircle.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 10:49 AM
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Subject: Re: Looper Moving! - scenes, genres, and distinctions
>
>
> I'm in definite agreement here.  I use loops a lot in my music,
> but I don't really consider myself as making loop based music.
> Looping is just a tool I use, like any other in my
> improvisations.  Seattle has an amazing scene, but a looping
> showcase is completely unnecessary since there are several avant
> garde weekly series in different venues that will usually feature
> at least two or three JamMans, Repeaters or DL4s on the stage.
> So you could say that there are at least a couple looping
> festivals every week!  I would think that Chicago and New York
> are probably quite similar in this respect.
>
>    Kevin
>
> --
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> Kevin Goldsmith                          kevin@unitcircle.com
> Unit Circle Media                   http://www.unitcircle.com
> --
>
>

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yeah, and i have a laptop.  ugh.

so i was thinking of building one of those giant plexiglass cases that have
holes cut out in the side with gloves stuck on them so you can play with
stuff in the box... just like in all those neat chem labs.    the added
bonus is you could deck it out and put it on an art car or something...
weee!

i was thinking NO ventillation.  just don't take the thing out during the
day AT ALL.  night time only.  i just wonder if it would survive during the
day covered up... do laptops melt in the shade in the desert?  but then
there's the problem of cords... if this thing is sealed, how do i get the
cords out?

did you see the roving soundsystem that was built into that armored
vehicle/big jeep thing last year?  they had that neat plexiglass dj pod in
the middle and all those tvs stuck on the front, above the bass bins,
broadcasting visuals that another dude was making from inside the drivers
compartment.  and it was a damn good sound system too... bitchin.

> From: Mark Sottilaro [mailto:sine@zerocrossing.net]
> Instead, take a hit or two of acid (which you were going to do anyway)
> and make all the damn noise you want! invite others for extra realistic

or you could do this... but then your gear doesn't get messed up!  and where
is all the telltale dust on your car/bike/clothes/nostrils/records/etc?
what fun is that!?


paul



> -----Original Message-----
> From: seemso@directvinternet.com [mailto:seemso@directvinternet.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 2:19 PM
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Subject: protection
>
>
> protecting gear at bm.
>
>
>
> there will be playa in and on something no matter what
> you do but you can minimize it a lot and then air it
> all out when you get home.
>
> last year i played with an rc-20 but this year i have a
> repeater with other goodies so it's a more intense
> concern for me cuz of the fucking cost if things go
> wrong.
> i'm imagining a very clear plastic bag with two holes
> for venting in and out with a nice filtered very well
> placed fan.  it would have to be pliable to access the
> controls or have gloves attached like a sandblasting
> booth.  or get an actual small portable sandblasting
> booth.  i just saw one at harbor freight for around a
> hundred.  seems kind of high but so is all the stuff
> i'm protecting.
> at night that might not even be necessary as long as
> it's not too windy.  if it's really windy just don't do
> it.
> it's a festival worth alot in cutting edge value.  not
> many places are there where 30,000 people are casting
> space for hypercreativity.  it's the living womb and
> you make of it what you let and relet.
> it's turning into a light/sound spiritual transcursion.
>
> playing inside spaces that are well built for blocking
> the wind and playa helps.  some structures achieve this
> very hard task.
>
> bed sheets wrapped round and around did well.
> be sure and shake'em clean often.
>
> the alkali is hungry for your circuitry.
>
> plastic boxes with holes cut out for cables did well.
>
>
> one big wind  b l a s t   of powdery playa and it will
> at least be externally covered.
> and soon internally.
>
> lot's of compressed air afterwards.
>
> be smart and then when you relize you weren't don't
> give a fuck cuz of how much fun it is.
>
> tim
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun  4 20:09:15 2002
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You might want to check out The Seattle SoniCabal http://www.sonicabal.com
if you are looking for like-minded looping folks, most of the members use looping devices in their performances (including me).

As far as performances, there is always the tentacle
(www.tentacle.org)


Kevin



---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Paul Weissman" <paul@nioterra.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 16:57:29 -0700

>
>true enough... but what's cool about a dedicated looping meeting is what's
>cool about a dedicated loop list... sharing ideas about how to use looping
>in music.
>
>anyone want to set up a meeting/performance night in seattle?  sounds like
>we got a few people here.
>
>paul
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Kevin Goldsmith [mailto:kevin@unitcircle.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 10:49 AM
>> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>> Subject: Re: Looper Moving! - scenes, genres, and distinctions
>>
>>
>> I'm in definite agreement here.  I use loops a lot in my music,
>> but I don't really consider myself as making loop based music.
>> Looping is just a tool I use, like any other in my
>> improvisations.  Seattle has an amazing scene, but a looping
>> showcase is completely unnecessary since there are several avant
>> garde weekly series in different venues that will usually feature
>> at least two or three JamMans, Repeaters or DL4s on the stage.
>> So you could say that there are at least a couple looping
>> festivals every week!  I would think that Chicago and New York
>> are probably quite similar in this respect.
>>
>>    Kevin
>>
>> --
>> -------------------------------------------------------------
>> Kevin Goldsmith                          kevin@unitcircle.com
>> Unit Circle Media                   http://www.unitcircle.com
>> --
>>
>>
>
>

--
-------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Goldsmith                          kevin@unitcircle.com
Unit Circle Media                   http://www.unitcircle.com
--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun  4 20:24:34 2002
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I believe that you can indeed do this, by using presets (although I
haven't tried it yet).

-Hans


> Too bad you cannot change
> "8th/cycle" by midi with the new EDP loop4 OS. How cool would it be to step
> on a EDP button that kicks the Repeater into polyrhythmics!!!
> 
> Per Boysen

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun  4 23:05:19 2002
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To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
References: <000501c20b4b$29b648e0$5a01a8c0@burble.innet>
Subject: Re: live funk guitar loops
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 18:00:27 -0300
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>
> I've had a scan through the archives and don't seem to be able to find
> many recommendations for creating funk loops in a live situation.

i been using loops live but totally free/out of sync with the band ... no
attack at the begining of the loop and fade out at the final ... sort of
clouds  behind the groove or under my improvisations ... some noises
between  the songs ... feedback layers under the solo or feedback solo
harmonies ... at home it's diferent ... composing , trainning etcetctect

go here and check the MP3 songs Sonhos Lerdos and Canguru ...

http://artists3.iuma.com/IUMA/Bands/Crac/


regards ...
julio




I have
> a funk trio (guit,bass,drums) and want to be able to set up and loop the
> guitar grooves live. I have the rc-20 but I think I'll have to modify it
> to give a click track out for the drummer if everything is to stay in
> synch (I'll be starting and stopping the loops depending on where we are
> in the arrangement). I really like the quantize aspect of the rc-20
> though. Is this something that could be just as easily achieved with the
> echoplex?
> I'd like to be able set up a tempo (preferably by tapping my foot on a
> pedal) and then have the unit auto-start recording my phase when I start
> playing and stop recording when I stop playing. This phase would then
> get quantized to a perfect 1/2 bar length so that I don't have to mess
> around hitting the stop button at exactly the right moment.. as I
> mentioned above I would then the unit to generate a click track (that
> would be continuous, independent of whether the guitar phrase is playing
> or not) that a drummer could listen to to ensure he remains synched up
> for the duration of the performance. This ensures that I can stop/start
> the loop and it will always be in synch with the drummer.
>
> Is this a tall order, can I do this with the echoplex and some
> imagination?
>
> Appreciate any insight, -simon-
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun  4 23:46:13 2002
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To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
References: <B921B777.FA2%darrell367@earthlink.net> <000e01c20c2e$11b811e0$edb55e18@kc.rr.com> <005301c20b75$adb2ca90$02f8c440@g0wn7> <001701c20c8e$f7a3ed40$edb55e18@kc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: anyone in or near Kansas City?
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 22:41:07 +0100
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Re: anyone in or near Kansas City?oh, i know orange has nothing to do =
with looping.  shiner doesn't loop anything! =20

orange amps still kick serious ass (if you can get one up and =
running)...

and "egg" has stayed in my car ever since i bought it.

-jim

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Re: anyone in or near Kansas City?</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>oh, i know orange has nothing to do with =
looping.&nbsp; shiner=20
doesn't loop anything!&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>orange amps still kick serious ass (if you can get =
one up and=20
running)...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>and "egg" has stayed in my car ever since i bought=20
it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>-jim</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C20C18.EAF023F0--


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun  4 23:48:45 2002
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From: Kim Flint <kflint@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Re: time signature changes in LoopIV
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>At 05:18 PM 6/4/2002, Hans Lindauer wrote:
>I believe that you can indeed do this, by using presets (although I
>haven't tried it yet).
>
>-Hans
>
>
> > Too bad you cannot change
> > "8th/cycle" by midi with the new EDP loop4 OS. How cool would it be to step
> > on a EDP button that kicks the Repeater into polyrhythmics!!!
> >
> > Per Boysen


Hans is correct, the expected way to do this in LoopIV is by setting the 
values you want as a preset and changing it with a midi program change command.

If you want to get more sophisticated, you can also edit anything you want 
with sysex. For example, a short sysex string for the 8th/cycle parameter 
could be sent to edit it to any value you like. The preset way is much 
simpler though.

You can also still do the way that worked in LoopIII, by virtually pressing 
the corresponding front panel buttons with a string of midi commands.

There is another great new feature related to this. Changes of 8th/cycle 
intelligently wait to the next cycle point to go into effect. This way your 
time signature changes occur in rhythm and the beat is not lost. Without a 
feature like this, time signature changes become difficult to do accurately 
and make the idea hardly worth it. But with the EDP helping you out a bit 
and making sure the change happens in rhythm it's easy and great fun!

kim



______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun  5 00:43:44 2002
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Subject: Re: Looper Moving!
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 23:39:46 +0100
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personally, i'm moving because i'm tired of being bored (and no,
creating/indulging in the current "scene" isn't an option).  as far as i'm
concerned, sf and new york appear to be the cultural centers (as far as
variety and availability go) and i don't think i'd get along well with nyc.

-jim


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun  5 01:23:37 2002
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Me too!  Want in on that duet! ;^)

Mark

On Tuesday, June 4, 2002, at 10:36  AM, Jon Wagner wrote:

>> Depending, of course, on timing and dates...you can count me in too!!
>> Would love the chance to mingle and chat with all of you again....and 
>> Jon,
>> perhaps a chance to duet with you bassndrumsnloops....?
>
> Boo-Ya, Primo, Sweet, and other positive adjectives. yes.
> Jon
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun  5 01:25:02 2002
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Hey there list,

Right after my last post with soundfile links, my email started acting
very odd indeed (and continues to do so).   I've missed a ton of posts
to the list, and if anyone's been trying to mail me privately since
about midnight last night, it's currently (and perhaps eternally) lost
in the mists of time.  If you do need to get in touch, please use the
altruist@earthlink.net and/or altruist@shoko.calarts.edu addresses.

Sorry for the hassle/bother/momentary delusions of grandeur...

--Andre LaFosse
http://www.altruistmusic.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun  5 01:27:03 2002
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On Tuesday, June 4, 2002, at 11:46  AM, Jon Wagner wrote:

> check out Redsound's micro sync. never used it, but it comes well
> recommended by some.
>
> www.redsound.com
>
> repeater will do what you want as well I believe.
> Jon
>
I've not actually tried it with a real drummer, but I compared the 
Repeater's bpm counter with what I knew my Roland MC-307 was spitting 
out, and it was amazingly on, even when I changed tempos.  I tried a lot 
of stuff, from very shuffley hip hop stuff, to your basic techno, which 
I imagine is easier.  Seemed to work great.

Mark Sottilaro

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun  5 01:33:00 2002
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On Tuesday, June 4, 2002, at 12:33  PM, Per Boysen wrote:

>
> That's right. The workaround I'm using is to always record the first 
> track
> of a loop into Repeater without playing. Then, when left and right loop
> point is fixed you can proceed with gitchfree recording on any of the 
> four
> tracks. It's a hard trick to do this in front of an audience and still 
> make
> some musical sense...
>
I've had luck with this method too.  What I did was prerecord blank 
loops that corrasponded to something like 8 bars of a drum loop I'd be 
looping over.  It works well, because I can go right into record when 
the drums start (they start the blank loop with a midi message)  I 
stopped doing this when I do shows with other musicians.

Mark Sottlaro

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Subject: RE: TapeOpCon 2002 Report  (and Looper Sighting)
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hey hans...

just wanted to say, thanks for the tapeopcon report!  i was SO wishing i
went... it was really killing me... at least this way i felt like i was
partially there.  ;)  hopefully next year i'll be able to get there.

thanks!

paul

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hans Lindauer [mailto:armatronix@charter.net]
> Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 9:29 PM
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Subject: TapeOpCon 2002 Report (and Looper Sighting)
>
>
> I'm just back from Sacramento, California, home of the 2002
> TapeOp Magazine
> Conference.  It was a very interesting and informative weekend, and it
> would have been perfect if I hadn't had my rear windshield broken and my
> entire CD collection and my electronic repair kit stolen out of my
> car.  Even so, however, it was a great time.
>
> Mr. Steve Albini gave the keynote address on Friday night, which
> was mostly
> an introduction to the Laffer Curve.  The Laffer Curve is a bell-shaped
> curve which essentially states that you need to keep your gear lust in
> check.  Someday I'd like to hear his entire speech concerning Spock's
> emotional and irrational behavior during his time of Pon Farr in Episode
> 23, but he only gave the first ten minutes this weekend as a way
> of calling
> us all a bunch of loser geeks.
>
> And geeks there were aplenty.  The kind with glasses and pocket
> protectors
> and garages or spare bedrooms full of the kind of gear that puts large
> studios out of business.  Rules were laid out in the beginning of the
> conference banning any type of analog vs. digital debate, Steely Dan
> bashing, or general gear-queerness, but we still were able to
> find lots to
> talk about.  There were excellent panel discussions on mastering,
> production, studio design, and the future of recording, just to name a
> few.  Q&A sessions followed each panel discussion, which was very
> nice.  I
> learned a lot during every panel.
>
> The event was held at the Crest Theater in downtown Sacramento, which is
> the most beautiful art deco theater I may ever see.  I was signed up as a
> volunteer, but ended up serving as Front of House Engineer by
> default.  Nobody else wanted to do it, I guess, and I had nothing to
> lose.  Anybody who reads TapeOp will see the absurdity of mixing
> FOH with a
> digital console to that crowd. :)
>
> There were a number of great performances at night at two different
> venues.  I got tired and missed Calexico the first night, but caught a
> couple of really good bands the second night: the Freight Train Riders
> featuring one of the Fried Brothers on fiddle, and J. Mascis
> playing guitar
> and singing solo.  Mr. Mascis is an interesting character, who happens to
> be a Looper!  He was using one of those Z.Vex analog looper pedals, which
> I've been wondering about lately.  It did indeed sound crappy,
> just like in
> the advertisement, but not bad as long as you don't need any tone above
> about 5 KHz.  I considered telling him about some higher-fidelity looping
> gear, but he didn't really seem like he wanted to talk to anybody, and
> besides that he's an analog guy anyway....
>
> This year went really well, so I'm sure there will be another TapeOpCon
> next year (not in Sacramento).  I'll be there for sure, and
> hopefully I'll
> see some of you there as well.
>
> -Hans Lindauer
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun  5 02:25:12 2002
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From: "Rick Walker/Loop.pooL" <GLOBAL@cruzio.com>
To: "Loopers Delight" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Why I produce LOOPING FESTIVALS:  is looping a valid musical artform?
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 23:22:54 -0700
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Dear Fellow Loopers (and fellow artists who don't consider themselves
loopers but use looping tools in their music).

I've been reading with increasing interest about potential Looping Festivals
in places as far flung as Emeryville, California,
Seattle Washington and somewhere, mysteriously, in Germany.

I've also noticed that the debate keeps coming up about whether LOOPING
should be considered a separate musical artform
or whether such festivals are "legitimate" or not.   Indeed, in the past, I
have spiritedly debated this with our list coordinator (but
NOT leader) the esteemed and talented, Kim Flint.

I can't answer that question for anybody.  Each person needs to have their
own take on it and figure out where they stand,
but I have produced 14 Looping specific Festivals in Northern California in
the last three years (with several festivals in the works for later this
summer and next year)  and I thought it might be good to let everybody know
why I am working as hard as I am to promote the cause of LOOPING.   I am
making NO MONEY doing any of it directly (although more on that subject
later ;-).

With regards to the debate about Looping as an artform or Looping as merely
a tool that individual artists use in their works:

Music is music and obviously with the diversity of styles and types of
 musics on this looping site alone (from   Tom Heasley's gorgeous Tuba
mantras to Richard Zvonar's sample manipulations to Andre LaFosse's
brilliant abstract guitar excursions to my wacky  'found sound' aesthetic to
Stan Card's surf rock grooves
to Steve Lawson's wonderfully melodic and crazy electric bass mantras,   we
can't consider
 Looping to be a 'form' of music.

Why then, for god's sake, do I produce Looping Festivals?

 Here's the answer:

 1)  I want to foster community.................something sadly lacking in
 our culture...............

Calling ourselves loopers creates a sense of  family and belonging.
This feeling was very palpable, as I'm sure anyone who was there would
agree, at
 Hans LIndauers' LOOPSTOCK in San Luis Obispo.................enough so that
Larry O graciously wrote us up in Electronic Musician last month.

 2)  Journalists and Radio DJs are sick of the status quo................we
 have not been in such a horrible static slump in mainstream
 pop music in almost 30 years.     Calling attention to the new technology,
 Looping,  both educates and gives journalists and radio/televison dj/vjs a
 handle................it makes them feel like they are part of the cutting
 edge.............it gets great publicity:
 I'm performed on air to a million people for a total of about 3 1/2 hours
in
 the last three years because of my efforts to promote
 'looping'...................

     You just can't get that kind of exposure any
 other way as someone who is 'out of the box'  (the dominant, major label
 paradigm that has strangled creativity for so long).

 3)     I'm so invested, personally (and I think we should all be as
independent
 artists) in exiting that box (lawyers, contracts, distributors, labels and
 usury in general).   Being part of a new 'movement', such as it is, is just
 a way of identifying with something that doesn't have a strong
 precedent..........It's a way of getting people's attention that something
 'new' is coming.   People are starved for new creativity.   Mark my words,
 the next 3-5 years will see a new musical explosion even in major label pop
 because people are so starved for something outside of the Major Label
paradigm.

 4) Just having something tangible (the label LOOPING) to identify with has
 gotten me offers to do musuem gigs, festivals, tours,
 soundtracks, modern dance commissions and resulted in several artistic
successes.

Two cases in point:

A)   The World's First Bass Looping Tour featuring bassists  Michael
Manring, Steve Lawson, Max Valentino
and myself (as the only bass playing non-bass player on the tour enabled us
to
play a 30 minute set on KPIG, the worlds' largest internet radio
station.......2 weeks later, the head of TALKBASS.com
e-mailed me and told me that mentioning his website and the tour diary that
we posted every night after each cities' performance
had caused 20% raise in the hits to his site and that his website traffic
had stayed up consitently for at least the next two weeks.
He was very appreciative and I felt very proud of all the artists who
participate in that.

B)   The success of this tour's performance so excited the director of the
San Jose Museum of Art that they have subsequently
hired me to curate a whole series of shows that showcase emerging trends and
technologies in both Music and Live Video
Animation.    This has already resulted in the planning of the 1ST WOMAN's
LOOPING FESTIVAL on Friday, October 4th,
the FESTIVAL of LIVE COMPUTER ANIMATION, where top artists in this field
will be 'jamming' visually with the loop based music
of WALKERS (my duet project with my brother,  Bill Walker) and subsequent
BASS LOOPING festivals and festivals of Experimental Guitar.


 5) This new technology is allowing certain kinds of
 music to be made that has never been possible before
 and , certainly, never by one human being.................I can do really
 'outside' timbral things and suddenly incorporate them into
 a pop song in real time, if I want.................Some of the work being
done
with Repeaters, EDPs, MAX/Dsp  and !LIVE computer looping software
is unlike any other music that I have heard from one or two performers.

For the first time ever, I can sample or loop a found object right in front
of an
audiences face and then 'play' that sample like a melodic instrument with
my wind synthesizer (or any other midi controller:  guitarists, synthesists,
drummer/percussionists
take note).    Heretofore,  audiences have not been able to
connect strongly with how much the sampling world has effected modern music.

6)  I learn like a m*therf*cker every time I do a festival with other
loopers.  I get my creative juices
stimulated incredibly.  I produce better 'art' when I perform at a festival.

That's why I produce Looping Festivals..................in what other way
would I successfully be able to
promote a concert with myself and , say, a genius like Tom
Heasley..........what do we have in common:
LOOPING!!!


We are in the baby stages of learning this technology (or at least, I am)
and in learning how
to 'put it out' to the world in a viable way.

 Vis a viz, making money with Looping, as far as I can see, it cannot be
done much yet, but it is only a matter
of time.

 So what I shoot for is:

 1) not losing too much money with a tour (I have a 12 country solo looping
 tour scheduled for Europe and the British Isles for
 next summer (2003).  I

 2) making as big a splash as possible by aggresively connecting to
 indedpendent, pirate and college radio DJs and journalists

 3)  Always roping in one to several other artists (usually loopers in my
 particular case) to
    a)  double or quadruple our draw and
    b)  create a sense of community
    c)  save expense money by scoring 'floors' to sleep on :-)
    d)  meet and collaborate with new artists  (I'm an improviser, so I love
           to do two solo sets and then a set of imrpov at nights' end)

Those are my thoughts on the subject.   To anyone who is remotely
considering putting on a looping festival
in their locale, please consider me a source for moral support and/or
advice/information about what I"ve learned
to make these events have maximum impact.

To those of you who grumble and say "I don't care what he says, Looping is
not a musical form"  I say,
so be it................no need to compromise your values and
aesthetics..............but it is o.k. to let
us naive ones' have our fun, right?     Also,  I would invite you to come to
the after performance dinner
(or breakfast as in the case of Loopstock) and soak up a little of the
wonderful and exciting artistic
giddiness and vibes that happen there.   After Loopstock, I was brimming
with so many ideas for
new things to do that I'm afraid I wore my poor brothers ear off on the 3
hour trip home...........I was high for
weeks.........I'll bet others were as well (thanks so much Hans).

Do I reveal myself for the idealistic, communalist, aging hippy that I am?
DAMN STRAIGHT!!!!!

Loop on my friends and go get 'em Emeryville, Seattle, Chicago, New York,
Germany, Wales, London, Paris and anyother
place that is considering having a looping festival.

yours,    Rick Walker (loop.pool)


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun  5 02:56:24 2002
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> Från: Rick Walker/Loop.pooL [mailto:GLOBAL@cruzio.com]

> Dear Fellow Loopers.....

That's a brilliant manifesto, Rick! It inspired me to take a new view on
this music, and the ways to get it out and into peoples ears. Before I
considered my own music being "improvised music" or eventually
"experimental" (looping is just another tool/instrument in the concept) but,
as you say, there is a great promotional value in calling it "looping
music".

Best wishes

Per Boysen
________________
http://loopboy.tk
www.boysen.se
www.upsweden.com
www.fuzz.se


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun  5 03:06:59 2002
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Hey Andre-
listened to this at work today. I have to say, you rock. or spin. or 
whatever, it's good.

blown away,
kim


At 11:25 PM 6/3/2002, Andre LaFosse wrote:
>Dear list,
>
>Here's some LoopIV sounds for you.
>
>1) Funk meditation.
>http://www.altruistmusic.com/soundfiles/asana.mp3
>
>2) A bit of old skool hip hop.  Word.
>http://www.altruistmusic.com/soundfiles/alignment.mp3
>
>3) Polyrhythmic Industrial by Hallmark.
>http://www.altruistmusic.com/soundfiles/generator.mp3
>
>4) Glitch-core gets some dancing shows.
>http://www.altruistmusic.com/soundfiles/glitch.mp3
>
>5) A dark, heavy thing.  Dude.
>http://www.altruistmusic.com/soundfiles/insinuation.mp3
>
>6) Cruising in your space car.
>http://www.altruistmusic.com/soundfiles/umbra.mp3
>

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com

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> >I believe that you can indeed do this, by using presets (although I
> >haven't tried it yet).
> >
> >-Hans

> > > Too bad you cannot change
> > > "8th/cycle" by midi with the new EDP loop4 OS. How cool would
> it be to step
> > > on a EDP button that kicks the Repeater into polyrhythmics!!!
> > >
> > > Per Boysen

> Hans is correct, the expected way to do this in LoopIV is by setting the
> values you want as a preset and changing it with a midi program
> change command.
>
> kim

Oh... That's brilliant! I didn't find this in the preliminary manual I was
sent as an email. But now I got hold of a full PDF manual and will be
checking it out deeply. I'm also supposed to write an EDP review for the
Swedish guitar player mag FUZZ, so I'm checking out LoopIV not only from my
own perpective as a musician/user.

Best wishes

Per Boysen
________________
http://loopboy.tk
www.boysen.se
www.upsweden.com
www.fuzz.se

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On Wednesday, June 5, 2002, at 08:22 AM, Rick Walker/Loop.pooL wrote:

> and somewhere, mysteriously, in Germany.

I'm in France, which is not so far away. Does anyone have any info about 
this? Where? When? etc. etc. :)


--
Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
http://www.solostring.com
stuart@solostring.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun  5 08:42:34 2002
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Is the LoopIV PDF manual available for download somewhere?

Thanks,
Steve

> manual I was sent as an email. But now I got hold of a full 
> PDF manual and will be checking it out deeply. I'm also 
> supposed to write an EDP review for the Swedish guitar player 
> mag FUZZ, so I'm checking out LoopIV not only from my own 
> perpective as a musician/user.
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun  5 08:49:48 2002
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From: "M. Steven Ginn" <sginn@airmail.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Tap Tempo with EDP
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 07:47:09 -0500
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What is the best way to manage Tap Tempo in a system?  Is it better to
use an Eventide Eclipse (or any effects processor for that matter) or is
it better to use the EDP as the main source?

Thanks,
Steve

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Hello every body, this is my first mail to the Looooooooplist !

I am looking for a midi looper. A tool that would not sample an audio source, but store midi events.

I know that good sequencers can do that, but I want a small and cheap one.

Does someone know this kind of thing ?



---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en français !

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<P>Hello every body, this is my first mail to the Looooooooplist !</P>
<P>I am looking for a midi looper. A tool that would not sample an audio source, but store midi events.</P>
<P>I know that good sequencers can do that, but I want a small and cheap one.</P>
<P>Does someone know this kind of thing ?</P><p><br><hr size=1><a href="http://fr.mail.yahoo.com">Yahoo! Mail</a> -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en français !<br>
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun  5 09:49:52 2002
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Subject: Re: Why I produce LOOPING FESTIVALS: is looping a valid musical artform?
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 09:46:12 -0400
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Thanks for those inspiring words Rick.  I hope to someday have a Loopfest in 
Charleston, WV.  If you or any other loopers are this way and want to improv 
or just need a place to stay please email me! West Virginia is Wild and 
Wonderful!

Weg


From: "Rick Walker/Loop.pooL" <GLOBAL@cruzio.com>
Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
To: "Loopers Delight" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Why I produce LOOPING FESTIVALS:  is looping a valid musical 
artform?
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Dear Fellow Loopers (and fellow artists who don't consider themselves
loopers but use looping tools in their music).

I've been reading with increasing interest about potential Looping Festivals
in places as far flung as Emeryville, California,
Seattle Washington and somewhere, mysteriously, in Germany.

I've also noticed that the debate keeps coming up about whether LOOPING
should be considered a separate musical artform
or whether such festivals are "legitimate" or not.   Indeed, in the past, I
have spiritedly debated this with our list coordinator (but
NOT leader) the esteemed and talented, Kim Flint.

I can't answer that question for anybody.  Each person needs to have their
own take on it and figure out where they stand,
but I have produced 14 Looping specific Festivals in Northern California in
the last three years (with several festivals in the works for later this
summer and next year)  and I thought it might be good to let everybody know
why I am working as hard as I am to promote the cause of LOOPING.   I am
making NO MONEY doing any of it directly (although more on that subject
later ;-).

With regards to the debate about Looping as an artform or Looping as merely
a tool that individual artists use in their works:

Music is music and obviously with the diversity of styles and types of
  musics on this looping site alone (from   Tom Heasley's gorgeous Tuba
mantras to Richard Zvonar's sample manipulations to Andre LaFosse's
brilliant abstract guitar excursions to my wacky  'found sound' aesthetic to
Stan Card's surf rock grooves
to Steve Lawson's wonderfully melodic and crazy electric bass mantras,   we
can't consider
  Looping to be a 'form' of music.

Why then, for god's sake, do I produce Looping Festivals?

  Here's the answer:

  1)  I want to foster community.................something sadly lacking in
  our culture...............

Calling ourselves loopers creates a sense of  family and belonging.
This feeling was very palpable, as I'm sure anyone who was there would
agree, at
  Hans LIndauers' LOOPSTOCK in San Luis Obispo.................enough so 
that
Larry O graciously wrote us up in Electronic Musician last month.

  2)  Journalists and Radio DJs are sick of the status quo................we
  have not been in such a horrible static slump in mainstream
  pop music in almost 30 years.     Calling attention to the new technology,
  Looping,  both educates and gives journalists and radio/televison dj/vjs a
  handle................it makes them feel like they are part of the cutting
  edge.............it gets great publicity:
  I'm performed on air to a million people for a total of about 3 1/2 hours
in
  the last three years because of my efforts to promote
  'looping'...................

      You just can't get that kind of exposure any
  other way as someone who is 'out of the box'  (the dominant, major label
  paradigm that has strangled creativity for so long).

  3)     I'm so invested, personally (and I think we should all be as
independent
  artists) in exiting that box (lawyers, contracts, distributors, labels and
  usury in general).   Being part of a new 'movement', such as it is, is 
just
  a way of identifying with something that doesn't have a strong
  precedent..........It's a way of getting people's attention that something
  'new' is coming.   People are starved for new creativity.   Mark my words,
  the next 3-5 years will see a new musical explosion even in major label 
pop
  because people are so starved for something outside of the Major Label
paradigm.

  4) Just having something tangible (the label LOOPING) to identify with has
  gotten me offers to do musuem gigs, festivals, tours,
  soundtracks, modern dance commissions and resulted in several artistic
successes.

Two cases in point:

A)   The World's First Bass Looping Tour featuring bassists  Michael
Manring, Steve Lawson, Max Valentino
and myself (as the only bass playing non-bass player on the tour enabled us
to
play a 30 minute set on KPIG, the worlds' largest internet radio
station.......2 weeks later, the head of TALKBASS.com
e-mailed me and told me that mentioning his website and the tour diary that
we posted every night after each cities' performance
had caused 20% raise in the hits to his site and that his website traffic
had stayed up consitently for at least the next two weeks.
He was very appreciative and I felt very proud of all the artists who
participate in that.

B)   The success of this tour's performance so excited the director of the
San Jose Museum of Art that they have subsequently
hired me to curate a whole series of shows that showcase emerging trends and
technologies in both Music and Live Video
Animation.    This has already resulted in the planning of the 1ST WOMAN's
LOOPING FESTIVAL on Friday, October 4th,
the FESTIVAL of LIVE COMPUTER ANIMATION, where top artists in this field
will be 'jamming' visually with the loop based music
of WALKERS (my duet project with my brother,  Bill Walker) and subsequent
BASS LOOPING festivals and festivals of Experimental Guitar.


  5) This new technology is allowing certain kinds of
  music to be made that has never been possible before
  and , certainly, never by one human being.................I can do really
  'outside' timbral things and suddenly incorporate them into
  a pop song in real time, if I want.................Some of the work being
done
with Repeaters, EDPs, MAX/Dsp  and !LIVE computer looping software
is unlike any other music that I have heard from one or two performers.

For the first time ever, I can sample or loop a found object right in front
of an
audiences face and then 'play' that sample like a melodic instrument with
my wind synthesizer (or any other midi controller:  guitarists, synthesists,
drummer/percussionists
take note).    Heretofore,  audiences have not been able to
connect strongly with how much the sampling world has effected modern music.

6)  I learn like a m*therf*cker every time I do a festival with other
loopers.  I get my creative juices
stimulated incredibly.  I produce better 'art' when I perform at a festival.

That's why I produce Looping Festivals..................in what other way
would I successfully be able to
promote a concert with myself and , say, a genius like Tom
Heasley..........what do we have in common:
LOOPING!!!


We are in the baby stages of learning this technology (or at least, I am)
and in learning how
to 'put it out' to the world in a viable way.

  Vis a viz, making money with Looping, as far as I can see, it cannot be
done much yet, but it is only a matter
of time.

  So what I shoot for is:

  1) not losing too much money with a tour (I have a 12 country solo looping
  tour scheduled for Europe and the British Isles for
  next summer (2003).  I

  2) making as big a splash as possible by aggresively connecting to
  indedpendent, pirate and college radio DJs and journalists

  3)  Always roping in one to several other artists (usually loopers in my
  particular case) to
     a)  double or quadruple our draw and
     b)  create a sense of community
     c)  save expense money by scoring 'floors' to sleep on :-)
     d)  meet and collaborate with new artists  (I'm an improviser, so I 
love
            to do two solo sets and then a set of imrpov at nights' end)

Those are my thoughts on the subject.   To anyone who is remotely
considering putting on a looping festival
in their locale, please consider me a source for moral support and/or
advice/information about what I"ve learned
to make these events have maximum impact.

To those of you who grumble and say "I don't care what he says, Looping is
not a musical form"  I say,
so be it................no need to compromise your values and
aesthetics..............but it is o.k. to let
us naive ones' have our fun, right?     Also,  I would invite you to come to
the after performance dinner
(or breakfast as in the case of Loopstock) and soak up a little of the
wonderful and exciting artistic
giddiness and vibes that happen there.   After Loopstock, I was brimming
with so many ideas for
new things to do that I'm afraid I wore my poor brothers ear off on the 3
hour trip home...........I was high for
weeks.........I'll bet others were as well (thanks so much Hans).

Do I reveal myself for the idealistic, communalist, aging hippy that I am?
DAMN STRAIGHT!!!!!

Loop on my friends and go get 'em Emeryville, Seattle, Chicago, New York,
Germany, Wales, London, Paris and anyother
place that is considering having a looping festival.

yours,    Rick Walker (loop.pool)




_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun  5 09:51:27 2002
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From: "Dennis Leas" <dennis@mdbs.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
References: <013201c20c59$6db200c0$cb61f93f@global>
Subject: Re: Why I produce LOOPING FESTIVALS:  is looping a valid musical artform?
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 08:43:15 -0500
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Rick, you are a constant inspiration!  May your enthusiasm be highly
contagious!

Thanks for the posting!

Dennis Leas
-------------------
dennis@mdbs.com


----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Walker/Loop.pooL" <GLOBAL@cruzio.com>
To: "Loopers Delight" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 1:22 AM
Subject: Why I produce LOOPING FESTIVALS: is looping a valid musical
artform?


> Dear Fellow Loopers (and fellow artists who don't consider themselves
> loopers but use looping tools in their music).
>
> I've been reading with increasing interest about potential Looping
Festivals
> in places as far flung as Emeryville, California,
> Seattle Washington and somewhere, mysteriously, in Germany.
>
> I've also noticed that the debate keeps coming up about whether LOOPING
> should be considered a separate musical artform
> or whether such festivals are "legitimate" or not.   Indeed, in the past,
I
> have spiritedly debated this with our list coordinator (but
> NOT leader) the esteemed and talented, Kim Flint.
>
> I can't answer that question for anybody.  Each person needs to have their
> own take on it and figure out where they stand,
> but I have produced 14 Looping specific Festivals in Northern California
in
> the last three years (with several festivals in the works for later this
> summer and next year)  and I thought it might be good to let everybody
know
> why I am working as hard as I am to promote the cause of LOOPING.   I am
> making NO MONEY doing any of it directly (although more on that subject
> later ;-).
>
> With regards to the debate about Looping as an artform or Looping as
merely
> a tool that individual artists use in their works:
>
> Music is music and obviously with the diversity of styles and types of
>  musics on this looping site alone (from   Tom Heasley's gorgeous Tuba
> mantras to Richard Zvonar's sample manipulations to Andre LaFosse's
> brilliant abstract guitar excursions to my wacky  'found sound' aesthetic
to
> Stan Card's surf rock grooves
> to Steve Lawson's wonderfully melodic and crazy electric bass mantras,
we
> can't consider
>  Looping to be a 'form' of music.
>
> Why then, for god's sake, do I produce Looping Festivals?
>
>  Here's the answer:
>
>  1)  I want to foster community.................something sadly lacking in
>  our culture...............
>
> Calling ourselves loopers creates a sense of  family and belonging.
> This feeling was very palpable, as I'm sure anyone who was there would
> agree, at
>  Hans LIndauers' LOOPSTOCK in San Luis Obispo.................enough so
that
> Larry O graciously wrote us up in Electronic Musician last month.
>
>  2)  Journalists and Radio DJs are sick of the status
quo................we
>  have not been in such a horrible static slump in mainstream
>  pop music in almost 30 years.     Calling attention to the new
technology,
>  Looping,  both educates and gives journalists and radio/televison dj/vjs
a
>  handle................it makes them feel like they are part of the
cutting
>  edge.............it gets great publicity:
>  I'm performed on air to a million people for a total of about 3 1/2 hours
> in
>  the last three years because of my efforts to promote
>  'looping'...................
>
>      You just can't get that kind of exposure any
>  other way as someone who is 'out of the box'  (the dominant, major label
>  paradigm that has strangled creativity for so long).
>
>  3)     I'm so invested, personally (and I think we should all be as
> independent
>  artists) in exiting that box (lawyers, contracts, distributors, labels
and
>  usury in general).   Being part of a new 'movement', such as it is, is
just
>  a way of identifying with something that doesn't have a strong
>  precedent..........It's a way of getting people's attention that
something
>  'new' is coming.   People are starved for new creativity.   Mark my
words,
>  the next 3-5 years will see a new musical explosion even in major label
pop
>  because people are so starved for something outside of the Major Label
> paradigm.
>
>  4) Just having something tangible (the label LOOPING) to identify with
has
>  gotten me offers to do musuem gigs, festivals, tours,
>  soundtracks, modern dance commissions and resulted in several artistic
> successes.
>
> Two cases in point:
>
> A)   The World's First Bass Looping Tour featuring bassists  Michael
> Manring, Steve Lawson, Max Valentino
> and myself (as the only bass playing non-bass player on the tour enabled
us
> to
> play a 30 minute set on KPIG, the worlds' largest internet radio
> station.......2 weeks later, the head of TALKBASS.com
> e-mailed me and told me that mentioning his website and the tour diary
that
> we posted every night after each cities' performance
> had caused 20% raise in the hits to his site and that his website traffic
> had stayed up consitently for at least the next two weeks.
> He was very appreciative and I felt very proud of all the artists who
> participate in that.
>
> B)   The success of this tour's performance so excited the director of the
> San Jose Museum of Art that they have subsequently
> hired me to curate a whole series of shows that showcase emerging trends
and
> technologies in both Music and Live Video
> Animation.    This has already resulted in the planning of the 1ST WOMAN's
> LOOPING FESTIVAL on Friday, October 4th,
> the FESTIVAL of LIVE COMPUTER ANIMATION, where top artists in this field
> will be 'jamming' visually with the loop based music
> of WALKERS (my duet project with my brother,  Bill Walker) and subsequent
> BASS LOOPING festivals and festivals of Experimental Guitar.
>
>
>  5) This new technology is allowing certain kinds of
>  music to be made that has never been possible before
>  and , certainly, never by one human being.................I can do really
>  'outside' timbral things and suddenly incorporate them into
>  a pop song in real time, if I want.................Some of the work being
> done
> with Repeaters, EDPs, MAX/Dsp  and !LIVE computer looping software
> is unlike any other music that I have heard from one or two performers.
>
> For the first time ever, I can sample or loop a found object right in
front
> of an
> audiences face and then 'play' that sample like a melodic instrument with
> my wind synthesizer (or any other midi controller:  guitarists,
synthesists,
> drummer/percussionists
> take note).    Heretofore,  audiences have not been able to
> connect strongly with how much the sampling world has effected modern
music.
>
> 6)  I learn like a m*therf*cker every time I do a festival with other
> loopers.  I get my creative juices
> stimulated incredibly.  I produce better 'art' when I perform at a
festival.
>
> That's why I produce Looping Festivals..................in what other way
> would I successfully be able to
> promote a concert with myself and , say, a genius like Tom
> Heasley..........what do we have in common:
> LOOPING!!!
>
>
> We are in the baby stages of learning this technology (or at least, I am)
> and in learning how
> to 'put it out' to the world in a viable way.
>
>  Vis a viz, making money with Looping, as far as I can see, it cannot be
> done much yet, but it is only a matter
> of time.
>
>  So what I shoot for is:
>
>  1) not losing too much money with a tour (I have a 12 country solo
looping
>  tour scheduled for Europe and the British Isles for
>  next summer (2003).  I
>
>  2) making as big a splash as possible by aggresively connecting to
>  indedpendent, pirate and college radio DJs and journalists
>
>  3)  Always roping in one to several other artists (usually loopers in my
>  particular case) to
>     a)  double or quadruple our draw and
>     b)  create a sense of community
>     c)  save expense money by scoring 'floors' to sleep on :-)
>     d)  meet and collaborate with new artists  (I'm an improviser, so I
love
>            to do two solo sets and then a set of imrpov at nights' end)
>
> Those are my thoughts on the subject.   To anyone who is remotely
> considering putting on a looping festival
> in their locale, please consider me a source for moral support and/or
> advice/information about what I"ve learned
> to make these events have maximum impact.
>
> To those of you who grumble and say "I don't care what he says, Looping is
> not a musical form"  I say,
> so be it................no need to compromise your values and
> aesthetics..............but it is o.k. to let
> us naive ones' have our fun, right?     Also,  I would invite you to come
to
> the after performance dinner
> (or breakfast as in the case of Loopstock) and soak up a little of the
> wonderful and exciting artistic
> giddiness and vibes that happen there.   After Loopstock, I was brimming
> with so many ideas for
> new things to do that I'm afraid I wore my poor brothers ear off on the 3
> hour trip home...........I was high for
> weeks.........I'll bet others were as well (thanks so much Hans).
>
> Do I reveal myself for the idealistic, communalist, aging hippy that I am?
> DAMN STRAIGHT!!!!!
>
> Loop on my friends and go get 'em Emeryville, Seattle, Chicago, New York,
> Germany, Wales, London, Paris and anyother
> place that is considering having a looping festival.
>
> yours,    Rick Walker (loop.pool)
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun  5 09:54:30 2002
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Hi,

I just had an email from another looper called Andy, who I've found out 
lives just 5 minutes away by metro in Paris!!! Are there any other 
French loopers? Or European loopers that might be willing to travel to 
Paris for a fest? If I can get enough people interested, I think finding 
a venue will not be that difficult.

--
Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
http://www.solostring.com
stuart@solostring.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun  5 10:33:18 2002
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From: "Emile Tobenfeld (a.k.a Dr. T)" <emile@foryourhead.com>
Subject: Video performance 6.8.02  Cambridge, MA
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Hi folks,

I'll be doing video improvisations at the following event, which 
features the outstanding Joe Manieri on reeds.

subconsciouscafe concert series @ BOSTON DANCE CO presents

a ZEITGEIST IN EXILE event

Saturday, 8 June

10pm - TOM HALTER'S POPULAR TRIO
featuring JOE MANERI

9pm - From NYC:
GOLD SPARKLE DUO
with STEVE DALACHINSKY

Location:
Boston Dance Co.
550 Mass Ave, 3rd fl.
Central Sq, Cambridge
(4 doors right of Dance Complex)

$10 or b/o
Doors @ 8pm
byo
617.876.2182

Personnel:

10pm
TOM HALTER POPULAR TRIO
Tom Halter - trumpet
Joe Maneri - piano, altosax, clarinet
Rick McGlaughlin - bass

9pm
 From NYC:
GOLD SPARKLE DUO
Charles Waters - alto & clarinet
Roger Ruzow - trumpet
Steve Dalachinsky - poetry

VIDEO by Dr.T

-- 

Visit "Before the Fall -- Images of the World Trade Center" at 
http://www.foryourhead.com

"There were so many things there that are not anywhere else in the 
world. There were millions of people, the strange reflective bars of 
the buildings and the shiny and shimmering towers that seemed like a 
fairy tale"   -- David-Michael Cook

		Emile Tobenfeld, Ph. D.
Video Producer			Image Processing Specialist
Video for your HEAD!			Boris FX
http://www.foryourhead.com		http://www.borisfx.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun  5 11:26:00 2002
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Subject: FS: Osciloscope (again, kinda)
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> > What is the make and model of an Oscilloscope that is considered *good quality* and at the same time somewhat economical. I dont need somthing that costs in the range of 10G's but would consider buying somthing to do what is quoted above.

>  It honestly doesn't matter.   For simple synth work an old tube-based scope is fine, so long as it works.  Dual trace is nice but not essential, and you don't need crazy bandwidth for audio signals.

Well in that case someone here might want this one...

I have an nice old tube Oscilloscope sitting in my office. It turns on and works fine although to be 100% honest I never did wild stuff with it outside of patching in the modulars to see the pretty waveforms and lights.

It's your standard Oscilloscope with XY planes and about a 4-6" round window with lime green display. There is a adjustable under light, various settings for range of the axis's (What's the plural of axis ?), etc etc. Even has a   Z plane.

I have $35 into it and that's what I'd want plus shipping or  pickup in Phila PA (That would be great). It looks cool as hell bubbling away in a studio but I recently upgraded to a newer one I got as a present so this is feeling lonely and
could use a better home. I'll turn it on before boxing it up and run it through it's paces and pack it extremely well. However due to it's age and all I'm selling it AS IS and the low low low price reflects that.

Pictures:
http://www.helpwantedproductions.com/eh/osc1.jpg
http://www.helpwantedproductions.com/eh/osc2.jpg

Sold to the first person to offer a cool trade or the $35 plus actual shipping (it's kinda heavy) and confirm via phone so send  a # to speed things up. I can take paypal from confirmed buyers if that helps.






From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun  5 12:05:41 2002
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Subject: how bout a southern loop fest
From: Darrell Havard <darrell367@earthlink.net>
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all this talk of looping festivals makes me wonder if we should have one in
the south.  of course I'm partially kidding.  Just trying to flush out any
loopers on the list that are from the south, other than myself and mr
fowler.  
It would be kinda cool though.
Loopin' southern style. we'll try not to get fried chicken grease all over
your gear.


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun  5 12:47:56 2002
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OK forgive the baiting title but there is a point to this. From all the
recent discussions on moving to somewhere else because the "loop
community" seems stronger, to Loopfests and such I felt I had to pipe
up.

The greatest music I have heard from loopers (from  the Looper's Delight
CDs to recommendations in posting from Phil Keaggy to David Zorn) seems
to me to be good *despite* looping, not because of it. Now don't get me
wrong, I am all for looping and looping tools, and repetition, and
messing with sound backwards, sideways, and again and again in-yo-face.
I think my personal track record (for those of you who know me LOL)
speaks for itself. BUT I personally feel that looping *itself* isn't the
point, even on a list of people called the Looper's Delight.  It's what
you DO with looping and boy there is some *great* stuff done with
looping out there.

This may be stating the obvious but the gist I was getting is some
people feel that they need to go somewhere where looping is encouraged
or more prevalent and things would be different for them.  I think that
is a red herring. Loop where you are and DO something YOU want to do
with it. Let's face it, looping and looping tools are pretty damn geeky
as a rule. We don't do this for the money or glamour, we do it because
our brains are wired differently (wrong? :)) Given that, you don't need
to move across the country to be "successful" in looping or even play a
gig with three or ten other loopers. As a matter of fact I've found more
success when I *didn't* play with other loopers but as part of a diverse
lineup of other acts. You reach more people that way and some of them
even kind of dig it. I personally think I played better too.

Phil Keaggy is consider an amazing *musician* not known to the general
public as a looper. Adrian Belew uses looping out the wazoo but he also
has a strong  pop sensibility and tremendous talent as a songwriter and
singer. Etc. People do fabulous things with all sorts of boxes. Buying
an EDP or Jamman or whatever or seeing a band with one doesn't mean
it'll be interesting or good or shite, it's just a box after all. Let's
not forget where the loop soul comes from.

Again, I am ALL for wanking and looping for the sake of it too. (Lord
knows I am!) That is fun and has it's place as much as anything else.
But let's keep it in perspective, we can (and DO ) do that anywhere. You
don't HAVE to  move or congregate  to play. If you mix it up or play
with other bands I guarantee you will not only get a bigger audience but
you'll find your loop chops improving as well.

And BTW Chicago is the GREATEST musical community this country has to
offer IMO. I'd move from SF to there instead of the other way around
LOL!


___________________________________________________________________
HELP WANTED PRODUCTIONS - Http://www.HelpWantedProductions.com
"Bringing you the best in Organic Electronic music since we started..."

Home of the Unusual Instrument and Recording Gallery with pictures and
info of Tube recorders, Omnichords, weird guitars, Casios, and more.



From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun  5 13:09:32 2002
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Subject: Swedish sound clips
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 19:07:17 +0200
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http://www.boysen.se/audio/No_Talking_Drum_I.mp3 1 MB
http://www.boysen.se/audio/No_Talking_Drum_II.mp3 3,2 MB
http://www.boysen.se/audio/No_Talking_Drum_III.mp3 1,3 MB

Hi All,

For those who might be interested in checking out the music of other loopers
I'm posting three short excerpts from a gig I did this Sunday. I brought my
little Casio DAT and recorded the 38 minutes improvisation.

Sound source: Fender Strat/POD/EDP/Repeater/LXP-5.

I was joined on stage by my Nigerian friend Jeff on talking drum but
unfortunately very little of his drumming got recorded (technical problems).
I tried to recreate his input by adding another drum track afterwards, using
Logic Audio. No editing were done to the guitar looping rig, I left it
exactly the way it sounded at the venue.

Best wishes

Per Boysen

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> OK forgive the baiting title but there is a point to this. From all the
> recent discussions on moving to somewhere else because the "loop
> community" seems stronger, to Loopfests and such I felt I had to pipe
> up.
>  ....

Ok, I've got to pipe up here.  I view a looper as a tool for making music.
I also view a guitar as a tool for making music.  I also view a set of tabla
drums as a tool for making music.  Now if I want to learn to play the tabla,
I mean really learn to play the tabla;  would you tell me that its useless
to move to India?  That I can learn everything I need to know to make music
by staying right where I am and playing tabla at clubs along with guitar
players, and conga drummers????

Humans are by nature very creative beings.  However each person has there
own way of looking at things, and interaction with others - especially other
people who have more experience - can really shape a person's outlook.  This
is why I have really valued the two looping festivals, and un-countable
private loop jams that I have had the pleasure taking part in.
jon


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Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 10:40:14 -0700
From: Miko Biffle <biffoz@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Why I produce LOOPING FESTIVALS:  is looping a valid musical
 artform?
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Hey Rick... Since you've posted this thread, I thought I might comment on
community.

You recently asked me to take part in both the San Jose Museum looping
demonstrations as well as a short set at the Cayuga Vault. In both instances
you said you'd get back to me with the specifics of both gigs. Recently you
alluded to my volume level as a possible concern and said the last *two*
times I was incredibly loud.

I WAS incredibly loud at the Bulkhead Gallery and expected that you would
manage the front of house level as you did for the other performers. Leaving
it at that level and attributing it to me seems wrong. I DID turn down where
I could at my mixer and continued playing. I had graciously offered my
system as monitors for the rest of the performers and had to re-stage the
gain structure to allow for nearly everyone's dismal -3 or less db level...
when it came to my set, I fired up at my usual +3-+5 db and guess what?
Heavy volume...

If you're talking about my processing at the Voice and Electronics Fest... I
DID use some grating textures, some very dry, which does *sound* loud. I
also remember actively listening and watching you and responding to any of
your cues immediately. So I'm not sure if this was the case, but if this
wasn't the gig, what were you referring to?

Did the Cayuga benefit happen? If so, I'm sorry I wasn't informed and
brought up to date on my playing times etc. That's if I was still invited...
I'm getting the feeling I was excluded due to some perception problems and
wonder if there's anything I can actually do to alter that perception. If
not, I would be sad to somehow find myself outside the accepted roster of
performers you choose to work with.

Yours truly,
-Miko

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Walker/Loop.pooL" <GLOBAL@cruzio.com>
To: "Loopers Delight" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 11:22 PM
Subject: Why I produce LOOPING FESTIVALS: is looping a valid musical
artform?

> 1)  I want to foster community.... something sadly lacking in >  our
culture....

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun  5 13:41:05 2002
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> 
> Ok, I've got to pipe up here.  I view a looper as a tool for making music.
> I also view a guitar as a tool for making music.  I also view a set of tabla
> drums as a tool for making music.  Now if I want to learn to play the tabla,
> I mean really learn to play the tabla;  would you tell me that its useless
> to move to India?  That I can learn everything I need to know to make music
> by staying right where I am and playing tabla at clubs along with guitar
> players, and conga drummers????

Nope, I'd say go for it if that's what you wanted to do. But I think
learning from classical masters in a centuries old world culture is *very*
different than going to SF or Charlotte or Charleston for "looping". Then
again, maybe not, you make a good point certainly. 

> people who have more experience - can really shape a person's outlook.  This
> is why I have really valued the two looping festivals, and un-countable
> private loop jams that I have had the pleasure taking part in.

No arguement here. I perfectly agree that you can learn and enjoy and of
course each person gets different things. I don't ewant to discourage
loopfests or the like, I just wanted to state that IMO they should be in
*addition* to other stuff not as a substitute or be all end all. Tehn
again, that *is* my opinion and I have no porblem with anyone doing what
they enjoy with music. Hell, I hope to loop with a bunch of you again some
time too :)



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Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 10:53:54 -0700
From: Miko Biffle <biffoz@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Why I produce LOOPING FESTIVALS:  is looping a valid musical
 artform?
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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Ouch... I'm such a bozo... this last missive was obviously meant to be a
private reply to Rick. Apologies to all, and especially Rick. I HATE my
mailer...

-Miko

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Subject: Re: 1st EMERYVILLE LOOPING FESTIVAL?
From: Mark Hamburg <mark_hamburg@baymoon.com>
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Not that anyone has actually volunteered to arrange this thing, but I'd
probably be up for playing.

Mark

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Subject: Re: Looping is overrated :)
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"Let's face it, looping and looping tools are pretty damn geeky
as a rule. We don't do this for the money or glamour..."

Now you tell me! ;-)  
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Legion" <legion@helpwantedproductions.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 4:47 PM
Subject: Looping is overrated :)


> OK forgive the baiting title but there is a point to this. From all the
> recent discussions on moving to somewhere else because the "loop
> community" seems stronger, to Loopfests and such I felt I had to pipe
> up.
> 
> The greatest music I have heard from loopers (from  the Looper's Delight
> CDs to recommendations in posting from Phil Keaggy to David Zorn) seems
> to me to be good *despite* looping, not because of it. Now don't get me
> wrong, I am all for looping and looping tools, and repetition, and
> messing with sound backwards, sideways, and again and again in-yo-face.
> I think my personal track record (for those of you who know me LOL)
> speaks for itself. BUT I personally feel that looping *itself* isn't the
> point, even on a list of people called the Looper's Delight.  It's what
> you DO with looping and boy there is some *great* stuff done with
> looping out there.
> 
> This may be stating the obvious but the gist I was getting is some
> people feel that they need to go somewhere where looping is encouraged
> or more prevalent and things would be different for them.  I think that
> is a red herring. Loop where you are and DO something YOU want to do
> with it. Let's face it, looping and looping tools are pretty damn geeky
> as a rule. We don't do this for the money or glamour, we do it because
> our brains are wired differently (wrong? :)) Given that, you don't need
> to move across the country to be "successful" in looping or even play a
> gig with three or ten other loopers. As a matter of fact I've found more
> success when I *didn't* play with other loopers but as part of a diverse
> lineup of other acts. You reach more people that way and some of them
> even kind of dig it. I personally think I played better too.
> 
> Phil Keaggy is consider an amazing *musician* not known to the general
> public as a looper. Adrian Belew uses looping out the wazoo but he also
> has a strong  pop sensibility and tremendous talent as a songwriter and
> singer. Etc. People do fabulous things with all sorts of boxes. Buying
> an EDP or Jamman or whatever or seeing a band with one doesn't mean
> it'll be interesting or good or shite, it's just a box after all. Let's
> not forget where the loop soul comes from.
> 
> Again, I am ALL for wanking and looping for the sake of it too. (Lord
> knows I am!) That is fun and has it's place as much as anything else.
> But let's keep it in perspective, we can (and DO ) do that anywhere. You
> don't HAVE to  move or congregate  to play. If you mix it up or play
> with other bands I guarantee you will not only get a bigger audience but
> you'll find your loop chops improving as well.
> 
> And BTW Chicago is the GREATEST musical community this country has to
> offer IMO. I'd move from SF to there instead of the other way around
> LOL!
> 
> 
> ___________________________________________________________________
> HELP WANTED PRODUCTIONS - Http://www.HelpWantedProductions.com
> "Bringing you the best in Organic Electronic music since we started..."
> 
> Home of the Unusual Instrument and Recording Gallery with pictures and
> info of Tube recorders, Omnichords, weird guitars, Casios, and more.
> 
> 
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun  5 14:51:20 2002
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Subject: Re: Looping is overrated :)
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ATLANTA GEORGIA
hello all,

below is some info concerning a performance we are putting 
on this friday here in atlanta ga. live looping and 
spontaneous composition is on the agenda. we will be 
utilizing the sounds of the dancers (captured via contact 
mics) in the performance as the source for our piece. i 
hope you can make it out.
regards,
c

THE ELECTRIC ARTS ALLIANCE OF ATLANTA PRESENTS

An InterMedia Performance of Dance and Sound
For the Closing Reception of Fresh
At NoNo, FRIDAY, JUNE 7, 2002

The Electric Arts Alliance of Atlanta (EAAA) is proud to 
present an
intermedia performance of dance, video and sound at NoNo 
on Friday, June
7, 2002 as part of the closing reception festivities for 
the Fresh
multi-media art exhibition curated by Fifth Class. The 
performers
include dancer/choreographers Blake Beckham and Camille 
Dieterle and sound artists Chris White and Adam Overton.
This performance is a study in the intersections and 
interplay of
movement, imagery and sound and presents an inspired, 
real-time dialogue
between the varied mediums.

The closing reception for Fresh will be held at NoNo from 
8 pm until 2
am and will feature a variety of visual art and musical 
and theatrical
performances. NoNo is located in Atlanta at 595 North 
Avenue just past
Northside Drive on the right-hand side.

For more info please contact info@fifthclass.com.

Donations are requested for admission.

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Subject: THE ELECTRIC ARTS ALLIANCE OF ATLANTA PRESENTS
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ATLANTA GEORGIA
hello all,

below is some info concerning a performance we are putting 
on this friday here in atlanta ga. live looping and 
spontaneous composition is on the agenda. we will be 
utilizing the sounds of the dancers (captured via contact 
mics) in the performance as the source for our piece. i 
hope you can make it out.
regards,
c

THE ELECTRIC ARTS ALLIANCE OF ATLANTA PRESENTS

An InterMedia Performance of Dance and Sound
For the Closing Reception of Fresh
At NoNo, FRIDAY, JUNE 7, 2002

The Electric Arts Alliance of Atlanta (EAAA) is proud to 
present an
intermedia performance of dance, video and sound at NoNo 
on Friday, June
7, 2002 as part of the closing reception festivities for 
the Fresh
multi-media art exhibition curated by Fifth Class. The 
performers
include dancer/choreographers Blake Beckham and Camille 
Dieterle and sound artists Chris White and Adam Overton.
This performance is a study in the intersections and 
interplay of
movement, imagery and sound and presents an inspired, 
real-time dialogue
between the varied mediums.

The closing reception for Fresh will be held at NoNo from 
8 pm until 2
am and will feature a variety of visual art and musical 
and theatrical
performances. NoNo is located in Atlanta at 595 North 
Avenue just past
Northside Drive on the right-hand side.

For more info please contact info@fifthclass.com.

Donations are requested for admission.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun  5 15:26:49 2002
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On Thursday, June 6, 2002, at 03:48 PM, savior-onasis wrote:

> "Let's face it, looping and looping tools are pretty damn geeky
> as a rule. We don't do this for the money or glamour..."

As I have not achieved to obtain either, I can wholeheartedly agree with 
you :).

Looping to me is slowly turning into my life. Without looping, my music 
as I envisage it would simply not exist. From the very first day I 
purchased my DL4, I was hooked - to be able to play my music, without 
having egotistical guitarists, alchoholic bass players and other 
nefarious entities from the musical world to contend with was just sheer 
heaven!!!

I have not actually played with anyone else,  except a few rare jams or 
sitting in at concerts for about 2 years.... I love it :)

Live looping is geeky. It is also very very personal, and is probably 
that only way that musicians can really tap into their musical 
subconcious. It is the key to improvising, maybe even a way to find the 
key to music itself... I dont know.

I'm rambling. I'll shut up now :) I had a point to say, but I forgot 
what it was.

--
Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
http://www.solostring.com
stuart@solostring.com

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Subject: Re: THE ELECTRIC ARTS ALLIANCE OF ATLANTA PRESENTS
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At 2:51 PM -0400 6/5/02, Christopher White wrote:

>THE ELECTRIC ARTS ALLIANCE OF ATLANTA PRESENTS
>
>An InterMedia Performance of Dance and Sound
>For the Closing Reception of Fresh
>At NoNo, FRIDAY, JUNE 7, 2002

I had the pleasure of participating an EAAA program two weeks ago: 
great turnout, great people!

All the best for this week's program and all to come. "Break a circuit!"
-- 

______________________________________________________________
Richard Zvonar, PhD
(818) 788-2202
http://www.zvonar.com
http://RZCybernetics.com
http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun  5 16:01:48 2002
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Yes Richard I have seen your name on this list for a long 
time and was sad that I missed your show with dan at 
eyedrum...maybe next time.....
regards
c

On Wed, 05 Jun 2002 12:39:03 -0700
  Richard Zvonar <zvonar@zvonar.com> wrote:
>At 2:51 PM -0400 6/5/02, Christopher White wrote:
>
>>THE ELECTRIC ARTS ALLIANCE OF ATLANTA PRESENTS
>>
>>An InterMedia Performance of Dance and Sound
>>For the Closing Reception of Fresh
>>At NoNo, FRIDAY, JUNE 7, 2002
>
>I had the pleasure of participating an EAAA program two 
>weeks ago: great turnout, great people!
>
>All the best for this week's program and all to come. 
>"Break a circuit!"
>-- 
>
>______________________________________________________________
>Richard Zvonar, PhD
>(818) 788-2202
>http://www.zvonar.com
>http://RZCybernetics.com
>http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
>http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz
>

<TEXTAREA NAME="Signature" ROWS="4" COLS="60">

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** at the risk of sounding like a moron, i'd also suggest l.a. 

(i think l.a. is often overlooked when talking about creative music.)

yeah, i know, l.a. gets the rap of having no culture, blah, blah, blah. 


from what i can tell, sf has had its own problems in terms of venues going
down the tubes. 

i have had friends who moved up to sf tell me that it is pretty clique-ish
and hard to get with people. don't know if this is true. i think l.a. can be
hard, but most of the people i know seem to be open to other/new folks.
(read this is as it's not a competitive as nyc.)

i've noticed a fair amount of younger folks doing this stuff around here
(it's funny playing in bands that are asking you about gigs you had around
the time they were born . . . ); younger people coming into scene means more
ferment and new energy - - all to the good. a lot of this could be because
of the cal arts scene . . . hello andre! lots of seriously good
players/thinkers coming out o' there. 

there seem to be numerous small series and a few clubs that have interesting
things going on here (and i'm not including the knit in this). i don't think
that l.a. can compete with tonic/roulette, but i think it may be comparable
or better than sf. 

that it is more expensive to live in sf is also a factor (tho' l.a. is not
cheap by a long shot). 

you are probably not going to make a major financial stake playing here - -
if you're gonna try to make living at playing non-mainstream, nyc might be
the only place, but look again at the comments about the competitive
atmosphere. (though it's gonna be tough there because of rents? is it true
rents have gone down since september?)

i think the person who said that chicago has a good scene has a good point
as well. it has been getting a fair amount of press from the genre mags that
seem to follow the non-mainstream stuff (at least the ones that i've read). 

i've heard very good things about and coming out of vancouver, b.c. support
scene, good players, fair number of venues, nice town.

seattle seems interesting. 

how about amsterdam (if you're young and unencumbered)? from what i can
tell, great music scene, nice town, can travel to other european burgs to
play.

my guesses about transport: l.a., you're gonna need to have a car; nyc, you
may not, but if you do, good luck with parking; sf, you may not, but that
means you're in the city (?), and that means higher rents - - or you live
outside and will probably need one. chicago, my guess is that it would be
easier with a car when hauling gear . . . hmmm, eric or someone?

there are great players in all of these places, each with the different
flavor that comes from the town and the people making up the scene. 

also, the reality is that, no matter where you go, the non-mainstream music
scene is *never* gonna get the props it *should* (i think that the advantage
of sf, nyc and chicago might be that the press is a *little* more receptive
to this stuff than is the l.a. press - - though we have our champions of the
music here as well.)

stig


personally, i'm moving because i'm tired of being bored (and no,
creating/indulging in the current "scene" isn't an option).  as far as i'm
concerned, sf and new york appear to be the cultural centers (as far as
variety and availability go) and i don't think i'd get along well with nyc.

-jim


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<TITLE>RE: Looper Moving!</TITLE>
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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>** at the risk of sounding like a moron, i'd also =
suggest l.a. </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>(i think l.a. is often overlooked when talking about =
creative music.)</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>yeah, i know, l.a. gets the rap of having no culture, =
blah, blah, blah. </FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>from what i can tell, sf has had its own problems in =
terms of venues going down the tubes. </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>i have had friends who moved up to sf tell me that it =
is pretty clique-ish and hard to get with people. don't know if this is =
true. i think l.a. can be hard, but most of the people i know seem to =
be open to other/new folks. (read this is as it's not a competitive as =
nyc.)</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>i've noticed a fair amount of younger folks doing =
this stuff around here (it's funny playing in bands that are asking you =
about gigs you had around the time they were born . . . ); younger =
people coming into scene means more ferment and new energy - - all to =
the good. a lot of this could be because of the cal arts scene . . . =
hello andre! lots of seriously good players/thinkers coming out o' =
there. </FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>there seem to be numerous small series and a few =
clubs that have interesting things going on here (and i'm not including =
the knit in this). i don't think that l.a. can compete with =
tonic/roulette, but i think it may be comparable or better than sf. =
</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>that it is more expensive to live in sf is also a =
factor (tho' l.a. is not cheap by a long shot). </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>you are probably not going to make a major financial =
stake playing here - - if you're gonna try to make living at playing =
non-mainstream, nyc might be the only place, but look again at the =
comments about the competitive atmosphere. (though it's gonna be tough =
there because of rents? is it true rents have gone down since =
september?)</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>i think the person who said that chicago has a good =
scene has a good point as well. it has been getting a fair amount of =
press from the genre mags that seem to follow the non-mainstream stuff =
(at least the ones that i've read). </FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>i've heard very good things about and coming out of =
vancouver, b.c. support scene, good players, fair number of venues, =
nice town.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>seattle seems interesting. </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>how about amsterdam (if you're young and =
unencumbered)? from what i can tell, great music scene, nice town, can =
travel to other european burgs to play.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>my guesses about transport: l.a., you're gonna need =
to have a car; nyc, you may not, but if you do, good luck with parking; =
sf, you may not, but that means you're in the city (?), and that means =
higher rents - - or you live outside and will probably need one. =
chicago, my guess is that it would be easier with a car when hauling =
gear . . . hmmm, eric or someone?</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>there are great players in all of these places, each =
with the different flavor that comes from the town and the people =
making up the scene. </FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>also, the reality is that, no matter where you go, =
the non-mainstream music scene is *never* gonna get the props it =
*should* (i think that the advantage of sf, nyc and chicago might be =
that the press is a *little* more receptive to this stuff than is the =
l.a. press - - though we have our champions of the music here as =
well.)</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>stig</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>personally, i'm moving because i'm tired of being =
bored (and no,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>creating/indulging in the current &quot;scene&quot; =
isn't an option).&nbsp; as far as i'm</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>concerned, sf and new york appear to be the cultural =
centers (as far as</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>variety and availability go) and i don't think i'd =
get along well with nyc.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-jim</FONT>
</P>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun  5 16:28:08 2002
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(....HE'LL know the answer!)

are the input jacks on the back of my PCM41's T-S or T-R-S? i never got the 
manual with 'em...

you can reply off list of course!

anti:clockwise


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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 13:27:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Pedro Felix <pfelix28@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Looping is overrated :)
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oh yeah. agreed and then some. looping will not help
most sound better. some folks will use gear as an
extension. that's where i get off. the rest is kinda
horse-shite to me. but i am a little tired.

best regards, Pedro Felix - NYC 2002

ai, still doing the weekly gig at Chama, Thursday's
9/30pm-??am, 332 East 4th Street, NYC, NY.
 
--- Legion <legion@HelpWantedProductions.com> wrote:
> OK forgive the baiting title but there is a point to
> this. From all the
> recent discussions on moving to somewhere else
> because the "loop
> community" seems stronger, to Loopfests and such I
> felt I had to pipe
> up.
> 
> The greatest music I have heard from loopers (from 
> the Looper's Delight
> CDs to recommendations in posting from Phil Keaggy
> to David Zorn) seems
> to me to be good *despite* looping, not because of
> it. Now don't get me
> wrong, I am all for looping and looping tools, and
> repetition, and
> messing with sound backwards, sideways, and again
> and again in-yo-face.
> I think my personal track record (for those of you
> who know me LOL)
> speaks for itself. BUT I personally feel that
> looping *itself* isn't the
> point, even on a list of people called the Looper's
> Delight.  It's what
> you DO with looping and boy there is some *great*
> stuff done with
> looping out there.
> 
> This may be stating the obvious but the gist I was
> getting is some
> people feel that they need to go somewhere where
> looping is encouraged
> or more prevalent and things would be different for
> them.  I think that
> is a red herring. Loop where you are and DO
> something YOU want to do
> with it. Let's face it, looping and looping tools
> are pretty damn geeky
> as a rule. We don't do this for the money or
> glamour, we do it because
> our brains are wired differently (wrong? :)) Given
> that, you don't need
> to move across the country to be "successful" in
> looping or even play a
> gig with three or ten other loopers. As a matter of
> fact I've found more
> success when I *didn't* play with other loopers but
> as part of a diverse
> lineup of other acts. You reach more people that way
> and some of them
> even kind of dig it. I personally think I played
> better too.
> 
> Phil Keaggy is consider an amazing *musician* not
> known to the general
> public as a looper. Adrian Belew uses looping out
> the wazoo but he also
> has a strong  pop sensibility and tremendous talent
> as a songwriter and
> singer. Etc. People do fabulous things with all
> sorts of boxes. Buying
> an EDP or Jamman or whatever or seeing a band with
> one doesn't mean
> it'll be interesting or good or shite, it's just a
> box after all. Let's
> not forget where the loop soul comes from.
> 
> Again, I am ALL for wanking and looping for the sake
> of it too. (Lord
> knows I am!) That is fun and has it's place as much
> as anything else.
> But let's keep it in perspective, we can (and DO )
> do that anywhere. You
> don't HAVE to  move or congregate  to play. If you
> mix it up or play
> with other bands I guarantee you will not only get a
> bigger audience but
> you'll find your loop chops improving as well.
> 
> And BTW Chicago is the GREATEST musical community
> this country has to
> offer IMO. I'd move from SF to there instead of the
> other way around
> LOL!
> 
> 
>
___________________________________________________________________
> HELP WANTED PRODUCTIONS -
> Http://www.HelpWantedProductions.com
> "Bringing you the best in Organic Electronic music
> since we started..."
> 
> Home of the Unusual Instrument and Recording Gallery
> with pictures and
> info of Tube recorders, Omnichords, weird guitars,
> Casios, and more.
> 
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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At 4:22 PM -0400 6/5/02, anti:clockwise wrote:
>are the input jacks on the back of my PCM41's T-S or T-R-S? i never 
>got the manual with 'em...

I don't have that info for the PCM 41, but the PCM 42 has a TRS input 
and TS outputs.
-- 

______________________________________________________________
Richard Zvonar, PhD
(818) 788-2202
http://www.zvonar.com
http://RZCybernetics.com
http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun  5 17:28:26 2002
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I have caught a fair amount of (friendly) flak from local looping musicians 
for my views on the overratedness of "looping" as a genre.

To me, loops are tools. A loop is something you do to a sound. They fall 
into the same section in my musical mind as echoes and reverb - even though 
they're a heck of a lot more useful. Whenever I hear "the looping scene" 
mentioned, I start thinking of what the local reverb scene and 
pitch-shifting scene must be like.

Would all forms of music using gratuitous repetition of recorded sounds be 
"looping" music? Does that include every single electronic dance artist?

I agree with your statement (Legion), the presence of loops does not 
inherently make something good. In fact, in many cases, overdependence on 
loops can make music worse than it would be otherwise. After all, we're 
talking about repetition here, and for musicians who aren't careful to keep 
a good amount of variation going the output gets to be about as interesting 
as the 67th verse of "99 Bottles of Beer on the Wall".

Lastly, I think a lot of music critics, venue bookers, and music fans feel 
that, now that techno (based on repetition) has been the most popular genre 
of music for the last 10 years, hailing a genre of music on the basis of 
repetition is more than a bit out of touch. While I understand where us guys 
and gals are coming from (and I actually prefer loops in music over the 
absence of them), I also understand that the use of the phrase "looping 
music" to describe your genre to somebody you're trying to impress (like a 
concert promoter) may be shooting yourself in the foot.

When I describe my music, I often use the phrase "real-time sampling". For 
those to whom it applies, I think the phase "tape-looped music" may also be 
interesting. And for you guys who do the 4/4 electronic dance music, you 
have a list of hundreds of different sub-genre names at your disposal. ... 
Just don't use "experimental". That's ours. :-)

Matt

_________________________________________________________________
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Hey there Rick,

Thanks so much for all your insightful commentary here (as well as in
our off-list discussions).  Let me try and address some of your
thoughts, and let me also say that I absolutely DON'T feel like I have
definitive answers to any of this stuff.  I myself am constantly
re-evaluating and clarifying my own relationship with looping, on an
almost day-by-day basis.

I would also HATE for you to feel as if your efforts aren't being
appreciated or having an impact on people like myself, so I'll address
that as well.

> I've also noticed that the debate keeps coming up about whether LOOPING
> should be considered a separate musical artform

I think it's important here to draw a distinction between the term "art
form" and "musical style."  Is looping an art form?  Absolutely, just
like drumming, guitar playing, or any other musical craft is an art
form.  But to me, that's a completely different issue than a "musical
style."  

You could put Bill Bruford, Bill Stewart, Terry Bozzio, and Virgil
Donati in a room, and they'd probably have a lot to discuss and compare
notes on.  There are common threads between what they do with their
craft, and many commonalities amongst the finer point of their approach
to the art form of drumming.  But would any of them say "I play drum
music" in answer to the question of what "kind" of music they play?

> or whether such festivals are "legitimate" or not.  

Well, I certainly hope I've never implied that a looping festival isn't
"legitimate," because that absolutely is NOT the case in my mind.  If I
have given that impression, I profusely apologize, but I can't imagine
that I have.  (I sure HOPE not!)

I thoroughly enjoyed Loopstock, as well as the LA Loop Fest that
happened last year (strictly at YOUR instigation, I might add!)  As I've
told you, Rick, seeing the activity you've played a key role in
cultivating was one of the things that got me back into the swing of
performing again.  

Between the beginning of 2000 and the middle of 2001, there would be
periods of literally months at a time when I wouldn't even turn my EDP
on.  Seeing that there were actually people taking this approach out
into the world in a serious way was a profound wake-up call for me.  And
as I've told you before, the stuff I've done with the EDP over the last
year WOULD NOT have happened if it wasn't for your work, and its
effects, re-kindling an interest in the technology in my mind.

So.  With all of that said, why do I go off at such length on the whole
"is looping a form of music or not" tangent?  Here are some reasons.

I personally feel that there are an AWFUL lot of preconceptions about
how real-time loop-based music is SUPPOSED to sound in the minds of the
musicians who actually use the tools.  This happens both stylistically
and technically, and I think it's potentially very problematic.

In terms of style, there are still an awful lot of lingering stereotypes
about looping=avante-garde, or looping=ambient, or looping=prog-rock
Frippertronics.  That doesn't have to be the case at all, and anyone
who's been to a single looping festival knows that.    

But the fact that we're here, five and a half years after the formation
of this list, and just in the last two days have gotten posts saying
"looping is fundamentally geeky," or apologizing for inquiries into
loopers like Jon Brion who don't happen to be avante-garde, speaks
VOLUMES about the problems the craft has with its self-image within its
OWN community.

Things like looping festivals can and do help to counter-act that
tendency, by showcasing the diversity of styles that make use of this
technique.  But when assumptions start being made about looping across
the board, then I think it's time to step back and reconsider the way
we're thinking about this stuff.  

Even your own comment that "making money with looping cannot be done
much yet" is problematic to me, because it suggests that using a looping
tool in one's music is somehow intrinsically tied to fringe music making.

Hip-hop is loop music.  Trance is loop music.  House is loop music. 
Fela Kuti's Afrobeat is loop music.  Alanis Morrisette singing over
breakbeats is loop music.  "Wild Thing" is loop music.  The scads of
third-rate major label bands whose parts are played once and then
cut-and-pasted into Pro Tools is loop music.  

Looping ISN'T fundamentally geeky, or navel-gazing, or inward-looking,
or abstract, or un-commercial, any more so than an electric guitar or
any other instrument is.  It's all what's done with it... and in the
case of looping in particular, what's played INTO it.

Do you know what I mean?

The dominant point of reference for how looping tends to be approached
as an instrumental craft, even today, is frequently (though certainly
not always) rooted in the tape-loop or long-delay-line paradigms.  But
with the tools that are available today, it doesn't have to be that way.
 It doesn't have to be hypnotic, it doesn't have to be inward-looking,
it doesn't have to be droney, and it doesn't even have to be repetitive.

And once again, building a sense of community and commonality is a
wonderful way of exploring these different approaches.  I just get antsy
when people start talking about looping as if the tools and the craft
itself have built-in, fundamental limitations in terms of the type of
audience it can reach, the sort of money it can earn, the way people
respond to it, or any other sort of assumption.  

It strikes me as thinking that's being driven by preconceptions, which I
think is hugely problematic for any art form that wants to develop.  

Anyway, Rick, I hope none of this comes across as being ungrateful
towards what you've done, because nothing could be further from the
truth.  You've done utterly amazing things in bringing people together
and helping to turn both players and listeners on to the notion of this
craft as a viable performance-based art form.  And I very much look
forward to talking, and playing, with you in the near future.

Very best wishes,

--Andre LaFosse
http://www.altruistmusic.com

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I suppose pens and pencils are 'geeky' to some too.  But some folks sure
make great art with those tools as well!  Go figure!

----- Original Message -----
From: "savior-onasis" <savior-onasis@kc.rr.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 14:48 PM
Subject: Re: Looping is overrated :)


> "Let's face it, looping and looping tools are pretty damn geeky
> as a rule. We don't do this for the money or glamour..."
>
> Now you tell me! ;-)
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Legion" <legion@helpwantedproductions.com>
> To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 4:47 PM
> Subject: Looping is overrated :)
>
>
> > OK forgive the baiting title but there is a point to this. From all the
> > recent discussions on moving to somewhere else because the "loop
> > community" seems stronger, to Loopfests and such I felt I had to pipe
> > up.
> >
> > The greatest music I have heard from loopers (from  the Looper's Delight
> > CDs to recommendations in posting from Phil Keaggy to David Zorn) seems
> > to me to be good *despite* looping, not because of it. Now don't get me
> > wrong, I am all for looping and looping tools, and repetition, and
> > messing with sound backwards, sideways, and again and again in-yo-face.
> > I think my personal track record (for those of you who know me LOL)
> > speaks for itself. BUT I personally feel that looping *itself* isn't the
> > point, even on a list of people called the Looper's Delight.  It's what
> > you DO with looping and boy there is some *great* stuff done with
> > looping out there.
> >
> > This may be stating the obvious but the gist I was getting is some
> > people feel that they need to go somewhere where looping is encouraged
> > or more prevalent and things would be different for them.  I think that
> > is a red herring. Loop where you are and DO something YOU want to do
> > with it. Let's face it, looping and looping tools are pretty damn geeky
> > as a rule. We don't do this for the money or glamour, we do it because
> > our brains are wired differently (wrong? :)) Given that, you don't need
> > to move across the country to be "successful" in looping or even play a
> > gig with three or ten other loopers. As a matter of fact I've found more
> > success when I *didn't* play with other loopers but as part of a diverse
> > lineup of other acts. You reach more people that way and some of them
> > even kind of dig it. I personally think I played better too.
> >
> > Phil Keaggy is consider an amazing *musician* not known to the general
> > public as a looper. Adrian Belew uses looping out the wazoo but he also
> > has a strong  pop sensibility and tremendous talent as a songwriter and
> > singer. Etc. People do fabulous things with all sorts of boxes. Buying
> > an EDP or Jamman or whatever or seeing a band with one doesn't mean
> > it'll be interesting or good or shite, it's just a box after all. Let's
> > not forget where the loop soul comes from.
> >
> > Again, I am ALL for wanking and looping for the sake of it too. (Lord
> > knows I am!) That is fun and has it's place as much as anything else.
> > But let's keep it in perspective, we can (and DO ) do that anywhere. You
> > don't HAVE to  move or congregate  to play. If you mix it up or play
> > with other bands I guarantee you will not only get a bigger audience but
> > you'll find your loop chops improving as well.
> >
> > And BTW Chicago is the GREATEST musical community this country has to
> > offer IMO. I'd move from SF to there instead of the other way around
> > LOL!
> >
> >
> > ___________________________________________________________________
> > HELP WANTED PRODUCTIONS - Http://www.HelpWantedProductions.com
> > "Bringing you the best in Organic Electronic music since we started..."
> >
> > Home of the Unusual Instrument and Recording Gallery with pictures and
> > info of Tube recorders, Omnichords, weird guitars, Casios, and more.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun  5 17:57:48 2002
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Subject: looping and how it is overrated :-)
From: Stuart Wyatt <stuart@solostring.com>
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(I'm having probs with my mail client - appoligies if this comes through 
twice to the list - but I think the old one got lost, and I really want 
to get my point across)

> To me, loops are tools. A loop is something you do to a sound. They 
> fall into the same section in my musical mind as echoes and reverb

:) Thats fair enough... that is how you use loops. However, for me, the 
whole of my performance is based around the looping technology. Without 
the live looping, my project  and my music would not exist.

You say that loops fall into the same section as reverb and echoes. 
Again, its how you use them that determines how rated or overrated you 
deem them to be. I have actually performed an hour concert using just a 
single repetition tap-tempo delay - playing Vivaldi and Bach type duets 
with myself.

So, I agree wholeheartedly with your views, as they are your views, from 
your viewpoint. However, I am glad to see that you accept other people's 
views who might be looking in completely the opposite direction :)

--
Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
http://www.solostring.com
stuart@solostring.com

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> To me, loops are tools. A loop is something you do to a sound. They 
> fall into the same section in my musical mind as echoes and reverb

:) Thats fair enough... that is how you use loops. However, for me, the 
whole of my performance is based around the looping technology. Without 
the live looping, my project  and my music would not exist.

You say that loops fall into the same section as reverb and echoes. 
Again, its how you use them that determines how rated or overrated you 
deem them to be. I have actually performed an hour concert using just a 
single repetition tap-tempo delay - playing Vivaldi and Bach type duets 
with myself.

So, I agree wholeheartedly with your views, as they are your views, from 
your viewpoint. However, I am glad to see that you accept other people's 
views who might be looking in completely the opposite direction :)

--
Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
http://www.solostring.com
stuart@solostring.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun  5 18:06:05 2002
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Subject: Re: Why I produce LOOPING FESTIVALS:  is looping a valid musical 
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Hi again Rick (and others),

A quick, semi-related post-script:

> Animation.    This has already resulted in the planning of the 1ST WOMAN's
> LOOPING FESTIVAL on Friday, October 4th,

If it's at all possible, you MUST try and get Amy Neuberg in on this:

http://www.isproductions.com/amy/

As Kim mentioned some time back, she staged an impromptu demonstration
of her music for us the day after the LoopIV release party, and it was
one of the single greatest loop-based performances I've ever seen. 
Utterly fantastic and engaging.  Even if you can't get her for the
October show, you simply must get in touch with her.  :)

--Andre

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Subject: RE: Why I produce LOOPING FESTIVALS:  is looping a valid musical 
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I personally feel that there are an AWFUL lot of preconceptions about
how real-time loop-based music is SUPPOSED to sound in the minds of the
musicians who actually use the tools.  This happens both stylistically
and technically, and I think it's potentially very problematic.

In terms of style, there are still an awful lot of lingering stereotypes
about looping=avante-garde, or looping=ambient, or looping=prog-rock
Frippertronics.  That doesn't have to be the case at all, and anyone
who's been to a single looping festival knows that.    


** andre et al . . . 

andre, as always many perceptive comments. 

i'm just gonna riff on these two paragraphs. 

this part of your post reminds me that this list is perhaps best thought of
as a list not unlike a bass list or a guitar list . . . we all *play*
loopers, but we play different genres of music with those instruments. 

after all, on the bass lists i'm on (and i admit to being on more than one,
sigh), noone expects that *everyone* is going to be playing r&b, or jazz, or
"worship-based" music, or what-have-you. they tend to talk about gear
problems/issues, technique issues, new bass discs, people they saw playing
on tv, amps, etc. really it's not unlike most of the stuff that gets
discussed here - - except this list does get into a few more esoteric realms
of discussion ;-) 

perhaps this is why we on the ld list tend to talk more about gear and
technique than we do "music" (to answer that question a few weeks back) - -
we play these instruments, but they don't define the music we play - -
they're the "how," but they're not the "what" . . .  

actually, andre's post made me feel a lot better about being involved in a
loop fest at some point: i was always worried that i wouldn't be "loopy"
enough (or something) for folks, but if i think about it more along the
lines of a bass-fest (if you get my analogous drift), i can deal with it a
little better. 

anyway, ramblage ends . . . 

stig





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<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2653.12">
<TITLE>RE: Why I produce LOOPING FESTIVALS:  is looping a valid musical  ar=
tform?</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<BR>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I personally feel that there are an AWFUL lot of preconce=
ptions about</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>how real-time loop-based music is SUPPOSED to sound in t=
he minds of the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>musicians who actually use the tools.&nbsp; This happens=
 both stylistically</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>and technically, and I think it's potentially very probl=
ematic.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>In terms of style, there are still an awful lot of linger=
ing stereotypes</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>about looping=3Davante-garde, or looping=3Dambient, or l=
ooping=3Dprog-rock</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Frippertronics.&nbsp; That doesn't have to be the case a=
t all, and anyone</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>who's been to a single looping festival knows that.&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; </FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>** andre et al . . . </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>andre, as always many perceptive comments. </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>i'm just gonna riff on these two paragraphs. </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>this part of your post reminds me that this list is perha=
ps best thought of as a list not unlike a bass list or a guitar list . . . =
we all *play* loopers, but we play different genres of music with those ins=
truments. </FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>after all, on the bass lists i'm on (and i admit to being=
 on more than one, sigh), noone expects that *everyone* is going to be play=
ing r&amp;b, or jazz, or &quot;worship-based&quot; music, or what-have-you.=
 they tend to talk about gear problems/issues, technique issues, new bass d=
iscs, people they saw playing on tv, amps, etc. really it's not unlike most=
 of the stuff that gets discussed here - - except this list does get into a=
 few more esoteric realms of discussion ;-) </FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>perhaps this is why we on the ld list tend to talk more a=
bout gear and technique than we do &quot;music&quot; (to answer that questi=
on a few weeks back) - - we play these instruments, but they don't define t=
he music we play - - they're the &quot;how,&quot; but they're not the &quot=
;what&quot; . . .&nbsp; </FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>actually, andre's post made me feel a lot better about be=
ing involved in a loop fest at some point: i was always worried that i woul=
dn't be &quot;loopy&quot; enough (or something) for folks, but if i think a=
bout it more along the lines of a bass-fest (if you get my analogous drift)=
, i can deal with it a little better. </FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>anyway, ramblage ends . . . </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>stig</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>

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on, publication or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. The sende=
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your data or computer system that may occur while using data contained in, =
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In a message dated 6/5/02 4:21:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
Steuart.Liebig@maritz.com writes:


> ** at the risk of sounding like a moron, i'd also suggest l.a. 

if i had my drutthers (SP?) and what the heck are drutthers, i would like to 
live on a bus.....many have considered me a moron.....michael

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 6/5/02 4:21:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Steuart.Liebig@maritz.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">** at the risk of sounding like a moron, i'd also suggest l.a. </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
if i had my drutthers (SP?) and what the heck are drutthers, i would like to live on a bus.....many have considered me a moron.....michael</FONT></HTML>

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if i had my drutthers (SP?) and what the heck are drutthers, i would like to
live on a bus.....many have considered me a moron.....michael  
 
** firesign theater reference?????
 
stig 



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  <DIV><FONT size=2><BR><BR><FONT face=Arial>if i had my drutthers (SP?) and 
  what the heck are drutthers, i would like to live on a bus.....many have 
  considered me a moron.....michael</FONT></FONT><FONT face=Arial>&nbsp;<FONT 
  color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
  class=344032422-05062002>&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
  class=344032422-05062002></SPAN></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
  class=344032422-05062002>** firesign theater 
  reference?????</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
  class=344032422-05062002></SPAN></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
  class=344032422-05062002>stig&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><CODE><FONT SIZE=3><BR>
<BR>
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Subject: inflate shoes now.....was Looper Moving!
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In a message dated 6/5/02 6:24:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
Steuart.Liebig@maritz.com writes:


> ** firesign theater reference?????
> 
bozo/moron why split hairs?.....:).....michael

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 6/5/02 6:24:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Steuart.Liebig@maritz.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#0000ff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">** firesign theater reference?????</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">bozo/moron why split hairs?.....:).....michael<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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Subject: Re: Looping is overrated :)
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In a message dated 6/5/02 5:09:26 PM, jondrums@hotmail.com writes:

<< Now if I want to learn to play the tabla,

I mean really learn to play the tabla;  would you tell me that its useless

to move to India?  That I can learn everything I need to know to make music

by staying right where I am and playing tabla at clubs along with guitar

players, and conga drummers???? >>

Depends.  If you want to carry on a tradition, then by all means go learn 
tabla playing at the source.  Personally I'd rather hear you play after you 
noodled around for a few years on your own, under a variety of different 
influences and/or your very own inspiration. - Paul

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At 6:19 PM -0400 6/5/02, Nemoguitt@aol.com wrote:

>what the heck are drutthers

"Druthers" were Pappy Yukum's favorite food in the L'il Abner comic 
strip. He "druther" eat them than just about anything, I 'spect.

I think they're some kind of bramble that it normally inedible, but 
when heated up by a brush fire they pop like popcorn and are quite 
tasty. Pappy used to like on his back with his mouth open and the 
druthers would just leap right into it.
-- 

______________________________________________________________
Richard Zvonar, PhD
(818) 788-2202
http://www.zvonar.com
http://RZCybernetics.com
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Pappy used to like on his back with his mouth open and the 
druthers would just leap right into it.

** sounds almost like a shmoo.

stig

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<P><FONT SIZE=2>Pappy used to like on his back with his mouth open and the </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>druthers would just leap right into it.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>** sounds almost like a shmoo.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>stig</FONT>
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun  5 20:59:20 2002
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Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 20:50:22 -0400
From: skincage <skincage@infin8ty.com>
Subject: Re: Swedish sound clips
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i really liked those. the phone rang early into the third one perfectly in time to be in tune
with one of the loops! i honestly don't like guitars much but i love them in this context. i
also really like the short percussive loops underneath. bravo!

this is making me want to make some clips of the shows i've done lately. loop-based noise
with some circuit-bent sounds and found tapes. i'm recording them from minidisc to hard drive
anyway, would anyone like to trade "bootlegs" of their own live shows?

jon/skincage

----- Original Message -----
From: Per Boysen <per@boysen.se>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 1:07 PM
Subject: Swedish sound clips


> http://www.boysen.se/audio/No_Talking_Drum_I.mp3 1 MB
> http://www.boysen.se/audio/No_Talking_Drum_II.mp3 3,2 MB
> http://www.boysen.se/audio/No_Talking_Drum_III.mp3 1,3 MB
>
> Hi All,
>
> For those who might be interested in checking out the music of other loopers
> I'm posting three short excerpts from a gig I did this Sunday. I brought my
> little Casio DAT and recorded the 38 minutes improvisation.
>
> Sound source: Fender Strat/POD/EDP/Repeater/LXP-5.
>
> I was joined on stage by my Nigerian friend Jeff on talking drum but
> unfortunately very little of his drumming got recorded (technical problems).
> I tried to recreate his input by adding another drum track afterwards, using
> Logic Audio. No editing were done to the guitar looping rig, I left it
> exactly the way it sounded at the venue.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Per Boysen
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun  5 21:00:48 2002
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Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 20:47:36 -0400
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Subject: Re: how bout a southern loop fest
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i'm from NC and i wish we'd had one too! closest thing was when the Transmissions festival
passed through Chapel Hill and a lot of the laptop jockeys were doing fun loopy glitch stuff.
there was one guy doing a phase piece by playing guitar along with some disco loop which was
kinda lame, but most notable to me as far as actually really wonderful music were a few bands
toward the end doing feedback drones and one guy who used his laptop and a mic to make
loopscapes from a small metal object. beautiful.  i'm in DC now and about to move to AZ, but
i still wish there would be more looping events, everywhere! the south needs it though, the
south needs anything mind-expanding it can get.

cheers,

jon/skincage
----- Original Message -----
From: Darrell Havard <darrell367@earthlink.net>
To: looper delight <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 11:01 PM
Subject: how bout a southern loop fest


> all this talk of looping festivals makes me wonder if we should have one in
> the south.  of course I'm partially kidding.  Just trying to flush out any
> loopers on the list that are from the south, other than myself and mr
> fowler.
> It would be kinda cool though.
> Loopin' southern style. we'll try not to get fried chicken grease all over
> your gear.
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun  5 21:28:10 2002
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Probably a stupid question but I figured I would ask anyway.

Does a device exist that takes in a MIDI signal and translates the MIDI 
clock to a basic "beat" or "tap" signal through a TRS output? Specifically 
so that you could then transmit that signal to a "tempo tap footpedal" input 
of a Vortex or other such older device? (Hopefully that made sense)

It seems like such a device would be fairly simple to construct (at least to 
my severely limited technical knowledge) as well as useful, but I have never 
seen such a beastie.

Thanks y'all,

-p

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

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"bozo/moron" .........I'm gonna pretend I didn't hear that remark.That's Mr. 
Bozo to you pal.
                     b.helm. 

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I'll play it, Birmingham, AL central enough for everyone?

Justin Sable Fobes

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">I'll play it, Birmingham, AL central enough for everyone?<BR>
<BR>
Justin Sable Fobes</FONT></HTML>

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>At 6:19 PM -0400 6/5/02, Nemoguitt@aol.com wrote:
>
>>what the heck are drutthers


RZ responded:

>"Druthers" were Pappy Yukum's favorite food in the L'il Abner comic 
>strip. He "druther" eat them than just about anything, I 'spect.


Richard's second sentence gives the colloquial meaning of the term "my druthers."  As in the phrase, "if I had my druthers, I'd druther . . ."  I believe this was originally meant to approximate humorously the drawl of Southern US speakers slurring the syllables in "I'd rather."  Eventually the term evolved into "my druthers" meaning roughly "if I had things my way" or "if I had any control over events . . ."

Thanks, Richard, for bringing back the Al Capp memories!  It's been way too long.

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Second that - thanks Rick for providing this very approachable view of
what
it is that brings us together here.

It's the gear - right?  <just kidding>

Actually - the question of 'looping' as a free-standing musical style
has
always been a non-issue.  No more relevant than whether or not we
incorporate  the 'multimedia experience' to the mix, or whether you
choose
acrylics over oils.  Fact is art needs no labels in and of itself.  They
do
provide a convenient way of talking about certain artists or approaches,
and helps identify certain things that artists have in common.  In
general
I find labels too convenient for non-artists to pigeonhole works that
they
feel compelled to comment on...

The crew on this list probably all transcend the label, though -in one
way
or another.

Dan Ash

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Subject: Re: Swedish sound clips
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This is great stuff. I'm on my third or fourth listen now.

Mark

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Subject: Re: Why I produce LOOPING FESTIVALS: is looping a valid musical
	artform?
From: Mark Hamburg <mark_hamburg@baymoon.com>
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I've been confronted on occasion with trying to explain what it means to be
a looper -- particularly around the time I mentioned to people that I was
going to be playing at Loopstock. I haven't had a good answer other than to
say that for me it means having some form of electronic device that repeats
what I've played earlier and using that as a tool for constructing music.
That probably covers a lot of people on this list though not everyone.

Looping as an artform/technique/whatever is free to be as geeky as it wants
to be for an audience of fellow loopers. On the other hand, you could also
say that about something like sweep picking and we don't see a lot of sweep
picking festivals. (Or at least I haven't.)

When we are talking about having festivals as opposed to say conventions we
need to start worrying about how to appeal to people who don't themselves
loop. Is "looping" a useful term in that context?

I think as an advisory to people that they better have a fair amount of
tolerance for repitition, it's useful. Most music, of course, has repitition
but like listening to Glass and Reich -- who don't really loop in anything
after their early pieces -- attending a looping performance probably
requires having a certain interest in things that will evolve from one place
to the next rather than jumping. Obviously this is not always true, but in a
lot of looping music elements repeat but frequently in an evolved form even
if that evolution is sometimes just fade outs and overdubs. Really
appreciating looping I think requires some interest in how the music comes
together and changes even if one doesn't understand the technology that
makes it possible.

Note that it's also possible to use looping techniques in support of other
genres of music -- e.g., what Bill Frisell does -- but I don't think that's
what I would expect to see at a looping festival. Would I walk out of a
looping festival if someone just used loops as an extra effect? No (unless I
didn't like the music he or she was playing). But I would also not be
looking at the performance as being particularly loop-oriented.

The danger for the members of this group is probably in going too far the
other way. If to appreciate the music, the audience needs to appreciate the
intricacies of your technology ("Oooh. He's doing Fibonacci sniplet rotation
on the Againinator!"), then you've probably strayed out of making music and
into geeky self-indulgence.

Personally, having gotten the evolving, swirling texture thing down
reasonably well, I've been thinking that perhaps the next challenge ought to
be melody without simply falling into the
make-some-backing-tracks-with-the-looper-and-then-solo mode.

Mark

P.S. I felt we should have had some sort of prize for the people who
attended Loopstock who weren't on this list.

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From: Doug Lawrence <dlawren@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Looper Moving!
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RE: Looper Moving!>> from what i can tell, sf has had its own problems=20
>> in terms of venues going down the tubes.

a lot of venues in san francisco (bay area)  are cutting back these =
days, some closing ... many due to noise restrictions and some due to =
the dot-com glut ... my guess is that less people are showing up at =
clubs all over town than a year ago and i am finding club owners are =
also cutting pay to bands as well

one thing i have to say about the san francisco scene is that it is very =
diverse ... in the post acid-jazz days of the 90's, about the only style =
really suffering is salsa ... the "jam" band scene is starting to =
finally die down, but it seems like the watered down, hyped-up, =
unclassifiable funk/jazz//latin/trip-hop/electronica/hip-hop groove =
bands will be around for a while ... there are some cool "live drum 'n =
bass" acts around town (some that do looping) and there are really good =
latin jazz and afro cuban projects as well

regardless, it's still a HUGE improvement to the time i spent in =
philadelphia from '93 - '97

>> i have had friends who moved up to sf tell me=20
>> that it is pretty clique-ish and hard to get with people.=20

i think anytime you join a "new" scene, it takes a while to network and =
get your name out there unless you know people ... in my case, moving =
from greater nyc area to san francisco, it took me about a year to get =
some things off the ground and get a roster of good musicians involved =
with my projects that i enjoy working with

and yes, there are some cliques of very talented musicians in the sf =
scene that work together in various projects ... most of these projects =
have been together for years, so it's hard to break into them even as a =
fill-in player


>> i think l.a. can be hard, but most of the people=20
>> i know seem to be open to other/new folks.=20

i was speaking to a guitar player that moved here from l.a. ... he felt =
it was easier to get established in the bay area and much easier to get =
gigs, even with the recent slowdown


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<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>RE: Looper Moving!</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2715.400" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>&gt;&gt; from what i can tell, sf has had its own =
problems=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>&gt;&gt; in terms of venues going down the =
tubes.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>a lot of venues in san francisco (bay area) =
&nbsp;are cutting=20
back these days, some closing ... many due to noise restrictions and =
some due to=20
the dot-com glut ... </FONT><FONT size=3D2>my guess is that less people =
are=20
showing up at clubs all over town than a year ago&nbsp;and i am finding =
club=20
owners are also cutting pay to bands as well</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>one thing i have to say about the san francisco =
scene is that=20
it is very diverse ... in the post acid-jazz days of the 90's, about the =
only=20
style really suffering is salsa ... the "jam" band scene is starting to =
finally=20
die down, but it seems like the watered down, hyped-up, unclassifiable=20
funk/jazz//latin/trip-hop/electronica/hip-hop groove bands will be =
around for a=20
while ... </FONT><FONT size=3D2>there are some cool "live drum 'n bass" =
acts=20
around town (some that do looping) and there are really good latin =
jazz&nbsp;and=20
afro cuban projects as well</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>regardless, it's still a HUGE improvement to the =
time i spent=20
in philadelphia from '93 - '97</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>&gt;&gt; i have had friends who moved up to sf tell =
me=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>&gt;&gt; that it is pretty clique-ish and hard to =
get with=20
people. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>i think anytime you join a "new" scene, it takes a =
while to=20
network and get your name out there unless you know people ... =
</FONT><FONT=20
size=3D2>in my case, moving from greater nyc area to san francisco, it =
took me=20
about a year to get some things off the ground and get a roster of good=20
musicians involved with my projects that i enjoy working =
with</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>and yes, there are some cliques of very talented =
musicians in=20
the sf scene that work together in various projects ... most of these =
projects=20
have been together for years, so it's hard to break into them even as a =
fill-in=20
player</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>&gt;&gt; i think l.a. can be hard, but most of the =
people=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>&gt;&gt; i know seem to be open to other/new folks.=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>i was speaking to a guitar player that moved here =
from l.a.=20
... he felt it was easier to get established in the bay area and much =
easier to=20
get gigs, even with the recent slowdown</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun  6 02:08:53 2002
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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 23:07:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Richards <kohntarkosz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Firesign Theatre
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<<firesign theater reference?????>>

I just got their Waiting For The Electrician Or
Someone Like Him and Don't Crush That Dwarf, Hand
Me The Pliers on CD a couple weeks ago!
Apparently, all of their first four albums have
been reissued on Columbia/Legacy recently (as in
the last few months, I believe).

What's funny is I have an old copy of How Can You
Be In Two Placees At Once When You're No Place At
All a couple years ago, which is also on
Columbia/Legacy, but it's seems that they've
reissued again, as part of the above mentioned
series. Seems kinda odd to reissue an album
twice, on the same label, possibly from the same
master, a couple years apart, just to coordinate
the artwork and all that or whatever.

Then again, Rykodisc did the exact same thing
with most of the Zappa catalog back in 95 as
well. 

"Malcolm X John Lennon! Come in here and dig your
mother!" 

=====
May you never thirst!
The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris

"What do you get when you give a yo-yo to a flock of flamingos?"-James Earl Jones

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun  6 03:54:45 2002
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Stuart Wyatt wrote:

> Live looping is geeky.

Not in your case, Mr. Wyatt.  Had a listen to some of the sounds on your
site and it's really good stuff - well done.  

Check the new guy out, folks:

> Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
> http://www.solostring.com
> stuart@solostring.com

If you haven't, Stuart (or anyone else for that matter), you MUST hear
Todd Reynolds, a New York violinist and looper:

http://www.toddreynolds.com

Brain blowingly fine music he does make.

--Andre 
(geeky son of two violinists)

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Subject: Re: Looping is overrated :)
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 08:55:33 +0100
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Since there are a load of folks from India all over the world (and
especially the US thanks to the Visa game!), it shouldn't be hard to find
someone to teach real Tablas to you, as well as send you in the direction of
a good set.

----- Original Message -----
From: <PMimlitsch@aol.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 00:53 AM
Subject: Re: Looping is overrated :)


> In a message dated 6/5/02 5:09:26 PM, jondrums@hotmail.com writes:
>
> << Now if I want to learn to play the tabla,
>
> I mean really learn to play the tabla;  would you tell me that its useless
>
> to move to India?  That I can learn everything I need to know to make
music
>
> by staying right where I am and playing tabla at clubs along with guitar
>
> players, and conga drummers???? >>
>
> Depends.  If you want to carry on a tradition, then by all means go learn
> tabla playing at the source.  Personally I'd rather hear you play after
you
> noodled around for a few years on your own, under a variety of different
> influences and/or your very own inspiration. - Paul
>
>
>
>

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RE: Looper Moving!Shmoos were for kicking, not for cooking. :)
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Liebig, Steuart A.=20
  To: 'Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com'=20
  Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 01:26 AM
  Subject: RE: Looper Moving!


  Pappy used to like on his back with his mouth open and the=20
  druthers would just leap right into it.=20

  ** sounds almost like a shmoo.=20

  stig=20


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<DIV><FONT color=3D#000080>Shmoos were for kicking, not for cooking.=20
:)</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000080 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3DSteuart.Liebig@maritz.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:Steuart.Liebig@maritz.com">Liebig, Steuart A.</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  title=3DLoopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:'Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com'">'Loopers-Delight@lo=
opers-delight.com'</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, June 06, 2002 =
01:26=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: Looper =
Moving!</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>Pappy used to like on his back with his mouth open =
and the=20
  </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>druthers would just leap right into =
it.</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>** sounds almost like a shmoo.</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>stig</FONT> </P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_008D_01C20D38.0116DB40--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun  6 04:11:32 2002
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To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
References: <20020606060732.67831.qmail@web12303.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Firesign Theatre
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 09:10:00 +0100
Organization: EarthLight Productions
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"Chris Richards" <kohntarkosz@yahoo.com> put forth:


> <<firesign theater reference?????>>
>
> I just got their Waiting For The Electrician Or
> Someone Like Him and Don't Crush That Dwarf, Hand
> Me The Pliers on CD a couple weeks ago!
> Apparently, all of their first four albums have
> been reissued on Columbia/Legacy recently (as in
> the last few months, I believe).

How fortunate for everyone!  Waiting for the Electrician or Somebody Like
Him has been out-of-print for years, ever since Sony bought up the catalog
and decided that it would be best to just have a Best Of collection, which
goes to show how much they understand THAT humor!  I remember a lot of
nervousness from the previous publishers, an early high-quality mastering
bunch who'd published everything before The Giant Rat of Sumatra.  I recall
the guys saying something about it during the 25th Anniversary show at the
Wiltern, back when I was still a free American... Amongst the missing items
I'd wanted to get (beyond the adventures of Hemlock Stones, the Great
Defective, who had a taste for "Uncle Sigmund's Peruvian Cocoa Powder"), was
"Everything You Know Is Wrong!", which is apparently only available (if at
all!) on video tape.

> What's funny is I have an old copy of How Can You
> Be In Two Placees At Once When You're No Place At
> All a couple years ago, which is also on
> Columbia/Legacy, but it's seems that they've
> reissued again, as part of the above mentioned
> series. Seems kinda odd to reissue an album
> twice, on the same label, possibly from the same
> master, a couple years apart, just to coordinate
> the artwork and all that or whatever.
>
> Then again, Rykodisc did the exact same thing
> with most of the Zappa catalog back in 95 as
> well.
>
> "Malcolm X John Lennon! Come in here and dig your
> mother!"

Send her back for re uh, grooving!

I remember some disappointment after trying to complain to Ryko about the
questionable quality of some of the issues from FZ's catalog, most of all
Zoot Allures, which STILL has an unforgiveable and abrupt volume change in
the middle of "The Torture Never Stops".  It makes the song unlistenable
unless you like to wait with baited breath for the moment that you have to
turn the volume down quickly.  Perhaps if I ever get the time, I'll fix it
myself, and send a copy to Ryko out of spite.  Arrgh!

In balance I must praise the issue of "Live in New York", which includes all
of the songs performed at the two shows in 1976.  The LP didn't include
"Cruising for Burgers", for instance, nor did it include "The Torture Never
Stops".  All Hail Ruth Underwood!

Shoes for Industry!

Stephen P. Goodman
EarthLight Productions
*
http://www.earthlight.net/Studios - The Free Loop of the Week!
http://www.earthlight.net/Gallery_Front.html - Cartoons!
http://www.earthlight.net/HiddenTrack.html - More Cartoons!

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun  6 04:29:50 2002
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Subject: Re: Stuart Wyatt is not geeky (nor is Todd Reynolds)
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Hey! Thanks for the link! (and the nice comments).


On Thursday, June 6, 2002, at 09:48 AM, Andre LaFosse wrote:

> If you haven't, Stuart (or anyone else for that matter), you MUST hear
> Todd Reynolds, a New York violinist and looper:
>
> http://www.toddreynolds.com
>
> Brain blowingly fine music he does make.
--
Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
http://www.solostring.com
stuart@solostring.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun  6 04:41:58 2002
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Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 04:45:07 -0400
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: just john <just-john@just-john.com>
Subject: Re: Firesign Theatre
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><<firesign theater reference?????>>
>
:
:
:
>Then again, Rykodisc did the exact same thing
>with most of the Zappa catalog back in 95 as
>well.
>

One big difference:  The Firesign Theatre is still performing and still
coming out with new, good stuff.  There seemed to be a dip in quality
during the 80s, when (I think) Ossman left for a while, but all four are
back together, and "Give Me Immortality or Give Me Death" and "Boom Dot
Bust" are pretty dandy.


"This braking experience brought to you by America Plus; we own the concept
of stopping." -- FT (thru my faulty memory)
---
* just-john@just-john.com  http://just-john.com/cn/rfe.shtml *

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun  6 05:19:27 2002
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O list,

The second half of my LoopIV-fueled DJ identity crisis:

1) Derek Bailey and Kool Keith assimilated by the Borg:
http://www.altruistmusic.com/soundfiles/strange.mp3

2) ECM goes Drum and Bass:
http://www.altruistmusic.com/soundfiles/relent.mp3

3) Droid tailgate party at the Jawa Sandcrawler:
http://www.altruistmusic.com/soundfiles/reaction.mp3

4) Cypress Hill scores Tim Burton:
http://shoko.calarts.edu/~altruist/wok.mp3

5) Attack of the killer blob:
http://www.altruistmusic.com/soundfiles/ton.mp3

And that's that.

C ya,

--Andre LaFosse
http://www.altruistmusic.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun  6 05:37:42 2002
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Subject: Re: Semi OT Gear question
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 11:40:59 +0200
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> Does a device exist that takes in a MIDI signal and translates the MIDI
> clock to a basic "beat" or "tap" signal through a TRS output? Specifically
> so that you could then transmit that signal to a "tempo tap footpedal"
input
> of a Vortex or other such older device? (Hopefully that made sense)


yes there is, i got something from Kenton electronics called the Kago Pro,
exactly for the vortex, its about 100 quid (UKpounds)
...HOWEVER there are some issure regarding using it

1.Ask for a chip (they did this for free) to halve the clock speed,
otherwise you only get fast(ish) delays

2.Due to the inaccuracies of midi, on the vortex the "Looping" programs like
DejaVu will not be exactly perfect as long as you keep sending the pulses,
and you will get a glitch at the loop point. This is the same as tapping
continuously on the switch, occasionally you will be out by a bit and the
loop with glitch. I therfore have a small switch on the cable to the tap
tempo input and just flick it on when i want to synch it all up, but then I
switch off again. this insures that you are in synch however it WIL NOT keep
you rock solid with other midi gear cos now you a freewheelin'!!!

Hope this helps!

MArk Francombe Red

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Subject: Re: midi loops
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_00FF_01C20D4F.9C8B0850
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  Hello every body, this is my first mail to the Looooooooplist !

  I am looking for a midi looper. A tool that would not sample an audio =
source, but store midi events.

  I know that good sequencers can do that, but I want a small and cheap =
one.

  Does someone know this kind of thing ?



  Yeah ME TOO!!!



  MArk Francombe red!


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  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
  <P>Hello every body, this is my first mail to the Looooooooplist !</P>
  <P>I am looking for a midi looper. A tool that would not sample an =
audio=20
  source, but store midi events.</P>
  <P>I know that good sequencers can do that, but I want a small and =
cheap=20
  one.</P>
  <P>Does someone know this kind of thing ?</P>
  <P>&nbsp;</P>
  <P>Yeah ME TOO!!!</P>
  <P>&nbsp;</P>
  <P>MArk Francombe red!</P></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_00FF_01C20D4F.9C8B0850--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun  6 08:02:19 2002
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From: "M. Steven Ginn" <sginn@airmail.net>
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Subject: RE: Tap Tempo with EDP
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 06:59:58 -0500
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> 
> What is the best way to manage Tap Tempo in a system?  Is it 
> better to use an Eventide Eclipse (or any effects processor 
> for that matter) or is it better to use the EDP as the main source?
> 
> Thanks,
> Steve
> 

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From: "M. Steven Ginn" <sginn@airmail.net>
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Subject: RE: 3 Button Footswitch
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 07:00:28 -0500
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> Does anyone know of a 3 button footswitch other than the 
> Digitech FS300? I am looking for something like it that 
> connects using a TRS cable.  The problem with the FS300 is 
> that it doesn't work with my Eventide Eclipse.
> 
> Thanks,
> Steve
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun  6 08:29:15 2002
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Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 08:31:18 -0400
From: Legion <legion@helpwantedproductions.com>
Subject: Re: [AH] FS: Osciloscope SOLD!
To: Analogue Heaven <analogue@hyperreal.org>,
        "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
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Thanks for all the offers,  the oscilloscope is sold to a good home.



From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun  6 08:31:33 2002
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Subject: SV: Tap Tempo with EDP
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 14:30:20 +0200
Message-ID: <FIEIJMAJJEJHHAGJCJNLKEKMCLAA.per@boysen.se>
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> > What is the best way to manage Tap Tempo in a system?  Is it
> > better to use an Eventide Eclipse (or any effects processor
> > for that matter) or is it better to use the EDP as the main source?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Steve
> >

Even though the EDP doesn't timestrech loops on tempo change (as Repeater
does) I like using the EDP as sync master/source. What you then have to do
to change the tempo is to step on "rec" and record a new loop in the new
tempo. For me that is far more intuitive than trying to "tap" the tempo into
some electronic device while playing. I've tried this with Repeater and with
Jam Man but I could never get it to work musically when playing/looping
together with other musicians.

With my setup everything that are syncing to the EDP midi click stops while
I'm recording the new (tempo) loop. This gives some kind of "break effect"
because on closing the "record loop" all the slaving machinery kicks in at
the new tempo.

Best wishes

Per Boysen
________________
http://loopboy.tk
www.boysen.se
www.upsweden.com
www.fuzz.se

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In a message dated 6/5/02 8:22:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, zvonar@zvonar.com 
writes:


> Pappy used to like on his back with his mouth open and the 
> druthers would just leap right into it.
> 

richard.....you're lucky to have a skull or your brain would be all over the 
universe!.....michael

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 6/5/02 8:22:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, zvonar@zvonar.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Pappy used to like on his back with his mouth open and the <BR>
druthers would just leap right into it.<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
richard.....you're lucky to have a skull or your brain would be all over the universe!.....michael</FONT></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun  6 09:27:52 2002
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From: "McGauley, Todd" <tmcgauley@dlbabson.com>
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Subject: Question about gear
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 09:25:34 -0400
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I'm new to the looping community, and was wondering if you all could help me
out. I'm looking to get a loop sampler to play live, but also record onto my
PC from time to time (I have Cakewalk). I play an acoustic guitar through an
amp and sing through a PA system, and I wanted to loop both things. I was
thinking about getting two Line 6 LD-4s and making two different loops,
since that's what I would want to have. I would occasionally take the guitar
part out and have just the vocals going, for example. I thought about the
Boomerang Plus for a while, but I'm not sure if that's going to do what I
want it to. Lately, I've been thinking about an Electrix Repeater, but I
have very little / no experience with rackmounts. Any suggestions would be
greatly appreciated.

Todd

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun  6 11:40:48 2002
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From: "Neil Goldstein" <ngold@attbi.com>
To: "Loopers-Delight" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: FW: Tap Tempo with EDP
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 08:26:33 -0700
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> With my setup everything that are syncing to the EDP midi click
> stops while
> I'm recording the new (tempo) loop. This gives some kind of "break effect"
> because on closing the "record loop" all the slaving machinery kicks in at
> the new tempo.
>

Its very exciting...After experimenting with the same gear, I've found this
to be my favorite way to go too. Hoping the LoopIV features enable even more
control and finesse in this scenario.

Neil

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun  6 12:34:34 2002
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Subject: SV: Tap Tempo with EDP
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 18:32:52 +0200
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> > With my setup everything that are syncing to the EDP midi click
> > stops while
> > I'm recording the new (tempo) loop. This gives some kind of
> "break effect"
> > because on closing the "record loop" all the slaving machinery
> kicks in at
> > the new tempo.
> >
>
> Its very exciting...After experimenting with the same setup, I've
> found this
> to be my favorite too. Hoping the LoopIV features enable even more control
> and finesse in this scenario.
>
> Neil
>

...yes it really does :-D

As Kim said here the other day you can save presets that are accessible by
midi program change. This means you can have one preset with the 8th/cycle
set to "4" and another preset with the 8th/cycle set to "6". What will
happen when changing preset this way, is that the EDP will start sending out
midi clock at another tempo, while still spinning its loops at the old
tempo. But the midi slaved stuff will immediately pick up the new tempo,
thus creating interesting polyrhythmic patterns against the EDP loops. I
just can't wait to test this in praxis!

/ per

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Subject: Old and In the Way
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First Lil' Abner references then Firesign Theatre?
Gosh, Beave... time to dust off the Loopers!

Bill

"Go ahead, squeeze the wheeze.  Many people like to."

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun  6 13:06:57 2002
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Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 18:03:42 +0100
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One last one, to OOT this thread once and for all, or not...

Firesign Theatre sounds at http://www.earthlight.net/Firesign.html.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <WKlein8318@aol.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 17:33 PM
Subject: Old and In the Way


> First Lil' Abner references then Firesign Theatre?
> Gosh, Beave... time to dust off the Loopers!
> 
> Bill
> 
> "Go ahead, squeeze the wheeze.  Many people like to."
> 
> 
> 
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun  6 13:44:23 2002
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From: "Liebig, Steuart A." <Steuart.Liebig@maritz.com>
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	 <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: RE: Looper Moving!
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 12:13:38 -0400 
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** okay . .  see i remember that the shmoos would jump right into the frying
pan and taste like whatever you wanted them to taste like - - all for your
pleasure.
 
in fact, i also remember that the gov't and business decided they were too
dangerous - - commerce would stop if people got what they wanted all the
time.
 
stig



Shmoos were for kicking, not for cooking. :)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Liebig, Steuart A. <mailto:Steuart.Liebig@maritz.com>  
To: 'Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com'
<mailto:'Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com'>  
Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 01:26 AM
Subject: RE: Looper Moving!


Pappy used to like on his back with his mouth open and the 
druthers would just leap right into it. 

** sounds almost like a shmoo. 

stig 



<font size="1">Confidentiality Warning:  This e-mail contains information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above.  If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, any dissemination, publication or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. The sender does not accept any responsibility for any loss, disruption or damage to your data or computer system that may occur while using data contained in, or transmitted with, this e-mail.   If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify us by return e-mail.  Thank you.


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<TITLE>RE: Looper Moving!</TITLE>

<META content="MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><SPAN class=866101216-06062002><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2>** 
okay . .&nbsp; see i remember that the shmoos would jump right into the frying 
pan and taste like whatever you wanted them to taste like - - all for your 
pleasure.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=866101216-06062002></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=866101216-06062002></SPAN><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><FONT 
color=#0000ff><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=866101216-06062002>in fact, i also 
remember that the gov't and business decided they were too dangerous - - 
commerce would stop if people got what they wanted all the 
time.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT face=Arial><SPAN 
class=866101216-06062002></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><SPAN class=866101216-06062002></SPAN><FONT size=2><FONT 
color=#0000ff><FONT face=Arial><SPAN 
class=866101216-06062002>stig</SPAN><BR><BR></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"></FONT>
  <DIV><FONT color=#000080>Shmoos were for kicking, not for cooking. 
  :)</FONT></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
  style="BORDER-LEFT: #000080 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
    <DIV 
    style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> 
    <A href="mailto:Steuart.Liebig@maritz.com" 
    title=Steuart.Liebig@maritz.com>Liebig, Steuart A.</A> </DIV>
    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A 
    href="mailto:'Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com'" 
    title=Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>'Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com'</A> 
    </DIV>
    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, June 06, 2002 01:26 
    AM</DIV>
    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: Looper Moving!</DIV>
    <DIV><BR></DIV>
    <P><FONT size=2>Pappy used to like on his back with his mouth open and the 
    </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>druthers would just leap right into it.</FONT> </P>
    <P><FONT size=2>** sounds almost like a shmoo.</FONT> </P>
    <P><FONT size=2>stig</FONT> </P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><CODE><FONT SIZE=3><BR>
<BR>
<font size="1">Confidentiality Warning:  This e-mail contains information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above.  If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, any dissemination, publication or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. The sender does not accept any responsibility for any loss, disruption or damage to your data or computer system that may occur while using data contained in, or transmitted with, this e-mail.   If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify us by return e-mail.  Thank you.<BR>
</FONT></CODE>
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Subject: Re: Looper Moving!
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 19:01:19 +0100
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RE: Looper Moving!Arrgh, sorry, still recovering from Jubilee Weekend. =
:)  You're right!  One wishes Al Capp were with us still...!
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Liebig, Steuart A.=20
  To: 'Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com'=20
  Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 17:13 PM
  Subject: RE: Looper Moving!


  ** okay . .  see i remember that the shmoos would jump right into the =
frying pan and taste like whatever you wanted them to taste like - - all =
for your pleasure.

  in fact, i also remember that the gov't and business decided they were =
too dangerous - - commerce would stop if people got what they wanted all =
the time.

  stig


    Shmoos were for kicking, not for cooking. :)
      ----- Original Message -----=20
      From: Liebig, Steuart A.=20
      To: 'Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com'=20
      Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 01:26 AM
      Subject: RE: Looper Moving!


      Pappy used to like on his back with his mouth open and the=20
      druthers would just leap right into it.=20

      ** sounds almost like a shmoo.=20

      stig=20



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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>RE: Looper Moving!</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2716.2200" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000080>Arrgh, sorry, still recovering from Jubilee =
Weekend.=20
:)&nbsp; You're right!&nbsp; One wishes Al Capp were with us=20
still...!</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000080 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3DSteuart.Liebig@maritz.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:Steuart.Liebig@maritz.com">Liebig, Steuart A.</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  title=3DLoopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:'Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com'">'Loopers-Delight@lo=
opers-delight.com'</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, June 06, 2002 =
17:13=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: Looper =
Moving!</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D866101216-06062002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>**=20
  okay . .&nbsp; see i remember that the shmoos would jump right into =
the frying=20
  pan and taste like whatever you wanted them to taste like - - all for =
your=20
  pleasure.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D866101216-06062002></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D866101216-06062002></SPAN><FONT face=3DTahoma><FONT =

  size=3D2><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT face=3DArial><SPAN =
class=3D866101216-06062002>in=20
  fact, i also remember that the gov't and business decided they were =
too=20
  dangerous - - commerce would stop if people got what they wanted all =
the=20
  time.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma><FONT size=3D2><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT =
face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  =
class=3D866101216-06062002></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV=
>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma><SPAN class=3D866101216-06062002></SPAN><FONT =

  size=3D2><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  =
class=3D866101216-06062002>stig</SPAN><BR><BR></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>=

  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"></FONT>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000080>Shmoos were for kicking, not for cooking. =

    :)</FONT></DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
    style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000080 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
      <DIV=20
      style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
      <A title=3DSteuart.Liebig@maritz.com=20
      href=3D"mailto:Steuart.Liebig@maritz.com">Liebig, Steuart A.</A> =
</DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
      title=3DLoopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
      =
href=3D"mailto:'Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com'">'Loopers-Delight@lo=
opers-delight.com'</A>=20
      </DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, June 06, =
2002 01:26=20
      AM</DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: Looper =
Moving!</DIV>
      <DIV><BR></DIV>
      <P><FONT size=3D2>Pappy used to like on his back with his mouth =
open and the=20
      </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>druthers would just leap right into =
it.</FONT>=20
</P>
      <P><FONT size=3D2>** sounds almost like a shmoo.</FONT> </P>
      <P><FONT size=3D2>stig</FONT> =
</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><CODE><FONT=20
  size=3D3><BR><BR><FONT size=3D1>Confidentiality Warning: This e-mail =
contains=20
  information intended only for the use of the individual or entity =
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employee or=20
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  dissemination, publication or copying of this e-mail is strictly =
prohibited.=20
  The sender does not accept any responsibility for any loss, disruption =
or=20
  damage to your data or computer system that may occur while using data =

  contained in, or transmitted with, this e-mail. If you have received =
this=20
  e-mail in error, please immediately notify us by return e-mail. Thank=20
you.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></CODE></FONT></BODY></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun  6 14:05:59 2002
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From: "James Pokorny" <j.pokorny@worldnet.att.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Re: Looping is overrated :) / Study in India
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To continue this somewhat OT thread a bit:

Jon wrote:
>>Now if I want to learn to play the tabla, I mean really learn 
>>to play the tabla; would you tell me that its useless
>> to move to India?  That I can learn everything I need to 
>>know to make music by staying right where I am and 
>>playing tabla at clubs along with guitar players, and 
>>conga drummers?

Stephen replied:
>Since there are a load of folks from India all over the world (and
>especially the US thanks to the Visa game!), it shouldn't be hard to find
>someone to teach real Tablas to you, as well as send you in the direction of
>a good set.


I assumed from the general tone of Jon's post that he was speaking hypothetically, comparing the relative merits of going directly to the source rather than trying to learn from a distance.  Of course, this brings up the question of those hypothetical guitarists and congeros -- did they go to Spain (or the Mississippi Delta, or Nashville, Bakersfield, etc.) to learn guitar?  Did the drummers move to Cuba, Puerto Rico, or some other point in the African diaspora to learn their rhythms?  

Stephen brought up a good point -- that it's not entirely necessary to travel to India to begin learning Indian music.  It *is* important, though, to find a good teacher locally.  In my personal experience I did not travel to India until I'd been studying with a teacher in the US for 5 years.  When I finally did go to India (to learn from my teacher's teacher) I was glad that I'd waited, since I was familiar with the teaching method (rote instruction, or "learning by ear" -- imitating everything the teacher plays) and was comfortable enough with technique, theory, etc. that I could play things back without feeling I was wasting my teacher's time.  I know I would have had a significantly harder time learning the music if I had simply moved to India at the beginning.  A rough equivalent would be someone who has never played music and decides they want to learn to play guitar, then trying to go to Jim Hall or Bucky Pizzarelli to learn basic reading, strumming, scales, hand positions, etc.

If anyone is interested in pursuing Indian music studies outside of India, here are a few links for teachers worldwide:

http://chandrakantha.com/teachers/
http://www.tarang-classical-indian-music.com/indian_teachers_eng.htm
http://www.batish.com/IMTD/

In terms of looping, though (to get back on-topic), I agree that it's far too diverse to lump what each of us does with our music and our looping tools into any kind of "school" or style of playing based solely on looping.  

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun  6 14:09:38 2002
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Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 09:49:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Evan Meyers <evanmeyers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Looping is overrated :)
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 BUT I personally feel that
> looping *itself* isn't the
> point, even on a list of people called the Looper's
> Delight.  It's what
> you DO with looping and boy there is some *great*
> stuff done with
> looping out there.
> 

i tried making a similar point long ago and what i
learned is pretty obvious...this list and the people
on it are here cause of a common interest.  it has
nothing to do with ability, vision, or even if you
have looping gear or make music at all.  it is a
sharing of ideas and a way for people on a wavelength
to meet, greet, and at times, be too elite.  you can
come and go as you like, read or delete as you
like...and THAT (to me, imho) is what "it" is about. 
care to form some other group about what people are
doing with the looping, i'm in!

> with it. Let's face it, looping and looping tools
> are pretty damn geeky
> as a rule. 

why?  who defines that?  is it to you?  not to me...it
is interesting, cutting edge and exciting.

> Again, I am ALL for wanking and looping for the sake
> of it too. (Lord
> knows I am!) That is fun and has it's place as much
> as anything else.
> But let's keep it in perspective, we can (and DO )
> do that anywhere. You
> don't HAVE to  move or congregate  to play. If you
> mix it up or play
> with other bands I guarantee you will not only get a
> bigger audience but
> you'll find your loop chops improving as well.

i'm the only looper in my band...it works better in my
opinion that i'm not walking all over someone elses
loops...these machines are instruments...that's it. 
and like anything, put 10 guitar players in a band and
it is bound to sound odd...but if they all are on,
then it can sound amazing.



__________________________________________________
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My suggestion would be to go with either a Repeater or a two Echoplexes if you're looking to have the loops in synch with eachother.  I don't think there's another way to do this right now.  Two DL4s would be OK, if you didn't need the loops to be synched.

Mark

"McGauley, Todd" wrote:

> I'm new to the looping community, and was wondering if you all could help me
> out. I'm looking to get a loop sampler to play live, but also record onto my
> PC from time to time (I have Cakewalk). I play an acoustic guitar through an
> amp and sing through a PA system, and I wanted to loop both things. I was
> thinking about getting two Line 6 LD-4s and making two different loops,
> since that's what I would want to have. I would occasionally take the guitar
> part out and have just the vocals going, for example. I thought about the
> Boomerang Plus for a while, but I'm not sure if that's going to do what I
> want it to. Lately, I've been thinking about an Electrix Repeater, but I
> have very little / no experience with rackmounts. Any suggestions would be
> greatly appreciated.
>
> Todd
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This e-mail transmission may contain information that is proprietary, privileged and/or confidential and is intended exclusively for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, copying, retention or disclosure by any person other than the intended recipient or the intended recipient's designees is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies.
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun  6 14:35:50 2002
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> >Let's face it, looping and looping tools  are pretty damn geeky  as a
> rule.
> why?  who defines that? is it to you?

As a matter of fact,  yes. :)

> not to me...it is interesting, cutting edge and exciting.

Well then, by definition, you are a geek.

OKAY Okay I'm JUST kidding folks.

Look my original post was all rambling and my personal opinion and all
that rot. I stand by it but I certainly didn't mean to step on anyone's
looping buzz nor do I exclude myself from being a "geek" or "looper" or
wanker or a Musician for that matter. Loopfests are great. Loops
concerts are great. Learning or moving with others is great.  Really. I
just wanted to differentiate between what I saw as something people do
VS something people feel they HAVE to do in order to be a "looper". IMO
you don't need to go somewhere or do anything other than start playing
and paying thousands of dollars to move or buy equipment or travel
somewhere is great but not at all necessary to a good loop time.

Since I seem to have come off wrong and it's not clear let me point out
I've been a looper/outsider/avant/experimental/whatever musician and
member of Loopers delight for more than a few years. I put out the first
Looper's Delight compilation (Still available at
Http://www.HelpWantedProductions.com/catalog.htm   - thank you very
much) and have run a label releasing dozens of underground experimental
albums for over ten years. I LIKE looping and I don't think there's
anything wrong with doing it under *any* circumstance.

But,  there is no bloody way in God's holy hell I am going to say that a
group of gear heads on the internet who discuss what kind of smart media
card is best for an Eletrix Repeater or how many seconds the DL4 can get
in true stereo or organize wildass and cool experimental concerts are
NOT a bunch of  geeks. :)  I personally rather enjoy it but c'mon, 90210
this ain't and that's not a bad thing either :)

____________________________________________________________________
HELP WANTED PRODUCTIONS - Http://www.HelpWantedProductions.com
"Bringing you the best in Organic Electronic music since we started..."

Home of the Unusual Instrument and Recording Gallery with pictures and
info of Tube recorders, Omnichords, weird guitars, Casios, and more.


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun  6 15:08:57 2002
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Hi James,

>>> In terms of looping, though (to get back on-topic), I agree that
it's far too diverse to lump what each of us does with our music and our
looping tools into any kind of "school" or style of playing based solely
on looping.<<<

I would have to beg to differ on that, to tell you the truth.  I think
there absolutely ARE some "schools" of looping, both in terms of the
gear that's used and the conceptual approach behind it.  

And I also absolutely feel there's serious value in being able to see a
looper do their thing in person, ask them questions, and see things
demonstrated.  Looping fests are great for that, and getting tha chance
to play with Matthias Grob was a pretty unbelievable prilege for me - I
felt like Luke Skywalker studying with Yoda.  :)

Anyway.

--Andre

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Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 12:19:38 -0700
From: Anthony Justman <pantonio@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: 1st EMERYVILLE LOOPING FESTIVAL?
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IKEA is evil.

send your wife, but never go there yourself.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Nic Roozeboom" <nicroozeboom@hotmail.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 2:46 PM
Subject: Re: 1st EMERYVILLE LOOPING FESTIVAL?


> I live and work in the San Jose area. I'd be honored at the opportunity to
> play at a loop festival
> Nic
>
> PS plus meanwhile I could drop the wife off at IKEA
>
> >From: Anthony Justman <pantonio@pacbell.net>
> >Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> >To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> >Subject: Re: 1st EMERYVILLE LOOPING FESTIVAL?
> >Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 04:11:13 -0700
> >
> >I work in emeryville.
> >
> >I'd do a festival there.
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Rick Walker/Loop.pooL" <GLOBAL@cruzio.com>
> >To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> >Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 4:58 PM
> >Subject: 1st EMERYVILLE LOOPING FESTIVAL?
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Reading the license plate thread I notice that Alex, Timothy, Kim and
> >the,
> > > as yet unamed,
> > > mystery license plate looper all live in or near Emeryville.
> > >
> > > Why hasn't there been an EMERYVILLE LOOPING FESTIVAL?
> > >
> > > I'd come be a guest artist, gratis, if you guys threw such a
> > > thing.............  :-)
> > >
> > >
> > > yours,  Rick Walker (that obnoxious looping festival fella)
> > >
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> http://www.hotmail.com
>


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun  6 15:22:49 2002
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O ye who are many,

Legion wrote:

> But,  there is no bloody way in God's holy hell I am going to say that a
> group of gear heads on the internet who discuss what kind of smart media
> card is best for an Eletrix Repeater or how many seconds the DL4 can get
> in true stereo or organize wildass and cool experimental concerts are
> NOT a bunch of  geeks. :)  

It's hard to argue when you put it that way.  But I'd also have to say
that gear lust and technical discussion generally bores the hell out of
me.  

I would LOVE to see more discussion about actual MUSIC on this list...
not obesessing over the sorts of tech minutae you mentioned, but
thinking about different ways to use these tools creatively, and
different approaches for doing so.  It's a drag that there isn't more of
that here (to me), but it's usually worth wading through the stuff that
doesn't interest me to find the occasional stuff that does.

And have you heard players like Steve Lawson, Ric Hordinski, or Hans
Lindauer?  These guys aren't particularly "experimental" by default in
terms of the genres of music they play (though they do some pretty
flipped out stuff strictly in a technical sense), but it's all great
music that I first heard at looping festivals.  So I have to take issue
with your assumption that a loopfest in an experimental music show.  

Hey Rick, there's your next project: 

THE WORLD'S FIRST RESOLUTELY NON-EXPERIMENTAL LOOPING FESTIVAL!

It'd have to be held in LA, of course...  ;)

Tell me, Legion, since you've been on the list since waaaaay back: don't
you think the overall stylistic orientation of the list has diversified
and expanded quite a bit since '96?  

> I personally rather enjoy it but c'mon, 90210
> this ain't and that's not a bad thing either :)

You should have seen some of the... um, how should we put this...
"audience interaction" that took place at the first San Luis Obispo show
at the end of March.

Gimme three steps,

--Andre LaFosse
http://www.altruistmusic.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun  6 15:51:04 2002
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Subject: Re: Why I produce LOOPING FESTIVALS: is looping a valid musical  artform?
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> ("Oooh. He's doing Fibonacci sniplet rotation
>  on the Againinator!")

ha, the EDP Loop4 does that reversed! 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun  6 15:58:35 2002
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Subject: Re: Looping is overrated :)geekdom defined
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>>> Let's face it, looping and looping tools  are pretty damn geeky  as a
>> rule.
>> why?  who defines that? is it to you?
> 
> As a matter of fact,  yes. :)
> 
>> not to me...it is interesting, cutting edge and exciting.
> 
> Well then, by definition, you are a geek.




according to Webster's 9th:
 
geek(ca.1942) : n. a carnival performer often billed as a wild man whose act
usu. includes biting the head off a live chicken or snake.

i am a geek!
s

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun  6 16:06:15 2002
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Subject: DL4 Question
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Hi,

I'm new to the list.  I'm a recreational guitar player looking
to get some looping hardware, mostly to practice solos over
looped chords (although from what I understand it's easy to
become addicted to looping ;-).  Right now I'm trying to figure
out what hardware I should get to start...

My question is about the Line 6 DL4.  From what I get out of
the manual, it appears that the only way to enter overdub mode
is from record mode.  Therefore it seems like it is impossible 
to do the following: 1) record a loop, 2) play along with it
to try different ideas, and 3) once you've developed a good
overdub part to then overdub it with the current loop.  This
seems like a serious shortcoming to me.  Am I correct?

If I'm right, this deficiency does not appear on the Line 6 
Echo Pro, since overdub mode can be entered directly via MIDI.
Of course, the other high-end units (Repeater & EDP) don't have
this limitation either.  I had pretty much decided to get a DL4
until I realized this--not that it alone is the deal-breaker, 
but combined with the short loop time and the awkwardness of 
the stompbox format (too hard to access the delay controls) I'm 
back to being undecided, especially since I can't afford the
high-end units...

TIA,

Keith

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun  6 16:09:17 2002
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Subject: Re: Looping is overrated :) / Study in India
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> I wrote:
> >>Now if I want to learn to play the tabla, I mean really learn
> >>to play the tabla; would you tell me that its useless
> >> to move to India?  That I can learn everything I need to
> >>know to make music by staying right where I am and
> >>playing tabla at clubs along with guitar players, and
> >>conga drummers?
>
> Stephen replied:
> >Since there are a load of folks from India all over the world (and
> >especially the US thanks to the Visa game!), it shouldn't be hard to find
> >someone to teach real Tablas to you, as well as send you in the direction
of
> >a good set.
>
>
>
>James replied:
>I assumed from the general tone of Jon's post that he was speaking
hypothetically, comparing
>the relative merits of going directly to the source rather than trying to
learn from a distance.

Agreed to everything everyone said!  My point was that there IS value in
studying with others who have experience with what you want to learn.  There
is value in living close to others who share your common goals!  There is
even value to learn the tradition way to make tabla strokes, even if you
don't wish to play in the traditional sense.  So I value learning other
people's aproach to looping, even though I don't wish to replicate another
person's style.  Seeing what other people do is part of mastering your
instrument - and yes I view my looping tools as instruments.

Jon

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun  6 16:10:29 2002
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> > But,  there is no bloody way in God's holy hell I am going to say that a
> group of gear heads on the internet who discuss what kind of smart media
> card is best for an Eletrix Repeater or how many seconds the DL4 can get  in
> true stereo or organize wildass and cool experimental concerts are  NOT a
> bunch of  geeks. :)
>
> It's hard to argue when you put it that way.  But I'd also have to say that
> gear lust and technical discussion generally bores the hell out of me.

Fair enough.  See it *does* take all kinds... :)


> Hey Rick, there's your next project:
> THE WORLD'S FIRST RESOLUTELY NON-EXPERIMENTAL LOOPING FESTIVAL!

Hey, now *there's* an idea. Cool.

> Tell me, Legion, since you've been on the list since waaaaay back: don't you
> think the overall stylistic orientation of the list has diversified and
> expanded quite a bit since '96?

Dammit you're going to make me be serious a minute aren't you? First of all
there certainly have been people on here longer and in more substantive ways
that me. That said IMO  the truth is there have *always* been serious and non
experimental loopers on the list and putting stuff out. The reason I jump
started the CD#1 was because I was blown away by the mix of songs and talent
and didn't want to see that buried. In some cases it wasn't even clear that
people were using loops in the first place. I've played that CD for coworkers
(who usually RUN from my office crying when i play them my choices in music)
and they *LOVED* it. That is the power of the good loop.

As for the list then and now we  have people who exclusively loop acoustic
guitar or string instruments and then there are people who use turntables and
Kaoss pads. There's the geeky (sorry!)  Chapman stick or Roland guitar synth
crowd (guilty!) and the you-wouldn't-know-it's-a-loop-if -it-hit-you
instrumentalists. There are men (mostly) women (certainly a few) young and old
loopers here form all over the world. Some people even come here and *aren't*
loopers but are just curious what it's all about. It's always been a pretty
healthy mix IMO and Kim is the best damn moderator I've seen on many an
internet list.

As technology has grown more tools are now available (remember when you
couldn't buy an EDP and the Jamman was discontinued?) but ironically I don't
think that more or cheaper tools have actually made that much difference in
the music or the mix of genres. If anything I'd say the big change has nothing
to do with the styles and more to do with actually Getting OUT there and
looping (Loop shows, people posting their gigs, etc). That's always been
around too but it seems to be more and more now than before. And THAT is a
VERY good thing IMO.

David - Legion (for we are many) - Talento

____________________________________________________________________
HELP WANTED PRODUCTIONS - Http://www.HelpWantedProductions.com
"Bringing you the best in Organic Electronic music since we started..."

Home of the Unusual Instrument and Recording Gallery with pictures and
info of Tube recorders, Omnichords, weird guitars, Casios, and more.


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun  6 16:14:06 2002
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> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
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I'm trying to sync up 3 edps with brother sync and am having difficulty --
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun  6 16:36:01 2002
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for practicing purposes...even a little live playing...i would try the akai
headrush.

it won't enter overdub mode until you hit "overdub".  it's affordable
(probably around 140 used) and easy to operate.

i used one for a year before i "graduated" to the edp, which blows the akai
away (needless to say), but for what you've described, the akai would be a
wise investment.

-jim


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No doubt - if you really want to study looping, move to Brazil.  Housing
there is probably cheaper than in SF, too.

-Hans


> Subject: Re: Looping is overrated :) / Study in India
> Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 12:04:07 -0700
> From: Andre LaFosse <altruist@earthlink.net>
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> 
> Hi James,
> 
> >>> In terms of looping, though (to get back on-topic), I agree that
> it's far too diverse to lump what each of us does with our music and
> our
> looping tools into any kind of "school" or style of playing based
> solely
> on looping.<<<
> 
> I would have to beg to differ on that, to tell you the truth.  I think
> there absolutely ARE some "schools" of looping, both in terms of the
> gear that's used and the conceptual approach behind it.
> 
> And I also absolutely feel there's serious value in being able to see
> a
> looper do their thing in person, ask them questions, and see things
> demonstrated.  Looping fests are great for that, and getting tha
> chance
> to play with Matthias Grob was a pretty unbelievable prilege for me -
> I
> felt like Luke Skywalker studying with Yoda.  :)
> 
> Anyway.
> 
> --Andre

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Hey gang,

I'll be doing my ever popular re-scoring of the classic film TRON this
friday night at 8:30 at 21 Grand in Oakland (no longer located at 21
Grand, see www.21grand.org for directions)  I'll be joined by my friend
Gerard on turntables and devices.  Hope to see some of you there,

Mark Sottilaro

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Subject: This week at 21 Grand
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This Week at 21 Grand
21 Grand is a multi-disciplinary arts space located at 449B 23rd St.
(between Broadway and Telegraph) in Oakland.
21grand@onebox.com
(510) 444-7263=20

Thanks to everyone who came out for our art sale and those generous artists
who donated work!

Friday, June 7 "Deus est Machina (God is Machine)"
Nicedisc+Sleeping+Organoff 8:30PM $5-10

Local group, Sleeping creates progressive electronica with electronic rhyth=
m
tracks with keyboard loops, toys, samplers, a host of unholy devices, plus =
a
DJ, and the frankenstein monster of guitars, the Chapman Stick. Sleeping
incorporates video projection into their mainly improvised compositions
ranging from free form to pop influenced pieces. Their influences range fro=
m
Robert Fripp to Negativland to Laurie Anderson.

Nicedisc is a New York City laptop band from the f-matic collective. They
will be bringing their mobile unit (dr. VHS and tapedeck) to preach the
gospel of pixels and low-fi electronic noise.

Organoff is an improvised, interactive performance involving organs and
"prepared guitars" and spontaneous composition of soundtracks to video,
conceived of by Jon Brumit.

Saturday June 8 Artists' Reception for Symptom    7- 11PM free

This reception is happening in tandem with receptions at Door.7 and Ego
Park, two art galleries within a block radius of 21Grand, forming the 23rd
and Telegraph Art Nexus.

SYMPTOM

>From June 6 to June 30, 21Grand presents =B3Symptom=B2: a two-person exhibition
of=A0 recent paintings by Narangkar Khalsa and recent photographs by Stephani=
e
Dean. In this suite of work the two artists present their parallel views of
the civilized wastes and sarcastic scenarios that intrigue them. In an
observation tuned to the absurdly real, the two offer the sum of their
explorations of urban life and common culture.=A0

Themes that arise in the work of both artists are people, places, icons, an=
d
humor. Above all, the most constant theme is that of the awe of discovery.
Through this approach to art, the two create new and disjuncted views of th=
e
world - paintings that are creepy and morbid, and photos that are humorousl=
y
disturbing. These two artists have created a relapse for the pedestrian
viewer in which he is compelled to digest mundane information rather than
ignore it.=A0

Tuesday June 11 Emergency String Quartet+Jesse Quattro+Heyl/Marsh Duo 8pm
$5-10

Kurt Heyl - trombone (from New Mexico)
Bob Marsh - cello and voice

Jessie Quattro - solo voice

Emergency String Quartet - improvisations

Composer and multi-intrumentalist, Bob Marsh performs regularly on violin,
cello, piano, vibraphone, flute, and uses extended vocal techniques. He is
the founder of the Quintessentials, the Emergency String Quartet and the
Emergency Piano Quintet. Trombone player, Kurt Heyl, hails from New Mexico.
Jesse Quattro, vocalist, electronic processor and is the featured vocalist
of the thrash metal group Saint of Killers and an active member of the Mill=
s
College Contemporary Performance Ensemble.





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<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>This week at 21 Grand</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<FONT FACE=3D"Times New Roman"><B>This Week at 21 Grand<BR>
</B></FONT>21 Grand is a multi-disciplinary arts space located at 449B 23rd=
 St. (between Broadway and Telegraph) in Oakland.<BR>
21grand@onebox.com<BR>
(510) 444-7263 <BR>
<FONT FACE=3D"Times New Roman"><B><BR>
Thanks to everyone who came out for our art sale and those generous artists=
 who donated work!<BR>
<BR>
Friday, June 7 &quot;Deus est Machina (God is Machine)&quot; Nicedisc+Sleep=
ing+Organoff 8:30PM $5-10<BR>
</B><BR>
Local group, Sleeping creates progressive electronica with electronic rhyth=
m tracks with keyboard loops, toys, samplers, a host of unholy devices, plus=
 a DJ, and the frankenstein monster of guitars, the Chapman Stick. Sleeping =
incorporates video projection into their mainly improvised compositions rang=
ing from free form to pop influenced pieces. Their influences range from Rob=
ert Fripp to Negativland to Laurie Anderson.<BR>
<BR>
Nicedisc is a New York City laptop band from the f-matic collective. They w=
ill be bringing their mobile unit (dr. VHS and tapedeck) to preach the gospe=
l of pixels and low-fi electronic noise.<BR>
<BR>
Organoff is an improvised, interactive performance involving organs and &qu=
ot;prepared guitars&quot; and spontaneous composition of soundtracks to vide=
o, conceived of by Jon Brumit.<BR>
<BR>
<B>Saturday June 8 Artists' Reception for Symptom &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;7- 11PM=
 free <BR>
</B><BR>
This reception is happening in tandem with receptions at Door.7 and Ego Par=
k, two art galleries within a block radius of 21Grand, forming the 23rd and =
Telegraph Art Nexus. <BR>
<BR>
SYMPTOM<BR>
<BR>
>From June 6 to June 30, 21Grand presents =B3Symptom=B2: a two-person exhibition=
 of=A0 recent paintings by Narangkar Khalsa and recent photographs by Stephani=
e Dean. In this suite of work the two artists present their parallel views o=
f the civilized wastes and sarcastic scenarios that intrigue them. In an obs=
ervation tuned to the absurdly real, the two offer the sum of their explorat=
ions of urban life and common culture.=A0<BR>
<BR>
Themes that arise in the work of both artists are people, places, icons, an=
d humor. Above all, the most constant theme is that of the awe of discovery.=
 Through this approach to art, the two create new and disjuncted views of th=
e world - paintings that are creepy and morbid, and photos that are humorous=
ly disturbing. These two artists have created a relapse for the pedestrian v=
iewer in which he is compelled to digest mundane information rather than ign=
ore it.=A0<BR>
<BR>
<B>Tuesday June 11 Emergency String Quartet+Jesse Quattro+Heyl/Marsh Duo 8p=
m $5-10<BR>
</B><FONT SIZE=3D"5"><BR>
</FONT>Kurt Heyl - trombone (from New Mexico) <BR>
Bob Marsh - cello and voice <BR>
<BR>
Jessie Quattro - solo voice <BR>
<BR>
Emergency String Quartet - improvisations <BR>
<BR>
Composer and multi-intrumentalist, Bob Marsh performs regularly on violin, =
cello, piano, vibraphone, flute, and uses extended vocal techniques. He is t=
he founder of the Quintessentials, the Emergency String Quartet and the Emer=
gency Piano Quintet. Trombone player, Kurt Heyl, hails from New Mexico. Jess=
e Quattro, vocalist, electronic processor and is the featured vocalist of th=
e thrash metal group Saint of Killers and an active member of the Mills Coll=
ege Contemporary Performance Ensemble. <BR>
</FONT><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</BODY>
</HTML>


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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun  6 17:13:35 2002
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From: Keith Kotay <kotay@stilton.cs.dartmouth.edu>
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Subject: Re: DL4 Question
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 17:12:08 -0400 (EDT)
In-Reply-To: <006e01c20d66$4c81b770$0bf8c440@g0wn7> from "Jimmy Fowler" at Jun 06, 2002 03:27:32 PM
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> 
> for practicing purposes...even a little live playing...i would try the akai
> headrush.
> 
> it won't enter overdub mode until you hit "overdub".  it's affordable
> (probably around 140 used) and easy to operate.
> 
> i used one for a year before i "graduated" to the edp, which blows the akai
> away (needless to say), but for what you've described, the akai would be a
> wise investment.
> 
> -jim
> 
Hi Jim,

I've considered the Headrush, but I was put off by the 11.9 second loop 
time when overdubbing.  It amazes me that Akai made the decision to halve 
the overdub loop time in order to support undo.  I guess some people like 
the undo feature, but there are plenty of others I'm sure (like me) who 
would prefer the 23.8 loop time with overdubbing at the expense of the undo 
function.  Even better would be a switch which would allow the user to 
decide between undo and the longer loop time w/ overdub.  At the cost of 50 
cents for a switch, Akai probably could have sold a lot more units!  Also, 
I like the idea that the DL4 has true bypass, and that the DL4 has good 
delay effects that I could still use even if I later got a more capable 
looper.  Actually, the Echo Pro seems to me to be a nice unit: 60 sec.
loop time + MIDI control + nice delays, but it's $500 and then you still
need a MIDI controller for $100+.  That's a bit much for me right now... 

Thanks,

Keith

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Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 17:56:38 EDT
Subject: Re: Turntablist Guitar (Parts 1 and 2)
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Andre! Andre! Andre! 

I just spent most of the afternoon downloading 
and listening to your latest batch of truly beautiful 
and whacked out MP3s. I must say, you've really 
outdone yourself this time. My goodness! These 
tracks are wonderful. I don't know whether to 
be inspired to woodshed or simply give up. Thanks 
for letting us listen. You are amazing! Any chance 
you'd consider giving a seminar sometime! Wow. 
This stuff is so jaw-droppingly good it's stupefying.

Best,

Ted




From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun  6 18:34:12 2002
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Subject: Re: DL4 Question
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 17:31:09 +0100
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yeah, the headrush is limited in a lot of ways, namely loop-length.  it is a
good cheap practice tool and actually sounds good enough to perform with on
stage.

if you think you're going to stick with looping and use it for more than
just practice, you might want to consider going ahead and investing in one
of the bigger toys.  but that might be overkill for the time being.

in my opinion, the boomerang is ridiculously expensive for what it does.
for an extra bill or two, you can get the edp and the footcontroller.

so that leaves one with only a few viable options.  the dl4, headrush, rptr,
and edp.  hope i didn't leave anybody out.

-jim




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In a message dated 6/6/02 4:04:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
kotay@stilton.cs.dartmouth.edu writes:


> I'm a recreational guitar player looking
> to get some looping hardware, mostly to practice solos over
> looped chords (although from what I understand it's easy to
> become addicted to looping ;-).

keith.....give the BOOMERANG + a looksee and yes! you will become 
addicted.....michael

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 6/6/02 4:04:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kotay@stilton.cs.dartmouth.edu writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I'm a recreational guitar player looking<BR>
to get some looping hardware, mostly to practice solos over<BR>
looped chords (although from what I understand it's easy to<BR>
become addicted to looping ;-).</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
keith.....give the BOOMERANG + a looksee and yes! you will become addicted.....michael</FONT></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun  6 19:08:52 2002
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Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 16:07:12 -0700
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: Dave Trenkel <improv@peak.org>
Subject: Re: Turntablist Guitar (Parts 1 and 2)
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>Andre! Andre! Andre!
>
>I just spent most of the afternoon downloading
>and listening to your latest batch of truly beautiful
>and whacked out MP3s. I must say, you've really
>outdone yourself this time. My goodness! These
>tracks are wonderful. I don't know whether to
>be inspired to woodshed or simply give up. Thanks
>for letting us listen. You are amazing! Any chance
>you'd consider giving a seminar sometime! Wow.
>This stuff is so jaw-droppingly good it's stupefying.
>
ABSOLUTELY AGREED! I've spent way too much time today glued to the 
computer and your amazing mp3's. Your use of the EDP is simply 
astounding. Great work, keep it up, you're raising the bar for 
loopers everywhere.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Trenkel                                New and Improv Music
http://www.newandimprov.com         improv@peak.org
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun  6 19:26:37 2002
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Message-Id: <200206062324.XAA72800@stilton.cs.dartmouth.edu>
Subject: Re: DL4 Question
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 19:24:48 -0400 (EDT)
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> 
> 
> keith.....give the BOOMERANG + a looksee and yes! you will become 
> addicted.....michael
Hi Michael,

I considered the Boomerang for a while, but I don't like the 24kHz
sampling rate.  I have a Zoom PS02 which samples at 32kHz and that
sounds okay, but I'd hate to go lower...  From what I understand,
the Boomerang originally had a *lower* rate--what were they thinking?
Unfortunately, it seems everything I look at has a serious drawback 
except for the "big boys" and they have the biggest drawback of all:
$$$.  Maybe at this point it would be best to get the cheapest thing
(Headrush) and get something better when I can afford it...

Thanks,

Keith

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun  6 19:27:16 2002
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Date: Thu,  6 Jun 2002 16:25:40 -0700
From: Greg Kucharo <telecaster@mac.com>
Subject: Re: Turntablist Guitar (Parts 1 and 2)
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  It was crap!
  
  
  Thheehhe. Sorry, we can't let Andre get too big a ego.
  
  Actually, I really liked them. I still think Asana from the other day
was great stuff. Now I reallly want the LoopIV upgrade.



on 6/6/02 Dave Trenkel wrote:

>>Andre! Andre! Andre!
>>
>>I just spent most of the afternoon downloading
>>and listening to your latest batch of truly beautiful
>>and whacked out MP3s. I must say, you've really
>>outdone yourself this time. My goodness! These
>>tracks are wonderful. I don't know whether to
>>be inspired to woodshed or simply give up. Thanks
>>for letting us listen. You are amazing! Any chance
>>you'd consider giving a seminar sometime! Wow.
>>This stuff is so jaw-droppingly good it's stupefying.
>>
>ABSOLUTELY AGREED! I've spent way too much time today glued to the 
>computer and your amazing mp3's. Your use of the EDP is simply 
>astounding. Great work, keep it up, you're raising the bar for 
>loopers everywhere.
>-- 
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>-
>Dave Trenkel                                New and Improv Music
>http://www.newandimprov.com         improv@peak.org
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>-
>
------------------------------------------
Greg Kucharo-                                 
www.mutantaudio.com


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun  6 19:54:06 2002
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Thanks to the Oregon posse for the absurdly kind words, and to Mr.
Kucharo for the reality check.  :)

I'm curious, Greg, as to what it was about "Asana" in particular that
you liked.  Another fellow mailed me and singled that one out as his
favorite as well, and I'm curious as to what grabbed you about it, since
it's probably the most unlike the other tracks from this week.  (I've
got a couple of guesses, but I want to hear what you think first.)

I already hear things I can improve on in the latest material, and I'm
constantly trying to re-evaluate how I approach this stuff, so any
commentary on this is extremely helpful to me.

Thanks again for listening!

--Andre LaFosse
http://www.altruistmusic.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun  6 20:00:55 2002
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Subject: Re: Turntablist Guitar (Parts 1 and 2)
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 Hrm...
 
 I'm not exactly sure, it just seems to be the one that sticks with me
the most out of the bunch. Asana has some great melodic interactions
between the loops that's really interesting. I can't quite put my finger
on it...

-Greg
 
 
on 6/6/02 Andre LaFosse wrote:


>
>I'm curious, Greg, as to what it was about "Asana" in particular that
>you liked.  Another fellow mailed me and singled that one out as his
>favorite as well, and I'm curious as to what grabbed you about it,
since
>it's probably the most unlike the other tracks from this week.  (I've
>got a couple of guesses, but I want to hear what you think first.)
>
>I already hear things I can improve on in the latest material, and I'm
>constantly trying to re-evaluate how I approach this stuff, so any
>commentary on this is extremely helpful to me.
>
>Thanks again for listening!
>
>--Andre LaFosse
>http://www.altruistmusic.com
>
------------------------------------------
Greg Kucharo-                                 
www.mutantaudio.com


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun  6 20:29:51 2002
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  Just listening to again now..it has all this really cool bending work
going on, and it all seems to hang together beautifully without stepping
on each other. I just keep running the little hooks in my head all the
time. The song is just chocked full of em.

-Greg


on 6/6/02 Greg Kucharo wrote:

> Hrm...
> 
> I'm not exactly sure, it just seems to be the one that sticks with me
>the most out of the bunch. Asana has some great melodic interactions
>between the loops that's really interesting. I can't quite put my
finger
>on it...
>
>-Greg
> 
> 
>on 6/6/02 Andre LaFosse wrote:
>
>
>>
>>I'm curious, Greg, as to what it was about "Asana" in particular that
>>you liked.  Another fellow mailed me and singled that one out as his
>>favorite as well, and I'm curious as to what grabbed you about it,
>since
>>it's probably the most unlike the other tracks from this week.  (I've
>>got a couple of guesses, but I want to hear what you think first.)
>>
>>I already hear things I can improve on in the latest material, and I'm
>>constantly trying to re-evaluate how I approach this stuff, so any
>>commentary on this is extremely helpful to me.
>>
>>Thanks again for listening!
>>
>>--Andre LaFosse
>>http://www.altruistmusic.com
>>
>------------------------------------------
>Greg Kucharo-                                 
>www.mutantaudio.com
>
>
------------------------------------------
Greg Kucharo-                                 
www.mutantaudio.com


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun  6 20:59:31 2002
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To: "Loopers-Delight @ loopers-delight . com"
    <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 10:57:39 +1000
Subject: Re: Re: DL4 Question
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I'm considering a 2nd DL4, as i just forked out the cash for a new
Gibson EchoPlex, got i home and was very noisey where ever it was
in the signal chain. I was disapointed! The greatest looping divice, but i
don't need the noise, so i took it back! I'm Heading towards a Repeater? 
 At least the DL4 is totally silent. 



> Keith Kotay <kotay@stilton.cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > for practicing purposes...even a little live playing...i would try
> the akai
> > headrush.
> > 
> > it won't enter overdub mode until you hit "overdub".  it's
> affordable
> > (probably around 140 used) and easy to operate.
> > 
> > i used one for a year before i "graduated" to the edp, which blows
> the akai
> > away (needless to say), but for what you've described, the akai
> would be a
> > wise investment.
> > 
> > -jim
> > 
> Hi Jim,
> 
> I've considered the Headrush, but I was put off by the 11.9 second
> loop 
> time when overdubbing.  It amazes me that Akai made the decision to
> halve 
> the overdub loop time in order to support undo.  I guess some people
> like 
> the undo feature, but there are plenty of others I'm sure (like me)
> who 
> would prefer the 23.8 loop time with overdubbing at the expense of
> the undo 
> function.  Even better would be a switch which would allow the user
> to 
> decide between undo and the longer loop time w/ overdub.  At the cost
> of 50 
> cents for a switch, Akai probably could have sold a lot more units! 
> Also, 
> I like the idea that the DL4 has true bypass, and that the DL4 has
> good 
> delay effects that I could still use even if I later got a more
> capable 
> looper.  Actually, the Echo Pro seems to me to be a nice unit: 60
> sec.
> loop time + MIDI control + nice delays, but it's $500 and then you
> still
> need a MIDI controller for $100+.  That's a bit much for me right
> now... 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Keith
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun  6 21:07:26 2002
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!!! Are you sure?  I've heard so many performances and recordings using the
Echoplex and it always sounds prestine to me.  I can't imagine a footpedal
has near the s/n specs.  The Repeater is quiet, but you have to remember it's
a LINE level device, and should NOT be put in front of a guitar amplifier.
If it's got a stereo line effects loop, that should be fine.  If it's in a
mixer's effects send/loop, that's good too, just not anywhere where it will
see an instrument (like guitar, keyboards are OK) or mic level amp.  It does
however have an instrument level in, which is where a lot of confusion lies.


Mark Sottilaro

c.jas@optusnet.com.au wrote:

> I'm considering a 2nd DL4, as i just forked out the cash for a new
> Gibson EchoPlex, got i home and was very noisey where ever it was
> in the signal chain. I was disapointed! The greatest looping divice, but i
> don't need the noise, so i took it back! I'm Heading towards a Repeater?
>  At least the DL4 is totally silent.
>
> > Keith Kotay <kotay@stilton.cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > for practicing purposes...even a little live playing...i would try
> > the akai
> > > headrush.
> > >
> > > it won't enter overdub mode until you hit "overdub".  it's
> > affordable
> > > (probably around 140 used) and easy to operate.
> > >
> > > i used one for a year before i "graduated" to the edp, which blows
> > the akai
> > > away (needless to say), but for what you've described, the akai
> > would be a
> > > wise investment.
> > >
> > > -jim
> > >
> > Hi Jim,
> >
> > I've considered the Headrush, but I was put off by the 11.9 second
> > loop
> > time when overdubbing.  It amazes me that Akai made the decision to
> > halve
> > the overdub loop time in order to support undo.  I guess some people
> > like
> > the undo feature, but there are plenty of others I'm sure (like me)
> > who
> > would prefer the 23.8 loop time with overdubbing at the expense of
> > the undo
> > function.  Even better would be a switch which would allow the user
> > to
> > decide between undo and the longer loop time w/ overdub.  At the cost
> > of 50
> > cents for a switch, Akai probably could have sold a lot more units!
> > Also,
> > I like the idea that the DL4 has true bypass, and that the DL4 has
> > good
> > delay effects that I could still use even if I later got a more
> > capable
> > looper.  Actually, the Echo Pro seems to me to be a nice unit: 60
> > sec.
> > loop time + MIDI control + nice delays, but it's $500 and then you
> > still
> > need a MIDI controller for $100+.  That's a bit much for me right
> > now...
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Keith
> >

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun  6 21:31:22 2002
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the first boomerang was VERY noisy.  a friend of mine got one within months
of it being released and i was not impressed at all regarding sound quality.
cool features, but i don't understand how anybody could need 4 minutes of
recording time....that's just me, i suppose.

-jim


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun  6 21:32:39 2002
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if the edp was noisy, i'd wager that something wasn't connected correctly/in
the right place/etc.

-jim


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun  6 22:18:15 2002
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>>"i don't understand how anybody could need 4 minutes of
recording time....that's just me, i suppose."<<

Live, sometimes, I'll lay down an initial loop of 30 - 60 seconds and then
build odd structures throughout it...stacking layers of ambient washes,
percussive things, melodic shards, effects, samples, etc., all inside the
larger edifice.  I wish my Rang had a few more min. in it.

ie
http://kronosonic.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jimmy Fowler" <jimfowler@prodigy.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 7:27 PM
Subject: Re: DL4 Question


> the first boomerang was VERY noisy.  a friend of mine got one within
months
> of it being released and i was not impressed at all regarding sound
quality.
> cool features, but i don't understand how anybody could need 4 minutes of
> recording time....that's just me, i suppose.
>
> -jim
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun  6 22:31:18 2002
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Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 22:30:46 -0400
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From: Scott McGregor Moore <scott@dreamstate.to>
Subject: Re: DL4 Question
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At 03:27 PM 6/6/2002, you wrote:
>the first boomerang was VERY noisy.  a friend of mine got one within months
>of it being released and i was not impressed at all regarding sound quality.
>cool features, but i don't understand how anybody could need 4 minutes of
>recording time....that's just me, i suppose.
>
>-jim


Even if you don't want really long loops,
the extra time in the EDP gives you multiple levels
of undo or storage of multiple loops. It's great to have.

Cheers,
Scott M2

http://www.dreamSTATE.to
ambientelectronicsoundscapes
http://www.THEAMBiENTPiNG.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun  7 00:01:12 2002
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Subject: Re: Turntablist Guitar (Parts 1 and 2)
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Where is Asana on the website, andre?

Todd

On 6/6/02 7:25 PM, "Greg Kucharo" <telecaster@mac.com> wrote:

> It was crap!
> 
> 
> Thheehhe. Sorry, we can't let Andre get too big a ego.
> 
> Actually, I really liked them. I still think Asana from the other day
> was great stuff. Now I reallly want the LoopIV upgrade.
> 
> 
> 
> on 6/6/02 Dave Trenkel wrote:
> 
>>> Andre! Andre! Andre!
>>> 
>>> I just spent most of the afternoon downloading
>>> and listening to your latest batch of truly beautiful
>>> and whacked out MP3s. I must say, you've really
>>> outdone yourself this time. My goodness! These
>>> tracks are wonderful. I don't know whether to
>>> be inspired to woodshed or simply give up. Thanks
>>> for letting us listen. You are amazing! Any chance
>>> you'd consider giving a seminar sometime! Wow.
>>> This stuff is so jaw-droppingly good it's stupefying.
>>> 
>> ABSOLUTELY AGREED! I've spent way too much time today glued to the
>> computer and your amazing mp3's. Your use of the EDP is simply
>> astounding. Great work, keep it up, you're raising the bar for
>> loopers everywhere.
>> -- 
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
>> -
>> Dave Trenkel                                New and Improv Music
>> http://www.newandimprov.com         improv@peak.org
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
>> -
>> 
> ------------------------------------------
> Greg Kucharo-    
> www.mutantaudio.com
> 
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun  7 00:05:17 2002
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Subject: Re: DL4 Question
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 23:02:23 +0100
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yeah, i forgot that memory and minutes are virtually the same.  higher
memory is a real treat when speaking of "undo"ing things in the edp.

ok, so big memory is rad.

-jim


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun  7 00:16:31 2002
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From: "Rick Walker/Loop.pooL" <GLOBAL@cruzio.com>
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Subject: My favorite inexpensive LOOPER and why
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 21:14:35 -0700
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in answer to all this talk about buying an initial inexpensive looper
I'd like to add my two cents in:

I have owned three Lexicon Jammans, an Electrix REPEATER (I'm in love!!) and
two LINE 6 DL4s
and have been self conciously considering myself a looping artist for over
ten years, so I've had a chance
to try out several units.

The DL-4 is an amazing instrument...........it still does things on the fly
that the repeater can't do
(specifically doubling/halving/forward/reverse) WITH the addition of digital
delays that can be
controlled with one's foot by an expression pedal.

It also has amongst the best fidelity of all the loopers on the market (with
better fidelity than even the
amazing EDP, from what I understand)...........the EDP, by the way, is next
on my wish list, primarily because
of the amazing 'chop up' work I have heard Andre LaFosse to on it.

I think the DL-4 is by far and away the best cheap looper on the market.

If it had midi-syncability (shame, shame on LINE 6 for not adding this to
the Echo PRO!!)
I would have died and gone to heaven.

All kudos to the Boomerang, the Headrush and the Boss Loopstation, but I
would much rather own
a DL-4.

yours,  Rick Walker (loop.pool)

PS
None of this should be considered a dis on the BOOMERANG, HEADRUSH,
LOOPSTATION or EDP.
Please don't start a flame war over this one.................

Instead, if you disagree,  why don't you send a love letter describing the
joys of your favorite looper to the list?

What does it do that you think kicks ass on the competition?   Etc..........


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun  7 00:23:43 2002
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From: Chris Richards <kohntarkosz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Line 6 DL 4
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No, you can overdub anytime with the DL4. If you
want to record an overdub, just hit the record
button. It's all pretty self explanatory. For the
price one pays for the DL4, you can a truly
excellent piece of gear. I eventually ended up
getting a Boomerang, because the echo effect that
is available when you're looping on the DL4
doesn't sound anywhere near as good as the analog
and tape delay emulations it does. 

If you want something solely for the purposes of
woodshedding, the DL4 will probably do it. Later,
if you decide you want to use looping in your
music, you can get a Boomerang or Echoplex
Digital Pro or whatever, and just use the DL-4
for delay related effects (which is REALLY where
it shines, as far as I'm concerned). 

=====
May you never thirst!
The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris

"What do you get when you give a yo-yo to a flock of flamingos?"-James Earl Jones

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun  7 00:52:13 2002
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Subject: Re: My favorite inexpensive LOOPER and why
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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> 
> I think the DL-4 is by far and away the best cheap looper on the market.
> 
Hi Rick,

Thanks for the comments!  Based on my research I found the DL4
to be my first choice for a 'cheap' looper, there are some
things about it that make me want to get something better.

> If it had midi-syncability (shame, shame on LINE 6 for not adding this to
> the Echo PRO!!)
> I would have died and gone to heaven.
> 
When you say MIDI-sync you mean keeping the loop synced to a
MIDI message, right?  I think the Echo Pro has a 'play once'
MIDI message--equivalent to the 'play once' switch on the DL4.
If you kept emitting 'play once' MIDI messages from a sequencer, 
wouldn't that essentially be syncing the Echo Pro?  Correct me 
if I'm wrong...

Thanks,

Keith

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun  7 01:20:27 2002
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Subject: Re: Line 6 DL 4
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In-Reply-To: <20020607042220.94356.qmail@web12304.mail.yahoo.com> from "Chris Richards" at Jun 06, 2002 09:22:20 PM
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Hi Chris,

> No, you can overdub anytime with the DL4. If you
> want to record an overdub, just hit the record
> button. It's all pretty self explanatory.
> 
I guess I'm confused.  This is what the manual says:

Press [record/overdub] to start Recording (light comes on solid).  
If you press this switch a second time while recording, the 
recording will finish, loop playback will immediately begin, and 
you'll be in Overdub mode (light flashes).

So if I press record, record a loop, and then press play/stop 
recording stops and loop playback begins.  If I then press record 
it seems to me that I would be starting the recording of a new
loop, not overdubbinhg on top of the playing loop.  At least
that's what I'm getting from the manual.  Of course, I don't
have a real DL4 here to play with which is why I'm asking you 
guys...

Thanks,

Keith

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun  7 01:28:40 2002
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Hey there Todd,

I don't have website links to the new stuff, but here are the URLs:

http://loopers-delight.com/LDarchive/200206/msg00104.html

http://loopers-delight.com/LDarchive/200206/msg00232.html

Asana is the first link in the first post.

How did your Etudes go?  Were you able to get the EDP to do what you
wanted?  And can we hear the stuff any time soon?

C ya,

--Andre

todd reynolds wrote:
> 
> Where is Asana on the website, andre?
> 
> Todd

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Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 09:48:40 +0100
Subject: DL4 question? 
From: Steve Lawson <steve@steve-lawson.co.uk>
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>>>
My question is about the Line 6 DL4.  From what I get out of
the manual, it appears that the only way to enter overdub mode
is from record mode.  Therefore it seems like it is impossible
to do the following: 1) record a loop, 2) play along with it
to try different ideas, and 3) once you've developed a good
overdub part to then overdub it with the current loop.  This
seems like a serious shortcoming to me.  Am I correct?<<<

what you've describe is quite possible on the DL4, it's a basic function of
it - hit record with button 1 (from the left), come out of the loop with
button 2 (stop recording start looping) play over it, go back into record
over the loop with button 1, out again with button 1 etc...

no problem there, the DL4 is a remarkably versatile box - ignore the manual
and just mess with it, and see what you can come up with. As a bit of a
commercial plug (from me? never!) my latest album, with pianist Jez Carr is
a set of real time free improvisations, on which I'm only using the DL4 -
all the delays/strange noises/squeaks 'n' squawks/good ole fashioned looping
stuff is from the DL4, in real time...

cheers

Steve 
www.steve-lawson.co.uk
www.pillowmountainrecords.co.uk 

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Subject: re: looping is overrated
From: Steve Lawson <steve@steve-lawson.co.uk>
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some very interesting stuff on the nature of 'loop music' and whether or not
such a term has any validity...

For me, a few things seem to come to mind in this discussion - obviously,
looping has no inherent melodic, harmonic or rhythmic specification, and as
such places no strict stylistic boundaries in any of those three areas. And
as those are the three main criteria for the majority of musical
classification, looping is as broad as musical classification can be, at
least as far as the casual listener is concerned.

However, what it means to me as a musician is a bit more fundamental, as
it's about 'sound' - which is even more fundamental (can something be more
fundamental? does that just mean that the other things aren't actually
fundamental at all???) whatever, looping allows me to think in terms of
layers - rather than just thinking 'backing track/soloing', which is where I
started with this stuff years ago, it's no a compositional process that uses
recorded sound blocks as either notes or samples to be triggered, processed,
faded in and out, reversed added to, extracted from etc. etc. the physical
possibilities of looping for a single musician are SOOOOOOOOO much wider
than for a solo artist just playing their instrument... I wouldn't even
dream of playing 6 string fretless as a solo instrument without looping, as
the technical focus, and the emphasis on notes is just not what I'm
interested at all - the textural aspect gets nigh on impossible. So
sonically I'm very liberated by looping. Whether or not the listener is
aware of that is largely irrelavent - from a gig perspective it's great as
it adds a very visual element; one guy playing bigbig sounds on a bass - but
on CD it's either good music or it isn't. I don't play 'loop' music any more
than I play 'bass' music - even though both exert a huge influence on what I
do. 

Beyond that, I do think that for me as a listener there is some sort of
continuity of concept in loop based music, that of the repetitions making
abstract music much more accessible - Andre's cut 'n' paste stuff is way way
way more 'poppy' than say Derek Bailey, and a lot of that is the repetition
giving the listen a chance to get aquainted with each musical idea and hear
it develop, morph and disappear into the ether... I get away with playing
some pretty odd harmonies to audiences who wouldn't usually listen to stuff
like that, because of the loop element giving them a handle on the
journey... 

Looping also allows me to juxtapose ideas in a way that is a bit more chance
based - set up a loop, play some stuff which is then reversed and
double-speeded on the DL4 and played over whatever is going on. I haven't
reached a point where I can think backwards, so backwards is always a bit
random, and the slightly haphazard triggering process on the DL4 means that
it'd be very difficult to get things to match up rhythmically in a
controlled way... so I don't even try... :o) rhythmic clashes, dual textures
overlapping out of sync, post processing of a loop, using feedback to cross
fade - all that geeky technical shit has a massive impact on the music I
make, regardless of whether the audience knows it or not, but stylistically
what is it? the loops aren't what defines my influences as jazz or folk or
ambient or ECM or whatever - that's the harmonies, melodies and rhythms -
the loops are just a vehicle for me to be able to soundtrack the inside of
my head without any other musicians messing it up... :o)

I've discovered some fantastic musicians/improvisors/composers on this list
- all of whom are great in spite of the loops - Rick Walker and Andre
LaFosse in particular have both has a big impact on my music, especially
through the many conversations we've had around the subject, and by playing
with them. I've nicked ideas from both of them and incorporated them into
what I do without turning into a day-glo toys 'n' found sound experimenter
or EDP/FSU guitar jedi - technical and conceptual influence that is then
recontextualised in my own harmonic/sonic paradigm.

looping is the great paradox - of both great importance and utterly
frivolous at the same time... :o)

cheers

Steve 
www.steve-lawson.co.uk
www.pillowmountainrecords.co.uk 

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On Friday, June 7, 2002, at 07:16 AM, Keith Kotay wrote:

> So if I press record, record a loop, and then press play/stop
> recording stops and loop playback begins.  If I then press record
> it seems to me that I would be starting the recording of a new
> loop, not overdubbinhg on top of the playing loop.  At least
> that's what I'm getting from the manual.  Of course, I don't
> have a real DL4 here to play with which is why I'm asking you
> guys...

Its pretty simple: if you press record and the loop is not actually 
playing, you will record a completely new loop, and the old loop is 
lost. If you press record whilst the loop is playing, then you go into 
overdub mode.

--
Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
http://www.solostring.com
stuart@solostring.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun  7 05:17:21 2002
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Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 10:15:07 +0100
Subject: all hail the DL4
From: Steve Lawson <steve@steve-lawson.co.uk>
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>>>
The DL-4 is an amazing instrument...........it still does things on the fly
that the repeater can't do
(specifically doubling/halving/forward/reverse) WITH the addition of digital
delays that can be
controlled with one's foot by an expression pedal.<<<

I too love the DL4 - in conjunction with an EDP and my MPX-G2, it's
incredible - certainly not something I'd get rid of... I may be removing the
JamMan from my regular rack (keeping it, but just not carrying it around all
the time)...

Rick's work with 2 DL4s is fantastic - definitely makes me lust after a
second one... 

a word of warning though, if Richard Zvonar approaches the stage with shoes
in hand, hide your pedals... :o)

Steve 
www.steve-lawson.co.uk
www.pillowmountainrecords.co.uk 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun  7 05:28:54 2002
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On Friday, June 7, 2002, at 06:14 AM, Rick Walker/Loop.pooL wrote:
> I think the DL-4 is by far and away the best cheap looper on the market

Seconded! :)

Also, as they've been on the market for a couple of years, you can 
probably find one for a good second hand price if you dig deep enough. I 
would love to purchase another DL4 for my street setup - Most people 
overlook the potential of the delay emulations that are included in the 
unit (14 in total), and just concentrate on the amazing looping features.

Also, for me, the 30 hour battery life is a godsend.
--
Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
http://www.solostring.com
stuart@solostring.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun  7 05:38:23 2002
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References: <9a.268e65f6.2a313496@aol.com> <a05100300b9259ad2e4a8@[206.163.94.68]>
Subject: Ahem!  Excuse me!
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 10:36:18 +0100
Organization: EarthLight Productions
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Sorry to break up all this about the DL4, but I noticed in an article in
London TimeOut - an interview with David Bowie - that on his new release,
"Heathen", our own David Torn is playing what is probably lead guitar!

Congratulations, DT!

Stephen P. Goodman
EarthLight Productions
*
http://www.earthlight.net/Studios - The Free Loop of the Week!
http://www.earthlight.net/Gallery_Front.html - Cartoons!
http://www.earthlight.net/HiddenTrack.html - More Cartoons!

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun  7 05:59:56 2002
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Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 11:56:18 +0200
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Subject: Film music stuff
From: Stuart Wyatt <stuart@solostring.com>
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Hi guys,

I'm not sure if this is the list to put m begging letter on, but there 
seems to be a lot of 'people in the know' with contacts on here:

Basically, I'm searching for a film score commission. My music up to 
date has been very ambient/emotive and melancholic, and many people have 
written to me to say that it would be ideal for film music. I think that 
it is the direction that I would like to go with the project, and 
currently, I could really do with some sort of injection of cash other 
than what I make on the street....

...so the question is, do any of you know of a few places where I can 
approach people (preferably online - its more pragmatic) to pimp my 
services? Can anyone put in a good word for me?

</beg>

Thanks :)
--
Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
http://www.solostring.com
stuart@solostring.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun  7 06:06:17 2002
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References: <D03F88D0-79FC-11D6-8FC8-0003934B4712@solostring.com>
Subject: Re: Film music stuff
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 11:04:50 +0100
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One nice place to post your wares and know that someone in film listens, is
FFCoppola's American Zoetrope at http://www.zoetrope.com - It's a
collaborative-review approach, where, once you've listened to and reviewed
2-4 pieces by others, you can post yours and get reviewed in the same way.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stuart Wyatt" <stuart@solostring.com>
To: <loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 10:56 AM
Subject: Film music stuff


> Hi guys,
>
> I'm not sure if this is the list to put m begging letter on, but there
> seems to be a lot of 'people in the know' with contacts on here:
>
> Basically, I'm searching for a film score commission. My music up to
> date has been very ambient/emotive and melancholic, and many people have
> written to me to say that it would be ideal for film music. I think that
> it is the direction that I would like to go with the project, and
> currently, I could really do with some sort of injection of cash other
> than what I make on the street....
>
> ...so the question is, do any of you know of a few places where I can
> approach people (preferably online - its more pragmatic) to pimp my
> services? Can anyone put in a good word for me?
>
> </beg>
>
> Thanks :)
> --
> Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
> http://www.solostring.com
> stuart@solostring.com
>
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun  7 08:03:34 2002
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Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 08:03:08 -0400
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: Scott McGregor Moore <scott@dreamstate.to>
Subject: Re: Ahem!  Excuse me!
In-Reply-To: <003101c20e06$c7ad2100$0201a8c0@eluk>
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 <a05100300b9259ad2e4a8@[206.163.94.68]>
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At 05:36 AM 6/7/2002, you wrote:
>Sorry to break up all this about the DL4, but I noticed in an article in
>London TimeOut - an interview with David Bowie - that on his new release,
>"Heathen", our own David Torn is playing what is probably lead guitar!
>
>Congratulations, DT!
>
>Stephen P. Goodman

I have a (ahem) theory about Bowie albums:
The quality of the album is directly related to
the featured guitarist on the album.
(ie - Frampton vs Fripp)
So this is very good news indeed!

(OK - the producer just MAY have something
to do with it too. )  ;o)

Cheers,
Scott M2

http://www.dreamSTATE.to
ambientelectronicsoundscapes
http://www.THEAMBiENTPiNG.com


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun  7 09:50:58 2002
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Subject: Re: Ahem!  Excuse me!
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Ahem! If I remember correctly David already told us something 'bout this
some months ago... And I'm waiting for the DB album with DT since then...
P.S. Has someone been able to record or listen completely to the full
performance of DT on www.kcrw.com internet radio? I've tried to listen to
the full performance, but the internet here in Italy is a bit messy for what
regards telephone lines, and even if I have a dsl connection I've been able
to hear just the first 10 minutes of the performance (maybe the problem is
also in the RealAudio format... dunno), then the connection crashes.

Peace
Luigi
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott McGregor Moore" <scott@dreamstate.to>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: Ahem! Excuse me!


> At 05:36 AM 6/7/2002, you wrote:
> >Sorry to break up all this about the DL4, but I noticed in an article in
> >London TimeOut - an interview with David Bowie - that on his new release,
> >"Heathen", our own David Torn is playing what is probably lead guitar!
> >
> >Congratulations, DT!
> >
> >Stephen P. Goodman
>
> I have a (ahem) theory about Bowie albums:
> The quality of the album is directly related to
> the featured guitarist on the album.
> (ie - Frampton vs Fripp)
> So this is very good news indeed!
>
> (OK - the producer just MAY have something
> to do with it too. )  ;o)
>
> Cheers,
> Scott M2
>
> http://www.dreamSTATE.to
> ambientelectronicsoundscapes
> http://www.THEAMBiENTPiNG.com
>
>


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun  7 10:51:22 2002
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Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 07:49:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Greg House <ghunicycle@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Ahem!  Excuse me!
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--- Luigi Meloni <Luigimeloni74@libero.it> wrote:
> P.S. Has someone been able to record or listen completely to the full
> performance of DT on www.kcrw.com internet radio? 

I listened to the entire performance a couple of months ago without any
problems. I do believe it died on me once in the process and I had to
start over another day, but I did eventually hear the entire thing.

Greg

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun  7 12:27:09 2002
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in the album liner notes, mr. torn is credited with "guitar, guitar loops"
if memory serves.

i'm anticipating getting to check that one out.

-jim


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun  7 13:31:40 2002
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Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 18:31:54 -0000
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Just listening to part 1 - stunning stuff from the 'Dre-dude. Down-
homey EDP-mangling par-excellence, sir! 

now, you daft bastard, record a CD and make some money out of 
the damn stuff!!! :o) 

yours, feeling very inspired,

S'man (duuude)
www.steve-lawson.co.uk
www.pillowmountainrecords.co.uk 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun  7 14:47:38 2002
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Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 14:43:29 -0400 (EDT)
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> 
> On Friday, June 7, 2002, at 07:16 AM, Keith Kotay wrote:
> 
> > So if I press record, record a loop, and then press play/stop
> > recording stops and loop playback begins.  If I then press record
> > it seems to me that I would be starting the recording of a new
> > loop, not overdubbinhg on top of the playing loop.  At least
> > that's what I'm getting from the manual.  Of course, I don't
> > have a real DL4 here to play with which is why I'm asking you
> > guys...
> 
> Its pretty simple: if you press record and the loop is not actually 
> playing, you will record a completely new loop, and the old loop is 
> lost. If you press record whilst the loop is playing, then you go into 
> overdub mode.
> 
Hi Stuart,

Okay, I understand now!  That makes me a little less reluctant to get
a DL4...

Thanks,

Keith

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>so that leaves one with only a few viable options.  the dl4, headrush, 
> >rptr,
>and edp.  hope i didn't leave anybody out.

the boss rc-20 might fit the bill.



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Ditto.  What you are wanting to do should be more than possible with the
DL4.  I would vote for it over a Headrush to be honest.  Much more
versatility.  Just my 2 cents.

Tardy

> My question is about the Line 6 DL4.  From what I get out of
> the manual, it appears that the only way to enter overdub mode
> is from record mode.  Therefore it seems like it is impossible
> to do the following: 1) record a loop, 2) play along with it
> to try different ideas, and 3) once you've developed a good
> overdub part to then overdub it with the current loop.  This
> seems like a serious shortcoming to me.  Am I correct?<<<
>
> what you've describe is quite possible on the DL4, it's a basic function
of
> it

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** i used to have two headrushes, now i have two dl-4s . . . the dl-4s rock
for me. along with the eh 16-second delay, i can do some wiggy stuff (for me
at least). 

sl



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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>** i used to have two headrushes, now i have two dl-4s . =
. . the dl-4s rock for me. along with the eh 16-second delay, i can do some=
 wiggy stuff (for me at least). </FONT></P>

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Subject: Steve Lawson CD (was: Re: Unidentified subject!)
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In a message dated 6/7/02 10:29:32 AM, steve@steve-lawson.co.uk writes:

>now, you daft bastard, record a CD and make some money  
>out of the damn stuff!!! :o) 

Speaking of CDs Mr. Steve Lawson . . .

I've been meaning for a long time to tell you and the 
rest of the list just how wonderful I think your bass & 
piano duet CD "Conversations" (with Jez Carr) is . . .
and it truly, truly is too.

A mini review:

>From the beginning of the first track's languid fretless, 
grooving, melodicism it's a feast of inventive looping. 
Hey, and it's so lush and "pretty" that my wife doesn't 
even ask me to "please turn it down" -- which has got 
to be some kind of a first for a '"looping" CD.

Jez Carr's spare, pointalistic pianisms are the perfect 
compliment for what Steve offers. Which is a combination 
of lyrical bass that reminds me of the best of a Mark Eagan
or an Eberhard Weber, with some almost "Frisellian," skittering
loopsterizing weaving in and out from time to time.

Steve's use of loops are integral, organic, and essential 
to the proceedings too. They inject a lot of humor into 
what might have been something more like a chilly, ECM 
record without them. Not that ECM is a bad thing. Some 
of my favorite music is on ECM. But most of you may 
know what I mean.

Examples: after establishing the first track with a loooose
and laaaazy fretless groove Steve introduces twittering, 
backwards (and sped up) chipmunk bass noises in the middle 
so that it sounds like the duet has been visited (and joined) 
by a passing band of musical insects on a flyby. 

The second starts right out with a rhythmic figure of looped 
bass harmonic "pops and clicks" that reminds me of either 
Copland's "The Grand Canyon Suite" or the fellow with the 
coconuts who follows King Arthur around in "Monty  Python 
and The Holy Grail." In the middle of the same track, are 
some wonderfully "loopy" bass glissandi that sound for all 
the world like a theremin in a '50s B-horror film (think faux
spooky, haunted-house "ghost" sounds). Whacky huh? 

This not to say that this isn't serious music. It's just that this 
duo seems to be continually reminding us that they are ALSO 
having fun and don't take themselves TOO terribly seriously. 

The 3rd track is a brief (1:12) sensitive piano solo . . . no bass, 
no loops. Just a short interlude of very pretty piano. But, it also 
underscores the true spontaneousness of the improvisations 
going on elsewhere on the disc, for these ARE improvisations
in the truest sense. No studio editing "trickery." 

I could go on (and on) with each track but I think I've given 
a pretty good "gist" of what this disc is like. There aren't 
any cut's on this CD that are rollicking, uptempo, or show-offy -- 
though they definitely "groove" an percolate at times. The 
overall mood is a pretty consistent one -- of understated 
and sophisticated interplay -- with superb instrumental chops 
and communication which often verges on the telepathic --
with large doses of humor and grace.

Steve Lawson exhibits a very "organic" and creative use of 
live looping and real-time tweaking of effects that should 
be an example to any of us "loopfolk" . . . no matter what 
instrument we play. I can't say enough to recommend his CD
adequately. Just do yourself a favor and get it if you haven't 
already.

Best,

Ted Killian

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> 
> My suggestion would be to go with either a Repeater or a two Echoplexes if you're looking 
> to have the loops in synch with eachother.  I don't think there's another way to do this 
> right now.  Two DL4s would be OK, if you didn't need the loops to be synched.
> 
> Mark
> 
Mark,

I know this is a real neophyte question, but what properties are you trying
to maintain when two loopers are 'in sync'?  I assume that it means the
loops are triggered at the same time, every time.  Does loop length factor
in at all?  I mean, on the Echo Pro you can send a 'Play Once' MIDI message
to two units and that would trigger both loops at the same time (or very,
very close--I would imagine too close to hear).  As long as neither loop
was shorter than the 'Play Once' interval--and the musician recorded the
loops to the same beat--wouldn't they be in sync?

Sorry for asking things you guys take for granted,

Keith

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Reading that subject made me wonder if you'd just sneezed, Stephen.  :)

"Stephen P. Goodman" wrote:

> our own David Torn is playing what is probably lead guitar!
 
It is indeed "probably" lead guitar, but with Mr. Torn you never can
tell.  ;)

> Congratulations, DT!

Indeed!

--Andre LaFosse
IMI-IBI

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Limey Lawson did gently speak,

> now, you daft bastard, record a CD and make some money
> out of the damn stuff!!! :o)

While I certainly appreciate your delicate and soft-spoken persuasion, O
sir, I suspect the first part of your aforementioned plan will prove
infinitely easier than the second part.  ;)

But many thanks for listening to the stuff.

Ted Killian rightly remarked:

> Steve Lawson exhibits a very "organic" and creative use of
> live looping and real-time tweaking of effects that should
> be an example to any of us "loopfolk" . . . no matter what
> instrument we play. I can't say enough to recommend his CD
> adequately. Just do yourself a favor and get it if you haven't
> already.

Agreed!  Steve gets a pretty brain-bending array of textures and
applications out of his DL4, and does so extremely musically.  A perfect
example of the "learn to use the gear you have" adage from a few weeks
back, put to masterful use.  Check the stuff out:

http://www.steve-lawson.co.uk

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The second starts right out with a rhythmic figure of looped 
bass harmonic "pops and clicks" that reminds me of either 
Copland's "The Grand Canyon Suite" 

** a quibble in an otherwise nice review. i believe grand canyon suite is a.
grofe (who did orchestrations for gershwin), *not* copland.

stig

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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>The second starts right out with a rhythmic figure of =
looped </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>bass harmonic &quot;pops and clicks&quot; that =
reminds me of either </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Copland's &quot;The Grand Canyon Suite&quot; </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>** a quibble in an otherwise nice review. i believe =
grand canyon suite is a. grofe (who did orchestrations for gershwin), =
*not* copland.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>stig</FONT>
</P>

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No, that's actually a good question.  There is a big difference with starting two units at the
same time, and having two units synched, and I think it's mainly a matter of accounting for
slight differences in even identical units, or small initial errors that don't sound audible
at first, but after many loops become very apparent.  MIDI is not that stable either.  Having
one unit "slave" to another means that no matter what the first one's doing, the second will
compensate to the two units will play together forever.  Now, the matter of having two
different sized loops is a good one.  Using a Repeater and a JamMan both synched to a MIDI
clock of a drum machine or Digital Performer 3 via my Mac, I'm able to make two seperate loops
of totally different lengths, that both synch to the MIDI clock.  Neither loop has to start at
any particular time, in relation to eachother or to the MIDI clock, but they'll always start
at the same time in the cycle as when they were first started.

Hope that makes sense.

Mark Sottilaro

Keith Kotay wrote:

> >
> > My suggestion would be to go with either a Repeater or a two Echoplexes if you're looking
> > to have the loops in synch with eachother.  I don't think there's another way to do this
> > right now.  Two DL4s would be OK, if you didn't need the loops to be synched.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> Mark,
>
> I know this is a real neophyte question, but what properties are you trying
> to maintain when two loopers are 'in sync'?  I assume that it means the
> loops are triggered at the same time, every time.  Does loop length factor
> in at all?  I mean, on the Echo Pro you can send a 'Play Once' MIDI message
> to two units and that would trigger both loops at the same time (or very,
> very close--I would imagine too close to hear).  As long as neither loop
> was shorter than the 'Play Once' interval--and the musician recorded the
> loops to the same beat--wouldn't they be in sync?
>
> Sorry for asking things you guys take for granted,
>
> Keith

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Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 22:50:22 +0200
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> David Bowie - that on his new release,
> "Heathen", our own David Torn is playing

for those (like me) who can't wait, there are heathen previews on
www.davidbowie.com. sounds promising, very bowie-ish.

= michael peters
= www.mp3.com/veloopity



From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun  7 17:10:14 2002
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>
>>  our own David Torn is playing what is probably lead guitar!
>
>It is indeed "probably" lead guitar, but with Mr. Torn you never can
>tell.  ;)

With Mr. Torn's alchemical skills, I'm sure he can turn "lead" guitar 
into "gold."

Ack./

There's an interesting interview w/ Tony Visconti in the new Tape Op 
that talks quite a bit about his collaborations w/ Bowie, from Ziggy 
to Low/Heroes to the new disc. Great reading! Bowie has always been 
one of the most fascinating pop figures, he really manages to stay 
hugely popular and surf on the fringes of the avant-garde at the same 
time, and for a very long time. Plus, he's written some terrific 
songs over the years. The new record also features Matt Chamberlain, 
one of the coolest drummers on the planet, and Matt's been known to 
spin a loop or 2 in his band Critter's Buggin. I'm really looking 
forward to this disc!
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Trenkel                                New and Improv Music
http://www.newandimprov.com         improv@peak.org
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Hi guys, 

As some of you might know, I work for Cakewalk. Sorry for the off topic
post, but I wanted to tell you about a great deal we're running. 

I wanted to let the Cubase users here on the list know that we have a
special offer on SONAR 2.0 available for the next 60-days. You won't even
believe the offer when you see it. We're even providing a free VST/DX
wrapper (60-day trial version). 

To learn more visit:

 <http://www.cakewalk.com/getSONAR/> http://www.cakewalk.com/getSONAR/

I would appreciate it if you could send this message to any of your friends
that use Cubase too.

Best regards,

 

 <mailto:carljacobson@cakewalk.com> Carl Jacobson
Director of Marketing Communications
 <http://www.cakewalk.com/> Cakewalk

 


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<p><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
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<p><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana;color:black'>As some of you might know, I work for
Cakewalk. Sorry for the off topic post, but I wanted to tell you about a great
deal we're running. </span></font></p>

<p><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana;color:black'>I wanted to let the Cubase users here on the
list know that we have a special offer on SONAR 2.0 available for the next
60-days. You won't even believe the offer when you see it. We're even providing
a free VST/DX wrapper (60-day trial version). </span></font></p>

<p><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana;color:black'>To learn more visit:</span></font></p>

<p><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana;color:black'><a href="http://www.cakewalk.com/getSONAR/"
target="_blank"><font color=black><span style='color:black'>http://www.cakewalk.com/getSONAR/</span></font></a></span></font></p>

<p><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
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7.5pt'>Carl Jacobson<br>
</span></font></a></span></font><font size=1><span style='font-size:7.5pt'>Director
of Marketing Communications<br>
</span></font><a href="http://www.cakewalk.com/"><font size=1><span
style='font-size:7.5pt'>Cakewalk</span></font></a></p>

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Should I hook my EDP pre-fade or post-fade?
 
I assume my Eclipse should be post-fade as are most reverb units ...
 
Thanks,
Steve

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<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><SPAN=20
class=3D940562621-07062002>Should I hook my EDP pre-fade or=20
post-fade?</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><SPAN=20
class=3D940562621-07062002></SPAN></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><SPAN=20
class=3D940562621-07062002>I assume my Eclipse should be post-fade as =
are most=20
reverb units ...</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><SPAN=20
class=3D940562621-07062002></SPAN></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><SPAN=20
class=3D940562621-07062002>Thanks,</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><SPAN=20
class=3D940562621-07062002>Steve</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>=


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MessageBoth work fine- and both are useful in different situations-=20
I use mine post and return on it's own channel-=20
Cliff
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: M. Steven Ginn=20
  To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 2:30 PM
  Subject: EDP pre-fade or post-fade?


  Should I hook my EDP pre-fade or post-fade?

  I assume my Eclipse should be post-fade as are most reverb units ...

  Thanks,
  Steve

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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Both work fine- and both are useful in different =
situations-=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I use mine post and return on it's own channel- =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Cliff</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dsginn@airmail.net href=3D"mailto:sginn@airmail.net">M. =
Steven Ginn</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  title=3DLoopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@loope=
rs-delight.com</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, June 07, 2002 =
2:30 PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> EDP pre-fade or =
post-fade?</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><SPAN=20
  class=3D940562621-07062002>Should I hook my EDP pre-fade or=20
  post-fade?</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><SPAN=20
  class=3D940562621-07062002></SPAN></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><SPAN=20
  class=3D940562621-07062002>I assume my Eclipse should be post-fade as =
are most=20
  reverb units ...</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><SPAN=20
  class=3D940562621-07062002></SPAN></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><SPAN=20
  class=3D940562621-07062002>Thanks,</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><SPAN=20
  =
class=3D940562621-07062002>Steve</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><=
/BODY></HTML>

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From: Gary Phillips <gary@friendlyspider.com>
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Subject: OT: Drum machine eprom question..
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I'm not an electronic genius or programmer,
just a dabbler and a power user...
But.....
Could anyone tell me why it is so difficult or why
there are never any techniques mentioned for exchanging
the sample rom chips in dedicated drum machines ?
I've heard about eprom burners....is the sample data always
very proprietary on different boxes, or is it just memory at
a specific data rate and sample rate stuck on a  memory chip ?
EI...I've got an old Yamaha RX11 that is a great machine but
with a very dated soundset.....  is it totally not worth the effort
to try to "burn your own" eproms ?  Anybody have any
expertise in this area....?
Curious in Memphis........
--
gary
@friendlyspider.com


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Subject: Re: Steve Lawson CD (was: Re: Unidentified subject!)
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Ooops!

In a message dated 6/7/02 1:27:03 PM, Steuart.Liebig@maritz.com writes:

>** a quibble in an otherwise nice review. i believe grand canyon suite
>is a. grofe (who did orchestrations for gershwin), *not* copland.

Where'd I get THAT idea . . .?

Sorry. I've said it before . . . I am a doofus.

Ted

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Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 17:27:44 -0700
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From: Alex Stahl <alex@pixar.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Drum machine eprom question..
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fwiw I recently gave away an old Oberheim Prommer to Mike Quinn's 
electronics in Oakland. This is a product from the 70's that 
addressed this idea. It even had an analog input so you could sample 
directly to an EPROM, what a concept. I think it may have been able 
to deal with chips from Simmons and Linn boxes as well as Oberheim.

I imagine that thing is still over at Quinn's if anyone wants it. 
Quinn's is one of the quintessential electronics surplus places, 
you've been warned.

-Alex S.

At 5:07 PM -0500 6/7/02, Gary Phillips wrote:
>I'm not an electronic genius or programmer,
>just a dabbler and a power user...
>But.....
>Could anyone tell me why it is so difficult or why
>there are never any techniques mentioned for exchanging
>the sample rom chips in dedicated drum machines ?
>I've heard about eprom burners....is the sample data always
>very proprietary on different boxes, or is it just memory at
>a specific data rate and sample rate stuck on a  memory chip ?
>EI...I've got an old Yamaha RX11 that is a great machine but
>with a very dated soundset.....  is it totally not worth the effort
>to try to "burn your own" eproms ?  Anybody have any
>expertise in this area....?
>Curious in Memphis........
>--
>gary
>@friendlyspider.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun  7 20:30:45 2002
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Was just informed that we will be playing at 9:30 tonight at 21 Grand in
Oakland.

for details:

http://www.21grand.org

Hope to see ya'll there,

Mark Sottilaro
http://www.mp3.com/0crossing

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun  7 20:39:41 2002
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Subject: Re: OT: Drum machine eprom question..
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I want it!  I've been looking for one of those for a while now.  But 
Oakland is about four or five hours' drive.  Do you have a phone number for 
the shop?

Thanks,

-Hans



At 17:27 07/06/2002, you wrote:
>fwiw I recently gave away an old Oberheim Prommer to Mike Quinn's 
>electronics in Oakland. This is a product from the 70's that addressed 
>this idea. It even had an analog input so you could sample directly to an 
>EPROM, what a concept. I think it may have been able to deal with chips 
>from Simmons and Linn boxes as well as Oberheim.
>
>I imagine that thing is still over at Quinn's if anyone wants it. Quinn's 
>is one of the quintessential electronics surplus places, you've been warned.
>
>-Alex S.
>
>At 5:07 PM -0500 6/7/02, Gary Phillips wrote:
>>I'm not an electronic genius or programmer,
>>just a dabbler and a power user...
>>But.....
>>Could anyone tell me why it is so difficult or why
>>there are never any techniques mentioned for exchanging
>>the sample rom chips in dedicated drum machines ?
>>I've heard about eprom burners....is the sample data always
>>very proprietary on different boxes, or is it just memory at
>>a specific data rate and sample rate stuck on a  memory chip ?
>>EI...I've got an old Yamaha RX11 that is a great machine but
>>with a very dated soundset.....  is it totally not worth the effort
>>to try to "burn your own" eproms ?  Anybody have any
>>expertise in this area....?
>>Curious in Memphis........
>>--
>>gary
>>@friendlyspider.com


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun  7 22:12:39 2002
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Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 19:10:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Banjology <banjology@yahoo.com>
Subject: Boomerang
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Hey all,
Yeah so i bought a Boomerang on ebay there a couple of
nights ago. The seller contacted me and told me that
he has the older model...or the one that isn't the
Boomerang "Plus" or something. So anyway...my bid was
of $242, this unit was bought new in 1995 or so...so
is this a good deal or should i ask for him to go
lower. He isn't really sure himself what to do...

Any help would be appreciated!

Thank
John


=====
John LeGassey
Banjology@yahoo.com
AOL Messenger - GtrJazz9
Yahoo Messenger - GtrJazz9

Guitarist - Instructor

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun  7 22:30:36 2002
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i'd call that a good deal, but i'm not sure what they're going for
currently?  499.99 for the "plus" new?

...but if you can talk him down...

-jim


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun  7 22:51:24 2002
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Hash: SHA1

On Fri, 07 Jun 2002, Banjology wrote:
> the one that isn't the Boomerang "Plus"...
> my bid was of $242...
> is this a good deal..?

As a happy user of the old plain Boomerang, I can tell you that I'd happily 
pay $242 for another one.  It's apparently easy to upgrade any 'Rang to the 
Plus model by swapping out 1 chip.  Some of the earliest 'Rangs need one more 
modification that requires sending the unit back to Texas.  My 'Rang is one 
of the older ones that will need both mods and I think the cost would be 
right around $80 to do it (plus shipping, etc.).  After the mod the only 
thing differentiating an upgraded 'Rang from a new Plus model is some 
lettering on the top panel.

So, if we do the math: 
$242 plus $80 plus shipping is less than a shiny new 'Rang Plus.

Check out http://www.boomerangmusic.com for more info and contact 
information.  (FYI, Mike Nelson, the email contact, is known to be a 
pretty busy guy.  So if you don't have any luck with email, give them a call.)

The gory details about the upgrade are at 
http://www.boomerangmusic.com/V2upgrade.htm

So, after all that I'd say go for it.  Even without the upgrade it's a great 
piece of gear.

Good luck,
Todd Pafford
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun  7 22:58:47 2002
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In a message dated 6/7/02 3:55:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
ArsOcarina@aol.com writes:


> A mini review:
> 

BEAUTIFUL.....thanks ted, great written review.....just one more cd that i 
must have!.....michael

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 6/7/02 3:55:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ArsOcarina@aol.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">A mini review:<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
BEAUTIFUL.....thanks ted, great written review.....just one more cd that i must have!.....michael</FONT></HTML>

--part1_146.f9c7cf6.2a32cc72_boundary--

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In a message dated 6/7/02 10:50:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, galen@erols.com 
writes:


> Even without the upgrade it's a great 
> piece of gear.
> 

and with the up-grade it is even greater.....some fuss over the sound quality 
but i never found this to be an issue, you got the long loops (to go from <1 
sec.delay to over 4 min.of delay and be able to over lay what-ever for 
for-ever this makes me happy) i seldom go longer than 15 sec. to 30 sec. but 
when i really want to strech it, its there.....the rang is SIMPLE to operate 
and it is excellent as a live instument, the switches are quiet to operate 
and they have a very light touch.....it is more than a great first 
looper.....forget the midi (no prob in my book), forget the stereo, but you 
do have 2 lines out and 2 lines in, you can do a lot of mis-chiff with that 
combo particularly using the "thru/mute" switch.....in all, a great 
box.....but this is from a man who feels one can never have enuf 
loopers.....michael

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 6/7/02 10:50:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, galen@erols.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Even without the upgrade it's a great <BR>
piece of gear.<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
and with the up-grade it is even greater.....some fuss over the sound quality but i never found this to be an issue, you got the long loops (to go from &lt;1 sec.delay to over 4 min.of delay and be able to over lay what-ever for for-ever this makes me happy) i seldom go longer than 15 sec. to 30 sec. but when i really want to strech it, its there.....the rang is SIMPLE to operate and it is excellent as a live instument, the switches are quiet to operate and they have a very light touch.....it is more than a great first looper.....forget the midi (no prob in my book), forget the stereo, but you do have 2 lines out and 2 lines in, you can do a lot of mis-chiff with that combo particularly using the "thru/mute" switch.....in all, a great box.....but this is from a man who feels one can never have enuf loopers.....michael</FONT></HTML>

--part1_b8.289662ab.2a32e0e5_boundary--

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Subject: New roland loop device
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hey, I came upon this today:

http://www.rolandus.com/products/details.asp?catid=4&subcatid=0&prodId=MC-09

Mark Sottilaro

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Subject: Re: New roland loop device
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looks promising, but why do all these companies assume we're all going to be satisfied with
unbalanced connections? sure it's convenient, but eh.

jon

----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Sottilaro <sine@zerocrossing.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 3:15 AM
Subject: New roland loop device


> hey, I came upon this today:
>
> http://www.rolandus.com/products/details.asp?catid=4&subcatid=0&prodId=MC-09
>
> Mark Sottilaro
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun  8 03:33:32 2002
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Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 00:29:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Richards <kohntarkosz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: DL-4
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<<I would love to purchase another DL4 for my
street setup - Most people overlook the potential
of the delay emulations that are included in the 
unit (14 in total), and just concentrate on the 
amazing looping features.>>

Yes, this is one of the reasons why I got a
Boomerang, so that I could use more of those
wonderful delay replicas while looping. I
particular like the different effects I can get
by cranking the regeneration control on the
various tape and analog delay emulations. 

=====
May you never thirst!
The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris

"What do you get when you give a yo-yo to a flock of flamingos?"-James Earl Jones

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

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From: Chris Richards <kohntarkosz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Frampton vs. Fripp
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<<I have a (ahem) theory about Bowie albums:
  The quality of the album is directly related to
  the featured guitarist on the album.
  (ie - Frampton vs Fripp)>>

You're not seriously blaming Never Let Me Down on
Frampton, are you?! Besides, Frampton happens to
be a kick ass guitarist. At least, he was back in
the 70's. Frampton Comes Alive remains a firm
favorite of mine! Just because he didn't do the
whole prog rock thing doesn't mean he wasn't a
good player! 

=====
May you never thirst!
The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris

"What do you get when you give a yo-yo to a flock of flamingos?"-James Earl Jones

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun  8 04:52:58 2002
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From: armatronix <armatronix@charter.net>
Subject: Re: New roland loop device
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Damn you Mark!  That's basically my whole rig, in one little box.

Anybody want to buy an 808 and a couple of EDP's, plus some other 
miscellaneous junk?  I'll throw in the dolly for free. ;)

-Hans


At 00:15 08/06/2002, you wrote:
>hey, I came upon this today:
>
>http://www.rolandus.com/products/details.asp?catid=4&subcatid=0&prodId=MC-09
>
>Mark Sottilaro


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun  8 04:56:57 2002
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Subject: Re: New roland loop device
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Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2002 04:55:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Williamson <erwill@suitandtieguy.com>
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i make a habit of avoiding _anything_ groove-approved, however i want to 
at least _try_ the MC-09.

i'm not interested in the looping at all, i have a repeater (wouldn't mind 
another) and two RDS units. however, a _real_ VA 303 emulator is pretty 
frippin' cool. you know, something to throw in the briefcase on my way to 
work.

i probably won't buy it though, more important fish to fry. another moog 
liberation, USB midi interface, firewire audio interface, cd burner (faster 
than 2x), and a PA are all infinitely more important.

Eric Williamson
www.suitandtieguy.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun  8 05:02:36 2002
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To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: new looping/sequencer/fx rack finished.
Message-ID: <1023526884.3d01c7e4176fd@www.suitandtieguy.com>
Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2002 05:01:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Williamson <erwill@suitandtieguy.com>
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http://www.suitandtieguy.com/sights/may_2002/stg_new_rig.jpg

it's 3/4" birch ply, veneered edges, oil finish. it looks way cooler than Klaus 
Schulze's Quasimidi Wall. imho.

here are some intermediary photos

http://www.suitandtieguy.com/sights/may_2002/new_rack_1.jpg
http://www.suitandtieguy.com/sights/may_2002/new_rack_2.jpg
http://www.suitandtieguy.com/sights/may_2002/new_rack_3.jpg
http://www.suitandtieguy.com/sights/may_2002/new_rack_4.jpg

i used it tonight at a show in Chicago at a Caribou Coffee dealership 
(which i'm kicking myself for not spamming here) and it quickened my 
setup/breakdown routine from 2-3 hrs to less than 45 minutes. yeah, i'm 
slow. i have too much shit. big friggin deal. haha.

Eric Williamson
www.suitandtieguy.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun  8 05:04:19 2002
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A doubleneck Liberation...?  Now, _that_ would be cool.

-Hans


At 01:55 08/06/2002, Eric Williamson wrote:
>i make a habit of avoiding _anything_ groove-approved, however i want to
>at least _try_ the MC-09.
>
>i'm not interested in the looping at all, i have a repeater (wouldn't mind
>another) and two RDS units. however, a _real_ VA 303 emulator is pretty
>frippin' cool. you know, something to throw in the briefcase on my way to
>work.
>
>i probably won't buy it though, more important fish to fry. another moog
>liberation, USB midi interface, firewire audio interface, cd burner (faster
>than 2x), and a PA are all infinitely more important.
>
>Eric Williamson
>www.suitandtieguy.com


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun  8 05:16:54 2002
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From: skincage <skincage@infin8ty.com>
Subject: Re: new looping/sequencer/fx rack finished.
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purty! how the hell do you drag that around, though?

seriously though, it's way classy. beats the hell out of my pile of gator cases. i know how
the slow setup thing goes too! i've been given "the talk" more than once. haha. then again i
got half-yelled at for getting tranced out and playing double my set time without realizing
it. like you say, oh well!

jon

----- Original Message -----
From: Eric Williamson <erwill@suitandtieguy.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 5:01 AM
Subject: new looping/sequencer/fx rack finished.


> http://www.suitandtieguy.com/sights/may_2002/stg_new_rig.jpg
>
> it's 3/4" birch ply, veneered edges, oil finish. it looks way cooler than Klaus
> Schulze's Quasimidi Wall. imho.
>
> here are some intermediary photos
>
> http://www.suitandtieguy.com/sights/may_2002/new_rack_1.jpg
> http://www.suitandtieguy.com/sights/may_2002/new_rack_2.jpg
> http://www.suitandtieguy.com/sights/may_2002/new_rack_3.jpg
> http://www.suitandtieguy.com/sights/may_2002/new_rack_4.jpg
>
> i used it tonight at a show in Chicago at a Caribou Coffee dealership
> (which i'm kicking myself for not spamming here) and it quickened my
> setup/breakdown routine from 2-3 hrs to less than 45 minutes. yeah, i'm
> slow. i have too much shit. big friggin deal. haha.
>
> Eric Williamson
> www.suitandtieguy.com
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun  8 05:28:33 2002
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Nice one Eric - check out: http://armatronix.com/studio.jpg - separated at 
birth?  It looks like you've got me beaten by about eight spaces, though 
(and a couple of synths).

It's nice for shortening setup times, but it sure is heavy!  I've been 
wondering a lot lately about whether I actually need to haul _all_ that 
stuff around with me.

-Hans


At 02:01 08/06/2002, you wrote:
>http://www.suitandtieguy.com/sights/may_2002/stg_new_rig.jpg
>
>it's 3/4" birch ply, veneered edges, oil finish. it looks way cooler than 
>Klaus
>Schulze's Quasimidi Wall. imho.
>
>here are some intermediary photos
>
>http://www.suitandtieguy.com/sights/may_2002/new_rack_1.jpg
>http://www.suitandtieguy.com/sights/may_2002/new_rack_2.jpg
>http://www.suitandtieguy.com/sights/may_2002/new_rack_3.jpg
>http://www.suitandtieguy.com/sights/may_2002/new_rack_4.jpg
>
>i used it tonight at a show in Chicago at a Caribou Coffee dealership
>(which i'm kicking myself for not spamming here) and it quickened my
>setup/breakdown routine from 2-3 hrs to less than 45 minutes. yeah, i'm
>slow. i have too much shit. big friggin deal. haha.
>
>Eric Williamson
>www.suitandtieguy.com


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun  8 06:52:03 2002
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Subject: Re: FILM MUSIC STUFF
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 03:51:01 -0700
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Dear Stuart,

In regards to your question about securing film score commissions.

The film industry is a very small community actually (no matter what city
you are in).
of this I'm sure:    people will not come looking for you no matter how good
or appropriate
your work is.............

You will need to go after people whose work resonates with your
musical sensibilities................I would suggest that you try
documentary film makers first.
They are lesser known and frequently this is a great way to 'break in'.

Another  great way to accomplish this is to go to a local university with a
good film professor,
make an appointment and ask him to direct you to the most talented young
student filmakers that he or she knows.   Approach them and offer to score
their film
with your original music FOR FREE!!!!!

Remember, they are getting started just as you are, so you are both bringing
exactly the same
kinds of experience to the table.   Also, they are doing what they do as a
labor of love.  That's why
they will be tomorrow's breakout directors!!!

Passion is the single most important element in success, if you ask me (you
haven't , so this
is all gratuitous advice and can thusly, be tossed aside in a heartbeat
without offending me.........tee hee hee).

Also remember, that tomorrows  Scorseses, Lucas and Spielbergs are exactly
where they were
at the very start of their career................in film school, making
their first short films.

Connecting with someone as fresh and talented as you are is a great call and
much much more likely
to happen than Paul Thomas Anderson calling you out of the blue and asking
you to score his next
masterpiece.

Good luck!!!!!

yours,  Rick Walker

PS     I am amazed by the number of young artist who want to break into the
music business near the
top.............It never happens that way.   Dues paying is just another way
of saying:  "Learn
your craft".   I'm all in favor of chomping at the bit;   at feeling
extremely confident about your
work:   I was the most insufferable 26 year old, know it all,
musician...........you don't even want
to know..............LOL..............but it takes chutzpah, talent, a lot
of hard work learning your 'shit',
and a good deal of luck to accomplish what you want to
do.................You seem to have
a lot going for you............I say GO FOR IT!!!!!


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun  8 08:03:15 2002
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spgoodman@earthlight.net writes:

>Congratulations, DT!
thanks.
i've no idea what the final version of the recording sounds like, but i 
probably will hear it, eventually.
best,
dt / splattercell

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun  8 08:14:48 2002
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stuart@solostring.com writes:

>...so the question is, do any of you know of a few places where I can 
>approach people (preferably online - its more pragmatic)
it might be more pragmatic for you, but of all the 'entertainment industry' 
niches, film is certainly one of the most 'schmoozy'..... better to meet 
folks than write to them, i'd think. 
rick walker had some great suggestions.
try to connect w/directors, producers, film editors, music editors, music 
supervisors & publishing-folk who are involved in films.....
and:
you might approach some established film composers (w/demos of your playing, 
etc) to whose work ya think ya might contribute something of value.....

>Can anyone put in a good word for me?
it's likely that someone can do that, but if ya wanna be truly involved, then 
i'd suggest a more d.i.y.-approach:
otherwise your patience may be sorely tested, bouncing on the vicissitudes of 
'luck' and whichever-way yer karmic winds doth blow.
best,
dt / splattercell

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun  8 08:19:29 2002
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come to think of it.....
i can't remember playing much 'lead gtr' w/db:
maybe a onna coupla tunes:
mostly, i think, it were (live)-loops'n'noise.
missing piece of brain.
best,
dt / splattercell

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun  8 08:20:12 2002
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In a message dated 6/7/2002 9:49:14 AM, Luigimeloni74@libero.it writes:

>P.S. Has someone been able to record or listen completely to the full
>performance of DT on www.kcrw.com internet radio?
luigi,
eventually, we'll put that performance at the website:
splattercell.com
thanks,
dt / splattercell

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun  8 08:21:59 2002
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In a message dated 6/7/2002 12:20:54 PM, jimfowler@prodigy.net writes:

>in the album liner notes, mr. torn is credited with "guitar, guitar loops"
>if memory serves.
whatever was credited (and/or employed), it was gtr/loops/omnichord/oud.
best,
dt / splattercell

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun  8 11:22:08 2002
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Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2002 11:19:16 -0400
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: Scott McGregor Moore <scott@dreamstate.to>
Subject: OT Re: Frampton vs. Fripp
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At 03:35 AM 6/8/2002, you wrote:
><<I have a (ahem) theory about Bowie albums:
>   The quality of the album is directly related to
>   the featured guitarist on the album.
>   (ie - Frampton vs Fripp)>>
>
>You're not seriously blaming Never Let Me Down on
>Frampton, are you?! Besides, Frampton happens to
>be a kick ass guitarist. At least, he was back in
>the 70's. Frampton Comes Alive remains a firm
>favorite of mine! Just because he didn't do the
>whole prog rock thing doesn't mean he wasn't a
>good player!

Well - since you're taking my theory (which is mine) to task
with this - no, I'm not blaming Frampton for Never Let Me Down
but neither am I giving him much credit for elevating that album.
(As you said, his peak was back in the 70s and my
impression is that fame led him away from the path
and into blandness. Would you agree that Comes Alive
was his last really good album?) Now, Heroes would have
been a good album without Fripp, but his contributions
unquestionably took it higher and closer to greatness.

While we're on about Never Let Me Down - I was talking
to a couple of musicians at The Ambient Ping two weeks ago
and because I was spinning Low (side 2) between sets, the
conversation went to Bowie. One said that the first time he saw
Bowie live was the Glass Spider tour (for Never Let Me Down
and with Frampton) and he said he literally cried, he was so
disappointed with what Bowie was doing at that time. He has
since seen the Sound and Vision tour (with Adrian Belew) and
the Outside and Earthlings tours (with Reeves Gabrels) and
his faith has been restored. (I think Carlos Alomar was on
some of those tours too and he's certainly a solid, solid player.)

Cheers,
Scott M2

http://www.dreamSTATE.to
ambientelectronicsoundscapes
http://www.THEAMBiENTPiNG.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun  8 11:48:54 2002
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott McGregor Moore" <scott@dreamstate.to>

> Well - since you're taking my theory (which is mine) to task
> with this - no, I'm not blaming Frampton for Never Let Me Down
> but neither am I giving him much credit for elevating that album.
> (As you said, his peak was back in the 70s and my
> impression is that fame led him away from the path
> and into blandness. 

Even Comes Alive was pretty bland. His real peak was Humble Pie,
Rockin' the Fillmore.


* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley





From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun  8 13:18:49 2002
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> One said that the first time he saw Bowie live was the Glass Spider
> tour (for Never Let Me Down
> and with Frampton) and he said he literally cried, he was so
> disappointed with what Bowie was doing at that time.

FWIW Bowie himself cried for the exact same reasons on that tour. He has
mentioned numerous times how Reeves Gabrels took him to task for such
commercial schlock. Bowie whole heatedly agreed and the result was his
"Farewell"  tour (with Belew) where he swore he would never play the
Bowie hits again and the start of Tin Machine which he claims got him
back on his artistic legs.


> (I think Carlos Alomar was on some of those tours too and he's
> certainly a solid, solid player.)

Alomar was on the Glass Spider tour as musical director I believe.

I don't know what the point of comparing Firrp to Frampton is but if
you're going to do so within the Bowie cannon you really need to look at
context. if Bowie pulled i Fripp on his later material I doubt it would
have done much good. he himself has said he was in a  rut and going away
from creativity towards commercialism. Pulling Frampton in was  last
ditch effort to feel comfortable with what he  was doing since he and
Framptom were old school chums.  it's didn't pan out exactly but at
least it was an experiment. Bowie *is* known for a few twists and turns
don't forget :)



From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun  8 13:19:12 2002
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Got a best of of peter frampton recently and was blown away reminded how
many good songs he did. Also back in the day saw an interview with him by
some talk show woman at his small suburban home at the crest of his success,
and like Henry Winkler in a similar interview said he and his wife knew that
fame's fickle finger could move at any time and were just grateful for the
what has and may come, but wouldn't let themselves get caught up in the
lifestyle or live extravagantly because they value their quality of life(he
was driving a pastel blue vw bug, which was one of the points where the
reporter prodded him again to spend his money as he just looked at her with
maybe pity), a few years ago my parents were watching Peter Framptom at 4th
of July thing at the Pleasonton CA fairgrounds and some gangs came that
night and started shooting dad threw mom of to the side of the stampede and
put his body over hers in case they got shot, Peter frampton kept playing,
urged everyone to stay calm and kept playing and since it could have been
worse, thought what a noble guy, my parents were even enjoying his set,
remarking "he seems like such a nice man" and "you can understand the words
he's singing".."he really did a good thing trying to keep everyone calm,
otherwise someone else could have gotten killed from the trampling"

Frampton also elevated Harry Nillson's "Nilsson Schmillson".

Perhaas I've rambled a bit, sorry about that.

Glenn

on 6/8/02 8:51 AM, David Beardsley at db@biink.com wrote:

> Even Comes Alive was pretty bland. His real peak was Humble Pie,
> Rockin' the Fillmore.
> 

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Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 13:23:14 EDT
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anyone have a #?
thinking of purchasing a back up edp.........think alto's the way to go?
thanks!

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=3 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0">anyone have a #?<BR>
thinking of purchasing a back up edp.........think alto's the way to go?<BR>
thanks!</FONT></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun  8 13:25:59 2002
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Subject: Line level vs instrument level EDP etc
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I've read many comments from edp, jamman and rptr users complaining about
interface issues with instrument level sources (ie guitar amps etc). I
recently did a routing consoltation with a looper friend of mine who has an
edp, a repeater, and  a dl4.
all running through a small mackie board. What I noticed with the edp is
that it does'nt seem to have very high input head room, so one must keep an
eye on levels going into it and keep the input volume down, to avoid
clipping. In order to get the signal back  up hot enough, one must in turn,
bring up the output volume, which will naturely increase the noise. This
was not a significant amount of noise, my old jamman has a similar lack of
headroom.  However, if you were to plug your edp, or jamman, or repeater
directly into the front of a guitar amplifier, yikes, watch out! Much hiss
and noise will insue. The solution would be to place some kind of
transformer/line level shifter between the instrument and thelooper, and
the looper and the amp. You want to step up the signal from -10 to +4 going
in to the  looper, and step it back down comming out of the looper in to
the amp. Ebtech makes such a device (or made, in the current economic
climate, I'm not sure who is in business any more). The device is called a
line level shifter, and it will bump a -10db signal up to a +4db signal or
vice versa. very handy tool that will keep noise at bay. The unit is about
the size of a large direct box and they do make a multiple input rack mount
version as well. I know I've posted such info before, but I thought I'd run
it by  again for the newbies.
Bill


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun  8 14:00:00 2002
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www.altomusic.com

i bought my edp from them and couldn't be more pleased 
with the transaction.

-jim

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun  8 14:04:20 2002
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fwiw: i've got the cd sitting in front of me right now 
and the liner states:

"david torn . guitars . guitar loops . omnichord"

and they did indeed leave out the oud.

-jim

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun  8 14:26:52 2002
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I bought my Repeater, Akai Z8 & Eventide Eclipse from them.  Great
prices and service!

Steve


> 
> 
> www.altomusic.com
> 
> i bought my edp from them and couldn't be more pleased 
> with the transaction.
> 
> -jim
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun  8 14:54:10 2002
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Thanks for all the good info and advice! :)
--
Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
http://www.solostring.com
stuart@solostring.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun  8 14:58:05 2002
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how do u unsubscribe from loopers?

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  COLOR="#ff0080" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B>how do u unsubscribe from loopers?</B></FONT></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun  8 15:30:49 2002
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Subject: Re: New roland loop device
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Not only unbalanced, but RCA connectors :(((

The writeup certainly looks intriguing; probably going to give Repeater
a run for its money!  An integrated synth/sequencer and looper is a
great idea, and I look forward to trying one.  One thing I've been
wanting for a long time, that I'm guessing this unit isn't going to do
(since it's not mentioned in the writeup) is an integrated audio looper
/ midi sequencer.  Not THAT would be a must have!!!  BTW, the brochure
makes no mention of midi control; I'm guessing that might be a weak
spot.

Anybody know when this is supposed to be released?  Expected price?

Elby


> Subject: Re: New roland loop device
> Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2002 03:21:36 -0400
> From: skincage <skincage@infin8ty.com>
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>
> looks promising, but why do all these companies assume we're all going
> to be satisfied with
> unbalanced connections? sure it's convenient, but eh.
>
> jon
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mark Sottilaro <sine@zerocrossing.net>
> To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 3:15 AM
> Subject: New roland loop device
>
>
> > hey, I came upon this today:
> >
> >
> http://www.rolandus.com/products/details.asp?catid=4&subcatid=0&prodId=MC-09
> >
> > Mark Sottilaro
> >
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun  8 15:37:37 2002
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Just looked a little closer at the front-cover brochure.  Strongly
implies that this will be limited to 6-second loops :(

Oh well ....

Elby


>
>
> Subject: New roland loop device
> Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 00:15:23 -0700
> From: Mark Sottilaro <sine@zerocrossing.net>
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>
> hey, I came upon this today:
>
> http://www.rolandus.com/products/details.asp?catid=4&subcatid=0&prodId=MC-09
>
> Mark Sottilaro
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun  8 16:10:44 2002
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Subject: Re: Re:New roland loop device
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And looking better at the specs it seems that midi is optional...:-(
And then... 4 tracks of looping+1 track of synth and a mono input and
output???

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mountain Man" <mtman@cloud9.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 9:38 PM
Subject: Re:New roland loop device


> Just looked a little closer at the front-cover brochure.  Strongly
> implies that this will be limited to 6-second loops :(
>
> Oh well ....
>
> Elby
>
>
> >
> >
> > Subject: New roland loop device
> > Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 00:15:23 -0700
> > From: Mark Sottilaro <sine@zerocrossing.net>
> > To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> >
> > hey, I came upon this today:
> >
> >
http://www.rolandus.com/products/details.asp?catid=4&subcatid=0&prodId=MC-09
> >
> > Mark Sottilaro
> >
>
>


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun  8 16:44:20 2002
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Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2002 16:44:12 -0700
Subject: Optigan with disks for sale near Rochester, NH
From: Beatrice and Matthew Jasper <jasp@metrocast.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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Hello--I have an optigan W/ bench & about ten disks.   The optigan works yet
when I opened it up to rig a straight line out from the photocells I did a
less than elegant job of opening up the case.....   So if you want the sound
& don't care about the looks call me soon. It is rigged for a direct line
out so as to bypass the noise & hum of amp.   Amp still works.  I'd like to
sell this within a day or two if possible....   $175

Also have a digitech rds 3600 (7.6 second looper) for $70...


Also am a user of the Electrix repeater & won't spam the list with sales in
the future!  

Thanks,

Matt

email=  jasp@metrocast.net
phone =603-755-3864


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun  8 17:48:14 2002
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Uh, I hate to break it to you, but this list is really thinly disguised 
gear lust, and all gear sale spam is welcome.

Mark


On Saturday, June 8, 2002, at 04:44  PM, Beatrice and Matthew Jasper 
wrote:

> Amp still works.  I'd like to
> sell this within a day or two if possible....   $175

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun  8 18:01:26 2002
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Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2002 15:00:22 -0700
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: Kim Flint <kflint@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Re: Line level vs instrument level EDP etc
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you must have been using a pretty old echoplex, if the gain was set up like 
that. the new ones are quite different, and designed to easily handle +4, 
-10, and instrument levels. It is also designed to easily convert between 
+4 and -10, or -10 to +4, should you need to do that. The input is high 
enough impedance so a guitar or bass can be plugged directly into it. the 
latest EDP'seven have a built in limiter, which prevents accidental 
clipping of the digital path to the loop.

For older units, you can easily modify the circuit to make the gain more 
manageable. the mod is detailed in the echoplex faq (been there for years 
actually). It just takes two resistor changes:
http://www.loopers-delight.com/tools/echoplex/FAQ6.html

people with old units have generally been much happier with it after doing 
that mod, I recommend that for your friend. No need for the transformers or 
level shifters you are recommending.

kim


At 10:28 AM 6/8/2002, William R. Walker, wrote:
>I've read many comments from edp, jamman and rptr users complaining about
>interface issues with instrument level sources (ie guitar amps etc). I
>recently did a routing consoltation with a looper friend of mine who has an
>edp, a repeater, and  a dl4.
>all running through a small mackie board. What I noticed with the edp is
>that it does'nt seem to have very high input head room, so one must keep an
>eye on levels going into it and keep the input volume down, to avoid
>clipping. In order to get the signal back  up hot enough, one must in turn,
>bring up the output volume, which will naturely increase the noise. This
>was not a significant amount of noise, my old jamman has a similar lack of
>headroom.  However, if you were to plug your edp, or jamman, or repeater
>directly into the front of a guitar amplifier, yikes, watch out! Much hiss
>and noise will insue. The solution would be to place some kind of
>transformer/line level shifter between the instrument and thelooper, and
>the looper and the amp. You want to step up the signal from -10 to +4 going
>in to the  looper, and step it back down comming out of the looper in to
>the amp. Ebtech makes such a device (or made, in the current economic
>climate, I'm not sure who is in business any more). The device is called a
>line level shifter, and it will bump a -10db signal up to a +4db signal or
>vice versa. very handy tool that will keep noise at bay. The unit is about
>the size of a large direct box and they do make a multiple input rack mount
>version as well. I know I've posted such info before, but I thought I'd run
>it by  again for the newbies.
>Bill

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com

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To whom it may concern, noticed a prophet 10 about to close for a little
over 2200 dollars at:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=879721822

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun  8 20:25:26 2002
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From: "Scott McGregor Moore" <scott@dreamstate.to>
To: "Loopers Delight" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: The Ambient Ping presents SOFTWARE with Toastybird Visuals
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 20:26:56 -0400
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Speaking of gearlust - You may wish to checkout this page
of photos from SOFTWARE's last excursion to the Ping
and their rather obvious fondness for Electrix units.
http://www.oldbmw.com/other/software2002/
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

THE AMBiENT PiNG   http://www.theambientping.com
Every Tuesday Night - doors open at 9pm - 1st set at 9:30
@ club nia / C'est What - 19 Church St. at Front St. - Toronto
        3 blocks east of the Union Station subway.
        map - http://www.cestwhat.com/map.html
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

This Tuesday June 11th - SOFTWARE with Toastybird Visuals

Plexus (synthesizers) and Paul Asselin (guitars) often transform
what are considered traditional musical genres and their most 
recent collaborations could be called 'techno-jazz'. With an
entourage of vintage and modern electronics, SOFTWARE
"creates music (not noise) striving to be sensitive to the
audience's enjoyment of spontaneity." They will be performing
their continuous-musical-experience in a more disciplined
ambient approach for you in this evening of exploration,
accompanied by digital video projections edited live by
Toastybird Visuals in cooperation with Plexus Productions.
http://www.plexusinteractivegroup.com/technojazz

Between sets CD - "Tycho Brahe" by Lightwave (fathom)
An outstanding 1994 soundscape album from these French
electronic artists with contributions from Paul Haslinger,
Hector Zazou, Jacques Deregnaucourt & Renaud Pion.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

The Ambient Ping presents free live performances by Toronto's
finest ambient, chillout and experimental music artists plus
performers from across the continent, every Tuesday at club nia
(aka C'est What) featuring a comfortable lower stage area, perfect
for attentive listening, plus a higher level with a bar, back room
and more seating that's great for conversation, good food and
the club's impressive beer, wine and whiskey selection.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Coming Tuesday June 18th 2002 - The Ministry of Inside Things
MOIT -  http://members.bellatlantic.net/~chuckv/moit.html
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Please forward this e-mail to any friends who may be
interested in live ambient and experimental performances.




From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun  8 23:39:15 2002
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Subject: MIDI Foot Controller I'VE never seen! (On eBay)
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=882572036
Anybody got a clue about this one?
Notes--so there's yer EDP stuff--
Looks solid--
Whadda ya think?
Gary

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  9 01:01:49 2002
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JIMFOWLER@prodigy.net writes:

>and they did indeed leave out the oud.
maybe they didn't use it; maybe they did, and spaced --- i recorded the oud 
at home, w/no-one present but my dog.
best,
dt / spla

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  9 03:43:00 2002
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hmmm...you haven't even heard it yet?

odd...the lowly radio dj gets his hands on the record before the performer
does...

nonetheless, it sounds good.

-jim


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Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 02:40:47 -0500
Subject: The Best Live Drum Machine
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Hi All,

What are your favorite drum machines and why?

Thanks!!
-- 
_______________________________________________
Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  9 04:05:25 2002
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<<Would you agree that Comes Alive was his last
really good album?)>>

To be honest, Frampton Comes Alive is the only
one of his records that I've heard all the way
through. I've never heard the four solo albums he
did prior to it. I do know that I refuse to buy
I'm In You on the grounds that, well, there's no
way in hell that a song called I'm In You can be
any good. I mean, what kind of an idiot writes a
song with a title like that? And it's the title
track! And then there's that RIDICULOUS photo of
him on the cover. Course, the photo on the cover
of Comes Alive is ridiculous too (someone once
pointed out to me that he looks like someone had
just hit in the back of the head with a shovel on
Comes Alive), but at least the song titles aren't
stupid (except maybe Baby I Love Your Way, and I
swear on Keith Moon's grave, I owned that album
for about a decade before I realized that song
was on it). 

And don't even get me started on the Sgt. Pepper
movie. Frampton says he told his manager that he
was afraid to do the movie because he felt it
might be "sacrilege". Should have gone with your
instincts, Pete! But no, he had to let Robert
Stigwood hornswaggle him into doing what is quite
possibly THE worst movie ever made!!! And The Bee
Gees wonder why everyone was doing "Bee Gee Free
Weekends" on the radio during the whole disco
backlash thing! 

I've heard isolated examples of his work since
that fiasco, some of which strike me as bland,
some of which seem not too bad for a guy who's
been around since Nigel Ollson was Uriah Heep's
drummer (actually, longer than that, even). But I
don't really have the evidence to deny any claim
that Frampton's best years are behind him. 

As to the comment that someone else made that
even Comes Alive struck him as bland, I've heard
that comment too. My friend Doug Walker (who is
the leader and synth player in a NYC based band
called Alien Planetscapes) once told me that he
thought Frampton's first four solo records were
rather good, but there was too much filler on
Comes Alive. Nels Cline has also made the
ascertation that he loved Frampton's playing with
Humble Pie, but that he can't even recognize him
on his solo records. 


<< Now, Heroes would have been a good album
without Fripp, but his contributions
unquestionably took it higher and closer to 
greatness.>>

Then you have records like Let's Dance, which is
listenable almost solely due to the playing of a
then unknown guitarist named Stevie Ray Vaughan.
Nile Rodgers (who produced that album) now admits
that he told David that if he wanted bad ass
blues guitar, he should at least get someone like
Albert King, that people have at least heard of,
instead of an unknown. Apparently, Nile needed a
little more convincing than Bowie did. 

I need to get Heroes out again and give it a
listen. Likewise for Lodger (which Belew played
on). Anyone ever heard the live album that Bowie
did around that time, Stage? How is it? I know
both Belew and Hawkwind violinist Simon House are
on it. Can you actually TELL they're on it,
though? 

=====
May you never thirst!
The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris

"What do you get when you give a yo-yo to a flock of flamingos?"-James Earl Jones

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  9 06:53:49 2002
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Subject: A stranger remixed one of my songs :)
From: Stuart Wyatt <stuart@solostring.com>
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--Apple-Mail-6-215554916
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Hi all,

I awoke to a nice present this morning. Someone remixed one of my pieces 
with a load of drum and bass - which was not an easy task, as I do not 
normally adhere to a strict BPM.

The track is: http://mapage.noos.fr/swyatt/CynicThursdayRemix.mp3 (7MB, 
8mins 128k BPM)

The guys is called Mike (thats all I know for now) from the UK, and goes 
by the name Cynic.... More info about him can be found at 
http://www.cynyc.co.uk

I dont know if this is going to be everyone's cup of tea, but I was 
blown away at the remix....

--
Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
http://www.solostring.com
stuart@solostring.com


--Apple-Mail-6-215554916
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Hi all,


I awoke to a nice present this morning. Someone remixed one of my
pieces with a load of drum and bass - which was not an easy task, as I
do not normally adhere to a strict BPM.


The track is:
<underline><color><param>1A1A,1A1A,FFFF</param>http://mapage.noos.fr/swyatt/CynicThursdayRemix.mp3</color></underline>
(7MB, 8mins 128k BPM)


The guys is called Mike (thats all I know for now) from the UK, and
goes by the name Cynic.... More info about him can be found at
<underline><color><param>1A1A,1A1A,FFFF</param>http://www.cynyc.co.uk</color></underline>


I dont know if this is going to be everyone's cup of tea, but I was
blown away at the remix....


--

Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project

<underline><color><param>1A1A,1A1A,FFFF</param>http://www.solostring.com</color></underline>

stuart@solostring.com



--Apple-Mail-6-215554916--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  9 08:01:35 2002
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From: "Chris Richards":

> .......Anyone ever heard the live album that Bowie
> did around that time, Stage? How is it? I know
> both Belew and Hawkwind violinist Simon House are
> on it. Can you actually TELL they're on it,
> though?
Stage was my door to what i call "my" music.
it was the listening of that record which made me curious about a that
certain gtr player (belew) who i really deeply love (know Twang Bar King ?).
from there on i started a research which has given me the chance to know
that the music i was unconsciously looking for, was existing.
and i've been so happy to find the path.
Recently I've bought Stage on cd to listen to it again after a lot of years
and things done in the meanwhile; it has brought a warm feeling to me.
I think stage is great, also if someone can say that it is very "eighties"
sounding.
It is maybe the best db season with the so called "berlin" albums.
Outside is also a great production, a shame it has given up with that
trilogy project.
If you like db in his best form, i think you should buy it.
luca


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  9 08:54:10 2002
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Subject: Re: Optigan with disks for sale near Rochester, NH
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That's good to hear....   I've no talent whatsoever musically so have
surrounded myself with Optigans & Octave cats when what I really need is
piano lessons.  Am getting rid of some excess equipment including a Yamaha
vss-30, Casio VA-10, Casio SK-2100, akai s-900 w/disks..... also.... Tracks
from my Optigan & mumbling-schizophrenic-60-year-old-nearly-toothless-singer
album (more than half the tracks use the Optigan) are posted at:
www.mp3.com/pneumershonic

Good music for getting rid of unwanted guests with.   All lyrics improvised
while drunk in basement.

--Matt



>
> Uh, I hate to break it to you, but this list is really thinly disguised
> gear lust, and all gear sale spam is welcome.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
>

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In overdub mode, does it allow you to adjust the feedback level, so that
the loop gradually fades away and is replaced by what is being played?

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  9 09:57:33 2002
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From: David Beardsley <db@biink.com>
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http://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/09/arts/music/09PARE.html


* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>* David Beardsley<BR>* <A 
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  9 10:20:45 2002
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jf,

>hmmm...you haven't even heard it yet?
not the final mixes/sequencing, no.

>odd...the lowly radio dj gets his hands on the record before the performer
>does...
not so odd.
pretty normal, really.

>nonetheless, it sounds good.
thanks! i look fwd to hearing it.
best,
dt / splattercell

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  9 10:35:36 2002
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Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 10:35:07 -0400
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From: Scott McGregor Moore <scott@dreamstate.to>
Subject: Re: OT Frampton, Fripp and Stevie Ray 
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>
>Then you have records like Let's Dance, which is
>listenable almost solely due to the playing of a
>then unknown guitarist named Stevie Ray Vaughan.
>Nile Rodgers (who produced that album) now admits
>that he told David that if he wanted bad ass
>blues guitar, he should at least get someone like
>Albert King, that people have at least heard of,
>instead of an unknown. Apparently, Nile needed a
>little more convincing than Bowie did.

Agree on your various (snipped) Frampton comments.
The outstanding track on the Let's Dance album for me
was China Girl and particularly Stevie Ray's solo.  (Mmm.)

>I need to get Heroes out again and give it a
>listen. Likewise for Lodger (which Belew played
>on). Anyone ever heard the live album that Bowie
>did around that time, Stage? How is it? I know
>both Belew and Hawkwind violinist Simon House are
>on it. Can you actually TELL they're on it,
>though?


Good question - Stage has a 'live' sound so much of the
instrumentation IS blurred into a massive wall of sound.
(It also has synth guy Roger Powell). Sides 3&4 (Disc 2
on the CD) are all from Low & Heroes and closes with a
rocking and rollicking version of Beauty The Beast. (Also Mmm.)

Cheers,
Scott M2

http://www.dreamSTATE.to
ambientelectronicsoundscapes
http://www.THEAMBiENTPiNG.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  9 10:39:10 2002
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Ahem David,

Any chance you'll be touring with Bowie this summer?
I have tickets for Area 2 here in Toronto, so my fingers are crossed...

Cheers,
Scott M2

http://www.dreamSTATE.to
ambientelectronicsoundscapes
http://www.THEAMBiENTPiNG.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  9 10:50:32 2002
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Hello group
..a bit off topic!
I'm searching for information of the glorious Dyno My Piano Tri Stereo 
Chorus unit: exact front panel knobs and parameters names/manual copy 
(I will pay for it)/digital photo where parameters knobs-switches can 
be actually seen. I've looked for days over the Net, all search 
engines,...only small photos and no info anywhere.
Please, e-mail me off list.
Thanks for your time

all the best
Italoop

___________________________________________
Italo De Angelis
Preset Design Engineer - Audio Division
italo@eventide.com
EVENTIDE AUDIO CUSTOMERS SUPPORT
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eventidehelps/

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  9 11:09:57 2002
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fwiw:
the recording opens w/ 'sunday', the beginning of which is just bowie..... 
and myself accompanying w/a performed loop.
best,
dt / splattercell

>http://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/09/arts/music/09PARE.html

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  9 11:12:35 2002
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scott@dreamstate.to writes:

>Any chance you'll be touring with Bowie this summer?
no chance:
8-(
i'm locked in a studio every day until august 20th.....

best,
dt / splattercell

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  9 12:06:38 2002
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A new DT album in sight?:-):-)


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Hedewa7@aol.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 5:10 PM
Subject: Re: Ahem! Excuse me DT


> scott@dreamstate.to writes:
> 
> >Any chance you'll be touring with Bowie this summer?
> no chance:
> 8-(
> i'm locked in a studio every day until august 20th.....
> 
> best,
> dt / splattercell
> 


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  9 13:47:07 2002
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I've got a Roland MC-307, and I have a love/hate relationship with it.  
The drum kits mostly sound good, it's got a great selection of 
TB909esque sounds, and some ravey stuff as well.  Very geared towards 
electronica for sure.  All the delays and time based effects 
automatically synch to your BPM, which is nice.  I've used it as an 
alternative sound source for my GR-30, and I've found the sounds are way 
more interesting.

I hate the fact that the pads are not touch sensitive, and there is no 
easy way to put an accent on a beat.  (except for groove quantize mode, 
which is a pain to deal with if you want something specific) Shame on 
you Roland.  My workaround is I never program from the unit itself, and 
use a midi controller instead.

I love the fact that it's got a lot of decent effects and a filter that 
can be controlled by a full complement of programmable knobs.  Great for 
live tweakage.

I hate the fact that you can't record knob movements in song mode, or 
add another track.

Only one kit at a time can can be a bit cramped.  I wish there were 
sounds like "toms" or "Snare" that you could layer over the drums on 
it's own track.

Turntable emulation lets you vary either tempo and pitch, or either 
separately.  This can give great effects in conjunction with an Electrix 
Repeater.  Tap tempo is nice too.

They're going fairly cheap, I've seen them at www.musiciansfriend.com 
for around $400 I think.  I'd say it was a good value for the money.

Mark Sottilaro


On Sunday, June 9, 2002, at 12:40  AM, marcus savino wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> What are your favorite drum machines and why?
>
> Thanks!!
> --
> _______________________________________________
> Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
> http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
>

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>Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 10:32:07 -0700
>To: BA New Music Events
>From: Tom Heasley <tom@tomheasley.com>
>Subject: KPFA Tonight
>
>Later this evening, at 10 P.M., following today's performance at the New 
>Music Works Avant Garden Party, I'll be interviewed by Dean Suzuki on 
>Discreet Music, KPFA, 94.1, www.kpfa.org.
>
>Tom Heasley
>NEW CD AVAILABLE:  On the Sensations of Tone,  (www.innova.mu)
>ALSO AVAILABLE:  Where the Earth Meets the Sky,  (www.hypnos.com)
>
>http://bayimproviser.com/TomHeasley
>427 Alma St., Suite 206
>Palo Alto, CA  94301
>P:  650.322.3633
>F:  419.831.3809
>E:  tom@tomheasley.com
>WEBSITE COMING SOON:  TOMHEASLEY.COM
>
>Upcoming Solo Concerts / Appearances:
>
>Sunday, June 9, 2002, 2 - 6 P.M. (my piece @ 3:50 P.M.)
>New Music Works Avant Garden Party: Perennials
>The Exquisite Gardens of Martha Benedict
>#2 Holland Drive
>Pasatiempo Estates
>Santa Cruz, CA
>Info: 831.429.2277
>
>Sunday, June 16, 2002  (Father's Day) 7:30 P.M.
>Solo Concert
>First Congregational Church of Berkeley
>2345 Channing Way (at Dana)
>Tickets at door:  $15.00 General / $10.00 Students, Seniors and Fathers
>
>Friday, June 21, 2002
>The Now Festival
>Goat Hall, San Francisco
>
>Saturday, July 20, 2002
>Solo Concert
>TUVA Space
>3192 Adeline
>Berkeley, CA
>Info:  510.655.9755
>
>
>Autumn 2002 Tour will include:
>
>Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY (10/3)
>Kalvos and Damian's New Music Bazaar, VT (10/5)
>Roulette, NYC
>The BBC, London, England


Tom Heasley
NEW CD AVAILABLE:  On the Sensations of Tone,  (www.innova.mu)
ALSO AVAILABLE:  Where the Earth Meets the Sky,  (www.hypnos.com)

http://bayimproviser.com/TomHeasley
427 Alma St., Suite 206
Palo Alto, CA  94301
P:  650.322.3633
F:  419.831.3809
E:  tom@tomheasley.com
WEBSITE COMING SOON:  TOMHEASLEY.COM

Upcoming Solo Concerts / Appearances:

Sunday, June 9, 2002, 2 - 6 P.M. (my piece @ 4:25 P.M.)
New Music Works Avant Garden Party: Perennials
The Exquisite Gardens of Martha Benedict
#2 Holland Drive
Pasatiempo Estates
Santa Cruz, CA
Info: 831.429.2277

Sunday, June 9, 2002, 10:00 P.M.
Radio Interview with Dean Suzuki
KPFA - FM  94.1
Berkeley, CA
www.kpfa.org

Sunday, June 16, 2002  (Father's Day) 7:30 P.M.
Solo Concert
First Congregational Church of Berkeley
2345 Channing Way (at Dana)
Tickets at door:  $15.00 General / $10.00 Students, Seniors and Fathers

Friday, June 21, 2002
The Now Festival
Goat Hall, San Francisco

Saturday, July 20, 2002
Solo Concert
TUVA Space
3192 Adeline
Berkeley, CA
Info:  510.655.9755


Autumn 2002 Tour will include:

Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY (10/3)
Kalvos and Damian's New Music Bazaar, VT (10/5)
Roulette, NYC
The BBC, London, England
--=====================_6333374==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
<br>
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite>Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 10:32:07
-0700<br>
To: BA New Music Events<br>
From: Tom Heasley &lt;tom@tomheasley.com&gt;<br>
Subject: KPFA Tonight<br><br>
Later this evening, at 10 P.M., following today's performance at the New
Music Works Avant Garden Party, I'll be interviewed by Dean Suzuki on
Discreet Music, KPFA, 94.1,
<a href=3D"http://www.kpfa.org.=A0/" eudora=3D"autourl">www.kpfa.org. </a>
<br><br>
<font face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D4><b><i>Tom Heasley<br>
</b></font><font face=3D"Comic Sans MS">NEW CD AVAILABLE:&nbsp; <u>On the=
 Sensations of Tone</u>,&nbsp; (<a href=3D"http://www.innova.mu/"=
 eudora=3D"autourl">www.innova.mu</a>)<br>
ALSO AVAILABLE:&nbsp; <u>Where the Earth Meets the Sky</u>,&nbsp; (<a=
 href=3D"http://www.hypnos.com/"=
 eudora=3D"autourl">www.hypnos.com</a>)<br><br>
</i></font><font face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D"#0000FF"><u><a=
 href=3D"http://bayimproviser.com/TomHeasley"=
 eudora=3D"autourl">http://bayimproviser.com/TomHeasley</a><br>
</u></font><font face=3D"Comic Sans MS">427 Alma St., Suite 206&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 <x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab><br>
Palo Alto, CA&nbsp; 94301<br>
P:&nbsp;=
 650.322.3633<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>=
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab><br>
F:&nbsp; 419.831.3809<br>
E:&nbsp; tom@tomheasley.com<br>
<i>WEBSITE COMING SOON:&nbsp; TOMHEASLEY.COM<br><br>
Upcoming Solo Concerts / Appearances:<br><br>
Sunday, June 9, 2002, 2 - 6 P.M. (my piece @ 3:50 P.M.)<br>
New Music Works Avant Garden Party: Perennials<br>
The Exquisite Gardens of Martha Benedict<br>
#2 Holland Drive<br>
Pasatiempo Estates<br>
Santa Cruz, CA<br>
Info: 831.429.2277<br><br>
Sunday, June 16, 2002&nbsp; (Father's Day) 7:30 P.M.<br>
Solo Concert<br>
First Congregational Church of Berkeley<br>
2345 Channing Way (at Dana)<br>
Tickets at door:&nbsp; $15.00 General / $10.00 Students, Seniors and=
 Fathers<br><br>
Friday, June 21, 2002<br>
The Now Festival<br>
Goat Hall, San Francisco<br><br>
Saturday, July 20, 2002<br>
Solo Concert<br>
TUVA Space<br>
3192 Adeline<br>
Berkeley, CA<br>
Info:&nbsp; 510.655.9755<br><br>
<br>
Autumn 2002 Tour will include:<br><br>
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY (10/3)<br>
Kalvos and Damian's New Music Bazaar, VT (10/5)<br>
Roulette, NYC<br>
The BBC, London, England</i></blockquote>
<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
<br>
</font><font face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D4><b><i>Tom Heasley<br>
</b></font><font face=3D"Comic Sans MS">NEW CD AVAILABLE:&nbsp; <u>On the=
 Sensations of Tone</u>,&nbsp; (<a href=3D"http://www.innova.mu/"=
 eudora=3D"autourl">www.innova.mu</a>)<br>
ALSO AVAILABLE:&nbsp; <u>Where the Earth Meets the Sky</u>,&nbsp; (<a=
 href=3D"http://www.hypnos.com/"=
 eudora=3D"autourl">www.hypnos.com</a>)<br><br>
</i></font><font face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D"#0000FF"><u><a=
 href=3D"http://bayimproviser.com/TomHeasley"=
 eudora=3D"autourl">http://bayimproviser.com/TomHeasley</a><br>
</u></font><font face=3D"Comic Sans MS">427 Alma St., Suite 206&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 <x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab><br>
Palo Alto, CA&nbsp; 94301<br>
P:&nbsp;=
 650.322.3633<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>=
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab><br>
F:&nbsp; 419.831.3809<br>
E:&nbsp; tom@tomheasley.com<br>
<i>WEBSITE COMING SOON:&nbsp; TOMHEASLEY.COM<br><br>
Upcoming Solo Concerts / Appearances:<br><br>
Sunday, June 9, 2002, 2 - 6 P.M. (my piece @ 4:25 P.M.)<br>
New Music Works Avant Garden Party: Perennials<br>
The Exquisite Gardens of Martha Benedict<br>
#2 Holland Drive<br>
Pasatiempo Estates<br>
Santa Cruz, CA<br>
Info: 831.429.2277<br><br>
Sunday, June 9, 2002, 10:00 P.M.<br>
Radio Interview with Dean Suzuki<br>
KPFA - FM&nbsp; 94.1<br>
Berkeley, CA<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.kpfa.org/" eudora=3D"autourl">www.kpfa.org</a><br><br>
Sunday, June 16, 2002&nbsp; (Father's Day) 7:30 P.M.<br>
Solo Concert<br>
First Congregational Church of Berkeley<br>
2345 Channing Way (at Dana)<br>
Tickets at door:&nbsp; $15.00 General / $10.00 Students, Seniors and=
 Fathers<br><br>
Friday, June 21, 2002<br>
The Now Festival<br>
Goat Hall, San Francisco<br><br>
Saturday, July 20, 2002<br>
Solo Concert<br>
TUVA Space<br>
3192 Adeline<br>
Berkeley, CA<br>
Info:&nbsp; 510.655.9755<br><br>
<br>
Autumn 2002 Tour will include:<br><br>
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY (10/3)<br>
Kalvos and Damian's New Music Bazaar, VT (10/5)<br>
Roulette, NYC<br>
The BBC, London, England</font></i></html>

--=====================_6333374==_.ALT--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  9 13:54:20 2002
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Subject: Re: FILM MUSIC STUFF
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On Saturday, June 8, 2002, at 03:51  AM, Rick Walker/Loop.pooL wrote:

>
> Another  great way to accomplish this is to go to a local university 
> with a
> good film professor,
> make an appointment and ask him to direct you to the most talented young
> student filmakers that he or she knows.   Approach them and offer to 
> score
> their film
> with your original music FOR FREE!!!!!
>

I did this while attending college at Syracuse University in NY, and 
found it to be a mixed experience.  I did work for a woman all semester 
that yielded the most evil techno remix of Danke Shoen you'll ever hear, 
and although my name hit the credits, I only found out it did when my 
friends saw the premiere! (I had not been invited)

I also had a deal with another student to create some music for him, in 
exchange for me to show his short film in my Music and Film class, as my 
final presentation.  He agreed, then would not hand over a copy of the 
film!  He kept asking for the music, but I kept saying, "Well, I'll kind 
of need to see the film to create anything for it." and he'd flake time 
and time again.  I finally gave up and rescored George Lucas's original 
20 minute version of THX-1138, which was lots of fun.

Mark Sottilaro

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  9 14:18:24 2002
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Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 14:16:27 EDT
Subject: Re: Ahem!  Excuse me DT
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Luigimeloni74@libero.it writes:

>A new DT album in sight?:-):-)
well, yes and no.
the finishment of the new splattercell disc has been delayed, until i 
complete this film-score.
thanks for asking.....
best,
dt / splattercell
imi-ibi

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  9 14:27:02 2002
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To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: The Best Live Drum Machine
Message-ID: <1023647133.3d039d9d977f1@www.suitandtieguy.com>
Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 14:25:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Williamson <erwill@suitandtieguy.com>
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i would strongly recommend you stay away from _any_ of the new 
(post-1995) Roland drum machines. they have impenetrable user 
interfaces for real-time rhythm composition and rely too heavily on the 
Sound Canvas synthesis engine for my taste. sorry mark, i'd never buy 
your mc307.

if 4/4, 3/4, 4/4 triplet feel are all you need, get a Korg Electribe ER-1. they're 
plenty cheap, and feature direct control over the percussion synthesis and 
realtime knob record. a good deal for 2 hundred bucks.

if you have more money, i'd go for an Elektron Machinedrum. i spent about 
5 hours with one in my studio last week and boy am i in love! this thing is 
just the bizzomb. all sorts of percussion synthesis, knob record (better 
than on the ER-1), anywhere from 1 to 32 steps per bar, great effects, and 
very high quality build. you get what you pay for, which would be about 
eleven hundred dollars.

those are my two favourites. yeah i know they're a little extreme on both 
sides, but those are the two most immediately accessible and 
programmable drum machines on the market. very easy to mute parts 
and write new ones.

no spending an hour trying to get into EDIT mode and still not finding it 
(true story. roland groovebox sp505). these two have excellent interfaces. i 
think that the Jomox xBase09 has a good interface, but i've never played 
one.

Eric Williamson
www.suitandtieguy.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  9 14:54:22 2002
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From: "Nic Roozeboom" <nicroozeboom@hotmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: DL4 question (overdub)
Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 11:50:42 -0700
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Feedback level in loop delay mode is not accessible to the user. The manual 
doesn't document exactly (it says the looped signal gets 'a little quieter' 
with every pass) but from what I can hear it uses a dynamic mechanism to 
determine feedback level: the louder the overdub signal level, the more the 
looped signal level is suppressed (thereby avoiding clipping). With zero 
input level though in overdub mode, feedback level is less than unity, 
resulting in a slow fade over many cycles. The whole thing works very nicely 
and unobtrusively.
Nic

>From: Greg Waltzer <gwaltzer@optonline.net>
>Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>Subject: DL4 question (overdub)
>Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 09:52:23 -0400
>
>In overdub mode, does it allow you to adjust the feedback level, so that
>the loop gradually fades away and is replaced by what is being played?




_________________________________________________________________
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  9 15:30:52 2002
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Subject: RE: The Best Live Drum Machine
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 12:29:43 -0700
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The Korg ES-1 is a really good one- you can load all your own samples-
very fun to work with- 

Some annoying points for me are no song loop feature, no odd time
signatures aside from triplets and unless you programmed a 4 and a 3 in
separate patterns then string them together in song mode- but then you
cant loop the song... 

I also have the ER-1 as someone else suggested- all in all the pros FAR
outweigh the cons IMO on these boxes- 

Cliff

> -----Original Message-----
> From: marcus savino [mailto:marcuskp@mail.com]
> Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 12:41 AM
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Subject: The Best Live Drum Machine
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> What are your favorite drum machines and why?
> 
> Thanks!!
> --
> _______________________________________________
> Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
> http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
> 


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  9 15:43:25 2002
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Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 15:42:09 -0500
Subject: OT: gear for sale on ebay (sherman, raven labs eq)
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i know i've already spammed the list with these items, 
but they're now on ebay for less than i had originally 
offered:

raven labs: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&item=882892325

sherman: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&item=882885165

thanks for the toleration!

-jim

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  9 16:07:29 2002
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Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 16:09:39 -0400
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From: just john <just-john@just-john.com>
Subject: RE: The Best Live Drum Machine
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>The Korg ES-1 is a really good one- you can load all your own samples-
>very fun to work with-

I was going to mention that one, too.  I've had far more fun than is good
for me with that unit.


---
* just-john@just-john.com  http://just-john.com/cn/rfe.shtml *

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  9 16:23:18 2002
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Subject: Re: new looping/sequencer/fx rack finished. 
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> Nice one Eric - check out: http://armatronix.com/studio.jpg - separated at 
> birth?  It looks like you've got me beaten by about eight spaces, though 
> (and a couple of synths).

glad to see we have some paralell development. we even have the same mixer. 
what's in your rack?

good choice with the 'plex. it's a great looper. i miss both of mine, i traded 
them for a hammond and a couple leslies.

> It's nice for shortening setup times, but it sure is heavy!  I've been 
> wondering a lot lately about whether I actually need to haul _all_ that 
> stuff around with me.

yeah you do. it makes us flexible, and strong. besides ... if i didn't have the 
big rack and the synths, i'd be carrying the hammond/leslie rig and that would 
_really_ be heavy.

Eric Williamson
www.suitandtieguy.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  9 16:32:30 2002
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Right, if you're looking to program your own sounds, forget anything 
Roland, I agree.  On the other hand, there's such a variety of sounds on 
board, I've yet to even feel the need for editing the sounds.  The Korg 
stuff is solid, but I rely too much on odd time signatures, and I feel 
it's a crime to not have built in that functionality.

But this brings up a point that I still kind of fight.  I used to spend 
hours doing sound design.  Tweaking my Korg DW8000 or Roland Juno 106 
until the cows came home.  While it was great fun, I started to realize 
how much time it took away from me actually playing.  Sure, if I was 
independently wealthy, and didn't have to put time into maintaining a 
relationship and having a social life, I'd be all over sound design.  
Something had to go, and that was it.  Luckily, there's some really 
great gear with huge libraries of sounds.  When I bought my Roland 
XV-5050, it took me weeks to fill my preset bank with the 128 sounds I 
liked.  Sure, I did tweak them all a little, but not building them from 
scratch, that's for sure.

One day, when I retire I'll buy what ever knob ridden monstrosity exists 
at the time, and tweak tweak tweak, but until then, I've got to get some 
actual playing in.  I'll conceder the people at Roland my collaborators 
until then.

Mark Sottilaro


On Sunday, June 9, 2002, at 11:25  AM, Eric Williamson wrote:

> i would strongly recommend you stay away from _any_ of the new
> (post-1995) Roland drum machines. they have impenetrable user
> interfaces for real-time rhythm composition and rely too heavily on the
> Sound Canvas synthesis engine for my taste. sorry mark, i'd never buy
> your mc307.
>
> if 4/4, 3/4, 4/4 triplet feel are all you need, get a Korg Electribe 
> ER-1. they're
> plenty cheap, and feature direct control over the percussion synthesis 
> and
> realtime knob record. a good deal for 2 hundred bucks.
>
> if you have more money, i'd go for an Elektron Machinedrum. i spent 
> about
> 5 hours with one in my studio last week and boy am i in love! this 
> thing is
> just the bizzomb. all sorts of percussion synthesis, knob record (better
> than on the ER-1), anywhere from 1 to 32 steps per bar, great effects, 
> and
> very high quality build. you get what you pay for, which would be about
> eleven hundred dollars.
>
> those are my two favourites. yeah i know they're a little extreme on 
> both
> sides, but those are the two most immediately accessible and
> programmable drum machines on the market. very easy to mute parts
> and write new ones.
>
> no spending an hour trying to get into EDIT mode and still not finding 
> it
> (true story. roland groovebox sp505). these two have excellent 
> interfaces. i
> think that the Jomox xBase09 has a good interface, but i've never played
> one.
>
> Eric Williamson
> www.suitandtieguy.com
>

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> purty! how the hell do you drag that around, though?

well this friday i had kate with me. here we are playing in january: 
http://www.suitandtieguy.com/sights/010502_katestg_13.jpg

it helps to play with another person.

> seriously though, it's way classy. beats the hell out of my pile of gator
> cases. i know how the slow setup thing goes too! i've been given "the talk"
> more than once. haha. then again i got half-yelled at for getting tranced out
> and playing double my set time without realizing it. like you say, oh well!

that's why i don't even bother playing parties. they never want to book me to 
begin with, and they always put me on at 3am after Death Squad has cleared the 
room of all punters.

punk rawk shows, bookstores, and coffee shops are my favourite places to play 
now.

Eric Williamson
www.suitandtieguy.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  9 17:28:28 2002
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Nah, now way.  You're rig is truly amazing.  One day I hope you find 
people who will help you move it.

Mark

On Saturday, June 8, 2002, at 01:46  AM, armatronix wrote:

> Damn you Mark!  That's basically my whole rig, in one little box.
>
> Anybody want to buy an 808 and a couple of EDP's, plus some other 
> miscellaneous junk?  I'll throw in the dolly for free. ;)
>
> -Hans
>
>
> At 00:15 08/06/2002, you wrote:
>> hey, I came upon this today:
>>
>> http://www.rolandus.com/products/details.asp?catid=4&subcatid=0&prodId=MC-09
>>
>> Mark Sottilaro
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  9 17:37:38 2002
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From: Chris Richards <kohntarkosz@yahoo.com>
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<<Stage was my door to what i call "my" music.
  it was the listening of that record which made 
 me curious about a that certain gtr player
(belew) who i really deeply love (know Twang Bar
King ?).>>

I bought Twang Bar King when I was about 12 or
13. I had read about Belew in the January 84
issue of Guitar Player (anyone remember that
cover shot of him with one of his hyper
customized Fender Mustangs with the Roland G
series guitar electronics?) and then subsequently
heard some of his work with King Crimson. Believe
it or not MTV actually aired a concert from the
Three Of A Perfect Pair tour. 

A year or two later, a used copy of Twang Bar
King turned up at my favorite used record
emporium (which, sadly, closed it's doors 8 years
ago). I distinctly remember begging my mom for
the money to buy the record, and my dad asking
why I can't just tape it off the radio
(apparently, he's never tried to tape an ENTIRE
ALBUM off the radio, nor cared to look album
artwork, read the liner notes, lyrics, etc). I
remember liking the "pop" songs, but was mainly
attracted by Ade's guitar playing and his "weird'
stuff (ie She Is Not Dead, Ballet For A Blue
Whale, etc).

Last year, I got the album out again after not
listening to it many years. Unfortunately, it's
now has a few scratches on it, but apart from
that, it's still a stunner. I had completley
forgotten how great it is, and was taken aback
especially by the songwriting!!! Particularly, I
was stunned by The Rail Song. I'm sure I didn't
really comprehend what that song was about when I
was 12, but this time, listening to the song
brought tears to my eyes! 

Last Fall, I saw several King Crimson shows, and
at the show in Detroit, I brought Twang Bar King
and had Adrian sign (his signature looks EXACTLY
like the way his name is written on that album
cover, btw) and he mentioned that he's trying to
get it reissued on CD. I told him if he's
successful at that, I'll be the first in line!
:-)


=====
May you never thirst!
The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris

"What do you get when you give a yo-yo to a flock of flamingos?"-James Earl Jones

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  9 18:06:11 2002
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Mark Sottilaro wrote:
> 
> Nah, now way.  You're rig is truly amazing.  One day I hope you find
> people who will help you move it.

He did.  And my hands have never been the same since...!

Just kidding, Hans.  (I hope!)

:P

--Andre

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  9 18:25:44 2002
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Chris wrote:
> I told him if he's
> successful at that, I'll be the first in line! :-)
and i would be the second !
luca


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  9 20:49:39 2002
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Subject: Adrian Belew's Twang Bar King
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> ...and he mentioned that he's trying to
> get it reissued on CD. I told him if he's
> successful at that, I'll be the first in line!

Me second, me second.  I've always loved that album and especially
"The Ideal Woman".  I would also love to hear "Lone Rhino" reissued
("Big Electric Cat", et al).  Though most of both of these (as well
as "Desire Caught by the Tail") exist on a compilation disc called
"Desire of the Rhino King".  On CD, SACD, DVD-A, or whatever format 
they care to.  I guess I need to pull out my vinyl...

Oops, me third.
-- 
I remain,
:-Peter aka :-Dusty :-Chalk

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On Sunday, June 9, 2002, at 02:35  PM, Chris Richards wrote:
>
> I bought Twang Bar King when I was about 12 or
> 13. I had read about Belew in the January 84
> issue of Guitar Player (anyone remember that
> cover shot of him with one of his hyper
> customized Fender Mustangs with the Roland G
> series guitar electronics?) and then subsequently
> heard some of his work with King Crimson.

I came upon Adrian via Laurie Anderson's Mr. Heartbreak album.  Played 
for me by the older brother of my friend/guitar player Brian Sugent.  A 
year later, I was interning for Roma Baron on the preproduction of Home 
of the Brave.  Spent most of my days in the studio with that Fender 
Mustang and the man himself.  Very blessed was I, a young pup at the 
time.

> Believe
> it or not MTV actually aired a concert from the
> Three Of A Perfect Pair tour.

Are you thinking of the bizzare "Joan Jet" and friends show?  I was 
shocked when I caught that on MTV.  King Crimson opening up for Joan 
Jett.  Will wonders ever cease?

Mark Sottilaro

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  9 22:35:53 2002
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Subject: Powered Speakers for sale
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Hey kids,

I'm selling my Peavey Powered speakers.  I don't want to ship them (too 
heavy) so I put them on Craig's list  (SF Bay area)  I can bring them to 
you, if you're in the area.

here's the link for more info:

http://www.craigslist.org/sfo/for/4216583.html

Mark Sottilaro

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun  9 22:55:34 2002
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Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 22:58:13 -0400
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Subject: Re: Adrian Belew's Twang Bar King
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>> ...and he mentioned that he's trying to
>> get it reissued on CD. I told him if he's
>> successful at that, I'll be the first in line!
>
>Me second, me second.  I've always loved that album and especially
>"The Ideal Woman".  I would also love to hear "Lone Rhino" reissued
>("Big Electric Cat", et al).  Though most of both of these (as well
>as "Desire Caught by the Tail") exist on a compilation disc called
>"Desire of the Rhino King".  On CD, SACD, DVD-A, or whatever format
>they care to.  I guess I need to pull out my vinyl...
>
>Oops, me third.

Me fourth ...

I also appreciate his drumming!  Both on "Lone Rhino..." and that ProjeKCt
disk.


I saw him in a tour with Zappa.  On one number, he wore a tin cone on his
head and pretended to be a robot.  Frank "remote control"-led him by
playing guitar.
---
* just-john@just-john.com  http://just-john.com/cn/rfe.shtml *

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At 13:22 09/06/2002, you wrote:
> > Nice one Eric - check out: http://armatronix.com/studio.jpg - separated at
> > birth?  It looks like you've got me beaten by about eight spaces, though
> > (and a couple of synths).
>
>glad to see we have some parallel development. we even have the same mixer.
>what's in your rack?

Gear :)

Here's a better shot of the CPU:  http://armatronix.com/rack.jpg

On the left side, starting from the top:

Furman
EDP
Mackie LM-3204 line mixer
Yamaha PB1 bass preamp (rear-panel input and front-panel selectable 
hi-pass/full-range/lo-pass out added)
MAM VF-11 vocoder
Rane SM26 splitter/mixer (monitor split)
dbx 266A compressor/gate
dbx 1046 quad compressor/limiter

right side:

Furman
TC Electronics D-Two digital delay
Ibanez AD202 analog delay (rear-panel I/O added)
Ibanez UE400 multi-effects (same plus front-panel effects switching added)
Ibanez UE405 multi-effects (same)
MXR/ART digital reverb
Symetrix phase filter
Crown VFX2A crossover (one channel for sub-bass LPF, second channel for 
analog delay send HPF)


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 10 00:16:27 2002
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<<There's an interesting interview w/ Tony
Visconti in the new Tape Op that talks quite a
bit about his collaborations w/ Bowie, from Ziggy

to Low/Heroes to the new disc.>>

I wish someone would ask him about working with
Thin Lizzy. Oh come on!!! After defending
Frampton, you HAD to know that I was gonna bring
that up! :-) Seriously, the only time I've ever
heard Visconti talk about working with Thin Lizzy
was a short article in GP a couple years where he
basically claimed that the only things that
weren't overdubbed on Live And Dangerous (long
considered by myself to be one of the all time
great live albums) were the drums and audience
noise. So much for "live albums". 

=====
May you never thirst!
The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris

"What do you get when you give a yo-yo to a flock of flamingos?"-James Earl Jones

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 10 02:55:34 2002
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Subject: Re: Best Drum Machine
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 21:32:43 -0700
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I have a couple of solutions:


I have been programming drum machines since the early eighties and the one
thing that has always bugged me about
them is that most all but the very expensive ones are closed architecture,
meaning that you are stuck with the sounds in
the unit.    Because musical trends come and go, this means that you are
usually stuck with the flavor of the month
(does anyone ever have to hear a Roland TR 909 sound again in a techno
piece?).

Sooooo,   my advice is:

1)buy a drum machine that has really good midi implementation and
flexibility (I love my
Alesis SR16 which can be had for $199 brand new and has the suckiest most
overused sounds in the world
and then have it trigger either:

        a)   a dedicated drum module------Alesis DM4s or DM5 can be had
inexpensivelly
         and have the added bonus of having the ability to plug audio
triggers into the back as midi triggers----cheapest way to
         get an electronic drumset on the entire market ---- or:

        b) and preferably,  a sampler module.   With a sampler module you
can constantly upgrade your sounds with the coolest things
         and, as in my case,  create your own idiosyncratic drum or
percussion sounds (ever sampled a frisbee struck by a that is      abolutely
one of the coolest kick drum sounds on the planet, IMHO).    Samplers can be
expensive, but a great thing to do
          is to go out and buy an older used sampler.............The Akai
s950 , as an example,  is only a 12 bit machine (though it used
         16 bit filters) and , for some inexplicable reason,  sounds
FANTASTIC with drum and percussion sounds..............so does
         the old EMU  SP12 or SP1200 although these machines are so popular
with hip hoppers that their prices have become
        ridiculously inflated.         If you are really on a budget (I've
always put together high tech kits as cheaply as I could afford)
         there are used casio and yahmaha home market (non-pro) keyboards
that you can find at flea markets for a song that
         have surprisingly good drum kits in them.........you just trigger
them with midi from your drum machine.


or, what I do for my live shows (when I'm not playing my own drum sounds
live which I mostly do)

 2)     Use the best software drum machine in the world,  FRUITY LOOPS
PRO...............which will load any sound from
.wav or .aiff files (there are thousands of sounds for free on the
web.............try the fabulous drum machine museum for a
great source of sounds) and has incredibly simple and intuitive process and
mangling available in the program..........................
create your own songs (make them 5 minutes longer than you would EVER use
them live for) and burn them to a CD.
Then, take a portable CD player to your gig and use up two channels on your
board for fabulous stereo sounds.
I even use this method and then loop the results so that I have syncability
with my loopers and processing effects.

Have fun,

Rick Walker (loop.pool)

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Subject: Aurisis Research Announces LoopIV for the Gibson Echoplex
  Digital Pro
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Hi Loopers and EDP fans-

It has been a long wait, but hopefully worth it. We at Aurisis are very 
pleased to announce...... LoopIV!


PRESS RELEASE

Aurisis Research Announces LoopIV for the Gibson Echoplex Digital Pro

OAKLAND, CA, June 10, 2002,  - Aurisis Research today announced the release 
of LoopIV for the Gibson Echoplex Digital Pro. LoopIV, the fourth 
generation of Aurisis Research's revolutionary Loop(tm) software for 
Looping and Real-Time Sampling, can be installed in any Gibson or Oberheim 
Echoplex Digital Pro as an upgrade. With LoopIV, the legendary Echoplex 
Digital Pro becomes even more of a looping powerhouse, bursting with new 
Looping and Real-Time Sampling features never before experienced in any 
product, anywhere. LoopIV is available for purchase directly from Aurisis 
Research's web site, at http://www.aurisis.com.

According to innovative composer and guitarist David Torn (aka 
Splattercell), "For those of you who take your live-looping (and 
the-editing-thereof-on-the-fly) seriously, the release of Aurisis 
Research's LoopIV upgrade for the EDP is a momentous occasion: truth. 
Consider yourself to be some lucky l'il loopy ducks to have LoopIV's 
personalisable & hyper-malleable, fuck-with-it depth available to ya. There 
are features in this new vision of a looping-instrument that will allow you 
to further your EDP techniques well into what promises to be a very 
intriguing sonic future, indeed. Thankee too much, Aurisis: dude! dude."

In addition to all the functionality of previous versions of Loop available 
in the Echoplex, A few of the new LoopIV features are:

    Half Speed - instantly change loop speed at any time
    Substitute - Replace portions of the loop while it still plays
    Real-Time Granular Looping
    Presets - store and recall parameter settings
    New InterfaceModes - Replace, Flip, Stutter, Expert, Input
    LoopDividing - work on rhythmic subdivisions of a loop in real-time
    LoopWindowing - Move loop windows over a larger loop
    Sync ReAlign - Shift loops in and out of alignment with external loops
    SyncRecord - Easily record in sync without quantizing
    Tempo Select - set the BPM before recording
    AutoRecord into multiple loops, on the fly
    Expanded MIDI control
    Full Sysex implementation
    Tempo and Continuous Controller displays
    Much, Much, Much more.

A complete feature list, downloadable manual, and audio examples can be 
found at Aurisis Research's web site, http://www.aurisis.com.

LoopIV brings sophisticated looping features to the performing musician, 
wrapped in an easy to use, performance oriented interface. Designed from 
the ground up for real-time use, LoopIV allows musicians to easily 
accomplish sophisticated looping techniques while otherwise engaged in 
playing their instrument. No other looping product makes real-time looping 
as seamless and fluid as LoopIV.

"The LoopIV software upgrade takes the already deep architecture of the 
Echoplex Digital Pro and expands it to a mind-boggling degree," says modern 
guitarist and looping master Andre LaFosse (http://www.altruistmusic.com). 
"Dramatically powerful MIDI performance control, innovative new options for 
quantization and timing, and utterly unique user interface modes are just 
some of the breakthroughs in the new OS. LoopIV reinvigorates the EDP's 
status as a singularly deep, seamless and performance-oriented musical 
instrument. For practitioners of hip-hop, electronica, IDM, glitch-core, 
ambient, or most any other musical style that favors the loop, this is a 
real-time tool with a depth and flexibility that has yet to be surpassed."

Aurisis Research began developing Loop over eleven years ago, creating an 
innovative new looping product years ahead of it's time. The Gibson Guitar 
Corporation recognized the potential of Loop and licensed it to become the 
Oberheim Echoplex Digital Pro in 1994. (Later changing the name to Gibson 
Echoplex Digital Pro.) The new LoopIV generation of Loop has been in 
development for five years, building on a decade of customer feedback and 
interaction with some of the most innovative musicians in the world.

"We observed that users develop very different styles and applications with 
Loop," explains Matthias Grob, original inventor of Loop and Co-Founder of 
Aurisis Research. "So we pushed the instant user interface to the limits. 
At any moment any button can do something useful and intuitive. If that is 
not enough for you, there are new InterfaceModes and MIDI commands to 
extend the interface. You can study them or not, take it easy or go deep, 
use one part or another, the machine leaves it open."

"LoopIV represents the cutting edge of looping technology, and has taken an 
extraordinary amount of creative energy and engineering skill to produce," 
says Kim Flint, Co-Founder of Aurisis Research. "Our beta testers have been 
making some amazing music with LoopIV so far, and we are thrilled to 
finally bring this technology to the rest of the music world."

LoopIV is available only as an upgrade for existing Gibson or Oberheim 
Echoplex Digital Pro hardware. It can be purchased direct from Aurisis 
Research and is easily installable by end users. This release is being done 
in agreement with Gibson Guitar. LoopIV upgrades are priced at $99.95. 
Purchases can be made online from the Aurisis Research web site at 
http://www.aurisis.com.

About Aurisis Research (http://www.aurisis.com):
Founded in 1997 by Matthias Grob, Kim Flint, and Eric Obermuhlner, Aurisis 
Research has continued the work on Looping technology begun by Matthias 
Grob in the early 1990's. Aurisis Research develops electronic musical 
instrument technologies for license to major Musical Instrument 
manufacturers, such as the Echoplex Digital Pro created for the Gibson 
Guitar Corporation. Aurisis is widely recognized for their innovative and 
pioneering looping products. Aurisis Research is based in Oakland, CA, with 
offices in Brazil and Switzerland.

For more information, please contact
Kim Flint
Aurisis Research
info@aurisis.com
http://www.aurisis.com



______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 10 05:41:06 2002
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Subject: Re: Aurisis Research Announces LoopIV for the Gibson Echoplex  Digital Pro
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Kim,

Congratulations & thanks to you & Matthias. My order
is in. I hope you are richly rewarded for your
efforts.

Now, about LOOP V....... :)

John


--- Kim Flint <kflint@loopers-delight.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Loopers and EDP fans-
> 
> It has been a long wait, but hopefully worth it. We
> at Aurisis are very 
> pleased to announce...... LoopIV!


=====
John Tidwell




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
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Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 06:53:23 -0500
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That's great!  I will put my order in right away.

Steve

> 
> Hi Loopers and EDP fans-
> 
> It has been a long wait, but hopefully worth it. We at 
> Aurisis are very 
> pleased to announce...... LoopIV!
> 
> 
> PRESS RELEASE

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 10 08:15:59 2002
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Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 08:17:52 -0400
From: David Beardsley <db@biink.com>
Subject: NYC: 6.12.2002, Microtonal guitar at Chama
To: the_ambient_way@yahoogroups.com, The Wire List <thewire@onelist.com>,
        powerspot@yahoogroups.com, MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com,
        extremeNY@topica.com, lowercase-sound@yahoogroups.com,
        "Looper's Delight Mailing List" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>,
        "3/2, 7/4, 9/8..." <tuning@onelist.com>
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 DAVID BEARDSLEY

Microtonal Just Intonation guitar, fretless guitar, 
echoes, loops, drones and minimalism.

Wednesday June 12th, 2002
8 p.m., $2.00

Chama
332 East 4th Street, between Aves C & D
East Village, NYC 646-654-6472

"Phenomenal is one thought. Deep modern meditational tool is another." 
Pat Pagano, dir. Southeast Just Intonation Society, Gainesville, Fl.

http://biink.com


* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

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From: "Bill Fox" <billfox@fast.net>
To: "emusic-wdiy Mailing List" <emusic-wdiy@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: EMUSIC Playlist #272
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 10:26:13 -0400
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[ Best viewed using a fixed spacing font. ]

EMUSIC is an electronic, ambient, and space music show, that airs each Thursday
at 11:04 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and Bethlehem, PA and 93.9 FM in Easton,
PA and Phillipsburg, NJ.

                    Show #272                    June 6, 2002.


RECAP:
On this show, I began a month-long focus on Amir Baghiri, who creates ambient
music laced with tribal, world, and industrial influences.  The Featured CD at
midnight was "City," the first disc from "The Bluebox Collection" on the Arya
label.

The vinyl show starter was from the LP "Paradise" by Robert Scroder on the IC
label.

I played the music of The Ministry of Inside Things who will be performing at
the next event in the Soundscapes Concert Series on June 22.  Details can be
seen on the Events page.

Amir Baghiri
http://wdiyfm.org/programs/emusic/playlists/2002/focus02.html#jun
Ministry of Inside Things     http://wdiyfm.org/programs/emusic/events.html


PLAYLIST:

ARTIST                  TRACK                    ALBUM (label)
======================= ======================== ==============================
11:04 pm
Robert Scroder          Timeless                 Paradise (IC)
Martin, Klamt, Rownd    Canyon Voices            Convergence (Spotted Peccary)
Ministry of Inside      The Edge of the          Live at the Phila. Museum
  Things                  Wilderness               (Synkronos)
Robert Rich             Lapis                    Shambala (Space for Music)
Max Corbacho            Magenta Beauty           The Resonant Memory of Earth
                                                   (Space for Music)
Alhedion                Part III                 Kosmische Spuren Eines Lebens
                                                   (Invisible Shadows)
Amir Baghiri            Entrance                 City (Arya)

12:00 am
Amir Baghiri            Bye or Die               City (Arya)
Amir Baghiri            Escalator to Nowhere     City (Arya)
Amir Baghiri            Creeping Emptiness       City (Arya)
                          Over the Street
Amir Baghiri            www.pace-maker           City (Arya)
Amir Baghiri            Black Friday             City (Arya)
Amir Baghiri            Fading Lights            City (Arya)
Amir Baghiri            Mandala of a City        City (Arya)
Amir Baghiri            Moon Cars                City (Arya)
Amir Baghiri            Dream Your Own Dreams    City (Arya)
Amir Baghiri            Requiem for a God        City (Arya)
Amir Baghiri            Stoned Mother            City (Arya)
Amir Baghiri            Lizzy Loves Dad          City (Arya)
Amir Baghiri            Exit                     City (Arya)

1:00 am

 * = exerpt
VA = Various Artists (compilation)


NEXT SHOW:
On the next EMUSIC, I'll continue the month-long focus on Amir Baghiri.  The
Featured CD at Midnight will be "Live," the second disc from "The Bluebox
Collection" on the Arya label.

The vinyl show starter will be from the LP "Departure from the Northern
Wasteland" by Michael Hoenig on the Kuckuck label.

I will play the music of the Ministry of Inside Things who will perform at the
Soundscapes Concert Series on June 22.


Bill
===============================================================================
Host of EMUSIC, an electronic, ambient, and space music show.  Thursdays at
11 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and Bethlehem and 93.9 FM in Easton and
Phillipsburg.  http://wdiyfm.org/programs/emusic
Host of the AM/FM show on WMUH 91.7 FM every other Saturday at 6 am.
Email me before submiting music for airplay consideration.     billfox@fast.net
Radio Station Home Pages:   http://wdiyfm.org    http://www.muhlenberg.edu/wmuh
Personal site: http://www.users.fast.net/~billfox
To subscribe to the EMUSIC on WDIY list, go to
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/emusic-wdiy and click on [Join This Group!]
SOUNDSCAPES Concert Series: http://www.tadream.net/soundscapes

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 10 10:56:23 2002
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adding my $.02:
i love mine for sure.
of course, paying less is always better...
but if you're sending it back for the upgrade, i'd strongly suggest paying 
mike nelson an extra $10 for a backup power supply. it's not your typical 
wall wart, replacements are just about impossible to find on a moment's 
notice (which is exactly when you'll need it, if your luck is anything like 
mine! ;-)

a:c


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 10 12:42:55 2002
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Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 09:37:18 -0700
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>
>I wish someone would ask him about working with
>Thin Lizzy. Oh come on!!! After defending
>Frampton, you HAD to know that I was gonna bring
>that up! :-) Seriously, the only time I've ever
>heard Visconti talk about working with Thin Lizzy
>was a short article in GP a couple years where he
>basically claimed that the only things that
>weren't overdubbed on Live And Dangerous (long
>considered by myself to be one of the all time
>great live albums) were the drums and audience
>noise. So much for "live albums".

Your wish is granted in the TapeOP interview. Visconti says the disc 
is 20% live, 80% overdubbed. He talks in some detail about the 
sessions. I guessthey didn't intend to do so many overdubs, it all 
started with Lynott redoing his bass parts and snowballed from there. 
Some of the tracks were recorded at soundchecks, so they even had to 
overdub the audience!
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Trenkel                                New and Improv Music
http://www.newandimprov.com         improv@peak.org
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 10 13:35:07 2002
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Subject: RE: Aurisis Research Announces LoopIV for the Gibson Echoplex  Digital Pro
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 13:31:17 -0400
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Thanks fellas,

Appreciate the work that you've put into this, we all know it's been a
long time comin.  

Aurisis just got 104.95 of my hard earned bread.


Looking forward to the upgrade, the confusion of what to do next, the
intrigue, the drama, the midi-mayhem, the
half-speed-slow-loop-love-fests.

Thanks for the comprehensive upgrade manual, it looks like it explains
the new features in depth.


Be well,

D




Thanks and best regards,

Dylan DeAnda
dylan@loudcloud.com
703-653-6883
"What is it men cannot be made to believe!"
-Thomas Jefferson




-----Original Message-----
From: Kim Flint [mailto:kflint@loopers-delight.com] 
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 4:42 AM
To: loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Aurisis Research Announces LoopIV for the Gibson Echoplex
Digital Pro


Hi Loopers and EDP fans-

It has been a long wait, but hopefully worth it. We at Aurisis are very 
pleased to announce...... LoopIV!


PRESS RELEASE

Aurisis Research Announces LoopIV for the Gibson Echoplex Digital Pro

OAKLAND, CA, June 10, 2002,  - Aurisis Research today announced the
release 
of LoopIV for the Gibson Echoplex Digital Pro. LoopIV, the fourth 
generation of Aurisis Research's revolutionary Loop(tm) software for 
Looping and Real-Time Sampling, can be installed in any Gibson or
Oberheim 
Echoplex Digital Pro as an upgrade. With LoopIV, the legendary Echoplex 
Digital Pro becomes even more of a looping powerhouse, bursting with new

Looping and Real-Time Sampling features never before experienced in any 
product, anywhere. LoopIV is available for purchase directly from
Aurisis 
Research's web site, at http://www.aurisis.com.

According to innovative composer and guitarist David Torn (aka 
Splattercell), "For those of you who take your live-looping (and 
the-editing-thereof-on-the-fly) seriously, the release of Aurisis 
Research's LoopIV upgrade for the EDP is a momentous occasion: truth. 
Consider yourself to be some lucky l'il loopy ducks to have LoopIV's 
personalisable & hyper-malleable, fuck-with-it depth available to ya.
There 
are features in this new vision of a looping-instrument that will allow
you 
to further your EDP techniques well into what promises to be a very 
intriguing sonic future, indeed. Thankee too much, Aurisis: dude! dude."

In addition to all the functionality of previous versions of Loop
available 
in the Echoplex, A few of the new LoopIV features are:

    Half Speed - instantly change loop speed at any time
    Substitute - Replace portions of the loop while it still plays
    Real-Time Granular Looping
    Presets - store and recall parameter settings
    New InterfaceModes - Replace, Flip, Stutter, Expert, Input
    LoopDividing - work on rhythmic subdivisions of a loop in real-time
    LoopWindowing - Move loop windows over a larger loop
    Sync ReAlign - Shift loops in and out of alignment with external
loops
    SyncRecord - Easily record in sync without quantizing
    Tempo Select - set the BPM before recording
    AutoRecord into multiple loops, on the fly
    Expanded MIDI control
    Full Sysex implementation
    Tempo and Continuous Controller displays
    Much, Much, Much more.

A complete feature list, downloadable manual, and audio examples can be 
found at Aurisis Research's web site, http://www.aurisis.com.

LoopIV brings sophisticated looping features to the performing musician,

wrapped in an easy to use, performance oriented interface. Designed from

the ground up for real-time use, LoopIV allows musicians to easily 
accomplish sophisticated looping techniques while otherwise engaged in 
playing their instrument. No other looping product makes real-time
looping 
as seamless and fluid as LoopIV.

"The LoopIV software upgrade takes the already deep architecture of the 
Echoplex Digital Pro and expands it to a mind-boggling degree," says
modern 
guitarist and looping master Andre LaFosse
(http://www.altruistmusic.com). 
"Dramatically powerful MIDI performance control, innovative new options
for 
quantization and timing, and utterly unique user interface modes are
just 
some of the breakthroughs in the new OS. LoopIV reinvigorates the EDP's 
status as a singularly deep, seamless and performance-oriented musical 
instrument. For practitioners of hip-hop, electronica, IDM, glitch-core,

ambient, or most any other musical style that favors the loop, this is a

real-time tool with a depth and flexibility that has yet to be
surpassed."

Aurisis Research began developing Loop over eleven years ago, creating
an 
innovative new looping product years ahead of it's time. The Gibson
Guitar 
Corporation recognized the potential of Loop and licensed it to become
the 
Oberheim Echoplex Digital Pro in 1994. (Later changing the name to
Gibson 
Echoplex Digital Pro.) The new LoopIV generation of Loop has been in 
development for five years, building on a decade of customer feedback
and 
interaction with some of the most innovative musicians in the world.

"We observed that users develop very different styles and applications
with 
Loop," explains Matthias Grob, original inventor of Loop and Co-Founder
of 
Aurisis Research. "So we pushed the instant user interface to the
limits. 
At any moment any button can do something useful and intuitive. If that
is 
not enough for you, there are new InterfaceModes and MIDI commands to 
extend the interface. You can study them or not, take it easy or go
deep, 
use one part or another, the machine leaves it open."

"LoopIV represents the cutting edge of looping technology, and has taken
an 
extraordinary amount of creative energy and engineering skill to
produce," 
says Kim Flint, Co-Founder of Aurisis Research. "Our beta testers have
been 
making some amazing music with LoopIV so far, and we are thrilled to 
finally bring this technology to the rest of the music world."

LoopIV is available only as an upgrade for existing Gibson or Oberheim 
Echoplex Digital Pro hardware. It can be purchased direct from Aurisis 
Research and is easily installable by end users. This release is being
done 
in agreement with Gibson Guitar. LoopIV upgrades are priced at $99.95. 
Purchases can be made online from the Aurisis Research web site at 
http://www.aurisis.com.

About Aurisis Research (http://www.aurisis.com):
Founded in 1997 by Matthias Grob, Kim Flint, and Eric Obermuhlner,
Aurisis 
Research has continued the work on Looping technology begun by Matthias 
Grob in the early 1990's. Aurisis Research develops electronic musical 
instrument technologies for license to major Musical Instrument 
manufacturers, such as the Echoplex Digital Pro created for the Gibson 
Guitar Corporation. Aurisis is widely recognized for their innovative
and 
pioneering looping products. Aurisis Research is based in Oakland, CA,
with 
offices in Brazil and Switzerland.

For more information, please contact
Kim Flint
Aurisis Research
info@aurisis.com
http://www.aurisis.com



______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 10 13:41:24 2002
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Just bought mine too. Looking forward to it very much. 

Thanks a lot for this labor of love



    _/      _/  _/_/_/  _/  _/
   _/_/    _/  _/      _/  _/
  _/  _/  _/  _/_/    _/  _/
 _/    _/_/  _/      _/  _/
_/      _/  _/_/_/  _/  _/_/_/


 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 10 14:06:17 2002
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Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 14:03:34 EDT
Subject: Re: Aurisis Research Announces LoopIV for the Gibson Echoplex  Digital Pro
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Thanks for all the hard work Kim, et al.

You'll have my order for 2 chips just as soon as I have the $$$.

Gotta buy the kids shoes first.

Heh, heh, heh.

Ted

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 10 14:23:48 2002
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To: BA New Music Discussion <ba-newmus@ella.mills.edu>,
        Loopers Delight - List <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
From: Tom Heasley <tom@tomheasley.com>
Subject: CD Review
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Hi,

A review of my new CD is to be found at:

http://www.ambientrance.org/0602/hea-otsot.html.

See ya,

TH

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 10 15:01:12 2002
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References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020610013334.02504780@aurisis.com>
Subject: edp volume pedal
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 13:48:42 +0100
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so i read up on volume pedals for the edp and bought the recommended unit,
boss fv-50L but i don't like it at all.  first of all, the pedal is tiny (i
wear a size 13 shoe) and the taper is far from smooth compared to my ernie
ball.  of course, the mono e.b. won't work but has anybody tried the 6167
with the edp or changed the pot in their mono/stereo pedals?

fwiw: i've got the mode set to "out" instead of controlling feedback with
the pedal.

basically, i'm looking for a GOOD alternative to the boss.

-jim


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 10 15:07:29 2002
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ArsOcarina@aol.com wrote:

> Thanks for all the hard work Kim, et al.
>
> You'll have my order for 2 chips just as soon as I have the $$$.
>
> Gotta buy the kids shoes first.
>
> Heh, heh, heh.
>
> Ted

where are your priorities, man? it's summer. MY kid's going barefoot for
the next two months!

:o)

lance g.


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 10 15:54:06 2002
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Subject: Re: The Best Live Drum Machine
From: Beatrice and Matthew Jasper <jasp@metrocast.net>
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How about this:    A HR-16B w/ an expansion chip that pops into the HR-16 to
double the amount of drum pads available and integrate both machines at the
sequencing level.  Midi out from this goes to a procussion and an RX-5 and
an Akai S900 with the individual outs of the rx-5 & S900 going via little
colored patch cables into six inputs on a Tama Techstar 305 analog drum unit
and a Roland Space Drum .....The techstar has two rows of pad/trigger ins so
it is also triggered by an 8 gang switch rotary mechanical thing going at
maybe 60 rpm.  Additional patterns are fed in by an MMT-8.....

> From: "marcus savino" <marcuskp@mail.com>
> Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 02:40:47 -0500
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Subject: The Best Live Drum Machine
> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 03:44:23 -0400
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> What are your favorite drum machines and why?
> 
> Thanks!!
> -- 
> _______________________________________________
> Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
> http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
> 
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 10 16:00:55 2002
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Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 12:56:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Greg House <ghunicycle@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: alto music
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I bought a Repeater from Alto and also had a good transaction. Great
price, very prompt shipment, no hassles. I'd recommend them.

Greg


--- JIMFOWLER@prodigy.net wrote:
> www.altomusic.com
> 
> i bought my edp from them and couldn't be more pleased 
> with the transaction.
> 
> -jim
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 10 16:05:30 2002
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Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 13:02:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: Greg House <ghunicycle@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Line level vs instrument level EDP etc
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--- "William R. Walker," <chillyb@cruzio.com> wrote:
> I've read many comments from edp, jamman and rptr users complaining
> about interface issues with instrument level sources (ie guitar amps
> etc). <snip>

> The solution would be to place some kind of
> transformer/line level shifter between the instrument and thelooper,
> and
> the looper and the amp. You want to step up the signal from -10 to +4
> going
> in to the  looper, and step it back down comming out of the looper in
> to the amp. Ebtech makes such a device 

Given that this problem is so common, you'd think the equipment
designers would help us out a bit by providing SWITCHABLE INPUT LEVELS.
It stinks that I have to buy another $70 and add yet another hunk of
electronics to my rig when it would be very easy for them to simply
provide a switch so that it could be used in a very common user
configuration.

Greg

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 10 16:41:05 2002
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Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 13:38:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: petr <pepetr@yahoo.com>
Subject: CDs with looping content available on MP3
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I just made my two new CDs available at MP3.com.  If interested,
please visit:

http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/229/petr_dolak_samojsky.html
http://www.geocities.com/pepetr

PERFECT STRANGERS: GREETINGS FROM TECHNOPOLY
This work is an imaginary confession of, in the words of Albert
Camus, the naked one facing the Absurd.  The main theme is
peculiarity of life, when perceived from a certain angle.  This
concept album offers stories musically dressed up in strange suits
and coats.  Death, friendship, trust, relationships and other issues
are explored bluntly and with a dose of humor.

TRAILS FOR THE ANCIENTS
A joint project of Petr and Dana Lightsey.  The main inspiration for
this peaceful and yet inquisitive album comes from three North
American sacred spaces: Pawnee Buttes, Mesa Verde, and Devil's Tower.
 This is a CD which you can listen to attentively, put it on as you
meditate, or use it as a background ambient music.




=====






Nasledujici oznameni je bohuzel nevyhnutelne.  V zadnem pripade ale neznamena, ze bych osobne chtel propagovat tuto spolecnost.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 10 16:41:06 2002
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Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 16:39:57 -0400
Subject: 256MB CFC for Repeater/128MB for sale
From: David Myers <dmgraph@earthlink.net>
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Been off the list for a while now, but just ducking in momentarily with some
pertinent Repeater info.

I bought a 256MB CFC for the Repeater and it would not work properly.  I
received the following response from Electrix:

>Hello David,
>Sorry for the delay. Our engineering group has been working to resolve this
>issue. Apparently they are still at a lose as to why certain  256MB cards will
>not work. One engineer sent me a list of what he has confirmed as working and
>not working:
 
>Item: STI-CF/256                 Description: COMPACT FLASH CARD 256MB TYPE I

>Pass:

>91000-00870-004  
>91000-00934-004  
>91000-00934-404 
>91000-00992-007
>91000-00992-027 
>91000-40422-001
 
>Fail:
 
>91000-40414-000  
 
>At this time I can only suggest swapping for a different build and avoid using
>the 40414 part. I'll keep you posted if we fix the failing part...
 
>Best Regards, 
 
>Jason T Smith 

Mine was indeed a 40414.  I suggested to Jason that they should consider
getting me a replacement, since it seems to be their engineering problem--no
response.  However, I sent this email to SimpleTech and they were princes
about it, immediately replacing my card.  So if anyone has problems, go to
SimpleTech directly, for sure.  Good for them!

Now, I purchased a 128MB card to tide me over the 256 trouble and no longer
find I need it.  Any Repeater owners who want a barely used 128MB card for
$50 shipped, please email me directly.  I paid $80 plus tax locally (NYC).
Again, email me directly--the volume of mail over LD is what made me
retreat...


David Lee Myers
dmgraph@pulsewidth.com
http://www.pulsewidth.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 10 16:55:54 2002
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From: Greg House <ghunicycle@yahoo.com>
Subject: Where do you play?
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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--- Eric Williamson <erwill@suitandtieguy.com> wrote:
> punk rawk shows, bookstores, and coffee shops are my favourite places
> to play now.

It appears that a lot of people on this list play non-mainstream style
music. What are good venues for this? Eric mentiones a couple here (not
sure how punk shows fits, but maybe his music is a lot different then
mine). How do you go about getting shows? Trot around demo tapes and
beg? (reminds me of the old rock band days..it didn't work very well
then...)

Greg

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 10 17:17:35 2002
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Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 14:13:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Greg House <ghunicycle@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Aurisis Research Announces LoopIV for the Gibson Echoplex  Digital Pro
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--- Kim Flint <kflint@loopers-delight.com> wrote:

> It has been a long wait, but hopefully worth it. We at Aurisis are
> very pleased to announce...... LoopIV!

Congratulations! 

How long will it be before LoopIV is available on new Gibson EDP units?
I presume there's some back stock that will have to filter through.

Greg

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 10 17:26:39 2002
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I've found the bringing demo tapes to clubs thing is mostly a waste of
time until you can pretty much guarantee filling up a club.  Depending on
your local, there may be artist run co ops and or non profits that are
always looking for acts.  The plus, is that usually the sky's the limit
musically.  The negative is, they money is usually low to non existent.
Another tactic that works is to find a more established band/performer and
form a relationship with them, playing the part of the opening band.  If
you're A) Good B) Reliable and C) Persistent, it should eventually pay
off.

Mark

Greg House wrote:

> --- Eric Williamson <erwill@suitandtieguy.com> wrote:
> > punk rawk shows, bookstores, and coffee shops are my favourite places
> > to play now.
>
> It appears that a lot of people on this list play non-mainstream style
> music. What are good venues for this? Eric mentiones a couple here (not
> sure how punk shows fits, but maybe his music is a lot different then
> mine). How do you go about getting shows? Trot around demo tapes and
> beg? (reminds me of the old rock band days..it didn't work very well
> then...)
>
> Greg
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
> http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 10 18:33:41 2002
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Subject: Re: Where do you play?
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 17:36:11 -0000
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try hooking up with the local fine arts community in your area...for
example, we basically started our own "scene" when I wrote a proposal and
submitted it to the art insitute in kansas city...I made a compelling
argument and laid out the way it would work, established some admin and
logistic parameters, etc., and we have the campus auditorium once per month
for shows...maybe more frequently as it takes off (still very early on into
this..but you gotta start somewhere)...try rounding up all the musicians in
your region, form a coallition of sorts, and approach a venue operator about
having "your night" once per month for starters then gearing up as interest
increases...

there are some other thoughts on this and my original propsal you can read
at
http://kronosonic.com

ie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg House" <ghunicycle@yahoo.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 8:54 PM
Subject: Where do you play?


> --- Eric Williamson <erwill@suitandtieguy.com> wrote:
> > punk rawk shows, bookstores, and coffee shops are my favourite places
> > to play now.
>
> It appears that a lot of people on this list play non-mainstream style
> music. What are good venues for this? Eric mentiones a couple here (not
> sure how punk shows fits, but maybe his music is a lot different then
> mine). How do you go about getting shows? Trot around demo tapes and
> beg? (reminds me of the old rock band days..it didn't work very well
> then...)
>
> Greg
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
> http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 10 19:54:53 2002
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Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 19:51:22 EDT
Subject: Re: CD Review
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Nice review Tom. Congratulations! I'm sorry 
I didn't hear more of your set a Loopstock.

Best,

Ted

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 10 20:13:16 2002
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Subject: Re: LoopIV/E-mail question 
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 17:18:15 -0700
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LoopIV!
Cool!  I ordered.  PayPal was painless.  I've been getting "basic" with the
DL4 recently, so this will be a good rediscovery!

E-mail question: I'm on the Delight Digest, and recently switched from an
old Mac/Netscape to pc/Outlook Express.  Formerly, I could just read all the
messages contained in the digest, now all messages appear in attachments (I
have to open each to read...it's just fortunate that I caught the LoopIV
info!)

I asked Kim about the email, and he said:
"there has been no change to the digest. It is sent as MIME encoded digest
format, same as it has always been sent. Most mail programs offer several
options for how MIME digests are viewed. You may need to check the
preferences of your mail program for that - it sounds like your mail
program is showing MIME digests to you in a way you don't like."

I talked with my server, and he said Outlook Extpress just does it that way
(MIME as attachments).  Hassle.  I can live with it, but wonder if anyone
has any suggestions?  Surely there are others on Outlook Express...what are
you doing?   Maybe I should just not do digest...

thnx, David Auker

----- Original Message -----
>Aurisis Research Announces LoopIV for the Gibson Echoplex Digital Pro


> Hi Loopers and EDP fans-
>
> It has been a long wait, but hopefully worth it. We at Aurisis are very
> pleased to announce...... LoopIV!


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 10 20:51:30 2002
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> > Hi All,
> >
> > What are your favorite drum machines and why?

My drummer. :-)

D.G.

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Subject: Re: Line level vs instrument level EDP etc
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i think a simple a/b box (with "both" function) would 
do the trick.  just set mix to 100% dry and have one 
side of the signal going to the edp, the other 
bypassing it completely.

i'm sure you could find a cheap-ish a/b box on ebay.

just a thought...

-jim

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The Elektron Machinedrum looks awful cool
and I hear it can also be programmed to hit
on the guitarist's girlfriend as well as dish out
random beats and rolls while the keyboardist
attempts to discuss chord changes.

> What are your favorite drum machines and why?

Meanwhile I'm still trying to get some mileage out of
a Yamaha RX-11 and a Korg DSM sampler....
(oooooohhh......   one meg sample ram !....
but it does have 16 individual outs)
--
gary
@friendlyspider.com


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 10 23:01:00 2002
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Subject: RE: Aurisis Research Announces LoopIV for the Gibson Echoplex  Digital Pro
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 22:59:03 -0400
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Got my order in...happy as pie that the 'feedback display' idea is in
there (hey, *my* name isn't in the manual for that!). Seriously, can't
wait for this one...I already got the manual printed up to read until my
chips of doom arrive.

Dave Eichenberger
http://www.hazardfactor.com
 
 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 10 23:18:24 2002
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Subject: Re: Aurisis Research Announces LoopIV for the Gibson Echoplex  Digital Pro
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insisto ... pedile el loop a Lulu !!!  hago el upgrade y tengo dos bombas
!!!   dale , se buenito ...  dale !  si !!!

ciegus


>
> Hi Loopers and EDP fans-
>
> It has been a long wait, but hopefully worth it. We at Aurisis are very
> pleased to announce...... LoopIV!
>
>
> PRESS RELEASE
>
> Aurisis Research Announces LoopIV for the Gibson Echoplex Digital Pro
>
> OAKLAND, CA, June 10, 2002,  - Aurisis Research today announced the
release
> of LoopIV for the Gibson Echoplex Digital Pro. LoopIV, the fourth
> generation of Aurisis Research's revolutionary Loop(tm) software for
> Looping and Real-Time Sampling, can be installed in any Gibson or Oberheim
> Echoplex Digital Pro as an upgrade. With LoopIV, the legendary Echoplex
> Digital Pro becomes even more of a looping powerhouse, bursting with new
> Looping and Real-Time Sampling features never before experienced in any
> product, anywhere. LoopIV is available for purchase directly from Aurisis
> Research's web site, at http://www.aurisis.com.
>
> According to innovative composer and guitarist David Torn (aka
> Splattercell), "For those of you who take your live-looping (and
> the-editing-thereof-on-the-fly) seriously, the release of Aurisis
> Research's LoopIV upgrade for the EDP is a momentous occasion: truth.
> Consider yourself to be some lucky l'il loopy ducks to have LoopIV's
> personalisable & hyper-malleable, fuck-with-it depth available to ya.
There
> are features in this new vision of a looping-instrument that will allow
you
> to further your EDP techniques well into what promises to be a very
> intriguing sonic future, indeed. Thankee too much, Aurisis: dude! dude."
>
> In addition to all the functionality of previous versions of Loop
available
> in the Echoplex, A few of the new LoopIV features are:
>
>     Half Speed - instantly change loop speed at any time
>     Substitute - Replace portions of the loop while it still plays
>     Real-Time Granular Looping
>     Presets - store and recall parameter settings
>     New InterfaceModes - Replace, Flip, Stutter, Expert, Input
>     LoopDividing - work on rhythmic subdivisions of a loop in real-time
>     LoopWindowing - Move loop windows over a larger loop
>     Sync ReAlign - Shift loops in and out of alignment with external loops
>     SyncRecord - Easily record in sync without quantizing
>     Tempo Select - set the BPM before recording
>     AutoRecord into multiple loops, on the fly
>     Expanded MIDI control
>     Full Sysex implementation
>     Tempo and Continuous Controller displays
>     Much, Much, Much more.
>
> A complete feature list, downloadable manual, and audio examples can be
> found at Aurisis Research's web site, http://www.aurisis.com.
>
> LoopIV brings sophisticated looping features to the performing musician,
> wrapped in an easy to use, performance oriented interface. Designed from
> the ground up for real-time use, LoopIV allows musicians to easily
> accomplish sophisticated looping techniques while otherwise engaged in
> playing their instrument. No other looping product makes real-time looping
> as seamless and fluid as LoopIV.
>
> "The LoopIV software upgrade takes the already deep architecture of the
> Echoplex Digital Pro and expands it to a mind-boggling degree," says
modern
> guitarist and looping master Andre LaFosse (http://www.altruistmusic.com).
> "Dramatically powerful MIDI performance control, innovative new options
for
> quantization and timing, and utterly unique user interface modes are just
> some of the breakthroughs in the new OS. LoopIV reinvigorates the EDP's
> status as a singularly deep, seamless and performance-oriented musical
> instrument. For practitioners of hip-hop, electronica, IDM, glitch-core,
> ambient, or most any other musical style that favors the loop, this is a
> real-time tool with a depth and flexibility that has yet to be surpassed."
>
> Aurisis Research began developing Loop over eleven years ago, creating an
> innovative new looping product years ahead of it's time. The Gibson Guitar
> Corporation recognized the potential of Loop and licensed it to become the
> Oberheim Echoplex Digital Pro in 1994. (Later changing the name to Gibson
> Echoplex Digital Pro.) The new LoopIV generation of Loop has been in
> development for five years, building on a decade of customer feedback and
> interaction with some of the most innovative musicians in the world.
>
> "We observed that users develop very different styles and applications
with
> Loop," explains Matthias Grob, original inventor of Loop and Co-Founder of
> Aurisis Research. "So we pushed the instant user interface to the limits.
> At any moment any button can do something useful and intuitive. If that is
> not enough for you, there are new InterfaceModes and MIDI commands to
> extend the interface. You can study them or not, take it easy or go deep,
> use one part or another, the machine leaves it open."
>
> "LoopIV represents the cutting edge of looping technology, and has taken
an
> extraordinary amount of creative energy and engineering skill to produce,"
> says Kim Flint, Co-Founder of Aurisis Research. "Our beta testers have
been
> making some amazing music with LoopIV so far, and we are thrilled to
> finally bring this technology to the rest of the music world."
>
> LoopIV is available only as an upgrade for existing Gibson or Oberheim
> Echoplex Digital Pro hardware. It can be purchased direct from Aurisis
> Research and is easily installable by end users. This release is being
done
> in agreement with Gibson Guitar. LoopIV upgrades are priced at $99.95.
> Purchases can be made online from the Aurisis Research web site at
> http://www.aurisis.com.
>
> About Aurisis Research (http://www.aurisis.com):
> Founded in 1997 by Matthias Grob, Kim Flint, and Eric Obermuhlner, Aurisis
> Research has continued the work on Looping technology begun by Matthias
> Grob in the early 1990's. Aurisis Research develops electronic musical
> instrument technologies for license to major Musical Instrument
> manufacturers, such as the Echoplex Digital Pro created for the Gibson
> Guitar Corporation. Aurisis is widely recognized for their innovative and
> pioneering looping products. Aurisis Research is based in Oakland, CA,
with
> offices in Brazil and Switzerland.
>
> For more information, please contact
> Kim Flint
> Aurisis Research
> info@aurisis.com
> http://www.aurisis.com
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
> kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com
>

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Congratulations Matthias , Kim and Eric  !!! good health and keep on looping
!!!
julio



From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun 11 00:51:07 2002
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Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 21:51:25 -0700
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From: Dave Trenkel <improv@peak.org>
Subject: Re: The Best Live Drum Machine
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>  > What are your favorite drum machines and why?
>
I'm currently following the RAID method (Redundant Array of 
Inexpensive Drummachines): A Roland MC303 driving an ER-1 and a Nord 
Micromodular, and the occasional drum loop stored in the Repeater. 
It's really flexible to have drum/percussion sounds coming from a lot 
of sources, it gives a lot of possibilities to layer and process 
sounds.

The Nord may not be your first thought as a drum machine, but it's 
pretty great: step sequencers that can be combined to make patterns 
of any length (Why do so many drum machines just allow you to do 4/4 
or 3/4?! If the ER-1 allowed odd time sigs, it'd be my favorite), and 
a really flexible, totally programmable sound generator. I have a 
collection of patches that do drum/percussion sounds and patterns, if 
anyone's interested.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Trenkel                                New and Improv Music
http://www.newandimprov.com         improv@peak.org
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 23:02:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Richards <kohntarkosz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: E-mail hangups
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To the person using Outlook Express and finding
the attachment system to be a hassle, I suggest
you get a Yahoo e-mail address. It's free, and
your mail box is 6 megs. I believe the default
settings when you first open your account are set
to have attachments appear automatically. For
instance, if someone sends me a jpeg, when I open
the mail, the picture appears at the bottom below
the e-mail itself. 

=====
May you never thirst!
The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris

"What do you get when you give a yo-yo to a flock of flamingos?"-James Earl Jones

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun 11 02:23:49 2002
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> To the person using Outlook Express and finding
> the attachment system to be a hassle, I suggest
> you get a Yahoo e-mail address. (,,,)Chris

I'm that person - on a tip from Jon Wagner, I found Outlook Express' ability
to filter messages to specific folders (Tools>>MessageRules>>Mail for the
filters).  (No digest, as I would still be seeing everything as attachment,
but at least all the messages will pile up in the same location :-)

David



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<<I came upon Adrian via Laurie Anderson's Mr. 
  Heartbreak album.>>

I REMEMBER THAT ALBUM!!! After reading that
article in Guitar Player, I saw that it mentioned
Mr Heartbreak in his "selected discography", so
when I saw it at the library, I borrowed it. I
remember listening to Sharkey's Day, and there's
this guitar solo at the beginning of the song
that sounds like a circular saw going nuts or
something like that. I heard that, and
immediately said "THAT's ADRIAN!!!". The other
thing that stands out for me about that album is
that William S Burroughs did the vocal on the
closing song, Sharkey's Night. Well, this is how
green I was, I didn't even know who William S
Burroughs was!!! I mean, I was all of about 12 or
so at the time, but I didn't know the name, and
I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have known the names
of any of his books (not even Naked Lunch or The
Soft Machine). So, I'm listening to this track,
and I'm picturing an old black guy doing the
spoken word thing there! I think that's the only
time I've ever heard anything and thought "That
guy sounds black!". :-)


<< A year later, I was interning for Roma Baron
on the preproduction of Home of the Brave.  Spent
most of my days in the studio with that Fender 
Mustang and the man himself.>>

But he had it refinished by then, right? There
were two different guitars, both of which, I
think were originally painted by the guy who did
the cover for Twang Bar King. Then later, he
either had another one done, or had at least one
of them refinished, because I remember seeing
photos of him playing a blue one (the Twang Bar
King/Three Of A Perfect Pair guitars were
primarily white and black).

> Believe it or not MTV actually aired a concert
from the Three Of A Perfect Pair tour.

 Are you thinking of the bizzare "Joan Jet" and 
 friends show?  I was shocked when I caught that
on MTV. King Crimson opening up for Joan 
 Jett.  Will wonders ever cease?>>

I have absolutely no recollection of what you're
talking about. No, the concert I'm talking about
was a video release that Crimson put out called
Live In Japan. MTV, basically took, and it edited
it down to about an hour (it was originally more
like 90 minutes long), cutting out a number of
songs, including Red, Larks Tongues pts. 2 and 3
(no, they didn't do part 1), Industry, and Man
With A Open Heart. I had no idea they had played
these songs on this show until years later, when
I bought a bootleg video of the show (before
Discipline reissued it) and saw a long set list
on the back cover than what was on the video.
There's some great "candid" moments at the start
of the video, of each band member, Bill Bruford
exclaims "The very same jacket that brought you
Larks Tongues In Aspic!", and there's also a
couple great bits of Adrian getting some VERY
sweet sounds from his gear at soundcheck. 

Anyway, as far as I can remember, MTV aired the
Crimson thing as one of the regular Saturday
Night Concerts. 

But come to think of it, I also remember seeing
King Crimson on TV on a show on, I think, the
Showtime channel. They showed them playing
Sleepless and one other song that I didn't know.
I remember that's where I first saw Bruford's
Simmons electronic drumkit of doom. What he did
was, he had a regular Simmons SDS-7 drumkit, and
he took five of the pads, and had them set up to
mirror his acoustic drum set, so he had two
snares (one acoustic, one electronic), I think
just three Simmons tom toms (can't remember if he
had acoustic toms as well), and a double bass
drum rig (one acoustic and one electronic). Then,
he had the other seven pads mounted vertically
behind him, and he had to stand up to play them
(I later read he did that so that audience
members could connect movements he made with his
hands to the respective sounds that they heard).
On this show, though, it seemed like he had way
more than seven drum pads mounted behind him. I
didn't realize it was only seven until I saw a
brochure at a local music store for Simmons,
where Bruford explained the setup (this was a
four page thing that also had a piece on Cyndi
Lauper's drummer, and I think an essay written by
some nerd who worked for Simmons, and had a photo
of a Simmons rig with like 12 or 13 pads mounted
on what looked like synthesizer stands, and it
folded out to a huge poster of a drawing of an
anonymous drummer playing a similiar over the top
Simmons rig). 

Anyway, as I recall, this show (which as I said,
I THINK aired on Showtime, but it might have been
HBO instead) would usually show like 2 or 3 bands
on each show, so maybe that's where you saw Joan
Jett and Crimson on the same show (I have no idea
who else was on this show that I saw, I only
remember Crimson). 

Getting back to Belew, any of you guys ever see
the Electronic Guitar instructional video he put
out around this same time period? We didn't have
a VCR back then, and as far as I know, this thing
is long out of print, but I so badly wanted to
see it. I remember seeing the ads for it on MTV,
I think they played a clip of Paint The Road, as
Adrian basically plugs the video. I keep my eye
out for it on E-bay, but the bids are always up
to like 40 bucks!!! :-| 

=====
May you never thirst!
The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris

"What do you get when you give a yo-yo to a flock of flamingos?"-James Earl Jones

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun 11 02:37:22 2002
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From: Chris Richards <kohntarkosz@yahoo.com>
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<<I also appreciate his drumming!  Both on "Lone 
  Rhino..." and that ProjeKCt disk.>>

The ProjeKct Two double CD studio release was
really good, but I really prefered the four CD
ProjeKcts box, which is all live (well most of it
is, I think Pat Mastelletto said he did some
creative studio tinkering on the ProjeKct Three
and ProjeKct Four discs). If you listen to the
last track on the ProjeKct Two disc, you can hear
my voice. Listen for the words "Get a rope!"
(explanation: some SOB decided to test Fripp's
resolve about the no photography rule, by
snapping a flash photo, and Fripp got up and
walked off in the middle of the piece they were
playing. The other two musicians soon followed,
and there were assorted cries in the audience
like "GET THE F***ER WITH THE CAMERA!!!" and
"PLEASE COME BACK! WE'RE SORRY!"...I also hurled
some expletives in the direction of the person
who took the photo, which may or may not be on
the disc, I just know that I did make the
suggestion that we should string this turkey with
the camera up from a very high tree and that made
it in). 

=====
May you never thirst!
The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris

"What do you get when you give a yo-yo to a flock of flamingos?"-James Earl Jones

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun 11 02:48:33 2002
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Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 23:46:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Richards <kohntarkosz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Visconti interview
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<<Your wish is granted in the TapeOP interview. 
  Visconti says the disc is 20% live, 80%
overdubbed. He talks in some detail about the 
sessions. I guessthey didn't intend to do so many

overdubs, it all started with Lynott redoing his
bass parts and snowballed from there. Some of the
tracks were recorded at soundchecks, so they even
had to overdub the audience!>>

Yeah, I remember someone telling me one of the
songs was recorded at a soundcheck, and then gave
enough of a hint that suggested that it was
Southbound, because he said you can hear the
audience noise fade out at the beginning of the
song, like it was cross fading from a live
recording to the soundcheck (which I guess would
also be live, just not in front of a crowd). I
also read one interview where Scott Gorham, one
of the guitarists, said that the only overdubs on
Live And Dangerous were the back up vocals on
Boys Are Back In Town, because he and Brian
Robertson ran around the stage so much that
they'd be out of breath by the time the chorus
came up and they couldn't sing on key, so they
had to overdub it. 

I'll have to check that out. I'd actually like to
hear he has anything interesting to say about the
other Thin Lizzy records he worked on. I would
wonder what he has to say about the Bad
Reputation, Black Rose and Chinatown sessions.
Especially Black Rose, as that is one of my all
time favorite records. 


=====
May you never thirst!
The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris

"What do you get when you give a yo-yo to a flock of flamingos?"-James Earl Jones

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun 11 03:51:57 2002
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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 00:47:06 -0700
From: Andre LaFosse <altruist@earthlink.net>
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O List,

I have now entered my pretentious prog-rock double-album noodle-fest phase:

http://www.altruistmusic.com/ram/ttgtr2.ram
http://www.altruistmusic.com/ram/ttgtr3.ram
http://www.altruistmusic.com/ram/ttgtr1.ram

These are "Continuous DJ Mixes" improvised using a LoopIV-mongering EDP
and guitar.  They sort of sound like '70s Miles Davis remixed by Aphex
Twin or Basement Jaxx.  The obligatory "all live, no edits, no overdubs"
manifesto applies here, of course.  They were all done in Stutter mode,
using Insert=SUS to stretch sections of a loop within a single cycle (a
technique not mentioned in the manual, as it happens!)  Quantize was
actually off most of the time, so I was "riding bareback" insert-wise.

I'll no doubt pull these once the sheer wank-dom factor sinks in and I
come to my senses, but in the meantime you're welcome to listen in...

--Andre LaFosse
http://www.altruistmusic.com
IMI-IBI

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun 11 04:58:29 2002
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Subject: Re: Loopers-Delight-d Digest V02 #340
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 09:35:19 +0100
Organization: EarthLight Productions
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"Dave Trenkel" <improv@peak.org> put forth:
> >
> >I wish someone would ask him about working with
> >Thin Lizzy. Oh come on!!! After defending
> >Frampton, you HAD to know that I was gonna bring
> >that up! :-) Seriously, the only time I've ever
> >heard Visconti talk about working with Thin Lizzy
> >was a short article in GP a couple years where he
> >basically claimed that the only things that
> >weren't overdubbed on Live And Dangerous (long
> >considered by myself to be one of the all time
> >great live albums) were the drums and audience
> >noise. So much for "live albums".
>
> Your wish is granted in the TapeOP interview. Visconti says the disc
> is 20% live, 80% overdubbed. He talks in some detail about the
> sessions. I guessthey didn't intend to do so many overdubs, it all
> started with Lynott redoing his bass parts and snowballed from there.
> Some of the tracks were recorded at soundchecks, so they even had to
> overdub the audience!

I think the most infamous overdubbed "live" album had to have been "Queen
Live".  It was not only overdubbed, but claimed to use "no synthesizers and
no tapes" on the liner notes.  It's obvious during a listen that tapes of
Freddie Mercury's voice are used for items like "Bohemian Rhapsody" (and
obvious that they'd have to be used in such a situation, if not a choir!);
the thing that drives the nails home on this one is that the taped portions
sound in the mix like they're being monitored from the back of the hall, as
well as attenuated down from the rest of the vocals.

It was a bit like a schoolboy announcing before he reads his theme that
"this is completely original!", before starting off with, "Four score and
seven years ago..."

Stephen P. Goodman
EarthLight Productions
*
http://www.earthlight.net/Studios - The Free Loop of the Week!
http://www.earthlight.net/Gallery_Front.html - Cartoons!
http://www.earthlight.net/HiddenTrack.html - More Cartoons!

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun 11 08:46:38 2002
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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 08:46:21 -0400
Subject: Re:Re: Aurisis Research Announces LoopIV for the Gibson Echoplex 
	Digital Pro
From: Steve Sandberg <stevesandberg@earthlink.net>
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Congratulations, guys.  I've just ordered two and am looking forward to lots
of explorations . . .


> It has been a long wait, but hopefully worth it. We at Aurisis are
>> very pleased to announce...... LoopIV!

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun 11 09:09:43 2002
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From: "Luigi Meloni" <Luigimeloni74@libero.it>
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Subject: DB with DT
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:04:34 +0200
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Messaggio in formato MIME composto da più parti.

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Hi all. Just got the last David Bowie. Great work DT. Sunday is a =
masterpiece. Love the way the voice of mr Bowie interacts with your =
guitar loops. I think there are snippetts of DT loops in various songs, =
but Sunday is really one of my favourite songs.

Peace
Luigi


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi all. Just&nbsp;got the last David =
Bowie. Great=20
work DT. Sunday is a masterpiece. Love the way the voice of mr Bowie =
interacts=20
with your guitar loops. I think there are snippetts of DT loops in =
various=20
songs, but Sunday is really one of my favourite songs.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Peace</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Luigi</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C21159.4BFF9DC0--


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun 11 09:27:16 2002
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References: <20020611063552.13139.qmail@web12301.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re:More Belew related stuff
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:25:18 +0200
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The funny (not so much) thing is that I saw King Crimson the last year in
Rome and basically happened the same thing. The difference is that the
blockhead with the machine was one of the press photographers that were
there and entered the concert free. Basically the only people that had a
photographic machine were professional press photographers who entered for
free and had the seat booked in the first line of seats, just under the
stage. Luckily this all happened in the bis section, when all the band
entered back in the stage, so, at least, we all (the paying audience) had a
good show 'till that moment.

Peace
Luigi
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Richards" <kohntarkosz@yahoo.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 8:35 AM
Subject: Re:More Belew related stuff


> <<I also appreciate his drumming!  Both on "Lone
>   Rhino..." and that ProjeKCt disk.>>
>
> The ProjeKct Two double CD studio release was
> really good, but I really prefered the four CD
> ProjeKcts box, which is all live (well most of it
> is, I think Pat Mastelletto said he did some
> creative studio tinkering on the ProjeKct Three
> and ProjeKct Four discs). If you listen to the
> last track on the ProjeKct Two disc, you can hear
> my voice. Listen for the words "Get a rope!"
> (explanation: some SOB decided to test Fripp's
> resolve about the no photography rule, by
> snapping a flash photo, and Fripp got up and
> walked off in the middle of the piece they were
> playing. The other two musicians soon followed,
> and there were assorted cries in the audience
> like "GET THE F***ER WITH THE CAMERA!!!" and
> "PLEASE COME BACK! WE'RE SORRY!"...I also hurled
> some expletives in the direction of the person
> who took the photo, which may or may not be on
> the disc, I just know that I did make the
> suggestion that we should string this turkey with
> the camera up from a very high tree and that made
> it in).
>
> =====
> May you never thirst!
> The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris
>
> "What do you get when you give a yo-yo to a flock of flamingos?"-James
Earl Jones
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
> http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
>
>


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun 11 11:31:31 2002
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To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: A very strange day...
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      Sure it has been a strange day for me today...


       I met the french Porno Star Ovidie today in the street,she is a girl with
a degree in Philosophy (no kidding...) that just happens to make porno films,she
was walking her dog on a sunny Paris morning...

  Later, I went to La Pedale a very cool little shop in Paris that sells just
Pedals, every brand that you can imagine I just crossed the stor'e door and who
do I see inside?? ROGER LINN!!!! (I think I don't have to say whi HE is)
   I got to have a 20 minute PERSONAL demonstration of his new cool
Adrenalinn.and he was interested in Looping when I showed him some tricks with
his box and a Boomerang they have there.

   He told me he has no plans to reissue any of his old stuff whatsoever and
he'll concentrate his efforts in developing stuff like this box. The
adrenalinn,by the way has some very cool features and the warmest filters I ever
heard on a digital box. A bit pricey,I think (470 Euros) but I'd definately buy one.


   Back to lurking mode,

  Andy

-------------------------------------------------
Obtén tu correo en www.correo.unam.mx
UNAMonos Comunicándonos


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Subject: Re: The Best Live Drum Machine
From: Mark Hamburg <mark_hamburg@baymoon.com>
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on 6/10/02 9:51 PM, Dave Trenkel at improv@peak.org wrote:

> The Nord may not be your first thought as a drum machine, but it's
> pretty great: step sequencers that can be combined to make patterns
> of any length (Why do so many drum machines just allow you to do 4/4
> or 3/4?! If the ER-1 allowed odd time sigs, it'd be my favorite), and
> a really flexible, totally programmable sound generator. I have a
> collection of patches that do drum/percussion sounds and patterns, if
> anyone's interested.

I keep trying to be tempted by the ER-1. My three big concerns are time
signatures, wishing that it had more synthesized drums and fewer PCM samples
(you could now chime in and tell me that the PCM stuff is useful thereby
resolving that concern), and the fact that a variety of parameters like
swing can only be edited while it's stopped.

I've got an MC-505 that is insufficiently "immediate" for me to be really
happy with it.

I haven't worked myself up to just splurge on a Machinedrum though I keep
coming back to thinking about it.

I also wonder at times about sixteenth-note quantization and whether it
makes things sound too mechanical. Certainly the Machinedrum demos sound
very mechanized. (Too be expected from a product named "Machinedrum"?)

Current drum sources in my studio:

* Roland MC-505 -- Rarely used.

* Emu Planet Earth -- A lot of great stuff but I haven't found a great way
to access it. I just started playing with the arpeggiators with the drum
kits and it's pretty cool if not all that programmable.

* Roland Handsonic -- Pretty poor sequencer on it but a lot of fun to bang
on.

Buried in a closet, I've got a Korg DDM-220 (SuperPercussion).

I had an SR-16 that I sold because I never got comfortable with the pads and
hence never programmed patterns on it.

I had a Korg DDD-1 that I sold because it was a bit noisy and its MIDI
implementation was crash prone. I've recently listened back to some old
tapes, however, and while the DDD-1 definitely sounded synthetic it was also
easy to program with some pretty cool drum riffs.

Finally, I worry on occasion about a comment that I heard at Loopstock (from
Max?) that I do find might be true: When the drum machines get turned on,
the audience stops paying attention. (Rough paraphrase.) So, one of the
other questions is how to make live drum machine use work well while playing
other instruments.

Mark

P.S. If asked, I'd identify myself as a guitar player.

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From: Andrew Pask <andrew@kaleidacousticon.com>
Subject: Re: A very strange day...
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> 
>      I met the french Porno Star Ovidie today in the street,she is a girl with
> a degree in Philosophy (no kidding...) that just happens to make porno
> films,she
> was walking her dog on a sunny Paris morning...
> 


Yeah we get those here in LA too. They are still out walking the dog, but
the degree is in pornography and she's doing Philosophy on the side.....


Vive la difference...


L8r

Andrew

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Andre,

Well now, I think we are all just about ready for 
that Loop IV instructional video now (hint, hint).
Of course I'm interested already in the new
EDP software and will get it as soon as a little
discretionary income appears . . . but I am also 
curious as heck about how you're doing all that 
loop mangling to begin with. Yes, the pieces 
are a tad loooongish but I listened to all of 
them. Thanks for sharing. It was worth every 
single minute.

Best,

Ted Killian

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From: "Neil Goldstein" <ngold@attbi.com>
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Subject: RE: A very strange day...and drum machines
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 09:33:46 -0700
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This should go under the drum machine thread, but you provided a segue:

The AdrenaLinn has a limited but great sounding drum machine, defeatable
with the stomp of a footswitch. There are limitations, but those are our
friends, a philosophy I'm trying to subscribe to. With the Soundiver editor
its real easy and fun to roll your own patterns and patches.

I like the setting where you can have the drum pattern go out the right
output and the gtr processor out the left, which is a nice match for the
mono EDP. And since it slaves or sends midi clock, there is going to be a
LOT to discover using it with all the new LoopIV sync features.

I also have an ER-1 which I love; it is esp nice in conjunction with sounds
such as Adrenalinn drum samples playing simple patterns. I also have a Zoom
323 which is great drum box for the money, punchy and traditional, and runs
on batteries with a small footprint.



    _/      _/  _/_/_/  _/  _/
   _/_/    _/  _/      _/  _/
  _/  _/  _/  _/_/    _/  _/
 _/    _/_/  _/      _/  _/
_/      _/  _/_/_/  _/  _/_/_/


>

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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 10:29:49 -0700
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: Dave Trenkel <improv@peak.org>
Subject: Re: The Best Live Drum Machine
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>
>I keep trying to be tempted by the ER-1. My three big concerns are time
>signatures, wishing that it had more synthesized drums and fewer PCM samples
>(you could now chime in and tell me that the PCM stuff is useful thereby
>resolving that concern), and the fact that a variety of parameters like
>swing can only be edited while it's stopped.

The only PCM samples are, if I remember correctly, the unit's not in 
front of me as I type, the open and closed hi hats. They're pretty 
generic, but perfectly useable. The synth engine on the ER is really 
surprisingly flexible for as few parameters as it has. And the 4 
synth voices aren't tied to being bass/snare/tom/whatever, which is 
cool. I like the fact that in pattern mode, it's basically always in 
record mode while playing, you can add drum hits in any bar at any 
time.

>
>I've got an MC-505 that is insufficiently "immediate" for me to be really
>happy with it.

It's taken years for me to get "immediate" with the MC-303. I pretty 
much hate the user interfaces of any of the "Groove-approved" Roland 
gear, I bought the MC-303 in a moment of weakness.

>
>I haven't worked myself up to just splurge on a Machinedrum though I keep
>coming back to thinking about it.
>
>I also wonder at times about sixteenth-note quantization and whether it
>makes things sound too mechanical. Certainly the Machinedrum demos sound
>very mechanized. (Too be expected from a product named "Machinedrum"?)

Years ago I read an interview with Stan Ridgeway, then still with 
Wall of Voodoo, where he said that drum machines ought to sound like 
appliances. I liked that. If you want human feel, get a human! I like 
layering real drums, whether played live or looped samples, with drum 
machine beats, sort of gives you the best of both worlds.

>
>Finally, I worry on occasion about a comment that I heard at Loopstock (from
>Max?) that I do find might be true: When the drum machines get turned on,
>the audience stops paying attention. (Rough paraphrase.) So, one of the
>other questions is how to make live drum machine use work well while playing
>other instruments.

I think it's pretty important to keep the drum parts evolving. I 
think it's too easy, especially while playing live, to start the drum 
machine and just let it run while everything evolves around it. I 
like using multiple drum sources because it makes it easy to 
add/remove layers, process individual instruments, etc.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Trenkel                                New and Improv Music
http://www.newandimprov.com         improv@peak.org
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Mark Hamburg wrote:

When the drum machines get turned on,
the audience stops paying attention. (Rough paraphrase.) So, one of the
other questions is how to make live drum machine use work well while playing
other instruments.
----------------------------------------

Now this could make an interesting string....(if not already beat to death)
(slight pun)  I'm not a hard core looper, but I use a JamMan when I
play guitar at coffee shops, etc., and I love gadgets in my home studio
and am playing around with Ableton's Live.  I have wanted to incorporate
a drum machine or percussion loops with my low-volume live guitar gigs,
and even though it starts sounding inspiring at home, I can just hear too
many people, mostly musicians, in the audience groan:  "oh, no...he's got
a drum machine, ..might as well be playing a casette..."
Now it worked for Timbuk 3....  ("future's bright....shades", remember?)
I've tried looping some djembe and bongos into the JamMan, but it is
very difficult to get things miked and sounding anywhere close to the
original...I really will need a Repeater if I want to try this seriously....and

close mic or even try piezo transducers on the percussion.  I just think
that people take you a bit more seriously if they see you perform the
looped tracks as opposed to simply playing them back.  Now the
Machinedrum still looks very tempting because it can be played and
loopes recorded in real time, plus every parameter can be put under
MIDI contol.....  and the max of 32 step quantization would at least
ensure that you are tight....if a bit too tight....and it will handle odd
time signatures, swing, etc....and so it could be played with pads...
though I haven't heard back from Elektron or other users about how
it handles velocity....   though supposedly it can do everything thru MIDI.
Enuf on that...
Really....I'd just like to work with a real percussionist.....but as we all
know,
sometimes finding compatible musicians is difficult....a reason why, I
believe, a lot of us resort to looping.....

aside....I have this mental picture of a cartoon take-off of the one-man-band
dude (marching drum, cymbals on feet and head, trumpet, etc., et..) but
all replaced with electronica, wires, LCD readouts.........guess it's been
done.
--
gary
@friendlyspider.com


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> on 6/10/02 9:51 PM, Dave Trenkel at improv@peak.org wrote:
>
> The Nord may not be your first thought as a drum machine, but it's
> pretty great: step sequencers that can be combined to make patterns
> of any length (Why do so many drum machines just allow you to do 4/4
> or 3/4?! If the ER-1 allowed odd time sigs, it'd be my  favorite), and
> a really flexible, totally programmable sound generator. I have a
> collection of patches that do drum/percussion sounds and patterns, if
> anyone's interested.

I'd be interested not only in your drum/percussion patterns, but also in
your knowledge of the (micro)modular (or in anyone's knowledge, that is):
What I'd like to do (but didn't manage to do so far, had the micromodular
for a few days only) is something like a looping sequencer, where I hit a
designated button on the micromod (i.e. the C4), and then the thing starts
sequencing what I play via MIDI. This goes into several separate sequencers,
of which I could adjust the pattern lengths with the dials of the micromod.
Is this possible? Do you have something like it?

	Rainer

Rainer Straschill
Moinlabs GFX and Soundworks - www.moinlabs.de
digital penis expert group - www.dpeg.de
The MoinSound Archives - www.mp3.com/moinlabs

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I should be able to answer that question in a few days.
Andy Ewen,
EDP Project Manager.

-----Original Message-----
From: Greg House [mailto:ghunicycle@yahoo.com]
Sent: 10 June 2002 22:14
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Aurisis Research Announces LoopIV for the Gibson Echoplex
Digital Pro

--- Kim Flint <kflint@loopers-delight.com> wrote:

> It has been a long wait, but hopefully worth it. We at Aurisis are
> very pleased to announce...... LoopIV!

Congratulations!

How long will it be before LoopIV is available on new Gibson EDP units?
I presume there's some back stock that will have to filter through.

Greg

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
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> Mark Hamburg wrote:
>
> When the drum machines get turned on,
> the audience stops paying attention.

I think this brings out an interesting point about loop based performances, and
performances in general.  Stop paying attention to the music, or two what you're
doing?  Often when we play we show video, or work in conjunction with a video
artist.  Often I'll play an art opening.  Basically, I don't want people to pay
attention to me.  If I did, I'd have some sort of Bowiesque stage show, but that's
not my bag, man.  I didn't even like Loopstock.  I'm much sooner have people
listen but not watch.  I'm boring to watch.  Come to think of it, all the
performers at Loopstock were boring to watch.  There, I said it.  But not to me.
Why?  Because I'm interesting in the gear and how it's being used.  I'm an
educated consumer, so I can go, "Oh, I see Bill's using mutlitrack Repeater
looping with it slowed down 50% ooooo interesting...."  The average person in a
cafe or club could care less.  Band interaction is fun to watch, but most of us
seem so busy nursing our gear, that gets clouded.  Percussionists (Hi Jon, Rick!)
are for sure more fun to watch, as they're at least animated.

I played an Oracle Corporate event last month, and the main comment was, "Oooo
what are you doing with that blue thing?"  They were interested in the Alesis
AirFX.  Another person said, "Oh, we like acts like this.  We usually have those
other guys... with the virtual xylophone..."  (Buchela Lightning played by Chris
Hedges)  Not, "wow, those guys music was great."  Not, "Hey I like the fact that
you can loop your guitar parts."  They comment on the little motion they saw, or
the very obvious new technology.

So I say, don't be paid attention to.  Have your music paid attention to... or
not.  Make an acoustic environment.  Have your music be the star.  That's what DJs
do.  I've never heard a DJ complain that they weren't being watched.  Why are we?

Mark Sottilaro

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RM1X

see much more complete rewiews on the www.

here are some looper / personal things I love (I play acoustic guitar
seated and standing)
really the most looper friendly machine (pattern mode)


-you can select your patterns on the fly (16 per tune) by footsw (inc
only) by syx (random acces)
-you can mute or solo by hand some mute memory is provided
-I use track 1-8 for drums 9-16 for fx automation 
-if you liked the alesis mmt8 this is the 100 times replacement
-LoopIV aproved (I did all the sync testing with it)
-the sounds are "OK" for me (only stereo out)
-you can shift sync forwards or backwards in midi clock increments ( a
good way to fine tune that groove when synced to the edp sync IN or OUT)
-If you feel so you can grab one of its play parameter pots and play the
"big one" on the PA subs 
-there are plenty of preset patterns that you can use for instant
jams/creativity ; once you know this is "the new song" you need to
reprogram some to make it your own (I still use the four on the floor
preset paterns though =)....)
-floppy disk I save All my toys sysx on a rm1x pattern so if shit
happens I'm grumbly but not acoustic 

http://www.loopers-delight.com/cgi-bin/profiles.cgi?step=view_profile&id=011002174832


Claude

marcus savino wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> What are your favorite drum machines and why?
> 
> Thanks!!
> --
> _______________________________________________
> Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
> http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup

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Subject: Re: Pay attention
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> Mark Sottilaro wrote:
>
> So I say, don't be paid attention to.  Have your music paid attention
to... or
> not.  Make an acoustic environment.  Have your music be the star.  That's
what DJs
> do.  I've never heard a DJ complain that they weren't being watched.  Why
are we?

Mark, you bring up an interesting point!  Its funny, I've had gigs where the
audience shows up, sits in chairs and patienly and politely watches and
"pretends" to listen to what I'm doing/what the band is doing.  Many
musicians wish they could do this more, and there are times when this works
great, but for me the most rewarding gigs have been when people are there to
Dance/Socialize/Mingle and my music is able to provide the perfect
atmosphere for that.  If people want to sit down and listen, they do, and I
find they end up apreciating my music a lot more this way.
Jon


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Hi Mark-

I liked what you wrote- it's a very important subject.

I think there is always a balance between the show part and the music part.
Especially today with our visually oriented society, the audience responds
to both  (subconsciously or consciously). It's all part of the communication
with the audience. This happens in all music making and it is a part of
experiencing a live performance- and it always has been. For those who don't
want to be distracted visually, they can always shut their eyes.

I remember being at a very famous music school in New York and taking a
class on "aesthetics of music". Basically the teacher hated anything that
took away from the music- different clothes, too much movement, any
different lights. Now, this was a classical music school, but for me, coming
from a pop environment, it seemed strange. Of course no one had the guts to
say that they felt differently, but one day I got tired of it and I simply
asked- if it is so distracting  to have visual interference in a
performance, then why don't we just play with the lights off? She didn't
give me a good one except to site "tradition"

Anyway like I said- I think balance is key but who are we to say what
balance is for other performers? Some will be more visually oriented and use
it as their communication, others will be more music - only oriented. It's
one of the things that make us different performers from others. Either way,
whether we like it or not,  the audience will be watching AND listening and
we have to deal with it our own personal way.

With respect

Kevin Gallagher

http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/319/kevin_r_gallagher.html










----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Sottilaro" <sine@zerocrossing.net>
To: "loopers" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 2:13 PM
Subject: Pay attention


> > Mark Hamburg wrote:
> >
> > When the drum machines get turned on,
> > the audience stops paying attention.
>
> I think this brings out an interesting point about loop based
performances, and
> performances in general.  Stop paying attention to the music, or two what
you're
> doing?  Often when we play we show video, or work in conjunction with a
video
> artist.  Often I'll play an art opening.  Basically, I don't want people
to pay
> attention to me.  If I did, I'd have some sort of Bowiesque stage show,
but that's
> not my bag, man.  I didn't even like Loopstock.  I'm much sooner have
people
> listen but not watch.  I'm boring to watch.  Come to think of it, all the
> performers at Loopstock were boring to watch.  There, I said it.  But not
to me.
> Why?  Because I'm interesting in the gear and how it's being used.  I'm an
> educated consumer, so I can go, "Oh, I see Bill's using mutlitrack
Repeater
> looping with it slowed down 50% ooooo interesting...."  The average person
in a
> cafe or club could care less.  Band interaction is fun to watch, but most
of us
> seem so busy nursing our gear, that gets clouded.  Percussionists (Hi Jon,
Rick!)
> are for sure more fun to watch, as they're at least animated.
>
> I played an Oracle Corporate event last month, and the main comment was,
"Oooo
> what are you doing with that blue thing?"  They were interested in the
Alesis
> AirFX.  Another person said, "Oh, we like acts like this.  We usually have
those
> other guys... with the virtual xylophone..."  (Buchela Lightning played by
Chris
> Hedges)  Not, "wow, those guys music was great."  Not, "Hey I like the
fact that
> you can loop your guitar parts."  They comment on the little motion they
saw, or
> the very obvious new technology.
>
> So I say, don't be paid attention to.  Have your music paid attention
to... or
> not.  Make an acoustic environment.  Have your music be the star.  That's
what DJs
> do.  I've never heard a DJ complain that they weren't being watched.  Why
are we?
>
> Mark Sottilaro
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun 11 15:45:16 2002
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Ever just listened to a recording of "Stomp" ?
It ain't quite the same.
--
gary
@friendlyspider.com


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun 11 16:25:16 2002
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Hi all, good topic this.

I've always known that I'm about as interesting to watch
as the growth of refrigerator mold. The more I can get
the audience to pay attention to something else the better
-- even if it's only static art on the wall in a gallery. I often
joke about it on stage. There's no avoiding the truth of it.

I've done stuff with poets, dance troupes, computer artists,
animators, slides, video, film . . . everything but trained 
dogs and clowns. To be honest . . . if it weren't for the 
factor of interacting with other people -- mostly the other 
musicians involved but I'd even broaden it to include a 
good, attentive audience -- I'd rather send my laptop or a CD
to a gig and have someone else push the "start" button.

Actually there have been many "concerts" I've attended
and participated in at various college music departments
where that was mostly what was going on. The lights in 
the hall would dim and someone would push play on some
box backstage. Not very interesting to the average 
audience . . . but that's the background I come out of.

And, I was never a good dancer even when I was young . . . 
due to a sort of "fundamentalist" upbringing I suppose 
. . . and I'm certainly not one now. So, all those fancy 
popstar/guitarist body movements are pretty much out 
of the question for this 49-year-old pudgy guitar geek. 

I often feel a pang of regret (or are those chest pains?) 
and wish this were different . . . for the audiences sake. 
But I can't much help being just exactly who I am at this 
point in my life.

And looping gear is expensive enough . . . have you ever
seriously checked out the prices on fancy lighting gear?
Heh, heh, heh . . . if I were seriously in the running to
make this a professional career perhaps "production
values" and "staging" would be more important to me.
But as it is . . . I have other fish to fry.

Or maybe I should wear a funny hat and a red nose after all . . .

See you on the funway!

Ted Killian

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From: Pedro Felix <pfelix28@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: NYC: 6.12.2002, Microtonal guitar at Chama
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see you Wed.! how was Chama on Sat.?
Has Tom done anything with the Open Loop recordings,
even after he refused to record us Sat. before last?
:)

best, Pedro

ahh, i'll be doing my weekly gig at Chama on Thursday
6/13, same info as David for locale, except I start at
9:30 and go close to 1 am,
pf
--- David Beardsley <db@biink.com> wrote:
>  DAVID BEARDSLEY
> 
> Microtonal Just Intonation guitar, fretless guitar, 
> echoes, loops, drones and minimalism.
> 
> Wednesday June 12th, 2002
> 8 p.m., $2.00
> 
> Chama
> 332 East 4th Street, between Aves C & D
> East Village, NYC 646-654-6472
> 
> "Phenomenal is one thought. Deep modern meditational
> tool is another." 
> Pat Pagano, dir. Southeast Just Intonation Society,
> Gainesville, Fl.
> 
> http://biink.com
> 
> 
> * David Beardsley
> * http://biink.com
> * http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pedro Felix" <pfelix28@yahoo.com>

> see you Wed.! how was Chama on Sat.?

I didn't go.

> Has Tom done anything with the Open Loop recordings,
> even after he refused to record us Sat. before last?
> :)
 
He told me recently that he's been listening to them.


* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

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Hi!

Since I have my repeater and try around with it, I had this idea: I´m a percussionist, but many of the percussions I use, especially frame drums have a very strong pitch. I realize with the repeater how nice it sounds to tweak the pich of these in any direction. 
Now what I would like to do is use this in realtime. Playing the drum in the microphone, the signal in an effect unit with a pitch shifter and controlling the pitch with my behringer midi footcontroller so that I could play a groove and play a melody with this groove with my feet... There would be so many nice possibilities like a polyrhythm where the different parts are changing pitch creating harmonies. Or the possibility to use a small drum to create a very low sub-bass.

I´m also interested in just routing the percussions through different kind of effects. Anyone experience with this?

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Kevin,

> from a pop environment, it seemed strange. Of course no one
> had the guts to
> say that they felt differently, but one day I got tired of it
> and I simply
> asked- if it is so distracting  to have visual interference in a
> performance, then why don't we just play with the lights off?
> She didn't
> give me a good one except to site "tradition"

When I went to a solo concert by the late Sjatoslav Richter (classical
pianist, with great understanding of Bach, Beethoven, Liszt and Chopin, to
name a few) who did in fact play with the lights off. This was one guy who
didn't give a damn for "tradition".

	Rainer


Rainer Straschill
Moinlabs GFX and Soundworks - www.moinlabs.de
digital penis expert group - www.dpeg.de
The MoinSound Archives - www.mp3.com/moinlabs

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun 11 18:32:49 2002
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<<I'm that person - on a tip from Jon Wagner, I 
  found Outlook Express' ability to filter
messages to specific folders>>

You can do this also with Yahoo, I think. I know
that they automatically give you a bulk mail
folder, and certain things (mostly
advertisements) get assigned that to that folder
automatically. I'm pretty sure you could, say,
have a folder for Looper's Delight, and tell
Yahoo that everything you get from that one
address to put it in that one folder. That way,
at the end of the day, if you just want to read
the Looper's Delight messages, you go to your
Looper's Delight folder, and all the day's
digests are there, and all you have to do is
click on each digest, and it'll put the whole
thing up, no dealing with attachments. 

=====
May you never thirst!
The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris

"What do you get when you give a yo-yo to a flock of flamingos?"-James Earl Jones

__________________________________________________
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun 11 18:47:45 2002
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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:46:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Richards <kohntarkosz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Queen Live Killers
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<<I think the most infamous overdubbed "live"
album had to have been "Queen Live".  It was not
only overdubbed, but claimed to use "no
synthesizers and no tapes" on the liner notes. 
It's obvious during a listen that tapes of
Freddie Mercury's voice are used for items like 
"Bohemian Rhapsody" (and obvious that they'd have
to be used in such a  situation, if not a
choir!)>>

That's how they played the song in concert. They
would leave the stage after the guitar solo and
play a tape of the "opera" section, then return
to the stage for the final section (starting with
the "hard rock" section after the words
"Beelzebub has put a devil aside for me"). The
only time they didn't do it this way was on the A
Night At The Opera tour, where they used the
opera section as their play on music, then come
in with the post-opera section as described
above, but where the song returns to the ballad,
they instead segued into something else. Later in
the show, they'd start the medley that was a
regular part of the show with the first half of
the song (sans the acapella intro, which near as
I can tell, they never sang in concert), and when
they'd get to where the opera section begins,
they'd segue into Killer Queen. 

If the live album you're talking about is Live
Killers, I don't remember any claim that there
were no tapes used (the "no synthesizers" line
appeared on every Queen album prior to The Game,
and near as I can tell, there are no synths on
any of them...there's stuff that don't sound
conventional instruments, but that's down to
knowing how to use a Harmonizer or Echoplex or
tape machine to manipulate the sound of a voice,
or a guitar or whatever). If you read the liner
notes on Live Killers, it specifically says the
band refused to lip synch or to sing along to
tape, so they simply leave the stage for the
section of the show. Seems kinda silly to say "No
tapes" and then contradict yourself with the
liner notes. 

<<the thing that drives the nails home on this
one 
  is that the taped portions sound in the mix
like they're being monitored from the back of the
hall, as well as attenuated down from the rest of
the 
vocals.>>

That's because they were recorded with the
audience mics. You're basically hearing an
audience recording of the band playing the tape
over the PA. One assumes it was done this way
(instead of simply running the tape machine onto
it's own tracks on the multi-track) to preserve
the live feel of the album.

As far as Live Killers being "infamous" as a
heavily overdubbed "live" album, you're the first
person I've ever heard make any such insinuation.
There's nothing on the album (with the exception
of that) that suggests there are any overdubs,
nor have I ever heard anyone who's worked with
the band or any of the band members admit to
there being any overdubs (contrastingly, one of
the members of Judas Priest once admitted that
their Unleashed In The East album is nicknamed
"Unleashed In The Studio" by the band). I assume
I don't need to explain how Freddie Mercury did
the vocal harmonies during the middle of Now I'm
Here, or how Brian May did those guitar harmonies
on Brighton Rock. 


=====
May you never thirst!
The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris

"What do you get when you give a yo-yo to a flock of flamingos?"-James Earl Jones

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun 11 19:03:14 2002
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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 16:01:36 -0700
From: Andrew Pask <andrew@kaleidacousticon.com>
Subject: Re: Pay attention
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on 6/11/02 3:28 PM, Rainer Straschill at rs@moinlabs.de or somebody wrote:

> When I went to a solo concert by the late Sjatoslav Richter (classical
> pianist, with great understanding of Bach, Beethoven, Liszt and Chopin, to
> name a few) who did in fact play with the lights off. This was one guy who
> didn't give a damn for "tradition".


Oh man that guy was a MONSTER. I grew up with his Brahms 2  I think it was
with the Chicago Symphony. There is a documentary floating around about the
Russian pianists that he's on, basically the gist of it was you've got all
these Russian pianists this century you know guys like Rachmaninov and
Horowitz but Sviatoslav Richter just blew them all out of the pool. He was
like steel, really well wrought.

I think most of the solo classical piano gigs I've been to they've had the
lights off. I think a lot of the time with classical music people actually
have no idea what the tradition really is, like the whole tradition of
improvisation, or even vibrato, but they'll use the "tradition" button just
to try and get their own weird way.


L8r

A

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun 11 19:55:08 2002
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=883789949

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun 11 20:10:33 2002
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Subject: Re: Pitch-shifting percussion sounds in realtime...
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 19:05:36 +0100
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buy an eventide processor...i'm sure you won't run out of pitchshifting
options for quite some time.

-jim


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun 11 20:33:02 2002
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I imagine something like the (now discontinued, sadly) Electrix Warp Factory vocoder would be the tool to pitch drums, and anything else.  I've set it up so that I can take a line from the drum machine to use as a formant and then apply it to my Repeater's effects loop, or the other way around.  Sonic mayhem results.

David Kuckhermann wrote:

> Hi!
>
> Since I have my repeater and try around with it, I had this idea: I´m a percussionist, but many of the percussions I use, especially frame drums have a very strong pitch. I realize with the repeater how nice it sounds to tweak the pich of these in any direction.
> Now what I would like to do is use this in realtime. Playing the drum in the microphone, the signal in an effect unit with a pitch shifter and controlling the pitch with my behringer midi footcontroller so that I could play a groove and play a melody with this groove with my feet... There would be so many nice possibilities like a polyrhythm where the different parts are changing pitch creating harmonies. Or the possibility to use a small drum to create a very low sub-bass.
>
> I´m also interested in just routing the percussions through different kind of effects. Anyone experience with this?

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun 11 21:34:04 2002
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Any Indianapolis loopers on the list?  Might be moving there soon and am =
wondering what the scene is like. =20

ie
http://kronosonic.com


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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Any Indianapolis loopers on the =
list?&nbsp; Might=20
be moving there soon and&nbsp;am wondering what the scene is like.&nbsp; =

</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>ie</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://kronosonic.com">http://kronosonic.com</A></FONT></DIV>
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun 11 21:53:40 2002
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From: S V G <vsyevolod@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: The Best Live Drum Machine        
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     I have little to no experience with other drum machines, though I'm a bit surprised that
there has been no mention of the Emu XL-7, the MP-7, or the Proteus 2500 (which is the exact same
beast as the other two just dressed in more respectable clothing.)

     I didn't buy this as a drum machine, though it totally kicks the llama's butt.  I bought it
to replace my Proteus 2000 which I used as a sound module with both my keyboard and my Axon guitar
synth.  Basically, it's a 16 channel sequencer with an incredible user interface for live
manipulation.  Each of the 16 tracks can be punched in or out with dedicated buttons.  16 knobs
control volume or pan for each track, OR editing of 16 different parameters of a selected internal
sound, OR sending those 16 knobs out to control external gear via midi.  

     To address the thread of keeping your "drum machine" sounding interesting, I would suggest
keeping your loops long.  The sequencer on this beast can play up to 32 measures (at any crazy
time signature that you like) giving you the opportunity to play the same thing over and over with
subtle inflections and differences each time.  Let's say you have a 4/4 pattern at 4 measures
long, you can repeat this segment 8 times before looping it.  Each track can be quantized (or not)
at a different quantization setting.

     I like to lay down a bass drum in a simple quantized mode.  Then each additional track
receives another sound from the wide variety of samples on the machine.  For these tracks I leave
the quantize function off, to give it a more "live" feel.  I can turn on or off each track
individually to vary the texture while playing it back.  I can then go into "song mode" and record
these track mutes or any other parameters (volume/pan changes, etc).  Linking patterns back to
back also happens in song mode.  This is useful for the "verse/chorus/verse/middle
section/verse/chorus" approach, or linking patterns with contrasting meters.

     In a live situation, it is a 16 track looper, much like the Repeater, though you can only use
the internal sounds via midi (or external midi units too), as opposed to audio looping.  First I
set my loop length, start recording on track 1, (I can continue to add more and more sounds as it
comes back around) then switch to track 2 (with a different sound) and layer that in etc.  I can
transpose tracks on the fly, add modulation or pitch bend, mess with the FX, trigger up to 16
different arpeggiators, play the one octave keypads, alter the master tempo in a variety of ways,
the possiblities are legion.

     I haven't tried this yet, though I could input all of the tracks from my guitar synth, adding
to the "live" aspect.  Combined with a midi foot pedal controller like the FCB1010, many functions
can be controlled via foot pedals.

     Unlike most midi gear that I've played with, the user interface on this beast is very
friendly (as opposed to almost anything else that Emu has produced since they stopped doing the
modular synth from the 70's.)  The support staff has been great as well.

     Recently the price on the XL-7 and the MP-7 came down to $1,000 (street price), to match the
Proteus 2500.  Both the XL-7 and the MP-7 have the one octave keypads with aftertouch, a
touchstrip ribbon controller and a 12v gooseneck light outlet, which do not appear on the Proteus
2500.  The main distinguishing feature between all three is that they come with their own sound
chip, (with three extra slots for more sounds).  Right now Emu is doing a promotional sale on them
where you get the Proteus sound chip free with purchase of the xx-7 module.  You can find them new
for about $840 if you look around and less if you are willing to buy them used.

     And there's a fantastic YahooGroup mailing list for these machines (second only to LD), with
two Emu guys on it to answer and clarify any bugs or questions.  Many of the current upgrades came
from this list.

     My main quibble with it is the choice of color, which a can of spray paint should be able to
address.

     I've had it for about two months, and I feel like I've only scratched the surface.

             Cheers,

                  SVG

__________________________________________________
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun 11 23:13:08 2002
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Note that my original phrasing and the phrasing for this thread was/is "pay
attention" not "watch". I don't really care whether people watch me.
Watching the video from Loopstock confirmed for me that I pretty much
completely failed to look at the audience. I wish I had looked at the
audience more, but that's a different issue.

What I worry about with respect to drum machines is whether it makes it easy
for people to say "Oh. Drum machine." and then tune out more or less
completely. As someone with an ambient bent, that would seemingly be fine
but then a lot of drum machine results aren't particularly "ambient".

I'm hoping that whoever made the remark to me at Loopstock (Max?) will chime
in with his experiences on the effects of drum machines on performance.

I think there's probably also a big difference between playing a drum
machine and using a drum machine as an automated accompanist. As someone who
is primarily worrying about guitar playing, I've been looking for something
that strikes a nice middle ground between "start drum machine and let it
run" and "interact semi-constantly with the drum machine".

Mark

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Jes' checkin' in . . .
The manual is just what I was whining for just about a month ago (That
oughtta hold the little bastards a while . . .)
I only ordered one chip 'cause it's obvious to me that I am gonna need to
keep one EDP in Loop III at least for a while, since some of the MIDI
commands I have been using will not work with the upgrade.
And what an upgrade!  FSU City!  However, I am especially grateful that the
original, highly accessible interface was preserved.  Looks like a wonderful
job, and I look forward to many hours hunched over equipment and manual.
Gary

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 12 02:08:12 2002
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Subject: OT: Drum machines vs. Human beings
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Dave wrote:
"Years ago I read an interview with Stan Ridgeway, then still with
Wall of Voodoo, where he said that drum machines ought to sound like
appliances. I liked that. If you want human feel, get a human! "

I laughed at this quote!    There is a place where I agree.

I have been a professional drummer and multi-percussionist all of my adult
life and am constantly besieged
with questions about both drum machines, sequencers and looping
devices............."Aren't you afraid of
putting musicians out of work"  These are my thoughts about this sort of
question and my feelings about
drum machines in general.


Just for a little historical perspective:

 Shortly after the turn of the century, when the Secretary of the Navy
prevailed upon the mayor of New Orleans
to shut down the Red Light district (for upright moral reasons), whose
Madams had been the financial backers for  the new music
that many white people were calling 'Jazz'  (a term which is synonymous with
Sperm or Gism or Jizz),
they first tried to put pressure on the houses of ill repute by using
housing code
violations, trumped up 'disturbing the peace' violations and the many other
ways that cities have of hassling
musical establishments (and it continues to this day, bless their pointed
little heads).

Anyway,  as the sailors began to drift away from the port of New Orleans
(where the navy had disbanded leaving hundreds
of marching band instruments----drums and brass instruments, primarily whose
prevalence and , hence, cheap prices had fueled
the early jazz musicians) and the finances started to drain out of the area
(sound familiar dot.com busters in the S.F. bay area?)
the Madams were forced to start hiring smaller and smaller bands to play
jazz at their establishments.   Also, many musicians
started heading up the Mississippi to look for work in places like Memphis,
Kansas City, Chicago and eventually, New York
and Los Angeles causing the spread to the rest of the country of both jazz
and blues.

At the time, the de rigeur rhythm section consisted of either a bass drummer
and a snare drummer or
a bass drummer, snare drummer and cymbal player, which were the classical
drumming units in a Navy marching band.    As the 12 piece orchestras became
10 piece and 6 piece and finally 3 and 4 piece bands (the 'typical' jazz
band size of today), some enterprising young black man (and I have never
found anybody to say who it was specifically in all the 1st hand accounts
and histories of jazz and drumming that I have read, which is a lot)  came
up with a 'contraption' that allowed him to play the bass drum with  his
foot and play the snare drums with both hands (because it was now on a
stand)..........it took 8-10 years later before another person (again,
nameless, to my knowledge) before another young black drummer added to the
contraption (which had
, by this time been shortened to the term 'Trap Set'----a contraction of
contraption, as it were) by putting two cymbals together
with a pulley mechanism to form the first high hat (although the original
ones were not "High Hats" at all, but "Low Bows" or
"Sock hats" because the cymbals were at the level of the drummer's
socks--------it took another few years for some one to
raise the heighth of the tube supporting the now named "Hi Hats".

In this way, the original 'contraption' inventor reduced the job of two or
three drummers and the budding 'Drum Set' and it's importance in the
original jazz ensembles was born.

Imagine what would have happened to the history of modern music if that
person had heeded the question,  "Aren't you
afraid that this invention will put musicians out of work".

Innovation occurs..............people are always looking for better and
better ways of getting the music in their heads out into the world.
it is a never ending process.   As a young man, I remember a producer
telling me "You can bitch and moan about the
proliferation of drum machines in recording studios, Rick, or you can learn
how to program them so you will always have work".

Well, from the time that I first saw the band Ultravox play with a trapset
player with only a bass drum, snare drum and cymbals
(wierdly minimal in the era of 10 tom, concert drum sets which were de
rigeur at that time (late 70's) and Roland CR78, which was
the first official primitive 'programmable' drum machine, I was transfixed.
I love the juxtaposition, timbrally, of the heavy drums and the artifical
and light sounding analogue drum machine sounds............I thought it was
really beautiful and it changed my life.    I through myself into the world
of what I call hybrid drumming:    real drums, percussion and either drum
machines or triggered samples.

Early on I discoverd that if I put an old Synare trigger on my kick drum and
then made the note as low as I could make it but
shortened the envelope so that it was almost inaudible, that I could make my
kick drum sound like GOD and still have all the punch
and attack and human nuance of a reall drum (which it was).

Well,  since then I have consulted and provide samples for EMU (I've heard
that my famous one headed kick drum tuning is the most used drum in their
sample library which makes me proud),  I've helped them choose sounds (the
EMU Carnaval and the EMU
Phatt) and I've programmed preset rhythms for the ZOOM 123.   I've also done
a tremendous amount of programming for
musicians who feel like they just don't know how to program drum machines
realistically (boy, can I tell when most guitarists or keyboardists program
their drum machines).  As a matter of fact, tomorrow, I will be programming
an old Roland TR505 for
a steel drum band that does work teaching music to children in
schools...............they can't afford to hire a reall drummer
for their shows but they want their valuable tithing work to the community
to continue (and, lo and behold, a drummer will be
earning a little bit of money to program the machine with conciousness!!!


As a matter of fact, if any one is interested in this very off topic chain,
maybe I could show you guys some great tricks for
programming drum machines in the most simple and effective ways for your
music.   Just let me know if anyone is interested and I"ll post these tricks
when I have time.

So, personally, I love electronic sounds and old analogue drum machines
because they are specifically not in the tonal range
of the drum set and percussion playing that I do.      I also am really
deeply into a kick lately to try and invent acoustic
instruments that sound as if they were electronic or processed and then loop
and process them.

I feel like the companies are trying as hard as possible to make their drum
machines sound realistic and I'm heading in the opposite
direction................I guess I just dig the "NEW".    I'd be happy to
talk about some creative ways for looping drummers
to create new timbres for their acoustic drums that sound like they are on a
Portisehead record or whatever.  Again,  just let me
know.

The human being is so complex that the drum machine companies don't have a
bat's chance in hell of truly duplicating
the 'real' thing..............It is the artificiallity of the drum machine,
ironically, that draws me to them..............I love the juxtaposition
of the highly processed and articificial and the extremely primal and human
and idiosyncratic natural.
It is, after all,   the world we find ourselves in today!    Part of our
existence here in this culture has to do with reconciling
the modern/technological/computer driven and automated aspects of our
culture with the urge to just bang on a tree trunk
or pick at a piece of gut stretched over a gourd.     I say,    RECONCILE it
all!!!!   It's who we are anyway, n'cest pas?

So we come full circle (if you haven't fallen asleep yet---------------boy
am I long winded sometimes--------LOL) to
Stan Ridgeway's comments about drum machine that should sound like
appliances............

towards that end, I have a new piece on my next abstract electronica CD,
'Purple Hand' which I'm hoping to have finished by late summer and early
fall where I took a $60 sampling Casio watch and drove around the bay area
(to looping gigs, I might add...:-)
and sampled really cool cash registers that I heard................it came
out great............hope some of you get to hear it at some point.

yours, in looping and drumming and the love of drum machines.

Rick Walker (loop.pool)



From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 12 02:16:02 2002
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Hi Gary, thanks for the good words!

which of your existing midi commands do you think won't work in LoopIV? We 
tried pretty hard to make sure the existing midi commands from LoopIII 
would all still work the same, while adding new stuff around it. Is there 
something unclear about that in the documentation or something that really 
won't work?

You should be able to move to loopIV fairly transparently and add the new 
things as you are ready. We struggled a lot to preserve everything about 
LoopIII and build upon it, rather than fundamentally change anything that 
was already there. So you should be able to plug it in and start in a 
completely familiar place as if it were still LoopIII, and then go about 
discovering all the neat stuff that makes it LoopIV.

kim

At 11:04 PM 6/11/2002, Gary Lehmann wrote:
>Jes' checkin' in . . .
>The manual is just what I was whining for just about a month ago (That
>oughtta hold the little bastards a while . . .)
>I only ordered one chip 'cause it's obvious to me that I am gonna need to
>keep one EDP in Loop III at least for a while, since some of the MIDI
>commands I have been using will not work with the upgrade.
>And what an upgrade!  FSU City!  However, I am especially grateful that the
>original, highly accessible interface was preserved.  Looks like a wonderful
>job, and I look forward to many hours hunched over equipment and manual.
>Gary

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com

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Well, I haven't tried it yet, so maybe everything will work without
modification--but it seems to me I moved the default settings around a
lot--First MIDI command is 56, and the Loop numbers start at 36 (there was a
reason, seems like it had to do with the range of the Ztar).
But as I say, nothing but time between me and mastery of the new OS!  It
certainly seems to be capable of twice as much fun stuff--lots of useful
features, and mayhem for those who prefer mangling . . .  (Real time
Granular hmmm?)
Gary

-----Original Message-----
Kim Flint wrote:

Hi Gary, thanks for the good words!

which of your existing midi commands do you think won't work in LoopIV? We
tried pretty hard to make sure the existing midi commands from LoopIII
would all still work the same, while adding new stuff around it. Is there
something unclear about that in the documentation or something that really
won't work?

You should be able to move to loopIV fairly transparently and add the new
things as you are ready. We struggled a lot to preserve everything about
LoopIII and build upon it, rather than fundamentally change anything that
was already there. So you should be able to plug it in and start in a
completely familiar place as if it were still LoopIII, and then go about
discovering all the neat stuff that makes it LoopIV.

kim

At 11:04 PM 6/11/2002, Gary Lehmann wrote:
>Jes' checkin' in . . .
>The manual is just what I was whining for just about a month ago (That
>oughtta hold the little bastards a while . . .)
>I only ordered one chip 'cause it's obvious to me that I am gonna need to
>keep one EDP in Loop III at least for a while, since some of the MIDI
>commands I have been using will not work with the upgrade.
>And what an upgrade!  FSU City!  However, I am especially grateful that the
>original, highly accessible interface was preserved.  Looks like a
wonderful
>job, and I look forward to many hours hunched over equipment and manual.
>Gary

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 12 02:36:24 2002
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On Tuesday, June 11, 2002, at 08:13  PM, Mark Hamburg wrote:
>
> I think there's probably also a big difference between playing a drum
> machine and using a drum machine as an automated accompanist. As 
> someone who
> is primarily worrying about guitar playing, I've been looking for 
> something
> that strikes a nice middle ground between "start drum machine and let it
> run" and "interact semi-constantly with the drum machine".
>
> Mark
>
>
Here's what I've found works the best.  Regardless of what people on the 
list have said, the Roland "Groove" boxes give you tons of stuff to 
tweak live.  Bring drums in and out, switch patterns, add filters, 
effects, change BPM, ect.  I've just sat and "DJ'd" with the MC-307 and 
it  can be pretty fun when used in conjunction with something like a 
KAOSS pad or AirFX.

One problem.  I find that the amount of attention I need to pay to the 
box to make it sound not canned (as opposed to not machine like) is more 
than I like to give it while I'm playing the guitar.  So... the 
compromise I've come up with is to automate a "song" of changes.  
Sequence out a long pattern.  Then, do my loop schpiel.  When I'm 
inspired to play the drum machine, it's there and tweakable.  However, 
if I forget about it, it won't linger on the same unchanging pattern 
either.  It's also kind of nice to have a bit of a random change happen.

I'd like to find someone in the SF Bay Area that's interested in this 
aspect of electronic music.  Someone who doesn't play an instrument, per 
se, but would like to tweak drum machines, play samples, scratch. (would 
really love to find a DJ that can *really* scratch, I'm so tempted to 
buy that high end Pioneer CD player and do some myself!)

Mark Sottilaro

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--- "Rick Walker/Loop.pooL" <GLOBAL@cruzio.com> wrote:
> 
> As a matter of fact, if any one is interested in
> this very off topic chain,
> maybe I could show you guys some great tricks for
> programming drum machines in the most simple and
> effective ways for your
> music.   Just let me know if anyone is interested
> and I"ll post these tricks
> when I have time.

I don't think it's off-topic at all, considering how
many of us have a drum machine hooked up to our
loopers. I hope you'll share some of your tips &
tricks with us. I could use a good kick-start. I
can tweak parameters on an effects box for hours
(& have a good time doing it); but when it comes to
drum machines, I'd rather be hit with a stick than
try to program one.

John


=====
John Tidwell




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
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Mark Hamburg wrote:
Note that my original phrasing and the phrasing for this thread was/is "pay
attention" not "watch". I don't really care whether people watch me.
Watching the video from Loopstock confirmed for me that I pretty much
completely failed to look at the audience. I wish I had looked at the
audience more, but that's a different issue.
<snip>
Looking at the audience is like trying to run the drum machine while you
play your instrument--it's one more thing to do that can only take your
concentration away from playing your instrument.  Unfortunately, most
sighted human beings process sensation with the inclusion of visual
stimulus.  Even the best musicians want to look at SOMETHING to help them
concentrate on the sound.  And most folks can only follow your "noise" by
watching you make it.  If then . . .
I don't have the answer on this one but I am reminded of an old joke
involving a mule and a two by four.  The punch line is, "First you have to
get his attention."
Gary

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Hi,

I've heard various rumours that Electrix is, or soon will be out of 
business. Their forum is like a ghostship, with the tech guy's long 
absence being put down to 'Holidays' and 'Illness'. There are rumours 
that there will be no more updates to the OS, and it has been stated by 
Lisa@Electrix that 'due to a restructure', shipping of Repeaters will be 
suspended.

Does anyone on this list have any inside info?

If the rumours are true, then it will be a sad day for the looping 
community. The potential of the Repeater is limitless - only let down 
here and there by a few software glitches. Given another year or two of 
development, and I could seriously see this box wipe the EDP off of the 
planet....

--
Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
http://www.solostring.com
stuart@solostring.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 12 04:15:23 2002
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From: "terry o'brien" <anomalousdisturbances@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: OT: Drum machines vs. Human beings
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 01:13:34 -0700
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Great post Rick!  I too love the juxtaposition.  Thanks for the history 
lesson as well.  Also loved your post on 'why... looping festivals'.  Very 
inspirational.....and makes marketing sense too.

As far as beats go, I rely on my brother Chris who is a great drummer imho, 
but he's in LA and I'm in Vancouver.  We have a semi dormant project called 
Idiot Bliss.  When I play, I am accompanied on some pieces by his looped 
beats, played from my laptop.

Anyway, please excuse the promotional spammage, but he has a new drum sample 
CD out through Ilio. FYI the CD is 'Stark Raving Beats'.

http://www.ilio.com/ilio/srbeats/index.html

Finally, yes I'd love to know more about programming tricks. I am a 
guitarist afterall :-)

Terry O'Brien
www.anomalousdisturbances.com


>From: "Rick Walker/Loop.pooL" <GLOBAL@cruzio.com>
>Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>To: "Loopers Delight" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
>Subject: OT: Drum machines vs. Human beings
>Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 23:07:06 -0700
>
>Dave wrote:
>"Years ago I read an interview with Stan Ridgeway, then still with
>Wall of Voodoo, where he said that drum machines ought to sound like
>appliances. I liked that. If you want human feel, get a human! "
>
>I laughed at this quote!    There is a place where I agree.
>
>I have been a professional drummer and multi-percussionist all of my adult
>life and am constantly besieged
>with questions about both drum machines, sequencers and looping
>devices............."Aren't you afraid of
>putting musicians out of work"  These are my thoughts about this sort of
>question and my feelings about
>drum machines in general.
>
>
>Just for a little historical perspective:
>
>  Shortly after the turn of the century, when the Secretary of the Navy
>prevailed upon the mayor of New Orleans
>to shut down the Red Light district (for upright moral reasons), whose
>Madams had been the financial backers for  the new music
>that many white people were calling 'Jazz'  (a term which is synonymous 
>with
>Sperm or Gism or Jizz),
>they first tried to put pressure on the houses of ill repute by using
>housing code
>violations, trumped up 'disturbing the peace' violations and the many other
>ways that cities have of hassling
>musical establishments (and it continues to this day, bless their pointed
>little heads).
>
>Anyway,  as the sailors began to drift away from the port of New Orleans
>(where the navy had disbanded leaving hundreds
>of marching band instruments----drums and brass instruments, primarily 
>whose
>prevalence and , hence, cheap prices had fueled
>the early jazz musicians) and the finances started to drain out of the area
>(sound familiar dot.com busters in the S.F. bay area?)
>the Madams were forced to start hiring smaller and smaller bands to play
>jazz at their establishments.   Also, many musicians
>started heading up the Mississippi to look for work in places like Memphis,
>Kansas City, Chicago and eventually, New York
>and Los Angeles causing the spread to the rest of the country of both jazz
>and blues.
>
>At the time, the de rigeur rhythm section consisted of either a bass 
>drummer
>and a snare drummer or
>a bass drummer, snare drummer and cymbal player, which were the classical
>drumming units in a Navy marching band.    As the 12 piece orchestras 
>became
>10 piece and 6 piece and finally 3 and 4 piece bands (the 'typical' jazz
>band size of today), some enterprising young black man (and I have never
>found anybody to say who it was specifically in all the 1st hand accounts
>and histories of jazz and drumming that I have read, which is a lot)  came
>up with a 'contraption' that allowed him to play the bass drum with  his
>foot and play the snare drums with both hands (because it was now on a
>stand)..........it took 8-10 years later before another person (again,
>nameless, to my knowledge) before another young black drummer added to the
>contraption (which had
>, by this time been shortened to the term 'Trap Set'----a contraction of
>contraption, as it were) by putting two cymbals together
>with a pulley mechanism to form the first high hat (although the original
>ones were not "High Hats" at all, but "Low Bows" or
>"Sock hats" because the cymbals were at the level of the drummer's
>socks--------it took another few years for some one to
>raise the heighth of the tube supporting the now named "Hi Hats".
>
>In this way, the original 'contraption' inventor reduced the job of two or
>three drummers and the budding 'Drum Set' and it's importance in the
>original jazz ensembles was born.
>
>Imagine what would have happened to the history of modern music if that
>person had heeded the question,  "Aren't you
>afraid that this invention will put musicians out of work".
>
>Innovation occurs..............people are always looking for better and
>better ways of getting the music in their heads out into the world.
>it is a never ending process.   As a young man, I remember a producer
>telling me "You can bitch and moan about the
>proliferation of drum machines in recording studios, Rick, or you can learn
>how to program them so you will always have work".
>
>Well, from the time that I first saw the band Ultravox play with a trapset
>player with only a bass drum, snare drum and cymbals
>(wierdly minimal in the era of 10 tom, concert drum sets which were de
>rigeur at that time (late 70's) and Roland CR78, which was
>the first official primitive 'programmable' drum machine, I was transfixed.
>I love the juxtaposition, timbrally, of the heavy drums and the artifical
>and light sounding analogue drum machine sounds............I thought it was
>really beautiful and it changed my life.    I through myself into the world
>of what I call hybrid drumming:    real drums, percussion and either drum
>machines or triggered samples.
>
>Early on I discoverd that if I put an old Synare trigger on my kick drum 
>and
>then made the note as low as I could make it but
>shortened the envelope so that it was almost inaudible, that I could make 
>my
>kick drum sound like GOD and still have all the punch
>and attack and human nuance of a reall drum (which it was).
>
>Well,  since then I have consulted and provide samples for EMU (I've heard
>that my famous one headed kick drum tuning is the most used drum in their
>sample library which makes me proud),  I've helped them choose sounds (the
>EMU Carnaval and the EMU
>Phatt) and I've programmed preset rhythms for the ZOOM 123.   I've also 
>done
>a tremendous amount of programming for
>musicians who feel like they just don't know how to program drum machines
>realistically (boy, can I tell when most guitarists or keyboardists program
>their drum machines).  As a matter of fact, tomorrow, I will be programming
>an old Roland TR505 for
>a steel drum band that does work teaching music to children in
>schools...............they can't afford to hire a reall drummer
>for their shows but they want their valuable tithing work to the community
>to continue (and, lo and behold, a drummer will be
>earning a little bit of money to program the machine with conciousness!!!
>
>
>As a matter of fact, if any one is interested in this very off topic chain,
>maybe I could show you guys some great tricks for
>programming drum machines in the most simple and effective ways for your
>music.   Just let me know if anyone is interested and I"ll post these 
>tricks
>when I have time.
>
>So, personally, I love electronic sounds and old analogue drum machines
>because they are specifically not in the tonal range
>of the drum set and percussion playing that I do.      I also am really
>deeply into a kick lately to try and invent acoustic
>instruments that sound as if they were electronic or processed and then 
>loop
>and process them.
>
>I feel like the companies are trying as hard as possible to make their drum
>machines sound realistic and I'm heading in the opposite
>direction................I guess I just dig the "NEW".    I'd be happy to
>talk about some creative ways for looping drummers
>to create new timbres for their acoustic drums that sound like they are on 
>a
>Portisehead record or whatever.  Again,  just let me
>know.
>
>The human being is so complex that the drum machine companies don't have a
>bat's chance in hell of truly duplicating
>the 'real' thing..............It is the artificiallity of the drum machine,
>ironically, that draws me to them..............I love the juxtaposition
>of the highly processed and articificial and the extremely primal and human
>and idiosyncratic natural.
>It is, after all,   the world we find ourselves in today!    Part of our
>existence here in this culture has to do with reconciling
>the modern/technological/computer driven and automated aspects of our
>culture with the urge to just bang on a tree trunk
>or pick at a piece of gut stretched over a gourd.     I say,    RECONCILE 
>it
>all!!!!   It's who we are anyway, n'cest pas?
>
>So we come full circle (if you haven't fallen asleep yet---------------boy
>am I long winded sometimes--------LOL) to
>Stan Ridgeway's comments about drum machine that should sound like
>appliances............
>
>towards that end, I have a new piece on my next abstract electronica CD,
>'Purple Hand' which I'm hoping to have finished by late summer and early
>fall where I took a $60 sampling Casio watch and drove around the bay area
>(to looping gigs, I might add...:-)
>and sampled really cool cash registers that I heard................it came
>out great............hope some of you get to hear it at some point.
>
>yours, in looping and drumming and the love of drum machines.
>
>Rick Walker (loop.pool)




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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 12 04:43:58 2002
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Hi!
unfortunately this would male me live on the street for the next half year...no, but my budget is not like that. Are there any budget alternatives that do the job nicely?

>
>buy an eventide processor...i'm sure you won't run out of pitchshifting
>options for quite some time.
>
>-jim
>


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 12 04:49:54 2002
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From: "terry o'brien" <anomalousdisturbances@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Is Electrix out of business?
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 01:48:02 -0700
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The signs don't seem encouraging do they?

Electrix is really IVL, based in Victoria, BC.  My brothers and a few 
friends did some beta testing for them a few years back.

I was at their plant when they were just developing the Elextrix line, in 
fact the working name at the time was 'groove station...or...somethin' or 
other ...can't remember.  I had to sign a non-disclosure agreement (hope I'm 
not breaking it now) and was only shown artist renderings of the housings.  
The units themselves were still in R&D stage, so it was more talk than 
listen to an actual effects unit. We had a demonstration of some circuit 
boards, wires and alligator clips that created some some sort of discernable 
processing - I think it was the genesis of MoEFX.  There was no mention of 
anything resembling the Repeater at the time - spring1998.

Last I spoke with them was just before the Repeater came out. I was trying 
to score one to use on my album, but they told me that The Edge was waiting 
for his and I'd have to wait....I'm still waiting!  I had my suspicions 
there was trouble when they deep-sixed the other units that proceeded the 
Repeater.  Well, ...they took me out for dinner and beers at least.

But..that's all I know (for what it's worth).  I'll see what I can find out.

Terry O'Brien
www.anomalousdisturbances.com

>From: Stuart Wyatt <stuart@solostring.com>
>Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>Subject: Is Electrix out of business?
>Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:02:48 +0200
>
>Hi,
>
>I've heard various rumours that Electrix is, or soon will be out of
>business. Their forum is like a ghostship, with the tech guy's long
>absence being put down to 'Holidays' and 'Illness'. There are rumours
>that there will be no more updates to the OS, and it has been stated by
>Lisa@Electrix that 'due to a restructure', shipping of Repeaters will be
>suspended.
>
>Does anyone on this list have any inside info?
>
>If the rumours are true, then it will be a sad day for the looping
>community. The potential of the Repeater is limitless - only let down
>here and there by a few software glitches. Given another year or two of
>development, and I could seriously see this box wipe the EDP off of the
>planet....
>
>--
>Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
>http://www.solostring.com
>stuart@solostring.com
>




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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 12 05:06:38 2002
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Hi,

For those who may be in the Vancouver, BC area, I'll be performing this 
Saturday night, June 15th. This is an underground event being held at The 
Arm (former home of an arm wrestling club) promoted by e-mail and 
word-of-mouth only. If interested, email me for address and details - 
terry@anomalousdisturbances.com

Here's a bit of the blurb being circulated;

This Saturday, The Arm will be test starting a new night called "The
Purple Turtle Lounge" featuring the best in local Ambient music.  
For this event we will be bringing you live ambient performances by
Anomalous Disturbances and Echoe, plus visuals by Brain Surgery.

Hope you can come down... it will be a very good night for sure. 
Terry (Anomalous Disturbances) is very experienced at make amazing
soundscapes, and Russ (Echoe) is going to be pushing reason to
the limits. I'll have the visuals set up, and lots of sofa's out.

Entrance fee: $5 donation.

Doors open at: 10pm
Live Music starts at: 11pm


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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 12 05:59:24 2002
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Hey :)

It looks as though I've won a couple of contracts! I pimped myself a 
little bit on a couple of forums, and got approached by a student film 
maker in the US who wants to use some of me recordings for the opening 
and closing credits for his short film. There is no money involved - 
just credits - but thats cool for me (and him).

I was also approached by a French film maker who heard me play in Place 
des Vosges a couple of months back who wants me to produce a complete 
film score. Its actually going to be paid work (although nothing 
amazing). I should know more on Friday when we meet.

Anyway, thanks again for all your suggestions from my earlier post!
--
Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
http://www.solostring.com
stuart@solostring.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 12 09:29:39 2002
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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:27:08 -0700
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From: "W. L.  Altman" <waltman@mta.ca>
Subject: naiive asks about Boss RC-20
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You folks seem pretty high-end, so I'm going to sound pretty dopey. 
But I want desperately to find an effect that will give me a very 
long delay with a long ( adjustable) decay time.

With my dream tool I could:
- Set a long delay time (10 seconds for the piece I'm working out 
now, but in the future the longer the better).
- set the number of repeats of each layer - the idea being that 
material will pass in and out of the texture for a pre-determined 
duration.
- set the decay rate or curve.  So (for example) I could have my 
analog signal continually overdubbing, repeating every 10 seconds, 
repeating 10 times and I could set the loops to either keep a 
consistent volume through the 10 reps and then drop out, leaving 
later material still repeating  - OR i could set a certain decay 
curve so that the earlier material fades to zero while new material 
is always predominant.

Oh and this is all real-time.  No bringing saved loops to the gig.

Anyway, I've played with a Jamman with extra 32" memory and although 
it doesn't have all the features I am keeping my eye out for one.

The features of the BOSS RC-20 seem interesting at the price to me. 
Fiddling with dials during performance is not necesarilly a problem 
since this is for a vocalist seated in front of the toys.
So for those with experience with the RC-20:  Can I loop indefinate # 
of loops up to the 5:30 limit?  If it plays  only ten loops, are 
these played real-time, simultaneously, and can I record the 10th 
loop while the previous 9 are playing?  Do any of these questions 
make sense?

For the piece I'm working on, I could make ten reps work since i have 
other effects going on.  Tempo, quantizing, etc are of not a concern. 
I will not use this as a practicing tool.  Also I imagine that with a 
looper as opposed to an echo-style delay unit, I won't get ANY decay, 
but for me that's better than having a decay that I can't finely 
adjust.

OK.  So if anyone has advice on the BOSS, or wants to suggest a 
similarly (or lower - ) priced alternative for my proposed purposes, 
I'd be greatly grateful!

Best.. W.L.
-- 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 12 10:07:12 2002
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Subject: Re: Is Electrix out of business?
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 14:04:30 +0000
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That would be bad news indeed. I'm just sorry I didn't 
pick up some of their products when stores were blowing 
them out. Their build quality was impressive as well as 
their capabilities. 'Hope my Repeater doesn't break!

Regards, Butch
> The signs don't seem encouraging do they?
> 
> Electrix is really IVL, based in Victoria, BC.  My brothers and a few 
> friends did some beta testing for them a few years back.
> 
> I was at their plant when they were just developing the Elextrix line, in 
> fact the working name at the time was 'groove station...or...somethin' or 
> other ...can't remember.  I had to sign a non-disclosure agreement (hope I'm 
> not breaking it now) and was only shown artist renderings of the housings.  
> The units themselves were still in R&D stage, so it was more talk than 
> listen to an actual effects unit. We had a demonstration of some circuit 
> boards, wires and alligator clips that created some some sort of discernable 
> processing - I think it was the genesis of MoEFX.  There was no mention of 
> anything resembling the Repeater at the time - spring1998.
> 
> Last I spoke with them was just before the Repeater came out. I was trying 
> to score one to use on my album, but they told me that The Edge was waiting 
> for his and I'd have to wait....I'm still waiting!  I had my suspicions 
> there was trouble when they deep-sixed the other units that proceeded the 
> Repeater.  Well, ...they took me out for dinner and beers at least.
> 
> But..that's all I know (for what it's worth).  I'll see what I can find out.
> 
> Terry O'Brien
> www.anomalousdisturbances.com
> 
> >From: Stuart Wyatt <stuart@solostring.com>
> >Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> >To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> >Subject: Is Electrix out of business?
> >Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:02:48 +0200
> >
> >Hi,
> >
> >I've heard various rumours that Electrix is, or soon will be out of
> >business. Their forum is like a ghostship, with the tech guy's long
> >absence being put down to 'Holidays' and 'Illness'. There are rumours
> >that there will be no more updates to the OS, and it has been stated by
> >Lisa@Electrix that 'due to a restructure', shipping of Repeaters will be
> >suspended.
> >
> >Does anyone on this list have any inside info?
> >
> >If the rumours are true, then it will be a sad day for the looping
> >community. The potential of the Repeater is limitless - only let down
> >here and there by a few software glitches. Given another year or two of
> >development, and I could seriously see this box wipe the EDP off of the
> >planet....
> >
> >--
> >Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
> >http://www.solostring.com
> >stuart@solostring.com
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 12 11:24:20 2002
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> Given another year or two of
>development, and I could seriously see this box wipe the EDP off of the planet....

surely you jest? very different boxes with different applications, 
methinks. I'm impressed by the feature set on the Repeater, but it 
ain't gonna replace the EDP - I can't really imagine swapping over...

cheers

Steve 
www.steve-lawson.co.uk 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 12 11:33:17 2002
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stuart@solostring.com writes:

>Given another year or two of 
>development, and I could seriously see this box wipe the EDP off of the
>planet....
development of the repeater --- insofar as i know --- was stalled sometime 
ago.
even so, i'd hafta say that further repeater development would certainly not 
have 'wiped the edp off the planet';
i have both units in regular use, and the conceptual 'root' for these 
instruments is markedly different.
imo: i find both to be extremely valuable tools, but:
if i wanna fuck w/real-time sampling & sample-editing & time-in-general (and 
i do), the edp (esp. w/LoopIV) is simply monstrous.
and: the edp has been a very long time in *continuous* development, longer 
than any other existing looping-device, i believe --- that, in itself :: 
given the high-intensity focus of its smarty-pants developers :: is rather 
meaningful.
and:
competition in the looping-device-manufacturing marketplace is *good* (though 
painfully lacking): the more devices there are, the merrier the further devel
opments will become, therein, i think.....
dude,
dt / splattercell
imi-ibi

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 12 11:43:19 2002
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Subject: Re: Repeater vs EDP 
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Yes, very different boxes.

For me the EDP, *especially* with Loop IV, is much more of an musical
instrument than the Repeater, which I catagorize as more "equipment-like".
While I'm hard pressed to give a strict definition, it has a lot to do with
the how much real-time control each has.

Dennis Leas
-------------------
dennis@mdbs.com


----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Lawson" <steve@steve-lawson.co.uk>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 11:24 AM
Subject: Repeater vs EDP


> > Given another year or two of
> >development, and I could seriously see this box wipe the EDP off of the
planet....
>
> surely you jest? very different boxes with different applications,
> methinks. I'm impressed by the feature set on the Repeater, but it
> ain't gonna replace the EDP - I can't really imagine swapping over...
>
> cheers
>
> Steve
> www.steve-lawson.co.uk
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 12 11:49:45 2002
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I bought a Repeater to use with my EDP and was very disappointed--I went
back to GC, got them to honor Alto's price and got a second EDP instead.
And now I have read the Guitar Player review and they didn't mention any of
it's weaknesses, which include the inability to end record with overdub and
that incredibly annoying delay on the dry signal.  There are lots of folks
on this list using this unit, but I found unusable for my purposes.  If I
had held onto the box I am sure I could have found things for it to do--but
it was no EDP (Senator, I resent that remark).
Gary
PS  After rereading the spec on the new LoopIV MIDI Control numbers, it
looks like I might not have to change anything to use the new OS.  I was a
little leery because of all those multiple commands I put on the PMC, but
the new features supersede these--I won't need some of them anymore!  I am
especially encouraged by the MIDI sync possibilities--hoo boy . . .
Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Lawson [mailto:steve@steve-lawson.co.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 9:25 AM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Repeater vs EDP


> Given another year or two of
>development, and I could seriously see this box wipe the EDP off of the
planet....

surely you jest? very different boxes with different applications,
methinks. I'm impressed by the feature set on the Repeater, but it
ain't gonna replace the EDP - I can't really imagine swapping over...

cheers

Steve
www.steve-lawson.co.uk

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 12 12:15:23 2002
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--- Chris Richards <kohntarkosz@yahoo.com> wrote:
> <<I'm that person - on a tip from Jon Wagner, I 
>   found Outlook Express' ability to filter
> messages to specific folders>>
> 
> You can do this also with Yahoo, I think. 

Yes. This is how I manage the mailing lists I participate in. Yahoo
mail lets me read it whenever I have access to a browser too, I'm not
stuck with any one particular machine.

> I'm pretty sure you could, say,
> have a folder for Looper's Delight, and tell
> Yahoo that everything you get from that one
> address to put it in that one folder.

That's exactly what I have.

Greg

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 12 12:18:33 2002
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  Howdy,
  Not really a comparison per se; for me the EDP is the
  place where I start the loops, and the Repeater is
  the final "net" where I catch the stuff once it's
  been magled through the rack. Both are really cool
  units, but quite different.
  Chris Olden



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 12 12:27:34 2002
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Hi, guys!

Is this video from loopstock availablke to buy somewhere? Since here in europe there is not really a "looping community" yet (hopefully it won´t take too long), I would very much like to see it to see how you guys over the ocean use the things.Probably I could get a lot of inspiration and learn many things...


>Mark Hamburg wrote:
>Note that my original phrasing and the phrasing for this thread was/is "pay
>attention" not "watch". I don't really care whether people watch me.
>Watching the video from Loopstock confirmed for me that I pretty much
>



From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 12 12:31:49 2002
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Rick,

In a message dated 6/11/02 11:07:18 PM, GLOBAL@cruzio.com writes:

>I love the juxtaposition of the highly processed and artificial
>and the extremely primal and human and idiosyncratic natural.

This is also one aspect of looping I've made it a point to explore 
again and again over the years -- the "natural" organism pushing, 
pulling, straining and ultimately violating/transending a "machine-
made" grid. 

In one "model" of looping, the loops help one person to
expand into several musical tasks (much like your story of 
the trap set). But, like drum machines, loops are not the 
same as human beings. Nobody . . . but nobody could play the 
same phrase over and over with a looper's precision. Nor 
would most "real live" musicians that I know want to. 

Ultimately, a looper's output will almost always have an artificial, 
somewhat mechanical aspect to it . . . to some extent (IMOHO). 
I find it interesting to not try to hide or avoid this . . . but to
exploit it -- and sometimes even highlight it to contrast with
what I'm doing otherwise (on whatever instrument I happen 
to be playing). Anybody else have thoughts on this?

And, as for "models" of looping (since I've mentioned it) 
what I find so very intriguing about Andre's experiments is 
that he seems to have stumbled onto a whole new model 
or way of thinking about what looping is or can be. Just 
how much of this is due to the new EDP software and
how much is his own (very real) musical brilliance is the
"chicken or the egg" question of the day. Whichever . . .
my hat is off to him and the Aurisis Research guys both!

Cheers,

Ted Killian

PS: Oh, and yes I am a guitarist (or I regularly impersonate 
one in public) and I am TERRIBLE at programming drum 
machines. I've owned precisely 3 at various times and have
not been able to program any of them to my satisfaction.
Now I own exactly none. And the world is a much better 
place for it.

Ciao!

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Perhaps this is a stupid question (I know not much about vocoders), but how can you use a vocoder for pitchshifting?


>I imagine something like the (now discontinued, sadly) Electrix Warp Factory vocoder would be the tool to pitch drums, and anything else.  I've set it up so that I can take a line from the drum machine to use as a formant and then apply it to my Repeater's effects loop, or the other way around.  Sonic mayhem results.
>



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On Wednesday, June 12, 2002, at 09:31 AM, David Kuckhermann wrote:

> Perhaps this is a stupid question (I know not much about vocoders), but 
> how can you use a vocoder for pitchshifting?

Not a stupid question at all, vocoders don't change the pitch, they 
impose formants from another source on target audio, like a fancy 
automatic set of tone controls.

  BUT, if you run drums in to analyze as formants, then use a built-in 
oscillator (or any sound source with controllable pitch) as the target 
audio, you can "change the pitch" of the drums by changing the 
oscillators frequency.

Not at all pitch shifting, but for things like drums, vocoding may sound 
better…

Best-

mark


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Most of you pros are already familiar with this trick, but I'll throw it
out there anyway while this thread is active:
A very inexpensive way to "live up" drum machines is to run the dry
output through a flanger on a long but not too deep sweep.  Then
run that output through your reverb.  This way you can get subtle
(or not so) seemingly random changes in the timbre of the drums.
You want to do it before reverb because the flange effect will be
too noticeable on sustained sounds -unless you want that.
This works great on drum machine open & closed hi-hats.
--
gary
@friendlyspider.com


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>(I know not much about vocoders), but how can you use a vocoder for
pitchshifting?


It can be done by changing the relationship between the analysing filters and
the synthesising ones:

Think of a vocoder like this: (physically impossible thought experiment follows)
You feed your voice into a spectrum analyser  and the sound that you want to
make 'talk' into a
graphic equaliser with the same frequency bands as the spectrum analyser.

Now rig things so that as the columns of lights on the spectrum analyser go up
and down they
wiggle the corresponding graphic eq slider up and down.. this is how a vocoder
works.

Now if you shift one of the components off to the side so that whereas before
the
100Hz->200Hz band on the analyser was wiggling the 100Hz-200Hz slider on the
graphic eq it now wiggles the 600->700Hz slider you've ended up with a pitch
shift
of sorts... even weirder things can happen if you flip one unit round so all the
high
tones in the 'voice' signal are modulating the low tones on the synth signal,
IIRC some early analogue vocoders used to have a patch bay to allow this sort
of experimentation. nowadays when it would be really easy to do this sort of
thing digitally no one seems to go beyond the norm.. pity :-)


Hope that helps a bit,
                                       Robin.




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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 12 13:07:40 2002
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Subject: Re: Adding character to drum machines...
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Running a drum machine through a Mooger Fooger 
low-pass filter is fun too. Lots of variation.


* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

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Subject: RE:  naiive asks about Boss RC-20
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I use the mighty Boss RC-20, so I'll try answering this, though
I think the answers will be true for other loop devices as
well.

The way the RC-20 works is you hit the Record/Overdub pedal,
and it records whatever signal(music) is going in.  It keeps on
recording until you hit the Rec/ODub pedal again.  Then it
immediately repeats what was recorded, over and over,
indefinitely.  There is no decay, and no provision for a pause
between repetitions.  If you want a specific number of 
repetitions of your loop, you'll have to count them as you
perform.

In order to add a silent delay between the sounds, you would
need to record it into the loop.  Eg. hit the Rec/ODub pedal,
record sounds, either stop making any sound or mute the signal
for the desired 'delay', then hit the Rec/ODub pedal again.

Once you have recorded sound/silence in a track, the Rec/ODub
pedal will layer new sounds on top of the first.  All of this
together is your loop, and the RC-20 can play only one loop
at a time.  It does have the capability to store 11 loops, but
they must be played independently.  If you are starting from
scratch in a live performance, the multiple loops won't do
you any good, though you might consider a low level pre-
recorded drone, such as an organ chord, as background.

The 5.5 min recording time is available to a single loop.


Yours in rhythm,
Steve

--------------------------------------------------------------
   Date:
        Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:27:08 -0700

   From:
        "W. L. Altman" <waltman@mta.ca>

     To:
        Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com

Subject:
        naiive asks about Boss RC-20



You folks seem pretty high-end, so I'm going to sound pretty
dopey.
But I want desperately to find an effect that will give me a
very
long delay with a long ( adjustable) decay time.


With my dream tool I could:
- Set a long delay time (10 seconds for the piece I'm working
out
now, but in the future the longer the better).
- set the number of repeats of each layer - the idea being that
material will pass in and out of the texture for a
pre-determined
duration.
- set the decay rate or curve.  So (for example) I could have
my
analog signal continually overdubbing, repeating every 10
seconds,
repeating 10 times and I could set the loops to either keep a
consistent volume through the 10 reps and then drop out,
leaving
later material still repeating  - OR i could set a certain
decay
curve so that the earlier material fades to zero while new
material
is always predominant.

Oh and this is all real-time.  No bringing saved loops to the
gig.

Anyway, I've played with a Jamman with extra 32" memory and
although
it doesn't have all the features I am keeping my eye out for
one.

The features of the BOSS RC-20 seem interesting at the price to
me.
Fiddling with dials during performance is not necesarilly a
problem
since this is for a vocalist seated in front of the toys.
So for those with experience with the RC-20:  Can I loop
indefinate #
of loops up to the 5:30 limit?  If it plays  only ten loops,
are
these played real-time, simultaneously, and can I record the
10th
loop while the previous 9 are playing?  Do any of these
questions
make sense?

For the piece I'm working on, I could make ten reps work since
i have
other effects going on.  Tempo, quantizing, etc are of not a
concern.
I will not use this as a practicing tool.  Also I imagine that
with a
looper as opposed to an echo-style delay unit, I won't get ANY
decay,
but for me that's better than having a decay that I can't
finely
adjust.

OK.  So if anyone has advice on the BOSS, or wants to suggest a
similarly (or lower - ) priced alternative for my proposed
purposes,
I'd be greatly grateful!





__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

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Subject: Re: Adding character to drum machines...
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I use many different things to do this- all of them are on Aux-
1- EQ Killer- boost/cut freqs and remove freqs for breaks
2- MoFx- for synced delays, flanges, tremolo (fast setting- tight square
wave- low freq), and overdrive
3- M-One- verbs and more synced delays
4- Filter Factory- synced and subdivided envalope follower and filters, more
overdrive
5- EQ on the mixer channels

One of the first things I go for is synced delay of some sort- creates
polyrhythms- and I think all different amounts of overdrive/distortion can
help a weak drum machine sound so much better- next would be EQ of all
sorts- and verbs also change the char favorably- last thing I usually go for
is the filtering as it is more "effect like" than any of the others although
if used subtley can be another great enhancement-

Last- I can't wait for the new LoopIV to arrive in the mail- the new syncing
abilities sound great-

Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Beardsley" <db@biink.com>
To: <gary@friendlyspider.com>; <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: Adding character to drum machines...


> Running a drum machine through a Mooger Fooger
> low-pass filter is fun too. Lots of variation.
>
>
> * David Beardsley
> * http://biink.com
> * http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley
>
>
>


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 12 13:29:18 2002
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David Beardsley wrote:

> Running a drum machine through a Mooger Fooger
> low-pass filter is fun too. Lots of variation.
>
> * David Beardsley
> * http://biink.com
> * http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

my moogerfooger loves drum machines as well! and the flanger trick seems
like a good one ...try all your stomp boxes, wyai...

lance g.


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In a message dated 6/12/02 12:29:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
ArsOcarina@aol.com writes:


> Nobody . . . but nobody could play the 
> same phrase over and over with a looper's precision. Nor 
> would most "real live" musicians that I know want to. 
> 

ted.....lately this is what i have been trying to do, not for extreemly long 
time periods mind you but with the absense of "undo" on the rang, there are 
times i want to add to the loop but only for a "period of time" and have that 
material drop out at a certain point.....it becomes a little zenny trying to 
duplicate the metronomic aspect of a looper and i have gotten to the point 
where i confuse myself and think its the rang playing my live part.....it is 
sort of neat to become one with the machine.....let me know when the "borg" 
are coming.....michael

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 6/12/02 12:29:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ArsOcarina@aol.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Nobody . . . but nobody could play the <BR>
same phrase over and over with a looper's precision. Nor <BR>
would most "real live" musicians that I know want to. <BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
ted.....lately this is what i have been trying to do, not for extreemly long time periods mind you but with the absense of "undo" on the rang, there are times i want to add to the loop but only for a "period of time" and have that material drop out at a certain point.....it becomes a little zenny trying to duplicate the metronomic aspect of a looper and i have gotten to the point where i confuse myself and think its the rang playing my live part.....it is sort of neat to become one with the machine.....let me know when the "borg" are coming.....michael</FONT></HTML>

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 <A HREF="http://industryclick.com/magazinearticle.asp?magazineid=33&releaseid=10207&magazinearticleid=149011&siteid=15">Click here: ABLETON LIVE 1.1 (MAC/WIN)</A> 

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 12 14:03:02 2002
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From: SRice <srice44@yahoo.com>
Subject: re:  OT: Drum machines vs. Human beings
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Wow, another amazing Rick post!

Part of the history of jazz has been repeated in West African
drumming.  Traditionally, there are three dunnuns(barrel drums
played with sticks) each with a bell, and three drummers on
them.  Each drum would be mounted sideways.  The ensemble
would also include lead and accompainment djembe players.  To
save travel and payroll costs when the groups toured, the
drums were turned vertically and put in a 'kit' so a single
drummer could play all three of them at once.

Regarding drum machines, as a drummer I am uninterested in
them, but like Rick, interested in extending the natural
tonality of my accoustic drums.  Rick, any discussion of
technique here on that is welcome.  As I said once before,
it's weird but fun to take my beautiful, natural accoustic
drums and make them sound like cheap drum machines.

Yours in rhythm,
Steve


---------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 23:07:06 -0700

   From: "Rick Walker/Loop.pooL" <GLOBAL@cruzio.com>

     To: "Loopers Delight"
<Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>

Subject:  OT: Drum machines vs. Human beings


Dave wrote:
"Years ago I read an interview with Stan Ridgeway, then still
with
Wall of Voodoo, where he said that drum machines ought to sound
like
appliances. I liked that. If you want human feel, get a human!
"

I laughed at this quote!    There is a place where I agree.

I have been a professional drummer and multi-percussionist all
of my adult
life and am constantly besieged
with questions about both drum machines, sequencers and looping
devices............."Aren't you afraid of
putting musicians out of work"  These are my thoughts about
this sort of
question and my feelings about
drum machines in general.

...

I feel like the companies are trying as hard as possible to
make their drum
machines sound realistic and I'm heading in the opposite
direction................I guess I just dig the "NEW".    I'd
be happy to
talk about some creative ways for looping drummers
to create new timbres for their acoustic drums that sound like
they are on a
Portisehead record or whatever.  Again,  just let me
know.



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 12 14:31:53 2002
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Right. That's exactly what I meant.  More of a superimposing of tone, than a
tonal shift.  Good because you can get a very large frequency range without
sounding digitally munched, though vocoders have their own artifacts.  I
find them more musical to listen to.

Mark Sottilaro

"Mark S. Landman" wrote:

> On Wednesday, June 12, 2002, at 09:31 AM, David Kuckhermann wrote:
>
> > Perhaps this is a stupid question (I know not much about vocoders), but
> > how can you use a vocoder for pitchshifting?
>
> Not a stupid question at all, vocoders don't change the pitch, they
> impose formants from another source on target audio, like a fancy
> automatic set of tone controls.
>
>   BUT, if you run drums in to analyze as formants, then use a built-in
> oscillator (or any sound source with controllable pitch) as the target
> audio, you can "change the pitch" of the drums by changing the
> oscillators frequency.
>
> Not at all pitch shifting, but for things like drums, vocoding may sound
> better…
>
> Best-
>
> mark

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 12 14:36:52 2002
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Subject: Re: Pitch-shifting percussion sounds in realtime...
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 13:33:04 +0100
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i didn't mean that you should buy a pair of orvilles ; ) but i know those
units are generally muy expensivo.  some of the older units can be had for a
reasonable sum on ebay and you could dedicate the entire unit to
pitchshifting and variants thereof.

just an idea.  i'm sure there are plenty of other machines that could fit
the bill, but i'm not aware of them.

-jim


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On Wednesday, June 12, 2002, at 06:24 PM, Steve Lawson wrote:

>> Given another year or two of
>> development, and I could seriously see this box wipe the EDP off of 
>> the planet....
>
> surely you jest? very different boxes with different applications,
> methinks. I'm impressed by the feature set on the Repeater, but it
> ain't gonna replace the EDP - I can't really imagine swapping over...

I think I should stop posting during breakfast and be more awake :)

When I wrote what I wrote, I meant it, but in the light of the potential 
hardware utilisation. The 4 independent tracks, potentially 4 
independent outs, a number of potential inputs, higher clock 
speeds....etc.

All this is let down by unfinished and buggy software.

As it stands, the Repeater is only the yang that goes with the ying in 
your current setup (in my case, a DL4 - others the EDP) - but given a 
couple years of intensive software development, the more up-to-date 
hardware of the Repeater could override the EDP once it was utilised 
correctly. Imagine a version of LoopIV for the Repeater? Its possible if 
Electrix release the hardware specs into the open source community. 
However, I'm not sure if this will happen.

I for one, would love to have an EDP in my setup. I have a feeling that 
it is the ultimate ying.

--
Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
http://www.solostring.com
stuart@solostring.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 12 14:53:19 2002
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Open source Repeater OS development? That would be great!

Oh- just a note- its "yin"

Cliff

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stuart Wyatt" <stuart@solostring.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 11:43 AM
Subject: Re: Repeater vs EDP 


> 
> On Wednesday, June 12, 2002, at 06:24 PM, Steve Lawson wrote:
> 
> >> Given another year or two of
> >> development, and I could seriously see this box wipe the EDP off of 
> >> the planet....
> >
> > surely you jest? very different boxes with different applications,
> > methinks. I'm impressed by the feature set on the Repeater, but it
> > ain't gonna replace the EDP - I can't really imagine swapping over...
> 
> I think I should stop posting during breakfast and be more awake :)
> 
> When I wrote what I wrote, I meant it, but in the light of the potential 
> hardware utilisation. The 4 independent tracks, potentially 4 
> independent outs, a number of potential inputs, higher clock 
> speeds....etc.
> 
> All this is let down by unfinished and buggy software.
> 
> As it stands, the Repeater is only the yang that goes with the ying in 
> your current setup (in my case, a DL4 - others the EDP) - but given a 
> couple years of intensive software development, the more up-to-date 
> hardware of the Repeater could override the EDP once it was utilised 
> correctly. Imagine a version of LoopIV for the Repeater? Its possible if 
> Electrix release the hardware specs into the open source community. 
> However, I'm not sure if this will happen.
> 
> I for one, would love to have an EDP in my setup. I have a feeling that 
> it is the ultimate ying.
> 
> --
> Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
> http://www.solostring.com
> stuart@solostring.com
> 
> 


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 12 14:53:36 2002
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I believe there is video, as I got (thank you Hans!) a copy of my group's performance a little while ago.  The one problem is, my VCR's dying and wouldn't play it for some reason.  (it's very touchy in it's old age)  Maybe this is a good thing, as I can imagine how great we were.

More importantly, I'd love to hear the recordings.

Mark Sottilaro

David Kuckhermann wrote:

> Hi, guys!
>
> Is this video from loopstock availablke to buy somewhere? Since here in europe there is not really a "looping community" yet (hopefully it won´t take too long), I would very much like to see it to see how you guys over the ocean use the things.Probably I could get a lot of inspiration and learn many things...
>
> >Mark Hamburg wrote:
> >Note that my original phrasing and the phrasing for this thread was/is "pay
> >attention" not "watch". I don't really care whether people watch me.
> >Watching the video from Loopstock confirmed for me that I pretty much
> >

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Subject: Re: Film score update
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Congratulations!
Cliff

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stuart Wyatt" <stuart@solostring.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 2:56 AM
Subject: Film score update


> Hey :)
> 
> It looks as though I've won a couple of contracts! I pimped myself a 
> little bit on a couple of forums, and got approached by a student film 
> maker in the US who wants to use some of me recordings for the opening 
> and closing credits for his short film. There is no money involved - 
> just credits - but thats cool for me (and him).
> 
> I was also approached by a French film maker who heard me play in Place 
> des Vosges a couple of months back who wants me to produce a complete 
> film score. Its actually going to be paid work (although nothing 
> amazing). I should know more on Friday when we meet.
> 
> Anyway, thanks again for all your suggestions from my earlier post!
> --
> Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
> http://www.solostring.com
> stuart@solostring.com
> 
> 
> 


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 12 14:55:46 2002
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Yeah, if drum loop programming is off topic, I don't know what would be
on topic!  Tricks!  Post tricks!

Mark Sottilaro

John Tidwell wrote:

> --- "Rick Walker/Loop.pooL" <GLOBAL@cruzio.com> wrote:
> >
> > As a matter of fact, if any one is interested in
> > this very off topic chain,
> > maybe I could show you guys some great tricks for
> > programming drum machines in the most simple and
> > effective ways for your
> > music.   Just let me know if anyone is interested
> > and I"ll post these tricks
> > when I have time.
>
> I don't think it's off-topic at all, considering how
> many of us have a drum machine hooked up to our
> loopers. I hope you'll share some of your tips &
> tricks with us. I could use a good kick-start. I
> can tweak parameters on an effects box for hours
> (& have a good time doing it); but when it comes to
> drum machines, I'd rather be hit with a stick than
> try to program one.
>
> John
>
> =====
> John Tidwell
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
> http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

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I don't want to swamp the list with this subject... just a quick followup to 
your comments, Steve.

While I'm dubbing-over the initial loop I assume the original loop is sent 
through the output (maybe combined with my "live' signal)?  Then on the 
next pass, ,is the output sending the original loop PLUS the overdub from 
the previous pass?

Can I keep building layers indefinitely in overdub mode?

In old-fashioned recording terms, in overdub mode am I "bouncing" the 
real-time material onto my original loop "track" as I go?  If I can just keep 
making passes while my sounds accumulate, then RC-20 provides most 
of my wishlist in one box.

Thanks... W.L.

Quoting SRice <srice44@yahoo.com>:


> The way the RC-20 works is you hit the Record/Overdub pedal,
> and it records whatever signal(music) is going in.  It keeps on
> recording until you hit the Rec/ODub pedal again.  Then it
> immediately repeats what was recorded, over and over,
> indefinitely. 


> Once you have recorded sound/silence in a track, the Rec/ODub
> pedal will layer new sounds on top of the first.

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Subject: Re: Repeater vs EDP 
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On Wednesday, June 12, 2002, at 08:50 PM, Clifford Novey wrote:

> Open source Repeater OS development? That would be great!

I wonder what they would say if this was proposed to them. I'm not a 
programmer, but I'm sure that there will be Repeater owners who are. As 
Electrix make the hardware, they are hardly going to lose out on 
something like this.

> Oh- just a note- its "yin"

Damn... how that one slipped through, I dont know. :(

--
Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
http://www.solostring.com
stuart@solostring.com

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i'd like to hear what you could do with an edp as well.
maybe you should try another fund-raiser...

> 
> I for one, would love to have an EDP in my setup. I have a feeling that 
> it is the ultimate ying.
> 
> --
> Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
> http://www.solostring.com
> stuart@solostring.com
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 12 15:52:24 2002
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I've been reading the reviews and pondering, but I have a couple more questions...

There is one "master" bus in the app right?  Is there any way to create multiple master busses (for quad)?  I know that you can assign channels to other outputs of your sound card, but can you assign multiple channels to the the same outputs as a workaround?

The EM review sort of contradicted itself.  It said that LIVE supported MIDI Clock, but then it also said that the new 1.5 version would support MIDI clock.  Does it or doesn't it?

Is there one loop per channel or multiple loops per channel, but only one active at a time?

Is there support for no synchronization?  Can I have multiple non-synchronous loops going or will all loops be stretched to match the tempo (or a subdivision of the tempo)?

thanks!

   Kevin

--
-------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Goldsmith                          kevin@unitcircle.com
Unit Circle Media                   http://www.unitcircle.com
--

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>
>Now if you shift one of the components off to the side so that whereas before
>the
>100Hz->200Hz band on the analyser was wiggling the 100Hz-200Hz slider on the
>graphic eq it now wiggles the 600->700Hz slider you've ended up with a pitch
>shift
>of sorts... even weirder things can happen if you flip one unit round so 
>all the
>high
>tones in the 'voice' signal are modulating the low tones on the synth signal,
>IIRC some early analogue vocoders used to have a patch bay to allow this sort
>of experimentation. nowadays when it would be really easy to do this sort of
>thing digitally no one seems to go beyond the norm.. pity :-)

The Nord Modular vocoder allows this type of crossing patching
and includes a randomizer which can produce some fun results.

Cheers,
Scott M2

http://www.dreamSTATE.to
ambientelectronicsoundscapes
http://www.THEAMBiENTPiNG.com

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Me thinks it's too early to be doing a ulogy, but when I heard they were shelving
all their other products, I was amazed.  The Repeater works with such synergy
with other Electrix products.  I'm sad I never got a Filter Factory.  Anyone want
to trade a Filter Factory for a MoFX?  I'll through in cash...

Mark Sottilaro

paulrichard10@attbi.com wrote:

> That would be bad news indeed. I'm just sorry I didn't
> pick up some of their products when stores were blowing
> them out. Their build quality was impressive as well as
> their capabilities. 'Hope my Repeater doesn't break!
>
> Regards, Butch
> > The signs don't seem encouraging do they?
> >
> > Electrix is really IVL, based in Victoria, BC.  My brothers and a few
> > friends did some beta testing for them a few years back.
> >
> > I was at their plant when they were just developing the Elextrix line, in
> > fact the working name at the time was 'groove station...or...somethin' or
> > other ...can't remember.  I had to sign a non-disclosure agreement (hope I'm
> > not breaking it now) and was only shown artist renderings of the housings.
> > The units themselves were still in R&D stage, so it was more talk than
> > listen to an actual effects unit. We had a demonstration of some circuit
> > boards, wires and alligator clips that created some some sort of discernable
> > processing - I think it was the genesis of MoEFX.  There was no mention of
> > anything resembling the Repeater at the time - spring1998.
> >
> > Last I spoke with them was just before the Repeater came out. I was trying
> > to score one to use on my album, but they told me that The Edge was waiting
> > for his and I'd have to wait....I'm still waiting!  I had my suspicions
> > there was trouble when they deep-sixed the other units that proceeded the
> > Repeater.  Well, ...they took me out for dinner and beers at least.
> >
> > But..that's all I know (for what it's worth).  I'll see what I can find out.
> >
> > Terry O'Brien
> > www.anomalousdisturbances.com
> >
> > >From: Stuart Wyatt <stuart@solostring.com>
> > >Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> > >To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> > >Subject: Is Electrix out of business?
> > >Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:02:48 +0200
> > >
> > >Hi,
> > >
> > >I've heard various rumours that Electrix is, or soon will be out of
> > >business. Their forum is like a ghostship, with the tech guy's long
> > >absence being put down to 'Holidays' and 'Illness'. There are rumours
> > >that there will be no more updates to the OS, and it has been stated by
> > >Lisa@Electrix that 'due to a restructure', shipping of Repeaters will be
> > >suspended.
> > >
> > >Does anyone on this list have any inside info?
> > >
> > >If the rumours are true, then it will be a sad day for the looping
> > >community. The potential of the Repeater is limitless - only let down
> > >here and there by a few software glitches. Given another year or two of
> > >development, and I could seriously see this box wipe the EDP off of the
> > >planet....
> > >
> > >--
> > >Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
> > >http://www.solostring.com
> > >stuart@solostring.com
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
> >

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 12 16:21:43 2002
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Here we go again...  :()

Stuart, I don't want to reiterate what everyone else has already said,
but I would make the following remarks:

I think the Repeater is great, and it's wonderful that there's another
powerful, dedicated loop box on the market that's expanding the way
people think of looping.  I don't have any problem with the Repeater, or
Electrix, or the people who use the Repeater.  What I DO take exception
to is the attitude that the Repeater can, or would, "blow away" the EDP
due to its being "more sophisticated in design."

On the surface level, it's an easy assumption to make: true stereo,
multiple tracks, data storage and retrieval, digital output,
pitch-shifting, time-stretching...  these are things the EDP doesn't
have (nor does ANY hardware device of which I'm aware which was first
manufactured in 1993/1994).

What the EDP DOES have is an incredibly deep and innovative
architecture, the design for which is pretty unique to itself, with
features that have never been duplicated in other units.

In other words, if you tell someone, "The Repeater has four simultaneous
tracks, timestretching, and pitch-shifting," people can visualize how
those things work and sound in their mind's ear.

But if you tell someone, "The EDP LoopIV upgrade now has Unrounded
Multiply and Rounded Insert=SUS available via MIDI independently of the
given Quantization mode, and Cycle+Confirm Switch-Quantization," you're
going to get a lot of blank stares from people who don't know about the
EDP's architecture.

I've been using an EDP for about six and a half year, and I'm only now
starting to fully wrap my head around its potential.  The Repeater is
wonderful, no doubt, and my fingers are crossed that Electrix can
somehow keep things together long enough to continue to develop and
evolve their OS.  

But to assume that the Repeater OS would "blow away" the very different
(and incredibly deep) EDP OS is simply not an informed comment to make
from someone like yourself, who I don't believe has ever even used an
EDP in the first place.  

I say this very respectfully, because I like the work I've heard you do.
 But because you're good at what you do, and because you take looping so
seriously, I think it's that much more important that you have a solid
understanding about the full scope of the available products prior to
making judgement calls like this.

Anyway... rant over.  I hope you can afford an EDP in the near future.  :)

--Andre LaFosse
http://www.altruistmusic.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 12 16:35:16 2002
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Subject: Re: Is Electrix out of business?
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There are 4 on Ebay right now.

c

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Sottilaro" <sine@zerocrossing.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: Is Electrix out of business?


> Me thinks it's too early to be doing a ulogy, but when I heard they were
shelving
> all their other products, I was amazed.  The Repeater works with such
synergy
> with other Electrix products.  I'm sad I never got a Filter Factory.
Anyone want
> to trade a Filter Factory for a MoFX?  I'll through in cash...
>
> Mark Sottilaro
>
> paulrichard10@attbi.com wrote:
>
> > That would be bad news indeed. I'm just sorry I didn't
> > pick up some of their products when stores were blowing
> > them out. Their build quality was impressive as well as
> > their capabilities. 'Hope my Repeater doesn't break!
> >
> > Regards, Butch
> > > The signs don't seem encouraging do they?
> > >
> > > Electrix is really IVL, based in Victoria, BC.  My brothers and a few
> > > friends did some beta testing for them a few years back.
> > >
> > > I was at their plant when they were just developing the Elextrix line,
in
> > > fact the working name at the time was 'groove station...or...somethin'
or
> > > other ...can't remember.  I had to sign a non-disclosure agreement
(hope I'm
> > > not breaking it now) and was only shown artist renderings of the
housings.
> > > The units themselves were still in R&D stage, so it was more talk than
> > > listen to an actual effects unit. We had a demonstration of some
circuit
> > > boards, wires and alligator clips that created some some sort of
discernable
> > > processing - I think it was the genesis of MoEFX.  There was no
mention of
> > > anything resembling the Repeater at the time - spring1998.
> > >
> > > Last I spoke with them was just before the Repeater came out. I was
trying
> > > to score one to use on my album, but they told me that The Edge was
waiting
> > > for his and I'd have to wait....I'm still waiting!  I had my
suspicions
> > > there was trouble when they deep-sixed the other units that proceeded
the
> > > Repeater.  Well, ...they took me out for dinner and beers at least.
> > >
> > > But..that's all I know (for what it's worth).  I'll see what I can
find out.
> > >
> > > Terry O'Brien
> > > www.anomalousdisturbances.com
> > >
> > > >From: Stuart Wyatt <stuart@solostring.com>
> > > >Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> > > >To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> > > >Subject: Is Electrix out of business?
> > > >Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:02:48 +0200
> > > >
> > > >Hi,
> > > >
> > > >I've heard various rumours that Electrix is, or soon will be out of
> > > >business. Their forum is like a ghostship, with the tech guy's long
> > > >absence being put down to 'Holidays' and 'Illness'. There are rumours
> > > >that there will be no more updates to the OS, and it has been stated
by
> > > >Lisa@Electrix that 'due to a restructure', shipping of Repeaters will
be
> > > >suspended.
> > > >
> > > >Does anyone on this list have any inside info?
> > > >
> > > >If the rumours are true, then it will be a sad day for the looping
> > > >community. The potential of the Repeater is limitless - only let down
> > > >here and there by a few software glitches. Given another year or two
of
> > > >development, and I could seriously see this box wipe the EDP off of
the
> > > >planet....
> > > >
> > > >--
> > > >Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
> > > >http://www.solostring.com
> > > >stuart@solostring.com
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> > > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
> > >
>
>


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Subject: Re: The Best Live Drum Machine
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Hey all, long time no see!

>      I didn't buy this as a drum machine, though it totally kicks the
llama's butt.  I bought it
> to replace my Proteus 2000 which I used as a sound module with both my
keyboard and my Axon guitar
> synth.  Basically, it's a 16 channel sequencer with an incredible user
interface for live
> manipulation.  Each of the 16 tracks can be punched in or out with
dedicated buttons.  16 knobs
> control volume or pan for each track, OR editing of 16 different
parameters of a selected internal
> sound, OR sending those 16 knobs out to control external gear via midi.
>

An alternate opinion: This is my main unit, and I've totally out grown the
sequencer. It's a toy! Then again, it doesn't have all that much
competition - apart from the RM1x by yamaha, (that I've been told has a much
more full fledged sequencer and supposedly a terrible sound set - I haven't
tried it) theres only the Roland stuff. The sounds in the ROMs are very
nice.

The most kick ass drum machine available now? Reason. Load your own samples,
assign sequencers to your computer keyboard or a midi controller. Mute and
solo single instruments (ie snare, bd, hihat etc) on the fly (also from the
keys or midi). Can't be beat. If only it would control external modules,
rather than just sending midi clock.... It's also stable - I've never had a
crash.

(You may notice, at my next gig, the presence of a laptop next to my xl-7
'command podium' :>)

>      To address the thread of keeping your "drum machine" sounding
interesting, I would suggest
> keeping your loops long.  The sequencer on this beast can play up to 32
measures (at any crazy
> time signature that you like) giving you the opportunity to play the same
thing over and over with
> subtle inflections and differences each time.  Let's say you have a 4/4
pattern at 4 measures
> long, you can repeat this segment 8 times before looping it.  Each track
can be quantized (or not)
> at a different quantization setting.
>

Yes, though you are then stuck with that 32 bar loop. A bit too much 'DJ' to
me.

>
>      In a live situation, it is a 16 track looper, much like the Repeater,
though you can only use
> the internal sounds via midi (or external midi units too), as opposed to
audio looping.  First I
> set my loop length, start recording on track 1, (I can continue to add
more and more sounds as it
> comes back around) then switch to track 2 (with a different sound) and
layer that in etc.  I can
> transpose tracks on the fly, add modulation or pitch bend, mess with the
FX, trigger up to 16
> different arpeggiators, play the one octave keypads, alter the master
tempo in a variety of ways,
> the possiblities are legion.
>

Although, unlike a real looping box, you can't undo. This is a total
showstopper! I'm not laying down any loop live unless I can keep trying till
I get it right. Especially with midi stuff, where 'artistic license' (ie
shitty playing) don't sound nearly as organic and musical when looped.

I found the arpeggios to be pretty much unuseable, myself, and programming
your own is too time consuming for practical use. I wish they could make
this easier, or at least provide some more general arpeggios - single note
'gate' riffs, filter sweeps and pans etc. The 'Beats' section is even more
bedroom.

>      I haven't tried this yet, though I could input all of the tracks from
my guitar synth, adding
> to the "live" aspect.  Combined with a midi foot pedal controller like the
FCB1010, many functions
> can be controlled via foot pedals.

If you can find the midi implementation specs. Sure, you can start and stop
the box, but note much else, until the specs are published. You can't launch
tracks from another unit. There is no sound diver interface either - big
loss for the power user.

>
>      Unlike most midi gear that I've played with, the user interface on
this beast is very
> friendly (as opposed to almost anything else that Emu has produced since
they stopped doing the
> modular synth from the 70's.)  The support staff has been great as well.
>

Friendly? yes. but also simplistic. It's not a very ambitious unit. 16
tracks of on/off, plus filter sweeps, and lots of preset 'grooves'.

For $800, you get a 16 knob/16 button midi controller, a kick-ass Rompler, a
mediocre sequencer and a moderatley useful one octave pad keyboard - a good
deal to me, especially if you have other gear to make up for it's short
comings. Make sure you listen to the various modules and find the one that
has the sounds for you. Also, be aware that you're going to end up buying
extra Roms for it. They're all too nice :>

>      Recently the price on the XL-7 and the MP-7 came down to $1,000
(street price), to match the
> Proteus 2500.  Both the XL-7 and the MP-7 have the one octave keypads with
aftertouch, a
> touchstrip ribbon controller and a 12v gooseneck light outlet, which do
not appear on the Proteus
> 2500.  The main distinguishing feature between all three is that they come
with their own sound
> chip, (with three extra slots for more sounds).

Also the P2500 won't sit on your lap or on a desk, has no keyboard, and
won't lie flat in a 'mixer rack' Personally I think it's a seriously
misguided peice of hardware. The XL/MPs make more sense though they are more
garish :>

>      And there's a fantastic YahooGroup mailing list for these machines
(second only to LD), with
> two Emu guys on it to answer and clarify any bugs or questions.  Many of
the current upgrades came
> from this list.
>

Actually there's more than two emu guys on the list, though I haven't seen
all that many upgrades come from our suggestions yet :>

>      My main quibble with it is the choice of color, which a can of spray
paint should be able to
> address.
>

Yes, gold chrome with purple fur trimmings ::>

back in the saddle again,

bIz

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On Wednesday, June 12, 2002, at 10:17 PM, Andre LaFosse wrote:
> Anyway... rant over.  I hope you can afford an EDP in the near 
> future.  :)

Sorry if you took offense. I have a habit of speaking my mind, which 
itself might be incorrect due to my opinions, musical direction, 
experience and lack of knowledge. It was wrong to compare the EDP with 
the Repeater in the way that I did. [/eat humble pie]

I think my point earlier was just due to my frustration that I might be 
stuck permanently with OS1.1 - Its buggy, could have so many options, 
more midi implementation etc. etc. I have found it highly limited at 
times. Given time, testings etc. etc. I really think that the Repeater 
can be a mind blowing gadget. I know the hardware exists inside the box, 
and it is just up to the software to route/process audio. [/rant]

But now, more than anything, I want an EDP. To hear how passionate 
people are about this box really highlights my ignorance in the unit, 
and feeling embarrassed for saying what I did. It might be because they 
are quite rare in Europe, and I have never met anyone who actually has 
one.

[Curses sheltered life]

--
Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
http://www.solostring.com
stuart@solostring.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 12 17:06:04 2002
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Subject: Repeater OS hack Pipe Dream [was Repeater vs EDP]
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"I think my point earlier was just due to my frustration that I might be
stuck permanently with OS1.1 - Its buggy, could have so many options,
more midi implementation etc. etc. I have found it highly limited at
times. Given time, testings etc. etc. I really think that the Repeater
can be a mind blowing gadget. I know the hardware exists inside the box,
and it is just up to the software to route/process audio. [/rant]"

Agreed!

Given that OS 1.1 was distributed and can be applied by using CFC's...

we know that the OS can be rewritten using the CFC holding the new code
we have access to the 1.1 update code directly (it is on the card)

Is it possible to write a NEW OS?  One that could do what we wanted to given
the hardware and the existing internal wireing.

First, need to know if OS 1.1 is a PATCH or if it is the entire code...
if Patch:
	What are the mechanics of the patch?  Can it be reverse engineered?
if complete:
	Can it be decompiled?

In any event, input from the original OS engineers would be recquired...

Like I said... just a half baked Pipe Dream.

-Nathan


                                                                  .-.
     .-.                       .-.                               /   \
    /   \       .-.           /   \       .-.     .-.           /     \
 --/-----\-----/---\----N-a-t-h-a-n---@---G-i-z-a-.-c-o-m------/-------\
  /       \   /     \       /       \   /     '-'     \       /         \
           '-'       \     /         '-'               \     /
                      \   /                             \   /
                       '-'                               '-'


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 12 17:19:29 2002
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From: SRice <srice44@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Boss RC-20
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Hey, this is pretty on-topic for loopers-delight.  ;)

Yes, the RC-20 functions as you describe.  It
continues to play the loop as new dubs are added.
The dry signal is also passed through.  The wet/dry
mix is usually controlled via a mixer, with the looper
on a send/return path.  It is possible to use the
RC-20 by itself, ie plug the source and PA into it
directly, although I have never used it that way.
(by coincidence I'm exploring that topic, but more later.)

I don't think you can change the mix, or the feedback
within the Boss.  So, while there is no limit to the number of
overdubs, each time the older material gets a little
weaker.  With only a few dubs this is not too significant,
but you can make this a 'feature' by slowing evolving
your loop into something very different as the original
material fades out.

Yours in rhythm,
Steve

------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 16:22:27 -0300 (ADT)

   From: waltman@mta.ca

     To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com

Subject: RE: Boss RC-20



I don't want to swamp the list with this subject... just a
quick followup to
your comments, Steve.

While I'm dubbing-over the initial loop I assume the original
loop is sent
through the output (maybe combined with my "live' signal)?
Then on the
next pass, ,is the output sending the original loop PLUS the
overdub from
the previous pass?

Can I keep building layers indefinitely in overdub mode?

In old-fashioned recording terms, in overdub mode am I
"bouncing" the
real-time material onto my original loop "track" as I go?  If I
can just keep
making passes while my sounds accumulate, then RC-20 provides
most
of my wishlist in one box.



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
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Hi All...I have been away for a few days, and now have had the tenuous joy 
of going thru this rather intensive thread on drum machines vs. humanity and 
some rather clever tricks to "personalise" drum machine loops.
I have had a good deal of experience with the public "distrust" of 
mechanized rhythms.  When I began doing looping shows I was quite into the 
one man band aspect of things; I had set up a hefty pedalboard (at one time 
17 pedals!) and rack mount processing in front of the looper, and tended to 
process each OD'd pass to the extreme.  To add to this, I would midi-sync a 
drum machine, mostly so that while using a JamMan I could move to seperate 
loops whilst staying in sync.  The drum Machine, would sometimes have 
multiple pattern which would be footswitched for different feels or "song" 
sections.
All in all I was fairly pleased with stuff I had worked out in the privacy 
of my own home....but, once I strated playing out I realized there might be 
a problem "communicating" using this sort of technology.  For solo bass 
stuff (sans drum machines), no matter how heavily processed, looped or 
"outside" the music was, the audience was mostly rapt with attention.  The 
whole concept of real-time loops was generally accepted, with a certain 
level of mystery, with amazement.  Yet, the minute the drum machines came on 
70% of the audience was lost.  Many would just get up and leave. Such was 
the general reaction to "sequenced parts" and "canned" drum machine sounds.
Well, I explained this dilemma to the most knowledable Rick Walker, who 
suggested I stop using programmed drum sequences, and instead actually play 
the drum machine; bulding the drum loop from scratch for the audience to 
witness.  Hey, this worked, sort of.  It seems most audience NEED the 
entertainment factor of watching a musician do his/her thing....and 
programming a drum machine in real timne did fill that void.  Of course, to 
some watching someone hunker over a tiny SR16 is not too terribly 
entertaining...something like a Kat or Octapad would very useful in that 
sort of setup.
The other problem was the sounds which most drum machines have. This dilemma 
had been addressed on this thread (flanger, phasing,EQ etc) but one thing I 
found was to use two drum machines.  One programmed with the "beats" and one 
with several "common feels" which could just percussive voices, or detuned 
drum sounds which could be triggered, mixed, and sync'd via midi.  This 
proved to give a very 3 dimensional sound to the sometimes static drum 
machine loops.  If you run to a mixer, try running the drums in stereo and 
inverting the phase on one side...this works some subtle magic also.
Yet..to wrap this up, I have since given up the drum machines, and now (for 
the past year of so) have been exploring playing percussive parts on my bass 
(a semi-acoustic Godin) via string mutes, dampening, rapping sections of the 
body or neck...and of course the infamous aligator clips. I am able to very 
deep, rich and polyrhythmical parts...even  killing off one sewction and 
rebuilding.  Now, hearing about LoopIV makes this technique and an EDP so 
promising!!!(the influence of Mr. LaFosse!!)
If I need "drum sounds" I use Fruity Loops and burn  parts to a CD and then 
loop a section of that to initiate a real-time looping performance (usually 
I prefer using the bass, tho).
One last thing.....I have also recently switched my processing around now 
favoring putting fx (which is now pretty much down to an M-One and 
parametric eq) AFTER my looper; insuch processing the loops instead of 
looping the fx.  Using timed delays, and detuned delays, this creates some 
very interesting polyrhytms whic can be "undone" by simply switching back to 
the original fx program (or to an different one).  Just curious about how 
many of you are setting up fx and loop mangling....
sorry about the length....
Max



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

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Stuart Wyatt wrote:

>
> I think my point earlier was just due to my frustration that I might be
> stuck permanently with OS1.1 - Its buggy, could have so many options,
> more midi implementation etc. etc.

Buggy?  I was one of the 1.1 beta testers, and I can pretty much say that
there are very few bugs in the current Repeater OS.  My Repeater is very,
very stable.  I think I got it to crash once, but I was doing something
odd... I forget what...

More MIDI implementation?  Seems pretty robust to me.  Is there a function
you can't control via MIDI?

I do agree that the Repeater would be a more useful box if it could end a
loop in overdub.  I hope Electrix lives to make that a feature in a future
OS.  While they're at it, I'd love to be able to pre determine a loop
length in measures.  Have it automatically drop out of record after 4 or 8
measures.  I hate having to think about closing the loop at the right time
when synched to a MIDI clock.

Also, I'm again hearing about the delay of the dry signal pass through the
Repeater.  If there is a latency, it must be very tiny.  I can not hear
it.  I've hooked it up to an effects send, where it should have been
apparent, and did not notice any delay.  Does anyone else here this delay?

Mark

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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 17:40:51 -0400
From: David Beardsley <db@biink.com>
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----- Original Message -----
From: "SRice" <srice44@yahoo.com>

> I don't think you can change the mix, or the feedback
> within the Boss.  So, while there is no limit to the number of
> overdubs, each time the older material gets a little
> weaker.  With only a few dubs this is not too significant,
> but you can make this a 'feature' by slowing evolving
> your loop into something very different as the original
> material fades out.

It doesn't fade out that quick. One time I as I was
doing - maybe - hundreds of overdubs on a loop,
it just kept getting louder and louder. The people
in front on me went from a quiet conversation
to almost shouting as each other. ;)

So I'd turn everything down and after a few minutes,
folks are back to the shouting level. I'd rather use
this technique with the Line6 dl4, at least I can predict what's going to
happen!

* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 18:35:15 -0700
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Steve, this is beautiful!  I intended to control the piece by the 
volume of each of the singer's entries anyway (ie: I'll have 
indications of dynamics and distance from the mic in the music), so 
the gradual "diminuendo" of the the previous loop can be, as you say, 
a feature of the piece.

I'm officially a looper.  thanks!!!  W.L.


>Hey, this is pretty on-topic for loopers-delight.  ;)
>
>Yes, the RC-20 functions as you describe.  It
>continues to play the loop as new dubs are added.
>The dry signal is also passed through.  The wet/dry
>mix is usually controlled via a mixer, with the looper
>on a send/return path.  It is possible to use the
>RC-20 by itself, ie plug the source and PA into it
>directly, although I have never used it that way.
>(by coincidence I'm exploring that topic, but more later.)
>
>I don't think you can change the mix, or the feedback
>within the Boss.  So, while there is no limit to the number of
>overdubs, each time the older material gets a little
>weaker.

sorta like decay;)

>  With only a few dubs this is not too significant,
>but you can make this a 'feature' by slowing evolving
>your loop into something very different as the original
>material fades out.
>
>Yours in rhythm,
>Steve

-- 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 12 17:44:01 2002
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> IAs a matter of fact, if any one is interested in this very off topic chain,
> maybe I could show you guys some great tricks for
> programming drum machines in the most simple and effective ways for your
> music.   Just let me know if anyone is interested and I"ll post these tricks
> when I have time.

Here's one of my tips:

DYNAMICS!  Drop the drum track out, or bring it to a high hat only for a few
measures every now and then.  Drive that dynamic range!  There's noting, in my
opinion, worse than hearing the same bass, snare, high hat pattern going for
more than 4 measures.  I say never repeat the same pattern more than twice,even
it it's just a slight change.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 12 17:44:52 2002
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Subject: Re: Repeater vs EDP
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 22:48:30 +0200
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I recently asked Lisa at Electrixpro if Repater has hardware limitations to
go to overdub from a 2nd hit of record (widely discussed but never clearly
replied).
she said that the current hardware would admit this feature, but she cannot
say when they'll be developing next sw release.
she said electrix "is very busy at the moment", could it be a good sign ?
hope so.
luca
------------------------------
www.unguitar.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Sottilaro" <sine@zerocrossing.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 11:27 PM
Subject: Re: Repeater vs EDP


> Stuart Wyatt wrote:
>
> >
> > I think my point earlier was just due to my frustration that I might be
> > stuck permanently with OS1.1 - Its buggy, could have so many options,
> > more midi implementation etc. etc.
>
> Buggy?  I was one of the 1.1 beta testers, and I can pretty much say that
> there are very few bugs in the current Repeater OS.  My Repeater is very,
> very stable.  I think I got it to crash once, but I was doing something
> odd... I forget what...
>
> More MIDI implementation?  Seems pretty robust to me.  Is there a function
> you can't control via MIDI?
>
> I do agree that the Repeater would be a more useful box if it could end a
> loop in overdub.  I hope Electrix lives to make that a feature in a future
> OS.  While they're at it, I'd love to be able to pre determine a loop
> length in measures.  Have it automatically drop out of record after 4 or 8
> measures.  I hate having to think about closing the loop at the right time
> when synched to a MIDI clock.
>
> Also, I'm again hearing about the delay of the dry signal pass through the
> Repeater.  If there is a latency, it must be very tiny.  I can not hear
> it.  I've hooked it up to an effects send, where it should have been
> apparent, and did not notice any delay.  Does anyone else here this delay?
>
> Mark
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 12 17:45:42 2002
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I hear the delay- I was bummed when I first plugged it in-

Couple of bugs in 1.1 - copy a loop onto itself on the CFC and it crashes,
the track meters stop responding sometimes for no apparent reason requiring
reboot too-

Other than that there are quite a few operational wishes I have for it- I
hope they are successful and can live long and prosper.

c

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Sottilaro" <sine@zerocrossing.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 2:27 PM
Subject: Re: Repeater vs EDP


> Stuart Wyatt wrote:
>
> >
> > I think my point earlier was just due to my frustration that I might be
> > stuck permanently with OS1.1 - Its buggy, could have so many options,
> > more midi implementation etc. etc.
>
> Buggy?  I was one of the 1.1 beta testers, and I can pretty much say that
> there are very few bugs in the current Repeater OS.  My Repeater is very,
> very stable.  I think I got it to crash once, but I was doing something
> odd... I forget what...
>
> More MIDI implementation?  Seems pretty robust to me.  Is there a function
> you can't control via MIDI?
>
> I do agree that the Repeater would be a more useful box if it could end a
> loop in overdub.  I hope Electrix lives to make that a feature in a future
> OS.  While they're at it, I'd love to be able to pre determine a loop
> length in measures.  Have it automatically drop out of record after 4 or 8
> measures.  I hate having to think about closing the loop at the right time
> when synched to a MIDI clock.
>
> Also, I'm again hearing about the delay of the dry signal pass through the
> Repeater.  If there is a latency, it must be very tiny.  I can not hear
> it.  I've hooked it up to an effects send, where it should have been
> apparent, and did not notice any delay.  Does anyone else here this delay?
>
> Mark
>
>
>


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 12 17:50:29 2002
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Subject: Re: Repeater vs EDP
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> Mark Sottilaro wrote:
>
> More MIDI implementation?  Seems pretty robust to me.  Is there a
> function you can't control via MIDI?

"Copy loop".

Best wishes

Per Boysen
________________
http://loopboy.tk
www.boysen.se
www.upsweden.com
www.fuzz.se


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 12 17:53:06 2002
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On Wednesday, June 12, 2002, at 11:27 PM, Mark Sottilaro wrote:

> Buggy?  I was one of the 1.1 beta testers, and I can pretty much say 
> that
> there are very few bugs in the current Repeater OS.  My Repeater is 
> very,
> very stable.  I think I got it to crash once, but I was doing something
> odd... I forget what...

Mine has not crashed, and its more limited rather than buggy. The main 
bug I still get is attack sounds when I try to record drones on a 
pre-recorded empty loop. Its the same when I try the same drones using 
vocals.

> More MIDI implementation?  Seems pretty robust to me.  Is there a 
> function
> you can't control via MIDI?

Yes - being able to control the Repeater in exactly the same way by 
assigning the front panel buttons to the Midi footpedals/switches. A few 
simple examples: Try erasing 3 tracks of a loop whilst the loop is 
playing. Try to copy a loop via Midi. Try to alter the pitch/pan of 
multiple tracks using a single controller.... in other words, you cannot 
emulate the full front panel control of the repeater via midi. Its late 
and I'm tired, but am I making sense?

Its also a shame that it has CC codes higher than 96, but that is a 
fault of Roland and its FC200, not Electrix.

I use this box live, and have to do everything hands free (the violin 
takes up both of those). There are times when I love this box, and times 
when I curse it :)

> I do agree that the Repeater would be a more useful box if it could 
> end a
> loop in overdub.  I hope Electrix lives to make that a feature in a 
> future
> OS.  While they're at it, I'd love to be able to pre determine a loop
> length in measures.  Have it automatically drop out of record after 4 
> or 8
> measures.  I hate having to think about closing the loop at the right 
> time
> when synched to a MIDI clock.

Also, why not be able to have a 4 beat newly recorded track play along 
to a 16 beat pre-recorded track on the same loop? The Repeater can 
already do this with 'virtual loops'  (or whatever its called - their 
memory saving system), so it has the potential. Just imagine finishing 
one piece at 128 beat loops, and merging it with a simple 4 beat 
loop.... then moving the new 4 beat to a new track, then switching to 
that new track....

Etc. etc.


> Does anyone else here this delay?

I've not noticed any latency....

--
Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
http://www.solostring.com
stuart@solostring.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 12 18:08:13 2002
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>   While they're at it, I'd love to be able to pre determine a loop
> length in measures.  Have it automatically drop out of record after 4 or 8
> measures.  
> Mark
> 
mark you describe the very beauty of my precious and precocious <lexicon pcm
42> which is an extension of my guitar-you have to detirmine the loop length
beforehand,a  parameter that encourages/forces being creative w/in a set
standard.
s 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 12 18:26:58 2002
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Subject: Re: OT: Drum machines vs. Human beings
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Sage advice.
c

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Sottilaro" <sine@zerocrossing.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 2:40 PM
Subject: Re: OT: Drum machines vs. Human beings


> > IAs a matter of fact, if any one is interested in this very off topic
chain,
> > maybe I could show you guys some great tricks for
> > programming drum machines in the most simple and effective ways for your
> > music.   Just let me know if anyone is interested and I"ll post these
tricks
> > when I have time.
>
> Here's one of my tips:
>
> DYNAMICS!  Drop the drum track out, or bring it to a high hat only for a
few
> measures every now and then.  Drive that dynamic range!  There's noting,
in my
> opinion, worse than hearing the same bass, snare, high hat pattern going
for
> more than 4 measures.  I say never repeat the same pattern more than
twice,even
> it it's just a slight change.
>
>


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 12 18:42:11 2002
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Subject: excellent deal
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went to the local GUITAR CENTER today just to look at cases to carry my boxes 
around in.....the salesman took me over to several cases, one being the size 
of a smaller suit-case, into which i want to put my: mackie 1202 vlz, digi 
spacepedal, alesis Q2, alesis air synth and air fx and my rang, and a couple 
odds and ends.....well, i think all this will fit into this case and then 
some so i ask the fellow the cost.....$299 but on sale due to discontinuation 
for only $43.....both sales guys were in the state of shock as was i!.....if 
you are looking for cases, it might be worth a stop in.....sorry if this 
seems spammy sammy im just tryin to save some scoot for your dear ol 
mammy.....michael
n.p. CT-PROJECT "BLUEZETTE".....ouch!.....they dont make them like that 
anymore.....tis da shame!

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 12 18:46:48 2002
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Now now, Mr. Wyatt, self-flagellation is not necessary.  

Ye said,

> I think my point earlier was just due to my frustration that I might be
> stuck permanently with OS1.1 - Its buggy, could have so many options,
> more midi implementation etc. etc. 

Indeed, if there were ANY company that was both willing and able to put
serious money and muscle behind a deep, dedicated hardware looper,
things would be very different.  One of the first things a dedicated
loopist has to learn to live with is the frequent uncertainty of just
how long-term of a committment a parent company might give to supporting
the product in the marketplace.  It was that way with the JamMan, it has
sporadically been that way with the EDP, and it now seems to be that way
with the Repeater...

> I have found it highly limited at
> times.

I personally REALLY LIKE limits.  I really dig the fact that there are
some things the EDP not only can't do, but never even tried to do in the
first place.  It's got a fairly strict and specific focus, which I find
increasingly attractive as time goes on: it helps me focus specifically
on features that I know I want to deal with.

> Given time, testings etc. etc. I really think that the Repeater
> can be a mind blowing gadget. 

I personally think it already IS a mind blower.  Can you think of any
other hardware unit on the market that can do all the things it does
with a US street price of under $600?  

> I know the hardware exists inside the box,
> and it is just up to the software to route/process audio. [/rant]

Ah, but actually getting the software to do the stuff is the tricky
part.  Matthias Grob had to pull some seriously long months and years
(literally) to get LoopIV to do what it does with the processor inside
the EDP, which Matthias described as being the equivalent of a Mac Plus.
 It was no mean feat at all, and it was done almost entirely as a labor
of love for several years.

There are lots of cool things the Repeater does that no other looper
can.  If I was going to work with one, I think the first thing I'd do
would be to start delving into the things that are largely unique to
that unit itself - timestretching in particular is an intriguing
proposition to me.  

At the risk of sounding like an idealistic optimist, my advice would be
to look at the Repeater in terms of what it CAN do, as opposed to what
it CAN'T do.  That doesn't mean people shouldn't push for additional
features, or relay any frustrations with the current OS to the
designers.  What it means, to me, is that it's a different instrument
with a unique feature set.  If there's a lesson to be learned from the
EDP in that regard, I'd say that it's important to explore the features
that are already in a unit, just as much as asking for new features that
aren't in there yet.

NO looper can do everything, and if there was one that COULD, I think
it'd be awfully difficult to decide what to do with it in the first
place.  :)

> To hear how passionate people are about this box 
> really highlights my ignorance in the unit, 
> and feeling embarrassed for saying what I did.

Well, I spent the first two years of this list highlighting my own
ignorance about countless things, so I'm well ahead of you in the
self-induced public embarassment department.  ;)

Take care,

--Andre LaFosse
http://www.altruistmusic.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 12 18:51:52 2002
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Congratulations on your new calling!  You will soon
discover the horrible addiction of looping.

A note on the "fading out" and David's comment:

What he descibes is very different from what I have
heard, but I think he has much more experience here
that I do.  I notice it after 5-6 dubs, and at maybe
10 the first dub is pretty much background.  The
important thing to realize though is that you do not
have any control of the feedback, which is the strength
of the older material compared to the new overdub.

One lesson I learned with my looper is that my orignal
ideas of what I would do with it changed significantly
after I actually started using it.  (Looping is like
life, grasshopper)

Fortunately most music suppliers have a liberal
return policy so if the RC-20 doesn't work out
you can send it back.

Yours in rhythm,
Steven

--------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 18:35:15 -0700

   From: "W. L. Altman" <waltman@mta.ca>

     To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com

Subject: RE: Boss RC-20


Steve, this is beautiful!  I intended to control the piece by
the
volume of each of the singer's entries anyway (ie: I'll have
indications of dynamics and distance from the mic in the
music), so
the gradual "diminuendo" of the the previous loop can be, as
you say,
a feature of the piece.

I'm officially a looper.  thanks!!!  W.L.





__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

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Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 00:54:08 +0200
From: "David Kuckhermann" <david.kuck@web.de>
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Subject: Re: Pitch-shifting percussion sounds in realtime...
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Hi again!

For me very important are 3 things. The quality of the pitchshifting should be ok (the repeater has not highest quality but for my purpose its ok), There should be no delay of the pitch-shifted signal (very important since I want to use it for rhythms) and what I think makes the thing quite difficult, the ability to changes to pitch in realtime via midi. Is this possible with the eventide units (older or newer ones)?
>
>Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 13:33:04 +0100
>From: "Jimmy Fowler" <jimfowler@prodigy.net>
>To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
>Subject: Re: Pitch-shifting percussion sounds in realtime...
>Message-ID: <002a01c2120d$4dd9a820$02f8c440@g0wn7>
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>
>i didn't mean that you should buy a pair of orvilles ; ) but i know those
>units are generally muy expensivo.  some of the older units can be had for a
>reasonable sum on ebay and you could dedicate the entire unit to
>pitchshifting and variants thereof.
>
>just an idea.  i'm sure there are plenty of other machines that could fit
>the bill, but i'm not aware of them.
>
>-jim


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Ah ha!  You've found the secret of Music Retail: Accessories.  They make very
little on instruments and gear, but they KILL on accessories.  I remember
selling Turntable cartridges for $200 that we'd pay like $15 for.

Nemoguitt@aol.com wrote:

> went to the local GUITAR CENTER today just to look at cases to carry my boxes
> around in.....the salesman took me over to several cases, one being the size
> of a smaller suit-case, into which i want to put my: mackie 1202 vlz, digi
> spacepedal, alesis Q2, alesis air synth and air fx and my rang, and a couple
> odds and ends.....well, i think all this will fit into this case and then
> some so i ask the fellow the cost.....$299 but on sale due to discontinuation
> for only $43.....both sales guys were in the state of shock as was i!.....if
> you are looking for cases, it might be worth a stop in.....sorry if this
> seems spammy sammy im just tryin to save some scoot for your dear ol
> mammy.....michael
> n.p. CT-PROJECT "BLUEZETTE".....ouch!.....they dont make them like that
> anymore.....tis da shame!

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In a message dated 6/12/02 7:13:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
sine@zerocrossing.net writes:


> You've found the secret of Music Retail: Accessories

then perhaps i paid a "just" price?.....and the saleman kept saying "look 
into my eyes", i should never go out on my own!.....michael

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 6/12/02 7:13:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sine@zerocrossing.net writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">You've found the secret of Music Retail: Accessories</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
then perhaps i paid a "just" price?.....and the saleman kept saying "look into my eyes", i should never go out on my own!.....michael</FONT></HTML>

--part1_5b.292c60ff.2a393191_boundary--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 12 19:54:31 2002
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From: "matt davignon" <mattdavignon@hotmail.com>
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Subject: (SF) seeking found-object musicians
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 16:52:18 -0700
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I'm seeking 5 or 6 found-object musicians (or groups) for an experimental 
show I'd like to put on in late summer or early fall.

The musicians will create music entirely from objects, toys and trinkets 
brought in by the audience. Artists are allowed and encouraged to bring in 
microphones, looping devices, effects, and samplers (including laptops). I 
believe a PA will be provided by the venue.

Of course, you must be in or able to make it to the San Francisco Bay Area. 
I want to make a big deal of this show, so I'm going to book it on a friday 
or saturday night. Set times will be about 20 minutes each.

Variety is encouraged.

Let me know if you're interested: mattdavignon@hotmail.com

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

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Sylvan Music in Santa Cruz has a Filter Queen and an EQ Killer. The EQ
Killer was priced at something like $75, I think. I mulled the question of
whether I could use a second one for a while before my three-year-old pulled
me out of the store.

(The EQ Killer is great to throw on after a looper to cut out various
frequency bands.)

Mark

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max valentino wrote:

> One last thing.....I have also recently switched my processing around now
> favoring putting fx (which is now pretty much down to an M-One and
> parametric eq) AFTER my looper; insuch processing the loops instead of
> looping the fx.  Using timed delays, and detuned delays, this creates some
> very interesting polyrhytms whic can be "undone" by simply switching back to
> the original fx program (or to an different one).  Just curious about how
> many of you are setting up fx and loop mangling....
> sorry about the length....
> Max

This is exactly what I've been doing with the Repeater and the Lexicon MPX1.
It's in the Repeater effects loop, usually set to be on the loop, instead of
the input.  This means what I play is dry, until it hits the first iteration of
the loop.  Very nice.  The MPX1 has an A/B button similar to the Vortex, where
I set the A to Mix=0% and the B=100%.  Then I set the rate of change to "50" (I
have no idea what this coorasponds to, but it gives a nice gradule change from
dry to wet and back again)

One of my favorite patches is a factory preset that initates a looped delay
based on midi clock.  When you hit the a/b button, it grabs a smaller chunk of
my Repeater loop.  Picking weird times to hit the button can give really
intereseting results, and you can go back to your loop by hitting the a/b
again.

The MPX1 has been discontinued, so they're blowing them out for $425.  Not bad
for a box that sold for $700

Mark

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For sale, all in good condition,
Lexicon Jamman w/ 32 sec. chipset,  manual - $350.00
Digitech 7.6 second Time Machine - $150.00
Roland GR-30 Guitar Synth w/ GK-2 - $400.00 
e-mail me off list for further details.

Jeff Duke
echo1717@bellsouth.net


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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rick Walker/Loop.pooL" 
Subject: OT: Drum machines vs. Human beings


this is why I'm on loopers delight...
jon


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Subject: Re: Pitch-shifting percussion sounds in realtime...
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 20:40:11 +0100
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i'm 99% sure it's do-able on the new units if you have the right
controller...just about anything can be midi controlled on the newer units.

the older ones...hmmm....

let me ask italo, who i thought was on this list, and i'll get back.

-jim


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Hey Stuart,

Are you a member of PRS or SACEM?  Make sure both film producers issue a cue 
sheet to the proper performing rights org. and of course make sure you 
register your compositions with your p.r.o.   Could be some back-end money 
for you...ya never know.  Just a little advice from a performing rights org 
guy.  Congrats on the work.

cheers,  Terry
www.anomalousdisturbances.com



>From: Stuart Wyatt <stuart@solostring.com>
>Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>Subject: Film score update
>Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 11:56:23 +0200
>
>Hey :)
>
>It looks as though I've won a couple of contracts! I pimped myself a
>little bit on a couple of forums, and got approached by a student film
>maker in the US who wants to use some of me recordings for the opening
>and closing credits for his short film. There is no money involved -
>just credits - but thats cool for me (and him).
>
>I was also approached by a French film maker who heard me play in Place
>des Vosges a couple of months back who wants me to produce a complete
>film score. Its actually going to be paid work (although nothing
>amazing). I should know more on Friday when we meet.
>
>Anyway, thanks again for all your suggestions from my earlier post!
>--
>Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
>http://www.solostring.com
>stuart@solostring.com
>




_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 12 22:44:44 2002
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terry said to stuart:

>Are you a member of PRS or SACEM?  Make sure both film producers issue
>a cue 
>sheet to the proper performing rights org. and of course make sure you
>register your compositions with your p.r.o.   Could be some back-end money
>for you...ya never know.  Just a little advice from a performing rights
>org guy.  
i concur: great advice, not to be ignored!
best,
dt / splattercell

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 12 22:56:12 2002
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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 22:54:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: Elio DeLuca <elio@telepathyrecords.com>
Subject: Boston area gig spam - Bloomsday 2002 celebrating James Joyce's
 Ulysses @ McIntyre & Moore in Davis Square, Somerville
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Hi, all. I'll be looping heavily at this gig with my Line 6 DL4, and all
other loopers (or any musicians) who can attend are welcome to get up and
perform. Hope to see you there!

------------------------------------------------------------------

Bloomsday 2002
An improvisational celebration of James Joyce's "Ulysses"
featuring readings & performances

presented by McIntyre & Moore Booksellers
in association with a.i.m. and Telepathy Records

Sunday, June 16th, 7:30 pm

Performances by Elio DeLuca, Michael Plunkett, and a random ensemble of
assorted guests

McIntyre & Moore Booksellers
mcintyreandmoore.com
255 Elm St. Davis Square
Somerville, MA
(617) 629-4840
on the Red Line

Free and open to all; light refreshments will be served

http://aim.telepathyrecords.com

Ninety-eight years ago this Sunday, James Joyce declared his love for the
woman who would be his wife, muse, and classic symbol of Irish beauty,
Nora Barnacle. The inspiration of June 16th, 1904 would be reflected in
his masterwork "Ulysses," as the day on which Joyce would unfold the
ultimate modernist epic: an experimental comic saga in his own fluid,
river-of-consciousness-style prose. Joyce's transcendence of the utter
normality of urban life in Dublin would be hailed by some as the greatest
achievement in the English language and reviled by others as its most
audacious perversion.

The day of "Ulysses," known in the Joyce legacy as "Bloomsday," will be
celebrated this year at McIntyre & Moore Booksellers in Davis Square in an
evening of readings from the work, accompanied by improvised music from a
variety of local artists. The focus will be on the spontaneity and
lyricism of Joyce's writing in "Ulysses," reflected by a random series of
excerpts from the work. The texts will be echoed, supported, and
reinforced by music improvised in reaction to the mood, subject, and
spirit of the pieces. The ensemble will be organized by attendance and
coincidence, led by Elio DeLuca (two-string guitar, loops), and featuring
drummer/composer/Joyce scholar Michael Plunkett. The second portion of the
evening will feature Plunkett's reading of the tenth episode of "Ulysses,"
with Pat Donaher (clarinets), Brendon Wood (electric guitar), and himself
on percussion, narration, and tapes.


James Joyce, Elio DeLuca, and Michael Plunkett are all of Irish heritage,
born under the sign of Pisces.


Elio DeLuca is a musician and composer in far too many styles, performing
acoustic & electric group improvisations with his band, the Module, solo
creations for ambient guitar under his own name, and harsh noise under the
moniker "dosage". Formerly an English major at Tufts University, he has
long equated the depth, freedom, and fluidity of Joyce's writing with the
effortless mastery an improvising musician strives to achieve. DeLuca is
the founder of both the Boston independent label Telepathy Records, and
the freeform artists' collaborative a.i.m. (advanced idea mechanics),
dedicated to promoting the live performances of those engaging in
marginalized art forms. Under the a.i.m. banner, DeLuca produced "the
sketchpad," a new music series at the Zeitgeist Gallery in Cambridge this
year, until the space was consumed by fire in April. a.i.m. is bringing
the postponed events to alternate venues, as well as continuing to attempt
to raise money for the resurrection of the Zeitgeist Gallery. More
information is available at http://aim.telepathyrecords.com


Michael Plunkett first read a Joyce story in 1989. The stories scared,
fascinated, and confused him; but he kept reading because of their bizarre
economy of language and dissonant range of voices. They also reminded him
of the music he was listening to (Mr. Bungle/Miles Davis) because they
both seemed to contain indeterminate endings in which all parts were left
strangely unresolved. He first read Ulysses in 1996 and studied it with
Declan Kiberd at University College Dublin. In 1996 he studied the book
again with Michael Begnal at Penn State. Finally, in the fall of 2001 he
studied and wrote a paper on the book with Marjorie Howes at Boston
College. In that time he has also worked actively as a creative and
improvising musician, in Boston and New York City. More information on his
work with tape and live performance is available at
http://www.redlabelled.com


More information about a.i.m. and other Telepathy activities, including
upcoming new releases from No Sale Value, Twisted Hoedown, and Elio
DeLuca, can be found at:

        http://www.telepathyrecords.com


Peace!

+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
 Telepathy Records                                         (617) 504-8278
 P.O. Box 230484                                info@telepathyrecords.com
 Boston, MA 02123                                www.telepathyrecords.com

   To be added to our mailing list write to <info@telepathyrecords.com>
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 12 23:12:57 2002
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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 23:10:36 -0400
From: Bill Cummings <billcumm@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Lexi MPX1
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Mark,
who's blowing them out for that price? Also, have you checked out the
Lexicon MPXR1 MIDI Remote Controller? they look like they were made for each
other

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Sottilaro" <sine@zerocrossing.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: OT: Drum machines vs. Human beings


> max valentino wrote:
>
> > One last thing.....I have also recently switched my processing around
now
> > favoring putting fx (which is now pretty much down to an M-One and
> > parametric eq) AFTER my looper; insuch processing the loops instead of
> > looping the fx.  Using timed delays, and detuned delays, this creates
some
> > very interesting polyrhytms whic can be "undone" by simply switching
back to
> > the original fx program (or to an different one).  Just curious about
how
> > many of you are setting up fx and loop mangling....
> > sorry about the length....
> > Max
>
> This is exactly what I've been doing with the Repeater and the Lexicon
MPX1.
> It's in the Repeater effects loop, usually set to be on the loop, instead
of
> the input.  This means what I play is dry, until it hits the first
iteration of
> the loop.  Very nice.  The MPX1 has an A/B button similar to the Vortex,
where
> I set the A to Mix=0% and the B=100%.  Then I set the rate of change to
"50" (I
> have no idea what this coorasponds to, but it gives a nice gradule change
from
> dry to wet and back again)
>
> One of my favorite patches is a factory preset that initates a looped
delay
> based on midi clock.  When you hit the a/b button, it grabs a smaller
chunk of
> my Repeater loop.  Picking weird times to hit the button can give really
> intereseting results, and you can go back to your loop by hitting the a/b
> again.
>
> The MPX1 has been discontinued, so they're blowing them out for $425.  Not
bad
> for a box that sold for $700
>
> Mark
>
>


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 12 23:58:31 2002
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From: armatronix <armatronix@charter.net>
Subject: Re: video from loopstock?
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I only made videos for each performer of their individual 
performances.  Many of these captured only a portion their performance, and 
the sound quality is relatively poor.  Aside from that, I would need to get 
a DVD burner and authoring software (and learn how to use them) to be able 
to distribute it.

These things may happen in the future, but for now I'm trying to 
concentrate on finally recording some of my music.  If anybody has the 
time, energy, and resources to compile such a video and make it available, 
I would be more than willing to hand over the DV tapes (with the blessings 
of the performers, of course).

-Hans Lindauer


At 09:28 12/06/2002, you wrote:

>Hi, guys!
>
>Is this video from loopstock availablke to buy somewhere? Since here in 
>europe there is not really a "looping community" yet (hopefully it won´t 
>take too long), I would very much like to see it to see how you guys over 
>the ocean use the things.Probably I could get a lot of inspiration and 
>learn many things...
>
>
> >Mark Hamburg wrote:
> >Note that my original phrasing and the phrasing for this thread was/is "pay
> >attention" not "watch". I don't really care whether people watch me.
> >Watching the video from Loopstock confirmed for me that I pretty much
> >


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 13 00:02:37 2002
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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 21:03:38 -0700
Subject: Re: Repeater vs EDP 
From: Mark Hamburg <mark_hamburg@baymoon.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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Full open source for the Repeater seems unlikely since it's got IVL's pitch
shifting algorithms in it.

Short of that, though, it would be really cool if they would release the
specs that one needs to write an OS for it. The raw hardware seems like it
has a number of useful features.

Mark

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 13 00:44:30 2002
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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 21:45:17 -0700
Subject: Re: Adding character to drum machines...
From: Mark Hamburg <mark_hamburg@baymoon.com>
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For that matter, even though I mostly do the playing rather than running the
sequencer on it, I pretty much always put my Handsonic through a Mo-FX. I'm
primarily using the overdrive and the sync'd delays on the high frequencies.

Mark

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 13 00:59:17 2002
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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 22:00:15 -0700
Subject: Re: video from loopstock?
From: Mark Hamburg <mark_hamburg@baymoon.com>
To: "Looper's Delight" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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Hans possesses the videos and has distributed individual performers bits to
those same performers. If I failed to say thank you, Hans, let me say it
now. Thank you.

The recording is incomplete -- e.g., only about 10 minutes of my set got
captured and I think Hans has indicated that there were other gaps -- but
its better than nothing. Hans had plenty of other things to worry about
besides running a video camera.

No one has said anything one way or another about any broader distribution.
I was sufficiently relieved on seeing it that I hadn't embarrassed myself
that I wouldn't block distribution.

Mark

on 6/12/02 9:28 AM, David Kuckhermann at david.kuck@web.de wrote:

> 
> Hi, guys!
> 
> Is this video from loopstock availablke to buy somewhere? Since here in europe
> there is not really a "looping community" yet (hopefully it won?t take too
> long), I would very much like to see it to see how you guys over the ocean use
> the things.Probably I could get a lot of inspiration and learn many things...
> 
> 
>> Mark Hamburg wrote:
>> Note that my original phrasing and the phrasing for this thread was/is "pay
>> attention" not "watch". I don't really care whether people watch me.
>> Watching the video from Loopstock confirmed for me that I pretty much
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 13 01:42:09 2002
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Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 01:43:35 -0400
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Subject: Re: Boss RC-20
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "SRice" <srice44@yahoo.com>


> A note on the "fading out" and David's comment:
> 
> What he descibes is very different from what I have
> heard, but I think he has much more experience here
> that I do.  I notice it after 5-6 dubs, and at maybe
> 10 the first dub is pretty much background.  The
> important thing to realize though is that you do not
> have any control of the feedback, which is the strength
> of the older material compared to the new overdub.

I noticed a long time ago that the longer the loop time on the Line6 
(28 seconds) the longer it takes to fade away. I think I was
using a loop on the RC-20 that was 1-3 min. long (I was
timing the initial blank loops with a watch).


* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 13 04:19:58 2002
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Subject: Re: Repeater vs EDP (what I like about the Repeater)
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On Thursday, June 13, 2002, at 12:42 AM, Andre LaFosse wrote:

>  timestretching in particular is an intriguing
> proposition to me.

(BTW - your points were really good. Why do I feel like I'm getting a 
mature slap in the face at times :)

The timestretching feature is incredible. Using another looper to take 
over the rhythmic part of the piece, try switching the BPM down to one. 
Route the looper through some sort of effects unit - just to fill out 
the noise as it becomes a little low quality at this speed... The 
harmonics are amazing! Very beautiful ambient, morphing drones. Its the 
same with vocals....

The pitch shift feature is great, and would be better if I could find a 
bass organ midi floorboard to operate it with. Being able to change the 
key of the loops whilst in 'bounce' mode is pretty inspiring. However, 
intervals greater than a 5th do degrade. If you want a true octave 
sound, go through an effects box.

My gripes with the Midi implementation might be a little biased. I agree 
that with the correct hardware (intelligent Midi controllers and lots of 
pedals), you could have an amazing level of control - however, I'm on a 
limited budget and currently only have access to an FC200. Its 
frustrating that I can only use 50% of the features hands-free :(

The loop extending feature is the reason why I purchased a Repeater. 
Basically, my rhythm sucks (it is non-existent), so a way to get around 
this is to record a short loop with a single attack, and extend that to 
16/32/64/128/256 beats - a kind of organic metronome.
And also, being able to mix four tracks live is incredible.... The unit 
has many more features/tricks that I am only just beginning to stumble 
upon.

I *DO* love my Repeater.... :) and yes, I'm too much of a moaning 
perfectionist :)

--
Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
http://www.solostring.com
stuart@solostring.com

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Subject: Re: Pitch-shifting percussion sounds & Latency rant
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> There should be no delay of the pitch-shifted signal (very important since 
I 
> want to use it for rhythms) 

Unfortunately delay is always present to some extent when pitch shifting.
Pitch shifting works by dividing the sound into chunks, and playing back 
those 
chunks at a different speed.
There's no way you could ever pitch shift up without a delay (imagine, 
you start playback the instant the sound comes into the device, 
...obviously you can't then replay at a higher speed, as you'd
run out of sound straight away)

Its theoretically possible to shift down with an inperceptable
delay, but there would have to be a way of recognising
incoming transients (=the start of the note) 
and using that to retrigger playback. 
( and this would only really work for percussion & plucked sounds)


As far as I know, no existing device works on that principle though.
(however, as the Repeater pitch shift works on recorded material,
rather than input, maybe it can compensate for the delay) 


As to latency in general, I note that it quite often goes
unnoticed, as people often claim that such and such a
device has "no noticeable latency".
Somehow the brain seems to compensate for 
the delay sometimes, I've even noticed that when changing
from a MIDI controller with significant delay, to one without, 
the notes felt like they were early.


andy butler



 


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> They were all done in Stutter mode,
>  using Insert=SUS to stretch sections of a loop within a single cycle (a
>  technique not mentioned in the manual, as it happens!) 

Well it's not in the manual 'cos no-one ever done it before!!!


....keep it up Andre 


andy 


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Subject: "Cute but Hungry" in Today's New York Times
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In the "Garden Q. & A." section of The New York Times, Thursday June 13, 2002, under the heading "Cute but Hungry" a concerned reader writes:

"My once-beautiful mugho pine was attacked last June by legions of loopers.  . . .  They clustered on the denuded branches and began rhythmically and synchronously undulating like the Wave at a ballgame.  I tried hosing them off and crushing them but could not keep up.  Finally, I guiltily massacred them . . .  Now I'm beginning to see them again.  Are there environmentally friendly remedies I can use?"

The columnist replies:

"The stand-up-and-sway behavior is defensive.  They are extremely gregarious, always eating together, and when one member of the group raises the alarm, they all join in to scare predators away."

************************************************************
Yep . . . that sounds like us, all right . . .  I'm just wondering if the author lives in Santa Cruz or San Luis Obispo . . .

Short-term solution:  Loop IV should keep them busy for the next few weeks!

James

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Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 10:14:27 -0700
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Now I'm suffering the slightest cognitive dissonance.  Is the decay 
curve of multi-dubs on the RC-20 a problem that cannot be dealt with 
via input/output levels?  If I can work with it then the extra 5 
minutes of loop are worth it.  But if the Line6 does a superior job, 
28 secs can be enough for me at this stage.

Ever in need of reassurance... W.L.

>From: "SRice" <srice44@yahoo.com>
>
>
>>  A note on the "fading out" and David's comment:
>>
>>  What he descibes is very different from what I have
>>  heard, but I think he has much more experience here
>>  that I do.  I notice it after 5-6 dubs, and at maybe
>>  10 the first dub is pretty much background.  The
>>  important thing to realize though is that you do not
>>  have any control of the feedback, which is the strength
>>  of the older material compared to the new overdub.
>
>I noticed a long time ago that the longer the loop time on the Line6
>(28 seconds) the longer it takes to fade away. I think I was
>using a loop on the RC-20 that was 1-3 min. long (I was
>timing the initial blank loops with a watch).
>
>
>* David Beardsley
>* http://biink.com
>* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley


-- 

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Subject: Re: Pitch-shifting percussion sounds & Latency rant
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> > There should be no delay of the pitch-shifted signal (very important
since I
> > want to use it for rhythms)
>
> Unfortunately delay is always present to some extent when pitch shifting.
> Pitch shifting works by dividing the sound into chunks, and playing back
> those
> chunks at a different speed.

Yes!  There will always be some amount of delay.

The pitch shifter that you describe is certainly one technique.  It's sort
of a granulation technique.

Another technique is to perform a live spectral analysis then do a
resynthesis on the result.  But between the two, you scale the frequency.
This also preserves the formant structure of the sound so you don't get the
"Mickey Mouse" effect.  On my Kyma system I observe about a 68 millisecond
delay with this technique.

The analysis/resynthesis technique also has other interesting properties.
For example, you don't have to use sine waves for resynthesis; you can pick
any kind of waveform.

Dennis Leas
-------------------
dennis@mdbs.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 13 14:21:36 2002
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Subject: Effects on the floor? ( was Re: Lexi MPX1)
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I saw mine for that price while picking up MIDI cables at Guitar Center, but I
bet any big music retailer would match that price.

My floor is officially full up.  I can't put another pedal on it.  I'm actually
toying with the idea of getting rid of my Digitech 2120, because with the
Control 1, it takes up a big chunk of floor space, as well as two rack spaces.
I know it get's a bad rap for some reason, but I actually really like that
box.  I think the key to getting a good sound out of it is not going into a
guitar amp afterwards, but into a pair of full range speakers, but I digress...

Is there something really hot that lives on the floor?  Something like the
Digitech GNX3?  Anyone have it here?  It seems to have nice looping
posibilites.  Korg AX100?  I love my (now dormant) AX30, but it needs a nice
preamp after it to sound beefy.

Mark Sottilaro

Bill Cummings wrote:

> Mark,
> who's blowing them out for that price? Also, have you checked out the
> Lexicon MPXR1 MIDI Remote Controller? they look like they were made for each
> other
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Sottilaro" <sine@zerocrossing.net>
> To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 8:23 PM
> Subject: Re: OT: Drum machines vs. Human beings
>
> > max valentino wrote:
> >
> > > One last thing.....I have also recently switched my processing around
> now
> > > favoring putting fx (which is now pretty much down to an M-One and
> > > parametric eq) AFTER my looper; insuch processing the loops instead of
> > > looping the fx.  Using timed delays, and detuned delays, this creates
> some
> > > very interesting polyrhytms whic can be "undone" by simply switching
> back to
> > > the original fx program (or to an different one).  Just curious about
> how
> > > many of you are setting up fx and loop mangling....
> > > sorry about the length....
> > > Max
> >
> > This is exactly what I've been doing with the Repeater and the Lexicon
> MPX1.
> > It's in the Repeater effects loop, usually set to be on the loop, instead
> of
> > the input.  This means what I play is dry, until it hits the first
> iteration of
> > the loop.  Very nice.  The MPX1 has an A/B button similar to the Vortex,
> where
> > I set the A to Mix=0% and the B=100%.  Then I set the rate of change to
> "50" (I
> > have no idea what this coorasponds to, but it gives a nice gradule change
> from
> > dry to wet and back again)
> >
> > One of my favorite patches is a factory preset that initates a looped
> delay
> > based on midi clock.  When you hit the a/b button, it grabs a smaller
> chunk of
> > my Repeater loop.  Picking weird times to hit the button can give really
> > intereseting results, and you can go back to your loop by hitting the a/b
> > again.
> >
> > The MPX1 has been discontinued, so they're blowing them out for $425.  Not
> bad
> > for a box that sold for $700
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >

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Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 11:25:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Greg House <ghunicycle@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Repeater vs EDP
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--- Andre LaFosse <altruist@earthlink.net> wrote:

> But to assume that the Repeater OS would "blow away" the very
> different
> (and incredibly deep) EDP OS is simply not an informed comment to
> make
> from someone like yourself, who I don't believe has ever even used an
> EDP in the first place.  

This is not really an unusual thing for someone who doesn't understand
programming and software to say. Hey, it's a simple matter of
programming. (SMOP)

To sales and marketing people, this often goes hand in hand with the
attitude that anything they don't understand must not take any time to
do. So, get that new software architecture finished up by next week,
ok?

Greg

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

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Subject: Re: Effects on the floor? ( was Re: Lexi MPX1)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 20:46:00 +0200
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If you like how your korg sounds I would tell you to try the AX1500. I just
tried it in a friend's music shop and I find its sounds and effects to be
really good. Another machine compared to the AX1000, too. To my hear at
least...
The thing I liked most of the unit was changing the delay times with the
tone knob way down and the feedback to the max. The result sounds really
analog to my hear. Similar to the sound I obtained with a very old analog
delay. I've tried to do the same with both my rack multifx units and
couldn't get even near this result (I tried it with a Boss VF-1, a Digitech
Valve FX and a Korg A1). No clicks or pops while turning (quickly) full down
and full up the time knob. Only sound swirls.
Loved this.
And the other fx are good too. Loved the tremolo and the chorus. Plus it has
some weird fx in it and a (not so good to be honest) whammy effect, too.

Peace
Luigi
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Sottilaro" <sine@zerocrossing.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 8:05 PM
Subject: Effects on the floor? ( was Re: Lexi MPX1)


> I saw mine for that price while picking up MIDI cables at Guitar Center,
but I
> bet any big music retailer would match that price.
>
> My floor is officially full up.  I can't put another pedal on it.  I'm
actually
> toying with the idea of getting rid of my Digitech 2120, because with the
> Control 1, it takes up a big chunk of floor space, as well as two rack
spaces.
> I know it get's a bad rap for some reason, but I actually really like that
> box.  I think the key to getting a good sound out of it is not going into
a
> guitar amp afterwards, but into a pair of full range speakers, but I
digress...
>
> Is there something really hot that lives on the floor?  Something like the
> Digitech GNX3?  Anyone have it here?  It seems to have nice looping
> posibilites.  Korg AX100?  I love my (now dormant) AX30, but it needs a
nice
> preamp after it to sound beefy.
>
> Mark Sottilaro
>
> Bill Cummings wrote:
>
> > Mark,
> > who's blowing them out for that price? Also, have you checked out the
> > Lexicon MPXR1 MIDI Remote Controller? they look like they were made for
each
> > other
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mark Sottilaro" <sine@zerocrossing.net>
> > To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 8:23 PM
> > Subject: Re: OT: Drum machines vs. Human beings
> >
> > > max valentino wrote:
> > >
> > > > One last thing.....I have also recently switched my processing
around
> > now
> > > > favoring putting fx (which is now pretty much down to an M-One and
> > > > parametric eq) AFTER my looper; insuch processing the loops instead
of
> > > > looping the fx.  Using timed delays, and detuned delays, this
creates
> > some
> > > > very interesting polyrhytms whic can be "undone" by simply switching
> > back to
> > > > the original fx program (or to an different one).  Just curious
about
> > how
> > > > many of you are setting up fx and loop mangling....
> > > > sorry about the length....
> > > > Max
> > >
> > > This is exactly what I've been doing with the Repeater and the Lexicon
> > MPX1.
> > > It's in the Repeater effects loop, usually set to be on the loop,
instead
> > of
> > > the input.  This means what I play is dry, until it hits the first
> > iteration of
> > > the loop.  Very nice.  The MPX1 has an A/B button similar to the
Vortex,
> > where
> > > I set the A to Mix=0% and the B=100%.  Then I set the rate of change
to
> > "50" (I
> > > have no idea what this coorasponds to, but it gives a nice gradule
change
> > from
> > > dry to wet and back again)
> > >
> > > One of my favorite patches is a factory preset that initates a looped
> > delay
> > > based on midi clock.  When you hit the a/b button, it grabs a smaller
> > chunk of
> > > my Repeater loop.  Picking weird times to hit the button can give
really
> > > intereseting results, and you can go back to your loop by hitting the
a/b
> > > again.
> > >
> > > The MPX1 has been discontinued, so they're blowing them out for $425.
Not
> > bad
> > > for a box that sold for $700
> > >
> > > Mark
> > >
> > >
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 13 15:09:21 2002
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From: Greg House <ghunicycle@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Repeater OS issues
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--- Stuart Wyatt <stuart@solostring.com> wrote:

> I think my point earlier was just due to my frustration that I might
> be 
> stuck permanently with OS1.1 - Its buggy, could have so many options,
> more midi implementation etc. etc. I have found it highly limited at 
> times. 

What are your complaints with it? I've been using mine for about 6
months now, haven't ever had a crash or experienced any abberant
behavior from it. Admittedly, I'm not a "power user" (no midi
controller, etc), but it's been stable and I've greatly enjoyed using
it.

> But now, more than anything, I want an EDP. To hear how passionate 
> people are about this box really highlights my ignorance in the unit,
> and feeling embarrassed for saying what I did. It might be because
> they are quite rare in Europe, and I have never met anyone who 
> actually has one.

I think loopers are rare in general. I've travelled in musical circles
for 15 years or more and I've never met anyone in person who had a
looper (other then the DL-4, and 99% of the people with those don't use
the looper mode).

The flexability of the EDP actually contributed to my decision to get a
Repeater instead. The were three main factors that influenced my
decision. 1) the EDP cost quite a bit more, 2) the Repeater provided
persistant storage (compact flash), and 3) it appeared that there was a
substantial learning curve associated with being able to use an EDP
effectively. 

The last one was a big deal because I didn't have a lot of free time
when I got this and I just wanted to play some music, not spend a long
time learning some complicated piece of gear. I'm about at the point
now where I wouldn't mind approaching something that required more
education, but during my decision making process, it just seemed
overwhelming. 

Plus, the fact that I didn't have a looping device previous meant that
I needed to learn what features were interesting/important before I
could make a truely educated decision. The Repeater hit a price point
that allowed me to do that. Given what I know now, I might choose an
EDP instead, but who was to know? I'm still not unhappy with the
Repeater, and I've had an enjoyable few months playing along with it. I
just need another CF card or two... <grin>

Greg

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 13 15:32:09 2002
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On Thursday, June 13, 2002, at 08:42 PM, Greg House wrote:

> What are your complaints with it?

Ive stated a few bugs in the O.S. - one is it is impossible to build up 
ambient drones on a pre-recorded empty loop on overdub. Try with a vocal 
mic on a fast (180BPM) 2/4 beat loop and build up a quick choral layer. 
Notice the glitches in the gain?

Also, try (again with a fast loop - 2/4 180BPM ) to extend the loop. 
Sometimes the BPM drops drastically (CPU overload?) for a few seconds.

Try dreaming about this unit for 2 years, reading the advertising, 
planning how to use it for all of this time. Then, suddenly being in a 
position to borrow a Midi footpedal and effects unit, then the worlds 
best electric violin (in my opinion - no wars about my judgement on 
this).... and then in 24 hours, received enough donations from followers 
of my project to buy a Repeater.....

...And then I get it, and cannot use it in the way that I had been lead 
to believe I could. Maybe I use loops differently from you, or because I 
play completely hands-free - I'm having this problem.

It sucks that after all of this, that I still cannot play my music the 
way that I want to.
--
Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
http://www.solostring.com
stuart@solostring.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 13 15:32:31 2002
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Subject: Re: Repeater OS issues
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 19:02:46 +0000
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I can tell you my Repeater doesn't respond properly to 
MIDI commands. I have to use a MIDI foot pedal AND a 
Digitech Pedal (just to hit 'PLAY'.

Regards, Paul
> --- Stuart Wyatt <stuart@solostring.com> wrote:
> 
> > I think my point earlier was just due to my frustration that I might
> > be 
> > stuck permanently with OS1.1 - Its buggy, could have so many options,
> > more midi implementation etc. etc. I have found it highly limited at 
> > times. 
> 
> What are your complaints with it? I've been using mine for about 6
> months now, haven't ever had a crash or experienced any abberant
> behavior from it. Admittedly, I'm not a "power user" (no midi
> controller, etc), but it's been stable and I've greatly enjoyed using
> it.
> 
> > But now, more than anything, I want an EDP. To hear how passionate 
> > people are about this box really highlights my ignorance in the unit,
> > and feeling embarrassed for saying what I did. It might be because
> > they are quite rare in Europe, and I have never met anyone who 
> > actually has one.
> 
> I think loopers are rare in general. I've travelled in musical circles
> for 15 years or more and I've never met anyone in person who had a
> looper (other then the DL-4, and 99% of the people with those don't use
> the looper mode).
> 
> The flexability of the EDP actually contributed to my decision to get a
> Repeater instead. The were three main factors that influenced my
> decision. 1) the EDP cost quite a bit more, 2) the Repeater provided
> persistant storage (compact flash), and 3) it appeared that there was a
> substantial learning curve associated with being able to use an EDP
> effectively. 
> 
> The last one was a big deal because I didn't have a lot of free time
> when I got this and I just wanted to play some music, not spend a long
> time learning some complicated piece of gear. I'm about at the point
> now where I wouldn't mind approaching something that required more
> education, but during my decision making process, it just seemed
> overwhelming. 
> 
> Plus, the fact that I didn't have a looping device previous meant that
> I needed to learn what features were interesting/important before I
> could make a truely educated decision. The Repeater hit a price point
> that allowed me to do that. Given what I know now, I might choose an
> EDP instead, but who was to know? I'm still not unhappy with the
> Repeater, and I've had an enjoyable few months playing along with it. I
> just need another CF card or two... <grin>
> 
> Greg
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
> http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 13 15:37:50 2002
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Subject: Re: Effects on the floor? ( was Re: Lexi MPX1)
References: <F71ViDGOcBeCC4CnK7Q0001bb79@hotmail.com> <3D07E60E.37BBDF24@zerocrossing.net> <016c01c21287$e3a71ca0$fe17bd18@electric71xq89> <3D08DEDF.ED71566D@zerocrossing.net> <002b01c2130a$9cfe2fe0$0101a8c0@o4z6b8>
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Real-time sound tweakage is key!  I knew it wouldn't be long before I was down
on my knees again!  (not counting the trying to get paying gigs down on my
knees)

Thanks!

Mark

Luigi Meloni wrote:

> If you like how your korg sounds I would tell you to try the AX1500. I just
> tried it in a friend's music shop and I find its sounds and effects to be
> really good. Another machine compared to the AX1000, too. To my hear at
> least...
> The thing I liked most of the unit was changing the delay times with the
> tone knob way down and the feedback to the max. The result sounds really
> analog to my hear. Similar to the sound I obtained with a very old analog
> delay. I've tried to do the same with both my rack multifx units and
> couldn't get even near this result (I tried it with a Boss VF-1, a Digitech
> Valve FX and a Korg A1). No clicks or pops while turning (quickly) full down
> and full up the time knob. Only sound swirls.
> Loved this.
> And the other fx are good too. Loved the tremolo and the chorus. Plus it has
> some weird fx in it and a (not so good to be honest) whammy effect, too.
>
> Peace
> Luigi
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Sottilaro" <sine@zerocrossing.net>
> To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 8:05 PM
> Subject: Effects on the floor? ( was Re: Lexi MPX1)
>
> > I saw mine for that price while picking up MIDI cables at Guitar Center,
> but I
> > bet any big music retailer would match that price.
> >
> > My floor is officially full up.  I can't put another pedal on it.  I'm
> actually
> > toying with the idea of getting rid of my Digitech 2120, because with the
> > Control 1, it takes up a big chunk of floor space, as well as two rack
> spaces.
> > I know it get's a bad rap for some reason, but I actually really like that
> > box.  I think the key to getting a good sound out of it is not going into
> a
> > guitar amp afterwards, but into a pair of full range speakers, but I
> digress...
> >
> > Is there something really hot that lives on the floor?  Something like the
> > Digitech GNX3?  Anyone have it here?  It seems to have nice looping
> > posibilites.  Korg AX100?  I love my (now dormant) AX30, but it needs a
> nice
> > preamp after it to sound beefy.
> >
> > Mark Sottilaro
> >
> > Bill Cummings wrote:
> >
> > > Mark,
> > > who's blowing them out for that price? Also, have you checked out the
> > > Lexicon MPXR1 MIDI Remote Controller? they look like they were made for
> each
> > > other
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Mark Sottilaro" <sine@zerocrossing.net>
> > > To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 8:23 PM
> > > Subject: Re: OT: Drum machines vs. Human beings
> > >
> > > > max valentino wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > One last thing.....I have also recently switched my processing
> around
> > > now
> > > > > favoring putting fx (which is now pretty much down to an M-One and
> > > > > parametric eq) AFTER my looper; insuch processing the loops instead
> of
> > > > > looping the fx.  Using timed delays, and detuned delays, this
> creates
> > > some
> > > > > very interesting polyrhytms whic can be "undone" by simply switching
> > > back to
> > > > > the original fx program (or to an different one).  Just curious
> about
> > > how
> > > > > many of you are setting up fx and loop mangling....
> > > > > sorry about the length....
> > > > > Max
> > > >
> > > > This is exactly what I've been doing with the Repeater and the Lexicon
> > > MPX1.
> > > > It's in the Repeater effects loop, usually set to be on the loop,
> instead
> > > of
> > > > the input.  This means what I play is dry, until it hits the first
> > > iteration of
> > > > the loop.  Very nice.  The MPX1 has an A/B button similar to the
> Vortex,
> > > where
> > > > I set the A to Mix=0% and the B=100%.  Then I set the rate of change
> to
> > > "50" (I
> > > > have no idea what this coorasponds to, but it gives a nice gradule
> change
> > > from
> > > > dry to wet and back again)
> > > >
> > > > One of my favorite patches is a factory preset that initates a looped
> > > delay
> > > > based on midi clock.  When you hit the a/b button, it grabs a smaller
> > > chunk of
> > > > my Repeater loop.  Picking weird times to hit the button can give
> really
> > > > intereseting results, and you can go back to your loop by hitting the
> a/b
> > > > again.
> > > >
> > > > The MPX1 has been discontinued, so they're blowing them out for $425.
> Not
> > > bad
> > > > for a box that sold for $700
> > > >
> > > > Mark
> > > >
> > > >
> >

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 13 15:56:18 2002
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Subject: Re: Repeater OS issues
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"Ive stated a few bugs in the O.S. - one is it is 
impossible to build up ambient drones on a pre-recorded 
empty loop on overdub. Try with a vocal mic on a fast 
(180BPM) 2/4 beat loop and build up a quick choral layer. 
Notice the glitches in the gain?"


i do this all the time and have not noticed a problem at 
all..i can even offer up evidence :D
c

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 13 16:03:33 2002
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> > Also, I'm again hearing about the delay of the dry signal pass through 
> the
> > Repeater.  If there is a latency, it must be very tiny.  I can not hear
> > it.  I've hooked it up to an effects send, where it should have been
> > apparent, and did not notice any delay.  Does anyone else here this 
> delay?
> >
> > Mark

It's massive, man! Clearly apparent when you play guitar through it, worse 
like those older guitar-to-midi converters. I can't believe someone 
wouldn't notice...!?

Andreas

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On Thursday, June 13, 2002, at 09:53 PM, Christopher White wrote:

> i do this all the time and have not noticed a problem at all..i can 
> even offer up evidence :D

As can I that I'm getting this problem. I'll try and record something 
over the next couple of days and upload it as an mp3. I've searched all 
over the net, and have tried to copy exactly what other people are 
doing, but I still get the problem. I have OS 1.1, the unit is brand 
new, and as I record direct into the repeater, and from there to 
minidisc (the reverb is put on later), there is no gain 
problems/interference problems. Its earthed, the violin gives a pro 
signal.

I'm not making it up. Honest ;)

--
Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
http://www.solostring.com
stuart@solostring.com

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Subject: Re: Boss RC-20
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "W. L. Altman" <waltman@mta.ca>

> Now I'm suffering the slightest cognitive dissonance.  Is the decay 
> curve of multi-dubs on the RC-20 a problem that cannot be dealt with 
> via input/output levels?  If I can work with it then the extra 5 
> minutes of loop are worth it.  But if the Line6 does a superior job, 
> 28 secs can be enough for me at this stage.

I can't do it today, but sometime in the next few days, I'll
unpack my equipment (I just did a show last night and I'm
busy listening to the tapes) and I'll do a more scientific
comparison of the rc20 & dl4. I'd like to see how slow
a 28 second loop on the rc20 fades out.


* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

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Subject: Re: Pitch-shifting percussion sounds in realtime...
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 15:31:47 +0100
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hot off the eventide-helps press:

"Well...pitch shifting=Eventide!

There should be no delay of the pitch-shifted signal (very important since I
want to use it for rhythms)

Ptch shifting ALWAYS needs  a small delay amount to process the sound:
Eventide has the shortest amount in the industry, around 4ms.

and what I think makes the thing quite difficult, the ability to changes to
pitch in realtime via midi. Is this possible with the eventide units (older
or newer ones)?"

Of course it is possible with all Tides!


Italo"








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Subject: Half-Speed in Loop IV
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Does going into half-speed mode double the recording time in Loop IV? 

Dave Eichenberger
http://www.hazardfactor.com
 



From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 13 16:38:39 2002
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To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Repeater vs EDP (what I like about the Repeater)
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None of the following is at all intended to resemble a face-slapping
gesture!  :)

Stuart Wyatt wrote:

> My gripes with the Midi implementation might be a little biased. I agree
> that with the correct hardware (intelligent Midi controllers and lots of
> pedals), you could have an amazing level of control - however, I'm on a
> limited budget and currently only have access to an FC200. Its
> frustrating that I can only use 50% of the features hands-free :(

It's true that really good floor-based MIDI controllers, with truly
comprehensive implementation, are a fairly rare thing.  Have you looked
into the recent Behringer MIDI pedal?  Or investigated the long
out-of-production (but immensely powerful) Digitech PMC-10?  They're
both pretty cheap (relatively speaking...)

> The loop extending feature is the reason why I purchased a Repeater.
> Basically, my rhythm sucks (it is non-existent), so a way to get around
> this is to record a short loop with a single attack, and extend that to
> 16/32/64/128/256 beats - a kind of organic metronome.

The EDP does this too... it's called Multiply in the EDP OS.  Each
multiple is called a "cycle," and there are scores of ways to add new
cycles of brand new material onto old ones (using the Insert function),
remultiply from one number of cycles to another (larger or smaller)
number, and even perform "unrounded multiplies," so that you can get a
loop that's, say, 3 and 7/16ths cycles long (or .001 cycles long!), and
thereby completely redefine the basic cycle length you're working with. 
The cycle-based loop structure is one of the key foundations of the EDP
architecture, and one of the things that sets it apart from the pack.

> Try dreaming about this unit for 2 years, reading the advertising, 
> planning how to use it for all of this time. Then, suddenly being in a 
> position to borrow a Midi footpedal and effects unit, then the worlds 
> best electric violin (in my opinion - no wars about my judgement on 
> this).... and then in 24 hours, received enough donations from followers 
> of my project to buy a Repeater.....
> ...And then I get it, and cannot use it in the way that I had been lead 
> to believe I could. 

That's actually precisely the same basic position a lot of people found
themselves in when the Repeater was released in August of last year...
except most of them didn't rustle up donations for it!  ;)

The issues you're describing have been very widely discussed on both
this list and the Electrix boards for well over half a year, so this
information is very much out there and available.  I'd recommend
researching the EDP a bit more before you get too gear-lustful about it,
just to be clear on the feature set and avoid another case of
disappointment when you finally get to using it.  

The list archive is a great resource, though with five and a half years
of material it could take some time to sort through (it's worth it!) 
Depending on what you're trying to do, you might need multiple units, or
even a software program, in order to pull it off...

Anyway.

--Andre LaFosse
http://www.altruistmusic.com
IMI-IBI

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 13 16:51:25 2002
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Subject: Boomerang
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 15:41:46 -0500
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Here's a question for Boomerang users regarding the "continuous reverse
mode" (CRM).

1) Does the 'Rang enter CRM *whenever* you start recording and REVERSE is
on?

For example, say that you've recorded a normal loop (i.e., in non-CRM),
you've reversed it, and now you stop it.  The 'Rang is idle with REVERSE
lit.  Now you press RECORD.  Is the 'Rang in CRM?

2) When does the 'Rang exit CRM?

Say that the 'Rang is in CRM and you press DIRECTION.  Does the 'Rang
immediately exit CRM and begin looping your last audio?

Or say that the 'Rang is in CRM and you press PLAY(STOP).  If you press
PLAY(STOP) again does the 'Rang start looping whatever you last played into
it?

3) Are any of these answers different for Version 2 than Version 1?


Disclaimer: I don't have a Boomerang but I'm building an emulation of it.
All I've got to work from are the on-line docs.

Does anybody in the Lafayette, Indiana area have a 'Rang?


Dennis Leas
-------------------
dennis@mdbs.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 13 16:58:38 2002
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Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 15:46:56 -0500
Subject: New Zero Ohms CD SOUNDFALL TO THE INFINITE
From: "Richard J. Roberts" <zeroohms@surfbest.net>
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> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

--MS_Mac_OE_3106828017_1743957_MIME_Part
Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
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Hi All -

I am de-lurking to let you know about my new CD release on SpaceForMusic.co=
m
Records called SOUNDFALL TO THE INFINITE by Zero Ohms / Brannan Lane!
Several tracks on the CD utilize loops from my Jamman, so I thought posting
here might be appropriate and appreciated.

Jim Brenholts, of Ambient Visions Reviews says, "It defines the splendor of
solitude. Deep listeners will appreciate the opportunity to explore the
self." Read the entire review at:

http://ambientvisions.com/5312002.htm

And David Opdyke at Ambientrance Reviews called it, "=8Aa floatation zone of
restrained splendor=8Amore than an hour of turbulence-free immersion." Read
David's interview with Brannan and myself and his review in this month's
Ambientrance update:

http://www.ambientrance.org/0602/ohmslane.html


Soundfall to the Infinite can be ordered at:

spaceformusic.com/zeroohms

or at=20

www.brannanlane.com


Thanks!

Richard

Richard J. Roberts / ZERO OHMS=81
spaceformusic.com/zeroohms


--=20



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<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>New Zero Ohms CD SOUNDFALL TO THE INFINITE</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
Hi All -<BR>
<BR>
I am de-lurking to let you know about my new CD release on SpaceForMusic.co=
m Records called <B>SOUNDFALL TO THE INFINITE by Zero Ohms / Brannan Lane</B=
>!<BR>
Several tracks on the CD utilize loops from my Jamman, so I thought posting=
 here might be appropriate and appreciated.<BR>
<BR>
Jim Brenholts, of <I>Ambient Visions Reviews</I> says, &quot;It defines the=
 splendor of solitude. Deep listeners will appreciate the opportunity to exp=
lore the self.&quot; Read the entire review at:<BR>
<BR>
<FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><FONT FACE=3D"Times"><U>http://ambientvisions.com/53120=
02.htm<BR>
</U></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Times"><U><BR>
</U></FONT>And David Opdyke at <I>Ambientrance Reviews</I> called it, &quot=
;=8Aa floatation zone of restrained splendor=8Amore than an hour of turbulence-f=
ree immersion.&quot; Read David's interview with Brannan and myself and his =
review in this month's Ambientrance update:<BR>
<BR>
<FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><FONT FACE=3D"Times"><U>http://www.ambientrance.org/060=
2/ohmslane.html<BR>
</U></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Times"><U><BR>
<BR>
</U></FONT>Soundfall to the Infinite can be ordered at:<BR>
<BR>
<FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF">spaceformusic.com/zeroohms<BR>
</FONT><BR>
or at <BR>
<BR>
<FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF">www.brannanlane.com<BR>
</FONT><BR>
<BR>
Thanks!<BR>
<BR>
Richard<BR>
<BR>
Richard J. Roberts / ZERO OHMS=81<BR>
spaceformusic.com/zeroohms<BR>
<U><BR>
</U><BR>
-- <BR>
<BR>
</BODY>
</HTML>


--MS_Mac_OE_3106828017_1743957_MIME_Part--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 13 16:58:45 2002
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From: Kim Flint <kflint@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Re: Half-Speed in Loop IV
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Yes, that is correct.
kim

At 01:29 PM 6/13/2002, future perfect wrote:
>Does going into half-speed mode double the recording time in Loop IV?
>
>Dave Eichenberger
>http://www.hazardfactor.com
>

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com

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Subject: Re: Loopers-Delight-d Digest V02 #352
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What OS are you running?

I've frequently forgotten to turn on dry mute, since the signal is just
comes out louder from my rig with it on mine, no flanging or delay.


----- Original Message -----
From: "A.Willers" <A.Willers@t-online.de>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 2:59 PM
Subject: Re: Loopers-Delight-d Digest V02 #352


> > > Also, I'm again hearing about the delay of the dry signal pass through
> > the
> > > Repeater.  If there is a latency, it must be very tiny.  I can not
hear
> > > it.  I've hooked it up to an effects send, where it should have been
> > > apparent, and did not notice any delay.  Does anyone else here this
> > delay?
> > >
> > > Mark
>
> It's massive, man! Clearly apparent when you play guitar through it, worse
> like those older guitar-to-midi converters. I can't believe someone
> wouldn't notice...!?
>
> Andreas
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 13 17:09:49 2002
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From: David Beardsley <db@biink.com>
Subject: ot :Hungry Ghost: Pandit Pran Nath Homage
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Off topic, but hopefully you, my looping friends can dig
these articles and interviews. I'm currently tripping
on the the Jon Hassell interview.

dB


>From Marcus Boon <marcus3001@yahoo.com>

>Here at last is the first part of the Hungry Ghost homage to Indian raga
>master Pandit Pran Nath, featuring essays Henry Flynt, Joan Allekotte and
>myself, and interviews with Charlemagne Palestine and Jon Hassell, as well
>as stacks of photos and the like.  Pandit Pran Nath passed away on this day,
>June 13, 1996.  Massive respect.
>
>http://www.hungryghost.net



* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Off topic, but hopefully you, my looping friends 
can dig</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>these articles and interviews. I'm currently tripping</DIV>
<DIV>on the the Jon Hassell interview.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>dB</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>From Marcus Boon &lt;<A 
href="mailto:marcus3001@yahoo.com">marcus3001@yahoo.com</A>&gt;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>&gt;Here at 
last is the first part of the Hungry Ghost homage to Indian raga<BR>&gt;master 
Pandit Pran Nath, featuring essays Henry Flynt, Joan Allekotte 
and<BR>&gt;myself, and interviews with Charlemagne Palestine and Jon Hassell, as 
well<BR>&gt;as stacks of photos and the like.&nbsp; Pandit Pran Nath passed away 
on this day,<BR>&gt;June 13, 1996.&nbsp; Massive 
respect.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;</FONT><A href="http://www.hungryghost.net"><FONT 
face="Times New Roman" 
size=3>http://www.hungryghost.net</FONT></A></FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>* David Beardsley<BR>* <A 
href="http://biink.com">http://biink.com</A><BR>* <A 
href="http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley">http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley</A></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

--Boundary_(ID_jukHJfrp+EuhAunZOZNgXg)--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 13 17:56:53 2002
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well you guys have seen the info already, but lookee here:
http://www.harmony-central.com/Newp/2002/LoopIV-Upgrade.html

sorry, I had to do the horn-tooting thing. it's always fun to see the press 
release actually appear in the press!

kim


______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com

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I'll look forward to the data.   Thanks David.. W. L.

>  I'll do a more scientific
>comparison of the rc20 & dl4. I'd like to see how slow
>a 28 second loop on the rc20 fades out.


-- 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 13 18:06:24 2002
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OK.  For once and for all, I'm going to go home and make a test of my unit.
If there's "massive" latency, why didn't I hear a doubling or thick phasing
when I run it in the effects loop of my Mackie mixer?  I wasn't looking for
this, but I'd imagine I sure would have noticed it but I may be just
sloooooooooooooooow.

I'll have a full report by tomorrow, and will actually measure waveforms for
precision.

Mark



"A.Willers" wrote:

> > > Also, I'm again hearing about the delay of the dry signal pass through
> > the
> > > Repeater.  If there is a latency, it must be very tiny.  I can not hear
> > > it.  I've hooked it up to an effects send, where it should have been
> > > apparent, and did not notice any delay.  Does anyone else here this
> > delay?
> > >
> > > Mark
>
> It's massive, man! Clearly apparent when you play guitar through it, worse
> like those older guitar-to-midi converters. I can't believe someone
> wouldn't notice...!?
>
> Andreas

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 13 18:14:33 2002
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Jonathan El-Bizri wrote:

> What OS are you running?
>
> I've frequently forgotten to turn on dry mute, since the signal is just
> comes out louder from my rig with it on mine, no flanging or delay.

I echo this finding. (all pun intended)  If there were latency issues, it would
clearly show up in this situation as bad flanging or at the very worst a bad
doubling.

Mark

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 13 18:20:44 2002
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wasn't this supposed to be out already?


   Kevin

P.S. I know just like the Surface One...

--
-------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Goldsmith                          kevin@unitcircle.com
Unit Circle Media                   http://www.unitcircle.com
--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 13 18:42:02 2002
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Subject: ambient then rhythmic?
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Hi all,

Does anyone here do loop pieces that perhaps start out in ambient fashion (no 
real time) and then move into looped rhythmic parts?  I'm trying to figure 
out how one might do this.  Is it necessary to have two units?

I own a Repeater and it seems as though if you start freely there's no way to 
then lay down something with a pulse.  In otherwords if you have say 10 
seconds of "ambient" and then start a rhythmic phrase that might be 12 
seconds.. you're out of luck if you want it to line up cleanly with the 
start/stop point, unless of course you keep the "ambient" material to a set 
bpm and length to begin with (I'd like to be free with it).  

Is there a way to do this on the EDP?  I'm hunting through the manual today, 
but it seems the only way to extend the length of a loop is via insert (which 
doesn't overdub on the original material).  

For those of a more graphical nature, I'm trying to do this:

step 1 - AAAAAAAAAA
step 2 - RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Hope this makes sense,
Tom



From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 13 18:44:29 2002
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I'm surprised that they left the unnecessary nasty language in the 
published press release. I still can't wait for the upgrade to arrive...

> well you guys have seen the info already, but lookee here:
> http://www.harmony-central.com/Newp/2002/LoopIV-Upgrade.html
>
> sorry, I had to do the horn-tooting thing. it's always fun to see the 
> press release actually appear in the press!
..................................................................
Doug Miller
<artist class="web">

http://www.dispatch.com
http://www.columbusnow.com
http://www.cccn.org
http://home.columbus.rr.com/dougmiller

--Apple-Mail-2-603834396
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I'm surprised that they left the unnecessary nasty language in the
published press release. I still can't wait for the upgrade to
arrive...


<excerpt>well you guys have seen the info already, but lookee here:

http://www.harmony-central.com/Newp/2002/LoopIV-Upgrade.html


sorry, I had to do the horn-tooting thing. it's always fun to see the
press release actually appear in the press!

</excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller><smaller>..................................................................

</smaller></smaller></fontfamily><bold><fontfamily><param>Arial Black</param><smaller><smaller>Doug
Miller</smaller></smaller></fontfamily></bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller><smaller>

<<artist class="web">


http://www.dispatch.com

http://www.columbusnow.com

http://www.cccn.org

http://home.columbus.rr.com/dougmiller</smaller></smaller></fontfamily>
--Apple-Mail-2-603834396--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 13 18:44:39 2002
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It's not like a flanger fx box but it is definitely there- every time I
forget to dry mute (Rptr on Aux of mixer) I realise it within a short while-
it just doesent sound as crisp and very slightly flanged/phased- and as soon
as I dry mute it is quite a relief. Maybe it is just an amount that some
people hear and are bothered by and others are not-

As for delay when I use it in line- I adjust and more or less get used to
it- but the moment I remove it  or play on another rig without a Repeater in
line it is obvious- plug direct into your amp and play for a short while-
then plug through
the Repeater- it just doesent feel the same at all to me-
The best comparison I can make is like if you usually play through a lot of
effects or sub par amp and one day you get a tube amp and all of the sudden
there is an immediacy and feel that you don't normally have- a stronger
connection to the act of playing is the result for me anyway-

Cliff


----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Sottilaro" <sine@zerocrossing.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 3:12 PM
Subject: Re: Loopers-Delight-d Digest V02 #352


>
>
> Jonathan El-Bizri wrote:
>
> > What OS are you running?
> >
> > I've frequently forgotten to turn on dry mute, since the signal is just
> > comes out louder from my rig with it on mine, no flanging or delay.
>
> I echo this finding. (all pun intended)  If there were latency issues, it
would
> clearly show up in this situation as bad flanging or at the very worst a
bad
> doubling.
>
> Mark
>
>
>



From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 13 18:56:33 2002
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The closest I come is starting ambient on the Repeater and using the ambient
loop tempo as the tempo to sync the rhythm with. (In your case the original
10 second loop would act as the final rhythmic cycle) Basically you want 2
different loop lengths which you will actually need 2 units for- you could
use Digitech PDS-8000 pedal, Akai Headrush, Line6 DL4, etc to do the
ambient- then do the rhythmic on the Repeater- which will act as master
clock after you establish your loop- you will sometimes need to adjust the
time sig on Repeater to make your rhythm machines play nice-

Another thought-  you could create the ambient loop on Rptr, adjust the BPM
for rhythm, and see if the resulting ambient loop sounds good or not- it
will have been stretched/compressed depending on your BPM change.

Cliff

----- Original Message -----
From: <DialaThos@aol.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 3:39 PM
Subject: ambient then rhythmic?


> Hi all,
>
> Does anyone here do loop pieces that perhaps start out in ambient fashion
(no
> real time) and then move into looped rhythmic parts?  I'm trying to figure
> out how one might do this.  Is it necessary to have two units?
>
> I own a Repeater and it seems as though if you start freely there's no way
to
> then lay down something with a pulse.  In otherwords if you have say 10
> seconds of "ambient" and then start a rhythmic phrase that might be 12
> seconds.. you're out of luck if you want it to line up cleanly with the
> start/stop point, unless of course you keep the "ambient" material to a
set
> bpm and length to begin with (I'd like to be free with it).
>
> Is there a way to do this on the EDP?  I'm hunting through the manual
today,
> but it seems the only way to extend the length of a loop is via insert
(which
> doesn't overdub on the original material).
>
> For those of a more graphical nature, I'm trying to do this:
>
> step 1 - AAAAAAAAAA
> step 2 - RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
>
> Hope this makes sense,
> Tom
>
>
>
>


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 13 18:57:27 2002
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Subject: RE: Repeater vs EDP (what I like about the Repeater)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 15:43:14 -0700
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for those with both (or thinking of it), and waiting for LoopIV: From
reading the LoopIV manual (and hearing Andre's LoopIV work), I have a
feeling the vastly improved EDP sync functions (with EDP as slave or master)
are going to be of huge benefit to tandem useage, almost as good as getting
an OS upgrade on the Repeater (maybe better)!



    _/      _/  _/_/_/  _/  _/
   _/_/    _/  _/      _/  _/
  _/  _/  _/  _/_/    _/  _/
 _/    _/_/  _/      _/  _/
_/      _/  _/_/_/  _/  _/_/_/



From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 13 19:11:03 2002
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From: "Clifford Novey" <om@Om-Studios.com>
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Subject: Re: Repeater vs EDP (what I like about the Repeater)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 16:09:02 -0700
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Agreed! Included in this monstrous update (read the LoopIV pdf file! wow.)
are some exciting new sync and quantize functions. First there was Batman
and Robin, then the Wonder Twins- now this!

Cliffordinski

----- Original Message -----
From: "Neil Goldstein" <ngold@attbi.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 3:43 PM
Subject: RE: Repeater vs EDP (what I like about the Repeater)


> for those with both (or thinking of it), and waiting for LoopIV: From
> reading the LoopIV manual (and hearing Andre's LoopIV work), I have a
> feeling the vastly improved EDP sync functions (with EDP as slave or
master)
> are going to be of huge benefit to tandem useage, almost as good as
getting
> an OS upgrade on the Repeater (maybe better)!
>
>
>
>     _/      _/  _/_/_/  _/  _/
>    _/_/    _/  _/      _/  _/
>   _/  _/  _/  _/_/    _/  _/
>  _/    _/_/  _/      _/  _/
> _/      _/  _/_/_/  _/  _/_/_/
>
>
>
>


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 13 19:16:14 2002
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Subject: Re: Repeater vs EDP (what I like about the Repeater)
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> for those with both (or thinking of it), and waiting for LoopIV: From
> reading the LoopIV manual (and hearing Andre's LoopIV work), I have a
> feeling the vastly improved EDP sync functions (with EDP as slave or
master)
> are going to be of huge benefit to tandem useage, almost as good as
getting
> an OS upgrade on the Repeater (maybe better)!

YES!  As an EDP-IV and Repeater user I couldn't agree more.  Lights came on
in my head when I first tried the loop-IV o.s. with my repeater.  Loop4 is
designed to play well with other midi-clock units, Loop4 has midi-piping to
the thru-jack, Loop4 has a visual tempo display, Loop4 has much better
8th/beat control scheme for syncing the repeater, on and on.
Jon

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 13 19:23:26 2002
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Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 19:21:08 EDT
Subject: Re: ambient then rhythmic?
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In a message dated 6/13/02 10:40:23 PM, DialaThos@aol.com writes:

<< Does anyone here do loop pieces that perhaps start out in ambient fashion 
(no 
real time) and then move into looped rhythmic parts?  I'm trying to figure 
out how one might do this.  Is it necessary to have two units? >>

Multiple non synced loopers work well for this.  The "ones" don't match up 
consistently and this creates moving pulses/rhythms.   I generally use long 
delay type loopers (no tap tempo or midi sync available), such as the 
Digitech RDS8000/ Time Machine, for "throwing paint against a canvas" type 
texturely loops and "tap in/out" loopers (Repeater) for rythmic stuff.  If 
you sync the latter to the former, via tap in/ out, they're bound to drift, 
and by bouncing between them when adding/ fading new material you can best 
create evolving loops.  This is also a good way to give movement and provide 
interest to a static loop, say one consisting of a distinct, repetative 
musical phrase (ie a "boring" loop). - Paul

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 13 19:35:31 2002
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What I observe is that as an overdub is added, the earlier
material is slightly lowered in volume.  This makes sense-
otherwise your loop would get louder and louder.  I have
never noticed a drop in volume from the loop just playing
without additional overdubs.

Trying to control the result of the RC-20's built in
feedback parameter via i/o levels might be possible,
but _very_ tricky.  You could perhaps start with low
input gain and high output level, then as dubs are added
shift both so the volume remains constant.  The dubs
would be recorded at higher and levels so they are
louder in the mix.

A couple problems with this:  First it would take a lot
of dilegence to tweak the knobs just right.  Second, there
will be good levels which keep your noise floor down and
avoid clipping, so only a narrow range of the controls
will probably be practical.

Incidentally, since you are considering the Line6, I'll
offer that the Repeater might also be a good solution.
The price difference between the RC-20 and Repeater is
a lot less than when I bought the Boss pedal, but the
Repeater does way, way more.  Particulary, it does
four simutaneous tracks, each of which can have an
independent level.  Sound useful for your application?

I hope this hope your dissonant cognition.

-Steven




Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 10:14:27 -0700

   From: "W. L. Altman" <waltman@mta.ca>

     To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com

Subject: Re: Boss RC-20

Now I'm suffering the slightest cognitive dissonance.  Is the
decay
curve of multi-dubs on the RC-20 a problem that cannot be dealt
with
via input/output levels?  If I can work with it then the extra
5
minutes of loop are worth it.  But if the Line6 does a superior
job,
28 secs can be enough for me at this stage.

Ever in need of reassurance... W.L.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 13 19:39:00 2002
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Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 16:34:02 -0700
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DialaThos@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Does anyone here do loop pieces that perhaps start out in ambient fashion (no
> real time) and then move into looped rhythmic parts?  

Yep!

>  Is it necessary to have two units?

Nope!

> Is there a way to do this on the EDP?  I'm hunting through the manual today,
> but it seems the only way to extend the length of a loop is via insert (which
> doesn't overdub on the original material).

Several ways, actually:

1) Use UnRounded Multiply (ending Multiply with Record) while playing a
rhythmic figure, and hit record (to end the multiply) in time with the
new rhythm you're playing, so you have a new loop that's been redefined
to the length of the rhythm you're playing.

2) Set sync=out, take an audio cable out of the beatsync jack, and use
the click track which ensues (which the EDP automatically generates when
sync=out, according to the value of 8th/beat) as an audible reference of
where the pulse is within the loop.

3) Use the flashing tempo LED in LoopIV to get a visual cue of where the
pulse is within the loop, and overdub material using the LED as a reference.

4) Use 8th/beat quantization in LoopIV to drop new material into the
loop via Replace or Substitute.  For an example of this technique in
action: http://www.altruistmusic.com/soundfiles/glitch.mp3

5) Use Insert=SUS in Stutter Mode to "stretch" sections within a cycle,
in order to elongate different sections until an originally arythmic
loop starts assuming a tangible rhythmic form.  Examples:
http://shoko.calarts.edu/~altruist/generator.mp3 or http://www.altruistmusic.com/ram/ttgtr2.ram

That's what I can think of right now, anyway...

--Andre

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 13 19:41:44 2002
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From: "M. Steven Ginn" <sginn@airmail.net>
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Subject: Integrating EDP into mix
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 18:40:15 -0500
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I am still in the process of trying to get the EDP integrated into my
rig.  I currently have the EDP on Send 1 pre-fade, another mono device
on Send 2 post-fade and my Eclipse on Send3&4 post-fade.  When I play my
synths connected to my mixer, I can here the effects of the Eclipse
exactly as they should, but when I lay down a loop on the EDP the
resulting signal (loop) ends up coming out dry without an Eclipse
effects.  Now I don't necessarily mind that the effects aren't recorded
on the actual loop, but I would think that since my EDP out is coming
back to a separate mixer channel that it's signal would be processed by
the Eclipse, but its not.  I am wondering if I should just use the Aux
out bus for the EDP instead of Send 1, but I am not really sure.  FYI, I
am used to working with a mixer but in the past have only had to worry
about routing to a single effects device, but now with the EDP I am not
sure I understand how to properly route my signals.

Thanks,
Steve

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 13 19:43:55 2002
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Subject: RE: Repeater vs EDP (what I like about the Repeater)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 18:32:10 -0500
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So then I guess the ideal setup would be to have EDP-IV setup as the
master tempo clock and the Repeater and other devices setup to sync to
the EDP-IV?

Steve


> 
> > for those with both (or thinking of it), and waiting for 
> LoopIV: From 
> > reading the LoopIV manual (and hearing Andre's LoopIV 
> work), I have a 
> > feeling the vastly improved EDP sync functions (with EDP as slave or
> master)
> > are going to be of huge benefit to tandem useage, almost as good as
> getting
> > an OS upgrade on the Repeater (maybe better)!
> 
> YES!  As an EDP-IV and Repeater user I couldn't agree more.  
> Lights came on in my head when I first tried the loop-IV o.s. 
> with my repeater.  Loop4 is designed to play well with other 
> midi-clock units, Loop4 has midi-piping to the thru-jack, 
> Loop4 has a visual tempo display, Loop4 has much better 
> 8th/beat control scheme for syncing the repeater, on and on. Jon
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 13 19:57:34 2002
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I think that the kernal of what DialaThos@aol.com was looking for is unsynchronized polyrhythmic loops, which can't be done on any of the dedicated looping boxes currently, but is greatly desired by many.  While Andre's suggestions are good tips for introducing rhythms into arrythmic loops, they aren't solutions to the problem.

    Kevin

P.S. also, they can pretty much be done on any of the existing loopers.

--
-------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Goldsmith                          kevin@unitcircle.com
Unit Circle Media                   http://www.unitcircle.com
--

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Hi Kevin,

> While Andre's suggestions are good tips for 
> introducing rhythms into arrythmic loops, 
> they aren't solutions to the problem.
> P.S. also, they can pretty much be done on any of the existing loopers.

REALLY?!!?

Jeez, I had no idea... wow.

Now I'm curious: how would things like unrounded multiply, 8th-quantized
substitute, or SUS-insert be done on a Repeater/DL4/JamMan/Boomerang?

--Andre

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I only found one filthy word.  Did I miss something?
Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: Kim Flint [mailto:kflint@loopers-delight.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 2:55 PM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: LoopIV on harmony central



well you guys have seen the info already, but lookee here:
http://www.harmony-central.com/Newp/2002/LoopIV-Upgrade.html

sorry, I had to do the horn-tooting thing. it's always fun to see the press
release actually appear in the press!

kim


______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 13 20:51:21 2002
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>Now I'm curious: how would things like unrounded multiply, 8th-quantized
>substitute, or SUS-insert be done on a Repeater/DL4/JamMan/Boomerang?
>
Unrounded multiply == Shorten loop, this can't be done on all loopers, but it can be done on the repeater

8th Quantized Substitute == overdub rhythmically (really replace rhythmically, but lets say overdub because it produces a similar if not the exact effect).  I've done this on the repeater, DL4, Headrush and Boomerang, I don't own a JamMan, but I've seen it done there too.

I haven't gotten my LoopIV upgrade yet, so I don't remember what SUS-Insert does, but if you remind me I can describe how to do it for you.

Note: I'm not against the EDP, heck I own one.  But I've done a lot of experimenting with other boxes to do what I need to do.  The EDP can certainly do all those things much more directly (especially with a super-duper MIDI command center under your feet) and probably better than they could be done with another looping unit, but that doesn't mean that they don't share capabilities.

I don't really use most of the features of the EDP, and I've never gigged with mine.  I've found working with the other, simpler, boxes is usually more than enough for what I do.  I keep promising myself to spend some serious time woodshedding with the EDP so that I can feel comfortable with it, but I haven't really had a chance.

   Kevin

--
-------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Goldsmith                          kevin@unitcircle.com
Unit Circle Media                   http://www.unitcircle.com
--

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SHUT UP WITH YOUR CRAZY MOON LANGUAGE!

Andre LaFosse wrote:

> Now I'm curious: how would things like unrounded multiply, 8th-quantized
> substitute, or SUS-insert be done on a Repeater/DL4/JamMan/Boomerang?
>
> --Andre

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 13 20:55:12 2002
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Not even a mention of it on the Korg site, so my feeling is that it's
probably far away.

Kevin Goldsmith wrote:

> wasn't this supposed to be out already?
>
>    Kevin
>
> P.S. I know just like the Surface One...
>
> --
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> Kevin Goldsmith                          kevin@unitcircle.com
> Unit Circle Media                   http://www.unitcircle.com
> --

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 13 21:08:48 2002
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> Andre LaFosse wrote:
>
>> Now I'm curious: how would things like unrounded multiply, 
>> 8th-quantized
>> substitute, or SUS-insert be done on a Repeater/DL4/JamMan/Boomerang?
>>
>> --Andre

Clearly very carefully…

Mark

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 13 21:10:36 2002
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Huh, I think you're contradicting yourself.  Any digital device is going to
have SOME latency.  It's the nature of the beast.  I think your brain starts
being able to decern separate events (known in the effects world as doubling)
at around 20 ms.  Shorter than that and it's perceived as phase distortion.  If
you're telling me that when you put it in your effect loop and don't turn dry
mute off, you just get a "very slightly flanged/phased" then you're saying the
Repeater has a very low latency.  The lack of crispness is that this type of
phase distortion acts like a comb filter due to destructive interference.  If
this is what you're getting, I won't waste my time testing the Repeater, it's
good enough for me.

I don't have numbers, but I wonder what is considered "real" time in a
processor?  My guitar signal quickly becomes a 24 bit digital signal, gets
messed with, then reconverted into an analog signal.  I wonder how long those
conversions take?  I just realized that this happens as much as 3 times during
it's life span!  Where are these lost milliseconds going?  Will I ever get them
back?  Have I been raped by DSP technology?

Mark Sottilaro

Clifford Novey wrote:

> It's not like a flanger fx box but it is definitely there- every time I
> forget to dry mute (Rptr on Aux of mixer) I realise it within a short while-
> it just doesent sound as crisp and very slightly flanged/phased- and as soon
> as I dry mute it is quite a relief. Maybe it is just an amount that some
> people hear and are bothered by and others are not-
>
> As for delay when I use it in line- I adjust and more or less get used to
> it- but the moment I remove it  or play on another rig without a Repeater in
> line it is obvious- plug direct into your amp and play for a short while-
> then plug through
> the Repeater- it just doesent feel the same at all to me-
> The best comparison I can make is like if you usually play through a lot of
> effects or sub par amp and one day you get a tube amp and all of the sudden
> there is an immediacy and feel that you don't normally have- a stronger
> connection to the act of playing is the result for me anyway-
>
> Cliff
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Sottilaro" <sine@zerocrossing.net>
> To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 3:12 PM
> Subject: Re: Loopers-Delight-d Digest V02 #352
>
> >
> >
> > Jonathan El-Bizri wrote:
> >
> > > What OS are you running?
> > >
> > > I've frequently forgotten to turn on dry mute, since the signal is just
> > > comes out louder from my rig with it on mine, no flanging or delay.
> >
> > I echo this finding. (all pun intended)  If there were latency issues, it
> would
> > clearly show up in this situation as bad flanging or at the very worst a
> bad
> > doubling.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> >

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 13 21:19:46 2002
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You might want to consider recording the pulsing part first beforehand
and leave the volume down.  It then defines the length of the loop.  You
could then build on top of it with either ambient or more rhythmic
parts.  

 -Bill

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In a message dated 6/13/02 5:56:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
kflint@loopers-delight.com writes:


> http://www.harmony-central.com/Newp/2002/LoopIV-Upgrade.html
> 

congrats kim.....michael

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 6/13/02 5:56:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kflint@loopers-delight.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">http://www.harmony-central.com/Newp/2002/LoopIV-Upgrade.html<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
congrats kim.....michael</FONT></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 13 23:15:02 2002
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From: "petr" <pepetr@yahoo.com>
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Subject: Gig - Minneapolis - This Sunday
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 21:13:29 -0600
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I will be providing real time looping based music this Sunday at 10
AM, during the Sunday Service at the First Universalist Church of
Minneapolis.  I am using electric guitar, sitar, found instruments,
EDP, etc.

First Universalist Church of Minneapolis
http://www.firstuniv.org/
3400 Dupont Avenue South
Minneapolis
(612) 825-1701

petr dolak samojsky
www.geocities.com/pepetr
http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/229/petr_dolak_samojsky.html


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 13 23:16:04 2002
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Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 23:16:03 -0400
Subject: Re:kaos Pad II
From: Steve Sandberg <stevesandberg@earthlink.net>
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I had a salesman from Manny's Music call Korg up to find out when the Kaos
Pad II will be released, and the people at Korg said July.
So let's see . . .

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 13 23:53:29 2002
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Subject: Anyone know how to contact Gary Hall and/or Larry 'O'?
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 20:51:57 -0700
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I am trying to reach Gary Hall and Larry 'O' (from Electronic
Musician).........

It is important that I contact them ASAP...............can anyone help me
out with their respective
e-mail addresses..............I promise what I'm going to contact them with
will delight them...........trust me.

yours, gratefully (in advance)  Rick Walker (loop.pool)





From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 14 00:12:12 2002
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Wow a church with a sound track that cool might bring me back into the fray!

At 09:13 PM 6/13/2002 -0600, you wrote:
>I will be providing real time looping based music this Sunday at 10
>AM, during the Sunday Service at the First Universalist Church of
>Minneapolis.  I am using electric guitar, sitar, found instruments,
>EDP, etc.
>
>First Universalist Church of Minneapolis
>http://www.firstuniv.org/
>3400 Dupont Avenue South
>Minneapolis
>(612) 825-1701
>
>petr dolak samojsky
>www.geocities.com/pepetr
>http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/229/petr_dolak_samojsky.html

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Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 21:10:54 -0700
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From: Kim Flint <kflint@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Re: ambient then rhythmic?
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At 05:50 PM 6/13/2002, Kevin Goldsmith wrote:
> >Now I'm curious: how would things like unrounded multiply, 8th-quantized
> >substitute, or SUS-insert be done on a Repeater/DL4/JamMan/Boomerang?
> >
>Unrounded multiply == Shorten loop, this can't be done on all loopers, but 
>it can be done on the repeater

Sorry, that is not correct. Unrounded Multiply is not really equal to 
"shorten loop". It is a lot more powerful than that. Unrounded multiply 
lets you multiply a loop by an arbitrary amount, set by where you tap the 
start and ending points. It can be shorter or longer than the original. 
While you are creating this new-sized loop, you can simultaneously overdub 
in real time. This means you could create a new loop that is .87x of the 
original, or 3.4x of the original, or whatever you want. Over the top of it 
you could then have a new overdub of this new length. Since you can start 
at any point of your original loop, you can effectively create a new 
startpoint of your loop.

The original question was about how to start with an ambient loop, and then 
evolve it into a rhythmical loop where the rhythm may not match up with the 
initial loop length. This is precisely the reason why we invented the 
Unrounded Multiply in the EDP, because this is a very common need.

The great thing about it is you don't even need to pay attention to the 
loop lengths at all as you are creating this. So for example, you start off 
creating your ambient loop however you like, creating some texture and 
overdubbing on it or whatever. Maybe it's 5 seconds maybe 8, whatever - 
it's ambient. Then gradually as you create it, some point in the loop 
begins to feel like the "beginning", and that is the point where you want 
to start something more rhythmic. This may have no relation at all to the 
actual startpoint of the loop, but it doesn't matter. At the point where 
you want to start the rhythmic section, you tap Multiply and start playing 
the new part. Again, you don't need to pay any attention to loop lengths, 
just your playing. When you reach the end of your rhythmic bit where you 
want to set the end of the loop, you simply tap Record. Now you have a new 
loop that is the length of your rhythmic phrase, with however much of the 
original ambient bed repeated under it as happened to fit in that space. 
This is a very easy and organic thing to do.

and no, the Repeater does not have a function like this, and neither does 
any other looper.

In LoopIV, we've opened up new possibilities with Unrounded Multiplies, 
where it has become an important part of doing LoopWindowing and granular 
loops.


>8th Quantized Substitute == overdub rhythmically (really replace 
>rhythmically, but lets say overdub because it produces a similar if not 
>the exact effect).  I've done this on the repeater, DL4, Headrush and 
>Boomerang, I don't own a JamMan, but I've seen it done there too.

again, you are not understanding the function. The notion of "quantized" 
control versus free or "unquantized" control of loop functions is unique to 
Loop and the Echoplex, which is the only device that lets you choose. The 
repeater does not have any such concept. It's functions are either 
quantized or not, and you do not have a choice. Same with all other 
loopers. I find the Repeater tends towards quantizing the control actions, 
since it tends to be aimed more towards dance music production where 
precise rhythm is important. Most other loopers only have unquantized 
action, where functions always happen immediately. This tends to work 
better in ambient loops, but can be a problem when you want the tight 
rhythmic accuracy. The EDP lets you work either way.

In LoopIV we have expanded the quantizing possibilities in some really 
interesting ways. It used to be in LoopIII that having quantize on only 
forced control actions to happen at the next cycle boundary. (in EDP-speak 
the cycle is the basic initial loop length set by Recording the loop, using 
multiply or insert lets you create longer loops that consist of multiple 
cycles.)

LoopIV now has two new values for quantize, 8th and Loop. Quantize=Loop 
means that if you have multiplied the loop, any functions you do will wait 
until the next overall loop boundary instead of the next cycle. This can be 
really practical in use.

Quantize=8th is interesting because it lets you subdivide the cycles for 
the quantizing boundaries. It actually subdivides according to the 
8th/cycle parameter, so you can make it anything you want. The default for 
8th/cycle is 8, so normally it subdivides to 8th notes. You could just as 
easily set it to 4 for quarter notes, or 5 or 13 or whatever. What this 
does is precisely quantize any action you do to the next 8th boundary in 
the cycle. This lets you do interesting things like replace exactly one 8th 
note, for example. Or make sure reverse always starts exactly on the beat 
so that your loop doesn't fall out of rhythm while going in and out of 
reverse.

Above I think you are trying to imply that you just do the same thing 
manually, which is certainly possible. What you will find though is you can 
never be as precise as the machine (and maybe you don't want to be.)  Using 
quantize=8th is great when you do want that machine like precision. It is 
also great when working with very fast tempos, where trying to tap in and 
out of a function in exactly one 8th note is too difficult. The results of 
using this function can sound a lot like using a step sequencer, and it's a 
lot of fun.

The next confusion you have is over the functions Replace, Substitute, and 
Overdub. These functions have similarities, but they are not the same. 
Everybody knows overdub, that is where you play something and it is added 
on top of whatever is in the loop, and both new and old remain. Replace is 
a very immediate function, where the current loop audio immediately drops 
out when it is pressed, and whatever you play during that time replaces 
what was there. Only the new thing remains.

Substitute is another new function in LoopIV, and is also unavailable in 
any other looper. Substitute is similar to replace, except the current 
audio in the loop doesn't disappear while you are playing the new bit. You 
still hear the existing stuff as you play, which can be very useful for 
maintaining the feel, or giving a sense of continuity to the listener. Then 
on the *next* repetition, the old stuff is gone and only the new stuff 
remains in the period where the Substitute was done. The result is like 
Replace, but getting there has a feeling of evolving rather than the more 
jarring and sudden action of Replace.

When Andre talks about using Substitute with Quantize=8th, this is how he 
is creating a lot of his tracks that have that step-sequencer feel to them. 
On the fly he can drop in 8th note length fragments of whatever he is 
playing into the loop, ending up with what sounds like a sequence of 8th 
note long sample fragments. As he plays his guitar, he simply taps 
Substitute to grab out an 8th note fragment into the loop. Because the EDP 
is precisely maintaining the 8th note boundaries, he can easily grab exact 
8th notes without much effort, and the result is a very tight rhythmic loop 
that remains tight no matter how much substituting and replacing he does.


>I haven't gotten my LoopIV upgrade yet, so I don't remember what 
>SUS-Insert does, but if you remind me I can describe how to do it for you.

Insert has always been a part of the Echoplex, and is also unique to the 
Echoplex. No other looper has an Insert function. Insert lets you insert 
new material into the loop, increasing the length of the loop in the 
process, all in real time. It is just like multiply in that it works with 
cycles, inserting in increments of the cycle length. So for example if you 
had a 1 bar loop, you could insert 3 more bars of new material and end up 
with a 4 bar loop. The difference between Insert and Multiply is that 
Multiply repeats the original material under you as you increase the 
length, while Insert does not.

And like Multiply, Insert can also be used Unrounded. So you could tap 
Insert and play for 2 and a half cycles, then tap Record to end the Insert 
without rounding off to the next cycle boundary. The result would be a loop 
3 and a half cycles long, that consists of the audio from the initial cycle 
plus the 2 and a half bars of new material that you played.

With LoopIV, this is what gets us to "SUS-Insert". SUS-Insert is a part of 
what we call Real-Time Granular Looping. SUS is short for Sustain, and 
means that a function is active only while you have a button pressed, and 
stops when you release it. With SUS-Insert and SUS-Multiply, the functions 
start when you press the button down, and does an unrounded ending when you 
release it. So the loop length is redefined by the function.

Since the function is only active while the button is pressed, a light tap 
on the button means you can literally activate the function for the few 
milliseconds of time during while the switch is actually contacting. The 
real-time OS of the EDP is easily able to respond to function commands at 
that speed, since it guarantees a very short latency of 1.5ms for any 
action. This means you can create loops that are made up of many tiny 
fragments of sound that you pull out of real-time playing, ending up with 
something that sounds completely different - Granular.

Of course there are many other applications of this, depending on how long 
you press the button changes the results completely. Combining it with the 
quantizing functions means you can get very precise rhythms out of it. etc 
etc. We really have no idea! Certainly we never imagined the things Andre 
is now creating with these ideas, and I'm really looking forward to what 
the rest of you might do with it. It's brand new territory.

and again, these are all completely unique to LoopIV. Nothing else does 
anything like it.



>Note: I'm not against the EDP, heck I own one.  But I've done a lot of 
>experimenting with other boxes to do what I need to do.  The EDP can 
>certainly do all those things much more directly (especially with a 
>super-duper MIDI command center under your feet) and probably better than 
>they could be done with another looping unit, but that doesn't mean that 
>they don't share capabilities.

No, that really is not correct. A very large amount of the functionality of 
the EDP simply does not exist anywhere else. That is especially true with 
LoopIV. Once you get past the beginner level functions, the EDP goes off in 
a very different direction than other loopers, like say the Repeater. (or 
you could think of it as the Repeater going off in a different direction 
from the EDP.) I find those two have very little in common at all, which is 
why you see so many people owning both. Boxes like the RC-20, DL-4, 
Headrush, etc, really don't even go past what we think of as the beginner 
functions on the edp. With those, even beginner looping stuff like feedback 
control is not even implemented, as you can see people scratching their 
heads over in another thread.


>I don't really use most of the features of the EDP, and I've never gigged 
>with mine.  I've found working with the other, simpler, boxes is usually 
>more than enough for what I do.  I keep promising myself to spend some 
>serious time woodshedding with the EDP so that I can feel comfortable with 
>it, but I haven't really had a chance.

Well, I think that is the trick. What you have done with the EDP so far is 
probably just scratching the surface. That is why you are not realizing how 
much power is there and how much further beyond some of those other boxes 
it really goes. Spend some time with it, I think you will discover a lot!

kim



______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 14 00:25:14 2002
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k,

>sorry, I had to do the horn-tooting thing. it's always fun to see the press
>release actually appear in the press!
toot away, dude.
y'all deserve more than we can offer for that LoopIV and the continuing 
development of the EDP.
best,
dt / splattercell

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 14 00:32:56 2002
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dmiller3@columbus.rr.com writes:

>I'm surprised that they left the unnecessary nasty language in the 
>published press release.
sorry that you found some of my language -(not kim's, not matthias', etc)- 
nasty/unnecessary; next time, i'll tone it down a bit. i got excited; silly 
me.
best,
dt / splattercell
imi-ibi

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 14 00:35:20 2002
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Subject: granular looping
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i'd really like to hear some examples of this!

jon

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Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 22:36:19 -0700
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dt tends to express himself in an artful way--duck before f**k--
I think he's probably got good reason to be excited
I look forward to being overwhelmed by possibilities (like it wasn't bad
enough already)
Gary
PS  I do hope good things come to those who have poured so much love into
this concept
G


dmiller3@columbus.rr.com writes:

>I'm surprised that they left the unnecessary nasty language in the
>published press release.
sorry that you found some of my language -(not kim's, not matthias', etc)-
nasty/unnecessary; next time, i'll tone it down a bit. i got excited; silly
me.
best,
dt / splattercell
imi-ibi

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Subject: Re: Anyone know how to contact Gary Hall and/or Larry 'O'?
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Hi Rick-

I have Gary's card here.  His e-mail address is garyshall@aol.com .  I 
don't know how to get ahold of Larry.

-Hans

P.S.  I'll be in San Jose all next week for work.   Do you know of anything 
going on there or in Santa Cruz that might be worth checking out?


At 20:51 13/06/2002, you wrote:
>I am trying to reach Gary Hall and Larry 'O' (from Electronic
>Musician).........
>
>It is important that I contact them ASAP...............can anyone help me
>out with their respective
>e-mail addresses..............I promise what I'm going to contact them with
>will delight them...........trust me.
>
>yours, gratefully (in advance)  Rick Walker (loop.pool)


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How embarrassing....  Please disregard.  Sorry everybody (especially Gary).

-Hans


At 22:53 13/06/2002, you wrote:
>Hi Rick-
>
>I have Gary's card here.  His e-mail address is garyshall@aol.com .  I 
>don't know how to get ahold of Larry.
>
>-Hans
>
>P.S.  I'll be in San Jose all next week for work.   Do you know of 
>anything going on there or in Santa Cruz that might be worth checking out?
>
>
>At 20:51 13/06/2002, you wrote:
>>I am trying to reach Gary Hall and Larry 'O' (from Electronic
>>Musician).........
>>
>>It is important that I contact them ASAP...............can anyone help me
>>out with their respective
>>e-mail addresses..............I promise what I'm going to contact them with
>>will delight them...........trust me.
>>
>>yours, gratefully (in advance)  Rick Walker (loop.pool)
>


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Hedewa7@aol.com wrote:

> sorry that you found some of my language -(not kim's, not matthias', etc)-
> nasty/unnecessary; next time, i'll tone it down a bit. 

The obscenity didn't phase me, but the merciless repetition of "dude"
was a heinous assault upon my psyche, from which I am still struggling
to recover.

In jest,

--Andre

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skincage wrote:
 
> i'd really like to hear some examples of this!

Here are a few granular-related things I've done; you can specifically
hear it in the very beginnings of each track:

http://shoko.calarts.edu/~altruist/generator.mp3
http://www.altruistmusic.com/soundfiles/insinuation.mp3
http://www.altruistmusic.com/ram/ttgtr2.ram
http://www.altruistmusic.com/ram/ttgtr3.ram

All of these examples are using the Insert=SUS and Unrounded Multiply
functions in conjunction with the Stutter Interface mode.  What happens
is that I play a semi-random collection of sounds into the EDP, and then
use quick taps of the SUS-Insert button (sometimes a scant millisecond
or two) to "stretch" the length of the loop.  I do this until I start to
hear a specific sound I like, and then I use that new loop as the
launching point for building up a piece.

In the last two examples (which are RealAudio streams), I use it to take
an initial arhythmic loop and "sculpt" it until it has some discernable
rhythm.  Both of these streams are (very!) extended improvs, and at
various points within I start redefining the length of the loop again,
still using Insert=SUS and Unrounded Multiply in Stutter mode, to break
out of the previous loop's rhythmic basis.  Then I "re-sculpt" the loop
until I get a new rhythmic feel I like, and go from there. 
Conceptually, it's the equivalent of a DJ cross-fading from one record
to another.

This is only one application of the granular approach, and a pretty
obscure one at that.  There are a lot of other possibilities to play
with, and I'm really looking forward to hearing what other people come
up with.

OK,

--Andre LaFosse
http://www.altruistmusic.com

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Thanks Dennis

> Another technique is to perform a live spectral analysis then do a
>  resynthesis on the result.  But between the two, you scale the frequency.
>  This also preserves the formant structure of the sound so you don't get the
>  "Mickey Mouse" effect.

Is that how the "popular" Antares autotune does it's stuff?

>  On my Kyma system I observe about a 68 millisecond
>  delay with this technique.

Which is way too long.
Guess you have to have a delay long enough at least for
half a waveform of the lowest note in the range (maybe
a whole waveform?)

andy

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andre, thanks for the quick response! this is just what i needed to cool out as i just gave
myself a nasty blast of noise via headphones and  cable accident. oddly, the first 8 seconds
or so of "insinuation" sound a LOT like the looping glitch of a circuit-bent speak and spell!
it's almost uncanny. fun, fun stuff. this is the kind of stuff i've always done with software
and wanted to do live without buying an  ibook or something. it's encouraging to hear this
kind of stuff come out of a rack unit. bravo.

i love software looping and i'm enjoying repeater (though i'll like it more when the pitch
knob is replaced) but the more of this stuff i hear the more i realize that one of these days
i'm going to have to russle up the cash for an edp.

thanks!

jon/skincage


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> >Now I'm curious: how would things like unrounded multiply, 8th-quantized
>  >substitute, or SUS-insert be done on a Repeater/DL4/JamMan/Boomerang?
>  >
>  Unrounded multiply == Shorten loop, this can't be done on all loopers, but 
> it can be done on the repeater

or extend length of loop without being restricted to a length
which is a whole no. of the old length (Repeater can't do in one step).

This can also be done with a JamMan in Delay mode, although the effect
is different as you still build up overdubs on the short length of loop while
defining the long loop length.
.....unfortunatly you almost always get a click when you do this. 

>  
>  8th Quantized Substitute == overdub rhythmically (really replace 
> rhythmically, but lets say overdub because it produces a similar if not the 
> exact effect).  I've done this on the repeater, DL4, Headrush and 
Boomerang, 
> I don't own a JamMan, but I've seen it done there too.

...well..er...not quite.
The 8th Quantised Sub (or Replace) that Andre likes so much 
is a special feature designed to do something unique.
Basically you replace sections of loop, but you do it a
single beat at a time. 
The easiest way is to play sustained notes, then (with the
correct setup) each single short press of a button transfers a small section
of that note into the loop. You get to decide how many chunks 
you divide the loop into.
By the time you've replaced most of the "beats" in the loop
this way you have a sound reminiscent of an analog step 
sequencer, perfectly in time with the loop length.

This effect is just possible in Loop3, but much harder to do.

Perhaps I should do a demo that makes this obvious. 

>  
>  I haven't gotten my LoopIV upgrade yet, so I don't remember what 
SUS-Insert 
> does, but if you remind me I can describe how to do it for you.

I don't think any other looper ever had an Insert function at all.

Andre has this new technique to repeat small sections of the loop, which 
then stay in the loop (loop gets longer).
This depends on a new Interface Mode called Stutter Mode.


The EDP Loop4  does loads of new stuff, 
we haven't had time to find a fraction of all the new
tricks that are going to be possible.

andy butler


 

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> From: Andre LaFosse
> Here are a few granular-related things I've done


far out and wildly enjoyable stuff Andre ... I wish I could have seen these
performances ...


= michael peters
= www.mp3.com/veloopity



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Subject: re: ambient vs rhythmic
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>>>
8th Quantized Substitute == overdub rhythmically (really replace
rhythmically, but lets say overdub because it produces a similar if not the
exact effect).<<<

similar perhaps, in some contexts, but drastically different in others -
what happens if you want to drop in silence, or something much much quieter
than the existing loop? any overdub function is going to be lacking there,
you need a replace function. the JamMan does it in replace mode, and I'm
looking forward to getting that same in/out style replace function on Loop
IV (at the moment, I use the replace function by holding the insert button
down, but it does mean that all the replaced bits are of at a certain
length.) - the granulated replace thing on loop IV sounds like a great
addition... 

with the new half speed on Loop IV, is it possible to record in half speed
from the off, and then double it, ala DL4????

Earlier this week I had two days in the studio recording material for my
next completely solo album - still all recorded 'live' just in the studio
instead of an audience. Having a LOT of fun with the EDP - this is my first
recording with it, and it's really opened up a lot of possibilities...

cheers

Steve 
www.steve-lawson.co.uk
www.pillowmountainrecords.co.uk 

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Subject: insert mode...
From: Steve Lawson <steve@steve-lawson.co.uk>
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so there he sits, the s'man reading about loop IV imagining all the great
things that can be done, when he realises in his down-homey way that much is
still unexplored in loop III, so he says to himself,

'I really must stop referring to myself in the third person in the style of
le WWF and instead go and explore the insert mode on my EDP'...

so off he goes, and in so doing discovers the rather fabulous reverse and
replace modes! previously all reversing had been done using the undo button
after pressing the parameter switch - not ideal for fast reversal etc...
now, new vistas are opening! same goes for the instant replace function,
requiring only that a down-homey be-mulletted dude-foot be placed onto the
pedal for stuff to be recorded, replacing the original loop, thus
revolutionising one of the pieces I recorded at the weekend, and justifying
my decision to go back into the studio for round II in a couple of weeks
time. 

ah, the moral of the story? must read manuals more thoroughly... suddenly, a
little more of Andre's alchemical soul-selling EDP mastery has been
uncovered in North London. soon I'll be shaving my head and moving to SoCal,
and the transition will be complete!

steve


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In a message dated 6/14/02 4:11:14 AM, kflint@loopers-delight.com writes:

<< Now you have a new 
loop that is the length of your rhythmic phrase, with however much of the 
original ambient bed repeated under it as happened to fit in that space. 
This is a very easy and organic thing to do. >>

Does this mean, then, that the "under" loops are now truncated to the new 
rythmic loop?  Or, as I had interpreted the desired result of original 
question,  will the "under" loops float about independantly under this new 
rythmn? - Paul

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Jonathan El-Bizri schrieb am ÒRe: Loopers-Delight-d Digest V02 #352Ó.
[2002/06/13Don 20:56]

> What OS are you running?
> 
> I've frequently forgotten to turn on dry mute, since the signal is just
> comes out louder from my rig with it on mine, no flanging or delay.
> 



hi,

that does sound incredible. 
I am running OS 1.10 and when I do not activate the dry mute a nasty phase 
cancellation/flanging-type sound is clearly heard. hmmmmm

best, Andreas

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At 02:17 AM 6/14/2002, Steve Lawson wrote:
>ah, the moral of the story? must read manuals more thoroughly... suddenly, a
>little more of Andre's alchemical soul-selling EDP mastery has been
>uncovered in North London. soon I'll be shaving my head and moving to SoCal,
>and the transition will be complete!

Steve,

the shaved-head-LA thing is so over. Just shave part of it. The 
possibilities are vast.

kim



______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com

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Thanks Kim, this one is going into the saved folder for future
reference.
Cliff

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kim Flint [mailto:kflint@loopers-delight.com]
> Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 9:11 PM
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Subject: Re: ambient then rhythmic?
> 


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 14 07:03:25 2002
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At 01:32 AM 6/14/2002, Steve Lawson wrote:
>with the new half speed on Loop IV, is it possible to record in half speed
>from the off, and then double it, ala DL4????

yes. then what you play comes out twice as fast. This is a great way to 
pretend you are the fastest player in the world.

Also, you can go in and out of Half Speed while overdubbing, which is a 
great way to put nifty octave jumps into the loop. Half Speed is alive all 
of the time, you can do it whenever you want. It also works in conjunction 
with sync to external devices, which is also fun.

kim



______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com

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I actually found it offensive, but I guess it is
just a sign of the times.
<><


--- Gary Lehmann
<healthquestrecruiter@earthlink.net> wrote:
> dt tends to express himself in an artful
> way--duck before f**k--
> I think he's probably got good reason to be
> excited
> I look forward to being overwhelmed by
> possibilities (like it wasn't bad
> enough already)
> Gary
> PS  I do hope good things come to those who
> have poured so much love into
> this concept
> G
> 
> 
> dmiller3@columbus.rr.com writes:
> 
> >I'm surprised that they left the unnecessary
> nasty language in the
> >published press release.
> sorry that you found some of my language -(not
> kim's, not matthias', etc)-
> nasty/unnecessary; next time, i'll tone it down
> a bit. i got excited; silly
> me.
> best,
> dt / splattercell
> imi-ibi
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
http://launch.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 14 07:52:13 2002
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From: David Beardsley <db@biink.com>
Subject: new mimcrotonal mp3 file
To: "Looper's Delight Mailing List" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>,
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Clouds Obscure the Future
63-tone Just Intonation guitar. Recorded 4.10.2002, NYC 

http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/200/david_beardsley1.html


* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>Clouds Obscure the Future</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><!--StartFragment --><FONT face=Arial size=2>63-tone Just Intonation 
guitar. Recorded 4.10.2002, NYC</FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><A 
href="http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/200/david_beardsley1.html">http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/200/david_beardsley1.html</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>* David Beardsley<BR>* <A 
href="http://biink.com">http://biink.com</A><BR>* <A 
href="http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley">http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley</A></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

--Boundary_(ID_3aLob0ZBSEJvEfsi+284aQ)--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 14 08:30:58 2002
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Subject: Understanding the EDP Manual
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 07:29:54 -0500
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I recently finished reading my entire EDP manual and although I find it
facinating what you can do with this thing, I feel I am more confused
than ever.  First, there are so many options such as quantize=??, etc.
without any explanations about which option is better or worse for
specific situations or which option should most likely be default.  I
kind of get the impression that its good to consider changing these
options (somehow) on the fly depending on the situation, but how is this
done in a live setting ... Do you stop and begin pressing the buttons on
the front of the unit?  I know the buttons on the EDP footpedal can't
control these parameters.  How do most EDP users control these
parameters live, or do they just set them and forget them?  If they are
typically setup in advance for a specific type of playing or style of
music, is there a recommended list that I can follow to get my EDP set
up the way most people have theirs?  And keep in mind, this is just Loop
III ...

I know a lot of this will come with practice, but it would sure be nice
to find some short cuts, or guidlines so I can get to where I want to be
without spending too much time in trial and error.  The manual is fine
for providing a description of each parameter but there isn't anything
in the way of how to really use it.

Thanks,
Steve

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 14 08:46:49 2002
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altruist@earthlink.net writes:

>The obscenity didn't phase me, but the merciless repetition of "dude"
>was a heinous assault upon my psyche, from which I am still struggling
>to recover.
oh.
dude.
best,
daoud / splatt
imi-ibi

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 PMimlitsch@aol.com writes:

>Does this mean, then, that the "under" loops are now truncated to the new
>rythmic loop? 
yes.
 
>Or, as I had interpreted the desired result of original
>question,  will the "under" loops float about independantly under this
>new rythmn?
correct me if i'm wrong, here, but you'd need a second *independent* device 
for that..... 
best,
dt / splattercell
imi-ibi

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Subject: Re: Insightful Obscenity (Over the LoopIV--In the News)
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In a message dated 6/14/2002 7:26:50 AM, robert_deveaux@yahoo.com writes:
>I actually found it offensive, but I guess it is
>just a sign of the times.
public note to kim:
if you think that my natural-speech-LoopIV-quote is too offensive, somehow, 
please feel free to change my phrase 'fuck-with-it' to 'muck-with-it' or 
'diddle-with-it', if you like.
sign of the times, indeed.
best,
dt / splattercell

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 14 09:49:14 2002
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Hi Mark,
    I recently got the GNX3 and so far I love it!  It is not an EDP or a 
Repeater but the 8-track recorder allows you to record 8-tracks or loops 
which can be recorded using the foot pedals.  It works as a looper or as an 
8-track recorder but so far I have only explored looping.  I record a blank 
first track for the length of whatever piece I want to perform and create my 
loops from there.  The unit has some decent presets and in stompbox mode 
allows some realtime effects tweaking via the footpedal. I am on vacation 
next week and hope to dig into this pedal more, so far I am pleased with it. 
  Currently I don't use any floor effects when playing live with a band 
other than a Roland GR-33 but I was looking for something to use with a solo 
act and I felt the GNX3 could do it.  I will try and write a small review 
next week after I've had some time to play with it.

Thanks,
Weg


From: Mark Sottilaro <sine@zerocrossing.net>
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Subject: Effects on the floor? ( was Re: Lexi MPX1)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 11:05:19 -0700
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FILETIME=[366220C0:01C21305]

I saw mine for that price while picking up MIDI cables at Guitar Center, but 
I
bet any big music retailer would match that price.

My floor is officially full up.  I can't put another pedal on it.  I'm 
actually
toying with the idea of getting rid of my Digitech 2120, because with the
Control 1, it takes up a big chunk of floor space, as well as two rack 
spaces.
I know it get's a bad rap for some reason, but I actually really like that
box.  I think the key to getting a good sound out of it is not going into a
guitar amp afterwards, but into a pair of full range speakers, but I 
digress...

Is there something really hot that lives on the floor?  Something like the
Digitech GNX3?  Anyone have it here?  It seems to have nice looping
posibilites.  Korg AX100?  I love my (now dormant) AX30, but it needs a nice
preamp after it to sound beefy.

Mark Sottilaro

Bill Cummings wrote:

 > Mark,
 > who's blowing them out for that price? Also, have you checked out the
 > Lexicon MPXR1 MIDI Remote Controller? they look like they were made for 
each
 > other
 >
 > ----- Original Message -----
 > From: "Mark Sottilaro" <sine@zerocrossing.net>
 > To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
 > Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 8:23 PM
 > Subject: Re: OT: Drum machines vs. Human beings
 >
 > > max valentino wrote:
 > >
 > > > One last thing.....I have also recently switched my processing around
 > now
 > > > favoring putting fx (which is now pretty much down to an M-One and
 > > > parametric eq) AFTER my looper; insuch processing the loops instead 
of
 > > > looping the fx.  Using timed delays, and detuned delays, this creates
 > some
 > > > very interesting polyrhytms whic can be "undone" by simply switching
 > back to
 > > > the original fx program (or to an different one).  Just curious about
 > how
 > > > many of you are setting up fx and loop mangling....
 > > > sorry about the length....
 > > > Max
 > >
 > > This is exactly what I've been doing with the Repeater and the Lexicon
 > MPX1.
 > > It's in the Repeater effects loop, usually set to be on the loop, 
instead
 > of
 > > the input.  This means what I play is dry, until it hits the first
 > iteration of
 > > the loop.  Very nice.  The MPX1 has an A/B button similar to the 
Vortex,
 > where
 > > I set the A to Mix=0% and the B=100%.  Then I set the rate of change to
 > "50" (I
 > > have no idea what this coorasponds to, but it gives a nice gradule 
change
 > from
 > > dry to wet and back again)
 > >
 > > One of my favorite patches is a factory preset that initates a looped
 > delay
 > > based on midi clock.  When you hit the a/b button, it grabs a smaller
 > chunk of
 > > my Repeater loop.  Picking weird times to hit the button can give 
really
 > > intereseting results, and you can go back to your loop by hitting the 
a/b
 > > again.
 > >
 > > The MPX1 has been discontinued, so they're blowing them out for $425.  
Not
 > bad
 > > for a box that sold for $700
 > >
 > > Mark
 > >
 > >


_________________________________________________________________
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> > Another technique is to perform a live spectral analysis then do a
> >  resynthesis on the result.  But between the two, you scale the
frequency.
> >  This also preserves the formant structure of the sound so you don't get
the
> >  "Mickey Mouse" effect.
>
> Is that how the "popular" Antares autotune does it's stuff?

I couldn't say about that 'cause I'm not familiar with the Antares.

>
> >  On my Kyma system I observe about a 68 millisecond
> >  delay with this technique.
>
> Which is way too long.

Yes, it's clearly audible!

> Guess you have to have a delay long enough at least for
> half a waveform of the lowest note in the range (maybe
> a whole waveform?)

And that is exactly what's going on.  You can adjust the lowest-freq to be
analyzed, which then determines the latency.  There are other parameters
that probably also affect the latency.

Dennis Leas
-------------------
dennis@mdbs.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 14 10:33:37 2002
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From: Scott Martin <coirbidh_99@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: ambient then rhythmic?
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Kim wrote:

>Substitute is another new function in LoopIV, and is
also unavailable in 
>any other looper. Substitute is similar to replace,
except the current 
>audio in the loop doesn't disappear while you are
playing the new bit. You 
>still hear the existing stuff as you play, which can
be very useful for 
>maintaining the feel, or giving a sense of continuity
to the listener. Then 
>on the *next* repetition, the old stuff is gone and
only the new stuff 
>remains in the period where the Substitute was done.
The result is like 
>Replace, but getting there has a feeling of evolving
rather than the more 
>jarring and sudden action of Replace.

Actually, Kim, the Repeater can perform this function
as well.  If you keep the Repeater in Overdub mode and
set Feedback to 0%, you will hear the original loop
material during overdubbing, but it will be completely
replaced by new material on the next pass.  The
Repeater also can be set to Replace, where current
material is muted during the overdub.  The Repeater
will not, however, automatically quantize your
overdubs, as the EDP will when using Substitute with
Quantize=8th.

I admit that, after hearing Andre's recent material, I
began to wonder if I hadn't made the wrong decision in
purchasing a Repeater instead of an EDP.  After
further thought, though, I realized that I haven't
spent sufficient time with the Repeater to fully
explore how I can use its unique capabilities to
produce a sound that's MINE, rather than a cheap
second-rate copy of Andre's (or DT's, or anyone
else's).  So off I go in search of my sound.  If I
make it back, maybe I'll even post the strange goodies
I found on my journey for public consumption. =)

Later,
Scott



=====
Scott Martin
coirbidh_99@yahoo.com

You can't make me think like you, mundane
-Incubus

__________________________________________________
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(Caution: some ranting follows...)

> I recently finished reading my entire EDP manual and although I find it
> facinating what you can do with this thing, I feel I am more confused
> than ever.  First, there are so many options such as quantize=??, etc.
> . . .

Yes!  The EDP Manual and Upgrade Manual is confusing.  That's because this
box is really, really, really deep.

When I mentioned that it is really more like an instrument than a piece of
equipment, that's part of the implications.

Loop IV provides *so* much real-time control that it is overwhelming,
especially if you try to wrap your head around everything it can do.

I don't think *anybody* will ever master it completely, in the sense of
understanding and doing everything that can be done with it.  Just like a
real instrument.  And we should celebrate!

The amount of real-time control that it provides reminds me of playing a
real instrument.  Most real instruments seem to have a near-infinite number
of ways to control them.  I can get a seemingly endless variety of sounds
from my congas.  Each little thing that I do, which part of the head I hit
with which part of my hand and how hard and what angle and how long before I
lift my hand and meanwhile, what about my other hand?  Yet somebody else's
playing sounds completely different!  I've heard that the guitar can also be
quite expressive. :)

You can likewise interact with Loop IV a *huge* number of ways.  I think the
current EDP manuals are like the owner's manuals you get with stuff.  It
says what each button does but not how to use them.  Necessary but not
sufficient.

And I'm not deprecating the quality of the current manuals.  I think they're
quite good.

I keep expecting something like a "Mel Bay's EDP" book.  You open it up and
it has a picture of the EDP with lines and arrows and little descriptive
blurbs.  It starts with short exercises and somewhere in the middle is a
looper version of "Michael Rowed the Boat Ashore."  Then the back page has
some quick guide info.

But really, several kinds of "Making Music with Your EDP" books or guides
would be quite handy.  I'd expect some type of compact notation for button
presses and modes would help a lot, also.  If we had something like that
maybe we could all easily contribute ideas.

It's also clear to me that the EDP has exhausted it's seven-button
interface.  To fully realize it's potential, we need some type of new
control surface.  I'm not sure exactly what it would look like but something
with lots of visual indicators.  In the meantime, a good MIDI pedalboard
will do.


Dennis Leas
-------------------
dennis@mdbs.com

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THAT would be offensive...



> In a message dated 6/14/2002 7:26:50 AM, robert_deveaux@yahoo.com writes:
> >I actually found it offensive, but I guess it is
> >just a sign of the times.
> public note to kim:
> if you think that my natural-speech-LoopIV-quote is too offensive, somehow, 
> please feel free to change my phrase 'fuck-with-it' to 'muck-with-it' or 
> 'diddle-with-it', if you like.
> sign of the times, indeed.
> best,
> dt / splattercell
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 14 11:39:53 2002
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i've been thinking about this a bit lately.
a common notation would be very useful.
the need to extend the foot pedal will complicate this, but
i think if we started with a simple notation, then we could extend it 
to include midi commands later.

i have found many great conga patterns online written in an ascii code.
this allows users to post them easily.
this probably wouldn't work too well with pitched material, but it might 
work along with "normal" staff notation.

or maybe a second staff for button presses similar to guitar tab notation...

i also think it would be wonderful if some composers took 
enough interest in this to write etudes. 
i am certainly not proficient enough with
the edp to do this yet, but maybe in the future...


> ...
> But really, several kinds of "Making Music with Your EDP" books or guides
> would be quite handy.  I'd expect some type of compact notation for button
> presses and modes would help a lot, also.  If we had something like that
> maybe we could all easily contribute ideas.
> 
> It's also clear to me that the EDP has exhausted it's seven-button
> interface.  To fully realize it's potential, we need some type of new
> control surface.  I'm not sure exactly what it would look like but something
> with lots of visual indicators.  In the meantime, a good MIDI pedalboard
> will do.
> 
> 
> Dennis Leas
> -------------------
> dennis@mdbs.com
> 

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Hello, I'm brand spanken new here.  I followed a link from Harmony Central 
to the EDP upgrade site yesterday.  I saw someone in a band use one of these 
before but he was doing pretty basic stuff with it so I didn't realize the 
versatility of the unit until I read up on it and listened to Andre 
Lafosse's sound clips.  I have to say I was blown away by them.  I've been 
experimenting with my DL-4 for a while but I reached it's limitations very 
quickly.  I'm very interested in getting a better unit to work with and 
looks like EPD is it.  I had no idea there was such a large community of 
people performing this kind of stuff.  I will be looking for more loop based 
music to listen to, if anyone could point me in a direction that would be 
much appreciated.  Thanks, Mark P



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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 14 13:34:34 2002
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Well, obviously I should RTFM before I open my mouth from now on.

thanks Kim,

    Kevin

P.S. although I'm still hoping for multiple different length loops in one unit, which is what the original question was about.  Currently no loopers do this, but the repeater would probably be the first with a new OS since it already supports multiple simultaneous loops.

--
-------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Goldsmith                          kevin@unitcircle.com
Unit Circle Media                   http://www.unitcircle.com
--

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In a message dated 6/14/02 1:18:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
mark_penner@hotmail.com writes:


> I will be looking for more loop based 
> music to listen to,

mark.....www.loopxchange.com  will give you some loops.....welcome and 
enjoy.....michael

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 6/14/02 1:18:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mark_penner@hotmail.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I will be looking for more loop based <BR>
music to listen to,</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
mark.....www.loopxchange.com&nbsp; will give you some loops.....welcome and enjoy.....michael</FONT></HTML>

--part1_122.12add4a5.2a3b8410_boundary--

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What I'll often do is use the AdrinaLinn with a step phaser or other slightly
rhythmic effect and watch the blinking LED of the drum machine (all drums
muted) or the Repeater.  This is usually enough to make an ambient drone with
some rhythmic elements.  When I start bringing in the drums, it's usually a
pretty smooth transition.

Mark Sottilaro



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According to the newest Electronic Musician magazine which has an article on latency (for computer recording), AD or DA takes 1.5 ms.  So assuming that the passthrough on the dry signal of the repeater doesn't actually do anything besides the digital conversion, you would have 3ms of latency from your original dry signal to the output of the repeater.  I assume however that the repeater probably does some processing for mixing the outputs and such which probably adds a few more ms of delay to the dry signal.  A good question would be to see how the inserts are handled in regards to the original signal, worst case is that there is another AD/DA step for the inserts even if there is nothing plugged into them.  If I had an oscilliscope, I'd try out all the signal routing possibilities for the repeater and measure the different latencies, however I'm sure that someone at Electrix has already done this and maybe we can get them to post to the list?

Sobered,

   Kevin

P.S. I don't use the repeater in my sends, I've always used it in a separate bus, so I haven't noticed this issue at all.

--
-------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Goldsmith                          kevin@unitcircle.com
Unit Circle Media                   http://www.unitcircle.com
--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 14 14:08:16 2002
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Hey kids, thought I'd fwd this to the group, as I've seen these ladies
perform, and there's all sorts of loopage and electronic mayhem.  I must
see, IMO.

Mark Sottilaro

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Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 22:49:58 -0700
From: Laetitia Sonami <laetitia@sonami.net>
Subject: Fwd: Pamela Z and Laetitia Sonami, June 14th
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>
>Pamela Z and Laetitia Sonami
>in performance
>
>Friday, June 14, 2002
>8 p.m.
>Angelico Concert Hall
>Dominican University of California in San Rafael
>Tickets: $10 at the door, general admission
>
>Join us for an evening of music and performance art with the Bay Area's own
>Pamela Z and Laetitia Sonami.  Combining music, poetry, theatre, and
>technology, these remarkable artists create unique and stunning work that
>has been featured at music festivals around the world.  A panel discussion
>with the performers will follow the concert.  For directions to Angelico
>Hall, go to: http://www.dominican.edu/campusandbeyond/directions.html
>
>Pamela Z: "...When Pamela Z takes the stage, she's mesmerizing. Her
>compelling stage presence and intense performance style are part of her
>pull, but it's more than that. As her use of digital delays shapes her
>strong, expressive voice into textured layers of sound, the combination of
>that technique with her original use of movement and odd musical
>instruments/props, enables Pamela Z to create evocative performances that
>have the ring of poetry." (SF Weekly)
>
>Laetitia Sonami: "Laetitia Sonami plays a unique instrument: the lady's
>glove. It's a sheer, elbow-length, left-handed glove with 16 pressure and
>motion sensors controlling electronic sounds. Alone onstage at the Kitchen
>on Wednesday night, she sometimes looked like a human antenna searching the
>air for sounds, or like a deity summoning earth-shaking rumbles with a
>brusque gesture. Her pieces are sparse but allusive. conjuring
>half-remembered dreams; they shimmer into earshot, glide and gradually
>evaporate." (The New York Times)
>
>For more information, phone (415) 437-0123 or e-mail <info@womensphil.org>.
>
>Presented by The Women's Philharmonic
>Supported in part by The National Endowment for the Arts, The San Francisco
>Arts Commission, The Helen F. Whitaker Fund, The Aaron Copland Fund for
>Music, Inc., and The Four Points by Sheraton San Rafael.

-- 
<http://www.sonami.net>

--------------70E72633F611ACD2687C17BA--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 14 14:15:11 2002
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Thanks for the heads up, Mark.   These women are fantastic, folks.  Artistic
AND entertaining.

Rik

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 14 14:16:51 2002
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I found your broad use of the English language to be most refreshing, at a
time when men with high moral rehtoric are raping the earth.  Perhaps if we
spent more time paying attention to words like fuck, and more to what's
actually happening to the world around us.

Mark Sottilaro


Hedewa7@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 6/14/2002 7:26:50 AM, robert_deveaux@yahoo.com writes:
> >I actually found it offensive, but I guess it is
> >just a sign of the times.
> public note to kim:
> if you think that my natural-speech-LoopIV-quote is too offensive, somehow,
> please feel free to change my phrase 'fuck-with-it' to 'muck-with-it' or
> 'diddle-with-it', if you like.
> sign of the times, indeed.
> best,
> dt / splattercell

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 14 14:56:34 2002
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> According to the newest Electronic Musician magazine which has an article
on
> latency (for computer recording), AD or DA takes 1.5 ms.
> . . .

I'll have to read the article but this does not seems correct.

For AD at a sampling frequency of 44.1 kHz, I'd expect a latency of 1 /
44100 or approx 22.7 microseconds.  I.e., you'll get a new sample point
every 22.7 microseconds.  Now you could buffer up a bunch of sample points
and output them later (producing latency), but they still being produced at
a rate of 44,100 per second.

Likewise for DA at 44.1 kHz.

My guess is that the EM article is not discussing a pure AD then DA process.

Dennis Leas
-------------------
dennis@mdbs.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 14 15:03:23 2002
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> This is only one application of the granular approach, and a pretty
> obscure one at that.  There are a lot of other possibilities to play
> with, and I'm really looking forward to hearing what other people come
> up with.
> 
> OK,
> 
> --Andre LaFosse
> http://www.altruistmusic.com

Hi Andre and all,

you devils made it - finally the fact that I cannot run mp3/real audio 
etc.etc. on my ancient 68K machine is driving me nuts and nowhere to 
run....no internet radio (hmm), product demos (oh, well), loopfest coverage 
(bad enough), no loop IV explorations (arghhhh) and now: no granular 
loopage to listen to! So please at least explain to this lost soul of the 
looping comunity: what de hell is GRANULAR LOOPING????? 

Save me a little peace of mind, Andreas :-)

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 14 15:06:12 2002
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Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 12:04:43 -0700
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From: Kim Flint <kflint@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Fwd: More SF Gig spam: ELECTRIC WORDS Festival June 20-29
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Amy X Neuburg sent this one to me, I think people here might be interested. 
 From the performers listed you can expect a lot of interesting looping and 
otherwise good music at these shows.


>***************************************
>Footloose and the San Francisco Electronic Music Festival invite you to:
>
>ELECTRIC WORDS
>A 6-day Festival of Voice, Text, & Electronic Music
>Thursdays to Saturdays June 20-22 and June 27-29
>All shows 8 PM
>Post-show reception on opening night
>
>Hosted by Amy X Neuburg & Pamela Z, and featuring performances by:
>Charles Amirkhanian, Joel Davel (with Don Buchla), Kyle Gann, Allison 
>Hennessy, Hmmm... (Herb Heinz & Mark Briggs), Eric Lyon, Silvia Matheus, 
>Amy X Neuburg, Amanda Piasecki, Dean Santomieri, Laetitia Sonami, Wobbly, 
>and Pamela Z.
>See full performance schedule below.
>
>Venue 9
>252 Ninth Street (between Folsom & Howard), San Francisco
>(Near Civic Center BART)
>
>Info/Reservations: 415-289-2000
>Tickets $10-15 sliding scale (per show)
>$25 for any 3 shows
>$40 for an all-show pass
>Advance tickets available through 
><http://www.ticketweb.com/user/?region=sfbay&query=schedule&venue=venue9>Ticketweb, 
>TIX on Union Square, or at Venue 9 one hour before curtain
>
>Additional info at <http://www.sfemf.org/electricwords.html>www.sfemf.org.
>
>*******************************************
>Footloose and The San Francisco Electronic Music Festival are proud to 
>co-produce this special event -- the first of its kind in the Bay Area. 
>ELECTRIC WORDS features 13 composers whose work centers on text and the 
>human voice -- sung, spoken, sampled and manipulated -- combined with 
>real-time and recorded electronics and an assortment of unusual instruments.
>
>Hosts/curators Amy X Neuburg and Pamela Z have chosen a diverse group of 
>well-known and emerging composer/performers, with works ranging from sound 
>art to art-rock to improv. The festival will present 3-4 artists per night 
>in different combinations, with different material at every performance 
>and a number of collaborations. There will also be informal on-stage 
>conversations, giving each artist a chance to discuss his or her work.
>
>Following is the schedule of performances (artists do not necessarily 
>appear in the order shown). For more info and a brief description of each 
>artist, please see <http://www.sfemf.org/electricwords.html>www.sfemf.org.
>
>*******************************************
>++THURSDAY JUNE 20 (hosted by Amy X):
>(Opening night reception following the show!)
>
>KYLE GANN
>     Excerpts from his one-man voice/electronic operas "Custer" and 
> "Sitting Bull"
>HMMM... (a.k.a. Herb Heinz & Mark Briggs, with guest performer Amy X)
>     Improvisations for voices, textures, beats, and the "Fudgie," with 
> improvised video text projection by Dale MacDonald
>SILVIA MATHEUS
>     "Cloy" and "Splutter" for tape and interactive performance, exploring 
> the emotional breadth of human utterance
>
>
>++FRIDAY JUNE 21 (hosted by Amy X):
>
>JOEL DAVEL (with guest performer DON BUCHLA)
>     "Langston Looks (at rhythm)" for Marimba Lumina and Lightning 
> gestural controller, featuring the voice of Langston Hughes
>AMY X NEUBURG
>     Avant-cabaret songs for voice, processing and electronic drums, plus 
> a collaboration with Joel
>AMANDA PIASECKI
>     "Silverworn" performed with an electronic skirt made from 100 pieces 
> of silverware
>
>
>++SATURDAY JUNE 22 (hosted by Amy X):
>
>KYLE GANN
>     "So Many Little Dyings" for voice and electronics, plus a new 
> microtonal work
>LAETITIA SONAMI
>     "SILENCE!" -- exploring the spaces *between* the words
>PAMELA Z
>     Works for voice, processing, video, and the BodySynth(TM), plus an 
> improv with Amy X
>
>
>++THURSDAY JUNE 27 (hosted by Pamela Z):
>
>CHARLES AMIRKHANIAN
>     Works for voice(s) and electronics
>JOEL DAVEL
>     "2 Movements" for Marimba Lumina and Lightning, exploring words about 
> movement
>ALLISON HENNESSY
>     Songs with beats, loops, guitar and found sound
>
>
>++FRIDAY JUNE 28 (hosted by Pamela Z):
>
>HMMM... (a.k.a. Herb Heinz & Mark Briggs)
>     Improvisations for voices, loopers, beats, and the "Fudgie," with 
> improvised video text projection by Amy X
>WOBBLY
>     Improvised sample-based cultural recycling
>PAMELA Z
>     Works for voice, processing, video, and the BodySynth(TM)
>
>
>++SATURDAY JUNE 29 (hosted by Pamela Z):
>
>CHARLES AMIRKHANIAN
>     Works for voice(s) and electronics, plus the U.S. premiere of the 
> video "Im Frühling: Part 1" by Carol Law and C.A.
>ERIC LYON
>     "Second Skin" for spectrally altered vocal samples
>AMY X NEUBURG
>     Avant-cabaret songs for voice, processing and electronic drums, plus 
> an improv with Pamela Z
>DEAN SANTOMIERI
>     "A book bound in red buckram..." -- spoken word with electronic 
> soundscape and video
>
>*******************************************
>ELECTRIC WORDS: A Festival of Voice, Text & Electronic Music
>Thursdays to Saturdays June 20-22 and June 27-29
>All shows 8 PM
>
>Info/Reservations: 415-289-2000
>Tickets $10-15 sliding scale (per show)
>$25 for any 3 shows
>$40 for an all-show pass
>Advance tickets available through Ticketweb, TIX on Union Square, or at 
>Venue 9 one hour before curtain
>
>Venue 9
>252 Ninth St. (between Folsom & Howard)
><http://www.venue9.com>www.venue9.com
>
>********************************
>Please let me know if you'd like to be removed from this list. No hard 
>feelings; no questions asked. No shirt; no shoes. Love and xx - a
>--
>++++++++++++++++++++++++
>+++  Amy X Neuburg
>+++  http://www.isproductions.com/amy
>++++++++++++++++++++++++

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 14 15:06:39 2002
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Is anyone in the bay area interested in getting together to 'practice' with
the new Loop IV software? Rather than a jam session, I was thinking along
the lines of an evening of discussion and exploration; a support group.
Everyone brings their echoplex and an input device of their choice to my
house, and we all try and figure out how to use them together, and practice
all the new tricks?

Oh yeah, and I get to multitrack it, and sample it :>

> I found your broad use of the English language to be most refreshing, at a
> time when men with high moral rehtoric are raping the earth.  Perhaps if
we
> spent more time paying attention to words like fuck, and more to what's
> actually happening to the world around us.

I agree. Though I would have prefered 'rodger it like a parish priest on a
choir boy' or 'bugger it like an B-12 over an afgani village' or 'screw with
it like a an Enron exec screwing his secretary's 401k'. But YMMV, and that's
just MHO.

(Hey, at least the media isn't endlessly looping washington D.C.'s 'Intern's
Gone Wild' footage. As much.)


Jonathan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Sottilaro" <sine@zerocrossing.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: Insightful Obscenity (Over the LoopIV--In the News)


> I found your broad use of the English language to be most refreshing, at a
> time when men with high moral rehtoric are raping the earth.  Perhaps if
we
> spent more time paying attention to words like fuck, and more to what's
> actually happening to the world around us.
>
> Mark Sottilaro
>
>
> Hedewa7@aol.com wrote:
>
> > In a message dated 6/14/2002 7:26:50 AM, robert_deveaux@yahoo.com
writes:
> > >I actually found it offensive, but I guess it is
> > >just a sign of the times.
> > public note to kim:
> > if you think that my natural-speech-LoopIV-quote is too offensive,
somehow,
> > please feel free to change my phrase 'fuck-with-it' to 'muck-with-it' or
> > 'diddle-with-it', if you like.
> > sign of the times, indeed.
> > best,
> > dt / splattercell
>

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From: Dean Stiglitz <deknow@deknow.com>
Subject: re[2]: granular looping
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...the definition of granular looping is easy...take a bunch of grains of sand (or small rocks), and arrange them in a loop.  the worlds pre-eminent granual looper (imho) is andy goldsworthy...and excelent example may be found here:

http://cgee.hamline.edu/see/goldsworthy/gold_pebbleshl.gif

deknow (who is feeling a little silly this friday)

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Subject: Re: granular looping
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's the same as FM or wavetable synthesis.

Make a loop so small, that the sound of it repeating creates a frequency all
it's own.


----- Original Message -----
From: "A.Willers" <A.Willers@t-online.de>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: granular looping


>
> > This is only one application of the granular approach, and a pretty
> > obscure one at that.  There are a lot of other possibilities to play
> > with, and I'm really looking forward to hearing what other people come
> > up with.
> >
> > OK,
> >
> > --Andre LaFosse
> > http://www.altruistmusic.com
>
> Hi Andre and all,
>
> you devils made it - finally the fact that I cannot run mp3/real audio
> etc.etc. on my ancient 68K machine is driving me nuts and nowhere to
> run....no internet radio (hmm), product demos (oh, well), loopfest
coverage
> (bad enough), no loop IV explorations (arghhhh) and now: no granular
> loopage to listen to! So please at least explain to this lost soul of the
> looping comunity: what de hell is GRANULAR LOOPING?????
>
> Save me a little peace of mind, Andreas :-)
>

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Subject: Re: re[2]: granular looping
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That's beautiful- nice image to end the work week with- thanks.
C

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dean Stiglitz" <deknow@deknow.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 3:08 PM
Subject: re[2]: granular looping


> ...the definition of granular looping is easy...take a bunch of grains of
sand (or small rocks), and arrange them in a loop.  the worlds pre-eminent
granual looper (imho) is andy goldsworthy...and excelent example may be
found here:
>
> http://cgee.hamline.edu/see/goldsworthy/gold_pebbleshl.gif
>
> deknow (who is feeling a little silly this friday)
>
>


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Here's how I use/define it in LoopIII, I can't speak about LoopIV, since
it hasn't arrived yet:

<This couldn't have been possible without a killer explanation by Andre,
the previous posts by Matthias, Kim and David.>

I use vinyl and an EDP, I'll record 8 bars of break beat, but I do it in
a different way:

Quantize=ON
INSMode=INS
Beat1 is record button
Beat2 insert <This starts to subdivide the loop into 1 beat sub-loops
within the loop, of course clock drift will set in, and the sub loops
will be off more and more as the beat continues.  If I want to throw it
off I can do so by applying a little pressure to the platter to
drop/raise the pitch and throw it off a little further for confusion and
fun later on down the line.>
Beats3-24 are just left to run into entropy (You'll understand the
entropy in a minute).
Beat24 I hit INS again, this stops the recording.


Now I have a "Round" loop with 24 subloops (subloops offer no guarantee
of "Roundness". By roundness, I mean a loop that is looped on beat and
goes infinitely, these may be way off beat to moderately off beat,
according to it's position in the subloops.) inside it.

So, what I can do now, is start to mess with the number of subloops
within the loop.

I hit multiply and multiply it down to 12 subloops, and let the fun
begin.

Through this, I can start to hit UNDO on different loops to have it
scroll through different sub-loops within memory and replacing the
current beat for some later/earlier beat in the mix.

Since the latter sub-loops are a bit more entropic, they start to form
really interesting rhythm patterns.  It sort of becomes an "UNDO Puzzle"
where you just try to keep on getting different patterns out of your bag
of tricks (memory), by stomping on UNDO.

Then once I get a really interesting pattern, I hit MULTIPLY one more
time, let it run until it's at a satisfactory length, then hit INSERT to
completely resize the sub-loop length, to an arbitrary value, like 16
beats.  
I now have a single 16 beat sub-loop made up of the preceding steps.
Now I have a mish-mashed, interesting rhythmed, just the right length
loop to work with.  

I then multiply it back out to 32 beats (or MULTIPLY to 2 Sub-loops) and
start to work with it adding a little accent or whatever here and there
with the drums or horns from the record that I originally recorded it
off.

And that's how I use it.


D




Thanks and best regards,

Dylan DeAnda
dylan@loudcloud.com
703-653-6883
"What is it men cannot be made to believe!"
-Thomas Jefferson




-----Original Message-----
From: A.Willers [mailto:A.Willers@t-online.de] 
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 5:03 PM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: granular looping


> This is only one application of the granular approach, and a pretty
> obscure one at that.  There are a lot of other possibilities to play
> with, and I'm really looking forward to hearing what other people come
> up with.
> 
> OK,
> 
> --Andre LaFosse
> http://www.altruistmusic.com

Hi Andre and all,

you devils made it - finally the fact that I cannot run mp3/real audio 
etc.etc. on my ancient 68K machine is driving me nuts and nowhere to 
run....no internet radio (hmm), product demos (oh, well), loopfest
coverage 
(bad enough), no loop IV explorations (arghhhh) and now: no granular 
loopage to listen to! So please at least explain to this lost soul of
the 
looping comunity: what de hell is GRANULAR LOOPING????? 

Save me a little peace of mind, Andreas :-)

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 14 15:30:12 2002
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The KAOSS pad will do this in a limited way.

Mark


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 14 15:45:33 2002
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> 
> > According to the newest Electronic Musician magazine which has an article
> on
> > latency (for computer recording), AD or DA takes 1.5 ms.
> > . . .
> 
> I'll have to read the article but this does not seems correct.
> 
> For AD at a sampling frequency of 44.1 kHz, I'd expect a latency of 1 /
> 44100 or approx 22.7 microseconds.  I.e., you'll get a new sample point
> every 22.7 microseconds.  Now you could buffer up a bunch of sample points
> and output them later (producing latency), but they still being produced at
> a rate of 44,100 per second.
> 
> Likewise for DA at 44.1 kHz.
> 
> My guess is that the EM article is not discussing a pure AD then DA process.
> 
> Dennis Leas
> -------------------
> dennis@mdbs.com
> 
A/D conversion does not happen instantaneously.  In a successive
approximation A/D (a common type) the number of bits of resolution
determines the conversion time.  For example, for a microprocessor that I 
use on my robots (PIC16C7X), the A/D conversion time per bit, TAD, is 
1.6us and it takes 9.5 TAD to do an 8-bit conversion (in general it's 1 
TAD per bit plus some constant).  Then you have to figure in the sampling 
time (the time that an internal capacitor is charged to the voltage being
sampled), which happens before the conversion even starts.  This is 12us
on the PIC.  So on the PIC the delay would be ~27us.  But this is only
for 8 bits--the conversion time would be 3x more for 24 bits plus the
sampling time is probably much longer since a higher resolution is
required.  D/A as it is commonly implemented (1-bit delta-sigma) also has 
inherent delay...

Cheers,

Keith

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hi mark,

   you might peruse this list on the LD website:

           http://loopers-delight.com/cgi-bin/profiles.cgi?step=view_all

   mank folks have links to their own webpages and soundfiles!

-jas
http://dimbulb.org

Mark Penner wrote:

> Hello, I'm brand spanken new here.  

snip

>   I will be looking for more loop based music to listen to, if anyone 
> could point me in a direction that would be much appreciated.
>


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 14 16:05:51 2002
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> ...the definition of granular looping is easy...take a bunch of grains of
> sand (or small rocks), and arrange them in a loop.  the worlds
> pre-eminent granual looper (imho) is andy goldsworthy...and excelent
> example may be found here:
>
> http://cgee.hamline.edu/see/goldsworthy/gold_pebbleshl.gif

That seems like a good definition to me.  (Where's Dr. Z?)

Speaking of granulation - Kyma has a "Sample Cloud" goober that performs a
kind of granulation on a sample file.  I went nuts when I first found it.
Here's a description for the benefit of your mental health...

>From Symbolic Sound's description of Sample Cloud:
"Generates a cloud of short-duration grains, each using GrainEnv as an
amplitude envelope on a short
segment of sound taken from the specified Sample at a point in the sample
given by the TimeIndex. The
density of simultaneous grains within the cloud is controlled by Density,
with the maximum number of
simultaneous grains given by MaxGrains. Amplitude controls an amplitude
envelope over the *entire*
cloud (each individual grain amplitude is controlled by GrainEnv).
Similarly, Duration is the duration of
the entire cloud, not of each individual grain. You can control the
Frequency, stereo positioning, time
point within the sample, and the duration of each grain as well as
specifying how much (if any) random
jitter should be added to each of these parameters (giving the cloud a more
focused or a more dispersed
sound, depending on how much randomness is added to each of the
parameters)."

(I'll explain a little more...)
So the grains are extracted from the Sample file.  You can pick a totally
random selection of grains (occuring anywhere in the file) or totally
ordered selection of grains in whatever order you want.  The duration of
each grain can likewise vary from a fixed value to a random value.  Next, an
amplitude envelope is imposed on each grain.  Then each grain is placed
somewhere in the left-to-right stereo field.  Again, this can be totally
deterministic, totally random, or somewhere in between.  Finally, you can
determine the maximum number of simultaneous grains that you want to hear.
You can easily produce more than 28 simultaneous grains; each grain is
individually selected from the sample file, with an individual duration and
pan.

Cool stuff!

Dennis Leas
-------------------
dennis@mdbs.com

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Dean Stiglitz wrote:
> 
> ...the definition of granular looping is easy...take a bunch of grains of sand (or small rocks), and arrange them in a loop.  

..and boy, it sure did take me a long time to clean all that sand out of
my EDP afterwards!

--Dre

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The man's got true grit...

(Running for cover.)

Dennis Leas
-------------------
dennis@mdbs.com


----- Original Message -----
From: "Andre LaFosse" <altruist@earthlink.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 3:04 PM
Subject: Re: granular looping


> Dean Stiglitz wrote:
> >
> > ...the definition of granular looping is easy...take a bunch of grains
of sand (or small rocks), and arrange them in a loop.
>
> ..and boy, it sure did take me a long time to clean all that sand out of
> my EDP afterwards!
>
> --Dre
>

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inna nother recent thread, this exchange twixt kevin g. & mr. flint yielded 
kim's EDP-oriented self-definition of 'granular looping'.
the thread is quoted, herein, w/kim's explication at bottom: it seemed to me 
worthy of repeating to those interested in LoopIV who mighta missed it.
so:

At 05:50 PM 6/13/2002, Kevin Goldsmith wrote:
> >Now I'm curious: how would things like unrounded multiply, 8th-quantized
> >substitute, or SUS-insert be done on a Repeater/DL4/JamMan/Boomerang?
> >
>Unrounded multiply == Shorten loop, this can't be done on all loopers, but 
>it can be done on the repeater

Sorry, that is not correct. Unrounded Multiply is not really equal to 
"shorten loop". It is a lot more powerful than that. Unrounded multiply 
lets you multiply a loop by an arbitrary amount, set by where you tap the 
start and ending points. It can be shorter or longer than the original. 
While you are creating this new-sized loop, you can simultaneously overdub 
in real time. This means you could create a new loop that is .87x of the 
original, or 3.4x of the original, or whatever you want. Over the top of it 
you could then have a new overdub of this new length. Since you can start 
at any point of your original loop, you can effectively create a new 
startpoint of your loop.

The original question was about how to start with an ambient loop, and then 
evolve it into a rhythmical loop where the rhythm may not match up with the 
initial loop length. This is precisely the reason why we invented the 
Unrounded Multiply in the EDP, because this is a very common need.

The great thing about it is you don't even need to pay attention to the 
loop lengths at all as you are creating this. So for example, you start off 
creating your ambient loop however you like, creating some texture and 
overdubbing on it or whatever. Maybe it's 5 seconds maybe 8, whatever - 
it's ambient. Then gradually as you create it, some point in the loop 
begins to feel like the "beginning", and that is the point where you want 
to start something more rhythmic. This may have no relation at all to the 
actual startpoint of the loop, but it doesn't matter. At the point where 
you want to start the rhythmic section, you tap Multiply and start playing 
the new part. Again, you don't need to pay any attention to loop lengths, 
just your playing. When you reach the end of your rhythmic bit where you 
want to set the end of the loop, you simply tap Record. Now you have a new 
loop that is the length of your rhythmic phrase, with however much of the 
original ambient bed repeated under it as happened to fit in that space. 
This is a very easy and organic thing to do.

and no, the Repeater does not have a function like this, and neither does 
any other looper.

In LoopIV, we've opened up new possibilities with Unrounded Multiplies, 
where it has become an important part of doing LoopWindowing and granular 
loops.


>8th Quantized Substitute == overdub rhythmically (really replace 
>rhythmically, but lets say overdub because it produces a similar if not 
>the exact effect).  I've done this on the repeater, DL4, Headrush and 
>Boomerang, I don't own a JamMan, but I've seen it done there too.

again, you are not understanding the function. The notion of "quantized" 
control versus free or "unquantized" control of loop functions is unique to 
Loop and the Echoplex, which is the only device that lets you choose. The 
repeater does not have any such concept. It's functions are either 
quantized or not, and you do not have a choice. Same with all other 
loopers. I find the Repeater tends towards quantizing the control actions, 
since it tends to be aimed more towards dance music production where 
precise rhythm is important. Most other loopers only have unquantized 
action, where functions always happen immediately. This tends to work 
better in ambient loops, but can be a problem when you want the tight 
rhythmic accuracy. The EDP lets you work either way.

In LoopIV we have expanded the quantizing possibilities in some really 
interesting ways. It used to be in LoopIII that having quantize on only 
forced control actions to happen at the next cycle boundary. (in EDP-speak 
the cycle is the basic initial loop length set by Recording the loop, using 
multiply or insert lets you create longer loops that consist of multiple 
cycles.)

LoopIV now has two new values for quantize, 8th and Loop. Quantize=Loop 
means that if you have multiplied the loop, any functions you do will wait 
until the next overall loop boundary instead of the next cycle. This can be 
really practical in use.

Quantize=8th is interesting because it lets you subdivide the cycles for 
the quantizing boundaries. It actually subdivides according to the 
8th/cycle parameter, so you can make it anything you want. The default for 
8th/cycle is 8, so normally it subdivides to 8th notes. You could just as 
easily set it to 4 for quarter notes, or 5 or 13 or whatever. What this 
does is precisely quantize any action you do to the next 8th boundary in 
the cycle. This lets you do interesting things like replace exactly one 8th 
note, for example. Or make sure reverse always starts exactly on the beat 
so that your loop doesn't fall out of rhythm while going in and out of 
reverse.

Above I think you are trying to imply that you just do the same thing 
manually, which is certainly possible. What you will find though is you can 
never be as precise as the machine (and maybe you don't want to be.)  Using 
quantize=8th is great when you do want that machine like precision. It is 
also great when working with very fast tempos, where trying to tap in and 
out of a function in exactly one 8th note is too difficult. The results of 
using this function can sound a lot like using a step sequencer, and it's a 
lot of fun.

The next confusion you have is over the functions Replace, Substitute, and 
Overdub. These functions have similarities, but they are not the same. 
Everybody knows overdub, that is where you play something and it is added 
on top of whatever is in the loop, and both new and old remain. Replace is 
a very immediate function, where the current loop audio immediately drops 
out when it is pressed, and whatever you play during that time replaces 
what was there. Only the new thing remains.

Substitute is another new function in LoopIV, and is also unavailable in 
any other looper. Substitute is similar to replace, except the current 
audio in the loop doesn't disappear while you are playing the new bit. You 
still hear the existing stuff as you play, which can be very useful for 
maintaining the feel, or giving a sense of continuity to the listener. Then 
on the *next* repetition, the old stuff is gone and only the new stuff 
remains in the period where the Substitute was done. The result is like 
Replace, but getting there has a feeling of evolving rather than the more 
jarring and sudden action of Replace.

When Andre talks about using Substitute with Quantize=8th, this is how he 
is creating a lot of his tracks that have that step-sequencer feel to them. 
On the fly he can drop in 8th note length fragments of whatever he is 
playing into the loop, ending up with what sounds like a sequence of 8th 
note long sample fragments. As he plays his guitar, he simply taps 
Substitute to grab out an 8th note fragment into the loop. Because the EDP 
is precisely maintaining the 8th note boundaries, he can easily grab exact 
8th notes without much effort, and the result is a very tight rhythmic loop 
that remains tight no matter how much substituting and replacing he does.


>I haven't gotten my LoopIV upgrade yet, so I don't remember what 
>SUS-Insert does, but if you remind me I can describe how to do it for you.

Insert has always been a part of the Echoplex, and is also unique to the 
Echoplex. No other looper has an Insert function. Insert lets you insert 
new material into the loop, increasing the length of the loop in the 
process, all in real time. It is just like multiply in that it works with 
cycles, inserting in increments of the cycle length. So for example if you 
had a 1 bar loop, you could insert 3 more bars of new material and end up 
with a 4 bar loop. The difference between Insert and Multiply is that 
Multiply repeats the original material under you as you increase the 
length, while Insert does not.

And like Multiply, Insert can also be used Unrounded. So you could tap 
Insert and play for 2 and a half cycles, then tap Record to end the Insert 
without rounding off to the next cycle boundary. The result would be a loop 
3 and a half cycles long, that consists of the audio from the initial cycle 
plus the 2 and a half bars of new material that you played.

With LoopIV, this is what gets us to "SUS-Insert". SUS-Insert is a part of 
what we call Real-Time Granular Looping. SUS is short for Sustain, and 
means that a function is active only while you have a button pressed, and 
stops when you release it. With SUS-Insert and SUS-Multiply, the functions 
start when you press the button down, and does an unrounded ending when you 
release it. So the loop length is redefined by the function.

Since the function is only active while the button is pressed, a light tap 
on the button means you can literally activate the function for the few 
milliseconds of time during while the switch is actually contacting. The 
real-time OS of the EDP is easily able to respond to function commands at 
that speed, since it guarantees a very short latency of 1.5ms for any 
action. This means you can create loops that are made up of many tiny 
fragments of sound that you pull out of real-time playing, ending up with 
something that sounds completely different - Granular.

Of course there are many other applications of this, depending on how long 
you press the button changes the results completely. Combining it with the 
quantizing functions means you can get very precise rhythms out of it. etc 
etc. We really have no idea! Certainly we never imagined the things Andre 
is now creating with these ideas, and I'm really looking forward to what 
the rest of you might do with it. It's brand new territory.

and again, these are all completely unique to LoopIV. Nothing else does 
anything like it.



>Note: I'm not against the EDP, heck I own one.  But I've done a lot of 
>experimenting with other boxes to do what I need to do.  The EDP can 
>certainly do all those things much more directly (especially with a 
>super-duper MIDI command center under your feet) and probably better than 
>they could be done with another looping unit, but that doesn't mean that 
>they don't share capabilities.

No, that really is not correct. A very large amount of the functionality of 
the EDP simply does not exist anywhere else. That is especially true with 
LoopIV. Once you get past the beginner level functions, the EDP goes off in 
a very different direction than other loopers, like say the Repeater. (or 
you could think of it as the Repeater going off in a different direction 
from the EDP.) I find those two have very little in common at all, which is 
why you see so many people owning both. Boxes like the RC-20, DL-4, 
Headrush, etc, really don't even go past what we think of as the beginner 
functions on the edp. With those, even beginner looping stuff like feedback 
control is not even implemented, as you can see people scratching their 
heads over in another thread.


>I don't really use most of the features of the EDP, and I've never gigged 
>with mine.  I've found working with the other, simpler, boxes is usually 
>more than enough for what I do.  I keep promising myself to spend some 
>serious time woodshedding with the EDP so that I can feel comfortable with 
>it, but I haven't really had a chance.

Well, I think that is the trick. What you have done with the EDP so far is 
probably just scratching the surface. That is why you are not realizing how 
much power is there and how much further beyond some of those other boxes 
it really goes. Spend some time with it, I think you will discover a lot!

kim

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Steve Lawson wrote:

> suddenly, a
> little more of Andre's alchemical soul-selling EDP mastery has been
> uncovered in North London.

Reading this made me visualise a Pulp Fiction-esque image of Jon Durant
coming 'round your flat with a glowing suitcase in his hand...

(/in-joke of the week)

Goofy Friday continues,

--Andre

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In a message dated 6/14/02 1:02:06 PM, Hedewa7@aol.com writes:

<< correct me if i'm wrong, here, but you'd need a second *independent* 
device 
for that.....  >>

Yes.  Which, IMHO, is the most effective (open/ flexible) way to create 
dynamically changing evolving loops.  Now if I could afford mutiple Plexi 
.... - Paul

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Thats what I meant, what did you think I meant?

> The obscenity didn't phase me, but the merciless repetition of "dude" was 
> a heinous assault upon my psyche, from which I am still struggling to 
> recover.

sorry that you found some of my language -(not kim's, not matthias', etc)-
nasty/unnecessary; next time, i'll tone it down a bit.
..................................................................
Doug Miller
<artist class="web">

http://www.dispatch.com
http://www.columbusnow.com
http://www.cccn.org
http://home.columbus.rr.com/dougmiller

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Thats what I meant, what did you think I meant? 


<excerpt>The obscenity didn't phase me, but the merciless repetition
of "dude" was a heinous assault upon my psyche, from which I am still
struggling to recover.

</excerpt>

<color><param>0000,6363,1212</param>sorry that you found some of my
language -(not kim's, not matthias', etc)-

nasty/unnecessary; next time, i'll tone it down a bit. </color>

<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller><smaller>..................................................................

</smaller></smaller></fontfamily><bold><fontfamily><param>Arial Black</param><smaller><smaller>Doug
Miller</smaller></smaller></fontfamily></bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller><smaller>

<<artist class="web">


http://www.dispatch.com

http://www.columbusnow.com

http://www.cccn.org

http://home.columbus.rr.com/dougmiller</smaller></smaller></fontfamily>
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We are all trying to find time to pursue our art, while feeding =
ourselves and our dependents and maintain some semblance of a social =
human.

http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2002/4/15/103358/720

What do you think of this? Have you heard of it before?

Jon

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<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2715.400" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We are all trying to find time to =
pursue our=20
art,&nbsp;while feeding ourselves and our dependents and maintain some =
semblance=20
of a social human.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2002/4/15/103358/720">http://www.ku=
ro5hin.org/story/2002/4/15/103358/720</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>What do you think of this? Have you =
heard of it=20
before?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Jon</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Hi Mark,

first, welcome aboard! First of all, are you really sure you did reach all
of the limitations of the DL4? There is in fact a lot of crazy stuff you can
do with it (there was i.e. the "external stereo volume pedal trick"
described some time ago, perhaps search the archives for "DL4;volume
pedal"), and I'm positive you will be able to do more weird stuff with your
EDP if you get a deeper understanding of the DL4...otherwise, you risk
having to device of different power, both of which you do not really
understand (no offense).

Cool loop based music available on the market: to mention a few list
members, there's David Torn (recommendation "Cloud about Mercury", "What
means solid, traveller?", "Polytown", "OAH"), SeeWhat?, Matthias Grob, Rick
Walker, the LoopXchange project (www.loopxchange.de), Michael Peters,...

And offlist: one personal favourite is Alvin Lucier (sp?) "I am sitting in a
room" (read it up in the "essential listening" section on the LD website)

Keep it in the loop!

	Rainer

Rainer Straschill
Moinlabs GFX and Soundworks - www.moinlabs.de
digital penis expert group - www.dpeg.de
The MoinSound Archives - www.mp3.com/moinlabs


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Penner [mailto:mark_penner@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Freitag, 14. Juni 2002 19:17
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Subject: I'm New
>
>
> Hello, I'm brand spanken new here.  I followed a link from
> Harmony Central
> to the EDP upgrade site yesterday.  I saw someone in a band
> use one of these
> before but he was doing pretty basic stuff with it so I
> didn't realize the
> versatility of the unit until I read up on it and listened to Andre
> Lafosse's sound clips.  I have to say I was blown away by
> them.  I've been
> experimenting with my DL-4 for a while but I reached it's
> limitations very
> quickly.  I'm very interested in getting a better unit to
> work with and
> looks like EPD is it.  I had no idea there was such a large
> community of
> people performing this kind of stuff.  I will be looking for
> more loop based
> music to listen to, if anyone could point me in a direction
> that would be
> much appreciated.  Thanks, Mark P
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 14 17:52:07 2002
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Old-Return-Path: <dennis@mdbs.com>
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From: "Dennis Leas" <dennis@mdbs.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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Subject: Re: Gig - Minneapolis - This Sunday
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 16:48:15 -0500
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Best wishes for your performance this Sunday!

Wish I could hear it, Petr!


Dennis Leas
-------------------
dennis@mdbs.com


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "petr" <pepetr@yahoo.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 10:13 PM
Subject: Gig - Minneapolis - This Sunday


> I will be providing real time looping based music this Sunday at 10
> AM, during the Sunday Service at the First Universalist Church of
> Minneapolis.  I am using electric guitar, sitar, found instruments,
> EDP, etc.
> 
> First Universalist Church of Minneapolis
> http://www.firstuniv.org/
> 3400 Dupont Avenue South
> Minneapolis
> (612) 825-1701
> 
> petr dolak samojsky
> www.geocities.com/pepetr
> http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/229/petr_dolak_samojsky.html
> 
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 14 17:58:44 2002
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From: "Dennis Leas" <dennis@mdbs.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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> And offlist: one personal favourite is Alvin Lucier (sp?) "I am sitting in
a
> room" (read it up in the "essential listening" section on the LD website)

Yes! Yes!

This has inspired me greatly.  Here's a link to some good "talk-about-it".

http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Music/Music11/listening/10/5.pdf

Dennis Leas
-------------------
dennis@mdbs.com


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 14 18:14:35 2002
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Dennis Leas wrote:

> The man's got true grit...
>
> (Running for cover.)

a dangerous comment with so many rocks lying around

heheh


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 14 19:54:33 2002
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Subject: OT: Looper moving to SF Bay Area, looking for work...
From: e o <listenup@soundsliketree.com>
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Dear San Fransisco Bay Area Loopers,

Though on rare occasions I do pipe up and post on LD myself, most of you
will probably recognize my name, Eric Oberthaler, from posts referencing my
collaborations with Sir Andre LaFosse.  I'm that trumpeter/keyboard guy on
the recent Duet tracks posted here:
http://www.altruistmusic.com/archive/rmx.html

The point of this email is...
I will be moving from the Los Angeles area to the Bay Area in early July and
I am looking for work.  I have a number of musical skills/services that
could potentially be useful to the extended Looper's Delight family,
including:

~ Digital music editing, production, composition (MOTU DP3 based DAW)
~ Notation editing (Sibelius)
~ Trumpet performance (sight-reading, improvisation)
~ Private lessons (trumpet, composition, aural skills)
~ Live sound (with personally owned PA: Mackie SRM450s, 1604vlz, etc.)
~ Workshops for kids (w/ electronic music gadgets and wacky stuff)
~ "Lounge" DJ/Live hybrid (w/ Ableton Live software, looping trumpet, etc.)


Here are some MP3 samples of my other work:

Composition for Yimagination Studios:
http://shoko.calarts.edu/~eobe/HipHop_Theme.mp3
©2002 soundsliketree

Composition or the Burning Man Opera:
http://shoko.calarts.edu/~eobe/AtlantianVortexPhase4.mp3
©2000 soundsliketree

And just for FUN:
http://shoko.calarts.edu/~eobe/SippingPinwheelNectar.mp3
©2000 soundsliketree


Thank you in advance for any help or advice!

Keep spiraling  :)

eric oberthaler
http://www.soundsliketree.com
(many more mp3s within)


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 14 20:29:27 2002
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Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 17:27:35 -0700
From: Mark Sottilaro <sine@zerocrossing.net>
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Welcome up North!

The term "layers" will have a new meaning for you now, as it will mean, more
often than not, wearing what would seem like an extreme amount of clothes for
months like August, instead of what you can do with audio on an Echoplex.

I'm no Sir Andre, but if you don't mind jamming with a commoner, send me an
email.

Mark Sottilaro

e o wrote:

> Dear San Fransisco Bay Area Loopers,
>
> Though on rare occasions I do pipe up and post on LD myself, most of you
> will probably recognize my name, Eric Oberthaler, from posts referencing my
> collaborations with Sir Andre LaFosse.  I'm that trumpeter/keyboard guy on
> the recent Duet tracks posted here:
> http://www.altruistmusic.com/archive/rmx.html
>
> The point of this email is...
> I will be moving from the Los Angeles area to the Bay Area in early July and
> I am looking for work.  I have a number of musical skills/services that
> could potentially be useful to the extended Looper's Delight family,
> including:
>
> ~ Digital music editing, production, composition (MOTU DP3 based DAW)
> ~ Notation editing (Sibelius)
> ~ Trumpet performance (sight-reading, improvisation)
> ~ Private lessons (trumpet, composition, aural skills)
> ~ Live sound (with personally owned PA: Mackie SRM450s, 1604vlz, etc.)
> ~ Workshops for kids (w/ electronic music gadgets and wacky stuff)
> ~ "Lounge" DJ/Live hybrid (w/ Ableton Live software, looping trumpet, etc.)
>
> Here are some MP3 samples of my other work:
>
> Composition for Yimagination Studios:
> http://shoko.calarts.edu/~eobe/HipHop_Theme.mp3
> ©2002 soundsliketree
>
> Composition or the Burning Man Opera:
> http://shoko.calarts.edu/~eobe/AtlantianVortexPhase4.mp3
> ©2000 soundsliketree
>
> And just for FUN:
> http://shoko.calarts.edu/~eobe/SippingPinwheelNectar.mp3
> ©2000 soundsliketree
>
> Thank you in advance for any help or advice!
>
> Keep spiraling  :)
>
> eric oberthaler
> http://www.soundsliketree.com
> (many more mp3s within)

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 14 22:48:16 2002
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Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 21:42:51 -0500
Subject: lexicaon pcm-41
From: "Richard J. Roberts" <zeroohms@surfbest.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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Hi -

Does anyone know anything about the Lexicon PCM -41? I saw one on ebay, but
Harmony Central had nothing on it.

Thanks,

Richard
--
Richard J. Roberts / ZERO OHMS�
http://members.safepages.com/zeroohms/
spaceformusic.com/zeroohms
zeroohms@surfbest.net




From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 14 23:14:53 2002
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Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 20:14:01 -0700
From: Doug Lawrence <dlawren@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Loop IV support group [Bay Area]
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Cc: ssrndpty@hotmail.com
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> Is anyone in the bay area interested in getting together to 'practice'
with
> the new Loop IV software? Rather than a jam session, I was thinking along
> the lines of an evening of discussion and exploration; a support group.
> Everyone brings their echoplex and an input device of their choice to my
> house, and we all try and figure out how to use them together, and
practice
> all the new tricks?

I have a small project studio down in South San Francisco (19' x 22') that
could be used as a meeting place and not have to worry about making noise.
It's usually available on Wednesday evenings, Saturdays or Sundays. There's
even a PA and 5-piece drum kit set-up there if needed. We could probably fit
6 -8  people in there with their gear.

I haven't gotten my Loop IV upgrade yet, but I'm still figuring out Loop III
... it would be nice to get some tips-and-tricks first hand.

Anybody else interested?

Doug



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Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 23:13:31 EDT
Subject: Re: WOT: uberman sleep schedule
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--part1_198.84873a0.2a3c0adb_boundary
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In a message dated 6/14/02 5:42:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
ssrndpty@hotmail.com writes:


> What do you think of this? 

jon.....im into the unterman sleep schedule myself, 12-14 hours of sleep a 
day, id rather be dreaming than thinking about dreaming.....michael

--part1_198.84873a0.2a3c0adb_boundary
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 6/14/02 5:42:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ssrndpty@hotmail.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">What do you think of this? </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
jon.....im into the unterman sleep schedule myself, 12-14 hours of sleep a day, id rather be dreaming than thinking about dreaming.....michael</FONT></HTML>

--part1_198.84873a0.2a3c0adb_boundary--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 14 23:36:56 2002
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Old-Return-Path: <jazzlists@burble.net>
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 20:35:33 -0700
From: Si Butler <jazzlists@burble.net>
Subject: RE: Loop IV support group [Bay Area]
In-reply-to: <002901c2141a$bb256310$0282c83f@kinesys1>
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I'd be into it doug. I live near the civic center, SF.

Rgds, Simon Butler

-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Lawrence [mailto:dlawren@pacbell.net] 
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 8:14 PM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Cc: ssrndpty@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Loop IV support group [Bay Area]

> Is anyone in the bay area interested in getting together to 'practice'
with
> the new Loop IV software? Rather than a jam session, I was thinking
along
> the lines of an evening of discussion and exploration; a support
group.
> Everyone brings their echoplex and an input device of their choice to
my
> house, and we all try and figure out how to use them together, and
practice
> all the new tricks?

I have a small project studio down in South San Francisco (19' x 22')
that
could be used as a meeting place and not have to worry about making
noise.
It's usually available on Wednesday evenings, Saturdays or Sundays.
There's
even a PA and 5-piece drum kit set-up there if needed. We could probably
fit
6 -8  people in there with their gear.

I haven't gotten my Loop IV upgrade yet, but I'm still figuring out Loop
III
... it would be nice to get some tips-and-tricks first hand.

Anybody else interested?

Doug




From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 15 01:32:28 2002
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Wow, could I show up even though I don't have an EDP, ala Fight Club?  I 
might sleep better.

May you never be complete (your rack of gear, that is)

Tyler


On Friday, June 14, 2002, at 08:35  PM, Si Butler wrote:

>
> I'd be into it doug. I live near the civic center, SF.
>
> Rgds, Simon Butler
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Doug Lawrence [mailto:dlawren@pacbell.net]
> Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 8:14 PM
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Cc: ssrndpty@hotmail.com
> Subject: Re: Loop IV support group [Bay Area]
>
>> Is anyone in the bay area interested in getting together to 'practice'
> with
>> the new Loop IV software? Rather than a jam session, I was thinking
> along
>> the lines of an evening of discussion and exploration; a support
> group.
>> Everyone brings their echoplex and an input device of their choice to
> my
>> house, and we all try and figure out how to use them together, and
> practice
>> all the new tricks?
>
> I have a small project studio down in South San Francisco (19' x 22')
> that
> could be used as a meeting place and not have to worry about making
> noise.
> It's usually available on Wednesday evenings, Saturdays or Sundays.
> There's
> even a PA and 5-piece drum kit set-up there if needed. We could probably
> fit
> 6 -8  people in there with their gear.
>
> I haven't gotten my Loop IV upgrade yet, but I'm still figuring out Loop
> III
> ... it would be nice to get some tips-and-tricks first hand.
>
> Anybody else interested?
>
> Doug
>
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 15 01:33:01 2002
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Sounds like classic signs of depression.


On Friday, June 14, 2002, at 08:13  PM, Nemoguitt@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 6/14/02 5:42:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
> ssrndpty@hotmail.com writes:
>
>
> What do you think of this?
>
>
>
> jon.....im into the unterman sleep schedule myself, 12-14 hours of 
> sleep a day, id rather be dreaming than thinking about 
> dreaming.....michael

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 15 03:15:27 2002
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From: skincage <skincage@infin8ty.com>
Subject: vortex pedal
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hi folks. is there anywhere to get the morph control pedals still besides ebay? i really like
the morphing but i'd like it more if i could hold it between effects indefinitely. my feet
are jealous of my hands, i need more stuff to step on!

jon

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 15 08:44:55 2002
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From: Pedro Felix <pfelix28@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: re[2]: granular looping
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snaps~

this is actually what I do in affect. dt, the SONIC
Snowflaking cd and D3 where done thus, only free
handed (or foot),. i've been flaking loops (phrases)
for a few years, but only last year realized the
potential to shift the layers in a, well more intended
manner. i'd love to hear what any one else has along
those lines (no puter sounds) and would be willing to
swap my wares for same.

best, regards, Pedro Felix - NYC 2002
--- Clifford Novey <om@om-studios.com> wrote:
> That's beautiful- nice image to end the work week
> with- thanks.
> C
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dean Stiglitz" <deknow@deknow.com>
> To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 3:08 PM
> Subject: re[2]: granular looping
> 
> 
> > ...the definition of granular looping is
> easy...take a bunch of grains of
> sand (or small rocks), and arrange them in a loop. 
> the worlds pre-eminent
> granual looper (imho) is andy goldsworthy...and
> excelent example may be
> found here:
> >
> >
>
http://cgee.hamline.edu/see/goldsworthy/gold_pebbleshl.gif
> >
> > deknow (who is feeling a little silly this friday)
> >
> >
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
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From: Pedro Felix <pfelix28@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: granular looping
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com, skincage <skincage@infin8ty.com>
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jon -
i could send you some rather evolved flaking. i've dv
recorded a few three hour gigs in addition to about
nine cds of material mastered, i was\wondering when
ya'll would catch up :)

best, Pedro

--- skincage <skincage@infin8ty.com> wrote:
> i'd really like to hear some examples of this!
> 
> jon
> 


__________________________________________________
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 15 09:11:00 2002
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man, that is a whole hell of a lot of work, i came
upon an easier way to do this with the overdub and
riding the feedback pedal whilst changing the phrase
times by glitching the cable aginst various things
i've found. i also do this with the Digitech units
riding the delay in real time via cv either hand or
foot controlled.
welcome, pf


--- Hedewa7@aol.com wrote:
> inna nother recent thread, this exchange twixt kevin
> g. & mr. flint yielded 
> kim's EDP-oriented self-definition of 'granular
> looping'.
> the thread is quoted, herein, w/kim's explication at
> bottom: it seemed to me 
> worthy of repeating to those interested in LoopIV
> who mighta missed it.
> so:
> 
> At 05:50 PM 6/13/2002, Kevin Goldsmith wrote:
> > >Now I'm curious: how would things like unrounded
> multiply, 8th-quantized
> > >substitute, or SUS-insert be done on a
> Repeater/DL4/JamMan/Boomerang?
> > >
> >Unrounded multiply == Shorten loop, this can't be
> done on all loopers, but 
> >it can be done on the repeater
> 
> Sorry, that is not correct. Unrounded Multiply is
> not really equal to 
> "shorten loop". It is a lot more powerful than that.
> Unrounded multiply 
> lets you multiply a loop by an arbitrary amount, set
> by where you tap the 
> start and ending points. It can be shorter or longer
> than the original. 
> While you are creating this new-sized loop, you can
> simultaneously overdub 
> in real time. This means you could create a new loop
> that is .87x of the 
> original, or 3.4x of the original, or whatever you
> want. Over the top of it 
> you could then have a new overdub of this new
> length. Since you can start 
> at any point of your original loop, you can
> effectively create a new 
> startpoint of your loop.
> 
> The original question was about how to start with an
> ambient loop, and then 
> evolve it into a rhythmical loop where the rhythm
> may not match up with the 
> initial loop length. This is precisely the reason
> why we invented the 
> Unrounded Multiply in the EDP, because this is a
> very common need.
> 
> The great thing about it is you don't even need to
> pay attention to the 
> loop lengths at all as you are creating this. So for
> example, you start off 
> creating your ambient loop however you like,
> creating some texture and 
> overdubbing on it or whatever. Maybe it's 5 seconds
> maybe 8, whatever - 
> it's ambient. Then gradually as you create it, some
> point in the loop 
> begins to feel like the "beginning", and that is the
> point where you want 
> to start something more rhythmic. This may have no
> relation at all to the 
> actual startpoint of the loop, but it doesn't
> matter. At the point where 
> you want to start the rhythmic section, you tap
> Multiply and start playing 
> the new part. Again, you don't need to pay any
> attention to loop lengths, 
> just your playing. When you reach the end of your
> rhythmic bit where you 
> want to set the end of the loop, you simply tap
> Record. Now you have a new 
> loop that is the length of your rhythmic phrase,
> with however much of the 
> original ambient bed repeated under it as happened
> to fit in that space. 
> This is a very easy and organic thing to do.
> 
> and no, the Repeater does not have a function like
> this, and neither does 
> any other looper.
> 
> In LoopIV, we've opened up new possibilities with
> Unrounded Multiplies, 
> where it has become an important part of doing
> LoopWindowing and granular 
> loops.
> 
> 
> >8th Quantized Substitute == overdub rhythmically
> (really replace 
> >rhythmically, but lets say overdub because it
> produces a similar if not 
> >the exact effect).  I've done this on the repeater,
> DL4, Headrush and 
> >Boomerang, I don't own a JamMan, but I've seen it
> done there too.
> 
> again, you are not understanding the function. The
> notion of "quantized" 
> control versus free or "unquantized" control of loop
> functions is unique to 
> Loop and the Echoplex, which is the only device that
> lets you choose. The 
> repeater does not have any such concept. It's
> functions are either 
> quantized or not, and you do not have a choice. Same
> with all other 
> loopers. I find the Repeater tends towards
> quantizing the control actions, 
> since it tends to be aimed more towards dance music
> production where 
> precise rhythm is important. Most other loopers only
> have unquantized 
> action, where functions always happen immediately.
> This tends to work 
> better in ambient loops, but can be a problem when
> you want the tight 
> rhythmic accuracy. The EDP lets you work either way.
> 
> In LoopIV we have expanded the quantizing
> possibilities in some really 
> interesting ways. It used to be in LoopIII that
> having quantize on only 
> forced control actions to happen at the next cycle
> boundary. (in EDP-speak 
> the cycle is the basic initial loop length set by
> Recording the loop, using 
> multiply or insert lets you create longer loops that
> consist of multiple 
> cycles.)
> 
> LoopIV now has two new values for quantize, 8th and
> Loop. Quantize=Loop 
> means that if you have multiplied the loop, any
> functions you do will wait 
> until the next overall loop boundary instead of the
> next cycle. This can be 
> really practical in use.
> 
> Quantize=8th is interesting because it lets you
> subdivide the cycles for 
> the quantizing boundaries. It actually subdivides
> according to the 
> 8th/cycle parameter, so you can make it anything you
> want. The default for 
> 8th/cycle is 8, so normally it subdivides to 8th
> notes. You could just as 
> easily set it to 4 for quarter notes, or 5 or 13 or
> whatever. What this 
> does is precisely quantize any action you do to the
> next 8th boundary in 
> the cycle. This lets you do interesting things like
> replace exactly one 8th 
> note, for example. Or make sure reverse always
> starts exactly on the beat 
> so that your loop doesn't fall out of rhythm while
> going in and out of 
> reverse.
> 
> Above I think you are trying to imply that you just
> do the same thing 
> manually, which is certainly possible. What you will
> find though is you can 
> never be as precise as the machine (and maybe you
> don't want to be.)  Using 
> quantize=8th is great when you do want that machine
> like precision. It is 
> also great when working with very fast tempos, where
> trying to tap in and 
> out of a function in exactly one 8th note is too
> difficult. The results of 
> using this function can sound a lot like using a
> step sequencer, and it's a 
> lot of fun.
> 
> The next confusion you have is over the functions
> Replace, Substitute, and 
> Overdub. These functions have similarities, but they
> are not the same. 
> Everybody knows overdub, that is where you play
> something and it is added 
> on top of whatever is in the loop, and both new and
> old remain. Replace is 
> a very immediate function, where the current loop
> audio immediately drops 
> out when it is pressed, and whatever you play during
> that time replaces 
> what was there. Only the new thing remains.
> 
> Substitute is another new function in LoopIV, and is
> also unavailable in 
> any other looper. Substitute is similar to replace,
> except the current 
> audio in the loop doesn't disappear while you are
> playing the new bit. You 
> still hear the existing stuff as you play, which can
> be very useful for 
> maintaining the feel, or giving a sense of
> continuity to the listener. Then 
> 
=== message truncated ===


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What does Err mean when it shows up on the screen of the EDP?  Is there
any way for me to correct this?  I have only had this unit for less than
a month.

Steve

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This found on the Electrix site (dated 5/29):

Fear not Electrix users!!! We had some staffing issues here due to 
vacations and illness but most of us are back to work now. We are still 
running short in the tech support department so I ask for your patience 
for a few more days.

As for us being out of business, we are not shutting down we are just 
changing the way we distribute products. It's mostly a behind the scenes 
thing but unfortunately it will interfere with availability for awhile.

We will be around to answer questions and repair any faulty units. 
Thanks for caring but don't worry.

Cheers, Lisa

I wouldn't take this as fact, based on previous dealings with Electrix 
in regards to product availability, but it's their official word.  
They're being very quiet about any updates.

Mark Sottilaro

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I searched the archives and found one conversation related to this and
the solution then was to have everything connected properly.  In my case
I already had everything connected properly and it was working
yesterday.  But today, I powered up my rig and the "Err" message showed
up.  So anyway, I have checked the archives, the manual, etc. and cannot
find anything about how to fix this.  I would prefer to not have to send
it back to Gibson (for many weeks) and try and solve the problem myself.
Does anyone know if there is a chance that maybe the "Loop" chips have
somehow gotten corrupted?

Thanks,
Steve


> 
> 
> What does Err mean when it shows up on the screen of the EDP? 
>  Is there any way for me to correct this?  I have only had 
> this unit for less than a month.
> 
> Steve
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 15 11:36:24 2002
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From: "Scott McGregor Moore" <scott@dreamstate.to>
To: "Loopers Delight" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>,
        "Ambient@hyperreal" <ambient@hyperreal.org>,
        "The Ambient Way" <the_ambient_way@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: The Ambient Ping presents The Ministry of Inside Things
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 11:37:06 -0400
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Philadelphia is likely the ambient capital of the world, with
several ambient/space music radio programs in the area,
the renowned concert series, The Gatherings, held monthly
in a church sanctuary http://www.thegatherings.org and the
The Philadelphia Ambient Consortium, an extensive website
http://simpletone.com/pacman/pacman.htm detailing the
ambient and experimental activities going on in the area.
This week the Ping is happy to host our first visitors from the
Philly scene, space musicians The Ministry of Inside Things,
which includes Chuck van Zyl, host of the long running (over
twenty-five years) ambient/electronic music radio show
STARS' END http://www.starsend.org and one of the
organizers of The Gatherings series. Welcome MoIT.

THE AMBiENT PiNG   http://www.theambientping.com
Every Tuesday Night - doors open at 9pm - 1st set at 9:30
@ club nia / C'est What - 19 Church St. at Front St. - Toronto
        3 blocks east of the Union Station subway.
        map - http://www.cestwhat.com/map.html
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

This Tuesday June 18th 2002 - The Ministry of Inside Things

Visiting the Ping from Philadelphia, The Ministry of Inside Things
consists of Chuck van Zyl on synths and Art Cohen on electric guitar.
Their music is in the long-form spacemusic vein with touches of '70s
Tangerine Dream/Schulze/Ashra mixed in with their own droning and
churning soundscapes. In the live setting, they create an ever-evolving,
linear and often lengthy aural excursion for the audience. Fans of
Tangerine Dream and the Berlin school of electronics will not want
to miss this concert.

MOIT -  http://www.starsend.org/moit.html
mp3s - http://www.mp3.com/moit

Between Sets CD - "Zeit" (side 1) by Tangerine Dream (Sequel )
A four track double album of dark minimal soundscapes from 1972
which remains Tangerine Dream's most ambient release, though
it was recorded 7 years before Brian Eno coined the term. Track 1,
"Birth Of Liquid Plejades" features The Cologne Cello Quartet
sounding as spooky as TD's early electronic equipment manipulations.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

The Ambient Ping presents free live performances by Toronto's
finest ambient, chillout and experimental music artists plus
performers from across the continent, every Tuesday at club nia
(aka C'est What) featuring a comfortable lower stage area, perfect
for attentive listening, plus a higher level with a bar, back room
and more seating that's great for conversation, good food and
the club's impressive beer, wine and whiskey selection.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Chillout and recharge after the OM Festival...
Coming Tuesday June 25th - Hypnotech 3 and LiminaL projects
http://www.mp3.com/hypnotech3  http://www.liminalprojects.org
 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Please forward this e-mail to any friends who may be
interested in live ambient and experimental performances.


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 15 11:50:44 2002
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Subject: Re: Drum machines vs. Human beings
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I just want to say, that I've looped with Jon and looping with a real 
human KICKS ASS compared to a drum machine (especially when they're 
great like Jon is!)

My only complaints about Jon are:

He doesn't live in the next apartment over
Has other things going on in his life other than playing drums with me

So one day, I'll be like Prince, and be able to have a full complement 
of musicians hanging around prepared to play at my whim, but until then, 
I'm stuck with an occasional jam with people, and a lot of jams with my 
drum machine.

Mark

On Wednesday, June 12, 2002, at 06:12  PM, Jon Wagner wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rick Walker/Loop.pooL"
> Subject: OT: Drum machines vs. Human beings
>
>
> this is why I'm on loopers delight...
> jon
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 15 11:58:40 2002
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This is a long shot, but I've found that some gear I have reacts very 
weird when powered up while receiving some sort of MIDI signal.  Perhaps 
you should try and start it in the absence of any other gear.  Is there 
a factory reset?  Have you tried reseating the eprom?

Hope this helps,

Mark Sottilaro
On Saturday, June 15, 2002, at 08:06  AM, M. Steven Ginn wrote:

> I searched the archives and found one conversation related to this and
> the solution then was to have everything connected properly.  In my case
> I already had everything connected properly and it was working
> yesterday.  But today, I powered up my rig and the "Err" message showed
> up.  So anyway, I have checked the archives, the manual, etc. and cannot
> find anything about how to fix this.  I would prefer to not have to send
> it back to Gibson (for many weeks) and try and solve the problem myself.
> Does anyone know if there is a chance that maybe the "Loop" chips have
> somehow gotten corrupted?
>
> Thanks,
> Steve
>
>
>>
>>
>> What does Err mean when it shows up on the screen of the EDP?
>>  Is there any way for me to correct this?  I have only had
>> this unit for less than a month.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 15 12:21:20 2002
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Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 12:19:27 EDT
Subject: Re: vortex pedal
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> hi folks. is there anywhere to get the morph control pedals still besides 
> ebay? i really like
>  the morphing but i'd like it more if i could hold it between effects 
> indefinitely. my feet
>  are jealous of my hands, i need more stuff to step on!
> 

 


Andy Butler
<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/soundfnr/vortex.htm">Lexicon Vortex Database
</A> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 15 12:35:33 2002
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From: "M. Steven Ginn" <sginn@airmail.net>
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Subject: RE: Err on EDP
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 11:34:54 -0500
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Hi Mark,

I disconnected it like you suggested and that didn't make any
difference.  I also opened the top and tried using a different set of
memory and that didn't help either.  I don't know if there is any reset
sequence that can be performed and I haven't found any docs that mention
what specific messages like this indicate.  I haven't tried to reseat
the 2 proms yet, which maybe I should try next.  I guess I was hoping
that someone who has experienced the exact issue would step in and give
me a solution.  Wishful thinking at this point ...

Thanks,
Steve


> 
> This is a long shot, but I've found that some gear I have reacts very 
> weird when powered up while receiving some sort of MIDI 
> signal.  Perhaps 
> you should try and start it in the absence of any other gear. 
>  Is there 
> a factory reset?  Have you tried reseating the eprom?
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> Mark Sottilaro
> On Saturday, June 15, 2002, at 08:06  AM, M. Steven Ginn wrote:
> 
> > I searched the archives and found one conversation related 
> to this and 
> > the solution then was to have everything connected properly.  In my 
> > case I already had everything connected properly and it was working 
> > yesterday.  But today, I powered up my rig and the "Err" message 
> > showed up.  So anyway, I have checked the archives, the 
> manual, etc. 
> > and cannot find anything about how to fix this.  I would 
> prefer to not 
> > have to send it back to Gibson (for many weeks) and try and 
> solve the 
> > problem myself. Does anyone know if there is a chance that 
> maybe the 
> > "Loop" chips have somehow gotten corrupted?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Steve
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> What does Err mean when it shows up on the screen of the EDP?  Is 
> >> there any way for me to correct this?  I have only had 
> this unit for 
> >> less than a month.
> >>
> >> Steve
> >>
> >
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 15 12:50:33 2002
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I've just spent the past couple of days playing around with Live, and 
from what I have seen of the demo version, it looks pretty powerful for 
looping - especially when synced to Midi looping hardware. Has anyone on 
list incorporated this package into a live setup? What do you think?

--
Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
http://www.solostring.com
stuart@solostring.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 15 12:56:30 2002
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Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 09:55:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Richards <kohntarkosz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: PCM-41
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<<Does anyone know anything about the Lexicon PCM

 -41? I saw one on ebay, but Harmony Central had
nothing on it.>>

Early to mid 80's digital delay. From what I
understand, it's modulation section could do
stuff that other delays couldn't do (ie choosing
between sine and square waveforms, plus a
envelope follower option). For what it's worth,
this is what Steve Stevens used to get the laser
gun sound during the solo on Billy Idol's Rebel
Yell. I've never actually used one, so I don't
know what kind of quality we're talking about. 

Personally, I've always wanted a Lexicon Super
Prime Time delay, which was actually two delay
units in one, with a super flexible modulation
section and was, from what I recall from the ads,
the first programmable effects unit (allowing you
to store sounds). It had one of those old
cassette interfaces like all the synths had
before they started using floppies and those
Atari-style cartridges. 

=====
May you never thirst!
The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris

"What do you get when you give a yo-yo to a flock of flamingos?"-James Earl Jones

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 15 13:36:56 2002
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Mark Sottilaro wrote:

> He doesn't live in the next apartment over
> Has other things going on in his life other than playing drums with me

I've been waiting for someone to come up with some real time Internet
jamming software that could allow for musicians to at least record and
perform
live MIDI tracks-drums, etc., while being separated by distance, and
hopefully,
not too much time (latency).  I suppose this is being done by dedicated
phone
lines and those "broadcast" black boxes used in radio and TV....  but I'm
talking
about cable modems at the most, not sattelite trucks....  Where's the
software
designed for MIDI Internet jamming ?
Now getting someone to dedicate blocks of time to your project is even
tougher.
...and money doesn't always inspire the best performance....even if you had
some
to blow on musicians for hire....  and a fruit and veggies platter only
goes so far.....
Mutual inspiration is always the best.....
By the way....OT.....are there any cello players on the list ?
--
gary
@friendlyspider.com


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 15 14:37:34 2002
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Subject: RE: Err on EDP
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 14:36:05 -0400
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I'm going to agree with Mark, I had a metronome attached to my edp as a
sync, and when I powered up with the metronome off, it gave me the err.


Scared the be-jeezus outta me, thought I fried my sh*t.

Eventually, after poking every button on god's green earth, I then
powered on the metronome, then the edp and it fired up.

D

Thanks and best regards,

Dylan DeAnda
dylan@loudcloud.com
703-653-6883
"What is it men cannot be made to believe!"
-Thomas Jefferson




-----Original Message-----
From: M. Steven Ginn [mailto:sginn@airmail.net] 
Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2002 12:35 PM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: RE: Err on EDP

Hi Mark,

I disconnected it like you suggested and that didn't make any
difference.  I also opened the top and tried using a different set of
memory and that didn't help either.  I don't know if there is any reset
sequence that can be performed and I haven't found any docs that mention
what specific messages like this indicate.  I haven't tried to reseat
the 2 proms yet, which maybe I should try next.  I guess I was hoping
that someone who has experienced the exact issue would step in and give
me a solution.  Wishful thinking at this point ...

Thanks,
Steve


> 
> This is a long shot, but I've found that some gear I have reacts very 
> weird when powered up while receiving some sort of MIDI 
> signal.  Perhaps 
> you should try and start it in the absence of any other gear. 
>  Is there 
> a factory reset?  Have you tried reseating the eprom?
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> Mark Sottilaro
> On Saturday, June 15, 2002, at 08:06  AM, M. Steven Ginn wrote:
> 
> > I searched the archives and found one conversation related 
> to this and 
> > the solution then was to have everything connected properly.  In my 
> > case I already had everything connected properly and it was working 
> > yesterday.  But today, I powered up my rig and the "Err" message 
> > showed up.  So anyway, I have checked the archives, the 
> manual, etc. 
> > and cannot find anything about how to fix this.  I would 
> prefer to not 
> > have to send it back to Gibson (for many weeks) and try and 
> solve the 
> > problem myself. Does anyone know if there is a chance that 
> maybe the 
> > "Loop" chips have somehow gotten corrupted?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Steve
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> What does Err mean when it shows up on the screen of the EDP?  Is 
> >> there any way for me to correct this?  I have only had 
> this unit for 
> >> less than a month.
> >>
> >> Steve
> >>
> >
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 15 15:32:48 2002
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From: "M. Steven Ginn" <sginn@airmail.net>
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Subject: RE: Err on EDP
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 14:31:27 -0500
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I believe I did setup the EDP to sync to external (for the time being
until I get some routing done in my system), but I don't understand why
the absence of an external source would cause the ERR message.  I did
try and turn it off with all the other gear still on and the sync source
(Eclipse) still flashing away, but that did not get rid of the ERR
message.  I wonder if there is some way to reset this thing to factory
defaults?

Thanks,
Steve



> 
> I'm going to agree with Mark, I had a metronome attached to 
> my edp as a sync, and when I powered up with the metronome 
> off, it gave me the err.
> 
> 
> Scared the be-jeezus outta me, thought I fried my sh*t.
> 
> Eventually, after poking every button on god's green earth, I 
> then powered on the metronome, then the edp and it fired up.
> 
> D
> 
> Thanks and best regards,
> 
> Dylan DeAnda
> dylan@loudcloud.com
> 703-653-6883
> "What is it men cannot be made to believe!"
> -Thomas Jefferson
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: M. Steven Ginn [mailto:sginn@airmail.net] 
> Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2002 12:35 PM
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Subject: RE: Err on EDP
> 
> Hi Mark,
> 
> I disconnected it like you suggested and that didn't make any 
> difference.  I also opened the top and tried using a 
> different set of memory and that didn't help either.  I don't 
> know if there is any reset sequence that can be performed and 
> I haven't found any docs that mention what specific messages 
> like this indicate.  I haven't tried to reseat the 2 proms 
> yet, which maybe I should try next.  I guess I was hoping 
> that someone who has experienced the exact issue would step 
> in and give me a solution.  Wishful thinking at this point ...
> 
> Thanks,
> Steve
> 
> 
> > 
> > This is a long shot, but I've found that some gear I have 
> reacts very
> > weird when powered up while receiving some sort of MIDI 
> > signal.  Perhaps 
> > you should try and start it in the absence of any other gear. 
> >  Is there 
> > a factory reset?  Have you tried reseating the eprom?
> > 
> > Hope this helps,
> > 
> > Mark Sottilaro
> > On Saturday, June 15, 2002, at 08:06  AM, M. Steven Ginn wrote:
> > 
> > > I searched the archives and found one conversation related
> > to this and
> > > the solution then was to have everything connected 
> properly.  In my
> > > case I already had everything connected properly and it 
> was working 
> > > yesterday.  But today, I powered up my rig and the "Err" message 
> > > showed up.  So anyway, I have checked the archives, the 
> > manual, etc.
> > > and cannot find anything about how to fix this.  I would
> > prefer to not
> > > have to send it back to Gibson (for many weeks) and try and
> > solve the
> > > problem myself. Does anyone know if there is a chance that
> > maybe the
> > > "Loop" chips have somehow gotten corrupted?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Steve
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> What does Err mean when it shows up on the screen of the EDP?  Is
> > >> there any way for me to correct this?  I have only had 
> > this unit for
> > >> less than a month.
> > >>
> > >> Steve
> > >>
> > >
> > 
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 15 16:24:33 2002
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oooh oooh... me!

i use Live, errr, live.  it's got to be one of the best software products
i've seen in a while.  although i'm just at the beginning of using it in my
set, it hasn't given me any problems as of yet.  as i develop my concept
more i'm sure i'll be pushing it a lot harder than i am now.

you should know though, my performance is based solely upon pre-recorded
loops.  so i can't speak about live's on-the-fly recording capabilities...
but they do work and i know people who use them.

Live is the heart of my setup.  i use it with reaktor and a repeater.  the
one downside, of course, with so much software, is having the computing
resources to back it up... you'll need a decent laptop and as good an audio
interface as you can get.  risking flakey drivers in a live show just isn't
worth it.

do you have more specific questions?

paul





> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stuart Wyatt [mailto:stuart@solostring.com]
> Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2002 9:47 AM
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Subject: Ableton Live
>
>
> I've just spent the past couple of days playing around with Live, and
> from what I have seen of the demo version, it looks pretty powerful for
> looping - especially when synced to Midi looping hardware. Has anyone on
> list incorporated this package into a live setup? What do you think?
>
> --
> Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
> http://www.solostring.com
> stuart@solostring.com
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 15 17:35:25 2002
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Steve said
>...reset this thing to factory
> defaults?


EDP manual, p 2-4: "You can reset all parameters to their factory defaults
by holding down the Parameters button when you power up."

(User's Guide, Loop III)

Not a knower, just quoter, David


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 15 18:09:05 2002
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Paul-

I have a Live question; I know Live can grab live audio into a channel, 
and I know Live has some pretty nice mixing routing capabilities. Can 
you submix the output of a live audio channel along with it's input, 
setting up a feedback system that would allow looping with overdubs?

best-

Mark

On Saturday, June 15, 2002, at 01:23 PM, Paul Weissman wrote:

>
> oooh oooh... me!
>
> i use Live, errr, live.  it's got to be one of the best software 
> products
> i've seen in a while.  although i'm just at the beginning of using it 
> in my
> set, it hasn't given me any problems as of yet.  as i develop my concept
> more i'm sure i'll be pushing it a lot harder than i am now.
>
> you should know though, my performance is based solely upon pre-recorded
> loops.  so i can't speak about live's on-the-fly recording 
> capabilities...
> but they do work and i know people who use them.
>
> Live is the heart of my setup.  i use it with reaktor and a repeater.  
> the
> one downside, of course, with so much software, is having the computing
> resources to back it up... you'll need a decent laptop and as good an 
> audio
> interface as you can get.  risking flakey drivers in a live show just 
> isn't
> worth it.
>
> do you have more specific questions?
>
> paul
>
>
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Stuart Wyatt [mailto:stuart@solostring.com]
>> Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2002 9:47 AM
>> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>> Subject: Ableton Live
>>
>>
>> I've just spent the past couple of days playing around with Live, and
>> from what I have seen of the demo version, it looks pretty powerful for
>> looping - especially when synced to Midi looping hardware. Has anyone 
>> on
>> list incorporated this package into a live setup? What do you think?
>>
>> --
>> Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
>> http://www.solostring.com
>> stuart@solostring.com
>>
>>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 15 18:23:36 2002
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I'm going to be playing with it heavily next week. The idea is to try 
and bounce Repeater tracks onto the Live mixing console through a good 
soundcard. Ive not tried this with the demo version yet due to its time 
limitations. If it works, then I can map a midi footswitch to the ibook 
and have a go at live remixing through a midi console.... If I can 
overcome sync, latency and other nefarious problems, then I have a 
feeling that this will become an interesting tool.

If it does not work that way, then I might buy a mediacard reader, and 
transfer the Repeater loops after each perfomance into Live, and take 
the music one step further.... Either way, I'm still going to be using 
it.

I'm probably going to be picking your brains pretty shortly Paul :)

--
Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
http://www.solostring.com
stuart@solostring.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 15 19:20:21 2002
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Hi!

Ok, so I was searching the web for infos about effect units which can change the pitch in realtime with a midi controller, and after the eventide, which are just too expensive for me, I came across the tc -helicon voiceprism, which is already much cheaper, but a vocal effect machine (i would be curious to try it with the drums actually). When I searched on, I saw that the behringer virtualizer (I think less than 150) does this also. A friend of mine has one, and I will try it soon. But the next morning, suddenly I realized (I didn´t think about it at all before) that my sampler (yamaha a4000) actually does this. 
So I programmed the midi controller which was quite the work because of the way the a4000 converts the controller numbers and started to try. And yes, it´s quite nice and fun, but not as amazing as I thought, because the pitch of the drums is not so clear when you go down so my plan to play bass-line kind of things doesn´t really work out so good. 
But than I started to play around with the fx part of my sampler which is actually really nice for strange things. Did you ever hear a framedrum through a pitch shifter, chorus and gated reversed reverb? It´s wonderful. I really love it. There are great possibilities. I just started to try out and play with all the fx, pitch, filter etc and there is so much more, but already now it´s really crazy.


All the best,
David



From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 15 19:52:04 2002
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Subject: Re: Err on EDP
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At 07:28 AM 6/15/2002, you wrote:
>What does Err mean when it shows up on the screen of the EDP?  Is there
>any way for me to correct this?  I have only had this unit for less than
>a month.
>
>Steve

Steve-

with LoopIII that is an error message that can come on at power up. It 
comes on when there is something connected in the BrotherSync jack or the 
Overdub jack, and acting like a closed switch. So for example, a pedal 
connected in the Overdub jack and held down at power up would cause this 
error message to come on. It could also happen if you have some other 
device connected in either of these jacks that is not powered on, and 
therefore holds down the line as if it were a closed switch. Try 
disconnecting everything from the back and turning on the power, and see if 
it comes on. If it still gives the error message, that could mean that 
there is really something wrong with the jack that is shorting it out. Most 
of the time though, people have this error message when they have something 
else connected in an odd but harmless way and it really doesn't mean much.

For LoopIV we have actually taken this error message out. Most of the time 
it flagged an error when there was nothing actually wrong and just caused 
confusion, as it has for you. For example, if you had several EDP's 
connected to BrotherSync and turned them on one at a time, sometimes the 
first one would give the error message, which was pointless. The error 
message was actually there from the very early days, all the way back with 
the old Paradis LoopDelay where it was useful, but really didn't make any 
sense anymore. So it is gone now. That gives you one simple way to get rid 
of it - upgrade to LoopIV. :-)

kim



______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 15 20:35:15 2002
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Hi Kim,

Thanks for the reply.  I have disconnected it and the Err message stays
there.  I was planning on ordering the Loop IV upgrade, however it is
going to take 3 weeks or so to get the upgrade chips unless I pay for
the rush shipment.  In the mean time is there anything I can do to solve
this problem?  If nothing is plugged in and I am getting this message
then something is apparently wrong; shouldn't I try to actually fix it
or get it fixed?  Can I fix it myself?

Thanks,
Steve

P.S. I really don't want to wait for another 3 weeks or so until I begin
working with this thing.


> 
> At 07:28 AM 6/15/2002, you wrote:
> >What does Err mean when it shows up on the screen of the 
> EDP?  Is there 
> >any way for me to correct this?  I have only had this unit for less 
> >than a month.
> >
> >Steve
> 
> Steve-
> 
> with LoopIII that is an error message that can come on at 
> power up. It 
> comes on when there is something connected in the BrotherSync 
> jack or the 
> Overdub jack, and acting like a closed switch. So for 
> example, a pedal 
> connected in the Overdub jack and held down at power up would 
> cause this 
> error message to come on. It could also happen if you have some other 
> device connected in either of these jacks that is not powered on, and 
> therefore holds down the line as if it were a closed switch. Try 
> disconnecting everything from the back and turning on the 
> power, and see if 
> it comes on. If it still gives the error message, that could 
> mean that 
> there is really something wrong with the jack that is 
> shorting it out. Most 
> of the time though, people have this error message when they 
> have something 
> else connected in an odd but harmless way and it really 
> doesn't mean much.
> 
> For LoopIV we have actually taken this error message out. 
> Most of the time 
> it flagged an error when there was nothing actually wrong and 
> just caused 
> confusion, as it has for you. For example, if you had several EDP's 
> connected to BrotherSync and turned them on one at a time, 
> sometimes the 
> first one would give the error message, which was pointless. 
> The error 
> message was actually there from the very early days, all the 
> way back with 
> the old Paradis LoopDelay where it was useful, but really 
> didn't make any 
> sense anymore. So it is gone now. That gives you one simple 
> way to get rid 
> of it - upgrade to LoopIV. :-)
> 
> kim
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________________________________
> Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
> kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 15 22:01:09 2002
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In that case, something has broken on either the Overdub jack or the 
BrotherSync jack of your echoplex. For some reason the tip connection 
inside the jack is shorting out. your options are:

a) if you are a competent electronics repair technician, get out your 
soldering iron and multi-meter, open up the EDP, locate the problem with 
the jack and correct it, or

b) try sticking a plug in the jack and wiggle it around a bit. maybe it 
will magically fix itself, although probably not permanently. or,

c) call up Shane Radtke at Gibson and send the unit to him for repair.

kim

At 05:33 PM 6/15/2002, M. Steven Ginn wrote:
>Hi Kim,
>
>Thanks for the reply.  I have disconnected it and the Err message stays
>there.  I was planning on ordering the Loop IV upgrade, however it is
>going to take 3 weeks or so to get the upgrade chips unless I pay for
>the rush shipment.  In the mean time is there anything I can do to solve
>this problem?  If nothing is plugged in and I am getting this message
>then something is apparently wrong; shouldn't I try to actually fix it
>or get it fixed?  Can I fix it myself?
>
>Thanks,
>Steve
>
>P.S. I really don't want to wait for another 3 weeks or so until I begin
>working with this thing.
>
>
> >
> > At 07:28 AM 6/15/2002, you wrote:
> > >What does Err mean when it shows up on the screen of the
> > EDP?  Is there
> > >any way for me to correct this?  I have only had this unit for less
> > >than a month.
> > >
> > >Steve
> >
> > Steve-
> >
> > with LoopIII that is an error message that can come on at
> > power up. It
> > comes on when there is something connected in the BrotherSync
> > jack or the
> > Overdub jack, and acting like a closed switch. So for
> > example, a pedal
> > connected in the Overdub jack and held down at power up would
> > cause this
> > error message to come on. It could also happen if you have some other
> > device connected in either of these jacks that is not powered on, and
> > therefore holds down the line as if it were a closed switch. Try
> > disconnecting everything from the back and turning on the
> > power, and see if
> > it comes on. If it still gives the error message, that could
> > mean that
> > there is really something wrong with the jack that is
> > shorting it out. Most
> > of the time though, people have this error message when they
> > have something
> > else connected in an odd but harmless way and it really
> > doesn't mean much.
> >
> > For LoopIV we have actually taken this error message out.
> > Most of the time
> > it flagged an error when there was nothing actually wrong and
> > just caused
> > confusion, as it has for you. For example, if you had several EDP's
> > connected to BrotherSync and turned them on one at a time,
> > sometimes the
> > first one would give the error message, which was pointless.
> > The error
> > message was actually there from the very early days, all the
> > way back with
> > the old Paradis LoopDelay where it was useful, but really
> > didn't make any
> > sense anymore. So it is gone now. That gives you one simple
> > way to get rid
> > of it - upgrade to LoopIV. :-)
> >
> > kim
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> > Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
> > kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com
> >

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 15 22:02:14 2002
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At 07:21 PM 6/12/02, you wrote:
>from a performing rights org guy.

Would you mind elaborating?  Or better, do you have any particular insight 
into the reasons for the pathetic lack of sampling of NPR and college 
stations by ASCAP?  Should I have joined BMI?  To have received the amount 
of airplay I did in the last year, only to be told that I had "none" as far 
as ASCAP was concerned, was more than a little surprising.

Tom



Tom Heasley
NEW CD AVAILABLE:  On the Sensations of Tone,  (www.innova.mu)
ALSO AVAILABLE:  Where the Earth Meets the Sky,  (www.hypnos.com)


--=====================_4417722==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
At 07:21 PM 6/12/02, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>from a performing rights org
guy.</blockquote><br>
Would you mind elaborating?&nbsp; Or better, do you have any particular
insight into the reasons for the pathetic lack of sampling of NPR and
college stations by ASCAP?&nbsp; Should I have joined BMI?&nbsp; To have
received the amount of airplay I did in the last year, only to be told
that I had &quot;none&quot; as far as ASCAP was concerned, was more than
a little surprising.<br><br>
Tom<br><br>
<br>
<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
<font face="Comic Sans MS" size=4><b><i>Tom Heasley<br>
</b></font><font face="Comic Sans MS">NEW CD AVAILABLE:&nbsp; <u>On the
Sensations of Tone</u>,&nbsp;
(<a href="http://www.innova.mu/" eudora="autourl">www.innova.mu</a>)<br>
ALSO AVAILABLE:&nbsp; <u>Where the Earth Meets the Sky</u>,&nbsp;
(<a href="http://www.hypnos.com/" eudora="autourl">www.hypnos.com</a>)<br><br>
</font></i></html>

--=====================_4417722==_.ALT--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 15 22:05:33 2002
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Subject: Berkeley gig, June 16
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Uh, the discounted ticket price will be for students, seniors, fathers AND 
LOOPERS!

See ya,

Tom


>Sunday, June 16, 2002, 7:30 P.M.
>
>First Congregational Church of Berkeley presents
>Composer, Performer, Recording Artist
>
>TOM HEASLEY
>
>in a concert celebrating the release of his latest innova CD,
>On the Sensations of Tone (ambient tuba)
>
>Mr. Heasley will perform his music for tuba, loop sampler, live electronic 
>processing, didjeridu and throat singing.
>
>"...a mesmerizing wonder of deep atmospherics, transporting the listener 
>to some other reality..."
>
>First Congregational Church of Berkeley
>2345 Channing Way (at Dana)
>$15.00 General / $10.00 Students, Seniors and Fathers
>Info/reservations:  650.322.3633 or email: tom@tomheasley.com

--=====================_4615246==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
<br>
Uh, the discounted ticket price will be for students, seniors, fathers
AND LOOPERS!<br><br>
See ya,<br><br>
Tom <br><br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite><font face="Comic Sans MS">Sunday,
June 16, 2002, 7:30 P.M.<br><br>
<i>First Congregational Church of Berkeley presents<br>
Composer, Performer, Recording Artist<br><br>
</i></font><font face="Comic Sans MS" size=5>TOM HEASLEY<br><br>
</font><font face="Comic Sans MS"><i>in a concert celebrating the release
of his latest innova CD,<br>
On the Sensations of Tone (ambient tuba)<br><br>
</i>Mr. Heasley will perform his music for tuba, loop sampler, live
electronic processing, didjeridu and throat singing.<br><br>
<i>&quot;...a mesmerizing wonder of deep atmospherics, transporting the
listener to some other reality...&quot;<br><br>
</i>First Congregational Church of Berkeley<br>
2345 Channing Way (at Dana)<br>
$15.00 General / $10.00 Students, Seniors and Fathers<br>
Info/reservations:&nbsp; 650.322.3633 or email:
tom@tomheasley.com</font></blockquote></html>

--=====================_4615246==_.ALT--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 16 09:31:13 2002
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Subject: i had some ideas for a custom guitar i would like to run by you all
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 14:24:16 +0100
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ideas found here :

http://www.onelessthannone.co.uk

click on eight string guitar

thanks

tell me what you think !

David

------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C21541.7F49DD80
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2716.2200" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT" size=3D2>ideas found here =
:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT" size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT" size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.onelessthannone.co.uk">http://www.onelessthannone.co.u=
k</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT" size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT" size=3D2>click on eight string=20
guitar</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT" size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT" size=3D2>thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT" size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT" size=3D2>tell me what you think =
!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT" =
size=3D2>David</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C21541.7F49DD80--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 16 10:27:27 2002
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From: "Rainer Straschill" <rs@moinlabs.de>
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Subject: RE: percussion, pitch-shifting and fxs (re:pitch-shifting percussion in realtime)
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 16:26:17 +0200
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David,

the thing you might like to try is using filters with a low Q before going
into the pitch shifter. The filter will bring out any characteristic "pitch"
of your drums (if tuned to the right frequency, that is), and this can then
be shifted around...a device to try for this is the TC Fireworx (which I
actually used to do this kind of thing) - its interface helps to simplify
the process, as it has a MIDI note to frequency function for tuning the
filter.

Apart from that, did you succeed in controlling pitch of the repeater with
the FCB1010? While I can happily use the expression pedals to pitchbend
around, somehow assigning controller values to the buttons and thus play the
shifter bass-pedal-style didn't work. Is there any limitation on the
Behringer I should be aware of (or any thing to keep in mind), or was I just
too stupid?

	Rainer


Rainer Straschill
Moinlabs GFX and Soundworks - www.moinlabs.de
digital penis expert group - www.dpeg.de
The MoinSound Archives - www.mp3.com/moinlabs


> -----Original Message-----
> From: david.kuck@web.de [mailto:david.kuck@web.de]
> Sent: Sonntag, 16. Juni 2002 01:16
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Subject: percussion, pitch-shifting and fxs (re:pitch-shifting
> percussion in realtime)
>
>
>
> Hi!
>
> Ok, so I was searching the web for infos about effect units
> which can change the pitch in realtime with a midi
> controller, and after the eventide, which are just too
> expensive for me, I came across the tc -helicon voiceprism,
> which is already much cheaper, but a vocal effect machine (i
> would be curious to try it with the drums actually). When I
> searched on, I saw that the behringer virtualizer (I think
> less than 150) does this also. A friend of mine has one, and
> I will try it soon. But the next morning, s
> uddenly I realized (I didn4t think about it at all before)
> that my sampler (yamaha a4000) actually does this.
> So I programmed the midi controller which was quite the work
> because of the way the a4000 converts the controller numbers
> and started to try. And yes, it4s quite nice and fun, but not
> as amazing as I thought, because the pitch of the drums is
> not so clear when you go down so my plan to play bass-line
> kind of things doesn4t really work out so good.
> But than I started to play around with the fx part of my
> sampler which is actually really nice for strange things. Did
> you ever hear a framedrum through a pitch shifter, chorus and
> gated reversed reverb? It4s wonderful. I really love it.
> There are great possibilities. I just started to try out and
> play with all the fx, pitch, filter etc and there is so much
> more, but already now it4s really crazy.
>
>
> All the best,
> David
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 16 11:43:25 2002
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Subject: A rather nice review! :o) 
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I've just seen at www.talkbass.com that a rather glowing review of 
my newest CD has appeared on the front page, as their featured 
review... further loop interest being that it's written by Max 
Valentino, and his comments and observations about improv within 
the article are well worth reading...

thanks Max! I'm really glad you like the CD :o) 

Steve 
www.steve-lawson.co.uk
www.pillowmountainrecords.co.uk 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 16 12:37:36 2002
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Are there any clips of the CD available?

Steve Lawson wrote:

>I've just seen at www.talkbass.com that a rather glowing review of 
>my newest CD has appeared on the front page, as their featured 
>review... further loop interest being that it's written by Max 
>Valentino, and his comments and observations about improv within 
>the article are well worth reading...
>
>thanks Max! I'm really glad you like the CD :o) 
>
>Steve 
>www.steve-lawson.co.uk
>www.pillowmountainrecords.co.uk 
>
>
>


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 16 15:42:41 2002
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Subject: Re: A rather nice review! :o)
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Congratulations Steve! 

In a message dated 6/16/02 8:44:08 AM, steve@steve-lawson.co.uk writes:

>I've just seen at www.talkbass.com that a rather glowing review of 
>my newest CD has appeared on the front page, as their featured 
>review... further loop interest being that it's written by Max 
>Valentino, and his comments and observations about improv within 
>the article are well worth reading...

And, great job Max!

Best,

Ted

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From: "terry o'brien" <anomalousdisturbances@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: OT: ASCAP (was Film score update)
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 13:12:40 -0700
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Hi Tom,

I'll reply more specifically off list on this... asap. Sampling proceedures 
and distribution rules will change from one P.R.O. (and country) to another 
and I am most conversant in the Canadian practices - I work for SOCAN, 
however I will definitely have an elaboration for you.

cheers, Terry


>From: Tom Heasley <tom@tomheasley.com>
>Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>Subject: Re: Film score update
>Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 19:00:16 -0700
>
>At 07:21 PM 6/12/02, you wrote:
>>from a performing rights org guy.
>
>Would you mind elaborating?  Or better, do you have any particular insight 
>into the reasons for the pathetic lack of sampling of NPR and college 
>stations by ASCAP?  Should I have joined BMI?  To have received the amount 
>of airplay I did in the last year, only to be told that I had "none" as far 
>as ASCAP was concerned, was more than a little surprising.
>
>Tom
>
>
>
>Tom Heasley
>NEW CD AVAILABLE:  On the Sensations of Tone,  (www.innova.mu)
>ALSO AVAILABLE:  Where the Earth Meets the Sky,  (www.hypnos.com)
>




_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

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http://www.audiomidi.com/aboutus/thebuzz.cfm?CPID=56




Tom Heasley


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<html>
<br>
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 16 17:43:08 2002
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Subject: granular looping as a sustain pedal?
From: Peter Einhorn <petereinhorn@mac.com>
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Can granular looping be used to imitate a sustain pedal (as the functions
name implies] or, even better, a sostenuto pedal?
Thanks
peter

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Hi Peter,

Peter Einhorn wrote:
> Can granular looping be used to imitate a sustain pedal (as the functions
> name implies] or, even better, a sostenuto pedal?

In the case of the EDP, "sus" generally refers to momentary pedal action
rather than to sustaining an audio event... but these are a few
different approaches you could try...

I have done a few things with SubCycle Multiply in Stutter mode along
these lines, to stretch the length of a note waaaaaaaay out.  It's not a
very transparent effect, but I like it alot.

There's also a SingleCycle Multiply in Stutter mode, which allows
indefinite repetitions of a given cycle within a multi-cycle loop...

...or you could set Switchquant=CNF, and use SUS-Insert or Unrounded
Multiply to copy just a small fragment into the next loop, and have that
one short thing repeat over and over...


Hmmm.

--Andre LaFosse
http://www.altruistmusic.com

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Subject: RE: percussion, pitch-shifting and fxs (re:pitch-shifting
  percussion in realtime) 
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Hi!
To control the pitch of the repeater you have to program to the controller to send midi notes. When you go to program mode, where you choose the different controller and program messages to send, 10/0 is the button to send midi notes. the table for the values is in the behringer manual (german manual page 14). Then when you activate the "pitch" mode for a channel in the repeater, you can change the pitch by sending note-on commands with the behringer (the same way as with a midi keyboard).

Success,
David






:Apart from that, did you succeed in controlling pitch of the repeater with
:he FCB1010? While I can happily use the expression pedals to pitchbend
:around, somehow assigning controller values to the buttons and thus play the
:shifter bass-pedal-style didn't work. Is there any limitation on the
:Behringer I should be aware of (or any thing to keep in mind), or was I just
:too stupid?



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Subject: Re: i had some ideas for a custom guitar i would like to run by you all
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 18:50:51 -0000
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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one less than none...hummm seems like I remember you hangin' out at gtr =
oblq ... good to "see" you again if so.
interesting stuff the 8 string.  A guy named Tim Diebert has some =
experience building non-standard instruments. -- I remember an 11-string =
he did for example.  You might want to check out his page for ideas as =
well

http://timtone.com

I think that's the right url.

best wishes.
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: one less than none=20
  To: loopers delight=20
  Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 1:24 PM
  Subject: i had some ideas for a custom guitar i would like to run by =
you all


  ideas found here :

  http://www.onelessthannone.co.uk

  click on eight string guitar

  thanks

  tell me what you think !

  David

------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C2162F.E6C8F9C0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>one less than none...hummm seems like I =
remember=20
you hangin' out at gtr oblq ... good to "see" you again if =
so.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>interesting stuff the 8 string.&nbsp; A =
guy named=20
Tim Diebert has some experience building non-standard instruments. -- I =
remember=20
an 11-string he did for example.&nbsp; You might want to check out his =
page for=20
ideas as well</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://timtone.com">http://timtone.com</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I think that's the right =
url.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>best wishes.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Donelessthannone@hotmail.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:onelessthannone@hotmail.com">one less than none</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  title=3DLoopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">loopers =
delight</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, June 16, 2002 =
1:24 PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> i had some ideas for a =
custom=20
  guitar i would like to run by you all</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT" size=3D2>ideas found here =
:</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT" size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT" size=3D2><A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.onelessthannone.co.uk">http://www.onelessthannone.co.u=
k</A></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT" size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT" size=3D2>click on eight string=20
  guitar</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT" size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT" size=3D2>thanks</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT" size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT" size=3D2>tell me what you think=20
!</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT"=20
size=3D2>David</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C2162F.E6C8F9C0--

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Dennis,

The answers below are based on the behavior of my Version 1 'Rang...

> 1) Does the 'Rang enter CRM *whenever* you start recording and REVERSE is
> on?

Yes.  If the REVERSE light is on and you hit record, you will get CRM; or 
more precisely, you must hit record twice to set loop time.

> 2) When does the 'Rang exit CRM?

Only when PLAY(STOP) is pressed.  Pressing DIRECTION has no effect.
Additionally, after exiting CRM with PLAY(STOP), pressing PLAY(STOP) again 
begins playing back whatever was last fed into the loop while in CRM.

> 3) Are any of these answers different for Version 2 than Version 1?

I'm not sure, but I don't think so.  IIRC, enhancements were made to the code 
to smooth the loop barrier while in CRM (due to an occassional pop while 
playing accross the boundary), but I don't believe the basic behavior of CRM 
has changed.  Of course, I could be wrong.

Good luck with your emulator.  I hope this helped.
Todd Pafford
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 17 02:26:30 2002
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From: Chris Richards <kohntarkosz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Firesign Theatre 
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<<One big difference:  The Firesign Theatre is 
  still performing and still coming out with new,
good stuff.  There seemed to be a dip in quality
during the 80s, when (I think) Ossman left for a 
while, but all four are back together, and "Give
Me Immortality or Give Me Death" and "Boom Dot
Bust" are pretty dandy.>>

I THINK I first heard of Firesign Theatre when
they did a TV special for, I believe, HBO. I may
have them mixed up with somebody else there, but
at any rate, I somehow or another heard of them,
and borrowed several of their albums from the
library when I was a teenager (this would have to
have been ca. 88-91). I remember one of them was
Eat Or Be Eaten, one of the albums they did as a
trio, and I actually rather liked it, and though
I haven't heard it in about 10 years, I still
think it was pretty funny. In particular, I liked
the Tonto First National Bank bit ("I'm sorry,
you are presently in the red, so stick em up!").
I haven't heard anything they've done recently
though. 

When I was in the Navy in the early 90's, I
bought all of the first three albums on cassette
at the Tower Records across the street from the
San Diego Sports Arena. 

But getting back to the point that I think the
original poster that I quoted above was making, I
was saying was that Sony reissued How Can You Be
In Two Places At Once... a couple years ago, and
now they've reissued it, along with Waiting For
The Electrician..., Don't Crush That Dwarf...,
and I Think We're All Bozos On This Bus. I
suppose my confusion is this: Why didn't they
reissue all four albums a couple years ago? And
why reissue an album now that you reissued just a
couple years ago? I mean, they've reassigned it a
new catalog number, given it different cover art,
and all of the new reissues have clear CD trays,
whereas my old copy of How Can You Be In Two
Places... At Once... has a black one, and so on.
I mean, it looks like the newest version of the
CD seems to exist strictly for the purpose of
having it match the other three. And of course,
this begs the question, well, why didn't they
just reissue all four CD's back in 98 or whenever
it was that the How Can You Be In Two Places At
Once... Cd that I have came out. 

Of course, the obvious answer to all of this is
real simple: It's Sony! What did you expect?! 

=====
May you never thirst!
The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris

"What do you get when you give a yo-yo to a flock of flamingos?"-James Earl Jones

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 17 02:43:35 2002
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Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 23:41:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Richards <kohntarkosz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Firesign Theatre
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<<How fortunate for everyone!  Waiting for the 
  Electrician or Somebody Like Him has been
out-of-print for years, ever since Sony bought up
the catalog and decided that it would be best to
just have a Best Of collection, which goes to
show how much they understand THAT humor!  >>

I think all of the albums have been out of print
longer than that. I know I saw a CD of Don't
Crush That Dwarf... back around 89 or so, it was
the first album of their's that I heard, and as I
recall, it was on Mobile Fidelity. And I'm not
sure, but I think there was also a MF CD of How
Can You Be In Two Places At Once..., but I could
be wrong. I do remember that the CD of Don't
Crush That Dwarf had new liner notes written by
one of the members of the group (I've forgotten
who) where he mentioned one particular item in
the plot, which he picked up on while listening
to the masters as they prepared the CD version,
that he thought might confuse the listeners. I
won't say what it was, because I can't actually
remember the name of one of the characters
involved (and I haven't gotten around to
listening to side two of the CD). And I'm sure
there was a CD of How Can You Be In Two Places...
(geez, any attempt to abbreviate these album
titles is still a chore to type) as I remember a
line about how Nick Diamond "checks out the other
side" and how he's actually listening to the
other side of the album, backwards. 

Anyway, after I got out of high school, I joined
the Navy, which was a bad idea. But I did get
certain gains out of finding out I didn't belong
in the military, one of which was living in San
Diego, just a bit of a walk from the San Diego
Sports Arena, across the street from which was a
Tower Records. At the time, this was THE best
record store I had ever been to. This is where I
found the cassette copies of the first three
albums, which I bought. 

Now, I can't remember when Sony bought Columbia
(which was the label those albums first came out
on, or at least, the label the cassettes were
issued on), but I think the albums have been out
of print longer than since the release of that
double CD compilation set. Thinking about it now,
the library also had a CD of I Think We're All
Bozos On This Bus (that was the fourth album,
right?), so that makes me wonder if MF didn't
also issue a CD of Waiting For The Electrician...
and I've just never seen it (I'm sure I never saw
that one until I came across the cassette at
Tower). 

<<I remember a lot of nervousness from the
previous publishers, an early high-quality
mastering bunch who'd published everything before
The Giant Rat of Sumatra. I recall the guys
saying something about it during the 25th
Anniversary show at the Wiltern, back when I was
still a free American... >>

DUH!!!!!!!!!! I wrote all that stuff above, then
realized that you mention the Mobile Fidelity
reissues (without specifically mentioning the
name of the outfit). So, I guess that means they
DID reissue all of the albums in question. I
wonder what the "nervousness" was about. Mobile
Fidelity strikes me as the sort of people who
wouldn't be nervous about reissuing cult classic
comedy records. I mean, they put out remastered
CD's of many classic rock albums (I remember they
had a CD of the first two Blue Öyster Cult
albums) that were far superior to the regular
issue CD's that the respective labels were
putting out in the days before everyone started
issuing remasters with bonus tracks, new liner
notes, additional photos, "faithfully reproduced
artwork", etc.  
                  
Which album was it that had the drawing on the
back cover of the animals playing baseball? I
always thought that was a cool cover, though I
hear the album wasn't as good (I borrowed the LP
from the library once, but don't remember much
about it...our local library got rid of all of
their vinyl about 8 years ago). 

=====
May you never thirst!
The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris

"What do you get when you give a yo-yo to a flock of flamingos?"-James Earl Jones

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 17 02:48:18 2002
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From: Shayne Cafferata <scafferata@dlcwest.com>
Subject: Re: Adding character to drum machines...
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>
> Subject: Re: Adding character to drum machines...
> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 13:08:48 -0400
> From: David Beardsley <db@biink.com>
> To: gary@friendlyspider.com, Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Running a drum machine through a Mooger Fooger
> low-pass filter is fun too. Lots of variation.
>
>
>
or a Korg X911

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 17 03:38:52 2002
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From: John Tidwell <wedgehed@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Firesign Theatre 
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This thread is really whetting my appetite for a
National Lampoon Radio Dinner.

I'd love to hear "Magical Misery Tour" again....

 "Fook you Paul, I was always better than you!"


Ahhh, good times.

John

=====
John Tidwell




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 17 03:46:13 2002
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Subject: Re: i had some ideas for a custom guitar i would like to run by you all
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I'll try and find the URL, but I saw an American who was playing in 
Barcelona (or was it somewhere in France? I forget) with a 10 string 
acoustic-type guitar playing through delay pedals on the street. It was 
really something nice :-)

Even though I'm not a guitarist, I've progressed from 4 string to 5,6 
and 7 string electric violins, and have been involved in a lot of the 
design stages. If you want to pick my brains, then feel free. I might 
have some ideas that you can use.

Good luck!

On a completely unrelated note, I saw a concert last week in Paris, 
which included someone who made a 5 string cello, with selectable 
pickups (so he can play electric bass), on a freestanding support, 
connected to a huge homemade console featuring everything from an Akai 
Headrush (alas the only looper) to vintage filters, modern rack effects, 
etc. etc. I wish I had a picture.... this guy is 100% dedicated to 
taking the instrument to its extremes.

The way that he played the cello was amazing - Even going to the 
extremes of inserting sticks between the strings, and flicking them 
whilst having ring modulation, distortion and wah-wah.... very very 
inspirational.

He was playing with someone who had a software package like 
AudioMulch/Live, who was mixing his music with beats on the fly.

I have an email address for him, and I think that he understands 
English - I'll try and get him onto the list.

--
Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
http://www.solostring.com
stuart@solostring.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 17 03:53:38 2002
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        "Loopers-Delight" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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Subject: Re: Ableton Live questions
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I recommend you ask these questions on the forum on the ableton website -
it's a very active and friendly forum, with frequent input from Ableton
themselves.


cheers,
os.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Goldsmith" <kevin@unitcircle.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 8:45 PM
Subject: Ableton Live questions


> I've been reading the reviews and pondering, but I have a couple more
questions...
>
> There is one "master" bus in the app right?  Is there any way to create
multiple master busses (for quad)?  I know that you can assign channels to
other outputs of your sound card, but can you assign multiple channels to
the the same outputs as a workaround?
>
> The EM review sort of contradicted itself.  It said that LIVE supported
MIDI Clock, but then it also said that the new 1.5 version would support
MIDI clock.  Does it or doesn't it?
>
> Is there one loop per channel or multiple loops per channel, but only one
active at a time?
>
> Is there support for no synchronization?  Can I have multiple
non-synchronous loops going or will all loops be stretched to match the
tempo (or a subdivision of the tempo)?
>
> thanks!
>
>    Kevin
>
> --
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> Kevin Goldsmith                          kevin@unitcircle.com
> Unit Circle Media                   http://www.unitcircle.com
> --

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 17 05:01:50 2002
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Subject: A rather nice review
From: Steve Lawson <steve@steve-lawson.co.uk>
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>>Are there any clips of the CD available?<<

Oh yes - if you go to either http://www.steve-lawson.co.uk or
http://www.pillowmountainrecords.co.uk you'll find most of the album there
in real audio form...

hope you enjoy it! :o)

Steve 
www.steve-lawson.co.uk 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 17 05:18:41 2002
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Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 05:12:48 EDT
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> the behringer virtualizer (I think less than 150) does this also. A=
>   friend of mine has one, and I will try it soon.

the pitch shifting on this is a bit rough,

andy butler

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Subject: Re: i had some ideas for a custom guitar i would like to run by you all
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sounds absolutly heavenly !
as i live in the uk im looking for a more local luthier
possisbley this guy www.mansons.co.uk

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stuart Wyatt" <stuart@solostring.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 8:43 AM
Subject: Re: i had some ideas for a custom guitar i would like to run by you
all


> I'll try and find the URL, but I saw an American who was playing in
> Barcelona (or was it somewhere in France? I forget) with a 10 string
> acoustic-type guitar playing through delay pedals on the street. It was
> really something nice :-)
>
> Even though I'm not a guitarist, I've progressed from 4 string to 5,6
> and 7 string electric violins, and have been involved in a lot of the
> design stages. If you want to pick my brains, then feel free. I might
> have some ideas that you can use.
>
> Good luck!
>
> On a completely unrelated note, I saw a concert last week in Paris,
> which included someone who made a 5 string cello, with selectable
> pickups (so he can play electric bass), on a freestanding support,
> connected to a huge homemade console featuring everything from an Akai
> Headrush (alas the only looper) to vintage filters, modern rack effects,
> etc. etc. I wish I had a picture.... this guy is 100% dedicated to
> taking the instrument to its extremes.
>
> The way that he played the cello was amazing - Even going to the
> extremes of inserting sticks between the strings, and flicking them
> whilst having ring modulation, distortion and wah-wah.... very very
> inspirational.
>
> He was playing with someone who had a software package like
> AudioMulch/Live, who was mixing his music with beats on the fly.
>
> I have an email address for him, and I think that he understands
> English - I'll try and get him onto the list.
>
> --
> Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
> http://www.solostring.com
> stuart@solostring.com
>

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Hi guys,

Ah, I  love this list - even in the process of formulating a question to
ask, I come up with my own answers! :o)

I've rejigged my rack a bit of late, taken out the JamMan and have got
everything into my 4U rack case, including pedal boards... except the
Lexicon R1, which I've not been using of late... however, having a few foot
switchable functions is handy, even if I can do patch changes by hand... so
I was going to come in here and ask about footswitches when my own mention
of the currently redundant jamman made me remember my unemployed jamman
footswitch, which instead of getting its P-45 (er, UK unemployment official
document, international readers...) got to try out again for the first team
(am I mixing my metaphors here???) - anyway, a little tweaking and rejigging
and I now have control over the jamman settings in the G2, and have
footswitchable A/B control (which was the origins of this quest, having just
programmed a whole load more morphing patches...)

I may go out and invest in some sort of three switch controller, so I can
have one effect on/off as well per patch, but at the moment this is great...

any suggestions for a VERY small floor unit for patch changing? As I said
I'm doing all of this by hand at the moment, but options can often take
things in other directions...

my rack now has my EDP and G2 in it, with the EDP foot controller, DL4,
visual volume pedal and JamMan footswitch stuffed in the back...

If this works out OK, I may even end up off-loaded my beloved JamMan! I'll
hold onto it for now though - this could be a passing fad... :o)

the search for an easily flyable solo rig get closer to the grail... :o)

big love 

Steve 
www.steve-lawson.co.uk (updated 12/6/2002)
www.pillowmountainrecords.co.uk


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 17 10:36:30 2002
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From: "Dennis Leas" <dennis@mdbs.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
References: <20020612225003.27979.qmail@web13806.mail.yahoo.com> <002401c21318$5bf32740$03ce2444@union01.nj.comcast.net> <020301c2131a$bca1c130$1fab82cc@mdbs.com> <02061622532100.10887@localhost.localdomain>
Subject: more Boomerang questions
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 09:28:04 -0500
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My thanks to all for answering my Boomerang questions, especially Michael
and Todd!

I have more questions.  These are about Version 2.

1) Canceling loop to loop switching.
Say that you've recorded Loop A and B.  Now you're playing back Loop A, you
press A/B, and the Loop 'b" LED starts to blink.  If you didn't change
anything, then the Boomerang would switch to Loop B when encountering the
end of Loop A.

But say that you press A/B again (before the end of Loop A).  Does it
"cancel" the forthcoming loop switch?  If so, does the Loop 'b' LED stop
flashing?  And can you cancel the cancel by pressing A/B again?


2) Does each loop have its own REVERSE setting?
Say that you've recorded Loop A and B.  Can you set B to play reversed and A
to play forward?  So that, for instance, when A is playing forward, you can
press A/B and when B starts, it is playing backwards?


3) Does each loop have its own End of Available Memory indication?
Say that you've recorded Loop A and pressed STOP.  You switch to Loop B (via
a press on A/B) then start to record it.
You run out of memory while recording Loop B and all the LEDs turn-in.  Is
Loop A unchanged?  What happens if you press A/B at this point (with all the
LEDs on)?

Alternatively, could you press PLAY(STOP) to start playback of Loop B, then
PLAY(STOP) again to stop Loop B, then A/B to switch to Loop A, then
PLAY(STOP) to start playback of Loop A?


4) How does STACK interact with loop switching?
Say that you have STACK set for latching behavior, you've recorded both
Loops A and B, and you're playing back Loop A.  Now you press STACK and
start overdubbing into Loop A.  What happens when you press A/B?  Does the
Boomerang switch to Loop B at the end of Loop A?  If so, are you overdubbing
(stacking) into Loop B?


(So many questions...)

Dennis Leas
-------------------
dennis@mdbs.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 17 10:47:45 2002
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Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 15:42:39 +0100
Subject: ooh, even more reviews! :o) 
From: Steve Lawson <steve@steve-lawson.co.uk>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Message-ID: <B933B3EF.606C%steve@steve-lawson.co.uk>
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Here's another review of my CD... from babel-fish I've got an idea of what
he's saying - I'll post the translation when my translator friend gets done
with it, but seeing as how there are some Italians on the list, I thought
I'd post the proper version - it's from an e-zine called 'No Warning', which
covers lots of very interesting stuff, and for those of you that can read
Italian, I'd recommend it...

http://digilander.iol.it/anewland/nowarn.htm

Poco meno di un anno fa ci occupammo dell¹album di debutto del geniale
bassista londinese Steve Lawson, un disco che stupiva per la varietà di
prospettive offerte dallo strumento di un musicista dotato di un grande
senso melodico e di una innata propensione per la ricerca. Oggi Steve sposta
il tiro, ingaggiando una nuova sfida insieme al pianista Jez Carr basata su
una serie di improvvisazioni spontanee che i due musicisti nelle note di
copertina assicurano non essere state in alcun modo preparate, bensì
affrontate come una conversazione (da qui il titolo dell¹album). Ed in
effetti la sensazione di rilassatezza che traspare è proprio quella di una
serena chiacchierata al tavolo di un caffè, in cui si affrontano i temi più
disparati divagando da un punto all¹altro seguendo il filo logico che solo
un dialogo, e solo quello, può avere. Frasi appena mormorate, toni che si
alzano enfatizzando alcuni punti, sussurri e risate, il tutto abilmente
evocato dal basso pastoso di Lawson e dal raffinato piano jazzy di Carr, che
in questi sessantacinque minuti danno un saggio di rara sensibilità
accompagnata ad una grande preparazione e ad una spiccata attitudine per le
sfide più estreme. Come estrapolare da queste tracce un qualcosa che spicchi
rispetto al resto, quando tutto l¹insieme rasenta la perfezione e quando
tutto è così magicamente equilibrato, così splendidamente etereo? Un disco
che rafforza l¹idea di musica improvvisativa come una delle più alte forme
musicali, dove i più profondi segreti dell¹animo umano affiorano lasciando
che un candido approccio tra l¹innocenza dell¹ascoltatore e la vulnerabilità
del musicista crei un¹irripetibile magia, libera da costrizioni, attese e
preconcetti. Grandioso! Fatevi coinvolgere da Conversations, immaginate di
liberarvi per poco più di un¹ora delle vostre spoglie mortali e lasciate che
il vostro animo contempli l¹universo da un punto di osservazione
privilegiato, non ve ne pentirete. Reperibile presso Pillow Mountain Records

Destination Unknown @ Point Of Departure - Drifting Dreaming /
Whateverwhatever - Migration / Piano Miniature / Sweet 'n' Spiky - Shades Of
Creation / Bass Miniature / 1, 2, 3, 4 ... - Broken Lead / Closing Statement
- At First Sight 
  

cheers

Steve 
www.steve-lawson.co.uk
www.pillowmountainrecords.co.uk

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after having my last edp stolen i need to get another one.
does anyone know when they will start to ship with loop IV software ??
also were can i get them from in the uk now that trace elliot is shut =
down ????

thanks

David

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<DIV><FONT face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT" size=3D2>after having my last edp =
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to get another one.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT" size=3D2>does anyone know when they =
will start=20
to ship with loop IV software ??</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT" size=3D2>also were can i get them =
from in the=20
uk now that trace elliot is shut down ????</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT" size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT" size=3D2>thanks</FONT></DIV>
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www.aurisis.com <http://www.aurisis.com/> 
 
Right from the source, I ordered mine there, gave em credit card through
paypal, painless and FUN!
 
D
 
Thanks and best regards,
 
Dylan DeAnda
dylan@loudcloud.com
703-653-6883
"What is it men cannot be made to believe!"
-Thomas Jefferson
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: one less than none [mailto:onelessthannone@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 10:52 AM
To: loopers delight
Subject: does anyone know when the edp will start to ship with loop IV
 
after having my last edp stolen i need to get another one.
does anyone know when they will start to ship with loop IV software ??
also were can i get them from in the uk now that trace elliot is shut
down ????
 
thanks
 
David

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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><a =
href=3D"http://www.aurisis.com/">www.aurisis.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Right from the source, I ordered =
mine
there, gave em credit card through paypal, painless and =
FUN!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
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<p class=3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'>Thanks and best =
regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'>Dylan =
DeAnda<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'>dylan@loudcloud.co=
m<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'>703-653-6883<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;
color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'>&quot;What is it men cannot be made to
believe!&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;
color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'>-Thomas =
Jefferson<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
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<p><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
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<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original =
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> one less than none
[mailto:onelessthannone@hotmail.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, June 17, =
2002 10:52
AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> loopers delight<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> does anyone know =
when the
edp will start to ship with loop IV</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"AvantGarde Md BT"'>after having =
my last
edp stolen i need to get another one.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"AvantGarde Md BT"'>does anyone =
know when
they will start to ship with loop IV software =
??</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"AvantGarde Md BT"'>also were can =
i get
them from in the uk now that trace elliot is shut down =
????</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"AvantGarde Md =
BT"'>thanks</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"AvantGarde Md =
BT"'>David</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

</div>

</body>

</html>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 17 11:07:57 2002
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Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 07:49:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Pedro Felix <pfelix28@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: re[2]: granular looping- and a hush falls
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hey Evan I think you may be on to something:
strange sometimes how i mentioned this subject several
times since October of last year, and when I mention
that I have been doing some form of what I call SONIC
Snowflaking the list goes limp.
now what I am attempting to do pushes the envelope
which is why I am interested in what others are doing,
et cetera.
otherwise the waters will part, Pedro Felix - NYC 2002


--- Pedro Felix <pfelix28@yahoo.com> wrote:
> man, that is a whole hell of a lot of work, i came
> upon an easier way to do this with the overdub and
> riding the feedback pedal whilst changing the phrase
> times by glitching the cable aginst various things
> i've found. i also do this with the Digitech units
> riding the delay in real time via cv either hand or
> foot controlled.
> welcome, pf
> 
> 
> --- Hedewa7@aol.com wrote:
> > inna nother recent thread, this exchange twixt
> kevin
> > g. & mr. flint yielded 
> > kim's EDP-oriented self-definition of 'granular
> > looping'.
> > the thread is quoted, herein, w/kim's explication
> at
> > bottom: it seemed to me 
> > worthy of repeating to those interested in LoopIV
> > who mighta missed it.
> > so:
> > 
> > At 05:50 PM 6/13/2002, Kevin Goldsmith wrote:
> > > >Now I'm curious: how would things like
> unrounded
> > multiply, 8th-quantized
> > > >substitute, or SUS-insert be done on a
> > Repeater/DL4/JamMan/Boomerang?
> > > >
> > >Unrounded multiply == Shorten loop, this can't be
> > done on all loopers, but 
> > >it can be done on the repeater
> > 
> > Sorry, that is not correct. Unrounded Multiply is
> > not really equal to 
> > "shorten loop". It is a lot more powerful than
> that.
> > Unrounded multiply 
> > lets you multiply a loop by an arbitrary amount,
> set
> > by where you tap the 
> > start and ending points. It can be shorter or
> longer
> > than the original. 
> > While you are creating this new-sized loop, you
> can
> > simultaneously overdub 
> > in real time. This means you could create a new
> loop
> > that is .87x of the 
> > original, or 3.4x of the original, or whatever you
> > want. Over the top of it 
> > you could then have a new overdub of this new
> > length. Since you can start 
> > at any point of your original loop, you can
> > effectively create a new 
> > startpoint of your loop.
> > 
> > The original question was about how to start with
> an
> > ambient loop, and then 
> > evolve it into a rhythmical loop where the rhythm
> > may not match up with the 
> > initial loop length. This is precisely the reason
> > why we invented the 
> > Unrounded Multiply in the EDP, because this is a
> > very common need.
> > 
> > The great thing about it is you don't even need to
> > pay attention to the 
> > loop lengths at all as you are creating this. So
> for
> > example, you start off 
> > creating your ambient loop however you like,
> > creating some texture and 
> > overdubbing on it or whatever. Maybe it's 5
> seconds
> > maybe 8, whatever - 
> > it's ambient. Then gradually as you create it,
> some
> > point in the loop 
> > begins to feel like the "beginning", and that is
> the
> > point where you want 
> > to start something more rhythmic. This may have no
> > relation at all to the 
> > actual startpoint of the loop, but it doesn't
> > matter. At the point where 
> > you want to start the rhythmic section, you tap
> > Multiply and start playing 
> > the new part. Again, you don't need to pay any
> > attention to loop lengths, 
> > just your playing. When you reach the end of your
> > rhythmic bit where you 
> > want to set the end of the loop, you simply tap
> > Record. Now you have a new 
> > loop that is the length of your rhythmic phrase,
> > with however much of the 
> > original ambient bed repeated under it as happened
> > to fit in that space. 
> > This is a very easy and organic thing to do.
> > 
> > and no, the Repeater does not have a function like
> > this, and neither does 
> > any other looper.
> > 
> > In LoopIV, we've opened up new possibilities with
> > Unrounded Multiplies, 
> > where it has become an important part of doing
> > LoopWindowing and granular 
> > loops.
> > 
> > 
> > >8th Quantized Substitute == overdub rhythmically
> > (really replace 
> > >rhythmically, but lets say overdub because it
> > produces a similar if not 
> > >the exact effect).  I've done this on the
> repeater,
> > DL4, Headrush and 
> > >Boomerang, I don't own a JamMan, but I've seen it
> > done there too.
> > 
> > again, you are not understanding the function. The
> > notion of "quantized" 
> > control versus free or "unquantized" control of
> loop
> > functions is unique to 
> > Loop and the Echoplex, which is the only device
> that
> > lets you choose. The 
> > repeater does not have any such concept. It's
> > functions are either 
> > quantized or not, and you do not have a choice.
> Same
> > with all other 
> > loopers. I find the Repeater tends towards
> > quantizing the control actions, 
> > since it tends to be aimed more towards dance
> music
> > production where 
> > precise rhythm is important. Most other loopers
> only
> > have unquantized 
> > action, where functions always happen immediately.
> > This tends to work 
> > better in ambient loops, but can be a problem when
> > you want the tight 
> > rhythmic accuracy. The EDP lets you work either
> way.
> > 
> > In LoopIV we have expanded the quantizing
> > possibilities in some really 
> > interesting ways. It used to be in LoopIII that
> > having quantize on only 
> > forced control actions to happen at the next cycle
> > boundary. (in EDP-speak 
> > the cycle is the basic initial loop length set by
> > Recording the loop, using 
> > multiply or insert lets you create longer loops
> that
> > consist of multiple 
> > cycles.)
> > 
> > LoopIV now has two new values for quantize, 8th
> and
> > Loop. Quantize=Loop 
> > means that if you have multiplied the loop, any
> > functions you do will wait 
> > until the next overall loop boundary instead of
> the
> > next cycle. This can be 
> > really practical in use.
> > 
> > Quantize=8th is interesting because it lets you
> > subdivide the cycles for 
> > the quantizing boundaries. It actually subdivides
> > according to the 
> > 8th/cycle parameter, so you can make it anything
> you
> > want. The default for 
> > 8th/cycle is 8, so normally it subdivides to 8th
> > notes. You could just as 
> > easily set it to 4 for quarter notes, or 5 or 13
> or
> > whatever. What this 
> > does is precisely quantize any action you do to
> the
> > next 8th boundary in 
> > the cycle. This lets you do interesting things
> like
> > replace exactly one 8th 
> > note, for example. Or make sure reverse always
> > starts exactly on the beat 
> > so that your loop doesn't fall out of rhythm while
> > going in and out of 
> > reverse.
> > 
> > Above I think you are trying to imply that you
> just
> 
=== message truncated ===


__________________________________________________
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 17 11:34:12 2002
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Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 10:27:16 -0500
From: jim palmer <jimp@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: i had some ideas for a custom guitar i would like to run by you all
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at least get us an url if possible.
i'd like to check this out...

>... 
> I have an email address for him, and I think that he understands 
> English - I'll try and get him onto the list.
> 
> --
> Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
> http://www.solostring.com
> stuart@solostring.com
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 17 11:45:59 2002
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Is anyone successfully using the older Art X-15 Ultrafoot
MIDI pedal board with the Repeater....?
I have the X-15....don't have the Repeater, ....yet....
oops...I didn't search the archives first....
--
gary
@friendlyspider.com


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 17 13:02:04 2002
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Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 09:59:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Evan Meyers <evanmeyers@yahoo.com>
Subject: I lost my phone...
To: liza <zsara3@aol.com>, loopy <loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com>,
        Samantha Lovitz <slovitz@ufl.edu>,
        Justin Makil <justin.makil@misys.com>,
        billy martin <illyB@amuletrecords.com>,
        Jesse Mendelson <jimendelson@yahoo.com>,
        Jason Mervel <jflags@hotmail.com>,
        e Meyers <emeyers@photocircuits.com>,
        erika meyers <erika_meyers@yahoo.com>,
        evan meyers <bf18235@binghamton.edu>,
        Evan Meyers <emeyers@frustum.com>, Evan Meyers <evanmeyers@yahoo.com>,
        Evan Meyers <emeyers@lipmanusa.com>,
        lauren meyers <laurensmeyers@yahoo.com>, ma meyers <redfoxlm@aol.com>,
        Ross Minott <rossminott@hotmail.com>,
        jon mintzer <johnnydoc76@yahoo.com>,
        Matthew Miracolo <mmiracolo@hotmail.com>,
        Colin Morris <doblemalo@yahoo.com>,
        laura muhlenbruck <lmuhlenb@gmu.edu>, Steve Nash <snash@lightning.net>,
        Dianne J Orlando <dorlando@ic.sunysb.edu>, Adam P <pallack@excite.com>,
        Audra Palker <audra.palker@misys.com>,
        Adam Pallack <adamp@korgusa.com>
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Sorry if you aren't someone that I actively talk to,
but I never update my address list.

But...if you are someone that I am actively in
communication with or would like to be...please email
me your phone number because my phone was stolen this
past weekend in WI and I lost all of my phone numbers.
 I cancelled the phone this morning, but the same
number should be activated again later this week once
I have replaced the phone.

Sorry for any inconvenience in sending this to all of
you, but for everyone's sake, please make sure to hit
'reply' and not 'reply all' when responding to
this...no one likes those massive arguements that
ensue when a big list like this starts hitting 'reply
all'

take care,
evan meyers
evanmeyers@yahoo.com
(formerly and soon to be again) 914.646.9049

__________________________________________________
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 17 13:29:24 2002
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Subject: FCB1010 midi question
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Real midi newbie question- can the Behringer FCB1010 midi
pedal control more than one device?  The two would be a
Repeater and Lexi reverb.

Yours in rhythm,
Steve






__________________________________________________
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 17 13:41:07 2002
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Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 19:36:36 +0200
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> Real midi newbie question- can the Behringer FCB1010 midi
> pedal control more than one device?  The two would be a
> Repeater and Lexi reverb.
>
> Yours in rhythm,
> Steve

Yes. If you set up a buch of pads for the midi channel each device is
listening to. The drawback is that midi channel assignment on the FCB1010 is
global.

Yours in harmony

Per Boysen
www.boysen.se
____________________________________________________________
http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=p_boy

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excellent news !
could you let me know when they are ready to ship ???
what is the rrp now ?

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Andy Ewen=20
  To: dylan@loudcloud.com ; Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 7:18 PM
  Subject: RE: does anyone know when the edp will start to ship with =
loop IV


  Trace hasn't shut down; they just don't make anything anymore. Clive =
still has stock of EDPs and could ship you one with Loop4 installed, =
(01621 851851, tell him Andy sent youJ. Very soon, he'll have 100s in =
stock as I am over-seeing further production.

  Andy Ewen,

  Echoplex Production Manager

  =20

  =20

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Dylan DeAnda [mailto:dylan@loudcloud.com]
  Sent: 17 June 2002 16:02
  To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
  Subject: RE: does anyone know when the edp will start to ship with =
loop IV

  =20

  www.aurisis.com

  =20

  Right from the source, I ordered mine there, gave em credit card =
through paypal, painless and FUN!

  =20

  D

  =20

  Thanks and best regards,

  =20

  Dylan DeAnda

  dylan@loudcloud.com

  703-653-6883

  "What is it men cannot be made to believe!"

  -Thomas Jefferson

  =20

  =20

  =20

  -----Original Message-----
  From: one less than none [mailto:onelessthannone@hotmail.com]=20
  Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 10:52 AM
  To: loopers delight
  Subject: does anyone know when the edp will start to ship with loop IV

  =20

  after having my last edp stolen i need to get another one.

  does anyone know when they will start to ship with loop IV software ??

  also were can i get them from in the uk now that trace elliot is shut =
down ????

  =20

  thanks

  =20

  David


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<DIV><FONT face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT" size=3D2>excellent news =
!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT" size=3D2>could you let me know when =
they are=20
ready to ship ???</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT" size=3D2>what is the rrp now =
?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dandy.ewen@btinternet.com =
href=3D"mailto:andy.ewen@btinternet.com">Andy=20
  Ewen</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Ddylan@loudcloud.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:dylan@loudcloud.com">dylan@loudcloud.com</A> ; <A=20
  title=3DLoopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@loope=
rs-delight.com</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, June 17, 2002 =
7:18 PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: does anyone know =
when the=20
  edp will start to ship with loop IV</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DSection1>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle20><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#993366=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">Trace=20
  hasn=92t shut down; they just don=92t make anything anymore. Clive =
still has stock=20
  of EDPs and could ship you one with Loop4 installed, (01621 851851, =
tell him=20
  Andy sent you</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle20><FONT=20
  face=3DWingdings color=3D#993366 size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Wingdings; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; =
mso-char-type: symbol; mso-symbol-font-family: Wingdings"><SPAN=20
  style=3D"mso-char-type: symbol; mso-symbol-font-family: =
Wingdings">J</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></SPAN><SPAN=20
  class=3DEmailStyle20><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#993366 size=3D2><SPAN =

  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">. Very=20
  soon, he=92ll have 100s in stock as I am over-seeing further=20
  production.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle20><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#993366=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">Andy=20
  Ewen,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle20><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#993366=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">Echoplex=20
  Production Manager<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle20><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#993366=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle20><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#993366=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=3DTahoma =
color=3Dblack=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">-----Original=20
  Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> =
Dylan=20
  DeAnda [mailto:dylan@loudcloud.com]<BR><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> 17 June 2002 =
16:02<BR><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@loope=
rs-delight.com</A><BR><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> RE: does anyone know =
when the=20
  edp will start to ship with loop IV</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  size=3D3><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; =
mso-ansi-language: EN-US"><A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.aurisis.com/">www.aurisis.com</A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></F=
ONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; =
mso-ansi-language: EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; =
mso-ansi-language: EN-US">Right=20
  from the source, I ordered mine there, gave em credit card through =
paypal,=20
  painless and FUN!<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; =
mso-ansi-language: EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; =
mso-ansi-language: EN-US">D<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; =
mso-ansi-language: EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoAutoSig style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  color=3Dnavy size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"mso-no-proof: yes"><SPAN =
lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy; mso-ansi-language: =
EN-US">Thanks and best=20
  regards,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></SPAN>
  <P class=3DMsoAutoSig style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  color=3Dnavy size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"mso-no-proof: yes"><SPAN =
lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy; mso-ansi-language: =
EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></SPAN>
  <P class=3DMsoAutoSig style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  color=3Dnavy size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"mso-no-proof: yes"><SPAN =
lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy; mso-ansi-language: EN-US">Dylan =

  DeAnda<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></SPAN>
  <P class=3DMsoAutoSig style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  color=3Dnavy size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"mso-no-proof: yes"><SPAN =
lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy; mso-ansi-language: =
EN-US">dylan@loudcloud.com<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></SPAN>
  <P class=3DMsoAutoSig style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  color=3Dnavy size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"mso-no-proof: yes"><SPAN =
lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy; mso-ansi-language: =
EN-US">703-653-6883<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></SPAN>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3Dnavy=20
  size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"mso-no-proof: yes"><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy; mso-ansi-language: EN-US">"What =
is it men=20
  cannot be made to believe!"<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></SPAN>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3Dnavy=20
  size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"mso-no-proof: yes"><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy; mso-ansi-language: =
EN-US">-Thomas=20
  Jefferson<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></SPAN>
  <P class=3DMsoAutoSig style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  color=3Dnavy size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"mso-no-proof: yes"><SPAN =
lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy; mso-ansi-language: =
EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></SPAN>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3Dnavy=20
  size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"mso-no-proof: yes"><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy; mso-ansi-language: =
EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></SPAN>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; =
mso-ansi-language: EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 72pt"><FONT face=3DTahoma =
color=3Dblack=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; =
mso-ansi-language: EN-US">-----Original=20
  Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> =
one less=20
  than none [mailto:onelessthannone@hotmail.com] <BR><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, June 17, 2002 =
10:52=20
  AM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> loopers=20
  delight<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> =
does anyone=20
  know when the edp will start to ship with loop IV</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
  color=3Dblack><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 72pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; mso-ansi-language: =
EN-US">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
  color=3Dblack><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 72pt"><FONT =
face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT"=20
  color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'AvantGarde Md =
BT'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US">after=20
  having my last edp stolen i need to get another =
one.</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
  color=3Dblack><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 72pt"><FONT =
face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT"=20
  color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'AvantGarde Md =
BT'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US">does=20
  anyone know when they will start to ship with loop IV software=20
  ??</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 72pt"><FONT =
face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT"=20
  color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'AvantGarde Md =
BT'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US">also=20
  were can i get them from in the uk now that trace elliot is shut down=20
  ????</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 72pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
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EN-US">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
  color=3Dblack><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 72pt"><FONT =
face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT"=20
  color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'AvantGarde Md =
BT'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US">thanks</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
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windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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New Roman"=20
  color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
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EN-US">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
  color=3Dblack><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 72pt"><FONT =
face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT"=20
  color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'AvantGarde Md =
BT'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US">David</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
  color=3Dblack><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML=
>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 17 14:25:16 2002
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From: "Andy Ewen" <andy.ewen@btinternet.com>
To: <dylan@loudcloud.com>, <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: RE: does anyone know when the edp will start to ship with loop IV
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 19:18:32 +0100
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Trace hasn't shut down; they just don't make anything anymore. Clive still
has stock of EDPs and could ship you one with Loop4 installed, (01621
851851, tell him Andy sent you:-). Very soon, he'll have 100s in stock as I
am over-seeing further production.
Andy Ewen,
Echoplex Production Manager


-----Original Message-----
From: Dylan DeAnda [mailto:dylan@loudcloud.com]
Sent: 17 June 2002 16:02
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: RE: does anyone know when the edp will start to ship with loop IV

www.aurisis.com <http://www.aurisis.com/>

Right from the source, I ordered mine there, gave em credit card through
paypal, painless and FUN!

D

Thanks and best regards,

Dylan DeAnda
dylan@loudcloud.com
703-653-6883
"What is it men cannot be made to believe!"
-Thomas Jefferson



-----Original Message-----
From: one less than none [mailto:onelessthannone@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 10:52 AM
To: loopers delight
Subject: does anyone know when the edp will start to ship with loop IV

after having my last edp stolen i need to get another one.
does anyone know when they will start to ship with loop IV software ??
also were can i get them from in the uk now that trace elliot is shut down
????

thanks

David

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<body bgcolor=3Dwhite lang=3DEN-GB link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple =
style=3D'tab-interval:36.0pt'>

<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle20><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#993366"
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'>Trace hasn&#8217;t shut down; they just don&#8217;t make anything =
anymore. Clive
still has stock of EDPs and could ship you one with Loop4 installed, =
(01621
851851, tell him Andy sent you</span></font></span><span =
class=3DEmailStyle20><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#993366" face=3DWingdings><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;mso-ascii-font-family:Arial;mso-hansi-font-f=
amily:
Arial;mso-char-type:symbol;mso-symbol-font-family:Wingdings'><span
style=3D'mso-char-type:symbol;mso-symbol-font-family:Wingdings'>J</span><=
/span></font></span><span
class=3DEmailStyle20><font size=3D2 color=3D"#993366" face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>. =
Very
soon, he&#8217;ll have 100s in stock as I am over-seeing further =
production.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle20><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#993366"
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'>Andy Ewen,<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle20><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#993366"
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'>Echoplex Production Manager<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle20><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#993366"
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle20><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#993366"
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Dylan DeAnda
[mailto:dylan@loudcloud.com]<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 17 June 2002 =
16:02<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: does anyone =
know when
the edp will start to ship with loop IV</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><a =
href=3D"http://www.aurisis.com/">www.aurisis.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Right from the source, I ordered =
mine there,
gave em credit card through paypal, painless and =
FUN!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>D<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoAutoSig style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'mso-no-proof:yes'><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Thanks and =
best
regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</span>

<p class=3DMsoAutoSig style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'mso-no-proof:yes'><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

</span>

<p class=3DMsoAutoSig style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'mso-no-proof:yes'><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Dylan =
DeAnda<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</span>

<p class=3DMsoAutoSig style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'mso-no-proof:yes'><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>dylan@loudc=
loud.com<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</span>

<p class=3DMsoAutoSig style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'mso-no-proof:yes'><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>703-653-688=
3<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</span>

<p style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'mso-no-proof:yes'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;
mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&quot;What is it men cannot be made to =
believe!&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</span>

<p style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'mso-no-proof:yes'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;
mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>-Thomas Jefferson<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</span>

<p class=3DMsoAutoSig style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'mso-no-proof:yes'><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

</span>

<p style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'mso-no-proof:yes'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;
mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</span>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:72.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> one less than none
[mailto:onelessthannone@hotmail.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, June 17, =
2002 10:52
AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> loopers delight<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> does anyone know =
when the
edp will start to ship with loop IV</span></font><font =
color=3Dblack><span
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:72.0pt'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black;
mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:72.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT"><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"AvantGarde Md BT";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>after having my =
last
edp stolen i need to get another one.</span></font><font =
color=3Dblack><span
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:72.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT"><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"AvantGarde Md BT";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>does anyone know =
when
they will start to ship with loop IV software ??</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext;
mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:72.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT"><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"AvantGarde Md BT";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>also were can i =
get
them from in the uk now that trace elliot is shut down =
????</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext;
mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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color=3Dblack
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lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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"AvantGarde Md =
BT";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>thanks</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext;
mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:72.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
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style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"AvantGarde Md =
BT";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>David</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext;
mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 17 14:37:29 2002
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From: "Andy Ewen" <andy.ewen@btinternet.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: RE: does anyone know when the edp will start to ship with loop IV
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 19:41:10 +0100
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They are ready for immediate shipment, (maybe a few days to up-grade and
re-test). Clive is currently selling them for £450 & £50 for the
Footcontroller, but there will be an up-charge for the Loop4 software, as
Aurisis need their much-deserved royalties.

-----Original Message-----
From: one less than none [mailto:onelessthannone@hotmail.com]
Sent: 17 June 2002 19:17
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: does anyone know when the edp will start to ship with loop IV

excellent news !
could you let me know when they are ready to ship ???
what is the rrp now ?

----- Original Message -----
From: Andy Ewen <mailto:andy.ewen@btinternet.com>
To: dylan@loudcloud.com <mailto:dylan@loudcloud.com>  ;
Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
<mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 7:18 PM
Subject: RE: does anyone know when the edp will start to ship with loop IV

Trace hasn’t shut down; they just don’t make anything anymore. Clive still
has stock of EDPs and could ship you one with Loop4 installed, (01621
851851, tell him Andy sent you:-). Very soon, he’ll have 100s in stock as I
am over-seeing further production.
Andy Ewen,
Echoplex Production Manager


-----Original Message-----
From: Dylan DeAnda [mailto:dylan@loudcloud.com]
Sent: 17 June 2002 16:02
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
<mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: RE: does anyone know when the edp will start to ship with loop IV

www.aurisis.com <http://www.aurisis.com/>

Right from the source, I ordered mine there, gave em credit card through
paypal, painless and FUN!

D

Thanks and best regards,

Dylan DeAnda
dylan@loudcloud.com
703-653-6883
"What is it men cannot be made to believe!"
-Thomas Jefferson



-----Original Message-----
From: one less than none [mailto:onelessthannone@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 10:52 AM
To: loopers delight
Subject: does anyone know when the edp will start to ship with loop IV

after having my last edp stolen i need to get another one.
does anyone know when they will start to ship with loop IV software ??
also were can i get them from in the uk now that trace elliot is shut down
????

thanks

David

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<body bgcolor=3Dwhite lang=3DEN-GB link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple =
style=3D'tab-interval:36.0pt'>

<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle21><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#003300"
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'>They are ready for immediate shipment, (maybe a few days to =
up-grade and
re-test). Clive is currently selling them for =A3450 &amp; =A350 for the
Footcontroller, but there will be an up-charge for the Loop4 software, =
as
Aurisis need their much-deserved =
royalties.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle21><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#003300"
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> one less than none
[mailto:onelessthannone@hotmail.com]<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 17 June 2002 =
19:17<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b>
Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: does anyone =
know when
the edp will start to ship with loop IV</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"AvantGarde Md BT";
color:black'>excellent news !</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"AvantGarde Md BT";
color:black'>could you let me know when they are ready to ship =
???</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"AvantGarde Md BT";
color:black'>what is the rrp now ?</span></font><font =
color=3Dblack><span
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm =
0cm 4.0pt'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>-----
Original Message ----- </span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;mso-color-alt:win=
dowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:39.75pt;background:#E4E4E4;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:so=
lid black 1.5pt;
padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><b><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>

<div style=3D'font-color:black'>From:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <a
href=3D"mailto:andy.ewen@btinternet.com" =
title=3D"andy.ewen@btinternet.com">Andy
Ewen</a> </span></font></div>

<font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><b><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <a
href=3D"mailto:dylan@loudcloud.com" =
title=3D"dylan@loudcloud.com">dylan@loudcloud.com</a>
; <a href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com"
title=3D"Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@loopers-del=
ight.com</a>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><b><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> Monday, June =
17, 2002
7:18 PM</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;mso-color-alt:win=
dowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><b><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> RE:
does anyone know when the edp will start to ship with loop =
IV</span></font><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><span
class=3DEmailStyle20><font size=3D2 color=3D"#993366" face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Tr=
ace
hasn&#8217;t shut down; they just don&#8217;t make anything anymore. =
Clive still has stock
of EDPs and could ship you one with Loop4 installed, (01621 851851, tell =
him
Andy sent you</span></font></span><span class=3DEmailStyle20><font =
size=3D2
color=3D"#993366" face=3DWingdings><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;mso-ascii-font-family:Arial;mso-hansi-font-f=
amily:
Arial;mso-char-type:symbol;mso-symbol-font-family:Wingdings'><span
style=3D'mso-char-type:symbol;mso-symbol-font-family:Wingdings'>J</span><=
/span></font></span><span
class=3DEmailStyle20><font size=3D2 color=3D"#993366" face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>. =
Very
soon, he&#8217;ll have 100s in stock as I am over-seeing further =
production.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><span
class=3DEmailStyle20><font size=3D2 color=3D"#993366" face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>An=
dy Ewen,<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><span
class=3DEmailStyle20><font size=3D2 color=3D"#993366" face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Ec=
hoplex
Production Manager<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><span
class=3DEmailStyle20><font size=3D2 color=3D"#993366" face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>&n=
bsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><span
class=3DEmailStyle20><font size=3D2 color=3D"#993366" face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>&n=
bsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

</div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm =
0cm 4.0pt'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblack face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Dylan DeAnda
[mailto:dylan@loudcloud.com]<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 17 June 2002 =
16:02<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <a
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@loope=
rs-delight.com</a><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: does anyone =
know when
the edp will start to ship with loop IV</span></font><font =
color=3Dblack><span
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><font =
size=3D3
color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><a =
href=3D"http://www.aurisis.com/">www.aurisis.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Right from the source, I =
ordered mine
there, gave em credit card through paypal, painless and =
FUN!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>D<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoAutoSig =
style=3D'margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><font =
size=3D3
color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'mso-no-proof: =
yes'><span
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Thanks
and best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</span>

<p class=3DMsoAutoSig =
style=3D'margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><font =
size=3D3
color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'mso-no-proof: =
yes'><span
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

</span>

<p class=3DMsoAutoSig =
style=3D'margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><font =
size=3D3
color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'mso-no-proof: =
yes'><span
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Dylan
DeAnda<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</span>

<p class=3DMsoAutoSig =
style=3D'margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><font =
size=3D3
color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'mso-no-proof: =
yes'><span
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>dylan@loudc=
loud.com<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</span>

<p class=3DMsoAutoSig =
style=3D'margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><font =
size=3D3
color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'mso-no-proof: =
yes'><span
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>703-653-688=
3<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</span>

<p style=3D'margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid =
black 1.5pt;
padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'mso-no-proof: yes'><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&quot;What =
is it
men cannot be made to believe!&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</span>

<p style=3D'margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid =
black 1.5pt;
padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'mso-no-proof: yes'><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>-Thomas =
Jefferson<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</span>

<p class=3DMsoAutoSig =
style=3D'margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><font =
size=3D3
color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'mso-no-proof: =
yes'><span
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

</span>

<p style=3D'margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid =
black 1.5pt;
padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'mso-no-proof: yes'><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

</span>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

</div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm =
0cm 4.0pt'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:111.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblack face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Tahoma;color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>-----Original =
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> one less than none
[mailto:onelessthannone@hotmail.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, June 17, =
2002 10:52
AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> loopers delight<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> does anyone know =
when the
edp will start to ship with loop IV</span></font><font =
color=3Dblack><span
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:111.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><font =
size=3D3
color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;
color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;</span></font><font =
color=3Dblack><span
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:111.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblack face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT"><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"AvantGarde Md =
BT";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>after
having my last edp stolen i need to get another one.</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext;
mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:111.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblack face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT"><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"AvantGarde Md BT";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>does =
anyone
know when they will start to ship with loop IV software =
??</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext;
mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:111.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblack face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT"><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"AvantGarde Md BT";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>also =
were
can i get them from in the uk now that trace elliot is shut down =
????</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext;
mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:111.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><font =
size=3D3
color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;
color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;</span></font><font =
color=3Dblack><span
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:111.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblack face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT"><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"AvantGarde Md =
BT";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>thanks</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext;
mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:111.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><font =
size=3D3
color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;
color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;</span></font><font =
color=3Dblack><span
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:111.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblack face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT"><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"AvantGarde Md =
BT";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>David</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext;
mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

</body>

</html>

------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C21636.EEBB69E0--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 17 15:00:05 2002
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Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 14:48:59 -0400
Old-Return-Path: <telecaster@mac.com>
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 11:48:13 -0700
From: Greg Kucharo <telecaster@mac.com>
Subject: RE: does anyone know when the edp will start to ship with loop IV
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
X-Priority: 3
In-Reply-To: <PFEKJOIHOEHDAACEACIHEEKLCEAA.andy.ewen@btinternet.com>
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  Speaking of the upgrade, has anyone who bought it from the website
with PayPal gotten it in the mail yet?
   Those who didn't get the priority option of course.


on 6/17/02 Andy Ewen wrote:

>They are ready for immediate shipment, (maybe a few days to up-grade
and
>re-test). Clive is currently selling them for £450 & £50 for the
>Footcontroller, but there will be an up-charge for the Loop4 software, 
>as
>Aurisis need their much-deserved royalties.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: one less than none [mailto:onelessthannone@hotmail.com]
>Sent: 17 June 2002 19:17
>To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>Subject: Re: does anyone know when the edp will start to ship with loop 
>IV
>
>excellent news !
>could you let me know when they are ready to ship ???
>what is the rrp now ?
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Andy Ewen <mailto:andy.ewen@btinternet.com>
>To: dylan@loudcloud.com <mailto:dylan@loudcloud.com>  ;
>Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
><mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
>Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 7:18 PM
>Subject: RE: does anyone know when the edp will start to ship with loop 
>IV
>
>Trace hasn’t shut down; they just don’t make anything anymore. Clive 
>still
>has stock of EDPs and could ship you one with Loop4 installed, (01621
>851851, tell him Andy sent you:-). Very soon, he’ll have 100s in stock 
>as I
>am over-seeing further production.
>Andy Ewen,
>Echoplex Production Manager
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Dylan DeAnda [mailto:dylan@loudcloud.com]
>Sent: 17 June 2002 16:02
>To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
><mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
>Subject: RE: does anyone know when the edp will start to ship with loop 
>IV
>
>www.aurisis.com <http://www.aurisis.com/>
>
>Right from the source, I ordered mine there, gave em credit card
through
>paypal, painless and FUN!
>
>D
>
>Thanks and best regards,
>
>Dylan DeAnda
>dylan@loudcloud.com
>703-653-6883
>"What is it men cannot be made to believe!"
>-Thomas Jefferson
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: one less than none [mailto:onelessthannone@hotmail.com]
>Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 10:52 AM
>To: loopers delight
>Subject: does anyone know when the edp will start to ship with loop IV
>
>after having my last edp stolen i need to get another one.
>does anyone know when they will start to ship with loop IV software ??
>also were can i get them from in the uk now that trace elliot is shut 
>down
>????
>
>thanks
>
>David
------------------------------------------
Greg Kucharo-                                 
mutantaudio.com


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 17 15:08:41 2002
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From: "Bill Fox" <billfox@fast.net>
To: "emusic-wdiy Mailing List" <emusic-wdiy@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: EMUSIC Playlist #273
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 15:01:47 -0400
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[ Best viewed using a fixed spacing font. ]

EMUSIC is an electronic, ambient, and space music show, that airs each Thursday
at 11:04 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and Bethlehem, PA and 93.9 FM in Easton,
PA and Phillipsburg, NJ.

                    Show #273                    June 13, 2002.


RECAP:
On this show, I continued the month-long focus on Amir Baghiri, who creates
ambient music laced with tribal, world, and industrial influences.  The
Featured CD at midnight was "Live," the second disc from "The Bluebox
Collection" on the Arya label.

The vinyl show starter was from the LP "Departure from the Northern Wasteland"
by Michael Hoenig on the Kuckuck label.

I played the music of The Ministry of Inside Things who will be performing at
the next event in the Soundscapes Concert Series on June 22.  Details can be
seen on the Events page.

Amir Baghiri
http://wdiyfm.org/programs/emusic/playlists/2002/focus02.html#jun
Ministry of Inside Things     http://wdiyfm.org/programs/emusic/events.html


PLAYLIST:

ARTIST                  TRACK                    ALBUM (label)
======================= ======================== ==============================
11:04 pm
Michael Hoenig          Hanging Garden Transfer  Departure from the Northern
                                                   Wasteland (Kuckuck)
Ministry of Inside      Patterns                 Live at the ICA (Synkronos)
  Things
Giles Reaves with       The Deep End             The Deep End (Space for Music)
  Ashid Himons
vidnaObmana and Joris   Fusion                   The Oblique Fusion (prerelease
 De Backer                                         CDR)

12:00 am
Amir Baghiri            Killing Time             Live (Arya)
Amir Baghiri            Last Heat                Live (Arya)
Amir Baghiri            Towards a Dream          Live (Arya)
Amir Baghiri            Alchemist                Live (Arya)
Amir Baghiri            Deep Fall                Live (Arya)
Amir Baghiri            Out of the Dark          Live (Arya)
Amir Baghiri            Shrouded Skies           Live (Arya)
Amir Baghiri            Nanyphobia               Live (Arya)
Amir Baghiri            In the Heart of          Live (Arya)
                          Underworld

1:00 am

 * = exerpt
VA = Various Artists (compilation)


NEXT SHOW:
On the next EMUSIC, I'll continue the month-long focus on Amir Baghiri.  The
Featured CD at Midnight will be "Night," the third disc from "The Bluebox
Collection" on the Arya label.

The vinyl show starter will be from the LP "Catharsis Volume 6."

The Ministry of Inside Things who will perform at the Soundscapes Concert
Series on June 22, will play live on EMUSIC to whet your appetite for the
concert at the IceHouse.


Bill
===============================================================================
Host of EMUSIC, an electronic, ambient, and space  music  show.   Thursdays  at
11  pm  on  WDIY  88.1  FM,  Allentown  and Bethlehem and 93.9 FM in Easton and
Phillipsburg.  http://wdiyfm.org/programs/emusic
Host  of  the  AM/FM  show  on  WMUH  91.7  FM  every  other  Saturday at 6 am.
Email me before submiting music for airplay consideration.     billfox@fast.net
Radio Station Home Pages:   http://wdiyfm.org    http://www.muhlenberg.edu/wmuh
Personal site: http://www.users.fast.net/~billfox
To subscribe to the EMUSIC on WDIY list, go to
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/emusic-wdiy  and  click  on  [Join  This  Group!]
SOUNDSCAPES Concert Series: http://www.tadream.net/soundscapes

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 17 15:11:06 2002
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Would what you're describing be akin to what Robert Fripp does with his
soundscapes?  I used to play a lot with a similar effect, using a
harmonizer where I could control the pitch with one pedal, and then
control the delay time with another pedal.  This seemed like it was
grandulating the sound, and pitchshifting it all over the place.  Having
the feedback on high worked really well.  I kind of abandoned that
effect when I started hearing it A LOT on stuff, but it's still fun.  To
do it well, you've got to have the two pedals, and be sitting on a stool
so you can work the both at the same time like some other looping
guitarist we all know...

Mark Sottilaro

Pedro Felix wrote:

> hey Evan I think you may be on to something:
> strange sometimes how i mentioned this subject several
> times since October of last year, and when I mention
> that I have been doing some form of what I call SONIC
> Snowflaking the list goes limp.
> now what I am attempting to do pushes the envelope
> which is why I am interested in what others are doing,
> et cetera.
> otherwise the waters will part, Pedro Felix - NYC 2002

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From: Chris Richards <kohntarkosz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Mansons? 
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<<as i live in the uk im looking for a more local

 luthier possisbley this guy www.mansons.co.uk>>

I dunno if it meant it this way, but I get the
impression you're unfamiliar with the work of
Hugh and Andrew Manson. As I recall, Hugh builds
electric instruments and Andrew does electrics. I
dunno if any of you guys have ever seen photos of
John Paul Jones from the last couple Led Zeppelin
tours (I've seen photos from 77, and a video of
Ten Years Gone from 79), where he's playing this
huge triple neck acoustic instrument (it had  6
string guitar, 12 string guitar, and mandolin
necks), that was built by Andrew, I believe. I
once saw a photo of a QUADRUPLE necked instrument
that added a tiple to the configuration. If
you've seen JPJ in concert recently, all the
basses that he used throughout the show were
built by Hugh. I imagine they're a bit pricey,
but I would guess that if you live in the UK and
you have the money to spend on whatever dream
instrument you have in your head, they may be one
possible option. 

=====
May you never thirst!
The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris

"What do you get when you give a yo-yo to a flock of flamingos?"-James Earl Jones

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

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Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 12:14:48 -0700
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: Kim Flint <kflint@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: RE: does anyone know when the edp will start to ship with loop
  IV
In-Reply-To: <r01050300-1015-C74D0E70822211D688A30003937B76DC@[10.0.1.30
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At 11:48 AM 6/17/2002, Greg Kucharo wrote:
>   Speaking of the upgrade, has anyone who bought it from the website
>with PayPal gotten it in the mail yet?
>    Those who didn't get the priority option of course.

have no fear, they are coming. We got a lot of orders all at once, as you 
might imagine. I'm working through them in the order they were received. A 
bunch went out this morning, and more will be going all this week.

kim



______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com

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Subject: Re: Mansons?
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 20:23:51 +0100
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thats the guy im thinking off !
i've sent him the url and he is gonna get back to me
fingers crossed  for me guys !

----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Chris Richards" <kohntarkosz@yahoo.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 8:05 PM
Subject: Re: Mansons?=20


> <<as i live in the uk im looking for a more local
>=20
>  luthier possisbley this guy www.mansons.co.uk>>
>=20
> I dunno if it meant it this way, but I get the
> impression you're unfamiliar with the work of
> Hugh and Andrew Manson. As I recall, Hugh builds
> electric instruments and Andrew does electrics. I
> dunno if any of you guys have ever seen photos of
> John Paul Jones from the last couple Led Zeppelin
> tours (I've seen photos from 77, and a video of
> Ten Years Gone from 79), where he's playing this
> huge triple neck acoustic instrument (it had  6
> string guitar, 12 string guitar, and mandolin
> necks), that was built by Andrew, I believe. I
> once saw a photo of a QUADRUPLE necked instrument
> that added a tiple to the configuration. If
> you've seen JPJ in concert recently, all the
> basses that he used throughout the show were
> built by Hugh. I imagine they're a bit pricey,
> but I would guess that if you live in the UK and
> you have the money to spend on whatever dream
> instrument you have in your head, they may be one
> possible option.=20
>=20
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> May you never thirst!
> The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris
>=20
> "What do you get when you give a yo-yo to a flock of flamingos?"-James =
Earl Jones
>=20
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
> http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
>=20

------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C2163C.E5368700
Content-Type: text/html;
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2716.2200" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT" size=3D2>thats the guy im thinking =
off=20
!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT" size=3D2>i've sent him the url and =
he is gonna=20
get back to me</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT" size=3D2>fingers crossed&nbsp; for =
me guys=20
!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT" size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>----- Original Message ----- </FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>From: "Chris Richards" &lt;</FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:kohntarkosz@yahoo.com"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>kohntarkosz@yahoo.com</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>&gt;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>To: &lt;</FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com</FONT></A><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>&gt;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 8:05 =
PM</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Subject: Re: Mansons? =
</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT" size=3D2></FONT><BR><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&gt; &lt;&lt;as i live =
in the uk im=20
looking for a more local<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &nbsp;luthier possisbley this =
guy=20
</FONT><A href=3D"http://www.mansons.co.uk"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>www.mansons.co.uk</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
<BR>&gt; I dunno if it meant it this way, but I get the<BR>&gt; =
impression=20
you're unfamiliar with the work of<BR>&gt; Hugh and Andrew Manson. As I =
recall,=20
Hugh builds<BR>&gt; electric instruments and Andrew does electrics. =
I<BR>&gt;=20
dunno if any of you guys have ever seen photos of<BR>&gt; John Paul =
Jones from=20
the last couple Led Zeppelin<BR>&gt; tours (I've seen photos from 77, =
and a=20
video of<BR>&gt; Ten Years Gone from 79), where he's playing =
this<BR>&gt; huge=20
triple neck acoustic instrument (it had&nbsp; 6<BR>&gt; string guitar, =
12 string=20
guitar, and mandolin<BR>&gt; necks), that was built by Andrew, I =
believe.=20
I<BR>&gt; once saw a photo of a QUADRUPLE necked instrument<BR>&gt; that =
added a=20
tiple to the configuration. If<BR>&gt; you've seen JPJ in concert =
recently, all=20
the<BR>&gt; basses that he used throughout the show were<BR>&gt; built =
by Hugh.=20
I imagine they're a bit pricey,<BR>&gt; but I would guess that if you =
live in=20
the UK and<BR>&gt; you have the money to spend on whatever dream<BR>&gt; =

instrument you have in your head, they may be one<BR>&gt; possible =
option.=20
<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<BR>&gt; May you never thirst!<BR>&gt; =
The Scuba Diver=20
Presently Known As Chris<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "What do you get when you give =
a yo-yo=20
to a flock of flamingos?"-James Earl Jones<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;=20
__________________________________________________<BR>&gt; Do You=20
Yahoo!?<BR>&gt; Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup<BR>&gt; =

</FONT><A href=3D"http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT =
face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT"=20
size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial>&gt;</FONT> </FONT></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C2163C.E5368700--

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Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 13:09:57 -0700
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I'm in San Diego and ordered it last Monday--believe that I will post when
it arrives and is safely installed.
Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: Kim Flint [mailto:kflint@loopers-delight.com]
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 12:15 PM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: RE: does anyone know when the edp will start to ship with loop
IV


At 11:48 AM 6/17/2002, Greg Kucharo wrote:
>   Speaking of the upgrade, has anyone who bought it from the website
>with PayPal gotten it in the mail yet?
>    Those who didn't get the priority option of course.

have no fear, they are coming. We got a lot of orders all at once, as you
might imagine. I'm working through them in the order they were received. A
bunch went out this morning, and more will be going all this week.

kim



______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com

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Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 13:17:27 -0700
From: Richard Zvonar <zvonar@zvonar.com>
Subject: Re: 1st EMERYVILLE LOOPING FESTIVAL?
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At 12:19 PM -0700 6/6/02, Anthony Justman wrote:
>IKEA is evil.
>
>send your wife, but never go there yourself.

I go there for lunch sometimes. Cheap Swedish meatballs.
-- 

______________________________________________________________
Richard Zvonar, PhD
(818) 788-2202
http://www.zvonar.com
http://RZCybernetics.com
http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz

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At 7:01 PM +0100 6/6/02, Stephen P. Goodman wrote:
>You're right!  One wishes Al Capp were with us still...!

Did you ever see the film of his conversation with John and Yoko 
during their "Bed Peace" event? He seemed somewhat less endearing.
-- 

______________________________________________________________
Richard Zvonar, PhD
(818) 788-2202
http://www.zvonar.com
http://RZCybernetics.com
http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz

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Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 15:04:18 -0700
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At 1:17 PM -0700 6/17/02, Richard Zvonar wrote:
>At 12:19 PM -0700 6/6/02, Anthony Justman wrote:
>>IKEA is evil.
>>
>>send your wife, but never go there yourself.
>
>I go there for lunch sometimes. Cheap Swedish meatballs.
>--
>

Not only that but the LACK tables are conveniently 19" between legs. 
I used one for a home studio rack once. Less than a dollar per R.U., 
can't beat that.

-Alex

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--- Steve Lawson <steve@steve-lawson.co.uk> wrote:

> any suggestions for a VERY small floor unit for patch changing? 

How about the Tech21 Midi Mouse? Or maybe the TC Electronic G-minor?

I haven't used either, but they both fit the description.

Greg

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

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From: Pedro Felix <pfelix28@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: granular looping- and a hush falls
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Mark-
nope. i'm finding it difficult to describe what (how)
I do what I do, it's a combination of feeding a fixed
delay into another delay and each of them is tweakable
in real time, pitch en toto, and also having one fixed
against one that is shifting sans pich making for a
sliced forward effect, sorta hypnotic.
i use an edp and a few digitech units. i've modded a
few switchs that help me do cv control in real which
is somtething that did in fact come through when i was
going though my heavy Fripp phase, overloading on
Exposure, and dh's Sacred Songs. i was/am impressed
with the effect he would get, and listened ltpf, and
it hit me, what rf does was almost the sound but he
didn't manipulate it in the direction that i lean
which is a bit more aggresive. that and shunning any
other effect make for something different.
so i kinda got some mojo from rf!
best, Pedro
--- Mark Sottilaro <sine@zerocrossing.net> wrote:
> Would what you're describing be akin to what Robert
> Fripp does with his
> soundscapes?  I used to play a lot with a similar
> effect, using a
> harmonizer where I could control the pitch with one
> pedal, and then
> control the delay time with another pedal.  This
> seemed like it was
> grandulating the sound, and pitchshifting it all
> over the place.  Having
> the feedback on high worked really well.  I kind of
> abandoned that
> effect when I started hearing it A LOT on stuff, but
> it's still fun.  To
> do it well, you've got to have the two pedals, and
> be sitting on a stool
> so you can work the both at the same time like some
> other looping
> guitarist we all know...
> 
> Mark Sottilaro
> 
> Pedro Felix wrote:
> 
> > hey Evan I think you may be on to something:
> > strange sometimes how i mentioned this subject
> several
> > times since October of last year, and when I
> mention
> > that I have been doing some form of what I call
> SONIC
> > Snowflaking the list goes limp.
> > now what I am attempting to do pushes the envelope
> > which is why I am interested in what others are
> doing,
> > et cetera.
> > otherwise the waters will part, Pedro Felix - NYC
> 2002
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

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Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 23:42:29 +0100
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> At 7:01 PM +0100 6/6/02, Stephen P. Goodman wrote:
> >You're right!  One wishes Al Capp were with us still...!
>
> Did you ever see the film of his conversation with John and Yoko
> during their "Bed Peace" event? He seemed somewhat less endearing.

Alas, one case where the legend tread in unfamiliar territory - in-person
encounters with the folks he made otherwise quite good fun of.  If you
recall though the whole Bed In thing was a bit of a joke to most folks.  I
think of the meeting of such two ends of the spectrum probably seemed like a
good idea at the time; in reality in the film from the event, I think that's
the point where I became aware that I'd been waiting for something
significant to happen for a while - but was mainly treated to a bunch of
reporters who seemed to be only slightly to the left of Al Capp, asking
"What does this mean?", answered by comments that were just not very well
appreciated by the reporters.  John seemed to be more annoyed at that
aspect, in my recollection, than anything else.

I'm not sure if John didn't think of it as a bit of a joke himself at the
time.  But then that's something from that old chestnut not read since '78
or so, Rolling Stone's "John Remembers!" (known to some of us as "...or DOES
he?", in which Yoko can't seem to keep from butting in during the interview
and correcting John.  The whole Bed-In thing really smacked of Yoko's touch,
after all, purposefully abstract, like the exhibit where John met Yoko
(reportedly), which included a ladder that one climbed, to read a small note
on the ceiling above it that simply said, "Yes".

And, no, I'm not a very big "Yoko fan".  But I liked the ladder idea.

Stephen P. Goodman
EarthLight Productions
*
http://www.earthlight.net/Studios - The Free Loop of the Week!
http://www.earthlight.net/Gallery_Front.html - Cartoons!
http://www.earthlight.net/HiddenTrack.html - More Cartoons!


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 17 19:06:32 2002
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Hi Pedro,

Any chance of your uploading some of this material for use to hear
online?  I sympathize with wanting to present your work for discourse...
but I also sympathize with the difficulty in discussing music most of us
can't hear!  ;)

Thanks,

--Andre

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Andre -

don't have the capabilities, sorry to say. but would
be quite happy to forward you a few discs for your
listening pleasure.
advise of shipping address and you can drop something
my way if i tickle your ear.
thanks, Pedro

--- Andre LaFosse <altruist@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi Pedro,
> 
> Any chance of your uploading some of this material
> for use to hear
> online?  I sympathize with wanting to present your
> work for discourse...
> but I also sympathize with the difficulty in
> discussing music most of us
> can't hear!  ;)
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> --Andre
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

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Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 20:11:59 -0400
From: David Beardsley <db@biink.com>
Subject: Re: granular looping- and a hush falls
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pedro Felix" <pfelix28@yahoo.com>

> Andre -
> 
> don't have the capabilities, sorry to say. but would
> be quite happy to forward you a few discs for your
> listening pleasure.
> advise of shipping address and you can drop something
> my way if i tickle your ear.
> thanks, Pedro

Let me know what you want on line and I'll whip up
a mp3.com page for you.

Thanks for yer coments about my fretless gtr playing
last week. I've been working on some new fretless material,
maybe I should do a Chama show in July?

* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

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Subject: summer tour dates
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hey loopers!
I am heading out for another swing guitaristically speaking and yes looping 
of sorts in a generally funk genre with the Tom Tom Club...
dates as follows. Find yourself in the vicinity of one of these gigs; the 
band can be a lot of fun...
have a great summer everybody and stay safe.
best,
Robby Aceto [RA]


Sat-July-06   Hudson, NY   The Port Of Hudson

Sat-July-20  Amagansett, NY   Talkhouse
Sun-July-21  Matunuck, RI      The Ocean Mist
Mon-July-22- OFF
Tue-July-23 Martha's Vineyard, MA   Atlantic Connection
Wed-July-24 Wellfleet, MA (Cape Cod)   Beachcomber
Thu-July-25  New Haven,CT   Toad's Place
Fri-July-26 New York, NY    Summerstage/Central Park w/the B-52's
Sat-July-27 Boston, MA   Fleet Pavillion w/the B-52's
Sun-July-28 Duanesburg, NY  Camp Creek Festival 
Mon-July-29 TBA
Tue- July-30 TBA
Wed-July-31 Winooski,VT   Higher Ground
Thur-Aug-01 Portland, ME    Asylum
Fri- Aug-02 Newport, RI  Area 22
Sat- Aug-03 Great Barrington, MA Club Helsinki

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In a message dated 6/17/02 10:30:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, dennis@mdbs.com 
writes:


> Does it
> "cancel" the forthcoming loop switch?  

yes

<<If so, does the Loop 'b' LED stop
flashing?>>

yes

<<And can you cancel the cancel by pressing A/B again?>>

yes

<<Does each loop have its own REVERSE setting?>>

no

<<Can you set B to play reversed and A
to play forward?>>

no

<<Say that you've recorded Loop A and pressed STOP.  You switch to Loop B 
(via
a press on A/B) then start to record it.>>

once you press "stop" you can not record a sec. loop.....you will only have A 
loop

<<You run out of memory while recording Loop B and all the LEDs turn-in.  Is
Loop A unchanged?>>

loop A is unchanged.....but when you run out of memory and the leds come on, 
when you press "play" you will get loop B to play, it does no default to loop 
A.....on to next point->

<<What happens if you press A/B at this point (with all the
LEDs on)?>>

you will engage loop A when you press play

<<Say that you have STACK set for latching behavior, you've recorded both
Loops A and B, and you're playing back Loop A.  Now you press STACK and
start overdubbing into Loop A.  What happens when you press A/B?  Does the
Boomerang switch to Loop B at the end of Loop A?  If so, are you overdubbing
(stacking) into Loop B?>>

after recording A and B you play A and hit stack and begin to over-dub, press 
A/B and at the end of loop A you go to loop B and the rang continues to 
"stack" onto loop B.....you can make it stop stacking by switching off the 
"stack" button.....the rang seems to work the way you think it will there 
dennis.....

i may be wrong on my answers, lets see what other rang-ers come up 
with.....michael

  


  

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 6/17/02 10:30:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, dennis@mdbs.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Does it<BR>
"cancel" the forthcoming loop switch?&nbsp; </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
yes<BR>
<BR>
&lt;&lt;If so, does the Loop 'b' LED stop<BR>
flashing?&gt;&gt;<BR>
<BR>
yes<BR>
<BR>
&lt;&lt;And can you cancel the cancel by pressing A/B again?&gt;&gt;<BR>
<BR>
yes<BR>
<BR>
&lt;&lt;Does each loop have its own REVERSE setting?&gt;&gt;<BR>
<BR>
no<BR>
<BR>
&lt;&lt;Can you set B to play reversed and A<BR>
to play forward?&gt;&gt;<BR>
<BR>
no<BR>
<BR>
&lt;&lt;Say that you've recorded Loop A and pressed STOP.&nbsp; You switch to Loop B (via<BR>
a press on A/B) then start to record it.&gt;&gt;<BR>
<BR>
once you press "stop" you can not record a sec. loop.....you will only have A loop<BR>
<BR>
&lt;&lt;You run out of memory while recording Loop B and all the LEDs turn-in.&nbsp; Is<BR>
Loop A unchanged?&gt;&gt;<BR>
<BR>
loop A is unchanged.....but when you run out of memory and the leds come on, when you press "play" you will get loop B to play, it does no default to loop A.....on to next point-&gt;<BR>
<BR>
&lt;&lt;What happens if you press A/B at this point (with all the<BR>
LEDs on)?&gt;&gt;<BR>
<BR>
you will engage loop A when you press play<BR>
<BR>
&lt;&lt;Say that you have STACK set for latching behavior, you've recorded both<BR>
Loops A and B, and you're playing back Loop A.&nbsp; Now you press STACK and<BR>
start overdubbing into Loop A.&nbsp; What happens when you press A/B?&nbsp; Does the<BR>
Boomerang switch to Loop B at the end of Loop A?&nbsp; If so, are you overdubbing<BR>
(stacking) into Loop B?&gt;&gt;<BR>
<BR>
after recording A and B you play A and hit stack and begin to over-dub, press A/B and at the end of loop A you go to loop B and the rang continues to "stack" onto loop B.....you can make it stop stacking by switching off the "stack" button.....the rang seems to work the way you think it will there dennis.....<BR>
<BR>
i may be wrong on my answers, lets see what other rang-ers come up with.....michael<BR>
<BR>
&nbsp; <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
&nbsp; <BR>
</FONT></HTML>
--part1_105.175a63aa.2a3fe191_boundary--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 17 21:26:52 2002
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References: <200206180103.VAA18325@hemlock.violacea.com>
Subject: Y2K2 LOOPFEST (3rd Annual Santa Cruz Looping Festival) limited call for participants
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Hi fellow loopers everywhere,

I am proud to announce the
largest gathering of live looping artists in history in one location:

Y2K2 LOOPFEST
(3rd Annual Santa Cruz Looping Festival)

On Saturday and Sunday, July 13th and 14th ....................a benefit for
and performance at the Cayuga Vault (Soquel and Cayuga)
in Santa Cruz, California.    Tickets for the two day festival are $20/both
days or $12/per day available at the door only.
There is very limited seating in the venue and there will be absolutely no
comp tickets because of the large number of
performers.   The Cayuga Vault is the last remaining, affordably rentable
performance art venue in Santa Cruz County and we are going to attempt (with
our wonderful community of loopers) to try and help them defray the $13,000
of permitting and entertainment licenses and upgrades that the City has just
recently demanded of them.

In the two day festival, there will be 30 minute performances by 30-40
loopers from all over the country.  There will also
be lecture demonstrations of some of the current hardware loopers by   Andre
LaFosse,  Bill Walker and Loop.pooL
(that's me, Rick Walker) on Saturday evening.  There will be software
designers and electronic music journalists in attendance as well.

There will also be a big brunch held at a local Santa Cruz eaterie on
Monday, July 15th for both performers and anyone else
interested......................brunch after Hans Lindauers' fabulous
Loopstock festival was one of the coolest, most informative
meals I've ever had in my life.


More details and a set lineup will be posted as soon as the lineup is set.
There are still spaces for a limited number of looping artists to
perform...........Due to incredibly difficult logistics, there are some
very, very stringent performance guidlines that must be observed by all
performers.   In my next e-mail, I will mail out a call to performers.

I'm really excited about this event...........it's going to be
wonderful..........the lineup is already incredible...........more on that
later.

yours,
Rick Walker  (Loop.pooL)

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 17 21:50:44 2002
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Subject: CALL FOR PERFORMERS:   Y2K2 LOOPFEST (aka 3rd annual santa cruz looping festival)
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Dear Loopers,

I would like to coridally invite you to come and perform
at the 3rd ANNUAL SANTA CRUZ LOOOPING FESTIVAL
on Saturday and Sunday, July 13th and 14th.  This is already shaping up to
be the largest
gathering of live loopers ever and we are going to have a blast.


There are a very limited number of spaces still available, so I will give
them out on a first come, first serve basis
to everyone who will submit a CD, cassette or mini disc of their work
(sorry, those are the only formats I own).
Please send submissions ASAP to:

Y2K2 LOOPFEST
c/o Rick Walker
412 Darwin Street
Santa Cruz, California

If you don't make this performance, don't fret.................more are
coming, I promise you................!!!!!


There are a lot of caveats for this performance (due to the very large
number of performers in a small amount of time).
PLEASE READ VERY CAREFULLY the text below to make sure that this Festival is
your cup of tea.

I'm in the midst of trying to have a commercial release of my live looping
CD,  "Translucent Dayglo Green Plastic"
in time for this event so I, unfortunately, do not have a lot of time for
correpondance.  Please forgive, in advance for
my craziness...............................well, here
'tis.................hope it looks good to you all.

ALSO, and this is important   DO NOT USE LOOPERS DELIGHT TO CORRESPOND WITH
ME!!!!
Please write me directly at GLOBAL@cruzio.com
I may not have time to read all the posts due to my heavy schedule of the
next month.

yours,  Rick Walker


DESCRIPTION and RULES of the FESTIVAL:

This entire festival will be a complete benefit for the
CAYUGA VAULT (in other words there will, regrettably, no
performers fees or expenses) which is the last
affordably rentable venue left in Santa Cruz County
from the ravages of the dot.com real estate wars.
The tickets will probably be $20/for both days
or $12/per day.

The festival will be a two day affair and will be a
'sampler' styled festival:  in other words, we will be
showcasing a large number of loopers (we're anticipating
between 30 and 40 loopers will perform from all over the country).

Before I talk about the logistical details for this festival
 I would like to apologize to you in advance for
asking you to participate for free and at your own travel expense.

It is, regrettably, the only way to make this event be successful
to help the CAYUGA VAULT stay in business, thus insuring the
future of looping  (and singersongwriter/modern dance/poetry)
events in Santa Cruz.

 It feels silly, frankly, to ask you to perform
for free and at the same time give out a large number of
rules for how the performance will go down.  Unfortunately,
in order to accomplish the scope of this festival which will, I am
hoping, be the largest event (in terms of number of performers)
in looping history,  we will have to be very communal, selfless
and disciplined about pulling it all off.

The whole point is to celebrate the diversity and incredible spirit
of our looping community again (thanks so much for Loopstock, Hans!!!!) and
to try to continue to promote creativity through
looping.   I hope you can make it.

OK, HERE"S ALL THE STUFF YOU WILL NEED TO KNOW
IN ORDER TO COME PERFORM:
 To  accomodate everyone (and to keep the production from
being a nightmare of logistics and communications) we will
adhere, very strictly to the following format:

Each person will have no more than:
20 minutes to set up there gear
(so keep your setups simple and portable)
30 minutes to perform
10 minutes to hustle gear off stage.

Everyone will get a 'last song signal' five minutes before their set is
scheduled to end and anyone who takes longer to set up than the allowed 20
minutes will, regrettably, have any extra time taken
off of their performance times.

As anyone who has ever played this kind of festival knows well,
everyone who wants to participate will need to be disciplined
and I , as stage manager, will be very strict about hustling people on and
off stage.
DON'T be offended by me..................nothing will be personal, I promise
you..........I'm
just tickled pink that you are here to play.


Please understand that by being a strong stage manager I
will just be trying to make sure everyone who wants to will have the same
chance to perform.


ALSO REMEMBER:
The venue is very small and only holds 75-90 audience members and there may
be 20 or 30 performers there at all times
 so in order to maximize the benefit to the Cayuga Vault
there will be, regrettably and consequently,

 NO COMPS AT ALL!!!!

There will be two stages (like the LoopStock  festival in SLO) but
in a much smaller venue.There will be a main stage with a good P.A. system
(powered mackies) and then there will be a blitzkrieg stage without a p.a.
for guitarists/bassists or any loopers who can bring in a small  portable
self powered soundsystem (solo amplifiers).

I hope you can make it.  I think we are going to have a blast doing it!!!

So I need to know if this interests you and I need to know a couple of
things from you:

1)  Do you want to perform?

2)  Which day is preferable for you to perform and at what time?
(I'll try my very best to accomodate everyone's wishes but please forgive me
if I can't grant every request around this one (just think about pleasing 40
people and you'll get where this might not work out perfectly).

3)  If you are coming in from out of town, would you like floor space to
crash out at one of the many local loopers homes?
Local loopers, I you can put someone
(or several people for that matter) during the weekend, I'd love it if you
would contact me so that I can coordinate sleeping arrangements.   I can
have a large and inglorious slumber party in and around my teaching studio
(ala Hans little Loopstock
slumber party)

Just let me know and thanks for wading through this whole proposal.

yours, in the spirit of creativity and community and looping,  Rick Walker
(loop.pool)



From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 17 23:08:53 2002
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Subject: Re: CALL FOR PERFORMERS:   Y2K2 LOOPFEST (aka 3rd annual santa cruz looping festival)
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yes!
please on the mackies. . .
saturday evening would be best for me but whatever
works is fine.

tim

On Mon, 17 June 2002, "Rick Walker/Loop.pooL" wrote

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> Subject: CALL FOR PERFORMERS:
> 	Y2K2 LOOPFEST (aka 3rd annual santa cruz looping
festival)
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> Old-Return-Path: <GLOBAL@cruzio.com>
> 
> Dear Loopers,
> 
> I would like to coridally invite you to come and
perform
> at the 3rd ANNUAL SANTA CRUZ LOOOPING FESTIVAL
> on Saturday and Sunday, July 13th and 14th.  This is
already shaping up to
> be the largest
> gathering of live loopers ever and we are going to
have a blast.
> 
> 
> There are a very limited number of spaces still
available, so I will give
> them out on a first come, first serve basis
> to everyone who will submit a CD, cassette or mini
disc of their work
> (sorry, those are the only formats I own).
> Please send submissions ASAP to:
> 
> Y2K2 LOOPFEST
> c/o Rick Walker
> 412 Darwin Street
> Santa Cruz, California
> 
> If you don't make this performance, don't
fret.................more are
> coming, I promise you................!!!!!
> 
> 
> There are a lot of caveats for this performance (due
to the very large
> number of performers in a small amount of time).
> PLEASE READ VERY CAREFULLY the text below to make
sure that this Festival is
> your cup of tea.
> 
> I'm in the midst of trying to have a commercial
release of my live looping
> CD,  "Translucent Dayglo Green Plastic"
> in time for this event so I, unfortunately, do not
have a lot of time for
> correpondance.  Please forgive, in advance for
> my craziness...............................well, here
> 'tis.................hope it looks good to you all.
> 
> ALSO, and this is important   DO NOT USE LOOPERS
DELIGHT TO CORRESPOND WITH
> ME!!!!
> Please write me directly at GLOBAL@cruzio.com
> I may not have time to read all the posts due to my
heavy schedule of the
> next month.
> 
> yours,  Rick Walker
> 
> 
> DESCRIPTION and RULES of the FESTIVAL:
> 
> This entire festival will be a complete benefit for
the
> CAYUGA VAULT (in other words there will, regrettably,
no
> performers fees or expenses) which is the last
> affordably rentable venue left in Santa Cruz County
> from the ravages of the dot.com real estate wars.
> The tickets will probably be $20/for both days
> or $12/per day.
> 
> The festival will be a two day affair and will be a
> 'sampler' styled festival:  in other words, we will be
> showcasing a large number of loopers (we're
anticipating
> between 30 and 40 loopers will perform from all over
the country).
> 
> Before I talk about the logistical details for this
festival
>  I would like to apologize to you in advance for
> asking you to participate for free and at your own
travel expense.
> 
> It is, regrettably, the only way to make this event
be successful
> to help the CAYUGA VAULT stay in business, thus
insuring the
> future of looping  (and singersongwriter/modern
dance/poetry)
> events in Santa Cruz.
> 
>  It feels silly, frankly, to ask you to perform
> for free and at the same time give out a large number
of
> rules for how the performance will go down. 
Unfortunately,
> in order to accomplish the scope of this festival
which will, I am
> hoping, be the largest event (in terms of number of
performers)
> in looping history,  we will have to be very
communal, selfless
> and disciplined about pulling it all off.
> 
> The whole point is to celebrate the diversity and
incredible spirit
> of our looping community again (thanks so much for
Loopstock, Hans!!!!) and
> to try to continue to promote creativity through
> looping.   I hope you can make it.
> 
> OK, HERE"S ALL THE STUFF YOU WILL NEED TO KNOW
> IN ORDER TO COME PERFORM:
>  To  accomodate everyone (and to keep the production
from
> being a nightmare of logistics and communications) we
will
> adhere, very strictly to the following format:
> 
> Each person will have no more than:
> 20 minutes to set up there gear
> (so keep your setups simple and portable)
> 30 minutes to perform
> 10 minutes to hustle gear off stage.
> 
> Everyone will get a 'last song signal' five minutes
before their set is
> scheduled to end and anyone who takes longer to set
up than the allowed 20
> minutes will, regrettably, have any extra time taken
> off of their performance times.
> 
> As anyone who has ever played this kind of festival
knows well,
> everyone who wants to participate will need to be
disciplined
> and I , as stage manager, will be very strict about
hustling people on and
> off stage.
> DON'T be offended by me..................nothing will
be personal, I promise
> you..........I'm
> just tickled pink that you are here to play.
> 
> 
> Please understand that by being a strong stage
manager I
> will just be trying to make sure everyone who wants
to will have the same
> chance to perform.
> 
> 
> ALSO REMEMBER:
> The venue is very small and only holds 75-90 audience
members and there may
> be 20 or 30 performers there at all times
>  so in order to maximize the benefit to the Cayuga
Vault
> there will be, regrettably and consequently,
> 
>  NO COMPS AT ALL!!!!
> 
> There will be two stages (like the LoopStock 
festival in SLO) but
> in a much smaller venue.There will be a main stage
with a good P.A. system
> (powered mackies) and then there will be a blitzkrieg
stage without a p.a.
> for guitarists/bassists or any loopers who can bring
in a small  portable
> self powered soundsystem (solo amplifiers).
> 
> I hope you can make it.  I think we are going to have
a blast doing it!!!
> 
> So I need to know if this interests you and I need to
know a couple of
> things from you:
> 
> 1)  Do you want to perform?
> 
> 2)  Which day is preferable for you to perform and at
what time?
> (I'll try my very best to accomodate everyone's
wishes but please forgive me
> if I can't grant every request around this one (just
think about pleasing 40
> people and you'll get where this might not work out
perfectly).
> 
> 3)  If you are coming in from out of town, would you
like floor space to
> crash out at one of the many local loopers homes?
> Local loopers, I you can put someone
> (or several people for that matter) during the
weekend, I'd love it if you
> would contact me so that I can coordinate sleeping
arrangements.   I can
> have a large and inglorious slumber party in and
around my teaching studio
> (ala Hans little Loopstock
> slumber party)
> 
> Just let me know and thanks for wading through this
whole proposal.
> 
> yours, in the spirit of creativity and community and
looping,  Rick Walker
> (loop.pool)

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 17 23:25:14 2002
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Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 20:14:49 -0700
From: Richard Zvonar <zvonar@zvonar.com>
Subject: Re: Looper Moving!
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At 11:42 PM +0100 6/17/02, Stephen P. Goodman wrote:

>If you recall though the whole Bed In thing was a bit of a joke to most folks.

It got some attention though, and that was the point.

It was also a way to associate the peace movement with a more 
light-hearted attitude, a welcome relief from self-immolation and 
street demonstrations.

>The whole Bed-In thing really smacked of Yoko's touch

Certainly. It was really a Fluxus anti-art sort of thing. As Lennon 
commented, people came in expecting some sort of orgy but it was just 
a couple of people hanging out and talking about peace and 
affirmation.

>And, no, I'm not a very big "Yoko fan".  But I liked the ladder idea.

Frankly, I wasn't at all aware of Yoko's art until she connected with 
John, but as I learned more about avant garde and conceptual art it 
became clear that Yoko was an important figure in that scene. I like 
her work.

-- 

______________________________________________________________
Richard Zvonar, PhD
(818) 788-2202
http://www.zvonar.com
http://RZCybernetics.com
http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun 18 02:51:43 2002
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I've never really understood the anti-Yoko sentiment so prevalent
amongst male Beatles fans. I incorporated some Yoko Ono loops on this
project:

http://www.tapegerm.com/n9/

You can get a free copy (this release is not commercially available) if
you order another Tapegerm CD and request it (or email me offlist with
your snail mail addy + I'll burn you a copy.) 

Scott

Richard Zvonar wrote:
> 
> 
> >And, no, I'm not a very big "Yoko fan".  But I liked the ladder idea.
> 
> Frankly, I wasn't at all aware of Yoko's art until she connected with
> John, but as I learned more about avant garde and conceptual art it
> became clear that Yoko was an important figure in that scene. I like
> her work.
> 

-- 
~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%
  Visit the the home of Hebephrenic, The Hot Buttered Elves, & Sunshine

                     http://www.tapehissrecordings.com

         and our sites at the world's largest online cut-out bin

                    http://mp3.com/hotbutteredelves
                      http://mp3.com/hebephrenica
                   http://mp3.com/sunshineallthetime
~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun 18 04:05:10 2002
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Subject: RE: FCB1010 MIDI Question
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 09:02:51 +0100
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>> Real midi newbie question- can the Behringer FCB1010 midi
>> pedal control more than one device?  The two would be a
>> Repeater and Lexi reverb.

>Yes. If you set up a buch of pads for the midi channel each device is
>listening to. The drawback is that midi channel assignment on the FCB1010
is
>global.

I thought I understood the original question but I'm not sure I understand
the answer.
Please forgive me if I've misunderstood.

I use an FCB1010 to control a Boss VF-1 and hope to add an additional MIDI
controlled unit in the near future, so although my use is different to that
suggested, it seems to be similar in context if not detail.

The FCB1010 has 100 patches (10 banks of 10 patches)

Each patch can send up to 5 program changes, 2 Controller signals and 2
continuous controller signals (via the expression pedals) and a MIDI note
signal.

As has been recorded, the MIDI channel of each of those 10 elements IS set
globally, however the fact that each patch can send so many messages means
that you could configure 'Program Change 1' on, say, MIDI channel 7 and
'Program Change 2' on MIDI channel 8 - set the Repeater to 'listen' on MIDI
channel 7 and the Lexi on channel 8 and already from one patch you can send
two different Program change signals to the two units at the same time. 

The availability of two control changes and two expression pedal changes
means from within the same patch you could send one controller change to the
Repeater and one to the Lexi and have real-time control of one function on
the Repeater and another on the Lexi from the two expression pedals.

The latest version of the FCB1010 software also allows you to configure a
patch to send Control changes 1 and 2 alternately each time you press the
pedal for that patch.

There certainly ARE limitations to the FCB1010, but there's an enormous
amount of flexibility in there...

I hope I've not'spoken' out of turn, just trying to add to the
'conversation' and add my 2 cents/ pence / insert your currency of choice
here

MattG 

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pf,

>hey Evan I think you may be on to something:
>strange sometimes how i mentioned this subject several
>times since October of last year, and when I mention
>that I have been doing some form of what I call SONIC
>Snowflaking the list goes limp.
no idea what evan said, here, but.....
for myself, i was not attempting to describe 'granular looping': i was just 
quoting kim flint's personal EDP-oriented explication thereof, for someone 
who wanted to know from whence said thread began.
anyway.....
there's no telling whatall this list might fancy, as far as threads go..... 

>now what I am attempting to do pushes the envelope
i'm certainly glad that you do what you do w/looping, p, but -for myself- 
i've come to realise that i've yet to see any 'envelope'..... 'envelope' 
(when it comes to music/art/looping) seems to be a social/consensual 
function, and thereby, somewhat suspect as regards any kinda *personal* 
benchmarks for expression.....

some people think that trey anastasio is pushing the 'envelope', some folks 
see radiohead as pushing the 'envelope', some believe that pauline oliveros 
pushes the 'envelope', some folks see fiona apple as p.t.e, some feel that 
garbage p.t.e., john adams, moby, etc etc.
so, where *is* the edge of the damned envelope?
i opine that:
if it's there, at all, it's gonna recede from view..... endlessly.

i'm babbling, again.....

>which is why I am interested in what others are doing,
tutto bene, dude.
best,
dt / splattercell

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Hedewa7@aol.com wrote:

> >now what I am attempting to do pushes the envelope
> i'm certainly glad that you do what you do w/looping, p, but -for myself-
> i've come to realise that i've yet to see any 'envelope'..... 'envelope'
> (when it comes to music/art/looping) seems to be a social/consensual
> function, and thereby, somewhat suspect as regards any kinda *personal*
> benchmarks for expression.....
>
> some people think that trey anastasio is pushing the 'envelope', some folks
> see radiohead as pushing the 'envelope', some believe that pauline oliveros
> pushes the 'envelope', some folks see fiona apple as p.t.e, some feel that
> garbage p.t.e., john adams, moby, etc etc.
> so, where *is* the edge of the damned envelope?
> i opine that:
> if it's there, at all, it's gonna recede from view..... endlessly.

I don't think there is any one envelope, but any individual can push their own
envelope, which simply means they are trying to do something new.
Probably anyone doing looping fits in this category!

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun 18 10:39:22 2002
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Subject: Re: re[2]: granular looping- and a hush falls
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nobody questions whether bootsy pushed the envelope follower, though...


>...
> some people think that trey anastasio is pushing the 'envelope', some folks 
> see radiohead as pushing the 'envelope', some believe that pauline oliveros 
> pushes the 'envelope', some folks see fiona apple as p.t.e, some feel that 
> garbage p.t.e., john adams, moby, etc etc.
> so, where *is* the edge of the damned envelope?
> i opine that:
> if it's there, at all, it's gonna recede from view..... endlessly.
> 
> i'm babbling, again.....
> 
> >which is why I am interested in what others are doing,
> tutto bene, dude.
> best,
> dt / splattercell
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun 18 10:51:52 2002
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what was it john called her?
something like "the most famous unknown artist in the world"
i didn't get it until i saw a show on pbs about conceptual art.
pretty cool stuff.  i liked "yes" a lot as well.

too bad she broke up the beatles...

>... 
> >And, no, I'm not a very big "Yoko fan".  But I liked the ladder idea.
> 
> Frankly, I wasn't at all aware of Yoko's art until she connected with 
> John, but as I learned more about avant garde and conceptual art it 
> became clear that Yoko was an important figure in that scene. I like 
> her work.
> 
> -- 
> 
> ______________________________________________________________
> Richard Zvonar, PhD


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun 18 11:46:02 2002
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From: Pedro Felix <pfelix28@yahoo.com>
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dt-
--- Hedewa7@aol.com wrote:
> pf,
> 
> >hey Evan I think you may be on to something:
> >strange sometimes how i mentioned this subject
> several
> >times since October of last year, and when I
> mention
> >that I have been doing some form of what I call
> SONIC
> >Snowflaking the list goes limp.
> no idea what evan said, here, but.....
> for myself, i was not attempting to describe
> 'granular looping': i was just 
> quoting kim flint's personal EDP-oriented
> explication thereof, for someone 
> who wanted to know from whence said thread began.
> anyway.....
> there's no telling whatall this list might fancy, as
> far as threads go..... 
> 

it seems pretty obvious to some.
> >now what I am attempting to do pushes the envelope
> i'm certainly glad that you do what you do
> w/looping, p, but -for myself- 
> i've come to realise that i've yet to see any
> 'envelope'..... 'envelope' 
> (when it comes to music/art/looping) seems to be a
> social/consensual 
> function, and thereby, somewhat suspect as regards
> any kinda *personal* 
> benchmarks for expression.....
> 

well when the same things are hailed as groundbreaking
and different, that's usually a bad sign.
personal, always. it's all i have. not much of an ego
though.

what i am doing is considerably different, but what we
all do is diffrent. but one listen to what i do shows
what most of us know, that I solo rather poorly;)

> 'envelope', some folks 
> see radiohead as pushing the 'envelope', some
> believe that pauline oliveros 
> pushes the 'envelope', some folks see fiona apple as
> p.t.e, some feel that 
> garbage p.t.e., john adams, moby, etc etc.
> so, where *is* the edge of the damned envelope?
> i opine that:
> if it's there, at all, it's gonna recede from
> view..... endlessly.

it should, because if you look at the edge of the
envelope, you're missing the trip altogether.
> 
> i'm babbling, again.....

me too
> >which is why I am interested in what others are
> doing,
> tutto bene, dude.
> best,
> dt / splattercell
> 
gracias bro, Pedro


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun 18 12:20:59 2002
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From: Pedro Felix <pfelix28@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: re[2]: granular looping- and a hush falls
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dt - 

good word i came across- yugen, best decribes what i'm
after. my imagination (art) displaying the other side
of what i am able to see. just a sense of the other
side, but digging (trusting) it.
pf
--- Hedewa7@aol.com wrote:
> pf,
> 
> >hey Evan I think you may be on to something:
> >strange sometimes how i mentioned this subject
> several
> >times since October of last year, and when I
> mention
> >that I have been doing some form of what I call
> SONIC
> >Snowflaking the list goes limp.
> no idea what evan said, here, but.....
> for myself, i was not attempting to describe
> 'granular looping': i was just 
> quoting kim flint's personal EDP-oriented
> explication thereof, for someone 
> who wanted to know from whence said thread began.
> anyway.....
> there's no telling whatall this list might fancy, as
> far as threads go..... 
> 
> >now what I am attempting to do pushes the envelope
> i'm certainly glad that you do what you do
> w/looping, p, but -for myself- 
> i've come to realise that i've yet to see any
> 'envelope'..... 'envelope' 
> (when it comes to music/art/looping) seems to be a
> social/consensual 
> function, and thereby, somewhat suspect as regards
> any kinda *personal* 
> benchmarks for expression.....
> 
> some people think that trey anastasio is pushing the
> 'envelope', some folks 
> see radiohead as pushing the 'envelope', some
> believe that pauline oliveros 
> pushes the 'envelope', some folks see fiona apple as
> p.t.e, some feel that 
> garbage p.t.e., john adams, moby, etc etc.
> so, where *is* the edge of the damned envelope?
> i opine that:
> if it's there, at all, it's gonna recede from
> view..... endlessly.
> 
> i'm babbling, again.....
> 
> >which is why I am interested in what others are
> doing,
> tutto bene, dude.
> best,
> dt / splattercell
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

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Subject: Re: Looper Moving!
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----- Original Message -----
From: "jim palmer" <jimp@pobox.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2002 15:50 PM
Subject: Re: Looper Moving!


> what was it john called her?
> something like "the most famous unknown artist in the world"
> i didn't get it until i saw a show on pbs about conceptual art.
> pretty cool stuff.  i liked "yes" a lot as well.
>
> too bad she broke up the beatles...

Yeah, except for the fact that Paul admitted that it was his decision in the
past year.  Don't get me wrong, I like bits of Yoko's work, and they stand
on their own.  But I think the fucillade of dis- mis- and non-information
that was flying around in 1970 and onwards has given us all stuff to argue
about for ages.

Dateline: 2370 - The 300th anniversary of the Beatles' breaking up, now
acknowledged to be a cosmological node in the fabric of the human universe,
has now been alleged to be caused by the 20th Century Elvis (as opposed to
the 22nd Century Elvis), in a political move to regain religious market
share.  This effort is now acknowledged to be successful.

Stephen P. Goodman
EarthLight Productions
*
http://www.earthlight.net/Studios - The Free Loop of the Week!
http://www.earthlight.net/Gallery_Front.html - Cartoons!
http://www.earthlight.net/HiddenTrack.html - More Cartoons!

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun 18 14:44:53 2002
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Hedewa7@aol.com wrote:

> so, where *is* the edge of the damned envelope?

I think the phenomena we're talking about has been going on forever.  I think
there are always going to be people that don't feel like they fit in to
mainstream culture, and therefore need to find ways to communicate in a way
that makes them stand out, and perhaps be admired.  Finding something "new"
sublimates the need to "fit in."

By the time mainstream media points to something and says, "Look, it's pushing
the envelope!"  It's probably on the order of decades old, but now discovered
and borrowed by someone who's got a foot firmly in the mainstream.  I'm sorry,
but the first time I heard Radiohead I thought, "Oooo, the Kinks have a new
album out, and it sounds kind of Pink Floydy"  Now there's adding more
electronica influenced production into their music, and that's great (I loved
Kid A) but they are on the cutting edge of nothing, in my opinion, but I don't
think that should influence anyone's opinion of their music.  Good is good, if
you like it.

Funny, I saw Laurie Anderson's "Whale Show" a few years ago, and unlike her
stuff in the late 70s and 80s I thought, "Oh, there's nothing here that
couldn't be done with hardware and software bought at The Guitar Center.  Now,
that's truly a big deal, IMO.  As technology prices plummet, and quality
soars, we're really going to see the advent of a new kind of "pop" star.  One
that can supersede the traditional album making process and go directly to the
people.  I think it's already happening.

Mark Sottilaro

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Subject: nyc gig
From: mr monk <monk@fuse.net>
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hey,

i'm going to be in new york for business (working with tony levin) and a 
radio station in nyc hooked me up with a brief solo set at the bitter 
end on friday night. the set is very brief (30 minutes or so) so if you 
are interested, don't be late!  thanks.

upcoming monk shows:

friday, june 21
The Bitter End
147 Bleecker Street
(between Thompson and LaGuardia)
New York City, NY 10012
Voice: (212) 673-7030

i'd love to meet any of you who can attend

info@bitterend.com
www.bitterend.com

monk@fuse.net

http://www.monkmusic.com

--Apple-Mail-41-1028665872
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hey,


i'm going to be in new york for business (working with tony levin) and
a radio station in nyc hooked me up with a brief solo set at the
bitter end on friday night. the set is very brief (30 minutes or so)
so if you are interested, don't be late!  thanks.


<bold><fontfamily><param>Verdana</param><color><param>FFFF,FFFF,FFFF</param><smaller>upcoming
monk shows:</smaller></color></fontfamily></bold><fontfamily><param>Times New Roman</param><bigger><bigger>


</bigger></bigger></fontfamily><bold><fontfamily><param>Verdana</param><color><param>0365,0365,0365</param><smaller>friday,
june 21</smaller></color></fontfamily></bold><fontfamily><param>Verdana</param><color><param>0365,0365,0365</param><smaller>

The Bitter End

147 Bleecker Street 

(between Thompson and LaGuardia)

New York City, NY 10012

Voice: (212) 673-7030


i'd love to meet any of you who can attend


<underline>info@bitterend.com </underline>

<underline>www.bitterend.com</underline></smaller></color></fontfamily><fontfamily><param>Times New Roman</param><color><param>0365,0365,0365</param><bigger><bigger>

</bigger></bigger></color></fontfamily>

monk@fuse.net


http://www.monkmusic.com
--Apple-Mail-41-1028665872--


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From: "Dennis Leas" <dennis@mdbs.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
References: <105.175a63aa.2a3fe191@aol.com>
Subject: Re: more Boomerang questions
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 15:50:03 -0500
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Many thanks for your answers, Michael!

Somehow, I have a few more questions... :)

<<Say that you've recorded Loop A and pressed STOP.  You switch to Loop =
B (via
a press on A/B) then start to record it.>>

>> once you press "stop" you can not record a sec. loop.....you will =
only have A loop

Wow!  I think I've had a misunderstanding about Loop A and Loop B.

How do you record Loop B?  Is there more than one way?  The manual talks =
about the following sequence:
1) Press RECORD.  Your playing is recorded into Loop A.
2) Press A/B.  Loop A stops recording and you immediately start =
recording into Loop B.
3) Now you can press:
    A/B - to stop recording Loop B and initiate Loop A playback
    STOP - to stop recording Loop B and then become idle (no playback)
    RECORD - to stop recording Loop B and initiate Loop B playback.

Once Loop B has been recorded, I can re-record Loop B, correct?

------------------

And here's another question, too!

How does the Slow or Stack LED operate?
The Boomerang manual states that this LED is on when SLOW speed is =
selected or when STACKing.  What if you're doing both?


Dennis Leas
-------------------
dennis@mdbs.com



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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2920.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY background=3D"" bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Many thanks for your answers, =
Michael!<BR><BR>Somehow, I have=20
a few more questions... :)<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>&lt;&lt;Say that you've recorded Loop A and pressed=20
STOP.&nbsp; You switch to Loop B (via<BR>a press on A/B) then start to =
record=20
it.&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; once you press "stop" you can not record a =
sec.=20
loop.....you will only have A loop<BR><BR>Wow!&nbsp; I think I've had a=20
misunderstanding about Loop A and Loop B.</FONT><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>How do you record Loop B?&nbsp; Is there more than =
one=20
way?&nbsp; The manual talks about the following sequence:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>1) Press RECORD.&nbsp; Your playing is recorded into =
Loop=20
A.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>2) Press A/B.&nbsp; Loop A stops recording and you =
immediately=20
start recording into Loop B.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>3) Now you can press:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; A/B - to stop recording Loop B =
and initiate=20
Loop A playback</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; STOP - to stop recording Loop B =
and then=20
become idle (no playback)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; RECORD - to stop recording Loop B =
and=20
initiate Loop B playback.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Once Loop B has been recorded, I can re-record Loop =
B,=20
correct?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>------------------</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>And here's another question, too!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>How does the Slow or Stack LED operate?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>The Boomerang manual states that this LED is on when =
SLOW=20
speed is selected or when STACKing.&nbsp; What if you're doing=20
both?<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><BR>Dennis=20
Leas<BR>-------------------<BR>dennis@mdbs.com<BR><BR></FONT></DIV></BODY=
></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun 18 17:10:14 2002
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I have one of the original "Gibson" Echoplexes with firmware 3.3. It actually does pretty much everything I'd like (that damn input/output level  thing is horrid but I can't complain about the software)

I was thinking about upgrading to 5.0 but didn't really care either way. I figure since some people might be upgrading to the new Aurisis software they'd be getting rid of that nasty ol' 5.0 stuff which bottom feeders like myself could actually use.

So, if you're one such person and you might be interested in trading something small or whatever for your old software please let me know. I'm sure I have some crusty stompbox or certainly some cool loop/electronic music CDs I could swap. I'm not trying to
lowball but if it's too much money I might as well just by the new one (which I'll probably do anyway down the road) but this is a good intermediate step.

Thanks for any/all help!






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In a message dated 6/18/02 4:50:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dennis@mdbs.com 
writes:

<<A/B - to stop recording Loop B and initiate Loop A playback
    STOP - to stop recording Loop B and then become idle (no playback)
    RECORD - to stop recording Loop B and initiate Loop B playback.>>

this is 100% correct

<<Once Loop B has been recorded, I can re-record Loop B, correct?>>

wow, i dont think so, you can stack on loop B but i think you could use a 
shorter "feedback" and let loop B fade away and then re-record something new 
on a then empty B

<<The Boomerang manual states that this LED is on when SLOW speed is selected 
or when STACKing.  What if you're doing both?>>

you have a red and a green LED.....red will be lit when you are in a slower 
speed and green will lite when you are in "stack" mode.....ymmv.....michael



 


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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 6/18/02 4:50:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dennis@mdbs.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
&lt;&lt;A/B - to stop recording Loop B and initiate Loop A playback</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; STOP - to stop recording Loop B and then become idle (no playback)</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; RECORD - to stop recording Loop B and initiate Loop B playback.&gt;&gt;<BR>
<BR>
this is 100% correct<BR>
<BR>
&lt;&lt;Once Loop B has been recorded, I can re-record Loop B, correct?&gt;&gt;<BR>
<BR>
wow, i dont think so, you can stack on loop B but i think you could use a shorter "feedback" and let loop B fade away and then re-record something new on a then empty B<BR>
<BR>
&lt;&lt;The Boomerang manual states that this LED is on when SLOW speed is selected or when STACKing.&nbsp; What if you're doing both?&gt;&gt;<BR>
<BR>
you have a red and a green LED.....red will be lit when you are in a slower speed and green will lite when you are in "stack" mode.....ymmv.....michael<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 19 00:00:26 2002
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From: "Emile Tobenfeld (a.k.a Dr. T)" <emile@foryourhead.com>
Subject: Video Performance/Fort Point Solstice Celebration  Boston MA
 6.21.02
Cc: eyecandy@egroups.com, boss-improv@topica.com, iotacenter@egroups.com,
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Hi folks. I'll be doing video improvisations as part  the following 
event, which should be quite a shindig. I'll be going on at the Necco 
Court party when it gets dark enough to see my work, probably around 
8:30, and  will continue projecting for the duration . Directions to 
the Necco Court party at the bottom of the message.

ART AND SOL
A SUMMER SOLSTICE PARADE & PARTY
FORT POINT CULTURAL COALITION (FPCC)
LAUNCHES ITS 2D ANNUAL PUBLIC ART SERIES

What:
ART AND SOL: A SUMMER SOLSTICE PARADE & PARTY: Fort Point Cultural 
Coalition (FPCC) launches its 2d Annual Public Art Series. With 
Public Art by: Claire Eder, Margaret B. Tittemore, Don Eyles, Eric 
Legacy, Melora Kuhn, Nancy Adams and Slavco Sokolovski AND Live Music 
and Performances by Tarbox Ramblers, DJ Flack, Somer Waters, Dr. T, 
The And So No Sin Performance Troupe and a special fire performance 
by ANTHELION

When:
Friday, June 21st, 5:00 to 9:30 pm, rain or shine. [Includes PUBLIC 
ART RECEPTION, 5:00-7:00 pm, on the Summer St. Bridge; BIKE PARADE, 
6:30 pm, meet, with your decorated bike, at the Summer St. Bridge; 
BLOCK PARTY, with food, and featuring music and entertainment by 
Tarbox Ramblers, DJ Flack, Somer Waters, Dr. T and ANTHELION, 
7:00-10:30 pm, at Necco Court Parking Lot.]

Where:
Outside, rain or shine, Summer St. Bridge and Necco Court Parking 
Lot, in the Fort Point Channel area of South Boston; near South 
Station and the Childrens' Museum

Tickets:
Free and open to all; for more information call Mobius at 617-542-7416

(Boston) Once again, members of New England's largest artists' 
community are taking over Boston's Fort Point neighborhood, turning 
bridges into musical instruments, an industrial block into a nature 
walk and literally floating their art for all to see. Focused on 
expanding the visibility of this vibrant and vocal community, the 
Fort Point Cultural Coalition (FPCC) is continuing its ambitious 
public art series. This year's events commenced in April with the 
successful "Fort Point Vision for Public Art: A Multidisciplinary 
Charrette" hosted by Ricardo Barreto, Christina Lanzl and Jed Speare. 
The Art and Sol: A Summer Solstice Parade & Party will spill the 
spirit of that charrette out onto the sidewalks and into the channel. 
Public and performing artists will have a field day merrily making a 
creative splash on the water and streets of Fort Point. They will 
also regale the audience with a rollicking reception, a rolling bike 
parade, and a rockin', reelin' block party!

The solstice public art lineup includes:
*Bike Parade - a decorated bike parade, beginning and ending on the 
Summer St. Bridge [pre-solstice decoration opportunities: June 
15th-16th,Sat.-Sun., 10:00 am-4:00 pm, at 205 A St., 2d floor] - 
organized by Melora Kuhn
*Bridge Play - 100 sets of chimes hung along the Summer St. Bridge - 
by Claire Eder
*Labyrinth - a bright blue tape labyrinth (a second one is located on 
the Children's Museum wharf) - by Margaret B. Tittemore
*Peer Amid - a new floating sculpture in the Fort Point Channel - by Don Eyles
*Spray Bomb -- a large welded sculpture of a bug repellent aerosol 
can - by Eric Legacy
*Super Art vs. Super Commerce - the penultimate showing of a 
week-long series of battles to the death between the artists' 
community and the developers [pre-solstice performance battles: June 
17th-20th, Mon. & Wed., 5:00-6:00 pm, Tues. & Thurs., noon-1:00 pm; 
post-solstice performance battle: June 22d, Sat., noon-1:00 pm, all 
leaving from outside Mobius, 354 Congress St.] - The And So No Sin 
Performance Troupe
*Time Lies - a series of round clocks set in the lampposts of the 
Summer St. Bridge evoking the countdown to artist and other tenant 
evictions - Nancy Adams and Slavco Sokolovski

Directions to Necco Court party:

Short 5 Minute walk from South Station RedLine
Go over Summer St Bridge. Take 1st Right on Melcher.
First Right on Necco St.
First Right onto Necco Ct. Walk to the end of the street toward water.
FYI There is NO parking on premises for guests.
We will arrange parking for you

Some parking on Melcher St and Summer St.
There are public parking gar


-- 

Visit "Before the Fall -- Images of the World Trade Center" at 
http://www.foryourhead.com

"There were so many things there that are not anywhere else in the 
world. There were millions of people, the strange reflective bars of 
the buildings and the shiny and shimmering towers that seemed like a 
fairy tale"   -- David-Michael Cook

		Emile Tobenfeld, Ph. D.
Video Producer			Image Processing Specialist
Video for your HEAD!			Boris FX
http://www.foryourhead.com		http://www.borisfx.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 19 06:48:57 2002
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From: Sunao Inami <cave@pop1.osk.3web.ne.jp>
Subject: "Looper's Delight J" webcast loop performance. we need loops!
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Hello Loopers,

We are planning "Looper's Delight J" web cast loop performance from Kobe,Japan.
In this time is 3rd round,2nd was 2001,1st was 1998..
Details are below:

http://cavestudio.com/LD_J
or
http://cavestudio.com/LD_J/2002

Contribute your Loops!
We invite the net to enter the materials and textures of loops by mp3 for 
our "Looper's Delight J" live gig.
We can accept upload your loops via FTP.

The performers use them and we are live streaming the gig by Real System.
You can hear your uploaded sounds by mixed or edited and looped by the 
performers via Internet.
Then Internet is big loop.
After the show,uploaded loops are free for use everyone,it free download 
via FTP.
Happy Connection and Looping.

In last time,uploaded loop materials for Looper's Delight J performance are 
below:
http://www.cavestudio.com/LD_J/2001/uploaded_loops.html


if you have interesting our project,please upload your sounds via FTP.

Please connect to :
HOST
www.cavestudio.co.uk

LOGIN
looper

PASSWORD
heaven

Requested to send in loops not later than 10th July 2002.
This account is upload/download only.You can not delete files and make new 
folders.


  Regards

  Sunao Inami
http://www.cavestudio.com


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 19 13:41:17 2002
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Subject: Re: Ableton Live questions
From: e o <listenup@soundsliketree.com>
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        Os <lists@collective.co.uk>, <kevin@unitcircle.com>
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hey there! 

>> There is one "master" bus in the app right?  Is there any way to create
> multiple master busses (for quad)?  I know that you can assign channels to
> other outputs of your sound card, but can you assign multiple channels to
> the the same outputs as a workaround?

not sure.

>> 
>> The EM review sort of contradicted itself.  It said that LIVE supported
> MIDI Clock, but then it also said that the new 1.5 version would support
> MIDI clock.  Does it or doesn't it?

it always had clock in. 1.5 added clock out.


>> 
>> Is there one loop per channel or multiple loops per channel, but only one
> active at a time?

the latter.

>> 
>> Is there support for no synchronization?  Can I have multiple
> non-synchronous loops going or will all loops be stretched to match the
> tempo (or a subdivision of the tempo)?

this is being worked on now for the next upgrade.  this "feature" is in high
demand.


live,
eo

--
Eric Oberthaler
Composer | Performer | Teacher
http://www.ericoberthaler.com




From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 19 14:35:06 2002
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From: "Clifford Novey" <om@Om-Studios.com>
To: "Loopers Delight" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: EDP Upgrade recieved- 
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 11:33:01 -0700
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Yo-=20

I just recieved the upgrade in the mail- I ordered about 5 minutes after =
Kim announced it to the list-=20

The Upgrade Manual is made of real paper! Thank you! I so prefer this to =
e-docs!!

Also- this upgrade is gigantomongus- I'd say this manual is almost as =
big as the original full version-=20

The ROMs were packaged extremely well in a hinged electrostatic =
container and the ROMs even get spiffy printed labels this time! What =
more could we ask for?

Looking forward to getting home and installing them-=20

Cliff
http://www.om-studios.com

------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C21785.11C668A0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Yo- </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I just recieved the upgrade in the mail- I ordered =
about 5=20
minutes after Kim announced it to the list- </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>The Upgrade Manual is made of real paper! Thank you! =
I so=20
prefer this to e-docs!!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Also- this upgrade is gigantomongus- I'd say this =
manual is=20
almost as big as the original full version- </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>The ROMs were packaged extremely well in a hinged=20
electrostatic container and the ROMs even get spiffy printed labels this =
time!=20
What more could we ask for?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Looking forward to getting home and installing them- =

</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Cliff</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.om-studios.com">http://www.om-studios.com</A></FONT></=
DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C21785.11C668A0--


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 19 16:26:07 2002
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From: "Colin Bradley" <colin@dual.co.uk>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: D U A L < > I N F O [ june 2002 ]
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...thought some people 'round here' may be interested in the
following...

C


>>>>>>>


Welcome to the DUAL info newsletter for June 2002.

Coombe Records presents...

MidRange

electr(o)nica / minimal techno / instrumental / post digital

djs
Dual
Jim Westlake
Richard Leach

visuals
Cassette41

7pm - 11:30pm free entry
Friday 21st June 2002
The Foundry, 86 Grt. Eastern St. London EC2
(nearest tube Old Street)

Coombe Productions tel: 0207 2636796
info@coomberecords.com
http://www.coomberecords.com

............................................................

::: Evelyn Records :::
Evelyn Records have just released a brand new compilation
CDr called Pylons and Telegraph Poles featuring an exclusive
Dual remix of Crain (KRNY-M) taken from the Dual Caste CD
album originally released on CEE recordings in 2000. This
mix as not been available before so is exclusive to this
compilation. Other artists featured on the CD are Culver,
iD, Arabella's Parade, Rob Galpin, Johann Wlight,
Amberlight, Nixxos Lexxos, Karina ESP. The album comes with
individual polaroid covers, with full colour sleeve. More
info at the Evelyn Records website
http://www.evelynrecords.cjb.net

............................................................

New to the Dual website is a links page. Please take time
out to have a look at http://www.dual.co.uk If you would
like to trade a link with Dual please get in touch at
info@dual.co.uk with Links in the Subject field.

............................................................

Other D U A L news...

::: Coombe Records :::
The brand new Dual album Keimar Sty is now available.
Keimar Sty features five brand new tracks and is the first
release on the new label Coombe Records. As always all the
sounds on this release are from the guitar and this second
full CD release features Dual exploring rhythms and
percussion coaxed from the guitar while applying various
treatments and manipulation. Although some traditional
methods of playing the guitar have been employed on the
recordings of this album the finished mixes show no real
sign of a plucked guitar string. Drones and textures are
interwoven with clicks, pops and buzz from the electronics
with subtle bass rhythm to create a soundbed of drifting
melancholic ambience. This album features Colin Bradley
co-writing and producing with new collaborators George
Richardson (Coombe Records / Cassette41) and Alice Kemp
(Germ Seed). All Coombe Records releases are available
through good record shops and the selected outlets and mail
order distributors listed below. Keimar Sty is also
available direct from Dual / Coombe Records via mail order
please see info below for availability and latest prices.

Dual bring together a variety of tonal textures and a
minimal percussive 'sound' that neither soothes nor screams
or tears at your inner ears with distorted guitar resonance.
The guitar is unrecognisable and virtually synthetic in
creating an uneven corpus of organised, punctuated noise,
manifesting the mantras of electronic spitting utterances
into song-like structures... Noisegate magazine

The ambient soundscapes of Dual hover in a slightly rough
neverworld awash in the grey movements of vast
guitar-noise-drones and decorated with other
unexpectations... AmbiEntrance

Dual mold gentle drones along steel-wool scrubbed train
tracks, before the shifting, swirling drones make a
crackling connection to staggered, looped percussive
textures that sound both mechanical and of a soft, wooden
origin... Sidelines Magazine

Keimar Sty is a supremely confident follow up to the
excellent Caste CD. This takes a trip into the darker realms
of ambient electronics, bringing to mind some of Pete
Namlooks early experiments in sound manipulation. At other
times you could be floating underwater with the beautifully
reduced sounds and textures. Brilliant material,
recommended... Smallfish Records

::: Evelyn Records :::
Pylons and Telegraph Poles - various artists
A brand new compilation CD featuring an exclusive Dual remix
of Crain (KRNY-M) taken from the Dual Caste CD album
originally released on CEE recordings in 2000
cd-r featuring: iD, Culver, Dual, Arabella's Parade, Rob
Galpin, Johann Wlight, Amberlight, Nixxos Lexxos, Karina ESP
[individual Polaroid covers, with full colour sleeve in
jewel case] more info at the Evelyn Records website
http://www.evelynrecords.cjb.net

::: Fear Drop magazine :::
Dual are featured in the latest issue (#8) of Fear Drop
magazine. The magazine includes a four page interview with
Dual as well as articles on Panasonic, Muslimgauze,
Biosphere, Fennesz, Nurse With Wound and label features on
Raster-Noton and Dorobo. There is also an accompanying
compilation CD with an exclusive Dual track, 70dN. Other
artists include Panasonic, Porter Ricks, Piccolo Saxo, The
Infant Cycle, Darrin Verhagen, Rob(u)rang, plus others.
Further info from feardrop@wanadoo.fr

.....................................................

Releases now available from Dual........

Dual-Drimon.....................................
(7'') £2.50 (UK pounds sterling)

Dual-Caste.......................................
(CD) £10.00 (UK pounds sterling)

Dual-Keimar Sty................................
(CD) £10.00 (UK pounds sterling)

Pylons and Telegraph Poles-Various.....
(CDr) £5.00 (UK pounds sterling)

Network Volume II-Various................
(CD) £10.00 (UK pounds sterling)

Four Years in Thirty Seconds-Various...
(CD) £10.00 (UK pounds sterling)

FearDrop #8...................................
(French language magazine + CD) £5.50 (UK pounds sterling)

All prices are inclusive of P & P in the UK only.
For Europe add £0.50 per 7" single, £1.00 per CD or magazine
/ CD.
Rest of the World / USA please add £1.00 per 7" single, and
£2.00 per CD or magazine / CD.

PAYMENT METHODS
All cheques / PO's payable to COLIN BRADLEY.
We can also accept PAYPAL money transfers, for more info
visit http://www.paypal.com and go to the send money option
to set up an account, all PAYPAL transactions should be sent
to colin@dual.co.uk
Please be aware that PAYPAL now charge an extra fee for
credit card payments to the receiver of funds. If paying by
PAYPAL please write first to confirm exact price details,
thank you. We are looking into alternative on line payment
methods so if you know of alternative money transfer sites
please send details to info@dual.co.uk and mark the subject
heading ONLINE PAYMENT INFO.
We also accept well concealed UK cash (UK pounds sterling
only) but will not accept responsibility for loss in
transit, this is done at the senders own risk.

Send all payment / correspondence to:
Dual c/o 13 Clarence Avenue, DN4 8AU. England.
Please include SAE / IRC with all enquiries to guarantee a
response.
NB. This address is for postal collection only, no personal
callers.


Selected Coombe Records / Dual stockists...

Smallfish, Old St London
Rough Trade, Covent Garden London
Koobla, Berwick St London
Sound 323, Archway Road London
Rare and Racy, Devonshire Street Sheffield
Neurotitan, Rosenthaler Str 39 10178 Berlin Germany

...or by mailorder from:

Dual c/o 13 Clarence Avenue, DN4 8AU. England.
Fear Drop, 3 Rue de Damville 27 240 Les Essarts France
Manifold Records, Box 820266 Memphis TN 38182 USA
Drone Records, Bohnenstrasse 14 28203 Bremen Germany
Fourth Dimension/Adverse Effect, PO Box 63 Herne Bay Kent UK
Noisegate, PO Box 15149 London WC1X 0HJ

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

sorry if you receive this email more than once through
various sources, or if your address was added to our
database by mistake, it's not our intention to bombard you
with more information than even we would want but if you
would rather not receive this (ir)regular information please
reply to this email with remove in the subject field.
thank you...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




Email ::: info@dual.co.uk
Dual ::: http://www.dual.co.uk
Coombe Records ::: http://www.coomberecords.com
Drone Records ::: http://radiantslab.com/DroneRecords
Evelyn Records ::: http://www.evelynrecords.cjb.net
Maxis ::: http://www.maxis.org.uk
Mystery Sea ::: http://www.home.planetinternet.be/~chalkdc


>>>>>>>>>



From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 19 17:22:16 2002
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Subject: Re: News from Swirlee
From: Steve Sandberg <stevesandberg@earthlink.net>
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> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

--MS_Mac_OE_3107351764_614763_MIME_Part
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

>From swirlee@hotmail.com

hey everyone--

congrats to matthias, kim, and eric on their development and release
of the echoplex digital IV tardis sonic ripplemaker and
tzolkin-follower (www.aurisis.com) . i wish i had one to play with.

we have also had the pleasure of hosting giba from brazil in a duo
with steve sandberg. giba is very gifted with rhythm and drum. through
the doorway opened by this music and dancing, people were healed.
that's what has been said. so thank you!

meanwhile, here is our evolution update-
\
musical instrument,
dogon listening device:

me and eddie have been working on the listening device, using our
voices (whistles, beatboxes, gurgles, etc) to improvise and loop time.

there are now audio streams up on our website detailing our
sexperiments:

http://www.cloud9.net/~jpekau/tp

the listening device allows us to freeze phrases of improvised
material and retrigger them using the keyboard. different phrases can
be locked together through time axes, which provide a basic quantized
meter for the piece. the goal is to blur and dissolve the lines
between improvisation and structure, where the structure rises
spontaneously and fluidly out of the channel. we simultaneously direct
the flow of the groove and improvise new grooves. thus, we redesign
time as art.

if you would like to play with the listening device, please email me.
you will need a linux computer, and a bit of willpower.

once we secure more funding, we will be improving the user interface
to allow multiple shamans to jam together, triggering each other's
vocalizations. we would like to create playable playground structures
for kids of all ages.

since previous notice, we can now:

- erase previous loops
- volume adjust running loops
- volume adjust globally
- quantize to multiple time axes

next in linear time leading to progress, wealth, and generally total
world domination:

- saving sets of phrases to disk
- sync to external time axes
- independent pitch and tempo shifting
- building larger phrases using triggered improvisations of smaller
phrases (codename: fractal hierarchy doohicky)

now, the focus is back to singing and dancing. we hope to experiment
in collaboration with steve sandberg, ragapop shaman, and with ritual
intention, group chanting, touch, at times using the listening device
and other loopy tools to carve little tunnels to worlds calling out to
human heart.

see you in the dreamtime, gnawa-ii.



--MS_Mac_OE_3107351764_614763_MIME_Part
Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: News from Swirlee</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"4">From swirlee@hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"4">hey everyone--<BR>
<BR>
congrats to matthias, kim, and eric on their development and release<BR>
of the echoplex digital IV tardis sonic ripplemaker and<BR>
tzolkin-follower (www.aurisis.com) . i wish i had one to play with.<BR>
<BR>
we have also had the pleasure of hosting giba from brazil in a duo<BR>
with steve sandberg. giba is very gifted with rhythm and drum. through<BR>
the doorway opened by this music and dancing, people were healed.<BR>
that's what has been said. so thank you!<BR>
<BR>
meanwhile, here is our evolution update-<BR>
\<BR>
musical instrument,<BR>
dogon listening device:<BR>
<BR>
me and eddie have been working on the listening device, using our<BR>
voices (whistles, beatboxes, gurgles, etc) to improvise and loop time.<BR>
<BR>
there are now audio streams up on our website detailing our<BR>
sexperiments:<BR>
<BR>
<FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>http://www.cloud9.net/~jpekau/tp<BR>
</U></FONT><BR>
the listening device allows us to freeze phrases of improvised<BR>
material and retrigger them using the keyboard. different phrases can<BR>
be locked together through time axes, which provide a basic quantized<BR>
meter for the piece. the goal is to blur and dissolve the lines<BR>
between improvisation and structure, where the structure rises<BR>
spontaneously and fluidly out of the channel. we simultaneously direct<BR>
the flow of the groove and improvise new grooves. thus, we redesign<BR>
time as art.<BR>
<BR>
if you would like to play with the listening device, please email me.<BR>
you will need a linux computer, and a bit of willpower.<BR>
<BR>
once we secure more funding, we will be improving the user interface<BR>
to allow multiple shamans to jam together, triggering each other's<BR>
vocalizations. we would like to create playable playground structures<BR>
for kids of all ages.<BR>
<BR>
since previous notice, we can now:<BR>
<BR>
- erase previous loops<BR>
- volume adjust running loops<BR>
- volume adjust globally<BR>
- quantize to multiple time axes<BR>
<BR>
next in linear time leading to progress, wealth, and generally total<BR>
world domination:<BR>
<BR>
- saving sets of phrases to disk<BR>
- sync to external time axes<BR>
- independent pitch and tempo shifting<BR>
- building larger phrases using triggered improvisations of smaller<BR>
phrases (codename: fractal hierarchy doohicky)<BR>
<BR>
now, the focus is back to singing and dancing. we hope to experiment<BR>
in collaboration with steve sandberg, ragapop shaman, and with ritual<BR>
intention, group chanting, touch, at times using the listening device<BR>
and other loopy tools to carve little tunnels to worlds calling out to<BR>
human heart.<BR>
<BR>
see you in the dreamtime, gnawa-ii.<BR>
</FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"4"><BR>
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 20 00:21:43 2002
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Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 00:18:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: Elio DeLuca <elio@telepathyrecords.com>
Subject: Boston area gig spam - dosage @ out of the blue gallery, cambridge
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Lots n' lots of looping, albeit of the noisy kind....

----------------------------------------------------------------
a.i.m. > presents > "the sketchpad" in exile (but not for long)

Friday, June 21st, 2002

dosage

Out of the Blue Art Gallery
168 Brookline St. (Central Square)
Cambridge, Mass

$6 / doors at 8pm

Take the Red Line to Central Square
Out of the Blue is six blocks down
Brookline St. from the Middle East

http://aim.telepathyrecords.com

dosage is a Boston-based noise artist who, for most of 2002, has been
mesmerizing, stupefying, and annoying audiences on both sides of the river
with his psychedelic blend of sound-collage and harsh noise, made from
electrical hum, distorted theremins, and thick, erotic feedback. His
influences include bad relationships, broken kitchen appliances, the sound
of empty rooms while on drugs, and James Jamerson (bassist on every great
Motown record). This performance, and his upcoming album "One Way Down,"
are presented by a.i.m.

a.i.m. (advanced idea mechanics) is a newly-launched freeform collective
dedicated to the advancement of fringe independent music, and the
deconstruction of the stagnant commercial mainstream. a.i.m. functions as
a subsidiary of local independent label Telepathy Records, both overseen
by Elio DeLuca. a.i.m. curates "the sketchpad" concert series, which
highlights artists from a wide variety of marginalized sonic art forms,
including noise, loop, ambient, IDM, free improv, and sonic dance.
Formerly taking place at the Zeitgeist Gallery, the sketchpad is now
revolving among various alternate spaces, until the triumphant return of
the Zeitgeist in its new location, scheduled for July 2002.

More info at:  http://aim.telepathyrecords.com

Peace!

+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
 Telepathy Records                                         (617) 504-8278
 P.O. Box 230484                                info@telepathyrecords.com
 Boston, MA 02123                                www.telepathyrecords.com

   To be added to our mailing list write to <info@telepathyrecords.com>
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 20 06:22:47 2002
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From: "JAMES R FOWLER, III" <jimfowler@prodigy.net>
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Subject: rackmount overdrive/distortion
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i have to admit, i don't care for the distortions/overdrives in my eventide
and i'm looking for a rackmount unit to accomplish this (read: analog).
something like a fulltone fulldrive, only in a rack unit.

...and no, buying a different preamp is not an option.  i love my alembic!
sounds just like my long-gone '64 bf fender showman.

any suggestions?

-jim


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 20 08:21:49 2002
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To: <loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Any Wash. DC or NOVA area Loopers in the house?
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 08:19:50 -0400
Organization: Loudcloud, Inc.
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Hey Guys,

Moved from the Bay area of CA a few months ago, to the Northern VA/DC
area.

I'd like to hook up with some loopers in the area for practice or
trading EDP theory or even just a jam session.

I'm using 2 turntables, mixer, and the glorious edp for creating beats,
scratches, effects, and general scientific experiments.

I've played with a couple of bands in the bay, and it worked out well,
using the turntables as an instrument, while the edp lays down the
groove or provides a "sound carpet" or take the bands existing grooves
and chop them up and rearrange them in the 'plex, while they play back
over the tracks.

I'd love to get together with a band or a solo instrumentalist, as I can
provide beats, scratches, samples and weirdness.


Please reply to me if anyone is interested in getting together for the
aformentioned activities.


Be well,

D

Thanks and best regards,

Dylan DeAnda
dylan@loudcloud.com
703-653-6883
"What is it men cannot be made to believe!"
-Thomas Jefferson





From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 20 09:19:01 2002
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Hi folks. Sorry if my topic has been widely discussed already, but 
I'm "new".
I have a JamMan and an Echoplex. Is there any way to have them 
start/stop recording together with one single footpedal/MIDI message 
ecc.???
Thanks
Filippo

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 20 10:09:00 2002
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: Nemoguitt@aol.com 
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com 
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2002 8:46 PM
Subject: Re: more Boomerang questions
>> The Boomerang manual states that this LED is on when SLOW speed 
>> is selected or when STACKing.  What if you're doing both?
>>
> you have a red and a green LED.....red will be lit when you are in a 
> slower speed and green will lite when you are in "stack" mode.....
> ymmv.....michael


Eureka!  There are *two* LEDs!  Somehow I missed this.

Thanks, Michael!  Your answers are very much appreciated!

Dennis Leas
-------------------
dennis@mdbs.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 20 13:12:03 2002
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I love my Alesis Quadraverb GT so much, I have three!  You can also
completely bypass the Quadraverb section if you like (just take the
loop out).

> i have to admit, i don't care for the distortions/overdrives in my...
> ...i'm looking for a rackmount unit to accomplish this (read:
> analog).
> any suggestions?
-- 
I remain,
:-Peter aka :-Dusty :-Chalk

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 20 13:31:12 2002
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> ...and no, buying a different preamp is not an option.  i love my alembic!
> sounds just like my long-gone '64 bf fender showman.
I forgot to thank you regarding the alembic suggestion.
i finally find one and have it here, it is the best sounding gtr/bass tube
preamp i've ever used !

thanks,
luca

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 20 13:51:00 2002
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Subject: Alembics; Was Re: rackmount overdrive/distortion
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Hey, Luca/Jim...let's hear more about this Alembic preamp. Which one do you
have and is it useful as a direct recording tool? Compensated outs for
speaker simulation?
Thanks!
David



                                                                                                                
                    "luca"                                                                                      
                    <lucafeed@tin.       To:     <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>                          
                    it>                  cc:                                                                    
                                         Subject:     Re: rackmount overdrive/distortion                        
                    06/20/2002                                                                                  
                    12:16 PM                                                                                    
                    Please respond                                                                              
                    to                                                                                          
                    Loopers-Deligh                                                                              
                    t                                                                                           
                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                




> ...and no, buying a different preamp is not an option.  i love my
alembic!
> sounds just like my long-gone '64 bf fender showman.
I forgot to thank you regarding the alembic suggestion.
i finally find one and have it here, it is the best sounding gtr/bass tube
preamp i've ever used !

thanks,
luca





From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 20 14:13:26 2002
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SansAmp PSA-1 is analog. ProCo had the R2Du, which was 2 Rats rackmounted. 
According to their website they are going to do an upgrade of it soon....
cheers
Lou


>From: Peter Prisekin aka Dusty Chalk <dusty@patriot.net>
>Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>Subject: Re: rackmount overdrive/distortion
>Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 13:05:15 -0400
>
>I love my Alesis Quadraverb GT so much, I have three!  You can also
>completely bypass the Quadraverb section if you like (just take the
>loop out).
>
> > i have to admit, i don't care for the distortions/overdrives in my...
> > ...i'm looking for a rackmount unit to accomplish this (read:
> > analog).
> > any suggestions?
>--
>I remain,
>:-Peter aka :-Dusty :-Chalk


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

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	 <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: OT: bass preamp (RE: rackmount overdrive/distortion)
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for what kind of music? country? death-metal?

I am looking for a superlative bass head to drive a 2x15 (haven't built yet
so not sure of load but guessing it's 4 ohm)
under 1500? I loop on my own but when I play with the band it's a heavy rock
thing.

is the alembic all that?

thx

Ben

-----Original Message-----
From: luca [mailto:lucafeed@tin.it]
Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 12:16 PM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: rackmount overdrive/distortion


> ...and no, buying a different preamp is not an option.  i love my alembic!
> sounds just like my long-gone '64 bf fender showman.
I forgot to thank you regarding the alembic suggestion.
i finally find one and have it here, it is the best sounding gtr/bass tube
preamp i've ever used !

thanks,
luca

------_=_NextPart_001_01C21886.E72C9C60
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5.5.2653.12">
<TITLE>OT: bass preamp (RE: rackmount overdrive/distortion)</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>for what kind of music? country? death-metal?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I am looking for a superlative bass head to drive a =
2x15 (haven't built yet so not sure of load but guessing it's 4 =
ohm)</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>under 1500? I loop on my own but when I play with the =
band it's a heavy rock thing.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>is the alembic all that?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>thx</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Ben</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: luca [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:lucafeed@tin.it">mailto:lucafeed@tin.it</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 12:16 PM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: Re: rackmount overdrive/distortion</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; ...and no, buying a different preamp is not an =
option.&nbsp; i love my alembic!</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; sounds just like my long-gone '64 bf fender =
showman.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>I forgot to thank you regarding the alembic =
suggestion.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>i finally find one and have it here, it is the best =
sounding gtr/bass tube</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>preamp i've ever used !</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>thanks,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>luca</FONT>
</P>

</BODY>
</HTML>
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 20 14:48:24 2002
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Subject: Re: rackmount overdrive/distortion
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 13:45:02 +0100
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glad you like it.  now you can see why i don't want to get rid of mine!

> I forgot to thank you regarding the alembic suggestion.  i finally find
one and have it here, it is the best sounding gtr/bass tube preamp i've ever
used !



From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 20 14:52:19 2002
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Subject: Re: Alembics; Was Re: rackmount overdrive/distortion
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 19:41:52 +0200
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David Coffin wrote:
> Hey, Luca/Jim...let's hear more about this Alembic preamp. Which one do
you
> have and is it useful as a direct recording tool? Compensated outs for
> speaker simulation?
> Thanks!
> David

hi David !
it's veeery simple,
volume, treble, mids and bass plus a bright switch ( all multiplied per two
channels)
it's very simple inside, my friend technician who has tested it
electronically, said the trick is in the circuitry plus the small orange
things (i don't remember what is their name) which are seriously vintage.
i am also going directly into the board, but i don't miss any speaker
emulation; the tone control is so effective it seems there is no need.
the tone is clean, rich (wonderful, transparent bass) you can overdrive the
top end.
it is my perfect preamp, very sensible with a real wide tone control.
the one i found is a late '70 one, payed 400 $ on ebay.
i know what you are doing, i think this preamp is worth a try.

stay well,
my best,
luca


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Subject: Re: rackmount overdrive/distortion
From: Stan Card <stanitarium@earthlink.net>
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> ...and no, buying a different preamp is not an option.  i love my alembic!
> sounds just like my long-gone '64 bf fender showman.
> 
> any suggestions?
> 
> -jim


wow a <fender showman> fan-they/it are/is the finest sounding guitar amps
*ever*made imo.
what i do to extract that sound from that amp is to hook up a <thd
hotplate>which is a load box, which turns the output to a line signal and
off ya go w/ that heftee sonic signal intact...
s

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 20 14:55:14 2002
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Subject: Re: Alembics; Was Re: rackmount overdrive/distortion
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 13:52:09 +0100
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i have the F2-B preamp, probably built around the late 70's or early 80's
though i haven't checked the serial number to confirm this.  i know it's
older because alembic has since altered the cosmetics.

never tried direct recording with it.

no speaker simulation.  it's a pretty basic preamp.  two sides...basically,
it's the preamp section from the fender showman (thus the name F = fender 2
= stereo B = either bass or blackface).  two inputs per side (one padded)
three outs (mono, left and right).  4 knobs and a switch per side (volume,
bass, mid, treble, bright switch).

it's exactly what i was looking for in the way of preamps.  no frills, just
good solid tube sound.  one note: the signal out of the unit is VERY hot.
this is no problem going right into a poweramp but if you're going into
digital gear, you might have issues.  i had to build a resistor/divider in
order to tame the signal as it was peaking out in my switchblade.

-jim

> Hey, Luca/Jim...let's hear more about this Alembic preamp. Which one do
you have and is it useful as a direct recording tool? Compensated outs for
speaker simulation?



From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 20 15:00:30 2002
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Subject: Re: bass preamp (RE: rackmount overdrive/distortion)
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 13:56:46 +0100
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OT: bass preamp (RE: rackmount overdrive/distortion)for what kind of =
music? country? death-metal?=20

  >just good old fashioned moderate overdrive.  no metal.  i like the =
sound of the fulltone fulldrive units. =20

  I am looking for a superlative bass head to drive a 2x15 (haven't =
built yet so not sure of load but guessing it's 4 ohm)

  >this will depend on your poweramp.  i don't think alembic builds a =
head...just preamps.

  under 1500? I loop on my own but when I play with the band it's a =
heavy rock thing.=20

  is the alembic all that?=20

  >is the alembic all what?  under 1500?  yes.  capable of heavy rock?  =
uh, i guess.

  thx=20

  Ben=20

  -----Original Message-----=20
  From: luca [mailto:lucafeed@tin.it]=20
  Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 12:16 PM=20
  To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  Subject: Re: rackmount overdrive/distortion=20



  > ...and no, buying a different preamp is not an option.  i love my =
alembic!=20
  > sounds just like my long-gone '64 bf fender showman.=20
  I forgot to thank you regarding the alembic suggestion.=20
  i finally find one and have it here, it is the best sounding gtr/bass =
tube=20
  preamp i've ever used !=20

  thanks,=20
  luca=20


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>OT: bass preamp (RE: rackmount =
overdrive/distortion)</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <P><FONT size=3D2>for what kind of music? country? death-metal?</FONT> =
</P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>&gt;just good old fashioned moderate =
overdrive.&nbsp; no=20
  metal.&nbsp; i like the sound of the fulltone fulldrive units.&nbsp;=20
  </FONT></P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>I am looking for a superlative bass head to drive a =
2x15=20
  (haven't built yet so not sure of load but guessing it's 4 =
ohm)</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>&gt;this will depend on your poweramp.&nbsp; i don't =
think=20
  alembic builds a head...just preamps.</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>under 1500? I loop on my own but when I play with =
the band=20
  it's a heavy rock thing.</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>is the alembic all that?</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>&gt;is the alembic all what?&nbsp; under 1500?&nbsp; =

  yes.&nbsp; capable of heavy rock?&nbsp; uh, i guess.</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>thx</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>Ben</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2>From: luca=20
  [<A href=3D"mailto:lucafeed@tin.it">mailto:lucafeed@tin.it</A>]</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
  size=3D2>Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 12:16 PM</FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2>To:=20
  Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>Subject: =
Re:=20
  rackmount overdrive/distortion</FONT> </P><BR>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>&gt; ...and no, buying a different preamp is not an=20
  option.&nbsp; i love my alembic!</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; sounds =
just like=20
  my long-gone '64 bf fender showman.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>I forgot =
to thank=20
  you regarding the alembic suggestion.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>i =
finally find=20
  one and have it here, it is the best sounding gtr/bass tube</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
  size=3D2>preamp i've ever used !</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>thanks,</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>luca</FONT>=20
</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 20 15:03:16 2002
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Subject: Re: bass preamp (RE: rackmount overdrive/distortion)
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 19:52:04 +0200
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OT: bass preamp (RE: rackmount overdrive/distortion)it a great clean =
sounding preamp.
not the cup of tea you are looking for, i suppose.
try an ampeg svp bsp (billy sheenan model) it has a double circuitry =
with an overdrive.
luca
------------------------------
www.unguitar.com
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Reid, Benjamin=20
  To: 'Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com'=20
  Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 8:18 PM
  Subject: OT: bass preamp (RE: rackmount overdrive/distortion)


  for what kind of music? country? death-metal?=20

  I am looking for a superlative bass head to drive a 2x15 (haven't =
built yet so not sure of load but guessing it's 4 ohm)

  under 1500? I loop on my own but when I play with the band it's a =
heavy rock thing.=20

  is the alembic all that?=20

  thx=20

  Ben=20

  -----Original Message-----=20
  From: luca [mailto:lucafeed@tin.it]=20
  Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 12:16 PM=20
  To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  Subject: Re: rackmount overdrive/distortion=20



  > ...and no, buying a different preamp is not an option.  i love my =
alembic!=20
  > sounds just like my long-gone '64 bf fender showman.=20
  I forgot to thank you regarding the alembic suggestion.=20
  i finally find one and have it here, it is the best sounding gtr/bass =
tube=20
  preamp i've ever used !=20

  thanks,=20
  luca=20


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>OT: bass preamp (RE: rackmount =
overdrive/distortion)</TITLE>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3103.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>it a great clean sounding =
preamp.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>not the cup of tea you are looking for, =
i=20
suppose.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>try an ampeg svp bsp (billy sheenan =
model) it has a=20
double circuitry with an overdrive.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>luca</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>------------------------------<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.unguitar.com">www.unguitar.com</A></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:BReid@about-inc.com" =
title=3DBReid@about-inc.com>Reid,=20
  Benjamin</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:'Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com'"=20
  =
title=3DLoopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>'Loopers-Delight@loopers-deli=
ght.com'</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, June 20, 2002 =
8:18=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> OT: bass preamp (RE: =
rackmount=20
  overdrive/distortion)</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>for what kind of music? country? death-metal?</FONT> =
</P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>I am looking for a superlative bass head to drive a =
2x15=20
  (haven't built yet so not sure of load but guessing it's 4 =
ohm)</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>under 1500? I loop on my own but when I play with =
the band=20
  it's a heavy rock thing.</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>is the alembic all that?</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>thx</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>Ben</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2>From: luca=20
  [<A href=3D"mailto:lucafeed@tin.it">mailto:lucafeed@tin.it</A>]</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
  size=3D2>Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 12:16 PM</FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2>To:=20
  Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>Subject: =
Re:=20
  rackmount overdrive/distortion</FONT> </P><BR>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>&gt; ...and no, buying a different preamp is not an=20
  option.&nbsp; i love my alembic!</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; sounds =
just like=20
  my long-gone '64 bf fender showman.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>I forgot =
to thank=20
  you regarding the alembic suggestion.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>i =
finally find=20
  one and have it here, it is the best sounding gtr/bass tube</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
  size=3D2>preamp i've ever used !</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>thanks,</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>luca</FONT>=20
</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
References: <B9377249.43A2%stanitarium@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: rackmount overdrive/distortion
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 14:22:41 +0100
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great amps, i agree.  leo really knew what he was doing.

> wow a <fender showman> fan-they/it are/is the finest sounding guitar amps
*ever*made imo.



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From: Pedro Felix <pfelix28@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: nyc gig
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mr. monk -

cool, hope to catch your set!
i'll dress casual and may not have hair.
best regards, Pedro Felix - NYC 2002

--- mr monk <monk@fuse.net> wrote:
> hey,
> 
> i'm going to be in new york for business (working
> with tony levin) and a 
> radio station in nyc hooked me up with a brief solo
> set at the bitter 
> end on friday night. the set is very brief (30
> minutes or so) so if you 
> are interested, don't be late!  thanks.
> 
> upcoming monk shows:
> 
> friday, june 21
> The Bitter End
> 147 Bleecker Street
> (between Thompson and LaGuardia)
> New York City, NY 10012
> Voice: (212) 673-7030
> 
> i'd love to meet any of you who can attend
> 
> info@bitterend.com
> www.bitterend.com
> 
> monk@fuse.net
> 
> http://www.monkmusic.com
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 20 16:19:34 2002
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Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 16:22:37 -0400
From: David Beardsley <db@biink.com>
Subject: Re: rackmount overdrive/distortion
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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---- Original Message -----
From: "Stan Card" <stanitarium@earthlink.net>

> wow a <fender showman> fan-they/it are/is the finest sounding guitar amps
> *ever*made imo.
> what i do to extract that sound from that amp is to hook up a <thd
> hotplate>which is a load box, which turns the output to a line signal and
> off ya go w/ that heftee sonic signal intact...

If you're going to go down the Hotplate route, check out the Univalve
amp/preamp. http://thdelectronics.com/

Swap the tubes around for different tones - try a 6v6 or a 6l6 from
some Fender vibes or maybe el34, 6550, kt66 or kt88 for some "British"
tones.

This an amazingly flexable amp/preamp. Hot Plate alows you to crank the
amp to push the power tues while keeping the volume down.
Line out to the board for recording or to a power amp. Automatic
speaker load when it's not connected for quiet recording.

I love it - I've used it for all my East Coast shows this year and
recording.

Great disscussion group: http://univalve.org

note: I am not afilliated with THD Electronics in anyway, just a very happy
customer!

* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 20 17:02:46 2002
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Subject: midi cables online purchase
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 15:58:57 +0100
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where does everybody buy their midi cables?  i'm looking for an online
store, of course.

thanks.

-jim


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 20 17:45:53 2002
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Subject: Univalve was Re: rackmount overdrive/distortion
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Thanks for that Univalve link, David...the archived discussion rapidly
clarified that the Univalve isn't for me.
(btw, the link is univalve.net, not .org)


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 20 18:25:49 2002
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Subject: Re: Univalve was Re: rackmount overdrive/distortion
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: <dcoffin@taunton.com>

> 
> Thanks for that Univalve link, David...the archived discussion rapidly
> clarified that the Univalve isn't for me.

OK. I realise that it's not for everybody.

> (btw, the link is univalve.net, not .org)


Uggh! Sorry!


dB
* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley



From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 20 18:28:56 2002
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Installed and played with Loop IV last night. What a treat. I was slicing
and dicing with that new Quantize=8th and using Replace=SUS and after doing
Unrounded Multiply getting into those crazy Loop Windows (wow), and not
quite understanding exactly what was going on with Loop Windows (this will
take time to wrap my head around), only having skimmed the manual, but
thrilled with the results for a 1st run.

There's no substitution for time, studying the manual and experimenting.
However, any more explication on the Loop Windowing feature would be most
welcome... It seems like that feature in itself epitomizes the use of a few
new LoopIV features/parameters; the understanding of which would be most
beneficial!

Its a monster upgrade, with lots of grey matter invested in those 2 eproms!
Looking forward to deeper understanding and getting some new banks
programmed on the PMC10 to address the new midi controllers.




    _/      _/  _/_/_/  _/  _/
   _/_/    _/  _/      _/  _/
  _/  _/  _/  _/_/    _/  _/
 _/    _/_/  _/      _/  _/
_/      _/  _/_/_/  _/  _/_/_/



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SweetWater is having an interconnect sale until tomorrow- you have to
call tho- 800-222-4700

C


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jimmy Fowler [mailto:jimfowler@prodigy.net]
> Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 7:59 AM
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Subject: midi cables online purchase
> 
> where does everybody buy their midi cables?  i'm looking for an online
> store, of course.
> 
> thanks.
> 
> -jim
> 
> 


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 20 20:33:43 2002
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Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 20:35:48 -0400
From: Greg Waltzer <gwaltzer@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: midi cables online purchase
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 http://www.lentine.com/ca/cabhos.stm

Jimmy Fowler wrote:

> where does everybody buy their midi cables?  i'm looking for an online
> store, of course.
>
> thanks.
>
> -jim

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 20 21:58:59 2002
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From: Keith Kotay <kotay@stilton.cs.dartmouth.edu>
Message-Id: <200206210157.BAA28967@stilton.cs.dartmouth.edu>
Subject: Mail Order Source for DL4?
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 21:57:38 -0400 (EDT)
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Hi,

Instead of looping away at this point with my DL4, I am
stuck sending two non-factory-sealed DL4's back to zZounds.
Maybe I'm just asking too much, but I paid the full price
for a DL4 and zZounds can't seem to send me one that is
factory sealed.  And the worst part is that after the first
one arrived and wasn't factory sealed they assured me that
it was a mistake and that they would send me a factory sealed
unit--wrong, it arrived today and it wasn't factory sealed!
I suppose there *may* be nothing wrong with these units, but
someone must have used them and I'd like to get a brand new
unit...

Needless to say, zZounds won't get any more of my business--
and I don't like Musician's Friend that much either--so I am 
looking for a reputable online dealer.  I've heard that 
Sweetwater is good, but I've never dealt with them.  Do they 
actually send unopened units?  

A few posts back some people said that Alto Music is a good 
dealer, but I checked and they don't have any DL4's.  Any
other good online dealers out there?

Thanks,

Keith

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Subject: Re: Mail Order Source for DL4?
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 http://www.sixtecycle.com/sixte/

Keith Kotay wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Instead of looping away at this point with my DL4, I am
> stuck sending two non-factory-sealed DL4's back to zZounds.
> Maybe I'm just asking too much, but I paid the full price
> for a DL4 and zZounds can't seem to send me one that is
> factory sealed.  And the worst part is that after the first
> one arrived and wasn't factory sealed they assured me that
> it was a mistake and that they would send me a factory sealed
> unit--wrong, it arrived today and it wasn't factory sealed!
> I suppose there *may* be nothing wrong with these units, but
> someone must have used them and I'd like to get a brand new
> unit...
>
> Needless to say, zZounds won't get any more of my business--
> and I don't like Musician's Friend that much either--so I am
> looking for a reputable online dealer.  I've heard that
> Sweetwater is good, but I've never dealt with them.  Do they
> actually send unopened units?
>
> A few posts back some people said that Alto Music is a good
> dealer, but I checked and they don't have any DL4's.  Any
> other good online dealers out there?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Keith

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Hello list,

Two very loop-centric new additions to my web site, which have been a
very long time in coming, are finally up and running.

The first one: The Echoplex Analysis Pages

http://www.altruistmusic.com/EDP/index.html

This is an in-depth discussion of many different technical and
conceptual considerations I've explored with the EDP over the last five
years.  There are specific function and parameter descriptions,
conceptual ideas, and even a second-by-second, function-by-function
transcription of one EDP solo.  

Hopefully these pages will help give a tangible sense of some of what
makes the EDP special amongst loopers, and potentially draw newcomers
(loopers and non-loopers alike) into getting a feel for the Echoplex's architecture.

The second addition: Custom Discs

http://www.altruistmusic.com/cdr/index.html

This is just what the name implies: A way for web visitors to personally
select and compile CD-Rs of my non-album material.  All of the tracks
I've posted to the list over the last few months are available, as are a
number of other selections, including my very ambient work from several
years ago, and some remix-oriented studio productions which make heavy
use of the EDP for their sound design.

Any suggestions for improvements or clarifications to either of these
additions are very welcome, as they have just this minute gone live and
I'm still fine-tuning the stuff.

Best wishes,

--Andre LaFosse
http://www.altruistmusic.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 21 00:54:36 2002
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Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 21:53:12 -0700
From: Greg Kucharo <telecaster@mac.com>
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  This is really great work Andre. Excellent.
  
  
on 6/20/02 Andre LaFosse wrote:

>Hello list,
>
>Two very loop-centric new additions to my web site, which have been a
>very long time in coming, are finally up and running.
>
>The first one: The Echoplex Analysis Pages
>
>http://www.altruistmusic.com/EDP/index.html
>
>This is an in-depth discussion of many different technical and
>conceptual considerations I've explored with the EDP over the last five
>years.  There are specific function and parameter descriptions,
>conceptual ideas, and even a second-by-second, function-by-function
>transcription of one EDP solo.  
>
>Hopefully these pages will help give a tangible sense of some of what
>makes the EDP special amongst loopers, and potentially draw newcomers
>(loopers and non-loopers alike) into getting a feel for the Echoplex's 
>architecture.
>
>The second addition: Custom Discs
>
>http://www.altruistmusic.com/cdr/index.html
>
>This is just what the name implies: A way for web visitors to
personally
>select and compile CD-Rs of my non-album material.  All of the tracks
>I've posted to the list over the last few months are available, as are
a
>number of other selections, including my very ambient work from several
>years ago, and some remix-oriented studio productions which make heavy
>use of the EDP for their sound design.
>
>Any suggestions for improvements or clarifications to either of these
>additions are very welcome, as they have just this minute gone live and
>I'm still fine-tuning the stuff.
>
>Best wishes,
>
>--Andre LaFosse
>http://www.altruistmusic.com
>
------------------------------------------
Greg Kucharo-                                 
mutantaudio.com


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 21 01:27:44 2002
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From: "Joe Dallarda" <jdallar@hotmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Repeater & FCB1010 Woes
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I'm hoping someone can help me with controlling repeater with the behringer 
fcb1010 before i totally lose it.

One of the main confusions is this- without me programming anything on 
preset #2, the pedals on preset 2 can scroll through track select 1-4, 
engage play, record, overdub, stop, mute track 1, mute track 2, and mute 
input, which is a hell of a lot better set-up than i've managed to program 
myself as of yet.
But this is (part of)what i'm not getting- I thought the fcb1010 can only 
send 2 CC messages per preset, and that repeater only responds to cc 
messages, and not program change messages. If so, how can this many 
different functions be accessed? Is this not correct? Does controller 
message also mean program change message, of which the fcb1010 can send 5?
Also, I just don't understand how the global edit mode affects the preset 
edit mode- do you have to specify what kind of midi function you want to 
assign to each pedal in the global edit mode separetly for each pedal? The 
damn manual is even worse than a roland manual, minus the strange syntax.
One last question- is there a painless and not too time consuming way to 
suggest how i might go about programming the fcb1010 to access as much of 
the repeaters front panel as possible, send a program change and continuess 
controller messages to an aleises midiverb (for changing vocal presets and 
controlling the amount of delay for vocals in real-time) and a program 
change and gain boost message (for loud sections of any particular song), to 
a pod, while having the repeater and a filter factory and mo-fx midi-synced 
to a roland 880 hard disk recorder without the mo-fx and filter factory 
recieving any kind of midi messages aside from being midi synced? (take 
breath).
I know this is asking a lot, thanks,
j.




_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 21 01:33:59 2002
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Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 01:29:04 -0400
From: skincage <skincage@infin8ty.com>
Subject: vortex caught between morphs?
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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has anyone got an audio example of the vortex between two different effects? i'm trying to
figure out if i should go ahead and a pedal or not. i'd appreciate it!.

also any opinions on stereo volume pedals would be cool, i'm thinking of getting one to put
in the path before vortex or repeater to add some dynamics to my overdubby loops.

thanks!

jon

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 21 02:31:58 2002
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Excellent. Thanks Andre!



    _/      _/  _/_/_/  _/  _/
   _/_/    _/  _/      _/  _/
  _/  _/  _/  _/_/    _/  _/
 _/    _/_/  _/      _/  _/
_/      _/  _/_/_/  _/  _/_/_/


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andre LaFosse [mailto:altruist@earthlink.net]
> Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 9:44 PM
> To: loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com
> Subject: Echoplex Analysis Pages and Custom Disc Ordering Are Now Online
> 
> 
> Hello list,
> 
> Two very loop-centric new additions to my web site, which have been a
> very long time in coming, are finally up and running.
> 
> The first one: The Echoplex Analysis Pages
> 
> http://www.altruistmusic.com/EDP/index.html
> 
> This is an in-depth discussion of many different technical and
> conceptual considerations I've explored with the EDP over the last five
> years.  There are specific function and parameter descriptions,
> conceptual ideas, and even a second-by-second, function-by-function
> transcription of one EDP solo.  
> 
> Hopefully these pages will help give a tangible sense of some of what
> makes the EDP special amongst loopers, and potentially draw newcomers
> (loopers and non-loopers alike) into getting a feel for the 
> Echoplex's architecture.
> 
> The second addition: Custom Discs
> 
> http://www.altruistmusic.com/cdr/index.html
> 
> This is just what the name implies: A way for web visitors to personally
> select and compile CD-Rs of my non-album material.  All of the tracks
> I've posted to the list over the last few months are available, as are a
> number of other selections, including my very ambient work from several
> years ago, and some remix-oriented studio productions which make heavy
> use of the EDP for their sound design.
> 
> Any suggestions for improvements or clarifications to either of these
> additions are very welcome, as they have just this minute gone live and
> I'm still fine-tuning the stuff.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> --Andre LaFosse
> http://www.altruistmusic.com
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 21 03:22:43 2002
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Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 16:21:42 +0900
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: Sunao Inami <cave@osk.3web.ne.jp>
Subject: OT: [web cast spam] Live from Far East Vol.3
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Hello,

This is information of our series Internet broadcast live gig,
it called "Live from Far East"

3rd gig is 29th June 2002.
You can see our gig via Real Player.
Please visit below:
http://www.cavestudio.org/cue/live_from_far_east
or
http://www.cavestudio.org/cue/live_from_far_east/broadcast

This event called "DENGENKYO GAIDEN", it is special version of the last 
event "DENGENKYO".
http://low.cavestudio.org/pictures/2001/dec/23th


Live from Far East Vol.3

"DENGENKYO GAIDEN"

29th June 2002

19:30 - 21.30 (Japanese Standard Time)
  = 11:30 - 13:30 (Greenwich Mean Time)
  = 02:30 - 04:30 (Pacific Standard Time)


Machiko Kitagawa (Koto,Shamisen)
Sunao Inami (PPG wave 2.2)
Masato Kawatani (Guitar)
Kazuya Ishigami (Zarur System)
Emi Makino (Dance)
Asako Iwasa (Dance)


http://www.cavestudio.org/cue/live_from_far_east
(Real Player G2 or higher required)
from Kobe,Japan
  $B!!(B
Download Flyer
http://www.cavestudio.org/cue/live_from_far_east/flyer/0629.jpg

___________

More Info:
C.U.E.
http://www.cavestudio.org/cue
cue@cavestudio.org

______________________

Other news:

Our CD shop and Label,C.U.E. records has opened.
http://www.cavestudio.org/cue/shop

______________________


  sorry for spam..


  Sunao Inami
http://www.cavestudio.com


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 21 03:37:42 2002
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Subject: RE: vortex caught between morphs?
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 00:37:47 -0700
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The Vortex is MUCH better with an expression pedal- I'd honestly say
just get one and see for yourself- 
I have a small example in an old tune I have on my site- 

http://www.om-studios.com/Audio/ArtandSound/om-studios/Deep.mp3

At about 44 seconds a guitar comes in and the sliding effect you hear
the chords doing is the Vortex pedal sweeping between patches- 

Cliff

> -----Original Message-----
> From: skincage [mailto:skincage@infin8ty.com]
> Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 10:29 PM
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Subject: vortex caught between morphs?
> 
> has anyone got an audio example of the vortex between two different
> effects? i'm trying to
> figure out if i should go ahead and a pedal or not. i'd appreciate
it!.
> 
> also any opinions on stereo volume pedals would be cool, i'm thinking
of
> getting one to put
> in the path before vortex or repeater to add some dynamics to my
overdubby
> loops.
> 
> thanks!
> 
> jon
> 


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 21 03:56:41 2002
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Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 03:55:18 EDT
Subject: Loop4 features vol.3
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The New InterfaceModes.

Some of these are a bit complex/bizarre,
stay in LoopMode till you know your way around.

Loop3 had LOP, Del and Out
available for the  Loop/Delay parameter

Loop4 adds In, EHP, rPL , FLI  & Stu

of these In, rPL and FLI are only available if you attach a
pedal to the EDP

Unless otherwise noted, these are based on LOP (loop mode)
from LOOP3 

In
Input mode
pedal controls Input vol to the loop all the time, 
If you have 2 midi control pedals you can now
have pedal control of Input Vol, Feedback and Output Vol
for the loop. 

EHP, 
Expert Mode
without pedal feedback is 100% while loop is playing.
During Overdub + Mult feedback is from the front panel knob.

when a pedal is used it controls feedback during play,
(But if playing back as triggered samples, the pedal 
controls the output volume, a feature that no-one on the team
will admit to inventing).

Expert Mode is meant to emulate a Boomerang to
some extent.


Stu
StutterMode
Changes the way Insert works, so it becomes
a "SingleCycleMultiply".
Works best with a Loop which is made up of a number
of short cycles (use Multiply).
Hit Insert and the next cycle in the loop starts to repeat.
Then you can either hit Undo, and go back to the original loop
(which will still be in time as if nothing had happenned)
OR hit Insert again to insert the "Stutters" into the loop.

If you have a single cycle loop running, you can enjoy 
this Mode by using Insert followed by Record to copy small
chunks of the loop. 
Or use Insertmode =SUS (a trick discovered by Andre LaFosse)
A bit like time stretching the loop.



rPL
ReplaceMode
The pedal controls Feedback and Output volume
simultaneously.
As if the feedback was taken from after the Output volume
fader rather than before.
This allows you to hear straight away how the feedback 
changes you make affect the loop, so good for 'mixing'
the loop as you overdub, and also nice for "sculpting"
the loop 
(pedal tremolos etc.)
In order to hear a sinfgle repeat in this mode, you 
have to use Substitute.  


FLI
Flip Mode

Pedal controls Input volume, and feedback simultaneously.
But control of feedback is reversed, so you crossfade between the 
loop and new material.
Good for pulsing organic loops.
Has to be heard.
 <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/andybmp3//vrtdemo.mp3">demo</A>  

during Overdub, feedback comes from the front panel
knob, and pedal still controls input.
...so you get a normal delay type looper to play with as well.

Insert works as for Stutter Mode. 


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 21 03:57:31 2002
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Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 03:55:06 EDT
Subject: Re: LoopIV
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> However, any more explication on the Loop Windowing feature would be most
>  welcome... It seems like that feature in itself epitomizes the use of a few
>  new LoopIV features/parameters; the understanding of which would be most
>  beneficial!

Windowing is allowing the Undo function to work even when it 
shouldn't. Every time you Overdub new sounds the EDP records 
onto a new section of memory, so when you Undo normally you're
just going back in memory by one cycle.
When you change the cycle length it wouldn't really
make sense to still have this function, as you'll be jumping back
into odd cut up sections of your earlier loops.
However this is exactly what you CAN do with loop4.

With loop3 you can Multiply a loop, then use Mult again to 
reduce the size of the loop. Then you get a bug with Undo,
which gives you exactly the Loop Windowing thing.
This was so popular that Matthias improved it for
Loop4, and Kim put it in the manual as a feature.

favourite-trick-of -the -moment
loopswithinloops

Quant=8th, InsertMode=Sub (or rPL)
8th/cycle=8th.

Record a loop of about 1s.
Then play sustained notes and use 
InsertButton to "drop in"  8th note fragments.
After a while do a Multiply to about 16 cycles.
Then when you Undo (longpress is better) you
can hear the original short loop gradually evolving 
during the new long loop.

andy butler

  

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SoundFNR@aol.com wrote:

> favourite-trick-of -the -moment
> loopswithinloops
> 
> Quant=8th, InsertMode=Sub (or rPL)
> 8th/cycle=8th.
> 
> Record a loop of about 1s.
> Then play sustained notes and use
> InsertButton to "drop in"  8th note fragments.
> After a while do a Multiply to about 16 cycles.
> Then when you Undo (longpress is better) you
> can hear the original short loop gradually evolving
> during the new long loop.

Brilliant as usual Mr. Butler!

Definitely one for the school of IMI-IBI...

--Andre LaFosse
http://www.altruistmusic.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 21 04:08:41 2002
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SoundFNR@aol.com wrote:

> Stu
> StutterMode
> If you have a single cycle loop running, you can enjoy
> this Mode by using Insert followed by Record to copy small
> chunks of the loop.
> Or use Insertmode =SUS (a trick discovered by Andre LaFosse)
> A bit like time stretching the loop.

What do you think of the term "SubCycle Multiply" for this one?

--Andre

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 21 05:11:38 2002
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Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:10:23 +0200
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> -----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
> Från: Joe Dallarda [mailto:jdallar@hotmail.com]

> I'm hoping someone can help me with controlling repeater with the
> behringer
> fcb1010 before i totally lose it.

Here's a good post on the vcb1010 by Matthew Gallagher:
http://www.loopers-delight.com/LDarchive/200206/msg00766.html


> But this is (part of)what i'm not getting- I thought the fcb1010 can only
> send 2 CC messages per preset, and that repeater only responds to cc
> messages, and not program change messages.

Repeater also responds to program change messages. Check the Repeater
manual. But please keep in mind that some prg ch numbers are not accurate in
the manual, so you have to try around a bit to get the response right.


> One last question- is there a painless and not too time consuming way to
> suggest how i might go about programming the fcb1010 to access as much of
> the repeaters front panel as possible, send a program change and
> continuess
> controller messages to an aleises midiverb (for changing vocal
> presets and
> controlling the amount of delay for vocals in real-time) and a program
> change and gain boost message (for loud sections of any
> particular song), to
> a pod, while having the repeater and a filter factory and mo-fx
> midi-synced
> to a roland 880 hard disk recorder without the mo-fx and filter factory
> recieving any kind of midi messages aside from being midi synced? (take
> breath).


No ;-)

There's no "painless and not too time consuming way", as the fcb1010 is a
bitch to program. But if you have the time it can be done, by assigning a
specific midi channel to each piece of gear. Then dedicate a fcb1010 pad for
each of these midi channels. Midi channels are global on the fcb1010, so
those dedicated pads will send on the assigned midi channel (addressing the
specific piece of gear) in every patch.

All the best

Per Boysen
www.boysen.se
____________________________________________________________
http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=p_boy



From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 21 10:46:01 2002
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Subject: A Nice Review
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 02 10:39:42 -0400
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Hey gang-

A nice little review just landed in Progressions Magazine:

JON DURANT: Brief Light
2001 (CD: 46:28); Alchemy ALCD 1019
Style: Progressive ambient
Sound: **** Composition: ***-1/2 Musicianship: ***-1/2 Performance: **** 
Total rating: 15

If meteorologists had a command of the weather like Jon Durant has a 
command of atmospherics, there would be a lot less scientific guessing. 
It's only natural then that Durant's musical arsenal revolves around 
"cloud guitars," along with synthetic tuned percussion, piano and gong 
ensemble.

Durant specializes in creating wonderfully evocative, pastoral pieces 
that will appeal to fans of Michael Brook, Robert Fripp and David Torn 
(the latter having also mastered this CD). But Durant also brings to mind 
Patrick O'Hearn (_Rosemary_) and Group 87 (_River_), similar acts who 
have infused very textural streams with their rhythmic imagination.

Helped out primarily by Tony Levin on (bass or stick), Michael Whalen 
(piano), Vinny Sabatino (drums and percussion) and Randy Roos (guitar 
synthesis, on the final track), Durant takes a zen-like approach to his 
music, showing what is NOT played is almost as important as what is.

Where other musicians play musical bars, Durant plays isobars -- 
stretching sustained notes into the stratosphere, letting the music fall 
like rain on hot steaming pavement. It's a joy to behold.

Mark Newman, Progressions Magazine

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 21 10:54:52 2002
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Jon.

Congratulations! Great review.

I've been meaning to check out your music for ages.

Maybe this time I will.

Thanks for sharing,

Ted Killian

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 21 11:03:06 2002
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Also in Progression mag. is a reveiw on my band "Soundstream" also got a
whooping 15 stars. If anyone wants to trade cds let me know. ' The idiot
bastard son of LD" Bill/las vegas

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 21 12:47:01 2002
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Subject: Boomerang V2 Mode AB1 questions
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:45:13 -0500
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So all you 'rangers out there, I have just a few more questions about the
Boomerang.

These are about mode AB1:

1) Does the 'rang switch to Loop A whenever Loop B finishes playback?

For example, say that you've recorded into Loop A and B.  You stop playback
and press ONCE (A/B)  so that 'b' is illuminated.  When you press PLAY, Loop
B starts playback.  At the end of Loop B, does the 'rang automatically
switch to Loop A playback?

For another example, say you do the following:
a) Record into Loop A.  Terminate the recording by pressing ONCE (A/B).

b) Continue recording into Loop B.  Terminate the recording by pressing
RECORD.

c) Loop B start to playback.

At the end of Loop B, does playback automatically switch to Loop A?



2) Say that Loop B is playing back.  You have only three ways to stop Loop B
playback.
a) If you don't press any buttons, at the end of Loop B playback Loop B will
automatically switch to Loop A .

b) You can press PLAY, which will immediately stop Loop B playback and idle
the 'rang.

c) You can press RECORD, which will immediately start recording into Loop B.



My thanks for any and all help.

Dennis Leas
-------------------
dennis@mdbs.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 21 14:43:19 2002
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Huh, I'm not sticking up for zZounds or Musician's Friend, but I've done
a bunch of business with zZounds, and have always found them to be
pretty good, as opposed to Musician's Friend, which is usually
befuddled.  One of the things I like about both companies, is that they
let you purchase something, then if you don't like the way it sounds or
works with your system, you can return it.  NO QUESTIONS ASKED.  Maybe
someone bought your two DL4s and found that they needed something higher
end and purchased an Echoplex or Repeater instead.  My point here is,
how could they do this (at no charge to the trier) and then sell what
would be a unit in perfect condition to someone else, and take a loss?
I honestly think you're kidding yourself about getting a "Factory sealed
box"  If you get a unit that's in 100% working order with a
manufacturer's warrentee, be happy and stop giving your retailer a hard
time.

I purchased a Korg Groove processor from zZounds, and I DID NOT LIKE
IT.  It just wasn't doing what I hoped it would do, and I don't think
there would have been any way I could have discovered that in a store.
I sent it back in 100% condition.  It might be a great unit for someone
else, but not for me.  I did the same with a Lexicon MPX500.  Both items
I'd have no problem selling as "new".  No scratches or wear, but not
"Factory sealed."   You can't expect a nice refund policy and to always
get a factory sealed box.  You can't have it both ways, it's just not
realistic.  Scratch and dents are another story...

Mark Sottilaro


Keith Kotay wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Instead of looping away at this point with my DL4, I am
> stuck sending two non-factory-sealed DL4's back to zZounds.
> Maybe I'm just asking too much, but I paid the full price
> for a DL4 and zZounds can't seem to send me one that is
> factory sealed.  And the worst part is that after the first
> one arrived and wasn't factory sealed they assured me that
> it was a mistake and that they would send me a factory sealed
> unit--wrong, it arrived today and it wasn't factory sealed!
> I suppose there *may* be nothing wrong with these units, but
> someone must have used them and I'd like to get a brand new
> unit...
>
> Needless to say, zZounds won't get any more of my business--
> and I don't like Musician's Friend that much either--so I am
> looking for a reputable online dealer.  I've heard that
> Sweetwater is good, but I've never dealt with them.  Do they
> actually send unopened units?
>
> A few posts back some people said that Alto Music is a good
> dealer, but I checked and they don't have any DL4's.  Any
> other good online dealers out there?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Keith

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Andre, you're amazing.  How do you have the time to do all this?  Are you some wealthy
"Batmanesque" character that's some obsessed Looping evangelist by night?  You're truly
a great resource.

Mark

Andre LaFosse wrote:

> Hello list,
>
> Two very loop-centric new additions to my web site, which have been a
> very long time in coming, are finally up and running.
>
> The first one: The Echoplex Analysis Pages
>
> http://www.altruistmusic.com/EDP/index.html
>
> This is an in-depth discussion of many different technical and
> conceptual considerations I've explored with the EDP over the last five
> years.  There are specific function and parameter descriptions,
> conceptual ideas, and even a second-by-second, function-by-function
> transcription of one EDP solo.
>
> Hopefully these pages will help give a tangible sense of some of what
> makes the EDP special amongst loopers, and potentially draw newcomers
> (loopers and non-loopers alike) into getting a feel for the Echoplex's architecture.
>
> The second addition: Custom Discs
>
> http://www.altruistmusic.com/cdr/index.html
>
> This is just what the name implies: A way for web visitors to personally
> select and compile CD-Rs of my non-album material.  All of the tracks
> I've posted to the list over the last few months are available, as are a
> number of other selections, including my very ambient work from several
> years ago, and some remix-oriented studio productions which make heavy
> use of the EDP for their sound design.
>
> Any suggestions for improvements or clarifications to either of these
> additions are very welcome, as they have just this minute gone live and
> I'm still fine-tuning the stuff.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> --Andre LaFosse
> http://www.altruistmusic.com

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I couldn't get through your email, but I'll try to help.  The Repeater does
indeed respond to CC, PC AND note information, all of which the FCP1010 can
send.  Here's the catch.  There are errors in the Repeater MIDI implementation
chart in the manuals.  I forget what they are though.  When I couldn't figure
out what number PC change was (I think it's one number off) I just went to the
corresponding CC value, and it worked fine.  Don't worry, once you figure it
out, I think you'll see that the 1010 is the controller for the Repeater.  I
found no better for more than twice the price.

Mark Sottilaro

Joe Dallarda wrote:

> I'm hoping someone can help me with controlling repeater with the behringer
> fcb1010 before i totally lose it.
>
> One of the main confusions is this- without me programming anything on
> preset #2, the pedals on preset 2 can scroll through track select 1-4,
> engage play, record, overdub, stop, mute track 1, mute track 2, and mute
> input, which is a hell of a lot better set-up than i've managed to program
> myself as of yet.
> But this is (part of)what i'm not getting- I thought the fcb1010 can only
> send 2 CC messages per preset, and that repeater only responds to cc
> messages, and not program change messages. If so, how can this many
> different functions be accessed? Is this not correct? Does controller
> message also mean program change message, of which the fcb1010 can send 5?
> Also, I just don't understand how the global edit mode affects the preset
> edit mode- do you have to specify what kind of midi function you want to
> assign to each pedal in the global edit mode separetly for each pedal? The
> damn manual is even worse than a roland manual, minus the strange syntax.
> One last question- is there a painless and not too time consuming way to
> suggest how i might go about programming the fcb1010 to access as much of
> the repeaters front panel as possible, send a program change and continuess
> controller messages to an aleises midiverb (for changing vocal presets and
> controlling the amount of delay for vocals in real-time) and a program
> change and gain boost message (for loud sections of any particular song), to
> a pod, while having the repeater and a filter factory and mo-fx midi-synced
> to a roland 880 hard disk recorder without the mo-fx and filter factory
> recieving any kind of midi messages aside from being midi synced? (take
> breath).
> I know this is asking a lot, thanks,
> j.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 21 15:00:49 2002
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The FCB1010 is a bitch to program?  You should try and program a Rolls MIDI
Wizard!  That's the only box that's ever "beaten" me.  I never got it to work.

Complex problems never usually have simple answers.

Mark

Per Boysen wrote:
> One last question- is there a painless and not too time consuming way to

> > suggest how i might go about programming the fcb1010 to access as much of
> > the repeaters front panel as possible, send a program change and
> > continuess
> > controller messages to an aleises midiverb (for changing vocal
> > presets and
> > controlling the amount of delay for vocals in real-time) and a program
> > change and gain boost message (for loud sections of any
> > particular song), to
> > a pod, while having the repeater and a filter factory and mo-fx
> > midi-synced
> > to a roland 880 hard disk recorder without the mo-fx and filter factory
> > recieving any kind of midi messages aside from being midi synced? (take
> > breath).
>
> No ;-)
>
> There's no "painless and not too time consuming way", as the fcb1010 is a
> bitch to program. But if you have the time it can be done, by assigning a
> specific midi channel to each piece of gear. Then dedicate a fcb1010 pad for
> each of these midi channels. Midi channels are global on the fcb1010, so
> those dedicated pads will send on the assigned midi channel (addressing the
> specific piece of gear) in every patch.
>
> All the best
>
> Per Boysen
> www.boysen.se
> ____________________________________________________________
> http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=p_boy

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 21 16:13:18 2002
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From: "Rainer Straschill" <rs@moinlabs.de>
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Subject: RE: percussion, pitch-shifting and fxs (re:pitch-shifting percussion in realtime) 
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 22:12:40 +0200
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Hi David,

I just found out that I couldn't use CCs simply because the MIDI channel
setup of the FCB was wrong...now I'm happily switching chord vamps and bass
licks to different root notes, and this without a single button tap on the
Repeater!

	Rainer

Rainer Straschill
Moinlabs GFX and Soundworks - www.moinlabs.de <http://www.moinlabs.de>
digital penis expert group - www.dpeg.de <http://www.dpeg.de>
The MoinSound Archives - www.mp3.com/moinlabs <http://www.mp3.com/moinlabs>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: david.kuck@web.de [mailto:david.kuck@web.de]
> Sent: Montag, 17. Juni 2002 01:55
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Subject: RE: percussion, pitch-shifting and fxs (re:pitch-shifting
> percussion in realtime)
>
>
> Hi!
> To control the pitch of the repeater you have to program to
> the controller to send midi notes. When you go to program
> mode, where you choose the different controller and program
> messages to send, 10/0 is the button to send midi notes. the
> table for the values is in the behringer manual (german
> manual page 14). Then when you activate the "pitch" mode for
> a channel in the repeater, you can change the pitch by
> sending note-on commands with the behringer (the same way as
> with a midi keyboard).
>
> Success,
> David
>
>
>
>
>
>
> :Apart from that, did you succeed in controlling pitch of the
> repeater with
> :he FCB1010? While I can happily use the expression pedals to
> pitchbend
> :around, somehow assigning controller values to the buttons
> and thus play the
> :shifter bass-pedal-style didn't work. Is there any limitation on the
> :Behringer I should be aware of (or any thing to keep in
> mind), or was I just
> :too stupid?
>
>
>

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In a message dated 6/21/02 12:46:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dennis@mdbs.com 
writes:


> .  At the end of Loop B, does the 'rang automatically
> switch to Loop A playback?
> 
> 

yes AB1 allows loop B to play 1 time only.....in fact dennis, i think that 
AB1 only gives you 1 loop of B in all situations.....i never use AB1, i will 
have to fool around with it and see what i can see.....once again 
ymmv.....michael

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 6/21/02 12:46:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dennis@mdbs.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">.&nbsp; At the end of Loop B, does the 'rang automatically<BR>
switch to Loop A playback?<BR>
<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
yes AB1 allows loop B to play 1 time only.....in fact dennis, i think that AB1 only gives you 1 loop of B in all situations.....i never use AB1, i will have to fool around with it and see what i can see.....once again ymmv.....michael</FONT></HTML>

--part1_40.1f8d8799.2a44e26d_boundary--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 21 16:33:03 2002
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Subject: Re: Mail Order Source for DL4?
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 16:31:09 -0400 (EDT)
In-Reply-To: <3D13733D.9B22F4BD@zerocrossing.net> from "Mark Sottilaro" at Jun 21, 2002 11:40:59 AM
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Hi Mark,

> Huh, I'm not sticking up for zZounds or Musician's Friend, but I've done
> a bunch of business with zZounds, and have always found them to be
> pretty good, as opposed to Musician's Friend, which is usually
> befuddled.  One of the things I like about both companies, is that they
> let you purchase something, then if you don't like the way it sounds or
> works with your system, you can return it.  NO QUESTIONS ASKED.  Maybe
> someone bought your two DL4s and found that they needed something higher
> end and purchased an Echoplex or Repeater instead.  My point here is,
> how could they do this (at no charge to the trier) and then sell what
> would be a unit in perfect condition to someone else, and take a loss?
> I honestly think you're kidding yourself about getting a "Factory sealed
> box"  If you get a unit that's in 100% working order with a
> manufacturer's warrentee, be happy and stop giving your retailer a hard
> time.
> 
I agree that online music stores are in a bind when they have a "no
questions asked" 30-day return policy.  I understand that taking a loss
on every returned unit would probably put them out of business.  And
that they have no choice but to allow returns because all the other
retailers allow them.  However, what I don't like is being told one thing 
(that I *would* get a factory sealed unit the second time) and then 
receiving another opened unit.  Deception is not something I want to
support.  Also, according to the guy I talked to yesterday, "all returned 
items that are opened become B-stock units and should not be shipped out 
as new."  Obviously that is exactly what they are doing, but the guy is 
telling me a different story (more deception).

By the way, I purchased my Zoom PS02 from zZounds and I had no problems,
which is why I took my business back to them.  But after dealing with
them this time I'll never do it again...

> I purchased a Korg Groove processor from zZounds, and I DID NOT LIKE
> IT.  It just wasn't doing what I hoped it would do, and I don't think
> there would have been any way I could have discovered that in a store.
> I sent it back in 100% condition.  It might be a great unit for someone
> else, but not for me.  I did the same with a Lexicon MPX500.  Both items
> I'd have no problem selling as "new".  No scratches or wear, but not
> "Factory sealed."   You can't expect a nice refund policy and to always
> get a factory sealed box.  You can't have it both ways, it's just not
> realistic.  Scratch and dents are another story...
> 
Since I never return things that are not broken, I'm not trying to have
it both ways.  I do a lot of research before I buy things and therefore
I know what I want before I make the purchase.  Not to get too 
philosophical here, but the real problem is that the "try before you
buy" shopping strategy is best suited to your local music store, not
to online merchants.  In your local store everyone can play with the
*one* demo model and, if they like it, they buy the factory sealed unit
in the back room.  Local music stores can afford to take a loss on one
demo unit--but online stores would have to take a loss on thousands of
demo units which they can't afford.  So the real fault is ours--we 
want to save a few bucks therefore we don't go to our local dealer and
we create this poor business model that requires online retailers to
send us non-factory-sealed units.  (Or even worse, we go to our local
dealer to try out the unit and *then* we buy from an online merchant.)

So, I suppose I should take my own advice and buy from a local dealer
if I can find one that carries Line 6 products--it may not be possbile
up here in the wilds of New Hampshire but I'll try...

Well, since I assume you treat your equipment well, I wouldn't have
any problem buying something that *you* tried out and didn't like.  But
I don't know who played with these units.  Was it someone who overloaded
the inputs and caused some damage I can't hear right now but will show
up later (after the warranty expires)?  I know this is stretching
things, but I still feel I have a right to get what I paid for: a *new*
unit.

My real concern is that almost every company that sells effects seems
to have very poor support.  I've heard stories about units taking
months to be repaired, or even being sent back after repair and not
working.  I'm trying to avoid this as much as possible by getting a
unit that's brand new.  Then, if it fails it is either my fault or
Line 6's, not some unknown person who used it for 3 weeks and then
returned it.

Cheers,

Keith

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 21 17:24:47 2002
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Subject: SV: SV: Repeater & FCB1010 Woes
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 23:21:38 +0200
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> Fran: Mark Sottilaro [mailto:sine@zerocrossing.net]

> The FCB1010 is a bitch to program?  You should try and program a 
> Rolls MIDI Wizard! 


He, he ;-)  What's a Rolls MIDI Wizard?

All the best

Per Boysen
www.boysen.se
____________________________________________________________
http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=p_boy

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 21 17:33:56 2002
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Hey there Mark,

> How do you have the time to do all this? 

A few bits here and there, cobbled together over many months - both of
thesebits have been a long time coming.  Sort of like making an album,
or writing a book, or...

> Are you some wealthy
> "Batmanesque" character that's some obsessed Looping evangelist by night?  

Not at all - more like a destitute Clark Kent (without the super
powers!) who's obsessed with trying to increase my visibility and
potential sources of income within my chosen field, which is music.

Self-interest aside, though, it's been extremely frustrating to me for
several years that there isn't more discussion about the specific craft
and techniques used in looping, and that the EDP still seems to be
largely misunderstood or under-represented in terms of what it's about. 
These pages are an attempt at trying to help facilitate a bit of
discourse about the Echoplex, and looping in general.

Thanks for the kind words, sir!

--Andre LaFosse
The Echoplex Analysis Pages:
http://www.altruistmusic.com/EDP

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--- Keith Kotay <kotay@stilton.cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
> Since I never return things that are not broken, I'm not trying to
> have it both ways.  I do a lot of research before I buy things and
> therefore I know what I want before I make the purchase. 

How can you do that 100% of the time? A lot of musical gear is highly
subjective, and you can read reviews for weeks and never know if YOU
will like the sound of a particular unit until you can play with it
yourself. Do you go to the local music store (LMS) and use them as a
demo center, and then make your purchase from an online vendor? I don't
do that myself. I'll only try something in an LMS if I think I might
buy it there. Anything beyond that seems like I'm taking advantage of
them.

> Not to get too 
> philosophical here, but the real problem is that the "try before you
> buy" shopping strategy is best suited to your local music store, not
> to online merchants.

Sure. You focused on the convenience to the vendor, but it's also more
convenient to you. It costs you nothing to wander into Joe's Music to
try out that distortion box that you end up not liking. If you buy it
online and don't like it, you have to 1) pay for it up front, 2) pay
for the shipping, 3) wait a few days to get it, 4) keep it in pristine
condition while you try it to find you don't like it, 5) call up for an
RMA, 6) take it to the shipping vendor, 6) pay return shipping.

> So the real fault is ours--we 
> want to save a few bucks therefore we don't go to our local dealer
> and> we create this poor business model that requires online 
> retailers to send us non-factory-sealed units.  (Or even worse, we 
> go to our local dealer to try out the unit and *then* we buy from an
> online merchant.)

I might disagree. the LMS's have created a lot of this problem
themselves. Many of them charge absolutely usury prices on things,
unless you argue like you're in a Middle Eastern Bazarre, and a lot of
people just don't like doing that. Many of them have the rudest
employees I've ever encountered in a retail establishment. Seriously,
the only retail place I can think of where I feel less comfortable then
most music shops is a used car lot. I find them both distasteful and
avoid most of the time.

Beyond that, the other clientelle is often even more rude then the
employees. How can you demo a piece of studio-quality gear when you
have Eddie Van Kornhead blasting a Marshall stack 10 feet away? How
long does it take to demo something? The last time I went to an LMS, I
was there for half an hour looking around and a young man sat there
playing a high powered halfstack the entire time (he was there before I
came in, and was still there when I left...) WITHOUT CHANGING THE
SETTINGS ON EITHER THE AMP OR THE GUITAR! Literally over an hour with
one tone. It would have been pretty hard to try something out that
day...

Ok, so I try something out in the store, think I like it, but then get
it home and find it has some fatal flaw (like the midi implementation
is so bad that it won't work with my other equipment). Many LMS's I've
encountered had terrible return policies.

I guess it gets better when you've established a relationship with
someone at the store. I had a store where we used to live that
consistantly gave me good deals, and treated me great. I bought a lot
of gear there. Other stores treated me like crap, there were a lot more
of those. The problem is that you generally have to spend both a lot of
time and a lot of money at a shop before they'll recognize you that
way. Unfortunately, I don't get regular money to spend on stuff like
this, and I don't have time to go hang around music stores any more.
What little time I have, I'd much rather be PLAYING some music then
hanging around a shop discussing it.

The price issue is tough. It'd be a lot easier to deal with if the
difference wasn't so big. I've frequently found things through mail
order for (say..) $75 that a LMS absolutely won't budge below $150.
Sorry, but that's double the price. My equipment budget is pretty
limited as it is.
 
> So, I suppose I should take my own advice and buy from a local dealer
> if I can find one that carries Line 6 products--it may not be
> possbile up here in the wilds of New Hampshire but I'll try...

That's the other problem. At least in NH, you have the greater Boston
area within driving distance. Here in Kansas, it's a 3 hour drive to
get to anything beyond a Mom & Pop sized music store. Pro audio? Not in
this state.

> I know this is stretching
> things, but I still feel I have a right to get what I paid for: a
> *new* unit.

I don't have a problem with them sending me something that someone else
tried out (and returned in perfect condition), EXCEPT if they tell me
it hadn't been opened. That's really the only issue I see in your
original gripe. You asked for an unopened box, and they told you that's
what you'd get. That should have been the end of it. If they'd told you
that they couldn't insure the one you got hadn't been opened, then
that'd be a different thing, but that's what they promised you, so
that's what you expect.

> My real concern is that almost every company that sells effects seems
> to have very poor support.  I've heard stories about units taking
> months to be repaired, or even being sent back after repair and not
> working.  I'm trying to avoid this as much as possible by getting a
> unit that's brand new.  Then, if it fails it is either my fault or
> Line 6's, not some unknown person who used it for 3 weeks and then
> returned it.

Service is a commodity we're all suffering problems with, and it's not
just music stores. Local computer stores are just almost as bad. When I
call for customer support at many places, I get the run around. Stores
treat you like dirt. Etc.

That's basically what I'm complaining about with local stores. If they
offered better service, and a fair price (not necessarily a LOWER, or
equal price) it would be a hands down win. But...they offer lousy
service, rude employees, an uninviting atmosphere, very high prices,
poor selection, etc. About the only advantage is that they might have
the thing in stock where you could try it. Even that doesn't always
happen. I went to a music store one time to try out a guitar, and the
sales person offered to PLAY IT FOR ME, "so I could hear it". I told
him that I wouldn't buy anything I couldn't try myself and was told
"you might scratch it". (and it wasn't like they had any reason to
think I wouldn't be careful, I was like 32 years old at the time,
dressed well, etc!) I walked, never went back. What a joke.

It's stuff like that which makes me want to buy mail order. But..even
then, I'd be hesitant to buy something liek a guitar mail order, even
within the same make & model, they feel and sound different. How could
you know what you were getting?

Greg

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 21 18:08:21 2002
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From: "Scott McGregor Moore" <scott@dreamstate.to>
To: "The Ambient Way" <the_ambient_way@yahoogroups.com>,
        "Loopers Delight" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>,
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Subject: The Ambient Ping presents Hypnotech 3 & LiminaL projects
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 18:09:52 -0400
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This week ... some live chillout and experimental music
to recharge your batteries after the OM Festival weekend.

THE AMBiENT PiNG   http://www.theambientping.com
Every Tuesday Night - doors open at 9pm - 1st set at 9:30
@ club nia / C'est What - 19 Church St. at Front St. - Toronto
        3 blocks east of the Union Station subway.
        map - http://www.cestwhat.com/map.html
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

This Tuesday June 25th - Hypnotech 3 and LiminaL projects

Tripping in from Hamilton, John Merrall & Michael Jackson Pawluk
of Hypnotech 3 fuse dark ambience, pulse beats, deepspace
melodies and gossamer drapes of bent noise in an attempt to
investigate the realms where Trance artists fear to tread. Their
music has been compared to Godspeed You Black Emperor!,
Chicane, PPK, early Aphex Twin & (of course) Tangerine Dream.
http://www.mp3.com/hypnotech3 

LiminaL projects is a multi-media installation and performance
collective. Their sound is assembled through an integration of
electronic & organic material. Live voice, three computers,
loopers, sampling units, effect processors and found objects
such as: tree branches, sewing machine motors, trains, static,
radio waves, elevators, live drums, marbles and water are key
components and textures of their sound. Tanya Doody will be
adding the visual elements to sonics by Jackson Two Bears,
Susanna Hood & Tom Kuo. http://www.liminalprojects.org

Between Sets CD - "Zeit" (side 3) by Tangerine Dream (Sequel)
"Origin Of Supernatural Probabilities", Track 3 of the "Zeit" album
features slide guitar, transformed organs and turbulent electronics
from this very early (1972) ambient soundscape release.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

The Ambient Ping presents free live performances by Toronto's
finest ambient, chillout and experimental music artists plus
performers from across the continent, every Tuesday at club nia
(aka C'est What) featuring a comfortable lower stage area, perfect
for attentive listening, plus a higher level with a bar, back room
and more seating that's great for conversation, good food and
the club's impressive beer, wine and whiskey selection.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Coming Tuesday July 2nd - still coiled with redjet media visuals

still coiled (Rob Greenway aka brilliantfish and Jim Field from
Rhea's Obsession) perform 2 sets of "saline, iodine and mercury"
in celebration of their debut self-titled CD, recorded last November
at The Ambient Ping by Crispin Giles. http://www.brilliantfish.com
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Please forward this e-mail to any friends who may be
interested in live ambient and experimental performances.




From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 21 18:16:03 2002
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To: "Loopers Delight" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: OT: CARP passed- this sucks.
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What a major bummer.

http://www.somafm.com/

http://www.om-studios.com

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 21 18:30:28 2002
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Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 15:26:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Greg House <ghunicycle@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: OT: CARP passed- this sucks.
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--- Clifford Novey <om@om-studios.com> wrote:
> What a major bummer.
> 
> http://www.somafm.com/

They got a lower rate then what they'd asked for, but it's still
outrageous. Something like $0.70/play, given 1000 listeners. I believe
broadcast radio is still down in the 1 digit cents. Seems ridiculously
unfair. And not only that, but it's still retroactive to 1998. 

As you say, major bummer.

Greg

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 21 18:35:37 2002
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From: Keith Kotay <kotay@stilton.cs.dartmouth.edu>
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Subject: Re: Mail Order vs local
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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In-Reply-To: <20020621213328.17337.qmail@web21308.mail.yahoo.com> from "Greg House" at Jun 21, 2002 02:33:28 PM
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Hi Greg,

> How can you do that 100% of the time? A lot of musical gear is highly
> subjective, and you can read reviews for weeks and never know if YOU
> will like the sound of a particular unit until you can play with it
> yourself. Do you go to the local music store (LMS) and use them as a
> demo center, and then make your purchase from an online vendor? I don't
> do that myself. I'll only try something in an LMS if I think I might
> buy it there. Anything beyond that seems like I'm taking advantage of
> them.
> 
I can do it because I don't buy that much gear.  I'm not someone who
shops around for effects--I just play as a hobby so I don't have a
lot of interest in achieving a specific sound.  My Zoom 9002 lasted
for 8 years and I was happy with the sounds I got out of it (also I
wasn't playing as much in those days).  I've had a Digitech RP-7
since the 9002 died and I recently bought a Zoom PS02 (the RP-7
was bought at a local shop, the PS02 from zZounds). No, I try not to 
demo things at a local shop and then buy on the Internet--I think 
that's unfair to the local store.  (I was trying to say in my last 
post that I don't like to do this--maybe I wasn't being clear, sorry.)

> Sure. You focused on the convenience to the vendor, but it's also more
> convenient to you. It costs you nothing to wander into Joe's Music to
> try out that distortion box that you end up not liking. If you buy it
> online and don't like it, you have to 1) pay for it up front, 2) pay
> for the shipping, 3) wait a few days to get it, 4) keep it in pristine
> condition while you try it to find you don't like it, 5) call up for an
> RMA, 6) take it to the shipping vendor, 6) pay return shipping.
> 
Yes, I agree there is more convienence in shopping locally which is
why it's surprising many people go online to save $20...

By the way, to be fair to zZounds I did not have to pay any shipping
for the returns because in the original shipment a tube that I
ordered for my RP-7 was broken (the worst packaging I have ever seen,
no peanuts or paper to prevent the DL4 box from slamming into the
tube holder which only had a minimal bubble-wrap around it--this
is another reason I'm not happy with zZounds).

> I might disagree. the LMS's have created a lot of this problem
> themselves. Many of them charge absolutely usury prices on things,
> unless you argue like you're in a Middle Eastern Bazarre, and a lot of
> people just don't like doing that. Many of them have the rudest
> employees I've ever encountered in a retail establishment. Seriously,
> the only retail place I can think of where I feel less comfortable then
> most music shops is a used car lot. I find them both distasteful and
> avoid most of the time.
> 
True, the local stores were taking advantage on their monopoly.
However, now that local shops no longer have a monopoly they are worth
going to again because they *have* to be more competitve price-wise.
For example, a local store in my hometown (not where I am now) sells
guitars for the Internet price!  They have realized that they won't
do any business otherwise.  So online merchants have been beneficial
in this respect...

> Beyond that, the other clientelle is often even more rude then the
> employees. How can you demo a piece of studio-quality gear when you
> have Eddie Van Kornhead blasting a Marshall stack 10 feet away? How
> long does it take to demo something? The last time I went to an LMS, I
> was there for half an hour looking around and a young man sat there
> playing a high powered halfstack the entire time (he was there before I
> came in, and was still there when I left...) WITHOUT CHANGING THE
> SETTINGS ON EITHER THE AMP OR THE GUITAR! Literally over an hour with
> one tone. It would have been pretty hard to try something out that
> day...
> 
I agree that's extreme.  When I bought my latest guitar (Guild S-100)
a few months ago I took my Zoom PS02 and headphones along to the store.
This was very useful because: 1) I was familiar with the sound ofthat 
setup and, 2) I didn't have to annoy anyone else with my playing. ;-)

> Ok, so I try something out in the store, think I like it, but then get
> it home and find it has some fatal flaw (like the midi implementation
> is so bad that it won't work with my other equipment). Many LMS's I've
> encountered had terrible return policies.
> 
Yes, I can see why you would want to return it in that case.  But
that shouldn't be an issue with something like a DL4 which has no
MIDI control.  And from what I've heard (from other people) the DL4
sounds are great--it's surprising that someone wouldn't like the
way it sounded with their equipment at home.

> The price issue is tough. It'd be a lot easier to deal with if the
> difference wasn't so big. I've frequently found things through mail
> order for (say..) $75 that a LMS absolutely won't budge below $150.
> Sorry, but that's double the price. My equipment budget is pretty
> limited as it is.
>  
Like I said above, many stores are realizing that they *have* to
compete with the online vendors.  It might take a while, but eventually
I doubt you'll see a local store charging double--no one would buy it.

> That's the other problem. At least in NH, you have the greater Boston
> area within driving distance. Here in Kansas, it's a 3 hour drive to
> get to anything beyond a Mom & Pop sized music store. Pro audio? Not in
> this state.
> 
Where I'm at Boston is 2.5 hours away.  True, there are some other
cities that are closer such as Concord or Manchester, but they're
still over an hour away.  It would be hard to establish a "relationship"
with those stores.  But I checked and a local music shop has a DL4 for
$249 which what I was paying at zZounds anyway...

> I don't have a problem with them sending me something that someone else
> tried out (and returned in perfect condition), EXCEPT if they tell me
> it hadn't been opened. That's really the only issue I see in your
> original gripe. You asked for an unopened box, and they told you that's
> what you'd get. That should have been the end of it. If they'd told you
> that they couldn't insure the one you got hadn't been opened, then
> that'd be a different thing, but that's what they promised you, so
> that's what you expect.
> 
Yes.  If they had just said that they couldn't guarantee a new one
would be sent I may have just kept the first one and been done with it.
But when I called and told them about the broken tube and then mentioned
that the DL4 wasn't factory sealed they offered to send me another one.
I specifically asked whether it would be brand new and I was told it
would be--the guy said he'd put a note on the order to that effect.  But
when I got the replacement order the packing slip *had* a note about 
better packaging for the tube but there was no note about a factory 
sealed unit.  So basically I was lied to and that's what really burns 
me...

> Service is a commodity we're all suffering problems with, and it's not
> just music stores. Local computer stores are just almost as bad. When I
> call for customer support at many places, I get the run around. Stores
> treat you like dirt. Etc.
> 
Hopefully some don't treat people like dirt--we just have to find the 
good ones...

> That's basically what I'm complaining about with local stores. If they
> offered better service, and a fair price (not necessarily a LOWER, or
> equal price) it would be a hands down win. But...they offer lousy
> service, rude employees, an uninviting atmosphere, very high prices,
> poor selection, etc. About the only advantage is that they might have
> the thing in stock where you could try it. Even that doesn't always
> happen. I went to a music store one time to try out a guitar, and the
> sales person offered to PLAY IT FOR ME, "so I could hear it". I told
> him that I wouldn't buy anything I couldn't try myself and was told
> "you might scratch it". (and it wasn't like they had any reason to
> think I wouldn't be careful, I was like 32 years old at the time,
> dressed well, etc!) I walked, never went back. What a joke.
> 
Obviously, some stores don't deserve our business and, if there is no
alternative, then mail order makes sense.  But I find myself looking
to mail order first which makes me wonder what I'm thinking.

The other reason to stay local is to keep the money in your own
community.  A lot of towns are in trouble because the local businesses
have been forced to close.  Musician's Friend and zZounds don't pay
any taxes to support my community...

> It's stuff like that which makes me want to buy mail order. But..even
> then, I'd be hesitant to buy something liek a guitar mail order, even
> within the same make & model, they feel and sound different. How could
> you know what you were getting?
> 
Yeah, nothing is cut and dried--but I think I'm going to try to buy
local from now on when I can...

Cheers,

Keith

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 21 18:38:27 2002
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Subject: Re: OT: CARP passed- this sucks.
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No it's .07 per play- but if SomaFM would pay 500 a day that is over 7000
songs per day- it adds up- and if it would have been .014 per play it would
have been $99 a day for them not $500- quite a difference.

Cliff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg House" <ghunicycle@yahoo.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 3:26 PM
Subject: Re: OT: CARP passed- this sucks.


>
> --- Clifford Novey <om@om-studios.com> wrote:
> > What a major bummer.
> >
> > http://www.somafm.com/
>
> They got a lower rate then what they'd asked for, but it's still
> outrageous. Something like $0.70/play, given 1000 listeners. I believe
> broadcast radio is still down in the 1 digit cents. Seems ridiculously
> unfair. And not only that, but it's still retroactive to 1998.
>
> As you say, major bummer.
>
> Greg
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
> http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
>
>
>


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>
> Windowing is allowing the Undo function to work even when it
> shouldn't. Every time you Overdub new sounds the EDP records
> onto a new section of memory, so when you Undo normally you're
> just going back in memory by one cycle.
> When you change the cycle length it wouldn't really
> make sense to still have this function, as you'll be jumping back
> into odd cut up sections of your earlier loops.
> However this is exactly what you CAN do with loop4.

Ahh, that clears it up (never quite understood the 'Undo bug' in version 3).
The sounds are pretty unpredictable, as my own memory loses track of what
was played when, and new cycle length totally recontextualizes everything.
This is huge fun (esp with the 8th quantize) and a rich source of 'found
sound'!


> This was so popular that Matthias improved it for
> Loop4, and Kim put it in the manual as a feature.

The manual explanation is pretty thorough, but I appreciate your willingness
to hold my hand here. Speaking to Andre's comment about wanting more
discourse on EDP and looping, I offer myself as the 'fool' who is willing to
ask questions, and implore others more shy than me to do the same. I think
more conversation will be facilitated by a little overkill, or redundancy,
rather than emphasizing "RTFM" and defaulting to silence...Esp. in light of
the awkward jargon necessary to discuss the EDP. There probably isn't a
better way of discussing it, as some have proposed. But I think the liberal
use of examples, patiently explained, as you and Andre have,  will go a long
way towards getting the current users, and potential new users up to speed.

>
> favourite-trick-of -the -moment
> loopswithinloops
>
> Quant=8th, InsertMode=Sub (or rPL)
> 8th/cycle=8th.
>
> Record a loop of about 1s.
> Then play sustained notes and use
> InsertButton to "drop in"  8th note fragments.
> After a while do a Multiply to about 16 cycles.
> Then when you Undo (longpress is better) you
> can hear the original short loop gradually evolving
> during the new long loop.


Looking forward to trying this. Thanks Andy.


I know its early in the game, but I'm trying to figure on which of the
DirectMidi commands would be best programmed from the footpedal (PMC10 in my
case) vs a manual controller (PC1600, keyboard, etc..). Idea being to not
have to change footpedal banks too often, but also having availability of
those juicy commands without taking hands off instrument...

This will become more clear in time, but...

Any feedback on this is welcome...


Neil


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Subject: RE: Repeater & FCB1010 Woes
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 18:49:49 -0400
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sorry for cross post ....

i'm using the 1010 to control pretty much everything you can on the repeater
via midi.  it took a long time to program.  if you're lucky, you got one
with the new rom that allows preset copying.

in any case, if you're using the repeater midi implementation sheet to
program cc's, you should also see the pc messages listed there.  i'm using a
lot of pc messages to control the repeater, but i had to discover by trial
and error that i needed to use the repeater's listed pc value +1 when i
programed the 1010, with the exception of Record (pc 4 i think), which
worked as listed.

you'll need to be patient (or more patient), verify that the midi channel
assignments on both ends are the same, and try things one at a time.  i
would recommend getting the repeater working with the 1010 first before
trying to integrate the other unit.

you can only send 2 cc messages per preset with the 1010, so if you need to
send cc's to your other unit, you'll need to assign a different midi channel
to one of the 2 CC 'slots' in the global config and send only one cc to each
unit, because the midi channel assignments for each message are global.  if
you just want to send pc messages to the other unit, dedicate one of the 5
pc 'slots' to this and change it's global midi assignment.  same with the
pedals.

if you haven't downloaded the updated manual from electrix, i recommend
going to their home page and doing so.  you may have the newer manual in
paper already, but it wouldn't hurt to check.  i don't know if electrix has
had any opportunity to reedit the midi message charts, but they seriously
need to.

fwiw, after i setup things properly, it's been working just fine.

good luck,

mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Dallarda [mailto:jdallar@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 1:26 AM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Repeater & FCB1010 Woes


I'm hoping someone can help me with controlling repeater with the behringer
fcb1010 before i totally lose it.

One of the main confusions is this- without me programming anything on
preset #2, the pedals on preset 2 can scroll through track select 1-4,
engage play, record, overdub, stop, mute track 1, mute track 2, and mute
input, which is a hell of a lot better set-up than i've managed to program
myself as of yet.
But this is (part of)what i'm not getting- I thought the fcb1010 can only
send 2 CC messages per preset, and that repeater only responds to cc
messages, and not program change messages. If so, how can this many
different functions be accessed? Is this not correct? Does controller
message also mean program change message, of which the fcb1010 can send 5?
Also, I just don't understand how the global edit mode affects the preset
edit mode- do you have to specify what kind of midi function you want to
assign to each pedal in the global edit mode separetly for each pedal? The
damn manual is even worse than a roland manual, minus the strange syntax.
One last question- is there a painless and not too time consuming way to
suggest how i might go about programming the fcb1010 to access as much of
the repeaters front panel as possible, send a program change and continuess
controller messages to an aleises midiverb (for changing vocal presets and
controlling the amount of delay for vocals in real-time) and a program
change and gain boost message (for loud sections of any particular song), to
a pod, while having the repeater and a filter factory and mo-fx midi-synced
to a roland 880 hard disk recorder without the mo-fx and filter factory
recieving any kind of midi messages aside from being midi synced? (take
breath).
I know this is asking a lot, thanks,
j.




_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

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Subject: Re: OT: CARP passed- this sucks.
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 00:07:04 +0100
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Well, it might not be as bad as it could have been - but it just goes to
show that Democracy has this one single problem.  It requires participation.

Thanks for those of you who took the trouble to contact their
congressman/senator about this.  Shame on the rest, alas, but if you feel
remorse at this unfortunately late point, get in touch with your
congressman/senator to voice your disappointment and concerns.

http://www.copyright.gov/carp/webcasting_rates_final.html

Stephen P. Goodman
EarthLight Productions
*
http://www.earthlight.net/Studios - The Free Loop of the Week!
http://www.live365.com/stations/218194 - EarthLight Online
(at least until Live365 and the other non-aligned webcasters go out of
business as a result of this passing)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Clifford Novey" <om@om-studios.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 23:36 PM
Subject: Re: OT: CARP passed- this sucks.


> No it's .07 per play- but if SomaFM would pay 500 a day that is over 7000
> songs per day- it adds up- and if it would have been .014 per play it
would
> have been $99 a day for them not $500- quite a difference.
>
> Cliff
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Greg House" <ghunicycle@yahoo.com>
> To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 3:26 PM
> Subject: Re: OT: CARP passed- this sucks.
>
>
> >
> > --- Clifford Novey <om@om-studios.com> wrote:
> > > What a major bummer.
> > >
> > > http://www.somafm.com/
> >
> > They got a lower rate then what they'd asked for, but it's still
> > outrageous. Something like $0.70/play, given 1000 listeners. I believe
> > broadcast radio is still down in the 1 digit cents. Seems ridiculously
> > unfair. And not only that, but it's still retroactive to 1998.
> >
> > As you say, major bummer.
> >
> > Greg
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
> > http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 21 19:11:45 2002
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Neil wrote:

I know its early in the game, but I'm trying to figure on which of the
DirectMidi commands would be best programmed from the footpedal (PMC10 in my
case) vs a manual controller (PC1600, keyboard, etc..). Idea being to not
have to change footpedal banks too often, but also having availability of
those juicy commands without taking hands off instrument...

**I don't have the upgrade yet, but I have taken to using two PMCs (2nd one
was acquired as backup) so I don't have to change banks--this in conjunction
with the PC1600--I doubt if more power under the hood of the EDP will make
this less necessary.  Be aware that the PC1600x doesn't send proper note
offs--
Hey, I've got a request for the OS that hasn't arrived yet--how about being
able to use CCs AND note info (like the Repeater).  That would be cool . . .

Much thanks again to all concerned--it's the best Christmas ever . . .
Gary

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At 12:07 AM +0100 6/22/02, Stephen P. Goodman wrote:
>Well, it might not be as bad as it could have been - but it just goes to
>show that Democracy has this one single problem.  It requires participation.

>http://www.copyright.gov/carp/webcasting_rates_final.html

I just visited the Copyright Office site (the URL above) and chided 
the Librarian of Congress for pandering to the record companies, 
using the Contact link on that page. I recommend this to others.
-- 

______________________________________________________________
Richard Zvonar, PhD
(818) 788-2202
http://www.zvonar.com
http://RZCybernetics.com
http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 21 19:47:41 2002
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Thanks Richard!

I wrote them as well, and used the word "collaboration".

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Zvonar" <zvonar@zvonar.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2002 00:34 AM
Subject: Re: OT: CARP passed- this sucks.


> At 12:07 AM +0100 6/22/02, Stephen P. Goodman wrote:
> >Well, it might not be as bad as it could have been - but it just goes to
> >show that Democracy has this one single problem.  It requires
participation.
>
> >http://www.copyright.gov/carp/webcasting_rates_final.html
>
> I just visited the Copyright Office site (the URL above) and chided
> the Librarian of Congress for pandering to the record companies,
> using the Contact link on that page. I recommend this to others.
> --
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Richard Zvonar, PhD
> (818) 788-2202
> http://www.zvonar.com
> http://RZCybernetics.com
> http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
> http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz
>
>
>
>

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At 12:46 AM +0100 6/22/02, Stephen P. Goodman wrote:

>I wrote them as well, and used the word "collaboration".

I used the phrase "shame on you."
-- 

______________________________________________________________
Richard Zvonar, PhD
(818) 788-2202
http://www.zvonar.com
http://RZCybernetics.com
http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz

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Uh, I'm not totally clear on how Soma FM webcasts, but I do know there are
only 1440 minutes in a day.  Now even if all they played was Ramones songs,
that still wouldn't add up to 7000 songs.  Say each song was 4 minutes.  That
would mean they could play 360 songs a day.  That would make it $25.20 a day.
How does that add up to $500?  Are they playing multiple streams?  That sounds
like a tremendous amount of bandwidth.

Mark Sottilaro

Clifford Novey wrote:

> No it's .07 per play- but if SomaFM would pay 500 a day that is over 7000
> songs per day- it adds up- and if it would have been .014 per play it would
> have been $99 a day for them not $500- quite a difference.
>
> Cliff
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Greg House" <ghunicycle@yahoo.com>
> To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 3:26 PM
> Subject: Re: OT: CARP passed- this sucks.
>
> >
> > --- Clifford Novey <om@om-studios.com> wrote:
> > > What a major bummer.
> > >
> > > http://www.somafm.com/
> >
> > They got a lower rate then what they'd asked for, but it's still
> > outrageous. Something like $0.70/play, given 1000 listeners. I believe
> > broadcast radio is still down in the 1 digit cents. Seems ridiculously
> > unfair. And not only that, but it's still retroactive to 1998.
> >
> > As you say, major bummer.
> >
> > Greg
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
> > http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 21 20:39:15 2002
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Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 17:39:17 -0700
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They had 8 or 12 different stations- 
C


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Sottilaro [mailto:sine@zerocrossing.net]
> Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 5:08 PM
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Subject: Re: OT: CARP passed- this sucks.
> 
> Uh, I'm not totally clear on how Soma FM webcasts, but I do know there
are
> only 1440 minutes in a day.  Now even if all they played was Ramones
> songs,
> that still wouldn't add up to 7000 songs.  Say each song was 4
minutes.
> That
> would mean they could play 360 songs a day.  That would make it $25.20
a
> day.
> How does that add up to $500?  Are they playing multiple streams?
That
> sounds
> like a tremendous amount of bandwidth.
> 
> Mark Sottilaro
> 
> Clifford Novey wrote:
> 
> > No it's .07 per play- but if SomaFM would pay 500 a day that is over
> 7000
> > songs per day- it adds up- and if it would have been .014 per play
it
> would
> > have been $99 a day for them not $500- quite a difference.
> >
> > Cliff
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Greg House" <ghunicycle@yahoo.com>
> > To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> > Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 3:26 PM
> > Subject: Re: OT: CARP passed- this sucks.
> >
> > >
> > > --- Clifford Novey <om@om-studios.com> wrote:
> > > > What a major bummer.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.somafm.com/
> > >
> > > They got a lower rate then what they'd asked for, but it's still
> > > outrageous. Something like $0.70/play, given 1000 listeners. I
believe
> > > broadcast radio is still down in the 1 digit cents. Seems
ridiculously
> > > unfair. And not only that, but it's still retroactive to 1998.
> > >
> > > As you say, major bummer.
> > >
> > > Greg
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
> > > http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> 


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 21 20:53:08 2002
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Well, if you think the person who tried out your pre opened device and got
cooties all over it and over drove the inputs for a week straight that you
had it, wrap your head around the possibility of the resentful slave
laborer and the unthinkable things they did with your DL4 before he sent
it to be factory sealed.

Remember the soup in fight club?

Mark

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 21 21:28:29 2002
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Subject: Re: Mail Order vs local
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> 
> Well, if you think the person who tried out your pre opened device and got
> cooties all over it and over drove the inputs for a week straight that you
> had it, wrap your head around the possibility of the resentful slave
> laborer and the unthinkable things they did with your DL4 before he sent
> it to be factory sealed.
> 
> Remember the soup in fight club?
> 
> Mark
> 
I'm sorry my desire to have a factory sealed unit has offended you.
I'll spare you any further offence by leaving the list.

Thanks to everyone who answered my questions,

Keith

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 21 22:26:49 2002
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Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 19:25:15 -0700
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: Kim Flint <kflint@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Re: OT: CARP passed- this sucks.
In-Reply-To: <002801c21974$16d42da0$0801a8c0@vz.dsl.genuity.net>
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I don't really know many details about the CARP thing, in regards to what 
royalty rates would be fair or not. I do listen to Live365 a lot though. In 
my opinion, Herb Tarlek is a sales and marketing genius compared to these 
guys. For all the listener hours they claim to get, the ads they manage to 
sell are simply pathetic. All the other sites I've seen seem about the same 
or worse. No wonder they freak out about having to pay a royalty.

It seems to me that broadcasters should pay some royalty to whoever owns 
rights to a piece of music, whether they are on the web or radio waves or 
whatever. I have no ideas about what that rate should be, I gather that is 
what a lot of the controversy is about. However, it seems pretty clear to 
me that if the number is bigger than zero most or all of these webcasting 
companies will go out of business very quickly. Most likely they will get 
replaced by new webcasting companies that actually know how to run a 
broadcasting *business*, as opposed to just knowing how to set up the 
servers for one and code some html.

kim

At 03:36 PM 6/21/2002, Clifford Novey wrote:
>No it's .07 per play- but if SomaFM would pay 500 a day that is over 7000
>songs per day- it adds up- and if it would have been .014 per play it would
>have been $99 a day for them not $500- quite a difference.
>
>Cliff
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Greg House" <ghunicycle@yahoo.com>
>To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
>Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 3:26 PM
>Subject: Re: OT: CARP passed- this sucks.
>
>
> >
> > --- Clifford Novey <om@om-studios.com> wrote:
> > > What a major bummer.
> > >
> > > http://www.somafm.com/
> >
> > They got a lower rate then what they'd asked for, but it's still
> > outrageous. Something like $0.70/play, given 1000 listeners. I believe
> > broadcast radio is still down in the 1 digit cents. Seems ridiculously
> > unfair. And not only that, but it's still retroactive to 1998.
> >
> > As you say, major bummer.
> >
> > Greg
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
> > http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 21 22:43:04 2002
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  From what I gather, it's not so much the rates as it is the fact that
internet radio has to pay an extra fee that the regular radio stations
don't. Everyone pays to BMI or ASCAP for rights to broadcast. The
Internet guys pay that and then this CARP fee to the RIAA because the
RIAA claims that it's easier to copy from Internet radio. 
  It's a punitive fee, used as a weapon in the RIAA's war on all
Internet audio technology.


on 6/21/02 Kim Flint wrote:

>I don't really know many details about the CARP thing, in regards to 
>what 
>royalty rates would be fair or not. I do listen to Live365 a lot
though. 
>In 
>my opinion, Herb Tarlek is a sales and marketing genius compared to 
>these 
>guys. For all the listener hours they claim to get, the ads they manage 
>to 
>sell are simply pathetic. All the other sites I've seen seem about the 
>same 
>or worse. No wonder they freak out about having to pay a royalty.
>
>It seems to me that broadcasters should pay some royalty to whoever
owns 
>rights to a piece of music, whether they are on the web or radio waves 
>or 
>whatever. I have no ideas about what that rate should be, I gather that 
>is 
>what a lot of the controversy is about. However, it seems pretty clear 
>to 
>me that if the number is bigger than zero most or all of these 
>webcasting 
>companies will go out of business very quickly. Most likely they will 
>get 
>replaced by new webcasting companies that actually know how to run a 
>broadcasting *business*, as opposed to just knowing how to set up the 
>servers for one and code some html.
>
>kim
>
>At 03:36 PM 6/21/2002, Clifford Novey wrote:
>>No it's .07 per play- but if SomaFM would pay 500 a day that is over 
>7000
>>songs per day- it adds up- and if it would have been .014 per play it 
>would
>>have been $99 a day for them not $500- quite a difference.
>>
>>Cliff
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Greg House" <ghunicycle@yahoo.com>
>>To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
>>Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 3:26 PM
>>Subject: Re: OT: CARP passed- this sucks.
>>
>>
>> >
>> > --- Clifford Novey <om@om-studios.com> wrote:
>> > > What a major bummer.
>> > >
>> > > http://www.somafm.com/
>> >
>> > They got a lower rate then what they'd asked for, but it's still
>> > outrageous. Something like $0.70/play, given 1000 listeners. I 
>believe
>> > broadcast radio is still down in the 1 digit cents. Seems 
>ridiculously
>> > unfair. And not only that, but it's still retroactive to 1998.
>> >
>> > As you say, major bummer.
>> >
>> > Greg
>> >
>> > __________________________________________________
>> > Do You Yahoo!?
>> > Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
>> > http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
>______________________________________________________________________
>Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
>kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com
>
------------------------------------------
Greg Kucharo-                                 
mutantaudio.com


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 21 23:25:28 2002
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Subject: CARP passed- this sucks.
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A good explanation is here:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8271-2002May25.html
Also, I've heard but have yet to confirm that the RIAA will be collecting
fees "on behalf" of artists and labels that are not RIAA members. Meaning
that if I have a song that plays on somafm or any live365 stream (etc) the
RIAA is collecting money for that song... and I highly doubt that I or any
other small artist will see that money unless we go to the RIAA and demand
it.
-
valerie

>  From what I gather, it's not so much the rates as it is the fact that
>internet radio has to pay an extra fee that the regular radio stations
>don't. Everyone pays to BMI or ASCAP for rights to broadcast. The
>Internet guys pay that and then this CARP fee to the RIAA because the
>RIAA claims that it's easier to copy from Internet radio.
>  It's a punitive fee, used as a weapon in the RIAA's war on all
>Internet audio technology.
>
>
>on 6/21/02 Kim Flint wrote:
>
>>I don't really know many details about the CARP thing, in regards to
>>what
>>royalty rates would be fair or not....


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 22 01:12:45 2002
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Hello Mr. Flint,

I'm Herb Linkletter from the IIPA (Internet Information Publishing 
Association)  We've started this association to protect writers that 
want to publish on the Information Superhighway.  We represent companies 
like Time/Warner and Randomhouse.  We're going to impose a nominal fee 
for all writings downloaded from all sites on the internet, as to 
protect the writers signed to publishing companies.  This will include 
any information in text format, such as the list archives that are now 
hosted on the Looper's Delight website.  Now, while no publishers have 
contracts with any of the people posting on the LD site, they could 
quite possibly sometime in the future, and therefore we have to protect 
the artists that so eloquently post on the LD list.  We'll figure out a 
way to get them the money, never you mind.

If this fee of .07 US per email (yes, even for "me too's") is too much 
of a burden for you, I suggest you do a better marketing job and perhaps 
get some real advertising to help you make up the revenue.  We notice 
the LD site uses a lot of bandwidth, so obviously some people feel the 
information is useful and by useful, we mean worth money.

Thank you,

Herb Linkletter


On Friday, June 21, 2002, at 07:25  PM, Kim Flint wrote:

> I don't really know many details about the CARP thing, in regards to 
> what royalty rates would be fair or not. I do listen to Live365 a lot 
> though. In my opinion, Herb Tarlek is a sales and marketing genius 
> compared to these guys. For all the listener hours they claim to get, 
> the ads they manage to sell are simply pathetic. All the other sites 
> I've seen seem about the same or worse. No wonder they freak out about 
> having to pay a royalty.
>
> It seems to me that broadcasters should pay some royalty to whoever 
> owns rights to a piece of music, whether they are on the web or radio 
> waves or whatever. I have no ideas about what that rate should be, I 
> gather that is what a lot of the controversy is about. However, it 
> seems pretty clear to me that if the number is bigger than zero most or 
> all of these webcasting companies will go out of business very quickly. 
> Most likely they will get replaced by new webcasting companies that 
> actually know how to run a broadcasting *business*, as opposed to just 
> knowing how to set up the servers for one and code some html.
>
> kim
>
> At 03:36 PM 6/21/2002, Clifford Novey wrote:
>> No it's .07 per play- but if SomaFM would pay 500 a day that is over 
>> 7000
>> songs per day- it adds up- and if it would have been .014 per play it 
>> would
>> have been $99 a day for them not $500- quite a difference.
>>
>> Cliff
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Greg House" <ghunicycle@yahoo.com>
>> To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
>> Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 3:26 PM
>> Subject: Re: OT: CARP passed- this sucks.
>>
>>
>> >
>> > --- Clifford Novey <om@om-studios.com> wrote:
>> > > What a major bummer.
>> > >
>> > > http://www.somafm.com/
>> >
>> > They got a lower rate then what they'd asked for, but it's still
>> > outrageous. Something like $0.70/play, given 1000 listeners. I 
>> believe
>> > broadcast radio is still down in the 1 digit cents. Seems 
>> ridiculously
>> > unfair. And not only that, but it's still retroactive to 1998.
>> >
>> > As you say, major bummer.
>> >
>> > Greg
>> >
>> > __________________________________________________
>> > Do You Yahoo!?
>> > Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
>> > http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
> kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com
>

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It's always healthy to cull the herd.

I'm totally not offended in any way, and I'm not sure how I expressed 
that in any of my emails.  I was just trying to show you another 
possible viewpoint.  I welcome it, which is why I'm on this list.

Mark Sottilaro

On Friday, June 21, 2002, at 06:27  PM, Keith Kotay wrote:

>>
>> Well, if you think the person who tried out your pre opened device and 
>> got
>> cooties all over it and over drove the inputs for a week straight that 
>> you
>> had it, wrap your head around the possibility of the resentful slave
>> laborer and the unthinkable things they did with your DL4 before he 
>> sent
>> it to be factory sealed.
>>
>> Remember the soup in fight club?
>>
>> Mark
>>
> I'm sorry my desire to have a factory sealed unit has offended you.
> I'll spare you any further offence by leaving the list.
>
> Thanks to everyone who answered my questions,
>
> Keith
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 22 02:36:20 2002
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From: Goddess <thefates@earthlink.net>
Subject: Hi, it's me again...
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  <smile>  I everyone, yes, it's me, returning at long last yet again, from
the great beyond.  lol!  
  Anyway, -wanted to say hello, and also have a REpeater question.  First
off, I absolutely LOVE IT!, but am finding that it's a bit noisy compared
to my other gear.  I think I'll be able to manage just fine with it, but am
just concerned whether or not it's working properly.  The noise I'm getting
seems to be at about 120 or 130 hz or so, and is sort of a buzzy, hummy
processing noise, modulating ever so slightly.   lol!  -What  a
description!   lollollol!  
  Anyway, It's not horrible, but is about 5 times  more prevalent than my
other gear.  -But as I said, I think I can get sufficient level enough so
it won't be a problem.  Is this normal?  Thanks for any ideas anyone might
have, and nice to be back yet again...  lol!  

Smiles,

G-Girl




---

  "The only things I really think are important, are love, and eachother.
-Then, anything is possible..."  

http://home.earthlink.net/~thefates

Please visit The Guitar Cafe.  

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-guitar-cafe 


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Subject: RE: CARP passed- this sucks.
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 08:45:43 +0200
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Actually, as I understand it (at least it's that way in Germany on the
oldskool transmission channels), the GEMA collects money for the mentioned
songs, and to get your money (emphasis on "your"), which they collected, you
have to become a member of the GEMA, for which you have to pay, and then
register your compositions with them, for which you have to pay, too...

Rainer Straschill
Moinlabs GFX and Soundworks - www.moinlabs.de <http://www.moinlabs.de>
digital penis expert group - www.dpeg.de <http://www.dpeg.de>
The MoinSound Archives - www.mp3.com/moinlabs <http://www.mp3.com/moinlabs>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: valerie [mailto:valerie@valerium.net]
> Sent: Samstag, 22. Juni 2002 05:24
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Subject: CARP passed- this sucks.
>
>
> A good explanation is here:
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8271-2002May25.html
> Also, I've heard but have yet to confirm that the RIAA will
> be collecting
> fees "on behalf" of artists and labels that are not RIAA
> members. Meaning
> that if I have a song that plays on somafm or any live365
> stream (etc) the
> RIAA is collecting money for that song... and I highly doubt
> that I or any
> other small artist will see that money unless we go to the
> RIAA and demand
> it.
> -
> valerie
>
> >  From what I gather, it's not so much the rates as it is
> the fact that
> >internet radio has to pay an extra fee that the regular
> radio stations
> >don't. Everyone pays to BMI or ASCAP for rights to broadcast. The
> >Internet guys pay that and then this CARP fee to the RIAA because the
> >RIAA claims that it's easier to copy from Internet radio.
> >  It's a punitive fee, used as a weapon in the RIAA's war on all
> >Internet audio technology.
> >
> >
> >on 6/21/02 Kim Flint wrote:
> >
> >>I don't really know many details about the CARP thing, in regards to
> >>what
> >>royalty rates would be fair or not....
>
>

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Welcome back.

You're issue with the Repeater is probably due to the fact that it's 
strictly a line level device in terms of it's outputs.  I've never 
really plugged a mic or instrument into it's front jack, but the output 
is HOT, and not designed to go into a high gain preamp, such as a guitar 
amp.  It's best put in the (line level) effects loop of  your guitar 
amp, if you happen to have one.  If you can't work this way, there are 
devices on the market that convert line to instrument level, and back 
again.  This makes the Repeater a little tricky for guitar players, 
unless  you're like me, and your signal never really ends up at a 
traditional guitar amp.  (guitar-Digitech 2120 preamp-Repeater-mixer to 
a pair of Mackie 450s is how I have mine set up)

good luck,

Mark Sottilaro


On Friday, June 21, 2002, at 11:35  PM, Goddess wrote:

>   <smile>  I everyone, yes, it's me, returning at long last yet again, 
> from
> the great beyond.  lol!
>   Anyway, -wanted to say hello, and also have a REpeater question.  
> First
> off, I absolutely LOVE IT!, but am finding that it's a bit noisy 
> compared
> to my other gear.  I think I'll be able to manage just fine with it, 
> but am
> just concerned whether or not it's working properly.  The noise I'm 
> getting
> seems to be at about 120 or 130 hz or so, and is sort of a buzzy, hummy
> processing noise, modulating ever so slightly.   lol!  -What  a
> description!   lollollol!
>   Anyway, It's not horrible, but is about 5 times  more prevalent than 
> my
> other gear.  -But as I said, I think I can get sufficient level enough 
> so
> it won't be a problem.  Is this normal?  Thanks for any ideas anyone 
> might
> have, and nice to be back yet again...  lol!
>
> Smiles,
>
> G-Girl
>
>
>
>
> ---
>
>   "The only things I really think are important, are love, and 
> eachother.
> -Then, anything is possible..."
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~thefates
>
> Please visit The Guitar Cafe.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-guitar-cafe
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 22 03:36:18 2002
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Subject: Re: CARP passed- this sucks.
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 08:34:54 +0100
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Combine this recent collusion with the stuff preceding it posted by myself
previously, and what you get is the situation I was talking about: where, in
order to legally claim or collect copyright or performance payments, an
artist must form an entire company, including escrow-handling functions, and
later have to report all disbursed moneys to the Gubmint as well!

Previous analysis by myself is found at
http://www.earthlight.net/Thoughts002.html on this.  This ain't "black
helicopter thinking" folks.

> A good explanation is here:
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8271-2002May25.html
> Also, I've heard but have yet to confirm that the RIAA will be collecting
> fees "on behalf" of artists and labels that are not RIAA members. Meaning
> that if I have a song that plays on somafm or any live365 stream (etc) the
> RIAA is collecting money for that song... and I highly doubt that I or any
> other small artist will see that money unless we go to the RIAA and demand
> it.
> -
> valerie
>
> >  From what I gather, it's not so much the rates as it is the fact that
> >internet radio has to pay an extra fee that the regular radio stations
> >don't. Everyone pays to BMI or ASCAP for rights to broadcast. The
> >Internet guys pay that and then this CARP fee to the RIAA because the
> >RIAA claims that it's easier to copy from Internet radio.
> >  It's a punitive fee, used as a weapon in the RIAA's war on all
> >Internet audio technology.
> >
> >
> >on 6/21/02 Kim Flint wrote:
> >
> >>I don't really know many details about the CARP thing, in regards to
> >>what
> >>royalty rates would be fair or not....
>
>
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 22 03:53:05 2002
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Hey there, welcome back. You are in the Orlando FL area still? If you
are, that's 2 loopers for a Southeastern Looping Festival! (I am still
in the Tampa area).

Dave Eichenberger- guitars.loops.devices
http://www.hazardfactor.com
 

 
> 
>   <smile>  I everyone, yes, it's me, returning at long last 
> yet again, from the great beyond.  lol!  
>  

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 22 07:55:28 2002
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hi neil

keep asking

> The manual explanation is pretty thorough, but I appreciate your willingness
>  to hold my hand here. Speaking to Andre's comment about wanting more
>  discourse on EDP and looping, I offer myself as the 'fool' who is willing 
to
>  ask questions, and implore others more shy than me to do the same. I think
>  more conversation will be facilitated by a little overkill, or redundancy,
>  rather than emphasizing "RTFM" and defaulting to silence...Esp. in light of

well it's not easy being a question answerer ;-)
I get the posts through the digest, with a bit of a delay.
So by the time I get to read the question Kim's possibly 
already written a brief essay about it and posted, leaving
any extra comments redundant.
Most obvious tactic is to wait to see if anyone else answers 
first. (then forget)


>  
>  I know its early in the game, but I'm trying to figure on which of the
>  DirectMidi commands would be best programmed from the footpedal (PMC10 in 
my
>  case) vs a manual controller (PC1600, keyboard, etc..). Idea being to not
>  have to change footpedal banks too often, but also having availability of
>  those juicy commands without taking hands off instrument...
>  
>  This will become more clear in time, but...
>  
>  Any feedback on this is welcome...
>  

depends on whether you want to keep the standard footpedal
next to the MIDI controller.
...but anyway there's just loads of possibilities


Note that the different InsertMode possibilities have direct
access from MIDI. (halfspeed, reverse , replace etc.)
Having all these functions available at once is 
the first thing I tried.


Using the controller like a Keyboard, sending Note-on to
select Loops looks like fun.  Controls most functions.
( "Double-Click – SmartButton Presses")

The "presets" are useful for things like going in and out of Quantise. 


It all depends on what you want to achieve musically.

andy butler

 

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> > Stu
>  > StutterMode
>  > If you have a single cycle loop running, you can enjoy
>  > this Mode by using Insert followed by Record to copy small
>  > chunks of the loop.
>  > Or use Insertmode =SUS (a trick discovered by Andre LaFosse)
>  > A bit like time stretching the loop.
>  
>  What do you think of the term "SubCycle Multiply" for this one?
>  
>  --Andre

Well I like it, 
.....................but guess it's too late for the manual.

andy 

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valerie said,

>Meaning
>that if I have a song that plays on somafm or any live365 stream (etc)
>the
>RIAA is collecting money for that song... and I highly doubt that I or
>any
>other small artist will see that money unless we go to the RIAA and demand
>it.
..... although i'd say that you're a few thousand percent *more* likely to 
receive these monies on 'demand' from the RIAA than you ever will be from 
receiving sales/mechanical royalties from any random record company.....
just a thought.
best,
dt / s-c

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 22 09:52:14 2002
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From: "Claude Voit" <c.voit@vtx.ch>
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Subject: [GIG SWITZERLAND] SeeWhat? At Amalgame Yverdon Tonight june 22
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 15:50:32 +0200
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Swiss Loopers (if any...?)
Yes you heard it right I'm playing in Yverdon tonight at the Amalgame club 
acoustic guitars and electronic tweaks

Show up Ill pay the beer

Claude

WWW.Amalgameclub.ch

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To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
References: <18c.98761f6.2a45bf3a@aol.com>
Subject: Loop4 MIDI / EFC-7
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 07:49:41 -0700
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> depends on whether you want to keep the standard footpedal
> next to the MIDI controller.
> ...but anyway there's just loads of possibilities

What status DOES the stock EDP EFC-7 foot pedal now hold?  

Is it a viable controller in:

1. Stand alone use 
2 Conjunction with MIDI controller

?

David

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 22 11:11:51 2002
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	ETAuAhUAmeEfBfk0Ejnh3untiS/uQltSWPQCFQCUShbQe9Tamobs06raCYZn1ZoDQw== 
From: BILLYBUDDHA@webtv.net (William Mcallister)
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 08:10:40 -0700 (PDT)
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Mail Order vs local
Message-ID: <21112-3D149370-3833@storefull-2357.public.lawson.webtv.net>
In-Reply-To: Mark Sottilaro <sine@zerocrossing.net>'s message of Fri, 21
	Jun 2002 17:51:25 -0700
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To Mr. Keith Kotay- dont be disturbed by Mark Sottilaro's comments. At
the heart of things he means well, he actually wants you you enjoy your
dl4. For reasons unkown, dear Mark needs constant reassurance of his
intellectual ego in a way that his psychological make-up hates anyone
who knows less than him, as in the projection of putting himself up here
and you ( us, many people) down there. Its just an illusion he has
created for himself. Behind all that he is a Soul, as is everyone. Also
you would be doing yourself a dishoner by buying into his insanity as LD
listserver has a wealth of knowledge to offer you in your looping
adventures as well as many good hearted people with exquisite knowledge
of the field. Once again dont be dismayed by LD's underpayed security
gaurd. He means well. Many Blessings, Bill/Las Vegas

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 22 11:16:57 2002
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From: "Stephen P. Goodman" <spgoodman@earthlight.net>
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References: <21112-3D149370-3833@storefull-2357.public.lawson.webtv.net>
Subject: Re: Mail Order vs local
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 16:15:43 +0100
Organization: EarthLight Productions
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I don't think such is acceptable.  Granted I've lost my temper on LD before,
especially after 9/11, but I never attempted to personally do damage to
anyone like this.

----- Original Message -----

From: "William Mcallister" <BILLYBUDDHA@webtv.net>

<personal attack snipped>

>Many Blessings, Bill/Las Vegas

That's a bit like the effect critics of $cientology call the "smiling
thetan".  In other words, the smile you get at the same time as a sharp
object in the back.  Quite common with that bunch.

Stephen P. Goodman
EarthLight Productions
*
http://www.earthlight.net/Studios - The Free Loop of the Week!
http://www.earthlight.net/Gallery_Front.html - Cartoons!
http://www.earthlight.net/HiddenTrack.html - More Cartoons!

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 22 12:46:55 2002
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Subject: Re: Hi, it's me again...repeater buzz noise
From: Beatrice and Matthew Jasper <jasp@metrocast.net>
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Hello-- 

     I heard the buzz you describe through headphone jacks & was wondering
if other units did that also & I guess the answer must be yes.   actual line
out appears to be less affected and with audio levels at appropriate setting
I don't notice it in the final loops unless there's a short segment of
silence.   Even then, not so bad.....     Have been having fun with the
repeater also though I don't fully comprehend it yet....

Best Wishes,

M. Jasper, Esq.

www.mp3.com/pneumershonic




> From: Goddess <thefates@earthlink.net>
> Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 00:35:17 -0600
> To: loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com
> Subject: Hi, it's me again...
> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 02:35:52 -0400
> 
> <smile>  I everyone, yes, it's me, returning at long last yet again, from
> the great beyond.  lol!
> Anyway, -wanted to say hello, and also have a REpeater question.  First
> off, I absolutely LOVE IT!, but am finding that it's a bit noisy compared
> to my other gear.  I think I'll be able to manage just fine with it, but am
> just concerned whether or not it's working properly.  The noise I'm getting
> seems to be at about 120 or 130 hz or so, and is sort of a buzzy, hummy
> processing noise, modulating ever so slightly.   lol!  -What  a
> description!   lollollol!
> Anyway, It's not horrible, but is about 5 times  more prevalent than my
> other gear.  -But as I said, I think I can get sufficient level enough so
> it won't be a problem.  Is this normal?  Thanks for any ideas anyone might
> have, and nice to be back yet again...  lol!
> 
> Smiles,
> 
> G-Girl
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> 
> "The only things I really think are important, are love, and eachother.
> -Then, anything is possible..."
> 
> http://home.earthlink.net/~thefates
> 
> Please visit The Guitar Cafe.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-guitar-cafe
> 
> 
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 22 14:01:48 2002
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From: Goddess <thefates@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Hi, it's me again...
In-Reply-To: <6DE0732A-85AC-11D6-8180-00039313A494@zerocrossing.net>
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  Hi Mark, I don't use a guitar amp at all.  -Just a reference amplifier.
So I run line level all the way from the preamp outs onward.  
  Yes, I checked both the instrument input, with both the headphone out,
and main outs, and then also the main input and outputs.  The noise level
seems better with the main outs, but still really noticable.  -As i said
though, I think I can still work with it, but has this been an issue with
you or any other repeater owners?  if there's a problem, I'll just see
about getting it taken care of.  Thanks for your thoughts, and any other
ideas you might have would also be greatly appreciated.  Have an awesome
day!, K?  

Smiles,

G-Girl


 At 11:51 PM 6/21/02 -0700, you wrote:
>Welcome back.
>
>You're issue with the Repeater is probably due to the fact that it's 
>strictly a line level device in terms of it's outputs.  I've never 
>really plugged a mic or instrument into it's front jack, but the output 
>is HOT, and not designed to go into a high gain preamp, such as a guitar 
>amp.  It's best put in the (line level) effects loop of  your guitar 
>amp, if you happen to have one.  If you can't work this way, there are 
>devices on the market that convert line to instrument level, and back 
>again.  This makes the Repeater a little tricky for guitar players, 
>unless  you're like me, and your signal never really ends up at a 
>traditional guitar amp.  (guitar-Digitech 2120 preamp-Repeater-mixer to 
>a pair of Mackie 450s is how I have mine set up)
>
>good luck,
>
>Mark Sottilaro
>
>
>On Friday, June 21, 2002, at 11:35  PM, Goddess wrote:
>
>>   <smile>  I everyone, yes, it's me, returning at long last yet again, 
>> from
>> the great beyond.  lol!
>>   Anyway, -wanted to say hello, and also have a REpeater question.  
>> First
>> off, I absolutely LOVE IT!, but am finding that it's a bit noisy 
>> compared
>> to my other gear.  I think I'll be able to manage just fine with it, 
>> but am
>> just concerned whether or not it's working properly.  The noise I'm 
>> getting
>> seems to be at about 120 or 130 hz or so, and is sort of a buzzy, hummy
>> processing noise, modulating ever so slightly.   lol!  -What  a
>> description!   lollollol!
>>   Anyway, It's not horrible, but is about 5 times  more prevalent than 
>> my
>> other gear.  -But as I said, I think I can get sufficient level enough 
>> so
>> it won't be a problem.  Is this normal?  Thanks for any ideas anyone 
>> might
>> have, and nice to be back yet again...  lol!
>>
>> Smiles,
>>
>> G-Girl
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>>   "The only things I really think are important, are love, and 
>> eachother.
>> -Then, anything is possible..."
>>
>> http://home.earthlink.net/~thefates
>>
>> Please visit The Guitar Cafe.
>>
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-guitar-cafe
>>
>>
>
>


---

  "The only things I really think are important, are love, and eachother.
-Then, anything is possible..."  

http://home.earthlink.net/~thefates

Please visit The Guitar Cafe.  

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-guitar-cafe 


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 22 14:09:45 2002
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To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: Goddess <thefates@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Hi, it's me again...repeater buzz noise
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  Thanks so much, it's funny, because the SNR is supposed to be 94 DB,
which is just slightly better than my other gear, but it's noisier.   lol!
go figure!  anyway, thanks for the confirmation...  

Smiles,

G-Girl

At 12:46 PM 6/22/02 -0700, you wrote:
>
>Hello-- 
>
>     I heard the buzz you describe through headphone jacks & was wondering
>if other units did that also & I guess the answer must be yes.   actual line
>out appears to be less affected and with audio levels at appropriate setting
>I don't notice it in the final loops unless there's a short segment of
>silence.   Even then, not so bad.....     Have been having fun with the
>repeater also though I don't fully comprehend it yet....
>
>Best Wishes,
>
>M. Jasper, Esq.
>
>www.mp3.com/pneumershonic
>
>
>
>
>> From: Goddess <thefates@earthlink.net>
>> Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>> Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 00:35:17 -0600
>> To: loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com
>> Subject: Hi, it's me again...
>> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>> Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 02:35:52 -0400
>> 
>> <smile>  I everyone, yes, it's me, returning at long last yet again, from
>> the great beyond.  lol!
>> Anyway, -wanted to say hello, and also have a REpeater question.  First
>> off, I absolutely LOVE IT!, but am finding that it's a bit noisy compared
>> to my other gear.  I think I'll be able to manage just fine with it, but am
>> just concerned whether or not it's working properly.  The noise I'm getting
>> seems to be at about 120 or 130 hz or so, and is sort of a buzzy, hummy
>> processing noise, modulating ever so slightly.   lol!  -What  a
>> description!   lollollol!
>> Anyway, It's not horrible, but is about 5 times  more prevalent than my
>> other gear.  -But as I said, I think I can get sufficient level enough so
>> it won't be a problem.  Is this normal?  Thanks for any ideas anyone might
>> have, and nice to be back yet again...  lol!
>> 
>> Smiles,
>> 
>> G-Girl
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ---
>> 
>> "The only things I really think are important, are love, and eachother.
>> -Then, anything is possible..."
>> 
>> http://home.earthlink.net/~thefates
>> 
>> Please visit The Guitar Cafe.
>> 
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-guitar-cafe
>> 
>> 
>> 
>
>


---

  "The only things I really think are important, are love, and eachother.
-Then, anything is possible..."  

http://home.earthlink.net/~thefates

Please visit The Guitar Cafe.  

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-guitar-cafe 


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 22 14:28:24 2002
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Subject: re: CARP Passed - This sucks!
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 11:26:34 -0700
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Now here's a question:

Can a streaming radio station exist by playing only songs of consenting 
artists and labels who are not affiliated with BMI/ASCAP?

There are enough good non-major-label artists who actually want their music 
to be heard to fill a huge number of stations in any genre, and I'd like to 
think there's a large enough audience that would be interested in hearing 
stuff that they don't already hear on the radio.

I think the reason that the major labels made the effort to squash internet 
radio is that they feared they would no longer have control of all the 
channels necessary to convince John Q. Average-American that the bands 
marketed by them are the only ones worth hearing. That's why they didn't 
make effort to charge the same rate to broadcast radio stations. 95% of 
broadcast radio stations exclusively play major-label material.

Anyway, it would be nice if we could turn this into a case of the majors 
shooting themselves in the foot. Wouldn't it be great if we said, "Ok, well 
since you're being such an asshole about it, we'll only play music by 
artists/labels who are in it for the art and community from now on."

Matt

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 22 14:35:08 2002
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From: "Gary Lehmann" <healthquestrecruiter@earthlink.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: It's Here!
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 11:33:54 -0700
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Hello all you loopy people--
As long anticipated, the LoopIV chips arrived today (I'm in San Diego,
California, and I ordered the chips last Monday night) and have been
successfully installed.  Tragically, I have a gig now and so cannot
experiment, but hope to get to it soon (you know I will!).
Hey Kim, how many upgrades have shipped so far?
Gary

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 22 14:52:03 2002
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From: armatronix <armatronix@charter.net>
Subject: Re: Loop4 MIDI / EFC-7
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The EFC-7 still does what it always has.  You can use it in conjunction 
with a MIDI controller if you wish.

Personally, I switched to a PMC-10 foot controller, but I'm considering 
adding the EFC-7 back to give me more buttons ;)

-Hans


At 07:49 22/06/2002, you wrote:
> > depends on whether you want to keep the standard footpedal
> > next to the MIDI controller.
> > ...but anyway there's just loads of possibilities
>
>What status DOES the stock EDP EFC-7 foot pedal now hold?
>
>Is it a viable controller in:
>
>1. Stand alone use
>2 Conjunction with MIDI controller
>
>?
>
>David


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 22 14:59:38 2002
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My Repeater was noisy when I first got it - even when the effects chain 
was disconnected.
I found that juggling around with the power adaptors (sticking them in 
different outlets - trying to separate them) solved my problem.

Might be worth trying if all else fails....
--
Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
http://www.solostring.com
stuart@solostring.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 22 15:22:49 2002
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From: "Luigi Meloni" <Luigimeloni74@libero.it>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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Subject: Re: CARP Passed - This sucks!
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 21:21:12 +0200
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Another question. I am an Italian artist. I'm not affiliated (obviously) to
BMI/ASCAP,  but have my rights protected by I.M.R.O. (the Irish rights
organization). My label has currently set up a radio station under mp3.com
or emusic.com  (that are American), that transmits only our music. What is
our position regarding this law? Do we have to pay RIAA for something? Does
this all have a sense to anyone of you?

We too in Italy have something similar to the CARP. The funny thing is that
in Italy the situation is even more complex. To explain it in few words, if
I (the sole owner of the rights on my compositions) want to put some of MY
music (for free) on MY internet site, then I'll have to pay to the SIAE (the
Italian rights organization) so that they collect the money and then pay ME,
the artist,  the sum minus the 40% of what I had to pay (the 40 % remains to
the SIAE for the expenses of collecting my money and giving it back to
me...). The funny thing is that I'm not affiliated to SIAE in any way, since
I'm affiliate to the IMRO, but I'll have to pay the same. If my compositions
were not copyrighted I would have to pay the same,  and the 100% of the
money would go to SIAE (and we are talking of quite some money).

Peace
Luigi

----- Original Message -----
From: "matt davignon" <mattdavignon@hotmail.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2002 8:26 PM
Subject: re: CARP Passed - This sucks!


> Now here's a question:
>
> Can a streaming radio station exist by playing only songs of consenting
> artists and labels who are not affiliated with BMI/ASCAP?
>
> There are enough good non-major-label artists who actually want their
music
> to be heard to fill a huge number of stations in any genre, and I'd like
to
> think there's a large enough audience that would be interested in hearing
> stuff that they don't already hear on the radio.
>
> I think the reason that the major labels made the effort to squash
internet
> radio is that they feared they would no longer have control of all the
> channels necessary to convince John Q. Average-American that the bands
> marketed by them are the only ones worth hearing. That's why they didn't
> make effort to charge the same rate to broadcast radio stations. 95% of
> broadcast radio stations exclusively play major-label material.
>
> Anyway, it would be nice if we could turn this into a case of the majors
> shooting themselves in the foot. Wouldn't it be great if we said, "Ok,
well
> since you're being such an asshole about it, we'll only play music by
> artists/labels who are in it for the art and community from now on."
>
> Matt
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>



From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 22 15:32:45 2002
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Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 12:31:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Richards <kohntarkosz@yahoo.com>
Subject: The RIAA are a bunch of commies
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I think what it comes down to is that the RIAA is
realizing that they and the record companies they
represent are fastly becoming obsolete, and
they're doing everything they can do stop that
from happening.

I have one question: if a song of mine gets
played on a webcast just once, how much will I
get from the RIAA for that broadcast? Will it be
substantially more or less (or the same) as what
I stand to make if someone hearing the broadcast
decides to buy my CD (which for the sake of
argument, let's say can be bought from me
directly for $10). 

My point is, a seriously doubt that most of the
artists out there who might concievably get
webcast airplay. Unless we're talking about Led
Zeppelin or The Who (who can played like 10 times
a day, everday on each classic rock station in
America), I seriously have a hard time
understanding how anyone stands to gain from
this. I don't know what the advantage is for
getting a check for 7 cents because a college
station in Alberta Canada or New Jersey or
wherever played one of my songs at 4:00 am. But I
DO know the advantage, if, say, 10 people who
hear that broadcast (and let's just for the sake
of argument say 8 of them are listening to the
webcast), decide they like what they hear and
follow up and actually buy my CD. If CARP ends up
pushing all non-commerical broadcasting off the
web, I think we end up losing in the wrong run. 


=====
May you never thirst!
The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris

"What do you get when you give a yo-yo to a flock of flamingos?"-James Earl Jones

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 22 16:49:57 2002
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From: charmah tiego <tiegolego@noos.fr>
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the Proco RAT! (R2Du), i sold my MXR distortion+ after getting one.
There is that QUADRAFUZZ (can't remember the manufacturer) unit that i used
in a studio that really sounds, although i am not sure it is all analogue
designed.
Happy fishing
Tiego


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Since we are talking about $$$ here etc, I have a question that no-one seems 
to be able to answer ...

not even say Josh Wink or King Britt have an answer or perhaps they dont wana 
tell me...but I wonder if in fact they really know how its "all" accounted 
for in their music beyond any licensing or one off remix fees they get up 
front.

how do you make $$$ off of dance music and get paid for your music as it 
climbs the so called dance charts?.

I've never understood how you get paid royalties for dance music and 
performances of your music by DJ's in clubs...and who collects them and then 
how do they pay you ?

Who tracks that activity and how is that covered in terms of any type of 
statistical sampling that they do which is perhaps like the methods used in 
tracking radio airplay?

I mean it seems to me that u dont have that type of consistency or any type 
of organized effort or designated "group" to monitor, collect or distribute 
$$$ earned or  attributed to or generated by "dance music"...am i wrong here?

Anybody who knows the answer to this question would have my deepest attention 
and would satisfy a very immediate & long standing curiousity i have had for 
the last yr & most intensely in recent days.

Anyways, re CARP, hmmmmm..

I think selling music and CD's etc is a thing of the past and that asking for 
people to buy a musical commodity is more or less a thing of the past too 
reagrdless as to whther u are established as a "brand" or not.

Nowadays (again IMHO) you gotta make and expect to generate money from live 
performances and or other things which have nothing to do with music, but are 
essentially where your music or "brand" (if u are so lucky to have one 
established of yourself)  will sell other things ie., clothing, cars, etc or 
ideally establish for you access to an audience where u can sell whatever 
merchandise you would have to offer them.

Seems like the trends today are you set up a licensing fee-structure (which 
is perhaps a screwover IMHO ) as that your work gets used and reused 
continually long after you have been bought out & bought out way SHort of 
what you could ever maximize from your music...
(but again the royalty based system isnt a stellar example of money getting 
into the hands of artists and maybe there is more logic in getting all your 
money loaded to you up front)

The Music Biz will never be as simple as being good, or bad or deserrving as 
much as it is about what types of perceptions you are able to either create 
for yourself or moreover buy and perhaps also be about how many other people 
you can make wanna be like you. - I always think that is key to any 
entertainment-music based success - u gotta make em wanna be like u.

So IMHO the pressing issue for musicians becomes how to enagage more than 
just your own thoughts & desires for fairness and how u get your own music 
heard and distributed while also generating some type of consistent or 
semi-reliable revenue stream(s) for yourself and how ya would act to create 
opportunities to do what you "need to do" for whatever reasons u would do it 
individually or collectively etc..

I think that stuff like CARP is trying to force the industry's denial of its 
inevitable demise on the music market in order to delay the inevitable ISP's 
and Microsoft ( I thin Bill Gates wants everyone to focus on his operating 
system and how thats the root of his evil when in fact its a red herring as 
he is on to other things which wil have deeper reach than an OS ) from 
becoming the new model record industry and record labels.

 i do think that being prepared for this inevitablity and being aware that 
music doesnt get heard by you being there with good intentions places any 
musician in the position of thinking beyond the basement box and thinking 
more toward a sustained survival as opposed to taking what you get thrown at 
you by chance.

& yeah The "sky" either fell a long time ago & or no one cared but you can 
still save yourself from marginalization and look more at developing a niche 
beyond what is already presnt within your own particular style of music you 
would play.

i think you can choose how yould interepret the colors of your own sky and 
also how you would define and nurture your own audience or supplement your 
income if you find happen to yourself playing music that the masses dont care 
for en masse, but you can still be IMHO relevant and off the map of the 
masses and still draw income - though not nearly as much as you would 
pleasing the masses.

but Music is a hussle even if you are doing it for just the art...

you gotta hustle and wheel and deal just as much as the big boys do and a lot 
more in the end if u aint one of the big boys or girls.

& I also think that Andy Warhol would probably see the art in all this 
insanity and say it was marvelous.

& BTW, Speaking of Webcasting:
           
AKASHRADIO4 is Live and On-Air: Devoted to Hard-Bop, Free-Jazz, 
Experimental-Classical Compositions & some very
challenging free-form/experimental perspectives from
Key Jazz Artists :ie., The West Coast's AKASHA, Michael Cooke & more.
<A HREF="http://mp3.com/stations/akashradio4">http://mp3.com/stations/akashradio4</A>
 
AKASHRADIO2 Features Mostly J-Pop and Japanese Electronica
<A HREF="http://www.mp3.com/stations/akashradio2">http://www.mp3.com/stations/akashradio2</A>

& then 1st AKASHRADIO: 
Features Loop Orinted - Electro, Dark Ambient-EBM, Darkwave, Punk, 
Free-Jazz, New Age, Noise & Progressive Electronica + 
Tons of MEGA-Spaced Out-Bliss & Chill: 
<A HREF="http://www.mp3.com/akashradio">http://www.mp3.com/stations/akashradio</A>

           Seeya on tour in your hometown very soon :)

   "Remember To Always Kill Your Expectations"
                                AKASH
            "The World's Most Erotic Band"  
             http://www.mp3.com/akashmusic

 




--part1_150.fba9be7.2a463d24_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Since we are talking about $$$ here etc, I have a question that no-one seems to be able to answer ...<BR>
<BR>
not even say Josh Wink or King Britt have an answer or perhaps they dont wana tell me...but I wonder if in fact they really know how its "all" accounted for in their music beyond any licensing or one off remix fees they get up front.<BR>
<BR>
how do you make $$$ off of dance music and get paid for your music as it climbs the so called dance charts?.<BR>
<BR>
I've never understood how you get paid royalties for dance music and performances of your music by DJ's in clubs...and who collects them and then how do they pay you ?<BR>
<BR>
Who tracks that activity and how is that covered in terms of any type of statistical sampling that they do which is perhaps like the methods used in tracking radio airplay?<BR>
<BR>
I mean it seems to me that u dont have that type of consistency or any type of organized effort or designated "group" to monitor, collect or distribute $$$ earned or&nbsp; attributed to or generated by "dance music"...am i wrong here?<BR>
<BR>
Anybody who knows the answer to this question would have my deepest attention and would satisfy a very immediate &amp; long standing curiousity i have had for the last yr &amp; most intensely in recent days.<BR>
<BR>
Anyways, re CARP, hmmmmm..<BR>
<BR>
I think selling music and CD's etc is a thing of the past and that asking for people to buy a musical commodity is more or less a thing of the past too reagrdless as to whther u are established as a "brand" or not.<BR>
<BR>
Nowadays (again IMHO) you gotta make and expect to generate money from live performances and or other things which have nothing to do with music, but are essentially where your music or "brand" (if u are so lucky to have one established of yourself)&nbsp; will sell other things ie., clothing, cars, etc or ideally establish for you access to an audience where u can sell whatever merchandise you would have to offer them.<BR>
<BR>
Seems like the trends today are you set up a licensing fee-structure (which is perhaps a screwover IMHO ) as that your work gets used and reused continually long after you have been bought out &amp; bought out way SHort of what you could ever maximize from your music...<BR>
(but again the royalty based system isnt a stellar example of money getting into the hands of artists and maybe there is more logic in getting all your money loaded to you up front)<BR>
<BR>
The Music Biz will never be as simple as being good, or bad or deserrving as much as it is about what types of perceptions you are able to either create for yourself or moreover buy and perhaps also be about how many other people you can make wanna be like you. - I always think that is key to any entertainment-music based success - u gotta make em wanna be like u.<BR>
<BR>
So IMHO the pressing issue for musicians becomes how to enagage more than just your own thoughts &amp; desires for fairness and how u get your own music heard and distributed while also generating some type of consistent or semi-reliable revenue stream(s) for yourself and how ya would act to create opportunities to do what you "need to do" for whatever reasons u would do it individually or collectively etc..<BR>
<BR>
I think that stuff like CARP is trying to force the industry's denial of its inevitable demise on the music market in order to delay the inevitable ISP's and Microsoft ( I thin Bill Gates wants everyone to focus on his operating system and how thats the root of his evil when in fact its a red herring as he is on to other things which wil have deeper reach than an OS ) from becoming the new model record industry and record labels.<BR>
<BR>
 i do think that being prepared for this inevitablity and being aware that music doesnt get heard by you being there with good intentions places any musician in the position of thinking beyond the basement box and thinking more toward a sustained survival as opposed to taking what you get thrown at you by chance.<BR>
<BR>
&amp; yeah The "sky" either fell a long time ago &amp; or no one cared but you can still save yourself from marginalization and look more at developing a niche beyond what is already presnt within your own particular style of music you would play.<BR>
<BR>
i think you can choose how yould interepret the colors of your own sky and also how you would define and nurture your own audience or supplement your income if you find happen to yourself playing music that the masses dont care for en masse, but you can still be IMHO relevant and off the map of the masses and still draw income - though not nearly as much as you would pleasing the masses.<BR>
<BR>
but Music is a hussle even if you are doing it for just the art...<BR>
<BR>
you gotta hustle and wheel and deal just as much as the big boys do and a lot more in the end if u aint one of the big boys or girls.<BR>
<BR>
&amp; I also think that Andy Warhol would probably see the art in all this insanity and say it was marvelous.<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">&amp; BTW, Speaking of Webcasting:<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>
AKASHRADIO4 is Live and On-Air: Devoted to Hard-Bop, Free-Jazz, <BR>
Experimental-Classical Compositions &amp; some very<BR>
challenging free-form/experimental perspectives from<BR>
Key Jazz Artists :ie., The West Coast's AKASHA, Michael Cooke &amp; more.<BR>
<A HREF="http://mp3.com/stations/akashradio4">http://mp3.com/stations/akashradio4</A><BR>
 <BR>
AKASHRADIO2 Features Mostly J-Pop and Japanese Electronica<BR>
<A HREF="http://www.mp3.com/stations/akashradio2">http://www.mp3.com/stations/akashradio2</A><BR>
<BR>
&amp; then 1st AKASHRADIO: <BR>
Features Loop Orinted - Electro, Dark Ambient-EBM, Darkwave, Punk, <BR>
Free-Jazz, New Age, Noise &amp; Progressive Electronica + <BR>
Tons of MEGA-Spaced Out-Bliss &amp; Chill: <BR>
<A HREF="http://www.mp3.com/akashradio">http://www.mp3.com/stations/akashradio</A><BR>
<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Seeya on tour in your hometown very soon :)<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">&nbsp;&nbsp; "Remember To Always Kill Your Expectations"<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; AKASH<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "The World's Most Erotic Band"&nbsp; <BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.mp3.com/akashmusic</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
--part1_150.fba9be7.2a463d24_boundary--

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Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 17:24:47 -0500
Subject: Re: rackmount overdrive/distortion
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the quardafuzz...is it by craig anderton/anderson?  
knowing the manufacturer would make locating the item 
much easier.

thanks for the suggestions.

-jim

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Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 17:52:12 -0400
From: David Beardsley <db@biink.com>
Subject: Re: rackmount overdrive/distortion
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: <JIMFOWLER@prodigy.net>

> the quardafuzz...is it by craig anderton/anderson?  
> knowing the manufacturer would make locating the item 
> much easier.

www.paia.com/quadrafz.htm but the web site seems to be down right now.


* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 22 18:35:39 2002
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From: "Paul Weissman" <paul@nioterra.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: RE: The RIAA are a bunch of commies
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 15:34:20 -0700
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if the RIAA, by the way, really were communists musicians might be a bit
happier.  ;) the RIAA are in fact capitalists, operating in a non-fair
market environment.

> America), I seriously have a hard time
> understanding how anyone stands to gain from
> this. I don't know what the advantage is for

who is the 'anyone' you are referring to?  it's very easy to make a case for
how the record companies can stand to gain.  more difficult to make a case
for the artists.  you make it sound like the RIAA is interested in
artists... their whole purpose is to support record company interest, NOT
artist interest.  what would you expect from them?





> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Richards [mailto:kohntarkosz@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2002 12:32 PM
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Subject: The RIAA are a bunch of commies
>
>
> I think what it comes down to is that the RIAA is
> realizing that they and the record companies they
> represent are fastly becoming obsolete, and
> they're doing everything they can do stop that
> from happening.
>
> I have one question: if a song of mine gets
> played on a webcast just once, how much will I
> get from the RIAA for that broadcast? Will it be
> substantially more or less (or the same) as what
> I stand to make if someone hearing the broadcast
> decides to buy my CD (which for the sake of
> argument, let's say can be bought from me
> directly for $10).
>
> My point is, a seriously doubt that most of the
> artists out there who might concievably get
> webcast airplay. Unless we're talking about Led
> Zeppelin or The Who (who can played like 10 times
> a day, everday on each classic rock station in
> America), I seriously have a hard time
> understanding how anyone stands to gain from
> this. I don't know what the advantage is for
> getting a check for 7 cents because a college
> station in Alberta Canada or New Jersey or
> wherever played one of my songs at 4:00 am. But I
> DO know the advantage, if, say, 10 people who
> hear that broadcast (and let's just for the sake
> of argument say 8 of them are listening to the
> webcast), decide they like what they hear and
> follow up and actually buy my CD. If CARP ends up
> pushing all non-commerical broadcasting off the
> web, I think we end up losing in the wrong run.
>
>
> =====
> May you never thirst!
> The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris
>
> "What do you get when you give a yo-yo to a flock of
> flamingos?"-James Earl Jones
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
> http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 22 18:45:00 2002
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From: "Paul Weissman" <paul@nioterra.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: RE: CARP Passed - This sucks!
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 15:44:26 -0700
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but how can you guarantee that music being played on your internet radio
station ISN'T affiliated with BMI/ASCAP?

in order to to run a station like this you'd have to accept mp3s/cds from
artists who want you to play their music.  what if some people (maybe even
the record companies themselves) decide to pass you material that is
actually covered by BMI/ASCAP?  all they have to do is monitor your station,
wait for a song of theirs to come up and all of a sudden you're in
litigation.

i have no idea if this is actually how the law works, but it's a thought.

paul



> -----Original Message-----
> From: matt davignon [mailto:mattdavignon@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2002 11:27 AM
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Subject: re: CARP Passed - This sucks!
>
>
> Now here's a question:
>
> Can a streaming radio station exist by playing only songs of consenting
> artists and labels who are not affiliated with BMI/ASCAP?
>
> There are enough good non-major-label artists who actually want
> their music
> to be heard to fill a huge number of stations in any genre, and
> I'd like to
> think there's a large enough audience that would be interested in hearing
> stuff that they don't already hear on the radio.
>
> I think the reason that the major labels made the effort to
> squash internet
> radio is that they feared they would no longer have control of all the
> channels necessary to convince John Q. Average-American that the bands
> marketed by them are the only ones worth hearing. That's why they didn't
> make effort to charge the same rate to broadcast radio stations. 95% of
> broadcast radio stations exclusively play major-label material.
>
> Anyway, it would be nice if we could turn this into a case of the majors
> shooting themselves in the foot. Wouldn't it be great if we said,
> "Ok, well
> since you're being such an asshole about it, we'll only play music by
> artists/labels who are in it for the art and community from now on."
>
> Matt
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 22 18:45:07 2002
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Subject: RE: CARP Passed - This sucks!
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> I (the sole owner of the rights on my compositions) want to put some of MY
> music (for free) on MY internet site, then I'll have to pay to
> the SIAE (the
> Italian rights organization) so that they collect the money and
> then pay ME,

wow!  that's crazy!

what happens if you put your music up on a web site that's located in
another country?  are you still subject to SIAE payments?

how anyone hopes to geographically carve up the internet is beyond me...


paul




> -----Original Message-----
> From: Luigi Meloni [mailto:Luigimeloni74@libero.it]
> Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2002 12:21 PM
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Subject: Re: CARP Passed - This sucks!
>
>
> Another question. I am an Italian artist. I'm not affiliated
> (obviously) to
> BMI/ASCAP,  but have my rights protected by I.M.R.O. (the Irish rights
> organization). My label has currently set up a radio station under mp3.com
> or emusic.com  (that are American), that transmits only our music. What is
> our position regarding this law? Do we have to pay RIAA for
> something? Does
> this all have a sense to anyone of you?
>
> We too in Italy have something similar to the CARP. The funny
> thing is that
> in Italy the situation is even more complex. To explain it in few
> words, if
> I (the sole owner of the rights on my compositions) want to put some of MY
> music (for free) on MY internet site, then I'll have to pay to
> the SIAE (the
> Italian rights organization) so that they collect the money and
> then pay ME,
> the artist,  the sum minus the 40% of what I had to pay (the 40 %
> remains to
> the SIAE for the expenses of collecting my money and giving it back to
> me...). The funny thing is that I'm not affiliated to SIAE in any
> way, since
> I'm affiliate to the IMRO, but I'll have to pay the same. If my
> compositions
> were not copyrighted I would have to pay the same,  and the 100% of the
> money would go to SIAE (and we are talking of quite some money).
>
> Peace
> Luigi
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "matt davignon" <mattdavignon@hotmail.com>
> To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2002 8:26 PM
> Subject: re: CARP Passed - This sucks!
>
>
> > Now here's a question:
> >
> > Can a streaming radio station exist by playing only songs of consenting
> > artists and labels who are not affiliated with BMI/ASCAP?
> >
> > There are enough good non-major-label artists who actually want their
> music
> > to be heard to fill a huge number of stations in any genre, and I'd like
> to
> > think there's a large enough audience that would be interested
> in hearing
> > stuff that they don't already hear on the radio.
> >
> > I think the reason that the major labels made the effort to squash
> internet
> > radio is that they feared they would no longer have control of all the
> > channels necessary to convince John Q. Average-American that the bands
> > marketed by them are the only ones worth hearing. That's why they didn't
> > make effort to charge the same rate to broadcast radio stations. 95% of
> > broadcast radio stations exclusively play major-label material.
> >
> > Anyway, it would be nice if we could turn this into a case of the majors
> > shooting themselves in the foot. Wouldn't it be great if we said, "Ok,
> well
> > since you're being such an asshole about it, we'll only play music by
> > artists/labels who are in it for the art and community from now on."
> >
> > Matt
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
> >
>
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 22 19:25:32 2002
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=windows-1251" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META content="MSHTML 5.00.3105.105" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Hi,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I installed my new Loop4 software&nbsp;two days ago but I've got a problem. When&nbsp;I powered&nbsp;the EDP up, while holding the parameters button, the "Loop 4" never scrolled across. I waited for about 2 minutes. I emailed Shane at Gibson but have not received a response yet.&nbsp;&nbsp;I reinstalled the Loop3&nbsp;but&nbsp;now it doesn't&nbsp;work either. Any suggestions?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Gary</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 22 19:51:00 2002
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Subject: Re: CARP passed- this sucks.
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valerie,

>You're probably right. You definitely would know more about this than I
>would. I just wish that the choice (if there is one) wasn't between two
>evils. I hold out the hope that the internet will play a part in changing
>the current system for the better.
with my occasionally cynical side showing, i can be afraid of what role the 
internet might have in increasing the already well-established imbalances 
regarding 'artist compensation' vs. etc etc etc.....

>PS, you do great work. I've loved it since "Secrets of the Beehive"
thanks!
best,
dt / s-c

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 22 20:05:34 2002
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matt,

>Now here's a question:
>Can a streaming radio station exist by playing only songs of consenting
>artists and labels who are not affiliated with BMI/ASCAP?
i've no idea.....
but, uhhh..... if you're writing & recording music that's being released in 
some (any) fashion, why *wouldn't* you join BMI/ASCAP or an alternative 
collection agency, anyways?


>There are enough good non-major-label artists who actually want their music
>to be heard to fill a huge number of stations in any genre,
a truism, i agree..... though i'd venture to guess that most of 'em are not 
primarily interested in either 'art' or 'community'.....
 
>and I'd like
>to 
>think there's a large enough audience that would be interested in hearing
>stuff that they don't already hear on the radio.
>I think the reason that the major labels made the effort to squash internet
>radio is that they feared they would no longer have control of all the
>channels necessary to convince John Q. Average-American that the bands
>marketed by them are the only ones worth hearing. 
.....but, just to separate subjects a bit, here:
that has nothing whatsoever to do with a composer/publisher registering their 
works w/BMI/ASCAP/etc for collection of composing/publishing residuals 
payable and due to the respective composer & publisher.
anyone can join these organisations, for a smallish fee; a major label deal 
is not required.

best,
dt / s-c

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Subject: Re: CARP Passed - This sucks!
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 01:21:17 +0100
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Weissman" <paul@nioterra.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2002 23:44 PM
Subject: RE: CARP Passed - This sucks!


>
> but how can you guarantee that music being played on your internet radio
> station ISN'T affiliated with BMI/ASCAP?
>
> in order to to run a station like this you'd have to accept mp3s/cds from
> artists who want you to play their music.  what if some people (maybe even
> the record companies themselves) decide to pass you material that is
> actually covered by BMI/ASCAP?  all they have to do is monitor your
station,
> wait for a song of theirs to come up and all of a sudden you're in
> litigation.
>
> i have no idea if this is actually how the law works, but it's a thought.

I think not, if you had as part of your agreement with people uploading that
the material wasn't subject to processing by such organizations.  Think
about how Eno lets public TV / BBC use his material.  It's registered, but
there's an agreement for use.  That's all there needs to be.
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: matt davignon [mailto:mattdavignon@hotmail.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2002 11:27 AM
> > To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> > Subject: re: CARP Passed - This sucks!
> >
> >
> > Now here's a question:
> >
> > Can a streaming radio station exist by playing only songs of consenting
> > artists and labels who are not affiliated with BMI/ASCAP?
> >
> > There are enough good non-major-label artists who actually want
> > their music
> > to be heard to fill a huge number of stations in any genre, and
> > I'd like to
> > think there's a large enough audience that would be interested in
hearing
> > stuff that they don't already hear on the radio.
> >
> > I think the reason that the major labels made the effort to
> > squash internet
> > radio is that they feared they would no longer have control of all the
> > channels necessary to convince John Q. Average-American that the bands
> > marketed by them are the only ones worth hearing. That's why they didn't
> > make effort to charge the same rate to broadcast radio stations. 95% of
> > broadcast radio stations exclusively play major-label material.
> >
> > Anyway, it would be nice if we could turn this into a case of the majors
> > shooting themselves in the foot. Wouldn't it be great if we said,
> > "Ok, well
> > since you're being such an asshole about it, we'll only play music by
> > artists/labels who are in it for the art and community from now on."
> >
> > Matt
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
> >
> >
>
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 22 20:24:27 2002
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Subject: Re: The RIAA are a bunch of commies
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chris,

>I think what it comes down to is that the RIAA is
>realizing that they and the record companies they
>represent are fastly becoming obsolete, and
>they're doing everything they can do stop that
>from happening.
but the major record companies still show phenomenal profits, don't they?

>I have one question: if a song of mine gets
>played on a webcast just once, how much will I
>get from the RIAA for that broadcast?
from what i read, you get .07 cents (that's 7/10th of one american cent) per 
*listener*, unless, of course, i've misunderstood.

>Will it be
>substantially more or less (or the same) as what
>I stand to make if someone hearing the broadcast
>decides to buy my CD (which for the sake of
>argument, let's say can be bought from me
>directly for $10). 
in a theory which is borne out by the current state of business affairs in 
the music industry, you would be capable of making much more money via the 
composerhood & publishing of a given recorded track than via selling the 
material disc..... by sheer dint of the velocity & speed of the internet vs. 
the velocity/speed of snail-mail & carbon mat'ls, i shld think.
but: that's *certainly* the way it is in the current record-company-as-bank 
(ie, 'pseudo-patron') situation:
the composers & publishers make the most money, for the longest period of 
time, regardless of who-the-artist-is.


>My point is, a seriously doubt that most of the
>artists out there who might concievably get
>webcast airplay. Unless we're talking about Led
>Zeppelin or The Who (who can played like 10 times
>a day, everday on each classic rock station in
>America), I seriously have a hard time
>understanding how anyone stands to gain from
>this. I don't know what the advantage is for
>getting a check for 7 cents 
(i believe they said .07 cents, not 7 cents).

>because a college
>station in Alberta Canada or New Jersey or
>wherever played one of my songs at 4:00 am. 
ah, but if those stations are correctly 'reporting' their playlists, then 
you'd be wrong.

>But I
>DO know the advantage, if, say, 10 people who
>hear that broadcast (and let's just for the sake
>of argument say 8 of them are listening to the
>webcast), decide they like what they hear and
>follow up and actually buy my CD. 
the name of your song was not announced, or it was announced..... one hour 
after it was played inna string of 12 other artists' songs, but:
you got paid, anyway.

>If CARP ends up
>pushing all non-commerical broadcasting off the
>web, I think we end up losing in the wrong run. 
maybe.
all's i know is:
i attempt to get paid for what i do, when it's appropriate (like when the 
'non-commercial' website is profitable to *somebody*)..... so that i can 
continue doing it.
best,
dt / s-c

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 22 20:27:16 2002
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Subject: Re: CARP Passed - This sucks!
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AKASHMUSIC@aol.com writes:

>not even say Josh Wink or King Britt have an answer or perhaps they dont
>wana 
>tell me...but I wonder if in fact they really know how its "all" accounted
>for in their music beyond any licensing or one off remix fees they get
>up 
>front.
>how do you make $$$ off of dance music and get paid for your music as it
>climbs the so called dance charts?.

not being disingenuous, here:
you could find and employ a good entertainment industry lawyer --- one whom 
you understand, is recommended to you, and seems trustworthy.
best,
dt / s-c

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 22 20:44:10 2002
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In a message dated 6/21/2002 3:34:01 PM Mountain Standard Time, 
ghunicycle@yahoo.com writes:


> Beyond that, the other clientelle is often even more rude then the
> employees. How can you demo a piece of studio-quality gear when you
> have Eddie Van Kornhead blasting a Marshall stack 10 feet away? How
> long does it take to demo something? The last time I went to an LMS, I
> was there for half an hour looking around and a young man sat there
> playing a high powered halfstack the entire time (he was there before I
> came in, and was still there when I left...) WITHOUT CHANGING THE
> SETTINGS ON EITHER THE AMP OR THE GUITAR! Literally over an hour with
> one tone. It would have been pretty hard to try something out that
> day...
> 

It's like going to a clothing store and wearing a new shirt and pair of socks 
for a couple of hours before you know weather or not you want to buy it...

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Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 6/21/2002 3:34:01 PM Mountain Standard Time, ghunicycle@yahoo.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Beyond that, the other clientelle is often even more rude then the<BR>
employees. How can you demo a piece of studio-quality gear when you<BR>
have Eddie Van Kornhead blasting a Marshall stack 10 feet away? How<BR>
long does it take to demo something? The last time I went to an LMS, I<BR>
was there for half an hour looking around and a young man sat there<BR>
playing a high powered halfstack the entire time (he was there before I<BR>
came in, and was still there when I left...) WITHOUT CHANGING THE<BR>
SETTINGS ON EITHER THE AMP OR THE GUITAR! Literally over an hour with<BR>
one tone. It would have been pretty hard to try something out that<BR>
day...<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
It's like going to a clothing store and wearing a new shirt and pair of socks for a couple of hours before you know weather or not you want to buy it...</FONT></HTML>

--part1_e4.2981d8b3.2a467376_boundary--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 22 20:59:38 2002
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Subject: Re: CARP Passed - This sucks!
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 01:58:19 +0100
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----- Original Message -----
From: <Hedewa7@aol.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2002 01:25 AM
Subject: Re: CARP Passed - This sucks!


> AKASHMUSIC@aol.com writes:
>
> >not even say Josh Wink or King Britt have an answer or perhaps they dont
> >wana
> >tell me...but I wonder if in fact they really know how its "all"
accounted
> >for in their music beyond any licensing or one off remix fees they get
> >up
> >front.
> >how do you make $$$ off of dance music and get paid for your music as it
> >climbs the so called dance charts?.
>
> not being disingenuous, here:
> you could find and employ a good entertainment industry lawyer --- one
whom
> you understand, is recommended to you, and seems trustworthy.

Sounds like a conflict in terms! :)  Actually part of this struggle with the
RIAA also has to do with keeping lawyers' greasy fingers from fouling the
Internet up TOO much.  And who besides a medium-large music company has the
money for such services?

Stephen P. Goodman
EarthLight Productions
*
http://www.earthlight.net/Studios - The Free Loop of the Week!
http://www.earthlight.net/Gallery_Front.html - Cartoons!
http://www.earthlight.net/HiddenTrack.html - More Cartoons!

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 22 21:04:05 2002
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----- Original Message -----
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Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2002 01:22 AM
Subject: Re: The RIAA are a bunch of commies


<snip>

> >If CARP ends up
> >pushing all non-commerical broadcasting off the
> >web, I think we end up losing in the wrong run.
> maybe.

Maybe?  Not to be too difficult Senor Torn, but as you're already fairly
embedded in the music industry and enjoying its relative benefits of
exposure and other work being done on your behalf - as opposed to a most
artists - please remember that we have all been given a canvas to work
upon - broadcasting, which has been under a music biz stranglehold until
now - via the Internet.  Are you saying that taking this away from us could
have a positive benefit for us?  Please elaborate (and I say this with the
most sincere interest in what you have to say).

Stephen P. Goodman
EarthLight Productions
*
http://www.earthlight.net/Studios - The Free Loop of the Week!
http://www.earthlight.net/Gallery_Front.html - Cartoons!
http://www.earthlight.net/HiddenTrack.html - More Cartoons!

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 22 21:17:41 2002
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Subject: Re: CARP Passed - This sucks!
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 01:09:13 GMT
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IANAL, but....

I suspect that if a station only played submissions and insisted that such 
submissions came with a release of rights with respect to Internet 
broadcast, then that station would presumably be in the clear with respect 
to royalties. I don't know whether the submission itself could be 
considered an agreement to those terms, but it probably ought to be 
possible to set things up that way.

So, assuming this passed muster with an entertainment lawyer, then I 
could envisage a system whereby stations register themselves as being 
interested only in broadcast-royalty free music and thereby gain access to 
a library of musician/small-label submitted material. I could even 
envisage terms whereby the stations need to provide playlists such that 
listeners can link back to where they could purchase the music.

What the webcasting royalties shut down then would be the all Britney 
Spears, all the time station. Or that station needs to make enough in 
advertising revenue to cover it's royalty costs. True, this means that I'll 
probably never get to hear a radio station segue from Britney Spears into 
Ted Killian's "Leaving Medford" but that's a loss I think I can live with.

Mark

on 6/22/02 3:44 PM, Paul Weissman at paul@nioterra.com wrote:

> but how can you guarantee that music being played on your internet 
radio
> station ISN'T affiliated with BMI/ASCAP?
> 
> in order to to run a station like this you'd have to accept mp3s/cds from
> artists who want you to play their music.  what if some people (maybe 
even
> the record companies themselves) decide to pass you material that is
> actually covered by BMI/ASCAP?  all they have to do is monitor your 
station,
> wait for a song of theirs to come up and all of a sudden you're in
> litigation.
> 
> i have no idea if this is actually how the law works, but it's a thought.


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 22 21:59:40 2002
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Subject: FS: 2 Vortexen, 2 RDS units
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ok, here's a rundown ...

Lexicon Vortex #1: this one is perfect. fully functional with footswitch, 2 
power supplies, "Lexicon" and footswitch stickers. $150

Lexicon Vortex #2: this one has a wonky "preset" encoder (it will only let you 
select half of the presets). aside from that, in good shape with footswitch, 2 
power supplies, "Lexicon" and footswitch stickers. $100

Digitech RDS 7.6: minor rack rash. fully functional. no documentation. i have 
modified it (via the information on loopers-delight.com) for 30-second-plus 
long lo-fi loops and 99 percent feedback. accepts triggers for delay start (use 
that for tempo sync) and CV for LFO speed and some other things. $150

Digitech RDS-8000: less rack rash than above unit. no documentation. IEC power 
cable. also tweaked as above unit. features the same compliment of CV/trigger 
inputs as the RDS 7.6. dry signal does not pass (it was that way when i got it 
from Daddy's Used Gear By Mail), but i've always fed it from an aux send so 
it's never mattered to me.

The RDS-8000 sounds cleaner with long loops because it's anti-aliasing filters 
follow the actual sample rate whereas on the 7.6 the anti-aliasing filters 
track the _expected_ sample rate. LoFi loopers rejoice in the power of the RDS 
7.6.

i apologise if crossposting this has polluted anyone's mailboxes needlessly. 
i'm sending to Analogue Heaven and the Synthesizers.com list because ALL these 
FX interface to modular synths through CV/trigger.

if you'd like pictures email me and i'll get you the URL for the pics tonight. 
it'll most likely be in http://www.suitandtieguy.com/forsale though. i just 
can't interface my camera with my powerbook or i'd do it here at work.

Eric Williamson
www.suitandtieguy.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 22 22:08:15 2002
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SG and DT were saying:

> > >If CARP ends up
> > >pushing all non-commerical broadcasting off the
> > >web, I think we end up losing in the wrong run.
> > maybe.
> 
> Maybe?  Not to be too difficult Senor Torn, but as you're already fairly
> embedded in the music industry and enjoying its relative benefits of
> exposure and other work being done on your behalf - 

I have to interject here, and say that the comment about work being done
"on [his] behalf" is a fairly substantial disservice to David, who is
one of the most jaw-droppingly proactive and hard-working people I've
ever known.  I think there's a bit of an implication in the comment
above that David's all set, and just sort of sits around whilst the
mechanics of "the music industry" spin automatically on his behalf to
promote and parlay opportunities for him... which couldn't be further
from the truth.

> as opposed to a most artists - 

Here again, this potentially implies that David has taken a different
route than most other *working professionals*, which from what I know of
his career is absolutely not the case.  We're talking about someone
who's been getting in the proverbial (and often literal) van for about
thirty years, playing out, hitting the road, diversifying his skills and
sources of income, and building a name for himself through DECADES of
very hard work - which continues to this very day.  

I've never met a single successful working pro who doesn't work their
ass off on a regular basis.  By the same token, I have never met a
single successful working pro who subsists strictly off of free mp3
downloads, royalties from online streams, or web site traffic.

This is very important stuff to think about when it comes to discussing
the web as a source of income for artists, and where that figures into
the much larger overall equation of a serious professional's livelihood.

With that in mind, here's David's comment (which he wrote after his
"maybe" remark) which was snipped out of Stephen's reply, and which I
think does much to illuminate where he's coming from:

> all's i know is:
> i attempt to get paid for what i do, 
> when it's appropriate (like when the 
> 'non-commercial' website is profitable 
> to *somebody*)..... so that i can 
> continue doing it.

So, without wanting to speak for David, MY OWN interpretation of his
comments here (as well as his reply to Valerie, vis a vis the
difficulties of securing mechanical royalties for sales of tangible
product) would go something like this:

Increasing one's visibility is good.  Making the listening public aware
of what you're doing is important.  It's alsp important that outlets for
disseminating people's work are able to function in such a way that
they're able to stay afloat financially while continuing to make music
available to listeners.  I'm not in favor of the CARP's prohibitively
high rate.

But... as I look at the slightly bigger picture...

...as online music comes of age, and as people start to explore the
long-term ramifications of free information, free music, intellectual
copyright, etc. etc., it's important to try and clarify - in one's own
mind, at least - where the line gets drawn between free promotion and
tangible compensation for services rendered.

In other words, I don't support oppressively high broadcast royalty
rates for online radio.  But I do support the idea that the artists who
are responsible for creating that content in the first place should be
able to benefit from the dissemination of their work (which is creating
the reason for the online radio station's existence in the first place)
- not just as a promotional tool, but in terms of payment via publishing
royalties for material that's broadcast in the first place.

The tricky part is that, as Kim pointed out the other day, almost ANY
rate is going to be too high for a lot of online stations.  

Exposure and visibility is an important thing... but if it comes at the
expense of sacrificing your sources of potential income, then what sort
of victory is it, ultimately?

No definitive answers here, at least not from me.  But some things worth
thinking about, I do believe...

--Andre LaFosse
The Echoplex Analysis Pages:
http://www.altruistmusic.com/EDP

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 22 22:43:02 2002
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In a message dated 6/22/2002 8:26:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
Hedewa7@aol.com writes:


> not being disingenuous, here:
> 
Good advice is never disingenuous or unwelcome as it is rather quite 
appreciated here.

We are set to meet w/an entertainment lawyer for lunch on monday who comes 
highly reccomened from some folks in here the Philly HipHop community.

Thanks for your response.
  
    "Remember To Always Kill Your Expectations"
                                JP/AKASH
            "The World's Most Erotic Band"  
             http://www.mp3.com/akashmusic







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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 6/22/2002 8:26:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Hedewa7@aol.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">not being disingenuous, here:<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Good advice is never disingenuous or unwelcome as it is rather quite appreciated here.<BR>
<BR>
We are set to meet w/an entertainment lawyer for lunch on monday who comes highly reccomened from some folks in here the Philly HipHop community.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks for your response.</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">&nbsp; <BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "Remember To Always Kill Your Expectations"<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; JP/AKASH<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "The World's Most Erotic Band"&nbsp; <BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.mp3.com/akashmusic</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
--part1_d0.29287607.2a468f45_boundary--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 22 23:43:24 2002
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Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 20:42:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Richards <kohntarkosz@yahoo.com>
Subject: IF the RIAA aren't commies, then what are they?
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<<if the RIAA, by the way, really were communists

  musicians might be a bit happier.  ;) the RIAA
are in fact capitalists, operating in a non-fair
market environment.>>

I think you missed the point of what I meant when
they called the RIAA commies. Would you prefer I
had called them fascists?! 

=====
May you never thirst!
The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris

"What do you get when you give a yo-yo to a flock of flamingos?"-James Earl Jones

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 22 23:46:37 2002
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From: "Paul Weissman" <paul@nioterra.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: RE: CARP Passed - This sucks!
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 20:46:03 -0700
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: mark_hamburg@baymoon.com [mailto:mark_hamburg@baymoon.com]
> Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2002 6:09 PM
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Subject: Re: CARP Passed - This sucks!
>
> So, assuming this passed muster with an entertainment lawyer, then I

boy i wish i had one of those around sometimes... it would be great to
bounce our questions off someone who actually knew the legal implications of
all this stuff...

> could envisage a system whereby stations register themselves as being
> interested only in broadcast-royalty free music and thereby gain
> access to
> a library of musician/small-label submitted material. I could even
> envisage terms whereby the stations need to provide playlists such that
> listeners can link back to where they could purchase the music.

ok, first off... this means that EVERYTHING that has already been registered
with ASCAP/BMI is unplayable.

second, this creates a major catch-22 for playing music on internet radio.
if you submit your song to any internet radio station for play you cannot
register it with ASCAP/BMI, which means you lose out on what is currently a
staple of income for most authors.  in addition, if you decide some time
after submitting your work to register with ASCAP/BMI and forget to tell the
radio station, you put that radio station in jeopardy of a law suit.  which
would mean the artist would have to sign a legal agreement with the station
to not license your music without notifying them... blah blah.

of course someone could start a new licensing company that would make these
things happen...

ever get the feeling that the record industry needs a complete makeover?
and wouldn't it be cool if it was led by artists?  hahaha...

getting a bit silly there, better calm down.  ;)

but maybe you're right, if you could set up a station to play only indie
music, it would be really cool.  of course, someone would have to sort
through all the crap to find the good stuff.  hmmm... interesting things to
think about.


paul





>
> What the webcasting royalties shut down then would be the all Britney
> Spears, all the time station. Or that station needs to make enough in
> advertising revenue to cover it's royalty costs. True, this means
> that I'll
> probably never get to hear a radio station segue from Britney Spears into
> Ted Killian's "Leaving Medford" but that's a loss I think I can live with.
>
> Mark
>
> on 6/22/02 3:44 PM, Paul Weissman at paul@nioterra.com wrote:
>
> > but how can you guarantee that music being played on your internet
> radio
> > station ISN'T affiliated with BMI/ASCAP?
> >
> > in order to to run a station like this you'd have to accept
> mp3s/cds from
> > artists who want you to play their music.  what if some people (maybe
> even
> > the record companies themselves) decide to pass you material that is
> > actually covered by BMI/ASCAP?  all they have to do is monitor your
> station,
> > wait for a song of theirs to come up and all of a sudden you're in
> > litigation.
> >
> > i have no idea if this is actually how the law works, but it's
> a thought.
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 22 23:50:33 2002
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Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 20:49:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Richards <kohntarkosz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Still talking about the RIAA
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<<who is the 'anyone' you are referring to?  it's

  very easy to make a case for how the record
companies can stand to gain.>>

Yeah, like record companies don't make enough
money as it is. Besides, even if webcasting were
to put Clive Davis and David Geffen in the poor
house, it wouldn't break my heart.  

<<  more difficult to make a case for the
artists.  you make it sound like the RIAA is
interested in
artists...>>

When the hell did I say that?! You're trying to
make me out to be some kind of Nazi sympathizer,
or what? 

<< their whole purpose is to support record
company interest, NOT artist interest. >>

No kidding, Columbo!! We already know that!!! But
if you listen to their BS rhetoric, they make it
sound like they're doing this "for the artists".
That was my point. The artists DON'T gain
anything from CARP or any of the other BS tactics
the RIAA have been relying on lately. Let's face,
does anyone seriously think Sony or Atlantic or
any of those other outfits are gonna go under
anytime soon, just because somebody played one of
their records over the internet? 

=====
May you never thirst!
The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris

"What do you get when you give a yo-yo to a flock of flamingos?"-James Earl Jones

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 23 00:40:56 2002
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Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 21:39:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bret <echoplex@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Loop 4 Problem
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Gary,
I have to ask the obvious, were you careful to orient each of the
Eproms in the right direction, sure you put the even Eprom in the even
socket, and odd in the odd, and that no legs of the eproms were bent or
missed the socket?
These would be the most likely causes of malfuntion.
The little 'notch' on one end of the eprom should face away from the
transformer side of the edp (have the notch to your left as you are
facing the edp), the even eprom is towards the back of the edp, the odd
eprom is towards the front of the epd.
I hope that is clear.  A picture would be better

bret
--- Gary Rouzer <gz3739@earthlink.net> wrote:

<HR>
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=windows-1251"
http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META content="MSHTML 5.00.3105.105" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Hi,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I installed my new Loop4 software&nbsp;two days ago but I've got a
problem. When&nbsp;I powered&nbsp;the EDP up, while holding the
parameters button, the "Loop 4" never scrolled across. I waited for
about 2 minutes. I emailed Shane at Gibson but have not received a
response yet.&nbsp;&nbsp;I reinstalled the Loop3&nbsp;but&nbsp;now it
doesn't&nbsp;work either. Any suggestions?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Gary</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 23 00:51:58 2002
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Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 21:46:50 -0700
From: Richard Zvonar <zvonar@zvonar.com>
Subject: Re: CARP Passed - This sucks!
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At 8:03 PM -0400 6/22/02, Hedewa7@aol.com wrote:

>anyone can join [BMI/ASCAP/etc], for a smallish fee; a major label deal
>is not required.

BMI membership is free for composers and $150.00 for publishers.
-- 

______________________________________________________________
Richard Zvonar, PhD
(818) 788-2202
http://www.zvonar.com
http://RZCybernetics.com
http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz

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Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 21:48:19 -0700
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Subject: Re: The RIAA are a bunch of commies
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At 8:22 PM -0400 6/22/02, Hedewa7@aol.com wrote:

>from what i read, you get .07 cents (that's 7/10th of one american cent)

Actually 7/100ths.



-- 

______________________________________________________________
Richard Zvonar, PhD
(818) 788-2202
http://www.zvonar.com
http://RZCybernetics.com
http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 23 01:02:01 2002
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Subject: Re: CARP Passed - This sucks!
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At 1:09 AM +0000 6/23/02, mark_hamburg@baymoon.com wrote:

>I suspect that if a station only played submissions and insisted that such
>submissions came with a release of rights with respect to Internet
>broadcast, then that station would presumably be in the clear with respect
>to royalties. I don't know whether the submission itself could be
>considered an agreement to those terms, but it probably ought to be
>possible to set things up that way.

I envision an organization that could act as a clearing house for 
such submissions. Webcasters and recording artists could register 
with such an org and thereby bypass the RIAA provisions.
-- 

______________________________________________________________
Richard Zvonar, PhD
(818) 788-2202
http://www.zvonar.com
http://RZCybernetics.com
http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 23 02:25:31 2002
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To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: EDP Won't Play live reverse (using the PMC-10) in LoopIV
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 23:23:08 -0700
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I tried out some of the PMC patches on the new OS.  I have found loss of
functionality on a cool setting and am unsure how to achieve the effect.  I
documented this in January--it's in the archives as
http://www.loopers-delight.com/LDarchive/200201/msg00699.html
but here's the text--
Here's an approach to the live reverse thing that I programmed tonight--see
if this is new to anybody but me.
I'm using the PMC-10 MIDI pedal to control the Echoplex, and I have been
using a momentary setting with string A double multiplying and string B
double recording (I pretty much have quantize on all the time), thus working
as a "set the loop" switch.  This works well for changing the time
signature--swell for turning 4 into 3, 8 into 7, bla bla bla--
I also have a pedal setting for "reverse now"--again something pretty doable
with quantize off and insert on rev, but I don't have mine set up that way,
so it's a parameter punch, then undo.
Well, I combined them, and then ran the feedback to 0.  Now, if I have a
blank loop, I can play something and have it play back reversed one time (or
more, with feedback higher, but I find it more effective if it doesn't
repeat--kinda like Andre's Loopfeste opener).  Again, for those of you with
the right MIDI pedal, that's:
Multiply on string A (when you press down), and record, parameter, undo
(when you release).  This assumes you have quantize off.

Now, I have only had the new OS for a few hours--but the desired effect is,
create a one time playback (in reverse) of new material.  This worked
before, but now it turns off the loop.  I have tried some different things,
but since live reverse is (and has been) listed as one of the features of
the EDP, perhaps someone can suggest a good way to do this with the new OS.
Here is the request, one more time--

Set the size of the loop, and play back the material, in reverse, one time.

Thanks in advance for any help

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 23 02:38:17 2002
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Subject: RE: Still talking about the RIAA (Chris Richards is a Nazi Sympathizer!)
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 23:37:21 -0700
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> No kidding, Columbo!! We already know that!!! But
> if you listen to their BS rhetoric, they make it
> sound like they're doing this "for the artists".
> That was my point. The artists DON'T gain

ahh, the glories of typed conversation...  apparently i misread into your
post.

what i was responding to was the general sentiment that i often hear, that
goes something like: "how can the RIAA/big5/whoever DO this to US?  i mean,
don't they know they're hurting artists!?!?  they're super mean!"

like they care, right?  they're just looking out for themselves in whatever,
aggressive and backhanded way they can.  the big wake up is that artists
should be doing this too!  but, of course, big companies are organized and
very interested in the bottom line, and artists... in general... aren't
either of those things.  our system supports organized entities, yeah?  so
the big question SHOULD be, how do artists get themselves properly set up to
look out for themselves?  or... will it ever happen?










> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Richards [mailto:kohntarkosz@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2002 8:49 PM
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Subject: Still talking about the RIAA
>
>
> <<who is the 'anyone' you are referring to?  it's
>
>   very easy to make a case for how the record
> companies can stand to gain.>>
> > Yeah, like record companies don't make enough
> money as it is. Besides, even if webcasting were
> to put Clive Davis and David Geffen in the poor
> house, it wouldn't break my heart.
>
> <<  more difficult to make a case for the
> artists.  you make it sound like the RIAA is
> interested in
> artists...>>
>
> When the hell did I say that?! You're trying to
> make me out to be some kind of Nazi sympathizer,
> or what?
>
> << their whole purpose is to support record
> company interest, NOT artist interest. >>
>
> No kidding, Columbo!! We already know that!!! But
> if you listen to their BS rhetoric, they make it
> sound like they're doing this "for the artists".
> That was my point. The artists DON'T gain
> anything from CARP or any of the other BS tactics
> the RIAA have been relying on lately. Let's face,
> does anyone seriously think Sony or Atlantic or
> any of those other outfits are gonna go under
> anytime soon, just because somebody played one of
> their records over the internet?
>
> =====
> May you never thirst!
> The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris
>
> "What do you get when you give a yo-yo to a flock of
> flamingos?"-James Earl Jones
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
> http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 23 02:54:53 2002
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Subject: Re: CARP Passed - This sucks!
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Mark,

In a message dated 6/22/02 6:16:31 PM, mark_hamburg@baymoon.com writes:

>this means that I'll probably never get to hear a radio station segue 
>from Britney Spears into Ted Killian's "Leaving Medford" but that's 
>a loss I think I can live with.

Heh, heh, heh, heh. Hypoththetically speaking (LOL) if this were ever 
to happen . . . I think said station would self-destruct instantly and 
all listener's computers spontaneously combust. Thanks for the 
sidways plug . . . I think. 

On the semi-serious side, I'm a member of ASCAP. As someone 
else said here recently, it costs next to nothing to join and anybody 
can do it (hey they can't be too picky if they let me in anyway). 

Though I've yet to realize any particular tangible benefit from this 
association . . .  that doesn't mean that it'll never happen. This whole 
CARP/RIAA thing, however, has me frustrated, perplexed and a little 
ticked off. I've had a little radio play and some internet radio play 
this year for and fully expect that I will NEVER even see as much 
as 0.07¢ outta this whole flippin' deal.  

Glad I have a day job . . . 

Ted Killian

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 23 03:08:34 2002
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To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: EDP Won't Play live reverse (using the PMC-10) in LoopIV
References: <000001c21a7e$759b2ae0$17d6f343@gary>
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Hi Gary,

Quick thoughts, as yet unverified by me:

-- What about using DirectMIDI commands for SUS-Unrounded Multiply and
Reverse?  It seems to me that the Multiply on String A - Record on
String B thing is basically doing an Unrounded Multiply, which is
available as a DirectMIDI command in LoopIV.  What if you did the SUS
version of that on string A, and then DirectMIDI for Reverse on String
B?  (Doing Reverse via DirectMIDI would save you the trouble of having
to program the Parameter thing as well).

There's also a "snipplets" trick in there that involves a very similar
sort of move, except that it's triggered by copying the loop via a
CNF-switchquant variation.  It's one of Andy Butler's brainchildren, as
I recall...  It should be in the manual, or Andy might be able to elaborate...

How are you liking LoopIV aside from your current issues?

--Andre

Gary Lehmann wrote:
> 
> I tried out some of the PMC patches on the new OS.  I have found loss of
> functionality on a cool setting and am unsure how to achieve the effect.  I
> documented this in January--it's in the archives as
> http://www.loopers-delight.com/LDarchive/200201/msg00699.html
> but here's the text--
> Here's an approach to the live reverse thing that I programmed tonight--see
> if this is new to anybody but me.
> I'm using the PMC-10 MIDI pedal to control the Echoplex, and I have been
> using a momentary setting with string A double multiplying and string B
> double recording (I pretty much have quantize on all the time), thus working
> as a "set the loop" switch.  This works well for changing the time
> signature--swell for turning 4 into 3, 8 into 7, bla bla bla--
> I also have a pedal setting for "reverse now"--again something pretty doable
> with quantize off and insert on rev, but I don't have mine set up that way,
> so it's a parameter punch, then undo.
> Well, I combined them, and then ran the feedback to 0.  Now, if I have a
> blank loop, I can play something and have it play back reversed one time (or
> more, with feedback higher, but I find it more effective if it doesn't
> repeat--kinda like Andre's Loopfeste opener).  Again, for those of you with
> the right MIDI pedal, that's:
> Multiply on string A (when you press down), and record, parameter, undo
> (when you release).  This assumes you have quantize off.
> 
> Now, I have only had the new OS for a few hours--but the desired effect is,
> create a one time playback (in reverse) of new material.  This worked
> before, but now it turns off the loop.  I have tried some different things,
> but since live reverse is (and has been) listed as one of the features of
> the EDP, perhaps someone can suggest a good way to do this with the new OS.
> Here is the request, one more time--
> 
> Set the size of the loop, and play back the material, in reverse, one time.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any help

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 23 05:04:46 2002
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Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 10:02:25 +0100
Subject: this CARP thing...
From: Steve Lawson <steve@steve-lawson.co.uk>
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Boy, it's stuff like this that makes me thank God for the BBC - radio that
is free to the end user, has no commercials, plays a massively wide range of
stuff and pays the highest royalty rates to the artists in the UK.

If you want some shows that will really broaden you mind musically, where
the artists are getting paid handsomely for the broadcast, check out
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3 and find out the times that Late Junction,
Mixing It and Jazz on 3 are all - all three are very eclectic shows, and
Late Junction has even played my stuff, and when they did it was sandwiched
between Edgar Meyer and PJ Harvey! If you do tune in to any of those three
shows, please feel free to email them and request that they play something
off my most recent album, Conversations.... that would help A LOT... There's
a live stream from the website, and all are broadcast late night here in the
UK, so across the afternoon for you in the US.

cheers

Steve 
www.steve-lawson.co.uk
www.pillowmountainrecords.co.uk 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 23 05:12:57 2002
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Subject: Re: The RIAA are a bunch of commies
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 10:11:44 +0100
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Andre LaFosse" <altruist@earthlink.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2002 03:04 AM
Subject: Re: The RIAA are a bunch of commies


> SG and DT were saying:
>
> > > >If CARP ends up
> > > >pushing all non-commerical broadcasting off the
> > > >web, I think we end up losing in the wrong run.
> > > maybe.
> >
> > Maybe?  Not to be too difficult Senor Torn, but as you're already fairly
> > embedded in the music industry and enjoying its relative benefits of
> > exposure and other work being done on your behalf -
>
> I have to interject here, and say that the comment about work being done
> "on [his] behalf" is a fairly substantial disservice to David, who is
> one of the most jaw-droppingly proactive and hard-working people I've
> ever known.  I think there's a bit of an implication in the comment
> above that David's all set, and just sort of sits around whilst the
> mechanics of "the music industry" spin automatically on his behalf to
> promote and parlay opportunities for him... which couldn't be further
> from the truth.

I never attempted to say that he's some encapsulated Rock Star Type.  That's
a rude and stupid thing, and, indeed, couldn't be further from the truth.
My intent wasn't to imply that 'everything' is done for him.  He's had an
"in", and has benefitted from a degree of association with the Biz.  It
might be a bit nasty-sounding so I apologize in that case.

My saying this wasn't by definition a criticism.

> > as opposed to a most artists -
>
> Here again, this potentially implies that David has taken a different
> route than most other *working professionals*, which from what I know of
> his career is absolutely not the case.  We're talking about someone
> who's been getting in the proverbial (and often literal) van for about
> thirty years, playing out, hitting the road, diversifying his skills and
> sources of income, and building a name for himself through DECADES of
> very hard work - which continues to this very day.

"most artists" usually equals "those without contracts, operating on their
own, no lawyers, no agent, and not much money."

> I've never met a single successful working pro who doesn't work their
> ass off on a regular basis.  By the same token, I have never met a
> single successful working pro who subsists strictly off of free mp3
> downloads, royalties from online streams, or web site traffic.
>
> This is very important stuff to think about when it comes to discussing
> the web as a source of income for artists, and where that figures into
> the much larger overall equation of a serious professional's livelihood.
>
> With that in mind, here's David's comment (which he wrote after his
> "maybe" remark) which was snipped out of Stephen's reply, and which I
> think does much to illuminate where he's coming from:
>
> > all's i know is:
> > i attempt to get paid for what i do,
> > when it's appropriate (like when the
> > 'non-commercial' website is profitable
> > to *somebody*)..... so that i can
> > continue doing it.
>
> So, without wanting to speak for David, MY OWN interpretation of his
> comments here (as well as his reply to Valerie, vis a vis the
> difficulties of securing mechanical royalties for sales of tangible
> product) would go something like this:
>
> Increasing one's visibility is good.  Making the listening public aware
> of what you're doing is important.  It's alsp important that outlets for
> disseminating people's work are able to function in such a way that
> they're able to stay afloat financially while continuing to make music
> available to listeners.  I'm not in favor of the CARP's prohibitively
> high rate.
>
> But... as I look at the slightly bigger picture...
>
> ...as online music comes of age, and as people start to explore the
> long-term ramifications of free information, free music, intellectual
> copyright, etc. etc., it's important to try and clarify - in one's own
> mind, at least - where the line gets drawn between free promotion and
> tangible compensation for services rendered.
>
> In other words, I don't support oppressively high broadcast royalty
> rates for online radio.  But I do support the idea that the artists who
> are responsible for creating that content in the first place should be
> able to benefit from the dissemination of their work (which is creating
> the reason for the online radio station's existence in the first place)
> - not just as a promotional tool, but in terms of payment via publishing
> royalties for material that's broadcast in the first place.
>
> The tricky part is that, as Kim pointed out the other day, almost ANY
> rate is going to be too high for a lot of online stations.
>
> Exposure and visibility is an important thing... but if it comes at the
> expense of sacrificing your sources of potential income, then what sort
> of victory is it, ultimately?
>
> No definitive answers here, at least not from me.  But some things worth
> thinking about, I do believe...
>
> --Andre LaFosse
> The Echoplex Analysis Pages:
> http://www.altruistmusic.com/EDP
>
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 23 05:17:29 2002
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Subject: Re: IF the RIAA aren't commies, then what are they?
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 10:16:22 +0100
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Richards" <kohntarkosz@yahoo.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2002 04:42 AM
Subject: IF the RIAA aren't commies, then what are they?


> <<if the RIAA, by the way, really were communists
>
>   musicians might be a bit happier.  ;) the RIAA
> are in fact capitalists, operating in a non-fair
> market environment.>>
>
> I think you missed the point of what I meant when
> they called the RIAA commies. Would you prefer I
> had called them fascists?!

I prefer the phrase "cigar-chomping rat bastard parapet-protecting music
industry assholes," actually.  "Fascist" would imply that they engage in
direct and deliberate attempts to get us all beat up, jailed, or otherwise
repressed - though, if their lawyers could figure out a way to get away with
it...

Stephen P. Goodman
EarthLight Productions
*
http://www.earthlight.net/Studios - The Free Loop of the Week!
http://www.earthlight.net/Gallery_Front.html - Cartoons!
http://www.earthlight.net/HiddenTrack.html - More Cartoons!

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 23 05:20:17 2002
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Hi,   Thought I'd add my experience here.  I had what sounds like the same problem
with my Repeater about a year ago or so.  At the time I refered to it as a "warble";
it was a hum with a slight modulation of the pitch at about 2 hz, and was noticable
during periods of silence both from line outs and headphones.  I also notice some
crackling from the input pot.  After quite a bit of back-and-forth, Electrix agreed
to ship/repair the unit.  After about 6 weeks in the shop, I got it back - no
crackle, but the hum was still there.  Many more back-and-forth messages, and a few
phone calls.  Finally Electrix agreed to replace the unit.

The new unit hums a bit, but it's not nearly as bad as the original, and doesn't have
that "warbly" quality; in fact, if I weren't sensitized to this problem, I probably
wouldn't notice it.  I think the Repeater has a design flaw, and that in some units
it's barely noticable, while in others it is a more serious problem.  If the hum is
causing problems for you, I suggest getting in touch with Electrix.  They're not the
most responsive folks that I've dealt with, but they're pretty friendly when they do
respond, and willing to be helpful.  Good luck.

Elby



>
> Subject: Re: Hi, it's me again...repeater buzz noise
> Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 12:46:18 -0700
> From: Beatrice and Matthew Jasper <jasp@metrocast.net>
> To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
>
> Hello--
>
>      I heard the buzz you describe through headphone jacks & was wondering
> if other units did that also & I guess the answer must be yes.   actual line
> out appears to be less affected and with audio levels at appropriate setting
> I don't notice it in the final loops unless there's a short segment of
> silence.   Even then, not so bad.....     Have been having fun with the
> repeater also though I don't fully comprehend it yet....
>
> Best Wishes,
>
> M. Jasper, Esq.
>
> www.mp3.com/pneumershonic
>
> > From: Goddess <thefates@earthlink.net>
> > Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> > Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 00:35:17 -0600
> > To: loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com
> > Subject: Hi, it's me again...
> > Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> > Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 02:35:52 -0400
> >
> > <smile>  I everyone, yes, it's me, returning at long last yet again, from
> > the great beyond.  lol!
> > Anyway, -wanted to say hello, and also have a REpeater question.  First
> > off, I absolutely LOVE IT!, but am finding that it's a bit noisy compared
> > to my other gear.  I think I'll be able to manage just fine with it, but am
> > just concerned whether or not it's working properly.  The noise I'm getting
> > seems to be at about 120 or 130 hz or so, and is sort of a buzzy, hummy
> > processing noise, modulating ever so slightly.   lol!  -What  a
> > description!   lollollol!
> > Anyway, It's not horrible, but is about 5 times  more prevalent than my
> > other gear.  -But as I said, I think I can get sufficient level enough so
> > it won't be a problem.  Is this normal?  Thanks for any ideas anyone might
> > have, and nice to be back yet again...  lol!
> >
> > Smiles,
> >
> > G-Girl

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 23 06:12:25 2002
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From: "Rainer Straschill" <rs@moinlabs.de>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Commies and Facists, which is worse...
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 12:10:48 +0200
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Hi,

interesting to find that America, as always, stays true to their political
history: some (as you call it)"cigar-chomping rat bastard
parapet-protecting music industry assholes" are, for the sake of simplicity,
called commies, because everybody knows what you mean. In Germany, probably
most people would call them "facists" (there had even been these funny
installation, in effect until today, where the so-called
"Studentenvertretung" (student's representative), especially in the states
which do not range anywhere acceptable in international comparison, could
actually extract membership fees from all the students, and use them to
finance their senseless "Antifa" (anti-fascism) programme, based above all
on political and historic ignorance). Actually, as these people really
_were_ (are) commies, I can accept the initial quote that the RIAA are
commies, because just like mentioned before, they force us to pay them
money, which they use to do something idiotic/counterproductive/egoistic.
And as somebody who pays horrendous amounts of taxes trying to make up for
40 years of Soviet rule in a part of Germany, the metaphor of the "commie"
as "somebody who rips me off" also works...:-)

Just some rambling, I'll shut up now.

	Rainer

Rainer Straschill
Moinlabs GFX and Soundworks - www.moinlabs.de
digital penis expert group - www.dpeg.de
The MoinSound Archives - www.mp3.com/moinlabs


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stephen P. Goodman [mailto:spgoodman@earthlight.net]
> Sent: Sonntag, 23. Juni 2002 11:16
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Subject: Re: IF the RIAA aren't commies, then what are they?
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Richards" <kohntarkosz@yahoo.com>
> To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2002 04:42 AM
> Subject: IF the RIAA aren't commies, then what are they?
>
>
> > <<if the RIAA, by the way, really were communists
> >
> >   musicians might be a bit happier.  ;) the RIAA
> > are in fact capitalists, operating in a non-fair
> > market environment.>>
> >
> > I think you missed the point of what I meant when
> > they called the RIAA commies. Would you prefer I
> > had called them fascists?!
>
> I prefer the phrase "cigar-chomping rat bastard
> parapet-protecting music
> industry assholes," actually.  "Fascist" would imply that
> they engage in
> direct and deliberate attempts to get us all beat up, jailed,
> or otherwise
> repressed - though, if their lawyers could figure out a way
> to get away with
> it...
>
> Stephen P. Goodman
> EarthLight Productions
> *
> http://www.earthlight.net/Studios - The Free Loop of the Week!
> http://www.earthlight.net/Gallery_Front.html - Cartoons!
> http://www.earthlight.net/HiddenTrack.html - More Cartoons!
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 23 09:05:03 2002
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Subject: Re: The RIAA are a bunch of commies
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herr goodman,

though you responded to the following, it was definitely *not* me who said 
it; i believe that might have been chris r.???? (kohntarkos)

>> >If CARP ends up
>> >pushing all non-commerical broadcasting off the
>> >web, I think we end up losing in the wrong run.
>> maybe.

>Maybe?  Not to be too difficult Senor Torn, but as you're already fairly
>embedded in the music industry 

even though, again, you were responding to what someone else said:
that seems a bit naive, stephen --- i am far from being 'embedded in the 
music industry', though i do 'know people who know people'.
*-)
i'm certainly lightyears farther from 'embedded' than brian eno;
i have no hired-in public relations firm, no record company backing.
by necessity, i *do* have a lawyer, to whom i am deeply grateful for his 
candor, insight & firmly ethical stance.
recently, too, i have employed a personal manager.

>and enjoying its relative benefits of
>exposure and other work being done on your behalf - 

again, that seems pretty naive. very little work is done on my behalf: most 
of it having been done by me, for the past -what?- 35 years? eek.....
i've never had the 'benefit' of a record company paying-off comm'l. radio to 
play my material, nor has a record company ever seriously employed a p.r. 
company for me;
historically, the record-company either: 
a) wasn't like that, b) didn't see that option as cost-effective or c) simply 
didn't have the dosh.
(add'ly, for background: i've never been signed to a 'major', and none of my 
recording deals have been 'long-term': thankfully!).

>as opposed to a most
>artists - please remember that we have all been given a canvas to work
>upon - broadcasting, which has been under a music biz stranglehold until
>now - via the Internet.  Are you saying that taking this away from us could
>have a positive benefit for us?  Please elaborate (and I say this with
>the most sincere interest in what you have to say).

what i *did* try to say in *my* email was simply this:
musical artists should get paid for what they do, with-or-without the 
internet.

best,
dt / s-c

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 23 09:15:10 2002
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Subject: Re: CARP Passed - This sucks!
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>> AKASHMUSIC@aol.com writes
>> >not even say Josh Wink or King Britt have an answer or perhaps they
>dont
>> >wana
>> >tell me...but I wonder if in fact they really know how its "all"
>accounted
>> >for in their music beyond any licensing or one off remix fees they get
>> >up
>> >front.
>> >how do you make $$$ off of dance music and get paid for your music as
>it
>> >climbs the so called dance charts?.

i said:
>> not being disingenuous, here:
>> you could find and employ a good entertainment industry lawyer --- one
>whom
>> you understand, is recommended to you, and seems trustworthy.

stephen said:
>Sounds like a conflict in terms! :)  Actually part of this struggle with
>the
>RIAA also has to do with keeping lawyers' greasy fingers from fouling the
>Internet up TOO much.  And who besides a medium-large music company has
>the
>money for such services?

personally, i couldn't afford to *not* have my lawyer onboard.
and, frankly, i believe that it's possible that the largest group 
(per-capita) of greedmongers, idiots, scumbags & thieves in the wider music 
industry are 'artists';
if we all had the sharp brains and steady ethics of *my* lawyer, the world 
would be a MUCH better place.

best,
dt / s-c

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 23 09:20:15 2002
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Subject: Re: The RIAA are a bunch of commies
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after i erred like this,

>>from what i read, you get .07 cents (that's 7/10th of one american cent)

zvonar@zvonar.com writes to correct me:
>Actually 7/100ths.

eek! i'm an idiot, sometimes.....
thanks, rz.
best,
dt / s-c

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 23 09:28:08 2002
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Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 09:26:31 EDT
Subject: tape delay on ebay
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stumbled onto this on ebay.  thought it might be of interest. - paul

<<http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=888421069>>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 23 11:18:01 2002
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From: Rik Elswit <rik@well.com>
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"If you want some shows that will really broaden you mind musically, where
the artists are getting paid handsomely for the broadcast, check out
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3 and find out the times that Late Junction,"


Yeah but you're a bunch a commies, right?

Seriously, though, the US government's lack of support for the arts and arts
education should be an international scandal.   Our national philosophy has
gone from making a living to making a killing, and the arts don't qualify
for public support.  I envy you guys.

Rik

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 23 11:53:30 2002
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Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 08:52:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Banjology <banjology@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: The RIAA are a bunch of commies
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So,
hmm i don't know...i mean i'm pretty new to the list,
but what really does all this nazi mess have to do
with looping shit?

John


=====
John LeGassey
Banjology@yahoo.com
AOL Messenger - GtrJazz9
Yahoo Messenger - GtrJazz9

Guitarist - Instructor

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
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Subject:  LINE 6 ECHO PRO review
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 <A HREF="http://industryclick.com/magazinearticle.asp?magazineid=33&releaseid=10207&magazinearticleid=149024&siteid=15">Click here: LINE 6 ECHO PRO</A> 

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2> <A HREF="http://industryclick.com/magazinearticle.asp?magazineid=33&releaseid=10207&magazinearticleid=149024&siteid=15">Click here: LINE 6 ECHO PRO</A> </FONT></HTML>

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Nemoguitt@aol.com wrote:

>  Click here: LINE 6 ECHO PRO

Good review! this is the first I've noticed that makes mention of
additional algorithms that don't appear in the stompbox. I didn't know
this. Are there really new types of echo in the echo pro? I know the
loop thing is 60 seconds as opposed to 20 but what is totally new?

Also, again I'm sure this has been discussed but I missed it.  Does line
6 make a foot pedal board for their pro series that mimics the DL4 and
that series?

On of the great things about the DL4 is that it is a nice FAT easy to
stomp on unit.  I like the foot switches *especially* the way they work
in loop mode. Does Line 6 offer a floor board with these switches (and
maybe even more?) or do users have to go the 3rd party midi route?

If it is third party what do you use?

Finally I've priced these lately and it seems most places can do $399 if
you ask. Anyone get better that that new?





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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
&nbsp;
<br>Nemoguitt@aol.com wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><font face="arial,helvetica"><font size=-1>&nbsp;<a href="http://industryclick.com/magazinearticle.asp?magazineid=33&releaseid=10207&magazinearticleid=149024&siteid=15">Click
here: LINE 6 ECHO PRO</a></font></font></blockquote>
Good review! this is the first I've noticed that makes mention of&nbsp;
additional algorithms that don't appear in the stompbox. I didn't know
this. Are there really new types of echo in the echo pro? I know the loop
thing is 60 seconds as opposed to 20 but what is totally new?
<p>Also, again I'm sure this has been discussed but I missed it.&nbsp;
Does line 6 make a foot pedal board for their pro series that mimics the
DL4 and that series?
<p>On of the great things about the DL4 is that it is a nice FAT easy to
stomp on unit.&nbsp; I like the foot switches *especially* the way they
work in loop mode. Does Line 6 offer a floor board with these switches
(and maybe even more?) or do users have to go the 3rd party midi route?
<p>If it is third party what do you use?
<p>Finally I've priced these lately and it seems most places can do $399
if you ask. Anyone get better that that new?
<br>&nbsp;
<br>&nbsp;
<br>&nbsp;
<br>&nbsp;</html>

--Boundary_(ID_GfQ/WuhGDhunSf+PD6f+WA)--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 23 12:24:35 2002
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From: "Gary Rouzer" <gz3739@earthlink.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com, "Bret" <echoplex@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Loop 4 Problem
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Bret,

I re installed the Eproms following your directions but still I get
nothing. How long do you have to wait for the "Loop 4" to start scrolling?

	Gary


> [Original Message]
> From: Bret <echoplex@yahoo.com>
> To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>; <gz3739@earthlink.net>
 > Date: 6/23/02 12:39:48 AM
> Subject: Re: Loop 4 Problem
>
> Gary,
> I have to ask the obvious, were you careful to orient each of the
> Eproms in the right direction, sure you put the even Eprom in the even
> socket, and odd in the odd, and that no legs of the eproms were bent or
> missed the socket?
> These would be the most likely causes of malfunction.
> The little 'notch' on one end of the eprom should face away from the
> transformer side of the edp (have the notch to your left as you are
> facing the edp), the even eprom is towards the back of the edp, the odd
> eprom is towards the front of the epd.
> I hope that is clear.  A picture would be better
> 
> bret
> --- Gary Rouzer <gz3739@earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> <HR>
> <HTML><HEAD>
> <META content="text/html; charset=windows-1251"
> http-equiv=Content-Type>
> <META content="MSHTML 5.00.3105.105" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
> <BODY>
> <P>
> <DIV></DIV>
> <DIV>Hi,</DIV>
> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV>I installed my new Loop4 software&nbsp;two days ago but I've got a
> problem. When&nbsp;I powered&nbsp;the EDP up, while holding the
> parameters button, the "Loop 4" never scrolled across. I waited for
> about 2 minutes. I emailed Shane at Gibson but have not received a
> response yet.&nbsp;&nbsp;I reinstalled the Loop3&nbsp;but&nbsp;now it
> doesn't&nbsp;work either. Any suggestions?</DIV>
> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Gary</DIV>
> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>
> 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
> http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com


--- Gary Rouzer
--- gz3739@earthlink.net
--- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet.


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Original Message--
Andre suggested:
-- What about using DirectMIDI commands for SUS-Unrounded Multiply and
Reverse?  It seems to me that the Multiply on String A - Record on
String B thing is basically doing an Unrounded Multiply, which is
available as a DirectMIDI command in LoopIV.  What if you did the SUS
version of that on string A, and then DirectMIDI for Reverse on String
B?  (Doing Reverse via DirectMIDI would save you the trouble of having
to program the Parameter thing as well).

**I tried this new command--doesn't seem to do what I expect if Quantize is
on . . . It wanted to round with Q=loop or cycle, momentary works with
Q=off, might be working correctly with =8th--
But the problem isn't with the loop setter--that still works fine, I can get
the unquantize effect in a quantized state.  The difficulty I'm having is in
going immediately into reverse, i.e., playing back the loop length in
reverse.
This is an effect I have used live--it is not something I cannot live
without.
But I am still curious--doesn't anybody else do this?  Ya know, the live
reverse thing, one repeat of whatever you just played, in reverse?  If so,
how?

Andre futher inquired, politely:
How are you liking LoopIV aside from your current issues?

It's great!  I haven't gotten anywhere yet--I knew it would take a while
before I knew any of the specifics, just because there are so many new
features.  There are a handful of these that will make me a better
looper--and I will put the time in to it.  Heck, I haven't even hooked a
drum machine up to it yet!
So far, this one roadblock has taken a couple of hours, trying different
things to try to achieve what I already had nailed and getting nowhere.
Time to get back to exploring . . .
Gary

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 23 12:27:46 2002
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Subject: petereinhorn: Re: granular looping as a sustain pedal?
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just caught this.....

petereinhorn@mac.com writes:
>Can granular looping be used to imitate a sustain pedal (as the functions
>name implies] or, even better, a sostenuto pedal?
w/the granular looping effect (as defined by kim) on the edp IV?
well..... sort of, but w/audible bumps.
(it's a useable sound, for me, but not what i guess yer trying to get at, 
here).
your best bet to achieve this effect might be with the 'reverb looping' 
capability of an (old) lexicon pcm70 (usually available for under $500., 
used) attached to a midi controller.
hth.
best,
dt / splattercell

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 23 12:36:10 2002
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Oh man, I was in tears while reading this.  VERY FUNNY MR. MCALLISTER!

But if I am LD's underpaid security guard... where's the money?  SHOW ME 
THE MONEY!

AHAH AHHHHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHA

Mark Sottilaro

On Saturday, June 22, 2002, at 08:10  AM, William Mcallister wrote:

> To Mr. Keith Kotay- dont be disturbed by Mark Sottilaro's comments. At
> the heart of things he means well, he actually wants you you enjoy your
> dl4. For reasons unkown, dear Mark needs constant reassurance of his
> intellectual ego in a way that his psychological make-up hates anyone
> who knows less than him, as in the projection of putting himself up here
> and you ( us, many people) down there. Its just an illusion he has
> created for himself. Behind all that he is a Soul, as is everyone. Also
> you would be doing yourself a dishoner by buying into his insanity as LD
> listserver has a wealth of knowledge to offer you in your looping
> adventures as well as many good hearted people with exquisite knowledge
> of the field. Once again dont be dismayed by LD's underpayed security
> gaurd. He means well. Many Blessings, Bill/Las Vegas
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 23 12:51:13 2002
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No Steven, I've got to stand up and defend our pal Bill.  Bill has 
recognized that as well as dishing it out, I can take it too.  My wife 
and I were laughing hysterically while reading his personal attach, 
which seemed to me to be more aimed to making the person offended 
(though I'm not sure why, I was just trying to show him another side of 
his argument) feel better about staying on the list than making me feel 
bad.  And if he did it to make me feel bad, so what?  Sticks and stones, 
ya know?  If you base even a tiny bit of your self esteem on what people 
say about you in an open forum such as this, I think it is a mistake.

Again, Bill feel more than welcome to write any critique of me you'd 
like, just try and make it funny.

Mark Sottilaro

On Saturday, June 22, 2002, at 08:15  AM, Stephen P. Goodman wrote:

> I don't think such is acceptable.  Granted I've lost my temper on LD 
> before,
> especially after 9/11, but I never attempted to personally do damage to
> anyone like this.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "William Mcallister" <BILLYBUDDHA@webtv.net>
>
> <personal attack snipped>
>
>> Many Blessings, Bill/Las Vegas
>
> That's a bit like the effect critics of $cientology call the "smiling
> thetan".  In other words, the smile you get at the same time as a sharp
> object in the back.  Quite common with that bunch.
>
> Stephen P. Goodman
> EarthLight Productions
> *
> http://www.earthlight.net/Studios - The Free Loop of the Week!
> http://www.earthlight.net/Gallery_Front.html - Cartoons!
> http://www.earthlight.net/HiddenTrack.html - More Cartoons!
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 23 12:59:22 2002
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Huh, then I can't help you, but I'd search the archives if I were you.  
A few others I think got defective units that had some noise problem, so 
I'd check into that if I were you.  My unit seems very quiet.  Good luck.

Mark Sottilaro

On Saturday, June 22, 2002, at 11:00  AM, Goddess wrote:

>   Hi Mark, I don't use a guitar amp at all.  -Just a reference 
> amplifier.
> So I run line level all the way from the preamp outs onward.
>   Yes, I checked both the instrument input, with both the headphone out,
> and main outs, and then also the main input and outputs.  The noise 
> level
> seems better with the main outs, but still really noticable.  -As i said
> though, I think I can still work with it, but has this been an issue 
> with
> you or any other repeater owners?  if there's a problem, I'll just see
> about getting it taken care of.  Thanks for your thoughts, and any other
> ideas you might have would also be greatly appreciated.  Have an awesome
> day!, K?
>
> Smiles,
>
> G-Girl
>
>
>  At 11:51 PM 6/21/02 -0700, you wrote:
>> Welcome back.
>>
>> You're issue with the Repeater is probably due to the fact that it's
>> strictly a line level device in terms of it's outputs.  I've never
>> really plugged a mic or instrument into it's front jack, but the output
>> is HOT, and not designed to go into a high gain preamp, such as a 
>> guitar
>> amp.  It's best put in the (line level) effects loop of  your guitar
>> amp, if you happen to have one.  If you can't work this way, there are
>> devices on the market that convert line to instrument level, and back
>> again.  This makes the Repeater a little tricky for guitar players,
>> unless  you're like me, and your signal never really ends up at a
>> traditional guitar amp.  (guitar-Digitech 2120 preamp-Repeater-mixer to
>> a pair of Mackie 450s is how I have mine set up)
>>
>> good luck,
>>
>> Mark Sottilaro
>>
>>
>> On Friday, June 21, 2002, at 11:35  PM, Goddess wrote:
>>
>>>   <smile>  I everyone, yes, it's me, returning at long last yet again,
>>> from
>>> the great beyond.  lol!
>>>   Anyway, -wanted to say hello, and also have a REpeater question.
>>> First
>>> off, I absolutely LOVE IT!, but am finding that it's a bit noisy
>>> compared
>>> to my other gear.  I think I'll be able to manage just fine with it,
>>> but am
>>> just concerned whether or not it's working properly.  The noise I'm
>>> getting
>>> seems to be at about 120 or 130 hz or so, and is sort of a buzzy, 
>>> hummy
>>> processing noise, modulating ever so slightly.   lol!  -What  a
>>> description!   lollollol!
>>>   Anyway, It's not horrible, but is about 5 times  more prevalent than
>>> my
>>> other gear.  -But as I said, I think I can get sufficient level enough
>>> so
>>> it won't be a problem.  Is this normal?  Thanks for any ideas anyone
>>> might
>>> have, and nice to be back yet again...  lol!
>>>
>>> Smiles,
>>>
>>> G-Girl
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>>   "The only things I really think are important, are love, and
>>> eachother.
>>> -Then, anything is possible..."
>>>
>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~thefates
>>>
>>> Please visit The Guitar Cafe.
>>>
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-guitar-cafe
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ---
>
>   "The only things I really think are important, are love, and 
> eachother.
> -Then, anything is possible..."
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~thefates
>
> Please visit The Guitar Cafe.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-guitar-cafe
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 23 13:23:45 2002
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Subject: RE: Hi, it's me again...
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 13:21:22 -0400
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G,

i suggest using the 'dry mute' function (unfortunately you can't program the
repeater to boot in this mode), use something like aux sends on a mixer to
feed/return the signal, and look out for ground loops.  i had to do all of
these things to eliminate the repeater noise (or noise from other
equipment).  especially playing with the power connection.  i actually had
to reconnect most of my power to a single furman to eliminate the noise.

mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sottilaro [mailto:sine@zerocrossing.net]
Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2002 12:58 PM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Hi, it's me again...


Huh, then I can't help you, but I'd search the archives if I were you.
A few others I think got defective units that had some noise problem, so
I'd check into that if I were you.  My unit seems very quiet.  Good luck.

Mark Sottilaro

On Saturday, June 22, 2002, at 11:00  AM, Goddess wrote:

>   Hi Mark, I don't use a guitar amp at all.  -Just a reference
> amplifier.
> So I run line level all the way from the preamp outs onward.
>   Yes, I checked both the instrument input, with both the headphone out,
> and main outs, and then also the main input and outputs.  The noise
> level
> seems better with the main outs, but still really noticable.  -As i said
> though, I think I can still work with it, but has this been an issue
> with
> you or any other repeater owners?  if there's a problem, I'll just see
> about getting it taken care of.  Thanks for your thoughts, and any other
> ideas you might have would also be greatly appreciated.  Have an awesome
> day!, K?
>
> Smiles,
>
> G-Girl
>
>
>  At 11:51 PM 6/21/02 -0700, you wrote:
>> Welcome back.
>>
>> You're issue with the Repeater is probably due to the fact that it's
>> strictly a line level device in terms of it's outputs.  I've never
>> really plugged a mic or instrument into it's front jack, but the output
>> is HOT, and not designed to go into a high gain preamp, such as a
>> guitar
>> amp.  It's best put in the (line level) effects loop of  your guitar
>> amp, if you happen to have one.  If you can't work this way, there are
>> devices on the market that convert line to instrument level, and back
>> again.  This makes the Repeater a little tricky for guitar players,
>> unless  you're like me, and your signal never really ends up at a
>> traditional guitar amp.  (guitar-Digitech 2120 preamp-Repeater-mixer to
>> a pair of Mackie 450s is how I have mine set up)
>>
>> good luck,
>>
>> Mark Sottilaro
>>
>>
>> On Friday, June 21, 2002, at 11:35  PM, Goddess wrote:
>>
>>>   <smile>  I everyone, yes, it's me, returning at long last yet again,
>>> from
>>> the great beyond.  lol!
>>>   Anyway, -wanted to say hello, and also have a REpeater question.
>>> First
>>> off, I absolutely LOVE IT!, but am finding that it's a bit noisy
>>> compared
>>> to my other gear.  I think I'll be able to manage just fine with it,
>>> but am
>>> just concerned whether or not it's working properly.  The noise I'm
>>> getting
>>> seems to be at about 120 or 130 hz or so, and is sort of a buzzy,
>>> hummy
>>> processing noise, modulating ever so slightly.   lol!  -What  a
>>> description!   lollollol!
>>>   Anyway, It's not horrible, but is about 5 times  more prevalent than
>>> my
>>> other gear.  -But as I said, I think I can get sufficient level enough
>>> so
>>> it won't be a problem.  Is this normal?  Thanks for any ideas anyone
>>> might
>>> have, and nice to be back yet again...  lol!
>>>
>>> Smiles,
>>>
>>> G-Girl
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>>   "The only things I really think are important, are love, and
>>> eachother.
>>> -Then, anything is possible..."
>>>
>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~thefates
>>>
>>> Please visit The Guitar Cafe.
>>>
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-guitar-cafe
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ---
>
>   "The only things I really think are important, are love, and
> eachother.
> -Then, anything is possible..."
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~thefates
>
> Please visit The Guitar Cafe.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-guitar-cafe
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 23 14:00:26 2002
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Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 13:55:57 -0400
From: skincage <skincage@infin8ty.com>
Subject: stereo volume pedal recommendations
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could someone recommend a good pedal to use as a foot control for a stereo signal's level
into another box? i'm never going to be using it in a guitar context, in fact basically i'd
just be using it as a sort of gate between my aux sends and a repeater or vortex's input to
add some dynamics to the incoming loops.

this is probably a dopey question, so thanks for any insight!

jon

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Hi,

Does anyone have experience using American rack gear/laptops/PA gear overseas?  

Reccomendations for power adaptors, experinces with blow-outs/how to avoid them are most appreciated!!!  

Thanks!!!

Gigging accross the water,

Bradley Fish

 

 



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup
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<P>Hi,</P>
<P>Does anyone have experience using&nbsp;American rack gear/laptops/PA gear&nbsp;overseas?&nbsp;&nbsp;</P>
<P>Reccomendations for power adaptors, experinces with blow-outs/how to avoid them are most appreciated!!!&nbsp;&nbsp;</P>
<P>Thanks!!!</P>
<P>Gigging accross the water,</P>
<P>Bradley Fish</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P><p><br><hr size=1><b>Do You Yahoo!?</b><br>
<a href="http://rd.yahoo.com/welcome/*http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/fc/en/spl">Sign-up for Video Highlights</a> of 2002 FIFA World Cup
--0-1777233410-1024855731=:70112--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 23 14:10:35 2002
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Would the Korg XVP-10 be what you're looking for? It has two separate 
inputs, two separate outputs (in1 goes to out1, in2 goes to out2, volume 
of both outs is set simultaneously by the angle of the footpedal) and a 
tuner output (both inputs, full volume) and a small dial under the 
footpedal part that allows you to set the minimum volume. There's a 
little crosstalk between the channels, but it's very slight. It's very 
solid metal, sounds good, I'd spend timefinding a replacement if this one 
ever left me. I picked mine up used a few years ago, so I have no idea 
what a good price for it would be (not implying I want to get rid of 
mine, I just can't give you an idea of if it'll fit into your budget). I 
was using it at one point as a master volume for the Chapman Stick with 
different effects chains for the bass and melody sides. 

best,
Steve Burnett


On Sun, 23 Jun 2002, skincage wrote:

> could someone recommend a good pedal to use as a foot control for a stereo signal's level
> into another box? i'm never going to be using it in a guitar context, in fact basically i'd
> just be using it as a sort of gate between my aux sends and a repeater or vortex's input to
> add some dynamics to the incoming loops.
> 
> this is probably a dopey question, so thanks for any insight!
> 
> jon
> 
> 

-- 
Steve Burnett    burnett@pobox.com   http://www.pobox.com/~burnett/
System Administration Technical Documentation Information Retrieval


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Ahh, time, the great healer . . .
The solution was to assign note off messages to match the Undo notes (after
the parameter push--serves as reverse).  For some reason, Undo note on
messages with no note off are resetting the loop in the new EDP LoopIV OS
(after parameter push anyway--it's all programmed into the PMC, so it goes
pretty fast).  Didn't do it in the last OS--but I fixed my own problem . . .
I am still interested in hearing how others may achieve this effect--I know
there a great many ways to skin this particular cat.
I mapped the Ztar to cover the spectrum of Direct MIDI functions--just
barely gets 'em all (three octaves of Note Ons!), but it looks like quite a
few of these commands are better executed without the use of the hands, so
you can keep playing.  Too much stuff to check out all at once--an
embarassment of riches.  Thanks again all . . .
Gary

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Subject: Re: CARP Passed - This sucks!
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----- Original Message -----
From: <Hedewa7@aol.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2002 14:13 PM
Subject: Re: CARP Passed - This sucks!


>
>
> >> AKASHMUSIC@aol.com writes
> >> >not even say Josh Wink or King Britt have an answer or perhaps they
> >dont
> >> >wana
> >> >tell me...but I wonder if in fact they really know how its "all"
> >accounted
> >> >for in their music beyond any licensing or one off remix fees they get
> >> >up
> >> >front.
> >> >how do you make $$$ off of dance music and get paid for your music as
> >it
> >> >climbs the so called dance charts?.
>
> i said:
> >> not being disingenuous, here:
> >> you could find and employ a good entertainment industry lawyer --- one
> >whom
> >> you understand, is recommended to you, and seems trustworthy.
>
> stephen said:
> >Sounds like a conflict in terms! :)  Actually part of this struggle with
> >the
> >RIAA also has to do with keeping lawyers' greasy fingers from fouling the
> >Internet up TOO much.  And who besides a medium-large music company has
> >the
> >money for such services?
>
> personally, i couldn't afford to *not* have my lawyer onboard.
> and, frankly, i believe that it's possible that the largest group
> (per-capita) of greedmongers, idiots, scumbags & thieves in the wider
music
> industry are 'artists';
> if we all had the sharp brains and steady ethics of *my* lawyer, the world
> would be a MUCH better place.

While I despise the idea of lawyers as "necessary transaction", as they've
been teaching at law schools for some time now, I completely agree with the
idea that they're necessary if only for self-defense on the contractual
level (have they not made it that way, though?).

Stephen P. Goodman
EarthLight Productions
*
http://www.earthlight.net/Studios - The Free Loop of the Week!
http://www.earthlight.net/Gallery_Front.html - Cartoons!
http://www.earthlight.net/HiddenTrack.html - More Cartoons!

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 23 14:20:42 2002
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----- Original Message -----
From: <Hedewa7@aol.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2002 14:18 PM
Subject: Re: The RIAA are a bunch of commies


> after i erred like this,
>
> >>from what i read, you get .07 cents (that's 7/10th of one american cent)
>
> zvonar@zvonar.com writes to correct me:
> >Actually 7/100ths.
>
> eek! i'm an idiot, sometimes.....
> thanks, rz.

We don't love you for your math skills. :)

Stephen P. Goodman
EarthLight Productions
*
http://www.earthlight.net/Studios - The Free Loop of the Week!
http://www.earthlight.net/Gallery_Front.html - Cartoons!
http://www.earthlight.net/HiddenTrack.html - More Cartoons!

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 23 14:22:01 2002
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Subject: Re: this CARP thing...
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Do the BBC's radio stations have a 'new music' venue?  Or is it just from
regular releases that they cull their broadcast work?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Lawson" <steve@steve-lawson.co.uk>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2002 10:02 AM
Subject: this CARP thing...


> Boy, it's stuff like this that makes me thank God for the BBC - radio that
> is free to the end user, has no commercials, plays a massively wide range
of
> stuff and pays the highest royalty rates to the artists in the UK.
>
> If you want some shows that will really broaden you mind musically, where
> the artists are getting paid handsomely for the broadcast, check out
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3 and find out the times that Late Junction,
> Mixing It and Jazz on 3 are all - all three are very eclectic shows, and
> Late Junction has even played my stuff, and when they did it was
sandwiched
> between Edgar Meyer and PJ Harvey! If you do tune in to any of those three
> shows, please feel free to email them and request that they play something
> off my most recent album, Conversations.... that would help A LOT...
There's
> a live stream from the website, and all are broadcast late night here in
the
> UK, so across the afternoon for you in the US.
>
> cheers
>
> Steve
> www.steve-lawson.co.uk
> www.pillowmountainrecords.co.uk
>
>
>
>

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----- Original Message -----
From: <Hedewa7@aol.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2002 14:02 PM
Subject: Re: The RIAA are a bunch of commies


> herr goodman,
>
> though you responded to the following, it was definitely *not* me who said
> it; i believe that might have been chris r.???? (kohntarkos)
>
> >> >If CARP ends up
> >> >pushing all non-commerical broadcasting off the
> >> >web, I think we end up losing in the wrong run.
> >> maybe.
>
> >Maybe?  Not to be too difficult Senor Torn, but as you're already fairly
> >embedded in the music industry
>
> even though, again, you were responding to what someone else said:
> that seems a bit naive, stephen --- i am far from being 'embedded in the
> music industry', though i do 'know people who know people'.
> *-)

Okay, I knee-jerked.  Sorry.  End point is you've broken through the primary
barriers to working as you do.  If one of them is being broadcast - and I
don't think radio is anything other than a promotional medium to many
folks - think of those who won't ever get heard if this draconian stuff gets
finalized.  It's what causes the Britney Spears Syndrome referred to in
other messages.  While that stuff only works for a short while, it doesn't
ultimately work for anyone much less the Big Five, though they obviously
don't realize it.

(I'm somewhat puzzled by the way at the recent Sony ads over here in the UK,
that show the MD recorder/player, and how easy it is to rip your favorite
tunes onto it.  Weirdly contradictory, don't you think?)

> i'm certainly lightyears farther from 'embedded' than brian eno;
> i have no hired-in public relations firm, no record company backing.
> by necessity, i *do* have a lawyer, to whom i am deeply grateful for his
> candor, insight & firmly ethical stance.
> recently, too, i have employed a personal manager.

Wrong wording, again my apologies.  My thoughts had more to do with
perspective I suppose.

> >and enjoying its relative benefits of
> >exposure and other work being done on your behalf -
>
> again, that seems pretty naive. very little work is done on my behalf:
most
> of it having been done by me, for the past -what?- 35 years? eek.....
> i've never had the 'benefit' of a record company paying-off comm'l. radio
to
> play my material, nor has a record company ever seriously employed a p.r.
> company for me;
> historically, the record-company either:
> a) wasn't like that, b) didn't see that option as cost-effective or c)
simply
> didn't have the dosh.
> (add'ly, for background: i've never been signed to a 'major', and none of
my
> recording deals have been 'long-term': thankfully!).

As business in general has gone towards an outsourced, consultant-oriented
method of working, I would suspect that the same is true of the music
companies.  They'd rather not have long term contracts with anyone unless
they "know" they're Guaranteed Platinum Artists, I'd think.  Would it be
unseemly to think then that the music biz - almost traditionally - would
seek to keep costs down and commitments to a minimum, by using people on
short-term or consulting contracts?  I don't know that the playing field has
been levelling out as much as it has been spreading out, in many ways out of
the controlling grasp of the Big Five.  The attacks upon home studio
operation and the technology used in them have gone on for years.  I recall
the situation in Studio City where an artist was running a studio out of his
home, and had enough space in a loop (there, that's not OT after all!) for
all the cars the folks who worked there used.  The artist's operation was
attemptedly shut down on the basis of it being an obstruction to the street
(which it wasn't), and I remember reading of attempts made to ticket the
cars in the driveway!  A complaint was made that a business was being run
from a home in a residential area - but there was no code against it.  There
was a failed attempt to have local code changed at this time, whereupon
there was a court case that exonerated the artist and his home studio.  I
think this was round 1982 or so, and I remember reading it in Musician as
well as Keyboard.

I suspect then that while the Big Five are perfectly happy to try to have
consultants/short-term contracts, they don't like the additionally
spreading-out effect that this is part of, or perhaps also amplifies.  While
it's a reflection of the actual market, it's also the one the music
companies are trying to keep from existing.  They can't have it both ways,
and ultimately as long as people are aware of their operations on this
level, independent artists will be able to pursue their interests freely.

> >as opposed to a most
> >artists - please remember that we have all been given a canvas to work
> >upon - broadcasting, which has been under a music biz stranglehold until
> >now - via the Internet.  Are you saying that taking this away from us
could
> >have a positive benefit for us?  Please elaborate (and I say this with
> >the most sincere interest in what you have to say).
>
> what i *did* try to say in *my* email was simply this:
> musical artists should get paid for what they do, with-or-without the
> internet.

No doubt there.  My apologies for knee-jerking again.  You don't deserve to
be lumped in like that.  Guilty as seen.

*****************

On another topic, I'm curious about what kind of fun stuff Tony Visconti was
doing this time around.  I remember the story from the "Heroes" sessions,
where that great cut-off reverb on DB's voice was done with a distant mic,
setup with a gate to be triggered at a given volume.  Were there things like
this being done on the latest sessions?

Stephen P. Goodman
EarthLight Productions
*
http://www.earthlight.net/Studios - The Free Loop of the Week!
http://www.earthlight.net/Gallery_Front.html - Cartoons!
http://www.earthlight.net/HiddenTrack.html - More Cartoons!

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 23 14:45:28 2002
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References: <EJELJMFCGOEBCMMEAHLIAELBEIAA.paul@nioterra.com>
Subject: Re: CARP Passed - This sucks!
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 20:43:58 +0200
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I only would be subject to SIAE payments if my music ends up on an Italian
server. Funny, don't you think?

Peace
Luigi
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Weissman" <paul@nioterra.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2002 12:44 AM
Subject: RE: CARP Passed - This sucks!


>
> > I (the sole owner of the rights on my compositions) want to put some of
MY
> > music (for free) on MY internet site, then I'll have to pay to
> > the SIAE (the
> > Italian rights organization) so that they collect the money and
> > then pay ME,
>
> wow!  that's crazy!
>
> what happens if you put your music up on a web site that's located in
> another country?  are you still subject to SIAE payments?
>
> how anyone hopes to geographically carve up the internet is beyond me...
>
>
> paul
>
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Luigi Meloni [mailto:Luigimeloni74@libero.it]
> > Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2002 12:21 PM
> > To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> > Subject: Re: CARP Passed - This sucks!
> >
> >
> > Another question. I am an Italian artist. I'm not affiliated
> > (obviously) to
> > BMI/ASCAP,  but have my rights protected by I.M.R.O. (the Irish rights
> > organization). My label has currently set up a radio station under
mp3.com
> > or emusic.com  (that are American), that transmits only our music. What
is
> > our position regarding this law? Do we have to pay RIAA for
> > something? Does
> > this all have a sense to anyone of you?
> >
> > We too in Italy have something similar to the CARP. The funny
> > thing is that
> > in Italy the situation is even more complex. To explain it in few
> > words, if
> > I (the sole owner of the rights on my compositions) want to put some of
MY
> > music (for free) on MY internet site, then I'll have to pay to
> > the SIAE (the
> > Italian rights organization) so that they collect the money and
> > then pay ME,
> > the artist,  the sum minus the 40% of what I had to pay (the 40 %
> > remains to
> > the SIAE for the expenses of collecting my money and giving it back to
> > me...). The funny thing is that I'm not affiliated to SIAE in any
> > way, since
> > I'm affiliate to the IMRO, but I'll have to pay the same. If my
> > compositions
> > were not copyrighted I would have to pay the same,  and the 100% of the
> > money would go to SIAE (and we are talking of quite some money).
> >
> > Peace
> > Luigi
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "matt davignon" <mattdavignon@hotmail.com>
> > To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2002 8:26 PM
> > Subject: re: CARP Passed - This sucks!
> >
> >
> > > Now here's a question:
> > >
> > > Can a streaming radio station exist by playing only songs of
consenting
> > > artists and labels who are not affiliated with BMI/ASCAP?
> > >
> > > There are enough good non-major-label artists who actually want their
> > music
> > > to be heard to fill a huge number of stations in any genre, and I'd
like
> > to
> > > think there's a large enough audience that would be interested
> > in hearing
> > > stuff that they don't already hear on the radio.
> > >
> > > I think the reason that the major labels made the effort to squash
> > internet
> > > radio is that they feared they would no longer have control of all the
> > > channels necessary to convince John Q. Average-American that the bands
> > > marketed by them are the only ones worth hearing. That's why they
didn't
> > > make effort to charge the same rate to broadcast radio stations. 95%
of
> > > broadcast radio stations exclusively play major-label material.
> > >
> > > Anyway, it would be nice if we could turn this into a case of the
majors
> > > shooting themselves in the foot. Wouldn't it be great if we said, "Ok,
> > well
> > > since you're being such an asshole about it, we'll only play music by
> > > artists/labels who are in it for the art and community from now on."
> > >
> > > Matt
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> > > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 23 14:56:14 2002
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Subject: Re:  Re: EDP Won't Play live reverse (using the PMC-10) in LoopIV
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>Well, I combined them, and then ran the feedback to 0.  Now, if I have a
>blank loop, I can play something and have it play back reversed one time (or
>more, with feedback higher, but I find it more effective if it doesn't
>repeat--kinda like Andre's Loopfeste opener).  Again, for those of you with
>the right MIDI pedal, that's:
>Multiply on string A (when you press down), and record, parameter, undo
>(when you release).  This assumes you have quantize off.

The answer is this:-
"In Loop4 when you end Multiply with Reverse (or any crossfunction) the 
Multiply
first continues until a time which is a whole number a cycles from
when the Multiply was started. Then the Mult ends and Reverse playback starts.
This is called Rounding. In Loop3 ending Mult with Reverse was Unrounded,
so reverse playback started as soon as the Reverse was initiated, and the loop
length was then redefined."

Actually, believe it or not, this is a good thing, as you can now
use crossfunctions and still keep the same cycle length.
Hitting Reverse a second time during the Mult now has the same
effect in Loop4 as just one press did in Loop3

To achieve instant reverse playback, 
hit Record at the beginning of the phrase, 
and Reverse (by your prefered method) at the end.
...a technique documented by Kim in the 
Loopers Delight EDP Tools of the Trade section.    



> There's also a "snipplets" trick in there that involves a very similar
>  sort of move, except that it's triggered by copying the loop via a
>  CNF-switchquant variation.  It's one of Andy Butler's brainchildren, as
>  I recall...  It should be in the manual, or Andy might be able to 
elaborate..
> .

SwitchQuant=Cnf
MoreLoops=more than one.

get your loop going.
hit Next

now hold down Mult for more than 400ms ( = LongMult)
as soon as you release the Mult button the section of
loop that you heard while holding it down starts repeating backwards
(having been copied to the next loop)

Matthias very kindly programmed this to compensate for
a Loop3 trick that wouldn't otherwise be easy to do in Loop4.

  
its page 29 in the manual.


please ask if this isn't clear, and I'll say it better
when I have more time


andy butler 


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 23 15:10:38 2002
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try ernie ball, model 6167 (i think).  super-sturdy, 
super-smooth, super-hip.  i would advise against 
getting the boss pedal for your application.  boss 
pedal (FV-50L) is small and plastic and not a very 
good pedal (imho).

-jim

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 23 15:47:56 2002
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Mark-
Because of this outburst, I'm cutting your salary 10%.
kim

At 09:35 AM 6/23/2002, Mark Sottilaro wrote:
>Oh man, I was in tears while reading this.  VERY FUNNY MR. MCALLISTER!
>
>But if I am LD's underpaid security guard... where's the money?  SHOW ME 
>THE MONEY!
>
>AHAH AHHHHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHA
>
>Mark Sottilaro
>

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 23 15:54:23 2002
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At 04:30 PM 6/22/2002, Gary Rouzer wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I installed my new Loop4 software two days ago but I've got a problem. 
>When I powered the EDP up, while holding the parameters button, the "Loop 
>4" never scrolled across. I waited for about 2 minutes. I emailed Shane at 
>Gibson but have not received a response yet.  I reinstalled the Loop3 but 
>now it doesn't work either. Any suggestions?
>
>     Gary


Since you bought the LoopIV software directly from Aurisis Research, it 
make a bit more sense to contact us directly when you had a problem 
installing it...

But anyway, if Bret's suggestions don't work it is possible that you 
somehow damaged something while installing the roms or opening up your 
Echoplex. To answer your other question, the "Loop4" begins scrolling 
immediately when you turn on the power. There is no delay. The fact that 
yours is now doing nothing on power up with both Loop4 and Loop3 roms 
indicates a hardware problem of some sort. Hopefully not serious, but you 
may want to carefully inspect things to see if anything obviously got 
damaged in the process. Send me a mail if you need more help with it or 
with getting in touch with Shane.

kim



______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 23 16:03:35 2002
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Subject: Re: Line6 Echo Pro
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Good review! this is the first I've noticed that
makes mention of  additional algorithms that
don't
appear in the stompbox. I didn't know this. Are
there really new types of echo in the echo pro? I
know the loop thing is 60 seconds as opposed to
20 but what is totally new? >>

As far as I can tell, the only one that's
different is the "Echo Platter" setting, which
mimics a Binson Echorec, which I believe was an
Italian made unit. This is what Pink Floyd used
on their early records. I remember reading that
it's the unit that was used on the bass on One Of
These Days, but I've also seen video footage of
the original lineup (yes, with Syd Barrett) in
the studio, and it looks like both Syd and Rick
Wright are also using Echorec units. Unless I
miss my guess, this means that the Echorec is
also what was used for the acid trip wipe out
effects heard on various live versions of Set The
Controls For The Heart Of The Sun and Saucerful
Of Secrets (including those that are in the Live
At Pompeii video). 

Now, how different the "Echo Platter" effect
sounds in comparison to the Tube Echo or Tape
Echo settings, I dunno. I have the DL-4, so I
don't have that setting. If I can remember, next
time I'm up at Sam Ash, I'll check and see if
they have an Echo Pro set up, and ask if I can
plug in. Then, I'll be able to give a better
answer. 

And from the photos I saw in the Guitar Player
review a few months back (which also mentioned
the Echo Platter algorithm), it looks like you
get a footswitch jack for doing doing the tempo
tap thing like the far right hand button on the
DL-4, and an input for plugging in an expression
pedal, and then some MIDI jacks. 

=====
May you never thirst!
The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris

"What do you get when you give a yo-yo to a flock of flamingos?"-James Earl Jones

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 23 16:39:27 2002
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I was in Vienna with all my gear, and everything went well, they had power converters at
all gigs, and i was careful to use ground lifts or balanced connections to house sound,
and everything worked well    .......     until  ........

at a studio, i went to get a MIDI clock from the studio's drum machine (which was on their
power)      and   BLAM!!!

it seems that my MIDI input did not have the ground pin lifted as I believe is supposed to
be the case 
-- 
                     ****        What's Charles Up to?      ****
                         http://www.voicenet.com/~ccohen
                  
 AOL IM= beepsandboops / YAHOO IM = beepsandboops2 / ICQ# 146166142

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Hi Valerie-


At 08:23 PM 6/21/2002, valerie wrote:
>A good explanation is here:
>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8271-2002May25.html


thanks for the article, that was interesting and helps me come up to speed 
a little on the whole thing.

But now I'm totally confused as to why musicians would be fighting this. As 
that article states, the existing situation with broadcast radio was that 
musicians and performers didn't get anything. We all got screwed there a 
long time ago, before any of us had an opportunity to do anything about it. 
Now, according to this article, there is new legislation in place that 
guarantees musicians and performers a chunk of the royalty in the case of 
new forms of broadcasting over the internet. Sounds like a victory to me. 
Finally musicians get some pay for all the work they do to bring money to 
somebody else.

So why fight against that? It doesn't make sense to me. It seems to me you 
should all be fighting to get the laws changed so royalties are also paid 
to musicians by the broadcast radio business as well. You achieved one 
victory with internet broadcasters, now march on to get another one. Am I 
missing something in all this?

Well, it does explain one thing to me. It sure is clear why musicians are 
always poor and getting screwed out of their rights. When somebody finally 
offers you something you fight against it? Please don't tell me you 
actually think the internet industry is on your side any more than the 
recording industry or the broadcast industry. They are all seeking to 
maximize their own profit, because this is capitalism. If you are not 
sticking up for yourself, they will ALL happily maximize it at your expense.


>Also, I've heard but have yet to confirm that the RIAA will be collecting 
>fees "on behalf" of artists and labels that are not RIAA members. Meaning
>that if I have a song that plays on somafm or any live365 stream (etc) the
>RIAA is collecting money for that song... and I highly doubt that I or any
>other small artist will see that money unless we go to the RIAA and demand
>it.
>-

Oh, the RIAA bit... I don't know much about them or why there is so much 
animosity towards them. (don't have much time to follow this stuff lately.) 
I remember a while back when they were fighting against sampling, which I 
thought was really idiotic. Is that it? Anyway, you are concerned that they 
will collect money on your behalf, but never pay you. The way I see it:

-if there was no requirement to collect money for you, you definitely never 
get paid. (as with broadcast radio)

- If there is a requirement to collect money, but no organization assigned 
to handle that, you probably never get paid. No money actually collected in 
an account to pay you with and nobody to hold accountable. good luck.

- If there is a requirement to collect money for you, and an organization 
assigned to do that (whether they are evil or not), and they actually do 
collect money, your chances of getting it are pretty good. that seems to be 
the situation you've achieved, congratulations!

If the RIAA collects the money and does not pay you, you have a good legal 
position to stand on. (as i understood from that article, based on digital 
millennium act or whatever.) That is the best position to be in, you have 
money collected, a legal right to it, and somebody to hold accountable. The 
obvious recourse would be a class action lawsuit against them to collect 
the money owed and ensure future money is paid. That would be pretty 
straightforward, I would think. You could also bring the problem to the 
attention of your congress person, and perhaps the law would be amended to 
correct whatever problems happen in practice, or the RIAA could be 
threatened with losing their position if they don't follow the rules. That 
might be slower, but never hurts.

kim


______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com

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At 10:11 PM 6/21/2002, Mark wrote:
>Hello Mr. Flint,
>
>I'm Herb Linkletter from the IIPA

haha, nice turn around Mark. But let me turn it around again. The fact that 
I run LD and it really does cost me a lot of money and I really do have to 
face that every day is exactly where I'm coming from. It's just business, 
and it's the real world. Webcasting is a business too. Your costs are going 
up? Well boo-hoo, get out there and bring in some more revenues. If you 
can't figure it out, and there's a real opportunity there, somebody else 
will figure it out and take over.

There are all sorts of costs associated with running a big internet site. 
Bandwidth, disk space, CPU cycles, networking services, equipment, labor, 
etc etc etc. It adds up quick. Every hit = $cost. A few years ago it was 
adding up to several hundred dollars per month for LD, totally out of my 
pocket. So I had to turn Looper's Delight into a business out of necessity, 
because it was unsustainable and getting bigger and bigger.

I had to learn a lot about internet businesses in the process. I had to 
figure out things like advertising and donations and t-shirt sales and 
banner rotations and such. I had to take serious steps to contain costs, 
like moving out of expensive web host operations and into having my own 
server co-located in a data center, and then renting space out to other sites.

I've steadily brought things in line to where I about break even on the 
monthly operating costs. I'm still way behind on covering the capital 
expenditures, so LD is a ways away from anything like "profitability". And 
I'm nowhere close to covering all the money I've sunk into this so far. All 
told, LD is still about $25,000 in the red, financed by me. Maybe I'll get 
that back someday, maybe not. As I see it, it's mainly up to me to deal 
with the reality of that. And I am dealing with it reasonably well, and I 
expect to have a self-sustaining operation out of it before too long.

For me, every mail sent to the LD list and every visitor to the LD web site 
already does equal some real calculatable cost. That's reality, the 
internet really isn't free. My job is to figure out how to make every email 
and page-view pay some similar amount back to cover that cost. So if a new 
cost came along for the business of Looper's Delight, like your fictional 
email publishing royalty, and your fictional Mr. Linkletter told me this:

>If this fee of .07 US per email (yes, even for "me too's") is too much of 
>a burden for you, I suggest you do a better marketing job and perhaps get 
>some real advertising to help you make up the revenue.  We notice the LD 
>site uses a lot of bandwidth, so obviously some people feel the 
>information is useful and by useful, we mean worth money.

well, he's exactly right.

In the real world, either I figure out how to cover that cost or I go out 
of business or I sell it to somebody who knows how to run things better 
than me. LD survives or it goes bye-bye, and it depends on how well I'm 
able to operate it as a business. I have to figure out a business plan to 
make it work, and I have to figure out a way to finance that plan until the 
revenues from the business cover the cost. That's what business is.

So yes, I absolutely agree. if the costs go up, I need to do a better job 
of bringing up the revenues as well. I can easily see that on LD I'm not 
doing all that great of a job with that, and with a better effort I could 
be doing a lot better. I can also take my experiences running medium sized 
internet sites and easily look at Live365 or other webcasters, and say 
exactly the same thing. They suck at making money off their web properties. 
They are probably a bunch of engineers or college kids or whatever, who are 
completely clueless about sales and marketing and business operations, 
fumbling around and trying to make it work out just like me. One big 
difference though: Broadcasting other people's music is obviously going to 
cost something, and they had to know that a long time ago because it's in 
the law. Just the details weren't clear. If they didn't plan for it, 
they're idiots. So now they know how much it costs. Great, stop crying, go 
plug the numbers into the business plan, figure out what you need to do to 
stay afloat, and go make it work. Most likely they already have that 
figured out.

Now if this were happening to LD, would I fight those added costs? Of 
course! Would I cynically manipulate all of you to fight on my side, even 
though it is not in your benefit? Better believe it! I would be telling you 
that all web communities like LD will be destroyed and the internet we know 
and love will be ruined forever, even if I knew it wasn't true? Yep! Would 
you fall for my BS? Apparently so. At the same time I would be doing all 
the planning and accounting in the background to figure out what needed to 
be done to make it work. Without even doing much homework, I can see 
options available to me that would allow LD to survive if a similar royalty 
were applied here. Would I tell you about any of that while I'm engaged in 
the fight? no.

So when all of these webcasters are crying and moaning that these new 
royalty rates are exorbitant and oppressive, I think they are full of crap. 
I just don't believe that story at all. They're not going out of business 
from it unless they just roll over and die without even trying. They just 
have to go figure out how to sell real advertising instead of "the museum 
of musical instruments" or whatever other pathetic ads I listen to all day 
on these stations. If they can't figure that out, then they will be going 
out of business anyway.

kim


______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com

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...or better with an Eventide Orville or DSp7500 that will allow you to 
do the same AND reverse it, shift it, sample it, dequantize it, distort 
it, and more....

Italoop ;-) 

> just caught this.....
> 
> petereinhorn@mac.com writes:
> >Can granular looping be used to imitate a sustain pedal (as the funct
ions
> >name implies] or, even better, a sostenuto pedal?
> w/the granular looping effect (as defined by kim) on the edp IV?
> well..... sort of, but w/audible bumps.
> (it's a useable sound, for me, but not what i guess yer trying to get 
at, 
> here).
> your best bet to achieve this effect might be with the 'reverb looping
' 
> capability of an (old) lexicon pcm70 (usually available for under $500
., 
> used) attached to a midi controller.
> hth.
> best,
> dt / splattercell
> 
> 

___________________________________________
Italo De Angelis
Preset Design Engineer - Audio Division
italo@eventide.com
EVENTIDE AUDIO CUSTOMERS SUPPORT
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eventidehelps/

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It's pretty sickening, the recent turn of events.
For an unbelievable wealth of information on the subject, check out
http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~willr/cb/sos/
There's even a handy tool on the "Take Action" page that walks you through
the quick and easy task of sending an email to your representative.
Although at this point I'm not sure how much good that is going to do.
I highly recomend the site and its accompanying email list if you're even
the slightest bit concerned about the direction the situation has recently
taken.  And I would think anyone who records music with even the slightest
bit of interest in exposing other human beings to that music should be
concerned right now.  The sort of ripple-effect ramifications of this thing
are quite frightening, and go even beyond webcasting itself.

Tardy


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Hi there!
I di 

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> > Sure. You focused on the convenience to the vendor, but it's also more
> > convenient to you. It costs you nothing to wander into Joe's Music to
> > try out that distortion box that you end up not liking. If you buy it
> > online and don't like it, you have to 1) pay for it up front, 2) pay
> > for the shipping, 3) wait a few days to get it, 4) keep it in pristine
> > condition while you try it to find you don't like it, 5) call up for an
> > RMA, 6) take it to the shipping vendor, 6) pay return shipping.
> >
> Yes, I agree there is more convienence in shopping locally which is
> why it's surprising many people go online to save $20...

These days, as a lot of the legitimate local stores are dropping their
prices to compete with the online offering, the >inconvenience< of shopping
locally is one of the more prominent factors of my doing most of my shopping
online. (Probably second only to the fact that I purchase as much as
possible used.)

They're never open, dammit! When will the numbskulls realize that stores
hours from 9-5 ( with a grudging 'till 8 on thursdays' ) is not when their
most desirable customers (i.e. ones with jobs, and cash to spare for toys)
are going to be able to pop in? I just drove by three places on my way to
work, looking for that "very last cable" that I need, and none of them were
open at all on sundays.

All week to practice, on a zillion guitars and no customers to bother you. I
gotta get me a guitar center job. It's a fight to find a time when I can be
around, and they deign to be available to sell stuff, whereas I'm at my
computer with a credit card, 5 days a week.

Jonathan

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In the latest installment of Goodman vs. Torn... ;)

"Stephen P. Goodman" wrote:
> > that seems a bit naive, stephen --- i am far from being 'embedded in the
> > music industry', though i do 'know people who know people'.
> > *-)
> 
> Okay, I knee-jerked.  Sorry.  End point is you've broken through the primary
> barriers to working as you do.  If one of them is being broadcast - and I
> don't think radio is anything other than a promotional medium to many
> folks - think of those who won't ever get heard if this draconian stuff gets
> finalized.  

A few thoughts:

You actually hit the nail on the head, Stephen, when you say that radio
isn't much other than a promotional medium.  It's an advertisement.  But
if you don't have anything to advertise in the first place, then how are
you going to profit?  

If you don't have gigs that you're playing, or
tangible merchandise (i.e. records/CDs/etc) that you're selling, then
you're effectively creating an advertisement for a product that doesn't
exist.  If we're talking about the issue of music as a significant
source of livelihood, then that's at least as important of an issue as
are broadcast royality rates and the like.

You keep making the point that Torn has "gotten an in"
or "broken through," but the point I'm trying to make is that those
opportunities were the result of consistently plugging away for many,
many years, just as they have been for any working musician I've ever
heard of.

Do you think the Zobo Fun Band or the gig with Don Cherry would have
happened if David had just been sitting around waiting for someone to
discover his music on an Internet radio stream?  Do you know what I
mean?  

It's a similar principle to what Kim is talking about in his posts:
getting attention, exposure, listeners, and all the rest is great.  But
traffic in and of itself doesn't mean you're making money.  Name
recognition in and of itself doesn't bring you money.  Having people dig
what you do in and of itself doesn't bring in money.

To me, it's a bit of a leftover idealism from the late '90s, and the
initial shock of an independent artist being able to get their music
heard more or less instantly by anyone in the world.  Well, that is
indeed a very cool and wonderful thing.  But as so many people have had
to learn, that does not automatically equate to any significant source
of livelihood.  

For that part, I think it still boils down to what Mike Watt so
eloquently referred to as being "The man in the van with the bass in his
hand!"  :)

> (I'm somewhat puzzled by the way at the recent Sony ads over here in the UK,
> that show the MD recorder/player, and how easy it is to rip your favorite
> tunes onto it.  Weirdly contradictory, don't you think?)

Much like blank audio cassettes used to be sold in major chain record
stores, with notices on their packaging that they were "Perfect for
dubbing CDs" due to their length and formulation!


> As business in general has gone towards an outsourced, consultant-oriented
> method of working, I would suspect that the same is true of the music
> companies.  They'd rather not have long term contracts with anyone unless
> they "know" they're Guaranteed Platinum Artists, I'd think.  Would it be
> unseemly to think then that the music biz - almost traditionally - would
> seek to keep costs down and commitments to a minimum, by using people on
> short-term or consulting contracts?  

It's actually in the interest of a record label to have artists on as
long-term of a contract as the artist is willing to sign, because it
means that the artists are essentially obligated to work with the labels
themselves.  The rationale here is that if a record label has a
one-record deal with an artist, then the artist can go and sign with any
other label after just one album.  

But if a label spends a lot of time and money promoting the artist to a
certain level of visibility and sales, then why would they want the
artist they've worked to "break" to be able to go off and sign with a
new label, which will then be able to capitalize on all the hard work
and money that the first label spent for the sake of turning the artist
into a viable act in the first place, you know?

It's much more in the interest of a label to sign an artist to a
long-term contract for this reason - especially since almost any such
deal will leave "options" on the side of the label, which is to say that
the label isn't necessarily obligated to make all of those records if
they don't want to... but the artist IS obligated to make the records if
the label picks up that option.

Yes, it's not the nicest position for a lot of artists to be in.  By the
same token, though, if you're a label, and you're going to spend the
hundreds of thousands (or millions) of dollars it generaly takes to
"break" an artist in the marketplace, aren't you going to want to see a
return on your investment?  

And the whole notion of a "guaranteed Platinum artist" is pretty sketchy
these days.  Look at Mariah Carey, who was dropped by Virgin Records
after only one album, which didn't measure up to the sales they were
expecting.  The initial signing fee, plus the "termination" fee, cost
Virgin millions and millions of dollars.

Anyway...

--Andre LaFosse
http://www.altruistmusic.com

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Hi there!
I did a lot of playing in Europe with 110v gear, all i had to do was buy a 
good quality transformer to plug in my power strip, it eventually melted 
after a couple of years of extensive use , you  can buy a backup just to be 
sure.
Best regards

Pietro

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From: Richard Zvonar <zvonar@zvonar.com>
Subject: Re: CARP passed- this sucks.
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Kim's arguments would be right on if we were all trying to make music 
that was commercially viable according to the prevailing tastes of 
the pop music market. This, however is not the case. Many (if not a 
majority) of us are making music that appeals to one or another of 
the many small "mini-markets" that are not served by either the major 
record companies or the major broadcasters and Webcasters. The CARP 
fee structure was based on an economic model of a major Webcaster 
(Yahoo, to be specific) and this doesn't take into account the 
economics of the minor Webcasters.

These minor players are in many cases deliberately small, without 
aspirations to achieve the scale of the Majors. They may not WANT to 
go after "real advertising" but as Kim points out, they probably 
won't survive without doing that.

So where does that leave the new Web-based music distribution scene? 
I foresee the music scene becoming even more bimodal than it already 
is. The "small" artists, the "small" record companies, and the 
"small" distribution companies will have to fly under the RIAA/CARP 
radar along with the "small" Webcasters, while only the biggest and 
most profitable of these entities will be able to exist within the 
CARP economic system. Missing from this scenario will be the 
medium-sized Webcasters who up to this point have been playing a mix 
of music; they won't be able to survive.

Probably the biggest problem with this situation is that artists, 
such as certain members of the looping scene, who might stand a 
chance of "crossing over" to capture part of the mainstream audience 
will now have a harder time doing so. The venues won't exist.


At 1:54 PM -0700 6/23/02, Kim Flint wrote:

>according to this article, there is new legislation in place that 
>guarantees musicians and performers a chunk of the royalty in the 
>case of new forms of broadcasting over the internet. Sounds like a 
>victory to me. Finally musicians get some pay for all the work they 
>do to bring money to somebody else.
>
>So why fight against that? It doesn't make sense to me. It seems to 
>me you should all be fighting to get the laws changed so royalties 
>are also paid to musicians by the broadcast radio business as well. 
>You achieved one victory with internet broadcasters, now march on to 
>get another one. Am I missing something in all this?
>
>Well, it does explain one thing to me. It sure is clear why 
>musicians are always poor and getting screwed out of their rights. 
>When somebody finally offers you something you fight against it?

At 2:18 PM -0700 6/23/02, Kim Flint wrote:

>So when all of these webcasters are crying and moaning that these 
>new royalty rates are exorbitant and oppressive, I think they are 
>full of crap. I just don't believe that story at all. They're not 
>going out of business from it unless they just roll over and die 
>without even trying. They just have to go figure out how to sell 
>real advertising instead of "the museum of musical instruments" or 
>whatever other pathetic ads I listen to all day on these stations. 
>If they can't figure that out, then they will be going out of 
>business anyway.


-- 

______________________________________________________________
Richard Zvonar, PhD
(818) 788-2202
http://www.zvonar.com
http://RZCybernetics.com
http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 23 18:42:47 2002
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Subject: ...and another review!! 
From: Steve Lawson <steve@steve-lawson.co.uk>
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here's the english translation of that italian review I posted a week or so
ago - I think he likes it... :o)

"A little less than a year ago we looked at the debut album by the talented
London-based bassist Steve Lawson, a disc which afforded an amazing variety
of perspectives from the instrument of a musician blessed with a keen
melodic sense and an innate propensity to experiment. Now Steve has shifted
focus, taking on a new challenge, together with pianist Jez Carr, based on a
series of spontaneous improvisations which, as the two musicians assure us
in the sleeve notes, have not been planned in any way, but were approached
as a conversation (hence the album¹s title). And the resulting feeling of
looseness is like that of a quiet chat over a coffee in which the most
diverse subjects are addressed, wandering from one point to the next
following a logical thread that only a dialogue can have. Barely murmured
phrases, sounds that rise up to emphasise certain points, whispers and
laughter, all skilfully evoked by Lawson¹s mellow bass and Carr¹s refined
jazzy piano, which over the sixty-five minutes bear witness to a rare
sensibility, together with an excellent training and a remarkable aptitude
for more extreme challenges. How can we extrapolate from these outlines
something that stands out against the rest when the whole is so close to
perfection and when everything is so magically balanced, so beautifully
ethereal? A disc that reinforces the idea of improvised music as one of the
highest musical forms, where the deepest secrets of the human heart surface,
allowing a pure approach founded on the innocence of the listener and
vulnerability of the musician to create an unrepeatable piece of magic, free
from restrictions, expectations and preconceptions. Magnificent! Allow
yourself to be involved in Conversations, which will free you from your
mortal remains for a little more than an hour and let your mind contemplate
the universe from a privileged viewpoint. You will not regret it. Available
from Pillow Mountain Records."

 - the review is from No Warning -
http://digilander.iol.it/anewland/nowarn.htm and the translation is by
Harvey Jessop. 

cheers

Steve 
www.steve-lawson.co.uk
www.pillowmountainrecords.co.uk 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 23 18:46:40 2002
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From: "Bill Fox" <billfox@fast.net>
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Subject: EMUSIC Playlist #274
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[ Best viewed using a fixed spacing font. ]

EMUSIC is an electronic, ambient, and space music show, that airs each Thursday
at 11:04 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and Bethlehem, PA and 93.9 FM in Easton,
PA and Phillipsburg, NJ.

                    Show #274                    June 20, 2002.


RECAP:
On this show, I continued the month-long focus on Amir Baghiri, who creates
ambient music laced with tribal, world, and industrial influences.  The
Featured CD at midnight was "Night," the third disc from "The Bluebox
Collection" on the Arya label.

The Ministry of Inside Things performed an on-air concert to whet your appetite
for their performance at the next event in the Soundscapes Concert Series on
June 22.

Amir Baghiri
http://wdiyfm.org/programs/emusic/playlists/2002/focus02.html#jun
MOIT at Soundscapes      http://www.tadream.net/soundscapes


PLAYLIST:

ARTIST                  TRACK                    ALBUM (label)
======================= ======================== ==============================
11:04 pm
Ministry of Inside Things live, on-air, in-studio concert

12:00 am
Interview with The Ministry of Inside Things
Amir Baghiri            Nightfall                Night (Arya)
Amir Baghiri            Crossroad of Darkness    Night (Arya)
Amir Baghiri            Midnight                 Night (Arya)
Amir Baghiri            Frozen Stars             Night (Arya)
Amir Baghiri            Creeping Fog             Night (Arya)
Amir Baghiri            Polar Lights             Night (Arya)
Amir Baghiri            Fear Never Sleeps        Night (Arya)
Amir Baghiri            The Small Hours          Night (Arya)
Amir Baghiri            Spilling Moonlight       Night (Arya)
Amir Baghiri            Touch the Deep           Night (Arya)

1:00 am

 * = exerpt
VA = Various Artists (compilation)


NEXT SHOW:
On the next EMUSIC, I'll conclude the month-long focus on Amir Baghiri.  The
Featured CD at Midnight will be "Sleep," the fourth and final disc from "The
Bluebox Collection" on the Arya label.

The vinyl show starter will be from the LP "Catharsis Volume 6."


Bill
===============================================================================
Host of EMUSIC, an electronic, ambient, and space  music  show.   Thursdays  at
11  pm  on  WDIY  88.1  FM,  Allentown  and Bethlehem and 93.9 FM in Easton and
Phillipsburg.  http://wdiyfm.org/programs/emusic
Host  of  the  AM/FM  show  on  WMUH  91.7  FM  every  other  Saturday at 6 am.
Email me before submiting music for airplay consideration.     billfox@fast.net
Radio Station Home Pages:   http://wdiyfm.org    http://www.muhlenberg.edu/wmuh
Personal site: http://www.users.fast.net/~billfox
To subscribe to the EMUSIC on WDIY list, go to
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/emusic-wdiy  and  click  on  [Join  This  Group!]
SOUNDSCAPES Concert Series: http://www.tadream.net/soundscapes

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 23 19:12:23 2002
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From: "Gary Rouzer" <gz3739@earthlink.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com,
        "Kim Flint" <kflint@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Re: Loop 4 Problem
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Kim,

Thanks for the info. I was hesitant about contacting Aurisis directly
because the website says that there is no tech support department and to
contact Gibson instead. Anyway, I thought I was very careful to install it
properly and nothing appears damaged. If I don't hear from Shane I'll
contact you again. Thanks.

	Gary


> [Original Message]
> From: Kim Flint <kflint@loopers-delight.com>
> To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
 > Date: 6/23/02 3:53:24 PM
> Subject: Re: Loop 4 Problem
>
> At 04:30 PM 6/22/2002, Gary Rouzer wrote:
> >Hi,
> >
> >I installed my new Loop4 software two days ago but I've got a problem. 
> >When I powered the EDP up, while holding the parameters button, the
"Loop 
> >4" never scrolled across. I waited for about 2 minutes. I emailed Shane
at 
> >Gibson but have not received a response yet.  I reinstalled the Loop3
but 
> >now it doesn't work either. Any suggestions?
> >
> >     Gary
> 
> 
> Since you bought the LoopIV software directly from Aurisis Research, it 
> make a bit more sense to contact us directly when you had a problem 
> installing it...
> 
> But anyway, if Bret's suggestions don't work it is possible that you 
> somehow damaged something while installing the roms or opening up your 
> Echoplex. To answer your other question, the "Loop4" begins scrolling 
> immediately when you turn on the power. There is no delay. The fact that 
> yours is now doing nothing on power up with both Loop4 and Loop3 roms 
> indicates a hardware problem of some sort. Hopefully not serious, but you 
> may want to carefully inspect things to see if anything obviously got 
> damaged in the process. Send me a mail if you need more help with it or 
> with getting in touch with Shane.
> 
> kim
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________________________________
> Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
> kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com



--- Gary Rouzer
--- gz3739@earthlink.net
--- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet.


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 23 19:14:14 2002
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Subject: Re: OT: CARP passed- this sucks.
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> So yes, I absolutely agree. if the costs go up, I need to do a better job
> of bringing up the revenues as well. I can easily see that on LD I'm not
> doing all that great of a job with that, and with a better effort I could
> be doing a lot better. I can also take my experiences running medium sized
> internet sites and easily look at Live365 or other webcasters, and say
> exactly the same thing. They suck at making money off their web
properties.
> They are probably a bunch of engineers or college kids or whatever, who
are
> completely clueless about sales and marketing and business operations,
> fumbling around and trying to make it work out just like me.

I don't think this is the complete story. They probably have scads of
marketers and MBA on board.

The fact of the matter is, making money off web properties is very, very,
very hard. I would say, without a specific resource that was compeling
enough to have people qualmless to pay cash straight up, pretty much
impossible (If people would be othewise willing to pay straight up for
something, then you have the leeway to incorporate whatever monetization
scheme you wish.) The only way that these places have been able to stay
alive so long was by 'apropriating' their content.

> difference though: Broadcasting other people's music is obviously going to
> cost something, and they had to know that a long time ago because it's in
> the law. Just the details weren't clear. If they didn't plan for it,
> they're idiots. So now they know how much it costs. Great, stop crying, go
> plug the numbers into the business plan, figure out what you need to do to
> stay afloat, and go make it work. Most likely they already have that
> figured out.
>

The big problem with all of this, from my perspective as a publishing
musician, listener, and that of the stations that I used to frequent (
monkeyradio.org , somafm.com , bassdrive.com etc, etc) is that the money
isn't staying in the system. If you stream music, you pay, and the money you
pay goes to the artists on the Billboard charts. If the money was coming
back to the artists who made the music in the first place, then there would
probably be some way of solving the issue. Perhaps artists could share their
revenues with the stations that broadcast their music, or sign off their
fees in exchange for air time. However, the way it's set up now, it's just
another mouth at the table, and bigger than all the others.

> Now if this were happening to LD, would I fight those added costs? Of
> course! Would I cynically manipulate all of you to fight on my side, even
> though it is not in your benefit? Better believe it! I would be telling
you
> that all web communities like LD will be destroyed and the internet we
know
> and love will be ruined forever, even if I knew it wasn't true? Yep! Would
> you fall for my BS? Apparently so. At the same time I would be doing all
> the planning and accounting in the background to figure out what needed to
> be done to make it work. Without even doing much homework, I can see
> options available to me that would allow LD to survive if a similar
royalty
> were applied here. Would I tell you about any of that while I'm engaged in
> the fight? no.
>
> So when all of these webcasters are crying and moaning that these new
> royalty rates are exorbitant and oppressive, I think they are full of
crap.
> I just don't believe that story at all. They're not going out of business
> from it unless they just roll over and die without even trying. They just
> have to go figure out how to sell real advertising instead of "the museum
> of musical instruments" or whatever other pathetic ads I listen to all day
> on these stations. If they can't figure that out, then they will be going
> out of business anyway.
>

I agree, they've been stealing just like everyone else. However, the problem
hasn't been fixed, just modified in favour of bigger fish. While it may
appear to be a step in the right direction, since fair play and the common
interest are not in the minds of anyone with cards at the table, I doubt
whether the upshot will benefit myself, either as a consumer or a producer.

>I've steadily brought things in line to where I about break even on the
>monthly operating costs. I'm still way behind on covering the capital
>expenditures, so LD is a ways away from anything like "profitability". And
>I'm nowhere close to covering all the money I've sunk into this so far. All
>told, LD is still about $25,000 in the red, financed by me. Maybe I'll get
>that back someday, maybe not. As I see it, it's mainly up to me to deal
>with the reality of that. And I am dealing with it reasonably well, and I
>expect to have a self-sustaining operation out of it before too long.
>

Damn!! My hats off to you sir for your amazing efforts. That's two miracles,
including the EDP. You've got one to go before sainthood, though I think
many here will disagree with me.

Jonathan

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Hi Gary,

Glad you got it worked out.

> I am still interested in hearing how others may achieve this effect--I know
> there a great many ways to skin this particular cat.

http://www.altruistmusic.com/EDP/2001.html

Scroll to the bottom of the page and see what's up my sleeve!

Andy's snipplets trick could be a fun way to do this too, especially in
conjunction with the "One-shot" Samplerstyle=One + NextLoop feature
(check page 18 of the manual).

I've been using Reverse with LoopIV since January, all over the place,
via DirectMIDI, the Parameter move, and the front panel Insert move. 
The only strangeness I encountered was after getting my PMC-10, and it
was just a question of finding the right sort of pedal mode and string
command to get the desired effect, but I did indeed get it.  Haven't had
any difficulties with it other than that.

--Andre LaFosse
The Echoplex Analysis Pages:
http://www.altruistmusic.com/EDP

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Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 16:51:14 -0700
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From: Kim Flint <kflint@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Re: CARP passed- this sucks.
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At 03:22 PM 6/23/2002, Richard Zvonar wrote:
>Kim's arguments would be right on if we were all trying to make music that 
>was commercially viable according to the prevailing tastes of the pop 
>music market. This, however is not the case.

of course. But I honestly can't understand why it makes a difference? Why 
specifically, would the situation be so much different for Richard Zvonar 
or Andre LaFosse vs major pop idols like U2 or David Torn?

Admittedly I haven't spent much time looking into this subject like some of 
you have, that's why I ask. I'm not getting it. But from what I've seen so 
far I can't understand all these arguments that the little guy is doomed. 
How do the numbers add up to that?


>Many (if not a majority) of us are making music that appeals to one or 
>another of the many small "mini-markets" that are not served by either the 
>major record companies or the major broadcasters and Webcasters. The CARP 
>fee structure was based on an economic model of a major Webcaster (Yahoo, 
>to be specific) and this doesn't take into account the economics of the 
>minor Webcasters.

This is the part I really don't get. How doesn't it meet the economics of 
small webcasters? If you are small, then your costs are lower. Scale 
revenues to meet them. I'm really not understanding why its a problem or 
how the CARP thing is so debilitating. I'm coming from a position of being 
a little guy in a big pool, as far as web publishing goes. I know exactly 
what the economics of it are like. I did a quick run of the CARP numbers as 
far as I understand them, and to me it doesn't add up to something that is 
unattainable, whether you are big or small.


>These minor players are in many cases deliberately small, without 
>aspirations to achieve the scale of the Majors. They may not WANT to go 
>after "real advertising" but as Kim points out, they probably won't 
>survive without doing that.

that's really the part that I say is nonsense. Being a small web publisher 
myself, I know exactly what it is all about to get advertising and other 
sources of income from your website. You are not going to get giant 
accounts with Coke and GM. But you can easily get ads that target whatever 
niche you've got, from smaller companies that are interested in that. Plus 
there are several quality ad networks that bind smaller sites together into 
a larger network and land larger ad accounts. Plus all sorts of other 
income streams you can create. The numbers I've seen for this just don't 
look like impossible numbers to me. So manage the situation and make it 
work. If you are seriously putting up a webcasting business already, it is 
going to cost you a significant amount of money anyways. Bandwidth is not 
free. No matter what you have to figure out how to address that cost with 
real revenues from real advertising. If you aren't willing to do that, then 
you shouldn't be in the pool.

The model of Live365 makes sense to me, and seems well suited to small 
artists. The have a large network of different "stations", all set up by 
any user who wants to set one up. Microscopic stations for obscure artists 
can plug right in there. Live365 then sells advertising across the whole 
network with everything pooled together. So the little guys just make up a 
piece of the big pie. Live365 obviously has a lot of people listening, so 
the market is there, and they should be able to attract reasonable 
advertising as a result. Yesterday I saw a budweiser ad on there, so I 
guess they are actually managing to figure out how to do that after all 
those pathetic MOMI ads.

kim



______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 23 21:46:35 2002
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From: Goddess <thefates@earthlink.net>
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  Thanks Mark, and everyone else who replied or will reply to this.
<smile>  I'll check on this this week, and see about  getting it taken care
 of if need be...  Thanks bunches...  

Smiles,

G-Girl

At 09:58 AM 6/23/02 -0700, you wrote:
>Huh, then I can't help you, but I'd search the archives if I were you.  
>A few others I think got defective units that had some noise problem, so 
>I'd check into that if I were you.  My unit seems very quiet.  Good luck.
>
>Mark Sottilaro
>
>On Saturday, June 22, 2002, at 11:00  AM, Goddess wrote:
>
>>   Hi Mark, I don't use a guitar amp at all.  -Just a reference 
>> amplifier.
>> So I run line level all the way from the preamp outs onward.
>>   Yes, I checked both the instrument input, with both the headphone out,
>> and main outs, and then also the main input and outputs.  The noise 
>> level
>> seems better with the main outs, but still really noticable.  -As i said
>> though, I think I can still work with it, but has this been an issue 
>> with
>> you or any other repeater owners?  if there's a problem, I'll just see
>> about getting it taken care of.  Thanks for your thoughts, and any other
>> ideas you might have would also be greatly appreciated.  Have an awesome
>> day!, K?
>>
>> Smiles,
>>
>> G-Girl
>>
>>
>>  At 11:51 PM 6/21/02 -0700, you wrote:
>>> Welcome back.
>>>
>>> You're issue with the Repeater is probably due to the fact that it's
>>> strictly a line level device in terms of it's outputs.  I've never
>>> really plugged a mic or instrument into it's front jack, but the output
>>> is HOT, and not designed to go into a high gain preamp, such as a 
>>> guitar
>>> amp.  It's best put in the (line level) effects loop of  your guitar
>>> amp, if you happen to have one.  If you can't work this way, there are
>>> devices on the market that convert line to instrument level, and back
>>> again.  This makes the Repeater a little tricky for guitar players,
>>> unless  you're like me, and your signal never really ends up at a
>>> traditional guitar amp.  (guitar-Digitech 2120 preamp-Repeater-mixer to
>>> a pair of Mackie 450s is how I have mine set up)
>>>
>>> good luck,
>>>
>>> Mark Sottilaro
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, June 21, 2002, at 11:35  PM, Goddess wrote:
>>>
>>>>   <smile>  I everyone, yes, it's me, returning at long last yet again,
>>>> from
>>>> the great beyond.  lol!
>>>>   Anyway, -wanted to say hello, and also have a REpeater question.
>>>> First
>>>> off, I absolutely LOVE IT!, but am finding that it's a bit noisy
>>>> compared
>>>> to my other gear.  I think I'll be able to manage just fine with it,
>>>> but am
>>>> just concerned whether or not it's working properly.  The noise I'm
>>>> getting
>>>> seems to be at about 120 or 130 hz or so, and is sort of a buzzy, 
>>>> hummy
>>>> processing noise, modulating ever so slightly.   lol!  -What  a
>>>> description!   lollollol!
>>>>   Anyway, It's not horrible, but is about 5 times  more prevalent than
>>>> my
>>>> other gear.  -But as I said, I think I can get sufficient level enough
>>>> so
>>>> it won't be a problem.  Is this normal?  Thanks for any ideas anyone
>>>> might
>>>> have, and nice to be back yet again...  lol!
>>>>
>>>> Smiles,
>>>>
>>>> G-Girl
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>>
>>>>   "The only things I really think are important, are love, and
>>>> eachother.
>>>> -Then, anything is possible..."
>>>>
>>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~thefates
>>>>
>>>> Please visit The Guitar Cafe.
>>>>
>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-guitar-cafe
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>>   "The only things I really think are important, are love, and 
>> eachother.
>> -Then, anything is possible..."
>>
>> http://home.earthlink.net/~thefates
>>
>> Please visit The Guitar Cafe.
>>
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-guitar-cafe
>>
>>
>
>


---

  "The only things I really think are important, are love, and eachother.
-Then, anything is possible..."  

http://home.earthlink.net/~thefates

Please visit The Guitar Cafe.  

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-guitar-cafe 


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Damn, if I'm making nothing now, that can only mean a cut would bring me 
into the negative numbers, which means I'll start having to pay for my 
wisenheimery!  I know, I'll pay you .07 cents US for each outburst!

Mark

On Sunday, June 23, 2002, at 12:47  PM, Kim Flint wrote:

> Mark-
> Because of this outburst, I'm cutting your salary 10%.
> kim
>
> At 09:35 AM 6/23/2002, Mark Sottilaro wrote:
>> Oh man, I was in tears while reading this.  VERY FUNNY MR. MCALLISTER!
>>
>> But if I am LD's underpaid security guard... where's the money?  SHOW 
>> ME THE MONEY!
>>
>> AHAH AHHHHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHA
>>
>> Mark Sottilaro
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
> kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com
>

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i seem to remember someone has one of these stereo preamps in their rig =
connected to a switchblade=20
how have they got it all connected ?

thanks

David Swain

www.onelessthannone.co.uk

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<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>i seem to remember someone has one of =
these=20
stereo preamps in their rig connected to a switchblade </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>how have they got it all connected =
?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>David Swain</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.onelessthannone.co.uk">www.onelessthannone.co.uk</A></=
FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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i seem to remember someone has one of these stereo preamps in their rig =
connected to a switchblade=20
how have they got it all connected ?

thanks

David Swain

www.onelessthannone.co.uk

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<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>i seem to remember someone has one of =
these=20
stereo preamps in their rig connected to a switchblade </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>how have they got it all connected =
?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>David Swain</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.onelessthannone.co.uk">www.onelessthannone.co.uk</A></=
FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Actually, 10% of zero is still zero, so at least you'll break even.

;)

Scott

Mark Sottilaro wrote:
> 
> Damn, if I'm making nothing now, that can only mean a cut would bring me
> into the negative numbers.

-- 
~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%
  Visit the the home of Hebephrenic, The Hot Buttered Elves, & Sunshine

                     http://www.tapehissrecordings.com

         and our sites at the world's largest online cut-out bin

                    http://mp3.com/hotbutteredelves
                      http://mp3.com/hebephrenica
                   http://mp3.com/sunshineallthetime
~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%

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From: "William R. Walker," <chillyb@cruzio.com>
Subject:  Re: Hi, it's me again... 
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 To add to what Mark said, definetly use it in an effects loop and a
parallel loop if possible. I run it through an effects send on my Mackie
mixer, and I definitely use the dry/mute function (hold stop and press the
overdub button to access) which will clean up that slightly phasey comb
filter sound you are hearing. Actually, if used properly the repeater has
more headroom and better sampling rate than anything else currently
available for dedicated looping. Just don't put it in line between your
guitar and an amp.
Enjoy
Bill


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 24 01:20:48 2002
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Subject: Re: alembic preamp
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 00:16:48 +0100
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that would be me...

ok, the output of the alembic is REALLY hot, so i built a =
divider/resistor to bring it down to a manageable level. =20

i'm only using one side of the preamp, although i may cascade them =
together (not coming out of the back and into the front again, but just =
like you'd cascade any 4-input amp: into input A, out of padded input A =
into input B) eventually.  so, since i'm only using A, that goes right =
into the switchblade and from there, the signal goes to any number of =
receptacles (eventide, edp, straight to power amp, etc.).  i plan on =
adding a bss parametric eq eventually, so i'll just go from the preamp =
to the eq and from the eq to switchblade so as not to unneccesarily take =
up valuable 'blade inputs.

any other questions?

-jim

------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C21B14.6E5F7240
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>that would be me...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>ok, the output of the alembic is REALLY hot, so i =
built a=20
divider/resistor to bring it down to a manageable level.&nbsp; =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>i'm only using one side of the preamp, although i =
may cascade=20
them together (not coming out of the back and into the front again, but =
just=20
like you'd cascade any 4-input amp: into input A, out of padded input A =
into=20
input B) eventually.&nbsp; so, since i'm only using A, that goes right =
into the=20
switchblade and from there, the signal goes to any number of receptacles =

(eventide, edp, straight to power amp, etc.).&nbsp; i plan on adding a =
bss=20
parametric eq eventually, so i'll just go from the preamp to the eq and =
from the=20
eq to switchblade so as not to unneccesarily take up valuable 'blade=20
inputs.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>any other questions?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>-jim</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C21B14.6E5F7240--


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 24 01:31:08 2002
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Subject: Re: OT: CARP passed- this sucks.
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From: Mark Sottilaro <sine@zerocrossing.net>
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On Sunday, June 23, 2002, at 02:18  PM, Kim Flint wrote:
> ...If you can't figure it out, and there's a real opportunity there, 
> somebody else will figure it out and take over.

I know that LD isn't free.  You donate your time and money to make it 
happen, and for that you should be hailed.  If there's a person on this 
list that thinks this happens because of little internet fairies in the 
middle of the night, you're very mistaken.  LD is a labor of love.  Not 
only yours, but all the time of the "artists" who contribute time and 
knowledge, which is what really give LD substance, like musicians give 
the RIAA substance.  It this case, it's clearly up to us to "donate" or 
skill.  I think musicians just need to start demanding a provision for 
internet radio play, which really isn't profoundly different than 
traditional radio, other than the fact that it may be easier to capture 
and distribute a stream of internet radio.  Others might argue that you 
can easily record music off the radio too, and that didn't seem to kill 
the record companies, but I don't want to get into that argument at this 
point.

What I was trying to illustrate was if this same thing happened to you, 
LD would die, or worse yet, get taken over by Time/AOL/Warner.

I guess my main issue isn't that the RIAA is trying to gather money for 
it's artists, that's actually a good thing.  It's just that I see the 
industry, and it looks very very lopsided to me.  It seems like 10% of 
the talent is making 99% of the money.  If SOMA FM gets charged .07 
cents to play one of my songs, and then Sting ends up with .02 cents of 
it, that's NOT OK with me.  Didn't the radio industry get in trouble for 
taking money to play songs?  So why was it good to have radio play 
artist's songs then, but not now?  I know why: BECAUSE IT ALL BOILS DOWN 
TO THE FACT THAT THEY CAN'T CONTROL IT THIS TIME.  There is is in a 
nutshell.  I don't think it's as much that they want to charge for 
music, but they want to control who get's played, and they can't do that 
on internet radio.

Mark Sottilaro

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 24 01:36:37 2002
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I'm sorry Jon, but that's a California thing.  The NYC area is a lot 
different in regards to retail of all kinds, and stores are just open a 
LOT more.

Mark Sottilaro

On Sunday, June 23, 2002, at 03:08  PM, Jonathan El-Bizri wrote:
>
> They're never open, dammit! When will the numbskulls realize that stores
> hours from 9-5 ( with a grudging 'till 8 on thursdays' ) is not when 
> their
> most desirable customers (i.e. ones with jobs, and cash to spare for 
> toys)
> are going to be able to pop in?

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 24 01:47:29 2002
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  Hi guys, just lemme' clear up, that I've never used it between a guitar
and an amp.  I always run stereo line level with  everything I use.  The
reason I'm  concerned is that it easily even outdoes my noisiest consumer
gear right now, so I'm a little suspicious I might have a defective one,
but we'll see...  
  Thanks again for all the replies, please feel free to send along any
other thoughts, even in light of this, it may just be that this is just a
noisier processor than I'm used to.  If that's the case than at least I
know...  Thanks bunches you guys ROCK!... 

Smiles,

G-Girl

At 09:24 PM 6/23/02 -0700, you wrote:
> To add to what Mark said, definetly use it in an effects loop and a
>parallel loop if possible. I run it through an effects send on my Mackie
>mixer, and I definitely use the dry/mute function (hold stop and press the
>overdub button to access) which will clean up that slightly phasey comb
>filter sound you are hearing. Actually, if used properly the repeater has
>more headroom and better sampling rate than anything else currently
>available for dedicated looping. Just don't put it in line between your
>guitar and an amp.
>Enjoy
>Bill
>
>
>


---

  "The only things I really think are important, are love, and eachother.
-Then, anything is possible..."  

http://home.earthlink.net/~thefates

Please visit The Guitar Cafe.  

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-guitar-cafe 


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 24 02:04:13 2002
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Well, it's that Eastern standard time thing. Phew! Am I glad I don't live on
the east coast and have to be at work at 5am every morning.

Jonathan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Sottilaro" <sine@zerocrossing.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2002 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: WOT Re: Mail Order vs local


> I'm sorry Jon, but that's a California thing.  The NYC area is a lot
> different in regards to retail of all kinds, and stores are just open a
> LOT more.
>
> Mark Sottilaro
>
> On Sunday, June 23, 2002, at 03:08  PM, Jonathan El-Bizri wrote:
> >
> > They're never open, dammit! When will the numbskulls realize that stores
> > hours from 9-5 ( with a grudging 'till 8 on thursdays' ) is not when
> > their
> > most desirable customers (i.e. ones with jobs, and cash to spare for
> > toys)
> > are going to be able to pop in?
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 24 03:01:33 2002
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Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 00:00:47 -0700
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From: Kim Flint <kflint@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Re: OT: CARP passed- this sucks.
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At 10:29 PM 6/23/2002, Mark Sottilaro wrote:
>What I was trying to illustrate was if this same thing happened to you, LD 
>would die, or worse yet, get taken over by Time/AOL/Warner.

and what I'm illustrating back is that I don't think so. If the same 
situation were applied here I see a variety of options and opportunities 
that I could use to make it work for LD. It might mean I have to work a bit 
more at it than I do now, but I definitely don't see that as an impossible 
situation.


>I guess my main issue isn't that the RIAA is trying to gather money for 
>it's artists, that's actually a good thing.  It's just that I see the 
>industry, and it looks very very lopsided to me.  It seems like 10% of the 
>talent is making 99% of the money.  If SOMA FM gets charged .07 cents to 
>play one of my songs, and then Sting ends up with .02 cents of it, that's 
>NOT OK with me.

That shouldn't be ok with you. Does the law say that Sting gets part of 
your money? I haven't read the law myself, but I really doubt it. If money 
is collected for you and owed to you, then go demand it. You wouldn't be 
the first person or the first set of laborers that had to scrap a bit to 
make sure you get paid your fair share. If the RIAA got themselves signed 
up to collect money for you, then it is their problem to see to it that you 
get paid your share. But if they don't pay you it is your problem to go 
stick up for yourself and protect your own rights to that money. Nobody is 
going to fight that battle for you, but if you ask me it seems like a 
pretty easy battle.

kim


______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com

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--Apple-Mail-1--648549977
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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	charset=ISO-8859-1;
	format=flowed

On the subject of volume pedals/preamps, is there such thing as a good=20=

panning pedal? I have an idea to record stereo on the Repeater, but=20
control the panning of the instrument in realtime with something like=20
this connected before the stereo inputs. This would then get me over the=20=

problem of the pan settings on the repeater being reset every time you=20=

delete a loop/move to a new one - and also prevent me from having to=20
purchase 4 roland volume pedals at the same time :)

Many thanks,


On Monday, June 24, 2002, at 12:47 PM, one less than none wrote:

> i seem to remember someone has one of these stereo preamps in their =
rig=20
> connected to a switchblade
> how have they got it all connected ?
> =A0
> thanks
> =A0
> David Swain
> =A0
> www.onelessthannone.co.uk
>
--
Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
http://www.solostring.com
stuart@solostring.com

--Apple-Mail-1--648549977
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/enriched;
	charset=ISO-8859-1

On the subject of volume pedals/preamps, is there such thing as a good
panning pedal? I have an idea to record stereo on the Repeater, but
control the panning of the instrument in realtime with something like
this connected before the stereo inputs. This would then get me over
the problem of the pan settings on the repeater being reset every time
you delete a loop/move to a new one - and also prevent me from having
to purchase 4 roland volume pedals at the same time :)


Many thanks,



On Monday, June 24, 2002, at 12:47 PM, one less than none wrote:


<excerpt><fontfamily><param>Verdana</param><smaller>i seem to remember
someone has one of these stereo preamps in their rig connected to a
switchblade</smaller></fontfamily>

<fontfamily><param>Verdana</param><smaller>how have they got it all
connected ?</smaller></fontfamily>

=A0

<fontfamily><param>Verdana</param><smaller>thanks</smaller></fontfamily>

=A0

<fontfamily><param>Verdana</param><smaller>David =
Swain</smaller></fontfamily>

=A0

=
<underline><fontfamily><param>Verdana</param><color><param>1999,1999,FFFF<=
/param><smaller>www.onelessthannone.co.uk</smaller></color></fontfamily></=
underline>


</excerpt>--=20

Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project

http://www.solostring.com

stuart@solostring.com=

--Apple-Mail-1--648549977--

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Welcome back!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Goddess" <thefates@earthlink.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 02:44 AM
Subject: Re: Hi, it's me again...


>   Thanks Mark, and everyone else who replied or will reply to this.
> <smile>  I'll check on this this week, and see about  getting it taken
care
>  of if need be...  Thanks bunches...
>
> Smiles,
>
> G-Girl
>
> At 09:58 AM 6/23/02 -0700, you wrote:
> >Huh, then I can't help you, but I'd search the archives if I were you.
> >A few others I think got defective units that had some noise problem, so
> >I'd check into that if I were you.  My unit seems very quiet.  Good luck.
> >
> >Mark Sottilaro
> >
> >On Saturday, June 22, 2002, at 11:00  AM, Goddess wrote:
> >
> >>   Hi Mark, I don't use a guitar amp at all.  -Just a reference
> >> amplifier.
> >> So I run line level all the way from the preamp outs onward.
> >>   Yes, I checked both the instrument input, with both the headphone
out,
> >> and main outs, and then also the main input and outputs.  The noise
> >> level
> >> seems better with the main outs, but still really noticable.  -As i
said
> >> though, I think I can still work with it, but has this been an issue
> >> with
> >> you or any other repeater owners?  if there's a problem, I'll just see
> >> about getting it taken care of.  Thanks for your thoughts, and any
other
> >> ideas you might have would also be greatly appreciated.  Have an
awesome
> >> day!, K?
> >>
> >> Smiles,
> >>
> >> G-Girl
> >>
> >>
> >>  At 11:51 PM 6/21/02 -0700, you wrote:
> >>> Welcome back.
> >>>
> >>> You're issue with the Repeater is probably due to the fact that it's
> >>> strictly a line level device in terms of it's outputs.  I've never
> >>> really plugged a mic or instrument into it's front jack, but the
output
> >>> is HOT, and not designed to go into a high gain preamp, such as a
> >>> guitar
> >>> amp.  It's best put in the (line level) effects loop of  your guitar
> >>> amp, if you happen to have one.  If you can't work this way, there are
> >>> devices on the market that convert line to instrument level, and back
> >>> again.  This makes the Repeater a little tricky for guitar players,
> >>> unless  you're like me, and your signal never really ends up at a
> >>> traditional guitar amp.  (guitar-Digitech 2120 preamp-Repeater-mixer
to
> >>> a pair of Mackie 450s is how I have mine set up)
> >>>
> >>> good luck,
> >>>
> >>> Mark Sottilaro
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Friday, June 21, 2002, at 11:35  PM, Goddess wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>   <smile>  I everyone, yes, it's me, returning at long last yet
again,
> >>>> from
> >>>> the great beyond.  lol!
> >>>>   Anyway, -wanted to say hello, and also have a REpeater question.
> >>>> First
> >>>> off, I absolutely LOVE IT!, but am finding that it's a bit noisy
> >>>> compared
> >>>> to my other gear.  I think I'll be able to manage just fine with it,
> >>>> but am
> >>>> just concerned whether or not it's working properly.  The noise I'm
> >>>> getting
> >>>> seems to be at about 120 or 130 hz or so, and is sort of a buzzy,
> >>>> hummy
> >>>> processing noise, modulating ever so slightly.   lol!  -What  a
> >>>> description!   lollollol!
> >>>>   Anyway, It's not horrible, but is about 5 times  more prevalent
than
> >>>> my
> >>>> other gear.  -But as I said, I think I can get sufficient level
enough
> >>>> so
> >>>> it won't be a problem.  Is this normal?  Thanks for any ideas anyone
> >>>> might
> >>>> have, and nice to be back yet again...  lol!
> >>>>
> >>>> Smiles,
> >>>>
> >>>> G-Girl
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ---
> >>>>
> >>>>   "The only things I really think are important, are love, and
> >>>> eachother.
> >>>> -Then, anything is possible..."
> >>>>
> >>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~thefates
> >>>>
> >>>> Please visit The Guitar Cafe.
> >>>>
> >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-guitar-cafe
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---
> >>
> >>   "The only things I really think are important, are love, and
> >> eachother.
> >> -Then, anything is possible..."
> >>
> >> http://home.earthlink.net/~thefates
> >>
> >> Please visit The Guitar Cafe.
> >>
> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-guitar-cafe
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> ---
>
>   "The only things I really think are important, are love, and eachother.
> -Then, anything is possible..."
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~thefates
>
> Please visit The Guitar Cafe.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-guitar-cafe
>
>
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 24 04:42:23 2002
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From: "Luigi Meloni" <Luigimeloni74@libero.it>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
References: <5.1.1.6.2.20020622014339.0206f9b0@loopers-delight.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20020623234259.0209d668@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Re: OT: CARP passed- this sucks.
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 10:40:26 +0200
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> >I guess my main issue isn't that the RIAA is trying to gather money for
> >it's artists, that's actually a good thing.  It's just that I see the
> >industry, and it looks very very lopsided to me.  It seems like 10% of
the
> >talent is making 99% of the money.  If SOMA FM gets charged .07 cents to
> >play one of my songs, and then Sting ends up with .02 cents of it, that's
> >NOT OK with me.
>
> That shouldn't be ok with you. Does the law say that Sting gets part of
> your money? I haven't read the law myself, but I really doubt it. If money
> is collected for you and owed to you, then go demand it. You wouldn't be
> the first person or the first set of laborers that had to scrap a bit to
> make sure you get paid your fair share. If the RIAA got themselves signed
> up to collect money for you, then it is their problem to see to it that
you
> get paid your share. But if they don't pay you it is your problem to go
> stick up for yourself and protect your own rights to that money. Nobody is
> going to fight that battle for you, but if you ask me it seems like a
> pretty easy battle.
>
> kim

---Just as long as you've got enough money to put up a legal battle against
RIAA.

Same situation here in Italy. The money collected by SIAE from discoteques
are in part paid to the 'emeriti' of the SIAE affiliates (i.e. as a bonus
since they are the most money producing acts). Many lawsuits have been done
(and are still pending) regarding this, but, since SIAE is in a position of
monopoly (it was a government organism  since the beginning and even if it
is not anymore it continues to be the only 'local' organization it can do
whatever it wants to- the last in the timeline... since the beginning of
year 2002 they changed their quote of rights (for the works of collecting
and distributing money in behalf of the artists) from 5% to 40%) none seems
to be able to make it work as it should.
That's the reason why I've become affiliated to IMRO, the Irish rights
organization. I want to use them to protect me against SIAE acts.

The real problem seems to me to be the two-years-back payments.
0.07 cents can seem to be a small amount of money, but multiply this for two
years of 'hypotetic' webcasting numbers and you come to some money.

Peace
Luigi



From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 24 04:50:09 2002
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From: "Luigi Meloni" <Luigimeloni74@libero.it>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
References: <00F3FB0A-8743-11D6-8336-0003934B4712@solostring.com>
Subject: Re: Panning pedal?
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 10:48:38 +0200
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Just sell your car and buy an Orville (better two). It can do backward =
panning and up'n'down panning, spiral panning too (oops I think the last =
one was a feature of the almighty againinator deluxe pro). It can even =
make your panning seem like the ones in the last Aguilera/Shakira/Spears =
success. Instant success with the 'do it all better' machine.

Or if you are a mere mortal like me, I think I saw a panning pedal made =
by George Dennis and one by Morley.

Just kiddin', Italo.:-):-):-)

Peace
Luigi
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Stuart Wyatt=20
  To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 9:21 AM
  Subject: Panning pedal?


  On the subject of volume pedals/preamps, is there such thing as a good =
panning pedal? I have an idea to record stereo on the Repeater, but =
control the panning of the instrument in realtime with something like =
this connected before the stereo inputs. This would then get me over the =
problem of the pan settings on the repeater being reset every time you =
delete a loop/move to a new one - and also prevent me from having to =
purchase 4 roland volume pedals at the same time :)

  Many thanks,


  On Monday, June 24, 2002, at 12:47 PM, one less than none wrote:


    i seem to remember someone has one of these stereo preamps in their =
rig connected to a switchblade
    how have they got it all connected ?
    =20
    thanks
    =20
    David Swain
    =20
    www.onelessthannone.co.uk


  --=20
  Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
  http://www.solostring.com
  stuart@solostring.com

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Just sell your car and buy an Orville =
(better two).=20
It can do backward panning and up'n'down panning, spiral panning too =
(oops I=20
think the last one was a feature of the almighty againinator deluxe =
pro). It can=20
even make your panning seem like the ones in the last =
Aguilera/Shakira/Spears=20
success. Instant success with the 'do it all better' =
machine.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Or if you are a mere mortal like me, I =
think I saw=20
a panning pedal made by George Dennis and one by Morley.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Just kiddin', =
Italo.:-):-):-)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Peace</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Luigi</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dstuart@solostring.com =
href=3D"mailto:stuart@solostring.com">Stuart=20
  Wyatt</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  title=3DLoopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@loope=
rs-delight.com</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, June 24, 2002 =
9:21 AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Panning pedal?</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>On the subject of volume pedals/preamps, is there such =
thing as=20
  a good panning pedal? I have an idea to record stereo on the Repeater, =
but=20
  control the panning of the instrument in realtime with something like =
this=20
  connected before the stereo inputs. This would then get me over the =
problem of=20
  the pan settings on the repeater being reset every time you delete a =
loop/move=20
  to a new one - and also prevent me from having to purchase 4 roland =
volume=20
  pedals at the same time :)<BR><BR>Many thanks,<BR><BR><BR>On Monday, =
June 24,=20
  2002, at 12:47 PM, one less than none wrote:<BR><BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE><?fontfamily><?param Verdana><?smaller>i seem to remember=20
    someone has one of these stereo preamps in their rig connected to a=20
    switchblade<?/smaller><?/fontfamily><BR><?fontfamily><?param =
Verdana><?smaller>how=20
    have they got it all connected =
?<?/smaller><?/fontfamily><BR>&nbsp;<BR><?fontfamily><?param =
Verdana><?smaller>thanks<?/smaller><?/fontfamily><BR>&nbsp;<BR><?fontfami=
ly><?param Verdana><?smaller>David=20
    Swain<?/smaller><?/fontfamily><BR>&nbsp;<BR><U><?fontfamily><?param =
Verdana><?color><?param =
1999,1999,FFFF><?smaller>www.onelessthannone.co.uk<?/smaller><?/color><?/=
fontfamily></U><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>--=20
  <BR>Stuart Wyatt - Solo String=20
  =
Project<BR>http://www.solostring.com<BR>stuart@solostring.com</BLOCKQUOTE=
></BODY></HTML>

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Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 03:03:15 -0700
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: Kim Flint <kflint@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Re: OT: CARP passed- this sucks.
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At 01:40 AM 6/24/2002, Luigi Meloni wrote:
> > >I guess my main issue isn't that the RIAA is trying to gather money for
> > >it's artists, that's actually a good thing.  It's just that I see the
> > >industry, and it looks very very lopsided to me.  It seems like 10% of
>the
> > >talent is making 99% of the money.  If SOMA FM gets charged .07 cents to
> > >play one of my songs, and then Sting ends up with .02 cents of it, that's
> > >NOT OK with me.
> >
> > That shouldn't be ok with you. Does the law say that Sting gets part of
> > your money? I haven't read the law myself, but I really doubt it. If money
> > is collected for you and owed to you, then go demand it. You wouldn't be
> > the first person or the first set of laborers that had to scrap a bit to
> > make sure you get paid your fair share. If the RIAA got themselves signed
> > up to collect money for you, then it is their problem to see to it that
>you
> > get paid your share. But if they don't pay you it is your problem to go
> > stick up for yourself and protect your own rights to that money. Nobody is
> > going to fight that battle for you, but if you ask me it seems like a
> > pretty easy battle.
> >
> > kim
>
>---Just as long as you've got enough money to put up a legal battle against
>RIAA.

actually, that's the easy part. Get a large enough group of people 
together, and hire a legal team on contingency. I've done that before, its 
very easy if you have a good case and there is money at stake. You don't 
have to be rich to fight for your rights. I won easily against much richer 
people than me, because we were right and they were wrong.

Assuming this payment thing ever even became a real problem, to me it 
sounds pretty straight forward to win. It wouldn't be hard to get good 
legal representation. Probably the issue would be settled really quickly 
since I can't even see how the RIAA could have any legal ground for not 
paying people in the first place. At this point, the whole idea that they 
won't pay people is just paranoid speculation anyway.


>The real problem seems to me to be the two-years-back payments.
>0.07 cents can seem to be a small amount of money, but multiply this for two
>years of 'hypotetic' webcasting numbers and you come to some money.

well sorry, but to me if a webcaster has been playing other people's music 
for years without paying them for it, they've got it coming to them. If 
they did that without any plan for how they would ultimately pay the bill, 
they're just stupid. This law was passed quite a while ago right? so it's 
not like they didn't have any warning.

But anyway, I still don't see what the big deal is. you got a big payment 
to make in order to keep your business? Don't have that much cash on hand? 
Is your business viable? Yes? Can you show a way to profitability that will 
ultimately pay that big bill off? Here's how that situation is handled 
every day in the real world: financing. Work up the business plan, go to 
the bank, get a loan.  If the bank doesn't believe you, find somebody else. 
Venture capitalists, angel investors, mortgage the house, Mom and Dad, 
whatever. Then roll up your sleeves and go to work to make your business 
pay for itself. That's what everybody else has to do, I don't see why the 
internet is any different.

kim


______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com

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Subject: Scofield loops too.
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 03:06:10 -0700
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I like the latest Sco album =93Uberjam=94 a lot- his rhythm guitarist =
uses
samples and loops on the record and there is some looping on Sco=92s =
part
as well-  I went to the Sco site and saw he had a Boomerang right in
front although he doesen=92t use it in this video-=20

=20

http://www.johnscofield.com/music.html

=20

Cliff

=20

http://www.om-studios.com <http://www.om-studios.com/>=20

=20


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<body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple>

<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I like the l</span></font><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font =
size=3D2
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>test Sco =
</span></font><font
 size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>lbum =
=93Uberj</span></font><font
 size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>m=94 </span></font><font
 size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> lot- his
rhythm guit</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
 font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>rist uses =
s</span></font><font
 size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>mples </span></font><font
 size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>nd loops on
the record </span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
 font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>nd there is some looping on =
Sco=92s
p</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
 font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>rt </span></font><font =
size=3D2
 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>s well- &nbsp;I
went to the Sco site </span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span
 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font =
size=3D2
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>nd =
s</span></font><font
 size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>w he h</span></font><font
 size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>d </span></font><font
 size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Boomer</span></font><font
 size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>ng right in
front </span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
 font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>lthough he doesen=92t use =
it in
this video- </span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><a =
href=3D"http://www.johnscofield.com/music.html">http://www.johnscofield.c=
om/music.html</a></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Cliff</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><a =
href=3D"http://www.om-studios.com/">http://www.om-studios.com</a></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

</div>

</body>

</html>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 24 06:26:55 2002
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Subject: Re: Hi, it's me again... 
From: Stan Card <stanitarium@earthlink.net>
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so ahhh, wot's yer setup/signalchain look like,fer instance...
jus' wonderin
stan

> Hi guys, just lemme' clear up, that I've never used it between a guitar
> and an amp.  I always run stereo line level with  everything I use.  The
> reason I'm  concerned is that it easily even outdoes my noisiest consumer
> gear right now, so I'm a little suspicious I might have a defective one,
> but we'll see... 
> Thanks again for all the replies, please feel free to send along any
> other thoughts, even in light of this, it may just be that this is just a
> noisier processor than I'm used to.  If that's the case than at least I
> know...  Thanks bunches you guys ROCK!...
> 
> Smiles,
> 
> G-Girl

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Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 03:37:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Tidwell <wedgehed@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: OT: CARP passed- this sucks.
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--- Kim Flint <kflint@loopers-delight.com> wrote:
> Then roll up your sleeves and go to work
> to make your business pay for itself. That's what
> everybody else has to do, I don't see why the 
> internet is any different.


but what about the kids maaannn, what about the kids??
????????????????????????????????????????????????????

i'll bet your purple hair dye comes from kathy lee
gifford cosmetics.....DOESN'T IT?!?!?!?!?

well, HERR FLINT (if that's your real name), we know
all about you & your "south american" contacts. we
all saw THE BOYS FROM BRAZIL!!!!!!

:)

John




=====
John Tidwell




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 24 07:17:12 2002
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Hi everyone. Do you know a way to connect an EDP and a Jam Man to make 
them start recording simultaneously using only one footpedal (or MIDI 
message ecc.)?
Filippo

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 24 07:21:01 2002
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References: <DAV32PEhGD1XyCTr9rf00001351@hotmail.com> <003901c21b0c$0db5a200$09f8c440@g0wn7>
Subject: Re: alembic preamp
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 12:19:03 -0700
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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nope, i was just wondering if you had multilplr einputs and outputs in =
the switchblade for cascading=20
thanks
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Jimmy Fowler=20
  To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2002 4:16 PM
  Subject: Re: alembic preamp


  that would be me...

  ok, the output of the alembic is REALLY hot, so i built a =
divider/resistor to bring it down to a manageable level. =20

  i'm only using one side of the preamp, although i may cascade them =
together (not coming out of the back and into the front again, but just =
like you'd cascade any 4-input amp: into input A, out of padded input A =
into input B) eventually.  so, since i'm only using A, that goes right =
into the switchblade and from there, the signal goes to any number of =
receptacles (eventide, edp, straight to power amp, etc.).  i plan on =
adding a bss parametric eq eventually, so i'll just go from the preamp =
to the eq and from the eq to switchblade so as not to unneccesarily take =
up valuable 'blade inputs.

  any other questions?

  -jim

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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>nope, i was just wondering if you had =
multilplr=20
einputs and outputs in the switchblade for cascading </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>thanks</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Djimfowler@prodigy.net =
href=3D"mailto:jimfowler@prodigy.net">Jimmy=20
  Fowler</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  title=3DLoopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@loope=
rs-delight.com</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, June 23, 2002 =
4:16 PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: alembic =
preamp</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>that would be me...</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>ok, the output of the alembic is REALLY hot, so i =
built a=20
  divider/resistor to bring it down to a manageable level.&nbsp; =
</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>i'm only using one side of the preamp, although i =
may=20
  cascade them together (not coming out of the back and into the front =
again,=20
  but just like you'd cascade any 4-input amp: into input A, out of =
padded input=20
  A into input B) eventually.&nbsp; so, since i'm only using A, that =
goes right=20
  into the switchblade and from there, the signal goes to any number of=20
  receptacles (eventide, edp, straight to power amp, etc.).&nbsp; i plan =
on=20
  adding a bss parametric eq eventually, so i'll just go from the preamp =
to the=20
  eq and from the eq to switchblade so as not to unneccesarily take up =
valuable=20
  'blade inputs.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>any other questions?</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>-jim</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 24 08:20:59 2002
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Subject: Who Are The Commies?
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 02 08:16:33 -0400
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Thanks to Kim and Andre and DT for making sense out of this nonsense. 
It's amazing to me how quickly a small dose of economic reality turns 
into the end of the world here on the internet. Here's the thing: 
internet webcasters have not been paying for the music they've played. 
Now they have to. This is bad?

Andre wrote:

>It's a similar principle to what Kim is talking about in his posts:
>getting attention, exposure, listeners, and all the rest is great.  But
>traffic in and of itself doesn't mean you're making money.  Name
>recognition in and of itself doesn't bring you money.  Having people dig
>what you do in and of itself doesn't bring in money.

This is correct. Very. Trust me, I know this from experience, and several 
hundreds of thousands of dollars lost on a label that I started because 
of the possibilities that the internet offered. The problem is that there 
is a persistant mentality on the web that everything oughtta be free. 
Well guess what: it's not. It costs real money to make, market and 
distribute a record. It's not just the buck and a half it costs to 
duplicate them.

Also: in an exchange between Richard and Kim:

>>Many (if not a majority) of us are making music that appeals to one or 
>>another of the many small "mini-markets" that are not served by either the 
>>major record companies or the major broadcasters and Webcasters. The CARP 
>>fee structure was based on an economic model of a major Webcaster (Yahoo, 
>>to be specific) and this doesn't take into account the economics of the 
>>minor Webcasters.
>
>This is the part I really don't get. How doesn't it meet the economics of 
>small webcasters? If you are small, then your costs are lower. Scale 
>revenues to meet them. I'm really not understanding why its a problem or 
>how the CARP thing is so debilitating. I'm coming from a position of being 
>a little guy in a big pool, as far as web publishing goes. I know exactly 
>what the economics of it are like. I did a quick run of the CARP numbers as 
>far as I understand them, and to me it doesn't add up to something that is 
>unattainable, whether you are big or small.

Someone here suggested starting a web radio station that would play 
nothing but independent music, no labels, no bmi/ascap people. Go for it. 
Don't let the laughter from the bank stop you. Do us all a favor, though, 
and tell us how much money you lose every year. 

It's really simple: either you're in business, or you're not. If you 
don't care about making money from your music, that's fine. That's your 
call. But does that mean that DT shouldn't be trying to earn a living and 
put his two kids through college? If you broadcast his music, of course 
you should pay a fee. 

The RIAA are not commies. The commies are the people here who don't think 
making a profit is a good thing. The people who believe that all music 
should be given out for free. 

Internet broadcasting will survive just fine with an additional fee of 
.07 cents per song. If a broadcaster goes down in flames it will be 
because they didn't have a proper business plan to begin with. 

jd

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 24 08:25:08 2002
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From: "Luigi Meloni" <Luigimeloni74@libero.it>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
References: <5.1.1.6.2.20020622014339.0206f9b0@loopers-delight.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20020623234259.0209d668@loopers-delight.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20020624022230.0208a818@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Re: OT: CARP passed- this sucks.
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 14:24:02 +0200
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Ok. Look it that way: I'm a very small label. To have a little exposure of
the products of my label (i.e. I've got licenses from all the artists/owners
of the rights of the 'songs') I decide to put up a small non-commercial
webcasting radio. Now here it comes the CARP and tells me that I have to pay
them for songs that are 'mine or administered by me' to get the
artists/label paid. What it's all about? If I have the legal rights to
exploit my own work, why should I pay someone else to exploit it and then
pay me minus a %?

Think of it. You sell a cd (of your music, created, arranged and recorded by
you). You get the money (minus the taxes, obviously). It seems quite simple.
Then comes authority X that decides arbitrarily that to sell the cd you have
to use authority Y to receive the money.
Authority Y wants to get paid for the service of gathering money for you.
There it goes that you get the money minus the price of the service
authority Y gives you (and then minus the taxes). Not that simple anymore,
right?
Another passage. Authority X decides that you have to pay authority Y for
the past two years of servicing you (even if it really didn't) and you
should be happy, because they are doing it for you (not against you) - heck,
in the end you'll get money from them, no?

This seems like something the ex-president of SIAE told in a conference.
"Free music doesn't exist. If someone wants to give his music for free he
has enough money and therefore he has the money to pay SIAE (put CARP, it
sounds the same) or he has something illegal behind it." - In other words...
If I want to stream my OWN music for free on my own web-radio station I have
to pay CARP so that they'll gather money in behalf of me and they'll give
them back to the author (ME) minus a percentual for their work of gathering
money.

At least it seems like this to me (and in Italy it actually IS like this),
from a quick read to the CARP.

Peace
Luigi
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kim Flint" <kflint@loopers-delight.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 12:03 PM
Subject: Re: OT: CARP passed- this sucks.


> At 01:40 AM 6/24/2002, Luigi Meloni wrote:
> > > >I guess my main issue isn't that the RIAA is trying to gather money
for
> > > >it's artists, that's actually a good thing.  It's just that I see the
> > > >industry, and it looks very very lopsided to me.  It seems like 10%
of
> >the
> > > >talent is making 99% of the money.  If SOMA FM gets charged .07 cents
to
> > > >play one of my songs, and then Sting ends up with .02 cents of it,
that's
> > > >NOT OK with me.
> > >
> > > That shouldn't be ok with you. Does the law say that Sting gets part
of
> > > your money? I haven't read the law myself, but I really doubt it. If
money
> > > is collected for you and owed to you, then go demand it. You wouldn't
be
> > > the first person or the first set of laborers that had to scrap a bit
to
> > > make sure you get paid your fair share. If the RIAA got themselves
signed
> > > up to collect money for you, then it is their problem to see to it
that
> >you
> > > get paid your share. But if they don't pay you it is your problem to
go
> > > stick up for yourself and protect your own rights to that money.
Nobody is
> > > going to fight that battle for you, but if you ask me it seems like a
> > > pretty easy battle.
> > >
> > > kim
> >
> >---Just as long as you've got enough money to put up a legal battle
against
> >RIAA.
>
> actually, that's the easy part. Get a large enough group of people
> together, and hire a legal team on contingency. I've done that before, its
> very easy if you have a good case and there is money at stake. You don't
> have to be rich to fight for your rights. I won easily against much richer
> people than me, because we were right and they were wrong.
>
> Assuming this payment thing ever even became a real problem, to me it
> sounds pretty straight forward to win. It wouldn't be hard to get good
> legal representation. Probably the issue would be settled really quickly
> since I can't even see how the RIAA could have any legal ground for not
> paying people in the first place. At this point, the whole idea that they
> won't pay people is just paranoid speculation anyway.
>
>
> >The real problem seems to me to be the two-years-back payments.
> >0.07 cents can seem to be a small amount of money, but multiply this for
two
> >years of 'hypotetic' webcasting numbers and you come to some money.
>
> well sorry, but to me if a webcaster has been playing other people's music
> for years without paying them for it, they've got it coming to them. If
> they did that without any plan for how they would ultimately pay the bill,
> they're just stupid. This law was passed quite a while ago right? so it's
> not like they didn't have any warning.
>
> But anyway, I still don't see what the big deal is. you got a big payment
> to make in order to keep your business? Don't have that much cash on hand?
> Is your business viable? Yes? Can you show a way to profitability that
will
> ultimately pay that big bill off? Here's how that situation is handled
> every day in the real world: financing. Work up the business plan, go to
> the bank, get a loan.  If the bank doesn't believe you, find somebody
else.
> Venture capitalists, angel investors, mortgage the house, Mom and Dad,
> whatever. Then roll up your sleeves and go to work to make your business
> pay for itself. That's what everybody else has to do, I don't see why the
> internet is any different.
>
> kim
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
> kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com
>
>


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 24 08:59:30 2002
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From: "Luigi Meloni" <Luigimeloni74@libero.it>
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References: <20020624121906.GENQ10417.sccrmhc02.attbi.com@[192.168.1.100]>
Subject: Re: Who Are The Commies?
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 14:57:36 +0200
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I am a commy...:-) And proud of it, seeing where right wing parties brought
us to in recent history... But that has nothing to do with music and loops.
And I don't absolutely think that it is bad that artists get paid for what
they create and for their work. Else I wouldn't be one. All I think is that
Artists should get paid, not corporate powers (and CARP and RIAA don't work
for glory, but for their income, look it one way or another). But if an
Artist, one time or another, wants to give some of his music for free he
should be able to do it without having to deal with corporate powers.
Heck, in Italy we have to pay the rights organization even if we do some
free concert playing our own music (we'll get the money back in a year or
two minus 40%, so, basically, we pay to play for free).

Now get back to looping stuff, please.

RIAA and CARP will do whatever they want to even if we continue this talk ad
libitum.

Peace
Luigi

----- Original Message -----
From: "jdurant" <jdurant@alchemyrecords.com>
To: "Loopers-Delight" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 2:16 PM
Subject: Who Are The Commies?


> Thanks to Kim and Andre and DT for making sense out of this nonsense.
> It's amazing to me how quickly a small dose of economic reality turns
> into the end of the world here on the internet. Here's the thing:
> internet webcasters have not been paying for the music they've played.
> Now they have to. This is bad?
>
> Andre wrote:
>
> >It's a similar principle to what Kim is talking about in his posts:
> >getting attention, exposure, listeners, and all the rest is great.  But
> >traffic in and of itself doesn't mean you're making money.  Name
> >recognition in and of itself doesn't bring you money.  Having people dig
> >what you do in and of itself doesn't bring in money.
>
> This is correct. Very. Trust me, I know this from experience, and several
> hundreds of thousands of dollars lost on a label that I started because
> of the possibilities that the internet offered. The problem is that there
> is a persistant mentality on the web that everything oughtta be free.
> Well guess what: it's not. It costs real money to make, market and
> distribute a record. It's not just the buck and a half it costs to
> duplicate them.
>
> Also: in an exchange between Richard and Kim:
>
> >>Many (if not a majority) of us are making music that appeals to one or
> >>another of the many small "mini-markets" that are not served by either
the
> >>major record companies or the major broadcasters and Webcasters. The
CARP
> >>fee structure was based on an economic model of a major Webcaster
(Yahoo,
> >>to be specific) and this doesn't take into account the economics of the
> >>minor Webcasters.
> >
> >This is the part I really don't get. How doesn't it meet the economics of
> >small webcasters? If you are small, then your costs are lower. Scale
> >revenues to meet them. I'm really not understanding why its a problem or
> >how the CARP thing is so debilitating. I'm coming from a position of
being
> >a little guy in a big pool, as far as web publishing goes. I know exactly
> >what the economics of it are like. I did a quick run of the CARP numbers
as
> >far as I understand them, and to me it doesn't add up to something that
is
> >unattainable, whether you are big or small.
>
> Someone here suggested starting a web radio station that would play
> nothing but independent music, no labels, no bmi/ascap people. Go for it.
> Don't let the laughter from the bank stop you. Do us all a favor, though,
> and tell us how much money you lose every year.
>
> It's really simple: either you're in business, or you're not. If you
> don't care about making money from your music, that's fine. That's your
> call. But does that mean that DT shouldn't be trying to earn a living and
> put his two kids through college? If you broadcast his music, of course
> you should pay a fee.
>
> The RIAA are not commies. The commies are the people here who don't think
> making a profit is a good thing. The people who believe that all music
> should be given out for free.
>
> Internet broadcasting will survive just fine with an additional fee of
> .07 cents per song. If a broadcaster goes down in flames it will be
> because they didn't have a proper business plan to begin with.
>
> jd
>
>


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 24 09:06:18 2002
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Subject: Re: OT: CARP passed- this sucks.
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 14:04:28 +0100
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Thanks Luigi.

Some folks forget that this struggle against the RIAA isn't as much about
webcasting as it is about access, and true competition.  The Big Five, as
ridiculous as it sounds, is trying to prevent that competition from
occurring much less gaining a foothold on what it considers THEIR business.

Think of this metaphor.  One sees an anthill and the residents of it around.
One steps on it, at least temporarily decimating the anthill, and killing
quite a number of ants.  However, the vast majority still remain, and will
rebuild, and will regain the status they all had before one put their foot
into the anthill.  It's obvious this process of 'spreading-out' of the
so-called "home recording" market isn't going to reverse itself, bring back
a Golden Age for the Big Five.

But what if you're one of the ants that was crushed?  Unless you believe in
reincarnation, you're basically eliminated from the picture.

I have absolutely, positively NO ARGUMENT with the idea that we all get paid
for the work we create, record, etc.  But I sincerely believe that the Big
Five have so repeatedly abused their role in managing careers and especially
the money involved, that someone else needs to have the chance to do so.
The RIAA efforts in this and many other cases have an aim that cannot be
seen as anything other than anti-competitive - possibly even covered by RICO
(anti-racketeering) legislation.  So while the RIAA and their pals all put
forward this argument about how being against this royalty structure is
"anti-musician", I believe the entire premise is disingenuous at best, and I
don't believe anyone can come up with evidence to the contrary.

And Kim, thank you for this forum in which we may discuss and otherwise
argue about this and other issues.  In an RIAA-controlled Internet, we might
not even have that.

Stephen P. Goodman
EarthLight Productions
*
http://www.earthlight.net/Studios - The Free Loop of the Week!
http://www.earthlight.net/Gallery_Front.html - Cartoons!
http://www.earthlight.net/HiddenTrack.html - More Cartoons!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Luigi Meloni" <Luigimeloni74@libero.it>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 13:24 PM
Subject: Re: OT: CARP passed- this sucks.


> Ok. Look it that way: I'm a very small label. To have a little exposure of
> the products of my label (i.e. I've got licenses from all the
artists/owners
> of the rights of the 'songs') I decide to put up a small non-commercial
> webcasting radio. Now here it comes the CARP and tells me that I have to
pay
> them for songs that are 'mine or administered by me' to get the
> artists/label paid. What it's all about? If I have the legal rights to
> exploit my own work, why should I pay someone else to exploit it and then
> pay me minus a %?
>
> Think of it. You sell a cd (of your music, created, arranged and recorded
by
> you). You get the money (minus the taxes, obviously). It seems quite
simple.
> Then comes authority X that decides arbitrarily that to sell the cd you
have
> to use authority Y to receive the money.
> Authority Y wants to get paid for the service of gathering money for you.
> There it goes that you get the money minus the price of the service
> authority Y gives you (and then minus the taxes). Not that simple anymore,
> right?
> Another passage. Authority X decides that you have to pay authority Y for
> the past two years of servicing you (even if it really didn't) and you
> should be happy, because they are doing it for you (not against you) -
heck,
> in the end you'll get money from them, no?
>
> This seems like something the ex-president of SIAE told in a conference.
> "Free music doesn't exist. If someone wants to give his music for free he
> has enough money and therefore he has the money to pay SIAE (put CARP, it
> sounds the same) or he has something illegal behind it." - In other
words...
> If I want to stream my OWN music for free on my own web-radio station I
have
> to pay CARP so that they'll gather money in behalf of me and they'll give
> them back to the author (ME) minus a percentual for their work of
gathering
> money.
>
> At least it seems like this to me (and in Italy it actually IS like this),
> from a quick read to the CARP.
>
> Peace
> Luigi
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kim Flint" <kflint@loopers-delight.com>
> To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 12:03 PM
> Subject: Re: OT: CARP passed- this sucks.
>
>
> > At 01:40 AM 6/24/2002, Luigi Meloni wrote:
> > > > >I guess my main issue isn't that the RIAA is trying to gather money
> for
> > > > >it's artists, that's actually a good thing.  It's just that I see
the
> > > > >industry, and it looks very very lopsided to me.  It seems like 10%
> of
> > >the
> > > > >talent is making 99% of the money.  If SOMA FM gets charged .07
cents
> to
> > > > >play one of my songs, and then Sting ends up with .02 cents of it,
> that's
> > > > >NOT OK with me.
> > > >
> > > > That shouldn't be ok with you. Does the law say that Sting gets part
> of
> > > > your money? I haven't read the law myself, but I really doubt it. If
> money
> > > > is collected for you and owed to you, then go demand it. You
wouldn't
> be
> > > > the first person or the first set of laborers that had to scrap a
bit
> to
> > > > make sure you get paid your fair share. If the RIAA got themselves
> signed
> > > > up to collect money for you, then it is their problem to see to it
> that
> > >you
> > > > get paid your share. But if they don't pay you it is your problem to
> go
> > > > stick up for yourself and protect your own rights to that money.
> Nobody is
> > > > going to fight that battle for you, but if you ask me it seems like
a
> > > > pretty easy battle.
> > > >
> > > > kim
> > >
> > >---Just as long as you've got enough money to put up a legal battle
> against
> > >RIAA.
> >
> > actually, that's the easy part. Get a large enough group of people
> > together, and hire a legal team on contingency. I've done that before,
its
> > very easy if you have a good case and there is money at stake. You don't
> > have to be rich to fight for your rights. I won easily against much
richer
> > people than me, because we were right and they were wrong.
> >
> > Assuming this payment thing ever even became a real problem, to me it
> > sounds pretty straight forward to win. It wouldn't be hard to get good
> > legal representation. Probably the issue would be settled really quickly
> > since I can't even see how the RIAA could have any legal ground for not
> > paying people in the first place. At this point, the whole idea that
they
> > won't pay people is just paranoid speculation anyway.
> >
> >
> > >The real problem seems to me to be the two-years-back payments.
> > >0.07 cents can seem to be a small amount of money, but multiply this
for
> two
> > >years of 'hypotetic' webcasting numbers and you come to some money.
> >
> > well sorry, but to me if a webcaster has been playing other people's
music
> > for years without paying them for it, they've got it coming to them. If
> > they did that without any plan for how they would ultimately pay the
bill,
> > they're just stupid. This law was passed quite a while ago right? so
it's
> > not like they didn't have any warning.
> >
> > But anyway, I still don't see what the big deal is. you got a big
payment
> > to make in order to keep your business? Don't have that much cash on
hand?
> > Is your business viable? Yes? Can you show a way to profitability that
> will
> > ultimately pay that big bill off? Here's how that situation is handled
> > every day in the real world: financing. Work up the business plan, go to
> > the bank, get a loan.  If the bank doesn't believe you, find somebody
> else.
> > Venture capitalists, angel investors, mortgage the house, Mom and Dad,
> > whatever. Then roll up your sleeves and go to work to make your business
> > pay for itself. That's what everybody else has to do, I don't see why
the
> > internet is any different.
> >
> > kim
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> > Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
> > kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>

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Subject: SV: OT: CARP passed- this sucks.
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 15:05:36 +0200
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> Från: Luigi Meloni [mailto:Luigimeloni74@libero.it]

> If I want to stream my OWN music for free on my own web-radio
> station I have
> to pay CARP so that they'll gather money in behalf of me and they'll give
> them back to the author (ME) minus a percentual for their work of
> gathering money.


I do agree that this could go for "a bummer". I would just like to post some
short notes on how these matters is handled here in Sweden.

Here we also have a strong authority, STIM, that does the job of billing all
kind of "music users" and then spreading the money out to the "music
owners" - the composers. According to the law a composer owns his creations
and should be compensated when his music is being used. Swedish radio
stations have always been paying licensing fees for music played on air and
this year we have also seen the first price list, by STIM, for Internet
radio stations that stream music.

But there is one exception - If you only send out your own music (that you
still possess) and if you have the full editing and managing rights for your
web site, you don't have to pay for licensing your own music.

BTW not only composers are compensated here. Even players in possession of
"neighboring rights" get compensated, but on a smaller scale. These players
can be a record label that owns a particular sound recording or musicians
that played on that recording.

Another OT: As a musician and composer you have to join the relevant
organization to get your money. But every year there is a lot of money
coming in for which they dont know where to send the money, since not all
usage of music can be tracked to the appropriate rightsholder. In Sweden
this money left over is given away each year to young and talented musicians
and composers in the form of scholarships.

All the best

Per Boysen
www.boysen.se
____________________________________________________________
http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=p_boy

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Hi. I've had the same problem with the repeater of a friend of mine. He just
got it from another member of looper's delight. (How are you Luca?) and he
phoned me about dealing with the high noise floor of the repeater. We took
it to my home-studio and I tried it between my pre and my mixer. No noise. I
tried then to put it in one of the send/return loops of the mixer. Still no
noise. Back to his home I tried it with his instruments. The noise was there
and it was high. (He too uses it with a pre and a power-amp. No mixer). Then
I saw on the link I'm sending you one possible solution to manage the
problem.

http://www.electrixpro.com/support/faq.html

Look under the section 'My Repeater seems really noisy. Why?'. We tried to
mod the cables like this and the problem was solved. In my studio theproblem
didn't show up because I use all my instruments set to +4 db and with
balanced cables. He used it with a -10db output preamp and directly into the
power amp, other fx in the fx-loop of his pre.

Just try this. It is a possibility.

Peace
Luigi

----- Original Message -----
From: "Goddess" <thefates@earthlink.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 7:46 AM
Subject: Re: Hi, it's me again...


>   Hi guys, just lemme' clear up, that I've never used it between a guitar
> and an amp.  I always run stereo line level with  everything I use.  The
> reason I'm  concerned is that it easily even outdoes my noisiest consumer
> gear right now, so I'm a little suspicious I might have a defective one,
> but we'll see...
>   Thanks again for all the replies, please feel free to send along any
> other thoughts, even in light of this, it may just be that this is just a
> noisier processor than I'm used to.  If that's the case than at least I
> know...  Thanks bunches you guys ROCK!...
>
> Smiles,
>
> G-Girl
>
> At 09:24 PM 6/23/02 -0700, you wrote:
> > To add to what Mark said, definetly use it in an effects loop and a
> >parallel loop if possible. I run it through an effects send on my Mackie
> >mixer, and I definitely use the dry/mute function (hold stop and press
the
> >overdub button to access) which will clean up that slightly phasey comb
> >filter sound you are hearing. Actually, if used properly the repeater has
> >more headroom and better sampling rate than anything else currently
> >available for dedicated looping. Just don't put it in line between your
> >guitar and an amp.
> >Enjoy
> >Bill
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ---
>
>   "The only things I really think are important, are love, and eachother.
> -Then, anything is possible..."
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~thefates
>
> Please visit The Guitar Cafe.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-guitar-cafe
>
>


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 24 09:36:11 2002
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Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 14:34:53 +0100
Subject: tube preamp for sale
From: Steve Lawson <steve@steve-lawson.co.uk>
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If after all this talk of tube preamps, any of you UK people are interested
in one, I've got an SWR Interstellar Overdrive for sale - 1U rack, great
sound, lovely distortion and clean sound as well, retails at about £800,
sensible offers to me, please...

I used to run it in the FX loop of my G2 for overdrive sounds, but can't
really justify the weight in my rack at the moment...

cheers

Steve 
www.steve-lawson.co.uk 

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Subject: Re: OT: CARP passed- this sucks.
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 10:06:06 -0400
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen P. Goodman" <spgoodman@earthlight.net>
> Well, it might not be as bad as it could have been - but it just goes to
> show that Democracy has this one single problem.  It requires participation.
> Thanks for those of you who took the trouble to contact their
> congressman/senator about this.  Shame on the rest, alas, but if you feel
> remorse at this unfortunately late point, get in touch with your
> congressman/senator to voice your disappointment and concerns.
> http://www.copyright.gov/carp/webcasting_rates_final.html
>
> Stephen P. Goodman
> EarthLight Productions

Thank you Stephen for the kick in the pants.  Here is what I just sent to the
Library of Congress:
=====================
Dear Mr. Billington,

Shame on you for pandering to the big record companies.  By treating internet
radio differently than over-the-air radio, you are doing a disservice to the
American public.  Internet radio is NOT file sharing and provides the exposure
small artists need that Clear Channel (and that ilk) will never provide.

Those of us who contrate their listening on non-mainstream genres of music no
longer have a place to go to hear what we want.  You have just put our stations
out of business.  And that statement would remain true even if you didn't have
that rediculous grandfather clause that requires payments for broadcasts since
1998.

Shame on you for ignoring the small, independant musicians in your decision.

Sincerely,

Bill Fox

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 24 10:19:19 2002
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Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 10:17:36 EDT
Subject: Re: sync_EDP_&_JM?
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> Hi everyone. Do you know a way to connect an EDP and a Jam Man to make 
>  them start recording simultaneously using only one footpedal (or MIDI 
>  message ecc.)?
>  Filippo

1) program a MIDI controller to send each unit the command it wants.
    (the JamMan will start a little late though, it doesn't respond very fast 
to
        midi)

2) any footswitch can be used with a Y-connector, that should work.
(If it doesn't  you'll need a 2-pole switch.)

then Midi-sync the 2 units, probably best to try JamMan as master 
first.

didn't you ask before and no-one answered?

andy butler 

 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 24 10:51:54 2002
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Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 10:48:59 EDT
Subject: Re: Panning pedal?
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Stuart,

In a message dated 6/24/02 12:22:26 AM, stuart@solostring.com writes:

>On the subject of volume pedals/preamps, is there such thing as a good
>panning pedal? I have an idea to record stereo on the Repeater, but 
>control the panning of the instrument in realtime with something like 
>this connected before the stereo inputs. This would then get me over the
>problem of the pan settings on the repeater being reset every time you
>delete a loop/move to a new one - and also prevent me from having to 
>purchase 4 roland volume pedals at the same time :)

A long time ago I used to use a Morley Panning/Volume pedal (it could 
switch between either mode with a simple footswitch). Very useful.
But it was bulky . . . one of those big, old chome behemoths . . . built
like a tank and nearly as heavy. I think they're still making something 
like it (only smaller and painted black these days) maybe not. They
can't be too expensive used fi you can find one. Very reliable too.

FWIW, now I have a bank of 4 very generic Roland/Boss EV-5 control 
voltage pedals. 2 of them control the "morphing" on my 2 Lexicon
Vortexes . . . but depending on the preset I'm in on my preamp/
multi-effect box (in my case an ancient, ugly ART SGX-2000 
Express . . . yes one of the ones with the stoopid pink paint job) 
either of the 2 remaining EV-5s can be a panning pedal . . . or a volume 
pedal . . . or a wah, wah . . . or a "wammy" pedal . . . at any time 
that I want one. Or, it can control the mod rate on a chorus . . .
the regen/feedback on a delay or flanger . . . the wet/dry mix on a 
reverb or an outboard effects send . . . you get the idea.

If you have a MIDI capable multi-effector some where in the chain
take a look at the rest of your setup and see if there is some place 
on some device in the chain where you can get CV access and MIDI 
control can enter the picture. In my case it was via an old  Roland 
GR-1 guitar synth which has 2 ports for "expression" pedals. Or
much simpler, do it with MIDI to begin with from any one of a number 
of expression pedal equipped MIDI pedalboards available.

Sorry for rambling on . . .

Ted Killian

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 24 11:13:31 2002
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I'm afraid I don't have alot of the background and finer points of this
discussion, but I feel a rant coming on...

My favorite internet radio station has already succumbed.  

Isn't his whole fee paradigm based on the assertion that internet radio
is a digital copy of the source? The unprecedented rates charged the
broadcaster is because it is a digital medium and the RETROACTIVE nature
of the charges which will be presented to the providers will drive
smaller internet broadcasting outfits and college radis OFF THE AIR. 
Personally I think the sound quality SUCKS - I have yet to hear an MP3
that has the sonic character of the original recording.  Streaming
audio?  HAHAHAHAHA.  This is not a digital copy of the source.  If I
like something I hear on the internet - I buy the material (from the
ARTIST, if possible).

The government seems to be carving up the internet to the advantage of
the mega-corporations, just as it did with the *formerly* public
frequency bands that comprise radio and TV airwaves. This is as big a
theft as I can imagine.

I see this as another power-grab (not just a money grab, which any MBA
would advise their employer to run with).  The US legislation is
ANTI-COMPETITIVE, and designed to monopolize the medium.  Fees or no
fees, this is bad for art.  The record companies have been sucking the
life out of artists since they positioned themselves between the artists
and the public in the 1950's.  They're not there to 'publish' music,
they're there to RESTRICT what you hear so that particular artists can
generate revenue streams -for the record companies.

And please don't say that a musician/artist needs to sell T-shirts to
develop a revenue stream - that's just capitulating to those that want
to control what types of music get heard on the internet, and whose
clients are played in each genre.  
For me, the potential power of the internet is to BREAK DOWN the
stranglehold of the record companies.  I am not suggesting that artists
that can hustle and get their music out there should not be paid.  I
was/am very uncomfortable with the whole file-sharing thing and think
that is was essentially a shameful ripoff of the artists.  EXCEPT for
the artists that were willing to put examples of their work out there to
develop a fan base. 

I have to believe a new fee-based paradigm can be developed.  A mix of
fee-based play and free-based (hmmmmm - that doesn't sound quite right).

Yes I wrote both my state senators BEFORE the legislation was passed. I
expect that I'll try to find out if they voted in the peoples' interest,
and I do intend to hold them accountable.

Sorry about the length/tone of this outburst.  I'm ready to get back to
looping.

Dan Ash

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Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 09:40:04 -0700
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From: Dave Trenkel <improv@peak.org>
Subject: Re: Hi, it's me again...
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>   Hi guys, just lemme' clear up, that I've never used it between a guitar
>and an amp.  I always run stereo line level with  everything I use.  The
>reason I'm  concerned is that it easily even outdoes my noisiest consumer
>gear right now, so I'm a little suspicious I might have a defective one,
>but we'll see... 
>   Thanks again for all the replies, please feel free to send along any
>other thoughts, even in light of this, it may just be that this is just a
>noisier processor than I'm used to.  If that's the case than at least I
>know...  Thanks bunches you guys ROCK!...
>
>Smiles,
>
>G-Girl

Have you checked the "Phono/Line" switch on the back panel of the 
Repeater? I was having serious noise problems, exactly like you 
described, with mine, and it was driving me nuts. I carefully 
rechecked the gain, replaced the CFC card, everything, and the noise 
was still there. Finally, I found mention of the Phono switch on 
Electrix's user forum and checked it, sure enough, in repatching, I'd 
accidentally hit the switch, it's right next to the jacks, so it's 
really too easy to hit. Setting it to line cleared up all my noise 
problems, and left me feeling pretty stupid...
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Trenkel                                New and Improv Music
http://www.newandimprov.com         improv@peak.org
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 24 12:55:18 2002
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From: "Stephen P. Goodman" <spgoodman@earthlight.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
References: <20020621222612.70183.qmail@web21305.mail.yahoo.com> <002801c21974$16d42da0$0801a8c0@vz.dsl.genuity.net> <004a01c21978$5cb91ac0$0201a8c0@eluk> <026d01c21b88$49a2bf60$c7e65cd1@LocalHost>
Subject: Re: OT: CARP passed- this sucks.
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 17:53:56 +0100
Organization: EarthLight Productions
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Ash" <danash@attglobal.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 16:04 PM
Subject: Re: OT: CARP passed- this sucks.


> I'm afraid I don't have alot of the background and finer points of this
> discussion, but I feel a rant coming on...
>
> My favorite internet radio station has already succumbed.
>
> Isn't his whole fee paradigm based on the assertion that internet radio
> is a digital copy of the source? The unprecedented rates charged the
> broadcaster is because it is a digital medium and the RETROACTIVE nature
> of the charges which will be presented to the providers will drive
> smaller internet broadcasting outfits and college radis OFF THE AIR.
> Personally I think the sound quality SUCKS - I have yet to hear an MP3
> that has the sonic character of the original recording.  Streaming
> audio?  HAHAHAHAHA.  This is not a digital copy of the source.  If I
> like something I hear on the internet - I buy the material (from the
> ARTIST, if possible).
>
> The government seems to be carving up the internet to the advantage of
> the mega-corporations, just as it did with the *formerly* public
> frequency bands that comprise radio and TV airwaves. This is as big a
> theft as I can imagine.
>
> I see this as another power-grab (not just a money grab, which any MBA
> would advise their employer to run with).  The US legislation is
> ANTI-COMPETITIVE, and designed to monopolize the medium.  Fees or no
> fees, this is bad for art.  The record companies have been sucking the
> life out of artists since they positioned themselves between the artists
> and the public in the 1950's.  They're not there to 'publish' music,
> they're there to RESTRICT what you hear so that particular artists can
> generate revenue streams -for the record companies.
>
> And please don't say that a musician/artist needs to sell T-shirts to
> develop a revenue stream - that's just capitulating to those that want
> to control what types of music get heard on the internet, and whose
> clients are played in each genre.
> For me, the potential power of the internet is to BREAK DOWN the
> stranglehold of the record companies.  I am not suggesting that artists
> that can hustle and get their music out there should not be paid.  I
> was/am very uncomfortable with the whole file-sharing thing and think
> that is was essentially a shameful ripoff of the artists.  EXCEPT for
> the artists that were willing to put examples of their work out there to
> develop a fan base.
>
> I have to believe a new fee-based paradigm can be developed.  A mix of
> fee-based play and free-based (hmmmmm - that doesn't sound quite right).
>
> Yes I wrote both my state senators BEFORE the legislation was passed. I
> expect that I'll try to find out if they voted in the peoples' interest,
> and I do intend to hold them accountable.
>
> Sorry about the length/tone of this outburst.  I'm ready to get back to
> looping.

You've paraphrased something I lamented about but didn't post here some time
ago:

Someday if we don't watch out, "Freedom" will just be "Feedom".  And that
awful bit about having the gold, and making the rules, will actually be more
than a grousing statement.  But that's darker than I think it is right now.
I think your webcaster may have had more considerations than just the
royalty fees, unless they've had a visit from the RIAA themselves... for
instance, a lot of companies all over the world used 9-11 as an excuse to
lay off employees - oh, excuse me, "downsize" - and for the most part I
think they were called on it in public.  One example being British Airways.
Try to find out from your webcaster if there's more to the story.  Or let me
know and I'll follow up.

Stephen P. Goodman
EarthLight Productions
*
http://www.earthlight.net/Studios - The Free Loop of the Week!
http://www.earthlight.net/Gallery_Front.html - Cartoons!
http://www.earthlight.net/HiddenTrack.html - More Cartoons!


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 24 12:59:40 2002
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Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 10:53:22 -0600
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From: Goddess <thefates@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Hi, it's me again...
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 Thanks Dave, and also to everyone else who replied.  I'll write more
either  later this evening, or tomorrow.  I'm on my way out to teach soon,
and then going out tonight.  <smile>  Lemme' just say I've set the line
switch properly, and yes, when it's not set properly the noise level is
quite insane!   lol!  -and I'm also heading up to check out the Electrix
support link to read the faq.  Thanks a bunch to all of you for the help.
As usual, if anyone thinks of anything else, I'd ttotally love to hear it.
Thanks so much!...  Have a wonderful day!...  

Smiles,

G-Girl

At 09:40 AM 6/24/02 -0700, you wrote:
>>   Hi guys, just lemme' clear up, that I've never used it between a guitar
>>and an amp.  I always run stereo line level with  everything I use.  The
>>reason I'm  concerned is that it easily even outdoes my noisiest consumer
>>gear right now, so I'm a little suspicious I might have a defective one,
>>but we'll see... 
>>   Thanks again for all the replies, please feel free to send along any
>>other thoughts, even in light of this, it may just be that this is just a
>>noisier processor than I'm used to.  If that's the case than at least I
>>know...  Thanks bunches you guys ROCK!...
>>
>>Smiles,
>>
>>G-Girl
>
>Have you checked the "Phono/Line" switch on the back panel of the 
>Repeater? I was having serious noise problems, exactly like you 
>described, with mine, and it was driving me nuts. I carefully 
>rechecked the gain, replaced the CFC card, everything, and the noise 
>was still there. Finally, I found mention of the Phono switch on 
>Electrix's user forum and checked it, sure enough, in repatching, I'd 
>accidentally hit the switch, it's right next to the jacks, so it's 
>really too easy to hit. Setting it to line cleared up all my noise 
>problems, and left me feeling pretty stupid...
>-- 
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Dave Trenkel                                New and Improv Music
>http://www.newandimprov.com         improv@peak.org
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>


---

  "The only things I really think are important, are love, and eachother.
-Then, anything is possible..."  

http://home.earthlink.net/~thefates

Please visit The Guitar Cafe.  

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-guitar-cafe 


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 24 13:24:44 2002
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From: Goddess <thefates@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Hi, it's me again...
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  OK, back for another quickie...  I read the faq, and it still doesn't
seem to quite be addressing the same issue I seem to be having.  This is
not ordinary hiss or hum or buzz.  Someone else here described it quite
well as being thin, papery and comb filtery.  It seems to be at about 120
to 130 hz or so, and fluctuates as a pitch shifter would when it can't
quite settle on the correct note.  It also seems to be dependant on the
input side of things rather than the output, regardless of whether there's
any signal going into it at all.    It also reminds me of the lower
frequencies of when  a tube is going bad, how it sort of whines unsteadily
and sounds really pathetic!  lol!  -but instead of a higher pitched whine,
as might happen in most cases, it's a lower pitched one, as is sometimes
the case.  Anyway,  <smile>   -If all that makes sense to anyone and they
are aware of what's going on, *looks extra extra extra cute*  please please
please let me know...   <smile>  I may see about getting a replacement for
this one anyway today.  We'll see.  Anyway, bye for now, have an awesome
day!, K?  

Laters,

G-Girl

At 10:53 AM 6/24/02 -0600, you wrote:
> Thanks Dave, and also to everyone else who replied.  I'll write more
>either  later this evening, or tomorrow.  I'm on my way out to teach soon,
>and then going out tonight.  <smile>  Lemme' just say I've set the line
>switch properly, and yes, when it's not set properly the noise level is
>quite insane!   lol!  -and I'm also heading up to check out the Electrix
>support link to read the faq.  Thanks a bunch to all of you for the help.
>As usual, if anyone thinks of anything else, I'd ttotally love to hear it.
>Thanks so much!...  Have a wonderful day!...  
>
>Smiles,
>
>G-Girl
>
>At 09:40 AM 6/24/02 -0700, you wrote:
>>>   Hi guys, just lemme' clear up, that I've never used it between a guitar
>>>and an amp.  I always run stereo line level with  everything I use.  The
>>>reason I'm  concerned is that it easily even outdoes my noisiest consumer
>>>gear right now, so I'm a little suspicious I might have a defective one,
>>>but we'll see... 
>>>   Thanks again for all the replies, please feel free to send along any
>>>other thoughts, even in light of this, it may just be that this is just a
>>>noisier processor than I'm used to.  If that's the case than at least I
>>>know...  Thanks bunches you guys ROCK!...
>>>
>>>Smiles,
>>>
>>>G-Girl
>>
>>Have you checked the "Phono/Line" switch on the back panel of the 
>>Repeater? I was having serious noise problems, exactly like you 
>>described, with mine, and it was driving me nuts. I carefully 
>>rechecked the gain, replaced the CFC card, everything, and the noise 
>>was still there. Finally, I found mention of the Phono switch on 
>>Electrix's user forum and checked it, sure enough, in repatching, I'd 
>>accidentally hit the switch, it's right next to the jacks, so it's 
>>really too easy to hit. Setting it to line cleared up all my noise 
>>problems, and left me feeling pretty stupid...
>>-- 
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Dave Trenkel                                New and Improv Music
>>http://www.newandimprov.com         improv@peak.org
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>
>
>---
>
>  "The only things I really think are important, are love, and eachother.
>-Then, anything is possible..."  
>
>http://home.earthlink.net/~thefates
>
>Please visit The Guitar Cafe.  
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-guitar-cafe 
>
>
>


---

  "The only things I really think are important, are love, and eachother.
-Then, anything is possible..."  

http://home.earthlink.net/~thefates

Please visit The Guitar Cafe.  

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-guitar-cafe 


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 24 13:38:56 2002
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Subject: Re: Hi, it's me again...
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noise from accessing the cf card leaks into the audio path
(quite loud in the headphone out, less so in the line outs)
try running without the card to see if this is the noise you are hearing...

running +4 balanced helps reduce this noise a lot.
using the digital outs should eliminate it...

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Goddess" <thefates@earthlink.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 12:22 PM
Subject: Re: Hi, it's me again...


>   OK, back for another quickie...  I read the faq, and it still doesn't
> seem to quite be addressing the same issue I seem to be having.  This is
> not ordinary hiss or hum or buzz.  Someone else here described it quite
> well as being thin, papery and comb filtery.  It seems to be at about 120
> to 130 hz or so, and fluctuates as a pitch shifter would when it can't
> quite settle on the correct note.  It also seems to be dependant on the
> input side of things rather than the output, regardless of whether there's
> any signal going into it at all.    It also reminds me of the lower
> frequencies of when  a tube is going bad, how it sort of whines unsteadily
> and sounds really pathetic!  lol!  -but instead of a higher pitched whine,
> as might happen in most cases, it's a lower pitched one, as is sometimes
> the case.  Anyway,  <smile>   -If all that makes sense to anyone and they
> are aware of what's going on, *looks extra extra extra cute*  please please
> please let me know...   <smile>  I may see about getting a replacement for
> this one anyway today.  We'll see.  Anyway, bye for now, have an awesome
> day!, K?  
> 
> Laters,
> 
> G-Girl


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 24 13:55:10 2002
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Subject: loop 4 bug?
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first let me say that i have had some great fun this weekend with loop windowing.

this may be a limitation and not a bug.
i was not that familiar with loop 3, so it may not be a new thing either.

1. record initial loop (mine was 2 beats. i left 8ths per beat at 8 - shouldn't matter, though).
2. overdub two passes.
3. multiply out to 4 cycles.
4. undo. (this removes what was overdubbed during multiply but leaves the loop at 4 cycles)
    seems to me that we should now have a one cycle loop, but not a big deal.

5. undo again.

now we have the original loop as cycle 1, the first overdub (step 2a) as cycle 2 and cycles 3 and 4 are the original cycle plus both
overdubs from step 2.

strange.
but if this is the price to pay for loop windowing, then it is worth it.


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 24 14:11:18 2002
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Subject: Re: Panning pedal?
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i know that ernie ball builds a panning/volume pedal.  i've never used one,
though, so i won't comment on the quality.

-jim


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 24 14:13:07 2002
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Subject: Re: alembic preamp
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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no, in my case, that would simply waste inputs and outputs (i own the =
8B).  i found that going from output A to input B creates a very nasty =
bee-in-a-bottle preamp overdrive.

-jim

------=_NextPart_000_00B4_01C21B80.776951F0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>no, in my case, that would simply waste inputs and =
outputs (i=20
own the 8B).&nbsp; i found that going from output A to input B creates a =
very=20
nasty bee-in-a-bottle preamp overdrive.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>-jim</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_00B4_01C21B80.776951F0--


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 24 14:23:36 2002
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At 4:51 PM -0700 6/23/02, Kim Flint wrote:

[a bunch of stuff that makes good sense from a capitalist perspective.]

I'm going to bow out of this debate at this point because I think 
that several of you have eloquently argued for my position, but in a 
nutshell:

For many of us the Internet has promised to be a viable alternative 
to the entrenched corporate model of the music industry. An important 
part of the Do It Yourself (DIY) alternative is the dissemination of 
our music through on-line commerce, mp3 downloads, and streaming 
audio. A major component of promotion is the community of small 
Webcasters who are more interested in the music than in the music 
business. While some of these people may be the fools and 
incompetents that Kim suggests, I think that a lot of them are simply 
enthusiasts or are deliberately small businesses for whom the 
RIAA/CARP royalties will make the difference between continuing and 
not.

When I ran the figures for a small "hobbyist" Web station with 100 
listeners I found that the royalties could be in the neighborhood of 
$10,000 per annum. That might be peanuts for a commercial operation, 
but if one wished to avoid commercial sponsorship it would really be 
too much. The alternative to paying the royalties is to obtain 
individual releases from all the artists to be Webcast, and this 
added burden of paperwork would probably cause a lot of marginal 
operations to shut down as well.

My position is that one of the prime virtues of the Web is its 
ability to support a large community of "marginal" on-line 
publishers. The sheer variety of obscure and diverse material that is 
made available through such a grass-roots system is to the benefit of 
all of us (enriching the "gene pool"). In contrast to this we have 
the "commercial" publishers who have to be concerned with the bottom 
line, with the resulting proliferation of ads and boiling down of 
programming to only the most popular material ("inbreeding").
-- 

______________________________________________________________
Richard Zvonar, PhD
(818) 788-2202
http://www.zvonar.com
http://RZCybernetics.com
http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 24 14:37:10 2002
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luigi wrote it like this:
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 14:57:36 +0200
From: "Luigi Meloni" <Luigimeloni74@libero.it>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Re: Who Are The Commies?

I am a commy...:-) And proud of it, seeing where right wing parties brought
us to in recent history...

hey, luigi!
yknow, if you spell it "comi" it looks all new-millennium refreshed and 
more sorta indie rock!

just, er, helping.

a:c


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From: "KEVIN SIMONSON" <KSIMONSON@revenue.state.il.us>
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Subject: OT:  CARP, Who's going to enforce this?
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My apologies if this has been addressed.  I've been following the
debate here, and truly appreciate everyone's perspectives.   

Who is going to enforce this?  How do the "powers that be" intend to
regulate the 'net stations themselves?  How effective have such moves
been in the past?
  
Let's see...
-people still share files.
-people still record audio casettes.
-people still copy CD's.
-people still sample.

-K


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 24 14:52:48 2002
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Subject: generator power issues?
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Here's a question for the Burning Man types and others who take gear where
it probably doesn't belong :)

I'm planning on taking some of my studio gear (edp, processors, mixer etc)
camping at the Phoenix Festival in southern Washington in a few weeks, and
am curious as to what I can do to protect my gear when running off a
gasoline generator.

I did this last year, and the gear didn't seem any the worse for the
experience, despite several out-of-gas power interruptions. But I wonder
whether I was just lucky?

Anybody have advice for protecting gear from electrical power supply
oddities in this kind of situation?

thanks

Bob

Phoenix Festival info:  http://www.phoenixfest.com/
July 3-7, near Portland, OR





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From: "Neil Goldstein" <ngold@attbi.com>
To: "Loopers-Delight" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Loop IV: Substitute is awesome
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 11:33:52 -0700
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Just an accolade for the Substitute function. This feature alone is worth
half a decade or more of musical exploration. Very musically constructive
feature! No excuse not to "edit" those loops now...

NOTE: Aside from the convenience of DirectMidi, etc. I think the IV manual
addendum is clearly written, such that experimenting with 'advanced'
features is more inviting.


    _/      _/  _/_/_/  _/  _/
   _/_/    _/  _/      _/  _/
  _/  _/  _/  _/_/    _/  _/
 _/    _/_/  _/      _/  _/
_/      _/  _/_/_/  _/  _/_/_/

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KSIMONSON@revenue.state.il.us writes:

>-people still sample.
..... and still get sued for same, and lose.
just a thought; i have some experience w/this.
(two out-of-court settlements for unlicensed use of personal material --- and 
i certainly wasn't *looking* for either of these.....).
best,
dt / s-c

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To: "Loopers-Delight" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject:  Lexicon PSP 42 plugin
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 11:57:55 -0700
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FYI

PSP has released the new Lexicon PSP 42 plugin. Indeed, it carries the 
name "Lexicon" in it. Full info at http://www.pspaudioware.com
The plugin really sounds fantastic!


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Subject: Good POINT Zvonar, and real cost. (was Re: CARP passed- this sucks.)
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First, I want to say that I think for me Richard's post totally nailed my
sentiment about the whole issue.

Second, I did a little math, just for fun:

Assuming an average song lasts 5 minutes you can get about 288 songs
played in a 24 hour period.

288*.07 cents = 20.16 cents

That's about a $1.41 a week.

So, that basically means it would cost in the neighborhood of $5.64 a
month to broadcast 24 hours a day for a month.  This fee is going to stop
internet radio?  Am I missing something here?  I know there are already
costs involved in running an internet radio station, but I would imagine
that the $5-6 a month would be a pretty small part of the overall cost,
no?  I'm I wrong in assuming that .07 cents per performance would imply
that once you streamed the song, you'd pay that fee once.  Am I wrong?

Mark Sottilaro

Richard Zvonar, PhD wrote:


> My position is that one of the prime virtues of the Web is its
> ability to support a large community of "marginal" on-line
> publishers. The sheer variety of obscure and diverse material that is
> made available through such a grass-roots system is to the benefit of
> all of us (enriching the "gene pool"). In contrast to this we have
> the "commercial" publishers who have to be concerned with the bottom
> line, with the resulting proliferation of ads and boiling down of
> programming to only the most popular material ("inbreeding").
>



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Exhibition information for POST at 1904 East 7th Place, Los Angeles, CA 90021.

Exhibition: e-motion
Curator: Susan Joyce
Exhibition Dates: July 6 - August 3, 2002

Regular Hours: Wednesday - Saturday, 12:00 noon - 6 PM

Opening Reception: Saturday, July 6, 7:00 - 10:00 PM
SRL performance @ 9:30PM

POST is pleased to present e-motion featuring new media; motion based 
works by Kent Anderson Butler, Casey Hanrahan, Kristine Marx, Yucef 
Merhi, Mark Pauline, Erwin Redl, and James Rouvelle.

Since the invention of motion pictures a century ago, artists have 
been experimenting in innovative ways, exploring the possibilities of 
art and technology.  Electronic culture has expanded the world of 
visual art. The works in this exhibition represent the use of 
technology in creative and meaningful applications.  In concert with 
artistic expression, these artists employ diverse disciplines such as 
light, sound, video, performance, language, and engineering.  Ideas 
are transformed into visceral experiences, all in some way engage in 
the activity of motion, and in some instances interaction between the 
works occur.  We are just beginning to scratch the surface on 
understanding the potential of technology and its relationship to 
contemporary art.  With the assimilation of machine to technology, 
cultural transformations take place.  The evolution of electronic 
culture is a change in the dynamics of society, representation and 
experience.

Kent Anderson Butler - performance/video installation "Immersion" is 
an investigation of the union between two people and represents the 
process of ritual and spiritual experience.

Casey Hanrahan -Using materials such as aluminum, steel, and rivets, 
the artist employs systems of mathematics and design to construct 
optical meditative drawings for the purpose of targets.

Kristine Marx - video installation depicts situations that are both
intimate and impersonal.  The banal is experienced as a spatially 
disorienting and isolating event.  The work draws attention to the 
elastic, permeable boundary between self and other, interior and 
exterior, reality and illusion.

Yucef Merhi - Poetic Words is a work constituted by 4 light emitting 
spinning devices.  When people interact with these machines they will 
see a word, created by combining two words, related to a social, 
philosophical or political issue, like Anorecstasy (Anorexia - 
Ecstasy).  In Artistotelian terms, the words always exist in potency 
but become poetry in motion when
the spectators spin the object and feel/interpret the content.  Most 
recent net-poetry project of Merhi can be experienced at
http://www.turbulence.org/Works/yucef.

Mark Pauline - Survival Research Laboratories videos of machine
experiments and performances.  SRL was conceived and founded by Mark 
Pauline in 1978 as an organization of creative technicians dedicated 
to redirecting the techniques, tools, and tenets of industry, 
science, and the military away from their typical manifestations in 
practicality, product or warfare. SRL has staged over 50 mechanized 
performances in the United States and Europe that consist of a unique 
set of ritualized interactions between machines, robots, and special 
effects devices, employed in developing themes of socio-political 
satire.  Humans are present only as audience or operators.
http://www.srl.org

Erwin Redl - elevator shaft light installation.  In this body of 
work, space is experienced as a second skin, our social skin, which 
is transformed through artistic intervention. Due to the very nature 
of its architectural dimension, participating by simply being 
"present" is an integral part of the installation.  Visual perception 
has to work in conjunction with corporeal motion, and the passage of 
time, an additional parameter of motion.  Redl's light installation 
was recently featured at the 2002 Whitney Biennial.

James Rouvelle - interactive sound robotics.  Robots are sensitive to 
changes in light and sound.  A blue LED at the tip of each responds 
to its environment by either illuminating, holding, or dimming at 
various speeds. Each robot attempts to locate others by emitting, 
sensing, and responding to a sound similar to sonar.  Movement by 
visitors in the space creates an additional dimension of 
interactivity.
Kent Anderson Butler - performance/video installation "Immersion" is 
an investigation of the union between two people and represents the 
process of ritual and spiritual experience.

Casey Hanrahan -Using materials such as aluminum, steel, and rivets, 
the artist employs systems of mathematics and design to construct 
optical meditative drawings for the purpose of targets.

Kristine Marx - video installation depicts situations that are both
intimate and impersonal.  The banal is experienced as a spatially 
disorienting and isolating event.  The work draws attention to the 
elastic, permeable boundary between self and other, interior and 
exterior, reality and illusion.

Yucef Merhi - Poetic Words is a work constituted by 4 light emitting 
spinning devices.  When people interact with these machines they will 
see a word, created by combining two words, related to a social, 
philosophical or political issue, like Anorecstasy (Anorexia - 
Ecstasy).  In Artistotelian terms, the words always exist in potency 
but become poetry in motion when
the spectators spin the object and feel/interpret the content.  Most 
recent net-poetry project of Merhi can be experienced at
http://www.turbulence.org/Works/yucef.

Mark Pauline - Survival Research Laboratories videos of machine
experiments and performances.  SRL was conceived and founded by Mark 
Pauline in 1978 as an organization of creative technicians dedicated 
to redirecting the techniques, tools, and tenets of industry, 
science, and the military away from their typical manifestations in 
practicality, product or warfare.SRL has staged over 50 mechanized 
performances in the United States and Europe that consist of a unique 
set of ritualized interactions between machines, robots, and special 
effects devices, employed in developing themes of socio-political 
satire.  Humans are present only as audience or operators.
http://www.srl.org

Erwin Redl - elevator shaft light installation.  In this body of 
work, space is experienced as a second skin, our social skin, which 
is transformed through artistic intervention. Due to the very nature 
of its architectural dimension, participating by simply being 
"present" is an integral part of the installation.  Visual perception 
has to work in conjunction with corporeal motion, and the passage of 
time, an additional parameter of motion.  Redl's light installation 
was recently featured at the 2002 Whitney Biennial.

James Rouvelle - interactive sound robotics.  Robots are sensitive to 
changes in light and sound.  A blue LED at the tip of each responds 
to its environment by either illuminating, holding, or dimming at 
various speeds. Each robot attempts to locate others by emitting, 
sensing, and responding to a sound similar to sonar.  Movement by 
visitors in the space creates an additional dimension of 
interactivity.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 24 16:08:29 2002
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From: Greg House <ghunicycle@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: OT: CARP passed- this sucks.
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--- Kim Flint <kflint@loopers-delight.com> wrote:
> At 10:29 PM 6/23/2002, Mark Sottilaro wrote:

>> If SOMA FM gets charged .07 cents to 
>> play one of my songs, and then Sting ends up with .02 cents of it,
>> that's NOT OK with me.
> 
> That shouldn't be ok with you. Does the law say that Sting gets part
> of your money? 

I haven't read it all either (skimmed parts of it), and it probably
doesn't exactly _say_ that, but it's the simple model of distribution
by artist popularity. It's the same bunch of crap that the RIAA tried
to pull back in the 90s (or was it 80s?) when they forced through
legislation to impose a tax on MEDIA which could be used to make
digital copies, and adding copy protection electronics to DAT recorders
and things like that. 

Basically, it amounted to this: if I purchased a blank audio DAT tape
and used it to record MY OWN MUSIC, I paid a tax for that media, which
presumed that I was going to recording SOME COMMERCIAL MUSIC. The
proceeds from this tax was distributed according to sales statistics.
So...I bought a tape to record my stuff on, and Michael Jackson made
money off me,'cause he was big on the sales charts at the time. That is
just flat wrong. I wasn't into his music, and I didn't want my money
going to him. AND I was being unfairly criminalized by the prosumption
that I was going to make a copy of a commercial recording when I bought
a blank DAT.

> If money is collected for you and owed to you, then go demand it.

Sure, demand all you want. Pay your lawyer thousands of dollars to
fight the legion of lawyers they maintain on staff. All to retrieve
that $2.20 you "earned" 'cause an internet radio outfit played your
song for a couple of months. 

> If the RIAA got themselves signed 
> up to collect money for you, then it is their problem to see to it
> that you get paid your share. But if they don't pay you it is your
> problem to go 
> stick up for yourself and protect your own rights to that money.

How are you going to know how much is owned you, if anything? I sure
don't know today. I send 100 demo CDs to college radio stations hoping
they play something off it, maybe they do, maybe not, but I sure don't
know about it. How would I find out? Well, maybe they pay ASCAP and
ASCAP sends me a check. Um...maybe. Maybe ASCAP sends my check to
Sting. Who's to know?

> Nobody is going to fight that battle for you, but if you ask me 
> it seems like a pretty easy battle.

I completely disagree. If you have limited resources to fight the
battle, and your opponent has virtually unlimited resources, you have
virtually zero chance of success. They just play you with repeated
appeals and such until you run out of time, or money to continue the
fight. End of the story. The legal system in this country basically
works like this; whoever has the most money wins. 

Greg

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

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From: Greg House <ghunicycle@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: OT: CARP passed- this sucks.
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--- Kim Flint <kflint@loopers-delight.com> wrote:

> At this point, the whole idea that they 
> won't pay people is just paranoid speculation anyway.

They never paid me for the music I recorded on those DAT tapes a few
years ago.

> But anyway, I still don't see what the big deal is.

DMCA isn't just about webcasting, it goes a lot farther. Check Stephen
Goodman's writeup on it, or some of the other links that have been
posted.

Greg

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 24 16:26:14 2002
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Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 13:24:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Greg House <ghunicycle@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Hi, it's me again... 
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I remember a post somewhere that complained about Repeater noise being
caused by having the switch for the phono preamp set wrong on the back.

Another one said that it only affecting one track (track 1) and that
one seemed to be caused by a defective CFC.

Greg


--- Luigi Meloni <Luigimeloni74@libero.it> wrote:
> Hi. I've had the same problem with the repeater of a friend of mine.
> He just
> got it from another member of looper's delight. (How are you Luca?)
> and he
> phoned me about dealing with the high noise floor of the repeater. We
> took
> it to my home-studio and I tried it between my pre and my mixer. No
> noise. I
> tried then to put it in one of the send/return loops of the mixer.
> Still no
> noise. Back to his home I tried it with his instruments. The noise
> was there
> and it was high. (He too uses it with a pre and a power-amp. No
> mixer). Then
> I saw on the link I'm sending you one possible solution to manage the
> problem.
> 
> http://www.electrixpro.com/support/faq.html
> 
> Look under the section 'My Repeater seems really noisy. Why?'. We
> tried to
> mod the cables like this and the problem was solved. In my studio
> theproblem
> didn't show up because I use all my instruments set to +4 db and with
> balanced cables. He used it with a -10db output preamp and directly
> into the
> power amp, other fx in the fx-loop of his pre.
> 
> Just try this. It is a possibility.
> 
> Peace
> Luigi
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Goddess" <thefates@earthlink.net>
> To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 7:46 AM
> Subject: Re: Hi, it's me again...
> 
> 
> >   Hi guys, just lemme' clear up, that I've never used it between a
> guitar
> > and an amp.  I always run stereo line level with  everything I use.
>  The
> > reason I'm  concerned is that it easily even outdoes my noisiest
> consumer
> > gear right now, so I'm a little suspicious I might have a defective
> one,
> > but we'll see...
> >   Thanks again for all the replies, please feel free to send along
> any
> > other thoughts, even in light of this, it may just be that this is
> just a
> > noisier processor than I'm used to.  If that's the case than at
> least I
> > know...  Thanks bunches you guys ROCK!...
> >
> > Smiles,
> >
> > G-Girl
> >
> > At 09:24 PM 6/23/02 -0700, you wrote:
> > > To add to what Mark said, definetly use it in an effects loop and
> a
> > >parallel loop if possible. I run it through an effects send on my
> Mackie
> > >mixer, and I definitely use the dry/mute function (hold stop and
> press
> the
> > >overdub button to access) which will clean up that slightly phasey
> comb
> > >filter sound you are hearing. Actually, if used properly the
> repeater has
> > >more headroom and better sampling rate than anything else
> currently
> > >available for dedicated looping. Just don't put it in line between
> your
> > >guitar and an amp.
> > >Enjoy
> > >Bill
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ---
> >
> >   "The only things I really think are important, are love, and
> eachother.
> > -Then, anything is possible..."
> >
> > http://home.earthlink.net/~thefates
> >
> > Please visit The Guitar Cafe.
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-guitar-cafe
> >
> >
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

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At 12:12 PM -0700 6/24/02, Mark Sottilaro wrote:

>Assuming an average song lasts 5 minutes you can get about 288 songs
>played in a 24 hour period.
>
>288*.07 cents = 20.16 cents
>
>That's about a $1.41 a week.
>
>So, that basically means it would cost in the neighborhood of $5.64 a
>month to broadcast 24 hours a day for a month.  This fee is going to stop
>internet radio?  Am I missing something here?  I know there are already
>costs involved in running an internet radio station, but I would imagine
>that the $5-6 a month would be a pretty small part of the overall cost,
>no?  I'm I wrong in assuming that .07 cents per performance would imply
>that once you streamed the song, you'd pay that fee once.  Am I wrong?

That fee is PER LISTENER.  Assume you have a small station with only 
100 listeners = 100 audio streams. That makes it $20.16 per day, 
$141.12 per week, $614.88 per month, $7,358.40 per year.

Now assume that your station has reached a listenership equivalent to 
that of a college campus station. The number of listeners might be in 
the thousands, in which case the annual royalty could be in the 
hundreds of thousands of dollars per year. Here are some figures I 
found on <http://doc.weblogs.com/2002/06/21>:

>...a station with 2000 listeners playing 18 songs in an hour, at 
>0.07¢ ($0.0007) per song per listener per hour, woud pay $604.80 per 
>day, or $220,903.20 per year.
>  	The math:
>  	18 x $.0007 = $.0126 per listener/hour
>  	$.0126 x 2000 = $25.20 for 2000 listeners in an hour
>  	$.31752 x 24 = $604.80 per day
>  	$2.419655 x 365.25 = $220,903.20 per year
-- 

______________________________________________________________
Richard Zvonar, PhD
(818) 788-2202
http://www.zvonar.com
http://RZCybernetics.com
http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 24 16:40:30 2002
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Subject: Re: Panning pedal?
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if you're into pawnshopping, there is that 70's pedal that Korg made that is
a crossfader (passive i assume) that is usable both ways: 2 ins to 1 out
(x-fader) or 1 in to 2 outs (balancer) i could get the models name -if
you're looking for that type of "panning" device-
tieg

  


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From: Kim Flint <kflint@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Re: CARP passed- this sucks.
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At 11:14 AM 6/24/2002, Richard Zvonar wrote:
>At 4:51 PM -0700 6/23/02, Kim Flint wrote:
>
>[a bunch of stuff that makes good sense from a capitalist perspective.]
>
>I'm going to bow out of this debate at this point because I think that 
>several of you have eloquently argued for my position, but in a nutshell:
>
>For many of us the Internet has promised to be a viable alternative to the 
>entrenched corporate model of the music industry. An important part of the 
>Do It Yourself (DIY) alternative is the dissemination of our music through 
>on-line commerce, mp3 downloads, and streaming audio. A major component of 
>promotion is the community of small Webcasters who are more interested in 
>the music than in the music business. While some of these people may be 
>the fools and incompetents that Kim suggests, I think that a lot of them 
>are simply enthusiasts or are deliberately small businesses for whom the 
>RIAA/CARP royalties will make the difference between continuing and not.

and I'm still not seeing how this whole CARP thing takes that away. All the 
possibilities of DIY are still there, and the internet still offers it. It 
seems to me it is even better now because musicians have another way to get 
paid for their work.

>When I ran the figures for a small "hobbyist" Web station with 100 
>listeners I found that the royalties could be in the neighborhood of 
>$10,000 per annum.

Again, you guys are not grasping the economics of the internet at all. One 
thing that never ever changes is that bandwidth is not free. If you had 
such a web station, the costs of just the bandwidth, equipment, and data 
center space to operate would be much higher than that $10k/year royalty. 
There is no way somebody is operating such a station as a "hobby" unless 
they are extremely wealthy. No matter what, that webcaster has to figure 
out how to make money out of this operation, or he is going "off the air" 
really fast.

So now they have to pay a royalty rate for the music as well? Fine, the 
cost is a little higher. But you already had high costs anyway. If you 
can't figure out how to make your station cover the costs of this royalty, 
for sure you couldn't figure out how to pay for the basic operating costs 
of the station in the first place.

kim



______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 24 17:27:43 2002
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>and I'm still not seeing how this whole CARP thing takes that away. All the 
>possibilities of DIY are still there, and the internet still offers it. It 
>seems to me it is even better now because musicians have another way to get 
>paid for their work.
>
I've been holding my tongue in this debate, but I feel Kim is missing a pretty important point.

I'm going to go out on a limb and pull a figure from my butt.  It's a figure based on my own random sampling of internet stations over the last several years.  And that figure is that less than half of the music that is offered for streaming on the internet is music from RIAA aligned musicians.  That is the big problem.  It's not like these royalties will be administered by ASCAP and BMI (like on commercial and non-commercial radio currently).  This is cash going straight to the RIAA for ALL music being played on the internet.  I actually think that "less than half" figure is insanely conservative.  So now you have independant stations supporting the major labels even if they don't play major label music.  There is no way to call that fair.

I also run a label.  I webcast songs from the CDs on my label.  There is no mechanism in CARP to compensate me as the copyright holder.  If I paid the fees for webcasting, I would not see one cent of them in return.  Beyond the idiocy of making me pay to broadcast music I own, the problem is that I wouldn't even get any of that money back.  That is theft.

   Kevin

--
-------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Goldsmith                          kevin@unitcircle.com
Unit Circle Media                   http://www.unitcircle.com
--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 24 18:59:40 2002
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Subject: Re: Good POINT Zvonar, and real cost. (was Re: CARP passed- this sucks.)
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 23:57:57 +0100
Organization: EarthLight Productions
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Mark, you're assuming that the people who would have to keep track of all of
those payments and accruals would work for free.  Under the
originally-proposed legislation - the stuff that initially got thrown out in
May, but you can be sure it'll be back if this stuff sticks - one had to
create an escrow company - with employees, dig? - to operate the
royalty/copyright business.  This is what really knocks everyone but the Big
Five out, not the royalty payments themselves.  Which is what the RIAA and
the Big Five want.  No competition.

Like I have said before there's no problem with any and all of us getting
paid.  It's the manditory middlemen that would truly kill our ability to be
heard.

Stephen P. Goodman
EarthLight Productions
*
http://www.earthlight.net/Studios - The Free Loop of the Week!
http://www.earthlight.net/Gallery_Front.html - Cartoons!
http://www.earthlight.net/HiddenTrack.html - More Cartoons!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Sottilaro" <sine@zerocrossing.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 20:12 PM
Subject: Good POINT Zvonar, and real cost. (was Re: CARP passed- this
sucks.)


> First, I want to say that I think for me Richard's post totally nailed my
> sentiment about the whole issue.
>
> Second, I did a little math, just for fun:
>
> Assuming an average song lasts 5 minutes you can get about 288 songs
> played in a 24 hour period.
>
> 288*.07 cents = 20.16 cents
>
> That's about a $1.41 a week.
>
> So, that basically means it would cost in the neighborhood of $5.64 a
> month to broadcast 24 hours a day for a month.  This fee is going to stop
> internet radio?  Am I missing something here?  I know there are already
> costs involved in running an internet radio station, but I would imagine
> that the $5-6 a month would be a pretty small part of the overall cost,
> no?  I'm I wrong in assuming that .07 cents per performance would imply
> that once you streamed the song, you'd pay that fee once.  Am I wrong?
>
> Mark Sottilaro
>
> Richard Zvonar, PhD wrote:
>
>
> > My position is that one of the prime virtues of the Web is its
> > ability to support a large community of "marginal" on-line
> > publishers. The sheer variety of obscure and diverse material that is
> > made available through such a grass-roots system is to the benefit of
> > all of us (enriching the "gene pool"). In contrast to this we have
> > the "commercial" publishers who have to be concerned with the bottom
> > line, with the resulting proliferation of ads and boiling down of
> > programming to only the most popular material ("inbreeding").
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 24 19:01:38 2002
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg House" <ghunicycle@yahoo.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 21:11 PM
Subject: Re: OT: CARP passed- this sucks.


> --- Kim Flint <kflint@loopers-delight.com> wrote:
>
> > At this point, the whole idea that they
> > won't pay people is just paranoid speculation anyway.
>
> They never paid me for the music I recorded on those DAT tapes a few
> years ago.
>
> > But anyway, I still don't see what the big deal is.
>
> DMCA isn't just about webcasting, it goes a lot farther. Check Stephen
> Goodman's writeup on it, or some of the other links that have been
> posted.

I was just about to say that the DMCA stuff is the sledgehammer to kill this
puppy.  Brutally and with accountants and lawyers.

http://www.earthlight.net/Thoughts002.html is where my point-by-point
analysis is, with updates just concerning the DMCA.

Stephen P. Goodman
EarthLight Productions
*
http://www.earthlight.net/Studios - The Free Loop of the Week!
http://www.earthlight.net/Gallery_Front.html - Cartoons!
http://www.earthlight.net/HiddenTrack.html - More Cartoons!


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 24 19:50:50 2002
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From: SRice <srice44@yahoo.com>
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Quality?  If you ran over it with a tank you'll need to change
your treads.  I love mine.

Incidentally, the plain stereo(without the pan toe switch)
can be easily made into a pan pedal by flipping a couple
leads in an internal connector.

Yours in rhythm,
Steven





Subject:
        Re: Panning pedal?



i know that ernie ball builds a panning/volume pedal.  i've 
never used one,
though, so i won't comment on the quality.

-jim

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 24 20:12:13 2002
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Subject: Here, guys is the CORRECTED math concerning the CARP decisions' effect on the future of Internet Radio
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Dear Mark,

you wrote:

"Assuming an average song lasts 5 minutes you can get about 288 songs
played in a 24 hour period.
288*.07 cents = 20.16 cents
That's about a $1.41 a week.
So, that basically means it would cost in the neighborhood of $5.64 a
month to broadcast 24 hours a day for a month.  This fee is going to stop
internet radio?  AM I MISSING SOMETHING HERE?"


I'm afraid you are, Mark..........you made an understandable calculation
error and
made your equation based on 7/100 of a cent per song when, in reality it is
7 cents per song.

here's a quick revision of your math:

288 songs  X  $.07/song       =   $20.16/24 hours worth of songs
$20.16     X  7 (days)   =   141.12  a week
$141.12    X  4  (weeks) =  $564.48

That's an impossible figure and will put almost every 'legal' free internet
radio station out of business. period. point. dot

There goes the underground, my friend.

I completely agree with everyone's assertions that it is important to pay
people for their artistry.  Unfortunately the media is completely controlled
by the major corporations with the exception of College, Independent and
'Free' radio stations and the internet.

The ONLY way I have of getting my art out to anything but a region (which I
can service in my own car) is to rely on free radio and media.

This free 'promotion' of music sets up independent artists to be able to
'transcend' their region and, ultimately,

And you think the major labels and the RIAA is going to insure that artists
like you and me are going to get our fair share of this money?  They don't
have a very good track record so far.

And,as my wife points out, commercial radio doesn't even have these fees in
place and they have advertising revenue (not to mention payola which is back
in full swing in the industry right now................fact,  it costs
$7,000 for ANY artist to add a song to
the rotation of any major market radio station...........that's Bjork to the
Backstreet Boys)

Let's hear it for PIRATE RADIO!!!!!

yours,  Rick Walker (aka loop.pool)

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 24 20:55:22 2002
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OK, I see my confusion.  I read an email that said, ".07 cents"  which IS 7
100ths of a cent, which is evidently a LOT less than 7 cents.  It makes more
sense to me now.  (no pun intended)


So this all leads me to conclude that the only way out, until or if this
decision gets reversed, is to form a coalition of unsigned artists that have
nothing to do with the RIAA or any other similar group, and formed an internet
based radio station(s) that ONLY use work that's been released by the artist,
basically what mp3.com is doing, but DJ'd and streamed.  Seems like it wouldn't
be that hard if you already have an internet streaming station, no?  It's just
a matter of acquiring content.  Maybe we should form the United Looper's
Coalition, gather content and signed releases and offer it to appropriate
internet radio stations for them to stream.

Am I totally off base here?  It's so wacky, it might just work!

Mark Sottilaro

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 24 21:08:54 2002
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Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 21:04:46 -0400
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From: just john <just-john@just-john.com>
Subject: Re: United Looper's Coalition.  A proposal.  (was...the CORRECTED
 MATH)
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>OK, I see my confusion.  I read an email that said, ".07 cents"  which IS 7
>100ths of a cent, which is evidently a LOT less than 7 cents.  It makes more
>sense to me now.  (no pun intended)
>

Odds are, news reports have made the mistake, too.  Something about numbers
scares the mainstream newsie.

>
>So this all leads me to conclude that the only way out, until or if this
>decision gets reversed, is to form a coalition of unsigned artists that have
>nothing to do with the RIAA or any other similar group, and formed an internet
>based radio station(s) that ONLY use work that's been released by the artist,
>basically what mp3.com is doing, but DJ'd and streamed.  Seems like it
>wouldn't
>be that hard if you already have an internet streaming station, no?  It's just
>a matter of acquiring content.  Maybe we should form the United Looper's
>Coalition, gather content and signed releases and offer it to appropriate
>internet radio stations for them to stream.
>
>Am I totally off base here?  It's so wacky, it might just work!
>
>Mark Sottilaro

Two replies:

A) I'd welcome a loopers' webcast, or several.

B) As a political/economic movement, I'd suggest we think larger.  Stuff
from every genre, and more.  There are now people in every neighborhood who
record their own music at what was once professional-only quality.  Some of
it's looping, some is hip-hip, some is gospel, some is rock ....

And even if we consider Sturgeon's Law, that 90% of everything is shit,
that still means there are hundreds of thousands of unsigned producers of
music out here.

THAT is your potential content base.




---
* just-john@just-john.com  http://just-john.com/cn/rfe.shtml *

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 24 21:21:42 2002
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Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 18:16:54 -0700
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From: Kim Flint <kflint@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Re: Here, guys is the CORRECTED math concerning the CARP
  decisions' effect on the future of Internet Radio
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ah great, numbers. let's take a look at that:

At 05:09 PM 6/24/2002, Rick Walker/Loop.pooL wrote:
>I'm afraid you are, Mark..........you made an understandable calculation
>error and
>made your equation based on 7/100 of a cent per song when, in reality it is
>7 cents per song.

Mark's numbers were per listener, your's are per 100 listeners. (if I've 
got that right.) The correct rate is .07 cents per listener, or 7 cents per 
100 listeners, or 70 cents per thousand listeners, for one song play.

>here's a quick revision of your math:
>
>288 songs  X  $.07/song       =   $20.16/24 hours worth of songs
>$20.16     X  7 (days)   =   141.12  a week
>$141.12    X  4  (weeks) =  $564.48
>
>That's an impossible figure and will put almost every 'legal' free internet
>radio station out of business. period. point. dot

No it isn't. I can't understand how you guys keep reaching that conclusion, 
without following up with any analysis of the business of running a real 
web site.

Let's see what kind of advertising rates you would need to charge to make 
this work.

288 songs per day X 100 listeners = 28,800 plays/day
28,800 plays X 28 days = 806,400 plays/month

let's say you play 2 ads every 5 songs.

2ads X (806,400 / 5) = 322,560 ad plays.

So you have ads being heard 322,560 times during the month. Visual ads are 
usually sold on a "cost per thousand impressions" (CPM) basis. I'll assume 
web radio ads are sold on a "cost per thousand listens" basis.

$564.48 / 322 = $1.75 CPM

In other words, you have to charge only $1.75 per thousand listens for your 
ad space. If audio ads are comparable to banner ads, that is well within 
industry rates for completely generic, splattered-anywhere ads. For 
targeted advertising you can easily charge 4-5 times that or more. I would 
expect audio ads could charge even more than banners anyway. Which makes 
$1.75 a fairly low ad rate.

This is not hard to accomplish, even for small time operations. I'm doing 
it right now, for real. It is NOT impossible, or even close to impossible.


>There goes the underground, my friend.

only the underground that can't figure out the most basic business concepts.


>And,as my wife points out, commercial radio doesn't even have these fees in
>place and they have advertising revenue

Radio stations have to pay considerably higher fees for licenses to 
broadcast over the radio spectrum. And since the number of radio channels 
available to them are very limited for any given region, those licenses go 
into bidding wars and become even more expensive. Plus the costs of 
broadcast equipment, studios, staff, etc. make a radio station a lot more 
expensive to run than a web station. Yet somehow they manage to pay much 
larger bills by selling ads. Clearly it is possible. How come webcasters 
are unable to do the same? That's why at the beginning of all this I said 
Herb Tarlek was a genius compared to these guys, and this notion that 
webcasters are being driven under by these royalty rates is BS.

kim


______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 24 21:22:01 2002
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Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 21:20:41 -0500
Subject: Re: Panning pedal?
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indeed, i've never come across a better built volume 
pedal.  i have a pair of 6166's and love them to 
death.  i stand on them all the time just for kicks.  
i wouldn't dare stand on my boss volume pedal!

-jim

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Jun 24 21:25:48 2002
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Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 21:24:38 -0500
Subject: radio promotion (was: carp/internet radio stuff)
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speaking of college radio, i work at wusm 88.5 fm in 
hattiesburg, ms and host a show called "amalgam" where 
looped music would fit in very nicely.  if anybody is 
interested in getting airplay here in the south, 
contact me off the list (jimfowler@prodigy.net)

www.wusm.usm.edu

-jim

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-----Original Message-----
Neil thinks:
<snip>
. . . the Substitute function. This feature alone is worth
half a decade or more of musical exploration. Very musically constructive
feature!

**  It is just one of easily a handful of soon to be indispensable features
of the new OS.  Nice job!
I just plugged the SR-16 in (actually out) and although I haven't listened
yet, it looks like driving drums from the EDP is going to be easier than
ever.  I was pleasantly surprised to find MIDI input echoed as soft thru on
the out jack--is this new?  Is there any way to toggle it?
Also, in response to the drum machine irritation factor--I need to resurrect
my Sequential Tom (I think it still works) and plug it into my Alesis D4
(gotta love that storage unit) in time for Rick's Loop Showcase.  I fully
intend to show up and give my half hour's worth of spontaneity there.  Who
all else is going to be there?  I asked Rick and he responded with a hasty
email indicating he was already in Red Queen mode.  Any chance of Swiss or
Brazilian loopers?  I hear the Pittsburgh contingent will show . . . How
about you New York guys?
Gary

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Subject: Re: CARP passed- this sucks.
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At 02:23 PM 6/24/2002, Kevin Goldsmith wrote:
> >and I'm still not seeing how this whole CARP thing takes that away. All the
> >possibilities of DIY are still there, and the internet still offers it. It
> >seems to me it is even better now because musicians have another way to get
> >paid for their work.
> >
>I've been holding my tongue in this debate, but I feel Kim is missing a 
>pretty important point.

with all due respect, I think you are too. You've got a whole bunch of 
points wrong here:

>I'm going to go out on a limb and pull a figure from my butt.  It's a 
>figure based on my own random sampling of internet stations over the last 
>several years.  And that figure is that less than half of the music that 
>is offered for streaming on the internet is music from RIAA aligned 
>musicians.

I don't think that matters, those musicians are still owed royalties 
according to the law and all the information I've found indicates they 
would get paid.

But I don't see any reason not to sign up with the royalty collection 
agency, that would just make it hard for them to pay you. The agency is 
called SoundExchange, and it is free to join it. They explain how the 
royalties are paid and how the system works on their website. go there and 
learn about it:

http://www.soundexchange.com


>That is the big problem.  It's not like these royalties will be 
>administered by ASCAP and BMI (like on commercial and non-commercial radio 
>currently).

Actually, it is a lot like that. Probably better, because you don't have to 
pay a fee to join and the reporting of songs played and royalties owed 
appears to be much more accurate.

>This is cash going straight to the RIAA for ALL music being played on the 
>internet.

No, it is going to a separate organization set up by the RIAA, but ok maybe 
that is the same for some people. They quite clearly explain how the 
royalties they are collecting are paid directly to the artists responsible 
for the recordings, not to Sting or N'Sync. They even have email addresses 
and a phone number you can call if you have questions. If that is not 
enough, Aimee Mann and David Sanborn are on the board, call them.

>I actually think that "less than half" figure is insanely 
>conservative.  So now you have independant stations supporting the major 
>labels even if they don't play major label music.  There is no way to call 
>that fair.

the facts of how the system works are not secret, you can go read about it 
rather than guessing wrong.


>I also run a label.  I webcast songs from the CDs on my label.

Actually, no you don't webcast songs. What you have on your website is 
"interactive downloading". That is not covered by any of this CARP stuff. 
It only covers webcast performances, meaning music programmed by somebody 
else that the listener does not choose, and has streamed at them.

Did you get that? DOWNLOADABLE SONG FILES YOU PUT ON YOUR WEBSITE FOR 
PEOPLE TO LISTEN TO ARE NOT COVERED BY ANY OF THIS!

That is a completely different issue, and such royalty agreements are made 
directly between the copyright holder and whoever has the file on their 
site. So you can stop panicking.

this is also explained on the SoundExchange page under the section about 
royalties they don't handle.

>There is no mechanism in CARP to compensate me as the copyright holder.

yes there is, in the case of webcast recordings. It seems very clear that 
they do compensate you. For example, you have a station on Live365.com, for 
which you would receive royalty payments.

you are right though in the case of your own site, none of which is covered 
by this because it is all downloadable files that the user selects.

>   If I paid the fees for webcasting, I would not see one cent of them in 
> return.  Beyond the idiocy of making me pay to broadcast music I own, the 
> problem is that I wouldn't even get any of that money back.  That is theft.

I think all of those statements are wrong or inaccurate. The Q&A page on 
the SoundExchange site explains a lot of this:
http://www.soundexchange.com/qanda.cfm

kim



______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun 25 01:21:36 2002
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From: Goddess <thefates@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Hi, it's me again...
In-Reply-To: <027001c21ba5$cac028e0$080210ac@jpalmer>
References: <a05100300b93cfad59128@[206.163.94.68]>
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   I've  tried running without the card, and the noise is there regardless.
 I haven't tried the  spdif yet though.  I actually got in contact with the
distributor from whom I got the repeater a few days ago, and I'll probably
be taking it in there to see what they tell me from their experience with
them.  We'll see...  

Smiles,

G

At 12:37 PM 6/24/02 -0500, you wrote:
>noise from accessing the cf card leaks into the audio path
>(quite loud in the headphone out, less so in the line outs)
>try running without the card to see if this is the noise you are hearing...
>
>running +4 balanced helps reduce this noise a lot.
>using the digital outs should eliminate it...
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Goddess" <thefates@earthlink.net>
>To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
>Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 12:22 PM
>Subject: Re: Hi, it's me again...
>
>
>>   OK, back for another quickie...  I read the faq, and it still doesn't
>> seem to quite be addressing the same issue I seem to be having.  This is
>> not ordinary hiss or hum or buzz.  Someone else here described it quite
>> well as being thin, papery and comb filtery.  It seems to be at about 120
>> to 130 hz or so, and fluctuates as a pitch shifter would when it can't
>> quite settle on the correct note.  It also seems to be dependant on the
>> input side of things rather than the output, regardless of whether there's
>> any signal going into it at all.    It also reminds me of the lower
>> frequencies of when  a tube is going bad, how it sort of whines unsteadily
>> and sounds really pathetic!  lol!  -but instead of a higher pitched whine,
>> as might happen in most cases, it's a lower pitched one, as is sometimes
>> the case.  Anyway,  <smile>   -If all that makes sense to anyone and they
>> are aware of what's going on, *looks extra extra extra cute*  please please
>> please let me know...   <smile>  I may see about getting a replacement for
>> this one anyway today.  We'll see.  Anyway, bye for now, have an awesome
>> day!, K?  
>> 
>> Laters,
>> 
>> G-Girl
>
>
>


---

  "The only things I really think are important, are love, and eachother.
-Then, anything is possible..."  

http://home.earthlink.net/~thefates

Please visit The Guitar Cafe.  

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-guitar-cafe 


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Subject: Mind Boggling LoopIV
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 22:32:31 -0700
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Here's something to watch out for--
Assuming I'm not the only dunderhead on this list, I thought I would share
tonight's misadventure (I thought the chips had malfunctioned)--
When you change Insert to sus, it also affects Multiply!  This is well
documented but (at least in my case) easily overlooked.
OK, I'm the only stoopnagel . . .
G

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Hi Neil-

Glad you are enjoying it!

I believe I have finally gotten caught up to the present in sending out 
LoopIV upgrade orders today, so everybody who has been waiting should have 
it soon. Thanks for your patience, and thanks especially to Hans for 
providing an appropriate beverage for this project.

kim

At 11:33 AM 6/24/2002, Neil Goldstein wrote:
>Just an accolade for the Substitute function. This feature alone is worth
>half a decade or more of musical exploration. Very musically constructive
>feature! No excuse not to "edit" those loops now...
>
>NOTE: Aside from the convenience of DirectMidi, etc. I think the IV manual
>addendum is clearly written, such that experimenting with 'advanced'
>features is more inviting.

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com

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Gary Lehmann wrote:
> 
> Here's something to watch out for--
> When you change Insert to sus, it also affects Multiply!  This is well
> documented but (at least in my case) easily overlooked.

Yeah, I've done that a bit myself.  You can actually hear this happen by
mistake in one of my LoopIV mp3's... but it sounded kind of cool.  (Any
landing you can walk away from...)

Right now my "default" PMC set up has SUS-Replace, SUS-Insert, and
SUS-Unrounded Multiply right next to each other.  I use this in Stutter
mode.  Makes one bloody hell of a racket!  :)  (And also allows
Sus-Insert and "regular" Multiply to happily co-exist...)

--A

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun 25 02:38:19 2002
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all that work spent writing the manual and he doesn't even read it.....

At 10:32 PM 6/24/2002, Gary Lehmann wrote:
>Here's something to watch out for--
>Assuming I'm not the only dunderhead on this list, I thought I would share
>tonight's misadventure (I thought the chips had malfunctioned)--
>When you change Insert to sus, it also affects Multiply!  This is well
>documented but (at least in my case) easily overlooked.
>OK, I'm the only stoopnagel . . .
>G

yes that is correct. InsertMode=SUS affects both the Multiply and Insert 
Buttons. This is how you do the granular looping thing, and the effect of 
SUSMultiply and SUSInsert are somewhat different from each other.

If you want the more complete granular effect make sure to also set 
RecordMode and OverdubMode to SUS.

And then if you really want to be totally granular, look at the DirectMIDI 
functions. We expanded the MIDI command set a lot, and there is a whole set 
of SUS mode commands there for just about everything. This way you can 
program a midi controller or use a midi keyboard to have all of them 
available at once. You can go really nuts with this stuff, so be careful - 
you may cause serious damage to small children or boring adults.

Of course there is the usual stuff available from the front, like 
SUSRecord, SUSOverdub, SUSMultiply, and SUSInsert. But then we've also got 
SUSReplace, SUSSubstitute, SUSReverse, SUShalfspeed, SUSMute. Those are 
great fun, you can zap in and out of those functions at lightning speed, 
creating all sorts of interesting textures and sounds and chopped up loops. 
Leave overdub on while doing quick stabs of SUShalfspeed, that's a good 
one. For me, these things are just wide open for experimenting, so I'm 
really interested to hear what people come up with.

Since the usual SUSMultiply and SUSInsert are Unrounded (which does the 
granular kind of thing), we also completed that picture with rounded 
versions in MIDI. So for a more normal use you have SUSRoundMultiply and 
SUSRoundInsert. This basically means they start Multiply (or Insert) when 
you press the button down, and when you release the button it ends Multiply 
in the normal Rounded fashion. (meaning it rounds off to the next cycle and 
you've got the cycles counting up neatly afterwards.)  This is just helpful 
as another way to control Multiply and Insert, since a lot of people seem 
to like that Sustain action on the switches for control. It can be helpful 
because you always know the function is only going while you have the 
button pressed, and when you let go it is off. If you aren't pushing it, it 
ain't on.

Then there are a couple oddball SUS functions that have some interesting 
possibilities. SUSNextLoop and SUSMuteRetrigger. SUSMuteRetrigger Mutes the 
loop when you press the button down, and Retriggers it from the start when 
you let go. That's a handy way to mute everything for a solo break and then 
bring it all back together on the down beat when you are ready. Or dream up 
your own creative use.

Then there is that SUSNextLoop. That actually jumps you into the Next loop 
when you press it down, and sends you back to the previous loop when you 
let go. If you press it really fast you'll jump back and forth for quick 
staccato bits of live sound construction. Or you could use it as a more 
musically controllable way to shift between loops - you lean into it and go 
into the sound of the next loop, pull back to come into the base loop, etc.

oh, one other thing with SUSNextLoop. (this is in the manual). The NoteOn 
message sends you into the NextLoop, and the NoteOff message sends you to 
the previous loop. If you set up a midi controller to only send the 
NoteOff, that becomes a Previous loop button! So you can have one button 
just send the NoteOn to go up, and another sends the NoteOff to go down, 
and you've got Loop increment/decrement! (also, for the midi-note 
challenged, all of this also works with Continuous Controller messages, 
where a positive value on the given controller is the same as NoteOn, and a 
0 value is the same as NoteOff.)

Ok, go make noise now.

kim



______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com

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At 08:20 PM 6/24/2002, Gary Lehmann wrote:
>I just plugged the SR-16 in (actually out) and although I haven't listened
>yet, it looks like driving drums from the EDP is going to be easier than
>ever.

It should be. Synchronization improvements are one the most exciting and 
dramatic new aspects of LoopIV.

To me ReAlign is one of the most exciting things about LoopIV. I simply 
love it. ReAlign makes everything about synchronization 1000 times better 
and more useful. It is so exciting to me, I mean *nothing* else does this. 
When you have multiple devices in sync, you can do anything you want to the 
Echoplex to knock it out of phase with the other guys. Reverse, HalfSpeed, 
retrigger, etc. Play every kind of rhythmic phase and syncopation game you 
want. The echoplex keeps track of everything all the way through, 
maintaining sync and keeping track of all the downbeats. Then when you want 
to pull it all back together again for that incredible rhythmic 
tension-release, you just hit ReAlign and slam it back together again. It's 
beautiful!

Plus the ever practical uses. Stop the sequencer to do some editing, then 
start it up again dead in sync. It works either way, whether the EDP is the 
clock master or the slave.

Plus you have SyncRecord, for everybody who hates being forced into 
quantization. Now when you are syncing to another source you can start 
recording at any time. No need to wait for the downbeat if you don't want 
to. The echoplex  will keep track of everything and keep you in sync. You 
don't even have to wait for a full bar of the other device to play. As soon 
as sync appears, LoopIV lets you start recording. It keeps track of the 
time while the Record is going. When you end Record, it rounds off to where 
it is supposed to and locks in the sync. It is so easy...

And you can all thank Claude for it. He is the maniac that insisted and 
made it real....

>I was pleasantly surprised to find MIDI input echoed as soft thru on
>the out jack--is this new?

yes, this is the MIDIpipe feature. It really is helpful now for switching 
configurations between different sync clock masters, or different stereo vs 
multitrack setups. You don't have to go rewire your midi connections all 
the time.

>Is there any way to toggle it?

no, but is is not a dumb merge function. It has intelligence to pipe things 
that are supposed to get piped and not pipe things that are not. So for 
example you don't end up with double clocks or such. the idea was that you 
should be able to plug in your rack and forget about it.

kim



______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com

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I'm interested in using the EDP in a rhythm section to layer funk
grooves. How easy is it to get everything locked on a nice tight 2 bar
segment? Does the new software extend the quantization capabilities? Do
I need to be lightning fast with the footpedal or does the loop IV s/w
help determine the correct length of the loop?

-----Original Message-----
From: Kim Flint [mailto:kflint@loopers-delight.com] 
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 11:59 PM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: RE: Loop IV: Substitute is awesome

At 08:20 PM 6/24/2002, Gary Lehmann wrote:
>I just plugged the SR-16 in (actually out) and although I haven't
listened
>yet, it looks like driving drums from the EDP is going to be easier
than
>ever.

It should be. Synchronization improvements are one the most exciting and

dramatic new aspects of LoopIV.

To me ReAlign is one of the most exciting things about LoopIV. I simply 
love it. ReAlign makes everything about synchronization 1000 times
better 
and more useful. It is so exciting to me, I mean *nothing* else does
this. 
When you have multiple devices in sync, you can do anything you want to
the 
Echoplex to knock it out of phase with the other guys. Reverse,
HalfSpeed, 
retrigger, etc. Play every kind of rhythmic phase and syncopation game
you 
want. The echoplex keeps track of everything all the way through, 
maintaining sync and keeping track of all the downbeats. Then when you
want 
to pull it all back together again for that incredible rhythmic 
tension-release, you just hit ReAlign and slam it back together again.
It's 
beautiful!

Plus the ever practical uses. Stop the sequencer to do some editing,
then 
start it up again dead in sync. It works either way, whether the EDP is
the 
clock master or the slave.

Plus you have SyncRecord, for everybody who hates being forced into 
quantization. Now when you are syncing to another source you can start 
recording at any time. No need to wait for the downbeat if you don't
want 
to. The echoplex  will keep track of everything and keep you in sync.
You 
don't even have to wait for a full bar of the other device to play. As
soon 
as sync appears, LoopIV lets you start recording. It keeps track of the 
time while the Record is going. When you end Record, it rounds off to
where 
it is supposed to and locks in the sync. It is so easy...

And you can all thank Claude for it. He is the maniac that insisted and 
made it real....

>I was pleasantly surprised to find MIDI input echoed as soft thru on
>the out jack--is this new?

yes, this is the MIDIpipe feature. It really is helpful now for
switching 
configurations between different sync clock masters, or different stereo
vs 
multitrack setups. You don't have to go rewire your midi connections all

the time.

>Is there any way to toggle it?

no, but is is not a dumb merge function. It has intelligence to pipe
things 
that are supposed to get piped and not pipe things that are not. So for 
example you don't end up with double clocks or such. the idea was that
you 
should be able to plug in your rack and forget about it.

kim



______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun 25 03:09:18 2002
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From: "Neil Goldstein" <ngold@attbi.com>
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Subject: RE: Mind Boggling LoopIV
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 23:53:18 -0700
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> Right now my "default" PMC set up has SUS-Replace, SUS-Insert, and
> SUS-Unrounded Multiply right next to each other.  I use this in Stutter
> mode.  Makes one bloody hell of a racket!  :)  (And also allows
> Sus-Insert and "regular" Multiply to happily co-exist...)



Could you elaborate on what the story is with Stutter Mode? (as if there
isn't enough going on in the default Loop mode!)

NG

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Yo Neil,

Neil Goldstein wrote:

> Could you elaborate on what the story is with Stutter Mode? (as if there
> isn't enough going on in the default Loop mode!)

The very short answer is that it turns certain Insert modes into very
cool and unusual Multiply modes.

The longer answer (in terms of how I'm using it) can be found at

http://www.altruistmusic.com/EDP/tg.html

It's all over a lot of the LoopIV mp3's, as well as the "Continuous Mix"
RealAudio streams.

(Wow, it's nice to already have these answers conveniently typed up and link-able!)

C ya,

--Andre LaFosse
The Echoplex Analysis Pages:
http://www.altruistmusic.com/EDP

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun 25 03:29:27 2002
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At 10:53 AM 6/24/2002, jim palmer wrote:
>first let me say that i have had some great fun this weekend with loop 
>windowing.

glad you are enjoying it!


>this may be a limitation and not a bug.
>i was not that familiar with loop 3, so it may not be a new thing either.
>
>1. record initial loop (mine was 2 beats. i left 8ths per beat at 8 - 
>shouldn't matter, though).
>2. overdub two passes.
>3. multiply out to 4 cycles.
>4. undo. (this removes what was overdubbed during multiply but leaves the 
>loop at 4 cycles)
>     seems to me that we should now have a one cycle loop, but not a big deal.
>
>5. undo again.
>
>now we have the original loop as cycle 1, the first overdub (step 2a) as 
>cycle 2 and cycles 3 and 4 are the original cycle plus both
>overdubs from step 2.
>
>strange.

yes, it seems strange. It is in fact the LoopWindowing that you are 
experiencing. Whenever you do an Undo past the point where a Multiply was 
completed, you will be in LoopWindow territory. You start windowing back 
into past bits of memory a bit. It can be a little odd if you don't expect 
it or understand what is going on. Once you get the hang of the idea that 
you are windowing back in the memory it will make a little more sense.

>but if this is the price to pay for loop windowing, then it is worth it.

yes, LoopWindowing is great fun. But LoopWindows are not a trivial idea in 
any case. It takes a little effort to beat this feature into submission and 
make it do as you command. It's still wild and fun before that, but it 
might seem a little random and unpredictable before you get the hang of 
what is going on. Once you master it, you will have great power and joy. 
The best ones are like that.

kim



______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com

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Subject: OT: Guitar scale prog- 
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 00:32:41 -0700
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Hello-=20

=20

I have been looking for a simple PC program that would allow the display
of scales across the guitar neck for viewing/printing- but the clencher
seems to be to find one that allows the user to define the scale of
their choice. I have found plenty with interesting and numerous scales
to choose from but none that allow custom scales or even 8 tone scales
etc. If anyone knows of such a prog please let me know. Also, being able
to create custom chord diagrams to be printed would also be nice-=20

=20

Cliff

=20

PS- I appreciate the informative dialogs in progress regarding LoopIV
and CARP- thanks everyone- the =93Loop Saving=94 folder grows and grows!

=20

http://www.om-studios.com <http://www.om-studios.com/>=20

=20


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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
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font-family:Arial'>Hello- </span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

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style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I h</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span
 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font =
size=3D2
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>ve been =
looking for
</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
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style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> simple PC progr</span></font><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
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size=3D2
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>m =
th</span></font><font
 size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>t would </span></font><font
 size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>llow the
displ</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
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 font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>y of sc</span></font><font =
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style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>les </span></font><font
 size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>cross the
guit</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
 font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>r neck for =
viewing/printing- but the
clencher seems to be to find one th</span></font><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font =
size=3D2
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>t =
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size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>llows the
user to define the sc</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span
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size=3D2
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>le of =
their choice.
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style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
 font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>ve found plenty with =
interesting </span></font><font
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style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>nd numerous
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style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
 font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>les to choose from but none =
th</span></font><font
 size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>t </span></font><font
 size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>llow custom
sc</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
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style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>les or even 8 tone =
sc</span></font><font
 size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>les etc. If =
</span></font><font
 size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>nyone knows
of such </span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
 font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> prog =
ple</span></font><font size=3D2
 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>se let me
know. Also, being </span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>ble to =
cre</span></font><font
 size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>te custom
chord di</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
 font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>gr</span></font><font =
size=3D2
 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>ms to be
printed would </span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>lso be nice- =
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Cliff</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>PS- I </span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span
 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font =
size=3D2
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>ppreci</span></font><font
 size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>te the
inform</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
 font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>tive di</span></font><font =
size=3D2
 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>logs in
progress reg</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
 font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>rding LoopIV =
</span></font><font
 size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>nd CARP- =
th</span></font><font
 size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>nks
everyone- the =93Loop S</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span
 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font =
size=3D2
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>ving=94 =
folder
grows </span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
 font-family:Arial'>a</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>nd grows!</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><a =
href=3D"http://www.om-studios.com/">http://www.om-studios.com</a></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
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> Of course there is the usual stuff available from the front, like 
>  SUSRecord, SUSOverdub, SUSMultiply, and SUSInsert. But then we've also got 
>  SUSReplace, SUSSubstitute, SUSReverse, SUShalfspeed, SUSMute. Those are 
>  great fun, you can zap in and out of those functions at lightning speed, 

actually, the Replace and Substitute functions on the footpedal 
(set from InsertMode) are SUS functions already.
The TOG variation is the one only available from MIDI.

Didn't know about SUSNextLoop and SUSMute-Retrigger though,
somehow I missed those completely.
sounds like "LaFosse" territory to me ;-)


Just waiting to see what tricks will
appear out of all these new features,
....so many combinations yet to be tried. 

andy butler

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At 12:03 AM 6/25/2002, Si Butler wrote:
>I'm interested in using the EDP in a rhythm section to layer funk
>grooves. How easy is it to get everything locked on a nice tight 2 bar
>segment?

I think it is pretty easy. It depends on your circumstances a bit, as it 
would with any looper.

In LoopIV you have the ability to preset a Tempo before recording the loop 
and then record a loop exactly to that BPM. There are some options to fine 
tune this and retrigger the start point if you need to, for the EDP version 
of turntable beat matching. This may be what you are looking for.

Also there are new triggering options that make it simple to retrigger a 
loop. Sometimes in a band situation what you really need is a quick way to 
retrigger your loop to line it up with the down beat again. It is a sort of 
"manual sync" but I've often found it to be the most useful. We gave some 
easy options for this in LoopIV.

If you are otherwise using midi clock, then you are totally set. the sync 
functions of LoopIV are excellent in that case and you have many 
possibilities to get a tight groove locked in. Things like ReAlign and 
SyncRecord will do a lot for you there.

>Does the new software extend the quantization capabilities?

yes. You can quantize to the cycle point as before, or the new options of 
quantizing to the 8th note or quantizing to the overall loop startpoint. 
When it quantizes to 8th note, it really quantizes to a subdivision of the 
loop based on the parameter called 8ths/cycle. This can be set to anything, 
so this quantization could just as easily be quarter notes or 16ths or 
sevens or whatever.


>Do
>I need to be lightning fast with the footpedal or does the loop IV s/w
>help determine the correct length of the loop?

We've always tried to maintain both approaches. For those who want tight 
rhythm there are many functions that allow the EDP to maintain very tight 
grooves and take care of all the precision for you. Or you can be totally 
free and do things whenever you want. Loop always gave you the choice, 
LoopIV gives you even more.

For you, things like sync, quantizing, rounding, and triggering will 
probably be what you want for a more groove oriented approach.

kim



______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com

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At 12:40 AM 6/25/2002, SoundFNR@aol.com wrote:
>Didn't know about SUSNextLoop and SUSMute-Retrigger though,
>somehow I missed those completely.
>sounds like "LaFosse" territory to me ;-)

I don't know where SUSnext came from, I think Matthias actually came up 
with that with his ever Swiss need to carry an idea precisely all the way 
through. But yes it definitely has an Andre aspect to it.

SUSMute-Retrigger sounds more like one of my "dance music needs this!" type 
of functions.


>Just waiting to see what tricks will
>appear out of all these new features,
>....so many combinations yet to be tried.

Yes it is true. So much of LoopIV is just a big empty canvas because it is 
all new. I'm dying to hear what people will do with it. We worked so hard 
to make sure it all worked and plugged together right and all remained 
consistent. But what the creative minds out there will do with it we can 
have no idea. Even during beta testing we were amazed by the crazy stuff 
you guys started dreaming up. We can't wait to see where the rest of the 
world takes it.

What happens when you mix SUSNextLoop with LoopCopy? or stutter mode? or 
different loop triggering options and quantize=8th? I don't even know. 
Somebody dive into it and record something so we can find out!

kim


______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com

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O list,

Part of the Santa Cruz Looping Festival on July 13 and 14 will involve a
three-way clinic between Rick Walker, Bill Walker, and myself.  We'll be
presenting the Lin6 DL4, the Repeater, and the EDP with LoopIV, and this
will also double as one giant performance segment for the three of us (a
la Jon and Matthias' Loopstock set).

My question is: are there any specific topics, features, or other
details people are interested in seeing discussed or employed,
particularly in the context of the gig?  There will be much more to talk
about than we'll have time to present, so it would be helpful to have a
sense of what people are specifically interested in hearing about.  

If anyone who was at the LoopIV release party back in April has any
thoughts on bits that they liked (or that they thought didn't go over so
well), that might be useful to know as we think in terms of how to
structure and present the clinic.

One thing I personally am really interested in is exploring different
ways that the unique feature sets of each looper can be highlighted and
made to work together in conjunction with one another.  For instance,
one thing I really want to try is having Bill's Repeater slaved to MIDI
clock from my EDP, and redefining the length of the EDP loop (as well as
its 8th/cycle value) to trigger the Repeater's timestretching feature,
so that it expands and contracts its loop length in order to adapt to
the changing length and 8th/beat values on the EDP.  Or reversing the
formula, and using LoopIV's Realign to break in and out of sync being
sent from the Repeater.

Things like this would be tremendous fun to try out, and would also help
the three of us figure out what to play and how to structure it in terms
of solo/duo/trio performances.  Especially since I've never played with
either Rick or Bill before (let alone both of them at the same time)!

Any suggestions are welcome, and for my part will be a big help in
figuring out how to structure my own angle on the gig.

C ya,

--Andre LaFosse
The Echoplex Analysis Pages:
http://www.altruistmusic.com/EDP

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun 25 08:47:08 2002
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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 07:46:02 -0500
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Kim,

I know you said it doesn't matter whether the EDP is sync master or
slave, but if you had a choice, which would be preferred?

Can you describe how the EDP establishes tempo ... Is it via some sort
of tap tempo or is it based on the length of the loop?  I also read
somewhere that the EDP can even be used to establish tempo as master
sync without even recording anything or actually looping.  How is this
done?

Thanks,
Steve


> 
> It should be. Synchronization improvements are one the most 
> exciting and 
> dramatic new aspects of LoopIV.
> 
> To me ReAlign is one of the most exciting things about 
> LoopIV. I simply 
> love it. ReAlign makes everything about synchronization 1000 
> times better 
> and more useful. It is so exciting to me, I mean *nothing* 
> else does this. 
> When you have multiple devices in sync, you can do anything 
> you want to the 
> Echoplex to knock it out of phase with the other guys. 
> Reverse, HalfSpeed, 
> retrigger, etc. Play every kind of rhythmic phase and 
> syncopation game you 
> want. The echoplex keeps track of everything all the way through, 
> maintaining sync and keeping track of all the downbeats. Then 
> when you want 
> to pull it all back together again for that incredible rhythmic 
> tension-release, you just hit ReAlign and slam it back 
> together again. It's 
> beautiful!
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun 25 09:57:05 2002
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"Oh."

That's about all I could come up with after realizing I will miss this, my
tongue swollen with disappointment.  Please tell me you will be videotaping
the seminar.

Lindsay
sonic detritus:
left of eliot
http://leftofeliot.iuma.com

 -----Original Message-----
From: 	Andre LaFosse [mailto:altruist@earthlink.net] 
Sent:	Tuesday, June 25, 2002 4:50 AM
To:	loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com; GLOBAL@cruzio.com
Subject:	Solicitation for Looping Clinic Topics

O list,

Part of the Santa Cruz Looping Festival on July 13 and 14 will involve a
three-way clinic between Rick Walker, Bill Walker, and myself.  We'll be
presenting the Lin6 DL4, the Repeater, and the EDP with LoopIV, and this
will also double as one giant performance segment for the three of us (a
la Jon and Matthias' Loopstock set).

My question is: are there any specific topics, features, or other
details people are interested in seeing discussed or employed,
particularly in the context of the gig?  There will be much more to talk
about than we'll have time to present, so it would be helpful to have a
sense of what people are specifically interested in hearing about.  

If anyone who was at the LoopIV release party back in April has any
thoughts on bits that they liked (or that they thought didn't go over so
well), that might be useful to know as we think in terms of how to
structure and present the clinic.

One thing I personally am really interested in is exploring different
ways that the unique feature sets of each looper can be highlighted and
made to work together in conjunction with one another.  For instance,
one thing I really want to try is having Bill's Repeater slaved to MIDI
clock from my EDP, and redefining the length of the EDP loop (as well as
its 8th/cycle value) to trigger the Repeater's timestretching feature,
so that it expands and contracts its loop length in order to adapt to
the changing length and 8th/beat values on the EDP.  Or reversing the
formula, and using LoopIV's Realign to break in and out of sync being
sent from the Repeater.

Things like this would be tremendous fun to try out, and would also help
the three of us figure out what to play and how to structure it in terms
of solo/duo/trio performances.  Especially since I've never played with
either Rick or Bill before (let alone both of them at the same time)!

Any suggestions are welcome, and for my part will be a big help in
figuring out how to structure my own angle on the gig.

C ya,

--Andre LaFosse
The Echoplex Analysis Pages:
http://www.altruistmusic.com/EDP

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun 25 10:44:47 2002
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Subject: looping: a structural approch...
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dear all


whenever I've time I take tours in your webpages
trying to listen and understand what everybody do with the looping

It's very interesting trying to identify the not always conscious 
process underlying
the operation of looping.

Most of the times the first, almost instictive use of this technology 
is a kinda of antidote to solitude
I.e.: I play by myself, but myself is me and my looping tools, that 
multiply me and create other me (mainly comping, riffing or 
droning...) so that I can play over that my solo, my solo, my 
solo...and so on.

This is what I call the lonesome guitarist complex...
looks very blue-eyed, I know, but believe it or not, it's what most of us do
(I'm not calling myself out...)

out from there opens a vaste land of possibilities:
where technology is no more a way to represent something
or to fill a gap

I thought it would be interesting and usefull trying to describe 
these operations
and try to build an archetypal or structural alphabet or a list of 
possible processes
analyzed not in their concrete sequences of interactions with the 
machine/machines
but under a more abstract point of view, whichever is the concrete 
interpretation one can give
of that

I'll bring just a couple of examples of looping- concepts I sometime use:

THE HIDDEN PLOT
Start overdubbing layers with seemingly no rythmic sense.
the rythmic meaning comes at the end of the overdubbing
as a inexpected final result

COMP MOVING
instead of looping the comping, loop the melody.
Then start comping over moving and changing the harmonic sense
of the phrase.

I m's just considering now a tipical static way of interpretating the 
loop thing.
Obviously structures become more and more complex when they become
dynamic, for instance with feedback, substitutions, etc.

so what do we do when we loop?
Is there someone willing to share this?

thank you

bruno



-- 

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Like Andre, I would like some input to a presentation I will be doing 
at the Y2K2 LOOPFEST in Santa Cruz.  I'll be giving a short talk 
about the history of looping. A lot of what I'll cover is well 
presented in Michael Peters' "The Birth of Loop" on the Loopers 
Delight Web site:

<http://www.loopers-delight.com/history/Loophist.html>

If anyone has something to add to to that material please post it to 
the list. I already know about Hugh LeCaine's 1955 "Dripsody" (made 
with the first version of his Special Purpose Tape Recorder) and 
Karlheinz Stockhausen's 1966 "Solo" (performed with a custom tape 
delay system). I'd especially welcome any information about Les 
Paul's early use of tape loops, Pierre Schaeffer's Morphophone, Otto 
Luening's tape system, and other lesser-known systems.

The Vintage Echo Units pages at:
http://homepages.enterprise.net/greenworld/index.htm
are a wealth of information about commercial tape-loop based systems, 
but if anyone has supplementary information it would be useful 
(especially some particulars on the Watkins Copy-Cat).
-- 

______________________________________________________________
Richard Zvonar, PhD
(818) 788-2202
http://www.zvonar.com
http://RZCybernetics.com
http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun 25 11:19:18 2002
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> The very short answer is that it turns certain Insert modes into very
> cool and unusual Multiply modes.
>
> The longer answer (in terms of how I'm using it) can be found at
>
> http://www.altruistmusic.com/EDP/tg.html
>
> It's all over a lot of the LoopIV mp3's, as well as the "Continuous Mix"
> RealAudio streams.
>
> (Wow, it's nice to already have these answers conveniently typed
> up and link-able!)

Thanks Andre

Will listen, study, experiment, open my mind, and enjoy the journey!

Images of a room full of mirrors of many sizes facing each other, one
sometimes asks: where is the "One"?

Neil

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In a message dated 6/25/02 10:44:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
brunoklein@ideastudioweb.com writes:


> COMP MOVING
> instead of looping the comping, loop the melody.
> Then start comping over moving and changing the harmonic sense
> of the phrase.
> 

bruno.....thanks for this idea, im off to give it a try.....michael

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 6/25/02 10:44:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time, brunoklein@ideastudioweb.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">COMP MOVING<BR>
instead of looping the comping, loop the melody.<BR>
Then start comping over moving and changing the harmonic sense<BR>
of the phrase.<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
bruno.....thanks for this idea, im off to give it a try.....michael</FONT></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun 25 12:11:11 2002
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How about a two favorites of mine:

One I haven't done in a while, but a goodie, is to start something 
fairly arhythmic, and droney.  But KILL your loop output as you're 
making it.  Then slowly bring up the audio.  Surprise!  NOW DEAL WITH IT.

Second one, which I do all the time, is only possible with a Repeater.  
Put a processor with a "high mangleage factor" (mangle factor of 7 or 
higher is best) into the effects loop of the Repeater, then as you're 
recording your loop, have it on the output of the loop.  With the 
Repeater, you're effect will NOT be on the imput, so you'll only here 
effected sound at the first iteration of your loop.  Again, it can be a 
fun surprise.  If you're processor has a way to control parameters in 
real time (almost all do) put your instrument down at some point, and 
just spend time screwing around with the loop.  Later, for bonus, bring 
the mix down to dry only, and find out what your uneffected loop sounds 
like.  The Repeater doesn't actually apply the effect to your loop 
unless you've got it set to be on the input, or you resample your loop.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun 25 14:59:26 2002
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From: "Neil Goldstein" <ngold@attbi.com>
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Subject: RE: Mind Boggling LoopIV
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 11:43:39 -0700
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Andre

In trying to understand Stutter mode I took a few minutes to listen
intensively to "Generator" to try to analyze what you were doing (when I
should be doing other things :-). A lot happens fast but it is a great
exercise to try to "name that function". *Correct* me, fill in the blanks
and elaborate if you can, just with the first half-minute or so:

1. Single 1/4 note played once
2. Immediately multiplied into staccato 16ths
3. Becomes 1/4 note again (is that an Undo?)
4. Half-speed: which becomes basic loop (in 'bass' register)
5. Harmonics layed on top using overdub? or insert?
6. at 0:40 Reversed, further processing

Etc...

Up to the :30 mark, this is just a single loop?

What I'm trying to get up to speed on is the Insert functions behaviour in
Stutter mode (away from my EDP, using words, which is a sign of how much
this thing has gotten under my skin). You say

>>>There is also a "SingleCycle Multiply" available in Stutter mode when
Insertmode=Insert, and causes stuttery repetitions of cycles within a
loop.>>>

Is that how you get that effect early in this piece? where it sounds like
only the overdub is changing, and the basic loop is unaffected. Is that what
subcycle multiply sounds like.

It is confusing to talk about (even you admit it), but thought I'd keep my
eye on the ball for a while..

Thanks

Neil

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun 25 16:11:48 2002
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Subject: lexicon mpx1 vs. lxp1 
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 15:08:24 +0100
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i've narrowed down my search for a reverb unit to the following.  how do
they compare?  i'm sure i'll get around to using the other effects, but i'm
particularly interested in reverbs and other subtle ambiences.

-jim

p.s. - i've already scoured the archives.


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun 25 16:18:07 2002
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Subject: new developments on the Repeater noise front...
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  Hi everyone, to  those who've been following this thread and who may be
interested, I was able to track down a bit better last night, what this
noise is and where it might be comming from.  It seems to be the unit
itself generating processing interference which it's picking up in the
audio signal chain.  -More precisely, in the input stages of the audio
signal chain.  When I engaged the erase mode, the modulated noise stopped,
and didn't continue until I either selected tracks to be erased, or pressed
the undo/erase button again.  So somehow, interference fromthe the
processing for other modes of the unit, or it's main processing algorithms
is being picked up in the input section of the audio signal chain.  I've
thought of a couple of ways this might be happening, one of which involves
the power chord.  Anyway, I've gotten in touch with the distributor from
whom I got the Repeater and with Electrix, so we'll see...  <smile>  -Just
thought some might be interested...  Have an awesome day!, K?  

Smiles,

G-Girl




---

  "The only things I really think are important, are love, and eachother.
-Then, anything is possible..."  

http://home.earthlink.net/~thefates

Please visit The Guitar Cafe.  

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-guitar-cafe 


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun 25 16:27:04 2002
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i had this same issue until i bought shielded cables. 
problem solved.
regards
c

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun 25 17:23:58 2002
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I can vouch for the MPX1 being a great little box, and since it's been
discontinued, you could get a deal (see archives) but as for the LXP1, it
don't know.  It's an older model, but you might find them on eBay.  I've been
able to get really good dense reverb washes with all kinds of cool modulation
with the MPX1, it was more than worth the $425 I paid, IMO.

Mark

Jimmy Fowler wrote:

> i've narrowed down my search for a reverb unit to the following.  how do
> they compare?  i'm sure i'll get around to using the other effects, but i'm
> particularly interested in reverbs and other subtle ambiences.
>
> -jim
>
> p.s. - i've already scoured the archives.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Jun 25 17:25:20 2002
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Hi Neil,

> *Correct* me, fill in the blanks
> and elaborate if you can, just with the first half-minute or so:
> 
> 1. Single 1/4 note played once

Yes.

> 2. Immediately multiplied into staccato 16ths

Yes and no.  :()  This is Insert=SUS, but because it's used in Stutter
mode, it performs multiples *within* a section of a loop, for as long as
the Insert button is held down.  Notice how the sound of the first note
sort of "stretches out"?  That's what's happening.  I call this SubCycle
Multiply.  

> 3. Becomes 1/4 note again (is that an Undo?)

I don't know how that little space of sound got in there; it wad
recorded before I had my PMC, so it wasn't Replace.  This is why I don't
transcribe the stuff: I can never remember what I was doing!

> 4. Half-speed: which becomes basic loop (in 'bass' register)

Yep.

> 5. Harmonics layed on top using overdub? or insert?

Definitely Overdubbed in this case.

> 6. at 0:40 Reversed, further processing

Yes, though I wouldn't use the term "processing," since I don't really
think of the EDP as an "effect" per se, and there's nothing in the
signal chain other than a guitar and Echoplex.

> Up to the :30 mark, this is just a single loop?

There's actually no loop switching heard until about 1:45 or so, so yes,
everything here is one loop, being constantly redefined and edited using
Insert=SUS.  You can really hear SubCycle Multiply kick in around :38;
every repetition of a sound you hear comes from stepping on the Insert
button to stretch segments of the loop out, and the entire loop is one
cycle long.  I use this technique a lot: throw a bunch of sound at the
EDP and then sculpt it after the fact, until it assumes a tangible
rhythm or structure.

> >>>There is also a "SingleCycle Multiply" available in Stutter mode when
> Insertmode=Insert, and causes stuttery repetitions of cycles within a
> loop.>>>
> 
> Is that how you get that effect early in this piece? 

No, there's no SingleCycle Multiply in this one.  It's kind of a similar
thing to SubCycle Multiply, with a couple of important differences:

1) SingleCycle creates repetitions (or "stutters") within a loop on a
cycle-length basis.  In other words, if you have a loop of multiple
cycles, and you hit Insert (with Insertmode=Insert), then you'll start
repeating individual cycles (or if quantize=off, cycle-length
repetitions, which aren't necessarily clocked to the strict beginnings
and ends of the cycles themselves).

2) There are three things you can do at this point: Let the stutters
repeat over and over again, hit Insert a second time to insert each of
those stutters into the loop, or hit Undo and have the loop revert back
to a normal, un-stuttered state.  

You can always change Interface Mode within a loop, of course, to build
up a mutli-cycle loop in Loop mode, and then go into Stutter mode just
for this sort of thing...

It makes much more sense when you're sitting in front of an EDP doing
all of this, I promise!

--Andre LaFosse
The Echoplex Analysis Pages:
http://www.altruistmusic.com/EDP

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 Yes and no.  :()  This is Insert=SUS, but because it's used in Stutter
> mode, it performs multiples *within* a section of a loop, for as long as
> the Insert button is held down.  Notice how the sound of the first note
> sort of "stretches out"?  That's what's happening.  I call this SubCycle
> Multiply.
snip

>You can always change Interface Mode within a loop, of course, to build
>up a mutli-cycle loop in Loop mode, and then go into Stutter mode just
>for this sort of thing...


Thanks Andre! Lots clearer now, and sounds awesome!

I see that new Insert=SUS is something to contend with!  Missed that as:

I attacked this upgrade by programming a bunch of banks on the PMC using
lots of DirectMidi commands, to just try things out.  There's lots of
overlap on the commands, with various ones being "enharmonic" depending on
the Parameter set...

Seems like careful programming (and writing on paper for easy recall!) of
Presets will pay off big time, and allow for fewer banks.

Wonder what's the latency for Preset changes via midi prg change?

Thanks for your patient explanations, y'all...


    _/      _/  _/_/_/  _/  _/
   _/_/    _/  _/      _/  _/
  _/  _/  _/  _/_/    _/  _/
 _/    _/_/  _/      _/  _/
_/      _/  _/_/_/  _/  _/_/_/

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mpx1 discontinued?  didn't know that.

they're even cheaper than 425 on ebay now.  might just pick one up in the
near future.

thanks for the suggestions.

-jim


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Oops--
Hey Kim, what does it mean when the display reads DEAdr?
I didn't investigate, just turned the EDP off and on again, everything looks
fine now--
Sorry about the message just sent without any new info, my mistake . . .
Gary

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-----Original Message-----
From: Kim Flint [mailto:kflint@loopers-delight.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 1:02 AM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Mind Boggling LoopIV


At 12:40 AM 6/25/2002, SoundFNR@aol.com wrote:
>Didn't know about SUSNextLoop and SUSMute-Retrigger though,
>somehow I missed those completely.
>sounds like "LaFosse" territory to me ;-)

I don't know where SUSnext came from, I think Matthias actually came up
with that with his ever Swiss need to carry an idea precisely all the way
through. But yes it definitely has an Andre aspect to it.

SUSMute-Retrigger sounds more like one of my "dance music needs this!" type
of functions.


>Just waiting to see what tricks will
>appear out of all these new features,
>....so many combinations yet to be tried.

Yes it is true. So much of LoopIV is just a big empty canvas because it is
all new. I'm dying to hear what people will do with it. We worked so hard
to make sure it all worked and plugged together right and all remained
consistent. But what the creative minds out there will do with it we can
have no idea. Even during beta testing we were amazed by the crazy stuff
you guys started dreaming up. We can't wait to see where the rest of the
world takes it.

What happens when you mix SUSNextLoop with LoopCopy? or stutter mode? or
different loop triggering options and quantize=8th? I don't even know.
Somebody dive into it and record something so we can find out!

kim


______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com

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Subject: RE: Loop IV: Synchronization is awesome
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Thx for the response kim. I just ordered my loopIV upgrade today!

One last question though, I'd like to minimize the amount of pedals I
have to carry around and have a Rocktron AllAccess midi pedal. Can I
control the  EDP with the allAccess in an efficient manner or would
people recommend I go with the real EDP pedal board. I know its possible
to use the allAccess but my concern is that its not as convenient.

Thx again, -simon-

-----Original Message-----
From: Kim Flint [mailto:kflint@loopers-delight.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 12:48 AM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: RE: Loop IV: Synchronization is awesome

At 12:03 AM 6/25/2002, Si Butler wrote:
>I'm interested in using the EDP in a rhythm section to layer funk
>grooves. How easy is it to get everything locked on a nice tight 2 bar
>segment?

I think it is pretty easy. It depends on your circumstances a bit, as it

would with any looper.

In LoopIV you have the ability to preset a Tempo before recording the
loop 
and then record a loop exactly to that BPM. There are some options to
fine 
tune this and retrigger the start point if you need to, for the EDP
version 
of turntable beat matching. This may be what you are looking for.

Also there are new triggering options that make it simple to retrigger a

loop. Sometimes in a band situation what you really need is a quick way
to 
retrigger your loop to line it up with the down beat again. It is a sort
of 
"manual sync" but I've often found it to be the most useful. We gave
some 
easy options for this in LoopIV.

If you are otherwise using midi clock, then you are totally set. the
sync 
functions of LoopIV are excellent in that case and you have many 
possibilities to get a tight groove locked in. Things like ReAlign and 
SyncRecord will do a lot for you there.

>Does the new software extend the quantization capabilities?

yes. You can quantize to the cycle point as before, or the new options
of 
quantizing to the 8th note or quantizing to the overall loop startpoint.

When it quantizes to 8th note, it really quantizes to a subdivision of
the 
loop based on the parameter called 8ths/cycle. This can be set to
anything, 
so this quantization could just as easily be quarter notes or 16ths or 
sevens or whatever.


>Do
>I need to be lightning fast with the footpedal or does the loop IV s/w
>help determine the correct length of the loop?

We've always tried to maintain both approaches. For those who want tight

rhythm there are many functions that allow the EDP to maintain very
tight 
grooves and take care of all the precision for you. Or you can be
totally 
free and do things whenever you want. Loop always gave you the choice, 
LoopIV gives you even more.

For you, things like sync, quantizing, rounding, and triggering will 
probably be what you want for a more groove oriented approach.

kim



______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 26 02:05:52 2002
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  That's great, except in this case, the noise happens even when nothing at
all is plugged into the Repeater.  <smile>  -Well, at the very least, a set
of headphones...   lol!  anyway, glad you got it solved.  It turns out that
my Repeater's twin is working perfectly, so something's up with this one.
I'm in the midst of working out a replacement with our distributor and
Electrix so we'll see...  

Smiles,

G-Girl

At 04:25 PM 6/25/02 -0400, you wrote:
>i had this same issue until i bought shielded cables. 
>problem solved.
>regards
>c
>
>


---

  "The only things I really think are important, are love, and eachother.
-Then, anything is possible..."  

http://home.earthlink.net/~thefates

Please visit The Guitar Cafe.  

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-guitar-cafe 


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At 05:46 AM 6/25/2002, M. Steven Ginn wrote:
>Kim,
>
>I know you said it doesn't matter whether the EDP is sync master or
>slave, but if you had a choice, which would be preferred?

I'm not sure how to answer that. Whether you use the EDP as the master or 
the slave is really just a practical decision, depending on the application 
and what you are using it with.

what do you want to do with it?


>Can you describe how the EDP establishes tempo ... Is it via some sort
>of tap tempo or is it based on the length of the loop?

in general it is based on the length of the loop and the setting of the 
parameter called 8ths/cycle, which determines how many 8th notes the basic 
loop length (or cycle) is equal to. It is "tap tempo" to the extent that 
you tap the beginning and end of the loop, but not really the same as what 
is called "tap tempo" on other devices.

When the Echoplex is the sync master, this is really simple in use. You 
just record your loop as you play, and when you end the loop it begins 
sending clock and repeating your loop. Downstream sequencers, drum 
machines, or other tempo based effects immediately start up in time with 
you as you finish. So you don't need to know what the tempo is before you 
play, which can be nice.

Now, If you have sync coming in from another device, either by midi clock, 
BeatSync, or BrotherSync, the tempo is set by that sync signal and 
displayed on the screen. Then when you record, your loop lengths will match 
that tempo.

Also, there is a new feature in LoopIV called Tempo Select, where you can 
set the tempo in advance. You set it in BPM and the Echoplex determines the 
loop length for you. When you record, the loop length will automatically go 
the predetermined amount. In fact, it will neatly do multiples of that 
length in real-time, so if you set it to 120BPM clock coming in and 
8th/cycle set to 8, the display will show that the cycle length will be 2.0 
seconds. Then when you record, if you let it go longer than 2 seconds you 
will see the Multiple counter going up, effectively counting the bars for 
you. You can then stop recording anytime you like and the cycle will be 
neatly rounded off for you.

Also with Tempo Select, the Echoplex can start sending midi clock before 
you record the loop, so you can trigger downstream sequencers in time with 
your loop before you record it, while still having the EDP as the clock master.

>   I also read
>somewhere that the EDP can even be used to establish tempo as master
>sync without even recording anything or actually looping.  How is this
>done?

that's the tempo select I just mentioned. Check the manual for specifics of 
how it is used:
http://www.aurisis.com/products/loopIV/LoopIVGuide.pdf

kim


______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com

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  Bruno, one approach I like a whole lot is something I've sort of named
Structured Improvisation.  Personally, I find that it tends to make
loop-based peices a bit more accessible to an audience who may not
completely be familiar with the  genre.  At the same time, it also allows
for some very creative and flexible interprettation of musical and sonic
ideas.  You could compare it with the ideas of motief or chord structure
within a piece, with the looped environment having a reoccurring melodic or
harmonic or sonic motief, which may then almost, or completely change or
even  disappear, and then return later in the piece.  It can also be
transposed, modulated or modified in some way as well in the course of a
loop piece.  It makes the music more interesting, and gives it a form,
rather than simply playing complete stream-of-conciousness material
throughout.  Now, looking at this idea as an environment, or as a chord
progression in a song, you might use certain sounds or chords to create a
specific ambiance where yu can then play a particular melody or
stream-of-conciousness solo as a counterpoint and then let the environment
change, and then return to it later.  
  
  I like this way of playing, because within the framework of musical form
you can then let the environments or motiefs transmute, and take you as the
musician on a musical journey, letting them guide you to places you may not
expect, and then in turn, guide them back from wherever they've taken you
and the audience.  It's a musical dance and dialogue.  All and all, the
piece not only moves, grows, and changes, and has incredible dynamic
textures and expression, but also has tangeable musical  form people can
recognize and relate to, even if the music itself is different from what
they may usually hear.  So it becomes more accessible and can communicate
some  complex and beautiful ideas in a very intuitive way.  
  <smile>  Thanks so much for bringing up the musical idea of looping
rather than just the whole tech thing, looping has such beautiful
possibilities.  

Smiles,

G-Girl

At 04:42 PM 6/25/02 +0200, you wrote:
>dear all
>
>
>whenever I've time I take tours in your webpages
>trying to listen and understand what everybody do with the looping
>
>It's very interesting trying to identify the not always conscious 
>process underlying
>the operation of looping.
>
>Most of the times the first, almost instictive use of this technology 
>is a kinda of antidote to solitude
>I.e.: I play by myself, but myself is me and my looping tools, that 
>multiply me and create other me (mainly comping, riffing or 
>droning...) so that I can play over that my solo, my solo, my 
>solo...and so on.
>
>This is what I call the lonesome guitarist complex...
>looks very blue-eyed, I know, but believe it or not, it's what most of us do
>(I'm not calling myself out...)
>
>out from there opens a vaste land of possibilities:
>where technology is no more a way to represent something
>or to fill a gap
>
>I thought it would be interesting and usefull trying to describe 
>these operations
>and try to build an archetypal or structural alphabet or a list of 
>possible processes
>analyzed not in their concrete sequences of interactions with the 
>machine/machines
>but under a more abstract point of view, whichever is the concrete 
>interpretation one can give
>of that
>
>I'll bring just a couple of examples of looping- concepts I sometime use:
>
>THE HIDDEN PLOT
>Start overdubbing layers with seemingly no rythmic sense.
>the rythmic meaning comes at the end of the overdubbing
>as a inexpected final result
>
>COMP MOVING
>instead of looping the comping, loop the melody.
>Then start comping over moving and changing the harmonic sense
>of the phrase.
>
>I m's just considering now a tipical static way of interpretating the 
>loop thing.
>Obviously structures become more and more complex when they become
>dynamic, for instance with feedback, substitutions, etc.
>
>so what do we do when we loop?
>Is there someone willing to share this?
>
>thank you
>
>bruno
>
>
>
>-- 
>
>


---

  "The only things I really think are important, are love, and eachother.
-Then, anything is possible..."  

http://home.earthlink.net/~thefates

Please visit The Guitar Cafe.  

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-guitar-cafe 


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> Fran: Mark Sottilaro [mailto:sine@zerocrossing.net]

> Second one, which I do all the time, is only possible with a Repeater.
> Put a processor with a "high mangleage factor" (mangle factor of 7 or
> higher is best) into the effects loop of the Repeater, then as you're
> recording your loop, have it on the output of the loop.  With the
> Repeater, you're effect will NOT be on the imput, so you'll only here
> effected sound at the first iteration of your loop.

Interesting. I'd like to try that but I don't yet have any suitable "high
mangleage" processor. Sometimes I play in constant record mode, and low
feedback, with the repeater pitched down an octave. It's really amazing on
long loops to hear the new noise that your previous playing have turned into
;-)

All the best

Per Boysen
www.boysen.se
____________________________________________________________
http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=p_boy

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the "Single Cycle Multiply"
In StutterMode, the way Insert works is changed 

if you have a Loop made up of 8 cycles

12345678

then if you hit Insert at the start of cycle 4, you would hear

123444444444444444444...............and so on

the 4th cycle being repeated, until either you hit undo,
and go back to 12345678, or hit Insert again and get 

12344444444444445678

with the "Stutters" Inserted into the Loop, and anything
you played during the Ds gets overdubbed.
(actually if you're not using Quantise, the bit that gets stuttered can 
start from any part of the Cycle, but will be exactly one cycle long) 


the "SubCycleMultiply"
when Insertmode=SUS
(or ending Insert with Record)
you can add "Stutters" which are shorter than a cycle.

say you had a one cycle loop
of you reciting the first eight letters of the alphabet:-

"abcdefgh"

then pressing Insert at d, and releasing after e would give you

"abcdedefgh"



a very brief press of Insert extends the loop by a small
(but fixed) amount, so if you do a lot of brief taps you 
start to hear a sort of primitive timestretch.

The volume that  the Stutters are recorded into the loop
is controlled by Feedback, so if you get the stutters going
then reduce the feedback from max to min, (then hit Insert
to put the Stutters into the loop) you can hear a series 
of stutters fading out.

All of this behavior is based on the original Insert,
and uses almost exactly the same code
(just one variable changed, except Matthias had
to fine tune slightly for Next>Insert) .
As the manual explains, the stutter effect has 
to be used with care if you need it to work 
accurately everytime.
Essentially its a "dark side" function, just
like loop windowing.

andy butler
  






 
 
 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 26 05:59:16 2002
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From: "Per Boysen" <per@boysen.se>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: SV: Guitar scale prog- 
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 11:57:38 +0200
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  Hello-



  I have been looking for a simple PC program that would allow the display
of scales across the guitar neck for viewing/printing- but the clencher
seems to be to find one that allows the user to define the scale of their
choice. I have found plenty with interesting and numerous scales to choose
from but none that allow custom scales or even 8 tone scales etc. If anyone
knows of such a prog please let me know. Also, being able to create custom
chord diagrams to be printed would also be nice-



  Cliff



  PS- I appreciate the informative dialogs in progress regarding LoopIV and
CARP- thanks everyone- the “Loop Saving” folder grows and grows!





  H i Cliff,



  How about "The Multimedia Guitar Tutor" at
http://80.197.46.38/%7Eeyesy/mmgt.htm

  All the best

  Per Boysen
  www.boysen.se
  ____________________________________________________________
  http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=p_boy


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face=3DArial=20
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  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
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  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
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  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
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  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">PS- I =
</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
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  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">a</SPAN></FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">logs in =
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  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">a</SPAN></FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">rding =
LoopIV=20
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  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">a</SPAN></FONT><FONT =
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  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">nd CARP-=20
  th</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">a</SPAN></FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">nks =
everyone- the=20
  =93Loop S</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">a</SPAN></FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">ving=94 =
folder grows=20
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  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">a</SPAN></FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">nd=20
  grows!</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><FONT=20
  color=3D#0000ff>H<SPAN class=3D562165609-26062002>&nbsp;i=20
  Cliff,</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><FONT=20
  color=3D#0000ff><SPAN =
class=3D562165609-26062002></SPAN></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT><SPAN=20
  class=3D562165609-26062002><FONT color=3D#0000ff>How about "The =
Multimedia Guitar=20
  Tutor" at </FONT><A =
href=3D"http://80.197.46.38/%7Eeyesy/mmgt.htm"><FONT=20
  color=3D#0000ff>http://80.197.46.38/%7Eeyesy/mmgt.htm</FONT></A><FONT=20
  color=3D#0000ff>&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></FONT><A=20
  href=3D"http://www.om-studios.com/"><SPAN=20
  class=3D562165609-26062002>&nbsp;</SPAN></A><SPAN =
class=3D562165609-26062002><FONT=20
  color=3D#0000ff>&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><SPAN=20
  class=3D562165609-26062002><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">All the =
best<BR><BR>Per=20
  =
Boysen<BR>www.boysen.se<BR>______________________________________________=
______________<BR></FONT><A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=3Dp_boy"=20
  target=3D_blank><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New =
Roman">http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=3Dp_boy</FO=
NT></A><FONT=20
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size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT>&nbsp;</SPAN></SPAN></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY><=
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Subject: RE: Loop IV: Substitute is awesome
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Kim,

> I'm not sure how to answer that. Whether you use the EDP as 
> the master or 
> the slave is really just a practical decision, depending on 
> the application 
> and what you are using it with.
> 
> what do you want to do with it?
> 

I am basically trying to consider the overall mechanics of my rig and
pedal usage.  Initially, I don't think I will be using the EDP all the
time for looping but the EDP footcontroller will be installed on my
pedalboard.  I see that I have 2 options for controlling tap tempo of my
rig.  Either using the EDP system as master tempo source or plugging in
a footswitch to my Eclipse and using that as the master.  The latter
means that I will have to have another small footswitch on the
pedalboard unless I program one of my PMC10 buttons for that purpose.
But I am not sure I want to have the PMC10 performing that repetitive
and potentially long term destructive function.  I guess my ultimate
question as far as the EDP is concerned is whether or not it will be
easy to continuously set the tempo using the EDP (whether its used for
looping or not) for every song versus using a dedicated tap tempo switch
via the Eclipse.  And, is changing tempo in the middle of a song using
the EDP as easy as just tapping on a switch (again whether the EDP is
used for looping or not during that particular song)?

Thanks,
Steve

P.S. Sorry for beating a dead horse here. I just prefer to learn from
those more experienced than I rather than going through many trials ...
And errors ...

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 26 10:37:21 2002
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Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 09:35:55 -0500
From: jim palmer <jimp@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Loop IV: Synchronization is awesome
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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i use the AllAccess and i have to say that using it in
conjunction with a dedicated edp pedal is the way to go.

the main reason is that the buttons on the AllAccess require
~4lbs to activate and this makes it difficult for me to activate
them precisely in time.  (they also make quite a bit of noise)

it is also nice to have the main edp functions immediately available.
(i am using the AllAccess to control several other devices as well)

there are other limitations to the AllAccess that are making me
consider using something else, although i can't seem to find
anything else that is decent...

there was a thread about a year ago about eventide researching
the perfect midi pedal.  

anybody know what happened with that?

p.s. i made my own edp pedal with info from the ld pages
        it's definitely worth checking out...


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Si Butler" <jazzlists@burble.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 9:01 PM
Subject: RE: Loop IV: Synchronization is awesome


> 
> Thx for the response kim. I just ordered my loopIV upgrade today!
> 
> One last question though, I'd like to minimize the amount of pedals I
> have to carry around and have a Rocktron AllAccess midi pedal. Can I
> control the  EDP with the allAccess in an efficient manner or would
> people recommend I go with the real EDP pedal board. I know its possible
> to use the allAccess but my concern is that its not as convenient.
> 
> Thx again, -simon-
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kim Flint [mailto:kflint@loopers-delight.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 12:48 AM
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Subject: RE: Loop IV: Synchronization is awesome
> 
> At 12:03 AM 6/25/2002, Si Butler wrote:
> >I'm interested in using the EDP in a rhythm section to layer funk
> >grooves. How easy is it to get everything locked on a nice tight 2 bar
> >segment?
> 
> I think it is pretty easy. It depends on your circumstances a bit, as it
> 
> would with any looper.
> 
> In LoopIV you have the ability to preset a Tempo before recording the
> loop 
> and then record a loop exactly to that BPM. There are some options to
> fine 
> tune this and retrigger the start point if you need to, for the EDP
> version 
> of turntable beat matching. This may be what you are looking for.
> 
> Also there are new triggering options that make it simple to retrigger a
> 
> loop. Sometimes in a band situation what you really need is a quick way
> to 
> retrigger your loop to line it up with the down beat again. It is a sort
> of 
> "manual sync" but I've often found it to be the most useful. We gave
> some 
> easy options for this in LoopIV.
> 
> If you are otherwise using midi clock, then you are totally set. the
> sync 
> functions of LoopIV are excellent in that case and you have many 
> possibilities to get a tight groove locked in. Things like ReAlign and 
> SyncRecord will do a lot for you there.
> 
> >Does the new software extend the quantization capabilities?
> 
> yes. You can quantize to the cycle point as before, or the new options
> of 
> quantizing to the 8th note or quantizing to the overall loop startpoint.
> 
> When it quantizes to 8th note, it really quantizes to a subdivision of
> the 
> loop based on the parameter called 8ths/cycle. This can be set to
> anything, 
> so this quantization could just as easily be quarter notes or 16ths or 
> sevens or whatever.
> 
> 
> >Do
> >I need to be lightning fast with the footpedal or does the loop IV s/w
> >help determine the correct length of the loop?
> 
> We've always tried to maintain both approaches. For those who want tight
> 
> rhythm there are many functions that allow the EDP to maintain very
> tight 
> grooves and take care of all the precision for you. Or you can be
> totally 
> free and do things whenever you want. Loop always gave you the choice, 
> LoopIV gives you even more.
> 
> For you, things like sync, quantizing, rounding, and triggering will 
> probably be what you want for a more groove oriented approach.
> 
> kim
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________________________________
> Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
> kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com
> 
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 26 11:47:23 2002
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Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 08:44:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: philip raath <philraath@yahoo.com>
Subject: need some advice on hand drums
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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how's it?

i just got back from africa and bought a couple of
drums. i've been told that untreated drum wood from
africa can unleash woodworm and other things into
one's house, so i was wondering if anyone has any
advice on how to deal with this.

i don't want to just bug bomb the drum.

cheers,

phil

=====
"Compassion is the sometimes fatal capacity for feeling what
it's like to live inside somebody else's skin.
 It is the knowledge that there can never really be any
peace and joy for me until there is peace and joy finally 
for you too." 
                                   -Frederick Buechner
"The jewel is in the lotus."

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 26 12:22:36 2002
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Subject: Re: need some advice on hand drums
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Hi Phil!

> i just got back from africa and bought a couple of
> drums. i've been told that untreated drum wood from
> africa can unleash woodworm and other things into
> one's house, so i was wondering if anyone has any
> advice on how to deal with this.

I had this problem with drums from Haiti.  They released tiny beetles that
ate *everything* including all untreated (unfinished) wood.  They even ate
into my vermicelli boxes, flour bags, and Kraft Macaroni and Cheese!

I called the "bug man" from Purdue U. and he had two suggestions:
1) Put the drum in a plastic trash bag with a "no-pest strip."  Seal the bag
and let it stand for 2-3 weeks.
2) Take the drum to a meat locker and freeze it for a couple of weeks.

I proceeded with (1) and solved my problem.

Hope this helps!  (And have fun with those drums!)

Dennis Leas
-------------------
dennis@mdbs.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Jun 26 14:31:12 2002
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From: "Nic Roozeboom" <nicroozeboom@hotmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: SV: Guitar scale prog-
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 11:28:04 -0700
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Possibly interesting to add: Chord finder for various guitar tunings:

http://guitar.to/folder/guitar.html

Nic


>From: "Per Boysen" <per@boysen.se>
>Reply-To: <per@boysen.se>
>To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
>Subject: SV: Guitar scale prog-
>Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 11:57:38 +0200
>
>
>   Hello-
>
>
>
>   I have been looking for a simple PC program that would allow the display
>of scales across the guitar neck for viewing/printing- but the clencher
>seems to be to find one that allows the user to define the scale of their
>choice. I have found plenty with interesting and numerous scales to choose
>from but none that allow custom scales or even 8 tone scales etc. If anyone
>knows of such a prog please let me know. Also, being able to create custom
>chord diagrams to be printed would also be nice-
>
>
>
>   Cliff
>
>
>
>   PS- I appreciate the informative dialogs in progress regarding LoopIV 
>and
>CARP- thanks everyone- the “Loop Saving” folder grows and grows!
>
>
>
>
>
>   H i Cliff,
>
>
>
>   How about "The Multimedia Guitar Tutor" at
>http://80.197.46.38/%7Eeyesy/mmgt.htm
>
>   All the best
>
>   Per Boysen
>   www.boysen.se
>   ____________________________________________________________
>   http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=p_boy
>


_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com

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Dear friends,

I hope this message finds you well...

I have a performance coming up this Saturday in Chicago with two artists
I admire very much, Jim Baker and Kevin Drumm. 

I've supplied the details below, with more available on my "what's new"
web page...I hope you might be able come.

All the best,
Eric Leonardson

http://pages.ripco.net/~eleon/whatsnew.html
--
Upcoming Performances:

Sat 6/29 trio w/ Jim Baker & Kevin Drumm 9pm @ The Candlestick Maker,
4432 N. KEDZIE AVE, Chicago (Just north of Montrose. Kedzie stop on the
Brown Line,
3 blks. south.) {The sign above the door reads "PERFECT rubber stamps"}
More info: http://pages.ripco.net/~eleon/whatsnew.html

Fri—Sun 7/26—28 Soundshift, Baltimore:
http://www.johnberndt.org/soundshift/

Eric Leonardson web page: http://pages.ripco.net/~eleon
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electroacoustic instrument coil springs invent homemade electronic improvisation jazz theater performance art 
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This page was last updated on June 25, 2002. Contact Eric Leonardson at <A HREF="mailto:eleon@ripco.com">eleon@ripco.com</A> 
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<DT><FONT SIZE="4" COLOR="#cc3300"><B>Upcoming Performances &#38;  Broadcasts:</B></FONT><BR>

<P>&nbsp;</P>

<DL>

<DT><P><B>9:00 pm Saturday, June 29 trio with Jim Baker and Kevin Drumm</B>
<DD>...at <B>The Candlestick Maker</B>, 4432 N. KEDZIE AVE, Chicago (Just north of Montrose. Kedzie stop on the Brown Line, 3 blks. south.) {The sign above the door reads "PERFECT rubber stamps"}<BR>
<B>Jim Baker</B>: electronics
<br>Jim Baker has been playing in and around Chicago as a pianist and synthesist
for more than two decades, mostly in improvisational contexts, some of
which have been documented in recordings and some of which have not. Current
ongoing collaborative activities include performing in Ken Vandermark's
Territory Band; David Boykin's Expanse; Guillermo Gregorio's MADI Ensemble;
Fred Lonberg-Holm's Lightbox Orchestra; Janet Bean's Concertina Wire; and
various other trios, quartets, and duos with, among others, Josh Abrams,
Harrison Bankhead, Kyle Bruckmann, Tim Daisy, Steve Hunt, Nicole Mitchell,
Avreeyal Ra, Jason Roebke, Dave Rempis, Damon Short, Tony Suto, and Michael
Zerang; and probably also some other things too speculative or presumptive
to mention, or which he has simply forgotten.
<p><B>Kevin Drumm</B>: electronics
<br>Says the <I>Chicago Reader's</I> Peter Margasak, &#147;Drumm has developed a guitar
analogue to the computer-generated minimalism of Finland's Mika Vainia
(of Panasonic) or Cologne's Pita and General Magic, exploiting intentional
and accidental elements in disturbingly disjointed, highly abstract, chillingly
beautiful soundscapes-and erasing the already tenuous line between 'real'
and 'artificial' music.&#148;
<p>Kevin Drumm lives in Chicago, and has quickly risen to prominence since
the release of his debut self-titled record (Perdition Plastics) in 1997.
He's released superb duo records with Taku Sugimoto and Martin T&egrave;treault
(Particles and Smears), as well as an upcoming one with Ralf Wehowsky.
<P><A HREF="baker_drumm_leonards_PR.html">Press Release download here.</A>

<P>&nbsp;</P>

<DT><P><B>July 13&#151;August 1, Oddstruments Exhibition</B>
<DD>A gallery exhibition on experimental musical instruments and the strange people who make them. At Artscape 2002, Baltimore, Decker Galleries, Maryland Institute College of Art. Aritists include Dan Conrad, Neil Feather, Colin Hinz, Bradford Reed, Q. R. Ghazala, among others. Curated by John Berndt. More info at <A HREF="http://www.johnberndt.org/oddstruments/">http://www.johnberndt.org/oddstruments/</A> 

<P>&nbsp;</P>

<DT><P><B>Friday&#151;Sunday, July 26&#151;28 Soundshift, Baltimore</B>
<DD>Over 50 experimental musicians from Baltimore and the rest of North America are coming together to play 
    a freely improvised twelve-hour piece of music each day. The music will be continuous each day from 10 AM to 10 PM.
The musicians are extremely varied and unique. They will play in overlapping shifts, with densities ranging from solo to bigband. More info:<A HREF="http://www.johnberndt.org/soundshift/">http://www.johnberndt.org/soundshift/</A> 

<P>&nbsp;</P>

<DT><P><B>For a listing...</B>
<DD>...of other Chicago-area jazz, creative, experimental, improvised music and sound events, visit the <A HREF="http://www.cs.nwu.edu/~tisue/chicagonow/"><B>Chicago Now calendar</B></A>. And don't forget to visit the <A HREF="links/index.html"><B>"sound thinking links page."</B></A></P>

<P>&nbsp;</P>

<DT><FONT SIZE="4" COLOR="#cc3300"><B>CD Releases</B></FONT><BR>


<DT><P>
<B><I>Winter Construction</I></B> (dceo003)
<DD>A signed and numbered, limited edition CDR compilation of Chicago artists with accompanying zine. Featuring tracks by MORA, Kyle Bruckmann, Eric Leonardson/Yasuhiro Otani, Rosenberg Skronktet, Fred Lonberg-Holm, the Flying Luttenbachers, Ernst Karel/ Brent Gutzeit/ Jason Soliday, Lozenge, Metallux, TV Pow, and others... available on-line from <A HREF="http://www.deadceo.com/catalog.html"><B>dead ceo.</B></A></P>

<DD><IMG SRC="images/Eric.RadioReverie.SMAL.jpg" ALT=Radio Reverie CD cover ALIGN=RIGHT HEIGHT=141 WIDTH=141 VSPACE=2 HSPACE=6>
<P><B><I>Radio Reverie in the Waiting Place</I></B> traces Eric's diverse interests and activities in electroacoustic composition, radio art, sound design, and improvised music between 1992 and 1998. "Fascinating... Intriguing stuff"&#151;<A HREF="articles/index.html"> <I><B>The WIRE.</B></I></A> <BR> 

<P><A HREF="http://www.justicematters.com/cgi-jminc/ShopJM.cgi?label=IND&SCNo=789017&ArtistID=86&listcds=Click+here+to+proceed"><img SRC="images/logo_jm.gif" ALT=Justice Matters Store logo ALIGN=LEFT>Visit the <A HREF="http://www.justicematters.com/cgi-jminc/ShopJM.cgi?label=IND&SCNo=789017&ArtistID=86&listcds=Click+here+to+proceed"><B>Justice Matters Store</A> </B> to listen or purchase <I>Radio Reverie...</I> and Eric's 1998 release, <I><B>Animus</B></I> with experimental vocalist Carol Genetti. 
<P><B><I>Radio Reverie...</I></B>is also available at <B>Tower Records</B> and <B>Reckless Records</B> in Chicago.<BR>



<P>&nbsp;</P>

<DT><FONT FACE="Arial, Helvetica, Sans" SIZE="4" COLOR="#cc3300"><B>Chicago Sound Opportunities and Resources:</B></FONT><BR>

<DD><P><FONT FACE="Arial, Helvetica, Sans"><B>A quick word or two from Experimental Sound Studio... </B></P>
<P>NEED SOUND? ESS offers you two recording studios at more than reasonable rates in an artist-oriented environment. We provide services for live music recording, soundtrack postproduction for film and video, audio recording for installations, etc.</P>
<P>NEED INFORMATION? Our <B>Technical Workshop Series</B> offers intensive two-day workshops in Microphones, Recording Techniques, Inside the Digital Audio Workstation, Deeper Inside the Digital Audio Workstation, and Mixing Techniques. Call for dates, times, prices, and registration. <A HREF="http://www.expsoundstudio.org">www.expsoundstudio.org</A>, or by calling 773-784-0449. </P>

<P>&nbsp;</P>

<DD><P><FONT FACE="Arial, Helvetica, Sans"><B>SPECTRA a monthy open forum for composers and audio artists...</B></P>

<P>...to present and discuss their work. <B>SPECTRA is held on the first Wednesday of each month</B> from 7:30pm to 9:30pm CST at splinter group Audio Studio, 450 N. Leavitt. For more information and to hear work presented in past meetings, <A HREF="http://www.spectrachicago.org/">visit the SPECTRA website</A>, or phone splinter group (312) 829-5650.</FONT></P>

<P>&nbsp;</P>


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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 27 00:49:30 2002
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From: "Gary Lehmann" <healthquestrecruiter@earthlink.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: LoopIV and SR-16 with MIDI Controller
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 21:48:04 -0700
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Hi there--

Since several folks on this list were using the PC1600x, I obtained one in
the last few months and have found many uses for it--here is the most
recent.
In Loop IV, you can set the tempo and start the pattern of the SR-16 (or
most other drum machines) before you start recording the loop.  I used the
PC1600x for this, and since it also is able to send Song Select, you can
select the pattern on the SR as well.  This is great news for anyone who has
ever tried to control the SR-16 while onstage--the display is not backlit,
and not that big either.
So now a question--is there any way to trigger the fill button on the SR-16
thru MIDI?
Gary

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Subject: RE: Mind Boggling LoopIV
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I got a display to read '127' anytime a program change was sent, on any
midi channel. I turned the EDP off, and it hasn't returned.

Dave Eichenberger
http://www.hazardfactor.com
 

 
> 
> Oops--
> Hey Kim, what does it mean when the display reads DEAdr?
 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 27 01:43:53 2002
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Subject: Can One trigger the fill button on the SR-16 thru MIDI?
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 22:42:48 -0700
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-----Original Message-----
Gary Lehmann posed:
So now a question--is there any way to trigger the fill button on the SR-16
thru MIDI?
Gary
Uh--one way is to use the PMC-10 internal switch setting--but that's not
really MIDI.
Just downloaded the SR manual--but I think the answer is no.
G

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Subject: Re: Can One trigger the fill button on the SR-16 thru MIDI?
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Gary
check the pmc10 manual I think you can trigg pmc 10 _patches_ with an external
pg ch so if you assign an  on off  switch to this patch it may work
probably to much of a hassle when a simple fs on the ground can do dat (dodahhh)

SR16 also understands song position pointers :
with some programming (pmc or pc1600x) you can tell your DMachine to come back
to measure 8 or 16 or where ever you want it to land
to land at measure 8 build a message composed of
FC (stop message) , F2 00 04 (the SPP+LSB MSB ),FA (start)

Fun stuff

Claude





> -----Original Message-----
> Gary Lehmann posed:
> So now a question--is there any way to trigger the fill button on the SR-16
> thru MIDI?
> Gary
> Uh--one way is to use the PMC-10 internal switch setting--but that's not
> really MIDI.
> Just downloaded the SR manual--but I think the answer is no.
> G
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 27 10:12:08 2002
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Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 16:07:13 +0200
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: bruno kleinefeld <brunoklein@ideastudioweb.com>
Subject: Re: looping: a structural cucaracha...
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>
>   <smile>  Thanks so much for bringing up the musical idea of looping
>rather than just the whole tech thing, looping has such beautiful
possibilities.

dear Goddess

starting from the end... thanks to you for answering and dedicating
your time to this reflection!
And thanks to Mark Sottilaro and Nemoguitt as well...
you offered some really interesting cues

Anyhow this issue didn't show up to be very stimulating for the rest
of the looping community... in effects looks like technical issues
are much more interesting for the majority of us.
Obviously I do not pretend that what I propose should be interesting,
but the fact that the discussion is so often about gear and not about music
points toward a hidden taboo... something not very clear that worries
me a little bit (and that goes also together with the fact that if you spend
some time listening to MP3 of loopers from around the world -
especially the guitar players ones - they often sounds boooringly similar...)

The approach you describe is very similar to some thoughts
I had in the last years playing mostly improvisational music:
repetition and recognition are always oasis of peacefulness
in the troubled sea of the streaming musical flow
and offering some buoys to the listeners (and to yourself playing)
has often good results

but I'd really love to listen and understand how someone else
interpretate that...

ciao a tutti

b:k


BTW: my repeater is noisy too... I keep it the way it is...
it was kinda of taking me too much time to solve that
so I choosed playing (with some noise in the background...
not very professional ;-)

>  Bruno, one approach I like a whole lot is something I've sort of named
>Structured Improvisation.  Personally, I find that it tends to make
>loop-based peices a bit more accessible to an audience who may not
>completely be familiar with the  genre.  At the same time, it also allows
>for some very creative and flexible interprettation of musical and sonic
>ideas.  You could compare it with the ideas of motief or chord structure
>within a piece, with the looped environment having a reoccurring melodic or
>harmonic or sonic motief, which may then almost, or completely change or
>even  disappear, and then return later in the piece.  It can also be
>transposed, modulated or modified in some way as well in the course of a
>loop piece.  It makes the music more interesting, and gives it a form,
>rather than simply playing complete stream-of-conciousness material
>throughout.  Now, looking at this idea as an environment, or as a chord
>progression in a song, you might use certain sounds or chords to create a
>specific ambiance where yu can then play a particular melody or
>stream-of-conciousness solo as a counterpoint and then let the environment
>change, and then return to it later. 
>
>   I like this way of playing, because within the framework of musical form
>you can then let the environments or motiefs transmute, and take you as the
>musician on a musical journey, letting them guide you to places you may not
>expect, and then in turn, guide them back from wherever they've taken you
>and the audience.  It's a musical dance and dialogue.  All and all, the
>piece not only moves, grows, and changes, and has incredible dynamic
>textures and expression, but also has tangeable musical  form people can
>recognize and relate to, even if the music itself is different from what
>they may usually hear.  So it becomes more accessible and can communicate
>some  complex and beautiful ideas in a very intuitive way.
>
>
>Smiles,
>
>G-Girl
>
>At 04:42 PM 6/25/02 +0200, you wrote:
>>dear all
>>
>>
>>whenever I've time I take tours in your webpages
>>trying to listen and understand what everybody do with the looping
>>
>>It's very interesting trying to identify the not always conscious
>>process underlying
>>the operation of looping.
>>
>>Most of the times the first, almost instictive use of this technology
>>is a kinda of antidote to solitude
>  >I.e.: I play by myself, but myself is me and my looping tools, that
>>multiply me and create other me (mainly comping, riffing or
>>droning...) so that I can play over that my solo, my solo, my
>>solo...and so on.
>>
>>This is what I call the lonesome guitarist complex...
>>looks very blue-eyed, I know, but believe it or not, it's what most of us do
>>(I'm not calling myself out...)
>>
>>out from there opens a vaste land of possibilities:
>>where technology is no more a way to represent something
>>or to fill a gap
>>
>>I thought it would be interesting and usefull trying to describe
>>these operations
>>and try to build an archetypal or structural alphabet or a list of
>>possible processes
>>analyzed not in their concrete sequences of interactions with the
>>machine/machines
>>but under a more abstract point of view, whichever is the concrete
>>interpretation one can give
>>of that
>>
>>I'll bring just a couple of examples of looping- concepts I sometime use:
>>
>>THE HIDDEN PLOT
>>Start overdubbing layers with seemingly no rythmic sense.
>>the rythmic meaning comes at the end of the overdubbing
>>as a inexpected final result
>>
>>COMP MOVING
>>instead of looping the comping, loop the melody.
>>Then start comping over moving and changing the harmonic sense
>>of the phrase.
>>
>>I m's just considering now a tipical static way of interpretating the
>>loop thing.
>>Obviously structures become more and more complex when they become
>>dynamic, for instance with feedback, substitutions, etc.
>>
>>so what do we do when we loop?
>>Is there someone willing to share this?
>>
>>thank you
>>
>>bruno
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>
>>
>
>
>---
>
>   "The only things I really think are important, are love, and eachother.
>-Then, anything is possible..." 
>
>http://home.earthlink.net/~thefates
>
>Please visit The Guitar Cafe. 
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-guitar-cafe


-- 
___________________________

Bruno E. Kleinefeld
IdeaStudio Officine Editoriali
via Friuli 8c - 20135 Milano
Ph. +39-0254116266
Fax +39-0255010222
__________________________*

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Bruno,

In a message dated 6/27/02 7:10:05 AM, brunoklein@ideastudioweb.com writes:

<snip>
>in effects looks like technical issues are much 
>more interesting for the majority of us.
<snip>

Hi there! 

FWIW, I (for one) wouldn't say that. However interesting I may 
find a particular discussion, whether techno/gear-related or 
muso/aesthetic-philosophical, I don't respond unless I have 
something semi-substantial (in my own mind at least) to add. 
In other words, if I don't have something fairly meaningful to 
contribute . . . I keep my thoughts to myself pretty much.

I think, perhaps, that a lot of other loopfolk on the list are the
same way. Many simply "lurk" a lot (like me) . . . just listening in 
on the conversation . . . and responding with a comment when they 
have one -- like me right now. Don't be too hard on us. We're just
shy and trying hard to be "polite."

OTOH, it's much easier to respond to a post about an issue
surrounding some piece of gear with the usual "Yeah, I've had
that problem/bug too . . . or I tried one of those once and didn't 
like it either . . . or what about that new gizmo . . . where did 
you buy yours?" It's easier to put in one's "2 cents" and not 
look like an idiot in those situations.

I guess I don't mind looking like a idiot too much . . . because
it's pretty obvious by now that I am one. :-) So . . . without 
further ado . . . it's back to lurk mode for me.

Cheers,

Ted Killian

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 27 12:59:01 2002
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Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 09:56:57 -0700
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From: Christopher MacDonald <AmbiLoop@evenfall.com>
Subject: new software looper
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Hi Everyone,

I have been working on a software looper for Windows.  If anyone is 
interested, it's available here:
http://evenfall.com/ambiloop/
It's pretty simple right now but hopefully I'll be able to add more 
features over time (already working on some now).

Thanks,

Chris MacDonald

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 27 13:25:24 2002
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From: SRice <srice44@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: looping: a structural approach...
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Bruno and others make some very interesting comments, but my
approach is much more mundane.

So far, I've used my simple looper to layer different
instruments to build up a composition.  This is sort of the
"one man band" approach.  This is partly due to the
limitations of my looper but also consistent with my own
musical ability.  Sometimes unexpected synergistic forms
would would evolve that could not have occurred without the
technology, usually though it is what four or five patient
musicians could play unlooped.

With my newer, more sophisticated looper I expect to do more
complex arrangements with different parts coming in and out,
effects(mangles?  manglerizations?) at different points in
the chain, and experimenting since now I can 'undo'  Still,
I see myself keeping close to the 'one man band' paradigm,
just now with more variation.

Yours in rhythm,
Steven





Date:
        Tue, 25 Jun 2002 16:42:59 +0200
   From:
        "bruno kleinefeld" <brunoklein@ideastudioweb.com>
     To:
        Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject:
        looping: a structural approch...



At 04:42 PM 6/25/02 +0200, you wrote:
>dear all
>
>
>whenever I've time I take tours in your webpages
>trying to listen and understand what everybody do with the
looping
>





__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 27 13:31:46 2002
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bruno kleinefeld wrote:
(and that goes also together with the fact that if you spend

> some time listening to MP3 of loopers from around the world -
> especially the guitar players ones - they often sounds boooringly similar...)

Why stop there?  How about, "if you listen to most *music* from around the world,
it sounds boringly similar within it's genera"?  Boy, am I curious to here your
music now.

Mark Sottilaro


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 27 13:39:33 2002
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Subject: Re: looping: a structural cucaracha...
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 10:37:36 -0700
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>points toward a hidden taboo... something not very clear that worries
>me a little bit (and that goes also together with the fact that if you 
>spend
>some time listening to MP3 of loopers from around the world -
>especially the guitar players ones - they often sounds boooringly 
>similar...)

Can't help but take this a little personally, so please forgive my dopey 
reaction - ;-)
* a dismissive approach based on a 'guitarist' stigma might be throwing the 
baby out with the bathwater
* i often think that boredom is in the ear of the beholder. perhaps the 
medicine is a balance of effort & selectivity
* symphony orchestras similarly sound boringly similar - the all use the 
same medium of expression

but then, even this might be a tedious & repetitive discussion (sigh)

sincerely,
nic

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 27 13:46:57 2002
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Hey Jon, I'm trying to send you an email re: the found object show, but it's 
bouncing from hotmail - even though I'm sending it to your other email. Let 
me know when you can receive email again.

Sorry everyone else. Hi.

Matt Davignon


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 27 13:55:03 2002
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Subject: Re: new software looper
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Looks pretty cool, Chris!

I hope to download and try it tonight.

I strongly encourage you to continue your efforts!  It's great to see more
looper developers!

Dennis Leas
-------------------
dennis@mdbs.com


----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher MacDonald" <AmbiLoop@evenfall.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 11:56 AM
Subject: new software looper


> Hi Everyone,
>
> I have been working on a software looper for Windows.  If anyone is
> interested, it's available here:
> http://evenfall.com/ambiloop/
> It's pretty simple right now but hopefully I'll be able to add more
> features over time (already working on some now).
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris MacDonald
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 27 14:21:01 2002
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Subject: SV: new software looper
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 20:17:17 +0200
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> I have been working on a software looper for Windows.  If anyone is
> interested, it's available here:
> http://evenfall.com/ambiloop/
> It's pretty simple right now but hopefully I'll be able to add more
> features over time (already working on some now).
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris MacDonald

How cool! A couple of years ago I was really looking for any software like
this, but I just couldn't find any. I went so far that I even wrote to some
music software companies and gave them detailed specifications of what I
wanted - but noone ever  picked it up. However I ended up buying an EDP and
a Repeater which is what I'm now using live. I'm a bit reluctant to take
computers on stage.

All the best

Per Boysen
www.boysen.se
____________________________________________________________
http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=p_boy

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Jun 27 22:37:09 2002
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From: Christopher MacDonald <AmbiLoop@evenfall.com>
Subject: Re: SV: new software looper
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Thanks Per!  I started the project because I couldn't find a hardware or 
software looper that quite fit what I was after.  I wanted something 
performance oriented, good quality sound, stereo tracks or better, and 
seamless overdubbing for "ambient" or beatless loops.  Anyway I figured it 
was a good excuse to try programming a looper on the PC.  I agree that 
relying on a laptop on-stage might be a bit risky, although I guess more 
groups are doing it these days.  In any case it's been interesting to work 
on the program.  I have two more features almost done, undo and 
half-speed.  Hopefully I'll have a new version to post soon.

Best Regards,

Chris

At 08:17 PM 6/27/2002 +0200, you wrote:
 > I have been working on a software looper for Windows.  If anyone is
 > interested, it's available here:
 > http://evenfall.com/ambiloop/
 > It's pretty simple right now but hopefully I'll be able to add more
 > features over time (already working on some now).
 >
 > Thanks,
 >
 > Chris MacDonald

How cool! A couple of years ago I was really looking for any software like
this, but I just couldn't find any. I went so far that I even wrote to some
music software companies and gave them detailed specifications of what I
wanted - but noone ever  picked it up. However I ended up buying an EDP and
a Repeater which is what I'm now using live. I'm a bit reluctant to take
computers on stage.

All the best

Per Boysen
www.boysen.se
____________________________________________________________
http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=p_boy

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 28 00:08:42 2002
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Yeah,
I did download this software and cant wait to try it out for our projects.
anyway looks promising, please keep on developing the software as much
possible..

.jukka

----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher MacDonald" <AmbiLoop@evenfall.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Friday, June 28, 2002 5:34 AM
Subject: Re: SV: new software looper


> Thanks Per!  I started the project because I couldn't find a hardware or
> software looper that quite fit what I was after.  I wanted something
> performance oriented, good quality sound, stereo tracks or better, and
> seamless overdubbing for "ambient" or beatless loops.  Anyway I figured it
> was a good excuse to try programming a looper on the PC.  I agree that
> relying on a laptop on-stage might be a bit risky, although I guess more
> groups are doing it these days.  In any case it's been interesting to work
> on the program.  I have two more features almost done, undo and
> half-speed.  Hopefully I'll have a new version to post soon.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Chris
>
> At 08:17 PM 6/27/2002 +0200, you wrote:
>  > I have been working on a software looper for Windows.  If anyone is
>  > interested, it's available here:
>  > http://evenfall.com/ambiloop/
>  > It's pretty simple right now but hopefully I'll be able to add more
>  > features over time (already working on some now).
>  >
>  > Thanks,
>  >
>  > Chris MacDonald
>
> How cool! A couple of years ago I was really looking for any software like
> this, but I just couldn't find any. I went so far that I even wrote to
some
> music software companies and gave them detailed specifications of what I
> wanted - but noone ever  picked it up. However I ended up buying an EDP
and
> a Repeater which is what I'm now using live. I'm a bit reluctant to take
> computers on stage.
>
> All the best
>
> Per Boysen
> www.boysen.se
> ____________________________________________________________
> http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=p_boy


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 28 02:50:26 2002
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Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 01:37:33 -0700
From: glenn <glenn234@pacbell.net>
Subject: OT: Request for advice - changing the battery on a linndrum
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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in a tight spot and hoping someone will know...

anyone know the delio with changing the ni-cad batteries on a linndrum (lm-2
w/JL midimod)? I wouldn't ask but it won't hold a pattern for long with new
batts. Is there a trick, a reset/recharge button or button combo to
press???? is it supposed to be charged by being plugged into the wall but
not on or is it okay to have the unit plugged in and on for the 12-14
initial charge period?

Thanks in advance for any help and sorry again for the OT solicitation for
help.

Sincerely,
glenn

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 28 02:51:06 2002
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Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 01:39:08 -0500
From: Matthew Ross Davis <regis@sounding.com>
To: idm@hyperreal.com, chi-improv@yahoogroups.com,
        Electroacoustic@yahoogroups.com, lowercase-sound@yahoogroups.com,
        Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com, deepl@pofinc.org
Subject: Craque @ Deadtech, Chicago 6/29/02
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This Saturday the walls of Deadtech will resound with the rocks of Craque

Doors open at 9pm, there is a suggested donation of $5
but nobody will be turned away due to having no cash!

Come with ready and open ears - the night will unfold as an improvisation
through objects and instruments, computers and electronics. The rig alone
is not to be missed, come with your curiosity intact (sanity not required).

	Craque - improvised electro-acoustic grooves
	Deadtech - 9pm, June 29th, 2002 - $5 donation
	3321 W. Fullerton Ave.
	Chicago, IL

The Trolling for Olives EP, reviewed in Grooves magazine (issue #8),
will be on sale for just $5!

For any additional information, email craque@craque.net

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Subject: Re: Looping: a structural approach...
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>  bruno kleinefeld wrote:
>  (and that goes also together with the fact that if you spend
>
>>  some time listening to MP3 of loopers from around the world -
>>  especially the guitar players ones - they often sounds boooringly 
>>similar...)
>
>  Why stop there?  How about, "if you listen to most *music* from around the
>  world,
>  it sounds boringly similar within it's genera"?  Boy, am I curious to here
>  your
>  music now.
>
>  Mark Sottilaro
>

hi mark

my music is probably the most boring of all
(but I don't see why you point your finger...)

didn't mean to offend anybody
try and forgive me... I need a dictionary by my side to write a mail!

the boredom (a new word! thanks nic!) is not in the particular music of each
of us but in the similarity that intercurres between most of them.

To my ears this means that the technique (or should I say technology)
is overcoming the creativity, just like a photoshop filter!

you're right when you say

"if you listen to most *music* from around the
>  world,
>  it sounds boringly similar within it's genera"?

I never thought about looping as a genus
exactly for the same reason why I never thought about "guitar music" as a genus
(I adore portuguese guitar, as well as hindustani style slide guitar, 
not to mention rock'n'roll)

I thought loop-tools and guitars were instruments...


best

bruno

-- 
___________________________

Bruno E. Kleinefeld
IdeaStudio Officine Editoriali
via Friuli 8c - 20135 Milano
Ph. +39-0254116266
Fax +39-0255010222
__________________________*
--============_-1186870582==_ma============
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<!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<html><head><style type="text/css"><!--
blockquote, dl, ul, ol, li { padding-top: 0 ; padding-bottom: 0 }
 --></style><title>Re: Looping: a structural
approach...</title></head><body>
<div>&gt; bruno kleinefeld wrote:<br>
&gt; (and that goes also together with the fact that if you spend<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; some time listening to MP3 of loopers from around the world
-<br>
&gt;&gt; especially the guitar players ones - they often sounds
boooringly similar...)<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Why stop there? &nbsp;How about, &quot;if you listen to most
*music* from around the<br>
&gt; world,<br>
&gt; it sounds boringly similar within it's genera&quot;? &nbsp;Boy,
am I curious to here<br>
&gt; your<br>
&gt; music now.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Mark Sottilaro<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
hi mark<br>
</div>
<div>my music is probably the most boring of all</div>
<div>(but I don't see why you point your finger...)</div>
<div><br>
didn't mean to offend anybody</div>
<div>try and forgive me... I need a dictionary by my side to write a
mail!</div>
<div><br>
the boredom (a new word! thanks nic!) is not in the particular music
of each<br>
of us but in the similarity that intercurres between most of them.<br>
</div>
<div>To my ears this means that the technique (or should I say
technology)</div>
<div>is overcoming the creativity, just like a photoshop filter!</div>
<div><br>
you're right when you say<br>
</div>
<blockquote>&quot;if you listen to most *music* from around the<br>
&gt; world,<br>
&gt; it sounds boringly similar within it's genera&quot;?<br>
</blockquote>
<div>I never thought about looping as a genus<br>
exactly for the same reason why I never thought about &quot;guitar
music&quot; as a genus<br>
(I adore portuguese guitar, as well as hindustani style slide guitar,
not to mention rock'n'roll)<br>
<br>
I thought loop-tools and guitars were instruments...<br>
<br>
<br>
best<br>
<br>
bruno</div>
<div><br></div>
<x-sigsep><pre>-- 
</pre></x-sigsep>
<div>___________________________<br>
<br>
Bruno E. Kleinefeld<br>
IdeaStudio Officine Editoriali<br>
via Friuli 8c - 20135 Milano<br>
Ph. +39-0254116266<br>
Fax +39-0255010222<br>
__________________________*</div>
</body>
</html>
--============_-1186870582==_ma============--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 28 05:00:21 2002
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Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 10:58:15 +0200
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From: bruno kleinefeld <brunoklein@ideastudioweb.com>
Subject: Re: looping: a structural cucaracha...
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>Bruno,
>
>In a message dated 6/27/02 7:10:05 AM, brunoklein@ideastudioweb.com writes:
>
><snip>
>>in effects looks like technical issues are much
>>more interesting for the majority of us.
><snip>


Hi Ted

just wanted to underline that I am in the lurking mode
for most of the time!

Did you find me unpolite? in case I'm really sorry.
But please let me understand why.
I was just trying to get rid of my personal shiness
(probably stronger then your since english is noy my language,
can you imagine?)
and sollicitate the not lurking people in the list
(often very clever and sharp)
to give some cues and share ideas.

I know the techno discussion are *easier*
and maybe they also respond to immediate or particular needs

but I don't think that this dispense us to try and contemplate other
issues...

At the end what I called a structrural approach wasn't
particulary philosophical in my mind...
but something more simple like" when I loop
I do these operations which correspond to this structure, for example,
a bed of drones and a solo over (very simple ;-)
or a bed of solos that at end become a big drone...
I thought that a list of differents ways and ideas
would have help me to be less
predictable in my looping

just this.

best

bruno

PS: FWIW, OTOH... (pardon me...
sometimes most of the loopfolk forget
that this is an international list)



>Hi there!
>
>FWIW, I (for one) wouldn't say that. However interesting I may
>find a particular discussion, whether techno/gear-related or
>muso/aesthetic-philosophical, I don't respond unless I have
>something semi-substantial (in my own mind at least) to add.
>In other words, if I don't have something fairly meaningful to
>contribute . . . I keep my thoughts to myself pretty much.
>
>I think, perhaps, that a lot of other loopfolk on the list are the
>same way. Many simply "lurk" a lot (like me) . . . just listening in
>on the conversation . . . and responding with a comment when they
>have one -- like me right now. Don't be too hard on us. We're just
>shy and trying hard to be "polite."
>
>OTOH, it's much easier to respond to a post about an issue
>surrounding some piece of gear with the usual "Yeah, I've had
>that problem/bug too . . . or I tried one of those once and didn't
>like it either . . . or what about that new gizmo . . . where did
>you buy yours?" It's easier to put in one's "2 cents" and not
>look like an idiot in those situations.
>
>I guess I don't mind looking like a idiot too much . . . because
>it's pretty obvious by now that I am one. :-) So . . . without
>further ado . . . it's back to lurk mode for me.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Ted Killian


-- 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 28 11:12:38 2002
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Got a Mac port in the works? ;)

Looks great!

-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher MacDonald [mailto:AmbiLoop@evenfall.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 12:57 PM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: new software looper


Hi Everyone,

I have been working on a software looper for Windows.  If anyone is 
interested, it's available here:
http://evenfall.com/ambiloop/
It's pretty simple right now but hopefully I'll be able to add more 
features over time (already working on some now).

Thanks,

Chris MacDonald

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On 6/28/02 at 11:09 AM, BReid@about-inc.com (Reid, Benjamin) wrote:

> Got a Mac port in the works? ;)
> 


LOL


L8r


A

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 28 12:07:46 2002
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Hell o!

In a message dated 6/28/02 1:59:01 AM, brunoklein@ideastudioweb.com writes:

>Did you find me unpolite? 

No! Not at all. I hope it did not seem that this was what I was implying.
I was just saying that many "lurker" or "non-respondsive" LD list member/
subscribers are merely trying to be "polite" by not inserting commentary 
when they have little to ad to a discussion. Personally, I read many, many 
fascinating posts on LD that I may have some thoughts on . . . but, after
thinking about it I realize that I have nothing really very original to say . 
. .
or somebody has already said it better than I would have and it's a waste 
of time to say, "Me too! Me too!"

And . . . maybe it was impolite to insert MY comments into a discussion
where I'd previously only been a listener/observer. I could sense some
disappointment that the list was not responding to your posts "en masse."
I spoke up in defense of all the silent ones.

>but I don't think that this dispense us to try and contemplate other
>issues...

My only point . . . and then I shall go silent again . . . is that many 
CONTEMPLATE 
what is said . . . but do not often speak themselves. That's all I was trying 
to say.
Now I've said too much.

>I thought that a list of differents ways and ideas
>would have help me to be less predictable in my looping

Mine to. The LD list is very helpful in this regard. I've subscribed for 6+
years and it is very important to me. Like I said before  . . . I read
many more posts than I respond to . . . and I believe many others do
as well.

>PS: FWIW, OTOH... (pardon me...
>sometimes most of the loopfolk forget
>that this is an international list)

Sorry! My turn to apologize . . . here's a quick glossary of common
english/american webspeak abbreviations you may find in cyberspace:

FWIW = "For what it's worth"
OTOH = "On the other hand"
IMO = "In my opinion"
IMOHO = "In my own humble opinion"
BTW = "By the way"
LOL = "Laughing out loud"

There are others but these are the ones you'll encounter most often.

Best regards,

Ted Killian

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 <A HREF=3D"http://messe.harmony-central.com/Musikmesse02/">Click here: Harm=
ony Central=AE Musikmesse 2002 Coverage</A>=20

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 28 13:13:28 2002
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Subject: Re: Looping: a structural cucaracha
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I just got my 'Rang a month ago.  I have nothing useful to say.  I'm 
interested in seeing how looping is being done, used, and hearing 
the results.

This discussion was/is interesting from my perspective.

Craig Ramseur
------------------
Now go play!
------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~
Life goes on within you and without you.
                    -- George Harrison
Craig Ramseur
cram@panix.com
Listen at: www.soundclick.com\craigramseur
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 28 13:32:16 2002
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At 11:09 AM 6/28/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>Got a Mac port in the works? ;)

:)  Actually it wouldn't be impossible.  It's built on top of PortAudio 
which is an audio library that is portable across a lot of platforms like 
PC, Mac, BeOS, Linux, etc.  So some ambitious programmer would only have to 
replace the WinAPI front end.

>Looks great!

Thanks.


>-----Original Message-----
>From: Christopher MacDonald [mailto:AmbiLoop@evenfall.com]
>Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 12:57 PM
>To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>Subject: new software looper
>
>
>Hi Everyone,
>
>I have been working on a software looper for Windows.  If anyone is
>interested, it's available here:
>http://evenfall.com/ambiloop/
>It's pretty simple right now but hopefully I'll be able to add more
>features over time (already working on some now).
>
>Thanks,
>
>Chris MacDonald

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 28 14:52:25 2002
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Subject: RE: kaoss pad 2 video 
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Just wanted to say that they also have a Reason 2.0 video demo up as well.
Fidelity on the audio is quite good.

-----Original Message-----
From: Nemoguitt@aol.com [mailto:Nemoguitt@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, June 28, 2002 11:02 AM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: kaoss pad 2 video


Click here: Harmony Central® Musikmesse 2002 Coverage

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<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D319534518-28062002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Just=20
wanted to say that they also have a Reason 2.0 video demo up as =
well.&nbsp;=20
Fidelity on the audio is quite good.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D319534518-28062002></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Nemoguitt@aol.com=20
[mailto:Nemoguitt@aol.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, June 28, 2002 11:02=20
AM<BR><B>To:</B> Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> =
kaoss=20
pad 2 video <BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT =
size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://messe.harmony-central.com/Musikmesse02/">Click here: =
Harmony=20
Central=AE Musikmesse 2002 Coverage</A> </FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 28 16:20:58 2002
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Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 16:18:59 EDT
Subject: Re: looping: a structural cucaracha...
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> Anyhow this issue didn't show up to be very stimulating for the rest
>  of the looping community... in effects looks like technical issues
>  are much more interesting for the majority of us.
>  Obviously I do not pretend that what I propose should be interesting,
>  but the fact that the discussion is so often about gear and not about music

1) what you say about music is interesting and stimulating, keep saying

2) on this list the tech stuff is often creative, stimulating and fun.


andy butler

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Jun 28 18:47:26 2002
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On Friday, June 28, 2002, at 07:29 PM, Christopher MacDonald wrote:

>> Got a Mac port in the works? ;)
>
> :)  Actually it wouldn't be impossible.  It's built on top of PortAudio 
> which is an audio library that is portable across a lot of platforms 
> like PC, Mac, BeOS, Linux, etc.  So some ambitious programmer would 
> only have to replace the WinAPI front end.

I wish that I had a PC to try this on (I'm an OSX man). I've just sent 
your link to a couple of loopers who are not on list (they are French), 
and the feedback that I have had from them is that it looks very very 
interesting!

Are you going to keep the software freeware? If so, have you considered 
GPL'ing it, and giving it to the open source community? Just think? A 
cross platform looping package for linux, Windows and OSX/OS9.

:)

Just a though. I any case, you are doing an amazing job. On behalf of 
the Frenchie loopers, THANKYOU!
--
Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
http://www.solostring.com
stuart@solostring.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 29 01:56:09 2002
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Or be really generous and use the Apache or the BSD license...

"If it's GPL'd, it's not free."

Mark

on 6/28/02 3:23 PM, Stuart Wyatt at stuart@solostring.com wrote:

> Are you going to keep the software freeware? If so, have you considered
> GPL'ing it, and giving it to the open source community? Just think? A
> cross platform looping package for linux, Windows and OSX/OS9.
> 
> :)

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 29 10:53:09 2002
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Subject: mackie powered monitors srm 450's
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last nite my #1 son and i played a fund raiser in a hotel ballroom.....at 
frist i thought that the mackies would not cut it and that i should rent 2 
more, well let me tell ya, just the two were more than enough, i havent 
played a space this big and i was overwhelmed at how they sounded.....all my 
past gigs with the mackies were rather small venues so i never cranked them 
until last nite.....plus i have never spread them apart so much, yikes! the 
stereo effects were spinnin with abandon.....i have always liked these 
speakers but now i love them.....another cool thing, during the dinner 
segment of the gig, i would play a tune then ian would spin a record and so 
on, we would switch off like that, talk about "money for nothing" what a 
pleasure.....while the folks were setting up for the dinner, i was loopin my 
brains out, the air/synth was screamin, i was in heaven but i think i scared 
the waitresses, i had never seen butter and water go down on a table so fast 
in my life.....oh well.....michael

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 29 11:55:54 2002
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Mike,

In a message dated 6/29/02 7:51:42 AM, Nemoguitt@aol.com writes:

>last nite my #1 son and i played a fund raiser in a hotel ballroom...

I'm envious. I've been trying to get my kids interested in music 
(of any kind) for years and years . . . all to no avail.

Oh well . . .

Ted

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 29 14:39:20 2002
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Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 11:37:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Pedro Felix <pfelix28@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: looping: a structural cucaracha...
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bruno -

agreed. i myself am lurking this thread and am in
agreement. then again, i'm an agreeable gent :)i'm
just waiting to see where our thoughts deviate. i'll
be sure to chime in then.

best regards, Pedro Felix - NYC 2002
--- SoundFNR@aol.com wrote:
> > Anyhow this issue didn't show up to be very
> stimulating for the rest
> >  of the looping community... in effects looks like
> technical issues
> >  are much more interesting for the majority of us.
> >  Obviously I do not pretend that what I propose
> should be interesting,
> >  but the fact that the discussion is so often
> about gear and not about music
> 
> 1) what you say about music is interesting and
> stimulating, keep saying
> 
> 2) on this list the tech stuff is often creative,
> stimulating and fun.
> 
> 
> andy butler
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Jun 29 15:05:27 2002
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At 12:23 AM 6/29/2002 +0200, Stuart wrote:
>I wish that I had a PC to try this on (I'm an OSX man). I've just sent 
>your link to a couple of loopers who are not on list (they are French), 
>and the feedback that I have had from them is that it looks very very 
>interesting!

Hi Stuart. Thanks for passing it along!

>Are you going to keep the software freeware? If so, have you considered 
>GPL'ing it, and giving it to the open source community? Just think? A 
>cross platform looping package for linux, Windows and OSX/OS9.

Good questions!  I don't really have a grand scheme for it I guess but it 
will definitely be freeware for the forseeable future.  I suppose if it 
starts to consume all my time or begins to incur expenses to keep going I 
could ask for donations or switch to a shareware setup.  Hmm, I'll have to 
research the license more before I can offer a response to the GPL question.

>Just a though. I any case, you are doing an amazing job. On behalf of the 
>Frenchie loopers, THANKYOU!

Thanks!

-Chris

>--
>Stuart Wyatt - Solo String Project
>http://www.solostring.com
>stuart@solostring.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 30 00:11:25 2002
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Well, I for one, feel an unindellable bond between the music and the 
technology.  I'm not sure where one ends and the other begins.  Me, the 
guitars, synths, loopers, effects, it's all one big blur.

Mark Sottilaro

On Friday, June 28, 2002, at 01:18  PM, SoundFNR@aol.com wrote:

>> Anyhow this issue didn't show up to be very stimulating for the rest
>>  of the looping community... in effects looks like technical issues
>>  are much more interesting for the majority of us.
>>  Obviously I do not pretend that what I propose should be interesting,
>>  but the fact that the discussion is so often about gear and not about 
>> music
>
> 1) what you say about music is interesting and stimulating, keep saying
>
> 2) on this list the tech stuff is often creative, stimulating and fun.
>
>
> andy butler
>

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At 02:35 PM 6/25/2002, Neil Goldstein wrote:

>Seems like careful programming (and writing on paper for easy recall!) of
>Presets will pay off big time, and allow for fewer banks.
>
>Wonder what's the latency for Preset changes via midi prg change?

Preset changes should happen within 1.5ms after the midi Program Change 
command is received. That is generally the guaranteed rate in which any 
command you give will happen, and is faster than humanly noticeable.

kim



______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com

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At 04:34 PM 6/21/02, you wrote:
I just visited the Copyright Office site (the URL above) and chided the 
Librarian of Congress for pandering to the record companies


Hi Richard,

I'd be interested to hear the gist of what you said.

Tom


Tom Heasley
NEW CD AVAILABLE:  On the Sensations of Tone,  (www.innova.mu)
ALSO AVAILABLE:  Where the Earth Meets the Sky,  (www.hypnos.com)

New Reviews:  http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=B31kveai44x07~C
                 http://www.instrumentalweekly.com/reviewarchive/jun2002/20020605b.asp

http://bayimproviser.com/TomHeasley
427 Alma St., Suite 206
Palo Alto, CA  94301
P:  650.322.3633
F:  419.831.3809
E:  tom@tomheasley.com
WEBSITE COMING SOON:  TOMHEASLEY.COM

Upcoming Solo Concerts / Appearances:

Sunday, July 7, 2002, 9:30 A.M.
Live Radio Performance/Interview
KKUP-FM, Cupertino, CA

Saturday, July 20, 2002
Solo Concert
TUVA Space
3192 Adeline
Berkeley, CA
Info:  510.655.9755


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<html>
At 04:34 PM 6/21/02, you wrote:<br>
I just visited the Copyright Office site (the URL above) and chided the
Librarian of Congress for pandering to the record companies<br><br>
<br>
Hi Richard,<br><br>
I'd be interested to hear the gist of what you said.<br><br>
Tom <br><br>
<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
<font face="Comic Sans MS" size=4><b><i>Tom Heasley<br>
</b></font><font face="Comic Sans MS">NEW CD AVAILABLE:&nbsp; <u>On the
Sensations of Tone</u>,&nbsp;
(<a href="http://www.innova.mu/" eudora="autourl">www.innova.mu</a>)<br>
ALSO AVAILABLE:&nbsp; <u>Where the Earth Meets the Sky</u>,&nbsp;
(<a href="http://www.hypnos.com/" eudora="autourl">www.hypnos.com</a>)<br><br>
New Reviews:&nbsp;
<a href="http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&amp;sql=B31kveai44x07~C" eudora="autourl">http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&amp;sql=B31kveai44x07~C</a><br>
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab><x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab><a href="http://www.instrumentalweekly.com/reviewarchive/jun2002/20020605b.asp" eudora="autourl">http://www.instrumentalweekly.com/reviewarchive/jun2002/20020605b.asp</a><br><br>
</i></font><font face="Comic Sans MS" color="#0000FF"><u><a href="http://bayimproviser.com/TomHeasley" eudora="autourl">http://bayimproviser.com/TomHeasley</a><br>
</u></font><font face="Comic Sans MS">427 Alma St., Suite 206&nbsp;&nbsp;
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab><br>
Palo Alto, CA&nbsp; 94301<br>
P:&nbsp;
650.322.3633<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab><x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab><br>
F:&nbsp; 419.831.3809<br>
E:&nbsp; tom@tomheasley.com<br>
<i>WEBSITE COMING SOON:&nbsp; TOMHEASLEY.COM<br><br>
Upcoming Solo Concerts / Appearances:<br><br>
Sunday, July 7, 2002, 9:30 A.M.<br>
Live Radio Performance/Interview<br>
KKUP-FM, Cupertino, CA<br><br>
Saturday, July 20, 2002<br>
Solo Concert<br>
TUVA Space<br>
3192 Adeline<br>
Berkeley, CA<br>
Info:&nbsp; 510.655.9755<br><br>
</font></i></html>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 30 14:35:17 2002
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At 06:02 AM 6/23/02, you wrote:
>musical artists should get paid for what they do, with-or-without the
>internet.

IV-I,

Tom

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<html>
At 06:02 AM 6/23/02, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>musical artists should get paid for
what they do, with-or-without the <br>
internet.</blockquote><br>
IV-I,<br><br>
Tom <br>
</html>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 30 14:41:00 2002
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At 11:15 AM -0700 6/30/02, Tom Heasley wrote:
>At 04:34 PM 6/21/02, you wrote:
>I just visited the Copyright Office site (the URL above) and chided 
>the Librarian of Congress for pandering to the record companies
>
>
>I'd be interested to hear the gist of what you said.

Just that the decision to adopt the .07¢ per song per stream royalty 
scheme would serve to destroy the grass-roots Webcasting community 
and turn the Web over to large commercial interests.
-- 

______________________________________________________________
Richard Zvonar, PhD
(818) 788-2202
http://www.zvonar.com
http://RZCybernetics.com
http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz

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>Tom Heasley: On The Sensations of Tone
>
><http://www.innova.mu/>Innova (2002)
>
>
>
>Tom Heasley s ambient tuba work is just plain lush.  Besides tuba, 
>composer/performer Heasley also experiments with digital processing and 
>throat singing on this release.  This work is improvised in the studio, 
>without edits, which makes for an incredible attention-to-detail 
>listen.  Of the two pieces here Prelude , which was recorded and mixed by 
>the ubiquitous Robert Rich, loses no subtleties in its open-air, beatless 
>structure.  It s sense of space is unusual as it is of the essence of San 
>Francisco fog sensitively rolling in over the hills.  At 42 minutes Thonts 
>is the centerpiece here.  Chilling and atmospheric who knew the tuba could 
>do that? this is an evocative piece of music to be reckoned 
>with.  Recorded in Philadelphia this reminds me of sounds you might hear 
>in the wilderness of the lost lava pits of Iceland.  Before venturing 
>solo, Bay Area-based Heasley played with a range of musicians from polar 
>genres including Charlie Haden s Liberation Music Orchestra, Pauline 
>Oliveros, Thomas Buckner, Eugene Chadbourne, Fred Frith, Loren Mazzacane 
>Connors and ex-Mother of Invention Don Preston.  This versatility has 
>served his sensibilities well.  He has played in museums and in barns, in 
>grand opera halls and in living rooms.  On The Sensations of Tone is truly 
>a one-of-a-kind, sensory-driven composition.  Heasley s follow-up to Where 
>The Earth Meets The Sky (Hypnos) is full with a stark depth that could be 
>called mind yoga.  This is by far, the ambient release of the year (and it 
>s only June!).
>
>
>
>I am writing to you as the new music/film and visual/performing arts 
>writer for Just Out one of Portland Oregon s news and entertainment 
>newspapers.  I will feature profiles and reviews of electronic and avante 
>garde soundworks by composers that you represent and from labels such as 
>yours.  This publication is released every two weeks.  In a former life I 
>spent time on Boston s WZBC-FM as a guest DJ presenting ambient and 
>hard-to-find obscure music.  If there are any new releases for which you 
>wish to have reviewed in this publication you may use the below contact 
>information.  Please view some sample reviews on my website: 
><http://tjnorris.net/review.htm>http://tjnorris.net/review.htm.  (Reviews 
>include: Atom Heart, Merzbow, Ultra Milkmaids, gusgus, K2, and many more).
>
>
>
>Read latest reviews 
>here: 
><http://tjnorris.net/review061502.htm>http://tjnorris.net/review061502.htm
>
>TJ Norris
>
>Just Out / Underground Studio
>
>3141 SE Taylor Street
>
>Portland, Oregon 97214 USA
>
>Phone: 503-238-7007
>
><http://www.tjnorris.net>www.tjnorris.net

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<html>
<font face=3D"arial"><br><br>
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite><b>Tom Heasley: <i>On The
Sensations of Tone<br>
</i></b></font><br>
<font face=3D"arial"><b><a href=3D"http://www.innova.mu/">Innova</a>
(2002)<br>
</b></font><br>
<font face=3D"arial">&nbsp;<br>
</font><br>
<font face=3D"arial">Tom Heasley s ambient tuba work is just plain=
 lush.&nbsp; Besides tuba, composer/performer Heasley also experiments with=
 digital processing and throat singing on this release.&nbsp; This work is=
 improvised in the studio, without edits, which makes for an incredible=
 attention-to-detail listen.&nbsp; Of the two pieces here Prelude , which=
 was recorded and mixed by the ubiquitous Robert Rich, loses no subtleties=
 in its open-air, beatless structure.&nbsp; It s sense of space is unusual=
 as it is of the essence of San Francisco fog sensitively rolling in over=
 the hills.&nbsp; At 42 minutes Thonts is the centerpiece here.&nbsp;=
 Chilling and atmospheric who knew the tuba could do that? this is an=
 evocative piece of music to be reckoned with.&nbsp; Recorded in=
 Philadelphia this reminds me of sounds you might hear in the wilderness of=
 the lost lava pits of Iceland.&nbsp; Before venturing solo, Bay Area-based=
 Heasley played with a range of musicians from polar genres including=
 Charlie Haden s Liberation Music Orchestra, Pauline Oliveros, Thomas=
 Buckner, Eugene Chadbourne, Fred Frith, Loren Mazzacane Connors and=
 ex-Mother of Invention Don Preston.&nbsp; This versatility has served his=
 sensibilities well.&nbsp; He has played in museums and in barns, in grand=
 opera halls and in living rooms.&nbsp; <b><i>On The Sensations of=
 Tone</i></b> is truly a one-of-a-kind, sensory-driven composition.&nbsp;=
 Heasley s follow-up to<b><i> </b>Where The Earth Meets The Sky</i> (Hypnos)=
 is full with a stark depth that could be called mind yoga.&nbsp; This is by=
 far, the ambient release of the year (and it s only June!).<br>
</font><br>
<font face=3D"arial" size=3D2 color=3D"#000080">&nbsp;<br>
</font><br>
<font face=3D"arial" size=3D2>I am writing to you as the new music/film and=
 visual/performing arts writer for <b><i>Just Out</i></b> one of Portland=
 Oregon s news and entertainment newspapers.&nbsp; I will feature profiles=
 and reviews of electronic and avante garde soundworks by composers that you=
 represent and from labels such as yours.&nbsp; This publication is released=
 every two weeks.&nbsp; In a former life I spent time on Boston s WZBC-FM as=
 a guest DJ presenting ambient and hard-to-find obscure music.&nbsp; If=
 there are any new releases for which you wish to have reviewed in this=
 publication you may use the below contact information.&nbsp; Please view=
 some sample</font><font face=3D"arial" size=3D2 color=3D"#000080">=
 </font><font face=3D"arial" size=3D2>reviews on my website: <a=
 href=3D"http://tjnorris.net/review.htm">http://tjnorris.net/review.htm</a>.=
</font><font face=3D"arial" size=3D2 color=3D"#000080">&nbsp; (Reviews=
 include: Atom Heart, Merzbow, Ultra Milkmaids, gusgus, K2, and many=
 more).<br>
</font><br>
<font face=3D"arial" size=3D2 color=3D"#000080">&nbsp;<br>
</font><br>
<font face=3D"arial" size=3D2>Read latest reviews here:&nbsp; </font><a=
 href=3D"http://tjnorris.net/review061502.htm"><font face=3D"arial" size=3D2=
 color=3D"#000080">http://tjnorris.net/review061502.htm</a><br>
</font><br>
<font face=3D"Arial Black, Helvetica" size=3D2>TJ Norris<br>
</font><br>
<font face=3D"Arial Black, Helvetica" size=3D2>Just Out / Underground=
 Studio<br>
</font><br>
<font face=3D"Arial Black, Helvetica" size=3D2>3141 SE Taylor Street<br>
</font><br>
<font face=3D"Arial Black, Helvetica" size=3D2>Portland, Oregon 97214=
 USA<br>
</font><br>
<font face=3D"Arial Black, Helvetica" size=3D2>Phone: 503-238-7007<br>
</font><br>
<font face=3D"Arial Black, Helvetica" size=3D2><a href=3D"http://www.tjnorri=
s.net">www.tjnorris.net</a></font></blockquote></html>

--=====================_45730104==_.ALT--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 30 21:45:04 2002
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To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: OT: D-tuner for Steinberger types
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 18:43:26 -0700
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Sorry all. I know this is pretty off topic, but I also know there are a lot 
of 'Berger and Klein players on this list who I thought might be interested 
in these little gems. So, just in case anyone is, I thought I would pass on 
the link.

http://www.langleyguitars.com/DHead.htm

They have only just gone on sale last week but they have been beta tested by 
a bunch of the guys on the Steinberger World Yahoo group and have received 
nothing but glowing reviews.

-p

_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 30 21:50:13 2002
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Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 18:48:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ernesto Schnack <e_schnack@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: looping: a structural approach
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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> From: bruno kleinefeld
> Anyhow this issue didn't show up to be very
> stimulating for the rest
> of the looping community... in effects looks
> like technical issues
> are much more interesting for the majority of
> us.

I think it's just that there has to be some
element of the technical side, otherwise it can
get very vague.  Especially since what you
can/can't do depends a lot on what looper you
own.  For example, I find Andre's explanations of
what he's doing very interesting, but a lot of it
is only possible with the EDP, so it can be
confusing for those not familiar with specific
EDP functions.

On that note, one concept I'd like to explore is
to take the idea of the "looper as an instrument"
further by having a seperate person operating it.
 In my experience this leads to much more
interesting possibilities.  

My friend wrote a looping program for his thesis,
based on some of my ideas (he jokingly named it
"Schnackertronics"), and what i found was that
after the first few seconds of playing I forgot
about the looping aspect of it, and just reacted
to what came out of his laptop just like i would
any other instrument.  So the end result ends up
being a lot more dynamic.
Of course it helps that he built effects into the
program with a high "mangleage" factor, so it
quickly stops sounding like a guitar. And also he
has 4 independent loops of different lengths,
which by itself makes quite a difference.  But
since he can totally concentrate on the looping
aspect of it, he has a lot more control, as
opposed to me stepping on a bunch of pedals,
while still trying to play something decent on my
guitar.

just a thought,
Ernesto


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Jun 30 21:50:22 2002
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Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 18:49:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ernesto Schnack <e_schnack@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: looping: a structural approach
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> From: bruno kleinefeld
> Anyhow this issue didn't show up to be very
> stimulating for the rest
> of the looping community... in effects looks
> like technical issues
> are much more interesting for the majority of
> us.

I think it's just that there has to be some
element of the technical side, otherwise it can
get very vague.  Especially since what you
can/can't do depends a lot on what looper you
own.  For example, I find Andre's explanations of
what he's doing very interesting, but a lot of it
is only possible with the EDP, so it can be
confusing for those not familiar with specific
EDP functions.

On that note, one concept I'd like to explore is
to take the idea of the "looper as an instrument"
further by having a seperate person operating it.
 In my experience this leads to much more
interesting possibilities.  

My friend wrote a looping program for his thesis,
based on some of my ideas (he jokingly named it
"Schnackertronics"), and what i found was that
after the first few seconds of playing I forgot
about the looping aspect of it, and just reacted
to what came out of his laptop just like i would
any other instrument.  So the end result ends up
being a lot more dynamic.
Of course it helps that he built effects into the
program with a high "mangleage" factor, so it
quickly stops sounding like a guitar. And also he
has 4 independent loops of different lengths,
which by itself makes quite a difference.  But
since he can totally concentrate on the looping
aspect of it, he has a lot more control, as
opposed to me stepping on a bunch of pedals,
while still trying to play something decent on my
guitar.

just a thought,
Ernesto


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Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 20:52:09 -0700
Subject: Re: OT: D-tuner for Steinberger types
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In case anyone wonders about the usefulness of such a device, I own one 
of the Steinberger Q bass's  (I think it's a pretty rare bird) with a 
built in drop D tuner, and it's really nice to drop down from time to 
time.

Mark  Sottilaro

On Sunday, June 30, 2002, at 06:43  PM, Peter Underwood wrote:

> Sorry all. I know this is pretty off topic, but I also know there are a 
> lot of 'Berger and Klein players on this list who I thought might be 
> interested in these little gems. So, just in case anyone is, I thought 
> I would pass on the link.
>
> http://www.langleyguitars.com/DHead.htm
>
> They have only just gone on sale last week but they have been beta 
> tested by a bunch of the guys on the Steinberger World Yahoo group and 
> have received nothing but glowing reviews.
>
> -p
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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