From ???@??? Sat Aug 01 12:20:42 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id EAA15427; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 04:20:42 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 04:20:42 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Sender: mpeters@csi.com Message-ID: <01BDBD35.2458AEF0.mpeters@csi.com> From: Michael Peters To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: AW: Eavesdropping on Mars Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 10:13:35 +0200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-Mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3Pzgt.0.3X3.Lyimr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/873 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > Thanks for passing this information on... there is detailed information somewhere on the Planetary Society webpage at http://planetary.org * michael peters mpeters@csi.com * "escape veloopity" electronic guitar loop music * http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Mpeters From ???@??? Sat Aug 01 12:20:45 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id EAA20641; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 04:35:10 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 04:35:10 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <01BDBD37.AB0DC820@ubnd-41.pop-brussel.planetinternet.be> From: Serge Devadder To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: Echoplex in Belgium? 2nd try Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 10:30:54 +-200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"AJS623.0.kr4.kAjmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/874 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hello loopers, Since I didn t find my mail in the digest, I post it a second time with some additions: After reading about the Echoplex in the Looper's pages, I really wanted such a thing. But after a few weeks hunting in Belgian music-shops around Brussels and Antwerp, I have come to believe the EDP is like the Loch Ness monster: it's picture is on the web, everybody's talking about it, but does it really exist...??? No one sells it. As soon as I mention the word Oberheim, vendors get this worried expression on their face. Many complain about Oberheim service and refuse to list the stuff. Like Claude Lassonde in Montreal, I was told the story that Oberheim no longer lists the EDP. Moreover Oberheim seems to have a peculiar idea of customer service. None of my mails get answered, and the Echoplex-page is indeed still on the Gibson website. I do not know of many succesful companies that ignore requests saying "I like your product! I want it! I need it! Please, please sell it to me!". Those that do so, end up in Dilbert cartoons. In any case I am surprised at how few looping devices are available. With all those experimental musicians outthere who worship Fripp, how come you need to kill for a JamMan or EDP? Not everyone can afford a TC Electronics box, and judging by the stories I hear, even the smallest shops get 2-3 requests for looping devices every week. There's a market out there but nobody seems to want it... Since I first tried to post this last week, I've seen that even in sunny California finding an EDP is not a sinecure. Does any European looper know of a distributor for the EDP in a city near Brussels (Paris? Amsterdam? Cologne? London?...). Thanks! Serge Devadder Brussel, Belgium serge.devadder@planetinternet.be From ???@??? Sat Aug 01 12:20:59 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id JAA04729; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 09:40:09 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 09:40:09 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980801133438.006d91b0@mail.dada.it> X-Sender: cavallo@mail.dada.it (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 01 Aug 1998 15:34:38 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Leonardo Cavallo Subject: Torn acid loops Resent-Message-ID: <"CKoh41.0.F61.fenmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/876 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hi guys I think this could be interesting: Madison, WI - Sonic Foundry (AMEX:SFO) introduces seven new loop libraries in their Loops for ACID series. The libraries: Street Beats by poogie bell, Signals I and II Analog Synth Dance Loops, and Funky xtreams I and II, Syntonic Generator, and Pandora's Toolbox were created by leading sound designers and optimized to take advantage of ACID's time stretching capabilities. ACID is Sonic Foundry's loop-based music creation software. The loop libraries are original and license free. Pandora's Toolbox A collection of unusal sounds from the master of loops, David Torn. If you need to add a creepy or weird element to your project, look no further. ciao leo From ???@??? Sat Aug 01 12:21:02 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id KAA17152; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 10:32:02 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 10:32:02 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: klaw@iglou.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <01b901bdbcd1$6d810280$4a419ad1@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: new way of using samples in live performance Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 10:29:13 -0400 Resent-Message-ID: <"EwvPw.0.-64.KPomr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/877 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > I ve also>developed a new way of using samples in live >performance.Rather than using>a sequencer ,I am programming varios >control schemes using EMU E6400&>pc1600 great results last gig!Im blessed >to live in a city(Louisville)>with so many creatiiveand responsive >people.Glad to see more activity on this list!  K LAW Could you >provide more details on how you're using samples in live performance. I'm >wondering about the pc1600, and would like to learn more. Bill >Cummingsdrums@myself.com Bill in case you didnt get this on the list : let me know if you have any further questions& buy a Pc 1600! K lAW Yeah be happy to.The current EOS allows you to use 8 different divisions of the clock (internal or external)as a modulation source.This "cord" as its referred to can be applied to pitch, sample retrig,filter cutoff, lfo rates & many other targets to metion here.Rather than using my sequencer to play a piece ,I set the constant midi clock output from it as a timing reference.Ive set up multiple voices(samples with processing)stacked on top of each other & crossfading them.This creates a complex sereies of rythmic melodic relationships that I can set up to bleed into each other or chop on off in accordance to the midi tempo coming from the sequencer.This of couse means I can sync this whole gyrating sonic thunderstorm with a real live human drummer or band for that matter.I set up many different midi controllers on the Emu (some usual stuff :ptch,filteretc and some not so unusual like smming all the clock divisors and choosing how much one (or more )will affect the samples.THis is contolled by the 1600 with faders & footpedals I also have a Dbeam.I use analog drum loops, guitar chiffs ,field recordings usually taken from tapes or dats etc in the sampler & its cool to switch the samples while playing one of these "sequences"that adds yet another truly improvisation element because the content changes but maintains rhythmic integrity.Its actually possible to take one sample & get dozens of radical permutations using the cords matrix in the EOS.I also program screwwd up sampling patches in my Etide to stretch & warp layers of sound independently from others.Everthing supports the other very well,everone usually gets along.thats the good thing about it.Thats why Im keeping my Emu for now-cant do this with any other sampler-Maybe Kurzweil? ok KYMA but lets not get into that.THe basic gist of it is I wantsd to get away from playing preprogrammed midi sequences live & really improvise with the sampler & its great.My goal is to merge live instruments & sampling to create a new organic sound like you here it & it doesnt sound" electronic" but it is .This whole thing came together so quickly (however through months of expiermentation)setting up controllers isnt easy .You have to go to each EOS preset & manually assign them .No way to copy. BTW I sucessfully looped a aux feed from the board back into my looping rig .Going to do this in a more acoustic setting (becomes pretty unstable loud)Pretty cool hearing those live drums looped & reversed(:.If interesed I have a cd with some examples Ive described . Take care K LAW From ???@??? Sat Aug 01 12:21:14 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA19789; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 13:25:13 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 13:25:13 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 12:30:51 -0400 From: Andreas Willers Subject: Echoplex in Belgium? 2nd try Sender: Andreas Willers To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Message-ID: <199808011231_MC2-54D3-57F@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"vvvxn1.0.dn4.Xxqmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/878 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hi Serge, the EDP is currently unavailable in Europe due to the lack of a 'CE'-approval. And You are right, most stores in the US just 'don't carry Oberheim', I don't know why. I mail ordered one and got my money back after six months instead. Kim mentioned that they maybe start shipping out CE-approved EDP's to Europe this September......any news, Kim? The store called 'Syntheziserstudio Bonn' in the Cologne area used to have them before the CE thing happened. Best, Andreas From ???@??? Sat Aug 01 12:21:16 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA21890; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 13:53:42 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 13:53:42 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Marzzz@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 13:51:04 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Torn acid loops Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Resent-Message-ID: <"RMT2c2.0.qJ5.4Nrmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/879 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 8/1/98 8:39:50 AM, Leo wrote: >Pandora's Toolbox > >A collection of unusal sounds from the master of loops, David Torn. If you >need to add a creepy or weird element to your project, look no further. "Creepy or weird?" Hmmmmm......... Marshall From ???@??? Sat Aug 01 12:21:20 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA26243; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 14:51:42 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 14:51:42 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <19980801184620.16633.rocketmail@web4.rocketmail.com> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 11:46:20 -0700 (PDT) From: "Rev. Doubt-Goat" Subject: minidisk as loop documenter? To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"a5JQk.0.-M6.8Dsmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/880 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com 93 I have a problem. I can't afford a dat. My cassette player, which I've been using as a loop documenter, is right next to dead, and I've always been a bit disappointed with the noise floor. So, I've been considering getting the Sony Mini-disk thingie for those mongo long 40+ minute loop masterpieces. The question is, at $300 for the mini-disk, would I actually get better (a relative term if there ever was one!) sound quality from the mini-disk than I would from a similarly priced cassette deck? I'm going from a SansAmp PSA-1 to a pair of DOD grey box cabinet emulators to a Mackie 1202 to the 2-track medium. Private replies would be fine if this is likely to start a flame war. 93 Rev. Doubt-Goat === The Homepages of the Doubt-Goat The Darsan Trio Sekhet Maat Oasis, O.T.O. http://www.spiritone.com/~skhtmt/ _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From ???@??? Sat Aug 01 12:20:55 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id GAA26555; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 06:43:47 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 06:43:47 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980801123009.1fbf3a56@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> X-Sender: pycraft@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 1998 12:30:09 To: msottila@mailbox.syr.edu, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Michael Pycraft Hughes Subject: Re: The definition of art. In-Reply-To: <35C20BAE.3D8197B6@mailbox.syr.edu> References: <35C1E7D9.131FB1D8@intcpi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Ls1PC2.0.FR6.f3lmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/875 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 01:23 PM 7/31/98 -0500, mark sottilaro wrote: >Art is human expression which has no use other than to define itself. >Cooking, is not considered a fine art, as it's main function is to transfer >nutrients from food, to humans. Cooking, is a craft. The different from art >and craft is in the purpose. Are there aesthetics used in cooking? Of >course, but the use of aesthetics principals doesn't necessarily produce fine >art. Of course you pick a pleasant color when you paint your house, but the >main reason you paint it (or aluminum side it) is to protect the wood from the >elements. Painting a house is not art, but craft. Painting a mural on a >house is art because there is no reason to do this, other than to express an >idea or feeling. Fine art has no other purpose other than to be itself. > >Oh boy, I bet that I've opened up a can of worms! Well, this can's been open for about a century - it first came about in the preface to Oscar Wilde's "Picture of Dorian Grey" (I think?), which ended in the line "All art is quite useless". As for defining art, it's about as pointless as defining science, philosophy or religeon. Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes, University of Glasgow, Glasgow UK G12 8QQ -------------------------------------------------------------------- "What can be done with fewer assumptions is done in vain with more" - William of Occam (1285-1347) (now called Occam's Razor) -------------------------------------------------------------------- www.elec.gla.ac.uk/~pycraft pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk From ???@??? Sat Aug 01 17:41:36 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id SAA01480; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 18:56:55 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 18:56:55 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980801184726.006d2934@popmail.voicenet.com> X-Sender: ngc1275@popmail.voicenet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 1998 18:47:26 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Theatre of the Mind Subject: Re: Torn acid loops In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19980801133438.006d91b0@mail.dada.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"4CNWl3.0.nW7.Mivmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/881 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 03:34 PM 8/1/98 +0200, you wrote: >Hi guys > >I think this could be interesting: > > > >Madison, WI - Sonic Foundry (AMEX:SFO) introduces seven new loop libraries >in their Loops for ACID series. The libraries: Street Beats by poogie bell, >Signals I and II Analog Synth Dance Loops, and Funky xtreams I and II, >Syntonic Generator, and Pandora's Toolbox were created by leading sound >designers and optimized to take advantage of ACID's time stretching >capabilities. ACID is Sonic Foundry's loop-based music creation software. >The loop libraries are original and license free. > > >Pandora's Toolbox > >A collection of unusal sounds from the master of loops, David Torn. If you >need to add a creepy or weird element to your project, look no further. > > >ciao >leo > > > So, we got Torn on Acid,,,,,cool. I'll keep my eyes peeled for it here on the east coast. I'm impressed that they're using stuff from David Torn. Does this mean D.T. is becoming more comercially accepted or Sounic Foundry is more insightful or both? I just find it amusing how "fads" eb and flow. Who is poogie bell? Loop-on, Mark of b. (or Eb) From ???@??? Sun Aug 02 13:04:00 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id IAA30595 for kflint@annihilist.com; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 08:23:43 -0400 Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 08:23:43 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-From_: patrick@his.com Sun Aug 2 08:23:39 1998 Received: from mail.his.com (root@mail.his.com [205.177.25.9]) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) with ESMTP id IAA30550 for ; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 08:23:39 -0400 Received: from [205.177.96.56] (pm5-116.his.com [205.177.96.116]) by mail.his.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA15910 for ; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 08:23:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Old-Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 06:49:50 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: ignore X-Diagnostic: undecipherable, help sent X-Envelope-To: Loopers-Delight ... From ???@??? Sun Aug 02 13:04:03 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id JAA13136 for kflint@annihilist.com; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 09:02:48 -0400 Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 09:02:48 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-From_: patrick@his.com Sun Aug 2 09:02:46 1998 Received: from mail.his.com (root@mail.his.com [205.177.25.9]) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) with ESMTP id JAA13112 for ; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 09:02:46 -0400 Received: from [205.177.96.56] (pm3-59.his.com [205.177.96.59]) by mail.his.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA06401 for ; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 09:02:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Old-Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 07:28:56 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: ignore X-Diagnostic: undecipherable, help sent X-Envelope-To: Loopers-Delight ... From ???@??? Sun Aug 02 13:04:04 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id KAA08416; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 10:15:00 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 10:15:00 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Sender: r_t_cummings@csi.com Message-ID: <35C46D6B.A96F8102@csi.com> Date: Sun, 02 Aug 1998 15:45:15 +0200 From: Cummings X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: loopers Subject: Jamman footpedal schematic Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"44AHP.0.Us1.dF7nr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/882 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com OK, I know this was discussed in the past - but now I've had enough problems with my Lexicon Jamman footpedal that I want to build my own. Have any of you already done this? Could you please send me info (schematics, enclosure, preferred switch) on doing it - I'd be willing to HTML it for the Looper's page, too. Thanks, Rob From ???@??? Sun Aug 02 14:54:09 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA31571; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 17:52:49 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 17:52:49 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 14:46:18 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: looping popularity Resent-Message-ID: <"KIVOW2.0.YL7.VwDnr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/883 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Thought some of you might be interested....The Looper's Delight website had its 200,000th page-view hit in the last week, since I started keeping track on Jan. 1, 1997. Kind of amazing, huh? kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Aug 02 17:50:54 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA30359; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 19:04:20 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 19:04:20 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <000c01bdbe69$78b65260$d9d1fea9@stepheng> Reply-To: "Stephen P. Goodman" From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: Re: looping popularity Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 16:01:08 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"lmgL81.0.pC7.p_Enr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/884 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Congratulations, Kim! Hmm, what ARE your meta keywords...? [s] Stephen Goodman EarthLight Productions * http://www.earthlight.net From ???@??? Sun Aug 02 17:50:58 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id UAA21665; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 20:03:14 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 20:03:14 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Fmplautus@aol.com Message-ID: <46ace561.35c4fd86@aol.com> Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 20:00:05 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Loop Doctors ask...where is CD? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 84 Resent-Message-ID: <"uXqvK1.0.z55.4tFnr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/885 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Anybody seen Matt around these parts? What's the status of the 2nd LooperDelight cd? Best, the LoOpdOctOrs From ???@??? Mon Aug 03 10:16:36 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id JAA32291; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 09:03:09 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 09:03:09 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35C5B470.7EEC8954@vm.temple.edu> Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 09:00:32 -0400 From: "Sean O'Donnell" Reply-To: sodonne@vm.temple.edu Organization: Temple University Center for Research in Human Development and Education X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: new way of using samples in live performance References: <01b901bdbcd1$6d810280$4a419ad1@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"XeTUO.0.ro7.4IRnr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/886 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > Bill Cummings wrote: > > I ve also > >developed a new way of using samples in live performance.Rather than > using > >a sequencer ,I am programming varios control schemes using EMU E6400& > >pc1600 great results last gig!Im blessed to live in a > city(Louisville) > >with so many creatiive > and responsive people.Glad to see more activity on this list! K LAW > > Could you provide more details on how you're using samples in live > performance. I'm wondering about the pc1600, and would like to learn > more. > Bill Cummings > drums@myself.com I would also like to know what you are doing with the PC1600 and your E-MU. I use my PC1600 to control an Ensoniq ASR-10, JamMan, and Alesis Quadraverb Plus. So far, I've been using it in studio recording moreso than live performances. My setup: I've assigned the buttons on the PC1600 to activate the various tap and fade functions of the JamMan. It expands the JamMan interface by assigning a button to each function, e.g. layer, replace, mute, and fade. So, the really nice thing is that I don't have to switch modes on the fly if I want to layer then replace then mute. It is a simple yet great enhancement to my JamMan setup. Meanwhile, the faders are assigned to the Alesis Quadraverb which allows up to eight continuous controllers. I use this setup to create bizarro loops which I will sometimes feed into my ASR-10 for additional tweeking. Anyone else using the PC-1600 out there? Sean From ???@??? Mon Aug 03 10:16:38 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id JAA00752; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 09:11:37 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 09:11:37 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <010401bdbee0$cea4cae0$c5b854ce@mark.asisoftware.com> From: Mark@asisoftware.com (Mark Kata) To: "Loopers Delight" Subject: Software Synthesizer Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 09:15:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"qddZ03.0.A7.HQRnr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/887 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Craig Anderton wrote about this software synthesizer in the September 1998 issue of Keyboard. I downloaded it and, although it took me a while to get a sound out of it, I was very impressed. It reminded me of when I bought my Arp 2600 in 1978. (At first, I couldn't figure out how to turn it on, and later, I couldn't figure out how to stop it from playing.) Lots of neat drones. Here are the URLs: http://www.harmony-central.com/Software/Windows/orangator.html http://www.t-rex.org/orangator/ Mark Kata Mark@asisoftware.com From ???@??? Mon Aug 03 17:36:23 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA17944; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:06:13 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:06:13 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 15:29:04 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: 1963-4 Vox Extended Loop Tape Echo Resent-Message-ID: <"nV8_33.0.OI4.-LYnr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/893 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I just saw this posted on Harmony Central. Too many dollars for my budget, but I was wondering if any one out there had any experience witht his unti? Patrick >1963-4 Vox Extended Loop Tape Echo > >Asking Price: US$1250 >Condition: Mint >Production Year: 19634 >Description: > > Very versatile echo unit! Three inputs and level controls. Just >tuned up. Four > echo setting: Reverb, Repeat, Halo, and Echo. All can be used at >once or any > combination. Excellent condition! VERY RARE! > $1250 > >Seller: Malden M., >E-mail: wooda@pacbell.net >Post Date: 8/1/98 From ???@??? Mon Aug 03 10:16:50 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA25101; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 11:37:31 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 11:37:31 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980803153112.006ef5b8@mail.dada.it> X-Sender: cavallo@mail.dada.it X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 17:31:12 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Leonardo Cavallo Subject: Re: Software Synthesizer Resent-Message-ID: <"nwk193.0.to5.kXTnr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/888 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 09.15 03/08/98 -0400, you wrote: >Craig Anderton wrote about this software synthesizer in the September 1998 >issue of Keyboard. > >I downloaded it and, although it took me a while to get a sound out of it, I >was very impressed. It reminded me of when I bought my Arp 2600 in 1978. >(At first, I couldn't figure out how to turn it on, and later, I couldn't >figure out how to stop it from playing.) > >Lots of neat drones. > >Here are the URLs: > >http://www.harmony-central.com/Software/Windows/orangator.html >http://www.t-rex.org/orangator/ > >Mark Kata >Mark@asisoftware.com > > yeah, I got it and it's brilliant ciao leo From ???@??? Mon Aug 03 10:16:57 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA29692; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 11:48:15 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 11:48:15 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199808031544.AAA27124@pop1.ngy.3web.ne.jp> X-Mailer: Macintosh Eudora Pro Version 3.1.1-J In-Reply-To: <46ace561.35c4fd86@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 00:41:18 +0900 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Sunao Inami Subject: Loopers in London Resent-Message-ID: <"eCTk01.0.uz6.HiTnr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/889 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hi Loopers, I will visit to London 12th -19th Aug. I would like to meet LD list friends. if you have a interest for me then please mail me! Regards Sunao Inami E-mail cave@osk.3web.ne.jp URL"cave home" http://www.threeweb.ad.jp/~cave/ tel&fax "CAVE Studio" +81 794 89 5025 Hyogo,Japan tel&fax "Private" +81 794 89 5015 Hyogo,Japan snail mail address 316 Ohshima Kuchiyokawa Miki City Hyogo Japan 6730755 From ???@??? Mon Aug 03 22:25:37 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id WAA27533; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 22:26:13 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 22:26:13 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 20:49:02 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: Re: Loop Doctors ask...where is CD? Resent-Message-ID: <"kab1w3.0._T6.w1dnr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/897 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com The Loop Doctor's Said: >>Anybody seen Matt around these parts? What's the status of the 2nd >>LooperDelight cd? > and Matt replied: >I'm waiting for the artwork to arrive and then it all goes to the >manufacturer. Hopefully this will happen soon (I've learned my >lesson....I'm never quoting specific dates anymore). > >Matt > Ah yes...the artwork...FingerPaint waited forever for the artwork...what is it about those "artiste" types.... I should have looped the " I'm goin' to have it done by the end of this weeek" refrain....... Patrick From ???@??? Mon Aug 03 17:35:51 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA18243; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 15:20:27 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 15:20:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35C60DC3.28D435D3@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 12:21:47 -0700 From: lance glover Reply-To: baumhaus@earthlink.net Organization: treehouse X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Japanese art tea. Last comments. References: <35C20F6D.FA768309@earthlink.net> <35C2B0E3.E3F81C1@mailbox.syr.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"GdyLu.0.t94.boWnr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/890 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com mark sottilaro wrote: > Good night folks, you can get the rest at your local library... (and I suggest > you do.) Thanks, but with your astute and enlightening analysis, I think the library won't be necessary. -Lance G. P. S. I won't be responding to this thread publicly, as I agree it departs rather pointedly from the objectives of the list, but I assure Mark his statements will be answered personally just as soon as I find the stomach for it. From ???@??? Mon Aug 03 17:35:55 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA25235; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 15:39:38 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 15:39:38 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 12:38:58 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: new way of using samples in live performance Resent-Message-ID: <"PwWc93.0.Ns5.S4Xnr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/891 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 9:00 AM 8/3/98, Sean O'Donnell wrote: >I would also like to know what you are doing with the PC1600 and your >E-MU. I use my PC1600 to control an Ensoniq ASR-10, JamMan, and Alesis >Quadraverb Plus. So far, I've been using it in studio recording moreso >than live performances. My setup: I've assigned the buttons on the >PC1600 to activate the various tap and fade functions of the JamMan. It >expands the JamMan interface by assigning a button to each function, >e.g. layer, replace, mute, and fade. So, the really nice thing is that I >don't have to switch modes on the fly if I want to layer then replace >then mute. It is a simple yet great enhancement to my JamMan setup. >Meanwhile, the faders are assigned to the Alesis Quadraverb which allows >up to eight continuous controllers. I use this setup to create bizarro >loops which I will sometimes feed into my ASR-10 for additional >tweeking. > >Anyone else using the PC-1600 out there? > I use a PC-1600 to control an LXP-5 and JamMan in a way similar to what you describe, buttons controlling the JamMan, sliders controlling the LXP, makes for a pretty cool looping system. Also, I use the PC to program a DX-7, Yamaha VL-70 and a Sequential 6-Trak in real time, either via system exclusive or continous controllers. The PC is a very handy piece of gear. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ "...there will come a day when you won't have to use gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." -Sun Ra ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Mon Aug 03 17:36:27 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA21734; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:20:18 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:20:18 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <98Aug3.161001cdt.26896@gateway.gibson.com> From: Dino Cattaneo To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: RE: Echoplex in Belgium? 2nd try Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 16:14:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"6xosf3.0.A-4.dYYnr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/894 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com To people who have questions about the Echoplex, here is the story. We are shipping the Echoplex from Nashville to many US dealers. We shipped 50 units on Friday alone! The unit is not yet CE approved and so is not being shipped to the EEC. We have quite few dealers in Canada but regularly ship to Long and McQuade up there. We expect to have CE approval by the end of September. Our largest dealers are Musicians Friend out of Seattle, Bananas at Large out of San Francisco, Thoroughbred Music out of Florida and Sam Ash out of New York. As of Friday we have no unfulfilled backorders in our system for Echoplexes. We are ramping up production but I must stress the fact that we have no unfulfilled orders in our system. If you need to get in touch with Oberheim, contact us at our customer service address: obie@gibson.com This is the Oberheim Customer Support e-mail. or from the US call toll free at (877) OBERHEIM -----Original Message----- From: Serge Devadder [mailto:serge.devadder@planetinternet.be] Sent: Saturday, August 01, 1998 12:31 PM To: 'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com' Subject: Echoplex in Belgium? 2nd try Hello loopers, Since I didn t find my mail in the digest, I post it a second time with some additions: After reading about the Echoplex in the Looper's pages, I really wanted such a thing. But after a few weeks hunting in Belgian music-shops around Brussels and Antwerp, I have come to believe the EDP is like the Loch Ness monster: it's picture is on the web, everybody's talking about it, but does it really exist...??? No one sells it. As soon as I mention the word Oberheim, vendors get this worried expression on their face. Many complain about Oberheim service and refuse to list the stuff. Like Claude Lassonde in Montreal, I was told the story that Oberheim no longer lists the EDP. Moreover Oberheim seems to have a peculiar idea of customer service. None of my mails get answered, and the Echoplex-page is indeed still on the Gibson website. I do not know of many succesful companies that ignore requests saying "I like your product! I want it! I need it! Please, please sell it to me!". Those that do so, end up in Dilbert cartoons. In any case I am surprised at how few looping devices are available. With all those experimental musicians outthere who worship Fripp, how come you need to kill for a JamMan or EDP? Not everyone can afford a TC Electronics box, and judging by the stories I hear, even the smallest shops get 2-3 requests for looping devices every week. There's a market out there but nobody seems to want it... Since I first tried to post this last week, I've seen that even in sunny California finding an EDP is not a sinecure. Does any European looper know of a distributor for the EDP in a city near Brussels (Paris? Amsterdam? Cologne? London?...). Thanks! Serge Devadder Brussel, Belgium serge.devadder@planetinternet.be From ???@??? Mon Aug 03 17:36:40 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id SAA07126; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 18:11:39 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 18:11:39 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: "Collins" To: Subject: Re: i shouldn't be on this list Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 18:04:33 -0400 Message-ID: <01bdbf2a$b2382ec0$1c1cbfa8@0QHC6SIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"p0n5M.0.vI1.HHZnr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/895 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Learn how to use your brain, and you might figure it out. -----Original Message----- From: Bob Cowan To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Monday, August 03, 1998 4:37 PM Subject: i shouldn't be on this list PLEASE drop my address from this list From ???@??? Mon Aug 03 17:36:14 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA13786; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 16:38:33 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 16:38:33 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199808032032.QAA11379@rosy.yourwebhost.com> From: BCOWAN@cowanbol.usa.com (Bob Cowan) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: i shouldn't be on this list Date: Mon, 03 Aug 98 16:06:00 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: LANsoft Interhub (http://www.lansoft.com) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-description: Message Body Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-HOP-COUNT: 1 Sender: BCOWAN@cowanbol.usa.com Resent-Message-ID: <"DfJzT2.0.Oo2.TvXnr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/892 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com PLEASE drop my address from this list From ???@??? Mon Aug 03 18:43:56 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id VAB04361; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 21:16:34 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 21:16:34 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199808040112.SAA00821@stork.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 18:16:48 -0700 Subject: Re: Loop Doctors ask...where is CD? From: "Finley Sound Design" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qxvOg.0.Ho.K0cnr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/896 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >Anybody seen Matt around these parts? What's the status of the 2nd >LooperDelight cd? I'm waiting for the artwork to arrive and then it all goes to the manufacturer. Hopefully this will happen soon (I've learned my lesson....I'm never quoting specific dates anymore). Matt __________________________________ Matthew F. McCabe Finley Sound Design http://www.finleysound.com From ???@??? Mon Aug 03 22:25:39 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id WAA29244; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 22:31:25 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 22:31:25 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 19:27:17 -0700 (PDT) From: N To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: i shouldn't be on this list In-Reply-To: <199808032032.QAA11379@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"8ePtH.0.zs6.a6dnr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/898 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Don't add my name to any lists! You unsubscribe by sending a message with "unsubscribe" spelled correctly in e subject and first lines. N On Mon, 3 Aug 1998, Bob Cowan wrote: > PLEASE drop my address from this list > > > > From ???@??? Tue Aug 04 09:57:28 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id IAA31882 for kflint@annihilist.com; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 08:37:51 -0400 Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 08:37:51 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-From_: BCOWAN@cowanbol.usa.com Tue Aug 4 08:37:42 1998 Received: from mork.lansoft.net (mork.lansoft.net [206.101.106.242]) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) with ESMTP id IAA31810 for ; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 08:37:42 -0400 Message-Id: <199808041237.IAA31810@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Received: from reliant.lansoft.net ([206.101.106.11]) by exidor.lansoft.net with SMTP id 00520378; Tue, 04 Aug 1998 08:40:57 Eastern Daylight Time From: BCOWAN@cowanbol.usa.com (Bob Cowan), mail@interhub.com (N) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: i shouldn't be on this list, Re: i shouldn't be on this list Old-Date: Tue, 04 Aug 98 08:23:00 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: LANsoft Interhub (http://www.lansoft.com) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-description: Message Body Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-HOP-COUNT: 1 Sender: BCOWAN@cowanbol.usa.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Envelope-To: Loopers-Delight ======== Original Message ======== Don't add my name to any lists! You unsubscribe by sending a message with "unsubscribe" spelled correctly in e subject and first lines. N On Mon, 3 Aug 1998, Bob Cowan wrote: > PLEASE drop my address from this list > > > > ======== Fwd by: Bob Cowan ======== thank you From ???@??? Tue Aug 04 09:57:29 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id IAA31943 for kflint@annihilist.com; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 08:37:58 -0400 Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 08:37:58 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-From_: BCOWAN@cowanbol.usa.com Tue Aug 4 08:37:40 1998 Received: from mork.lansoft.net (mork.lansoft.net [206.101.106.242]) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) with ESMTP id IAA31796 for ; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 08:37:40 -0400 Old-Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 08:37:40 -0400 Message-Id: <199808041237.IAA31796@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Received: from reliant.lansoft.net ([206.101.106.11]) by exidor.lansoft.net with SMTP id 00520373; Tue, 04 Aug 1998 08:40:55 Eastern Daylight Time From: BCOWAN@cowanbol.usa.com (Bob Cowan), mail@interhub.com (Patrick Smith) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: fwd: 1963-4 Vox Extended Loop Tape Echo, X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Envelope-To: Loopers-Delight 1963-4 Vox Extended Loop Tape Echo Date: Tue, 04 Aug 98 08:23:00 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: LANsoft Interhub (http://www.lansoft.com) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-description: Message Body Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-HOP-COUNT: 1 Sender: BCOWAN@cowanbol.usa.com ======== Original Message ======== I just saw this posted on Harmony Central. Too many dollars for my budget, but I was wondering if any one out there had any experience witht his unti? Patrick >1963-4 Vox Extended Loop Tape Echo > >Asking Price: US$1250 >Condition: Mint >Production Year: 19634 >Description: > > Very versatile echo unit! Three inputs and level controls. Just >tuned up. Four > echo setting: Reverb, Repeat, Halo, and Echo. All can be used at >once or any > combination. Excellent condition! VERY RARE! > $1250 > >Seller: Malden M., >E-mail: wooda@pacbell.net >Post Date: 8/1/98 ======== Fwd by: Bob Cowan ======== unsubscribe From ???@??? Tue Aug 04 09:57:57 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA08316; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 12:23:30 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 12:23:30 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35C746A6.2E395C8@mailbox.syr.edu> Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 12:36:37 -0500 From: mark sottilaro Reply-To: msottila@mailbox.syr.edu Organization: metaliminal X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: baumhaus@earthlink.net, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Live fish. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <35C20F6D.FA768309@earthlink.net> <35C2B0E3.E3F81C1@mailbox.syr.edu> <35C60DC3.28D435D3@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"yRFlJ2.0.3h1.cHpnr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/899 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com mark sottilaro wrote: > Good night folks, you can get the rest at your local library... (and I suggest > you do.) Which caused Lance to write: >Thanks, but with your astute and enlightening analysis, I think the library won't be >necessary. >-Lance G. >P. S. I won't be responding to this thread publicly, as I agree it departs rather >pointedly from the objectives of the list, but I assure Mark his statements will be >answered personally just as soon as I find the stomach for it. Oh, I'm sorry Lance. I didn't mean to upset your delicate sensibilities and give you a tummy ache. You're so right, we should stop talking about art and get right back to pontificating over gear. I guess I was wrong about words having to have a commonly agreed upon definition. We don't need that. So again I'll apologize. I'm sure your what you do musically is just as interesting and emotional as making a really good french fry. Perhaps Millie Vanillie is looking for studio musicians for their comeback album. You may want to audition for the project. Have a nice day. Mark Sottilaro P.S. I'm currently defining "nice" as putting a live fish in your mouth and trying to kill it with a shotgun. From ???@??? Tue Aug 04 20:07:48 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id VAA31547; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 21:53:38 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 21:53:38 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35C7BA6C.3CCF78D@musician.org> Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 18:50:40 -0700 From: eric potter Reply-To: eric@musician.org Organization: Hog Wild Music and Sound FX X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sodonne@vm.temple.edu, "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: new way of using samples in live performance References: <01b901bdbcd1$6d810280$4a419ad1@default> <35C5B470.7EEC8954@vm.temple.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6TNFP3.0.MQ7.Eexnr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/900 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > My setup: I've assigned the buttons on the > PC1600 to activate the various tap and fade functions of the JamMan. It > expands the JamMan interface by assigning a button to each function, > e.g. layer, replace, mute, and fade. What Fade function on the JamMan you talkin 'bout? Have I missed something? -eric From ???@??? Wed Aug 05 11:26:27 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA30656; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 13:41:24 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 13:41:24 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 11:29:22 +0400 Message-ID: <000151F0.4007@poyry.com.br> From: miguel.barella@poyry.com.br (MAT) Subject: Re:KOAN To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"oeYWP3.0.l97.MT9or"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/906 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I tried it 2 years ago but was not able to get good results. Miguel ____________________Separador de Resposta____________________ Assunto: KOAN Autor: David Kirkdorffer Data: 05/08/1998 10:03 Is anyone using KOAN yet? David Kirkdorffer From ???@??? Wed Aug 05 10:11:32 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id IAA23937; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 08:54:32 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 08:54:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35C854E9.4B6AA46@vm.temple.edu> Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 08:49:45 -0400 From: "Sean O'Donnell" Reply-To: sodonne@vm.temple.edu Organization: Temple University Center for Research in Human Development and Education X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: eric@musician.org CC: "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: new way of using samples in live performance References: <01b901bdbcd1$6d810280$4a419ad1@default> <35C5B470.7EEC8954@vm.temple.edu> <35C7BA6C.3CCF78D@musician.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ybKXq.0.PZ5._J5or"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/901 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Short, medium, and long volume fades can be created by sending MIDI program changes 9, 10, and 11 to JamMan from an external MIDI controller (in my case that would be the amazing Peavey PC-1600x). I also use the PC-1600x to cue the JamMan loops much like one of those new fangled phrase samplers. This is where the PC-1600x _greatly_ expands the possibilities of the J-Man, IMHO. See pages 26-27 of the JamMan Manual at: . It has the MIDI implementation chart that shows all of these nice goodies that are locked up inside. Sean eric potter wrote: > > > My setup: I've assigned the buttons on the > > PC1600 to activate the various tap and fade functions of the JamMan. It > > expands the JamMan interface by assigning a button to each function, > > e.g. layer, replace, mute, and fade. > > What Fade function on the JamMan you talkin 'bout? Have I missed something? > > -eric From ???@??? Wed Aug 05 10:11:54 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id KAA13582; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 10:09:53 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 10:09:53 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: From: David Kirkdorffer To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: KOAN Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 10:03:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"A95lB2.0.F33.KR6or"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/902 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Is anyone using KOAN yet? David Kirkdorffer From ???@??? Wed Aug 05 10:12:17 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA05755; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 11:45:27 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 11:45:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199808051532.IAA22634@scv1.apple.com> Subject: A Way With Words Date: Wed, 5 Aug 98 10:34:06 -0600 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"7weQ7.0.721.sp7or"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/903 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >Have a nice day. >Mark Sottilaro >P.S. I'm currently defining "nice" as putting a live fish in your mouth and >trying to kill it with a shotgun. Geez. Couldn't we go back to a more cordial topic, like why guitar is better than keyboards? Travis From ???@??? Wed Aug 05 11:26:29 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA30787; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 13:42:03 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 13:42:03 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980805172927.006ec208@mail.dada.it> X-Sender: cavallo@mail.dada.it X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 19:29:27 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Leonardo Cavallo Subject: Re: KOAN Resent-Message-ID: <"1uaRR1.0.DA7.TT9or"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/907 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 10.03 05/08/98 -0400, you wrote: >Is anyone using KOAN yet? > >David Kirkdorffer > > I downloaded the demo version some months ago and it was incredible. I have no MIDI sound modules (only soundofnts from my AWE 64 GOld ) but it was exciting to direct computer improvisations. It's quite complex and you have to spend some time for understanding hundreds of parameters but it's a real instrument to play with... I know there are new CDs of Koan drum&bass templates. ciao leo From ???@??? Wed Aug 05 11:26:32 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA31248; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 13:44:33 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 13:44:33 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 11:34:00 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199808051734.LAA03228@mars.aros.net> X-Sender: pvcontor@mail.aros.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Patrick Contor Subject: Re: KOAN Resent-Message-ID: <"000Tj1.0.fI7.MW9or"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/908 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Only the Zen version At 10:03 AM 8/5/98 -0400, you wrote: >Is anyone using KOAN yet? > >David Kirkdorffer > > From ???@??? Wed Aug 05 11:26:34 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA32099; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 13:49:27 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 13:49:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <19980805174415.9266.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [204.74.108.99] From: "Joseph Buck" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: KOAN Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 10:44:15 PDT Resent-Message-ID: <"ulGQX3.0.Vg7.Ye9or"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/909 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hola Groovers- >Is anyone using KOAN yet? I am sorta by proxy..... I am doing a thing with Tom Boon who writes exclusively with/for Koan... I am looping/playing over/ and adding some text stuff...... It is really an amazing program. Has a mind of its own at times... You can download demo version of Koan at I believe at http://www.sseyo.com . selam, Buck ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Wed Aug 05 11:26:38 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA02746; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 14:03:38 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 14:03:38 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199808051757.KAA01749@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Studio By Day... To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 10:57:08 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: from "Douglas Tapia" at Aug 5, 98 11:17:49 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LAmYq3.0.P9.6q9or"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/911 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > I'll point you to Thomas Roady's excellent comments. Like Thomas, I have no > problem playing and producing pop tunes by day and playing "avant-guarde" > free jazz by night. Additionally, I would suggest that most of the people > who make such comments about "soulless studio musicians" have no idea what > is involved in being a good studio musician. You can't look at guys like Funny that we were just talking on the Stick list about Pete Cosey. He's done studio sessions for blues and R&B artists. Yet at the same time he made those devastating albums with Miles Davis (Pangaea, Agharta, etc.) and went on to replace Bill Frisell in Power Tools, among other things. He even joined Chicago's AACM (Association for the Advancement of Creative Musicians). Cheers, Paolo From ???@??? Wed Aug 05 11:26:41 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA10373; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 14:26:26 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 14:26:26 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <98Aug5.131246cdt.26885@gateway.gibson.com> From: Dino Cattaneo To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: echoplex > thanks! Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 13:17:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"fTvm7.0.T_1.b8Aor"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/914 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Thanks for the message. Believe me, we can't wait to get the Echoplex to Europe, and as soon as it's available we will let you all know. Dino -----Original Message----- From: Serge Devadder [mailto:serge.devadder@planetinternet.be] Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 1998 5:08 PM To: 'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com' Cc: 'DCattane@gibson.com' Subject: echoplex > thanks! Many thanks to all the loopers and to Dino @ Gibson for clearing the situation on the Echoplex in Europe. I think it's great (actually necessary) that authorities protect the customers by issuing strict security regulations on electric devices. But the CE-approval is blocking many unique or rare instruments from entering the European market. I guess the US and Japan do the same with our European stuff. I work for a large chemical corporation and we often have problems supplying scientific equipment to European researchers in academia & industry because of this CE-label bs... It's easy to regain the cost of CE-approval if you sell 10.000 fridges or TV-sets; but for a couple of hundred FX-boxes, hmmm... Anyway, I whish Oberheim good luck, and I will be among their first EDP European customers. I would just suggest that Dino drops a post to the LoopersDelight-list when the Echoplex becomes available overhere, and will also tell us who distributes it in each European country. Hopefully his post will come in september! bye, Serge Devadder. From ???@??? Wed Aug 05 11:26:23 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA27595; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 13:22:36 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 13:22:36 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 11:17:49 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: dtapia@unoco.edu (Douglas Tapia) Subject: Re: Live fish. Resent-Message-ID: <"dC7X33.0.Sb6.PF9or"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/905 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com What happened to our good natured little chat here? >mark sottilaro wrote: > >> Good night folks, you can get the rest at your local library... (and I >>suggest >> you do.) > >Which caused Lance to write: > >>Thanks, but with your astute and enlightening analysis, I think the library >won't be >>necessary. > >>-Lance G. > >>P. S. I won't be responding to this thread publicly, as I agree it >>departs rather >>pointedly from the objectives of the list, but I assure Mark his statements >will be >>answered personally just as soon as I find the stomach for it. > >Oh, I'm sorry Lance. I didn't mean to upset your delicate sensibilities and >give you a tummy ache. You're so right, we should stop talking about art and >get right back to pontificating over gear. I guess I was wrong about words >having to have a commonly agreed upon definition. We don't need that. Are you truly pontificating the nature of art here, or rather, are you attacking everybody PERSONALY who doesn't share your view. I would love to discuss Art here, but it seems that there are enough idiots on this list that every time someone express an opinion that strays from the norm by even the slightest bit, they get flamed. So what does that leave us with? A safe discussion about the pros and cons of this tool or that. It is a shame, but thankfully, I can satisfy my own need to create Art AND support my family without the need for the aproval of anyone on this list. (This is why I also avoided fully the whole issue of "fair" CD prices and the idea of "musical commerce" >So again I'll apologize. I'm sure your what you do musically is just as >interesting and emotional as making a really good french fry. Perhaps Millie >Vanillie is looking for studio musicians for their comeback album. You may >want to audition for the project. This hits me where I eat, but rather than getting too bent out of shape, I'll point you to Thomas Roady's excellent comments. Like Thomas, I have no problem playing and producing pop tunes by day and playing "avant-guarde" free jazz by night. Additionally, I would suggest that most of the people who make such comments about "soulless studio musicians" have no idea what is involved in being a good studio musician. You can't look at guys like Jim Keltner or Oliver Gene Lake or any number of other great musicians and say that there is no more interest in their music than a good french fry. Good studio musicians can make great music (Art) REGARDLESS of the context. I don't consider this selling out, after all, I get to do what I love--play music--for a living. If I had to put a tie on to go to work pushing pencils every day, for me, that would be selling out. (I play with great musicians who have "real" day jobs, and I'm not bagging on them, I just couldn't do it.) >Have a nice day. > >Mark Sottilaro > >P.S. I'm currently defining "nice" as putting a live fish in your mouth and >trying to kill it with a shotgun. This is wholely inappropriate. If you are really this angry at the world, I would suggest a change of vocation and/or a change of hobbies. I'm passionate about art too, but this little "joke" is out of line. Perhaps a society gig every now and then might be able to finance some therapy. -Doug From ???@??? Wed Aug 05 22:51:35 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA20905; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 15:31:22 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 15:31:22 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 12:25:58 -0700 (PDT) From: N To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: No personal attacks please! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"TBuC_1.0.Ls4.O7Bor"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/915 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com A) What's wrong with pontificating over gear. Haven't we been doing it since the day after birthdays-Xmas-Hannuka-et al forever now? B) I'm a studio musician too, though I've got nothing against playing behind Milli or Vanilli. I suggest the writer misses the subtle sublimity of the act. Anyhow, I've just moved from SF to NY and looking for work. (You can use Kim Flint as my reference.) N On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, THOMAS W ROADY wrote: > Pontificating over gear! Give mne a break! Some people have their heads up > their you know whats. While there they should take a big whiff of their own > personal rose garden. I hope this is definition enough. > > > >So again I'll apologize. I'm sure your what you do musically is just as > >interesting and emotional as making a really good french fry. Perhaps Millie > >Vanillie is looking for studio musicians for their comeback album. You may > >want to audition for the project > > I am a studio musician and boy do I take offense at this remark. So what > makes you think of studio musicians in such low regard? Because we can and > do make are living playing music, even if it is other people's > compositions. I still enjoy and make the time to work on my own writing and > music which is every bit as interesting and emotional and valid as your > own. From ???@??? Wed Aug 05 22:51:38 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA22466; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 15:41:46 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 15:41:46 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 12:37:54 -0700 (PDT) From: N To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: No personal attacks please! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"NGGoy2.0.gM5.jIBor"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/916 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Oh yes, I play bass. N On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, N wrote: > > A) What's wrong with pontificating over gear. Haven't we been doing it > since the day after birthdays-Xmas-Hannuka-et al forever now? > > B) I'm a studio musician too, though I've got nothing against playing > behind Milli or Vanilli. I suggest the writer misses the subtle sublimity > of the act. > > Anyhow, I've just moved from SF to NY and looking for work. (You can use > Kim Flint as my reference.) > > N > > On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, THOMAS W ROADY wrote: > > > Pontificating over gear! Give mne a break! Some people have their heads up > > their you know whats. While there they should take a big whiff of their own > > personal rose garden. I hope this is definition enough. > > > > > >So again I'll apologize. I'm sure your what you do musically is just as > > >interesting and emotional as making a really good french fry. Perhaps Millie > > >Vanillie is looking for studio musicians for their comeback album. You may > > >want to audition for the project > > > > I am a studio musician and boy do I take offense at this remark. So what > > makes you think of studio musicians in such low regard? Because we can and > > do make are living playing music, even if it is other people's > > compositions. I still enjoy and make the time to work on my own writing and > > music which is every bit as interesting and emotional and valid as your > > own. > > From ???@??? Wed Aug 05 11:26:40 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA07856; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 14:18:27 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 14:18:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <01BDC0AD.649985E0@ubnd-90.pop-brussel2.planetinternet.be> From: Serge Devadder To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Cc: "'DCattane@gibson.com'" Subject: echoplex > thanks! Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 20:08:01 +-200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"zNoHF2.0._U1.a2Aor"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/912 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Many thanks to all the loopers and to Dino @ Gibson for clearing the situation on the Echoplex in Europe. I think it's great (actually necessary) that authorities protect the customers by issuing strict security regulations on electric devices. But the CE-approval is blocking many unique or rare instruments from entering the European market. I guess the US and Japan do the same with our European stuff. I work for a large chemical corporation and we often have problems supplying scientific equipment to European researchers in academia & industry because of this CE-label bs... It's easy to regain the cost of CE-approval if you sell 10.000 fridges or TV-sets; but for a couple of hundred FX-boxes, hmmm... Anyway, I whish Oberheim good luck, and I will be among their first EDP European customers. I would just suggest that Dino drops a post to the LoopersDelight-list when the Echoplex becomes available overhere, and will also tell us who distributes it in each European country. Hopefully his post will come in september! bye, Serge Devadder. From ???@??? Wed Aug 05 22:51:58 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id VAA32075; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 21:03:48 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 21:03:48 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: mchriste@panther.middlebury.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 15:55:29 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: murkie Subject: Re: new way of using samples in live performance Resent-Message-ID: <"OXj_Z.0.qi7.8_For"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/918 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >>Anyone else using the PC-1600 out there? sorry. i came to this thread late and half awake... (new baby in the house and all...). dumb question: what's a pc-1600? thanks for any insight! m M a r k C h r i s t e n s e n Cramped Quarters Studio / Jasperpottamus Music i n t e r n e t : murkie@middlebury.edu http://www.middlebury.edu/~mchriste/murkie.html From ???@??? Wed Aug 05 22:51:54 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id SAA16061; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 18:27:35 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 18:27:35 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: klaw@iglou.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: new way of using samples in live performance Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 18:21:59 -0400 Resent-Message-ID: <"Nc8dY2.0.ZS3.TiDor"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/917 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >> Bill Cummings wrote: >> >> I ve also >> >developed a new way of using samples in live performance.Rather than >> using >> >a sequencer ,I am programming varios control schemes using EMU E6400& >> >pc1600 great results last gig!Im blessed to live in a >> city(Louisville) >> >with so many creatiive >> and responsive people.Glad to see more activity on this list! K LAW >> >> Could you provide more details on how you're using samples in live >> performance. I'm wondering about the pc1600, and would like to learn >> more. >> Bill Cummings >> drums@myself.com >Hello sorry I took so long to respond,be happy to answer yuour >qustions.Ive set up all possible controllers on the EMU to target various >parameters that will dramatically affect the samples& assigned them to >either a fader or pedal(usually to crossfade).If youre familar with the >architecture of the 6400 I use midi con A-H to change ptch smple start >sample loop(very small sweeping thru sample)etc. Ive also assigned all >the clock divisors to sum module and can control amount of witch clock mod >goes to the current sample.IF you tag pitch (or sample retrigger)for >example with 3 or 4 different clk mods it takes on a really cool rythmic >cyclic quality that can be tempo controlled using external midi clock >output.When Ive got a scheme( cords matrix) set up I relly like Ill copy >the voices multiple times and use different samples so I t maintains >cohesion but I have differnt materials >I can start modifying cord amounts >& further extend this permutationn process.The short (&long) of it - with >this set up Im able to use a short set of samples & process them >differently to get very dissamliar results.Live Ill switch the samples in >the voices menu & the sound relly flows in a contigous way.I just finished >a piece last night which has morphed into a sort of junkyard Dreyblatt >minimalist thing.This sampler allows (for the patient) the ability to come >up with things that constantly surprise me. I love the openess of it & I >hope they will continue to improve upon it.BTW thers minimal documetation >from EMU on this cords matrix they say it is forthcoming. Again on the Pc 1600( I dont have the x upgrade) it is the best midi control box out there . You cant go wrong. thanks KLAW From ???@??? Wed Aug 05 22:52:03 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id WAA06647; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 22:14:00 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 22:14:00 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Javier Miranda V." To: Subject: RE: No personal attacks please! Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 19:11:25 -0700 Message-ID: <002e01bdc0df$83cc82a0$731a8ed1@electra> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: Resent-Message-ID: <"C_VKl.0.qV1.62Hor"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/919 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Yeah, me too, I play bass. | -----Original Message----- | From: N [mailto:ntrembat@OCF.Berkeley.EDU] | Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 1998 12:38 PM | To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com | Subject: Re: No personal attacks please! | | | | Oh yes, I play bass. | | N | | | On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, N wrote: From ???@??? Wed Aug 05 22:52:44 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id BAB20368; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 01:08:24 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 01:08:24 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: The Unit Circle Message-Id: <199808060500.BAA02709@keys.com> Subject: Re: average loop music CD price To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 01:00:51 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <2C396693FBDED111AEF60000F84104A71A6390@indyexch_fddi.indy.tce.com> from "Hoover Alan" at Jul 30, 98 10:02:37 am Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"JFRZE1.0.Ue4.XZJor"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/920 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > I think you are right about the competition part. I was playing devil's > advocate just to illustrate the additional costs involved in bringing a > product to market. (Also, my numbers were wrong due to a typo. I meant to > add $1 for studio time, mastering, not $2, making the total original cost > $3. Actually, to this must be added overhead, advertising, etc.) > $1 for studio time and mastering? Maybe if you do the recording yourself and do the mastering proffesionally? With a $2 manufacturing cost, you could only be doing 1000 CDs (I'm also assuming that you are including design and film in that because $2000 is very high for 1000 CDs). I've seen a CD recorded for less than $1000, but not in a studio. The cheapest budget for a studio doing a full-length CD was $1500 (and it sounded like it had been done on the cheap). A more reasonable studio budget would be around $2000. Add another $500 for mastering. Now your cost is $4.50 per disc. Now lets say you do a 1/4 page ad in Alternative Press for your disc, add another $400. Now lets say you send some of those CDs out to magazines and radio stations which reduces the number of CDs you can sell (raising the cost of each CD). Unit Circle Rekkids (my label), ends up selling CDs to distributors for a small percentage above cost. Most of the actual profit comes from our mail order sales (where we only make $1-$2 per disc anyway after postage). The major labels spend much less per CD than anyone else, but there still isn't an amazing amount of profit per unit their either (especially if you factor in salaries). > In the case of CD's vs. vinyl, the cost of CD's has stayed way up while the > cost of producing them has gone way down. Record companies certainly own > monopolies on particular performers. An individual can record a CD and > market him/herself, and keep the price down. But individuals don't have > ready access to the market machine like record companies do. Record > companies pay a high price to gain this access, which is a significant part > of their cost. They get a following for their product, and are able to sell > it at whatever the market will pay. There is probably a certain amount of > "price-fixing", too. I think that the many "mini-monopolies" is the key. > This is a good point. You could probably make more money on your music if you sell and market it yourself, but you'll also sell many fewer. I can count the successful self marketers on one hand. > The system works, basically. You don't have to pay $17 for a CD. You don't > have to pay $100+ for a Bulls ticket, either. > With indie labels, you don't have to pay $17 for a CD, most sell theirs direct for under $15, including postage. Kevin Unit Circle From ???@??? Thu Aug 06 09:21:55 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA12730; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 11:23:16 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 11:23:16 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199808061519.IAA16440@raven.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Subject: Studio Musicians Soulful? And No Mac Koan. Date: Thu, 6 Aug 98 10:21:03 +0100 x-sender: tiktok@pop.a001.sprintmail.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Tiktok Mobile HQ To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"PsL_K2.0.s-2.AcSor"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/923 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >Additionally, I would suggest that most of the people >who make such comments about "soulless studio musicians" have no idea what >is involved in being a good studio musician. Of course, the possibility also exists that good studio musicians have no idea what is involved in having a soul... :-) >Is anyone using KOAN yet? >David Kirkdorffer I also downloaded the demo of Koan onto a Windows machine (since it doesn't run for a Mac, and I don't think they have any plans on writing a Mac version, and I have only Mac's), and it was intriguing enough to make me toy with the idea of buying a Windows machine. I can see why Eno is such a fan. Travis From ???@??? Thu Aug 06 09:21:41 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id JAA29361; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 09:41:50 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 09:41:50 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Edward_Chang@mail.amsinc.com X-Lotus-FromDomain: AMSINC To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Message-ID: <85256658.004AA6FE.00@ams-central-gate-5a.amsinc.com> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 09:38:28 -0400 Subject: RE: One-of-a-Kind Musik Artifakts Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"3YDIV1.0.s27.P6Ror"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/921 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hey Steuart Just a quick note to tell you I got your tape and liked it, thanks! I would've written sooner, but I just got a new position at my job (systems manager) and am swamped! But anyways, it would be interesting to play together one day. What's a contrbass guitar? Anyway thanks this has been a good experience for me as well. I have to revise my general opinion of the Loopers Delight archetype ;) ! Ed "Liebig, Steuart A." on 07/24/98 04:05:50 PM Please respond to Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" cc: (bcc: Edward Chang/AMS/AMSINC) Subject: RE: One-of-a-Kind Musik Artifakts Hi Ed, Well, at long last I'm sending you (today) my tape/part of the bargain . . . sorry that it's taken so damn long. I've had your tape for a while, but had decided not to listen to it until after I had made mine . . . so I've listened to it a couple of times now. I think that it's quite good. I sent a letter with the tape and have tried to say a little more than "I think it's good" in the letter. Maybe, after you listen to mine, we can have a little "meaningful" dialogue on merits, intents, etc. Thanks for thinking this up. It's been really a good thing for me to do (more in the letter about that too). steuart From ???@??? Thu Aug 06 09:21:44 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id JAA29961; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 09:46:00 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 09:46:00 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Edward_Chang@mail.amsinc.com X-Lotus-FromDomain: AMSINC To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Message-ID: <85256658.004B5C08.00@ams-central-gate-5a.amsinc.com> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 09:43:20 -0400 Subject: RE: One-of-a-Kind Musik Artifakts Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"NIol61.0.QC7.sARor"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/922 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Doh! From ???@??? Thu Aug 06 10:10:44 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA22430; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 12:39:35 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 12:39:35 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 09:35:20 -0700 (PDT) From: N To: "Looper's Delight" Subject: Re: Studio Musicians Soulful? And No Mac Koan. In-Reply-To: <199808061519.IAA16440@raven.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"4Cupo.0.BK5.VjTor"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/924 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Who needs a soul when the beat just goes? N On Thu, 6 Aug 1998, Tiktok Mobile HQ wrote: > Of course, the possibility also exists that good studio musicians have no > idea what is involved in having a soul... :-) From ???@??? Fri Aug 07 02:36:09 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id VAA30470; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 21:18:29 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 21:18:29 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35CA1CED.6019F1EF@mailbox.syr.edu> Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 21:15:32 +0000 From: Mark Sottilaro Reply-To: msottila@mailbox.syr.edu Organization: League of cranky old men. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Nice calm, flameless art theory from Mark References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"OGB3L3.0.n_6.EIbor"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/929 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hello all! OK, I'd like to take a little time here to point out that in my first post about "art theory" I described "...the generally accepted contemporary theory of art..." In case anyone hasn't noticed, I didn't formulate this theory. I was merely stating what it was. We can all argue until we're blue in the face, but this will not change the current paradigm... at least not in the short run. I only began lashing out when I was attacked personally, as if I was the person keeping artists in "boxes" by formulating horrible theories and making terrible definitions for words. Do I subscribe to the current (western) theories of art that I spoke of? You bet. Why? It all has to do with VALUE. I'm one of those people that make my living by doing art. Because I do I find it extremely crucial to define what it is that I do because NO ONE WILL PAY FOR SOMETHING UNLESS THEY KNOW WHAT IT IS. Did I cause this cultural phenomena? No. Is it real? Yes. As someone who works for a non-profit organization that receives money from the NEA, I spend a large amount of time defending artists (that I usually have nothing to do with) such as Robert Maplethorpe or Mark Rothko. "A red square isn't art! Anyone could do that! " or "My tax money shouldn't go for that homo crap!" Oh boy, if ignorance is bliss you'd expect these people to be a lot happier! You wouldn't believe how many times I hear stuff like that. About as many times as I have to defend my own minimalist works. "That's not music...it's just a drone." I'm sure we've all heard things like that. The problem with the current "art had no purpose other than to be itself" theory,is not the theory itself, but the fact that art in our culture has been devalued. (unless you happen to be a superstar) I haven't been following the last cd price thread, but haven't we been talking about this? Most club owners seem to feel that playing music is the only reward needed for being a musician, but find absolutely no problem paying to have the floor cleaned. Subsequently, most of us have to struggle at some other type of work to fund the often exorbitant cost of musical instruments and the wacky gear that we all love so much. (I'm saving for a Digitech Space Station as we speak!) This is why I feel that people have reacted so strongly against the theory I've been talking about. Artists want to be regarded as the french fry maker is regarded. By that I mean PAID. Yes, Lance, I listen to Gamalan music all the time (Cornell University has quite the Gamalan set up) and It's very nice that the Balinese people don't have a word for art. I can't say I know anything about their culture, but I'd bet that those who master the art of Gamalan are regarded very highly in their society, and compensated for it in some way. I bet they don't even have to pay to use the PA when they play out. ;-) (sorry, I just can't help being a sarcastic bastard) I'd love for our culture to be like that, but guess what? It's not. We're capitalists and unless we can find ways to fund what we do, we're probably not doing it. I agree that things are pretty sad at the moment. I hope that the free exchange of thoughts via the internet will free us from the shackles of BIG BUSINESS IN THE ART WORLD by allowing us to distribute our stuff by ourselves. Maybe then the myth of the superstar will die and we can be regarded as people who do a specific job in our society, a highly valued job. Ok, I'm rambling, so I'll shut up. Love, Mark (I'm currently defining "love" as a warm squishy feeling towards humanity) From ???@??? Fri Aug 07 02:35:33 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id SAA29764; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 18:10:30 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 18:10:30 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: "Collins" To: Subject: Clips are included Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 18:01:17 -0400 Message-ID: <01bdc185$bc83b040$aa1bbfa8@0QHC6SIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"WDYcp.0.-g6.VWYor"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/925 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hello everyone. I've posted to let one and all know that I've Finally got some audio clips working on my website. At the moment there are only three song clips, one from me, one from Dan Stearns, and one from Ken Rubenstein. I do believe that some of you will enjoy the sounds contained herein. If you do please feel free to write. As soon as a little later tonight I should have more clips put up. Now i should warn you that this is a very basic site, at the moment, but it will be growing. The site is... www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Stadium/1429/STRANGETONES.html Hope you enjoy. Jeff Collins From ???@??? Fri Aug 07 02:35:49 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id UAA04368; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 20:02:34 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 20:02:34 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: "Claude Lassonde" To: "Loopers-Delight" Subject: Echoplex memory Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 19:57:23 -0400 Message-ID: <000001bdc195$f4b173c0$41c8c80a@classonde.psbgm.qc.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"FObGp2.0.xk.0Caor"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/926 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Somebody in the list made some comments about having problem with Echoplex fully loaded in memory. Parity or non-parity chips where the issue. What are the SIMMs good for the Echoplex. Company claims that both are accepted but it seems that problem may be notice when using one or the other... Tried to look in archive but they stop at #30. Regards. _______________________ Claude Lassonde 2325, Keller Saint-Laurent (Quebec) Canada H4K 2G2 Tel : (514)332-0258 Email : classonde@psbgm.qc.ca Web : http://members.tripod.com/~Lassonde From ???@??? Fri Aug 07 02:35:55 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id UAA10747; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 20:21:15 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 20:21:15 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980807001758.00dc44d0@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 17:17:58 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Echoplex memory Resent-Message-ID: <"HB95q3.0.tK2.NUaor"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/927 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com It works with parity or non-parity simms, and it doesn't matter if you mix them or max the memory or whatever. (the parity bit is ignored.) That's in the echoplex FAQ on the LD website. The problems a few people had seemed to be from some bad batch of simms, and nobody has reported anything like it since. In general it's always worked fine with any type simm out there, and there isn't any known problem with fully loaded memory. I've heard that reported a couple times and it always turned out to be something else. (like a bad simm...) kim At 07:57 PM 8/6/98 -0400, Claude Lassonde wrote: >Somebody in the list made some comments about having problem with Echoplex >fully loaded in memory. Parity or non-parity chips where the issue. > >What are the SIMMs good for the Echoplex. Company claims that both are >accepted but it seems that problem may be notice when using one or the >other... > >Tried to look in archive but they stop at #30. > >Regards. > >_______________________ >Claude Lassonde >2325, Keller >Saint-Laurent (Quebec) >Canada H4K 2G2 >Tel : (514)332-0258 >Email : classonde@psbgm.qc.ca >Web : http://members.tripod.com/~Lassonde > > > ________________________________________________________ Kim Flint, MTS 408-752-9284 Chromatic Research kflint@chromatic.com http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Fri Aug 07 02:36:01 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id UAA22317; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 20:54:53 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 20:54:53 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199808070050.RAA09553@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: Processors: TC Electronics G-Force To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 17:50:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <199807311151_MC2-54CA-5B6@compuserve.com> from "Andreas Willers" at Jul 31, 98 11:50:41 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LrDRT.0.-55.Vzaor"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/928 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > 2. the FireWorx is slightly different in that it has some more features a= > nd > sounds geared towards remix situations (e.g. a ringmodulator, a digital > patchpoint freely assignable within your given layout of effects etc.) > while the G-Force is more guitar/bass-oriented (though I wouldn't mind th= > e > ring...). Is the FireWorx a true stereo processor then? I play the Stick, which has stereo pickups. Thanks, Paolo From ???@??? Fri Aug 07 02:36:11 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id VAA31085; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 21:20:19 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 21:20:19 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <003c01bdc1a0$d0f3ab00$0b3c9ad1@default> From: "Bill Cummings" To: Subject: Re: No personal attacks please! Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 21:14:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"b-PqR.0.j87.jJbor"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/930 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > >Oh yes, I play bass. > >N > Hey N, I'm in NY and I play drums (and samples and loops, etc.). Currently working in CT. in a modern rock band (only about 1 gig per month), but I'm always looking to stretch out in other areas, and I do have very broad musical interests (playing almost 30 years). Let me know what your into and if you might be willing to get together and play sometime. Bill Cummings drums@myself.com -----Original Message----- From: N To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Wednesday, August 05, 1998 3:39 PM Subject: Re: No personal attacks please! From ???@??? Fri Aug 07 02:36:19 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id WAA28752; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 22:49:39 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 22:49:39 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Texture444@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 22:44:01 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Studio Musicians Soulful? And No Mac Koan. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 161 Resent-Message-ID: <"BEiA22.0.2f6.Vecor"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/931 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 8/6/98 11:23:11 AM, tiktok@sprintmail.com writes: >Of course, the possibility also exists that good studio musicians have >no >idea what is involved in having a soul... :-) jeez..... From ???@??? Fri Aug 07 02:36:21 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id XAA14809; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 23:43:52 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 23:43:52 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: NOCOMM@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 23:38:52 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: mailing Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 49 Resent-Message-ID: <"1KNm41.0.qK3.GSdor"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/932 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com put me on your mailing list No comm @aol From ???@??? Fri Aug 07 02:36:23 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id AAA21203; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 00:04:26 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 00:04:26 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: The Unit Circle Message-Id: <199808070357.XAA02190@keys.com> Subject: Re: Boomerang To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 23:57:04 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19980722221657.00e2d678@pop.chromatic.com> from "Kim Flint" at Jul 22, 98 03:16:57 pm Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"5tUk91.0.pl4.ojdor"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/933 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com If you couldn't tell, I'm very late in responding to e-mail. Sorry if I'm rehashing too many old threads for people. About why I think the EDP is too complicated for a performance setting (at least in my case). Like many people on the list, I've got a ton of pedals sitting around my feet when I perform. The less I have to concentrate on any one, the better. Once I've got my loop into the boomerang, I pretty much only use one button, the overdub one. Sometimes I'll hit the reverse. I like the simplicity of the 'rang. I also like the fact that it's built like a tank. I imagine that if I spent some serious time with the EDP, I could probably be as comfortable with it as well. A friend of mine had two EDP units and sold them both and bought 'rangs because he got tired of getting confused while trying to play. Like I said, the EDP sounds like a nifty tool for my studio work (where I can spend time crafting my loops), but in a performance setting, it's more than I need to deal with. Now, when is someone going to create a looper that can have two (or more) different length loops playing simultaneously fighting with each other. . Kevin > > At 05:58 PM 7/22/98 -0400, The Unit Circle wrote: > > It isn't as powerful as the > >echoplex, but it is much simpler to use in a performance setting. If I > >had more cash, I would use the echoplex in the studio and the 'rang on > >stage. > > We designed the echoplex specifically to be easy to use in performance, and > based that off quite a lot of study of it's predecessors and users. For > instance the display and LEDs show you what is going on and where you are, > and are large enough to see. The functions all operate in ways we found to > be most musically intuitive. And if you accidently hit the wrong button and > destroy or screw up your loop, you just press Undo and it's back, even > staying in time. > > So I'm sort of curious about your impression that it isn't simple or useful > in performance. What specifically do you find complicated about it? If there > is something that can be improved, we'd like to hear your opinion. > > kim > ________________________________________________________ > Kim Flint, MTS 408-752-9284 > Chromatic Research kflint@chromatic.com > http://www.chromatic.com > From ???@??? Fri Aug 07 02:36:35 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id BAA27389; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 01:58:54 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 01:58:54 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980806234925.007fc750@wavefront.com> X-Sender: chuck.zwicky@wavefront.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 23:49:25 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chuck Zwicky Subject: Re: Studio Musicians Soulful? And No Mac Koan. In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"KhWlP2.0.PJ6.nPfor"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/934 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Do you mean to imply that they have experience in *selling* a soul??? At 10:44 PM 8/6/98 EDT, you wrote: > >In a message dated 8/6/98 11:23:11 AM, tiktok@sprintmail.com writes: > >>Of course, the possibility also exists that good studio musicians have >>no >>idea what is involved in having a soul... :-) > >jeez..... > > > From ???@??? Thu Aug 13 23:25:24 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA25115; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 17:50:53 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 17:50:53 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <009801bdc1c3$2cad99c0$b1f0ffd0@artmusic.gte> From: "future perfect" To: Subject: Guitar Player review of EDP???? Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 01:21:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"AINTU1.0.c-5.Bxrqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1070 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I was wondering if anyone had a copy of the Sept '95 issue of Guitar Player, which has the review of the Plex in it. I already own a newer Plex, but I'd still be interested in what they had to say. If anyone has a copy of the review, and access to a scanner/photocopier, let me know! Dave Eichenberger From ???@??? Fri Aug 07 10:52:08 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id FAA32746; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 05:48:59 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 05:48:59 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 05:44:51 -0400 From: Andreas Willers Subject: Re: Processors: TC Electronics G-Force Sender: Andreas Willers To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Message-ID: <199808070545_MC2-5566-DD50@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"8i1bh2.0.3k7.qoior"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/935 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I just sat down and tried it out with the G-Force: I does have true stereo ins that can be treated separately. It has nine effect blocks, but only one of each, so you can't have different kinds of e.g. chorus or compression on your seperate lines, but you can route both lines through the same effect. Then probably the stereo out will consist of both input signals.... Maybe units like the Ensonique DP2 or DP4, which are really two/four seperate multieffects in one box, are better for this. Soundwise they are o.K. but not as good as the t.c. stuff. Andreas From ???@??? Fri Aug 07 11:16:22 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id KAA25439; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 10:21:29 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 10:21:29 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35CB0D2A.4659ED88@intcpi.com> Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 10:20:28 -0400 From: "John Price" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Nice calm, flameless art theory from Mark References: <35CA1CED.6019F1EF@mailbox.syr.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"PU1AJ1.0.wq5.inmor"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/936 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com This thread must die !!! Regards, JP Mark Sottilaro wrote: > Hello all! > > OK, I'd like to take a little time here to point out that in my first > post about "art theory" I described "...the generally accepted > contemporary theory of art..." In case anyone hasn't noticed, I didn't > formulate this theory. I was merely stating what it was. We can all > argue until we're blue in the face, but this will not change the current > paradigm... at least not in the short run. I only began lashing out > when I was attacked personally, as if I was the person keeping artists > in "boxes" by formulating horrible theories and making terrible > definitions for words. > > Do I subscribe to the current (western) theories of art that I spoke > of? You bet. > > Why? > > It all has to do with VALUE. I'm one of those people that make my > living by doing art. Because I do I find it extremely crucial to define > what it is that I do because NO ONE WILL PAY FOR SOMETHING UNLESS THEY > KNOW WHAT IT IS. Did I cause this cultural phenomena? No. Is it > real? Yes. As someone who works for a non-profit organization that > receives money from the NEA, I spend a large amount of time defending > artists (that I usually have nothing to do with) such as Robert > Maplethorpe or Mark Rothko. "A red square isn't art! Anyone could do > that! " or "My tax money shouldn't go for that homo crap!" Oh boy, if > ignorance is bliss you'd expect these people to be a lot happier! You > wouldn't believe how many times I hear stuff like that. About as many > times as I have to defend my own minimalist works. "That's not > music...it's just a drone." I'm sure we've all heard things like that. > > The problem with the current "art had no purpose other than to be > itself" theory,is not the theory itself, but the fact that art in our > culture has been devalued. (unless you happen to be a superstar) I > haven't been following the last cd price thread, but haven't we been > talking about this? Most club owners seem to feel that playing music is > the only reward needed for being a musician, but find absolutely no > problem paying to have the floor cleaned. Subsequently, most of us have > to struggle at some other type of work to fund the often exorbitant cost > of musical instruments and the wacky gear that we all love so much. > (I'm saving for a Digitech Space Station as we speak!) This is why I > feel that people have reacted so strongly against the theory I've been > talking about. Artists want to be regarded as the french fry maker is > regarded. By that I mean PAID. Yes, Lance, I listen to Gamalan music > all the time (Cornell University has quite the Gamalan set up) and It's > very nice that the Balinese people don't have a word for art. I can't > say I know anything about their culture, but I'd bet that those who > master the art of Gamalan are regarded very highly in their society, and > compensated for it in some way. I bet they don't even have to pay to > use the PA when they play out. ;-) (sorry, I just can't help being a > sarcastic bastard) I'd love for our culture to be like that, but guess > what? It's not. We're capitalists and unless we can find ways to fund > what we do, we're probably not doing it. I agree that things are pretty > sad at the moment. I hope that the free exchange of thoughts via the > internet will free us from the shackles of BIG BUSINESS IN THE ART WORLD > by allowing us to distribute our stuff by ourselves. Maybe then the > myth of the superstar will die and we can be regarded as people who do a > specific job in our society, a highly valued job. > > Ok, I'm rambling, so I'll shut up. > > Love, > > Mark > > (I'm currently defining "love" as a warm squishy feeling towards > humanity) From ???@??? Fri Aug 07 11:16:37 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id KAA04515; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 10:54:45 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 10:54:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <35CB1503.644F@mdbs.com> Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 09:53:55 -0500 From: "Dennis W. Leas" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; U) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: What happened? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Yk0462.0.on.2Hnor"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/937 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I just received a deluge of old messages from the list, over 200 postings! Although they were old messages, I had never received any of these before. I thought I was missing some of the conversation! Can anybody tell me what's happening? - Dennis Leas From ???@??? Sat Aug 08 00:12:49 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA03044; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 16:48:57 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 16:48:57 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <000201bdc222$5978af80$798232cc@manda> From: "Gerry P" To: , Subject: Re: Oberheim Echoplex/subscribe Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 15:09:50 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"D1XOE1.0.0V.HRsor"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/957 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I highly recommend "8th St Music" - where I got mine two months ago. 1-800-878-8882 Regards Gerry -----Original Message----- From: Dan Gebben To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Friday, August 07, 1998 10:22 AM Subject: Oberheim Echoplex/subscribe >I recently have been researching the Echoplex and read your comparison >between it and the jamman. In the comparison you listed the price of >the echoplex at $800 ($560 street). Where is that street? Do you know a >good shop that does mail order? >Dano From ???@??? Sat Aug 08 00:12:51 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA03064; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 16:49:02 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 16:49:02 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <000301bdc222$5a853d80$798232cc@manda> From: "Gerry P" To: Subject: Re: Any AXON user loopers out there? Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 15:13:43 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"OsRdS1.0.kU.FRsor"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/956 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hi Paolo Thanks for the reply. I ended up getting the Yamaha G50 - which is licensed Blue Chip technology - and I couldn't be happier. Regards Gerry -----Original Message----- From: Paolo Valladolid To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Friday, August 07, 1998 10:03 AM Subject: Re: Any AXON user loopers out there? >> Hi Gerry, >> >> I don't have an Axon, but there's a review in this months Sound on Sound if >> your interested. I have not read it yet. You should also try the Digital >> Guitar newsletter. I do not have there address handy, but Paolo is on this >> list, so I suspect you'll here from him soon. >> >> Patrick > >Sorry for the late response. I couldn't access my Waynesworld account for >almost a week and then when I could I got hit with deadlines at work. >The Digital Guitar site has a link to Blue Chip (makers of the Axon) buried >somewhere. :) > >Cheers, > >Paolo Valladolid > --------------------------------------------------------------- >|Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ >|for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ > ---------------------------------------------------------------- | >\ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | > \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| > ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Fri Aug 07 11:16:49 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA19217; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 11:36:54 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 11:36:54 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 08:28:22 -0700 Message-ID: <0010B80E.----@wj.com> From: Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle) Subject: Re[2]: Studio Musicians Soulful? And No Mac Koan. To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, Texture444@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"K6Hza.0.FJ4.ttnor"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/938 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 8/6/98 11:23:11 AM, tiktok@sprintmail.com writes: >>Of course, the possibility also exists that good studio musicians have >>no idea what is involved in having a soul... :-) dt writes: >jeez..... A depressed sigh... I feel it too, David. You get enough respect to get a few calls for studio dates and envy puts everyone in denial! 8-> I wish I could hear more of you! -Miko From ???@??? Fri Aug 07 11:17:14 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA26964; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 11:54:57 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 11:54:57 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 16:48:25 +0100 (BST) From: Jim Carter To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Derek Bailey - Improvisation In-Reply-To: <0010B80E.----@wj.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"t4KNF.0.DC6.O9oor"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/939 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com To whoever recommended the Derek Bailey book "Improvisation" Thank you I am enjoying reading it enormously Jim Carter e-mail jim.carter@bris.ac.uk From ???@??? Fri Aug 07 11:17:31 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA32006; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 12:07:40 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 12:07:40 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <005001bdc21c$5b8a3920$0006fea9@stepheng> Reply-To: "Stephen P. Goodman" From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: I'm getting every frigging message ever created! Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 08:57:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"BLlrN3.0.OC7.nIoor"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/941 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I'm not popular enough to merit 216 messages, 200 of which were regurgitated from this list. What the flock? Stephen Goodman EarthLight Productions * http://www.earthlight.net From ???@??? Fri Aug 07 11:17:59 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA17832; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 12:48:38 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 12:48:38 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <35CB2D44.EDCA2504@sonic.net> Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 09:37:26 -0700 From: Layne Russell X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: What happened?: 200 messages References: <35CB1503.644F@mdbs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"IStwq1.0.zu3.Rxoor"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/943 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Dennis W. Leas wrote: > I just received a deluge of old messages from the list, over 200 > postings! same here...housecleaning is going to take much longer today...what on earth was all this? Layne From ???@??? Fri Aug 07 11:17:52 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA16295; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 12:45:15 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 12:45:15 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 12:40:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Adam Levin X-Sender: alevin@ari.ari.net Reply-To: Adam Levin To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: I'm getting every frigging message ever created! In-Reply-To: <005001bdc21c$5b8a3920$0006fea9@stepheng> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"pi9Gw.0.7d3.juoor"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/942 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com On Fri, 7 Aug 1998, Stephen P. Goodman wrote: > I'm not popular enough to merit 216 messages, 200 of which were regurgitated > from this list. What the flock? What's interesting is that many of these are messages that I never received, so apparently they've been floating around in the netherworld all this time. -Adam --- "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue, out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one becomes a Hearer." - Chandrakirti T h e D a r k A e t h e r P r o j e c t http://www.darkaether.net/ From ???@??? Fri Aug 07 11:18:06 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA20966; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 12:55:53 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 12:55:53 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD051ACE5@migarexch01.maritz.com> From: "Liebig, Steuart A." To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: What happened?: 200 messages Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 11:49:04 -0500 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Resent-Message-ID: <"QfwXF2.0.WY4.n0por"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/944 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com 224! > -----Original Message----- > From: Layne Russell [SMTP:layne@sonic.net] > Sent: Friday, August 07, 1998 09:37 > To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Subject: Re: What happened?: 200 messages > > > > Dennis W. Leas wrote: > > > I just received a deluge of old messages from the list, over 200 > > postings! > > same here...housecleaning is going to take much longer today...what on > earth was all this? > > Layne From ???@??? Fri Aug 07 11:18:13 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA22170; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 12:58:15 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 12:58:15 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: floyd@voicenet.com Date: 7 Aug 1998 16:51:27 -0000 Message-ID: <19980807165127.12375.qmail@unix01.voicenet.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: 200+ messages Resent-Message-ID: <"x8-Mo.0.rm4.R2por"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/945 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I got them, too. Unforntuately, it seems that we'll be getting another 200 or so messages about the first 200+ messages. :( From ???@??? Fri Aug 07 11:18:20 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA31388; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 13:17:54 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 13:17:54 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Nemoguitt@aol.com Message-ID: <55a587e6.35cb35a7@aol.com> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 13:13:09 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re[2]: still out there >> Jazz Loopin' Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"xlhIu1.0.KG7.INpor"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/946 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com miko....thanks, cant wait to try out the chords.....michael From ???@??? Fri Aug 07 11:17:29 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA31977; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 12:07:36 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 12:07:36 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199808071612.MAA17873@scylla.cowles.com> X-Sender: rswitzer@192.168.3.6 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 14:03:33 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Robert Switzer Subject: Re: Studio Musicians Soulful? And No Mac Koan. In-Reply-To: <199808061519.IAA16440@raven.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"yXjuN2.0.v57.rHoor"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/940 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 10:21 AM 8/6/98 +0100, you wrote: > >I also downloaded the demo of Koan onto a Windows machine (since it >doesn't run for a Mac, and I don't think they have any plans on writing a >Mac version, and I have only Mac's) Take heart, Mac users -- Sseyo has a PPC port of Koan Pro underway ... Rob From ???@??? Sat Aug 08 00:12:18 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA25894; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 15:53:58 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 15:53:58 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980807132448.007dd5c0@wavefront.com> X-Sender: chuck.zwicky@wavefront.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 13:24:48 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chuck Zwicky Subject: Seek Wah! (was Re: Analog filters anyone? In-Reply-To: <000EF6C7.----@wj.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"RsgPq.0.WB6.3gror"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/951 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Don't forget the Z-Vex Seek-Wah! It's an analog filter with a built-in 8 step sequencer (Switchable to 4 or 6 steps). It's in a box the size of an MXR pedal! At 10:33 AM 6/19/98 -0700, you wrote: > Thanks for the reply Chris... > > I've talked with a few others now, and it's becoming clear that > Waldorf has a great reputation. Their 4-pole analog filter is $520.00 > retail. It's mono in - stereo out w/MIDI control. I downloaded their > manual and it really looks like a cool tabletop box. I'm starting to > salivate... > > About the Lovetone Meatball... > > This is an mono envelope follower with ton's of controls as well as a > pedal input for manual sweeps. Users of it rave... I've heard it > sounds as good or better than the EH Q-Tron and it has many more > controls available. It's a stomp box... No MIDI control either. It's > also pretty expensive @ US ~$330.00. I believe I can get a 4-pole for > around $450.00. > > I really like the potential of MIDI control. MIDI sequences can be > tracked by the 4-pole... for example, I could take the MIDI stream > from another players sequence or a drum machine and have the 4-pole > track that while filtering my guitar signal. > > Oh boy!!!!! > -Miko > > >______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ >Subject: Re: Analog filters anyone? >Author: "chris lamb" at INTERNET >Date: 6/19/98 12:15 AM > > > >> Semi-non-looping content ahead! >> >> I've been looking into analog filters to modulate various >> recirculating thangs in my setup. >> >> I started with more guitar-based products such as the EH Q-Tron >and >> Lovetone Meatball, but am now starting to wander into higher end >> keyboard accesories... >> >> Waldorf 4-pole and it's bretheren >> Mutronics Mutator >> Sherman Filterbank >> >> I've only been able to locate information on the Waldorf >products... >> Any clues as to who's selling and possibly stocking these other >> products? >> >> Lastly, does anyone have experience with any of these products and >how >> they function, sound, their capabilities and their user >friendliness? >> >> Best, >> -Miko >> > > > dont know about mutronics or sherman but waldorf filters rock. My >mate's got a pulse+ - a synth where the sounds are shaped by the filters >and nothing else. You can put an external audio input thru them, like a >guitar/drum/anything loop. The filters are very clean and sharp, great >for sweeping sub-basses and peircing leads that cut thru a mix. The >thing about high-end gear like this is that you get a cleaner sound. On >the other hand these clean filters often benefit from being to be passed >thru a distortion box to dirty them up a bit - depends what you're into. > anyway if you want to buy something like this, I'd recommend waldorf >but i've not checked out the other two so... > > so what's the lovetone meatball like then ? I've heard of them but >never seen one, how much are they ? Are they any good ? > >chris > > > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > From ???@??? Mon Aug 10 08:00:42 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id BAA13625; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 01:49:52 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 01:49:52 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <19980807185846.4673.qmail@> Date: 7 Aug 98 12:58:46 MDT From: Bobby Hinson To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: unsubscribe Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dascn1.0.CG3.saepr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/979 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Get me off of this crazy train!!! I've unsubscribed before but, out of the blue my inbox is chock-full of Looper's Delight stuff. Nothing personal, I just don't find enough relavent material in the postings to warent wading through all this e-mail. Peace, Bobby Hinson http://arslupus.cjb.net ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 From ???@??? Sat Aug 08 00:11:46 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA10222; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 15:00:44 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 15:00:44 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35CB4F03.D13C5DBD@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 12:01:28 -0700 From: lance glover Reply-To: baumhaus@earthlink.net Organization: treehouse X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: 200+ messages References: <19980807165127.12375.qmail@unix01.voicenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kTxcB1.0.D32.Htqor"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/947 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com you wrote: > I got them, too. > Unforntuately, it seems that we'll be getting another 200 or > so messages about the first 200+ messages. :( correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe your post adds to the total. :) -L.G. From ???@??? Sat Aug 08 00:11:55 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA16551; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 15:15:00 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 15:15:00 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: The Unit Circle Message-Id: <199808071908.PAA29524@keys.com> Subject: Re: mailing cds to the us To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 15:08:07 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <01BDB412.CCF9DCE0.mpeters@csi.com> from "Michael Peters" at Jul 20, 98 07:12:54 pm Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"2H2nm3.0.zZ3.u3ror"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/949 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I don't remember seeing this before (or any responses to it), so I'm gonna follow up. There are a few services in the US that will take a bunch of CDs from you and mail them to college radio stations (don't know if that is what you are doing?) Gavin is the one that sticks out in my mind. Kevin > > I'd like to send a number of my loop CDs to different addresses in the US of A. > The air mail postage for a CD package from Germany to the US is DM 16, that's > almost 9 American bucks ... very expensive. > > Does anyone know of a way to send them all in one pack (but already in > addressed envelopes) to someone in the US who would take the envelopes, put US > stamps on them, and put them in the postbox? > > michael peters mpeters@csi.com > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Mpeters/ > > > From ???@??? Sat Aug 08 00:11:53 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA16283; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 15:14:22 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 15:14:22 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980807150906.006d9c1c@popmail.voicenet.com> X-Sender: ngc1275@popmail.voicenet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 15:09:06 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Theatre of the Mind Subject: Re: Loops on Acid In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980714234944.007ea2b0@192.168.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"azfNl3.0.2X3.S3ror"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/948 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hi Andrew, I realize this is an old post but I'll respond anyway. I just puchased the Sonic Foundry Acid program about two months ago and am very pleased with it. I used it in a few performances already. It's very intuitive and user friendly for a pc based system. I loaded it in my laptop so, my setup is very portable. I basicly cut my setup in half. All the samples I use from my Emax is now being accessed by the Acid program as well as my SH-101, MC-202 and any other loops I want to bring into the audio arena. Basicly, I use the Acid program as a sampler/looper. I sample my sounds into the Acid prog. and then set my loops of the samples were I want them to play. I can program what seems to be an endless amount of tracks before the performance or during. You can build as big a library of sounds as your hard drive can hold and access them live while the sequence is running. It's very nice to be able to change pitch and tempo live as well without changing the original sample. Within minutes of loading the program into my laptop, I was composing loops and pieces with ease. I haven't even mentioned the ability to have plug-ins and FX yet..........! All and all, I'd say it's a worth while program. The only thing (I've heard) that is anything like it is a Kurzwiel synth. Happy looping and sampling, Mark of b. Theatre of the Mind p.s. If you want to see me live I'll be performing in Philly at upstairs at Nick's, 16 So. 2nd Street on September 1st. PD-5 (Punch Drunk) will also be performing that night. ==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+== At 11:53 PM 7/14/98 +1000, you wrote: >i was wondering whether anyone has used, or is using Acid from Sonic >Foundry. i had a crack at the demo and found it extremely intuitive to use. >however, it's price tag is less intuitive. can't seem to invoke a response >from my wallet. > >i would be interested to know whether anyone has purchased it and what >their experience with it has been. i do a lot of collage based work, so >fast and intuitive interfaces tend to make this process much faster and >easier. i just need to be convinced that software like Acid is worth the >expense. > >andrew > > > From ???@??? Sat Aug 08 00:12:07 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA22094; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 15:29:35 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 15:29:35 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <19980807192524.10968.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [207.94.66.242] From: "Matt Rowe" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Loops on Acid Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 12:25:23 PDT Resent-Message-ID: <"Ljk-T3.0.fG5.TJror"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/950 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com hi all, i just installed acid on my machine, and i love it. it's very intuitive. it's so easy to get things going in sync, to stretch different files to the same lengths. i'd recommend it to any looper. get a loudness maximizer as your first plug-in, it can really push a drum loop to the front. matt >Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 15:09:06 -0400 >To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >From: Theatre of the Mind >Subject: Re: Loops on Acid >Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > >Hi Andrew, >I realize this is an old post but I'll respond anyway. > >I just puchased the Sonic Foundry Acid program about two months ago and >am very pleased with it. I used it in a few performances already. It's >very intuitive and user friendly for a pc based system. I loaded it in >my laptop so, my setup is very portable. I basicly cut my setup in half. > >All the samples I use from my Emax is now being accessed by the Acid >program as well as my SH-101, MC-202 and any other loops I want to bring >into the audio arena. Basicly, I use the Acid program as a sampler/looper. >I sample my sounds into the Acid prog. and then set my loops of the samples >were I want them to play. I can program what seems to be an endless amount >of tracks before the performance or during. You can build as big a library >of sounds as your hard drive can hold and access them live while the >sequence is running. It's very nice to be able to change pitch and tempo >live as well >without changing the original sample. Within minutes of loading the >program into my laptop, I was composing loops and pieces with ease. I >haven't even >mentioned the ability to have plug-ins and FX yet..........! > >All and all, I'd say it's a worth while program. The only thing (I've heard) >that is anything like it is a Kurzwiel synth. > >Happy looping and sampling, > >Mark of b. >Theatre of the Mind > >p.s. If you want to see me live I'll be performing in Philly at upstairs > at Nick's, 16 So. 2nd Street on September 1st. PD-5 (Punch Drunk) > will also be performing that night. > >==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+== > >At 11:53 PM 7/14/98 +1000, you wrote: >>i was wondering whether anyone has used, or is using Acid from Sonic >>Foundry. i had a crack at the demo and found it extremely intuitive to use. >>however, it's price tag is less intuitive. can't seem to invoke a response >>from my wallet. >> >>i would be interested to know whether anyone has purchased it and what >>their experience with it has been. i do a lot of collage based work, so >>fast and intuitive interfaces tend to make this process much faster and >>easier. i just need to be convinced that software like Acid is worth the >>expense. >> >>andrew >> >> >> > > The price I pay for free, private email is the following commercial message... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Sat Aug 08 00:12:27 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA30088; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 16:22:28 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 16:22:28 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Crossedout@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 16:18:31 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: baltimore & NY loopers out there? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"ziRaM3.0.GD7.55sor"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/952 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 8/7/98 4:53:08 AM Central Daylight Time, nicomonguzzi@vtx.ch writes: << i will be in Baltimore in october (i'm composing the music for an exposition with a friend, the group is called "Ebdal Reis"). and just wonder if there is a good drum and percussion shop or a great music shop. I'm interested in a DrumKat drum controller and here in switzerland is too expensive... and maybe an Echoplex... please list the shop and e-mail me personally, it is very kind if someone can help me!!! >> Although somewhat south of Baltimore, in Wheaton Maryland, there is a store called Chuck Levin's Washington Music Center.... they are rather big, and they've been around for years, and they are probably your best bet in the area for finding what you want. Good luck. - Bill Crossedout@aol.com *no longer on the east coast, thank god* From ???@??? Sat Aug 08 00:12:34 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA31288; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 16:26:57 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 16:26:57 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Crossedout@aol.com Message-ID: <9e78b084.35cb6216@aol.com> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 16:22:45 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: SV: Inspiring book on improvisation Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"JlTp11.0.hO7.i8sor"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/953 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Not so much about improv, but a book I'd recommend to any musician is The Real Frank Zappa Book, by, who else, Frank Zappa. Although not a really big fan of his music, I was blown away by some of the theory and concepts he breaks into in his autobiography. And he avoids overly- technical jargon and academic speech in favor of getting his point across in a clear and concise yet useful and meaty manner. Check it out. - Bill Crossedout@aol.com From ???@??? Sat Aug 08 00:12:40 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAB00566; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 16:37:19 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 16:37:19 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Crossedout@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 16:31:19 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: What happened?: 200 messages Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"9Y3Gb1.0.Sx7.SHsor"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/954 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com darn, I feel like Charlie Brown.... I only got 90 messages today..... crying into my beer.... - Bill Crossedout@aol.com From ???@??? Sat Aug 08 00:12:42 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA00697; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 16:37:58 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 16:37:58 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980807153441.00ac36c0@wavefront.com> X-Sender: chuck.zwicky@wavefront.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 15:34:41 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chuck Zwicky Subject: Re: SV: Inspiring book on improvisation In-Reply-To: <9e78b084.35cb6216@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"_IC0B1.0.Wy7.jHsor"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/955 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Very very funny book! -CZ At 04:22 PM 8/7/98 EDT, you wrote: >Not so much about improv, but a book I'd recommend to any musician is The Real >Frank Zappa Book, by, who else, Frank Zappa. > >Although not a really big fan of his music, I was blown away by some of the >theory and concepts he breaks into in his autobiography. And he avoids overly- >technical jargon and academic speech in favor of getting his point across in a >clear and concise yet useful and meaty manner. > >Check it out. > >- Bill >Crossedout@aol.com > > > From ???@??? Sat Aug 08 00:13:16 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id SAA17076; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 18:28:11 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 18:28:11 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Storypod@aol.com Message-ID: <81309649.35cb7e88@aol.com> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 18:24:07 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: For Sale: Protools pkg Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Resent-Message-ID: <"Jhz9E1.0.I34.6xtor"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/958 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Was going to put my Protools digital recording/editing system in the Recycler, then thought I'd put it here first. I've got a 10 month old package: Protools for Mac with Audiomedia III card and 'D-fx' effects plug- in, that I'll sell for $500. This has the latest 4.1 software update (with DAE Powermix), all documentation and manuals. This software uses a Powermac for 8 tracks of simultaneous 16 bit digital audio playback, with great editing and mixing features. The Audiomedia 3 card gives 2 tracks of digital and analog I/O with very nice A-D's. For full specs check out Digidesign's website at www.digidesign.com. Lemme know if anyone's interested. Thanks, Tim Story FWD>>>>> Looping with Protools has been like a revelation to me, too. No, it is not a real-time process, but the system has become so good that it is prety intuitive to pull off clean loops fairly quickly in the studio. A few musicians and myself are putting together a broad range of "dancable soundscapes" using bits of very long jams that we then assemble into fairly structured tunes. This is by no means revolutionary, as this has been the driving force behind a number of "dance" projects, most notabably for me Amon Tobin and Bill Laswell's "Material," (not to mention that Teo Macero was doing this with Miles in the late 60s!) however Protools makes doing this sort of thing dead easy. No cutting tape, no bouncing down, no guess work. And if you don't like the results, just undo them and find something that works better. The studio I work in has recently aquired a HUI and I must say, for any Protools owners out there, you MUST get this box (or Digi's forthcoming ProMix). You can get rid of your mouse, you could even get rid of your monitor (though a monitor is still really nice to have). The HUI allows you quick access to all plugins and just about every aspect of Protools that you would want to control. Finding insert and loop points is way too easy thanks to the jog/shuttle dial. We generally start with a drum beat. Several of the musicians I work with play drums, and someone will just jump into the booth and play some patterns for about half an hour. We'll all sit down with this raw material, pick something that is both groovy and a little twisted and loop that. Someone will lay down a bass line which will also be looped, and we just go from there. We'll lay in found sounds, free jazz jams, analog synth weirdness, etc. For one tune, we have even settled on a B3/guitar unison line that is being ram-roded on top of a 4 bar rhodes vamp that was looped in realtime using an Echoplex. Loops with in loops within loops. Protools has definatly changed my life and the way I make music. If you have a fat trustfund, you really must pick a system up. From ???@??? Sat Aug 08 00:13:42 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA26450; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 19:12:09 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 19:12:09 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: PMimlitsch@aol.com Message-ID: <34cc1d25.35cb88a0@aol.com> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 19:07:10 EDT To: majordomo@ari.net, stickwire-l@majordomo.netcom.com, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Tap/Loops - gigs Content-type: text/plain X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 84 Resent-Message-ID: <"d71y82.0.H66.dZuor"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/959 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Duo gigs ("Explorations in Time and Space")- Paul Mimlitsch (Warr/Stick/Loops) and J. Janetta (percussion/treated voice/loops): @"4th. Street Cafe", Ocean City, N.J. (609)399-0764 -- 7:30 - 10pm Fri. Aug. 21 @"Garden of Eden", Mt. Laurel, N.J. (609)778-1971 -- 7-9:30pm Sat. Aug. 29 This is a real nice little restaurant specializing in health concious cooking/eating especially vegitarian quisine. Preview: @"Highwire Gallery"in conjunction w/Phila Fringe festival, Phila. - on the same bill w/Wash. DC Looper buddies "Fingerpaint" (Patrick Smith, Steve Geest) -times to be announced. Sept. 11 pm. @"TAGfest" (Trenton Avant Garde Festival) - as "Invasion of Time" w/StickPlayer/Loopist Jim Speer and Percussionist J.Janetta - we'll be in the amphitheatre and(?) later at Joe's. - times to be announced @"Princeton Arts Council Recital Series" - one of 4 performers invited to participate in a Fall/Winter recital series. My slot will be the Jan.9 recital (2hrs.). Lots more info to come. "Adelante" <>gigs: @"Coffeetalk", Sea Isle, N.J. (609)263-4145 -- 8-11pm Sat. - Aug.8 Thurs. - Aug. 20 Fri. - Aug. 28 @"Coffeetalk", Stone Harbour, N.J. (609)368-5282 -- 8-11pm Sat. Aug. 22 Thurs. Aug. 27 @"Border's Books/Music", Mays Landing, N.J. (609)407-1960 -- 7-10pm Sat. Sept. 5 Thanks for reading this far. Hope to meet you at one of the gigs. Take care. - Paul From ???@??? Sat Aug 08 00:13:50 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA00745; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 19:58:22 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 19:58:22 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199808072344.QAA42204@scv1.apple.com> Subject: Musicians/Floor Cleaners Date: Fri, 7 Aug 98 18:46:00 -0600 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"k8y6J1.0.E5.iFvor"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/960 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Earlier, someone was pointing out how club owners would pay someone to mop the floors, but often expect playing to be reward enough for the musicians. A problem with this comparison is that the results of the floor cleaner are virtually guaranteed. With a mop, bucket, and soapy water, the cleaner will produce a clean floor. That is his job. If at the end of the evening, the floor is not cleaned, he doesn't get paid, or is fired. The job of the musician is not so well defined. For many musicians, it is to play music. If the music is played, then the musician should be paid, goes the theory. For many club owners, the job of the musician is to generate bar sales. If sales do not go up (or don't go up by a certain amount), the musician has not done his job, and doesn't deserve to be paid. If you can pack in the hard-drinking crowd, most owners don't care what you play, and vice versa. Those are the realities of then intersection between art and commerce. If you're not the sort of musician that brings people out in thirsty droves, it would be wise to consider other, non-monetary reward systems. Playing live in the Zone of Commerce isn't for everyone, which is no slight to those so disposed. Travis Hartnett From ???@??? Sat Aug 08 00:14:05 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id XAA23761; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 23:59:34 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 23:59:34 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35CBCDA8.BE158516@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 21:01:47 -0700 From: lance glover Reply-To: baumhaus@earthlink.net Organization: treehouse X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: 200+ 1 or 2 References: <19980807195719.881.qmail@unix01.voicenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"iRL-T.0.Yj5.unyor"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/961 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com floyd@voicenet.com wrote: > You wrote: > > > correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe your post adds to the total. :) > > Yes, but only 1 out of many :)) Oh, man! I guess this was just one of those days. I meant for this to be a private email, but I, uh, er... I uh... Yikes! -LG From ???@??? Sat Aug 08 00:14:44 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id BAA00435; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 01:32:14 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 01:32:14 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35CBE3EB.7E64@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 22:36:44 -0700 From: scott kungha drengsen X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: anyone want to swap recordings? References: <199807082219.SAA14927@shell.monmouth.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"592m03.0.Y.W7-or"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/962 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hey Andre, Just got your message(still not sure why it went down like this)and I'm very interested in your music.I'm about to leave for N.Y. to perform at Stevie Wonder's Wondervision thing so I'm not sure when I can get my CD shipped.(probebly a week or longer)but please e-mail me an addresse. THANKS! From ???@??? Sat Aug 08 00:14:46 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id BAA00914; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 01:37:12 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 01:37:12 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35CBE518.1905@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 22:41:44 -0700 From: scott kungha drengsen X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: anyone want to swap recordings? References: <8f1dcf0c.35a4f3c1@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"a_k3V1.0.F8.BC-or"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/963 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hey Brad, Just got your message and my CD will go out next week via my assistant.Hope you like it and I look forward to hearing yours. scott From ???@??? Sat Aug 08 10:15:00 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id EAA26642; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 04:57:19 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 04:57:19 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: "brian siskind" To: Subject: Re: anyone want to swap recordings? Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 03:57:55 -0500 Message-ID: <01bdc2aa$a2035c40$01b72499@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"fHDwA2.0.rC6.F81pr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/964 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I AM NOT BRAD...KEEP YOUR EMAIL TO YOURSELF -----Original Message----- From: scott kungha drengsen To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Saturday, August 08, 1998 12:37 AM Subject: Re: anyone want to swap recordings? >Hey Brad, >Just got your message and my CD will go out next week via my >assistant.Hope you like it and I look forward to hearing yours. > scott > > From ???@??? Sat Aug 08 10:15:10 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id JAA19301; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 09:24:49 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 09:24:49 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199808081320.JAA08737@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: VR-Wimbush-Calhoun on Niacin trip Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 09:16:46 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rrw373.0.fR4.A35pr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/965 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com hey folks.. just saw Vernon Reid w/ Will Calhoun, Doug Wimbush..PLUS Niacin with Dennis Chambers, John Novello, Billy Sheehan.... great!! show... fat organ trio stuff by niacin (get it - niacin is vitamin "B3") Dennis controls time..... then 3/4 of the later living colour tore it up - a small equipment store onstage.....lotsa looping, incredible drums by will calhoun... these guys tore thru trip hop, spaceyness, funk, a couple tunes from vernon's solo CD, and even the instrumental Living colour tidbit.... check it out 2nite if yo're near NYC... what a night. bottom line - nyc, two shows sat aug 8 -- andre' From ???@??? Sat Aug 08 10:15:17 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA25686; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 11:09:17 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 11:09:17 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199808081504.LAA24974@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: Re: anyone want to swap recordings? Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 11:00:38 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fQL1T3.0.Dy5.Va6pr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/966 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com to - scott kungha d which andre'? the cool one ??? (jes kidding, me brother) email direct, pls andre' From ???@??? Sat Aug 08 12:47:02 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA22761; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 13:48:14 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 13:48:14 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: dmgraph@mail.bway.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 13:43:59 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: David Myers Subject: Whither Event Electronics? Resent-Message-ID: <"GJ2PK2.0.a15.6u8pr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/967 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hope this isn't too off-topic, but many people here are concerned with computing, etc. Even tho I'm not seriously into the computer as music tool, I was considering an Event Gina card/box for my Mac (the Mac drivers have been in beta), and I watch their site. Woops, the site seems to have disappeared! Anybody know the story? David Myers From ???@??? Sat Aug 08 12:47:10 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA31699; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 15:31:08 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 15:31:08 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Fmplautus@aol.com Message-ID: <18ad3bb2.35cca67e@aol.com> Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 15:26:53 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re[2]: still out there >> Jazz Loopin' Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 84 Resent-Message-ID: <"pDBcJ3.0.IQ7.eQApr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/968 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Miko: Saw your post asking for chord progressions. The LoOpdOctOrs can recommend Ted Greene's Modern Chord Progressions published by Dale Zdenek. Their is a mind boggling array of progressions in oversize paperback book form available for $14.95. Incidentally, Mr. Greene's onslaught of Jazz guitar books published from the seventies on (Chord Chemistry, and Jazz Guitar Single Note soloing vol. 1 & 2) are an amazing edifice to one man's singular musical passion. We like the weird buttons he's put on his Telecasters, too. Best, the LoOpdOctOrs From ???@??? Sat Aug 08 12:51:02 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA07105; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 15:51:32 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 15:51:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199808070357.XAA02190@keys.com> References: <2.2.32.19980722221657.00e2d678@pop.chromatic.com> from "Kim Flint" at Jul 22, 98 03:16:57 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 12:35:51 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Boomerang Resent-Message-ID: <"bCstx1.0.fT1.CkApr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/970 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 8:57 PM -0700 8/6/98, The Unit Circle wrote: >About why I think the EDP is too complicated for a performance setting (at >least in my case). Like many people on the list, I've got a ton of pedals >sitting around my feet when I perform. The less I have to concentrate on >any one, the better. Once I've got my loop into the boomerang, I pretty >much only use one button, the overdub one. Sometimes I'll hit the >reverse. I like the simplicity of the 'rang. Well, you can do these exact same things with the echoplex, in pretty much exactly the same way. The echoplex has 7 buttons on its footpedal, which is only one more than on the boomerang. So I guess I still don't understand why it is you think the echoplex is too complicated to perform with. Do you have something more specific? What is it that confuses you? That was my question, and you didn't really answer it. >A >friend of mine had two EDP units and sold them both and bought 'rangs >because he got tired of getting confused while trying to play. Like I What was it that your friend found confusing? The reason I ask is that things can always be improved, but you have to be more clear about what the problem is first. Just making a negative criticism with no specifics isn't very useful to anybody. >I imagine that if I spent some serious time >with the EDP, I could probably be as comfortable with it as well. I think you can figure out the basic features in a few minutes and be ready to go. It doesn't take much to be comfortable with those. They are designed to be simple and obvious to use. There's a lot more depth in the echoplex if you want it, but there's no requirement that you learn everything before you can use it comfortably. Most people use just the basic parts of the echoplex for quite a while at first. Just those are pretty satisfying and a lot of fun, same as they are on the boomerang and jamman. And when you're ready to move deeper, the echoplex has plenty more there for you. It's like learning any other instrument, you start off with the basics and then keep learning. You don't have to know everything to get started and have fun with it or perform with it. I've played guitar for over 20 years, and I still feel like there's a lot left to learn. That certainly hasn't kept me from playing it or performing with it over the years, or caused me to give it up because there was too much. The stuff I know how to do so far is satisfying, and the fact that there is more there is a good thing, IMO. I recently got a drum set, and have been trying to learn to play for a couple of weeks. I still really suck at it, and feel I am a long way from being able to successfully and comfortably play drums in a performance, but I'm having fun anyway. In my opinion, drums are a hell of a lot harder to use well than any looper out there! But I haven't relegated the drum set to just being a studio device as a result. I just need to keep learning. Even so, I was able to play basic beats along with my girlfriend on piano last night, and it wasn't a total failure. We had a good time. >Now, when is someone going to create a looper that can have two >(or more) different length loops playing simultaneously fighting with each >other. . So on one hand, you want things to be more simple, but then you want to add features that would make the interface significantly more complex, and certainly require "some serious time" to be comfortable with. Do you think you can have it both ways? kim >> >> At 05:58 PM 7/22/98 -0400, The Unit Circle wrote: >> > It isn't as powerful as the >> >echoplex, but it is much simpler to use in a performance setting. If I >> >had more cash, I would use the echoplex in the studio and the 'rang on >> >stage. >> >> We designed the echoplex specifically to be easy to use in performance, and >> based that off quite a lot of study of it's predecessors and users. For >> instance the display and LEDs show you what is going on and where you are, >> and are large enough to see. The functions all operate in ways we found to >> be most musically intuitive. And if you accidently hit the wrong button and >> destroy or screw up your loop, you just press Undo and it's back, even >> staying in time. >> >> So I'm sort of curious about your impression that it isn't simple or useful >> in performance. What specifically do you find complicated about it? If there >> is something that can be improved, we'd like to hear your opinion. >> >> kim >> ________________________________________________________ >> Kim Flint, MTS 408-752-9284 >> Chromatic Research kflint@chromatic.com >> http://www.chromatic.com >> ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sat Aug 08 12:47:12 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA02383; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 15:39:41 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 15:39:41 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: PJBMHB@aol.com Message-ID: <1e1937d1.35cca8aa@aol.com> Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 15:36:08 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re[2]: still out there >> Jazz Loopin' Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Resent-Message-ID: <"1pRF_1.0.0L.MZApr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/969 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com ted greene gave me the courage to play jazz on my tele and lose my cheesy japanese jazzbox forever. he is a hero and his books are all really cool as is his beard-w/o-mustache look!! viva las 70's!! =-) PJ From ???@??? Sun Aug 09 00:45:04 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: from pop01.globecomm.net (pop01.globecomm.net [206.253.129.185]) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) with ESMTP id QAA27320; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 16:42:12 -0400 Received: from musician.org (ts004d34.lax-ca.concentric.net [206.173.239.190]) by pop01.globecomm.net (8.9.0/8.8.0) with ESMTP id QAA23447; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 16:41:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35CCB894.69A8DB67@musician.org> Date: Sat, 08 Aug 1998 13:44:08 -0700 From: eric potter Reply-To: eric@musician.org Organization: Hog Wild Music and Sound FX X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, KimFlint Subject: Re: Boomerang References: <2.2.32.19980722221657.00e2d678@pop.chromatic.com> from "Kim Flint" at Jul 22, 98 03:16:57 pm Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kim Flint wrote: > So I guess I still don't understand > why it is you think the echoplex is too complicated to perform with. Do you > have something more specific? What is it that confuses you? That was my > question, and you didn't really answer it. Here's my idea of the 'rang's simplicity (I am not the original poster): The Boomerang fits perfectly into my stage/jam set-up because it is a floor pedal with no rack associations. This is a simpler arrangement for me because my current signal processing set-up is 100% pedal based. It goes guitar>pedalboard (w/boomerang)>amp. Set-up involves plugging in AC, guitar into board, board into amp. GO. Meanwhile the JamMan (which I also own) and the Echoplex (which I hope to own) involve an additional 'section' of signal routing, set-up, and another place to focus your attention (if only occasionally), that is, the rack. Rack units really should be installed in a rack case. For a while I just set the JamMan on top of my amp, but that was a little risky. Now I've got a rack case with BBE preamp, Vortex, JamMan. It's tidy and has a great vocabulary, but my pedalboard produces my trademark tones in a way that allows for more spontaneous control, and sometimes lack of control. I'm not happy without it! The entire Boomerang's contents fit into my vision when I cast my sight down to where my pedals are. That's all. All these units were very well designed. Each inspired new ideas very easily when I was introduced to them. If the Echoplex DP could be presented in a floor unit like the Boomerang, I would have waited and saved the extra money for it (I was offered the 'rang at a price I couldn't refuse!). But this may place limitations on the EDP's more sublime features. Also its in-depth degree of tweakability is right in line with the rack format and all the powerful processors that it could be mated with (G-Force, etc.). Still, though it seems unlikely, I have to ask... Kim, what do you think of a 100% floor based EDP? What would it be like? Would anything have to be sacrificed to fit it in a Boomerang-sized case? -eric From ???@??? Sun Aug 09 00:45:05 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA28551; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 16:45:28 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 16:45:28 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35CCB894.69A8DB67@musician.org> Date: Sat, 08 Aug 1998 13:44:08 -0700 From: eric potter Reply-To: eric@musician.org Organization: Hog Wild Music and Sound FX X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, KimFlint Subject: Re: Boomerang References: <2.2.32.19980722221657.00e2d678@pop.chromatic.com> from "Kim Flint" at Jul 22, 98 03:16:57 pm Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"yBWar3.0.Mh6.dWBpr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/971 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Kim Flint wrote: > So I guess I still don't understand > why it is you think the echoplex is too complicated to perform with. Do you > have something more specific? What is it that confuses you? That was my > question, and you didn't really answer it. Here's my idea of the 'rang's simplicity (I am not the original poster): The Boomerang fits perfectly into my stage/jam set-up because it is a floor pedal with no rack associations. This is a simpler arrangement for me because my current signal processing set-up is 100% pedal based. It goes guitar>pedalboard (w/boomerang)>amp. Set-up involves plugging in AC, guitar into board, board into amp. GO. Meanwhile the JamMan (which I also own) and the Echoplex (which I hope to own) involve an additional 'section' of signal routing, set-up, and another place to focus your attention (if only occasionally), that is, the rack. Rack units really should be installed in a rack case. For a while I just set the JamMan on top of my amp, but that was a little risky. Now I've got a rack case with BBE preamp, Vortex, JamMan. It's tidy and has a great vocabulary, but my pedalboard produces my trademark tones in a way that allows for more spontaneous control, and sometimes lack of control. I'm not happy without it! The entire Boomerang's contents fit into my vision when I cast my sight down to where my pedals are. That's all. All these units were very well designed. Each inspired new ideas very easily when I was introduced to them. If the Echoplex DP could be presented in a floor unit like the Boomerang, I would have waited and saved the extra money for it (I was offered the 'rang at a price I couldn't refuse!). But this may place limitations on the EDP's more sublime features. Also its in-depth degree of tweakability is right in line with the rack format and all the powerful processors that it could be mated with (G-Force, etc.). Still, though it seems unlikely, I have to ask... Kim, what do you think of a 100% floor based EDP? What would it be like? Would anything have to be sacrificed to fit it in a Boomerang-sized case? -eric From ???@??? Sun Aug 09 00:45:08 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA21718; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 17:50:52 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 17:50:52 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Sender: mpeters@csi.com Message-ID: <01BDC326.7A87DDE0.mpeters@csi.com> From: Michael Peters To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: AW: mailing cds to the us Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 23:40:21 +0200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-Mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kCMFR3.0.F25.6UCpr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/972 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > There are a few services in the US that will take a bunch of CDs from you > and mail them to college radio stations (don't know if that is what you > are doing?) Gavin is the one that sticks out in my mind. sounds interesting ... where can I find Gavin? * michael peters mpeters@csi.com * "escape veloopity" electronic guitar loop music * http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Mpeters From ???@??? Sun Aug 09 00:45:10 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id SAA05785; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 18:33:35 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 18:33:35 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980808170502.00857720@wavefront.com> X-Sender: chuck.zwicky@wavefront.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 1998 17:05:02 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chuck Zwicky Subject: Floor VS. Rack Loopers... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"oOaly2.0.X81.26Dpr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/973 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I use my Jam-man in an SKB rack which sits face up on the stage in front of me. Very convenient and very visible! A friend of mine has a pedalboard with small rack rails at the top which is where he mounts his Jam-Man. -Chuck Zwicky From ???@??? Sun Aug 09 00:45:23 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id VAA02409; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 21:44:46 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 21:44:46 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 18:27:35 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Boomerang Resent-Message-ID: <"3Qmeh1.0.yW.bvFpr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/974 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 1:44 PM 8/8/98, eric potter wrote: >Kim Flint wrote: > >> So I guess I still don't understand >> why it is you think the echoplex is too complicated to perform with. Do you >> have something more specific? What is it that confuses you? That was my >> question, and you didn't really answer it. > >Here's my idea of the 'rang's simplicity (I am not the original poster): > >The Boomerang fits perfectly into my stage/jam set-up because it is a >floor pedal >with no rack associations. This is a simpler arrangement for me because my >current >signal processing set-up is 100% pedal based. It goes guitar>pedalboard >(w/boomerang)>amp. Set-up involves >plugging in AC, guitar into board, board into amp. GO. > I recently bought a Boomerang for exactly the same reasons Eric mentions here. I was going to wait on the EH 16 Second re-issue, but I picked up the 'rang a few weeks ago, and it has simplified my life. I go from bass ->pedalboard->rang->amp and it takes about 10 minutes to hook it all up. My previous system, using the JamMan and Vortex in rack meant stringing 2 more audio cables, 3 more cables carrying control voltages to the JamMan/Vortex foot pedals, 3 more pedals and another volume pedal. I am losing some functionality, here, and probably some sound quality, but when I'm playing with the rang, it doesn't feel like I'm missing anything. It sound fine, as good as any of my other effects through my amp, and it has a very well-desogned user interface. I think the interface is more of an issue to JamMan users than the Echoplex, the plex foot controller is a great design, but the ease of setup still applies. > >Still, though it seems unlikely, I have to ask... > >Kim, what do you think of a 100% floor based EDP? >What would it be like? Would anything have to be sacrificed to fit it in a >Boomerang-sized case? > >-eric Yeah, I'd buy one. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ "...there will come a day when you won't have to use gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." -Sun Ra ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Sun Aug 09 00:45:27 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id WAA05989; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 22:25:53 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 22:25:53 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35CD0657.C9F07EB4@cyber-dyne.com> Date: Sat, 08 Aug 1998 19:15:51 -0700 From: Marc Roche X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Echoplex memory References: <2.2.32.19980807001758.00dc44d0@pop.chromatic.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"WG38_3.0.zL1.3UGpr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/975 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hi all, I just sent my new (7/1) EDP back to Oberheim yesterday. Tried two different batches of simms from two different retailers and neither of them worked (the unit worked fine with the supplied 50secs of memory). Could I have been so unlucky as to get bad simms twice? Hope to be getting an answer soon. Kim Flint wrote: > It works with parity or non-parity simms, and it doesn't matter if you mix > them or max the memory or whatever. (the parity bit is ignored.) That's in > the echoplex FAQ on the LD website. The problems a few people had seemed to > be from some bad batch of simms, and nobody has reported anything like it > since. In general it's always worked fine with any type simm out there, and > there isn't any known problem with fully loaded memory. I've heard that > reported a couple times and it always turned out to be something else. (like > a bad simm...) > > kim > From ???@??? Sun Aug 09 00:45:40 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id BAB25025; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 01:44:30 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 01:44:30 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Douglas Lawrence" To: Subject: RE: Echoplex memory Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 01:44:05 -0400 Message-ID: <000301bdc358$b899afa0$87500218@cc1006472-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <35CD0657.C9F07EB4@cyber-dyne.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"AbKYj.0.R16.tPJpr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/976 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com My Echoplex is now back at Oberheim being checked out for the same reasons. I haven't heard back from them what the problem was. >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Marc Roche [mailto:govinda@cyber-dyne.com] >>Sent: Saturday, August 08, 1998 10:16 PM >>To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >>Subject: Re: Echoplex memory >> >> >>Hi all, >> >>I just sent my new (7/1) EDP back to Oberheim yesterday. Tried >>two different >>batches of simms from two different retailers and neither of them >>worked (the >>unit worked fine with the supplied 50secs of memory). Could I >>have been so >>unlucky as to get bad simms twice? Hope to be getting an answer soon. >>Kim Flint wrote: >> >>> It works with parity or non-parity simms, and it doesn't matter >>if you mix >>> them or max the memory or whatever. (the parity bit is >>ignored.) That's in >>> the echoplex FAQ on the LD website. The problems a few people >>had seemed to >>> be from some bad batch of simms, and nobody has reported >>anything like it >>> since. In general it's always worked fine with any type simm >>out there, and >>> there isn't any known problem with fully loaded memory. I've heard that >>> reported a couple times and it always turned out to be >>something else. (like >>> a bad simm...) >>> >>> kim From ???@??? Sun Aug 09 19:35:41 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA05306; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 17:58:17 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 17:58:17 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: "Claude Lassonde" To: "Loopers-Delight" Subject: RE(2): Echoplex memory mess... Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 17:54:46 -0400 Message-ID: <000001bdc3e0$52f4afa0$34c8c80a@classonde.psbgm.qc.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <000301bdc358$b899afa0$87500218@cc1006472-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"98b8h.0.1F1.qhXpr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/977 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com What a mess... The service people at the company should post comments over here to sort things out... Any Gibson-Oberheim-Echoplex tech around? > -----Original Message----- > From: Douglas Lawrence [mailto:douglas-lawrence@home.com] > Sent: dimanche, aot 09, 1998 01:44 > To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Subject: RE: Echoplex memory > > > My Echoplex is now back at Oberheim being checked out for the > same reasons. > I haven't heard back from them what the problem was. > > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: Marc Roche [mailto:govinda@cyber-dyne.com] > >>Sent: Saturday, August 08, 1998 10:16 PM > >>To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > >>Subject: Re: Echoplex memory > >> > >> > >>Hi all, > >> > >>I just sent my new (7/1) EDP back to Oberheim yesterday. Tried > >>two different > >>batches of simms from two different retailers and neither of them > >>worked (the > >>unit worked fine with the supplied 50secs of memory). Could I > >>have been so > >>unlucky as to get bad simms twice? Hope to be getting an answer soon. > >>Kim Flint wrote: > >> > >>> It works with parity or non-parity simms, and it doesn't matter > >>if you mix > >>> them or max the memory or whatever. (the parity bit is > >>ignored.) That's in > >>> the echoplex FAQ on the LD website. The problems a few people > >>had seemed to > >>> be from some bad batch of simms, and nobody has reported > >>anything like it > >>> since. In general it's always worked fine with any type simm > >>out there, and > >>> there isn't any known problem with fully loaded memory. I've > heard that > >>> reported a couple times and it always turned out to be > >>something else. (like > >>> a bad simm...) > >>> > >>> kim > From ???@??? Mon Aug 10 08:00:35 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id AAA04197; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 00:14:25 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 00:14:25 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199808100410.VAA11965@magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Subject: FS: 4sec Time Machine (not mine) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 98 23:11:52 +0100 x-sender: tiktok@pop.a001.sprintmail.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Tiktok Mobile HQ To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"JN00U3.0.jw.VBdpr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/978 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >From Harmony Central, for all you folks who like knobs: Digitech Time Machine RDS4000 Asking Price: US$70 Condition: Excellent Age: N/A Description: Digitech Time Machine RDS4000. Rack Mount Delay Unit. Delay times from 1ms to 4 seconds. Has sample/trigger mode. $70 Seller: Patrick Steele, E-mail: mindbendrr@aol.com Location: BRENTWOOD, NY Post Date: 8/9/98 From ???@??? Mon Aug 10 08:00:51 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id DAA22719; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 03:43:39 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 03:43:39 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199808100739.QAA28944@pop1.ngy.3web.ne.jp> X-Mailer: Macintosh Eudora Pro Version 3.1.1-J In-Reply-To: <35CBE3EB.7E64@earthlink.net> References: <199807082219.SAA14927@shell.monmouth.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:39:48 +0900 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Sunao Inami Subject: 22th Sept. LD-J live! Resent-Message-ID: <"p7S_P1.0.tU5.CGgpr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/980 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hi Loopers, We making preparations for the live gig "Looper's Delight-J" at 22th September ,Barton Hall,Hyogo,Japan. It motif is loopy method music with real time looping by Japanese atrist in kansai area. This live gig will live streaming via Real Audio from Barton Hall. (maybe address is pnm://210.163.123.36/loopers_j.rm it need Realplyer 5.0 or later and 28.8K modem or faster for listen.) Also would like to request some loop materials to LD lists. it will use in live gig for loops. If you have interest,please send your sounds for me by cassete,MD,DAT or CDR to me. (Email,FTP is bad..) deadline is 10th Sept. I think air mail will arrive by 10days from around the world. Address is: Sunao Inami CAVE Studio 316 Ohshima,Kuchiyokawa Miki City,Hyogo Japan 6730755 I already got a tape from Jeff Collins(he is a menber of LD). I want to more sounds from loop artists of Internet connection. I will web page for this live gig, URL is http://www.threeweb.ad.jp/~cave/LD_J.html btw, I will visit to London 12th to 19th Aug. I can not read mail till 20th night. Best Regards Sunao Inami E-mail cave@osk.3web.ne.jp URL"cave home" http://www.threeweb.ad.jp/~cave/ tel&fax "CAVE Studio" +81 794 89 5025 Hyogo,Japan tel&fax "Private" +81 794 89 5015 Hyogo,Japan snail mail address 316 Ohshima Kuchiyokawa Miki City Hyogo Japan 6730755 From ???@??? Mon Aug 10 08:01:11 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id EAA28478; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 04:58:42 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 04:58:42 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35CEB532.FFD1740A@musician.org> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 01:54:13 -0700 From: eric potter Reply-To: eric@musician.org Organization: Hog Wild Music and Sound FX X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Floor VS. Rack Loopers... References: <3.0.5.32.19980808170502.00857720@wavefront.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"icB563.0.uo6.xJhpr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/981 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I actually use my JamMan the exact same way. I sit on a drum throne during a lot of a gig and the panel controls are just a slight reach down to my Vortex/JamMan combo rack w/stereo ins/outs, footcontroller jacks, etc. mounted into a recessed panel on the side of the case. I used a front panel at first, but then I wanted to stick a BBE in the top space. It's a great box for following the old-tech pedalboard, defines the signal before going to the Lexis. But only in more looping-intensive situations do I actually bring the rack. It is no less convenient than the pedalboard, in fact a little tidier, but the variety of hand-picked effects on the board has been winning out! Chuck, I read about your rig on the web and it definitely sounds like the ultimate in portability and range - that guitar and tuning is very interesting, maybe like a baby Stick? Great utilization of the JamMan's stereo pass-thru, effecting before and after. If I could get another Vortex real cheap, I might try it! -eric Chuck Zwicky wrote: > I use my Jam-man in an SKB rack which sits face up on the stage in front of > me. > Very convenient and very visible! > > A friend of mine has a pedalboard with small rack rails at the top which is > where he mounts his Jam-Man. > > -Chuck Zwicky From ???@??? Mon Aug 10 12:31:36 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA04104; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 11:39:58 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 11:39:58 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <35CF1426.1686@mdbs.com> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 10:39:18 -0500 From: "Dennis W. Leas" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; U) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Musicians/Floor Cleaners References: <199808072344.QAA42204@scv1.apple.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9CC023.0.Ys.PEnpr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/982 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com T.W. Hartnett wrote: > > For many club owners, the job of the musician is > to generate bar sales. Sometimes I explain to the bar owner that it is MY job to get people in the door and it is HIS/HER job to sell them drinks/food/etc. Sometimes they get my point. Sometimes I find better places to play. - Dennis Leas From ???@??? Mon Aug 10 12:32:10 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA19679; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:28:32 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:28:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD051ACF7@migarexch01.maritz.com> From: "Liebig, Steuart A." To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: gamalan Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 12:21:46 -0500 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Resent-Message-ID: <"rCtcX.0.eb4.hoopr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/983 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I can't say I know anything about their culture, but I'd bet that those who master the art of Gamalan are regarded very highly in their society, and compensated for it in some way. I bet they don't even have to pay to use the PA when they play out. ;-) (sorry, I just can't help being a sarcastic bastard) I'd love for our culture to be like that, but guess what? It's not. We're capitalists and unless we can find ways to fund what we do, we're probably not doing it. An interesting (I hope) story . . . a friend of mine was gigging in (Bali I think). He said that there were two local guys he was playing with that were doing mostly western music - - pop, rock, r&b, jazz stuff - - because that's where the money was. These guys were, in comparison to most of the populace, pretty well-heeled . . . good gear, nice clothes, jewelry, cars; in other words, the usual materials goods that many get when they are affluent . . . My friend was at a hotel and saw a small Gamalan orchestra performing for a wedding. Apparently these people were playing for something like 6 hours (or more?) for very little in comparison to what my friend and his folks were making for 3-hour club dates. I don't know how masterful these people were at their traditional music, but I'm not sure how "valued" they are . . . more signs of encroaching western cultural imperialism? I agree that things are pretty sad at the moment. I hope that the free exchange of thoughts via the internet will free us from the shackles of BIG BUSINESS IN THE ART WORLD by allowing us to distribute our stuff by ourselves. Maybe then the myth of the superstar will die and we can be regarded as people who do a specific job in our society, a highly valued job. I concur . . . stig From ???@??? Mon Aug 10 12:32:14 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA21465; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:39:51 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:39:51 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199808101735.CAA21233@pop1.ngy.3web.ne.jp> X-Mailer: Macintosh Eudora Pro Version 3.1.1-J Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 02:34:48 +0900 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Sunao Inami Subject: 22th Sept. LD-J live! Resent-Message-ID: <"nIy9A.0.E65.H-opr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/984 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hi Loopers, We making preparations for the live gig "Looper's Delight-J" at 22th September ,Barton Hall,Hyogo,Japan. It motif is loopy method music with real time looping by Japanese atrist in kansai area. This live gig will live streaming via Real Audio from Barton Hall. (maybe address is pnm://210.163.123.36/loopers_j.rm it need Realplyer 5.0 or later and 28.8K modem or faster for listen.) Also would like to request some loop materials to LD lists. it will use in live gig for loops. If you have interest,please send your sounds for me by cassete,MD,DAT or CDR to me. (Email,FTP is bad..) deadline is 10th Sept. I think air mail will arrive by 10days from around the world. Address is: Sunao Inami CAVE Studio 316 Ohshima,Kuchiyokawa Miki City,Hyogo Japan 6730755 I already got a tape from Jeff Collins(he is a menber of LD). I want to more sounds from loop artists of Internet connection. I will web page for this live gig, URL is http://www.threeweb.ad.jp/~cave/LD_J.html btw, I will visit to London 12th to 19th Aug. I can not read mail till 20th night. Best Regards Sunao Inami E-mail cave@osk.3web.ne.jp URL"cave home" http://www.threeweb.ad.jp/~cave/ tel&fax "CAVE Studio" +81 794 89 5025 Hyogo,Japan tel&fax "Private" +81 794 89 5015 Hyogo,Japan snail mail address 316 Ohshima Kuchiyokawa Miki City Hyogo Japan 6730755 From ???@??? Mon Aug 10 12:32:48 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA32748; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 14:56:45 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 14:56:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: The Unit Circle Message-Id: <199808101851.OAA27646@keys.com> Subject: Re: Boomerang To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 14:51:33 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: from "Kim Flint" at Aug 8, 98 12:35:51 pm Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"Rxo_y1.0.bv7.E7qpr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/985 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > Well, you can do these exact same things with the echoplex, in pretty much > exactly the same way. The echoplex has 7 buttons on its footpedal, which is > only one more than on the boomerang. So I guess I still don't understand > why it is you think the echoplex is too complicated to perform with. Do you > have something more specific? What is it that confuses you? That was my > question, and you didn't really answer it. > I'm not criticizing the EDP outright. I think it's a nifty box and I will be adding it to my studio set up someday (hopefully). My criticism is based on my in-store comparisons. I was able to get the Boomerang doing interesting stuff very quickly, the EDP was hard to figure out at first. Based on my rather quick comparisons (and the 'rangs built in memory and lower price), I went with the rang. I also have to agree with some of the people on the list about ease of use routing. My signal path goes - Distortion->Rang->Delay->Delay->(road case)Reverb->Reverb. It would be a serious pain to have to route back and forth from the road case in the middle of the chain. I can totally see having the EDP (with the control box sitting near the console) in my studio set up. > >A > >friend of mine had two EDP units and sold them both and bought 'rangs > >because he got tired of getting confused while trying to play. Like I > > What was it that your friend found confusing? > I didn't delve too deeply into it with him since I already had my 'rang at that point and wasn't doing any comparison shopping. I think he just had problems getting everything doing what he wanted them too when he was playing live. > The reason I ask is that things can always be improved, but you have to be > more clear about what the problem is first. Just making a negative > criticism with no specifics isn't very useful to anybody. > I understand that you want more direct criticism, being that I don't own an EDP, I can't provide it to you. When I get one, and I spend some time with it, I'll write something better up. > >other. . > > So on one hand, you want things to be more simple, but then you want to add > features that would make the interface significantly more complex, and > certainly require "some serious time" to be comfortable with. Do you think > you can have it both ways? > Uh, no. If the EDP had the multiple different length loops, it would have been the extra needed justification for me to buy it and spend the time with it. I'm not afraid of complexity (I certaily own boxes that I've had for years and am still finding out new things about), but when I'm buying a "looper," I'm making a comparison between features/price/memory/stability, etc... When I was looking for a stage looper, the 'rang won. I wouldn't use the rang in the studio, but I would certainly buy an EDP for that. Kevin From ???@??? Mon Aug 10 12:32:53 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA00862; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 15:01:03 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 15:01:03 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: The Unit Circle Message-Id: <199808101855.OAA27657@keys.com> Subject: Re: AW: mailing cds to the us To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 14:55:31 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <01BDC326.7A87DDE0.mpeters@csi.com> from "Michael Peters" at Aug 8, 98 11:40:21 pm Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"43B0g.0.E4.wAqpr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/986 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com On the page, Gavin says that their prices are cheaper than you mailing them out yourself. This is, of course, untrue for the US, but is certainly cheaper than mailing from Germany. http://www.gavin.com/Gavin/services/mailing.html Kevin > > > There are a few services in the US that will take a bunch of CDs from you > > and mail them to college radio stations (don't know if that is what you > > are doing?) Gavin is the one that sticks out in my mind. > > sounds interesting ... where can I find Gavin? > > * michael peters mpeters@csi.com > * "escape veloopity" electronic guitar loop music > * http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Mpeters > > > > From ???@??? Mon Aug 10 12:33:00 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA03322; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 15:18:41 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 15:18:41 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35CF46C4.32F1@efn.org> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 12:15:16 -0700 From: Peter Harlan Reply-To: pharlan@efn.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: gamalan References: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD051ACF7@migarexch01.maritz.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6O6L1.0.si.fRqpr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/987 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I play in a (Javanese) gamalan ensemble based in Eugene, Oregon. From what I gather, in Indonesia neither musicians nor composers are particularly respected in general. The culture of gamelan is more about cooperation and collaboration than individual virtuosity (although there certainly are virtuoso-caliber players.) Gamelan music results from the shared efforts of all the musicians in the ensemble. In general, the music is esteemed if the players are actively listening to one another, subjugating individual creativity to the demands of the music as a whole, and otherwise remaining true to the long-held performance traditions that inform the music and the culture. It's interesting to note that composition, as we know it, does not usually take place, and is not especially welcomed. Many musical pieces are very old, although new ones do enter the repertoire. But these new pieces, to be well-received, must not depart too radically from anything traditional. -Peter Liebig, Steuart A. wrote: > > I can't > say I know anything about their culture, but I'd bet that those who > master the art of Gamalan are regarded very highly in their society, > and > compensated for it in some way. I bet they don't even have to pay > to > use the PA when they play out. ;-) (sorry, I just can't help being > a > sarcastic bastard) I'd love for our culture to be like that, but > guess > what? It's not. We're capitalists and unless we can find ways to > fund > what we do, we're probably not doing it. > > An interesting (I hope) story . . . a friend of mine was gigging in > (Bali I think). He said that there were two local guys he was playing with > that were doing mostly western music - - pop, rock, r&b, jazz stuff - - > because that's where the money was. These guys were, in comparison to most > of the populace, pretty well-heeled . . . good gear, nice clothes, jewelry, > cars; in other words, the usual materials goods that many get when they are > affluent . . . > > My friend was at a hotel and saw a small Gamalan orchestra > performing for a wedding. Apparently these people were playing for something > like 6 hours (or more?) for very little in comparison to what my friend and > his folks were making for 3-hour club dates. > > I don't know how masterful these people were at their traditional > music, but I'm not sure how "valued" they are . . . more signs of > encroaching western cultural imperialism? > > I agree that things are pretty > sad at the moment. I hope that the free exchange of thoughts via > the > internet will free us from the shackles of BIG BUSINESS IN THE ART > WORLD > by allowing us to distribute our stuff by ourselves. Maybe then the > myth of the superstar will die and we can be regarded as people who > do a > specific job in our society, a highly valued job. > > I concur . . . > > stig From ???@??? Mon Aug 10 15:39:45 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA08370; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 15:52:25 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 15:52:25 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD051ACFA@migarexch01.maritz.com> From: "Liebig, Steuart A." To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Boomerang/EDP different layout Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 14:47:41 -0500 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Resent-Message-ID: <"2Sxs62.0.ru1.Owqpr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/988 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > >Still, though it seems unlikely, I have to ask... > > > >Kim, what do you think of a 100% floor based EDP? > >What would it be like? Would anything have to be sacrificed to fit it in > a > >Boomerang-sized case? > > > >-eric > > Yeah, I'd buy one. > > Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org > > For my money (as an EH16 user), I 'd like to see something along the lines of an EDP that is a table top device. The size of an EH16 or a smaller drum machine (even a little larger) would be optimal . . . with a foot controller that rests on the floor. I'd prefer knobs for some of the parameters (I'm a caveman . . . okay?). I know that it doesn't work on the EDP, but I'd love to have a manual control for manipulation of a loop's time . . . My question (not having seen an EDP for some time) is how much of an EDP's rack size is taken up by the ears? In other words, how much of that 19 inches is "dead space"? Also, assuming that Gibson/Oberheim would want to deal with more R&D (and why would they?), how hard would it be to re-engineer the EDP to have the LEDs on the top along with some manual controls? stig From ???@??? Mon Aug 10 15:39:49 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA10043; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:03:30 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:03:30 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: RE: Musicians/Floor Cleaners Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 12:56:30 -0700 Message-ID: <000001bdc499$36d1c740$1580dacf@stepheng> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: <35CF1426.1686@mdbs.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"Wo7Ut2.0.6I2.u4rpr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/989 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I'm at once reminded of Zappa's take on "Louie, Louie", and how bar/clubowners continue to regard this as a drinks-selling song, that in some cases has become a standard playlist entry. If you can remember it, FZ did a version of it called "Plastic People" that can be found on the "You Can't Do That On Stage" collection. I keep wondering if there's an ambient counterpart to "Louie, Louie", and if I'll ever hear some clubowner shout out, "Play 'Swastika Girls'!" :) Stephen Goodman * It's The Loop Of The Week (this week, Sheri Lewis) EarthLight Studios * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios > Dennis W. Leas [mailto:dennis@mdbs.com] > Sometimes I explain to the bar owner that it is MY job to get > people in the door and it is HIS/HER job to sell them drinks/food/etc. Sometimes they get > my point. Sometimes I find better places to play. From ???@??? Mon Aug 10 15:40:41 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA23139; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:25:23 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:25:23 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199808102120.WAA29876@mailhost.dircon.co.uk> From: "Tim Walker" To: "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 22:18:33 +0100 Reply-To: "Tim Walker" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Standard (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: HD recording with Cakewalk Professional Resent-Message-ID: <"Ria6l2.0.5U5.WHspr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/991 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I've just upgraded my soundcard (SB16 to a Turtle Beach Malibu) and bought Cakewalk Professional v6, as part of my plan to create a multitrack hard disk recording facility on my PC. Do any of you use Cakewalk, and if so, do you have any useful suggestions for HD recording with the package? Note I said **useful** suggestions, which precludes "get a Mac", "use Cubase VST" and other similar items... ;-) Many thanks, Tim. *******************Tim Walker - Staines, UK******************* tawalker@dircon.co.uk - www.users.dircon.co.uk/~tawalker/ The Hall of the Endless Knot - looping, prog-rock guitar, etc. ********www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Amphitheatre/5117******* From ???@??? Mon Aug 10 15:40:46 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA26452; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:47:02 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:47:02 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: PMimlitsch@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:42:06 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Metasynth Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 84 Resent-Message-ID: <"XCpiB3.0.yK6.Wcspr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/992 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Check this out. Especially Eric Wenger's "Possible Places". http://www.metasynth.com/METASYNTH/MUSIC/Musicgallery.html http://www.uisoftware.com/PAGES_ALT/gallery.html http://www.metasynth.com/PPlaces/PossiblePlaces.html From ???@??? Mon Aug 10 15:39:52 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA13771; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:25:33 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:25:33 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199808102021.QAA12971@rosy.yourwebhost.com> From: JBOLDUC@cowanbol.usa.com (Jerry Bolduc) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: unsubscribe Date: Mon, 10 Aug 98 16:03:00 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: LANsoft Interhub (http://www.lansoft.com) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-description: Message Body Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-HOP-COUNT: 1 Sender: JBOLDUC@cowanbol.usa.com Resent-Message-ID: <"u-65Q2.0.wA3.3Prpr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/990 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com i have not subscribed to your mailing list, please take me off. thank you From ???@??? Mon Aug 10 23:48:29 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id UAA14695; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 20:10:46 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 20:10:46 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD051ACFA@migarexch01.maritz.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:05:22 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: RE: Boomerang/EDP different layout Resent-Message-ID: <"xCUpI.0.EV3.bjupr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/993 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 12:47 PM -0700 8/10/98, Liebig, Steuart A. wrote: > > My question (not having seen an EDP for some time) is how much of an >EDP's rack size is taken up by the ears? In other words, how much of that 19 >inches is "dead space"? Also, assuming that Gibson/Oberheim would want to >deal with more R&D (and why would they?), how hard would it be to >re-engineer the EDP to have the LEDs on the top along with some manual >controls? > You could probably do this yourself to an echoplex pretty easily. without the front panel, the rest of the unit is 17 3/8" wide x 6" deep. The width is pretty typical for racks, I think. The Echoplex's front panel, controls, and PCB are one assembly, connected to the main board by some flat cables. The cables have a reasonable amount of slack in them, so you could take the 6 screws out of the front and rotate the whole thing to sit on the top, making it effectively a table top. You'd need to remove the top piece of sheet metal or cut it to leave a space for the front panel to sit. not a bad idea really, I might do that to one of mine..... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Mon Aug 10 23:48:34 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id UAA18157; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 20:37:33 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 20:37:33 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD051AD04@migarexch01.maritz.com> From: "Liebig, Steuart A." To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Boomerang/EDP different layout Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 19:33:51 -0500 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Resent-Message-ID: <"GeaHV2.0.8K4.c6vpr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/994 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > You could probably do this yourself to an echoplex pretty easily. > If I weren't kinda of an electronics dweeb . . . :-) > without the front panel, the rest of the unit is 17 3/8" wide x 6" deep. > The width is pretty typical for racks, I think. > How much of the box (without the rack ears) is really EDP? In other words, could you fit the guts of it into another, smaller box? > not a bad idea really, I might do that to > one of mine..... > cool, let us know how that goes. . . I guess that the neo-luddite in me still wants some knobs tho' . . . stig From ???@??? Mon Aug 10 23:48:41 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id WAA31435; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 22:25:48 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 22:25:48 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <19980811021853.26977.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 19:18:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Bret Subject: Re: RE(2): Echoplex memory mess... To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"jyItC2.0.8W7.jgwpr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/995 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com If the unit works as you say ("the unit worked fine with the supplied 50secs of memory"), fine with one set of simms, and not another then the simms are to be suspected, not the EDP. I have a wide variety of mixed used simms in my 2 EDPs, no issues. Defective or damaged ram is not an uncommon problem (I am in volume manufacturing of storage devices) . There is nothing to sort out, since the EDP works fine with the 50 sec of memory. The EDP works, the new Simms don't. bret Claude Lassonde wrote: > > What a mess... The service people at the company should post comments over > here to sort things out... Any Gibson-Oberheim-Echoplex tech around? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Douglas Lawrence [mailto:douglas-lawrence@home.com] > > Sent: dimanche, aot 09, 1998 01:44 > > To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > > Subject: RE: Echoplex memory > > > > > > My Echoplex is now back at Oberheim being checked out for the > > same reasons. > > I haven't heard back from them what the problem was. > > > > >>-----Original Message----- > > >>From: Marc Roche [mailto:govinda@cyber-dyne.com] > > >>Sent: Saturday, August 08, 1998 10:16 PM > > >>To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > > >>Subject: Re: Echoplex memory > > >> > > >> > > >>Hi all, > > >> > > >>I just sent my new (7/1) EDP back to Oberheim yesterday. Tried > > >>two different > > >>batches of simms from two different retailers and neither of them > > >>worked (the > > >>unit worked fine with the supplied 50secs of memory). Could I > > >>have been so > > >>unlucky as to get bad simms twice? Hope to be getting an answer soon. > > >>Kim Flint wrote: > > >> > > >>> It works with parity or non-parity simms, and it doesn't matter > > >>if you mix > > >>> them or max the memory or whatever. (the parity bit is > > >>ignored.) That's in > > >>> the echoplex FAQ on the LD website. The problems a few people > > >>had seemed to > > >>> be from some bad batch of simms, and nobody has reported > > >>anything like it > > >>> since. In general it's always worked fine with any type simm > > >>out there, and > > >>> there isn't any known problem with fully loaded memory. I've > > heard that > > >>> reported a couple times and it always turned out to be > > >>something else. (like > > >>> a bad simm...) > > >>> > > >>> kim > > > > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From ???@??? Mon Aug 10 23:48:44 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id XAA04280; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 23:15:10 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 23:15:10 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Marzzz@aol.com Message-ID: <2eeeb408.35cfb5e5@aol.com> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 23:09:24 EDT To: tawalker@dircon.co.uk, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: HD recording with Cakewalk Professional Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Resent-Message-ID: <"fj1sc3.0.Ty.cPxpr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/997 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 8/10/98 4:24:39 PM, you wrote: >Note I said **useful** suggestions, which precludes "get a Mac", "use >Cubase VST" and other similar items... ;-) Getting a Mac is a useful suggestion, sure..... Marshall From ???@??? Tue Aug 11 12:33:29 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA01018; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 13:20:14 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 13:20:14 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Sender: mpeters@csi.com Message-ID: <01BDC55C.1D29E570.mpeters@csi.com> From: Michael Peters To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: AW: Metasynth Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 08:11:34 +0200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-Mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"GBo9e.0.-8.go7qr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1012 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > Check this out. Especially Eric Wenger's "Possible Places". > http://www.metasynth.com/METASYNTH/MUSIC/Musicgallery.html > http://www.uisoftware.com/PAGES_ALT/gallery.html > http://www.metasynth.com/PPlaces/PossiblePlaces.html wow ... very cool stuff indeed. And guess what: This software is only for Mac! * michael peters mpeters@csi.com * "escape veloopity" electronic guitar loop music * http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Mpeters From ???@??? Tue Aug 11 12:31:59 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id GAA13390; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 06:39:14 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 06:39:14 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 06:35:18 -0400 From: Andreas Willers Subject: RE: Boomerang/EDP different layout Sender: Andreas Willers To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Message-ID: <199808110635_MC2-55B8-D50B@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"7A9Bz2.0.2D3.7x1qr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/998 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Yo, I love hands-on analog control via knobs as well! And while the EDP has a lot of very clever features I find it's biggest disadvantage (correct me if I'm wrong, I've never actually seen one) the lack of pitch control (starting with that classic Les Paul 8va/8vb tape speed stuff). For my music this (and reverse play) is inevitably more important than midi-syncs etc., because it gives the audience a clear perspective: yes, this is a technical repetition/variation of previously performed musical material. I insert the Rang in my effects loop and generally hate flimsy ext. power units. Still I like to be able to decide 'do I really need the Rang tonight?' while I pack up for the gig, even depending on my mood that day. Keeps my rack portable. The 'Thru Mute' can be a real ear burner at the soundcheck though, since it tends to toggle during transfer. Ciao, Andreas From ???@??? Tue Aug 11 12:32:09 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id HAA16975; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 07:06:21 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 07:06:21 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <001801bdc516$dc35aee0$d0084382@hovard> From: "Thomas Whni" To: "Tim Walker" , Subject: Re: HD recording with Cakewalk Professional Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 12:57:38 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"KBLJC.0.V14.oI2qr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1000 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com hi Tim , I have only ONE piece of advice (and it`s not really related to what you asked,sorry): Get a SCSI drive. IDE drives are too slow , I learned that the hard way. :-) Yours , Thomas W From ???@??? Tue Aug 11 12:32:08 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id HAA16961; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 07:06:07 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 07:06:07 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 11:59:55 +0100 (BST) From: Jim Carter To: list server loopers delight Subject: RE: Echoplex memory mess... (???) In-Reply-To: <000101bdc536$d58dd570$87500218@cc1006472-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"6jZGW.0.914.iI2qr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/999 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com On Tue, 11 Aug 1998, Douglas Lawrence wrote: > Some typical problems I saw ... when I hit overdub, the EDP would > sporadically switch into multiply mode on it's own, then it would hang. > Sometimes I couldn't get the EDP out of overdub without hitting the switch > several times. Sometimes the screen would turn into giberish after letting a > loop run for a few minutes. > Wow, that sounds exactly like the problem I had with my EDP before I found a bad solder joint on the board. Interestingly the same problem has just reappeared, I think, due to poor earthing on a new rack case + very warm dry air and a nylon carpet in my living room. At first I thought the unit was overheating (again) but just putting my hand on the case to feel the temperatue was sufficient to trigger a reset, ditto contact with the rack rails. All this makes me wonder if certain SIM devices are more prone to static discharge than others (?) Jim Carter From ???@??? Tue Aug 11 12:32:21 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id IAA27165; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 08:50:04 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 08:50:04 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <19980811124538.3025.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [207.94.66.242] From: "Matt Rowe" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, tawalker@dircon.co.uk Subject: Re: HD recording with Cakewalk Professional Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 05:45:38 PDT Resent-Message-ID: <"9q5Sv1.0.rV6.Cr3qr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1001 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Tim, I've been working with cakewalk for a while now. I just upgraded from version 6 to 7, and now I'm doing alot more with the audio capabilities. Suggestions: 1) I've found the cakewalk web site (http://www.cakewalk.com) extremely valuable. They have a news server set up there, where actual employees of the company will publically answer questions. It is quite a unique and outstanding effort to improve the usability of their programs. If you can't get access to it through your internet provider, you can read it through dejanews (http://www.dejanews.com). 2) You might want to make sure that you bought "cakewalk pro *audio*" and not just "cakewalk pro" if you plan on doing multitrack recording. 3) Get a good pair of *comfortable* headphones. I like AKG's. 4) When you install the program, install the tutorials. They can be helpful if you're patient enough to sit there an watch them. 5) Get a .wav editor that's easy to work with. Cool edit and sound forge are pretty good, and I think they have "budget" editions. The .wav editor will work as a plug in that will allow you to get your loops to the right lengths, as well as more powerful editing capabilities. 6) Get some sort of removable media drive. I think the best way to go is with a CD-R, so when you're finished, you can burn your own LP's. Blank CD-R's run about $1 to $1.50 (US) when you buy more than a dozen or so. I'm sure you know that recording audio takes tons of hard drive space. 7) Run all your power cables separate (at least half a meter) from the audio cables to decrease hum. If they have to cross, do so at right angles. 8) Keep the CPU as far away from your audio equipment as possible. Again, this will decrease hum. 9) Try to get all your electricity from the same outlet. This will (you guessed it) decrease hum. 10) Make sure you're having fun. Don't get frustrated when things aren't working correctly (they won't at first). Use the glitches musically, because after all, the music is what this is for. See what you've gotten yourself into? Matt p.s. don't get a mac. and i'm test driving cubase vst, so i can't comment on that. >From: "Tim Walker" >To: "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" >Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 22:18:33 +0100 >Reply-To: "Tim Walker" >Subject: HD recording with Cakewalk Professional > >I've just upgraded my soundcard (SB16 to a Turtle Beach Malibu) and >bought Cakewalk Professional v6, as part of my plan to create a >multitrack hard disk recording facility on my PC. Do any of you use >Cakewalk, and if so, do you have any useful suggestions for HD >recording with the package? > >Note I said **useful** suggestions, which precludes "get a Mac", "use >Cubase VST" and other similar items... ;-) > >Many thanks, >Tim. > >*******************Tim Walker - Staines, UK******************* > tawalker@dircon.co.uk - www.users.dircon.co.uk/~tawalker/ >The Hall of the Endless Knot - looping, prog-rock guitar, etc. >********www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Amphitheatre/5117******* > > > The price I pay for free, private email is the following commercial message... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Tue Aug 11 12:32:34 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id JAA31926 for kflint@annihilist.com; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 09:30:32 -0400 Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 09:30:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-From_: JBOLDUC@cowanbol.usa.com Tue Aug 11 09:30:29 1998 Received: from mork.lansoft.net (mork.lansoft.net [206.101.106.242]) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) with ESMTP id JAA31907 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 09:30:29 -0400 Message-Id: <199808111330.JAA31907@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Received: from reliant.lansoft.net ([206.101.106.11]) by exidor.lansoft.net with SMTP id 00555853; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 09:33:13 Eastern Daylight Time From: JBOLDUC@cowanbol.usa.com (Jerry Bolduc), mail@interhub.com (Liebig, Steuart A.) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: RE: Boomerang/EDP different layout, RE: Boomerang/EDP different layout Old-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 98 09:08:00 Old-Return-receipt-to: JBOLDUC@cowanbol.usa.com (Jerry Bolduc), mail@interhub.com (Liebig, Steuart A.) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: LANsoft Interhub (http://www.lansoft.com) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-description: Message Body Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-HOP-COUNT: 1 Sender: JBOLDUC@cowanbol.usa.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Envelope-To: Loopers-Delight ======== Original Message ======== > >Still, though it seems unlikely, I have to ask... > > > >Kim, what do you think of a 100% floor based EDP? > >What would it be like? Would anything have to be sacrificed to fit it in > a > >Boomerang-sized case? > > > >-eric > > Yeah, I'd buy one. > > Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org > > For my money (as an EH16 user), I 'd like to see something along the lines of an EDP that is a table top device. The size of an EH16 or a smaller drum machine (even a little larger) would be optimal . . . with a foot controller that rests on the floor. I'd prefer knobs for some of the parameters (I'm a caveman . . . okay?). I know that it doesn't work on the EDP, but I'd love to have a manual control for manipulation of a loop's time . . . My question (not having seen an EDP for some time) is how much of an EDP's rack size is taken up by the ears? In other words, how much of that 19 inches is "dead space"? Also, assuming that Gibson/Oberheim would want to deal with more R&D (and why would they?), how hard would it be to re-engineer the EDP to have the LEDs on the top along with some manual controls? stig ======== Fwd by: Jerry Bolduc ======== please stop sending me e-mails, this is my place of business and i do not have the time to read them. thaank you From ???@??? Mon Aug 10 23:48:43 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id WAA01785; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 22:51:25 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 22:51:25 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Douglas Lawrence" To: Subject: RE: Echoplex memory mess... (???) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 10:46:33 -0400 Message-ID: <000101bdc536$d58dd570$87500218@cc1006472-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <19980811021853.26977.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"s7kIU.0.LL.P3xpr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/996 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I'm not saying what the issue was, bad memory or otherwise, I just know that my EDP was not in great working condition. I noticed the problem started after I installed the new memory, then when I switched back, I still had problems. It could have been a cold solder made worse by flexing the board when I installed the new memory, I don't know ... I'm not going to make any judgements until I hear back from Oberheim. My only complaint is that I've been without my EDP for over month now, which is not Oberheim's fault. I mistakenly took it to a "qualified service center" when I should have shipped it directly to Oberheim to begin with. I have an e-mail in Mike Ayers and I should hear back soon. Some typical problems I saw ... when I hit overdub, the EDP would sporadically switch into multiply mode on it's own, then it would hang. Sometimes I couldn't get the EDP out of overdub without hitting the switch several times. Sometimes the screen would turn into giberish after letting a loop run for a few minutes. On Kim's advice, I took the EDP in for service and hope to get back a 100% working EDP. I also sent the suspect memory along with the EDP to see if that was possibly the issue. I hope to get it back soon ... >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Bret [mailto:echoplex@yahoo.com] >>Sent: Monday, August 10, 1998 10:19 PM >>To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >>Subject: Re: RE(2): Echoplex memory mess... >> >> >>If the unit works as you say ("the unit worked fine with the supplied >>50secs of memory"), fine with one set of simms, and not another then >>the simms are to be suspected, not the EDP. I have a wide variety of >>mixed used simms in my 2 EDPs, no issues. >> >>Defective or damaged ram is not an uncommon problem (I am in volume >>manufacturing of storage devices) . There is nothing to sort out, >>since the EDP works fine with the 50 sec of memory. The EDP works, >>the new Simms don't. >>bret >> >>Claude Lassonde wrote: >>> >>> What a mess... The service people at the company should post >>comments over >>> here to sort things out... Any Gibson-Oberheim-Echoplex tech around? >>> >>> >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> > From: Douglas Lawrence [mailto:douglas-lawrence@home.com] >>> > Sent: dimanche, aot 09, 1998 01:44 >>> > To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >>> > Subject: RE: Echoplex memory >>> > >>> > >>> > My Echoplex is now back at Oberheim being checked out for the >>> > same reasons. >>> > I haven't heard back from them what the problem was. From ???@??? Tue Aug 11 12:32:47 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id KAA10551; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 10:52:52 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 10:52:52 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <35D05AA8.37C7@mdbs.com> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 09:52:24 -0500 From: "Dennis W. Leas" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; U) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Boomerang/EDP different layout References: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD051ACFA@migarexch01.maritz.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"md9vU2.0.oT2.Pe5qr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1002 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I respectfully point out that this represents "guitar-centric" thinking. As a percussionist, I would find a floor based EDP to be extremely inconvenient. I don't have a single "workstation" performance area where I can cluster stomp boxes. A highly attractive feature of the EDP, to me, is a centralized rack-mount unit with distributed footswitches. Any keyboardists out there? - Dennis Leas >Kim, what do you think of a 100% floor based EDP? >What would it be like? Would anything have to be sacrificed to fit it in a >Boomerang-sized case? > >-eric From ???@??? Tue Aug 11 12:32:50 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA12550; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 11:05:04 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 11:05:04 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: GRAIGORY2@aol.com Message-ID: <9539fa3b.35d05c6a@aol.com> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 10:59:53 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: New subject Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 62 Resent-Message-ID: <"q5Hjp1.0.sw2.Tp5qr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1003 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Currently... I make all of my music with a PC, old records\cds, and a drum machine... Right now, I have SOUNDBLASTER16 soundcard (soon to be upgraded to 64 AWE), I use GOLDWAVE for looping and editing..., and an ALESIS SR-16 drum machine (soon to change to BOSS DR-5).. I want to be able to do ALL of my work at home, from creating beats, to mastering the finished songs to CDR... anyone have any suggestions as far as equiptment and\or software? peace From ???@??? Tue Aug 11 12:32:56 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA18033; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 11:41:25 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 11:41:25 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <98Aug11.103034cdt.26885@gateway.gibson.com> From: Pat Murphy To: douglas-lawrence@home.com, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, Dino Cattaneo Subject: RE: Echoplex memory mess... (???) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 10:34:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"iOoTP3.0.zD4.sK6qr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1004 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Greetings from Oberheim Regarding the memory mess. This may or may not help but is worth checking before sending your Echoplex back for repair. 1) It works great with factory memory. 2) The memory is upgraded. The Echoplex doesn't work right. 3) The original memory is reinstalled and it still acts funky. Some of the malfunctioning seems to occur after touching the or jarring the Echoplex. Here is a possible solution. There are 7 screws holding the top on the Echoplex. There are 4 on the back, 1 on each side and 1 on the front. All of these screws should be the same length except the one on the right side (looking from the front of the Echoplex). That screw should be just a fraction shorter than the rest. Unless you are really looking for it, all the screws appear to be the same length. When a long screw is put into the right side, it can come into contact with the core of the transformer. It seems to mess with the magnetic field somehow and it makes the Echoplex act kind of spastic. Jarring and touching the Echoplex can make it reset and act unpredictably if a long screw is used by mistake. This may or may not be the problem but you might check out. Hope this helps. Thanks Pat Murphy Oberheim Sales -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Lawrence [mailto:douglas-lawrence@home.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 1998 9:47 AM To: pmurphy@gibson.com; dcattane@gibson.com Subject: RE: Echoplex memory mess... (???) I'm not saying what the issue was, bad memory or otherwise, I just know that my EDP was not in great working condition. I noticed the problem started after I installed the new memory, then when I switched back, I still had problems. It could have been a cold solder made worse by flexing the board when I installed the new memory, I don't know ... I'm not going to make any judgements until I hear back from Oberheim. My only complaint is that I've been without my EDP for over month now, which is not Oberheim's fault. I mistakenly took it to a "qualified service center" when I should have shipped it directly to Oberheim to begin with. I have an e-mail in Mike Ayers and I should hear back soon. Some typical problems I saw ... when I hit overdub, the EDP would sporadically switch into multiply mode on it's own, then it would hang. Sometimes I couldn't get the EDP out of overdub without hitting the switch several times. Sometimes the screen would turn into giberish after letting a loop run for a few minutes. On Kim's advice, I took the EDP in for service and hope to get back a 100% working EDP. I also sent the suspect memory along with the EDP to see if that was possibly the issue. I hope to get it back soon ... >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Bret [mailto:echoplex@yahoo.com] >>Sent: Monday, August 10, 1998 10:19 PM >>To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >>Subject: Re: RE(2): Echoplex memory mess... >> >> >>If the unit works as you say ("the unit worked fine with the supplied >>50secs of memory"), fine with one set of simms, and not another then >>the simms are to be suspected, not the EDP. I have a wide variety of >>mixed used simms in my 2 EDPs, no issues. >> >>Defective or damaged ram is not an uncommon problem (I am in volume >>manufacturing of storage devices) . There is nothing to sort out, >>since the EDP works fine with the 50 sec of memory. The EDP works, >>the new Simms don't. >>bret >> >>Claude Lassonde wrote: >>> >>> What a mess... The service people at the company should post >>comments over >>> here to sort things out... Any Gibson-Oberheim-Echoplex tech around? >>> >>> >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> > From: Douglas Lawrence [mailto:douglas-lawrence@home.com] >>> > Sent: dimanche, aot 09, 1998 01:44 >>> > To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >>> > Subject: RE: Echoplex memory >>> > >>> > >>> > My Echoplex is now back at Oberheim being checked out for the >>> > same reasons. >>> > I haven't heard back from them what the problem was. From ???@??? Tue Aug 11 12:33:01 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA20781; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 11:57:39 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 11:57:39 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <98Aug11.104403cdt.26887@gateway.gibson.com> From: Dino Cattaneo To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: Echoplex memory answers Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 10:48:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"zI7Kl2.0.zo4.eX6qr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1005 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hello everyone. There have been some questions about memory upgrades for the Echoplex. Pat Murphy has already sent a response out, here are a few more things you should be aware of. First let me point out that the number of Echoplexes that have had memory problems is very low: we had only 5 Echoplexes sent to us for memory problems in the last three months. (This number does not include repairs done locally). Also, since we learned of the problems encountered by Douglas Lawrence and Marc Roche, Mike Ayers, our technical/customer service expert will get in touch with them and will follow up with them to get their problems solved. Marc and Douglas, if you haven't heard from him, contact him at the address below. Let me remind you that all Echoplexes go out with 51 seconds, and we do not normally upgrade the units, because it would become quite expensive for the customers. Also, it has been our experience that Echoplex users and loopers in general are more technologically sophisticated than other musicians, and they have no problem with a DIY upgrade. However, we have done some memory upgrades of the Echoplex for our endorsees, and you can always talk to your dealers about custom ordering a fully ugraded version. That said, I asked Mike to prepare this piece of advice on memory upgrades and the type of problems customers call about. If you are planning to upgrade the memory and want more specific answers, contact him. He is there to help you. E-mail: obie@gibson.com Phone (toll free) (877) OBERHEIM We do appreciate your feedback, positive AND negative (how can we serve you better if we don't know what's wrong?). Keep writing to us. Now, here is what Mike had to say about memory replacements: Following is a brief set-up on the memory chips for upgrading the memory of the Echoplex. The Echoplex comes with 50 seconds of memory, which is provided by 4 chips containing 1 meg of memory each. The memory can be expanded to a maximum of 198 seconds by replacing the 1 meg chips with 4 meg chips. The chips which are used are standard 30 pin simms chips, either parity or non-parity (either will work) and are available at most computer supply stores. The price usually ranges from 10.00 to 20.00 per chip. Naturally, the higher the quality of the chip, the better it will perform in the Echoplex. We do not recommend any particular brand, but we do recommend that the chips be 120 nanoseconds or better. Also, you should always replace an even number of chips, that is, either replace two chips for 99 seconds of memory, or all four chips for 198 seconds of memory. Never replace an odd number of chips. When replacing your memory chips, simply remove the memory chips in the Echoplex by sliding them out, and slide the replacement chips in exactly the same way as the old chips were. Always make sure that the chips are firmly in place, as loose memory chips will cause the Echoplex to malfunction in a variety of ways. It is our experience that when customers call about malfunctions caused by the memory upgrades, the problems are very simple to fix. They fall within two categories: 1) Faulty replacement chips. As pointed out by Bret in his erlier posting today, this problem is more common than you would expect. If a chip you installed is causing a problem, return it and get a replacement. Many times you will find that with a new chip the unit works perfectly. Remember, we recommend that the chips be of high quality, and 120 nanoseconds or better. If they are not, then the response can be affected 2) Installation problems. The most common are: (a) Loosely installed chips. If the memory chips become loose in the Echoplex, the memory will not function, and it can cause the unit to malfunction in other ways. (b). Chips installed backwards. The chips should always be installed facing the same way as the original chips. Finally, there have been some instances where wire or solder have been knocked loose or detached during installation. Careful replacement of the memory chips should keep this from happening. ======================================= Oberheim Dino Cattaneo Product Manager www.oberheim.com From ???@??? Tue Aug 11 12:33:12 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA23857; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 12:15:04 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 12:15:04 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <001b01bdc53f$bfe96f00$0d01a8c0@Remote> From: "Steve Lauder" To: Subject: Fw: New Subject Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 16:49:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"VJOQW2.0.ki5.3r6qr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1008 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com This subject's not exactly new, but I have some hints. The external drum machine, (I'm not farmiliar with either of the ones you've mentioned) I take it you want to run it through your PC. Unfortunately, the only way you'll be able to do this is to use the drum machine as a MIDI control unit, but to be honest, the drum samples that come with the AWE 64 are pretty crappy. I'd suggest hard disk recording your beats and inserting them into your sequencer as audio files. Alternatively, you could upgrade the memory on your AWE 64 card, and import your own drum samples - this will probably be easiest and cheapest (24mb upgrade costs around 100 I believe) way to achieve professional results. I know it's expensive, but Cool Edit Professional is the best sample editor around. It also has some sequencing capabilities, but I'm not sure as to how effective the sequencer is compared to Cubase VST or Cakewalk. As far as recording onto CD-R is concerned, the best way I can suggest is to export your songs as WAV files from your sequencer, buy a copy of ADAPTEC Easy CD-PRO, which has a facility to convert WAV files to standard audio tracks, and bobs your uncle - you can burn as many CDs as you like. I realise this help is pretty vague, but there are plenty of people on this list with way more expertise on the subject who'll be able to fill in the blanks, or correct me where I'm wrong. By the way - I own an AWE 64, which is fine for my needs, but they do have a tendency to pick up quite a bit of interference from processors, hard drives, and CD-ROM drives. As mentioned yesterday, position the card as far away from all these as possible, or consider another sound card such as the Turtle Beach. Hope this helps, Steve Lauder > From ???@??? Tue Aug 11 12:33:08 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA21343; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 12:00:04 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 12:00:04 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Legion@voicenet.com Message-ID: <35D06909.5373@voicenet.com> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 11:53:45 -0400 Reply-To: Legion@voicenet.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.02 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Boomerang/EDP different layout References: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD051ACFA@migarexch01.maritz.com> <35D05AA8.37C7@mdbs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jvxQb3.0.0-4.eb6qr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1006 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Dennis W. Leas wrote: > I respectfully point out that this represents "guitar-centric" thinking. As a > percussionist, I would find a floor based EDP to be extremely inconvenient. I don't have > a single "workstation" performance area where I can cluster stomp boxes. A highly > attractive feature of the EDP, to me, is a centralized rack-mount unit with distributed > footswitches. Any keyboardists out there? As a bit of everything (keys, drum kit, Guitar) I can say the Rack mount w/separate floor unit is the way to go for me. I can always throw the small single sapce unit somewhere in the gear for live shows and if I want to mess with the basic fuctions I stomp on the pedal. Quite frankly, I used the EDP exclusively in a rack live and have never used the pedal when playing keys or making noise loops, live samples, etc. I bought a pedal solely so I could use it while playing bass and guitar and have only messed around with this a bit in the studio. I guess that kinda confirms it's "Guitar Centric" uses (in my case anyway) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- HELP WANTED PRODUCTIONS - Http://www.voicenet.com/~legion "Bringing you the best in Organic Electronic music since we started..." Home of the Unusual Instrument and Recording Gallery with pictures and info of Tube recorders, Omnichords, weird guitars, Casios, and more. From ???@??? Tue Aug 11 12:33:13 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA24271; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 12:17:04 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 12:17:04 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD051AD06@migarexch01.maritz.com> From: "Liebig, Steuart A." To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Boomerang/EDP different layout Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 11:12:23 -0500 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Resent-Message-ID: <"6WGki.0.dn5.js6qr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1009 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I don't see them as being mutually exclusive. I see it merely as another format for the EDP. > -----Original Message----- > From: Dennis W. Leas [SMTP:dennis@mdbs.com] > Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 1998 07:52 > To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Subject: Re: Boomerang/EDP different layout > > I respectfully point out that this represents "guitar-centric" thinking. > As a > percussionist, I would find a floor based EDP to be extremely > inconvenient. I don't have > a single "workstation" performance area where I can cluster stomp boxes. > A highly > attractive feature of the EDP, to me, is a centralized rack-mount unit > with distributed > footswitches. Any keyboardists out there? > > - Dennis Leas > > >Kim, what do you think of a 100% floor based EDP? > >What would it be like? Would anything have to be sacrificed to fit it in > a > >Boomerang-sized case? > > > >-eric From ???@??? Tue Aug 11 12:33:27 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA29818; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 12:55:59 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 12:55:59 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 09:45:49 -0700 Message-ID: <0010D80E.----@wj.com> From: Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle) Subject: Re[2]: Boomerang/EDP different layout To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" , "Liebig; Steuart A." Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"PoDHL3.0.997.SR7qr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1010 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I'm getting tired of all yoose musician's believing that all of these tools should be designed just for you! What about us non-musicians and audience members? I want super large LCD readouts so I can read along and stay up to speed wit wutsup in your rig... Talk about musician-centric... -mb "Liebig; Steuart A." at INTERNET I don't see them as being mutually exclusive. I see it merely as another format for the EDP. > Dennis W. Leas [SMTP:dennis@mdbs.com] > I respectfully point out that this represents "guitar-centric" thinking. > As a > percussionist, I would find a floor based EDP to be extremely > inconvenient. I don't have > a single "workstation" performance area where I can cluster stomp boxes. > A highly > attractive feature of the EDP, to me, is a centralized rack-mount unit > with distributed > footswitches. Any keyboardists out there? > > - Dennis Leas > > >Kim, what do you think of a 100% floor based EDP? > >What would it be like? Would anything have to be sacrificed to fit it in > a > >Boomerang-sized case? > > > >-eric From ???@??? Tue Aug 11 16:03:32 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA18718; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 19:04:58 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 19:04:58 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD051AD0B@migarexch01.maritz.com> From: "Liebig, Steuart A." To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: more Boomerang/EDP different layout Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 11:58:03 -0500 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Resent-Message-ID: <"rszar2.0.kQ4.xqCqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1019 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Further Though on This: Actually what I want is not so different from what an EDP ALREADY is. I just don't want it to be a rack device, or make a rack device that is somewhat smaller and has removable rack ears that can be easily made into a table top device, and I'd like it to use the same foot controller interface . . . with additional manual control knobs . . . how does this affect you adversely? > > Dennis W. Leas [SMTP:dennis@mdbs.com] > > I respectfully point out that this represents "guitar-centric" thinking. > > As a > > percussionist, I would find a floor based EDP to be extremely > > inconvenient. I don't have > > a single "workstation" performance area where I can cluster stomp boxes. > > A highly > > attractive feature of the EDP, to me, is a centralized rack-mount unit > > with distributed > > footswitches. Any keyboardists out there? > > > > - Dennis Leas > > > > >Kim, what do you think of a 100% floor based EDP? > > >What would it be like? Would anything have to be sacrificed to fit it > in > > a > > >Boomerang-sized case? > > > > > >-eric From ???@??? Tue Aug 11 12:33:09 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA22152; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 12:04:05 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 12:04:05 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 09:58:31 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: dtapia@unoco.edu (Douglas Tapia) Subject: Re: Boomerang/EDP different layout Resent-Message-ID: <"e62u_.0.HC5.nf6qr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1007 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >I respectfully point out that this represents "guitar-centric" thinking. As a >percussionist, I would find a floor based EDP to be extremely >inconvenient. I don't have >a single "workstation" performance area where I can cluster stomp boxes. >A highly >attractive feature of the EDP, to me, is a centralized rack-mount unit >with distributed >footswitches. Any keyboardists out there? > >- Dennis Leas > Yeah Dennis, I'm a keybordist, and I agree. I'm still working on a way to use ANY footswitches with a Hammond. Lets see: With one foot I'll ride the volume, with the other I'll toggel the Leslie, with my other two feet, I'll play the pedals, and with my fifth foot, I'll. . . Or maybe not .-} Doug From ???@??? Tue Aug 11 12:33:28 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA00013; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 13:13:31 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 13:13:31 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199808111658.JAA08772@scv3.apple.com> Subject: Multiple loops on the EDP Date: Tue, 11 Aug 98 11:59:50 -0600 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"3uEGF.0.7w7.Ti7qr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1011 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Kevin wrote: >Uh, no. If the EDP had the multiple different length loops, it would have >been the extra needed justification for me to buy it and spend the time >with it. My recollection is that the EDP will allow you to have multiple loops of different lengths, but you can only play one at a time. My understanding of digital playback systems is that playback of multiple independent "tracks" (loops in this case) requires more processing power, driving the price up. Travis Hartnett From ???@??? Tue Aug 11 12:33:34 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA12517; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 14:41:17 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 14:41:17 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: FW: Musicians/Floor Cleaners, Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 11:15:23 -0700 Message-ID: <000001bdc556$eaf92de0$3e2dfea9@stepheng> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"gudfL2.0.Dx2.tz8qr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1013 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I admit it's beginning to get a bit much for even me... What's the problem with the newsletter software? Now *I* get complaints because of it, as below. > -----Original Message----- > From: Jerry Bolduc [mailto:JBOLDUC@cowanbol.usa.com] > Sent: None > To: sgoodman@earthlight.net > Subject: RE: Musicians/Floor Cleaners, > > > RE: Musicians/Floor Cleaners > Date: Tue, 11 Aug 98 09:03:00 > Return-receipt-to: JBOLDUC@cowanbol.usa.com (Jerry Bolduc), > mail@interhub.com (Stephen P. Goodman) > Mime-Version: 1.0 > X-Mailer: LANsoft Interhub (http://www.lansoft.com) > Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > Content-description: Message Body > Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > X-HOP-COUNT: 1 > Sender: JBOLDUC@cowanbol.usa.com > X-UIDL: 849dd870bfd3b31ca22bb57c7be40de9 > > ======== Original Message ======== > > I'm at once reminded of Zappa's take on "Louie, Louie", and how > bar/clubowners continue to regard this as a drinks-selling > song, that in > some cases has become a standard playlist entry. If you can > remember it, FZ > did a version of it called "Plastic People" that can be found > on the "You > Can't Do That On Stage" collection. > > I keep wondering if there's an ambient counterpart to "Louie, > Louie", and if > I'll ever hear some clubowner shout out, "Play 'Swastika Girls'!" :) > > Stephen Goodman * It's The Loop Of The Week (this week, Sheri Lewis) > EarthLight Studios * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios > > > Dennis W. Leas [mailto:dennis@mdbs.com] > > Sometimes I explain to the bar owner that it is MY job to get > > people in the door and it is HIS/HER job to sell them > drinks/food/etc. > Sometimes they get > > my point. Sometimes I find better places to play. > ======== Fwd by: Jerry Bolduc ======== > please stop sending me e-mails! This is my place of businees > and i do not > have the time to read these > > > From ???@??? Tue Aug 11 12:33:43 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA15297; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 14:58:03 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 14:58:03 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: RE: New subject Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 11:50:28 -0700 Message-ID: <000201bdc559$346f1be0$3e2dfea9@stepheng> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: <9539fa3b.35d05c6a@aol.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"vH235.0.Ub3.xD9qr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1014 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com You might want to check on the S/N ratio (or perhaps also shielding) of the major sound cards... Some of the folks on this list have suggested that the AWE32 is more noisy than others. I don't personally buy into the Old Studio kind of thinking that goes into a $400 sound card setup, as I've seen how badly implemented (and as useable) some migrations from Old Studio Hardware (as in the case of the unfortunate RADAR) have gone. I have yet to make the jump myself -- I've been using a SB32, a notch below the AWE in terms of tech specs, but fairly quiet and not the generator of complaints about hiss that one would expect, given some comments here. I would advise ONE BIG ITEM though, that I've found to be a major problem in integrating all this fun stuff: make sure your monitor's not generating all your noise. You can tell this by the sound your speakers make when you move them (or sometimes their unshielded cables)closer to the monitor, or (if the monitor is particularly noisy EMF-wise) the CPU. Since much of what we do as either musicians or computing hu-mans has to do with seeing AND hearing from the same direction during composition, this can be a problem in terms of placement of equipment, and so forth. There's not really an equivalent to a direct box for this yet, either.. Stephen Goodman * It's The Loop Of The Week (Sheri Lewis, 1933-1998)! EarthLight Studios * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios > -----Original Message----- > From: GRAIGORY2@aol.com [mailto:GRAIGORY2@aol.com] > Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 1998 8:00 AM > To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Subject: New subject > > > Currently... I make all of my music with a PC, old > records\cds, and a drum > machine... > > Right now, I have SOUNDBLASTER16 soundcard (soon to be > upgraded to 64 AWE), I > use GOLDWAVE for looping and editing..., and an ALESIS SR-16 > drum machine > (soon to change to BOSS DR-5).. > > I want to be able to do ALL of my work at home, from creating > beats, to > mastering the finished songs to CDR... anyone have any > suggestions as far as > equiptment and\or software? > > peace > From ???@??? Tue Aug 11 21:00:02 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id WAA14649; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 22:38:59 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 22:38:59 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 21:02:02 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: Rack Mounting TV'S Resent-Message-ID: <"IIDeM3.0.pV3.k-Fqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1031 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com On 8?11/98 Kim FLint said: >I've been planning to put a TV in my rack for years. I figure that will >help most people relate better to my music, make them feel more like >they're at home. :-) Damn, I just spent about 8-10 hours last week, taking my rack apart and reconfiguring gear....pulling effects and synths to stay at home so that I'm only lugging one rack of gear to Philly next month and now I SEE I MISSED THE REAL DEAL!!!!!! sigh.... Patrick ( who is still laughing at the thought...) Now Available: FingerPaint Primary Colors: BLUE A guitar-synth looping duo of dark illbience and dreamy ambience. Shockwave audio featuring our newest release Primary Colors:Blue www.fingerpaint.net From ???@??? Tue Aug 11 12:34:03 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAB19107; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 15:16:54 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 15:16:54 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <98Aug11.140619cdt.26882@gateway.gibson.com> From: Pat Murphy To: douglas-lawrence@home.com, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, Dino Cattaneo Subject: RE: Echoplex memory mess... (6 long screws and a short one) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 14:10:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"ydCMo2.0.zT4.0V9qr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1015 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com By the way, we no longer use screws of different lengths. They are all short screws these days and have been for a while now. Thanks Pat Murphy Oberheim Sales Greetings from Oberheim Regarding the memory mess. This may or may not help but is worth checking before sending your Echoplex back for repair. 1) It works great with factory memory. 2) The memory is upgraded. The Echoplex doesn't work right. 3) The original memory is reinstalled and it still acts funky. Some of the malfunctioning seems to occur after touching the or jarring the Echoplex. Here is a possible solution. There are 7 screws holding the top on the Echoplex. There are 4 on the back, 1 on each side and 1 on the front. All of these screws should be the same length except the one on the right side (looking from the front of the Echoplex). That screw should be just a fraction shorter than the rest. Unless you are really looking for it, all the screws appear to be the same length. When a long screw is put into the right side, it can come into contact with the core of the transformer. It seems to mess with the magnetic field somehow and it makes the Echoplex act kind of spastic. Jarring and touching the Echoplex can make it reset and act unpredictably if a long screw is used by mistake. This may or may not be the problem but you might check out. Hope this helps. Thanks Pat Murphy Oberheim Sales -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Lawrence [mailto:douglas-lawrence@home.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 1998 9:47 AM To: pmurphy@gibson.com; dcattane@gibson.com Subject: RE: Echoplex memory mess... (???) I'm not saying what the issue was, bad memory or otherwise, I just know that my EDP was not in great working condition. I noticed the problem started after I installed the new memory, then when I switched back, I still had problems. It could have been a cold solder made worse by flexing the board when I installed the new memory, I don't know ... I'm not going to make any judgements until I hear back from Oberheim. My only complaint is that I've been without my EDP for over month now, which is not Oberheim's fault. I mistakenly took it to a "qualified service center" when I should have shipped it directly to Oberheim to begin with. I have an e-mail in Mike Ayers and I should hear back soon. Some typical problems I saw ... when I hit overdub, the EDP would sporadically switch into multiply mode on it's own, then it would hang. Sometimes I couldn't get the EDP out of overdub without hitting the switch several times. Sometimes the screen would turn into giberish after letting a loop run for a few minutes. On Kim's advice, I took the EDP in for service and hope to get back a 100% working EDP. I also sent the suspect memory along with the EDP to see if that was possibly the issue. I hope to get it back soon ... >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Bret [mailto:echoplex@yahoo.com] >>Sent: Monday, August 10, 1998 10:19 PM >>To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >>Subject: Re: RE(2): Echoplex memory mess... >> >> >>If the unit works as you say ("the unit worked fine with the supplied >>50secs of memory"), fine with one set of simms, and not another then >>the simms are to be suspected, not the EDP. I have a wide variety of >>mixed used simms in my 2 EDPs, no issues. >> >>Defective or damaged ram is not an uncommon problem (I am in volume >>manufacturing of storage devices) . There is nothing to sort out, >>since the EDP works fine with the 50 sec of memory. The EDP works, >>the new Simms don't. >>bret >> >>Claude Lassonde wrote: >>> >>> What a mess... The service people at the company should post >>comments over >>> here to sort things out... Any Gibson-Oberheim-Echoplex tech around? >>> >>> >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> > From: Douglas Lawrence [mailto:douglas-lawrence@home.com] >>> > Sent: dimanche, aot 09, 1998 01:44 >>> > To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >>> > Subject: RE: Echoplex memory >>> > >>> > >>> > My Echoplex is now back at Oberheim being checked out for the >>> > same reasons. >>> > I haven't heard back from them what the problem was. From ???@??? Tue Aug 11 12:34:10 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA21542; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 15:31:24 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 15:31:24 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199808111917.MAA30252@scv2.apple.com> Subject: re: Floor-based EDP guitarcentric? Date: Tue, 11 Aug 98 14:19:19 -0600 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"T_O5G3.0.X45.Yi9qr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1016 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >I respectfully point out that this represents "guitar-centric" thinking. >As a percussionist, I would find a floor based EDP to be extremely > inconvenient. I don't have >a single "workstation" performance area where I can cluster stomp boxes. >A highly attractive feature of the EDP, to me, is a centralized rack-mount >unit with distributed footswitches. Any keyboardists out there? I'd say it actually represents "pedalboard-istic" thinking. If most/all of your tone shaping comes from pedals, a floor-based looper may be more suitable to your needs. As a rack-based guitarist, I prefer to put the expensive thingies where they aren't going to be stepped on, tripped over, or suffer drink spills. Travis Hartnett From ???@??? Tue Aug 11 14:55:29 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA03410; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 17:09:03 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 17:09:03 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <002501bdc56b$4b3e7980$18094382@hovard> From: "Thomas Whni" To: , "Liebig; Steuart A." Subject: Re: Re[2]: Boomerang/EDP different layout Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 23:02:03 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"cEzCd1.0.mi.m8Bqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1017 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Mike wrote: > I'm getting tired of all yoose musician's believing that all of these > tools should be designed just for you! > > What about us non-musicians and audience members? I want super large > LCD readouts so I can read along and stay up to speed wit wutsup in > your rig... Talk about musician-centric... > > -mb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike raises an interesting point. We`ve all been terribly impressed with the flashing racktuners that lights up at every note. I love that. How about a a big display that tells us what cord is being played , or where the guitarist stole that lick. You could call it "The LickDetector" and market it as "the Originality test"........ I can already hear guitarist go. "yeah man , I scored tops on the LickDetector test. Only a coupla Hendrix licks snuck in , but they were all impressed........" Yours , Thomas From ???@??? Tue Aug 11 15:49:19 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id SAA15986; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 18:44:56 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 18:44:56 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35D0C8CA.C0EA4488@musician.org> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 15:42:26 -0700 From: eric potter Reply-To: eric@musician.org Organization: Hog Wild Music and Sound FX X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Boomerang/EDP different layout References: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD051ACFA@migarexch01.maritz.com> <35D05AA8.37C7@mdbs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"IXS99.0.wn3.FYCqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1018 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Now *that* sounds like fun. Let's here more about your technique. I've looped percussion in the studio, but have yet to experience a serious percussion/loop performance. -eric Dennis W. Leas wrote: > As a > percussionist, I would find a floor based EDP to be extremely inconvenient. I don't have > a single "workstation" performance area where I can cluster stomp boxes. A highly > attractive feature of the EDP, to me, is a centralized rack-mount unit with distributed > footswitches. Any keyboardists out there? > > - Dennis Leas > > >Kim, what do you think of a 100% floor based EDP? > >What would it be like? Would anything have to be sacrificed to fit it in a > >Boomerang-sized case? > > > >-eric From ???@??? Tue Aug 11 16:08:16 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA19348; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 19:08:59 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 19:08:59 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 16:00:29 -0700 Message-ID: <0010DDCE.----@wj.com> From: Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle) Subject: Re[2]: Boomerang/EDP different layout To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, eric potter Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"ExuPt3.0.VZ4.xtCqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1020 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Eric Potter wrote... > Now *that* sounds like fun. Let's here more about your technique. I've looped > percussion in the studio, but have yet to experience a serious percussion/loop > performance.-eric >>Dennis W. Leas wrote: >> As a percussionist, I would find a floor based EDP to be extremely >> inconvenient. I don't have a single "workstation" performance area where I >> can cluster stomp boxes. A highly attractive feature of the EDP, to me, is a >> centralized rack-mount unit with distributed footswitches. Any keyboardists >> out there? Dennis Leas I play with a perc/drummer who uses a Kat controller on a drum rack with various triggers for hi-hat etc. hanging about... as well as his floor pedals. He's mounted a trigger of some sort (he makes some himself) which are his JamMan switches for some of it's functions. So he can activate taps with the sticks right on the beat. He also uses a Zendrum in which case I don't know how he triggers the Jammer for that. He has a *lot* of dedicated switches for a large variety of module control on that rack though! -miko From ???@??? Tue Aug 11 20:59:42 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA25239; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 19:53:06 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 19:53:06 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980811233412.006ac9cc@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 16:34:12 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint (by way of Kim Flint ) Subject: RE: Boomerang/EDP different layout Resent-Message-ID: <"WYOJU.0.Pm5.FRDqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1024 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 3:35 AM -0700 8/11/98, Andreas Willers wrote: >Yo, I love hands-on analog control via knobs as well! And while the EDP has >a lot of very clever features I find it's biggest disadvantage (correct me >if I'm wrong, I've never actually seen one) the lack of pitch control >(starting with that classic Les Paul 8va/8vb tape speed stuff). It's interesting that this pops up all the time, and I'd hazzard that this is another of those guitarist-centric things. (or a sound-designer centric thing....) It seems to come from a perspective of looping devices as sound effects or audio processors, as opposed to a type of audio recording device. Well, I think loopers like the echoplex, jamman, boomerang, etc. are NOT sound effects. Looking at these things to be sound effects is sort of missing the point completely. These devices are designed for recording audio and giving you easy ways to loop it and manipulate how and when it is played back. They are much more like samplers or hard disk recorders in that way, in this case with special features designed for real-time use. Those "clever features" on the echoplex that let you do this type of thing, ARE the echoplex. That's what it's purpose is. It wasn't designed to create weird noises itself, which is why it doesn't. It's job is to record them and reproduce them and give you ways to manipulate them in time, not impart any character of its own. There are often ways to abuse the features and get these loop devices to make interesting sound effects, but those are typically secondary to the real purpose of the device. (and indeed, most of these things people mention were actually "abuses" of features on old devices!) Citing something like the lack of a pitch-warping effect as the echoplex's "biggest disadvantage" is absurd, when that has absolutely nothing to do with the point of the device in the first place. It wasn't designed to be a sound effect, therefore it comes as no surprise that it isn't one. In fact, we frequently debate this during the design process. New features are constantly being forced to prove that they belong there and remain true to the nature and purpose of the device. Just because you could add something, doesn't always mean that you should! You might just end up with confused, tasteless mush. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Aug 11 20:59:41 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA25220; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 19:52:56 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 19:52:56 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980811233425.00736ca0@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 16:34:25 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint (by way of Kim Flint ) Subject: RE: Boomerang/EDP different layout Resent-Message-ID: <"SBE5k1.0.6n5.URDqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1025 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 5:33 PM -0700 8/10/98, Liebig, Steuart A. wrote: >> You could probably do this yourself to an echoplex pretty easily. >> > If I weren't kinda of an electronics dweeb . . . :-) its more of a mechanical project, not an electronics one. And if I think I can do it, probably just about anyone can...I'm not really mechanically inclined, more like mechanically willing. I'm not really sure what all the tools are called or what you're supposed to do with them, but I'm willing to give it a few whacks anyway. :-) sometimes it works out. >> without the front panel, the rest of the unit is 17 3/8" wide x 6" deep. >> The width is pretty typical for racks, I think. >> > How much of the box (without the rack ears) is really EDP? In other >words, could you fit the guts of it into another, smaller box? it fills the box. >> not a bad idea really, I might do that to >> one of mine..... >> > cool, let us know how that goes. . . I guess that the neo-luddite in >me still wants some knobs tho' . . . ah, yes, I think we had this conversation. The four knobs on there now, and the two additional continuous controller variables, and the fact that there are no other features in the thing that could possibly be controlled with a knob, doesn't really do it for you. As I recall, what you actually want are not just knobs, but new features.... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Aug 11 20:59:43 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA25231; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 19:53:02 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 19:53:02 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980811233441.00712084@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 16:34:41 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint (by way of Kim Flint ) Subject: Re: Re[2]: Boomerang/EDP different layout Resent-Message-ID: <"Bcl-41.0.yn5.iRDqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1026 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 2:02 PM -0700 8/11/98, Thomas Whni wrote: >Mike wrote: > >> I'm getting tired of all yoose musician's believing that all of these >> tools should be designed just for you! >> >> What about us non-musicians and audience members? I want super large >> LCD readouts so I can read along and stay up to speed wit wutsup in >> your rig... Talk about musician-centric... >> >> -mb > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >------------------------------- > >Mike raises an interesting point. We`ve all been terribly impressed with >the flashing >racktuners that lights up at every note. I love that. How about a a big >display that >tells us what cord is being played , or where the guitarist stole that lick. >You could call it "The LickDetector" and market it as "the Originality >test"........ >I can already hear guitarist go. "yeah man , I scored tops on the >LickDetector test. Only a coupla Hendrix licks snuck in , but they were >all impressed........" > >Yours , Thomas the LickDetector could have lot's of interesting uses, not to mention rhyming possibilities... I remember seeing the Mermen once, and Jim Thomas had this huge rack full of all sorts of weird crap that was blinking and flashing. Looked really cool! I was pretty sure most of it was just there for the LEDs. I was inspired. I've been planning to put a TV in my rack for years. I figure that will help most people relate better to my music, make them feel more like they're at home. :-) kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Aug 11 16:45:18 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA23266; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 19:40:36 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 19:40:36 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 16:35:05 -0700 To: From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: FW: Musicians/Floor Cleaners, and unwilling suscribers Resent-Message-ID: <"isnEV1.0.2b5.GNDqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1021 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 11:15 AM -0700 8/11/98, Stephen P. Goodman wrote: >I admit it's beginning to get a bit much for even me... What's the problem >with the newsletter software? Now *I* get complaints because of it, as >below. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jerry Bolduc [mailto:JBOLDUC@cowanbol.usa.com] >> Sent: None >> To: sgoodman@earthlight.net >> Subject: RE: Musicians/Floor Cleaners, >> [....] >> ======== Fwd by: Jerry Bolduc ======== >> please stop sending me e-mails! This is my place of businees >> and i do not >> have the time to read these >> no software problem here, this guy was legitamtely subscribed to the list. He either did it himself without understanding what he was doing or without comprehending what a mailing list is, or somebody else used his account to subscribe, either ignorantly or maliciously. All those things have happened here in the past, providing much amusement. Purely human, non-technical problem..... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Aug 11 20:59:44 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA25480; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 19:54:11 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 19:54:11 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980811233534.007270c4@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 16:35:34 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint (by way of Kim Flint ) Subject: Re: more Boomerang/EDP different layout Resent-Message-ID: <"IIb4Z2.0.Hq5.ZSDqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1027 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >Further Though on This: > > >Actually what I want is not so different from what an EDP ALREADY is. I just >don't want it to be a rack device, or make a rack device that is somewhat >smaller and has removable rack ears that can be easily made into a table top >device, and I'd like it to use the same foot controller interface . . . >with additional manual control knobs . . . how does this affect you >adversely? > since it doesn't exist that way, and isn't likely to soon, how about just mounting a rack vertically, or mounting the rack device vertically into a table, as is done with DJ gear and mixers and such? kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Aug 11 20:59:48 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id UAA29240; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 20:26:05 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 20:26:05 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: The Unit Circle Message-Id: <199808120021.UAA03135@keys.com> Subject: Re: Multiple loops on the EDP To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 20:21:03 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <199808111658.JAA08772@scv3.apple.com> from "T.W. Hartnett" at Aug 11, 98 11:59:50 am Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"pqq7I1.0.U27.y1Eqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1028 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Sorry Travis, I really don't think so. $200 samplers do this. I think the only reason that this isn't a feature in the current loopers is because it is a user-interface nightmare. I assuming that since the EDP lets you undo a loop addition, it's already storing your add-ons separetely from the main loop and doing on the fly mixing. The only difference between this and different-length loops is adding a tiny bit of overhead to keep track of the different beginning and end points and current location in the sample. Kevin > > Kevin wrote: > > >Uh, no. If the EDP had the multiple different length loops, it would have > >been the extra needed justification for me to buy it and spend the time > >with it. > > My recollection is that the EDP will allow you to have multiple loops of > different lengths, but you can only play one at a time. My understanding > of digital playback systems is that playback of multiple independent > "tracks" (loops in this case) requires more processing power, driving the > price up. > > Travis Hartnett > From ???@??? Tue Aug 11 20:59:52 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id UAA29978; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 20:30:39 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 20:30:39 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35D0E1C7.E0202759@musician.org> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 17:29:08 -0700 From: eric potter Reply-To: eric@musician.org Organization: Hog Wild Music and Sound FX X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Boomerang/EDP * TV in a rack References: <2.2.32.19980811233441.00712084@pop.chromatic.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5E6sZ3.0.qD7.E6Eqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1029 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I played bass in a band through a Vortex and a JamMan. When we finally gigged I needed a rack case. The only one around had a rack mount oscilliscope in it and three empty spaces. We played New Space Pop, so it was perfect. I split the stereo out of the Vortex to the o-scope, which was set to X/Y, the graphic representation of the stereo phase relationship, which makes just about anything look real trippy. But bass notes with stereo delay is where it's at on a 'scope. It was *the* way to get people to watch a bass player, or at least his stuff! I started composing based on what looks nice, and it was pretty consistent with what sounds nice, though certain dissonances look much better than others. The engineer wanted his 'scope back, thus closing a very fun chapter in a book of composing systems that I hope to revisit someday. -eric > I remember seeing the Mermen once, and Jim Thomas had this huge rack full > of all sorts of weird crap that was blinking and flashing. Looked really > cool! I was pretty sure most of it was just there for the LEDs. I was > inspired. > > I've been planning to put a TV in my rack for years. I figure that will > help most people relate better to my music, make them feel more like > they're at home. :-) > > kim > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Kim Flint | Looper's Delight > kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html > http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Aug 11 21:00:01 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id WAA12359; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 22:19:35 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 22:19:35 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Nemoguitt@aol.com Message-ID: <28858b8d.35d0faa1@aol.com> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 22:14:55 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Boomerang/EDP different layout Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"BD39-2.0.pv2.BiFqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1030 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com kim....i dont relish the thought that you would have mustered the resources to catsup with the mush....yipes, what would we then have to play with?..........michael From ???@??? Tue Aug 11 21:00:08 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id XAA22798; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 23:45:42 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 23:45:42 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980812033413.0070e82c@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 20:34:13 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Multiple loops on the EDP Resent-Message-ID: <"aVILf.0.qR5.CyGqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1032 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com You're missing a bunch of things, actually. The interface would certianly be a nightmare, but that's not it. The main reason it's impossible in the echoplex is because of the multiplies done for feedback. The echoplex is several years old now, and therefore uses a somewhat dated processor, and doing a 16x8 multiply on each sample takes up quite a few cycles. (It doesn't have any additional DSP part because that was much too expensive at the time, and wasn't considered necessary.) In addition to that, it's a very control intensive device, with a lot of different control inputs from the user interface. In order to guarantee very low latencies for all possible inputs and midi, it has to devote quite a bit of it's processor to a real time OS for handling everything for fast real-time operation. That guarantees rhythmic precision from the controls and accuracy for syncs, while making sure audio always goes to the right place in time. Also, the echoplex and other loopers do both recording and playback simultaneously, so it's full duplex, meaning there are really two audio streams that must be supported per loop. There's not enough power there in the echoplex to handle the interface, realtime OS, audio bandwidth, and more than one feedback multiply for each sample. Having that power would have meant making it much more expensive than was considered appropriate. However, there's still quite a lot going on in there beyond simple accessing memory and mixing. Also, a lot of the cost goes into things like good internal power supplies, large amounts of memory, and rugged sheet metal chassis, leaving less for processors. as for the samplers you are talking about (presumably the boss sp202, which lists for $395, not $200 - that's the only sampler I know of that's even close in price to the various loopers) the case is fairly different, and such a price comparison doesn't really hold up. some points about it are: a) only 4 voice polyphony and using much lower sample rates, so its not doing as much processing as you think. b) not doing anything like feedback. (although it has some simple effects, which lower polyphony when you use them.) c) not full duplex, you can't record and playback at the same time d) has minimal user interface e) not required to have very low latency controls f) designed by large Japanese companies that can risk the R&D on designing custom ASICs for one product (and can afford it), or are able to reuse asics from other products. g) are able to support much larger sales volumes, since basic samplers are much more popular than loopers. this lowers costs and makes things like custom ASICs more appropriate - loopers like the echoplex are not large volume products and have to rely on more expensive parts. h) using cheap wall-warts and built into a flimsy plastic case - much cheaper, but don't step on it! i) has only 1/2 MB of memory built in. (and uses expensive memory to expand) j) very minimal midi (in only), and not other control input k) no sync L) etc.... Now I don't mean to knock the boss unit, it's a cool little thing for what it does. But Roland and Oberheim (and Lexicon and Boomerang too) made radically different design decisions in creating the features for these things. Basically, Roland put all of the cost in the custom processor, leaving little left for anything else, Oberheim put much more emphasis on a sturdy design, high quality audio, and a large user interface. not to mention completely different features requiring different processor needs. anyway. as you can see I didn't do any work today. Been on jury duty...:-) kim At 08:21 PM 8/11/98 -0400, The Unit Circle wrote: >Sorry Travis, > >I really don't think so. $200 samplers do this. I think the only reason >that this isn't a feature in the current loopers is because it is a >user-interface nightmare. I assuming that since the EDP lets you undo a >loop addition, it's already storing your add-ons separetely from the main >loop and doing on the fly mixing. The only difference between this and >different-length loops is adding a tiny bit of overhead to keep track of >the different beginning and end points and current location in the sample. > >Kevin > >> >> Kevin wrote: >> >> >Uh, no. If the EDP had the multiple different length loops, it would have >> >been the extra needed justification for me to buy it and spend the time >> >with it. >> >> My recollection is that the EDP will allow you to have multiple loops of >> different lengths, but you can only play one at a time. My understanding >> of digital playback systems is that playback of multiple independent >> "tracks" (loops in this case) requires more processing power, driving the >> price up. >> >> Travis Hartnett >> > > > _________________________________________________________ Kim Flint, MTS kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research 408-752-9284 http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Tue Aug 11 21:44:17 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id AAB27164; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 00:20:45 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 00:20:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: TritoneDW@aol.com Message-ID: <6599e1df.35d1173f@aol.com> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 00:17:02 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re[2]: Boomerang/EDP different layout Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 56 Resent-Message-ID: <"GK7fS.0.lY6.4UHqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1033 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com << I remember seeing the Mermen once, and Jim Thomas had this huge rack full of all sorts of weird crap that was blinking and flashing. Looked really cool! I was pretty sure most of it was just there for the LEDs. I was inspired. >> Yeah, his rig is inspiring all right, in a "honey, which credit card has the most room on it" kind of way. He had 4 amps last time I saw him play, not to mention a massive rack (with EDP, among many other things) and bizarre table top gizmos I'm still trying to figure out. If you ever worry that you're too much of a gear hound, just check this guy out--your rig will seem spartan in comparison. I've always wanted to make a big rack mount display of different colored LEDs; just tons of lights, blinking, no audio purpose at all. Drew From ???@??? Wed Aug 12 09:48:46 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id BAA04906; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 01:59:21 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 01:59:21 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35D12EF8.2C42@erols.com> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 01:59:26 -0400 From: "J.G.Wong (Fiveman)" Reply-To: adaaxs@erols.com Organization: Uplink Hill Disability Technology Consulting, Tokusatsu Access, Video Japan Archive X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: RE: Boomerang/EDP different layout References: <199808111859.OAA15556@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rG6pJ.0.h51.juIqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1034 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hi all, I am delurking on this list so I'll give you some intro material at the end of this post. I have talked to the Boomerang guy and have asked about alternative packages . My rare but favorite configuration that renders much of my gear very undesireable. I belong to the Synthi Hi Fly school of thought: pdeals and switches on the floor , controls at fingetip height. I have managed this with my GR rig my EMS and some homeade fuzzboxes and analog delays. I would love to see a port next to every lcd display to show the info elsewhere and make the info avaialble to blind musicians.( a speech compatable port. A fingetip remote for the boomerang would make it the imperial king dog. I going to have to writr e them about this one. About me: I'm a recording engineer that co-owned the Red label in the seventies and eighties. Did radio in Philadephia space and progressive until about 85. Collect and use synths and am always looking for analog and will cut you samples. I have a studio that is used by physically handIcapped and blind users that need privacy and dignity and knobs and sliders. I give priority to nice people. Fiveman Tokusatsu Access Page (soon to be tokusatsu.com) http://www.angelfire.com/pa/Tokusatsuaccess An educated man is to an uneducated man as the living are to the dead Aristotle From ???@??? Wed Aug 12 09:49:13 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id EAA19523; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 04:54:48 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 04:54:48 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 04:50:26 -0400 From: Andreas Willers Subject: Re: Multiple loops on the EDP Sender: Andreas Willers To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Message-ID: <199808120450_MC2-55D3-6A6A@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"ZPyNi2.0.Yj4.CVLqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1035 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Thanks, Kim for the explanation. The EDP really exploits the basic digital looping setup to the max there!! Too bad You can't weed out Your first (sometimes rhythmic bass riff type) loop from the later parts with just one unit - a move that musical buildups often ask for especially with ostinatos. So it's great that you can sync two Echoplexes. BTW, you probably can't sync two different units, say a Jamman & an EDP? All the basic digi delays have/had the speed/octave switching capability that seems to be lost with some more advanced units like the tc 2290 and the EDP. Can You briefly explain how or why this doesn't work? Thanks again, Andreas Willers From ???@??? Wed Aug 12 09:49:18 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id FAA22117; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 05:32:26 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 05:32:26 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 05:28:55 -0400 From: Andreas Willers Subject: RE: Boomerang/EDP different layout Sender: Andreas Willers To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Message-ID: <199808120529_MC2-55D5-885C@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"srxw_.0.bL5.c2Mqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1036 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Dear Kim, I should have read the rest of my mail before emailing a reply to Your foregoing mail - you pretty much answered my question on the speed/pitch control issue in stating that it's basically a design decision (stupid me is just still curious how this works..). I grant everybody in the EDP developing process integrity for their decision making to optimize their unit. Then again musicians can't help to fool around with their stuff and sometimes abuse it in order to achieve certain aethetic goals - as can be seen in the history of the electric guitar. Especially with electronics it's nerve-wrecking (for both sides) to be in this well known 'my old blabla sucked but it could do this-and-that' situation which doesn't bring too much. We should rather install the 'Lick Detector Auto Mute' into our basic brain setup every now and then. Thanks & best wishes, Andreas Willers From ???@??? Wed Aug 12 09:49:21 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id GAA25334; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 06:19:22 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 06:19:22 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35D16E0A.42A8@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 03:27:22 -0700 From: Andre LaFosse Reply-To: altruist@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Multiple loops on the EDP References: <199808120450_MC2-55D3-6A6A@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7Urru3.0.q76.PkMqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1037 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Andreas Willers wrote: > The EDP really exploits the basic digital > looping setup to the max there!! Too bad You can't weed out Your first > (sometimes rhythmic bass riff type) loop from the later parts with just one > unit - a move that musical buildups often ask for especially with > ostinatos. There are actually several ways to get this *sort* of effect (though I don't know if it's exactly what you're looking for). 1) Use the Undo function to get rid of overdubs made after the initial loop. You may be limited by available memory, number of loops, and how many overdubs you make. 2) Using multiple loops, record your initial loop as the first one, then copy just that basic loop to a second loop, and overdub onto that one. If you want to strip it back down to the initial loop, simply switch back to the first loop. 3) With QUANTIZE switched off, hit the Multiply button at a specific point in a loop and then end the Multiply with Record. The hits of Multiply and Record will dictate the exact start and stop points of a new loop, which can be much shorter than the original loop. This method of extracting a shorter segment out of a longer loop is a very useful tool, and seems to be seriously underutilized by a lot of users. --Andre From ???@??? Wed Aug 12 09:50:22 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA24407; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 11:19:31 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 11:19:31 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35D1B104.DE5DD74E@Pirnie.com> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 11:13:08 -0400 From: "Lee Wordsman" Reply-To: Lwordsman@pirnie.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Multiple loops on the EDP References: <199808120450_MC2-55D3-6A6A@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ToClo3.0.tm5.-5Rqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1038 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Andreas Willers wrote: > Too bad You can't weed out Your first > (sometimes rhythmic bass riff type) loop from the later parts with just one > unit - a move that musical buildups often ask for especially with > ostinatos.. Are you saying that you can't have one of the hypothetical 5 loops that doesn't include loop 1. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your point. I've always assumed that the EDP could be used to play a separate theme on loop 2 so that you could loop your basic pattern on loop 1 and a bridge on loop 2. Is this incorrect? From ???@??? Wed Aug 12 09:50:25 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA27116; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 11:35:39 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 11:35:39 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <001801bdc605$eaa41580$d8084382@hovard> From: "Thomas Whni" To: Subject: Re: Re[2]: Boomerang/EDP different layout Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 17:28:53 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"nyT3B1.0.0V6.IMRqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1039 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Kim Wrote: I've been planning to put a TV in my rack for years. I figure that will help most people relate better to my music, make them feel more like they're at home. :-) kim ______________________________________________________________________ How about putting a real refridgerator in your rack , a "Fridge in the fridge" so to speak? You could open it during the set and throw icy cokes on the audience. Seems a lot better than the stuff Ozzy throws at his crowd...........you could even have ice cream in there and bite the head of popsicles to drive the crowd into a frenzy! Just tell I sent ya...........:-) Yours , Thomas From ???@??? Wed Aug 12 09:50:26 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA28570; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 11:43:57 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 11:43:57 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: GRAIGORY2@aol.com Message-ID: <69a968c8.35d1b6e9@aol.com> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 11:38:16 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: SOUNDCARDS Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"FYMYQ1.0.Gp6.DTRqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1040 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I am having a problem with simultanious playback and recording on my computer.. it says that my soundcard is not in FULL DUPLEX.. how do I go about fixing that? From ???@??? Wed Aug 12 09:50:35 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA31326; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 12:00:11 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 12:00:11 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <008801bdc608$6da04560$0d01a8c0@Remote> From: "Steve Lauder" To: Subject: Re: SOUNDCARDS Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 16:46:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"kUvXj1.0.0W7.uiRqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1041 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I take it you're using an AWE 64 card, as I too have had this problem. In Win '95, go to "Settings" off the start menu, and go to the control panel. Double click "System", and then go to the "Device Manager" tab. expand the "Sound, video and games controllers" menu, and double click the driver of your sound card. There'll be several tabs along the top, and under one of them should be an option to run your soundcard in "Full Duplex" or "Half Duplex" mode. Click the one of your choice, OK it, and your system will reboot. If you ever want to change it back again, follow the same procedure. Hope this helps, Steve Lauder steve.lauder@elspa.com -----Original Message----- From: GRAIGORY2@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: 12 August 1998 16:40 Subject: SOUNDCARDS >I am having a problem with simultanious playback and recording on my >computer.. it says that my soundcard is not in FULL DUPLEX.. how do I go about >fixing that? > From ???@??? Wed Aug 12 09:50:41 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA00449; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 12:12:34 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 12:12:34 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: GRAIGORY2@aol.com Message-ID: <87b98395.35d1bdc7@aol.com> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 12:07:34 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: SOUNDCARDS Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"K0ALC2.0.X-7.huRqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1042 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com unfourtunately, I am using the sounblaster 16 still.. i did what you said, but did not find that option... From ???@??? Wed Aug 12 10:36:50 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA11556; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 13:32:55 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 13:32:55 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD051AD17@migarexch01.maritz.com> From: "Liebig, Steuart A." To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Boomerang/EDP different layout Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 12:28:07 -0500 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Resent-Message-ID: <"bhG0p1.0.Wi2.n3Tqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1043 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > These devices are designed for recording audio and giving > you easy ways to loop it and manipulate how and when it is played back. > I view some of the things being discussed as ways to manipulate the audio . . . > That's what it's purpose is. It wasn't designed to create weird > noises itself, which is why it doesn't. It's job is to record them and > reproduce them and give you ways to manipulate them in time, not impart > any > character of its own. > Philosophically speaking, I feel that one could make a case that the fact that there are looping devices can be directly attributable to that fact that people "abused" a Revox tape recorder or an old Echoplex tape delay way back in the day. If people didn't "abuse" tape machines, it's very possible that we wouldn't have chorus/flange/backwards tape sounds, etc. This is not meant as a dis, you guys obviously have made a great machine . . . this whole thread seems to be from the standpoint of "what if" . . . things that some people feel would make the EDP more usable in their universe . . . the fact that they're even discussing it seems to me to be a tribute to the fact that the EDP is good device and that they respect you guys, and what you've and are capable of doing. But people always want things to fit their universes . . . > There are often ways to abuse the features and get these loop devices to > make interesting sound effects, but those are typically secondary > fuzz boxes weren't "meant" to make feedback, but it sure is fun when they do . . . > Just because you could add > something, doesn't always mean that you should! > > True > You might just end up with > confused, tasteless mush. > One humanoid's confused tasteless mush might be another's perfectly made French Fries . . . :-) stig From ???@??? Wed Aug 12 10:45:14 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA13183; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 13:43:52 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 13:43:52 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <35D1B104.DE5DD74E@Pirnie.com> References: <199808120450_MC2-55D3-6A6A@compuserve.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 10:30:21 -0700 To: Lwordsman@pirnie.com, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Multiple loops on the EDP Resent-Message-ID: <"hUvwx2.0.S33.-CTqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1044 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 8:13 AM -0700 8/12/98, Lee Wordsman wrote: >Andreas Willers wrote: >> Too bad You can't weed out Your first >> (sometimes rhythmic bass riff type) loop from the later parts with just one >> unit - a move that musical buildups often ask for especially with >> ostinatos.. > >Are you saying that you can't have one of the hypothetical 5 loops that >doesn't include loop 1. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your point. I've >always assumed that the EDP could be used to play a separate theme on >loop 2 so that you could loop your basic pattern on loop 1 and a bridge >on loop 2. Is this incorrect? No, I think you missed something there. We were talking about a particular technique you could do with copies to acheive the effect of having multiple loops at once. The normal case is all the loops are completely independent of each other, you can record anything into any of them, any length. If you *want* to, you can copy the audio from any one loop to any other. So you could have Loop1's audio be the base of Loop5, or Loop4 be the base of Loop2, or whatever. You can also copy just the time base, so that any loop can be a multiple length of another, which is helpful for keeping things in time. For example, you could have a 2.1 second loop in Loop3, and copy just the time to Loop5 so that it is also 2.1 sec but with different audio, and then you could do the same to loop8 but let it extend out 3 times longer to be 6.3 seconds, etc. Its very flexible. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Wed Aug 12 21:54:41 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA18347; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 14:23:12 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 14:23:12 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199808120450_MC2-55D3-6A6A@compuserve.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 11:15:54 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Multiple loops on the EDP Resent-Message-ID: <"wiaz6.0.5L4.6pTqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1045 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 1:50 AM -0700 8/12/98, Andreas Willers wrote: >ostinatos. So it's great that you can sync two Echoplexes. BTW, you >probably can't sync two different units, say a Jamman & an EDP? you should be able to with midi clock, since they both sync to that. >All the basic digi delays have/had the speed/octave switching capability >that seems to be lost with some more advanced units like the tc 2290 and >the EDP. Can You briefly explain how or why this doesn't work? Old A/D and D/A convertors made this easy, since they just took any clock input and happily sampled at that rate. If you generated the clock with a VCO, you could vary it, which would change the sample rate, and correspondingly the delay time, pitch, etc. Since the audio quality of these parts sucked anyway, nobody cared about things like clock jitter. In order to improve the quality of digital audio parts, manufacturers of ADC/DACs changed this, using built in crystal oscillators and PLL's and different types of sampling technology. So by improving audio quality, you lose the ability to cheaply vary the sample rate all over the place. The parts don't do it. In order to duplicate the effect, you have to do a fair amount of DSP for sample rate conversion filters to create the effect digitally, which requires much more processing than was needed before. The other thing, a simple delay is only doing one thing, so nothing else is affected by changing the sample rate. With something like the echoplex, we would have to worry about what happens to midi sync, brother sync, the display, multiple loops, copies, memory bandwidths, control response, etc. So now it takes a lot of processing, extra software, and careful feature design to reproduce something that was available almost by accident 20 years ago. So on one hand, this sort of thing was just way beyond the scope of the mid-priced technology we designed in the echoplex. The other thing was, we (Matthias, mostly) were never trying to recreate some ancient digital delay, we were doing something rather new and different. So this sort of thing wasn't really considered for the feature set. Instead, you get things like Multiply (which is a brilliant invention of Matthias') and BrotherSync and Undo, easy recording, midi...etc. If it were easy to add, the story might have been different. (as was the case with the reverse and replace functions.) kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Wed Aug 12 21:54:44 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA23074; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 14:54:43 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 14:54:43 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35D1E11E.384FD7B2@ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 13:38:22 -0500 From: x X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: altruist@earthlink.net CC: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Multiple loops on the EDP References: <199808120450_MC2-55D3-6A6A@compuserve.com> <35D16E0A.42A8@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"awUa62.0.5V5.qGUqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1046 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Andre LaFosse wrote: > Andreas Willers wrote: > > The EDP really exploits the basic digital > > looping setup to the max there!! Too bad You can't weed out Your first > > (sometimes rhythmic bass riff type) loop from the later parts with just one > > unit - a move that musical buildups often ask for especially with > > ostinatos. > > There are actually several ways to get this *sort* of effect (though I > don't know if it's exactly what you're looking for). > > 1) Use the Undo function to get rid of overdubs made after the initial > loop. You may be limited by available memory, number of loops, and how > many overdubs you make. > > 2) Using multiple loops, record your initial loop as the first one, then > copy just that basic loop to a second loop, and overdub onto that one. > If you want to strip it back down to the initial loop, simply switch > back to the first loop. > > 3) With QUANTIZE switched off, hit the Multiply button at a specific > point in a loop and then end the Multiply with Record. The hits of > Multiply and Record will dictate the exact start and stop points of a > new loop, which can be much shorter than the original loop. This method > of extracting a shorter segment out of a longer loop is a very useful > tool, and seems to be seriously underutilized by a lot of users. > > --Andre These useful tools are what I'd like to see more of. If some sort of applications manual based on user experiences and other knowledgable contributions could be compiled, I think it would be a great help to newer users who have a difficult time getting a grip on this unit. Hope to see more tidbits like these discussed. Mike From ???@??? Wed Aug 12 21:54:49 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA31314; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 15:30:18 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 15:30:18 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: The Unit Circle Message-Id: <199808121923.PAA30050@keys.com> Subject: Re: Multiple loops on the EDP To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 15:23:42 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19980812033413.0070e82c@pop.chromatic.com> from "Kim Flint" at Aug 11, 98 08:34:13 pm Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"Sp2LI2.0.tU7.HnUqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1047 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Kim, thanks for your excellent explanation why it would be very technically hard for the EDP to do multiple different-length loops simultaneously with it's current architecture. I'm wondering why other loopers with different architectures couldn't solve this problem. Your point about loopers being full-duplex is an excellent one. The sampler I was talking about (and mentioned in my message) is the Yamaha SU10. I guess, sort of what I am looking for is a full-duplex sampler with a hands free user interface. The quest continues... Kevin From ???@??? Wed Aug 12 21:54:53 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA11222 for kflint@annihilist.com; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 16:41:41 -0400 Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 16:41:41 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-From_: AAttew@aol.com Wed Aug 12 16:41:34 1998 Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) with ESMTP id QAA11182 for ; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 16:41:34 -0400 From: AAttew@aol.com Received: from AAttew@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (IMOv14_b1.1) id CGORa03887 for ; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 16:40:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Old-Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 16:40:35 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: mailing list Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 178 X-Diagnostic: undecipherable, help sent X-Envelope-To: Loopers-Delight Please remove me from this mailing list it is so boring From ???@??? Wed Aug 12 21:55:25 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id UAA08908; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 20:24:26 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 20:24:26 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD051AD20@migarexch01.maritz.com> From: "Liebig, Steuart A." To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: remove Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 19:19:23 -0500 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Resent-Message-ID: <"PKDgx1.0.n02.25Zqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1049 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > -----Original Message----- > From: robert@prosurftour.com [SMTP:robert@prosurftour.com] > Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 17:15 > Subject: Send Your Own Mass E-Mail-Complete Kit > > You can profit from junk e-mail. If your computer is sitting idle while > you're at work or play...you're crazy! > You could be earning money while you're asleep, at work or out having fun. > You can make incredible > money sending your own mass e-mails. If you own your own business or have > a product or idea to sell , > then you probably know that all advertising works..it's just a question of > whether it's cost effective or not. > What could be more cost effective than a ZERO cost of adverising? If you > sent out 500,000 e-mails which > would take you only a few minutes to set your computer up to do and you > only recieved one half of one > percent response..that would be 2500 people responding to your ad. And the > cost to do it was NOTHING. > Junk e-mail is here to stay, so wouldn't it be nice to laugh every time > you receive a piece of junk e-mail from > someone because you know for every one you receive, you're sending out > hundreds of thousands. If > your computer is sitting idle while you're at work or play...you're crazy! > You could be earning money while > you're asleep, at work or out having fun. It's not like you have to sit > there and watch it run! > So why isn't every one doing it? Well your local internet service > provider spent lots of money installing > filtering equipment to keep out this so-called junk e-mail and, in fact, > for years there's been sort of a fun > little war going on between the junk e-mail software writers and the > internet serrvice provider filter > software writers to see who could out-smart who.The end result is that > sending mass e-mails legally has > become an art . But it's really all about knowing the secrets and having > the right software. > AVATAR Publishing is offering you the type of expertise and support > that would take you years to > learn. We know all the secrets (obviously or you wouldn't be reading this > would you?) and we have the > software to deliver to most of the internet service providers. So here's > the offer... AVATAR is offering you > a mass e-mail starter kit comlete with step by step instructions on how to > get started sending out mass e- > mails...a current explanation of what's legal and not legal...how to > extract e-mail addresses from the > internet ...how to get targeted e-mail addresses...a FREE trial version of > the most effective mass e-mail > software program ever developed...a list of bulk e-mail friendly internet > service providers....a complete > explanation of the secrets of how to legally get your mail through the > filtering and why it works....and > finally a real telephone number so you can have technical support and keep > updated on new developments > in the mass e-mail community. The total cost of this kit is only $29. > If you would like to stop having your computer sit idle while you're > at work or asleep and start having it > make money for you ..... > > Send $29 to: AVATAR Publishing > > 1000 E.Walnut St. > > Suite 213 > Pasadena,Ca.91106 > > - OR - > > Order by Phone: (626) 792-1764 > > To be removed from our e-mail list, submit your e-mail address to > robert@prosurftour.com > From ???@??? Wed Aug 12 21:55:27 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id UAA09256; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 20:26:59 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 20:26:59 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD051AD21@migarexch01.maritz.com> From: "Liebig, Steuart A." To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: mea culpa Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 19:20:52 -0500 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Resent-Message-ID: <"nNuIp.0.W42.N6Zqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1050 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I was trying to get off thatguy's spam list . . . sorry! Didn't see that it came through LD! s From ???@??? Wed Aug 12 21:55:28 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id UAA09808; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 20:30:23 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 20:30:23 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: PJBMHB@aol.com Message-ID: <4419b5f7.35d23280@aol.com> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 20:25:34 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: remove Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Resent-Message-ID: <"pL4lr2.0.BI2.oBZqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1051 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com why not just sell crack or become a prostitute? more honorable! From ???@??? Wed Aug 12 21:55:42 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id UAA13388; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 20:57:53 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 20:57:53 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35D235A6.FDD8B0C8@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 20:39:03 -0400 From: GHOST X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: please take care of this Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_BqkZ2.0.-A3.kbZqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1053 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I unsubscribed fromyour list months ago, now I am again recieving posts daily. I do not wish to, nor do I feel I should have to be forced to go through the hassle of unsubscribing again. This is your list. Please take care of this. looperanne@earthlink.net truthcircle@earthlink.net Thank you! From ???@??? Wed Aug 12 21:55:44 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id VAA18023; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 21:33:45 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 21:33:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980813112705.008814d0@192.168.0.1> X-Sender: studio#mail.toysatellite.com.au@192.168.0.1 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 11:27:44 +1000 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Toy Satellite Subject: Re: Studio Musicians Soulful? And No Mac Koan. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"lCdEk1.0.LJ4.O7aqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1054 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 10:21 AM 8/6/98 +0100, you wrote: >>Additionally, I would suggest that most of the people >>who make such comments about "soulless studio musicians" have no idea what >>is involved in being a good studio musician. > >Of course, the possibility also exists that good studio musicians have no >idea what is involved in having a soul... :-) > > >>Is anyone using KOAN yet? I've been using Koan for about two years now. Most excellent. >I also downloaded the demo of Koan onto a Windows machine (since it >doesn't run for a Mac, and I don't think they have any plans on writing a >Mac version, and I have only Mac's), and it was intriguing enough to make >me toy with the idea of buying a Windows machine. I can see why Eno is >such a fan. A Mac version is about to enter Beta. See http://www.sseyo.com for more information. Andrew From ???@??? Wed Aug 12 21:55:45 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id WAB23542; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 22:23:20 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 22:23:20 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35D24DB4.EE5AE2B3@musician.org> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 19:21:55 -0700 From: eric potter Reply-To: eric@musician.org Organization: Hog Wild Music and Sound FX X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: What's your favorite lo-fi delay/looper Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ojzRe2.0.xf5.rraqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1055 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com We've had a bit of discussion on EH Super Replay and 2 Sec. Delay as interesting tools of crappification through delay. So far I've never encountered these units, but I'd like to hear more about making a nice, pure tone degenerate into a hackneyed ghost of its former self through delay (or other processes). I'm interested in real-time performance oriented techniques. -eric From ???@??? Thu Aug 13 00:08:38 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id CAA14683; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 02:05:38 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 02:05:38 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199808130600.CAA10930@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: Re: please take care of this Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 01:55:42 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"uuxyU.0.mQ3.Y4eqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1056 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From: GHOST > To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Subject: please take care of this > Date: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 8:39 PM > > I unsubscribed fromyour list months ago, now I am again recieving posts > daily. > I do not wish to, nor do I feel I should have to be forced to go through > the hassle of > unsubscribing again. This is your list. Please take care of this. this is almost comical. I guess in a way - it's a v...e....r..y - long LOOP... every 2 weeks or so, someone decides that this will work...! *sigh* From ???@??? Thu Aug 13 09:58:09 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id DAA22841; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 03:29:01 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 03:29:01 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199808130600.CAA10930@shell.monmouth.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 00:23:54 -0700 To: From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: please take care of this Resent-Message-ID: <"FV16p2.0.SW5.fKfqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1057 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 10:55 PM -0700 8/12/98, andre wrote: > From: GHOST >> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >> Subject: please take care of this >> Date: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 8:39 PM >> >> I unsubscribed fromyour list months ago, now I am again recieving posts >> daily. >> I do not wish to, nor do I feel I should have to be forced to go through >> the hassle of >> unsubscribing again. This is your list. Please take care of this. > > >this is almost comical. > >I guess in a way - it's a v...e....r..y - long LOOP... every 2 weeks or >so, someone decides that this will work...! the really comical thing is, neither of this person's addresses are on the list! God knows what loop they're caught in. oh well..... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Aug 13 09:58:18 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id EAA31209; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 04:59:01 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 04:59:01 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: RE: please take care of this Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 01:45:21 -0700 Message-ID: <001e01bdc698$1aba7d80$f98ffea9@stepheng> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Resent-Message-ID: <"VBTkW1.0.oZ7.6fgqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1058 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com ...'truthcircle'? Sounds a little creepy to me... :) I don't know if someone mentioned this, but Sheri Lewis used to have a song she sang, that was a loop on its own, called "The Song That Never Ends"... and it just looped and looped and... well, you know. Anyone? Stephen Goodman * It's The Loop Of The Week! EarthLight Studios * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios From ???@??? Thu Aug 13 23:25:05 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA22610; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 13:49:04 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 13:49:04 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35D2E0D1.ED3D9EA5@nyfac.com> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 13:49:21 +0100 From: nyfac2 Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com Organization: New York Film and Animation Inc / 3DV X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Send Your Own Mass E-Mail-Complete Kit References: <199808130014.UAA07310@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ZmgML3.0.bQ5.TPoqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1066 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I have heard that replying to these mass mailings does not get you taken off their list- in fact, I have been told that this only shows them that your account is active, and puts you on future spam lists. Anyone hear the same thing? tdb From ???@??? Thu Aug 13 09:58:58 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id JAA18732; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 09:33:18 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 09:33:18 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: GRAIGORY2@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 09:28:21 EDT To: sgoodman@earthlight.net, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: please take care of this Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"urJUD2.0.KR4.jfkqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1059 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 8/13/98 4:58:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, sgoodman@earthlight.net writes: << I don't know if someone mentioned this, but Sheri Lewis used to have a song she sang, that was a loop on its own, called "The Song That Never Ends"... and it just looped and looped and... well, you know. Anyone? >> You are talking about that damn lambchop's play along song. From ???@??? Thu Aug 13 09:59:04 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id KAA23577; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 10:08:05 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 10:08:05 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: From: David Kirkdorffer To: x , altruist@earthlink.net Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Compiling Tips and Tricks with Looper Devices Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 10:00:52 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"Gc9iP3.0.uY5.t8lqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1060 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I agree. The Loopers-Delight sight might be the perfect place to collect various tips and tricks people have to the various loopers we're all using. Imagine a page with a sections like "Jamman Tips and Tricks" "Echoplex Tips and Tricks" "Boomerang Tips and Tricks" What do you think? If the idea has merit, maybe we can get things started by putting out a call for "tips and tricks" making use of a particular setting or feature on each of these boxes? david kirkdorffer undo > -----Original Message----- > From: x [SMTP:chemuser@ix.netcom.com] > Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 2:38 PM > To: altruist@earthlink.net > Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Subject: Re: Multiple loops on the EDP > > These useful tools are what I'd like to see more of. If some sort of > applications manual based on user experiences and other knowledgable > contributions could be compiled, I think it would be a great help to newer > users > who have a difficult time getting a grip on this unit. Hope to see more > tidbits > like these discussed. > > Mike From ???@??? Thu Aug 13 09:59:07 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id KAA25611; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 10:21:13 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 10:21:13 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <2C396693FBDED111AEF60000F84104A71A63CE@indyexch_fddi.indy.tce.com> From: Hoover Alan To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Send Your Own Mass E-Mail-Complete Kit Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 09:15:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"PEDif2.0.J46.GLlqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1061 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com You must die. -----Original Message----- From: robert@prosurftour.com [mailto:robert@prosurftour.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 7:15 PM Subject: Send Your Own Mass E-Mail-Complete Kit You can profit from junk e-mail. If your computer is sitting idle while you're at work or play...you're crazy! You could be earning money while you're asleep, at work or out having fun. You can make incredible money sending your own mass e-mails. If you own your own business or have a product or idea to sell , then you probably know that all advertising works..it's just a question of whether it's cost effective or not. What could be more cost effective than a ZERO cost of adverising? If you sent out 500,000 e-mails which would take you only a few minutes to set your computer up to do and you only recieved one half of one percent response..that would be 2500 people responding to your ad. And the cost to do it was NOTHING. Junk e-mail is here to stay, so wouldn't it be nice to laugh every time you receive a piece of junk e-mail from someone because you know for every one you receive, you're sending out hundreds of thousands. If your computer is sitting idle while you're at work or play...you're crazy! You could be earning money while you're asleep, at work or out having fun. It's not like you have to sit there and watch it run! So why isn't every one doing it? Well your local internet service provider spent lots of money installing filtering equipment to keep out this so-called junk e-mail and, in fact, for years there's been sort of a fun little war going on between the junk e-mail software writers and the internet serrvice provider filter software writers to see who could out-smart who.The end result is that sending mass e-mails legally has become an art . But it's really all about knowing the secrets and having the right software. AVATAR Publishing is offering you the type of expertise and support that would take you years to learn. We know all the secrets (obviously or you wouldn't be reading this would you?) and we have the software to deliver to most of the internet service providers. So here's the offer... AVATAR is offering you a mass e-mail starter kit comlete with step by step instructions on how to get started sending out mass e- mails...a current explanation of what's legal and not legal...how to extract e-mail addresses from the internet ...how to get targeted e-mail addresses...a FREE trial version of the most effective mass e-mail software program ever developed...a list of bulk e-mail friendly internet service providers....a complete explanation of the secrets of how to legally get your mail through the filtering and why it works....and finally a real telephone number so you can have technical support and keep updated on new developments in the mass e-mail community. The total cost of this kit is only $29. If you would like to stop having your computer sit idle while you're at work or asleep and start having it make money for you ..... Send $29 to: AVATAR Publishing 1000 E.Walnut St. Suite 213 Pasadena,Ca.91106 - OR - Order by Phone: (626) 792-1764 To be removed from our e-mail list, submit your e-mail address to robert@prosurftour.com From ???@??? Thu Aug 13 09:59:11 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id KAA26024; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 10:22:53 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 10:22:53 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <2C396693FBDED111AEF60000F84104A71A63CF@indyexch_fddi.indy.tce.com> From: Hoover Alan To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: mea culpa Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 09:16:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"HwMx1.0.O76.MMlqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1062 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Sorry, didn't mean for this to get to Loopers, only to the spam guy. -----Original Message----- From: Liebig, Steuart A. [mailto:LiebigSA@Maritz.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 7:21 PM To: 'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com' Subject: mea culpa I was trying to get off thatguy's spam list . . . sorry! Didn't see that it came through LD! s From ???@??? Thu Aug 13 09:59:15 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id KAA28182; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 10:37:43 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 10:37:43 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <35D2F9D7.174E@mdbs.com> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 09:36:07 -0500 From: "Dennis W. Leas" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; U) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: yet more Boomerang/EDP different layout References: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD051AD0B@migarexch01.maritz.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sPWSt.0.al6.walqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1063 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com OK, I had a thought last night as I was perusing my new Marlin P. Jones and Associates catalog that a got 'cause somebody mentioned them on the list. The MPJA catalog listed an multi-channel remote transmitter/reciever kit. So. How about a WIRELESS EDP footswitch? You wouldn't have the plumbing problems of extra cable and you could still use a normally configured EDP. - Dennis Leas From ???@??? Thu Aug 13 09:59:19 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA01384; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 11:23:59 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 11:23:59 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199808131515.LAA14878@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: Re: please take care of this Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 11:11:29 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"FWHHk2.0.R5.VDmqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1064 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > > From: GHOST ........daily. > >> I do not wish to, nor do I feel I should have to be forced to go through > >> the hassle of unsubscribing again. This is your list. Please take care of this. > > >this is almost comical.....I guess in a way - it's a v...e....r..y - long LOOP... every 2 weeks or > >so, someone decides that this will work...! > > the really comical thing is, neither of this person's addresses are on the > list! God knows what loop they're caught in. oh well..... kim Perhaps one of the people on this list forwards to them....? From ???@??? Thu Aug 13 23:24:58 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA20985; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 13:36:04 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 13:36:04 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 10:29:28 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Compiling Tips and Tricks with Looper Devices Resent-Message-ID: <"ZRjeP1.0.xz4.NCoqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1065 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 7:00 AM -0700 8/13/98, David Kirkdorffer wrote: >I agree. > >The Loopers-Delight sight might be the perfect place to collect various tips >and tricks people have to the various loopers we're all using. > >Imagine a page with a sections like > "Jamman Tips and Tricks" > "Echoplex Tips and Tricks" > "Boomerang Tips and Tricks" > >What do you think? > >If the idea has merit, maybe we can get things started by putting out a call >for "tips and tricks" making use of a particular setting or feature on each >of these boxes? > there actually are quite a few pages like this on the site now. There is a whole section called "Tips and Tricks" with submissions from various people and the pages for the different devices have more of this. http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tips/tips.html more is definitely welcome though!!! Lot's of good ideas get posted to the list, and it would be cool if someone could compile some of it to make more "tips" pages. Those are usually among the most popular pages on the site, and more is good. Looper's Delight grows through volunteer efforts of the people who use it. If you've never contributed anything, now might be a fine time! You get to share knowledge, give to your community, have a warm feeling in your heart, and have your name displayed prominently on a site that get's a hell of a lot of hits! What a deal! if anyone wants to do something, let me know. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Aug 13 23:25:08 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA28748; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 14:31:32 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 14:31:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980813142556.007a0d10@pop3.afn.org> X-Sender: afn39111@pop3.afn.org (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 14:25:56 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: "earthblind, starbound" Subject: Re: Koan -- what the heck is it? In-Reply-To: <199808130705.DAA20793@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"L8UD21.0.Pv6.B1pqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1067 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com After making it past the blank opening page at the koan website, I still can't figure out what Koan is. I see huge feature lists and hype but no description of what you DO with the program. From the screenshots it looks like an difficult midi program ala Cakewalk w/o the (rather unfortunate) staff view, but some of the hype tries to make it sound more like Acid. What is it? A 2 meg demo is a bit much for me to work on w/o any info, especially considering the slowness of the site and my 1 hour limit for downloads. - Against a Sickness: To the Female Double Principle God http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Atrium/4664 From ???@??? Thu Aug 13 23:25:09 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA00483; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 15:01:23 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 15:01:23 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: "Collins" To: Subject: Clips on website Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 14:54:21 -0400 Message-ID: <01bdc6eb$c8694bc0$f91bbfa8@0QHC6SIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"gU-SQ.0.gz7.SSpqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1068 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hello all. I believe that a few of you have actually checked out my website at www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Stadium/1429/STRANGETONES.html some said that the audio clips were messed up...well... i fixed that problem and hope that you can enhance your ears with something like you've never heard before. Thanks for your time. Jeff Collins From ???@??? Thu Aug 13 23:25:14 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA07346; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 15:47:25 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 15:47:25 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <001a01bdc6f2$0db08760$06094382@hovard> From: "Thomas Whni" To: Subject: Q`s about AWE 32 performance. Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 21:39:13 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"qgyR-1.0.Nc1.w6qqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1069 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hi all , I have a few problems with the performance of my AWE 32 card. When I record an audiofile in my Cubase prog(not VST) I have to choose mono-playback and mono-record in order to avoid glitches and freeweeling sync between audio and midi. This is a big problem because I can`t PAN things left and right and the mix sounds crowded. Could this be a driver-problem? Can any of you offer advice on this? (PS; my machine is 200 mhz Pentium , 32 mb RAM IDE drive (sigh...) ) Yours , Thomas From ???@??? Thu Aug 13 23:25:26 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id SAA26659; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 18:00:52 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 18:00:52 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Marzzz@aol.com Message-ID: <4c6dfa36.35d35fc6@aol.com> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 17:50:47 EDT To: nyfac2@nyfac.com, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: Send Your Own Mass E-Mail-Complete Kit Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Resent-Message-ID: <"exMMQ2.0.OE6.D1sqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1071 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 8/13/98 12:48:15 PM, you wrote: >I have heard that replying to these mass mailings does not get you taken off their >list- in fact, I have been told >that this only shows them that your account is active, and puts you on future spam >lists. > >Anyone hear the same thing? From ???@??? Thu Aug 13 23:25:28 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id SAA27420; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 18:04:44 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 18:04:44 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Marzzz@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 17:53:09 EDT To: nyfac2@nyfac.com, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: Send Your Own Mass E-Mail-Complete Kit Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Resent-Message-ID: <"JueFx1.0.PI6.03sqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1072 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 8/13/98 12:48:15 PM, nyfac2@nyfac.com wrote: >I have heard that replying to these mass mailings does not get you taken off their >list- in fact, I have been told >that this only shows them that your account is active, and puts you on future spam >lists. >Anyone hear the same thing? That's my understanding also- it is better to filter out what you can (I would love to be able to filter "Blind Carbon Copy" email (Loopers excepted, of course)) and simply delete unread what you can't. Marshall btw- sorry about the previous post, I hit "send" by mistake.... From ???@??? Thu Aug 13 23:25:31 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id SAA28860; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 18:12:18 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 18:12:18 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35D36536.75BB9E5E@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 15:14:15 -0700 From: lance glover Reply-To: baumhaus@earthlink.net Organization: treehouse X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Guitar Player review of EDP???? References: <009801bdc1c3$2cad99c0$b1f0ffd0@artmusic.gte> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Y15Xx3.0.xv6.sFsqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1073 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com future perfect wrote: > I was wondering if anyone had a copy of the Sept '95 issue of Guitar > Player, which has the review of the Plex in it. I already own a newer Plex, > but I'd still be interested in what they had to say. If anyone has a copy of > the review, and access to a scanner/photocopier, let me know! > Dave Eichenberger Ya, Dave I gots that issue (somewheres). I'll email a copy of it upon finding. Ciao -Lance G. From ???@??? Thu Aug 13 23:25:40 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id SAA02899; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 18:46:39 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 18:46:39 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980813222918.00d20030@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 15:29:18 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Re: Send Your Own Mass E-Mail-Complete Kit Resent-Message-ID: <"h2zgm3.0.lb.0msqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1074 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 05:53 PM 8/13/98 EDT, you wrote: > >In a message dated 8/13/98 12:48:15 PM, nyfac2@nyfac.com wrote: > >>I have heard that replying to these mass mailings does not get you taken off >their >>list- in fact, I have been told >>that this only shows them that your account is active, and puts you on future >spam >>lists. >>Anyone hear the same thing? > > >That's my understanding also- it is better to filter out what you can (I would >love to be able to filter "Blind Carbon Copy" email (Loopers excepted, of >course)) and simply delete unread what you can't. another course of action, if you are interested in fighting spam, is learning how to read mail headers. The "from" address in spam is always fake (so replying with "remove" is a waste of time, it will just bounce), but you can usually tell from the header the server/ISP where it originated. Then you contact the abuse department at that ISP and forward a copy of the spam, asking them to investigate. They will almost always close the account immediately. (and its such a nice feeling when they write back to let you know and say thanks!) You can also tell from the header which SMTP server the spammer used to send the mail. Usually they route to some unprotected mail server over the internet, and use it without permission to send the spam. If you contact the owner of that server (usually an inexperienced sysadmin) and let them know, they can upgrade the server and set it so spammers can't use it anymore. BTW, this doesn't work for spam sent to a mailing list like this, since the spam header gets stripped out by the mailing list software. The header you see will just show you that it originated at the mailing list account, and won't help you find the spammer at all. There is a lot of info online about this, unfortunately, I don't a a good list of links with me. Well, I guess I have one....Here's a place that's pretty good, and includes some cool online tools for investigating origins of spam mail, and has lots of info on decoding spam headers: http://www.blighty.com/spam/ anyway, have fun. If spam to the list starts becoming a problem, I can restrict it so that only subscribers can post. I didn't want to do that so far, since there are some folks out there who post useful stuff sometimes but aren't on the list anymore. kim ________________________________________________________ Kim Flint, MTS 408-752-9284 Chromatic Research kflint@chromatic.com http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Thu Aug 13 23:26:28 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id AAA12810; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 00:20:50 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 00:20:50 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: GRAIGORY2@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 00:16:16 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: New Problem With PC Sound Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"qs1JE3.0.P_2.bfxqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1075 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I am trying to use a receiver\amp instead of computer speakers... i had be previously using one of those smaller mini systems (with cd player, radio, and tape decks all in one) and that worked fine... now I want to use a regular amp.. Any suggestions? From ???@??? Thu Aug 13 23:26:40 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id BAA22296; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 01:41:46 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 01:41:46 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: RE: New Problem With PC Sound Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 22:12:25 -0700 Message-ID: <000001bdc745$76e2fc60$5d22dacf@stepheng> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"v46Zz2.0.uK5.Zqyqr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1076 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com GRAIGORY2@aol.com asked: > I am trying to use a receiver\amp instead of computer > speakers... i had been previously using one of those > smaller mini systems (with cd player, radio, and tape > decks all in one) and that worked fine... now I want to > use a regular amp.. Any suggestions? Get a cheap but quiet mixer that can accommodate both MIC and LINE INs. For Home, I hook up the line level output from the sound card via a stereo-miniplug-to-separate-RCA female adapter, to a shielded cable going to the DAT inputs on my receiver. For shows, I add an inexpensive mixer which accepts mic/line inputs, and output whatever the venue demands. On the level of having the systems connected together, I've had a blast utilizing the various settings offered for speaker configuration in Windows98. It's been fun tailoring material Just for the "hooked up" PC, some parts of which show up as the Loop Of The Week (sorry, couldn't help it, but it's true). Stephen Goodman * It's The Loop Of The Week! EarthLight Studios * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios From ???@??? Fri Aug 14 09:52:35 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id DAA30790; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 03:23:21 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 03:23:21 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: GRAIGORY2@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 03:18:12 EDT To: sgoodman@earthlight.net, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: New Problem With PC Sound Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"SDs8R1.0.vR7.HK-qr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1077 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Well.. right now, I have one end of the cord plugged into the SPEAKER OUT jack on my SOUNDBLASTER 16 soundcard... going out to the PHONO rca jacks on my TECHNICS receiver... you can hear a LOT of soundcard noise... I am using windows 95 if that is any help in you all helping me From ???@??? Fri Aug 14 09:52:40 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id DAB01001; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 03:57:21 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 03:57:21 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: RE: New Problem With PC Sound Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 00:52:23 -0700 Message-ID: <000c01bdc758$975dd380$6f3fdacf@stepheng> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"ZIjlh1.0.HA.oq-qr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1078 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Use the Line Out jack to go to your receiver. The Speaker Out jack is a higher output, for desktop speakers, as made some years ago... Also in your Creative Mixer software, you will find a way to attenuate the volume further just from the faders - but, if you right-click on a place not occupied by a switch or something, you'll see a Preferences menu pop up, from which you can choose Input / Output Settings. You can boost signal up to 4x in, AND out of the card. Stephen Goodman * It's The Loop Of The Week! EarthLight Studios * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios From ???@??? Fri Aug 14 09:53:06 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id KAA00568; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 10:30:06 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 10:30:06 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: From: David Kirkdorffer To: "earthblind, starbound" , Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: RE: Koan -- what the heck is it? Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 10:24:16 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"PgcXO3.0.d_7.la4rr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1079 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com KOAN is a software program. It can be used by non-musicians and musicians alike. It provides hundreds of parameters each controlling some factor in sound creation and that can each have multiple settings. Users can also set parameter "ranges" rather than pick exact values -- this helps build-in another element of randomness. My understanding is this -- users create music by setting up paramenters and letting the software take it from there. Each piece of music is unique. Pieces can be set up so they will never repeat the same way. It can communicate and coordinate with various other midi-software tools. That's about all I can tell you. Except it's got me so interested I may have to buy a computer and a midi-keyboard to see what it's all about!!! David > -----Original Message----- > From: earthblind, starbound [SMTP:afn39111@afn.org] > Sent: Thursday, August 13, 1998 2:26 PM > To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Subject: Re: Koan -- what the heck is it? > > After making it past the blank opening page at the koan website, I still > can't figure out what Koan is. I see huge feature lists and hype but no > description of what you DO with the program. From the screenshots > it looks like an difficult midi program ala Cakewalk w/o the (rather > unfortunate) staff view, but some of the hype tries to make it sound more > like Acid. > > What is it? A 2 meg demo is a bit much for me to work on w/o any info, > especially considering the slowness of the site and my 1 hour limit for > downloads. > > - Against a Sickness: To the Female Double Principle God > http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Atrium/4664 From ???@??? Fri Aug 14 09:53:08 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id KAA02309; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 10:42:08 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 10:42:08 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: GRAIGORY2@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 10:37:18 EDT To: sgoodman@earthlight.net, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: New Problem With PC Sound Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"sPeOS1.0.GS.rl4rr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1080 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com OK... This morning before I read your email, I tested out the status of sound quality on the INPUT side... I have a few pieces of equiptment (keyboard, DJ setup w\mixer, drum machine, and separate turntable for taking samples) all going into a stereo mixer... which I have going out to a TEAC Stereo Graphic Equalizer (EQA-20).. which I obviously use to equalize the sound going into the computer... now, this sounds GREAT!!! I have the equalizer going into the MICROPHONE jack of my soundcard... I'm going to try what you said also... From ???@??? Fri Aug 14 09:53:19 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA11991; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 11:53:08 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 11:53:08 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35D45AFE.39A9EEC0@coastlink.com> Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 09:42:54 -0600 From: "Dan Gebben" Reply-To: dano@coastlink.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Roland sp-808 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Fv-hr.0.ul2.cn5rr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1082 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Anyone picked up the Roland sp-808 yet? I have been trying to find a review of the thing (not written by Roland), and have had no luck. My own tinkering with the sp-808 in shops has not turned up any negatives yet. However, I am not much more than a novice in this area. Anyone with any info please respond. Can't believe Roland may have designed something that is not going to come up short somewhere down the line. Dano From ???@??? Fri Aug 14 09:53:23 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA14286; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 12:07:24 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 12:07:24 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 12:01:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Adam Levin X-Sender: alevin@ari.ari.net To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Dark Aether Project September mini-tour Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"GpUFJ3.0.mJ3.6_5rr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1084 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com The Dark Aether Project is: Adam Levin: Warr 8 String Touch Style Guitar/Loops Yaman Aksu: Fretted and Fretless Guitars/Guitar Synth Brian Griffin: Drums Guest vocalists: # Jason Wilson (Emerald Tiers) * Ray Weston (Echolyn/Still/Always Almost) "...jazz-inflected, often minimalistic...foreboding soundscape[s]... classy...offers mature musicianship without pretentiousness." - John Collinge, Progression Magazine "...intense and blistering lead work...amazing loops and shimmering textures that are at once haunting and dreamlike...worthy of attention." - Peter Thelen, Expose 9/4 - Local 506 - 506 West Franklin St. Chapel Hill NC * with Ozone Quartet and Smokin' Granny 9/8 - Phantasmagoria - 11319 Elkin St. Wheaton MD (Washington DC area) # with Flower Kings (from Sweden) 9/12 - Orion Studios - 2903 Whittington Ave. Baltimore, MD # with A Piedi Nudi (from Italy) and Par Lindh Project (from Sweden) 9/19 - LionFish - 614 N. 2nd St. Philadelphia, PA * with Three Hour Detour (From New Jersey) As always, you can visit The Dark Aether Project Web Site at http://www.darkaether.net/ for directions to the venues, news updates, soundbites from the debut CD and more. -Adam --- "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue, out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one becomes a Hearer." - Chandrakirti T h e D a r k A e t h e r P r o j e c t http://www.darkaether.net/ From ???@??? Fri Aug 14 09:53:22 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA13816; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 12:04:33 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 12:04:33 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <00d401bdc79e$0ad47d60$c5b854ce@mark.asisoftware.com> From: Mark@asisoftware.com (Mark Kata) To: , Subject: Re: Suggestions, advice, help! Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 12:10:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"EeEOm3.0.3D3.ny5rr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1083 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hi Michael, Here are a few suggestions off the top of my head: 1. Market pressures vs. The original vision of the product and what actually is produced. 2. The trend toward "analog-like" interfaces (knobs and sliders that work in real time) on digital gear. 3. Product documentation. Why do so many product manuals provide accurate technical information about each function of a product, but no practical suggestions on how to get the sound you have in your head out of it? 4. Presets. Why do so many musicians settle for the presets in digital gear without ever learning how to create their own sounds? 5. The retro trend. Why design digital gear to sound like analog gear? Why not make it sound completely different from analog gear? 6. Does music technology automatically imply that hardware and software will become obsolete? I hope these help. Mark Kata Mark@asisoftware.com -----Original Message----- From: Michael Pycraft Hughes To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Friday, August 14, 1998 11:16 AM Subject: Suggestions, advice, help! >I'm applying for a lectureship in Music Technology at my university. > >What I'd like from you lot is suggestions for possible research themes. I >have ideas of what I'd like to do, but I'm interested in what people out >there feel is where MT needs to go next. > >Also, you industry types, my case would be VASTLY strengthened by the >suggestion of industrial collaboration. I'm currently in negotiation on >behalf of the current MT course director to get some research by a major >company (I can't say who at this point, but they're a major group at >Harman). We have a wide research base here at Glasgow, and I'm sure we >could work towards something of mutual benefit. > >Closing date is a week today, so get in touch soon! > >Thanks, > >Michael > >Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes, University of Glasgow, Glasgow UK G12 8QQ >-------------------------------------------------------------------- > "What can be done with fewer assumptions is done in vain >with more" - William of Occam (1285-1347) (now called Occam's Razor) >-------------------------------------------------------------------- > www.elec.gla.ac.uk/~pycraft pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk > From ???@??? Fri Aug 14 11:00:49 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA21901; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 12:55:39 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 12:55:39 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 12:50:38 -0400 (EDT) From: David Talento X-Sender: legion@unix01 To: "Looper's Delight" Subject: FS: Casio 510 Midi guitar (Beauty) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"tyqRS2.0.cB5.Oi6rr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1086 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I just got a second Casio that needs some work so I am selling my better one... This is the model 510 all black Strat copy guitar in *excellent* shape. Unlike later 510 and 500 models this has more solid construction in the electronics (wired to use two 9vt batteries - Included:)), has two single coil and one humbucker EMG pickups (gold lettering -not OEM versions), and has one volume two tone knobs. The body and pickguard are jet black and the neck is Maple with rosewood 22-fret fingerboard; graphite low-friction nut. A real Black Beauty this instrument has never gigged and in fact has never left the studio where it has been sealed in the lined gig bag since I got it. For those that aren't aware of the Casio midi Guitar Pro series: The midi electronics and tracking are far superior to any of the Roland or Ibanez systems in my experience. It is the only system that uses a built in midi pickup and simply has a midi out coming out the bottom as opposed to all the GK whatever and esoteric cables of the other systems. It's simply Plug and play with midi. The Midi implementation is also top notch in features and construction. Some features: Octave Switch - small toggle with Normal, +1, -1 allows you to change octaves right from the guitar. midi Volume knob- Control right on the guitar that allows you to adjust the midi volume via CC message. 6 trimpots for tracking -(Adjusts each string individually) Program change messages - This is the coolest feature IMO. You toggle to program change mode and hit a note on one of the first four strings. Each fret corresponds to a specific program number so you can remotely change patchs on your midi synth or sound module. Mono/Poly mode - Allows you to set all strings to operate on one channel (you set it 1-16) or will let each string send info on successive midi channels allwoing you to control 6 different channels at once. (ie: First string send on channel 1, 2nd on channel 2, etc..) There is a lot more and I can send a graphic of the design and midi section if anyone is interested. Basically this is the nicest midi guitar I have seen and in particular this one is in top shape and is the better of the model 510s as well. It has a much better feel than the 500 I just got IMO and If you are familiar with these units then you know it is an excellent "analog" guitar as well. As a matter of fact I have used it for recording quite a bit without any midi at all. more info can be found at this link: http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock/casmgtr.htm I paid $400 plus shipping and that's what I'd like to get out of it. Given recent prices I've seen for lesser instruments in worse condition i believe that's pretty fair but I'll consider reasonable offers and certainly trades. A high quality felt lined gig bag is available separately as well. Will consider trades for small or esoteric items, Effects, synths, weird guitars, and the like. All deals must be confirmed via phone so send your # to speed things up if you'd like. Email with any questions or if you'd like to see the diagram. Thanks! Legion@voicenet.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- HELP WANTED PRODUCTIONS - Http://www.voicenet.com/~legion "Bringing you the best in Organic Electronic music since we started..." Home of the Unusual Instrument and Recording Gallery with pictures and info of Tube recorders, Omnichords, weird guitars, Casios, and more. From ???@??? Fri Aug 14 11:00:51 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA22653; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 12:59:13 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 12:59:13 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35D46C22.9940831B@intcpi.com> Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 12:56:03 -0400 From: "John Price" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Suggestions, advice, help! References: <3.0.1.16.19980814170128.1c9f58ba@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"k7Sbi1.0.tH5.sk6rr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1087 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I think Brian Eno was dead on the shape of the immediate future when somewhere a few years ago ... ( Methinks it was Wired Magazine ) he mentioned his concept of a having a little black box that would generate his musical ideas on its own with no input whatsoever coming from him. According to my sketchy memory of what Eno said, this box would play out possible scenarios based on a database and some type of algorhythms of his thought processes that would approximate stuff he would most likely come up with and could generate hybrids of other musicians possible output if desired. Imagine having a box that could output possibilities of say Hayden, Prince, Miles Davis, or Zap Mamma either individually or combined together all at once. I can also see recod labels loving the concept a little too much as I can certainly see a wide array of business avenues for such a thing ( Radio, Muzak, Movies, Record & Tape Clubs, TV, Theater, Home, Work, etc). My perspective is you can have software or some type of tool that has keys to unlock different artists mindscapes, ya know ??? Theres no question there would be a demand for a box like what Eno wuz thinkin. Thats something that would be both negative and positive used to either complement and or supplant recording musicians/music(s)/dj's. Though its a very logical next step if you look at the changing nature of how people value or rather listen to and internalize music. I don't know from a technical standpoint how reaalistic something of this sort would be but I really like the concept ( Its like having a clone ) and I would probably be engaged by a product that met the concept at least 65% of the way beyond say thr random genration of existing .wav files. Regards, JP Michael Pycraft Hughes wrote: > I'm applying for a lectureship in Music Technology at my university. > > What I'd like from you lot is suggestions for possible research themes. I > have ideas of what I'd like to do, but I'm interested in what people out > there feel is where MT needs to go next. > > Also, you industry types, my case would be VASTLY strengthened by the > suggestion of industrial collaboration. I'm currently in negotiation on > behalf of the current MT course director to get some research by a major > company (I can't say who at this point, but they're a major group at > Harman). We have a wide research base here at Glasgow, and I'm sure we > could work towards something of mutual benefit. > > Closing date is a week today, so get in touch soon! > > Thanks, > > Michael > > Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes, University of Glasgow, Glasgow UK G12 8QQ > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > "What can be done with fewer assumptions is done in vain > with more" - William of Occam (1285-1347) (now called Occam's Razor) > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > www.elec.gla.ac.uk/~pycraft pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk From ???@??? Fri Aug 14 23:37:49 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA32765; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 14:07:04 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 14:07:04 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980814183119.19af381c@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> References: <00d401bdc79e$0ad47d60$c5b854ce@mark.asisoftware.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 10:35:41 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: MIDI question Resent-Message-ID: <"GbNNC1.0.Hq7.Il7rr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1089 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 6:31 PM -0700 8/14/98, Michael Pycraft Hughes wrote: don't know the answers to the first questions, without doing the work myself....I just tell programmers what to do, I don't normally have to do it myself....:-) >Further, MIDI 1.0 spec. defines 0 as voltage high and 1 as voltage low >(???), contrary to the way I've always thought of it.... does that mean >that the line is transmitting 1's when it's not sending anything? midi is active-low. the signal idles at 5V, which is a 0. it drives low to represent a 1. Not very unusual, really. >But anyway, I figure this is basically what gets sent at 31.25kHz... is >that about right? yep, it pokes along at that rate. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Fri Aug 14 23:37:48 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA32048; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 14:03:06 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 14:03:06 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 10:58:30 -0700 (PDT) From: N To: Dan Gebben cc: "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: Roland sp-808 In-Reply-To: <35D45AFE.39A9EEC0@coastlink.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"TQdw12.0.Uh7.7i7rr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1088 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I'd considered getting one, but... Do a side by side with a sampler that doesn't have data compression. It depends totally on what you want to do with it. I thought it was more fun than the Ensoniq ASR-X (whose prices will soon drop) and Akai MPC2000, but its pads are not velocity sensitive and it uses Zip disks (expensive. The SCSI option allows b-up only to Zip, and possible Jaz) and cannot import other sample formats (Akai, WAV, etc.), though you can sample directly off CD's/your computer with the SCSI option (inlucdes digital i/o). I felt if you could run it off a battery pack, it would make a cool scratch pad. Try www.SoundonSound.com, in Japan, if you're sure you want it, or buy locally if you're thinking of returning it. N On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Dan Gebben wrote: > Anyone picked up the Roland sp-808 yet? I have been trying to find a > review of the thing (not written by Roland), and have had no luck. My > own tinkering with the sp-808 in shops has not turned up any negatives > yet. However, I am not much more than a novice in this area. Anyone > with any info please respond. Can't believe Roland may have designed > something that is not going to come up short somewhere down the line. > > Dano > > From ???@??? Fri Aug 14 23:37:50 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA00575; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 14:10:07 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 14:10:07 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 11:04:41 -0700 (PDT) From: N To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Suggestions, advice, help! In-Reply-To: <35D46C22.9940831B@intcpi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"nrKWA3.0.Cy7.vn7rr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1090 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com It's much cheaper for them to hire musicians. They'd still have to hire fashion models (think Robert Palmer, "Addicted to Love") to promote it; musicians are much cheaper. N On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, John Price wrote: > I can also see recod labels loving the concept a little too much as I can > certainly see a wide array of business avenues for such a thing ( Radio, > Muzak, Movies, Record & Tape Clubs, TV, Theater, Home, Work, etc). My > perspective is you can have software or some type of tool that has keys to > unlock different artists mindscapes, ya know ??? From ???@??? Fri Aug 14 23:38:00 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA04149; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 14:28:44 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 14:28:44 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Old-X-Envelope-To: Message-ID: <01BDC775.BCA3E2C0.lahatch@dnai.com> From: Laurie Hatch To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: Little Black Box Composers (was: Suggestions, advice, help!) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 11:20:45 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"29HW9.0.6v.h48rr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1091 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From: John Price [SMTP:jprice@intcpi.com] >Sent: Friday, August 14, 1998 9:56 AM > >I think Brian Eno was dead on the shape of the immediate future when somewhere >a few years ago ... ( Methinks it was Wired Magazine ) he mentioned his >concept of a having a little black box that would generate his musical ideas >on its own with no input whatsoever coming from him. [snip...] Interesting that you mention this, John...Coincidentally, last night I was reading an online news article about David Cope, U of California at Santa Cruz professor of music theory, who created a computer program called "EMI". It analyzes an individual's compositional style, then creates new pieces utilizing that data. Good reading all the way to the end. http://www.sjmercury.com/west/docs/composer0524.htm laurie From ???@??? Fri Aug 14 23:38:09 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA12181; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 15:20:29 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 15:20:29 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 15:15:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199808141915.PAA18694@shell.monmouth.com> X-Sender: andre@mail.monmouth.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: andre Subject: Re: FS: Casio 510 Midi guitar (Beauty) Resent-Message-ID: <"IlIbu1.0.kr2.tq8rr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1092 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com hey man... i'm pretty interested in the 510... they do rule! hmm... i may be into an outright buy, but a buy/trade sounds good too!! for trade i have - Roland MSQ 70 sequencer (first MIDI sequencer) great for LONG loops!! - Akai Arpeggiator/Sequencer (single space weird item) - maybe even my Roland MSQ 100 sequencer (sigh) - Roland/Boss original Dr Beat drum machine - Boss 1/2 space rack phaser Talk to me andre' 732-747-6448 till 830pm fri 8/14, also can lv msg 732-530-7297 weekends and nights after 9pm till 2am all times eastern peace! From ???@??? Fri Aug 14 23:38:13 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA14364; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 15:34:54 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 15:34:54 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: GRAIGORY2@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 15:30:11 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: FS: Casio 510 Midi guitar (Beauty) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"a0FzW1.0.tN3.Z29rr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1093 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com yea yo... im selling my ALESIS SR-16...any offers? From ???@??? Fri Aug 14 09:53:12 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA06848; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 11:15:29 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 11:15:29 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980814170128.1c9f58ba@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> X-Sender: pycraft@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 17:01:28 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Michael Pycraft Hughes Subject: Suggestions, advice, help! In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"_hI663.0.lZ1.fF5rr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1081 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I'm applying for a lectureship in Music Technology at my university. What I'd like from you lot is suggestions for possible research themes. I have ideas of what I'd like to do, but I'm interested in what people out there feel is where MT needs to go next. Also, you industry types, my case would be VASTLY strengthened by the suggestion of industrial collaboration. I'm currently in negotiation on behalf of the current MT course director to get some research by a major company (I can't say who at this point, but they're a major group at Harman). We have a wide research base here at Glasgow, and I'm sure we could work towards something of mutual benefit. Closing date is a week today, so get in touch soon! Thanks, Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes, University of Glasgow, Glasgow UK G12 8QQ -------------------------------------------------------------------- "What can be done with fewer assumptions is done in vain with more" - William of Occam (1285-1347) (now called Occam's Razor) -------------------------------------------------------------------- www.elec.gla.ac.uk/~pycraft pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk From ???@??? Fri Aug 14 09:53:38 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA20305; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 12:46:00 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 12:46:00 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980814183119.19af381c@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> X-Sender: pycraft@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 18:31:19 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Michael Pycraft Hughes Subject: MIDI question In-Reply-To: <00d401bdc79e$0ad47d60$c5b854ce@mark.asisoftware.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"kMrIJ.0._o4.tZ6rr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1085 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I'm learning the rudiments of MIDI programming (very quickly!); I've decided I might try to build (or at least, plan) a basic JamMan footcontroller over the weekend. My question is this - The book I have says that a Program change message is 2 bytes; a status byte and a data byte. The first status nibble is 1100 (Prog. Change), second is the channel (0001 in the case of the JamMan), and the data byte is the target program (I guess0000 0001) with a 0 at the to start and 1 to terminate. So am I right in thinking "change program to no. 1 on channel 1" reads as 01100 00011 00000 00011 and change to program 2 reads 01101 00011 00000 00101 etc? This then gets transmitted little-ended, so the receiver sees 10100 00000 11000 10110 right? Further, MIDI 1.0 spec. defines 0 as voltage high and 1 as voltage low (???), contrary to the way I've always thought of it.... does that mean that the line is transmitting 1's when it's not sending anything? But anyway, I figure this is basically what gets sent at 31.25kHz... is that about right? Thanks all, Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes, University of Glasgow, Glasgow UK G12 8QQ -------------------------------------------------------------------- "What can be done with fewer assumptions is done in vain with more" - William of Occam (1285-1347) (now called Occam's Razor) -------------------------------------------------------------------- www.elec.gla.ac.uk/~pycraft pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk From ???@??? Sat Aug 15 01:04:18 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id DAA13189; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 03:51:53 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 03:51:53 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 03:47:40 -0400 From: Andreas Willers Subject: Suggestions, advice, help! Sender: Andreas Willers To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Message-ID: <199808150348_MC2-5623-2CD5@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"mmAO-1.0.e93.lrJrr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1094 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Michael, I think generally more user-friendliness and flexibility up to the point of individual customizing of algorythms etc. maybe via computer interface is a good thing to work towards. And to get rid of the bulky 19" format... Best, Andreas From ???@??? Sat Aug 15 11:41:18 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id GAA20495; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 06:41:46 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 06:41:46 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980815103719.006cf2c8@mail.dada.it> X-Sender: cavallo@mail.dada.it (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 12:37:19 +0200 To: From: Leonardo Cavallo Subject: INFO REQUEST to David Torn Resent-Message-ID: <"llKfr1.0.5z4.JLMrr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1095 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Sorry guys but I've no more his address. Hey David I'd like to submit my groove editing work to Sonic Foundry for their latest ACID sample CDs. Any advice about who I have to contact? On their site there are only sales e-mails... Can you help me? Any suggestions? thank you ciao leo From ???@??? Sat Aug 15 11:41:56 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA08830; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 12:11:55 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 12:11:55 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: dmgraph@mail.bway.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <35D46C22.9940831B@intcpi.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19980814170128.1c9f58ba@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 11:59:15 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: David Myers Subject: Black boxes Resent-Message-ID: <"Kuvje3.0.6u1.k0Rrr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1097 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >According to my sketchy memory of what Eno said, this box would play out >possible scenarios based on a database and some type of algorhythms of his >thought processes that would approximate stuff he would most likely come up >with and could generate hybrids of other musicians possible output if desired. > >Imagine having a box that could output possibilities of say Hayden, Prince, >Miles Davis, or Zap Mamma either individually or combined together all at >once. >From what I can gather, Eno seems to have something close to this in Koan. I'm a Mac user, and frankly the computer as music tool is something not to my taste anyway, so I have not tried Koan. But every "algorythmic composer" or "generative" music program--maybe every music program, period--I've ever seen functions on some basic assumptions of what music is. I feel that it is a mildewed european conceit which describes music as 1) a sort of map (score) which calls for specific pitches, durations, and perhaps volumes, coupled with 2) specific sound bites which are to be plugged into the positions on the map. Generative software may do a very interesting job within such a framework, juggling note descriptions and sounds which speak for them, but that's all it can do, and to me it's a terrible bore. I feel that MIDI is a curse which has extended the reign of these dead europeans' ghosts. Even most improvised music can be said to be a part of this scheme, since such a performance can be recorded and retroactively notated in the same way. The "compositional" process is different, but the framework is the same, notes and sounds. One reason I subscribe to this list (since literal looping is something I do little of anymore) is that some people here sense that music is somehow more than a symbol calling for a sound. We've got a lot of nifty tools now that might allow us to find new structures and ways of working, new types of sounds which can't be contained in a written map, a synthesizer patch or static sample. But I don't see any computer software or black box which even tries to circumvent the tired old concepts of music that we've been stuck with for centuries. I wish someone could tell me I'm mistaken. Is there something truly interesting out there? David Myers ____________________________________ "Eternity is not limited by the conditions of time, and time is eternal in virtue of its cyclic recurrence." -Hermetica, Asclepius III From ???@??? Sat Aug 15 11:42:07 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA18029; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 14:16:06 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 14:16:06 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: RE: FireWire Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 10:41:12 -0700 Message-ID: <001301bdc873$ed271e40$5422dacf@stepheng> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980815140524.1a77874e@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"WxarK1.0.Kk3.GYSrr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1098 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Michael Pycraft Hughes [mailto:pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk] asked: > Out of interest, has anyone started working on a MIDI > replacement based around FireWire? While we've been reading about FireWire for some years now, it hasn't become the broadly accepted process that we all hoped, perhaps because of the unfortunate practice of what I call "Beta-ism"; it's not like FireWire's been licensed to too many vendors, nor have tech specs been released to the general public so that They can make devices that use it too. Sony home components have been sporting a FW-like port in their backs for several years also, but even they seem ambivalent with respect to propagation of this potentially nice method of linking everything up. At a low end effort, even MIDI could be transposed upon it, with no data changes beyond the transport/protocol. But of course that would require a mega-committee that can't even agree who belongs, to convene about THAT. Which could also be a good reason why we've heard mostly theory about FW, and a smattering of products. Well, that's it then. They're all dragging their heels, folks. Who wants to figure out how to transpose MIDI onto Ethernet? It's THERE already, and a standard worldwide... and could provide REAL "convergence", to use this year's overused buzzword. Stephen Goodman * It's The Loop Of The Week! EarthLight Studios * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios From ???@??? Sat Aug 15 19:16:04 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id UAA13600; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 20:56:46 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 20:56:46 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Sender: mpeters@csi.com Message-ID: <01BDC8BD.93A5C250.mpeters@csi.com> From: Michael Peters To: "'Loopers Delight'" Subject: musique concrete Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 20:01:58 +0200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-Mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"TmEBq3.0.Ow2.1ZYrr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1106 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com for those people interested in the history of looping: my little looping history article on the website mentions musique concrete very briefly. A very nice extensive article about this topic can be found in the August issue of WIRE (not Wired). One other thing I found in the same magazine is that there are tape loops on Herbie Hancock's 1973 album SEXTANT (reissued on Sony recently) - the loops contained sound generated by a device called Random Resonator which was developed by a certain Tom Oberheim ... anyone know this guy? * michael peters mpeters@csi.com * "escape veloopity" electronic guitar loop music * http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Mpeters From ???@??? Sat Aug 15 13:07:48 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA21257; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 14:51:51 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 14:51:51 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199808151833.OAA03406@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: Re: Black boxes,, The Curse Called MIDI... Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 14:29:14 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"PlQEf1.0.np4.pITrr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1099 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > From: David Myers > To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Subject: Black boxes ......... a Mac user, and frankly the computer as music tool is something not to > my taste anyway, so I have not tried Koan. But every "algorythmic > composer" or "generative" music program--maybe every music program, > period--I've ever seen functions on some basic assumptions of what music is. ............> terrible bore. I feel that MIDI is a curse which has extended the reign of > these dead europeans' ghosts. ..hmm. how is MIDI any more of a curse than , say, electricity - which is truly at the root of all this mildewed computer music..??? Why does everyone always blame crappy music, "bad" sounds, non-original ideas, etc, on a simple switching/info carrying protocol. with all this worrying, I'm continually amazed we even have time to.......PLAY ! When i use MIDI to simply switch my gear from a clean reverby patch to a chorusy distorto patch, or a synth from bells to organ..... how is the mechanism doing that a curse ?? I just get antsy with such generalizations, i guess. Who exactly anointed MIDI as the catch all that would do everything including read our minds at 500 GHz ??? It seems any performance short of that deems it worthy of the trash heap. *Sigh* From ???@??? Sat Aug 15 13:07:51 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA22841; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 15:13:53 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 15:13:53 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: PMimlitsch@aol.com Message-ID: <9547308b.35d5d912@aol.com> Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 14:53:05 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Black boxes Content-type: text/plain X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 84 Resent-Message-ID: <"g0Qqe3.0.eE5.kbTrr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1100 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 8/15/98 4:11:20 PM, you wrote: <> Yes, I think so (or maybe I'm just easily impressed/amused :) ). Check out Eric Wengers' audio synth (sampler, wave shaper, procedural synth etc.) program "Metasynth" and his newly released midi sequencer (that can exchange files with Metasynth) "Xx". Downloadable demos/soundfiles etc. can be found at <> There's a Metasynth "Music Gallery" at: <> Right now Metasynth is basically a compositional tool (although I have used it by 'Vortexturizing" loops composed in Metasynth that serve as "soundscapes" for improv.- Warr/Stick/Loops). I recently talked to an Arboretum software rep. about whether or not Metasynth would ever become a real time instrument with the ability to "paint" pre/post curser on each loop pass and also be able to trigger fade/hold of previously "painted" passes (ala: Lex. J'man etc.). He hinted that this was one the things that (I sent Eric Wenger a similar query but haven't heard back yet) was being worked on. At any rate check it out I think it's "interesting" - Paul From ???@??? Sat Aug 15 15:39:27 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA29413; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 16:38:44 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 16:38:44 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <19980815201935.29822.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [12.11.140.34] From: "Dennis Coggia" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: And Eno said........ Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 13:19:35 PDT Resent-Message-ID: <"mJq7r2.0.to6.bsUrr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1101 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com It is not my intention to reopen this discussion, but here is something that might be of interest to this group. I can't remember the exact quote but here goes: If you think of art as the name of a type of interaction between you and something else as opposed to a quality in something, it frees you from all sorts of problems. For example, you don't have to decide whether something is or is not art, only if that does it for some people people. Some Art, like a hit single, will do it for a million people for a month, other art, like a cathedral, will do it for several thousand people for several hundred years. On a more or less unrelated topic, would some kind folks please recommend a David Torn disc for a introduction. I have heard Polytown which I like, but would like to hear more looping. Thanks, Dennis ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Sat Aug 15 11:41:23 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id IAA24340; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 08:19:08 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 08:19:08 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980815140524.1a77874e@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> X-Sender: pycraft@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 14:05:24 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Michael Pycraft Hughes Subject: FireWire In-Reply-To: <35D49894.7F5DE3B5@magelang.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"682jQ3.0.Qv5.WmNrr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1096 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Thanks to everyone for sending suggestions! Out of interest, has anyone started working on a MIDI replacement based around FireWire? Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes, University of Glasgow, Glasgow UK G12 8QQ -------------------------------------------------------------------- "What can be done with fewer assumptions is done in vain with more" - William of Occam (1285-1347) (now called Occam's Razor) -------------------------------------------------------------------- www.elec.gla.ac.uk/~pycraft pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk From ???@??? Sat Aug 15 15:39:28 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id SAA02085; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 18:09:06 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 18:09:06 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35D604D7.18AB4C96@bellsouth.net> Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 17:59:52 -0400 From: Jeff Duke X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: And Eno said........ References: <19980815201935.29822.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8qT-r.0.EL.wIWrr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1102 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Dennis, I wouldn't want to comment on art, too dangerous and I don't like fish. One recomendation on a Torn disc is Cloud About Mercury. I don't know if it is still availiable. His web site is down still but there is a temp page with some sound clips. Its at http://www.jeffy.org/torn/ and at Elephant Tape http://www.geocities.com/~kenzak/etape/ there is some songs up from his solo albums and from Bruford Levin Upper Extremities with whom he is the guitarist. Also there is a live concert of B.L.U.E at live concerts.com. http://www.liveconcerts.com/listening/concerts/980419/Bruford_Levin_Upper_Extremities/. I have dug DTs music for quite awhile. Hope this helps. Jeff http://members.xoom.com/echo17/tbl.html Dennis Coggia wrote: > It is not my intention to reopen this discussion, but here is something > that might be of interest to this group. I can't remember the exact > quote but here goes: If you think of art as the name of a type of > interaction between you and something else as opposed to a quality in > something, it frees you from all sorts of problems. For example, you > don't have to decide whether something is or is not art, only if that > does it for some people people. Some Art, like a hit single, will do it > for a million people for a month, other art, like a cathedral, will do > it for several thousand people for several hundred years. > On a more or less unrelated topic, would some kind folks please > recommend a David Torn disc for a introduction. I have heard Polytown > which I like, but would like to hear more looping. > Thanks, Dennis > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Sat Aug 15 16:48:18 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA05612; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 19:06:34 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 19:06:34 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980815224431.00712e4c@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 15:44:31 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint (by way of Kim Flint ) Subject: RE: FireWire Resent-Message-ID: <"bi0wH3.0.781.X4Xrr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1104 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 10:41 AM -0700 8/15/98, Stephen P. Goodman wrote: >Michael Pycraft Hughes [mailto:pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk] asked: > >> Out of interest, has anyone started working on a MIDI >> replacement based around FireWire? > >While we've been reading about FireWire for some years now, it hasn't become >the broadly accepted process that we all hoped, perhaps because of the >unfortunate practice of what I call "Beta-ism"; it's not like FireWire's >been licensed to too many vendors, nor have tech specs been released to the >general public so that They can make devices that use it too. huh????? firewire is a publicly available standard, IEEE1394. You don't need to license anything to use it. Several vendors have firewire nearly fully integrated in ICs. TI, for example, has numerous different firewire parts, I think including a single chip solution that connects directly to a PCI bus. It's quite easy to implement, and getting much cheaper. The reason it's not everywhere is just simple economics, the demand hasn't been great enough to bring prices down to where it's appropriate for low-cost PC's and consumer devices. It's getting pretty close now though. Microsoft will be including direct support for 1394 in windows in an upcoming service release (making it even easier, you can still do it now with more software effort), and it's expected that they will require 1394 for windows logo approval in their hardware design "guide" for 2000. (that means that if you want to sell a PC with the "approved for windows" logo, you have to include it after July 1, 2000. that's one way in which microsoft/intel control the industry. The industry follows these "guides" religiously, because if you don't you lose all your business.) Microsoft and Intel have a whole chapter devoted to 1394 in the PC'99 System Design Guide doc, where 1394 is "strongly recommended". They even state that this will be upgraded to "required" in the next version. In other words, Microsoft and Intel are pushing this hard now. (so is compaq, actually...) Of course, Apple has pushed it for years, but that doesn't really mean anything. >Sony home components have been sporting a FW-like port in their backs for >several years also, but even they seem ambivalent with respect to >propagation of this potentially nice method of linking everything up. At a >low end effort, even MIDI could be transposed upon it, with no data changes >beyond the transport/protocol. But of course that would require a >mega-committee that can't even agree who belongs, to convene about THAT. >Which could also be a good reason why we've heard mostly theory about FW, >and a smattering of products. The Audio Engineering Society has working groups for defining audio transmission and audio system control over 1394. These have been in place for quite some time. I believe they have this more or less done and are hashing out arcane details. Yamaha has independently developed mLAN, which is an audio network using 1394, I think they may have even used some of that for the AES standard. I beleive the Midi Manufacturer's Association also has a working group defining MIDI over USB and 1394. All of these standards efforts have been going on for some time now. I don't follow it too closely, but as far as I know the work is mostly done and awaiting more common adoption of the 1394 interface. >Well, that's it then. They're all dragging their heels, folks. as noted, the industry is clearly not dragging any heels. As consumer needs for higher bandwidth transmission grow, the demand for 1394 has grown, and it's steadily getting here. The "they" in your sentence is really you....if people aren't lining up to buy it, nobody's going to rush to make it. >Who wants >to figure out how to transpose MIDI onto Ethernet? It's THERE already, and >a standard worldwide... and could provide REAL "convergence", to use this >year's overused buzzword. > The trouble with Ethernet is it's a non-deterministic network architecture, and you can't guarantee arrival times of any data sent over it. For audio, this means dropouts, and for midi (or some similar control protocol), it means lots of synchronization and timing problems. This is why network architectures like ATM and 1394 are being adopted for these purposes instead of ethernet. anyway, speak from what you know, it's safer...:-) kim From ???@??? Sat Aug 15 16:05:06 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA05210; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 19:01:23 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 19:01:23 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 15:46:02 -0700 (PDT) From: N To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: FS. Lexicon Vortex (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"dAxa71.0.041.R_Wrr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1103 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 13 Aug 1998 10:23:46 GMT From: KelRey Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth Subject: FS. Lexicon Vortex FS. Lexicon Vortex Excellent condition with 2 lexicon foot pedals, manual and orginal packing. I never use it. $275/BO plus shipping. Email if interested From ???@??? Sat Aug 15 19:15:57 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id UAA11853; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 20:31:47 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 20:31:47 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980816001340.0071a1f8@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 17:13:40 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Black boxes Resent-Message-ID: <"tFFAX2.0.Lg2.6OYrr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1105 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 11:59 AM 8/15/98 -0500, David Myers wrote: > >I'm a Mac user, and frankly the computer as music tool is something not to >my taste anyway, so I have not tried Koan. But every "algorythmic >composer" or "generative" music program--maybe every music program, >period--I've ever seen functions on some basic assumptions of what music is. > >I feel that it is a mildewed european conceit which describes music as 1) a >sort of map (score) which calls for specific pitches, durations, and >perhaps volumes, coupled with 2) specific sound bites which are to be >plugged into the positions on the map. >But I don't see any computer software or black box which >even tries to circumvent the tired old concepts of music that we've been >stuck with for centuries. Hey David, sounds like your next medium for developing instruments might be software? In other words, defining the problem is a key first step, the next is either solving it or complaining a lot, eh? >I wish someone could tell me I'm mistaken. Is there something truly >interesting out there? > >David Myers nope, you may want to get busy with a new DIY project! Otherwise you may be in for a long wait while a million hackers bang on computer keyboards.... kim _________________________________________________________ Kim Flint, MTS kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research 408-752-9284 http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Sat Aug 15 19:16:13 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id VAA15210; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 21:15:30 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 21:15:30 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Sender: mpeters@csi.com Message-ID: <01BDC8BF.3EFD5360.mpeters@csi.com> From: Michael Peters To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: Re: Torn Loops (was: And Eno said........) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 02:40:14 +0200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-Mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cuS-b1.0.S63.KjYrr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1107 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > On a more or less unrelated topic, would some kind folks please > recommend a David Torn disc for a introduction. I have heard Polytown > which I like, but would like to hear more looping. for more looping get Tripping Over God, which is my personal favourite. Then, if you have lots of money, get DT's pure loop CDs Tonal Textures and Pandora's Box, both of which are available as expensive sample CDs from Q-Up Arts. * michael peters mpeters@csi.com * "escape veloopity" electronic guitar loop music * http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Mpeters From ???@??? Sat Aug 15 19:16:17 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id VAA16384; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 21:30:27 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 21:30:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980816010914.006e7720@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 18:09:14 -0700 To: From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Black boxes,, The Curse Called MIDI... Resent-Message-ID: <"cY9vA3.0.gl3.DCZrr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1108 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 02:29 PM 8/15/98 -0400, andre wrote: >a Mac user, and frankly the computer as music tool is something not to >> my taste anyway, so I have not tried Koan. But every "algorythmic >> composer" or "generative" music program--maybe every music program, >> period--I've ever seen functions on some basic assumptions of what music >is. >............> terrible bore. I feel that MIDI is a curse which has >extended the reign of >> these dead europeans' ghosts. > >..hmm. how is MIDI any more of a curse than , say, electricity - which is >truly at the root of all this mildewed computer music..??? > >Why does everyone always blame crappy music, "bad" sounds, non-original >ideas, etc, on a simple switching/info carrying protocol. with all this >worrying, I'm continually amazed we even have time to.......PLAY ! > >When i use MIDI to simply switch my gear from a clean reverby patch to a >chorusy distorto patch, or a synth from bells to organ..... how is the >mechanism doing that a curse ?? > >I just get antsy with such generalizations, i guess. Who exactly anointed >MIDI as the catch all that would do everything including read our minds at >500 GHz ??? It seems any performance short of that deems it worthy of the >trash heap. I think you expressed this point before, Andre. Then, as now, I think you are on a tangent to the actual discussion. You are looking at this entirely as a user of tools, rather than a creator of tools. And you are a pragamatic user of tools, saying "this is what I have, what can I do with it?" and that's fine, but that's not what David is getting at or what we were dealing with last time this discussion came up. Creators of tools are people who tend to take a very different perspective on their environment. They say, "this is what I want to do. Is there a tool that will let me do that?" If there is one, they are happy and they go on. Oftentimes, though, the correct tool does not exist and they are not happy and they can't do what they want. So they set about adapting existing tools to their new purpose or inventing entirely new tools to meet their needs. These are the restless sorts of people who are never satisfied with the way things are and constantly seek to improve upon it. The goal is more absolute, altering it to fit the available tools is not an option. If you look around you now, most of the human-developed devices you see were created by people like that. Midi is a sort of language. (and language is a sort of tool.) It has words and definitions and grammer. Language tends to be closely tied to culture and thought processes. In a given language there will be some ideas which are very easy to express, some which are difficult, and some which are completely unexpressable. Different languages tend excel in different areas, with different degrees of success. (English is great for business, but French is better for romance, say. And the language of the Aborigines in Australia is supposedly great for theoretical physics, as well as discussion of abstracted dream states, but you wouldn't want to write a contract with it.) In a very real way, the language defines the boundaries of ideas you can express. And sometimes, it defines the boundaries of ideas you can even think, and defines the people and culture who use it. This is why languages are constantly evolving. We have new ideas to express, so we invent new words for them, or make stylistic evolutions to accomodate. But you can only go so far that way. This is why programmers keep inventing new programming languages. The existing languages sometimes can't accomodate new ideas, and a new language is created that suits the ideas better. As a language, Midi has a very limited vocabulary and a restrictive grammatical structure. It defines a very limited boundary of what can be expressed with it. this is not to say you can't express anything with it, or find it extremely useful. Within its boundaries you are fine. Indeed, you can use it to achieve brilliance in musical expression. But if you wish to express ideas outside the boundaries, midi might not work for you. If you are the sort that seeks to create tools, you might first seek to adapt midi to your needs, adding new words to it. But at some point the boundary is limited by the fundamental grammatical structure of the language, and you just can't go beyond that. Some of us reach that point and conclude, aha! time for a new language. We need a new tool to achieve our goals, because the existing tools don't get us there. The restless tool creators in some of us are always at work.... That's why there is so much interest in a new protocol for communicating musical ideas electronically, and why some people devote a lot of effort to that, and why some people merely proclaim "MIDI sucks!" Much discussion of this goes on in academic circles. Check out CNMAT (http://www.cnmat.berkeley.edu), Computer Music Journal, IRCAM, prodeedings from the ICMC, etc. A huge amount of work on new musical languages has been done already and continues vigorously. By all means, join the process. kim _________________________________________________________ Kim Flint, MTS kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research 408-752-9284 http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Sun Aug 16 02:11:54 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id AAA27913; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 00:27:16 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 00:27:16 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: "MARK FRANO" To: Subject: Vortex for Sale Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 00:06:49 -0400 Message-ID: <01bdc8cb$4b192fa0$6e7df2d0@chester> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BDC8A9.C4078FA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"Kk6c_3.0.Oa6.Glbrr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1109 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com
I am selling my Lexicon Vortex. Excellent condition with manual but no footswitch [easily replacable]. Best offer over $200.00. Mark
From ???@??? Sun Aug 16 02:12:25 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id DAA05363; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 03:05:24 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 03:05:24 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35D68F1A.CED4DAEF@magelang.com> Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 00:49:46 -0700 From: Jim Coker Reply-To: jcoker@magelang.com Organization: Magelang Institute X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: FireWire References: <3.0.1.16.19980815140524.1a77874e@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"NKg5p2.0.t_.R2err"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1110 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com There was a buzz around ZIPI a while back, but it may have fizzled out too much for resurrection using 1394. I hear Apple will be adding firewire to its machines starting early next year. Yamaha has a page for mLan: http://www.yamaha.co.jp/tech/1394mLAN/ but it hasn't been updated for a while. You can also look at www.pavo.com. Both Yamaha and Pavo are giving firewire talks at AES in Sept. I think they're still trying to iron out the details of the mLan spec. Also, the MOTU 2408 uses 1394 for connecting their audio interface box to the mac (through a custom card). It uses 1394 components and transmission technology, but a custom protocol for communication, reportedly to "handle the extremely low latencies" required by the 2408. Michael Pycraft Hughes wrote: > > Thanks to everyone for sending suggestions! > > Out of interest, has anyone started working on a MIDI replacement based > around FireWire? > > Michael > > Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes, University of Glasgow, Glasgow UK G12 8QQ > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > "What can be done with fewer assumptions is done in vain > with more" - William of Occam (1285-1347) (now called Occam's Razor) > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > www.elec.gla.ac.uk/~pycraft pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk From ???@??? Sun Aug 23 03:07:11 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA26880; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 16:01:55 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 16:01:55 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199808161940.PAA17551@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: Re: Black boxes,, The Curse Called MIDI... Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 15:36:19 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vgeAK2.0.Eq4.hNprr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1111 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > >I just get antsy with such generalizations, i guess. Who exactly anointed > >MIDI as the catch all that would do everything including read our minds at > >500 GHz ??? It seems any performance short of that deems it worthy of the > >trash heap. > > I think you expressed this point before, Andre. Then, as now, I think you > are on a tangent to the actual discussion. so.... am i to not re-establish a point?? I trust that's not what you meant. You are looking at this entirely > as a user of tools, rather than a creator of tools. and i'd hazard a guess that most musicians are users rather than creators of, tools. So they set about adapting existing tools to their new purpose or inventing entirely new tools to meet their needs. These are the restless sorts of people who are never satisfied with the way > things are and constantly seek to improve upon it. right. well put. seems to me the question still hangs out there as - maybe you and others' expectations of the "language d'MIDI" were too high, no?? Different languages tend excel in different areas, > with different degrees of success. (English is great for business, but > French is better for romance, say. And the language of the Aborigines in > Australia is supposedly great for theoretical physics, as well as discussion > of abstracted dream states, but you wouldn't want to write a contract with > it.) all great point again. but no one thrashes one language over the other - they just use what's appropo or create pig latin or esperanto. It's just a puzzling thing to me, how many legions of midi-haters there are - when it's all just an intellectual construct!! perhaps bad experiences as kids, i dunno. (not referring to anyone here, but the big hair guitar types who sneer at anything rack shaped..with any jacks not 1/4") ...ahh what am i doing! i guess i'm missing yr point in general - so i'm gonna bail, and go play some analog, non midi guitar see ya From ???@??? Sun Aug 16 15:34:42 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA17527; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 17:14:21 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 17:14:21 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: mhamburg@elroy Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 13:41:04 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: mhamburg@Adobe.COM (Mark Hamburg) Subject: Features for the ultimate looping device Resent-Message-ID: <"aAh9k.0.sH1.EJqrr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1112 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Long ago, Kim asked for suggestions for the ultimate looping device... One thing that would be really nice would be a way to apply effects to the loop with the knowledge that it is in fact a loop. This is like sticking an effects device into the feedback portion of the loop but instead of trying to carefully run the loop through once and dealing with the fact that the ends of the loop probably wouldn't come out quite right, it would process the audio content as if it were part of a continuous stream and essentially apply the effect all at once. I'm thinking, for example, of being able to hit a button and add 2 seconds of reverb to the loop or add an 1/8th note echo on the whole loop. Or if you really want to get aggressive with the UI and the processing power required, imagine that instead of doing one-shot processing, you would hit a button and start processing the loop with continuous controllers altering the effect applied to the original loop data. When happy, you'd hit another button and replace the loop with that content. And, of course, it would be undoable. If you're a Photoshop user, its like applying a filter to the image with the added element that when looking for neighboring values, the image data is just assumed to repeat like a tiled texture. Speaking of Photoshop like things, I haven't gotten myself an EDP yet, so I don't know whether it does something like this, but Photoshop 5's snapshot feature suggests that it would be really nice to be able to take the current loop and save it off as a snapshot that you can come back to. Thus, you could do something like the following: 1. Record your initial loop. 2. Save that off as snapshot 1. 3. Further modify, augment, mutilate the loop. 4. Save that off as snapshot 2. 5. Switch back to snapshot 1. 6. Mess around some more. 7. Save that as snapshot 3. 8. Switch back to snapshot 2. etc. I think the EDP may sort of allow this by copying from one loop to another, but that takes a certain amount of advance planning. It's proven to be really cool in Photoshop to wander down a path and then be able to decide "oh, this is interesting" let me save this as a useful point from which to work and have it become inviolate unless you specifically decide to update it. (Actually, Photoshop makes it too hard to update snapshots.) One interface for this might be to organize the unit as a work loop and a bunch of buffers with a button per buffer. Press the button quickly and the buffer gets loaded into the work buffer. Press and hold and the work buffer overwrites the other buffer. (Include undo support if you're really aggressive.) For audio cleanliness, it would probably be nice to be able to fade between loops. Of course, that fast takes us into the multiple loops at once issue. And then you start wanting to save off midpoints in the fade as loops in their own right and... (Hmmm. If I were better at hardware, I think I've just hit on an interesting home project from the software side. Unfortunately, hardware is not my forte.) Mark From ???@??? Sun Aug 23 03:07:12 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA08479; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 17:04:02 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 17:04:02 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: mhamburg@elroy Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 13:41:05 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: mhamburg@Adobe.COM (Mark Hamburg) Subject: MIDI continuous controller ideas Resent-Message-ID: <"S5iEF1.0.5I1.IJqrr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1113 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com MIDI controllers aren't looping devices, but they certainly are useful when manipulating loops, so this is at least marginally on topic. If someone knows of a device like this, please let me know. If not, I'll add the following to the pool of ideas for future hardware development. I want one continuous pedal and a set of footswitches that change what controller it represents. Additionally, I'd like something that allowed me when switching to a different controller to specify that I'm endeavoring to raise or lower the value as an initial operation. That way, the foot controller would only "sieze" the value when it passed through the threshold of where the value was currently. The alpha wheel approach works great for hand control, but seems like it would be awkward for foot control even as a roller. The simplest interface I can think of to make this work would be for the device to watch which way you first moved the pedal after switching to the controller and use that as the goal direction. Mark From ???@??? Mon Aug 17 10:15:09 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id WAA27291; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 22:15:32 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 22:15:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199808170159.UAA08676@supermail.globaldialog.com> Subject: test (ignore) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 98 20:57:56 -0000 x-sender: camuscar@pop.globaldialog.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"yn5DT3.0.GP6.6xurr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1115 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com z From ???@??? Sun Aug 16 17:27:51 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA14976; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 19:14:18 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 19:14:18 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 16:02:17 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: MIDI continuous controller ideas Resent-Message-ID: <"AY_rL1.0.1O3.OGsrr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1114 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >MIDI controllers aren't looping devices, but they certainly are useful when >manipulating loops, so this is at least marginally on topic. > Speaking of MIDI CC's, I've been envisioning a device based on the Boomerang volume controller that transmits CC's. For those of you who don't know the Boomerang, the output volume is controlled by a rubber-coated roller about the diameter of a toilet paper tube, about 2 inches long, that sticks a little above the surface of the pedal. You change the volume by rolling your foot across it. There's a row of dots that corkscrew around the roller that tells you the value. This is one of the hippest controls I've ever seen! It's way intuitive and it occupies a lot less space than a foot pedal. I'm thinking that a box about the size of the EDP foot controller or 'rang with 4 or 6 of these rollers, assignable to MIDI CC's would be a way cool piece of gear. Of course, with my pathetic soldering skills, I couldn't build it... ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ "...there will come a day when you won't have to use gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." -Sun Ra ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Mon Aug 17 10:15:32 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id CAA12612; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 02:31:30 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 02:31:30 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <000a01bdc9a4$e8afd960$db094382@hovard> From: "Thomas Whni" To: Subject: MP3 files into Cubase?? Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 08:04:33 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"oahWW2.0.el2.TZyrr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1117 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hi all , I recently downloaded a bunch of drumloops from the net. They were all in MP3 format and this came to be a problem since Cubase doesn`t recognize the format. To my knowledge my Cubase 3.04 only reads 16 bit wavs. I explained this to a friend and he told me to get an MP3 decoder. This , he said , was the exact opposite of an MP3 encoder. But when I searched the web for it I couldn`t find it ANYWHERE............ Any of you know where to find one or if they even exist? Or perhaps another way to convert MP3 files into .wav-files? YOurs , Thomas BTW what do you think if the format? Does it degrade the sound once converted back? I read somewhere that MP3 was beeing given some of the blame for lesser record sales , what gives? From ???@??? Mon Aug 17 10:15:31 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id CAA11478; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 02:12:15 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 02:12:15 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35D7D3E5.F5C68321@magelang.com> Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 23:55:33 -0700 From: Jim Coker Reply-To: jcoker@magelang.com Organization: Magelang Institute X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: MIDI continuous controller ideas References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8emdO.0.sT2.XLyrr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1116 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Mark Hamburg wrote: > I want one continuous pedal and a set of footswitches that change what > controller it represents. The Peavey PC1600 can probably do this. It has a footpedal input, as well as switches, and the user can program different mappings for the footpedal (as well as the 16 sliders). Then the only task is to see if the program number can be set using a footswitch. > Additionally, I'd like something that allowed me when switching to a > different controller to specify that I'm endeavoring to raise or lower the > value as an initial operation. That way, the foot controller would only > "sieze" the value when it passed through the threshold of where the value > was currently. The PC1600 definitely can't do this, I'm not sure of the latest model, the PC1600X, so something like that. The Deopfer Regelwerk does have a fader mode to match this. It is pretty expensive (I'm guessing 600-800, but has 24 sliders, and an analog-style sequencer. Jim From ???@??? Mon Aug 17 10:15:49 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id GAA27011 for kflint@annihilist.com; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 06:21:30 -0400 Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 06:21:30 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-From_: ukh@tcelectronic.com Mon Aug 17 06:21:26 1998 Received: from mail.canvas.dk (mail.canvas.dk [194.192.221.66]) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) with ESMTP id GAA26981 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 06:21:26 -0400 Received: from fw.tcelectronic.dk ([194.192.251.129]) by mail.canvas.dk (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with SMTP id 232 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 12:21:04 +0200 Received: from [192.168.1.120] by fw.tcelectronic.dk via smtpd (for mail.canvas.dk [194.192.221.66]) with SMTP; 17 Aug 1998 10:20:05 UT From: "Uffe Hansen" To: Subject: i'd like to be added to the mailing list Old-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 12:20:05 +0200 Message-ID: <000e01bdc9c8$9a32bae0$7801a8c0@ukhpc.private.tcelectronic.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal X-Diagnostic: undecipherable, help sent X-Envelope-To: Loopers-Delight From ???@??? Mon Aug 17 10:16:00 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id HAA02345; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 07:48:50 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 07:48:50 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35D81139.D7798866@vtx.ch> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:17:13 +0200 From: Claude Voit Reply-To: c.voit@vtx.ch X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: MIDI continuous controller ideas References: Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"desS43.0.F8.jF1sr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1119 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Dave Trenkel wrote: SNIP . For those of you who don't > know the Boomerang, the output volume is controlled by a rubber-coated > roller about the diameter of a toilet paper tube, about 2 inches long, that > sticks a little above the surface of the pedal. You change the volume by > rolling your foot across it. There's a row of dots that corkscrew around > the roller that tells you the value. This is one of the hippest controls > I've ever seen! It's way intuitive and it occupies a lot less space than a ? on the same subject Scott Henderson uses some sort of home made ccont pedal board ( probably just simple pots that are tied to a box that does the CV - Midi translation the interesting thing is that he uses normal rotary pots whith a big rubber button (I remenber that on some boss pedals ??) there is an arrow on the top for visual info where he's at he was manipulating the pots by turning them with his foot. The external pots can even be turned in one shot with the side of the shoe *zzzap* never tried it but for minor or smooth adjustments this seems to be a less hazardous than the traditionnal vol ped I'm too exited on stage to suddenly be very calm and smooth to put my feet on the pedal without moving it a litle or a lot either way (BTW they could create also hard action vol pedals; some times they are simply too smooth) I would also like pedals that could use you whole body weight as range for control when you are off the pedal the value is 0 when you are full on it on one leg this the max. This type of controler could be used very smoothly by just tranfering your weight from one feet to the other and very hard by stomping and jumping on it any designer around? call private for lot more on this ?=) back from hollydays in IBIZA great relaxed looping Eat-beach-siesta-beach-BRBQ-party-sleep-Eat-beach-siesta- - - - - - Claude -- Please correct the reply address by deleting this "----" Veuillez corriger mon adresse pour me rpondre en effaant a "----" From ???@??? Mon Aug 17 10:15:55 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id HAA01056; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 07:35:07 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 07:35:07 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980817111907.006a2274@mail.dada.it> X-Sender: cavallo@mail.dada.it X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:19:07 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Leonardo Cavallo Subject: Re: MP3 files into Cubase?? Resent-Message-ID: <"bvpH7.0.H-7.Q81sr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1118 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 08.04 17/08/98 +0200, you wrote: >Hi all , I recently downloaded a bunch of drumloops from the net. They were all in >MP3 format and this came to be a problem since Cubase doesn`t recognize the format. >To my knowledge my Cubase 3.04 only reads 16 bit wavs. > >I explained this to a friend and he told me to get an MP3 decoder. This , he said , was the exact opposite of an MP3 encoder. But when I searched the web for it I couldn`t find it ANYWHERE............ > >Any of you know where to find one or if they even exist? Or perhaps another way to convert MP3 files into .wav-files? > >YOurs , Thomas > >BTW what do you think if the format? Does it degrade the sound once converted back? >I read somewhere that MP3 was beeing given some of the blame for lesser record sales , >what gives? > > Hi Thomas you simply need Winamp to convert your mp3s to wavs. You have only to change the output of the mp3 loaded: from your soundcard to wave file. ciao leo PS Mp3 is quite useful for the Net. I'm submitting my work via e-mail sending to various companies my compressed files to give them an idea of my music and grooves. Then, if the material is accepted, I send a .wav CD. From ???@??? Mon Aug 17 10:16:02 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id IAA04167; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 08:07:21 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 08:07:21 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <002801bdc9d6$2941bbc0$03459ad1@default> From: "Bill Cummings" To: Subject: Re: MP3 files into Cubase?? + my Cubase question for today Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 07:56:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2110.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"ptOSb3.0.Rn.Wg1sr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1120 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Thomas, Once you get Winamp, Here's how to convert MP3 files to WAV : 1. Load up the mp3 file by clicking the little sine wave thing in the upper left hand corner and choosing "Play File..." 2. Click the little sine wave again and choose "Options->Preferences". 3. Make sure the "Input" tab is selected and click on "Nullsoft MP2/MP3 Decoder..." in the "Input Plug-Ins" section and then click "Configure". 4. Click on the "Output" tab and then where it says "Output Device:" use the drop-down menu to choose ".WAV file output (Silent)". 5. It should bring up a little "Browse for Folder" window. Tell WinAmp where to put the output .WAV files. Once you found the folder you want, click on OK. 6. Click on OK to save the changes, then click on OK again to close the "Preferences" window. 7. Now when you click "Play" you won't hear anything come out, but it will have created a WAV file for you in the directory you specified in step 5. I have a Cubase question today too.... Here's my problem. I have my Roland A-33 midi keyboard controller and my ASRX samper hooked up to my PC midi flyer and I'm using Cubase. Everything is hooked up properly and was working fine (before I disconnected the rig and installed the new 2.62 chips). For some reason, now I'm not getting any sound (or midi data) to the sampler when I run it thru Cubase....i.e., it works fine when I depress the computer-bypass switch on the PC midi flyer, but when it's running thru the cubase, there's no sound or midi activity at the X. It's being transmitted though, as the lights indicate receiving (from the A-33) and sending (to the X) on the midi-flyer, and so do the lights on the Cubase transport bar, but the X midi light indicater does not indicate it's receiving. The X does receive perfectly though when I depress the bypass switch on the PC midi flyer. I've reset the devices in cubase (about 10 times), but that did nothing. Everything was working fine, until I had only briefly disconnected the rig to install the new 2.62 chips in the X. When I hooked it all back up, it's not receiveing data from Cubase, but then again, it does receive when I bypass the computer, which makes me totally confused. Can anyone help? Bill Cummings drums@myself.com -----Original Message----- From: Leonardo Cavallo To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Monday, August 17, 1998 7:38 AM Subject: Re: MP3 files into Cubase?? >Hi Thomas > >you simply need Winamp to convert your mp3s to wavs. You have only to change >the output of the mp3 loaded: from your soundcard to wave file. > >ciao >leo From ???@??? Mon Aug 17 11:20:00 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA22547; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 14:11:09 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 14:11:09 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35D82993.1693D31D@nyfac.com> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 14:01:07 +0100 From: nyfac Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com Organization: New York Film and Animation Inc / 3DV X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Strange gee-tar noises References: <51f85dd7.35d860ff@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lcIuN1.0.zx4.zx6sr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1134 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com the original QuadraVerb kicks for these things- try the ring modulator and the resonator patches. Also- Run yr gtr thru a pitch shifter (ie Boss PS?) and set one shift up a half step, the other down a half step. Boss Bass Syntesizer pedal. I don't own one, but these badboys are demented. Pitch shift your signal down with one pedal, back up with another, and distort the hell out of it. Do any of the above, flip the tape/reverse the sample, run back thru the same effects. Power drills, computer printers, vibrators, windup toys, soldering irons all put out lots of strange noises your pickups will, uh, pick up. Run some of that stuff through the above effects- but beware; I'm not sure that's legal in some counties. tdb From ???@??? Mon Aug 17 10:16:41 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA24032; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 11:00:37 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 11:00:37 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <000301bdc9ed$65b90ba0$0d01a8c0@Remote> From: "Steve Lauder" To: Subject: Guitar Effects (non-looping content) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 15:42:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"_ZA0v3.0.Tc5.BF4sr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1121 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I've been experimenting with some electric guitar riffs in ambient music, as well as, er, I suppose you'd call some of my stuff a Nine Inch Nails rip-off. I was wondering whether anyone had played round with effects to get any real weird sounds out of a guitar? I've used delays, distortions, compressors, vocoders etc, but at the end of the day you can still recognise the sound as that of a guitar. I'm after something really whacky, and I was after some hints. Can anyone offer suggestions? Cheers From ???@??? Mon Aug 17 10:16:42 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA26263; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 11:15:02 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 11:15:02 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: From: David Kirkdorffer To: David Myers , Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Black boxes & KOAN Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 10:59:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"RCIF02.0.0w5.7N4sr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1122 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com ENO is an avid KOAN user. He has released music that is from his KOAN work. David K UNDO From ???@??? Mon Aug 17 10:16:51 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA28785; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 11:32:47 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 11:32:47 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <19980817151912.7825.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [207.94.66.242] From: "Matt Rowe" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Guitar Effects (non-looping content) Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 08:19:12 PDT Resent-Message-ID: <"1SQmz2.0.Gb6.xe4sr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1123 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >I'm after >something really whacky, and I was after some hints. > >Can anyone offer suggestions? two words: vor-tex another two words: e-bow make sure to get an expression pedal for that vortex, and let the wackiness begin! matt The price I pay for free, private email is the following commercial message... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Mon Aug 17 10:17:01 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA01901; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 12:08:50 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 12:08:50 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: TritoneDW@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 11:47:09 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Guitar Effects (non-looping content) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 56 Resent-Message-ID: <"LGlt13.0.Gg7.435sr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1124 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Steve writes: << I've used delays, distortions, compressors, vocoders etc, but at the end of the day you can still recognise the sound as that of a guitar. I'm after something really whacky, and I was after some hints. >> I'm sure lots of people will have ideas about this, but here are some of my ideas for guitar wierdness: 1: Get an EBow, and a slide. 2: Turn the mix on your effects all the way to wet--no direct guitar signal. 3: Consider running your rig through a mixer, so you can feed effects back into themselves (especially useful for mod effects). 4: Chain effects--several distortions in a row will give you certain "results". 5: Wah pedals are good for bringing out certain freq. ranges. Put distortion pre-wah and see what happens. 6: Never underestimate the power of feedback. 7: If you don't want it to sound like a guitar, don't play it like a guitar. (huh?) 8: Consider preparing the guitar in various ways--alligator clips on strings, objects inserted at harmonic nodes, etc. Hope this gives you some ideas. My main suggestion is just to spend some time experimenting (that is, if you aren't trying to get something specific). Happy tweaking, Drew From ???@??? Mon Aug 17 10:17:10 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA05423; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 12:27:57 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 12:27:57 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 12:14:30 -0400 (EDT) From: David Talento X-Sender: legion@unix01 To: Steve Lauder cc: "Looper's Delight" Subject: Re: Guitar Effects (non-looping content) Loooong In-Reply-To: <000301bdc9ed$65b90ba0$0d01a8c0@Remote> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"dta6i.0.Aj.NS5sr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1125 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com On Mon, 17 Aug 1998, Steve Lauder wrote: > I was wondering whether anyone had played round with effects to get any real > weird sounds out of a guitar? > I've used delays, distortions, compressors, vocoders etc, but at the end of > the day you can still recognise the sound as that of a guitar. I'm after > something really whacky, and I was after some hints. I assume you've already tried how all these monsters interact with each other in different settings. If not try a chain with something like: Delay-> Distortion -> Chorus or flanger -> compressor -> EQ and mess with the knobs throughout the chain. I think flangers in general are awesome warpers of sound as are cheapass EQs or Phasers. Put them where they're not supposed to be and see what happens. The most effective warper I've used is weirdass guitar synths. Unfortunately these are pretty expensive in the Vintage market but they give you a sound unlike any stompbox. basically if you churned the sound through a resonant filter and some form of envelope you might start coming close. Then Korg X119 is a great little unit and shows up for arodun $250 or so on the 'net occasionally. It tracks horribly but as a processor it's fantastic. The Korg MS20 synthesizer has an onbaor pitch to Voltage converter and two resonant bands on it's fliter which makes this the ultimate processor (unless you're going to go fully modular like eno did with a SynthiAKS or something). Alsa again these things are $$$. You mentioned Nine inch nails and trent often would run his sounds into an Arp 2600 modular synth to get something no one else (including himself) could duplicate). The Nord Virtual modular would laos fit this bill if you've got $2k sitting around. on the more realistic price front the Boss SYB3 bass synthesizer is a new pedal out that has a setting that warps the sound quite well plus two autowah settings that are a good start when you start to mess with the cutoff and Resonance knobs. I did a review of it here: http://www.voicenet.com/~legion/syb3.htm Also the New sensor/EH QTron has a fantastic multimode filter it uses for it's autowah setting. it claims to do everything the mutron III envelope follower does and then some. get some patterns runnning with that and throw them into a digital Echoplex and you'll have juicy drum beats coming from your guitar. A company Called Zvex makes one of a kind pedals such as an 8 step phaser called the Seekwah and the "Machine" which is a combination of ringmodulator and compressor plus some other magic. These are basically indescribable. they do things nothing else can and do so even more when combined with other pedals. They run around $250 or so each and are tough to find though so are not to be taken lightly The ultimate warper IMO is the electro harmonix Guitar synth pedal with three ocatave sliders, an attack/envelop, Square wave fuzz, and harsh raspy filter with attack/decay sweep setting all in one. I'm told these will be reissued shortly but I've head that "any day now" for two years. Used these go for $350-450+ (some dealers ask $700-800). This is the most unique stompbox I've ever played. I love it. You can make your own version mini using an octave pedal, autowah or filter pedal, and fuzz in a chain. Not the same but it you already have some of these sitting around you'll find some pretty cool combinations. Again I love the boss stuff but really anything will do. The Boss Dynamic Filter pedal can do nice things and has an input to sweep the filter with an external cv pedal (the DOD FX17 is a nice cheap one used).Hell just "cheat" and use a wah wah pedal in there somewhere anyway. It's basically a lowpass filter circuit. One of the easiest techniques I've found to getting a "non guitar" sound is to remove the attack from the note and run it into a delay. This is what everyone from Belew to SRV has done by literally putting your pinky on the volume and picking a string and then sweeping the volume up slowly. In effect this is a form of envelope shaping and when you run it through a delay you get an extended note. Now if you run the guitar into a filter, fuzz, and flanger and then use this techique you'll get a *very* unguitar-like sound. Also I've has good results playing what I call "metal drops" using an old metal case Ibanez flanger with everything set on the highest speed. It sweeps the delay range so fast it warbles but still retains a pitch of the note. I run this "plunk" into a delay and/or play harmonics on it and it sounds kind of like a mix of striking a metal tube and running a blender depending on the attack. Whew! that's quite a few ideas. Basically remember the main rule: There are no rules. Run three delays into a vibrochamp amp and add some fuzz from there. Play chords through mono pitchshifters. use the "volume Attack" technique while playing through a ring modulator. Have fun! Last but not least try to rent or buy a copy of Adrian Belew's instructional Video "How to Play Electronic Guitar". It's really very entertaining in additon to informative on some techiques as well as fresh ideas. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- HELP WANTED PRODUCTIONS - Http://www.voicenet.com/~legion "Bringing you the best in Organic Electronic music since we started..." Home of the Unusual Instrument and Recording Gallery with pictures and info of Tube recorders, Omnichords, weird guitars, Casios, and more. From ???@??? Mon Aug 17 10:17:14 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA08349; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 12:45:23 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 12:45:23 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <001001bdc9fa$b6ac6400$1a094382@hovard> From: "Thomas Whni" To: Subject: Re: Guitar Effects (non-looping content) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 18:18:46 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"LAQY8.0.321.zY5sr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1126 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Matt replied: >two words: vor-tex >another two words: e-bow > >make sure to get an expression pedal for that vortex, and let the >wackiness begin! > >matt --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- One great thing about the E-bow is that is makes the string vibrate very hard thus sending out a STRONGER signal. This gives us the options to get very wacky with our effects settings: A "patch" of effects , say some pedals , some rackmounts and a wah , that might sound weak and muffled when played with a pick , could sound awesome when played with the E-bow. You know that type of sound we all get when we been turning the knobs a lil`bit too far?? When you can barely hear the pitch of what`s beeing played?? That`s the time to whip out your E-bow and go "ooooooooooo!"........... My advice: try working through your rig`s effect possibillities while playing the E-bow and NOT trying put the sounds with a pick first. The two has to be tweaked in a very different way. Hope this helps , Thomas From ???@??? Mon Aug 17 10:17:07 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA06349; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 12:33:27 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 12:33:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <001701bdc9fa$daa69880$1a094382@hovard> From: "Thomas Whni" To: Subject: Re: MP3 files into Cubase?? + my Cubase question for today Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 18:19:47 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"v23Qd3.0.l31.iZ5sr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1127 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Thanks a bunch , Bill and Leo , you are stars in my book!!! Yours , Thomas W From ???@??? Mon Aug 17 10:17:13 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA07595; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 12:40:43 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 12:40:43 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: "Collins" To: Subject: Re: Guitar Effects and a little happiness! Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 12:26:26 -0400 Message-ID: <01bdc9fb$c81a8f40$af1bbfa8@0QHC6SIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"XxMrJ3.0._O1.uf5sr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1128 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hey Drew, Don't give away everything. He needs to use his imagination to truly get where he is going. To Steve; Stop playing your guitar for about a week and don't think about the guitar...think about the ways you can get the guitar to sound differently. If that doesn't work, go check out Henry Kaiser's "Ecletic Electric" video and/or Adrian Belew's "Electronic Guitar". Those two videos will give you plenty of ideas. And to all who think I'm not using my imagination now...I've never tried to do the sounds they use...mainly because i can't afford to get a $10000 rack of effects. Good day, and a better one tomorrow. Jeff Collins >Steve writes: > ><< I've used delays, distortions, compressors, vocoders etc, but at the end of > the day you can still recognise the sound as that of a guitar. I'm after > something really whacky, and I was after some hints. >> > >I'm sure lots of people will have ideas about this, but here are some of my >ideas for guitar wierdness: > >1: Get an EBow, and a slide. > >2: Turn the mix on your effects all the way to wet--no direct guitar signal. > >3: Consider running your rig through a mixer, so you can feed effects back >into themselves (especially useful for mod effects). > >4: Chain effects--several distortions in a row will give you certain >"results". > >5: Wah pedals are good for bringing out certain freq. ranges. Put distortion >pre-wah and see what happens. > >6: Never underestimate the power of feedback. > >7: If you don't want it to sound like a guitar, don't play it like a guitar. >(huh?) > >8: Consider preparing the guitar in various ways--alligator clips on strings, >objects inserted at harmonic nodes, etc. > >Hope this gives you some ideas. My main suggestion is just to spend some time >experimenting (that is, if you aren't trying to get something specific). > >Happy tweaking, > >Drew > > From ???@??? Mon Aug 17 10:17:17 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA08351; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 12:45:23 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 12:45:23 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 12:30:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199808171630.MAA05070@shell.monmouth.com> X-Sender: andre@mail.monmouth.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: andre Subject: Re: Guitar Effects (non-looping content) Resent-Message-ID: <"3aDfS1.0.US1.0h5sr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1129 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > >I was wondering whether anyone had played round with effects to get any real >weird sounds out of a guitar? >Can anyone offer suggestions? whew..check out what jeff collins does.... he's here on this list and he is clinically insane - what he's been doing on the guitar, through var. treatments and effects - is beyond what i've ever heard... he renders the instrument COMPLETELY unrecognizable...crazy shit - get one of his tapes or pick his brain for FX ideas andre' From ???@??? Mon Aug 17 10:17:26 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA11287; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:02:27 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:02:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 12:42:53 -0400 X-Sender: robm@mailgate.nytimes.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <000301bdc9ed$65b90ba0$0d01a8c0@Remote> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Robert Monn Subject: Re: Guitar Effects (non-looping content) Loooong Resent-Message-ID: <"c1mlq2.0.3w1.Vr5sr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1130 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com don't forget the lovetone Meatball -- the best envelope follower i've ever used. with an ebow this thing makes a better synth lead than any synth i've used... very expressive. _________________________________ /robb monn -- robm@nytimes.com | From ???@??? Mon Aug 17 11:19:32 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA12982; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:13:58 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:13:58 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Nemoguitt@aol.com Message-ID: <51f85dd7.35d860ff@aol.com> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 12:57:34 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: pre-looping content Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"Sexgx2.0.Va2.A56sr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1131 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com ola one and all- here is a question i sent to the folks on the alesis qudra- verb list, a sporatic group, sometimes helpful sometimes not. ive noticed that many LD folks use qudra-verbs in their setups and perhaps i can get an assist from some of you. i have at present abandoned my ongoing quest to use my puter for music, i must get all my hardware ducks in a row before i re-embark on that madcap path. i have this sinking feeling that i do not have the right mindset for all of this technical stuff. i spend 80% of my time tweaking knobs and buttons and 20% trying to make music. im ready to pull out my acoustic and a Peter-Paul-and Mary songbook and really learn how to play Puff the Magic Peeper :)......thanks ............michael hello- i have just bought a carvin ae-185, this is a guitar with 2 lines out, one is electric and the second is for acoustic. here is how i route the beastie- electric line out-sans amp-right input Q2- acoustic line out-left input Q2- now coming from the Q2 right line out Q2-merantz 4 trac (mixer) left line out Q2-boss delay (DM3)-boomerang phrase sampler-merantz 4 trac then we come out of the merantz into my stereo rig. here are my problems: 1) i do not get a signal from the Q2 right line out going to the merantz 2)i must make the signal from the sans amp really hot to get it to blend well with the acoustic signal 3) both signals come out of the Q2 (elec and acoustic) from Q2 left line out. two things seem to happen: a) the acoustic sound seems very uneffected by the Q2, there is some change but not very much and b) the electric signal sounds overly processed (very digital is the best way to describe it) the reason i got the carvin was to take advantage of the 2 lines in and out on the Q2, i was under the impression that i would have more control over the coloration of both signals seperately. this does not seem to be the case. and the fact that the right line out of the Q2 gives me no signal at all has me more than baffeled. where am i going wrong? any ideas and suggestions would be most helpful......thanks............michael From ???@??? Mon Aug 17 11:19:47 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA16016; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:31:23 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:31:23 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: "Collins" To: Subject: Re: Guitar Effects (non-looping content) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:08:56 -0400 Message-ID: <01bdca01$b83b1620$af1bbfa8@0QHC6SIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"rQyU_1.0.M73.pH6sr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1132 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Andre, Thanks for the kind words bro. I'll get the next cassette "RED" to you within a week. By the way to all. I'm only making 25 copies of this particular cassette. it's $5.00 to all interested. Jeff -----Original Message----- From: andre To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Monday, August 17, 1998 12:44 PM Subject: Re: Guitar Effects (non-looping content) >> >>I was wondering whether anyone had played round with effects to get any real >>weird sounds out of a guitar? >>Can anyone offer suggestions? > > >whew..check out what jeff collins does.... he's here on this list and he is >clinically insane - what he's been doing on the guitar, through var. >treatments and effects - is beyond what i've ever heard... he renders the >instrument COMPLETELY unrecognizable...crazy shit - get one of his tapes or >pick his brain for FX ideas > >andre' > > From ???@??? Mon Aug 17 11:19:50 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA16231; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:32:51 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:32:51 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 10:10:18 -0700 Message-ID: <0011139D.----@wj.com> From: Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle) Subject: Re[2]: Guitar Effects (non-looping content) Loooong To: Steve Lauder , David Talento Cc: "Looper's Delight" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"xy9aJ.0.uN3.yN6sr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1133 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >>On Mon, 17 Aug 1998, Steve Lauder wrote: >> I was wondering whether anyone had played round with effects to get any real >> weird sounds out of a guitar? >> I've used delays, distortions, compressors, vocoders etc, but at the end of >> the day you can still recognise the sound as that of a guitar. I'm after >> something really whacky, and I was after some hints. >...basically if you churned the sound through a resonant filter and some form >of envelope you might start coming close. (.... snip) >You mentioned Nine inch nails and trent often would run his sounds into an Arp >2600 modular synth to get something no one else (including himself) could >duplicate). The Nord Virtual modular would also fit this bill if you've >got $2k sitting around. I went through the analog filter search a while back, and sure, there are a few super cool pricey ones like the Mutronics Mutator ~1.2K and the Sherman Filterbank ~600 (used?) and the Waldorf stereo X-Pole ~800. I finally settled on the Waldorf 4-pole @ $389 from Bananas at Large, and love it. I've only scratched the surface of it's potential and already have some very twisted stuff going on. You do have to be willing to use CV control to get realtime control of it, but it's quite versatile and can be pretty invisible except when you want total warp if you're willing to get into some midi cc patching. I started out looking at more *traditional* envelope filters for guitar like the Q-Tron and Lovetone Meatball (didn't get to try that) and decided I wanted a little more tweakability. Check out the 4-pole... -miko From ???@??? Mon Aug 17 22:00:26 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA31473; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 15:12:09 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 15:12:09 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199808171837.TAA23891@mailhost.dircon.co.uk> From: "Tim Walker" To: "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 19:34:48 +0100 Reply-To: "Tim Walker" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Standard (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Loop guitar "virtual album" online now Resent-Message-ID: <"Zek-V2.0.oV6.oY7sr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1135 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hi LDers, Earlier this year I recorded a selection of pieces for guitar and my then newly-acquired Boomerang Phrase Sampler - my first steps into looping "proper". After considering producing a cassette from them, I decided instead to create a "virtual album" of them using RealAudio. The result is now online at my looping & prog rock guitar site, "The Hall Of The Endless Knot", at http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Amphitheatre/5117/ The album, "Through The Arch Window", is presented in its entirety, exactly as it would appear on cassette, should it be issued in that format. All the pieces were recorded live to tape with no overdubs and very minor editing (mainly fades), and can be played as streaming live audio as well as downloaded files. The RealAudio tracks (nearly sixty minutes in total) were encoded at 20.1Kbps, so should stream over a 28.8k modem with few problems. Please feel free to drop by and take a listen - I would particularly welcome comments and suggestions from members of this list, and even criticism (so long as it's constructive!). Please bear in mind these tracks represent my first real steps into looping, and besides, you're getting all this for free :-) Thanks for reading, and see you at the Hall... Best wishes, Tim. *******************Tim Walker - Staines, UK******************* tawalker@dircon.co.uk - www.users.dircon.co.uk/~tawalker/ The Hall of the Endless Knot - looping, prog-rock guitar, etc. ********www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Amphitheatre/5117******* From ???@??? Mon Aug 17 22:01:20 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA18822; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:43:56 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:43:56 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35D88753.9A606F5C@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 12:41:22 -0700 From: lance glover Reply-To: baumhaus@earthlink.net Organization: treehouse X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Guitar Effects (slight looping content) References: <000301bdc9ed$65b90ba0$0d01a8c0@Remote> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"XEwIj1.0.0q3.QA9sr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1142 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Steve Lauder wrote: > I've been experimenting with some electric guitar riffs in ambient music, as > well as, er, I suppose you'd call some of my stuff a Nine Inch Nails > rip-off. > > I was wondering whether anyone had played round with effects to get any real > weird sounds out of a guitar? > > I've used delays, distortions, compressors, vocoders etc, but at the end of > the day you can still recognise the sound as that of a guitar. I'm after > something really whacky, and I was after some hints. > Wacky effect du jour as follows: guitar signal into Boss DD-3 pedal, then increase the regenerations to the point of feedback (BTW, the DD-5 doesn't seem to want to do this, although I would assume most simpler delays with volume, regen. and frequency controls should work). One can then (if careful with volume and having resilient speakers) control the feedback while rolling the frequency and volume pot(s) around to produce some fairly convincing Stockhausen-esque staccato UFO warbles (think Gesang der Junglinge or Kontakt); this works especially well with a volume pedal and a modulation effect or two - with minor tweaking, it don't sound much like a geetar a'tall... Cheers, Lance G. From ???@??? Mon Aug 17 22:01:11 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA15049; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:26:02 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:26:02 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD051AD38@migarexch01.maritz.com> From: "Liebig, Steuart A." To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Guitar Effects (non-looping content) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 15:00:25 -0500 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Resent-Message-ID: <"GdzwO1.0.4W2.Gm8sr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1139 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > 1) Ring Modulation, natch. Maybe the only one produced right now is made > by Black Cat, I think something of a Maestro ring modulator emulation. > Colorsound makes one too (reissue?) > 3) Q-Tron/Meatball/Waldorf, check. Lovetone's web site evaporated, > though--never a good sign.... > I was looking at the Lovetone site on Friday last. http://www.channel.co.uk/lovetone/ > 5) I hear the Tychobrahe Octavia is supposed to be wild. Will be hard to > find, tho. > Fulltone makes a couple of octave things. There's a guy named Justin Philpot who allegedly makes a good tych octave clone for about $130 (apparently the originals go for something like $650 . . . ) > 6) "reverse" effects are available on some boxes--what was that old Boss > half-rack called? PSR-10? > Think that's the number . . . > 7) Vibrators, alligator clips, metal pieces.... > Tambourine tangs under/between the strings (sound really good on bass), chopsticks (both for striking and in between strings), mallets, test clips (smaller than alligator clips, different timbre), treated alligator clips (tape on clip halves, gives muted sound), wrong end of a slide (where your finger goes) From ???@??? Mon Aug 17 22:00:30 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA01370; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 15:24:13 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 15:24:13 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: dmgraph@mail.bway.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <9547308b.35d5d912@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 15:01:12 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: David Myers Subject: Re: Black boxes Resent-Message-ID: <"H7ltA.0.jA7.ls7sr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1136 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Appreciate all this input. Let me say a few words... >how is MIDI any more of a curse than , say, electricity - which is >truly at the root of all this mildewed computer music..??? Electricity LIVES. It does not follow any arbitrary rules set by some organization of musical instrument manufacturers. Tap into THAT, and you'll find some truly interesting avenues. To me, Nicola Tesla's life and work is a lot more interesting than, say, that of Patrick Moraz. Computers: one problem I have with the computer in music is the regimentation it presents. Gotta dangle that live wire! >Hey David, sounds like your next medium for developing instruments might be >software? In other words, defining the problem is a key first step, the next >is either solving it or complaining a lot, eh? Nah, Kim, I'm a hardware head--it's just that, with all the computer stuff going on, I'm hoping for something that I might make use of at some point. Until then, I'll be bitchin.... I've tried the demo of Metasynth, and will admit that it looks like one of the best things out there; might even spring for it. Regarding Kyma--sounds cool for sure; next time I have $5000 free, I'll think about it.... (right) About Mr. Torn: Tripping Over God and What Means Solid, Traveller? are absolute must-haves.... Later.... From ???@??? Mon Aug 17 22:01:12 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA14334; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:21:41 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:21:41 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: joseph devlin Message-Id: <199808172006.QAA09152@garden.WPI.EDU> Subject: Re: Black boxes To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:06:09 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: from "David Myers" at Aug 17, 98 03:01:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"IuFsZ1.0.Dp2.br8sr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1140 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > Computers: one problem I have with the computer in music is the > regimentation it presents. Gotta dangle that live wire! well, dont forget about mathematics, and recursion, and all the stuff you can do with a computer involving feedback and manipulation of data. sure, it gets quantized to a degree, but some of use like the sound of pixelated noise. its possible to do these things without a computer, but this raises another point, that being the only limitations that you will find, imposed over your creations, are the ones that you put there yourself. even though this lapses into something approaching cliche, its still true. dont use computers because they represent too much discipline. dont use a western music system because its hackneyed. dont complain if people adhere to methods you find distasteful; do go about your business, making "music" the way you want, and if tools dont exist, dont bitch about it, try to find a way to do what you want with what youve got. maybe you'll get pleasantly sidetracked, and you can spend some time having fun rather than bitching about all of the software thats not available. anyways, i think that if you find the use of a computer to be far too limiting and regimented, then youre doing something wrong. try using a computer in conjunction with other things. ive never considered a computer to be the end all be all. outboard gear still gives something back when you take the time to use it. > Nah, Kim, I'm a hardware head--it's just that, with all the computer stuff > going on, I'm hoping for something that I might make use of at some point. > Until then, I'll be bitchin.... this doesnt make any sense. since when does anyone here use one thing and one thing only? acoustic guitar, alone, is probably very limiting (at least for some..) but acoustic guitar with stuff is more interesting, whether that be effects boxes, tape recorders, microphones and cellophane.. your bitching serves no purpose. maybe you cant make use of _anything_ at this point because you dont have the imagination to make use of whats out there, in interesting combinations. but then, i dont know who you are, or what youre about, so whos to say? From ???@??? Mon Aug 17 22:01:22 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA19336; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:46:42 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:46:42 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:23:46 -0700 Message-ID: <00111648.----@wj.com> From: Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle) Subject: Re: Guitar FX (non-looping content) getting fuzzy!!!!! To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, David Myers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"-orF33.0.2_3.UD9sr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1144 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com David Myers wrote... >3) Q-Tron/Meatball/Waldorf, check. Lovetone's web site evaporated, >though--never a good sign.... I just checked and they're still kickin' at... http://www.channel.co.uk/lovetone/ I've got a Lovetone Big Cheese Fuzz which is finding it's way to the center of my mix more and more... Cool Curds control in mode 3 which gives great farty trumpet like performance. Mode 1 = Big bottom / scooped mids, Mode 2 = Punched up mids... (like this one a lot!) I found this fuzz on some settings pretty similar to my old Z-Vex Fuzz Factory... but it seems a lot easier to dial (has a tone control). Regarding non-guitar sounds... The Prescription Electronics Experience with *just* the octave on and some string banging creates a vicious wall of beautiful noise... Add the nifty swell effect over a bed of the last for a truly insectoid event. Also at the 3MS site, (Dann Green's pedal enterprise) there's a link to his *other* Soundshimmer page. Two units are offered there. The NoiseSwasher Fuzz and the TriPico Generator (or some such thing). The NoiseSwasher looks great and I've got a custom one on order w/a built in LFO on the HiEQ w/CV control over depth....(although now I'm considering moving that to speed). It will also have a "self-oscillate" mode. Anyway, it should be a great noisemaker as well. Check 'em out! http://members.rotfl.com/3ms/ http://members.rotfl.com/soundshimmer/ best, -miko From ???@??? Mon Aug 17 22:00:44 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA06175; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 15:39:56 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 15:39:56 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: dmgraph@mail.bway.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000301bdc9ed$65b90ba0$0d01a8c0@Remote> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 15:26:03 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: David Myers Subject: Re: Guitar Effects (non-looping content) Resent-Message-ID: <"p_0mR2.0.XO.aE8sr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1137 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com "something really whacky"... 1) Ring Modulation, natch. Maybe the only one produced right now is made by Black Cat, I think something of a Maestro ring modulator emulation. 2) E-bow, check. 3) Q-Tron/Meatball/Waldorf, check. Lovetone's web site evaporated, though--never a good sign.... 4) Boss SYB-3, pretty cool.... 5) I hear the Tychobrahe Octavia is supposed to be wild. Will be hard to find, tho. 6) "reverse" effects are available on some boxes--what was that old Boss half-rack called? PSR-10? 7) Vibrators, alligator clips, metal pieces.... 8) If you're more adventuresome, make like Glenn Branca and get some wire at the hardware store and use it intead of yer D'Addarios--or like Nic Collins, pump sound INTO the axe's jack and output the sound an AM radio, etc. makes the strings resonate with...! From ???@??? Mon Aug 17 22:01:21 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA18746; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:43:37 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:43:37 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: mhamburg@elroy Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:26:27 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: mhamburg@Adobe.COM (Mark Hamburg) Subject: Re: Guitar Effects Resent-Message-ID: <"7DsJ5.0.Sw3.7C9sr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1143 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Place one drumstick under your guitar strings and pull outward using the pick guard as a pivot point to creat tension. Use the second drum stick to hit the other drum stick, the strings, etc. Process the hell out of the results. (Warning: This will probably scar your pick guard.) Play the strings above the nut. This is a good way to get bell tones when heavily processed. I worked with a bass player who liked to hold his bass up and hit it from various points particularly the back. Mark From ???@??? Mon Aug 17 22:00:56 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA09193; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 15:57:10 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 15:57:10 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: dmgraph@mail.bway.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000301bdc9ed$65b90ba0$0d01a8c0@Remote> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 15:29:21 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: David Myers Subject: Re: Guitar Effects (non-looping content) Resent-Message-ID: <"vysKa2.0.3W.7H8sr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1138 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Oh yeah, forgot: 9) Digitech talker. Vocoding, yeah, but more. Use inputs other than voice. From ???@??? Mon Aug 17 22:01:18 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA18526; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:42:46 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:42:46 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980817162938.0073915c@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: km15@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) -- [Cornell Modified] Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:29:38 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kevin miller Subject: Re: Guitar Effects (non-looping content) In-Reply-To: References: <000301bdc9ed$65b90ba0$0d01a8c0@Remote> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"pfqeg1.0.Po3.n99sr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1141 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >7) Vibrators, alligator clips, metal pieces.... Electric shavers work pretty well- they vibrate and produce a nice nasty tone of their own. You can also take a recording walkman (the kind with a small speaker) and put it right over the pickups and amplify the whole stinking mess- "record" and "pause" produce different sets of tones- switch back and forth for squealing rhythmic mayhem. K From ???@??? Mon Aug 17 22:01:30 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA22285; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 17:01:01 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 17:01:01 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:42:29 -0400 (EDT) From: David Talento X-Sender: legion@unix01 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Guitar Effects (non-looping content) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"upMxG.0.JZ4.YN9sr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1145 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com On Mon, 17 Aug 1998, David Myers wrote: > "something really whacky"... > 1) Ring Modulation, natch. Maybe the only one produced right now is made > by Black Cat, I think something of a Maestro ring modulator emulation. the Dan Armstrong reissues by WD are still available. The "Green Ringer" was around $50 new. Also DOD made the (evidently shortlived) Gonkulator whihc was a Ring (Actually balanced) modulator mixed in with their "grunge" pedal. Noisy as all hell to be honest but a bit different... > 6) "reverse" effects are available on some boxes--what was that old Boss > half-rack called? PSR-10? RPS10 I think... it's the Pitch shifter Delay unit. Very cool for a lot of the wrong reasons :) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- HELP WANTED PRODUCTIONS - Http://www.voicenet.com/~legion "Bringing you the best in Organic Electronic music since we started..." Home of the Unusual Instrument and Recording Gallery with pictures and info of Tube recorders, Omnichords, weird guitars, Casios, and more. From ???@??? Mon Aug 17 22:01:54 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id SAA00544; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 18:02:38 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 18:02:38 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: RE: FireWire Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 14:36:20 -0700 Message-ID: <000501bdca27$82182e40$4022dacf@stepheng> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19980815224431.00712e4c@pop.chromatic.com> Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"CmjiY1.0.qF7.DDAsr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1146 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hey, I have just as much right to shoot my mouth off as anyone else. :) I apologize for my wording, in this regard. However, regarding Kim's retort to my characteristically provocative statement, I still have yet to hear about any cards beyond the few I've read about over a year ago that support or use FireWire. There's a vast distance between it being "nearly fully integrated in ICs", and those ICs being actually used on a mass-market card. And, no, I'm not asking about Macs (but then you've guessed that by now). So who actually is using it? All I've seen is mucho mentioning of seminars and talks about FW, without much information about a real-world result that regular folks can use. Examples? > The reason it's not everywhere is just simple economics, the demand > hasn't been great enough to bring prices down to where it's appropriate for > low-cost PC's and consumer devices. It's getting pretty close now though. Yes, but it's not here yet. Again, real world solutions for other than the first people to be able to afford DATs in this country would be useful. While there can certainly be optimistic feelings about this, it's not There yet, is it? Or is it? And again, I'm talking about a product anyone can buy off the shelf for less than $200 - which is far more than such an interface card would cost to make, even in the US. Any approach Yamaha makes in this regard is dubious, given their history in the PC realm, from the unfortunate Music Feature, to the equally unfortunate (and equally non-standard) XG card ("Hey folks, make your PC into a Karaoke machine!"), so I'd disregard them altogether unless they release a non-proprietary card. Additionally, I'm still curious about their not developing software for their interface-less keyboards, but hey! > The "they" in your sentence is really you....if > people aren't lining up to buy it, nobody's going to rush to make it. Bolshoi! People haven't been driving the computer market by demanding things, they've grown to expect the business to continually supply them with more innovative approaches to computing. So it's not a supply-and-demand situation until Something Actually Hits Market. This is where the PC market (including the Macs folks) has assured a continual path to growth, not by a process of meeting demand, but anticipating it. And it's one of the reasons why so many companies misapply themselves to the PC biz, believing that all they have to do is supply something people demand, in order to survive. Which always leads to closing up shop, or being bought out, unless you're just a middleman. > The trouble with Ethernet is it's a non-deterministic network > architecture, and you can't guarantee arrival times of any data sent over > it. For audio, this means dropouts, and for midi (or some similar control > protocol), it means lots of synchronization and timing problems. This is why network > architectures like ATM and 1394 are being adopted for these purposes > instead of Ethernet. To be completely clear, I was referring to Local usage, not Internet/World usage. With its variable packet size, something ATM has only recently become capable of, Ethernet (especially over FDDI) is quite capable of delivering on such a load. The only machines I've ever seen not be able to seamlessly work with Ethernet are Macs - which would certainly affect Mac users' (and ex-Mac users') attitudes about Ethernet. The only other anti-Ethernet group I've encountered is populated by people who, upon arriving into the network support business as late as they did, have perhaps only worked with ATM, which has had a heavy evangelization effort in the business network sector for several years. > anyway, speak from what you know, it's safer...:-) Having been working in the network services arena to pay rent for the past 12 years, I'd say Yes, I Am. Stephen Goodman * It's The Loop Of The Week! EarthLight Studios * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios From ???@??? Mon Aug 17 22:02:09 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA15585; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 19:59:08 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 19:59:08 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Crossedout@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 19:45:55 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Guitar Effects (non-looping content) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"KXO6o2.0.9X3.M4Csr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1147 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 8/17/98 10:00:08 AM Central Daylight Time, steve.lauder@elspa.com writes: << I've used delays, distortions, compressors, vocoders etc, but at the end of the day you can still recognise the sound as that of a guitar. I'm after something really whacky, and I was after some hints. Can anyone offer suggestions? >> Something I've found really interesting.... try running a sample of a guitar loop through a filtering system... I use CoolEdit, so I run stuff through the "ringing 'A's" filter and also through the "de-noise" filter -what comes out seldom sounds like what went in, but it can get really wack.... enjoy. - Bill Crossedout@aol.com From ???@??? Mon Aug 17 22:02:11 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id UAA16899; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 20:10:11 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 20:10:11 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: PJBMHB@aol.com Message-ID: <5075b3bf.35d8c40b@aol.com> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 20:00:10 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Guitar Effects (non-looping content) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Resent-Message-ID: <"215lc.0.Ht3.LHCsr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1148 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com the digitech space station seems to have some whacky sounds on it. =-) PJ From ???@??? Mon Aug 17 22:02:36 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id XAA03363; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 23:40:18 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 23:40:18 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Guitar Effects (non-looping content) Message-ID: <19980817.225952.2775.0.andychu@juno.com> References: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD051AD38@migarexch01.maritz.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-11,18-20 From: andychu@juno.com (Andy Y Chu) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 23:09:07 EDT Resent-Message-ID: <"BVv-43.0.9L.4CFsr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1149 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com On Mon, 17 Aug 1998 15:00:25 -0500 "Liebig, Steuart A." writes: > > >> 1) Ring Modulation, natch. Maybe the only one produced right now is >made >> by Black Cat, I think something of a Maestro ring modulator >emulation. >> > Colorsound makes one too (reissue?) The BOSS GT-5 has a ring modulator on it too, and an "intelligent mode" that shifts the final sound back to the pitch you played. It's a floor multi-effects unit if you didn't know, one of the higher-end ones. It's very very good for making weird digital noises. It has just about every effect in there, and you can put them in any order. And at the extremes of the parameter ranges, it produces some very wacky sounds. It also has a "virtual" expression pedal which is basically an LFO modulator. Andy _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From ???@??? Tue Aug 18 00:20:40 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id BAA16060; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 01:36:30 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 01:36:30 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: zoo.e-z.net: Host van-120.e-z.net [206.129.248.82] claimed to be DOUGPIER Message-ID: <35D90C76.37F0@e-z.net> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 22:09:10 -0700 From: doug pieren Reply-To: quail@e-z.net Organization: quail teeth productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: FS: References: <2.2.32.19980504185702.009a82dc@pop.chromatic.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6w-u42.0.AN3.CnGsr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1151 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I finally got my EDP a few weeks ago.Awesome! I love it! Kim and Matthias did an outstanding job. Now I'm looking to sell a couple things so maybe I can get another one: For Sale: Roland S-550 Sampler. Rack-mount sampler with SCSI upgrade, sequencing software, monochrome monitor, mouse, manuals, hundreds of sample discs. $450. OBO plus ship EMU Proteus 3 World Sound Module. 16 bit sample player with tons of ethnic and world music samples. Manual incl. $350. OBO plus shipping Send me a private e-mail if interested. Doug Pieren quail@e-z.net From ???@??? Mon Aug 17 22:02:38 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id AAA06924; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 00:07:13 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 00:07:13 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35D90C9D.8C4E591D@mailbox.syr.edu> Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 00:09:49 -0500 From: mark sottilaro Reply-To: msottila@mailbox.syr.edu Organization: metaliminal X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: FS: Yamaha MIDI guitar. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"WToq52.0.P91.LfFsr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1150 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Speaking of MIDI guitar, I'm selling a Yamaha X-ING MIDI guitar. Yamaha built the guitar and Casio (I believe) built the electronics. It's in great shape. I'd like to get $300 OBO. Mark. From ???@??? Tue Aug 18 08:41:31 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id EAA11040; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 04:43:46 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 04:43:46 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <002501bdca81$b2f16b80$0d01a8c0@Remote> From: "Steve Lauder" To: Subject: Re: Guitar Effects (non looping content) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 09:24:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"rLTu8.0.rT2.RoJsr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1152 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Just got into work, checked my e-mail, and found I was bombarded with advice about effects! Jeff, I would love to get hold of "RED", but live in the UK - is this a problem for you? (reply off-list if you like) This is probably a stupid question: Vortex, E-bow and lovetone MeatBall - are these stomp boxes, rack mounts or what? Any ideas how much they are here in the UK? Many thanks to all for your advice, I'll be giving everything a whirl as soon as a) I've got the cash to get more FX and b) I've cleared some more gear out to make room for them! Steve Lauder P.S. Has anyone come across any real-time PC FX programs that will produce any of the above mentioned FX? Might save me a bit of space. From ???@??? Tue Aug 18 08:41:51 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id HAA22585; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 07:52:35 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 07:52:35 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <01BDCAA4.10B1B190.andrew@bocs.com> From: andrew Reply-To: "andrew@bocs.com" To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Guitar Effects (non looping content) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 12:31:01 +0100 Organization: bocs X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"epO5n1.0.1G5.FPMsr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1153 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In the UK.. Lexicon Vortex - not made anymore, was available up until maybe 6 months ago for around 180-199.00UK ( Turnkey on Charing Cross Rd in London had them.) I remember hearing that DJ/Dance people were buying them, rather than Guitarists. If this is true you'll find it hard to find one, as the UK is dance/club mad, so the Vortex could go the way of the TR808 price wise. E-bow - about 79.00UK available in most guitar shops Meatball - mail order only, but it's a UK company ( see previous email with web addr. ) Was about 250.00UK last year. You can get one to try out and then send it back for a full refund if you don't want it, within a certain time of course .. All the best Andrew -----Original Message----- From: Steve Lauder [SMTP:steve.lauder@elspa.com] Sent: 18 August 1998 09:25 To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Guitar Effects (non looping content) Just got into work, checked my e-mail, and found I was bombarded with advice about effects! Jeff, I would love to get hold of "RED", but live in the UK - is this a problem for you? (reply off-list if you like) This is probably a stupid question: Vortex, E-bow and lovetone MeatBall - are these stomp boxes, rack mounts or what? Any ideas how much they are here in the UK? From ???@??? Tue Aug 18 08:41:55 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id JAA27841; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 09:02:24 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 09:02:24 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199808181246.IAA10841@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: MIDI 'n Moraz Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 08:41:39 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"EHs4p2.0.xP6.tUNsr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1154 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > From: David Myers > Electricity LIVES. It does not follow any arbitrary rules set by some > organization of musical instrument manufacturers. Tap into THAT, and > you'll find some truly interesting avenues. To me, Nicola Tesla's life and > work is a lot more interesting than, say, that of Patrick Moraz. i'm VERY familiar with Tesla and his work, thank you. And Moraz's. And i still can't see the relevance of comparing the work of two people in 'disparate' fields... i can't even see the merit in comparing the work of 2 musicians, most of the time...plus - i don't get the jump from MIDI to Moraz - i think this proves my point - you seem to not like his music (as least as much as you like Tesla's inventions..?!?!) - so somehow this is a point against MIDI (our purported topic) Most of Moraz's groundbreaking work was very pre-midi - the Yes and Refugee albums, teh solo live inventions stuff - all analog and Non-Midi - are you refeerring only to his post midi stuff?? the albums with broford which used little or no midi either, and tons of good ol analog piano?? anyway - - YES - electricity lives, excellent point, but, TAA-DAH, MIDI is electrical signals!!! we're obviously on totally different wavelengths here. nice talking to ya, though andre' From ???@??? Tue Aug 18 08:42:09 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id KAA01633; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 10:04:37 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 10:04:37 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Paul.C.Wright@ercgroup.com Message-ID: To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Alesis Quadraverb For Trade Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 08:41:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"pPvra3.0.M-7._OOsr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1155 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hey Folks, I'm getting nostalgic; remembering the days when I used to scare my kids with dark strings swells, created by running my E-bowed, volume-pedaled guitar through an EH Flanger and delay. My E-bow disappeared when we moved into our house five years ago. Coincidence? I think not. Hence, I'm looking to trade my Alesis Quadraverb (MIDI capable, with manual) for an E-bow (or anything else that might be musically interesting). If interested, please drop me a private line at "xman127@aol.com". Ciao, Paul From ???@??? Tue Aug 18 08:42:16 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id KAA03987; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 10:24:52 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 10:24:52 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: GRAIGORY2@aol.com Message-ID: <33b03dd8.35d98cb1@aol.com> Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 10:16:15 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Equiptment Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"iBoeL2.0.Cl.ipOsr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1156 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Is anyone selling any AKAI MPC products or Ensoniq ASR-X's??? Also, anyone have suggestions on how to cut down signal noise? From ???@??? Tue Aug 18 13:50:04 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA29962; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 12:27:32 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 12:27:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: GRAIGORY2@aol.com Message-ID: <1c916519.35d9a721@aol.com> Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 12:09:04 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: CDR's Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"kaoQe2.0.PP5.eTQsr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1157 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Anyone selling CDRs? Also, for everyone on this list, descirbe your home studios, if you have one... From ???@??? Tue Aug 18 13:50:15 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA31835; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 12:31:35 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 12:31:35 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <001801bdcac3$738e9700$0d01a8c0@Remote> From: "Steve Lauder" To: Subject: Re: CDRs Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 17:15:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"5r806.0.x17.chQsr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1158 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Do you mean copied games and music software, CDR burners, or just CDRs of our own work? From ???@??? Tue Aug 18 13:50:11 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA05058; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 12:44:37 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 12:44:37 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: GRAIGORY2@aol.com Message-ID: <42c28436.35d9acfd@aol.com> Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 12:34:04 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, loopers-delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: CDRs Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"Gcwlo2.0.ZE.KrQsr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1159 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com The CD Burners... the actual hardware From ???@??? Tue Aug 18 13:50:14 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA08657; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 12:52:07 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 12:52:07 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: GRAIGORY2@aol.com Message-ID: <6a254418.35d9af67@aol.com> Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 12:44:22 EDT To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Syncing Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"WdD1O3.0.VN1.--Qsr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1160 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I have an ALESIS SR-16 drum machine that I am really thinking about selling... anyway, does anyone know how you can syncronize the drum machine with loops on the computer? And also, to reduce NOISE! compressor\limiters? peace From ???@??? Tue Aug 18 13:50:16 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA15091; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:06:10 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:06:10 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Evilgeek@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 12:56:52 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Syncing Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 78 Resent-Message-ID: <"9_vi02.0.5t2.1BRsr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1161 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 8/18/98 11:52:18 AM, you wrote: <> Ther's not much you can do- you can try and match the bpm of drum machine to the loop or you can use a harddisk recording program and hand sync them. I never really had problems with noise I just plugged in mono and had the volum nob about 1 3rd the way. Thats the best I can offer, I'm sure theres better- ///\ |OLO| \- / From ???@??? Tue Aug 18 13:50:22 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA29906; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:55:22 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:55:22 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 10:33:15 -0700 Message-ID: <0011210F.----@wj.com> From: Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle) Subject: Re[2]: Guitar Effects (non-looping content) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, andychu@juno.com (Andy Y Chu) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"uaDKq3.0.pO5.VlRsr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1162 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >The BOSS GT-5 has a ring modulator on it too, and an "intelligent mode" >that shifts the final sound back to the pitch you played. It's a floor >multi-effects unit if you didn't know, one of the higher-end ones. It's >very very good for making weird digital noises. It has just about every >effect in there, and you can put them in any order. And at the extremes >of the parameter ranges, it produces some very wacky sounds. It also has >a "virtual" expression pedal which is basically an LFO modulator. >Andy The Boss GX-700 has the same RMod from the sound of it. It can also place fx in any order and has a programmable and moveable fx loop. This allows me to place a pile of fuzzes and my analog filter in the loop and place them before or after other things like delay, pitch, rmod, flange, phase, etc. COSM based amp and speaker simulation as well as a representative pile of all the Boss fuzzes. You can attach up to 4 cc's for realtime control of all parameters. Pretty cheap as well. The 700 can be had from ~300.00 used on up. The GT5 is a little pricier, but it allows (i believe) up to 8 cc attachments for better realtime control and has one built in expression pedal... -miko From ???@??? Tue Aug 18 13:50:24 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA32407; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 14:01:13 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 14:01:13 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980818174839.0071cd5c@mail.dada.it> X-Sender: cavallo@mail.dada.it X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 19:48:39 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Leonardo Cavallo Subject: Re: Syncing Resent-Message-ID: <"mwsdm3.0.Jn6.kxRsr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1163 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 12.44 18/08/98 EDT, you wrote: >I have an ALESIS SR-16 drum machine that I am really thinking about selling... >anyway, does anyone know how you can syncronize the drum machine with loops on >the computer? And also, to reduce NOISE! compressor\limiters? > >peace > > > noise reduction softwares.... :) ciao leo From ???@??? Tue Aug 18 13:50:33 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA00886; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 14:04:00 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 14:04:00 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980818175013.007121bc@mail.dada.it> X-Sender: cavallo@mail.dada.it X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 19:50:13 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Leonardo Cavallo Subject: Re: Syncing Resent-Message-ID: <"CM5Tp3.0.-x6.6zRsr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1165 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 12.56 18/08/98 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 8/18/98 11:52:18 AM, you wrote: > ><selling... >anyway, does anyone know how you can syncronize the drum machine with loops on >the computer? Sync via MIDI your drum machine with the audio/MIDI sequencer you're using on the computer (I suppose...) ciao leo And also, to reduce NOISE! compressor\limiters? >>> > >Ther's not much you can do- you can try and match the bpm of drum machine to >the loop or you can use a harddisk recording program and hand sync them. I >never really had problems with noise I just plugged in mono and had the volum >nob about 1 3rd the way. Thats the best I can offer, I'm sure theres better- >///\ >|OLO| >\- / > > > From ???@??? Tue Aug 18 13:50:36 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA02465; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 14:07:34 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 14:07:34 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:50:42 -0400 (EDT) From: David Talento X-Sender: legion@unix01 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: CDR's In-Reply-To: <1c916519.35d9a721@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"lbCPR2.0.ft6.ZyRsr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1164 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com On Tue, 18 Aug 1998 GRAIGORY2@aol.com wrote: > Anyone selling CDRs? Also, for everyone on this list, descirbe your home > studios, if you have one... My label, Help Wanted Productions, just started releasing some CDrs along with our commercial CDs and Tapes. The CDrs are burned on a P166 with a Mitsumi 2X8 CD writer using digitally transferred data from the master DATs and are sold for $10 postpaid in the US ($11 elsewhere). Label, jewel case, J-card inserts etc are allincluded This has allowed HWP to release small quantities of our back catalog tapes and new material on CDs without having to do a run of 1000 and still sell them dirt cheap. This, in turn, allows us to be a little more adventurous with the music and still maintain excellent sound quality and the convenience of CD tracks, total length, etc. There is a full page (including picutres) explaining our use of CDrs from the Links on our catalog page. The most recent release (full of tape loops and other nonsense) is the first solely CDr release. Check it all out at: Http://www.voicenet.com/~legion/catalog.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- HELP WANTED PRODUCTIONS - Http://www.voicenet.com/~legion "Bringing you the best in Organic Electronic music since we started..." Home of the Unusual Instrument and Recording Gallery with pictures and info of Tube recorders, Omnichords, weird guitars, Casios, and more. From ???@??? Tue Aug 18 13:50:39 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA30162; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 14:58:56 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 14:58:56 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <000801bdcad8$2a7fb0c0$be084382@hovard> From: "Thomas Whni" To: Subject: Is CoolEdit 96 freeware? Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 20:43:58 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"0sWRH.0.PA6.4nSsr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1166 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hi all , I happened upon a page that contained the full version of Cool Edit 96. I was wondering if this is a cracked version , or if the program is free. I keep having these moral battles with myself on wether or not to use cracked software (and I don`t) so I wanted to check before I download. I`ve seen several mentions about CE so I figured this was the place to turn. Yours , Thomas W From ???@??? Tue Aug 18 13:50:51 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA03589; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 15:13:37 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 15:13:37 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: floyd@voicenet.com Date: 18 Aug 1998 19:04:17 -0000 Message-ID: <19980818190417.10079.qmail@unix01.voicenet.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Echoplex DP feedback Resent-Message-ID: <"VBSTg3.0.K.Z1Tsr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1167 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I inadvertently discovered (errr... make that stumbled) onto doubling the feedback by feeding the EDP's output back to it's input through my mixer - EDP into a channel strip and back out the aux send feeding the loop input. I figure this is not as clean a feedback loop as using the EDP's internel feedback. However, it lends itself to some interesting possibilities when the EDP's output is fed (via the channel strip's effects send) through modulation or pitch-shift. I had a nice little 4-bar phrase riding up a minor-3rd on each repetion. Ok, so now I'm trying to figure out what to do with THAT. I suppose a intelligent harmonizer would be nice about now :) From ???@??? Tue Aug 18 23:48:28 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id XAA11614; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 23:03:22 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 23:03:22 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 21:21:18 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: Live Looping @ Philly Fringe Festival Resent-Message-ID: <"2hjHw2.0.y02.QwZsr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1181 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Check out Saturday Sept 11th when through no acts of our own projects from three different list members will be performing....FingerPaint, Spin-17, & Adelante.... IMP! presents a series of concerts which challenge the boundaries of established music. Some of the most inspired improvisors converge on Philadelphia to perform beside our own local mavericks. Come and hear some surprising sounds and unique ensembles. This series runs from September 9-19, 1998. Donations are $5 at the door, probably $8 at Nick's. Donations for these events go directly to the performers. Venues Highwire Gallery 137 N. 2nd Street Philadephia (215) 829-1255 Third Street Gallery 58 N. 2nd Street Philadelphia (215) 625-0993 Upstairs at Nick's 16 S. 2nd Street Philadelphia (215) 928-9411 Performances Sept 9: UNSOUND & Greg Fuchs, Highwire Gallery Sept 10: WOZ/Robinson & Mike Walsh's "Man in the Basement", Highwire Gallery Sept 11: Fingerpaint, Ed Chang's Splint-127, & Paul Mimlitsch duo, 3rd Street Gallery Sept 12: COMMA, 3rd Street Gallery Sept 13: Catherine Vaucher (dance) & Dawn Culbertson, Highwire Gallery Sept 14: Fred Martin's "The Project" & The Down Sound: "Those Damn Degenerates Across the Hall", Highwire Gallery Sept 15: Mark Gastineau Septet: "Sorry Dad: A tribute to The Tower Recordings" & Companion Trio, Highwire Sept 16: Temple of Bon Matin & The Bowl, Upstairs at Nick's Sept 17: Plankton & Music in the Key of Zero & Neil Feather, Upstairs at Nick's Sept 18: Mike Taylor Trio & Margasak-Makihara-Eisenbeil-Wright, Upstairs at Nick's. Starts at 7PM! Sept 19: Straylight: Dialogues, 3rd Street Gallery For more information go to: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/5850/fringe.html Patrick Now Available: FingerPaint Primary Colors: BLUE A guitar-synth looping duo of dark illbience and dreamy ambience. Shockwave audio featuring our newest release Primary Colors:Blue www.fingerpaint.net From ???@??? Tue Aug 18 13:53:27 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA10877; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 16:42:53 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 16:42:53 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980818202220.0070d284@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:22:20 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Syncing Resent-Message-ID: <"eF28a.0.DE1.GHUsr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1168 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com You should be able to sync the drum machine to the computer with MIDI clock. I know the alesis drum machines support both sync in and out, so it can either be the master or the slave. Most computer sequencing/loop software should be able to do the same. It's usually pretty easy. kim At 12:56 PM 8/18/98 EDT, Evilgeek@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 8/18/98 11:52:18 AM, you wrote: > ><selling... >anyway, does anyone know how you can syncronize the drum machine with loops on >the computer? And also, to reduce NOISE! compressor\limiters? >>> > >Ther's not much you can do- you can try and match the bpm of drum machine to >the loop or you can use a harddisk recording program and hand sync them. I >never really had problems with noise I just plugged in mono and had the volum >nob about 1 3rd the way. Thats the best I can offer, I'm sure theres better- >///\ >|OLO| >\- / > > > _________________________________________________________ Kim Flint, MTS kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research 408-752-9284 http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Tue Aug 18 13:53:23 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA12447; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 16:46:13 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 16:46:13 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980818202521.00718f50@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:25:21 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Echoplex DP feedback Resent-Message-ID: <"abQeW3.0.ya1.1KUsr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1169 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 07:04 PM 8/18/98 -0000, floyd@voicenet.com wrote: > >I inadvertently discovered (errr... make that stumbled) onto >doubling the feedback by feeding the EDP's output back to it's >input through my mixer - EDP into a channel strip and back out >the aux send feeding the loop input. > >I figure this is not as clean a feedback loop as using the EDP's >internel feedback. However, it lends itself to some interesting >possibilities when the EDP's output is fed (via the channel strip's >effects send) through modulation or pitch-shift. I had a nice >little 4-bar phrase riding up a minor-3rd on each repetion. cool! the internal feedback is completely digital, so the sound is not affected by it. But your method has a lot more wild possibilities. kim _________________________________________________________ Kim Flint, MTS kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research 408-752-9284 http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Tue Aug 18 23:47:42 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA16964; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 16:56:17 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 16:56:17 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: RE: Is CoolEdit 96 freeware? Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:43:43 -0700 Message-ID: <000001bdcae8$e8efe060$b33ffea9@stepheng> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <000801bdcad8$2a7fb0c0$be084382@hovard> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"enikf3.0.Lv2.9VUsr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1170 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com The CoolEdit program is downloadable and useable, even if not registered. You'll be able to tell by the opening screen, and whether or not you have full functionality available. Now, if someone's just entered the registration code at some point in the past, it wouldn't be called 'cracked'; but, if someone has modified the actual program to not be limited in case of non-registration, this is INDEED in the definition. This, mind you, is a more serious form of software piracy, and in CoolEdit's case, must be very rare. If in any doubt, go to http://www.syntrillium.com and download the authorized version, which wants registration, but allows sufficient recording functionality in pre-registered form to be quite useful. You might - if you really think this is a 'cracked' program file, as opposed to just having had the reg code input - snitch to Syntrillium, and make some large points (if not a free copy of CoolEdit Pro!). Stephen Goodman * It's The Loop Of The Week! EarthLight Studios * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios Thomas Whni [mailto:hovard@online.no] asked: > I was wondering if this is a cracked version , or if the > program is free. From ???@??? Tue Aug 18 23:47:45 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA22302; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 17:08:16 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 17:08:16 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: GRAIGORY2@aol.com Message-ID: <16fc2e1b.35d9e9b3@aol.com> Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 16:53:06 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Syncing Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"LJGnN1.0.bx3.zdUsr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1171 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 8/18/98 2:00:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cavallo@dada.it writes: << noise reduction softwares.... :) >> know of any? shareware, freeware? From ???@??? Tue Aug 18 23:47:51 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA29121; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 17:23:33 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 17:23:33 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: GRAIGORY2@aol.com Message-ID: <8e1e1b13.35d9eb2c@aol.com> Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 16:59:23 EDT To: sgoodman@earthlight.net, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Is CoolEdit 96 freeware? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"15QFl1.0.kg4.IkUsr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1172 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 8/18/98 4:56:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sgoodman@earthlight.net writes: << You might - if you really think this is a 'cracked' program file, as opposed to just having had the reg code input - snitch to Syntrillium, and make some large points (if not a free copy of CoolEdit Pro!). >> But, that would be F*ed up... From ???@??? Tue Aug 18 23:48:01 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA11879; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 17:58:30 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 17:58:30 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980818214541.00713304@mail.dada.it> X-Sender: cavallo@mail.dada.it X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 23:45:41 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Leonardo Cavallo Subject: Re: Syncing Resent-Message-ID: <"Zws5i2.0.Nj1.sPVsr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1173 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 16.53 18/08/98 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 8/18/98 2:00:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cavallo@dada.it >writes: > ><< noise reduction softwares.... :) >> > > >know of any? shareware, freeware? > > > Diamond Cut, DART Pro, hundreds of Direct X plugins, etc.. which prog are you using? ciao leo From ???@??? Tue Aug 18 23:47:59 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id SAA13047; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 18:01:05 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 18:01:05 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <001d01bdcaf2$45dc3e00$17084382@hovard> From: "Thomas Whni" To: , Subject: Re: Is CoolEdit 96 freeware? Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 23:50:52 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"7lpsh2.0.bT2.9WVsr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1174 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >You might - if you really think this is a 'cracked' program file, as opposed >to just having had the reg code input - snitch to Syntrillium, and make some >large points (if not a free copy of CoolEdit Pro!). > Hi , Steven. Not really shure what you mean here. I go to syntrillium and ??? Anyways , I think the page I saw the program on actually was a sytrillium page!!! small world , eh? I was at a page with lots of utilities for my AWE 32 and found a list with some editors. When I clicked on Cool Edit I think the link brought me to syntrillium. If so I guess I have nothing to worry about? They wouldn`t offer "cracked" or working versions of the very prog they are offering to sell? Or maybe they just darn idealistic?? :-) Anyways , thanks for the help , there`s so much to learn and I`m grateful to all of you. Yours , Thomas W From ???@??? Tue Aug 18 23:48:04 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id SAA18134; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 18:12:38 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 18:12:38 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: GRAIGORY2@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 18:01:13 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Syncing Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"ZsekY3.0.JM3.udVsr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1175 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com right now... im using GOLDWAVE for editing, and MULTIQUENCE as a multitrack recorder... both are very easy to use and can be found at www.goldwave.com From ???@??? Tue Aug 18 23:48:06 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id SAA28263; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 18:35:44 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 18:35:44 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35DA0001.43D8E57D@bellsouth.net> Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 18:28:17 -0400 From: Jeff Duke X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Is CoolEdit 96 freeware? References: <001d01bdcaf2$45dc3e00$17084382@hovard> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Evxzh3.0.r06.F_Vsr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1177 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Thomas, The Cool Edit that they give you as a demo is great! The only thing is that you can only use two of the many features at a time and one of them is save file. So you can still use the noise reduction and save, or whatever and then you close it and bring it up again and use a different effect and save. Or you can pay 50.00 and get the reg.# that will unlock it. Cool Pro is 500.00 I think. Jeff Duke Thomas Whni wrote: > >You might - if you really think this is a 'cracked' program file, as opposed > >to just having had the reg code input - snitch to Syntrillium, and make some > >large points (if not a free copy of CoolEdit Pro!). > > > Hi , Steven. Not really shure what you mean here. I go to syntrillium and ??? > > Anyways , I think the page I saw the program on actually was a sytrillium page!!! > small world , eh? I was at a page with lots of utilities for my AWE 32 and found a list > with some editors. When I clicked on Cool Edit I think the link brought me to syntrillium. > If so I guess I have nothing to worry about? They wouldn`t offer "cracked" or working versions of the very prog they are offering to sell? Or maybe they just darn idealistic?? :-) > > Anyways , thanks for the help , there`s so much to learn and I`m grateful to all of you. > > Yours , Thomas W From ???@??? Tue Aug 18 23:48:12 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id SAA02073; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 18:50:57 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 18:50:57 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Crossedout@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 18:37:48 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Syncing Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"me1VL3.0.UG7.3AWsr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1178 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 8/18/98 4:08:37 PM Central Daylight Time, GRAIGORY2@aol.com writes: << << noise reduction softwares.... :) >> know of any? shareware, freeware? >> Check CoolEdit (by the way, shareware, not freeware :) ) ... it has noise reduction components to the program. - Crossedout@aol.com From ???@??? Tue Aug 18 23:48:05 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id SAA23225; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 18:24:15 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 18:24:15 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 16:16:29 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: dtapia@unoco.edu (Douglas Tapia) Subject: Re: Is CoolEdit 96 freeware? Resent-Message-ID: <"bOJ-Y3.0.4w4.brVsr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1176 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >In a message dated 8/18/98 4:56:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >sgoodman@earthlight.net writes: > ><< You might - if you really think this is a 'cracked' program file, as >opposed > to just having had the reg code input - snitch to Syntrillium, and make some > large points (if not a free copy of CoolEdit Pro!). >> > >But, that would be F*ed up... Why? I'm sure the folks at Syntrillium have families to feed. If you really like and regularaly use a piece of shareware, you should register it so that the author continues to update it and maybe even make other cool stuff. I say that someone taking the time to crack someone's program and make the cracked copy available is what is F'ed up. From ???@??? Tue Aug 18 23:48:15 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA27238; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 19:50:27 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 19:50:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <001801bdcb00$e34f3760$f8084382@hovard> From: "Thomas Whni" To: Subject: Re: Is CoolEdit 96 freeware? Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 01:35:30 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"WXZgw3.0.JV5.R2Xsr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1179 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hi all , I checked it and I`ve got the unreg version with the "2 things at a time" limit , so everything is ok. It seems like a great program indeed , the filter was cool for cleaning up them "nasty breakbeats" . one q How is the Cool Edit PRO(?) deifferent from a registered version of what I have? Yours , Thomas From ???@??? Tue Aug 18 23:48:24 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id VAA01567; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 21:23:24 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 21:23:24 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35DA26A1.1799D63F@bellsouth.net> Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 21:13:06 -0400 From: Jeff Duke X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Is CoolEdit 96 freeware? References: <001801bdcb00$e34f3760$f8084382@hovard> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LFt4L2.0.yC7.kPYsr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1180 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Cool Pro is also a hell of multi-track recorder, assembler. Great but 10 times the price and worth it. Jeff Thomas Whni wrote: > Hi all , I checked it and I`ve got the unreg version with the "2 things at a time" limit , so everything is ok. It seems like a great program indeed , the filter was cool for cleaning up > them "nasty breakbeats" . > > one q > How is the Cool Edit PRO(?) deifferent from a registered version of what I have? > > Yours , Thomas From ???@??? Wed Aug 19 01:20:06 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id EAA27460; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 04:06:33 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 04:06:33 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980819075231.006d4c44@mail.dada.it> X-Sender: cavallo@mail.dada.it X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 09:52:31 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Leonardo Cavallo Subject: Re: Syncing Resent-Message-ID: <"zZPaO3.0.OS6.nIesr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1182 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 18.01 18/08/98 EDT, you wrote: >right now... im using GOLDWAVE for editing, and MULTIQUENCE as a multitrack >recorder... both are very easy to use and can be found at www.goldwave.com > > > look at your signal path. where's the noise source? try to optimize your signal (s/n ratio) before to use a noise reduction program. I don't know those progs. Are they direct X compatible? ciao leo PS go private, maybe this is not so interesting for the list From ???@??? Wed Aug 19 09:44:06 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id EAA29683; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 04:30:33 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 04:30:33 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 00:57:39 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: ambient radio show Resent-Message-ID: <"kCpbM.0.d37.9jesr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1184 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com this fellow sent this to me, I'm just forwarding it on: >Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 14:57:30 -0700 (MST) >From: brainwaveskxci@juno.com >Subject: ambient radio show >To: kflint@annihilist.com >X-Personal_Name: roger greer > >Hello, I do an ambient radio show in Tucson, and would love to have >some music to audition for possible paly on the show. It airs on >KXCI community radio daily for one hour in th3e moring >thanks in advance >rbg > ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Wed Aug 19 09:45:48 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA23620; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 12:02:12 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 12:02:12 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 16:46:01 +0100 From: Martin Sommerville To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Tape Echo Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Becky! ver 1.23 X-Hops: 1 Resent-Message-ID: <"0DMVW3.0.c45.bBlsr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1185 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I was wondering if anybody on this list could tell me what kind of sound difference there is between a Roland Space Echo and a Watkins Copycat? Is the Roland far better? Or are there better tape echos around? I've been looking for a Space echo for ages, so any hints on where these things can be found would be appreciated. Thanks, Martin (new to the list) From ???@??? Wed Aug 19 09:45:52 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA27385; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 12:23:22 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 12:23:22 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: PJBMHB@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 12:14:34 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Tape Echo Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Resent-Message-ID: <"Kd6611.0.RJ6.nelsr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1186 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com didn't matchless come out with a tape echo a while back? it used a phone machine cartridge if i am not mistaken. =-) PJ From ???@??? Wed Aug 19 22:38:40 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA15147; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 14:40:17 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 14:40:17 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 11:52:02 -0600 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Edwin Hurwitz Subject: Jamman upgrades Resent-Message-ID: <"_ScqD1.0.Br2.6Qnsr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1187 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hi! On the loopers Delight Website there were mentions of someone working on upgrades for the Jamman. Does anyone know what became of this? TIA Edwin Edwin Hurwitz Boulder CO http://www.indra.com/~edwin From ???@??? Wed Aug 19 22:38:35 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA13636; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 14:30:04 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 14:30:04 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: RE: Is CoolEdit 96 freeware? Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 11:10:34 -0700 Message-ID: <001701bdcb9d$ddb56ac0$d22dfea9@stepheng> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <8e1e1b13.35d9eb2c@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"MkRtH.0.Jz2.KTnsr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1188 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I wrote: > You might - if you really think this is a 'cracked' program file, as > opposed to just having had the reg code input - snitch to > Syntrillium, and make some large points (if not a free copy of > CoolEdit Pro!). >> GRAIGORY2@aol.com [mailto:GRAIGORY2@aol.com] responded: > But, that would be F*ed up... And I beg to differ on this one considerably. There is a huge frigging difference between the following two examples: Someone who simply gives a copy of a program to a friend; or Someone who alters a program to get around non-purchase limits, and THEN distributes it to others, possibly via a web page. The first is simply an exchange in comparison with the second case, which is most definately more than sheer piracy, if not also mean-spirited, and just not very nice. The Software Protection Association (a ubiquitous name at best) continues to crow about the slightest infringement to their members' copyrights, while at times focusing on small, easy-to-sue companies and individuals; and, IMHO, so long as the computing public shows an interest in self-inspection, there's not much of a problem. But when individuals who pride themselves on being able to crack code limitations (as opposed to more productive work) and flaunt their work, much in the spirit of the Phone Phreaker, they deserve whatever happens to them. Those folks don't have respect for the people who worked on the app they've modified, but rather pretend that they're some sort of Digital Robin Hood when caught. They make life more difficult for regular folks who just might borrow an app, possibly with an idea to purchase later (gasp!), and, as such, they deserve anything that happens to them. On that level, there's absolutely NO SHAME in sending such folks up for proscecution, because it's also self-policing from Users' standpoints, and also keeps the SPA off Our backs. Stephen Goodman * It's The Loop Of The Week! EarthLight Studios * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios From ???@??? Wed Aug 19 22:39:26 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA18280; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:42:20 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:42:20 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Sender: r_t_cummings@csi.com Message-ID: <35DB1F7E.D291711C@csi.com> Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 20:54:54 +0200 From: Cummings X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: musique concrete References: <199808152049_MC2-562B-964B@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"54iXs.0.Z84.bKqsr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1193 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com You're right michael, those are (as usually is the case with the Wire) excellent articles. BTW, I was wondering if you or any of the other Koelner's on this list know or have had heard of Pluramon (article in the July issue of Wire) from Cologne. His most recent CD 'Render Bandits' on mille plateaux is quite exquisite and features Jaki Liebezeit on drums playing some of his grooviest stuff in years. Pluramon also makes extensive use of looping guitars and percussion etc. It's really some of best stuff I've heard in a while ... Bye 4 now, Rob Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com schrieb: > > for those people interested in the history of looping: my little looping > history article on the website mentions musique concrete very briefly. A very > nice extensive article about this topic can be found in the August issue of > WIRE (not Wired). > > One other thing I found in the same magazine is that there are tape loops on > Herbie Hancock's 1973 album SEXTANT (reissued on Sony recently) - the loops > contained sound generated by a device called Random Resonator which was > developed by a certain Tom Oberheim ... anyone know this guy? > > * michael peters mpeters@csi.com > * "escape veloopity" electronic guitar loop music > * http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Mpeters From ???@??? Wed Aug 19 22:39:02 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA04203; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 16:25:39 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 16:25:39 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: "Collins" To: Subject: Re: Live Looping @ Philly Fringe Festival Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 16:03:47 -0400 Message-ID: <01bdcbac$79af7fc0$191bbfa8@0QHC6SIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"O5Oas.0.YD.w1psr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1189 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com That sounds very interesting...is anyone going to be videotaping the festival. Or at least the parts with Fingerpaint and Spin-17? Let me know, please. Jeff -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Smith To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Tuesday, August 18, 1998 11:02 PM Subject: Live Looping @ Philly Fringe Festival >Check out Saturday Sept 11th when through no acts of our own projects from >three different list members will be performing....FingerPaint, Spin-17, & >Adelante.... > >IMP! presents a series of concerts which challenge the boundaries of >established music. Some of the most >inspired improvisors converge on Philadelphia to perform beside our own >local mavericks. Come and hear >some surprising sounds and unique ensembles. > >This series runs from September 9-19, 1998. Donations are $5 at the door, >probably $8 at Nick's. Donations >for these events go directly to the performers. > >Venues > >Highwire Gallery > 137 N. 2nd Street Philadephia > (215) 829-1255 >Third Street Gallery > 58 N. 2nd Street Philadelphia > (215) 625-0993 >Upstairs at Nick's > 16 S. 2nd Street Philadelphia > (215) 928-9411 > >Performances > > Sept 9: UNSOUND & Greg Fuchs, Highwire Gallery > Sept 10: WOZ/Robinson & Mike Walsh's "Man in the Basement", Highwire >Gallery > Sept 11: Fingerpaint, Ed Chang's Splint-127, & Paul Mimlitsch duo, >3rd Street Gallery > Sept 12: COMMA, 3rd Street Gallery > Sept 13: Catherine Vaucher (dance) & Dawn Culbertson, Highwire Gallery > Sept 14: Fred Martin's "The Project" & The Down Sound: "Those Damn >Degenerates Across the > Hall", Highwire Gallery > Sept 15: Mark Gastineau Septet: "Sorry Dad: A tribute to The Tower >Recordings" & Companion Trio, > Highwire > Sept 16: Temple of Bon Matin & The Bowl, Upstairs at Nick's > Sept 17: Plankton & Music in the Key of Zero & Neil Feather, >Upstairs at Nick's > Sept 18: Mike Taylor Trio & Margasak-Makihara-Eisenbeil-Wright, >Upstairs at Nick's. Starts at > 7PM! > Sept 19: Straylight: Dialogues, 3rd Street Gallery > > >For more information go to: > >http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/5850/fringe.html > > >Patrick > >Now Available: > FingerPaint Primary Colors: BLUE > >A guitar-synth looping duo of dark illbience and dreamy ambience. >Shockwave audio featuring our newest release Primary Colors:Blue > > www.fingerpaint.net > > > From ???@??? Wed Aug 19 22:39:18 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA13684; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:16:40 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:16:40 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 16:59:47 -0400 From: Andreas Willers Subject: Tape Echo Sender: Andreas Willers To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Message-ID: <199808191700_MC2-569B-A6DE@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"e3CoU1.0.5Y2.Kqpsr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1190 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com the Roland is the later and technically better unit, but it does not include a manually moveable play-head, which is incredible for quick, weird & detuned change of delay time - something I try to copy with digies ever since the day I parted from my Korg tape echo... best, Andreas From ???@??? Wed Aug 19 22:39:20 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA15681; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:27:48 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:27:48 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:16:44 -0400 (EDT) From: David Talento X-Sender: legion@unix01 Reply-To: David Talento To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Live Looping @ Philly Fringe Festival In-Reply-To: <01bdcbac$79af7fc0$191bbfa8@0QHC6SIA> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"DbCzl.0.iN3.a3qsr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1191 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In addition to the live shows the Philly Fringe festival is presenting three nights of music by Some guys some of you may have heard of: Brian Eno - 9/10 Robert Fripp - 9/17 David Bowie - 9/16 Basically they will be nights of playing records, outtakes, bootlegs, and such as well as discussions and information on the pieces and artists being played. For the Eno evening I'll be bringing a EMS VCS3 analog modular (the brother to the Synthi AKS Eno used) and present a short demonstration on Eno's "treatments" of sound and external processing. There may be some acoustic guitar performances as well. All shows at Jake and Oliver's on South 3rd st. From 9-12PM Should be an interesting time ... ----------------------------------------------------------------------- HELP WANTED PRODUCTIONS - Http://www.voicenet.com/~legion "Bringing you the best in Organic Electronic music since we started..." Home of the Unusual Instrument and Recording Gallery with pictures and info of Tube recorders, Omnichords, weird guitars, Casios, and more. From ???@??? Wed Aug 19 22:39:22 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA16309; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:32:11 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:32:11 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: GRAIGORY2@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:21:10 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Home Studio Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"qhNkT2.0.7a3.M8qsr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1192 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com This is how I have my little studio setup..... 1) I have two turntables and a tape deck that runs into a mixer... which then go into two directions....(1st direction.... from mixer to amp, then from amp to speakers)... (2nd direction.... from mixer to another mixer....) 2) The second mixer is responsible for the first mixer (from the turntables and tape deck), another turntable (used only for sampling), and a drum machine (which is another source of noise).... this mixer runs out into a graphic equalizer... 3) this equalizer runs into the computer's soundcard, and the soundcard runs out into a Technics receiver\amp, which runs out to a pair of JBL speakers.... any suggestions on how to change this around for better sound quality???? From ???@??? Wed Aug 19 22:39:32 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id SAA25645; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 18:13:57 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 18:13:57 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD05DF807@migarexch01.maritz.com> From: "Liebig, Steuart A." To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: sextant Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:02:15 -0500 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Resent-Message-ID: <"McdMe.0.ck5.Skqsr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1194 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com If you all haven't heard this record, it's highly recommended. By the same band that gave you "Crossings" and "Mwandishi" (and better than both of those too) . . . great, great stuff IMHO. stig > > One other thing I found in the same magazine is that there are tape > loops on > > Herbie Hancock's 1973 album SEXTANT (reissued on Sony recently) - the > loops > > contained sound generated by a device called Random Resonator which was > > developed by a certain Tom Oberheim ... anyone know this guy? > > > > * michael peters mpeters@csi.com > > * "escape veloopity" electronic guitar loop music > > * http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Mpeters > > From ???@??? Wed Aug 19 22:40:05 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id WAA25676; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 22:42:01 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 22:42:01 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: RE: Home Studio Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 19:29:18 -0700 Message-ID: <000001bdcbe2$7d20f040$139bfea9@stepheng> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Resent-Message-ID: <"vGeVT3.0.S26.Pgusr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1195 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com GRAIGORY2@aol.com [mailto:GRAIGORY2@aol.com] intoned: Often mixers have a single switch - sometimes one for each channel, which is best - defining which kind of signal level to handle the input of. My mixer alas only has one universal switch for all. One way I reduced noise in this respect was to isolate the line level inputs from the mic level ones; thereby keeping a mixer set to the correct level for all inputs. In this way, before, I had my drum machine, guitar, microphone, and line inputs from tapes and video combined on the same mixer, thus always guaranteeing that SOME instrument was on the wrong input setting at all times. Now I have the line inputs being added via a EQ unit that allows me to splice everything at the end into an all-line-level signal. Now it's frigging quiet, except for the standard substandard wiring in Los Angeles apartments... which, by the way, I always filter out in post. :) Stephen Goodman * It's The Loop Of The Week! EarthLight Studios * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios From ???@??? Thu Aug 20 09:37:38 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id FAA26905; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 05:15:56 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 05:15:56 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <009c01bdcc18$bbd7b7c0$0d01a8c0@Remote> From: "Steve Lauder" To: Subject: RE: Home Studio Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:58:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"jY0IH.0.wR6.wT-sr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1196 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Sounds like you've got a lot of cabling in your set-up... I might be making an obvious point here, but I've seen so many people making the mistake of purchasing high quality mixers, etc. and using tatty old speaker cables to join them all together. One of the quickest fixes for background noise is to buy the highest quality cabling you can afford. Lets say your source mixer (connected to two turntables and a tape deck) is sent out to another mixer via tatty cables. Your second mixer will pick up the noise from the shoddy cabling and amplify it. If you use your equaliser in a classic "V" setup, which has a lot of treble, this again will amplify the noise before it goes to your soundcard, which (if its anything like mine) produce plenty of noise on its own, before it's again amplified to the speakers... I think you see my point. Hope this helps, Steve From ???@??? Thu Aug 20 09:37:42 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id FAA28022; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 05:32:00 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 05:32:00 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <009e01bdcc1b$343f7840$0d01a8c0@Remote> From: "Steve Lauder" To: Subject: RE: Is CoolEdit 96 freeware? Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:15:51 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"bScOX.0.gk6.Uk-sr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1197 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I agree totally with you Stephen. SPA actually stands for Software Publishers Association, not Protection Association. You may have noticed my e-mail address is steve.lauder@elspa.com ... ELSPA is a European version of SPA (European Leisure Software Publishers Association), and amongst many other things, we look after the intellectual property rights of our members. When a company invests from 250,000 to 1 million pounds developing a software title, I think it is a very low act to defraud that company of the money it deserves. Indeed, many pirates in the UK (as I'm sure they do in America) create compilation CDs and add a tag to them to create an identity for themselves; for example Manga Vol X, (a games compilation) or Blobby 33 (Games and utilities compilation). When these pirates find others copying and selling their compilations, they don't take too kindly to someone else ripping off their hard work (like the pot calling the kettle black). Its the same for many of the musicians on this list, who I'm sure don't take too kindly to having their music copied and distributed by people who haven't got a clue how much work has gone into that recording. I suppose what I'm saying is it is morally incorrect to use pirated software - make sure everything you use is correctly licensed and registered. Music software is the most difficult to configure correctly for a Personal Computer, and technical support can save you hours of your time setting up your system - so it pays you to use genuine copies. Right, I'll get down off my soap box now! Steve Lauder From ???@??? Thu Aug 20 21:02:32 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA17731; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:41:20 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:41:20 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35DC184C.43C783B0@nyfac.com> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:36:28 +0100 From: "trevor bajus, digital surgeon" Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com Organization: New York Film and Animation Inc / 3DV X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: What?? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"utWtd3.0.X04.Qt5tr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1208 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Paul.C.Wright@ercgroup.com wrote: > A Quadraverb for an Ebow ??? Don't do it.You can get an Ebow from several > music retail stores for about $99 new.A used Quadraverb is worth about > $250-300.I don't know where you currently reside but you should be able to > locate a new Ebow.Lemme know what happens.I hope this helps you out. Even in NYC, a Quadraverb can be easily obtained for about $150 tdb From ???@??? Thu Aug 20 09:38:48 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id JAA13023; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:17:27 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:17:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: GRAIGORY2@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:07:32 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Home Studio Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"ohUlh3.0.jy2.m_1tr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1198 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Good advice... do you have any suggestions on the best type of stereo cables to get? From ???@??? Thu Aug 20 09:38:52 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id JAA15972; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:44:39 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:44:39 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <000b01bdcc3e$95310ba0$0d01a8c0@Remote> From: "Steve Lauder" To: Subject: RE: Home Studio Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:29:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"m9nbn3.0.xl3.sR2tr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1199 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Get yourself some oxygen-free cabling - the thicker the better (I have to admit, I'm not familiar with brands - I just go to a car Hi-fi store, and buy lengths of the stuff). If you buy large lengths of cabling, and cut it yourself, it works out marginally cheaper than buying cabling kits. If you do cut to length and find that you've left yourself short, don't tie more cabling to the end of it - the more naked wire you have, the more interference you pick up. If you have to use phono jacks, don't use solderless ones. Although they're easier to attach to your cabling, the connection isn't as good as a soldered one, and thus, you get marginal degredations of sound quality. I hope you get some improvement in your sound quality through this, believe me, it helped a lot with my setup. Steve Lauder From ???@??? Thu Aug 20 21:02:28 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA08827; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:46:06 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:46:06 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Paul.C.Wright@ercgroup.com Message-ID: To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: RE: What?? Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:27:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"jzw7_2.0.Co1.J35tr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1205 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Don, Thanks for the look-out. I realize the economics of it, and am willing to make the trade. I just don't use the Quadraverb enough to justify keeping it (frankly, it bores me - in retrospect, I wish that I had just bought a good used drum machine, e.g., EMU 2400). Thanks again - trade still open. <> > ---------- > From: Adrathe@aol.com[SMTP:Adrathe@aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 1998 10:10 PM > To: Wright, Paul C. (CAP, ERC) > Subject: What?? > > Hello, > > A Quadraverb for an Ebow ??? Don't do it.You can get an Ebow from > several > music retail stores for about $99 new.A used Quadraverb is worth about > $250-300.I don't know where you currently reside but you should be able to > locate a new Ebow.Lemme know what happens.I hope this helps you out. > > Don > From ???@??? Thu Aug 20 21:02:51 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA04240; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:44:15 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:44:15 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35DC3384.7F175B90@nyfac.com> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:32:36 +0100 From: "trevor bajus, digital surgeon" Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com Organization: New York Film and Animation Inc / 3DV X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: What? (Quadraverb/E-Bow Trade) References: <35DC6C23.F8AEF09@intcpi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6OD5Z3.0.KQ.7a7tr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1212 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com John Price wrote: > its kinda like welcome back kotter, ya know ??? > > remember arnold horshack the guy who always knew something ... > Though i clearly think its well intentioned. In this case its meant to keep > someone from swapping away somthin they may later regret. I used to do that so much that it seemed like it was a way of life for a while.... tdb From ???@??? Thu Aug 20 09:39:18 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA28119; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:20:05 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:20:05 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:09:21 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: RE: Home Studio In-Reply-To: <000b01bdcc3e$95310ba0$0d01a8c0@Remote> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"KzpUx2.0.UU6.In3tr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1200 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Steve Lauder wrote: > Get yourself some oxygen-free cabling - the thicker the better (I have to > admit, I'm not familiar with brands - I just go to a car Hi-fi store, and > buy lengths of the stuff). If you buy large lengths of cabling, and cut it > yourself, it works out marginally cheaper than buying cabling kits. For single-ended line-level connections (phone and RCA jacks), a very good and possibly cheap solution is CAT5 computer network cable. If you work around someplace with a computer network, you'll find they often throw used lengths of the stuff out that are yards long. It has 8 high-grade copper wires inside, in twisted pairs. Don't separate the pairs. Speaking of RCA jacks, avoid them like the plague! If you have some in your system, convert to a decent termination mechanism as soon as you can. The misanthrope who perpetrated standardizing the RCA connector on the audio equipment of decent human beings should be tortured, forced to listen to Barry Manilow, and tortured again. If your equipment supports it, use balanced connectors. XLR or 1/4" phone jacks both work fine. The whole point of balanced lines is hum and noise rejection, and they work very well. If you must use single-ended connectors, use 1/4" phone jacks, or better yet BNC. Pro video equipment uses BNC for sound connections. It's a solid, constant-tension, low-force connection designed to be connected and disconnected often. Moreover, BNC is so widely used in computer networks that you don't have to pay audio-industry markup for it. It's easier to use, cheaper, and provides a better connection than phone jacks (much less RCA, which is useless if you actually connect and disconnect regularly). Audio-grade wire is usually a ripoff. You're paying for packaging and advertising, not quality. Find some well-made satellite dish coax with and all-copper (not copper plated!) conductor and copper foil shield. Stranded is more flexible if you need that, but solid-core sounds better. Wire size isn't NEARLY as much of an issue as Monster Cable would have you believe. Wire quality and decent insulation are, though, and there's more to quality wire than "OFC". I build homebrew tube audio equipment. For internal signal wiring, the best cheap wire i've found is Radio Shack 32ga wire-wrap wire! It's so small that it's a pain to work with, and it's impractical for the home studio. But it's silver-plated OFC with excellent Teflon insulation (speaking of silver, use silver plated connectors rather than gold if you can. Gold conducts better, but the crap they have to put under it to get it to stick to base metal does not. Silver will plate directly to copper. Again, what looks good and what sounds good are different things) > If you do cut to length and find that you've left yourself short, don't tie > more cabling to the end of it - the more naked wire you have, the more > interference you pick up. If you have to use phono jacks, don't use > solderless ones. Although they're easier to attach to your cabling, the > connection isn't as good as a soldered one, and thus, you get marginal > degredations of sound quality. Don't knock crimping - IF you use proper crimping tools. A properly crimped connection forms a "cold weld" where the metals are bonded together. But this only works well with high-quality crimping tools and practice. You won't get a decent crimp with a pair of pliers, so you may as well solder. For soldering, try spending an extra buck or two on decent solder. Radio Shack sells fine gauge silver-bearing solder for little more than the cheap stuff. Get that, and a tube of rosin flux, and i *guarantee* you will get better connections! And learn to solder right... heat the joint, not the solder. A bad solder joint will crack and fail, and can even generate RF noise. > I hope you get some improvement in your sound quality through this, believe > me, it helped a lot with my setup. I'm sure it did! -dave Practice beautiful randomness and act kind of senseless. From ???@??? Thu Aug 20 10:08:02 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA01251; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:58:11 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:58:11 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <000e01bdcc50$c3827a40$0d01a8c0@Remote> From: "Steve Lauder" To: Subject: Re: Home Studio Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:39:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"osNTt2.0.M_7.sL4tr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1201 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >>> For single-ended line-level connections (phone and RCA jacks), a very good and possibly cheap solution is CAT5 computer network cable. If you work around someplace with a computer network, you'll find they often throw used lengths of the stuff out that are yards long. It has 8 high-grade copper wires inside, in twisted pairs. Don't separate the pairs. <<< >>> Speaking of RCA jacks, avoid them like the plague! If you have some in your system, convert to a decent termination mechanism as soon as you can. <<< OK OK, I see someone's experimented a little more than I have. When it comes to RCA jacks, you can't really do a lot when they're built in to your soundcard surely? And wouldn't it invalidate your warranty to change connectors on other audio devices too? >>> The misanthrope who perpetrated standardizing the RCA connector on the audio equipment of decent human beings should be tortured, forced to listen to Barry Manilow, and tortured again. <<< Are you suggesting that listening to Barry Manilow ISN'T torture? >>> Audio-grade wire is usually a ripoff. You're paying for packaging and advertising, not quality. Find some well-made satellite dish coax with and all-copper (not copper plated!) conductor and copper foil shield. Stranded is more flexible if you need that, but solid-core sounds better. Wire size isn't NEARLY as much of an issue as Monster Cable would have you believe. Wire quality and decent insulation are, though, and there's more to quality wire than "OFC". <<< I'm sure CAT-5 cabling IS much better than oxygen-free, but not everyone has access to it. I agree that the quality of the wire is more important than the thickness of it, and insulation is a big issue - but isn't good insulation what OFC is about? an airtight insulation around the wire? I've never heard of Monster Cable (I stated that I wasn't familiar with brands), and I wasn't trying to make out that OFC was the be-all and end-all of everything. I was merely trying to state that compared to tatty old speaker wire, OFC is a much better and more accessible alternative >>> I hope you get some improvement in your sound quality through this, believe >>> me, it helped a lot with my setup. >> I'm sure it did! Do I detect a note of carcasm in that comment? Steve From ???@??? Thu Aug 20 09:53:00 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA03977; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:17:29 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:17:29 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Edward_Chang@mail.amsinc.com X-Lotus-FromDomain: AMSINC To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Message-ID: <85256666.005790A9.00@ams-central-gate-5a.amsinc.com> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:07:13 -0400 Subject: RE: Home Studio Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"rZTER2.0.eZ.la4tr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1202 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Fantastic! This info is great for me right now since I just started doing my own wiring on my home-brew signal procesors. Thanks alot! Dave Stagner on 08/20/98 11:09:21 AM Please respond to Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com cc: (bcc: Edward Chang/AMS/AMSINC) Subject: RE: Home Studio On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Steve Lauder wrote: > Get yourself some oxygen-free cabling - the thicker the better (I have to > admit, I'm not familiar with brands - I just go to a car Hi-fi store, and > buy lengths of the stuff). If you buy large lengths of cabling, and cut it > yourself, it works out marginally cheaper than buying cabling kits. For single-ended line-level connections (phone and RCA jacks), a very good and possibly cheap solution is CAT5 computer network cable. If you work around someplace with a computer network, you'll find they often throw used lengths of the stuff out that are yards long. It has 8 high-grade copper wires inside, in twisted pairs. Don't separate the pairs. Speaking of RCA jacks, avoid them like the plague! If you have some in your system, convert to a decent termination mechanism as soon as you can. The misanthrope who perpetrated standardizing the RCA connector on the audio equipment of decent human beings should be tortured, forced to listen to Barry Manilow, and tortured again. If your equipment supports it, use balanced connectors. XLR or 1/4" phone jacks both work fine. The whole point of balanced lines is hum and noise rejection, and they work very well. If you must use single-ended connectors, use 1/4" phone jacks, or better yet BNC. Pro video equipment uses BNC for sound connections. It's a solid, constant-tension, low-force connection designed to be connected and disconnected often. Moreover, BNC is so widely used in computer networks that you don't have to pay audio-industry markup for it. It's easier to use, cheaper, and provides a better connection than phone jacks (much less RCA, which is useless if you actually connect and disconnect regularly). Audio-grade wire is usually a ripoff. You're paying for packaging and advertising, not quality. Find some well-made satellite dish coax with and all-copper (not copper plated!) conductor and copper foil shield. Stranded is more flexible if you need that, but solid-core sounds better. Wire size isn't NEARLY as much of an issue as Monster Cable would have you believe. Wire quality and decent insulation are, though, and there's more to quality wire than "OFC". I build homebrew tube audio equipment. For internal signal wiring, the best cheap wire i've found is Radio Shack 32ga wire-wrap wire! It's so small that it's a pain to work with, and it's impractical for the home studio. But it's silver-plated OFC with excellent Teflon insulation (speaking of silver, use silver plated connectors rather than gold if you can. Gold conducts better, but the crap they have to put under it to get it to stick to base metal does not. Silver will plate directly to copper. Again, what looks good and what sounds good are different things) > If you do cut to length and find that you've left yourself short, don't tie > more cabling to the end of it - the more naked wire you have, the more > interference you pick up. If you have to use phono jacks, don't use > solderless ones. Although they're easier to attach to your cabling, the > connection isn't as good as a soldered one, and thus, you get marginal > degredations of sound quality. Don't knock crimping - IF you use proper crimping tools. A properly crimped connection forms a "cold weld" where the metals are bonded together. But this only works well with high-quality crimping tools and practice. You won't get a decent crimp with a pair of pliers, so you may as well solder. For soldering, try spending an extra buck or two on decent solder. Radio Shack sells fine gauge silver-bearing solder for little more than the cheap stuff. Get that, and a tube of rosin flux, and i *guarantee* you will get better connections! And learn to solder right... heat the joint, not the solder. A bad solder joint will crack and fail, and can even generate RF noise. > I hope you get some improvement in your sound quality through this, believe > me, it helped a lot with my setup. I'm sure it did! -dave Practice beautiful randomness and act kind of senseless. From ???@??? Thu Aug 20 21:02:22 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA06937; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:35:47 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:35:47 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:24:52 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Home Studio In-Reply-To: <000e01bdcc50$c3827a40$0d01a8c0@Remote> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"3u52b1.0.EG1.0u4tr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1203 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Steve Lauder wrote: > >>> Speaking of RCA jacks, avoid them like the plague! If you have some in > your system, convert to a decent termination mechanism as soon as you can. > <<< > > OK OK, I see someone's experimented a little more than I have. When it > comes to RCA jacks, you can't really do a lot when they're built in to your > soundcard surely? And wouldn't it invalidate your warranty to change > connectors on other audio devices too? I wouldn't change the RCA jacks in your sound card. But maybe use some good RCA-BNC converters? That way, if you're plugging and unplugging stuff regularly, you won't be putting stress and wear on that cheap connector (mounted on a cheap PCB, too). Or just use good RCAs, connect your mixer to your PC, and DON'T move it unless you absolutely have to! > >>> The misanthrope who perpetrated standardizing the RCA connector on the > audio equipment of decent human beings should be tortured, forced to > listen to Barry Manilow, and tortured again. <<< > > Are you suggesting that listening to Barry Manilow ISN'T torture? Nah, the torture is just a warm-up. :} > >>> Audio-grade wire is usually a ripoff. You're paying for packaging and > advertising, not quality. Find some well-made satellite dish coax with > and all-copper (not copper plated!) conductor and copper foil shield. > Stranded is more flexible if you need that, but solid-core sounds better. > Wire size isn't NEARLY as much of an issue as Monster Cable would have you > believe. Wire quality and decent insulation are, though, and there's more > to quality wire than "OFC". <<< > > I'm sure CAT-5 cabling IS much better than oxygen-free, but not everyone has > access to it. I agree that the quality of the wire is more important than > the thickness of it, and insulation is a big issue - but isn't good > insulation what OFC is about? an airtight insulation around the wire? I've > never heard of Monster Cable (I stated that I wasn't familiar with brands), > and I wasn't trying to make out that OFC was the be-all and end-all of > everything. I was merely trying to state that compared to tatty old speaker > wire, OFC is a much better and more accessible alternative Actually, OFC means no oxygen (and no copper oxide, AKA corrosion) in the wire itself. Oxygen and copper are both pretty reactive, and it's difficult to keep the oxygen out during the wire drawing process. OFC is "Oxygen-Free Copper", and usually rated "four nines" or "six nines", suggesting 99.99% pure or 99.9999% pure. Monster Cable is hugely marketed stuff you'll find in most audio and car audio stores. They started the whole "big wire" thing, and they concentrate a lot on the visual appeal of their products. Ripoff!! For good, cheap, premade connectors, try Radio Shack. Get the stuff with gold-plated connectors with spring strain relief. It's cheap and very durable, and you won't hear a difference between it and Monster Cable connectors costing 10 times as much. If you're making your own cables, buy nice Switchcraft, Re-An, or other brand name connectors in bulk from an electronics catalog like Mouser or Allied. > >>> I hope you get some improvement in your sound quality through this, > believe > >>> me, it helped a lot with my setup. > > >> I'm sure it did! > > Do I detect a note of carcasm in that comment? Nope! Good cabling made with care and attention to detail will improve any system. I have no doubt that you heard a huge improvement when you rewired your system. :} -dave Practice beautiful randomness and act kind of senseless. From ???@??? Thu Aug 20 21:02:27 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA09157; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:47:50 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:47:50 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <2C396693FBDED111AEF60000F84104A71A6402@indyexch_fddi.indy.tce.com> From: Hoover Alan To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Home Studio Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:30:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"5TKZX3.0.tY1.O-4tr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1204 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Actually, there is a lot of controversy regarding oxygen-free cable. And it has nothing to do with "better insulation keeping the oxygen away from the copper". Oxidized copper is a result of the manufacturing process of the metal itself, and of rolling the metal in one direction vs another. The result is kind of like a semiconductor. Its resistance to current flow in one direction is a little different than the resistance in the other direction. This is what a diode (rectifier) does. Hence, an ac signal could theoretically be distorted. Pay close attention to the "theoretically" part. Each tiny molecular domain of oxygenated copper might have this distortion characteristic to some small degree, but when you combine "billions and billions" of domains, everything averages out. No distortion. Also, it makes no difference whether you use stranded or solid wire for audio. Stranded holds up better when repeatedly flexing it, so it is best in the long run. Litz wire, consisting of many strands which are individually insulated from each other has a theoretical advantage at high frequencies because of magnetically-induced eddy currents and "skin-effect", but not at audio frequencies. Belden (large cable company) and others have researched these things pretty thoroughly and even done double-blind testing. Conclusion: No one can hear the difference. They still sell ofc though, because there is a misinformed market for it. Gold plating of connectors, on the other hand, does make quite a difference. Extreme oxidation of non-plated connectors is the rule, not the exception, with very measurable and hearable contact rectification taking place. I hope this sheds some light on the subject. -----Original Message----- From: Steve Lauder [mailto:steve.lauder@elspa.com] Sent: Thursday, August 20, 1998 8:29 AM To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: RE: Home Studio Get yourself some oxygen-free cabling - the thicker the better (I have to admit, I'm not familiar with brands - I just go to a car Hi-fi store, and buy lengths of the stuff). If you buy large lengths of cabling, and cut it yourself, it works out marginally cheaper than buying cabling kits. If you do cut to length and find that you've left yourself short, don't tie more cabling to the end of it - the more naked wire you have, the more interference you pick up. If you have to use phono jacks, don't use solderless ones. Although they're easier to attach to your cabling, the connection isn't as good as a soldered one, and thus, you get marginal degredations of sound quality. I hope you get some improvement in your sound quality through this, believe me, it helped a lot with my setup. Steve Lauder From ???@??? Thu Aug 20 21:02:29 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA11439; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:02:12 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:02:12 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <000901bdcc58$ebc6bae0$0d01a8c0@Remote> From: "Steve Lauder" To: Subject: Re: SPA et al Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:37:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"1u98f.0.UE2.dC5tr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1206 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hi again Stephen, thanks for your comments. We don't actually deal with corporate piracy of applications, we deal primarily with "Leisure Software" eg Games & multimedia titles. Here in the UK, we don't take a tip-off and go gung-ho on a company or a pirate, we use private investigators to make test-purchases, so we have physical evidence of their activities. The company in the UK that deals with corporate piracy is called the PCA (Personal Computer Association), and even they aren't so off-the-cuff. If they receive information about a company, they send a letter to them first, asking for official license documents for the software, and then they check 3 computers a day - to avoid too much disturbance, and gradually go through the company. Anyway, its good to here some people do care about the legalities behind their software usage - it benefits all of us at the end of the day (more money to put back into development) Steve Lauder From ???@??? Thu Aug 20 21:02:31 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA11872; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:04:38 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:04:38 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <000801bdcc5b$062c51e0$5c094382@hovard> From: "Thomas Whni" To: Subject: Re: Is CoolEdit 96 freeware? Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:53:04 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"rLZRU.0.sa2.zK5tr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1207 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Steve and Stephen , I agree wholeheartedly. >I agree totally with you Stephen. > >SPA actually stands for Software Publishers Association, not Protection >Association. You may have noticed my e-mail address is >steve.lauder@elspa.com ... ELSPA is a European version of SPA (European >Leisure Software Publishers Association), and amongst many other things, we >look after the intellectual property rights of our members. > >When a company invests from 250,000 to 1 million pounds developing a >software title, I think it is a very low act to defraud that company of the >money it deserves. Indeed, many pirates in the UK (as I'm sure they do in >America) create compilation CDs and add a tag to them to create an identity >for themselves; for example Manga Vol X, (a games compilation) or Blobby 33 >(Games and utilities compilation). When these pirates find others copying >and selling their compilations, they don't take too kindly to someone else >ripping off their hard work (like the pot calling the kettle black). > >Its the same for many of the musicians on this list, who I'm sure don't take >too kindly to having their music copied and distributed by people who >haven't got a clue how much work has gone into that recording. > >I suppose what I'm saying is it is morally incorrect to use pirated >software - make sure everything you use is correctly licensed and >registered. Music software is the most difficult to configure correctly for >a Personal Computer, and technical support can save you hours of your time >setting up your system - so it pays you to use genuine copies. > >Right, I'll get down off my soap box now! > >Steve Lauder > > > From ???@??? Thu Aug 20 21:02:33 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA23604; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:19:28 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:19:28 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Paul.C.Wright@ercgroup.com Message-ID: To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: RE: What? (Quadraverb/E-Bow Trade) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:59:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"pf68m3.0.DG5.BM6tr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1209 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Egads, folks (LOL)! I know how much used Quadraverbs and Ebows cost, and where I can purchase them. I'm trying to find out if there are any other instrumentally restless souls that would like to trade. > ---------- > From: trevor bajus, digital surgeon[SMTP:nyfac2@nyfac.com] > Reply To: nyfac2@nyfac.com > Sent: Thursday, August 20, 1998 7:36 AM > To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Subject: Re: What?? > > Paul.C.Wright@ercgroup.com wrote: > > > A Quadraverb for an Ebow ??? Don't do it.You can get an Ebow from > several > > music retail stores for about $99 new.A used Quadraverb is worth about > > $250-300.I don't know where you currently reside but you should be able > to > > locate a new Ebow.Lemme know what happens.I hope this helps you out. > > Even in NYC, a Quadraverb can be easily obtained for about $150 > > tdb > From ???@??? Thu Aug 20 21:02:43 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA27641; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:44:27 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:44:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35DC6C23.F8AEF09@intcpi.com> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:34:12 -0400 From: "John Price" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: What? (Quadraverb/E-Bow Trade) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dYdkl.0.dB6.Cj6tr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1210 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com its kinda like welcome back kotter, ya know ??? remember arnold horshack the guy who always knew something ...he'd have his hand up goin ohh ooohhhh mr kotter, mr kotter !!! It gets like that really fast round these parts. Tough i clearly think its well intentioned. In this case its meant to keep someone from swapping away somthin they may later regret. Paul.C.Wright@ercgroup.com wrote: > Egads, folks (LOL)! I know how much used Quadraverbs and Ebows cost, and > where I can purchase them. I'm trying to find out if there are any other > instrumentally restless souls that would like to trade. > > > ---------- > > From: trevor bajus, digital surgeon[SMTP:nyfac2@nyfac.com] > > Reply To: nyfac2@nyfac.com > > Sent: Thursday, August 20, 1998 7:36 AM > > To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > > Subject: Re: What?? > > > > Paul.C.Wright@ercgroup.com wrote: > > > > > A Quadraverb for an Ebow ??? Don't do it.You can get an Ebow from > > several > > > music retail stores for about $99 new.A used Quadraverb is worth about > > > $250-300.I don't know where you currently reside but you should be able > > to > > > locate a new Ebow.Lemme know what happens.I hope this helps you out. > > > > Even in NYC, a Quadraverb can be easily obtained for about $150 > > > > tdb > > From ???@??? Thu Aug 20 21:02:46 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA01500; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:28:06 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:28:06 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980820191807.00f115d4@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:18:07 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Home Studio Resent-Message-ID: <"GUQyD.0.Vy7.YP7tr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1211 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com just adding a quick note to all this advice: the other day I sourced an ugly digital whine noise in my rack to one of the cables. I spent a week suspecting and checking every piece of gear, changing the order of stuff, playing with isolation, even opening a few things and looking for any mysterious shorts, with no result. Finally discovered that switching one cable from left channel to right channel caused the noise to follow.....swapped out the cable and the noise was gone. The problem? I measured the cable with an ohmmeter, 10 ohms across the ground from one end to the other!!! This usually means either the shield is damaged or there is a problem in the connector itself. In my case it was the connector. Letting my EE background kick in: impedance across the ground meant my audio signal to the power amp was not choosing that nice short path for its ground, and instead took some long circular path to find a ground path between the one output and the power amp input. This created a big current loop, acting as an antennae and picking up the horrible noise from some other piece of gear that was normally silent. the moral: use good quality cables, with good, secure shielding. Doesn't need to be some exotic alloy for $300/ft. Just good quality and save yourself a lot of trouble. And take care of them....cables that have been stepped on for years, wrapped up a thousand times, yanked around.......the shields will get pretty frayed. Replace 'em! That can definitely affect things like system noise. It can even affect the sound, if a large resistance in a ground/signal wire and the natural capacitance of the wire form a filter in the audio range, you can hear it. kim ________________________________________________________ Kim Flint, MTS 408-752-9284 Chromatic Research kflint@chromatic.com http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Thu Aug 20 21:03:02 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id SAA25309; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:17:20 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:17:20 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: GRAIGORY2@aol.com Message-ID: <3ae1f0a8.35dc96a5@aol.com> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:35:32 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Home Studio Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"w8UVI3.0.LO1.oR9tr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1213 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Today, I went and picked up the Soundblaster 128PCI soundcard... From ???@??? Thu Aug 20 21:03:13 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA12130; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 19:00:41 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 19:00:41 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980820155017.006b6ef4@popper.simi-valley.tt.slb.com> X-Sender: cavaleri@popper.simi-valley.tt.slb.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:50:19 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Joe Cavaleri Subject: Re: Jamman upgrades Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"uFcwC1.0.-M1.zSAtr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1214 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hi Edwin - This is from last year.... You might want to contact Bob Sellon. If there is anything new, please post it to the list. joe Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 14:29:30 -0500 Resent-Message-Id: <"5Vic8B.A._2G.ZdPV0"@ferret> Sorry it's taken me so long to report back on the JamMan upgrade but unfortunately, things have not gone that well. Officially, the JamMan deal with Lexicon fell through. Being an employee of Lexicon, they were concerned about the destraction of starting a buisness on the side so they kept putting me off and off and off. Finally, I decided that, even if I was able to cut a deal, it would end up being a major pain in the ass (I am a programmer and a musician, not a businessman/shipper and recieiver). I want to spend my time programming and playing music not accounting/shipping and receiving. It would just be too much of a hit on my other activities. However,....all is not lost. I am a valued employee at Lexicon and they seemed to have noticed my preoccupation with looping. Quite unofficially, there are some low level rumblings of folding some of my newer looping stuff into a not so distant future Lexicon product. I can't go into the details but, they are listening to customer requests and they do count the inquires on the Lexicon web page (lexicon.com). If you want Lexicon to make looping products, YOU have to tell them. They hear it from me and they think it's just this preoccupation of mine. Meanwhile, I am still working on software that will run on the JamMan platform and have been authorized by Lexicon to use outside resources to test conceptual ideas. Many people have inquired to me directly about upgrading their JamMen. I will contact them each on a one to one basis to go over the details. Anyone interested in this should contact me directly at bsellon@lexicon.com. Make sure the word "JamMan" is in the subject. Bob Sellon Lexicon/Stec Software Engineer bsellon@lexicon.com At 11:52 AM 8/19/98 -0600, you wrote: >Hi! > On the loopers Delight Website there were mentions of someone >working on upgrades for the Jamman. Does anyone know what became of this? > >TIA >Edwin > >Edwin Hurwitz >Boulder CO >http://www.indra.com/~edwin > > > > From ???@??? Fri Aug 21 09:47:00 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id DAA08724; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 03:56:31 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 03:56:31 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Sender: mpeters@csi.com Message-ID: <01BDCCE8.9DD9FD70.mpeters@csi.com> From: Michael Peters To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: AW: musique concrete Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 07:58:50 +0200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-Mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vve9l.0.Ya1.aRItr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1215 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Rob Cummings wrote, > You're right michael, those are (as usually is the case with the Wire) > excellent articles. BTW, I was wondering if you or any of the other > Koelner's on this list know or have had heard of Pluramon (article in > the July issue of Wire) from Cologne. His most recent CD 'Render > Bandits' on mille plateaux is quite exquisite and features Jaki > Liebezeit on drums playing some of his grooviest stuff in years. > Pluramon also makes extensive use of looping guitars and percussion etc. > It's really some of best stuff I've heard in a while ... I've heard the name, but none of the music. Sounds very interesting, thanks for the recommendation. I just discovered that Wire is a very interesting magazine - missed the July issue but I can probably still get it here at A-Musik, which is the best record shop in Cologne for experimental music. Jaki Liebezeit, eh? He's an excellent drummer. I used to play together with him (and 50 other people) in an improvisation orchestra called 'Intermission' here in Cologne, in the eighties. Big fun. * michael peters mpeters@csi.com * "escape veloopity" electronic guitar loop music * http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Mpeters From ???@??? Fri Aug 21 09:47:09 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id FAA08577; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 05:18:22 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 05:18:22 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <002501bdcce0$3251bc80$0d01a8c0@Remote> From: "Steve Lauder" To: Subject: Re: Home Studio Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 09:45:58 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"p_ukh1.0.Qw7.TOJtr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1216 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >Today, I went and picked up the Soundblaster 128PCI soundcard... Great! Do you think you could let me know how you get on with it? I'm itching to upgrade my AWE 64, but I'm looking for the right card to do it with. The main thing I'm concerned about is how heavily it relies on the CPU for its operations. I run a P166MMX (6 months ago it sounded like a dream machine, now it sounds like I need to upgrade!), and even a simple task such as playing a music CD whilst playing Quake causes considerable system slowdown. - Steve From ???@??? Fri Aug 21 09:47:22 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id JAA01465; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 09:04:24 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 09:04:24 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Sender: mpeters@csi.com Message-ID: <01BDCD13.7EE08D00.mpeters@csi.com> From: Michael Peters To: "'Loopers Delight'" Subject: Purple Modal Strobe Ecstasy with the Daughters of Destruction Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 14:53:22 +0200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-Mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kesks2.0.Ch7.CxMtr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1218 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I'm just listening to a new CD of classical Terry Riley loop music: a 40 minutes selection from a 1968 All Night Flight concert called "Purple Modal Strobe Ecstasy with the Daughters of Destruction". Riley (calling himself "Poppy Nogood and the Phantom Band") plays soprano saxophone, organ, and "time-lag accumulator", his own pre-Frippertronics loop system. Wonderful oldfashioned loops for the lover of early minimal music! This recording is the first of a CD release series of old Riley recordings which have never been available. Check the Cortical Foundation http://www.cortical.org/spores/Corti4.html for details. The website says, >Poppy Nogood for soprano saxophone and time-lag accumulator. Loudspeakers placed around the >audience. An all-overness. Music in a field. Modal lines inspired in part by Coltrane's "My >Favorite Things". Building on the echo. Riley: "The music has to flow in our bloodstream and we >have to be carried by its bloodstream". * michael peters mpeters@csi.com * "escape veloopity" electronic guitar loop music * http://listen.to/michaelpeters From ???@??? Fri Aug 21 09:47:21 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id JAA01553; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 09:04:36 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 09:04:36 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: GRAIGORY2@aol.com Message-ID: <9a3df771.35dd6e72@aol.com> Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 08:56:17 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Home Studio Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"OlPXc1.0.qe7.uwMtr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1217 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com well... today i will be taking the 128 back and getting a 64awe because the 128 needs a P133 atleast... I only have a P90... how do you go about recording from your computer? From ???@??? Fri Aug 21 09:47:31 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id KAA28589; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 10:05:45 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 10:05:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <000701bdcd09$ea523de0$0d01a8c0@Remote> From: "Steve Lauder" To: Subject: RE: Recording from your computer Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 14:44:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"8rRJW2.0.Hn5.OmNtr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1220 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com If you mean recording from your computer in the literal sense with the AWE 64 Gold, there's an extra plate that comes with the card that allows you to plug in a DAT for recording to. If you don't have, or can't afford DAT, you can always just plug into the Auxillary socket of your amplifier/HiFi, and record to normal tape as you would off the radio. As for recording to CD-R, you can do this by exporting your tracks as WAV files, usw Adaptec Easy CD PRO to convert them to standard audio files, and then just burn to the CD. The other advantage of this is it needs to store the CD image on your hard drive, so you only need to do all the converting once, and then you can burn as many copies as you like. If, on the other hand, you're asking about hard disk recording, well... I'm afraid you're going to have to upgrade your system. I think Cubase VST and Cakewalk 6.0 both recommend P166 MMX's as a minimum spec for HD recording, and as pointed out earlier this week (or last week, can't remember now) a SCSI drive is indespensable. You then record to your hard drive from the line-in or microphone sockets on your soundcard, or from your CD-ROM drive. Hope this helps, Steve Lauder From ???@??? Fri Aug 21 09:47:30 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id KAA26820; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 10:01:50 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 10:01:50 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: RA336@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 09:52:35 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Looping on tour August/October Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 84 Resent-Message-ID: <"Cmaoj1.0.Ni5.hlNtr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1219 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hello all... just to let you know I will be providing looping and roots guitar with Canadian artist Douglas September in support of his elegant "Ten Bulls" release on the following dates in the Northeast: Wed 8/26 Ithaca, NY: The Haunt 10 pm Thurs 8/27 NYC : The Living Room 9:30pm Fri 8/28 NYC : The Bottom Line 9:30pm Sat 8/29 NYC: TBA Sun 8/30 NYC : TBA Mon 8/31 NYC : Arlene's Grocery 7:00pmTue 9/1 NYC : Borders/World Trade Center 12:30pm Thurs 9/3 Woodstock NY : Tinker Steet Cafe 10pm Fri 9/4 Portland, ME WGME 12:00pm (Live show) Fri 9/4 Portland, ME WCLZ 2:00 pm (show will air after 4pm) Fri 9/4 Portland, ME Borders Books & Music 7:30 pm Sat 9/5 Portland, ME Stone Coast Brewery 9:30pm Sat 9/6 TBA Sun 9/7 TBA In October, I'm going out looping and being in general funky with the newly re-formed Tom Tom Club (with founding members Chris Frantz & Tina Weymouth) dates: Fri 10/2 Providence, RI : Lupo's Sat 10/3 Boston : Paradise Fri 10/9 Hoboken : Maxwell's Sat 10/10 Northampton : Pearl Street Fri 10/16 Washington DC : The Bayou Sat 10/17 Pasadena, MD : Daytona's Fri 10/23 New Haven : Toad's Place Sat 10/24 Old Bridge NJ : Birch Hills Nightclub Fri 10/30 Philadelphia : Theater of Living Arts Sat 10/31 NYC : Tramps best regards, RA From ???@??? Fri Aug 21 09:47:48 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA30017; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 11:21:28 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 11:21:28 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Javier Miranda V." To: Subject: RE: Home Studio Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 08:12:08 -0700 Message-ID: <001301bdcd16$107639c0$9bccefd1@electra> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: <002501bdcce0$3251bc80$0d01a8c0@Remote> Resent-Message-ID: <"Zi-Cn1.0.786.ZtOtr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1221 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I recommend you read the information at http://www.guillemot.com. Their soundcard is pretty decent. I purchased their Home Studio thing. Since I don't have other software like Cubase or Cakewalk, I don't know if they have any issues with this soundcard; however, the recording program called Quartz SE it comes with is so-so. Anyway, it is said not to rely heavily on your CPU. For the money, I think it's a bargain. I found the best price at http://www.necx.com. I used to have a Cyrix P166+ (so-called P133) and really slow old-style IDE hard drive, a Quantum BigFoot. Since then I've upgraded to an Asus TX-97E motherboard with a Pentium 233MMX and a Western Digital Ultra-DMA 6.3-GB hard drive, as well as a Maxtor Ultra-DMA 11-GB hard drive, and this things rocks. I'm now considering that new AMD P300 "2" CPU they got out that fits in my Socket-7 type of plug for the CPU. That should really speed it all up. However, I'm also considering it may make more sense to buy a whole new computer with a Pentium II 400 MHz. They are really fast. This month they started building 450-MHz computers. | -----Original Message----- | From: Steve Lauder [mailto:steve.lauder@elspa.com] | Sent: Friday 21 August 1998 1:46 AM | To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com | Subject: Re: Home Studio | | | >Today, I went and picked up the Soundblaster 128PCI soundcard... | | | Great! Do you think you could let me know how you get on with it? I'm | itching to upgrade my AWE 64, but I'm looking for the right card to do it | with. The main thing I'm concerned about is how heavily it relies on the | CPU for its operations. | | I run a P166MMX (6 months ago it sounded like a dream machine, | now it sounds | like I need to upgrade!), and even a simple task such as playing | a music CD | whilst playing Quake causes considerable system slowdown. | | - Steve | | From ???@??? Fri Aug 21 09:47:50 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA32256; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 11:26:40 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 11:26:40 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Reply-To: From: "JMI" To: Subject: RE: Looping on tour August/October Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 08:12:15 -0700 Message-ID: <001401bdcd16$14b7b400$9bccefd1@electra> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: Resent-Message-ID: <"4HmaJ3.0.i86.etOtr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1222 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Why don't you guys also tour the west coast? I feel like I'm missing out. I wish you a great experience and, if you record a couple of gigs, hopefully we can get to hear them somehow. Regards to lovely Tina. JM Berkeley, Calif. | -----Original Message----- | From: RA336@aol.com [mailto:RA336@aol.com] | Sent: Friday 21 August 1998 6:53 AM | To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com | Subject: Looping on tour August/October | | | Hello all... | just to let you know I will be providing looping and roots guitar with | Canadian artist Douglas September in support of his elegant "Ten Bulls" | release on the following dates in the Northeast: | | Wed 8/26 Ithaca, NY: The Haunt 10 pm | Thurs 8/27 NYC : The Living Room 9:30pm | Fri 8/28 NYC : The Bottom Line 9:30pm | Sat 8/29 NYC: TBA | Sun 8/30 NYC : TBA | Mon 8/31 NYC : Arlene's Grocery 7:00pmTue 9/1 NYC : Borders/World | Trade Center | 12:30pm | Thurs 9/3 Woodstock NY : Tinker Steet Cafe 10pm | Fri 9/4 Portland, ME WGME 12:00pm (Live show) | Fri 9/4 Portland, ME WCLZ 2:00 pm (show will air after 4pm) | Fri 9/4 Portland, ME Borders Books & Music 7:30 pm | Sat 9/5 Portland, ME Stone Coast Brewery 9:30pm | Sat 9/6 TBA | Sun 9/7 TBA | | In October, I'm going out looping and being in general funky with | the newly | re-formed Tom Tom Club (with founding members Chris Frantz & Tina | Weymouth) | dates: | Fri 10/2 Providence, RI : Lupo's | Sat 10/3 Boston : Paradise | Fri 10/9 Hoboken : Maxwell's | Sat 10/10 Northampton : Pearl Street | Fri 10/16 Washington DC : The Bayou | Sat 10/17 Pasadena, MD : Daytona's | Fri 10/23 New Haven : Toad's Place | Sat 10/24 Old Bridge NJ : Birch Hills Nightclub | Fri 10/30 Philadelphia : Theater of Living Arts | Sat 10/31 NYC : Tramps | | best regards, | RA | | From ???@??? Fri Aug 21 09:47:53 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA08189; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 11:45:34 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 11:45:34 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <005f01bdcd1a$90b70840$c5b854ce@mark.asisoftware.com> From: Mark@asisoftware.com (Mark Kata) To: Subject: Re: Looping on tour August/October Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 11:44:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"nlcHI1.0.WU.sBPtr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1223 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Robby, What gear will you be using? How will you interface it with the PA? Thanks, Mark Kata Mark@asisoftware.com -----Original Message----- From: RA336@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Friday, August 21, 1998 10:02 AM Subject: Looping on tour August/October >Hello all... >just to let you know I will be providing looping and roots guitar with >Canadian artist Douglas September in support of his elegant "Ten Bulls" >release on the following dates in the Northeast: > >Wed 8/26 Ithaca, NY: The Haunt 10 pm >Thurs 8/27 NYC : The Living Room 9:30pm >Fri 8/28 NYC : The Bottom Line 9:30pm >Sat 8/29 NYC: TBA >Sun 8/30 NYC : TBA >Mon 8/31 NYC : Arlene's Grocery 7:00pmTue 9/1 NYC : Borders/World Trade Center >12:30pm >Thurs 9/3 Woodstock NY : Tinker Steet Cafe 10pm >Fri 9/4 Portland, ME WGME 12:00pm (Live show) >Fri 9/4 Portland, ME WCLZ 2:00 pm (show will air after 4pm) >Fri 9/4 Portland, ME Borders Books & Music 7:30 pm >Sat 9/5 Portland, ME Stone Coast Brewery 9:30pm >Sat 9/6 TBA >Sun 9/7 TBA > >In October, I'm going out looping and being in general funky with the newly >re-formed Tom Tom Club (with founding members Chris Frantz & Tina Weymouth) >dates: >Fri 10/2 Providence, RI : Lupo's >Sat 10/3 Boston : Paradise >Fri 10/9 Hoboken : Maxwell's >Sat 10/10 Northampton : Pearl Street >Fri 10/16 Washington DC : The Bayou >Sat 10/17 Pasadena, MD : Daytona's >Fri 10/23 New Haven : Toad's Place >Sat 10/24 Old Bridge NJ : Birch Hills Nightclub >Fri 10/30 Philadelphia : Theater of Living Arts >Sat 10/31 NYC : Tramps > >best regards, >RA > From ???@??? Sat Aug 22 00:07:58 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA07928; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 14:06:47 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 14:06:47 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980821135705.0079f710@popmail.voicenet.com> X-Sender: ngc1275@popmail.voicenet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:57:05 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Theatre of the Mind Subject: Laptop Soundcard Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"BLAMw3.0.9x.OKRtr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1224 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hi All, Can anyone recomend a good sound card for my laptop? I have a Panasonic CF-63, 166mhz w/ accelerater, 32mb ram, pentium, 32 bit. I want to be able to record samples directly into my laptop from my mixer. Right now I get a lot of hiss going through the mic input. (which is an 1/8" plug, urgh!) Also, when I play clean samples live I get cpu noise. Is there anyway to illiminate that? It seems to show up more when I perform live in a club. Will a better sound card improve that? Cost is a consideration too. My apology for the non-looping content. I appreciate any information that will help me get to a better looping sound though. Thanx, Mark of b. From ???@??? Sat Aug 22 00:08:00 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA19822; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 14:32:17 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 14:32:17 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Nemoguitt@aol.com Message-ID: <6a304f78.35ddb972@aol.com> Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 14:16:17 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: a rang idea Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"Ct9FK1.0.393.wcRtr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1225 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com hello....just got my amp back from the shop, an ol fender champ, havent used it in years. ive been going into my merantz 4 trac direct into my stereo with my rang. today i took the line out of the rang and sent it to the champ, nice sound. then i thought, what about this rca line out on the rang? i sent that back into the merantz and into the stereo. well this may be old news to you but i was quite pleased to see that the stereo played only the loop and not the stuff i was playing over the loop, that came out of the champ only (of course with the loop also). whenever i would stack a new line it would be added to the stereo output. simply put, if you do not use the rca line out on the rang hook it into something (with a silver and gold plated, oxigen free, thermo-nucleaer shielded cable, needless to say) :) for me this was a great find........michael From ???@??? Sat Aug 22 00:08:07 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA30294; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 16:05:37 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 16:05:37 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: The Unit Circle Message-Id: <199808211931.PAA02944@keys.com> Subject: Seattle looping shows (Intonarumori) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 15:31:45 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"2v68B1.0.Mm3.gjStr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1226 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Sorry for the forward, but there is a lot of info here... Oh yeah, I've put a diagram of the set-up I used on tour on the intonarumori web site. My set up with these shows will be similar, but it will be augmented somewhat. If you make it, say hi. I always want to meet other local loopers. Kevin > Didn't get my act together to get out the normal mail postcards in-time... > > Intonarumori will be performing twice in the next week and once the week > after that.... > > Saturday, 11pm, KCMU radio (90.3 FM) on Sonarchy radio program > Intonarumori will be augmented with Ray Hodder (vocals), Detonator Beth > (vocals), Eveline Muller-Graf (metal percussion) and David Fulweiler > (violin, keyboards) for a performance of the Celan Suite (the same one > that was performed at Arts Edge). There will also be some solo and other > group pieces as time permits. > > Wednesday, 9pm, the Speakeasy (back room), 2nd at Bell, $5 donation > This is a double bill with koto-ist Brett Larner. This will be the first > solo intonarumori performance of the year and will feature electric cello, > bass and strange electronics. bring your hallucinogenics, this should be > fairly trippy. > > Thursday, September 3rd, 6pm-?, The Parlour Room, 163 South Jackson (3rd > Floor) > Wind down from first thursday with a cadre of local visual and audio > experimentalists including Intonarumori, Chris Delaurenti, Mark > Taylor-Canfield, Lama Kunga Gyaltsen, Ffej and InBoil. > > > Check out the new website... www.intonarumori.com > > Also check out the tentacle for more information, of all sorts, > www.tentacle.org > > > thanks, > > Kevin > > From ???@??? Sat Aug 22 00:08:09 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA29959; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 16:04:54 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 16:04:54 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: The Unit Circle Message-Id: <199808211937.PAA03178@keys.com> Subject: Re: Laptop Soundcard To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 15:37:42 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980821135705.0079f710@popmail.voicenet.com> from "Theatre of the Mind" at Aug 21, 98 01:57:05 pm Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"ynP2Z.0.PO4.woStr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1227 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > Can anyone recomend a good sound card for my laptop? I have a Panasonic > CF-63, 166mhz w/ accelerater, 32mb ram, pentium, 32 bit. I want to be able > to record samples directly into my laptop from my mixer. Right now I get > a lot of hiss going through the mic input. (which is an 1/8" plug, urgh!) > This sounds like a shielding problem. The inside of a computer is an amazingly noisy environment (electronically). This is why the higher end audio cards have breakout boxes. I'm not sure if there are any laptop soundcards that fix this problem. > Also, when I play clean samples live I get cpu noise. Is there anyway to > illiminate that? It seems to show up more when I perform live in a club. > Will a better sound card improve that? Cost is a consideration too. > Again, it sounds like a shielding problem. If it's worse in a club, I wonder if it's also a power issue. You might help the issue out if you used a power conditioner. I would borrow one before you bought one, they're not too cheap. A really good power conditioner will eliminate most of the noisy variations in the current going to your machine and that might help, but I'm not positive. Kevin From ???@??? Sat Aug 22 00:08:10 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA11000; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 16:35:31 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 16:35:31 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: GRAIGORY2@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 16:00:07 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Help!!!!!!!!!!!! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"qM1k72.0.Nw6.C8Ttr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1228 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I'm trying to install my soundblaster AWE 64... but now my computer wont recognize my cd rom for some reason... what do i do???????? From ???@??? Sat Aug 22 00:08:13 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA14128; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 16:42:39 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 16:42:39 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35DDD474.381B@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:11:34 -0700 From: scott kungha drengsen X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: a rang idea References: <6a304f78.35ddb972@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7UNlm1.0.x97.DATtr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1229 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I've used this for a while now.Usually with 2 amplifiers.Very nice for fadeouts;the aux.out is the last audible point when using the 'rang's roller volume and the volume of the loop can be manipulated at either amp.You could get the same effect,(and some stereo pingponging)with your mixer.--scott From ???@??? Sat Aug 22 00:08:12 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA14621; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 16:43:52 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 16:43:52 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Marzzz@aol.com Message-ID: <705fd91e.35ddd7d6@aol.com> Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 16:25:57 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Laptop Soundcard Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 78 Resent-Message-ID: <"1-nbQ3.0.hn1.ZWTtr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1230 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 8/21/98 3:04:25 PM, you wrote: <> Laptops are becoming more powerful, and with the bigger screens, quite a reasonable alternative to desktops. Anyone check out the new Apple Powerbooks lately? I would love to see some manufacturer produce a digital I/O card for laptops that connects either by SCSI, USB, PCMCIA slot, or some such possibility. It would be great to be able to have a mobile computer system for gigs and such, or at the very least not have a huge computer and monitor take up half the studio! Marshall From ???@??? Sat Aug 22 00:08:32 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA06250; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 19:22:05 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 19:22:05 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 17:05:35 -0400 X-Sender: robm@mailgate.nytimes.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Robert Monn Subject: Re: Help!!!!!!!!!!!! Resent-Message-ID: <"EylLA3.0.IE.LvVtr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1231 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com get a mac. (oops... did I say that?) _________________________________ /robb monn -- robm@nytimes.com | From ???@??? Sat Aug 22 00:08:35 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA08381; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 19:26:47 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 19:26:47 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980821173003.0079f7f0@popmail.voicenet.com> X-Sender: ngc1275@popmail.voicenet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 17:30:03 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Theatre of the Mind Subject: Re: Laptop Soundcard In-Reply-To: <705fd91e.35ddd7d6@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"EqShG2.0.l_.y_Vtr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1232 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 04:25 PM 8/21/98 EDT, you wrote: > >In a message dated 8/21/98 3:04:25 PM, you wrote: > ><an amazingly noisy environment (electronically). This is why the higher >end audio cards have breakout boxes. I'm not sure if there are any laptop >soundcards that fix this problem.>> > >Laptops are becoming more powerful, and with the bigger screens, quite a >reasonable alternative to desktops. Anyone check out the new Apple Powerbooks >lately? I would love to see some manufacturer produce a digital I/O card for >laptops that connects either by SCSI, USB, PCMCIA slot, or some such >possibility. It would be great to be able to have a mobile computer system for >gigs and such, or at the very least not have a huge computer and monitor take >up half the studio! > > >Marshall > > > Yup, I'm trying to create a mobile system on laptop for my samples and loops. It seems it's costing me clean sound. Mark of b. From ???@??? Sat Aug 22 00:08:42 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA15798; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 19:43:12 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 19:43:12 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980821174358.0079ecf0@popmail.voicenet.com> X-Sender: ngc1275@popmail.voicenet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 17:43:58 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Theatre of the Mind Subject: Re: Laptop Soundcard In-Reply-To: <199808211937.PAA03178@keys.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19980821135705.0079f710@popmail.voicenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"icy2U1.0.nX2.5DWtr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1234 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hi Kevin, I don't leave home without my power conditioner. It's the Furman PL-PLUS. I'm not sure what a break out box is. Is there a way to access I/O through serial or parallel ports?. I thought I might be able to get a better sound card for my laptop. There must be a way to solve this problem. I did some searching and couldn't find much for laptops. I must not be looking in the right places. Mark of b. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ At 03:37 PM 8/21/98 -0400, you wrote: >> Can anyone recomend a good sound card for my laptop? I have a Panasonic >> CF-63, 166mhz w/ accelerater, 32mb ram, pentium, 32 bit. I want to be able >> to record samples directly into my laptop from my mixer. Right now I get >> a lot of hiss going through the mic input. (which is an 1/8" plug, urgh!) >> > This sounds like a shielding problem. The inside of a computer is >an amazingly noisy environment (electronically). This is why the higher >end audio cards have breakout boxes. I'm not sure if there are any laptop >soundcards that fix this problem. > >> Also, when I play clean samples live I get cpu noise. Is there anyway to >> illiminate that? It seems to show up more when I perform live in a club. >> Will a better sound card improve that? Cost is a consideration too. >> > Again, it sounds like a shielding problem. If it's worse in a >club, I wonder if it's also a power issue. You might help the issue out >if you used a power conditioner. I would borrow one before you bought >one, they're not too cheap. A really good power conditioner will >eliminate most of the noisy variations in the current going to your >machine and that might help, but I'm not positive. > > Kevin > > > > From ???@??? Sat Aug 22 00:08:36 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA10573; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 19:31:43 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 19:31:43 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <000401bdcd51$0901cd40$8e084382@hovard> From: "Thomas Whni" To: Subject: Converting FileFormats. Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 00:14:15 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"03yMl3.0.Ai1.t5Wtr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1233 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hi all , I`m trying to put werid samples into my songs in Cubase. But most of the stuff I find on the net is in the wrong format. Basically , I need a file in 16-bit , 44.1 kHz ,right? Is there a way to convert a file , say an 8-bit , 22. kHz file into 16 bit , 44.1 kHz?? And if so , can it be done with a program on my computer? And is this "dram-program" available for free , if it even exists?? I hope so. Yours , Thomas W From ???@??? Sat Aug 22 00:08:50 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id UAA24177; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 20:02:27 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 20:02:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: GRAIGORY2@aol.com Message-ID: <985f45df.35de062e@aol.com> Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 19:43:41 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Converting FileFormats. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"O750m3.0.U14.hPWtr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1235 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com couldnt you just Resample them? From ???@??? Sat Aug 22 00:08:49 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id UAA25334; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 20:05:05 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 20:05:05 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35DE087A.B61CFF66@bellsouth.net> Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 19:53:30 -0400 From: Jeff Duke X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Converting FileFormats. References: <000401bdcd51$0901cd40$8e084382@hovard> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"I6Gtt3.0.Fr4.qWWtr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1236 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I don't know about Cubase but with Cool Edit http://www.syntrillium.com/ I can *Open As* any type waveform I want. Perhaps Cubase does the same. Jeff Thomas Whni wrote: > Hi all , I`m trying to put werid samples into my songs in Cubase. But most of the stuff > I find on the net is in the wrong format. Basically , I need a file in 16-bit , 44.1 kHz ,right? > > Is there a way to convert a file , say an 8-bit , 22. kHz file into 16 bit , 44.1 kHz?? > And if so , can it be done with a program on my computer? And is this "dram-program" available for free , if it even exists?? I hope so. > > Yours , Thomas W From ???@??? Sat Aug 22 00:09:00 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id VAA05716; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 21:53:14 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 21:53:14 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <001201bdcd6c$4b6f7680$cf084382@hovard> From: "Thomas Whni" To: Subject: Re: Converting FileFormats. Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 03:29:23 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"HNB603.0.qB7.o-Xtr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1237 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >I don't know about Cubase but with Cool Edit http://www.syntrillium.com/ I can *Open As* any type waveform I want. Perhaps Cubase does the >same. > >Jeff > Graigory wrote: >couldnt you just Resample them? > You guys are both right. When I checked Cool Edit I found I could choose "Open as" and chose the format. Thanks Jeff , I guess I should check things out a little more before I post some silly question , huh? Yours , Thomas From ???@??? Sat Aug 22 00:09:24 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id AAA03561; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 00:24:02 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 00:24:02 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: RE: Help!!!!!!!!!!!! Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 21:14:35 -0700 Message-ID: <000201bdcd83$76ee9900$e13fdacf@stepheng> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"BS7K42.0.P2.7Oatr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1238 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com GRAIGORY2@aol.com [mailto:GRAIGORY2@aol.com] inquired: > I'm trying to install my soundblaster AWE 64... but now my > computer wont recognize my cd rom for some reason... what do i do???????? Hopefully to negate the pointless suggestion regarding some arbitrary computer platform, this is a common side-effect of multimedia card installations, and various instances of Windows95 installs. :) Step one, Check Your Connections! The ribbon connector for CD-ROMs tends to be fairly easy to dislodge by the slightest nudge, and since you've had your hands in the box, I'd say check this first. Two. On occasion this can be solved by running the Add New Hardware routine in Control Panel. This does not always recognize the drive, either - but, generally, the newer the card/cpu, the more likely that this will be successful. Three. Sometimes the answer is to trick Windows into recognizing the drive again, using the real-mode drivers that still might be addressed in your Config.SYS and Autoexec.BAT files. Make sure you have the lines for the CD-ROM driver in Config.SYS, and MSCDEX's item in Autoexec.BAT, which were probably REMmed out by various installations of the past. Regardless of how your drive is attached (via the sound card, or your IDE interface), the above should be valid. So if you unREM the lines-in-question, then restart your system, you SHOULD see the drive in My Computer. Have fun! Stephen Goodman * It's The Loop Of The Week! EarthLight Studios * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios From ???@??? Sat Aug 22 00:09:41 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id CAA13739; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 02:04:05 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 02:04:05 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Javier Miranda V." To: Subject: RE: Help!!!!!!!!!!!! Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 22:58:26 -0700 Message-ID: <000501bdcd91$e135e6c0$0cc3efd1@electra> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"KUFRW1.0.Dc2.Hsbtr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1239 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com The set-up must have renamed your Autoexec.Bat and Config.sys. I'm assuming you're using Windows 95. Soundcards love to insert little strings into those files. Stephen Goodman has already given you very good advice. But I had already typed my $0.02 when I saw his words. So here they go anyway. You might have to manually find your correct set-up files and rengage the CD-ROM driver, then reboot your computer. Else, you might want to have Windows 95 "redetect" your CD-ROM. Right-click "My Computer" and go into properties. Then go to the Device Manager tab; click on "Refresh." This should make Windows 95 look for all your hardware again. If you can't get this going these ways: I'd say 1) call the people who manufactured your computer; or 2) Call the Soundblaster technical support; or 3) call Microsoft and pay the $35 for them to help you get the CD-ROM back. Especially when you're not very familiar with this stuff, it tends to be a hellish experience. But look at the bright side: You're learning something new. Cheers. Javier | -----Original Message----- | From: GRAIGORY2@aol.com [mailto:GRAIGORY2@aol.com] | Sent: Friday 21 August 1998 1:00 PM | To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com | Subject: Help!!!!!!!!!!!! | | | I'm trying to install my soundblaster AWE 64... but now my computer wont | recognize my cd rom for some reason... what do i do???????? | | From ???@??? Sat Aug 22 00:09:42 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id CAA14930; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 02:07:01 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 02:07:01 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Javier Miranda V." To: Subject: RE: Help!!!!!!!!!!!! Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 22:58:28 -0700 Message-ID: <000601bdcd91$e231abe0$0cc3efd1@electra> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"72btH3.0.Gc2.Hsbtr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1240 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Shame on you. | -----Original Message----- | From: Robert Monn [mailto:robm@nytimes.com] | Sent: Friday 21 August 1998 2:06 PM | To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com | Subject: Re: Help!!!!!!!!!!!! | | | get a mac. (oops... did I say that?) | | _________________________________ | /robb monn -- robm@nytimes.com | | | | From ???@??? Sat Aug 22 12:30:38 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id KAA28931; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 10:33:57 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 10:33:57 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199808221414.HAA16951@magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Subject: Looping show tonight (Saturday) in San Antonio Date: Sat, 22 Aug 98 09:16:41 +0100 x-sender: tiktok@pop.a001.sprintmail.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Tiktok Mobile HQ To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"trDrs2.0.Xx4.c9jtr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1242 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com There will be a show tonight, August 22nd, at the Clippership Bookstore (722 Balcones Heights Road) in San Antonio featuring two Texas-based looping musicians, Tiktok and James Rhodes. Admission is free, the show starts at 7PM and will run until 10 or so. Experimental music of the ambient, not-so ambient, and extremely unambient variety will be offered for your enjoyment. Be seeing you, Travis Hartnett Tiktok From ???@??? Sat Aug 22 12:30:28 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id IAA04670; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 08:16:06 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 08:16:06 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980822121012.007177b8@mail.dada.it> X-Sender: cavallo@mail.dada.it X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 14:10:12 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Leonardo Cavallo Subject: Re: Converting FileFormats. Resent-Message-ID: <"Vs0m32.0.Kl.HMhtr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1241 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 00.14 22/08/98 +0200, you wrote: > >Hi all , I`m trying to put werid samples into my songs in Cubase. But most of the stuff >I find on the net is in the wrong format. Basically , I need a file in 16-bit , 44.1 kHz ,right? > >Is there a way to convert a file , say an 8-bit , 22. kHz file into 16 bit , 44.1 kHz?? >And if so , can it be done with a program on my computer? And is this "dram-program" available for free , if it even exists?? I hope so. > >Yours , Thomas W > > > Hi the best prog for coverting file formats for PC is Awave. Current version is 4.8. It can do all in batch processing... you select hundreds of files and impost what to do, then let it go until it's done. Maybe I have the demo somewhere... ciao leo From ???@??? Sat Aug 22 12:30:41 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA18915; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 11:25:40 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 11:25:40 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <001501bdcddf$35611d80$0a094382@hovard> From: "Thomas Whni" To: Subject: Re: Converting FileFormats. Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 17:11:58 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"nbUIo1.0.VX3.x1ktr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1243 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hi Leo , there is that word again: Batch processing, Bacth converter etc. I always wondered what it meant. Batch = a whole pile of stuff? at the same time? Yours , Thomas From ???@??? Sat Aug 22 12:30:43 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA23025; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 11:35:13 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 11:35:13 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: YummyBoy25@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 11:29:18 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Burning Man Loop Camp Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 52 Resent-Message-ID: <"BW-nv.0.a85.ZGktr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1244 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hello fellow loopers, are any of you going to be at Burning Man next week? I'm going to have a combination Looping/Zen Napping camp, let me know if you are going so we can loop happily on the playa. See you at the burn- Scooter. From ???@??? Sat Aug 22 12:30:53 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA07464; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 12:16:59 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 12:16:59 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980822155932.0071c32c@mail.dada.it> X-Sender: cavallo@mail.dada.it X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 17:59:32 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Leonardo Cavallo Subject: Re: Converting FileFormats. Resent-Message-ID: <"ESCRr.0.uF.Hjktr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1245 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 17.11 22/08/98 +0200, you wrote: >Hi Leo , there is that word again: Batch processing, Bacth converter etc. I always wondered what it meant. Batch = a whole pile of stuff? at the same time? > >Yours , Thomas > > > yes, you can process a lot of files in one time. the prog does all. ciao leo From ???@??? Sat Aug 22 12:30:52 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA05128; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 12:11:07 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 12:11:07 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Javier Miranda V." To: Subject: RE: Converting FileFormats. Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 09:08:29 -0700 Message-ID: <000401bdcde7$19cf5700$05cdefd1@electra> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19980822121012.007177b8@mail.dada.it> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"IDIMz3.0.1q.Voktr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1246 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Well, going from 8-bit to 16-bit is like going from 72 dpi to 300 dpi. You can do it, but it doesn't sound too good -- look too good. As with dpi, it's best to work from the top down for results. If you find a sample on the Internet that's 8-bit, I would suggest you leave that alone and use it as is. An an example, I think the introduction to Yes' "Owner of a Lonely Heart," the killer drum part, was a low-quality sample -- I guess high-quality at that time. Have you tried CoolEdit? The one that's like a freeware version? | -----Original Message----- | From: Leonardo Cavallo [mailto:cavallo@dada.it] | Sent: Saturday 22 August 1998 5:10 AM | To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com | Subject: Re: Converting FileFormats. | | | At 00.14 22/08/98 +0200, you wrote: | > | >Is there a way to convert a file , say an 8-bit , 22. kHz file | into 16 bit | , 44.1 kHz?? | >And if so , can it be done with a program on my computer? And is this | "dram-program" available for free , if it even exists?? I hope so. | > | >Yours , Thomas W | > | > From ???@??? Sat Aug 22 12:30:56 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA12636; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 12:29:54 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 12:29:54 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: doug@mail.lightlink.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000401bdcde7$19cf5700$05cdefd1@electra> References: <2.2.32.19980822121012.007177b8@mail.dada.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 12:24:44 -0400 To: From: Doug Wyatt Subject: RE: Converting FileFormats. Resent-Message-ID: <"_QHiv1.0.ke2.i3ltr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1247 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 9:08 -0700 8/22/98, Javier Miranda V. wrote: > Well, going from 8-bit to 16-bit is like going from 72 dpi to 300 dpi. >You can do it, but it doesn't sound too good -- look too good. As with >dpi, it's best to work from the top down for results. absolutely true... > If you find a sample on the Internet that's 8-bit, I would suggest you >leave that alone and use it as is. An an example, I think the >introduction to Yes' "Owner of a Lonely Heart," the killer drum part, was >a low-quality sample -- I guess high-quality at that time. ... but the thread started because Thomas' software will only work with 16-bit 44100 files. A better analogy is that converting from 8-bit 22.05 Khz to 16-bit 44.1 KHz is like going from 75 dpi to 300 dpi. I don't know if that's actually mathematically correct but you get the idea: it scales up perfectly without any artifacts being introduced by "stretching" and all you're losing is disk space. Of course you're not gaining any quality by using the higher resolution (no free lunch) but it makes the software happy. Doug -- Doug Wyatt doug@sonosphere.com Sonosphere (electric/improv music) http://www.sonosphere.com/ "Accidental Beauties" CD release: http://www.sonosphere.com/wyatt/ available from CMC, 1-800-882-4262 http://www.MusicDiscoveries.com/ From ???@??? Sat Aug 22 12:31:00 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA27248; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 14:26:39 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 14:26:39 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <35DF0A90.30E19711@sonic.net> Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 11:14:41 -0700 From: Layne Russell X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Burning Man Loop Camp References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zqhcz.0.wA6.xmmtr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1248 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com YummyBoy25@aol.com wrote: > Hello fellow loopers, are any of you going to be at Burning Man next week? I'm > going to have a combination Looping/Zen Napping camp, let me know if you are > going so we can loop happily on the playa. > See you at the burn- > Scooter. nope, not going, but we have a friend who is. Laura's part of the Shiva camp and will be going around with an electronic keyboard, speakers, mike, playing and singing Shiva chants. say hi to Laura for us! (she's from Sebastopol, CA, a great pianist.) Layne and James From ???@??? Sat Aug 22 15:21:01 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA21440; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 16:50:17 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 16:50:17 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Crossedout@aol.com Message-ID: <9d67fab3.35df2d91@aol.com> Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 16:43:59 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Converting FileFormats. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"80Ric2.0._k4.Stotr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1249 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com CoolEdit can convert, and it's shareware, so you can do the converts without paying for it (but I'd recommend it highly). From ???@??? Sun Aug 23 03:06:54 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id UAA07939; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 20:18:23 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 20:18:23 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35DF5E20.278A@dmans.com> Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 19:11:12 -0500 From: "Mikell D. Nelson" Reply-To: mnelson@dmans.com Organization: Boomerang Musical Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: a rang idea References: <6a304f78.35ddb972@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"O0ARy3.0.Ry.7trtr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1250 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > hello....just got my amp back from the shop, an ol fender champ, havent used > it in years. ive been going into my merantz 4 trac direct into my stereo with > my rang. today i took the line out of the rang and sent it to the champ, nice > sound. then i thought, what about this rca line out on the rang? i sent that > back into the merantz and into the stereo. well this may be old news to you > but i was quite pleased to see that the stereo played only the loop and not > the stuff i was playing over the loop, that came out of the champ only (of > course with the loop also). whenever i would stack a new line it would be > added to the stereo output. simply put, if you do not use the rca line out on > the rang hook it into something (with a silver and gold plated, oxigen free, > thermo-nucleaer shielded cable, needless to say) :) for me this was a great > find........michael Hi Michael, Howaya? We put the AUX on there to enable direct connection to a tape deck for saving ideas, but it turns out to be just the thing for a monitor out. Run a cable from the AUX out to a powered monitor for your drummer. He hears no output when there is no loop playing, but is alerted when it's time to pay attention to a loop. A few bands are currently using this setup. Over and out..tout...tout...tout...tout... Mike From ???@??? Sun Aug 23 03:07:00 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id WAA28529; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 22:32:04 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 22:32:04 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Nemoguitt@aol.com Message-ID: <9d687cd1.35df7c9c@aol.com> Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 22:21:15 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: a fun demo Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"CjbLp3.0.uq5.Rpttr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1251 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com hello.....this may be old hat but ill mention it anyway (and i hope i am not doing anything incorrect in the process). i found a fun demo at www.mixman.com kind of a loopy program........michael From ???@??? Sun Aug 23 03:07:06 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id AAA07460; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 00:49:36 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 00:49:36 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: GRAIGORY2@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 00:44:20 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: MIDI continuous controller ideas Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"_EKBM3.0.DQ1.lvvtr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1252 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com HOW EXACTLY DOES MIDI WORK? From ???@??? Sun Aug 23 14:09:33 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id KAA12037; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 10:18:54 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 10:18:54 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 08:40:29 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: Re: MIDI continuous controller ideas Resent-Message-ID: <"TouY32.0.sl2.wE2ur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1257 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com On 8/23/98 Mark Hamburg said: >MIDI controllers aren't looping devices, but they certainly are useful when >manipulating loops, so this is at least marginally on topic. > >If someone knows of a device like this, please let me know. If not, I'll >add the following to the pool of ideas for future hardware development. > >I want one continuous pedal and a set of footswitches that change what >controller it represents. > Mark, I'm not positive on this yet, but I think the Digitech PMC-10 might fill your need. I have to re-set my rack up today after a couple evenings rehearsals with FingerPaint and will explore this further. The PMC-10 can take on two controller pedals...... Patrick Now Available: FingerPaint Primary Colors: BLUE A guitar-synth looping duo of dark illbience and dreamy ambience. Shockwave audio featuring our newest release Primary Colors:Blue www.fingerpaint.net From ???@??? Sun Aug 23 14:09:21 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id IAA00060; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 08:58:00 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 08:58:00 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Sender: r_t_cummings@csi.com Message-ID: <35DFFF1A.1CA308C4@csi.com> Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 13:38:02 +0200 From: Cummings X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers Delight Subject: Re: Burning Man Loop Camp Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"x-kY41.0.hw7.a31ur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1253 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Sorry, but what the hay is the "Burning Man Loop Camp"? I'm just wondering what you flaky Californians are up to. Is it legal? I bet this has something to do with the Dreadful Great ... ;-) Is watching tv a form of Zen napping? Rob YummyBoy25@aol.com wrote: >> Hello fellow loopers, are any of you going to be at Burning Man next week? I'm >> going to have a combination Looping/Zen Napping camp, let me know if you are >> going so we can loop happily on the playa. >> See you at the burn- >> Scooter. > >nope, not going, but we have a friend who is. Laura's part of the Shiva camp and >will be going around with an electronic keyboard, speakers, mike, playing and >singing Shiva chants. say hi to Laura for us! (she's from Sebastopol, CA, a >great pianist.) > >Layne and James From ???@??? Sun Aug 23 14:09:25 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id JAA03926; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 09:04:34 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 09:04:34 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Sender: r_t_cummings@csi.com Message-ID: <35E00F8C.EDCF1F3D@csi.com> Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 14:48:12 +0200 From: Cummings X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers Delight Subject: Looping at Y2K (warning: silly content) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"V08hu1.0.xw7.d31ur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1254 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I'm not sure if this has been addressed before, but what's going to happen to our loops at year 2000? That is, if an asteroid doesn't get us first. :~( Rob "as the world goes running down, we'll loop the best of what's still around" From ???@??? Sun Aug 23 14:09:28 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id JAA06726; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 09:23:34 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 09:23:34 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35E0177D.70D4C4AA@bellsouth.net> Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 09:22:05 -0400 From: Jeff Duke X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Looping at Y2K (warning: silly content) References: <35E00F8C.EDCF1F3D@csi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"b4zjd1.0.ab1.dS1ur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1255 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I think that they convert to morse code and the internet will become a series of telegraph wires. Its the end of the world as we know it.......... Jeff Cummings wrote: > I'm not sure if this has been addressed before, but what's going to > happen to our loops at year 2000? That is, if an asteroid doesn't get us > first. :~( > > Rob > > "as the world goes running down, we'll loop the best of what's still > around" From ???@??? Sun Aug 23 14:09:31 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id JAA08629; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 09:51:37 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 09:51:37 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35E01C6F.E5F435F9@bellsouth.net> Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 09:43:11 -0400 From: Jeff Duke X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Torn acid loops References: <2.2.32.19980801133438.006d91b0@mail.dada.it> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4Rzuh.0.gy1.Pm1ur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1256 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I just got Acid. Does anybody have any tips on using it. I love it already, the mind boggles at the possibilities. thanks, Jeff Leonardo Cavallo wrote: > Hi guys > > I think this could be interesting: > > Madison, WI - Sonic Foundry (AMEX:SFO) introduces seven new loop libraries > in their Loops for ACID series. The libraries: Street Beats by poogie bell, > Signals I and II Analog Synth Dance Loops, and Funky xtreams I and II, > Syntonic Generator, and Pandora's Toolbox were created by leading sound > designers and optimized to take advantage of ACID's time stretching > capabilities. ACID is Sonic Foundry's loop-based music creation software. > The loop libraries are original and license free. > > Pandora's Toolbox > > A collection of unusal sounds from the master of loops, David Torn. If you > need to add a creepy or weird element to your project, look no further. > > ciao > leo From ???@??? Sun Aug 23 14:09:39 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA25469; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 12:20:40 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 12:20:40 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 09:16:01 -0700 (PDT) From: N To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Elliot Sharpe In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"SNCzo1.0.J66.T14ur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1258 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com So I saw him last night at the Knitting Factory. Played in Oblique Ah Blue, which steams through jazz-improv with the raucousness of Mingus's band. He did a little looping: Boomerang, Whammy, couple distortion pedals. N From ???@??? Sun Aug 23 14:09:42 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA01995; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 13:36:14 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 13:36:14 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980823172909.00721a98@mail.dada.it> X-Sender: cavallo@mail.dada.it X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 19:29:09 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Leonardo Cavallo Subject: Re: Torn acid loops Resent-Message-ID: <"DH9ez1.0.xG.G75ur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1259 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 09.43 23/08/98 -0400, you wrote: >I just got Acid. Does anybody have any tips on using it. I love it already, >the mind boggles at the possibilities. > >thanks, > >Jeff > Hi jeff what do you wanna know about ACID? It's simply incredible... I'm selling my grooves work to an italian magazine called Cubase Mag (as journalist I write for them too, instrument tests and articles about using Cubase VST). On every issue it offers a CD full of demo progs from the Net and 30-40 complete grooves (drums and all the other instruments like basses, guitars, synths, etc.). Currently I'm programming my samples and recording original material almost entirely on ACID (I have an Event Gina and a 64 GOld). Cubase VST is used only for sequencing and FX processing single tracks (there're a lot more VST plug ins than DirectX... and VST ones are a lot cheaper!!!) ciao leo >Leonardo Cavallo wrote: > >> Hi guys >> >> I think this could be interesting: >> >> Madison, WI - Sonic Foundry (AMEX:SFO) introduces seven new loop libraries >> in their Loops for ACID series. The libraries: Street Beats by poogie bell, >> Signals I and II Analog Synth Dance Loops, and Funky xtreams I and II, >> Syntonic Generator, and Pandora's Toolbox were created by leading sound >> designers and optimized to take advantage of ACID's time stretching >> capabilities. ACID is Sonic Foundry's loop-based music creation software. >> The loop libraries are original and license free. >> >> Pandora's Toolbox >> >> A collection of unusal sounds from the master of loops, David Torn. If you >> need to add a creepy or weird element to your project, look no further. >> >> ciao >> leo > > > > > From ???@??? Sun Aug 23 14:09:43 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA02325; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 13:38:20 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 13:38:20 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Marzzz@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 13:33:03 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Torn acid loops Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 189 Resent-Message-ID: <"N4l3Q1.0.gN.JA5ur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1260 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 8/23/98 8:51:14 AM, jmar@bellsouth.net writes: >I just got Acid. Does anybody have any tips on using it. I love it already, >the mind boggles at the possibilities. > Don't use it too often. Beware of bad trips! Rumor has it that it causes chromosome damage, and you may be prone to flashbacks...... From ???@??? Sun Aug 23 14:09:47 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA07990; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 14:16:10 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 14:16:10 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: "Collins" To: Subject: Re: Elliot Sharp Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 14:05:27 -0400 Message-ID: <01bdcec0$9bbc6620$071cbfa8@0QHC6SIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"bX2dI2.0.Mg1.Bh5ur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1261 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com E# is a great musician and also a serious composer. I've got a CD of nothing but him playing solo fretless guitar. It's amazing. Jeff Collins -----Original Message----- From: N To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Sunday, August 23, 1998 12:20 PM Subject: Elliot Sharpe > >So I saw him last night at the Knitting Factory. Played in Oblique Ah >Blue, which steams through jazz-improv with the raucousness of Mingus's >band. He did a little looping: Boomerang, Whammy, couple distortion >pedals. > >N > > From ???@??? Sun Aug 23 14:09:57 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA31365; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 16:26:28 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 16:26:28 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980821135705.0079f710@popmail.voicenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 12:07:04 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Stuart Fox Subject: Re: Laptop Soundcard Resent-Message-ID: <"Vyqgr1.0.GZ7.td7ur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1265 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >Can anyone recomend a good sound card for my laptop? Check out Digigram http://www.digigram.com/ for a PCMCIA audio card for Wintel laptops and soon for Mac Powerbooks. Expensive though. Stuart Fox Stuart Fox CalArts Guitar sgfox@music.calarts.edu From ???@??? Sun Aug 23 14:09:52 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA24844; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 15:33:25 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 15:33:25 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35E06D5C.F49A5414@bellsouth.net> Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 15:28:28 -0400 From: Jeff Duke X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Torn acid loops References: <2.2.32.19980823172909.00721a98@mail.dada.it> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_idiC3.0.vg5.4q6ur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1262 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com hey leo, i'v been working on soundtracks for a paintball arena, basically a mix of music and sound fx to simulate a jungle war game. Acid seems like it will make the job much easier and better, i have'nt found much it can't do but yeah more plugins.......now i can really make some sick music. jeff Leonardo Cavallo wrote: > At 09.43 23/08/98 -0400, you wrote: > >I just got Acid. Does anybody have any tips on using it. I love it already, > >the mind boggles at the possibilities. > > > >thanks, > > > >Jeff > > > > Hi jeff > > what do you wanna know about ACID? > It's simply incredible... > > I'm selling my grooves work to an italian magazine called Cubase Mag (as > journalist I write for them too, instrument tests and articles about using > Cubase VST). On every issue it offers a CD full of demo progs from the Net > and 30-40 complete grooves (drums and all the other instruments like basses, > guitars, synths, etc.). Currently I'm programming my samples and recording > original material almost entirely on ACID (I have an Event Gina and a 64 > GOld). Cubase VST is used only for sequencing and FX processing single > tracks (there're a lot more VST plug ins than DirectX... and VST ones are a > lot cheaper!!!) > > ciao > leo > > >Leonardo Cavallo wrote: > > > >> Hi guys > >> > >> I think this could be interesting: > >> > >> Madison, WI - Sonic Foundry (AMEX:SFO) introduces seven new loop libraries > >> in their Loops for ACID series. The libraries: Street Beats by poogie bell, > >> Signals I and II Analog Synth Dance Loops, and Funky xtreams I and II, > >> Syntonic Generator, and Pandora's Toolbox were created by leading sound > >> designers and optimized to take advantage of ACID's time stretching > >> capabilities. ACID is Sonic Foundry's loop-based music creation software. > >> The loop libraries are original and license free. > >> > >> Pandora's Toolbox > >> > >> A collection of unusal sounds from the master of loops, David Torn. If you > >> need to add a creepy or weird element to your project, look no further. > >> > >> ciao > >> leo > > > > > > > > > > From ???@??? Sun Aug 23 14:09:51 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA25255; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 15:34:30 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 15:34:30 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35E06DD8.F4FED96C@bellsouth.net> Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 15:30:32 -0400 From: Jeff Duke X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Torn acid loops References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gycBi3.0.Pn5.2s6ur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1263 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com and i only have 3 or 4 braincells left and two of them are flickering. whoa, did you see that? never mind Marzzz@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 8/23/98 8:51:14 AM, jmar@bellsouth.net writes: > > >I just got Acid. Does anybody have any tips on using it. I love it already, > >the mind boggles at the possibilities. > > > > Don't use it too often. Beware of bad trips! Rumor has it that it causes > chromosome damage, and you may be prone to flashbacks...... From ???@??? Sun Aug 23 14:09:56 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA27806; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 15:56:48 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 15:56:48 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Crossedout@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 15:43:54 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: MIDI continuous controller ideas Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"zFpit.0.QS6.q47ur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1264 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 8/22/98 11:49:48 PM Central Daylight Time, GRAIGORY2@aol.com writes: << HOW EXACTLY DOES MIDI WORK? >> that's a big question for an e-mail reply... why don't you try web searching the terms "midi" and "faq" [Frequently Asked Questions] in the same search, and see what you find? I know there are sites that have the entire midi specs posted... I just can't remember where. try the Syth Fool site and his links (www.synthfool.com) or Harmony Central (www.harmony-central.com) and see where that leads? For a really good, non-engineer overview of what midi is and does (and doesn't!!), go to your library and look for a book called Rockschool, vol 2. It was a companion book to a PBS series several years ago, and it has some great info about the basics of midi and computer / music interfaces. hope this helps. - Bill Crossedout@aol.com From ???@??? Sun Aug 23 17:39:36 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA15992; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 19:48:42 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 19:48:42 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: ENAT21213@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 19:40:55 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: 2nd loopers cd? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"bbEjQ3.0.Ai3.4ZAur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1266 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com anyone out there have any idea when this sucker may materialize? From ???@??? Sun Aug 23 19:02:06 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id UAA18998; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 20:21:30 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 20:21:30 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <001501bdcef4$83092a80$64409ad1@default> From: "Bill Cummings" To: Subject: Re: Torn acid loops Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 20:16:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2110.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"k2cqq3.0.mW4.z3Bur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1267 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hey Leo, Is there anywhere I can read some of your articles on Cubase VST (in english*). I've been trying to get my head around this program for quite some time (finally making a little progress). I also use Acid, and would be thrilled to find some additional tips for that too. (*I'm assuming the magazine you write for is published in Italian). Bill Cummings drums@myself.com -----Original Message----- From: Leonardo Cavallo To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Sunday, August 23, 1998 1:44 PM Subject: Re: Torn acid loops >At 09.43 23/08/98 -0400, you wrote: >>I just got Acid. Does anybody have any tips on using it. I love it already, >>the mind boggles at the possibilities. >> >>thanks, >> >>Jeff >> > >Hi jeff > >what do you wanna know about ACID? >It's simply incredible... > >I'm selling my grooves work to an italian magazine called Cubase Mag (as >journalist I write for them too, instrument tests and articles about using >Cubase VST). On every issue it offers a CD full of demo progs from the Net >and 30-40 complete grooves (drums and all the other instruments like basses, >guitars, synths, etc.). Currently I'm programming my samples and recording >original material almost entirely on ACID (I have an Event Gina and a 64 >GOld). Cubase VST is used only for sequencing and FX processing single >tracks (there're a lot more VST plug ins than DirectX... and VST ones are a >lot cheaper!!!) > > >ciao >leo > >>Leonardo Cavallo wrote: >> >>> Hi guys >>> >>> I think this could be interesting: >>> >>> Madison, WI - Sonic Foundry (AMEX:SFO) introduces seven new loop libraries >>> in their Loops for ACID series. The libraries: Street Beats by poogie bell, >>> Signals I and II Analog Synth Dance Loops, and Funky xtreams I and II, >>> Syntonic Generator, and Pandora's Toolbox were created by leading sound >>> designers and optimized to take advantage of ACID's time stretching >>> capabilities. ACID is Sonic Foundry's loop-based music creation software. >>> The loop libraries are original and license free. >>> >>> Pandora's Toolbox >>> >>> A collection of unusal sounds from the master of loops, David Torn. If you >>> need to add a creepy or weird element to your project, look no further. >>> >>> ciao >>> leo >> >> >> >> >> From ???@??? Mon Aug 24 09:43:22 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id WAA28263; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 22:01:11 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 22:01:11 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980824115419.006a9340@192.168.0.1> X-Sender: studio#mail.toysatellite.com.au@192.168.0.1 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 11:57:42 +1000 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Toy Satellite Subject: Re: Torn acid loops Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"cA1zN.0.wi6.HXCur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1268 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >what do you wanna know about ACID? >It's simply incredible... That's for sure. We're doing an entire album with it as we speak... I use it to organise my samples and loops into individual tracks. Some times using Making Waves to create clusters of samples, exporting them as single wav files then dropping them into ACID for additional tweaking. All mixes are done with VST, but I try and get near complete tracks tweaked in ACID as often as possible. One of the frustrating VST features is the inability to mix MIDI and VST/Audio tracks at the same time, but using a combo of Making Waves and ACID to organise both samples and MIDI tracks into wave files overcomes some of these niggling obstacles. andrew From ???@??? Mon Aug 24 09:43:25 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id WAA28304; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 22:01:38 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 22:01:38 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980824115729.00758008@192.168.0.1> X-Sender: studio#mail.toysatellite.com.au@192.168.0.1 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 11:57:45 +1000 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Toy Satellite Subject: Re: Torn acid loops Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"u__lt1.0.Hj6.JXCur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1269 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 06:47 PM 8/1/98 -0400, you wrote: >Does this mean D.T. is becoming more comercially accepted or Sounic Foundry >is more insightful or both? I just find it amusing how "fads" eb and flow. i reckon s.foundry have taken note of all the cool shareware and freeware apps around, munged it all together, thrown some money and dev. teams at it and made a composite app that is probably the most intuative i've yet to use. it could be somewhat cheaper though... andrew From ???@??? Mon Aug 24 09:43:25 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id WAA31026; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 22:28:20 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 22:28:20 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35E0CF55.E3DD2165@musician.org> Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 19:26:33 -0700 From: eric potter Reply-To: eric@musician.org Organization: Hog Wild Music and Sound FX X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: a rang idea (for Mikell only!) References: <6a304f78.35ddb972@aol.com> <35DF5E20.278A@dmans.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Z6DVm.0.tT7.mxCur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1270 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Mikell D. Nelson wrote: > ...Over and out..tout...tout...tout...tout... > > Mike Hey Mike, I've tried emailing you several times the last several weeks. I always get returns - undeliverable. Here's my reply to your last message (sorry, everybody): I tried sending this a while back but was returned: > Mikell D. Nelson wrote: > > > Hello Eric > > Thanks for the compliments. Yeah, your Rang is about 2 1/2 years old. > > We are currently working on a software/hardware upgrade that will > > involve swapping out one or two chips to get some new very powerful > > features. One of these is the ability to choose whether the STACK button > > is momentary or latching. Send me your address and I'll mail you a > > complete description when it's ready; should be 2-3 months off. > > > > Mike Nelson > > > > Boomerang Musical Products > > PO Box 541595 > > Dallas, TX 75354-1595 > > > > Tel 800-530-4699 (outside USA, 214-340-6913) > > Fax 214-343-1038 > > email mnelson@dmans.com > > web page http://www.boomerangmusic.com That sounds beautiful, man! Every session I've used the Rang I've cooked up something inspiring, even after five years of looping already a la Jam Man. By the time I'm done honeymooning with her, you'll have that update ready and the romance will continue - good timing! You can send materials to: eric potter 2035 avon st. los angeles ca 90026 From ???@??? Mon Aug 24 09:43:52 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id XAA03066; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 23:20:22 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 23:20:22 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <000801bdcf0c$90b85a80$8b0a4382@hovard> From: "Thomas Whni" To: Subject: new Squarepusher album?? Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 05:09:09 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"ckoA41.0.YZ.XeDur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1271 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Yowza , I read on a web-page that Squarepusher ha released a new CD called "Hard normal daddy". Can anyone confirm? Yours , Thomas Feel free to check out my web-site: http://www.geocities.com/Eureka/Promenade/1628/ From ???@??? Mon Aug 24 09:43:53 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id XAA04846; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 23:38:54 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 23:38:54 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199808240334.UAA25660@stork.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 20:39:25 -0700 Subject: Re: 2nd loopers cd? From: "Finley Sound Design" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_s7Xx2.0.w51.bzDur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1272 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >anyone out there have any idea when this sucker may materialize? Within a month the finished product should be in my hands. Shortly after that contributors will have their copies. Matt __________________________________ Matthew F. McCabe Finley Sound Design http://www.finleysound.com From ???@??? Mon Aug 24 09:43:55 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id XAA06245; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 23:51:12 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 23:51:12 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35E0E50E.53A9@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 20:59:10 -0700 From: Andre LaFosse Reply-To: altruist@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: new Squarepusher album?? References: <000801bdcf0c$90b85a80$8b0a4382@hovard> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"o_Fl33.0.yO1.m8Eur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1273 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com =?iso-8859-1?Q?Thomas_W=F8hni?= wrote: > > Yowza , I read on a web-page that Squarepusher ha released a new CD called > "Hard normal daddy". Can anyone confirm? He does indeed have an album called Hard Normal Daddy, though it came out over a year ago. Since then he also put out the Big Loada EP and the Burningn'n Tree compilation of early (pre-Feed Me Wierd Things) music. Apparently his newest album, which is slated for release soon, has no sampling or programming; it's all live and all played by Jenkinson himself. It's slated to be released domestically (along with Big Loada) on Nothing/Interscope. --Andre From ???@??? Mon Aug 24 09:44:49 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id FAA08602; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 05:13:59 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 05:13:59 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980824085903.006e7e3c@mail.dada.it> X-Sender: cavallo@mail.dada.it X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 10:59:03 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Leonardo Cavallo Subject: Re: Torn acid loops Resent-Message-ID: <"rqjnu1.0.qo1.6lIur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1274 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 20.16 23/08/98 -0400, you wrote: >Hey Leo, > >Is there anywhere I can read some of your articles on Cubase VST (in >english*). I've been trying to get my head around this program for quite >some time (finally making a little progress). I also use Acid, and would be >thrilled to find some additional tips for that too. (*I'm assuming the >magazine you write for is published in Italian). > >Bill Cummings >drums@myself.com > Hi bill The mag is all published in italian, so I think it's impossible to read my articles (and my English is not so good to translate for you ....;) ). About Acid: did anyone experience program crashes trying to open old acid files? ciao leo >-----Original Message----- >From: Leonardo Cavallo >To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >Date: Sunday, August 23, 1998 1:44 PM >Subject: Re: Torn acid loops > > >>At 09.43 23/08/98 -0400, you wrote: >>>I just got Acid. Does anybody have any tips on using it. I love it >already, >>>the mind boggles at the possibilities. >>> >>>thanks, >>> >>>Jeff >>> >> >>Hi jeff >> >>what do you wanna know about ACID? >>It's simply incredible... >> >>I'm selling my grooves work to an italian magazine called Cubase Mag (as >>journalist I write for them too, instrument tests and articles about using >>Cubase VST). On every issue it offers a CD full of demo progs from the Net >>and 30-40 complete grooves (drums and all the other instruments like >basses, >>guitars, synths, etc.). Currently I'm programming my samples and recording >>original material almost entirely on ACID (I have an Event Gina and a 64 >>GOld). Cubase VST is used only for sequencing and FX processing single >>tracks (there're a lot more VST plug ins than DirectX... and VST ones are a >>lot cheaper!!!) >> >> >>ciao >>leo >> >>>Leonardo Cavallo wrote: >>> >>>> Hi guys >>>> >>>> I think this could be interesting: >>>> >>>> Madison, WI - Sonic Foundry (AMEX:SFO) introduces seven new loop >libraries >>>> in their Loops for ACID series. The libraries: Street Beats by poogie >bell, >>>> Signals I and II Analog Synth Dance Loops, and Funky xtreams I and II, >>>> Syntonic Generator, and Pandora's Toolbox were created by leading sound >>>> designers and optimized to take advantage of ACID's time stretching >>>> capabilities. ACID is Sonic Foundry's loop-based music creation >software. >>>> The loop libraries are original and license free. >>>> >>>> Pandora's Toolbox >>>> >>>> A collection of unusal sounds from the master of loops, David Torn. If >you >>>> need to add a creepy or weird element to your project, look no further. >>>> >>>> ciao >>>> leo >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > > From ???@??? Mon Aug 24 09:44:52 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id FAA12725; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 05:53:40 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 05:53:40 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <002501bdcf42$6b27bf00$0d01a8c0@Remote> From: "Steve Lauder" To: Subject: Sonic Foundry - Acid Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 10:34:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"_RhCz1.0.Yv2.TNJur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1275 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I know its been on the list before, but could someone tell me where I can download a demo/shareware/evaluation copy of Acid? Thanx Steve Lauder P.S. graigory@aol.com - did you get your AWE64 working with your CD-ROM? From ???@??? Mon Aug 24 10:29:11 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA24867; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 12:31:26 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 12:31:26 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 09:12:12 -0700 Message-ID: <00116027.CE21407@wj.com> From: Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle) Subject: Re[2]: MIDI continuous controller ideas To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"-gsxF2.0.3b5.U8Pur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1276 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com The PMC-10 definitely does this... You have 10 footswitches available in any single bank. Each patch (footswitch) allows 2 ExPeds to be assigned. Each ExPed can manipulate 3 controllers and can be reverse scaled and truncated etc. Very powerful for tweaking multiple parameters via one pedal or multiple dsp's via one pedal. One bank of these sort of assignments adds up to around 60 possible controller assignments! You can also send a string of preset controller values with MIDI string A or MIDI string B. This is great for instant changes or initializing a dsp. I wish someone would update this controller to a more roadworthy box! -Miko ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: MIDI continuous controller ideas Author: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) at INTERNET Date: 8/23/98 8:40 AM On 8/23/98 Mark Hamburg said: >MIDI controllers aren't looping devices, but they certainly are useful when >manipulating loops, so this is at least marginally on topic. > >If someone knows of a device like this, please let me know. If not, I'll >add the following to the pool of ideas for future hardware development. > >I want one continuous pedal and a set of footswitches that change what >controller it represents. > Mark, I'm not positive on this yet, but I think the Digitech PMC-10 might fill your need. I have to re-set my rack up today after a couple evenings rehearsals with FingerPaint and will explore this further. The PMC-10 can take on two controller pedals...... Patrick Now Available: FingerPaint Primary Colors: BLUE A guitar-synth looping duo of dark illbience and dreamy ambience. Shockwave audio featuring our newest release Primary Colors:Blue www.fingerpaint.net From ???@??? Mon Aug 24 10:29:13 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA26860; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 12:42:37 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 12:42:37 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: GRAIGORY2@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 12:25:41 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Sonic Foundry - Acid Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"ZmbbK3.0.9u5.1HPur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1277 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I bought my AWE 64 for $100, and then yesterday found it for $59.99... so you know I'm getting my loot back... but I got my CD Rom working again From ???@??? Mon Aug 24 10:29:14 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA29077; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 12:55:13 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 12:55:13 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <000a01bdcf7d$236316c0$59094382@hovard> From: "Thomas Whni" To: , Subject: I gave in to the ACID hype! Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 18:34:55 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"YgN5k.0.hL6.mRPur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1278 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hey everyone , I`m sitting here with a demo version of Acid , trying to figure out what to make of it. I have run into some difficulties wich I couldn`t find a solution for in the manual. I gather ACID is meant to make it easier to match different tempos on loops. Lets say I have a drumloop at 150 bpm and want it at 130 bpm. How do I do this? Is it done with the markers , putting them in front of every beat/subdivision? Or does the loop`s length have to be "pre-cut" (trimmed down so it`s exactly 2 bars long....or 4 or 1 etc...) I think the program looks very interesting but I simply couldn`t perform this described operation....... Can anyone help me on this? Yours , Thomas W Feel free to check out my web-site: http://www.geocities.com/Eureka/Promenade/1628/ From ???@??? Mon Aug 24 20:29:57 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA00203; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 16:24:41 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 16:24:41 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35E1C9EA.E312CE91@bellsouth.net> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 16:15:38 -0400 From: Jeff Duke X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: I gave in to the ACID hype! References: <000a01bdcf7d$236316c0$59094382@hovard> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vEAhX2.0.jb7.EcSur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1279 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I just checked and when you click on a wav in the explorer box it tells what the bpm is for it but when you drag it into the track view it will play at whatever you have the speed setting on in acid. I took an 80 and a 140 bpm drum wav and they both matched up to any setting I moved the acid speed slider to. Hope this helps. Jeff Thomas Whni wrote: > Hey everyone , I`m sitting here with a demo version of Acid , trying to figure out what to make of it. I have run into some difficulties wich I couldn`t find a solution for in the manual. > I gather ACID is meant to make it easier to match different tempos on loops. > > Lets say I have a drumloop at 150 bpm and want it at 130 bpm. How do I do this? Is it done with the markers , putting them in front of every beat/subdivision? Or does the loop`s length have to be "pre-cut" (trimmed down so it`s exactly 2 bars long....or 4 or 1 etc...) > > I think the program looks very interesting but I simply couldn`t perform this described operation....... > > Can anyone help me on this? > > Yours , Thomas W > > Feel free to check out my web-site: > http://www.geocities.com/Eureka/Promenade/1628/ From ???@??? Mon Aug 24 20:29:59 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA02079; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 16:32:11 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 16:32:11 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35E1CA1B.D3CAC85@bellsouth.net> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 16:16:28 -0400 From: Jeff Duke X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Sonic Foundry - Acid References: <002501bdcf42$6b27bf00$0d01a8c0@Remote> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VP_XO3.0.Zd7.wcSur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1280 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com www.sfoundry.com Jeff Steve Lauder wrote: > I know its been on the list before, but could someone tell me where I can > download a demo/shareware/evaluation copy of Acid? > > Thanx > > Steve Lauder > > P.S. graigory@aol.com - did you get your AWE64 working with your CD-ROM? From ???@??? Mon Aug 24 20:30:01 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA07051; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 16:59:29 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 16:59:29 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: The Unit Circle Message-Id: <199808242042.QAA03166@keys.com> Subject: Re: Laptop Soundcard To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 16:42:25 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980821174358.0079ecf0@popmail.voicenet.com> from "Theatre of the Mind" at Aug 21, 98 05:43:58 pm Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"IKK1r1.0.L11.02Tur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1281 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > I don't leave home without my power conditioner. It's the Furman PL-PLUS. > Smart. > I'm not sure what a break out box is. Is there a way to access I/O through > serial or parallel ports?. I thought I might be able to get a better sound > card for my laptop. There must be a way to solve this problem. I did some > searching and couldn't find much for laptops. I must not be looking in the > right places. > In this case a breakout box is a box that would do the D/A conversion away from the computer, connected to the computer by a wire. Kevin From ???@??? Mon Aug 24 20:30:07 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA12892; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 17:34:30 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 17:34:30 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980824212243.006ed398@mail.dada.it> X-Sender: cavallo@mail.dada.it X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 23:22:43 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Leonardo Cavallo Subject: Re: I gave in to the ACID hype! Resent-Message-ID: <"qoM151.0.On2.HeTur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1282 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 18.34 24/08/98 +0200, you wrote: >Hey everyone , I`m sitting here with a demo version of Acid , trying to figure out what to make of it. I have run into some difficulties wich I couldn`t find a solution for in the manual. >I gather ACID is meant to make it easier to match different tempos on loops. > >Lets say I have a drumloop at 150 bpm and want it at 130 bpm. How do I do this? Is it done with the markers , putting them in front of every beat/subdivision? Or does the loop`s length have to be "pre-cut" (trimmed down so it`s exactly 2 bars long....or 4 or 1 etc...) > >I think the program looks very interesting but I simply couldn`t perform this described operation....... > >Can anyone help me on this? > >Yours , Thomas W > > > ciao Thomas simply use the tempo bpm slider on the main screen.... ciao leo > >Feel free to check out my web-site: >http://www.geocities.com/Eureka/Promenade/1628/ > > > > From ???@??? Mon Aug 24 20:30:11 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id SAA23016; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 18:29:51 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 18:29:51 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Crossedout@aol.com Message-ID: <82402657.35e1e6ac@aol.com> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 18:18:19 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: new Squarepusher album?? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"uEgB73.0.xB5.qRUur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1283 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hard Normal Daddy is not the newest - there's an ep out called "Big Loada" that is already rather old (almost a year? maybe more? can't remember when I picked it up). But if you don't have it, by all means, go get it. - Bill Crossedout@aol.com From ???@??? Mon Aug 24 20:30:16 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id SAA25099; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 18:43:45 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 18:43:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980824183231.007a4c50@popmail.voicenet.com> X-Sender: ngc1275@popmail.voicenet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 18:32:31 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Theatre of the Mind Subject: Re: Laptop Soundcard In-Reply-To: <199808242042.QAA03166@keys.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19980821174358.0079ecf0@popmail.voicenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"psnWI1.0.lk5.aeUur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1284 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Thanx Kevin, Do you know who supplies a break out box for a laptop? I'm in research mode now...checking out all my options. All this laptop stuff is new to me. Mark of b. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ At 04:42 PM 8/24/98 -0400, you wrote: >> I don't leave home without my power conditioner. It's the Furman PL-PLUS. >> > Smart. > >> I'm not sure what a break out box is. Is there a way to access I/O through >> serial or parallel ports?. I thought I might be able to get a better sound >> card for my laptop. There must be a way to solve this problem. I did some >> searching and couldn't find much for laptops. I must not be looking in the >> right places. >> > In this case a breakout box is a box that would do the D/A >conversion away from the computer, connected to the computer by a wire. > > Kevin > > > From ???@??? Mon Aug 24 20:30:21 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id UAA08379; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 20:13:37 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 20:13:37 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 17:04:41 -0700 (MST) From: Dan Howarth To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: FS: RDS4000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"gt_Cc2.0.sk1.o-Vur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1285 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com for sale - Digitech RDS4000 Rack Mount Digital Delay system 4 seconds delay/loop/sample plus chorus/flange/modulation great condition. three button Roland footswitch (for loop on/off and bypass) and manual included. $150 plus shipping, please email: howarth@u.arizona.edu thanks. From ???@??? Mon Aug 24 20:30:23 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id VAA15728; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 21:04:12 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 21:04:12 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980825103552.006aa21c@192.168.0.1> X-Sender: studio#mail.toysatellite.com.au@192.168.0.1 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 11:00:52 +1000 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Toy Satellite Subject: Re: Sonic Foundry - Acid Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"1bJey2.0.Rg3.5oWur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1286 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 12:25 24/08/98 EDT, you wrote: >I bought my AWE 64 for $100, and then yesterday found it for $59.99... so you >know I'm getting my loot back... but I got my CD Rom working again make sure the cheaper version comes with 4mgs of ROM. some earlier versions of the 64 are upgrades and only support 2mgs. and they sound like crap too... i should know :( andrew From ???@??? Tue Aug 25 10:07:39 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id XAA02270; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 23:37:10 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 23:37:10 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: GRAIGORY2@aol.com Message-ID: <3aefc179.35e22ee2@aol.com> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 23:26:24 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Sonic Foundry - Acid Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"NBPxf2.0.LJ.TyYur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1287 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com good thing you told me... because the on i have now has only 1meg on it From ???@??? Tue Aug 25 10:09:06 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id FAA04711; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 05:05:28 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 05:05:28 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35E27CD1.5AA55977@musician.org> Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 01:59:02 -0700 From: eric potter Reply-To: eric@musician.org Organization: Hog Wild Music and Sound FX X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Burning Man Loop Camp References: <35DFFF1A.1CA308C4@csi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3jvip3.0.dz.dndur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1288 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Cummings wrote: > Sorry, but what the hay is the "Burning Man Loop Camp"? I'm just > wondering what you flaky Californians are up to. Is it legal? I bet this > has something to do with the Dreadful Great ... ;-) > Not very Dead-related at all, actually, though there is a Bay-area connection. It's really too much to explain but I suggest you go look at: www.burningman.com I'm hoping to go, I've got pals egging me to go along and help build the Lunar Umbilica. If I do, I'll bring a modest loop rig. I need to work a day or so between now and then to pay my way, but if there's no work that week, I might as well go! -eric From ???@??? Tue Aug 25 19:01:25 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA25313; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 19:20:28 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 19:20:28 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35E3001D.C92A580F@nyfac.com> Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 19:19:09 +0100 From: "trevor bajus, digital surgeon" Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com Organization: New York Film and Animation Inc / 3DV X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: On Talks with Clubowners... References: <00a301bdd07a$31f577c0$93f0ffd0@artmusic.gte> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ZWyZw2.0.C06.zLqur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1292 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com future perfect wrote: > 'Showcase' may not mean its a bad place to play, but almost always means > that you won't get paid- which to *me* means 'The worst kind of place to > play'...hehe. > Dave Eichenberger I was under the impression that a showcase meant bands of relatively little recognition, ie, no one will be there but your friends. trev From ???@??? Tue Aug 25 19:01:09 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id SAA13553; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 18:07:45 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 18:07:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: On Talks with Clubowners... Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:57:31 -0700 Message-ID: <000c01bdd073$5c3474c0$7ae9fea9@stepheng> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <35E27CD1.5AA55977@musician.org> Resent-Message-ID: <"brIl91.0.xd2.uDpur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1289 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hi folks, I've a question for the more seasoned of you amongst us, who are perhaps more used to dealing with clubowners (including coffee houses and the like)... Is it just me, or is the word "showcase" being used by the owner to describe his venue often a warning that This Might Be A Bad Place To Play? And, is it overused? Stephen Goodman - It's... The Loop Of The Week (Persis Khambatta)! EarthLight Studios - http://www.earthlight.net/Studios From ???@??? Tue Aug 25 19:01:18 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id SAA18545; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 18:32:15 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 18:32:15 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 15:20:27 -0700 Message-ID: <001173F7.CE21407@wj.com> From: Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle) Subject: Re: On Talks with Clubowners... To: , "Stephen P. Goodman" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"5gT0h3.0.j94.Cdpur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1290 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >Stephen P. Goodman wrote: >Is it just me, or is the word "showcase" being used by the owner to describe >his venue often a warning that This Might Be A Bad Place To Play? And, is >it overused? It would depend just what they're actually showcasing! I'd say it would be more of a sign of pride in their particular venue... although they might also be very finnicky about just what type of music lives up to the *status* of their club. It was interesting to read some of Fripp's talk about the G3 tour... His statements about "nearly having to pay to play his soundscape stuff" (in England?) versus being able to play for sold out crowds and be paid well for it. -m From ???@??? Tue Aug 25 19:01:21 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id SAA20902; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 18:49:26 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 18:49:26 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <00a301bdd07a$31f577c0$93f0ffd0@artmusic.gte> From: "future perfect" To: Subject: Re: On Talks with Clubowners... Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 18:46:26 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"Zf6MZ.0.Wx4.-upur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1291 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com 'Showcase' may not mean its a bad place to play, but almost always means that you won't get paid- which to *me* means 'The worst kind of place to play'...hehe. Dave Eichenberger ********************************************************************* 'Future Perfect' - art music - visit our website at: http://home1.gte.net/artmusic/ -----Original Message----- From: Stephen P. Goodman To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Tuesday, August 25, 1998 6:19 PM Subject: On Talks with Clubowners... Hi folks, I've a question for the more seasoned of you amongst us, who are perhaps more used to dealing with clubowners (including coffee houses and the like)... Is it just me, or is the word "showcase" being used by the owner to describe his venue often a warning that This Might Be A Bad Place To Play? And, is it overused? Stephen Goodman - It's... The Loop Of The Week (Persis Khambatta)! EarthLight Studios - http://www.earthlight.net/Studios From ???@??? Tue Aug 25 19:01:29 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id UAA31359; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 20:02:54 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 20:02:54 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35E351D5.1401@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 17:07:50 -0700 From: Andre LaFosse Reply-To: altruist@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: On Talks with Clubowners... References: <000c01bdd073$5c3474c0$7ae9fea9@stepheng> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"o9bz4.0.PR7.Jyqur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1293 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Stephen P. Goodman wrote: > > Hi folks, > > I've a question for the more seasoned of you amongst us, who are perhaps > more used to dealing with clubowners (including coffee houses and the > like)... > > Is it just me, or is the word "showcase" being used by the owner to describe > his venue often a warning that This Might Be A Bad Place To Play? And, is > it overused? "Showcasing" as I understand the term here in LA basically refers to a band headlining its own gig, often without supporting acts, and frequently with the intent of literally showcasing its wares before A&R people from a record label. Somebody describing their own venue as a showcase gig is likely stating that it's a place where up-and-coming bands aspire to headline, largely for the prestige and/or publicity angle therein. Most of these sorts of high-profile venues are probably best to consider after an act has had a chance to build up a certain sizable following; it's still not uncommon for showcase-style venues to make a group buy a certain number of tickets for their own gig from the club, which the band then has to sell itself in order to stand any chance of profiting (or breaking even) from the gig. This is something of a holdover from the "pay-to-play" days at the cheese-metal peak in the late '80s, when there were so many hair bands dying to get signed that bigger clubs would make groups pay them for the chance to gig at "big" venues and possibly get seen/heard by A&R reps. At the very least, the sheer number of acts struggling for attention in this town more or less necessitates that you prove to the club owner that you can bring in a certain number of people in order to ensure a profitable evening for the bar. Otherwise, you might be able to get some sort of slot on a Monday or Tuesday night along with two or three other acts, with no pay. The other alterative is looking for gigs where you're providing background music; you're not the center of attention, but you're not expected to necessarily draw people in, and if it's any sort of reasonable arrangement, you'll be paid a flat rate for your services. (Be wary of places that expect you to provide background music *and* collect payment by drawing people in specifically for the chance to see you.) It's not realistic to expect payment from a coffeehouse gig, unless you want to set out a tip jar or something along those lines. I've never heard of a coffee shop charging cover for an act, and I'd be pretty reluctant to go along with it as a customer. The problem with trying to get paying gigs for playing ambient electronic material is that it's sort of inherently background-oriented music, with little in the way of a performance aspect in the traditional sense of the word. So a club/bar/coffehouse owner might be hard pressed to come up with a good reason why they should pay someone for doing that when they can just as easily pop a CD by a world-famous ambient artist into the house PA for free... Anyway, good luck. --Andre From ???@??? Tue Aug 25 19:01:35 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id VAA07731; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 21:07:52 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 21:07:52 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <00f101bdd08d$812825a0$93f0ffd0@artmusic.gte> From: "future perfect" To: Subject: Re: On Talks with Clubowners... Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 21:04:39 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"h4kB41.0.4i1.ewrur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1294 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Whoah! You'd be suprised how many coffeehouses *do* pay fo you to play 'ambient, electronic' stuff. I get booked around here (and get paid) simply because it's not typical coffeehouse music. Hell, I supported an East Coast US tour playing only coffeehouses. And no tip jar is ever involved. Give it a try. Dave Eichenberger ********************************************************************* 'Future Perfect' - art music - visit our website at: http://home1.gte.net/artmusic/ >It's not realistic to expect payment from a coffeehouse gig, unless you >want to set out a tip jar or something along those lines. I've never >heard of a coffee shop charging cover for an act, and I'd be pretty >reluctant to go along with it as a customer. > >The problem with trying to get paying gigs for playing ambient >electronic material is that it's sort of inherently background-oriented >music, with little in the way of a performance aspect in the traditional >sense of the word. So a club/bar/coffehouse owner might be hard pressed >to come up with a good reason why they should pay someone for doing that >when they can just as easily pop a CD by a world-famous ambient artist >into the house PA for free... > >Anyway, good luck. > >--Andre > From ???@??? Tue Aug 25 19:01:36 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id VAA09576; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 21:18:32 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 21:18:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: GRAIGORY2@aol.com Message-ID: <40b2adc7.35e36037@aol.com> Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 21:09:09 EDT To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Fwd: FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part0_904093750_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"RzFK7.0.512.m1sur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1295 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Content-ID: <0_904093750@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Return-Path: Received: from relay28.mx.aol.com (relay28.mail.aol.com [172.31.109.28]) by air16.mail.aol.com (v49.4) with SMTP; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 16:18:48 -0400 Received: from pobox.eline.com (pobox.eline.com [206.169.45.92]) by relay28.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id QAA23655; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 16:18:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by pobox.eline.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA10516 for daveyd-announce-outgoing; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 10:35:15 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: pobox.eline.com: majordom set sender to owner-daveyd-announce@daveyd.com using -f Received: from tilda.eline.com (tilda.eline.com [206.169.45.69]) by pobox.eline.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA10513 for ; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 10:35:13 -0700 Received: from mail1.sirius.com (mail1.sirius.com [205.134.253.131]) by tilda.eline.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA24368 for ; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 08:55:15 -0700 Received: from [205.134.240.197] (ppp-asfm08--183.sirius.net [205.134.241.183]) by mail1.sirius.com (8.8.8/Sirius-8.8.7-97.08.12) with ESMTP id KAA27741; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 10:01:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 10:01:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: kingdave@pop.sirius.com Message-Id: To: daveyd-announce@daveyd.com From: Davey D Subject: FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN Sender: owner-daveyd-announce@daveyd.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: kingdave@sirius.com X-URL: http://www.daveyd.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit IN THIS ISSUE: *The RIAA Is Cracking Down Even More by Rock N Roll Confidential *Events And Announcements *Feedback on KRS-One vs Canibus ______________________________________________________________ I received this article the other day from Lee Ballinger and the good folks over at Rock N Roll Confidential.. I thought it was something we should know about especially since I had let y'all know about the recent clamp downs on mixtapes and other forms of 'illegally recorded' music.. The RIAA really is on a mission.. This new tactic is kinda scary because it's really gonna hurt the underground hip hop artists who have been doing their thing without clearing samples.. One of the things currently stiffling hip hop's creativity is the fact that a producer can no longer sample 4 or 5 songs and come up with a unique sound for us to groove to... Publishing companies which usually own the rights to a lot these songs have been aggressively going after producers who sample and don't get things cleared.. At the same time these publishing companies demand tremendous amounts of money and royalty points to songs containing samples from their music catalogue. Hence anartist can sample 2 or 3 songs and will actually owe all the publishing houses 200% plus some upfront money for the song.. It's no wonder so many artists have resorted to just sampling one familiar loop.. It's gotten way too expensive to do otherwise.. Sampling has gotten to be big business for the record industry where you now have record companies like Tuff City in NY where they buy the rights to all sorts of old school break beats and wait for some artist to sample it and then they go after them and collect all sorts of money.. If artists refuses to pay they can find their records being taken off shelves in a court injunction.. Publishing houses have hired young record hounds who do nothing but listen to new material and report back to their bosses songs that have been sampled from their record catalogue.. These young kids collect a bounty for each unauthorized sample they discover.. For a while independent artists on small regional labels could get away with releasing songs with uncleared samples.. It was hard to police them..So now the RIAA is going after the manufacturing plants and making them liable.. This will result in tape and CD manufatururs putting pressure on artists.. Read below and see what I'm talking about.. Davey D kingdave@sirius.com The career of recording artists Negativland may be over. Reprinted from Rock N Roll Confidential.. Negativland's CD plant has told the group that it will no longer manufacture their CDs, and Negativland has so far been unable to find another factory willing to do so. The reason, according to Mark Hosler of Negativland, is the RIAA's recent guidelines to compact disk pressing plants, which inform the plants that they risk huge lawsuits if they manufacture CDs with even one uncleared sample. Negativland uses uncleared samples extensively, and consider this to be Fair Use under the 1976 U.S. Copyright Act. Still, the group has had to establish their own label because other labels consider Negativland music too legally risky to distribute. With this new offensive by the RIAA, CD factories feel they cannot afford the risk either, which effectively silences Negativland. Many bands besides Negativland--including Beck, Beastie Boys, Public Enemy, Nine Inch Nails, etc.--routinely use uncleared samples, but only Negativland, Illegal Art (which with RTMARK's help produced Deconstructing Beck), and a few others do so openly, and as an essential part of their esthetic. According to Ray Thomas of RTMARK, whose Intellectual Property mutual fund (http://rtmark.com/projectlist.html) is managed by Negativland, "The industry saw how much bad publicity Geffen and BMG suffered for trying--unsuccessfully--to clamp down on Deconstructing Beck. They realized public opinion would not let them get away with such high-handed tactics, so now they're cleverly targeting production, which has a much lower public profile than distribution, but is even more important. The RIAA is putting CD manufacturers in the position of policing what is and is not acceptable art, and is thus very effectively practicing censorship." The problem is a fundamental misunderstanding of copyright law, according to Thomas. "The music industry says copyright law protects artists. But copyright law as applied to samples serves only to protect corporate money. As the recording industry forces this issue to a head, we hope that the facts will finally become clear, and that the groundwork will be laid to change copyright law so that it benefits artists and consumers, not corporations and capital." Negativland's full press release, including e-mail addresses of many RIAA employees, as well as a response by Hilary Rosen, President and CEO of the RIAA, can be found at http://www.negativland.com/riaa/index.html. RTMARK was established in 1991 to further anti-corporate activism, in some cases by channelling funds from donors to workers for sabotage of corporate products. Recent and upcoming acts of RTMARK-aided subversion are documented on RTMARK's web site, http://rtmark.com/. Hope everyone starts becoming active..Big Brother is making moves on Hip Hop Hit me back with your feedback at kingdave@sirius.com ______________________________________________________________________ EVENTS AND ANNOUNCEMENTS Thembisa MShaka who does the new column called Monthly Flow in Blaze Magazine [ check pg 70] wanted me to lace everyone who lives in the NYC Metropoltan area with this information.. The United African Movement hosts forums with prominent Afrcan American speakers each Wednesday in Harlem at the Dempsey Center, 127 W. 127th St, between Adam Clayton Powell and Malcolm X Blvds. Cost: FREE! I said free, zero, zip, nada-just your train fare. So for anyone living in or visiting NYC, keep this in mind. The presentations happen at 8PM with doors opening at 7:30; this Wednesday August 26 Br. Khalid Muhammad speaks on the Million Youth March and his departure from the Nation of Islam. Upcoming speakers include Cornel West for September. Recognize and attend! For more info, call Karen Mason at Destiny Entertainment (718) 519-1615 or email her at destinyent@aol.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- ------------- For folks living in the Bay Area.. Wednesday August 26th at 12 noon there will be a huge rally at UC Berkeley to protest this kid named Cash who watched as his best friend abducted and later strangled a 7 year old girl in the bathroom of a Nevada Casino.. Cash watched the incident and never reported it or tried to intervene.. Nevada State law says he did nothing wrong.. This kid has also been arrogant toward the public who are very upset..wondering how he could get away with this unethical behavior.. Thousand s are expected to show up on the UC Campus because that is where this kid is starting his freshman year.. They want everyone to know that he's on the campus.. Also on the Bay Area tip.. be on the look out for Souls Of Mischief and entire Heiro Crew.. They will be performing at Geoffrey's Inner Circle [410-14th st in Oakland] on Sept 2.. It's the start of their 35 city tour...Hope to see y'all there... If y'all got any events hit me off and I'll include them.. kingdave@sirius.com _____________________________________________________________________ KRS-ONE vs CANIBUS FEEDBACK Personally I think Canibus should tear into Chris' ass and put him in the Hip Hop Home for the Elderly. I mean for Chris to come out the blue like that and just throw a challenge out and Canibus not respond will show a lack of heart on Canibus' part. That's like some mothafucka coming into your crib and smacking you in front of your family and your boys and you just stand there holding your face getting mad and not retaliating. I don't know about the rest of the Hip Hop fans I can only speak for myself but if Canibus, who I think is one of the last real MC's in the Hip Hop game, doen't respond and put Chris on his ass then I'll have no choice but to lose respect for him. Now I have much respect for KRS and I'm pretty sure Canibus does as well, I mean Chris is an Icon and he is a real Hip Hop activist. I bet if you cut Chris he would bleed lyrics and skill, but icon or not Canibus should respectfully dethrown KRS and make him retire his mic. That's just my opinion on the situation take it as you wish. Carlos ----------------------------------------------------- Re: KRS v Canibus 4 sure, canibus is overrated (he's on some real self-inflicted hypenitis) and krs would take him out in a flash. no problem with you on that point, but i feel that krs himself is making all this noise just to prepare heads for his upcoming album, which last i heard features canibus. and what happened to the ll-canibus war? it came and went like lightning, after all the hype on both sides, and i gotta tell you, even though i was feeling ll's retort, i think he played himself by quitting the battle before it was over. i mean, clef came in and tried to diss him, and ll didn't even try to respond to that shitty diss? that to me is bull, even if ll has other fish to fry, eg his acting career. i'm a cool j fan till i die but after all the noise he made in I Shot Ya and 4, 3, 2, 1 about 'calling every MC in the game/ to play yourself position and mention my name' he set up the scene for a lot of guys to come battle with him if they dared, and then turns round to say, ''sorry but i'm no longer into that shit'', and fades? that's bull and everyone should know it. bottom line: don't start shit you can't finish- don't front like you can take on all comers and then say that you won't anymore cos you feel you've ''moved on''. at least krs, for whatever reason is not afraid to live or die by his statements. i hope canibus tries to step to the Teacher with all those overhyped metaphors, and gets killed; shit gimme his e-mail and i'll get 100 guys to call him out. i'm out Ikhane ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- DaveyD, though I agree with everything you have said about KRS1's work, it is still truly dissapointing to see a hip-hop community member of his stature and age in this mode of thinking. " KRS1 Will End Your Career" . What is that really sying? What does he have to prove? If he's trying to save the culture by pruning the bull_hit out of it, then I'm behind him. If it's just some sort of gratuitous "ego-size" then again it's dissapointing. KRS1 is innevitable. I don't like everything about him but where the brother is strong the brother rules. And yeah, he pretty well is everything that he says he is. But a little humility from him would go a long way. Certainly this KRS1 fan is going to diggin anything he puts out for years to come. Love him or hate him, KRS1's innevitable. Brother J aka The HIP-HOP MOHAWK ------------------------------------------------------------------ DAVEY D! I WAS A PART OF KRS H.E.A.L.PROJECT AND HE'S RIGHT NOBODY SUPPORTED THE JOINT! IT WAS SAD CAUSE THE ARTIST PUT THERE TIME AND EFFORT INTO IT FOR THE CAUSE. WE DIDNT GET PAID! THE CONCEPT WAS DOPE! YOU HAD EVERYBODY FROM KNOWN SUPERSTARS TO UNKNOWN ARTIST LIKE MYSELF! I WAS ON THE A-SIDE A TRACK CALLED "O FREEDOM". KRS WAS NICE ENUFF TO PUT US ON THIS LEGENDARY LP. PEACE AND LOVE MUSIK G ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yo KRS-ONE could mos def take Canibus. If you dont belive me check that new joint he got called Temple Taticts which proves hes still got the battle mentality. I know if Canibus battled KRS there would be no contest cause once canibus ran out of written lyrics he's screwed cause he can't freestyle at ALL. I like canibus but as far as him being better than KRS please he needs to go battle another washed up rapper like LL. Peace Fly ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dave , I'm half way through this issue and I have to stop and write this ...........Why are we even mentioning Canibus ( better yet why is Kris ? ) is the same breath as KRS ? Has he even put out ONE LP yet ? And as for Mr. Robert White, if you wanta talk about Kris fallin off doing tracks wit Puffy , let's talk about Can-I-Bus riding the "Crossover Highway" with Clef' ( what the HELL is that " I Honor You" ? ).... GeeSpin ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Yo DAVEYD.... First of all, I got much love for Canibus...I was one of the few people that got an autograph from him when I was at the Smokin Grooves Concert in Montreal and I was so happy, but then again I also think KRS-1 is the god of Hip-Hop...I just want to let you know that it would be the last thing to battle KRS-1, becuase everyone knows what he already has done for the Hip-Hop culture and what he still can do to battle MC's. I think that he had every right to diss LL becuase he deserved it, but KRS-1 didn't do anything to Canibus...so Canibus wouldn't have anything to say about KRS....I really think that if Canibus still wants to have a career in the Hip-Hop game, he shouldn't battle such a high prophet of Rap. KRS-1, Rakim, they're all old-timers, and they know how the shit works in HipHop, and those kinds of rappers would retaliate very quickly when it comes to them being the victim! ~A big fan of Canibus and KRS-1 P.S. IF Canibus wants to battle, let him battle with lower prophets of Hip-Hop rather than KRS-1!!!!!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- kingdave, While I agree that KRS-One is a lyrical genius and have been listening and following him ever since "By Any Means Necesarry", I think you are being a little hard on Canibus. Don't get me wrong, you're probably right that KRS-One would win in a one-on-one battle. But, basically you're calling Canibus a heartless coward. You make one very clear point when you say there is a lot of media hype behind Canibus. But, that is because of the media. Correct me if I'm wrong, but has Canibus come out claimin' to be better than the likes of KRS-One or Rakim? I haven't heard anything like that. So, basically, what I'm sayin' is blame the media for the hype, don't blaim the man being hyped. Over the years to come, I feel rappers like Canibus, DMX, Xhibit, Jayo Felony, RazKass will prove themselves worry of some of the respect as our old school rappers of yesteryear. Stay up & Stay positive KingDave! Loonee!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Canibus is wack. He will never step into the ring and battle a true legend like KRS. He only wanted to battle L.L. to try to promote himself but he doesn't want a real battle. If his record company thinks he can clash with the titans then they should throw him into the lions den to never be heard from again<<<>>> Dre' -------------------------------------------------------------------- respect to krs-one and the boogie down. your comments are on the money. i saw supernatural battle mad skillz at the nms in nyc around 95 or so. he kicked his ass, but it was mad skillz who eventually had more success commercially. one of the coolest things i've seen was supernatural and his boy mohammed rhyming in washington square park on the daily. they would freestyle and finish eachother's rhymes - phat. krs even did some production for super when he was on east west. canibus would get served by kris. peace, ras j --------------------------------------------------------------------------- irst of all, KRS-ONE's career ended a long time ago. So, for you and him to mention that he could end careers is very true. The fact that he's worth shit now, makes him want to battle the BattleKat Canibus. If he does, it would be like rejuvenating his dead rap career. Don't get me wrong, KRS-ONE was good back in the days, not now...he's washed up...He reminds me of an old boxer trying to make a come back. Maybe we should start calling him Busta Douglas... seriously...listen to Canibuss' rhymes and then listen again...to say that KRS- is going to end his career if they battle is so stupid to say. If Canibus battles KRS-one I would lose respect for Canibus because it would be too easy...And his career would definitely end then...... You know what KRS reminds me of, I'm a young man and I play ball alot, KRS reminds me of that old man who's always on the court talking shit and get his ankles broken...but he's always calling travel (hype). But, at the end I feel sorry for them and just ignore 'em because I know they are just old man looking for some type of recognition and respect from the young.... So, Canibus just ignore this old fool and make your money...He's not even worth one verse....KRS is WACK. He should step the fuck out of the way and let the new generation take over... Jphili -------------------I'm Still Taking Feedback on This Topic--------------------- Hit me off at kingdave@sirius.com Peace for now Davey D The largest and most comprehensive website for hip hop culture and politics is: Davey D's Hip Hop Corner at http://www.daveyd.com Also be sure to subscribe to the Friday Nite Vibe Hip Hop Newsletter It's free.. To subscribe, send email to daveyd-announce-request@daveyd.com with the message: subscribe To subscribe, send email to daveyd-announce-request@daveyd.com with the message: subscribe To unsubscribe, send email to daveyd-announce-request@daveyd.com with the message: unsubscribe If you have subscription problems, send mail to the human at: owner-daveyd-announce@daveyd.com From ???@??? Wed Aug 26 00:57:15 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id VAA14041; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 21:54:48 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 21:54:48 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35E36B54.500@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 18:56:36 -0700 From: Andre LaFosse Reply-To: altruist@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: On Talks with Clubowners... References: <00f101bdd08d$812825a0$93f0ffd0@artmusic.gte> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pOtaY.0.D63.fXsur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1296 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com future perfect wrote: > > Whoah! > You'd be suprised how many coffeehouses *do* pay fo you to play 'ambient, > electronic' stuff. I get booked around here (and get paid) simply because > it's not typical coffeehouse music. Hell, I supported an East Coast US tour > playing only coffeehouses. > And no tip jar is ever involved. Give it a try. > Dave Eichenberger Here in LA, playing for free isn't just the norm, it's pretty much expected until you can prove that you draw a certain number of people with an average gig (and even then you're not necessarily making money). More power to you, though -- I only wish more of that sort of treatment of musicians extended to LA. --Andre From ???@??? Wed Aug 26 00:59:48 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id BAA06191; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 01:34:22 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 01:34:22 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Javier Miranda V." To: Subject: RE: On Talks with Clubowners... Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 22:28:08 -0700 Message-ID: <001001bdd0b2$4f432b00$ecc4efd1@electra> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <001173F7.CE21407@wj.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"RphlO.0.IL1.nnvur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1298 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Where can I read Fripp's comments? | -----Original Message----- | From: Mike Biffle [mailto:Mike.Biffle@wj.com] | Sent: Tuesday 25 August 1998 3:20 PM | To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com; Stephen P. Goodman | Subject: Re: On Talks with Clubowners... | | | >Stephen P. Goodman wrote: | >Is it just me, or is the word "showcase" being used by the owner | to describe | >his venue often a warning that This Might Be A Bad Place To | Play? And, is | >it overused? | | It would depend just what they're actually showcasing! I'd say it | would be more | of a sign of pride in their particular venue... although they | might also be very | finnicky about just what type of music lives up to the *status* | of their club. | | It was interesting to read some of Fripp's talk about the G3 tour... His | statements about "nearly having to pay to play his soundscape stuff" (in | England?) versus being able to play for sold out crowds and be | paid well for it. | | -m | | From ???@??? Wed Aug 26 00:59:47 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id BAA06411; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 01:36:09 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 01:36:09 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35E3AD1B.62766165@mailbox.syr.edu> Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 01:37:15 -0500 From: mark sottilaro Reply-To: msottila@mailbox.syr.edu Organization: metaliminal X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Fwd: FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <40b2adc7.35e36037@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7T1gJ3.0.lC1.ggvur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1297 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com As a creator of original music I find nothing wrong with this at all. From ???@??? Wed Aug 26 00:59:57 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id CAA12152; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 02:41:04 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 02:41:04 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35E3AE43.6D30@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 23:42:11 -0700 From: Andre LaFosse Reply-To: altruist@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Fwd: FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN References: <40b2adc7.35e36037@aol.com> <35E3AD1B.62766165@mailbox.syr.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"j0CNB3.0.kk2.Wjwur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1300 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com mark sottilaro wrote: > > As a creator of original music I find nothing wrong with this at all. The thing that bothers me is the notion that sample-clearance infringements could be a first step towards restrictions far more nebulous and difficult to justify in strictly legal terms, and for those restrictions to be enforced at the manufacturing level. It's one thing for a warning sticker to be placed on somebody's album, or for a certain retail outlet to choose not to stock an album, due to content some people find objectionable; it's a very different thing for a manufacturing plant to reject the production of an album on similar grounds. Obviously, this sort of scenario is several stages in a hypothetical future, but the Negativland situation is still a somewhat disturbing premise, even if the intent (alleged or otherwise) is to crackdown on piracy and unauthorized use of someone else's work. --Andre From ???@??? Wed Aug 26 00:59:51 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id BAA06450; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 01:36:35 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 01:36:35 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35E3AF2F.6060D0CB@mailbox.syr.edu> Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 01:46:07 -0500 From: mark sottilaro Reply-To: msottila@mailbox.syr.edu Organization: metaliminal X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Digitech Space Station..how much? X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <40b2adc7.35e36037@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"PnQ_y2.0.GN1.zovur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1299 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hey, What's the lowest anyone's purchased the Digitech Space Station (XP300) for? I'm shopping, but pretty broke (as usual). Can anyone recommend a good place to get it on the web? I almost bought it locally, but after 10 minutes of checking it out (at a very modest volume) the salesman said, "Are you about done with that?" I replied, "Oh, I guess I'm done shopping." Funny attitude, when you consider that in the beginning conversation with the salesman I told him how much I liked my Digitech 2112. ($950) I have no pity on retail stores when they seem to feel that it's OK to charge extra for rudeness. If someone has one used, that would be fine, as well. Mark. From ???@??? Wed Aug 26 10:22:45 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id EAA19898; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 04:10:26 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 04:10:26 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980826075328.0070f164@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 00:53:28 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Fwd: FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN Resent-Message-ID: <"2o67M1.0.ai4.13yur"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1301 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 01:37 AM 8/26/98 -0500, mark sottilaro wrote: >As a creator of original music I find nothing wrong with this at all. > I used that argument in 1986, and I have not granted you permission to use it. You will be hearing from my crack legal team shortly! But really, I think you would have a difficult time arguing that the zillions of recordings being made in the numerous collage-based genres, using samples, are all unoriginal. Negativland makes a very good point about the Fair Use principles of copyright law, and the rights granted therein. Fair Use has always been a part of the law, but there are not many precedent cases available to define it very well. So the situation is a bit vague, there aren't any solid legal guidelines to follow, and now advances in digital media are pushing the issue to a head. I would imagine that with big record companies and the RIAA aggressively threatening people with lawsuits to make them give up their fair use rights, it won't be long before we see more of this being tried in the courts. Anyway, Negativland convinced me of all this several years ago. They have been making the fair use case quite eloquently for many, many years, and I'd suggest checking out what they have to say before making reactionary statements. Most people don't have a very good grasp on what copyright law is all about, even when they think they do (like confusing copyright with property rights), and even fewer know what Fair Use is. It's a worthwhile thing to learn, rather than assume.... Negativland is also a really cool experimental-noise-found sound music group, not to mention master media artists. Nobody writes press releases as well as they do! they've turned this whole Fair Use crusade into a media art project in and of itself, which is quite fun to follow. Their book "Fair Use: the Story of the Letter U and the Numeral 2" is geat, chronicling their experiences getting almost sued off the planet by U2, Casey Casem, and Island Records, because of a sample on a record. (you might never get to hear the original version, but the song is extremely funny....) Of course that is the same U2 that samples local news broadcasts and tv shows during their stadium concerts, and manipulates them on their giant video screen, without seeking permission from the local tv stations. Apparently their lawyers lack the gene for Irony. Negativland is here, they can speak for themselves just fine: http://www.negativland.com/ kim _________________________________________________________ Kim Flint, MTS kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research 408-752-9284 http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Wed Aug 26 10:24:58 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id KAA18429; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 10:10:47 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 10:10:47 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35E3CE22.A7FE9BFA@nyfac.com> Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 09:58:10 +0100 From: "trevor bajus, digital surgeon" Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com Organization: New York Film and Animation Inc / 3DV X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Fwd: FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN References: <40b2adc7.35e36037@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6-ofz.0.Zo3.5E1vr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1303 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com You know, I find it amusing that hack rip-off artists like Puff Combs have no problems with this sort of stuff, but people who use samples in a creative way, altering the intent, content, and concept of the samples, get crushed. Besides, there are few things as funny as listening to Casey Casem cussing a blue streak about the insignificance of U2. Terminator X, where are you? trev From ???@??? Wed Aug 26 10:24:56 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id KAA17148; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 10:04:27 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 10:04:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <000401bdd0f7$dbeec600$bf084382@hovard> From: "Thomas Whni" To: Subject: Sampling-dilemma (no solution offered here). Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 15:45:58 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"MpE8P2.0.Sc3.B91vr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1302 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hello folks , I`d like to offer my toughts of the subject. Since I live in Norway I`m not really familliar with the bands and organisations you`ve mentioned , so this is more in the "philosophic" alley. The law on sampling is unclear and ambivalent. It states that you can sample anything given that you create a NEW , INDEPENDENT and ORIGINAL work. Further it states that if noone can recognize what you`ve sampled , then you`ve broken no copyright. Pretty vague , huh? What can be copyrighted? Noone can the copyright chordprogressions , meters , grooves , rythmns , keys , riffs , licks etc. etc. You can copyright a combination of these , as in a song. Pick up a fake book and check out "All of me". It`s a basic song , with a chord progression and a melody. That`s all. If you reharmonize the chords and add passing-chords or substitute on chord for another but keep the melody; you`re still playing "All of me". If you change the melody but keep the chords you`re not playing the same song anymore. In this case it seems to me that melody is the only thing that can be copyrighted. BUT. But once you record it ? What then? If you play all your Wes or Benson licks on top of the chords , do you own them? If you record the voicings of Johhny Smith or the harmonocs of Tal Farlow , do you own them? No , of course not. But you own the recording. You own the sound. The writers of "All of me" own the melody you`re playing , but you own the recording of yourself playing it. It seems to me that SOUND is the keyword here. Not just the sound of the instrument but the groove/feel , the spirit. The orginality of your playing. If you sample a couple of bars "Funky Drummer" ,the James Brown tune, you are taking the spirit ,groove and sound of that particular drummer and using it to boost your own thing. This is , in my opinion , a copyright infringement. If you add reverb or chorus to the sample you`re still using HIS thing. But if you alter the sound/feel/groove of the sample? If you chop the beat up , move the bits around and speed it up to make a jungle groove? Then you`ve moved away from the drummer`s own creation and used it to make your own. You have simply used his stuff as starting point , like a soundsource. Just like you might have used a mdid channel 10 on a GM machine. Only you`re not using individual drumsounds , you`re using individual pieces of drumgrooves. A "sample-ologist" might be able to trace this "jungle-groove" you made , and tell that it`s from "Funky Drummer" and sue your ass off. But this means that the sound itself is copyrighted. That the combination of mic-placement , the room in the studio , the eq`ing , the outboard effects and the drums that produced the sound are "owned" by James Brown. If this is true then the drummer who played the beat can never record it again under the same sircumstances. If he got the same sound he did on Brown`s record he would be stealing from "da man". So I think the complex problem of "copyright" should be approached in a intuitive way. Not with spectral analyses or technical "back tracing" but with a musical approach. If the samples are merely building blocks , and not complete structures in the musical piece then I think it`s OK. Anyways , I see now that the point I was building up to has eluded me. I`m not really shure what I`m trying to say here...........Just airing my thoughts on the subject. Now if you guys would just pretend to discuss my post for a couple of days maybe I wouldn`t feel so darn dumb. :-) Yours , Thomas W Feel free to check out my web-site: http://www.geocities.com/Eureka/Promenade/1628/ From ???@??? Wed Aug 26 10:28:55 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA31056; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:31:34 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:31:34 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 10:20:58 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Fwd: FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19980826075328.0070f164@pop.chromatic.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"mw68W2.0.vB7.zV2vr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1307 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Speaking of Negativland and U2... one of the most brilliant bits of media manipulation they ever did was right after U2's label crushed them for sampling U2. Mondo 2000 magazine (are they still in print?) interviewed The Edge - and had Negativland do the interview. :P The Edge, not surprisingly, had no idea that his label's lawyers had basically wiped out a very creative band for sampling his music. He thought their project sounded really cool, and was quite upset about the whole thing. -dave Practice beautiful randomness and act kind of senseless. From ???@??? Wed Aug 26 10:29:01 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA01212; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:48:18 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:48:18 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:35:44 -0400 (EDT) From: David Talento X-Sender: legion@unix01 cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: On Talks with Clubowners... In-Reply-To: <000c01bdd073$5c3474c0$7ae9fea9@stepheng> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Zk07O1.0.bn7.ij2vr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1308 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > Is it just me, or is the word "showcase" being used by the owner to describe > his venue often a warning that This Might Be A Bad Place To Play? And, is > it overused? as has been already mentioned "showcase" can mean everything from "You play here for free for the priveledge of being seen" to: "You pay me for the honor of being in my club" to "You get a chance to play for an audience that will potentially dig you and may/may not get paid in the process." so the lesson is define what the clubowner thinks is a "showcase" and then decided if you wnast ot do that accordingly. Personally I don't think there is anything wrong with being a professional (or amateur) musicians and deciding to do one off or free shows if you want to so i wouldn't let that alone discourage you from playing. besides it might be a good place to start sharpening your live skills and building an audience you can then take somewhere else. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- HELP WANTED PRODUCTIONS - Http://www.voicenet.com/~legion "Bringing you the best in Organic Electronic music since we started..." Home of the Unusual Instrument and Recording Gallery with pictures and info of Tube recorders, Omnichords, weird guitars, Casios, and more. From ???@??? Wed Aug 26 10:28:44 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA26571; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:03:47 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:03:47 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Kevin Simonson Message-Id: <199808261446.AA217632798@eagle.uis.edu> Subject: Electro Harmonix Rumblings... To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 09:46:38 -0600 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <199808260717.DAA15639@rosy.yourwebhost.com> from "Loopers-Delight-d-request@annihilist.com" at Aug 26, 98 03:17:22 am Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"nyXl62.0.vt5.s-1vr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1304 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com This came through on the Analogue Heaven Mailing List today... Re: Release Dates for Reissues Wednesday, 19-Aug-98 03:25:03 206.152.244.163 writes: Here are a couple of old posts that might help:> > the latest from the Electro Harmonix BB: > > WOOHOO!!! > > > The latest news from Sovtek/EH > > Friday, 05-Jun-98 15:57:28 > > > > Message: > > 153.34.110.55 (Ron Neely)writes: > > > > I just got the following info from Mike Matthews himself: > > > > 1. We received the Frequency Analyzer. Thanx...it works fine. > > We have already a/b'd the first new Freq Analyzer design and > > are proceeding. > > (Ron Neely, aka, the EHman, sent his frequency analyzer to Sovtek for > use in designing a re-issue) > > > 2. We ARE reissuing the Microsynthesizer and Bass > > Microsynthesizer. The board has already been designed and we > > await first production samples. We expect to have this on > > market in 3 to 5 months. > > > > 3. We are reissuing the 16 second digital delay. Of course now, > > memories are so much bigger, that we have this first model > > prepped to be 16 times more powerful. The only addition will be > > a midi out sync so it can drive a midi drum machine as option. > > > > The EH Man > > > Re: Re: The latest news from Sovtek/EH > > Monday, 08-Jun-98 16:11:39 > > > > 206.86.66.169 writes: > > > > The message I got from EH/Sovtek sales manager Ralph Trimarchi > > said that the Guitar Microsynth would be available first, as a > > limited production run in about 2-3 months, and that the Bass > > Microsynth would follow a couple months later in a non-limited > > run. He also mentioned the planned Polychorus (no target date) > > reissue, but not the BassBall. -- Kevin Simonson Computer Science Graduate Program simonson@uis.edu University of Illinois - Springfield "Tell us/is it you who is here for our good cheer? OR/are we here/for the glory/for the story/for the gory satisfaction of telling you how absolutely awful you really are." Jethro Tull, "A Passion Play" From ???@??? Wed Aug 26 10:29:06 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA02485; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:55:41 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:55:41 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:47:37 -0400 (EDT) From: David Talento X-Sender: legion@unix01 To: "Looper's Delight" Subject: Coffeehouses (Was Re: Getting paid to play) In-Reply-To: <199808261448.HAA40090@scv1.apple.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"wqXSf1.0.SI.tu2vr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1309 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > >> You'd be suprised how many coffeehouses *do* pay fo you to play 'ambient, > >> electronic' stuff. I get booked around here (and get paid) simply because > > I'm glad that you were able to get paid in this manner, but I'm sad to > report that my experience in Austin is that you won't get paid unless you Two different views and both are right of course. I imiagine Austin is one of the hardest places to break into due to all the live muc all over the place. However in some towns peoepl are starving for interesting stuff and would like to hear something different in a non club atmosphere. A few years ago I literally browbeat a local coffeehouse into letting me play on weekends. it was hard work but went very well. i got paid a pittance but was able to do *anything* I wanted and defined the sets, equipment and such and sometimes played three hours for the rotating audience that came in from the local bars got some joe and then left. A Lot of people I never would have reached heard what i did. Some of them even dug it. I ended up playing there a couple times and even recorded live album there (PLUG- Still available on my web page as the Caffeine Album:)). I Sold tapes, got tips, got paid, and most of all had a blast and learned more about my equipment and improvisation than I ever could in the typical club (where you still might not get paid and certainly wouldn't get such a flexible weekend set.) You never know until you try. I wouldn't recommend going into a coffeehouse thinging you're going to rake in the cash, but if you find the right one you can have a lot of fun and try some new things. looping and ambeint work would seem to be ideal for this kind of an atmosphere and while most owners won't see it that way if you break in and do well you will have a chance to do more. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- HELP WANTED PRODUCTIONS - Http://www.voicenet.com/~legion "Bringing you the best in Organic Electronic music since we started..." Home of the Unusual Instrument and Recording Gallery with pictures and info of Tube recorders, Omnichords, weird guitars, Casios, and more. From ???@??? Wed Aug 26 10:28:49 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA28064; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:12:24 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:12:24 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199808261448.HAA40090@scv1.apple.com> Subject: Getting paid to play Date: Wed, 26 Aug 98 09:50:26 -0600 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"Rb-QI.0.ER6.nD2vr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1305 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >> You'd be suprised how many coffeehouses *do* pay fo you to play 'ambient, >> electronic' stuff. I get booked around here (and get paid) simply because >> it's not typical coffeehouse music. Hell, I supported an East Coast US tour >> playing only coffeehouses. >> And no tip jar is ever involved. Give it a try. >> Dave Eichenberger I'm glad that you were able to get paid in this manner, but I'm sad to report that my experience in Austin is that you won't get paid unless you clearly demonstrate a clear financial advantage for the venue (coffeehouse, bar, etc). If people don't come to see you, AND spend money at the venue, the owner isn't interested in paying you, and is most likely not interested in booking you. "Every night not spent cultivating a Next Big Thing is a night wasted" appears to be the guiding principle in most cases. As musicians, we often expect to be paid for our playing. From an owner's standpoint, he doesn't care what you do, as long as it brings in paying customers. Travis Hartnett From ???@??? Wed Aug 26 10:28:52 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA28282; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:13:36 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:13:36 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199808261459.HAA37980@scv2.apple.com> Subject: Rude salespeople, (Space Station) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 98 10:01:22 -0600 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"yARef.0.Bc6.rH2vr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1306 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >What's the lowest anyone's purchased the Digitech Space Station (XP300) for? >I'm shopping, but pretty broke (as usual). Can anyone recommend a good place >to get it on the web? I almost bought it locally, but after 10 minutes of >checking it out (at a very modest volume) the salesman said, "Are you about >done with that?" I replied, "Oh, I guess I'm done shopping." > >Funny attitude, when you consider that in the beginning conversation with the >salesman I told him how much I liked my Digitech 2112. ($950) I have no pity >on retail stores when they seem to feel that it's OK to charge extra for >rudeness. Did you buy the 2112 from that retailer? Travis Hartnett From ???@??? Wed Aug 26 10:29:45 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA09840; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:38:35 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:38:35 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 09:22:31 -0700 Message-ID: <00117D42.CE21407@wj.com> From: Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle) Subject: Re[2]: On Talks with Clubowners... To: , "Javier Miranda V." Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"lrfqV.0.5-1.MV3vr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1311 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Boy... I just read this about a week ago. There were a larger number of articles available on the Elephant Talk site last week!? Several of them were links which led to "Article withdrawn by request of Fripp..." notices. But I believe the G3 article was still up. There's the outside chance that a search result concerning Fripp led me to this at another site. Sorry for the vagueness. I tried to go to the site and look up the article, but a bunch of stuff different at the articles link. Maybe it's somewhere else on the site? I've read other comments about Joe Satriani being a big Fripp fan in interviews about G3. -Miko ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: RE: On Talks with Clubowners... Author: "Javier Miranda V." at INTERNET Date: 8/25/98 10:28 PM Where can I read Fripp's comments? | -----Original Message----- | From: Mike Biffle [mailto:Mike.Biffle@wj.com] | Sent: Tuesday 25 August 1998 3:20 PM | To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com; Stephen P. Goodman | Subject: Re: On Talks with Clubowners... | | | >Stephen P. Goodman wrote: | >Is it just me, or is the word "showcase" being used by the owner | to describe | >his venue often a warning that This Might Be A Bad Place To | Play? And, is | >it overused? | | It would depend just what they're actually showcasing! I'd say it | would be more | of a sign of pride in their particular venue... although they | might also be very | finnicky about just what type of music lives up to the *status* | of their club. | | It was interesting to read some of Fripp's talk about the G3 tour... His | statements about "nearly having to pay to play his soundscape stuff" (in | England?) versus being able to play for sold out crowds and be | paid well for it. | | -m | | From ???@??? Wed Aug 26 10:29:55 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA09680; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:37:38 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:37:38 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <35E43650.68D6@mdbs.com> Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:22:40 -0500 From: "Dennis W. Leas" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; U) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Electro Harmonix Rumblings... References: <199808261446.AA217632798@eagle.uis.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MRstr2.0.hb1.LM3vr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1310 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Kevin Simonson wrote: > > This came through on the Analogue Heaven Mailing List today... > > Re: Release Dates for Reissues > Wednesday, 19-Aug-98 03:25:03 > > > > > > > 3. We are reissuing the 16 second digital delay. Of course now, > > > memories are so much bigger, that we have this first model > > > prepped to be 16 times more powerful. The only addition will be > > > a midi out sync so it can drive a midi drum machine as option. Thanks for the information. What's the name of this delay (model, etc.)? Where can I get more information? - Dennis Leas From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 00:20:03 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA22082; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 13:53:34 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 13:53:34 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <03cf01bdd119$7e6cf7a0$93f0ffd0@artmusic.gte> From: "future perfect" To: Subject: Re: Getting paid to play Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 13:46:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"kC4IN2.0.t55.xc4vr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1312 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Ah yes, everywhere faces the same problem. Strange though, if all of the musicans, no matter what style, refused to play for free, lots of these places would shut down. When travelling, it becomes more difficult. If I travel 1000 miles away to play somewhere, how can I make sure the place is filled? Or that the club advertised at all? I can't bring 500 of my friends (yeah, like I have 500 friends at all!) with me... Many venue owners that I have played for haven't had this attitude- their place is a place that always has people in it, because maybe the food is good, maybe the drinks are good, maybe theres nowhere else to go in the area. In any case, they don't rely on musicians (some would say the most unreliable people around) for their money. There are still some people who think of music as a service they provide, rather than the only way they can get people in there. If you come across a club owner with the attitude of 'how much money can you make me', then run away! Usually they won't pay, bitch about volume and set times, and whine that you didn't bring anyone in (even if you clearly have). Besides, you'll be competing with a loud, drunken crowd who couldn't care less about how you combined that Indian sounding 13/8 beat over the 5/8 theme in 'Tarkus'. And you'll leave thinking 'was it worth all this' and 'am I doing the right thing'? There are lots of options for loopy music, many are not places that normally have music. Museums, art galleries, lobbies of performing art centers, aquariums, etc...if they don't normally have music there, go tell them why they should, and offer your services. Many places like this have $ set aside for 'special events', and the audience you'll find is very receptive to new music. Dave Eichenberger ********************************************************************* 'Future Perfect' - art music - visit our website at: http://home1.gte.net/artmusic/ >I'm glad that you were able to get paid in this manner, but I'm sad to >report that my experience in Austin is that you won't get paid unless you >clearly demonstrate a clear financial advantage for the venue >(coffeehouse, bar, etc). > If people don't come to see you, AND spend money at the venue, the >owner isn't interested in paying you, and is most likely not interested >in booking you. "Every night not spent cultivating a Next Big Thing is a >night wasted" appears to be the guiding principle in most cases. As >musicians, we often expect to be paid for our playing. From an owner's >standpoint, he doesn't care what you do, as long as it brings in paying >customers. > >Travis Hartnett > From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 00:20:13 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA27087; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 14:25:15 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 14:25:15 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <2C396693FBDED111AEF60000F84104A71A6411@indyexch_fddi.indy.tce.com> From: Hoover Alan To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Getting paid to play Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 13:14:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"76K1w.0.uD6.335vr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1313 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Let me see if I understand: You can work your tail off, make something of quality, advertise it (i.e., play for free for a while), and if people like it they will start paying for it. If not, they will look for something they do like, and maybe pay for that. The beautiful part is that if you hit on something people like, you can eventually be rewarded for your efforts, and not be punished for being successful. Well, less so now than earlier. (Maybe not for long, though....) If you don't make what they like, you can either try something else, or you can go on making what YOU like, and maybe they will like it later, or maybe they won't. If you keep on making what they don't like, and they keep on not liking what you make, you can bitch about it all you want, as long as you don't disturb other people. You won't get punished for that either. Or, you can quit making anything. Life is not often fair. Yet, America is beautiful. I like it here! ********************************************************************* 'Future Perfect' - art music - visit our website at: http://home1.gte.net/artmusic/ >I'm glad that you were able to get paid in this manner, but I'm sad to >report that my experience in Austin is that you won't get paid unless you >clearly demonstrate a clear financial advantage for the venue >(coffeehouse, bar, etc). > If people don't come to see you, AND spend money at the venue, the >owner isn't interested in paying you, and is most likely not interested >in booking you. "Every night not spent cultivating a Next Big Thing is a >night wasted" appears to be the guiding principle in most cases. As >musicians, we often expect to be paid for our playing. From an owner's >standpoint, he doesn't care what you do, as long as it brings in paying >customers. > >Travis Hartnett > From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 00:20:26 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA05674; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 15:23:55 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 15:23:55 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 15:09:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Rob Monn To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Getting paid to play In-Reply-To: <2C396693FBDED111AEF60000F84104A71A6411@indyexch_fddi.indy.tce.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Rj4P82.0.4k.Uq5vr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1314 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com My old band -- Julia Galaxy (a group in which i used my jam man extensively) decided that to get started we would have to play at a venue regularly that didn't have a door. this meant that we didn't get paid -- but we bartered instead... usually free drinks, which was nice... we'd show up early, catch up with each other and drink a beer or two before we set up. point is this: we built up quite an audience... drawing more than 100 a few times on a sunday night in dc! then we were approached about a new place opening in a not so frequented neighborhood that needed some draw to get going. we played there for $150 a gig weekly for six months *and* got to go hang out there, drink for free, whatever as much as we wanted. we made contacts there and so on... because we played for free until the opp came up we never felt like we always played _our_ music, our way.... and it paid off. until i moved to nyc, that is. From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 00:20:30 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA08112; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 15:38:10 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 15:38:10 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35E4615A.20D9@dmans.com> Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 14:26:18 -0500 From: "Mikell D. Nelson" Reply-To: mnelson@dmans.com Organization: Boomerang Musical Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Fwd: FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN References: <40b2adc7.35e36037@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kyDeN3.0.eV1.J56vr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1315 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Yo sampler, While I respect your right to your own opinion, I strongly disagree with your basic tenant: artists have the right to sample (copy) portions of another artist's work for their own use. I believe this is simply stealing. Sampling is fine, just be honest about it. Give credit to your sources and pay for using the original artist's work. Motley > GRAIGORY2@aol.com wrote: > > I received this article the other day from Lee Ballinger and the good folks > over at Rock N Roll Confidential.. I thought it was something we should > know about especially since I had let y'all know about the recent clamp > downs on mixtapes and other forms of 'illegally recorded' music.. The RIAA > really is on a mission.. This new tactic is kinda scary because it's really > gonna hurt the underground hip hop artists who have been doing their thing > without clearing samples.. > > One of the things currently stiffling hip hop's creativity is the fact > that a producer can no longer sample 4 or 5 songs and come up with a unique > sound for us to groove to... Publishing companies which usually own the > rights to a lot these songs have been aggressively going after producers > who sample and don't get things cleared.. At the same time these publishing > companies demand tremendous amounts of money and royalty points to songs > containing samples from their music catalogue. Hence anartist can sample 2 > or 3 songs and will actually owe all the publishing houses 200% plus some > upfront money for the song.. It's no wonder so many artists have resorted > to just sampling one familiar loop.. It's gotten way too expensive to do > otherwise.. From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 00:20:29 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA08449; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 15:40:21 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 15:40:21 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: RE: Getting paid to play Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:30:47 -0700 Message-ID: <000101bdd128$0704e420$0e80dacf@stepheng> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 In-Reply-To: <2C396693FBDED111AEF60000F84104A71A6411@indyexch_fddi.indy.tce.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"TuBdi2.0.Pj1.QA6vr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1316 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Alas, I have avoided this question for now simply because I love doing the work, and I know presently more efficient ways of keeping the power and phone working. :) So in terms of tips, or the like, in LA, from watching my friends go through situations with varying evolved forms of life known (for lack of a better term) as clubowners, I suppose part of my brain was able to expect nothing in terms of money, so long as I'm in Los Angeles. Folks I suspect are too jaded even if they're NOT in the business, just being immersed in it all the time, thus the relative "ho hum" factor, yes? This of course only foreshadows trend mechanics in other parts of the world, though, thankfully, not as intensely as it is here. So we all still have places to go to be able to artistically express ourselves, is what matters. My question wasn't about money. It was more concerned with this use of the word "showcase" even if it's being used by some guy whose place is less than a few months old. Perhaps it's more this area, huh? Kind of like, if you want someone to pay attention to a screenplay, you'd better have it in the format expected as 'standard', else oblivion...? Or perhaps, in terms of regular office PC users, there are more than a few who, at some point, confuse the aspect of Learning Their PC Stuff with Doing The Job One Was Hired For. They feel completely justified in being this way, because they perceive (however incorrectly) that, if they don't learn the PC stuff, they'll eventually get sacked. Perhaps LA clubowners (or those as well in other 'sophisticated' parts of the world) have a thing in this regard, whether they're new to the biz or not... Kind of like everyone wanting to have an Internet hookup but not knowing how... For now I'm wondering - after 10 or so talks with owners, and the discussion here - whether I should concentrate on places with Net tieins, and leave the rest of it to the old schoolers. Still, if I get money for this, it's a frigging gift from the audience or circumstance, or just the whole buggar. Stephen Goodman - It's... The Loop Of The Week (Persis Khambatta)! EarthLight Studios - http://www.earthlight.net/Studios From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 00:20:44 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA12306; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 15:57:06 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 15:57:06 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35E46599.5149@dmans.com> Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 14:44:25 -0500 From: "Mikell D. Nelson" Reply-To: mnelson@dmans.com Organization: Boomerang Musical Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Sampling-dilemma (no solution offered here). References: <000401bdd0f7$dbeec600$bf084382@hovard> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"spIsk2.0.s92.tK6vr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1317 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Thomas's analysis is very insightful, I think, and points out a real problem: who will determine if a sound is modified enough to be original? If a law is passed to protect artist's rights then some committee will have to be established to render judgements on every case. Sounds like a perscription for slow and inconsistent treatment of individuals, in other words a typical government beaurocracy. I don't think it's "reactionary" just good sense to say create your own samples, license them from the creator or purchase commercially available grooves and sounds. Motley > > The law on sampling is unclear and ambivalent. It states that you can sample anything given that you create a NEW , INDEPENDENT and ORIGINAL work. Further it states that if noone can recognize what you`ve sampled , then you`ve broken no copyright. Pretty vague , huh? > > What can be copyrighted? Noone can the copyright chordprogressions , meters , grooves , rythmns , keys , riffs , licks etc. etc. You can copyright a combination of these , as in a song. Pick up a fake book and check out "All of me". It`s a basic song , with a chord progression and a melody. That`s all. If you reharmonize the chords and add passing-chords or substitute on chord for another but keep the melody; you`re still playing "All of me". If you change the melody but keep the chords you`re > > BUT. But once you record it ? What then? If you play all your Wes or Benson licks on top of the chords , do you own them? If you record the voicings of Johhny Smith or the harmonocs of Tal Farlow , do you own them? No , of course not. But you own the recording. You own the sound. The writers of "All of me" own the melody you`re playing , but you own the recording of yourself playing it. > > It seems to me that SOUND is the keyword here. Not just the sound of the instrument but the groove/feel , the spirit. The orginality of your playing. If you sample a couple of bars "Funky Drummer" ,the James Brown tune, you are taking the spirit ,groove and sound of that particular drummer and using it to boost your own thing. This is , in my opinion , a copyright infringement. If you add reverb or chorus to the sample you`re still using HIS thing. > > But if you alter the sound/feel/groove of the sample? If you chop the beat up , move the bits around and speed it up to make a jungle groove? Then you`ve moved away from the drummer`s own creation and used it to make your own. You have simply used his stuff as > starting point , like a soundsource. Just like you might have used a mdid channel 10 on a GM machine. Only you`re not using individual drumsounds , you`re using individual pieces of drumgrooves. > > A "sample-ologist" might be able to trace this "jungle-groove" you made , and tell that it`s from "Funky Drummer" and sue your ass off. But this means that the sound itself is copyrighted. That the combination of mic-placement , the room in the studio , the eq`ing , the outboard effects and the drums that produced the sound are "owned" by James Brown. If this is true then the drummer who played the beat can never record it again under the same sircumstances. If he got the same sound he did on Br > > So I think the complex problem of "copyright" should be approached in a intuitive way. Not with spectral analyses or technical "back tracing" but with a musical approach. If the samples are merely building blocks , and not complete structures in the musical piece then I think it`s OK. > > Anyways , I see now that the point I was building up to has eluded me. I`m not really shure what I`m trying to say here...........Just airing my thoughts on the subject. > > Yours , Thomas W From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 00:20:49 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA13598; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 16:05:42 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 16:05:42 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199808261446.AA217632798@eagle.uis.edu> References: <199808260717.DAA15639@rosy.yourwebhost.com> from "Loopers-Delight-d-request@annihilist.com" at Aug 26, 98 03:17:22 am Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:53:56 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: Electro Harmonix Rumblings... Resent-Message-ID: <"fZHJJ.0.Xq2.eU6vr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1318 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > > > 3. We are reissuing the 16 second digital delay. Of course now, > > > memories are so much bigger, that we have this first model > > > prepped to be 16 times more powerful. The only addition will be > > > a midi out sync so it can drive a midi drum machine as option. Hey that sounds pretty cool. Doesn't the original unit allow you to change the delay time? So, is it safe to assume that the MIDI beat clock output would shift accordingly? Can that happen w/o a discontiuity in the beat clock? Anyone know how the EDP would respond to changing beat clock tempo, if it were syncing off the beat clock? Would there be a gap if the tempo slowed down and would it cut off the loop, if the tempo sped up? .... - chris ----------------------------- AVIRIS Experiment Coordinator avec@makalu.jpl.nasa.gov pager #: (888) 415-4547 From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 00:20:52 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA16550; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 16:25:52 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 16:25:52 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: RE: Fwd: FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 13:03:07 -0700 Message-ID: <000201bdd12c$8c8a9320$e923dacf@stepheng> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 In-Reply-To: <35E4615A.20D9@dmans.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"ueWUp1.0.zZ3.Ho6vr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1319 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I have to agree with ol' Motley, who said: >Sampling is fine, just be honest about it. Give > credit to your > sources and pay for using the original artist's work. Bravo! One of my recurring day-mares involves seeing a commercial and realising that one of my Loops Of The Week is the background for it. At least I copyright my work! And soon I'll have the first set of 366 registered with BMI, though if you thought it was a pain to process the paperwork for a collection of 9 or 10 songs... well! I have to submit cassettes containing cuts, 30 seconds long each for every loop, for them all to be protected, if only in theory. Let's face it, I can't afford to police the airwaves myself, so firms like BMI and ASCAP can do it for me, if to an extent. Frankly, the whole bit with all-sampling pieces, is not much more to me than the musical equivalent of decoupage that I remember some kids used to do in Jr. High School, on their lunchboxes. One out of Six that did such business was actually interested in the Art of it - the rest used others' images because they couldn't produce them on their own. It would seem to be the same line I saw between people that can Really Draw, and those who learn to Draw. There IS a difference. There is no kind of defense as far as I'm concerned for stealing other peoples' work in this way, either. Period. Stephen Goodman - It's... The Loop Of The Week! EarthLight Studios - http://www.earthlight.net/Studios From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 00:21:00 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA19031; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 16:41:25 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 16:41:25 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Legion@voicenet.com Message-ID: <35E46F04.4CC3@voicenet.com> Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 16:24:36 -0400 Reply-To: Legion@voicenet.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.02 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Electro Harmonix Rumblings... References: <199808260717.DAA15639@rosy.yourwebhost.com> from "Loopers-Delight-d-request@annihilist.com" at Aug 26, 98 03:17:22 am Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lRQmE2.0.r24.Hz6vr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1320 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Oh boy... > > > > 3. We are reissuing the 16 second digital delay. Of course now, > > > > memories are so much bigger, that we have this first model > > > > prepped to be 16 times more powerful. The only addition will be > > > > a midi out sync so it can drive a midi drum machine as option. > > Hey that sounds pretty cool. Doesn't the original unit allow you to change > the delay time? So, is it safe to assume that the MIDI beat clock output > would shift accordingly? Can that happen w/o a discontiuity in the beat > clock? I was the person who originally mailed this to the AH list. I have to point out that ALL of this is vaporware at this point. the 16 second delay more than any other piece. Even Ron Neeley the EH man (and a *great* repair tech BTW) who posted this to his page just shrugs and said he doesn't know if sovtek/new Sensor is serious or not. One thing I will say with certainty is that these rumors have been running for well over two years (regarding the Micro/Bass microsynth) the pedal hasn't been released or given a relase date yet and no official word is out when/if it will be available let alone features and prices. So basically don't hold your breath folks. Years ago mid rumbling of the microsynth reissue I got one at VINTAGE!!(tm) prices and quite frankly I'm glad I did, I love it dearly. if these creatures do come out all the better. Personally i'm not about to pay $800+ for a broken/scratched up used 16 second delay anyway so it's not as though I'm missing something if the wait is two more years or never for that matter. I posted the mails because i thought it might squash some of the more outragoues rumors that were going around not to start or confirm new ones. I would hate to see discussions about specifics on a piece that doesn't even exist yet start to creep up. Me, I love my obie echoplex :) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- HELP WANTED PRODUCTIONS - Http://www.voicenet.com/~legion "Bringing you the best in Organic Electronic music since we started..." Home of the Unusual Instrument and Recording Gallery with pictures and info of Tube recorders, Omnichords, weird guitars, Casios, and more. From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 00:20:55 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA20254; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 16:47:48 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 16:47:48 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: The Unit Circle Message-Id: <199808262029.QAA04349@keys.com> Subject: Re: On Talks with Clubowners... To: sgoodman@earthlight.net Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 16:29:28 -0400 (EDT) Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <000c01bdd073$5c3474c0$7ae9fea9@stepheng> from "Stephen P. Goodman" at Aug 25, 98 02:57:31 pm Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"gMNcd1.0.sD4.U17vr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1321 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I guess it depends. Is the club a showcase? That means to me that everynight there a several un-related small bands playing to their friends and whoever they can convince to show up. I've played these kinds of places in Seattle (Odyssey/China Chef/China Club for the locals), and swore I would never play there again. If it's a showcase show that could be a cool thing, for example "A Looper's Showcase" It's all in the context... Kevin > > Hi folks, > > I've a question for the more seasoned of you amongst us, who are perhaps > more used to dealing with clubowners (including coffee houses and the > like)... > > Is it just me, or is the word "showcase" being used by the owner to describe > his venue often a warning that This Might Be A Bad Place To Play? And, is > it overused? > > Stephen Goodman - It's... The Loop Of The Week (Persis Khambatta)! > EarthLight Studios - http://www.earthlight.net/Studios > From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 00:20:58 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA21054; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 16:52:42 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 16:52:42 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: From: David Kirkdorffer To: Hoover Alan , "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: Loopers: Commerce vs. Conscience Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 16:40:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"32nVi3.0.nn4.zD7vr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1323 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Loopers! Hoover Alan sums-up options in commerce with our music quite accurately to my experience. His progression resonates like the life-cycle of a musician. Another dimension to analyse with would be by asking: "Is what I'm doing true to my aspirations?" On that plane, we can only answer to our conscience. David Kirkdorffer > -----Original Message----- > From: Hoover Alan [SMTP:HooverA@tce.com] > Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 1998 2:14 PM > To: 'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com' > Subject: RE: Getting paid to play > > Let me see if I understand: > > Life is not often fair. Yet, America is beautiful. I like it here! > > ********************************************************************* > 'Future Perfect' - art music - visit our website at: > http://home1.gte.net/artmusic/ > From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 00:20:59 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA21925; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 16:57:21 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 16:57:21 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Edward_Chang@mail.amsinc.com X-Lotus-FromDomain: AMSINC To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Message-ID: <8525666C.00712E8F.00@ams-central-gate-5a.amsinc.com> Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 16:43:42 -0400 Subject: Re: Fwd: FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"qNy6u3.0.Qc4.wA7vr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1322 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com What do y'all think about visual artists who use collage-type techniques in their work? For example artists (whose names I won't list here) who use commercial advertisements, national icons, media characters, brand names, etc... as part of a mixed media painting? Or sculpture (I recall one friend who nailed a mangled MacIntosh keyboard into a piece of sculpture and burned it and then exhibited the remains)? Would that person be obligated to ask Apple for permission? I'd think that that's a rare (if ever) occurrence. Is there 'theft of image' here? Kim Flint on 08/26/98 03:53:28 AM Please respond to Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com cc: (bcc: Edward Chang/AMS/AMSINC) Subject: Re: Fwd: FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN At 01:37 AM 8/26/98 -0500, mark sottilaro wrote: >As a creator of original music I find nothing wrong with this at all. > I used that argument in 1986, and I have not granted you permission to use it. You will be hearing from my crack legal team shortly! But really, I think you would have a difficult time arguing that the zillions of recordings being made in the numerous collage-based genres, using samples, are all unoriginal. Negativland makes a very good point about the Fair Use principles of copyright law, and the rights granted therein. Fair Use has always been a part of the law, but there are not many precedent cases available to define it very well. So the situation is a bit vague, there aren't any solid legal guidelines to follow, and now advances in digital media are pushing the issue to a head. I would imagine that with big record companies and the RIAA aggressively threatening people with lawsuits to make them give up their fair use rights, it won't be long before we see more of this being tried in the courts. Anyway, Negativland convinced me of all this several years ago. They have been making the fair use case quite eloquently for many, many years, and I'd suggest checking out what they have to say before making reactionary statements. Most people don't have a very good grasp on what copyright law is all about, even when they think they do (like confusing copyright with property rights), and even fewer know what Fair Use is. It's a worthwhile thing to learn, rather than assume.... Negativland is also a really cool experimental-noise-found sound music group, not to mention master media artists. Nobody writes press releases as well as they do! they've turned this whole Fair Use crusade into a media art project in and of itself, which is quite fun to follow. Their book "Fair Use: the Story of the Letter U and the Numeral 2" is geat, chronicling their experiences getting almost sued off the planet by U2, Casey Casem, and Island Records, because of a sample on a record. (you might never get to hear the original version, but the song is extremely funny....) Of course that is the same U2 that samples local news broadcasts and tv shows during their stadium concerts, and manipulates them on their giant video screen, without seeking permission from the local tv stations. Apparently their lawyers lack the gene for Irony. Negativland is here, they can speak for themselves just fine: http://www.negativland.com/ kim _________________________________________________________ Kim Flint, MTS kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research 408-752-9284 http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 00:21:06 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA27590; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 17:28:27 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 17:28:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <35E47D06.292E@mdbs.com> Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 16:24:22 -0500 From: "Dennis W. Leas" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; U) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Fwd: FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN References: <8525666C.00712E8F.00@ams-central-gate-5a.amsinc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"hozQF2.0.2R6.Cn7vr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1324 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Edward_Chang@mail.amsinc.com wrote: > > What do y'all think about visual artists who use collage-type techniques in > their work? For example artists (whose names I won't list here) who use > commercial advertisements, national icons, media characters, brand names, > etc... as part of a mixed media painting? Or sculpture (I recall one > friend who nailed a mangled MacIntosh keyboard into a piece of sculpture > and burned it and then exhibited the remains)? Would that person be > obligated to ask Apple for permission? I'd think that that's a rare (if > ever) occurrence. Is there 'theft of image' here? Oh, you can BUY a Macintosh keyboard and exhibit it however you want. I'm sure if you distributed 500 copies of your CD with a sample from say, somebody's CD "xyzqrt", lawyers for that somebody would not have problem if you had BOUGHT 500 copies of CD "xyzqrt" as a 'usage license'. (Of course, lawyers have al sorts of other problems ;) I'm NOT proposing this as a solution, you understand... You bring up an interesting point. If a producer 'samples' a brand name in a major motion picture by showing the star using the product, the brand owner typically pays for the advertising (by prior arrangement, of course) instead of sueing for payment. See any inconsistency here? - Dennis Leas From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 00:21:12 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA29945; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 17:43:01 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 17:43:01 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980826212459.00e4ae04@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 14:24:59 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Electro Harmonix Rumblings... Resent-Message-ID: <"biiPm2.0.Za6.Dq7vr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1325 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 12:53 PM 8/26/98 -0700, Chris Chovit wrote: > >> > > 3. We are reissuing the 16 second digital delay. Of course now, >> > > memories are so much bigger, that we have this first model >> > > prepped to be 16 times more powerful. The only addition will be >> > > a midi out sync so it can drive a midi drum machine as option. > >Hey that sounds pretty cool. Doesn't the original unit allow you to change >the delay time? So, is it safe to assume that the MIDI beat clock output >would shift accordingly? Can that happen w/o a discontiuity in the beat >clock? > >Anyone know how the EDP would respond to changing beat clock tempo, if it >were syncing off the beat clock? Would there be a gap if the tempo slowed >down and would it cut off the loop, if the tempo sped up? .... When the clock gets faster, the echoplex will retrigger it's loop early, so it won't quite get to the end, and when it goes slower, the beginning part of the loop gets played again before getting retriggered. (I think that's right, haven't done that in a while.....) If the clock changes too far, the echoplex will stop trying to sync to it and just loop freely. So once the clock moves out of a tolerance range, it ignores the clock. (It's assumed at that point that the clock change is intentional and not a random fluctuation, so sync is no longer meaningful.) If the clock moves back into range, the echoplex will usually begin to sync to it again. I'm afraid I don't remember what the range is...Probably +/-10 BPM or something. If you're just looking for something that conveniently varies midi clock tempo, try an old Alesis HR-16 drum machine. With the data slider controlling tempo, you can smoothly slide the clock all over. You can even do fine adjustments with the up/down buttons. Very handy, even displays the BPM. I'm pretty sure a used HR-16 will be a lot cheaper than a midified EH 16-sec delay...:-) kim ________________________________________________________ Kim Flint, MTS 408-752-9284 Chromatic Research kflint@chromatic.com http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 00:21:13 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA30143; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 17:44:10 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 17:44:10 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Crossedout@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 17:29:57 EDT To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: re: crackdown. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"8OzZU3.0.Kr6.6w7vr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1326 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 8/26/98 12:35:58 AM Central Daylight Time, msottila@mailbox.syr.edu writes: << As a creator of original music I find nothing wrong with this at all. >> Here's a question, though.... do you own all the rights to your music? If you do, then clearing a sample would probably be relatively easy - I get in touch with you, negotiate with you, and come up with a reasonable exchange. But when there's a record label involved, and they smell the potential for large amounts of money (who knows where the next Puff Daddy is coming from?) they start asking for the moon and stars. When the Beastie Boys made "Paul's Boutique", most of there sample clearance involved calling up the original musicians and saying "hey, can we sample this bit", to which the response was generally "okay, sure. send me a copy". Or "okay, sure, send me a copy and $500." When you go to Warner Brothers and ask for the same bit, they are more likely to quote you "$50,000, and 100% of the publishing"..... quite a bit of differnece. While I don't hold with the Puff Daddy technique of putting new lyrics to old songs, I do think that sampling can be used in amazing ways (see the first two Public Enemy lps, or the aforementioned Beasties lp. ). So I am loathe to say that corporate crackdowns on sampling artists are a good thing. - Bill Crossedout@aol.com From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 00:21:16 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA32103; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 17:56:05 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 17:56:05 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Crossedout@aol.com Message-ID: <203ef7a.35e48202@aol.com> Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 17:45:37 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"hae_l1.0.eS7.s88vr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1327 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 8/26/98 3:57:26 PM Central Daylight Time, Edward_Chang@mail.amsinc.com writes: << What do y'all think about visual artists who use collage-type techniques in their work? For example artists (whose names I won't list here) who use commercial advertisements, national icons, media characters, brand names, etc... as part of a mixed media painting? Or sculpture (I recall one friend who nailed a mangled MacIntosh keyboard into a piece of sculpture and burned it and then exhibited the remains)? Would that person be obligated to ask Apple for permission? I'd think that that's a rare (if ever) occurrence. Is there 'theft of image' here? >> Well, Kim.... here's where the bear shits in the buckwheat... many would argue that these aren't thefts, becuase the "sampled" material isn't ART... it's just a piece of commercial goods*. These same people would scream bloody murder, I'm sure, if I used a sample of one of thier songs, sampled from a disc that I bought, that they sold me. Because music, even if it's sold, is not "product", is not a commercial form, it's always ART, even if it's being manufactured in bulk, shrink-wrapped, and priced to sell. Personally, I look at the collage the same way as the sample recording... did they do something interesting with it, outside of it's original intent, or did they just surround it with parsley and call it a meal? - Bill Crossedout@aol.com From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 00:21:21 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id SAA05998; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 18:19:12 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 18:19:12 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980826215841.00928c44@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 14:58:41 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: RE: Fwd: FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN Resent-Message-ID: <"lYkkd1.0.kw7.oJ8vr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1328 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com It seems you guys are not exactly understanding what copyright law is all about. It's fairly different from things like patents, trademarks, or property ownership. Once you have published a work - made it publicly available - copyright goes into effect. It grants you LIMITED rights over how that work is subsequently used by others. It does not grant you absolute rights. Provisions are made in the law to allow others to reuse portions of that work for a variety of puposes, freely, and without requireing any permission from you, the owner. That's in the law, and has been for a very long time, and is a principle called Fair Use. If you don't like this law, that's fine, go lobby your elected officials to get it changed. I suspect you won't get very far though, because the idea of Fair Use is well developed and has a long history. The point of it is to encourage ongoing discourse and development of ideas and the creation of new works based on those ideas. This is widely applied in visual arts, print, academia, film, journalism, legal casework, and even internet forums. An example of fair use is right in front of you. Stephen used a portion of a published work of Motley's, verbatim, for the purpose of commenting on it. Motley had used another's published work before that, in his post, also verbatim. I'm now "sampling" both of you and reusing your work in this piece that I am about to publish. Somebody will undoubtedly reuse my creative work as a part of subsequent comments. In no case did anyone seek permission from the publisher of the various pieces before doing this. And they don't have to, because of Fair Use. Music is unusual in that Fair Use has not been much of an issue until recently, when sampling became widely available. Now that it is possible, there is a lot of resistance from the big-bucks people. Groups like the major record labels and the RIAA are trying to find ways around Fair Use, so that they can treat published works as property which they absolutely control. According to my understanding of the law, they don't have a right to do that. They do have a right to prevent things like counterfeit and piracy, which are different from Fair Use. That's what Negativland's point is all about, and why they pretty much go out of their way to get themselves sued over the issue. They believe that the issues should be tried in court in full public view, and that the copyright and fair use laws should be applied to music same as anywhere else. Oddly, nobody has dared to sue Negativland in quite a while..hmmm...... Also, this is not just a US issue, as most copyright laws from various countries are similar, and recognized internationally through trade treaties. kim At 01:03 PM 8/26/98 -0700, Stephen P. Goodman wrote: >I have to agree with ol' Motley, who said: > >>Sampling is fine, just be honest about it. Give >> credit to your >> sources and pay for using the original artist's work. > >Bravo! One of my recurring day-mares involves seeing a commercial and >realising that one of my Loops Of The Week is the background for it. At >least I copyright my work! And soon I'll have the first set of 366 >registered with BMI, though if you thought it was a pain to process the >paperwork for a collection of 9 or 10 songs... well! I have to submit >cassettes containing cuts, 30 seconds long each for every loop, for them all >to be protected, if only in theory. Let's face it, I can't afford to police >the airwaves myself, so firms like BMI and ASCAP can do it for me, if to an >extent. > >Frankly, the whole bit with all-sampling pieces, is not much more to me than >the musical equivalent of decoupage that I remember some kids used to do in >Jr. High School, on their lunchboxes. One out of Six that did such business >was actually interested in the Art of it - the rest used others' images >because they couldn't produce them on their own. It would seem to be the >same line I saw between people that can Really Draw, and those who learn to >Draw. There IS a difference. > >There is no kind of defense as far as I'm concerned for stealing other >peoples' work in this way, either. Period. > >Stephen Goodman - It's... The Loop Of The Week! >EarthLight Studios - http://www.earthlight.net/Studios > > > ________________________________________________________ Kim Flint, MTS 408-752-9284 Chromatic Research kflint@chromatic.com http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 00:21:31 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id SAA10372; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 18:29:14 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 18:29:14 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980826220721.00e4fa78@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 15:07:21 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Fwd: FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN Resent-Message-ID: <"cFQuI2.0.uH._R8vr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1329 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 04:24 PM 8/26/98 -0500, Dennis W. Leas wrote: > >You bring up an interesting point. If a producer 'samples' a brand name in a major motion >picture by showing the star using the product, the brand owner typically pays for the >advertising (by prior arrangement, of course) instead of sueing for payment. See any >inconsistency here? > Good example, actually. The film maker does not have to get permission of a product manufacturer to show that product in the film, nor do they have to pay to do so. (Fair Use again....) The only transaction that ever occurs is when the product manufacturer pays the film maker for the privelege of having their product displayed in the film, as a form of advertising. See? the money is going the opposite direction there.... kim ________________________________________________________ Kim Flint, MTS 408-752-9284 Chromatic Research kflint@chromatic.com http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 00:21:41 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA19087; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 19:14:27 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 19:14:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35E49566.BED7E8DC@intcpi.com> Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 19:08:23 -0400 From: "John Price" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Puffyisms and Samplin, etc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"l7koM.0.9D4.xH9vr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1331 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In general, most people could care less if an "artist" or "musician" actually plays an instrument, says something new, breaks molds etc. No one really cares if someone just used samples or actually played the instruments they hear on a groove. And most kids have no clue about the sources of Sampling. Its both beautiful and Sad. Musicians tend to be the only ones who get the attitude of "its ok if u do this or approach it from that sorta ,... perhaps more musical way", etc. So what ??? Puff Daddy is about that quick easy connection/disconnection grooving to the audience and the images he knows very well he can conjure. I would not call Puff daddy a de facto hack - rip off artist. But I also would hessitate to call him a messiah. One could easilly say other great hack rip offs were Elvis, The Beatles, The Stones, The WHO, The Animals, Yardbirds/Jimmy Page, Led Zepp, Clapton, Jeff Beck, &...hell even Mozart in some instances!! For instance, all of the stalwart Black Bluesfolk/early rock-n-roll pioneers they never got a dime in royalties or worse in The Page/Plant Situations the original artists saw whole bars and verses of their stuff with their exact word for word lyric lifted without any mention of them in the credits let alone any thought of compensation. People do need to get paid whether its the artists or the Publisher who holds all the rights. And Fair Use does apply. You cant have total control of anything in this life. But Overall the Rock-n-roll mentality has never been about being original. Its about the collision of cultures and profit in the manipulation of images and reactions that those sounds could conjure. The best any music can ever hope for is an Original Perspective - There aint no New Notes Miles Davis once said. Puff Daddy is good at what he does and is in the very same tradition as the aformentioned "borrowers", although he is functioning and approaching things in a manner that is not the way most people on this list have grown up appreciating and valuing music(s). BTW, Puff Daddy can also write some damn sweet original R&B Ballads and he does a good job as a Bass Player ( Ck out the 1st 2 Mary J Blige Disks ) Puff Daddy was put in the place he's at cuz of what he chooses to do with the sounds he has chosen to lift or moreover, what he can do with what he gets offered up tohim on a royalty sharing platter from the original artists management. The virtuousity he holds comes where he can reintrepret someone elses "Familiar" chart topper or classic jam of yesteryear into modern chart toppers. Jimmy Page & Kashmir is a - prime example of that eagerness of the original artist to be reinterpreted ( Which is very wise ). Page was frothing at the mouth to get that track out cause Puff is ring leader at doin that sorta thang - all guranteed to sell and possibly endear Zep to a new and blank "page" audience. IMHO - Puff Daddy and the like are yet another example one of those logical "next steps" along the breakdown in the importance the general public places on Music and Musicianship/Virtuosity. Eno was dead on in that wired interview where he talks about how unimportant music is to us anymore. The buzz we used to get from Music we get elsewhere now in different contexts that are more superficial than firmrooting or entrenching. But what has not changed is that its still the song that people look to over and over again. But in a late 90's scenario the song is deeply connected with the familiar image you or someone else creates around it. Tell me bout da Benjamin's baby !. Most Loop Folk or other "serious thinker musician types" cringe at the thought of such enormous displays of Ego - Cash - Fashion and brash disregard for musical sensitivity and respect ( as they view respect and original music from their own dug in and entrenched perspectives ). What I think is really interesting about the whole "lift a whole song phenom" is when ya think about the publishing on the Puffed Stuff of this decade. Who's gonna wanna play songs that are covers of a cover & or a sample of another set of song pieces 20 yrs from now ?? Termninator X is still missing :) JP trevor bajus, digital surgeon wrote: > You know, I find it amusing that hack rip-off artists like Puff Combs have no > problems with this sort of stuff, but people who use samples in a creative way, > altering the intent, content, and concept of the samples, get crushed. > > Besides, there are few things as funny as listening to Casey Casem cussing a blue > streak about the insignificance of U2. > > Terminator X, where are you? > > trev From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 00:21:49 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA24498; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 19:53:09 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 19:53:09 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: RE: Fwd: FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 16:35:21 -0700 Message-ID: <001001bdd14a$321899a0$9f66fea9@stepheng> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19980826215841.00928c44@pop.chromatic.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"v8-tJ2.0.Gk5.Bv9vr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1332 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Kim Flint [mailto:kflint@chromatic.com] put forth: > An example of fair use is right in front of you. Stephen used > a portion of a published work of Motley's, verbatim, for the purpose of > commenting on it. Motley had used another's published work before that, in his > post, also verbatim. I'm now "sampling" both of you and reusing your > work... Somebody will undoubtedly reuse my creative work > as a part of subsequent comments. In no case did anyone seek > permission from the publisher of the various pieces before doing this. And > they don't have to, because of Fair Use. I think that's a real stretch though, and not a good example. For instance, none of us are at any point contracted to produce anything for this newsletter, and as a consequence the Fair Use principle only applies to the free exchange here. It can be easily argued that the purpose of inclusion of each other's writings is to reply to it in a concise and contextually accurate manner, to say nothing of being just understood. On the other hand, If someone went and got paid to perform a piece whereby sections of this newsletter were read aloud, that would muddy up this argument a good deal. And this distinction, I think, is the basic seed of the sampling problem with respect to copyright. > Music is unusual in that Fair Use has not been much of an issue until > recently, when sampling became widely available. Now that it > is possible, there is a lot of resistance from the big-bucks people. I think it is not a matter of "big bucks vs. us" by any stretch of the imagination. The aspect of companies with big bucks being able to afford long, drawn-out court cases is probably more the deciding element, to say nothing of visibility of the process. I as a composer find it incredibly encouraging to know that I indeed do have the same rights on this level as, say, WB. But at the same time, another mentioned by someone else was intriguing to me, and may reveal a core distinction in the way sectors of this conflict think of Their Situation. However, modification in any way of an original signal or image or anything else does Not make that modified result an Original Work. It is more a "treatment" than that, insofar as the modified item was more than just an element of the result. Here's a hopefully better example. I take Robert Plant's "meh-meh-meh-meh-meh-meh..." from the "Dazed and Confused" track from Zep's live album, run it through a flange, a fuzz box, my Quadraverb, and record it into CoolEdit Pro, whereby I reverse it, now rendering it nearly unrecognizable to all but the most adept. I assign several seconds of this result to one of the RAM banks on my sound card, and use it in several compositions, which I post on the Internet, and put on a CD for sale. Everything is still fairly grey in this regard, all the way up until the point where money changes hands, and (even more emphatically) I make a PROFIT from the work. At this point, I owe the folks who own that recording of "Dazed and Confused", at least. This doesn't even go into performance rights. By the way, this one on getting permission. A fellow who's been in the publishing biz here is one of my PC clients, and early on, when I was looking for the permission to use a monologue from an old film for inclusion on a track of mine, told me to not just go for the right to use it in the recording, but get the performance rights at the same time. Spoken word recordings, and most film soundtracks, are not handled by the same kind of honchos as recorded music. Some of this stuff is actually exchanged on the basis of a handshake, and a combination "thanks for asking" from the owner, and acknowledgement of the kind permission to use it, from the artist. It turned out that the performance rights were gratis in my case, mainly because I asked about them at the time, so they didn't have to write up any more paperwork. Pretty informal in comparison with what I'd expected. And a lot less scary too! Stephen Goodman - It's... The Loop Of The Week! EarthLight Studios - http://www.earthlight.net/Studios From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 00:21:53 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id UAA29136; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 20:29:12 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 20:29:12 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 20:29:25 -0400 From: Spiros Kassimis Subject: Re:Unsubscribe To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Message-id: <35E4A865.46977131@internetmci.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <2.2.32.19980826075328.0070f164@pop.chromatic.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"2ITG5.0.Jz6.-SAvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1333 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Take me of this frigin''' list. I have replied unsubscribe about four godamn times and it never happens. Take me offffffff!! NOWWWWW!!!!!!! Kim Flint wrote: > At 01:37 AM 8/26/98 -0500, mark sottilaro wrote: > >As a creator of original music I find nothing wrong with this at all. > > > > I used that argument in 1986, and I have not granted you permission to use > it. You will be hearing from my crack legal team shortly! > > But really, I think you would have a difficult time arguing that the > zillions of recordings being made in the numerous collage-based genres, > using samples, are all unoriginal. Negativland makes a very good point about > the Fair Use principles of copyright law, and the rights granted therein. > Fair Use has always been a part of the law, but there are not many precedent > cases available to define it very well. So the situation is a bit vague, > there aren't any solid legal guidelines to follow, and now advances in > digital media are pushing the issue to a head. I would imagine that with big > record companies and the RIAA aggressively threatening people with lawsuits > to make them give up their fair use rights, it won't be long before we see > more of this being tried in the courts. > > Anyway, Negativland convinced me of all this several years ago. They have > been making the fair use case quite eloquently for many, many years, and I'd > suggest checking out what they have to say before making reactionary > statements. Most people don't have a very good grasp on what copyright law > is all about, even when they think they do (like confusing copyright with > property rights), and even fewer know what Fair Use is. It's a worthwhile > thing to learn, rather than assume.... > > Negativland is also a really cool experimental-noise-found sound music > group, not to mention master media artists. Nobody writes press releases as > well as they do! they've turned this whole Fair Use crusade into a media art > project in and of itself, which is quite fun to follow. Their book "Fair > Use: the Story of the Letter U and the Numeral 2" is geat, chronicling their > experiences getting almost sued off the planet by U2, Casey Casem, and > Island Records, because of a sample on a record. (you might never get to > hear the original version, but the song is extremely funny....) Of course > that is the same U2 that samples local news broadcasts and tv shows during > their stadium concerts, and manipulates them on their giant video screen, > without seeking permission from the local tv stations. Apparently their > lawyers lack the gene for Irony. > > Negativland is here, they can speak for themselves just fine: > http://www.negativland.com/ > > kim > _________________________________________________________ > Kim Flint, MTS kflint@chromatic.com > Chromatic Research 408-752-9284 > http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 00:21:56 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id UAA31428; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 20:45:00 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 20:45:00 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980827004046.00995124@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 17:40:46 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re:Unsubscribe Resent-Message-ID: <"GJOXG3.0.RT7.lhAvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1334 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 08:29 PM 8/26/98 -0400, Spiros Kassimis wrote: >Take me of this frigin''' list. I have replied unsubscribe about four godamn >times and it never happens. Take me offffffff!! NOWWWWW!!!!!!! > wow! one more outburst like that and you go into the Permanently Subscribed Penalty Box for a year, or at least until you learn to behave nicely! kim (that's a joke BTW. the penalty box doesn't really exist......yet.....;-) ________________________________________________________ Kim Flint, MTS 408-752-9284 Chromatic Research kflint@chromatic.com http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 00:22:00 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id VAA07554; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 21:50:39 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 21:50:39 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35E4BAEF.62025A5F@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 18:48:36 -0700 From: Scott Archambault Reply-To: metaphor@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: msottila@mailbox.syr.edu CC: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Digitech Space Station..how much? References: <40b2adc7.35e36037@aol.com> <35E3AF2F.6060D0CB@mailbox.syr.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xyWhr1.0.Qi1.YeBvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1335 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I bought mine from Musician's Friend for $199 (I know it's not the lowest price, but I couldn't find it anywhere else. Guitar Center doesn't even carry it.) mark sottilaro wrote: > What's the lowest anyone's purchased the Digitech Space Station (XP300) for? From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 00:21:39 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id SAA15524; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 18:55:24 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 18:55:24 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <000901bdd15c$e3221520$6bfc96d1@default> Reply-To: "John Stuart" From: "John Stuart" To: Subject: subscribe Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 18:49:09 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01BDD122.35751240" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"T0Ik03.0.uX3.w29vr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1330 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com
subscribe
From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 00:22:01 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id WAA09369; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 22:04:37 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 22:04:37 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Crossedout@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 21:57:52 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"VApbH3.0.P52.erBvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1336 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 8/26/98 6:53:11 PM Central Daylight Time, sgoodman@earthlight.net writes: << I as a composer find it incredibly encouraging to know that I indeed do have the same rights on this level as, say, WB. >> Having the same rights as WB and being able to enjoy the fruits of those rights are not the same thing. If push comes to shove, do you have the money to fight a protracted legal battle to defend yourself in a rights dispute against, for example, WB? An extreme example, but one that artists find themselves in all too often. Take a look at Negativlands' legal battles, or John Oswald's Plunderphonics problems, or (in a somewhat different vein, but similar result) Jello Biafra and Alternative Tentacles' legal disputes. The Black Panthers used to say that "all power comes from the barrel of a gun"... these days it more like "all power comes out of the fattest wallet". - Bill Crossedout@aol.com From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 00:22:05 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id WAA10035; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 22:09:48 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 22:09:48 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: floyd@voicenet.com Date: 27 Aug 1998 02:01:33 -0000 Message-ID: <19980827020133.12828.qmail@unix01.voicenet.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Problem noise from EDP Resent-Message-ID: <"olGty2.0.dB2.HuBvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1337 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com This little quirk in my EDP has been starting to bug me.... It's running Loop3, v5.0. When I hold the record button long enough to clear the current loop it puts out a noticeable pop, or thump. Is there some way to fix this ? From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 00:22:10 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id XAA18419; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 23:20:38 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 23:20:38 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: zoo.e-z.net: Host van-112.e-z.net [206.129.248.74] claimed to be DOUGPIER Message-ID: <35E4CFC6.1F13@e-z.net> Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 20:17:26 -0700 From: doug pieren Reply-To: quail@e-z.net Organization: quail teeth productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: 2nd loopers cd? References: <199808240334.UAA25660@stork.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-C52l2.0.tM4.9-Cvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1338 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Finley Sound Design wrote: > > >anyone out there have any idea when this sucker may materialize? > > Within a month the finished product should be in my hands. Shortly after > that contributors will have their copies. > > Matt > > __________________________________ > Matthew F. McCabe > Finley Sound Design > http://www.finleysound.com Hi Matt - Do I get a copy for my contract consultation? If so, please send it to : Doug Pieren 6912 NE 139th Street, Vancouver, WA 98686 Thanks, Doug From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 00:22:16 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id AAA28345; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 00:45:02 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 00:45:02 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: RE: FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 21:24:45 -0700 Message-ID: <000001bdd172$a06cbe40$e03fdacf@stepheng> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Resent-Message-ID: <"0MhyG1.0.wf6.V8Evr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1339 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Crossedout@aol.com [mailto:Crossedout@aol.com] asked: > If push comes to shove, do you have the money to fight a > protracted legal > battle to defend yourself in a rights dispute against, for > example, WB? Since I prefer to create my own sounds I doubt whether I have much to fear in terms of rights disputes. I don't think that anyone should be able to freely sample anyone else's work without some form of permission or compensation. Even WB has had to comply on this level, actually. One fine example that foreshadowed this very controversy happened with "My Life In The Bush With Ghosts", a Brian Eno/David Byrne collaboration that I think enough of us remember from 1980. Sire Records, in case one forgets, is a sublabel of Warner Bros. They had to reissue the album, minus a few tracks, which had included taped bits used without permission. Where did anyone develop the idea that recording someone else's work for free was permissible or even acceptable? It seems that, to some of us, there's no discussion necessary, while to the rest we might seem like The Establishment or something. How many of us here rely upon the recordings of others in this regard to produce their work, and how many roll their own? Such an answer might be illuminating. :) Stephen Goodman - It's... The Loop Of The Week! EarthLight Studios - http://www.earthlight.net/Studios From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 00:22:18 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id AAA28031; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 00:42:00 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 00:42:00 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19980827043155.00a32cac@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: gls@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 23:31:55 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Grover Sheffield Subject: Re: Sampling-dilemma (no solution offered here). Resent-Message-ID: <"scnGq1.0.Sj6.OAEvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1340 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I'm not familiar with Negativeland or other sampling artists, but I like Thomas' thoughts about sampling and using an artist's work without changing the spirit, groove and sound of that artist representing copyright infringement. Grover . At 03:45 PM 8/26/98 +0200, you wrote: >It seems to me that SOUND is the keyword here. Not just the sound of the instrument but the groove/feel , the spirit. The orginality of your playing. If you sample a couple of bars "Funky Drummer" ,the James Brown tune, you are taking the spirit ,groove and sound of that particular drummer and using it to boost your own thing. This is , in my opinion , a copyright infringement. If you add reverb or chorus to the sample you`re still using HIS thing. > >But if you alter the sound/feel/groove of the sample? If you chop the beat up , move the bits around and speed it up to make a jungle groove? Then you`ve moved away from the drummer`s own creation and used it to make your own. You have simply used his stuff as >starting point , like a soundsource. Just like you might have used a mdid channel 10 on a GM machine. Only you`re not using individual drumsounds , you`re using individual pieces of drumgrooves. > >A "sample-ologist" might be able to trace this "jungle-groove" you made , and tell that it`s from "Funky Drummer" and sue your ass off. But this means that the sound itself is copyrighted. That the combination of mic-placement , the room in the studio , the eq`ing , the outboard effects and the drums that produced the sound are "owned" by James Brown. If this is true then the drummer who played the beat can never record it again under the same sircumstances. If he got the same sound he did on Brown`s record he would be stealing from "da man". > >So I think the complex problem of "copyright" should be approached in a intuitive way. Not with spectral analyses or technical "back tracing" but with a musical approach. If the samples are merely building blocks , and not complete structures in the musical piece then I think it`s OK. > >Anyways , I see now that the point I was building up to has eluded me. I`m not really shure what I`m trying to say here...........Just airing my thoughts on the subject. > >Now if you guys would just pretend to discuss my post for a couple of days maybe I wouldn`t feel so darn dumb. :-) > >Yours , Thomas W > >Feel free to check out my web-site: >http://www.geocities.com/Eureka/Promenade/1628/ > > > From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 00:22:25 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id BAA00666; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 01:26:14 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 01:26:14 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980827050818.0097a544@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 22:08:18 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: RE: Fwd: FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN Resent-Message-ID: <"0Nm5e1.0.Em7.YcEvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1341 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 04:35 PM 8/26/98 -0700, you wrote: >Kim Flint [mailto:kflint@chromatic.com] put forth: > >> An example of fair use is right in front of you. Stephen used >> a portion of a published work of Motley's, verbatim, for the purpose of >> commenting on it. Motley had used another's published work before that, >in his >> post, also verbatim. I'm now "sampling" both of you and reusing your >> work... Somebody will undoubtedly reuse my creative work >> as a part of subsequent comments. In no case did anyone seek >> permission from the publisher of the various pieces before doing this. And >> they don't have to, because of Fair Use. > >I think that's a real stretch though, and not a good example. For instance, >none of us are at any point contracted to produce anything for this >newsletter, and as a consequence the Fair Use principle only applies to the >free exchange here. It can be easily argued that the purpose of inclusion >of each other's writings is to reply to it in a concise and contextually >accurate manner, to say nothing of being just understood. Well, first off, contractors practically never have rights to their work. That's usually stipulated in the contract. So if anyone were to be contracted to post here, the copyright would belong to the one granting the contract, not the author. And anyway, copyright is not necessarily about money. When you post something on the internet, you are indeed publishing your work, copyright you. Whether money is involved or not doesn't matter, there is still a copyright. And as such, all rules of copyright and fair use still apply. You do have limited rights to control how that work is used by someone else. It doesn't matter if money is involved or not. There are many other reasons why you might want to control the reproduction of your work besides money.... I brought up this example, and I think it is a good one, because it shows how we are involved in copyright and fair use all of the time. And in this case we take it completely for granted, and don't see any problem with others using portions of our work in order to add to the flow of ideas and create a new work. It's an example of fair use that we accept without much question, even when we totally disagree with the way our creations are sometimes used by others. So long as they don't take the whole thing, put their name at the top in place of yours, and reproduce it somewhere else, we are fine with this. So how come when the same thing is done with music, you don't think the same rules and laws apply? They apply in every other type of media. Using a portion of one work in the process of creating a new work is an acceptable and common practice, so long as the requirements in the Fair Use portion of the copyright laws are met. Why should music be any different than anything else? I personally fail to see the distinction. > >On the other hand, If someone went and got paid to perform a piece whereby >sections of this newsletter were read aloud, that would muddy up this >argument a good deal. And this distinction, I think, is the basic seed of >the sampling problem with respect to copyright. Your copyright protects you if the person reuses the published work exactly as you published it, without creating an original work in the process. Fair use provides a number of tests to legally determine whether or not this is the case. You would have to prove in court that this use fails those tests. (for example, you would have to prove that your ability to earn from your work was reduced by this particular reuse, and you would likely have to show by how much. Or you would have to prove that your work was not being used as the basis for some commentary, parody, etc.) If the person does meet the tests for fair use of your work in the creation of a new work, and they get paid for it, they don't owe you anything. That's the law, and there is a large body of legal theory to support and justify that. This is a key point about copyright that differs from things like patents, trademarks, or property, which a lot of people fail to understand. The reason this part of copyright law exists is specifically to encourage the ongoing discussion of ideas and creation of new works, in other words, limiting some of the copyright holder's rights in order to further the common good. It's the balancing part of the law, there to prevent some entity from stifling further creative developments by refusing to allow reuse of a particular published work or making it unreasonably expensive. (That's what Negativland is arguing that the RIAA is doing.) For example, if someone were to quote my words here for a magazine article, which they they sell to a mazazine, who sells it to subscribers with paid advertisements surrounding it, all for nice profits, I get nothing. My words as a supporting bit in an article are being reused so that the author can make some point, and that's fair use. This might bother me, but that's too bad. I can't prevent him from writing or selling the article, and I can't claim any of the profit. (happens every day, witness the current trend for print news to quote usenet posts in all manner of news articles...) However, if the person takes my post, prints it out directly, and sells that in its entirety to the magazine with no other creative work on his part, that's theft. That's when copyright comes into play, and that's when I can go after him and the magazine to get the money I'm owed. Again, I encourage you to actually read the Fair Use clauses, read some of the supporting case work, read up on copyright law, and the various legal arguments surrounding it. It's a complicated subject, easily confused with patent and trademark law, and if you are going to be involved in copyrighting things, you would be wise to have a thorough understanding of what that means. Negativland has the fair use clauses reprinted on their website, while you are there you can actually read their arguments too. They're the reason we're even discussing this (another testament to their skill at media art...) so you might as well see what they have to say. (and I'm not really interested in restating their arguments for them anymore, when they are easily available on their website.) AFTER you have gained some of this knowledge, THEN form opinions and comment. I know it's easy to get that backwards sometimes. >Here's a hopefully better example. I take Robert Plant's >"meh-meh-meh-meh-meh-meh..." from the "Dazed and Confused" track from Zep's >live album, run it through a flange, a fuzz box, my Quadraverb, and record >it into CoolEdit Pro, whereby I reverse it, now rendering it nearly >unrecognizable to all but the most adept. I assign several seconds of this >result to one of the RAM banks on my sound card, and use it in several >compositions, which I post on the Internet, and put on a CD for sale. > >Everything is still fairly grey in this regard, all the way up until the >point where money changes hands, and (even more emphatically) I make a >PROFIT from the work. At this point, I owe the folks who own that recording >of "Dazed and Confused", at least. Actually, I don't think that's true, not according to the principles of fair use anyway. Your usage here would not be infringing on Led Zeppelin's ability to earn money from their published work "Dazed and Confused", and they would hardly be able to prove that anybody in the marketplace would be confused into thinking that your recording was the Led Zeppelin one and buy yours by mistake. When Roy Orbison sued 2 Live Crew for something like this, Roy lost. Unfortunately, that's about the only supporting case out there, so there isn't much precedent available to define the sampling issue better. Without it getting a hearing in the courts, we're left with a lot of vague guidelines. That's why I support Negativland's quest to get themselves sued. Secondly, for copyright, it doesn't matter if you are making a profit or not. It only matters if you publish. The act of publishing, even for no money in return, can have a huge effect on someone else's ability to earn from their work if you are violating their rights. So if you beleive that sampling is a violation of the rights of the artist that recorded it, then by putting this on the internet and selling CD's with it, you have violated Led Zeppelin's right's to this work (by your argument). How about if I call their record company in the morning and let them decide? Got a spare $50,000? :-) kim ________________________________________________________ Kim Flint, MTS 408-752-9284 Chromatic Research kflint@chromatic.com http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 00:22:37 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id BAA03129; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 01:53:33 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 01:53:33 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Nemoguitt@aol.com Message-ID: <9f7a4f01.35e4f0f0@aol.com> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 01:38:55 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"7wjJx.0.7T.u4Fvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1342 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com last week, i asked a question regarding my instrument set-up and problems i was having getting my equipment to work, in my mind this was a valid question and the hope was there for some guidence....there was not one response....yet, if it is legal or really art to play "tied to the whipping post" an octive lower and inverted and backwards at my local "showcase", this merits a large number of posts....i am truely confused....perhaps i should go into a deeper lurking mode....michael From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 00:22:38 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id CAA06636; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 02:34:21 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 02:34:21 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: RE: Fwd: FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 23:27:07 -0700 Message-ID: <000101bdd183$b8345400$e03fdacf@stepheng> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19980827050818.0097a544@pop.chromatic.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"dDL1g3.0.ZS1.YnFvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1343 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Sounds like a bunch of folks wrapping themselves in the term Fair Use, as if, once someone else creates an original work, anyone has the right to use it as they see fit, as if all defaults to the public domain, as a result of publishing. If this newsletter is mainly populated by people who sample for the content of their material, it'd be a surprise, as I've seen enough informed opinions on the nature of performance to count this newsletter second to Elephant Talk. How anyone can pretend that gratis use of material someone else created (and this is a keyword) is justifiable is beyond me, completely. If the source is public domain, that's fine. Otherwise, it's just a softening of that word noone likes to hear, Theft. Oh, excuse me, "borrowing without checking". Putting notices on ones products, when they contain samples, modified from the source or not, of someone elses work, is just theft with excuses. How is that supposed to protect anyone from prosecution for copyright infringement? > And anyway, copyright is not necessarily about money. It is when someone makes money using your material without permission. > So long as they don't take the > whole thing, put > their name at the top in place of yours, and reproduce it > somewhere else, we > are fine with this. How can it be possible that using a section of as opposed to an entire work exempts one from copyright law? It's still an unsupportable argument, and the noise made by the sampling community-at-large still smacks of an airy justification for being caught with their hands in the jar, as if "the jar was open! I smelled the cookies!" is an excuse. > It's the balancing part of the law, there to prevent some > entity from stifling further creative developments by > refusing to allow > reuse of a particular published work or making it > unreasonably expensive. > (That's what Negativland is arguing that the RIAA is doing.) Like I said. This is beginning to smell like the PC vs Mac argument, a highly-developed (though only sporadically active) form of intellectual masturbation. So that's all for now, and I'm not Lowell Thomas. Stephen Goodman - It's... The Loop Of The Week! EarthLight Studios - http://www.earthlight.net/Studios From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 00:22:39 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id CAA07857; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 02:48:23 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 02:48:23 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: From: Jamie Lack To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Sampling and ownership Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:42:06 +1000 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"MECf-3.0.qo1.M_Fvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1344 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com It seems from the discussion so far that a few people on this list have trouble viewing this topic from shoes other than their own. Stephen Goodman wrote: > > > >Where did anyone develop the idea that recording someone > >else's work for > >free was permissible or even acceptable? It seems that, to > >some of us, > >there's no discussion necessary, while to the rest we might > >seem like The > >Establishment or something. How many of us here rely upon > >the recordings of > >others in this regard to produce their work, and how many > >roll their own? > >Such an answer might be illuminating. :) > > > >Stephen Goodman - It's... The Loop Of The Week! > >EarthLight Studios - http://www.earthlight.net/Studios > > I guess the answer lies in the fact that music is all things to all people, really. Just like many other forms of entertainment or amusement. What may be a very important work for one person can mean very little to another. I think realising that your personal expectations must stop the moment you move outside of yourself is a key element of understanding. I have a small quiz for some of you to answer. Not one person lives in complete isolation. There is always something to teach us, inspire us, hurt us, be friendly to us. Every time you learn something, or have a thought or revelation, chances are it was because of something else you have done beforehand. I am not including subjective claims of "Ethereal" type of information channeling here, but even then it is not yours. So really there is very little that belongs to the self, and all of the hard work is just polishing. How do you feel about your debts to others then. Your teachers, parents, what have you taken from them and used, what should you give them back? The musicians and artists who have inspired you, what do you really owe them? The people who produced your favourite music toys? Do you in consideration think that the money you paid was a fair exchange? The reason that I have brought this up is that often I get an uncomfortable feeling, which passes briefly, that I really owe a lot to those that have gone before me, and to those who support me. After that, a lot of the issues with "ownership" don't seem as important to me. So I really don't see much of a problem with people sampling\taking\stealing etc, because I know that nobody else can do what I can like I can, and who am I to force\publish my work on people, in the hope of making a buck, and then restrict what they can do with what I gave them.... I appreciate it when people aren't so tight about their creations, and let it go around for everyone... I find that I can understand the work better. What else is it all for? Jamie, who really doesn't care, but does. From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 01:02:54 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id DAA13828; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 03:51:45 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 03:51:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <000e01bdd18e$257aadc0$8a0a4382@hovard> From: "Thomas Whni" To: Subject: collage (was:FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 09:41:46 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"BHTMx2.0.v93.hvGvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1346 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hi Edward , I don`t think collage techniques could be regarded as theft , because you are not stealing/using the product but the IMAGE of it. You are using pictures of it. Or in the case of that torched Mac-keyboard , Mac`s product lies in the performance of the machine the technology , the reliability etc. That artist wasn`t using Macintosh to boost his own similar product. At least thats what I think......... Yours , Thomas Feel free to check out my web-site: http://www.geocities.com/Eureka/Promenade/1628/ > > >What do y'all think about visual artists who use collage-type techniques in >their work? For example artists (whose names I won't list here) who use >commercial advertisements, national icons, media characters, brand names, >etc... as part of a mixed media painting? Or sculpture (I recall one >friend who nailed a mangled MacIntosh keyboard into a piece of sculpture >and burned it and then exhibited the remains)? Would that person be >obligated to ask Apple for permission? I'd think that that's a rare (if >ever) occurrence. Is there 'theft of image' here? > > > > >Kim Flint on 08/26/98 03:53:28 AM > >Please respond to Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > >To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >cc: (bcc: Edward Chang/AMS/AMSINC) >Subject: Re: Fwd: FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN > > > > >At 01:37 AM 8/26/98 -0500, mark sottilaro wrote: >>As a creator of original music I find nothing wrong with this at all. >> > >I used that argument in 1986, and I have not granted you permission to use >it. You will be hearing from my crack legal team shortly! > > >But really, I think you would have a difficult time arguing that the >zillions of recordings being made in the numerous collage-based genres, >using samples, are all unoriginal. Negativland makes a very good point >about >the Fair Use principles of copyright law, and the rights granted therein. >Fair Use has always been a part of the law, but there are not many >precedent >cases available to define it very well. So the situation is a bit vague, >there aren't any solid legal guidelines to follow, and now advances in >digital media are pushing the issue to a head. I would imagine that with >big >record companies and the RIAA aggressively threatening people with lawsuits >to make them give up their fair use rights, it won't be long before we see >more of this being tried in the courts. > >Anyway, Negativland convinced me of all this several years ago. They have >been making the fair use case quite eloquently for many, many years, and >I'd >suggest checking out what they have to say before making reactionary >statements. Most people don't have a very good grasp on what copyright law >is all about, even when they think they do (like confusing copyright with >property rights), and even fewer know what Fair Use is. It's a worthwhile >thing to learn, rather than assume.... > >Negativland is also a really cool experimental-noise-found sound music >group, not to mention master media artists. Nobody writes press releases as >well as they do! they've turned this whole Fair Use crusade into a media >art >project in and of itself, which is quite fun to follow. Their book "Fair >Use: the Story of the Letter U and the Numeral 2" is geat, chronicling >their >experiences getting almost sued off the planet by U2, Casey Casem, and >Island Records, because of a sample on a record. (you might never get to >hear the original version, but the song is extremely funny....) Of course >that is the same U2 that samples local news broadcasts and tv shows during >their stadium concerts, and manipulates them on their giant video screen, >without seeking permission from the local tv stations. Apparently their >lawyers lack the gene for Irony. > >Negativland is here, they can speak for themselves just fine: >http://www.negativland.com/ > >kim >_________________________________________________________ >Kim Flint, MTS kflint@chromatic.com >Chromatic Research 408-752-9284 >http://www.chromatic.com > > > > > > > From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 01:02:50 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id DAA13237; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 03:45:56 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 03:45:56 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35E5105C.374B@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 00:52:59 -0700 From: Andre LaFosse Reply-To: altruist@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Ethics of sampling References: <000101bdd183$b8345400$e03fdacf@stepheng> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"viBgU1.0.043.KsGvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1345 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Stephen P. Goodman wrote: > Sounds like a bunch of folks wrapping themselves in the term Fair Use, as > if, once someone else creates an original work, anyone has the right to use > it as they see fit, as if all defaults to the public domain, as a result of > publishing. >From my point of view, that's really not the gist of the argument. As has been said before, there's a difference between excerpting or referencing part of a work as opposed to out-and-out ripping off the entire work as one's own. > If this newsletter is mainly populated by people who sample for the content > of their material, it'd be a surprise, as I've seen enough informed opinions > on the nature of performance to count this newsletter second to Elephant > Talk. I personally don't use samples of other people's work (except for the factory-sampled individual note sounds in my store-bought sample-playback sound modules), and for me personally I don't like the idea of sampling other people's music in my own. At the same time, some of my very favorite albums are from the electronic/hip-hop realm and are literally bursting at the seams with sometimes hundreds of samples of other people's work. So I vehemently dispute the notion that a person has to make a practice of sampling other people's material in order to be able to personally agree with Negativland's argument for fair use. My own lack of interest in sampling other people's music has nothing to do with the legal issue; it has to do with personal creative issues that I hold only myself accountable for. > How anyone can pretend that gratis use of material someone else > created (and this is a keyword) is justifiable is beyond me, completely. If > the source is public domain, that's fine. Otherwise, it's just a softening > of that word noone likes to hear, Theft. Oh, excuse me, "borrowing without > checking". One of the interesting things that the whole "ethics of sampling" debate argument always tends to bring up is the fact that "borrowing" from other pieces of music happens all the time, and has happened for thousands of years. It's pretty well-known and accepted in all sorts of musics; but when it actually happens in a manner as direct as literally recording the original source of inspiration, suddenly it's a different matter. Here's a couple of examples using everyone's favorite looper-at-large (/sarcasm). There's a tune on the David Sylvian/Robert Fripp album called "Brightness Falls." Now, listen to the opening guitar riff in that tune, and then listen to the opening guitar riff in the Hendrix tune "Foxy Lady." To say that there's a distinct similarity is a mammoth understatement. Yet the writing credits for the music of "Brightness Falls" lists only Fripp, Sylvian, and Trey Gunn. Go back about 20 years and listen to the King Crimson album "In The Wake of Poseidon." There's a 5/4 phrase in the song "The Devil's Triangle" which is lifted directly from a movement of Holst's "The Planets." But there's no Holst listing in the writing credits... > Putting notices on ones products, when they contain samples, modified from > the source or not, of someone elses work, is just theft with excuses. How > is that supposed to protect anyone from prosecution for copyright > infringement? Fripp didn't put any notices on either of the two examples above -- he doesn't even make excuses for his theft!. By your own argument, Fripp deserves to be sued by the Hendrix estate for theft of Jimi's work. You could conceivably extend the logic even further, and argue that Fripp deserves to sue every one of his fans who fall under the category of "mild-mannered guitarist who creates ambient electronic music with real-time looping (particularly with an e-bow and/or the New Standard Tuning)" for ripping off his "original" Frippertronics idea. Then Eno could sue Fripp for taking an idea he showed him and slapping his own moniker on it, and Terry Riley could sue the rest of them. The possibilities could go on and on, right up until the inevitable Puff Daddy remix of "21st Century Schizoid Man," replete with Saturday Night Live appearance featuring Fripp and a 20-piece big band. Just where do you draw the line between influence and theft? It seems overly simplistic and unfair to relegate theft wholly to the realm of anybody who's using a sampler, as there are myriad examples of non-sample-based works that are pale-faced rip-offs, as well as many sample-based works that recontextualize their component elements into unrecognizably different forms, to the extent that no one (including the original artists sampled) would ever recognize or associate the source with the final product. (This also brings up another point worth noting: ripping off the compositional element of a piece affects only the copyright holder of the composition. But actually ripping off the recording of a piece also affects the holder of the copyright of that recording. In the overwhelming majority of cases, that's *not* the artist who wrote the tune -- it's the person who contractually owns the recording, which is almost always the record label. Certainly offers a different perspective on why the RIAA might pursue sample clearance more vehemently than mere compositional clearance...) I'm not trying to claim right or wrong in this; I'm merely pointing out how there's one set of generally accepted ethics which deals with this sort of compositional "borrowing" of ideas, and a completely different one that tends to get applied to direct sampling of an audio recording. > the noise made by the sampling community-at-large still smacks of an airy > justification for being caught with their hands in the jar, as if "the jar > was open! I smelled the cookies!" is an excuse. Given the trouble Negativland is facing, and the tremendous extent to which record labels have had to go to clear any and all obvious samples in recent years, I'd say that the "jar" is far from open. And I don't think the issue is so much whether or not the sample is recognizable (in fact, the Negativland argument seems to revolve around the idea that it should in fact be a readily recognizable cultural reference), but rather, whether or not referencing a work deserves to be considered in the same light as ripping it off wholesale. > This is beginning to smell like the PC vs Mac argument, a highly-developed > (though only sporadically active) form of intellectual masturbation. Better that than a poorly-developed form of masturbation. Wonder what *that* would smell like... --A From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 02:52:38 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id EAA15789; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 04:12:59 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 04:12:59 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <002101bdd190$faebdfe0$8a0a4382@hovard> From: "Thomas Whni" To: Subject: Re: PUFFyisms Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 10:02:03 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"yBVy32.0.eg3.iCHvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1347 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I see Puff daddy has been mentioned as a bad example of people who use samples exstensively. That his music is not art , that it is theft etc. etc. I think it`s inportant to see the big picture here , and that is what ballpark the artist is playing in. He isn`t shooting for the same goal as musicians like those on this list is. He is comercial by intent. He tries to show the audience a good time and lets that be a guiding aestetic in his creative choices. We can see that in his videos , his clothes and interviews AND his sampling sources. And there is nothing wrong with this. It`s just the opposite of the "weird is great" lines of thought often demonstrated on this list. When he samples a "golden oldie" like the Police it serves his purpose of pleasing the audience. It can be defended from his musical standpoint of giving his audience a good time. And it works; when people hear Summers guitar-riff pumping out from the speakers they might not know what or who it was who played it originally , but they can feel the that they`ve heard it before. The "I`ve heard this before" -factor is important in music , Beethoven knew this , Fripp knows this , and by gum Puff knows it too........... The only point that matters to me is this: did the Police get payed when he used their song? If they did than GO PUFFY GO PUFFY GO PUFFY. :-) Yours , Thomas Feel free to check out my web-site: http://www.geocities.com/Eureka/Promenade/1628/ From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 02:52:42 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id EAA17244; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 04:29:31 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 04:29:31 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <002e01bdd192$e4d16340$8a0a4382@hovard> From: "Thomas Whni" To: Subject: POWER (was:FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 10:15:45 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"xMtOE3.0.p-3.aPHvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1348 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Bill wrote: The Black Panthers used to say that "all power comes from the barrel of a gun"... these days it more like "all power comes out of the fattest wallet". I`ve been thinking about something along those lines. If informaton and exchange of ideas is all that it`s cracked up to be then the Internet is the most important arena for power. And to that effect , people who gets the most hits on their pages are potentially more powerful than anybody , if they only wrote about stuff other than xxx and "these are my hobbies". Right so far? So , who distributes power , then , if not the people who arganize and govern the search-engines?? I realised that for the last year or so I`ve been searching through YAHOO 95% of the time. I just didn`t realize that you have to contact these search engines yourself in order to be put in their registers , so I thought that all search-engines were the same(!). Since the net is so young I think there are a lot of people like me , not conscious about how they use it. Am I beeing paranoid or is the internet a much greater force than anyone can imagine? That its replacing TV as a forum for ideas and thoughts? I`m not counting books and newspapers because they aren`t open for EVERYONE , they have to sell. Yours , Thomas Feel free to check out my web-site: http://www.geocities.com/Eureka/Promenade/1628/ From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 02:52:43 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id EAA17379; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 04:30:35 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 04:30:35 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <004501bdd193$ea4c2b60$8a0a4382@hovard> From: "Thomas Whni" To: Subject: Re: FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 10:21:43 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"bGJ1U3.0.984.PWHvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1349 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >last week, i asked a question regarding my instrument set-up and problems i >was having getting my equipment to work, in my mind this was a valid question >and the hope was there for some guidence....there was not one response....yet, >if it is legal or really art to play "tied to the whipping post" an octive >lower and inverted and backwards at my local "showcase", this merits a large >number of posts....i am truely confused....perhaps i should go into a deeper >lurking mode....michael I wish I could help ya , pal , but I have no solution to what you asked for. My only advice is this: One in a while , play an old Strat through an old Fender-amp once in a while to stay in touch with your fingers. Intrigued , huh??? -The Enigma From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 01:29:09 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA26284; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:52:10 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:52:10 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 04:31:26 -0400 Subject: intro. Message-ID: <19980827.044033.8526.2.gsg@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-5,8-9,12-24 From: gsg@juno.com (Geoff S Gersh) Resent-Message-ID: <"8STz31.0.bB6._CTvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1381 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com hello loopers.... my name is Geoff Gersh, im new to the list. Im based in the NYC area...Yonkers to be exact. Im a guitar player who likes to play around with a looping device or two....my main toys being the Oberheim Echoplex, as well as DOD 1,2 and 4 second delay pedals. I play with a group called Straylight. We are an ambient-avant-world music improv. trio that performs mostly in NYC, as well as upstate NY on occasion. We'll be at the Knitting Factory Aug 31 in the Alterknit at 9 and 11pm We'll also be in Philly Sept. 19 at the 3rd Street Gallery(ithink) ask trevor about us...he's seen us zillions of times!! ;) i look forward to talking to everyone... geoff g. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 03:06:50 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id FAA22501; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 05:58:50 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 05:58:50 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000101bdd183$b8345400$e03fdacf@stepheng> References: <2.2.32.19980827050818.0097a544@pop.chromatic.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 02:20:33 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: RE: Fwd: FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN Resent-Message-ID: <"tSdz23.0.aP5.EpIvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1350 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 11:27 PM -0700 8/26/98, Stephen P. Goodman wrote: >Sounds like a bunch of folks wrapping themselves in the term Fair Use, as >if, once someone else creates an original work, anyone has the right to use >it as they see fit, as if all defaults to the public domain, as a result of >publishing. well Stephen, you still don't seem to understand what Fair Use is. But you are absolutely right, I am completely wrapping myself in the principle of Fair Use, which is a well established legal concept in use all over the world. So, I challenge you to unwrap me! Except this time, try using things like evidence, references, actual legal theories, credible, substantiated arguments, the actual law as written, consistent logic, etc. You know - actually research what you are saying before you say it. So far, all I've gotten from you boils down to "I don't like it, so it's bad." But there's not been any substance underlying your opinion. I'd love to hear a well-reasoned, non-emotional argument based in actual law and legal theory for why Negativland's (and my) interpretation of the copyright laws is incorrect, and proving your point that sampling is theft. Up to it? And sorry if this is boring the crap out of the rest of you. Drives me nuts when people state their opinions as facts and then try to use them as arguments....Plus debating this is like arguing with myself circa 1985, so it's sort of fun. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 03:13:13 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id FAA22499; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 05:58:48 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 05:58:48 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19980827020133.12828.qmail@unix01.voicenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 02:45:11 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Problem noise from EDP Resent-Message-ID: <"Qw8QV1.0.sP5.HpIvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1351 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 7:01 PM -0700 8/26/98, floyd@voicenet.com wrote: >This little quirk in my EDP has been starting to bug me.... >It's running Loop3, v5.0. > >When I hold the record button long enough to clear the >current loop it puts out a noticeable pop, or thump. >Is there some way to fix this ? actually, yes, you should be able to fix that. Requires that you actually get into the box, though. There's a trimpot on the PCB, near the left side, by the volume knobs. It's job is to trim a dc offset from a VCA. Sounds like your's is not set right for some reason, which would cause the thump you hear. To set it you need to run one of the built in diagnostic tests. The test basically turns the VCA on and off at about 60Hz, so if there is an offset you can hear the resulting tone in an amplifier. (or see it on a scope, whichever way you like.) While that's going, you set the trimmer until the tone/waveform reaches it's mimimum. To get into the trimmer test, Start the unit while holding the Parameter and Record buttons down. Keep them held while the startup screen goes by, until the display shows all t's. Then let go. Should say 7F. Press parameter so the "Keys" LED is lit, then press Insert to start the trimmer test. Pressing Parameter again will stop it after you set the trimmer. Then you can turn it off and power back up normally. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 03:13:14 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id GAA23261; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 06:08:22 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 06:08:22 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Dizfunkt@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 05:59:04 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Sampling-dilemma (no solution offered here). Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"VOrMj3.0.gW5.QuIvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1352 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 98-08-27 00:42:06 EDT, you write: << It seems to me that SOUND is the keyword here. Not just the sound of the instrument but the groove/feel , the spirit. The orginality of your playing. If you sample a couple of bars "Funky Drummer" ,the James Brown tune, you are taking the spirit ,groove and sound of that particular drummer and using it to boost your own thing. This is , in my opinion , a copyright infringement. If you add reverb or chorus to the sample you`re still using HIS thing. >> I have to say that I don't agree with the above definition of copyright infringement. If you were to take "Funky Drummer" and lay death metal guitars, an acid line and hindu chanting samples over it you would be creating a piece that, hopefully, is greater than the some of it's parts. Therefore it is a creative step forward which is what copyright law is supposed to be fostering. But it has been basterdized by greedy buinessmen who are useing the evolution and popularzation of sampling as a way to make some bucks on stuff collecting dust in their backcatalogs. They are the ones who are gonna make the cash if you clear the sample, not the drummer (whose name is Bernard Purty, I belive. It'z an absolute sin that he is not in the rock n' roll hall of fame yet.) It would be beautiful if samplists could simply list their sources. It would generate interest in the originals and stir up some sales. But instead publishers charge absolutly silly amounts of money to clear shit so people have to play hide and seek. This crap is hampering the evolution of music. I suggest you all read Chris Griggs excelent article on Fair Use when I find the damn address for it. Aaron Zilch VicePrezident in charge ov Cerebral Dizcomfort Audio Terrorism Corporation/House ov Scof The Makers ov A:P0D. www.atomick.com From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 10:37:09 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id GAA23547; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 06:11:45 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 06:11:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <002101bdd190$faebdfe0$8a0a4382@hovard> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 03:05:45 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: PUFFyisms Resent-Message-ID: <"6kHHm1.0.Fg5.s_Ivr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1353 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 1:02 AM -0700 8/27/98, Thomas Whni wrote: >The only point that matters to me is this: did the Police get payed when >he used their song? If they did than GO PUFFY GO PUFFY GO PUFFY. :-) > Well, Sting was on stage singing with him for one of those inane awards shows, so I would guess so. Jimmy Page probably made out ok, too. Puff Daddy is probably a case that doesn't qualify as fair use, since he pretty much captures the whole melody of the song, and doesn't really attempt to do anything new with it. Quite the opposite, he's trying to make it sound a lot like the original. He's much closer to doing a cover version, most of the time, and paying a royalty is totally appropriate. BTW, I totally agree with what you say about Puff Daddy. The guy's not trying to be a Snobby Artist. He's just making fun, good-times music. Seems absurd to judge him to some high-art standard when he's clearly not trying to be that. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 10:39:23 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA20399; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 11:16:59 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 11:16:59 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35E53186.A99D0CD6@nyfac.com> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 11:14:31 +0100 From: "trevor bajus, digital surgeon" Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com Organization: New York Film and Animation Inc / 3DV X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Unsubscribe References: <2.2.32.19980827004046.00995124@pop.chromatic.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"god-H2.0.6i4.TRNvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1358 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Kim Flint wrote: > At 08:29 PM 8/26/98 -0400, Spiros Kassimis wrote: > >Take me of this frigin''' list. I have replied unsubscribe about four godamn > >times and it never happens. Take me offffffff!! NOWWWWW!!!!!!! What a twit. tdb > From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 03:32:14 1998 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Bernard Purdie..... Cc: Bcc: X-Attachments: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: At 2:59 AM -0700 8/27/98, Dizfunkt@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 98-08-27 00:42:06 EDT, you write: >you clear the sample, not the drummer (whose name is Bernard Purty, I belive. >It'z an absolute sin that he is not in the rock n' roll hall of fame yet.) It wow, you remind me of several times working at namm/frankfurt music tradeshows, when I had the enourmous pleasure to be in the same booth where Bernard Purdie was doing demos all day, trading off with Gregg Bissonette. God, it was such a pleasure to listen to them! The two of them just exuded joy and enthusiasm while they played, even on the fifth day of hell at frankfurt. And Bernard is just a jaw-droppingly awesome drummer. On top of that, he was just so nice a guy, it was something. you're right, he deserves much more credit. He's done much more than the funky drummer though, he's one of the top session players in the world...... kim From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 11:50:25 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA18867; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:10:12 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:10:12 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35E559FC.93F90D97@nyfac.com> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:07:09 +0100 From: "trevor bajus, digital surgeon" Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com Organization: New York Film and Animation Inc / 3DV X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Fwd: FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN References: <2.2.32.19980826215841.00928c44@pop.chromatic.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"mT3D12.0.5N4.fzPvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1364 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Kim Flint wrote: > Provisions are made in the law to allow others to reuse portions of > that work for a variety of puposes, freely, and without requireing any > permission from you, the owner. That's in the law, and has been for a very > long time, and is a principle called Fair Use.... The point of it is to > encourage ongoing > discourse and development of ideas and the creation of new works based on > those ideas. > > An example of fair use is right in front of you. Stephen used a portion of a > published work of Motley's, verbatim, for the purpose of commenting on it. > Motley had used another's published work before that, in his post, also > verbatim. I'm now "sampling" both of you and reusing your work in this piece > that I am about to publish.... Back to the Puff Daddy v. Negitivland thing, if I may. Negitivland uses the samples as commentary, critizing the sources of those samples. Puff take a song, changes a word or two in the lyrics, and rakes in the loot. He does not do it to, say, critize or comment on David Bowie (although he certainly could: there's always that James Brown song [I forget the name] the he lifted music wholesale from for his song 'Fame') This also differs from Terminator X's useage of sampling in PE. He and the Bomb Squad layered their sample beds so densely, that the song owed little to the original source. Their work reminds me (and maybe you) of how our music chops developed. There's an amalgamation of a thousand riffs, textures, and grooves that when fused together is something wholely new. Like Ben Johnston said (more or less): there is nothing new under the sun, only that which is old, written anew. tdb From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 10:38:29 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id JAA07866; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 09:45:04 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 09:45:04 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <01BDD19E.0106C220@tor-usr10.074177.aracnet.net> From: Jon Grant To: "'Loopers-Delight'" Subject: RE: crackdown. Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 09:28:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"-FDVA3.0.pf1.u4Mvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1354 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Someone asked whether we may owe a debt to those who produced our fantastic looping toys and instruments above and beyond the financial price we paid. I would say if that money is the price they put on it, then we owe them nothing else. Similarly, if I decide that a certain 5 second clip of my music is worth some amount of money, than that's what the price should be: quite simple. Some people (including people on this list) put prices other than money on their music/art. That should be the artist's choice. (Some of us here expect critical input, or a trade of other music for our efforts.) If an artist prices his work too high, regardless of the quality, no one will want to take advantage of that art. I don't happen to have enough money to buy an EDP, therefore I will not buy one. I'll do without or find something that substitutes. Likewise, if I can't afford to use a sample from some artist's latest work, I can use something else or nothing at all. Unfortunately, it is not usually the artist that assigns the price to his art. Jon Grant Tian Music http://www.aracnet.net/~tianmus From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 10:38:38 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id KAA11615; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 10:17:51 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 10:17:51 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 10:01:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199808271401.KAA10190@marconi.concentric.net> X-Sender: hideo@pop3.concentric.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Tom Lambrecht Subject: Re: FS: RDS4000 Resent-Message-ID: <"U1AHx2.0.gS2.PTMvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1355 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com hey-- if you don't get the $ for it, I'd swap your choice of an Alesis MMT 8 sequencer or a Yamaha 49 key Grand MIDI controller for it . . . let me know if interested Tom At 05:04 PM 8/24/98 -0700, you wrote: >for sale - > >Digitech RDS4000 Rack Mount Digital Delay system >4 seconds delay/loop/sample plus chorus/flange/modulation >great condition. three button Roland footswitch (for loop >on/off and bypass) and manual included. >$150 plus shipping, please email: howarth@u.arizona.edu >thanks. > > > Tom Lambrecht hideo@concentric.net From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 10:39:13 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id KAA16733; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 10:54:33 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 10:54:33 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: RE: Fwd: FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 07:42:24 -0700 Message-ID: <000501bdd1c8$e9156600$a33fdacf@stepheng> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"augVu3.0.Ih3.02Nvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1356 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Kim Flint [mailto:kflint@annihilist.com] attempted: > So far, all I've gotten from you boils > down to "I don't > like it, so it's bad." ... as to why Negativland's (and my) > interpretation > of the copyright laws is incorrect, and proving your point > that sampling is > theft. Up to it? Not having gotten emotionally involved in this diatribe, I still clearly see one of the original premises, which was that Negativland and their ilk should get away with what they define as their free use of material created by others. Never have I said that I didn't Like anything; Law should have less to do with taste, I'd suspect. And what I said was this: Sampling Without Permission Of The Original Artist (Or The Owner Of A Work) Is Theft. This is sort of like an argument that I had years ago also, but it was with my 4-year-old sister over watching the Brady Bunch. Or was it a Mac user? Ah, nevermind. :) Stephen Goodman - It's... The Loop Of The Week! EarthLight Studios - http://www.earthlight.net/Studios From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 10:39:17 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA18787; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 11:07:48 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 11:07:48 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Edward_Chang@mail.amsinc.com X-Lotus-FromDomain: AMSINC To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Message-ID: <8525666D.005023AE.00@ams-central-gate-5a.amsinc.com> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 11:00:34 -0400 Subject: Re: collage (was:FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"je9Io3.0.EC4.QFNvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1357 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >>Hi Edward , I don`t think collage techniques could be regarded as theft , because you are not stealing/using the product but the IMAGE of it. You are using pictures of it. Or in the case of that torched Mac-keyboard , Mac`s product lies in the performance of the machine the technology , the reliability etc. That artist wasn`t using Macintosh to boost his own similar product. At least thats what I think......... Yours , Thomas <<< Whoa...Wed morning, pre-coffee mode and I find the most blisteringly attention-grabbing discussion on this list on a while.... Thomas, I'd consider "image" on a visual sense on par with "image" in an audio sense, so I don't see a real distinction. Sampling a 5 second sound source from a commercially available CD is analagous to clipping out a corner of a Lichtenstein (haha!) poster and using that in a piece of "otherwise original" art and making and selling posters. As far as the performance of a Mac being a selling point, I think the designers and marketing people had a creative "artistic" hand in its final appearance. Commercial art is a creative art form and so I could assume that again my artist friend was "stealing" from a commercial artist's design. Being a "self-aggrandizing outlaw composer", I've released recordings with uncleared samples. I haven't read the Fair Use laws, but my personal sense of ethics is satisfied from the fact that, tho I used a 5 second Snow White sample, there's no way that any Disney fan would divert their disposable income from a Disney purchase to one of my releases. Anyways, no use preaching to the converted, it seems. I hate to waste bandwidth but this reminds me of an article I read about Lejaren Hiller, the computer music composer who died a couple years ago. He had planned to write a program which would produce every combination and permutation of diatonic harmony and melody in 4/4 in a 3 1/2 minute time length with only major and minor chords, etc... He wanted to then print out all these scores and then send them out to get copyrighted. You see, he HATED rock and roll, and theorized that copyright infringement would enable him to put a stop to it.... I'm not sure it couldn't work... From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 10:39:39 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA26621; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 11:50:30 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 11:50:30 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <000e01bdd1d0$f5ea07c0$67094382@hovard> From: "Thomas Whni" To: Subject: Re: Sampling-dilemma (no solution offered here). Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:40:03 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"_jL0R3.0.H96.8wNvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1359 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >I have to say that I don't agree with the above definition of copyright >infringement. If you were to take "Funky Drummer" and lay death metal guitars, >an acid line and hindu chanting samples over it you would be creating a piece >that, hopefully, is greater than the some of it's parts. Therefore it is a >creative step forward which is what copyright law is supposed to be fostering. But now "Funky Drummer" is redused to a mere "piece of the puzzle". So why don`t we just have a drum-machine play a beat like "funky drummer"? Because it can`t. To quote Tony Levin: "Now they can make machines sound like real drums , but not like real drummers". The work of James Brown , and in effect Bernard Purdy , is what is beeing protected by copyright law , not simply the context in which it`s placed. Putting death metal guitar on top of "funky drummer" doesn`t change the fact that you`re using their stuff. It`s no better than putting on funky E9-chords and singin` "hhh!" in a hi voice. The point , for me , is that Bernard Purdy`s drumming-style and "phatness" is his thing. And if you sample that and use it as it`s played then you are using HIS stuff. Period. Yours , Thomas From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 01:28:37 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA16516; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:59:59 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:59:59 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35E57F3B.869A1CA8@nyfac.com> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:46:03 +0100 From: "trevor bajus, digital surgeon" Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com Organization: New York Film and Animation Inc / 3DV X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: PUFFyisms References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"IG1lu.0.4e3.tQSvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1375 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > >The only point that matters to me is this: did the Police get payed when > >he used their song? If they did than GO PUFFY GO PUFFY GO PUFFY. :-) You know, I took my medication, thinking it would stop me from harping on this, but I can't stop myself. I believe this is the case; please correct me if I am wrong (because I would like to be) Andy Summers wrote the guitar part sampled by my archenemy, who shall be hereforward referred to as PD. Sting, whose vocal melody was also ripped off, licensed AS's guitar part, and got the money for it. Rumor has it, Mr. Summers is feeling a bit raped. quote: "BTW, I totally agree with what you say about Puff Daddy. The guy's not trying to be a Snobby Artist. He's just making fun, good-times music. Seems absurd to judge him to some high-art standard when he's clearly not trying to be that." The song in question was alkso supposed to be a moving tribute to the Notorious B.I.G. I swear I will stop filling up your mailboxes with my prattle now. tdb From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 01:28:41 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA17589; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:05:27 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:05:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35E57F85.E915C13E@nyfac.com> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:47:17 +0100 From: "trevor bajus, digital surgeon" Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com Organization: New York Film and Animation Inc / 3DV X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: POWER (was:FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN) References: <938c9af8.35e5a559@aol.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"SKUg83.0.Re3.wQSvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1376 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Crossedout@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 8/27/98 4:43:19 AM Central Daylight Time, hovard@online.no > writes: > > << Am I beeing paranoid or is the internet ... replacing TV as a forum for > ideas and thoughts? TV is a forum for thought?????? :-) tdb From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 10:39:42 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA30885; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 12:13:49 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 12:13:49 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <002501bdd1d3$de404320$67094382@hovard> From: "Thomas Whni" To: Subject: Re: collage (was:FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:00:52 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"R7qAg.0.L77.jDOvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1360 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > >Whoa...Wed morning, pre-coffee mode and I find the most blisteringly >attention-grabbing discussion on this list on a while.... >Thomas, I'd consider "image" on a visual sense on par with "image" in an >audio sense, so I don't see a real distinction. Sampling a 5 second sound >source from a commercially available CD is analagous to clipping out a >corner of a Lichtenstein (haha!) poster and using that in a piece of >"otherwise original" art and making and selling posters. As far as the >performance of a Mac being a selling point, I think the designers and >marketing people had a creative "artistic" hand in its final appearance. >Commercial art is a creative art form and so I could assume that again my >artist friend was "stealing" from a commercial artist's design. I think there is a distinction because audio-samples are the product ITSELF. If you sample 5 seconds from a CD you taken the WHOLE product. There is no distintion between your cd and your initial recording of the cd(the sample). You can`t compare that to cutting out a piece of a poster because a poster is not "viewed" the same way as a 5 minute song. A corner of a a Picasso painting doesn`t do the same for the whole "collage-painting" that , say , a Steve Gadd-groove does for a song. Even if you sample someting which is NOT a part of a groove it`s still more than a small part of the whole. Sampling a groove and playing you own stuff on top of it could be compared to getting a poster and painting on top of it. Using it as a canvas to lay your own stuff on it. But it`s still the "Mona Lisa" in the background , if you know what I mean. Yours , Thomas From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 10:40:03 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA07600; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 13:08:12 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 13:08:12 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <35E58C99.AC8921B9@sonic.net> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 09:43:08 -0700 From: Layne Russell X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: off for a while, thanks! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ZwcjB3.0.z21.tuOvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1361 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Kim and all, James and I are unsubbing for a while, but we'll be back later. at this point I am handling all email, and I'm swamped (I run a west coast poets list myself)! we appreciate this great list and have enjoyed our stay here...thanks! Layne in Santa Rosa CA From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 10:40:10 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA09830; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 13:20:04 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 13:20:04 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35E59278.60F3@efn.org> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 10:08:08 -0700 From: Peter Harlan Reply-To: pharlan@efn.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Fwd: FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN References: <2.2.32.19980827050818.0097a544@pop.chromatic.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"e4g12.0.Rr1.Y9Pvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1362 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com This is a very interesting discussion, and we can look at things from several different perspectives: -- What are the theoretical legal rights of those who write music, perform it, produce it, sample it, sell it and so on? -- What rights do these people have in practice, given that wealth and power do have a major effect on the application of legal principles? -- What are the ethical issues involved here, since what is legal is not necessarily ethical, and what is illegal is not necessarily unethical? -- What are the aesthetic issues involved here; e.g., why is a work deemed to be creative, or derivative, or a mixture of both? -- How do we feel about these issues as consumers of the musical culture's output? But, I'd like to look at this from another, culturally removed, point of view. In Java, there are ancient traditions that guide the composition of new gamelan works. New pieces are welcomed, but they must not depart radically from what is already in the standard repertoire. It is quite common, and acceptable, to create a new composition based almost entirely on another one, with just a few new wrinkles thrown in. The Javanese culture, of which the gamelan tradition is just a part, values cooperation and harmony much more than individualism and originality. When we start to think in absolute terms about what is right or what should be done, it can be an eye-opening experience to consider things from the point of view of a very different culture. -Peter From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 01:30:24 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id UAA05502; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 20:51:22 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 20:51:22 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:09:52 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: Jam Man For Sale Resent-Message-ID: <"OPRq62.0.tX.iqVvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1401 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Best offer over $400 get's it.......... Patrick Now Available: FingerPaint Primary Colors: BLUE A guitar-synth looping duo of dark illbience and dreamy ambience. Shockwave audio featuring our newest release Primary Colors:Blue www.fingerpaint.net From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 10:40:04 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: from oz.wj.com (oz.wj.com [204.30.16.4]) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA09377; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 13:17:31 -0400 Received: from ccsmtp.wj.com (ccsmtp.wj.com [144.172.15.213]) by oz.wj.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA06132; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 10:14:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ccMail by ccsmtp.wj.com (IMA Internet Exchange 3.0 Enterprise) id 00118C76; Thu, 27 Aug 98 10:24:10 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 10:15:09 -0700 Message-ID: <00118C76.CE21407@wj.com> From: Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle) Subject: Re[2]: Fwd: FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN To: , "Stephen P. Goodman" , kflint@annihilist.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Dear Stephen... I can hear your attachment to your work speaking loudly and clearly... Unfortunately, there is precedent in the worlds of literature and visual art which precedes this musical argument about "referencing" other people's work. Legal issues aside for the moment... The practice of a "dialog with your peers" in the art community is a well established practice. The more successful an original work is only makes it a more fitting target for cultural reference, modification and satire. The Deconstructionists entire motive was the linguistic-semiotic recontextualizing of literature and by extension, cultural icons. The new perspective was sometimes hilarious, and in many cases rendered the original opinion, thesis, art and sound impotent in light of the new updated context. This is *meaningful*... The growth or decline of any particular idea is subject to it's validity and various perspective *now*. The act of recontextualizing ideas, images, text and *music/sound* has been practiced for centuries by artists referencing other's work to create a meaningful dialog. A speech analogy: A conversation would have stepwise linear flow with meaningful reference to previous statements... With your approach you deny us reference to any cultural icons. You restrict us from quoting our sources and want to inflict "commerce" upon us by liscencing or charging us just as the big corporations do to tie smaller entities hands legally by suing to isolate the original thesis or work... despite the truth that other viewpoints and references might possibly be of any benefit or broaden our horizons or even give us a good laugh! This impedes our ability to deliver meaningful contributions/statements with reference to our culture and it's icons... to have meaningful open discussion in the art community. We're all reduced to walking on eggshells in a litigious society. Another speech analogy... There would be no conversation, only random statements! I'm sure you can guess which universe I'd rather live in... Oh! If only commerce, art and ego could all get along! Yours truly, -Miko ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: RE: Fwd: FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN Author: "Stephen P. Goodman" at INTERNET Date: 8/26/98 11:27 PM Sounds like a bunch of folks wrapping themselves in the term Fair Use, as if, once someone else creates an original work, anyone has the right to use it as they see fit, as if all defaults to the public domain, as a result of publishing. If this newsletter is mainly populated by people who sample for the content of their material, it'd be a surprise, as I've seen enough informed opinions on the nature of performance to count this newsletter second to Elephant Talk. How anyone can pretend that gratis use of material someone else created (and this is a keyword) is justifiable is beyond me, completely. If the source is public domain, that's fine. Otherwise, it's just a softening of that word noone likes to hear, Theft. Oh, excuse me, "borrowing without checking". Putting notices on ones products, when they contain samples, modified from the source or not, of someone elses work, is just theft with excuses. How is that supposed to protect anyone from prosecution for copyright infringement? > And anyway, copyright is not necessarily about money. It is when someone makes money using your material without permission. > So long as they don't take the > whole thing, put > their name at the top in place of yours, and reproduce it > somewhere else, we > are fine with this. How can it be possible that using a section of as opposed to an entire work exempts one from copyright law? It's still an unsupportable argument, and the noise made by the sampling community-at-large still smacks of an airy justification for being caught with their hands in the jar, as if "the jar was open! I smelled the cookies!" is an excuse. > It's the balancing part of the law, there to prevent some > entity from stifling further creative developments by > refusing to allow > reuse of a particular published work or making it > unreasonably expensive. > (That's what Negativland is arguing that the RIAA is doing.) Like I said. This is beginning to smell like the PC vs Mac argument, a highly-developed (though only sporadically active) form of intellectual masturbation. So that's all for now, and I'm not Lowell Thomas. Stephen Goodman - It's... The Loop Of The Week! EarthLight Studios - http://www.earthlight.net/Studios From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 11:50:32 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA21831; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:28:50 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:28:50 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Crossedout@aol.com Message-ID: > Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:20:54 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Sampling and ownership Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"YYuK81.0.V_4.uEQvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1365 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 8/27/98 1:48:36 AM Central Daylight Time, jlack@auran.com writes: << Your teachers, parents, what have you taken from them and used, what should you give them back? The musicians and artists who have inspired you, what do you really owe them? >> R. Fripp had an interesting response to a similar question (which, unfortunately, I don't have access to right now, or I'd quote [sample] verbatim) to which his response was to the effect that you don't pay back, you pay forward; you try to do for others down the line what someone did for you back up the line. If I do something nice for someone, or inspiring, or what have you, the payback for me is in having done it, and done it in honor (directly or not) of the people who have done for me. If someone then takes from that and does the same for another down the line, then the chain continues. - Bill Crossedout@aol.com From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 11:50:38 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA23176; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:36:41 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:36:41 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Crossedout@aol.com Message-ID: <938c9af8.35e5a559@aol.com>> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:28:41 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: POWER (was:FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"D4Tp71.0.iN5.GMQvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1367 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 8/27/98 4:43:19 AM Central Daylight Time, hovard@online.no writes: << Am I beeing paranoid or is the internet a much greater force than anyone can imagine? That its replacing TV as a forum for ideas and thoughts? I`m not counting books and newspapers because they aren`t open for EVERYONE , they have to sell. >> TV isn't open to everyone (unless you have easy access to public tv and the wherewithal to take the classes and sign up for the times to work on your show and air it), and neither is the internet, since you can't just hook up, you have to have a computer, you have to go through some sort of provider... I don't know if the internet is going to have the impact that TV does, until it's in as many households as TVs are. Last figures I heard were 90% of all households had TV's , but only 81% had telephones.... I think computers are way down on the list. - Bill Crossedout@aol.com From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 12:03:24 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA26990; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:57:14 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:57:14 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000501bdd1c8$e9156600$a33fdacf@stepheng> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 11:48:48 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: RE: Fwd: FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN Resent-Message-ID: <"VqPRs.0.4J6.IgQvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1368 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 7:42 AM -0700 8/27/98, Stephen P. Goodman wrote: >Kim Flint [mailto:kflint@annihilist.com] attempted: > >> So far, all I've gotten from you boils >> down to "I don't >> like it, so it's bad." ... as to why Negativland's (and my) >> interpretation >> of the copyright laws is incorrect, and proving your point >> that sampling is >> theft. Up to it? > >Not having gotten emotionally involved in this diatribe, I still clearly see >one of the original premises, which was that Negativland and their ilk >should get away with what they define as their free use of material created >by others. Never have I said that I didn't Like anything; Law should have >less to do with taste, I'd suspect. > >And what I said was this: > >Sampling Without Permission Of The Original Artist (Or The Owner Of A Work) >Is Theft. Stephen, this is your OPINION. That's not the same as a fact, and not the same as a law. If you want it to be a fact, you need to provide actual supporting evidence that it is true. As far as I can tell, the law and your opinion do not agree, there is quite a lot of evidence showing that that is the case, and you still have not provided any proof otherwise. If you are not planning to bother with proving your points, then you need to learn to say "this is my opinion." Otherwise, you rant a lot and convince nobody of anything. Reminds me of the time I was of the OPINION that driving 3 feet behind the guy in front of me who was only going 70mph in the fast lane was a perfectly acceptable thing to do, and a fine way to make him go faster or move out of my way. Seemed a safer alternative to crossing 3 lanes to the right to go around him to resume my previous speed of 90mph. The highway patrol officer didn't agree with my viewpoint. He pointed out how the LAW and my OPINION were not in agreement and that the law was not likely to lose the debate. Not suprisingly, I had some trouble finding any way to prove my case. So I went to traffic school, where I learned that I should check my mirror more often. :-) kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 12:06:22 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA27111; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:57:42 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:57:42 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 11:49:08 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Bernard Purdie..... Resent-Message-ID: <"PmO_41.0.GK6.XgQvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1369 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 2:59 AM -0700 8/27/98, Dizfunkt@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 98-08-27 00:42:06 EDT, you write: >you clear the sample, not the drummer (whose name is Bernard Purty, I belive. >It'z an absolute sin that he is not in the rock n' roll hall of fame yet.) It wow, you reminds me of several times working at namm/frankfurt music tradeshows, when I had the enormous pleasure to be in the same booth where Bernard Purdie was doing demos all day, trading off with Gregg Bissonette. God, it was such a pleasure to listen to them! The two of them just exuded joy and enthusiasm while they played, even on the fifth day of hell at frankfurt. And Bernard is just a jaw-droppingly awesome drummer. On top of that, he was just so nice a guy, it was something. you're right, he deserves much more credit. He's done much more than the funky drummer though, he's one of the top session players in the world......I think he even has sample CD's available of his playing. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 01:28:19 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA31229; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:15:14 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:15:14 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <35E5ACD9.356F@mdbs.com> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:00:41 -0500 From: "Dennis W. Leas" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; U) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Sampling and ownership References: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"CkVbi2.0.yc6.PmQvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1370 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Crossedout@aol.com wrote: > > R. Fripp had an interesting response to a similar question (which, > unfortunately, I don't have access to right now, or I'd quote [sample] > verbatim) to which his response was to the effect that you don't pay back, you > pay forward; you try to do for others down the line what someone did for you > back up the line. Thank you, Bill, for passing this onward. It's a beautiful way of thinking/doing things. - Dennis Leas From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 01:28:21 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA32108; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:18:33 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:18:33 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: "Collins" To: Subject: CD Recorders Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:08:58 -0400 Message-ID: <01bdd1ee$24c2a6c0$cb1bbfa8@0QHC6SIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"-_dXJ.0.KG7.-xQvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1371 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Does anyone have any kind of information that i should know about before purchasing a CD burner. The model i am looking at now is by Sonic Foundry and is called the CD-Factory. Has anyone out here got one of these or know someone who does. I want some first hand advice. Thanks, Jeff Collins From ???@??? Thu Aug 27 11:50:34 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA22808; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:34:46 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:34:46 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: "William A. Cummings" To: Subject: RE: Roland R8 cards Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:35:26 -0500 Message-ID: <000801bdd1f1$d7851ab0$1064a8c0@bill-s-computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"cJIc53.0._C5.7JQvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1366 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Mark, I have those cards (and more) which I use with my R-8M. Not really using that piece of gear too much (since I bought a sampler!) and may considering parting with it and/or the cards. Are you still in the market? Bill Cummings -----Original Message----- From: Mark Sottilaro [mailto:msottila@mailbox.syr.edu] Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 1998 1:28 PM To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Roland R8 cards Hey, Any of you loopers know where I could find some ROM cards for the Roland R8 drum machine? I'm looking for SN-R8-04 Electronic, SN-R8-10 Dance, SN-R8-9 Ethnic. I've looked around the internet, but I can't seem to find them anywhere. Thanks, Mark. From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 01:28:28 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA04759; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:49:28 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:49:28 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <98Aug27.143558cdt.26899@gateway.gibson.com> From: Dino Cattaneo To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Bernard Purdie..... Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:39:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"XJhV92.0.Wx.XRRvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1372 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Kim, you are absolutely right. At the past NAMM in Nashville Bernard was doing demos with Slingerland right next to the Oberheim booth (both out companies are part of Gibson). He got into some pretty hot jams with our demo guy, who used the Echoplex to create loops and then solo over them. Bernard also played an Oberheim gig with Patrick Moraz at the Gibson Cafe', and they just blew the roof off. He is a great drummer! -----Original Message----- From: Kim Flint [mailto:kflint@annihilist.com] Sent: Thursday, August 27, 1998 1:49 PM To: dcattane@gibson.com; pmurphy@gibson.com Subject: Re: Bernard Purdie..... At 2:59 AM -0700 8/27/98, Dizfunkt@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 98-08-27 00:42:06 EDT, you write: >you clear the sample, not the drummer (whose name is Bernard Purty, I belive. >It'z an absolute sin that he is not in the rock n' roll hall of fame yet.) It wow, you reminds me of several times working at namm/frankfurt music tradeshows, when I had the enormous pleasure to be in the same booth where Bernard Purdie was doing demos all day, trading off with Gregg Bissonette. God, it was such a pleasure to listen to them! The two of them just exuded joy and enthusiasm while they played, even on the fifth day of hell at frankfurt. And Bernard is just a jaw-droppingly awesome drummer. On top of that, he was just so nice a guy, it was something. you're right, he deserves much more credit. He's done much more than the funky drummer though, he's one of the top session players in the world......I think he even has sample CD's available of his playing. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 01:28:31 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA08671; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:13:02 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:13:02 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Edward_Chang@mail.amsinc.com X-Lotus-FromDomain: AMSINC To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Message-ID: <8525666D.006CA748.00@ams-central-gate-5a.amsinc.com> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:09:19 -0400 Subject: Re: collage (was:FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"Y-bly1.0.Lr1.bmRvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1373 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >From Thomas: >>I think there is a distinction because audio-samples are the product ITSELF. If you sample 5 seconds from a CD you taken the WHOLE product. There is no distintion between your cd and your initial recording of the cd(the sample). You can`t compare that to cutting out a piece of a poster because a poster is not "viewed" the same way as a 5 minute song. A corner of a a Picasso painting doesn`t do the same for the whole "collage-painting" that , say , a Steve Gadd-groove does for a song. Even if you sample someting which is NOT a part of a groove it`s still more than a small part of the whole.<< Now that's an interesting element I hadn't thought of... For my own work and other peoples' work I listen to, the sample is rarely looped and expanded to base a whole composition on, that is, a groove or extended background soundscape. Usually it's literally a "corner" of the whole piece. A five second sample lasts 5 seconds and that's it, usually for me, so I hadn't thought about the loop aspect. Maybe an additional distinction that must be taken into account is the actual USAGE of the sample. Waitaminnit - that sounds pretty obvious....back to work! From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 01:28:34 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA13442; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:42:49 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:42:49 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <001001bdd1f9$804c7c40$5e094382@hovard> From: "Thomas Whni" To: Subject: Re: POWER (was:FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 22:30:15 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"AJvnx3.0.su2.GASvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1374 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >TV isn't open to everyone (unless you have easy access to public tv and the >wherewithal to take the classes and sign up for the times to work on your show >and air it), and neither is the internet, since you can't just hook up, you >have to have a computer, you have to go through some sort of provider... I >don't know if the internet is going to have the impact that TV does, until >it's in as many households as TVs are. > >Last figures I heard were 90% of all households had TV's , but only 81% had >telephones.... I think computers are way down on the list. > You are absolutely right about that Bill , I didn`t express my idea well enough. What I was trying to say is that the Net is (in effect) free of censorship. And free of commercial issues since those who make web-pages don`t have to sell them in order to be able to maintain them(Like TV or papers). Anyone can get a webpage at geocities(or similar) and express themselves. This is something new , I think. So , if you are able to get many people to see your page (via some search engine) then you can reach many many people all over the world. For free , with no strings attached. To me this seems like something to ponder........:-) Yours , Thomas From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 01:28:42 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA17196; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:03:21 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:03:21 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:54:28 -0400 X-Sender: robm@mailgate.nytimes.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <8525666D.006CA748.00@ams-central-gate-5a.amsinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Robert Monn Subject: Re: collage (was:FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN) Resent-Message-ID: <"h36cV1.0.4k3.wSSvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1377 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com ok. so this is _my_ question: what about the chemical brother's recent hit 'setting sun?' the drum beat in this song is obviously related )closely) to the pounding ringo rhythm on 'tomorrow never knows.' in fact, the chems used recycle to extract the groove from a loop they sampled out of the beatles song, then thre it into a sampler and replaced all teh hits of the song with other sounds... differnt kick, snare etc. But the timing and the structure of the groove are 'samples' from the beatles. Anyone that has ever tried to put a beat together manually will quickly realize that the timing of the events and the structure of the events (funky drumer and tomorrow never knows are kick-snare, jungle is very high hat oriented -- the structure as orchestration, if you will) _are_ the beat these days. But the chems are well within the law in what they do as they haven't used any of the _audio_ from the original track. I guess it's up to everyone to decide what they would prefer to happen to their music. I'd be flattered to be quoted (in the fair use way) and angry if someone made a buck off selling a song of mine. BTW: Beck dealt with many copyright issues on Odelay by just playing the parts over again... while it was difficult he still got the result he wanted.... any 'fair use' of a song that was replayed would be legal while copying a whole song by replaying the parts would still be CW infringement. So maybe the thing is to just replay whatever phrase you want (it make it seem like you did (smile)). _________________________________ /robb monn -- robm@nytimes.com | From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 01:28:52 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA18933; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:12:46 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:12:46 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <000401bdd1fd$b506e160$47084382@hovard> From: "Thomas Whni" To: Subject: Re: collage (was:FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 23:00:21 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"HupSH2.0.SC4.KcSvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1378 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >Now that's an interesting element I hadn't thought of... For my own work >and other peoples' work I listen to, the sample is rarely looped and >expanded to base a whole composition on, that is, a groove or extended >background soundscape. Usually it's literally a "corner" of the whole >piece. A five second sample lasts 5 seconds and that's it, usually for me, >so I hadn't thought about the loop aspect. Maybe an additional distinction >that must be taken into account is the actual USAGE of the sample. >Waitaminnit - that sounds pretty obvious....back to work! And I must admit that I hadn`t really considered using samples raw WITHOUT repeating them. I just got ACID so I`m on "loop mode" you could say. But I think we really in sync then , we just came from different experiences.........gimme a hug , bro!!! :-) Yours , Thomas From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 01:28:58 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA20851; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:23:26 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:23:26 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <000601bdd1ff$0dec5660$47084382@hovard> From: "Thomas Whni" To: , Subject: Re: PUFFyisms Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 23:09:52 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"smCO6.0.ge4.WlSvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1379 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >> >The only point that matters to me is this: did the Police get payed when >> >he used their song? If they did than GO PUFFY GO PUFFY GO PUFFY. :-) > >You know, I took my medication, thinking it would stop me from harping on this, >but I can't stop myself. I believe this is the case; please correct me if I am >wrong (because I would like to be) > >Andy Summers wrote the guitar part sampled by my archenemy, who shall be >hereforward referred to as PD. > >Sting, whose vocal melody was also ripped off, licensed AS's guitar part, and >got the money for it. > >Rumor has it, Mr. Summers is feeling a bit raped. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Any idea whose fault this is? Yours , Thomas From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 01:29:11 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA25394; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:45:08 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:45:08 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: KRosser414@aol.com Message-ID: > Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:38:39 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Sampling debate Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Resent-Message-ID: <"REWEj.0.y_5.H8Tvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1380 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I have to admit I have a little trouble feeling sympathy for Negativland or the hip-hop community claiming their creativity is being squelched by people wanting to be paid for work they are sampling. It seems to me that if you are a scavenger sifting through recorded history looking for things that will have resonance you would be somewhat aware that there is a debt to be paid to those who originated the work since you are dependent upon them. To meet their demands before using it doesn't seem like much to ask. If you can meet that demand, great. If you can't, move on. To cry "repression" here to me is childish in the extreme. Is sampling valid in music? Of course, I would agree that it is. But if you need to sample a Robert Plant screech from a Zeppelin song, then heavily process it, run it backwards, etc. until it's unrecognizable (thereby putting you in the clear from owing them anything), to me it begs the question: why not just screech into a mic for your damn self then? If the Zeppelin screech carries with it such significant mojo that even sliced & diced beyond recognition it's something you have to have, then Zeppelin deserves to be justly credited and/or compensated for their mojo. I'll go one step further: this is not something you should wait to do until a team of Zeppelin lawyers comes to your door (frightening bunch, I'm sure). In the question of Fripp's appropriating the work of Hendrix and Holst, I read a story once years ago about how Keith Emerson pays a share of the publishing to the owners of Bela Bartok's estate for deliberately stealing from a piece of his. Emerson didn't contest it and has complied ever since. Bartok still doesn't get a writing credit but the money is going where it should. Fripp may or may not be in a similar situation with the Holst estate. You may find a way to use it legally against the creator's wishes. How someone could do that and keep a clear conscience is a bit beyond me. This is not a legal argument I'm making but a moral one. I seriously, seriously question the integrity of someone who can't take an ethical stand on an issue independent of a legal one. ken R From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 01:29:33 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id SAA09494; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:30:18 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:30:18 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199808272222.SAA18542@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: , Subject: CRACK is RAAINNing DOWN Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:18:03 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gWLBT1.0.PY1.8nTvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1384 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > compensation. Even WB has had to comply on this level, actually. One fine > example that foreshadowed this very controversy happened with "My Life In > The Bush With Ghosts", a Brian Eno/David Byrne collaboration that I think > enough of us remember from 1980. Sire Records, in case one forgets, is a > sublabel of Warner Bros. They had to reissue the album, minus a few tracks, > which had included taped bits used without permission. i'm with you, steve.. also - the BUSH OF GHOSTS album had to 'lose' a track that had a reading of the Qu'ran, i believe due to complaints from islamic fundamentalists.... but, yeah - this is all hot button stuff... i personally say - tear those samples apart, make 'em original if you HAVE to use an existing riff. And though i like some of more tastefully done stuff...i heard an old De LA Soul track the other day - with Steely Dan's "Peg" riff in it, and it worked well... but other times - like ALL of PuffedUp Daddy's "works".....is really throwing together others' recognizable riffs.. i mean it's abhorrent to me to get one to enjoy a song - and it's groove and melody, when it's a police or queen song!?!? I mean - the listener is responding emotionally to a song s/he knows from the past.... It's cheesy, most of the time. However - when the usage is IRONIC , like what Negativland would do, etc..hmm. i dunno. somehow since there is a POINT being made, it's a diff. situation. Of course, the laws can't be written to exclude "ironic references", can they>!??! andre' From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 01:29:35 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id SAA11052; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:34:10 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:34:10 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:27:31 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Sampling debate In-Reply-To: > Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"_rt5y2.0.652.irTvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1386 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com On Thu, 27 Aug 1998 KRosser414@aol.com wrote: > I have to admit I have a little trouble feeling sympathy for Negativland or > the hip-hop community claiming their creativity is being squelched by people > wanting to be paid for work they are sampling. It seems to me that if you are > a scavenger sifting through recorded history looking for things that will have > resonance you would be somewhat aware that there is a debt to be paid to those > who originated the work since you are dependent upon them. To meet their > demands before using it doesn't seem like much to ask. If you can meet that > demand, great. If you can't, move on. To cry "repression" here to me is > childish in the extreme. The "demands" very rarely come from the original musicians, since the musicians so rarely *own* their own music. Trading copyright for publishing is standard industry practice, and FAR more dispicable than even the most egregious sampling. > Is sampling valid in music? Of course, I would agree that it is. But if you > need to sample a Robert Plant screech from a Zeppelin song, then heavily > process it, run it backwards, etc. until it's unrecognizable (thereby putting > you in the clear from owing them anything), to me it begs the question: why > not just screech into a mic for your damn self then? If the Zeppelin screech > carries with it such significant mojo that even sliced & diced beyond > recognition it's something you have to have, then Zeppelin deserves to be > justly credited and/or compensated for their mojo. I'll go one step further: > this is not something you should wait to do until a team of Zeppelin lawyers > comes to your door (frightening bunch, I'm sure). Speaking of Zeppelin credits, did they ever get around to paying Willy Dixon? There is *considerable* artistic merit to the possibilities of sampled re-interpretations of works deeply embedded in the collective unconscious of popular culture. One of my dreams, if i can find the time and the right bandmates, is an acoustic guitar/standup bass/hand percussion trio playing nothing but radically reinterpreted covers. Just simple things, like my unplugged rendition of Ministry's "Burning Inside", can really resonant with irony. > You may find a way to use it legally against the creator's wishes. How > someone could do that and keep a clear conscience is a bit beyond me. This is > not a legal argument I'm making but a moral one. I seriously, seriously > question the integrity of someone who can't take an ethical stand on an issue > independent of a legal one. Again, are the "creator's wishes" always involved? Remember the story i told earlier of the encounter between Negativland and The Edge. He honestly had *no idea* that corporate lawyers purportedly representing his interests were making life hell for serious artists who reinterpreted his work. As for legality, and working against the wishes of others affected by art, i present U2. One of their videos (don't remember which song now) was a marvelous act of civil disobedience. They went to LA, and had every radio and tv station in town announce a free public concert in a park, THAT DAY. No permits, no permission, no nothing - they just set up in the park to play. Thousands of people showed up. The police were caught in a situation where they risked a riot if they tried to stop it. :} -dave Practice beautiful randomness and act kind of senseless. From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 01:29:34 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id SAA10163; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:31:57 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:31:57 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <35E5DDFC.545E@mdbs.com> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:30:20 -0500 From: "Dennis W. Leas" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; U) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: intro. References: <19980827.044033.8526.2.gsg@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2mdGd2.0.s_1.-qTvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1385 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Welcome to the list, Geoff! - Dennis Leas From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 01:29:51 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA22450; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:00:27 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:00:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD05DF848@migarexch01.maritz.com> From: "Liebig, Steuart A." To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Sampling debate Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:54:42 -0500 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Resent-Message-ID: <"rgKq03.0.W-4.bFUvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1387 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > As for legality, and working against the wishes of others affected by art, > i present U2. One of their videos (don't remember which song now) was a > marvelous act of civil disobedience. They went to LA, and had every radio > and tv station in town announce a free public concert in a park, THAT DAY. > No permits, no permission, no nothing - they just set up in the park to > play. Thousands of people showed up. The police were caught in a > situation where they risked a riot if they tried to stop it. :} > A funny thing about this story: I knew/worked with the guys who did the production for that . . . they were, IMHO, cut-throat bastards. As far as I know, they were the guys who engineered that scenario, not U2 (not a big U2 fan, so if they're dirty on this, that's fine too ). The guy who, on camera, gets served with the papers to desist filming the video? The same guy who crossed out all of my friend's hard-earned overtime on a production job, explaining "the basis of capitalism is exploitation of the worker." So much for legality . . . stig BTW, some of those guys went on to big-time $$ in the film industry . . . which is, as we know, even more insane than the record industry. From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 01:29:15 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA27739; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:57:29 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:57:29 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: "William A. Cummings" To: Subject: RE: CD Recorders Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:58:26 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01bdd20e$3355ad70$1064a8c0@bill-s-computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <01bdd1ee$24c2a6c0$cb1bbfa8@0QHC6SIA> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"_moeg.0.nK6.OHTvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1382 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I'm looking to pick one up too. I was thinking about this one, but Smart and Friendly is just coming out with a new external drive called the CD Rocket. It writes at 8 speed and plays back at 20 speed. I got a speck sheet that I'll forward to the list. It also comes with a version of SoundForge XE, which is also bundled with the CD-Factory package. Sounds like the latest and Greatest to me, so hoping this may be of interest to you and others on this list. Bill Cummings -----Original Message----- From: Collins [mailto:collinsclan@sprintmail.com] Sent: Thursday, August 27, 1998 2:09 PM To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: CD Recorders Does anyone have any kind of information that i should know about before purchasing a CD burner. The model i am looking at now is by Sonic Foundry and is called the CD-Factory. Has anyone out here got one of these or know someone who does. I want some first hand advice. Thanks, Jeff Collins From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 01:29:16 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA27970; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:58:00 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:58:00 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: "William A. Cummings" To: "Loop Dudes" Subject: FW: CD Rocket External (http://www.smartandfriendly.com/cdrocke.html) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:58:29 -0500 Message-ID: <000c01bdd20e$34c5df40$1064a8c0@bill-s-computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01BDD1E4.4BEFD740" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"F5e-i2.0.fL6.aHTvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1383 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com CD Rocket External
 
 Subject: CD Rocket External (http://www.smartandfriendly.com/cdrocke.html)

Here's an external SCSI CD-Recorder that I'm lookin at. I need cheap data storage solution (CD's), and of course want to be able to record my own CD too. This looks like the one.
 
CD Rocket
Specifications



The CD Rocket is an 8x write, 20x playback CD-Recorder with a plentiful 2MB buffer and a PCI SCSI 2 host adapter. It features a comprehensive software suite including Adaptec Easy CD Creator Deluxe Edition, Adaptec Toast for Mac, Sonic Foundry CD Architect, Sonic Foundry Sound Forge XP, Diamond Cut DCart 32, Macromedia Backstage Designer Plus, MediaPath MediaAgent, ECI Disc Inspector Pro, Smart and Friendly CD Consultant, and a CD Rocket Fuel blank CD-R disc.

CD Rocket External CD-Recorder Specifications

Recording Mode Formats* CD-ROM, CD-DA (Audio CD), CD-ROM/XA, Audio-combined CD-ROM, CD-I, CD-I Ready, CD Bridge, Video CD, CD-Extra
Writing Methods Disc-at-Once, Session-at-Once, Track-at-Once, Packet Writing (variable and fixed), Multisession
Reading Mode Formats* CD-ROM, CD-DA (Audio CD), CD-ROM/XA, Audio-combined CD-ROM, CD-I, CD-I Ready, CD Bridge, Video CD, CD-Extra, CD-R discs (conforming
to Orange Book Part II)
Data Transfer Rate Recording
Write 8x - 1200Kbytes/sec
Playback 20x - 3000Kbytes/sec
10 Mbytes/sec Maximum
Average Access Time 150ms
Buffer Memory 2MB
Media Supported 8x certified media
Interface (connector type) SCSI 2, 2-50 pin Centronics connectors
Audio Outputs
Front Stereo mini-jack (for headphones)
Rear Dual RCA stereo jacks (for line output)
MTBF 30,000 (POH)
20% duty
Disc Loading Tray Mechanism System
System Requirements
PC
  • Pentium 133 or compatible running Windows 95 or Windows NT 4.0
  • 32MB RAM minimum system memory
  • One 3.5 high density floppy disk drive
  • Fast hard drive (average access time less than 19ms, transfer rate 1.5MB/sec or better)
  • One available PCI expansion slot or a PCI ASPI compliant SCSI host adapter with available SCSI ID
MAC
  • Apple Macintosh or Power Macintosh
  • 8MB RAM minimum system memory
  • MAC OS System 7.0 or above
  • Fast hard drive (average access time less than 19ms, transfer rate 1.5MB/s or better)
Software Included
  • Adaptec Easy CD Creator Deluxe Edition (with CD Spin Doctor, Video CD Creator, Picture CD Creator)
  • Adaptec Toast for Mac
  • Sonic Foundry CD Architect
  • Sonic Foundry Sound Forge XP
  • Diamond Cut DCart 32
  • Macromedia Backstage Designer Plus
  • MediaPath Technologies MediaAgent
  • ECI Disc Inspector Pro
  • Smart and Friendly CD Consultant
  • Smart and Friendly CD Rocket Fuel blank CD-R disc

* Additional hardware and/or software may be required


SAF791 CD Rocket External version


For More Information Call Toll Free: (800) 542-8838
Phone: (818) 772-8001
Fax: (818) 772-2888

All specifications are subject to change without notice. All trademarks and
registered trademarks are the property of their respective holders.
 

Thought you all might be interested in this. If not, I apologize for wasting anyone's bandwidth.

Bill Cummings
drums@myself.com
 

Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="ATT00003.dat" Content-ID: <007101bdcf5a$a2ff79a0$64409ad1@default> Attachment converted: shards o' data:ATT00003.dat 1 (????/----) (000015B2) From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 01:30:02 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA29809; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:17:01 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:17:01 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199808272311.TAA06767@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: Re: PUFFyisms Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:07:05 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"EGm0D2.0.al6.6VUvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1390 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >The only point that matters to me is this: did the Police get payed when >he used their song? If they did than GO PUFFY GO PUFFY GO PUFFY. :-) > Well, Sting was on stage singing with him for one of those inane awards shows, so I would guess so. Jimmy Page probably made out ok, too. yes indeed..... in a recent interview Andy Summers talks about them getting paid royally for this... and he knew nothing of it until one of his twins ran in yelling, roughly "daddy, daddy, you're on the radio with a rap song.." andre' From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 01:29:59 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA28675; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:14:43 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:14:43 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:08:23 -0400 From: buzzard@world.std.com (Sean T Barrett) Message-Id: <199808272308.AA11630@world.std.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: RE: Fwd: FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN Resent-Message-ID: <"g34vP2.0.eN6._RUvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1388 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Very little of what you are describing is really fair use. http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html (this is the "standard" FAQ about copyright frequently posted to usenet) An expanded discussion of 'fair use' can be fuond in ftp://ftp.aimnet.com/pub/users/carroll/law/copyright/faq/part2 sections 2.8 and 2.9 Sean From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 01:30:00 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA28934; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:15:22 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:15:22 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980827230943.00e3974c@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:09:43 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: collage (was:FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN) Resent-Message-ID: <"8xmnF.0.fQ6.MSUvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1389 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 04:09 PM 8/27/98 -0400, Edward_Chang@mail.amsinc.com wrote: > > >>From Thomas: >>>I think there is a distinction because audio-samples are the product >ITSELF. If you sample 5 seconds from a CD you taken the WHOLE product. >There is no distintion between your cd and your initial recording of the >cd(the sample). You can`t compare that to cutting out a piece of a poster >because a poster is not "viewed" the same way as a 5 minute song. A corner >of a a Picasso painting doesn`t do the same for the whole >"collage-painting" that , say , a Steve Gadd-groove does for a song. Even >if you sample someting which is NOT a part of a groove it`s still more than >a small part of the whole.<< > > >Now that's an interesting element I hadn't thought of... For my own work >and other peoples' work I listen to, the sample is rarely looped and >expanded to base a whole composition on, that is, a groove or extended >background soundscape. Usually it's literally a "corner" of the whole >piece. A five second sample lasts 5 seconds and that's it, usually for me, >so I hadn't thought about the loop aspect. Maybe an additional distinction >that must be taken into account is the actual USAGE of the sample. >Waitaminnit - that sounds pretty obvious....back to work! You could just as well take a sample that only existed as a single 5 second event in the original piece and then loop it in your own. By repetition you can give something a character it didn't have before, and use that as a base for recontextualizing the sample in a new piece. So it all gets more and more complicated....that's what happens when you start trying to draw a line somewhere in a completely subjective arena and try to decide what's right and what's wrong! the line gets moved around a lot. As far as sampling a whole groove goes, I think something like a James Brown groove is a monumental piece of popular culture. For many people, those sounds and that groove have been an ever-present part of our environment for most of our lives. If you wanted to make an artistic interpretaion or comment on that cultural event, I think that quoting that groove would be a completely valid thing to do. Many listeners would have an immediate connection to that, which you could then use as a basis for your own statement. To me this is just another form of borrowing of ideas from one song to use in another that is very deeply ingrained in western pop and folk music. All of the music I listen to, from early blues and jazz to the latest drum and bass, does this constantly. Sampling just gives a new way to do it, and huge numbers of musicians have found it a completely natural and obvious thing to do in creating new music. The wealth of resulting music speaks for itself, in my opinion. The only people who seem to have a problem with it are those more interested in commerce and improving their revenue streams than they are in art and expression, those insecure enough about their musical proficiency to feel somehow threatened by it, or those cloaking their negative opinions about dance music and hip-hop in attacks on the techniques used. Once upon a time, I was totally against the whole practice of sampling, considering it a complete abomination. (as some of you are expressing.) Since that time, I've heard a lot of great sample based music, and had a lot of other arguments presented to me, causing me to honestly rethink tbe whole thing and reevaluate why I had the opinions I did, and bringing me to an obviously different conclusion. I couldn't find any solid, supportable arguments to prop up my old anti-sampling tirades. I imagine that in 20 years, this whole debate will seem just as absurd as the old debates over Miles' introduction of loud electric instruments in jazz does now, or the use of saxophones in classical music, or Jimi's approach to electric guitar, or Charlie Parker's approach to jazz. To me it's absurd even now, since I went through it all 10 years ago, but I'm guessing these things take some time to reach all the hinterlands. It is kinda suprising to find it here on a list entirely devoted sampling oriented techniques, though. kim ________________________________________________________ Kim Flint, MTS 408-752-9284 Chromatic Research kflint@chromatic.com http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 01:30:03 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA32153; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:22:09 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:22:09 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Crossedout@aol.com Message-ID: > Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:16:23 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: CD Recorders Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"oSnMS1.0.qJ7.-ZUvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1391 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 8/27/98 2:19:19 PM Central Daylight Time, collinsclan@sprintmail.com writes: << Does anyone have any kind of information that i should know about before purchasing a CD burner. The model i am looking at now is by Sonic Foundry and is called the CD-Factory. Has anyone out here got one of these or know someone who does. I want some first hand advice. T >> I have a stand-alone burner / copyer that is made by a company called CSC, that uses a Phillips CDD 2600 drive. It's only a 2x write and 4x read, but it is consistent and has never burned a "coaster", as some of my friends call a bad disc. - Bill Crossedout@aol.com From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 01:30:22 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA02323; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:28:30 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:28:30 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:24:02 -0400 From: buzzard@world.std.com (Sean T Barrett) Message-Id: <199808272324.AA23878@world.std.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: RE: Fwd: FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN References: <2.2.32.19980827050818.0097a544@pop.chromatic.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"8BGFT.0.Q5.ZgUvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1392 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com kim: >At 11:27 PM -0700 8/26/98, Stephen P. Goodman wrote: >>Sounds like a bunch of folks wrapping themselves in the term Fair Use, as >>if, once someone else creates an original work, anyone has the right to use >>it as they see fit, as if all defaults to the public domain, as a result of >>publishing. > >well Stephen, you still don't seem to understand what Fair Use is. But you >are absolutely right, I am completely wrapping myself in the principle of >Fair Use, which is a well established legal concept in use all over the >world. So, I challenge you to unwrap me! > >Except this time, try using things like evidence, references, actual legal >theories, credible, substantiated arguments, the actual law as written, >consistent logic, etc. You know - actually research what you are saying >before you say it. So far, all I've gotten from you boils down to "I don't >like it, so it's bad." But there's not been any substance underlying your >opinion. I'd love to hear a well-reasoned, non-emotional argument based in >actual law and legal theory for why Negativland's (and my) interpretation >of the copyright laws is incorrect, and proving your point that sampling is >theft. Up to it? Ok, kim. It's very simple. NOBODY disputes that Negativland (and these other artists) have directly sampled (copied) other people's works. Thus, the burden of proof is on THEM (and you) to show why it *IS* fair use, and not a violation of copyright. Please produce references, citations, etc. etc. Sean From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 01:30:04 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA06909; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:38:58 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:38:58 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199808272329.TAA14216@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: "Pretty" Purdie Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:24:31 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"OHKbr.0.Ug.NlUvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1393 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Lets not forget Bernard Purdie's mighty work on lots of Steely Dan classics... andre' From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 01:30:07 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA06443; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:37:49 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:37:49 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Crossedout@aol.com Message-ID: <643496d0.35e5ec5a@aol.com>> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:31:38 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: collage (was:FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"NVqCh2.0.s-.lnUvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1394 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 8/27/98 4:03:55 PM Central Daylight Time, robm@nytimes.com writes: << But the chems are well within the law in what they do as they haven't used any of the _audio_ from the original track. >> Just a couple more pieces of food to chew on... sample and rights related.... - in one of the first articles I ever read, in Musician magazine, that addressed this subject, one hip-hop producer talked about having a hard time securing the rights to a part of the guitar line to "Dear Mr. Fantasy"... so he just got a studio session player and had him come up with a guitar line that resembled but was not "D.M.F." and used that instead.... - Eddie Van Halen, when being shit on about "Right Now" being used in a beer commercial or some such enterprise, responded that if he didn't liscense the song, the beer company would just hire session musicians to record a sound- alike version, pay the (pittance) royalty associated with covering the song, and VH would get nothing, compared to what they got for the use of the song. (Come to think of it, portions of that song appeared on the soundtrack to "The Wild Life", years before, under a different title... maybe we should get him for "sampling" from himself....) - there's a (possibly local) Ford ad that uses a carbon copy of the 311 song "Beautiful Disaster"... only a slightly different guitar line (descending here instead of ascending there...little changes). I wonder what the price difference was between coming up with a soundalike versus liscensing the song? No great moral here, just some more tidbits to digest (or maybe just more mud for the waters.....) - Bill Crossedout@aol.com From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 01:30:10 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA08829; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:43:19 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:43:19 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Crossedout@aol.com Message-ID: <67cb99bf.35e5edef@aol.com>> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:38:23 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Sampling debate Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"7s_5f2.0.yj1.cuUvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1395 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 8/27/98 4:45:26 PM Central Daylight Time, KRosser414@aol.com writes: << I have to admit I have a little trouble feeling sympathy for Negativland or the hip-hop community claiming their creativity is being squelched by people wanting to be paid for work they are sampling. >> Part of the problem, though, is that it's not the artist who is against the sampling... it's the artists' record company. If I call up The Edge and say "hey, can I sample the riff from "New Year's Day", and he says "sure, send me a copy and a case of Guiness", that's all well and good. He's getting something he thinks is fair, I get the sample. The problem is, Island records is going to want to be a part of this transaction. Whereas The Edge may think a few pints and a copy of the song is sufficient, Island is apt to ask for $50,000 and 100% of my publishing. THAT's what gets crippling. I am willing to pay for stuff that I use. I am certainly willing to acknoledge a sample... if I liked the friggin' thing so much I'd use it as part of a composition of mine, I have no problem giving credit where credit is due. But is it the artists who are up in arms? (Anywhere but this list?) Or is it the record companies who are so deathly afraid now that they might "give away" the possible percentage of the next "Can't Touch This?" - Bill Crossedout@aol.com From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 01:30:14 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA11991; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:50:52 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:50:52 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199808272346.TAA21650@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: sample this!! Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:41:38 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"mmFAT2.0.wV2.Q_Uvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1397 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From: Crossedout@aol.com > To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Subject: Re: Sampling debate > Date: Thursday, August 27, 1998 7:38 PM > Part of the problem, though, is that it's not the artist who is against the > sampling... it's the artists' record company. see, why ya gotta bring Prince into this discussion ? He's my main man!!! and so underrated as a player. Damn!! andre' :) From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 01:30:12 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA11359; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:49:22 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:49:22 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Crossedout@aol.com Message-ID: <56934454.35e5ef3a@aol.com>> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:43:54 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: collage (was:FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"vnaX52.0._J2.jzUvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1396 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 8/27/98 6:15:52 PM Central Daylight Time, kflint@chromatic.com writes: << I imagine that in 20 years, this whole debate will seem just as absurd as the old debates over Miles' introduction of loud electric instruments in jazz does now >> Kim, Miles Davis was a heretic, and you are going to hell. .... .... .... ....JUST KIDDING. I love you, Kim, I really do..... - Bill Crossedout@aol.com *probably going to hell for this message* From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 01:30:15 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA12888; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:52:54 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:52:54 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Crossedout@aol.com Message-ID: > Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:47:36 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"H890x.0.5k2.U1Vvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1398 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 8/27/98 6:34:16 PM Central Daylight Time, buzzard@world.std.com writes: << Thus, the burden of proof is on THEM (and you) to show why it *IS* fair use, and not a violation of copyright. >> Did I wake up in Russia this morning? I could have sworn that in this country, we had a concept referred to as "innocent until proven guilty", in which case it is the PROSECUTORS' job to prove that the DEFENDANTS are guilty, not the defendants' responsibility to prove themselves innocent. Dosvedanya, tovarisch. - Bill Crossedout@stalin.com From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 01:30:18 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id UAA22575; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 20:14:18 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 20:14:18 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980828000951.00e388d8@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:09:51 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: RE: Fwd: FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN Resent-Message-ID: <"1YUbk3.0.g-4.jKVvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1399 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 07:24 PM 8/27/98 -0400, Sean T Barrett wrote: >kim: >>At 11:27 PM -0700 8/26/98, Stephen P. Goodman wrote: >>>Sounds like a bunch of folks wrapping themselves in the term Fair Use, as >>>if, once someone else creates an original work, anyone has the right to use >>>it as they see fit, as if all defaults to the public domain, as a result of >>>publishing. >> >>well Stephen, you still don't seem to understand what Fair Use is. But you >>are absolutely right, I am completely wrapping myself in the principle of >>Fair Use, which is a well established legal concept in use all over the >>world. So, I challenge you to unwrap me! >> >>Except this time, try using things like evidence, references, actual legal >>theories, credible, substantiated arguments, the actual law as written, >>consistent logic, etc. You know - actually research what you are saying >>before you say it. So far, all I've gotten from you boils down to "I don't >>like it, so it's bad." But there's not been any substance underlying your >>opinion. I'd love to hear a well-reasoned, non-emotional argument based in >>actual law and legal theory for why Negativland's (and my) interpretation >>of the copyright laws is incorrect, and proving your point that sampling is >>theft. Up to it? > >Ok, kim. It's very simple. NOBODY disputes that >Negativland (and these other artists) have directly >sampled (copied) other people's works. > >Thus, the burden of proof is on THEM (and you) to >show why it *IS* fair use, and not a violation of >copyright. Please produce references, citations, >etc. etc. I already did that, and really, I'm just restating Negativland's argument. As I said in the first place, please refer to their web page (www.negativland.com), as I don't think it is necessary to re-write everything they already have. They have extensive documentation on the issue, with references, legal texts, etc., which you are welcome to refute. I think they prove their case well, and I'd like to see it argued in court. My complaint above is directed at people who are willing to rail against Negativland's position, using nothing but their opinion and anecdotes to back it up. Indeed, it's not even clear that people here are reading Negativland's documentation before attacking them on it. So far, you are the first person who's actually attempted to provide any credible information on the issue. So, thanks! It's a refreshing change. I just finished reading all the references you cited, and they pretty much line up with Negativland's position on the whole fair use issue. So if you want more references from me, then the ones you provided serve just fine! Hopefully, others are reading them too. The troubling thing is, there haven't been many cases over audio sampling that have gone to trial, so there aren't many legal opinions specific to this issue. Negativland's point is, they want to take it to court, rather than have the whole issue dealt with through strong-arm legal tactics behind the scenes. More power to 'em! (I'm sure they'll just turn it into another piece of media art, too, which should be fun....) One amusing thing from your second reference (ftp://ftp.aimnet.com/pub/users/carroll/law/copyright/faq/part2)...they listed a set of one publisher's guidelines for when they feel it is necessary to seek permission for reuse of a copyrighted work. The funny one is second to last: " - Music examples of more than 4 measures;" So presumably, less than 4 measures is ok? I think you could get the "funky drummer" groove with that! kim ________________________________________________________ Kim Flint, MTS 408-752-9284 Chromatic Research kflint@chromatic.com http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 01:30:19 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id UAA23604; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 20:16:48 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 20:16:48 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980828001236.00f2652c@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:12:36 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: collage (was:FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN) Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Resent-Message-ID: <"c3XgR.0.DI5.JNVvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1400 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 07:43 PM 8/27/98 EDT, Crossedout@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 8/27/98 6:15:52 PM Central Daylight Time, >kflint@chromatic.com writes: > ><< I imagine that in 20 > years, this whole debate will seem just as absurd as the old debates over > Miles' introduction of loud electric instruments in jazz does now >> > >Kim, Miles Davis was a heretic, and you are going to hell. > well, I was already heading there, that's why it's so easy to play devil's advocate! kim ________________________________________________________ Kim Flint, MTS 408-752-9284 Chromatic Research kflint@chromatic.com http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 01:30:25 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id VAA09818; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 21:01:04 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 21:01:04 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980827205611.007cdc00@unix01.voicenet.com> X-Sender: floyd@unix01.voicenet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 20:56:11 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Floyd Miller Subject: Re: Problem noise from EDP In-Reply-To: References: <19980827020133.12828.qmail@unix01.voicenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"fDZ_o.0.Dg1.5_Vvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1402 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 02:45 AM 8/27/98 -0700, Kim wrote: >At 7:01 PM -0700 8/26/98, Floyd wrote: >> >>When I hold the record button long enough to clear the >>current loop it puts out a noticeable pop, or thump. >>Is there some way to fix this ? > >actually, yes, you should be able to fix that. Requires that you actually >get into the box, though. There's a trimpot on the PCB, near the left >side, by the volume knobs. It's job is to trim a dc offset from a VCA. >Sounds like your's is not set right for some reason, which would cause >the thump you hear. Kim, I found the trimpot and followed the procedure your prescribed. First of all, along with the 60Hz sound from turning the VCA on and off, there was also a warbling kind of a sound that was not affected by the trimpot. However, I was able to pick out the 60Hz tone and get it to a minimum. Actually I think it was alread trimmed to this point when I started. After putting the unti back together I played around a bit to see if the problem was gone. In doing so I realized that the thump noise occurs not when I clear a loop that is playing. Rather, it happens when I press and hold the record button while the EDP is recording. Of course I do this when I flub a loop recording and want to erase it before it has a chance to play at all. So, to summarize: the VCA's DC offset seems to be trimmed to nil, there is no thump when I clear a loop that is playing. There is a thump when I clear a loop in the midst of recording. Is that a known problem with, hopefully, a known solution? **************** ********** Floyd Miller ****** floyd@voicenet.com ** http://www.voicenet.com/~floyd From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 01:30:30 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id VAA16537; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 21:17:00 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 21:17:00 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35E60450.3B43@dmans.com> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 20:13:52 -0500 From: "Mikell D. Nelson" Reply-To: mnelson@dmans.com Organization: Boomerang Musical Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Fwd: FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN References: <2.2.32.19980826215841.00928c44@pop.chromatic.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ohzXG1.0.yW3.RFWvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1403 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > An example of fair use is right in front of you. Stephen used a portion of a > published work of Motley's, verbatim, for the purpose of commenting on it. > Motley had used another's published work before that, in his post, also > verbatim. I'm now "sampling" both of you and reusing your work in this piece > that I am about to publish. Somebody will undoubtedly reuse my creative work > as a part of subsequent comments. In no case did anyone seek permission from > the publisher of the various pieces before doing this. And they don't have > to, because of Fair Use. There is one important difference in this example and the sampling of music for production of other music: an artist is trying to make a living from the original music and the person doing the sampling (copying) is also trying to make money. If the copier doesn't make any money or doesn't reduce the amount of money the originator can make from his creation, then I have no beef. Motley From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 01:30:33 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id VAA31173; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 21:52:05 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 21:52:05 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 21:43:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Adam Levin X-Sender: alevin@ari.ari.net To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: EDP's in Baltimore area Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"cMN9C3.0.5x6.jkWvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1404 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Figured I'd mention that I was in Mars Music up in Towson, MD last weekend and I noticed a familiar looking rack doohickey on display. Being on display, I'd assume that they'd let inquisitive loopy-type folks who have never had the pleasure take it for a ride around (and around and around...) the block. -Adam --- "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue, out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one becomes a Hearer." - Chandrakirti T h e D a r k A e t h e r P r o j e c t http://www.darkaether.net/ From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 01:30:41 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id WAA01794; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 22:00:14 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 22:00:14 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980828015644.00d64e10@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:56:44 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Fwd: FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Resent-Message-ID: <"Q2R952.0.D1.wuWvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1405 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 08:13 PM 8/27/98 -0500, Mikell D. Nelson wrote: >> An example of fair use is right in front of you. Stephen used a portion of a >> published work of Motley's, verbatim, for the purpose of commenting on it. >> Motley had used another's published work before that, in his post, also >> verbatim. I'm now "sampling" both of you and reusing your work in this piece >> that I am about to publish. Somebody will undoubtedly reuse my creative work >> as a part of subsequent comments. In no case did anyone seek permission from >> the publisher of the various pieces before doing this. And they don't have >> to, because of Fair Use. > > There is one important difference in this example and the sampling of >music for production of other music: an artist is trying to make a >living from the original music and the person doing the sampling >(copying) is also trying to make money. If the copier doesn't make any >money or doesn't reduce the amount of money the originator can make from >his creation, then I have no beef. > >Motley Well, from the "10 Big Myths about copyright explained" webpage, helpfully provided by Sean: 2) "If I don't charge for it, it's not a violation." False. Whether you charge can affect the damages awarded in court, but that's essentially the only difference. It's still a violation if you give it away -- and there can still be heavy damages if you hurt the commercial value of the property. Like I said before, money is not necessarily an issue in a copyright violation. However, with Fair Use, one of the legal requirements for something to qualify as fair use has to do with whether the usage infringes on the author's ability to earn from their work. The specific clause for a fair use determination is: (4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work. So if the person using the sample is operating in a completely different market, they are more likely to win a fair use defense. By necessity, someone getting Fair Use would not be interfering with the original author's market. The only available case about sampling dealt with this. 2 Live Crew was sued for using Roy Orbison's Pretty Woman. They won a fair use defense partly because their song was considered a parody, and partly because nobody in their right mind would ever confuse a 2 Live Crew album with a Roy Orbison album! 2 Live Crew's use did not have any effect on the sales of the song by Roy, so Roy's publishing company didn't have much of a case. It doesn't matter if you put a lot of work into creating something and feel you are owed compensation for work done. Copyright (and intellectual property in general) don't work that way. It's all about sales and market size, not sweat. kim ________________________________________________________ Kim Flint, MTS 408-752-9284 Chromatic Research kflint@chromatic.com http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 01:30:43 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id WAA23302; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 22:48:30 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 22:48:30 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: rmenger@mail.groupz.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 22:43:49 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Richard Menger Subject: puffy Resent-Message-ID: <"UBhdm.0.dF5.vbXvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1406 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I agree.. the Summers guitar part is the integral part of the song... If Sting didn't pay Andy he should be beaten severely and possibly sodomized with a long pointy stick.. that would teach him to play nice...hey sting really sucks now anyway..just wanted to throw that in...;-) -Rich From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 01:30:57 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id AAA26801; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 00:17:17 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 00:17:17 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAuAhUAxj+yU8HjGX/VHOgHgsk0/p6aCw8CFQDNMHjOE0UUtolFaZa7CoLflYkpkQ== From: inti@webtv.net (Carlos Carrillo) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 21:06:58 -0700 (PDT) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: I own this, you own that. Message-ID: <9829-35E62CE2-500@mailtod-161.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Resent-Message-ID: <"dNFiJ2.0.Ff5.TqYvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1407 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com It seems that the parties that are actually [RAISING THE FLAG] tm on the issue of copyrights are the record companies, and not necessarily the artists responsible for the work. The ones who always stand to benefit the most from these type of policies are the lawyers and the large corporations that employ them. Not the lowly artist. [DON'T THINK FOR A MINUTE] tm that some [BENEVOLENT FORCE] tm is looking to protect you and I from each other for some wonderfully altruistic reason. [AS LONG AS MONEY IS INVOLVED] tm , someone somewhere will always be ready to [SCREAM BLOODY MURDER] tm. Now, if one of you could please direct me to the clearance department for the above encased phrases so that I may get permission to use them from their owner, lawyer, or whatever entity claims them as property, i'll be [MUCH OBLIGED] tm. Heck, I may as well contact all the dictionaries, royal descendants, academics, universities, barbarians, perverts, and humans in general responsible for the language, colloquialisms, ideas, formulas, grammar, etc, etc. etc, etc, etc that we are constantly "borrowing". No person is original, no person ever shall be. Stop dreaming, it is only [WISHFUL THINKING] tm . :-) :-) :-) :-) ;-) ;-) :-0 :-( ( Oh, oh is this an ifringement? ) Carlos R. Carrillo From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 01:30:58 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id AAA31751; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 00:29:26 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 00:29:26 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35E63112.467E@ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 00:24:50 -0400 From: John Celano Reply-To: ds115@ix.netcom.com Organization: Dreamscape X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-KC032698 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: CD Recorders References: <01bdd1ee$24c2a6c0$cb1bbfa8@0QHC6SIA> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"SdM023.0.GJ7.S4Zvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1408 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Collins wrote: > > Does anyone have any kind of information that i should know about before > purchasing a CD burner. The model i am looking at now is by Sonic Foundry > and is called the CD-Factory. Has anyone out here got one of these or know > someone who does. I want some first hand advice. > Thanks, > Jeff Collins Checkout Cnets review page. It will give a good starting point for evaluating cdr's, specs etc. From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 01:31:01 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id BAA20557; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 01:18:50 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 01:18:50 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Dizfunkt@aol.com Message-ID: > Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 01:04:59 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Sampling-dilemma (no solution offered here). Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"pcASq1.0.0g3.-gZvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1409 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 98-08-27 11:51:27 EDT, you write: << But now "Funky Drummer" is redused to a mere "piece of the puzzle". So why don`t we just have a drum-machine play a beat like "funky drummer"? Because it can`t. To quote Tony Levin: "Now they can make machines sound like real drums , but not like real drummers". The work of James Brown , and in effect Bernard Purdy , is what is beeing protected by copyright law , not simply the context in which it`s placed. Putting death metal guitar on top of "funky drummer" doesn`t change the fact that you`re using their stuff. It`s no better than putting on funky E9-chords and singin` "hhh!" in a hi voice. >> But Purdy isn't gonna get your sample clearence money ,and neither is Brown probably. It's going to go into the pocket of some publishing fat cat. I'd like to at least be able to give the artists I sample credit, but if I did it would be a big red flag saying "sue me". From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 01:31:16 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id EAA32482; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 04:20:28 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 04:20:28 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35E655C7.856E74FF@latrobe.edu.au> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 18:01:26 +1100 From: Brad Knox Reply-To: B.Knox@latrobe.edu.au X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: 'rang II Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"I96u62.0.Xs6.xJcvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1413 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com hey all, just purchased a boomerang (well, couldnt afford a 'plex) and phoned for some info about upgrading the memory... the dude said that in about 2 or so months there would be a software upgrade for the 'rang which would, among other things, split the memory into 2 loops and allow the stack button to be either latching or not. unfortunately, he didnt say too much about improving the sampling rate and the over-the-top fixed feedback (which ive learned to live with). what he did say though was there was a boomerang II in the pipeline... *true stereo* with a higher sampling rate and things like undo and midi... interesting alternative to buying 2 'plexes (btw i love my 'rang and the memory upgrade was a breeze). brad From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 01:31:10 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id DAA16182; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 03:39:17 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 03:39:17 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <001801bdd255$d4f1a020$84084382@hovard> From: "Thomas Whni" To: Subject: Re: Sampling debate Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:31:11 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"YP0Rr1.0.XO3.jrbvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1410 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > >Speaking of Zeppelin credits, did they ever get around to paying Willy >Dixon? This is a valid question , but I think this angle presents problems. Technology is so new that go backwards to find precedents to base the rules on won`t work. Shure , lots of people has gotten ripped off in the past but that can`t be used in defense off ripping off people in the present. Yours , Thomas From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 01:31:13 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id EAA28674; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 04:08:14 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 04:08:14 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: KRosser414@aol.com Message-ID: > Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 03:59:14 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Loopers-Delight-d Digest V98 #109 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Resent-Message-ID: <"a79JE3.0.9B6.0Ecvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1411 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >> I have to admit I have a little trouble feeling sympathy for Negativland or >> the hip-hop community claiming their creativity is being squelched by people >> wanting to be paid for work they are sampling. It seems to me that if you are >> a scavenger sifting through recorded history looking for things that will have >> resonance you would be somewhat aware that there is a debt to be paid to those >> who originated the work since you are dependent upon them. To meet their >> demands before using it doesn't seem like much to ask. If you can meet that >> demand, great. If you can't, move on. To cry "repression" here to me is >> childish in the extreme. >The "demands" very rarely come from the original musicians, since the >musicians so rarely *own* their own music. Trading copyright for >publishing is standard industry practice, and FAR more dispicable than >even the most egregious sampling. IMHO this is a rationalisation that doesn't quite work: Label A is a company owning the work of and "representing the interest of" Artist B. Sampler C decides (without any specific factual basis) the relationship between B and A is somewhat morally questionable to A's unfair advantage, so that frees him up to steal from B's work and say, "That's OK, the real injury was supposed to be A, who had it coming". Is this supposed to make him a hero to B? I don't buy it. >> Is sampling valid in music? Of course, I would agree that it is. But if you >> need to sample a Robert Plant screech from a Zeppelin song, then heavily >> process it, run it backwards, etc. until it's unrecognizable (thereby putting >> you in the clear from owing them anything), to me it begs the question: why >> not just screech into a mic for your damn self then? If the Zeppelin screech >> carries with it such significant mojo that even sliced & diced beyond >> recognition it's something you have to have, then Zeppelin deserves to be >> justly credited and/or compensated for their mojo. I'll go one step further: >> this is not something you should wait to do until a team of Zeppelin lawyers >> comes to your door (frightening bunch, I'm sure). >Speaking of Zeppelin credits, did they ever get around to paying Willy >Dixon? Excellent point. If they haven't they should. I'm not trying to portray Zeppelin or anyone as angels - if they are ripped off, they should be justifiably compensated - if they do the ripping off they should be held accountable. If both apply, fine. >There is *considerable* artistic merit to the possibilities of sampled >re-interpretations of works deeply embedded in the collective unconscious >of popular culture. Agreed. An artist who has produced something "deeply imbedded in the collective unconscious of popular culture" has undoubtedly done a lot of work to do so. Why, as an artist yourself, would you show such blatant disrespect as to not want to acknowledge that? Frankly, I feel this whole thing about wanting to "reinterpret" this deeply ingrained stuff is all about a lot of lazy wanna-be artists looking for coattails. And now they want to whine because corporate record types are making it hard for them? Tough shit, they make it hard on everybody. In all fairness and because I don't want the gist of my argument to be misunderstood, I feel there is some very compelling music being made with sampling which I would not include in the above category. >Remember the story i >told earlier of the encounter between Negativland and The Edge. He >honestly had *no idea* that corporate lawyers purportedly representing his >interests were making life hell for serious artists who reinterpreted his >work. And if he DID? A member of a band as ridiculously pretentious as U2 is going to go to a magazine interview and open himself up to that kind of scrutiny? Why, when you have the luxury of being perceived as the pure and innocent artist since you can go on the record as blaiming the evil, faceless, dark empire of the record company you've contractually chosen to represent you for doing your dirty work? "Honestly no idea"? How do you know? Is it inconcieveable that an artist would paint a dishonestly altruistic picture of himself in an interview for image's sake? $20 says "The Edge" was lying his ass off. It's all over the music press, you and I and countless thousands know about it, but somehow he's blissfully ignorant? Spare me...a pretty unlikely scenario, you'd have to admit. >As for legality, and working against the wishes of others affected by art, >i present U2. One of their videos (don't remember which song now) was a >marvelous act of civil disobedience. I live in LA, I'm very familiar with the incident. I'm sorry, to me it just looked like a gratuitous marketing ploy, shock value tactics like Madonna grabbing her crotch. For an act of civil disobedience to work as such it has to carry a message of some political or social urgency. A bad rock band causing a major traffic jam because they want to film a video with complete disregard to anyone else does not qualify. In retrospect, Madonna grabbing her crotch seems a lot more honest:-) Ken R From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 02:52:13 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id EAA01997; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 04:27:18 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 04:27:18 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <002101bdd25b$a4c3e380$84084382@hovard> From: "Thomas Whni" To: Subject: Re: collage (was:FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 10:12:47 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"J21_l.0.-Y7.jScvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1414 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Kim wrote: >You could just as well take a sample that only existed as a single 5 second >event in the original piece and then loop it in your own. By repetition you >can give something a character it didn't have before, and use that as a base >for recontextualizing the sample in a new piece. I fail to see that recontextualizing a piece of audio changes anything. The second you take the sample out of its context you`ve recontextualised it. This line of thought can lead to conclusions that by simply sampling something you are creating something new. And repeating it doesn`t change the creativity and hard work of those who made it.(If anything it makes it more apparent.) And that is what copyright is meant to protect , right? It`s not meant to "foster" anything , but protect those who put original art out in the public domain. So it all gets more and >more complicated....that's what happens when you start trying to draw a line >somewhere in a completely subjective arena and try to decide what's right >and what's wrong! the line gets moved around a lot. This is very much in sync with what I wrote a few posts back(even though I probably didn`t express it well enough , as usual....). I offered that things like this shouldn`t be judged with "sample-ologists" , paragraphs and microscopes. That it should be a musical approach: "is this sample used as a startingpoint for something new or a plattform to boost your own stuff on?" That said , I think you have to set lines because the law is so open to interpretation now. >As far as sampling a whole groove goes, I think something like a James Brown >groove is a monumental piece of popular culture. For many people, those >sounds and that groove have been an ever-present part of our environment for >most of our lives. If you wanted to make an artistic interpretaion or >comment on that cultural event, I think that quoting that groove would be a >completely valid thing to do. Many listeners would have an immediate >connection to that, which you could then use as a basis for your own >statement. forgive me for asking ,but are you saying here that a sample is validated by quality/cultural impact the original song has had on society? If people have connected with it in the past it`s alright to use it for yourself? I don`t see how we could possibly make distinctions between the quality/popularity of sampling sources , that would open up a whole new can of worms. Who would decide on cultural impact? Where would the line go? Is it better to sample a James Brown beat that sampling a funky John Scofield groove , simply because the latter hasn`t had the popularity of the former? To me this is just another form of borrowing of ideas from one >song to use in another that is very deeply ingrained in western pop and folk >music. All of the music I listen to, from early blues and jazz to the latest >drum and bass, does this constantly. Sampling just gives a new way to do it, >and huge numbers of musicians have found it a completely natural and obvious >thing to do in creating new music. I have to disagree with you there , Kim. I feel there is a BIG difference between studying a recording and learning from a record(like jazz/blues players have done for all time)and recording parts of it and use it in your own music. There has to be a line between interpretating a record and cutting out beit of AUDIO from it. I personally draw a line between the music and the AUDIO. I can steal Jim Hall`s licks and compositional ideas to expand creatively. This is done in the hope that those ideas will evolve in my mind and evolve(or corrode!) into sometinig of my own. But if I sample the very licks and ideas what then? My song will certainly take on a new course in my computer but the exchange of ideas that you`re promoting hasn`t taken place. I would simply have used his stuff to alter/improve my own. Copyright-law protects Jim Hall`s records , not my right to sample from them. Free use or no free use , I truly believe that this is a fact. I may be wrong and I`m shure you`ll set me straight if I am. :-) The wealth of resulting music speaks for >itself, in my opinion. The only people who seem to have a problem with it >are those more interested in commerce and improving their revenue streams >than they are in art and expression, those insecure enough about their >musical proficiency to feel somehow threatened by it, or those cloaking >their negative opinions about dance music and hip-hop in attacks on the >techniques used. Again , if you start taking into consideration the QUALITY of the music relying on samples you open up a can of worms the size of Texas (is Texas big?). Who would decide what is good and bad? And when you use the word "wealth" I trust it that you DON`T mean "It`s valid to sample because there is a wealth of samples/samplers/samplebased songs out there." >Once upon a time, I was totally against the whole practice of sampling, >considering it a complete abomination. (as some of you are expressing.) Just to set the record straight: I`m not against sampling at all. I listen to lots of sample-based music and use samples extensively in my own PC-music. None of what I`ve written on this list is meant to be against sampling. But I do have my own ideas on HOW people should use them and it`s this that I`m imposing on you. :-) Since that time, I've heard a lot of great sample based music, and had a lot >of other arguments presented to me, causing me to honestly rethink tbe whole >thing and reevaluate why I had the opinions I did, and bringing me to an >obviously different conclusion. I couldn't find any solid, supportable >arguments to prop up my old anti-sampling tirades. Maybe it is as you imply here , that you are presenting solid , supportable arguments for sampling, but I think you are kicking in open doors. This discussion about sampling has been about how to use samples in an ethical way(not for/against sampling) . Some might have said that "no samples is the ethical way" but that`s not were it started. Yours , Thomas PS. Let me add that this is the best debate I`ve seen on this list EVER. (besides that whole "unsubscribe-fest" a while back.) From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 01:31:15 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id EAA30155; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 04:13:00 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 04:13:00 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35E666EF.64B5@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 01:14:39 -0700 From: Andre LaFosse Reply-To: altruist@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Sampling debate References: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Z5DfR2.0.YR6.aGcvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1412 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com KRosser414@aol.com wrote: > It seems to me that if you are > a scavenger sifting through recorded history looking for things that will have > resonance you would be somewhat aware that there is a debt to be paid to those > who originated the work since you are dependent upon them. (Hi Ken, how've you been?) This raises another perspective on how the issues of influence and debt gets looked at from a very different point of view when it involves direct sampling, as opposed to personal influence. Here's an example: Let's say I start messing around with someone else's riff or tune on guitar. As I play it, I start altering the notes, the accents, what have you. After a few minutes, I've come up with a different (maybe a wildly different) riff. Now, am I obligated to seek out the composer of the work I started playing and ask their permission to release the end result that I came up with, even if it's unrecognizable from the original source of inspiration? What if I'm playing along with a recording and then start coming up with my own thing, which doesn't exist in any way in the original recording. Or I'm listening to a recording or performance, and suddenly start getting an idea for a different and distinct musical part or plan. Would I be obligated to get permission from the person who wrote the music that inspired me to come up with my own part, even if it bears no audible or tangible evidence of having been derived from their work? To go even further out, would Ornette Coleman be obligated to pay royalties to the man who painted the picture which inspired him to write the tune "Lonely Woman"? If I see a great concert, come home energized and inspired, start playing guitar, and come up with something then and there, am I obligated to obtain permission from or pay back the artist who put on the concert? For me at least, these aren't yes or no questions. They're issues that are worth thinking about in light of this debate, simply because I suspect that nearly everyone here would answer "no" to just about every one of the above questions if it dealt strictly with non-sampled music, since they're more or less part and parcel of the creative process (at least so far as I can tell). We're all "scavengers of music history" in a way. But when it's done in as direct and obvious of a manner as sampling, it gets looked at from a very different perspective. Things like "influence" and "inspiration" are indistinct, subjective things. It's often hard to say with any sort of strict authority that something is obviously indebted to something else (except in extreme or clear-cut cases). Exactly how much an artist might be "in debt" to their source of inspiration can be a difficult thing to try and define in specific terms. On the other hand, a sample is a very objective, fixed thing: You've got your source recording, and then you've got the sample of the thing. Putting the process into such a concrete and objective mechanism puts things in a completely different place. Like I say, I don't think it's a yes or no issue, but it definitely obliges one to re-consider a lot of the things that tend to get taken for granted. > But if you > need to sample a Robert Plant screech from a Zeppelin song, then heavily > process it, run it backwards, etc. until it's unrecognizable (thereby putting > you in the clear from owing them anything), to me it begs the question: why > not just screech into a mic for your damn self then? I know there are some techno musicians who will do this sort of in-depth processing and tweaking on sounds taken directly from nature -- dripping water faucets and the like. They'll tweak them to the point of unrecognizability, often coming up with sounds that maybe aren't all that far removed from a standard synth tone, even though the source was wildly atypical. The reason for this, as in the reason (or at least one possible reason) behind mangling a Robert Plant sample, is that this is part of the craft of what they do, and transforming a familiar sound into a wholly unfamiliar one is an element of their art, in much the same way that a jazz musician might struggle to put their own personal imprint on a standard, even though it might be much easier and more direct to simply write their own set of changes to play over. The sampler is their instrument, and they're obsessed with getting as much out of it as they can -- sort of in the same way that I'm obsessed with trying to get things out of my guitar with my own hands, rather than sampling or sequencing them! > In the question of Fripp's appropriating the work of Hendrix and Holst, I've gotten a couple of rather irate private replies to this bit, so I'm going to try and clarify my point. I wasn't suggesting that Fripp was OK since he apparently hadn't been prosecuted or called to task for these things; I was pointing out one example of a musician borrowing fragments of other people's work in a non-sample-based manner. The reason I used Fripp as an example is because of Stephen's reference to this mailing list being second only to the King Crimson list in terms of insight into performance, and his accordant surprise that there might be so many of us here prepared to defend the wholesale theivery that he sees latent in sample-based music. I was attempting to illustrate the fact that borrowing musical ideas happens all the time, even with musicians who don't sample other's work, who are by all appearances ethical to a fault, and who inspire mailing lists which can boast high standards of live performance critique. In this light, to hold up Fripp as some bastion of originality and debt-free creativity, against which samplists can only wallow in the mire of the callous theivery that is the worm-ridden essence of their craft, seems a bit askew of a perspective. I still think it's interesting that many people (myself included) are often more ready to criticize a samplist for tweaking a source recording beyond recognition than they would be to knock a guitarist for copping an obvious riff. Like I say, I don't think it's a black or white issue, but I do think it demands that we re-examine a lot of the assumptions we hold about music making in general. > You may find a way to use it legally against the creator's wishes. How > someone could do that and keep a clear conscience is a bit beyond me. Once again, I think it's worthwhile to draw some analogies to the non-sampling world. If I write a piece of music inspired by a particular artist, and then somewhere down the road I find out that the artist in question hates the piece (even if it contains no obvious references or quotes of their work), should I feel an obligation to banish or destroy the piece? If I study with a teacher and absorb some of his techniques and ideas, and then use those ideas in outlets that he doesn't care for or find musically rewarding, do I need to stop doing what I'm doing, even if it seems like the natural and logical thing for me to do? No answers to any of these from me... But important things to think about in the midst of this sort of discussion, I'd say. --Andre From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 02:52:26 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id EAA05492; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 04:38:38 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 04:38:38 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <002a01bdd25c$0923b080$84084382@hovard> From: "Thomas Whni" To: , Subject: Re: "Pretty" Purdie Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 10:15:35 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"M6B6N2.0.qn7.NVcvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1415 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >Lets not forget Bernard Purdie's mighty work on lots of Steely Dan >classics... > >andre' I Think I heard Purdie`s name mentioned in connection with the mighty MOTOWN label, too. Am I nuts? (-----------retorical question. From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 02:52:17 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id EAA06283; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 04:41:32 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 04:41:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <002f01bdd25c$b05497c0$84084382@hovard> From: "Thomas Whni" To: Subject: Re: collage (was:FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 10:20:16 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"1zyzf3.0.ZA.mZcvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1416 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >- Eddie Van Halen, when being shit on about "Right Now" being used in a beer >commercial or some such enterprise, responded that if he didn't liscense the >song, the beer company would just hire session musicians to record a sound- >alike version, pay the (pittance) royalty associated with covering the song, >and VH would get nothing, compared to what they got for the use of the song. Yep , "soundalikes" is a familiar term in the session world. Happens every day , I believe. But couldn`t Van Halen deny them the right to cover his song? Andrew Loyd webber does it all the time. His tall , strong lawyers stopped a high-school performance of "Phantom of the Opera" here in Norway. The moms and dads were reputedly "not worried" because there was lots of stuff on TV that day.......:-) Yours , Thomas From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 02:52:18 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id EAA08769; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 04:49:41 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 04:49:41 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980828012237.00ba8ec0@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: sean_@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 01:22:37 -0700 To: From: Sean Echevarria Subject: Re: 'rang II In-Reply-To: <35E655C7.856E74FF@latrobe.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"YDNgL1.0.2L.abcvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1417 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Sounds like someone's been watching the list wish-list (list wish-list list) At 06:01 PM 8/28/98 +1100, Brad wrote: >with). what he did say though was there was a boomerang II in the pipeline... >*true stereo* with a higher sampling rate and things like undo and midi... From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 02:52:19 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id EAA09531; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 04:52:08 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 04:52:08 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <003601bdd25d$4d480940$84084382@hovard> From: "Thomas Whni" To: Subject: Re: Sampling debate Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 10:24:38 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"rfWCB2.0.rW.udcvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1418 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Bill wrote: >But is it the artists who are up in arms? (Anywhere but this list?) Or is it >the record companies who are so deathly afraid now that they might "give away" >the possible percentage of the next "Can't Touch This?" Did you call the Edge up and ask him? If so, his reply was pretty cool!!! If I was you I`d ask him to come over and plug into your Soundblaster and bang away!! (Tell him you`ve got that case of guinnes and that you`d pay bus-fare BOTH ways) Good luck , Thomas From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 02:52:20 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id EAA09983; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 04:53:49 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 04:53:49 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <004501bdd25d$e7f7a540$84084382@hovard> From: "Thomas Whni" To: Subject: Re: Fwd: FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 10:28:58 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"2-RZX3.0.4t.vhcvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1419 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > >" - Music examples of more than 4 measures;" I don`t know where this is from , but it is wrong.There are no time-limitations listed in any laws. If there is then Norway is different from your laws. Let me know , ok? Yours, Thomas From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 02:52:21 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id FAA12254; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 05:00:41 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 05:00:41 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <004e01bdd25e$66ba8320$84084382@hovard> From: "Thomas Whni" To: Subject: Re: Jam Man For Sale Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 10:32:31 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"a11p7.0.I81.Hlcvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1420 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >Best offer over $400 get's it.......... Is there a connection here? half of the LD-lists members wind themselves up in some debate/loop and the other half starts dropping their looping gear. "JEEZ ,Flo , I`m gittin` outta here. Look what this machine`s done to `em!" Is there a pattern?? huh??? IS the truth out there???? Yours , Thomas From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 05:06:21 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id EAA10920; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 04:56:42 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 04:56:42 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <007201bdd25e$8dee37c0$0d01a8c0@Remote> From: "Steve Lauder" To: Subject: Re: This Sampling debate Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:33:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"1O9Mv1.0.md1.8scvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1422 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Just wanted to change the tone a little on this debate. Why, with such a diversity of license free sample distributors, should anyone want to take the risk of using copyrighted material? The quality of many of these samples, and the inspiration they provide are just as good as (if not better) many commercial tunes. G-Zero is probably my favourite at the minute - a lot of fresh stuff in their CDs, and everything I've created using them has sounded totally original. In the UK, the top sample distributor is Time and Space ( www.timespace.com ) and I'm sure there must be equivalents in the states (where I presume most people on this list are from). Just a thought... Steve Lauder From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 02:52:22 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id FAA12684; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 05:01:57 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 05:01:57 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <005b01bdd25e$e61d98a0$84084382@hovard> From: "Thomas Whni" To: Subject: Re: puffy Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 10:36:05 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"zxPlF1.0.XN1.aocvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1421 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >I agree.. the Summers guitar part is the integral part of the song... If Sting didn't pay Andy he should be beaten severely and possibly sodomized with a long pointy stick.. that would teach him to play nice...hey sting really sucks now anyway..just wanted to throw that in...;-) >-Rich Kim , save Rich a seat on yer way to hell...........BTW , Miles don`t want ya in his band, you pervert! :-) Yours, Thomas From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 02:52:25 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id FAA16398; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 05:11:02 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 05:11:02 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <006b01bdd260$6fe342a0$84084382@hovard> From: "Thomas Whni" To: Subject: Re: Sampling-dilemma (no solution offered here). Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 10:47:06 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"VgMi4.0.hA2.tycvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1423 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > But Purdy isn't gonna get your sample clearence money ,and neither is Brown >probably. It's going to go into the pocket of some publishing fat cat. I'd >like to at least be able to give the artists I sample credit, but if I did it >would be a big red flag saying "sue me". You are right about this. I hadn`t really considered that fact , sorry. But I do feel that the principle of my argument still applies. That if you don`t wanna pay for it you should find an alternate route. And while chopping the beat up and rendering it "inrecognizable" is a valid way. Of course , you`d no longer have a funky beat like "funky Drummer" but you`d be on your way to something........how about slowing down/chopping up a jungle-beat to create a funky drummer type thang? These are better alternatives (in my book) than using funky drummer as is. Yours , Thomas From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 02:52:24 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id FAA17050; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 05:12:49 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 05:12:49 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <007401bdd261$137a8860$84084382@hovard> From: "Thomas Whni" To: , Subject: Re: Sampling debate Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 10:51:40 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"7endQ.0._W2.D1dvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1424 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >Here's an example: Let's say I start messing around with someone else's >riff or tune on guitar. As I play it, I start altering the notes, the >accents, what have you. After a few minutes, I've come up with a >different (maybe a wildly different) riff. Now, am I obligated to seek >out the composer of the work I started playing and ask their permission >to release the end result that I came up with, even if it's >unrecognizable from the original source of inspiration? No of course not. But now you are not using the audio(= hard work) of the original. That`s the only thing copyright can protect: the final product. IF your riff sounds nothing like the original then what`s the problem? That what the law says (in effect). But if you sample the riff you`d obviously SOUND like the origanal and his work will be yours. And that`s wrong. I feel. In my opinion. Gimme a hug. Yors , Thomas From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 02:52:27 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id FAA23592; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 05:28:23 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 05:28:23 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: RE: Problem noise from EDP Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 02:07:12 -0700 Message-ID: <001501bdd263$3f67bb80$d123dacf@stepheng> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980827205611.007cdc00@unix01.voicenet.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"EUgUQ1.0.sg3.GDdvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1425 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I never thought I'd sigh with relief at seeing a Gear message! And I have neither an EDP nor Jamman. :) Stephen Goodman - It's... The Loop Of The Week! EarthLight Studios - http://www.earthlight.net/Studios From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 11:14:40 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id IAA01609; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 08:31:06 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 08:31:06 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <004501bdd25d$e7f7a540$84084382@hovard> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 03:16:26 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Fwd: FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN Resent-Message-ID: <"mRk-61.0.Wz5.Nsfvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1427 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 1:28 AM -0700 8/28/98, Thomas Whni wrote: >> >>" - Music examples of more than 4 measures;" > > > >I don`t know where this is from , but it is wrong.There are no >time-limitations >listed in any laws. If there is then Norway is different from your laws. >Let me know , ok? > >Yours, Thomas you removed the surrounding context, wherein it was noted that this is a guideline employed by a publisher for when they feel it's important to seek permission or not. That was pretty clearly explained on the copyright info web page this came from, which was referenced, and which you probably didn't actually read, eh? :-) And for fair use, one of the clauses has to do with how much of the original is quoted. There is no clear amount stated in the laws, but in a fair use argument in court, whether you are using 1% or 99% would be considered. So that is a vague sort of time limit on fair use. I think that is why this particular publisher had created the list of guidelines on this website. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 05:06:24 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id HAA30857; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 07:05:14 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 07:05:14 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: PJBMHB@aol.com Message-ID: <3b1353b6.35e68c5a@aol.com>> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 06:54:18 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re:DOD 8 Second Delay Pedal Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Resent-Message-ID: <"auQ4b3.0.6X6.Hoevr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1426 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com has anyone ever tried one of these yet? are they in stores? anyone own one? how are they? thanks for the info., =-) PJ From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 11:14:41 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id IAA02569; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 08:33:20 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 08:33:20 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <002101bdd25b$a4c3e380$84084382@hovard> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 05:04:52 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: collage (was:FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN) Resent-Message-ID: <"BOqj-1.0.A-5.Rsfvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1428 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >Kim wrote: >>You could just as well take a sample that only existed as a single 5 second >>event in the original piece and then loop it in your own. By repetition you >>can give something a character it didn't have before, and use that as a base >>for recontextualizing the sample in a new piece. > >I fail to see that recontextualizing a piece of audio changes anything. The >second you take the sample out of its context you`ve recontextualised it. >This >line of thought can lead to conclusions that by simply sampling something >you are creating something new. no, a sample just by itself wouldn't be "recontextualized". That term usually means that you have placed the sample into some completely different environment, where it takes on some completely new meaning. It requires actual work to create that new environment and some artistic concept that defines the new context and what it means. >And repeating it doesn`t change the creativity and hard work of those who >made it. I think you missed the point I was making there, which actually had nothing to do with sampling rights. I was saying that repetition itself has an effect on people and is a useful musical statement to make. That's what looping is largely about, right? The specific point here was that something that had only occured once, can take on significantly new meanings when repeated. Like the time I went to a Queensryche concert (hey, they were really cool once...:-) and they had a video screen, which wasn't so common at the time. They were doing their full-blown operation:mindcrime metal-opera thing. At some point, the word "sex" appeared on the big screen. The crowd roared; everybody likes sex. But the word kept coming back, and coming back, and coming back. and the song was about manipulation and such things, and the crowd was definitely not roaring about sex after it had been constantly blinking at them for a while. Repetition had changed the meaning completely.....it was a really cool effect. That's the sort of thing I mean by taking a single event and repeating it to change it's meaning. >(If anything it makes it more apparent.) And that is what copyright is meant >to protect , right? It`s not meant to "foster" anything , but protect those >who put original art out in the public domain. Well, no, copyright is not there to protect "hard work". It exists to encourage the ongoing development of new ideas. Like I said before, this is very different from things like Patents, and trademarks, or property, or even your own labor. It doesn't matter if you spent 3 years on something or whether you drank a lot of tequila and the next day thought the thing scribbled all over your wall is pretty cool so you publish it. One part of this encouragment of new ideas is that authors are granted some limited rights to control how their work is reproduced. This keeps them from getting ripped off by counterfeiters or pirates, so they are not afraid to publish their work. A balancing part of copyright allows others to use that work is some limited fashion according to fair use rules, which prevents someone from stifiling ongoing creativity by refusing to allow anyone to reuse any portion of the work. Again, check the numerous references cited so far, these concepts are explained in many places. I understand the feeling of "I worked hard on this, I worked hard to learn how to do this, I should get compensation for it." But the fact of the matter is that this has nothing to do with copyright. You might have some moral issue about that, fine. But copyright law and this particular "I paid my dues" issue are not related. With intellectual property, you can bust your ass for years and make $5 because nobody cares about your work, or have a funny dream and turn it into $50mil. The law has nothing to do with the effort applied, but the result at the end. >>As far as sampling a whole groove goes, I think something like a James Brown >>groove is a monumental piece of popular culture. For many people, those >>sounds and that groove have been an ever-present part of our environment for >>most of our lives. If you wanted to make an artistic interpretaion or >>comment on that cultural event, I think that quoting that groove would be a >>completely valid thing to do. Many listeners would have an immediate >>connection to that, which you could then use as a basis for your own >>statement. > >forgive me for asking ,but are you saying here that a sample is validated >by quality/cultural impact the original song has had on society? If people >have connected with it in the past it`s alright to use it for yourself? I >don`t see how we could possibly make distinctions between the >quality/popularity >of sampling sources , that would open up a whole new can of worms. Who >would decide on cultural impact? Where would the line go? as is stated many times in the various bits of literature cited, for copyright issues these decisions have to be made on an individual basis. It's stated in the legal opinions that these issues are too difficult to place general guidelines on them, and must be considered for each case. However, I was speaking about the actual artistic event there, not sampling rights. I think you need to put yourself in another's shoes to understand this. I'm someone who grew up using and programming computers, and digital media, and video games, and tv, and the whole bit. Noisy cultural stuff coming at me from all directions. "Copy and Paste" is a totally natural thing for me to do. People 10 years younger than me, it's even more natural. 5-10 years younger than that and you've got kids making web sites before they can read. Concepts of artistic creation are radically changing, and not everybody is involved in it or understanding it. But for me and many others, copy and paste of a james brown groove would be a completely natural thing to do in creating a new piece of music. *for me*, it would be critical that it be exact, including all bits of weird reverb and noise crud and early 70's eq styles and whatever. If you've spent 20 years trying to play as well as Jim Hall, I understand you might not get this. (I've also devoted years trying to play guitar like that....it took me a while to get the aesthetic too.) >Is it better to >sample a James Brown beat that sampling a funky John Scofield groove , >simply because >the latter hasn`t had the popularity of the former? well, yes, I think so for the purposes I would do it. I would be interested in capturing the James Brown vibe that has come out of car stereos and tv's and boom boxes and neighbor's stereo's all my life and created the sonic environment I live in. If I want to recreate that environment in a piece of music, than for me, having a sample of it is the only real way. Playing that groove would be very difficult to get right, but probably possible. But the creative process would wrong for me. The copy and paste element would be a key element of the creation. > To me this is just another form of borrowing of ideas from one >>song to use in another that is very deeply ingrained in western pop and folk >>music. All of the music I listen to, from early blues and jazz to the latest >>drum and bass, does this constantly. Sampling just gives a new way to do it, >>and huge numbers of musicians have found it a completely natural and obvious >>thing to do in creating new music. > >I have to disagree with you there , Kim. I feel there is a BIG difference >between studying a recording and learning from a record(like jazz/blues >players have done for all time)and >recording parts of it and use it in your own music. There has to be a line >between interpretating a record and cutting out beit of AUDIO from it. >I personally draw a line between the music and the AUDIO. I can steal Jim >Hall`s licks and compositional ideas to expand creatively. This is done in >the hope that those ideas will evolve in my mind and evolve(or corrode!) >into sometinig of my own. But if I sample the very licks and ideas what >then? My song will certainly take on a new course in my computer but the >exchange of ideas that you`re promoting hasn`t taken place. I would simply >have used his stuff to alter/improve my own. Copyright-law protects Jim >Hall`s records , not my right to sample from them. Free use or no free use >, I truly believe >that this is a fact. I may be wrong and I`m shure you`ll set me straight >if I am. :-) It seems to me, you are getting caught up in some need to protect the investment you have in your craft, and not thinking strictly about the resulting value of the artistic result. You want the effort you've applied to it to be worth something. Or more likely, you are desperately hoping that it isn't worth nothing. To me, that's just a form of arrogance that musicians have, trying to prove they are somehow deserving of special credit or respect for the craft they have developed on an instrument. And you probably are, but the best place to find it will be in charging for it as a session player, not in judgements of art. When it comes to judging the artistic merit of a particular piece, the number of years the creator spent studying is usually not much of a consideration! And with copyright, effort spent means nothing at all. copyright has nothing to do with that. Now, don't get me wrong, I understand this musician-ego thing. I've been there. I devoted a significant portion of my life to being the fastest guitarist in the world, and probably came fairly close to succeeding. It was really, really important to me then that others see how well I could play. Not coincidentally, that's also the time when I thought samplers and sequencers were "cheating". That wasn't "real" music. Well, now I sit before you to say that's all a load of crap. What matters is the musical result, the skills involved are just tools for that end. When you get all caught up in the tools of creation, you lose sight of the whole point, in my opinion. It took me a long time to get past all that player-ego nonsense, and I'm really glad I did. The result matters to me now. Whether I sampled it or sequenced it or played it all in one glorious take is all the same to me, whatever gets the result and whatever works for me as a creative process. And now, when I hear a great piece of music, I just accept it for that. Did they play it all themselves, or sample it completely? I don't care. If I like it, it's good. And likewise, if you sample Jim Hall or play exactly like Jim Hall, that's also the same to me. and you know what? It will be the same to most of the audience too. They mostly don't care about how it's created, just if it's good and if they like it. It's only anally-retentive musicians that get caught up in these games. And the guy who samples things completely and does nothing to it? He's a beginner!! For god's sake, a new guitar player or drummer does exactly the same thing. You don't reinterpret anything or try to make some grand art when you're just learning your way around your instrument. Beginning guitarists play Stevie Ray Vaughn note for note, beginning samplists loop "funky drummer" without changing it. In both cases, they sometimes feel good about what they've done and put it out there for others. So what? give 'em a chance to develop. Nobody's going to pick up a sampler and become Aphex Twin overnight! kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 11:14:35 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id IAA27280 for kflint@annihilist.com; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 08:14:37 -0400 Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 08:14:37 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-From_: Mark@asisoftware.com Fri Aug 28 08:14:33 1998 Received: from asint.asisoftware.com ([206.84.184.193]) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) with ESMTP id IAA27235 for ; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 08:14:33 -0400 Received: from mark.asisoftware.com ([206.84.184.197]) by asint.asisoftware.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO205e ID# 135-41775U100L2S100) with SMTP id AAA141; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 08:17:07 -0400 Message-ID: <000501bdd27d$4048cde0$c5b854ce@mark.asisoftware.com> From: Mark@asisoftware.com (Mark Kata) To: "Trish Ludwig" , "Sheri Kovalsky" , "Sasha Barskiy" , "Phil Haar" , "Patrick Neckolaishen" , "Mark Moylan" , "Mark Kata" , "Marina Ivanov" , "Maria Biundo" , "LuAnne Mandeville" , "Loopers Delight" , "John McClure" , "John D. Tonkovich" , "Jim Kovalsky" , "Heidi Rosenzweig" , "Hans Mills" , "Glenn Kata - work" , "Glenn Kata - home" , "Gary Ross" , "Donna Laciak" , "Don Weiss" , "Carolyn Rosenzweig" , "Carole Paulsen" , "Bob Walkowski" , "Bernie Cadaret" , "Alex Margolin" Subject: Old-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 08:13:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Diagnostic: undecipherable, help sent X-Envelope-To: Loopers-Delight Hi, If you have a credit card from First USA Bank, please contact me. Someone tried to scam me last night. MK From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 11:14:50 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id IAA07094; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 08:44:05 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 08:44:05 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <006501bdd27e$726b7880$c5b854ce@mark.asisoftware.com> From: Mark@asisoftware.com (Mark Kata) To: "Loopers Delight" Subject: Sorry Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 08:21:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"pSWkP1.0.5Y7.R4gvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1429 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Sorry about posting the message about the credit card scam. I sent it to Loopers-Delight by mistake. Mark Kata Mark@asisoftware.com From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 11:15:02 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id JAA16578; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:06:27 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:06:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <002001bdd282$12ef5c60$dc0a4382@hovard> From: "Thomas Whni" To: Subject: Re: Fwd: FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 14:47:52 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"RFLfZ.0.tT2.cUgvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1430 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com you removed the surrounding context, wherein it was noted that this is a guideline employed by a publisher for when they feel it's important to seek permission or not. That was pretty clearly explained on the copyright info web page this came from, which was referenced, and which you probably didn't actually read, eh? :-) Haha BUSTED!! Yep you`re right , I didn`t read it and I shouldn`t have commented on it. It`s just that I was on a roll having replied to 8-9 messages. That`s a new personal high and I just couldn`t stop! :-) When I checked my mail now I saw exactly HOW many messages I had written. Needless to say I`m quite embarassed......... Anyways , I`ll lay low for a while and I`m sorry for wasting the bandwith. Yours , Thomas From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 11:15:10 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id JAA26687; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:29:52 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:29:52 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <002701bdd284$a8367860$dc0a4382@hovard> From: "Thomas Whni" To: Subject: Re: collage (was:FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 15:06:22 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"ByCqL.0.2N4.xlgvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1431 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hi Kim , I think our little thread has gotten out of hand. We are cutting parts of each others comments out of context and replying to them and missing each others points. I realize now that I have misunderstood the things you were saying and I know you certainly misunderstood me. At the end of this I want to make a few things clear so that our "miscommunication" doesn`t alter our perception of each other. 1. I did not spend 20 years trying to play like Jim Hall beacause I was born 20 years ago. 2. I`m totally into sampling and my dream is actually affording one some day. 3. I see nothing artistically wrong with sampling or cutting out audio >from other people`s work. 4. 50 percent of the time I spend with my computer I spend "sampling" with cubase,cool edit and Acid. Thank you for an interesting debate , though I wish it could happen in real-time to avoid misunderstandings. Yours , Thomas PS. Just got "Hard normal Daddy" (Squarepusher) and it`s awesome. That guy is an inspiration. From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 11:15:14 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id JAA05986; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:58:04 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:58:04 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35E6B34A.6D0A824@Pirnie.com> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:40:26 -0400 From: "Lee Wordsman" Reply-To: Lwordsman@pirnie.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Sentences running off the page. References: <002701bdd284$a8367860$dc0a4382@hovard> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"x5N-d.0.3q7.gEhvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1432 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Thomas, I can't speak for everyone else but your messages run way off the page. I know Kim once addressed this problem but I can't recall the solution. Maybe he could post it one more time. By the way, you are not the only offender here just the most prolific. :} Lee Thomas Whni wrote: > > Hi Kim , I think our little thread has gotten out of hand. We are cutting parts > of each others comments out of context and replying to them and missing each others points. I realize now that I have misunderstood the things you were saying and I know you certainly misunderstood me. At the end of this I want to make a few things clear so that our "miscommunication" doesn`t alter our perception of each other. > > 1. I did not spend 20 years trying to play like Jim Hall beacause I was born 20 years ago. > 2. I`m totally into sampling and my dream is actually affording one some day. > 3. I see nothing artistically wrong with sampling or cutting out audio from other people`s work. > 4. 50 percent of the time I spend with my computer I spend "sampling" with cubase,cool edit and Acid. > > Thank you for an interesting debate , though I wish it could happen in real-time to avoid misunderstandings. > > Yours , Thomas > > PS. Just got "Hard normal Daddy" (Squarepusher) and it`s awesome. That guy is an inspiration. From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 11:15:54 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA02620; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 11:08:06 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 11:08:06 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35E6C5E6.9CD77D31@intcpi.com> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 10:59:53 -0400 From: "John Price" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: altruist@earthlink.net CC: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Sampling debate - Warning ! The word Fripp is Contained in this Message. References: > <35E666EF.64B5@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fh0X8.0.OQ7.EKivr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1434 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Ya know that riff fripp used on the sylvian cut that sounded like hendrix...its a rip of the same riff he used on his solo album exposure, ... ya know the tune - "My house - Your House - Theres the door, so get out" song. Fripp plays the riff a lot faster on exposure but its the very same riff. I cant remember the specific name of the track on Exposure but I know theres a ton of Frippheaded Math Rockers out there who will definitely know what track i'm talkin bout. When I first heard that riff on Exposure I said to myself hmmmmm, its a Hendrix rip kinda just like Andre. An even funnier thing is that when I heard Fripp using it again on the sylvian track i said, ... hmmmm, fripps' repeatin himself. I didnt even register it as a hendrix riff anymore until Andre mentioned it. Just an observation. Aint it funny how perceptions can change over time ??? Warm Regards, JP Andre LaFosse wrote: > KRosser414@aol.com wrote: > > > It seems to me that if you are > > a scavenger sifting through recorded history looking for things that will have > > resonance you would be somewhat aware that there is a debt to be paid to those > > who originated the work since you are dependent upon them. > > (Hi Ken, how've you been?) > > This raises another perspective on how the issues of influence and debt > gets looked at from a very different point of view when it involves > direct sampling, as opposed to personal influence. > > Here's an example: Let's say I start messing around with someone else's > riff or tune on guitar. As I play it, I start altering the notes, the > accents, what have you. After a few minutes, I've come up with a > different (maybe a wildly different) riff. Now, am I obligated to seek > out the composer of the work I started playing and ask their permission > to release the end result that I came up with, even if it's > unrecognizable from the original source of inspiration? > > What if I'm playing along with a recording and then start coming up with > my own thing, which doesn't exist in any way in the original recording. > Or I'm listening to a recording or performance, and suddenly start > getting an idea for a different and distinct musical part or plan. > Would I be obligated to get permission from the person who wrote the > music that inspired me to come up with my own part, even if it bears no > audible or tangible evidence of having been derived from their work? > > To go even further out, would Ornette Coleman be obligated to pay > royalties to the man who painted the picture which inspired him to write > the tune "Lonely Woman"? If I see a great concert, come home energized > and inspired, start playing guitar, and come up with something then and > there, am I obligated to obtain permission from or pay back the artist > who put on the concert? > > For me at least, these aren't yes or no questions. They're issues that > are worth thinking about in light of this debate, simply because I > suspect that nearly everyone here would answer "no" to just about every > one of the above questions if it dealt strictly with non-sampled music, > since they're more or less part and parcel of the creative process (at > least so far as I can tell). We're all "scavengers of music history" in > a way. But when it's done in as direct and obvious of a manner as > sampling, it gets looked at from a very different perspective. > > Things like "influence" and "inspiration" are indistinct, subjective > things. It's often hard to say with any sort of strict authority that > something is obviously indebted to something else (except in extreme or > clear-cut cases). Exactly how much an artist might be "in debt" to > their source of inspiration can be a difficult thing to try and define > in specific terms. On the other hand, a sample is a very objective, > fixed thing: You've got your source recording, and then you've got the > sample of the thing. Putting the process into such a concrete and > objective mechanism puts things in a completely different place. > > Like I say, I don't think it's a yes or no issue, but it definitely > obliges one to re-consider a lot of the things that tend to get taken > for granted. > > > But if you > > need to sample a Robert Plant screech from a Zeppelin song, then heavily > > process it, run it backwards, etc. until it's unrecognizable (thereby putting > > you in the clear from owing them anything), to me it begs the question: why > > not just screech into a mic for your damn self then? > > I know there are some techno musicians who will do this sort of in-depth > processing and tweaking on sounds taken directly from nature -- dripping > water faucets and the like. They'll tweak them to the point of > unrecognizability, often coming up with sounds that maybe aren't all > that far removed from a standard synth tone, even though the source was > wildly atypical. > > The reason for this, as in the reason (or at least one possible reason) > behind mangling a Robert Plant sample, is that this is part of the craft > of what they do, and transforming a familiar sound into a wholly > unfamiliar one is an element of their art, in much the same way that a > jazz musician might struggle to put their own personal imprint on a > standard, even though it might be much easier and more direct to simply > write their own set of changes to play over. The sampler is their > instrument, and they're obsessed with getting as much out of it as they > can -- sort of in the same way that I'm obsessed with trying to get > things out of my guitar with my own hands, rather than sampling or > sequencing them! > > > In the question of Fripp's appropriating the work of Hendrix and Holst, > > I've gotten a couple of rather irate private replies to this bit, so I'm > going to try and clarify my point. I wasn't suggesting that Fripp was > OK since he apparently hadn't been prosecuted or called to task for > these things; I was pointing out one example of a musician borrowing > fragments of other people's work in a non-sample-based manner. > > The reason I used Fripp as an example is because of Stephen's reference > to this mailing list being second only to the King Crimson list in terms > of insight into performance, and his accordant surprise that there might > be so many of us here prepared to defend the wholesale theivery that he > sees latent in sample-based music. I was attempting to illustrate the > fact that borrowing musical ideas happens all the time, even with > musicians who don't sample other's work, who are by all appearances > ethical to a fault, and who inspire mailing lists which can boast high > standards of live performance critique. > > In this light, to hold up Fripp as some bastion of originality and > debt-free creativity, against which samplists can only wallow in the > mire of the callous theivery that is the worm-ridden essence of their > craft, seems a bit askew of a perspective. > > I still think it's interesting that many people (myself included) are > often more ready to criticize a samplist for tweaking a source recording > beyond recognition than they would be to knock a guitarist for copping > an obvious riff. Like I say, I don't think it's a black or white > issue, but I do think it demands that we re-examine a lot of the > assumptions we hold about music making in general. > > > You may find a way to use it legally against the creator's wishes. How > > someone could do that and keep a clear conscience is a bit beyond me. > > Once again, I think it's worthwhile to draw some analogies to the > non-sampling world. If I write a piece of music inspired by a > particular artist, and then somewhere down the road I find out that the > artist in question hates the piece (even if it contains no obvious > references or quotes of their work), should I feel an obligation to > banish or destroy the piece? If I study with a teacher and absorb some > of his techniques and ideas, and then use those ideas in outlets that he > doesn't care for or find musically rewarding, do I need to stop doing > what I'm doing, even if it seems like the natural and logical thing for > me to do? > > No answers to any of these from me... But important things to think > about in the midst of this sort of discussion, I'd say. > > --Andre From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 11:16:06 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA20347; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 11:48:41 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 11:48:41 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Edward_Chang@mail.amsinc.com X-Lotus-FromDomain: AMSINC To: Lwordsman@pirnie.com cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Message-ID: <8525666E.0051758E.00@ams-central-gate-5a.amsinc.com> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 11:15:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Sentences running off the page. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"YdiTG3.0.qk3.Swivr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1435 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com That's funny, because on my screen it looks the best. All my other posts come in a font that's too big for the width of my screen. Ethically, I'd have to say that the amount of money I make is disproportionately equal to the font size of my posts, therefore everyone gets hurt. But at the same time, using the Bernard Purdie speech from the Puff Daddy / Andy Summers golf face-off would be a direct violation of Robert Fripp's FAQ about his interview with Willie Dixon, who had no idea he was a blues musician. But who knows, he was probably lying. Seriously tho, I've been trying to look at this issue from the sampling 'dissers' and beyond the fair use issue and into the so-called ethical issue. I guess I have no problem sampling a couple seconds from a "Big Star" because 1. I will be losing money and 2. the Big Star won't be losing money (or audience) and 3. I don't use the sample in a derogatory way (in fact I usually hope my sample source will get a kick out of it) 4. It's always recognizable as "a sample" in my pieces, so it's not like I'm trying to trick my audience 5. To not sample would be the same as censorship of creative expression. If to some people that's stealing, well then I quote Stravinsky quoted by John Zorn (see Now I give credit!): "A great composer doesn't borrow ideas, he steals!" (or something to that effect). Now if any of the above changed, then I would see it morally correct to pay for sample use. I'm still thinking about that looping James Brown thing tho...I'm on the fence with that one....a whole piece based on one sample...that sounds a bit too easy...? >>Thomas, I can't speak for everyone else but your messages run way off the page. I know Kim once addressed this problem but I can't recall the solution. Maybe he could post it one more time. By the way, you are not the only offender here just the most prolific. :} Lee<< Thomas Whni wrote: > > Hi Kim , I think our little thread has gotten out of hand. We are cutting parts > of each others comments out of context and replying to them and missing each others points. I realize now that I have misunderstood the things you were saying and I know you certainly misunderstood me. At the end of this I want to make a few things clear so that our "miscommunication" doesn`t alter our perception of each other. > > 1. I did not spend 20 years trying to play like Jim Hall beacause I was born 20 years ago. > 2. I`m totally into sampling and my dream is actually affording one some day. > 3. I see nothing artistically wrong with sampling or cutting out audio >from other people`s work. > 4. 50 percent of the time I spend with my computer I spend "sampling" with cubase,cool edit and Acid. > > Thank you for an interesting debate , though I wish it could happen in real-time to avoid misunderstandings. > > Yours , Thomas > > PS. Just got "Hard normal Daddy" (Squarepusher) and it`s awesome. That guy is an inspiration. From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 11:15:35 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id KAA20238; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 10:32:27 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 10:32:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199808281422.HAA25242@scv3.apple.com> Subject: Zeppelin Dixon Payments Date: Fri, 28 Aug 98 09:24:43 -0600 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"FhuMx1.0.UM4.8uhvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1433 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >>Speaking of Zeppelin credits, did they ever get around to paying Willy >>Dixon? A few years ago, I read that they had. I also remember reading that a number of Chicago-area bluesman of that era were grumbling about how adept Dixon was at "borrowing" their best stuff and saying that he wrote it... Travis Hartnett From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 11:16:19 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA04022; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 12:26:57 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 12:26:57 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: rmenger@mail.groupz.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <35E6C5E6.9CD77D31@intcpi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 12:18:32 -0400 To: "John Price" From: Richard Menger Subject: Re: Sampling debate - Warning ! The word Fripp is Contained in this Message. Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Resent-Message-ID: <"wPVKN2.0.KD.vXjvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1436 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Yeah it's kinda funny... Fripp was a big Hendrix fan....even though "he had no idea how to hold a pick" ;-) -Rich From ???@??? Fri Aug 28 11:16:23 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA22958; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 13:10:01 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 13:10:01 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <018701bdd2a5$98616b40$c5b854ce@mark.asisoftware.com> From: Mark@asisoftware.com (Mark Kata) To: "Loopers Delight" Subject: Hypothetical Question Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 13:02:05 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"uTw7r.0.6z4.bBkvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1437 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com If your looper had 10 minutes of looping time, what would you do with it? How would it affect your music? Mark Kata Mark@asisoftware.com From ???@??? Sat Aug 29 00:07:29 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA15485; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 14:07:53 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 14:07:53 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: joseph devlin Message-Id: <199808281800.OAA18203@bert.WPI.EDU> Subject: Re: Hypothetical Question To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 14:00:02 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <018701bdd2a5$98616b40$c5b854ce@mark.asisoftware.com> from "Mark Kata" at Aug 28, 98 01:02:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"y09Yk3.0.003.m0lvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1438 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > > If your looper had 10 minutes of looping time, what would you do with it? > How would it affect your music? dont you think that computers and some samplers actually provide this kind of power? couldnt you say that theres a certain point at which sample time becomes academic? after 1 minute, after 4? 10 minutes is almost 4 times as long as the average pop song, and still a little longer than some less pop oriented formats. also, i think its important to consider what exactly is meant by "to loop". a loop wouldnt be a loop if it didnt return to the beginning. a ten minute loop would be a very, very long loop indeed. listeners may only be able to identify the sound as a loop if they recognized its return to some point. maybe a ten minute loop would be composed of 100,000 tiny little loops. maybe itd be one, gigantic ten minute thing. maybe ten or fifteen of the things running in parallel, all with random access controls, would signify the new beginning of the remix. like a digital version of chopping up a reel of tape and randomly splicing it all back together. maybe it would usher in the begining of a more algorithmic form of music. if random access could be decided according to some set of rules. it kind of reminds me of playing along with a multitrack tape. if you were to play a ten minute loop into the thing (itd take ten minutes to do, of course) and then play it back, itd probably be very much like playing along with a tape recording, rather than a captured moment. in the end, though, i still think itd end up being academic. i also think that looping may be redefined. joe From ???@??? Sat Aug 29 00:07:35 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA21264; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 14:21:52 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 14:21:52 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD05DF84D@migarexch01.maritz.com> From: "Liebig, Steuart A." To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: muddying the sampling waters/copyright Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 13:08:00 -0500 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Resent-Message-ID: <"StqMh1.0.qv3.y8lvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1439 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com This isn't strictly about the sampling issue, but it may be an interesting side-light: Anyone remember the Richard Roundtree/Shaft rip-off ad as Schlitz Malt Liquor? It seems that the producers of the ad hired the guy, J.J. Johnson, who did the original orchestrations for the Shaft theme music (and other music for the film) that Isaac Hayes did. Isaac Hayes sued the producers, J.J., and Schlitz and their ad agency for some sort of copyright infringement because the music sounded TOO similar to the original. A lot of the similarity was, of course, due to the wah-wah guitar part that, although different, lent much of the flavor to the ad's music. The defense brought in a lot of music experts on the wah-wah and its sound, etc. The jury came back and found in favor of Isaac Hayes. Now when I heard the music for the ad on TV, I said, "Oh someone's copped the Shaft theme, pretty funny." Apparently, you CAN sue for that. Same defense attorney had a case where Tom Waits sued Doritos (I think it was) because they used a "sound alike" for one of their ads. I guess the defense said that the agency had wanted the sound of someone who Waits had modeled some of HIS sound on . . . can't remember how that went, but I'm not sure that Waits didn't win. Did anyone see that Jagger/Richards seem to have gotten ALL of the publishing for the Verve's "Sweet Symphony" (real title escapes me right now) bacause of the sample that was looped/used? This blew my mind, then I was explaining the deal that was made to someone who wasn't a musician and why it outrages me. His response: "Oh that's the whole song, of course Jagger/Richards should get it all"! From ???@??? Sat Aug 29 00:07:33 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA21504; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 14:22:27 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 14:22:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: KRosser414@aol.com Message-ID: > Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 14:13:16 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Sampling debate Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Resent-Message-ID: <"oqBN-1.0.3Q4.iDlvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1440 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >> It seems to me that if you are >> a scavenger sifting through recorded history looking for things that will have >> resonance you would be somewhat aware that there is a debt to be paid to >>those >> who originated the work since you are dependent upon them. >(Hi Ken, how've you been?) (I've got one daughter pulling the heads off Barbie dolls and the other one re-enacting scenes from The Wizard Of Oz in the nude, meanwhile I've been paying the bills this week playing in the pit band for a run of student performances of "Grease" - other than that, life is OK:-) Yourself?) >This raises another perspective on how the issues of influence and debt >gets looked at from a very different point of view when it involves >direct sampling, as opposed to personal influence. Absolutely. I don't see this as a black and white issue, there are lots of areas of grey and the law, as Kim detailed, seems to be leaning on the side of the samplers. While I want to stop short of making an absolute ethical judgement, I think the issue becomes one that artists need to ask themselves - what are my debts? What are my responsibilities to those debts? Am I trying to rise to the creative challenge posed by my influences or am I taking the easy way out and letting them do the work for me? In the case of 'influence', the line is so nebulous that I think there is a lot of leeway. Sampling a specific recorded work is a bit more of a tangible thing. I'd say it differs greatly from influence, in both intent and practice. >Here's an example: Let's say I start messing around with someone else's >riff or tune on guitar. >Now, am I obligated to seek >out the composer of the work I started playing and ask their permission >to release the end result that I came up with, even if it's >unrecognizable from the original source of inspiration? Permission? No, I think that's fair game. >What if I'm playing along with a recording and then start coming up with >my own thing, ... >Would I be obligated to get permission from the person who wrote the >music that inspired me to come up with my own part, even if it bears no >audible or tangible evidence of having been derived from their work? No, I think that's fair game again. >To go even further out, would Ornette Coleman be obligated to pay >royalties to the man who painted the picture which inspired him to write >the tune "Lonely Woman"? No. IMHO there's a big difference between influence and plagiarism, although there may be a bit of a grey area where they overlap. The examples you give here, to me, clearly plant themselves in the 'influence' category. > We're all "scavengers of music history" in >a way. But when it's done in as direct and obvious of a manner as >sampling, it gets looked at from a very different perspective. Exactly, it was that perspective and not the other I was trying to address. >> But if you >> need to sample a Robert Plant screech from a Zeppelin song, then heavily >> process it, run it backwards, etc. until it's unrecognizable (thereby putting >> you in the clear from owing them anything), to me it begs the question: why >> not just screech into a mic for your damn self then? >The reason for this, as in the reason (or at least one possible reason) >behind mangling a Robert Plant sample, is that this is part of the craft >of what they do, and transforming a familiar sound into a wholly >unfamiliar one is an element of their art, in much the same way that a >jazz musician might struggle to put their own personal imprint on a >standard, If that's the case, fine. Jazz musicians credit the standards they play. If they write a new melody to the changes they get to call it their tune. If they mangle a Plant sample beyond recognition, I can see how that's somewhat innocuous in and of itself in the grand scheme of things, even if I don't quite understand the motivation myself. They'll get away with it if no one recognizes it. If someone does, and Plant has a legally and/or ethically sound basis for asking for compensation, as I see it you have two honorable choices: Pay up or stop using the sample. That's all I'm saying. Whining that you're being repressed creatively is pointless and immature. I've often observed the most potent creativity begins as soon as you hit an obstacle or limitation. Congratulations, corporate America has just dealt you an obstacle! Create, man, create! >In this light, to hold up Fripp as some bastion of originality and >debt-free creativity, Which I would never do. Nor would Fripp, I suspect. >I still think it's interesting that many people (myself included) are >often more ready to criticize a samplist for tweaking a source recording >beyond recognition than they would be to knock a guitarist for copping >an obvious riff. This parallel has been drawn on this list before. I personally don't draw a huge distinction between the two are far as creative laziness goes. >> You may find a way to use it legally against the creator's wishes. How >> someone could do that and keep a clear conscience is a bit beyond me. >Once again, I think it's worthwhile to draw some analogies to the >non-sampling world. If I write a piece of music inspired by a >particular artist, and then somewhere down the road I find out that the >artist in question hates the piece (even if it contains no obvious >references or quotes of their work), should I feel an obligation to >banish or destroy the piece? Actually, moments after I posted this I thought of an even better example to use in argument against myself. Miles Davis and Gil Evans' arrangement of the adagio from Rodrigo's Concierto De Aranjuez that appeared on Sketches of Spain, which Rodrigo reportedly hated. I can see why - it's great Miles but a very poor representation of the Rodrigo piece as he intended it. And I enjoy it as a listener, guilt-free. I'll concede my reasoning here had a lot of holes... > If I study with a teacher and absorb some >of his techniques and ideas, and then use those ideas in outlets that he >doesn't care for or find musically rewarding, do I need to stop doing >what I'm doing, even if it seems like the natural and logical thing for >me to do? No, if you can do something of your own with it, it's yours. The bottom line of the argument I was trying to make is this: legal arguments aside, this issue of borrowing, whether by influence or direct sampling, should raise questions, not necessarily that we should use to judge others, but that we should be ready to ask ourselves. And first and foremost of these questions is one that I posed at the beginning of this post: Am I trying to rise to the creative challenge posed by my influences or am I taking the easy way out and letting them do the work for me? Ken R From ???@??? Sat Aug 29 00:07:37 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA23460; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 14:27:11 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 14:27:11 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 14:18:41 -0400 X-Sender: robm@mailgate.nytimes.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <018701bdd2a5$98616b40$c5b854ce@mark.asisoftware.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Robert Monn Subject: Re: Hypothetical Question Resent-Message-ID: <"Ah1412.0.sl4.kGlvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1441 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I actually have 10 minute loop time. I use my minidisc live and can record loops of any length. has anyone else done this? the minidisc will glitch-lessly loop pieces of any length up to 74 minutes. very cool. I want another one now. How does it affect my music? I still don't find myself going for five minute loops, really. your loop only needs to be 30 secs or so to be 'long,' if you know what i mean. repetition is not very apparent on 1+ long loops. Not to say that it useless. I think it's because I have 4 secs on my delay pedal, 55 secs on my SU10 and 8 secs on my jam man..... I don't tend to use the MD for loops way longer than the loops I get coming out of my other kit. Although -- just writing that makes me think of what it would sound like if I sampled a minute or two of my other loops going and then looped that back into the mix. so wonderfully confusing! I highly recomend checking out MiniDisc tech. I picked up my *very* small MZR50 (Sony) for $333 new... the sound quality is very good (much better than on the original units) and it allows you to loop between index points, set index points on the fly, etc. coupled with a pair of stealth binaurials (sp?) it makes a great boot taper/enviornmental sound recorder as well. I looped some great stereo traffic noise from it at my last show and it rocked. It's amazing the cadences that will eventually become noticable in 10-15 sec. loops like that. anyway. glad to be on this list -- best list I've found so far on the net -- lot's of content here! cheers. _________________________________ /robb monn -- robm@nytimes.com | From ???@??? Sat Aug 29 00:07:45 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA06503; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 15:07:38 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 15:07:38 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <35E6FE8C.6CC@mdbs.com> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 14:01:32 -0500 From: "Dennis W. Leas" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; U) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Hypothetical Question References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"e8Yvq.0.mo.Rtlvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1442 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Robert Monn wrote: > > I actually have 10 minute loop time. I use my minidisc live and can record > loops of any length. has anyone else done this? the minidisc will > glitch-lessly loop pieces of any length up to 74 minutes. very cool. I > want another one now. This is great to know! I've thought about using really long loops in a performance to do sort of a "musique concrete" thing, grabbing sounds from multiple wireless mics placed through-out the venue and building-up a loop. Hummmm... - Dennis Leas From ???@??? Sat Aug 29 00:07:52 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA13308; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 15:30:35 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 15:30:35 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD05DF850@migarexch01.maritz.com> From: "Liebig, Steuart A." To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: RE: Sampling debate Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 14:10:40 -0500 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Resent-Message-ID: <"um9SY1.0._u1.Z3mvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1443 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > Once again, I think it's worthwhile to draw some analogies to the > non-sampling world. If I write a piece of music inspired by a > particular artist, and then somewhere down the road I find out that the > artist in question hates the piece (even if it contains no obvious > references or quotes of their work), should I feel an obligation to > banish or destroy the piece? > The classical world has had lots of examples of "variations on a theme by . . . " I guess one could say that the difference is in how/what/why something was done. Compare and contrast Brahms and usage of thematic material versus sampling's usage of material. Might be an interesting exercise to find out how one feels about this stuff. For the record I like both Brahms and PE. If I have a bias, it would be on how much of something is used and the "originality" of the work that came out of it. Maybe's it's back to Duke Ellington: "There's only good music and bad music." Interesting thread From ???@??? Sat Aug 29 00:07:55 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA11834; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 15:26:07 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 15:26:07 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 15:12:06 -0400 From: Andreas Willers Subject: Re: Fwd: FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN Sender: Andreas Willers To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Message-ID: <199808281512_MC2-57B3-537E@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"eZjj31.0.v-1.h4mvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1444 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hi Thomas, the four measure limit does apply to compositions. The composer of the Muppetts Show theme got sued in vain because although he had clearly ripped of a song from a famous German movie from the 30's, he was clever enaugh to slightly altering the melodic rhythm in bar number four.... best, Andreas From ???@??? Sat Aug 29 00:07:48 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA12405; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 15:27:57 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 15:27:57 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 15:12:44 -0400 (EDT) From: David Talento X-Sender: legion@unix01 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Hypothetical Question In-Reply-To: <199808281800.OAA18203@bert.WPI.EDU> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Oci58.0.N02.y4mvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1445 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > > If your looper had 10 minutes of looping time, what would you do with it? > > How would it affect your music? > couldnt you say that theres a certain point at which sample > time becomes academic? after 1 minute, after 4? I have made songs/EPs that were meant to loop over and over again. I create a piece of music that has the beginning blending into the end and vice versa. One piece was exactly ten minutes and I recorded it to an endless loop cassette. I've also pressed up limited edition 8tracks with similar stuff. In this case the "loop" is 5-30 minutes. Sometimes in live shows I play these "loops" throught the mixer and play other instruments/sounds over top of them. Quite frankly I think Joesph makes a very valid point though. My first reaction was if there was a 10 minute looper I'd use two minutes and trim the rest. However when i started to think about it if you change the concept of "song" or put it in a performace mode I bet a number of people have already used 10+ minute loops. Personally I wouldn't really give a damn about a piece of hardware that would do this though. My portable 8track works just fine for me... ----------------------------------------------------------------------- HELP WANTED PRODUCTIONS - Http://www.voicenet.com/~legion "Bringing you the best in Organic Electronic music since we started..." Home of the Unusual Instrument and Recording Gallery with pictures and info of Tube recorders, Omnichords, weird guitars, Casios, and more. Visit it at: Http://www.voicenet.com/~legion/weird.htm From ???@??? Sat Aug 29 00:07:53 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA15087; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 15:35:51 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 15:35:51 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Nemoguitt@aol.com Message-ID: > Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 15:18:00 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: test Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"_makS.0.GQ2.eAmvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1446 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com test From ???@??? Sat Aug 29 00:07:54 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA19546; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 15:47:42 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 15:47:42 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: bflick@voicenet.com Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980828153056.00793ae0@popmail.voicenet.com> X-Sender: bflick@popmail.voicenet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 15:30:56 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: muddying the sampling waters/copyright In-Reply-To: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD05DF84D@migarexch01.maritz. com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"A3QFE3.0.hV3.COmvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1447 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com - What Stones tune did the Verve loop? I never picked up on it.. - Brendan 01:08 PM 8/28/98 -0500, you wrote: >This isn't strictly about the sampling issue, but it may be an interesting >side-light: > >Anyone remember the Richard Roundtree/Shaft rip-off ad as Schlitz Malt >Liquor? It seems that the producers of the ad hired the guy, J.J. Johnson, >who did the original orchestrations for the Shaft theme music (and other >music for the film) that Isaac Hayes did. Isaac Hayes sued the producers, >J.J., and Schlitz and their ad agency for some sort of copyright >infringement because the music sounded TOO similar to the original. A lot of >the similarity was, of course, due to the wah-wah guitar part that, although >different, lent much of the flavor to the ad's music. The defense brought in >a lot of music experts on the wah-wah and its sound, etc. The jury came back >and found in favor of Isaac Hayes. > >Now when I heard the music for the ad on TV, I said, "Oh someone's copped >the Shaft theme, pretty funny." Apparently, you CAN sue for that. > >Same defense attorney had a case where Tom Waits sued Doritos (I think it >was) because they used a "sound alike" for one of their ads. I guess the >defense said that the agency had wanted the sound of someone who Waits had >modeled some of HIS sound on . . . can't remember how that went, but I'm not >sure that Waits didn't win. > > > >Did anyone see that Jagger/Richards seem to have gotten ALL of the >publishing for the Verve's "Sweet Symphony" (real title escapes me right >now) bacause of the sample that was looped/used? This blew my mind, then I >was explaining the deal that was made to someone who wasn't a musician and >why it outrages me. His response: "Oh that's the whole song, of course >Jagger/Richards should get it all"! > > > From ???@??? Sat Aug 29 00:08:04 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA06462; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 16:37:25 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 16:37:25 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD05DF855@migarexch01.maritz.com> From: "Liebig, Steuart A." To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: muddying the sampling waters/copyright Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 15:27:57 -0500 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Resent-Message-ID: <"YdONk2.0.Jg.4Cnvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1448 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > - What Stones tune did the Verve loop? I never picked up on it.. > - Brendan > > Actually, it wasn't a "real" Stones tune, but part of a track from one of those symphonic Stones type of records. Andrew Loog Oldham (is this the right guy?) apparently did "symphonic" versions of their tunes and one of these (this could be the last time?) is what the Verve used. What I read had the Verve's manager going in to Allen Klein (remember him?), and playing him the track and asking for the Stones' legal blessing. Klein said, sure the publishing is 50/50. Verve manager walks out happy, presents deal to band. Then they find out that Klein meant 50 for Jagger/50 for Richards, like every other Stones tune . . . and the Stones people are also the ones who gave the tune to Nike, since they had the publishing, they had the rights. Allegedly the Verve didn't want this to happen, but legally could not stop it. On the back end it did help them make huge $ tho' . . . I dunno, do Mick an Keef really need all that much more $? (I know, I'm a commie. please don't flame me on this.) From ???@??? Sat Aug 29 00:08:18 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id SAA32606; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 18:51:27 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 18:51:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980828184340.007a0100@popmail.voicenet.com> X-Sender: ngc1275@popmail.voicenet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 18:43:40 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Theatre of the Mind Subject: Re: Hypothetical Question In-Reply-To: References: <199808281800.OAA18203@bert.WPI.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"4onhK1.0.HE7.xApvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1449 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 03:12 PM 8/28/98 -0400, you wrote: > > > >> > If your looper had 10 minutes of looping time, what would you do with it? >> > How would it affect your music? > >> couldnt you say that theres a certain point at which sample >> time becomes academic? after 1 minute, after 4? > >I have made songs/EPs that were meant to loop over and over again. I >create a piece of music that has the beginning blending into the end and >vice versa. One piece was exactly ten minutes and I recorded it to an >endless loop cassette. I've also pressed up limited edition 8tracks with >similar stuff. > >In this case the "loop" is 5-30 minutes. Sometimes in live shows I play >these "loops" throught the mixer and play other instruments/sounds over >top of them. > >Quite frankly I think Joesph makes a very valid point though. My first >reaction was if there was a 10 minute looper I'd use two minutes and trim >the rest. However when i started to think about it if you change the >concept of "song" or put it in a performace mode I bet a number of people >have already used 10+ minute loops. > >Personally I wouldn't really give a damn about a piece of hardware that >would do this though. My portable 8track works just fine for me... > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > HELP WANTED PRODUCTIONS - Http://www.voicenet.com/~legion >"Bringing you the best in Organic Electronic music since we started..." > >Home of the Unusual Instrument and Recording Gallery with pictures and >info of Tube recorders, Omnichords, weird guitars, Casios, and more. > Visit it at: Http://www.voicenet.com/~legion/weird.htm > > > > > Hey David, I used to do the same thing, only with a four channel tascam. I used 3 minute continues loop casette tapes. I also used a vintage tape echoplex. The echoplex tapes where usually about 3 minutes also. Three minutes are plenty for looping especially if you're over dubbing. I still have a few echoplex's that I use once in a while by the way. One has four line inputs. Mark of b. aka Theatre of the Mind From ???@??? Sat Aug 29 00:08:36 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id VAA27842; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 21:17:59 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 21:17:59 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: YummyBoy25@aol.com Message-ID: <470c43bf.35e755be@aol.com>> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 21:13:34 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Burning Man Loop Camp Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"IKZBO.0.UQ6.RNrvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1450 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com The burning man has NOTHING to do with Burried Garcia. Check this out. http:\\www.burningman.com From ???@??? Sat Aug 29 00:08:43 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id WAA16990; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 22:11:40 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 22:11:40 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <01BDD2B6.73AF6FC0.crlwind@grin.net> From: James Potter Reply-To: "crlwind@grin.net" To: "'PJBMHB@aol.com'" , "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: RE: DOD 8 Second Delay Pedal Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 19:02:40 -0700 Organization: Crawling Wind Records X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Gk8zW2.0.QM3.x5svr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1451 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I have had one for quite a few years. The sound quality is about what you'd expect, but you can change the speed of the loop, and I like that! I usually have to really EQ the output, as there is not much high end. It has a trigger mode, where you can retain a sample and use a voltage to triggr it. I've had a lot of fun with this box, but don't expect sound quality of a Jamman or EDP. James H. Potter III ____________________________________ CD Out now : 13 Drones Crawling Wind Records audio/text (pictures to follow): http://www.grin.net/~crlwind -----Original Message----- From: PJBMHB@aol.com [SMTP:PJBMHB@aol.com] Sent: Friday, August 28, 1998 3:54 AM To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re:DOD 8 Second Delay Pedal has anyone ever tried one of these yet? are they in stores? anyone own one? how are they? thanks for the info., =-) PJ From ???@??? Sat Aug 29 00:08:55 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id XAA13032; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 23:21:24 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 23:21:24 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 22:17:35 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199808290317.WAA24456@mw1.texas.net> X-Sender: sharkey@mail.texas.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: james rhodes Subject: Jamman acting too crazy.. Resent-Message-ID: <"cTdCL3.0.Iq2.TBtvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1452 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com i have a local friend that just bought a used Jamman. and its screwy...i did a DRAM test,,,and thats ok. it seems to behave ok (most of the time) when triggered from the front. but when you plug in the foot pedal, it goes bonkers, and the front light goes out, and stays out. the problem isnt the footpedal or cord. i gave my friend Greg Hogans #,,but he got a message saying that he is out of the office till wed. my friend doesnt know whether to send it back, or try to get it fixed....does this sound like,,a cheap problem, or an expensive one,,,,anyone???,,,,,sorry i could'nt get even more vague..just thought someone might have seen this type of problem before thanks, james From ???@??? Mon Aug 31 10:34:54 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id EAA11742; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 04:32:51 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 04:32:51 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 00:01:33 -0400 Subject: completely off topic-sting Message-ID: <19980831.043429.6894.0.gsg@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-11 From: gsg@juno.com (Geoff S Gersh) Resent-Message-ID: <"IWXGx2.0.Xs1.Fpbwr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1490 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >.hey sting really sucks now anyway..just wanted to throw that in...;-) >-Rich if ya hate sting look for the 'zine Temple of Sting proBee antiSting available at Tower Recs sorry, but, people who dislike sting might get a kick out of it :) g gersh _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From ???@??? Sat Aug 29 20:39:53 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id HAA04964; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 07:47:10 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 07:47:10 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 06:10:45 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: Re: Hypothetical Question Resent-Message-ID: <"lDkPb2.0.My.Cc-vr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1456 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com The great advantage to a ten minute loop time for me would be to have long multiple loops. Having worked within the jam man 32 seconds limitations for years, I'm still amazed when I'm interested in using the multiple loop aspect howshort 32 seconds really is. In FingerPaint we have used the pre recorded "background" tape earlier on in our performances and never reallly got comfortable with this. Patrick Now Available: FingerPaint Primary Colors: BLUE A guitar-synth looping duo of dark illbience and dreamy ambience. Shockwave audio featuring our newest release Primary Colors:Blue www.fingerpaint.net From ???@??? Sat Aug 29 00:09:04 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id BAA20199; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 01:05:40 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 01:05:40 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Crossedout@aol.com Message-ID: > Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 01:00:52 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: collage (was:FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"-boeH3.0.pW4.miuvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1453 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 8/28/98 3:41:32 AM Central Daylight Time, hovard@online.no writes: << But couldn`t Van Halen deny them the right to cover his song? >> I'm not sure, but I think if you pay the royalty assigned to cover versions, you can record and release whatever you want. From ???@??? Sat Aug 29 00:09:07 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id BAA21863; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 01:07:56 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 01:07:56 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Crossedout@aol.com Message-ID: > Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 01:01:45 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Sampling debate Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"7qWeM3.0.Af4.mjuvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1454 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 8/28/98 3:53:23 AM Central Daylight Time, hovard@online.no writes: << Did you call the Edge up and ask him? If so, his reply was pretty cool!!! If I was you I`d ask him to come over and plug into your Soundblaster and bang away!! >> Nah, I'm really not that into U2... it was just the first band I could think of. From ???@??? Sat Aug 29 20:39:56 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id JAA04579; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 09:16:46 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 09:16:46 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: "Douglas Lawrence" To: Subject: ASR-X Pro vs. MPC2000 Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 09:12:03 -0400 Message-ID: <000001bdd34e$9e1b48e0$87500218@cc1006472-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"vhoWC2.0.Gk.ou_vr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1457 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Well, I was just about to buy an Akai MPC2000 (v1.7 OS has seemed to fix most of the stability issues), then Ensoniq announced the ASR-X Pro (the red box). It seems like they've addressed almost everybody's major complaints except the small screen issue and real-time sample stretch. Can anyone point out any compelling reason to go with one over the other. To me, it seems like the ASR-X Pro is a winner ... (has anybody heard anything about Yamaha's up-and-coming competitor to these units, I think it's called the RU700?? It's due to be released this Fall.) Feature MPC2000 ASR-X Pro ===================================================== Flash OS yes yes(finally) Polyphony 32 32 # channels Rx 1 32 16 # channels Tx 32 16 Sequencer Tracks 64 16 MIDI outs 2 1 Max audio outs 2 2 RAM 2mb (32 max) 2mb (66 max) Total sample time ??? 13 minutes @ 44.1 kHz mono 6.5 minutes @ 44.1 kHz stereo ROM sounds no yes (even more with EXP expansion board) Storage floppy, SCSI floppy, SCSI (built-in now) SMPTE yes no # Pads 16 13 (plus 10 quick edit pads) Graphic editing yes no Step edit yes no read PC (fat) disks yes yes Effects Algoritms ?? with add-in 40 Effects Busses 4 busses 2 busses Resonant filter 12db/Oct LP Multimode (LP, BP Resonant) Track muting yes no Sequencer memory 100,000 notes 140,000 notes (w/ 8Mb RAM) Save File Formats .WAV & .AIFF .AIFF CC modulation yes(effects only) yes(4 per patch) Time Stretch yes yes Tempo Resolution ??? 1/100 BPM Clock Resolution 96/ppq 384/ppq Tap Tempo yes yes Note Repeat yes(easy) (???) I think so with some playing around Velocity sensitive pads no yes Hmmmm, I wonder how these units compare to a Yamaha A3000 or an Emu ESI-4000 ... if I could find a great pad based MIDI controller, that may be a better way to go. Later- Doug. From ???@??? Sat Aug 29 20:40:00 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id JAA11863; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 09:39:16 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 09:39:16 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <004a01bdd351$c257fd40$02469ad1@default> From: "Bill Cummings" To: Subject: Re: ASR-X Pro vs. MPC2000 Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 09:34:30 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2110.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"tMAH23.0.Xb2.wD0wr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1458 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com The ASR-X Pro is a winner ! I own the original ASR-X and IMHO it's a winner too. Retail stores are blowing these babies out now that the pro's about to be released. Mine is beefed up with the EXP-3 dance expansion board and the 8 output expander (which now gives me a total of 10 separate outs), plus I maxed the ram out to 34 mb. The pro can hold 66 MB of ram though, but I've never run out with 34. No matter which one you end up getting, you'll definitely want to get a removable SCSI drive (i use a Jaz), as saving large files to floppy is not practical. I also use mine mostly hooked up to my PC with Cubase, and I think this greatly expands the possibilities. Bill Cummings drums@myself.com -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Lawrence To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Saturday, August 29, 1998 9:19 AM Subject: ASR-X Pro vs. MPC2000 >Well, I was just about to buy an Akai MPC2000 (v1.7 OS has seemed to fix >most of the stability issues), then Ensoniq announced the ASR-X Pro (the red >box). It seems like they've addressed almost everybody's major complaints >except the small screen issue and real-time sample stretch. Can anyone point >out any compelling reason to go with one over the other. To me, it seems >like the ASR-X Pro is a winner ... (has anybody heard anything about >Yamaha's up-and-coming competitor to these units, I think it's called the >RU700?? It's due to be released this Fall.) > >Feature MPC2000 ASR-X Pro >===================================================== >Flash OS yes yes(finally) >Polyphony 32 32 ># channels Rx 1 32 16 ># channels Tx 32 16 >Sequencer Tracks 64 16 >MIDI outs 2 1 >Max audio outs 2 2 >RAM 2mb (32 max) 2mb (66 max) >Total sample time ??? 13 minutes @ 44.1 kHz mono > 6.5 minutes @ 44.1 kHz stereo >ROM sounds no yes (even more with EXP expansion board) >Storage floppy, SCSI floppy, SCSI (built-in now) >SMPTE yes no ># Pads 16 13 (plus 10 quick edit pads) >Graphic editing yes no >Step edit yes no >read PC (fat) disks yes yes >Effects Algoritms ?? with add-in 40 >Effects Busses 4 busses 2 busses >Resonant filter 12db/Oct LP Multimode (LP, BP Resonant) >Track muting yes no >Sequencer memory 100,000 notes 140,000 notes (w/ 8Mb RAM) >Save File Formats .WAV & .AIFF .AIFF >CC modulation yes(effects only) yes(4 per patch) >Time Stretch yes yes >Tempo Resolution ??? 1/100 BPM >Clock Resolution 96/ppq 384/ppq >Tap Tempo yes yes >Note Repeat yes(easy) (???) I think so with some playing around >Velocity sensitive pads no yes > >Hmmmm, I wonder how these units compare to a Yamaha A3000 or an Emu ESI-4000 >... if I could find a great pad based MIDI controller, that may be a better >way to go. > >Later- >Doug. From ???@??? Sat Aug 29 20:39:46 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id GAA03213; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 06:15:28 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 06:15:28 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980829120052.300f519c@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> X-Sender: pycraft@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 12:00:52 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Michael Pycraft Hughes Subject: Re: Hypothetical Question In-Reply-To: <018701bdd2a5$98616b40$c5b854ce@mark.asisoftware.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"jC0yM1.0.HQ.5Fzvr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1455 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >If your looper had 10 minutes of looping time, what would you do with it? >How would it affect your music? It wouldn't. In fact, I rarely use the JamMan's 32 sec. Sometimes I think I'd like a full minute, but only to do specific things like loop 16-bar tunes; Miles Davis' "So What?" nneds to be played rather above usual tempo to fit! But other than things like that, 20 sec would do me. Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes, University of Glasgow, Glasgow UK G12 8QQ -------------------------------------------------------------------- "What can be done with fewer assumptions is done in vain with more" - William of Occam (1285-1347) (now called Occam's Razor) -------------------------------------------------------------------- www.elec.gla.ac.uk/~pycraft pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk From ???@??? Sat Aug 29 20:40:34 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA02799; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 15:39:20 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 15:39:20 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199808291930.PAA04335@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: Soundalikes/crack down etc Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 15:25:25 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"mYoc71.0.PT.DR5wr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1459 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >- Eddie Van Halen, when being shit on about "Right Now" being used in a beer >commercial or some such enterprise, responded that if he didn't liscense the >song, the beer company would just hire session musicians to record a sound- >alike version, pay the (pittance) royalty associated with covering the song, >and VH would get nothing, compared to what they got for the use of the song. Yep , "soundalikes" is a familiar term in the session world. Happens every day , I believe. But couldn`t Van Halen deny them the right to cover his song? Andrew Loyd webber does it all the time. But , with all due respect - i think you missed the point here - a SOUNDALIKE is beyond the reach (pretty much) of the artist... it took Leon Redbone a couple years to win such a case - and for him they were also using a LOOKALIKE in the ads... ..so.. I heard a commercial with a santana -sounding song (not that hard to do, tho' i love Carlos & his music dearly) For that, i doubt he got a cent nor could he do much.... andre' From ???@??? Sat Aug 29 20:40:35 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA03464; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 15:45:17 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 15:45:17 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199808291936.PAA05489@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: Re: This Sampling debate Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 15:31:35 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2TGvb1.0.vb.zW5wr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1460 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > > Just wanted to change the tone a little on this debate. > > Why, with such a diversity of license free sample distributors, should > anyone want to take the risk of using copyrighted material?> > The quality of many of these samples, and the inspiration they provide are > just as good as (if not better) many commercial tunes. i'm with you, steve.. seems like a mountain of bandwidth on an easily avoidable issue. - Tho' i've enjoyed learning all the diverse opinions out there. it ain't an easy issue. Let the courts decide on the real fringe stuff...but, seems to me , the clear cut examples can be avoid by...creativity..and using - yes - the GAZILLIONS of available samples.. And let's all go give Gabriel's "Security" or Zappa's "Jazz from Hell" another spin - both are colossally sample dependent - yet they each sampled all the sounds ... these albums will endure centuries longer than any Beck , Puffed-Up Daddy, MC Hammered, or anyone else's recycled music. andre From ???@??? Sat Aug 29 20:40:36 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA03764; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 15:47:27 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 15:47:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199808291939.PAA06133@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: Re: Re:DOD 8 Second Delay Pedal Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 15:34:52 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"oEzP-3.0.ki.2a5wr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1461 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > > has anyone ever tried one of these yet? are they in stores? anyone own one? > how are they? thanks for the info., =-) PJ me - i love it. i'm not Khz-picky..sounds great!!! by the time the shit hits the amp - i mean c'mon. ez to use, small...even battery op!! looping on the quick n cheap. i love it for those 45min band gigs where there's NO TIME to set up the rack, etc grab one. you won't be sorry andre' From ???@??? Sat Aug 29 20:40:40 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA15122; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 17:48:15 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 17:48:15 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980829152320.007cac70@wavefront.com> X-Sender: chuck.zwicky@wavefront.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 15:23:20 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chuck Zwicky Subject: RE: DOD 8 Second Delay Pedal Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"cIbjF1.0.uT3.1K7wr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1462 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I think that the original poster was referring to the DOD DFX98, which is an 8-second stompbox with 18 bit converters. They seem to be vaporware so far. -Chuck Zwicky At 07:02 PM 8/28/98 -0700, you wrote: >I have had one for quite a few years. The sound quality is about what you'd expect, >but you can change the speed of the loop, and I like that! I usually have to really >EQ the output, as there is not much high end. It has a trigger mode, where you can retain a >sample and use a voltage to triggr it. I've had a lot of fun with this box, but don't expect >sound quality of a Jamman or EDP. > >James H. Potter III >____________________________________ >CD Out now : 13 Drones > Crawling Wind Records > audio/text (pictures to follow): > http://www.grin.net/~crlwind > > >-----Original Message----- >From: PJBMHB@aol.com [SMTP:PJBMHB@aol.com] >Sent: Friday, August 28, 1998 3:54 AM >To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >Subject: Re:DOD 8 Second Delay Pedal > >has anyone ever tried one of these yet? are they in stores? anyone own one? >how are they? thanks for the info., =-) PJ > > > > From ???@??? Tue Sep 01 21:18:33 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id SAA28034; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 18:44:28 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 18:44:28 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: DainL@AustinTX.net (Dain R. Luscombe) To: Subject: my jamman is acting broken Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 17:16:27 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19980901222040745.AAA121@sex.austintx.net> Resent-Message-ID: <"hpkA01.0.uc3.P77xr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1512 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Me and my roommate were trying to reset the midi channel on one of the jammen without the aid of the manual (aka pushing random buttons and powering up) and now when syncing it to midi the loops shut off after a while and the delay mode just flicks between 0 for loop and 1 for delay. Could a midi problem have this drastic an effect on it (ODing on note info?) or did we fry something? thanks in advance Dain PS I just got on this list yesterday so I'm a newbi From ???@??? Sat Aug 29 20:40:43 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id SAA20805; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 18:54:36 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 18:54:36 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: RE: This Sampling debate Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 15:39:13 -0700 Message-ID: <000d01bdd39d$d9921e40$c923dacf@stepheng> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199808291936.PAA05489@shell.monmouth.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"n2Rtn2.0.gm4.vC8wr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1463 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Is it just me, or do not all my posts go to the newsletter anymore? Hmm, perhaps it's Outlook98.... But I dunno. This particular list has shown its quirks... This one I decided to paste the email address in, as the default one, for Andre, came up. andre [mailto:andre@monmouth.com] put forth: > And let's all go give Gabriel's "Security" or Zappa's "Jazz from Hell" > another spin - both are colossally sample dependent - yet > they each sampled all the sounds ... Strange you'd say that. Both those albums' only shared characteristic involves the Synclavier, whose creators regarded FZ as their Most Feared Support Call, because when he got in touch something ultra-complex was afoot. Frank was known in his time as a premier programmer of the Synclavier, and was quoted in Keyboard magazine (the issue which, I remember, had a completely different version of Jazz From Hell for the monthly insert disk) regarding sampling as opposed to working from Factory Default Settings. I'll have to find this, because, from what I understood, FZ didn't really begin experimenting with sampling until after "Jazz From Hell" had already been recorded, and the sounds in "Jazz" were for the most part programmed. There were certainly some interesting bits that he shared with us in the treatment given on A&E's Biography show, where he manipulates a lot of specifically rude body sounds with the keyboard, giving them names like "Gastric Surprise"; just another one of the things I wish he had been around long enough to truly utilize. Stephen Goodman - It's... The Loop Of The Week (E.G. Marshall)! EarthLight Studios - http://www.earthlight.net/Studios PS - from the Leno show this week, an ad that proclaimed, "So beautiful you might mistake it for Art!"... thought it a bit apropo, eh? Though one might pronounce it "Beaut-ee-ful" at the time... From ???@??? Sat Aug 29 20:40:46 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id SAA21425; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 18:59:46 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 18:59:46 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19980829224449.0066e928@tiac.net> X-Sender: rphunt@tiac.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 18:44:49 -0400 To: JBKBOUNCE@aol.com From: Reginald Hunt Subject: New Stick Real Audio Cc: WNGV45A@prodigy.com, etnier@studiodual.com, VinnyG927@aol.com, DanKirkd@aol.com, jdepfam@bendnet.com, jweinberger@hotmail.com, kflint@beaver.slip.net, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, mlove@olywa.net, marathon@diamond.sunset.net, MATTW@smginc.com, malspal@tka.com, rjkoziol@nji.com, rhunt@lr.net, stick@crane.prod.itd.earthlink.net, toby@cs.man.ac.uk, Todd.Madson@LaserMaster.Com, wb2a+@andrew.cmu.edu Resent-Message-ID: <"w9njP1.0.by4.OL8wr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1465 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Please check out my site at http://www.tiac.net/users/rphunt for a new Stick loop track called "Majestick" in streaming RealAudio. Reg From ???@??? Sat Aug 29 20:40:44 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id SAA21346; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 18:58:48 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 18:58:48 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Crossedout@aol.com Message-ID: <939443c1.35e88475@aol.com>> Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 18:45:09 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: ASR-X Pro vs. MPC2000 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"dCXG02.0.3u4.bI8wr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1464 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com The only thing I could say (well, the two things...) 1) The MPC maxes out at 10 audio outs, not two - it has a left and right out built in, and you can add another board that gives you eight more outs, assignable. 2) I came into the sampler / sequencer market from a guitarist's background, not from a midi/keys background, and I found the MPC to be the most intuitive, easiest to use, get-it-out-of-the-box-and-get-moving devices that I tried (compared to the ASR, and compared to the Roland DJ-70 I made the mistake of purchasing...). If you are conversant in the ins and outs of samplers and midi, and you need to utilize all the advantages that the ASR has over the MPC (which don't seem like super much to me, but I still haven't maxed out my usage of the MPC), then maybe the ASR is the better choice, but if you want something that's very easy to use and understand, I'd pick (and have picked) the MPC. - Bill Crossedout@aol.com From ???@??? Sat Aug 29 20:40:53 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id UAA30542; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 20:42:39 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 20:42:39 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Nemoguitt@aol.com Message-ID: > Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 20:38:56 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: WaveCraft v1.0 free download Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"idUKD.0.oO7.Lz9wr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1466 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com hello...thought this might be of interest........michael WaveCraft v1.0 WaveCraft is a sample generating emulation of a modular synthesiser, with a wide selection of modules to choose from, including resonant low-pass and high-pass filters, glide, analogue sequencer and so on. It produces sample files in the standard WAV format as well as a raw format for other purposes. It is ideally suited for use with wavetable sound cards such as the AWE32, which can play WaveCraft's samples as musical tones with considerable polyphony and multitimbrality. WaveCraft was only previously available commercially; this official downloadable version is free, and lacks only the bulky library of pre-rendered sounds, although all the settings files required to recreate them are provided. Screen Shot System requirements: -386SX PC (Pentium or above recommended) -4Mb memory (more for Windows 95) -Mouse -Windows 3.1 or 95 -16-bit 44.1kHz capable sound card (wavetable with download memory recommended) Further information can be found at http://www.cuchulainn.demon.co.uk/wavecraft/ From ???@??? Sat Aug 29 20:40:58 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id VAA02066; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 21:31:05 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 21:31:05 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <002401bdd3b3$a97d2680$513c9ad1@default> From: "Bill Cummings" To: Subject: Re: ASR-X Pro vs. MPC2000 Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 21:15:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2110.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"X-EDM1.0.uA.yUAwr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1467 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com -----Original Message----- From: Crossedout@aol.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Saturday, August 29, 1998 7:00 PM Subject: Re: ASR-X Pro vs. MPC2000 > >The only thing I could say (well, the two things...) > >1) The MPC maxes out at 10 audio outs, not two - it has a left and right out >built in, and you can add another board that gives you eight more outs, >assignable. SO does the ASR-X, comes with 2 outs and you can add another 8 (I did) >2) I came into the sampler / sequencer market from a guitarist's background, >not from a midi/keys background, and I found the MPC to be the most intuitive, >easiest to use, get-it-out-of-the-box-and-get-moving devices that I tried >(compared to the ASR, and compared to the Roland DJ-70 I made the mistake of >purchasing...). I haven't spent any time on the MPC, but I think the X is really easy to use, and I'm a drummer ! >If you are conversant in the ins and outs of samplers and midi, and you need >to utilize all the advantages that the ASR has over the MPC (which don't seem >like super much to me, but I still haven't maxed out my usage of the MPC), >then maybe the ASR is the better choice, but if you want something that's very >easy to use and understand, I'd pick (and have picked) the MPC. Well, it does come with an Ensoniq MR synth right inside it, plus you can add an expansion board that gives you hundreds more sounds, I think this brings it up to like 1000 internal synth patches. And they sound incredible too. Also gives you resonant filters, and Global Reverbs with 8 models for Plates, Halls, Rooms, and Huge Places. Then there's the insert effects, a 24-bit ESP-2 effects processor chip that gives you an additional 40 algorithms with 4 variations each available. EQ, Reverb, Chorus, Flange, DDL, Distortion, Tunable Speaker, Chatter Box, Vocal Morph, and Auto wah presets . The ASR-X uses standard file formats for sequences (SMF) and samples (AIFF), plus it reads WAV files, and it's compatible with all existing ASR-10 & EPS libraries, plus it'll import Akai (S-1000/1100) and Roland sounds via SCSI. Then of course there's the RESAMPLING, which is one of the most awesome feature of the whole box. For more details on the ASRX, check it out on http://www.ensoniq.com/html/mainasrxpro.htm also check out: http://www.globaldrum.com/interface/asrx/ and http://www.ar.com.au/~novakill/synth.html Bill Cummings drums@myself.com From ???@??? Sat Aug 29 20:41:00 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id XAA12881; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 23:33:43 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 23:33:43 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: "Collins" To: , Subject: Re: This Sampling debate Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 23:25:51 -0400 Message-ID: <01bdd3c5$e33a2aa0$5d1cbfa8@0QHC6SIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"qAgrt1.0.uy2.9QCwr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1468 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Since we're speaking of Mister Frank Zappa, I'd like to ask if anyone has heard his Civilization Phase III ? That to me is his best work ever. State of the art musicians, sampling, mixing, and just about everything else. And it's pretty funny to listen to all the "in-betweener"parts of speech. Jeff Collins -----Original Message----- From: Stephen P. Goodman To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com <> Date: Saturday, August 29, 1998 6:54 PM Subject: RE: This Sampling debate >Is it just me, or do not all my posts go to the newsletter anymore? Hmm, >perhaps it's Outlook98.... But I dunno. This particular list has shown its >quirks... This one I decided to paste the email address in, as the default >one, for Andre, came up. > >andre [mailto:andre@monmouth.com] put forth: > >> And let's all go give Gabriel's "Security" or Zappa's "Jazz from Hell" >> another spin - both are colossally sample dependent - yet >> they each sampled all the sounds ... > >Strange you'd say that. Both those albums' only shared characteristic >involves the Synclavier, whose creators regarded FZ as their Most Feared >Support Call, because when he got in touch something ultra-complex was >afoot. Frank was known in his time as a premier programmer of the >Synclavier, and was quoted in Keyboard magazine (the issue which, I >remember, had a completely different version of Jazz From Hell for the >monthly insert disk) regarding sampling as opposed to working from Factory >Default Settings. I'll have to find this, because, from what I understood, >FZ didn't really begin experimenting with sampling until after "Jazz From >Hell" had already been recorded, and the sounds in "Jazz" were for the most >part programmed. > >There were certainly some interesting bits that he shared with us in the >treatment given on A&E's Biography show, where he manipulates a lot of >specifically rude body sounds with the keyboard, giving them names like >"Gastric Surprise"; just another one of the things I wish he had been around >long enough to truly utilize. > >Stephen Goodman - It's... The Loop Of The Week (E.G. Marshall)! >EarthLight Studios - http://www.earthlight.net/Studios > >PS - from the Leno show this week, an ad that proclaimed, "So beautiful you >might mistake it for Art!"... thought it a bit apropo, eh? Though one might >pronounce it "Beaut-ee-ful" at the time... > > From ???@??? Tue Sep 01 21:19:02 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id AAA12501; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 00:06:29 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 00:06:29 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: DainL@AustinTX.net (Dain R. Luscombe) To: Subject: Re: my jamman is acting broken Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 23:02:33 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19980902040646475.AAA238@sex.austintx.net> Resent-Message-ID: <"brsgc3.0.Zu2.sBCxr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1515 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > bsellon@lexicon.com > > good luck and welcome to the list > > joe > Thanks for the info joe dain From ???@??? Sat Aug 29 22:38:08 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id BAA24946; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 01:04:47 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 01:04:47 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 00:53:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Nick Ring X-Sender: nick@plato To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: PC MIDI Question.. In-Reply-To: > Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"92ckt3.0.5f5.5iDwr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1469 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I realize this is not the right forum, but perhaps some folks could help me out. I'm pretty ignorant in the ways of MIDI. I recently acquired an ensoniq esq-1 and would like to loud sound set on it. In order to do that, I'll need a midi card for my computer. Is there a super cheap one that I can just use for this transfer of data and sysex dumps and things of that nature? what does that run? new/used? Also, I see AWE32 cards kicked around in conversation. right now I'm using a 486 but am planning on upgrading at some point w/in the year. One of my main purposes is music creation, editing, and recording. PC or Mac? (I know, I know...an endless and useless debate, but...). If I buy a soundcard now should I expend the extra and get the "perfect" one that'll work both on that machine and when I upgrade, or a temp fix? A number of vague questions, and to a certain extent I'm thinking aloud, but if anyone's willing to throw me some thoughts, I'd appreciate it. thanks much, nick From ???@??? Sun Aug 30 17:19:43 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id CAA32535; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 02:44:02 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 02:44:02 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980830011449.007da110@wavefront.com> X-Sender: chuck.zwicky@wavefront.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 01:14:49 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chuck Zwicky Subject: Re: ASR-X Pro vs. MPC2000 In-Reply-To: <939443c1.35e88475@aol.com>> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"aLya7.0.vh6.r6Fwr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1470 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com This may seem to be a minor point, but my experience is that American companies are much more responsive to customer input than the Japanese companies. I have been very happy with ensoniq in particular. -Chuck Zwicky From ???@??? Sun Aug 30 17:19:50 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id DAA28499; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 03:56:02 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 03:56:02 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: RE: This Sampling debate Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 00:51:51 -0700 Message-ID: <000001bdd3eb$0dd9e140$e523dacf@stepheng> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 In-Reply-To: <01bdd3c5$e33a2aa0$5d1cbfa8@0QHC6SIA> Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"bpeZd3.0.Qf6.oIGwr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1471 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I should correct myself. There is a track at the end of "Jazz From Hell" called "Massaggio Galore" which clearly contains sampled voices. :) In addition, the free disk included in the Keyboard magazine was a Synclavierized version of "The Black Page". :) There was a lot of hubbub over whether Civilization Phaze III would ever see the light of day! I ended up getting "The Yellow Shark" at the time, and wasn't disappointed in that either! :) Stephen Goodman - It's... The Loop Of The Week (E.G. Marshall)! EarthLight Studios - http://www.earthlight.net/Studios From ???@??? Sun Aug 30 17:19:51 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id EAA08460; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 04:33:46 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 04:33:46 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <000e01bdd3f0$15682340$b1084382@hovard> From: "Thomas Whni" To: Subject: Re: ASR-X Pro vs. MPC2000 Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 10:27:52 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"F3y0k1.0.in1.qsGwr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1472 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Are there filters in the MPC 2000 ? If so , what are they like? Yours , Thomas From ???@??? Sun Aug 30 17:19:54 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id EAA16522; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 04:54:57 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 04:54:57 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <002e01bdd3f3$031d2fc0$b1084382@hovard> From: "Thomas Whni" To: Subject: Re: PC MIDI Question.. Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 10:48:50 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"DbmZE.0.Hk3.SAHwr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1473 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hey Nick , my only advice to you is that you read up on the subject of hard-disc recording before you buy anything. There are a lot of ways to get the wrong components and spend lots of money on somthing that won`t suit your needs. Here is the main "pitfall" that you need to be ware of: -machine not fast enough. This can seem easy to avoid , but keep in mind that there are MANY components that makes a difference , not just processorspeed. There is the harddrive , RAM , PCI-bus and so forth....... Here is the adress for the DAW (Dig. Audio Workstation) mailing list. They should be able and willing to help you more. The past-archive thing they have is great. Helped me a lot. http://www.missionrec.com/pcdaw.html The whole Mac vs. PC debate is way out of my league , but I believe that the music-industry regards MAC as the better alternative for music. But I have no idea , really. Hope this helps , Thomas Feel free to check out my web-site: http://www.geocities.com/Eureka/Promenade/1628/ From ???@??? Sun Aug 30 17:19:55 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id FAA08796 for kflint@annihilist.com; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 05:59:17 -0400 Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 05:59:17 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-From_: keithchegwin@hotmail.com Sun Aug 30 05:59:14 1998 Received: from hotmail.com (f34.hotmail.com [207.82.250.45]) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) with SMTP id FAA08769 for ; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 05:59:14 -0400 Received: (qmail 26953 invoked by uid 65534); 30 Aug 1998 09:58:37 -0000 Message-ID: <19980830095837.26952.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.175.239.62 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 02:58:37 PDT X-Originating-IP: [207.175.239.62] From: "chris lamb" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: pleaseremovemefromthislist Content-Type: text/plain Old-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 02:58:37 PDT X-Diagnostic: undecipherable, help sent X-Envelope-To: Loopers-Delight hi, could someone take me off this list or tell me how I could do it myself. thanks ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Sun Aug 30 17:19:58 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id JAA27393; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 09:42:04 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 09:42:04 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: "Douglas Lawrence" To: Subject: RE: ASR-X Pro vs. MPC2000 Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 09:39:16 -0400 Message-ID: <000001bdd41b$959976b0$87500218@cc1006472-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <000e01bdd3f0$15682340$b1084382@hovard> Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"ijbVn3.0.0Q6.BOLwr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1474 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Speaking from the specifications and not practical experience ... The Ensoniq ASR-X Pro natively has independent dual multi-mode dynamic digital filters (low-pass, high-pass, variable bandwidth band-pass, resonant low-pass, resonant band-pass) The Akai MPC2000 natively has a 12dB/Oct dynamic resonant lowpass filter. But you can buy and additional ProFilter DSP card which adds dynamic resonant multimode filter with lowpass, highpass, bandpass and semi-parametric EQ response modes. >From what I've heard, the filters on the Ensoniq seem more dramatic than the Akai. But if that's what you into, the Yamaha A3000 or Emu ESI-4000 have even more/better filter sections. For comparison ... The Yamaha A3000 has HPF, LPF with resonance, BPF, BEF). The Emu ESI-4000 has 6-pole filters (18 different types) The new AKAI S5000/S6000 samplers will have *all* these types of filters ... 4-Pole Lowpass - A lowpass filter with a 24dB/Octave rolloff and variable resonance. 4-Pole Bandpass - A bandpass filter with 12dB/Octave rolloff either side of the passband and variable resonance. 2-Pole Highpass - A highpass filter with 12dB/Octave rolloff and variable resonance. 2-Pole Lowpass - A lowpass filter with a 12dB/Octave rolloff and variable resonance. 2-Pole Bandpass - A bandpass filter with 6dB/Octave rolloff either side of the passband and variable resonance. 1-Pole Highpass - A highpass filter with a 6dB/Octave rolloff and variable resonance. Notch - A simple notch filter. Resonance affects the width and depth of the notch. Dual Notch 1 - A filter with two notches spaced an octave apart. The effect is similar to phasing. Resonance affects the width and depth of the notches. Dual Notch 2 - A filter with two notches spaced two octaves apart. Resonance sets the width and depth of the notches. Peak Filter - An EQ type filter with variable boost. Dual Peak 1 - A sweepable dual formant filter with two peaks spaced an octave apart. Dual Peak 2 - A sweepable dual formant filter with two peaks spaced two octaves apart. 'HaLo' Filter - A combination of highpass and lowpass filters which are lowpass at the lower end of the frequency spectrum and highpass at the upper end. 'PeakoLo' Filter - A 12dB/Octave lowpass filter but with exaggerated resonance. 'Voweliser' Filter Creates vocal effects. Later- Doug -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Whni [mailto:hovard@online.no] Sent: Sunday, August 30, 1998 4:28 AM To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: ASR-X Pro vs. MPC2000 Are there filters in the MPC 2000 ? If so , what are they like? Yours , Thomas From ???@??? Sun Aug 30 17:20:04 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA17249; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 13:18:36 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 13:18:36 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: GRAIGORY2@aol.com Message-ID: <83eb2511.35e9884d@aol.com>> Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 13:13:49 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: PC MIDI Question.. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"cpDTv3.0.Ml3.VXOwr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1475 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I think that if you stick with PCs, you need to get atleast a pentium (586) with atleast a 200mHz processor. A lot of soundcards are starting to demand atleast 133mHz in order to function properly. I have the SoundBlaster AWE 64... I am also looking to upgrade to a 400mHz computer with atleast 64MB of memory... remember, memory is VERY important... peace From ???@??? Sun Aug 30 17:20:08 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA32467; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 13:56:02 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 13:56:02 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <000601bdd43e$9ca8a200$ef084382@hovard> From: "Thomas Whni" To: Subject: Re: ASR-X Pro vs. MPC2000 Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 19:49:53 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"cqik81.0.Uc7.t5Pwr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1476 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com WOW! You shure know your filters......:-) Thanks a lot for the help! Thomas From ???@??? Sun Aug 30 17:20:09 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA01913; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 14:01:14 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 14:01:14 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <000b01bdd43f$53681480$ef084382@hovard> From: "Thomas Whni" To: Subject: Re: PC MIDI Question.. Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 19:55:07 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"-qEm51.0.19.gAPwr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1477 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I am also looking to upgrade to a 400mHz computer with atleast 64MB of >memory... remember, memory is VERY important... I read on the net that Win95 can "eat up" the first 28mb RAM. This could be quite crippling on a machine with 32mb RAM installed. It certainly was for me until I put in two xtra 32Mb Ram-chips. Now I`m clocking in at a whooping 96mb RAM and life is good. Just a tip if you`re strugglin and have tried everything else. regards , Thomas From ???@??? Sun Aug 30 17:20:14 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA30405; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 17:48:00 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 17:48:00 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: PMimlitsch@aol.com Message-ID: <3704c380.35e9c4c0@aol.com>> Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 17:31:44 EDT To: taptalk@ari.net, Sticknews@aol.com, stickwire-l@majordomo.netcom.com, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Tap/Loop gigs Content-type: text/plain X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 84 Resent-Message-ID: <"YAeDp2.0.Nu5.DKSwr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1478 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Sat. Sept. 5. 7-9pm Borders Books/Music, Mays Landing N.J. (609)407-1960 w/"Adelante" (Paul Mimlitsch, J. Janetta-Percussion, Dan Ott-Saxes/Flutes) Fri. Sept.11 evening 3rd. St. Gallery, Phila. (215) 625-0993 Solo w/J. Janetta percussion/treated voice. Also performing on the same bill will be Wash. DC guitar duo loopsters "Fingerpaint". This is part of the Phila. "Fringe Festival" concert series. More info/schedule at: <> Sat. Sept. 12 noon - ? "Tagfest" (Trenton Avant Garde Festival) w/ "Invasion of Time" (Paul Mimlitsch, Jim Speer Stick/Loops, J. Janetta percussion) Info: <from all over the Garden State, Pennsylvania and beyond. For directions and general information, call the Trenton Visitor's Bureau at (609) 777- 1770.>> Thanks for reading/listening. - Paul (12st. WarrArtist/Grand Stick/various loopers/processors) From ???@??? Sun Aug 30 17:20:15 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA03208; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 19:05:19 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 19:05:19 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: GRAIGORY2@aol.com Message-ID: <3f108679.35e9d58b@aol.com>> Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 18:43:23 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: PC MIDI Question.. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"vgpf11.0.eu5.0NTwr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1479 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com word.... The computer I have now, (pentium 90) can go up to 128MB of RAM... right now I only have 20... but I want a new computer... nah mean... Who on this list records to DAT from their computers? Mini Discs? From ???@??? Sun Aug 30 17:20:16 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA06171; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 19:11:12 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 19:11:12 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <19980830225308.27945.rocketmail@attach1.rocketmail.com> Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 15:53:08 -0700 (PDT) From: "Rev. Doubt-Goat" Subject: Re: Hypothetical Question To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"aG2Ol2.0.3l7.hZTwr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1480 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com 93 --Mark Kata wrote: > If your looper had 10 minutes of looping time, what would you do with it? > How would it affect your music? Hmmmm! Well, the first thing that I would probably do is start looping entire song structures, like jazz charts or blues, or slowed down peices, etc. This would really turn a looper into a real-time, interactive monsterous layering multitrack recorder!!! Heh. Know where I can get one? 93 Rev. Doubt-Goat === The Homepages of the Doubt-Goat The Darsan Trio Sekhet Maat Oasis, O.T.O. http://www.spiritone.com/~skhtmt/ _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From ???@??? Sun Aug 30 19:36:47 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id UAA12889; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 20:39:21 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 20:39:21 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199808310019.UAA15930@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: S'more Sampling and Zappa Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 20:08:27 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Bt1MV3.0.Cv.AmUwr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1481 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > > Since we're speaking of Mister Frank Zappa, I'd like to ask if anyone has > heard his Civilization Phase III ? That to me is his best work ever. State > of the art musicians, sampling, mixing, and just about everything else. And > it's pretty funny to listen to all the "in-betweener"parts of speech. > Jeff Collins one of my faves, as well... Gail Zappa has been sitting on the release of another jazz from heel/Civ Phaze III synclav type CD... amongst others... c'mon Gail!! The spoken stuff on Civ III is roughly continuous, and very connected to, from the spoken stuff on Lumpy Gravy andre' From ???@??? Sun Aug 30 19:36:49 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id UAA17099; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 20:47:24 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 20:47:24 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199808310033.UAA19286@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: Re: Tap/Loop gigs Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 20:28:38 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wYHq91.0.kS2.SzUwr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1482 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com ---------- From: PMimlitsch@aol.com Sat. Sept. 12 noon - ? "Tagfest" (Trenton Avant Garde Festival) w/ "Invasion of Time" (Paul Mimlitsch, Jim Speer Stick/Loops, J. Janetta percussion) Info: < In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980830011449.007da110@wavefront.com> References: <939443c1.35e88475@aol.com>> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 17:37:20 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: ASR-X Pro vs. MPC2000 Resent-Message-ID: <"qfV0a.0.t93.w2Vwr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1483 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 11:14 PM -0700 8/29/98, Chuck Zwicky wrote: >This may seem to be a minor point, but my experience is that American >companies are much more responsive to customer input than the Japanese >companies. I have been very happy with ensoniq in particular. > >-Chuck Zwicky heh, ensoniq was bought by Creative Labs earlier this year - Creative is from Singapore. Creative also owns E-mu. It'll be interesting to see how that affects things.... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Aug 30 20:39:24 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id WAA32365; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 22:35:47 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 22:35:47 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: "Douglas Lawrence" To: Subject: RE: ASR-X Pro vs. MPC2000 Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 21:40:37 -0400 Message-ID: <000001bdd485$c9ddb110$87500218@cc1006472-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"kw8_l3.0.TB6.wWWwr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1486 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >>heh, Ensoniq was bought by Creative Labs earlier this year - Creative is >>from Singapore. Creative also owns E-mu. It'll be interesting to see how >>that affects things.... >>kim ... but the Ensoniq folks are still located in good 'ole Malvern, Pennsylvania. I have no idea where they actually manufacture their products. To me it seems like Ensoniq is trying to seriously pare down their product line and focus on making specific market-driven products. This may be the Creative Technology bean counters watching the bottom line. How this will effect the quality and direction, who knows? I do know that quite a few people are starting to complain about the quality of Kurzweil keyboards since they were purchased by Young Chang. They seem to rely on their resellers for additional support, such as Sweetwater. It doesn't seem like Ensoniq has been able to build up that kind of following. Another angle is Yamaha. I almost never hear anybody complain about the quality of their products, just the customer support. Yamaha A3000 OS 2.0 is a good example ... it too them about a year to get it out in response to customers wishes. Geez, if we could only get the Yamaha, EMU, Akai, and Ensoniq engineers together with Kim .... hey Kim, you own an MPC2000, don't ya? Any opinions? From ???@??? Sun Aug 30 20:39:26 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id XAA12001; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 23:04:25 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 23:04:25 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35EA003F.3DC9174C@latrobe.edu.au> Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 12:45:33 +1100 From: Brad Knox Reply-To: B.Knox@latrobe.edu.au X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Jam Man For Sale References: <004e01bdd25e$66ba8320$84084382@hovard> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sa2L22.0.nS1.izWwr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1489 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Thomas Whni wrote: > "JEEZ ,Flo , I`m gittin` outta here. Look what this machine`s done to `em!" > its probably more like "JEEZ ,Flo , I`m gittin` outta here. Look what this machine`s done to `em!" "JEEZ ,Flo , I`m gittin` outta here. Look what this machine`s done to `em!" "JEEZ ,Flo , I`m gittin` outta here. Look what this machine`s done to `em!" "JEEZ ,Flo , I`m gittin` outta here. Look what this machine`s done to `em!" "JEEZ ,Flo , I`m gittin` outta here. Look what this machine`s done to `em!" "!me` ot enod s`enihcam siht tahw kooL .ereh attuo `nittig m`I , olF, ZEEJ" "!me` ot enod s`enihcam siht tahw kooL .ereh attuo `nittig m`I , olF, ZEEJ" "!me` ot enod s`enihcam siht tahw kooL .ereh attuo `nittig m`I , olF, ZEEJ" "!me` ot enod s`enihcam siht tahw kooL .ereh attuo `nittig m`I , olF, ZEEJ" "arrrrgggggh!" (knock, knock (who's there) Steve Reich Steve Reich Steve Reich Steve Reich) From ???@??? Sun Aug 30 19:36:55 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id WAA21128; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 22:10:07 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 22:10:07 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: GRAIGORY2@aol.com Message-ID: <6652da9b.35ea02a4@aol.com>> Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 21:55:48 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: ASR-X Pro vs. MPC2000 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"BaFuP1.0.Fj3.BBWwr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1484 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com i wouldnt be surprised to see computer versions of asr's and what not in a few years From ???@??? Sun Aug 30 19:36:57 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id WAA31012; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 22:32:43 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 22:32:43 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: "Douglas Lawrence" To: Subject: Samples ... BUT NOT MUSIC Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 22:00:43 -0400 Message-ID: <000101bdd485$cb494f00$87500218@cc1006472-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"8UpmV2.0.eB6.yWWwr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1487 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Check out this bizarre study of voice samples in songs ... somebody has way too much time on their hands. http://www.ee.pdx.edu/~alf/html/grouplist.html From ???@??? Sun Aug 30 19:36:56 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id WAA25585; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 22:20:09 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 22:20:09 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Crossedout@aol.com Message-ID: <19a1d906.35ea05a6@aol.com>> Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 22:08:38 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: PC MIDI Question.. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"9KPbR.0.u25.3NWwr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1485 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 8/30/98 12:04:56 AM Central Daylight Time, nick@simons- rock.edu writes: << I'll need a midi card for my computer. Is there a super cheap one that I can just use for this transfer of data and sysex dumps and things of that nature? what does that run? new/used? >> I think you can get midi cards rather cheap, but I know if you have a sound card, you can get an adapter to make the joystick port a midi in/out port for about $20 brand new. And most sound cards will support that. Good luck. - Bill Crossedout@aol.com From ???@??? Sun Aug 30 20:39:23 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id WAA31340; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 22:33:26 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 22:33:26 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: dmgraph@mail.bway.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <01BDCD13.7EE08D00.mpeters@csi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 22:20:40 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: David Myers Subject: Looping finds Resent-Message-ID: <"fC-7d2.0.vH6.iXWwr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1488 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com New personal listens loopers may want to tune in: Pluramon, recording on the Mille Plataux label (force@mail.pop-frankfurt.com): "Pick up Canyon" and "Render Bandits"--lotsa nice loops and plenty guitar, beyond ambient Monolake, on Chain Reaction label: "HongKong"--more toward electronica, real nice background listen Plasikman, on Novamute (too bad they like 5 point type, us old folks can't even read the address with a magnifying glass): "Consumed"--even more in the electronica camp, but still a couple steps removed from the dance floor And if you don't know of Microstoria and Oval on Chicago's Thrill Jockey label, search 'em on the web (forget the address), or: Box 476794, Chicago 60647 All these people seem connected to each other (Marcus Popp, Jan St. Werner, Marcus Schmickler, etc.), so if you find one, you're likely to hear of the others.... From ???@??? Mon Aug 31 10:35:02 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id GAA22230; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 06:24:34 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 06:24:34 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199808311009.LAA06938@mailhost.dircon.co.uk> Subject: sorry... Date: Mon, 31 Aug 98 11:12:03 -0000 x-sender: veilmaya@popmail.dircon.co.uk x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: tim spear To: "Stickwire list" , , , , Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"7p0881.0.BE4.DRdwr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1491 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >Sat. Sept. 12 noon - ? "Tagfest" (Trenton Avant Garde Festival) w/ "Invasion >of Time" (Paul Mimlitsch, Jim Speer Stick/Loops, J. Janetta percussion) >Info: maybe me, jim speer and tony and adam should get together and form "spear/speer/levin/levin"... just a thought.. Tim Spear Veilmaya - http://www.veilmaya.org/ ICQ : http://wwp.mirabilis.com/6352759 EmailExpress: 6352759@pager.mirabilis.com From ???@??? Mon Aug 31 10:35:15 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id KAA01572; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 10:55:04 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 10:55:04 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 10:39:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199808311439.KAA27195@user1.channel1.com> X-Sender: seahorse@user1.channel1.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Frank Gerace Subject: Re: Jamman acting too crazy.. Resent-Message-ID: <"Pw8Cl1.0.6n6.pMhwr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1492 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com We had a similar problem with one of our JamMen. When we plugged it in and soundchecked it was fine, but by the time settime rolled around, the pedals wouldn't work and the buttons on the front panel were frozzen. We sent it to Lexicon, (Greg was very very helpful) and they replaced switches. We still had the problem, although only when connected to the mixer (a Mackie 1202VLZ) So we sent the mixer back to Mackie after having the electrician check the current in the rehearsal space (which was fine with all the gear up and running). We replaced all the cables to the pedals and when we got the mixer back, (Mackie found no problems) we hooked everything up and it works fine. So, I have no idea what was actually causing the problem. We tried using the other Jamman in similar circumstances and it only failed when hooked up to the Mackie, and when the failing JamMan was hooked up to the other good Macie, it was fine. We switched cables and footswithes galore . My guess is there must have been a bad cord somewhere, but that's only a guess. Both JamMen and Mackies work fine now, although the reset button on the footswith to mine is dead. Good luck sorting this out. I'd talk to Greg and let them look at it. They're very thorough and very helpful. Frank Gerace Dreamchild At 10:17 PM 8/28/98 -0500, you wrote: >i have a local friend that just bought a used Jamman. and its screwy...i did >a DRAM test,,,and thats ok. >it seems to behave ok (most of the time) when triggered from the front. but >when you plug in the foot pedal, it goes bonkers, and the front light goes >out, and stays out. the problem isnt the footpedal or cord. >i gave my friend Greg Hogans #,,but he got a message saying that he is out >of the office till wed. >my friend doesnt know whether to send it back, or try to get it >fixed....does this sound like,,a cheap problem, or an expensive >one,,,,anyone???,,,,,sorry i could'nt get even more vague..just thought >someone might have seen this type of problem before > >thanks, >james > > > From ???@??? Mon Aug 31 10:35:14 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id KAA01535; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 10:55:00 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 10:55:00 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <35EAB6F3.3A97@mdbs.com> Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 09:45:07 -0500 From: "Dennis W. Leas" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; U) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: collage (was:FNV-RIAA IS CRACKING DOWN) References: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"KSdAZ1.0.4_6.iOhwr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1493 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Crossedout@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 8/28/98 3:41:32 AM Central Daylight Time, hovard@online.no > writes: > > << But couldn`t Van Halen deny them the right to cover his song? >> > > I'm not sure, but I think if you pay the royalty assigned to cover versions, > you can record and release whatever you want. As I recall: 1) When you create a work, you own the copyright to the work. The copyright is yours since you are the creator. No paperwork is necessary. 2) You register your copyright with the US government. Do not confuse your creation of the work (which means you own the copyright) with your registration of the copyright (which means you sent in paperwork, etc.). You may chose to register your copyright to increase your legal evidence should your copyright ownership be distputed. The government does not grant you a copyright, that is your right as the creator. The government functions as a service to register copyright claims. 3) As the copyright owner, you have the right to first publication of the work. You can refuse anybody the right to publish (i.e., to record and distribute) until you have done so. 4) Once you have published, you cannot refuse the right for someone else to publish; however, they must pay you a royalty. - Dennis Leas From ???@??? Mon Aug 31 22:00:10 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id UAA04124; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 20:37:16 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 20:37:16 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: PJBMHB@aol.com Message-ID: <32ffc6fc.35eb3fa0@aol.com> Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 20:28:16 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Jamman acting too crazy..(POLTERGEISTS)??? =-O Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Resent-Message-ID: <"hdXxW.0.In.D_pwr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1494 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com every once in a while my jamman goes bonkers too. not really sure why. the volume will fade in and out. i know the pots on mine are very finnicky. i think it makes the jamman all the more MYSTERIOUS. jamman poltergeists, perhaps? =-) PJ From ???@??? Mon Aug 31 22:00:19 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id AAA27575; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 00:10:48 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 00:10:48 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980901035710.00c7c6fc@artist-shop.com> X-Sender: artshop@artist-shop.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 23:57:10 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Gary Davis Subject: Forever Sharp & Vivid Resent-Message-ID: <"Ug0-l3.0.sR6.Z5twr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1495 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hi, folks! The latest Artist Shop newsletter is out and you'll find it in its entirety at . But here's a little excerpt from it that will be of interest to loopers. We have an exciting new release available from LoLo Records , Forever Sharp and Vivid: DAVID TORN - guitar CHRIS MASSEY - drums DAVID CASTIGLIONE - bass clarinet, sax The music of the newly formed eclectic trio, FOREVER, SHARP & VIVID, is draped across the influences of jazz and rock by one of the most accomplished improvising guitarist in the last two decades. DAVID TORN being of both worlds, with his amiable exploratory spirit and forever evolving loop effects, provides the framework for this group which includes fellow New Yorkers, drummer CHRIS MASSEY and multi-reed player DAVID CASTIGLIONE. Massey and Castiglione, probing and jabbing like prize-fighters, bob and weave behind Torn's multiple layers conjuring up ghosts of early Tony Williams / Bobby Hutcherson experiments or Terje Rypdals "Descendre" era explorations. Also, Bon Lozaga of Gongzilla tells me that they are planning a tour of the midwest to take place in November and/or January. I have seen nothing but rave reviews of their performances during their recent east coast tour. Bon says they would like to set up gigs as a double bill with local progressive bands with a strong following. If you're associated with a venue or local progressive band that is interested in bringing Gongzilla to your town, then drop me a note and I'll forward it to Bon. Spread the word. Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com artshop@artist-shop.com phone: 330-929-2056 fax:330-945-4923 SUPPORT THE INDEPENDENT ARTIST!!! ************************************************************** Check out the latest Artist Shop newsletter at http://www.artist-shop.com/news.htm