From ???@??? Wed Jul 01 16:38:32 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA23303; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 19:33:47 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 19:33:47 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199807012332.TAA21610@mail.his.com> Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 17:58:31 +0200 From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: fs: Digitech PDS 8000 "Echo Machine" 8 second delay/looper/sampler Resent-Message-ID: <"5mfl13.0.Cd5.pSicr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/446 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Quite a bit over priced in my book, but just in case you have to have one of these. I love my rack mount RDS 8000. But I doubt if you can manipulate the pedal to the same degree or as easy.... perhaps if you're good with your toes... Patrick " attempting to make a joke" Smith > From: bobbyzzz@aol.com (Bobby ZZZ) > Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth > Subject: fs: Digitech PDS 8000 "Echo Machine" 8 second delay/looper/sampler > Lines: 7 > Message-ID: <1998070122323900.SAA29303@ladder01.news.aol.com> > NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com > X-Admin: news@aol.com > Date: 1 Jul 1998 22:32:39 GMT > Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com > Path: news4.his.com!news.lightlink.com!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!152.163.199.19!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail > > fs: Digitech PDS 8000 8 second digital delay/looping pedal. does delays from > 10ms-8000ms...has sampling, triggering, and infinite repeat modes. GREAT delay > pedal, and an affordable alternative to the EH 16 second delay pedal. in > 8.5/10 condition, all original, works 100%, all knobs and switches 100%, some > minor scratches in the paint. works from one 9v battery. $200 or trade for > other interesting pedals or synthesizers. email for more info. -- Fingerpaint Web Site: www.fingerpaint.net Now available Primary Colors: BLUE From ???@??? Wed Jul 01 13:56:02 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA09459; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 14:02:12 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 14:02:12 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199807011800.OAA07364@nexus.idirect.com> From: "Brian MacDougall" To: , Subject: Re: Re[2]: [2998] Major Lapel Decals... >>> Loop-Philes INDEED! Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 13:54:34 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JIrau2.0.tD2.sbdcr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/437 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I agree why can't people just get along no matter what the style or colour of their clothing ---------- > From: andre > To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Subject: Re: Re[2]: [2998] Major Lapel Decals... >>> Loop-Philes INDEED! > Date: June 30, 1998 10:20 PM > > yeah!! > > what's all this talk of "major lapels"?? > > i for one wear T-shirts or guaraches when cold and so- have no lapels.... > am i to be left out ??? > > and what if you're not a major, much less a colonel or even a private ?? > > i'm confused. From ???@??? Wed Jul 01 13:56:04 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA18873; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 14:25:08 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 14:25:08 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <000901bda51d$a8dc81e0$c2b854ce@asint.asisoftware.com> From: Mark@asisoftware.com (Mark Kata) To: "Loopers Delight" Subject: Looping Techniques Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 14:25:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"YC5621.0.OX4.Txdcr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/438 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I have been searching for new looping techniques that I could use to freshen my loops with little or no cash outlay. Here are the techniques I came up with: TECHNIQUE 1 - RECORDING THE ELEMENTS OF A LOOP I always improvise my loops. However, one day it occurred to me that if I heard a recording of one of my completed loops, I would have a very difficult time to duplicating it. This caused me to consider taking a line from my signal path just before it goes to my JamMan and patching it into one of the channels on my multi-track recorder. This would make it simple to hear each element that made up the loop without hearing the entire loop. (Of course, I would also run a line from my JamMan into another channel on my multi-track recorder.) TECHNIQUE 2 - RE-LOOPING After I have recorded the elements of a loop using TECHNIQUE 1, above, I thought it would be interesting to feed it into my rig, re-process it with different effects and run it into my JamMan with different delay time and feedback settings. Has anyone employed these techniques? Does anyone have other techniques to offer? Thanks, Mark Kata Mark@asisoftware.com From ???@??? Wed Jul 01 13:56:13 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA27071; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 14:44:06 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 14:44:06 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: mchriste@panther.middlebury.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000901bda51d$a8dc81e0$c2b854ce@asint.asisoftware.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 14:40:39 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: murkie Subject: Re: Looping Techniques Resent-Message-ID: <"A6JYw3.0.AX6.8Decr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/439 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > Does anyone have other techniques to >offer? currently at the bottom of my rack is a sony minidisc recorder. the "loop" portion of my signal goes to the left channel, and my soloing goes to the right. this gives me a (relatively) cheap digital recording that i can easilly edit and re-process for later use. if i'm feeling particularly inspired, i just take the digital out of my lexicon mpx-100 and go into the digital in of the sony. no way to separate out the solos, but sweet sound! m M a r k C h r i s t e n s e n Cramped Quarters Studio / Jasperpottamus Music i n t e r n e t : murkie@middlebury.edu http://www.middlebury.edu/~mchriste/murkie.html From ???@??? Wed Jul 01 13:56:16 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA08220; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 15:16:08 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 15:16:08 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD0462ACF@migarexch01.maritz.com> From: "Liebig, Steuart A." To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: Major/Minor Labels . . . DIY Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 14:14:39 -0500 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Resent-Message-ID: <"rGuAp.0.Tw1.Checr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/442 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > I think that Tim Berne's Screw Gun label is a good example of > someone who's gone through both the major (Columbia) and indie (JMT, which > got bought up by Polygram) label wars and decided to go back to doing his > own label. It's mostly gigs and mail-order, no internet sales yet, tho' he > does have an internet site. > > He has a lot of pretty good stuff out (even sold 2,500+ of a 3-CD > live set of avant jazz-which I figure is pretty damn good). > > 'Course, it helped that he already had a good profile for that sort > of music. > > stig > > > From ???@??? Thu Jul 02 01:21:13 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id EAA00998; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 04:19:57 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 04:19:57 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Sender: r_t_cummings@csi.com Message-ID: <359AA700.1100D90F@csi.com> Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 23:15:44 +0200 From: Cummings X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: [2998] Major Lapel Decals... >>> Loop-Philes INDEED! References: <199806301139_MC2-51AB-5A81@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4932U2.0.WA.w9qcr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/450 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I didn't believe it meself but colluder is indeed a word ... :-) Rob > > One who is in collusion... All right all you lit majors! Is this a > real word, or am I improvising again? 8-> > > -Miko > > >> miko- what the heck is a colluder?...........michale From ???@??? Wed Jul 01 14:09:36 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA24297; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 17:05:16 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 17:05:16 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <359AB3F0.518F@leland.stanford.edu> Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 14:11:06 -0800 From: Andrew Kringstein Organization: Stanford University X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.02 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: SP-808 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4oN_N3.0.Ts5.ZHgcr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/444 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Whatup All: Anybody work with or know someone who has worked with the new Roland SP-808 workstation? Any reviews? Any and all details would be appreciated. Thanks mucho. AK kringer@cmgm.stanford.edu From ???@??? Thu Jul 02 11:26:53 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id HAA29116; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 07:07:08 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 07:07:08 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 05:32:07 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: Primary Colors: BLUE reviewed Resent-Message-ID: <"8rXJl3.0.U27.ocscr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/453 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hey Loopers...Just in from Juxtapostion E-zine. For more reviews, etc. go to http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm > > Primary Colors: Blue > Fingerpaint > FNGP CD 98001 > > A noisier step beyond their previous cassette only release Enormous > Swirling Sound. Since that tape Fingerpaint seems to have become > obsessed with analog equipment giving the cd a darker sound. While it > shows less Fripp influence - Steev Geest and Patrick Smith were/are > ex-Crafty Guitar students, I can hear that they're also hip to current > trends in ambient. It's always great to hear artists grow and there is > growth on this cd. Fingerpaint takes another step into the unknown and > lands on both fingers. > > http://www.fingerpaint.net Peace, Patrick Now Available: FingerPaint Primary Colors: BLUE A guitar-synth looping duo of dark illbience and dreamy ambience. Shockwave audio featuring our newest release Primary Colors:Blue www.fingerpaint.net From ???@??? Wed Jul 01 22:30:55 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id BAA27157; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 01:11:36 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 01:11:36 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Nemoguitt@aol.com Message-ID: <257abfed.359b15b6@aol.com> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 01:08:05 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Looping Techniques Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"Rtdci.0.aZ6.RPncr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/448 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com wow mark-looping content, oh heart be still........thanks........michael From ???@??? Wed Jul 01 22:52:50 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id BAA02799; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 01:32:49 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 01:32:49 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <009801bda57a$91d83220$13da80d0@toaster.431.org> From: "James Reynolds" To: "Looper's Delight" Subject: Creamware Scope - computer based looping? Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 22:30:27 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"Cerwm1.0.Bd.Sjncr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/449 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Has anyone else checked out the upcoming Scope system from Creamware and theorized about its potential for realtime looping applications? For those who don't know, it's basically a souped-up DSP card that goes in your PC or Mac, with 2.7 gigaflops of power (or more with add-on cards), which does synthesis, sampling, effects, mixing, etc., all realtime, with modular units you can connect however you want, building your own synths and effects and multi-I/O studio setups. At least from the hype I've read thus far, it seems like it would be possible to create your own customized realtime computer-based looper with this system. According to Creamware, it's a completely modular system - you just place modules on a virtual workspace and connect however you want, and you can even go into the individual modules and tweak them to your specific needs. Almost all parameters are controllable in realtime via MIDI. You can build your own customized user interface for the devices you create. It's multi-I/O, so you can have a number of busses, aux sends, and whatnot connecting your devices, both virtual (in Scope) and physical (via a multi-I/O interface). I could be wrong about the looping potential, but the buzzwords that caught my attention were "realtime", "control", "modular", "customized", etc.. Anyone have any opinions about this, or know of any other sources of information on Scope besides the Creamware site (http://www.creamware.com/Seiten/scope/clframe_scope_scope0.htm) and the report at Harmony Central (http://www.harmony-central.com/Newp/MusikMesse98/Creamware/SCOPE.html)? James From ???@??? Thu Jul 02 11:26:46 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id FAA26811; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 05:31:42 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 05:31:42 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <002401bda59a$ddceb4e0$0d01a8c0@Remote> From: "Steve Lauder" To: Subject: Re: Creamware Scope - computer based looping? Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 10:21:24 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"Spb2F3.0.uU6.KDrcr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/452 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I don't know about anyone else, but I think this is a piece of kit to get really excited about. Although on the article it only shows 6 DSPs on board, in the press releases section (Under "June") it states that the card will now come with 15 DSPs running at twice the speed the original DSPs on the beta card did! The only thing I'm not sure about is the price tag - $6,500. That's a lot of cash. Mind you, if manufacturers start converting some of their more popular hardware synths for use with the card, it could well be worth the money. From ???@??? Thu Jul 02 11:26:56 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id IAA23789; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 08:13:00 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 08:13:00 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 08:11:30 -0400 (EDT) From: David Talento X-Sender: legion@unix01 To: Loopers Delight cc: legion@voicenet.com Subject: FS/FT Eventide Harmonizer Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"PWaX92.0.wj5.Matcr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/454 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Sorry if this get's sent twice. My mail seems to be having some problems. If you see this and are interetsed please drop me a line as it might not show up on my system for a while. thanks- ------------------------------------------------------------- FS/FT Eventide Harmonizer I just got this in trade and don't need it. it looks like a monster (especially the CV controllable part) so I'm hoping someone here can use it before I have to post it for the sharks. This two space rack unit is hardwired for Input, two independant outputs, and CV/remote input. In addition to the delay settings which can be run independantly from the Harmonizer it has a -.5 to +2 octave pitch ratio which can be controlled manually from the front pannel, or via a keyboard or CV. While I'm told it works perfectly I haven't set it up so I have to sell it as is. It does boot up and all knobs, switches, etc appear to be fine. There are buttons and knobs galore along with the red LED. You will need to wire 1/4 connectors to the in/outs but this is *very* easy to do and can be done with standard guitar cords or cheap mono cables or jacks from Radio Shack. I have full pics of the front and back at: Http://www.voicenet.com/~legion/eventide.htm Based on the last used gear pricelist I will sell it for the best offer at or over $300. I am looking for a used Waldorf Pulse, Waldorf Xpole filter, eccentric analogs, Doepfer or other modules or old effects such as a roland rack SPH phaser, weird stomps, etc. email any questions. I'll post this to usenet after a day or two here ... thanks! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- HELP WANTED PRODUCTIONS - Http://www.voicenet.com/~legion "Bringing you the best in Organic Electronic music since we started..." Home of the Unusual Instrument and Recording Gallery with pictures and info of Tube recorders, Omnichords, weird guitars, Casios, and more. From ???@??? Thu Jul 02 11:26:57 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id IAA07016; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 08:53:44 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 08:53:44 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Dpcoffin@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 08:51:11 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: Creamware Scope - computer based looping? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 84 Resent-Message-ID: <"7i7Wh1.0.od1.YAucr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/455 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Yeah, Scope looks like the future...until you see the price ($6,500 is a LOW estimate, based on what I've seen in recent press releases), and then realize that this is really just the next generation of Symbolic Sound's $4500 Kyma--which can also do whatever you want with sound, all at the same time, and has a long development history and helpful user base--(Scope uses the new SHARC dsp chip, instead of the old Motorola workhorse that Kyma uses), but the price is going UP! btw, the SHARC chip is already in use in a +/- $1000 card from Analog Devices that runs CSound (an even earlier blank-slate dsp program) in realtime. When the SHARC chip shows up in something from Roland ( or Korg, etc....), THEN the likes of US will have seen the future!:-) dpc From ???@??? Thu Jul 02 11:27:00 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id JAA26318; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 09:41:37 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 09:41:37 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Marzzz@aol.com Message-ID: <1d546633.359b8da1@aol.com> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 09:39:43 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Creamware Scope - computer based looping? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 84 Resent-Message-ID: <"ePVa2.0.iL6.atucr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/456 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 7/2/98 7:53:21 AM, you wrote: <> I agree, I was reading these posts and thinking, "yeah, but the Kyma System does all that already." Considering the people at Symbolic Sound are not afraid of writing a bunch of code, as more powerful hardware platforms are developed, they will port their systems over to it. The Kyma System is so open-ended I wouldn't know where to start...... Marshall From ???@??? Thu Jul 02 11:27:05 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id KAA24362; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 10:53:36 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 10:53:36 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <359B9F5A.62F6@mdbs.com> Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 09:55:22 -0500 From: "Dennis W. Leas" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; U) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: EDP question References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Ei3OR1.0.nt5.7xvcr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/457 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hello, All! I'm seeing some unexplained behaviour from my two EDPs and I'm hoping that someone can explain it (Kim?). I'll try to describe the set-up as clearly as possible. EDP 1 (Master) audio in <------- (from board) sync: OUT audio out -------> (to board) 8ths/beat: 1 MIDI out ----+ SwitchQuant: CYC | MoreLoops: 3L | | | EDP 2 (Slave) MIDI in -----+ sync: IN audio in <------- (from board) 8ths/beat: 1 audio out -------> (to board) SwitchQuant: CYC MoreLoops: 3L I record a loop in EDP 1 and MULTIPLY it into 8 cycles; the display shows EDP 1:LOOP: 1 LOOPTIME: 3.4 MULTIPLE: (cycles from 1 through 8) I record a loop in EDP 2 and MULTIPLY it into 2 cycles; the display shows: EDP 2:LOOP: 1 LOOPTIME: 13.8 MULTIPLE: (cycles from 1 to 2) On EDP 2, I want to do a NEXT LOOP/MULTIPLE type of loop copy. Unfortunately, EDP 2 does not enter a lame duck period; it switches to LOOP 2 immediately when NEXT LOOP is hit. Interestingly, if I change EDP 2 to sync: OFF, then it works as expected (of course, the units are no longer synched). In other words, EDP 2 seems to ignore SwitchQuant=CYC when Sync=IN. So, how do I do a NEXT LOOP/MULTIPLY loop copy on a slave unit? - Dennis Leas From ???@??? Thu Jul 02 11:27:12 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA07351; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 11:30:45 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 11:30:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 16:26:32 +0100 Message-ID: <0014708D.1424@mail.bl.uk> From: David.Orton@mail.bl.uk (David Orton) Subject: Looping (somewhere else) near London [UK] To: "Loopers Delight" Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"Sb6p_3.0.Rj1.xTwcr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/458 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com By way of a change, I will be appearing at the Churchill Theatre in Bromley, Kent on Friday and Saturday, 3 & 4th July, as part of its 21st birthday celebrations . The Theatre is holding two Open Days, when people can come in, wander around back-stage etc and see all the hidden secrets that jobs-worths would normally shoo them clear of. Anyway, I'll be looping like anything on the stage in the foyer from 3.30pm-4.30pm on both days, and I've placed a couple of additional WAVs culled (painlessly, of course) from Sunday's practice session on the Web via: Ta ever so David (oh yes - make a note now - 31st July, British Library entrance hall 12-2pm) From ???@??? Thu Jul 02 11:27:15 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA13606; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 11:45:38 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 11:45:38 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <359BABC9.E46F8858@intcpi.com> Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 11:48:26 -0400 From: "John Price" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: SP-808 References: <359AB3F0.518F@leland.stanford.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"y1UGc2.0.PH3.rhwcr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/459 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I'm interested in this product too. Aint this doohickey the sequel to the sp202 ??? If I recall its supposed to be like a 4-trak except that everything is backed up to an external zip drive or somethin. I also read it on the roland web site that the 808 does the same things as the 202 but it has a dimension beam thingey like the mc505 to control the flow of tempo with hand motions. I havent had the time to ck the sp808 out face to face but im curious as to just what the quality of the samplin be. I know that the reproduction of sound on the sp202 is ok but not anywhere near to crystal clear. Thats good and bad depending on how ur about your sound. I'm extremely anal bout crystal clear unless gritt is called for. Personally, I like the idea of being able to save stuff and sync beats and stuff. Its just that I'm always cautious about the "Hype" a manufacturer places behind their products. Next to bringin out ya entire rig to a Music store, ya never know til ya have it in yer hands how a chumpy will work for you. The price on a 202 beats an echoplex and jamman's but Im not certain if the 202 or 808 ( which is priced significantly higher than the 202 ) is somthin ya want or could easilly integrate into ya rig. I'd be delighted to hear from the others who have and use these products or know the low down on what they can or cant do well. Regards, JP Andrew Kringstein wrote: > Whatup All: > > Anybody work with or know someone who has worked with the new Roland > SP-808 workstation? Any reviews? Any and all details would be > appreciated. > > Thanks mucho. > > AK > > kringer@cmgm.stanford.edu From ???@??? Thu Jul 02 23:03:18 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id UAA01701; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 20:07:39 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 20:07:39 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 18:32:44 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: Re: Jamman memory Resent-Message-ID: <"zn3DW1.0.pN.c22dr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/466 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >Does anyone know what exactly is so special about the memory for a >Jamman? Do you really have to get it from Lexicon? >D- > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com No you just need the chip. Lexicon has no "special" chip. Patrick Now Available: FingerPaint Primary Colors: BLUE A guitar-synth looping duo of dark illbience and dreamy ambience. Shockwave audio featuring our newest release Primary Colors:Blue www.fingerpaint.net From ???@??? Thu Jul 02 12:38:05 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA03295; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 14:30:12 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 14:30:12 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199807021828.LAA22672@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: Creamware Scope - computer based looping? To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 11:28:55 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <009801bda57a$91d83220$13da80d0@toaster.431.org> from "James Reynolds" at Jul 1, 98 10:30:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"SUjB63.0.jm.F6zcr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/460 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I've been following the news on SCOPE and Kyma with great interest. As mentioned by others, they are competing products that offer integrated synthesis, sampling, processing, recording, etc. in a single environment that runs on DSPs so that the host processor is not overloaded. The relevant URLs are SCOPE http://www.creamware.com/Seiten/scope/clframe_scope_scope0.htm Kyma http://www.symbolicsound.com/ Based on what I have seen so far, these are my comparison takes: SCOPE Pros: - Will run on faster processors than the Motorola 56002 DSPs used in the Capybara, the box which does the real work for Kyma. - Supports physical modeling - External controller consisting of a touch-sensitive screen and 20 knobs. If this controller will talk to the system directly (not through MIDI), this sounds intriguing. The problem with adjusting parameters through MIDI is that most parameters have 127 possible values (in fact, I think fine pitch bend, which is a two-byte value, is the only MIDI controller value with more than 127 steps). Kyma Pros: - A more mature system. Which means it will probably be a lot more stable, bug-free, etc. than SCOPE when SCOPE debuts. - Hardware sits in a separate, rack-mountable box instead of in a card that sits in your computer. I think this is a consideration for live gigging; a laptop/rackmounted Capybara combo is a far more road-worthy setup than a desktop PC/Mac + monitor. I know there are companies out there that sell rack-mountable PC cases for industrial use. Getting one of these and moving your PC's innards into it may solve one problem for gigging, but you still have to deal with that monitor. I think there are LCD color monitors out there but they may be quite pricey. The rising popularity of software synths, software effects/signal processing packages, etc. is interesting, but not much has been done yet in the way of developing a gig-worthy hardware platform for running these things, with the notable exception of the Capybara, which only runs the proprietary software (you can't run Seer Systems' Reality or something like that on it). Cheers, Paolo From ???@??? Thu Jul 02 12:38:08 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA04673; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 14:39:24 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 14:39:24 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199807021838.LAA22725@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: Re: Creamware Scope - computer based looping? To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 11:38:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: from "Dpcoffin@aol.com" at Jul 2, 98 08:51:11 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xjVKC3.0.X61.uEzcr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/461 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > Yeah, Scope looks like the future...until you see the price ($6,500 is a LOW > estimate, based on what I've seen in recent press releases), and then realize > that this is really just the next generation of Symbolic Sound's $4500 > Kyma--which can also do whatever you want with sound, all at the same time, > and has a long development history and helpful user base--(Scope uses the new > SHARC dsp chip, instead of the old Motorola workhorse that Kyma uses), but the > price is going UP! Besides switching to faster DSPs, I'd like to see the Kyma offer an external controller like SCOPE's. The touch-sensitive screen and 20 knobs together form a much more comfortable,immediate interface than just the standard mouse-and-windows thing. :) Cheers, Paolo From ???@??? Thu Jul 02 12:38:12 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA11770; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 15:24:13 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 15:24:13 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Edward_Chang@mail.amsinc.com X-Lotus-FromDomain: AMSINC To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Message-ID: <85256635.006B675F.00@ams-central-gate-5a.amsinc.com> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 15:34:41 -0400 Subject: Re: One-of-a-Kind Musik Artifakts Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"nKFv93.0.rq2.muzcr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/463 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Glad you got your tape and liked it. I think yours was one of the last ones (V5, no?), and I was in a more agro mode by then. But thanks for the generous comparisons. ed From ???@??? Thu Jul 02 23:03:12 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA11221; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 19:09:32 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 19:09:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <19980702230748.16110.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [207.242.12.177] From: "Dennis Coggia" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Jamman memory Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 16:07:48 PDT Resent-Message-ID: <"X3-AQ1.0.Hg2.2C1dr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/464 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Does anyone know what exactly is so special about the memory for a Jamman? Do you really have to get it from Lexicon? D- ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Thu Jul 02 23:03:14 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA21709; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 19:35:22 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 19:35:22 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980702163809.006b8d20@svars1.simi-valley.ate.slb.com> X-Sender: cavaleri@svars1.simi-valley.ate.slb.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 16:38:10 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Joe Cavaleri Subject: Re: Jamman memory Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Umdhf.0.nE5.Ja1dr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/465 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Try Visionsoft. http://www.visionsoft.com/ Chips are about $10.00 ea 1M x 4bit ZIP IC's (DRAM) faster than 100ns Manufactuer Motorola MCM54400AZ Hitachi HM514400AZP NEC D424400V Misubishi M5M44400L Micron MT4C4001JZ Fujitsu MB814400 At 04:07 PM 7/2/98 PDT, you wrote: >Does anyone know what exactly is so special about the memory for a >Jamman? Do you really have to get it from Lexicon? >D- > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > From ???@??? Thu Jul 02 23:03:20 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id UAA01953; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 20:08:50 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 20:08:50 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD0462AE3@migarexch01.maritz.com> From: "Liebig, Steuart A." To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: Gigs . . . some looping involved Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 19:07:50 -0500 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Resent-Message-ID: <"kuefL1.0.xS.q32dr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/467 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Howdy All, Well hitting the "road" (a wee bit) end of next week, thought I'd announce some upcoming gigs in the Golden State of California: 6 July: Luna Park, 665 North Robertson Ave. (Santa Monica Blvd at Robertson), LA: Napalm Quartet: GE Stinson (guitars/devices/loopage), Andrew Van Ah (guitars/stuff), Brian Christopherson (drummage), Steuart Liebig [me] (basses/loopage/stuff) second set with Woody Aplanalp (guitars/stuff) and Nels Cline (guitars/loopage) show begins at 9:30, $6.00 12 July: Beanbenders, 2295 Shattuck Ave, Berkeley: Liebig, Vinny Golia (saxophones), Billy Mintz (drums) second set with ??? (someone cancelled) show begins at 8:00, $5.00 13 July: Bruno's in San Francisco (don't know address yet): Scott Amendola (drums), Nels Cline, GE Stinson, Liebig don't know times or anything . . . sorry! 18 July: Art City 2, 31 Peking (Peking at Main), Ventura: Liebig, Vinny Golia (saxophones), Billy Mintz (drums) show at 8:30, $5.00 20 July: Luna Park, 665 North Robertson Ave. (Santa Monica Blvd at Robertson), LA: Liebig, John Fumo (Trumpet/flugelhorn), Alex Cline (drums/percussion) second set with Wayne Peet Trio: Peet (organ/synth), GE Stinson, Lance Lee (drums) show begins at 9:30, $6.00 Love to see anyone, anywhere . . . Sorry for the merciless mercantilism! stig From ???@??? Thu Jul 02 23:03:35 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id BAA16363; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 01:56:42 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 01:56:42 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 01:54:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Adam Levin X-Sender: alevin@ari.ari.net To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Gig with Loopage in Philly area tonight Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"BdLj01.0.Ow3.l97dr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/468 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Just a reminder that tonight (Friday the 3rd) we've got a real humdinger of a show at the William Bolton Dixon American Legion Hall located at 493 South Bethlehem Pike in Fort Washington, PA. This is just north of Philadelphia near where the Penn Turnpike meets up with 309. The headliner is Anekdoten, who if you aren't yet familiar with, are an excellent band from Sweden that have sometimes been compared with "Red" era King Crimson. The lineup is Jan Erik Liljestrom on vocals/bass, Anna Sofi Dahlberg on vocals/cello/mellotron (and she's been known to fire up a Jamman), Nicklas Berg on guitar/vocals/mellotron and Peter Nordin on drums. This is one of only 2* US shows that Anekdoten will be doing this year. Also on the bill is Always Almost featuring Brett Kull on vocals/guitar, Ray Weston on vocals/bass and Paul Ramsey on drums. These names will be familiar to fans of echolyn. It just so happens that the hall where this show will take place is where these guys recorded some parts of their classic echolyn album _Suffocating the Bloom_ Finally, The Dark Aether Project will be rounding out the lineup, featuring yours truly on Chapman Stick/guitar/ambient (and some not-so-ambient) loops (and if I'm feeling daring, I may whip out my sporty new electric mandolin), Yaman Aksu on fretted and fretless guitars/guitar synth and Brian Griffin on drums. Joining us as usual will be our special guest vocalist Jason Wilson of the band Emerald Tiers. Showtime is 7PM All ages are permitted Admission is $15 at the door Directions can be found on The Dark Aether Project Web Site at: http://www.darkaether.net/ *The 2nd and final US Anekdoten show will be on Thursday July 9th in Wheaton, MD just north of Washington DC. See the above website for more details. -Adam --- "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue, out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one becomes a Hearer." - Chandrakirti T h e D a r k A e t h e r P r o j e c t http://www.darkaether.net/ From ???@??? Fri Jul 03 12:02:22 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id HAA16824; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 07:57:46 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 07:57:46 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199807031156.HAA23389@mail-out-1.tiac.net> Subject: Klein Electric Site (setting the record straight) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 98 08:01:37 -0000 x-sender: jdurant@pop.tiac.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: jdurant To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"rCAmC2.0.i14.6SCdr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/470 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com OK, as a means of setting the record straight and putting for factual, correct information, there is now a site for Klein Electric Guitars (not to be confused with Steve Klein and his acoustic guitars and retail store). It can be found at: http://www.annihilist.com/klein/index.html There's lots of pics of Klein electric guitars currently in production, the lovely Klein Electric Bass, a nice profile of Klein player/loopist Bill Frisell, and contact info where you can actually get one, (rather than for the guy who originally designed it, but doesn't have anything to do with the current design or production of said instruments). As you can probably guess from the URL above, Kim has been kind enough to host the site until Lorenzo can get his own domain together. I did the bulk of the site design, so you can yell at me if you don't like it (read, don't harass Kim about it) and it will be updated with more info, other profiles soon. Watch for a piece on Mick Goodrick coming soon. Hopefully, this will cause all debate on the issue to end. Thanks, Jon Durant From ???@??? Fri Jul 03 12:02:20 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id EAA19200; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 04:57:09 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 04:57:09 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <003e01bda65f$30ebb6e0$0d01a8c0@Remote> From: "Steve Lauder" To: Subject: Fw: SCOPE DSP Card Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 09:46:48 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"BPDhx.0.Fd4.oo9dr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/469 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I SENT OFF FOR SOME MORE INFO YESTERDAY REGARDING THE SCOPE SYSTEM (I WAS INTERESTED IN THE SEPERATE CONTROLLER METHOD UNTIL I SAW THE PRICE!). HERE'S WHAT THEY SAID: Hi Steve, Thanks for your interest in CreamWare's SCOPE DSP Platform! SCOPE will be shipping for the PC in October, for the Mac in Nov/Dec. MSRP - $6500US for the complete hardware and software (incl. the development tools that allow you to create your own SCOPE "devices" - synths, effects processors, & mixers, as well as the ability to fully customize the user interface for any SCOPE device). CreamWare's control surface for SCOPE features a 3-octave keyboard, a number of user configurable buttons and knobs which can be tied to SCOPE devices for realtime control and automation, as well as a full color LCD touch screen allowing you to control extra modules (in addition to any modules displayed on the host computer). Estimated MSRP - $5000US. SCOPE will also interface with existing midi controllers, so you can customize a controller configuration that best suits your needs. Stay tuned for further news on SCOPE as the release draws nearer. We'll be announcing additional hardware specs and options, as well as the names of the 3rd party developers already working on plug-ins for the platform. If you have any questions in the meantime, feel free to contact us Best Regards, Russell Less CreamWare US Inc. email: russell@creamware.com ph: 604-527-9924 fax: 604-527-9934 PS - SCOPE is a "beast" indeed ;-) Germany has announced that the hardware will be significantly more powerful than initially anticipated, with 2.7 GigaFLOPS onboard even before any DSP expansion is added. This is roughly equivalent to having 10 P300s exclusively for floating point audio processing. For further details see the press release section of our website at www.creamware.com From ???@??? Fri Jul 03 17:34:43 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA19850; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 19:23:24 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 19:23:24 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: TritoneDW@aol.com Message-ID: <3982b153.359d677b@aol.com> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 19:21:30 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Composed Looping with MAX Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 56 Resent-Message-ID: <"-CO1e3.0.gm4.wUMdr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/474 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 98-07-03 18:39:09 EDT, you write: << Hello, I recently met a fellow who's using Opcode's MAX software to create excellent live looping applications. He works in the electroacoustical music genre - i.e. composed music. In his current project, he's programming a "score" for a piece involving a single performer playing bass flute. The "score" involves looping certain parts of the performance (up to seven loop layers) and then pitch-shifting/processing them in various ways. The piece is extremely complex and the parameters are constantly changing. >> Are you by chance talking about Brian Ferneyhough? I know he wrote a piece for bass flute and tape that sounds very similar. Drew From ???@??? Fri Jul 03 17:34:45 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA31909; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 19:52:37 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 19:52:37 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <359D7CE8.70CE6BC4@magelang.com> Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 17:52:56 -0700 From: Jim Coker Reply-To: jcoker@magelang.com Organization: Magelang Institute X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Creamware Scope - computer based looping? References: <199807021838.LAA22725@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4-0hQ1.0.7j7.RwMdr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/475 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com A few notes from a Kyma user: I think the SCOPE platform is pretty interesting, but it is gonna be tough for them to compete w/ Kyma in terms of software features and support. Their SHARC chips are pretty fast, but Motorola has DSP chips that are much faster than those in the current Capybara hardware, and hopefully Symbolic Sound will be upgrading to them pretty soon. Here too, everthing depends on the software's ability to take advantage of the hardware. One last hardware bit: Avoid comparing Mhz to Mhz, or even MIPS to MIPS for DSP chips. Even though a 200Mhz SHARC chip is probably faster than a 66Mhz 56002, their architectures are wildly different. The Motorola chips can do lots of a parallel data moves that dramatically increase their effective speed. Paolo Valladolid wrote: > > Besides switching to faster DSPs, I'd like to see the Kyma offer an > external controller like SCOPE's. The touch-sensitive screen and 20 knobs > together form a much more comfortable,immediate interface than just the > standard mouse-and-windows thing. :) Most Kyma users, myself included, seem to use the Peavey PC1600 as a hardware controller. There is a smooth command that can be used to avoid stairstepping of controller values. That same command can also be used to introduce "portamento" of any duration on any command -- great for creating extended transitions of several controllers at once. Doepfer also makes an interesting controller called Regelwerk, w/ a built in sequencer. Then there is the 01V, w/ motorized faders, and a pretty nice mixer too. That controller for SCOPE is *really damn expensive*, hell I could get more than 15 PC1600's for that price. Kyma does support physical modelling synthesis, as well as sampling, granualar, FM, additive, real-time-resynthesis, analog-style subtractive, formant-filters, etc. etc. etc. Looping? Ohhh, yes, a good bit of that.... From ???@??? Fri Jul 03 18:26:25 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id VAA00681; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 21:19:13 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 21:19:13 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Nemoguitt@aol.com Message-ID: <9ad6b13a.359d8297@aol.com> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 21:17:10 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: You have been removed from the list Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"bGkIl2.0.P5.UBOdr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/476 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com WOW-tonite when i went into my trusty E-mail, lo and behold i found 130 posts all dated 7-3-98. all from LD. being the buck-a-roo that i am, i read each and every one. they spanned an area of time about 3 weeks. only a few were re-runs of posts that i did receive and the rest made sense of what had been coming in. i had thought its summer, everybody is outside swimming or fighting forest fires, thus the small number of posts. then i got to the 130th post and it tells me i have been removed from the list. a fine thank-you that!! i was told to go to the aol postmaster person and plead my case or whatever all that gobbely-gook is that follows. help......cast me not into the darkness........i promise at some point to play a plex or a jammer.......my rang is not that possesive!! any insite would be most welcome.......thanks............michael From ???@??? Fri Jul 03 20:36:53 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id XAA23324; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 23:36:58 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 23:36:58 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: KelRey@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 23:35:00 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: Is the new EDP more than just a software update? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 84 Resent-Message-ID: <"69uXH.0.Sd5.kCQdr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/477 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Kim recently posted about the new low-heat power supply. Does any one know how to obtain this or how you would upgrade to it. I have an older EDP and it gets almost to hot to touch if left on for any long period of time. I would really like to be able to upgrade. Thanks in advance, Kelly From ???@??? Fri Jul 03 22:01:32 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id AAA22831; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 00:58:44 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 00:58:44 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: KILLINFO@aol.com Message-ID: <9ad72d9d.359db60e@aol.com> Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 00:56:45 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: Re: Is the new EDP more than just a software update? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 59 Resent-Message-ID: <"gbU-p1.0.hW5.UPRdr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/478 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 7/3/98 7:36:48 PM, somebody wrote to the list: > Kim recently posted about the new low-heat power supply. Does any one know > how to obtain this or how you would upgrade to it. I have an older EDP and it > gets almost to hot to touch if left on for any long period of time. I would really > like to be able to upgrade. Ditto: my EDPs get a little warm too after playing for just a couple of hours (especially during the summer months) and begin to act a bit strange. If there's a solution to this problem I'd like to hear more about it. BTW--I already have plenty of empty space around the units themselves in the rack. I don't seem to have this problem in the dead of winter (or if I REALLY crank the air conditioning up at other times). T.Killian From ???@??? Sat Jul 04 13:44:52 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id FAA00083; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 05:48:49 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 05:48:49 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: fred@fredmarshall.com Message-ID: <359DFA52.17CD@fredmarshall.com> Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 02:48:15 -0700 Reply-To: fred@fredmarshall.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: [2998] Major Lapel Decals... >>> Loop-Philes INDEED! References: <199806301139_MC2-51AB-5A81@compuserve.com> <359AA700.1100D90F@csi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"EIAsh.0.tw7.yeVdr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/479 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com - I heard that the Stanford Research Institute (SRI) has built a SUPER-COLLUDER ! ! ! - I think that they plan to use it to drain enormous quantities of pasta. mmm ------------------------- Cummings wrote: > > I didn't believe it meself but colluder is indeed a word ... > :-) > > Rob > > > > > One who is in collusion... All right all you lit majors! Is this a > > real word, or am I improvising again? 8-> > > > > -Miko > > > > > >> miko- what the heck is a colluder?...........michale From ???@??? Sat Jul 04 13:45:34 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA24335; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 13:41:34 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 13:41:34 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Dpcoffin@aol.com Message-ID: <8f96cb5.359e68b7@aol.com> Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 13:39:02 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: [2998] Major Lapel Decals... >>> Loop-Philes INDEED! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 84 Resent-Message-ID: <"v3tF11.0.Es5.Iacdr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/480 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >- I heard that the Stanford Research Institute (SRI) has built a >SUPER-COLLUDER ! ! ! > >- I think that they plan to use it to drain enormous quantities of >pasta. You're confusing this with the collusion between the Cullinary Arts Institute and Cook County which resulted in the Colossal Colander. From ???@??? Sat Jul 04 13:45:35 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA27952; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 13:50:59 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 13:50:59 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Dpcoffin@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 13:49:01 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Volume pedals... Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 84 Resent-Message-ID: <"8p_ey.0.gm6.Hjcdr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/481 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Any of you folks know of a LINEAR TAPER volume pedal? In fact, is there a FAQ somewhere on the whole topic of Volume and CV pedals? Appreciate any discussion, experiences, etc... Thanks! David Coffin From ???@??? Mon Jul 06 01:18:42 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id VAA23861; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 21:52:35 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 21:52:35 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 20:17:52 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: Looper Levin Resent-Message-ID: <"yn1SR.0.ho5.2t2er"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/484 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hey Loop Heads, One of us got a break this past weekend. That other stick player also named Levin, namely our very own Adam Levin. The following review was in the weekend section of the Washington Post. ANEKDOTEN: "Live"; Jasrac THE DARK AETHER PROJECT: "The Dark Aether Project"; DAP By Mark Jenkins Friday, July 3, 1998; Page N22 Many contemporary offspring of the '70s prog-rock movement have moved in the direction of jazz or electronica, but Anekdoten keeps the faith. The four five-to-eight-minute pieces on the Swedish quartet's "Live" have their abstract and even ambient moments, but they also feature vocals, classically derived embellishments and driving hard-rock passages, all characteristics of prog's glory days. It's hardly surprising to learn that the band's repertoire includes "Larks' Tongues in Aspic II," which dates from King Crimson's first reign. Niklas Berg is credited with clarinet, organ and mellotron, but it's his guitar that dominates such tracks as "Nucleus" and "Karelia," which recall the days when prog and metal were cousins. "A Way of Life" is more delicate, highlighting Anna Sofi Dahlberg's cello at first, but Berg's guitar eventually comes to the fore. These pieces aren't songs exactly, but their more assertive passages wouldn't surprise Led Zeppelin fans. The Dark Aether Project also recalls King Crimson, but sounds more like the stripped-down '80s edition of that band. This Baltimore trio's self-titled, seven-track disc features only guitar, drums and "stick," although guest vocalist Jason Wilson appears on three tracks, including a slightly melodramatic acoustic-guitar ballad, "Bitter Harvest." Guitarist Yaman Aksu has a jaunty, percussive style that recalls Crimson's Robert Fripp; his playing gives such pieces as the aptly titled "Drive Time" an easygoing propulsion. Both appearing Thursday at Phantasmagoria. To hear a free Sound Bite from Anekdoten, call Post-Haste at 202/334-9000 and press 8122. For a Sound Bite from the Dark Aether Project, press 8123. (Prince William residents, call 690-4110.) Đ Copyright 1998 The Washington Post Company Now Available: FingerPaint Primary Colors: BLUE A guitar-synth looping duo of dark illbience and dreamy ambience. Shockwave audio featuring our newest release Primary Colors:Blue www.fingerpaint.net From ???@??? Mon Jul 06 01:18:46 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id WAA25972; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 22:10:48 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 22:10:48 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <19980706020918.19029.rocketmail@send1b.yahoomail.com> Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 19:09:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Bret Subject: Re: Is the new EDP more than just a software update? To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"SHmXd.0.8J6.283er"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/485 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com The change in the power supply has to do with the voltage regulators on the +5v section of the power supply (+5v for the digital section). Two 7805 voltage regulators (U40 and U28) are removed from the EDP, along with the heat sink that they are mounted on. The new regulator circuit replaces the 2 previous ones. The new circuit is put in the location of one of the previous regulators, and a jumper must be added to connect between pin 3 of the U40 and U28 locations (+5v output). One regulator replaces two, so the traces from the output of the (previous) two must be paralleled. It does run much cooler. I contacted Mike Ayers at Gibson, and he sent the part out pronto. Thanks Mike! He can be reached at cayers@gibson.com I would Not suggest you attempt this modification yourself unless you are completely comfortable with working on printed circuit board assemblies, that contain static sensitive components. You will have to figure out the proper orientation of the new circuit, and locate pin 3 (for the jumper) on your own (the part doesn't come with a rework procedure or diagram). Kim helped me answer some questions I had when I changed mine (thanks again, Kim). If you have the proper skills and tools, it is not difficult to dissasemble the EDP, desolder the old components, install the new component, and add a jumper wire. If you are not experienced with this type of work, leave it to Oberheim, or a good technician. Making a mistake while doing this rework could be destructive to the EDP. I will be glad to answer questions regarding this rework, but cannot _teach_ you how to do this via Email. bret ---KILLINFO@aol.com wrote: > > Kim recently posted about the new low-heat power supply. Does any one know how to obtain this or how you would upgrade to it. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From ???@??? Mon Jul 06 10:09:39 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id JAA18860; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 09:36:14 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 09:36:14 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Dino Cattaneo" To: Subject: RE: Is the new EDP more than just a software update? Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 03:34:53 -0500 Message-Id: <98Jul6.083305cdt.26882@gateway.gibson.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <19980706020918.19029.rocketmail@send1b.yahoomail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"d1CmX3.0.mZ4.YADer"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/486 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Thank you Bret for the clear explanation. I just wanted to let you knwo that Mike can also be reached on our toll free line at 1-877-OBERHEIM Dino -----Original Message----- From: Bret [mailto:echoplex@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, July 06, 1998 2:09 AM To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Is the new EDP more than just a software update? The change in the power supply has to do with the voltage regulators on the +5v section of the power supply (+5v for the digital section). Two 7805 voltage regulators (U40 and U28) are removed from the EDP, along with the heat sink that they are mounted on. The new regulator circuit replaces the 2 previous ones. The new circuit is put in the location of one of the previous regulators, and a jumper must be added to connect between pin 3 of the U40 and U28 locations (+5v output). One regulator replaces two, so the traces from the output of the (previous) two must be paralleled. It does run much cooler. I contacted Mike Ayers at Gibson, and he sent the part out pronto. Thanks Mike! He can be reached at cayers@gibson.com I would Not suggest you attempt this modification yourself unless you are completely comfortable with working on printed circuit board assemblies, that contain static sensitive components. You will have to figure out the proper orientation of the new circuit, and locate pin 3 (for the jumper) on your own (the part doesn't come with a rework procedure or diagram). Kim helped me answer some questions I had when I changed mine (thanks again, Kim). If you have the proper skills and tools, it is not difficult to dissasemble the EDP, desolder the old components, install the new component, and add a jumper wire. If you are not experienced with this type of work, leave it to Oberheim, or a good technician. Making a mistake while doing this rework could be destructive to the EDP. I will be glad to answer questions regarding this rework, but cannot _teach_ you how to do this via Email. bret ---KILLINFO@aol.com wrote: > > Kim recently posted about the new low-heat power supply. Does any one know how to obtain this or how you would upgrade to it. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From ???@??? Mon Jul 06 10:09:47 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id KAA27387; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 10:35:21 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 10:35:21 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980706143235.006f26dc@mail.dada.it> X-Sender: cavallo@mail.dada.it X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 16:32:35 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Leonardo Cavallo Subject: ROPE's "rope hotel" Resent-Message-ID: <"6IgPB2.0.1f6.42Eer"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/487 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Just a few lines to say that the man who wrote LD Looping percussion pages (http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tips/percloop/percloop.html) not only can explain us how to groove with our little loop devices, but he can play the hell out from its kit too. I've just found the time to listen to Rob Cummings CD with his band ROPE (Rob, sorry for the delay....) and it was a really interesting experience. Without doubt Rope music center is the Rob's groovy, multilayered percussion work. Then came all the rest: ultrasolid bass playing, synth lines, ambient soundscapes and sounds processing/filtering. The result is a personal and higly enjoyable rendition of a lot of styles: from proto dub to modern Rota-esque melodies (the second track really kills me!!!) to new electronica thinks and funk oriented grooves. the perception above all is that there's a lot of playing freedom involved: and this open and relaxed feeling inevitably comes out from Rope music as one of their more interesting strenght. Check it out! (r_t_cummings@csi.com) ciao leo PS. Rob, why don't you share with us composition techniques involved in ROPE music? looping is evident but how do you organize thing to came with structured songs like yours? From ???@??? Mon Jul 06 23:01:33 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id XAA23993 for kflint@annihilist.com; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 23:54:33 -0400 Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 23:54:33 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-From_: Nemoguitt@aol.com Mon Jul 6 23:54:28 1998 Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) with ESMTP id XAA23958 for ; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 23:54:28 -0400 From: Nemoguitt@aol.com Received: from Nemoguitt@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv14_b1.1) id CTIKa19317 for ; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 23:53:31 +2000 (EDT) Message-ID: Old-Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 23:53:31 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: (no subject) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 X-Diagnostic: undecipherable, help sent X-Envelope-To: Loopers-Delight test From ???@??? Tue Jul 07 23:14:23 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id WAA32472; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 22:27:12 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 22:27:12 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 20:52:24 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: RE: y'all still out there Resent-Message-ID: <"0kdNM3.0.mu7.JZjer"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/499 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >I apparently missed the first step in this question . . . > >what was it? > > >> >any jazz looping going on? I missed it also...is our server eating messages again... Patrick Now Available: FingerPaint Primary Colors: BLUE A guitar-synth looping duo of dark illbience and dreamy ambience. Shockwave audio featuring our newest release Primary Colors:Blue www.fingerpaint.net From ???@??? Tue Jul 07 23:13:58 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA04968; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 19:06:39 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 19:06:39 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: mchriste@panther.middlebury.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 19:03:55 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: murkie Subject: Re: y'all still out there Resent-Message-ID: <"Eyr8n3.0.-A1.Ldger"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/494 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >any jazz looping going on? i will admit up front that i am little more than a hack when it comes to traditional jazz. that said, the first sessions i played using my (then) new jamman a couple of years ago was as part of a trio with two of the most fantastic jazz musicians i've ever heard. i was doing guitar weirdness/loopage, there was a sax player named Matt Roy and a pianist named Dylan Bolles. we have several hours of tape of us playing out (sometimes WAY out) that will be cut up and used on various things in the future. m M a r k C h r i s t e n s e n Cramped Quarters Studio / Jasperpottamus Music i n t e r n e t : murkie@middlebury.edu http://www.middlebury.edu/~mchriste/murkie.html From ???@??? Tue Jul 07 23:14:01 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA06358; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 19:11:31 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 19:11:31 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD0462B03@migarexch01.maritz.com> From: "Liebig, Steuart A." To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: y'all still out there Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 18:10:08 -0500 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Resent-Message-ID: <"z6StB3.0.5X1.zhger"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/495 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I apparently missed the first step in this question . . . what was it? > >any jazz looping going on? > > From ???@??? Tue Jul 07 23:14:31 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id XAA08390; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 23:33:00 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 23:33:00 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Dpcoffin@aol.com Message-ID: <72d97a7c.35a2e812@aol.com> Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 23:31:29 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Gear talk...upcoming cheap multi-loop option Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 84 Resent-Message-ID: <"tCoWv1.0.512.6Xker"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/500 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I've been hankering to get my hands on that not-shipping-yet DOD 8-sec. stomp box (fx98), like many of you, I suspect.... As I sit here waiting my gaze falls upon the Boss LS-2 Line Selector that I use to switch between various guitar paths. (A very flexible little gadjet...) Anyway, it occured to me that with two 98's and a LS-2, you'd have two 8-sec loops you could switch between or mix for about $300 (assuming the DOD is actually only $99 as the catalogs suggest it will be). Seems like there must be some clever way to wrestle a stereo looper out of two of 'em, as well. Any thoughts on precision triggering two stompers? dpc From ???@??? Tue Jul 07 23:14:34 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id BAA19939; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 01:07:31 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 01:07:31 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35A30027.7E22@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 22:14:16 -0700 From: scott kungha drengsen X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: anyone want to swap recordings? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"HfZvi2.0.tq4.evler"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/501 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I'm very interested in hearing the work of other loopist's. If anyone would like to trade CD's or recorded material just e-mail me There are some examples of my work on my page. scott- http://www.basscapes.com From ???@??? Wed Jul 08 02:05:55 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id DAA30407; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 03:23:55 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 03:23:55 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: From: Jamie Lack To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: RE: Gear talk...upcoming cheap multi-loop option Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 17:28:42 +1000 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"ILL3Y2.0.NN7.Uvner"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/502 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I had this sort of an idea a while ago (just quietly) I was going to use 5 zoom 4 sec pedals, with a home made switcher. In the end I figured that it was clearly not worth it. The 5 zoom pedals would have been Aus $300 ea, so that is $1500 Aus. The switcher would have been another hundred or so. Compare that setup to a fully tanked echoplex (198 sec of loop time) , with a fully integrated foot controller. Even in Australia, at $2800 the echoplex is still a much better deal. I can import the Echoplex (plus foot controller) myself for Aus $1700 (US $715)through bananas at large, so that makes the "cheap" option less attractive. All of these little toys soon add up. I would really encourage anyone thinking about these cheap loop devices to just save your dosh and buy an echoplex. I am sure the added functionality of the echoplex alone would be worth many cheapy boxes. Jamie Lack jlack@auran.com > >I've been hankering to get my hands on that not-shipping-yet > >DOD 8-sec. stomp > >box (fx98), like many of you, I suspect.... > >As I sit here waiting my gaze falls upon the Boss LS-2 Line > >Selector that I > >use to switch between various guitar paths. (A very flexible little > >gadjet...) Anyway, it occured to me that with two 98's and a > >LS-2, you'd have > >two 8-sec loops you could switch between or mix for about > >$300 (assuming the > >DOD is actually only $99 as the catalogs suggest it will > >be). Seems like there > >must be some clever way to wrestle a stereo looper out of > >two of 'em, as well. > >Any thoughts on precision triggering two stompers? > >dpc > > From ???@??? Wed Jul 08 10:49:57 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id JAA24703; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 09:11:43 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 09:11:43 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 09:09:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Adam Levin X-Sender: alevin@ari.ari.net To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Anekdoten/Dark Aether Project in DC area tomorrow Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"xmV-K.0.M_5.X_ser"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/504 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Come on out to see Sweden's Anekdoten in the final performance of their 1998 North American summer tour. They will be joined by The Dark Aether Project for a special night of music starting PROMPTLY at 8:00pm on Thursday, July 9th at Phantasmagoria located at 11319 Elkin St in Wheaton, MD just outside of Washington DC. This will be an early show, so if you're worried about getting to work the next day or making it back to the Metro before it closes down, don't. The show will be over well before 11pm. Admission is $10 at the door. All ages are welcome. For more information about the bands, see: Anekdoten Web Site: http://home2.swipnet.se/~w-25753/anekdoten/ The Dark Aether Project Web Site: http://www.darkaether.net/ In conjunction with their review of each band's recent releases in Friday, July 3rd's paper, The Washington Post has put up sound-bites from each band on their "Post-Haste" phone information service. Dial 202-334-900 and then press: 8122 for Anekdoten samples 8123 for Dark Aether Project samples Directions: Take DC Beltway (495) toward Silver Spring. Exit at Rt 97 (Georgia Ave) North towards Wheaton Go 2-3 miles on Georgia, keeping to the right Turn right on University Blvd (after Safeway) Take first right onto Elkin. Phantasmagoria is on the left Or you can take the Metro to the Wheaton station which is a mere two blocks away. -Adam --- "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue, out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one becomes a Hearer." - Chandrakirti T h e D a r k A e t h e r P r o j e c t http://www.darkaether.net/ From ???@??? Wed Jul 08 10:49:58 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id JAA27686; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 09:32:18 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 09:32:18 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199807081331.PAA22133@mb05.swip.net> From: "Mattias Ribbing" To: Subject: SV: Gear talk...(Import warning) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 15:20:56 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"XQtw83.0.aj6.uIter"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/506 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hello all, Well, I don't know about other peoples experiences with importing stuff (like the echoplex) from the US. But I sure ended up with a FAT bill, that I hadn't counted on. The shipping was going to cost me about US$180 (UPS). That's a whole lot of money, so I thought that that would include just about everything, as far as the shipping went. After enjoying my echoplex for about a mounth, I got another bill from UPS. US$290!!! (calculated from Swedish money) Import taxes. I guess I should have done some researching on these thing before making the purchase. So Jamie, look these thing up first. Have the same things happened to you other europeans who got your echoplexes from the states? Or is it just the swedish government who are greedy? Woehni, you are norweigan, aren't you? Did you have to pay this much tax? Loop on, Mattias ---------- > FrŒn: Jamie Lack > Till: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > €mne: RE: Gear talk...upcoming cheap multi-loop option > Datum: den 8 juli 1998 09:28 > > I can import the Echoplex (plus foot controller) myself for Aus $1700 > (US $715)through bananas at large, so that makes the "cheap" option less > attractive. > > Jamie Lack > jlack@auran.com From ???@??? Wed Jul 08 10:50:00 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id KAA01839; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 10:29:30 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 10:29:30 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980708161530.1baf37c2@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> X-Sender: pycraft@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 16:15:30 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: "Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D." Subject: Straight, no looper. In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"x4rKs1.0.0Q.U8uer"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/507 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Kim desperately prompted: >any jazz looping going on? that was one of the things that got me into >this, great way to practice improvising, looping a set of chord changes you >want to work on....I'm sure it can be taken a lot further than that, >though.... I've done that in the past, certainly; however, I have yet to get the courage to take Jazz head-on, as it were. I'd love to be able to play Jazz, but it all seems so *complicated*! It's as if I need to spend several years of intensive learning to be competent enough to play with other musicians; I just don't have time for that, and besides it seems so *serious*, far more that the kind of stuff I can play that doesn't seem to requite the kind of commitment usually associated with Trappist monks (rather than Thelonious monks). So, am I completely wrong on this? Can anyone resolve the facts that (a) Jazz is horrendously complicated with (b) they all sound like a bunch o' guys out to have a laugh, and not take anything seriously? (I suppose this really applies mostly to swing/early bop - from the 50's onwards Jazz musicians often sound like they take themselves far too seriously.....!*) Michael *Fadoom! Dr. Michael P. Hughes, University of Glasgow, Glasgow, UK G12 8QQ --------------------------------------------------------------- "Jumping through hyperspace isn't like Dustin Hoffman, boy!" --------------------------------------------------------------- www.elec.gla.ac.uk/~pycraft m.hughes@elec.gla.ac.uk From ???@??? Fri Jul 10 01:55:11 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id UAA03767; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 20:31:30 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 20:31:30 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Nemoguitt@aol.com Message-ID: <92d04f77.35a56070@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 20:29:35 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: test Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"SDkWO1.0.wt.h2Mfr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/521 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com test From ???@??? Fri Jul 10 01:55:35 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id BAA00336; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 01:09:25 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 01:09:25 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: ENAT21213@aol.com Message-ID: <23523fca.35a5a197@aol.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 01:07:33 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: LIVE LOOPERS ON THE WEB Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"X3dco3.0.81.B7Qfr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/522 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hello all, My band electric bird noise (cinematic loop and layered instrumental rock) is playing transmissions festival in chapel hill n.c. tonight (Friday) 7/10/98. The festival will be aired over the net. The address is http://transmissions.webslingerz.com We will be performing at 7:00pm lotsa lotsa looping going on. brian From ???@??? Sat Jul 11 00:38:55 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA23999 for kflint@annihilist.com; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 19:51:49 -0400 Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 19:51:49 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-From_: Adrathe@aol.com Fri Jul 10 19:51:18 1998 Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA23954 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 19:51:18 -0400 From: Adrathe@aol.com Received: from Adrathe@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv14_b1.1) id CPPUa26052 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 19:50:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <81fb8edd.35a6a8be@aol.com> Old-Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 19:50:20 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Unknown Music Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part0_900114621_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 84 X-Diagnostic: Submission size exceeds 524288 bytes X-Envelope-To: Loopers-Delight Content-ID: <0_900114621@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII 10 years ago I recorded a long piece of modern music off of a radio program.Unfortunately,it was never identified.It is ambient,loopish and electro-acoustical sounding.I have been trying to identify this piece of music for several years now,through friends and colleagues.You'll hear it's pretty interesting and beautiful sounding.I am emailing it to people I think would both enjoy hearing it and,more importantly,identify it and/or expose it to someone else who might be able to identify it. I have attached it in AIFF form(Mac).To save space,this is a 43 second excerpt taken near the beginning of the piece,although it doesn't really change much over the 9 minute duration of the composition.Email me if you want the complete 9 minute version and I can email it to you Good Luck, Adrathe@aol.com Content-ID: <0_900114621@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: multipart/appledouble; name="UnknownMusic"; boundary="ad_900114621_boundary"; X-Mac-Creator="c3534673"; X-Mac-Type="4150504c" Attachment converted: shards o' data:UnknownMusic 1 (eApp/CSOm) (000013B1) From ???@??? Sat Jul 11 00:45:21 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id AAA15675; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 00:15:35 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 00:15:35 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35A6DCBA.E8247205@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 20:32:17 -0700 From: Bill Moyer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: tes References: <23523fca.35a5a197@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4mx-E.0.go3.wQkfr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/523 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com testing, testing, why all the quiet all of a sudden? From ???@??? Sat Jul 11 15:58:30 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id FAA23445; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 05:36:48 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 05:36:48 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <19980711093523.20016.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [206.173.239.232] From: "eric potter" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: tes - I hear you! Looking for Stereo Analog delay Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 02:35:21 PDT Resent-Message-ID: <"20tt_3.0.xf5.38pfr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/525 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com It is quiet. But I'll go on... Can anyone recommend a good analog delay with stereo outs? Going for that disintegrating decay sound. My buddy as a cheap old Arion pedal like that, but he won't give it up, and it's too cheap to find in most decent places! -eric p. >Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 20:32:17 -0700 >From: Bill Moyer >To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >Subject: tes >Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > >testing, testing, why all the quiet >all of a sudden? > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Sat Jul 11 15:58:36 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id JAA29530; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 09:00:48 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 09:00:48 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 08:59:47 -0400 (EDT) From: David Talento X-Sender: legion@unix01 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Looking for Stereo Analog delay In-Reply-To: <19980711093523.20016.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"sudqf.0.487.F7sfr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/526 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com On Sat, 11 Jul 1998, eric potter wrote: > Can anyone recommend a good analog delay with stereo outs? Going for > that disintegrating decay sound. My buddy as a cheap old Arion pedal > like that, but he won't give it up, and it's too cheap to find in most > decent places! Hmm I don't know of *any* analog dealy that has stereo out. They usually have a wet/mix and dry output on two different 1/4" jacks but it's not stereo. If the above is what you mean then there are plenty. The ibanez AD48, MXR analog delay, Boss DM2 (i believe that's the analog one), or in rack mount the multivox Srping reverb/analog delay, Ibanez AD202, AD100m or UE405 (Has the AD48 in it) all have a separate wet and dry outs. If you don't want to go vintage check out the DOD FX96 Echo FX which is basically an analog delay with a limited lowpass filter to make the sound more muddy and simulate the old tape echos like the Roland REx01 Space echos or an echoplex. Ibanez also makes the AD99 analog delay new although IMO it's not nearly and wild or fun as the older ones. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- HELP WANTED PRODUCTIONS - Http://www.voicenet.com/~legion "Bringing you the best in Organic Electronic music since we started..." Home of the Unusual Instrument and Recording Gallery with pictures and info of Tube recorders, Omnichords, weird guitars, Casios, and more. Visit it at: Http://www.voicenet.com/~legion/weird.htm From ???@??? Sat Jul 11 15:58:48 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAB16731; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 11:15:15 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 11:15:15 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: TritoneDW@aol.com Message-ID: <1336d450.35a78120@aol.com> Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 11:13:35 EDT To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Klein Electric Questions--no loop content Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 56 Resent-Message-ID: <"ASDnM2.0.l_3.B5ufr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/528 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Since there are so many Klein owners on this list, and since the folks at Klein aren't answering my e-mail (no doubt because of the NAMM show), I thought I would ask if anyone knows how open they are to doing custom work. Specifically, i want a Klein with a wider, fatter neck, with wider string spacing, more like a classical guitar neck. I know they've done weird custom stuff like Hedges' harp guitar, but will they do that kind of thing for those of us who aren't famous? If we're not famous, will it cost $10,000? Any info is appreciated. Thanks. Drew W. From ???@??? Sat Jul 11 16:55:19 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA19899; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 19:24:38 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 19:24:38 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <1336d450.35a78120@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 16:22:01 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Klein Electric Questions--no loop content Resent-Message-ID: <"Rk7A33.0.pn4.3G_fr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/531 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 8:13 AM -0700 7/11/98, TritoneDW@aol.com wrote: >Since there are so many Klein owners on this list, and since the folks at >Klein aren't answering my e-mail (no doubt because of the NAMM show), most likely....make sure you're using the right email address: klein@genesisnetwork.net. Right now they would be at NAMM though. If you could get to Nashville by tomorrow, you could discuss with them in person. :-) It's probably better to just call them directly and talk about it when they get back...Lorenzo is a very friendly guy. The number is: (925) 516-9338 >thought I would ask if anyone knows how open they are to doing custom work. >Specifically, i want a Klein with a wider, fatter neck, with wider string >spacing, more like a classical guitar neck. > >I know they've done weird custom stuff like Hedges' harp guitar, but will they >do that kind of thing for those of us who aren't famous? If we're not famous, >will it cost $10,000? They are very willing to do customizations. I had a lot of custom stuff done on mine. In fact, probably every Klein electric ends up being a custom guitar to some extent. It's a very personalized sort of thing, which is quite a treat for buying an electric guitar. I don't know about wider string spacing, since that might take modifying the steinberger bridges. If anybody could do that though, it would be Lorenzo. Talk to him and find out. When I was up there recently, I was playing an experimental guitar where he had customized a Steinberger S-trem bridge to have piezo pickups built into the bridge saddles. I think he worked with RMC on that one...it sounded great. you don't have to be famous to get special goodies, but it might cost extra. Much less than $10,000 though! Considering the quality of work you get, Klein Electrics seem pretty cheap to me. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sat Jul 11 16:55:24 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA23189; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 19:33:25 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 19:33:25 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <35A6DCBA.E8247205@earthlink.net> References: <23523fca.35a5a197@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 16:30:56 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: tes Resent-Message-ID: <"3G8yZ.0.-b5.IO_fr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/532 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >testing, testing, why all the quiet >all of a sudden? hopefully everyone's taken their gear to the park to loop in the sunshine.... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sat Jul 11 16:55:34 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA25986; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 19:40:05 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 19:40:05 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35A7F780.F515AF3@superonline.com> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 02:38:40 +0300 From: yalay@superonline.com (Mahmut Yalay) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: looking for jamman Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"oXCJI3.0.LE6.OU_fr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/533 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hi, I need to buy a jamman and I live in Istanbul. Could anybody offer any help? yalay@superonline.com From ???@??? Sat Jul 11 20:14:55 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id WAA01206; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 22:48:13 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 22:48:13 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <359B9F5A.62F6@mdbs.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 19:45:27 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: EDP question Resent-Message-ID: <"m77wx1.0.1D.sE2gr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/534 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com this is sort of old, sorry. I need a secretary.... comment below: At 7:55 AM -0700 7/2/98, Dennis W. Leas wrote: >Hello, All! > >I'm seeing some unexplained behaviour from my two EDPs and I'm hoping >that someone can explain it (Kim?). I'll try to describe the set-up as >clearly as possible. > >EDP 1 (Master) audio in <------- (from board) > sync: OUT audio out -------> (to board) > 8ths/beat: 1 MIDI out ----+ > SwitchQuant: CYC | > MoreLoops: 3L | > | > | >EDP 2 (Slave) MIDI in -----+ > sync: IN audio in <------- (from board) > 8ths/beat: 1 audio out -------> (to board) > SwitchQuant: CYC > MoreLoops: 3L > >I record a loop in EDP 1 and MULTIPLY it into 8 cycles; the display >shows > >EDP 1:LOOP: 1 > LOOPTIME: 3.4 > MULTIPLE: (cycles from 1 through 8) > >I record a loop in EDP 2 and MULTIPLY it into 2 cycles; the display >shows: > >EDP 2:LOOP: 1 > LOOPTIME: 13.8 > MULTIPLE: (cycles from 1 to 2) > >On EDP 2, I want to do a NEXT LOOP/MULTIPLE type of loop copy. >Unfortunately, EDP 2 does not enter a lame duck period; it switches to >LOOP 2 immediately when NEXT LOOP is hit. Interestingly, if I change >EDP 2 to sync: OFF, then it works as expected (of course, the units are >no longer synched). In other words, EDP 2 seems to ignore >SwitchQuant=CYC when Sync=IN. > >So, how do I do a NEXT LOOP/MULTIPLY loop copy on a slave unit? It has to do with the 8ths/beat setting you have on EDP 2. You'll probably want to set it to a higher value, something that is more related to the loop time you are recording on there anyway. When midi clock is coming in, the Echoplex uses that clock to determine quantizing triggers for loop switching. The 8ths/beat setting determines the interval of clocks that go by for each quantizing event. When you have 8ths/beat set to 1 on EDP 2, it will quantize to each 1/8 note from the tempo set by EDP 1. When there is no midi clock coming in, it generates the quantize event for itself at the end of each cycle. So in this case, you actually are going into the waiting period, just not for very long. As soon as the next 1/8 note point comes by, it will switch. If you set 8ths/beat on EDP2 to 8 or 16, you will have a much longer waiting period. Another way to look at this is that The echoplex is determining it's cycle length from the midi clock and the 8ths/beat setting. So with 8ths/beat = 1 it is using one 8th note for its cycle time. When you go to record a loop on that echoplex, it will happily let you make that loop as long as you like, but from it's point of view the loop will already consist of many cycles when you tap record to end the loop. For example, say the midi clock determines that an 8th note is .25 seconds long (meaning bpm=120). You tap record to start a loop, and it begins recording at the next 8th note. You tap record again to end it at 2.0 seconds. From the echoplex's point of view, this loop is actually 8 cycles long, with each cycle being .25 seconds long. If you had instead set 8ths/beat = 8, the 2.0 second loop would be one cycle long, and might do more what you expect here. hope this helps, kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sat Jul 11 23:14:33 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id BAA19961; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 01:02:49 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 01:02:49 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199807120501.OAA03088@pop1.osk.3web.ne.jp> X-Mailer: Macintosh Eudora Pro Version 3.1.1-J In-Reply-To: <35A7F780.F515AF3@superonline.com> Disposition-Notification-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 13:43:38 +0900 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Sunao Inami Subject: Japanese loopers? Resent-Message-ID: <"OysRt1.0.0m4.3D4gr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/535 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hi, I just make a plan live gig "Looper's Delight-J". http://www.threeweb.ad.jp/~cave/liveinformation.html Date: 22th Sept. '98. Place: Barton Hall Nishinomiya City,Hyogo,Japan http://member.nifty.ne.jp/BartonHall/ I want to participate in this gig around the Japan(or World :) ). if you have interest plaese mail me. Now, looper of Kobe,Osaka and Kyoto are participation in this gig. We want to wired loppers in the world :) Regards Sunao Inami E-mail cave@osk.3web.ne.jp URL"cave home" http://www.threeweb.ad.jp/~cave/ tel&fax "CAVE Studio" +81 794 89 5025 Hyogo,Japan tel&fax "Private" +81 794 89 5015 Hyogo,Japan snail mail address 316 Ohshima Kuchiyokawa Miki City Hyogo Japan 6730755 From ???@??? Sun Jul 12 12:52:42 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id FAA25689; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 05:42:55 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 05:42:55 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <19980712094141.2114.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [206.173.239.138] From: "eric potter" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Looking for Stereo Analog delay Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 02:41:40 PDT Resent-Message-ID: <"KzPrB.0.TF6.yJ8gr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/536 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > >Hmm I don't know of *any* analog dealy that has stereo out. They usually >have a wet/mix and dry output on two different 1/4" jacks but it's not >stereo. Actually the crusty old ARION analog delay I mentioned has stereo outs. It has really lame bypass, but I'd still pick one up if I could find one. Thanks for your recommendations - I'll check them out as I encounter them. I'm imagining a stereo version of the DOD concept with a 3pdt switch and LED. Is that too much to ask? Actually I lobbied Mike Fuller for such a product, but he's turned off by analog's 300ms max delay. Or how about a longer digital delay that decays down to like 2 bits or something, crappifying the sound, sorta like the EH 16 second box. -eric ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Sun Jul 12 12:53:01 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA13127; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 11:13:43 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 11:13:43 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 11:12:50 -0400 (EDT) From: David Talento X-Sender: legion@unix01 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Looking for Stereo Analog delay In-Reply-To: <19980712094141.2114.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"-5Qds.0.YA3.y9Dgr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/537 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com On Sun, 12 Jul 1998, eric potter wrote: > >Hmm I don't know of *any* analog dealy that has stereo out. They > > Actually the crusty old ARION analog delay I mentioned has stereo outs. snip! > Fuller for such a product, but he's turned off by analog's 300ms max > delay. Or how about a longer digital delay that decays down to like 2 > bits or something, crappifying the sound, sorta like the EH 16 second The DOD FX96 (echo FX) has a max delay time of 800MS. FWIW the controls are four knobs: dry/wet mix, delay time, regeration, and tape quialty which is basically a lowpass filter. this does not operate as any analog delay I've used before and the tape quality knob seems to affect the regeration quit a bit as well so you need to practice with it a bit to get the effect you are looking for. A freind of mine with an echoplex swears this can mimic the sound perfectly except that the 800MS is much shorter than any standard tape loop. I think the problem is analog echos don't allow long decay times whereas digital echos sound s bit too clean for most people's tastes. While not perfect I'd say the FX96 might do the trick but strongly advise anyone to try it first to see if it's what you want. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- HELP WANTED PRODUCTIONS - Http://www.voicenet.com/~legion "Bringing you the best in Organic Electronic music since we started..." Home of the Unusual Instrument and Recording Gallery with pictures and info of Tube recorders, Omnichords, weird guitars, Casios, and more. Visit it at: Http://www.voicenet.com/~legion/weird.htm From ???@??? Sun Jul 12 12:53:06 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA15653; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 11:34:44 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 11:34:44 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <19980712153331.15134.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [207.242.12.150] From: "Dennis Coggia" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: That's, loopin', not, loppin', -BTW Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 08:33:31 PDT Resent-Message-ID: <"K6kkA.0.yo3.oTDgr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/539 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com That address is to his label also. Send him a tape. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Sun Jul 12 12:53:13 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA25682; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 13:17:01 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 13:17:01 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: dmgraph@mail.bway.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <19980712094141.2114.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 13:16:51 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: David Myers Subject: Re: Looking for Stereo Analog delay Resent-Message-ID: <"JbHJQ.0.0F6.gzEgr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/540 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com The Lexicon MPX 100 "Delay, Echo" programs allow you to select either "Delays" or "Echoes", by which they mean either digitally clean or warmed-up (filtered, I assume) repeats. Of course it's not true analog, but I find it to be very effective. Also, at about $220 you get lots, lots more than delays.... David Myers >On Sun, 12 Jul 1998, eric potter wrote: > >> >Hmm I don't know of *any* analog dealy that has stereo out. They >> >> Actually the crusty old ARION analog delay I mentioned has stereo outs. >snip! >> Fuller for such a product, but he's turned off by analog's 300ms max >> delay. Or how about a longer digital delay that decays down to like 2 >> bits or something, crappifying the sound, sorta like the EH 16 second > >The DOD FX96 (echo FX) has a max delay time of 800MS. FWIW the controls >are four knobs: dry/wet mix, delay time, regeration, and tape quialty >which is basically a lowpass filter. this does not operate as any analog >delay I've used before and the tape quality knob seems to affect the >regeration quit a bit as well so you need to practice with it a bit to >get the effect you are looking for. A freind of mine with an echoplex >swears this can mimic the sound perfectly except that the 800MS is much >shorter than any standard tape loop. > >I think the problem is analog echos don't allow long decay times whereas >digital echos sound s bit too clean for most people's tastes. While not >perfect I'd say the FX96 might do the trick but strongly advise anyone to >try it first to see if it's what you want. From ???@??? Mon Jul 13 00:33:46 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id CAA19569; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 02:07:02 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 02:07:02 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Javier Miranda V." To: Subject: RE: Looking for Stereo Analog delay Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 23:06:50 -0700 Message-ID: <000001bdae24$6cb1f6e0$431b8ed1@electra> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <19980712094141.2114.qmail@hotmail.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"Gs1oM1.0.fi4.OFQgr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/542 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com That reminds me -- the EH Memory Man had awesome stereo outs, but a very short delay by any comparison. I think it was just 250 ms. It produced the same effect as those "spacious" circuits found on some stereos, or in that Q system of sound out of England. I loved setting it up at the very end of the row of effects pedals, and it would truly rock. I think EH is putting all those boxes out again. Check it out. | -----Original Message----- | From: eric potter [mailto:babycat@hotmail.com] | Sent: Sunday, July 12, 1998 2:42 AM | To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com | Subject: Re: Looking for Stereo Analog delay | | | > | >Hmm I don't know of *any* analog dealy that has stereo out. They | usually | >have a wet/mix and dry output on two different 1/4" jacks but it's not | >stereo. | | Actually the crusty old ARION analog delay I mentioned has stereo outs. | It has really lame bypass, but I'd still pick one up if I could find | one. Thanks for your recommendations - I'll check them out as I | encounter them. I'm imagining a stereo version of the DOD concept with a | 3pdt switch and LED. Is that too much to ask? Actually I lobbied Mike | Fuller for such a product, but he's turned off by analog's 300ms max | delay. Or how about a longer digital delay that decays down to like 2 | bits or something, crappifying the sound, sorta like the EH 16 second | box. | -eric | | | | ______________________________________________________ | Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com | | From ???@??? Tue Jul 14 09:39:57 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id AAA11954; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 00:37:50 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 00:37:50 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35AAE003.FAAB843@necom.com> Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 00:35:21 -0400 From: Spatial X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Ambient looping music Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ds9Qi2.0.Hr2.l1kgr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/546 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com http://www.necom.com/music/ From ???@??? Tue Jul 14 09:40:12 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id DAA15816; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 03:30:07 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 03:30:07 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: From: Jamie Lack To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Unknown device for loop tweaking Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 17:36:47 +1000 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"ZbeQ_1.0.7o3.NZmgr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/548 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Does anyone know of an effects device that could do the following: First make a loop, then copy this loop to the unknown effects device. The effects device can modify all sorts of parameters such as EQ, resonance, envelopes etc. You could even copy the same loop again and layer it again with different settings to produce some weird cancellations. Or you could record the same loop to the same device multiple times, muck around with the sound on each, possibly playing midi into the device to modify parameters as the loop repeats, and then mix between the loops, again with whatever control and input you can do. Are any of these features currently available on a device, or is it all in my head? This sig is presented to you by Food Acid 330 Jamie Lack jlack@auran.com From ???@??? Tue Jul 14 09:40:20 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id FAA00762; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 05:50:39 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 05:50:39 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35AB2A21.D06D4566@musician.org> Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 02:51:32 -0700 From: eric potter Reply-To: eric@musician.org Organization: Hog Wild Music and Sound FX X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: smaller pedals - the DD-5 References: <35AA0313.A058D72C@nyfac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"SKV-Z.0.F7.1dogr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/549 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com As far as the DD-5 goes, there's no infinite repeat. There is a 'hold' mode which infinite repeats a sample you capture but it will not accept any further input after the first sample, so no layering. There's also an annoying gap before the repeat There is however a very nice trick in the reverse mode: Set a longer delay time and max. feedback/repeats. Anything you fly in now will repeat backwards but as the delay duration is unpredictable in reverse, some input will be truncated and some will be sampled for a max 2 seconds. Everything repeated is heard backwards, repeated and fading over a duration of a minute or so. I like slowly strumming a single chord, listening to how it repeats and then strumming another not too dissonant chord in an open space, perhaps strumming up if the other strum went down. This sets up a shimmering cascade of notes that sounds like a complex loop, but you can do it really fast. -eric p. nyfac wrote: > What are the looping possibilities of the smaller pedals, like the Boss > DD-5 and the like? Anyone use them at all? > > tdb From ???@??? Tue Jul 14 09:40:31 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id HAA29850; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 07:14:54 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 07:14:54 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980714211125.007e1980@192.168.0.1> X-Sender: studio#mail.toysatellite.com.au@192.168.0.1 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 21:11:32 +1000 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Toy Satellite Subject: Granular Synthesis Loops Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"GVnSA1.0.lD7.7spgr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/550 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com greetings! i'm working on some loops using granular synthesis to extend the pitch and depth of my sound sources. i'm using an excellent program called Granulab (Win9x), but it has this excrutiating desire to crash... has anyone on this list come across another granular soft synth for PCs? there are several programs around for the Mac, but it seems as though Granulab is the only one available for PCs... or at least, the only one i'm aware of... andrew From ???@??? Wed Jul 15 00:32:44 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id AAA23232; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 00:50:20 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 00:50:20 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <001c01bdafab$df506be0$13da80d0@toaster.431.org> From: "James Reynolds" To: Subject: Re: Granular Synthesis Loops Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 21:48:54 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"qNUHQ2.0.Le5.YJ3hr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/561 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com a program called Audio Mulch (gotta love the name) does some cool granular synthesis stuff, among other things... http://www.codanet.com.au/audiomulch/ james -----Original Message----- From: Toy Satellite To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Tuesday, July 14, 1998 4:11 AM Subject: Granular Synthesis Loops >greetings! > >i'm working on some loops using granular synthesis to extend the pitch and >depth of my sound sources. i'm using an excellent program called Granulab >(Win9x), but it has this excrutiating desire to crash... has anyone on this >list come across another granular soft synth for PCs? there are several >programs around for the Mac, but it seems as though Granulab is the only >one available for PCs... or at least, the only one i'm aware of... > >andrew > > From ???@??? Wed Jul 15 10:28:54 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id GAA01812; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 06:01:26 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 06:01:26 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <35AC7F51.1EBD@jupiter.chu-stlouis.fr> Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 12:07:17 +0200 From: Malhomme Reply-To: o.malhomme@jupiter.chu-stlouis.fr X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re:Unknown device References: <199807150705.DAA04778@luis.yourwebhost.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"aBrr73.0.WQ.Nt7hr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/564 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I think it is called a "computer"... Olivier From ???@??? Wed Jul 15 23:35:01 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA00295; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 19:04:51 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 19:04:51 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Sender: r_t_cummings@csi.com Message-ID: <35AD143C.BE51A23C@csi.com> Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 22:42:36 +0200 From: Cummings X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Ambient looping music References: <199807140106_MC2-52F1-E9B4@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2rJLx3.0.v.gLJhr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/572 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Jul 16 10:15:05 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id DAA08905; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 03:14:33 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 03:14:33 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: From: Jamie Lack To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: I think it is called a computer Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 17:20:11 +1000 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"XDHtQ2.0.N82.pWQhr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/573 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Well, that would be a poor solution to my criteria. The computer, assuming it is a PC, has no interface for live performance, it is not integrated, probably has a slow OS (Windows), and is not built for transportation, Further, a computer on it's own does not satisfy many of the criteria. Even with software it does not. I am talking about a design solution here. I was being serious. > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Malhomme [mailto:o.malhomme@jupiter.chu-stlouis.fr] > >Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 1998 8:07 PM > >To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > >Subject: Re:Unknown device > > > > > >I think it is called a "computer"... > > > >Olivier > > This sig is presented to you by Food Acid 330 Jamie Lack jlack@auran.com From ???@??? Thu Jul 16 10:16:51 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id JAA18749; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:36:49 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:36:49 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Texture444@aol.com Message-ID: <16a7752a.35ae014f@aol.com> Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:34:05 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: torn @ knit fact, nyc 7/22 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 161 Resent-Message-ID: <"YT5EQ1.0.XX4.47Whr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/574 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com hey, yo: sorry i become such an intermittent communicator. anyway: for those of you gonna be in the ny area, i playing a solo set at the knitting factory leonard st, nyc 7/22/98 @ 2100h. mike keneally & beer-for-dolphins follows me at approx. 2230h. don't be shocked if i do some looping, there, hey? best, dt From ???@??? Thu Jul 16 23:51:19 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id CAA32060; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 02:07:52 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 02:07:52 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35AEFBEF.99A0EE73@mailbox.syr.edu> Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 02:23:26 -0500 From: mark sottilaro Reply-To: msottila@mailbox.syr.edu Organization: metaliminal X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Ithaca NY Loop show: Young People's Death Kamp! X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <19980622071415.5901.rocketmail@send1b.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"FJSiL.0.Io7.Hekhr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/579 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hey, Just a shameless plug going out to all you central NY loopers. There will be much musical mayhem made at the Haunt in Ithaca NY on Wednesday, July 22nd. 10pm. Young People's Death Kamp. Fun! Mark Sottilaro. (the guy who used to do the sock store windows.) From ???@??? Fri Jul 17 10:20:43 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id KAA25467; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 10:45:24 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 10:45:24 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Dpcoffin@aol.com Message-ID: <3ba79584.35af62c0@aol.com> Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 10:42:07 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: New loopers from Korg? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.7 for Mac sub 3 Resent-Message-ID: <"oS-zv3.0.LA6.GDshr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/580 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In case you saw this and wondered if it was a serious looper, the max delay time is 1.8 sec; per Korg, the AX1G is a Pandora on the floor. dpc <> From ???@??? Sat Jul 18 17:59:09 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id JAA11436; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 09:41:32 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 09:41:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 08:06:21 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: Looping Tonight Resent-Message-ID: <"kTUvQ1.0.Bm2.WNAir"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/587 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Do check out Adam Levins' Dark Aether Project at the Cafe Tattoo in Baltimore tonight. I saw them las tweek at Phantasmagoria and they were great. Adam laid down this very intenese scary loop at one point htat made the entire club shuut up and listen...Very spooky....I was waiting for Fripp to jump out of the rack... And now I hear Adam has a new G-Force to add to his arsenal.... Chiang Mai here I come.... Patrick Now Available: FingerPaint Primary Colors: BLUE A guitar-synth looping duo of dark illbience and dreamy ambience. Shockwave audio featuring our newest release Primary Colors:Blue www.fingerpaint.net From ???@??? Sat Jul 18 18:00:55 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA17124; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 13:46:31 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 13:46:31 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199807181744.MAA24244@smtp1.mailsrvcs.net> Date: Sat, 18 Jul 98 13:46:53 Pacific Daylight Time From: GARY "G_WEB" WEBSTER To: Loopers-Delight Subject: MAILING LIST. MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mail-Agent: An Internet Client 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"CSXzs.0.A84.AzDir"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/588 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com GARY WEBSTER 261 MCIVOR ST LYNCHBURG,VA 24504 From ???@??? Sat Jul 18 18:00:59 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA08133; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 16:43:58 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 16:43:58 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Javier Miranda V." To: Subject: RE: Computers **(MSP)** Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 13:43:12 -0700 Message-ID: <000301bdb28c$ae3c60c0$781e8ed1@electra> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: Resent-Message-ID: <"tYUea1.0.Wx1.WZGir"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/590 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com What exactly is the equipment needed here to reproduce your experiments? I think I'll have to get a PowerMac machine -- what CPU, what specs here? Is the MSP software an individual program, or is it part of the MAX software? I'm really interested in finding the details so I can run some experiments. I've been looking for the very same thing to happen in a Pentium II-based machine, but haven't. Thanks for the info! Javier | -----Original Message----- | From: Chris Stecker [mailto:cstecker@ovenguard.com] | Sent: Saturday, July 18, 1998 2:26 PM | To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com | Subject: Computers **(MSP)** | | | Hi loopers, | | I saw the topic of computers come up, and while I have to agree that | computer synthesis, to this point, has been inadequate (on many | counts) for | musical performance. There is something you all REALLY need to check out. | It's called MSP ("max signal processing") and is an extension to the | programming language MAX tha runs on Power PC macs. ... | | | I imagine you can tell I'm excited about this program. I have tried and | tried to come up with signal-processing or performance tasks that MSP | could not handle, but I can't. There isn't a device in my studio whose | functionality could not, in principle be reproduced in an MSP patch. | Information on the product can be found at http://www.cycling74.com | | | Happy looplooplooping looping happy looping happy looping happy happy | | -Chris Stecker | cstecker@ovenguard.com | | | From ???@??? Sat Jul 18 18:00:57 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA05088; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 16:23:06 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 16:23:06 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: cstecker@barr642.berkeley.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 13:26:22 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: cstecker@ovenguard.com (Chris Stecker) Subject: Computers **(MSP)** Resent-Message-ID: <"rO-LW.0.vB1._FGir"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/589 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hi loopers, I saw the topic of computers come up, and while I have to agree that computer synthesis, to this point, has been inadequate (on many counts) for musical performance. There is something you all REALLY need to check out. It's called MSP ("max signal processing") and is an extension to the programming language MAX tha runs on Power PC macs. This will sound like an advertisement; however, I am in no way affiliated with any company involved with these products, fyi. In brief, MAX is a language which allows programs ("patches") to be created by linking, graphically, various information processing elements. It is optimized for real-time and event-based processing, and has had much success in the world of improvised avant-garde music, where complex interactions between musical controllers and MIDI instruments (for example) must be achieved. MSP takes advantage of the PowerPC's ability to do fast floating-point arithmetic, and adds (real-time) signal processing capabilities to MAX. Among other things, MSP can do additive, subtractive, granular, and (real-time!) fourier synthesis/resynthesis. Live audio inputs can be processed in arbitrary ways, combined with digitally-synthesized and sampled signals. At Looper's Delight, we're most interested in MAX's real-time recording and sample-playback capabilities. I don't quite know where to start, but I could EASILY replace my echoplex DP with a very simple MSP patch. In addition to playing back my loop (forwards + backwards, with overdubbing), MSP could arbitrarily access different points in the loop, creating sub-loops and complex sequences of playback. MSP could maintain many very complex looping structures simultaneously for multi-channel (synchronized or not) looping. If I were interested in looping from soundfiles, there exist objects for real-time, sample-synchronous access to arbitrary loop points within a soundfile, effectively turning any soundfile into a "bank" of loops or samples which are independently addressible (once more, in real-time). All of this can be made controllable in arbitrary ways (graphically, by MIDI, etc.) I imagine you can tell I'm excited about this program. I have tried and tried to come up with signal-processing or performance tasks that MSP could not handle, but I can't. There isn't a device in my studio whose functionality could not, in principle be reproduced in an MSP patch. Information on the product can be found at http://www.cycling74.com Happy looplooplooping looping happy looping happy looping happy happy -Chris Stecker cstecker@ovenguard.com From ???@??? Sun Jul 19 01:32:25 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id AAA02161; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 00:39:29 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 00:39:29 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: kmistove@mail.eclipse.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 17:56:51 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Ken Mistove Subject: Re: Computers **(MSP)** Resent-Message-ID: <"oT58P2.0.MU.GXNir"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/594 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hi all, >I saw the topic of computers come up, and while I have to agree that >computer synthesis, to this point, has been inadequate (on many counts) for >musical performance. There is something you all REALLY need to check out. >It's called MSP ("max signal processing") and is an extension to the >programming language MAX tha runs on Power PC macs. I've mentioned the power of MSP here before. For ease of programming, it can't be beat. I wrote a 4 channel looper in a very short time. For anyone interested, it can be grabbed off of my home page listed below. If anyone has the machine to run MSP, you should also check out SuperCollider at http://www.audiosynth.com/. While it's much harder to work with than MSP, I don't think that there is anything that this one can't do. Both programs are well worth the time and effort to learn and use. Ken My music and other stuff: http://www.eclipse.net/~kmistove/ King Crimson music (Elephant Tape): http://www.geocities.com/~kenzak/etape/ From ???@??? Sat Jul 18 18:01:17 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA29337; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 19:13:55 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 19:13:55 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: "Collins" To: Subject: Re: Unknown device for loop tweaking Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 19:03:53 -0400 Message-ID: <01bdb2a0$555e5940$151bbfa8@0QHC6SIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"Dd2SH1.0.i77.7mIir"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/591 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I say Alvin Lucier is a Genius and he has done a lot of killer stuff that not even Cage or Brown had thought of. Keep up the experimenting. Jeff Collins -----Original Message----- From: Dennis W. Leas To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Saturday, July 18, 1998 11:40 AM Subject: Re: Unknown device for loop tweaking >I do something similar with an EDP, although you should be able to use any delay unit. > >I set the EDP to delay mode (instead of loop mode) and turn the feedback on the EDP all the >way down. This makes the EDP function as a typical delay line. Then I wire it into my >system like: > > --------------------- > mic >---+--->|in EDP out|-------+------> main out > ^ --------------------- | > | | > | | > | --------------------- | > +----|out SPX-90 in|<------+ > --------------------- > >The patches are all made through my Tascam 1024 mixer. For example, I have the AUX 1 OUT >sending to the EDP, EFF 1 OUT sending to the SPX-90, and bring the SPX-90 in a channel >whose AUX 1 sends it back to the EDP. Let me know if you need more details. I adjust the >gain in the EDP/SPX-90 loop so that the signal remains constant; this is a little tricky. >Oh, some of the EDP output goes directly back to the input without passing through the >SPX-90; I guess this isn't shown on my cut-rate diagram above. > >Since the SPX-90 returns through a channel I can mess with the EQ. I use this set-up to >simulate the piece "I Am Sitting In a Room", by Alvin Lucier > >http://www.lovely.com/titles/lucier01.html > >There are probably better ways of doing this. I have a second EDP that I want to >incorporate into this set-up but I want to build a simple patch bay first. > >- Dennis Leas > > From ???@??? Sat Jul 18 19:28:59 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id WAA15272; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 22:04:22 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 22:04:22 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <002b01bdb2b9$58fb4cc0$13da80d0@toaster.431.org> From: "James Reynolds" To: Subject: Re: Computers **(MSP)** Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 19:02:55 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"8OW3P2.0.Xh3.tFLir"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/592 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Miller Puckett, the original author of MAX, is working on a similar program called "Pure Data" that runs in Windows, IRIX, and Linux. It's still in an early alpha form, but there is already a healthy selection of MIDI and audio processing functions, and there's an add-on set of functions that allow you to integrate realtime OpenGL-accelerated graphics. If you're curious, I recommend playing with the alpha version to see what the future holds. Oh, and it's free :) http://man104nfs.ucsd.edu/~mpuckett/ james From ???@??? Sun Jul 19 01:32:23 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id AAA00875; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 00:30:21 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 00:30:21 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: kmistove@mail.eclipse.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <002b01bdb2b9$58fb4cc0$13da80d0@toaster.431.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 00:28:34 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Ken Mistove Subject: Re: Computers **(MSP)** Resent-Message-ID: <"O1-w61.0.OA.iONir"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/593 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >Miller Puckett, the original author of MAX, is working on a similar program >called "Pure Data" that runs in Windows, IRIX, and Linux. If you read about MSP's history at: http://www.cycling74.com/support/questions.html, you will see that MSP is based on Pure Data (PD). For years, I've heard/read pleas from Windows users for a port of Max. PD may be as close as it will get. The future for computer based looping looks very promising. Ken From ???@??? Sun Jul 19 01:32:29 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id CAA13441; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 02:12:47 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 02:12:47 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199807190610.XAA01685@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: Computers **(MSP)** To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 23:10:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: from "Chris Stecker" at Jul 18, 98 01:26:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"unpgp1.0.TF3.tuOir"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/595 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > At Looper's Delight, we're most interested in MAX's real-time recording and > sample-playback capabilities. I don't quite know where to start, but I > could EASILY replace my echoplex DP with a very simple MSP patch. In The problem that I see with computer based looping, effects, synthesis, etc. is still the logistics of taking your instrument to a gig. I personally would be very reluctant to take my computer and 17 inch monitor to a gig. I don't think it would be a road-worthy setup and its too bulky. This is where a hardware-based looper such as the Echoplex is still superior. It fits nicely in a rack and you don't have to bring a bulky CRT monitor to view your settings, etc. Cheers, Paolo From ???@??? Sun Jul 19 02:38:50 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id FAA25364; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 05:17:42 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 05:17:42 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Sender: mpeters@csi.com Message-ID: <01BDB306.25333310.mpeters@csi.com> From: Michael Peters To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: AW: Computers **(MSP)** Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 11:10:40 +0200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-Mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7Ypdu.0.2A6.GcRir"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/596 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com hi James, > Miller Puckett, the original author of MAX, is working on a similar program > called "Pure Data" that runs in Windows, IRIX, and Linux. It's still in an > early alpha form, but there is already a healthy selection of MIDI and audio > processing functions, and there's an add-on set of functions that allow you > to integrate realtime OpenGL-accelerated graphics. If you're curious, I > recommend playing with the alpha version to see what the future holds. Oh, > and it's free :) This is the best news I've heard for a long time. For Windows! I need a Windows based PC for work reasons and can't afford an additional Mac, but I'd *love* to play with Max. Wonderful!!! You really made my day posting this. michael peters mpeters@csi.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Mpeters/ From ???@??? Sun Jul 19 02:47:28 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id FAA26550; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 05:41:35 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 05:41:35 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199807190610.XAA01685@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> References: from "Chris Stecker" at Jul 18, 98 01:26:22 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 02:36:19 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Computers **(MSP)** Resent-Message-ID: <"RdMLh1.0.ZS6.dyRir"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/597 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 11:10 PM -0700 7/18/98, Paolo Valladolid wrote: >> At Looper's Delight, we're most interested in MAX's real-time recording and >> sample-playback capabilities. I don't quite know where to start, but I >> could EASILY replace my echoplex DP with a very simple MSP patch. In > > >The problem that I see with computer based looping, effects, synthesis, >etc. is still the logistics of taking your instrument to a gig. I personally >would be very reluctant to take my computer and 17 inch monitor to a gig. >I don't think it would be a road-worthy setup and its too bulky. > >This is where a hardware-based looper such as the Echoplex is still >superior. It fits nicely in a rack and you don't have to bring a >bulky CRT monitor to view your settings, etc. > The other thing that people seem to miss in these discussions of using something like MSP on a computer to make your own looper is the interface for the looper. Getting audio to loop is a very easy thing. Whether on a computer or on separate hardware. Designing a musically intuitive interface and feature set for a looper, when there is really not much precedent, is a whole other thing. The devil is really in the details there.... Ironing out every little subtle detail of what a musician might want something to do in a given situation, and figuring out how they might have the easiest time doing it can be maddening! To me, that's really the whole job. With the echoplex, it probably took us only a couple of days to have it looping audio once the hardware was made. It took about six years of constant work to get the Loop interface and feature set right. If you talk to the people who developed a lot of the good synths and effects processors out there you would find a similar story. Getting it to do the most basic function is deceptively easy. The interface and the interactions between the features is always the hard, time-consuming part. So beware, unless you're a nerd and doing the development and engineering is really what you are interested in (which is what motivates us...:-), trying to replace your whole studio with your own computer programming could be a much bigger project than you think. All power to you if you want to do it yourself, but if you are mostly interested in the musical result, you may be better off getting something where all the interface development is already done. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Jul 19 02:50:01 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id FAA27094; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 05:49:59 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 05:49:59 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <01BDB306.25333310.mpeters@csi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 02:47:00 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: AW: Computers **(MSP)** Resent-Message-ID: <"XnAwU3.0.wb6.b4Sir"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/598 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 2:10 AM -0700 7/19/98, Michael Peters wrote: >hi James, > >> Miller Puckett, the original author of MAX, is working on a similar program >> called "Pure Data" that runs in Windows, IRIX, and Linux. It's still in an >> early alpha form, but there is already a healthy selection of MIDI and audio >> processing functions, and there's an add-on set of functions that allow you >> to integrate realtime OpenGL-accelerated graphics. If you're curious, I >> recommend playing with the alpha version to see what the future holds. Oh, >> and it's free :) > >This is the best news I've heard for a long time. For Windows! I need a >Windows >based PC for work reasons and can't afford an additional Mac, but I'd >*love* to >play with Max. Wonderful!!! You really made my day posting this. > one thing about Max is that it has been around for quite a long time now, so there is a wealth of objects out there to build patches upon. There is also a good size community of active users to go to for advice. There's a mailing list that's been around for many years, anybody know the address of that? some people might be interested in checking it out further. Max is really a brilliant thing.... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Jul 19 12:44:33 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id GAA29373; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 06:34:45 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 06:34:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: jannel@pop4.ibm.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199807190610.XAA01685@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 12:34:26 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: "jan.larsson" Subject: Re: Computers **(MSP)** Resent-Message-ID: <"7dKuP3.0.k87.SkSir"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/599 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 08.10 +0200 98-07-19, Paolo Valladolid wrote: >The problem that I see with computer based looping, effects, synthesis, >etc. is still the logistics of taking your instrument to a gig. I personally >would be very reluctant to take my computer and 17 inch monitor to a gig. >I don't think it would be a road-worthy setup and its too bulky. > >This is where a hardware-based looper such as the Echoplex is still >superior. It fits nicely in a rack and you don't have to bring a >bulky CRT monitor to view your settings, etc. I partly agree with you. I kind of like having nice and tidy boxes. They usually sound more "alive" too. But Max/MSP can run on notebook (Apple PowerBook). But you would need one of the newer (very fast) models and they are expensive. There are rumors about a low-cost model i january though. Of course even a powerbook may not be called road-worthy. Except maybe the old 1400 model which is built like a tank!! I hope to buy a fast G3-accelerator for my 1400 to enable me to do more with Max/MSP on it. I own Max/MSP and love it!! /jan larsson (sweden) From ???@??? Sun Jul 19 12:44:46 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id JAA05980; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 09:02:25 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 09:02:25 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Dpcoffin@aol.com Message-ID: <81d7551.35b1edcf@aol.com> Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 08:59:58 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Computers **(MSP)** Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 84 Resent-Message-ID: <"ww2PX2.0.-Q1.suUir"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/600 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 7/18/98 4:22:39 PM, Chris wrote: >It's called MSP ("max signal processing") and is an extension to the >programming language MAX tha runs on Power PC macs. COOOOL!.....but MAX has always looked cool to me until I start checking deeper. I subscribed to the MAX list for about a year, and to a completely math-free and programming-lingo-limited (even if highly motivated!) slug like myself, this was like living in a foreign country without a dictionary. It reminded me that what I want to do is plug and PLAY, not boot and DEBUG! So, can you get where you've described without a degree in math, computers, or signal processing?? I even enjoy reading manuals, so that's not a problem...it's not speaking the academic language that the program and manual are written in or assume fluency in that can slow me down so much that I feel I'm wasting my time... SuperCollider for the Power Mac is another case in point. If you've got a PowerMac, download the demo without delay...totally real time synthesis and audio processing; cool sounds start pouring outta your Mac with a button press, and the graphic controllers are pretty intuitive...but the talk on the mailing list for the real program is total lab-coat; has kept me from tossing $250 on it, despite how powerful it seems to be... dpc From ???@??? Sun Jul 19 12:44:53 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id KAA13798; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 10:40:48 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 10:40:48 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: kmistove@mail.eclipse.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <01BDB306.25333310.mpeters@csi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 10:39:05 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Ken Mistove Subject: Re: AW: Computers **(MSP)** Resent-Message-ID: <"LckFU3.0.FL3.ALWir"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/601 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com To all interested, To join the Max list: Send email to:"listserv@lists.mcgill.ca" with "SUB MAX firstname lastname" in the body of the message. Once you have subscribed, MAX questions can be emailed to: "max@lists.mcgill.ca". Please note, that the mailing list's host recently changed their software and server. You may find some older subscribing info at some Max sites (even Opcode's). >one thing about Max is that it has been around for quite a long time now, >so there is a wealth of objects out there to build patches upon. There is >also a good size community of active users to go to for advice. There's a >mailing list that's been around for many years, anybody know the address of >that? some people might be interested in checking it out further. Max is >really a brilliant thing.... Ken From ???@??? Sun Jul 19 12:44:55 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id KAA14015; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 10:41:51 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 10:41:51 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: kmistove@mail.eclipse.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <199807190610.XAA01685@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> from "Chris Stecker" at Jul 18, 98 01:26:22 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 10:40:15 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Ken Mistove Subject: Re: Computers **(MSP)** Resent-Message-ID: <"DeI_V3.0.4P3.DMWir"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/602 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hey all, >The other thing that people seem to miss in these discussions of using >something like MSP on a computer to make your own looper is the interface >for the looper. Getting audio to loop is a very easy thing. Whether on a >computer or on separate hardware. Designing a musically intuitive interface >and feature set for a looper, when there is really not much precedent, is a >whole other thing. The devil is really in the details there.... Ironing out >every little subtle detail of what a musician might want something to do in >a given situation, and figuring out how they might have the easiest time >doing it can be maddening! To me, that's really the whole job. >With the echoplex, it probably took us only a couple of days to have it >looping audio once the hardware was made. It took about six years of >constant work to get the Loop interface and feature set right. If you talk >to the people who developed a lot of the good synths and effects processors >out there you would find a similar story. Getting it to do the most basic >function is deceptively easy. The interface and the interactions between >the features is always the hard, time-consuming part. Right on target, Kim. This a rarely addressed topic. MSP and Max are deceptively simple. It's very easy to quickly create audio and MIDI processing tools. The looping patcher I'm developing, was created in a very short time. Just to show others what is possible with MSP, I put a simple interface on it. It is FAR from finished. It will be a long time before I'm happy with the patcher and have a "completed" version. I've got a huge list of features to add, mostly having to deal with user interaction. This will take up the bulk of my future development. On a side note: MSP will be adding support for VST plug-ins soon. Of course I'll want to add that into the looper. For me, instead of "so little time, so much to do", I prefer "so much time, so much more to do". Your description of the echoplex development, holds true for any hardware or software development. Again, your insights show others what is often overlooked. >So beware, unless you're a nerd and doing the development and engineering >is really what you are interested in (which is what motivates us...:-), >trying to replace your whole studio with your own computer programming >could be a much bigger project than you think. All power to you if you want >to do it yourself, but if you are mostly interested in the musical result, >you may be better off getting something where all the interface development >is already done. The balancing of time between developing software and playing music is difficult. I struggle with it daily (add in an 8 hour day gig with an engineering company designing machines). If only time were a constant... I think I should mention that anyone interested in MSP does not have to purchase the full blown version. There is a free run time version available. The drawback is that you can not develop your own patchers. MSP is still very new and there are not many patchers available at the normal Max software sites yet. I'll mention again that I have a looping patcher in development (currently in a primitive but usable state), available from my home page. It is free and always will be. I would be very interested in feedback about the patcher. While I have a list of features to be added, others will want things that I haven't even thought of. I'd love to make it a collaborative project with input from this list. If anyone does try out my patcher, please direct discussion about it to my personal e-mail. The current threads on computer looping may start to alienate those using hardware devices. Ken My music and other stuff: http://www.eclipse.net/~kmistove/ King Crimson music (Elephant Tape): http://www.geocities.com/~kenzak/etape/ From ???@??? Sun Jul 19 12:44:57 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA16893; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 11:07:05 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 11:07:05 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Dpcoffin@aol.com Message-ID: <6d4ed082.35b20b02@aol.com> Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 11:04:33 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: (GEAR ALERT) Next Big Loop-processing toy? Content-type: text/plain X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 84 Resent-Message-ID: <"inOmN2.0.A54.hjWir"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/604 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Howdy--- In case you haven't seen it, this looks like a big step forward in signal processing options for the looper/player....A physical-modeling synth that has external-audio processing functions; there's a little picture at http://www.rolandus.com/PRODUCTS/MI/MI_SEB.HTM Don't know the price/date, or what would be the best kinda floor-controller to run it with... dpc ROLAND INTRODUCES JP-8080 ANALOG MODELING SYNTHESIZER MODULE -- New JP-8080 Combines Intuitive Realtime Sound Synthesis With External Audio Manipulation -- LOS ANGELES, July 10, 1998 -- Forging ahead into uncharted synthesis territory, the new Roland JP-8080 Analog Modeling Synthesizer Module offers cutting-edge realtime synthesis technology in the vein of Roland's popular JP-8000. Distinguishing itself from any synthesizer or synth module on the market today, the new JP-8080 module adds to the feature set of the JP-8000 by offering a 10-note polyphonic Analog Modeling sound source with powerful realtime sound shaping controls, external audio synthesis capabilities unlike anything currently available, a unique built-in Voice Modulator which can use the human voice to shape and filter external audio signals, and SmartMediaú storage capability -- all in a cool, retro-styled 6U rack-mount module. Using Roland's acclaimed Analog Modeling technology, the new JP-8080 can be used to produce ultra-phat analog synth sounds, as well as futuristic tones never heard before. The key to this massive sonic power is a dedicated onboard DSP oscillator which produces seven totally independent waveforms. So unlike modern PCM (sample-based) synths, the JP-8080 can instantly apply drastic tonal changes, envelope controls, sharp filters and radical sweeps -- just like a classic analog synth. And like the vintage synths, all JP-8000 sonic shaping is intuitive, with 40 knobs and sliders ready for everything from mild tweaks to realtime sonic mayhem -- no menus, no scrolling. Similarly, the 10-voice polyphonic JP-8080 even sports a new Unison mode, which can combine all voices into one to produce some of the phattest tones ever generated by a digital musical instrument. Forging into new synthesis territory, the JP-8080 also features External Audio, Instrument and Mic inputs which can be used with powerful onboard external audio synthesis functions and a unique Voice Modulator. The JP-8080's two 1/4-inch External Audio inputs allow for processing external instrument/ audio signals as OSC2 waveforms using the onboard synth controls. This feature can be used to construct entirely new sounds -- combining external audio signals with the onboard OSC1 waveforms and then applying the JP-8080's filters, envelopes, modulation routings, effects and tone controls. The external signals can also be sent through the Voice Modulator, which allows JP-8080 users to control the envelopes of synth sounds and external audio signals with the human voice, producing some classic and unique effects which are particularly dance-music friendly. There are three Voice Modulator modes: Formant Filter, Filter Bank and Vocal Morph Control. Formant Filter produces a variety of "talking" effects by analyzing the frequency bands from vocal sounds and applying them to incoming audio or synth sounds. Using the two dedicated and assignable Voice Modulator control knobs, the Formant Filter mode can produce some wild sounds and interesting modulations like "talking" breakbeats. The Filter Bank mode provides a powerful 12-band stereo filter for ultimate external audio processing. Finally, the Vocal Morph Control mode allows the JP-8080's synth sounds to be modified and filtered as desired based on mouth movement. The Voice Modulator features 26 editable parameters including Ensemble level, Delay parameters, Noise parameters, Robot effects, and Release and Resonance controls. The JP-8080 also features an Arpeggiator with 90 variable beat patterns and 48 RPS locations for creating your own patterns. These RPS locations can be used to store rhythmic and melodic phrases and slicer-style cutting effects using external audio sources. The JP-8080's onboard effects section features Flanger, Chorus, Phaser, Distortion and Delay. It also offers Bass and Treble tone controls. Effects control is accomplished through the intuitive LCD and a host of dedicated knobs, while all effects and tone control settings can be stored with corresponding Patches for instant recall. All JP-8080 knob and slider tweaks can be transmitted via MIDI for expanded sonic control. And the JP-8080's Preview function is available by using the Bank and Number keys as musical keyboard. To make connection easy, the JP-8080 features a Remote Keyboard Input to which users can simply attach a MIDI cable -- without regard to which MIDI Channel the module is set to receive on. In addition to its internal memory, the JP-8080 lets users store Patches, Performances, Motion Control loops and RPS patterns on optional 2MB and 4MB SmartMediaú cards. (Yielding an additional 4,000 or 8,000 Patches, respectively.) The Patches and Performances on a SmartMediaú card can be called out via simple program changes on the JP-8080, while all Motion Control and RPS patterns can be played back directly -- great for live performance! Roland is a world leader in the design, manufacture and distribution of electronic musical instruments, professional audio equipment, multimedia products and music accessories. Preliminary Specifications (May be subject to change.) SynthesizerParts2 (Upper, Lower)Key ModeSingle, Dual, SplitMax. Polyphony10 (Voice Modulator OFF) , 8 (Voice Modulator ON)WaveformsOSC 1:SUPER SAW, TRIANGLE MOD, NOISE, FEEDBACK OSC, SQUARE (PWM), SAW, TRIANGLE OSC 2:SQUARE (PWM), SAW, TRIANGLE, NOISEEffectsTone Control Multi-Effects (13 types) : SUPER CHORUS SLOW, SUPER CHORUS MID, SUPER CHORUS FAST, SUPER CHORUS LEAR, FLANGER SLOW, FLANGER DEEP, FLANGER FAST, DEEP PHASING SLOW, JET PHASING, TWISTING, FREEZE PHASE 1, FREEZE PHASE 2, DISTORTION Delay (5 types): PANNING L->R, PANNING R->L, PANNING SHORT, MONO SHORT, MONO LONGInternal MemoryPreset memory- Performances: 192, Patches: 384 User memory- Performances: 64, Patches: 128Voice ModulatorFormant Filter/Filter Bank/Vocal Morph Control, Noise Oscillator, Robot Oscillator, Ensemble, Delay ArpeggiatorArpeggiator modeUP, DOWN, UP&DOWN, RANDOMArpeggio Beat Pattern90 types 1/4, 1/6, 1/8, 1/12, 1/16, 1/32, PORTA A1-11, PORTA B1-15, SEQUENCE A1-7, SEQUENCE B1-5, SEQUENCE C1-2, SEQUENCE D1-8, ECHO 1-3, MUTE 1-16, STRUMMING 1-8, REFRAIN 1-2, PERCUSSION 1-4, WALKING BASS, HARP, RANDOMArpeggio Range1 to 4 octavesArpeggio HoldOn, Off Realtime Phrase SequencePattern Numbers48Recording methodRealtime (Loop Recording)Max. Loop Length4 measuresResolution24 TPQN Gate Time Ratio REAL, STACCATO, 33%, 50%, 66%, 100%Input QuantizeOFF, TRIPLET 1/16, 1/16, TRIPLET 1/8, 1/8, TRIPLET 1/4, 1/4Tempo20 to 250 Motion ControlMotion Numbers2 by 2 sets (Set A, B)Recording method Realtime (Loop Recording, One Shot Recording)Max. Loop Length8 measures Max. Recording Length99 measures (One Shot Recording mode)Tempo20 to 250 Realtime Phrase SequenceExternal storage capacity (SmartMedia)S2M-5 (2MB) Performance: 64 x32, Patch: 128 x 32, RPS pattern: 48, Motion Control: 2 x 4, System setup: 1 S4M-5 (4MB) Performance: 64 x 64, Patch: 128 x 64, RPS pattern: 48, Motion Conrtrol: 2 x 4, System setup: 1 Display16-character 2-line backlit LCDConnectorsMIDI (Remote KBD In, In, Out), Output (L/Mono, R), External Input (Inst/Lower/Mono, Vocal/Upper, MIC In) Headphones (Stereo)Power ConsumptionAC 17W (AC 117V/230V/240V) Dimensions482 (W) x 88 (D) x 264 (H) mm / 19 x 3-7/16 x 10-3/8 in.Weight 4.5 kg / 9 lbs. 15 oz. For more information, contact Roland Corporation U.S. 7200 Dominion Circle Los Angeles, CA 90040 213.685.5141 www.rolandus.com. # # # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From ???@??? Sun Jul 19 12:45:05 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA17852; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 11:14:37 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 11:14:37 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Dpcoffin@aol.com Message-ID: <5d7ac5eb.35b20cdb@aol.com> Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 11:12:26 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: External LFO sources... Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 84 Resent-Message-ID: <"ZHBio2.0.2L4.uqWir"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/605 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Greetings... I'm continually frustrated by the lack of internal global LFOs in my fx gear, and am hoping somebody out there has a suggestion. I'm looking for a hardware device (I KNOW Max can do it!) that will allow me to configure an LFO (and, ideally, other kinds of modulators, like S/H, random, audio-level, etc) and send it to any other device as a MIDI controller. I know that, virtually unique among fx devices, the Lex MPX-1 will send its own modulators out as controllers, but I was hoping not to have to spend $1K. Appreciate any ideas! Thanks... dpc From ???@??? Sun Jul 19 12:45:12 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA31072; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 13:04:32 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 13:04:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: KILLINFO@aol.com Message-ID: <68c6af58.35b22691@aol.com> Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 13:02:08 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: Computers **(MSP)** Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 59 Resent-Message-ID: <"KDKtm.0.YY7.sRYir"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/607 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Dpcoffin@aol.com, In a message dated 7/19/98 5:01:36 AM, you wrote: >SuperCollider for the Power Mac is another case in point. If you've got a >PowerMac, download the demo without delay... Can you provide the URL for this? Thanks, T.Killian From ???@??? Sun Jul 19 12:45:15 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA00602; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 13:23:43 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 13:23:43 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 13:20:52 -0400 From: "Paul J. Dresher" Subject: MAX/Computers on Stage Sender: "Paul J. Dresher" To: Loopers Delight Message-ID: <199807191321_MC2-5390-D03F@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"0RlQJ2.0.U6.qjYir"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/608 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com RE: MAX/Computers on Stage Loopers: I have seen numerous incredible performances using MAX, both for looping, and interactive functions. It is clearly a composer/performer's dream. But I am not a MAX user and here's why. I've seen too many concerts where the performance either didn't start or had to stop because MAX wasn't working. Now in some contexts, this is not such a problem but if you end up on a big festival stage, with tight on and off stage set-up/break down time, or even in any context where you have to move your equipment after an afternoon sound check and then start performing without a real full sound check immediately before performing, then you are going to be at risk for embarassment. For me it's not about taking a big computer on stage (I've always used a Powerbook for this once they existed) but far more about how bullet proof the set-up is. I'll admit I've had to stop shows because of other equipment failure (mostly Eventide problems) but usually when working with Max, you are pushing the limits of the machine/program and any little glitch (bad AC, mispatch, MIDI voodoo, who knows?) can cause problems. It may be that soon or even now, the computers are more powerful and robust so that these problems will become less frequent. For years it was easy for me to avoid MAX because I could do all the functions I needed with MIDI continuous controllers from a Digitech PMC-10 foot controller controlling various devices, like a GSP 2101, Eventide H3500, Lexicon PCM-70 and EDPs. Now with the live looping functions and MSP, it begins to look much more attractive and unique. But for stage use, the question will always be reliability. Paul Dreshser From ???@??? Sun Jul 19 12:45:21 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA06861; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 14:12:14 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 14:12:14 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: siforte@popd.ix.netcom.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 11:13:43 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: siforte@ix.netcom.com (Sanford Forte) Subject: Re: (GEAR ALERT) Next Big Loop-processing toy? Resent-Message-ID: <"nJsSA3.0.Pe1.ORZir"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/609 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 11:04 AM 7/19/98, Dpcoffin@aol.com wrote: [about the Roland JP-8080] >Formant Filter produces a variety of "talking" effects by analyzing the ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >frequency bands from vocal sounds and applying them to incoming audio or >synth sounds. Using the two dedicated and assignable Voice Modulator >control knobs, the Formant Filter mode can produce some wild sounds and >interesting modulations like "talking" breakbeats. ------ Hi, "Formant Filter" in this case is just another word for "vocoder". There was some consternation about calling it that, but Roland Japan did not relent. Just an fyi. Sanford From ???@??? Sun Jul 19 12:45:27 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA14395; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 15:10:20 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 15:10:20 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: cstecker@barr642.berkeley.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 12:13:26 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: cstecker@ovenguard.com (Chris Stecker) Subject: Way off-topic?: taking your monitor for a show Resent-Message-ID: <"RpLcQ3.0.zT3.mHair"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/610 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I don't think I would want to haul a 17" CRT to a show if I didn't have to. One solution, using a powerbook, might be great, but might suffer from other problems, notably being limited to 2-channel audio. Another solution is an LCD display. They are small and light. The CPU of a desktop mac could be rackmounted, and the LCD would make computer travel much easier. I've even seen a Wacom device that is both LCD and graphics tablet (i.e. a stylus-sensitive LCD). Sounds ideal for controlling complex looping instruments. Combined, the cost of a G3 mac and such a display should be around $4000, which sounds like a lot until I talk to my friends who have to buy "real" instruments, like good saxophones, trombones, cellos... ;-) Please don't get me wrong about this software stuff. I'm a HUGE fan of all things discrete, modular, and analog. I like patchcords and blinking lights. I like hauling racks full of gear to gigs. I love my echoplex, and I won't be replacing it with software; it's just that there's so much that it _can't_ do. -Chris From ???@??? Sun Jul 19 15:11:01 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA03494; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 17:53:01 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 17:53:01 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Crossedout@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 17:50:26 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Computers **(MSP)** Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Resent-Message-ID: <"yChFL.0.bp.Igcir"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/611 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 98-07-19 02:12:22 EDT, you write: << The problem that I see with computer based looping, effects, synthesis, etc. is still the logistics of taking your instrument to a gig. I personally would be very reluctant to take my computer and 17 inch monitor to a gig. I don't think it would be a road-worthy setup and its too bulky. >> What about using a laptop? I have done a lot of looping stuff with a friend of mine where I was using my 486/50 IBM Thinkpad to do lots of looping and sound processing, as it was the most portable instrument I had (aside from my MPC 2000) that I could take to his house easily. - Bill Crossedout@aol.com From ???@??? Sun Jul 19 15:30:31 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id SAA06412; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 18:14:07 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 18:14:07 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199807191321_MC2-5390-D03F@compuserve.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 15:08:52 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: MAX/Computers on Stage Resent-Message-ID: <"uI0zp1.0.5X1.6-cir"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/612 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 10:20 AM -0700 7/19/98, Paul J. Dresher wrote: >other equipment failure (mostly Eventide problems) but usually when working >with Max, you are pushing the limits of the machine/program and any little >glitch (bad AC, mispatch, MIDI voodoo, who knows?) can cause problems. It >may be that soon or even now, the computers are more powerful and robust so >that these problems will become less frequent. I don't think that you will be seeing computers becoming more robust and reliable in the near future. If anything, they are getting much worse. Since I'm intimately involved in designing these infernal things, here's my take on that: The entire PC industry is currently fixated on designing extremely low cost machines. (the sub $1000 thing was a big deal last year, now it's sub $600, next year it will be $300 - $400....) Since the PC industry is largely incapable of doing any dramatic changes in design architecture that would really result in low cost machines, they instead achieve this in the following ways: b) eliminate quality every place you can. Customers can't judge those things, it's better to have a product that is $2 cheaper than one that will last more than a year or perform reliably. And beleive me, the first target for cost reduction these days is the audio section. a) eliminate your profit margins or even operate at a loss, hoping that you outlive all the competitors and can raise prices again. A lot of companies are going out of business right now, or leaving the PC industry. The small companies who would have made high quality systems are mostly in this category. Don't think you escape this by buying a higher priced system either, the attitude pervades all price categories. If you want reliable hardware for stage use, look into machines designed for inustrial purposes and factory floors. And expect to pay a lot for it..... >H3500, Lexicon PCM-70 and EDPs. Now with the live looping functions and >MSP, it begins to look much more attractive and unique. But for stage use, >the question will always be reliability. some other things to consider for using computers for live music: The audio path latency on Macs and PCs can be very long. It can easily be several hundred milliseconds for audio to be passed into a PC, processed, and passed out again. Even worse, the latency is not predictable. It can vary quite a bit. Microsoft has made a big deal about latency performance on Windows98 with the upcoming Direct Music addition, but it's still going to be 10ms! that's way longer than any standalone audio processor. (10ms is a lot of cycles on a 400MHz pentiumII, you gotta wonder what they do with it all...) And it's still not a guaranteed latency. A PC might work fine for audio in one direction. The software can compensate for that. But if you expect it to replace a real-time, stand alone audio processor, you've got a long wait ahead of you. About your only hope is to buy a good quality audio accelerator that handles all the audio on a separate processor with it's own real-time kernal. But if you're doing that to take the audio away from the PC's tangled OS mess anyway, than why even use the PC? You're better off buying something designed specifically to do quality audio processing, and leave the PC in the role of user interface via midi control. Another problematic thing with trying to get a general purpose PC do a very specific task is that these machines are designed with a least-common-demominator approach. The goal is to make the feature list as long as possible while staying in a price range. Unfortunately, that's how people buy PCs, so that's what the industry does. They compare one feature checklist to another. The pie gets divided up in so many ways that the amount spent on any single function becomes very small. Again, quality is way down the priority list. And again, in my experience, graphics performace gets the biggest slice of pie, audio gets the smallest. It's amazing how little manufacturers are willing to spend for audio.... oh, and no matter what the hardware is, Windows and MacOS still crash.... kim (boy, that was negative, eh? You would almost think the company I work for had to lay off half its staff last week or something...) ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Jul 19 19:05:44 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA15512; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 19:27:01 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 19:27:01 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 19:25:08 -0400 From: buzzard@world.std.com (Sean T Barrett) Message-Id: <199807192325.AA24065@world.std.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: (GEAR ALERT) Next Big Loop-processing toy? Resent-Message-ID: <"dhgHU.0.Hl3.Q2eir"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/613 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >Here's a few missing bits, thanks to Sweetwater's NAMM report: ... > sounds to the plate. Add MIDI synced LFO's and filters that can be > controlled by an audio input to that and one can quickly build some > sounds that are just begging to be sampled and looped. Or, to paraphrase, "factor in some incredible real-live-performance features and you've got a machine just begging to be sampled into some other hardware so you can make it behave simply and predictably." Thank you, Sweetwater. From ???@??? Mon Jul 20 10:11:12 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA09431; Mon, 20 Jul 1998 12:15:10 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 12:15:10 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:07:51 -0700 Message-ID: <000FFB79.----@wj.com> From: Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle) Subject: Re: Straight, no looper. To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" , Andreas Willers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"F36KC3.0.fC2.Mpsir"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/614 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Andreas wrote... >'jazz', although being a beautiful and originally very down-to-earth music, >consists of some parameters that lend itself to academic teaching and >therefore are being taught over and overandover by people that are more >teachers than musicians. They want you to think that this is difficult - >don't believe them!... Thanks for the kind support Andreas! I'm very wary of anyone I've just met trying to tell me how to "get back to the basics and really do this right!" I'm just to damn bullheaded. I *do* like the idea of becoming more proficient at getting around better on conventional changes, but my own weird technique somehow goes sideways through nearly *any* changes quite nicely. Although with it's own distinctive exposed nerve endings! 8-> I'll find a way to destroy jazz someday! Till then... I'll keep making my own noise. The looper really *is* an incredible practice tool! Cheers, Miko From ???@??? Tue Jul 21 00:01:38 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA08200; Mon, 20 Jul 1998 14:27:51 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 14:27:51 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 14:14:06 -0400 From: "Paul J. Dresher" Subject: Software vs Hardware on Stage Sender: "Paul J. Dresher" To: Looopers Delight Message-ID: <199807201414_MC2-53A1-BBE6@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"gc-Qi.0.7v1.Uluir"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/618 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Kim: Thanks for that very informed reply to my hopeful/wishful thoughts on the evolution of computers as reliable stage tools. It reminds me of a situation a couple of years ago when I had to go back to an old SE30 running System 6.08 and Performer 4.2. The system was Fast and NEVER crashed. And knowing how often this 1400 crashes...but I still take it on stage, but only to be ready for data back-ups for all the stage synths, samplers etc. and to generate an occasional click track. So far so good for those uses but runnning Max is much more computerintensive and I imagine MSP even more so. Guess I'll be sticking to all the old modules. Paul Dresher From ???@??? Tue Jul 21 00:02:10 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA22309; Mon, 20 Jul 1998 17:47:42 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 17:47:42 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980720163929.0089dd20@wavefront.com> X-Sender: chuck.zwicky@wavefront.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 16:39:29 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chuck Zwicky Subject: EDP and Jam-Man Schematics. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"imZsY2.0.SO5.Dhxir"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/623 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Kim, A long time ago, these were supposed to be scanned and posted on the website. Any progress? -Chuck Zwicky From ???@??? Tue Jul 21 00:02:16 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id UAA16117; Mon, 20 Jul 1998 20:02:49 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 20:02:49 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199807210000.RAA08038@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: Computers **(MSP)** To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 17:00:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: from "Crossedout@aol.com" at Jul 19, 98 05:50:26 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"GEvNS2.0.Yu3.pfzir"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/625 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > > In a message dated 98-07-19 02:12:22 EDT, you write: > > << The problem that I see with computer based looping, effects, synthesis, > etc. is still the logistics of taking your instrument to a gig. I personally > would be very reluctant to take my computer and 17 inch monitor to a gig. > I don't think it would be a road-worthy setup and its too bulky. > >> > > What about using a laptop? I have done a lot of looping stuff with a friend of > mine where I was using my 486/50 IBM Thinkpad to do lots of looping and sound > processing, as it was the most portable instrument I had (aside from my MPC > 2000) that I could take to his house easily. > > - Bill > Crossedout@aol.com My understanding is that folks are not happy with the quality of audio produced by laptops for music applications. There's also the issue of latency in real-time processing of audio as covered by Kim in his post. But if it works for you (and you are happy with the sound)... Cheers, Paolo From ???@??? Tue Jul 21 00:02:18 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id UAA17571; Mon, 20 Jul 1998 20:11:10 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 20:11:10 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199807210008.RAA08093@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: Computers **(MSP)** To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 17:08:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: from "jan.larsson" at Jul 19, 98 12:34:26 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ZZa042.0.GD4.-mzir"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/626 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > But Max/MSP can run on notebook (Apple PowerBook). But you would > need one of the newer (very fast) models and they are expensive. I recall reading on the MSP website that David Zicarelli did not find the audio quality of the Powerbook to be acceptable in comparison to a system with a full-blown PCI card. Cheers, Paolo From ???@??? Tue Jul 21 00:02:20 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id VAA25893; Mon, 20 Jul 1998 21:01:45 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 21:01:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199807210059.RAA08409@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: (GEAR ALERT) Next Big Loop-processing toy? To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 17:59:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <6d4ed082.35b20b02@aol.com> from "Dpcoffin@aol.com" at Jul 19, 98 11:04:33 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Zv2R-3.0.lH6.EX-ir"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/627 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > ROLAND INTRODUCES JP-8080 ANALOG MODELING SYNTHESIZER MODULE > -- New JP-8080 Combines Intuitive Realtime Sound Synthesis With External > Audio Manipulation -- I'd be interested to see how this compares with the Nord Modular, a synthesizer which uses physical modeling to simulate up to four modular analog synthesizers. The Modular also has a pair of external audio inputs. URL: http://www.clavia.se/nordmodular/ Cheers, Paolo From ???@??? Tue Jul 21 00:02:24 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id VAA00954; Mon, 20 Jul 1998 21:51:12 -0400 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 21:51:12 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199807210149.SAA08583@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: MAX/Computers on Stage To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 18:49:24 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: from "Kim Flint" at Jul 19, 98 03:08:52 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wMa_i.0.9D.sF_ir"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/628 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Kim, I didn't find your post to be negative. It's good to see a reality check from an insider every now and then, actually. :) As far as Powerbooks go, I've owned one and used it to run Max before, so I'm not against using a Powerbook to control MIDI functions. But I'm not sure I'd use one for processing audio on a live gig (though admittedly I just saw Oval and Jim O'Rourke both use Powerbooks just for that purpose). I'd still rather use dedicated hardware for live effects and looping. Software synths are a great development, but again, I'm not sold on dragging a computer to a gig to use them live. Maybe what I would do if I had a software synth or two is do all the sound design on the computer at home and record sounds and/or phrases into a sampler and use that sampler to play the sounds/phrases live. Cheers, Paolo From ???@??? Tue Jul 21 10:21:02 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id FAA32053; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 05:37:07 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 05:37:07 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: cstecker@barr642.berkeley.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 02:39:47 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: cstecker@ovenguard.com (Chris Stecker) Subject: MSP and Laptop Audio Resent-Message-ID: <"-S6ud3.0.wn7.H46jr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/629 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Wow. I didn't expect quite this thread on MSP here, although I can understand it. As far as audio quality, I have to agree that laptops leave much to be desired. I've got a Powerbook 520 ("CD-Quality Audio") and a Quadra 950 (plain old mac audio), and the quadra sounds much better, even just off the board. Add a sound card, and it actually starts to sound good. For MSP, there are also weird timing and interrupt(?) issues with several of the powerbook models, including the 5300 and 2400, resulting in very slow operation. None of the desktop models are affected in this way. Latency depends upon the audio interface used. The shortest, around 23 ms, is achieved using the sound manager, and audio from the CPU. Some sound cards can achieve this as well (PT Direct I/O, Korg 1212), but most are worse, and some are a lot worse. There is also a fundamental low-end limit to latency, based on the sample buffer size (number of samples processed and output as a chunk). This is adjustable down to 64 samples (~1.4 ms) in MSP, though not all sound cards can go so low. This is probably one place where dedicated hardware will show a real advantage. I assume something like the EDP could process single samples (which allows control changes to happen at any time during the data stream). I could be wrong, though. Am I? It seems software devices, where you have to deal with an entire general-purpose computer, will always suffer from this overhead, but higher clock speeds, and possible higher sampling rates might help (64 samples at 192 kHz is about 0.3 ms). For more traditional music performance, these latency issues can be serious, especially where they interfere with audio-rate interactions between devices. However, my EDP is usually set to loop between 4 and 40 seconds. Audio in-out latency of 20ms or so should hardly matter at all. Setting loop points by button-press, as in the EDP, may be made difficult due to control latency (time from button-press to change in audio). I'm not sure if the system would work like this or not, but adding 20ms to a loop would mean desynchronization of a full second after about 50 repetitions, which wouldn't be good. Loop points could still be set by calculating loop lengths, with graphical controls, etc. -Chris From ???@??? Tue Jul 21 20:47:56 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@luis.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA24145; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 17:07:26 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 17:07:26 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980721170406.006c9b2c@popmail.voicenet.com> X-Sender: ngc1275@popmail.voicenet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 17:04:06 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Theatre of the Mind Subject: Software vs. Hardware onstage Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"whJlH.0.Rq5.GBGjr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/631 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hi All, I just picked up a laptop with the Sonic Foundry Acid program and I love it. I can create loops, change tempo and key live on the fly. I can bring a multitude of sequences in and out, move them around and add samples from my wav. library all in the middle of a performance. I havn't done any midi functions yet because I'm looking for some hardware for that now. I like using the laptop because it cuts my gear requirement in half. Since it's a sample base platform I can put anything on my rack into it and simply drag and click it into the musical arena. I'm a novice when it comes to computers so the programs can't drift to far from point and click (especially on stage). So far it has made my performances so much easier to setup, lug gear and perform with everything I need at my fingertips. Now I just bring out my Jupiter-6 and rack with mixer, one space of effects, RDS8000 and midi patch bay and sometimes my VFX. I can do loops forever without a break with this setup IF i want. The only problem I have right now is what kind of midi board is available for a laptop. I also need a better sound board. Laptops do have they're unique problems too, such as higher exspense and do to it's compactness, harder to interchange peripherals. I have to deal with pc cards for add-ons and peripherals. All and all, as a unit for accessing samples and drum loops, my laptop computer has proven a valuable tool to my performance setup. In the future I'll be able to sink up video graphics and AVI's with the Sonic Foundry editing program as well (one thing at a time). Basicly, I'm a happy camper. I'll be performing in Philadelphia center city on August 4th 10:00PM at Upstairs at Nick's, 16 south 2nd St. 215.928.0665. I'm calling myself Theatre of the Mind in an event called ELECTROLUST. Also a group called Flowchart will be performing with electronic synth, sample loops, LP's mixes. It will be a very creative evening. If you're in the Philly area stop in and say hi. Later, Mark of b. From ???@??? Tue Jul 21 21:38:51 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by luis.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA24145; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 17:07:26 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 17:07:26 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: luis.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980721170406.006c9b2c@popmail.voicenet.com> X-Sender: ngc1275@popmail.voicenet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 17:04:06 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Theatre of the Mind Subject: Software vs. Hardware onstage Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"whJlH.0.Rq5.GBGjr"@luis.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/631 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hi All, I just picked up a laptop with the Sonic Foundry Acid program and I love it. I can create loops, change tempo and key live on the fly. I can bring a multitude of sequences in and out, move them around and add samples from my wav. library all in the middle of a performance. I havn't done any midi functions yet because I'm looking for some hardware for that now. I like using the laptop because it cuts my gear requirement in half. Since it's a sample base platform I can put anything on my rack into it and simply drag and click it into the musical arena. I'm a novice when it comes to computers so the programs can't drift to far from point and click (especially on stage). So far it has made my performances so much easier to setup, lug gear and perform with everything I need at my fingertips. Now I just bring out my Jupiter-6 and rack with mixer, one space of effects, RDS8000 and midi patch bay and sometimes my VFX. I can do loops forever without a break with this setup IF i want. The only problem I have right now is what kind of midi board is available for a laptop. I also need a better sound board. Laptops do have they're unique problems too, such as higher exspense and do to it's compactness, harder to interchange peripherals. I have to deal with pc cards for add-ons and peripherals. All and all, as a unit for accessing samples and drum loops, my laptop computer has proven a valuable tool to my performance setup. In the future I'll be able to sink up video graphics and AVI's with the Sonic Foundry editing program as well (one thing at a time). Basicly, I'm a happy camper. I'll be performing in Philadelphia center city on August 4th 10:00PM at Upstairs at Nick's, 16 south 2nd St. 215.928.0665. I'm calling myself Theatre of the Mind in an event called ELECTROLUST. Also a group called Flowchart will be performing with electronic synth, sample loops, LP's mixes. It will be a very creative evening. If you're in the Philly area stop in and say hi. Later, Mark of b. From ???@??? Tue Jul 21 21:39:05 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id UAA06890; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 20:31:35 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 20:31:35 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199807220028.RAA14413@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: ObjektSynth To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 17:28:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: from "Chris Stecker" at Jul 18, 98 01:26:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"UdfUl1.0.5c1.I9Jjr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/633 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In my little investigation of software synths, I found ObjektSynth at http://www.objektsynth.com What is different about this one is that it runs on BeOS. Apparently the ObjektSynth folks tackled the computer OS latency problem by avoiding Mac OS and Windows altogether and throwing their lot in with BeOS instead. BeOS is a fairly new operating system that is being promoted by its creators as an OS that takes more advantage of the latest hardware than does Windows or Mac OS and was designed from the ground up for real-time issues. The Be corporation initially attempted to sell its own PowerPC box as the hardware platform for BeOS but eventually gave up and now sells its OS for PowerPCs (except the G3s - for some reason Apple refuses to provide assistance to Be on those) and Intel processors. The URL for BeOS is http://www.be.com >From what I can gather, ObjektSynth essentially does the same thing as the Nord Modular in that it simulates a modular analog synth (the most powerful kind of analog synth because you can configure it any way you want by patching together modules, but also the most expensive, high maintenance kind ) in software. But the Nord Modular has a greater variety of modules, is more portable (you bring just the Nord Modular - not your computer - to a gig), doesn't require you to invest time and money in a new OS, and best of all has two independent analog inputs so you can plug your guitar/bass/Stick/mic/whatever into it and trigger synths functions. Still, if you have an idea for a killer computer-based studio app that runs free of the latencies of Windows or Mac OS and are daring enough, BeOS is available as an option. Cheers, Paolo From ???@??? Tue Jul 21 21:39:11 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id VAA15412; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 21:50:27 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 21:50:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35B5460B.64CA5FCC@networkusa.net> Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 20:53:15 -0500 From: Pat Moore X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Boomerang Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"blZgl2.0.eg3.5JKjr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/634 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hello everyone, First post to this fine list. I'm looking for some opinions on the Boomerang Phrase Sampler, especially in regards to its features and ease of use. Also any comparison to other loopers, like the JamMan or Digital Echoplex, would be appreciated. I'm considering this product becasue it would be easier on the pocket-book and also has a built-in foot controller. Thanks in advance, Pat Moore From ???@??? Tue Jul 21 21:39:18 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id WAA22252; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 22:58:31 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 22:58:31 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Nemoguitt@aol.com Message-ID: <2a91c176.35b55487@aol.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 22:55:02 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Boomerang Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"BZ2P32.0.aN5.RJLjr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/635 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com pat- i am a big fan of the rang. 1- it is very easy to use (this i feel is its best feature), 2- it is a foot pedal that is built like a tank, great for real time playing, 3- although some would disagree, i feel that the sound quality is very good, you play it and decide for yourself, 4- it is not as deep as the plex but with a 1 sec. to over 4 min. looptime you can work with entire song structures, 5- it is a great leaning device for practiceing 6- it is a wonderful way to work out ideas quickly, 7- according to mike at boomerang (a nice guy btw), there are some up-grades coming soon. basically i have had mine for well over a year and it has been the source of much joy and fun. i have not used my 4 trac since i got the rang.it is unforgiving in its inability to un-do mistakes so it forces you to play better imho. if you have any questions please contact me off list and we can talk about it.........till then rang- on............michael From ???@??? Tue Jul 21 21:39:19 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id XAA23210; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 23:06:09 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 23:06:09 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: KelRey@aol.com Message-ID: <2ec0e8f8.35b55659@aol.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 23:02:47 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: Boomerang Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 84 Resent-Message-ID: <"PLN0P2.0._b5.PQLjr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/636 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I have a Rang and an EDPRO I love them both. The Rang is great for practicing. Easy to use . etc. The EDP allows for many possibilities for creativity and looping. Loop on Kelly From ???@??? Wed Jul 22 03:02:22 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id EAA11764; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 04:05:44 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 04:05:44 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 01:00:57 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Computers **(MSP)** Resent-Message-ID: <"6RNvD3.0.mq2.BpPjr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/637 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 2:50 PM -0700 7/19/98, Crossedout@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 98-07-19 02:12:22 EDT, you write: > ><< The problem that I see with computer based looping, effects, synthesis, > etc. is still the logistics of taking your instrument to a gig. I personally > would be very reluctant to take my computer and 17 inch monitor to a gig. > I don't think it would be a road-worthy setup and its too bulky. > >> > >What about using a laptop? I have done a lot of looping stuff with a friend of >mine where I was using my 486/50 IBM Thinkpad to do lots of looping and sound >processing, as it was the most portable instrument I had (aside from my MPC >2000) that I could take to his house easily. Taking something to someone's house is a lot different from going on tour or doing 200 shows a year in the local bars.....Just wait til the crate carrying your laptop falls off the airplane's baggage ramp and drops 10 feet to the pavement and lands underneath the power amp....or until an intoxicated fan or bandmate spills their beer into the keyboard....or the stage power in a foreign country is wired wrong and you plug into it..... "road-worthy" means it will survive these things..... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Wed Jul 22 10:29:51 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id IAA20344; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 08:23:55 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 08:23:55 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Marzzz@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 08:20:10 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Software vs. Hardware onstage Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 84 Resent-Message-ID: <"nrHxD.0.Bx4.VbTjr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/638 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 7/21/98 4:06:11 PM, you wrote: <> Is there some kind of similar software for Macintosh? Marshall From ???@??? Wed Jul 22 10:30:05 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id KAA29947; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 10:42:30 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 10:42:30 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <2C396693FBDED111AEF60000F84104A71A6358@indyexch_fddi.indy.tce.com> From: Hoover Alan To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Boomerang and Akai "Riff-o-matic" Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:39:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"3NJvP2.0.aF7.GdVjr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/639 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I don't have a Boomerang, but I have an Akai "Riff-o-Matic" U40 sampler. It now sells for around $149 (typical mail-order price), which is 1/3 the price of the Boomerang. I love this thing. I chose it over everything else because of features and price. The thing that sets it apart is the loop-within-main loop feature. (Read #6 and #7.) After you record a solo (up to 27 seconds), you can use the built-in features as follows: 1. All of the buttons are dedicated to only one function. No hidden levels or multi-function buttons to make you constantly refer to an owner's manual. 2. 27 seconds will record enough material to keep a person busy for hours or days. More would be nice, but is not necessary. Incidentally, this 27 seconds is for "extended mode", having lower audio frequency response. "Regular mode" is 13.5 seconds. I find that this lower frequency response of the "extended mode" makes little or no difference when learning riffs. 3. Incrementally lower or raise the pitch in semi-tones AND fine increments, so you don't have to retune your instrument if you happen to be slightly off pitch from the original material. 4. When the memory gets full, the machine will automatically switch from RECORD mode to PLAYBACK mode, and begin playing back. It will play the loop over and over until you push the PLAY/STOP button. 5. The full speed playback is nice quality audio. When you go to 1/3 or 1/2 speed, however, the playback quality has stange artifacts in it as a result of digital processing. However, these slowdown modes are very useful, allowing the musician to pick out difficult speedy passages. Even though the slowed-down modes sound strange, you can still pick out the notes, which is the important thing. 6. The neatest thing is the LOOP mode. This isolates a minor loop passage within the major loop that has been recorded. When I learn songs or solos off of others' work, I personally tend to learn them in convenient chunks. By pushing the "LOOP START" button where you want to start and the "LOOP STOP" button at the end of the passage, this minor "loop within loop" will play over and over until you clear it by pressing "START" and "STOP" buttons simultaneously. You can make the loop as short or as long as you want. This feature speeds up learning greatly, because it lets you focus on the very tough parts. When you finish with one passage, you can replay the major loop and re-isolate a new minor loop. This way, you incrementally work your way through a complete solo. 7. Furthermore, there is a NOTE GRABBER button which freezes a short burst of time (about 2 to 4 tenths of a second) and plays it over and over. You then use the UP/DOWN buttons to move back and forth in time to precisely grab notes which go by so fast that they are hard to pick out, even at 1/2 speed. This I find invaluable for things like fast chord changes (hearing a brief chord burst over and over lets you dissect it) and arpeggios, etc. These last two features are what made me decide on this particular phrase sampler. These are the meat of this sampler, and sets it apart. They cut learning time by 50-90 percent, I would estimate. I WOULD RECOMMEND NOT BUYING ANY SAMPLER THAT DOESN'T HAVE THESE TWO FEATURES! The first thing I did when I got mine was to learn Doc Watson's "Black Mountain Rag" in a few hours. It would have taken days without the Riff-o-Matic. 8. Self-contained. I can use it with a jam box or with my main stereo. I don't have to drag myself to a computer do figure out solos. This machine was obviously designed by someone who learns a lot of solos, and wanted to be able to focus in on the most difficult parts easily and quickly. It's a lot like using a good word-processor. Disadvantages: The main thing is the digital artifacts at 1/2 and 1/3 speed, although this doesn't actually get in the way of picking out the information. The artifacts sound like "clicks". I wish that the memory was non-volatile. This is a minor inconvenience. Also it would be nice to be able to store 10 or so samples in non-volatile memory, but this would probably place the unit in a considerably higher price bracket. -----Original Message----- From: Pat Moore [mailto:patm@networkusa.net] Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 1998 8:53 PM To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Boomerang Hello everyone, First post to this fine list. I'm looking for some opinions on the Boomerang Phrase Sampler, especially in regards to its features and ease of use. Also any comparison to other loopers, like the JamMan or Digital Echoplex, would be appreciated. I'm considering this product becasue it would be easier on the pocket-book and also has a built-in foot controller. Thanks in advance, Pat Moore From ???@??? Wed Jul 22 10:30:21 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA07650; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 12:21:33 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 12:21:33 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35B612AA.457@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:26:19 -0700 From: scott kungha drengsen X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Boomerang References: <2C396693FBDED111AEF60000F84104A71A6358@indyexch_fddi.indy.tce.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pwTUi3.0.Dp1.D4Xjr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/640 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I recorded my CD "BASSCAPES"and do my live shows with a Boomerang.It's sturdy,compact and (most importantly)the pedals are responsive and easy to nail in performance.(a cause of nearly endless grief with the flimsy pedals of the jamman)I like having 4 minutes to work with and the reverse function is very cool for fretless bass and sonic landscapes.I do notice a slight degadation of sound quality(I usually attempt to work this into the composition by soloing live over loops) and I wish I could produce simultaneous loops of varying lengths.So,I probebly will be moving on to the mighty ECP eventually.Even so my Boomerang always sits next to the drum machine when I practice it's ease of use and instant feedback are indispensible. From ???@??? Wed Jul 22 10:30:47 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA11097; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 13:00:58 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 13:00:58 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980722120001.00a5de70@wavefront.com> X-Sender: chuck.zwicky@wavefront.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 12:00:01 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chuck Zwicky Subject: I need EDP ecn update info... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"76TuJ2.0.Me2.8fXjr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/641 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Kim, Is there a list of which resistor values need to be changed to update an old EDP? Is there a modification for the gate threshold (Can it be set lower to avoid cutting off the initial attack of the first pass when it involves a fade-in?). Is there a mod to the limiter circuit? Thanks, -Chuck Zwicky From ???@??? Wed Jul 22 11:28:48 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA15533; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 13:41:41 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 13:41:41 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Nemoguitt@aol.com Message-ID: <991749f0.35b6237c@aol.com> Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 13:38:03 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Boomerang Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"yxc4t.0.ej3.FFYjr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/642 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 7/22/98 3:21:00 PM Mid-Atlantic Daylight Time, kungha@earthlink.net writes: << I wish I could produce simultaneous loops of varying lengths >> what do you mean by this?.......could you give an example,please?.........michael From ???@??? Thu Jul 23 00:59:26 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA23874; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 15:08:41 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 15:08:41 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35B639F5.7D93@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 12:13:58 -0700 From: scott kungha drengsen X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Boomerang References: <991749f0.35b6237c@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tAlXx.0.lm5.rWZjr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/643 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Yes,the length of the loop is set with the 1st "recording".After that the number of bars is set to that length.So I can't have 4,8, and 24 bar(for example)loops going at the same time.And,I'm starting to think this way... From ???@??? Thu Jul 23 00:59:42 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA06415; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 17:29:33 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 17:29:33 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980722172459.006c9e24@popmail.voicenet.com> X-Sender: ngc1275@popmail.voicenet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 17:24:59 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Theatre of the Mind Subject: Re: Software vs. Hardware onstage In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"TdPYz2.0._U1.yabjr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/644 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 08:20 AM 7/22/98 EDT, you wrote: > >In a message dated 7/21/98 4:06:11 PM, you wrote: > ><love it. I can create loops, change tempo and key live on the fly. >I can bring a multitude of sequences in and out, move them around and >add samples from my wav. library all in the middle of a performance. >> > > >Is there some kind of similar software for Macintosh? > > > >Marshall > > > Hi Marshall, I think it's PC exclusive but not sure. You can reach them at: 1.800.57.sonic or sales@sonicfoundrycom or www.sonicfoundry.com From ???@??? Thu Jul 23 00:59:50 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id SAA12137; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 18:19:11 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 18:19:11 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980722221657.00e2d678@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 15:16:57 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Boomerang Resent-Message-ID: <"ElX881.0.Tv2.ZJcjr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/646 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 05:58 PM 7/22/98 -0400, The Unit Circle wrote: > It isn't as powerful as the >echoplex, but it is much simpler to use in a performance setting. If I >had more cash, I would use the echoplex in the studio and the 'rang on >stage. We designed the echoplex specifically to be easy to use in performance, and based that off quite a lot of study of it's predecessors and users. For instance the display and LEDs show you what is going on and where you are, and are large enough to see. The functions all operate in ways we found to be most musically intuitive. And if you accidently hit the wrong button and destroy or screw up your loop, you just press Undo and it's back, even staying in time. So I'm sort of curious about your impression that it isn't simple or useful in performance. What specifically do you find complicated about it? If there is something that can be improved, we'd like to hear your opinion. kim ________________________________________________________ Kim Flint, MTS 408-752-9284 Chromatic Research kflint@chromatic.com http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Thu Jul 23 00:59:56 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA20635; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 19:43:41 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 19:43:41 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Sender: r_t_cummings@csi.com Message-ID: <35B675A0.29A48EB9@csi.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 01:28:32 +0200 From: Cummings X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers Delight Subject: Akai S20 Phrase Sampler Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Qy8jH.0.fz4.jYdjr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/647 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hello loopers, I'm considering buying an affordable sampler (with drum machine sequencer) in the somewhat distant future. How is the S20 from Akai? I'd love to hear from anyone whose used this or another product in the same price range. How flexible is the drum programming? Does the 32 kHz max. sampling rate cut it? Is it reliable live? Important: How do you prepare samples for it - i.e. how difficult is it to convert sound files from a PC format to the Akai 'S' format? Thanks in advance for any input, Rob From ???@??? Thu Jul 23 01:00:12 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id VAA00589; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 21:55:00 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 21:55:00 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Crossedout@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 21:51:42 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Akai S20 Phrase Sampler Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Resent-Message-ID: <"-eQkp3.0.F5.yTfjr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/648 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I don't have one (I have an MPC 2000) but a friend of mine got one and was very disappointed in the cost versus performance, ease of use and overall quality of the unit. He found it very difficult to work with, the user interface was not very intuitive, and the sample quality was not to his liking either. Personally, I'd say save up some more and get an MPC. They got THAT unit right. - Bill Crossedout@aol.com From ???@??? Thu Jul 23 01:00:18 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id WAA05568; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 22:40:27 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 22:40:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 19:37:27 -0700 (PDT) From: N To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Roland SP-808 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"wADuu2.0.MH1.R8gjr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/649 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Was wondering what the user feedback on this was. N From ???@??? Thu Jul 23 01:00:20 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id WAA06216; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 22:45:45 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 22:45:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35B6A399.6CAAADA0@musician.org> Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 19:44:46 -0700 From: eric potter Reply-To: eric@musician.org Organization: Hog Wild Music and Sound FX X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Boomerang References: <199807222158.RAA19806@keys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1qIsu3.0.aS1.XDgjr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/650 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > I just got my Boomerang last night and am very excited! I've been a JamMan user ever since they first appeared, and though I appreciate its kind service to me over the years, I usually felt limited by its inflexibility once a loop is underway, and was disappointed to find out very quickly that the reverse function is for one-time-only sample playback and loops won't go backwards, etc. I had been reading a bit about the 'Rang, so on a hopeful whim I looked in my local want-ad rag (God Bless the Recycler!) and I was happy to see a Boomerang for sale, used but not gigged. I called and offered $250, and with only the slightest pause he agreed. I don't know what new ones are really going for these days but I had $280 in the bank somehow, and it felt right. When I got to the seller's home, I plugged in and having never used one before created a short multi-layered guitar-swell atmos loop thing with a snakey backwards line and we were all amazed how quickly it happened. This device reminds me of the much-coveted EH 16 sec. delay which I've had some near-acquisitions of (but I've always ended up a few hundred dollars short). The ability to instantly reverse everything for just a flash or forever is fantastic. Kicking every thing down to half speed/octave down is much more useful than I thought - it gives a whole new palette of texture to work with. I love the low-res sound quality at half speed, too. The grittier slow loop sounds distinctly different than the live guitar I play over the loop, also something I thought only the EH 16 would give me. The bummer is that you have to STOP the loop to change speeds. It takes only a second, but it can be a real interruption. The JamGuy doesn't do these things at all, so I'm super-happy! When I got home last night my first loop on the Rang was one of the best I've done in five years or so of live looping! The simplicity of this pedal and size - it fits in my pedalboard case - is perfect for spontaneous jamming and performance. There have been many instances where I didn't want to lug a rack unit (JamMan) with me to a jam. I'm a pedals guy, primarily. Carrying pedalboard AND rack can be a bit much. This is a pretty strong issue for me. Will I get rid of the JamMan? No way! Only as a trade toward an EDP. The JamDude sounds great, even with the input seriously overloaded. Everything Lexicon sounds really good. Midi sync is very cool, I like making cheap drum machines try to follow my loops! You also get a studio quality digital delay if your not looping while mixing - that boy is always busy! The JamMan is a cleaner copyist - if you like glassy tones a lot of the time, you should definitely try a Boomerang before buying. But I think its sound is just right for most guitar situations. back to the music, -eric p. > > Hello everyone, > > > > First post to this fine list. I'm looking for some opinions on the > > Boomerang Phrase Sampler, especially in regards to its features and ease > > of use. Also any comparison to other loopers, like the JamMan or > > Digital Echoplex, would be appreciated. I'm considering this product > > becasue it would be easier on the pocket-book and also has a built-in > > foot controller. > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > > Pat Moore > > From ???@??? Fri Jul 24 01:39:28 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA13959; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 16:09:27 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 16:09:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35B7174C.57EDC014@nyfac.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 11:58:20 +0100 From: tdbajus Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com Organization: New York Film and Animation Inc / 3DV X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Tapped delay pedals? References: <000501bdb645$ee5fdb20$c5b854ce@asint.asisoftware.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kK8OH2.0.AK3.iVvjr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/657 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Anybody know if these exist as a floor pedal? tdb From ???@??? Thu Jul 23 10:40:09 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id JAA30882; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 09:03:23 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 09:03:23 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <002b01bdb638$a7ddd9c0$0d01a8c0@Remote> From: "Steve Lauder" To: Subject: Re: Born Again Looper Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 13:51:14 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"JzWVb2.0.6U7.VGpjr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/651 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Paolo I can't thank you enough for the information you posted. That's exactly the start that I was after. I simply cannot wait to start spending my hard earned cash on some of this gear! Sounds fantastic! I'll give you a progress report as I get, and get into the new gear. Again, many thanks. Steven Lauder From ???@??? Thu Jul 23 10:40:43 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id KAA06778; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 10:28:11 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 10:28:11 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <000501bdb645$ee5fdb20$c5b854ce@asint.asisoftware.com> From: Mark@asisoftware.com (Mark Kata) To: "Loopers Delight" Subject: Korg AM8000R & DL8000R Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 10:26:50 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"zY55W1.0.tZ1.jVqjr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/652 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Has anyone tried these new units? The reviews in the August 1998 issue of Guitar Player were pretty complimentary. The AM8000R is an "ambience multi-effects processor." And the DL8000R is a "digital multi tap delay." Thanks, Mark Kata Mark@asisoftware.com From ???@??? Thu Jul 23 10:40:45 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id KAA07346; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 10:32:10 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 10:32:10 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: PJBMHB@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 10:28:22 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Born Again Looper Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Resent-Message-ID: <"ptCkk.0.hj1.bZqjr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/653 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Go cat go!! =-0 PJ From ???@??? Fri Jul 24 01:40:10 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id SAA29884; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 18:10:13 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 18:10:13 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: breakz@pop.hom.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 17:13:50 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: breakz@hom.net (David Ferguson) Subject: Re: Tapped delay pedals? Resent-Message-ID: <"SSigv1.0.zC7.eGxjr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/665 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com The Boss DD-5 Digital Delay pedal has an input for a tap pedal, but I have used trigger\gate outs from drum boxes and such to sync. Your milage may vary. It is a neat pedal with a reverse effect, very limited but useful looping, as well as run of the mill delays. Daniel From ???@??? Fri Jul 24 01:39:39 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA21135; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 17:03:11 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 17:03:11 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 13:55:49 -0700 Message-ID: <00102480.----@wj.com> From: Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle) Subject: Re: Tapped delay pedals? To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, tdbajus Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"e_K7_.0.w35.7Iwjr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/658 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com The Boss DD-5 has some tap modes... I believe that one of the new Korg floor peds has some as well. Can someone confirm this and possibly review these features for us? -miko ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Tapped delay pedals? Author: tdbajus at INTERNET Date: 7/23/98 11:58 AM Anybody know if these exist as a floor pedal? tdb From ???@??? Fri Jul 24 01:39:43 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA22548; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 17:12:46 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 17:12:46 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: PJBMHB@aol.com Message-ID: <718bd2e8.35b7a63f@aol.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 17:08:14 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Tapped delay pedals? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Resent-Message-ID: <"PQ54O3.0.8Q5.uQwjr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/659 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com the zoom 508 has a tap feature as well and 4 seconds of sampling and a treble roll-off to make it sound more analog or true to life. i love this thing!! =-) PJ From ???@??? Fri Jul 24 01:39:45 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA23231; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 17:17:03 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 17:17:03 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35B7A780.3AB69793@Pirnie.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 17:13:36 -0400 From: "Lee Wordsman" Reply-To: Lwordsman@pirnie.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Tapped delay pedals? References: <718bd2e8.35b7a63f@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"SDA332.0.sb5.GVwjr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/660 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com The zoom's tap doesn't really work without the expression pedal from what I recall from my brief flirtation with it. I think that the DOD DFX98 has a tap feature but I'm not certain that it has ever been released for sale. PJBMHB@aol.com wrote: > > the zoom 508 has a tap feature as well and 4 seconds of sampling and a treble > roll-off to make it sound more analog or true to life. i love this thing!! =-) > PJ From ???@??? Fri Jul 24 01:39:47 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA24266; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 17:25:47 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 17:25:47 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35B7A80A.D60DB9A3@Pirnie.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 17:15:54 -0400 From: "Lee Wordsman" Reply-To: Lwordsman@pirnie.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Tapped delay pedals? References: <718bd2e8.35b7a63f@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ePDvp3.0.kr5.Ndwjr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/661 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com One other point/question. Can you use the seamless patch change on the zoom to change from a 4 second delay on hold to a three second delay (with say 99% feedback) so that you have two loops of different length evolving against each other? That was one idea I had after I returned the Zoom. PJBMHB@aol.com wrote: > > the zoom 508 has a tap feature as well and 4 seconds of sampling and a treble > roll-off to make it sound more analog or true to life. i love this thing!! =-) > PJ From ???@??? Fri Jul 24 01:39:51 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA25098; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 17:32:00 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 17:32:00 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 14:24:51 -0700 Message-ID: <001024E3.----@wj.com> From: Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle) Subject: Re[2]: Tapped delay pedals? To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"qEyaQ2.0.F36.Gjwjr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/662 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I've been looking for the FX98 as well and it seems to be nowhere! I also regularly look for the FX94 and can't find it as well. Am I missing something? Help! I want one of these pedals. -miko ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Tapped delay pedals? Author: "Lee Wordsman" at INTERNET Date: 7/23/98 5:13 PM The zoom's tap doesn't really work without the expression pedal from what I recall from my brief flirtation with it. I think that the DOD DFX98 has a tap feature but I'm not certain that it has ever been released for sale. PJBMHB@aol.com wrote: > > the zoom 508 has a tap feature as well and 4 seconds of sampling and a treble > roll-off to make it sound more analog or true to life. i love this thing!! =-) > PJ From ???@??? Fri Jul 24 01:39:56 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA26313; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 17:41:48 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 17:41:48 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: PJBMHB@aol.com Message-ID: <8c194776.35b7ad24@aol.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 17:37:39 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re[2]: Tapped delay pedals? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Resent-Message-ID: <"OULwX.0.IL6.Hswjr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/663 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com i have seen the 94 kicking around but have yet to spot the elusive 98. has anyone seen, with their very own peepers, a real-live 98? i think they might be dod's version of the elusive snipe. =-) PJ From ???@??? Fri Jul 24 01:40:06 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA28264; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 17:57:12 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 17:57:12 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: "Claude Lassonde" To: Subject: Echoplex??? Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 17:53:42 -0400 Message-ID: <001e01bdb684$5b90da80$b3c8c80a@classonde.psbgm.qc.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <199807232009.QAA14038@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"PhwKK3.0.Mp6.p4xjr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/664 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I am looking to buy an Oberheim Echoplex fully loaded with memory, footswitch and latest LoopIII V. 5 software. I am living in Montreal. I have made deposit to music stores like Steeve, Italmelodie etc· I have waited for months to finally get a no answer, we cannot get any Oberheim Echoplex and take your money back! · Is there a way to get my hand on such a unit? Is Oberheim still making those units? Who is reseller for it? I heard that it was now out of the market and impossible to get anymore service for it, is that true? I come it is still advertize on the Net if it is impossible to buy? Thanks in advance, Claude Lassonde 2325, boulevard Keller Saint-Laurent (QuŽbec) Canada H4K 2G2 (514) 332-0258 Email Claude Lassonde : classonde@psbgm.qc.ca Web : http://members.tripod.com/~Lassonde From ???@??? Fri Jul 24 01:40:14 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id SAA31686; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 18:25:13 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 18:25:13 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35B7B75E.6C99@dmans.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 17:21:18 -0500 From: "Mikell D. Nelson" Reply-To: mnelson@dmans.com Organization: Boomerang Musical Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Boomerang References: <991749f0.35b6237c@aol.com> <35B639F5.7D93@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"nCTK2.0.ag7.EVxjr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/666 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com scott kungha drengsen wrote: > > Yes,the length of the loop is set with the 1st "recording".After that > the number of bars is set to that length.So I can't have 4,8, and 24 > bar(for example)loops going at the same time.And,I'm starting to think > this way... Hi Scott, Sure you can. Record the 24 bar part first, then lay down the 8 bar and finally the 4 bar. Or record the 4 bar part 6 times as the basic loop, then add the other parts. I do this sort of thing all the time. Something related that's really cool is to choose two time signatures and record two loops, one in each time. The only trick is that the loops must have the same number of beats. For example record 5 measures of a 4/4 lick (one measure long lick); then stack on 4 measures of a 5/4 lick (again a one measure long lick). The polyrythmn effect is cool. 3 measures of 4/4 and 4 measures of 3/4, 7 measures of 3/8 with 3 measures of 7/8, etc. Motley a.k.a Mike Nelson, owner Boomerang Musical Products PO Box 541595 Dallas, TX 75354-1595 Tel 800-530-4699 (outside USA, 214-340-6913) Fax 214-343-1038 email mnelson@dmans.com web page http://www.boomerangmusic.com From ???@??? Fri Jul 24 01:40:19 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id SAA02517; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 18:49:56 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 18:49:56 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Nemoguitt@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 18:35:53 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Boomerang Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"UGQnf3.0.U5.Uixjr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/667 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 7/22/98 6:08:12 PM Mid-Atlantic Daylight Time, kungha@earthlink.net writes: << So I can't have 4,8, and 24 bar(for example)loops going at the same time.And,I'm starting to think this way... >> what if you start with the longest loop first?.........michael From ???@??? Fri Jul 24 01:40:54 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id AAA03515; Fri, 24 Jul 1998 00:13:33 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 00:13:33 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 00:10:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Adam Levin X-Sender: alevin@ari.ari.net To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Tapped delay pedals? In-Reply-To: <718bd2e8.35b7a63f@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"QN2AY2.0.Tp.Vc0kr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/669 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com On Thu, 23 Jul 1998 PJBMHB@aol.com wrote: > the zoom 508 has a tap feature as well and 4 seconds of sampling and a treble > roll-off to make it sound more analog or true to life. i love this thing!! =-) The 508 'tis a nifty thing. I actually have one that's about 6 months old that I've just taken out of active service due to new purchases and consolidation of my rack/pedal setup (With a G-Force, Echoplex and Time Machine, I think I have enough loop/delay toys!). Will sell for $80 ppd (originally paid $120+tax) and include a dreaded wall wart (they usually charge another $12-$20). -Adam --- "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue, out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one becomes a Hearer." - Chandrakirti T h e D a r k A e t h e r P r o j e c t http://www.darkaether.net/ From ???@??? Fri Jul 24 10:19:21 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id GAA22042; Fri, 24 Jul 1998 06:41:00 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 06:41:00 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: PJBMHB@aol.com Message-ID: <47c4b722.35b8643c@aol.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 06:38:51 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Tapped delay pedals? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Resent-Message-ID: <"J1k6O3.0.wL5.nH6kr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/670 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com 120.oo is kind of steep for a zoom. they should be about 90-100 bucks new. me thinks you been taken. =-( PJ From ???@??? Fri Jul 24 10:19:29 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id KAA00794; Fri, 24 Jul 1998 10:22:16 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 10:22:16 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35B898F4.ACFA750D@intcpi.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 10:23:48 -0400 From: "John Price" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Tapped delay pedals? References: <718bd2e8.35b7a63f@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5FhZz1.0.d8.eW9kr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/671 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com me too. not bad for $99.00 JP PJBMHB@aol.com wrote: > the zoom 508 has a tap feature as well and 4 seconds of sampling and a treble > roll-off to make it sound more analog or true to life. i love this thing!! =-) > PJ From ???@??? Fri Jul 24 22:55:50 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA24309; Fri, 24 Jul 1998 14:41:07 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 14:41:07 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980724183146.007074d4@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 11:31:46 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Boomerang vs Echoplex Resent-Message-ID: <"0CX-F2.0.ds5.vIDkr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/674 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 07:56 PM 7/24/98 +0200, you wrote: >As you all addicted to the Jamman and creating the soundworld with cycles >of electronic and acoustic elements, I would like to know more specifics on >the Echoplex and Boomerang. If you check the Looper's Delight web site, you will find a lot more info on both of these. It's in the Tools of the Trade section: http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tools/tools.html You will also find links to their manufacturer's web pages. (Echoplex Digital Pro is made by Oberheim, Boomerang is made by Boomerang Musical Products.) >Can anybody fill me in by which companies they're being made, are they 19", >price and are they available in Europe with the adjustment of the power >supply ? Echoplex is a 19" 1-space rack, and has a footpedal that goes with it if you want, or can be controlled by midi. Boomerang is a footpedal. I don't know exactly the Boomerang's power supply situation, but the Echoplex has an internal supply with a switch on the back to convert between 110V/220V. Should work fine anywhere in the world. (I designed the power supply for that purpose. :-) ) I think Echoplex is still a little hard to get in europe, but quite a few manage anyway. Oberheim has said that they will have them shipping regularly there by september. I don't know what the price is there. In the US it is around $700 usually. (is that right? haven't checked in a while...) kim _________________________________________________________ Kim Flint, MTS kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research 408-752-9284 http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Fri Jul 24 22:57:15 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id XAB04918; Fri, 24 Jul 1998 23:33:36 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 23:33:36 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 20:30:38 -0700 (PDT) From: N To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Roland SP-808 In-Reply-To: <199807240202.KAA01446@burritos.skyinet.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"oll3g3.0.y71.E6Lkr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/679 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com how is the sound quality in comparison to the VS880? (While I've read the specs, which are better than, it also uses some sort of data compression.) N On Fri, 24 Jul 1998, Mitch Amurao wrote: > I just picked up my SP-808 a few days ago. the learning curve is slightly > high.. with some of the operating system similar to that of the VS880. > One thing i'm not too happy about though is that polyphony is set to 4 > stereo smaples only. there are workarounds though. From ???@??? Sun Jul 26 10:25:21 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id CAA30216; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 02:21:48 -0400 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 02:21:48 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Kevan Staples To: "Claude Lassonde" Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 02:19:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Echoplex??? Message-ID: References: <001e01bdb684$5b90da80$b3c8c80a@classonde.psbgm.qc.ca> Organization: Magic Online / TotalNet Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-ID: X-Gateway: NASTA Gate 2.0 for FirstClass(R) Resent-Message-ID: <"TkM5u1.0.qL7.xgikr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/681 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com classonde@psbgm.qc.ca ("Claude Lassonde"),Internet writes: >I am living in Montreal. I have made deposit to music stores like Steeve, >Italmelodie etc… I have waited for months to finally get a no answer, we >cannot get any Oberheim Echoplex and take your money back! … >Is there a way to get my hand on such a unit? >Is Oberheim still making those units? >Who is reseller for it? Dear Claude I just bought two Oberheim Digital Echoplex Pros from Long and McQuade here in Toronto. I suggest calling them. Kevan From ???@??? Tue Jul 28 18:14:34 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA27812; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 17:49:47 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 17:49:47 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: breakz@pop.hom.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 16:51:57 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: breakz@hom.net (David Ferguson) Subject: Looping Questions, easy answers for Resent-Message-ID: <"1bd6k2.0.Xg6.JRalr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/698 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >1. Is there an ideal EQ setting for looping? no >2. How short can a loop be? milliseconds >3. Is it possible to loop without technology? no >4. Will another company buy the rights from Lexicon and produce a Super >Vortex? no >5. Do keyboardists who loop get the same tactile feedback as guitarists who >loop? yes >6. Can looping be done with another effect instead of a digital delay, tape >delay or MIDI sequencer? analog delays >7. How does a DJ get tempos to match when using samples from various >sources? they count and match up BPMs of source material >8. Will there ever be a "Triple Trio" with Primus joining King Crimson? I hope not >9. How often do you create a loop without listening to it? How often is it >successful? turn down your amp, success always depends on your talent level >10. So far, looping uses the following for source material: instruments, >voices, noises and pre-recorded material. What other source materials are >there? literally "nothing"!!! whew, Daniel From ???@??? Tue Jul 28 10:18:40 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA14181; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 11:33:05 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 11:33:05 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Javier Miranda V." To: "Loopers' Delight" Subject: Test Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 08:31:13 -0700 Message-ID: <000001bdba3c$c14e9a40$9101d1d1@electra> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01BDBA02.14EFC240" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"RZ8sG.0.AK3.WwUlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/684 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com
Anybody out there?
 
From ???@??? Tue Jul 28 10:49:29 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA30858; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 13:45:21 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 13:45:21 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: "Collins" To: Subject: Re: The Feedback Machine story Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 13:42:00 -0400 Message-ID: <01bdba4f$063ebec0$221cbfa8@0QHC6SIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"_e0as1.0.wT7.psWlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/685 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com David, I would like to know if you happen to know a fellow named Jeff Stayton? He does a feedbacked guitar piece in his "Fear of Open Spaces" cassette. The sound is amazing, and i would like to know if perhaps he got that off of you. I would also like to know if i could get a schematic of what you are speaking of? For I am also a guitar manipulator who is studying at the time the possibilities of prepared guitar. I would appreciate any info you can get my way. By the way, thanks for being on this list of proud Loopers. Jeff Collins collinsclan@sprintmail.com -----Original Message----- From: David Myers To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Monday, July 27, 1998 5:04 PM Subject: The Feedback Machine story >Hey there, loopers. Got a bit long-winded in an email reply concerning my >noisemaking, and thought it might be of interest to some of you.... > >>Hi! >> Have you been recording any works recently using the various feedback >>machines? I am interested in exploring such >>"guided chaos" music...have you published any device construction >>tips/theories? > > >Hello John. Thanks for the interest; I'm curious to know how you found me. >After a hiatus of about five years, I have indeed begun to record some new >Feedback Music. Very far from having new material ready for release, >though I am about done with new sound material to send to Asmus Tietchens >for his use in a third collaborative project. > >There was an article I wrote for Chris Cutler's "Quarterly" many years ago, >later reprinted in Experimental Musical Instruments. The article is still >available in ReR Quarterly Vol. 2 No.3, from ReR Recommended, 79 Beulah >Road, Thornton Heath, Surrey, CR7 8JG, UK. An LP and book is 11.00 pounds >sterling. Their newest catalog is an absolute must if you have any >interest in this sort of music. Unfortunately I myself do not have a copy >of the article (just like me--man, do I burn them bridges sometimes!). > >Anyway, the essence of the "Feedback Machines" is simple enough. Back >when, I used four delay units (mostly Digitech 7.6 sec "Time Machines") >which were sent to four mixer channels. Each channel had four effects send >buses, each of which fed one delay input; my mixer was custom built, but it >needn't be. I call it a "Feedback Matrix": > > 0-----0-----0-----X----> send 4 to DDL 4 input > I I I I > I I I I > 0-----0-----X-----0----> send 3 to DDL 3 input > I I I I > I I I I > 0-----X-----0-----0----> send 2 to DDL 2 input > I I I I > I I I I > X-----0-----0-----0----> send 1 to DDL 1 input > I I I I > DDL1 DDL2 DDL3 DDL4 > >The "0"s are effect send knobs; the "X"s are too, but they show knobs that >control a DDL's feeding back into itself. Get it? You want DDLs or other >effects units which have a lot of manual control--i.e., knobs. Lexicon >LXPs are cool if you have one or more MRCs to get fader control of the >parameters. Having at least one delay capable of 4-plus seconds and some >sort of "hold" function is really valuable, to trap the feedback as either >static or evolving loops. > >So, the whole setup is "played" as an instrument. The trick is mostly in >inventing and learning your own techniques; have the effects units and >mixer as close to each other as possible, and start twisting knobs! At the >moment, I've built a 6X6 matrix and use 2 Lexicon Vortexes (great for this >application!), a Reflex, the new MPX-100, and a few pedal effects. More >knobs would be better, but with the 6X6 grid and "variation" knobs on the >units, there's a real wealth of territory to explore. I suggest picking up >two or three old DDLs like Deltalab Effectrons or the Digitechs; pretty >cheap nowadays. The biggest hangup may be getting a mixer with more than >two effects sends, though you can do pretty much with even two. I've >always built my simple mixers based on Craig Anderton's ancient book >"Electronic Projects For Musicians". But a commercial mixer has its >advantages, like EQ on each channel. You'll find EQ in the loops is really >useful; I use a PAIA (Anderton)-designed parametric. Great unit! Anyway, >if you're in the green, a used Mackie 1604 would be cool, at about $500; >four sends (kind of six, actually) fill the bill nicely. > >Hope this helps. Check out the article if you can. Let me know what >develops? Computer stuff is cool, but I swear by this kind of approach >because it really "lives", and there's nothing like direct and immediate >control of yer sounds.... > >Regards, DM > > > From ???@??? Tue Jul 28 18:13:38 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA06470; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 14:57:08 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 14:57:08 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980728184734.006d4dbc@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 11:47:34 -0700 To: , "Loopers' Delight" From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Test Resent-Message-ID: <"xeLpV1.0.mT1.yvXlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/686 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 08:31 AM 7/28/98 -0700, Javier Miranda V. wrote: >Anybody out there? sure is quiet, eh? If you're feeling lonely without enough Looper talk, you could always try posting something to spark up a conversation.....:-) kim _________________________________________________________ Kim Flint, MTS kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research 408-752-9284 http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Tue Jul 28 18:13:52 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA11441; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 15:38:21 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 15:38:21 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <002301bdba5c$778367e0$c5b854ce@mark.asisoftware.com> From: Mark@asisoftware.com (Mark Kata) To: "Loopers Delight" Subject: Stupid Looping Questions Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 15:18:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"ttMEQ2.0.Gl2.mWYlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/687 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Since there haven't been many posts lately, I thought I'd incite some conversation with a list of stupid looping questions. They're strictly the product of stream of consciousness writing, so don't blame me if they're stupid! Select your topic and lets start talking! 1. Is there an ideal EQ setting for looping? 2. How short can a loop be? 3. Is it possible to loop without technology? 4. Will another company buy the rights from Lexicon and produce a Super Vortex? 5. Do keyboardists who loop get the same tactile feedback as guitarists who loop? 6. Can looping be done with another effect instead of a digital delay, tape delay or MIDI sequencer? 7. How does a DJ get tempos to match when using samples from various sources? 8. Will there ever be a "Triple Trio" with Primus joining King Crimson? 9. How often do you create a loop without listening to it? How often is it successful? 10. So far, looping uses the following for source material: instruments, voices, noises and pre-recorded material. What other source materials are there? Mark Kata Mark@asisoftware.com From ???@??? Tue Jul 28 18:14:00 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA15092; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 16:04:47 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 16:04:47 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <19980728194600.14433.rocketmail@send1a.yahoomail.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 12:46:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Randy Jones Subject: Re: Roland Guitar Synth alert To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"QuZbL.0.qb3.IvYlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/691 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hi, If I didn't already have one of these I'd pay $500 for it. It is a joy to play. The fuzz alone is great for annoying EVERYONE! http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=22640866 Randy Jones - _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From ???@??? Tue Jul 28 18:14:01 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA15862; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 16:09:51 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 16:09:51 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980728200044.006cccd8@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 13:00:44 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Stupid Looping Questions Resent-Message-ID: <"S-2rX3.0.Eo3.G-Ylr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/692 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 03:18 PM 7/28/98 -0400, Mark Kata wrote: >2. How short can a loop be? theoretically, it would be 50 microseconds. At that length, the loop's repetition rate would be 20KHz, the edge of human hearing. Or some human's hearing anyway. In my case you'd have to get it down to about 16khz. I like making extremely short loops, where the repetition rate actually becomes an audible frequency. Usually the loop time is between 1 and 10ms. Feeding different source sounds into it has a cool effect. slightly longer loops are also fun, where the source sound is still recognizable, but it is extremely short. gives a nice texture. The multiply function on the echoplex is really handy here, since you can expand this micro loop and add a longer element over the top of it. Replace is also really useful, letting you keep the same rapid pulse of the short loop but change the sound instantly. >6. Can looping be done with another effect instead of a digital delay, tape >delay or MIDI sequencer? sampler? hard disk recorder? minidisk? >7. How does a DJ get tempos to match when using samples from various >sources? With turntables, it usually involves manipulating the speed knob and careful needle placement. I get the impression that it is harder than it looks.... >8. Will there ever be a "Triple Trio" with Primus joining King Crimson? With Brain in Primus now, I'd more expect them to hook up with Laswell, Bootsy, and the Invisibl Skratch Piklz. Of course, Les and Ler will probably bring in Waylon Jennings..... >10. So far, looping uses the following for source material: instruments, >voices, noises and pre-recorded material. What other source materials are >there? I like David Meyer's approach of using the loop device as it's own source, by feeding it's output back to it's input. Lots 'o fun, especially when you have eq's and distortions in the feedback path. kim _________________________________________________________ Kim Flint, MTS kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research 408-752-9284 http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Tue Jul 28 18:14:08 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA18585; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 16:28:43 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 16:28:43 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: PJBMHB@aol.com Message-ID: <8ef7e5a2.35be33a6@aol.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 16:25:09 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: non looping pining for lost band member post! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Resent-Message-ID: <"Ep5Xm2.0._S4.fFZlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/693 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com i miss herb, i miss herb!! From ???@??? Tue Jul 28 18:14:20 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA20311; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 16:46:22 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 16:46:22 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980728203714.006e0138@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 13:37:14 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: non looping pining for lost band member post! Resent-Message-ID: <"-6PBB2.0.sv4.WWZlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/694 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 04:25 PM 7/28/98 EDT, PJBMHB@aol.com wrote: >i miss herb, i miss herb!! me too, that guy's one of the best drummers around in the past 10 years! I hope he turns up in some new project soon... kim _________________________________________________________ Kim Flint, MTS kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research 408-752-9284 http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Tue Jul 28 18:14:24 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA23267; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 17:12:44 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 17:12:44 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rodan.syr.edu: msottila owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 17:09:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Sottilaro X-Sender: msottila@rodan.syr.edu To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: MIDI Guitar for Sale/no loop content In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19980723183129.0070d11c@pop.chromatic.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"l1E2r3.0.yb5.ruZlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/695 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hey, I've got an Ibanez MIDI Guitar that I'd like to sell. It's in perfect condition and it tracks pretty well. It's got no tone generation of it's own, but it had 2 MIDI out's and a foot controller to switch configs. Pretty cool. I'd like to get $400 or so for it + shipping. I've got all the documentation. Mark. From ???@??? Tue Jul 28 18:14:33 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA27152; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 17:46:10 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 17:46:10 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199807282143.XAA18521@mb05.swip.net> From: "Mattias Ribbing" To: Subject: New Herb project (involves looping) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 23:32:45 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"His0W.0.IZ6.XOalr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/697 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hellow, I found this on www.artist-shop.com, it sure sound interesting. "To be released at the end of July! Attention Deficit/Attention Deficit ....CD $13.99 Alex Skolnick: electric and acoustic guitars Tim "Herb" Alexander: drums and percussion Michael Manring: four, six and ten string basses, loops Call it mad scientist rock, or call it simply mad. Whatever it is, Attention Deficit have entered the lab and blown it up, reaching right into the atom heart mother of improvisational mondo rock, combining their trinity of disparate elements, and letting new sonic monsters find life.Ę The record born is an exotic amalgam of bass, guitar and drums, a necessary far-flung exploration that sprung naturally and spontaneously from the collective mindmeld of three diverse and divergent talents, guitarist Alex Skolnick, drummer Tim ãHerbä Alexander, and bassist Michael Manring." ---------- > FrŒn: Kim Flint > Till: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > €mne: Re: non looping pining for lost band member post! > Datum: den 28 juli 1998 22:37 > > At 04:25 PM 7/28/98 EDT, PJBMHB@aol.com wrote: > >i miss herb, i miss herb!! > > me too, that guy's one of the best drummers around in the past 10 years! I > hope he turns up in some new project soon... > > kim > _________________________________________________________ > Kim Flint, MTS kflint@chromatic.com > Chromatic Research 408-752-9284 > http://www.chromatic.com > From ???@??? Tue Jul 28 18:14:29 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA26589; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 17:41:52 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 17:41:52 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Storypod@aol.com Message-ID: <49a31f41.35be44c9@aol.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 17:38:16 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Extra EDP footpedal Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Resent-Message-ID: <"E-rwV1.0.TQ6.WKalr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/696 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hello people, Re: The European looper looking for an Echoplex. I've got an extra (new) footpedal for the Digital Pro would be happy to sell at a good price. Let me know... Tim (storypod@aol.com) From ???@??? Tue Jul 28 18:14:36 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA28390; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 17:54:31 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 17:54:31 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Crossedout@aol.com Message-ID: <45b74d27.35be47c5@aol.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 17:50:59 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Stupid Looping Questions... and $0.02 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Resent-Message-ID: <"o8Bi71.0.Hu6.KWalr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/700 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 98-07-28 16:09:55 EDT, you write: << >7. How does a DJ get tempos to match when using samples from various >sources? With turntables, it usually involves manipulating the speed knob and careful needle placement. I get the impression that it is harder than it looks....>> Actually, I've been told by a couple of people who were working with non-dj turntables and trying to match tempos with them that getting a good pair of Technics with the pitch control and fast startup made the process a whole lot easier... can't wait until I find a cheap pair.... >10. So far, looping uses the following for source material: instruments, >voices, noises and pre-recorded material. What other source materials are >there? I like David Meyer's approach of using the loop device as it's own source, by feeding it's output back to it's input. Lots 'o fun, especially when you have eq's and distortions in the feedback path. >> I don't know if anyone on the list is familiar with a Japanese artist named Merzbow, he's been doing some really crazy noise stuff for years by using effects and a closed-feedback loop mixer.... it's really harsh, but often very beautiful. thus ends my two cents.... - Bill Crossedout@aol.com From ???@??? Tue Jul 28 18:14:53 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA04274; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 19:27:56 -0400 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 19:27:56 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35BE533E.6C2534E6@intcpi.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 18:39:59 -0400 From: "John Price" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Stupid Looping Questions... and $0.02 References: <45b74d27.35be47c5@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"juUuA2.0.S-._tblr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/701 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Merzbow is way cool. His music for Bondage is splendid, tedious, profane ( in its raw and nothing else other than noise approach ). I typically shy away from such stuff "avant noisey stuff " cause it usually sounds the same but something was happening in a big way with Merzbow. Anyone have any clue as to what types of equip. Merzbow used ?? Like is doin everything from a sampler or is he actually playing that industrial sounding clangs and clings & is there a technique to his stuff ??? I cant find any Merzbow stuff in record shops either. Good stuff tho. Regards, JP Crossedout@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 98-07-28 16:09:55 EDT, you write: > > << >7. How does a DJ get tempos to match when using samples from various > >sources? > > With turntables, it usually involves manipulating the speed knob and careful > needle placement. I get the impression that it is harder than it looks....>> > > Actually, I've been told by a couple of people who were working with non-dj > turntables and trying to match tempos with them that getting a good pair of > Technics with the pitch control and fast startup made the process a whole lot > easier... can't wait until I find a cheap pair.... > > >10. So far, looping uses the following for source material: instruments, > >voices, noises and pre-recorded material. What other source materials are > >there? > > I like David Meyer's approach of using the loop device as it's own source, > by feeding it's output back to it's input. Lots 'o fun, especially when you > have eq's and distortions in the feedback path. > >> > > I don't know if anyone on the list is familiar with a Japanese artist named > Merzbow, he's been doing some really crazy noise stuff for years by using > effects and a closed-feedback loop mixer.... it's really harsh, but often very > beautiful. > > thus ends my two cents.... > > - Bill > Crossedout@aol.com From ???@??? Wed Jul 29 01:12:24 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id DAA14404; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 03:14:02 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 03:14:02 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 01:25:06 -0400 (EDT) From: David Talento X-Sender: legion@unix01 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Roland Guitar Synth alert In-Reply-To: <19980728194600.14433.rocketmail@send1a.yahoomail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"x4wGQ.0.ws1.o9hlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/705 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com On Tue, 28 Jul 1998, Randy Jones wrote: > Hi, > If I didn't already have one of these I'd pay $500 for it. It is a joy > to play. The fuzz alone is great for annoying EVERYONE! > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=22640866 A word to the wise. I think this is the second time this guy has posted this item and if you read the text he constantly mentions how "it won't go for cheap" etc etc. Plus $100 for shipping? Buyer beware... Also the guitar isn't a Roland issue is it? I only mention this because the external pickup models do not track as well as the built in units (which evidently track the best of any guitar synth). the only other guitar I've found that tracks well (not *great* but well) is the casio MG series (i have the MG510) which again has a built in pickup (in this case with a midi out built right in the guitar). Anyone else use one of these? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- HELP WANTED PRODUCTIONS - Http://www.voicenet.com/~legion "Bringing you the best in Organic Electronic music since we started..." Home of the Unusual Instrument and Recording Gallery with pictures and info of Tube recorders, Omnichords, weird guitars, Casios, and more. From ???@??? Tue Jul 28 21:52:54 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id AAA02290; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 00:38:22 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 00:38:22 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: dmgraph@mail.bway.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <35BE533E.6C2534E6@intcpi.com> References: <45b74d27.35be47c5@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 00:36:39 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: David Myers Subject: Re: Stupid Looping Questions... and $0.02 Resent-Message-ID: <"Jo8013.0.GT.rQglr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/703 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >Anyone have any clue as to what types of equip. Merzbow used ?? Like is doin >everything from a sampler or is he actually playing that industrial sounding >clangs and clings & is there a technique to his stuff ??? >I cant find any Merzbow stuff in record shops either. Good stuff tho. > >Regards, >JP This info is stale, but.... He and I toyed with a collaborative effort once, and I saw him perform in NYC a few years ago. Things may have changed, but at that time his setup was strictly ultra lo-tech, lotsa cheap boxes and massively overdriven amps, power tools, etc. I would really be surprised to hear that he's now using sophisticated stuff like "sampling". Anyone know otherwise? David Myers From ???@??? Tue Jul 28 21:52:59 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id AAA03862; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 00:52:28 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 00:52:28 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: dmgraph@mail.bway.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <01bdba4f$063ebec0$221cbfa8@0QHC6SIA> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 00:50:35 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: David Myers Subject: Re: The Feedback Machine story Resent-Message-ID: <"YBID8.0.sq.udglr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/704 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Don't know of Jeff, but must say that my brand of feedback is definitely a different animal than any sort of guitar feedback. I speak from experience, since I also love guitar and have fooled with it a lot. A great device for guitar feedback is a "Sustainiac", which maybe you are familiar with; it taps the git output, amps it up, and feeds a transducer which vibrates the axe physically. At least that's how the old ones worked. Very effective. I even have one which I've thought about selling since I don't use guitar much at all anymore. I also assume you have used an Ebow--to me, an essential tool for the guitar. Schematics, no--sorry. I've always flown by the seat of my pants, often doing crude sketches for the job and then tossing them. But honestly, with the info I posted and Anderton's book, any of the things I've done can be accomplished. The book's old and a bit rudimentary, but I suggest getting it. It's still out there.... DM >David, >I would like to know if you happen to know a fellow named Jeff Stayton? He >does a feedbacked guitar piece in his "Fear of Open Spaces" cassette. The >sound is amazing, and i would like to know if perhaps he got that off of >you. >I would also like to know if i could get a schematic of what you are >speaking of? For I am also a guitar manipulator who is studying at the time >the possibilities of prepared guitar. >I would appreciate any info you can get my way. By the way, thanks for being >on this list of proud Loopers. >Jeff Collins >collinsclan@sprintmail.com From ???@??? Wed Jul 29 01:12:34 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id DAA16320; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 03:47:55 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 03:47:55 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35BEBCD2.F0FAAF5C@texas.net> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 01:10:32 -0500 From: Bobdog Catlin Reply-To: psbuddha@texas.net Organization: Pseudo Buddha/Doghouse Ent. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: The Feedback Machine story, & other stuff References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"l4Rb82.0.zV2.Jphlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/706 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com hello DM. this is bobdog here, and i would be interested in that sustainiac. what would you like to get for it? please email me at: psbuddha@texas.net is this anything like a floyd rose sustainer pick-up? i have one of these, but i need to get a wiring diagram; this one came into my store out of a guitar & i have no clue how to make it work. i'm also looking for a hohner professional gt3 steinberger copy. anyone help me w/these silly things? thanx!!!!!!! From ???@??? Wed Jul 29 10:25:23 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id EAA17088; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 04:01:32 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 04:01:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Javier Miranda V." To: "Loopers' Delight" Subject: RE: Test Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 23:24:32 -0700 Message-ID: <000501bdbab9$8cb91da0$96c3efd1@electra> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19980728184734.006d4dbc@pop.chromatic.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"Qlp_h1.0.5h2.b0ilr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/707 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I'd like to thank everybody who assured me that I am not alone here in this cyberocean. My ISP turned off the e-mail servers for the weekend and when it came back there was no Looper e-mail. I thought the Looper ISP had screwed with Kim yet again. I gotta tell you, I thought it was hilarious the way you all made fun of my question "Anybody out there?" I also found out tonight that my cable is on the fritz as well; I just hope they don't turn off my lights too. OK -- spark a conversation. This is not so easy, Kim. I've found that it's very easy to talk about non-looping material, heretical though it may be. I would just like to say I can't get my new soundcard to send MIDI out to my drum machine and it's pissing me off. Apart from that, I'd like all loopers to stop working alone and start constructing loops with other loopers, real time. That's what I want to do. I want a percussionist, a keyboardist, and maybe another guitarist, and pipe it all into an Echoplex, and see where that goes. Everybody can choose to send to the loop or just improv on the side. If there's anybody in the Berkeley, Calif., area who thinks this would be interesting, write me. ... I'd also like to say that I love you all people Loopers. I really do miss you when there's no chatter filtering in through my modem. Keep looping and keep talking. You make my world (at least) a little better. Thanks! Javier Berkeley, Calif. | -----Original Message----- | From: Kim Flint [mailto:kflint@chromatic.com] | Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 1998 11:48 AM | To: gnominus@earthling.net; Loopers' Delight | Subject: Re: Test | | | At 08:31 AM 7/28/98 -0700, Javier Miranda V. wrote: | >Anybody out there? | | sure is quiet, eh? If you're feeling lonely without enough Looper | talk, you | could always try posting something to spark up a conversation.....:-) | | kim | _________________________________________________________ | Kim Flint, MTS kflint@chromatic.com | Chromatic Research 408-752-9284 | http://www.chromatic.com | | From ???@??? Wed Jul 29 10:25:31 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id EAA18943; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 04:35:20 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 04:35:20 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Javier Miranda V." To: Subject: RE: Roland Guitar Synth alert Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 23:47:58 -0700 Message-ID: <000701bdbabc$d2438420$96c3efd1@electra> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: <19980728194600.14433.rocketmail@send1a.yahoomail.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"_6Wj_1.0.C23.LMilr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/708 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Do you know if the GR-700 is also held in such esteem? That's what I got. I don't wanna feel jealous. | -----Original Message----- | From: Randy Jones [mailto:ranjones@yahoo.com] | Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 1998 12:46 PM | To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com | Subject: Re: Roland Guitar Synth alert | | | | Hi, | | If I didn't already have one of these I'd pay $500 for it. It is a joy | to play. The fuzz alone is great for annoying EVERYONE! | | http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=22640866 | | Randy Jones | | | | | | - | | _________________________________________________________ | DO YOU YAHOO!? | Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com | | From ???@??? Wed Jul 29 10:26:03 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id FAA20583; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 05:11:47 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 05:11:47 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35BECFD3.7A62@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 00:31:31 -0700 From: scott kungha drengsen X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: non looping pining for lost band member post! References: <2.2.32.19980728203714.006e0138@pop.chromatic.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"OBKjd.0.Fg3.Auilr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/709 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Have you heard the trio with Herb,Michael Manring,and Alex Skolnick From ???@??? Wed Jul 29 10:27:13 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id JAA01372; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:26:17 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:26:17 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199807291129.HAA24596@mail-out-1.tiac.net> Subject: Re: New Herb project (involves looping) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 98 07:35:52 -0000 x-sender: jdurant@pop.tiac.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: jdurant To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"jeRd03.0.oR6.0Xmlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/715 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Somewhere amongst the many posts I've not received, someone wrote: > >i miss herb, i miss herb!! And then, Mattias wrote: >The record born is an exotic amalgam of bass, guitar and drums, a necessary >far-flung exploration that sprung naturally and spontaneously from the >collective mindmeld of three diverse and divergent talents, guitarist Alex >Skolnick, drummer Tim ãHerbä Alexander, and bassist Michael Manring." So: another record not to miss, then, will be "The Book Of Flame," the long-awaited new Michael Manring CD. Tim plays on several cuts, and Michael has put together his finest, most outrageous, most compelling, whatever, CD. Yeah, I'm biased, but nevertheless it did get Mr. Torn to gush a bit as well when he mastered it. "The Book of Flame" will be released in September on Alchemy Records. Later, Jon Durant From ???@??? Wed Jul 29 10:26:23 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id HAA25536; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 07:15:27 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 07:15:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <35BEE994.E7F5B06F@sonic.net> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 02:21:25 -0700 From: Layne Russell X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gnominus@earthling.net CC: "Loopers' Delight" Subject: Re: long live loopers References: <000501bdbab9$8cb91da0$96c3efd1@electra> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ZsVsm3.0.JD5.Ykklr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/710 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Javier Miranda V. wrote: > [...] pipe it all into an Echoplex, and see where that goes. Everybody can choose to send > to the loop or just improv on the side. If there's anybody in the Berkeley, Calif., area who > thinks this would be interesting, write me. Javier, We're in Santa Rosa.... Layne & James From ???@??? Wed Jul 29 10:26:28 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id HAA25486; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 07:14:11 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 07:14:11 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 10:23:26 +0100 Message-ID: <0015A78C.1424@mail.bl.uk> From: David.Orton@mail.bl.uk (David Orton) Subject: Looping in London [UK]; and Tapped delay pedals? To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"ilUvS1.0.LE5.mlklr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/711 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hi For those in the London area: this Friday lunchtime (31st July, 12-2pm) I will be looping guitars etc in the Entrance Hall of the British Library's new building in Euston Road, NW1. It'll be pretty ambient - its a *library*, after all - but it'll give people a chance to see what the nation's spent its money on (the building - not me, obviously) Further details, a map and WAVs @ I don't know if anyone answered Lee Wordsman's Zoom 508 question: >Can you use the seamless patch change on the zoom to change from a 4 >second delay on hold to a three second delay (with say 99% feedback) so >that you have two loops of different length evolving against each >other? Briefly - "yes". The seamless patch change lets you decide whether you want a patch to fade out after 3 or so repeats, or use the infinity setting to have it continue on until you switch to a third patch. So a 4" against 3" is do-able. Another tapped delay feature not mentioned is the rhythmic patterns that can be set-up using the 4 or 6 tap options. Not a tap-tempo thing, one of those bouncing-off-the-walls-at-funny-angles jobs. Sort of thing the Edge used quite a bit at one stage, as I recall (though not with the 508). Cheers David From ???@??? Wed Jul 29 10:26:45 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id IAA28793; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 08:18:03 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 08:18:03 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35BEFA3B.E0C5D8C3@musician.org> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 03:32:30 -0700 From: eric potter Reply-To: eric@musician.org Organization: Hog Wild Music and Sound FX X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Roland Guitar Synth alert References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VKRW8.0.Fo5.Tellr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/712 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > A word to the wise. I think this is the second time this guy has posted > this item and if you read the text he constantly mentions how "it won't go > for cheap" etc etc. Plus $100 for shipping? Buyer beware... > Personally, when it comes to reading on the web, I tend to ignore any sentence that ends with more than one exclamation point. In this case, that's almost every sentence he wrote (except for the one that is a question where he so gently invoked but a single question mark). If someone were speaking to you in that style, you'd probably split, especially if it's someone trying to sell you something... -eric From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:31:30 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA00701; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:21:59 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:21:59 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: breakz@pop.hom.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:24:24 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: breakz@hom.net (David Ferguson) Subject: Re: My Future in Looping Resent-Message-ID: <"BtNFI1.0.J6.6Vslr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/740 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >Perhaps I should stop listening to anyone else's music. Perhaps I should >cloister myself with my gear and deny myself from playing anything I already >know. I think this might be just what you need. Let your music come from you and your gear. Daniel From ???@??? Wed Jul 29 10:27:17 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id JAA01369; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:26:15 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:26:15 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199807291136.HAA04833@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: Gig Plug : JFK's LSD UFO --7/30/98 NYC Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 07:32:18 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"hlUZf2.0.JV6.hbmlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/716 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com hey folks..... NYC area, anyone???? Jfk's LSd Ufo will be doing our first (of many, we hope!) gig at the Knitiing Factory: Thur Jul 30 -10pm - Knitting Factory The Alterknit Theatre 74 Leonard St 212-219-3006 only * $7.00 we are a duo doing loop-oriented insanity and torpitude to hear a realaudio snippet or three check out http://www.monmouth.com/~andre/jfk.htm hope to meet a looper or two out there !!!! bring tapes or Cds to trade or sell! andre' official PROJECT/OBJECT site http://www.jswd.net/projectobject [frank zappa tribute band i play guitar in] From ???@??? Wed Jul 29 10:27:27 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id JAA02548; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:40:17 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:40:17 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199807291139.HAA05542@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: Computers on Stage Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 07:35:58 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8JKY5.0.dj6.Ktmlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/719 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > Software synths are a great development, but again, I'm not sold on > dragging a computer to a gig to use them live. i love the (at this point in history) low tech Ensoniq Mirage for "computing on stage" - it's a very basic sequencer based sampler, but you can really do a LOT of stuff, and controll the results via the evil twin midi.... i've got a rack mounted one, and i do see these around pretty cheap. sort of an in between solution - a music-based computer, yet reliable as hell. andre' From ???@??? Wed Jul 29 10:27:25 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id JAA01748; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:30:06 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:30:06 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199807291148.HAA06868@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: Re: Roland Guitar Synth alert Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 07:44:36 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"j9FRy.0.ge6.8nmlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/718 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > From: David Talento > To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Subject: Re: Roland Guitar Synth alert > the only other guitar I've found that tracks well (not *great* but well) > is the casio MG series (i have the MG510) which again has a built in > pickup (in this case with a midi out built right in the guitar). Anyone > else use one of these? > oh, they are just the BEST!! i love mine and would eat a mile of shit to get to another one.... OK, maybe not, but they are spectacular. and i constantly use it as a good ol analog GUITAR - because it's a very well made strat copy - made by the Ibanez folks, i believe, so - "just " as an axe it rules.. but - tracks like a dream, great dynamics response. you ARE one-with-the-synth with this one. WHy, oh WHy did they discontinue??? I guess for the same reason they disco'd the casio cz 101 and all those... by giant company Casio's terms, these devices sold shit!!! even though in the synth world they broke records, esp. the CZ 101.. selling record amounts by far of any synth when it was out... but for all that - i'm not a "tracking-whiner" a guitar synth is NOT a guitar, and it plays like it plays, so, though i challenge the anti-midi screechers to try one o'these, I see no problem with the GK/Roland stuff or the Axon or anything else. It is what it is....Remember, a classical guitarist will often sneer at the concept of "amplification" - seeing it as a murdering of the pureness of what guitar should be...so let's not get too precious.... From ???@??? Wed Jul 29 10:27:19 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id JAA01661; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:29:19 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:29:19 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: PJBMHB@aol.com Message-ID: <4bbec1ba.35bf0b71@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 07:45:52 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re:Zoom 508 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Resent-Message-ID: <"NoDSl.0.Ed6.Nlmlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/717 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com the 6 taps is my favorite patch. i have a whole bunch of those programmed. good for getting that early frissel sound. =-) PJ From ???@??? Wed Jul 29 10:28:12 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA10568; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 11:09:44 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 11:09:44 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35BF1FD6.398ED4E2@texas.net> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 08:12:58 -0500 From: Bobdog Catlin Reply-To: psbuddha@texas.net Organization: Pseudo Buddha/Doghouse Ent. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: long live loopers References: <000501bdbab9$8cb91da0$96c3efd1@electra> <35BEE994.E7F5B06F@sonic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2-lz-3.0.Y3.H_nlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/720 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com javier, layne, & james! i'm a texas based low level looper & left field guitarishist. i'll be out the bay way to do some classes at the ali akbar college in marin, but my echoplex & i will be staying mostly in berkeley. should we make sounds? email bobdog: psbuddha@texas.net From ???@??? Wed Jul 29 10:28:53 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAB14368; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 11:54:22 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 11:54:22 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <004101bdbaf9$387d4a00$7a0f2299@default> From: "Pete Gilbert" To: "Loopers Delight" Subject: loops via liquid audio Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 10:00:17 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"pXcZI.0.BA1.Gmolr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/722 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com we just got tracks from our CD made available via liquid audio. you might want to check out http://www.detroitsound.com/michsticktrio/ loops on the CD are: seascape while not done spring thaw chunk o funk let me know what you think!! -------- PeteGilbert@msn.com Visit the Michigan Stick Trio Web pages at: http://www.edict.com/mst/ http://www.detroitsound.com/michsticktrio/ From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:31:26 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA31989; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:14:13 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:14:13 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199807291807.OAA03346@mail-out-3.tiac.net> Subject: Re: New Herb project (involves looping) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 98 14:13:28 -0000 x-sender: jdurant@pop.tiac.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: jdurant To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"xK6431.0.WY7.yJslr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/739 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Pet K wrote: >Is MM doing much EBowing on this record? > >Curious, >pk Hi Pete, how are you? Long time no chat. Hope you're well. Anyway, Michael continues to abuse the ebow, and has added an infinite sustain bass to his arenal; details about which I know nothing, but will certainly inquire as I'm sure there will be much interest here on the ld list. Later, jd From ???@??? Wed Jul 29 10:28:14 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA11244; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 11:18:43 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 11:18:43 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Kevin Simonson Message-Id: <199807291321.AA048958470@eagle.uis.edu> Subject: Re: Herb... To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 08:21:10 -0600 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <199807290712.DAA14334@rosy.yourwebhost.com> from "Loopers-Delight-d-request@annihilist.com" at Jul 29, 98 03:12:53 am Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"fEdSF3.0.DG.c8olr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/721 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Isn't Herb in Laundry with a guitarist and a Stick player? I think they have a few albums out now. -- Kevin Simonson Computer Science Graduate Program simonson@uis.edu University of Illinois - Springfield "Learn to swim. Learn to swim. Learn to swim. Learn to swim." -MJ Keenan, Tool From ???@??? Wed Jul 29 10:28:57 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA16163; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:12:32 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:12:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980729092113.007be1c0@wavefront.com> X-Sender: chuck.zwicky@wavefront.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:21:13 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chuck Zwicky Subject: Re: Stupid Looping Questions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Cyo652.0.0b1.S1plr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/723 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >1. Is there an ideal EQ setting for looping? I prefer no EQ >2. How short can a loop be? Yes >3. Is it possible to loop without technology? The ostinato is a technique used by many composers. >4. Will another company buy the rights from Lexicon and produce a Super >Vortex? I doubt it. >5. Do keyboardists who loop get the same tactile feedback as guitarists who >loop? Is this a question about groupies? >6. Can looping be done with another effect instead of a digital delay, tape >delay or MIDI sequencer? You used the word 'effect' in your question. A delay is really the only 'effect' that can repeat phrases. Reverbs with infinite decay or 'freeze' functions, like the quantec are great for textures. >7. How does a DJ get tempos to match when using samples from various >sources? Vari-Speed >8. Will there ever be a "Triple Trio" with Primus joining King Crimson? It was last tuesday, did you miss it? >9. How often do you create a loop without listening to it? How often is it >successful? Yes >10. So far, looping uses the following for source material: instruments, >voices, noises and pre-recorded material. What other source materials are >there? Cats. -Chuck Zwicky From ???@??? Wed Jul 29 10:29:16 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA19850; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:47:42 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:47:42 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35BF4137.7AE3A788@jps.net> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 08:35:19 -0700 From: Roland Eberle X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: andre@monmouth.com CC: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Roland Guitar Synth alert References: <199807291148.HAA06868@shell.monmouth.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"PE04f3.0.HD3.z8qlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/724 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com No need to eat a mile of s*** Andre...I have an MG-500 (trapazoidal teardrop shaped midi guitar) for sale with a case for a mere $350...you are correct when saying it is a fine guitar just as a guitar...hum single single pickups (made by EMG) vintage style trem, coil tap for the humbucker...sounds great..not just good or ok... this is a great sounding guitar just as a guitar...add in the fact that this is a VERY sophisticated midi controller with beaucoup functions and the fact that IT TRACKS AS WELL AS THE ROLAND STUFF (I've had both...pitch to midi can only track so fast..your stuck with the delay with any device) and the BIG (huge actually) bonus is that you can use it with ANY midi sound source ( I use an EMU Proteus module that I picked up for $150) not just the overpriced underperforming Roland GR stuff. The MG and PG (PG series had built in synth on board..not just the controller) were built by the Fuji Gen Gakki company for Casio and Ibanez (guitars were identical except for the name on the headstock) Quality components and workmanship throughout. Jpegs available...I have 2 of these and don't need both so...email me if interested (not to the list please go private to eb@jps.net) Andre wrote: > > From: David Talento > > To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > > Subject: Re: Roland Guitar Synth alert > > > the only other guitar I've found that tracks well (not *great* but well) > > is the casio MG series (i have the MG510) which again has a built in > > pickup (in this case with a midi out built right in the guitar). Anyone > > else use one of these? > > > oh, they are just the BEST!! i love mine and would eat a mile of shit to > get to another one.... > > OK, maybe not, but they are spectacular. and i constantly use it as a good > ol analog GUITAR - because it's a very well made strat copy - made by the > Ibanez folks, i believe, so - "just " as an axe it rules.. but - tracks > like a dream, great dynamics response. you ARE one-with-the-synth with this > one. WHy, oh WHy did they discontinue??? I guess for the same reason they > disco'd the casio cz 101 and all those... by giant company Casio's terms, > these devices sold shit!!! even though in the synth world they broke > records, esp. the CZ 101.. selling record amounts by far of any synth when > it was out... > > but for all that - i'm not a "tracking-whiner" a guitar synth is NOT a > guitar, and it plays like it plays, so, though i challenge the anti-midi > screechers to try one o'these, I see no problem with the GK/Roland stuff or > the Axon or anything else. It is what it is....Remember, a classical > guitarist will often sneer at the concept of "amplification" - seeing it as > a murdering of the pureness of what guitar should be...so let's not get too > precious.... From ???@??? Wed Jul 29 10:29:08 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA19970; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:48:25 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:48:25 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Dpcoffin@aol.com Message-ID: <9529217a.35bf45bd@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 11:54:36 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: (Gear-only) Volume pedals??? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.7 for Mac sub 3 Resent-Message-ID: <"_nZXp1.0.La3.fOqlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/725 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Does anybody out there know of a stereo volume pedal that cuts back to absolute SILENCE?? I've got several brands, and NONE of them will cut off completely...this is astounding to me...what's going on technically that makes this difficult; or did I just get duds? Thanks... dpc From ???@??? Wed Jul 29 10:29:17 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAB19946; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:48:16 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:48:16 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 11:56:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Pete Koniuto To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: New Herb project (involves looping) In-Reply-To: <199807291129.HAA24596@mail-out-1.tiac.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Fx1XL3.0.tb3.nPqlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/726 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > .... "The Book of Flame" > will be released in September on Alchemy Records. > > Later, > Jon Durant Jon, Is MM doing much EBowing on this record? Curious, pk From ???@??? Wed Jul 29 10:29:20 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA20175; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:49:11 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:49:11 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35BF48A2.E51E074D@jps.net> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:06:58 -0700 From: Roland Eberle X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: [Fwd: Roland Guitar Synth alert] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------807D87955FBF78A39BC2B96C" Resent-Message-ID: <"-z40-3.0.xu3.8bqlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/727 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Message-ID: <35BF4137.7AE3A788@jps.net> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 08:35:19 -0700 From: Roland Eberle X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: andre@monmouth.com CC: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Roland Guitar Synth alert References: <199807291148.HAA06868@shell.monmouth.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No need to eat a mile of s*** Andre...I have an MG-500 (trapazoidal teardrop shaped midi guitar) for sale with a case for a mere $350...you are correct when saying it is a fine guitar just as a guitar...hum single single pickups (made by EMG) vintage style trem, coil tap for the humbucker...sounds great..not just good or ok... this is a great sounding guitar just as a guitar...add in the fact that this is a VERY sophisticated midi controller with beaucoup functions and the fact that IT TRACKS AS WELL AS THE ROLAND STUFF (I've had both...pitch to midi can only track so fast..your stuck with the delay with any device) and the BIG (huge actually) bonus is that you can use it with ANY midi sound source ( I use an EMU Proteus module that I picked up for $150) not just the overpriced underperforming Roland GR stuff. The MG and PG (PG series had built in synth on board..not just the controller) were built by the Fuji Gen Gakki company for Casio and Ibanez (guitars were identical except for the name on the headstock) Quality components and workmanship throughout. Jpegs available...I have 2 of these and don't need both so...email me if interested (not to the list please go private to eb@jps.net) Andre wrote: > > From: David Talento > > To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > > Subject: Re: Roland Guitar Synth alert > > > the only other guitar I've found that tracks well (not *great* but well) > > is the casio MG series (i have the MG510) which again has a built in > > pickup (in this case with a midi out built right in the guitar). Anyone > > else use one of these? > > > oh, they are just the BEST!! i love mine and would eat a mile of shit to > get to another one.... > > OK, maybe not, but they are spectacular. and i constantly use it as a good > ol analog GUITAR - because it's a very well made strat copy - made by the > Ibanez folks, i believe, so - "just " as an axe it rules.. but - tracks > like a dream, great dynamics response. you ARE one-with-the-synth with this > one. WHy, oh WHy did they discontinue??? I guess for the same reason they > disco'd the casio cz 101 and all those... by giant company Casio's terms, > these devices sold shit!!! even though in the synth world they broke > records, esp. the CZ 101.. selling record amounts by far of any synth when > it was out... > > but for all that - i'm not a "tracking-whiner" a guitar synth is NOT a > guitar, and it plays like it plays, so, though i challenge the anti-midi > screechers to try one o'these, I see no problem with the GK/Roland stuff or > the Axon or anything else. It is what it is....Remember, a classical > guitarist will often sneer at the concept of "amplification" - seeing it as > a murdering of the pureness of what guitar should be...so let's not get too > precious.... From ???@??? Wed Jul 29 10:30:20 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA22940; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:10:51 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:10:51 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:58:24 -0700 Message-ID: <001059D2.----@wj.com> From: Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle) Subject: Re[2]: long live loopers To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, Bobdog Catlin Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"_dzoP2.0.2N5.iNrlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/729 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hello all Berkeley recirculators! I'm down in Santa Cruz and would be interested in possibly coming up for an evening of fun... When are you coming out Bobdog? Cheers, -Miko ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: long live loopers Author: Bobdog Catlin at INTERNET Date: 7/29/98 8:12 AM javier, layne, & james! i'm a texas based low level looper & left field guitarishist. i'll be out the bay way to do some classes at the ali akbar college in marin, but my echoplex & i will be staying mostly in berkeley. should we make sounds? email bobdog: psbuddha@texas.net From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:31:08 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA25273; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:27:11 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:27:11 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD051AC72@migarexch01.maritz.com> From: "Liebig, Steuart A." To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: Info on this??++ possible line of discussion? Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:00:26 -0500 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Resent-Message-ID: <"942X63.0._x5.wcrlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/732 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hey, Anybody out there have info about a EH Super Instant Replay? The questions that I have are about whether it's good for delays and/or looping, its usablity in live situations . . . Any info would be most helpful. I'll try a possible line for discussion (may be old hat?) What are people doing in terms of looping right now (use now), where do they see/want to see themselves going with it (future use), how do they see themselves getting there? All in terms of the hypothetical world of having enough time to deal with the process. stig From ???@??? Wed Jul 29 10:30:27 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA24245; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:19:41 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:19:41 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:12:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: jimarnt@mail.interlog.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: jimarnt@interlog.com (Jim Arnott) Subject: Re: Akai S20 Phrase Sampler Resent-Message-ID: <"kbhcJ.0.Lh5.YWrlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/730 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hi, About the S20:I've, never actually used it, but I was interested in it too. I was disapointed to find out there is no scsi interface and there is also no sys ex implementation. This means you're stuck with floppies as the only means of loading and dumping samples. The sales guy I talked to guessed that even with no memory expansion, It would take at least 2 disks to fully dump or load the entire contents of sample memory (although he didn'y seem to really know a lot about the unit). If any of this info is incorrect, I'd appreciate knowing about it. Thanks. -j >Hello loopers, > >I'm considering buying an affordable sampler (with drum machine >sequencer) in the somewhat distant future. How is the S20 from Akai? I'd >love to hear from anyone whose used this or another product in the same >price range. How flexible is the drum programming? Does the 32 kHz max. >sampling rate cut it? Is it reliable live? > >Important: How do you prepare samples for it - i.e. how difficult is it >to convert sound files from a PC format to the Akai 'S' format? > >Thanks in advance for any input, >Rob From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:31:19 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA30240; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:06:10 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:06:10 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 10:13:00 -0700 Message-ID: <00105A16.----@wj.com> From: Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle) Subject: Re: footpedal question To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"OZb5M.0.n-6.m6slr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/735 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com You can purchase a great selection of Hammond boxes from Digi-Key, a electronics catalog sales company. They have all the stuff you'd need to build your own boxes and electronic projects. Call them for a catalog... 800.344.4539 URL: www.digikey.com -m ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: footpedal question Author: Chris Chovit at INTERNET Date: 7/29/56 10:04 AM Anyone know of a company that offers a good selection of metal chassis boxes of various shapes and sizes (eg. for footpedals), at reasonable prices ? Thanks, in advance! - chris From ???@??? Wed Jul 29 10:30:36 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA25027; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:25:41 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:25:41 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980729121811.007f9310@wavefront.com> X-Sender: chuck.zwicky@wavefront.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:18:11 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chuck Zwicky Subject: Re: (Gear-only) Volume pedals??? In-Reply-To: <9529217a.35bf45bd@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"R9mWM.0.2v5.Xbrlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/731 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Often you can adjust the rack-and-pinion or the string which drives the potentiometer. Due to mechanical design limitations, there may be some sacrifice at the top end of the gain range (i.e. less than unity gain) -Chuck Zwicky At 11:54 AM 7/29/98 EDT, you wrote: >Does anybody out there know of a stereo volume pedal that cuts back to >absolute SILENCE?? I've got several brands, and NONE of them will cut off >completely...this is astounding to me...what's going on technically that makes >this difficult; or did I just get duds? >Thanks... >dpc > > > From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:31:21 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA31178; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:09:51 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:09:51 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980729122139.00838260@wavefront.com> X-Sender: chuck.zwicky@wavefront.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:21:39 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chuck Zwicky Subject: Re: footpedal question In-Reply-To: References: <199807291321.AA048958470@eagle.uis.edu> <199807290712.DAA14334@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"4WFIe2.0.l87.4Cslr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/736 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Try Mouser electronics. www.mouser.com At 10:04 AM 7/29/70 -0700, you wrote: >Anyone know of a company that offers a good selection of metal chassis >boxes of various shapes and sizes (eg. for footpedals), at reasonable >prices ? > >Thanks, in advance! > >- chris > > > > From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:31:15 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA28660; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:54:19 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:54:19 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:46:21 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199807291746.MAA26518@mw2.texas.net> X-Sender: sharkey@mail.texas.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: james rhodes Subject: long live loopers/ali akbar college(no loop content) Resent-Message-ID: <"65bfy2.0.Pj6.N0slr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/733 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hey Bobdog, great to see your prescence on this most informative list. have a great time in CA. thanks for Sindhi Bhairaui. its great. let me know when ya return to TX see you at the palace. james rhodes At 08:12 AM 7/29/98 -0500, you wrote: >javier, layne, & james! > >i'm a texas based low level looper & left field guitarishist. i'll be >out the bay way to do some classes at the ali akbar college in marin, >but my echoplex & i will be staying mostly in berkeley. > >should we make sounds? > >email bobdog: psbuddha@texas.net > > > From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:31:17 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA28801; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:55:15 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:55:15 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <05f701bdbb19$78c9a7a0$c5b854ce@mark.asisoftware.com> From: Mark@asisoftware.com (Mark Kata) To: "Loopers Delight" Subject: EH Super Replay Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:51:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"mV-sD.0.xl6.J1slr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/734 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >From what I remember, the Super Replay had a maximum recording time of two seconds. You hit the pad and it played the sample once. I don't think it could loop, but I could be wrong. I also remember that the guitarist or drummer in Dark used one. Their URL is: http://music.calarts.edu?~snakes/ Maybe they can help. Mark Kata Mark@asisoftware.com From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:31:23 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA31227; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:10:05 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:10:05 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <05fb01bdbb1b$210308c0$c5b854ce@mark.asisoftware.com> From: Mark@asisoftware.com (Mark Kata) To: "Loopers Delight" Subject: My Future in Looping Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:03:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"FiH142.0.WA7.oCslr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/737 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com My goal in looping is to sound like myself and not like the big three--Fripp, Torn and Frisell. I've listened to their music for so many years, that it's fairly easy for me to imitate the techniques that they use. I would like to develop a body of personal and original techniques and fuse them, in a compelling way, with compositions and improvisations that immediately identify me as the sole source. The tricky part is identifying how to achieve this goal. Perhaps I should stop listening to anyone else's music. Perhaps I should cloister myself with my gear and deny myself from playing anything I already know. Any ideas? Mark Kata Mark@asisoftware.com From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:31:24 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA31382; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:10:44 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:10:44 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980729110446.006b2e1c@popper.simi-valley.tt.slb.com> X-Sender: cavaleri@popper.simi-valley.tt.slb.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 11:04:46 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Joe Cavaleri Subject: Re: footpedal question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"GbqfI1.0.7E7.AEslr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/738 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com You might try finding friends with dead pedals,swap meets, local music store, etc. that way a lot of the holes and connectors are already there. If not there's always Raido Shack, or some of the catalog places, (Kim?) At 10:04 AM 7/29/70 -0700, you wrote: >Anyone know of a company that offers a good selection of metal chassis >boxes of various shapes and sizes (eg. for footpedals), at reasonable >prices ? > >Thanks, in advance! > >- chris > > > > From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:31:31 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA01719; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:29:12 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:29:12 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: PJBMHB@aol.com Message-ID: <10a1d643.35bf6908@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:25:10 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: (Gear-only) Volume pedals??? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Resent-Message-ID: <"DNg2A3.0.8K.Hbslr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/741 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com my morley volume pedal is absolutely quiet. they use something besides pots so it doesn't get scratchy. might be worth checking out. =-) PJ From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:31:33 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA03467; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:38:14 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:38:14 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199807291835.LAA24724@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: My Future in Looping To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 11:35:28 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <05fb01bdbb1b$210308c0$c5b854ce@mark.asisoftware.com> from "Mark Kata" at Jul 29, 98 02:03:02 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"C03cj1.0.pn.Ukslr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/742 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > Perhaps I should stop listening to anyone else's music. Perhaps I should > cloister myself with my gear and deny myself from playing anything I already > know. > > Any ideas? I would humbly suggest the exact opposite. Listen to an even wider variety of music. Cheers, Paolo From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:32:27 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA16906; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 15:48:36 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 15:48:36 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Sender: mpeters@csi.com Message-ID: <01BDBB39.9621F620.mpeters@csi.com> From: Michael Peters To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: AW: My Future in Looping Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 20:36:37 +0200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-Mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"iOtgh1.0.gv3.hktlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/748 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Mark Kata wrote, > Perhaps I should stop listening to anyone else's music. Perhaps I should > cloister myself with my gear and deny myself from playing anything I already > know. yes, maybe you should ... we've already had a lively discussion about this problem a while ago (check the archives 12/96 to 1/97 or so), under the heading of 'going beyond Fripp' etc. There were a lot of very inspiring and interesting messages, including contributions by David Torn. * michael peters mpeters@csi.com * "escape veloopity" electronic guitar loop music * http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Mpeters From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:31:37 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA04659; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:47:18 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:47:18 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD051AC75@migarexch01.maritz.com> From: "Liebig, Steuart A." To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: My Future in Looping Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:44:10 -0500 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Resent-Message-ID: <"aovC03.0.731.usslr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/743 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Maybe the answer is sort of a combination of the two. You stop listening to the music that you normally listen to . . . either go for something totally different that you've never heard before - - something that is out of your normal sphere of influence (i.e., you like noise, then go for Mozart) - - or go back to stuff that you've listened a LONG time ago and reinvestigate (I have records that I've kept even though I hate 'em, or didn't quite understand them when I first got 'em - - it's nice to go back to 'em and see how I feel about them now). stig > ---------- > From: Paolo Valladolid > Reply To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 1998 11:35 > To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Subject: Re: My Future in Looping > > > Perhaps I should stop listening to anyone else's music. Perhaps I > should > > cloister myself with my gear and deny myself from playing anything I > already > > know. > > > > Any ideas? > > I would humbly suggest the exact opposite. Listen to an even wider > variety of music. > > Cheers, > Paolo > From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:31:38 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA06274; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 15:00:28 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 15:00:28 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:57:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Pete Koniuto Reply-To: Pete Koniuto To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: New Herb project (involves looping) In-Reply-To: <199807291807.OAA03346@mail-out-3.tiac.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"PsaJY1.0.6T1.r2tlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/744 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com On Wed, 29 Jul 1998, jdurant wrote: > Hi Pete, how are you? Long time no chat. Hope you're well. I'm good. I just gave my notice. I'm VERY good. Did see you from a distance at the B.L.U.E. show in Cambridge, i believe. > Anyway, Michael continues to abuse the ebow, and has added an infinite > sustain bass to his arenal; details about which I know nothing, but will > certainly inquire as I'm sure there will be much interest here on the ld > list. Glad to---well, looking forward to hearing it! What other kindsa loopiness is happening over there in Alchemy-ville? Is Caryn Lin touring much? Missed her last Boston perfomance to see the Guitar Oblique thang in NYC. Would really like to hear her live again. Ideas for a new record? And the others loopsters? Missing that viol-thing, pete k. From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:32:25 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA13132; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 15:30:24 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 15:30:24 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <2C396693FBDED111AEF60000F84104A71A6384@indyexch_fddi.indy.tce.com> From: Hoover Alan To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: footpedal question Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:11:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"eulgz3.0.4k2.WRtlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/747 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com The company which I use most often is Mouser Electronics, 800 346-6873. They sell most manufacturers' products, usually have them in stock, and offer good service. They will send a catalog for free. They have 3 or 4 brands of the sturdy diecast aluminum boxes which are road-worthy. -----Original Message----- From: Chris Chovit [mailto:cho@newdream.net] Sent: Sunday, July 29, 1956 12:05 PM To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: footpedal question Anyone know of a company that offers a good selection of metal chassis boxes of various shapes and sizes (eg. for footpedals), at reasonable prices ? Thanks, in advance! - chris From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:32:29 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA17057; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 15:49:06 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 15:49:06 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980729194506.00eeb5e8@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:45:06 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: footpedal question Resent-Message-ID: <"yrs0J3.0.ow3.-ktlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/749 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com well, comparing to computer keyboards is not really fair. Those are manufactured in million piece volumes, which drops manufacturing costs practically to nothing, and gives the manufacturers access to slave-labor factories in Malaysia. Not to mention massive volume price deals on shipping, etc. Little music industry companies like Oberheim can't possibly enjoy such luxuries. Prices on niche products are always going to be higher for that reason. In fact, I would say that if you paid $20 for a computer keyboard, you got completely ripped off for that. It probably didn't cost them more than $3 to put it in your local store.....it's the fries and cokes of the PC industry. kim At 02:22 PM 7/29/98 -0500, Dennis W. Leas wrote: >I made five EDP pedals. Each has an additional push-on push-off switch which lets me select >which of my two EDPs I control. I took my original EDP pedal to a sheet-metal fabricator and >they made me five identical boxes for $100 (i.e., $20 each). At $125, IMHO the Oberheim pedel >is "not worth the money". When I got my first EDP and opened up the pedel, I felt ripped-off; >but at least I could begin looping immediately. You can purchase COMPLETE computer keyboards >for $20! > >- Dennis Leas > > >Chuck Zwicky wrote: >> >> Try Mouser electronics. www.mouser.com >> >> At 10:04 AM 7/29/70 -0700, you wrote: >> >Anyone know of a company that offers a good selection of metal chassis >> >boxes of various shapes and sizes (eg. for footpedals), at reasonable >> >prices ? >> > >> >Thanks, in advance! >> > >> >- chris >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > ________________________________________________________ Kim Flint, MTS 408-752-9284 Chromatic Research kflint@chromatic.com http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:32:31 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA19777; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:05:05 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:05:05 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <19980729200131.19662.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [209.64.195.162] From: "Dennis Coggia" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: My Future in Looping Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:01:31 PDT Resent-Message-ID: <"HxP-i3.0.2j4.T_tlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/750 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I second the motion for listening to even more of other peoples work. It's like getting an education which is surely need in the present state of the music world. When I think about how lame popular music is I usually break it down to a lack of perspective of not only the listeners but the musicians themselves. Case in point, many people actually believe that this clown Beck is creating something new and original and what's even more of a crime is when I'll be playing some live Zappa from the 60's or early 70's and some dip will ask me what Phish show is that. Oop's I'm sorry, I have drifted. Great music inspires, that's what makes the differance between music that "does it for me" and all else. My favorite Artists have inspired me to find my own voice, not just admire them. Dennis,New Hamshire ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Wed Jul 29 10:27:03 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id JAA00443; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:15:44 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:15:44 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980729130524.1f0f5a9c@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> X-Sender: pycraft@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:05:24 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Michael Pycraft Hughes Subject: Looping Questions, easy answers In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"PpoI51.0.SJ6.UMmlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/714 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >>3. Is it possible to loop without technology? >no A saxophonist friend of mine once lived in an old hall at uni, which was square and constructed with a 100m long stone corridor down each side (there was a garden in the middle). The time taken for sound to travel around the circle meant that he could play chords if he played loud/fast enough. Primitive looping? >>4. Will another company buy the rights from Lexicon and produce a Super >>Vortex? >no The MPX? >>6. Can looping be done with another effect instead of a digital delay, tape >>delay or MIDI sequencer? >analog delays Old stione buildings! >>8. Will there ever be a "Triple Trio" with Primus joining King Crimson? >I hope not Howabout a Double Sextet with KC, Primus and Rush? (Or a duet with Fripp and he ego? Mi-OW!) Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes, University of Glasgow, Glasgow UK G12 8QQ -------------------------------------------------------------------- "What can be done with fewer assumptions is done in vain with more" - William of Occam (1285-1347) (now called Occam's Razor) -------------------------------------------------------------------- www.elec.gla.ac.uk/~pycraft pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk From ???@??? Wed Jul 29 10:27:05 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id JAA00442; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:15:44 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:15:44 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980729130842.1b0f3426@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> X-Sender: pycraft@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:08:42 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Michael Pycraft Hughes Subject: Looping Questions, easy answers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"5_ufa.0.AJ6.LMmlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/713 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >>3. Is it possible to loop without technology? >no A saxophonist friend of mine once lived in an old hall at uni, which was square and constructed with a 100m long stone corridor down each side (there was a garden in the middle). The time taken for sound to travel around the circle meant that he could play chords if he played loud/fast enough. Primitive looping? >>4. Will another company buy the rights from Lexicon and produce a Super >>Vortex? >no The MPX? >>6. Can looping be done with another effect instead of a digital delay, tape >>delay or MIDI sequencer? >analog delays Old stione buildings! >>8. Will there ever be a "Triple Trio" with Primus joining King Crimson? >I hope not Howabout a Double Sextet with KC, Primus and Rush? (Or a duet with Fripp and he ego? Mi-OW!) Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes, University of Glasgow, Glasgow UK G12 8QQ -------------------------------------------------------------------- "What can be done with fewer assumptions is done in vain with more" - William of Occam (1285-1347) (now called Occam's Razor) -------------------------------------------------------------------- www.elec.gla.ac.uk/~pycraft pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:32:34 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA23347; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:23:19 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:23:19 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35BF83CB.B4B826CB@Pirnie.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:19:23 -0400 From: "Lee Wordsman" Reply-To: Lwordsman@pirnie.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: My Future in Looping References: <19980729200131.19662.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"o9dD_3.0.pa5.NGulr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/752 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Dennis Coggia wrote: >I second the motion for listening to even more of other peoples work. >It's like getting an education which is surely need in the present >state of the music world. ... >Great music inspires, that's what makes the differance between music >what "does it for me" and all else. > My favorite Artists have inspired me to find my own voice, not just > admire them. Hence my question regarding what the non-guitarist (Brian Eno) was doing on the "No Pussyfooting" recording. I'm not interested in beating the "Fripp is god" thread but rather would like to understand how some of the tools (like a delay and a mixer) can be used to process guitar loops. I must say that I was suprised not to get a response to my initial post. Many of you LDers have indicated familiarity with this album so it can't be that no one has heard it. Listening to others music is great but sometimes it can be very difficult to understand how that music was created. Understanding another persons creative process can provide the kernel for each of us to add another approach to our own process no matter what level we are performing at. From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:32:32 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA22861; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:20:47 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:20:47 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <35BF843C.2332@mdbs.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 15:21:16 -0500 From: "Dennis W. Leas" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; U) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: footpedal question References: <2.2.32.19980729194506.00eeb5e8@pop.chromatic.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"RNxXq1.0.gT5.JEulr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/751 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I don't mean to be unfair, but when I look at the EDP itself priced at about $700 and the pedal priced at $125, something seems out of wack. Please understand, I'm glad I bought a pedal with my first EDP. I'm also glad I didn't buy a pedal for my second one. I need a minimum of three pedals when I play out as I'm a percussionist and have instruments all over the place. Otherwise, I have to move the pedals from instrument to instrument during a piece. Five pedals work out much better but I couldn't see paying $625 for them. The price of the pedal doesn't encourage using more than one, unless you build them yourself. I'd rather support Oberheim by buying another EDP, it seems a better value. The design of the pedal is very good (I'd say brilliant). I LOVE being able to use a conventional two-conductor cord. The construction, I feel, falls somewhat short. Within 3 months, I had to replace the RECORD button on my original pedal and I'm NOT an animal on my switches. I play in my bare feet to have a better touch. Sorry if I'm flaming on this issue. Kim Flint wrote: > > well, comparing to computer keyboards is not really fair. Those are > manufactured in million piece volumes, which drops manufacturing costs > practically to nothing, and gives the manufacturers access to slave-labor > factories in Malaysia. Not to mention massive volume price deals on > shipping, etc. Little music industry companies like Oberheim can't possibly > enjoy such luxuries. Prices on niche products are always going to be higher > for that reason. In fact, I would say that if you paid $20 for a computer > keyboard, you got completely ripped off for that. It probably didn't cost > them more than $3 to put it in your local store.....it's the fries and cokes > of the PC industry. From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:32:50 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA25619; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:40:15 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:40:15 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199807292036.WAA30868@europa.glo.be> X-Sender: cd003392@pop3.z03.glo.be X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 22:26:34 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: vidna obmana Subject: Re: The Feedback Machine story In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"EHeog2.0.B86.5Wulr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/754 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >Hello John. Thanks for the interest; I'm curious to know how you found me. >After a hiatus of about five years, I have indeed begun to record some new >Feedback Music. Very far from having new material ready for release, >though I am about done with new sound material to send to Asmus Tietchens >for his use in a third collaborative project. Dear David, Perhaps not the best place and moment to do this but I wanted to share my appreciation with you for your body of work you've done in the past (from the outstanding 'Penetrating black ice' to my favorite collaborative works with Asmus). We both seem to have an affection as well for the perception of Asmus Tietchens as well, as I also took up with him the chance to record a new double album together wherein we expand the possibilities of the 'recycling' method. Here again, the looping technique remains the most important and multi-functional aplication. Good luck on your future recordings. Dirk (aka Vidna Obmana) From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:32:42 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA25218; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:38:08 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:38:08 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:35:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199807292035.QAA02888@user1.channel1.com> X-Sender: seahorse@user1.channel1.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Frank Gerace Subject: Re: my future looping.... Resent-Message-ID: <"A0leR2.0.N56.pUulr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/753 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >Dennis Coggia wrote: > >>I second the motion for listening to even more of other peoples work. >>It's like getting an education which is surely need in the present >state of the music world. ... > >>Great music inspires, that's what makes the differance between music >what "does it for me" and all else. >> My favorite Artists have inspired me to find my own voice, not just >> admire them. > >Hence my question regarding what the non-guitarist (Brian Eno) was doing >on the "No Pussyfooting" recording. I'm not interested in beating the >"Fripp is god" thread but rather would like to understand how some of >the tools (like a delay and a mixer) can be used to process guitar >loops. I must say that I was suprised not to get a response to my >initial post. Many of you LDers have indicated familiarity with this >album so it can't be that no one has heard it. > >Listening to others music is great but sometimes it can be very >difficult to understand how that music was created. Understanding >another persons creative process can provide the kernel for each of us >to add another approach to our own process no matter what level we are >performing at. > > Sometimes its just a valuable to have no idea whatsoever about how something is created and try to figure out a way to do it yourself. This results in finding a way for you to do something that you have 'discovered'. you may find out later that your preconceptiuons were in error, but you managed to do something creative all the same. For example, in the early stages of my guitar playing, I wasn't aware of multitracking andf thought most of what I heard was one guitar player. I tried very hard to develop my ability to match that of the records I loved. Come to find out later it was two or three guitarist. What did I get- a picking technique that allowed me to do what I heard. It caused me to examine different voicings and incorporate my fingers as well as a flatpick. Sort of a happy accident. By not knowing how something is done, you have to use your imagination and engage that in conjuction with the toys at your disposal. Jean Cocteau did great special effects in his movies and didn't require any of the vast techno toys available to someone who uses Industrial Light and Sound (not to slag anyone off, here) He just used simple stuff like turning the film around. And it works and has a special charm you couldn't create with any other method. So listen to lots of stuff, the more varied the better. than try to do what you think you want to do with your music woithout being concerned with how others did their stuff. Now that I've said that, I guess I have to do some of that too. Frank Gerace Dreamchild From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:32:55 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA27364; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:52:39 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:52:39 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980729205045.00ec5db0@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:50:45 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: footpedal question Resent-Message-ID: <"DgKwn1.0.Cc6.Siulr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/755 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 03:21 PM 7/29/98 -0500, Dennis W. Leas wrote: >The design of the pedal is very good (I'd say >brilliant). I LOVE being able to use a conventional two-conductor cord. thanks, that part was my idea. :-) I'm rather proud of the simplicity we managed to achieve in the pedal design. Making it work with an ordinary patch cord was one of my "I'm a musician, dammit, and this thing is gonna be musician-friendly!" stubborn insistences. I hate special cables, and I sure as hell wasn't going to design one in without a fight...so we made the rack unit smarter to enable the pedal to be really dumb. Another one of the goals of the design was to enable people to easily make their own pedals, and I'm glad to see people like yourself are doing that. It lets you easily customize the control of the EDP to whatever it is you are doing. Not everybody wants a footpedal, but maybe you want something completely different. Or maybe you just want a different sort of pedal (tastes vary widely in foot controls...). You can make it yourself in an afternoon, and don't need much skill or any special help from Oberheim. And as you've noted, the parts are pretty cheap. So I guess if you don't like the pedal Oberheim sells, go make your own! >Within 3 months, I had to replace the RECORD button on my original >pedal and I'm NOT an animal on my switches. I play in my bare >feet to have a better touch. I've been using the same pedal on mine for 4 years and it's never broken, so it's definitely a YMMV sort of thing..... kim ________________________________________________________ Kim Flint, MTS 408-752-9284 Chromatic Research kflint@chromatic.com http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:32:57 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA30371; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 17:17:32 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 17:17:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980729211540.00e6da20@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:15:40 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: my future looping.... Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Resent-Message-ID: <"8axNy.0.aK7.o3vlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/756 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 04:35 PM 7/29/98 -0400, Frank Gerace wrote: >>Dennis Coggia wrote: >> >>>I second the motion for listening to even more of other peoples work. >>>It's like getting an education which is surely need in the present >state >of the music world. ... >> >>Listening to others music is great but sometimes it can be very >>difficult to understand how that music was created. Understanding >>another persons creative process can provide the kernel for each of us >>to add another approach to our own process no matter what level we are >>performing at. >> >> > Sometimes its just a valuable to have no idea whatsoever about how >something is created and try to figure out a way to do it yourself. This >results in finding a way for you to do something that you have 'discovered'. >you may find out later that your preconceptiuons were in error, but you >managed to do something creative all the same. [...] > By not knowing how something is done, you have to use your >imagination and engage that in conjuction with the toys at your disposal. [...] > So listen to lots of stuff, the more varied the better. than try to >do what you think you want to do with your music woithout being concerned >with how others did their stuff. perfect, I was about to say the same thing. Listening to other music is a great education. But you need to be careful that you don't come away from it with just another set of licks or rules that locks you in. For me the best thing to do is to listen to some new sort of music and try to remember the way the music feels while you listen to it. Then turn it off and go do some other thing for a while so that the specifics of it leave your head. Then later, pick up your instrument, and try to create something that "feels" like whatever you were listening to. Don't recreate the music, necessarily, but the feeling/atmosphere/whatever about it. This is hard, and you will certainly fail miserably at first. (I always do...) After a while though, you will begin to create stuff with that new feeling and begin to understand how to do that. The important thing is you will be doing it in your own way, and not through regurgitating someone else's ideas without any real understanding of them. In fact, it's always a good idea to listen to music that doesn't even include the instrument you normally play so that you are forced to rethink things and adapt things. The next step is to take that "feel" you've added to your vocabulary, and bring it back to whatever you were doing before, and mix it all together. Makes a huge difference.... kim ________________________________________________________ Kim Flint, MTS 408-752-9284 Chromatic Research kflint@chromatic.com http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:33:08 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA01227; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 17:52:56 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 17:52:56 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35BF98F1.E9863260@Pirnie.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 17:49:37 -0400 From: "Lee Wordsman" Reply-To: Lwordsman@pirnie.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: my future looping.... References: <2.2.32.19980729211540.00e6da20@pop.chromatic.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"I9OTf2.0.4E.xavlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/757 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I certainly agree with what your both saying and often practice that approach. However, I still think it's valid to understand the process that others use. Isn't that part of what this list is about. It's not my intention to try to mimic the sounds I'm hearing but to use every trick and tool available to me to create something that allows me to advance my own playing. The approach used on the piece I was referring to is of particular interest given that the loop is under 4 seconds (the limit of my delay). The other interesting aspect is that one person was playing an instrument (could have been any sound source) while the other person was playing with the signal. I believe that results in an interesting dynamic that I don't recall being discussed much on this list. Most of us talk about looping our own signal (whether it be a sample or an instrument)and tweaking the loop. I know that many of you loop in group settings. Do you loop output from other band members with/without your own. If so, do you take these loops in terms of measures or random snathches of sound to fly back into what your doing. I'm not asking to be shown how to do this but rather to stir the cauldron and see what comes up. It beats trying to figure out if Phish is more original than Zappa ;) Kim Flint wrote: > > At 04:35 PM 7/29/98 -0400, Frank Gerace wrote: > >>Dennis Coggia wrote: > >> > >>>I second the motion for listening to even more of other peoples work. > >>>It's like getting an education which is surely need in the present >state > >of the music world. ... > >> > > >>Listening to others music is great but sometimes it can be very > >>difficult to understand how that music was created. Understanding > >>another persons creative process can provide the kernel for each of us > >>to add another approach to our own process no matter what level we are > >>performing at. > >> > >> > > Sometimes its just a valuable to have no idea whatsoever about how > >something is created and try to figure out a way to do it yourself. This > >results in finding a way for you to do something that you have 'discovered'. > >you may find out later that your preconceptiuons were in error, but you > >managed to do something creative all the same. > [...] > > By not knowing how something is done, you have to use your > >imagination and engage that in conjuction with the toys at your disposal. > [...] > > So listen to lots of stuff, the more varied the better. than try to > >do what you think you want to do with your music woithout being concerned > >with how others did their stuff. > > perfect, I was about to say the same thing. Listening to other music is a > great education. But you need to be careful that you don't come away from it > with just another set of licks or rules that locks you in. > > For me the best thing to do is to listen to some new sort of music and try > to remember the way the music feels while you listen to it. Then turn it > off and go do some other thing for a while so that the specifics of it leave > your head. Then later, pick up your instrument, and try to create something > that "feels" like whatever you were listening to. Don't recreate the music, > necessarily, but the feeling/atmosphere/whatever about it. This is hard, and > you will certainly fail miserably at first. (I always do...) After a while > though, you will begin to create stuff with that new feeling and begin to > understand how to do that. The important thing is you will be doing it in > your own way, and not through regurgitating someone else's ideas without any > real understanding of them. In fact, it's always a good idea to listen to > music that doesn't even include the instrument you normally play so that you > are forced to rethink things and adapt things. > > The next step is to take that "feel" you've added to your vocabulary, and > bring it back to whatever you were doing before, and mix it all together. > Makes a huge difference.... > > kim > > ________________________________________________________ > Kim Flint, MTS 408-752-9284 > Chromatic Research kflint@chromatic.com > http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:33:26 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id SAA06186; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:39:34 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:39:34 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199807292235.PAA26643@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: my future looping.... To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 15:35:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19980729211540.00e6da20@pop.chromatic.com> from "Kim Flint" at Jul 29, 98 02:15:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"myoxS.0.uP1.6Fwlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/758 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Great post Kim. As an example, I'll offer that Steve Tibbetts' music is very close to the direction where I'd like to go myself musically - the combination of atmospherics, acoustic sound sources, in-your-face intensity, and an abiding love of ethnomusicology. But I don't see myself copping his sound (I don't even play guitar anymore) or his compositional approach - at least not consciously. :) Cheers, Paolo From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:33:27 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id SAA07345; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:49:31 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:49:31 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: PJBMHB@aol.com Message-ID: <2edd3f0c.35bfa640@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:46:23 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: sustainiac/hk Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Resent-Message-ID: <"xEiYf2.0.gj1.0Qwlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/759 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com henry uses the sustainiac in the studio every 2-3 yrs. but thinks it is too "awkward and ungainly" to use on stage. it does seem kind of nuts to have to deal with even more wires coming from your gtr. sustainiac owners....agree, disagree, don't care...? PJ =-) From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:33:44 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA09284; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:09:32 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:09:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <2C396693FBDED111AEF60000F84104A71A638B@indyexch_fddi.indy.tce.com> From: Hoover Alan To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Cc: "'PJBMHB@aol.com'" Subject: RE: sustainiac/hk Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:06:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"HBQMz3.0.AC2.kiwlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/760 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I own Maniac Music, which makes the Sustainiac(r) products. I have an all-in-guitar sustainer (called the Sustainiac GA-2) which produces infinite sustain using direct magnetic feedback upon the strings. It is like the Fernandes Sustainer, in fact, they used to use ours, then "borrowed" the technology. It mounts entirely inside the instrument, is powered by 9v batteries. There will be another Sustainiac acoustic sustainer (like our original "Model B" with headstock-mounted transducer) out later in the year with a much smaller transducer and other features, making it easier to use on stage. Stay tuned... -----Original Message----- From: PJBMHB@aol.com [mailto:PJBMHB@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 1998 5:46 PM To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: sustainiac/hk henry uses the sustainiac in the studio every 2-3 yrs. but thinks it is too "awkward and ungainly" to use on stage. it does seem kind of nuts to have to deal with even more wires coming from your gtr. sustainiac owners....agree, disagree, don't care...? PJ =-) From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:33:48 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA10973; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:25:39 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:25:39 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980729232352.00cfc964@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:23:52 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: RE: sustainiac/hk Resent-Message-ID: <"i_cDq2.0.Qc2.-xwlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/761 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 06:06 PM 7/29/98 -0500, Hoover Alan wrote: >sustain using direct magnetic feedback upon the strings. It is like the >Fernandes Sustainer, in fact, they used to use ours, then "borrowed" the >technology. Fernandes seems to have a knack for that. They get sued rather frequently. I think Gibson is currently suing them for "borrowing" the Les Paul. kim ________________________________________________________ Kim Flint, MTS 408-752-9284 Chromatic Research kflint@chromatic.com http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:33:49 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA11643; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:30:33 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:30:33 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD051AC82@migarexch01.maritz.com> From: "Liebig, Steuart A." To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: my future looping....PROCESS Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:27:17 -0500 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Resent-Message-ID: <"cdbnu1.0.Sm2.80xlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/762 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > I certainly agree with what your both saying and often practice that > approach. However, I still think it's valid to understand the process > that others use. > > I think that it's useful to figure out what other people are doing/did > (Bach for instance) . . . I also think that it's useful to remember that > it's a good idea to go to internal sources as well . . . the trick is > getting to a place where you can intuit when those times are and to keep a > good balance between the external and internal. > > > It beats trying to figure out if Phish > is more original than Zappa > > Eno (I think) had an interesting idea when he said that (paraphrasing > here) "originality" was an overated concept in western music . . . I don't > always agree, but I think that it's worth considering. > > (Also: One thing that eventually got to me about Zappa was that I started > listening to Varese and then realized that not all of the stuff on Frank's > records was "his" . . . he seemed to have borrowed quite a lot - - also I > read something where the Dead said that the Allman Bros Band was doing > stuff that they had already done . . . for me the Dead were boring, but I > thought that the ABB [Duane and Berry version] rocked better and SOUNDED > better . . . IMHO) > > > >Listening to other music is a > > great education. But you need to be careful that you don't come away > from it > > with just another set of licks or rules that locks you in. > > I couldn't agree more . . . you gotta deal with it on your artistic level. > > > Sort of what creativity is about: analysis (learning what others did) into > synthesis (doing what you're going to do with it). (I know that there's > some sort of archetypal theory that has three steps - - I think that > these are two and three - - anybody help me out on number one?) > > stig > > > From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:33:51 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA12014; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:32:18 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:32:18 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: PJBMHB@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:28:05 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Fernandes Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Resent-Message-ID: <"_F_t62.0.Dp2.I1xlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/763 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com i used to own a "borrowed tele" from them and it was awesome and inexpensive. definitely worth "borrowing!!" =-) PJ From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:33:53 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA12381; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:34:41 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:34:41 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Crossedout@aol.com Message-ID: <20f12fd7.35bfb09e@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:30:37 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: (Gear-only) Volume pedals??? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Resent-Message-ID: <"JH7ze1.0.ow2.n3xlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/764 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 98-07-29 12:48:02 EDT, you write: << Does anybody out there know of a stereo volume pedal that cuts back to absolute SILENCE?? I've got several brands, and NONE of them will cut off completely >> I have a (bargain-basement) Boss stereo volume pedal*, and it cuts signal off all the way... maybe you HAVE gotten all the duds!! (* it's the blue and black one, plastic, no power - if I had it out instead of packed away, I'd give you a model number!) - Bill Crossedout@aol.com From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:34:08 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA13582; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:41:04 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:41:04 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:31:56 -0700 Message-ID: <00105F9B.----@wj.com> From: Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle) Subject: Re[2]: sustainiac/hk To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, Kim Flint Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"x_gvJ.0.3F3.KAxlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/767 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I believe that's Tokai who borrowed the Paul... There was a lawsuit over their use of the body style and features. Also our exteemed Mr. Fripp uses one as well! 8-> Miko ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: RE: sustainiac/hk Author: Kim Flint at INTERNET Date: 7/29/98 4:23 PM At 06:06 PM 7/29/98 -0500, Hoover Alan wrote: >sustain using direct magnetic feedback upon the strings. It is like the >Fernandes Sustainer, in fact, they used to use ours, then "borrowed" the >technology. Fernandes seems to have a knack for that. They get sued rather frequently. I think Gibson is currently suing them for "borrowing" the Les Paul. kim ________________________________________________________ Kim Flint, MTS 408-752-9284 Chromatic Research kflint@chromatic.com http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:33:55 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAB12861; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:37:23 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:37:23 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Crossedout@aol.com Message-ID: <99294635.35bfb138@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:33:11 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: footpedal question Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Resent-Message-ID: <"_E5ob2.0.--2.R5xlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/765 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 98-07-29 13:08:34 EDT, you write: << Anyone know of a company that offers a good selection of metal chassis boxes of various shapes and sizes (eg. for footpedals), at reasonable prices ? >> well, reasonable is relative, but as far as customer service and bang for the buck, the company I use for components is Marlin P. Jones & Associates - 800-652-6733, or http://www.mpja.com/ check 'em out. - Bill Crossedout@aol.com From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:33:57 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA13029; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:38:10 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:38:10 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <2C396693FBDED111AEF60000F84104A71A638C@indyexch_fddi.indy.tce.com> From: Hoover Alan To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Fernandes Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:33:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"U8tRj2.0.213.86xlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/766 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com They do make good products, I agree. I have one myself. -----Original Message----- From: PJBMHB@aol.com [mailto:PJBMHB@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 1998 6:28 PM To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Fernandes i used to own a "borrowed tele" from them and it was awesome and inexpensive. definitely worth "borrowing!!" =-) PJ From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:34:16 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA14851; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:50:34 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:50:34 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980729234846.0096fdb8@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:48:46 -0700 To: Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle) From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Re[2]: sustainiac/hk Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Resent-Message-ID: <"GdxIS2.0.wY3.KJxlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/768 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 04:31 PM 7/29/98 -0700, Mike Biffle wrote: > I believe that's Tokai who borrowed the Paul... There was a lawsuit > over their use of the body style and features. Tokai also did it, that was a past lawsuit....you'll notice there are very few companies making instruments that look like Gibson's. It's not a coincidence...they're pretty aggressive about protecting their trademarks. kim ________________________________________________________ Kim Flint, MTS 408-752-9284 Chromatic Research kflint@chromatic.com http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:34:17 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA15270; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:52:42 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:52:42 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Crossedout@aol.com Message-ID: <13635b3b.35bfb4f1@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:49:04 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: average loop music CD price Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Resent-Message-ID: <"ZMioE.0.qb3.mKxlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/769 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 98-07-29 18:23:08 EDT, you write: << what would be an appropriate price for a CD (ambient, experimental loops) in the US? I've seen prices from $12 to $21 ... >> Personally, I'm a fan of people who put reasonable prices on thier music, rather than "competing" with the "average" price for cds, which is way too high in most cases. It drives me up a wall to see something I might want to check out priced outrageously, when a label like Dark Beloved Cloud can take the Spaceheads' "Around The Outside" cd* and sell it for $3.... POSTPAID. I can understand there is a higher set of operating costs involved in exporting your work to another country, but is there still a reason to put a base price of $12 on something that costs less than $2 to manufacture? (* which I'd highly recommend - 43 minutes of live bass loops, trumpet blazing and ultra-tight drumming... inventive and engaging!) Anyway, that's my whine. Price it as low as you can, so that everyone can afford to pick it up and experience it, instead of picking it up and going "gee, I wish this wasn't $20". - Bill Crossedout@aol.com From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:34:21 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA16001; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:56:52 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:56:52 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: PJBMHB@aol.com Message-ID: <98346415.35bfb5d7@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:52:54 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: gibson's trademarks Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Resent-Message-ID: <"Pd3fn3.0.pq3.pOxlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/770 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com so i can't come out with my les paul shaped harmonica after all??!! DAMN!! =-) PJ From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:34:23 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id VAA22805; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 21:09:36 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 21:09:36 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35BFC9AE.6F64@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:17:34 -0700 From: Andre LaFosse Reply-To: altruist@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: average loop music CD price References: <13635b3b.35bfb4f1@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bYWhW2.0.wU5.PTylr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/771 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Crossedout@aol.com wrote: > Personally, I'm a fan of people who put reasonable prices on thier music, > rather than "competing" with the "average" price for cds, which is way too > high in most cases. > It drives me up a wall to see something I might want to check out priced > outrageously, when a label like Dark Beloved Cloud can take the Spaceheads' > "Around The Outside" cd* and sell it for $3.... POSTPAID. > I can understand there is a higher set of operating costs involved in > exporting your work to another country, but is there still a reason to put a > base price of $12 on something that costs less than $2 to manufacture? As someone who's spent the last nine or ten months paying bills by ringing up CDs at a couple of chain record stores, I can tell you that CDs tend to get priced in accordance to what labels think they can sell it for -- obvious enough. But this can vary from one artist to another, and from one localle to another. For instance, I've noticed one chain in particular, which has a very limited selection of almost nothing but current hit-oriented CDs, tends to price at an average of $17.99. That's pretty damned high, but this particular chain is found mostly in malls or major shopping areas, and caters towards the average mainstream consumer who's only interested in what's currently hot, who isn't inclined to seek out other retail outlets, and (most importantly) who doesn't know better than to shell out that much for a CD. (It can get worse than that; I've seen prices of $19.99 for single-CD sets by people like Roberta Flack and Page/Plant.) I know that at least one major chain used to vary the prices geographically -- that is, a store in an affluent suburban area would price items higher than a store in a lower-income region. Furthermore, stores that are more popular or more of an attraction due to size, selection, or what have you can sometimes get away with charging more since they tend to generate a certain amount of traffic and interest strictly by virtue of their localle and/or nature. (It's not always the store's choice, either; a distributor or label might insist on charging a large "attraction site" chain store branch more of a wholesale cost than they would charge John Doe's House of Rare and Imported Out-of-print Independent Vinyl, because they know that the former will be able to absorb the cost more, both in terms of their buying power and in terms of re-selling to their customer base). I've also noticed that independent stores generally price things at least one or two dollars lower than larger corporate chain stores; the flip side is that the chains generally have a larger selection (albiet one that might not overlap with that of a smaller specialty or indie-oriented store). It ultimately depends on what the motivations and needs of a label are. If somebody's selling a CD for $3 postpaid, they're definitely offering a substantial bargain. On the other hand, you've got to wonder how much of a profit they're making, or even if they're making a profit at all; a lot of smaller indie labels tend to operate in the red on a fairly regular basis. On the other hand, a major label is, by definition, a profit-driven venture and is therefore inclined to charge as much as they can for an item. If Capitol records can get away with putting an average price of $16.99 - $17.99 on the new Beastie Boys album and then watch it sell 681,000 copies in the first week alone (albiet at a reduced sale price), then they don't have much incentive to drop the cost. On the other hand, you'll have a hard time selling records by artists like Ui or Cul De Sac at *any* price since they're so obscure and hard-to-find, so they're liable to be priced lower. (I've seen some popular alternative acts get initial releases priced at $11.99, and then jump up to $16.99 once they become popular.) I've often heard it said that cassette tapes cost more to manufacture in bulk than CDs do, but of course that's not reflected in the retail world. For that matter it's not reflected in the manufacturing world, either: I've never seen an ad for a duplication or replication house that has offered lower prices on CDs than on cassettes. Either the stats about manufacturing costs are wrong (unlikely, as I've heard it quoted numerous times from numerous sources), or else replicators, labels, and just about everyone else does whatever they can get away with. I'd say that in the ever-thorny realm of trying to balance art and commerce, the question isn't "Are you going to get screwed," but rather, "Just how much are you going to get screwed?" --Andre From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:34:36 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id VAA25345; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 21:32:16 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 21:32:16 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199807300128.SAA27814@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: Software vs Hardware on Stage To: sgoodman@earthlight.net Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:28:36 -0700 (PDT) Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <000a01bdb415$8f30e0e0$5823dacf@stepheng> from "Stephen P. Goodman" at Jul 20, 98 12:35:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_lRCp1.0.b56.enylr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/772 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > only see using it for composition, since (and I know some will be pissed at > this) when you're playing a MIDI sequence, you're NOT performing, just > playing a previously-recorded sequence. I think people are becoming I'm not pissed, actually. :) Just wanted to point out that if you are actually doing something live, in realtime, with the MIDI sequence as it plays, then to me that would count as a performance. For example, you futz with the filter cutoff frequency, pitch bend, and LFO speed on the synth while the sequence is playing it. Or you hook up a processor to the synth's output and introduce delays, flange, etc. and manipulate the effect(s) on the synth as the sequence does its thing. Cheers, Paolo From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:34:42 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id WAA28993; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 22:09:21 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 22:09:21 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: "Thomas Wŋhni" To: , "Mike Biffle" Cc: Subject: Keyfax Phat.Boy Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 04:03:44 +0200 Message-ID: <01bdbb5e$47f1f0c0$8f084382@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"FFLrZ3.0.Y07.HLzlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/773 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hey all , just got back from vacation and had 418 msg`s from y`all. :-) When I tried to catch up with all the various threads I almost drowned, so I figure I might as well dive right in with some new stuff: In the July Issue of Future Music magazine I read about a controller for use with GM/XG/GS modules or AWE soundcards. This is called a Phat.boy , made by Keyfax. I never really understood any of this , but I believe it has something to do with "Continuous Controllers". Any help on what they are? After I heard the demo (CD in the magazine) it made me think that my trusty old AWE 32 card has more guts and power than I tought. Is there a way for me to "unleash" this midi/filter/GM power with my cubase secuencer? The stuff that the Phat.boy controlls are these parameters: 1. Filter cutoff 2.resonance 3.vibrato rate 4.vob. depth 5.vib. delay 6.reverb 7.chorus 8.attack 9.decay 10.sustain/portamento 11.release 12.pan 13.volume When I combed through the edit windows in cubase I only found stuff like: pan,volume,chorus and some others....... Any help on the matter?? yours , Thomas W From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:35:00 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id XAA02162; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 23:11:16 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 23:11:16 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35BFE3FE.AD183B56@texas.net> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 22:10:11 -0500 From: Bobdog Catlin Reply-To: psbuddha@texas.net Organization: Pseudo Buddha/Doghouse Ent. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers Delight Subject: CD pricing etc. Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------9669B810A7D657FEE6D6E4E3" Resent-Message-ID: <"Qgg4t2.0.UT.VF-lr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/774 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com for my own releases, since i know that there is limited audiencefor what i do, i'm planning on burning them myself, hand-painting the insert j-cards, & having numbered limited editions (ala steve roach dream circle, or zoviet france, or crash worship, or whoever else), and selling them at gigs or on the net for $10. this is not to be pretentious, but to be punk rock.  no label, no middleman, no crap.
i'll be treating these cd's like t-shirts or other merchandise, & what touring (or non-touring) band doesn't know that you make more $ from merch than you get paid by the club?
yes, my overhead is low. yes, i'm making profit per unit. but it's my music & if you are willing to shell out $10 after hearing the band, i think you'll find the cd's very nice.
i don't think making a couple of $ playing fun, strange, left-feild music is a bad thing.

the band that i'm a sideman in sells their cd's for usually 14.99 at most stores, list 16.99 or whatever. they sell enough of them to keep putting more out, so i guess that's a fair price, too.

i paid 17.99 for halycon days by roach/kent/newby & i think it's worth more.

it's all subjectivity                                   bobdog From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:35:06 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id AAA06869; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 00:02:24 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 00:02:24 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <00d901bdbb6e$5939d180$789efea9@stepheng> Reply-To: "Stephen P. Goodman" From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: Re: Software vs Hardware on Stage Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 20:58:43 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"YIwuL2.0.-b1.h--lr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/775 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hi Paolo, >Just wanted to point out that if you are actually doing something live, >in realtime, with the MIDI sequence as it plays, then to me that would >count as a performance. It of course depends on the artist and the relationship he/she has with the instruments at hand, of course. I was mainly addressing the idea that we are so often today dependant on aspects of technology for some things, and it sure caused some good discussion, eh? I've decided to try to approach the ambient show idea on my own, and then let people decide if they'd like to participate. Last week I was jawing this over with a friend, and the idea came up as, "why NOT make it a solo show?" After all, it's not like I don't have enough material! It's just that my idea originally involved a 6-8 hour stretch... Stephen. From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:35:08 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id AAB08514; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 00:20:36 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 00:20:36 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Nemoguitt@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 00:16:40 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: My Future in Looping Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"N5MlK1.0.Z_1.vF_lr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/776 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com mark.....all i listen to is stuff from the folks on the list here......i no longer have any idea as to what my music is like in comparison to others. i have lost any objective over-view as to what i am doing. i play things, that to me are a real treat, but no-one else hears my music. i seldom record anything any more. its music for me and GOD.....perhaps im lost, but i really don't care, for me it seems to be the creation of the moment.....do i see a future in looping? yes, but i have no idea as to where it is heading. i think i am thankful for this.............michael From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:35:15 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id BAA13644; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 01:07:23 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 01:07:23 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <021d01bdbb77$d3410d00$e9f1ffd0@artmusic.gte> From: "future perfect" To: Subject: Re: CD pricing etc. Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 01:06:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_021A_01BDBB56.4B45F760" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"Rp7-t2.0.U13.Nx_lr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/777 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com

Ha! Beat ya to it! My group, Future Perfect, did just that for our second CD release- recorded them at home direct to DAT, borrowed a friends CD burner and went to town copying them. We got a deal on the white/blue bulk CD-r's and each one has original artwork on the CD itself. Designed the printing at home, and took it to a local printer- cost $35 for the printing. We numbered each one, and even shrinkwrapped 'em- total cost to us, including DAT tape, printing, CD-r's was less than $250. Our first CD cost us with printing and studio time over $5000. Guess which one sells more...
We sell our CD's at gigs for $15 (no one needs to know what it cost us to make, besides, the quality of the recording-and hopefully the music- is what they are paying for). We also get a few sales via our website, but most of them are at shows. More power to ya- the price of CD duplication is crazy these days, and any way we can save money is more money we can use to buy the latest looping toys.
This is also a quick way of getting your music out into the world-it took us about 5 days, start to finish, as opposed to the year and a half for our first CD.
 
Dave Eichenberger
*********************************************************************
'Future Perfect' - art music - visit our website at:
http://home1.gte.net/artmusic/
 

for my own releases, since i know that there is limited audiencefor what i do, i'm planning on burning them myself, hand-painting the insert j-cards, & having numbered limited editions (ala steve roach dream circle, or zoviet france, or crash worship, or whoever else), and selling them at gigs or on the net for $10. this is not to be pretentious, but to be punk rock.  no label, no middleman, no crap.
i'll be treating these cd's like t-shirts or other merchandise, & what touring (or non-touring) band doesn't know that you make more $ from merch than you get paid by the club?
yes, my overhead is low. yes, i'm making profit per unit. but it's my music & if you are willing to shell out $10 after hearing the band, i think you'll find the cd's very nice.
i don't think making a couple of $ playing fun, strange, left-feild music is a bad thing.

the band that i'm a sideman in sells their cd's for usually 14.99 at most stores, list 16.99 or whatever. they sell enough of them to keep putting more out, so i guess that's a fair price, too.

i paid 17.99 for halycon days by roach/kent/newby & i think it's worth more.

it's all subjectivity                                   bobdog

From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:35:19 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id BAA15383; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 01:25:09 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 01:25:09 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: KRosser414@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 01:21:39 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: my future looping....PROCESS/Volume pedals Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Resent-Message-ID: <"V6h4H.0.ng3.5C0mr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/778 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com First off, I get immediately suspicious when I hear a musician talk about how much they don't like listening to other people's music. I've never known (or known of) a good musician with that attitude. Second, I think listening with the intent to somehow consume and digest the information is not necessarily a bad thing, but sometimes I think we forget to listen for no other reason than to just let ourselves be transported and disengage the will completely. And if you're going to stop and say, "This is great, I need to know what's making this work", analyze it as completely and deeply as possible. Memorize it, transpose it to all 12 keys, figure out what's making each different sound and why it works together. This way I think if you get past the surface and get really into the nuts & bolts, you come out with something you can use without imitating. Lastly, it's always struck me as very ironic that the ones that seemed the most fearful of sounding imitative are usually the ones that do sound the most imitative. I think if you go through a period of not being able to resist the pull to sound like someone you love, accept it, identify it, enjoy it and let it run its course, and know in the long run it's all part of the growth process > Eno (I think) had an interesting idea when he said that (paraphrasing > here) "originality" was an overated concept in western music . . . I don't > always agree, but I think that it's worth considering. I think it's justly rated when something original is something that has enough resonance to work on many levels, that 'originality' is not the only thing going for it. IMHO something that only goes for 'original' is one- dimensional, much in the same way some punk bands talked about getting across with nothing but 'energy'. Ultimately I've learned that trying to discuss the concept of originality with musicians is a lot like the parable of the five blind men trying to describe an elephant. > Sort of what creativity is about: analysis (learning what others did) into > synthesis (doing what you're going to do with it). (I know that there's > some sort of archetypal theory that has three steps - - I think that > these are two and three - - anybody help me out on number one?) The achetype as I heard it had three steps - analysis, assimilation - a 'gestation period' during which time you didn't consciously attend to it but let your subconscious ruminate on it while you did other things, and then practice, where you were consciously able to put the ideas into action. One more thing re: volume pedals - I use both an Ernie Ball and a Visual Sound that sound like they go to absolute zero to me unless you're playing at 20 times the volume I do Ken R From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:35:23 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id CAA20428; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 02:27:16 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 02:27:16 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Sender: mpeters@csi.com Message-ID: <01BDBB93.11B875D0.mpeters@csi.com> From: Michael Peters To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: AW: average loop music CD price Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:18:08 +0200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-Mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_3Ckc3.0.rx4.H71mr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/779 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > I can understand there is a higher set of operating costs involved in > exporting your work to another country, but is there still a reason to put a > base price of $12 on something that costs less than $2 to manufacture? The manufacturing costs aren't very high, but I also spent substantial amounts for the studios who helped getting my tracks into shape. * michael peters mpeters@csi.com * "escape veloopity" electronic guitar loop music * http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Mpeters From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:35:25 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id CAA20771; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 02:30:28 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 02:30:28 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35C012D1.6B4D4F3E@texas.net> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 01:29:38 -0500 From: Bobdog Catlin Reply-To: psbuddha@texas.net Organization: Pseudo Buddha/Doghouse Ent. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: My Future in Looping References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"O3EVP2.0.m15.MA1mr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/780 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com michael, that is the nicest point that could be made about your music, or anyones. nada brahma. bobdog From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:35:27 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id CAA21945; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 02:51:22 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 02:51:22 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: CORROSIVE@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 02:48:44 EDT To: Mark@asisoftware.com, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: EH Super Replay Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Resent-Message-ID: <"_YzAb1.0.rJ5.zT1mr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/781 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Mark- the EH super-replay is a 4 second sampler that DOES loop... and overdub on yer loops as well. (Instant replay is the 2 second version) The resolution goes down the longer the loops are- but in my humble opinion, super replay's are the koolest scrizzy lo-res underwater dinosaur looping machines ever made! From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:35:31 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id CAA22417; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 02:56:35 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 02:56:35 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: CORROSIVE@aol.com Message-ID: <79ac5d9e.35c01873@aol.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 02:53:38 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: (Gear-only) Volume pedals??? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Resent-Message-ID: <"r0845.0.tQ5.uY1mr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/782 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Bill- in my opinion, the big ol' chrome Morley optical sensor (as opposed to a pot) volume pedals are the best- smoothest, cut back to zero & long throw>>>>>>>greg From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:35:39 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id DAA23763; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 03:11:16 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 03:11:16 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Javier Miranda V." To: Subject: RE: Info on this??++ possible line of discussion? Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 00:10:04 -0700 Message-ID: <000a01bdbb89$1356a100$cdc2efd1@electra> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD051AC72@migarexch01.maritz.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"K3oK-1.0.Dm5.dm1mr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/783 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com If the EH Super Instant is the so called 2-second delay, then, yes, I used to have one; well, I still have it but don't use it. It's very good for delays, but kind of squeaky clean. It's got a maximum of a half second on hi-fi, I think, and up to 2 seconds on lo-fi. REally low fidelity. You could loop with it, but it sounds really industrial. But with a volume pedal it does wonders for textures, of course, combined with a chorus, flanger, etc. Live it's great, it's on the floor, a big old switch, but kind of delicate overall. Don't whack it around. | -----Original Message----- | From: Liebig, Steuart A. [mailto:LiebigSA@Maritz.com] | Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 1998 10:00 AM | To: 'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com' | Subject: Info on this??++ possible line of discussion? | | | Hey, | | Anybody out there have info about a EH Super Instant Replay? | | The questions that I have are about whether it's good for delays and/or | looping, its usablity in live situations . . . | | Any info would be most helpful. | | | | I'll try a possible line for discussion (may be old hat?) | | What are people doing in terms of looping right now (use now), | where do they | see/want to see themselves going with it (future use), how do they see | themselves getting there? All in terms of the hypothetical world of having | enough time to deal with the process. | | stig | | | From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 01:35:42 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id DAA25287; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 03:46:49 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 03:46:49 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <35C0241B.5B31@jupiter.chu-stlouis.fr> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 09:43:25 +0200 From: Malhomme Reply-To: o.malhomme@jupiter.chu-stlouis.fr X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re:sustainiac References: <199807300110.VAA22962@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"SFqQx.0.r56.MH2mr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/784 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I don't get it. What do you mean "even more wires coming from your guitar? Oh wait, i mixed up sustainiac and Fernandes sustainer... This last one doesn't add any wires to your instrument Olivier Malhomme From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 10:41:00 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id IAA01920; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:07:58 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:07:58 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Dpcoffin@aol.com Message-ID: <2aac5477.35c06108@aol.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:03:19 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: (Gear-only) Volume pedals??? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 84 Resent-Message-ID: <"iXLn51.0.FQ.F56mr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/785 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 7/29/98 7:36:25 PM, Bill wrote: >I have a (bargain-basement) Boss stereo volume pedal*, and it cuts signal off >all the way... maybe you HAVE gotten all the duds!! > >(* it's the blue and black one, plastic, no power - if I had it out instead of >packed away, I'd give you a model number!) I've got one of these and it IS the quietest one I have...but not totally. I have it connected to the ins of stereo looping delay, and when it's backed off completely, there is still a slight feed to the delay which accumulates noisily after several minutes of playing over the supposedly "held" delay. When the looper is actually in "hold" mode, this doesn't happen, but this is a much less versatile mode for what I do... I wonder if your pedal is truly any quieter? Thanks! David From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 10:41:02 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id IAA02396; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:14:36 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:14:36 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: PJBMHB@aol.com Message-ID: <9be7048.35c06300@aol.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:11:43 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: (Gear-only) Volume pedals??? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Resent-Message-ID: <"EgoVO.0.cY.2D6mr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/786 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com i used to have a boss stereo vol. pedal before i bought my morley. i really think the morleys are quieter and don't become noisy over time. it is nice not to have to mess with squirting stuff in the pot to quiet it down all the time. =-) PJ From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 10:41:06 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id IAA04098; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:47:13 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:47:13 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <2C396693FBDED111AEF60000F84104A71A638D@indyexch_fddi.indy.tce.com> From: Hoover Alan To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: average loop music CD price Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 07:43:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"Jgz1_1.0.yw._g6mr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/787 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In order to make something, you must sell your product with a profit. Assuming that the raw cost of making copies is $2, plus to cover the expense of studio time, mastering, etc., let's say it is $2. Since you want to make a profit, you would normally charge twice what it cost you. This used to be standard, but is being eroded in the equipment manufacturing industry, but not the software industry. That makes it $6 to the retailer, who also wants to mark up 100 per cent to cover his overhead. Now you have $12 at retail, assuming everybody gets "fair" markup. > I can understand there is a higher set of operating costs involved in > exporting your work to another country, but is there still a reason to put a > base price of $12 on something that costs less than $2 to manufacture? The manufacturing costs aren't very high, but I also spent substantial amounts for the studios who helped getting my tracks into shape. * michael peters mpeters@csi.com * "escape veloopity" electronic guitar loop music From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 22:54:56 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA08509; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 14:45:45 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 14:45:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35C078F4.B9538AE9@nyfac.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 14:45:24 +0100 From: nyfac2 Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com Organization: New York Film and Animation Inc / 3DV X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Cheapskate's opinion References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qPl_s.0.pw1._vBmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/804 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I have toss my votes in with the 5-10 dollar camp. I generally don't spend more than $13 on ANYONE'S cd, because I don't think they shoudl cost that much. Period. A great deal of the best cds I own can be bought with a minimum of fuss for less than $11. There are a few bands in my neck of the woods who sell their cds for $5 a piece, with nice artwork, and they sell a ton of them. I also think self released cds are primarily for promotion: Once you start selling in the thousands (I never have) then I would start worrying about it. But you are also talking to someone who loves to play in on local club that pays about what the taxi fare/gas money to get there costs because the place has no cover, and the beer is good and cheap. This place is on a busy street, surrounded by bars/clubs, and if you are good/lucky you can get forty walk-ins. Plus, I feel like a loser asking my friends to pay $10 to see me play. Trevor From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 22:55:03 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA11016; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:04:50 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:04:50 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35C07DDA.C5D073C7@nyfac.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:06:18 +0100 From: nyfac2 Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com Organization: New York Film and Animation Inc / 3DV X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Cheapskate again References: <001068DD.----@wj.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"akTyv2.0.bd2.VDCmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/807 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > >Why stop there? When you perform, just charge the venue 2/3ds less than the > >rest of the musicians in the town... > > Don't forget to lower your working wage at your day job as well so you'll be > cheaper than the rest of the employed work force. Therefore more desirable. My band is not my job. > I'm not about to bust my butt to evolve a concept and put together the > technology (low or hi) cart it to the gig (which is probably a very low paying > one), play for a group of people of whom maybe 25% show any respect for the > performance, then charge the price of a Big Mac, Fries and Coke for my CD! But how much profit does one realy make selling these cds? This is a real question. I guess I can see if you are a solo act (as many of us seem to be) but by the time you split the proceeds 4 or 5 ways... I would rather have more of them out there. Besides, how many of you out there have a few boxes of unsold cds sitting next to your couch? Lots of my friends do. > And what about art and soul? Only one other post has mentioned anything about > the esoteric nature of the commitment to an artistic process and it's possible > value. Art is priceless. I never figured I would make money doing this. I do it because I need to. > >>when I get my cd together, I am > >>going to price it more along the lines of $5 or less, so that more people > >>are likely to pick it up. > Unfortunately this will only devalue CD sales for the rest of us. I don't think it works that way, really. Music is unique to the individual- buying jazz band A's record is not going to stop me from buying country band B's record. It's not like Jolly Green Giant Frozen Peas vs. Birdseye Frozen Peas. > Either it is a sign of insecurity from a begginer or it is a price > gougeing tactic. Err... I know you weren't meaning this to be a jab, so I won't take it as one. Insecurity? That seems a bit ridiculous. And I don't think that Fugazi is trying to get even with Mariah Carrey because they sell their cds for 10-11 bucks a piece. > (Which has been disastrous in some trades like photography and > i.c. chip manufacturing.) The thought of a looper from the Pacific Rim making really cheap records and taking all our fans away just flashed in front of my mind's eye and made me chuckle. Think about it. And let me finish with this: I sincerely hope that we all do well for ourselves, to whatever standards we hold ourselves. Trevor From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 10:41:26 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id KAA11934; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:19:25 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:19:25 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199807301416.KAA21026@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: Re: Software vs Hardware on Stage/Sequencing LIve Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:12:43 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"b2KGH3.0.vr2.h18mr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/788 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > > only see using it for composition, since (and I know some will be pissed at > > this) when you're playing a MIDI sequence, you're NOT performing, just > > playing a previously-recorded sequence. I think people are becoming i always load the sequence LIVE on stage... thereby turning the seq. into a sort of looping device. Load it with improvised or written lines, then let it loop until.... AND - often putting the looping sequence into another, conventional DDL looper as well..... Just another attempt to humanize/randomize the tech stuff. andre' east From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 10:41:28 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id KAA13153; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:29:11 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:29:11 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:26:32 -0400 From: buzzard@world.std.com (Sean T Barrett) Message-Id: <199807301426.AA02186@world.std.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: RE: average loop music CD price Resent-Message-ID: <"23fvd2.0.083.tA8mr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/789 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >In order to make something, you must sell your product with a profit. >Assuming that the raw cost of making copies is $2, plus to cover the expense >of studio time, mastering, etc., let's say it is $2. Since you want to make >a profit, you would normally charge twice what it cost you. This used to be >standard, but is being eroded in the equipment manufacturing industry, but >not the software industry. That makes it $6 to the retailer, who also wants >to mark up 100 per cent to cover his overhead. Now you have $12 at retail, >assuming everybody gets "fair" markup. Great logic, but clearly the numbers are wrong, as CDs are supposed to be cheaper to manufacture than vinyl LPs were. As you should recall, it was claimed when CDs were introduced that their significantly higher cost was a temporary measure until they became popular. Apparently, though, they determined that the market would bear the higher price, so they didn't bother lowering it. It's basically the law of supply and demand when there's no competition. (Sure, there's plenty of competition for your generic music dollar, but if you want to buy an album from musician Z, you pay a price determined by the sole manufacturer of that music.) Sean From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 10:41:34 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id KAA14823; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:44:08 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:44:08 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199807301441.XAA07529@pop1.osk.3web.ne.jp> X-Mailer: Macintosh Eudora Pro Version 3.1.1-J Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 23:32:03 +0900 To: analogue@hyperreal.org, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Sunao Inami Subject: Streaming from our recording studio Resent-Message-ID: <"qsD4C2.0.0Z3.xO8mr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/790 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hi, I will take a recording session for TIME CONTROL next album at 31 July. (Our 1st album in store now for world wide.it released from Sub Rosa,Belgium. URL is http://www.subrosa.net) We will live streaming the sounds from our recording studio in Kobe via Real Audio system. The broadcasting time is PM1:00 - PM 6:00(Japanese time). G.M.T time is 31 July AM 4:00 - AM 9:00 I think.. Broadcast URL is pnm://210.163.123.36/liverecord.rm Please enjoy making of our newest stuff by Real Player 5.0 or later with 288k or higher modem. if you have any comments when our recording,Please write to our guestbook, http://www.threeweb.ad.jp/~cave/contents.html What is the band,TIME CONTROL? please visit to: http://210.167.212.35/TC/ btw, A few days ago,I tested Real audio live encoding. It need about 6sec for encode to decode(encoder -> real server -> probably many routers -> decoder). I can use it for delay machine.Internet delay loop ;) Regards Sunao Inami E-mail cave@osk.3web.ne.jp URL"cave home" http://www.threeweb.ad.jp/~cave/ tel&fax "CAVE Studio" +81 794 89 5025 Hyogo,Japan From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 10:41:39 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id KAA16384; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:56:43 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:56:43 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199807301453.XAA10003@pop1.osk.3web.ne.jp> X-Mailer: Macintosh Eudora Pro Version 3.1.1-J Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 23:41:15 +0900 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Sunao Inami Subject: Streaming from our recording studio Resent-Message-ID: <"c573M1.0.mv3.Ja8mr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/791 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hi, I will take a recording session for TIME CONTROL next album at 31 July. (Our 1st album in store now for world wide.it released from Sub Rosa,Belgium. URL is http://www.subrosa.net) We will live streaming the sounds from our recording studio in Kobe via Real Audio system. The broadcasting time is PM1:00 - PM 6:00(Japanese time). G.M.T time is 31 July AM 4:00 - AM 9:00 I think.. Broadcast URL is pnm://210.163.123.36/liverecord.rm Please enjoy making of our newest stuff by Real Player 5.0 or later with 288k or higher modem. if you have any comments when our recording,Please write to our guestbook, http://www.threeweb.ad.jp/~cave/contents.html What is the band,TIME CONTROL? please visit to: http://210.167.212.35/TC/ btw, A few days ago,I tested Real audio live encoding. It need about 6sec for encode to decode(encoder -> real server -> probably many routers -> decoder). I can use it for delay machine.Internet delay loop ;) Regards Sunao Inami E-mail cave@osk.3web.ne.jp URL"cave home" http://www.threeweb.ad.jp/~cave/ tel&fax "CAVE Studio" +81 794 89 5025 Hyogo,Japan From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 22:55:29 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA21844; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:58:55 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:58:55 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35C08A6F.97465979@nyfac.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 16:00:00 +0100 From: nyfac2 Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com Organization: New York Film and Animation Inc / 3DV X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Gig income References: <2.2.32.19980730192244.006f92a8@mail.dada.it> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"t950Z1.0.PD5.r_Cmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/816 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I remember this one country-punk band I was in made almost $300 at one show and $250 before that. All my friends were agape at the huge haul. Personally, I would rather get 20 free drink tickets and 20 free entries into the same club to see other shows. trevor From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 10:41:43 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA17550; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 11:05:58 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 11:05:58 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <2C396693FBDED111AEF60000F84104A71A6390@indyexch_fddi.indy.tce.com> From: Hoover Alan To: "'buzzard@world.std.com'" Cc: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: average loop music CD price Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:02:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"hn1TE.0.tB4.zi8mr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/792 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Sean- I think you are right about the competition part. I was playing devil's advocate just to illustrate the additional costs involved in bringing a product to market. (Also, my numbers were wrong due to a typo. I meant to add $1 for studio time, mastering, not $2, making the total original cost $3. Actually, to this must be added overhead, advertising, etc.) Clearly, the cost of software (any kind) to the consumer is much higher than many manufactured products, considering original cost vs. retail price. Certainly for most electronic products. Not for drugs, for example, and other manufactured products. In the case of CD's vs. vinyl, the cost of CD's has stayed way up while the cost of producing them has gone way down. Record companies certainly own monopolies on particular performers. An individual can record a CD and market him/herself, and keep the price down. But individuals don't have ready access to the market machine like record companies do. Record companies pay a high price to gain this access, which is a significant part of their cost. They get a following for their product, and are able to sell it at whatever the market will pay. There is probably a certain amount of "price-fixing", too. I think that the many "mini-monopolies" is the key. The system works, basically. You don't have to pay $17 for a CD. You don't have to pay $100+ for a Bulls ticket, either. -----Original Message----- From: buzzard@world.std.com [mailto:buzzard@world.std.com] Sent: Thursday, July 30, 1998 9:27 AM To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: RE: average loop music CD price >In order to make something, you must sell your product with a profit. >Assuming that the raw cost of making copies is $2, plus to cover the expense >of studio time, mastering, etc., let's say it is $2. Since you want to make >a profit, you would normally charge twice what it cost you. This used to be >standard, but is being eroded in the equipment manufacturing industry, but >not the software industry. That makes it $6 to the retailer, who also wants >to mark up 100 per cent to cover his overhead. Now you have $12 at retail, >assuming everybody gets "fair" markup. Great logic, but clearly the numbers are wrong, as CDs are supposed to be cheaper to manufacture than vinyl LPs were. As you should recall, it was claimed when CDs were introduced that their significantly higher cost was a temporary measure until they became popular. Apparently, though, they determined that the market would bear the higher price, so they didn't bother lowering it. It's basically the law of supply and demand when there's no competition. (Sure, there's plenty of competition for your generic music dollar, but if you want to buy an album from musician Z, you pay a price determined by the sole manufacturer of that music.) Sean From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 10:41:47 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA19044; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 11:15:52 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 11:15:52 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: David Evans Message-Id: <199807301511.LAA03190@barrow.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: Internet as a delay (was Re: Streaming from our recording studio) To: cave@pop1.osk.3web.ne.jp (Sunao Inami) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 11:11:28 -0400 (EDT) Cc: analogue@hyperreal.org, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <199807301441.XAA07529@pop1.osk.3web.ne.jp> from "Sunao Inami" at Jul 30, 98 11:32:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"XkgSe3.0.KX4.As8mr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/793 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Sunao Inami wrote: > > btw, > A few days ago,I tested Real audio live encoding. > It need about 6sec for encode to decode(encoder -> real server -> probably > many routers -> decoder). > I can use it for delay machine.Internet delay loop ;) > Now *that* is one of the craziest effects ideas I've ever heard of! -- David Evans (NeXTMail/MIME OK) dfevans@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca Computer/Synth Junkie http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/ University of Waterloo "Default is the value selected by the composer Ontario, Canada overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 10:41:51 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA19977; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 11:22:51 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 11:22:51 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <00d301bdbbcd$ea8ad9e0$d3f2ffd0@artmusic.gte> From: "future perfect" To: Subject: Re: average loop music CD price Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 11:21:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"Lqu64.0.so4.Cz8mr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/794 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >> I can understand there is a higher set of operating costs involved in >> exporting your work to another country, but is there still a reason to put >a >> base price of $12 on something that costs less than $2 to manufacture? > >The manufacturing costs aren't very high, but I also spent substantial >amounts >for the studios who helped getting my tracks into shape. > >* michael peters mpeters@csi.com >* "escape veloopity" electronic guitar loop music though i am not a looper, i play music with a looping guitarist, so i just gotta say: :) pricing art is TOTALLY different from pricing a pair of pants made in indonesia for a penny. not only are you paying for 'the studios who helped get the tracks into shape', you're paying for the expertise of the artist, the collective time and money the artist has put into the work.........ALL the years of training................how can we all sit around and devalue our work like this? frankly the going rate for a CD bought brand new in a commercial chain is at least $15. why sell mine for less? i happen to believe the music i make is easily as good as what is being produced by major manufacturers. i bet there are lots of others on the list who may feel the same way. i am also lucky that in my area most independent artists are selling their CD's for $10-$15. this is a good thing. in addition, i think if you're selling your product very cheaply this gives the consumer the idea that what you have to sell isn't very good. Misha ********************************************************************* 'Future Perfect' - art music - visit our website at: http://home1.gte.net/artmusic/ From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 10:41:58 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA21476; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 11:38:30 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 11:38:30 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <35C093A4.4099@mdbs.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:39:16 -0500 From: "Dennis W. Leas" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; U) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Internet as a delay (was Re: Streaming from our recording studio) References: <199807301511.LAA03190@barrow.uwaterloo.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"SvFW93.0.4C5.vB9mr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/795 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com This rings a bell. In the distant past, I heard of a scheme by some branch of the U.S. military (perhaps the Army) to produce a database "site" which would be always secured against natural disaster, etc. The idea was to transmit the data (in an encoded form) via radio to the moon, the signal would rebound from the moon and echo back to the earth where it would be regenerated and re-transmitted, hence forming a long, recirculating, delay loop. Cool idea, probably never implemented. It opens up all kinds of strange and wonderful ideas for "alternate technology" looping. You could set up long acoustic delay lines, using perhaps long wires or railroad tracks. I like the idea of the Internet as a delay (it usually functions as a delay anyway :) ). I read a book some time past where a person in Australia set-up transducers on long telegraph lines and "listened" to the environment. He spoke of it as a very Zen-like thing, like having your nervous system stretching for miles across the country-side. He could hear "ticks" as the wire heated up due to the morning sun, birds landing on the wire and clouds of insects colliding. I found it fascinating to read...but I ramble. - Dennis Leas David Evans wrote: > > Sunao Inami wrote: > > > > btw, > > A few days ago,I tested Real audio live encoding. > > It need about 6sec for encode to decode(encoder -> real server -> probably > > many routers -> decoder). > > I can use it for delay machine.Internet delay loop ;) > > > > Now *that* is one of the craziest effects ideas I've ever heard of! > > -- > David Evans (NeXTMail/MIME OK) dfevans@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca > Computer/Synth Junkie http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/ > University of Waterloo "Default is the value selected by the composer > Ontario, Canada overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 22:55:41 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA29205; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 17:07:47 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 17:07:47 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35C09A5A.564E13E5@nyfac.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 17:07:54 +0100 From: nyfac2 Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com Organization: New York Film and Animation Inc / 3DV X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: average loop music CD price References: <9bfde6f.35c0dd2c@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"PULam2.0.z07.Q_Dmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/818 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Crossedout@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 98-07-30 11:22:35 EDT, you write: > > << pricing art is TOTALLY different from pricing a pair of pants made in > indonesia for a penny. >> > > Super Devil's Advocate Position - there is no difference. If you offer art for > sale, then it's not just art, it's commerce as well. You want art to remain > priceless? Then don't taint it with commercialism - give it away for free or > don't sell it. Or sell it for the price of the reproduction. tdb From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 10:42:04 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA26359; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:30:39 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:30:39 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 09:20:39 -0700 Message-ID: <00106677.----@wj.com> From: Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle) Subject: Re[2]: My Future in Looping To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, Nemoguitt@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"BSnyi1.0.kM6.ny9mr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/796 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >From Neomguitt@aol.com... >mark.....all i listen to is stuff from the folks on the list here......i no >longer have any idea as to what my music is like in comparison to others. i >have lost any objective over-view as to what i am doing. i play things, that >to me are a real treat, but no-one else hears my music. i seldom record >anything any more. its music for me and GOD.....perhaps im lost, but i really >don't care, for me it seems to be the creation of the moment.....do i see a >future in looping? yes, but i have no idea as to where it is heading. i think >i am thankful for this.............michael I kind of feel similar to this! I've been having the most fun playing in a completely unstructured and non-goal oriented way. I'm pretty obsessive about getting my gear into a configuration which inspires me to play and is easy to move. That said, it's pretty easy to want to then push to get out there and use it. It's important for me to take stock of what the *real* chemistry is between me and the other people I choose to play with, or the environment I choose to play in. Then to remember to count my blessings and respect those few people and places which invoke in me the subtle and sublime. I'm very thankful for those moments of clarity in an otherwise demanding practice! 8-> The mention above of God does indeed remind me of the esoteric nature of music. -miko From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 10:42:05 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA30947; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:18:41 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:18:41 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Crossedout@aol.com Message-ID: <45bbaa4d.35c0aa35@aol.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:15:31 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: AW: average loop music CD price Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Resent-Message-ID: <"7wPXi.0.OV7.yfAmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/797 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 98-07-30 02:27:01 EDT, you write: << The manufacturing costs aren't very high, but I also spent substantial amounts for the studios who helped getting my tracks into shape. >> True, true - but the reason Warner Brothers prices a cd at $14 is not because they spent x amount of dollars on the production of that cd, or recording that cd - it's because they have so many salaries and so many huge contracts with big artists that all the other artists have to subsidise. We could go round and round - personally, when I get my cd together, I am going to price it more along the lines of $5 or less, so that more people are likely to pick it up. This is very similar to a discussion I once heard about bands touring and selling t-shirts - you will sell a lot more shirts for $5 then for $15 - and every shirt is free advertising. Well, assuming you make good music, more people will pay $5 than $15 for a cd, and if they like it, they will tell people about it. And how much did studio time cost you? How many discs are you going to press? - Bill Crossedout@aol.com From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 11:19:58 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA02186; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:54:45 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:54:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Sender: mpeters@csi.com Message-ID: <01BDBBF2.E318B950.mpeters@csi.com> From: Michael Peters To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: AW: average loop music CD price Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 19:18:12 +0200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-Mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"k6Iic3.0.rP.fABmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/800 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > pricing art is TOTALLY different from pricing a pair of pants made in > indonesia for a penny. > not only are you paying for 'the studios who helped get the tracks into > shape', you're paying for the expertise of the artist, the collective time > and money the artist has put into the work.........ALL the years of > training................how can we all sit around and devalue our work like > this? good point. thanks for putting this so clearly. * michael peters mpeters@csi.com * "escape veloopity" electronic guitar loop music * http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Mpeters From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 11:19:57 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA02008; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:53:55 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:53:55 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Sender: mpeters@csi.com Message-ID: <01BDBBF2.E6289160.mpeters@csi.com> From: Michael Peters To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: telegraph wires Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 19:32:16 +0200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-Mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VD_k21.0.kO.BABmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/799 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > I read a book some time past where a person in > Australia set-up transducers on long telegraph > lines and "listened" to the environment. > He spoke of it as a very Zen-like thing, like > having your nervous system stretching for > miles across the country-side. He could hear > "ticks" as the wire heated up due to the > morning sun, birds landing on the wire and clouds > of insects colliding. this guy is called Alan Lamb, his CD 'Primal Image', the label 'Dorobo 008'. If you're into, say, *very* wild Fripp soundscapes or other more adventurous listening, you'll like it. Definitely check it out if you can find it. It doesn't contain loops in the strict sense though. * michael peters mpeters@csi.com * "escape veloopity" electronic guitar loop music * http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Mpeters From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 11:19:49 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA01423; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:50:06 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:50:06 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <012301bdbbe2$74079960$d3f2ffd0@artmusic.gte> From: "future perfect" To: Subject: Re: AW: average loop music CD price Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:49:50 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"ahwoz1.0.ZH.y6Bmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/798 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Why stop there? When you perform, just charge the venue 2/3ds less than the rest of the musicians in the town...I am happy the working musicians in this area (Tampa Bay, FL) have all kept the cost of their CDs between $10-$15. This helps all of the musicians, and when people buy the CDs, they know what to expect to pay. Personally, in the year and a half since the first CD came out, and the scores of shows Ive done since, I have not noticed anyone passing on the CD because it was 'too expensive'. People are used to spending around $15 for a CD no matter where they buy it. I do not think what I spent my own money and sweat on is only worth $5. CD's are not a source of advertising to me, (thats why I make flyers and have a website) ; they are a good source of income. If you don't think you are worth as much as whats out there, chances are your audience won't think so either. Dave Eichenberger ********************************************************************* 'Future Perfect' - art music - visit our website at: http://home1.gte.net/artmusic/ >True, true - but the reason Warner Brothers prices a cd at $14 is not because >they spent x amount of dollars on the production of that cd, or recording that >cd - it's because they have so many salaries and so many huge contracts with >big artists that all the other artists have to subsidise. > >We could go round and round - personally, when I get my cd together, I am >going to price it more along the lines of $5 or less, so that more people are >likely to pick it up. This is very similar to a discussion I once heard about >bands touring and selling t-shirts - you will sell a lot more shirts for $5 >then for $15 - and every shirt is free advertising. Well, assuming you make >good music, more people will pay $5 than $15 for a cd, and if they like it, >they will tell people about it. > >And how much did studio time cost you? How many discs are you going to press? > >- Bill >Crossedout@aol.com > From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 11:32:43 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA05645; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 14:23:30 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 14:23:30 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <45bbaa4d.35c0aa35@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 11:05:16 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: AW: average loop music CD price Resent-Message-ID: <"D4fVb3.0.lJ1.XcBmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/801 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 10:15 AM -0700 7/30/98, Crossedout@aol.com wrote: >We could go round and round - personally, when I get my cd together, I am >going to price it more along the lines of $5 or less, so that more people are >likely to pick it up. This is very similar to a discussion I once heard about >bands touring and selling t-shirts - you will sell a lot more shirts for $5 >then for $15 - and every shirt is free advertising. Well, assuming you make >good music, more people will pay $5 than $15 for a cd, and if they like it, >they will tell people about it. the problem with your logic there is good ol' supply and demand. You may hardly sell any more at $5 than you would at $7 or $10 or $15. You could easily just be ripping yourself off, and missing out on an opportunity to make a living off your music. and I agree with Misha. why not put value on your own creative abilities and output? Isn't that really the thing you are selling and the thing people are paying for? I've got plenty of shiny cd's around to look at, I don't need more of those. The thing I would pay you for is the music you created, as compensation to you for your ability to create it. I want the ARTIST to get a good portion of the money I pay, I don't want it all going to pay the bill at the CD manufacturing plant. That's nuts. I also agree that I tend to see someone only charging $3 or $5 for a whole cd as someone who must have a rather low opinion of themselves. If you don't think you are worth anything more than that, why would I want to listen to it? I'm actually more likely to buy a new cd that's $10-$15 than a new one in the bargain bin. I figure it must be cheap so they can clear the unsellable junk out of inventory. I imagine that's not the impression you're trying to give! kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 22:54:58 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA09020; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 14:48:45 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 14:48:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 11:32:28 -0700 Message-ID: <001068DD.----@wj.com> From: Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle) Subject: Re[2]: AW: average loop music CD price To: , "future perfect" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"SD0l3.0.q_1.yxBmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/805 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com David Eichenberger wrote... >Why stop there? When you perform, just charge the venue 2/3ds less than the >rest of the musicians in the town... Don't forget to lower your working wage at your day job as well so you'll be cheaper than the rest of the employed work force. Therefore more desirable. >I am happy the working musicians in this area (Tampa Bay, FL) have all kept the >cost of their CDs between $10-$15. This helps all of the musicians, and when >people buy the CDs, they know what to expect to pay. (snip.....) >snip.... If you don't think you are worth as much as whats out there, chances >are your audience won't think so either. >>Bill (Crossedout@aol.com)... >>True, true - but the reason Warner Brothers prices a cd at $14 is not >>because they spent x amount of dollars on the production of that cd, or >>recording that cd - it's because they have so many salaries and so many huge >>contracts with big artists that all the other artists have to subsidise. For me it's not about how much excess baggage the record company has to carry around... I'm not about to bust my butt to evolve a concept and put together the technology (low or hi) cart it to the gig (which is probably a very low paying one), play for a group of people of whom maybe 25% show any respect for the performance, then charge the price of a Big Mac, Fries and Coke for my CD! And what about art and soul? Only one other post has mentioned anything about the esoteric nature of the commitment to an artistic process and it's possible value. >>We could go round and round - personally, when I get my cd together, I am >>going to price it more along the lines of $5 or less, so that more people >>are likely to pick it up. This is very similar to a discussion I once heard >>about bands touring and selling t-shirts - you will sell a lot more shirts for >>$5 then for $15 - and every shirt is free advertising. Well, assuming you make >>good music, more people will pay $5 than $15 for a cd, and if they like it, >>they will tell people about it. Unfortunately this will only devalue CD sales for the rest of us. I'd be suspicious of any tradesperson pricing their work too far off of existing market value.Either it is a sign of insecurity from a begginer or it is a price gougeing tactic. (Which has been disastrous in some trades like photography and i.c. chip manufacturing.) >>And how much did studio time cost you? How many discs are you going to >>press? From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 22:54:54 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA08494; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 14:45:35 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 14:45:35 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <2C396693FBDED111AEF60000F84104A71A6395@indyexch_fddi.indy.tce.com> From: Hoover Alan To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: another EDP footpedal question Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:40:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"TiG-V2.0.9v1.PvBmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/803 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Switchcraft makes these "interlocking" switches, which automatically restore any previously-actuated switch to its "off" position. Its series 35000 "Littel Multi-Switch" can be bought with 1 to 18 switches. They are push-buttons in a line, not footswitches. I suppose you could rig up some kind of footpedal actuator which wouldn't damage the pushbuttons. Switchcraft is in Chicago. 312-631-1234. I don't know if the area code is still accurate. They have distributors all over the US, including Mouser. -----Original Message----- From: Chris Chovit [mailto:cho@newdream.net] Sent: Monday, July 30, 1956 1:31 PM To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: another EDP footpedal question Thanks for all the quick replies! I have several free catalogs on the way. Here's another (more challenging) question: I am trying to figure out how to switch one footpedal between multiple Echoplex DP's? Sure, for 2 EDP's, an A/B box works great......for 3 'plexes, 2 A/B boxes can work. But then, it starts to get confusing, because I can forget which one I'm on (I usually have to mute the loop to figure this out). Also, sometimes I have to hit more than one button to switch EDP's (& this would get worse, using more EDP's & A/B boxes). What I envision, is to use several switches (one for each EDP), and by hitting a (only one) switch, it switches the connection from my footpedal to that EDP. (Of course, it would also have to switch OFF the connection to the previous EDP, as well). Here are other features that would be great to have: From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 22:55:00 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA09544; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 14:52:37 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 14:52:37 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: TritoneDW@aol.com Message-ID: <3cc2baec.35c0bfbe@aol.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 14:47:24 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: AW: average loop music CD price Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 56 Resent-Message-ID: <"QFZB92.0.dC2.30Cmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/806 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 98-07-30 14:23:19 EDT, you write: << I also agree that I tend to see someone only charging $3 or $5 for a whole cd as someone who must have a rather low opinion of themselves. >> Or it might be that they have a different opinion about the value of commodities in general. Look at a band like Fugazi--they've got their own label, and they never charge more than $8 for a CD. They also are sure to play all ages shows, and exert whatever influence they can to assure that the door charge is affordable. In this case, their pricing comes from altruistic/socialist socio-political views (music for the people, and whatnot), not from a lack of self-esteem. I think you could argue CD pricing strategies any number of different ways, depending on how you see the world. If you want to offer "music for the masses" in a socialist sense, price 'em low. If you put a high value on your art, and if you think your music can compete in the marketplace, price 'em high. Personally, I think we all know how much CDs cost to produce, so we're less likely to be fooled into paying $18 for a single CD. And we are sort of our own market with this kind of music. I mean, no offense, but no one here is trying to knock Madonna off the charts, right? Between $8 and $12 seems like a fair price for everyone, both musician and consumer. Caveat emptor, and so forth, Drew Wheeler From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 22:55:07 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA17224; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:30:29 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:30:29 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980730192244.006f92a8@mail.dada.it> X-Sender: cavallo@mail.dada.it X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 21:22:44 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Leonardo Cavallo Subject: Re: Cheapskate's opinion Resent-Message-ID: <"_w2Nx3.0.v24.IZCmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/810 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Talking about prices... How much can a pro/semi-pro musician earn for a standard live gig, there in US? I'd like to know.... ciao leo From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 22:55:09 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA17583; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:32:24 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:32:24 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Sender: mpeters@csi.com Message-ID: <01BDBC00.B09E05D0.mpeters@csi.com> From: Michael Peters To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: average loop music CD price ... recalculated Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 21:25:03 +0200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-Mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kNHZe.0.4C4.-cCmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/811 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > And how much did studio time cost you? How many discs are you going to press? 300 CDs (just got them fresh from the factory). That's the lowest possible number for 'real' CDs (not CDROMs) you can have made here in Germany. I also assume that the production price situation might be somewhat different from the one in the US. For the CD/printing production, I paid about 990 American $ (assuming that the Dollar is 1.80 German DMs at the moment). I've done the graphics myself, but paid $152 for the films. Studio costs (this is a widely varying item of course) were $1640 altogether (yes, an awful lot, largely due to my lack of experience, and the fact that these recordings weren't originally meant to be published on CD, and a lot of postprocessing had to be done). Unless I forgot something, this looks like I spent about $2782 for 300 CDs, = $9,30 per CD. I also need distributors, at least outside of Germany, and especially in the US. Do you think distributors are willing to get only $5,70 per CD so that it can be sold for $15? Otherwise I'll either lose money ... unless I sell it for more than $15. I know I won't become rich with my music, but I'd love to at least get even, maybe make some more additional bucks ... (p.s. I was the one who started this thread, asking for reasonable prices.) * michael peters mpeters@csi.com * "escape veloopity" electronic guitar loop music * http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Mpeters From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 22:55:14 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA18522; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:37:49 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:37:49 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <2C396693FBDED111AEF60000F84104A71A6396@indyexch_fddi.indy.tce.com> From: Hoover Alan To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Cheapskate's opinion Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 14:33:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"SAOh41.0.BS4.9iCmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/812 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I know a real good bluegrass group here in Indianapolis (no loopers) who play for free pizza at a restaurant. Their CD's sell for about $10. They sell a few. I know of another band, lead guitar player named K. Richards, who play for about $1M per gig. Their CD's sell for about $17. They sell millions. Somewhere in between would be typical. -----Original Message----- From: Leonardo Cavallo [mailto:cavallo@dada.it] Sent: Thursday, July 30, 1998 2:23 PM To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Cheapskate's opinion Talking about prices... How much can a pro/semi-pro musician earn for a standard live gig, there in US? I'd like to know.... ciao leo From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 22:55:18 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA19904; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:49:23 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:49:23 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980730194428.006eed0c@mail.dada.it> X-Sender: cavallo@mail.dada.it X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 21:44:28 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Leonardo Cavallo Subject: RE: Cheapskate's opinion Resent-Message-ID: <"TmOzr3.0.5o4.5tCmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/813 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 14.33 30/07/98 -0500, you wrote: >I know a real good bluegrass group here in Indianapolis (no loopers) who >play for free pizza at a restaurant. Their CD's sell for about $10. They >sell a few. I know of another band, lead guitar player named K. Richards, >who play for about $1M per gig. Their CD's sell for about $17. They sell >millions. > >Somewhere in between would be typical. > uhmm... is the same guy named K.Richards using a jamman 32 secs and playing a solo looping set? ciao leo PS ;) >-----Original Message----- >From: Leonardo Cavallo [mailto:cavallo@dada.it] >Sent: Thursday, July 30, 1998 2:23 PM >To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >Subject: Re: Cheapskate's opinion > > >Talking about prices... > >How much can a pro/semi-pro musician earn for a standard live gig, there in >US? > >I'd like to know.... > >ciao >leo > > > > From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 22:55:25 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA21253; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:56:24 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:56:24 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:47:18 -0700 Message-ID: <001069DA.----@wj.com> From: Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle) Subject: Re: Cheapskate again To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, nyfac2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"B26kt2.0.n65.dzCmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/815 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >>>Why stop there? When you perform, just charge the venue 2/3ds less than the >>>rest of the musicians in the town... >> Don't forget to lower your working wage at your day job as well so you'll be >> cheaper than the rest of the employed work force. Therefore more desirable. >My band is not my job. I'm assuming that it's possibly integrated with your self image and soul. Which in my book come first before the day job. The day job is my means to an end. If there's no time for that end, then the job has compromised my efforts. I'd say that if you're *never* going to place a price on your art, great. But the second you play out though you start to deal with marketplace considerations and their long range impact on how you do your art. Do you want more time for your art? It might be good idea to consider that a day job and family will ultimately compete with time left over for that art. The only place time will come from in the future to support your art is from the day job. That equals money lost, and less ability to support yourself and family. Time is finite and so is money... There are some hard realities to deal with if music is a true commitment which you want to endure throughout your life. It's really worth something, and worth careful consideration of real world cost of living and doing business issues. Even if it is for the people. There has to be a form of reasonable exchange. >> I'm not about to bust my butt to evolve a concept and put together the >> technology (low or hi) cart it to the gig (which is probably a very low >>paying one), play for a group of people of whom maybe 25% show any respect for >>the performance, then charge the price of a Big Mac, Fries and Coke for my CD! >But how much profit does one realy make selling these cds? This is a real >question. I guess I can see if you are a solo act (as many of us seem to be) >but by the time you split the proceeds 4 or 5 ways... I would rather have more >of them out there. Besides, how many of you out there have a few boxes of >unsold cds sitting next to your couch? Lots of my friends do. Well I just don't see it as being about subtracting the price of mfg. CD's from your asking price. You still have to consider other intangibles like time spent, continuance of future projects etc. >> And what about art and soul? Only one other post has mentioned anything about >> the esoteric nature of the commitment to an artistic process and it's >> possible value. >Art is priceless. I never figured I would make money doing this. I do it >because I need to. I'm not questioning your motivation, just your long term vision. If one needs to do something, I would assume there would be a cost involved in actually doing it. I know artists sometimes do desperate things to continue their art. It's not a crime to consider how one might do that art *and* actually have time as well as a visible means of support. I still argue that art has real monetary value and should be part of any sensible society's budget. Socialist or Capitalist. Musicians in earlier phases of the biz got ripped off because of they wanted to play so bad, without regard to the consequences. >>>when I get my cd together, I am >>>going to price it more along the lines of $5 or less, so that more people >>>are likely to pick it up. >> Unfortunately this will only devalue CD sales for the rest of us. >I don't think it works that way, really. Music is unique to the individual- >buying jazz band A's record is not going to stop me from buying country band >B's record. It's not like Jolly Green Giant Frozen Peas vs. Birdseye Frozen >Peas. I'm not talking about style here, I'm talking about money. I won't pay any more for a country CD than a free-improv one! 8-> >> Either it is a sign of insecurity from a begginer or it is a price >> gougeing tactic. >Err... I know you weren't meaning this to be a jab, so I won't take it as one. >Insecurity? That seems a bit ridiculous. And I don't think that Fugazi is >trying to get even with Mariah Carrey because they sell their cds for 10-11 >bucks a piece. You're right. Politics... I wasn't considering that. Sorry. Fugazi has had a great run and their ethics do speak well of them. Even in a socialist society one would expect that not only would there be cheap prices on CD's, bit that one's cost of living would be cheaper in all other respects as well. That's clearly not the case here in the U.S. If you wish that to be the case, I'd charge the higher prices on the CD's to finance your lobbying efforts elsewhere! 8->. >> (Which has been disastrous in some trades like photography and >> i.c. chip manufacturing.) >The thought of a looper from the Pacific Rim making really cheap records and >taking all our fans away just flashed in front of my mind's eye and made me >chuckle. Think about it. Again, I'm talking about compromising the price of *all* CD's. Not about stealing fans. Just compromising public perception of what a fair and reasonable asking price for a CD is. (Hey... I'm on the Pacific Rim... are you talking about me?! 8->) >And let me finish with this: I sincerely hope that we all do well for >ourselves, to whatever standards we hold ourselves. >Trevor Absolutely! best -miko From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 22:55:22 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA20444; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:52:00 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:52:00 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD051AC87@migarexch01.maritz.com> From: "Liebig, Steuart A." To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: CDs Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 14:49:00 -0500 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Resent-Message-ID: <"vSM2j.0.zu4.bvCmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/814 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I think that $10 is cool for the independently produced CD. I think that it can offest your costs, enable you to use some for promotional copies (i.e., radio, print crits, etc. - - I know that this means that the consumer has to help you defray these costs, but they may not know that you exist unless you do this sort of thing), and hopefully enable you produce another CD. $10 is also an easier amount . . . no change involved, can be put together with one or two bills mosre often than not. I often give discounts if people by all three of my band's CDs. ($10 each, or $27 or so for the three.) I also tend to do trades with other like-minded artists . . . sometimes this is more satisfying to me . . . I'm glad that someone mentioned the work put in by the artist . . . this was a debate that was on another e-mail list that I participate in . . . we shouldn't (IMHO) devalue our work, our intellectual property when dealing with these sorts of things. stig From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 22:55:38 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA27868; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 16:56:58 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 16:56:58 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Crossedout@aol.com Message-ID: <9bfde6f.35c0dd2c@aol.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 16:52:58 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: average loop music CD price Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Resent-Message-ID: <"f-3aw2.0.5h6.WrDmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/817 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 98-07-30 11:22:35 EDT, you write: << pricing art is TOTALLY different from pricing a pair of pants made in indonesia for a penny. >> Super Devil's Advocate Position - there is no difference. If you offer art for sale, then it's not just art, it's commerce as well. You want art to remain priceless? Then don't taint it with commercialism - give it away for free or don't sell it. - Bill Crossedout@aol.com From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 22:55:47 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA30495; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 17:20:04 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 17:20:04 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Crossedout@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 17:17:13 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: CD prices and my whole point Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Resent-Message-ID: <"QOOaB2.0._O7.PCEmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/819 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com God, I didn't know what kind of nickel I was dropping in the jukebox.... My entire point with all this is based in the fact that I am coming from (I would assume from the other posts to this list) a somewhat different background, a more extreme-music and punk-rock background. I started to wonder, when I started getting into punk, why the metal bands I listened to sold their lps or discs for $10-$15, t-shirts for $15-$20, while I could go to a punk show and pick up lps' and shirts for $6, 7"'s for $3 and cd's for $7-$8. Far from making me think "boy, they really don't value their work", it made me think "wow, I can pick up this lp I was looking for, as well as these that look interesting from bands I've never heard". It also impressed me that these people could make a decent product, sell it to me for a decent price, and not gouge me for an extra $7 just because I might be used to paying $15 for a cd. I think the Fugazi argument is the perfect example - here's a man (Ian MacKaye) making good music, supporting a scene he has roots in, helping other bands and labels get their start, and charging $8 or $9 for a disc, postpaid. And he makes enough to spit in the eye of major labels that come offering him blank checks for the privelage of releasing (and profiting off of) Fugazi records. I stand by my arguments - I think that M. Peters has a valid reason for selling his stuff at a premium, as he has almost $10 US invested in each disc. For him, I'd suggest investigating other sources, if at all possible, for obtaining your discs. But for someone like me, who has acess to ADAT's, DATs and a disc burner.... I'd feel bad about charging more than a few dollars for someone to hear my music. If I can release something so people can hear it, and make enough to cover my costs, then I'll be happy. If you want to make money off of the fruits of your labor and the investment you've made into your art, then you have trancended the realm of art for arts' sake and are involved in commerce. It's that simple. If you make stuff and sell it, or accept money for performance, you are involved in commercial transactions.... AND THAT'S FINE!! I THINK THAT'S A WONDERFUL SITUATUION, and god bless anyone that can pull it off. But don't give me an argument that says "my art is worth more than your art"... what you're really saying is "my product is worth more than your product". Art is in the doing and the enjoyment, either by and for yourself or anyone else who hears you. Making a living off of it is commerce. - Bill *somehow, I don't think this is the end of it* Crossedout@aol.com From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 22:55:54 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA00183; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 17:45:28 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 17:45:28 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <022401bdbc03$6acebf60$d3f2ffd0@artmusic.gte> From: "future perfect" To: Subject: Re: average loop music CD price Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 17:45:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"FHmLZ2.0.t-7.1aEmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/820 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >> << pricing art is TOTALLY different from pricing a pair of pants made in >> indonesia for a penny. >> >> >> Super Devil's Advocate Position - there is no difference. If you offer art for >> sale, then it's not just art, it's commerce as well. You want art to remain >> priceless? Then don't taint it with commercialism - give it away for free or >> don't sell it. i never said anything about art being priceless. yes, it is commerce as well. but my art is worth more than a pair of pants you buy at walmart. i have no intention of giving away what i do. money is just a form of energy. making music and recording music takes a lot of energy. a society is in deep trouble when artists are relegated to playing for free and giving away their products. >Or sell it for the price of the reproduction. nope. Misha From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 22:57:02 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id VAA27131; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 21:48:10 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 21:48:10 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35C0EA33.9772772D@mailbox.syr.edu> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 21:48:44 +0000 From: Mark Sottilaro Reply-To: msottila@mailbox.syr.edu Organization: League of cranky old men. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: hello References: <199807310103.VAA15725@garden.WPI.EDU> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"QW-xa.0.ea6.g7Imr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/827 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com There is only one chip for memory in the Jamman. To upgrade to 32 sec. you need a different chip, not more chips. They're pretty cheap at this point. Not sure how to get them anymore. Mark joseph devlin wrote: > hi, my name is joseph devlin. i have recently acquired a lexicon > jamman, after having read about it on the loopers delight webpage. > > i have a question regarding this device, and i would appreciate > any help i can get. i opened up my jamman and looked inside, to check > the memory. all of the slots are full, so i am assuming that it > is maxed out. > > however, ive been using it for a while now. i have been trying out > the sampling mode, and i can only record for eight seconds. shouldnt > i be able to record a 32 second sample with full memory expansion? > > anyways, ive got to run, but id still like to say thanks in advance. > > joe From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 22:56:00 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id SAA03498; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 18:21:11 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 18:21:11 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: klaw@iglou.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199807291835.LAA24724@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> References: <05fb01bdbb1b$210308c0$c5b854ce@mark.asisoftware.com> from "Mark Kata" at Jul 29, 98 02:03:02 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: My Future in Looping Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 18:18:37 -0400 Resent-Message-ID: <"H0OA83.0.hn.R5Fmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/821 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >> Perhaps I should stop listening to anyone else's music. Perhaps I should >> cloister myself with my gear and deny myself from playing anything I already >> know. >> >> Any ideas? >I would say get out & play (loop) with other like- minded musicians >anywhere anytime anyhow you can. I do as much as possible -play >gigs-collaborate /record improvise& My pool of possible collaborators >seems to increse weekly.Drummers guitaristshornplayers >electronicnoisemongers etc.Networking is the key & while I enjoy doing >loops of my own as much as anything(I did a penultimate bass feed back >drone loop using a electric hairbrush & the new Ebow last night).I put >playing with people on a 1st priority I also concur on trying new things >-new methods- I play with prepared National steel as much as i do with >looping guitar & using a sampler but I have a distinct voice on all of >these.Nothing wrong with taking lessons from a really great accomplished >player you may know-Im going to be doing that soon Im constantly wanting >to improve my abilities as a musician-technical stuff-the other stuff >(creativity new ideas,electronic knowhow,)seems to come easier >thankfully.What am I doing now & what is the future? Im very excited about >my recent loop improvising with a awesome drummer here.I just released my >first DIY cd yes lots of gtr sampling looping on there,Preparing my next >Cd for release in afew months time.Im relly excited about all the really >useful features the EDP has to offer and after 3 yrs still finding new >things. Loopig Acoustic instruments (gtr,autoharp,hunters bow)I ve also >developed a new way of using samples in live performance.Rather than using >a sequencer ,I am programming varios control schemes using EMU E6400& >pc1600 great results last gig!Im blessed to live in a city(Louisville) >with so many creatiive and responsive people.Glad to see more activity on this list! K LAW From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 22:56:09 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA07955; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 19:04:41 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 19:04:41 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <199807302255.PAA09550@scv4.apple.com> Subject: CD Pricing policy Date: Thu, 30 Jul 98 17:57:32 -0600 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"4NEM03.0.Zs1.AkFmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/822 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Reading through the recent spate of posts regarding this topic, ("My Art is EASILY worth $16" vs. "Cheap music for the workers!"), I'm half-reminded of a quote whose source I can't place: "He's the sort of man who'd rather have nothing than settle for less." and: "Fifteen minutes of us is worth any sum of money."--one of the members of the Jesus And Mary Chain, responding to criticism regarding fifteen-minute gigs at full price. Travis (For the record, I sell my CD's for $5, which reflects roughly a 100% profit margin. I sell so few, it doesn't really make much of a difference to my bottom line. I doubt that tripling my price would really improve my fiscal balance sheet.) From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 22:56:42 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id UAA19893; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 20:58:04 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 20:58:04 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 19:55:35 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199807310055.TAA19850@mw3.texas.net> X-Sender: sharkey@mail.texas.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: james rhodes Subject: CD Pricing/ Value in content Resent-Message-ID: <"FUd062.0.Mo4.bOHmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/823 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com my CDs are priced as follows: with rude sick horrid lyrics of lust and other crude acts --- $6.66 with words of love and kindness to all that inhabit the cosmos--- $7.00 with the voices of people who do not even know they are singing---$9.99 with the reincarnated voice of Elvis ---$inquire james From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 22:56:47 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id VAA21167; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 21:06:24 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 21:06:24 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: joseph devlin Message-Id: <199807310103.VAA15725@garden.WPI.EDU> Subject: hello To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 21:03:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"aifKJ2.0.935.vVHmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/824 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com hi, my name is joseph devlin. i have recently acquired a lexicon jamman, after having read about it on the loopers delight webpage. i have a question regarding this device, and i would appreciate any help i can get. i opened up my jamman and looked inside, to check the memory. all of the slots are full, so i am assuming that it is maxed out. however, ive been using it for a while now. i have been trying out the sampling mode, and i can only record for eight seconds. shouldnt i be able to record a 32 second sample with full memory expansion? anyways, ive got to run, but id still like to say thanks in advance. joe From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 22:56:53 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id VAA25187; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 21:32:32 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 21:32:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Nemoguitt@aol.com Message-ID: <952e0d70.35c11dce@aol.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 21:28:44 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: CD Pricing/ Value in content Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"yh6vq2.0.A46.PuHmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/825 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com every front has a back...........great to see so many posts.....michael From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 22:56:57 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id VAA26090; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 21:39:01 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 21:39:01 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980731013659.00ea2e4c@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 18:36:59 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: RE: CD prices and my whole point Resent-Message-ID: <"lFH4C.0.CJ6.m-Hmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/826 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 05:17 PM 7/30/98 EDT, Crossedout@aol.com wrote: >God, I didn't know what kind of nickel I was dropping in the jukebox.... > >My entire point with all this is based in the fact that I am coming from (I >would assume from the other posts to this list) a somewhat different >background, a more extreme-music and punk-rock background. It seems to me though, that the punk/DIY message was never about considering your own creative effort as worth $0. It's about cutting all the middlemen out and becoming self-sufficient. And it's about making sure you get a good return for the work you've done, rather than all them money going to someone else who did nothing to create the music. (which _is_ a socialistic/worker's rights position, BTW.) To me, punk is a powerful statement about supporting yourself on your own music, on a small scale. It's not about starving to death or working in a shoe store so that you can play for free while other people make money on your efforts. (whether they be major labels or just the CD manufacturer or the bar owner...). >I think the Fugazi argument is the perfect example - here's a man (Ian >MacKaye) making good music, supporting a scene he has roots in, helping other >bands and labels get their start, and charging $8 or $9 for a disc, postpaid. >And he makes enough to spit in the eye of major labels that come offering him >blank checks for the privelage of releasing (and profiting off of) Fugazi >records. to me, Fugazi (and numerous others like them) is a perfect example of a group that *does* value their artistic effort, and clearly adds something in their pricing so that they can survive (or thrive) entirely off their music. What they did is cut all the other people's profit margins out of the equation, so that a fan's money mostly goes to the band. They clearly didn't cut their *own* profit margin out, which is what some people seem to be arguing for. To me (and I imagine I'm not alone here...) the ideal would be to spend all of my time and energy on music and other things I really enjoy doing, and have those things provide me enough income to live on. That's infinitely better than prostituting myself at an unfulfilling job that pays well so that I can support my passions on the side, assuming I can even find any time or energy left to do music at all. (that's my life now...bleh....) Combine the passions and the income source, that's a goal for me. It happens I live in an area with a lot of artists. (burned out industrial area, live/work spaces, etc...) A lot of them are successfully making a living doing the art they love. They always seem to radiate with a sort of happiness and fulfillment and energy about their life that's pretty inspiring. If you talk to them, you find that reaching that point was difficult. There's the obvious thing that being a successful artist is just hard anyway. But they always say that one of the most difficult struggles is within, in convincing yourself that what you do creatively does have value, that money is a fair exchange for art, and that it's ok to ask people to pay for it. It seems to me there are people struggling with that idea here. >I stand by my arguments - I think that M. Peters has a valid reason for >selling his stuff at a premium, as he has almost $10 US invested in each disc. >For him, I'd suggest investigating other sources, if at all possible, for >obtaining your discs. But for someone like me, who has acess to ADAT's, DATs >and a disc burner.... I'd feel bad about charging more than a few dollars for >someone to hear my music. If I can release something so people can hear it, >and make enough to cover my costs, then I'll be happy. Yeah, but to me as a consumer, if I like your music, I want *you* to have my money in exchange. I don't want to just know that I covered your costs. Then I'm just paying the company that manufactured the CD, who I don't care about. I want you to keep making music that I like, or maybe I just want to pay you for the entertainment or pleasure you gave me in creating something I liked. I don't think I'm alone in placing value on these things. If it was worth something to me I'm happy to pay for it. In fact, many people will probably feel mildly guilty about taking it for nothing. (although I might be alone in that if a musician I like tries to charge me $5 for a cd of their music I'd pay them $10 or more and refuse the change. I also give money to street musicians in exchange for the entertainment they give me....I'm crazy like that....) Don't feel bad about charging for it! Give yourself some credit. If you put a lot of creative energy into your music and people like it, they'll be happy to support you. Give them a chance to do so. If you are worried about excluding people who don't have much cash, charge a sliding scale. You'll probably be surprised how many people pay the top of the range. kim ________________________________________________________ Kim Flint, MTS 408-752-9284 Chromatic Research kflint@chromatic.com http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 22:57:28 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id AAA12872; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 00:47:13 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 00:47:13 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 00:44:17 -0400 From: buzzard@world.std.com (Sean T Barrett) Message-Id: <199807310444.AA17544@world.std.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: average loop music CD price ... recalculated Resent-Message-ID: <"gcDSk.0.c53.8lKmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/830 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At a certain point, when you've already spent the money, you may want to ignore the profit question and focus on the cash flow question. If you can't sell 300 CDs at a profit, you may well decide to mark them down to less than what you made for them. Beats have them sitting in a box under your bed for the rest of your life. Of course, the point of this exercise was for you to try to guess what the market would bear. If you can create a market for your music, sure, you might sell them for $20 a pop. It doesn't seem very likely to me that you could get distributors to sign up for that price unless they know there's that market, since if you're not priced 'competitively' there'd be low odds of them ever getting sold. In some sense, you really just have to price them based on what the market would bear independent of what you put in. If you were to have spent $30 US per CD in the act of creating them, I think that would be pretty obvious. Let's look at the numbers. >300 CDs (just got them fresh from the factory). That's the >lowest possible number for 'real' CDs (not CDROMs) you can >have made here in Germany. By getting the lowest number, you're getting the _worst_ price/unit on the production costs. >For the CD/printing production, I paid about 990 American $ In this case, about $3.30 per unit. Suppose you could get 1000 for $2 a unit instead. (That's 2x as much money for 3x as much product. Maybe that's not plausible.) >I've done the graphics myself, but paid $152 for the films. The 'films' I take it is a one-time cost (it's the source from which things are printed). So the cost is fixed. The unit price for 300 is $0.50; for 1000 it's $0.15. >Studio costs (this is a widely varying item of course) >were $1640 altogether The studio costs, of course, won't change if you press more CDs. So, 300 CDs, the studio is costing you $5.50 a unit. 1000 CDs it would be costing you $1.64. >Unless I forgot something, this looks like I spent about $2782 for 300 CDs, = >$9,30 per CD. So I come out to: 300 CDs: $3.30 reproduction $0.50 films $5.50 studio time $9.30 TOTAL 1000 CDs: $2.00 reproduction (guess) $0.15 films $1.64 studio time $3.80 TOTAL This is not to say that you *should* have gotten 1000 CDs. If you end up selling fewer than 300, you've definitely saved yourself money. But in this particular case, it's clearly the studio costs that are making things difficult. Here's a different way to analyze the scenario. Often people evaluate these situations by 'break-even point': how many CDs do you have to sell before you've recovered your money. Suppose you accept that you can't get that $9.30 that you'd need to to get your money back. Suppose you say, 'Ok, heck, I'm willing to price them such that if I sold *600* I'd make all my money back'. How can this affect the price you sell the first 300? Assume you sell the first and second 300 (if the second were ever to happen) at the same price. The the cost of the studio times and film can be leveraged over both printings: 300 CDs, done twice: $3.30 reproduction (same as before) $0.25 films (1/2, because we're splitting the cost) $2.75 studio time (1/2) $6.30 TOTAL Here, you don't leverage the advantage of getting cheaper reproduction by printing more at once, but you leverage the initial investment across both printings. With the above number, if you sold only 300, you'd end up getting back $1900, which is $900 short of what you wanted to make. If you then printed another 300 (cost: $1000), you'd be $1900 in the hole--so you'd break even after selling the second 300. Another, similar, way of looking at is this: you *oops* spent way too much money in the studio (for a CD selling so few copies). Maybe rather than passing that cost on to the consumer, you should chalk that up to experience. Pick an amount of money you should or could have spent in the studio, and evaluate your "true" investment that way. For example, you could write off the studio costs entirely ("the experience I gained is worth what it cost me"). Then you're only trying to make back the $990 + $152, which means about $3.80 per CD. Alternately, you could say, "I could/should have done it for $600"--that brings it to $5.80 per CD. It's all just silly numbers, in the end. For everyone who was saying, "hey, don't devalue your music, it's worth more than X"--keep in mind the previous thread in which it was discussed how much of that "more than X" all those poor souls with "real" record contracts are seeing. Sean From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 22:57:32 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id BAA16720; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 01:14:14 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 01:14:14 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: TritoneDW@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 01:10:31 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: hello Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 56 Resent-Message-ID: <"Oj2nH2.0.x-3.38Lmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/831 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com In a message dated 98-07-30 21:06:15 EDT, you write: << i have a question regarding this device, and i would appreciate any help i can get. i opened up my jamman and looked inside, to check the memory. all of the slots are full, so i am assuming that it is maxed out.>> I've got a maxed out Jammie myself--here's how it works: you need to replace the 4 ZIP-ICs that are in there with 4 1MegX4bit ZIP-ICs. You just swap out the current chips for new ones. I can't remember if they are supposed to be static or page ICs, or what speed they should be. This info might be on the Loopers Delight website, check that out. I, like an IDIOT, bought mine from Lexicon, and thus got RIPPED OFF (I think I payed about $175 for the upgrade). You can get them much cheaper through other suppliers, although I can't tell you who. People on this list know, perhaps someone would be kind enough to post a cheap, reliable source for JamMan memory. Happy Jammin', Drew From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 22:57:37 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id BAB20505; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 01:47:41 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 01:47:41 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: mhamburg@elroy Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 22:43:49 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: mhamburg@Adobe.COM (Mark Hamburg) Subject: Source for Oberheim Echoplex Resent-Message-ID: <"mNBXz.0.Hw4.2dLmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/832 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com So far, the only place I've been able to find that sells the EDP is Thoroughbred Music in Florida. They want $640 according to their web site ($700 according to their summer catalog). This seems a bit higher than what I've seen people mention on the list. Does anyone have any recommendations for where to get this piece of looping nirvana? In particular, are there any dealers -- and more specifically any good dealers -- in the Monterey Bay or San Francisco Bay areas that carry it? Thanks. Mark -- Then I need to start worrying about how to lay my hands on a Vortex. From ???@??? Fri Jul 31 01:43:29 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id CAA23469; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 02:15:43 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 02:15:43 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Sender: mpeters@csi.com Message-ID: <01BDBC5A.880F3B20.mpeters@csi.com> From: Michael Peters To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: AW: average loop music CD price ... recalculated Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 08:07:04 +0200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-Mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"I-yVy2.0.ef5._1Mmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/834 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com thanks for the very helpful post, Sean. Yes I think you're right. If I should manage to sell a second 300, I'll break even. If not, not. It was a good experience anyway, and important for me as a musician. > With the above number, if you sold only 300, you'd end up > getting back $1900, which is $900 short of what you wanted > to make. If you then printed another 300 (cost: $1000), > you'd be $1900 in the hole--so you'd break even after selling > the second 300. > It's all just silly numbers, in the end. * michael peters mpeters@csi.com * "escape veloopity" electronic guitar loop music * http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Mpeters From ???@??? Fri Jul 31 01:43:25 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id CAA22367; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 02:05:24 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 02:05:24 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35C15FE8.1CC3@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 23:10:52 -0700 From: scott kungha drengsen X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: websites and cd sales Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"uYNsg3.0.IP5.duLmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/833 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I was wondering how many of you out there with sites and CD's to sell were set up to accept credit cards and if this made a difference in sales? There seems to be quite a difference for me between hits and sales and I wondered if this was everyones usual experience? From ???@??? Fri Jul 31 01:43:32 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id CAA23872; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 02:17:17 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 02:17:17 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35C16025.5AA134A5@cyber-dyne.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 23:11:49 -0700 From: Marc Roche X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Source for Oberheim Echoplex References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zUwv-.0.Qi5.63Mmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/835 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Eight street music in Philadelphia sold me an EDP for $529---I think that's the best price you'll find. Ciao, salaam. Mark Hamburg wrote: > So far, the only place I've been able to find that sells the EDP is > Thoroughbred Music in Florida. They want $640 according to their web site > ($700 according to their summer catalog). This seems a bit higher than what > I've seen people mention on the list. > > Does anyone have any recommendations for where to get this piece of looping > nirvana? In particular, are there any dealers -- and more specifically any > good dealers -- in the Monterey Bay or San Francisco Bay areas that carry > it? > > Thanks. > Mark > > -- Then I need to start worrying about how to lay my hands on a Vortex. From ???@??? Fri Jul 31 01:43:50 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id DAA28994; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 03:29:10 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 03:29:10 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Javier Miranda V." To: Subject: RE: websites and cd sales Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 00:27:52 -0700 Message-ID: <000a01bdbc54$ba8b2d80$24c5efd1@electra> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: <35C15FE8.1CC3@earthlink.net> Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"MtG-p2.0.W17.I7Nmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/836 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com What's the right way to hook up credit-card approval in your website? Is that a third-party involved or it's just from your website to the bank? Thanks for any advice. | -----Original Message----- | From: scott kungha drengsen [mailto:kungha@earthlink.net] | Sent: Thursday, July 30, 1998 11:11 PM | To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com | Subject: websites and cd sales | | | I was wondering how many of you out there with sites and CD's to sell | were set up to accept credit cards and if this made a difference in | sales? There seems to be quite a difference for me between hits and | sales and I wondered if this was everyones usual experience? | | From ???@??? Fri Jul 31 01:43:59 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id DAA31357; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 03:58:35 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 03:58:35 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: doug@mail.lightlink.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000a01bdbc54$ba8b2d80$24c5efd1@electra> References: <35C15FE8.1CC3@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 03:55:18 -0400 To: , From: Doug Wyatt Subject: RE: websites and cd sales Resent-Message-ID: <"IyWev.0.gc7.MYNmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/837 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 0:27 -0700 7/31/98, Javier Miranda V. wrote: > What's the right way to hook up credit-card approval in your website? Is >that a third-party involved or it's just from your website to the bank? > > Thanks for any advice. > > | -----Original Message----- > | From: scott kungha drengsen [mailto:kungha@earthlink.net] > | Sent: Thursday, July 30, 1998 11:11 PM > | To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > | Subject: websites and cd sales > | > | > | I was wondering how many of you out there with sites and CD's to sell > | were set up to accept credit cards and if this made a difference in > | sales? There seems to be quite a difference for me between hits and > | sales and I wondered if this was everyones usual experience? Unless you're making a lot more money than I am, accepting credit cards directly is an expensive proposition and not worth it. I use Kagi and am totally happy with them. They take a few percentage points (as do the credit card companies), send you orders by email, and you ship them and receive a check in the mail every now and then. There are other similar organizations. Doug -- Doug Wyatt doug@sonosphere.com Sonosphere (electric/improv music) http://www.sonosphere.com/ "Accidental Beauties" CD release: http://www.sonosphere.com/wyatt/ available from CMC, 1-800-882-4262 http://www.MusicDiscoveries.com/ From ???@??? Fri Jul 31 09:50:05 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id IAA15856; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 08:12:23 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 08:12:23 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <002201bdbc5a$947f6f60$a48232cc@manda> From: "Gerry P" To: Subject: Re: Source for Oberheim Echoplex Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 08:09:43 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"yKG6s1.0.hp3.VGRmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/839 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Got my from "8th St. Music" last month for much less than your quote. 1-800-878-8882 http://www.8thstreet.com/ I have since been dealing them - their prices are great as well as their staff - I have dealt with Randy. Also, loaded up with RAM from Mushkin - which at the time was the cheapest I could find on the net - and works perfectly. http://www.mushkin.com/cgi-bin/mushkin.storefront Regards Gerry -----Original Message----- From: Mark Hamburg To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Friday, July 31, 1998 5:49 AM Subject: Source for Oberheim Echoplex >So far, the only place I've been able to find that sells the EDP is >Thoroughbred Music in Florida. They want $640 according to their web site >($700 according to their summer catalog). This seems a bit higher than what >I've seen people mention on the list. > >Does anyone have any recommendations for where to get this piece of looping >nirvana? In particular, are there any dealers -- and more specifically any >good dealers -- in the Monterey Bay or San Francisco Bay areas that carry >it? > >Thanks. >Mark > >-- Then I need to start worrying about how to lay my hands on a Vortex. > From ???@??? Fri Jul 31 01:49:04 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id EAA02155; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 04:47:35 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 04:47:35 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 01:31:01 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Source for Oberheim Echoplex Resent-Message-ID: <"wisKl.0.gT.5GOmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/838 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 10:43 PM -0700 7/30/98, Mark Hamburg wrote: >So far, the only place I've been able to find that sells the EDP is >Thoroughbred Music in Florida. They want $640 according to their web site >($700 according to their summer catalog). This seems a bit higher than what >I've seen people mention on the list. that seems pretty typical, I think. >Does anyone have any recommendations for where to get this piece of looping >nirvana? In particular, are there any dealers -- and more specifically any >good dealers -- in the Monterey Bay or San Francisco Bay areas that carry >it? Try Bananas at Large in San Rafael, they often have them in stock: Bananas at Large 1504 Fourth Street San Rafael, CA 94901 Phone (415)457-7600 http://www.bananas.com kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Fri Jul 31 09:50:07 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id IAA17796; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 08:32:46 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 08:32:46 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35C1B8EF.728BD0A5@vm.temple.edu> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 08:30:39 -0400 From: "Sean O'Donnell" Reply-To: sodonne@vm.temple.edu Organization: Temple University Center for Research in Human Development and Education X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: hello References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"oTOW6.0.RH4.hZRmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/840 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com See Data Memory Systems (DMS) at . That's where I got my upgrade chips. They only cost me $45 plus shipping. They've worked great for six months through plenty of gigs so I am confident that they're the real deal. Sean TritoneDW@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 98-07-30 21:06:15 EDT, you write: > > << i have a question regarding this device, and i would appreciate > any help i can get. i opened up my jamman and looked inside, to check > the memory. all of the slots are full, so i am assuming that it > is maxed out.>> > > I've got a maxed out Jammie myself--here's how it works: you need to replace > the 4 ZIP-ICs that are in there with 4 1MegX4bit ZIP-ICs. You just swap out > the current chips for new ones. I can't remember if they are supposed to be > static or page ICs, or what speed they should be. This info might be on the > Loopers Delight website, check that out. > > I, like an IDIOT, bought mine from Lexicon, and thus got RIPPED OFF (I think I > payed about $175 for the upgrade). You can get them much cheaper through other > suppliers, although I can't tell you who. People on this list know, perhaps > someone would be kind enough to post a cheap, reliable source for JamMan > memory. > > Happy Jammin', > > Drew From ???@??? Fri Jul 31 09:50:18 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id KAA28227; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:10:13 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:10:13 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <35C1D065.2940@mdbs.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 09:10:45 -0500 From: "Dennis W. Leas" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; U) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: My Future in Looping References: <05fb01bdbb1b$210308c0$c5b854ce@mark.asisoftware.com> from "Mark Kata" at Jul 29, 98 02:03:02 pm Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jsJWX3.0.Fp6.r-Smr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/841 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com klaw@iglou.com wrote: > >I ve also > >developed a new way of using samples in live performance.Rather than using > >a sequencer ,I am programming varios control schemes using EMU E6400& > >pc1600 great results last gig! This sounds interesting. Can you describe this in more detail? - Dennis Leas From ???@??? Fri Jul 31 09:50:26 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id KAA00683; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:51:03 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:51:03 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Storypod@aol.com Message-ID: <699a1068.35c1d90e@aol.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:47:40 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: looping with Protools on the Mac Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Resent-Message-ID: <"cEoOV2.0.Z5.LbTmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/842 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com As an 'old school' looper in the late '70's (two spaced 4-track reel-to- reels), it's surprised even me how hooked I've gotten on Protools in the last year or so. So much so, that I recently bit the big bullet and upgraded to their PT24 system. While we're not talking 'traditional' looping in the sense of simple realtime looping (I'll never get rid of my EDP), these software recorder/editors open up a whole new concept of looping, which I'm sure a lot of you people are exploring. You can grab a phrase (or a piece of a loop) and simply paste copies of it back-to-back in endless, and completely editable permutations. With the multitrack capabilities, you can overlay more tracks or loops. While there isn't the 'instant gratification' of a dedicated looping box, the flexibility and absolute control over the elements you're using is addictive. The prices of these software packages (especially for PC's) is coming down all the time, they're getting to be a great value (since they're really complete recording studios in a box). My Protools 4.1 software and hardware combo (the Audiomedia 3 computer card with analog and dig. ins and outs, and some cool fx software) was 'only' around $850 (I'm going to sell my 6-month old pkg for about $500). And I guess some of the PC pkgs (I'm a dedicated Mac guy) are even cheaper. Cool stuff... Tim Story (storypod@aol.com) From ???@??? Fri Jul 31 09:50:34 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA02310 for kflint@annihilist.com; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 11:03:44 -0400 Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 11:03:44 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-From_: BCOWAN@cowanbol.usa.com Fri Jul 31 11:03:34 1998 Received: from mork.lansoft.net (mork.lansoft.net [206.101.106.242]) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA02278 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 11:03:34 -0400 Message-Id: <199807311503.LAA02278@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Received: from reliant.lansoft.net ([206.101.106.11]) by exidor.lansoft.net with SMTP id 0050B4D1; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 11:06:21 Eastern Daylight Time From: BCOWAN@cowanbol.usa.com (Bob Cowan), mail@interhub.com (Dennis W. Leas) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: My Future in Looping, Re: My Future in Looping Old-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 98 10:44:00 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: LANsoft Interhub (http://www.lansoft.com) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-description: Message Body Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-HOP-COUNT: 1 Sender: BCOWAN@cowanbol.usa.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Envelope-To: Loopers-Delight ======== Original Message ======== klaw@iglou.com wrote: > >I ve also > >developed a new way of using samples in live performance.Rather than using > >a sequencer ,I am programming varios control schemes using EMU E6400& > >pc1600 great results last gig! This sounds interesting. Can you describe this in more detail? - Dennis Leas ======== Fwd by: Bob Cowan ======== pls remove me from this mailing list From ???@??? Fri Jul 31 09:50:37 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA08177; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 11:49:28 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 11:49:28 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: klaw@iglou.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <35C1D065.2940@mdbs.com> References: <05fb01bdbb1b$210308c0$c5b854ce@mark.asisoftware.com> from "Mark Kata" at Jul 29, 98 02:03:02 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: My Future in Looping Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 11:46:34 -0400 Resent-Message-ID: <"SQMGO.0.2v1.uRUmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/844 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >klaw@iglou.com wrote: >> >I ve also >> >developed a new way of using samples in live performance.Rather than using >> >a sequencer ,I am programming varios control schemes using EMU E6400& >> >pc1600 great results last gig! > >This sounds interesting. Can you describe this in more detail? > >- Dennis Leas Yeah be happy to.The current EOS allows you to use 8 different divisions of the clock (internal or external)as a modulation source.This "cord" as its referred to can be applied to pitch, sample retrig,filter cutoff, lfo rates & many other targets to metion here.Rather than using my sequencer to play a piece ,I set the constant midi clock output from it as a timing reference.Ive set up multiple voices(samples with processing)stacked on top of each other & crossfading them.This creates a complex sereies of rythmic melodic relationships that I can set up to bleed into each other or chop on off in accordance to the midi tempo coming from the sequencer.This of couse means I can sync this whole gyrating sonic thunderstorm with a real live human drummer or band for that matter.I set up many different midi controllers on the Emu (some usual stuff :ptch,filteretc and some not so unusual like smming all the clock divisors and choosing how much one (or more )will affect the samples.THis is contolled by the 1600 with faders & footpedals I also have a Dbeam.I use analog drum loops, guitar chiffs ,field recordings usually taken from tapes or dats etc in the sampler & its cool to switch the samples while playing one of these "sequences"that adds yet another truly improvisation element because the content changes but maintains rhythmic integrity.Its actually possible to take one sample & get dozens of radical permutations using the cords matrix in the EOS.I also program screwwd up sampling patches in my Etide to stretch & warp layers of sound independently from others.Everthing supports the other very well,everone usually gets along.thats the good thing about it.Thats why Im keeping my Emu for now-cant do this with any other sampler-Maybe Kurzweil? ok KYMA but lets not get into that.THe basic gist of it is I wantsd to get away from playing preprogrammed midi sequences live & really improvise with the sampler & its great.My goal is to merge live instruments & sampling to create a new organic sound like you here it & it doesnt sound" electronic" but it is .This whole thing came together so quickly (however through months of expiermentation)setting up controllers isnt easy .You have to go to each EOS preset & manually assign them .No way to copy. BTW I sucessfully looped a aux feed from the board back into my looping rig .Going to do this in a more acoustic setting (becomes pretty unstable loud)Pretty cool hearing those live drums looped & reversed(:.If interesed I have a cd with some examples Ive described . Take care K LAW From ???@??? Fri Jul 31 09:50:41 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA08908; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 11:54:40 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 11:54:40 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 11:50:41 -0400 From: Andreas Willers Subject: Re: Processors: TC Electronics G-Force Sender: Andreas Willers To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Message-ID: <199807311151_MC2-54CA-5B6@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"ppGpH2.0.y42.fWUmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/845 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Paolo, 1. you can't process the two channels independently, although there is a lot of flexibility in the routing. 2. the FireWorx is slightly different in that it has some more features and sounds geared towards remix situations (e.g. a ringmodulator, a digital patchpoint freely assignable within your given layout of effects etc.) while the G-Force is more guitar/bass-oriented (though I wouldn't mind the ring...). I mostly enjoy the sonic quality and the controller thing, where my pedal can be a volume pedal, an EQ on/off, a whammy , wha etc. etc. in each preset individually all with just one thing on the floor. Even more pleasing since I found out last year that the Ernie Ball pedals I've been using for ages (and sort of took for granted, never checked them) in fact DO affect the signal/treble response slightly but noticeably. Then again placing the volume swell behind the preamp isn't the most natural solution when working with different stages of saturation... From ???@??? Fri Jul 31 09:50:43 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA11913; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:21:45 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:21:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35C1E7D9.131FB1D8@intcpi.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 11:50:51 -0400 From: "John Price" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: CD prices and my whole point References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3nkHe2.0.vq2.VwUmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/846 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Not to be mean headed but this last post got me thinking a few things. More overly analytical verbiage from me again. Ever notice how opinions and subjective thought get turned into arguments and firm stances or debatable topics. Crossedout@aol.com wrote: > > > I stand by my arguments ... [snip] > How do opinions become arguments when its just an opinion - no more or no less - only a subjective opinion.And this one really throws me. > Art is in the doing and the enjoyment, either by and for yourself or anyone > else who hears you. Making a living off of it is commerce. Who says exactly what art is ??? And just why is commerce excluded from arts existence or function or impact ??? Making money is an art, ... Living is an art ... , Cooking is an art ... , Hell even Killing is an art ... just about anything you can think of is, can & has been or could be classified as art at some point in time. I know this is a sophmoric sounding question but who really knows what art is or perhaps its pointless to "argue" what is art in any context let alone to even try to put a definition on it. The more you try to define art the more elusive it becomes ... that much seems universally true imho :) Whenever that question arises it seems it has more to do with a personal agenda than what art has to say but ya know thats an art in and of itself I suppose :) > > > - Bill *somehow, I don't think this is the end of it* > Crossedout@aol.com From ???@??? Fri Jul 31 09:50:35 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA06323; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 11:35:25 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 11:35:25 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: dmgraph@mail.bway.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 11:33:53 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: David Myers Subject: Not again! Resent-Message-ID: <"dq5aL.0.xT1.lEUmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/843 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Just testing, folks. If I'm barred from getting through again I'm gonna flip.... From ???@??? Fri Jul 31 09:50:48 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA15069; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:46:18 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:46:18 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: dmgraph@mail.bway.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:43:55 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: David Myers Subject: Re: The Feedback Machine story Resent-Message-ID: <"ItOPB.0.tb3.PGVmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/849 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hi there Dirk- Glad to see you on the loop list, which I always find pretty stimulating (but over 100 messages today--jesus!). Thanks for the note of appreciation. I will shamefacedly admit that I primarily work in the dark and hear but little of the music around me, though of course I know of your stuff, have heard a bit over the years, and am aware you also have worked with our friend Asmus. My current relation to "looping" is a bit strange. I of course am on the list (the only one I follow), and the Arcane Device material was heavily into looping. After a long while I've begun some new work, and although it doesn't seem (to me at least) light-years away from that music, I'm actually not "looping" at all; I don't even really have any outright looping gear at the moment. Maybe I've begun to view the concept differently. I did a release called "Envoi In Cumin" which you just might have heard, where I used a bank of delays--none of which had a delay time of over 1 second, yet the perceiveable "loop" varied between 7 and 15 seconds! I credit this to the tangled routing scheme employed, and perhaps that concept is informing my present approach. Rather than the "Frippertronic" tape loop which is fed a solo voice and is perhaps akin to live multitracking, the "loops" I now employ are perhaps more conceptual, or schematic, if you will. Let's say that six different multiprocessors are fed through several mixers with many effects busses, and all the inputs and outputs are intermingling everywhere. There are loops alright, but rather than a single circle, it's more of a maze. Naturally some, or most, of the devices include time delay, so there is inevitably an audible "loop" effect, but I guess what I want to say is that my concept of the loop is something which might be (literally) drawn better than heard, is behind the sound rather than evident in the outward form. Maybe we could swap a recording or two? I have a discography listed at: http://www.bway.net/~dmgraph A lot is out of print, natch, but I could burn you a CD.... Regards, David Myers >Dear David, > >Perhaps not the best place and moment to do this but I wanted to share my >appreciation with you for your body of work you've done in the past (from >the outstanding 'Penetrating black ice' to my favorite collaborative works >with Asmus). > >We both seem to have an affection as well for the perception of Asmus >Tietchens as well, as I also took up with him the chance to record a new >double album together wherein we expand the possibilities of the >'recycling' method. >Here again, the looping technique remains the most important and >multi-functional aplication. > >Good luck on your future recordings. > > >Dirk (aka Vidna Obmana) From ???@??? Fri Jul 31 11:08:49 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA25616; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:08:59 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:08:59 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <174A69422993D111A13C00805FFE51B4028314@SJC-MSG-01> From: Tom Attix To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: RE: The definition of art. Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 11:05:00 -0700 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Resent-Message-ID: <"aOCcr2.0.n76.EUWmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/852 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I have studied art theory (way too much, actually), and my theory about art theories is that intellectualizing art is like intellectualizing sex: it may give you something to interesting to think about but if you're thinking about it while you're doing it, you missed the boat. Pure experience is what art is all about, thinking about it just gets in the way. > -----Original Message----- > From: mark sottilaro [mailto:msottila@mailbox.syr.edu] > Sent: Friday, July 31, 1998 12:06 PM > To: Tom Attix > Subject: Re: The definition of art. > > > First of all, excuse my spell checker, I did mean accepted. > Second of all, I > did cite murals as an example of fine art. Third of all, you > may want to > study art theory for a while before denounce any art theory. > If you group > what you do with music with the making of really good french > fries, you may > want to quit your job and go work for McDonalds. Has eating > a french fry ever > made you cry? If so, I'd seek help...or go out and buy the > last Spice Girls album. > > I didn't formulate this theory, but I have studied it > extensively and I find > it to be the best theory to separate what I do from what my > housemate the > housepainter does. While both valid and noble endeavors, they are as > supremely different as can be (I've done both). > From ???@??? Fri Jul 31 10:58:48 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA17768; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 13:08:59 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 13:08:59 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35C20BAE.3D8197B6@mailbox.syr.edu> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 13:23:41 -0500 From: mark sottilaro Reply-To: msottila@mailbox.syr.edu Organization: metaliminal X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: The definition of art. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <35C1E7D9.131FB1D8@intcpi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wYvaz3.0.2E4.-bVmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/850 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hey, OK, here's the modern excepted definition of fine art: Art is human expression which has no use other than to define itself. Cooking, is not considered a fine art, as it's main function is to transfer nutrients from food, to humans. Cooking, is a craft. The different from art and craft is in the purpose. Are there aesthetics used in cooking? Of course, but the use of aesthetics principals doesn't necessarily produce fine art. Of course you pick a pleasant color when you paint your house, but the main reason you paint it (or aluminum side it) is to protect the wood from the elements. Painting a house is not art, but craft. Painting a mural on a house is art because there is no reason to do this, other than to express an idea or feeling. Fine art has no other purpose other than to be itself. Oh boy, I bet that I've opened up a can of worms! Mark. From ???@??? Fri Jul 31 23:54:15 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA29510; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:38:13 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:38:13 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35C20F6D.FA768309@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 11:39:47 -0700 From: lance glover Reply-To: baumhaus@earthlink.net Organization: treehouse X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Definition of art (caution, no looping c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"CXEJu1.0.z57.QvWmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/854 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com mark sottilaro wrote: > Hey, > > OK, here's the modern excepted definition of fine art: > > Art is human expression which has no use other than to define itself. > Cooking, is not considered a fine art, as it's main function is to > transfer > nutrients from food, to humans. Cooking, is a craft. The different > from art > and craft is in the purpose. Are there aesthetics used in cooking? > Of > course, but the use of aesthetics principals doesn't necessarily > produce fine > art. Of course you pick a pleasant color when you paint your house, > but the > main reason you paint it (or aluminum side it) is to protect the wood > from the > elements. Painting a house is not art, but craft. Painting a mural > on a > house is art because there is no reason to do this, other than to > express an > idea or feeling. Fine art has no other purpose other than to be > itself. > > Oh boy, I bet that I've opened up a can of worms! > > Mark. Right on that. Your reasoning reminds me of the duller art history classes I took in college many years ago. The more interesting classes dealt with paradigms less Euro- and Western Civ-oriented, which noted many fascinating things about how art has been viewed around the world; in Japan, for example, serving a small meal such as tea has attained the status of what "we in the West" would call "Fine Art", in fact, the Japanese tea ceremony is enriched by a depth of cultural association which is likely beyond the comprehension of most Westerners. Likewise, in Bali, there is not even a word for what we call Art, as the indigenous culture there is so pregnant with creative energy it is impossible to ascertain a difference between "Art" and "Non-Art" (Aussie sufers aside). But to bring the argument closer to home, I live in Santa Monica, California; here there is a Museum of Functional Art, which does not discriminate between "craft" and "art"; there is even an art piece masquarading as a "Museum of Jurassic Technology". If you look around the "art world" today, I think you will find these solid demarkations so obvious to you as merely scratches in the dust being rapidly obliterated by the winds of change. Andy Warhol showed us that art is whatever you make it; if there is an artist and an audience (perhaps even just the artist his/herself), then there is art. Cheerio, Lance G. P. S. Yes, there could be art in aluminum siding. From ???@??? Fri Jul 31 23:54:21 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA00014; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:57:33 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:57:33 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <012f01bdbcb5$5b83aae0$c5b854ce@mark.asisoftware.com> From: Mark@asisoftware.com (Mark Kata) To: "Loopers Delight" Subject: Speaking of CDs . . . Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:59:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"DS1Ky3.0.Tu7.tBXmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/855 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com When will the Loopers-Delight CDs be available? Mark Kata Mark@asisoftware.com From ???@??? Fri Jul 31 11:08:43 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA24702; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:04:11 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:04:11 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35C21887.FA616302@mailbox.syr.edu> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:18:28 -0500 From: mark sottilaro Reply-To: msottila@mailbox.syr.edu Organization: metaliminal X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: The accepted (woops!) definition of art. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <35C1E7D9.131FB1D8@intcpi.com> <35C20BAE.3D8197B6@mailbox.syr.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3kwIZ3.0.0u5.LPWmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/851 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Excuse my spell check. I, of course, meant "accepted" not "excepted theory of art. I also didn't formulate this theory, I've only studied art theory extensively and found this to be the best way to separate what I do from, as Tom Attix cited, someone who makes "really good french fries." Tom wrote: >I presume you mean "accepted", in which case, just call me old fashioned. >That's gotta be the stupidest definition of art I've ever read. What about >murals or great architecture or really good french fries? Art is where you >find it, if you're a great artist you'll find it everywhere. I will counter and say that art is not where you find it. Inspiration is where you find it. Because you find art in a closet, the closet is not art. Mark. From ???@??? Fri Jul 31 23:54:29 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA10126; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 15:41:30 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 15:41:30 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: aden@pop.ne.mediaone.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 15:38:42 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Aden Evens Subject: FS: Vortex Resent-Message-ID: <"cvhHU.0.xB2.8rXmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/856 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Excellent condition Lexicon Vortex, with power supply, manual, and two-button footswitch. Morphing feature makes this unit interesting, but it has become too cheesy for me. Best offer over $200 + shipping from Boston. Please reply by email. aden@who.net ### ## ### Aden ### ## ### From ???@??? Fri Jul 31 23:54:32 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA20396; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:04:56 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:04:56 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f From: Nemoguitt@aol.com Message-ID: <9204bae8.35c22265@aol.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:00:36 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: my two cents Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"dGZPY2.0.Tj4.CBYmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/857 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com i have never studied art, but in my own mind i feel that art is no more than trying to impose order over chaos. there are two forms of art: subjective art, which can fool some of the people some of the time, and objective art, which can move all of the people all of the time. perhaps i spent too much time drinking coffee rather than going to class....michael From ???@??? Fri Jul 31 23:54:43 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA29913; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:27:19 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:27:19 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980731202503.00cc1404@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 13:25:03 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: my two cents Resent-Message-ID: <"uJmmq2.0.y27.GWYmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/859 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com At 04:00 PM 7/31/98 EDT, Nemoguitt@aol.com wrote: >i have never studied art, but in my own mind i feel that art is no more than >trying to impose order over chaos. my idea of art is to impose chaos over order.....if I can work aluminum siding and french fries into it, all the better. kim ________________________________________________________ Kim Flint, MTS 408-752-9284 Chromatic Research kflint@chromatic.com http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Fri Jul 31 23:54:49 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA07065; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:49:04 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:49:04 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35C22ABF.3D42@dmans.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 15:36:15 -0500 From: "Mikell D. Nelson" Reply-To: mnelson@dmans.com Organization: Boomerang Musical Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: my two cents References: <2.2.32.19980731202503.00cc1404@pop.chromatic.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9XmYN2.0.VQ.uhYmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/862 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > >i have never studied art, but in my own mind i feel that art is no more than > >trying to impose order over chaos. > > my idea of art is to impose chaos over order.....if I can work aluminum > siding and french fries into it, all the better. My idea of chaos is trying to impose one definition over art. Pass the catsup. Motley From ???@??? Fri Jul 31 23:54:53 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA10154; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:56:13 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:56:13 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <2C396693FBDED111AEF60000F84104A71A639B@indyexch_fddi.indy.tce.com> From: Hoover Alan To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: my two cents Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 15:52:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"uo8ah1.0.GF2.NxYmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/863 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I once saw a meal presented with such elegance at an art institute that it made all of the artists in the room cry from joy. Then, since they didn't want to eat this beauteous work, suffering from hunger, they ate all the paintings off the wall! -----Original Message----- From: Kim Flint [mailto:kflint@chromatic.com] Sent: Friday, July 31, 1998 3:25 PM To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: my two cents At 04:00 PM 7/31/98 EDT, Nemoguitt@aol.com wrote: >i have never studied art, but in my own mind i feel that art is no more than >trying to impose order over chaos. my idea of art is to impose chaos over order.....if I can work aluminum siding and french fries into it, all the better. kim ________________________________________________________ Kim Flint, MTS 408-752-9284 Chromatic Research kflint@chromatic.com http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Fri Jul 31 23:54:57 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA14735; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 17:06:09 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 17:06:09 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <017b01bdbcc6$c82730c0$4a419ad1@default> From: "Bill Cummings" To: "loop dudes at looper's delight" Subject: Fw: Cheapskate's opinion Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 17:04:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"e7bfi3.0.oJ3.U4Zmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/864 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com >>Talking about prices... >> >>How much can a pro/semi-pro musician earn for a standard live gig, there in >US? >> >>I'd like to know.... >> >>ciao >>leo My 6 piece modern-rock cover band goes out for local weekend clubdates at $750. - $850., and usually has sound system and drinks provided by the club. We've done private parties for $1800. - $2000, also, and I wish we could get more of those ! The clubdate is fun though, and we usually get crowds in the range of 600 people or so. I was at a wedding recently and the 12 piece band was getting $8000. The drummer was the contractor, and paid everyone else as a sideman, probably $400. a piece or so, and thereby put about $4000. in his own pocket. The band was smokin and played everything from Jazz standards and big band stuff right on thru R & B classics, Rock Classics, and newer dance oriented material. I even got to sit in with them for RESPECT, with three female singers and a three piece horn section. There are people out there making money playing music, but to really make a living at it, you have to run it like a business. Myself, I make my living in Real Estate, so that I can play music for myself, and only take gigs that I want to play. Bill Cummings drums@myself.com >-----Original Message----- >From: Leonardo Cavallo >To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >Date: Thursday, July 30, 1998 3:30 PM >Subject: Re: Cheapskate's opinion > > >>Talking about prices... >> >>How much can a pro/semi-pro musician earn for a standard live gig, there in >US? >> >>I'd like to know.... >> >>ciao >>leo >> >> >> > From ???@??? Fri Jul 31 23:55:00 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA16832; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 17:11:03 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 17:11:03 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35C231CC.8D766887@necom.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 17:06:22 -0400 From: "Ed A." X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: RE: websites and cd sales Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------7174C4E428BE312ED00037AA" Resent-Message-ID: <"Aym0K.0.-r3.u8Zmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/865 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com
At 0:27 -0700 7/31/98, Javier Miranda V. wrote:
> What's the right way to hook up credit-card approval in your website?  Is
>that a third-party involved or it's just from your website to the bank?
>
> Thanks for any advice.
>
> | -----Original Message-----
> | From: scott kungha drengsen [mailto:kungha@earthlink.net]
> | Sent: Thursday, July 30, 1998 11:11 PM
> | To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
> | Subject: websites and cd sales
> |
> |
> | I was wondering how many of you out there with sites and CD's to sell
> | were set up to accept credit cards and if this made a difference in
> | sales? There seems to be quite a difference for me between hits and
> | sales and I wondered if this was everyones usual experience?


Unless you're making a lot more money than I am, accepting credit cards
directly is an expensive proposition and not worth it.

I use Kagi  and am totally happy with them.  They
take a few percentage points (as do the credit card companies), send you
orders by email, and you ship them and receive a check in the mail every
now and then.

I agree something like Kagi is a better solution than setting up for credit card transactions yourself. Setting up with a merchant bank and CyberCash can easily cost you what averages out to a few hundred dollars per month. Then there is the expertise you'll need to code Perl CGI(not for your average novice HTML coder) to connect properly with CyberCash and the merchant bank .I use IUMA, since they promote my music anyway. They act as a fullfillment service with credit card and toll-free ordering, stocking and shipping the item also. The Ultimate Band List (http://www.ubl.com/)seems to have this sort of service also, but I don't have any details.
 

Ed Arszyla
http://www.necom.com/music/ From ???@??? Fri Jul 31 23:54:35 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA23406; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:11:51 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:11:51 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:08:49 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: dtapia@unoco.edu (Douglas Tapia) Subject: Re: looping with Protools on the Mac Resent-Message-ID: <"Rpc3k.0.pQ5.hHYmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/858 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Looping with Protools has been like a revelation to me, too. No, it is not a real-time process, but the system has become so good that it is prety intuitive to pull off clean loops fairly quickly in the studio. A few musicians and myself are putting together a broad range of "dancable soundscapes" using bits of very long jams that we then assemble into fairly structured tunes. This is by no means revolutionary, as this has been the driving force behind a number of "dance" projects, most notabably for me Amon Tobin and Bill Laswell's "Material," (not to mention that Teo Macero was doing this with Miles in the late 60s!) however Protools makes doing this sort of thing dead easy. No cutting tape, no bouncing down, no guess work. And if you don't like the results, just undo them and find something that works better. The studio I work in has recently aquired a HUI and I must say, for any Protools owners out there, you MUST get this box (or Digi's forthcoming ProMix). You can get rid of your mouse, you could even get rid of your monitor (though a monitor is still really nice to have). The HUI allows you quick access to all plugins and just about every aspect of Protools that you would want to control. Finding insert and loop points is way too easy thanks to the jog/shuttle dial. We generally start with a drum beat. Several of the musicians I work with play drums, and someone will just jump into the booth and play some patterns for about half an hour. We'll all sit down with this raw material, pick something that is both groovy and a little twisted and loop that. Someone will lay down a bass line which will also be looped, and we just go from there. We'll lay in found sounds, free jazz jams, analog synth weirdness, etc. For one tune, we have even settled on a B3/guitar unison line that is being ram-roded on top of a 4 bar rhodes vamp that was looped in realtime using an Echoplex. Loops with in loops within loops. Protools has definatly changed my life and the way I make music. If you have a fat trustfund, you really must pick a system up. >As an 'old school' looper in the late '70's (two spaced 4-track reel-to- >reels), it's surprised even me how hooked I've gotten on Protools in the last >year or so. So much so, that I recently bit the big bullet and upgraded to >their PT24 system. While we're not talking 'traditional' looping in the sense >of simple realtime looping (I'll never get rid of my EDP), these software >recorder/editors open up a whole new concept of looping, which I'm sure a lot >of you people are exploring. You can grab a phrase (or a piece of a loop) and >simply paste copies of it back-to-back in endless, and completely editable >permutations. With the multitrack capabilities, you can overlay more tracks >or loops. While there isn't the 'instant gratification' of a dedicated >looping box, the flexibility and absolute control over the elements you're >using is addictive. The prices of these software packages (especially for >PC's) is coming down all the time, they're getting to be a great value (since >they're really complete recording studios in a box). My Protools 4.1 software >and hardware combo (the Audiomedia 3 computer card with analog and dig. ins >and outs, and some cool fx software) was 'only' around $850 (I'm going to sell >my 6-month old pkg for about $500). And I guess some of the PC pkgs (I'm a >dedicated Mac guy) are even cheaper. Cool stuff... >Tim Story >(storypod@aol.com) From ???@??? Fri Jul 31 23:55:11 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id SAA15125; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 18:22:36 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 18:22:36 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <01b901bdbcd1$6d810280$4a419ad1@default> From: "Bill Cummings" To: "loop dudes at looper's delight" Subject: new way of using samples in live performance Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 17:38:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01AE_01BDBCAA.0178D440" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"Kr03J3.0.3P3.vBamr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/866 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com

I ve also
>developed a new way of using samples in live performance.Rather than using
>a sequencer ,I am programming varios control schemes using EMU E6400&
>pc1600 great results last gig!Im blessed to live in a city(Louisville)
>with so many creatiive
and responsive people.Glad to see more activity on this list!  K LAW
 
 Could you provide more details on how you're using samples in live performance. I'm wondering about the pc1600, and would like to learn more.
Bill Cummings
drums@myself.com
From ???@??? Fri Jul 31 23:55:20 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id TAA03000; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 19:12:14 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 19:12:14 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980731161335.006b1624@popper.simi-valley.tt.slb.com> X-Sender: cavaleri@popper.simi-valley.tt.slb.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:13:36 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Joe Cavaleri Subject: Re: hello Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"OpiRj3.0.1U.rwamr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/867 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hi joe You might try visionsoft. http://www.visionsoft.com/ Chips are about $10.00 ea 1M x 4bit ZIP IC's (DRAM) faster than 100ns Chips used by Lexicon Motorola MCM54400AZ Hitachi HM514400AZP NEC D424400V Misubishi M5M44400L Micron MT4C4001JZ Fujitsu MB814400 good luck & welcome aboard joe At 09:03 PM 7/30/98 -0400, you wrote: > > > hi, my name is joseph devlin. i have recently acquired a lexicon > jamman, after having read about it on the loopers delight webpage. > > i have a question regarding this device, and i would appreciate > any help i can get. i opened up my jamman and looked inside, to check > the memory. all of the slots are full, so i am assuming that it > is maxed out. > > however, ive been using it for a while now. i have been trying out > the sampling mode, and i can only record for eight seconds. shouldnt > i be able to record a 32 second sample with full memory expansion? > > anyways, ive got to run, but id still like to say thanks in advance. > > joe > > > From ???@??? Fri Jul 31 23:55:25 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id UAA28079; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 20:12:57 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 20:12:57 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD051AC9E@migarexch01.maritz.com> From: "Liebig, Steuart A." To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Cheapskate's opinion Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 19:09:40 -0500 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Resent-Message-ID: <"oc_cH.0.gd6.-pbmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/868 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Well . . . this is sure to raise some ire . . . I tend to view gigs like this as a "day job" - - they have nothing to do with "art" (er, french-fried aluminum siding). The music played at these gigs (while sometimes fun) is there to be "wallpaper" or the "soundtrack" for the function. No offense meant, sometimes I wish I had a day job like this (again). Tho' somehow I know people who do, and it tends to (IMHO) ruin their creative playing). stig > I was at a wedding recently and the 12 piece band was getting $8000. .... > > From ???@??? Fri Jul 31 23:55:30 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id UAA04376; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 20:35:24 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 20:35:24 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980801003300.009656a4@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 17:33:00 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: RE: Cheapskate's opinion Resent-Message-ID: <"ukNFt1.0.Vq.j8cmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/869 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com I think that post had nothing to do with our pointless art debate, but was rather an answer to someone's question about what was typical pay for gigs in the US.... At 07:09 PM 7/31/98 -0500, Liebig, Steuart A. wrote: >Well . . . this is sure to raise some ire . . . I tend to view gigs like >this as a "day job" - - they have nothing to do with "art" (er, french-fried >aluminum siding). The music played at these gigs (while sometimes fun) is >there to be "wallpaper" or the "soundtrack" for the function. > >No offense meant, sometimes I wish I had a day job like this (again). Tho' >somehow I know people who do, and it tends to (IMHO) ruin their creative >playing). > >stig > > >> I was at a wedding recently and the 12 piece band was getting $8000. .... >> ________________________________________________________ Kim Flint, MTS 408-752-9284 Chromatic Research kflint@chromatic.com http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Fri Jul 31 23:55:43 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id XAA10491; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 23:32:52 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 23:32:52 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: dmgraph@mail.bway.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 23:30:47 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: David Myers Subject: Re: The Feedback Machine story Resent-Message-ID: <"P_cLS1.0.sH2.okemr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/870 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Hi there Dirk- Glad to see you on the loop list, which I always find pretty stimulating (but over 100 messages today--jesus!). Thanks for the note of appreciation. I will shamefacedly admit that I primarily work in the dark and hear but little of the music around me, though of course I know of your stuff, have heard a bit over the years, and am aware you also have worked with our friend Asmus. My current relation to "looping" is a bit strange. I of course am on the list (the only one I follow), and the Arcane Device material was heavily into looping. After a long while I've begun some new work, and although it doesn't seem (to me at least) light-years away from that music, I'm actually not "looping" at all; I don't even really have any outright looping gear at the moment. Maybe I've begun to view the concept differently. I did a release called "Envoi In Cumin" which you just might have heard, where I used a bank of delays--none of which had a delay time of over 1 second, yet the perceiveable "loop" varied between 7 and 15 seconds! I credit this to the tangled routing scheme employed, and perhaps that concept is informing my present approach. Rather than the "Frippertronic" tape loop which is fed a solo voice and is perhaps akin to live multitracking, the "loops" I now employ are perhaps more conceptual, or schematic, if you will. Let's say that six different multiprocessors are fed through several mixers with many effects busses, and all the inputs and outputs are intermingling everywhere. There are loops alright, but rather than a single circle, it's more of a maze. Naturally some, or most, of the devices include time delay, so there is inevitably an audible "loop" effect, but I guess what I want to say is that my concept of the loop is something which might be (literally) drawn better than heard, is behind the sound rather than evident in the outward form. Maybe we could swap a recording or two? I have a discography listed at: http://www.bway.net/~dmgraph A lot is out of print, natch, but I could burn you a CD.... Regards, David Myers >Dear David, > >Perhaps not the best place and moment to do this but I wanted to share my >appreciation with you for your body of work you've done in the past (from >the outstanding 'Penetrating black ice' to my favorite collaborative works >with Asmus). > >We both seem to have an affection as well for the perception of Asmus >Tietchens as well, as I also took up with him the chance to record a new >double album together wherein we expand the possibilities of the >'recycling' method. >Here again, the looping technique remains the most important and >multi-functional aplication. > >Good luck on your future recordings. > > >Dirk (aka Vidna Obmana) From ???@??? Fri Jul 31 23:55:51 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id CAA28061; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 02:02:46 -0400 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 02:02:46 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f Message-ID: <35C2B0E3.E3F81C1@mailbox.syr.edu> Date: Sat, 01 Aug 1998 01:08:35 -0500 From: mark sottilaro Reply-To: msottila@mailbox.syr.edu Organization: metaliminal X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: baumhaus@earthlink.net, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Japanese art tea. Last comments. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <35C20F6D.FA768309@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"TbapR.0.Yk6.hygmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/871 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Lance Glover wrote: >Right on that. Your reasoning reminds me of the duller art history >classes I took in college many years ago. Not my reasoning, my friend, the reasoning of pretty much the entire art world. Perhaps you should have tried to pay more attention in your duller classes, you might have learned something. I have studied both Western and non Western theories of art, and for the last 100 years, or so, this theory is pretty much accepted world wide. >in fact, the Japanese tea ceremony is enriched by a depth of cultural association >which is likely beyond the comprehension of most Westerners. Thanks for unknowingly furthering the argument. Any Japanese person will admit that the Japanese tea ceremony is NOT about the consumption of tea and that is precisely why is it fine art. This is a very fine and subtle point, but a very important one. I could make a video that depicts the making and serving of french fries (I just did one of a friend cleaning fish he had caught), couple it with the serving of french fries, and call it a performance art piece and no one would counter that. If I present the same info in a "how to make and serve good french fries" instructional video, it ceases to be art and becomes craft. Am I making sense? I recently made a video about raising a Tamagotchi (cyber pet) and I would definitely call it a fine art piece. However, you could use the same footage and present it in a totally different way and it could become a commercial for the toy. The difference is that my video doesn't try to accomplish anything except to show my feelings toward this pop cultural phenomena. The commercial is trying to describe and sell the product. The Japanese tea ceremony is about the beautiful movement of humans, the tea could be anything, it could be CokeĻ and not change the piece at all. Get it? X-Originating-IP: [164.67.21.87] From: "Joseph Buck" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Eavesdropping on Mars Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 23:18:41 PDT Resent-Message-ID: <"hcG1M3.0.zT.vDhmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/872 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Michael- Thanks for passing this information on... Makes me proud to be a resident of Boomtown. Pasadena definately has an interesting stellar corporate culture and I hadn't heard about this part of next lander. Will talk to a couple people at JPL and find out more details and pass them on... selam, Buck >The next NASA lander will carry a very small listening device to capture what >sounds might exist on Mars. This is the first microphone sent to another >planet. The device was built at the University of California's Space Sciences >Laboratory for about $50,000 (USD). It is the creation of the Planetary >Society, a nonprofit space advocacy group once led by Carl Sagan. Engineers >anticipate that the microphone, which fits into the palm of the hand, will hear >and document the wind and sounds of the lander. It may also pick up the sound of >electrical discharges occurring within a Martian sandstorm. According to Greg >Delory, chief engineer, "The most exciting sound we're going to hear is the one >we don't know about." Popular Science, August, 1998, page 28. > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Wed Jul 29 10:30:18 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA22694; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:08:47 -0400 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:08:47 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: cho@207.155.21.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199807291321.AA048958470@eagle.uis.edu> References: <199807290712.DAA14334@rosy.yourwebhost.com> from "Loopers-Delight-d-request@annihilist.com" at Jul 29, 98 03:12:53 am Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 29 Jul 1956 10:04:30 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: footpedal question Resent-Message-ID: <"M5CkN2.0.pG5.xKrlr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/728 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Anyone know of a company that offers a good selection of metal chassis boxes of various shapes and sizes (eg. for footpedals), at reasonable prices ? Thanks, in advance! - chris From ???@??? Thu Jul 30 11:33:01 1998 X-POP3-Rcpt: kflint@rosy.yourwebhost.com Received: (from kflint@localhost) by rosy.yourwebhost.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id OAA06683; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 14:31:26 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 14:31:26 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: rosy.yourwebhost.com: kflint set sender to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com using -f X-Sender: cho@207.155.21.2 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <99294635.35bfb138@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 30 Jul 1956 11:31:29 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: another EDP footpedal question Resent-Message-ID: <"3HKV03.0.cX1.biBmr"@rosy.yourwebhost.com> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/802 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Thanks for all the quick replies! I have several free catalogs on the way. Here's another (more challenging) question: I am trying to figure out how to switch one footpedal between multiple Echoplex DP's? Sure, for 2 EDP's, an A/B box works great......for 3 'plexes, 2 A/B boxes can work. But then, it starts to get confusing, because I can forget which one I'm on (I usually have to mute the loop to figure this out). Also, sometimes I have to hit more than one button to switch EDP's (& this would get worse, using more EDP's & A/B boxes). What I envision, is to use several switches (one for each EDP), and by hitting a (only one) switch, it switches the connection from my footpedal to that EDP. (Of course, it would also have to switch OFF the connection to the previous EDP, as well). Here are other features that would be great to have: 1. a circuit design, so I can build it myself (as opposed to spending $$ for an existing switcher) 2. expandable design, so I can control as many plexes as I want (or, rather, as I can afford) 3. LED's to show which switch is connected (this would be icing!) So, any ideas out there? Any electrical engineers who could whip up a quick design? Remember, also, that the EDP footpedal needs to have both conductors switched, (you can't just switch the hot lead and use a common ground). cheers, chris