From ???@??? Wed Apr 01 10:22:21 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 02:08:35 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKKRd-0002Ey-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 02:08:33 -0800 X-Sender: doug@mail.lightlink.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199804010606.WAA04518@onyx.sunset.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 02:08:30 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Doug Wyatt Subject: Re: the quest Resent-Message-ID: <"F7kM7C.A.ZxB.mFhI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4793 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 02:08:33 -0800 X-UIDL: 5809312dfe13a7ded97983470ea6d4a6 Matt wrote: > Well Laurie, after writing the above I've scraped the piece I was working > on. I felt I was trying too hard...the music wasn't happening. The problem > seems to be trying to force some sort of form over something that is totally > improvished. It just wasn't working for me. > > I'm beginning to feel like a looping poser. > > >>Honestly, I don't know what I'm looking > >>for...but I'm fairly certain that I will know when I find it. Hopefully. > > > >You know, I feel like I just spent the last four years feeling that way. > So it > >really struck me when you said this. The fact that you're *looking* is > what > >really counts. > > I hope you are right! I just want to jump in with a word of encouragement. Keep at it and something good will happen. I've done a lot of composing based on improvs and it's an elusive thing. Sometimes the original improv has to be used verbatim, or not used at all -- it's just that quirky. At times I have spent days transcribing and learning to play something I improvised, in order to try to record a better performance of the idea -- not always successfully. Sometimes I get something finished and decide that I've created a fine realization of a mediocre idea. That's okay; I spent the time playing music instead of watching TV at least. Some improvised loops are cool, but I have no idea of what I'd do with them. I might fly one into the sampler, to play with it at other speeds/pitches, and to file it away in my own mind and on disk. Sometimes later I'll be composing/arranging, wanting the inspiration of a new sound, go browsing through the sampled loop library, and find something that works. But more than all that, I think Laurie is right ... the most important thing is to keep trying. Please let us know how it goes! Doug --- Doug Wyatt doug@sonosphere.com Sonosphere (music and music software) http://www.sonosphere.com/ my new CD, "Accidental Beauties": http://www.sonosphere.com/wyatt/ From ???@??? Wed Apr 01 01:27:51 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 00:02:36 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKITh-0003SJ-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 00:02:33 -0800 Message-Id: <199804010757.CAA29278@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: Central jersey Loop gig... Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 02:56:26 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"NIq0cC.A.7sC.JOfI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4790 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 00:02:33 -0800 X-UIDL: deae7b85b9efbb1abdd44343e0fa25cc shamless ad here folks... bear with me. hope you don't get a bunch HTML glitch: this promises to be a night of weirdness..... SUNDAY APRIL 5 Doors 7:30 Show 8:15pm Music From The Outer Edge With Slumbersigh 8:15pm Bon Lozaga (of GONG) Solo Guitar Loops- Sonic Abandon 9:00pm JFK's LSD UFO9:45pm andre cholmondeley -guitar/synth,vocals,samples. Loops cheri jiosne - percuss.,drums,synth, Loops Mooter Wholesale & Manufacturing (MN) 10:30pm The Saint * 601 Main St * Asbury Park NJ The saint's a cool little bar, tho' it's 18+ friendly... 732-775-9144 --- 18 TO ENTER !!! 21 TO DRINK Info/band links at http://www.jswd.net/projectobject need more info/directions, etc contact andre@monmouth.com or 732-747-6448 thanks !!! = andre' c From ???@??? Wed Apr 01 10:23:02 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 07:38:09 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKPaa-0002qw-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 07:38:08 -0800 Message-ID: <3522024B.45E8991B@nyfac.com> Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 10:00:59 +0100 From: tdbajus Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: It's no crisis- it's just you having fun... References: <01bd5d67$b13e32a0$df024382@pentium-200> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"25r4K.A.RJC.t5lI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4800 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 07:38:08 -0800 X-UIDL: 918eaaaf5ceb828a009747ea91dd73d2 1) get a little ambient if your normally stack guitar parts. If are normally ambients, try stacking discrete lines/parts. 2) put a melodic line that cycles in three over a loop in four. 3) play an mbira style melody in triplets over a loop in four. 4) randomly subtitute numbers in suggestions 2&3. 5) try new harmonies (this alone is worth the cost of my admision)- chords on top of chords, desending lines over asending lines. Fool around over pedal tones. 6) make percussive tracks by clicking your pickups with your strings, electric screwdrivers, vibrators, etc. 7) lay down texture beds with electric screwdrivers, vibrators, electric and manual lint removers. 8) try looping with a bass if you are guitarist. If you play keyboards, see a therapist! ;-) 9) sell it. and my favorite: 10) go to the store. Buy two sixpacks of Guiness and a half gallon of Wild Turkey 101 (is it just me, or does regular Kickin' Chicken taste like paint thinner?). If it is hot enought, you are alowed to substitute Tanqueray and tonics. If you have glaucoma, smoke some of your medication. Call your friend Bob, the Neil Young fan. Invite him over. Tell him to bring his guitar. Set you rig up outside if it is not raining. At least open a window. Hook the output of your JamMan into a tremelo pedal. Responsibly sample some of the aforementioned beverage. Perhaps your eyes are still hurting? Loop the verse of either 'Down By the River' or 'Cowgirl in the Sand'. Turn the tremelo pedal on, and indulge yourself. From ???@??? Wed Apr 01 10:22:27 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 02:44:34 1998 Received: from falcon (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.27] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKL0Q-0004Vr-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 02:44:30 -0800 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKL0N-0000aj-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 02:44:28 -0800 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKL0J-0004Uv-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 02:44:23 -0800 Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 05:37:40 -0500 From: R & T Cummings Subject: Re: Oberheim Drummer (was: Loopinh Ensembler) Sender: R & T Cummings To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Message-ID: <199804010538_MC2-3892-9D19@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"NtfslB.A.1hD.UlhI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4794 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 02:44:23 -0800 X-UIDL: c2237668c35fcb35c93bee3f39c5c071 Oops, sorry about the double-post - After I thought I lost the first one, I cursed my mail program and reentered it. Looking at them now it sort of strikes as funny how the same message ended up a little different the second time. Sort of like playing songs live and comparing an older version with a new one ... anyway, schtoopid ole me says SORRY. Rob From ???@??? Wed Apr 01 10:22:28 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 02:44:35 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKL0R-0004WA-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 02:44:31 -0800 Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 05:37:44 -0500 From: R & T Cummings Subject: Re: CAN (Was: DAW options overload) Sender: R & T Cummings To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Message-ID: <199804010538_MC2-3892-9D1A@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"N0FX1C.A.ZjD.clhI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4795 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 02:44:31 -0800 X-UIDL: abe93c219ff359e97916949b77ae67f5 John Nielson wrote >Actually, I think most of CAN's classic albums were recorded live to >2-track, and post-production consisted of editing their improvisations >with a razor where necessary.< Yes, you're right about all of this - in fact CAN were using tape loops of rhythm grooves back in 1971 with TAGO MAGO (esp. on "Halleluwa"). What I in fact meant earlier about CAN's demise was that when they stopped using the tape-loop & multi-bounced two-track method with LANDED album in 1975 - and switched to using a 16-track - that this killed the spirit of the band. They admit this themselves. But they nonetheless released a plethora of great albums before this: TAGO MAGO, EGE BAMYASI, FUTURE DAYS, UNLIMITED EDITION, SOON OVER BABALUMA and bootlegs etc. As you can tell by my interest, CAN is one of my favorite all-time bands! P.S. I do not wish to refute the usefulness of DAW's! Basically all of the recordings our band ROPE does end up being edited using CoolEDIT and EMagic stuff. That's more my bandmate's specialty than mine, though. From ???@??? Wed Apr 01 10:22:57 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 07:08:59 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKP8L-0007FO-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 07:08:57 -0800 Message-ID: <01BD5D6D.45A0B3A0.andrew@bocs.com> From: andrew Reply-To: "andrew@no_spambocs.co.com" To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: JamMan Delay Mode Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 12:54:10 +0100 Organization: bocs X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tfdMUB.A.KRG.WelI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4799 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 07:08:57 -0800 X-UIDL: 4d26277376761167fbee3c4dc449c3d5 There's a pedal made by BOSS called the LS-1 which has several features for mixing different inputs as well as a couple of FX inserts. In all quite a few choices ( but only one at a time ) I was using it as an A/B pedal but recently started experimenting with the inserts - I connected the guitar to input and an amp to the output. Using the pedal I could switch in a cheap microphone stuck in front of the amp and induce mayhem ( with the help of a few extreme pedals to boost the guitar signals ) You could also carry out further experiments like plugging the output of a radio into it, and spinning the dial - short wave 'deedley deep deep' noises are great. Using the mic again you could sing, play flute, tape the dog barking ( play harmonica and tape the dog howling even ) and when you've exhausted all possibilites switch back to normal service and play all your Tomy Iommi solos over it ( or play a real Tony Iommi solo into the mic via a tape recorder ! ) As the LS-1 has two inserts you can connect another device for temporary usage ( I stuck a BOSS DD3 in, set to HOLD mode - play some stuff,press the pedal then manipulte the delay time knob to send odd noises to the amp. Now, if like me you have an A/B pedal with one connection to your main amp and another to your mixer feeding a looping device and some processors you can send your all your diddlings into your loop. But back to the point, Glenn, I'll connect up the jamman and the LS-1 to see if there's a way around the problem of cutting input to the JM. Way back, I used to just turn down the JM's input knob, play, then turn it up when I want to add more in. Now I use the A/B pedal, so have the two amp solution I guess. Yours in experimentation Andrew Andrew@bocs.com -----Original Message----- From: VanEyck [SMTP:vaneyck@interlog.com] Sent: 31 March 1998 15:53 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: JamMan Delay Mode One way to do this with one pedal is if you have a two input amp (any Fender, most Marshalls and Hiwatts, Roland JC etc...). Morley and Ernie Ball make a stereo panning pedal. Pan in one direction, the clean guitar signal goes into input 1, pan the other way the guitar signal goes into the Jamman in loop mode and then into input 2. Some amps second input is made for a low impedence signal which is perfect for the Jamman anyways. If you can only use one input you could still sum the two signals back together at the amp with a Y cable if necessary. This way you can also slowly mix a non looped passage into the delay stream and vice-versa. Best, TREVOR. VanEyck@interlog.com On Mon, 30 Mar 1998, Glenn Greenway wrote: > Hello Eveyone: > > Recently, some great suggestions were posted about the JamMan's delay > mode and how it is well suited for looping. I tried all the suggestions > and am very impressed. It seems to me that the most significant > difference between delay mode and loop mode is that in the former loop > points can be _repositioned on the fly_ while in the latter once set, > the JamMan needs to be _'reset'_. Also in delay mode there are 16 > Feedback levels as opposed to the three MIDI fades offered in loop mode. > Those two differences are WAY substantial! I can't believe how much > more organicly my loops evolve in delay mode than in loop mode. > > However, there is an equally prominent downside to using delay > mode...the often stated bypass problem. Everything one plays get added > to the pot resulting in an unwieldy and blurry mix. > > It has been suggested that a volume pedal, inserted into the effects > loop might help but with my simple rig (guitar, amp, jamman, digitech > Control Seven MIDI pedalboard) all that happens is that the guitar > signal gets turned down before the JamMan and then _you can't hear it_. > An A/B box is also suggested as an alternative but that sounds rather > too _binary_ for my taste. > > What is needed is a way to bypass the JamMan in one's effect loop. If > the signal could be variably split by a volume or MIDI control pedal > (before the JamMan, effectivley bypassing it)and then remixed after, I > suspect the JamMan might become _much_ more valuable as an interactive > musical device. But how? The remixing seems to no problem but what > kind of 'Splitter Pedals' are available? > > I know that a mixer would solve the bypass problem, but a pedal would be > better. Are there other alternatives that I haven't considered? > > Thanks again to everyone on the list, what a significantly groovy bunch. > > Viva la Peepers! > > From ???@??? Wed Apr 01 10:22:42 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 04:19:01 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKMTr-0002xF-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 04:18:59 -0800 From: "Woehni" To: , Subject: Crisis!!!!!! Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 14:14:17 +0200 Message-ID: <01bd5d67$b13e32a0$df024382@pentium-200> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"4Jeys.A.GjC.gAjI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4796 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 04:18:59 -0800 X-UIDL: c0d4b8e9fdf2d69bf57d2e26e3b70290 Hi friends , I`ve got a major crisis on my hands. I`m gonna come right out and say it: I`ve begun to get doubts about looping.................and I need some reassuring. The thing is , when I loop it doesn`t seem to go anywhere. I always get stuck in the same tracks and the music sounds like.........looping. Sometimes my Jamman can feel like a limitation , rather than a new colour on my (somewhat limited) canvas. At this point I feel like taking a break from the whole looping world and just plug straight in. There is nothing wrong with this , of course , a clean sound is often the bast way to go. This is proven over and over again by players who doesnt care about effects. So this doesnt worry me; I dont see it as a problem to want to plug straight in the amp. BUT: It worries me that what started out like a dream with endless posibilities ended SO QUICKLY. I had a ball with it , played in different musical situations and HAD FUN. And now it suddenly feels so alien. Like a third arm or something. Have any of you gone through something similar?? If so , how did u get through it?? I must add that I`m not the type of person that jump on everything and get bored with it after a short while. I`m usually quite patient and persistent. I`ve had a very busy schedule for the last couple of months and worked very hard. Now I`m starting to feel tired and I`m looking forward to the Easter Holiday. Maybe this is the answer? Maybe It`s just fatigue and my looping energy will return after the holiday??? I hope so. Yours , Thomas w Oslo , norway From ???@??? Wed Apr 01 11:40:21 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 11:09:11 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKSsj-0005aR-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:09:05 -0800 Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 08:14:55 -0500 From: R & T Cummings Subject: Re: Loopinh Ensembler Sender: R & T Cummings To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Message-ID: <199804010815_MC2-389C-E73@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"UE0EKC.A.4TE.q8oI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4804 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:09:05 -0800 X-UIDL: 85f5e4e76efb275bba34830602f2255e Kim wrote: >- the echoplex has a pulse sync input (BeatSync), which you could connect >to a drum trigger. So the drummer could be providing a "sync" for your >loops. (or his own loops) Each time he hits it, the plex retriggers the >loop. If he doesn't hit it, the echoplex keeps going or stops, depending >how you have it set up. You can also use this for recording loops according >to the drummer's tempo in the first place, if you aren't very good at >tapping the start/stop in time. Of course, the drummer might have to >understand how this works, which could be difficult. ;-)< OK, Kim just answered about all of my questions from my last posts. I now know how to solve all my problems - buy an ECHOPLEX! As soon as I can convince the S.O. that this is REALLY important, a necessity ... Let's attribute my problems to Kim's subtle but effective salesmanship ;-). Hey Kim, here'z to the phat beatz! Killah dope! ;-) Concerning drummerz (being that I am one): some more jokez 4 ya: Q: What'z the lazt thing that goez through a drummerz mind when he hits the brakez at a red light? A: Hiz zymbalz! Little Max zayz to Mum: When I grow up I wanna be a drummer! Mum'z retort: Well Max, you can't be both! Q: What are a drummerz last wordz? A: Hey guyz, let'z play one of my tunez ... Rob (dizmizzing the letter 'S') From ???@??? Wed Apr 01 10:22:55 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 06:38:14 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKOea-00046W-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 06:38:12 -0800 Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 08:30:42 -0500 From: buzzard@world.std.com (Sean T Barrett) Message-Id: <199804011330.AA10145@world.std.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: MIDI problems ??? Resent-Message-ID: <"dJ1n7D.A.7kD.5ClI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4798 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 06:38:12 -0800 X-UIDL: 361a08ce1fc17077728288f643a884da >Now realize: modern synthesizers are quite capable of providing >huge and subtle varieties over the timbre of a sound. You mean opening and closing a low-pass filter? Multi-samples are still the most-widely used audio rendering technology around, and that seems to be the only significant timbral change supported. And I've complained before about the fact that neither the GR-30 nor the super-filter-centric Morpheus synth actually bothers having their filters track dynamic pitch changes (their filters follow triggered pitches, not pitch bent pitches, which is a poor match for how guitar controllers transmit things like hammer-ons-- and the GR-30 is a guitar synth!). I'd much prefer to see them get what they've got now working better than worry about transmitting new stuff. As you say, simply speeding up MIDI will be a useful first step. If someone can multiplex MIDI channels somehow so every note gets its own channel, I think that (the two together) would solve the vast majority of the problems. Sean From ???@??? Thu Apr 02 01:10:50 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 12:33:34 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKUCN-0000zW-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 12:33:27 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.2.16.19980401074450.3627bed8@texas.net> X-Sender: sharkey@texas.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (16) Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 07:44:50 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: james rhodes Subject: Re: Crisis! Jamman for sale???? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"oXMrhD.A.rMG.8EqI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4812 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 12:33:27 -0800 X-UIDL: 93bf68a7e52c512bf58cca6d949a6c90 1) take a break 2) play with some other musicians 3) go buy some new music,,might inspire ya 4) dont over-analyze your situation if none of the above works 5) sell me your jamman dont worry it will pass,,,relax,,,and think about why you bought it in the first place its a phase man.... At 11:05 AM 4/1/98 -0800, you wrote: >> Hi friends , I`ve got a major crisis on my hands. I`m gonna come right out >>and say it: >> >>I`ve begun to get doubts about looping.................and I need some >>reassuring. >> >>The thing is , when I loop it doesn`t seem to go anywhere. I always get >>stuck in >>the same tracks and the music sounds like.........looping. Sometimes my Jamman >>can feel like a limitation , rather than a new colour on my (somewhat >>limited) canvas. >> >I played a gig with Minus last night, and afterwards, I noticed that I'd >only used the JamMan very briefly. It was not really a concsious decision >not to loop or anything, it's just the way that the variables added up for >this night, and it seemed that we were a bit lighter on our feet than >usual, and it was nice to have the space that the loops usually fill. We're >not a looping band, per se, though both the guitarist and I have jamsters >(and the drummer's pretty loopy as well), looping is just one of our bag of >tricks. > >>BUT: It worries me that what started out like a dream with endless >>posibilities ended >>SO QUICKLY. I had a ball with it , played in different musical >>situations and HAD FUN. >>And now it suddenly feels so alien. Like a third arm or something. >> >>Have any of you gone through something similar?? If so , how did u get >>through it?? >> >When I go back over tapes of gigs just after I got the JamMan, I now cringe >at how much I used it. Over time, I figured out where it was appropriate, >where it was just a gimmick, and where it could really do something >magical. I think that what you're going through is just your automatic >censor kicking in. You've probably learned a lot about the techniques of >looping by using it all the time, now subconsciously you are wanting to >figure out the esthetics of looping. If what feels right is to play without >effects, then do that, but whatever you do, don't get rid of the JamMan, at >some point you'll probably come back to it with a better idea of how it >fits your personal approach to music. > >________________________________________________________ >Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ > >"...there will come a day when you won't have to use >gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in >your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper >type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em >together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em >together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." > -Sun Ra >________________________________________________________ > > > > > From ???@??? Wed Apr 01 10:23:12 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 09:43:25 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKRXg-00025w-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 09:43:16 -0800 Message-ID: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD02CA077@migarexch01.maritz.com> From: "Liebig, Steuart A." To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Crisis!!!!!! Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:35:47 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Resent-Message-ID: <"q7P5fB.A.5DB.lsnI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4801 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 09:43:16 -0800 X-UIDL: 13c443fdb6299f062ad6d07c443d6d5b Tom W., If all you eat is bread, it gets boring/unsatisfying after awhile. Try herring (sorry, poor joke). Looping is just a tool (sorry), it's not the end -all-maybe it's learning to incorporate it into your overall musical vocabulary. SUGGESTIONS/COMMENTARY Solo Practice at Home: Try playing pieces/doing improvisations that have nothing to do with looping. Or just sit down for a 45-minute period of time and do whatever comes to mind . . . maybe you'll find that the next step in the flow IS looping. Growth Process: Haven't you ever felt the "RUT" show up before? It means you're ready to go to your next phase-whatever that may be. It's all part of the growth process. How do you deal with this normally? Usually, when I get in this sort of situation, I try to analyze what it is that's bugging me about what I'm doing-or try to figure out what's lacking/where I want to go or be. (Once, when I hated my soloing, I realized that I wanted to sound like Lester Bowie playing bass, so I tried imagining what that meant-and I tried to figure out how to achieve that.) Sometimes, I decide to pull back from writing and concentrate on writing. Lately, I've felt like I wanted to pull a Sonny Rollins or Gary Peacock-just hole up and practice and forget about gigs, etc. for a good long time. If all you're doing is practicing, get out and play. A friend of mine had that deck of cards that Brian Eno made (Oblique Strategies?), that seemed to have a lot of interesting possibilites . . . Fatigue: If you're schedule's been super-busy, maybe you're just tired. stig > ---------- > From: Woehni > Reply To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 1998 4:19 AM > To: LiebigSA@maritz.com > Subject: Crisis!!!!!! > > > > Hi friends , I`ve got a major crisis on my hands. I`m gonna come > right out > and say it: > > I`ve begun to get doubts about looping.................and I need some > reassuring. > > The thing is , when I loop it doesn`t seem to go anywhere. I always > get stuck in > the same tracks and the music sounds like.........looping. Sometimes > my Jamman > can feel like a limitation , rather than a new colour on my (somewhat > limited) canvas. > > At this point I feel like taking a break from the whole looping world > and just plug straight > in. There is nothing wrong with this , of course , a clean sound is > often the bast way to > go. This is proven over and over again by players who doesnt care > about effects. So this > doesnt worry me; I dont see it as a problem to want to plug straight > in the amp. > > BUT: It worries me that what started out like a dream with endless > posibilities ended > SO QUICKLY. I had a ball with it , played in different musical > situations and HAD FUN. > And now it suddenly feels so alien. Like a third arm or something. > > Have any of you gone through something similar?? If so , how did u > get through it?? > > I must add that I`m not the type of person that jump on everything and > get bored with it after > a short while. I`m usually quite patient and persistent. > > I`ve had a very busy schedule for the last couple of months and worked > very hard. Now I`m starting to feel tired and I`m looking forward to > the Easter Holiday. Maybe this is the answer? > Maybe It`s just fatigue and my looping energy will return after the > holiday??? > > I hope so. > > Yours , Thomas w > > Oslo , norway > > From ???@??? Thu Apr 02 01:10:48 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 12:17:03 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKTwS-0006Hc-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 12:17:00 -0800 Message-ID: <35227D8C.70EEC245@vtx.ch> Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 19:46:52 +0200 From: "c.voit" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Crisis!!!!!! References: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD02CA077@migarexch01.maritz.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"smo_e.A.WjE.W4pI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4811 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 12:17:00 -0800 X-UIDL: 68ce5ecf1d4756a809f4a6111eaaa359 Oblique strategies on the net http://www.dream.com/Oblique.html tried it just 2 min ago, the cards wheren't talking to me beuh Claude From ???@??? Wed Apr 01 11:53:07 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 11:52:58 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.21] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKTZ6-0002sM-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:52:52 -0800 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKTZ3-00076A-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:52:49 -0800 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKTYs-0002q9-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:52:38 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:02:05 -0800 Message-ID: <000B2262.----@wj.com> From: Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle) Subject: Re: Crisis!!!!!! To: , "Woehni" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"xR-6gB.A.TGB.IipI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4809 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:52:38 -0800 X-UIDL: a328a0c219963059a27ad96ce1f4b514 Woehni laments... TW: Hi friends , I`ve got a major crisis on my hands. I`m gonna come right out and say it: I`ve begun to get doubts about looping.................and I need some reassuring. MB: Hey Thomas... don't sell that looper yet! Your coming out of the honeymoon period! You'll get a second wind in a while. Be patient. Absolutely do not sell your looper. The thing is , when I loop it doesn`t seem to go anywhere. I always get stuck in the same tracks and the music sounds like.........looping. Sometimes my Jamman can feel like a limitation , rather than a new colour on my (somewhat limited) canvas. MB: Use the delay mode and make sure you lower the regen enough to force some change into your process. Use more ambiguous and ambient material to create the loop. Fade it and overdub... fade again and repeat. And last but not least. It's only there to help you when you need it. Just freakin' bypass the sucker and blast! TW: At this point I feel like taking a break from the whole looping world and just plug straight in. There is nothing wrong with this , of course , a clean sound is often the bast way to go. This is proven over and over again by players who doesnt care about effects. So this doesnt worry me; I dont see it as a problem to want to plug straight in the amp. MB: First of all... Don't call yourself a looper! It really frees you up to behave in other obsessive compulsive ways. 8-> (Blasphemy, I know, but...) You may want to still keep that looper in line and just not notice it quite as much. Don't let it run the show. You can always reach over and turn the input or ouput down. Run that sucker in parallel. It's much more versatile and controllable. A looper can also be a very serviceable short delay with good real time tap tempo. Use it as such for awhile. I used to use my JamMan for 1/8 triplet delays in live bands all the time. The possibility is there to then re-tap and massively stretch your time waaayyyy out for radical solo potential or actual looped segments. Re-tap to shorter times to return to more "normal" activity. TW: BUT: It worries me that what started out like a dream with endless posibilities ended SO QUICKLY. I had a ball with it , played in different musical situations and HAD FUN. And now it suddenly feels so alien. Like a third arm or something. Have any of you gone through something similar?? If so , how did u get through it?? MB: Oh yeah... It comes around periodically. Just pick up an acoustic instrument or use a different DSP or take a hike. The concepts are all still valid. TW: I must add that I`m not the type of person that jump on everything and get bored with it after a short while. I`m usually quite patient and persistent. I`ve had a very busy schedule for the last couple of months and worked very hard. Now I`m starting to feel tired and I`m looking forward to the Easter Holiday. Maybe this is the answer? Maybe It`s just fatigue and my looping energy will return after the holiday??? I hope so. Yours , Thomas w MB: I've been in acoustic unplugged mode for most of the 3 years of my boy's life, cause it's so easy (and gratifying). I'm a lifestyle electric player though, so it always comes around again. At this point I have to set up my fairly large pile o' gear each time I play cause I still don't have a real room for it. I do this once a week right now, and that's not nearly enough. It would be easy to learn to hate my gear for this. But it sounds so good (mostly) and I know I'll get more time later etc... It's all perspective and you'll get yours back. All the best Thom... -Miko From ???@??? Wed Apr 01 11:40:07 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 10:26:53 1998 Received: from falcon (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.27] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKSDn-0007ir-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:26:47 -0800 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKSDj-00028B-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:26:43 -0800 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKSDd-0007hm-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:26:37 -0800 Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 13:19:40 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199804011819.NAA14826@mcfeely.concentric.net> X-Sender: hideo@pop3.concentric.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Tom Lambrecht Subject: Re: It's no crisis- it's just you having fun... Resent-Message-ID: <"87d9nD.A.GVG.CVoI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4802 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:26:37 -0800 X-UIDL: 1437c7255b9c2d71980c8e8be8946dd8 sage advice-- I just picked up a sixer of Liberty Ale and a fifth of Sauza Hornitos and am hunkering down in front of the rack till one of us is looping . . . drone on~~~~~~~~~Tom At 10:00 AM 4/1/98 +0100, you wrote: >1) get a little ambient if your normally stack guitar parts. If are normally ambients, try stacking discrete lines/parts. > >2) put a melodic line that cycles in three over a loop in four. > >3) play an mbira style melody in triplets over a loop in four. > >4) randomly subtitute numbers in suggestions 2&3. > >5) try new harmonies (this alone is worth the cost of my admision)- chords on top of chords, desending lines over asending lines. Fool around over pedal tones. > >6) make percussive tracks by clicking your pickups with your strings, electric screwdrivers, vibrators, etc. > >7) lay down texture beds with electric screwdrivers, vibrators, electric and manual lint removers. > >8) try looping with a bass if you are guitarist. If you play keyboards, see a therapist! ;-) > >9) sell it. > >and my favorite: > >10) go to the store. Buy two sixpacks of Guiness and a half gallon of Wild Turkey 101 (is it just me, or does regular Kickin' Chicken taste like paint thinner?). If it is hot enought, you >are alowed to substitute Tanqueray and tonics. If you have glaucoma, smoke some of your medication. > >Call your friend Bob, the Neil Young fan. Invite him over. Tell him to bring his guitar. > >Set you rig up outside if it is not raining. At least open a window. Hook the output of your JamMan into a tremelo pedal. > >Responsibly sample some of the aforementioned beverage. Perhaps your eyes are still hurting? > >Loop the verse of either 'Down By the River' or 'Cowgirl in the Sand'. > >Turn the tremelo pedal on, and indulge yourself. > > > > > > > Tom Lambrecht hideo@concentric.net From ???@??? Wed Apr 01 11:40:25 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 11:31:35 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.21] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKTE5-0000zN-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:31:09 -0800 Received: from (gatekeeper.wj.com) [204.30.16.2] by falcon.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKSEH-000291-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:27:17 -0800 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.wj.com (8.8.8/8.8.6) id KAA14868; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:26:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from ccsmtp.wj.com(144.172.15.213) by gatekeeper.wj.com via smap (V2.0) id xmaa14858; Wed, 1 Apr 98 10:26:44 -0800 Received: from ccMail by ccsmtp.wj.com (IMA Internet Exchange 2.11 Enterprise) id 000B22BD; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:30:23 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:22:54 -0800 Message-ID: <000B22BD.----@wj.com> From: Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle) Subject: Re[2]: MIDI problems ??? To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, Mike.Biffle@wj.com, Kim Flint Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part X-UIDL: ceddf1c9fde8c00f0fc12b18d3dd0fa7 Kim... after all you've said below, why aren't you mentioning ZIPI? Is that completely dead as a doornail? Did you have any role in it's r+d? -Miko >> >From: matthew hahn [SMTP:esker@mail.utexas.edu] > >> >>And of course the other problem lies between the front and the end. My >old >> >>friend midi. If you actively tried, you would not be able to design a >worse >> >>networking protocol for musicial instrument control than midi. That >alone >> >>has hampered a lot of potential innovation in musical controllers. > > >i dunno - maybe i'm shooting too low, but midi serves me well - i find my >casio gtr triggers excellent-ly, and my midi mitigator does a plethora of >cool stuff, obidiently, like prog change, note on/off info, chord sends, >start/stops, etc. I get to change programs on my ADA MP1, quadraverb, Kawai >synth and even analog old pedals thru my rockman octopus - all useful, >timesaving stuff for what i do - well, here's an example: On your guitar controller, if you play an artificial harmonic, does the synth respond in some appropriate way? When you apply different types of mute techniques, does anything change in the synth patch? What if you pick near the bridge, or use the flesh of your thumb instead of a pick. Or pick near the bridge. Anything? nope. Most of the expressive control over a sound that a guitar gives you is lost, and about all you have left is pitch and 128 volume levels. Now realize: modern synthesizers are quite capable of providing huge and subtle varieties over the timbre of a sound. Modern sensor tehcnology is readily able to detect all of the things you are doing on a guitar string. But when you try to send all of that information from your musical and expressive controller to your musical and expressive synth, you totally swamp midi. It can't handle all the control data. It's incredibly slow, even by standards at the time it was created in 1981. Also, it's "description language" for describing musical events is terribly shortsighted and limited. (it was only ever intended for a piano key trigger to start a simple synth sound). The right words just aren't there to describe most types of musical events. In the world of modern instrument design, midi is the bottleneck, and has been for years. That is why you so rarely see innovative new electronic instruments, and why the ones you do see are so rarely satisfying. Midi has been the immovable object in the middle. for simple uses, midi is fine. It serves some purposes well. But in many ways, its a thing where you don't know what you are missing, because you've never been able to try it. As far as a network design, midi is just stupid. It's unidirectional, the topology leaves you with at mass of wires everywhere, addressing events on any particular device is clumsy and difficult, and you always end up with a device B that can't talk to device A without rewiring everything. The list goes on, and there are others who have expressed it much better than I. I think there are places on the web you can find if you care. As far as loop specific problems, we would ideally want the capability to transmit audio data along with control information, in real time. We would also want the ability to easily define a loop oriented control language, rather than forcing keyboard commands to do it or spending 6 years in committee meetings at the MMA. These things are beyond midi, and the music industry is not able to get itself organized enough to do anything about it. It doesn't really matter now, because Microsoft is happily changing everything to suit their needs, and I don't expect anybody will be able to do anything about that. I'm holding out hope that firewire will finally come into vogue, and at least speed things up a bit. It's the only technology out there that has both the bandwidth for mass data transfers and low enough latency for useful control activity, without being overwhelmingly expensive. any year now..... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Wed Apr 01 11:40:13 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 10:54:48 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKSes-0003ZW-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:54:46 -0800 Message-ID: <19980401184706.3911.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [195.232.30.237] From: "Paul Sellars" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: RE: Crisis!!!!!! Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 10:47:05 PST Resent-Message-ID: <"CNo4bB.A.AfC.vvoI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4803 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:54:46 -0800 X-UIDL: cfa6361c15617830c459d2175d634e8d Crisis management time... In essence I'm quoting one of Brian Eno's Oblique Strategies, which runs (something like): 'Discover what recipes you are using and abandon them' I believe that most of us, consciously or otherwise, make the mistake of building up a kind conceptual agenda for our 'ART' - in other words, we end up creating a (too) complicated idea of what would constitute 'success' or 'good art' for us. You might say 'why not? doesn't that give us our direction?' Well, to an extent perhaps, but it may also limit us to only considering a very narrow band of possibilities - ie: only those possibilities which are compatible with the 'recipe' which we have chosen to follow - as if it were the only true route to 'artistic success.' Practically speaking it is very difficult to do as Eno suggests and just 'discover' the recipes we are following. Personally I have only ever become aware of my own self-imposed limitations in hindsight, after I have shaken them off. I would recommend that you consider what kinds of music, or approaches to music, are 'not your style'. You can probably think of a couple of styles of, or approaches to, music that you have always been somehow prejudiced against. Experiment with one or more of these taboos - even if its contrary to all your instincts. Think of John Coltranes 'Ascension'. Why is that music the way it is? Maybe by abandoning melody, harmony and form in the way he did, he was forcing us to abandon our own recipes. You are left with no way to 'understand' the music, and so are faced with 2 questions: i) how does it sound? and ii) how does it feel? This is why music can be so affecting when one is off ones face on certain chemicals: ones intellectual faculties are diminished, and so one is less inclined to analyse what the musician is doing, and more inclined to just hear the sound, and respond to it naturally. Music is less about being clever, and more about being alive. I seem to have wandered off the point. Forgive me. To anyone facing the rut: why do you want to make music? Can you remember the first time you heard a piece of music and realised that something special was going on? How did you feel? So many rhetorical questions... I'm only writing this because I'm in a bit of a rut with my current tune. Theres more info about the oblique strategies at http://www.msn.fullfeed.com/%7Egtaylor/ObliqueStrategies/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Wed Apr 01 11:40:22 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 11:17:27 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKT0d-0006lj-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:17:15 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:05:49 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Crisis!!!!!! Resent-Message-ID: <"duSKIB.A.x6E.CBpI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4805 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:17:15 -0800 X-UIDL: 3859cf36d255243de53818d570c3240f > Hi friends , I`ve got a major crisis on my hands. I`m gonna come right out >and say it: > >I`ve begun to get doubts about looping.................and I need some >reassuring. > >The thing is , when I loop it doesn`t seem to go anywhere. I always get >stuck in >the same tracks and the music sounds like.........looping. Sometimes my Jamman >can feel like a limitation , rather than a new colour on my (somewhat >limited) canvas. > I played a gig with Minus last night, and afterwards, I noticed that I'd only used the JamMan very briefly. It was not really a concsious decision not to loop or anything, it's just the way that the variables added up for this night, and it seemed that we were a bit lighter on our feet than usual, and it was nice to have the space that the loops usually fill. We're not a looping band, per se, though both the guitarist and I have jamsters (and the drummer's pretty loopy as well), looping is just one of our bag of tricks. >BUT: It worries me that what started out like a dream with endless >posibilities ended >SO QUICKLY. I had a ball with it , played in different musical >situations and HAD FUN. >And now it suddenly feels so alien. Like a third arm or something. > >Have any of you gone through something similar?? If so , how did u get >through it?? > When I go back over tapes of gigs just after I got the JamMan, I now cringe at how much I used it. Over time, I figured out where it was appropriate, where it was just a gimmick, and where it could really do something magical. I think that what you're going through is just your automatic censor kicking in. You've probably learned a lot about the techniques of looping by using it all the time, now subconsciously you are wanting to figure out the esthetics of looping. If what feels right is to play without effects, then do that, but whatever you do, don't get rid of the JamMan, at some point you'll probably come back to it with a better idea of how it fits your personal approach to music. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ "...there will come a day when you won't have to use gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." -Sun Ra ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Wed Apr 01 11:53:06 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 11:50:49 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKTWx-0002WA-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:50:39 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199804011330.AA10145@world.std.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:06:12 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: MIDI problems ??? Resent-Message-ID: <"LfPU.A.L2.mgpI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4808 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:50:40 -0800 X-UIDL: a1979387b6f282841f976296320d9e74 At 8:30 AM -0500 4/1/98, Sean T Barrett wrote: >>Now realize: modern synthesizers are quite capable of providing >>huge and subtle varieties over the timbre of a sound. > >You mean opening and closing a low-pass filter? no. >Multi-samples are still the most-widely used audio >rendering technology around, and that seems to be the >only significant timbral change supported. That would be an example of an old synth technology. (can you say proteus?) Ordinary sample playback is quite lacking in timbral variety. (although that in itself has been exploited to musically useful ends in many genres.) I was referring to more "modern" synthesis techniques which are starting to show up now that the necessary processing power is reasonably affordable. These would be the more algorithmic approaches like physical modelling, additive, resynthesis, granular, etc. These offer much more sophisticated timbral control opportunities, more like you would expect from traditional instruments. >And I've >complained before about the fact that neither the GR-30 nor >the super-filter-centric Morpheus synth actually >bothers having their filters track dynamic pitch >changes (their filters follow triggered pitches, >not pitch bent pitches, which is a poor match for >how guitar controllers transmit things like hammer-ons-- >and the GR-30 is a guitar synth!). Both of those synths are using technology that is 15-20 years old, repackaged in a new container. In both cases they were tossed together out of existing products from those companies, without requireing any new R&D. Both Roland and Emu have much more sophisticated synthesis products, although neither can hardly be considered the technical leaders in the field. In both cases, their meat&potatoes is the sampling technology they started decades ago and neither has made much effort to move beyond that. >I'd much prefer to see them get what they've got >now working better than worry about transmitting new >stuff. I would encourage you to try some more sophisticated synths, to get a better idea of what is out there. >As you say, simply speeding up MIDI will be >a useful first step. If someone can multiplex MIDI >channels somehow so every note gets its own channel, >I think that (the two together) would solve the vast >majority of the problems. People have tried that, several times actually. The industry refused to adopt the idea. It wouldn't really solve the problem anyway, since bandwidth is only a minor part of the problem. What you are talking about is the ability to individually address and control each note event, which midi simply doesn't allow. If you wanted to do it right, you would have to fully scrap the architecture of midi and start over. I was part of one effort to do that already, and despite substantial funding, we didn't get very far. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Wed Apr 01 11:40:23 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 11:28:03 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKTAz-0000Wj-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:27:57 -0800 From: NEMOGUIT Message-ID: <8a290c36.3522920c@aol.com> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 14:14:17 EST To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: just a test Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 81 Resent-Message-ID: <"i4OEm.A.rHG.VJpI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4806 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:27:57 -0800 X-UIDL: 3cd611f67d9ec8e412f7e173065e2899 sorry-lost all my data-this is just a test too see if i got the right address michael From ???@??? Thu Apr 02 01:11:18 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 18:54:08 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.21] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKa8l-0003RC-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 18:54:07 -0800 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKZBP-0003m5-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 17:52:47 -0800 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKZBG-0005NR-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 17:52:38 -0800 From: "Woehni" To: "Mike Biffle" , Subject: Crisis is over! Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 21:22:28 +0200 Message-ID: <01bd5da3$822ecec0$f0024382@pentium-200> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"se9csD.A.XeE.H5uI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4818 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 17:52:38 -0800 X-UIDL: 80262f5675f8ea6775216a5788fc208e Thank you all very much. what all of you wrote is just what I needed. You have reassured me that what I`m going though is perfectly "normal". I`m gonna approach it a little more relaxed now and first of all I`ll take a good easter holiday..... Im shure it will all come around. I`m very happy that I`m on this list......:-) Yours , Thomas W From ???@??? Thu Apr 02 01:10:53 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 13:05:53 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKUhe-00068h-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 13:05:46 -0800 Message-ID: <002201bd5da4$8e62c7e0$4c22dacf@earthlight> Reply-To: "Stephen P. Goodman" From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: Ich Nicht Bin Ein Crisis! Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:29:55 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"SSpRD.A.LRE.LnqI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4813 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 13:05:47 -0800 X-UIDL: 486687aeb64515b739e9a38a65575fb7 Happy April Fools' Day everyone! Really, no joke! Well, sorta... :) But if you point your browsers to my site at http://www.earthlight.net/Studios you'll find a version of the Loop Of The Week made just for April Fools' Day! And the one who figures out where the sounds came from wins! I didn't say what, though... :) Stephen Goodman * It's... The Loop Of The Week! EarthLight Studios * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios From ???@??? Thu Apr 02 01:10:45 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 12:01:57 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKThn-0004H7-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 12:01:51 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Scott Johnson (CAN)" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: RE: just a test Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 14:48:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"OXoqZD.A.ajC.brpI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4810 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 12:01:51 -0800 X-UIDL: 17d3b548c9db964b77e2e47e5d9747e1 Yeah man, this worked! -----Original Message----- From: NEMOGUIT [mailto:NEMOGUIT@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 1998 2:18 PM To: Scott Johnson (CAN) Subject: just a test sorry-lost all my data-this is just a test too see if i got the right address michael From ???@??? Thu Apr 02 01:11:06 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 15:18:19 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.21] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKWll-0001Ta-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 15:18:09 -0800 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKUvS-0004PE-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 13:20:02 -0800 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKUv5-0000W3-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 13:19:39 -0800 Message-ID: <35229CCE.498F@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 13:10:34 -0700 From: baumhaus@earthlink.net Reply-To: baumhaus@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Echoperplexed No More (Oberheim Echoplex Purchase) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"z8H_NB.A.SiG.g1qI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4814 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 13:19:39 -0800 X-UIDL: b5031c97604485514520cefaafabb804 Thanks for the various responses. I'm still waiting to find out how soon a unit will be available (nobody seems to have them in stock), and I found a pretty good price ($569.00 + $95.00 - thanks Marshall) but I have one more question: I plan to add the memory myself; a cursory look thru MacWarehouse turns up 80ns 4MB 30-pin standard SIMMS going for 49.95; assuming these are the right ones, the upgrade should cost me around $150.00. Seems a little high. Anyone? -Lance Glover aka Wafflehead (cheapness in Santa Monica) From ???@??? Thu Apr 02 01:11:04 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 15:04:39 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKWYc-0007Ie-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 15:04:34 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980401132839.009cd900@global.california.com> X-Sender: sechevar@global.california.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 13:28:39 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Sean Echevarria Subject: Re: Echoperplexed No More (Oberheim Echoplex Purchase) In-Reply-To: <35229CCE.498F@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"39-kuC.A.myE.LTsI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4815 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 15:04:34 -0800 X-UIDL: f1bc9e3199d7f42c90bfbbf0eca5e6ca Definitely - I upgraded mine using $11.00 4MB SIMMS from a local retailer in San Jose. You should be able to find some easily in the $15 - $20 range if not locally then by looking at the ads in the back of computer magazines. sean At 01:10 PM 4/1/98 -0700, you wrote: >thru MacWarehouse turns up 80ns 4MB 30-pin standard SIMMS going for >49.95; assuming these are the right ones, the upgrade should cost me >around $150.00. Seems a little high. Anyone? From ???@??? Thu Apr 02 01:11:04 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 15:08:40 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKWcS-00002s-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 15:08:32 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980401214908.00cadf9c@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 13:49:08 -0800 To: baumhaus@earthlink.net From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Echoperplexed No More (Oberheim Echoplex Purchase) Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Resent-Message-ID: <"_0UthB.A.e8F.LasI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4816 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 15:08:32 -0800 X-UIDL: 1ab3133beb4bbeca269b06cf2adc668d At 01:10 PM 4/1/98 -0700, baumhaus@earthlink.net wrote: >Thanks for the various responses. I'm still waiting to find out how soon >a unit will be available (nobody seems to have them in stock), and I >found a pretty good price ($569.00 + $95.00 - thanks Marshall) but I >have one more question: I plan to add the memory myself; a cursory look >thru MacWarehouse turns up 80ns 4MB 30-pin standard SIMMS going for >49.95; assuming these are the right ones, the upgrade should cost me >around $150.00. Seems a little high. Anyone? > I see them for less than $20 all the time. Look around a little more. In fact, I just did a quick search and found this place selling 4MB simms for $10 each. That's $40 for 198 seconds! (for those keeping track, that's 5% of what it cost to do this when the echoplex came out....) http://www.memexpress.com/corporate/Desktop_p.htm kim ________________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 Mpact System Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Thu Apr 02 01:11:31 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 21:55:08 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKcxt-0003US-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 21:55:06 -0800 Sender: mpeters@csi.com Message-ID: <01BD5E0B.E8A3C4E0.mpeters@csi.com> From: Michael Peters To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: AW: Crisis!!!!!! Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 23:56:49 +0200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-Mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"08zd2D.A.NAD.ceyI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4823 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 21:55:06 -0800 X-UIDL: 0421211544c833459bf5c1701f8b5b91 > A friend of mine had that deck of cards that Brian Eno made (Oblique > Strategies?), that seemed to have a lot of interesting possibilites . . good suggestion. The text of the cards is available on the Enoweb. Check http://www.hyperreal.com/music/artists/brian_eno/ michael peters mpeters@csi.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Mpeters/ From ???@??? Thu Apr 02 01:11:13 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 16:44:44 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKY7W-0005PG-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 16:44:42 -0800 From: TritoneDW Message-ID: <485665f0.3522dd01@aol.com> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 19:34:07 EST To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: MIDI Matrix for sale--no loop content Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 56 Resent-Message-ID: <"hl6g3B.A.MFE.L2tI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4817 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 16:44:42 -0800 X-UIDL: 0527ac12a562bfd7d55e50decc89705d Hello all, Please forgive the crass commercialism, but I thought someone here might be interested in the Mesa/Boogie MIDI Matrix switcher I'm selling. For those who don't know, it's an integrated MIDI and guitar amp switching device. It has 6 effects loops, and 8 function switches for controlling amp functions like channel switching, fx loop on/off, etc. One of the effects loops is can be set up to handle footpedals, which is pretty cool (you can place your wah or phase shifter after the pre-amp in your signal chain, which can give quite interesting results). This is a really great switcher, and it's a Boogie, so it's built like a tank. It's in perfect condition, and I'm selling it for $300. I'm also selling a Boogie Mk. IV head, a DOD 12 channel mixer, an old ART Multiverb EXT digital fx box, a Tom Anderson American Classic electric guitar....I should open a store. Email me at TritoneDW@aol.com if you're interested in any of this stuff. Sorry this commercial was so long. Drew Wheeler From ???@??? Thu Apr 02 01:11:21 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 19:13:51 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKaRp-0005BR-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 19:13:49 -0800 Message-Id: <199804020309.WAA02882@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: Re: MIDI problems ??? Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 22:08:20 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"duKFmD.A.ofE.mGwI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4819 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 19:13:49 -0800 X-UIDL: 483e436fa998f291149fabd18a8b3a17 > >start/stops, etc. I get to change programs on my ADA MP1, quadraverb, Kawai > >synth and even analog old pedals thru my rockman octopus - all useful, > >timesaving stuff for what i do - > > well, here's an example: On your guitar controller, if you play an > artificial harmonic, does the synth respond in some appropriate way? well, no - if i want harmonics, i mix in the straight guitar sound. Let me start by saying (without even me reading further)- that i'm one of those guitarists who just deals with the reality of what it is. For instance, do you have the Buzz Feiten retrofit on all your axes?? If not, then from his perspective, and it's many adherents, your guitars aren't really in tune, etc, etc., and so you're limited by that. But - of course, from another perspective, you're not limited at all. Just as a poor kid on some island with a crappy guitar with strings a mile off the neck isn't limited if (s)he is happy with the creative level that can be reached. I use the technology at the level it's at - and i STILL just scratch the surface.. When you apply different types of mute techniques, does anything change in the > synth patch? actually, yes - on some patches - the casio is the only synth controller i've used that is very dynamics-sensitive. So such technique tweaks translate in various subtle ways. What if you pick near the bridge, or use the flesh of your > thumb instead of a pick. Or pick near the bridge. Anything? nope. Most of > the expressive control over a sound that a guitar gives you is lost, You're absolutely right. But - again - i happen to be totally cool with that. Others may not be. I TOTALLY respect that view. But for guitar-type expressiveness, bingo - i use the straight good ol analog guitar, processing optional. and about all you have left is pitch and 128 volume levels. My casio does great bending, on non-percussive sounds, and again, beautiful dynamic response. I create a lot of looped percussion, where i trigger log drums bells, etc, and i use many different volume levels, tantamount to playing these instruments with a drumstick, etc, and being able to hit at varying velocities - very soft, soft, med, hard, harder, etc. Now realize: modern synthesizers are quite capable of providing huge and subtle varieties over > the timbre of a sound. Modern sensor tehcnology is readily able to detect > all of the things you are doing on a guitar string. But when you try to > send all of that information from your musical and expressive controller to > your musical and expressive synth, you totally swamp midi. And one could argue that - every electromagnetic nuance of a plucked string on the best Les Paul or PRS is Not accurately reflected by even the best pickups. It depends on the level of resolution you want to go to. It reminds me of a recent thread on MD vs DAT vs CD vs Cassette vs Reality. It matters not. If you're happy with what ya got - it rules!! Make music. I'm not assuming at all that - you're like this, Kim, but invariably - when i;m in a music store and someone's trying out a guitar synth (usually the rolands) - they are trying to strum open chords, on a piano patch, or play Yngwie style with a marimba patch or a Tangerine Dream type sweeping sound..... It always sounds like crap, and they almost always put the axe down in disgust, with them and their friends muttering about how much gtrsynth sucks, etc. Bummer. It only means i'll always be able to get this crap for cheap when it doesn't sell! It can't handle> all the control data. It's incredibly slow, even by standards at the time > it was created in 1981. Also, it's "description language" for describing musical events is terribly shortsighted and limited. (it was only ever intended for a piano key trigger to start a simple synth sound). I'd have to say you're skipping past some significant midi advances over the years since 1983. It does quite a bit more than that.... >>The right words just aren't there to describe most types of musical events. ..again, this is totally subjective. For example, i'm sure we could find a classical guitarist, or an african kora master, or a 50 year student of the sarod or sitar, any of whom would say that all amplified instruments are limited, and do not accurately translate the 'soul' of the music. And - they'd be right, from their perspective, as you are from yours. But - would this indict the entire concept of amplified instruments??? No. > In the world of modern instrument design, midi is the bottleneck, and has > been for years. That's harsh. Are you willing to say that Peter Gabriel, Vernon Reid, Laurie Anderson, Dave VanTieghem, Jaron Lanier, Allan Holdsworth, Devo, and tons of others i can't think of right now haven't done incredibly creative things with MIDI ??? It's all about integrating it into the rest of your vibe. You seem real bothered that MIDI even exists ! >>That is why you so rarely see innovative new electronic instruments, and why the ones you do see are so rarely satisfying.Midi has been the immovable object in the middle. Not so, in my humble opinion. You don't see the innovative instruments beacuse the economics aren't there to support their production/distrubution on a wide scale. What about the Korg WaveDrum, or the Samchillian Tip Tip Tip Cheeepeee (a very weird, cool, interactive midi controller designed by Leon Gruenbaum, who plays on Vernon Reid's solo CD and in his band). Or how about the new MIDI - Theremin that Bob Moog has come up with ?? And there's tons more that i and you have never heard of (and won't). Korg, Roland, Kawai, Yamaha, have to see big numbers before they'll get behind something 'weird'. - so they wont' do it. What you're saying is tantamount to asking "..why do we rarely see innovative new music.." well - yes - never in the mainstream, because of $$$$. same thing here. Let me remind you that Casio killed production on it's CZ 101 synth - due to poor sales from their perspective. Yet in the synth world - it broke all sales records, and was a monster hit (and is still a pretty prized little synth). But to giant watch and cheesy keyboard manufacturer Casio - these numbers didn't translate. So they killed it. I think this is teh dynamic that prevents us from seeing "innovative new electronic instruments", not the existence of MIDI !! I'm totally on your side, i just disagree as to the reasons. > for simple uses, midi is fine. It serves some purposes well. But in many > ways, its a thing where you don't know what you are missing, because you've > never been able to try it. but what you ARE able to do is often awesome!! > > As far as a network design, midi is just stupid. It's unidirectional, so is the audio-signal traveling along a guitar cable, which, to be fair, is what you started the comparison on. Again, you seem inordinately bugged by an inanimate protocol - just don't use it. > it's topology leaves you with at mass of wires everywhere, addressing events on > any particular device is clumsy and difficult, really?? again, i seem to have missed all these problems. I have one midi cable from guitar to footpedal. One cable from footpedal to preamp. Then, one short "thru" cable between each of the following - the preamp, synth1, delay, sampler, synth2. With a simple patch on my Mitigator (many other devices can do this too), i can send dozens of individual commands to different devices on different channels. Before you calculate some kind of minute delay problems, remember, for practical purposes - that means a couple of delay units, a quadraverb or two, changing a patch on 2 or 3 synths, etc. All simultaneously, all thru midi. With 16 channels, unless you're trying to control an entire 64 track automated studio and all it's outboard gear, there's no problem and you always end up with > device B that can't talk to device A without rewiring everything. I'm really sorry this has been your experience. All MIDI requires is a little patience and some channel calibrations. Every MIDI device has an implementation chart in it's manual, which clearly shows all the stuff it can recieve/send. You go from there. The list goes on, and there are others who have expressed it much better than I. I > think there are places on the web you can find if you care. Please point me to some, so i can see what devices they have had such a bad time with. > > As far as loop specific problems, we would ideally want the capability to > transmit audio data along with control information, in real time. We would > also want the ability to easily define a loop oriented control language, who's we?? have you taken a poll on this??? Not trying to be flippant, i really like your ideas, Kim, and you've been a great help to me many times, but i think on this MIDI stuff, you're kinda off base. Why should we be looking for it to do ANYTHING we dream?? - Why not require fretless sounds out of a fretted guitar. Explain to me how that would be different from most of what you're demanding of MIDI. It does what it does, it's implementation has been improved thru the years, and you use it to it's limits, which i challenge you to find me someone who really has. - No - i don't mean someone who has become frustrated because MIDI doesn't do what they WANT it to do, but someone who has exhausted everything that midi CAN do.... > rather than forcing keyboard commands to do it or spending 6 years in > committee meetings at the MMA. These things are beyond midi, So, blame midi. That's like saying - "Language doesn't accurately decribe the emotion of Love - so Language sucks" No! - Language does what it does, and can never duplicate the look in a lover's eyes or a soft touch or a wordless murmur, etc., all of which transmit the feeling of "love" . I hope you see my metaphor. Anyway - i hope this discussion continues - please don't take any of this in anger, i mean only to provide a different perspective on this issue, and i know i'm in the "minority" here as a synth-guitarist. Peace thru music, however it's made!!! Andre' From ???@??? Thu Apr 02 01:11:26 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 19:51:09 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKb1v-00011m-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 19:51:07 -0800 Message-ID: <35230A76.6D84@bgnet.bgsu.edu> Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 22:48:06 -0500 From: Jeff Schwartz X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Cheap, fun synth References: <199804020309.WAA02882@shell.monmouth.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"X4lfDD.A.3h.IpwI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4820 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 19:51:07 -0800 X-UIDL: 8dadc2813bb99448c941abe40b7b98e3 I've had this gizmo about a month and finally used it on a gig, so I thought I'd report to y'all. I am refering to the Boss SYB-3 Bass Synthesizer pedal. Some freak at Roland put an oscillator and an envelope filter in a stompbox. No special pickup is required-tracking is OK on guitar & bass. Oddly, it covers the same range on both-the bottom 2 1/2 octaves. If you play more than one note at once it warbles interestingly, much like a Whammy pedal. I ran the SYB-3 into the Whammy to increase its range and it sounds pretty good with the 1 or 2 octave up settings. I haven't run anything except guitar and bass through it, but I bet miked horns or vocals could produce some pretty sick sounds. There have been reviews in Guitar Player & Bass Player that give details of the features, so I just thought I'd give my account of using it. It's very cool for getting some basic analog synth sounds, especially on the 70s P-Funk tip. The wave shape modes get a neat fuzz sound-like overdriving a 4-track or a stereo. This and the T-wah mode work over the whole range. I was able to use the wave shape instead of an overdrive for leads & the t-wah sounded very cool on scratchy funk octaves. The envelope filter sounds better on the synth sounds than in the t-wah mode and, in that mode, kicks ass on every pedal filter I've heard except for the Lovetone Meatball. I got this gizmo for $160-money well spent. The main drawback is that its hard to adjust on stage. There's no memory-you just need to twist knobs and hope for the best. Also, the 7 synth modes are pretty similar except for the 2 that give an octave down and the three that mix noise into the sound-the sine, square, and sawtooth waves sound a lot alike. So, it doesn't have nearly the flexability of a low-end Moog or even an old Roland GR-300, but it's pretty fun... -- Jeff Schwartz jeffs@bgnet.bgsu.edu http://www.bgsu.edu/~jeffs/main.html From ???@??? Thu Apr 02 01:11:27 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 20:00:11 1998 Received: from falcon (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.27] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKbAe-00020n-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 20:00:08 -0800 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKbAe-0001Wi-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 20:00:08 -0800 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKbAY-0001zy-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 20:00:02 -0800 Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 19:59:52 -0800 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <485665f0.3522dd01@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: MIDI Matrix for sale--no loop content Resent-Message-ID: <"41docD.A.nbB.YxwI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4821 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 20:00:02 -0800 X-UIDL: b3a18cc6386973f596cc12ac7645e855 Drew, I'm interested in the Midi Matirx. Does it come with the Abacus foot controller? - Chris >Hello all, > >Please forgive the crass commercialism, but I thought someone here might be >interested in the Mesa/Boogie MIDI Matrix switcher I'm selling. > >For those who don't know, it's an integrated MIDI and guitar amp switching >device. It has 6 effects loops, and 8 function switches for controlling amp >functions like channel switching, fx loop on/off, etc. One of the effects >loops is can be set up to handle footpedals, which is pretty cool (you can >place your wah or phase shifter after the pre-amp in your signal chain, which >can give quite interesting results). This is a really great switcher, and it's >a Boogie, so it's built like a tank. It's in perfect condition, and I'm >selling it for $300. > >I'm also selling a Boogie Mk. IV head, a DOD 12 channel mixer, an old ART >Multiverb EXT digital fx box, a Tom Anderson American Classic electric >guitar....I should open a store. Email me at TritoneDW@aol.com if you're >interested in any of this stuff. Sorry this commercial was so long. > >Drew Wheeler From ???@??? Thu Apr 02 01:11:29 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 20:49:03 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKbvm-0006G3-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 20:48:50 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980402044439.00c29c30@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 20:44:39 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: MIDI problems ??? Resent-Message-ID: <"KDJBt.A.wcF.NfxI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4822 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 20:48:50 -0800 X-UIDL: ef8deae6c75d950f616bc83876353f1a heh, heh. Andre, you have far more energy for this than I do! If you are happy with what you have, great! But I think you largely missed my point, which is: The possiblity for incredible advances in the expressiveness and musicality electronic instruments could be here, if not for the unfortunate (and well documented by other people) limitations of midi. I spent a number of years in R&D labs working on early prototypes of such instruments, and I find it frustrating that they can't be enjoyed by the rest of the world. I hope that someday this will change, but that day will not come through acceptance of the status quo. If you want to learn some more about some midi alternatives and possible future musical networking technologies try these: the ZIPI home page (actually the "what happened to zipi home page"): http://cnmat.cnmat.berkeley.edu/ZIPI/ ZIPI docs published in the winter 1994 computer music journal: ftp://mitpress.mit.edu/pub/Computer-Music-Journal/Texts/ZIPI/ especially the one describing midi's limitations: ftp://mitpress.mit.edu/pub/Computer-Music-Journal/Texts/ZIPI/midi-comparison.t ZIPI's Music Parameter Description Language: http://cnmat.cnmat.berkeley.edu/ZIPI/mpdl.html cnmat's current efforts with Open Sound Control: http://cnmat.cnmat.berkeley.edu/OpenSoundControl/ and for kicks, microsoft's DirectMusic: http://www.microsoft.com/directx/pavilion/future/dmusic.htm kim ________________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 Mpact System Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Thu Apr 02 09:19:04 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 2 04:46:17 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKjNo-0007em-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 04:46:16 -0800 Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 02:12:22 -0600 From: John Pollock Subject: Re: Crisis!!!!!! To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Message-id: <35234866.27A9@delphi.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <01bd5d67$b13e32a0$df024382@pentium-200> Resent-Message-ID: <"ZSC4FB.A.R-G.Sg4I1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4824 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 04:46:16 -0800 X-UIDL: 115e7c16b2ca9710ba0da735fb535d5b Woehni wrote: > > Hi friends , I`ve got a major crisis on my hands. I`m gonna come right out > and say it: > > I`ve begun to get doubts about looping.................and I need some reassuring. > > The thing is , when I loop it doesn`t seem to go anywhere. I always get stuck in > the same tracks and the music sounds like.........looping. Sometimes my Jamman > can feel like a limitation , rather than a new colour on my (somewhat limited) canvas. Thomas, Clearly, you're just not cut out for looping. The only solution is for you to box up your JamMan and send it to me. ;-) Seriously, I'm frequently frustrated myself; perhaps even more so because my only looper (Vortex) offers less than two seconds of looping. Here are some things I do to relieve the frustration: (a) Go to http://ott-outreach.engin.umich.edu/torn/ and listen to the RealAudio excerpt of "each prince to his kingdom" for a reminder of how powerful even a very short loop can be. (b) Remember that I'm a human being first, a performer somewhat lower in the hierarchy, and a player of a particular instrument still lower. I have a fairly elaborate rig, but these days most of my musical energy is going into a beatup old flattop acoustic guitar, unplugged. All the other stuff can and will wait until I'm ready to get back to it. (c) Remind myself that, even if I decide looping is a complete waste of my time, _I've scratched the itch_. I don't have to wonder-- I _know_, because I've tried it. That alone is worth the price of my Vortex/your JamMan, even if they couldn't be resold at a handsome profit. (d) Note that I've been playing guitar for 37 years, harmonica longer than that, steel guitar for 25 years, synthesizers for more than ten-- and have just begun to scratch the surface of my own potential on any of them. Why should a looper be any different? I do have the rest of my life to try to get it right. (e) Repeat to myself: "It's the journey, not the destination... It's the journey, not the destination... It's the journey, not the destination... It's the journey, not the destination... It's the journey... " John Troubador Tech (http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock/) From ???@??? Thu Apr 02 09:19:25 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 2 06:50:53 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKlKK-0007gB-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 06:50:48 -0800 Message-ID: <352350EB.7B24D75E@nyfac.com> Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 09:48:43 +0100 From: tdbajus Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Oblique Stategies References: <01BD5E0B.E8A3C4E0.mpeters@csi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dq9wvC.A.k2G.FU6I1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4827 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 06:50:48 -0800 X-UIDL: d9464b2092d5f7cf8085ab45e44490c4 This sight is great for those seeking inspirations. Something else to print and put on the rack... Trevor From ???@??? Fri Apr 03 00:27:13 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 2 10:18:20 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.21] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKoZ5-000786-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 10:18:15 -0800 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKoZ2-0007O0-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 10:18:12 -0800 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKoYv-00076j-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 10:18:05 -0800 Message-ID: <35235A4E.F6805425@nyfac.com> Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 10:28:46 +0100 From: tdbajus Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Pickups, accurate reproduction, Fred Frith again (was: MIDI problems ???) References: <199804020309.WAA02882@shell.monmouth.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"u-oCTD.A.5NF.mO9I1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4830 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 10:18:05 -0800 X-UIDL: 82b0f959281c6705b7a4cdfaf3e8be45 This is not another dating thread. > And one could argue that - every electromagnetic nuance of a plucked string > on the best Les Paul or PRS is Not accurately reflected by even the best > pickups. There are many of us that would say that this is a blessing, although a mixed blessing. I moved last weekend (I'll get to the point in a bit), and stripped down to only the barest possessions. For me that is. When I moved from Hoboken to Brooklyn, I managed to fill a 14 foot U-Haul truck almost to the top with all of my stuff: I had nine guitar amps, five guitars (real ones, not including the junkers I was kicking around, drilling holes in- more on these poor victimes later), a big ole rack of recording gear, and other less important stuff (you know, clothes, a bed, stuff like that). This last move, I was able to get everything a large Econoline van. One of the things that I was forced to do was finally give up on a lot of projects that I was working on- In particular, the Fred Frith neck pickup project. I would up giving this guy three of my junk guitars for him to turn into sculpture, along with about 15lbs of junked guitar parts I was saving, just incase I ever wanted to, I don't know, make my futon frame into a tune-able electric zither or something. Now that I have been forced to move into the dreaded singer/songwriter realm, I have tried to stop playing my electric unplugged, because nothing sounds the same plugged and unplugged. Rather than use a well designed, comfortable guitar like you Klein lovers out there, I have sold my Paul Reed Smith and my Custom Shop Les Paul, because I never played them- why? How can you resist the ol' Fender Jaguar (highly modified, of course). Who needs to stay in tune. Buzz Feiten would laugh his ass off if he played my guitar. The problem with the Jag is that the way it sounds plugged into and amp is completely different than the unplugged sounds. Don't laugh- I'm not talking about volume and tone controls here. Through the amp, you only hear the section of string between your fingers (or nut) and the bridge. Sitting in my bedroom at 4:00am, I here countermelodies from the strings between my fingers and the nut, as well as all those groovy sympathetic vibrations from the section of string between the bridge and the tremelo. Hence the Fred Frith Pickup Project. Mr. Frith has a pickup that he has clamped to the headstock of one of his guitars (so I am told) to get those string sounds between his fingers and the nut. BTW: Lee Renaldo had one of his Jazzmasters routed out between the bridge and trem so that he could install a pickup there. I guess it didn't work out very well as he has since taken it out. I had this one seriously abused plywood SG copy that I had routed out (chiseled out, actually) between the bridge and trem from the LR pickup idea. All it really did was give some kind of weird comb filtering and a few strongly resonent but otherwise not very interesting tones- I have since determined that I like the sound of the sympathetic vibrations to the real thing. I should have known that I wasn't going to get what I was hearing through my ears. I drove myself crazy for a LONG trime trying to get a sound out of my guitar that sounded like it did when I was unplugged. But I still haven't given up totally on the FF pickup project. With enough bow in your neck, you be playing with double hammer-ons and quadruple stops! Anybody try this out ever? Trevor Piezos in the bridge and nut might be kind of cool, harmonywise, but I hate the sound of those things...... From ???@??? Thu Apr 02 09:19:32 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 2 07:48:24 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKmDz-0004iQ-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 07:48:19 -0800 Message-ID: <35235E80.36226C0B@nyfac.com> Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 10:46:40 +0100 From: tdbajus Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Simulations and labor saving devices (was: Re: MIDI problems ??? References: <199804021229.AA16762@world.std.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"yB4o0B.A.sGE.NK7I1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4828 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 07:48:19 -0800 X-UIDL: e4545e32e633a97bc9cc086d5a85ad1e > I didn't reply to your other mail on this subject 'cause > I think we're off-topic, but while I'm here, I strongly > disagree with your definition of "modern synthesis > technology". The two mail-order catalogs I have > handy seem to have one or two "analog modelling" > synths, and all the rest are sample-playback. > Keyboard's NAMM report lists quite a few faux-analog > synths, but I don't remember seeing any of the "hot > synthesis techniques" you've listed (analog is hardly > new, it's just the digital emulation of it that is). I think the whole idea a digital synth trying to emulate an analog synth is laughable. It is not as if analog synths aren't easily and cheaply made. Right? Sean, are you comfortable playing with a keyboard? Or do you like the feel of how the guitar/midi thing controls it? Those rare times I have felt the need to record a synth sound (usually I just stack a few delay pedals, distortion, and an ebow) I just goofed around on a keyboard untill I could play the part. When I was an indentured servant at Sam Ass, Vernon Reid (name dropping!) came in and tried this new guitar midi converter out with me. It uses (used?) some kind of fuzzy logic sort of thing, and was supposed to be really fast. This was back in my Coleman/Coltrane days, with big wide intervals, tritones, and (for me) lots o' speed. [For those of you who are concerned, I sought professional help, and I am feeling much better now]. Anyway, the damn thing sputtered and hiccupped, and generally made a mess of things. Funny thing was, Vernon (far better faster cooler- although much, much shorter than me) had the think working pretty well. I could never figure it out. I read in an interview with Andy Summers where he slagged the whole midi thing. He said something along the lines of 'If you want to sound like a harmonica, learn to play a harmonica'. I think that might be a bit close minded, but It has always been easier for me to learn how to play the real thing than its emulations. I had a drum machine for about three years before I had regular access to a drum kit- in six months, I was twice as good at the real thing than on the machine (except for the timing thing- oops!). I still can't program the damned thing worth a fart, even now. Trevor From ???@??? Thu Apr 02 09:19:13 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 2 05:36:37 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKkAV-0002l4-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 05:36:35 -0800 Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 07:29:16 -0500 From: buzzard@world.std.com (Sean T Barrett) Message-Id: <199804021229.AA16762@world.std.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: MIDI problems ??? Resent-Message-ID: <"FFsJvB.A.sUC.AP5I1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4826 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 05:36:35 -0800 X-UIDL: f0887bd2312350d0acc098640a73dba0 >If you want to learn some more about some midi alternatives and possible >future musical networking technologies try these: > >the ZIPI home page (actually the "what happened to zipi home page"): > http://cnmat.cnmat.berkeley.edu/ZIPI/ I still disagree with you, Kim. The good parts of ZIPI are its support for per-note effects and its performance; as I said before, transmit MIDI over some faster physical link, and multiplex it for more channels, and you've got all that. (Just send every note on its own channel.) [Ok, ZIPI's approach to pitches is a lot better.] Most of the rest of ZIPI seems poorly thought out to me. Odd/Even harmonic content? Isn't that a little overly specific? In general, ZIPI seemed obsessed with what I could characterize as: measure some quality at the controller, transmit that quality over the network, allow the receiver to determine how to reproduce that quality. That sounds totally _wrong_ to me. In reality, different sound sources are going to have different abilities. You _have_ to remap from one quality on the controller to a different quality on a sound source. In fact, this can be an enormous source of creativity. Given that you have to remap, and given that every controller provides special things, why even waste your time on "odd/even harmonic content"? Do like MIDI continuous controllers-- a large set of entirely unnamed "qualities", and then manufacturers evolve over time a common set of _controllable_ properties. The drive to "name" the qualities comes from the sound _sources_, not the controllers. Then the controller measures the qualities in the performance and determines how to remap that onto the known set of things. As far as I know, this works in MIDI. Of course MIDI is broken in terms of per-note things, and continuous versus just-at-note-start things; I just mean the notion of which-side-of-the-system is responsible for "defining" what qualities of sounds are "interesting". But none of the ZIPI docs seemed to provide a rationale for shifting this remapping onto the receiver, away from the controller. I didn't reply to your other mail on this subject 'cause I think we're off-topic, but while I'm here, I strongly disagree with your definition of "modern synthesis technology". The two mail-order catalogs I have handy seem to have one or two "analog modelling" synths, and all the rest are sample-playback. Keyboard's NAMM report lists quite a few faux-analog synths, but I don't remember seeing any of the "hot synthesis techniques" you've listed (analog is hardly new, it's just the digital emulation of it that is). Those things may be the bleeding edge in sound technology, and if that's what you really meant, that's fine. I thought you were saying the average everyday "modern synth" had all this capability nobody was touching because of MIDI. If you're saying instead that MIDI is crippling the ability to do newer next-generation synths... well, you're just bemoaning the fact that technological innovation is difficult in this industry, and I still tend to think that's not 'cause of MIDI, but because of the economic incentive to stick to the things everybody already knows (which we've already talked about to death as well). Sean From ???@??? Fri Apr 03 00:28:41 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 2 22:59:12 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yL0RS-0005ZL-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 22:59:10 -0800 Message-ID: <01BD5E48.0D043E00.andrew@bocs.com> From: andrew Reply-To: "andrew@no_spambocs.co.com" To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Crisis!!!!!! Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 15:00:16 +0100 Organization: bocs X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2ARu-B.A.-8E.dgIJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4843 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 22:59:10 -0800 X-UIDL: c31b19abfaecba7bf467ae5369dc5432 I'd really recommend reading dt's aritcle from GP (it's reprinted... somewhere..) somewhere here :-- http://ott-outreach.engin.umich.edu/torn/ Andrew From ???@??? Thu Apr 02 09:19:43 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 2 08:28:35 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKmqr-0000p4-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 08:28:29 -0800 Message-ID: <3523BE42.A53398B6@mailbox.syr.edu> Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 11:35:13 -0500 From: mark sottilaro Reply-To: msottila@mailbox.syr.edu Organization: metaliminal X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: 0-xing. Syracuse loop show. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"SwUdJ.A.nQH.Vs7I1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4829 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 08:28:29 -0800 X-UIDL: fedad6f8bf520cb6faa11eefa133edef Hey all, My ambient (illbient?)/dance/electronica/sound collage project "Zero Crossing" will be performing at Zopie's Cafe in Syracuse NY on April 9th @ 10:00pm. Any in the area are welcome to attend. It's free, and we're putting together a wacky "last supper" theme in honor of Holy thursday. If anyone happens to see Peter Gabriel, tell him to call me. ;-p -- Mark Sottilaro http://web.syr.edu/~msottila "I know who you are baby I've seen you go into that meditative state You're the snake charmer, baby and you're also a snake You're a closed circuit... --Laurie Anderson From ???@??? Fri Apr 03 00:27:24 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 2 11:50:25 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKq0E-0002z3-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 11:50:22 -0800 Message-Id: <199804021941.OAA11906@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: Re: MIDI problems ??? Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 14:40:57 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3aYNuB.A.n3B.1o-I1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4831 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 11:50:22 -0800 X-UIDL: b7869303432257fec4429a14178fd796 > > heh, heh. Andre, you have far more energy for this than I do! spirulina, it even looks like a little green LOOP > > If you are happy with what you have, great! But I think you largely missed > my point, which is: > > The possiblity for incredible advances in the expressiveness and musicality > electronic instruments could be here, but no matter how far we go, someone will always point to the horizon and say - "We could be over there, if only..." >if not for the unfortunate (and well documented by other people) limitations of midi. I spent a number of years > in R&D labs working on early prototypes of such instruments, and I find it frustrating that they can't be enjoyed by the >rest of the world. and i think i addressed this - in the 'economic vs. reality' part of my screed.. it's been shown that most guitar cables filter out all kinds of cool frequencies from our signals - should we all be using $45 gold tip cables? Music. Music. >I hope that someday this will change, but that day will not come through acceptance of the status quo. > > > If you want to learn some more about some midi alternatives and possible > future musical networking technologies try these: > and thanks for the great links and the fine dialog. I'm gonna go loop with my *new* addition - a 10 year old Kawai MX8BR 8channel mixer....wow -what a difference it makes for me!!! yippeee!!! (or, rather - Zipppeee!!!) peace thru music andre' From ???@??? Fri Apr 03 00:27:28 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 2 12:16:25 1998 Received: from falcon (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.27] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKqPO-0005zj-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 12:16:22 -0800 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKqPJ-0005K3-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 12:16:17 -0800 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKqPB-0005yA-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 12:16:09 -0800 Message-Id: <199804021951.OAA16274@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: DT's studio Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 14:51:28 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LOWcYB.A.8tE.C_-I1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4832 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 12:16:09 -0800 X-UIDL: f83f7b1bb783c0bd43a76ac8165ec07a hey can anyone tell me which issue of Musician had the home studio feature on DT's studio ???? it was in the last 3 years or so... help, andre' From ???@??? Fri Apr 03 00:27:30 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 2 12:33:56 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKqgM-0000Hz-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 12:33:54 -0800 X-From_:lwordsman@pirnie.com Thu Apr 02 12:33:51 1998 Received: from mail-whi.pirnie.com (mail-whi.malcolmpirnie.com) [207.93.215.211] by ferret.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKqgH-0000FA-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 12:33:49 -0800 Received: from Pirnie.com ([10.1.2.27]) by mail-whi.malcolmpirnie.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with ESMTP id 245 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 15:46:11 -0500 Message-ID: <3523F5A3.8D2CADC6@Pirnie.com> Old-Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 15:31:32 -0500 From: "Lee Wordsman" Reply-To: Lwordsman@Pirnie.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: (no subject) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Diagnostic: undecipherable, help sent X-Envelope-To: Loopers-Delight Sender: SmartList Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 12:33:54 -0800 X-UIDL: 32bc2b1c69732a0ee881ffcf6071929c I need to unsubscribe for a few weeks and loopers delight is down. Can anyone repost the address that you should email to with the unsubscribe message in the subject and body. Thanks in Advance. From ???@??? Fri Apr 03 00:27:33 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 2 12:52:10 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.21] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKqxp-0002a9-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 12:51:57 -0800 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKqxl-0007Ba-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 12:51:53 -0800 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKqxZ-0002Xl-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 12:51:41 -0800 Message-ID: <3523F7F5.1D26@isrv.com> Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 15:42:00 -0500 From: Glenn Greenway X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: JamMan Delay Mode References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Tzn_7B.A.5UB.Qh_I1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4833 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 12:51:41 -0800 X-UIDL: a79b91d919f2d826e39aa91241b1831a Hello again: To the folks who offered suggestions, thanks. The pan pedal idea sounds great but I've got to use the JamMan in my Marshall's effect loop, not out front. I tried an A/B pedal between the Marshall's out and the JamMan's in and then summing the JamMan's 'A' out and the dry 'B' out with a Y cable. Sounds like an easy solution, right? Wrong. As long as the JamMan is connected this way the output of the Y cable is almost all 'A' and almost no 'B'. Sounds like sound kind of esoteric impedence problem but I'm pretty simple. I'm pretty sure all components are working properly, but its hard to be certain. Any further suggestions are really appreciated. Glenn From ???@??? Fri Apr 03 00:27:34 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 2 13:00:29 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKr5x-0003eq-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 13:00:21 -0800 From: Edward_Chang@mail.amsinc.com Date: Thu, 02 Apr 98 15:53:31 EST Encoding: 14 Text Message-Id: <9803028915.AA891561591@mail.amsinc.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Any experimental Venues in NJ? Resent-Message-ID: <"OKuXb.A.lOC.So_I1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4834 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 13:00:21 -0800 X-UIDL: 43cf093f7b57a26988652e2335a1ee59 Hi all, I'm setting up a tour with my experimental duo project "Spin-17" and was wondering if anybody might know of a way (place, contact, etc..) for us to do a show in NJ? The music is improv-based and uses clarinet, guitar, turntables, electronics, voice and toys. It's not necessarily "loop-based", though once in awhileawhileawhile.... I hate to compare but we "sound like" Stockhausen vs. Pizzicato 5 vs. Squarepusher vs. John Zorn vs. John Cage vs. Negativland. All we're looking for is a little gas money and roof and a few enthusiastically open ears. In any case, thanks for any help... ed chang edward_chang@mail.amsinc.com (212) 253-6214 From ???@??? Fri Apr 03 00:27:44 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 2 14:21:32 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKsMK-0005bQ-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 14:21:20 -0800 From: Marzzz Message-ID: Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 17:09:32 EST To: andre@monmouth.com, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: DT's studio Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Resent-Message-ID: <"7_SZND.A.tXE.p2AJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4835 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 14:21:21 -0800 X-UIDL: 80ada502463e2cfc5eadc83e2038b4aa In a message dated 4/2/98 2:21:33 PM, Andre wrote: >can anyone tell me which issue of Musician had the home studio feature on >DT's studio ???? it was in the last 3 years or so... March 97, page 82. Marshall From ???@??? Fri Apr 03 00:27:45 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 2 14:37:10 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKsba-0007eI-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 14:37:06 -0800 Message-ID: <011201bd5e86$e4280ae0$7df2ffd0@default> From: "future perfect" To: Subject: Re: DT's studio Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 17:30:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"HcF24C.A.zGG.AEBJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4836 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 14:37:06 -0800 X-UIDL: 557c63c96f1783b9ea19e20a023f7626 Anyone who has that issue that has acess to a scanner (and is very generous) wanna scan it for me? Pretty please? Dave Eichenberger ********************************************************************* 'Future Perfect' - art music - visit our website at: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/8082 > >In a message dated 4/2/98 2:21:33 PM, Andre wrote: > >>can anyone tell me which issue of Musician had the home studio feature on >>DT's studio ???? it was in the last 3 years or so... > >March 97, page 82. > > >Marshall > From ???@??? Thu Apr 02 09:19:06 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 2 05:08:22 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKjjA-00019Y-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 05:08:20 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980402144920.1def9a2c@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> X-Sender: pycraft@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 14:49:20 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: "Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D." Subject: Re: Crisis!!!!!! In-Reply-To: <35234866.27A9@delphi.com> References: <01bd5d67$b13e32a0$df024382@pentium-200> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"gaDHSC.A.R2.w04I1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4825 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 05:08:20 -0800 X-UIDL: fa6d3670268703bf0229722bc90fff06 Thomas: > Hi friends , I`ve got a major crisis on my hands. I`m gonna come right out > and say it: I`ve begun to get doubts about looping.................and I need > some reassuring. > > The thing is , when I loop it doesn`t seem to go anywhere. I always get >stuck in the same tracks and the music sounds like.........looping. >Sometimes my Jamman can feel like a limitation , rather than a new colour >on my (somewhat limited) canvas. Now Thomas (et al), this may seem harsh, but I too have experiemced this situation and after careful thought put it down to my own playing. In this respect, I found Dave Torn's advice (thanks DT!) most helpful - "looping is your plating, but more of it". When I always sounded the same, I realised it was because my _playing_ always sounded the same. So it gave me an opportunity to take my playing apart, to find new ways of playing. It broadened my ears, so to speak. I'd really recommend reading dt's aritcle from GP (it's reprinted... somewhere..) which has absolutely to advice for these problems. My fave? "Q. How do I stop my loops sounding like other people's? A. Stop playing like other people." Michael From ???@??? Fri Apr 03 00:27:49 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 2 15:22:01 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKtIz-0005NG-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 15:21:57 -0800 Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 17:11:24 -0600 (CST) From: John Roseborough X-Sender: jrose@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: MIDI problems ??? (fwd) In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980402164934.0098b2f0@mail.purity.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ZQ51UD.A.g4D.JtBJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4837 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 15:21:57 -0800 X-UIDL: 813301294dede265579a2455b0877320 Kim, thanks for that Microsoft pointer - I nearly fell out of my chair laughing! >From http://www.microsoft.com/directx/pavilion/future/dmusic.htm (see the heading "Use Interactive Music to Add Life"): "Repetition is lifeless. Repetition is boring. Repetition is dismal. The variable nature of DirectMusic provides you with welcome relief from that short clip of music that loops over and over and over. In the same way graphics typically follow the user's influence, you can create music that parallels the action of the story with subtle changes of patterns, textures, colors, harmonies, volume, and tempo." John > Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 20:44:39 -0800 > From: Kim Flint > Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Subject: Re: MIDI problems ??? > Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 20:50:57 -0800 > Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Resent-To: jrose@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu [SNIP] > and for kicks, microsoft's DirectMusic: > http://www.microsoft.com/directx/pavilion/future/dmusic.htm > > > kim > ________________________________________________________ > Kim Flint 408-752-9284 > Mpact System Engineering kflint@chromatic.com > Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Fri Apr 03 00:28:00 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 2 16:36:15 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKuSg-0006cH-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 16:36:03 -0800 Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 18:17:00 -0500 (EST) From: Apple-O To: Apple-O Subject: live music saturday @ nyc Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"0rOum.A.qwE.BwCJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4840 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 16:36:03 -0800 X-UIDL: 5ec7cb7fd50f1952329bbc2dbda83d01 We are playing Saturday night in NYC... untld_snd = untitled sound = rythmaticsoundscapexperiments Jennifer Ermler Jim McGinnis Chad Wetherbee ++special guests++ Swar Apple-O plus DJ's Suit and Cruz Missle on the 12's Saturday April 4th...$5 9-9:30 dj 9:30-11 set 1 (3-piece lineup) 11-11:30 dj 11:30-1am (5-piece lineup) it's Step-In at the Cornelia St. Cafe it's in the West Village, off w 4th st. between 6th and 7th aves... From ???@??? Fri Apr 03 00:27:57 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 2 15:52:21 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKtmL-0001Km-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 15:52:17 -0800 Message-Id: <199804022339.SAA04488@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: Re: Any experimental Venues in NJ? Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 18:39:26 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MBrkPB.A.uSH.cICJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4838 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 15:52:17 -0800 X-UIDL: af71ffa98de75ec8e30fcaaa1eb17786 > > Hi all, > > I'm setting up a tour with my experimental duo project "Spin-17" and was > wondering if anybody might know of a way (place, contact, etc..) for us to do a > show in NJ? The music is improv-based and uses clarinet, guitar, turntables, hey Ed... a few places spring to mind for me, having not ventured too far around NJ for this kinda stuff - the saint - where my duo JFK's LSD UFO (sneaky plugg) is gonna be this week, is friendly to doing a "weird nite" ever so often. we've been ther with buckethead and bon lozaga before, i've also done gigs there with bon lozaga and mike keneally. so - they are willing to take a chance here & there. the main phn number is 732-775-9144, Listen to the message for what to do re: booking. and you can certainly say "andre put me in touch", i know scott well sometimes the court tavern will go out on a limb - they are in the college town of new brunswick, that helps. their booking # is 732-545-3969. Get in touch with Princeton radio station WPRB - (609-258-3655) they have an electronic/experimental music show which would help for exposure, also someone there might be able to help for shows in the princeton area. Of course WFMU ( http://www.wprb.org ) is a great resource, they have bands play live on the air fr. time to time.. it's a totally free form, listener supported radio station.. of course you can private email me - i'll do what i can to help with any of the above. peaceloops andre' From ???@??? Fri Apr 03 00:27:59 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 2 15:59:16 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKtt2-0002Dc-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 15:59:12 -0800 Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 18:40:14 -0500 From: R & T Cummings Subject: Re: Cheap, fun synth Sender: R & T Cummings To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Message-ID: <199804021840_MC2-38CE-2B27@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"orNgkC.A.Yu.sOCJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4839 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 15:59:12 -0800 X-UIDL: 5c09bc3f1adf3c8f0932758f543a054a Jeff Schwartz wrote: >I've had this gizmo about a month and finally used it on a >gig, so I thought I'd report to y'all. >I am refering to the Boss SYB-3 Bass Synthesizer pedal. < You're right, that little pedal does pack a good amount of fun for the money. Three of my bandmates have one and they like to run things like hand-driven coffee grinder and drum machine outputs through it ... The contrabass player complains about the tracking being too slow, though. Rob From ???@??? Fri Apr 03 00:28:00 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 2 17:09:31 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKuyw-000301-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 17:09:22 -0800 Message-ID: <19980403010351.24127.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [204.74.108.99] From: "Joseph Buck" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: MIDI problems ??? (fwd) Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 17:03:50 PST Resent-Message-ID: <"XNFC9B.A.WUC.0WDJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4841 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 17:09:22 -0800 X-UIDL: 5bf81a5d2777d196cb8295c0a9548891 As an aside- what the hell is this? A Koan generative ripoff? B >Kim, thanks for that Microsoft pointer - I nearly fell out of my chair >laughing! > >From http://www.microsoft.com/directx/pavilion/future/dmusic.htm >(see the heading "Use Interactive Music to Add Life"): > > "Repetition is lifeless. Repetition is boring. Repetition is dismal. The > variable nature of DirectMusic provides you with welcome relief from > that short clip of music that loops over and over and over. In the same > way graphics typically follow the user's influence, you can create music > that parallels the action of the story with subtle changes of patterns, > textures, colors, harmonies, volume, and tempo." > >John > > >> Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 20:44:39 -0800 >> From: Kim Flint >> Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >> Subject: Re: MIDI problems ??? >> Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 20:50:57 -0800 >> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >> Resent-To: jrose@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu > >[SNIP] > >> and for kicks, microsoft's DirectMusic: >> http://www.microsoft.com/directx/pavilion/future/dmusic.htm >> >> >> kim >> ________________________________________________________ >> Kim Flint 408-752-9284 >> Mpact System Engineering kflint@chromatic.com >> Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com > > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Fri Apr 03 00:28:25 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 2 19:25:20 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.21] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKx6Q-0002RU-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 19:25:14 -0800 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKx6O-0002Yq-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 19:25:12 -0800 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKx6H-0002QM-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 19:25:05 -0800 Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 22:19:19 -0500 (EST) From: Adam Levin To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: The DAP Revolution Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"0d4AND.A.uuB.9VFJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4842 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 19:25:05 -0800 X-UIDL: 354be3a0f3522dd632d942e61c3bf6ae On the night of Saturday April 11th, The Dark Aether Project will venture forth from our home base in Baltimore, Maryland with our weapons of musical destruction in hand to conquer the southern New Jersey/Philadelphia area by might of Stick, Guitar and Drums. The Revolution will NOT be televised! ...but, if you tune to The Gagliarchives on WBZC 88.9 FM from 10pm-2am you can hear the waves of Dark Aether flowing forth from your radio. We will be playing live in the studio, chatting with host Tom Gagliardi and spinning some tunes, so if you are in the area, tune in! Also, If you're in the vicinity of Baltimore, Maryland on Thursday night, April 16th, come see us live with the heavy instrumental fusion of Uncle Gut at E.J. Bugs at 702 South Broadway Street. Showtime is 9pm. No cover! As always, we'll have our debut CD on sale at our low concert price of $10. If you can't make the show, you can purchase it via Wayside Music, Laser's Edge and ZNR mail order or in person from our good friend Chris Lamka at Of Sound Mind in Savage, Maryland. -Adam --- "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue, out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one becomes a Hearer." - Chandrakirti T h e D a r k A e t h e r P r o j e c t http://www.ari.net/prog/bands/dap/ From ???@??? Fri Apr 03 10:18:27 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 07:46:02 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yL8fH-0000PF-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 07:45:59 -0800 Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 00:41:42 -0600 From: John Pollock Subject: Re: MIDI problems ??? To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Message-id: <352484A6.1E44@delphi.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"iHTTbB.A.kFH.HMQJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4848 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 07:45:59 -0800 X-UIDL: 7259fc9e25afecd70d962430a595db10 andre wrote > and > > >, and Kim wrote > >, and it's all well worth reading, but I snipped it all to say: You're both absolutely right! MIDI _is_ a horrible protocol, and it _does_ let us do things that just aren't possible any other way. Andre: Shhhhhhhhh... please don't tell everyone how wonderful Casio MIDI guitars are. I only have three, and I'm not sure that's a lifetime supply. Let me find a couple more cheap before you go trumpeting the gospel and driving the price up, OK? ;-) Nah, it's just us: Might as well tell the _whole_ story: Casio killed production on it's CZ 101 synth-- and its sistren, the CZ-1000, -3000, -5000, and CZ-1-- _not_ due to poor sales, but because the company had built an incredible line of better mousetraps: --The VZ-1 keyboard, VZ-10M rackmount, and VZ-8M rackmount (optimized for MIDI guitar, digital horn, and specialized keyboard uses) synthesizers. Casio called the synthesis process "phase distortion," but make no mistake about it, kiddies-- this is FM better than Yamaha did it, renamed to avoid infringing Yamaha's license of the Chowning patents, but with eight "modules" to Yamaha's four or six "operators," and _eight-stage_ envelopes (a carryover from the CZ series-- yes!) when no one else offered more than five. --The FZ-1 keyboard, FZ-10M rackmount, and FZ-20M rackmount (with HD provision, though the specifics escape me) samplers. Sixteen-bit when the state of the art in the price class was twelve-bit, and with a limited but powerful 48-partial _additive synthesis_ capability built in (a feature elsewhere available in the under $10,000 range only in the Kawaii K5 and K5m, which lacked sampling capability). --The MG-500 and MG-510 MIDI guitars, and PG-300, -310, and -380 MIDI guitars with built-in preset synthesizers. The first (and until this year, _only_) MIDI guitars with the pitch to MIDI converter built into the instrument-- no need for a separate rack or floor unit, or an expensive and hard to find multiconductor cable. Also, the guitars themselves are outstanding even without the MIDI and synth features. --The DH-100 Digital Horn. I know little about this unit, except that it was a hell of a lot less expensive than the Akai and Yamaha units. So, Casio built better mousetraps... and the world beat a path to the doors of Sam Ash, and that store in suburban Milwaukee whose name escapes me at the moment, and a few other retailers who sold these better mousetraps at 40% of list price or less, after Casio discontinued them. See, we've looped back to the JamMan/Vortex marketing thread of last year... are you delighted? My take on the Casio pro-instrument marketing failure is: What marketing? In the three years from introduction to official discontinuation of the product line, I, a religious reader of _Guitar Player_ in those days, saw exactly _two_ ads for the MIDI guitars, featuring their _only_ high-profile endorser: [Are they ready for this? Naw, it's too gruesome... I'll hate myself in the morning... but I'll do it:] Stanley Jordan. I can't prove this, but I strongly suspect Casio was a victim of its own huge success in the home keyboard/toy instrument market. Confronted with instruments bearing the Casio name but professional-instrument prices, I'm guessing most potential customers just didn't take them seriously-- and Casio apparently didn't perceive a need to overcome this misperception until it was too late, if then. Sure, I want something better than MIDI. To be very specific, I want a guitar-pitch-to-MIDI's-vastly-superior-successor converter which will (a) replace the trem block in a Strat-type guitar, or fit inside an acoustic or semi-hollowbody, with no drilling; (b) contain its own internal power, good for 15 years; (c) incorporate an EMI/RFI-proof wireless system, including a similarly-sized and powered receiver; (d) be downwardly compatible with MIDI; (e) retail for $250.00 MSRP. Meantime, I've still barely scratched the surface of the possibilites of the CZ-101 I bought more than ten years ago... let alone the possibilites of the MG-510 (or PG-380) with VZ-8M and MIDI pedal keyboard with second VZ-8M which constitute my main rig. Yet those scratches have vastly enriched my life, taking me to places (geographical as well as musical) I could never have gone otherwise. Yes, MIDI's been good to me. :-) John Troubador Tech (http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock/) From ???@??? Fri Apr 03 10:17:46 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 05:09:02 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yL6DL-0003r4-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 05:08:59 -0800 Message-Id: Subject: selling jamman and other toys: no loop Date: Fri, 3 Apr 98 08:07:20 -0000 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Phil Diem To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"Y5O5rB.A.aUD.N7NJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4844 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 05:08:59 -0800 X-UIDL: 8903fa5b7f2a84316096426dd0a83bbe selling the following loop related toys: jamman asi sustainiac guitar digitech ips 33b pitch shifter/harmonizer fostex 8 channel 4 buss mixer anyone interested can email me privately pdiem@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu sorry for the commercial interuption, we now resume our regular programming... pj From ???@??? Fri Apr 03 10:18:03 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 06:17:59 1998 Received: from falcon (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.27] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yL7Hy-0000Ip-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 06:17:50 -0800 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yL7Hx-0000Ld-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 06:17:49 -0800 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yL7Hh-0000Gp-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 06:17:33 -0800 From: ANET Message-ID: <8a2e2a67.3524ee61@aol.com> Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 09:12:46 EST To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: selling jamman and other toys: no loop Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Resent-Message-ID: <"cK7AZ.A.aIH.e6OJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4845 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 06:17:33 -0800 X-UIDL: 2d9269d0d47cb425b31ba23775165617 Phil, I'll buy the jamman, how much and where do I send the money. From ???@??? Fri Apr 03 10:18:22 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 07:36:13 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.21] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yL8Vo-00073l-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 07:36:12 -0800 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yL7Ue-0000uU-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 06:30:56 -0800 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yL7UZ-0001Od-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 06:30:51 -0800 From: ANET Message-ID: <1570ae54.3524f196@aol.com> Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 09:26:27 EST To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: selling jamman and other toys: no loop Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Resent-Message-ID: <"x9BHe.A.J9.YHPJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4846 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 06:30:51 -0800 X-UIDL: 00c9228eac88befc0c21a696e4724b34 Phil, give me a call 507-634-4486, I'll be home this morning. Tnx; Regards; John Peters 3rd CD Project Page From ???@??? Fri Apr 03 10:18:05 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 06:39:35 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yL7cz-0002Fz-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 06:39:33 -0800 Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 09:36:32 -0500 From: buzzard@world.std.com (Sean T Barrett) Message-Id: <199804031436.AA08967@world.std.com> To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: simulations, instruments, and music (very long) References: <199804021229.AA16762@world.std.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"h4L7bD.A.G1B.3PPJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4847 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 06:39:33 -0800 X-UIDL: 4533d477261b05c6ebe29b95d162270a Trevor wrote: >Sean, are you comfortable playing with a keyboard? Or do you like the feel >of how the guitar/midi thing controls it? Those rare times I have felt the >need to record a synth sound (usually I just stack a few delay pedals, >distortion, and an ebow) I just goofed around on a keyboard untill I could >play the part. Yeah, I'm a guitarist, but I've played keyboards on my recordings. (Heck, I've played keyboard solos. I've even played _better_ keyboard solos than guitar solos--however, at the time, I had to transpose the keyboard so I could solo in C :) >I read in an interview with Andy Summers where he slagged the whole midi >thing. He said something along the lines of 'If you want to sound like a >harmonica, learn to play a harmonica'. I think that might be a bit close >minded, but It has always been easier for me to learn how to play the real >thing than its emulations. > >I had a drum machine for about three years before I had regular access to a >drum kit- in six months, I was twice as good at the real thing than on the >machine (except for the timing thing- oops!). Well, "except for the timing thing" is kind of a crucial bit. After several years of drumming, I certainly couldn't come close to my drum machines ability to play 32-nd note fills at 144 bpm in a 13/8 song. Anyway, I'm not really sure how this connects to the complaint about MIDI not being expressive enough--I'm not sure if you're being pro- or con-. However, seeing as I'm a chromosomally-imperfect individual, when has that ever stopped me from replying? Let's see if I can tie this in with the "I'm all looped-out" thread. I'm gonna get a tiny bit philosophical here, but I promise it won't be too hoity-toity. Where to start? It's about _the music_. The point of the whole show, the point of the technology, whether pro- or con-, is to make music. No, no, wait, let me step back just a little further. It's not good enough to say it's for music. Music is not just some abstract remote entity. Music is simply a human endeavor, so the right place to look is at the underlying motivations of the humans involved in the process. At this point, I could say lots of high-fallutin' things about the nature and purpose of art, but let's sidestep this with the simple assertion, "people make music because they enjoy the act". I admit this may not always be true, but I hope it is generally true. One of the nice things about this view is it ignores the distinction between deeply artistic art and pop culture production--e.g. "literature vs. romance novels", "Music-with-a-capital-M vs. top-40 music". Well, if you buy into the above claim, we can wrap up the whole anti-/pro- technology thing right quick: "Do whatever makes you happy, man[*]." But I'm not ready to wrap it up, so just ignore that reply. ([*] please forgive the sexism of this 60's slang) Is music particularly distinctive from other forms of artistic endeavor? Probably not; or rather all of the non-verbal arts (music & visual art) are probably radically distinguishable from the others. Interestingly, though, music is still very different from visual art. For example, both music and books are basically linear; most visual art is not. Additionally, music is an "enforced" linear; the listener is forced to proceed apace, unlike books (although if you listen to spoken literature, this aspect of the experience will change). The most radical difference between the media used for music and those for other art forms lies in the very distinctiveness of the process of listening. (With this rambling assertion we begin our descent towards the actual content of this mail.) Can you imagine what it would be like to read a book if the letters were forced into your eyes no matter what you were looking at? If you could two books at once with no difficulty in seeing them (although presumably only being able to "focus" on one at a time)? (Really, really, we're descending towards the actual content... there's a cliff coming up right around this bend.) Music exploits one of our strangest sensory apparatuses. Our ears our wired up so that if two sounds occur at the same time, we can hear them both no problem. Add in a third and a fourth, and we are still fine. Compare this to visual art; while you can layer and blend between two images, the result is generally unparseable, and three or four makes it impossible. (There are alternative things you can do, using opaque splicing, not blending, but this is no longer very analogous, since it hides the overlapping portion, which prevents any analogy for this next bit [ooh, I'm foreshadowing].) Not only do we hear each of two sounds independently, we also hear them together, we hear them _harmonically_. Thus the nature of what music is stems rather strongly from the nature of what human hearing allows: a sequence of sounds over time, where value is derived from the choice of sequence (melody) and the overlapping of more than one sound at the same time (harmony). Note that for this definition I haven't distinguished between pitch and tone, both of which are important, although we normally use "melody" and "harmony" to refer to pitches not tones. Because the medium of "music" allows for layering (for multiple simultaneous sounds), it is natural to break apart the layers, and thus to think of most pieces of music as the "performance" of some number of instruments over a period of time. Now return to my original assertion about why people make music. Actually, ignore the assertion, just remember there's one or more artists behind the music. An artist wants to create music; in the end, music pops out. Let's define an "instrument" as a "thing which is used to achieve the above end". That is to say, forget the musical preconceptions about "instrument", and look at one of the core meanings: "a means whereby something is achieved, performed, or furthered" (from Webster on-line, http://www.m-w.com ). >From the point of view of a composer writing for an orchestra, the orchestra itself is a single vast multi-timbral instrument. Alternatively, it is a large collection of instruments. From the composer's point of view, her instruments are "performed" by the writing of the score, and what happens after that is somewhat outside her control. Of course, from the point of view of one of the orchestra musicians, things are very different (the details are left as an exercise for the reader). Similar results obtain for the members of a rock band performing pre-written music, although it gets a little hairier when they've written their own songs. Now, let's take the stereotypical person writing and recording music and playing all the instruments themselves. Their ability to play more than one instrument is mediated by some sort of multi-track recorder technology. If you think of the instrument as "everything between the performer's hands (mouth/feet/brainwaves) and the final product", then where a live guitarist's "instrument" is "guitar-cable-amp-FX-speaker", the above studio "composer"'s instrument might for example be "keyboard-FX/box-multitrack tape-mixdown FX". (And I'm not even factoring in 'warm consoles' and all that other stuff.) There's a slightly weird thing in the above--the performer, at the time of performance, only hears the first half of the chain, not hearing the effects of multitrack tape or the mixdown FX. Thus, many people typically pursue the goal of making their multitracks make as small a change to the sound as possible. On the other hand, the use of postprocessing (especially during the mix) is rather strange. Obviously one can view the person doing the mixdown as a performer; the _practicality_ of adding effects during mixdown is clear. Yet I have trouble picturing it being done to classical orchestral music (especially the widely recommended compress-the-whole-thing-as-a-unit trick). But, then again, remember that the classical orchestral _composer_ has to live with having somebody _conduct_ the music in the end; it's not as odd as it sounds. So what's my point? My point is that pretty much anything is a viable instrument. Whether it be a miked acoustic guitar, a direct bass guitar, an electric guitar through an amp and a speaker and a microphone and an analog mixing board and a piece of tape, or even a MIDI guitar controller controlling a synthesizer--they're all different unique sounding instruments, yet with remarkably similar "human interfaces". To return for the briefest moment to the first question asked above: the act of playing the keyboard, and the act of playing the guitar, are both radically different. The natural vocabularies you might find on either of them are quite different. Andy Summers' dissing of technology is certainly right in one sense--the best way to sound like a harmonica player is to be a harmonica player. But that's merely a diss at all "replicative synthesis technology". There's little specific about keyboard vs. MIDI guitar there. Why do people diss MIDI guitarists who play a string pad, but not keyboardists? A keyboard controls nothing like a real string section. And it controls nothing like a xylophone either. Somebody who's grown up only hearing consonant harmony may find a tritone unacceptably jarring. Many of us, however, find a tritone to be a tasty and useful dissonance. Some of us even enjoy the distinctive sound of a tritone through a lot of distortion. As audiophiles (and I don't mean in the traditional sense), we've acculturated ourselves to a lot of things. And one of the things we're used to is the disctinctive vocabulary most instruments have. People have evolved ways to sound "good" on each instrument, and we know them quite well. But is this "good" really inherent, or simply acculturated? Musical equipment manufactures have gone to a fair amount of effort to create replicative synthesis sound sources-- because that's what they can sell. And when you play those from a controller without an ear towards the traditional vocabulary for the instrument it's supposedly replicating... it hardly sounds like that instrument. To which I say: so what? The new instrument is: MIDI guitar controller-MIDI cable-cheesy organ sound-multitrack Ideally, like all instruments, this one may have a particular vocabulary that will sound the best. And it won't necessarily be the same vocabulary that would be appropriate for a real cheesy organ, nor that which would be appropriate to a plain guitar. But what's _wrong_ with simply playing straight guitar vocabulary into this instrument? People don't complain much about the fact that the vocabulary doesn't change when a chorus pedal is added to an electric guitar "instrument". And everybody lives with unknown-at-performance-time post-processing. You can picture this scenario as being "I record an electric guitar, and at post processing we use the magic effect box that turns it into a cheesy organ sound". Now, _you_ may think it sounds bad. But the musician doesn't. At least, hopefully, the musician is _enjoying_ the process, and really, that's an important step. Whew... anyway, my point is that I see any and all technology as valid. All instruments are just an extension of expression for the performer. If somebody sits down and strums an open chord on a guitar with a piano patch _and finds a musical use for it_, or shreds like Yngwie through a xylophone patch _and finds a musical use for it_, great! And you know what? Unlike industry pundits, or Andy Summers or Robert Fripp, I bet there _are_ musical uses for those performances. I certainly agree with all those people that it makes sense to find the "natural vocabulary" for these new instruments, on one level; and yet I don't hear people saying this about keyboardists. Is this because keyboardists don't suffer from this syndrome? Or is it because the guitar vocabulary is so idiosyncratic? Wow, this has gone way too long. I wanted to turn this discussion back to looping, because the looper as an instrument (or really, the, say, guitar+looper+vortex+speaker as instrument) is quite interesting and different, since a looper inherently subsumes aspects of the multitrack. Remember how I said that since the human ear naturally allows multiple sounds to be heard at once, it makes sense to break down a given bit of music into several separate "instruments"... the looper is neat because of the way it interferes with this breakdown. But I guess I'll leave y'all to think about this issue yourselves. Sean From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:05:31 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 11:25:37 1998 Received: from falcon (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.27] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLC5i-0001rs-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 11:25:30 -0800 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLArV-0004DP-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 10:06:45 -0800 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLArJ-0000Hx-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 10:06:33 -0800 Message-ID: <35252385.7A3D@efn.org> Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 09:59:33 -0800 From: Peter Harlan Reply-To: pharlan@efn.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com CC: pharlan@efn.org Subject: Price sharing etiquette Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6gU61B.A.exG.COSJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4849 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 10:06:33 -0800 X-UIDL: 3eb9615a3f63a58375f9f69516e1df0a Hello Loopers ... Hello Loopers ... Please excuse me, but I feel like whining a bit. On Wednesday, somebody posted the following about the Echoplex DP: > Thanks for the various responses. I'm still waiting to find > out how soon a unit will be available (nobody seems to have > them in stock), and I found a pretty good price ($569.00 + > $95.00 - thanks Marshall) but I have one more question[...] Since I've been trying to find a good deal on an Echoplex, I was interested. So I sent an e-mail to the author of this message asking if he could please let me know where that deal can be had. The response? Nada. Not even a "Sorry, dude, can't tell you". So what's the point of the post? If you're not willing to share the information, this really amounts to gloating. After all, you can thank the individuals who tipped you off to the good deal by private e-mail. Anyway, I have two more questions: 1. Where can you get the Echoplex at the above price? 2. How does everybody feel about discussing prices of gear on the list? Does anybody have any ethical or pragmatic concerns about this? There, I feel better now. Send info, questions, flames to the list or to me personally. One thing I can promise you: if you send me an e-mail, no matter how rude your message, I'll reply to you. It's only simple courtesy. -Peter From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:05:42 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 12:44:55 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLDKT-0003OT-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 12:44:49 -0800 Sender: randy@cdac.com Message-ID: <352526C5.932B98A1@cdac.com> Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 10:13:25 -0800 From: Randy Reichenbach Organization: Cascade Design Automation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pharlan@efn.org CC: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Price sharing etiquette References: <35252385.7A3D@efn.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1aPSpB.A.uNC.ihUJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4852 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 12:44:49 -0800 X-UIDL: bae5bd3b95915b935593aa076456ca6b Peter Harlan wrote: > > Hello Loopers ... Hello Loopers ... > > Please excuse me, but I feel like whining a bit. On Wednesday, > somebody posted the following about the Echoplex DP: > > > Thanks for the various responses. I'm still waiting to find > > out how soon a unit will be available (nobody seems to have > > them in stock), and I found a pretty good price ($569.00 + > > $95.00 - thanks Marshall) but I have one more question[...] > > Since I've been trying to find a good deal on an Echoplex, I > was interested. So I sent an e-mail to the author of this > message asking if he could please let me know where that deal > can be had. The response? Nada. Not even a "Sorry, dude, can't > tell you". > > So what's the point of the post? If you're not willing to share > the information, this really amounts to gloating. After all, > you can thank the individuals who tipped you off to the good > deal by private e-mail. > > Anyway, I have two more questions: > 1. Where can you get the Echoplex at the above price? > 2. How does everybody feel about discussing prices of gear on > the list? Does anybody have any ethical or pragmatic concerns > about this? > > There, I feel better now. Send info, questions, flames to the > list or to me personally. One thing I can promise you: if you > send me an e-mail, no matter how rude your message, I'll reply > to you. It's only simple courtesy. > > -Peter Thanks for making that point Peter. Maybe I've just subscribed to rather helpful newgroups in the past, but this group does seem a bit on the helpful-only-if-I-can-toot-my-own-horn-in-the-process side. Last week I asked a simple question, "What is the going rate for a used JamMan?". I received not even ONE response. I would imagine that 80% of you have a good idea. Was my question too basic and "newbee" for all you pros? -- Peace ... =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ====== = Randy Reichenbach randy@cdac.com = // || \\ =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= || || || = Physical Design Engineer (VLSI-CAD) = || //\\ || = Cascade Design Automation = \\//__\\// = 3650 131st Ave SE, Suite 650 = `------' = Bellevue, Washington 98006 = = Tel: 425.643.0200 Fax: 425.649.7600 = ... Get some! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:05:38 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 12:34:19 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLDAE-000221-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 12:34:14 -0800 Message-ID: <352531D4.3E9C@efn.org> Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 11:00:36 -0800 From: Peter Harlan Reply-To: pharlan@efn.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com CC: pharlan@efn.org Subject: Re: Price sharing etiquette Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qK8-bD.A.R8.yWUJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4851 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 12:34:14 -0800 X-UIDL: 78e675316f93823c8c8e9d27bb3d07eb Okay, as soon as I get an Echoplex, I'm going to hook up a mic and record the following: "If I don't have something good to say, then I won't say anything." Apologies to the person I quoted earlier. I didn't mention a name, but if you save your messages you could figure out who that was. No, I still haven't received a response from him, but I should have given him the benefit of a doubt. There could be many reasons why he wasn't able to respond. And I have heard from someone else that did get a response from a similar inquiry. So, he is obviously somebody that will share his good fortune. I've also received some interesting private e-mails about peoples' different perspectives on sharing price info on the list. I would hope that we could discuss those things publicly. Thanks for constructive comments, public and private! -Peter From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:05:37 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 11:43:37 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.21] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLCN3-00047m-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 11:43:25 -0800 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLCMv-0001Tl-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 11:43:17 -0800 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLCMT-00042m-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 11:42:49 -0800 Sender: randy@cdac.com Message-ID: <352538F3.C3892BCC@cdac.com> Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 11:30:59 -0800 From: Randy Reichenbach Organization: Cascade Design Automation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Price sharing etiquette - NFI References: <35252385.7A3D@efn.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Fk0LUB.A.LfC.YkTJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4850 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 11:42:49 -0800 X-UIDL: b7f32295fd8246e70197f6e32fe36e99 Peter Harlan wrote: > I didn't intend my last message as a flame to the group. Just a statement in general about groups helping those with questions instead of the usual talking about ourselves which we musicians are much too notorious for doing. Sorry if I stepped on any toes. NFI (No flame intended). -- Peace ... =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ====== = Randy Reichenbach randy@cdac.com = // || \\ =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= || || || = Physical Design Engineer (VLSI-CAD) = || //\\ || = Cascade Design Automation = \\//__\\// = 3650 131st Ave SE, Suite 650 = `------' = Bellevue, Washington 98006 = = Tel: 425.643.0200 Fax: 425.649.7600 = ... Get some! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:05:45 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 13:04:15 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLDd9-0005gx-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 13:04:07 -0800 Message-Id: <199804032048.MAA16178@scv4.apple.com> Subject: Re: Price sharing etiquette Date: Fri, 3 Apr 98 14:49:48 -0500 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"xNznuD.A.fUE.-yUJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4854 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 13:04:07 -0800 X-UIDL: 5277d2325e8a5ddb0f9f52d157864dc0 > >Last week I asked a simple question, "What is the going rate for a used >JamMan?". I received not even ONE response. I would imagine that 80% >of you have a good idea. Was my question too basic and "newbee" for all >you pros? Between $250 and $600. The price varies wildly depending on whether its being sold via auction or just posted as "for sale", and whether it's the stock 8sec or blown 32sec version. I'd expect to pay around $350 for an 8sec unit. Travis Hartnett From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:06:05 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 18:00:05 1998 Received: from falcon (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.27] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLIFS-0001SN-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 17:59:58 -0800 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLIFQ-000436-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 17:59:56 -0800 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLIFC-0001QO-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 17:59:42 -0800 Message-ID: <35253E22.E8F8584A@nyfac.com> Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 20:53:06 +0100 From: tdbajus Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: simulations, instruments, and music (very long) References: <199804021229.AA16762@world.std.com> <199804031436.AA08967@world.std.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qTL4RD.A.nb.rIZJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4869 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 17:59:42 -0800 X-UIDL: d281e35f2e6dc2d51530c1ad8383a627 Sean- I don't have time for more than a prefunctory reply right now, but excellent post- Wish I could find band members who think the way you do. I get back, Trevor From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:05:44 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 13:01:12 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLDa9-0005I3-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 13:01:01 -0800 Message-ID: <215C1D5A0FFDD011B3CC00805FC18C292D67D4@ntsrv2.lexicon.com> From: "Hogan, Greg (Exchange)" To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Lexicon MPX100 Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 15:50:33 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"u7jH5B.A.uCE.gwUJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4853 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 13:01:01 -0800 X-UIDL: 2af7f23380a09ebe43e9f826df37c998 For those who need to know:MPX 100 Dual Channel Processor $249.00 The MPX 100 is a true stereo dual-channel processor with 24-bit internal processing, 20-bit A/D-D/A and S/PDIF digital output. Powered by a new version of Lexicon's proprietary Lexichip(tm), the MPX 100 has 240 presets with classic, true stereo reverb programs such as Ambience, Plate, Chamber and Inverse as well as Tremolo, Rotary, Chorus, Flange, Pitch, Detune, 5.7 second Delay and Echo. Dual-channel processing gives you two effects in a variety of configurations: Dual Mono, Dual Stereo, Cascade and Parallel. A front panel Adjust knob allows instant manipulation of each effect's critical parameters and an Effects Level/Balance knob lets you control effect level or the balance of dual effect combinations. An easy Learn mode allows MIDI patching of front panel controls. In addition, tempo-controlled modulation rates and delay times lock to Tap or MIDI clock, and Tap tempos can be controlled by audio input, the front panel tap button, dual footswitch, external MIDI controller or MIDI Program Change. Other features include dual 2-stage headroom indicators, a headphone output, a software-selectable MIDI OUT/THRU port, pushbutton of footswitch selection of dry or muted audio output, a 20Hz-20kHz +/-1dB Frequency Response and an A-D Dynamic Range >100dB typical. Other features of the MPX 100 - Easy to use Learn mode patches a MIDI Controller or Program Change to up to 5 front panel controls (Mix, Effects Level/Balance, Adjust, Bypass and Tap) - Analog outputs provide >95dB dynamic range - S/PDIF digital output provides simultaneous wet or dry 20 bit digital output with >100dB dynamic range @ 44.1kHz - High impedance input allows you to use a variety of instruments from guitar to keyboards - System mode provides access to system-wide settings and MIDI features: Assign front panel Bypass button as Input Mute or Bypass Enable or Disable Learned Patches Mute or Bypass during Program loads Wet or Dry Digital Output MIDI Out or THRU Enable or Disable MIDI Program change Enable or Disable incoming MIDI Clock Global or Program Specific Tempo MIDI Dumps for the current program, all 16 User Programs, or System mode settings Shipping in May! Best regards, Greg From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:05:46 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 13:11:35 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLDkD-0006ZN-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 13:11:25 -0800 Sender: randy@cdac.com Message-ID: <35254DE0.6AE8BFAD@cdac.com> Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 13:00:16 -0800 From: Randy Reichenbach Organization: Cascade Design Automation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Price sharing etiquette References: <199804032048.MAA16178@scv4.apple.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qRLXqC.A.X9E.J4UJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4855 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 13:11:25 -0800 X-UIDL: 9b021b2ac81b01fcbe36f76ca44a7495 T.W. Hartnett wrote: > > > > >Last week I asked a simple question, "What is the going rate for a used > >JamMan?". I received not even ONE response. I would imagine that 80% > >of you have a good idea. Was my question too basic and "newbee" for all > >you pros? > > Between $250 and $600. The price varies wildly depending on whether its > being sold via auction or just posted as "for sale", and whether it's the > stock 8sec or blown 32sec version. I'd expect to pay around $350 for an > 8sec unit. > > Travis Hartnett Thanks Travis! -- Peace ... =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ====== = Randy Reichenbach randy@cdac.com = // || \\ =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= || || || = Physical Design Engineer (VLSI-CAD) = || //\\ || = Cascade Design Automation = \\//__\\// = 3650 131st Ave SE, Suite 650 = `------' = Bellevue, Washington 98006 = = Tel: 425.643.0200 Fax: 425.649.7600 = ... Get some! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:05:51 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 14:06:58 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLEbv-0005No-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 14:06:55 -0800 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <352531D4.3E9C@efn.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 14:03:23 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: Price sharing etiquette Resent-Message-ID: <"JQIacC.A.AlE.AyVJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4858 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 14:06:55 -0800 X-UIDL: 2506919ae7743748cb62926e68a0f1ac OK...here' my 2 cents: It appears to me that sharing price information (or any non-proprietary information, for that matter) can only benefit us all. The only ones who don't benefit are the retailers who are overcharging for their products, and I have no problem if they lose business. It has always bothered me the way the music equipment industry (at least the Guitar Center type businesses) do not give their best price initially. They start with list price and force you to negotiate your way down. Many times they will only give you the "best price" if you quote prices from other retailers. This business approach probably works for a lot of unsuspecting consumers, who don't know any better and think that any price below list price is a good one. We, as consumers, must demand more from retailers! In this spirit, I try to avoid Guitar Center (etc.) and give my business to establishments like Sweetwater Sound (etc.) that don't bullshit you. Exchanging price information on a list like this is a great way to keep these places in check. - chris >Okay, as soon as I get an Echoplex, I'm going to hook up >a mic and record the following: "If I don't have something >good to say, then I won't say anything." > >Apologies to the person I quoted earlier. I didn't mention >a name, but if you save your messages you could figure out >who that was. No, I still haven't received a response from >him, but I should have given him the benefit of a doubt. >There could be many reasons why he wasn't able to respond. >And I have heard from someone else that did get a response >from a similar inquiry. So, he is obviously somebody that >will share his good fortune. > >I've also received some interesting private e-mails about >peoples' different perspectives on sharing price info on >the list. I would hope that we could discuss those things >publicly. > >Thanks for constructive comments, public and private! > >-Peter From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:05:54 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 14:52:45 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLFKA-0003Du-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 14:52:38 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980403212906.00c8536c@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 13:29:06 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Price sharing etiquette Resent-Message-ID: <"O1iIT.A.vEC.RZWJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4861 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 14:52:38 -0800 X-UIDL: e705658a00fbf70c1cabc1b9fbed1582 At 11:00 AM 4/3/98 -0800, Peter Harlan wrote: >Okay, as soon as I get an Echoplex, I'm going to hook up >a mic and record the following: "If I don't have something >good to say, then I won't say anything." You shouldn't feel like you can't point out problems, whereever you find them. They don't get better otherwise. At the same time I think it's useful to be careful of the tone one imparts in such things. On the internet, it is quite easy for someone to cause a lot more damage than they might realize or intend. When your actual goal is to make something better, you sometimes need to step back and consider whether the thing you are about to post to the universe really does that, or whether it actually just makes you feel better by beating on someone else. As some of you may have noticed, my own impulsive nature gets me into trouble along these lines on a regular basis. I also get to be on the receiving end of the same sort of thing fairly often, so I've had the unfun experience of repairing damage caused by someone who didn't realize how much they were causing. So I get to think about this sort of thing a lot. :-) >Apologies to the person I quoted earlier. I didn't mention >a name, but if you save your messages you could figure out >who that was. No, I still haven't received a response from >him, but I should have given him the benefit of a doubt. >There could be many reasons why he wasn't able to respond. >And I have heard from someone else that did get a response >from a similar inquiry. So, he is obviously somebody that >will share his good fortune. As someone who receives large volumes of mail each day, and who is regularly unable to reply to it all in a timely fashion, I'd say yeah, give 'em a break. I think most people do try to help if they can. Sometimes it takes me days or weeks to reply to someone, so sorry in advance I do this to you. >I've also received some interesting private e-mails about >peoples' different perspectives on sharing price info on >the list. I would hope that we could discuss those things >publicly. Seems to me that would be a valuable discussion. I'd like to hear people's opinions on sharing price info. (publicly, that is.) I didn't even realize there was any controversy on that. understanding is a good thing.... kim ________________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 Mpact System Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:05:49 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 13:46:26 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLEI2-00031e-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 13:46:22 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980403213936.00d2074c@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 13:39:36 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Price sharing etiquette Resent-Message-ID: <"XnXcjC.A.yHC.wcVJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4857 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 13:46:22 -0800 X-UIDL: 93a0c929feb71550d9b68dc5fc860b6a At 10:13 AM 4/3/98 -0800, Randy Reichenbach wrote: >Thanks for making that point Peter. Maybe I've just subscribed >to rather helpful newgroups in the past, but this group does seem a bit >on the helpful-only-if-I-can-toot-my-own-horn-in-the-process side. > >Last week I asked a simple question, "What is the going rate for a used >JamMan?". I received not even ONE response. I would imagine that 80% >of you have a good idea. Was my question too basic and "newbee" for all >you pros? I'd like to think this is a helpful list, that is the point of it. Mostly it seems that it is, but if there are ways to make it better please suggest them! It's not a particularly huge list (several hundred people), so sometimes you might post something that doesn't happen to catch anybody right and doesn't spark up any replies. It happens to me all the time here, and elsewhere as well. It doesn't mean people are dissing you (although it's easy to think that sometimes). Just be patient and try again. kim ________________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 Mpact System Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:05:57 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 15:28:38 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLFsr-0007gv-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 15:28:29 -0800 Message-Id: <199804032258.OAA24012@scv2.apple.com> Subject: Secret Price Information Date: Fri, 3 Apr 98 16:59:24 -0500 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"5GPe_B.A.EzF.52WJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4863 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 15:28:29 -0800 X-UIDL: b19e2f6898d3521657bac8172b0e58bd I'd suspect that the reason that one fellow wouldn't tell you his source is that he was afraid you'd cut in and buy it before he could move on it. Echoplexes and JamMen are so hard to find, I can understand someone not wanting to provide their source for a known scarce quantity. I've been tracking all the e-posts I've been able to find on used Vortex and JamMen, and it's a seller's market right now, due to the growing hipness and fixed supply of these weird little boxes. Travis Hartnett From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:06:01 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 16:35:38 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLGvk-00009D-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 16:35:32 -0800 X-Sender: doug@mail.lightlink.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980403225410.0b1fd756@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> References: <215C1D5A0FFDD011B3CC00805FC18C292D67D4@ntsrv2.lexicon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 17:05:52 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Doug Wyatt Subject: RE: Lexicon MPX100 Resent-Message-ID: <"CuivG.A.EiG.i5XJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4866 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 16:35:32 -0800 X-UIDL: 88992a4499f741af2dc46ef4ebe251e9 Michael wrote: > I've asked this before.... 5.7 secs .... tap tempo ..... so DOES IT LOOP? > If not, WHY NOT??? And can it be expanded beyond 5.7s? And if you set up > a loop on the 5.7 sec delay and change programs, will the loop carry over? > Surely you remembered that. Even Zoom remembered _that_.... > > (not to appear ungrateful or anything) Thanks for asking exactly what I wanted to ask :) The price is certainly right. (I had no idea RAM had gotten so cheap -- I just upgraded my S-760 to 32 megs for $54 ... now I have an extra 8 meg SIMM that must be worth far less than the $300 (?) I paid for it three years ago. If anyone has any use for it, I'll sell it for $2, which is about what it will cost to mail it.) Doug --- Doug Wyatt doug@sonosphere.com Sonosphere (music and music software) http://www.sonosphere.com/ my new CD, "Accidental Beauties": http://www.sonosphere.com/wyatt/ From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:05:58 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 15:33:04 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLFxC-0000Qp-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 15:32:58 -0800 Message-ID: <022001bd5f4d$8f7d0e60$35f2ffd0@default> From: "future perfect" To: Subject: Re: Price sharing etiquette Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 17:12:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"yUQfo.A.3ZG.s7WJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4864 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 15:32:58 -0800 X-UIDL: 55873e73612cf5485fa01000cdeef148 I'd be happy to share any price info I get with the whole list- it helps us all know if a retailer (or private citizen) is grossly over (or maybe under?) charging. Dave Eichenberger ********************************************************************* 'Future Perfect' - art music - visit our website at: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/8082 From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:06:07 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 18:36:26 1998 Received: from falcon (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.27] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLIoj-0005bD-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 18:36:25 -0800 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLIok-0006I3-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 18:36:26 -0800 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLHM6-00035h-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 17:02:46 -0800 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <35256393.B22C3AF9@mailbox.syr.edu> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 15:20:10 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: Price sharing etiquette Resent-Message-ID: <"RONSP.A.jlC.YYYJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4867 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 17:02:46 -0800 X-UIDL: d91ad9dd6b34c440a7ff256b384434f6 I wrote: > >As someone that used to word in a retail music store, I'd have to say that you >couldn't be more wrong. Do you have any idea what the markup on a piece of >musical equipment is? How about less than 20%. In a high compatition >situation, it is usually as little as 10 or 5%. Where they get you is for >excessories and sheet music. Anyway, next time you mail order something >cheap, just think about the day that there wont be a local music store to go >and check stuff out in. What was I wrong about? That sharing price information can only benefit us all or that sharing price information will not benefit retailers who are overcharging? I am not claiming that mail order is better than local retailers.....surely, I'd be willing to spend a little more for a product at a local store for the convenience of demoing the unit, having one-on-one customer service, having the ease of returning the unit, etc.... But how can I know HOW MUCH more I am spending, if I don't know what a good price is? What I was talking about is wakling into a store and being given a price and not knowing if that is a good price or not. In my experience, some establishments (like Guitar Center) will almost assuredly NOT give you their best price immediately. You must haggle, and unless you have price comparisons, they probably will not give you their best price. My guess (and maybe you can confirm this) is that these salespeople are getting paid commision based on the price...that is, the better the price they give you, the less they get themselves... As far as I can see, the only way to deal with this type of business approach is to: a) Only deal with people who are up front and give you THEIR best price, right off the bat. b) Go to Guitar Center, prepared with knowledge about the product's "reasonable" price, cause you ain't gonna find out from them (easily) what is reasonable and what is not. So, again, my point here is: Sharing price information on a list like this makes it easier for us to implement both these options. Knowing the "best price"of a product allows me to determine if a particular retailer is being fair or not. That is my point, plain & simple. If you choose not to share price info with the list, I respect your decision. I can only hope that enough people WILL choose to share information, to make this list (& this capitalistic system) more beneficial to me. Inspired by the Invisible Hand, Chris From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:05:53 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 14:28:17 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLEwJ-0000F9-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 14:27:59 -0800 Message-ID: <35256393.B22C3AF9@mailbox.syr.edu> Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 17:32:51 -0500 From: mark sottilaro Reply-To: msottila@mailbox.syr.edu Organization: metaliminal X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Price sharing etiquette X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lw1brD.A.PiG.oBWJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4860 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 14:27:59 -0800 X-UIDL: 18ba987f673c0617a3b37385358f1605 Hey, You said: From kflint Fri Apr 3 15:13:23 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLFe8-0005nZ-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 15:13:16 -0800 Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 18:02:37 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199804032302.SAA16392@mcfeely.concentric.net> X-Sender: hideo@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Tom Lambrecht Subject: Re: Price sharing etiquette Resent-Message-ID: <"Odxo3C.A.5QE.gqWJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4862 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 15:13:16 -0800 X-UIDL: c9155d71d31c5309783ba07fc19a06c9 At 01:39 PM 4/3/98 -0800, you wrote: >At 10:13 AM 4/3/98 -0800, Randy Reichenbach wrote: > >>Thanks for making that point Peter. Maybe I've just subscribed >>to rather helpful newgroups in the past, but this group does seem a bit >>on the helpful-only-if-I-can-toot-my-own-horn-in-the-process side. >> >>Last week I asked a simple question, "What is the going rate for a used >>JamMan?". I received not even ONE response. I would imagine that 80% >>of you have a good idea. Was my question too basic and "newbee" for all >>you pros? > >I'd like to think this is a helpful list, that is the point of it. Mostly it >seems that it is, but if there are ways to make it better please suggest them! > >It's not a particularly huge list (several hundred people), so sometimes you >might post something that doesn't happen to catch anybody right and doesn't >spark up any replies. It happens to me all the time here, and elsewhere as >well. It doesn't mean people are dissing you (although it's easy to think >that sometimes). Just be patient and try again. > >kim >________________________________________________________ >Kim Flint 408-752-9284 >Mpact System Engineering kflint@chromatic.com >Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com > > > > Randy: if 'tis any consolation, the list ignores MOST of what I post (hmmmm...so do the other lists I subscribe to . . . boy, there's a lot of miscreants out there ;) . . . I paid about $325 with shipping for mine and another $20 or so to expand the memory to 32 seconds--I wouldn't spend more, especially with DOD's rack mount Dimension looper supposedly due to debut with a street price of $230 or so with 24 clicks of total looping time and especially now that Echoplexi are due to make a reasonably priced appearance--I hope alot of these bottom-feeding East Coast "vintage" gear dealers wind up eating their shorts on Jammies Tom Tom Lambrecht hideo@concentric.net From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:06:02 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 17:14:08 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLHX0-0004Kz-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 17:14:02 -0800 Message-Id: <199804040105.RAA09496@scv2.apple.com> Subject: RE: Lexicon MPX100 Date: Fri, 3 Apr 98 19:06:43 -0500 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"0cnon.A.E4D.6jYJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4868 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 17:14:02 -0800 X-UIDL: 41383b46ccc4c4cdaeec5bd8183918f7 >For those who need to know:MPX 100 Dual Channel Processor $249.00 Is this supposed to be $1249.00? That thing has a lot of features... Travis Hartnett From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:06:00 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 16:23:25 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLGju-0006TU-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 16:23:18 -0800 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199804040010.QAA17710@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: Simulations and labor saving devices (was: Re: MIDI problems ??? To: nyfac2@nyfac.com Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 16:10:13 -0800 (PST) Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <35235E80.36226C0B@nyfac.com> from "tdbajus" at Apr 2, 98 10:46:40 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"nHCpz.A.XnE.AqXJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4865 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 16:23:18 -0800 X-UIDL: fdc3857fc1749335dfa58e919224d011 > When I was an indentured servant at Sam Ass, Vernon Reid (name dropping!) > came in and tried this new guitar midi converter out with me. It uses > (used?) some kind of fuzzy logic sort of thing, and was supposed to be really > fast. This was back in my Coleman/Coltrane days, with big wide intervals, > tritones, and (for me) lots o' speed. [For those of you who are concerned, I > sought professional help, and I am feeling much better now]. > > Anyway, the damn thing sputtered and hiccupped, and generally made a mess of > things. Funny thing was, Vernon (far better faster cooler- although much, > much shorter than me) had the think working pretty well. I could never > figure it out. In general, pitch-to-MIDI converters for guitar strongly favor players who pick every note... and pick each note cleanly. Players who like to slur a lot generally have more trouble with these devices. Cheers, Paolo Valladolid --------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ---------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:06:06 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 18:08:38 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLINm-0002WW-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 18:08:34 -0800 Message-ID: <35257B1E.C86EB308@jps.net> Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 16:13:18 -0800 From: Roland Eberle X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re:Guitar Center Pricing References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xtSC7B.A.cYB.jQZJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4870 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 18:08:34 -0800 X-UIDL: e5d737405bda297603ba1d8ecbe01afc Another dos centavos Chris Chovit wrote: > OK...here' my 2 cents: > > We, as consumers, must demand more from retailers! In this spirit, I > try to avoid Guitar Center (etc.) and give my business to establishments > like Sweetwater Sound (etc.) that don't bullshit you. Exchanging price > information on a list like this is a great way to keep these places in > check. > I have to disagree...I have bought tons and tons of gear...and time and again Guitar Center matches or (usually) beats the competition...most of the gear is tagged with a current sale price...almost always 25% off list or more...frequently as high as 50% ALL guitar Center merchandise is tagged with bar code showing MSRP and NO GC salesperson has ever tried to charge me full price for anything...perhaps there are regional differences...I shop at the 4 Bay Area stores and I beleive they automatically assume they are dealing with savvy shoppers who went to the trouble to travel to their store to get a bargain. Now...the mom and pop stores are cool in a home town way and very convenient for picks,mags , lessons etc...but THEY are the ones who are most likely to ask List price (or MORE) for any given piece of gear. PLUS...try using it for 30 days and decide you dont want it...return to the mom/pop and try to get a full (or ANY) refund. Guitar Center absolutly RULES for that reason alone...I have employed that return policy on many occsions with no questions asked or hassles...and truth be told...that is the reason I shop there so frequently. Yes, Musicians Freind and AMS and other mail order outfits do a GREAT job and also offer extended length return priveledges (MF for example is 45 days...which is great)...but to be able to walk in to a store...walk out with the gear..knowing you can mess with it for a month and still bring it back...all at rock bottom pricing...is quite amazing in this retail age. No...I don't work for GC...and actually hate going in the place because of the ambient noise...but hey..a deals a deal...and I havent found anyone who can beat them consistenly. From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:06:08 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 19:03:55 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.21] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLJFG-0000Qz-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 19:03:50 -0800 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLJFG-0007a2-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 19:03:50 -0800 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLJF8-0000Pm-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 19:03:42 -0800 Message-ID: <35258DF1.7ECD@efn.org> Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 17:33:37 -0800 From: Peter Harlan Reply-To: pharlan@efn.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com CC: msottila@mailbox.syr.edu, pharlan@efn.org Subject: Re: Price sharing etiquette References: <35256393.B22C3AF9@mailbox.syr.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pdQ4_D.A.qKH.zHaJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4871 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 19:03:42 -0800 X-UIDL: ff0394e76639ed1300f110442a6d0ab6 Mark, I won't say you are mistaken about things you have direct experience with--perhaps some retail outlets are given preferential deals by the suppliers. I don't know. What I *do* know is that I have been told by other folks who've worked in retail music stores that they only pay about 50% to 60% of list for things. That would leave a lot of room for dealing. And, if you really look around, you can sometimes find deals that indicate the markups must be substantial. For example, the Roland GR-30 lists for $895 (without the GK-2A pickup). zZounds and Synthony are selling this for $599 and $600, respectively. Even deeper discounts can be found on the GK-2A, though I don't have the figures anymore because I'm not looking for one now. But do the math. Now, you could argue that these stores are maybe just employing a "loss-leader" tactic to get more of your business, but I think that would be kind of absurd. Just because a store gives me a good deal on one item, I'm not going to turn around and buy something else from them for hundreds more than I can get it someplace else. You could also argue that these stores are just closing out items they haven't been able to sell. Sometimes that's true, and then you can get an exceptional deal. But, I don't think the market for GR-30's has dried up yet. As for supporting my local music store...well I have two answers for that: (1) Musician's Friend is my local music store. One of 'em anyway. And I can get a good deal there. But usually I have to first find a good price somewhere else, then they'll match it. That works for me, and they don't complain either. (2) The other music stores around my town either (a) aren't dealers for the gear I'm looking for, (b) don't know anything about what I'm looking for, (c) have ripped me off in the past, (d) have treated me with disrespect, or (e) knowingly sell stolen property. When at all possible, I prefer to do business with capable, smart, polite, interested and honest people. If that is not possible, I look out for numero uno. Period. This is not to say that the Musician's Friend folks aren't capable, smart, etc. Actually, most of them seem to be. Anyway, that's the end of this rant. Later, Peter From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:06:10 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 19:39:23 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLJnc-0003j5-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 19:39:20 -0800 From: ANET Message-ID: <18c19634.3525aa1e@aol.com> Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 22:33:48 EST To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Lexicon MPX100 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Resent-Message-ID: <"N6uBoB.A.ACD.9paJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4872 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 19:39:20 -0800 X-UIDL: 5c770243fa00c15f0d3bcfee80dae749 In a message dated 98-04-03 15:58:39 EST, you write: > Date: 98-04-03 15:58:39 EST > From: ghogan@lexicon.com (Hogan, Greg (Exchange)) > Reply-to: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com ('Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com') > > For those who need to know:MPX 100 Dual Channel Processor $249.00 > Hey Greg; I am interested in this product, thanks for the post. Just one question, when will Lexicon drop production on it? Regards; John Peters From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:06:14 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 21:07:37 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLLB0-0002II-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 21:07:34 -0800 From: TritoneDW Message-ID: <4a53adb3.3525ae00@aol.com> Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 22:50:22 EST To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Price sharing etiquette Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 56 Resent-Message-ID: <"LKbavB.A.VxB.48bJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4873 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 21:07:34 -0800 X-UIDL: 3ed08cf4a7d81327ead06fe97cff0af1 In a message dated 98-04-03 15:43:07 EST, you write: << Thanks for making that point Peter. Maybe I've just subscribed to rather helpful newgroups in the past, but this group does seem a bit on the helpful-only-if-I-can-toot-my-own-horn-in-the-process side. Last week I asked a simple question, "What is the going rate for a used JamMan?". I received not even ONE response. I would imagine that 80% of you have a good idea. Was my question too basic and "newbee" for all you pros? -- >> I can't speak for everyone else, but I often don't respond to these questions because I don't see them. This list generates a LOT of mail, as you know. Generally, I only have time to skim the posts, and maybe read one or two if I'm lucky. I certainly don't care about tooting my horn, and I don't really get the impression that too many other people here care about that either--I could be wrong. I think we've got a great thing going here, and I would certainly like to help other people if I can. Perhaps those of us who have tons of time to read each post in detail should up their commitment to public service :-). As a practical point, there's a lot of info for those just getting involved in this stuff on the LD website. Check it out. Drew W. From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:06:15 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 22:20:24 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.21] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLMJT-000712-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 22:20:23 -0800 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLLEz-0004zZ-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 21:11:41 -0800 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLLEj-0002ag-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 21:11:25 -0800 From: TritoneDW Message-ID: Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 22:59:02 EST To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Guitar Center Pricing Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 56 Resent-Message-ID: <"K94MzD.A.o3B.s9bJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4874 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 21:11:25 -0800 X-UIDL: 51b90f1efd181bfa8cd031fb63ef11c7 Hey all, I've noticed something interesting about Guitar Center--how much it sucks (or does't suck) really depends which town you're in. For example, I will never give one damn cent to the, uh, "people"at the Hollywood or San Francisco GCs, but when I lived in St. Paul, I thought the Roseville GC was great--good prices, no bullshit. It would be great to compile a ratings list for GCs nationwide. Drew W. From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:06:17 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 23:20:01 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLNF9-0002Rh-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 23:19:59 -0800 Message-Id: <199804040504.AAA14831@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: Dumb question Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 00:03:57 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"oj8QfB.A.uFC.X6dJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4875 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 23:19:59 -0800 X-UIDL: 9281f1cfeb7a0af6fdb770aee41a7624 i have a vortex, but really haven't lifted the hood much. 2 questions: - is the 'loop' portion some of you refer to the 'deja vu' patch, set for max time??? -is there a way to do a 'hold' as you loop like this (or other patch entirely) :laugh, then let me know. thanx andre' From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:05:52 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 14:17:34 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLEm9-0006jM-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 14:17:29 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980403223517.0b1f28b6@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> X-Sender: pycraft@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 22:35:17 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: "Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D." Subject: Re: Price sharing etiquette In-Reply-To: <352526C5.932B98A1@cdac.com> References: <35252385.7A3D@efn.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"K7JOFB.A.QZF.s4VJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4859 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 14:17:29 -0800 X-UIDL: a79dc4a527cf5f54489a3dc9dd2fb563 Randy wailed: >Last week I asked a simple question, "What is the going rate for a used >JamMan?". I received not even ONE response. I would imagine that 80% >of you have a good idea. Was my question too basic and "newbee" for all >you pros? Woah there! I'll come clean to say I can't help, purely because I'm in foreign climes (and you'll find the cheapest JM in the states, no doubt). I think that second to that, no-one really knows. It ranks as a great unanswerable questions, along with "is there a God?", "How many roads must a man walk down?" and "How much is a used Vortex?" As far as I can tell, prices range between $200 and $400 - yes, really that much. Extra memory confuses the situation more. I think it's a case of go forth, my boy, and haggle. One question - > ====== > // || \\ > || || || > || //\\ || > \\//__\\// > `------' why does your sigfile feature a pair of underpants? ;) Michael From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:05:47 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 13:18:48 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLDrJ-0007Uf-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 13:18:45 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980403225410.0b1fd756@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> X-Sender: pycraft@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 22:54:10 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: "Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D." Subject: RE: Lexicon MPX100 In-Reply-To: <215C1D5A0FFDD011B3CC00805FC18C292D67D4@ntsrv2.lexicon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"bEPrXB.A.RIG.rBVJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4856 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 13:18:45 -0800 X-UIDL: c3a183d288998a8d9b86d654ca3f5738 Greg said - at length - >For those who need to know:MPX 100 Dual Channel Processor $249.00 (snip) > programs such as Ambience, >Plate, Chamber and Inverse as well as Tremolo, Rotary, Chorus, Flange, >Pitch, Detune, 5.7 second Delay and Echo. Dual-channel processing gives >you two effects in a variety of configurations: Dual Mono, Dual Stereo, >Cascade and Parallel. (snip) > In addition, >tempo-controlled modulation rates and delay times lock to Tap or MIDI >clock, and Tap tempos can be controlled by audio input, the front panel >tap button, dual footswitch, external MIDI controller or MIDI Program >Change. I've asked this before.... 5.7 secs .... tap tempo ..... so DOES IT LOOP? If not, WHY NOT??? And can it be expanded beyond 5.7s? And if you set up a loop on the 5.7 sec delay and change programs, will the loop carry over? Surely you remembered that. Even Zoom remembered _that_.... (not to appear ungrateful or anything) Michael From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 16:05:53 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 4 09:23:08 1998 Received: from falcon (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.27] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLWep-0002XV-00; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 09:23:07 -0800 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLVh5-0000pU-00; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 08:21:23 -0800 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLVgz-0006yX-00; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 08:21:17 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 09:40:28 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: Sharing etiquette w/$$$ attached Resent-Message-ID: <"klOeYC.A.rSG.i1lJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4877 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 08:21:17 -0800 X-UIDL: b3d520a31a2624ed53a1c5f72130e1ed >In a message dated 98-04-03 15:43:07 EST, you write: > > > Last week I asked a simple question, "What is the going rate for a used > JamMan?". I received not even ONE response. I would imagine that 80% > of you have a good idea. Was my question too basic and "newbee" for all > you pros? > I've been on this list for a couple of years now and seldom post. Most of this is due tro an extremely busy life. I always enjoy the thoughful posts by the likes of Kim, Sean B, Andre, but I tend to MEAN to add something and.... Anyhow to your query which I never even read, I recently bought a jam man with 32 seconds for $350. Two months ago I sold one with 8 seconds for $500. So there's some trivia for ya. Many times I have to do a wholesale trashing of posts, due to lack of time. Patrick *** *** ** Fingerpaint http://www.his.com/~patrick/FNGP.html *** ** From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 16:05:35 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 4 01:45:31 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLPVx-0000hD-00; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 01:45:29 -0800 Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 03:29:35 -0600 From: John Pollock Subject: Re: Guitar Center Pricing To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Message-id: <3525FD7F.78A4@delphi.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: Resent-Message-ID: <"-RmIiB.A._b.0CgJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4876 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 01:45:29 -0800 X-UIDL: 2c934598d1e8dc3ddb4d72dd49b97a5a TritoneDW wrote: > > Hey all, > > I've noticed something interesting about Guitar Center--how much it sucks (or > does't suck) really depends which town you're in. For example, I will never > give one damn cent to the, uh, "people"at the Hollywood or San Francisco GCs, > but when I lived in St. Paul, I thought the Roseville GC was great--good > prices, no bullshit. It would be great to compile a ratings list for GCs > nationwide. I think it probably depends on the individual employees you're dealing with, more than the store. I was in the GC near my home yesterday for the first time in a year or so, to buy a harmonica. The accessories sales droid found the one I wanted, took my credit card, then proceeded to answer the phone. He spent a full ten minutes trying to diagnose someone's equipment problem-- _without_ processing my order or handing my sale off to someone else (and I was one of only 3 or 4 customers in the entire store). Meanwhile, I'm wrestling my not-quite-three year old son, who desperately wants to play "that purple guitar over there, daddy" (an Ernie Ball Van Halen model with a $2700 price tag). Needless to say, I was steamed. I eventually got the harp, the sales droid got an earful from me, and so did the manager. But I've had very positive experiences on almost every previous visit to the store, so I won't hold this one against the store or GC in general. John Troubador Tech (http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock/) From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 16:05:51 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 4 08:42:31 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLW1V-0000R4-00; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 08:42:29 -0800 Message-ID: <3526437F.44E5E278@bellsouth.net> Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 09:28:15 -0500 From: Jeff Duke Reply-To: jmar@bellsouth.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: LD site Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pfcRI.A.qJ.VJmJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4878 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 08:42:29 -0800 X-UIDL: 0ab6eb574ec3e55cb692cf61b547db31 Is it just me or is the site access down? Jeff From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 16:05:58 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 4 11:10:57 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.21] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLYLA-0000ZR-00; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 11:10:56 -0800 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLYL9-0006R2-00; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 11:10:55 -0800 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLYL7-0000Z7-00; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 11:10:53 -0800 X-From_:administrator_at_AMSINC@mail.amsinc.com Sat Apr 04 11:10:47 1998 Received: from falcon (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.27] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLYKz-0000XN-00; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 11:10:45 -0800 Received: from (relay4.UU.NET) [192.48.96.14] by falcon.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLYKy-0006Qk-00; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 11:10:44 -0800 Received: from ams.amsinc.com by relay4.UU.NET with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: ams.amsinc.com [162.70.244.20]) id QQejro22654; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 14:10:40 -0500 (EST) From: administrator_at_AMSINC@mail.amsinc.com Received: from mail.amsinc.com (mail-1.amsinc.com) by ams.amsinc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05375; Sat, 4 Apr 98 14:13:35 EST Received: from ccMail by mail.amsinc.com (SMTPLINK V2.11.01) id AA891728478; Sat, 04 Apr 98 14:03:30 EST Old-Date: Sat, 04 Apr 98 14:03:30 EST Encoding: 14 Text, 22 Text Message-Id: <9803048917.AA891728478@mail.amsinc.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Message not deliverable X-Diagnostic: Mail to Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com bounced 3 times X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Envelope-To: Loopers-Delight Sender: SmartList Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 11:10:53 -0800 X-UIDL: 5fc0dd726446849971a9d1728856ad0c >Message was resent -- Original recipients were: To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com-------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------- Thanks for the various responses. I'm still waiting to find out how soon a unit will be available (nobody seems to have them in stock), and I found a pretty good price ($569.00 + $95.00 - thanks Marshall) but I have one more question: I plan to add the memory myself; a cursory look thru MacWarehouse turns up 80ns 4MB 30-pin standard SIMMS going for 49.95; assuming these are the right ones, the upgrade should cost me around $150.00. Seems a little high. Anyone? -Lance Glover aka Wafflehead (cheapness in Santa Monica) Received: from falcon.slip.net by mail.amsinc.com (SMTPLINK V2.11.01) ; Wed, 01 Apr 98 16:24:22 EST Return-Path: Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKUpE-00045j-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 13:13:36 -0800 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKUp2-0007Ne-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 13:13:24 -0800 Message-ID: <35229CCE.498F@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 13:10:34 -0700 From: baumhaus@earthlink.net Reply-To: baumhaus@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; PPC) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Echoperplexed No More (Oberheim Echoplex Purchase) Resent-Message-ID: <"z8H_NB.A.SiG.g1qI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4814 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: Edward_Chang@mail.amsinc.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 13:13:24 -0800 From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 16:05:59 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 4 12:30:15 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLZZq-00059p-00; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 12:30:10 -0800 Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 14:16:59 -0600 From: John Pollock Subject: Re: LD site To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Message-id: <3526953B.5B54@delphi.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <3526437F.44E5E278@bellsouth.net> Resent-Message-ID: <"jKo8CC.A.9lE.7epJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4879 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 12:30:10 -0800 X-UIDL: 92f50eaae1384694c52025c91f4b8aea Jeff Duke wrote: > > Is it just me or is the site access down? I've also been unable to connect to the LD site, and I've been trying for about 12 hours. John Troubador Tech (http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock/) From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 16:06:08 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 4 15:53:28 1998 Received: from falcon (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.27] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLckZ-0000ad-00; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 15:53:27 -0800 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLaTb-00031n-00; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 13:27:47 -0800 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLaTX-0000gs-00; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 13:27:43 -0800 Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 15:26:24 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199804042126.PAA00987@servidor.unam.mx> X-Authentication-Warning: servidor.unam.mx: [132.248.10.153] didn't use HELO protocol X-Sender: smaug@servidor.unam.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: smaug@servidor.unam.mx Subject: Re: LD site Resent-Message-ID: <"MfqKKD.A.rZ.6UqJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4880 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 13:27:43 -0800 X-UIDL: 98aa5c15238513a796b6436356f2bb88 At 02:16 PM 4/04/98 -0600, you wrote: >Jeff Duke wrote: >> >> Is it just me or is the site access down? > >I've also been unable to connect to the LD site, and I've been trying >for about 12 hours. > Yep,the site is down... smaug. From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 16:06:07 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 4 15:48:51 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLcg0-0000EF-00; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 15:48:44 -0800 Message-ID: <3526C839.6120@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 15:54:34 -0800 From: Andre LaFosse Reply-To: altruist@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: LD site References: <199804042126.PAA00987@servidor.unam.mx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"OeZKUC.A.SUH.MZsJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4881 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 15:48:44 -0800 X-UIDL: f9e352b52516cfa3641b41caec68a2b1 smaug@servidor.unam.mx wrote: > > At 02:16 PM 4/04/98 -0600, you wrote: > >Jeff Duke wrote: > >> > >> Is it just me or is the site access down? > > > >I've also been unable to connect to the LD site, and I've been trying > >for about 12 hours. > > > Yep,the site is down... Use the non-domain name address: http://www.slip.net/~kflint/loop/loop.html It works for me... From ???@??? Sun Apr 05 03:26:09 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 4 18:32:29 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLfER-0000qS-00; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 18:32:27 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3526C839.6120@earthlink.net> References: <199804042126.PAA00987@servidor.unam.mx> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 16:16:09 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: LD site Resent-Message-ID: <"1Bt7rD.A.Ub.ByuJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4882 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 18:32:27 -0800 X-UIDL: 22f6b75ea96264752eb0b791a12ae55b At 3:54 PM -0800 4/4/98, Andre LaFosse wrote: >smaug@servidor.unam.mx wrote: >> >> At 02:16 PM 4/04/98 -0600, you wrote: >> >Jeff Duke wrote: >> >> >> >> Is it just me or is the site access down? >> > >> >I've also been unable to connect to the LD site, and I've been trying >> >for about 12 hours. >> > >> Yep,the site is down... > >Use the non-domain name address: > >http://www.slip.net/~kflint/loop/loop.html > >It works for me... Sorry, my provider has once again fucked up my domain name. Thanks for providing the direct URL, Andre. That should mostly work, except for the cgi based profiles section of the site. I think this is the final straw for me and slip.net, so I'll soon be figuring out how to transfer everything to another provider. Hopefully I can manage that transparently...I won't switch it until I'm sure of that. thanks for your patience, kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Apr 05 03:26:10 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 4 18:42:50 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLfOS-0001p0-00; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 18:42:48 -0800 Message-ID: <3526DE94.100E@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 18:38:41 -0700 From: baumhaus@earthlink.net Reply-To: baumhaus@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Price Sharing Etiquette Re: Price sharing etiquette Re: Price sharing etiquette Re: Price sharing etiquette Re: Price sharing etiquette Re: Price sharing etiquette Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2Z2vWB.A.5QB.A7uJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4884 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 18:42:48 -0800 X-UIDL: 919636572fb0ff8929a8b1e454ae532e G'day List: I must confess I'm a little in the dark, as somehow (my own fault to be sure) I got unsubscribed from the list as of last Thursday OR the servers been down? Anyway, it seems my few posts regarding prices on an Echoplex have stirred things up a bit. I didn't mean to step on anyone's toes for posting an actual price from an actual retailer without also stating their name - in my experience, folks who want to find out where to buy something won't be shy about sending a private email (it hasn't ever stopped me!); it was perhaps subliminal that I didn't post the name of the store (Kenosha Music, 414.697.9393) partly because I didn't have the unit in hand - I got several interested private emails, to whom I gave out the name willingly. Just a few thoughts on price and service, etc. When I spoke to Tom Merit @ Kenosha to finally place the order (it should arrive in soggy Southern California around the 23rd of this month), he told me that he had already received three calls, because of me "putting it on the internet" to which I felt slightly chagrined, not knowing if this was a good thing for him or not; I would assume it's a good thing, but there was this tone in his voice, like, "Oh shit, now I'm gonna be getting exponentially greater numbers of orders which I can't fill on an item that I probably priced too low..." Anyway, I've never been in sales, so I'm just projecting here. I hope most of us realize that the best price on a piece of gear isn't always the best deal. I first started looking locally, at the music store I've done about 75% of my business with (when you have as meager a studio as I do, that doesn't amount to much). Unfortunately, they'd heard of the unit but never sold one, put me on perma-hold while they looked it up (this due to the aforementioned meager studio cash outlay) and so I quickly decided that it wasn't gonna be them this time. But I do see a real value in buying gear from a local outfit where one can establish a relationship. It just pays off down the line in more ways than need be elaborated upon here. Anyway, enough of this. I'll check in once I have Echoplex in hand. ciao -Lance From ???@??? Sun Apr 05 03:26:10 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 4 18:40:17 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLfLz-0001VU-00; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 18:40:15 -0800 Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 21:37:21 -0500 From: buzzard@world.std.com (Sean T Barrett) Message-Id: <199804050237.AA05669@world.std.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: LD site References: <199804042126.PAA00987@servidor.unam.mx> Resent-Message-ID: <"L1vfNC.A.oGB.i5uJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4883 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 18:40:15 -0800 X-UIDL: b7907a535e671b9cd32a7e85c8c68a1e >thanks for your patience, Our patience?! You provide us a wonderful free service, you bum! There's no excuse for impatience on our part. Three cheers for kim in his time of adversity! Sean From ???@??? Sun Apr 05 03:26:12 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 4 18:51:46 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLfX5-0002Y3-00; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 18:51:43 -0800 From: PJBMHB Message-ID: <8e14d70f.3526f0f5@aol.com> Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 21:48:19 EST To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: new dod delay pedals Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Resent-Message-ID: <"If8NOB.A.kLC.5EvJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4885 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 18:51:43 -0800 X-UIDL: 13a82dd8fc89eb64bfedcc7848c916eb has anyone tried one of the new dod delay pedals yet? how do these puppies sound? i used to have a digitech rack delay that could do some fun things....speed up, slow down, munchkins to monsters! can these pedals do the same thing? =-) PJ From ???@??? Sun Apr 05 03:26:16 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 5 00:26:12 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLkkk-0000eV-00; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 00:26:10 -0800 Message-ID: <352731B8.6C39@fredmarshall.com> Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 00:24:43 -0700 From: Fred Marshall Reply-To: fred@fredmarshall.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Sharing etiquette w/$$$ attached References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"X4OK0B.A.CZ.W-zJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4886 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 00:26:10 -0800 X-UIDL: 1bd22ce034e9b9549edecb032fe842c2 > >In a message dated 98-04-03 15:43:07 EST, someone wrote: ================= > > Last week I asked a simple question, "What is the going rate for a used > > JamMan?". I received not even ONE response. I would imagine that 80% > > of you have a good idea. Was my question too basic and "newbee" for all > > you pros? ================= - Do you call room service and have them dial "information" for you, rather than using the phone book? - and when (if) they do, how much do you tip them? mmmmm From ???@??? Sun Apr 05 10:37:51 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 5 05:40:32 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLoit-0007NW-00; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 05:40:31 -0700 Message-ID: <014c01bd608f$20970580$d43d2499@default> From: "Pete Gilbert" To: "Loopers Delight" Subject: jamman for sale Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 08:34:05 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"KFjpR.A.7vG.Ft3J1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4887 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 05:40:31 -0700 X-UIDL: 76f3a785966d6d285fe370ec882223f2 My buddy, Wes, has a Jamman for sale. The unit has expanded memory (32 seconds). Wes does not have net access, but you may contact him at 248 299 0146. -------- PeteGilbert@msn.com Visit the Michigan Stick Trio Web pages at: http://www.edict.com/mst/ From ???@??? Sun Apr 05 10:37:57 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 5 08:47:02 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.21] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLrdN-0005Ew-00; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 08:47:01 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLqd5-0007XJ-00; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 07:42:39 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLqd3-0002wz-00; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 07:42:37 -0700 Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 10:40:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199804051440.KAA13926@newman.concentric.net> X-Sender: hideo@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Tom Lambrecht Subject: Re: new dod delay pedals Resent-Message-ID: <"MTmcVC.A.2jC.Wf5J1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4888 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 07:42:37 -0700 X-UIDL: 5732370960796ea4d79639579c0a9b11 At 09:48 PM 4/4/98 EST, you wrote: >has anyone tried one of the new dod delay pedals yet? how do these puppies >sound? i used to have a digitech rack delay that could do some fun >things....speed up, slow down, munchkins to monsters! can these pedals do the >same thing? =-) PJ > > > I assume the new 8sec pedal will be the same as the 4sec (FX 94) in that it can do all that AND play reverse loops . . . I don't htink the 8sec is actually available yet . . . EXCEPT the pedals don't have the LFO to really add the final dimension of warpage to the sound like the Digitech time machines and how about that DOD Dimension Delay (24 secs total loop in 4-6sec. banks in a rack mount for $225 in Veneman's catalog (but only on the printed page--it apparently is not shipping yet). . . any one hear any word on when this guy is available? Tom Tom Lambrecht hideo@concentric.net From ???@??? Sun Apr 05 10:38:00 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 5 09:02:59 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLrsn-00060L-00; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 09:02:57 -0700 Message-ID: <01BD6071.2B57FEC0.lahatch@dnai.com> From: Laurie Hatch To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: Re: LD site and pass the hat... Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 08:59:02 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"92ohaB.A.wZF.cq6J1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4889 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 09:02:57 -0700 X-UIDL: 1e5f8985090b9026685f3e838a9cef83 >From: Sean T Barrett [SMTP:buzzard@world.std.com] >Sent: Saturday, April 04, 1998 6:37 PM > >> Kim: >>thanks for your patience, > >Our patience?! You provide us a wonderful >free service, you bum! There's no excuse >for impatience on our part. > >Three cheers for kim in his time of adversity! > >Sean Ya know, it's gonna be a while before the LD cd royalties start flowing. whadduya say, those of us who haven't already done so: let's roll some green Kim's way, give him at least some monetary help with this ISP mess. laurie >From lists@slip.net Sun Apr 05 09:07:34 1998 From ???@??? Sun Apr 05 10:38:01 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 5 09:07:34 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLrxE-0006UH-00; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 09:07:32 -0700 From: PJBMHB Message-ID: <18c404dc.3527ab70@aol.com> Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 12:03:58 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Send me money too...while you are at it!! =-) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Resent-Message-ID: <"KLomQB.A.C2F.wu6J1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4890 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 09:07:32 -0700 X-UIDL: 1c4ec608c8b11ce74cb783af7734704e Please send me money too. I am poor and need more equipment! =-) PJ From ???@??? Mon Apr 06 01:12:38 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 5 21:40:56 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yM3iI-0007Kw-00; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 21:40:54 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 22:00:28 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: Loop Show Page Resent-Message-ID: <"5MryE.A.lXG.HvFK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4895 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 21:40:54 -0700 X-UIDL: 0a940ad33d5306dde15d3ec7fa6af719 Just another little plug about the Loop Show in DC on April 18th. There's a site at: http://www.fingerpaint.net/Loop.html Three members of this list will be performing. Myslef with my partner as FingerPaint, Paul Militsch with Jody Janetta, and Siobahn CAnty and... You must chek out site of one of Siobahn musicians Eric "Doc" Smith. He's made an instrument called the Drumstick. There's a very cool photo at his site which is linked to the Loop Show Site. If this performance is successful, we will be able to set up more Loop Shows. So I urge all of the DC locals to attend this show. Patrick *** *** ** Fingerpaint http://www.his.com/~patrick/FNGP.html *** ** From ???@??? Mon Apr 06 01:12:48 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 6 00:06:01 1998 Received: from falcon (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.27] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yM5yh-0006tR-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 00:05:59 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLzUX-0002xc-00; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 17:10:25 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLzUS-00068a-00; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 17:10:20 -0700 Message-ID: <35281CCF.5B0F@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 19:07:43 -0500 From: Mike Artemenko X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NC320 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Jamman VS. Plex References: <3526437F.44E5E278@bellsouth.net> <3526953B.5B54@delphi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xTQaTD.A.UhF.UzBK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4891 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 17:10:20 -0700 X-UIDL: 11c053cea61594de62976f5b23614e0a Hi all, Is there anything that the Jamman can do that the Echoplex can't? Thanks for any insight. Mike From ???@??? Mon Apr 06 01:12:34 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 5 19:53:54 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yM22j-0000Li-00; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 19:53:53 -0700 From: JJavid Message-ID: <1577ad2a.352842c8@aol.com> Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 22:49:42 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: New DOD pedal? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.7 for Mac sub 3 Resent-Message-ID: <"3HPD8B.A.2TH.MMEK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4892 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 19:53:53 -0700 X-UIDL: b97226f7178d94d1b8edc8fc1f927209 Hello Loopers, Has anyone tried the new 8 second DOD pedal yet? I'm not currently on the list, so if you could E-mail me at JJavid@aol.com, I would appreciate it. David Hoping to be a Echo-plex owner in a few months :) From ???@??? Mon Apr 06 01:12:37 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 5 21:02:56 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yM37X-0004aR-00; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 21:02:55 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19980406025741.0097be58@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: gls@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 21:57:41 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Grover Sheffield Subject: Re: LD site and pass the hat... Resent-Message-ID: <"gRUF.A.NCE.NNFK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4893 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 21:02:55 -0700 X-UIDL: e1ee12a33ed13ac9169ede326215dd77 Okay. It's worth some $ to me. Address?? > >Ya know, it's gonna be a while before the LD cd royalties start flowing. > whadduya say, those of us who haven't already done so: let's roll some green >Kim's way, give him at least some monetary help with this ISP mess. > >laurie > > > From ???@??? Mon Apr 06 01:12:38 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 5 21:38:08 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yM3fZ-0006zM-00; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 21:38:05 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19980405223453.0069b84c@mail.txdirect.net> X-Sender: zom@mail.txdirect.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 22:34:53 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: zom Subject: web rings? In-Reply-To: <18c404dc.3527ab70@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"oD0ngC.A.XLG.etFK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4894 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 21:38:05 -0700 X-UIDL: 791dc31f9586631f568550fbfa4446d5 Anyone know of loop-based or ambient web rings? VERY curious....seen some good things in Ring-land, and some really lame ones, like the Hanson web ring.... anyway....adding new RA experiments to the page tonight, addy below; http://www.txdirect.net/users/zom/ DIY electronic music, Zineage, and more: http://www.txdirect.net/users/zom/ From ???@??? Mon Apr 06 09:36:18 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 6 01:30:39 1998 Received: from falcon (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.27] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yM7Ib-0002sZ-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 01:30:37 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yM7IY-0004lZ-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 01:30:34 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yM7IX-0002s8-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 01:30:33 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 01:27:33 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: new echoplex faq version Resent-Message-ID: <"uOCg8D.A.geC.aIJK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4896 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 01:30:33 -0700 X-UIDL: f6ee911aca9b03b5d1723ea20db16d3b Hi, I just updated the echoplex FAQ on the website a bit, for those interested. Of course, my domain name is busted at the moment, but when it's fixed you can see it here: http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tools/echoplex/FAQ.html the alternative url, which works now is: http://www.slip.net/~kflint/loop/tools/echoplex/FAQ.html I've got a big pile of question/answers to add to the FAQ still, so hopefully it will be seeing more updates soon. Since people are actually able to buy echoplexes again, I'm hoping to preempt all the inevitable new user questions before they get to me.....:-) kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Mon Apr 06 11:07:07 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 6 09:47:42 1998 Received: from falcon (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.27] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMF3b-0002dp-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 09:47:39 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMF3Z-0007mg-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 09:47:37 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMF3R-0002cc-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 09:47:29 -0700 Message-ID: <3528B09F.ED638302@nyfac.com> Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 11:38:23 +0100 From: tdbajus Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: simulations, etc, long and winding ramble, part #1 References: <199804021229.AA16762@world.std.com> <199804031436.AA08967@world.std.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"--ebJC.A.oFB.5SQK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4902 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 09:47:29 -0700 X-UIDL: 8d27c30a6224799644d2e99479d43fbb > >I had a drum machine for about three years before I had regular access to a > >drum kit- in six months, I was twice as good at the real thing than on the > >machine (except for the timing thing- oops!). > > Well, "except for the timing thing" is kind of a crucial bit. > After several years of drumming, I certainly couldn't come close > to my drum machines ability to play 32-nd note fills at 144 bpm > in a 13/8 song. I'm not sure I could understand 32nd note fills at 144bpm in 13/8. : ) > Anyway, I'm not really sure how this connects to the complaint > about MIDI not being expressive enough--I'm not sure > if you're being pro- or con-. I not really pro or anti midi. I just know that (with the notable exception of controller data) I have had little or no success in getting to work for me. Lots of other people do, and I even like some of it. I just can't. I have a cello, which sounds like a harp seal pup being beaten when I play it, and I know damn well I love a well played cello. > Where to start? It's about _the music_. You know, it's funny, but everyone says this, but no one seems to believe it. It's like when people answer a band flier you have up. (this conversation, to the best of my ability to reconstruct it, is real) 'So, what did you like about the flier?' you ask. 'I just thought, you know, I uh, felt like we could, you know, have a connection... And I really like Neil Young a lot.' 'Know any of the other bands? Slint? Sonic Youth? Ornette Coleman?' 'Uh, no.' 'So, what kind of stuff are you into?' 'Oh, all kinds.' You finally find out that all kinds of music means Bon Jovi (the band) and Jon Bon Jovi (the solo artist). For those of you who never experienced this, I envy you. We play all kinds of music here: Country, and western. But you are right. It IS about the music. It's just who's version of the music that is the question. It's a good one, I haven't got a clue. > Is music particularly distinctive from other forms > of artistic endeavor? Probably not; or rather all > of the non-verbal arts (music & visual art) are > probably radically distinguishable from the others. > Interestingly, though, music is still very different from > visual art. For example, both music and books are > basically linear; most visual art is not. Additionally, > music is an "enforced" linear; the listener is > forced to proceed apace, unlike books (although if > you listen to spoken literature, this aspect of the > experience will change). Ever listen to one of your favorite books on audiotape? I used to sneer at them, until I was trapped in a car and forced to listen to one. The experience is unbelievable. I read very, very, very fast. I can finish a 350 page Robert Parker novel in about three hours. (Sartre take a while longer, but what can you do. I've been reading Nausea for about three years....) It reminds me of that guy in Idoru (W. Gibson, pretty good book) who has attention deficit disorder, but because of some drug trails he took as a kid, he is able to become pathological focused on very limited types of information for long periods of time. So, I forget the book, 'Sexus', maybe, but hearing it aloud opens up a world of nuance that I ordinarily miss in my usual literary sack and pillage. Pacing is amazing. The whole linear/non-linear experience thing has had me thinking about something other than guitar and female companionship lately. (I must be getting old and slowing down.) I'm not really sure what I'm thinking, but, when I do, I'll let you know. But the veiwing of a painting is not entirely non-linear: the eye is, more likely than not, guided purposly across the painting, to very specific points. Also, one can only view so much detail at a time- examining a painting up close is a very different experience that veiwing from a few steps back. Step back further and the experience is changed again. You have to select what you are going to experience, while filtering out other possible experiences. Likewise, music is not entirely linear either. There is melody, counter melody, rhythm, bass lines, lyrical content (on those rare occasions that there is any) are all experienced simultaineously: I have a hard time experiencing more than a few of these things at once, but you can toggle between verying locusses at any time. From ???@??? Mon Apr 06 09:36:47 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 6 08:41:01 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yME13-0002MA-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 08:40:57 -0700 Message-ID: <3528E589.9F33FF5A@vtx.ch> Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 16:24:09 +0200 From: Claude Voit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight Subject: Newborn looper in Switzerland Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vZAGe.A.GpB.2ZPK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4898 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 08:40:57 -0700 X-UIDL: 38a33c8509a70dda787bc19c36013ccc Dear everyone After waiting 1 1/2 year I finally received my looping tools today after a no problem delivery: 2 beautiful white twins As down Thomas was sometimes ago as high I am now (^"^) (I can feel that sarcastic smile from you older shamans) just wanted to say that you helped me a lot during the wait with your funny vocabulary "do you pitch the patch in switchquant with your DAW when feeling trapped in nextloop mood or what ?" Had 1 1/2 year to study the about every thing published on plexes but I don't remember this fun trick I just found (I can feel that sarcastic smile..etc...) I run two plexes in brother sync and in sync with the computer plex 1 is master plex 2 is slave normally the master commands the slave (which is...normal) if you begin to overdub with plex 2 manually on the front panel the next press of overdub (on the plex footswitch) will toggle the overdub function between plex 1 and 2 meaning at each press, you input new material to the left then to the right creating sort of question response phrases the last overdub in this state must be ended on front panel of plex 2 Again thanks to Kim, Mathias, Oberheim/Gibson, Rick at Bananas, and you all out there Girls and bOYS A bientot Claude -- Please correct the reply address by deleting this "----" Veuillez corriger mon adresse pour me rŽpondre en effaant a "----" From ???@??? Mon Apr 06 09:36:52 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 6 09:00:30 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMEJr-0004uB-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 09:00:23 -0700 Message-ID: <215C1D5A0FFDD011B3CC00805FC18C292D67DB@ntsrv2.lexicon.com> From: "Hogan, Greg (Exchange)" To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Lexicon MPX100 Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:50:21 -0400 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"uB3dDC.A.6jD.KpPK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4900 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 09:00:23 -0700 X-UIDL: 2b6863225e69dde20c4d21f27b823463 About the MPX 100 Michael Hughes(of the many Michaels) wrote:I've asked this before.... 5.7 secs .... tap tempo ..... so DOES IT LOOP? > If not, WHY NOT??? And can it be expanded beyond 5.7s? And if you > set up a loop on the 5.7 sec delay and change programs, will the loop > carry over?" > Yes, Michael, you can loop the 5.7 seconds. The memory is not expandable and there is no loop spillover available. Travis asked: "Is this supposed to be $1249.00?" No, Travis, US$249.00 is the correct price. and then John asked:"when will Lexicon drop production on it?" Well, John, if our experience with JAMMAN and Vortex are any indication, we will stop producing the MPX 100 when we have a warehouse full of product that is not moving! As this box will include reverb, all indications are that this will not be a problem as Lexicon has never had any trouble selling any product that contains reverb! Thank you all for your interest and best regards, Greg Hogan Lexicon Customer Service Phone +781-280-0372 FAX +781-280-0499 From ???@??? Mon Apr 06 09:36:51 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 6 08:55:15 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.21] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMEEo-0004AJ-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 08:55:10 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMEEn-00050n-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 08:55:09 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMEEb-00048E-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 08:54:57 -0700 Message-ID: <3528FA1F.8FF4D045@intcpi.com> Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 11:51:59 -0400 From: jprice@intcpi.com (John Price) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pharlan@efn.org CC: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, msottila@mailbox.syr.edu Subject: Re: Price sharing etiquette References: <35256393.B22C3AF9@mailbox.syr.edu> <35258DF1.7ECD@efn.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sC1KHB.A.GDD.ZlPK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4899 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 08:54:57 -0700 X-UIDL: 73b547f41f20ebabd166411eeffcf4fd I got my gr-30 new/ w/ a gk-2a for $650 from 8th street music in Dwntwn Philly just 4 weeks ago. Since we are in the mood for sharing secret price info: Call 215.923.5040. Ask for a guy named Andre- he's their pro audio guy & he knows his shit and will ultimately hook you up with the phattest equip on the planet whether youre a looper or a shredder or a raver. Good Deals can be had especially if you are patient, thorough & knowledgeable about what the prices are for the dealer ( I use the 150-200 buck markup as a win-win point on price relevant to a Brand New mid - high ticket item aka. something that is generally priced over the $500 but under $950 mark, ie. a gr-30 or a mc505, ya know ). If you can find a Local/Family run Mid to small sized retail place that is willing to work with you and see that you will be a consistent customer for the long haul, you'll find Music Stores are often more than willing to cut their margins if they see they will make it up in volume from you. A good price also depends on the product and demand. And never be afraid of considering used. Just be extra cautious and thorough if buying used. It often helps to only buy used from a location that is close in proximity to you with a very decent and long standing reputation. Somethin that is a niche product that is say very top shelf in quality and price like a gr-30 usually sits and sits forever in someones inventory unless the region or reputation of the Store is one that caters to folks that make extensive use of such products. Also, when you see something you like think about it ( not forever ) but think and shop around and get quotes in writing. I'm never ashamed of playing one vendor off the other though w/the relationship I have with 8th. Street, I rarely have to do that. No one has beat 8th street prices on anything as of late. Peter Harlan wrote: > And, if you really look around, you can sometimes find deals that > indicate the markups must be substantial. For example, the Roland > GR-30 lists for $895 (without the GK-2A pickup). zZounds and Synthony > are selling this for $599 and $600, respectively. Even deeper > discounts can be found on the GK-2A, though I don't have the figures > anymore because I'm not looking for one now. But do the math. > From ???@??? Mon Apr 06 11:07:05 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 6 09:40:48 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.21] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMEwv-0001fm-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 09:40:45 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMEwu-0007Ij-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 09:40:44 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMEwk-0001eA-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 09:40:34 -0700 From: ANET Message-ID: <702d7157.35290366@aol.com> Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:31:31 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: 3rd CD Project Update Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Resent-Message-ID: <"kFry1D.A.0g.oOQK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4901 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 09:40:34 -0700 X-UIDL: 72e271af3c65949a1da17ac53e828eef Greetings to all; The 3rd CD project has been receiving quite a number of submissions to date. Some of the entries are superb and quite frankly, some need to be remixed. Within the next week or so, everyone will be receiving a note commenting on your submission. The purpose of the note will be to encourage you first, and secondly to provide an honest critique of the submission. I will be posting some new information concerning acceptable and unacceptable submissions at the site. The project is not filtering submissions based on content, but rather quality. If the overall quality of each submission does not meet the quality of the others, then we have some problems which reflect negatively on the entire project. The project highly encourages quality factors such as low noise, good levels throughout the recording, good EQ etc. The project also highly encourages the elimination of glaring and or obivous mistakes. Some of the submissions included clicking loops and loops which were obiously punched in at the wrong time (which makes for a very obvious cadence problem everytime the loop recycles), as well as wrong notes being played (I don't think there were any attempts at actual disharmony, a study in and of itself). Some of the material can be cut out or edited here; however, it really is your production and the submission is yours. So, with that, keep in mind that the submission you make will be locked onto the CD forever. It is also a reflection of this site and other musicians on the CD. As such you owe the project and the site some quality work. The 3rd project will not compromise the quality factors as we want it to stand on its own. With this said, the project is extending the deadline for another month, and is still open for submissions as some may not make the CD. It would be nice to receive some material that included vocals. Regards; John Peters 3rd CD Project Page From ???@??? Mon Apr 06 11:07:14 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 6 10:12:11 1998 Received: from falcon (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.27] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMFRI-0005jx-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 10:12:08 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMFRJ-0001ej-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 10:12:09 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMFRA-0005j4-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 10:12:00 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980406120213.00994440@mail.purity.com> X-Sender: tcweller@mail.purity.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 12:02:13 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Travis Weller Subject: multiple concurrent loops Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"byhhVB.A.GtE.kuQK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4903 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 10:12:00 -0700 X-UIDL: 088c3ea5775109bd506d407bc0683001 Hello, I would like to playback multiple seperate loops concurrently with an EDP. One application for this would be using one loop as a foundation with feedback at 100% while repeatedly overdubbing on a second loop at the same time with it's feedback set lower. This would cause the second loop to gradually change shape while the foundation (loop 1) remains consistant. Another possibility would be running many loops of varying lengths at the same time. Depending on how you set it up, they would go in and out of phase with eachother creating polyrhythmic relationships. Something like this: (where "|" is the end of the loop and "-" is loop data) |----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----| |-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-| |-----------|-----------|-----------|-----------|-----------| My question: Is this possible with a single Echoplex? Thanks, Travis. From ???@??? Tue Apr 07 01:20:32 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 6 11:24:38 1998 Received: from falcon (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.27] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMGZP-0006vT-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:24:35 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMGZ7-0005jU-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:24:17 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMGZ0-0006tO-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:24:10 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980406120213.00994440@mail.purity.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 10:08:32 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: multiple concurrent loops Resent-Message-ID: <"Vo03zC.A.3kE.DpRK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4905 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:24:10 -0700 X-UIDL: 92bcd41d5f0139322ab5c4080d420e37 You can only do this with one echoplex, if you layer the multiple loops on top of each other. The total loop length would have to be the lowest common multiple of the individual loop lengths. However, then you can't use different feedback settings for the different loops. Of course, this is easy (and expensive!) with multiple Echoplexi. - Chris >I would like to playback multiple seperate loops concurrently with an EDP. >One application for this would be using one loop as a foundation with >feedback at 100% while repeatedly overdubbing on a second loop at the same >time with it's feedback set lower. This would cause the second loop to >gradually change shape while the foundation (loop 1) remains consistant. > >Another possibility would be running many loops of varying lengths at the >same time. Depending on how you set it up, they would go in and out of >phase with eachother creating polyrhythmic relationships. Something like this: > >(where "|" is the end of the loop and "-" is loop data) > >|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----| >|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-| >|-----------|-----------|-----------|-----------|-----------| > >My question: Is this possible with a single Echoplex? > >Thanks, >Travis. __________________________________________________ Chris Chovit avec@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov AVIRIS Experiment Coordinator pager #: (888) 415-4547 From ???@??? Tue Apr 07 01:20:38 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 6 11:55:32 1998 Received: from falcon (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.27] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMH3E-0003Hs-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:55:24 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMH3A-0007k0-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:55:20 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMH2y-0003Fp-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:55:08 -0700 Message-Id: <199804061712.KAA25050@scv4.apple.com> Subject: Re: multiple concurrent loops Date: Mon, 6 Apr 98 12:13:38 -0500 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"oCXI9B.A.j6.eESK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4909 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:55:08 -0700 X-UIDL: 5de7ab700c591167c1e55b66d84a0e95 >I would like to playback multiple seperate loops concurrently with an EDP. >One application for this would be using one loop as a foundation with >feedback at 100% while repeatedly overdubbing on a second loop at the same >time with it's feedback set lower. This would cause the second loop to >gradually change shape while the foundation (loop 1) remains consistant. > >Another possibility would be running many loops of varying lengths at the >same time. Depending on how you set it up, they would go in and out of >phase with eachother creating polyrhythmic relationships. Something like >this: > >(where "|" is the end of the loop and "-" is loop data) > >|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----| >|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-| >|-----------|-----------|-----------|-----------|-----------| > >My question: Is this possible with a single Echoplex? Nope. Travis Hartnett From ???@??? Tue Apr 07 01:20:40 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 6 12:01:38 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMGlw-0000sS-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:37:32 -0700 From: "Bailey, Jim" To: 'matthew hahn' , "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: RE: Birds in our trees Date:Mon, 6 Apr 1998 13:22:00 -0400 Message-ID: <35290DF8@199.71.37.25> Encoding: 21 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"6b-aQ.A.zwG.p5RK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4907 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:37:32 -0700 X-UIDL: 5003b860cfc87f30dae50bac65003c57 One last question or two, does anybody here know of someone who has done something completely with birds, animals, samples environmental that was percussive as these birds were, and last has here anybody used bird calls and why? Was it for a particualar mood, for example. Mjh Hope I'm not chiming in too late on this, but I've been trying to catch up on things. Although it's not entirely natural sounds, I'm surprised no-one's mentioned "Granchester Meadows" by Roger Waters on Pink Floyd's ' 70 album "Ummagumma." There is a loop of a bird running all the way through it. Also, an album which I believe WAS actually made entirely with the sound of insects is "The Insect Musicians" by Graeme Revell (of SPK). The sounds were heavily modified (with lots of looping, no doubt) and end up sounding very electronic, and sometimes even orchestral. Well worth checking out. Jim Bailey From ???@??? Tue Apr 07 01:20:35 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 6 11:26:41 1998 Received: from falcon (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.27] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMGbJ-0007Af-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:26:33 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMGbC-0005tP-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:26:26 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMGax-00077W-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:26:11 -0700 Message-ID: <19980406180654.16374.rocketmail@attach1.rocketmail.com> Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:06:54 -0700 (PDT) From: "Rev. Doubt-Goat" Subject: Re: LD site To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"RMGCpD.A.SyE.uqRK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4906 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:26:11 -0700 X-UIDL: e00e71ddddd24c5d62284c1c30516e79 93 ---Sean T Barrett wrote: > > >thanks for your patience, > > Our patience?! You provide us a wonderful > free service, you bum! There's no excuse > for impatience on our part. > > Three cheers for kim in his time of adversity! > > Sean Add me to that list! 93 Rev. Doubt-GOat _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From ???@??? Tue Apr 07 01:20:37 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 6 11:51:32 1998 Received: from falcon (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.27] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMGzL-0002jz-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:51:23 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMGzA-0007Us-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:51:12 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMGyq-0002fw-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:50:52 -0700 From: ANET Message-ID: <53ffed48.35292041@aol.com> Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 14:34:38 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Lexicon MPX100 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Resent-Message-ID: <"S4NAvC.A.2p.gCSK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4908 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:50:53 -0700 X-UIDL: 7e37f9c2970a32149e3b5e06cb969dc0 In a message dated 98-04-06 12:00:21 EDT, you write: > > Well, John, if our experience with JAMMAN and Vortex are any indication, > we will stop producing the MPX 100 when we have a warehouse full of > product that is not moving! As this box will include reverb, all > indications are that this will not be a problem as Lexicon has never had > any trouble selling any product that contains reverb! > Greg, just have to give you a little grief. Sounds like a great product, where can we buy them and when? Any direct sales? Any Web sites to examine the specs? Have you heard it and what is your honest opinion. Midi controllable, right? Any new loop based gear on the horizon, we keep waiting for the next generation JM, but never see it? I know, buy an Echoplex or Eventide. Thanks to Kim, I probably will. Oh, buy-the-way, where does one go to buy an Echoplex? I don't think I've seen any postings on that. Regards; John Peters From ???@??? Mon Apr 06 09:36:27 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 6 05:41:54 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMBDi-0005Mw-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 05:41:50 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980406114711.26b73b5e@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> X-Sender: pycraft@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 11:47:11 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: "Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D." Subject: Re: Jamman VS. Plex In-Reply-To: <35281CCF.5B0F@ix.netcom.com> References: <3526437F.44E5E278@bellsouth.net> <3526953B.5B54@delphi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"VpDuG.A.wwE.rzMK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4897 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 05:41:50 -0700 X-UIDL: 964dbcba676e5fd404b63fb2d24ee864 YET ANOTHER Michael: > Is there anything that the Jamman can do that the Echoplex can't? I can't answer that, as I've only ever used the JM - however, they probably represent differences in approach rather than "which is better?" As it stands the EDP beats the JM hands dowm though there may be a few things that the JM can do, though there are ways to get at them. The recent "JM in delay mode" thread probably indicates there are some things the JM can do that the EDP does _differently_ - such as multiply and divide. Remember also that the JM costs half of what the EDP does, so don't expect too much. Michael From ???@??? Tue Apr 07 01:20:41 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 6 12:03:35 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMHB1-0004P1-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:03:27 -0700 Message-ID: <000601bd618c$74edd020$e922dacf@earthlight> Reply-To: "Stephen P. Goodman" From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: Re: Birds in our trees Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:47:29 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"9ZpHeC.A.lLC.qNSK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4910 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:03:27 -0700 X-UIDL: a5f708f20d59270c85fd50d44a5945bf Hi Folks! Jim Bailey commented: >Hope I'm not chiming in too late on this, but I've been trying to catch >up on things. Although it's not entirely natural sounds, I'm surprised >no-one's mentioned "Granchester Meadows" by Roger Waters on Pink Floyd's >' 70 album "Ummagumma." There is a loop of a bird running all the way >through it. That very bird loop shows up on a number of Pink Floyd albums actually. It's on The Wall, in several places (and I also remember hearing it in the concert as well); and Animals as well, on the "Dogs" side. I remember being disappointed in the Animals collection, by the way, because I had been expecting something of a full-on take on George Orwell's "Animal Farm". Alas. However! This weekend's Loop Of The Week will be addressing this issue, as well as others, as a matter of fact. I'm going to incorporate birds into it, as a hint. Nee-ha! Stephen Goodman * It's... The Loop Of The Week! EarthLight Studios * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios From ???@??? Tue Apr 07 01:20:48 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 6 12:47:51 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.21] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMHrn-0002Oo-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:47:44 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMHri-00038G-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:47:34 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMHrS-0002Ly-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:47:18 -0700 Message-ID: <215C1D5A0FFDD011B3CC00805FC18C292D67E4@ntsrv2.lexicon.com> From: "Hogan, Greg (Exchange)" To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Lexicon MPX100 Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 15:17:01 -0400 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"J03Q-B.A.jq.o5SK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4912 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:47:18 -0700 X-UIDL: cea919d4fb751291cd9ffafb16588d10 From John came: "Sounds like a great product, where can we buy them and when? Any direct sales? Any Web sites to examine the specs? Have you heard it and what is your honest opinion. Midi > controllable, right? > > Any new loop based gear on the horizon, we keep waiting for the next > generation JM, but never see it?" > The MPX 100 will be shipping next month and will be available at all music retailers that carry Lexicon products. I do not know if the specs are posted at www.lexicon.com yet or not. I know that there was something at www.harmonycentral.com but I don't believe that the specs are there yet either. I have heard it and my opinion is that it would sound great at any price but will not be beat for the price and yes, it is MIDI controllable. I am not aware of any plans for a JAMMAN replacement or second generation. There will be 20 seconds of mono or 10 seconds of stereo looping within the MPX G2 which will be shipping in the third quarter of this year. It will loop but you will not have the multiple loop features that are found in the dedicated loopers. Best regards, Greg From ???@??? Tue Apr 07 01:20:45 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 6 12:32:33 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMHd7-0000P2-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:32:29 -0700 Message-ID: <35292AE0.43C5@efn.org> Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 12:20:00 -0700 From: Peter Harlan Reply-To: pharlan@efn.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Birds in our trees References: <35290DF8@199.71.37.25> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"oIHvdC.A.PcG.CuSK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4911 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:32:29 -0700 X-UIDL: d5c0a098f7a527920a073218584f3cd6 Bailey, Jim wrote: > One last question or two, does anybody here know of someone who has done > something completely with birds, animals, samples environmental that was > percussive as these birds were, and last has here anybody used bird calls > and why? Was it for a particualar mood, for example. This is probably not what you're looking for, but there was a prolific French composer named Olivier Messiaen who incorporated bird calls into many of his works. He wrote primarily organ and choral works as I recall. Interesting person, very eccentric, a mystic. For something completely different, there's Paul Winter and the various animal and bird voices he's used over the years. By the way, on one recording which I'm sorry to say I can't identify (having just heard this on the radio in my car), he uses the song of some Amazon River bird (think that's right) which is truly amazing. It is without a doubt the most beautiful bird song I've ever heard, and had I not heard it, I wouldn't have ever imagined a bird could produce shuch sounds. If anybody knows what album this is from, please let me know! From ???@??? Tue Apr 07 01:20:55 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 6 13:39:48 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMIg6-0000vO-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 13:39:38 -0700 From: Marzzz Message-ID: <11318eb7.352935de@aol.com> Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 16:06:52 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Newborn looper in Switzerland Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Resent-Message-ID: <"SjGJGC.A.7bG.xoTK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4915 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 13:39:38 -0700 X-UIDL: db1c03ba0059abf390f22eab3f89a1b5 In a message dated 4/6/98 10:41:39 AM, you wrote: >After waiting 1 1/2 year I finally received my looping tools today after >a no problem delivery: 2 beautiful white twins doesn't it normally take 9 months? congratulations..... Marshall From ???@??? Tue Apr 07 01:20:54 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 6 13:22:12 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.21] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMIP6-0006Qu-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 13:22:04 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMIP5-0005AH-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 13:22:03 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMIOl-0006Nv-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 13:21:43 -0700 From: Marzzz Message-ID: <638a0539.35293735@aol.com> Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 16:12:35 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, ghogan@lexicon.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: RE: Lexicon MPX100 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Resent-Message-ID: <"vnkEiC.A.JCF.2dTK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4913 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 13:21:43 -0700 X-UIDL: 7161ebdcb6a3ba6b6da6487ae648321d In a message dated 4/6/98 2:44:47 PM, Greg wrote: >I am not aware of any plans for a JAMMAN replacement or second >generation. There will be 20 seconds of mono or 10 seconds of stereo >looping within the MPX G2 which will be shipping in the third quarter of >this year. It will loop but you will not have the multiple loop >features that are found in the dedicated loopers. Oh, I got the impression from the trade magazines it was coming out this spring.....??? Marshall From ???@??? Tue Apr 07 01:20:54 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 6 13:39:07 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.21] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMIfQ-0000px-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 13:38:56 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMIey-00066N-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 13:38:28 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMIeQ-0000hl-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 13:37:55 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980406202046.009d35c0@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 13:20:46 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" From: Kim Flint Subject: RE: Lexicon MPX100 Resent-Message-ID: <"H-WYaD.A.nTG.0nTK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4914 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 13:37:55 -0700 X-UIDL: 77d304781b3ae71b5388b3fa8fb5772a At 03:17 PM 4/6/98 -0400, Hogan, Greg (Exchange) wrote: >MPX G2 which will be shipping in the third quarter of this year. whoa! talk about yer vaporware! Must commend you guys on that one, nice bit of marketing artistry. Of course, you'd have to do much better than that to match some of the things I've been involved in..... :-) kim _______________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 Mpact Systems Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Tue Apr 07 01:21:15 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 6 17:44:31 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.21] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMMV2-000754-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:44:28 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMMV2-0004AN-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:44:29 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMMUv-00074a-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:44:21 -0700 Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 23:45:18 +0200 Message-Id: <199804062145.XAA02111@dada.it> X-Sender: cavallo@mail.dada.it X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: e.coco@fi.flashnet.it From: Leonardo Cavallo Subject: new e-mail address Cc: angelada@yahoo.com, mc8989@mclink.it, francesca.sm@fi.flashnet.it, f.belli@fi.flashnet.it, francehp@online.no, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, vit0202@comune.bologna.it, leoser@dinonet.it (ANPAS (Leonardo / Sergio)), stick@earthlink.net, stickwire-l@netcom.com, fernavarro@hotmail.com, sellon@mediaone.net, calissi@dada.it, mc7735@mclink.it, giromella@dinonet.it, manent@aidanet.com, stzabeo@tin.it, mannucci@dada.it, emme@dada.it, qme@pluto.dic.unipd.it, edoardof@usa.net, nicomonguzzi@vtx.ch, fn026107@flashnet.it, ginicosi@gol.grosseto.it, voulaz@korg.it Resent-Message-ID: <"OEu7nC.A.vFG.oXXK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4917 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:44:21 -0700 X-UIDL: e12befc1fa7de78fb3be0475cb2b388a hi, my new e-mail address is: Leonardo Cavallo ciao From ???@??? Tue Apr 07 01:21:12 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 6 17:13:27 1998 Received: from falcon (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.27] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMM0o-0003Er-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:13:15 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMM0k-0002XV-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:13:10 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMM0L-0003AG-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:12:45 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980406190543.006ceba8@mail.utexas.edu> X-Sender: esker@mail.utexas.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 19:05:43 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthew hahn Subject: Re: Newborn looper in Switzerland In-Reply-To: <11318eb7.352935de@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"elMVC.A.mBC.f2WK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4916 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:12:45 -0700 X-UIDL: 973e6576336108f28ecfe13ff8ba3900 Ha ha ha ha >In a message dated 4/6/98 10:41:39 AM, you wrote: > >>After waiting 1 1/2 year I finally received my looping tools today after >>a no problem delivery: 2 beautiful white twins > >doesn't it normally take 9 months? congratulations..... > > >Marshall > > > From ???@??? Mon Apr 06 11:07:18 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 6 10:40:25 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMFsd-0001UM-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 10:40:23 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980406175914.200733b4@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> X-Sender: pycraft@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 17:59:14 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: "Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D." Subject: RE: Lexicon MPX100 In-Reply-To: <215C1D5A0FFDD011B3CC00805FC18C292D67DB@ntsrv2.lexicon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"zLlxf.A.gH.CERK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4904 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 10:40:23 -0700 X-UIDL: da81413601668591ffbc2334ebc5d898 Greg: >Yes, Michael, you can loop the 5.7 seconds. Yay! >The memory is not expandable Boo! >and there is no loop spillover available. Boo! >Well, John, if our experience with JAMMAN and Vortex are any indication, >we will stop producing the MPX 100 when we have a warehouse full of >product that is not moving! As this box will include reverb, all >indications are that this will not be a problem as Lexicon has never had >any trouble selling any product that contains reverb! I never though the Vortex's problem was it's lack of reverb, more its lack of MIDI. It was the ONLY non-MIDI multiprocessor on the market at the time (and even now you're looking at the Deltafex etc). It would have just sat in a rack, not talking to the rest of the gear - which is a shame because the JM and Reflex WERE MIDI'd. This list may have loadsapeople who realise the box's potential enough to forgive its shortcomings, but that was quite a major shortcoming; it stopped building a dream system with these three units acting in concert. (Incidentally, the unit described in the Guitar & Bass Buyer's Guide - w/ MIDI and 2 amp switchers - sounded nigh-on perfect - which probably explains why that error sat on the listings for 3 years....) I'll admit that I was hoping the MPX100 was going to be "the Vortex, done right". Yeah, I know, I know, Lex _do_ make that, it's called the MPX1 and it's bloody expensive.... (whinge mode off) But really Greg, it's a neat piece of kit and I'm sure it'll flatten the competition (zoom? Peavey?). Michael From ???@??? Tue Apr 07 10:07:13 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 7 03:42:33 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMVpm-00021x-00; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 03:42:30 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 09:45:21 +0100 Message-ID: <00106ACD.1424@mail.bl.uk> From: David.Orton@mail.bl.uk (David Orton) Subject: Re[2]: Newborn looper in Switzerland To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"skenlB.A.frB.LKgK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4920 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 03:42:30 -0700 X-UIDL: 609c4972e1a3df02d9767daa5dca4854 Well obviously they're being run in series, so 9 months each equals 1.5 years, no? David >In a message dated 4/6/98 10:41:39 AM, you wrote: > >>After waiting 1 1/2 year I finally received my looping tools today after >>a no problem delivery: 2 beautiful white twins > >doesn't it normally take 9 months? congratulations..... > > >Marshall > > > From ???@??? Tue Apr 07 10:07:53 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 7 08:13:01 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMa3X-0001NS-00; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 08:12:59 -0700 Message-ID: <3529ED8B.19D5F662@nyfac.com> Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 10:10:36 +0100 From: tdbajus Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Newborn looper in Switzerland References: <3.0.1.32.19980406190543.006ceba8@mail.utexas.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qNBht.A.h0.QGkK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4921 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 08:12:59 -0700 X-UIDL: 69ef817a495d2f65f1aa230ad7a5178c > >In a message dated 4/6/98 10:41:39 AM, you wrote: > > > >>After waiting 1 1/2 year I finally received my looping tools today after > >>a no problem delivery: 2 beautiful white twins > > > >doesn't it normally take 9 months? congratulations..... I'm just glad they don't look like the mailman.... Trevor From ???@??? Tue Apr 07 10:07:55 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 7 08:19:57 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMaAC-0002Ej-00; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 08:19:52 -0700 Message-ID: <3529EF0E.6799568@nyfac.com> Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 10:17:02 +0100 From: tdbajus Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: LD site and pass the hat... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rYde0C.A.NjB.OMkK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4922 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 08:19:52 -0700 X-UIDL: 0677c6798bf533321e3d2b649c3415c7 As I am now bandless, this is a selfless act... I think that what we should try to do is help promote each other. How are the draws on the loop shows going? I would have little or no objection to having an guest from SF (seems where half the people on the list are from) is from here in NYC, so that they could have their own American tour... I know we have some folks in Texas, right? Has to be someone LA, DC, etc. OK? Wouldn't seem to be such a hard thing to do, so long as no one abuses it. What do you girls think of the whole round robin idea? Trevor PS: is Kim Flint the next Andre Bazin? Only time will tell. From ???@??? Tue Apr 07 02:52:32 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 7 02:38:15 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMUpY-0007KC-00; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 02:38:12 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980406025741.0097be58@pop.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 02:33:42 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: LD site and pass the hat... Resent-Message-ID: <"XFL83.A.TjG.kNfK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4919 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 02:38:12 -0700 X-UIDL: 7468fe0d8f454bf9ace8833bb5865c68 Status: O X-Status: At 9:57 PM -0500 4/5/98, Grover Sheffield wrote: >Okay. It's worth some $ to me. Address?? > >> >>Ya know, it's gonna be a while before the LD cd royalties start flowing. >> whadduya say, those of us who haven't already done so: let's roll some >>green >>Kim's way, give him at least some monetary help with this ISP mess. >> >>laurie hey thanks, I really appreciate the offer! If you are interested in helping out however, what I really prefer is time! If you can find some time to write an article and contribute it to the website, or do anything else that strikes your fancy, that would be truly helpful. Looper's Delight is mostly created by people volunteering their efforts, and the more volunteers we have adding things, the better it gets! So scratch your noggin and think of something you can do! If you can't think of anything, there are plenty of loose projects floating around that you are more than welcome to take on. If you have no time, and would still like to help out with a little cash, that's perfectly alright with me. This stuff doesn't run for free. Hopefully we'll have Looper's Delight cd project profits paying for it in the near future, but in the mean time it comes from my pocket. If you want to help out, send me private mail and we can make some arrangement. thanks! kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Apr 07 02:35:14 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 7 02:18:21 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMUWK-0006Nd-00; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 02:18:20 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980407105943.0dcf5558@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> X-Sender: pycraft@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 10:59:43 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: "Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D." Subject: Re: multiple concurrent loops In-Reply-To: <199804061712.KAA25050@scv4.apple.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"q0Sc8C.A.kxF.V7eK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4918 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 02:18:20 -0700 X-UIDL: 93c42884d48efa12c3c03b8d03bee8ec >>Another possibility would be running many loops of varying lengths at the >>same time. Depending on how you set it up, they would go in and out of >>phase with eachother creating polyrhythmic relationships. Something like >>this: >> >>(where "|" is the end of the loop and "-" is loop data) >> >>|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----| >>|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-| >>|-----------|-----------|-----------|-----------|-----------| >> >>My question: Is this possible with a single Echoplex? Something similar (but not identical) can be done with the JamMan in Delay mode - set up a loop, then make a larger loop of any length made up of the smaller loop. Or make a big loop and cut it at a non-looppoint point (if you see what I mean). Michael From ???@??? Wed Apr 08 09:40:49 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 8 08:25:13 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMwiq-0000nI-00; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 08:25:08 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 08:17:20 -0700 Message-ID: <000B8340.----@wj.com> From: Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle) Subject: Re: bye for now... To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com, Goddess Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"k2Gex.A.pM.-W5K1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4924 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 08:25:08 -0700 X-UIDL: 2bc8b24e3235555577574573e7c4dc91 Sorry to see you go, Corynne, but I know how it is! I've enjoyed your comments and lightness here. You'll be missed. All the best in life and music! -Miko ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: bye for now... Author: Goddess at INTERNET Date: 9/12/97 1:43 AM Hello again, my replies lately have been few and far-between and usually pretty short. My life is turning some pretty intense corners of late and on most days, the volume of mail I get from the list when added to whatever I haven't previously gotten to read, becomes too much for me to handle. I mean the amount, not the content. lol! So I'm saying bye for now and am temporarily leaving the list. I'd love to keep chatting with those of you who have shown an interest in my posts or just want to say "hi" or talk so please feel free to write me at this e_mail address: thefates@concentric.net I hope to talk with everyone soon as this list can be a very good resource and has some pretty nice people on it. See you all soon... Bye for now, smiles, Corynne From ???@??? Thu Apr 09 00:17:34 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 8 10:49:33 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMyyY-0002ax-00; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 10:49:30 -0700 Sender: randy@cdac.com Message-ID: <352B9FC3.44C8FA67@cdac.com> Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 09:03:15 -0700 From: Randy Reichenbach Organization: Cascade Design Automation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Sharing etiquette w/$$$ attached References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tIqPaC.A.EiB.Yc7K1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4927 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 10:49:30 -0700 X-UIDL: ade607292bfd58fe58cad803f7aaabe8 Patrick Smith wrote: > > >In a message dated 98-04-03 15:43:07 EST, you write: > > > > > > > Last week I asked a simple question, "What is the going rate for a used > > JamMan?". I received not even ONE response. I would imagine that 80% > > of you have a good idea. Was my question too basic and "newbee" for all > > you pros? > > > I've been on this list for a couple of years now and seldom post. Most of > this is due tro an extremely busy life. I always enjoy the thoughful posts > by the likes of Kim, Sean B, Andre, but I tend to MEAN to add something > and.... > > Anyhow to your query which I never even read, I recently bought a jam man > with 32 seconds for $350. Two months ago I sold one with 8 seconds for > $500. So there's some trivia for ya. > > Many times I have to do a wholesale trashing of posts, due to lack of time. > > Patrick > > *** *** ** Fingerpaint http://www.his.com/~patrick/FNGP.html *** ** > > Thanks for your input Patrick. Yeah, since I'm new to this list, I don't think I realized how many posts are made each day. I have to admit, if the subject ain't what I'm lookin' for, I never open the msg. Cheers, -- Peace ... =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ====== = Randy Reichenbach randy@cdac.com = // || \\ =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= || || || = Physical Design Engineer (VLSI-CAD) = || //\\ || = Cascade Design Automation = \\//__\\// = 3650 131st Ave SE, Suite 650 = `------' = Bellevue, Washington 98006 = = Tel: 425.643.0200 Fax: 425.649.7600 = ... Get some! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From ???@??? Wed Apr 08 10:04:55 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 8 09:43:55 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMxx2-0001oa-00; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 09:43:52 -0700 Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 01:38:16 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: X-Mailer: Macintosh Eudora Pro Version 2.1.3-J Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: cave@pop1.osk.3web.ne.jp (Sunao Inami) Subject: KC project in Japan Resent-Message-ID: <"VlSiLB.A.NDB.hg6K1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4925 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 09:43:52 -0700 X-UIDL: 86be1c00f3096529cb7a82825dc5ad18 Hi Loopers, Great show!! Today I saw King Crimson project live gig in Osaka,Japan! A large audience,the Hall "Heat Beat" was full(I guess it over 800 people). Belew played electronic drums only,he was not played the guitar,Just a Drummer. Mr.Torn used EchoPlex,Vortex,PCM80,GM70(maybe),Ebow(a little play) etc.. Jamman has disappeared in his rack.. Tony and Bruford spoke Japanese on stage. cool :) Reagrds Sunao Inami E-mail cave@osk.3web.ne.jp URL"cave home" http://www.threeweb.ad.jp/~cave/ tel&fax "CAVE Studio" +81 794 89 5025 Hyogo,Japan From ???@??? Wed Apr 08 10:04:57 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 8 10:01:01 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMyDZ-0004CF-00; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 10:00:57 -0700 From: KRosser414 Message-ID: <87c3bff5.352bab9c@aol.com> Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 12:53:46 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Joni's new stuff Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Resent-Message-ID: <"LpH_nD.A.vMD.xv6K1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4926 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 10:00:57 -0700 X-UIDL: e9f5bb95f66ec8fe442daadaf4109963 >yes she (Joni Mitchell) sure is.....and i hear the new CD she's about to release is >chock full of roland VG-8, Last I heard the upcoming record (Taming The Tiger) is entirely Joni on electric guitar through VG-8 and Brian Blade on drums (no bass/keys/horns, nada). It'll be interesting to see how much makes the final cut that way. June release? I don't know what the latest ETA is... Ken R From ???@??? Thu Apr 09 00:18:40 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 8 23:45:20 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yNB5I-0005bY-00; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 23:45:16 -0700 Message-Id: <199804090640.CAA10061@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: No Looping Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 02:40:34 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"a6sPoB.A.g9E.V3GL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4928 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 23:45:16 -0700 X-UIDL: 015496927c25b597fbc1ea69c27505bb hey folks.. warning - self-congratulatory horn-blowing post!!! no looping content here, but thought you'd get a kick outta one of yer own (actually, me) getting some cool international press via UPI and veteran music writer John Swenson (Rolling stone, spin, musician, creem, circus, etc) . this is about a show i recently did with my non-looping band... This article, plus about $400, will get me a Jamman!!! enjoy - link follows>> http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/upi/story.html?s=n/upi/98/04/08/enterta inment/usrock_1.html andre' c. From ???@??? Thu Apr 09 00:18:41 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 9 00:07:48 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yNBR2-000746-00; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 00:07:44 -0700 Message-Id: <199804090702.DAA13877@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: , Subject: Re: No Looping;Link correction !! Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 03:02:27 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dThrN.A.FSG.yLHL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4929 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 00:07:44 -0700 X-UIDL: 15c4fec0fac0a52bbc8c6aeaba858932 oops,, if you care - here's the correct link. sorry for wasted bandwidth!! http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/upi/story.html?s=n/upi/98/04/08/enterta inment/usrock_1.html andre' From ???@??? Thu Apr 09 09:43:55 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 9 09:07:39 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNJrU-00057F-00; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 09:07:36 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 08:52:17 -0700 Message-ID: <000B9580.----@wj.com> From: Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle) Subject: Re[2]: No Looping;Link correction !! To: , "andre" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"xr9ezC.A.qBE.LCPL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4930 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 09:07:36 -0700 X-UIDL: f610a0637c799645ca8f24c423ea72e8 Great review Andre! When does this become a travelling road show? 8-> -Miko ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: No Looping;Link correction !! Author: "andre" at INTERNET Date: 4/9/98 3:02 AM oops,, if you care - here's the correct link. sorry for wasted bandwidth!! http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/upi/story.html?s=n/upi/98/04/08/enterta inment/usrock_1.html andre' From ???@??? Thu Apr 09 11:02:05 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 9 10:41:51 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNLKU-0007Ah-00; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 10:41:38 -0700 Message-ID: <03ac01bd63db$e4fe4a60$29f0ffd0@default> From: "future perfect" To: Subject: B.L.U.E. live internet broadcast Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 13:21:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"kpn73.A.9rE.LPQL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4931 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 10:41:38 -0700 X-UIDL: f7289f2d9678571fcf28ec4f095d79da I came across this: A live Bruford Levin Upper Extremeties internet broadcast from the House of blues at Harvard Square. Sunday April 19 6:30 pm PT (1:30 GMT) http://www.liveconcerts.com/event/preevent.html I have seen concerts from this site before, you can use Real Audio or Real Player, but Real Player has the advantage of having video along with it. Granted, its not like a movie, but this is the closest I'll get to see Mr. Torn play (there not coming to Florida :(...) Dave Eichenberger ********************************************************************* 'Future Perfect' - art music - visit our website at: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/8082 From ???@??? Thu Apr 09 11:02:06 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 9 10:56:50 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNLZ4-0001MM-00; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 10:56:42 -0700 Message-ID: <008301bd63dd$cc8f2f60$c2b854ce@mark.asisoftware.com> From: Mark@asisoftware.com (Mark Kata) To: "Loopers Delight" Subject: Looper Wishlist Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 13:34:50 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"4kd2OB.A.cBH.fjQL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4932 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 10:56:42 -0700 X-UIDL: 09e7a19a56748bcbce2585109f0a1754 I bet everyone on this list has wished that some piece of equipment could do more that it was designed to do. Since looping devices are so rare, perhaps the next manufacturer to develop one could incorporate the suggestions that we come up with. Here's my suggestion: In addition to wanting more delay time, I'd like to see a "mutate" knob on future looping devices. This knob would control the randomness of a loop. For example, it could cause the loop to randomly expand and contract it length, change its tone color or even cut and paste various portions of the loop into a random order. Of course, there would be a "reset" button that allows you to eliminate all mutations made and return to your original loop. Lex, Obie and B'rang, can this be done? Thanks, Mark Kata Mark@asisoftware.com From ???@??? Thu Apr 09 11:26:08 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 9 11:25:34 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNM0v-000517-00; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 11:25:29 -0700 Message-ID: <03e401bd63e3$5168f180$29f0ffd0@default> From: "future perfect" To: Subject: Re: Looper Wishlist Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 14:14:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"SDgP1.A._PD.x-QL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4933 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 11:25:29 -0700 X-UIDL: 292f97fdf45ca1fecb1cd04d68962fd6 Heres my idea...say you loop a small rhythm groove, like drums and bass...now, it would be neat to set the feedback so that only everything after the initial groove is affected, so the rhythm keeps going on endlessly while melodies fade in and out. Just a thought, Dave Eichenberger ********************************************************************* 'Future Perfect' - art music - visit our website at: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/8082 "Establish the possible, and move gradually towards the impossible" -Robert Fripp >I bet everyone on this list has wished that some piece of equipment could do >more that it was designed to do. From ???@??? Fri Apr 10 01:21:22 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 9 11:42:04 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net ([207.171.193.21] helo=falcon.slip.net) by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@slip.net id 0yNMGk-00071S-00; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 11:41:50 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yNMGE-0001KR-00; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 11:41:18 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNMFp-0006u0-00; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 11:40:53 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <008301bd63dd$cc8f2f60$c2b854ce@mark.asisoftware.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 11:25:47 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Looper Wishlist Resent-Message-ID: <"NJasd.A.53E.nLRL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4934 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 11:40:53 -0700 X-UIDL: f9718614a18dc51a2894c6d0843ebf88 At 1:34 PM -0400 4/9/98, Mark Kata wrote: >I bet everyone on this list has wished that some piece of equipment could do >more that it was designed to do. Since looping devices are so rare, perhaps >the next manufacturer to develop one could incorporate the suggestions that >we come up with. ya never know who's listening.... >Here's my suggestion: > >In addition to wanting more delay time, I'd like to see a "mutate" knob on >future looping devices. > >This knob would control the randomness of a loop. For example, it could >cause the loop to randomly expand and contract it length, change its tone >color or even cut and paste various portions of the loop into a random >order. Of course, there would be a "reset" button that allows you to >eliminate all mutations made and return to your original loop. > >Lex, Obie and B'rang, can this be done? Well, probably, but would you really want a machine (or really, the machine's designer) to control all these things for you? It couldn't be truly random, only random within some predefined boundaries, which might not be what you want in a given situation. You might not like it at all, since it would be to the designer's taste, and you would be stuck with that for this "randomness knob". So you would likely want some way to set all the different parameters making up those boundaries. That might be a little more interesting, but more complicated, and maybe not very useful most of the time. You could probably do this now with Max. Apply random number generators to various controller objects, and send it out to whatever loopers and effects you have. You could make it as complicated or as simple as you like, and it would be customized for your needs. I've done that for debugging echoplex/Loop software, and occasionally something interesting happened. Usually those were bugs, of course.... and if you're thinking about stuff like this and you don't have Max, well, for shame.... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Fri Apr 10 01:21:27 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 9 13:31:58 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNNzD-00022b-00; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 13:31:51 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19980409143359.00746324@dharma.mitre.org> X-Sender: seligman@dharma.mitre.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 14:33:59 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Len Seligman Subject: Re: Looper Wishlist In-Reply-To: <03e401bd63e3$5168f180$29f0ffd0@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"6XpkSB.A._x.G4SL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4935 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 13:31:51 -0700 X-UIDL: 165d84e3d743cba943c421913080d335 At 02:14 PM 4/9/98 -0400, you wrote: > > Heres my idea...say you loop a small rhythm groove, like drums and >bass...now, it would be neat to set the feedback so that only everything >after the initial groove is affected, so the rhythm keeps going on endlessly >while melodies fade in and out. Yes, that would be great! I guess you could do this with 2 sync'd loopers now, eh? -Len From ???@??? Fri Apr 10 01:21:31 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 9 13:54:02 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNOKe-0004gB-00; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 13:54:00 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980409204835.00d7aa94@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 13:48:35 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Looper Wishlist Resent-Message-ID: <"RvfgHC.A.J0D.0QTL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4936 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 13:54:00 -0700 X-UIDL: 0189a779103c10f67c374133509fffc2 At 02:33 PM 4/9/98 -0400, you wrote: >At 02:14 PM 4/9/98 -0400, you wrote: >> >> Heres my idea...say you loop a small rhythm groove, like drums and >>bass...now, it would be neat to set the feedback so that only everything >>after the initial groove is affected, so the rhythm keeps going on endlessly >>while melodies fade in and out. > >Yes, that would be great! I guess you could do this with 2 sync'd loopers >now, eh? yeah, that works fine. Even more convenient since it allows for multiple people to be creating the parts on their own loopers. Or you could even use one looper sync'd to a sequencer/drum machine. kim ________________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 Mpact System Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Fri Apr 10 09:52:09 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 10 03:29:29 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNb3n-0005OL-00; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 03:29:27 -0700 Sender: mpeters@csi.com Message-ID: <01BD6467.91B99670.mpeters@csi.com> From: Michael Peters To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: AW: Looper Wishlist Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:01:05 +0200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-Mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"riMVDD.A.s1E.4PfL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4944 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 03:29:27 -0700 X-UIDL: 20a9c9a99a12535f52de42d0ba074a27 > and if you're thinking about stuff like this and you don't have Max, well, > for shame.... I've asked Opcode and they don't have plans to make a Windows version. Arrgh! michael peters mpeters@csi.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Mpeters/ From ???@??? Fri Apr 10 01:21:58 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 9 17:57:35 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net ([207.171.193.21] helo=falcon.slip.net) by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@slip.net id 0yNS8L-0002sc-00; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 17:57:33 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yNQzA-0006jh-00; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:44:00 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNQz0-0001fh-00; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:43:50 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 15:10:36 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Looper Wishlist Resent-Message-ID: <"uuA6q.A.Ic.BoVL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4938 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:43:50 -0700 X-UIDL: 0616362be3f32035239377beeb12661a I had a nutty idea for a looper a while ago. I was playing around with the vortex, which has some patches that use dynamics as a control parameter, mostly for things like echo level and feedback, and was thinking about other ways dynamics could be used to control a looper. What if you could replace elements in a loop based on dynamics? If you're silent, the loop remains the same, if you play softly, the new material is mixed into the background of the old, and if you play at full volume, the old material is completely replaced by the new. I can't imagine if playing a device like this would actually produce anything musical, but it'd be cool to try. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ "...there will come a day when you won't have to use gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." -Sun Ra ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Fri Apr 10 01:21:49 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 9 16:09:53 1998 Received: from falcon ([207.171.193.27] helo=falcon.slip.net) by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@slip.net id 0yNQS3-0005p1-00; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:09:47 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yNQRx-0005GK-00; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:09:42 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNQRs-0005nu-00; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:09:36 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980409222355.00e292c8@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 15:23:55 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: It's ALIVE! Resent-Message-ID: <"HbT10B.A.2YE.FMVL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4937 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:09:36 -0700 X-UIDL: b9931864faa648c08f15dc194013c3f3 The website is fully functional again, after increasingly agitated calls to my ISP finally got somewhere. It's possibly even more functional, since it has been switched to an Apache server instead of the Netscape server it used to live on. Browse freely: http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html kim ________________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 Mpact System Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Fri Apr 10 01:21:57 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 9 17:18:49 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNRWj-0005zJ-00; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 17:18:41 -0700 Message-Id: <199804100003.RAA23502@sonic.sonic.com> Subject: Re: Looper Wishlist Date: Thu, 9 Apr 98 17:11:39 -0700 x-sender: andy_wolpert@pop.sonic.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Andy Wolpert To: "Loopers Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"bIk2AD.A.YcE.UMWL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4939 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 17:18:41 -0700 X-UIDL: 9a5e52fa17c019cc37fe3bd08eccf01c >What if you could >replace elements in a loop based on dynamics? If you're silent, the loop >remains the same, if you play softly, the new material is mixed into the >background of the old, and if you play at full volume, the old material is >completely replaced by the new. I Working with a compressor on the sum of live and looped sound has a similar effect in that the live sound pushes the loop out of the way (no completely), put when you stop playing the loop comes back. __ _/\_ / \___/ \______ \ Andy Wolpert \__ | Sonic Solutions \ / awolpert@sonic.com / | (415) 893-8043 / \___ __ ___/ \__/ \_____/ From ???@??? Fri Apr 10 01:22:01 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 9 19:00:08 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNT6o-0002el-00; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 19:00:02 -0700 From: Marzzz Message-ID: <19474b8a.352d7ae8@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:50:30 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Looper Wishlist Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 84 Resent-Message-ID: <"zCDAXD.A.9fB.tsXL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4940 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 19:00:02 -0700 X-UIDL: b3626b08acc4e5ed1f70c04ce9ec0a6f Very simple- Allocation of memory in such way that you can play multiple, simultaneous, sync-able (or totally unrelated) loops. Marshall From ???@??? Fri Apr 10 01:22:14 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 9 21:12:38 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNVB5-0005VZ-00; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:12:35 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:10:14 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Looper Wishlist Resent-Message-ID: <"fhD1AD.A.d_E.7uZL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4941 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:12:35 -0700 X-UIDL: 797cc709fd12be8efa09959823c803fe >>What if you could >>replace elements in a loop based on dynamics? If you're silent, the loop >>remains the same, if you play softly, the new material is mixed into the >>background of the old, and if you play at full volume, the old material is >>completely replaced by the new. I > > Working with a compressor on the sum of live and looped sound has a >similar effect in that the live sound pushes the loop out of the way (no >completely), put when you stop playing the loop comes back. > The Vortex does this, very nice for having loops fill the space between phrases, but not crowd out the live sound, But what I'm talking about is having the live playing overdubbed into the loop, recording over/mixing with the looped material at a volume determined by the dynamics. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ "...there will come a day when you won't have to use gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." -Sun Ra ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Fri Apr 10 09:52:06 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 10 01:59:36 1998 Received: from falcon ([207.171.193.27] helo=falcon.slip.net) by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@slip.net id 0yNZep-0000M0-00; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:59:35 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yNXNv-0006Pl-00; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:33:59 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNXNg-00061d-00; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:33:44 -0700 Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:20:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Todd Pafford Reply-To: Todd Pafford To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Looper Wishlist In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"_f2SoD.A.u_D.3obL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4942 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:33:44 -0700 X-UIDL: 6119335070a88e5351c5250698e776e5 On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Dave Trenkel wrote: > I had a nutty idea for a looper a while ago. I was playing around with the > vortex, which has some patches that use dynamics as a control parameter, > mostly for things like echo level and feedback, and was thinking about > other ways dynamics could be used to control a looper. What if you could > replace elements in a loop based on dynamics? If you're silent, the loop > remains the same, if you play softly, the new material is mixed into the > background of the old, and if you play at full volume, the old material is > completely replaced by the new. I can't imagine if playing a device like > this would actually produce anything musical, but it'd be cool to try. > > ________________________________________________________ > Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ The Vortex already does this (dynamic loop replacement)...check out setting 9b. Granted, it's not a looper per se but it's the loopiest delay I've ever seen. :) --- "If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite." -- William Blake Todd "Uses setting 9b too too much" Pafford galen@erols.com From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 00:40:56 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 10 11:00:48 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNi6R-00065o-00; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:00:39 -0700 Sender: r_t_cummings@csi.com Message-ID: <352E0F17.53359B2F@csi.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:22:49 +0200 From: Cummings X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Looper Wishlist References: <199804092014_MC2-3962-5A75@compuserve.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------8CD3EB8473D5B9039B449CF0" Resent-Message-ID: <"O1SYb.A.BuE.LxlL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4949 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:00:39 -0700 X-UIDL: 49bf8e53050224f24f5e376e9132f085 Andy wrote: > >What if you could > >replace elements in a loop based on dynamics? If you're silent, the loop > >remains the same, if you play softly, the new material is mixed into the > >background of the old, and if you play at full volume, the old material is > >completely replaced by the new. I > > Working with a compressor on the sum of live and looped sound has a > similar effect in that the live sound pushes the loop out of the way (no > completely), put when you stop playing the loop comes back. > > __ _/\_ > / \___/ \______ > \ Andy Wolpert \__ > | Sonic Solutions \ > / awolpert@sonic.com / > | (415) 893-8043 / > \___ __ ___/ > \__/ \_____/ I've tried using this "ducking" effect on my Composer with the sidechain. It's a strange effect, but not one that really blew me away. Maybe I just didn't find the killer app. A little more interesting was to use a delayed signal on the sidechain. By playing at the delay tempo you could use the gate to "bite" off parts of the dry (without delay) signal. Another effect I tried was to use a simple rhythm trigger (e.g.BD from drum machine) on the side chain. If you put a fairly droney texture loop through the main section, the rhythm pulses could be used to add gated swells to the drone. I suppose these are all old tricks (they're described somewhat in the Behringer manual). Anyone else know some wild tricks with dynamic processors? Rob Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Visitenkarte für R & T Cummings Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" Attachment converted: shards o' data:vcard.vcf (TEXT/R*ch) (0000107F) From ???@??? Fri Apr 10 09:52:17 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 10 07:25:32 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNekF-0007aB-00; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 07:25:31 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980410073729.00805ce0@wavefront.com> X-Sender: chuck.zwicky@wavefront.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 07:37:29 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chuck Zwicky Subject: Dynamic Looping (WAS: Re: Looper Wishlist) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"0S-FiC.A.5yG.tsiL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4945 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 07:25:31 -0700 X-UIDL: bba50927770e4d67ee30b02611d390ee A month ago I asked the question "Is the feedback pedal input on the Echoplex Digital Pro audio or CV?", to which I received no reply. Here is the reason for the question: >>>What if you could >>>replace elements in a loop based on dynamics? I have set up delay based loops using the Ensoniq DP/4+ in a feedback configuration, where one processor is used in a feedback loop around another. By using a compressor in the feedback loop around a delay, things get pushed around dynamically in the loop quite nicely. The loops take on a life of their own and evolve in very subtle or bizzarrely extreme ways. The same effect is possible using a Jamman or EDP with a mixer. Set the looper's mix to full wet, connect it's output to a channel, and it's input from an aux send. Insert a compressor either before or after the looper. Use the aux send on the mixer channel which the looper is in to control repeats. If the EDP feedback jack uses an audio signal, the same results could be acheived by inserting a compressor there. The time constants of the compressor play a major role in shaping the result, so use one which has wide ranging attack and release adjustments. Variable ratio and knee are also good to have available. I'd love to hear what you think of the results..... -Chuck Zwicky From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 00:41:04 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 10 12:54:25 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNjsV-0002O3-00; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:54:23 -0700 Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:51:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199804101551.LAA01709@mcfeely.concentric.net> X-Sender: hideo@pop3.concentric.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Tom Lambrecht Subject: Re: Dynamic Looping (WAS: Re: Looper Wishlist) Resent-Message-ID: <"86bR-C.A.5oB.uenL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4951 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:54:23 -0700 X-UIDL: b75270a214f639414f76122c4d54ed2d At 07:37 AM 4/10/98 -0500, you wrote: >A month ago I asked the question "Is the feedback pedal input on the >Echoplex Digital Pro audio or CV?", to which I received no reply. > >Here is the reason for the question: > >>>>What if you could >>>>replace elements in a loop based on dynamics? > >I have set up delay based loops using the Ensoniq DP/4+ in a feedback >configuration, where one processor is used in a feedback loop around another. >By using a compressor in the feedback loop around a delay, things get >pushed around dynamically in the loop quite nicely. The loops take on a >life of their own and evolve in very subtle or bizzarrely extreme ways. > >The same effect is possible using a Jamman or EDP with a mixer. Set the >looper's mix to full wet, connect it's output to a channel, and it's input >from an aux send. >Insert a compressor either before or after the looper. Use the aux send on >the mixer channel which the looper is in to control repeats. > If the EDP feedback jack uses an audio signal, the same results could be >acheived by inserting a compressor there. > >The time constants of the compressor play a major role in shaping the >result, so use one which has wide ranging attack and release adjustments. >Variable ratio and knee are also good to have available. > >I'd love to hear what you think of the results..... > >-Chuck Zwicky > > > > > Chuck: canna' help you with the Eplex ?, but this weekend I'm definitely going to try this with my Jammie :) AFTER I mow the lawn this fine day (a loop in itself) I've done a similar things running loops thru a flanger, but then you get that flange-colored tone . . . loops that flux by themselves are my favorite cuz' they are an artificial form of life--a nice, spiralling soundtrack to perform your higher functions to . . . get looped :()()())))))()())()()()()()))()))())()())))())))()() Tom Tom Lambrecht hideo@concentric.net From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 00:41:00 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 10 11:15:28 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNiKf-00005F-00; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:15:21 -0700 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199804101653.JAA02215@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: AW: Looper Wishlist To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:53:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <01BD6467.91B99670.mpeters@csi.com> from "Michael Peters" at Apr 9, 98 11:01:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5yZo5C.A.0lG.bAmL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4950 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:15:21 -0700 X-UIDL: f486d4e4e9d35bfd18b1cabf7c976f41 > > and if you're thinking about stuff like this and you don't have Max, well, > > for shame.... > > I've asked Opcode and they don't have plans to make a Windows version. Arrgh! > > michael peters mpeters@csi.com > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Mpeters/ I've been meaning to ask this for a while, but.... How do the MIDI functions of Symbolic Sound's Kyma compare to Max? Especially for looping? Thanks, Paolo Valladolid --------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ---------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Fri Apr 10 10:13:37 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 10 10:07:19 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNhGj-0007Oz-00; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:07:13 -0700 From: NEMOGUIT Message-ID: <99324c8f.352e5076@aol.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:01:40 EDT To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: loopers wishlist Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 81 Resent-Message-ID: <"my8MfC.A.fYG.cClL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4946 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:07:13 -0700 X-UIDL: 1b00e590d5a80fbbd69a37bba028a7ce not being a big techie i would like to see: audio cassettes come with new equipment that start "turn on your xyz796 and when your push these buttons it will sound like this...........now if you turn this knob it will sound like this........" ect. i know we all love reading our manuels, i know i drag mine out when i cant sleep, but to HEAR the the creators of these wonderous boxes teach how to use them and the many and varied sounds which can be produced. i feel this would help me more quickly delve the mighty depths and not feel that my little boxes are sitting there laughing at me saying "he will never fully understand us"!! ..............................................jsut sitting in my lo-tech cave...................michael p.s. happy easter one and all From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 00:40:52 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 10 10:20:00 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNhT2-00018T-00; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:19:56 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980410073729.00805ce0@wavefront.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:12:59 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Dynamic Looping (WAS: Re: Looper Wishlist) Resent-Message-ID: <"s6T6Z.A.IU.ANlL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4947 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:19:56 -0700 X-UIDL: 3cb2fb1477a3af2cd96b3607294a3e31 At 7:37 AM -0500 4/10/98, Chuck Zwicky wrote: >A month ago I asked the question "Is the feedback pedal input on the >Echoplex Digital Pro audio or CV?", to which I received no reply. it's a control voltage, set with a potentiometer in the feedback jack. There's no audio there. The audio remains digital for the the feedback path, and the feedback is done by a calculation in the processor. If the audio were being converted to analog for the feedback and back to digital each time through the loop, your loops would start to sound pretty bad after a while. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 00:40:53 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 10 10:28:13 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNhax-0002AO-00; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:28:07 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <99324c8f.352e5076@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:20:41 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: loopers wishlist Resent-Message-ID: <"-Hk1xD.A.MQB.bUlL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4948 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:28:07 -0700 X-UIDL: 7b17d01796b70434dd1f12558b366f1f At 1:01 PM -0400 4/10/98, NEMOGUIT wrote: >i know we all love reading our manuels, i know i drag mine out when i cant >sleep, but to HEAR the the creators of these wonderous boxes teach how to use >them and the many and varied sounds which can be produced. i feel this would >help me more quickly delve the mighty depths and not feel that my little boxes >are sitting there laughing at me saying "he will never fully understand us"!! A good idea, certainly. But don't you get that by being on this list? The creators of most the devices we talk about are here! Oberheim has talked about making a video, I think that would be a helpful thing. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Fri Apr 10 09:52:08 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 10 03:25:40 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net ([207.171.193.21] helo=falcon.slip.net) by ferret.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@slip.net id 0yNb06-00050m-00; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 03:25:38 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net ([207.171.193.6] ident=mail) by falcon.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNb03-0005DA-00; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 03:25:35 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNb02-00050K-00; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 03:25:34 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980410110114.25e733b0@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> X-Sender: pycraft@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:01:14 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: "Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D." Subject: Re: Looper Wishlist In-Reply-To: <19474b8a.352d7ae8@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ct-ryC.A.kdE.MMfL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4943 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 03:25:34 -0700 X-UIDL: 2da2c3591fe7e5156c684b9e2c2cf3ea Marshal from Marz said: >Allocation of memory in such way that you can play multiple, simultaneous, >sync-able (or totally unrelated) loops. ^^^^^^^^^ Howzabout this one guys - why is the JamMan like the Titanic? Both were officially un-sync-able! (though of course, methods were later found to sync both...) baBOOM! Michael #347 From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 00:41:06 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 10 13:16:15 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNkDY-0004Xw-00; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:16:08 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980410134713.007b8460@wavefront.com> X-Sender: chuck.zwicky@wavefront.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:47:13 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chuck Zwicky Subject: Re: Dynamic Looping (WAS: Re: Looper Wishlist) In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19980410073729.00805ce0@wavefront.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"qXHYC.A.xtD.aznL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4952 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:16:08 -0700 X-UIDL: e37c9af56282928b7e0d43f97e94c3b9 Kim, I've heard from Jamman users who later bought EDPs that the loops tend to degrade more over time in the EDP...... -Chuck At 10:12 AM 4/10/98 -0700, you wrote: >At 7:37 AM -0500 4/10/98, Chuck Zwicky wrote: >>A month ago I asked the question "Is the feedback pedal input on the >>Echoplex Digital Pro audio or CV?", to which I received no reply. > >it's a control voltage, set with a potentiometer in the feedback jack. >There's no audio there. The audio remains digital for the the feedback >path, and the feedback is done by a calculation in the processor. If the >audio were being converted to analog for the feedback and back to digital >each time through the loop, your loops would start to sound pretty bad >after a while. > >kim > > >______________________________________________________________________ >Kim Flint | Looper's Delight >kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html >http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > > > > > From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 00:41:10 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 10 13:45:01 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNkfR-0000L7-00; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:44:57 -0700 From: Fmplautus Message-ID: <809094ef.352e707b@aol.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:18:17 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: loopers wishlist and basic training tapes Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 84 Resent-Message-ID: <"QVV_s.A.RAH.MOoL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4955 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:44:57 -0700 X-UIDL: 30ecf2b2bb321a1c399ff435dcc11089 The audio cassette that comes with the EBOW is a great instructional tape, and yes, a model of intelligence, clarity, and human empathy. Would that other manufacturers would follow. Best, the LoOpdOctOrs From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 00:41:08 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 10 13:32:14 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNkSo-0006Tz-00; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:31:54 -0700 Message-ID: <19980410192006.1924.rocketmail@web2.rocketmail.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:20:06 -0700 (PDT) From: "Rev. Doubt-Goat" Subject: Looping show tonight, Friday in Portland, OR To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"kX7KFD.A.pzE.28nL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4953 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:31:54 -0700 X-UIDL: ec51933a5c487208c87a855fe693b7ab 93 The Ascension Conspiracy will be playing a 2 hour show at the Starbucks at NW23rd and NW Hoyt in Portland Oregon tonight, Friday April 23rd from 8pm to 10pm. Sorry for the late notice. Dammit Jim, I'm a musician, not a publicist! The Ascension Conspiracy consists of: 1. The Grand Conspirator Orpheus on Stick, bass, vocals and loops, and 2. The Rev. Doubt-Goat on electric guitar, lap steel and loops, and 3. The Right Honourable Alesis SR-16 on electronic drums and drum loops. Loops provided by JamMan. 93 Rev. Doubt-Goat (Loops for all! A loop in every pot!) _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 00:41:09 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 10 13:35:24 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNkW2-0006u0-00; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:35:14 -0700 From: Trinitymid Message-ID: <900c5fec.352e7fc0@aol.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:23:27 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Esi-4000 sample program Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 62 Resent-Message-ID: <"MKEO5.A.LLF.t_nL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4954 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:35:14 -0700 X-UIDL: 6fa0d11e3213c181258d89edc798ee68 Is there any program (for windows) that you can save and edit esi format samples. If so please tell me. i know sound forge does, but I'm short on cash right now. i'm hoping to fine something freeware. thanks, chris From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 00:41:12 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 10 13:51:41 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNklt-0001BT-00; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:51:37 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980410204537.008f8320@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:45:37 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Dynamic Looping (WAS: Re: Looper Wishlist) Resent-Message-ID: <"O7Z4e.A.rZ.xToL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4956 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:51:37 -0700 X-UIDL: 9bda3d1acb021b4dab999dab2bf8bc6d At 01:47 PM 4/10/98 -0500, you wrote: >Kim, > I've heard from Jamman users who later bought EDPs that the loops tend to >degrade more over time in the EDP...... > >-Chuck > good to see the internet rumor mill continues to churn away.... In the old echoplex software there were some software bugs that caused unwanted feedback reductions in some rare circumstances, typically in stereo setups. The feedback on the slave unit would get stuck slightly below maximum, resulting loop volume dropping slowly over long periods of time. Not very many people experienced that, but it was irritating for those who did. Those problems were fixed last year with the LoopIII v5.0 upgrade. I wouldn't describe feedback volume reductions as "degrade" though. I never heard of anybody having a problem with the loop audio degrading over time. It's difficult to imagine how that could happen, since the basic looping situation is handled by just moving an address pointer back to the loop's startpoint in memory. The data doesn't change... I never heard of loop audio degrading in the jamman either, so I'm curious why someone would think one was degrading "more" than another? Could they be leaving overdub functions turned on, or something like that? kim ________________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 Mpact System Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 00:41:15 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 10 14:48:43 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNlf2-0006pz-00; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:48:37 -0700 From: PMimlitsch Message-ID: <5661f45a.352e9246@aol.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 17:42:28 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, stickwire-l@netcom.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Sat NJ Shore Content-type: text/plain X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 84 Resent-Message-ID: <"0f0VE.A.ryF.uJpL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4957 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:48:37 -0700 X-UIDL: 9ef013989841a788bf23a8165be3454d "Adelante" will be performing at CoffeeTalk (609-368-5282) in the beautiful South Jersey Shore town of Stone Harbour Sat. April 11th. from 8pm to closing. "Adelante" is Paul Mimlitsch (Stick¨/Loops), J. Janetta (Percussion), and M. Robbins (Violin/Viola/Loops). From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 00:41:16 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 10 15:21:38 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNmAv-0002Ns-00; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:21:33 -0700 Message-ID: <352E9959.1C29036@vtx.ch> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 00:12:41 +0200 From: Claude Voit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight Subject: 1 plex function question Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"uuZPLD.A.4lB.VopL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4958 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:21:33 -0700 X-UIDL: b1fb635c359b381463b784645c1e0c9a Hello everybody One questions to the Echoplex users out there For the switch quantize parameters the manual doesnt seem to be updated for the latest version of the software (are there other areas where this happens ?) What are Cyc (cycle?) and Cnf?? and what are they doing? One other to Kim concerning the I/O Gain modification Is an 22.0 K resistor OK as I dont find 22.1 k here ? What is the recommended Wattage ? A+ Claude -- Please correct the reply address by deleting this "----" Veuillez corriger mon adresse pour me rŽpondre en effaant a "----" From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 00:41:31 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 10 20:00:43 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNqX0-0007kC-00; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 20:00:38 -0700 Message-ID: <001201bd64f5$83ec2ba0$4e23dacf@earthlight> Reply-To: "Stephen P. Goodman" From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: Re: loopers wishlist and basic training tapes Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 19:57:03 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"QTzW5B.A.y6G.YwtL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4959 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 20:00:38 -0700 X-UIDL: 33fd84e176af3923eae62c5126d5d9f2 Fmplautus intoned: >The audio cassette that comes with the EBOW is a great instructional tape, and >yes, a model of intelligence, clarity, and human empathy. Would that other >manufacturers would follow. ...Audio cassette? I was given mine back in early '91, and it came with the box and a small pamphlet of instructions. Frankly I find the e-Bow itself an excellent tool, and transparent to whatever purpose I put it to. I play it with both electric and acoustic guitar. ONLY ONE THING I'd change about it in its present one-string form, though. And that's the inexpensive shell for the battery attach, which I ended up replacing myself with a little solder. Which (since I don't have a second one) is as far as I'm going to go in dissecting my little gem. Early on I inquired to its maker as to whether plans were in the works for a multiple string revision of this mighty little fellow. I was informed politely that this is second place to the most-requested e-Bow, that for the bass, but that neither were at that time ('92) in the works. Anything beyond that he was pretty silent about, despite my offering to send my design for their use. If I had the money, I'd buy 5 of them and mount 'em together myself, but hey! Stephen Goodman * It's... The Loop Of The Week! EarthLight Studios * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 00:41:35 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 10 21:01:59 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNrUL-0003Ut-00; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 21:01:57 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980410225403.0068761c@mail.utexas.edu> X-Sender: esker@mail.utexas.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:54:03 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthew hahn Subject: Sampling & synthesizing, a comprehensive link Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"-qOtqB.A.r9C.EquL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4960 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 21:01:57 -0700 X-UIDL: 8ea20fd9c99bcf8bb1f9f85615198efb http://www.synthzone.com/msg/szboard.html just scroll down, discussions also on MIDI, DAW, etc. Researching, me at 11 PM Friday. A lovely college life. Mjh From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 11:21:33 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 11 01:44:21 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNvtc-0007V8-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 01:44:20 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <352E9959.1C29036@vtx.ch> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 01:41:25 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: 1 plex function question Resent-Message-ID: <"uM__xB.A.A1G.fzyL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4961 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 01:44:20 -0700 X-UIDL: e63c3a463d67c648516f6027d11f52a7 At 12:12 AM +0200 4/11/98, Claude Voit wrote: >Hello everybody > >One questions to the Echoplex users out there > >For the switch quantize parameters the manual doesnt seem to be updated >for the latest version of the software (are there other areas where this >happens ?) >What are Cyc (cycle?) and Cnf?? and what are they doing? CYC = loop switch occurs at end of current cycle. nice for keeping things sync'd and rhythmic. CnF = confirm. loop switch occurs when you confirm it. Pressing NextLoop puts you in the "ooo" wait period until you do something to send it to the next loop. The basic "confirm" action is to press the Undo button, which sends you immediately to the next loop. The point of it is that you can more easily decide which loop you are switching to with confirm mode. You can continue to press NextLoop until the display shows the one you want, and then press Undo and go there. If you want to be executing a particular function when you go to the next loop (recording, overdubbing, copying, etc.) you can press those from the "ooo" waiting period. example: you are in loop 1, and want to switch to loop 7 you press Next, the display shows "ooo". Loop 1 continues to play. you keep pressing Next until the display shows "L 7" then you press Undo when want to switch, and you immediately go to loop 7. If you want to have have a function like Record immediately start when you go to Loop 7, press that button instead of Undo. (so when it says "L 7" press Record, and you will immediately be recording in Loop 7. With short loops this mode is helpful, because it gives you more time to set things up before the loop switch. >One other to Kim concerning the I/O Gain modification > >Is an 22.0 K resistor OK as I dont find 22.1 k here ? >What is the recommended Wattage ? > 22k, 1/4 watt, although you could use lower or higher wattage. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Apr 12 23:51:17 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 12 17:34:51 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOXD1-0005Rz-00; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 17:34:51 -0700 Message-ID: <352F336E.40AD@pop.interport.net> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 09:10:10 +0000 From: John + Diane Parada Reply-To: jparada@changenow.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: It's ALIVE! References: <2.2.32.19980409222355.00e292c8@pop.chromatic.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"FWn8IB.A.r0E.C0VM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4988 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 17:34:51 -0700 X-UIDL: ca36e7281e61211678ef18ff10f70ffb UNSUSCRIBE Thanks for the info now i must go play UNSUSCRIBE From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 11:22:03 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 11 11:14:12 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yO4n4-00037J-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 11:14:10 -0700 Posted-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 19:00:48 +0200 (MET DST) Sender: rob@pi.net Message-ID: <352FA1C2.7DC0DEC2@pi.net> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:00:50 +0000 From: Robert van der Kamp X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; Linux 2.0.31 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Plex, Europ and CE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"IA40pB.A.mpC.RJ7L1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4964 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 11:14:10 -0700 X-UIDL: b0959f83f9707b50280b3b8eea103dac Hi, This is probably an oldie, but anyway... I live in the Netherlands and wanny buy a Plex. But these are not available in Europe. My questions are simple: - Can I order one from the States, and where? - Will a US plex work with 220-230V, 50Hz? Thanks for any info, Robert From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 11:21:58 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 11 10:40:49 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yO4Gl-00011C-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:40:47 -0700 From: Marzzz Message-ID: <2be37ec1.352faa2f@aol.com> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 13:36:45 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: AW: Looper Wishlist Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Resent-Message-ID: <"crDJvB.A.4l.dp6L1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4962 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:40:47 -0700 X-UIDL: 39302eec7e97c9f6c690dd640aebd696 In a message dated 4/10/98 1:14:41 PM, Paolo wrote: >How do the MIDI functions of Symbolic Sound's Kyma compare to Max? >Especially for looping? Considering the Kyma is an entirely open-ended system, I think they would be QUITE comparable. I even venture a guess that with enough hardware horesepower the capability of custom designing your own looper in software is significant. A base system is about $4400, I have a strong feeling that when they come out with the next generation Capybara (the hardware component) it will be a must- have. I have been interested in KYMA for a long time.... Marshall From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 11:21:59 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 11 10:43:37 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yO4JS-0001Lm-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:43:34 -0700 From: Marzzz Message-ID: <27bc8911.352faaa6@aol.com> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 13:38:44 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: loopers wishlist and basic training tapes Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Resent-Message-ID: <"0XgojB.A.qy.Mr6L1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4963 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:43:34 -0700 X-UIDL: c2704b06830a04e975b911f116e0ac0f In a message dated 4/10/98 3:43:39 PM, LoopDoctors wrote: >The audio cassette that comes with the EBOW is a great instructional tape, and >yes, a model of intelligence, clarity, and human empathy. Would that other >manufacturers would follow. I understand that the EBow people are about to release a new version, I believe it is the EBow Plus (?). Anyone know/seen anything about it? Marshall From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 11:21:59 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 11 10:45:34 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yO4LO-0001Y6-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:45:34 -0700 X-From_:mmason@faulkcomp.com Sat Apr 11 10:45:31 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net ([207.171.193.21] helo=falcon.slip.net) by ferret.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for loopers-delight@slip.net id 0yO4LL-0001Xd-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:45:31 -0700 Received: from [192.239.16.198] (helo=vienna1-mail-relay1.bbnplanet.com) by falcon.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com id 0yO20v-0004wg-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 08:16:17 -0700 Received: from fsmtp.faulkcomp.com (fsmtp.faulkcomp.com [209.36.226.13]) by vienna1-mail-relay1.bbnplanet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA00089 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 11:15:42 -0400 (EDT) From: mmason@faulkcomp.com Received: from ccMail by fsmtp.faulkcomp.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.11.00.3) id AA892308079; Sat, 11 Apr 98 10:21:21 -0600 Message-Id: <9804118923.AA892308079@fsmtp.faulkcomp.com> X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R8.11.00.3 Old-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 98 10:19:33 -0600 To: Subject: I need unsubscribe info MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: "cc:Mail Note Part" X-Diagnostic: help sent X-Envelope-To: Loopers-Delight Sender: SmartList Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:45:34 -0700 X-UIDL: 00096744ce76de8f3dbe38ccfaefebf1 Could someone please post unsubscribe information. I don't have time to keep up with my reading all the postings. From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 15:38:59 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 11 11:31:27 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yO53m-0004Kv-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 11:31:26 -0700 Message-ID: <352FB680.24FC@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 13:29:20 -0500 From: Mike Artemenko X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NC320 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Looper Wishlist References: <199804092014_MC2-3962-5A75@compuserve.com> <352E0F17.53359B2F@csi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gl4yNB.A.7zD.lZ7L1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4965 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 11:31:26 -0700 X-UIDL: c0d847288a77296847f6d97632653e1a A while back there was mention of a compilation of user contributions to an applications manual for the Echoplex DP. I would find this to be a great help in tying up or twisting all that parameter info in the user manual. I wouldn't really do that to my EDP would I? I hope something like this comes about. Any info is appreciated. Mike From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 15:39:03 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 11 12:00:51 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yO5WD-00065i-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 12:00:49 -0700 Message-Id: <199804111855.OAA29914@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: Soundcards info Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 14:56:22 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"09BvI.A.UdF.I17L1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4966 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 12:00:49 -0700 X-UIDL: d31aa39a4c86dbc9ad4f062e03477349 hello. i forget who, but someone recently was querying on SOUNDCARDS... the Jan 1998 electronic musician mag did a story reviewing a few, also the *new* april?may? keyboard or EM has a story on new soundcards peace. From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 15:39:03 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 11 12:26:03 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yO5uc-0007O9-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 12:26:02 -0700 From: Fmplautus Message-ID: <113fcf24.352fc30e@aol.com> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 15:22:52 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: loopers wishlist and basic training tapes Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 84 Resent-Message-ID: <"u6bs1D.A.BtG.AN8L1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4967 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 12:26:02 -0700 X-UIDL: 85d5252a543f79dc6d07f3e306aade27 We've heard that the EBOW PLUS tracks two strings. Best, the LoOpdOctOrs From ???@??? Sun Apr 12 00:04:23 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 11 17:00:45 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOACR-0005H8-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:00:43 -0700 Message-ID: <352FC483.3BA7@netvigator.com> Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 03:29:07 +0800 From: Alan Reply-To: alanip@netvigator.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: loopers wishlist and basic training tapes References: <27bc8911.352faaa6@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lm3w5D.A.WtE.aOAM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4973 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:00:43 -0700 X-UIDL: 621c473a982bfe3240d7f597d219c5a4 Marzzz wrote: > > I understand that the EBow people are about to release a new version, I > believe it is the EBow Plus (?). Anyone know/seen anything about it? > I've heard that Ebow was showing their new model with an octave switch at latest NAMM show. No delivery schedule has been announced yet. Alan From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 15:39:19 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 11 15:29:17 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yO8lv-00000D-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 15:29:15 -0700 Message-ID: <19980411193443.18194.rocketmail@attach1.rocketmail.com> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 12:34:43 -0700 (PDT) From: "Rev. Doubt-Goat" Subject: Yuppies and Loops, was Re: Looping show tonight, Friday in Portland, OR To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"TaZMWD.A.MCH.S4-L1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4969 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 15:29:15 -0700 X-UIDL: d110728e9178961f36588b22b3690779 93 I apologize to all for the incorrect date in the message. Obviously, I really meant April 10th. Slap on the temporal wrist for me! On the other hand, the gig has raised a few questions for me that I'd like to share with all and sundry. To give an idea of the setting for last nights gig, NW 23rd in Portland, OR is yuppie central. It's a shopping district, full of little fru-fru shops and restraunts. Starbucks is a chain coffee house and suffers from the sterile interior of all such chains. Into this little world set down 2 musicians with piles of electronic gear full of little blinking lights, strange 10-string insturments, wild whammies and machines that go !ping! Have them play strange drones and dissonant loops, interspersed with pop songs influenced by the likes of Bill Nelson and King Crimson, set to medium volume and then stir vigorously for 2 hours. The result? Instant coffee house clearing! The Yuppies couldn't seem to understand what we were playing, the kid's either didn't understand the loops or were bored by the lack of a constant beat, and the old folks thought it was too loud! When we stopped playing, the place quickly filled up. My impression of the night was that we were too weird for everyone who came through, with maybe four or five exceptions. I have new appreciation for what David Torn and Robert Fripp face when they do this stuff. The questions I have are: 1. Is it possible to play in a non-club setting with a mixture of ambient, illbient and pop and have an audience that will understand? 2. Does the music listening public really only want to hear remakes of what they are used to? I play in a standards jazz band as well, and I know we would have had an audience in the same setting. 3. To what extent should the setting determine the performers actions? i.e. is it appropriate to play chamber music in a rock club and noise/performance art in the opera house? 4. To what extent should the audience reactions have an impact on what the performer performs? 5. What are the roles of the performer and audience? Should there even *be* roles? 6. etc. etc. etc. Of course, I have my own ideas about the above questions, so I would like to hear everyone else's opinions! As loopists, I think these questions are one's we should be asking ourselves everytime we perform in a public setting. 93 Rev. Doubt-Goat (Aethetics for all!) ---"Rev. Doubt-Goat" wrote: > > 93 > > The Ascension Conspiracy will be playing a 2 > hour show at the Starbucks at NW23rd and NW Hoyt > in Portland Oregon tonight, Friday April 23rd > from 8pm to 10pm. Sorry for the late notice. > Dammit Jim, I'm a musician, not a publicist! > > The Ascension Conspiracy consists of: > > 1. The Grand Conspirator Orpheus on Stick, bass, > vocals and loops, and > > 2. The Rev. Doubt-Goat on electric guitar, lap > steel and loops, and > > 3. The Right Honourable Alesis SR-16 on > electronic drums and drum loops. > > Loops provided by JamMan. > > 93 > > Rev. Doubt-Goat (Loops for all! A loop in every > pot!) > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 15:39:13 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 11 14:23:09 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yO7ju-0004dL-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 14:23:06 -0700 Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 14:19:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: lowfrqcy@west.net (Ryan Blum) Subject: Re: loopers wishlist and basic training tapes Resent-Message-ID: <"40qp6B.A.BFE.b69L1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4968 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 14:23:06 -0700 X-UIDL: 20cac3e1bf4ecd76a58568e07496f880 >I understand that the EBow people are about to release a new version, I >believe it is the EBow Plus (?). Anyone know/seen anything about it? I know that michael manring, the amazing bassist (who is a CRAZY tapper) has experimented wiht some prototype Ebows that have some sort of exaggerated range of upper harmonics. he also uses 2-3 at a time, getting AMAZING results on his Zon fretless bass...Sounds cool to me....my favorite part of the Ebow is the series of overtones you get when bowing an open string, you don't get the same tones when fingering. Anyway, maybe someone can elaborate. Ryan -- "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." -Albert Einstein From ???@??? Sun Apr 12 00:04:14 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 11 16:05:07 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yO9Kb-000294-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 16:05:05 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980411180424.006b4b1c@mail.utexas.edu> X-Sender: esker@mail.utexas.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:04:24 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthew hahn Subject: Echoplex Question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"6CLeD.A.cwB.Pa_L1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4970 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 16:05:05 -0700 X-UIDL: 857f1b8349f3659da637bb79f7e08dd2 When reading the Echoplex Manual, a section on the record feature is unclear to me. It makes it seem that one has to be play instanteously, therefore forcing use of the foot pedal, when starting loop record. Can you edit a loops beginning and ending points in the parameters? Mjh From ???@??? Sun Apr 12 00:04:27 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 11 17:49:35 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOAxe-0007RM-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:49:30 -0700 Message-ID: <000d01bd659f$01bfe2c0$4b3fdacf@earthlight> Reply-To: "Stephen P. Goodman" From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: Re: Yuppies and Loops Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 16:10:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"fzMcUB.A.4rG.v7AM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4974 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:49:30 -0700 X-UIDL: 8c15d57c18420acc0d23d2153047d195 Rev. Doubt-Goat put forth: >To give an idea of the setting for last nights >gig, NW 23rd in Portland, OR is yuppie central. >It's a shopping district, full of little fru-fru >shops and restraunts. Starbucks is a chain >coffee house and suffers from the sterile >interior of all such chains. The above were of course knowns going into this... I'm curious about the way sounds might bounce off of the kind of wood they've got at the Starbucks' actually. Did you encounter a lot of natural reverb from the setting, or was it muffled instead by the multiple nooks the place might have? >!ping! ... [clapping] I myself have identified more with Douglas Adams' "Teaser" actually, in terms of the mysterious "beep-beep" noises and such. :) >Have them >play strange drones and dissonant loops, Well, this could be a beginning to why il multo emptio, that is, if you think it was semi-inaccessible to them, how far perhaps was the material from where they could have 'gotten it'? Sometimes peppering strangeness and dissonance with familiarity can keep even people like that curious, and therefore still there. On the other hand, if you feel that modifying the existing material you have would be a serious compromise of your work, what about the sheer subversiveness of taking an otherwise-familiar song (well, not too familiar) and peppering THAT with strangeness and dissonance. Sort of like Bobby Goldsboro's "That's My Boy" meets "Psycho", you know? Well, just an idea. >interspersed with pop songs influenced by the >likes of Bill Nelson and King Crimson Which ones? You know, it's funny how Bill Nelson and KC go together, though I was initially attracted to BeBop Deluxe before I was what you'd call a serious Fripp devotee. [looking round for flying vegetables] >1. Is it possible to play in a non-club setting >with a mixture of ambient, illbient and pop and >have an audience that will understand? Yes, there ARE places that do this. Some of them, I suspect, are even after-hours clubs, depending on the nature of the Town You're In Right Now. There used to be a used clothes store down in Venice CA named Mama Pajama's, that hosted a mostly folk, but also other styles, showcase for some years. I'd originally targeted them for a good place to play (though I doubt there's much cash in it frankly). Personally, I'm about to foist myself and work on the Internet Cafe market. I still feel like it's unorganized enough to be interesting, though still perhaps necessary to pass the hat, unless everyone just loves the crap out of you, in which case it's no longer just coffeehouses anymore, is it? >2. Does the music listening public really only >want to hear remakes of what they are used to? >I play in a standards jazz band as well, and I >know we would have had an audience in the same >setting. I would say that the expectations of people expecting to hear Jazz, jamming, improvisation of various blends, and such are by default going to be far more eclectic and 'sophisticated' than the Music Listening Public. Reflecting on something Fripp commented about after his last solo efforts in public places, he said that, "in England you can't GIVE this music away". So he still goes back to do these Small and Efficient Unit shows there. Go figure. >3. To what extent should the setting determine >the performers actions? i.e. is it appropriate >to play chamber music in a rock club and >noise/performance art in the opera house? It's times like these that I regret the loss of thousands of mail messages earlier this year. One of them consisted of a thread of answers to questions Fripp himself posted to the Elephant Talk newsletter, regarding things like: "What is the responsibility of the performer? of the audient? What does the performer have a right to expect of the audience? and vice versa?" Fascinating and mind-expanding stuff on the nature of performing, IMHO - though probably findable via http://www.elephant-talk.com (where the archives are). Some of the responses are predictably Frippesque, but all are illuminating nonetheless. >4. To what extent should the audience reactions >have an impact on what the performer performs? See above, of course. I expect that, unless they start heckling en masse, or throwing non-soft or non-solid things at you, it's okay. I think of it on the level that, if the audience is known to be coming to See Me Play, it's one thing. On the other, if they just knew Some Music would be there, and they're just there for the conversation and cafe, it would seem to me - and this is ONLY my opinion - that it's my responsibility to play for the OWNER, since he let you come in in the first place, on the basis that he wanted you there in the first place. If the owner has you there on the strength of a recording/CD you gave him, make sure it's clear what you'll actually be playing. Even they don't like nasty surprises like, expecting "Sunshine On My Shoulder", and getting "Heroin". What I try to think about in this last regard, is that in those cases, I'm there to enhance the atmosphere that already exists in the place. As an ambient musician I find an awful lot of places where self-control is the rule, lest I both get the audiences' attention in a bad way, with nothing 'better' to take them to after (no reward, I suppose), sort of like Michael J. Fox's onstage guitar routine (the one at the end) in Back To The Future. And there's this big frigging silence. And someone coughs or something. Only for comic relief should one do such a thing. Or revenge, if you're into that kind of business. :) >5. What are the roles of the performer and >audience? Should there even *be* roles? In the spirit of IBM manuals, See #4, which points to #3. Stephen Goodman * It's... The Loop Of The Week! EarthLight Studios * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios From ???@??? Sun Apr 12 00:04:18 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 11 16:33:37 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yO9mB-0003Vj-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 16:33:35 -0700 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sprintmail.com From: "COLLINSCLAN" To: Subject: Re: Yuppies and Loops, was Re: Looping show tonight, Friday in Portland, OR Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 19:26:01 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd65a1$305d41c0$5a08bfa8@0QHC6SIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"o6BcPD.A.ICD.z0_L1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4971 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 16:33:35 -0700 X-UIDL: b7f05d0a2beea3984e49d0bfa82565e6 Hey Rev. Doubt-Goat; I understand your frustration. And i believe i have an answer to your questions. #1 you're gonna have to advertise your shows more to get the smart people to visit you. #2 you will find the people that you're looking for in time, and you will have to let them find you, by way of advertisement. #3 I don't think it is inappropriate to have rock in a theater for classical, I know Ozzy played a theater a couple years back here in Columbus, Ohio. #4 Go check out a King Crimson show and you'll find what you're looking for. #5 NO! #6 It's all in the connections. Jeff Collins collinsclan@sprintmail.com -----Original Message----- From: Rev. Doubt-Goat To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Saturday, April 11, 1998 6:27 PM Subject: Yuppies and Loops, was Re: Looping show tonight, Friday in Portland, OR >93 > >I apologize to all for the incorrect date in the >message. Obviously, I really meant April 10th. >Slap on the temporal wrist for me! > >On the other hand, the gig has raised a few >questions for me that I'd like to share with all >and sundry. > >To give an idea of the setting for last nights >gig, NW 23rd in Portland, OR is yuppie central. >It's a shopping district, full of little fru-fru >shops and restraunts. Starbucks is a chain >coffee house and suffers from the sterile >interior of all such chains. > >Into this little world set down 2 musicians with >piles of electronic gear full of little blinking >lights, strange 10-string insturments, wild >whammies and machines that go !ping! Have them >play strange drones and dissonant loops, >interspersed with pop songs influenced by the >likes of Bill Nelson and King Crimson, set to >medium volume and then stir vigorously for 2 >hours. > >The result? Instant coffee house clearing! The >Yuppies couldn't seem to understand what we were >playing, the kid's either didn't understand the >loops or were bored by the lack of a constant >beat, and the old folks thought it was too loud! >When we stopped playing, the place quickly >filled up. > >My impression of the night was that we were too >weird for everyone who came through, with maybe >four or five exceptions. I have new appreciation >for what David Torn and Robert Fripp face when >they do this stuff. > >The questions I have are: > >1. Is it possible to play in a non-club setting >with a mixture of ambient, illbient and pop and >have an audience that will understand? > >2. Does the music listening public really only >want to hear remakes of what they are used to? >I play in a standards jazz band as well, and I >know we would have had an audience in the same >setting. > >3. To what extent should the setting determine >the performers actions? i.e. is it appropriate >to play chamber music in a rock club and >noise/performance art in the opera house? > >4. To what extent should the audience reactions >have an impact on what the performer performs? > >5. What are the roles of the performer and >audience? Should there even *be* roles? > >6. etc. etc. etc. > >Of course, I have my own ideas about the above >questions, so I would like to hear everyone >else's opinions! As loopists, I think these >questions are one's we should be asking >ourselves everytime we perform in a public >setting. > >93 > >Rev. Doubt-Goat (Aethetics for all!) > >---"Rev. Doubt-Goat" wrote: >> >> 93 >> >> The Ascension Conspiracy will be playing a 2 >> hour show at the Starbucks at NW23rd and NW Hoyt >> in Portland Oregon tonight, Friday April 23rd >> from 8pm to 10pm. Sorry for the late notice. >> Dammit Jim, I'm a musician, not a publicist! >> >> The Ascension Conspiracy consists of: >> >> 1. The Grand Conspirator Orpheus on Stick, bass, >> vocals and loops, and >> >> 2. The Rev. Doubt-Goat on electric guitar, lap >> steel and loops, and >> >> 3. The Right Honourable Alesis SR-16 on >> electronic drums and drum loops. >> >> Loops provided by JamMan. >> >> 93 >> >> Rev. Doubt-Goat (Loops for all! A loop in every >> pot!) >> >_________________________________________________________ >> DO YOU YAHOO!? >> Get your free @yahoo.com address at >http://mail.yahoo.com >> >> >> > >_________________________________________________________ >DO YOU YAHOO!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > From ???@??? Sun Apr 12 00:04:20 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 11 16:37:07 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yO9pa-0003v1-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 16:37:06 -0700 X-Sender: doug@mail.lightlink.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19980411193443.18194.rocketmail@attach1.rocketmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 19:34:48 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Doug Wyatt Subject: Re: Yuppies and Loops Resent-Message-ID: <"1e-mwC.A.jVD.m3_L1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4972 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 16:37:06 -0700 X-UIDL: ce13aaf61d78c7a9f64963fb9087688e I saw a couple of people playing techno music in a similar venue in Silicon Valley, with the same result -- empty coffee shop, although there were lots of kids hanging out in front. At the time I thought it was really weird, but I think it boils down to the following theory: The louder the music, the more people have to like it -- or the scene that surrounds it -- in order to stick around. If it isn't too loud, one can probably play almost anything one wants in a venue where the music isn't the prime attraction. I somehow manage to sit in (so-called) restaurants playing Muzak without feeling like putting all the kids back in the car. I think a lot of people go to cafes expecting to be able to talk, so if the music's too loud to talk without shouting, even if they're halfway open-minded, they may leave. Or, in the case of the kids and the techno music, go outside where they can hear the music in the background while still being able to talk. Don't take it personally :) Doug -- Doug Wyatt doug@sonosphere.com Sonosphere (music and music software) http://www.sonosphere.com/ "Accidental Beauties" CD release: http://www.sonosphere.com/wyatt/ From ???@??? Sun Apr 12 00:04:32 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 11 18:34:19 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOBf0-0002Ck-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:34:18 -0700 Message-Id: <199804120011.UAA03666@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: Drummer on the Doubt-Goat loop gig Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 20:12:01 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xrgbiC.A.0zB.8lBM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4977 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:34:18 -0700 X-UIDL: 79e4e81b576a04f9a492f545cf98c932 > > ---"Rev. Doubt-Goat" wrote: > > > > The Ascension Conspiracy consists of: > > > > 1. The Grand Conspirator Orpheus on Stick, bass, > > vocals and loops, and > > > > 2. The Rev. Doubt-Goat on electric guitar, lap > > steel and loops, and > > > > 3. The Right Honourable Alesis SR-16 on > > electronic drums and drum loops. WOW !! You had Mac Hine on drums..!?? Didn't Mac play on Holdsworth's "Metal Fatique".? :) andre' From ???@??? Sun Apr 12 00:04:31 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 11 17:55:45 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOB3a-0000Og-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:55:38 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980411192524.006a2654@mail.utexas.edu> X-Sender: esker@mail.utexas.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 19:25:24 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthew hahn Subject: Re: Yuppies and Loops In-Reply-To: References: <19980411193443.18194.rocketmail@attach1.rocketmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Wp9VaD.A.OHH.g_AM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4976 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:55:38 -0700 X-UIDL: ca81e67a930011b5e34531d00fdb5def STARBUCKS!!! If you need to say more than what a crime their coffee is and has been, then I suggest you go have a cup of the dark and deleterious brine! And the price, au coutre! And the patrons, sometimes moi, are quite a sight, usually if you have sore eyes. Seattle's Best Coffee, now there's a place to believe in. Go up there and find a good cup o jo, and hell skip that proceed directly to Bauhaus, Paradiso, Six Arms and the Lux (Seattle) From ???@??? Sun Apr 12 00:04:30 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 11 17:53:39 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOB1a-000096-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:53:34 -0700 Message-Id: <199804120045.UAA16477@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: Getting People to gigs. ..and WHAT gigs..? Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 20:46:03 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5usUVB.A.x2G.d9AM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4975 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:53:34 -0700 X-UIDL: d6fcc90e9339ebe2e2ed0e27b5e8d36b > From: Rev. Doubt-Goat > Subject: Yuppies and Loops, was Re: Looping show tonight, Friday in Portland, OR > Into this little world set down 2 musicians with > piles of electronic gear full of little blinking > lights, strange 10-string insturments, wild..... > The result? Instant coffee house clearing! i've been there too !!! > The questions I have are: > > 1. Is it possible to play in a non-club setting > with a mixture of ambient, illbient and pop and > have an audience that will understand? My duo JFK's LSD UFO has had success doing shows at "new age" bookstores and we've also provided the music for an avant garde dance/painting mutimedia thing - it's funny - at that one the power went out - rendering my tons of electronic crap useless - but my partner continued to drum away gently, - the audience thought it was all part of the show and didn't really notice!!! I recommend reaching out to any art galleries in your area, too, we're gonna do an art opening this summer sometime - also look for weird dance companies or other artists who may want to collaborate and have your sound sculptures set the mood.. > > 2. Does the music listening public really only > want to hear remakes of what they are used to? Pretty much so. Someone else spoke of advertizing to the 'right people' or wordz to that effect - even this is tough. we sent out a mailing list, we've even massively flyered for a show after a local crimson gig about 2 yrs back, with feeble or no response. It's tough, people into challenging musaic like we all do - roughly tend to be in that demographic where they don't really go out that much!! and so the show times are another issue. Also - a lot of them have kids - so we need to develop all-ages, open events. We're gonna play the Trenton Avant Garde festival this september - any Jersey/Philly people - get in touch with me if interested - i can tell you where to submit a tape - it's mostly experimental music, but lots of electronics, loops, some poetry too. Perhaps you can look for stuff like this in your state.. call state parks and get an idea when festivals are gonna be, and if they have or would like to have music. Do it for cheap, sell tapes/CDs and get people exposed to this "new" form of music. I try to stay psyched - we playe last sunday nite - on a bill with Bon Lozaga - guitarist/looper from BON, GONG, GONGZILLA, CARYN LIN's band and various other stuff on his LOLO label. You can hear his stuff at http://www.artist-shop.com.. very cool In any event, you'd think this gig had all the right elements: - early start on a sunday night - 8:15pm - cheap - $5.00 - 18 and over admission - we did a sizable mailing list to prog heads/loop heads/ zappa freaks - huge e-mailing - local radio spots on an alternative radio station - local spots on a public/jazz station that plays tons of Bon's 'fusion' stuff - dozens of flyers handed out But - yet - we played to a tiny crowd !!! 20-30 people including sound man, bar owner, bartender, the other 2 bands, etc. Bummer. What does it take to get people out??? - We all had a good time, though, and the bar owner plaedged his upport for "stuff on the edge like this" and will do it again. But i too, would like hints on how we can all get our unique music heard. Are we all tripping ?? Is this self-indulgent crap in a world that wants songs??? I play those too in another project, and i DEFINITELY see the difference when we 'sneak in' a weird little jam. Ah, questions, questions. again - in summary - howza bout: - look out for bookstores, esp. those conducive to meditative, loopy stuff (i know - that's not all you do, but it's a foot in the door) - find public ways of showing people what you do - look for cool opening gigs, perhaps a 30 min set opening for a captive audience is better than having a whole nite -playing to 7 people..??! - get your stuff to a local college or public radio station, esp. one with a trippy radio show - forget everything i've said and try something that works!!!! Peace, and Loop away, Andre' east From ???@??? Sun Apr 12 00:04:33 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 11 18:39:55 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOBkP-0002pS-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:39:53 -0700 Message-ID: <002501bd65b3$58afa7a0$6223dacf@earthlight> Reply-To: "Stephen P. Goodman" From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: Re: Yuppies and Loops Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:35:57 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"wjL6yD.A.ZQC.RqBM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4978 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:39:53 -0700 X-UIDL: b07ca4c98f22fc744bc9331af710005b Some additional thoughts on this. What does everyone think of the home-town tactic, so to speak, of getting friends into the place in addition to the others that may show up? I've gone to more than a couple of friends' gigs to aid in "filling the place up" so the owner'll ask 'em back. Hey, publicity isn't just blatant, sometimes all it has to be is implied, eh? Doug Wyatt said: >The louder the music, the more people have to like it -- or the scene that >surrounds it -- in order to stick around. Mind you, it's a leap of faith sometimes, but putting ambient stuff through a good distributed PA (Buster's in Pasadena has two floors, as such), which doesn't have to be pants-rattling in order to be more-than-listenable. >I think a lot of people go to cafes expecting to be able to talk, so if the >music's too loud to talk without shouting, even if they're halfway >open-minded, they may leave. Or, in the case of the kids and the techno >music, go outside where they can hear the music in the background while >still being able to talk. The thing is, if they go outside, they're not paying customers. I wondered some time ago whether there would be an equivalent to "Louie, Louie" in the ambient world, that coffeehouse owners would always want us to play, which would magically cause everyone to want to drink more coffee. Or has this happened already up in Seattle? :) Stephen Goodman * It's... The Loop Of The Week! EarthLight Studios * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios From ???@??? Sun Apr 12 00:04:34 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 11 18:58:41 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOC2a-0003oU-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:58:40 -0700 Message-ID: <35302100.4A0C@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 19:03:43 -0700 From: Andre LaFosse Reply-To: altruist@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Yuppies and Loops References: <19980411193443.18194.rocketmail@attach1.rocketmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"HnEFdB.A.PUD.18BM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4979 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:58:40 -0700 X-UIDL: 11434d3223b7a65986bf9c865524de5e Rev. Doubt-Goat wrote: > The questions I have are: > > 1. Is it possible to play in a non-club setting > with a mixture of ambient, illbient and pop and > have an audience that will understand? One point I've got to make right off the bat: Any musician who is performaing music is basically castingÊthemselves in the role of a guide. If you're playing music for people, then you're essentially entering into a situation where the audience is looking for you to take them *somewhere*. But before any listener can be taken somewhere, the musicians themselves need some sort of clarity in terms of where they're trying to go. If you don't know what you're trying to do, or how you're going to try and go about doing it, you can't be too surprised if you don't wind up going anywhere, and you certainly can't be disappointed if you don't take anyone with you. So if you're worried about the *audience* understanding what you're doing, you've first got to ask yourself, "Do *I* understand what I'm doing?" This does *not* mean that free-improv, abstract, avante-garde, or otherwise experimental music is incapable of commanding attention. "Knowing what you're doing" in the sense that I'm talking about isn't about playing carefully-rehearsed compositions, or having a fixed notion of what the music is supposed to sound like before you play it. It's about having an understanding of the way that you're approaching your music, and an awareness of whatever happens to be transpiring at any given time in the music, coupled with the ability to *respond* to that in a musically sensitive manner that can allow you to navigate the course of whatever path you wind up on. I absolutely feel that too often, musicians in non-mainstream or experimental realms, who are unable to elicit a favorable response from listeners, automatically assume that whatever they were doing was too "sophisticated," or "forward-thinking," or just plain "good" for the "uncultured masses," when in fact they could very well have been asking their listeners to try and glean meaning from the sonic equivalent of a train wreck. This is in *no way* a statement that you were necessarily guilty of this syndrome. Not having heard any of your music, or the performance you describe, I can't make a judgement like that. But anyone who's making musicÊfor other people to listen to (which in my reasoning includes anyone who performs in public or releases a recording) needs to remember that you can't expect people to follow what you're doing if you can't follow it yourself. > 2. Does the music listening public really only > want to hear remakes of what they are used to? > I play in a standards jazz band as well, and I > know we would have had an audience in the same > setting. I think you've got to realize that the mainstream segment of any audience is going to be familiar principally with whatever happens to be the dominant mainstream music at that time. A lot of people who have spent a substantial amount of their lives listening to a certain type of music have trouble with different styles because they don't necessarily know how to listen to different sorts of music. If somebody whose listening runs the gamut from Barbra Streisand to Yanni to Kenny G is exposed to Photek or Aphex Twin, they're probably going to have a problem, because they're being exposed to music that operates along very different principles. Also be aware than most people's exposure to music comes via mainstream channels, i.e. commercial radio and television, Hollywood cinema, chain retail record stores, and magazines like _Rolling Stone_. A lot of people don't have the time, inclination, or resources to educate themselves about music that falls underneath the mainstream radar. A lot of people who *would* like to educate themselves about this music don't know where to begin. Thirdly, realize that those of us who *are* attuned to more underground musics are going to have our own set of expectations and ideas about where to seek those sorts of musics out. If I want to buy a Squarepusher album, I won't go to Sam Goody. And if I'm looking for illbient/pop performances in town, I won't likely be skimming the paper for Starbucks ads. If you want to try and find an audience that is willing (and maybe able) to give your music a try, then you should get an understanding of the best avenues towards making those people aware of what you do. Having (or lacking) this understanding is one reason why major-label pop stars often end up owning their record comapnies several hundred thousand dollars, while some home-studio producers can release records on small independent labels and then buy sports cars with the profits. This all boils down to the fact that different music operates along different principles, and needs to be approached and listened to in different ways. Getting people to make the transition isn't easy, and if you're going to try and change the way they're listening, you should also try and present something that's worth listening to! Here's a not-at-all brief anecdote which might shed some more light on what I'm talking about: At the end of 1997, I did four performances at an LA-based localle. The place billed itself largely as an experimental music performance venue, coupled with an art gallery, rare CD and book resource, and restaurant. It quickly became apparent to me, however, that the main thrust of the venue was towards being a restaurant first and foremost (and, in a rather ironic twist, one which is prohibitively expensive for the vast majority of the musicians who are represented there, either as live performers or as recording artists). The manager of the club made it abundantly clear that he wanted the primary appeal of the place to be as a restaurant, with the music more of a background, atmospheric element, and that he would definitely prefer to err on the side of having the music fall by the wayside. (Strangely enough, the vanue continues to this day to have itself listed in the music club section of the local papers, rather than in the restaurant section). Paradoxically, the musicians, who are designated to being a background element in the environment, recieve no fixed pay for their role, but rather are offered two-thirds of the door cover (the other one-third going to the soundman, itself a highly dubious arrangement). The problem here is that people who come to eat dinner there don't pay a cover charge, yet people who *do* come to hear the music might well find themselves unable to properly hear the music due to its subserviant role. Such was the case during my second-to-last performance there, wherein the sole person who had come to hear me pay -- who, as it happens, had not had to pay a door charge -- asked me if he could get a tape of the show afterwards, as he had been unable to hear much of the music from his vantage point of approximately eight feet in front of the stage. The soundman (who in any event had been deprived of his night's pay of $1.00 by the door person's failure to collect a cover fee) had spent the entirety of my performance behind the counter in the kitchen as a cook. The only adjustments made to my sound from out front were from the manager, who turned me down at a point when there were no actual people dining, and subsequently turned me back up when I went offstage and mentioned that I couldn't hear what I was playing. The responses I tended to get from the dining clientelle there (who were almost uniformly affluent, privileged, and not at all the sort of audience that would ordinarily frequent an experimental music show) generally followed a consistent course, starting with amusement and pleasant surprise at this fellow on stage with a guitar making all these strange noises, which gradually gave way to visible disdain for the noises emanating forth from the speakers while they tried to carry on conversation over their gourmet meals. A nasty sort of Catch-22 tended to develop, wherein my already abstract music would set the people on edge; in response to this, my music got more confrontational and challenging. Not a good quality for dinner music. The last show I did there was as the opening act for a guitar loop-based artist who I had referred to the club, who was in the middle of a four-month residency (and who continues to this day to perform there on a regular basis). My set at the beginning (which took place before cover started to be collected) was my "standard" (for that place, anyway) fare, which met with a predictable response; at one point I saw an older couple stare at me for a moment before shaking their heads in bewilderment and disgust, and walking out of the door. The main set by the headliner was clearly more appropriate to the situation. It wasn't as confrontational; it had little if any dissonance or clash; and the guest Stick player that night, who did a number of solo pieces, was clearly the audience's favorite. His own music was very inviting, soothing stuff (sort of in a New Age/Windham Hill vein), which blended into the dinner atmosphere quite seamlessly. Several of his pieces, both solo and with the main performer, were greeted by pronouced applause at the end. Later on in the headliner's set, I was invited back onstage to do some joint improvisation. Since there was already a lot of electronic sound flying around, I decided to play "straight" guitar in a more traditional manner (i.e. melodies, scales, and other such bits of arcana). The music wound up settling into what seemed like a very unassuming, approachable vein, and the change in the audience was clear. At one point I glanced up, and some of the patrons were actually *listening to the music*, smiling and nodding their heads. In spite of the small victory, that gig was the last I ever heard from the management of the club, which is fine with me. I don't see what I do as ambient or background music; I found myself unable and unwilling to adapt what I do to fit into the environment there, and if that's what the club needs in order to function, they're better off not booking someone like myself, and I'm better off seeking alternative outlets for performance. > 3. To what extent should the setting determine > the performers actions? i.e. is it appropriate > to play chamber music in a rock club and > noise/performance art in the opera house? This is a bit of an extension of the first question. I think that any performance has to take into account the environment that it's happening in, and then try to figure out what connection, if any, can be made then and there. If you basically have one fundamental type of musical statement that you churn out regardless of the environment, then it's a bit like have one stock answer that you recite from memory, regardless of what the question is -- and regardless of how relevant to that question the answer might be. So if you're going into a Starbucks in an affluent area to play illbient music, you've got to think about some things: What sort of situation am I entering into, and more importantly, what do I hope to accomplish by bringing my music into this situation? What is your motivation for doing this? What is it about your music that you hope or expect to translate into this venue? > 4. To what extent should the audience reactions > have an impact on what the performer performs? Again, this has everything to do with the situation you're in, and what you expect to get out of it. To carry over from the last question: if you're performing for an audience that came specifically to hear your music, that's a vastly different situation than if you're playing music in the background of an environment filled with people who would be there regardless of whether or not you were present. So if you're in the middle of a coffeehouse, and you find that everybody is getting driven out by your presence there, you have to ask yourself if it's more important for you to do your thing, regardless of the impact that it's having on other people, or if you're going to try and win your potential audience over by finding a way of making what you do translate into something they're more receptive to. An advocate of the first option would probably justify it in the name of art for art's sake and the musician sticking to his guns, without compromise, regardless of the scorn or disdain heaped upon him. Someone arguing the second choice might raise the idea that a musician who plops down in the middle of a mainstream coffe shop and starts playing experimental or abstract music is potentially creating an intrusion into the normal workings of that environment, and has to be prepared to either deal with the consequences of doing so, or else try to see how far these two otherwise disparate elements might be bent towards one another. Think about this: What sort of reception do you think Celine Dion would get if she performed at New York's Knitting Factory, or if Michael Bolton did a surprise gig at Spaceland in LA, or if Puff Daddy crashed Beanbender's in Berkley? > 5. What are the roles of the performer and > audience? Should there even *be* roles? Robert Fripp (everyone's favorite around these parts) has probably spent more time philosophizing about the audience/performer relationship over the last decade than he's actually spent being a performer in front of an audience, and has all manner of things to say on this subject. I won't delve into the lengthy and highly philosophical ideas therein, but I will say this: If you're a musician, and you're making music in front of people, at some point you've got to ask yourself *why* you're doing this. If you just want to make art for art's sake, and don't give a damn about what people think about it, then more power to you. But if you go to the trouble of actually setting up a performance, booking a time and place, setting up instrumentation and equipment (particularly the gargantuan amount of technology that many loopists tend to use on a regular basis) in a place specifically designated for your performance, and then start playing in front of people, then you've *got* to at least consider what it is that you're trying to do by taking your music and presenting it in front of other people. I would offer forth the notion that a musician who's playing in public is inviting whoever happens to be there to listen to what they're doing. This being the case, the musician then has to deal with the same issue I've been coming back to over and over in this post: What am I trying to accomplish here, and how can I accomplish it? > 6. etc. etc. etc. See above. --Andre LaFosse From ???@??? Sun Apr 12 00:04:38 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 11 21:36:01 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOEUo-0002qp-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 21:35:58 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980411223201.0069b170@mail.utexas.edu> X-Sender: esker@mail.utexas.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 22:32:01 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthew hahn Subject: Re: Yuppies and Loops, was Re: Looping show tonight, Friday in Portland, OR In-Reply-To: <19980411193443.18194.rocketmail@attach1.rocketmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Psq2fB.A.yaC.PQEM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4980 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 21:35:58 -0700 X-UIDL: 10a51059d07e9c4c37be7b224900e18a One thing I have noticed is that when people playing avant garde music turn up levels, in a coffeehaus, it is the best interest to be having people come there who know you. Then you can see if the "rubberneck" syndrome applies to music. Domino theory, etc. At a coffeehaus one goes for any number of reasons, at Starbucks, aka not a coffeehaus, one goes to sit on ones derriere and bring "armchair philosophy" into this Neo-Victorian age. So of course they would like to hear themselves talk, not necessarily each other, and so vicariously "shoot the breeze". If you happen to add more output, than the mundane bright buorgeousie existence of said "venue", i.e., passing above their expressionless yet oh so bright voices, please watch for lumbering bodies out the commode of Starbucks. Tom Waits would say: I pray you pass by or pass down volume mack, donna go dere, dey's a bit narra. Mjh From ???@??? Sun Apr 12 01:26:25 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 12 00:28:26 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOHBh-0000s2-00; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 00:28:25 -0700 Reply-To: From: "Javier Miranda V." To: Subject: RE: Yuppies and Loops - Re: Looping show -- Comments Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 22:54:14 -0700 Message-ID: <000a01bd65d8$3e9782a0$9b849bd0@electra> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <19980411193443.18194.rocketmail@attach1.rocketmail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"2YyxaD.A.yn.TyGM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4981 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 00:28:25 -0700 X-UIDL: 5bd1650cb80c10a4009b39d02a550837 I'd like to comment on the questions posed by Dr. Doubt -Goat from his band's concert at a Starbucks in Yuppie Central, Portland, Oregon. I played concerts in NYC with an Electro Harmonix 16-sec. Digital Delay and other EH goodies back in the early 80s, and I have pondered these questions for many years, hence I feel I can add something to the conversation -- which I love by the way; I have been reading the list for a while, singing birds and all. 1. Is it possible to play in a non-club setting with a mixture of ambient, illbient and pop and have an audience that will understand? >> IMHO, the audience's understanding is such a Holy Grail. What makes this up? Is it school education? Is it the positive open-minded attitude? How does that come about? I am convinced that children raised on U.S. television and Hollywood movies cannot appreciate "newness," innovation. They've been conditioned for the expected, the "sweets." Any bitterness prompts them for the remote. I understand that in Europe people are more appreciative of outlandish artistic efforts, and will listen to you, to see what you have to say. They might even find it inspiring and have you come back. So, do you have to stand up and explain what you are going to do, where you're coming from, etc.? Must there be some preceding hype, radio interviews, posters glued on walls, etc., for people to "want" to listen to you? Audience acceptance of such a gig as yours hinges, I think, on the awareness of your intentions. I've been to many Fripp performances where I felt disconnected -- I like to know what Fripp is thinking about, what he's been reading, what musical experiments he's been doing the past year, etc., and from that get a perspective on where he's "going" that night of the concert -- makes all the difference for me. I also believe this applies to people like Ace of Base and the latest techno stuff. Fans find it more interesting. How does that translate for us the unknowns? How can we make them feel connected if they don't know us? Do we even need them to feel connected? I mean, does it make a difference for Fripp if I'm connected? I wouldn't bet either way, by the way. 2. Does the music-listening public really only want to hear remakes of what they are used to? I play in a standards jazz band as well, and I know we would have had an audience in the same setting. >> Well, who were you playing for? I play my tapes to all kinds of people. I've got friends who are into James Taylor, Elton John, etc., who make weird faces at my music. Other friends into Yes, Tangerine Dream, etc., their faces brighten up -- it's very cool to see that. I would like to know who are the people who frequent a spot before committing to playing loops for them. Scary: Play loops for country-music cowboys. People who go to a concert hall have different intentions from people who go to Starbucks, that's for sure. Same effect as when you play Fripp or Crimson at a party in your place -- you're bound to alienate some people. However, invariably, they like my Eno ambient CDs, and ask who's that, etc. I have other quiet CDs like that that people like. There's a great deal of reading about the therapeutic effects of music, going all the way back to Pythagoras (who happened to hate brass, saying they were loud and crass; he loved strings). In my experience, I found that people can get hooked if my loops are harmonious, meditative, quiet, and they will pay attention then. I've often wondered about playing at a hospital and see what effects I can get. Maybe this year I'll get the nerves to do it. I had splendid experiences playing at a spiritual center in NYC years ago. 3. To what extent should the setting determine the performers actions? i.e. is it appropriate to play chamber music in a rock club and noise/performance art in the opera house? >> I would repeat myself as in my comment to Question 2, except to add that we might consider the audience's intentions -- what can you calculate are the odds for what they are looking to hear that night? How could you "persuade" them to hear you? There is a certain measure of focused concentration -- or outright indifference -- in people's attitudes towards music listening. Are you providing background for their conversation at a club, or are you playing to their full awareness at a concert hall? Then there' s the matter of party music -- when everybody gets on the groove because they recognise the tune, and they love it, and they even start "snaking" around the hall dancing. I do not believe it would ever happen that you could get this reaction from people by playing a "new" tune, something they've never heard before -- include me in there. (But I wouldn't bet on it; anything can happen.) There is a certain measure of knowing the tune because of the way it's bonded to our memories, to who we are. I cannot listen to "Spirit in the Sky" by Norman Greenbaum and not feel like I'm 10 years old again and dancing at some party with the other kids... It's burned in my brain that way. This recognition factor is very important for an audience to do without intentionally when preparing to listen to loopers like you or me play. It should be part of the "contract." 4. To what extent should the audience reactions have an impact on what the performer performs? >> This is a very good question. Should I start crying because they hate what I'm doing, or should I stoically continue until they bend their wills? Who are we playing *for* anyway? Are we playing for them, really? Shouldn't we go out and play for the sake of the art alone, for the development of our skills and the further expression of our creativity? Why are we creative? Why do we derive importance from the approval we would get from an audience? What important relationship does that have directly with our music? Since we are treading on relatively new grounds here with our loops, John Cage's efforts from years gone by come to mind. All of these "modern contemporary" music (pardon my ignorance of more correct terminology) people, who "prepare" pianos with steel rods and other things stuck on the strings, and in general, some people say they desecrate the classical instruments, all of these people must deal with a great deal of resistance. We should be more like the Borg, I think: "Resistance is futile." (Love that Seven girl.) (I would have no resistance with her whatsoever...) Zappa taught us all about the audience, as well. He sure got flack. But he kept going. I've often wondered what his motivations were, but then again, one listen to the "Sheik Yer Booty" and it's kind of obvious. I got a tape I recorded of a concert of his in 1982 at the Pier in NYC; we could swap if you'd like to hear it. The dude was joyous! And you couldn't avoid getting joyous with him. Remember how people got so agitated and negative from listening to Stravinsky's "Rite of Spring" way back like 90 years ago. These people were waiting for stuff like Strauss, or Mozart, maybe, who knows? They didn't know how to deal with Stravinsky. Come to think of it, I'd be kind of scared preparing to play music at Starbucks for the yuppies. But in the final analysis, you did well by ploughing ahead and going through the whole two hours. You went ahead with your musical development, and I think that's more important than their walking out on you. Should you change your music for their liking? Did Stravinsky? I think we should focus on doing the best we can. If anything, the only thing that scaled down Stravinsky's works was the lack of income. Here's an extract from an article by one Nicholas Tawa (in the Grolier's Encyclopedia) about the state of modern musicians in the U.S.: "After World War II, atonality or out-and-out serialism characterized the music of Milton Babbitt, George Rochberg, Elliott Carter, and Charles Wuorinen; indeterminacy and fantastic sound production, that of John Cage, Morton Feldman, and Earle Brown. Both groups also introduced electronically processed resonances into some scores. The public accepted none of it. Concurrently, composers more restrained in style took their cue from neoclassicism or romanticism--Copland or Barber--and labored at the other end of the creative spectrum: John La Montaine, Lee Hoiby, Carlisle Floyd, Peter Mennin, Jack Beeson, Benjamin Lees, Ned Rorem, Leonard Bernstein. A variety of independent styles set apart still other composers: Alan Hovhaness with his Armenian cum Renaissance idiom; George Crumb and his atmospheric evocations; La Monte Young, Terry Riley, Philip Glass, Steve Reich, John Adams and their minimalist use of endlessly repeated patterns; and the various eclecticisms of David Del Tredici, John Corigliano, John Harbison, Michael Colgrass, and Ellen Zwilich. By the end of the century there was a growing concern that contemporary art music was about to lose its audience completely. Most composers became engaged in trying to integrate all viable ideas from the past and retaining their creative integrity while winning back the music public." Read "endlessly repeated patterns" as loops? There's a lot of further reading on this question. 5. What are the roles of the performer and audience? Should there even *be* roles? >> This reminds me of that Utopia-band guy, I forget his name, who went on tour with some balls that he would pass around the audience which would trigger his MIDI synths, and this was meant to show how an audience could become part of the music-making process. Apart from inspiring some kids to become engaged with technological music, I doubt he made any imprints on the face of the modern musical landscape. The only roles I know of are the musician as energy generator and the audience as energy consumer, and viceversa. This sounds rather depressingly like an economic equation, and I shouldn't say it, except that it helps me explain how *our culture* views music and musicians. We want to see an exchange of goods in all phases of our lives, and I do not believe this works with art. Things die. Art is eternal. This doesn't mean that there are musicians not wanting this. I am aware of a good many musicians wanting to sell goods. I also know of good artists who create striving for beauty, strength, the unpronounceable. How do other cultures view the relationship we see as audience and performer? What are the other points of view on this? Can cultures be changed? Should we worry about that? Are we products of the times we live in? I believe artists can change the times. Our collective attitudes and values are pretty well expressed, I believe, in a good artist's creation. Our culture, however, is pretty much muddled up and confused. There is too much stuff happening too fast -- at least for me. And we are trying to cope with it by 19th-century or even 17th-century means. We need new perspectives, new languages, new ways of managing our knowledge. But, like the waters of the river after the storm, things clear up later. Years later we declare Bach one of the greatest, when the people of his day couldn't care less for him, the local organist. I am ever so thankful for him to have continued on with his work, to develop it even though he probably didn't feel "successful" enough in his lifetime. And with almost two dozen kids! What if he had said "Screw them, I'll never play for them again"? Would that have qualified as selfish? What is pitch dark for some is bright enough for others. There is an extra amount created when you look at the sum of musicians plus audience. That something extra, the unpronounceable, that's what is important. I want to thank you for this ending up a bit therapeutic for me. I feel renewed and want to go back and kick some ass with my loops. Although my EH 16-sec. Digital Delay hasn't worked in years, I'm now saving up for my new Echoplex next month from a shop in San Rafael. I'm also getting Acid for my Windows machine -- it's gonna be cool... Best regards, Javier Miranda V. Berkeley, Calif. -----Original Message----- From: Rev. Doubt-Goat [mailto:dgoat@rocketmail.com] Sent: Saturday, April 11, 1998 12:35 PM To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Yuppies and Loops, was Re: Looping show tonight, Friday in Portland, OR 93 To give an idea of the setting for last nights gig, NW 23rd in Portland, OR is yuppie central. It's a shopping district, full of little fru-fru shops and restraunts. Starbucks is a chain coffee house and suffers from the sterile interior of all such chains. Into this little world set down 2 musicians with piles of electronic gear full of little blinking lights, strange 10-string insturments, wild whammies and machines that go !ping! Have them play strange drones and dissonant loops, interspersed with pop songs influenced by the likes of Bill Nelson and King Crimson, set to medium volume and then stir vigorously for 2 hours. The result? Instant coffee house clearing! The Yuppies couldn't seem to understand what we were playing, the kid's either didn't understand the loops or were bored by the lack of a constant beat, and the old folks thought it was too loud! When we stopped playing, the place quickly filled up. My impression of the night was that we were too weird for everyone who came through, with maybe four or five exceptions. I have new appreciation for what David Torn and Robert Fripp face when they do this stuff. The questions I have are: 1. Is it possible to play in a non-club setting with a mixture of ambient, illbient and pop and have an audience that will understand? 2. Does the music listening public really only want to hear remakes of what they are used to? I play in a standards jazz band as well, and I know we would have had an audience in the same setting. 3. To what extent should the setting determine the performers actions? i.e. is it appropriate to play chamber music in a rock club and noise/performance art in the opera house? 4. To what extent should the audience reactions have an impact on what the performer performs? 5. What are the roles of the performer and audience? Should there even *be* roles? 6. etc. etc. etc. Of course, I have my own ideas about the above questions, so I would like to hear everyone else's opinions! As loopists, I think these questions are one's we should be asking ourselves everytime we perform in a public setting. From ???@??? Sun Apr 12 02:24:18 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 12 01:31:48 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOIAy-00035Q-00; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 01:31:44 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19980411193443.18194.rocketmail@attach1.rocketmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 01:16:39 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Yuppies and Loops Resent-Message-ID: <"uPpOJ.A.gVC.KrHM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4982 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 01:31:44 -0700 X-UIDL: 779c1439038a770dd0ed0387b9035e33 >1. Is it possible to play in a non-club setting >with a mixture of ambient, illbient and pop and >have an audience that will understand? no idea if any of you are guilty of this, but one thing I often notice about more musiciany, "experimental" types, is that they don't realize that performing is a skill too. What they do on stage other than the music can be pretty dull. It usually takes more than just the music to be entertaining in a live setting, especially if the audience isn't familiar with the music. I've often had the experience of being fully entertained by a *performance* when I either didn't like or didn't understand the music that went with it. Maybe that's part of the key? Take some lessons from some of those dreadful cover band types just on how to be an entertainer? So you might want to explore the stage presence and charisma side of it as a way to draw the audience into what you are doing musically. That might help them understand it as well. Visual activity can do a lot of explaining for you. And if that isn't doing it, maybe you can pause and simply explain it to them with words, stimulate their curiosity and interest, and maybe just make some personal connections with the audience. People are willing to sit around a bit longer if they just like the people on stage as humans..... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Apr 12 02:24:20 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 12 01:32:12 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOIBO-00038D-00; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 01:32:10 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <352FB680.24FC@ix.netcom.com> References: <199804092014_MC2-3962-5A75@compuserve.com> <352E0F17.53359B2F@csi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 01:20:09 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Looper Wishlist Resent-Message-ID: <"ArPZrB.A.6VC.MrHM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4983 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 01:32:10 -0700 X-UIDL: b1ff51d776f448c09222e4908d440e11 At 1:29 PM -0500 4/11/98, Mike Artemenko wrote: >A while back there was mention of a compilation of user contributions to >an applications manual for the Echoplex DP. I would find this to be a >great help in tying up or twisting all that parameter info in the user >manual. I wouldn't really do that to my EDP would I? I hope something >like this comes about. Any info is appreciated. > >Mike I think oberheim was talking about doing something like that, you might want to contact them. I don't know whether they are still pursuing that or not. Of course, there is always the playing tips on the Looper's Delight site, and anybody who wants to contribute more stuff to that is certainly welcome. Indeed, encouraged! That's the point of it right? kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Apr 12 02:24:19 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 12 01:32:00 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOIB9-00036V-00; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 01:31:55 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <352FA1C2.7DC0DEC2@pi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 01:23:58 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Plex, Europ and CE Resent-Message-ID: <"xNf0PD.A.HXC.SrHM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4984 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 01:31:55 -0700 X-UIDL: 95370982d189eefc801b13cb3db8955e >Hi, > >This is probably an oldie, but anyway... >I live in the Netherlands and wanny buy a Plex. >But these are not available in Europe. >My questions are simple: > >- Can I order one from the States, and where? don't know about that one. You might try bananas at large, http://www.bananas.com >- Will a US plex work with 220-230V, 50Hz? yes, there is a switch on the back to allow 220-230V. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Apr 12 02:51:43 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 12 02:35:07 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOJAI-00058V-00; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 02:35:06 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <9804118923.AA892308079@fsmtp.faulkcomp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 02:32:15 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: I need unsubscribe info Resent-Message-ID: <"G75IGD.A.BoE.HpIM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4985 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 02:35:06 -0700 X-UIDL: bc4f86b695ef6ca012a08aa47dc4a41f At 10:45 AM -0700 4/11/98, mmason@faulkcomp.com wrote: > Could someone please post unsubscribe information. I don't have time > to keep up with my reading all the postings. on the website: http://www.annihilist.com/loop/list/LoopList.html kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Apr 12 11:20:23 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 12 06:39:34 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOMyq-0002T7-00; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 06:39:33 -0700 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 14:26:46 +0100 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: babs Subject: Digitech TSR12 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Trial Version 3.03a Resent-Message-ID: <"3aobXC.A.9IC.fOMM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4986 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 06:39:33 -0700 X-UIDL: 13ff9bc7ad7f2fdd730751606a8d2ba2 My old delay finally went to the graveyard of rack units in the sky. So I've been on the lookout for a replacement and found an unused TSR12 in a local music shop for a reasonable price, so is anyone out there using one in their rig or does anyone have any comments on the TSR12? Babs From ???@??? Sun Apr 12 11:20:31 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 12 10:01:30 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOQ8H-0001qI-00; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 10:01:29 -0700 From: bryan.helm@dinosaur.com Message-ID: <9804121054.0FBZW00@dinosaur.com> Organization: The Dinosaur Board X-Mailer: TBBS/TIGER v1.0 Date: Sun, 12 Apr 98 10:54:52 -0700 Subject: Truth via Doubt To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Resent-Message-ID: <"LUIKp.A.JgB.jLPM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4987 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 10:01:29 -0700 X-UIDL: 0015161a4beaba013d4d9a13c2f3ce61 The subtle beauty and grace of good ambient music or the power,exactitude and textural wizardry of great avante garde compositions, is for the most part lost on the masses of folks who constitute the available audience for such work. This has always been the case and always will. To redefine the needs of your marketplace to fit your product is your only hope and it's non-existant, much like the emperor's clothes. In his book "The Frontiers of Meaning" Canadian composer/author Charles Rosen says that "understanding" music is really a question of the listener being "comfortable" with it. Any artist who wrestles with an "alternative" material,style, or media does so first and foremost as a personal crusade. The need to bring this work to a public forum as a measure of it's congruency with commerce, is the chief bastardization of all artisitc intent related to the honest evolution of an art form. The availability and functionality of the electronic devices we use to loop are defined by activities and motives,that favor the corporate rational over the artistic whim in the long run (with all due respect to the industry brains,cogs & moguls who populate this list). So the tools of the trade are few and far between, widely varied in capabilities, and mostly not in current production....the listening public doesn't know the difference between a constantly triggered sample or a closed loop, unless you lip synch poorly to it...and you have to figure out how much personal sacrifice (economical,emotional,etc.) you can really stand to make in the pursuit of some esoteric, ethereal, and estranging art form. Whether it's 100,000 plus CD's sold or gig proceeds(tips) for gas, the current public measure of your work is the least of the clues you'll ever get towards it's true validity. Think of what a gratifying experience it'll be for your decendants when you're finally recognized as a pioneer of late 20th century music, your compositions studied, period effects ensembles formed to perorm your works galaxy wide. Meanwhile even the greats "can't give it away", sometimes...is it any wonder why? Bryan(now deflating my shoes & ego)Helm From ???@??? Sun Apr 12 23:51:21 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 12 19:13:25 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOYkK-0004J5-00; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 19:13:20 -0700 Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 22:07:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Adam Levin To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Thanks! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"6fhpYD.A.xjD.nOXM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4989 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 19:13:20 -0700 X-UIDL: f5b34805301b184e71f3fe6d8e67f48c The Dark Aether Project wants to thank everyone who tuned into our live performance on The Gagliarchives on WBZC 88.9 last night, our hosts Tom Gagliardi and Charlie Nolan, our friends Bill Berends of Mastermind and Scott McGill & Chris Eike of Finneus Gauge for dropping by the studio for moral (and immoral!) support and especially all the nice folks who phoned in with kind words. Come see us this Thursday night at E.J. Bugs at 702 South Broadway Street in Baltimore. -Adam --- "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue, out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one becomes a Hearer." - Chandrakirti T h e D a r k A e t h e r P r o j e c t http://www.ari.net/prog/bands/dap/ From ???@??? Sun Apr 12 23:51:30 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 12 22:08:52 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yObUB-0007Jb-00; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 22:08:51 -0700 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sprintmail.com From: "COLLINSCLAN" To: Subject: looking to buy! Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 01:01:29 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd6699$3821a380$6608bfa8@0QHC6SIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD6677.B1100380" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"vfTioB.A.zmG.H1ZM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4990 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 22:08:51 -0700 X-UIDL: 8ccee48247c6ebca1377cba691d799b1
I am looking to buy an Oberheim Echoplex or perhaps a Lexicon JamMan.
I know the in's and out's and I know that they both work good and that's all that really matters.
I also have a Godin LGX-SA for sale of a price around 1,000. And the price can vary. Especially if you wanna work on a little trade.
It is in perfect condition. Transparent RED with a FLAME maple top (carved). 
Custom Duncan pick-ups and all the other goodies.
Let me know! 
 
Jeff Collins
 
From ???@??? Mon Apr 13 10:02:04 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 13 09:20:48 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOlyR-0000o8-00; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 09:20:47 -0700 Message-ID: <3532305B.79C75A65@intcpi.com> Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 11:33:47 -0400 From: jprice@intcpi.com (John Price) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: andre@monmouth.com CC: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Getting People to gigs. ..and WHAT gigs..? References: <199804120045.UAA16477@shell.monmouth.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"t9HCfD.A.OG.sojM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4991 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 09:20:47 -0700 X-UIDL: 3ef94cac51212dd870a046058151d833 I said somethin to this effect b4 a while bk. Statement: Looping doesnât have a larger audience because its simply tied to artists that donât move a lot of product to a large and mass audiences. Looping still is home to the overly analytical and cerebral types of energy. Those folks do more damge than good to music in any category cause they reduce music to something less than the gifts it can bear. Now There are tons o' people loopin but you still often tend to think of them as cello or flute wielding, or quasi jazz/neo-classical, improvisationalists/guitarists who have always been an acquired tatse. ( though nonetheless an extremely important niche in the bigger pic that reaches across a lot of generes ). I guess Im praising and damning in some ways traditional loopers. Damning The traditionalists type traditionalist for not changing or evolving into areas that they arent usually comfortable with or usually seen as developing and thriving. ( All Based on the assumption that there is such a thang as a trad. looper) Trad. Looping often misses the danger, crudeness and visial stimulation you'd say ( & this is just a very crude examlple for discussions sake ) you could find at like a cock rock show or better yet a Prince show. Only a handful of loopers seem to be doing their thing where theres that Pop Culture element of danger, Funk, trash...sexiness and good ol' ego to it. Anyone and everyone can be moody and edgy but not many loopers aren't sexy looking or have star quality young looks and fresh sounds that are easilly recognizable and embraceable by the masses. Just an observation here ... & not my personal opinion in the slightest. God knows Im an ugly looking thing and my sounds tend to fall into the traditionalist category!! I was just thinking bout this over the weekend an awful lot. You always have to have a need ( a market ) or actively create a need around something or someone who is visable and viable beyond just the conceptual phase of expanding a concept amongst an already sold audience. Im always amazed when posters say gee its amazing what this stuff can do and isnt this and that and so on neat ..and what about this feature of the technology.. great , Huh ??? And it comes down to .. its a shame no one is into this. Most ( not all but most ) loop artists forsake the Pop Culture ego for the "higher ground" and never waver from a fixed perspective of performance and delivery which is often rigid & rightfully uncompromising in principle. I think that devotion often times gets misinterpreted as conceit or moreover its outward perception is one of a certain exclusivity which scares off a lot of folks who may be curious and willing to try or listen to a different perspective. The biggest disadvantage to looping is that Most loopers are still for the most part a largely white/male middle class/age thang that attracts mostly the same to all of its shows. Thats neither good or bad rather its a statement drawn from personal observations. Also Word of mouth wonât bring looping any further than where it currently stands today. Web Posting and Web Broadcasting in RA wont do it either unless its tied to or part of a focused artist and or manufacturerâs or Renowned Venue's Or better yet, a Well Financed Labels's marketing thrust. Organizing can help somewhat but in the end it seems you only have more people with you who are gonna be no better off than before... other than the fact that you are together and have each other as a psychologocal and social/creative means of support. It wouldnât hurt to have someone Mix it up with big or widely recognized people in key mags like musician, Gtr player, or just about anyone of those DnB mags you can get from a local book or record chain. Matthew Sweet endorses Roland products in their local user mag. Maybe a bi monthly or quarterly periodical which is either paper and or web based devoted to looping would help ( from a manufacturers perspective ) Talk to the Music Mag publishers of significance and see if you can get their backing for your affairs/shows in book shops or chains that carry their rags. All you want from the Mags is the Banner/logo and mention of you. Better yet organize a clinic on looping thru Manufactures & Publishers and or a combo of both. Last, Loopers need to reach out to artists that are perhaps on the surface appearing diametrically opposed to their being. Get together with the Tupacs of your community or the dj shadows or the Fresh Aire's or sonic youth's you can find. Step outside of yourself and you will always find a level of strenth and power that was never present in your work b4 (IMHO). From ???@??? Mon Apr 13 10:13:39 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 13 10:05:52 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOmfv-0005R8-00; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 10:05:43 -0700 Message-ID: <025201bd66fd$fc26c440$d1f0ffd0@default> From: "future perfect" To: Subject: Re: Getting People to gigs. ..and WHAT gigs..? Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 13:02:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"IErWN.A.VeE.7SkM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4992 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 10:05:43 -0700 X-UIDL: 46b689c5c93a8e11853421172bb34dcd Forgive my rambles: Theres always a problem finding/keeping gigs for non-mainstream music. However, here in the Tampa Bay area, I tend to get hired just because I do not do standard coffeehouse music ("Brown Eyed Girl", etc...). Also it helps that I have a rather pretty girl who plays flute and sings, while I loop my gtr synth underneath. I have played quite a few 'corporate' coffeehouses, with the bright lights and tiled floors, with your standard yuppie clientele- some like it, most are indifferent, which is a lot worse than openly hating it, at least I get a reaction, and if I can get them to leave, even better. Then after its all over, I have to think, why would I play a place when I KNOW they either won't like it, or they don't care? Hell, in some of these places, Bob Dylan or Van Morrison himself could be playing, and it wouldn't matter. I'd rather sit home and play, at least I won't have to carry all the eqipment. Now, I don't put myself in that kind of position. Its useless to present something in what is obviously the wrong forum. I play privately owned coffeehouses with a great response, interest, etc. Also bookstores (private AND corporate) have been great places to play. Also, here in Florida, there are many small performance spaces that hold maybe 50-100 people. Quite a few art shows too. My advice is to not play a place that you KNOW is gonna suck. Usually, they don't pay all that well, at least not enough to get your next piece of looping gear. I always feel weird when it seem like I'm 'forcing' my art on people. Dave Eichenberger ********************************************************************* 'Future Perfect' - art music - visit our website at: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/8082 From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 00:06:51 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 13 10:59:12 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOnVe-0003C2-00; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 10:59:10 -0700 Message-Id: <199804131753.KAA26452@ns2.vphos.net> From: "Cam" To: Subject: Mixman Studio / Groovemaker Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 10:50:48 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1085 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dPdBQ.A.1YC.CFlM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4993 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 10:59:10 -0700 X-UIDL: c1c693ad3c0db6dc397b468ef01f2687 Hi all... I just joined the list, so I'm sorry if this is material that's already been covered. What I would like to know is whether any of you have tried real time remixing/rearranging software like Groovemaker or Mixman Studio, and what you think about them. I downloaded the demos for both off of the net and they seem pretty cool... any thoughts? -- cam@mail.bulkley.net Visit the official Clockwork Website at: http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Towers/8890/index.html =;-) --|--< remove nospam from email address to reply From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 00:06:53 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 13 11:21:07 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOnqr-0005rz-00; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 11:21:05 -0700 From: NEMOGUIT Message-ID: <34d1af89.353255e0@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 14:13:50 EDT To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: so im not going to get rich playing my loops???? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 81 Resent-Message-ID: <"7sHdwB.A.rtE.UYlM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4994 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 11:21:05 -0700 X-UIDL: d7a34d73a12193a55794cf525ccf8345 who would have thunk that what we do, and that is a question in And of itself, is not quite mainstream. do we do music to drink coffee by? or hide me in a corner and ill keep it low enough so as not to bother the eaters, would hate to ruin someones salad!! i have always wondered, is it the fact that i am so simple that i can be quite happy listening to the loops of the birds and "peepers" and find enjoyment in this. is this simplicity the basis of my love of loops? i have no idea how many people belong to this list, perhaps it is growing by leaps and bounds or perhaps the how to unsubscribe question is some indication of where we are heading. i dont know. nothing i like more than banging a loop into my rang and sitting back and reading the posts of the day. what fun!! this is one of the only places where i find kindred spirits talking about an oh so small aspect of this thing we call music. perhaps i am the only one who likes my music, thAt is a good first step and it keeps me off the streets. i no longer look for external acceptance and i find that i grow more comfortable with that attitude every day. but that could be due to the fact that i am an over-middleaged, funky looking , qusi- intellectual white man!! one last point (thank god) i would really like to hear the LD"s c.ds or any music that you all are creating. ive had no luck getting info for the LD c.d.s and i dont know if any of you share tapes. i often feel like a blind man being told about a painting...............thanks............................michael From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 00:06:56 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 13 11:47:13 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOoG7-0001CX-00; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 11:47:11 -0700 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199804131841.LAA19226@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: so im not going to get rich playing my loops???? To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 11:41:48 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <34d1af89.353255e0@aol.com> from "NEMOGUIT" at Apr 13, 98 02:13:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ODM-t.A.wf.xxlM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4995 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 11:47:11 -0700 X-UIDL: 38ab8d4778f28ea6873ccae2af160ffc If it helps any, I saw a good mix of age groups and ethnicities at Torn's Santa Monica looping gig. I myself am neither Caucasian nor middle-aged. :) A buddy of mine and myself would like to get our own looping band going in San Diego, but we're just in the talking stage. We'll probably do the coffee shop thing. We both have day jobs so making money off gigging is not a concern. Cheers, Paolo Valladolid --------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ---------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 00:07:15 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 13 16:01:26 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOsE5-0005eN-00; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 16:01:21 -0700 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sprintmail.com From: "COLLINSCLAN" To: Subject: Re: so im not going to get rich playing my loops???? Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 15:14:05 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd6710$5395b620$2f08bfa8@0QHC6SIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"_56BFD.A.PrD.9YpM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5004 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 16:01:21 -0700 X-UIDL: 6503a2339b769b7c764d67950a038883 sage----- From: NEMOGUIT To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Date: Monday, April 13, 1998 2:18 PM Subject: so im not going to get rich playing my loops???? >who would have thunk that what we do, and that is a question in And of itself, >is not quite mainstream. do we do music to drink coffee by? or hide me in a >corner and ill keep it low enough so as not to bother the eaters, would hate >to ruin someones salad!! i have always wondered, is it the fact that i am so >simple that i can be quite happy listening to the loops of the birds and >"peepers" and find enjoyment in this. is this simplicity the basis of my love >of loops? >i have no idea how many people belong to this list, perhaps it is growing by >leaps and bounds or perhaps the how to unsubscribe question is some indication >of where we are heading. i dont know. >nothing i like more than banging a loop into my rang and sitting back and >reading the posts of the day. what fun!! >this is one of the only places where i find kindred spirits talking about an >oh so small aspect of this thing we call music. >perhaps i am the only one who likes my music, thAt is a good first step and it >keeps me off the streets. i no longer look for external acceptance and i find >that i grow more comfortable with that attitude every day. but that could be >due to the fact that i am an over-middleaged, funky looking , qusi- >intellectual white man!! >one last point (thank god) i would really like to hear the LD"s c.ds or any >music that you all are creating. ive had no luck getting info for the LD c.d.s >and i dont know if any of you share tapes. i often feel like a blind man being >told about a painting...............thanks............................michael > > From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 00:07:03 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 13 14:41:29 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOqyi-0003UO-00; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 14:41:24 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980413191702.009a5bd0@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 12:17:02 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: so im not going to get rich playing my loops???? Resent-Message-ID: <"j1tuAD.A.IvC.9VoM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4997 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 14:41:24 -0700 X-UIDL: 57aee341f02676071066bd8de51f6a30 At 02:13 PM 4/13/98 EDT, NEMOGUIT wrote: >who would have thunk that what we do, and that is a question in And of itself, >is not quite mainstream. do we do music to drink coffee by? or hide me in a >corner and ill keep it low enough so as not to bother the eaters, would hate >to ruin someones salad!! i have always wondered, is it the fact that i am so >simple that i can be quite happy listening to the loops of the birds and >"peepers" and find enjoyment in this. is this simplicity the basis of my love >of loops? I think we should be careful about assuming that "looping" is an actual genre of music. To me it is more of a technique that could be applied anywhere. (like say, "singing" or "drumming".) What you put into a loop and what you do with the loop will have a lot more to do with the sort of music you end up with, whether it be challenging high-art or danceable party music or bluegrass or whatever, than the loop itself. Certainly, using a real-time looping device will direct you in certain ways, but I imagine that someone like Chet Atkins will end up in a totally different place than someone like Jack Dangers. (both of whom are known to use real-time loopers and still retain their sizable audiences...Chet even won a grammy using his jamman...) *Some people* using real-time loopers are forging into new musical territories and making difficult music that drives people out of coffee shops. I think that has more to do with things like their actual music, their skill as entertainers, their relationship with a given audience, their choice of venue, and the newness/comfort issue than it does with the presence of a looping device somewhere in the process. A looper is just a tool used for particular techniques that you can apply as you like. Whether you succeed or not will have a lot more to do with you and your music than with the tool or the techniques..... kim _______________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 Mpact Systems Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 00:06:56 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 13 12:30:01 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOovR-0005W1-00; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 12:29:53 -0700 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sprintmail.com From: "COLLINSCLAN" To: Subject: Re: so im not going to get rich playing my loops. Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 15:18:49 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd6710$fd1b3bc0$2f08bfa8@0QHC6SIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"W75WL.A.ndE.FZmM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4996 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 12:29:53 -0700 X-UIDL: c447f83bd3920802ceb689e60227e483 Michael, I totally agree with what you're saying, your spirit has definately grown into it's own entity. And you're feeling at peace with the world... ain't nothing better than that bro. Have you tried listening to La Monte Young's music. Music of Justly Intonated drones. It's very beautiful, and he's been doing this kind of stuff since the fifties. Keep Looping, Jeff Collins collinsclan@sprintmail.com -----Original Message----- From: NEMOGUIT To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Date: Monday, April 13, 1998 2:18 PM Subject: so im not going to get rich playing my loops???? >who would have thunk that what we do, and that is a question in And of itself, >is not quite mainstream. do we do music to drink coffee by? or hide me in a >corner and ill keep it low enough so as not to bother the eaters, would hate >to ruin someones salad!! i have always wondered, is it the fact that i am so >simple that i can be quite happy listening to the loops of the birds and >"peepers" and find enjoyment in this. is this simplicity the basis of my love >of loops? >i have no idea how many people belong to this list, perhaps it is growing by >leaps and bounds or perhaps the how to unsubscribe question is some indication >of where we are heading. i dont know. >nothing i like more than banging a loop into my rang and sitting back and >reading the posts of the day. what fun!! >this is one of the only places where i find kindred spirits talking about an >oh so small aspect of this thing we call music. >perhaps i am the only one who likes my music, thAt is a good first step and it >keeps me off the streets. i no longer look for external acceptance and i find >that i grow more comfortable with that attitude every day. but that could be >due to the fact that i am an over-middleaged, funky looking , qusi- >intellectual white man!! >one last point (thank god) i would really like to hear the LD"s c.ds or any >music that you all are creating. ive had no luck getting info for the LD c.d.s >and i dont know if any of you share tapes. i often feel like a blind man being >told about a painting...............thanks............................michael > > From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 00:07:05 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 13 14:51:43 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOr8d-0004rm-00; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 14:51:39 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980413192834.00b00290@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 12:28:34 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Mixman Studio / Groovemaker Resent-Message-ID: <"VFQy6.A.ZfD.sboM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4998 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 14:51:39 -0700 X-UIDL: 66abec6c5978c551962cb0d3fed9535b At 10:50 AM 4/13/98 -0700, Cam wrote: >Hi all... >I just joined the list, so I'm sorry if this is material that's already >been covered. What I would like to know is whether any of you have tried >real time remixing/rearranging software like Groovemaker or Mixman Studio, >and what you think about them. I downloaded the demos for both off of the >net and they seem pretty cool... any thoughts? what's the website? I'd like to check those out. kim _______________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 Mpact Systems Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 00:07:05 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 13 14:52:53 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOr9k-00050z-00; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 14:52:48 -0700 Posted-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 23:44:32 +0200 (MET DST) Sender: rob@pi.net Message-ID: <35328743.7A4E77B8@pi.net> Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 21:44:35 +0000 From: Robert van der Kamp X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; Linux 2.0.31 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Where to buy a Plex for international shipping? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"HZML-B.A.bvD.hdoM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4999 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 14:52:48 -0700 X-UIDL: f78d35c321796e8e240aba33fb6d831c Hi, I wonder if any of you loopers can point me a retailer that sells the Plex for international shipping to the Netherlands. Thanks, Robert From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 00:07:09 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 13 15:09:44 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOrQ3-00075h-00; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 15:09:39 -0700 Message-Id: <199804132202.PAA20587@ns2.vphos.net> From: "Cam" To: Subject: Re: Mixman Studio / Groovemaker Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 15:04:47 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1085 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"eNC2lB.A.D1F.fuoM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5000 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 15:09:39 -0700 X-UIDL: a354717fdca8163b7dc143fb36240d3e > At 10:50 AM 4/13/98 -0700, Cam wrote: > >Hi all... > >I just joined the list, so I'm sorry if this is material that's already > >been covered. What I would like to know is whether any of you have tried > >real time remixing/rearranging software like Groovemaker or Mixman Studio, > >and what you think about them. I downloaded the demos for both off of the > >net and they seem pretty cool... any thoughts? > > what's the website? I'd like to check those out. > > kim Mixman Studio can be found at www.mixman.com and Groovemaker can be found at www.ikmultimedia.com. -- cam@mail.bulkley.net Visit the official Clockwork Website at: http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Towers/8890/index.html =;-) --|--< remove nospam from email address to reply From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 00:07:13 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 13 15:48:54 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOs1v-0003xY-00; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 15:48:47 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980413223555.00ac3988@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 15:35:55 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Mixman Studio / Groovemaker Resent-Message-ID: <"raI6cB.A.wdC.EQpM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5002 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 15:48:47 -0700 X-UIDL: e57cf2d537c10efcaa50ff830d67ef15 At 03:04 PM 4/13/98 -0700, Cam wrote: >> >Hi all... >> >I just joined the list, so I'm sorry if this is material that's already >> >been covered. What I would like to know is whether any of you have >tried >> >real time remixing/rearranging software like Groovemaker or Mixman >Studio, >> >and what you think about them. I downloaded the demos for both off of >the >> >net and they seem pretty cool... any thoughts? >> >> what's the website? I'd like to check those out. >> >> kim > >Mixman Studio can be found at www.mixman.com and Groovemaker can be found >at www.ikmultimedia.com. They both sort of look like toys. Not a bad thing: toys are fun. However, I couldn't shake the idea that this was a new form of karaoke.....:-) kim _______________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 Mpact Systems Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 00:07:10 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 13 15:45:05 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOryD-0003PZ-00; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 15:44:57 -0700 From: TritoneDW Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 18:36:45 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Hackles have been raised! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 56 Resent-Message-ID: <"o3vNuB.A.bQC.lOpM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5001 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 15:44:57 -0700 X-UIDL: a52a5f65f39fa1953862ca96c6eef60e About this statement: << Looping still is home to the overly analytical and cerebral types of energy. Those folks do more damge than good to music in any category cause they reduce music to something less than the gifts it can bear. >> Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but are you saying that the intellect has no place in music of any type? Are you saying that the use of analytical and intellectual skills actually make music worse? It really irks me when people use terms like "analytical" and "academic" and "intellectual" in a perjorative way. Can music only "bear gifts" when it has been written to the lowest common denominator? Is Madonna better that Bach because she's less intellectual? I enjoy a lot of different kinds of music, from folk traditions to avant garde contemporary music, and I would never presume to insult anyone's music because it's too smart, or not smart enough. As an artist, I endeavor to bring my entire self to my work--my intellect, my heart, my soul. I don't think striving to make intelligent music takes away from my work in any way. In fact, I think it can only help. Having a brain doesn't preclude having a heart, does it? Am I the only one here who feels this way? Drew Wheeler From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 00:07:14 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 13 16:00:42 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOsDH-0005XS-00; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 16:00:31 -0700 Message-ID: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD02CA090@migarexch01.maritz.com> From: "Liebig, Steuart A." To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Yuppies and Loops, was Re: Looping show tonight, Friday in Po rtland, OR Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 17:45:14 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Resent-Message-ID: <"cy0ZqB.A.BlD.PYpM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5003 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 16:00:31 -0700 X-UIDL: cf5d5626de75d71d6e8a5e29a1c4e573 Well, I'm chiming in on this fairly late . . . I figure that if you're playing "non-mainstream" music, you pretty much need to figure that the majority of the population isn't going to "be ready for it." They may like it over time, or they may not. But if they haven't heard anything like what you're doing before, there's going to be a little bit of a "learning curve." (I don't mean this to sound self-congratulatory at all. I think that it's just common sense. I wasn't particulary ready for Circle the first time I heard 'em.) Some will "not understand" it - yet wish to investigate; some will just view it as an aberration. I personally think that too much modification of your vision to an "audience" is a potentially destructive and unhappy move . . . and it often doesn't get you what you think that you want anyway. That being said, I know that there is a little bit of a scene for experimental music in Portland and Albany (?). My suggestion would be to try and hook up with that scene and help expand and soldify it. Then maybe move up and down the West Coast to Seattle, San Francisco, LA, etc., as time and finances permit. Don't give up your day job. The hooking up with a scene tends to ghettoize, but I'm not really sure how else to deal with the fact of "unappreciative" mainstream audiences. At least you'd be "preaching to the converted" . . . or at least like minds. The way I figure it, we're basically in the guerilla war mode. No large scale operations for most of on this list. Go do what you do, melt back into the surrounding countryside. Enjoy what you do. Try to be happy doing it. On a (slightly) tangental train of thought. Has anyone out there read N. Slonimsky's "Lexicon of Musical Invective"? A sometimes scary but mostly hilarious compendium of critic's (mostly scathing) reviews of such slackers as Beethoven, Liszt, Stravinsky, etc. From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 00:07:15 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 13 16:04:52 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOsHJ-00066i-00; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 16:04:41 -0700 Message-ID: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD02CA092@migarexch01.maritz.com> From: "Liebig, Steuart A." To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Hackles have been raised! Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 17:51:32 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Resent-Message-ID: <"my1iHC.A.dWE.6dpM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5005 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 16:04:41 -0700 X-UIDL: 36203f0810c62359956b2bae79d08627 > ---------- > From: TritoneDW > Reply To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Sent: Monday, April 13, 1998 15:45 > To: LiebigSA@maritz.com > Subject: Hackles have been raised! > > > Am I the only one here who feels this way? > > Drew Wheeler > > No. Ya need a brain and a heart. From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 00:07:24 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 13 18:32:40 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOuaV-00067X-00; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 18:32:39 -0700 Message-ID: <19980413225710.23269.rocketmail@web4.rocketmail.com> Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 15:57:10 -0700 (PDT) From: "Rev. Doubt-Goat" Subject: More Yuppies and Loops To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"1LZOeD.A.gOF.zurM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5006 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 18:32:39 -0700 X-UIDL: b6bd350ee16ddfee8eb6df14d2260b18 93 I'd like to thank everyone who responded to my questions. Good stuff all! In my many years of amateur, semi-pro and pro performance experience, I've played with a *lot* of different bands, in a *lot* of different settings. My main experience has been, of course, that you try to play to the audience that you have, and that you should have *some* idea of what they will probably want. The interesting thing to me is, what do you do if you are faced with a "blind" situation, i.e. you don't know what the audience will be like? If you are looping, certainly an experimental venue will likely garner more listeners than a wedding gig will. Example: I used to play with a regionally very popular world-beat band in Kansas City, called BCR. We could pack 'em quite nicely at the clubs we would play. We were known to a large extent as a dance band (though we did play a lot of non-dance material). One time we played a wedding reception and could not get people to dance no matter what we did. And, even though we played at a low volume level (for a ten member band!), people kept leaving the room to go "talk". Now, the bride and groom, who hired us, danced and listened, and a few of their younger friends did as well, but all of the older people left the room! The point is, unless you always play it "safe" and only play where you *know* what you are doing will be accepted, occasionally you *will* run into a dud where you will drive people away instead of draw them in. Loopers, like most experimental musicians, are more likely to face this than a dance band will, (although as someone pointed out, if Michael Bolten were to play the Knitting Factory, would anyone stick around?) Since the amount of truely "experimental" venues will be limited, if a looper wants to share his/her music, they will need to try to play more "mainstream" venues. Now, since most "mainstream" venues will tend to cater to an audience with "mainstream" taste, what do you do? Here are a few idea off the top of my head. Keep in mind I would *never* suggest someone compromise their artistic integrity. 1. Loop covers! I do a weird loop cover of Gymnopedie #1 by Erik Satie, though perhaps a cover of Purple Haze might be a bigger hit. 2. Drums! Dance beats! Either Meester Drum Machine, or a drummer with a click or somesuch. 3. Cute girls/guys on stage! I'm doing a show soon with a dancer. Oughta be good. Stage charisma is something to not be overlooked. If you yourself don't have it, get someone up there with you who does! 4. Lights! Sets! Weird Costumes! Anyway, more later when I think of it! 93 Rev. DOubt-Goat _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 00:07:26 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 13 18:49:13 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOuqT-0007kK-00; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 18:49:09 -0700 Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 19:29:55 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199804140129.TAA06838@servidor.unam.mx> X-Authentication-Warning: servidor.unam.mx: [132.248.237.9] didn't use HELO protocol X-Sender: smaug@servidor.unam.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: smaug@servidor.unam.mx Subject: Re: Hackles have been raised! Resent-Message-ID: <"bL2goB.A.j2G.9-rM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5007 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 18:49:09 -0700 X-UIDL: 6b8217ad8fae1d5828c09d68c5f14428 Less intelligent people use words as analytical,academic and intelectual as INSULTS,hey,I know how to read and write music,my parents took me to piano lessons wich I hated,then I took it own my own,(story sounds familiar?)making music for the sake of it is a labor from the soul,but having musical education helps you have things a LOT more organized most of the time,but it becomes a cerebral and souless thing when you«re jamming and you«re thinking:"I«m in c diminished in 3/4 and I can«t play this or that note..." a healthy balance is the key,because I«m irked as well when I hear dudes going like:"I don«t know how this chord«s name,don«t know wich key I am in,but it works!" Play your living soul AND your thinking brain outta the song! Smaug. At 06:36 PM 13/04/98 EDT, you wrote: >About this statement: > ><< Looping still is home to the overly analytical and cerebral types > of energy. Those folks do more damge than good to > music in any category cause they reduce music to > something less than the gifts it can bear. >> > >Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but are you saying that the intellect has no >place in music of any type? Are you saying that the use of analytical and >intellectual skills actually make music worse? > >It really irks me when people use terms like "analytical" and "academic" and >"intellectual" in a perjorative way. Can music only "bear gifts" when it has >been written to the lowest common denominator? Is Madonna better that Bach >because she's less intellectual? > >I enjoy a lot of different kinds of music, from folk traditions to avant garde >contemporary music, and I would never presume to insult anyone's music because >it's too smart, or not smart enough. As an artist, I endeavor to bring my >entire self to my work--my intellect, my heart, my soul. I don't think >striving to make intelligent music takes away from my work in any way. In >fact, I think it can only help. Having a brain doesn't preclude having a >heart, does it? > >Am I the only one here who feels this way? > >Drew Wheeler > > From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 00:07:44 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 13 21:15:37 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOx89-00057C-00; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 21:15:33 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19980414015634.0097ba30@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: gls@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 20:56:34 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Grover Sheffield Subject: Re: EDP function problem Resent-Message-ID: <"zuGw-C.A.nUE.uHuM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5010 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 21:15:33 -0700 X-UIDL: 8089ac4d35492c304966612900147fb8 I've started working an EDP into a weekly restaurant gig, just noodling over diatonic chord changes with tension and release stuff. No one has stopped eating and walked out; there has even been some interest - "play that thing again"! Problem: I just replaced my 4 Mb chips with 16 Mb SIMMs. The EDP memory has indeed come up to 198 seconds (wonderful stuff, memory) HOWEVER... the unit NOW records in overdub mode even after I've hit the record switch to shut record off UNLESS I hit the overdub switch, then it doesn't overdub!!! Ididn't realize it until I started playing the gig last night, and it happened several times. Fortunantly, overdubbing sounds good, but WHAT HAVE I DONE? WHAT DO I NEED TO DO?? Calling Obie-wan.... TIA.... Grover From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 00:07:28 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 13 19:04:11 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOv4v-0001T2-00; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 19:04:05 -0700 X-Sender: bkettles@sfpo.macromedia.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000ED6F2.001424@mail.bl.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 18:58:31 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Buzz Kettles Subject: Re[2]: Fred Frith Resent-Message-ID: <"N1RNtC.A.s6.sMsM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5008 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 19:04:05 -0700 X-UIDL: 35b3ead970e59d0d737bfaab69ef4b30 This is available on CD - It also includes FF's selections from gtr solos 2 & 3 ... there WAS tape delay in places - later on (1980?) FF moved to a mixer (HH?) that had built in DDL echo ... -Buzz > I'm only really familiar with Fred's work from the period of Henry Cow > (for whom I failed the audition as bassist!) up to the Art Bears, but > if you ever see a copy of his GUITAR SOLOS (1974 - Caroline in the > UK), then invest immediately. > > Its some while since I've heard it, but I suspect at last part of it > was recorded with some form of tape delay device (the original sleeve > notes comment that most/all performances are live apart from one track > which had two notes edited out) - anyone know anything more on this? > > I recall he used various `prepared' guitar techniques - alligator > clips on the strings etc, but also had an additional pick-up attached > to the head stock of his guitar, which could `pick up' the sound of > the string's vibrations from `behind' the left hand fingers, achieving > a duet/harmonised effect (sort of). > > GUITAR SOLOS 2 (with G.F. Fitzgerald, Hans Reichel, and Derek Bailey) > had a few diagrams of recording techniques - placing speakers under a > piano's lid and taping the resonance etc. plus > > David From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 00:07:30 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 13 19:38:09 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOvbs-0004IF-00; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 19:38:08 -0700 From: "Woehni" To: Subject: Lanois/Reeves Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 04:31:21 +0200 Message-ID: <01bd674d$85e71aa0$ed014382@pentium-200> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"l1qRGC.A.hoD._ssM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5009 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 19:38:08 -0700 X-UIDL: c3a4a0dbc761b2f229f2a847247a0184 Hi friends , just got back from my easter holiday and have about 150 post to go through. While im sitting here cathcing up I have a funny experience I`d like to share. It happened in my familys cabin out in the country. We were all gathered there , uncles and aunts , grandparents and grandchildren. It was one of those magical moments when the family is gathered and everyone is happy. And when my family is gathered there is one thing you can count on: the old country/crooner Jim Reeves is not far away. So there we are , fireplace lit up , playing cards and having a good time. But when the second tape of Jim Reeves is reaching its end and my mom is hopping about looking for the third I figure its time to take action: I put on the sweetest smile I can muster and say , in my most angelic voice: "listen , guys , I brought a cd with some of the music I like......." As always , this line coming from me makes everybody get a really worried frown and the eyes start flickeering......."maybe later , dear" I hear from my otherwise so suportive grandmother. She was obviously starting to get the groove on with good ole mr. Reeves. At this point Im almost gasping for air as Jim`s drummer counbts up to yet another shuffle. I say: " actually , the music is quite similar to what you are already listening to". I watch my words carefully not to let my unholy dread of mr. Reeves slip through. Im winning them over now. One by one they ease up and goes about with their business. "we dont mind" is the vibe they`re sending out. Its down to mom now. She is the only one standing bewteen me and freedom. I push my hungry-puppy-look to the max and goes beyond my limits. Adolf Hitler would have melted had he looked into my eyes on that cold april night. Finally she caves in and gestures me towards the cheap stereo ("500 watts" it says) and my freedom. As I approach the instrument of my release (phillips compact stereo cd system , with subsonic bass and loudness button) I feel like a drowning man reaching the surface. Life is good. I whip out my Daniel Lanois cd`s and put on "Acadie". My heart skips a beat as the conversation in the room stops. Everyone listens attentively. They all get a surprised look on their faces. My mum asks who this is. "daniel lanois" I tell them , in my best french accent. Noone says a word. Then magic happens. They LOVE it!!!!!! They absolutely love it! My mom starts speaking french to show us that "I learned french in college y`know". My grandmother seems to have forgotten all about Jim Reeves and says: "that Daniel knows how......that Daniel." I deicide to milk my victory for all its worth and starts telling my uncle (the only one there who is remotely interested in music) that Lanois has produced for U2. I get a warm rush through my body as I feel a revolution is going on. I picture my whole family getting into Lanois , then Eno and Torn. Maybe granny will by me that Crimson box set Ive been drooling over. Could dad get a Zappa-obsession and get all those records i cant find?? As I sit there dreaming I realize that Ive pushed it too far. My uncle is , after all , a luther vandross fan and thinks virtuosity equals quality. He mutters : "I think he should have stuck to producing" referring to a not-so-in-tune Lanois vocal note. Oh well , we win some loose some. My point is this: How can Daniel Lanois appeal to me (as a somewhat modern jazz type guy) and to the Jim Reeves fans out there without sounding like he`s compromising? Is there a lesson here for all us "weirdos"?? Maybe we can all make a good living at this if we just look at our creative output from a different angle?? I leave it up to you to decide , I just wanted to share.............. Yours , Thomas Woehni , Oslo Norway........ From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 00:07:47 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 13 21:24:21 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOxGd-0006Il-00; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 21:24:19 -0700 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sprintmail.com From: "COLLINSCLAN" To: Subject: Re: Re[2]: Fred Frith Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 23:09:55 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd6752$cc7a7ac0$4408bfa8@0QHC6SIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"KdQVdC.A.D_E.zMuM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5011 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 21:24:19 -0700 X-UIDL: 9862e56334e8bcdc56e40bcbeedb162c Buzz, I am a BIG Fred Frith fan. And thanks for the info. Have you checked the guitar quartet cd? Amazing. Jeff Collins -----Original Message----- From: Buzz Kettles To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Monday, April 13, 1998 10:01 PM Subject: Re[2]: Fred Frith >This is available on CD - >It also includes FF's selections from gtr solos 2 & 3 ... > >there WAS tape delay in places - >later on (1980?) FF moved to a mixer (HH?) that had built in DDL echo ... > >-Buzz > >> I'm only really familiar with Fred's work from the period of Henry Cow >> (for whom I failed the audition as bassist!) up to the Art Bears, but >> if you ever see a copy of his GUITAR SOLOS (1974 - Caroline in the >> UK), then invest immediately. >> >> Its some while since I've heard it, but I suspect at last part of it >> was recorded with some form of tape delay device (the original sleeve >> notes comment that most/all performances are live apart from one track >> which had two notes edited out) - anyone know anything more on this? >> >> I recall he used various `prepared' guitar techniques - alligator >> clips on the strings etc, but also had an additional pick-up attached >> to the head stock of his guitar, which could `pick up' the sound of >> the string's vibrations from `behind' the left hand fingers, achieving >> a duet/harmonised effect (sort of). >> >> GUITAR SOLOS 2 (with G.F. Fitzgerald, Hans Reichel, and Derek Bailey) >> had a few diagrams of recording techniques - placing speakers under a >> piano's lid and taping the resonance etc. plus >> >> David > > > > > From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 00:07:54 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 13 23:53:36 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOzb0-0001ZM-00; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 23:53:30 -0700 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sprintmail.com From: "COLLINSCLAN" To: Subject: Re: More Yuppies and Loops Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 23:15:45 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd6753$9d6aa380$4408bfa8@0QHC6SIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"5exwg.A.Y6.LbwM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5015 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 23:53:30 -0700 X-UIDL: 06fa65e991afdf250354050ee6329594 The dancer thing like Derek Bailey began doing in the late 70's and is still doing it. If you haven't checked out his stuff you should. He even has a video of him and dancer Min Tanaka. Check it out. Jeff Collins -----Original Message----- From: Rev. Doubt-Goat To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Monday, April 13, 1998 9:30 PM Subject: More Yuppies and Loops > >93 > >I'd like to thank everyone who responded to my >questions. Good stuff all! > >In my many years of amateur, semi-pro and pro >performance experience, I've played with a *lot* >of different bands, in a *lot* of different >settings. My main experience has been, of >course, that you try to play to the audience >that you have, and that you should have *some* >idea of what they will probably want. > >The interesting thing to me is, what do you do >if you are faced with a "blind" situation, i.e. >you don't know what the audience will be like? >If you are looping, certainly an experimental >venue will likely garner more listeners than a >wedding gig will. > >Example: I used to play with a regionally very >popular world-beat band in Kansas City, called >BCR. We could pack 'em quite nicely at the clubs >we would play. We were known to a large extent >as a dance band (though we did play a lot of >non-dance material). > >One time we played a wedding reception and could >not get people to dance no matter what we did. >And, even though we played at a low volume level >(for a ten member band!), people kept leaving >the room to go "talk". Now, the bride and >groom, who hired us, danced and listened, and a >few of their younger friends did as well, but >all of the older people left the room! > >The point is, unless you always play it "safe" >and only play where you *know* what you are >doing will be accepted, occasionally you *will* >run into a dud where you will drive people away >instead of draw them in. > >Loopers, like most experimental musicians, are >more likely to face this than a dance band will, >(although as someone pointed out, if Michael >Bolten were to play the Knitting Factory, would >anyone stick around?) > >Since the amount of truely "experimental" venues >will be limited, if a looper wants to share >his/her music, they will need to try to play >more "mainstream" venues. Now, since most >"mainstream" venues will tend to cater to an >audience with "mainstream" taste, what do you do? > >Here are a few idea off the top of my head. >Keep in mind I would *never* suggest someone >compromise their artistic integrity. > >1. Loop covers! I do a weird loop cover of >Gymnopedie #1 by Erik Satie, though perhaps a >cover of Purple Haze might be a bigger hit. > >2. Drums! Dance beats! Either Meester Drum >Machine, or a drummer with a click or somesuch. > >3. Cute girls/guys on stage! I'm doing a show >soon with a dancer. Oughta be good. Stage >charisma is something to not be overlooked. If >you yourself don't have it, get someone up there >with you who does! > >4. Lights! Sets! Weird Costumes! > >Anyway, more later when I think of it! > >93 > >Rev. DOubt-Goat >_________________________________________________________ >DO YOU YAHOO!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 00:07:48 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 13 21:25:25 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOxHZ-0006R0-00; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 21:25:17 -0700 Message-ID: <19980414041439.23129.rocketmail@attach1.rocketmail.com> Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 21:14:39 -0700 (PDT) From: "Rev. Doubt-Goat" Subject: Re: Hackles have been raised! To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"1udfwD.A.7KF.GOuM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5012 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 21:25:17 -0700 X-UIDL: 190bb51269b8fc83d162b2fbb00c18ae 93 ---TritoneDW wrote: > > About this statement: > > << Looping still is home to the overly analytical and cerebral types > of energy. Those folks do more damge than good to > music in any category cause they reduce music to > something less than the gifts it can bear. >> > > Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but are you saying that the intellect has no > place in music of any type? Are you saying that the use of analytical and > intellectual skills actually make music worse? > > It really irks me when people use terms like "analytical" and "academic" and > "intellectual" in a perjorative way. Can music only "bear gifts" when it has > been written to the lowest common denominator? Is Madonna better that Bach > because she's less intellectual? > > I enjoy a lot of different kinds of music, from folk traditions to avant garde > contemporary music, and I would never presume to insult anyone's music because > it's too smart, or not smart enough. As an artist, I endeavor to bring my > entire self to my work--my intellect, my heart, my soul. I don't think > striving to make intelligent music takes away from my work in any way. In > fact, I think it can only help. Having a brain doesn't preclude having a > heart, does it? > > Am I the only one here who feels this way? > > Drew Wheeler Sounds like someone who's been to one too many contemporary chamber concerts? Or someone who's had a music professor who composes with number theory? There is of course such a thing as overly intellectual music, music that is composed with theory only. And on the other hand, there is music that is emotive shit. Music should blend emotion with thought, Hod with Netzach, heart with head. This = soul. 93 Rev. DOubt-Goat (mad occult loopist!) _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 00:07:51 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 13 22:41:40 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOyTR-0004Ux-00; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 22:41:37 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980414042510.00a1a570@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 21:25:10 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: EDP function problem Resent-Message-ID: <"JxDkiC.A.V1D.KZvM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5013 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 22:41:37 -0700 X-UIDL: 2131adbcf4acd716066e30c8271544fa you've got it in delay mode. Go to the Loop/Delay parameter and switch it back to Loop mode. kim At 08:56 PM 4/13/98 -0500, Grover Sheffield wrote: >I've started working an EDP into a weekly restaurant gig, just noodling over >diatonic chord changes with tension and release stuff. No one has stopped >eating and walked out; there has even been some interest - "play that thing >again"! > Problem: I just replaced my 4 Mb chips with 16 Mb SIMMs. The EDP >memory has indeed come up to 198 seconds (wonderful stuff, memory) >HOWEVER... the unit NOW records in overdub mode even after I've hit the >record switch to shut record off UNLESS I hit the overdub switch, then it >doesn't overdub!!! Ididn't realize it until I started playing the gig last >night, and it happened several times. Fortunantly, overdubbing sounds good, >but WHAT HAVE I DONE? WHAT DO I NEED TO DO?? Calling Obie-wan.... > > TIA.... Grover _______________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 Mpact Systems Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 00:07:53 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 13 23:52:43 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOzaD-0001Sv-00; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 23:52:41 -0700 From: TritoneDW Message-ID: <883bdb96.3533067a@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 02:47:20 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Hackles have been raised! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 56 Resent-Message-ID: <"KT2DoD.A.r0.kawM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5014 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 23:52:41 -0700 X-UIDL: eafb4c953420616bd5703ae925129f18 The good Reverend sez: << Sounds like someone who's been to one too many contemporary chamber concerts? Or someone who's had a music professor who composes with number theory? There is of course such a thing as overly intellectual music, music that is composed with theory only. And on the other hand, there is music that is emotive shit. >> I can partially agree with you here. A compositional method such as twelve- tone serialism can attract people who think that if they count to twelve, they've made music. If someone would have put up a post that said "only intellectual music is good music" I would have reacted just as strongly. However, the twelve-tone system, like any other system, can be used to create quite beautiful music. The work of Milton Babbitt comes to mind. Webern, too. Some of his stuff is surely "emotive shit". For the record, I'm not a twelve-tone composer, and actually every university music professor I ever had was strongly against the twelve-tone system. All I'm saying is that the attitude that "intellectual" music is automatically bad is just as suspect as the attitude that "intuitive" music is always bad. I'll take it one step farther: you can't objectively say that ANY music is bad--the worth of any art is purely subjective. What I might find emotionally and/or intellectually satisfying may very well leave others cold. What others find emotive might strike me as maudlin, or silly, or whatever. "You can't please all the people all the time." (Insert other cliches here) Anyway, really I'm advocating openness to and acceptance of the vast variety of musical styles and genres out there. It's a big, big world out there, folks. Listen to it. Drew From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 11:44:32 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 14 05:55:51 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net ([207.171.193.21] helo=falcon.slip.net) by ferret.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@slip.net id 0yP5Fe-0000WV-00; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 05:55:50 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net ([207.171.193.6] ident=mail) by falcon.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yP5Fd-0002rW-00; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 05:55:49 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yP5Fa-0000WD-00; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 05:55:46 -0700 From: "Woehni" To: Subject: SV: loopers wishlist Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 14:49:52 +0200 Message-ID: <01bd67a3$ef106080$03014382@pentium-200> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"BMHFZB.A.nM.7w1M1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5016 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 05:55:46 -0700 X-UIDL: 0d573cf13afc4ccf562e56d52e31ed3a Michael wrote: not being a big techie i would like to see: audio cassettes come with new equipment that start "turn on your xyz796 and when your push these buttons it will sound like this...........now if you turn this knob it will sound like this........" ect. then Kim replied: >A good idea, certainly. But don't you get that by being on this list? The >creators of most the devices we talk about are here! I agree with both of you but Michael saved my day when he spoke on behalf of us "slow techs". Thanks Mike! Now make the bloody tapes , will ya??!!??!! :-) Yours , Thomas From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 11:45:24 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 14 10:39:34 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yP9fw-0004E3-00; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 10:39:16 -0700 Message-ID: <19980414172548.11105.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [207.94.66.242] From: "Matt Rowe" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: wtb: edp in nyc (aka: newbie here) Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 10:25:48 PDT Resent-Message-ID: <"ygELXC.A.qZC.Ux5M1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5017 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 10:39:16 -0700 X-UIDL: 67ff2caa262d58657d8fc35a010e95dd Hi all, I joined this list a few weeks ago, and have been lurking a little while. I'm relatively new to the "looping scene," but I've always loved the kookier things that happen when I turned the regeneration up to max on my old delay pedals. Right now, I'm looping guitars and synths with a Vortex, but as the message title says, I'm looking for an EDP (or leads to help me track one down). Preferably in the New York City area, but I don't mind the shipping ordeal. I really appreciate the (mostly) positive and musically encouraging attitude on this list. And, I'd like to get to some of the local gigs. My point is, beyond being new to this list, I'm also new to NYC. So , if anyone can recommend any good places to check out some loopy music, I'd be thankful. TIA, Matt The price I pay for free, private email is the following commercial message... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 20:04:31 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 14 12:35:43 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPB5k-00017q-00; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 12:10:00 -0700 Message-ID: <3533A380.C72C3B28@intcpi.com> Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 13:57:21 -0400 From: jprice@intcpi.com (John Price) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Hackles have been raised! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xWPf5B.A.ZvG.IG7M1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5019 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 12:10:00 -0700 X-UIDL: dd8b9f4f5a96c21bbb9aef53c37a6283 Intellect and analysis belongs wherever its needed and desired. Understand Im talkin bout extremes here..and there are plenty of them in all aspects of earthly existence these days. Sincerly, No one music is better than another or preferably more apt to be a more giving or substantive listening experience ( perfect example of me using bloated verbiage here - Im guilty of that an awful lot.) When you obsess and keep kicking around the what ifs aznd what nots about this and a particular "that" and make that particular process more of a preoccupation to actually listening and "hearing" a piece you often times are removed from the beauty and joy or utter nonsense a music(s) moment has to offer you. Now thats a somewhat frippian statement but its something ive observed to be true over time ( IMHO ) Everyone is entitled to an opinion and their opinion isnt necessarily right or wrong...it just is ya know. Overly analytical types often ruin a lot of experiences for others because their analysis is always either intrusive, unsolicited and often times in the case of "the fripp headed - ( easy generalization here ) " a way for those types to publically show how in tune with something that everybody else is missing - It aint a bad thing in and of itself but externally viewd its perceived a lot of ways.. usually all negative & ultimately hurting the music and the artists of such "difficult/new/avant garde" musics on many differnt levels. Those types always make listening to music akin to algebra or calculus problems and often times turn music appreciation into a sport. That was the point I was trying to make. No more analysis for me today. JP TritoneDW wrote: > About this statement: > > << Looping still is home to the overly analytical and cerebral types > of energy. Those folks do more damge than good to > music in any category cause they reduce music to > something less than the gifts it can bear. >> > > Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but are you saying that the intellect has no > place in music of any type? Are you saying that the use of analytical and > intellectual skills actually make music worse? > > It really irks me when people use terms like "analytical" and "academic" and > "intellectual" in a perjorative way. Can music only "bear gifts" when it has > been written to the lowest common denominator? Is Madonna better that Bach > because she's less intellectual? > > I enjoy a lot of different kinds of music, from folk traditions to avant garde > contemporary music, and I would never presume to insult anyone's music because > it's too smart, or not smart enough. As an artist, I endeavor to bring my > entire self to my work--my intellect, my heart, my soul. I don't think > striving to make intelligent music takes away from my work in any way. In > fact, I think it can only help. Having a brain doesn't preclude having a > heart, does it? > > Am I the only one here who feels this way? > > Drew Wheeler From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 11:45:31 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 14 11:35:52 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPAYN-00047i-00; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 11:35:31 -0700 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sprintmail.com From: "COLLINSCLAN" To: Subject: Re: edp in nyc (aka: newbie here) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 14:19:05 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd67d1$cee54680$2508bfa8@0QHC6SIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"nVBUOB.A.OmC.ho6M1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5018 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 11:35:31 -0700 X-UIDL: 56b1f372216361b9d23995167d65067c Matt, If you're in New York, you should go to the Knitting Factory Works and check out the concerts there. John Zorn, Derek Bailey, and just about everyone else on the avant-garde scene that is known plays there. Have fun, wish I could be there but i'm here in Ohio. Jeff Collins collinsclan@sprintmail.com -----Original Message----- From: Matt Rowe To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Tuesday, April 14, 1998 1:32 PM Subject: wtb: edp in nyc (aka: newbie here) >Hi all, > >I joined this list a few weeks ago, and have been lurking a little >while. I'm relatively new to the "looping scene," but I've always loved >the kookier things that happen when I turned the regeneration up to max >on my old delay pedals. Right now, I'm looping guitars and synths with >a Vortex, but as the message title says, I'm looking for an EDP (or >leads to help me track one down). Preferably in the New York City area, >but I don't mind the shipping ordeal. > >I really appreciate the (mostly) positive and musically encouraging >attitude on this list. And, I'd like to get to some of the local gigs. >My point is, beyond being new to this list, I'm also new to NYC. So , >if anyone can recommend any good places to check out some loopy music, >I'd be thankful. > >TIA, >Matt > >The price I pay for free, private email is the following commercial >message... > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 20:04:33 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 14 13:19:22 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPCAi-0002oA-00; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 13:19:12 -0700 Message-ID: <19980414200742.22840.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [192.35.39.37] From: "Jamie Riazzi" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Esi-4000 sample program Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 13:07:42 PDT Resent-Message-ID: <"KA9ZYD.A.vRB.5I8M1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5020 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 13:19:12 -0700 X-UIDL: 153726fdf5832a0aa42d8a1ef7feb128 >From lists@slip.net Fri Apr 10 13:30:47 1998 >Received: from ferret.slip.net ([207.171.193.6] ident=mail) > by falcon.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) > for iojar@hotmail.com > id 0yNkRe-0001Ny-00; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:30:43 -0700 >Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) > for iojar@hotmail.com > id 0yNkRN-0006IZ-00; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:30:25 -0700 >From: Trinitymid >Message-ID: <900c5fec.352e7fc0@aol.com> >Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:23:27 EDT >To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Subject: Esi-4000 sample program >Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 62 >Resent-Message-ID: <"MKEO5.A.LLF.t_nL1"@ferret> >Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4954 >Precedence: list >Resent-Sender: SmartList >Resent-To: iojar@hotmail.com >Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:30:25 -0700 > >Is there any program (for windows) that you can save and edit esi format >samples. If so please tell me. i know sound forge does, but I'm short on >cash right now. i'm hoping to fine something freeware. >thanks, > chris > >Hi Chris, My name is Jamie and I have an esi-32. I am also looking for something similar. I dont know if sound forge will work or not. I use cool edit shareware and a soundblaster program that is called wave editer. I hate the way I have to sample but i dont got the $$Cheddar$$$ to but any phat programs, anyway have you got the new OS 3? I dont yet but will be... Can you save samples as ESI-32 format? let me know, I live in Erie, PA and no one out here does any cool sampling and loops ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 20:04:36 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 14 13:27:09 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPCIG-0003sg-00; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 13:27:00 -0700 Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 16:12:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Adam Levin To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: The Dark Aether Project in Baltimore this Thursday Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"O87AKD.A.6AC.VO8M1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5021 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 13:27:00 -0700 X-UIDL: d3418557799eda627fb2c75b8e454cd7 The Dark Aether Project will perform with heavy improvisational instrumental fusion trio Uncle Gut this Thursday night at E J Bugs Saloon located at 702 South Broadway Street in Baltimore MD. Showtime is 9pm and there is no cover. The Dark Aether Project is a new musical experience blending elements of progressive and psychedelic rock with jazz-based improvisational sensibilities. The Dark Aether Project is: Adam Levin: Chapman Stick, Loops, Guitar Yaman Aksu: Fretted and Fretless Guitars, Guitar Synthesizer Brian Griffin: Percussion ...and special guest Jason Wilson of Emerald Tiers: Vocals "...jazz-inflected, often minimalistic progressive...foreboding soundscape[s]...classy...offers mature musicianship without pretentiousness." - John Collinge, Progression Magazine "This is a great one for fans of Trey Gunn, Philharmonie, or the Stick in general... The band has great chemistry and cool ideas that are executed well." - William T. Bajzek, Tap Reviews Hear sound samples from the debut CD at: http://www.ari.net/prog/bands/dap/ The CD may be purchased from Wayside Music, The Laser's Edge, ZNR Records, Of Sound Mind and other purveyors of fine music. Other Upcoming Performances: May 28 - Cafe Tattoo - Baltimore, MD (with Uncle Gut) Jul 18 - Cafe Tattoo - Baltimore, MD (with Always Almost/Grey Eye Glances) More performances to be announced For bookings and distributor inquiries please email dap@ari.net -Adam --- "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue, out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one becomes a Hearer." - Chandrakirti T h e D a r k A e t h e r P r o j e c t http://www.ari.net/prog/bands/dap/ From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 20:04:42 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 14 14:56:21 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPDgY-0000GZ-00; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 14:56:10 -0700 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199804142142.OAA27415@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: Hackles have been raised! To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 14:42:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <19980414041439.23129.rocketmail@attach1.rocketmail.com> from "Rev. Doubt-Goat" at Apr 13, 98 09:14:39 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tOJGTD.A.x8F.yh9M1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5022 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 14:56:10 -0700 X-UIDL: f3e371023377e2bf20bc58d28d1c6b83 > Sounds like someone who's been to one too many > contemporary chamber concerts? Or someone who's > had a music professor who composes with number > theory? > > There is of course such a thing as overly > intellectual music, music that is composed with > theory only. And on the other hand, there is > music that is emotive shit. > > Music should blend emotion with thought, Hod > with Netzach, heart with head. This = soul. On the other hand... I've heard music supposedly "written from the heart and soul" that sounded dreadful to my ears and I've heard "theory composed" music that was breathtakingly beautiful. As a music listener, the methods used to create a piece of music only matter to me as intellectual curiosities. What truly matters emotionally is the impact of the end result, regardless of how it came to be. Cheers, Paolo Valladolid --------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ---------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 20:04:49 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 14 16:02:47 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPEiq-0001Sa-00; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 16:02:36 -0700 Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 18:51:00 -0400 From: buzzard@world.std.com (Sean T Barrett) Message-Id: <199804142251.AA10655@world.std.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Hackles have been raised! Resent-Message-ID: <"xNfhuD.A.FUH._h-M1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5023 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 16:02:36 -0700 X-UIDL: 5de9b65c11838046c4ba3bc098ef6785 >As a music listener, the methods used to create a piece of music only matter >to me as intellectual curiosities. What truly matters emotionally is >the impact of the end result, regardless of how it came to be. This still implies that the only purpose of music is to produce an emotional response. Personally, I think music is whatever people want it to be, and it's no better or worse for music to be "emotional" or "emotionless". On the other hand, IMHO, I take all claims of "emotionality" with a grain of salt because I think for the most part people are speaking of something that isn't really emotional at all; it's just more like emotion than intellect and so that's the term people use. It seems to me the range of expressive music is so much broader than the scope of emotions. (Of course you _can_ evoke particular emotions, but that seems to be only a subset of the potential, and debatable whether it is the "best" subset.) I half wonder whether it's just that certain kinds of music evokes an adrenalin rush which people mistake for emotional response (a la classic psych research). Sean Barrett From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 20:04:57 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 14 19:32:15 1998 Received: from falcon ([207.171.193.27] helo=falcon.slip.net) by ferret.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@slip.net id 0yPHzb-0003HC-00; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 19:32:07 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net ([207.171.193.6] ident=mail) by falcon.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPHzU-0004Lm-00; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 19:32:00 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPHzJ-0003Es-00; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 19:31:49 -0700 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199804142309.QAA28017@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: Hackles have been raised! To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 16:09:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <199804142251.AA10655@world.std.com> from "Sean T Barrett" at Apr 14, 98 06:51:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bs4VAD.A.5FC.MoBN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5024 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 19:31:49 -0700 X-UIDL: 4050185a198af60f270be4ad23b9ea54 > >As a music listener, the methods used to create a piece of music only matter > >to me as intellectual curiosities. What truly matters emotionally is > >the impact of the end result, regardless of how it came to be. > > This still implies that the only purpose of music > is to produce an emotional response. Personally, > I think music is whatever people want it to be, > and it's no better or worse for music to be > "emotional" or "emotionless". Yeah, that was what I was getting at. Thanks! Paolo From ???@??? Wed Apr 15 10:55:38 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 14 21:44:53 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPK3y-0002RE-00; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 21:44:46 -0700 From: PMimlitsch Message-ID: Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 19:44:03 EDT To: stickwire-l@netcom.com, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: DC Gig Content-type: text/plain X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 84 Resent-Message-ID: <"etw_tB.A.eKB.XlDN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5026 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 21:44:46 -0700 X-UIDL: ed3a835033856461725b2c90eaf6d6c3 This Sat. April 18th. I'll (Paul Mimlitsch-Chapman Stick¨/Loops in duo w/J.Jody Janetta - percussion) be heading south to do the "Explorations in Time and Space" thing at the "Wash. D. C. LoopShow". We will be one of three groups performing at the event, the other two being Vocalist/Loopist Siobahn Canty (along with E."Doc" Smith on the midi "drumstick"), and experimental Guitar/Loop duo "Fingerpaint" (Patrick Smith and Steev Geest) who organized and are hosting the event. Info on the performers can be gotten at the following web sites: http://www.fingerpaint.net/Loop.html http://www.his.com/~patrick/FNGP.html http://www.newcommunity.net/adelante/bios/paulbio.html http://www.newcommunity.net/adelante/bios/Jodybio.html http://home.earthlink.net/~selgart/smith/drum.html http://members.bellatlantic.net/~drmsmth/canty.html Promises to be quite an eclectic night of sonic exploration!!! From ???@??? Wed Apr 15 10:55:42 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 14 23:55:41 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net ([207.171.193.21] helo=falcon.slip.net) by ferret.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@slip.net id 0yPM6e-0004d9-00; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 23:55:40 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net ([207.171.193.6] ident=mail) by falcon.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPM6d-0001Ak-00; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 23:55:39 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPM6Y-0004cR-00; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 23:55:34 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980414220802.006bdde4@mail.utexas.edu> X-Sender: esker@mail.utexas.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 22:08:02 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthew hahn Subject: Re: wtb: edp in nyc (aka: newbie here) In-Reply-To: <19980414172548.11105.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"XksewC.A.f7D.XkFN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5029 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 23:55:34 -0700 X-UIDL: 450d7affc1fb1b24241f2d55b8554d86 >The price I pay for free, private email is the following commercial >message... > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Off topic entirely but the price you pay is one of two things, tracking and surveillance information, or being employed by now microsoft to say those things. I hope this post is not an advertorial. Mjh From ???@??? Wed Apr 15 10:55:40 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 14 23:01:41 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net ([207.171.193.21] helo=falcon.slip.net) by ferret.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@slip.net id 0yPLGK-0005sn-00; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 23:01:36 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net ([207.171.193.6] ident=mail) by falcon.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPLGL-0006aI-00; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 23:01:37 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPLGA-0005rO-00; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 23:01:26 -0700 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sprintmail.com From: "COLLINSCLAN" To: Subject: Re: Hackles have been raised! Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 23:17:01 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd681c$f4e89c60$8508bfa8@0QHC6SIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"zjEcu.A.CnE.tuEN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5028 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 23:01:26 -0700 X-UIDL: 275fb9ef4362ed58d2209e4754c906c7 I am all for what you said. Jeff -----Original Message----- From: Paolo Valladolid To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Tuesday, April 14, 1998 10:27 PM Subject: Re: Hackles have been raised! >> >As a music listener, the methods used to create a piece of music only matter >> >to me as intellectual curiosities. What truly matters emotionally is >> >the impact of the end result, regardless of how it came to be. >> >> This still implies that the only purpose of music >> is to produce an emotional response. Personally, >> I think music is whatever people want it to be, >> and it's no better or worse for music to be >> "emotional" or "emotionless". > >Yeah, that was what I was getting at. > >Thanks! > >Paolo > > From ???@??? Wed Apr 15 10:55:39 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 14 21:58:35 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPKHD-0004QY-00; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 21:58:27 -0700 Message-Id: <199804150332.XAA08271@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: Garbarek album (from 1984) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 23:30:35 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sAlCOD.A.SQD.ezDN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5027 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 21:58:27 -0700 X-UIDL: 34387793c67af5788f762dcaea3144e8 hey.. anyone familiar with "it's Ok to listen to the grey voice" (sic) by Jan Garbarek, featuring the loverly gittar of Mr DT ??? Just - re-familiarized meself with it tonite - great album!!! some diff'rent stuff than what i've been listening to from Torn (i been spinning mostly the new BLUE, Tripping, What Means? and various Karn and Polytown) - this garbarek date has a lot more 'clean' arpeggios and some truly sick solos - sparse but dense when they happen... and *lo!!* some guitar synth from DT... Jan's smmoth sax tone has always been a fave- and is why i grabbed this years ago - not real familiar with DT at the time.... anyway - recommended if ya don't have it andre' From ???@??? Wed Apr 15 10:55:37 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 14 21:33:15 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPJsk-0000jP-00; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 21:33:10 -0700 From: TritoneDW Message-ID: <66183f48.3534367e@aol.com> Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 00:24:28 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Hackles have been raised! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 56 Resent-Message-ID: <"dHPD-B.A.JEH.BbDN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5025 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 21:33:10 -0700 X-UIDL: a650aac483b1c215caeec93d4756da02 About this: << Overly analytical types often ruin a lot of experiences for others because their analysis is always either intrusive, unsolicited and often times in the case of "the fripp headed - ( easy generalization here ) " a way for those types to publically show how in tune with something that everybody else is missing >> With this, I agree--I sort of figured you didn't mean your statement in such a black and white way, but there are a lot of people who do think that way. The sort of musical "insiderism" (not a real word) which you describe can be quite obnoxious. Lord knows there are plenty of people pulling that kind of one-up crap. Of course, there are also certain times when an amount of "agreed terminology" is required--talking about serialism, for example. Still, using terms which you know others will not understand in an effort to show off your secret occult musical knowledge is really pretty irritating. As an aside, I notice that lots of people are bringing up Fripp in the context of this conversation. I have to plead ignorance on this subject--I actually was referring more to avant-garde "classical" music in my post; Babbitt, Ferneyhough, and the like. Apparently Fripp says things that rile people up. :-) Drew W. From ???@??? Wed Apr 15 10:56:19 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 15 04:41:58 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPQZg-0003VE-00; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 04:41:56 -0700 Sender: camao@camsg001.camb.scee.sony.co.uk Message-ID: <35348BF3.A474BC75@scee.sony.co.uk> Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 11:29:07 +0100 From: Os X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; IRIX 6.2 IP22) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: live loops in London Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lddRAC.A.oCD.vxJN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5030 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 04:41:56 -0700 X-UIDL: a50acc0fe6997b7b7821b0af50b1b8b4 'Darkroom' will be playing live at the Omsk Club on Thursday 23rd April. Line-up will be voice, theremin, desks, keyboard and jammen. 333 Old Street, London. 9pm till late. http://www.collective.co.uk/darkroom/ -- Os os@scee.sony.co.uk os@collective.co.uk http://www.collective.co.uk/ From ???@??? Wed Apr 15 10:56:38 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 15 07:50:17 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPTVu-0007Gl-00; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 07:50:14 -0700 From: "Woehni" To: , Subject: SV: Garbarek album (from 1984) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 15:40:15 +0200 Message-ID: <01bd6874$05909b60$ec024382@pentium-200> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"_dbNGC.A.eRG.TgMN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5032 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 07:50:14 -0700 X-UIDL: 748619656d900df21d55b65ab8993e43 Absolutely , this album is great!! On a related subject: Has anyone heard anything by the "Everyman Band" (with DT)?? I believe they released an album with Jan Garbarek in the middle eighties. Thomas >hey.. > >anyone familiar with "it's Ok to listen to the grey voice" (sic) by Jan >Garbarek, featuring the loverly gittar of Mr DT ??? > >Just - re-familiarized meself with it tonite - great album!!! > >some diff'rent stuff than what i've been listening to from Torn (i been >spinning mostly the new BLUE, Tripping, What Means? and various Karn and >Polytown) - this garbarek date has a lot more 'clean' arpeggios and some >truly sick solos - sparse but dense when they happen... and *lo!!* some >guitar synth from DT... Jan's smmoth sax tone has always been a fave- and >is why i grabbed this years ago - not real familiar with DT at the time.... > >anyway - recommended if ya don't have it > >andre' > From ???@??? Wed Apr 15 10:56:34 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 15 07:44:25 1998 Received: from falcon ([207.171.193.27] helo=falcon.slip.net) by ferret.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@slip.net id 0yPTQE-0006Ur-00; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 07:44:22 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net ([207.171.193.6] ident=mail) by falcon.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPTQD-0002YV-00; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 07:44:21 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPTQ5-0006TW-00; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 07:44:13 -0700 Message-ID: <3534C7DA.8BE94055@intcpi.com> Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 10:44:42 -0400 From: jprice@intcpi.com (John Price) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: andre@monmouth.com CC: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Garbarek album (from 1984) References: <199804150332.XAA08271@shell.monmouth.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-qvTFD.A.zmF.ebMN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5031 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 07:44:13 -0700 X-UIDL: 3549662bec0cc1848f80dac4bc8edc88 That was my first encounter with Torn's stuff too. One hell of a 1st impression it was for me. Not too many folkses seem to mention this work. This is one cool listening experience. JP andre wrote: > hey.. > > anyone familiar with "it's Ok to listen to the grey voice" (sic) by Jan > Garbarek, featuring the loverly gittar of Mr DT ??? > > Just - re-familiarized meself with it tonite - great album!!! > > some diff'rent stuff than what i've been listening to from Torn (i been > spinning mostly the new BLUE, Tripping, What Means? and various Karn and > Polytown) - this garbarek date has a lot more 'clean' arpeggios and some > truly sick solos - sparse but dense when they happen... and *lo!!* some > guitar synth from DT... Jan's smmoth sax tone has always been a fave- and > is why i grabbed this years ago - not real familiar with DT at the time.... > > anyway - recommended if ya don't have it > > andre' From ???@??? Wed Apr 15 10:56:48 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 15 09:04:19 1998 Received: from falcon ([207.171.193.27] helo=falcon.slip.net) by ferret.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@slip.net id 0yPUfZ-0007FN-00; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:04:17 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net ([207.171.193.6] ident=mail) by falcon.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPUfX-0005Wk-00; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:04:15 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPUfQ-0007ED-00; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:04:08 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 08:59:02 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: SV: Garbarek album (from 1984) Resent-Message-ID: <"hxGkuD.A.IMG.llNN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5033 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:04:08 -0700 X-UIDL: 4dcb15a582d64a8c1e3dac9be652e887 >Absolutely , this album is great!! On a related subject: Has anyone >heard anything >by the "Everyman Band" (with DT)?? I believe they released an album with >Jan Garbarek >in the middle eighties. > I got the first everyman band lp as a cutout in about '85, it's great, proto-skronk fusion. Torn's playing, while not nearly as subtle and sophisticated as his current stuff, is really wild, raw and full of energy. Don't think it's ever been released on CD though. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ "...there will come a day when you won't have to use gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." -Sun Ra ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Wed Apr 15 10:56:54 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 15 09:39:28 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net ([207.171.193.21] helo=falcon.slip.net) by ferret.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@slip.net id 0yPVDZ-0003fs-00; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:39:25 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net ([207.171.193.6] ident=mail) by falcon.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPVDU-0006vq-00; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:39:20 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPVDQ-0003ek-00; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:39:16 -0700 Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:33:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Pete Koniuto To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: speaking of early Torn In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"AMR55.A.SxC._FON1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5034 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:39:16 -0700 X-UIDL: 0aa9b15e38f619d50ba522e469857699 I don't know if this was just mentioned recently, since for a spell i've only been receiving the digest version of L-D (and hence, NOT receiving L-D for a while), but i am DYING to know where i can get a hold of a recording of the early CMP release SURA. I think SURA was a Mark Nauseef record--not sure--but featured Torn, Trilok Gurtu, and Kamalesh Maitra on tabla tarang. I've never heard SURA, but one of my favorite releases from the past few years is this recording of Kamalesh Maitra accompanied by Trilok Gurtu, recorded (damn near impeccably!) by the inimitable Walter Quintus at Ztudio Zerkall of CMP notoriety. This album (a Smithsonian release) is amazing, and just the thought of these two masters on the same record as Torn sends shivers. I don't think CMP ever re-released SURA on CD. Anyone know anything about this recording? Thanks, Pete Koniuto From ???@??? Wed Apr 15 10:57:02 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 15 10:06:40 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPVdq-0007Ny-00; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 10:06:34 -0700 X-Sender: doug@mail.lightlink.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:50:12 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Doug Wyatt Subject: Re: SV: Garbarek album (from 1984) Resent-Message-ID: <"mnXPyD.A.X8F.MdON1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5036 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 10:06:34 -0700 X-UIDL: d8eb69aa9cdb005159a72aa52d18539f At 8:59 -0700 4/15/98, Dave Trenkel wrote: > >Absolutely , this album is great!! On a related subject: Has anyone > >heard anything > >by the "Everyman Band" (with DT)?? They played live a lot around here (upstate NY), NYC, Europe and I dunno where else, maybe 1982-86. In his previous bands DT had stayed a little closer to mainstream jazz/rock/fusion/blues playing (to try to reduce the amazing stuff he was doing into a few words, think Holdsworth, Hendrix and that Eastern twist we still hear today). With Everyman Band, Torn, as Dave alludes, seemed to be exploring the guitar as noisemaking machine (though not to the exclusion of melody and harmony). > >I believe they released an album with > >Jan Garbarek > >in the middle eighties. The saxophonist was Marty Fogel, whose first (I think, and only?) solo release was "Many Bobbing Heads at Last" (CMP 37), on which Torn also plays. It's a bit more jazzy. Good stuff. > I got the first everyman band lp as a cutout in about '85, it's great, > proto-skronk fusion. Torn's playing, while not nearly as subtle and > sophisticated as his current stuff, is really wild, raw and full of energy. > Don't think it's ever been released on CD though. No, but the second one, "Without Warning" (ECM 1290) was. This one has some more composed moments (even an occasional synth part), but plenty more wild Torn shredding. Doug -- Doug Wyatt doug@sonosphere.com Sonosphere (music and music software) http://www.sonosphere.com/ "Accidental Beauties" CD release: http://www.sonosphere.com/wyatt/ From ???@??? Wed Apr 15 10:57:14 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 15 10:41:43 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPWBk-0004El-00; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 10:41:36 -0700 Sender: randy@cdac.com Message-ID: <3534EF3F.D49E5207@cdac.com> Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 10:32:47 -0700 From: Randy Reichenbach Organization: Cascade Design Automation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: speaking of early Torn References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2knrZC.A.F3C.Y9ON1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5037 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 10:41:37 -0700 X-UIDL: 857665f7ce243d2efadd57bd19c3aae7 Once upon a time, Pete Koniuto wrote: > > i am DYING to know where i can get a hold of a recording > of the early CMP release SURA. > > I think SURA was a Mark Nauseef record--not sure--but > featured Torn, Trilok Gurtu, and Kamalesh Maitra on > tabla tarang. > > I don't think CMP ever re-released SURA on CD. > > Anyone know anything about this recording? > You are right, Sura is only on LP. You can view the entire CMP catalog at: http://www.move.de/cmp-records/catalogue.html CD Universe (www.cduniverse.com) has 3 David Torn CD's: Best Laid Plans Cloud About Mercury And the NEW "Collection" (Avail April 21!!!!) CDNOW (www.cdnow.com) adds: Whast Means Solid Traveller? and 3 videos -- Peace ... =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ====== = Randy Reichenbach randy@cdac.com = // || \\ =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= || || || = Physical Design Engineer (VLSI-CAD) = || //\\ || = Cascade Design Automation = \\//__\\// = 3650 131st Ave SE, Suite 650 = `------' = Bellevue, Washington 98006 = = Tel: 425.643.0200 Fax: 425.649.7600 = ... Get some! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From ???@??? Thu Apr 16 01:53:50 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 15 11:48:56 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPXEl-0004I8-00; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 11:48:47 -0700 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sprintmail.com From: "COLLINSCLAN" To: Subject: Re: SV: Garbarek album (from 1984) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 14:35:02 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd689d$33cd7920$9408bfa8@0QHC6SIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"w7-K8.A.XDD.E9PN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5038 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 11:48:47 -0700 X-UIDL: 8f1b90805683054dba949cf9a645f9dd I've heard about the Everyman Band and heard that it is very cool. Sort of an Allan Holdsworth mixted with Eddie Van Halen. I've been trying to find it. Jeff Collins -----Original Message----- From: Dave Trenkel To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Wednesday, April 15, 1998 12:02 PM Subject: Re: SV: Garbarek album (from 1984) >>Absolutely , this album is great!! On a related subject: Has anyone >>heard anything >>by the "Everyman Band" (with DT)?? I believe they released an album with >>Jan Garbarek >>in the middle eighties. >> >I got the first everyman band lp as a cutout in about '85, it's great, >proto-skronk fusion. Torn's playing, while not nearly as subtle and >sophisticated as his current stuff, is really wild, raw and full of energy. >Don't think it's ever been released on CD though. > >________________________________________________________ >Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ > >"...there will come a day when you won't have to use >gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in >your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper >type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em >together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em >together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." > -Sun Ra >________________________________________________________ > > > > From ???@??? Thu Apr 16 01:53:53 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 15 11:50:36 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net ([207.171.193.21] helo=falcon.slip.net) by ferret.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@slip.net id 0yPXGT-0004X2-00; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 11:50:33 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net ([207.171.193.6] ident=mail) by falcon.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPXGS-0004qB-00; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 11:50:32 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPXGK-0004Vx-00; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 11:50:24 -0700 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199804151842.LAA03328@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Another thought on gigging To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 11:42:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD02CA090@migarexch01.maritz.com> from "Liebig, Steuart A." at Apr 13, 98 05:45:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"iDfoaD.A.DQD.c-PN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5039 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 11:50:24 -0700 X-UIDL: 944f8f9f56a1d2aa91eac38cbdf7d8bb I know a couple of acquaintances in the San Diego area who are free improv/experimental types that used to throw house parties at their place and thus play at their own party. The house party I attended at their place was an artists' gathering. There were poetry readings, skits, short films by the filmmakers in attendance, and of course the musical performances. They had a nice scene going for a while there. Cheers, Paolo Valladolid --------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ---------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Thu Apr 16 01:54:00 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 15 12:15:15 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPXeJ-000047-00; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:15:11 -0700 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sprintmail.com From: "COLLINSCLAN" To: Subject: Re: Hackles have been raised! Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 15:01:29 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd68a0$e600a560$9408bfa8@0QHC6SIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"yz399B.A.uXG.XVQN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5041 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:15:11 -0700 X-UIDL: fffde4cf6341de64c55270ca5fa5aa9b I believe that Fripp is just really intricate with his speaking and he's trying to paint a picture with the words that he uses and he's hoping that you'll see the picture. Jeff Collins -----Original Message----- From: TritoneDW To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Wednesday, April 15, 1998 12:29 AM Subject: Re: Hackles have been raised! >About this: > ><< Overly analytical types often ruin a lot of experiences for others because >their > analysis is always either intrusive, unsolicited and often times in the case >of > "the fripp headed - ( easy generalization here ) " a way for those types to > publically show how in tune with something that everybody else is missing >> > >With this, I agree--I sort of figured you didn't mean your statement in such a >black and white way, but there are a lot of people who do think that way. > >The sort of musical "insiderism" (not a real word) which you describe can be >quite obnoxious. Lord knows there are plenty of people pulling that kind of >one-up crap. Of course, there are also certain times when an amount of "agreed >terminology" is required--talking about serialism, for example. Still, using >terms which you know others will not understand in an effort to show off your >secret occult musical knowledge is really pretty irritating. > >As an aside, I notice that lots of people are bringing up Fripp in the context >of this conversation. I have to plead ignorance on this subject--I actually >was referring more to avant-garde "classical" music in my post; Babbitt, >Ferneyhough, and the like. Apparently Fripp says things that rile people up. >:-) > >Drew W. > > From ???@??? Thu Apr 16 01:53:59 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 15 12:10:35 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPXZl-0007Ep-00; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:10:29 -0700 Message-Id: <199804151900.MAA00730@onyx.sunset.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:04:43 -0700 Subject: Siobhan Canty RE: Looper CD From: "Finley Sound Design" To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VcQxrD.A.x8F.gSQN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5040 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:10:29 -0700 X-UIDL: 50ef7889123e1f72eeb332999981c2af Siobhan, Are you out there? I need to contact regarding the Looper CD Project. Apparently you are not getting my private email. Matt __________________________________ Matthew F. McCabe Finley Sound Design http://www.joshuanet.com/marathon From ???@??? Thu Apr 16 01:54:03 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 15 12:33:43 1998 Received: from falcon ([207.171.193.27] helo=falcon.slip.net) by ferret.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@slip.net id 0yPXw8-0002ZY-00; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:33:36 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net ([207.171.193.6] ident=mail) by falcon.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPXw3-0006z8-00; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:33:31 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPXvv-0002Xh-00; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:33:23 -0700 X-Sender: bkettles@sfpo.macromedia.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3534EF3F.D49E5207@cdac.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:16:18 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Buzz Kettles Subject: Re: speaking of early Torn Resent-Message-ID: <"hakc7.A.UVB.WmQN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5043 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:33:23 -0700 X-UIDL: 61222c9afdc572613511fa933ac778e5 somebody mention the older Dave Torn catalogue ? He also used to be in these bands: Everyman Band (on ECM) Zobo Funn Band (& my personal favorite:) the Obvious Blankos -Buzz Buzz Kettles - buzz@macromedia.com Director, Shockwave, SWA and Audio R&D From ???@??? Thu Apr 16 01:54:02 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 15 12:33:20 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPXvq-0002X8-00; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:33:18 -0700 X-Sender: bkettles@sfpo.macromedia.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <01bd6752$cc7a7ac0$4408bfa8@0QHC6SIA> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:18:09 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Buzz Kettles Subject: Re: Re[2]: Fred Frith Resent-Message-ID: <"w0rZqB.A.rUB.TmQN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5042 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:33:18 -0700 X-UIDL: 64eb9d07340dd88a9e06e7c567ce8afb Quartets or Ayaya Moses ? (I like both) -Buzz >Buzz, >I am a BIG Fred Frith fan. And thanks for the info. Have you checked the >guitar quartet cd? Amazing. >Jeff Collins >-----Original Message----- >From: Buzz Kettles >To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >Date: Monday, April 13, 1998 10:01 PM >Subject: Re[2]: Fred Frith > > >>This is available on CD - >>It also includes FF's selections from gtr solos 2 & 3 ... >> >>there WAS tape delay in places - >>later on (1980?) FF moved to a mixer (HH?) that had built in DDL echo ... >> >>-Buzz >> >>> I'm only really familiar with Fred's work from the period of Henry >Cow >>> (for whom I failed the audition as bassist!) up to the Art Bears, but >>> if you ever see a copy of his GUITAR SOLOS (1974 - Caroline in the >>> UK), then invest immediately. >>> >>> Its some while since I've heard it, but I suspect at last part of it >>> was recorded with some form of tape delay device (the original sleeve >>> notes comment that most/all performances are live apart from one >track >>> which had two notes edited out) - anyone know anything more on this? >>> >>> I recall he used various `prepared' guitar techniques - alligator >>> clips on the strings etc, but also had an additional pick-up attached >>> to the head stock of his guitar, which could `pick up' the sound of >>> the string's vibrations from `behind' the left hand fingers, >achieving >>> a duet/harmonised effect (sort of). >>> >>> GUITAR SOLOS 2 (with G.F. Fitzgerald, Hans Reichel, and Derek >Bailey) >>> had a few diagrams of recording techniques - placing speakers under a >>> piano's lid and taping the resonance etc. plus >>> >>> David >> >> >> >> >> From ???@??? Thu Apr 16 01:54:04 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 15 12:49:28 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPYBP-0004e8-00; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:49:23 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:40:16 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: speaking of early Torn Resent-Message-ID: <"KoSiHB.A.EOD.r0QN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5044 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:49:23 -0700 X-UIDL: 634354553f80952d16a904881144c2f8 >somebody mention the older Dave Torn catalogue ? > >He also used to be in these bands: >Everyman Band (on ECM) >Zobo Funn Band >(& my personal favorite:) the Obvious Blankos Another cool early Torn album is his duets with Geoffrey Gordon, Best Laid Plans, also on ECM. I think it's got some of the closest Torn has ever gotten to Free Jazz, but still maintains a rockish edge. > >-Buzz > > Buzz Kettles - buzz@macromedia.com > Director, Shockwave, SWA and Audio R&D ~~~~~~~~~ Hey, would you have any impact on reviving the Deck II program Macromedia bought then abandonned? ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ "...there will come a day when you won't have to use gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." -Sun Ra ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Thu Apr 16 01:54:05 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 15 12:49:39 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPYBY-0004fV-00; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:49:32 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:40:18 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: SV: Garbarek album (from 1984) Resent-Message-ID: <"ydIXmB.A.1OD.u0QN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5045 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:49:32 -0700 X-UIDL: 65f49913976b2f22ef73a6c17e6c76f8 >I've heard about the Everyman Band and heard that it is very cool. Sort of >an Allan Holdsworth mixted with Eddie Van Halen. >I've been trying to find it. >Jeff Collins I'd personally prefer the Everyman Band to either Holdsworth or Van Halen, it's much rawer than either, doesn't have Holdsworth annoyingly pointless compositions and anal production, and, unlike Van Halen, the stuff around the guitar solos is interesting too. hehe, sure to lite a few fuses with that one :-) ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ "...there will come a day when you won't have to use gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." -Sun Ra ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Wed Apr 15 10:56:59 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 15 09:52:33 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPVQC-0005TM-00; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:52:28 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.2.16.19980415124601.35b77e5a@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: km15@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (16) -- [Cornell Modified] Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:46:01 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kevin Miller Subject: Re: SV: Garbarek album (from 1984) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"tHf9zD.A._dE.YSON1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5035 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:52:28 -0700 X-UIDL: af4fe86a2a84436c1a0932db3bc96c10 At 08:59 AM 4/15/98 -0700, you wrote: >>Absolutely , this album is great!! On a related subject: Has anyone >>heard anything >>by the "Everyman Band" (with DT)?? I believe they released an album with >>Jan Garbarek >>in the middle eighties. The Everyman Band put on some great shows here in Ithaca, dt's home town. I could always be assured of hearing some absolutely jaw-dropping playing by torn. You done made us proud, dt! Kevin From ???@??? Thu Apr 16 01:54:13 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 15 13:31:09 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net ([207.171.193.21] helo=falcon.slip.net) by ferret.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@slip.net id 0yPYpo-0002Ea-00; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 13:31:08 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net ([207.171.193.6] ident=mail) by falcon.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPYpo-00019s-00; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 13:31:08 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPYpl-0002ED-00; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 13:31:05 -0700 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sprintmail.com From: "COLLINSCLAN" To: Subject: Re: Re[2]: Fred Frith Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 16:19:24 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd68ab$c881fba0$1808bfa8@0QHC6SIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"IgJoP.A.-UB.ieRN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5046 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 13:31:05 -0700 X-UIDL: d716fd10a4c37744679f35467ebb4655 So far the one I've heard is Ayaya Moses. I'm really trying to get ahold of his Guitar Solos disc but i'm so tied up trying to buy cd's from those I haven't heard yet. You know what I'm talking about? Jeff -----Original Message----- From: Buzz Kettles To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Wednesday, April 15, 1998 3:29 PM Subject: Re: Re[2]: Fred Frith >Quartets or Ayaya Moses ? >(I like both) >-Buzz > >>Buzz, >>I am a BIG Fred Frith fan. And thanks for the info. Have you checked the >>guitar quartet cd? Amazing. >>Jeff Collins >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Buzz Kettles >>To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >>Date: Monday, April 13, 1998 10:01 PM >>Subject: Re[2]: Fred Frith >> >> >>>This is available on CD - >>>It also includes FF's selections from gtr solos 2 & 3 ... >>> >>>there WAS tape delay in places - >>>later on (1980?) FF moved to a mixer (HH?) that had built in DDL echo ... >>> >>>-Buzz >>> >>>> I'm only really familiar with Fred's work from the period of Henry >>Cow >>>> (for whom I failed the audition as bassist!) up to the Art Bears, but >>>> if you ever see a copy of his GUITAR SOLOS (1974 - Caroline in the >>>> UK), then invest immediately. >>>> >>>> Its some while since I've heard it, but I suspect at last part of it >>>> was recorded with some form of tape delay device (the original sleeve >>>> notes comment that most/all performances are live apart from one >>track >>>> which had two notes edited out) - anyone know anything more on this? >>>> >>>> I recall he used various `prepared' guitar techniques - alligator >>>> clips on the strings etc, but also had an additional pick-up attached >>>> to the head stock of his guitar, which could `pick up' the sound of >>>> the string's vibrations from `behind' the left hand fingers, >>achieving >>>> a duet/harmonised effect (sort of). >>>> >>>> GUITAR SOLOS 2 (with G.F. Fitzgerald, Hans Reichel, and Derek >>Bailey) >>>> had a few diagrams of recording techniques - placing speakers under a >>>> piano's lid and taping the resonance etc. plus >>>> >>>> David >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > > > > From ???@??? Thu Apr 16 01:54:19 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 15 13:53:24 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net ([207.171.193.21] helo=falcon.slip.net) by ferret.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@slip.net id 0yPZBC-00053B-00; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 13:53:14 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net ([207.171.193.6] ident=mail) by falcon.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPZB9-0002H9-00; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 13:53:11 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPZAu-00050N-00; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 13:52:56 -0700 X-Sender: doug@mail.lightlink.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 16:46:46 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Doug Wyatt Subject: Re: speaking of early Torn Resent-Message-ID: <"jts6K.A.mzD.9xRN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5047 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 13:52:56 -0700 X-UIDL: 3a753fce1f2e7aa8fceb3110470215aa At 12:40 -0700 4/15/98, Dave Trenkel wrote: > >somebody mention the older Dave Torn catalogue ? > > > >He also used to be in these bands: > >Everyman Band (on ECM) > >Zobo Funn Band > >(& my personal favorite:) the Obvious Blankos that was the *Odious* Blankos :) summer of '80? > Another cool early Torn album is his duets with Geoffrey Gordon, Best Laid > Plans, also on ECM. I think it's got some of the closest Torn has ever > gotten to Free Jazz, but still maintains a rockish edge. Yes, I think this one is still available too. Doug -- Doug Wyatt software development, Opcode Systems Inc. work: doug@opcode.com http://www.opcode.com/ personal: doug@sonosphere.com http://www.sonosphere.com/ From ???@??? Thu Apr 16 01:54:20 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 15 14:09:16 1998 Received: from falcon ([207.171.193.27] helo=falcon.slip.net) by ferret.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@slip.net id 0yPZQV-00073f-00; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 14:09:03 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net ([207.171.193.6] ident=mail) by falcon.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPZQO-00036s-00; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 14:08:56 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPZQ7-00070t-00; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 14:08:39 -0700 X-Sender: bkettles@sfpo.macromedia.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 14:01:12 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Buzz Kettles Subject: Re: speaking of early Torn Resent-Message-ID: <"1vt5NB.A.j0F.PBSN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5048 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 14:08:39 -0700 X-UIDL: f82be046d21ea159c5e33a9596706a14 Dave - You know I can't answer those kind of questions ... -Buzz >>-Buzz >> >> Buzz Kettles - buzz@macromedia.com >> Director, Shockwave, SWA and Audio R&D > ~~~~~~~~~ > >Hey, would you have any impact on reviving the Deck II program Macromedia >bought then abandonned? > >________________________________________________________ >Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ > >"...there will come a day when you won't have to use >gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in >your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper >type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em >together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em >together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." > -Sun Ra >________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Thu Apr 16 01:54:35 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 15 15:43:31 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPati-0003nN-00; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 15:43:18 -0700 Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 18:34:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199804152234.SAA20728@cliff.concentric.net> X-Sender: hideo@pop3.concentric.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Tom Lambrecht Subject: Re: Garbarek Resent-Message-ID: <"xQtpk.A.ykC.sYTN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5049 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 15:43:19 -0700 X-UIDL: 405de68a77361f55dad55d24b20af903 also to check-- "Paths, Prints . . . " from 1982 with Bill Frisell and the ECM Euro-beat section of Eberhard Weber on bass and Jon Christensen on drums I like the stuff from this period the best of JG's output Tom At 11:30 PM 4/14/98 -0400, you wrote: >hey.. > >anyone familiar with "it's Ok to listen to the grey voice" (sic) by Jan >Garbarek, featuring the loverly gittar of Mr DT ??? > >Just - re-familiarized meself with it tonite - great album!!! > >some diff'rent stuff than what i've been listening to from Torn (i been >spinning mostly the new BLUE, Tripping, What Means? and various Karn and >Polytown) - this garbarek date has a lot more 'clean' arpeggios and some >truly sick solos - sparse but dense when they happen... and *lo!!* some >guitar synth from DT... Jan's smmoth sax tone has always been a fave- and >is why i grabbed this years ago - not real familiar with DT at the time.... > >anyway - recommended if ya don't have it > >andre' > > > Tom Lambrecht hideo@concentric.net From ???@??? Thu Apr 16 01:54:48 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 15 18:01:09 1998 Received: from falcon ([207.171.193.27] helo=falcon.slip.net) by ferret.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@slip.net id 0yPd34-0003ed-00; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 18:01:06 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net ([207.171.193.6] ident=mail) by falcon.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPauG-0007jz-00; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 15:43:52 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPau6-0003qp-00; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 15:43:42 -0700 Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 18:35:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199804152235.SAA20766@cliff.concentric.net> X-Sender: hideo@pop3.concentric.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Tom Lambrecht Subject: Re: Lanois/Reeves Resent-Message-ID: <"pHF1q.A.DlC.uYTN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5050 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 15:43:42 -0700 X-UIDL: d11f8333255e4f3c5665f4ac55fc88c1 that is a great story about a great disc . . . I saw DL at the NO Jazz and Heritage Fest in '89 and tho' it was a short set to a somehat boisterous audience, it was magic--that was about the time of the release of the album and he did most of the cuts on it . . . I recorded the set and its amazing how much of the atmosphere (with the trademark Lanois capital "A") of the album he manged to capture live . . . Tom SNIP I feel like a drowning man reaching the surface. Life is good. > >I whip out my Daniel Lanois cd`s and put on "Acadie". My heart skips a beat as the conversation in the room stops. Everyone listens attentively. They all get a surprised look >on their faces. My mum asks who this is. "daniel lanois" I tell them , in my best french accent. >Noone says a word. > >Then magic happens. > >They LOVE it!!!!!! They absolutely love it! My mom starts speaking french to show us that SNI >Yours , Thomas Woehni , Oslo Norway........ > > > > Tom Lambrecht hideo@concentric.net From ???@??? Thu Apr 16 01:54:54 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 15 19:34:34 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net ([207.171.193.21] helo=falcon.slip.net) by ferret.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@slip.net id 0yPeVU-0004x2-00; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 19:34:32 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net ([207.171.193.6] ident=mail) by falcon.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPdUn-0006LJ-00; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 18:29:45 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPdUf-0006hx-00; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 18:29:37 -0700 Message-ID: <35355F92.2D89@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 18:32:02 -0700 From: Andre LaFosse Reply-To: altruist@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: speaking of early Torn References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"0UQzxB.A.OkF.t2VN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5051 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 18:29:37 -0700 X-UIDL: 0d49c0719079e26cf13fece2ac98f5a6 Pete Koniuto wrote: > I think SURA was a Mark Nauseef record--not sure--but > featured Torn, Trilok Gurtu, and Kamalesh Maitra on > tabla tarang. > Anyone know anything about this recording? It's a Mark Nauseef album. You can get more info at Nauseef's home page, which he shares with Miroslav Tadic (another frequent Torn collaborator): http://shoko.calarts.edu/~snakes Mark and Miroslav are making their recordings available over the Net, so you might be able to order it direct from the artist. You can e-mail them at snakes@shoko.calarts.edu for more info. The CMP catalog is also available via The Artist Shop at http://www.artist-shop.com Good luck. --Andre From ???@??? Thu Apr 16 01:55:01 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 15 21:49:50 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPgcN-0000X9-00; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 21:49:47 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19980416022944.00983b14@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: gls@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 21:29:44 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Grover Sheffield Subject: Re: EDP function problem Resent-Message-ID: <"F7hJWD.A.yH.n0YN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5053 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 21:49:47 -0700 X-UIDL: b4267553fad785df8a958d8cb1438389 At 09:25 PM 4/13/98 -0700, you wrote: >you've got it in delay mode. Go to the Loop/Delay parameter and switch it >back to Loop mode. > >kim > Thanks Obie-wan. Worked like a charm - I didn't realize I had changed it to delay. I haven't even begun to use all the software you guys put into this unit. I'm playing with the reverse function, but am NOT trying that in public yet. Is there a way to stop the loop and then restart it from the start (did I miss this in the FAQ?)? I've used mute, and discovered that my timing is ....ummm, *syncopated* when I bring the loop back from mute. Grover >At 08:56 PM 4/13/98 -0500, Grover Sheffield wrote: >>I've started working an EDP into a weekly restaurant gig, just noodling over >>diatonic chord changes with tension and release stuff. No one has stopped >>eating and walked out; there has even been some interest - "play that thing >>again"! >> Problem: I just replaced my 4 Mb chips with 16 Mb SIMMs. The EDP >>memory has indeed come up to 198 seconds (wonderful stuff, memory) >>HOWEVER... the unit NOW records in overdub mode even after I've hit the >>record switch to shut record off UNLESS I hit the overdub switch, then it >>doesn't overdub!!! Ididn't realize it until I started playing the gig last >>night, and it happened several times. Fortunantly, overdubbing sounds good, >>but WHAT HAVE I DONE? WHAT DO I NEED TO DO?? Calling Obie-wan.... >> >> TIA.... Grover >_______________________________________________________ >Kim Flint 408-752-9284 >Mpact Systems Engineering kflint@chromatic.com >Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com > > > From ???@??? Thu Apr 16 01:54:56 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 15 19:40:30 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPebD-0005fO-00; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 19:40:27 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19980416023504.009830e0@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: gls@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 21:35:04 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Grover Sheffield Subject: Re: SV: loopers wishlist Resent-Message-ID: <"G2s_W.A.y5E.P7WN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5052 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 19:40:27 -0700 X-UIDL: e51b1a94de4874538a4550f9caf62012 >I agree with both of you but Michael saved my day when he spoke on behalf of us >"slow techs". Thanks Mike! Now make the bloody tapes , will ya??!!??!! :-) > >Yours , Thomas > At the risk of exposing my intellectual laziness, I'd welcome instructional video or audiotapes, too. Also, what's the status on the looper CDs? I'd love to listen and "steal from the best". :-) From ???@??? Thu Apr 16 01:55:06 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 15 23:00:46 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPhj2-0005OH-00; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 23:00:44 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980416055752.009ac4c8@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 22:57:52 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: EDP function problem Resent-Message-ID: <"FXE3DC.A.AvE.V3ZN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5054 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 23:00:44 -0700 X-UIDL: a57fb836a88d01a9f4444c28478dcb2f At 09:29 PM 4/15/98 -0500, Grover Sheffield wrote: > > >At 09:25 PM 4/13/98 -0700, you wrote: >>you've got it in delay mode. Go to the Loop/Delay parameter and switch it >>back to Loop mode. >> >>kim >> > >Thanks Obie-wan. >Worked like a charm - I didn't realize I had changed it to delay. I haven't >even begun to use all the software you guys put into this unit. I'm playing >with the reverse function, but am NOT trying that in public yet. Is there a >way to stop the loop and then restart it from the start (did I miss this in >the FAQ?)? I've used mute, and discovered that my timing is ....ummm, >*syncopated* when I bring the loop back from mute. > >Grover > > When you are in mute, there are four different ways to come out of it: 1) unmute. press the mute button again, and the loop audio comes back on wherever it happens to be at that moment. It's as if it kept going but you had the sound off. 2) restart and continue. When it is muted, press Undo. the loop will start at the beginning and continue. 3) restart and play once. When it is in mute, press insert. The loop will start at it's beginning, play one time, and go back to mute. While it is playing you can press Insert again, which will restart the loop for retriggering and stuttering effects. 4) external trigger. From mute, press multiply. A trigger on the BeatSync jack will then start the loop, in the same retriggering/play-once fasion as 3). This trigger could come from a drum pad or a momentary foot pedal or whatever. The one you want is number 2. If this is the primary way you expect to be unmuting, we have the MuteMode parameter to make it more convenient for you. MuteMode basically lets you swap 1) and 2) above. This way, you only need to use the mute button to mute the loop and unmute it from the beginning, and you don't need to bother remembering what all the other cross-function buttons do. So if you change the MuteMode parameter to "start", using the mute button to unmute starts the loop it at the beginning and then continues. kim ________________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 Mpact System Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Thu Apr 16 10:38:56 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 16 03:00:20 1998 Received: from falcon ([207.171.193.27] helo=falcon.slip.net) by ferret.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@slip.net id 0yPlSt-0001lv-00; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 03:00:19 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net ([207.171.193.6] ident=mail) by falcon.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPjaJ-0001OY-00; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 00:59:51 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPjaI-0004EH-00; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 00:59:50 -0700 Message-Id: <199804160756.QAA28841@mail.st.rim.or.jp> Subject: Re: speaking of early Torn Date: Thu, 16 Apr 98 16:59:22 +0900 x-sender: liminal@mail.st.rim.or.jp x-mailer: Claris Emailer-J 1.1 From: Yoshi matsumoto To: , Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"L1LLPC.A.enD.2mbN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5055 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 00:59:50 -0700 X-UIDL: d8a7937d3590fe77427b75278b741cfc >Once upon a time, Pete Koniuto wrote: >> >> i am DYING to know where i can get a hold of a recording >> of the early CMP release SURA. >> >> I think SURA was a Mark Nauseef record--not sure--but >> featured Torn, Trilok Gurtu, and Kamalesh Maitra on >> tabla tarang. >> >> I don't think CMP ever re-released SURA on CD. >> >> Anyone know anything about this recording? Hmm. I have Sura on CD. I have the Japanese release, so maybe the CD was made avail. in Japan only. To further complicate things, the record company here, Jimco, went out of business, so I doubt the Japanese CD is still in print. The recording sounds more conventional jazz recording-ish to me. There are noticeable edits, too, and I don't think the CD has the 'magic' sound quality that more recent CMP releases have. Dunno, maybe it's just bad mastering on the Japanese side... (the later Nauseef releases sound *much* better) The compositions have a 'composed ensemble free(r) jazz' feel to it -- what sound like structured jazz chords and predetermined free improv sections within each piece (I'm not a jazz performer, so I can't be precise in my explanation). Over the music Mr. Torn does his usual thing... with less (or no?) loops, this was '83, but his guitar wailings have the same quality as what we hear now. In terms of the musical idioms represented, I don't think we hear much non-Western traditional musics here that the instruments may suggest... Mark Nauseef "Sura": the catalog number is JICK-89728, company name Jimco Japan Corp. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Grass doesn't grow on busy streets. -Edvard Graham Lewis * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Yoshi Matsumoto email: liminal@st.rim.or.jp web: http://www.at-m.or.jp/~liminal * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From ???@??? Thu Apr 16 10:39:12 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 16 07:14:01 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPpQN-0007mk-00; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 07:13:59 -0700 Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 03:41:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Stew Benedict Subject: OT: Baltimore/DC shows this weekend To: stickwire-l@netcom.com cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <85EABD4221C4D1119CC900805FE2C77C046750@EXCSTO-01.sto.eur.compaq.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"25sCnD.A.d5G.TFhN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5057 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 07:13:59 -0700 X-UIDL: bd4e7c44f33a3b4477b3930f0ab7e9b0 Hey All, I'm flying out east for the Baltimore B.L.U.E. show Friday and the Looper/Stick show in DC Sat. I'd love to touch base with any of you tappers/loopers while I'm there. Tim(on Stickwire), which "middle" guy are you in that picture? My picture's on my page listed below, I'm about 6'3", and I'll be with my wife, a 5'2" redhead. Tap/Loop On! Stew Benedict www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/8608/ From ???@??? Thu Apr 16 10:39:03 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 16 04:41:44 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPn31-0006o6-00; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 04:41:43 -0700 Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 07:35:52 -0400 From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@compuserve.com> Subject: More recent Torn Sender: Jon Durant <74074.1316@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Message-ID: <199804160738_MC2-3A0F-5550@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"jUotZD.A._JG.i3eN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5056 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 04:41:43 -0700 X-UIDL: facdd67d1f119276b7f14ee90e2a08a2 If I may, I'd actually like to recommend some of his more recent efforts, though they are as sideman/producer. In particular, his playing on Brian Gingrich's "The White Rim of Heaven" is tremendous, and the whole album is well worth checking out. This album, along with the Robby Aceto "Code" CD, and Caryn Lin's "Tolerance for Ambiguity" (both produced by Torn) are available at most decent stores (though, not always, as we find out on a daily basis) and direct from Alchemy (www.alchemyrecords.com; 800-292-6932). Yeah, OK, I'm biased towards them, but DT, as always, is well in evidence on these recordings. One with which I have no affiliation is the delightful pop record "Big TOp Shop Talk" by McKinley. Torn produced and played all over this record. A very cool effort. Oh, and then there's the stunning "Discord" by Ryuichi Sakamoto. This is the orchestral effort w/Torn and DJ Spooky creating atmospherics. Wow, what a gorgeous record. Torn's buried in the mix, but it's still a great record. Later, Jon Durant From ???@??? Thu Apr 16 11:58:21 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 16 11:54:22 1998 Received: from falcon ([207.171.193.27] helo=falcon.slip.net) by ferret.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@slip.net id 0yPtnZ-0007AK-00; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 11:54:13 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net ([207.171.193.6] ident=mail) by falcon.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPtnW-0004Wk-00; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 11:54:10 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPtnP-00078y-00; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 11:54:03 -0700 Message-ID: <3535F8EC.C14F369C@nyfac.com> Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 13:26:21 +0100 From: tdbajus Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Rebirth of cool? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"DmbkMB.A.X1F.KIlN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5063 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 11:54:03 -0700 X-UIDL: 9d37a482d93ddccf54dce111fcc5085a Dave Trenkel wrote: > >I've heard about the Everyman Band and heard that it is very cool. Sort of > >an Allan Holdsworth mixted with Eddie Van Halen. This has nothing to do with anything, but I was checking out a band the other day, and I had to sit through this excruciatingly bad eighties style band that turns out to be led by one of the guys from A-ha. He did a tapped solo, just to round out the time warp. I laughed, I cried... I mostly laughed, though. Trevor From ???@??? Thu Apr 16 11:58:11 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 16 10:50:53 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net ([207.171.193.21] helo=falcon.slip.net) by ferret.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@slip.net id 0yPsoB-00079D-00; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 10:50:47 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net ([207.171.193.6] ident=mail) by falcon.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPrVV-0005fG-00; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 09:27:25 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPrVM-00057E-00; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 09:27:16 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Ott, John" To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: More recent Torn Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 10:04:56 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Resent-Message-ID: <"A9QrcC.A.9GE.YAjN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5059 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 09:27:16 -0700 X-UIDL: 824c3075a2ec6807ecd199986121ffbf I would also recommend the new Bruford Levin Upper Extremities with DT and Chris Botti. I saw them last night at the Birchmere (also will be going to the Orion Shows on Friday) Great stuff (both on Record and the live versions) You can order from Papa Bear direct if you can't find it in your local store. http://www.papabear.com DT had two echoplexes last night and was amazing. I had not heard Botti before but was impressed, reminds me of pre-fusion Miles Davis. Buford and Levin were brilliant as usual. I really enjoyed the show. later John > ---------- > From: Jon Durant > Reply To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Sent: Thursday, April 16, 1998 6:40 AM > To: John_Ott@ATK.COM > Subject: More recent Torn > > If I may, I'd actually like to recommend some of his more recent > efforts, > though they are as sideman/producer. In particular, his playing on > Brian > Gingrich's "The White Rim of Heaven" is tremendous, and the whole > album is > well worth checking out. This album, along with the Robby Aceto "Code" > CD, > and Caryn Lin's "Tolerance for Ambiguity" (both produced by Torn) are > available at most decent stores (though, not always, as we find out on > a > daily basis) and direct from Alchemy (www.alchemyrecords.com; > 800-292-6932). Yeah, OK, I'm biased towards them, but DT, as always, > is > well in evidence on these recordings. > > One with which I have no affiliation is the delightful pop record "Big > TOp > Shop Talk" by McKinley. Torn produced and played all over this record. > A > very cool effort. > > Oh, and then there's the stunning "Discord" by Ryuichi Sakamoto. This > is > the orchestral effort w/Torn and DJ Spooky creating atmospherics. Wow, > what > a gorgeous record. Torn's buried in the mix, but it's still a great > record. > > Later, > Jon Durant > From ???@??? Thu Apr 16 10:39:19 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 16 08:51:04 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPqwH-0000rR-00; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 08:51:01 -0700 Message-Id: <199804161545.AAA13940@mail.st.rim.or.jp> Subject: Re: More recent Torn Date: Fri, 17 Apr 98 00:48:17 +0900 x-sender: liminal@mail.st.rim.or.jp x-mailer: Claris Emailer-J 1.1 From: Yoshi matsumoto To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"keqQjB.A.5I.deiN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5058 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 08:51:01 -0700 X-UIDL: b916a54b3c2784f86ce11be8adbc2495 The two releases I found most attracted by from the Alchemy catalog are Robby Aceto's "Code" and "Silent Extinction Beyond the Zero" by Mr. Durant himself. I do agree, I very much enjoy DT's recent efforts compared to his earlier works. One work I'm endlessly fond of is Mark Isham's soundtrack to "Beast", where DT's sounds really shine. >One with which I have no affiliation is the delightful pop record "Big TOp >Shop Talk" by McKinley. Torn produced and played all over this record. A >very cool effort. I do wonder what this album sounds like...? >Oh, and then there's the stunning "Discord" by Ryuichi Sakamoto. This is >the orchestral effort w/Torn and DJ Spooky creating atmospherics. Wow, what >a gorgeous record. Torn's buried in the mix, but it's still a great record. Yes, I found the mix unsatifying for the same reason. "Gorgeous", though, is definitely the right word for the album as a whole... * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Grass doesn't grow on busy streets. -Edvard Graham Lewis * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Yoshi Matsumoto email: liminal@st.rim.or.jp web: http://www.at-m.or.jp/~liminal * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From ???@??? Thu Apr 16 10:39:29 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 16 10:29:38 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPsTe-0004VA-00; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 10:29:34 -0700 Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 13:22:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Pete Koniuto To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: More recent Torn In-Reply-To: <199804161545.AAA13940@mail.st.rim.or.jp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"KwxZhB.A.IWD.L5jN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5060 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 10:29:34 -0700 X-UIDL: c8f4cde5e73989e0d7f53a94e9e5a902 On Fri, 17 Apr 1998, Yoshi matsumoto wrote: > One work I'm endlessly fond of is Mark Isham's soundtrack to "Beast", > where DT's sounds really shine. Torn mentioned this film back in 1993, so i rented it. Yeah, he's all over it--great work. I didn't know the soundtrack was available though. Anyone seen it recently? And as for being less than 100% satisfied with SURA, would you like to part with it for a small fee? (Smiley faces and all that) Pete Koniuto From ???@??? Thu Apr 16 21:05:41 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 16 13:28:17 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPvGX-0002bM-00; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 13:28:13 -0700 Message-ID: <19980416173104.27383.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [199.80.70.98] From: "alice crash" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Digitech TSR12 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 10:31:04 PDT Resent-Message-ID: <"qpaixD.A.KfB.kfmN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5065 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 13:28:13 -0700 X-UIDL: f726c5a0aa2babd28e92e9d913b5dc68 the best thing i ever did with my didgitek signal prtocessors is burn them in a hot fire ang record the crackling for future samples.... >From lists@slip.net Sun Apr 12 06:38:40 1998 >Received: from ferret.slip.net ([207.171.193.6] ident=mail) > by falcon.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) > for alicecrsh@hotmail.com > id 0yOMxz-00031J-00; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 06:38:39 -0700 >Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) > for alicecrsh@hotmail.com > id 0yOMxt-0002NK-00; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 06:38:33 -0700 >Message-ID: >Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 14:26:46 +0100 >To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >From: babs >Subject: Digitech TSR12 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >X-Mailer: Turnpike Trial Version 3.03a >Resent-Message-ID: <"3aobXC.A.9IC.fOMM1"@ferret> >Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4986 >Precedence: list >Resent-Sender: SmartList >Resent-To: alicecrsh@hotmail.com >Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 06:38:33 -0700 > >My old delay finally went to the graveyard of rack units in the sky. >So I've been on the lookout for a replacement and found an unused TSR12 >in a local music shop for a reasonable price, so is anyone out there >using one in their rig or does anyone have any comments on the TSR12? > >Babs > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Thu Apr 16 11:58:19 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 16 11:37:36 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPtXA-00052L-00; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 11:37:16 -0700 From: "Woehni" To: Subject: SV: SV: Garbarek album (from 1984) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 20:27:04 +0200 Message-ID: <01bd6965$414b28e0$55024382@pentium-200> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"qeFUNC.A.y6D.j4kN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5061 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 11:37:16 -0700 X-UIDL: 8606c249bb3760c438e7b2aa95d29ba4 > >I'd personally prefer the Everyman Band to either Holdsworth or Van Halen, >it's much rawer than either, doesn't have Holdsworth annoyingly pointless >compositions and anal production, and, unlike Van Halen, the stuff around >the guitar solos is interesting too. Speaking of Holdsworth: What I love about him is his chordal playing. I saw him live here in Oslo a while back and (as usual) he had a small mountain of gear behind him. I know the magic of his playing lies in his hands and mind but I am wondering; Have any of had any luck getting that big lushy chordal sound he gets , with a small amount of gear??? I`m talking a sound that is wide and BIG , without beeing to "time-travelling" , as in: he plays a beutiful chord and when he lifts his fingers the sound stops.......not like a delay that goes on and on. Yours , Thomas From ???@??? Thu Apr 16 11:58:20 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 16 11:47:52 1998 Received: from falcon ([207.171.193.27] helo=falcon.slip.net) by ferret.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@slip.net id 0yPthJ-0006Mf-00; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 11:47:45 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net ([207.171.193.6] ident=mail) by falcon.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPthF-00046z-00; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 11:47:41 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPth7-0006L9-00; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 11:47:33 -0700 From: "Woehni" To: Subject: SV: Lanois/Reeves Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 20:37:03 +0200 Message-ID: <01bd6966$a64eba80$55024382@pentium-200> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"ZMq3d.A.KBF.sBlN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5062 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 11:47:33 -0700 X-UIDL: 069c8db36a0d093af55b6a0a529a1442 . I recorded >the set and its amazing how much of the atmosphere (with the trademark >Lanois capital "A") of the album he manged to capture live . . . > >Tom Yeah , that atmosphere is what drew me in.......how does he do it?? (you dont have to answer that.) BTW, for those of you who feel that we are venturing into off-topicality I`m happy to inform you that Mr. Lanois is the proud owner of a Boomerang. So there........... (My inquiries on wether or not Mr. Jim Reeves has gotten the hang of his Echoplexi and E-bows has gone unanswered...........) Thomas From ???@??? Thu Apr 16 21:06:19 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 16 19:22:24 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQ0nD-0006cH-00; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 19:22:19 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 20:41:28 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: AUDIENCE Needed for DC Loop Show Resent-Message-ID: <"S0NLGD.A.WdF.strN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5073 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 19:22:19 -0700 X-UIDL: 683bc74511ddbd6d9139abd3b81e3ef6 One more pitch for the show this weekend. We've heard much discussion of show's and lack of audience this week , so let's all you locals support the DC Loop Show On Saturday April 18th. Another incentive. IF this is successful we'll be able to stage more show's at Joe's Movement Emporium, a very adventurous dance studio that puts on some amazing shows. So support the art's, support one another. >For more details see: www.fingerpaint.net/loop.html > >Mt. Ranier, MD - Joe's Movement Emporium will be hosting the DC Version of >the Mid-Atlantic Loop Show. Looped music is the inclusion of >electronically-assisted repetition of audio material. The music is often >experimental in nature and encompasses a wide range of compositional and >performance styles. > > The performance will take place at Joe's Movement Emporium, 3802 34th >St., Mt. Rainier, MD 20712, on Saturday April 18th at 8pm. > >Following in the tradition of tape loop systems pioneered by Robert Fripp >and Brian Eno, these three groups of artists are exploring and pushing the >boundaries of loop based music. Each group uses long digital delays in >different fashions and with different instrumentation to produce a textural >musical soundscape. > >Paul Mimlitsch form Vincentown, NJ, uses the Chapman Stick to produce loops >of beautiful washes of sound upon which he and percussionist Jody Janetta >overly rhythms and solos. > >Fingerpaint consists of Steev Geest and Patrick Smith, from Takoma Park, >MD. They drive various analog and digital synths from their guitars. Their >improvisatory soundscapes have been described as "sinister and alien" >(Philadelphia City Paper) > >Siobahn Canty and... uses looped voice in a somewhat more traditional >line-up of Drumstick, bass, and sax. Siobahn's ethereal vocal loops are >complimented by the group. A great opportunity to see Eric "Doc" Smith's >Drumstick in action. This is an instrument he designed to trigger >percussion samples and melodies. > >Please forward as you see appropriate. > >Patrick *** *** ** Fingerpaint http://www.his.com/~patrick/FNGP.html *** ** From ???@??? Thu Apr 16 21:05:36 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 16 12:16:06 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPu8G-0001nC-00; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 12:15:36 -0700 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sprintmail.com From: "COLLINSCLAN" To: Subject: Re: SV: Garbarek album (from 1984) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 14:59:07 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd6969$bbd198c0$4a08bfa8@0QHC6SIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"lr6HQD.A.-o.QZlN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5064 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 12:15:36 -0700 X-UIDL: efdcd1987a5e2bb99fd07c13be5a5a0f The funny thing about Holdsworth is that he claims those effects are all very short delays that are augmented by his playing. He's also got a little bit of equiptment that he makes himself. The guy always blow my mind. I've got some video of him playing the Synthaxe, It is nuts. Have you seen his instructional video. It's scary. Jeff Collins collinsclan@sprintmail.com -----Original Message----- From: Woehni To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Thursday, April 16, 1998 2:33 PM Subject: SV: SV: Garbarek album (from 1984) > >I'd personally prefer the Everyman Band to either Holdsworth or Van Halen, >it's much rawer than either, doesn't have Holdsworth annoyingly pointless >compositions and anal production, and, unlike Van Halen, the stuff around >the guitar solos is interesting too. Speaking of Holdsworth: What I love about him is his chordal playing. I saw him live here in Oslo a while back and (as usual) he had a small mountain of gear behind him. I know the magic of his playing lies in his hands and mind but I am wondering; Have any of had any luck getting that big lushy chordal sound he gets , with a small amount of gear??? I`m talking a sound that is wide and BIG , without beeing to "time-travelling" , as in: he plays a beutiful chord and when he lifts his fingers the sound stops.......not like a delay that goes on and on. Yours , Thomas From ???@??? Thu Apr 16 21:05:58 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 16 16:43:27 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPyJS-0002jK-00; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 16:43:26 -0700 Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 15:20:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Pete Koniuto Reply-To: Pete Koniuto To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: SV: Lanois/Reeves In-Reply-To: <01bd6966$a64eba80$55024382@pentium-200> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"oMOik.A.6wB.rXpN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5069 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 16:43:26 -0700 X-UIDL: 5435609a2d4bbe5a2a72d0d9c00b77d9 On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Woehni wrote: > Yeah , that atmosphere is what drew me in....... > how does he do it?? (you dont have to answer that.) > > BTW, for those of you who feel that we are venturing into > off-topicality I`m happy to inform > you that Mr. Lanois is the proud owner of a Boomerang. So there........... And he has been known to name some pieces after certain pieces of gear that inspire them. Two that come immediately to mind are "Orange Kay", and "Omni" (after the Omnichord) off the Slingblade score. Maybe there will be a piece showcasing the Boomerang and using its name on his next solo effort. Of course he's got to finish Willie Nelson's next record first... Anyway, rumor has it that Lanois' next solo album will be more like the Slingblade material than his previous stuff. Signature Lanois atmosphere all over the place. Some can't stand it, i can't get enough. Best, Pete Koniuto From ???@??? Thu Apr 16 21:05:45 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 16 14:10:34 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPvvN-00006Z-00; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 14:10:25 -0700 Message-ID: <35367250.C301DC9F@Pirnie.com> Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 17:04:17 -0400 From: "Lee Wordsman" Reply-To: Lwordsman@Pirnie.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Digitech TSR12 References: <19980416173104.27383.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6H84RB.A.FqG.zInN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5066 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 14:10:25 -0700 X-UIDL: ca9764d0b0e37b80e90b930f60603990 All I have is a Digitech RDS 4000 and although I look on in envy at all of the jammen and EDP owners, I have to say that for $125.00 the Time Machine has been an excellent entry point into the world of looping. In fact, I like it so much, I'm going to buy a used GSP 5 for $80 this evening. alice crash wrote: > the best thing i ever did with my didgitek signal prtocessors is burn > them in a hot fire ang record the crackling for future samples.... > > >From lists@slip.net Sun Apr 12 06:38:40 1998 > >Received: from ferret.slip.net ([207.171.193.6] ident=mail) > > by falcon.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) > > for alicecrsh@hotmail.com > > id 0yOMxz-00031J-00; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 06:38:39 -0700 > >Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) > > for alicecrsh@hotmail.com > > id 0yOMxt-0002NK-00; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 06:38:33 -0700 > >Message-ID: > >Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 14:26:46 +0100 > >To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > >From: babs > >Subject: Digitech TSR12 > >MIME-Version: 1.0 > >X-Mailer: Turnpike Trial Version 3.03a > >Resent-Message-ID: <"3aobXC.A.9IC.fOMM1"@ferret> > >Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > >Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > >X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4986 > >Precedence: list > >Resent-Sender: SmartList > >Resent-To: alicecrsh@hotmail.com > >Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 06:38:33 -0700 > > > >My old delay finally went to the graveyard of rack units in the sky. > >So I've been on the lookout for a replacement and found an unused TSR12 > >in a local music shop for a reasonable price, so is anyone out there > >using one in their rig or does anyone have any comments on the TSR12? > > > >Babs > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Thu Apr 16 21:05:59 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 16 16:59:50 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPyZB-0004dn-00; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 16:59:41 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980416165030.00694dcc@mail.utexas.edu> X-Sender: esker@mail.utexas.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 16:50:30 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthew hahn Subject: History of Looping and Sampling, something I read as being deficient Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"YJn_DB.A.sTD.gkpN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5070 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 16:59:41 -0700 X-UIDL: cab8313ab0cfee9a25ca84acae3fdd36 I have read Looper Delight's history of looping, I have read a couple book's dissections of sampling and looping, I have read magazines ideas of the history of looping and sampling and none of them give a succinct version of what technologies when converged created sampling and looping? What I want to know is how did we go digital, I've learned that A/D converters translate analog to digital, but as to what these devices are, I want to understand better just in general. It seems to me that what it is is that you can send an electric guitar's analog signal through an analog line, to a digital device whose A/D converter changes it into digital. But maybe there's more to it, for example how did it happen, to digital audio? What did the audiotape serve to influence uses of digital? What besides the Altair were the first important uses of digital music either plugged in or via computer language, and how did the plug in side come about. THat seems paramount to me because without original creation of analog signals developed, digital sounds while in theory can be created, they would not relate so well to what many want to hear. Thanks for humoring me, if you would answer (; Mjh From ???@??? Thu Apr 16 21:05:48 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 16 15:14:17 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPwv4-0000Al-00; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 15:14:10 -0700 From: "Woehni" To: , Subject: SV: Rebirth of cool? Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 00:01:15 +0200 Message-ID: <01bd6983$2d024e40$e2014382@pentium-200> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"_FqBxC.A.3SG.dBoN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5067 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 15:14:10 -0700 X-UIDL: 35da4b2ff2251315ff82d17734b3126f >This has nothing to do with anything, but I was checking out a band the other >day, and I had to sit through this excruciatingly bad eighties style band that >turns out to be led by one of the guys from A-ha. He did a tapped solo, just >to round out the time warp. I laughed, I cried... I mostly laughed, though. > >Trevor > hi trevor..........when u say A-ha , do you mean the Norwegian eighties pop group who had that "take on me" hit???? The guitarist from that trio is now head of a band called Savoy. They do sad popgrunge stuff............The Keyboardist from A-ha is now a painter :-) The vocalist has a nice solocareer going here in norway. And there is that crazy free jazz band here in norway that contained some of the best Jazzmusicians Norway has to offer , who was also called A-ha. So , wich one is it , Trevor?? :-) Thomas From ???@??? Thu Apr 16 21:05:49 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 16 15:17:06 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPwxi-0000Ul-00; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 15:16:54 -0700 From: "Woehni" To: Subject: SV: SV: Garbarek album (from 1984) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 00:03:55 +0200 Message-ID: <01bd6983$8c899120$e2014382@pentium-200> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"LC_0PC.A.ElG.sDoN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5068 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 15:16:54 -0700 X-UIDL: 4e0d1296085fc0b0115a239a02b2ed63 >The funny thing about Holdsworth is that he claims those effects are all >very short delays that are augmented by his playing. He's also got a little >bit of equiptment that he makes himself. The guy always blow my mind. I've >got some video of him playing the Synthaxe, It is nuts. Have you seen his >instructional video. It's scary. >Jeff Collins That video is nice. "House of Mirrors"...............amazing stuff. So short delays is his secret , eh?? Thomas From ???@??? Thu Apr 16 21:06:05 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 16 17:28:27 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPz0e-0000FD-00; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 17:28:04 -0700 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199804162308.QAA11465@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: SV: Garbarek album (from 1984) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 16:08:24 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <01bd6969$bbd198c0$4a08bfa8@0QHC6SIA> from "COLLINSCLAN" at Apr 16, 98 02:59:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LtIdBB.A.HoG.xAqN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5071 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 17:28:04 -0700 X-UIDL: 3ee5e91cdf5786e940fbafa0ce00aa29 > The funny thing about Holdsworth is that he claims those effects are all > very short delays that are augmented by his playing. He's also got a little > bit of equiptment that he makes himself. The guy always blow my mind. I've > got some video of him playing the Synthaxe, It is nuts. Have you seen his > instructional video. It's scary. > Jeff Collins As I recall, Holdsworth's reasoning is that a digital chorus effect is really nothing more than a bunch of very short delays. Thus he used an ADA delay unit for his sound. The equipment he has made is mostly in support of his tone philosophy that for his overdriven guitar sound he needs power tubes - preamp tube distortion is not enough. Thus he's made "juice extractors" that take the speaker output of any tube amp and convert it to a line level signal and "the coffin" (a recording chamber for his guitar cabinets - mostly sound-deadening material wrapped around the cabinets with mics stuck in). Yes, Rocktron used to market the Holdsworth Juice Extractor, but Holdsworth was unhappy with the product. They ruined his original design for the dummy load part of the product (it fools the tube amp into thinking there is a speaker connected to it). He spent a lot of time and effort using trial-and-error to come up with a particular concoction of resistors and other components but Rocktron reportedly changed his recipe for the dummy load. On top of that, he felt the final product was constructed with poor quality control. I think he still sells his own Juice Extractor (under a different name) on a made-to-order basis. I have not seen the video but I do have teh book Just For the Curious. His phrasing is unique among guitarists (e.g. lots of perfect fourths) because he effortlessly uses fingerings that most guitarists would not consider "comfortable". It's worth checking out for guitarists (and Stick players) who want to take their phrasing in a different direction. Cheers, Paolo Valladolid --------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ---------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Thu Apr 16 21:06:16 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 16 18:47:54 1998 Received: from falcon ([207.171.193.27] helo=falcon.slip.net) by ferret.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@slip.net id 0yQ0Fq-0002Da-00; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 18:47:50 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net ([207.171.193.6] ident=mail) by falcon.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPzS2-000041-00; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 17:56:22 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yPzRv-0003j8-00; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 17:56:15 -0700 Message-ID: <353695FF.9272F5C2@mediaone.net> Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 19:36:31 -0400 From: innerspace@mediaone.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en]C-MOEMW (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: (no subject) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------6BEB339C16694DFD7F541CD5" Resent-Message-ID: <"EXr1YC.A.trC.JcqN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5072 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 17:56:15 -0700 X-UIDL: 7ffd06f3f06ed395f860cf984eafd5ca hi trevor..........when u say A-ha , do you mean the Norwegian eighties pop group
who had that "take on me" hit????     The guitarist from that trio is now head of a
band called Savoy. They do sad popgrunge stuff............The Keyboardist from A-ha
is now a painter     :-)    The vocalist has a nice solocareer going here in norway.

And there is that crazy free jazz band here in norway that contained some of the best
Jazzmusicians Norway has to offer , who was also called A-ha.     So , wich one is it , Trevor??
 

:)
:)
:)
:)
:)
:)
:)
:)
                        ;)            :)
 
  From ???@??? Thu Apr 16 21:06:25 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 16 20:03:34 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQ1R7-0003qs-00; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 20:03:33 -0700 From: Fmplautus Message-ID: <512d0476.3536b2ed@aol.com> Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 21:39:55 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: SV: Garbarek album (from 1984) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 84 Resent-Message-ID: <"ytdz_D.A.O3C.MUsN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5076 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 20:03:33 -0700 X-UIDL: a12eefa0bc33d0ad3c0b9e280f78da8e So why is the Holdsworth "video" scary? Besides the four fingered runs... Best, the LoOpdOctOrs From ???@??? Thu Apr 16 21:06:22 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 16 19:52:44 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQ1GU-0002RP-00; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 19:52:34 -0700 From: "Woehni" To: Subject: holdsworth(was garbarek 1984) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 04:43:02 +0200 Message-ID: <01bd69aa$8ad343e0$e2014382@pentium-200> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"5BxOB.A.-hB.rJsN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5074 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 19:52:34 -0700 X-UIDL: c4dff939a615e6bf93e4149c4940287d > >As I recall, Holdsworth's reasoning is that a digital chorus effect is >really nothing more than a bunch of very short delays. Thus he used >an ADA delay unit for his sound. > Does he use them in series or in paralell?? I mean , does each short delay feed the next one creating a sort wash of delays??? >I have not seen the video but I do have teh book Just For the Curious. >His phrasing is unique among guitarists (e.g. lots of perfect fourths) >because he effortlessly uses fingerings that most guitarists would not >consider "comfortable". It's worth checking out for guitarists (and >Stick players) who want to take their phrasing in a different direction. Is it "Reaching for the uncommon chord" you are referring too? Ia considering buying that......do you think it is possible for a guy(me) with normal stretching abilities to play his chords?? thanks , Thomas > >> From ???@??? Thu Apr 16 21:06:23 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 16 19:53:46 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQ1HY-0002am-00; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 19:53:40 -0700 From: "Woehni" To: Subject: SV: (no subject) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 04:44:00 +0200 Message-ID: <01bd69aa$ad549400$e2014382@pentium-200> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001D_01BD69BB.70DD6400" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"1vSM4D.A.CmB.LKsN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5075 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 19:53:40 -0700 X-UIDL: b5384ccee3bf521c50abf73865804071

 
-----Opprinnelig melding-----
Fra: innerspace@mediaone.net <innerspace@mediaone.net>
Til: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Dato: 17. april 1998 02:56
Emne: (no subject)

hi trevor..........when u say A-ha , do you mean the Norwegian eighties pop group
who had that "take on me" hit????     The guitarist from that trio is now head of a
band called Savoy. They do sad popgrunge stuff............The Keyboardist from A-ha
is now a painter     :-)    The vocalist has a nice solocareer going here in norway.

And there is that crazy free jazz band here in norway that contained some of the best
Jazzmusicians Norway has to offer , who was also called A-ha.     So , wich one is it , Trevor??
 

:)
:)
:)
:)
:)
:)
:)
:)
                        ;)            :)
 
   

 

  smiles all around , eh??   :-)

From ???@??? Thu Apr 16 21:06:28 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 16 20:26:31 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQ1nJ-0006Xq-00; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 20:26:29 -0700 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sprintmail.com From: "COLLINSCLAN" To: Subject: Re: holdsworth(was garbarek 1984) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 23:16:16 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd69af$2f40a180$3a08bfa8@0QHC6SIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"IeNkk.A.fpF.prsN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5077 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 20:26:29 -0700 X-UIDL: 0fd1cc315018664100e6459821c935fd Thomas, I do believe that he uses the delays in series but if he used them in parallel than it could make for stereo which I'm sure he's a stereo guitarist. Perhaps if his site was still up we could ask him that. The only reason that other guitarists consider his chordal style uncomfortable is because they don't practice it much. I've got fairly small hands and can play a lot of his chords. It just takes some practice, and you have to do some serious warm-ups. Now playing his chords on something like a synthaxe or a ztar that's a different story. I wish I had the Uncommon Chord book because there is a lot of very useful stuff if you're willing to learn it. Which for a lot of people is too much and they end up putting him down. I do agree that sometimes he put's songs out that are like other ones. But he's a Jazz guy and they never play the same thing twice. I actually have a friend who learned to actually play exactly like Allan (i know it sounds a bit far fetched) but it is very, very true. Although now it's a different game. He's learned to play like himself. Especially since he got a fretless guitar. Look at Robert Fripp. Tons of us can't play his stuff, But I don't hear anyone putting him down, Except for the way he talks. Keep Playing. Jeff Collins collinsclan@sprintmail.com -----Original Message----- From: Woehni To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Thursday, April 16, 1998 10:49 PM Subject: holdsworth(was garbarek 1984) > >As I recall, Holdsworth's reasoning is that a digital chorus effect is >really nothing more than a bunch of very short delays. Thus he used >an ADA delay unit for his sound. > Does he use them in series or in paralell?? I mean , does each short delay feed the next one creating a sort wash of delays??? >I have not seen the video but I do have teh book Just For the Curious. >His phrasing is unique among guitarists (e.g. lots of perfect fourths) >because he effortlessly uses fingerings that most guitarists would not >consider "comfortable". It's worth checking out for guitarists (and >Stick players) who want to take their phrasing in a different direction. Is it "Reaching for the uncommon chord" you are referring too? Ia considering buying that......do you think it is possible for a guy(me) with normal stretching abilities to play his chords?? thanks , Thomas > >> From ???@??? Thu Apr 16 21:06:29 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 16 20:33:22 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQ1tt-0007PC-00; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 20:33:17 -0700 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sprintmail.com From: "COLLINSCLAN" To: Subject: Re: SV: Garbarek album (from 1984) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 23:21:41 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd69af$f0b307e0$3a08bfa8@0QHC6SIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"xo9WGB.A.rUG.-wsN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5078 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 20:33:17 -0700 X-UIDL: da489012768730a077b44480164afa98 His juice extractor product is called the Harness, and HE builds them ONE at a time. You could get more info on them IF he still had his sight up. Jeff Collins -----Original Message----- From: Paolo Valladolid To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Thursday, April 16, 1998 8:23 PM Subject: Re: SV: Garbarek album (from 1984) >> The funny thing about Holdsworth is that he claims those effects are all >> very short delays that are augmented by his playing. He's also got a little >> bit of equiptment that he makes himself. The guy always blow my mind. I've >> got some video of him playing the Synthaxe, It is nuts. Have you seen his >> instructional video. It's scary. >> Jeff Collins > >As I recall, Holdsworth's reasoning is that a digital chorus effect is >really nothing more than a bunch of very short delays. Thus he used >an ADA delay unit for his sound. > >The equipment he has made is mostly in support of his tone philosophy that >for his overdriven guitar sound he needs power tubes - preamp tube >distortion is not enough. Thus he's made "juice extractors" that take >the speaker output of any tube amp and convert it to a line level signal >and "the coffin" (a recording chamber for his guitar cabinets - mostly >sound-deadening material wrapped around the cabinets with mics stuck in). >Yes, Rocktron used to market the Holdsworth Juice Extractor, but Holdsworth >was unhappy with the product. They ruined his original design for the >dummy load part of the product (it fools the tube amp into thinking there >is a speaker connected to it). He spent a lot of time and effort using >trial-and-error to come up with a particular concoction of resistors and >other components but Rocktron reportedly changed his recipe for the dummy >load. On top of that, he felt the final product was constructed with poor >quality control. I think he still sells his own Juice Extractor (under >a different name) on a made-to-order basis. > >I have not seen the video but I do have teh book Just For the Curious. >His phrasing is unique among guitarists (e.g. lots of perfect fourths) >because he effortlessly uses fingerings that most guitarists would not >consider "comfortable". It's worth checking out for guitarists (and >Stick players) who want to take their phrasing in a different direction. > >Cheers, > >Paolo Valladolid > --------------------------------------------------------------- >|Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ >|for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ > ---------------------------------------------------------------- | >\ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | > \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > From ???@??? Fri Apr 17 03:02:34 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 16 22:49:19 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQ41U-0004xE-00; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 22:49:16 -0700 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sprintmail.com From: "COLLINSCLAN" To: Subject: Re: History of Looping and Sampling, something I read as being deficient Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 23:24:37 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd69b0$595d76e0$3a08bfa8@0QHC6SIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"RlP94.A.6UE.eyuN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5085 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 22:49:16 -0700 X-UIDL: 8a1a3e276ebb072b1cf87ef19f08cf4d You might as well add in there, How can one invent perpetual motion to that list. Good luck on your quest for information. Jeff Collins -----Original Message----- From: matthew hahn To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Thursday, April 16, 1998 7:53 PM Subject: History of Looping and Sampling, something I read as being deficient >I have read Looper Delight's history of looping, I have read a couple >book's dissections of sampling and looping, I have read magazines ideas of >the history of looping and sampling >and none of them give a succinct version of what technologies when >converged created sampling and looping? >What I want to know is how did we go digital, I've learned that A/D >converters translate analog to digital, but as to what these devices are, I >want to understand better just in general. It seems to me that what it is >is that you can send an electric guitar's analog signal through an analog >line, to >a digital device whose A/D converter changes it into digital. >But maybe there's more to it, for example how did it happen, to digital >audio? What did the audiotape serve to influence uses of digital? What >besides the Altair were the first important uses of digital music either >plugged in or via computer language, and how did the plug in side come >about. THat seems paramount to me because without original creation of >analog signals developed, digital sounds while in theory can be created, >they would not relate so well to what many want to hear. >Thanks for humoring me, if you would answer (; >Mjh > > > From ???@??? Thu Apr 16 21:06:30 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 16 20:38:58 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQ1zL-0000Jd-00; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 20:38:55 -0700 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sprintmail.com From: "COLLINSCLAN" To: Subject: Re: Re: SV: Garbarek album (from 1984) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 23:27:12 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd69b0$b5b76ea0$3a08bfa8@0QHC6SIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"AVhsFB.A.a_G.Q2sN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5079 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 20:38:55 -0700 X-UIDL: c4a98f58aa31d1cbb1619c8c62e7018a Because he's so incredibly fast and beautiful in his soloing AND his chordal playing. He's so good it make me wanna jump and give him a big ol' HELL YEAH!! Jeff Collins And That's the Bottom line. -----Original Message----- From: Fmplautus To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Thursday, April 16, 1998 11:00 PM Subject: Re: Re: SV: Garbarek album (from 1984) >So why is the Holdsworth "video" scary? Besides the four fingered runs... > >Best, >the LoOpdOctOrs > > From ???@??? Fri Apr 17 03:02:36 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 16 23:15:42 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net ([207.171.193.21] helo=falcon.slip.net) by ferret.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@slip.net id 0yQ4R3-0006h8-00; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 23:15:41 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net ([207.171.193.6] ident=mail) by falcon.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQ2LB-0001Xr-00; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 21:01:29 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQ2L3-0002iH-00; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 21:01:21 -0700 Message-ID: <3536D50D.6042@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 21:05:34 -0700 From: Andre LaFosse Reply-To: altruist@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: holdsworth References: <01bd69af$2f40a180$3a08bfa8@0QHC6SIA> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"CojyI.A.LCC.LMtN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5080 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 21:01:21 -0700 X-UIDL: 82118b575d25b1f709d36907d7d593b4 COLLINSCLAN wrote: > I do believe that he uses the delays in series but if he used them in > parallel than it could make for stereo which I'm sure he's a stereo > guitarist. Perhaps if his site was still up we could ask him that. I'd had no idea Atavachron was over until just now. There's a note from the former maintainer at the site, http://www.holdsworth.net Very, very bizarre... --A From ???@??? Fri Apr 17 03:02:26 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 16 21:10:06 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQ2TS-0003j8-00; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 21:10:02 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980416230833.006933c4@mail.utexas.edu> X-Sender: esker@mail.utexas.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 23:08:33 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthew hahn Subject: Re: SV: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <01bd69aa$ad549400$e2014382@pentium-200> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"t8eQSB.A.hID.YVtN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5081 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 21:10:02 -0700 X-UIDL: bd7d660b7ded6845488a3df1e4e4fffd At 04:44 AM 17-04-98 +0200, you wrote: > -----Opprinnelig melding----- >Fra: innerspace@mediaone.net Well A-Ha to you too! > :) >:) >:) >:) >:) >:) >:) >:) > :) > > :-) > From ???@??? Fri Apr 17 03:02:39 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 16 23:50:30 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQ4yi-00016W-00; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 23:50:28 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19980417042437.0098cbd0@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: gls@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 23:24:37 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Grover Sheffield Subject: Re: EDP function problem Resent-Message-ID: <"rpaWYC.A.Ww.NsvN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5086 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 23:50:28 -0700 X-UIDL: 68f4806966ecd04782e02c7ba6605f43 At 10:57 PM 4/15/98 -0700, you wrote: > >When you are in mute, there are four different ways to come out of it: > I haven't tried yet, but the MuteMode function sounds perfect. Thanks again, Kim... Grover From ???@??? Fri Apr 17 03:02:29 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 16 21:32:34 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQ2pC-0005zg-00; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 21:32:30 -0700 From: "Woehni" To: Subject: SV: holdsworth(was garbarek 1984) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 06:25:04 +0200 Message-ID: <01bd69b8$cb4a8740$e2014382@pentium-200> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"9Yuj.A.HDF.5otN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5082 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 21:32:30 -0700 X-UIDL: ae2fb414464a4e2063c33b7d3ff2d050 Hi Jeff , Thanks for the insights. I`m gonna buy the book and work on it. There is some sort of beuty on his playing that I want to get into my playing. He certainly IS a jazzguy and the compositions themself reflect that. I consider myself a "jazzguy" too , and I`ve found that compositions often function as a springboard for the "real" composition ; the improvisation. (look at standards) When I put it this way it sounds like jazzmusic is all about a bunch of guys blowing over changes. Of course it isnt so. Composition is a major part of jazz , but its what HAPPENS to the composition when its performed that matters. At least this is what I feel. So , under these circumstances , I don`t think it is right to criticise Holdsworth`s compositions. I feel he has invented his own style in that regard , his modualtions and his phrasing in the melodies. But , this is just my opinion.. Thomas From ???@??? Fri Apr 17 03:02:30 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 16 21:39:00 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQ2vR-0006mz-00; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 21:38:57 -0700 From: Marzzz Message-ID: <8c4003be.3536db98@aol.com> Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 00:33:26 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: holdsworth(was garbarek 1984) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Resent-Message-ID: <"Ha3izC.A.bzF.9utN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5083 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 21:38:57 -0700 X-UIDL: 81f889ab5980a36b8cc681e02e5654cd In a message dated 4/16/98 9:53:49 PM, you wrote: >>I have not seen the video but I do have teh book Just For the Curious. >>His phrasing is unique among guitarists (e.g. lots of perfect fourths) >>because he effortlessly uses fingerings that most guitarists would not >>consider "comfortable". It's worth checking out for guitarists (and >>Stick players) who want to take their phrasing in a different direction. Forget not "comfortable", how about physically impossible?? I have seen the video tape for "Just for the Curious" and I could not believe the kinds of fingerings he seemed to be reaching effortlessly....one in particular was an extremely wide stretch with the index and pinky, and the middle and ring fingers jammed close together in the middle- I couldn't play it with two hands and my nose..... Marshall From ???@??? Fri Apr 17 03:02:31 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 16 21:44:14 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net ([207.171.193.21] helo=falcon.slip.net) by ferret.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@slip.net id 0yQ30V-0007QK-00; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 21:44:11 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net ([207.171.193.6] ident=mail) by falcon.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQ30T-0003SV-00; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 21:44:09 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQ30M-0007P8-00; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 21:44:02 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980416213913.009b2320@global.california.com> X-Sender: sechevar@global.california.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 21:39:13 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Sean Echevarria Subject: Re: holdsworth In-Reply-To: <3536D50D.6042@earthlink.net> References: <01bd69af$2f40a180$3a08bfa8@0QHC6SIA> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"sMC4yC.A.ViG.40tN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5084 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 21:44:02 -0700 X-UIDL: 78fe4738d2cf9a33680f94ddb0dabc8a At 09:05 PM 4/16/98 -0700, you wrote: >I'd had no idea Atavachron was over until just now. > ditto... > >Very, very bizarre... > As a drummer I knew used to say "That's fucked up." The FAQ there was pretty informative - too bad it won't live on somewhere else. sean From ???@??? Fri Apr 17 03:02:46 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 17 02:34:46 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQ7Xh-00023A-00; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 02:34:45 -0700 Message-ID: <35370745.C062B93E@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 00:40:10 -0700 From: Bill Moyer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: EDP "Reserved" References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"m_aS7.A.tmB.6FyN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5088 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 02:34:45 -0700 X-UIDL: 26c1aaf4e602956ef53942fac4b9a86e Any plans for this? How about cutting/doubling sample rate for pitch shifting? Bill From ???@??? Fri Apr 17 03:02:46 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 17 02:31:14 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQ7UH-0001fH-00; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 02:31:13 -0700 Sender: camao@camsg001.camb.scee.sony.co.uk Message-ID: <35371104.75F68D6D@scee.sony.co.uk> Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 09:21:24 +0100 From: Os X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; IRIX 6.2 IP22) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: an old chestnut Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"GJorbD.A.gUB.MDyN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5087 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 02:31:13 -0700 X-UIDL: 44b3d4af6f6216b4f11054007e3061eb Noone's mentioned this for a while, so I thought it was time to bring it up... Any news of the EDP's European launch? Or is it "still in CE testing"? cheers, -- Os os@scee.sony.co.uk os@collective.co.uk http://www.collective.co.uk/ From ???@??? Fri Apr 17 03:27:59 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 17 03:03:17 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQ7zG-0003Sb-00; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 03:03:14 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <01bd69b0$b5b76ea0$3a08bfa8@0QHC6SIA> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 03:00:00 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Re: SV: Garbarek album (from 1984) Resent-Message-ID: <"-vN-eC.A.wAD.KhyN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5089 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 03:03:14 -0700 X-UIDL: a26d4611e55dfac32044acd5155ae92b hmm, and yet it hasn't got much to do with the topic here, eh? Let's see if we can veer this back towards looping....gather 'round boys and girls.... Once upon a time there was a NAMM show where I had to work the whole damn show in the Oberheim booth. I even wore a suit and tie, making me an honest-to-god Suit for four days. I was demoing echoplexes with a VERY heavy les paul, and occasionally twiddling knobs on an OBMx or pulling drawbars on the OB3. Amidst the parade of demo seeking has-beens and never-wases, along comes Allan Holdsworth. He was mostly interested in the OBMx, but someone had convinced him to check out the echoplex as well. So I demonstrated the echoplex and looping to Allan Holdsworth. His reaction? zip. disinterest. He fiddled with the OBMx knobs for a bit and took off. I had a couple of country singers express more interest than he did. (they were much more attractive, too...) So as far as I can tell, that's about all there is to say about Holdsworth and looping! Now as far as looping guitarist sightings go, I hear that Warren Haynes of the Allman Brothers is becoming an echoplex user/endorser. I can only imagine what that means..... kim >Because he's so incredibly fast and beautiful in his soloing AND his chordal >playing. He's so good it make me wanna jump and give him a big ol' HELL >YEAH!! >Jeff Collins >And That's the Bottom line. >-----Original Message----- >From: Fmplautus >To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >Date: Thursday, April 16, 1998 11:00 PM >Subject: Re: Re: SV: Garbarek album (from 1984) > > >>So why is the Holdsworth "video" scary? Besides the four fingered runs... >> >>Best, >>the LoOpdOctOrs >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Fri Apr 17 03:28:01 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 17 03:18:20 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQ8Dq-0004Lf-00; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 03:18:18 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <35371104.75F68D6D@scee.sony.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 03:14:47 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: an old chestnut Resent-Message-ID: <"ROT0RD.A.b0D.AvyN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5090 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 03:18:18 -0700 X-UIDL: 15783d3c6b2be7552df402367cbc7598 Last I heard, they were planning the european return for later in the year, like september or so. They might even manufacture it there, which would likely keep the cost down and the availability constant. I don't know the status of that, though. hopefully.... kim At 9:21 AM +0100 4/17/98, Os wrote: >Noone's mentioned this for a while, so I thought it was time to bring it >up... > >Any news of the EDP's European launch? > >Or is it "still in CE testing"? > > >cheers, >-- >Os >os@scee.sony.co.uk >os@collective.co.uk >http://www.collective.co.uk/ ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Fri Apr 17 03:28:02 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 17 03:21:42 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQ8H8-0004ib-00; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 03:21:42 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <35370745.C062B93E@earthlink.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 03:17:29 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: EDP "Reserved" Resent-Message-ID: <"9ztSj.A.KEE.jxyN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5091 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 03:21:42 -0700 X-UIDL: a9ba1d087d6d9020c71adbd2440aaaa4 At 12:40 AM -0700 4/17/98, Bill Moyer wrote: >Any plans for this? How about cutting/doubling sample rate for pitch >shifting? > >Bill There are plans reserved for Reserved, but no plans to reveal the plans. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Fri Apr 17 10:21:34 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 17 04:40:01 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQ9Ut-00002F-00; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 04:39:59 -0700 Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 07:33:40 -0400 From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: holdsworthian delaze Sender: Jon Durant <74074.1316@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Message-ID: <199804170737_MC2-3A2A-BEB6@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"rin2fD.A.gHH.o8zN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5093 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 04:39:59 -0700 X-UIDL: 7d6459c39bc013ce472a7e61d3e33b29 Umm, let's see if I can remember what I encountered one hazy day at the brewery... There were eight (count 'em!) delays, running in parallel, fed through a stereo mixer. Each delay was set at a different length, with different modulation rates and different panning across a stereo field. The delays, as I recall, included two ADA units, two Lex PCM 41s, two Deltatlab Effectrons, and two other delays of some variety or other. (They may have been ART) The delay times ranged from about 20ms to around 300 ms. There were two set at the longer range. We painstakingly recreated all of the delay, modulation and panning setings in a PCM 80, and A/B'd the two. It wasn't even close to his mammoth rig. Why? My guess is that all those different delays, with different analog sections, created something wholly unique, and a single clock-rate chip, no matter how advanced, could not duplicate the vibe which was going on. Alas, after 45 minutes of tinkering between the two, we bailed for the beer and a demonstration of the Fizz-Buster, a device which works remarkably well I must say. Looping is an area in which Mr. H has expressed considerable disinterest. No great surprise, really. Later, Jon Durant From ???@??? Fri Apr 17 10:21:33 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 17 04:39:59 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQ9Ur-00001v-00; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 04:39:57 -0700 Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 07:33:45 -0400 From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@compuserve.com> Subject: Fourteen Years Sender: Jon Durant <74074.1316@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Message-ID: <199804170737_MC2-3A2A-BEB7@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"jvoiJ.A.6GH.j8zN1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5092 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 04:39:57 -0700 X-UIDL: 4df18ac489564244e38e226ffef4cab3 Oh, and I must mention, despite the commercial nature of this posting: Finally, the William Camire CD, Fourteen Years, is available from Alchemy. Street date is May 5th, though it is available direct from us now. (www.alchemyrecords.com;800-292-6932). Some of you may recall some of my earlier postings (several months back, aargh!) about what an interesting challenge this record was, and what a pleasant album it is to listen to, despite the difficulties and intensity we went through in creating it. It's a synth-based record, tons of loops, both synth and guitars (mine), and some lovely playing from Philly-based viloinisst/looper Caryn Lin. And, I particularly am pleased with the cover... OK, the commercial is over, back to your regularly scheduled program... Jon Durant From ???@??? Fri Apr 17 10:21:42 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 17 06:08:32 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQAsY-00050B-00; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 06:08:30 -0700 Message-ID: <353753F8.DEFEE95C@mediaone.net> Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 09:07:04 -0400 From: innerspace@mediaone.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en]C-MOEMW (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: SV: (no subject) References: <01bd69aa$ad549400$e2014382@pentium-200> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------38A6C29434D70DAAB5C65F46" Resent-Message-ID: <"a0x9J.A.xdE.sP1N1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5094 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 06:08:30 -0700 X-UIDL: 74e97d5f4f4420985a4a2fd24b1998f8  

Woehni wrote:

  
-----Opprinnelig melding-----
Fra: innerspace@mediaone.net <innerspace@mediaone.net>
Til: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Dato: 17. april 1998 02:56
Emne: (no subject)hi trevor..........when u say A-ha , do you mean the Norwegian eighties pop group
who had that "take on me" hit????     The guitarist from that trio is now head of a
band called Savoy. They do sad popgrunge stuff............The Keyboardist from A-ha
is now a painter     :-)    The vocalist has a nice solocareer going here in norway.

And there is that crazy free jazz band here in norway that contained some of the best
Jazzmusicians Norway has to offer , who was also called A-ha.     So , wich one is it , Trevor??
 

:)
:)
:)
:)
:)
:)
:)
:)
                        ;)            :)
 
 

 

  smiles all around , eh??   :-)

I couldn't help myself....  I'm  still young......;-)
  From ???@??? Fri Apr 17 10:21:53 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 17 07:31:39 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQCAz-0004Fv-00; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 07:31:37 -0700 Message-ID: <35376705.C9FA6F21@Pirnie.com> Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 10:28:21 -0400 From: "Lee Wordsman" Reply-To: Lwordsman@Pirnie.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: SV: Garbarek album (from 1984) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"m1pDEB.A.9fD.Xb2N1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5095 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 07:31:37 -0700 X-UIDL: 8edefbffaa693ccd102259ade3d43e61 Kim Flint wrote: > Now as far as looping guitarist sightings go, I hear that Warren Haynes of > the Allman Brothers is becoming an echoplex user/endorser. I can only > imagine what that means..... > You mean former guitarist for the Allman Brothers. Warren Haynes is currently pursuing a solo career as the front man for his band "Gov't Mule". I saw them recently and didn't detect any looping going on. A friend also passed on Warren's latest album. Haven't listened to it yet but if it features any looping I'll pass it on. From ???@??? Fri Apr 17 10:22:04 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 17 09:49:57 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQEKn-0004IE-00; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 09:49:53 -0700 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199804171644.JAA15228@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: holdsworth(was garbarek 1984) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 09:44:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <01bd69aa$8ad343e0$e2014382@pentium-200> from "Woehni" at Apr 17, 98 04:43:02 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"KXgCrB.A.tWD.0b4N1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5096 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 09:49:53 -0700 X-UIDL: b0f96e32ac436833906ab9acbe66bac5 > >I have not seen the video but I do have teh book Just For the Curious. > >His phrasing is unique among guitarists (e.g. lots of perfect fourths) > >because he effortlessly uses fingerings that most guitarists would not > >consider "comfortable". It's worth checking out for guitarists (and > >Stick players) who want to take their phrasing in a different = > direction. > > Is it "Reaching for the uncommon chord" you are referring too? No. Just For The Curious is a different, more recent instructional book, based on the video of the same name. > Ia considering buying that......do you think it is possible for a = > guy(me) > with normal stretching abilities to play his chords?? I don't see why not. His fingers are not much longer than mine and I can assure you I am a normal guy with normal-sized hands. Cheers, Paolo Valladolid --------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ---------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Fri Apr 17 10:22:06 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 17 09:57:47 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQESO-0005Lb-00; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 09:57:44 -0700 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199804171651.JAA15344@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: holdsworth(was garbarek 1984) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 09:51:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <8c4003be.3536db98@aol.com> from "Marzzz" at Apr 17, 98 00:33:26 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pLFI0B.A.iSE.0i4N1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5097 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 09:57:44 -0700 X-UIDL: f38a9ffff22e012f0c4e2a90f6596239 > In a message dated 4/16/98 9:53:49 PM, you wrote: > > >>I have not seen the video but I do have teh book Just For the Curious. > >>His phrasing is unique among guitarists (e.g. lots of perfect fourths) > >>because he effortlessly uses fingerings that most guitarists would not > >>consider "comfortable". It's worth checking out for guitarists (and > >>Stick players) who want to take their phrasing in a different direction. > > Forget not "comfortable", how about physically impossible?? I have seen the No, not physically impossible, unless you have unusually small hands or unusually short fingers. As mentioned earlier, I met Holdsworth briefly at a guitar clinic in San Marcos and found his hands to be quite normal in size. > video tape for "Just for the Curious" and I could not believe the kinds of > fingerings he seemed to be reaching effortlessly....one in particular was an > extremely wide stretch with the index and pinky, and the middle and ring > fingers jammed close together in the middle- I couldn't play it with two hands > and my nose..... It's all just practice. There's a jazz guitarist in the Pacific Northwest (sorry forgot his name) who plays similarly close-voiced chords a lot. He recommends having a low action on your guitar and using the side of the index finger instead of the pad for the most extreme stretches. Keep in mind that Holdsworth will occasionally fret notes with the right hand. So basically, just lower your action, work your way up, etc. Relax, of course. :) Cheers, Paolo Valladolid --------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ---------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Fri Apr 17 10:22:07 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 17 10:05:19 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQEZf-0006Mq-00; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 10:05:15 -0700 From: NEMOGUIT Message-ID: <6e27810d.353789d2@aol.com> Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 12:56:47 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: ......am i to infer?????? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 81 Resent-Message-ID: <"Ct1JDD.A.i_E.-n4N1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5098 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 10:05:15 -0700 X-UIDL: ea17914f85d0b09e49297b5eff643e45 kim-if i use a rang and not a plex are country-western guys cuter than me? i just cant find boots that fit................ :) .....................michael From ???@??? Fri Apr 17 11:22:19 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 17 10:48:55 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQFFo-00041c-00; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 10:48:48 -0700 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sprintmail.com From: "COLLINSCLAN" To: Subject: Re: holdsworthian delaze Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 13:06:09 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd6a23$1e2e6ac0$6108bfa8@0QHC6SIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"u7UOpD.A.nGD.9S5N1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5099 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 10:48:48 -0700 X-UIDL: 098c3839bdb16c0ab3daddf7b4373d6d So Jon, Have you tried the series/parallel configuration of delay's. I wish I could because I dig the modulation he get's from them. Like on House of Mirrors. And I think maybe the reason he shrugged you off Kim is because you were in a suit and he likes people who are more laid back. And how can one be laid back in a suit. I'm sure he liked the product but it's not STEREO like Allan likes. AND he proabably figured that there are too many people doing looping these days. Jeff Collins -----Original Message----- From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@compuserve.com> To: INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Friday, April 17, 1998 10:58 AM Subject: Re: holdsworthian delaze >Umm, let's see if I can remember what I encountered one hazy day at the >brewery... > >There were eight (count 'em!) delays, running in parallel, fed through a >stereo mixer. Each delay was set at a different length, with different >modulation rates and different panning across a stereo field. The delays, >as I recall, included two ADA units, two Lex PCM 41s, two Deltatlab >Effectrons, and two other delays of some variety or other. (They may have >been ART) The delay times ranged from about 20ms to around 300 ms. There >were two set at the longer range. > >We painstakingly recreated all of the delay, modulation and panning setings >in a PCM 80, and A/B'd the two. It wasn't even close to his mammoth rig. >Why? My guess is that all those different delays, with different analog >sections, created something wholly unique, and a single clock-rate chip, no >matter how advanced, could not duplicate the vibe which was going on. Alas, >after 45 minutes of tinkering between the two, we bailed for the beer and a >demonstration of the Fizz-Buster, a device which works remarkably well I >must say. > >Looping is an area in which Mr. H has expressed considerable disinterest. >No great surprise, really. > >Later, >Jon Durant > > From ???@??? Fri Apr 17 11:22:27 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 17 11:13:59 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQFe9-0007Ry-00; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 11:13:57 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <35376705.C9FA6F21@Pirnie.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 11:08:18 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: warren haynes Resent-Message-ID: <"tTRk3B.A.5bG.Ir5N1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5100 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 11:13:57 -0700 X-UIDL: d86dbbc4aa8e7d92672123f41e1e6fcc At 10:28 AM -0400 4/17/98, Lee Wordsman wrote: >Kim Flint wrote: > >> Now as far as looping guitarist sightings go, I hear that Warren Haynes of >> the Allman Brothers is becoming an echoplex user/endorser. I can only >> imagine what that means..... >> > >You mean former guitarist for the Allman Brothers. Warren Haynes is currently >pursuing a solo career as the front man for his band "Gov't Mule". I saw them >recently and didn't detect any looping going on. A friend also passed on >Warren's latest album. Haven't listened to it yet but if it features any >looping >I'll pass it on. ah. as you may have gathered, I don't follow the southern rock scene very closely....:-) At least I checked to see that it was the Allman Brothers...at first I though he was from Lynard Skynard.... since he's just getting one of these things, I would guess it would be the next album with the soundscaped-ambient-drum-and-bass-country-rock on it. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sat Apr 18 02:01:41 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 17 11:28:17 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQFs0-0001X2-00; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 11:28:16 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <6e27810d.353789d2@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 11:21:53 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: ......am i to infer?????? Resent-Message-ID: <"loxbjC.A.bw.635N1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5101 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 11:28:16 -0700 X-UIDL: b5e3fb0c3257f5ebd16a02afb104ec63 At 12:56 PM -0400 4/17/98, NEMOGUIT wrote: >kim-if i use a rang and not a plex are country-western guys cuter than me? >i just cant find boots that fit................ :) >.....................michael did I neglect to mention that the loop-curious country-western singers in question were also female? I suspect you will not end up being cuter than them no matter what size boots you get. However, if you send me a picture of yourself in cowboy boots and a boomerang, I'd be happy to judge whether or not you are cuter than Allan Holdsworth. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sat Apr 18 02:01:59 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 17 13:00:24 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQHJ3-0005kI-00; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 13:00:17 -0700 Sender: mpeters@csi.com Message-ID: <01BD6A40.2FC6A280.mpeters@csi.com> From: Michael Peters To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: Oberheim still alive? Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 20:33:48 +0200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-Mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9Fj4K.A.eTE.QL7N1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5106 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 13:00:17 -0700 X-UIDL: 602b0a05659da7ad984a01b289aded78 saw impressing views from stormy Nashville on the German news tonight. Pat Murphy? Are you ok? Is Oberheim still intact? michael peters mpeters@csi.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Mpeters/ From ???@??? Sat Apr 18 02:01:45 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 17 11:50:00 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQGCw-0004MS-00; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 11:49:54 -0700 Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:35:42 -0400 From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: holdsworthian delaze Sender: Jon Durant <74074.1316@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Message-ID: <199804171440_MC2-3A32-D7B7@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"3SShtC.A.cKD.1J6N1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5103 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 11:49:54 -0700 X-UIDL: 399701a268b6b1016882c9c4399cb991 Jeff wrote: >So Jon, Have you tried the series/parallel configuration of delay's. I wish >I could because I dig the modulation he get's from them. Only at Allan's house. It would be, um, impossible to recreate his set-up without considerable scavenging of the used delay market. Not something that appeals to me right now. Besides which: I have no particular interest in sounding like Allan. I'd far rather listen to the man than try to emulate his playing. Our attempt to recreate the sound on the PCM 80 was for his purposes: he'd like to lose the massive rack he has to cart around everywhere he goes... Later, Jon Durant From ???@??? Sat Apr 18 02:01:42 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 17 11:47:33 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQGAY-00042j-00; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 11:47:26 -0700 Message-ID: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD02CA0B3@migarexch01.maritz.com> From: "Liebig, Steuart A." To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: ......am i to infer?????? Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 13:38:34 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Resent-Message-ID: <"bNzi7B.A.66C.FI6N1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5102 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 11:47:26 -0700 X-UIDL: 0bdd96a90262a9e0950d8f54b7395381 I guess that cuteness could depend on the eye of the beholdsworth, er holder > ---------- > From: Kim Flint > Reply To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Sent: Friday, April 17, 1998 11:28 > To: LiebigSA@maritz.com > Subject: Re: ......am i to infer?????? > > At 12:56 PM -0400 4/17/98, NEMOGUIT wrote: > >kim-if i use a rang and not a plex are country-western guys cuter > than me? > >i just cant find boots that fit................ :) > >.....................michael > > did I neglect to mention that the loop-curious country-western singers > in > question were also female? I suspect you will not end up being cuter > than > them no matter what size boots you get. However, if you send me a > picture > of yourself in cowboy boots and a boomerang, I'd be happy to judge > whether > or not you are cuter than Allan Holdsworth. > > kim > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Kim Flint | Looper's Delight > kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html > http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > > > From ???@??? Sat Apr 18 02:02:00 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 17 13:00:41 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQHJO-0005n6-00; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 13:00:38 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980417115337.006b5800@svars1.simi-valley.ate.slb.com> X-Sender: cavaleri@svars1.simi-valley.ate.slb.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 11:53:41 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Joe Cavaleri Subject: Re: Country Loops Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"_Wbpf.A.aYE.vL7N1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5107 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 13:00:38 -0700 X-UIDL: c5fb47e75fd24bd304ccd644cf957a4b >Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 10:57:42 -0700 >To: Lwordsman@Pirnie.com >From: Joe Cavaleri >Subject: Re: Country Loops > >At 10:28 AM 4/17/98 -0400, you wrote: >> >> >>Kim Flint wrote: >> >>> Now as far as looping guitarist sightings go, I hear that Warren Haynes of >>> the Allman Brothers is becoming an echoplex user/endorser. I can only >>> imagine what that means..... >>> >> >>You mean former guitarist for the Allman Brothers. Warren Haynes is currently >>pursuing a solo career as the front man for his band "Gov't Mule". > > It's interesting that you bring this item up.. > > Just a few weeks ago Gov't Mule had a gig at the House of Blues that a supplier (Business!) of mine attended. Over the last few months I've been talkin' music from time to time with said new friend, and have tried to give him some sort background introduction about looping. He called a few days after the show and told me at the opening act for Gov't Mule was a solo >loopster.. someone named Jim Reynolds ??. Since I had been speaking to him about looping he sort of understood what was going on. But what was interesting was his explanation of the other people sitting with him.. > >The impression I got from this was that the other people just could not relate to what was happening.. that this was not music. He found himself in the position of attempting to explain to the other people what was going on.. > I guess that when he finished his first song the response was silence.... Anyway, as it turned out this guitar player ended up jamming with Gov't Mule latter that night playing blues based stuff ect.. at this time the other people at the table commented that " Oh.. this guy actuality can play guitar.." > > If anybody knows who Jim Reynolds is, it might be interesting to hear of his experiences of looping in the "real world" > > joe From ???@??? Sat Apr 18 02:01:50 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 17 12:21:53 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQGho-0000aS-00; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 12:21:48 -0700 From: "Woehni" To: Subject: SV: holdsworthian delaze Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 21:12:30 +0200 Message-ID: <01bd6a34$c4bb6120$dd014382@pentium-200> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"1ubpKB.A.XDH.6o6N1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5104 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 12:21:48 -0700 X-UIDL: e30ecceab6aceda4b9b2f0077b40ba66 > >There were eight (count 'em!) delays, running in parallel, fed through a >stereo mixer. I dont mean to flog a dead(and off topic) horse , but I do have ONE final and LAST question on this: How did he spilt his guitarsignal into 8 separate lines ,to feed the delays?? Isnt there some sort of problem with that sort of split?? (i think I read somewhere that its called "loading" or something.......) There you have it , the last inquiry in my "holdsworthian-guitar-inquisition".......Now if you`ll exuse me I`ll go off to learn how to play the darn thing......... Thomas W (in Norwegian that roughly means "He Who Askes Off Topic Question") From ???@??? Sat Apr 18 02:01:51 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 17 12:24:07 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQGk1-0000tL-00; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 12:24:05 -0700 From: "Woehni" To: Subject: SV: holdsworth(was garbarek 1984) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 21:14:07 +0200 Message-ID: <01bd6a34$fea4d1a0$dd014382@pentium-200> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"bPf5NB.A.FSH.dq6N1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5105 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 12:24:05 -0700 X-UIDL: 8e36d6394c23123cf1a1cf905f739814 >It's all just practice. There's a jazz guitarist in the Pacific Northwest >(sorry forgot his name) who plays similarly close-voiced chords a lot. He >recommends having a low action on your guitar and using the side of the >index finger instead of the pad for the most extreme stretches. Keep in >mind that Holdsworth will occasionally fret notes with the right hand. >So basically, just lower your action, work your way up, etc. Relax, of course. :) > I think you are reffering to John Stowell? From ???@??? Sat Apr 18 02:02:04 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 17 13:16:32 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQHYj-000023-00; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 13:16:29 -0700 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199804172010.NAA16685@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: SV: holdsworth(was garbarek 1984) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 13:10:02 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <01bd6a34$fea4d1a0$dd014382@pentium-200> from "Woehni" at Apr 17, 98 09:14:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"eKYEyD.A.WjG.qc7N1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5108 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 13:16:29 -0700 X-UIDL: 92716e70da581450e1e14b63382a20e2 > >It's all just practice. There's a jazz guitarist in the Pacific = > Northwest > >(sorry forgot his name) who plays similarly close-voiced chords a lot. = > He > >recommends having a low action on your guitar and using the side of the > >index finger instead of the pad for the most extreme stretches. Keep = > in=20 > >mind that Holdsworth will occasionally fret notes with the right hand. = > > >So basically, just lower your action, work your way up, etc. Relax, of = > course. :) > > > I think you are reffering to John Stowell? Yes, that's him. Paolo From ???@??? Sat Apr 18 02:02:17 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 17 14:05:26 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQIK5-0006Uq-00; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:05:25 -0700 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199804172014.NAA16713@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: SV: holdsworthian delaze To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 13:14:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <01bd6a34$c4bb6120$dd014382@pentium-200> from "Woehni" at Apr 17, 98 09:12:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MCZ91.A.8TF.iK8N1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5111 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:05:25 -0700 X-UIDL: e3369b7637cfd9a6f7889b9f077aea83 > I dont mean to flog a dead(and off topic) horse , but I do have ONE = > final and LAST > question on this: How did he spilt his guitarsignal into 8 separate = > lines ,to feed the > delays?? Isnt there some sort of problem with that sort of split?? (i = > think I read somewhere > that its called "loading" or something.......) There are signal splitters out there that will buffer the signal so that the original signal level is maintained. I can't list specific products due to memory failure, but, yes, you can split the signal into many lines provided you have the right equipment. Cheers, Paolo Valladolid --------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ---------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Sat Apr 18 02:02:18 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 17 14:09:45 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQIOE-00074a-00; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:09:42 -0700 From: PJBMHB Message-ID: <301e2f24.3537b86d@aol.com> Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 16:15:39 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: holdsworth(was garbarek 1984) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Resent-Message-ID: <"0yRV8D.A.fyF.JO8N1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5112 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:09:42 -0700 X-UIDL: 3b39ede4b1bb50f018a7b17e6dde4462 the gtr plyrs name is john stowell. =-) PJ From ???@??? Sat Apr 18 02:02:11 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 17 13:40:50 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQHwC-0003FJ-00; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 13:40:44 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980417203445.00d06004@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 13:34:45 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Country Loops / James Reynolds Resent-Message-ID: <"aM17KB.A.TVC.uz7N1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5109 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 13:40:44 -0700 X-UIDL: a667069a5680e8e3ba347c8b9863b342 If it's the same SF-based, occasional Loop beta-testing James Reynolds that I know, he's on the list. Maybe he'll speak up.... kim At 11:53 AM 4/17/98 -0700, Joe Cavaleri wrote: >>Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 10:57:42 -0700 >>To: Lwordsman@Pirnie.com >>From: Joe Cavaleri >>Subject: Re: Country Loops >> >>At 10:28 AM 4/17/98 -0400, you wrote: >>> >>> >>>Kim Flint wrote: >>> >>>> Now as far as looping guitarist sightings go, I hear that Warren Haynes of >>>> the Allman Brothers is becoming an echoplex user/endorser. I can only >>>> imagine what that means..... >>>> >>> >>>You mean former guitarist for the Allman Brothers. Warren Haynes is >currently >>>pursuing a solo career as the front man for his band "Gov't Mule". >> >> It's interesting that you bring this item up.. >> >> Just a few weeks ago Gov't Mule had a gig at the House of Blues that a >supplier (Business!) of mine attended. Over the last few months I've been >talkin' music from time to time with said new friend, and have tried to >give him some sort background introduction about looping. He called a few >days after the show and told me at the opening act for Gov't Mule was a solo >>loopster.. someone named Jim Reynolds ??. Since I had been speaking to him >about looping he sort of understood what was going on. But what was >interesting was his explanation of the other people sitting with him.. >> >>The impression I got from this was that the other people just could not >relate to what was happening.. that this was not music. He found himself in >the position of attempting to explain to the other people what was going on.. >> I guess that when he finished his first song the response was >silence.... Anyway, as it turned out this guitar player ended up jamming >with Gov't Mule latter that night playing blues based stuff ect.. at this >time the other people at the table commented that " Oh.. this guy actuality >can play guitar.." >> >> If anybody knows who Jim Reynolds is, it might be interesting to hear of >his experiences of looping in the "real world" >> >> joe > > > > ________________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 Mpact System Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Sat Apr 18 02:02:13 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 17 13:47:29 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQI2h-00048a-00; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 13:47:27 -0700 From: Marzzz Message-ID: <865b20e0.3537be2a@aol.com> Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 16:40:09 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: EDP "Reserved" Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Resent-Message-ID: <"LqCuHC.A.BED.W57N1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5110 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 13:47:27 -0700 X-UIDL: d13d2d8f59ab3d83b4f00327fe4ffd77 In a message dated 4/17/98 5:20:54 AM, you wrote: >There are plans reserved for Reserved, but no plans to reveal the plans. Until an announcement is announced. Rumors about the "Missle Launch" feature can not be commented upon at this time. From ???@??? Sat Apr 18 02:02:24 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 17 14:43:46 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQIv9-0003go-00; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:43:43 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:31:32 -0700 Message-ID: <000C08E1.----@wj.com> From: Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle) Subject: Re[2]: SV: holdsworthian delaze To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, Paolo Valladolid Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"nPG0cD.A.JiC.Yt8N1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5114 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:43:43 -0700 X-UIDL: 34e0b5a469d0e64925cf991f0c4bd5cf Thomas W. wrote... I dont mean to flog a dead(and off topic) horse , but I do have ONE final and LAST question on this: How did he spilt his guitarsignal into 8 separate lines ,to feed the delays?? Isnt there some sort of problem with that sort of split?? (i think I read somewhere that its called "loading" or something.......) Paolo wrote... There are signal splitters out there that will buffer the signal so that the original signal level is maintained. I can't list specific products due to memory failure, but, yes, you can split the signal into many lines provided you have the right equipment. Hi all... I use a Rane SM26 which is a 6 channel Splitter / Mixer depending on how you patch it. It was used in a lot of Bradshaw rack systems for just that purpose. It can also send - return (using two channels). It's great for getting gains balanced as well. -Miko From ???@??? Sat Apr 18 02:02:24 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 17 14:40:28 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQIru-0003FD-00; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:40:22 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980417213315.00d9313c@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:33:15 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: EDP "Reserved" Resent-Message-ID: <"TrwvbD.A.KHC.eq8N1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5113 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:40:23 -0700 X-UIDL: 2e921598f25ba0e241cf8b13b7234c5a At 04:40 PM 4/17/98 EDT, Marzzz wrote: > >In a message dated 4/17/98 5:20:54 AM, you wrote: > >>There are plans reserved for Reserved, but no plans to reveal the plans. > >Until an announcement is announced. Rumors about the "Missle Launch" feature >can not be commented upon at this time. Rumors leaked by unnamed sources close to highly classified R&D laboratories suggest that very early Echoplex prototypes had the following functions listed on the front panel controls: Shields Hyperspace Torpedos The whereabouts of these prototypes is unknown. No information is available on what purpose these functions may have served or why they are not available in commercial units. Experts with top-secret credentials speculated off the record on condition of anonymity that this may have been part of a secret extra-governmental military weapons project, and that these functions may still be in use by clandestine UN special forces units. It has even been suggested that these functions may still be present in commercially available Echoplex units today, buried behind secret functional combinations. However, another unnamed source claimed to have once seen a portion of a top-secret document suggesting otherwise, that these function labels may have been part of a top-secret researcher's nostalgic fondness for early 80's video games. No rumors could be confirmed, and all agencies queried denied all knowledge of any such activity. kim ________________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 Mpact System Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Sat Apr 18 02:02:26 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 17 15:01:46 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQJCV-00060G-00; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 15:01:39 -0700 Message-Id: <199804172145.OAA27744@scv4.apple.com> Subject: Re: Re[2]: SV: holdsworthian delaze Date: Fri, 17 Apr 98 16:47:16 -0500 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"1kQha.A.6DF.zA9N1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5115 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 15:01:39 -0700 X-UIDL: a96907454a029d6f4b3980622fb147a8 >Paolo wrote... >There are signal splitters out there that will buffer the signal so that >the original signal level is maintained. I can't list specific products >due to memory failure, but, yes, you can split the signal into many lines >provided you have the right equipment. > > Hi all... I use a Rane SM26 which is a 6 channel Splitter / Mixer > depending on how you patch it. It was used in a lot of Bradshaw rack > systems for just that purpose. It can also send - return (using two > channels). It's great for getting gains balanced as well. > I bought one for that, and found that it didn't provide independent buffering--if you were feeding three units in parallel, the volume controls were interactive. Travis Hartnett From ???@??? Sat Apr 18 02:02:28 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 17 15:26:39 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQJaf-0001b9-00; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 15:26:37 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980417172221.006ae678@mail.utexas.edu> X-Sender: esker@mail.utexas.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 17:22:21 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthew hahn Subject: Re: EDP "Reserved" In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19980417213315.00d9313c@pop.chromatic.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"9TZ5q.A.bu.5W9N1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5116 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 15:26:37 -0700 X-UIDL: 5667bff24f84b69c96307f488284366c X FILES: THIS WEEK SEASON PREMIERE: UNDERCOVER LOOPING AGENTS USE ECHOPLEX TO INFILTRATE FBI HQ, SUBVERT THE OFFICIALS WITH LOOPHOLES AND WEAVE LOOPING ENSEMBLES CONFUSING SECURITY SCANS IT"S CRAZY IT"S POWERFUL IT"S WHAT THE RESERVED BUTTON ON THE ECHOPLEX CAN DO X-FILES PREMIERS THIS WEEKEND (; Mjh From ???@??? Sat Apr 18 02:02:40 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 17 17:28:23 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQLUU-0000Hb-00; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 17:28:22 -0700 Message-ID: <3537F2D2.28787954@mediaone.net> Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 20:24:51 -0400 From: innerspace@mediaone.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en]C-MOEMW (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: (no subject) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"hKgHq.A.AKH.ML_N1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5117 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 17:28:22 -0700 X-UIDL: 58b37f779b0ec001ab27554e948eef8d Looping is an area in which Mr. H has expressed considerable disinterest. >No great surprise, really. > >Later, >Jon Durant >           yer boring From ???@??? Sat Apr 18 02:02:43 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 17 18:06:33 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQM5P-0004Ej-00; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 18:06:31 -0700 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sprintmail.com From: "COLLINSCLAN" To: Subject: Re: holdsworthian delaze Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 20:55:42 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd6a64$b67d9800$8408bfa8@0QHC6SIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"LabPb.A.sYD.3t_N1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5118 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 18:06:31 -0700 X-UIDL: 98e9ac2542a55c50a46d74759bc64ed0 Couldn't you use two of the Ensoniq DP-4's with the four independent processors? Jeff -----Original Message----- From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@compuserve.com> To: INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Friday, April 17, 1998 2:45 PM Subject: Re: holdsworthian delaze >Jeff wrote: > >>So Jon, Have you tried the series/parallel configuration of delay's. I >wish >>I could because I dig the modulation he get's from them. > >Only at Allan's house. It would be, um, impossible to recreate his set-up >without considerable scavenging of the used delay market. Not something >that appeals to me right now. > >Besides which: I have no particular interest in sounding like Allan. I'd >far rather listen to the man than try to emulate his playing. Our attempt >to recreate the sound on the PCM 80 was for his purposes: he'd like to lose >the massive rack he has to cart around everywhere he goes... > >Later, >Jon Durant > > From ???@??? Sat Apr 18 02:02:44 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 17 18:12:46 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQMBR-00050b-00; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 18:12:45 -0700 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sprintmail.com From: "COLLINSCLAN" To: Subject: Re: Re[2]: SV: holdsworthian delaze Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 21:02:41 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd6a65$afd2a260$8408bfa8@0QHC6SIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"0EmiH.A.YQE.s0_N1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5119 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 18:12:45 -0700 X-UIDL: 1add89772b5be2be0df7a4f58bbce1fe I know Vernon Reid uses splitters in his rig. I believe there from Uptown Tech. Located somewhere in NY. Jeff -----Original Message----- From: Mike Biffle To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com ; Paolo Valladolid Date: Friday, April 17, 1998 5:39 PM Subject: Re[2]: SV: holdsworthian delaze >Thomas W. wrote... >I dont mean to flog a dead(and off topic) horse , but I do have ONE final and >LAST question on this: How did he spilt his guitarsignal into 8 separate lines >,to feed the delays?? Isnt there some sort of problem with that sort of split?? >(i think I read somewhere that its called "loading" or something.......) > >Paolo wrote... >There are signal splitters out there that will buffer the signal so that >the original signal level is maintained. I can't list specific products >due to memory failure, but, yes, you can split the signal into many lines >provided you have the right equipment. > > Hi all... I use a Rane SM26 which is a 6 channel Splitter / Mixer > depending on how you patch it. It was used in a lot of Bradshaw rack > systems for just that purpose. It can also send - return (using two > channels). It's great for getting gains balanced as well. > > -Miko > > From ???@??? Sat Apr 18 02:02:55 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 18 00:47:12 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQSL9-00044G-00; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 00:47:11 -0700 Message-ID: <004401bd6a9d$bc09a3c0$13da80d0@toaster.431.org> From: "James Reynolds" To: Subject: Re: Country Loops / James Reynolds Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 00:43:48 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"q-TJ5C.A.fkD.onFO1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5120 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 00:47:11 -0700 X-UIDL: c0b8ee009e0a54a6da214e7c554ae5f6 hmm, nope, wasn't me.. during the winter NAMM show, a colleauge dragged me to the gibson-sponsored extravaganza at the whiskey, where i had the distinct pleasure of watching gov't mule open for zakk wylde. now i consider myself to be a very musically open-minded person, but the thought of opening for a band that opened for zakk wylde quite frankly makes me want to swallow my own tongue... graakmmph.. james -----Original Message----- From: Kim Flint To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Friday, April 17, 1998 1:38 PM Subject: Re: Country Loops / James Reynolds >If it's the same SF-based, occasional Loop beta-testing James Reynolds that >I know, he's on the list. Maybe he'll speak up.... > >kim > > >At 11:53 AM 4/17/98 -0700, Joe Cavaleri wrote: >>>Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 10:57:42 -0700 >>>To: Lwordsman@Pirnie.com >>>From: Joe Cavaleri >>>Subject: Re: Country Loops >>> >>>At 10:28 AM 4/17/98 -0400, you wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>Kim Flint wrote: >>>> >>>>> Now as far as looping guitarist sightings go, I hear that Warren Haynes of >>>>> the Allman Brothers is becoming an echoplex user/endorser. I can only >>>>> imagine what that means..... >>>>> >>>> >>>>You mean former guitarist for the Allman Brothers. Warren Haynes is >>currently >>>>pursuing a solo career as the front man for his band "Gov't Mule". >>> >>> It's interesting that you bring this item up.. >>> >>> Just a few weeks ago Gov't Mule had a gig at the House of Blues that a >>supplier (Business!) of mine attended. Over the last few months I've been >>talkin' music from time to time with said new friend, and have tried to >>give him some sort background introduction about looping. He called a few >>days after the show and told me at the opening act for Gov't Mule was a solo >>>loopster.. someone named Jim Reynolds ??. Since I had been speaking to him >>about looping he sort of understood what was going on. But what was >>interesting was his explanation of the other people sitting with him.. >>> >>>The impression I got from this was that the other people just could not >>relate to what was happening.. that this was not music. He found himself in >>the position of attempting to explain to the other people what was going on.. >>> I guess that when he finished his first song the response was >>silence.... Anyway, as it turned out this guitar player ended up jamming >>with Gov't Mule latter that night playing blues based stuff ect.. at this >>time the other people at the table commented that " Oh.. this guy actuality >>can play guitar.." >>> >>> If anybody knows who Jim Reynolds is, it might be interesting to hear of >>his experiences of looping in the "real world" >>> >>> joe >> >> >> >> >________________________________________________________ >Kim Flint 408-752-9284 >Mpact System Engineering kflint@chromatic.com >Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com > > From ???@??? Sat Apr 18 12:09:26 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 18 09:05:43 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQa7b-0006Zu-00; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 09:05:43 -0700 Message-Id: <199804181602.MAA19280@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: Loops onstage, MORSE, MMW Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 12:01:02 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LwFmgD.A.G6F.66MO1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5121 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 09:05:43 -0700 X-UIDL: 9c9ef493cb6b11e444ae4d48e0469d0e just saw 2 excelent shows..... Steve Morse band - 4/16 at Tramps in NYC ; First nite of the tour - these guys are soooo scary - esp. since they hadn't played together in a year - yet they destroyed... Either you like Steve's music or ya don't , i won't proselytize... they did a diverse set - even some rarely played Dizie Dregs stuff..! but he was fantastic. Steve's one of the few major artists left who plays with a huge, fridge size rack!!! He basically runs several signals (clean, edge, distort, short echo, long echo, evil horrible guitarsynth), which he controls the total mix of thru 5 ernie ball vol pedals...and near the show's end - he did a great impromptu loop sculpture, some cool pizzicato arpeggio which he then floated some cloudy guitar over, while drummer Van Romaine played a tom-tom beat in time with the changing loops.... i'm pretty sure he loops with vintage Lexicon stuff.. Medeski Martin Wood- 4/17 Count Basie Theatre, Red bank NJ another great show - these guys have the shit!! Funky grooves, straight ahead jazz, bizarre 'found sound' improvs But with DJ Logic on stage, they actually did some LOOPY stuff in the lenghtly jams in the 2nd set.... i wasn't sure if i was hearing 'manual looping' or an electronic device, but the MAGIC OF REPETITION was in the air.... (right now i'm listening to their mail order/at shows only CD "Farmers Reserve" which is a must for any modern-aleatoric music fans.. check http://www.mmw.net ) anyway - see some of you tonite at B.L.U.E.??? i'll be at both shows, Look for my Unkempt afro and dreadlocks in the back.... And if ya miss it - don't miss it online!!! http://www.knittingfactory.com !! I did my first recording-of-music-off- the neet this week (pat metheny) and it came out great !! just get the right connectors at radio shack.... peace. andre east From ???@??? Sat Apr 18 12:09:27 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 18 09:09:21 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQaB5-000717-00; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 09:09:19 -0700 Message-Id: <199804181605.MAA20117@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: Warren da Looper !?? Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 12:03:47 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ps2REB.A.RMG.e9MO1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5122 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 09:09:19 -0700 X-UIDL: a63a9e23c6e18bbc009441137cd4cef3 ---------- > From: Kim Flint > To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Subject: Re: Re: SV: Garbarek album (from 1984) > > Now as far as looping guitarist sightings go, I hear that Warren Haynes of > the Allman Brothers is becoming an echoplex user/endorser. I can only > imagine what that means..... > > kim > perhaps it means that another great guitar player will enter the LOOP WORLD....and help spread the word to his huge (and growing) audience.....?? Can't hurt. The guy plays his ass off. And loves mushrooms. playin yer ass off + mushrooms + Looping device = Something thought provoking gets recorded !!! andre' From ???@??? Sat Apr 18 12:09:33 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 18 10:28:46 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQbPx-000568-00; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 10:28:45 -0700 From: Marzzz Message-ID: Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 13:25:33 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: More recent Torn Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Resent-Message-ID: <"J-Wdd.A.jgE.wIOO1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5123 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 10:28:45 -0700 X-UIDL: 46489efd6b24d6fb8d85b26bb0404eb1 In a message dated 4/16/98 10:50:08 AM, you wrote: >The two releases I found most attracted by from the Alchemy catalog are >Robby Aceto's "Code" and "Silent Extinction Beyond the Zero" by Mr. >Durant himself. I agree. I got "Silent Extinction...." and enjoy Jon's CD thoroughly!!!! Quite the nice tone he gets there, also! Marshall From ???@??? Sat Apr 18 12:09:34 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 18 10:40:26 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQbbC-0006MN-00; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 10:40:22 -0700 From: Marzzz Message-ID: Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 13:35:49 EDT To: andre@monmouth.com, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Warren da Looper !?? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Resent-Message-ID: <"ZuaFoD.A.fhF.6SOO1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5124 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 10:40:22 -0700 X-UIDL: e60f18bcb44c0467ad5055240bc1cb05 In a message dated 4/18/98 11:08:37 AM, you wrote: >Can't hurt. The guy plays his ass off. And loves mushrooms.> You mean, like Shitake and Portabello? Marshall From ???@??? Sat Apr 18 12:09:35 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 18 10:43:07 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQbdq-0006hE-00; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 10:43:06 -0700 Message-Id: <199804181738.NAA21332@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: Philly area folk..... Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 13:36:54 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"K5tRvC.A.TyF.0UOO1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5125 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 10:43:06 -0700 X-UIDL: c028ac6c520c7611e51ab35a0df5f73c hey all... really relevant only to Philly area loopers and prog heads esp. I was interviewed for this weeks issue of "Philadelphia Weekly" - one of the free papers... it's an article about the state of progressive music, etc, Gary Davis and Adam Levin , i tried to get a plug in for ya, since my portion of the interview focussed on the 'net and it's capacity to help all us undergound weirdos.... also in the interview were Bill Bruford and i believe, Stanley Clarke.... So, if you're not already fed up with my opinions already, you can read 'em in this week's paper!!! andre' From ???@??? Sat Apr 18 12:09:41 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 18 11:21:43 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQcFB-0001sx-00; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 11:21:41 -0700 Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 14:18:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199804181818.OAA03692@shell.monmouth.com> X-Sender: sdcurtin@mail.monmouth.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: sdcurtin@monmouth.com (Steven Curtin) Subject: Hello out there X-Mailer: Resent-Message-ID: <"qeLO2C.A.bdB.Q6OO1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5126 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 11:21:41 -0700 X-UIDL: 2a7634c4170ddd8d1d1cd5e9000fbb05 Hi all- I've just joined the list and wanted to introduce myself, although a number of people on this list know me already from my anti-MIDI postings on the digital guitar list :). I've been looping guitars and synthesizer for almost twenty years, first in college in St. Paul, Minnesota with of all people Bob Mould and tape delays, one of which was a loop that surrounded the performers on stage. Then it was Deltalab Effectron and homebrew analog synth and guitar. I've done some stuff with the 56000 DSP but am starting to work with programmable logic such as the Philips cPLD device to build a looping device that allows me to modify the looped signal once it's been recorded- more on this once it starts to become real. I've built and use among other things a fretless hexaphonic guitar, which once was run through an Ensoniq DP-4 with each string on a different delay, so playing a single chord would result in a very complicated arpeggio thing. My latest love is Theremin, using the PAiA Theremax kit. It's nice to see a list where there's so much discussion about what people do musically with the equipment rather than what equipment's being used. If anyone asks what kind of music I do it's best described as Experimental Ethno-Ambient Space Music. regards, Steven Curtin http://www.emf.org/people_curtin.html From ???@??? Sat Apr 18 12:09:42 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 18 12:09:17 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQczE-0005RF-00; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 12:09:16 -0700 Message-ID: <3538F9CC.CA08C82E@mediaone.net> Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 15:06:52 -0400 From: innerspace@mediaone.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en]C-MOEMW (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Hello out there References: <199804181818.OAA03692@shell.monmouth.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"P6PEPC.A.Q0E._mPO1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5127 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 12:09:16 -0700 X-UIDL: 78971de3f83073fa300a999b7f14b7c5 hello steven, very nice to meet you Steven Curtin wrote: > Hi all- > I've just joined the list and wanted to introduce myself, although a number > of people on this list know me already from my anti-MIDI postings on the > digital guitar list :). > > I've been looping guitars and synthesizer for almost twenty years, first in > college in St. Paul, Minnesota with of all people Bob Mould and tape delays, > one of which was a loop that surrounded the performers on stage.  Then it > was Deltalab Effectron and homebrew analog synth and guitar. > > I've done some stuff with the 56000 DSP but am starting to work with > programmable logic such as the Philips cPLD device to build a looping device > that allows me to modify the looped signal once it's been recorded- more on > this once it starts to become real. > > I've built and use among other things a fretless hexaphonic guitar, which > once was run through an Ensoniq DP-4 with each string on a different delay, > so playing a single chord would result in a very complicated arpeggio thing. > My latest love is Theremin, using the PAiA Theremax kit. > > It's nice to see a list where there's so much discussion about what people > do musically with the equipment rather than what equipment's being used.  If > anyone asks what kind of music I do it's best described as Experimental > Ethno-Ambient Space Music. > > regards, > > Steven Curtin > http://www.emf.org/people_curtin.html   From ???@??? Sat Apr 18 18:34:33 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 18 12:26:46 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQdG9-0006zx-00; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 12:26:45 -0700 Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 15:23:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Pete Koniuto To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: B.L.U.E. show Boston Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"TahsOB.A.AOG.B3PO1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5128 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 12:26:45 -0700 X-UIDL: a8b3709f3514884f8a907daf088ed9bd There seems to be some confusion among the press for showtime--seen 3 different times! Called House o' Blues. Show is at 9:30p, just in case y'all heard otherwise. Pete K. From ???@??? Sat Apr 18 18:34:38 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 18 14:19:10 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQf0v-0007LU-00; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 14:19:09 -0700 Message-ID: <353919E4.17C8DD9D@bellsouth.net> Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 17:23:48 -0400 From: Jeff & Mary Duke Reply-To: jmar@bellsouth.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: andre@monmouth.com CC: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Loops onstage, MORSE, MMW References: <199804181602.MAA19280@shell.monmouth.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Qs6QDC.A.AiG.dgRO1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5129 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 14:19:09 -0700 X-UIDL: 5027bf30d9a2efc5440de8dfd9513014 Now David is warming up his ood. andre wrote: > anyway - see some of you tonite at B.L.U.E.??? i'll be at both shows, Look > for my Unkempt afro and dreadlocks in the back.... > > And if ya miss it - don't miss it online!!! http://www.knittingfactory.com > !! I did my first recording-of-music-off- the neet this week (pat metheny) > and it came out great !! just get the right connectors at radio shack.... > > peace. > > andre east From ???@??? Sat Apr 18 18:34:39 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 18 14:54:00 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQfYc-0002YM-00; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 14:53:58 -0700 From: "Woehni" To: Subject: alchemy and netshopping. Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 23:48:41 +0200 Message-ID: <01bd6b13$c0aa9f80$81004382@pentium-200> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"XtrV8.A.UDC.MBSO1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5131 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 14:53:58 -0700 X-UIDL: 69d8813055151e8161df0988e4fd1f00 > >>The two releases I found most attracted by from the Alchemy catalog are >>Robby Aceto's "Code" and "Silent Extinction Beyond the Zero" by Mr. >>Durant himself. > Hi all , I read through the Alchemy webpage a while back and I wanted to order the whole catalog! Only problem is: I`m told its not smart to leave your creditcard-number on the net. It can be used for "ill purposes" I`m told. And sending a check is a real hassle .... Any solutions??? From ???@??? Sat Apr 18 18:34:38 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 18 14:35:47 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQfGz-0000yg-00; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 14:35:45 -0700 Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 16:49:39 -0500 From: John Pollock Subject: Re: Loops onstage, MORSE, MMW To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Message-id: <35391FF3.94@delphi.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <199804181602.MAA19280@shell.monmouth.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"w6LXAD.A.Il.CwRO1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5130 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 14:35:45 -0700 X-UIDL: 9051010c125d40f1d49073c377613c69 Steve Morse has been looping for a long time; my first exposure to looping came at one of his clinics back in 1985 or '86. Details at http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock/setup.htm#sm if you're interested.\ John andre wrote: > > just saw 2 excelent shows..... > > Steve Morse band - 4/16 at Tramps in NYC ; > First nite of the tour - these guys are soooo scary - esp. since they > hadn't played together in a year - yet they destroyed... Either you like > Steve's music or ya don't , i won't proselytize... they did a diverse set - > even some rarely played Dizie Dregs stuff..! > > but he was fantastic. Steve's one of the few major artists left who plays > with a huge, fridge size rack!!! He basically runs several signals (clean, > edge, distort, short echo, long echo, evil horrible guitarsynth), which he > controls the total mix of thru 5 ernie ball vol pedals...and near the > show's end - he did a great impromptu loop sculpture, some cool pizzicato > arpeggio which he then floated some cloudy guitar over, while drummer Van > Romaine played a tom-tom beat in time with the changing loops.... i'm > pretty sure he loops with vintage Lexicon stuff.. From ???@??? Sat Apr 18 18:34:40 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 18 15:06:13 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQfkS-0003T5-00; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 15:06:12 -0700 From: "Woehni" To: Subject: SV: Loops onstage, MORSE, MMW Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 00:00:56 +0200 Message-ID: <01bd6b15$769b0cc0$81004382@pentium-200> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"0JKDyB.A.L7C.vMSO1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5132 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 15:06:12 -0700 X-UIDL: d46b1156809badefadd3df9ed58e8956 He basically runs several signals (clean, >> edge, distort, short echo, long echo, evil horrible guitarsynth), which he >> controls the total mix of thru 5 ernie ball vol pedals.. This sounds like a nice setup........you can make more gradual shifts in the sounds , if what im thinking works : spilt signal in five AFTER preamp and go into 5 different lines and then reunite them with a mixer and into the poweramp.......whould this work??? Thomas From ???@??? Sat Apr 18 18:34:42 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 18 15:47:17 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQgOC-0006Xv-00; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 15:47:16 -0700 From: "Woehni" To: Subject: profile on ME! Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 00:42:15 +0200 Message-ID: <01bd6b1b$3c1c0440$81004382@pentium-200> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"8tpK_C.A.O5F.azSO1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5133 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 15:47:16 -0700 X-UIDL: a755355434f514a2716faad83e4263ca Hi people , I just wrote a Profile on myself at the LD homepage , so those of you who`s wondered WTF in jabbering about there lies some answers. Look for Thomas W¿hni then again , why bother? From ???@??? Sat Apr 18 18:34:45 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 18 16:17:19 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQgrG-0000z5-00; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 16:17:18 -0700 From: Marzzz Message-ID: <203f36f8.353933a9@aol.com> Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 19:13:44 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: alchemy and netshopping. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Resent-Message-ID: <"OGdHUC.A.no.ePTO1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5134 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 16:17:18 -0700 X-UIDL: 2e1ade8ffb6304e4c72604f77dec898d In a message dated 4/18/98 4:52:24 PM, you wrote: > Hi all , I read through the Alchemy webpage a while back and I wanted to order > >the whole catalog! Only problem is: I`m told its not smart to leave your creditcard-number > >on the net. It can be used for "ill purposes" I`m told. And sending a check is >a real hassle .... > > > >Any solutions??? I have the same trepidations. I called their toll-free number and ordered over the phone. 800-292-6932 Marshall From ???@??? Sat Apr 18 18:34:46 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 18 16:41:40 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQhEo-0002jC-00; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 16:41:38 -0700 From: Marzzz Message-ID: <3022cb80.35393960@aol.com> Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 19:38:06 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: holdsworthian delaze Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Resent-Message-ID: <"07bE4D.A.uPC.OmTO1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5135 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 16:41:38 -0700 X-UIDL: 5462f554a5b44ee7dd1ecc5b2cbf982d In a message dated 4/17/98 9:39:09 AM, Jon Durant wrote: >We painstakingly recreated all of the delay, modulation and panning setings >in a PCM 80, and A/B'd the two. It wasn't even close to his mammoth rig. >Why? My guess is that all those different delays, with different analog >sections, created something wholly unique, and a single clock-rate chip, no >matter how advanced, could not duplicate the vibe which was going on. I would also like to speculate that when you're dealing with individual milliseconds, as in the mammoth set-up, you have to factor in the "vibe" of all those inter-connections, A/D-D/A conversions, cables, buffers, etc. etc.. I suspect that in trying to duplicate the sound with one multi-effect like a PCM-80 you really need to start from absolute scratch and approach it with a bit of serendipity. Marshall From ???@??? Sat Apr 18 18:34:46 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 18 16:46:59 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQhJw-0003Lx-00; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 16:46:56 -0700 From: Marzzz Message-ID: <49dce381.35393a73@aol.com> Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 19:42:42 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: holdsworth(was garbarek 1984) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Resent-Message-ID: <"ZFCyFC.A.y1C.NrTO1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5136 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 16:46:56 -0700 X-UIDL: 09d998515572d2928d740d4af3af64ae In a message dated 4/17/98 11:56:41 AM, Paolo wrote: >> >>I have not seen the video but I do have teh book Just For the Curious. >> >>His phrasing is unique among guitarists (e.g. lots of perfect fourths) >> >>because he effortlessly uses fingerings that most guitarists would not >> >>consider "comfortable". It's worth checking out for guitarists (and >> >>Stick players) who want to take their phrasing in a different direction. >> >> Forget not "comfortable", how about physically impossible?? I have seen the > >No, not physically impossible, unless you have unusually small hands or >unusually short fingers. As mentioned earlier, I met Holdsworth briefly >at a guitar clinic in San Marcos and found his hands to be quite normal >in size. I haven't had the opportunity to meet AH, but I have seen picture of him, particularly with other people, and one of him riding his bicycle. He appears to be a bit on the tall side (6'3"?) and I would gues his hands are a little bit above average in size. My hands are slightly smaller than average, but I can span a tenth on a piano easily, for instance. >> video tape for "Just for the Curious" and I could not believe the kinds of >> fingerings he seemed to be reaching effortlessly....one in particular was an >> extremely wide stretch with the index and pinky, and the middle and ring >> fingers jammed close together in the middle- I couldn't play it with two hands >> and my nose..... > >It's all just practice. There's a jazz guitarist in the Pacific Northwest >(sorry forgot his name) who plays similarly close-voiced chords a lot. He >recommends having a low action on your guitar and using the side of the >index finger instead of the pad for the most extreme stretches. Keep in >mind that Holdsworth will occasionally fret notes with the right hand. >So basically, just lower your action, work your way up, etc. Relax, of course. >:) I can't relax. I panic! Seriously, my guitar has a pretty low action, but some of the stretches are justy out of my reach......then again, I can't dunk a basketball, either!! Marshall From ???@??? Sat Apr 18 18:34:47 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 18 17:17:10 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQhn9-0005ea-00; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 17:17:07 -0700 From: Fmplautus Message-ID: <33d070da.3539419f@aol.com> Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 20:13:09 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: LoOpdOctOrs live tonite at the Beanery Coffeee house in Ashland, Oregon Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 84 Resent-Message-ID: <"6DexQC.A.r_E.eHUO1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5137 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 17:17:07 -0700 X-UIDL: ce64dcb3fca263e0e94542f7719ea7b7 We're playing live tonite, Saturday, April 18, 1998 at Cafe Beanery...1602 Ashland St. Ashland. Please be there or have a note from your psychiatrist. Best, the LoOpdOctOrs From ???@??? Sat Apr 18 18:34:48 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 18 17:30:02 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQhza-0006e7-00; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 17:29:58 -0700 From: NEMOGUIT Message-ID: <3eb9b068.353944bb@aol.com> Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 20:26:34 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: No Subject Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 81 Resent-Message-ID: <"VekPiB.A.e6F.gTUO1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5138 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 17:29:58 -0700 X-UIDL: 90b4a202f47985006629b7adcc8fc90c hello stephen and welcome thomas-send me your credit card and i will protect it :) marshal-you are correct, there are soooo many chords that my hands can not grab. i dont think music should hurt............... (that much)!! From ???@??? Sat Apr 18 18:34:48 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 18 17:36:02 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQi5R-0007Nf-00; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 17:36:01 -0700 Message-ID: <35394846.4DD3@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 17:41:43 -0700 From: Andre LaFosse Reply-To: altruist@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Hello out there References: <199804181818.OAA03692@shell.monmouth.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ZYgluC.A.vkG.9YUO1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5139 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 17:36:01 -0700 X-UIDL: 99a10f68cd58a57e6caa627450ac1004 Hi Steven -- Did you attend Macalester College? I studied there for two years before transferring to CalArts. Your references to Bob Mould, a DeltaLab Effectron, and long tape delays sounds like a dead ringer for Mac. I don't know when you went there, but we might have some instructors in common (Ed Forner, Jan Gilbert, Carleton Macy, Sowah Mensah, or Tom Cravens ring a bell?) I took the Electronic Music class which Ed taught, which revolved around the music building's upstairs studio, which is probably most famous for being the place where Steve Tibbetts recorded his first album. At the time I was there, the lab had a great old MiniMoog, which was far and away the most popular instrument, with the sampler being right below it. Wow, down memory lane! Anyway, I'd be curious to know how much common history we might have. Best, --Andre LaFosse From ???@??? Sun Apr 19 13:14:23 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 19 05:43:59 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQtRu-00050J-00; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 05:43:58 -0700 Message-Id: <199804191241.IAA10652@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: Re: alchemy and netshopping. Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 08:39:38 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Dq1Sa.A.aeE.HEfO1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5140 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 05:43:58 -0700 X-UIDL: 7aaa680bd0e48fd174785d2b9bc977f0 > >>The two releases I found most attracted by from the Alchemy catalog are >>Robby Aceto's "Code" and "Silent Extinction Beyond the Zero" by Mr. >>Durant himself. > Hi all , I read through the Alchemy webpage a while back and I wanted to order the whole catalog! Only problem is: I`m told its not smart to leave your creditcard-number on the net. It can be used for "ill purposes" I`m told. And sending a check is a real hassle .... Any solutions??? how bout - get their phone number and give your credit card nbr on *the phone*....... it's safer than the net (!??!) - ac ---------- From ???@??? Sun Apr 19 13:14:24 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 19 06:13:52 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQtuq-0006se-00; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 06:13:52 -0700 Message-Id: <199804191311.JAA16921@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: Re: Loops onstage, MORSE, MMW Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 09:08:55 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"H066-B.A.fQG.NgfO1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5141 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 06:13:52 -0700 X-UIDL: 8369cd8180cc364b2398ef2f1c73caba He (Steve Morse)basically runs several signals (clean, >> edge, distort, short echo, long echo, evil horrible guitarsynth), which he >> controls the total mix of thru 5 ernie ball vol pedals.. This sounds like a nice setup........you can make more gradual shifts in the sounds , if what im thinking works : spilt signal in five AFTER preamp and go into 5 different lines and then reunite them with a mixer and into the poweramp.......whould this work??? Thomas works beautiously... it's like having a soundboard at yer feet..... and the clean sound is nicely unbuffered. Vernon Reid was running his system like this for a while, and doing some fat looping!! But he no longer seems to wann lug the rack... that's the only hassle. check www.stevemorse.com, maybe there's some gear info - he's broken it all down in the press before, so it's somewhare on the web. andre' From ???@??? Sun Apr 19 13:14:28 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 19 07:33:19 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQv9h-0003kl-00; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 07:33:17 -0700 Message-Id: <199804191430.KAA06689@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: they B.L.U.E.... Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 10:28:49 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Ec3iEB.A.cSD.dqgO1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5142 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 07:33:17 -0700 X-UIDL: d8c0a086cb8e35bec0235fbaf0527036 wow.. words are never gonna capture this one..... "amazing" sounds cliche... Bruford was transcendent, Botti a work of art, Torn magnificent, out of his friggin MIND in the second set, and Tony was wild - having the time of his life!! and rocking around the stage..ebullient 2nd set was a blister raiser - 20 more minutes than the just over an hour 1st set.. 2nd set also saw the very cool OUD improv & loops..which DT then did some very gutbucket National Steel slide over... Excellent sound throughout, the boys seemed to have a stellar time!! Gearheads dep't: new drumset setup for bruford - all acoustic Tamas, remote snare, cowbell. 4 toms, a floor, bass & snare. all drums ex. bass were mounted completely horizontal... (flat hitting surface, no angle to the ground..) DT with his rack fr hell - 2 echoplexi, vortex, roland sampler, lexicon pcm 42 , lex multi FX, mixer, assorted toys (ebow, tape player, slides) - on the floor - auto wah, wah, TC stuff , lotsa expression pedals, controls for 2 echopli and rivera amps, played the klein, oud and national Tony Levin - stick, Steinberger standup (including some bowed stuff), the burnt bass (see papabear.com) - thru trace elliot, and a boogie half stack (!??) he had his bradshaw(?) rack controller, 2 roland vol pedals - the rack had the fat TC multi effects unit, a drawer with all kinds of toy looped in - i saw an old MXR phaser, a Big Muff, many more. Chris Botti - the lucky one (gear-lugging-wise !!!) - fine trumpet with a wireless mic, mute. he was really great - excellent tone, fine solos highlight - a tune from Cloud about Merc - i won't spoil the surprise !! Otherwise, lots of stuff from BLUE CD, but turbo charged for the tour, lots of new areas of exploration.... meeting Tony and Bill afterward was one my favorite moments ever!! These guys are some of my greatest heroes... and so cool and down to earth!! andre' (p.s. i'll inform when i website/post the article i was involved in that bruford did in this week's philly weekly) From ???@??? Sun Apr 19 13:14:31 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 19 07:47:40 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQvNc-0004wi-00; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 07:47:40 -0700 Message-Id: <199804191445.XAA16156@mail.st.rim.or.jp> Subject: Re: More recent Torn Date: Sun, 19 Apr 98 23:48:12 +0900 x-sender: liminal@mail.st.rim.or.jp x-mailer: Claris Emailer-J 1.1 From: Yoshi matsumoto To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"2Bg2YB.A.lbE.G4gO1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5143 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 07:47:40 -0700 X-UIDL: 57ea124025eab8bd2994816f27ad9256 >> One work I'm endlessly fond of is Mark Isham's soundtrack to "Beast", >> where DT's sounds really shine. > >Torn mentioned this film back in 1993, so i rented it. >Yeah, he's all over it--great work. I didn't know the >soundtrack was available though. Anyone seen it >recently? ...and while I'm at it I once saw a preview for a movie called (I think) Mortal Thoughts, which sounded very Torn-esque. Anyone know if this soundtrack is available? >And as for being less than 100% satisfied with SURA, >would you like to part with it for a small fee? >(Smiley faces and all that) > >Pete Koniuto Actually, that would be absolutely no problem. Please send me your address via email and I'll send it right over... -Yoshi matsumoto liminal@st.rim.or.jp * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Grass doesn't grow on busy streets. -Edvard Graham Lewis * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Yoshi Matsumoto email: liminal@st.rim.or.jp web: http://www.at-m.or.jp/~liminal * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From ???@??? Sun Apr 19 13:14:36 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 19 09:30:18 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQwyv-0004WD-00; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 09:30:17 -0700 From: NEMOGUIT Message-ID: <11583d79.353a25b6@aol.com> Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 12:26:28 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: some feedback please!! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 81 Resent-Message-ID: <"zuAvG.A.f5D.uXiO1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5144 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 09:30:17 -0700 X-UIDL: d9456e6e9c640faacd5194d7e10f361d if kims statement is true, that looping is not a genra (sp) but a tool to create music,then this question is not off base, too much....... the fedareales, in their most giving mode, are sending me some of my hard earned pennys back from my taxes. oh happy day!! rather than doing something stupid with this moola, like paying bills, i am going to invest in my first link to the world of loopermainia, a new guitar. i shiver at the thought! i am hot for a carvin ae 185. this is an acoustic-electric, has 2 lines out, one acoustic the other elec. this alone makes my mind spin. i have never seen nor played a carvin in real life or in any life for that matter. i think there are one or two guitarist in this group so maybe you all could direct me in my choice. i also saw that washburn (i have no idea as to what these are like) are incorporateing the buzz feinten tuning system. do i even want to go there?? the ae 185 after i add a few things comes in at 930.00 with case. if after 10 days i do not like it, i send it back for a full refund even though it is custom made. this i think is an excellent idea. any thoughts, suggestions, ideas........please!!!..............thanks..........michael From ???@??? Sun Apr 19 13:14:44 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 19 11:59:48 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yQzJb-00007q-00; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 11:59:47 -0700 From: "Woehni" To: Subject: feedback on carvin 185 ae Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 20:54:37 +0200 Message-ID: <01bd6bc4$99caaac0$a7024382@pentium-200> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"Bu7MP.A.gNH.SkkO1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5145 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 11:59:47 -0700 X-UIDL: 04eb9601d2ff7d81dfa4c1f05256aca1 hey there , pal I owned one of the guitars you are referring to (carvin 185 ae) for over a year. I was not happy with it. The electric sound was ok , but not to my taste. It was very undynamic and made me feel like I was playing through a bad compressor. Not enough juice........ The acoustic sound was like a bad copy of an Ovation acoustic with that sharp ,thin sound. I`m not saying Carvin makes bad electric acoustics but I don`t think they work if you`re looking for an "authentic" ac. sound. My problem with Carvin-guitars is the sound. Everything else is perfect: it stays in tune , easy to play , good balance when you wear it........all that. But it`s like they compromised the sound in order to gain all these things. It does a little of everything , but none good is my impression of Carvin. Two weeks after I sold it the the guy called and asked if I wanted to buy it back. Thats how I felt too , after that "1 week trial" you get >from them. I know it seems like I`ve got a major grudge against Carvin , but I urge you...........you should locate a used one and try to borrow it and test it without the 1 week hanging over your head. It certainly got me........... Good luck , I know exactly how you feel. (I almost purchased a Steinberger direct from USA, >from "Ed Roman - guitars" . any of you heard of him??)) Yours , Thomas W (wich roughly translated to Norwegian means "Carvin-Butcher") From ???@??? Sun Apr 19 16:37:44 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 19 15:12:32 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yR2K8-0005Be-00; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 15:12:32 -0700 X-From_:innerspace@mediaone.net Sun Apr 19 15:12:30 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net ([207.171.193.21] helo=falcon.slip.net) by ferret.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for loopers-delight@slip.net id 0yR2K5-0005BF-00; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 15:12:29 -0700 Received: from [24.131.1.17] (helo=mw.mediaone.net) by falcon.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com id 0yR2K5-0006is-00; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 15:12:29 -0700 Received: from mediaone.net ([24.131.4.70]) by mw.mediaone.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with ESMTP id AAA15211 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 18:12:27 -0400 Message-ID: <353A76DB.50C23921@mediaone.net> Old-Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 18:12:43 -0400 From: innerspace@mediaone.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en]C-MOEMW (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: (no subject) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Diagnostic: undecipherable, help sent X-Envelope-To: Loopers-Delight Sender: SmartList Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 15:12:32 -0700 X-UIDL: 4666278a6dac04f2ac2e41ac4748fa7c approach it with a bit of serendipity.       From ???@??? Sun Apr 19 16:37:44 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 19 15:26:57 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yR2Y4-0006C0-00; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 15:26:56 -0700 Message-ID: <353A79AE.A1166176@mediaone.net> Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 18:24:46 -0400 From: innerspace@mediaone.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en]C-MOEMW (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: do i even want to gothere? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kZMICD.A.gkF.hmnO1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5146 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 15:26:56 -0700 X-UIDL: 242c1d6f9b9634748b1d48b6c80b0c2e do i even want to gothere? I'd stay away from those guits if i were  you. frankly, I believe one could do more with a junk guitar and a little serendipity-do-dah...;-)   there washburn (i have no idea as to what these are like)?? do i even want to go there washburn (i have no idea as to what these are like)?? do i even want to go there washburn (i have no idea as to what these are like)?? do i even want to go there washburn (i have no idea as to what these are like)?? do i even want to go there washburn (i have no idea as to what these are like)?? do i even want to go there washburn (i have no idea as to what these are like)?? From ???@??? Mon Apr 20 10:06:23 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 20 04:44:49 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRF0C-0007jn-00; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 04:44:48 -0700 Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 07:38:39 -0400 From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@compuserve.com> Subject: alchemy and netshopping. Sender: Jon Durant <74074.1316@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Message-ID: <199804200741_MC2-3A68-ABF0@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"gNP8QD.A.3BH.lSzO1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5147 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 04:44:48 -0700 X-UIDL: bba2cb7611bc93e6f9bfc26eaee05d2f Thomas wrote: > Hi all , I read through the Alchemy webpage a while back and I wanted to order >the whole catalog! Only problem is: I`m told its not smart to leave your creditcard->number >on the net. It can be used for "ill purposes" I`m told. And sending a check is a real >hassle .... > >Any solutions??? If you're from outside the US (you're Norwegian, yes?) you can either call or fax to 781-383-0086. If you'd like, drop me a private email (74074.1316@ compuserve.com) with your fax number or snail mail and I'll be happy to send an order form which you can send back by fax or snail mail. Later, Jon Durant From ???@??? Mon Apr 20 10:06:29 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 20 06:28:24 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRGcP-0005vA-00; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 06:28:21 -0700 Message-ID: <353B4CDA.68D273C@Pirnie.com> Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 09:25:46 -0400 From: "Lee Wordsman" Reply-To: Lwordsman@Pirnie.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: warren haynes References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"hjXRWC.A.ENF.4y0O1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5149 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 06:28:21 -0700 X-UIDL: ff40c12d8f91ac3c35c2462984e4bbf0 Kim Flint wrote: since he's just getting one of these things, I would guess it would be the next album with the soundscaped-ambient-drum-and-bass-country-rock on it. In the words of the Amazing Human Torch ( of Fantastic Four fame) "FLAME ON!" ; } Do not underestimate the powers of Warren Haynes. Gov't Mule is not a country rock band (nor are the Allman Brothers). A more appropriatte comparison would be to live Cream. In that context, the idea of Warren using an echoplex may be quite interesting. From ???@??? Mon Apr 20 10:06:54 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 20 08:25:08 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRIRN-0004SF-00; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 08:25:05 -0700 X-Sender: pmurphy@mail.nash.gibson.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 10:17:39 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Pat Murphy Subject: Re: Oberheim still alive? In-Reply-To: <01BD6A40.2FC6A280.mpeters@csi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: <98Apr20.101650cdt.26882@gateway.gibson.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"ZBvpAD.A.JUD.td2O1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5150 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 08:25:05 -0700 X-UIDL: 33a2fff4bcd9563f5f43c750b74eb94e At 01:33 PM 4/17/98 -0500, you wrote: >saw impressing views from stormy Nashville on the German news tonight. >Pat Murphy? Are you ok? Is Oberheim still intact? > >michael peters mpeters@csi.com >http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Mpeters/ > Oberheim is still alive. It was pretty intense. The tornado went through my neighborhood. Trees and power lines down everywhere. A tree blew over on my place. I had no electricity or phone for 2 days. Some buildings were leveled a few blocks away. All and all we were very fortunate. No one killed. Whew....... From ???@??? Mon Apr 20 22:56:45 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 20 11:16:32 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRL7D-0000MB-00; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:16:27 -0700 From: "Woehni" To: Subject: SV: Assd. Holdsworthisms Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 18:17:48 +0200 Message-ID: <01bd6c77$dc1f78c0$fe004382@pentium-200> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"-O2DID.A.2jG.V84O1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5152 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:16:27 -0700 X-UIDL: 5a993cb29089f801c0f9279e6152fcf5 > >On the big hands issue, I went through Uncommon Chord and revoiced the >chords into handy intervals. OK, so my "Home" doesn't sound exactly like >Allan's "Home", but it's close enough to make me happy. > When you say "revoiced" , do you mean that you moved the notes around to make it easier to play or did you change the notes?? As in , skip a note here and there........ You`ve given me hope here , pal.........:-) Yours , Thomas From ???@??? Mon Apr 20 22:56:56 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 20 12:34:32 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRMKf-0003MC-00; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:34:25 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 10:09:49 -0700 Message-ID: <000C21AA.----@wj.com> From: Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle) Subject: Re[4]: SV: holdsworthian delaze To: "Looper's Delight" , Mike.Biffle@wj.com, "T.W. Hartnett" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"iqCkkD.A.p9.h85O1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5156 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:34:25 -0700 X-UIDL: 6fc5e789d585dd4ee2d9abbf2ecd39aa >Paolo wrote... >There are signal splitters out there that will buffer the signal so that >the original signal level is maintained. I can't list specific products >due to memory failure, but, yes, you can split the signal into many lines >provided you have the right equipment. > Miko wrote >> Hi all... I use a Rane SM26 which is a 6 channel Splitter / Mixer >> depending on how you patch it. It was used in a lot of Bradshaw rack >> systems for just that purpose. It can also send - return (using two >> channels). It's great for getting gains balanced as well. I bought one for that, and found that it didn't provide independent buffering--if you were feeding three units in parallel, the volume controls were interactive. Travis Hartnett MB: I believe that the Uptown Flash, being a passive splitter mixer, is also going to have interaction as well. It's a snap to get the SM26 levels balanced, and while they are interactive, they seem to react most above the 3 o'clock setting (nearly maxed). If I keep things at three or lower, there's much less reaction. The unit is very transparent in all other respects. It helps me solve a lot of problems which normal aux bus mixers don't. IE splitting. I also use a GCX Expander audio loop switcher to switch a Boss GX-700 (input to fx loop); Pearce G2r amp; Fulltone Fulldrive 2; Prescription Electronics Experience; Z-Vex Fuzz Factory; and Big Muff as well as channel switch the Pearce amp with it. If a Switchblade falls out of the sky, I'll use it in an instant!!! 8-> One day we'll all have them and never have this discussion again! I'm thinking of adding the inputs of the LXP15 and GX-700 (I'll have to lose a fuzz to do that 8->) to two of the GCX loops to gain foot and midi control over which one I'm actually using. I'm also toying with the idea of something like a Subway Reverb Rocket, or V-twin rack preamp instead of the Pearce. That output is then split by the SM26 like this... 1. LXP15II input 2. GX700 FX input 3. JamMan input 4. Vortex input left 5. Vortex input right These are all pretty much set and forget input levels. I do occasionally reduce one input to zero to limit the dsp havoc taking place. It's usually no problem. Especially if I'm stereo compressing my mix, which I do about half the time. (At least peak limiting). If I didn't want to ever touch the SM26 settings I could still reach over and tweak the LXP15 input for instance. Right now, these inputs are all preceded by patch bay insert points so I can lift any unit to my Mackie 1202VLZ busses or wherever for flexibility. I started out trying to get *everything* on busses and wanted a lot of versatility, but finally seem to be settling into ... JamMan on aux bus 2, Alt 3/4 goes to Vortex inputs. That way I can just punch the Alt 3/4 button and that output is sent off to Vortex hell... (I really like that Alt 3/4 feature!) I can also Jam the Vortex or Vortex the Jammie quite easlily, whatever the whim. Too much information? You be the judge! 8-> Loop on... -Miko From ???@??? Mon Apr 20 10:51:41 1998 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: warren haynes Cc: Bcc: X-Attachments: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <353B4CDA.68D273C@Pirnie.com> References: I wasn't putting down or underestimating Warren Haynes, and I'm sort of baffled how you got that idea. Sorry that you did. My whole point in bringing it up is that I think he WOULD do something interesting with it, and I was trying to point out to folks here that the scope of people interested in looping is much wider and more diverse than you would gather from much of the conversation on LD. The ambient soundscaping thing is just one part of it, and I'm sure Warren would represent another. It's the same diversity theme I've been pushing since the list started a year and a half ago! Along that traditional guitar player vein, some other names that have been checking out looping devices include Peter Frampton and Tony Iommi..... kim >Kim Flint wrote: > >since he's just getting one of these things, I would guess it would be the >next album with the soundscaped-ambient-drum-and-bass-country-rock on it. > >In the words of the Amazing Human Torch ( of Fantastic Four fame) "FLAME ON!" ; } > >Do not underestimate the powers of Warren Haynes. Gov't Mule is not a country rock >band (nor are the Allman Brothers). A more appropriatte comparison would be to >live Cream. In that context, the idea of Warren using an echoplex may be quite >interesting. From ???@??? Mon Apr 20 22:56:48 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 20 11:23:53 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRLEJ-0001Pm-00; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:23:47 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <353B4CDA.68D273C@Pirnie.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 10:51:41 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: warren haynes Resent-Message-ID: <"K3175B.A.BSH.IB5O1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5153 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:23:47 -0700 X-UIDL: c3489cfe28099d48c684cde0549f8786 I wasn't putting down or underestimating Warren Haynes, and I'm sort of baffled how you got that idea. Sorry that you did. My whole point in bringing it up is that I think he WOULD do something interesting with it, and I was trying to point out to folks here that the scope of people interested in looping is much wider and more diverse than you would gather from much of the conversation on LD. The ambient soundscaping thing is just one part of it, and I'm sure Warren would represent another. It's the same diversity theme I've been pushing since the list started a year and a half ago! Along that traditional guitar player vein, some other names that have been checking out looping devices include Peter Frampton and Tony Iommi..... kim >Kim Flint wrote: > >since he's just getting one of these things, I would guess it would be the >next album with the soundscaped-ambient-drum-and-bass-country-rock on it. > >In the words of the Amazing Human Torch ( of Fantastic Four fame) "FLAME >ON!" ; } > >Do not underestimate the powers of Warren Haynes. Gov't Mule is not a >country rock >band (nor are the Allman Brothers). A more appropriatte comparison would >be to >live Cream. In that context, the idea of Warren using an echoplex may be >quite >interesting. ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Mon Apr 20 11:05:42 1998 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Assd. Holdsworthisms Cc: Bcc: X-Attachments: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980420145533.0df7b904@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> References: <199804162308.QAA11465@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> <01bd6969$bbd198c0$4a08bfa8@0QHC6SIA> >On the subject, Kim mentioned: >>Once upon a time there was a NAMM show where I had to work the whole damn >>show in the Oberheim booth. I even wore a suit and tie, making me an >>honest-to-god Suit for four days. > >Is that a problem? Surely the fact that you were wearing a suit doesn't >make you part of a conspiracy... I'm wearing a suit now, as an act of >rebellion againt the t-shirt and jeans slackers of the University; >expressing my individuality! And hey, Reeves Gabrels in Tin Machine looked >the _coolest_! I've been told I look pretty good in a suit, and I secretly enjoy wearing it! Makes me feel powerful, and the chicks dig it. And what's this conspiracy? Nobody asked me to join! Do I get to wear a suit all the time if I'm in the conspiracy? I don't think the suit was it. I believe that Allan decided not to get interested in looping or the echoplex entirely because of my haircut. At the time I foolishly believed he would look past such things and evaluate the echoplex and the idea of looping on it's own merits, and according to his own musical needs, which is what he appeared to be doing to me. But you holdsworth fans have now enlightened me.... kim From ???@??? Mon Apr 20 22:56:47 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 20 11:23:41 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRLE8-0001O9-00; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:23:36 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980420145533.0df7b904@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> References: <199804162308.QAA11465@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> <01bd6969$bbd198c0$4a08bfa8@0QHC6SIA> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:05:42 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Assd. Holdsworthisms Resent-Message-ID: <"U5HiKD.A.jSH.KB5O1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5154 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:23:36 -0700 X-UIDL: 8097a5b5458488e662ce199f9be86182 >On the subject, Kim mentioned: >>Once upon a time there was a NAMM show where I had to work the whole damn >>show in the Oberheim booth. I even wore a suit and tie, making me an >>honest-to-god Suit for four days. > >Is that a problem? Surely the fact that you were wearing a suit doesn't >make you part of a conspiracy... I'm wearing a suit now, as an act of >rebellion againt the t-shirt and jeans slackers of the University; >expressing my individuality! And hey, Reeves Gabrels in Tin Machine looked >the _coolest_! I've been told I look pretty good in a suit, and I secretly enjoy wearing it! Makes me feel powerful, and the chicks dig it. And what's this conspiracy? Nobody asked me to join! Do I get to wear a suit all the time if I'm in the conspiracy? I don't think the suit was it. I believe that Allan decided not to get interested in looping or the echoplex entirely because of my haircut. At the time I foolishly believed he would look past such things and evaluate the echoplex and the idea of looping on it's own merits, and according to his own musical needs, which is what he appeared to be doing to me. But you holdsworth fans have now enlightened me.... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Mon Apr 20 22:58:03 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 20 19:24:30 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRSjM-0000wg-00; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:24:20 -0700 Message-ID: <353B945A.AEAB713B@vtx.ch> Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 20:30:50 +0200 From: Claude Voit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: SV: Assd. Holdsworthisms References: <01bd6c77$dc1f78c0$fe004382@pentium-200> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-kVU8B.A.9NG.6-_O1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5163 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:24:20 -0700 X-UIDL: efa34c32fe1610f79a4c7c2b3d5c41e8 some more chords that hurt at our co-looper Tod Madson's site http://www.waste.org/~crash/ why does it hurt when I finger?? tendinitititis Claude -- Please correct the reply address by deleting this "----" Veuillez corriger mon adresse pour me rŽpondre en effaant a "----" From ???@??? Mon Apr 20 22:56:55 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 20 12:00:27 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRLnc-0006ps-00; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:00:16 -0700 Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 14:50:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Adam Levin To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: warren haynes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"zjaObC.A.DQF.-k5O1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5155 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:00:16 -0700 X-UIDL: c73cf954d7056dff45e1e8d787a87237 On Mon, 20 Apr 1998, Kim Flint wrote: > Along that traditional guitar player vein, some other names that have been > checking out looping devices include Peter Frampton and Tony Iommi..... I seem to recall seeing Iommi doing some loop work (laying down a backing bit and then soloing over it) in the early 80's with Black Sabbath. I believe he used this technique in those days for an extended solo intro to the band's eponymous song. He might have also done some looping for the ambient tracks on _Mob Rules_ and _Born Again_. I'll have to re-listen to these tonight when I get home. -Adam (whose original inspiration to pick up a guitar at age 11 was Tony Iommi) --- "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue, out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one becomes a Hearer." - Chandrakirti T h e D a r k A e t h e r P r o j e c t http://www.ari.net/prog/bands/dap/ From ???@??? Mon Apr 20 22:57:21 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 20 14:28:12 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRO6e-0003qq-00; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 14:28:04 -0700 From: "Woehni" To: Subject: pedals!! (was: splitters) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 23:01:38 +0200 Message-ID: <01bd6c9f$82a6a0c0$3c014382@pentium-200> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"LPdXrB.A.5d.wh7O1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5157 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 14:28:04 -0700 X-UIDL: d02c6ce7fe3519e5038f1adc39d820e0 Miko wrote: >I also use a GCX Expander audio loop switcher to switch a Boss GX-700 (input to >fx loop); Pearce G2r amp; Fulltone Fulldrive 2; Prescription Electronics >Experience; Z-Vex Fuzz Factory; and Big Muff as well as channel switch the >Pearce amp with it. If a Switchblade falls out of the sky, I'll use it in an >instant!!! 8-> One day we'll all have them and never have this discussion again! Wow , Mike !! Somehow I was under the impression you are an acoustic guitarist.....Boy was I wrong , you got the greatest set of pedals.......I`ve been able to locate ONE PE Experience here in norway , and the "wildest" setting (with all the knobs in) was broken.......have you had any problems with that?? Z-VEX , is that the company with the "crackle okay" pedal??? That sounds like a great idea , have you tried it?? I was wondering about all this splitterstuff.........Does the output-level of the guitar make a different on the noiselevel , seeing as the signal has lots of stuff to travel through??? Im wondering since my strat has some wiring problems and has very low output (wich I really dont want to fix , coz it sounds great! ;-) ) Thomas From ???@??? Mon Apr 20 10:06:28 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 20 06:14:24 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRGOt-0004kU-00; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 06:14:23 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980420145533.0df7b904@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> X-Sender: pycraft@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 14:55:33 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: "Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D." Subject: Assd. Holdsworthisms In-Reply-To: <199804162308.QAA11465@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> References: <01bd6969$bbd198c0$4a08bfa8@0QHC6SIA> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"BjPdBB.A.zKE.Tm0O1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5148 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 06:14:23 -0700 X-UIDL: 62a6445b9f31713ef2c9fb7976974eae Paolo: >The equipment he has made is mostly in support of his tone philosophy that >for his overdriven guitar sound he needs power tubes - preamp tube >distortion is not enough. ...although he's apparently using the new Yamaha digital preamp in his rig... On the big hands issue, I went through Uncommon Chord and revoiced the chords into handy intervals. OK, so my "Home" doesn't sound exactly like Allan's "Home", but it's close enough to make me happy. Regarding the Atavachron thing, I can see both sides of the argument, but have to say this sems that we (those who follow his music) seem to be on the receiving end of his legendary pickyness.. :( On the subject, Kim mentioned: >Once upon a time there was a NAMM show where I had to work the whole damn >show in the Oberheim booth. I even wore a suit and tie, making me an >honest-to-god Suit for four days. Is that a problem? Surely the fact that you were wearing a suit doesn't make you part of a conspiracy... I'm wearing a suit now, as an act of rebellion againt the t-shirt and jeans slackers of the University; expressing my individuality! And hey, Reeves Gabrels in Tin Machine looked the _coolest_! Michael From ???@??? Mon Apr 20 22:57:37 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 20 16:33:44 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRQ4B-0007Ka-00; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 16:33:39 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980420225823.006cde70@mail.dada.it> X-Sender: cavallo@mail.dada.it (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 00:58:23 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Leonardo Cavallo Subject: looping week Resent-Message-ID: <"6knp3C.A.paF.Mj9O1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5159 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 16:33:39 -0700 X-UIDL: f2fec94a21ea1c236167911926cf7075 Hi all just finished to perform a looping set for a multimedia theatre piece, live. The first of 2 nights. Some minor problems, but all gone well. The critics especially liked the interaction between music and videos. Tomorrow the second night. And last thursday I've played my first public loop show, in front of 1200 persons waiting for the main act of the night. I looped with a drummer/percussionist for 1/2 hour and it's been a success. Some ambient moments, some rhytmic things and a heavy sampled groove to complete the ending of the performace. I found the people very interested, more than I expected. if you wanna know more simply ask ciao leo From ???@??? Mon Apr 20 22:57:36 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 20 16:27:02 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRPxj-0006M7-00; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 16:26:59 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 16:12:49 -0700 Message-ID: <000C27DA.----@wj.com> From: Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle) Subject: Re: pedals!! (was: splitters) To: , "Woehni" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"qRAa7D.A.qrE.Te9O1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5158 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 16:26:59 -0700 X-UIDL: 295057f89b033c0103a4cd79137b5ae0 Miko wrote: >>I also use a GCX Expander audio loop switcher to switch a Boss GX-700 (input >>to fx loop); Pearce G2r amp; Fulltone Fulldrive 2; Prescription Electronics >>Experience; Z-Vex Fuzz Factory; and Big Muff as well as channel switch the >>Pearce amp with it. If a Switchblade falls out of the sky, I'll use it in an >>instant!!! 8-> One day we'll all have them and never have this discussion >>again! Thomas wrote... Wow , Mike !! Somehow I was under the impression you are an acoustic guitarist.....Boy was I wrong , you got the greatest set of pedals.......I`ve been able to locate ONE PE Experience here in norway , and the "wildest" setting (with all the knobs in) was broken.......have you had any problems with that?? Z-VEX , is that the company with the "crackle okay" pedal??? That sounds like a great idea , have you tried it?? MB: That IS the crackle ok pedal! 8-> I've been goofing with it and it's one of those pedals with a Jeckyll-Hyde personality. Each night is different. Some nights it's "Wow!!! and other nights, "Uhhh... is it me, or is that pedal trying to annoy me." I'll have to say that my Experience pedal was also *sort* of like that, but not nearly so extreme. It was very useful immediately in it's normal fuzz mode. Sort of like a great fuzz face with a *lot* of bottom end. Now I get fairly consistent results from it in all modes except Swell. There's only a wah and TC Sustainor (compressor) between it and the guitar, so the variables are pretty consistent. Be that as it may, that Swell mode has a mind of it's own. That's part of the fun of it. The octave mode is ok, but I've got a couple other places where I can get octaves going (among other things.) It's that Swell function, which seems to baffle most and pretend it's useless. It's pretty good for really sick amp sounds though as well as good sputtering insect stuff. In anwer to your broken Swell button question: In swell mode, if it's just beginning a note and seems to overly squelch of kill it, you can turn down the far right knob to get some sort of threshold attenution. Then you can turn down knob #3 (distortion), If all else fails, turn off your compressor and turn down the guitar volume. That usually gives some measure of, dare I say it?... Control. Hahahaha. Remember... The swell mode is just for fun. You'll never make a living off it! Listen to the pedal in plain old fuzz mode. I think it's one of the best. If your must have octave fuzz, by all means audition that mode also. I'd also check out the Fulltone Ultimate Octave and the Way Huge Piercing Moose as well. Thomas wrote... I was wondering about all this splitterstuff.........Does the output-level of the guitar make a different on the noiselevel , seeing as the signal has lots of stuff to travel through??? Im wondering since my strat has some wiring problems and has very low output (wich I really dont want to fix , coz it sounds great! ;-) ) MB: If you're not running your Strat into any preamp, you probably are coming into your dsp's or splitter a little or a lot low depending on your Strat. It's nice to have a preamp which allows you to tweak the input level so you're at the correct level to push it some without creating a ton of noise. It's also nice to have adjustable output so you can match that with your dsp's. I use EMG pickups, so I usually don't have low level problems... they're pretty hot, and buffered. My Pearce G2r has great input attenuation but no output attenuation, which I have to correct downstream to get it balanced properly. The GX-700 has a fair range of input attenuation also. And the loop send has it's level control as well. You don't want someone at the mixer at a gig or recording session saying, "Your levels are waayyyy too low..." and ending up with a bad signal to noise ratio for your sound. All the best... -Miko From ???@??? Mon Apr 20 22:57:57 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 20 18:35:37 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRQwU-0000GQ-00; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 17:29:46 -0700 Message-ID: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD02CA0BE@migarexch01.maritz.com> From: "Liebig, Steuart A." To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: pedals!! (was: splitters) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 18:59:02 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Resent-Message-ID: <"ri0JJB.A.dJG.QY-O1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5160 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 17:29:46 -0700 X-UIDL: e4cd4874edaf8a9dbfa55c3c222b065d > If your must have octave fuzz, by > all means audition that mode also. I'd also check out the Fulltone > Ultimate > Octave and the Way Huge Piercing Moose as well. > > Well, to put in my two cents. The Ultimate Octave pedal works really well. High octave is pretty strong-even on a bass (6-string in my case). Play double stops that aren't a 5th or a 4th and it's pretty radical, very enjoyable in my book. I'd say the poor man's ring mod., except the pedal is damn pricey (course you are getting a good fuzz sound plus the octave thing). I've also checked out the Prescription Electronics Facelift. If the octave on that is any indication of what the Experience's octave mode does . . . well let's just say that the Facelift is an interesting sounding pedal and does some cool things, but a pronounced octave really isn't one of 'em. Don't know the Way Huge stuff. On an almost comedic note, does anyone know anything about an Electro Harmonics Instant Replay or 2-Second Delay? (I guess that I just love dinosaurs.) stig From ???@??? Mon Apr 20 10:07:10 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 20 09:30:15 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRJSM-00076i-00; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 09:30:10 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980420180114.228f41da@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> X-Sender: pycraft@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 18:01:14 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: "Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D." Subject: Re: Yuppies and Loops, was Re: Looping show tonight, Friday in Portland, OR In-Reply-To: <19980411193443.18194.rocketmail@attach1.rocketmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"JmZhUD.A.yXF.JY3O1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5151 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 09:30:10 -0700 X-UIDL: d5ddcfd2ddb3130f80889214cc405ec0 various: >To give an idea of the setting for last nights >gig, NW 23rd in Portland, OR is yuppie central. >It's a shopping district, full of little fru-fru >shops and restraunts. Starbucks is a chain >coffee house and suffers from the sterile >interior of all such chains. Do you really want to be playing in a venue to which you're so obviously hostile? >1. Is it possible to play in a non-club setting >with a mixture of ambient, illbient and pop and >have an audience that will understand? Yes. I'm sure the people who attend such clubs do go places during the day. Just don't assume that includes everybody; is there a more outre coffe house in your area? Where the Kerouacs and Sartres of Oregon hang out? >3. To what extent should the setting determine >the performers actions? i.e. is it appropriate >to play chamber music in a rock club and >noise/performance art in the opera house? Yes, but it may not be acceptable to play chamber music to rock fans who don't like chamber music. >4. To what extent should the audience reactions >have an impact on what the performer performs? 100%. If you're there (rather than at home) it's because of your audience. If they don't like what you're playinbgf you may as well be at home. It's OK to challenge their perceptions if that's what they want. However, that's probably not what they want if they're there to drink coffee. >Personally, I'm about to foist myself and work on the Internet Cafe market. >I still feel like it's unorganized enough to be interesting, though still >perhaps necessary to pass the hat, unless everyone just loves the crap out >of you, in which case it's no longer just coffeehouses anymore, is it? I've been thinking of that too. From ???@??? Mon Apr 20 22:58:01 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 20 19:17:54 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRSd0-00001E-00; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:17:46 -0700 Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 18:31:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Stew Benedict Sender: Stew Benedict Reply-To: Stew Benedict Subject: DC-Loop show To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"1dL2c.A.0gF.D6_O1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5162 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:17:46 -0700 X-UIDL: 633a3581af3c7cbed9d9d247474c1e25 Well I managed to get out of the Rust belt for the weekend and saw B.L.U.E. and the DC-Loop show. They loop show was very fun, opening with Paul Mimlitsch, and his partner, looping Chapman Stick and drums/percussion. The drummer was wild, dropping handfuls of drumsticks, lots of chimes, bells etc. Paul was putting out some very nice meditative stuff on the Stick. Following up were Patrick Smith and his partner in Fingerpaint - talk about G.A.S., these guys had 2+ massive racks of stuff, both playing guitars and create a huge wall of sound, sound sculpture. The third act Siobahn Canty did some very nice mellow pieces, looping the female vocalist and some trumpet. I'm not much of a reviewer, but I did really enjoy the show and some of the work you guys did stimulated some ideas for me. Thanks Patrick for putting the show together, glad I wandered down from Baltimore to see it. Stew Benedict From ???@??? Mon Apr 20 22:58:04 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 20 19:29:52 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRSoT-0001gT-00; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:29:37 -0700 From: Fmplautus Message-ID: <33d87e04.353c0119@aol.com> Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 22:14:47 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: pedals!! (was: splitters) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 84 Resent-Message-ID: <"ik0WwD.A.3IH.tFAP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5164 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:29:38 -0700 X-UIDL: 3329c33ca066f5c22e474f87249bba4a Miko: Great posts on your pedals and setup. The LoOpdOctOrs love the Prescription Electronics Experience pedal...we bought it after hearing David Torn zone out with it on Tripping Over God and thinking how the hell is he making his guitar sound like it's on fire? One way to find the sweet spot for the swell, octave and sputters is to hook it into a Digitech Whammy pedal. You pitchshift up and down with the whammy and you can get MOLTO weirdness out of the Exprience pedal. We like going down two or three octaves into subwoofer range and then slamming the signal with the Experience...sounds like what could have happened after one of those "duck and cover" drills we used to do in grade school circa 1962. Loop that and then pass our the dramamine to the audience. Best, the LoOpdOctOrs From ???@??? Mon Apr 20 22:58:09 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 20 19:42:20 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRT0a-0003QQ-00; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:42:08 -0700 From: PJBMHB Message-ID: <8df60f08.353c043a@aol.com> Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 22:28:09 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: pedals!! (was: splitters) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Resent-Message-ID: <"jlIAsB.A.8kB.OSAP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5165 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:42:08 -0700 X-UIDL: 1770b3de086e28ab10ccbbcbd056eeda the presciption experience is a pretty whacky pedal. i like playing into a tube preamp and then into it. very crazy. i got it when the salesperson at the big, yucky, nationally-known music store said that it was really hard to control and only one "sales associate" knew how to demonstrate it!!! yee haw, that's for me!!! if music-jerks are afraid of a pedal you know it must have some potent mojo. =-) PJ From ???@??? Tue Apr 21 10:14:59 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 07:22:16 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRdw1-0007Ae-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 07:22:09 -0700 Reply-To: From: "Javier Miranda V." Sender: "J. Miranda V." To: Subject: RE: pedals!! (was: splitters) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 20:12:38 -0700 Message-ID: <000701bd6d30$6229b440$101d8ed1@electra> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD02CA0BE@migarexch01.maritz.com> Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"B5LId.A.dQG.3qKP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5174 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 07:22:09 -0700 X-UIDL: ab885ec00d0786719e37e95c36271eb2 I bought the Instant Replay the day it came out in New York (1981?) -- from Sam Ash, I think it was $975. I had been to the Electro Harmonix place on 48th Street and seen that cool dude, Ken, play it and wail really amazingly. So I was on the line that day. It was fine in the "fast mode," at 1 second of delay. It was a very crisp, clean, beautiful delay. But in the "slow mode," the quality fell through the floor. You got two seconds, but the delay sounded worse than telephone quality. I'd describe it nowadays as 8-bit monophonic. It also had an extra switch on the right side of the unit (oooh... extra switch) to lock in whatever was in memory at the time, so you could solo on top of it. As a looping device, it left much to be desired. Then I got a job at Electro Harmonix, like two years before they folded, and did quality control -- I played a lot with the 16-second digital delay then. I was able to buy one of those like a year after EH closed. That was sweet. You had 8 seconds of really clear crisp delay. I looped good for many years with that. But it would stopped working after a while. I used to know an engineer who would fix it, but he moved away and I haven't known anybody else who could fix it. Hey, if anybody knows someone in the Bay Area (San Francisco) who could fix it, let me know. I know it was built with lots of cheap Far Eastern parts, and it would die really easy if you stomped on it or shook it around. I still have the 16-sec unit, but the Instant Replay I had until around 1990 when I left it in a paper bag in my car outside my mother's apartment in New York after a gig. They broke in and took it. I've been cursing whoever has been playing it since then. I loved that delay unit. There -- just wanted to put in my two cents. -----Original Message----- From: Liebig, Steuart A. [mailto:LiebigSA@Maritz.com] Sent: Monday, April 20, 1998 4:59 PM To: 'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com' Subject: RE: pedals!! (was: splitters) On an almost comedic note, does anyone know anything about an Electro Harmonics Instant Replay or 2-Second Delay? (I guess that I just love dinosaurs.) stig From ???@??? Mon Apr 20 22:58:19 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 20 22:30:52 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRVdm-0006XG-00; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 22:30:46 -0700 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sprintmail.com From: "COLLINSCLAN" To: Subject: INFINITE GUITAR Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 01:12:30 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd6ce4$15aacba0$4b08bfa8@0QHC6SIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD6CC2.8E992BA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"iXcEMC.A.biE.XxCP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5166 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 22:30:46 -0700 X-UIDL: f6e0ef4353aa85ced9c15c2a957fb282
Does anyone know how I can modify my guitar to get the infinite sustain like Michael Brook has. I've found a couple of sites that mention it. But no REAL information or schematic. I'm attempting to do it myself. But i'm hoping that someone can save me the trouble.
Jeff Collins
 
From ???@??? Tue Apr 21 03:16:55 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 03:02:24 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRZsb-0002Nh-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 03:02:21 -0700 Reply-To: "Stefano Voulaz" From: "Stefano Voulaz" To: Subject: R: INFINITE GUITAR Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 11:59:17 +0200 Message-ID: <01bd6d0c$25935690$6902a8c0@voulaz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"V1qokD.A.kfB.z1GP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5170 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 03:02:21 -0700 X-UIDL: e8f38371295688a321c0d2eafd0d6017 I've been struggling on this for a while, finally at the Musikmesse in Frankfurt I bought a Fernandes guitar. I myself built a sustainer, but the toy from Fernandes is *damn* good (they use a very specialized driver pickup), so I left on my own. They have also a kit you can install on your own guitar. Another solution comes from Maniac Music, it's called Sustainiac. It's almost the same thing of Fernandes. And then, there's still the E-Bow! (handy, you can make some very strange sounds by kicking it very close to the pickups). Ciao! The Looping Uncle 8^)# FYI, this is the (long )mail I received from Maniac Music about Sustainiac: --------------------------------------------------------------------------- SUSTAINIAC is a registered trademark of Maniac Music, Inc. 8230 Meadowbrook Dr.; Indianapolis, IN 46240 For more detailed information, send us address, etc. Strat. is a registered trademark of Fender Musical Instruments SUSTAINIAC. GA-5 IN-GUITAR SUSTAINER The SUSTAINIAC . GA-5 is a big step forward for sustainers. This battery powered in-guitar sustainer provides infinite sustain of fundamentals and harmonics by sustaining string vibration. It is designed specifically for "Strat.-Type" guitars. The entire sustainer mounts to Strat.-style pickguards, and is designed to blend with the well-known appearance of Strat.-type guitars. (The GA-5 cannot be used on guitars having no pickguard. Attempting to remove the components from the circuit board to mount onto non-pickguard instruments will void the warranty.) Unlike previous sustainers, the Sustainiac GA-5 functions with a standard single coil bridge pickup and a standard single coil neck pickup. (Or, it will work fine if either or both bridge and neck pickups are humbuckers.) The string driver is located in the middle pickup position. This allows the bridge pickup and/or the neck pickup to be used while the sustainer is active. Our advances in string-driver technology make the Sustainiac GA-5 the only sustainer available with these capabilities. NOTE: Many people think that the Sustainiac is a SPECIAL PICKUP that "provides sustain". This is false. The Sustainiac is an entire SUSTAIN SYSTEM, consisting of several elements. Installation required, typically taking about 2 weeks. Read on: The following features are provided: Improved string driver design is compatible with single coil pickups, or other "Strat." pickup configurations. The string driver is located in the middle pickup position to allow the use of single coil neck and bridge pickups when sustainer is active. String driver is utilized as a middle pickup while the sustainer is not active. The GA-5 electronics section replaces the existing three potentiometers ("pots")of strat guitars. Your knobs are used on the pots. It mounts to the back of the pickguard. Authentic "Strat" tonality is maintained whether the sustainer is on or off, for all pickup selections. (When the sustainer is ON, only bridge and neck pickups are heard. However, special on-board equalization circuitry blends bridge/neck pickup with equalization to achieve good "2,3,4" switch position sounds!) Numerous power options available, including rechargeable battery pack and external power-supply/charger. Convenient push button switches provide easy operation. A "BOW" button can be pressed and sustain is achieved as long as the button is held down. When the "SUSTAIN" button is pressed, the GA-5 stays ON. The "HARMONICS' button in the "out" position causes normal string vibration. For the "in" position, the string vibrations break in to 2nd or 3rd harmonic vibration, for really SCREAMING solos! Convenient "DRIVE" knob replaces lower Strat-type TONE knob, and controls string vibration intensity. Power-on LED indicator is easily viewable from the normal playing position. Prices vary, depending on Power Options chosen. $259 (two 9-v batteries option); $289 (internal rechargeable battery, overnight charger CH-1); $494 (internal rechargeable battery pack, PSC-1 external power supply/charger, allows playing while charging). Other Power Options available, see full brochure. Installation charge $50-$65, depending on option selected. We send you a fully-tested GA-5 installed onto your or our pickguard, with your or our pickups. For more detailed information, request our brochure and price list. Just send us your address, etc. SUSTAINIAC. MODEL B ELECTRO-ACOUSTIC SUSTAINER This is the sustainer that got it all started for us, back in 1987. It is still a workhorse of the studio, and has been used to generate effortless, screaming natural feedback sustain on countless recordings, TV shows, ads, etc. A special magnet plate easily attaches to most guitar headstocks, which holds strongly to an egg-size (but "squarish" shaped) electro-acoustic transducer. The transducer easily "pops off" the magnet when not used. The transducer plugs into one of three jacks on the Sustainiamp (tm) floorbox. Your guitar cable plugs into a second jack on the floorbox, and your amplifier or effects chain into the third jack. For playing onstage, the transducer cable (13ft. standard length) can be attached to the guitar cable to keep it out of the way. The 13 ft. length is optimum when using with a 10 ft. guitar cord. A 23 ft. cable is available for $10 extra, or custom lengths for $10 extra plus $1 per foot. When the Sustainiamp (tm) is turned on by one of the two footpedals, a 50-watt amplifier inside the floorbox amplifies your pickup signal from the guitar cable, and sends this amplified (and specially processed) signal back to the transducer. The transducer then intensely vibrates the guitar headstock, which causes the strings to vibrate endlessly. (Kind of like blasting your guitar from a 100 watt Marshall stack from a distance of one inch!! Only you don't blast your ears in the process. Actually, the vibration intensity into the instrument from the Sustainiac. is actually much greater than you can obtain in front of the stack.) The third jack is there to send the unaltered guitar pickup signal on its way to your amp or other effects. The Model B Sustainiamp (tm) has TWO OPERATIONAL MODES: (1) You can just hold down one pedal at a time for "momentary" sustain during accents. Depending on which pedal you hit, different string vibration harmonics are accented. (2) By hitting both pedals simultaneously (which is easy to do with a small foot-tap, because the two large pedals are located close together), you turn the Sustainiamp ON and OFF for continuous sustain. When ON, by next tapping either pedal, you can make the Sustainiamp stay in either of the two harmonic modes, indicated by a green or red LED being on. With these controls, you can hold a screaming note, and change the string vibration harmonics at will. A very unique, powerful effect! Also, the Model B Sustainiamp (tm) has three knobs for controlling (1) String vibration intensity; (2) Auto-Sense (automatically choosing optimum gain level); (3) Harmonic Enhance, for adjusting string vibration harmonic content. The SUSTAINIAC. MODEL B sustainer sells for $279, postage paid if within continental USA and prepaid. Postage extra for COD and other countries. For custom transducer cable lengths, see above. Shipping weight approx. 11 lbs. From ???@??? Tue Apr 21 10:14:24 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 03:22:12 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRaBl-0005U2-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 03:22:09 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 03:15:24 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: just a casual reminder.... Resent-Message-ID: <"BeRov.A.HgE.6IHP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5171 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 03:22:09 -0700 X-UIDL: 94352fe04317ad7904f9616f69a85956 just a casual reminder.... ...that this is LOOPER'S Delight, not Guitar Player's Delight..... Now, some of you six-string wunderkinds may find this completely shocking, but a lot of people here don't even play guitar! I know it's hard to believe, but it's true! Guess how interested they are in long discussions about guitar playing that have no looping content whatsoever? All the blathering about fuzz pedals and difficult chord voicings by non-looping guitarists is starting bore people right off the list.... And here's another shocker: many of the people who do play guitar (i.e. me) also don't come here to talk about guitar! Remember that this is not a moderated list. It is up to you to be responsible about remaining on topic and not wasting bandwidth on long off-topic discussions that have nothing to do with looping. That's how we maintain a nice, civilized, and diverse group, and how we keep things interesting for everybody most of the time. thanks, kim (and why is it always the guitar players anyway? wait, no don't answer that :-) ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Apr 21 10:14:35 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 05:12:58 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRbuw-0006HG-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 05:12:54 -0700 Message-ID: <047301bd6d1e$4678a4c0$c2b854ce@mark.asisoftware.com> From: Mark@asisoftware.com (Mark Kata) To: "Loopers Delight" Subject: Carvin Guitars Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 08:09:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"Bra_qC.A.oPF.fwIP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5172 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 05:12:54 -0700 X-UIDL: 1365085d2ee6217b8eb84e322ac8f580 Michael wrote: >>i shiver at the thought! i am >>hot for a carvin ae 185. this is an acoustic-electric, has 2 lines out, one >>acoustic the other elec. this alone makes my mind spin. i have never seen >>nor played a carvin in real life or in any life for that matter. i think there are >>one or two guitarist in this group so maybe you all could direct me in my >>choice. I have a Carvin DC127T that I bought in 1995. It is almost as good as a Paul Reed Smith Custom, but at a 1/3 of the price. My Carvin has a maple neck, ebony fingerboard, alder body, two humbuckers with coil tap switches, locking tuning machines and a non-locking Wilkinson whammy bar. It is, far and away, my favorite guitar for looping because: - it's extremely easy to play - it has a "springy" acoustic quality--even with heavily distorted amp and fuzztone settings - it's lightweight and very comfortable to hold - it has a wide tonal palatte because of its coil tap switches - it stays in tune - it sustains I read Carvin catalogs for 25 years before I finally took the plunge and bought the DC127T. It was worth every cent. Mark Kata Mark@asisoftware.com From ???@??? Tue Apr 21 10:14:36 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 05:20:16 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRc1x-0007Gp-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 05:20:09 -0700 From: PJBMHB Message-ID: Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 08:14:31 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Carvin Guitars (LOOPING CONTENT....nada!) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Resent-Message-ID: <"BJ-VmC.A.XOG.c3IP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5173 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 05:20:09 -0700 X-UIDL: 7f1010ed76814888b88f546ba0c928ec so much for the guitarists not dominating the chat content. he he =-PJ From ???@??? Wed Apr 22 00:03:40 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 15:16:13 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRlKg-00052y-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 15:16:06 -0700 Message-ID: <353CC22B.9307974A@nyfac.com> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:58:36 +0100 From: tdbajus Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: just a casual reminder.... References: <000C3218.----@wj.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"N5NrqB.A.jDD.TeRP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5188 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 15:16:06 -0700 X-UIDL: f247550b5928307fb63a3b5cda341215 Mike Biffle wrote: > >just a casual reminder.... > >...that this is LOOPER'S Delight, not Guitar Player's Delight..... > > >Now, some of you six-string wunderkinds may find this completely shocking, > >but a lot of people here don't even play guitar! I know it's hard to > >believe, but it's true! Guess how interested they are in long discussions > >about guitar playing that have no looping content whatsoever? I though I ought to jump out here for old Mike's support here... Not that this has ever happened, but if there was ever a thread that I thought was interminably dull (inconceivable, but one must accept the remote possibility :-) , I just delete the message. I've thought about this, and while my gear geekery exceeds that of all but a few of my friends, we all seem to be pretty much tied. In fact, sometimes I feel like the Luddite of the group (tube amp, twenty-five year old pedals, 30+ year old guitar, and a JamMan). When the discussions of the various software programs for sequencing, editing, time-stretching, etc come along, I just erase them, after browsing through them. Please don't take my pedal reviews away! And I agree that this is the most stimulating list that I belong to, in many ways, despite the fact that our musical tastes seem to differ. What I like about the discussions we have here is that most of us seem to be a group that challenges their current aestetics. Not to mention we seem to be an exceedingly funny bunch as well. Trevor From ???@??? Wed Apr 22 00:03:31 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 14:03:48 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRkCe-0002th-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 14:03:44 -0700 Message-ID: <353CC2F5.F7A7481A@nyfac.com> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:01:57 +0100 From: tdbajus Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: just a casual reminder.... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"REirAB.A.YOC.ljQP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5187 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 14:03:44 -0700 X-UIDL: fa411948f74ae04d1e6a5f3cf145c114 Fmplautus wrote: > Um, Kim...the LoOpdOctOrs don't hang fuzz pedals just on guitars. > > And it's our Keyboardist who is a raving, mad gonzo over Holdsworth...maybe > because he can do the @#($#$*%)( #@ fingerings... > > Best, > the LoOpdOctOrs Few things sound cooler than a snare sample run through a Rat pedal and then a ring modulator. A friend of mine did it for years. I stole it from him, and then, near as I can figure, Eno stole it from me...... tdb From ???@??? Wed Apr 22 00:03:56 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 16:29:41 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRmTh-0007dq-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:29:29 -0700 Message-ID: <353CC4BB.762@pop.interport.net> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:09:32 +0000 From: John + Diane Parada Reply-To: jparada@changenow.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: some feedback please!! References: <11583d79.353a25b6@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ebHkCB.A.8iF.-jSP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5194 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:29:29 -0700 X-UIDL: f7883b321fab5cb84e064591b8e6e2aa I own a carvin ae185 and I can haonestly say it is the nicest gtr I have ever played. It is gorgeous, light, and comfortable. Neck cant be better. The acoustic sound is sweet. And I opted for a hot pickup in the bridge position which makes me sound like ted nugent when I want to wang dang. You left out the panning knob. Mine is koa and mahoghany. When you play it loud you can feel it vibrate. It's awesome. see me with mine at my website.They even agreed not to put the carvin name on mine, because its that cool. go to my site and look around, I'm not sure where but you will see a photot of me hugging a gtr. thats it. oh by the way I opted for no dots too , and a reverse headstock came out to 11 and change but I'll tell you when you first smell it right out of the case your mind will be made up.go to and respond to me about any questions. I've been waiting for a discusion about carvin. http://www.changenow.com From ???@??? Tue Apr 21 10:15:18 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 09:52:41 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRgHa-0006Ji-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 09:52:34 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 09:36:09 -0700 Message-ID: <000C318A.----@wj.com> From: Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle) Subject: Re[2]: pedals!! (was: splitters) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, "Michael P. Hughes; Ph.D." Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"BkRkVC.A.QlE.3xMP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5175 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 09:52:34 -0700 X-UIDL: 54ec113a88f66c8f77cbfaa55395a684 Michael P. wrote... >On the subject of pedaqls, does anyone find that FX pedals can just >become a gimmick, and that the audience tire of hearing "there's that >Ring Modulator again" on, say, a 2-hour Ambient looping set? >Michael I've got hours of jam tapes from "The Lunar Asylum" (what we are when we get together.) And I find that, sure, there are often times redundant useages of various pet effects and tones, which tend to be the favorite of the month. But we're all attracted to these sounds for *some* reason. So we use them and find their context and/or move on. That said, I find that what started out as an alienating sound, can sometimes become understood in a different context and become a very useful and workable sound. I've also been amused at other ensemble's reactions to my use of those tones which I've grown comfortable with. Ultimately you have to choose something that works with the ensemble and material you're performing. Michael P. said... >>> Z-VEX , is that the company with the "crackle okay" pedal??? That >>>sounds like a great idea , have you tried it?? I said... >> That IS the crackle ok pedal! >No, the Crackle Okay control if on the tastefully named "Super Hard-On" pedal. MB: I went home last night thinking Fuzz Factory... Crackle OK, Crackle OK. Mostly due to listening to it rather that looking at the darn knobs and their titles. 8-> Well I started playing and looking at the knobs on my FF and THERE IS NO 'CRACKLE OK' knob. Oops! It's personality is pretty Crackle OK though. Here's the knob line up from right to left, which roughly follows the signal path I believe. This review is based on my highly subjective experience of last night's playing. STAB: Stability... Sort of a flabbiness / spikiness knob DRIVE: With compression down this *sort of* works like a normal fuzz drive knob. Sort of meaning that at around 4 O'clock it goes from a grainy toothy sounding fuzz, (It's dominant characteristic) to much fatter sound. (At this point the Gate setting has to be increased for silence between notes.) COMP: Compression. Seems to be second most straightforward knob on the box. Still experimenting. (Cranking knobs in the dark.) GATE: Gating feature which is highly mandatory for any semblance of silence between notes. (Threshold position varies depending on drive, comp and stab settings.) The other *sound* after muting a note with gate turned down is oscillation of some sort which IS tunable. You can control the actual note with the Stab and Drive controls before you open the Gate and begin oscillating... then you can jack up the Stab and Drive and make it sound like radio static. Oh Boy... (I will use this. How much remains to be seen.) VOLUME: Ouput level. Wow this one is simple. Notes: All controls seem *very* reactive to one another. Possibly excepting the Volume knob, although the jury isn't in on that one. There is NO tone control knob. You have to either love this pedal or hate it on it's own terms. When A/B'ed with the PE Experience the Fuzz Factory seems to be lacking severly in bottom end. That was my initial impression of the pedal as well, but like I said in an earlier post... Each time I've used it, it has been a very different experience. This a fun part of using the fuzz factory as long as you're not looking for cover song accuracy! I have no such needs, so I'm still waiting to become a true believer. 8-> I've used it on separate 5 evenings and the impression is: Twice I've felt that this baby was fat and singing in it's own quirky way. The other times I've been a little too far into the insect buzz zone, which the Experience does quite well with the Swell button (which you can turn off! ;-)) In all fairness, the output level of the pedal into my Pearce amp affects the overall fatness quite a lot as well, so there's more to tweak than just the fuzz. Last night was pretty good. Anyway this is probably off topic for the list, but I know most of us are knob twisters, and these are GOOD knobs to twist! Cheers, -Miko From ???@??? Tue Apr 21 10:36:41 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 10:17:00 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net ([207.171.193.21] helo=falcon.slip.net) by ferret.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) id 0yRgex-000259-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 10:16:43 -0700 Received: from [204.30.16.2] (helo=gatekeeper.wj.com) by falcon.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) id 0yRgcQ-0004e5-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 10:14:35 -0700 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.wj.com (8.8.8/8.8.6) id KAA26969; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 10:14:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ccsmtp.wj.com(144.172.15.213) by gatekeeper.wj.com via smap (V2.0) id xma026967; Tue, 21 Apr 98 10:13:53 -0700 Received: from ccMail by ccsmtp.wj.com (IMA Internet Exchange 2.11 Enterprise) id 000C3218; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 10:16:11 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 10:08:40 -0700 Message-ID: <000C3218.----@wj.com> From: Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle) Subject: Re: just a casual reminder.... To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, Kim Flint Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part X-UIDL: b13895bfb5ae5451f70f8a44db5475e5 >just a casual reminder.... >...that this is LOOPER'S Delight, not Guitar Player's Delight..... >Now, some of you six-string wunderkinds may find this completely shocking, >but a lot of people here don't even play guitar! I know it's hard to >believe, but it's true! Guess how interested they are in long discussions >about guitar playing that have no looping content whatsoever? >All the blathering about fuzz pedals and difficult chord voicings by >non-looping guitarists is starting bore people right off the list.... Yes, Holdsworth is a non-looping guitarist. His music and chord voicings seem to interest many of us here. Are you getting private email complaints about discussions taking place? I thought that the subject line above (ie. pedals or hard chords) was a great way to decide if you want to wade through a thread's content? It does seem apparent that we *LOOPING GUITARISTS* seem interested in what we're talking about to each other via this list. That's how we met and it seems to be a continuing location for further discussions. If for instance someone speaks up about the sound source they loop, should that go offline? My fuzzes are an essential part of my sound in many instances. People had questions about them. I certainly won't talk forever about my 3 or 4 fuzzboxes. >And here's another shocker: many of the people who do play guitar (i.e. me) >also don't come here to talk about guitar! See that subject line Kim... Your sarcasm is well noted. I'll restrain my enthusiam for my avocation next time. I might have to include the OB Kim disclaimers which you commented on last time I did it. >Remember that this is not a moderated list. It is up to you to be >responsible about remaining on topic and not wasting bandwidth on long >off-topic discussions that have nothing to do with looping. That's how we >maintain a nice, civilized, and diverse group, and how we keep things >interesting for everybody most of the time. Respectfully... Go check out the profiles at the site, Kim... they reflect a highly guitar biased readership. If your list has taken a direction you don't like, maybe you should moderate it. I'd hate to see that happen though. This is one of the best lists I've ever been involved in. Is this in spite of all the discussions involving guitarists or because of it? >thanks, >kim (and why is it always the guitar players anyway? wait, no don't answer that :-) ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Apr 21 10:36:45 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 10:32:05 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRgtd-0004HX-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 10:31:53 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 10:08:40 -0700 Message-ID: <000C3218.----@wj.com> From: Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle) Subject: Re: just a casual reminder.... To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, Kim Flint Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"OtBMSD.A.8-B.GSNP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5176 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 10:31:53 -0700 X-UIDL: fd9567e27c5a5e64b5ac2e0fbf2526bd >just a casual reminder.... >...that this is LOOPER'S Delight, not Guitar Player's Delight..... >Now, some of you six-string wunderkinds may find this completely shocking, >but a lot of people here don't even play guitar! I know it's hard to >believe, but it's true! Guess how interested they are in long discussions >about guitar playing that have no looping content whatsoever? >All the blathering about fuzz pedals and difficult chord voicings by >non-looping guitarists is starting bore people right off the list.... Yes, Holdsworth is a non-looping guitarist. His music and chord voicings seem to interest many of us here. Are you getting private email complaints about discussions taking place? I thought that the subject line above (ie. pedals or hard chords) was a great way to decide if you want to wade through a thread's content? It does seem apparent that we *LOOPING GUITARISTS* seem interested in what we're talking about to each other via this list. That's how we met and it seems to be a continuing location for further discussions. If for instance someone speaks up about the sound source they loop, should that go offline? My fuzzes are an essential part of my sound in many instances. People had questions about them. I certainly won't talk forever about my 3 or 4 fuzzboxes. >And here's another shocker: many of the people who do play guitar (i.e. me) >also don't come here to talk about guitar! See that subject line Kim... Your sarcasm is well noted. I'll restrain my enthusiam for my avocation next time. I might have to include the OB Kim disclaimers which you commented on last time I did it. >Remember that this is not a moderated list. It is up to you to be >responsible about remaining on topic and not wasting bandwidth on long >off-topic discussions that have nothing to do with looping. That's how we >maintain a nice, civilized, and diverse group, and how we keep things >interesting for everybody most of the time. Respectfully... Go check out the profiles at the site, Kim... they reflect a highly guitar biased readership. If your list has taken a direction you don't like, maybe you should moderate it. I'd hate to see that happen though. This is one of the best lists I've ever been involved in. Is this in spite of all the discussions involving guitarists or because of it? >thanks, >kim (and why is it always the guitar players anyway? wait, no don't answer that :-) ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Apr 21 10:36:47 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 10:35:14 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRgwh-0004iy-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 10:35:03 -0700 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sprintmail.com From: "COLLINSCLAN" To: Subject: Re: INFINITE GUITAR Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 13:13:02 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd6d48$bde4c000$7708bfa8@0QHC6SIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"Fowia.A.XXC.nUNP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5178 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 10:35:03 -0700 X-UIDL: e7a02d148e3da7073e34b49a423b6447 Mike, I've thought about the sustainer from fernandes and i really don't think I want to spend 450.00 to buy it... then it's gotta be installed. I do believe i'm going to take on your experiment. I can get my father to help with the Re-Winding. Thanks to those who like to help others in their search for their ultimate tone. Jeff Collins By the way i just did a piece for solo electric razor guitar that is around forty minutes long and has some serious chord modulation. If anyone would care to take on the challenge of listening to it...let me know collinsclan@sprintmail.com -----Original Message----- From: Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D. To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Tuesday, April 21, 1998 4:52 AM Subject: Re: INFINITE GUITAR >>Does anyone know how I can modify my guitar to get the infinite sustain >like >Michael Brook has. I've found a couple of sites that mention it. But >no REAL >information or schematic. I'm attempting to do it myself. But i'm >hoping that >someone can save me the trouble. > >We had a big debate on this last year. The way to do it seems to be: > >1. get your neck pickup rewired for low impedance (I reckon maybe 1/3 of >the turns, 3x thickness, though I haven't tried it). Build a small >amplifier which takes the signal from your middle pickup to drive the >amplifier. The string generates a current in the p/u, which drives the >transducer, which drives the string. Magic. I've one of these half-built >mysefl, but can't afford the pickup rewiring. > >2. Buy a Fernandez Sustainer. > >No 2 seems the preferred option.... > > > From ???@??? Tue Apr 21 10:36:46 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 10:33:35 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRgv6-0004Ut-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 10:33:24 -0700 Sender: randy@cdac.com Message-ID: <353CD4D0.EFC49810@cdac.com> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 10:18:08 -0700 From: Randy Reichenbach Organization: Cascade Design Automation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: INFINITE GUITAR References: <01bd6ce4$15aacba0$4b08bfa8@0QHC6SIA> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"idJBhD.A.rNC.nTNP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5177 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 10:33:24 -0700 X-UIDL: 258acf334bba567869ece79c92a1cb65 I'm glad you asked that question, cuz I've wondered for years. I found a decent description of both the infinite guitar and the Fernandez Sustainer at: http://www.columbia.edu/~co61/brook_infinite.html Also Fernandez is on the web at: http://fernandesguitars.com/ Sorry to prolong the guitarists' barrage. > COLLINSCLAN wrote: > > Does anyone know how I can modify my guitar to get the infinite > sustain like Michael Brook has. I've found a couple of sites that > mention it. But no REAL information or schematic. I'm attempting to do > it myself. But i'm hoping that someone can save me the trouble. > Jeff Collins > collinsclan@sprintmail.com > -- Peace ... =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ====== = Randy Reichenbach randy@cdac.com = // || \\ =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= || || || = Physical Design Engineer (VLSI-CAD) = || //\\ || = Cascade Design Automation = \\//__\\// = 3650 131st Ave SE, Suite 650 = `------' = Bellevue, Washington 98006 = = Tel: 425.643.0200 Fax: 425.649.7600 = ... Get some! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From ???@??? Tue Apr 21 02:48:17 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 01:47:27 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRYi1-0006H0-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 01:47:21 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980421102500.0c7fe514@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> X-Sender: pycraft@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 10:25:00 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: "Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D." Subject: Re: SV: Assd. Holdsworthisms In-Reply-To: <01bd6c77$dc1f78c0$fe004382@pentium-200> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"GIwgZ.A.NEF.FvFP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5167 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 01:47:21 -0700 X-UIDL: f0b9d87f9fe225333d83e9e91da24698 At 06:17 PM 4/20/98 +0200, you wrote: >> >>On the big hands issue, I went through Uncommon Chord and revoiced the >>chords into handy intervals. OK, so my "Home" doesn't sound exactly like >>Allan's "Home", but it's close enough to make me happy. >> > > > When you say "revoiced" , do you mean that you moved the notes around to make >it easier to play or did you change the notes?? As in , skip a note here and >there........ Yup - take the whole chord shape and start playing 2 or 3 notes from it. Find which are most important to the chord in the context of the piece (ie which you can drop for it to still sound like "home"). Once you've found them, see if there's a way to move them so that they're close together. I play 90% intervals (ie 2 notes), it sounds 70% right (so 30% must be my individual style, right? :) ) and my hands still work afterwards! AND you get to tell everybody to can play Holdsworth tunes! Kim wandered RIGHT off topic: >I've been told I look pretty good in a suit, and I secretly enjoy wearing >it! Makes me feel powerful, and the chicks dig it. And what's this >conspiracy? Nobody asked me to join! Do I get to wear a suit all the time >if I'm in the conspiracy? Yup. You get to dance like Will Smith too. > I don't think the suit was it. I believe that Allan decided not to get > interested in looping or the echoplex entirely because of my haircut. Hey, haircuts are important. I can find no other explanation for Van Halen's recent fall from grace... Michael From ???@??? Wed Apr 22 00:03:06 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 10:43:55 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRh5B-0005xG-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 10:43:49 -0700 Message-ID: <056001bd6d4b$0de61840$c2b854ce@mark.asisoftware.com> From: Mark@asisoftware.com (Mark Kata) To: "Loopers Delight" Subject: Multiple Loopers Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 13:29:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"dF55YD.A.dnD.SdNP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5179 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 10:43:49 -0700 X-UIDL: e001f043327af703c0701bdc9b61719a Several members of Loopers-Delight use two or more loopers to create music. I've tried using two loopers and an AB box to switch from one to the other. However, as the density of the loops increases, it becomes more difficult for me to remember which looper I added a specific musical phrase. What techniques can you suggest for this? And what techniques are especially useful when using multiple loopers? Thanks, Mark Kata Mark@asisoftware.com From ???@??? Tue Apr 21 02:48:19 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 01:56:20 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRYqc-0007ZE-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 01:56:14 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980421103239.0c7fc138@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> X-Sender: pycraft@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 10:32:39 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: "Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D." Subject: Re: INFINITE GUITAR In-Reply-To: <01bd6ce4$15aacba0$4b08bfa8@0QHC6SIA> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Xtx4BB.A.xIG.C2FP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5168 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 01:56:14 -0700 X-UIDL: 1c34c778bf4e6bb467fd1e76ce67aee7 >Does anyone know how I can modify my guitar to get the infinite sustain like >Michael Brook has. I've found a couple of sites that mention it. But no REAL >information or schematic. I'm attempting to do it myself. But i'm hoping that >someone can save me the trouble. We had a big debate on this last year. The way to do it seems to be: 1. get your neck pickup rewired for low impedance (I reckon maybe 1/3 of the turns, 3x thickness, though I haven't tried it). Build a small amplifier which takes the signal from your middle pickup to drive the amplifier. The string generates a current in the p/u, which drives the transducer, which drives the string. Magic. I've one of these half-built mysefl, but can't afford the pickup rewiring. 2. Buy a Fernandez Sustainer. No 2 seems the preferred option.... From ???@??? Tue Apr 21 02:48:20 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 01:58:12 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRYsS-00002r-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 01:58:08 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980421103450.256fbb50@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> X-Sender: pycraft@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 10:34:50 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: "Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D." Subject: Re: pedals!! (was: splitters) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"q7ciQD.A.BdG.I4FP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5169 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 01:58:08 -0700 X-UIDL: 9e9a5709f1e8bda3e1b6fa5f5da6663f >> Z-VEX , is that the company with the "crackle okay" pedal??? That sounds >> like a great idea , have you tried it?? > That IS the crackle ok pedal! No, the Crackle Okay control if on the tastefully named "Super Hard-On" pedal. On the subject of pedaqls, does anyone find that FX pedals can just become a gimmick, and that the audience tire of hearing "there's that Ring Modulator again" on, say, a 2-hour Ambient looping set? Michael From ???@??? Wed Apr 22 00:03:30 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 13:58:29 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRk7V-00025G-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 13:58:25 -0700 From: Fmplautus Message-ID: Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 14:27:44 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: just a casual reminder.... Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 84 Resent-Message-ID: <"UD4y_B.A.Cf.YXQP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5186 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 13:58:25 -0700 X-UIDL: 9f71116ebb03fe0ac2f46ea08553c8de Um, Kim...the LoOpdOctOrs don't hang fuzz pedals just on guitars. And it's our Keyboardist who is a raving, mad gonzo over Holdsworth...maybe because he can do the @#($#$*%)( #@ fingerings... Best, the LoOpdOctOrs From ???@??? Wed Apr 22 00:03:21 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 13:09:05 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRjLZ-0002t6-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 13:08:53 -0700 Sender: r_t_cummings@csi.com Message-ID: <353CF5A4.176AAC6D@csi.com> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:38:13 +0200 From: Cummings X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: loopers Subject: Euroloopers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"c8swV.A.dDB.YnPP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5181 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 13:08:53 -0700 X-UIDL: 20b985cc0f79b556110bec7e58382a3f Hello Euroloopers, Having just completed a successful and very fun mini-tour of Switzerland (Duedingen, Winterthur) and Austria (Feldkirch), our booking agency is planning a more extensive tour for our group (ROPE) this fall (Sept./Oct.). My question is this: does anyone know of some other good locations in these countries (also: France, Italy [Leo], Netherlands, Scandinavia [Thomas])? Our info and CD can be sent on request. Thanks in advance! It would be great to meet some of you - we could also return the favor by setting up gigs here in Berlin. BTW, our last CD "ROPE HOTEL" was reviewed rather positively in the last Wire (April) - whatever that means! They'll probably hate us next time .. ;-) Our CD is available from Geist Records which is being distributed by Indigo. Bye, Rob From ???@??? Wed Apr 22 00:03:21 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 13:05:33 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRjIE-0002P6-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 13:05:26 -0700 From: ENAT21213 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 15:51:27 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: EBN looking to fill a couple dates Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"FsDbBD.A.Ok.AkPP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5180 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 13:05:26 -0700 X-UIDL: 65f18d81c863bf8c05e72d34cfd11958 hello everyone, my band electric bird noise (loop and layered cinematic instrumental rock) is trying to fill a couple dates for are upcoming northeastern trek. june 17th 18th and 20th are what we need in the washington d.c., baltimore or philadelphia region.let me know if you can help or have any ideas? we have a tape and promo pack if needed. we also have a sound clip on the 3rd loopers cd project web page.the clip is under my name brian mckenzie. take care, brian From ???@??? Wed Apr 22 00:03:23 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 13:24:15 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRjaN-00052V-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 13:24:11 -0700 From: "Woehni" To: Subject: re:INFINITE GUITAR Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:07:17 +0200 Message-ID: <01bd6d61$155e5180$c4024382@pentium-200> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"FBG-5D.A.g-C.L1PP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5182 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 13:24:11 -0700 X-UIDL: ebe30b69b550eeb0e69eaed5a4063795 Muchael wrote: >2. Buy a Fernandez Sustainer. > >No 2 seems the preferred option.... > I have tested two Fernadez guitars that had the Sustainer-function.....I didnt have much luck with it. The problem I found was that the sustained sound was very low volumed. This might have something to do with my well-documented "slow-techinitis". Seeing as the guitar had a switch with 3 options I got confused and nervous. I started flipping it around to see what happened and it dint work,,,,,,, 1. does the guitar work as its advertised to? (infinite sustain) 2. is it just me? no 2 seems the most likely solution......:-) Thomas From ???@??? Wed Apr 22 00:03:24 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 13:26:28 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRjcS-0005LG-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 13:26:20 -0700 From: "Woehni" To: Subject: SV: pedals!! (was: splitters) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:10:15 +0200 Message-ID: <01bd6d61$7f894600$c4024382@pentium-200> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"zQf-gB.A.sSD.a3PP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5183 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 13:26:20 -0700 X-UIDL: 798bbdf05be715e61e5b59d52ae6842a > >On the subject of pedaqls, does anyone find that FX pedals can just become >a gimmick, and that the audience tire of hearing "there's that Ring >Modulator again" on, say, a 2-hour Ambient looping set? > I think most listeners (even us guitarists) don`t have a clue what the music is played through Though most guys like to think they do.). Furthermore , I dont think ppl care. Thats why it`s such a hoot to blaze through a Rat when soloing over that Leonard Cohen tune: I actually get away with it.... :-) Thomas From ???@??? Wed Apr 22 00:03:26 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 13:34:35 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRjkK-0006V8-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 13:34:28 -0700 From: "Woehni" To: Subject: SV: just a casual reminder.... Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:19:45 +0200 Message-ID: <01bd6d62$d343cb20$c4024382@pentium-200> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"R6WL2B.A.ZhE.PAQP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5184 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 13:34:28 -0700 X-UIDL: ca517e981511baf1f4cc75ebf2ae452b >...that this is LOOPER'S Delight, not Guitar Player's Delight..... > Sorry `bout that..........I`m just getting back at ya for that Male/female "my girlfriend doesnt like Fripp" thread...........:-) Thomas From ???@??? Wed Apr 22 00:03:28 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 13:48:08 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRjxJ-0000aw-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 13:47:53 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980421203351.00af60e4@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 13:33:51 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Multiple Loopers Resent-Message-ID: <"6HRHy.A.YeG.COQP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5185 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 13:47:53 -0700 X-UIDL: 8e9c7d927ace0a964d9f96301786ad90 At 01:29 PM 4/21/98 -0400, Mark Kata wrote: >Several members of Loopers-Delight use two or more loopers to create music. > >I've tried using two loopers and an AB box to switch from one to the other. >However, as the density of the loops increases, it becomes more difficult >for me to remember which looper I added a specific musical phrase. > >What techniques can you suggest for this? And what techniques are >especially useful when using multiple loopers? I usually use different loopers for different purposes, so it's pretty clear which one is doing what. for example, I've been experimenting a bit with this setup: I have 2 echoplexes in my guitar rack for stereo loops, which pretty much act like a single unit. Another echoplex is on the aux send of a mixer that is primarily devoted to percussion, returning to one of the mixer inputs. Other inputs of the mixer are devoted to the multiple outs of drum machines. the sequences from the drum machine are loops too, and by taking advantage of the four outs I effectively have five different percussion loops on the mixer inputs. (another input is for live percussion playing through drum triggers, which I don't do much of since I'm still a pretty lousy percussionist.) By controlling the aux mix I can grab different snippets of percussion in the echoplex and muck around with things from there. I'll probably add another echoplex to the mixer output for capturing the whole thing, so that will be another loop. I usually set up the drum sequences so that the outputs are consistent, ie out 1 = snare, out 2 = bass drums, out 3 = hihats, etc, so that each channel has it's own purpose. It can still get kinda complicated though. So how to remember what is where? Here are some ideas I have, which might help: - be consistent about what you put into different loopers, so it's easier to remember what went where. Maybe one is for rhythmic things and another is for droney ambient things, or divide up by instrument like I am. If you do that it makes sense to use labels too. - use a mixer so that you can briefly adjust a fader knob, hear what happens and remind you. Or you could just subtly adjust output volumes on one device or another and see if it's the one you want. - use level meters so that you can "see" what's in each one. Some loop devices will have a level LED of some sort to indicate loop audio. (like the feedback LED on the echoplex). In a dense loop that might just be on all the time, so it may or may not help. - use a headphone monitor, with a different mix control than the amplified sound. (like dj's do) - just wing it, and pretend that the result was intentional. hope this helps, I'd like to hear any other ideas people have. Or any ideas of how a future loop device might make this sort of thing easier. Everybody seems to want multiple loop capability in next generation loopers, but that's the simple part. Figuring out a useful interface to control that is the real challenge. kim _______________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 Mpact Systems Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Wed Apr 22 00:03:45 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 15:50:40 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRlry-00027K-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 15:50:30 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 15:37:36 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: just a casual reminder.... Resent-Message-ID: <"LlclmB.A.nU.C_RP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5189 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 15:50:30 -0700 X-UIDL: fe0a95eba2f16d8658a3b8fde79abd1f >> >just a casual reminder.... >> >...that this is LOOPER'S Delight, not Guitar Player's Delight..... >> >> >Now, some of you six-string wunderkinds may find this completely shocking, >> >but a lot of people here don't even play guitar! I know it's hard to >> >believe, but it's true! Guess how interested they are in long discussions >> >about guitar playing that have no looping content whatsoever? > I dunno, I don't play guitar, hate Allan Holdsworth (yeah, he can play some cool chords, and is a hot soloist, but his records bore me to tears), and have about the same feeling about Fripp, but I don't mind seeing them discussed on the list. I'd rather see a more open forum, where people feel free to blab about what concerns them, than to have people not post because something is not quite on topic. Yeah, there's a lot of anal ambient guitarism that floats about here, but hey, that's what you get when you gather a bunch of anal ambient guitarists together. It's up to the rest of us anal non-ambient non-guitarists to provide the antidote. So, I'm currently listening to what has to be the sickest loop CD I've heard in ages: Tony Conrad's Early Minimalism. 4 discs of overdubbed, looped, atonal violin drones. the piece "Four Violins" was recorded in 1964, and it's 32 minutes of multitracked overdriven harmonics, sharp enough to peel paint at moderate volume. Fantastic stuff! ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ "...there will come a day when you won't have to use gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." -Sun Ra ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Wed Apr 22 00:03:47 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 15:57:38 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRlym-000353-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 15:57:32 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980421174518.006a90f0@mail.utexas.edu> X-Sender: esker@mail.utexas.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:45:18 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthew hahn Subject: more than casual remainder... In-Reply-To: <000C3218.----@wj.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"gXFzQD.A.GIB.sESP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5190 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 15:57:32 -0700 X-UIDL: ea0bdc66c05e30143b95d2759868ccb7 maybe just a word about looping with guitars? please? OK, I do think that the future of looping is in the interface. That is the control and the focus, the question of what you can do is important, but if you want more sales, it's clear utmost ease/control/flexibility is going to be needed. That is the history of music since the beginnings of notation, through the piano, through recordings, widespread distribution of media, for all too consume. Leading to computers which can through software enable detailed controls of architecture. I think we have to look at the bones of a sampler, a computer, and how easily we want to relate. brown25 brought up some points about how production while somewhat static in DAW did offer quite a lot even to someone who isn't trained in making music. It becomes the art of constructs. But then you have talent such as virtuoso guitar players that like to loop to no end and talk mostly about guitars, and fuzzy things. So where do the two meet? I think if you plug a monitor into the Echoplex that would be something, just direct boom. For live performance. You could see sound mapped and consider if you wanted to do something about it by studying sounds you liked and didn't. By visually catagorizing, a way could be created to choose loops like and move them on the fly, shifts. All onscreen. You could even have a foot pedal to control it, if you were so inclined? Just build a second layer into the Echoplex foot pedal already, flip switch boom, we're into the batcave batman! THis wouldn't elude the hardware either. It would provide perhaps a very simple set of commands which mirror those you believe would most be helped by becoming visual. Overdubb might be one. You could see the chords and keep track of how many overdubbs and how much memory perhaps easier by seeing it on screen, and you cut and move when ready. Just a suggestion. Mjh From ???@??? Wed Apr 22 00:03:47 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 16:07:09 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRm7s-0004Oq-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:06:56 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980421174838.0068d664@mail.utexas.edu> X-Sender: esker@mail.utexas.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:48:38 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthew hahn Subject: another causal reminder Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"b2AxyC.A.YdC.UOSP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5191 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:06:56 -0700 X-UIDL: 12b160a827aab83ccb6f030d131ebf62 FEEDBACK = PERFECTION + TIME From ???@??? Wed Apr 22 00:03:48 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 16:13:49 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRmET-0005O2-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:13:45 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 15:57:43 -0700 Message-ID: <000C38D0.----@wj.com> From: Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle) Subject: Re[2]: just a casual reminder.... To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, tdbajus Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"NV0TFD.A.GcD.aVSP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5192 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:13:45 -0700 X-UIDL: 360e6175bcc6d8627cbf15a5cb81cc49 Hey thanks, Trevor! I'm glad Thomas W. piped up about Kim's girlfriend thread... Now everyone contributed to that one didn't they? *That* was interesting reading! 8-> Kim... Do you own a fuzzbox? Aren't you the least bit curious? I seem to remember one Z. Vex box which was designed by Chuck Zwicky. Is that *our* Chuck Zwicky? (How many could there be?) Maybe a short 20 page review of that one, with looping references please, might satiate our sick lust for guitar and all related information! 8-)= Once again... -Miko Kim Flint... >>just a casual reminder.... >>...that this is LOOPER'S Delight, not Guitar Player's Delight..... >>Now, some of you six-string wunderkinds may find this completely shocking, >>but a lot of people here don't even play guitar! I know it's hard to >>believe, but it's true! Guess how interested they are in long discussions >>about guitar playing that have no looping content whatsoever? Trevor wrote... >I though I ought to jump out here for old Mike's support here... Hey! 44's not that old... ;-> I'm regressing every day! Soon (not soon enough) I'll be blatheringly happy and making happy retirement noise... >Not that this has ever happened, but if there was ever a thread that I thought >was interminably dull (inconceivable, but one must accept the remote >possibility :-), I just delete the message. I've thought about this, and while >my gear geekery exceeds that of all but a few of my friends, we all seem to be >pretty much tied. In fact, sometimes I feel like the Luddite of the group >(tube amp, twenty-five year old pedals, 30+ year old guitar, and a JamMan). >When the discussions of the various software programs for sequencing, editing, >time-stretching, etc come along, I just erase them, after browsing through >them. >Please don't take my pedal reviews away! >And I agree that this is the most stimulating list that I belong to, in many >ways, despite the fact that our musical tastes seem to differ. What I like >about the discussions we have here is that most of us seem to be a group that >challenges their current aestetics. >Not to mention we seem to be an exceedingly funny bunch as well. >Trevor From ???@??? Wed Apr 22 00:03:55 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 16:26:54 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRmQy-0007Ep-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:26:40 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:05:55 -0700 Message-ID: <000C38F8.----@wj.com> From: Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle) Subject: Current Listening, once againnnnn... To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"iODenD.A.NJF.PhSP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5193 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:26:40 -0700 X-UIDL: a7dfdb728b6bcc9b1eeea2ee88dbafbb Dave Trenkel wrote... So, I'm currently listening to what has to be the sickest loop CD I've heard in ages: Tony Conrad's Early Minimalism. 4 discs of overdubbed, looped, atonal violin drones. the piece "Four Violins" was recorded in 1964, and it's 32 minutes of multitracked overdriven harmonics, sharp enough to peel paint at moderate volume. Fantastic stuff! MB: Wow Dave. Pretty tricky of you to take this in another direction. Do you have kids? Can you say redirect? I forget who mentioned it but the Czukay/Walker disc "Clash" is pretty cool. Not my usual listening, but disc 2 is really interesting. Are there any guitarist types doing this sort of thing? In dance clubs? Any suggestions would be most welcome. I also have been listening to the Nels Cline Trio, "Ground" and that's a nice blend of straight ahead free jazz, with a heavy dose of Sonic Youth style noise injection. Nels and Thurston Moore also have a disc out called "The Pillow Wand" which is also interesting for aggressive ambience types. I listen to Terje Rypdal "EOS" (duo with cellist David Darling) at least two times a week... -Miko From ???@??? Wed Apr 22 00:03:56 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 16:42:00 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRmfc-0001bR-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:41:48 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980421232750.009ba804@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:27:50 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: just a casual reminder.... Resent-Message-ID: <"8xDHWB.A.yI.cxSP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5195 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:41:48 -0700 X-UIDL: 1722ddd218f001844960fe0b1a4676f6 At 04:58 PM 4/21/98 +0100, tdbajus wrote: >Mike Biffle wrote: > >> >just a casual reminder.... >> >...that this is LOOPER'S Delight, not Guitar Player's Delight..... >> >> >Now, some of you six-string wunderkinds may find this completely shocking, >> >but a lot of people here don't even play guitar! I know it's hard to >> >believe, but it's true! Guess how interested they are in long discussions >> >about guitar playing that have no looping content whatsoever? > >I though I ought to jump out here for old Mike's support here... > ok, clearly the fuzz pedal comment was a mistake, since a number of you seem to have latched right onto that tree and completely missed the forest. Here are some choice quotes from "The Net: User Guidelines and Netiquette" - by Arlene Rinaldi, which can be found online. The discussion forum section is at this url: http://www.fau.edu/rinaldi/net/dis.html. If you've never read one of these, I'd encourage you to do so....the ideas underlying "netiquette" were hashed out long ago and don't require another discussion here. to wit: ******************** - Keep your questions and comments relevant to the focus of the discussion group. - If another person posts a comment or question that is off the subject, do NOT reply to the list and keep the off- subject conversation going publicly. - When someone posts an off-subject note, and someone else criticizes that posting, you should NOT submit a gratuitous note saying "well, I liked it and lots of people probably did as well and you guys ought to lighten up and not tell us to stick to the subject". ******************** My post had nothing to do with Miko's pedal reviews, which happened to appear at the same time. (although, note the third point above....) It was not an indictment of anybody in particular, nor was it an order of what you can or cannot do here. However, it had everything to do with the aggregate of posts over the past few weeks, which have regularly drifted far from the list topic, and the unseen effect that has on the group as a whole. I noticed a pattern long ago in running this list: whenever lots of off-topic discussion happens, large amounts of people unsubscribe. They don't say why, they just go. Maybe it's related to the lack of loop content, maybe not. But the pattern is clearly there. This has again been happening for the past week. You may think that you don't care about that, but some very interesting people left recently, and I don't think that is to the benefit of the group. Who knows what they might have contributed? Nobody moderates this group, and I have no intention of changing that. It operates according to the classic internet principles of communal anarchy. That is, we are each equally responsible for ourselves and the welfare of the group, and it is up to each of us to respect the group as a whole. With regards to topicality, that means being respectful of the time and interests of others here, and considering whether a particular post is relevant for public discussion in this forum or whether it should be conducted in email or elsewhere. In otherwords, show respect for _everyone_. Bear in mind that not everybody can filter their mail, not everybody has infinite bandwidth available, and for those reading the digest (when it works..) deleting a particular post based on the subject line is not necessarily an option. It is solely up to you to make these decisions about what you post here; my only point is to make you a bit more aware of the larger consequences, and ask that you be considerate. Looper's Delight is hopefully a special and unique place on the internet, the only place where people can come to discuss this particular niche of the musical universe. There are many other forums which may be more appropriate for some discussions. Use them as you see fit. There is a long history of fascinating loop-oriented discussions that have happened here, readily viewable in the archives of the list. I'd like to see that tradition continue, rather than see it increasingly watered down. kim _______________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 Mpact Systems Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Wed Apr 22 00:04:19 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 20:02:46 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRpo5-0006vx-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 20:02:45 -0700 Message-ID: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD02CA0CB@migarexch01.maritz.com> From: "Liebig, Steuart A." To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Current Listening, once againnnnn... Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 18:36:11 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Resent-Message-ID: <"FIsEhB.A.QFF.BtVP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5206 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 20:02:45 -0700 X-UIDL: 1ffc4516cccea022b21287dbc92e3dd5 Since we're on Nels. He has a new album called "Sad" (I also recommend "Chest"). Content Ad: And guess what kids! He loops. I tried to mention this about a month or so ago . . . he uses an EH 16-second delay. Highly recommended. Uses lots of p*****s, as well as space guns and egg whisks. Gig Ad: For you LA folk he will be playing at Luna Park on May 3rd with GE Stinson (who also loops) on Guitars, Jeff Gathier (who sometimes does) on violins, and yours truly on 6-string basses (looping as well). The band is the GE Stinson String Group. Lots of noise damage, bucolic bliss, classical stylism, big riffs, twisted blues imagery . . . basically whatever happens-total improv. Chris Speed from NY will be here with his band. > I also have been listening to the Nels Cline Trio, "Ground" and that's > a nice > blend of straight ahead free jazz, with a heavy dose of Sonic Youth > style noise > injection. Nels and Thurston Moore also have a disc out called "The > Pillow Wand" > which is also interesting for aggressive ambience types. > They also have something called In-Store. > I listen to Terje Rypdal "EOS" (duo with cellist David Darling) at > least two > times a week... > > -Miko > From ???@??? Wed Apr 22 00:03:58 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 17:02:28 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRmzT-0004WK-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:02:19 -0700 Message-ID: <003801bd6d80$369f6860$4723dacf@earthlight> Reply-To: "Stephen P. Goodman" From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: Re: just a casual reminder.... Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:50:03 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"FMrZPB.A.pxC.zDTP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5196 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:02:19 -0700 X-UIDL: e3909a533a36bef1dfe5f1996ab8702e I happened upon a System we might all be able to use for free. It's offering 5MB of space, though from first glance the speeds between here and there are medium. Will let you know how it goes... Stephen Goodman * It's... The Loop Of The Week! EarthLight Studios * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios From ???@??? Wed Apr 22 00:04:02 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 17:13:16 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRn9y-00064K-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:13:10 -0700 Message-ID: <353D335E.254514DA@mediaone.net> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 20:01:35 -0400 From: innerspace@mediaone.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en]C-MOEMW (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: looping week References: <2.2.32.19980420225823.006cde70@mail.dada.it> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Vg1xo.A.6LE.1NTP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5197 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:13:10 -0700 X-UIDL: 1a462fba2ee4a95e64651388494b8ff9 hello leo...     I'm a twenty-two year old existentialist lost in the loop...   Soon I'll be where you just were...   Definitely interested in what the people had to say about it... How did they react to the changes from mildly ambient to heavy percussi0on........ anyway, I'm interested in knowing more...                                                                                                      Js....;-) Leonardo Cavallo wrote: > Hi all > > just finished to perform a looping set for a multimedia theatre piece, live. > The first of 2 nights. Some minor problems, but all gone well. The critics > especially liked the interaction between music and videos. Tomorrow the > second night. > > And last thursday I've played my first public loop show, in front of 1200 > persons waiting for the main act of the night. I looped with a > drummer/percussionist for 1/2 hour and it's been a success. Some ambient > moments, some rhytmic things and a heavy sampled groove to complete the > ending of the performace. I found the people very interested, more than I > expected. > > if you wanna know more simply ask > ciao > leo   From ???@??? Wed Apr 22 00:03:59 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 17:03:49 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRn0n-0004jE-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:03:41 -0700 X-From_:innerspace@mediaone.net Tue Apr 21 17:03:29 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net ([207.171.193.21] helo=falcon.slip.net) by ferret.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for loopers-delight@slip.net id 0yRn0Z-0004gf-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:03:27 -0700 Received: from [24.131.1.17] (helo=mw.mediaone.net) by falcon.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com id 0yRn0T-0000l7-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:03:21 -0700 Received: from mediaone.net ([24.131.4.70]) by mw.mediaone.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with ESMTP id AAA9859 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 20:03:01 -0400 Message-ID: <353D33C8.5DA01CC9@mediaone.net> Old-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 20:03:20 -0400 From: innerspace@mediaone.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en]C-MOEMW (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: (no subject) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Diagnostic: undecipherable, help sent X-Envelope-To: Loopers-Delight Sender: SmartList Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:03:41 -0700 X-UIDL: 2d120a000b6b94d71822a76f5203912e dear looped-=doctor's MOLTO........  please define in context of ambient illusions.. From ???@??? Wed Apr 22 00:04:14 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 19:23:24 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRpBs-0001Ps-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:23:16 -0700 Message-ID: <353D34C5.B352CD19@mediaone.net> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 20:07:33 -0400 From: innerspace@mediaone.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en]C-MOEMW (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: INFINITE GUITAR References: <01bd6ce4$15aacba0$4b08bfa8@0QHC6SIA> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------1ACBEEB9198CB8CC8D27390E" Resent-Message-ID: <"M1phdC.A.0JH.1HVP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5202 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:23:16 -0700 X-UIDL: 1b4b0ec85ccd9531f565dc897fac5ba5 hey jeff......

there have been a number of guitars on the market that make reference to something like "Sustainiac" in their names....   they've all got hot  pickups
and sustainer circuitry inside 'em....   I'm guessing its the same circuit as is used in stomp pedals......
start there.
COLLINSCLAN wrote:

 Does anyone know how I can modify my guitar to get the infinite sustain like Michael Brook has. I've found a couple of sites that mention it. But no REAL information or schematic. I'm attempting to do it myself. But i'm hoping that someone can save me the trouble.Jeff Collinscollinsclan@sprintmail.com 
  From ???@??? Wed Apr 22 00:04:05 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 17:26:41 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRnMt-0000C5-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:26:31 -0700 Message-ID: <353D3677.8799BD8D@mediaone.net> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 20:14:47 -0400 From: innerspace@mediaone.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en]C-MOEMW (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: pedals!! (was: splitters) References: <3.0.1.16.19980421103450.256fbb50@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tj45h.A.E9F.GaTP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5198 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:26:31 -0700 X-UIDL: 7f9469a082367dc2efd0ee92d95067d1 Honestly, I've found that  I generally start to convince myself of that notion the minute I've convinced myself that there are  no other creative alternatives... Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D. wrote: > >> Z-VEX , is that the company with the "crackle okay" pedal??? That sounds > >> like a great idea , have you tried it?? > > That IS the crackle ok pedal! > > No, the Crackle Okay control if on the tastefully named "Super Hard-On" pedal. > > On the subject of pedaqls, does anyone find that FX pedals can just become > a gimmick, and that the audience tire of hearing "there's that Ring > Modulator again" on, say, a 2-hour Ambient looping set? > > Michael   From ???@??? Wed Apr 22 00:04:18 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 19:58:31 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRpjq-0006K7-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:58:22 -0700 Message-ID: <353D3ABB.4FBF5DD7@mediaone.net> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 20:32:59 -0400 From: innerspace@mediaone.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en]C-MOEMW (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: looped Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"m09ggB.A.onE.3pVP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5205 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:58:22 -0700 X-UIDL: 3eb69d3857f327f02efc756b754e9b94 hello all,     Thought I might return to subject at hand (loops) by letting you all in on what I'm up to here in Detroit (ish)...     I've been working on an Improv. project that pretty much has no bounds...   Myself and generally  three others from this area have been jamming in Ann Arbor for a little under two years.  We've been working on three things, live mix to two-track, live mix to p.a. and integrating all of our equipment without overloading our minds( or anymore channels on the board). Anyway, We use Jammen, echopli ( I love it), Digitech time machine's etc.  for looping...  We cover pretty much all genre's from ambient synth textures to blues based jam's to reggae-dub funk...  and anything above beyond and between. what I'm truly hoping to find within this list are the experiences of others who have tried to bring this kind of music to public venues before me...  I'm interested in how an audience will react to a three hour set, all improvised, during which the sound never stops, and ideas are allowed to fully evolve.... I can't seem to get these words out tonight... any responses are welcome... only have tapes via mail for reference but what the heck it worked fine till a few years ago I From ???@??? Wed Apr 22 00:04:07 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 17:58:53 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRns3-0004gE-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:58:43 -0700 From: NEMOGUIT Message-ID: Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 20:46:55 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: just a casual reminder.... Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 81 Resent-Message-ID: <"36noCB.A.ABD.84TP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5199 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:58:43 -0700 X-UIDL: 0d7e46f60e2aa2a57b3781c9c40f11cb i just sat here and read the last 32 posts to LD, listening to a loop i created using my mighty casio cz-5000 synth, a 5 sec delay on my alesis q2 going into my rang which was slowed down to 1/2 speed and played backwards. i,honest to God,did not touch my g----r. ...............................michael From ???@??? Wed Apr 22 00:04:12 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 18:42:13 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRoY5-0003BQ-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 18:42:09 -0700 From: "Woehni" To: Subject: SV: just a casual reminder.... Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 03:30:17 +0200 Message-ID: <01bd6d8e$34d379a0$37014382@pentium-200> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"aE_tAD.A.ewB.OjUP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5200 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 18:42:09 -0700 X-UIDL: 1f8fe8d945b83e7064c73b5412a7a0b4 >So, I'm currently listening to what has to be the sickest loop CD I've >heard in ages: Tony Conrad's Early Minimalism. 4 discs of overdubbed, >looped, atonal violin drones. the piece "Four Violins" was recorded in >1964, and it's 32 minutes of multitracked overdriven harmonics, sharp >enough to peel paint at moderate volume. Fantastic stuff! > What ever happened to "its hip to be sqare" ? :-) Thomas From ???@??? Wed Apr 22 00:04:14 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 19:03:23 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRosX-0006Iz-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:03:17 -0700 From: PJBMHB Message-ID: Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:52:59 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Multiple Loopers Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Resent-Message-ID: <"-WFHaD.A.8nE.x2UP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5201 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:03:17 -0700 X-UIDL: 9d505d91ca72ba7120e29040b7389c2a sometimes using some kind of proccessing in one loop but not the other can help you keep track of which one is which. tremelo has always worked for me. =-) PJ From ???@??? Wed Apr 22 00:04:16 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 19:34:19 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRpMP-0002vr-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:34:09 -0700 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sprintmail.com From: "COLLINSCLAN" To: Subject: Re: just a casual reminder.... Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:14:03 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd6d94$51d76560$1708bfa8@0QHC6SIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"iJJBKB.A.6-.-PVP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5203 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:34:09 -0700 X-UIDL: e34afab01dda806ec34197457e888909 Didn't Tony Conrad play with La Monte Young in his Theater of Eternal Music. I love La Monte and think that he's a genius. How can I find the Tony Conrad CD "Four Violins"? Jeff Collins collinsclan@sprintmail.com -----Original Message----- From: Dave Trenkel To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Tuesday, April 21, 1998 6:43 PM Subject: Re: just a casual reminder.... >>> >just a casual reminder.... >>> >...that this is LOOPER'S Delight, not Guitar Player's Delight..... >>> >>> >Now, some of you six-string wunderkinds may find this completely shocking, >>> >but a lot of people here don't even play guitar! I know it's hard to >>> >believe, but it's true! Guess how interested they are in long discussions >>> >about guitar playing that have no looping content whatsoever? >> >I dunno, I don't play guitar, hate Allan Holdsworth (yeah, he can play some >cool chords, and is a hot soloist, but his records bore me to tears), and >have about the same feeling about Fripp, but I don't mind seeing them >discussed on the list. I'd rather see a more open forum, where people feel >free to blab about what concerns them, than to have people not post because >something is not quite on topic. Yeah, there's a lot of anal ambient >guitarism that floats about here, but hey, that's what you get when you >gather a bunch of anal ambient guitarists together. It's up to the rest of >us anal non-ambient non-guitarists to provide the antidote. > >So, I'm currently listening to what has to be the sickest loop CD I've >heard in ages: Tony Conrad's Early Minimalism. 4 discs of overdubbed, >looped, atonal violin drones. the piece "Four Violins" was recorded in >1964, and it's 32 minutes of multitracked overdriven harmonics, sharp >enough to peel paint at moderate volume. Fantastic stuff! > > >________________________________________________________ >Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ > >"...there will come a day when you won't have to use >gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in >your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper >type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em >together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em >together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." > -Sun Ra >________________________________________________________ > > > > From ???@??? Wed Apr 22 00:04:17 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 19:42:33 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRpUO-00045E-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:42:24 -0700 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sprintmail.com From: "COLLINSCLAN" To: Subject: Re: Current Listening, once againnnnn... Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:23:30 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd6d95$a40fde60$1708bfa8@0QHC6SIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"opd_kB.A.gOC.3YVP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5204 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:42:24 -0700 X-UIDL: df08b0134f428517df142ab243dfd07f Miko, I know of someone who might do some of the things that you're looking for and his name is HANS REICHEL. The guy has played with everyone on the Avant scene and does some amazing stuff with these custom doublenecks he made himself. I'll tell you of him more off the list. OK. Jeff Collins collinsclan@sprintmail.com -----Original Message----- From: Mike Biffle To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com ; Dave Trenkel Date: Tuesday, April 21, 1998 7:20 PM Subject: Current Listening, once againnnnn... >Dave Trenkel wrote... >So, I'm currently listening to what has to be the sickest loop CD I've >heard in ages: Tony Conrad's Early Minimalism. 4 discs of overdubbed, >looped, atonal violin drones. the piece "Four Violins" was recorded in >1964, and it's 32 minutes of multitracked overdriven harmonics, sharp >enough to peel paint at moderate volume. Fantastic stuff! > >MB: Wow Dave. Pretty tricky of you to take this in another direction. Do you >have kids? Can you say redirect? > >I forget who mentioned it but the Czukay/Walker disc "Clash" is pretty cool. Not >my usual listening, but disc 2 is really interesting. Are there any guitarist >types doing this sort of thing? In dance clubs? Any suggestions would be most >welcome. > >I also have been listening to the Nels Cline Trio, "Ground" and that's a nice >blend of straight ahead free jazz, with a heavy dose of Sonic Youth style noise >injection. Nels and Thurston Moore also have a disc out called "The Pillow Wand" >which is also interesting for aggressive ambience types. > >I listen to Terje Rypdal "EOS" (duo with cellist David Darling) at least two >times a week... > > -Miko > > From ???@??? Wed Apr 22 00:04:20 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 20:23:01 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRq7a-0001tg-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 20:22:54 -0700 From: PJBMHB Message-ID: <8850a538.353d604a@aol.com> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 23:13:12 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Current Listening, once againnnnn... Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Resent-Message-ID: <"ip4UuB.A.or.LCWP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5207 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 20:22:54 -0700 X-UIDL: df172079759bbd70eb777e7dd7f2b27a listening to fripp & sylvian's the 1st day. great stuff. i love nels cline's stuff but have not been able to find his trio stuff anywhere. any suggestions? his work on the geraldine fibber's butch and mike watt's contemplating the engine room is awesome. i really want to hear more of his stuff. =-) PJ From ???@??? Wed Apr 22 00:04:20 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 21:02:46 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRqk0-0007PK-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:02:36 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980421225142.006a7920@mail.utexas.edu> X-Sender: esker@mail.utexas.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:51:42 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthew hahn Subject: feedback in the loop does not equal perfection + time Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"J2hQ6D.A.YXF.-jWP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5208 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:02:36 -0700 X-UIDL: b92134d0ca634d7a6f200968c2f00686 X F = Q feedback quantity of raised to quality of X subjective (number -10, not 0, through 10) Q of loops * Velocity of integration or (I) mpact of ideas adopted ) (subjective number) ---------------- Q of loops ---------- year = perfection in terms of ideas adopted per year ...equation probably doesn't work. point is maybe perfection = getting what you want from the loop. Mjh From ???@??? Wed Apr 22 00:04:23 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 22:15:02 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRrrv-0001jG-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:14:51 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:04:24 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: just a casual reminder.... Resent-Message-ID: <"j1uK5C.A.UP.jpXP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5210 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:14:51 -0700 X-UIDL: 93b59d686c98d21518f77c7dfecea5fe >Didn't Tony Conrad play with La Monte Young in his Theater of Eternal Music. >I love La Monte and think that he's a genius. How can I find the Tony Conrad >CD "Four Violins"? >Jeff Collins >collinsclan@sprintmail.com > "Four Violins" is a part of the 4CD Early Minimalism set by Conrad on Table of the Elements. "Four Violins" was recorded in '64, the rest of the set was recorded recently, but composed in the mid-60's. Evidently, at least according to Conrad, LaMonte Young has been sitting on recordings of the Theater of Eternal Music, with Conrad, John Cale, and others, refusing to release them because they showed that many of the innovations that credited to Young were actually developed by as group collaborations. The Conrad box, at least the 2 discs I've listened to so far, is great. I have a few other records of his, a collaboration with Faust that is one extended psychedelic riff extended over about an hour, and a disc for amplified strings from a few years ago. Very nice, really hardcore minimalism. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ "...there will come a day when you won't have to use gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." -Sun Ra ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Wed Apr 22 00:04:22 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 22:14:02 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRrr2-0001al-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:13:56 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:04:26 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Current Listening, once againnnnn... Resent-Message-ID: <"09zJnD.A.3O.gpXP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5209 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:13:56 -0700 X-UIDL: 709a7bf410478286d5c09c51bee425aa >I also have been listening to the Nels Cline Trio, "Ground" and that's a nice >blend of straight ahead free jazz, with a heavy dose of Sonic Youth style >noise >injection. Nels and Thurston Moore also have a disc out called "The Pillow >Wand" >which is also interesting for aggressive ambience types. > We opened for Nels' trio a while ago, awesome band. Does some very cool stuff with the E/H 16 second delay. >I listen to Terje Rypdal "EOS" (duo with cellist David Darling) at least two >times a week... > I've not heard that one, but his 2 trio discs with Jack DeJohnette and Miroslav Vitous are among my favorite ECM records. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ "...there will come a day when you won't have to use gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." -Sun Ra ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Wed Apr 22 00:04:27 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 21 23:52:19 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRtOE-00058a-00; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 23:52:18 -0700 Message-Id: <199804220648.CAA04317@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: Re: INFINITE GUITAR Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 02:47:02 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vmJTVD.A.ddE.mLZP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5211 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 23:52:18 -0700 X-UIDL: 74b5a787e95034626447630786469e03 Does anyone know how I can modify my guitar to get the infinite sustain like Michael Brook has. I've found a couple of sites that mention it. But no REAL information or schematic. I'm attempting to do it myself. But i'm hoping that someone can save me the trouble. Jeff Collins hey jeff... how about the fernandes sustainer - isn't that a pickup you can install???? peace andre' From ???@??? Wed Apr 22 00:38:41 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 22 00:22:45 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRtrg-00008D-00; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 00:22:44 -0700 Reply-To: "Stefano Voulaz" From: "Stefano Voulaz" To: Subject: re:INFINITE GUITAR Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 09:21:57 +0200 Message-ID: <01bd6dbf$55790ea0$6902a8c0@voulaz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"SXK4qB.A.aGH.PoZP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5212 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 00:22:44 -0700 X-UIDL: 041076e4e0a90d374ace66ea559d5be6 Thomas wrote: >[snip] the sustained sound was very low volumed. Fernandes guitars with sustainer have a separate knob to adjust the balance between the direct and the sustained sound volume. It's the outer knob on the body (the one with the mid-position click). The two switches are used to switch the sustainer on/off (the two positions switch) and to select between fundamental only/fundamental+harmonic/harmonic only sustain (the three position switch). The Fernandes sustainer, the Sustainiac from Maniac Music and the new E-bow all allow for sustain on the fundamental note or on its 3rd/5th harmonic (somehow also on the octave). >1. does the guitar work as its advertised to? (infinite sustain) Yes, definitely - I have one. At least as long as the battery lasts! >2. is it just me? Naaaah! What about the battery? It could have been a little down... Ciao! The Looping Uncle 8^)# From ???@??? Wed Apr 22 10:14:38 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 22 00:56:33 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yRuOO-0002jN-00; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 00:56:32 -0700 Message-ID: <009b01bd6dc3$c04a7f80$6c22dacf@earthlight> Reply-To: "Stephen P. Goodman" From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: Linda McCartney Dedication Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 00:53:31 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"oWYe6D.A.FSC.MIaP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5213 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 00:56:32 -0700 X-UIDL: be4ce27197fbb1626b4102c27f3a412d In tribute to Linda and the good work she did while here (at least physically), for the next two Saturdays, The Loop Of The Week will be dedicated to her. I prefer to think of the positive work to be done in the future, and it's in that sense that I am doing this, at http://www.earthlight.net/Studios. In case you didn't know, +ACI-The Loop Of The Week+ACI- is an ambient, self-running loop recording, posted also as a ZIPped archive for other than the Windows/95/NT platform. Opinions of the Loop have been positive, from me being told that they were used as audio mantras for meditation, to use in music therapy of sorts for terminal patients (this from a nurse in Texas). Previous tributees via the LOTW are few: Carl Perkins, and Ewart Abner (the man who originally signed the Beatles at Vee-Jay Records). Stephen P. Goodman EarthLight Productions-Studios http://www.earthlight.net/Studios From ???@??? Wed Apr 22 10:15:21 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 22 07:18:21 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yS0Lr-00067j-00; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 07:18:19 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980422140855.006dd4a4@mail.dada.it> X-Sender: cavallo@mail.dada.it X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 16:08:55 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Leonardo Cavallo Subject: Re: looping week Resent-Message-ID: <"LnHkP.A.SLF.TsfP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5214 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 07:18:19 -0700 X-UIDL: ccb856bde76f5576e9469892911b4fda At 20.01 21/04/98 -0400, you wrote: >hello leo... > >ÊÊÊ I'm a twenty-two year old existentialist lost in the loop...ÊÊ Soon I'll be >where you just were...ÊÊ Definitely interested in what the people had to say >about it... >How did they react to the changes from mildly ambient to heavy >percussi0on........ > >anyway, I'm interested in knowing more... >Ê Hi regarding my recent live experience: well, the audience was not there to meditate or listen deeply to what come from the stage. They wanted to dance to the headliner of the evening, an alternative local band called M. I took the M singer and let him read some words and sparse poems over the first part of the loop. Then for 20-25 minutes I've been alone with a drummer/percussionist (simply playing colours, accents and percussions, not a steady rhythm) to make the loop evolve and going wild. At last the sampled drums, 80 bpm of a heavyly pitched down rhythm, with the drummer and me playing this intense funk-dub groove for less than 10 minutes. The crowd liked the thing and the organization paid more than I expected. I think it was a positive experience. But I found a lot more interesting the theatre work. The direction of the loops and the sound choices were written down following the director suggestions but I had a lot of free space to improvise and let the things evolve. I was high over the audience to see all the scene, the 3 megascreens and the actors moves and the interaction between music and all the rest was really exciting, especially the second night. Great experience I hope to repeat as soon as possible. Any of you looping for dancers or other art form? ciao leo PS. I'd like to talk about looping and that's al. It's not casual that I've avoided to write about equipment, about my Chapman Grand Stick, my Jamman 32 sec with Midi pedalboard, my new Vortex with footswitch and expression pedal or my beloved Yamaha fx770... oops :) From ???@??? Wed Apr 22 10:15:30 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 22 07:43:12 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yS0jt-00010U-00; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 07:43:09 -0700 From: KRosser414 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 10:38:02 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Current Listening, once againnnnn... Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Resent-Message-ID: <"BYY5y.A.OY.wDgP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5215 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 07:43:09 -0700 X-UIDL: b844d2e65b482fb9f83cda3a62f0a0e0 In a message dated 98-04-21 22:58:27 EDT, you write: << For you LA folk he (Nels Cline) will be playing at Luna Park on May 3rd with GE Stinson (who also loops) on Guitars, Jeff Gathier (who sometimes does) on violins, and yours truly on 6-string basses (looping as well). The band is the GE Stinson String Group. Lots of noise damage, bucolic bliss, classical stylism, big riffs, twisted blues imagery . . . basically whatever happens-total improv. >> Really, y'all should check it out, this is a *great* band. Ken R From ???@??? Wed Apr 22 10:15:33 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 22 07:50:38 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yS0r2-0001zM-00; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 07:50:32 -0700 From: KRosser414 Message-ID: <55cf7a44.353e025f@aol.com> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 10:44:46 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Current Listening, once againnnnn... Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Resent-Message-ID: <"_awfP.A.6NB.EKgP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5216 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 07:50:32 -0700 X-UIDL: d09ffe6018b1056f5a9d13acfd848904 Ry Cooder/Jim Keltner/Jon Hassel - Trespass Soundtrack. Daniel Lanois - For The Beauty Of Wynona. Miles Davis Quintet 1965-1968 (the new box). Kenny Wheeler/Sonny Greenwich Quintet at the Montreal Bistro Tool - Aenima David Lindley & Hani Nasser - two "official bootlegs" called Playing Real Good and Playing Even Better Paul Motian Trio - You Took The Words Right Out Of My Heart I think any fan of Torn's should check out the Trespass soundtrack, lots of dark intense guitar stuff. The Lanois reminds me of a burning question - it features a lot of Bill Dillon on guitarorgan. Exactly how did these things work and what specifically did they do? Never played one myself but he gets some pretty cool sounds out of it here. Sorry if this is too much of a guitar geek question...offlist is OK. Ken R From ???@??? Wed Apr 22 10:15:36 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 22 07:59:27 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yS0zb-0003EI-00; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 07:59:23 -0700 From: PJBMHB Message-ID: <2afe95d3.353e03e8@aol.com> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 10:51:18 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Gtr Organ Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Resent-Message-ID: <"hZWTPB.A.RFC.UQgP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5217 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 07:59:23 -0700 X-UIDL: 9555ffbe9e513b2fe442c744238b9b3b Gtr Organs have organ circuits wired into the frets so that when you fret an electrical contact is made and you get a note. kind of the granddady of the synthaxe if you will. =-) PJ From ???@??? Wed Apr 22 10:15:49 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 22 08:50:23 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yS1mm-0001Pp-00; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 08:50:12 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000C38F8.----@wj.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: klaw@iglou.com Subject: Re: Current Listening, once againnnnn... Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 11:38:09 -0400 Resent-Message-ID: <"JBohUD.A.fGH.y7gP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5219 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 08:50:12 -0700 X-UIDL: 7e177492974efba99c6bd081c090f1f1 >Dave Trenkel wrote... >So, I'm currently listening to what has to be the sickest loop CD I've >heard in ages: Tony Conrad's Early Minimalism. 4 discs of overdubbed, >looped, atonal violin drones. the piece "Four Violins" was recorded in >1964, and it's 32 minutes of multitracked overdriven harmonics, sharp >enough to peel paint at moderate volume. Fantastic stuff! > >MB: Wow Dave. Pretty tricky of you to take this in another direction. Do you >have kids? Can you say redirect? > >I forget who mentioned it but the Czukay/Walker disc "Clash" is pretty >cool. Not >my usual listening, but disc 2 is really interesting. Are there any guitarist >types doing this sort of thing? In dance clubs? Any suggestions would be most >welcome. >>>>>>Hey ,I do a lot of impovised & sequenced experimental techno/drum n bass using guitars & sampling here in Loiusvile Ky. Ive been quite fortunate to get plenty of gigs lately. Had some weird ones too. The resident dance club seems to be booking only hardcore punk so I play were I can.Yeah the CLASH disc is awesome Also have a listen to Mogwai's Fear Satan remix ep.(import) Uziq & Surgeon do some fine stuff but the tour de force is the Kevin Sheids- My Bloody Valentine mix. Truly innovative stuff. The middle section sounds like a looped bomb blast in slow motion. Its loud at any volume. Im a little surprised no one mentions Oval on this list. Their music definately incorporates looping & some bizarre manipulation. TAke care K LAW From ???@??? Wed Apr 22 10:15:48 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 22 08:50:06 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yS1mW-0001NJ-00; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 08:49:56 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000C318A.----@wj.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: klaw@iglou.com Subject: Re[2]:FF pedals!! (was: splitters) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 11:38:11 -0400 Resent-Message-ID: <"zaWtw.A.IFH.q7gP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5218 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 08:49:56 -0700 X-UIDL: a973de03820657df56d5e16f43a918b0 > Just a word to keep this on topic . I use my Fuzz Factory on just about >everything (not just gtr) Sounds great on drum loops esp. I also use it as >a oscillator feeding it back into itself with the switchblade & into a >loop unbeliveable noise posibitities . Juding by the nature of this box I >suspect mine sounds different than yours. MR Vex told me last year of a 20 >sec analog loop he was going to be releasing -intriging eh ? K LAW Michael P. wrote... > >On the subject of pedaqls, does anyone find that FX pedals can just > >become a gimmick, and that the audience tire of hearing "there's that > >Ring Modulator again" on, say, a 2-hour Ambient looping set? > >Michael > > I've got hours of jam tapes from "The Lunar Asylum" (what we are when > we get together.) And I find that, sure, there are often times > redundant useages of various pet effects and tones, which tend to be > the favorite of the month. But we're all attracted to these sounds for > *some* reason. So we use them and find their context and/or move on. > > That said, I find that what started out as an alienating sound, can > sometimes become understood in a different context and become a very > useful and workable sound. I've also been amused at other ensemble's > reactions to my use of those tones which I've grown comfortable with. > Ultimately you have to choose something that works with the ensemble > and material you're performing. > > Michael P. said... > >>> Z-VEX , is that the company with the "crackle okay" pedal??? That > >>>sounds like a great idea , have you tried it?? > > I said... > >> That IS the crackle ok pedal! > > >No, the Crackle Okay control if on the tastefully named "Super > Hard-On" pedal. > > MB: I went home last night thinking Fuzz Factory... Crackle OK, > Crackle OK. Mostly due to listening to it rather that looking at the > darn knobs and their titles. 8-> > > Well I started playing and looking at the knobs on my FF and THERE IS > NO 'CRACKLE OK' knob. Oops! It's personality is pretty Crackle OK > though. Here's the knob line up from right to left, which roughly > follows the signal path I believe. This review is based on my highly > subjective experience of last night's playing. > > STAB: Stability... Sort of a flabbiness / spikiness knob > > DRIVE: With compression down this *sort of* works like a normal fuzz > drive knob. Sort of meaning that at around 4 O'clock it goes from a > grainy toothy sounding fuzz, (It's dominant characteristic) to much > fatter sound. (At this point the Gate setting has to be increased for > silence between notes.) > > COMP: Compression. Seems to be second most straightforward knob on the > box. Still experimenting. (Cranking knobs in the dark.) > > GATE: Gating feature which is highly mandatory for any semblance of > silence between notes. (Threshold position varies depending on drive, > comp and stab settings.) The other *sound* after muting a note with > gate turned down is oscillation of some sort which IS tunable. You can > control the actual note with the Stab and Drive controls before you > open the Gate and begin oscillating... then you can jack up the Stab > and Drive and make it sound like radio static. Oh Boy... (I will use > this. How much remains to be seen.) > > VOLUME: Ouput level. Wow this one is simple. > > Notes: All controls seem *very* reactive to one another. Possibly > excepting the Volume knob, although the jury isn't in on that one. > There is NO tone control knob. You have to either love this pedal or > hate it on it's own terms. > > When A/B'ed with the PE Experience the Fuzz Factory seems to be > lacking severly in bottom end. That was my initial impression of the > pedal as well, but like I said in an earlier post... Each time I've > used it, it has been a very different experience. This a fun part of > using the fuzz factory as long as you're not looking for cover song > accuracy! I have no such needs, so I'm still waiting to become a true > believer. 8-> > > I've used it on separate 5 evenings and the impression is: Twice I've > felt that this baby was fat and singing in it's own quirky way. The > other times I've been a little too far into the insect buzz zone, > which the Experience does quite well with the Swell button (which you > can turn off! ;-)) In all fairness, the output level of the pedal into > my Pearce amp affects the overall fatness quite a lot as well, so > there's more to tweak than just the fuzz. Last night was pretty good. > > Anyway this is probably off topic for the list, but I know most of us > are knob twisters, and these are GOOD knobs to twist! > > Cheers, > -Miko From ???@??? Thu Apr 23 01:39:25 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 22 10:55:57 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yS3kH-0002eE-00; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 10:55:45 -0700 Message-ID: <19980422174014.13129.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [192.35.39.37] From: "Jamie Riazzi" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: ESI 32 USER GROUPS? Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 10:40:14 PDT Resent-Message-ID: <"YDR2d.A.kr.QviP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5220 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 10:55:46 -0700 X-UIDL: 14ee9d0665d49e67e83f82e95c24bb9d Hello All, Does anyone know of any ESI-32 Users groups, I am not looking for E-mu user groups, but I am looking for ESI-32 User Groups, Also I am trying to find someone who wants to sell a copy of the new V3 Operating System,If any one has any links could you send them? Also why does E-mu have such shitty sounds for there sampler, Does any one know of ant 3rd party people that make CD-ROMS to load on the ESI-32 that are half way decent! I am in to Industrial Noise Loops, and ACID JAZZ….Funny Combo enhhhhh Thanks Jamie R. iojar@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Thu Apr 23 01:39:41 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 22 12:04:12 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yS4oK-0004JA-00; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 12:04:00 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 11:55:38 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Current Listening, once againnnnn... Resent-Message-ID: <"0KRDgC.A.F_C.x0jP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5221 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 12:04:01 -0700 X-UIDL: 808bf0927ea2f95f5558ae53b26fd36f At 11:38 AM 4/22/98, klaw@iglou.com wrote: >Im a little surprised no one mentions Oval on this list. >Their music definately incorporates looping & some bizarre manipulation. I got their "Dok" CD on Thrill Jockey at the same time I got the Tony Conrad. I haven't given it more than a casual listen, but it seems pretty interesting. I heard some earlier material that strictly used skipping CD players as sound sources. Also, the new Tortoise disc "TNT" uses some fairly subtle looping. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ "...there will come a day when you won't have to use gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." -Sun Ra ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Thu Apr 23 01:40:42 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 22 16:20:03 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yS8o2-0004by-00; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 16:19:58 -0700 Message-ID: <353E7974.927F9A39@mediaone.net> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 19:12:52 -0400 From: innerspace@mediaone.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en]C-MOEMW (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: looping week References: <2.2.32.19980422140855.006dd4a4@mail.dada.it> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------DB0A65C9D3C8BE49295E8BFE" Resent-Message-ID: <"klO0fB.A.LcD.slnP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5222 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 16:19:58 -0700 X-UIDL: f597dca5474db69731334d4b311e844a  

Leonardo Cavallo wrote: >Hi

regarding my recent live experience: well, the audience was not there to
meditate or listen deeply to what come from the stage. They wanted to dance
to the headliner of the evening, an alternative local band called M.

...>local where?

 for 20-25 minutes I've been alone with a
drummer/percussionist (simply playing colours, accents and percussions, not
a steady rhythm) to make the loop evolve and going wild.

...>that is exactly what I'm talkin' about...that is what I/WE do here in A2..(Ann Arbor).

At last the sampleddrums, 80 bpm of a heavyly pitched down rhythm, with the drummer and me

playing this intense funk-dub groove for less than 10 minutes. The crowd
liked the thing and the organization paid more than I expected. I think it
was a positive experience.
Funk dub grooves generally are positive experiences
But I found a lot more interesting the theatre work. Any of you looping for dancers or other art form?
thanx for the response leo..I've had some minor experiences with theatre...but nothing terribly exciting or rememberable....:)however, I've been interested in improvising loops to a visual experience, film/videoprojection, etc... (w/ w/out and /or  live art-like performance via the mothers '69)

I'm interested in hearing exactly what you do.  If that's possible hit me w/ an e-mail... (innerspace@mediaone.net)
We've been brainstorming a number of things here in A2 like shows and cd's and lotsa fun stuff.  I'ts all still gelling but when it does interesting things could happen...  Have you ever done any work in a multi point sound system..meaning multiple stereo mixes being sent to multiple power amps feeding multiple cabinets.... mounted in m-u-l-t-i-p-l-e locations..(hehe) and sending signals from hither to thither  at will...{hehehe...;-)]
and furthermore, in a general question to anybody...
does anybody know how I might go about setting this up in a circular auditorium, and what the implications of serious phase shifting would be on the minds of those involved in this experiment....or anything about what I'm yappin aboot.. respondez si vous plait..;0)
 

                                                                                js

PS. I'd like to talk about looping and that's al.
pss:who's "al"

It's not casual that I've

avoided to write about equipment, about my Chapman Grand Stick, my Jamman 32
sec with Midi pedalboard, my new Vortex with footswitch and expression pedal
or my beloved Yamaha fx770... oops :)
hey we've all got our fixations
 
 
  From ???@??? Thu Apr 23 01:40:44 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 22 16:32:15 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yS8zo-0006EB-00; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 16:32:08 -0700 Message-ID: <353E7BAA.E0FA98AD@mediaone.net> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 19:22:18 -0400 From: innerspace@mediaone.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en]C-MOEMW (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Current Listening, once againnnnn... References: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------DDF596B20B5579AF590DF3E3" Resent-Message-ID: <"4wRrjB.A.JpE.wunP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5223 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 16:32:08 -0700 X-UIDL: c977bce04f493925d18608856d4ebfb8  

Dave Trenkel wrote:

At 11:38 AM 4/22/98, klaw@iglou.com wrote:

>Im a little surprised no one mentions Oval on this list.
>Their music definately incorporates looping & some bizarre manipulation.

I got their "Dok" CD on Thrill Jockey at the same time I got the Tony
Conrad. I haven't given it more than a casual listen, but it seems pretty
interesting. I heard some earlier material that strictly used skipping CD
players as sound sources.

Also, the new Tortoise disc "TNT" uses some fairly subtle looping.
 

right on..tortoise's "TnT" and the sea and cakes ep "two gentlemen" are bothe stuffed full of looped layers..
there's a wonderful sample of some guy talking about musical revolutions...round and round.... Another chicago based release I got turned onto recently is .o.rangs "fields and waves" . its relesed on hitit records, but the bands on echo.... however I could only get info thru hitit via the web so ya takes yer chances.

all this checago schtuff is so good its taking some of my friends away, they like it so much the've moved.

________________________________________________________
Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org  : www.peak.org/~improv/

"...there will come a day when you won't have to use
gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in
your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper
type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em
together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em
together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire."
                                            -Sun Ra
________________________________________________________

  From ???@??? Thu Apr 23 11:51:39 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 23 10:58:54 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0ySQGj-0000zR-00; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 10:58:45 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980422203511.009167d0@wavefront.com> X-Sender: chuck.zwicky@wavefront.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 20:35:11 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chuck Zwicky Subject: Re: Re[2]: just a casual reminder.... In-Reply-To: <000C38D0.----@wj.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"_uN8vB.A.KrG.553P1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5229 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 10:58:45 -0700 X-UIDL: d5f7d2c994fdc092ed4da5d2a64e16c2 Ok, I confess. I am a close friend of Mr. Vex. I designed the "Woolley Mammoth" pedal. It is a fuzz which is amazing on bass. It also does some blistering things to a guitar, too. It could be used in an effect LOOP. (there's the word!). Recently I've been re-discovering the delay modes of my DP/PRO. There is a cross-regen parameter which is calibrated in degrees. It causes a panning effect like no other. It seems to pan the different areas of the spectrum differently. Left in the infinite repeat mode, a signal evolves into a VERY creamy texture. I would love to have another one. If anyone hears about one for sale, let me know. -Chuck Zwicky At 03:57 PM 4/21/98 -0700, you wrote: > Hey thanks, Trevor! > > I'm glad Thomas W. piped up about Kim's girlfriend thread... > > Now everyone contributed to that one didn't they? *That* was > interesting reading! 8-> Kim... Do you own a fuzzbox? Aren't you the > least bit curious? > > I seem to remember one Z. Vex box which was designed by Chuck Zwicky. > Is that *our* Chuck Zwicky? (How many could there be?) Maybe a short > 20 page review of that one, with looping references please, might > satiate our sick lust for guitar and all related information! 8-)= > > Once again... > -Miko > >Kim Flint... >>>just a casual reminder.... >>>...that this is LOOPER'S Delight, not Guitar Player's Delight..... > >>>Now, some of you six-string wunderkinds may find this completely shocking, >>>but a lot of people here don't even play guitar! I know it's hard to >>>believe, but it's true! Guess how interested they are in long discussions >>>about guitar playing that have no looping content whatsoever? > >Trevor wrote... >>I though I ought to jump out here for old Mike's support here... > >Hey! 44's not that old... ;-> I'm regressing every day! Soon (not soon enough) >I'll be blatheringly happy and making happy retirement noise... > >>Not that this has ever happened, but if there was ever a thread that I thought >>was interminably dull (inconceivable, but one must accept the remote >>possibility :-), I just delete the message. I've thought about this, and while >>my gear geekery exceeds that of all but a few of my friends, we all seem to be >>pretty much tied. In fact, sometimes I feel like the Luddite of the group >>(tube amp, twenty-five year old pedals, 30+ year old guitar, and a JamMan). >>When the discussions of the various software programs for sequencing, editing, >>time-stretching, etc come along, I just erase them, after browsing through >>them. > >>Please don't take my pedal reviews away! > >>And I agree that this is the most stimulating list that I belong to, in many >>ways, despite the fact that our musical tastes seem to differ. What I like >>about the discussions we have here is that most of us seem to be a group that >>challenges their current aestetics. > >>Not to mention we seem to be an exceedingly funny bunch as well. >>Trevor > > > > > From ???@??? Thu Apr 23 11:51:38 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 23 10:58:36 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0ySQGQ-0000wp-00; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 10:58:26 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980422203829.007b6df0@wavefront.com> X-Sender: chuck.zwicky@wavefront.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 20:38:29 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chuck Zwicky Subject: Re: Current Listening, once againnnnn... In-Reply-To: <000C38F8.----@wj.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"g0AoQB.A.KsG._53P1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5230 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 10:58:26 -0700 X-UIDL: 791eb25317828f947bea26c350bfc848 I was just reading a book called "Rock Names" about the origin of band's names. "The Dream Sydicate" got there name from a Tony Conrad album...... At 04:05 PM 4/21/98 -0700, you wrote: >Dave Trenkel wrote... >So, I'm currently listening to what has to be the sickest loop CD I've >heard in ages: Tony Conrad's Early Minimalism. 4 discs of overdubbed, >looped, atonal violin drones. the piece "Four Violins" was recorded in >1964, and it's 32 minutes of multitracked overdriven harmonics, sharp >enough to peel paint at moderate volume. Fantastic stuff! > >MB: Wow Dave. Pretty tricky of you to take this in another direction. Do you >have kids? Can you say redirect? > >I forget who mentioned it but the Czukay/Walker disc "Clash" is pretty cool. Not >my usual listening, but disc 2 is really interesting. Are there any guitarist >types doing this sort of thing? In dance clubs? Any suggestions would be most >welcome. > >I also have been listening to the Nels Cline Trio, "Ground" and that's a nice >blend of straight ahead free jazz, with a heavy dose of Sonic Youth style noise >injection. Nels and Thurston Moore also have a disc out called "The Pillow Wand" >which is also interesting for aggressive ambience types. > >I listen to Terje Rypdal "EOS" (duo with cellist David Darling) at least two >times a week... > > -Miko > > > From ???@??? Thu Apr 23 01:40:56 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 22 18:49:59 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0ySB90-0006oT-00; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 18:49:46 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980422204630.006adc24@mail.utexas.edu> X-Sender: esker@mail.utexas.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 20:46:30 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthew hahn Subject: KLAW... pedals..dj In-Reply-To: References: <000C318A.----@wj.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"BWKFOC.A.nyF.L0pP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5224 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 18:49:47 -0700 X-UIDL: 9f9572b280967c21263b6ecc0c39523b ever run a mixer through a pedal for djing? (; Mjh From ???@??? Thu Apr 23 01:40:57 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 22 18:54:40 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0ySBDg-0007RL-00; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 18:54:36 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980422204828.006ab9ac@mail.utexas.edu> X-Sender: esker@mail.utexas.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 20:48:28 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthew hahn Subject: Jamie, ESI-32 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"uaWDIB.A.NCG.K2pP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5225 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 18:54:36 -0700 X-UIDL: 8140fd23dc214791e411ab0fea653afe I think you might find one through this http://www.synthzone.com/msg/szboard.html From ???@??? Thu Apr 23 09:29:54 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 23 05:48:33 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0ySLQV-00032E-00; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 05:48:31 -0700 X-Sender: nicomonguzzi@mail.vtx.ch Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 14:42:42 +0200 To: Loopers Delight * Mail List From: "nicomonguzzi" Subject: edp in europe Resent-Message-ID: <"45JUS.A.CjC.DfzP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5226 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 05:48:31 -0700 X-UIDL: e77b28ab40507de948c84c4884cb5e63 ciao someone at oberheim (or maybe kim) can answer? when they will sell the edp here in europe? it is true that the plex will be produced by the people at viscount in italy?? bye bye ciao nic From ???@??? Thu Apr 23 09:29:55 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 23 06:05:27 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0ySLgs-0004DB-00; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 06:05:26 -0700 X-Sender: nicomonguzzi@mail.vtx.ch Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 14:59:53 +0200 To: Loopers Delight * Mail List From: "nicomonguzzi" Subject: pickup on the neck (not loop oriented...) Resent-Message-ID: <"P2Xry.A.upD.2uzP1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5227 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 06:05:26 -0700 X-UIDL: 463e7c37632b0b0ff6f34b1968182e1b to all the guitarist... a friend of mine is looking for a pick up to mount at the top of the neck (first fret ) of an electric guitar. any advice is welcome!!! thanks sorry kim... if you don't want to be off topic, fell free to answer directly to me at nicomonguzzi@vtx.ch ciao nic From ???@??? Thu Apr 23 20:14:58 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 23 13:58:23 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yST4S-0007fx-00; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 13:58:16 -0700 Message-ID: <353F63EC.26F29823@nyfac.com> Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 16:53:16 +0100 From: tdbajus Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: drum machines and looping References: <3.0.5.32.19980422203829.007b6df0@wavefront.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"AxzcxB.A.IXG.Rn6P1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5232 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 13:58:17 -0700 X-UIDL: 2d6f9aef025b175ae075e81f0a44ca76 Thinking about bringing the old HR-16 out of retirement. Now, I could be wrong here but: 1) I am under the impression that one can, with a JamMan, have the old beast drive the midi time to the drum machine 2) I am also under the impression that one can have the looper slave to the drum machine and have the loop lengths determined by the length of the drum loop, but: a) the JamMan will occassionally pop because the audio loop is not sample accurate in relation to the HR16. b) Odd time signatures are a problem. Now, I like the idea of having the tempo of the hr-16 vary slightly (by setting the time with tapping the JM). It would seem that option #1 would be the way to go. Now the question is- am I deluded? Will this work? and more importantly- has anyone here done this (considering the midi prowess of those on the list here, I would think that (if this is possible) many of you guys have. Does anyone else out there still use the HR-16 at all, or in this type of rig in particular? Trevor PS: Kim Flint (a rock and roll name if there ever was one) is the cat's pajamas. From ???@??? Thu Apr 23 09:30:30 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 23 09:09:09 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0ySOYZ-00043W-00; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:09:03 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980422204630.006adc24@mail.utexas.edu> References: <000C318A.----@wj.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: klaw@iglou.com Subject: Re: KLAW... pedals..dj Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 12:03:24 -0400 Resent-Message-ID: <"Ck5-tD.A.9GD.RZ2P1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5228 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:09:03 -0700 X-UIDL: 1b8aa2fd0e41b1d0f5b4b32f5393f193 >ever run a mixer through a pedal for djing? > >(; >Mjh Absolutely, a number of them actualiy. Do you do this? K LAW From ???@??? Thu Apr 23 20:14:49 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 23 12:56:19 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0ySS6T-0000bA-00; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 12:56:17 -0700 Sender: r_t_cummings@csi.com Message-ID: <353F9C81.56038235@csi.com> Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 21:54:41 +0200 From: Cummings X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Tortoise References: <199804221459_MC2-3AA9-F19F@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qneXpB.A.aOH.du5P1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5231 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 12:56:17 -0700 X-UIDL: 313d1efb0a4fd3ef7c41096efd937a04 I agree, in fact I wanted to ask if anyone else had heard "TNT" yet and noticed some of the looping. But in their case, I believe that the looping is a result of messing around with hard disk recording. Has anyone seen them live? I know that they're notoriously introverted on stage but do they actually use loopers live? Rob Dave wrote: > > Also, the new Tortoise disc "TNT" uses some fairly subtle looping. > > ________________________________________________________ > Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ From ???@??? Thu Apr 23 20:15:10 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 23 15:07:05 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0ySU8w-00000g-00; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 15:06:58 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980423220223.00e10bf4@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 15:02:23 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: drum machines and looping Resent-Message-ID: <"3TBbsB.A.awG.kp7P1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5233 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 15:06:58 -0700 X-UIDL: b65fbd8a4b19bfeb1b2524afb03b5b04 At 04:53 PM 4/23/98 +0100, you wrote: >Thinking about bringing the old HR-16 out of retirement. Now, I could be wrong >here but: > >1) I am under the impression that one can, with a JamMan, have the old beast >drive the midi time to the drum machine > >2) I am also under the impression that one can have the looper slave to the >drum machine and have the loop lengths determined by the length of the drum >loop, but: > > a) the JamMan will occassionally pop because the audio loop is not >sample accurate in relation to the HR16. > > b) Odd time signatures are a problem. > >Now, I like the idea of having the tempo of the hr-16 vary slightly (by setting >the time with tapping the JM). It would seem that option #1 would be the way to >go. > >Now the question is- am I deluded? Will this work? and more importantly- has >anyone here done this (considering the midi prowess of those on the list here, I >would think that (if this is possible) many of you guys have. Does anyone else >out there still use the HR-16 at all, or in this type of rig in particular? well, I don't use a jamman of course, but it happens I still use an HR-16! (HR-16B, actually, which had a different sample set...) I primarily use it for the sort of thing you are talking about, as a way to generate and receive midi clock in conjuction with the echoplexes. It's worked flawlessly for me in that role for a long time. (in fact, that's what I used to test midi clock sync on the echoplex....) I especially like that I can use the slider control for tempo adjust, as well as the arrow buttons, and the nicely backlit display tells me the BPM. Very handy for setting tempos to other devices, and the midi clock tempo seems to remain very stable. I'll probably keep mine around forever just for that purpose. When it's receiving clock it works great, locks right into the tempo defined by the loop. It's really nice to play something into the loop and have the drum machine jump right in at the correct tempo, with minimal effort on my part. Too bad realy drummers don't do that. :-) The samples are kinda limited, of course, but if you use the tuning to shift them way out of their range, and maybe play around with distortion, eq, or other effects on the different outputs, you can get some pretty interesting results. Having four outputs is nice, too. >PS: Kim Flint (a rock and roll name if there ever was one) I'm clearly missing my rock star calling.... >is the cat's pajamas. hey, I don't even have a cat! kim ________________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 Mpact System Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Thu Apr 23 20:15:13 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 23 15:25:19 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0ySUQd-0002HY-00; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 15:25:15 -0700 Message-ID: <353FBFEF.C969D7F8@bellsouth.net> Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 18:25:51 -0400 From: J&M Duke Reply-To: jmar@bellsouth.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nyfac2@nyfac.com CC: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: drum machines and looping References: <3.0.5.32.19980422203829.007b6df0@wavefront.com> <353F63EC.26F29823@nyfac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"91iagD.A.tPB.b47P1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5234 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 15:25:15 -0700 X-UIDL: 9b0b5a39fbe12c140fc1814a327927fb Heh, I plead guilty!I use the HR-16 as the* brain*in my setup.I have an 8x8 Ensonic midi mixer and I run all the midi ins and outs of my Jamman,old Yamaha seqencer, keyboard,etc. and a Roland TR-626 drum machine that I use for its ability to put out a +5 v. pulse when you program a click.This I use to control my Digitech 7.6 which can be run on control voltage.I can get 2 or more bars going depending on tempo. The Jamguy is totally different.Your right about the ability to master or slave,however it always seems stiff to me and I get glitches frequently when used like this.Either way. If the tap tempo echo section had a hold I would use that.It's not midi though! When the Jammer is in midi sync you have no control via tapping. I am very interested in anybody else's take on this. Jeff tdbajus wrote: > Thinking about bringing the old HR-16 out of retirement. Now, I could be wrong > here but: > > 1) I am under the impression that one can, with a JamMan, have the old beast > drive the midi time to the drum machine > > 2) I am also under the impression that one can have the looper slave to the > drum machine and have the loop lengths determined by the length of the drum > loop, but: > > a) the JamMan will occassionally pop because the audio loop is not > sample accurate in relation to the HR16. > > b) Odd time signatures are a problem. > > Now, I like the idea of having the tempo of the hr-16 vary slightly (by setting > the time with tapping the JM). It would seem that option #1 would be the way to > go. > > Now the question is- am I deluded? Will this work? and more importantly- has > anyone here done this (considering the midi prowess of those on the list here, I > would think that (if this is possible) many of you guys have. Does anyone else > out there still use the HR-16 at all, or in this type of rig in particular? > > Trevor > > PS: Kim Flint (a rock and roll name if there ever was one) is the cat's pajamas. From ???@??? Thu Apr 23 20:15:16 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 23 15:41:28 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0ySUgD-0004Jh-00; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 15:41:21 -0700 Message-ID: <353FC38F.BF4EEF45@bellsouth.net> Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 18:41:19 -0400 From: J&M Duke Reply-To: jmar@bellsouth.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nyfac2@nyfac.com CC: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: drum machines and looping References: <3.0.5.32.19980422203829.007b6df0@wavefront.com> <353F63EC.26F29823@nyfac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ZmRbtC.A.EID.TH8P1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5235 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 15:41:21 -0700 X-UIDL: 63279f556c9631dbfd4ea50883ea1179 Also I seem to remember that I could'nt get the start, stop to start and end both in sync.This when the Jam Man is the boss and the HR-16 is the slave unit. Jeff tdbajus wrote: > Thinking about bringing the old HR-16 out of retirement. Now, I could be wrong > here but: > > 1) I am under the impression that one can, with a JamMan, have the old beast > drive the midi time to the drum machine > > 2) I am also under the impression that one can have the looper slave to the > drum machine and have the loop lengths determined by the length of the drum > loop, but: > > a) the JamMan will occassionally pop because the audio loop is not > sample accurate in relation to the HR16. > > b) Odd time signatures are a problem. > > Now, I like the idea of having the tempo of the hr-16 vary slightly (by setting > the time with tapping the JM). It would seem that option #1 would be the way to > go. > > Now the question is- am I deluded? Will this work? and more importantly- has > anyone here done this (considering the midi prowess of those on the list here, I > would think that (if this is possible) many of you guys have. Does anyone else > out there still use the HR-16 at all, or in this type of rig in particular? > > Trevor > > PS: Kim Flint (a rock and roll name if there ever was one) is the cat's pajamas. From ???@??? Thu Apr 23 20:15:19 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 23 16:18:36 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0ySVGB-0000Vt-00; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 16:18:31 -0700 Message-Id: <353FCB6D.1539@mdbs.com> Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 18:14:53 -0500 From: "Dennis W. Leas" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; U) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Hello and Help Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3dEFPB.A.-RH.Bt8P1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5236 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 16:18:31 -0700 X-UIDL: d7f1bab0be17d7556c8c431ef9870fa3 Hello, All! I'm a new subscriber though a long-term looper. I live in Lafayette, Indiana and am primarily a percussionist (strictly acoustic instruments) although I play a few non-percussion instruments as well. I recently acquired a second Oberheim 'Plex with several goals in mind: 1) stereo looping 2) simultaneous unsynchronized loops 3) synchronized loops I'm having problems with number three. I've read through the information on Looper's Delight regarding synchronizing. I have the two loopers connected with a midi cable, one is set to SYNC out, 1/8s per beat to 1; the other is set to SYNC in, 1/8s per beat to 8 (though I've tried all the values). The two loopers mostly synchronize how I imagine they would, i.e., they mostly do what I want. However, sometimes they don't. For example, after building up a pattern in the master looper (via, record, overdub, multiply, nextloop-multiply, etc.) I want to record my first pattern into the slave. I want an integral number of the slave loops to fit into the master loop. Diagramatically, master loop: begin |---------------------------------------| end slave loop: begin |---------| end so that, as they play together: master loop: |---------------------------------------| slave loop: |---------|---------|---------|---------| and we all make beautiful music together... :) If I perform only simple operations on the master, this seems to work. When I build up a loop in a more complicated fashion, I can't get the units to synchronize. HELP! I can't find enough details to figure out what is going on. - Dennis Leas From ???@??? Thu Apr 23 20:15:22 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 23 16:28:27 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0ySVPe-0001r0-00; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 16:28:18 -0700 Message-ID: <353FCCDA.F65DD148@mediaone.net> Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 19:20:58 -0400 From: innerspace@mediaone.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en]C-MOEMW (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Tortoise References: <199804221459_MC2-3AA9-F19F@compuserve.com> <353F9C81.56038235@csi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"nglT4C.A.Rz.fz8P1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5237 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 16:28:18 -0700 X-UIDL: 7ac479d26aa4bbf2fe465a1628ae2ddf I'm betting their utilizing samples and sequencers, drum machines more than looping gear specifically, but it does loop now, doesn't it, so what is looping gear anyhow? Cummings wrote: > I agree, in fact I wanted to ask if anyone else had heard "TNT" yet and > noticed some of the looping. But in their case, I believe that the > looping is a result of messing around with hard disk recording. Has > anyone seen them live? I know that they're notoriously introverted on > stage but do they actually use loopers live? > > Rob > > Dave wrote: > > > > Also, the new Tortoise disc "TNT" uses some fairly subtle looping. > > > > ________________________________________________________ > > Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org  : www.peak.org/~improv/   From ???@??? Thu Apr 23 20:15:24 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 23 16:33:53 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0ySVUy-0002bj-00; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 16:33:48 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980423182647.006af1c8@mail.utexas.edu> X-Sender: esker@mail.utexas.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 18:26:47 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthew hahn Subject: Re: KLAW... pedals..dj In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.19980422204630.006adc24@mail.utexas.edu> <000C318A.----@wj.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"EZlNz.A.QVB.b38P1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5238 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 16:33:48 -0700 X-UIDL: 135ea8767232509e73f873744b6f2d30 At 12:03 PM 23-04-98 -0400, you wrote: >>ever run a mixer through a pedal for djing? >Absolutely, a number of them actualiy. Do you do this? K LAW Contemplated.. haven't had time for, has always seemed to me an excellent idea. If you don't mind my asking what you do with it? I mean how live would you handle? I have yet to pull my pedals for delay out of the toolbox, I wonder what that would do? (; From ???@??? Fri Apr 24 09:12:11 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 23 21:37:56 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0ySaFE-0005LT-00; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 21:37:52 -0700 Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 00:31:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Adam Levin To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Baltimore gets loopy... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"pVhlFD.A.bXE.9XBQ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5239 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 21:37:52 -0700 X-UIDL: b8304ff25ee6b8b83687dc80caeff0dd May 2nd - Projekct Two Venue: Bohagers @ 515 South Eden St. May 14th - The Dark Aether Project w/ Always Almost Venue: E. J. Bugs @ 702 South Broadway St May 28th - The Dark Aether Project w/ Uncle Gut Venue: Cafe Tattoo @ 4825 Belair Rd Jun 11th - The Dark Aether Project w/ Emerald Tiers Venue: E. J. Bugs @ 702 South Broadway St Jul 18th - The Dark Aether Project w/ Always Almost & Grey Eye Glances Venue: Cafe Tattoo @ 4825 Belair Rd Sep 12th - The Dark Aether Project w/ A Piedi Nudi & Par Lindh Project Venue: Orion Sound Studios @ 2903 Whittington Avenue -Adam --- "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue, out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one becomes a Hearer." - Chandrakirti T h e D a r k A e t h e r P r o j e c t http://www.ari.net/prog/bands/dap/ From ???@??? Fri Apr 24 09:12:21 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 24 01:16:07 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0ySdeM-0007Ni-00; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 01:16:02 -0700 Message-Id: <199804240807.BAA11756@rendition.com> X-Sender: john@bedrock.rendition.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 00:06:43 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: John Recker Subject: "Acid" from Sonic Foundary Resent-Message-ID: <"AXt9rD.A.v4F.JiEQ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5240 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 01:16:02 -0700 X-UIDL: bf594cdff332cf18818b3b777856106e Hi. I'm new to this mailing list, although I've been interested in looping for awhile (David Torn being my initial and probably still primary influence in this direction). I've recently been doing some research into using a computer as a looping device, downloading a myriad of demos of various sound editors, mixers, etc... I ran across the following on the Sound Foundary www site (http://www.sfoundry.com/Acid/default.html): Available soon from Sonic Foundryú! Introducing ACIDú a break-through loop-based music production tool from Sonic Foundryú. With loop-arranging and editing, ACIDú gives musicians unprecedented creative flexibility. Just imagine working with hundreds of ACID's cutting-edge loops or bringing in your own audio samples to create custom music in minutes. ACIDú allows you to preview any loop before adding it to your mix, automatically matching the tempo and key in real time. Click-and-drag to easily add or delete loops. ACIDú allows real-time changes to pitch and tempo to unlimited tracks (based on system RAM). Control the volume, pan, and effect envelopes for each track to create a perfect mix between loops. To add the finishing touches you can apply multiple real-time effects with DirectX Audio Plug-Ins. My impression based on this brief description is that this is more intended as mixer for creating dance style loops, but I was wondering if anyone saw this at NAMM and knew if it had the ability to interactively record and playback loops ala jamman/edp. thanx, jr John Recker Rendition, Inc. john@rendition.com From ???@??? Fri Apr 24 09:12:28 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 24 01:42:44 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0ySe49-0003bc-00; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 01:42:41 -0700 Reply-To: From: "Javier Miranda V." To: Subject: RE: "Acid" from Sonic Foundary Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 01:30:42 -0700 Message-ID: <000501bd6f5b$4da66720$3201d1d1@electra> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <199804240807.BAA11756@rendition.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"hsl_N.A.6wB.A3EQ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5242 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 01:42:41 -0700 X-UIDL: 48d298c9a3816dd797e3ab64964ae59e I'm buying this thing a.s.a.p. myself. I intend to use it by recording loops "live" with my guitar synthesisers, keyboards, etc., as you say, a la Jamman + Echoplex. This is one cool program. Acid is cool. Javier Miranda Berkeley, CA -----Original Message----- From: John Recker [mailto:john@rendition.com] Sent: Friday, April 24, 1998 1:07 AM To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: "Acid" from Sonic Foundary I ran across the following on the Sound Foundary www site (http://www.sfoundry.com/Acid/default.html): My impression based on this brief description is that this is more intended as mixer for creating dance style loops, but I was wondering if anyone saw this at NAMM and knew if it had the ability to interactively record and playback loops ala jamman/edp. thanx, jr John Recker Rendition, Inc. john@rendition.com From ???@??? Fri Apr 24 09:12:27 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 24 01:42:14 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0ySe3e-0003WP-00; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 01:42:10 -0700 From: "Jesse Kudler" To: Subject: Dream Syndicate Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 04:34:57 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd6f5b$dcfb3680$714c8581@jkudler.stu.wesleyan.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"khGLTC.A.EvB.z2EQ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5241 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 01:42:10 -0700 X-UIDL: 2bb11e14dc0f58d5639836101e69b7e5 Actually, the Dream Syndicate was Tony Conrad's band with Lamonte Young, John Cale, and others. Hence "Outside the Dream Syndicate" for Conrad's record with Faust. The mid-80's (?) L.A. band was the second to use the name. -Jesse -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Zwicky To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Thursday, April 23, 1998 2:05 PM Subject: Re: Current Listening, once againnnnn... >I was just reading a book called "Rock Names" about the origin of band's >names. >"The Dream Sydicate" got there name from a Tony Conrad album...... > >At 04:05 PM 4/21/98 -0700, you wrote: >>Dave Trenkel wrote... >>So, I'm currently listening to what has to be the sickest loop CD I've >>heard in ages: Tony Conrad's Early Minimalism. 4 discs of overdubbed, >>looped, atonal violin drones. the piece "Four Violins" was recorded in >>1964, and it's 32 minutes of multitracked overdriven harmonics, sharp >>enough to peel paint at moderate volume. Fantastic stuff! >> >>MB: Wow Dave. Pretty tricky of you to take this in another direction. Do you >>have kids? Can you say redirect? >> >>I forget who mentioned it but the Czukay/Walker disc "Clash" is pretty >cool. Not >>my usual listening, but disc 2 is really interesting. Are there any >guitarist >>types doing this sort of thing? In dance clubs? Any suggestions would be >most >>welcome. >> >>I also have been listening to the Nels Cline Trio, "Ground" and that's a >nice >>blend of straight ahead free jazz, with a heavy dose of Sonic Youth style >noise >>injection. Nels and Thurston Moore also have a disc out called "The Pillow >Wand" >>which is also interesting for aggressive ambience types. >> >>I listen to Terje Rypdal "EOS" (duo with cellist David Darling) at least two >>times a week... >> >> -Miko >> >> >> > > From ???@??? Fri Apr 24 09:12:50 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 24 07:29:37 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0ySjTi-000517-00; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 07:29:26 -0700 Message-ID: <354058C9.43DA96C8@nyfac.com> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:18:01 +0100 From: tdbajus Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: [Fwd: drum machines and looping] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------E3E6A4EBE4DEA5687049C83B" Resent-Message-ID: <"vKKMoB.A.4wC.56JQ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5243 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 07:29:26 -0700 X-UIDL: f0409f11c7a5f4db3f33ab501f0aae4f Received: from hotmail.com (f166.hotmail.com [207.82.251.52]) by mail2.panix.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/PanixM1.3) with SMTP id IAA00708 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 08:42:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 5316 invoked by uid 0); 24 Apr 1998 12:40:14 -0000 Message-ID: <19980424124014.5315.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.94.66.242 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 05:40:13 PDT X-Originating-IP: [207.94.66.242] From: "Matt Rowe" To: nyfac2@nyfac.com Subject: Re: drum machines and looping Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 05:40:13 PDT >Thinking about bringing the old HR-16 out of retirement. Now, I could be wrong >here but: > >1) I am under the impression that one can, with a JamMan, have the old beast >drive the midi time to the drum machine woohoo! another HR-16 user. i bought mine new, many years ago, when i was in high school. the interface really defined how i approach sequencing. and i still use it often. i'm a EDP user, for almost a week now (thanks again to those on this list who helped me out with that purchase), so i haven't gotten around to midi sync-ing yet, but this is something i'm definately looking foward to trying. i'll have to root around to find my HR-16 manual to see what it needs, as far as clock information. i'm fairly certain that it's relatively easy to sync anything from the HR-16. i haven't actually done it yet, but it shouldn't require much more than actually plugging in the midi cable and setting a few parameters. > >2) I am also under the impression that one can have the looper slave to the >drum machine and have the loop lengths determined by the length of the drum >loop, but: this may be a bit hairier, because of the reasons you state. you'd also have a closed loop of midi cables, which could cause problems. > > a) the JamMan will occassionally pop because the audio loop is not >sample accurate in relation to the HR16. > > b) Odd time signatures are a problem. > >Now, I like the idea of having the tempo of the hr-16 vary slightly (by setting >the time with tapping the JM). It would seem that option #1 would be the way to >go. i really like the sliders on the HR-16. you can use these to vary tempo... but this isn't exactly what you're looking for. > >Now the question is- am I deluded? is this relevant to _this_ discussion group? > Will this work? option 1 should work easily. i'm not too familiar with the jamman, or the midi time code that the HR-16 outputs. you'll have to read through manuals *yikes*. > and more importantly- has >anyone here done this (considering the midi prowess of those on the list here, I >would think that (if this is possible) many of you guys have. i'll most certainly attempt this in the upcoming week or so. i'll report back. matt ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Fri Apr 24 09:12:53 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 24 07:41:10 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0ySjey-0006rv-00; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 07:41:04 -0700 Message-ID: <35405B05.F749C91@nyfac.com> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:27:34 +0100 From: tdbajus Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: the astounding number of HR-16 users Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"nuBs.A.FNE.2DKQ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5244 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 07:41:04 -0700 X-UIDL: 9f0e556bd2e0a33d851fc03873c19fa3 Anybody use the HR-16 and the HR-16b together? Trevor From ???@??? Sat Apr 25 01:06:09 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 24 16:18:40 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0ySrjj-0006jX-00; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:18:31 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 17:31:16 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: Re: Celestial Goings On Resent-Message-ID: <"XyRpfC.A.KkE.xrRQ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5261 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:18:31 -0700 X-UIDL: 439cc247649b0ef8175d5bbd410fd386 On 4/24/98 the esteemed Paul Mimlitsch wrote: > Sat. April 25th. 8:00 pm - 10:00pm at the Celestial Cafe, Taunton Forge > Center, Medford, N.J. (609) 596-7098. "Explorations in Time and Space"-an > evening of Soundscapes and Improvisations w/Paul Mimlitsch (Chapman > Stick¨/Loops) and Jody Janetta ("Painterly" Percussion). Thanks. - Paul I would urge everyone with a reasonable drive to attend this gig. They were wonderful in the DC LOOP SHOW last weekend. Paul's ethereal meditative loops and Jody's almost melodic percussion accompaniment were a treat. What a duo. Jody uses a mic to delay his percussion. Stop what your doing and get over to the Celestial Cafe. Patrick *** *** ** Fingerpaint http://www.his.com/~patrick/FNGP.html *** ** From ???@??? Fri Apr 24 09:12:58 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 24 08:38:07 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0ySkXx-0000Xu-00; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 08:37:53 -0700 Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:23:09 -0600 (CST) From: SOTO VALENCIA ANDRESRODOLFO To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: THE TOP 5! In-Reply-To: <199804240807.BAA11756@rendition.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"yNAwvD.A.0fF.o4KQ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5245 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 08:37:53 -0700 X-UIDL: 5f485c8b6ec37271c1c1dd2b76bac1e8 Hi all,smaug from Mexico city here,I've been following this list for a month now,very interesting,but as a newcomer in the looping stuff /only a year/ I have a question,I know this inquire is very subjective but,what loop recordings could be considered as the top 5 of all time to the people of this list? Hope you can tell! From ???@??? Fri Apr 24 11:13:02 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 24 10:46:32 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0ySmYK-0004u3-00; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:46:24 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <354058C9.43DA96C8@nyfac.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:05:46 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: [Fwd: drum machines and looping] Resent-Message-ID: <"pc96tD.A.3cC.WxMQ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5247 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:46:24 -0700 X-UIDL: 29b8e0ded5632e366e8982d810bb39bc >>Thinking about bringing the old HR-16 out of retirement. Now, I could >be wrong >>here but: >> >>1) I am under the impression that one can, with a JamMan, have the >old beast >>drive the midi time to the drum machine > >woohoo! another HR-16 user. i bought mine new, many years ago, when i >was in high school. the interface really defined how i approach >sequencing. and i still use it often. > >i'm a EDP user, for almost a week now (thanks again to those on this >list who helped me out with that purchase), so i haven't gotten around >to midi sync-ing yet, but this is something i'm definately looking >foward to trying. i'll have to root around to find my HR-16 manual to >see what it needs, as far as clock information. > >i'm fairly certain that it's relatively easy to sync anything from the >HR-16. i haven't actually done it yet, but it shouldn't require much >more than actually plugging in the midi cable and setting a few >parameters. It's very easy to sync the HR-16. You just set the clock to receive or transmit, depending which you are doing. The HR-16 uses start/stop song messages too, so if you are receiving clock and can send start song, it will come in on time. The echoplex will send a start song when you create a loop, so the hr-16 will start right up in time. Not sure if the jamman does that. It's a very handy feature. >> >>2) I am also under the impression that one can have the looper slave >to the >>drum machine and have the loop lengths determined by the length of the >drum >>loop, but: > >this may be a bit hairier, because of the reasons you state. you'd also >have a closed loop of midi cables, which could cause problems. nah, its very simple to set up. With the echoplex you just set sync=in, and connect drum machine midi out to echoplex midi in, set drum machine clock to transmit. That's it, no closed loop midi or anything. I imagine jamman is similar. Then you just start the drum machine. The echoplex receives the clock and flashes it's sync LED in time with the pattern. (depending on how you set the 8th/beat parameter, which lets you do odd time signatures....). You tap record, plex waits for next sync point to come along. Sync point comes (usually the beginning of the measure) and the echoplex starts recording. You go on recording as long as you want, and tap record again, and the echoplex stops recording at the next sync point. So it captures a very accurate loop length aligned with the measures in the drum pattern. From there, it tracks the midi clock and keeps things in sync. I imagine jamman is similarly straightforward to do this? The echoplex doesn't seem to pop the way jamman users complain about, probably because we spent quite some time trying to prevent that..... this is the way I usually work with the echoplex, since I like having the sequencer master all the clocks and the other stuff follow that. >>Now, I like the idea of having the tempo of the hr-16 vary slightly (by >setting >>the time with tapping the JM). It would seem that option #1 would be >the way to >>go. > >i really like the sliders on the HR-16. you can use these to vary >tempo... but this isn't exactly what you're looking for. if you change the clock tempo to the HR-16, it happily follows. In fact, it can happily follow into amazing extremes of fast/slow.... So you should be able to retap the tempo if the jamman is the clock master. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Fri Apr 24 11:13:03 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 24 10:47:05 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0ySmYr-0004yx-00; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:46:57 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199804240807.BAA11756@rendition.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:18:46 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: "Acid" from Sonic Foundary Resent-Message-ID: <"swdcsC.A.KeC.exMQ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5248 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:46:57 -0700 X-UIDL: 7711fc069969d0d4b8ec5ddbe4f5714a At 12:06 AM -0800 4/24/98, John Recker wrote: >I ran across the following on the Sound Foundary www site >(http://www.sfoundry.com/Acid/default.html): > > Available soon from Sonic Foundryú! > > Introducing ACIDú >My impression based on this brief description is that this is more intended as >mixer for creating dance style loops, I think it is mostly dance oriented. the name "ACID" should give that away. :-) I'm sure you could warp it to other uses, though. >but I was wondering if anyone saw this >at NAMM and knew if it had the ability to interactively record and playback >loops ala jamman/edp. > don't know, but wouldn't the audio path latencies on the PC make this kinda hard? Nice thing about the hardware loopers is that all they do is move audio data around, so the latency is unnoticably small. (1-2 ms). With today's PCs the latency is far greater than that (20-300+ms?), so I would guess that real-time looping applications wouldn't work so well. Maybe if you just do very droney ambient stuff that doesn't require much rhythmic accuracy. When Microsoft gets around to releasing DirectMusic for win98, they will supposedly cut the latency to 10ms, which is still not that great (and indicates they still don't have a clue about real-time apps...) but much better than now. Macs aren't much better..... You probably need an SGI.... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Fri Apr 24 11:13:04 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 24 10:49:59 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0ySmbd-0005NC-00; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:49:49 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Ott, John" To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: THE TOP 5! Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 12:32:36 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Resent-Message-ID: <"Gajy2B.A.G2C.xzMQ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5249 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:49:49 -0700 X-UIDL: 6a628afab0e336a25f662195ba392648 In no particular order Eno/Fripp "Evening Star" - beautifully hypnotic, perfect for curing headaches. David Torn "Tripping over God" -- David always amazes me, I dig all his stuff. Robert Fripp "A Blessing of Tears" -- Fripp's best loops IMHO Michael Brook "Cobalt Blue" -- also check out the live versions on "Live at the Aquarium" (if you can find it) Daniel Lanois "Sling Blade" soundtrack -- only 3 or 4 songs have loops but this is good stuff If I had to pick one influence on my looping it would be Eno, but all these guys have opened my ears and mind to the possibilities of looping. I did not mention the g-word once. later John > ---------- > From: SOTO VALENCIA ANDRESRODOLFO > Reply To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Sent: Friday, April 24, 1998 10:28 AM > To: John_Ott@ATK.COM > Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Subject: THE TOP 5! > > > Hi all,smaug from Mexico city here,I've been following this list > for a > month now,very interesting,but as a newcomer in the looping stuff > /only a > year/ I have a question,I know this inquire is very subjective > but,what > loop recordings could be considered as the top 5 of all time to the > people of this list? > > Hope you can tell! > From ???@??? Sat Apr 25 01:05:41 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 24 12:40:46 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0ySoKn-00062b-00; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 12:40:33 -0700 Sender: r_t_cummings@csi.com Message-ID: <3540DA8E.C3EEEE0B@csi.com> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 20:31:42 +0200 From: Cummings X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers Delight Subject: Re: "Acid" from Sonic Foundary References: <199804240435_MC2-3AC5-37AA@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"mpLTkB.A.RoD.ibOQ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5252 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 12:40:33 -0700 X-UIDL: 45fda1121b0a583efbb17462f3862df7 What about the program Sound Forge itself? Isn't that more of a real "editor"? How would you compare Sound Forge to other affordable Windows sound editors like Cakewalk and CuBase? Rob Javier wrote: > I'm buying this thing a.s.a.p. myself. I intend to use it by recording loops "live" with my guitar synthesisers, keyboards, etc., as you say, a la Jamman + Echoplex. > > This is one cool program. Acid is cool. > > Javier Miranda > Berkeley, CA > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Recker [mailto:john@rendition.com] > Sent: Friday, April 24, 1998 1:07 AM > To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Subject: "Acid" from Sonic Foundary > > I ran across the following on the Sound Foundary www site > (http://www.sfoundry.com/Acid/default.html): > > My impression based on this brief description is that this is more intended as > mixer for creating dance style loops, but I was wondering if anyone saw this > at NAMM and knew if it had the ability to interactively record and playback > loops ala jamman/edp. > > thanx, > > jr > > John Recker > Rendition, Inc. > john@rendition.com From ???@??? Sat Apr 25 01:05:31 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 24 12:01:26 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0ySnio-0000ia-00; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 12:01:18 -0700 From: KRosser414 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 14:49:44 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: THE TOP 5! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Resent-Message-ID: <"rR9QAB.A.qeG.17NQ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5250 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 12:01:18 -0700 X-UIDL: bea5a45c58b1c0239f04f2a3b3aa59d3 In a message dated 98-04-24 11:30:34 EDT, you write: << Hi all,smaug from Mexico city here,I've been following this list for a month now,very interesting,but as a newcomer in the looping stuff /only a year/ I have a question,I know this inquire is very subjective but,what loop recordings could be considered as the top 5 of all time to the people of this list? >> Thanks for pointing out ahead of time that this is all subjective... These folks have done a number of things with loops that I could have picked but the standouts to me are: Joni Mitchell - The Wolf That Lives In Lindsey (from Mingus) The Beatles - Tomorrow Never Knows (from Revolver) Bill Frisell - Power Tools (just about anything on it...) David Torn - What Means Solid...(particularly title tune) Daniel Lanois - Sling Blade soundtrack If I can add things that were played in real time of a loop-like nature, as someone else has, I'd add: Miles Davis - On The Corner Steve Reich - Tehellim Not sure whether they'd be included in this, but two of my favorite records with lots of sampled & looped grooves are: Public Enemy - Fear Of A Black Planet MeShell N'degeocello - Peace Beyond Passion Weather Report used to do some things with repetetive sequenced parts, such as In Pursuit Of The Woman In The Feathered Hat from Mr. Gone that I thought were very cool. That particular one has an ostinato line that comes in with the groove and changes timbre as different layers are piled on. Ken R From ???@??? Sat Apr 25 01:05:39 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 24 12:31:06 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0ySoBW-0004lD-00; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 12:30:58 -0700 Message-ID: <3540E539.2360E710@Pirnie.com> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 15:17:13 -0400 From: "Lee Wordsman" Reply-To: Lwordsman@Pirnie.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: THE TOP 5! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"UU0yQC.A.HnC.WUOQ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5251 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 12:30:58 -0700 X-UIDL: d206a36402f10f5c663f56147e6c94d7 I've been participating for over 6 months and this is the first time that I've heard anyone mention " Tomorrow never knows". It's one of the few beatles songs that I can remember hearing for the first time and thinking "wow, this is totally different". There was some talk about what got people into looping a while back and I'd have to say that on a sort of subconscious level hearing that song moved me in this direction. KRosser414 wrote: > In a message dated 98-04-24 11:30:34 EDT, you write: > > << Hi all,smaug from Mexico city here,I've been following this list for a > month now,very interesting,but as a newcomer in the looping stuff /only a > year/ I have a question,I know this inquire is very subjective but,what > loop recordings could be considered as the top 5 of all time to the > people of this list? >> > > Thanks for pointing out ahead of time that this is all subjective... > > These folks have done a number of things with loops that I could have picked > but the standouts to me are: > > Joni Mitchell - The Wolf That Lives In Lindsey (from Mingus) > The Beatles - Tomorrow Never Knows (from Revolver) > Bill Frisell - Power Tools (just about anything on it...) > David Torn - What Means Solid...(particularly title tune) > Daniel Lanois - Sling Blade soundtrack > > If I can add things that were played in real time of a loop-like nature, as > someone else has, I'd add: > > Miles Davis - On The Corner > Steve Reich - Tehellim > > Not sure whether they'd be included in this, but two of my favorite records > with lots of sampled & looped grooves are: > > Public Enemy - Fear Of A Black Planet > MeShell N'degeocello - Peace Beyond Passion > > Weather Report used to do some things with repetetive sequenced parts, such as > In Pursuit Of The Woman In The Feathered Hat from Mr. Gone that I thought were > very cool. That particular one has an ostinato line that comes in with the > groove and changes timbre as different layers are piled on. > > Ken R From ???@??? Sat Apr 25 01:05:43 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 24 12:43:09 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0ySoND-0006Nt-00; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 12:43:03 -0700 Message-ID: <003e01bd6fb7$62c025e0$c2b854ce@mark.asisoftware.com> From: Mark@asisoftware.com (Mark Kata) To: "Loopers Delight" , Subject: Re: THE TOP 5! Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 15:30:05 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"QuMB5B.A.o9D.-dOQ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5253 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 12:43:03 -0700 X-UIDL: e89c4e5057d1df5197e5eafa46c4a81a Check out the demo version of "TNK" on the Beatles Anthology 2. The loop is even more apparent than on the officially released version on the "Revolver" album. Mark Kata Mark@asisoftware.com -----Original Message----- From: Lee Wordsman To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Friday, April 24, 1998 3:24 PM Subject: Re: THE TOP 5! >I've been participating for over 6 months and this is the first time that I've >heard anyone mention " Tomorrow never knows". It's one of the few beatles songs >that I can remember hearing for the first time and thinking "wow, this is totally >different". There was some talk about what got people into looping a while back >and I'd have to say that on a sort of subconscious level hearing that song moved >me in this direction. > >KRosser414 wrote: > >> In a message dated 98-04-24 11:30:34 EDT, you write: >> >> << Hi all,smaug from Mexico city here,I've been following this list for a >> month now,very interesting,but as a newcomer in the looping stuff /only a >> year/ I have a question,I know this inquire is very subjective but,what >> loop recordings could be considered as the top 5 of all time to the >> people of this list? >> >> >> Thanks for pointing out ahead of time that this is all subjective... >> >> These folks have done a number of things with loops that I could have picked >> but the standouts to me are: >> >> Joni Mitchell - The Wolf That Lives In Lindsey (from Mingus) >> The Beatles - Tomorrow Never Knows (from Revolver) >> Bill Frisell - Power Tools (just about anything on it...) >> David Torn - What Means Solid...(particularly title tune) >> Daniel Lanois - Sling Blade soundtrack >> >> If I can add things that were played in real time of a loop-like nature, as >> someone else has, I'd add: >> >> Miles Davis - On The Corner >> Steve Reich - Tehellim >> >> Not sure whether they'd be included in this, but two of my favorite records >> with lots of sampled & looped grooves are: >> >> Public Enemy - Fear Of A Black Planet >> MeShell N'degeocello - Peace Beyond Passion >> >> Weather Report used to do some things with repetetive sequenced parts, such as >> In Pursuit Of The Woman In The Feathered Hat from Mr. Gone that I thought were >> very cool. That particular one has an ostinato line that comes in with the >> groove and changes timbre as different layers are piled on. >> >> Ken R > > > > From ???@??? Sat Apr 25 01:05:50 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 24 13:39:29 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0ySpFh-0006vj-00; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 13:39:21 -0700 Reply-To: From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: RE: "Acid" from Sonic Foundary Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 13:25:44 -0700 Message-ID: <000301bd6fbf$297df840$6e22dacf@earthlight> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <3540DA8E.C3EEEE0B@csi.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"5oIFQD.A.40E.iWPQ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5254 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 13:39:21 -0700 X-UIDL: f59b5f410402d6edbc79ac3c80ccde88 I have to toss my hat in for CoolEdit Pro, which I've been using to produce all my work since 1994, when it was CoolEdit, and I downloaded it for free. The registration was $29.95! I think I can do just about anything that expensive hardware/software systems I've seen do, and haven't had a problem with it or its producers, (tossing in my own plug) Syntrillium (http://www.syntrillium.com). Kim, I thought it was bad manners to promote products here via Cut-and-Paste. :) Stephen Goodman * It's The Loop Of The Week! EarthLight Studios * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios From ???@??? Sat Apr 25 01:05:54 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 24 14:06:19 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0ySpff-00030M-00; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 14:06:11 -0700 From: MIvanBerk Message-ID: <2f3c0d6.3540fb43@aol.com> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:51:14 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: "Acid" from Sonic Foundary/Sound Forge Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 85 Resent-Message-ID: <"JuiYG.A.n9.0tPQ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5255 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 14:06:11 -0700 X-UIDL: a1ea62156752a3d628aa72a871510d3e Sound Forge isn't a multitrack editor like the other software packages mentioned. It's just a stereo waveform editor, though pretty powerful (it's nice for converting file formats, for instance) From ???@??? Sat Apr 25 01:05:57 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 24 14:49:12 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0ySqL8-00012W-00; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 14:49:02 -0700 From: KRosser414 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 17:33:51 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: THE TOP 5! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Resent-Message-ID: <"LvDtMD.A.cgG.PWQQ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5256 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 14:49:02 -0700 X-UIDL: 78acb935ea1740221931823d898bbff7 In a message dated 98-04-24 15:23:50 EDT, you write: << I've been participating for over 6 months and this is the first time that I've heard anyone mention " Tomorrow never knows". It's one of the few beatles songs that I can remember hearing for the first time and thinking "wow, this is totally different". There was some talk about what got people into looping a while back and I'd have to say that on a sort of subconscious level hearing that song moved me in this direction. >> Yeah, I've never heard anyone mention it either. Unlike yourself, most of what I heard by the Beatles for the first time rocked my world and continues to knock me out to this day, but this track is a special one to be sure. As I understand it, there were five tape loops employed on five separate reel- to-reel machines being recorded directly onto the master. The loops were manually manipulated by John, Paul, George, Ringo and George Martin simultaneously. I heard recently that this posed some problems when George Martin went back to remix and remaster for the CD reissue, since he could only re-e.q. the master tape, whereas everything else on Revolver he could break down track by track. Since the performance was totally random and there wasn't a single track of just tape loops, it was impossible on TNK. I have to say, this is probably one of my favorite rock & roll tracks of all time - I know it's fashionable to put down Ringo's playing these days but his drum groove on this fuckin' rules, plus a characteristically great vocal by Lennon, what more do you want... Of course, the Beatles got more heavily into tape loops by way of George Martin's interest in musique concrete, such as the 1" tape pieces spliced into loops and used as the background for "Being For The Benefit Of Mr. Kite", and John & Yoko's tape collage "Revolution 9", etc. I think a thread on looping and the Beatles is long overdue here, surely they did a lot to bring tape manipulation and loops into pop music before anyone else (unless you count Les Paul's double-speed guitar overdubs on those old hits with Mary Ford - hey, why not) and used a variety of pretty interesting techniques in their applications. Ken R From ???@??? Sat Apr 25 01:05:58 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 24 14:53:14 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0ySqP5-0001cU-00; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 14:53:07 -0700 Message-Id: <199804242138.OAA07590@rendition.com> X-Sender: john@bedrock.rendition.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 13:37:37 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: John Recker Subject: Re: "Acid" from Sonic Foundary Resent-Message-ID: <"fL71.A.DKH.-aQQ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5257 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 14:53:07 -0700 X-UIDL: df70d2b57bbbfc52bcfdff7b9449779f >don't know, but wouldn't the audio path latencies on the PC make this kinda >hard? Nice thing about the hardware loopers is that all they do is move >audio data around, so the latency is unnoticably small. (1-2 ms). With >today's PCs the latency is far greater than that (20-300+ms?), so I would >guess that real-time looping applications wouldn't work so well. On win95, one can play around with the system timer and generate timer events to a VxD with <3ms latency. Combine this with the new generation of scatter/gather DMA PCI cards (Turtle Beach (www.tbeach.com) will start selling its Montego card next week that seems quite nice: 18bit AD/DA, 16 hardware digital mixers with independant sample rates, 32 voice HW wavetable synthesis for $129), and it seems like it might be possible to write some software that combines the features of the software mixers/Midi sequencers with the looping features of the hardware loopers. I don't know, however, if this can be done through a generic interface such as DirectSound or whether acheiving the low latencies required for this type of application requires sound card specific knowledge. This is probably fairly off topic for this list. I have, however, been thinking of writing some SW of this nature and would be interested in exchanging ideas with anyone that has played around in this space. jr From ???@??? Sat Apr 25 01:06:02 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 24 15:11:56 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0ySqh9-0004HY-00; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 15:11:47 -0700 Message-ID: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD02CA0E3@migarexch01.maritz.com> From: "Liebig, Steuart A." To: "Liebig, Steuart A." , "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: THE TOP 5! Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:58:05 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Resent-Message-ID: <"SgFe7.A.qUC.usQQ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5258 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 15:11:47 -0700 X-UIDL: 204cd30c662529b185a3fcf0bfe58e37 Well . . . what was that album that they did where, if you didn't have an automatic record changer, it just kept playing the same phrase (which I can't remember right now . . . ) over and over and over again in the out grooves? A continous and probably mind altering loop for the time. > Of course, the Beatles got more heavily into tape loops by way of > George > Martin's interest in musique concrete, such as the 1" tape pieces > spliced into > loops and used as the background for "Being For The Benefit Of Mr. > Kite", and > John & Yoko's tape collage "Revolution 9", etc. I think a thread on > looping > and the Beatles is long overdue here, surely they did a lot to bring > tape > manipulation and loops into pop music before anyone else > > Ken R > > > From ???@??? Sat Apr 25 01:06:05 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 24 15:23:33 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0ySqsO-0005ye-00; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 15:23:24 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980424221028.00df41ec@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 15:10:28 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: THE TOP 5! Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Resent-Message-ID: <"sUTUsC.A.U1D.V3QQ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5259 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 15:23:25 -0700 X-UIDL: 71dda8b9101d8932d18d8357ee546316 At 05:33 PM 4/24/98 EDT, KRosser414 wrote: >Of course, the Beatles got more heavily into tape loops by way of George >Martin's interest in musique concrete, such as the 1" tape pieces spliced into >loops and used as the background for "Being For The Benefit Of Mr. Kite", and >John & Yoko's tape collage "Revolution 9", etc. My first-year college roomate was really into the beatles (during a time when that wasn't particularly popular...) and gave me a pretty big dose. "Revolution #9" had a pretty big effect on me. I hadn't heard anything like it before, and it gave me a lot to think about! Certainly one of the first sound-collage type looping pieces I heard. I certainly hadn't realized just how adventurous the Beatles had been with their music. another, similar type of track that I really liked at that time came from an odd source. Steve Vai's "Little Pieces of Seaweed" from an (I think) unreleased album called "Flex-able leftovers". Extrememly warped, funny, and very adventurous track, with some looped sound-collage elements. kim ________________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 Mpact System Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Sat Apr 25 01:06:08 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 24 15:43:25 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0ySrBg-0001A1-00; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 15:43:20 -0700 From: PMimlitsch Message-ID: Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 18:30:38 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, stickwire-l@netcom.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Celestial Goings On Content-type: text/plain X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 84 Resent-Message-ID: <"5DRW3.A.CuG.-KRQ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5260 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 15:43:20 -0700 X-UIDL: b7bfdb3a1662c5216ee26b023279cf8c Sat. April 25th. 8:00 pm - 10:00pm at the Celestial Cafe, Taunton Forge Center, Medford, N.J. (609) 596-7098. "Explorations in Time and Space"-an evening of Soundscapes and Improvisations w/Paul Mimlitsch (Chapman Stick¨/Loops) and Jody Janetta ("Painterly" Percussion). Thanks. - Paul From ???@??? Fri Apr 24 10:30:31 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 24 10:03:11 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0ySlsN-00063L-00; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:03:03 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980424183025.216ff636@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> X-Sender: pycraft@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 18:30:25 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: "Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D." Subject: Re: THE TOP 5! In-Reply-To: References: <199804240807.BAA11756@rendition.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"F53G7.A.QaD.HHMQ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5246 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:03:03 -0700 X-UIDL: 4ec6fbe0988261a461ef97312abdd58c > Hi all,smaug from Mexico city here,I've been following this list for a > month now,very interesting,but as a newcomer in the looping stuff /only a > year/ I have a question,I know this inquire is very subjective but,what > loop recordings could be considered as the top 5 of all time to the > people of this list? Here's my 5: I'd include Dave Torn's "Polytown" and Sylvian& Fripp's "The First Day" for pure examples of using loops for helping the music, not just yelling "Look, I'm looping"; Ed Alleyne-Johnson's "Purple Electric Violin Concerto" for the opposite reason; it's solo violin with 8sec delay to play fugues and it's GORGEOUS; Phillip Glass' "Einstein on the Beach" (or anything else really) to show that you don't need electronic boxes to loop; and finally Matthias Grob's "something something para pensar-se" (pardon my Portugese) to remind everyone just why their EDPs were ever made. Michael [And finally I'd loop Allan Holdsworth's suits to...NO KIM! NOOoooo....!] From ???@??? Sat Apr 25 01:06:35 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 25 00:11:51 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0ySz7g-0003kv-00; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 00:11:44 -0700 Posted-Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 02:01:01 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19980425070008.006aa5dc@mail.visi.com> X-Sender: spat@mail.visi.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 02:00:08 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: spat@visi.com Subject: RE: THE TOP 5! (Beatles) Resent-Message-ID: <"5BFF2B.A.YfB.8oYQ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5262 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 00:11:44 -0700 X-UIDL: 0c1161e2985e8c68e9b0c8b55aada3c3 Steuart L wrote: >Well . . . what was that album that they did where, if you didn't have >an automatic record changer, it just kept playing the same phrase (which >I can't remember right now . . . ) over and over and over again in the >out grooves? >A continous and probably mind altering loop for the time. The loop in question is on the end of the Dr. Pepper album, (not on later pressings) and supposedly if you play it backwards, it says "we'll f**k you like supermen". When a fan pointed this out to Paul, he explained it as just a piece of nonsensical gibberish tacked onto the end of the album, and that listening to it for an extended period of time resulted in a "pure buzz" because of its meaninglessness. However, one of the Beatle books documents that this seemingly random piece of gibberish took several hours to record. The loops for "Tommorrow Never Knows" were recorded by all four at home on their tape recorders. The original title was "The Void", the new title was a Ringoism, ala "A Hard Day's Night". Lennon originally envisioned Tibetian monks chanting on the piece, but that proved to be impractical (the image of a hundred lost monks wandering around London with Beatle wigs comes to mind, asking for directions to Abbey Road studios, while a dosed Lennon awaits impatiently). The song features a vocal by Lennon recorded through a Leslie rotating speaker. He was so enamoured by the doppler effect that he proposed to take it even furthur by being suspended from the ceiling by a rope, so he could be swung in a circle around a microphone while he sang. (BTW, Leslies are tres cool for looping applications.) The Beatles are also credited with the first use of feedback on record ("I Feel Fine") the first use of backward tape recording ("Rain", another superlative example of Ringo's drumming, also his personal favorite example of his abilities)-- all this in a pop context! Lennon is also credited for having coined the term "flanger", although I'm not sure if the Beatles were the first to use this sweeping effect of having two tape recorders playing the same thing, but one being slowed down by pressing a thumb against the tape reel's flange. Exhausted by trivia, Steve From ???@??? Sat Apr 25 01:06:36 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 25 00:32:42 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0ySzRx-00012J-00; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 00:32:41 -0700 Message-ID: <19980425072821.1468.rocketmail@send1a.yahoomail.com> Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 00:28:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Bret Subject: HR-16 and HR-16b To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"uK9jeB.A.vj.YDZQ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5263 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 00:32:41 -0700 X-UIDL: aa42f7b2c50392bbc59207b60caea895 I have and use an HR-16. I record (loop) it analog into the EDP, played real time, no midi connection. When I bought the HR-16 I was under the impression the only difference with the HR-16b were the sampled sounds. I assume these are on the Eprom. I recently asked a local Alesis repair/parts center if I could order and change the Eprom in my HR-16 to the that of the HR-16b, and he said that would not work. Are they truly different internally? Kim, are you going to chastise us for talking too long about the HR-16? If it is any consequence, I am a (originally) a guitar player (well actually flutaphone), so there you go. That must be the root of the problem. That demon seed. I'm talkin bout trouble. That starts with T and that rhymes with EDP, and that stands for Loop pooL. Right here in River City. bret ---tdbajus wrote: > > Anybody use the HR-16 and the HR-16b together? > > Trevor > > > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From ???@??? Sat Apr 25 12:57:37 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 25 08:56:42 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yT7Ji-0002VZ-00; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 08:56:42 -0700 Message-Id: <199804251559.LAA05251@mail.colba.net> From: "Julia & Dave" To: "Looper's Delight" Subject: Bye for now... Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 11:52:56 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"h7upKD.A.6CC.CbgQ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5264 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 08:56:42 -0700 X-UIDL: 64f0b34fbe62fd0bdea03e68756b1c0c Hi, I've been on LD for a while now, and IMHO, it's the most civilized mailing list I have had the chance of being on. Unfortunately, my production schedule has turned me into deadwood. I only have time to lurk, and even that requires time I do not have at the moment. I am unsubscribing for the time being, hoping to be with you fine people again in the near future. Thanks to all and to Kim, for making my stay pleasurable and informative. Cheers, D 4 V 1 D K R 1 5 T 1 4 N --------------------------------------------- http://www.alien8recordings.com http://www.urbansounds.com/home/studio/us_instudio.html From ???@??? Sat Apr 25 12:57:40 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 25 10:46:06 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yT91a-00002G-00; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 10:46:06 -0700 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 17:57:23 +0100 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: babs Subject: Re: THE TOP 5! In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980424183025.216ff636@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Trial Version 3.03a Resent-Message-ID: <"XH-ZV.A.NFH.ACiQ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5265 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 10:46:06 -0700 X-UIDL: 04427912229659ee5ae5cdf62bb00c1e >Ed Alleyne-Johnson's "Purple Electric Violin Concerto" for the opposite >reason; it's solo violin with 8sec delay to play fugues and it's GORGEOUS; A great choice! I saw him on the UK TV show 'Later with Jools Holland' about 7 years ago and was blown away. He was just playing through a bunch of stomp boxes but put most peoples refrigerator racks to shame. He used to do a short solo piece at New Model Army gigs (he played guitar in the band), they've just released a new album I think, so you might get some looping if you catch them on tour. Speaking of simple gear, does anyone feel that the massive ammount of gear some people use actually get's in the way of the music? It's just I sometimes get the impression people care more about their gear than music, or that the creativity generated by the limitations of a small setup is lost with the mountains of gear people feel is necessary to their music. I guess it's a bit like a Hollywood movie, where the explosions and special effects take over and the actors become the set pieces, only in this case it's the musicians and their gear. Babs From ???@??? Sat Apr 25 15:34:09 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 25 13:48:28 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTBs3-0001QB-00; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 13:48:27 -0700 Message-ID: <19980425204950.12453.rocketmail@web2.rocketmail.com> Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 13:49:50 -0700 (PDT) From: "Rev. Doubt-Goat" Subject: Frisell in Portland (looping content) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"u2VEUC.A.rBB.krkQ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5266 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 13:48:27 -0700 X-UIDL: d2867a9712335ce1b77ceb082dd22460 93 Just saw Bill Frisell and Joey Baron at the Aladdin Theater last night, and I must say, it just goes to show what you can do with just 3 stomp boxes, a digitech pds 8 sec delay, a really nice and expensive looking archtop guitar and godzilla chops! I've never seen two professional musicians of such high caliber having such a genuinely good time playing with (and for) each other. And Joey Baron!!! What a nut! Best drummer I've ever seen. Bill's looping was as always, exciting and fresh. When I get my DOD dfx98, I'm thinking of setting it on a stool, playing the knobs and stealing Bill's gig! Absolutely different from how I have always approached looping (more the Fripp/Torn direction). The ability to change the loop length/pitch with a simple twist of a knob is something I really miss with my JamMan. Maybe the EDP will incorporate this in a later update! Preferably as an option to be controlled by an expression pedal. By the by, on a completely different guitar geek note, does anyone know why Bill was not using his Klein? Has he been using it recently live at all? 93 Rev. DOubt-Goat _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From ???@??? Sat Apr 25 22:53:23 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 25 20:33:10 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTIBh-0005da-00; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 20:33:09 -0700 From: Texture444 Message-ID: <2052d3a9.3542a9f2@aol.com> Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 23:28:49 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: dt clarification: was Frisell in Portland (minimal loop content) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 84 Resent-Message-ID: <"zmgEMC.A.jAF.WoqQ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5268 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 20:33:09 -0700 X-UIDL: 1998448d59ec2ea58a99a30f5884d5cc In a message dated 4/25/98 4:46:05 PM, dgoat wrote: >When I get my DOD dfx98, I'm thinking of >setting it on a stool, playing the knobs and >stealing Bill's gig! Absolutely different from >how I have always approached looping (more the >Fripp/Torn direction). !!!??!!! hello? sorry to take up valuable LD bandwidth (again), but i'm just aiming at a bit of clarification, here: rf & i certainly do *not* share an "approach" to our live use of looping, any more than we share an approach to our guitar-playing. and: while i tend to bring more pedals & whatnot to my thing than does the estimable bf, many of those pedals (and the mixer in my ever-smaller rack) are dedicated to the live manipulation of loops, as they have been since around 1979-80. ya know. i can't be sure what it is ya *think* i might be doing, but i'm pretty sure there must be some kinda misperception, there. best, dt From ???@??? Sat Apr 25 22:53:24 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 25 21:03:59 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTIfT-0007QI-00; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 21:03:55 -0700 Message-ID: <19980426035714.1518.rocketmail@attach1.rocketmail.com> Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 20:57:14 -0700 (PDT) From: "Rev. Doubt-Goat" Subject: Re: THE TOP 5! To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"yFwyyC.A.HuG.kFrQ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5269 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 21:03:55 -0700 X-UIDL: c642f7935960d0a1cf8fb1c771fcb27b 93 ---babs wrote: > Speaking of simple gear, does anyone feel that the massive ammount of > gear some people use actually get's in the way of the music? It's just I > sometimes get the impression people care more about their gear than > music, or that the creativity generated by the limitations of a small > setup is lost with the mountains of gear people feel is necessary to > their music. I guess it's a bit like a Hollywood movie, where the > explosions and special effects take over and the actors become the set > pieces, only in this case it's the musicians and their gear. > > Babs Heh. When I feel like my gear mountain is getting out of hand, I pick up my classical, and play some Villa-Lobos or Bach. I have also recently begun to create a 2nd, much more simplified electric rig. No racks allowed! Just the DOD dfx98 pedal for loops (when I get it!), the DOD volume/wah pedal, some sort of modulation pedal and a fuzz box, running into a new Fender Princeton. Guitarist in a suitcase! 93 Rev. DOubt-Goat _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From ???@??? Sat Apr 25 22:53:24 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 25 21:33:47 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTJ8M-0001HC-00; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 21:33:46 -0700 Message-ID: <19980426042722.3900.rocketmail@web4.rocketmail.com> Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 21:27:22 -0700 (PDT) From: "Rev. Doubt-Goat" Subject: Re: dt clarification: was Frisell in Portland (minimal loop content) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"p9G6NB.A.y7.OhrQ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5270 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 21:33:46 -0700 X-UIDL: 33e6a982c1e9a9e673d371235b740b5c 93 ---Texture444 wrote: > > In a message dated 4/25/98 4:46:05 PM, dgoat wrote: > >When I get my DOD dfx98, I'm thinking of > >setting it on a stool, playing the knobs and > >stealing Bill's gig! Absolutely different from > >how I have always approached looping (more the > >Fripp/Torn direction). > !!!??!!! > hello? > sorry to take up valuable LD bandwidth (again), but i'm > just aiming at a bit of clarification, here: > rf & i certainly do *not* share an "approach" to our live use of looping, any > more than we share an approach to our guitar-playing. Sorry to twist yer knobs there dt, I probably should have written it as "more the Fripp *or* Torn direction". Didn't mean to imply that you're joined at the loop with RF! By the bye, the other day I listened to "Secrets of the Beehive" for the first time in a couple of years and "The Boy with the Gun" just knocked me on the floor! I remember when I first got that album wondering where the dt was, and now, suddenly, I can hear that practically the whole meat of the song is you! And I have no idea in hell how you did most of it! Absolutely spellbinding! 93 Rev. DOubt-GOat _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From ???@??? Sat Apr 25 22:53:25 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 25 21:51:37 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTJPc-0002QK-00; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 21:51:36 -0700 From: CORROSIVE Message-ID: <4f81752.3542bc2e@aol.com> Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 00:46:36 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: RE: pedals!! (was: splitters) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.7 for Mac sub 3 Resent-Message-ID: <"y0s55B.A.nAC.tyrQ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5271 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 21:51:36 -0700 X-UIDL: 1c54f8fe42c4f50a327e977c28393ee3 hey, Stig-just saw yer mail to loopers delight & if youre still lookin for info on old EH dinos, i can tell you anything U wanna know about the Super Replay (only2nd coolest next to the 16 sec). I bought mine new (!) in about 84 & it's a 4 second looping beast from hell!! very very cool & has a (probly unintentional) feature that randomizes the point at which overdubs start onto of the existing loop- find one if you can. it also has CV & gate inputs so you can trigger & pitch shift loops using an old CV/ gate synth. I use a sequential pro one. got more info if U want-I have most of EH's boxes, cept the real rare ones>>>>>>>>>>greg From ???@??? Sat Apr 25 22:53:26 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 25 22:01:57 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTJZc-00035t-00; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 22:01:56 -0700 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sprintmail.com Reply-To: "COLLINSCLAN" From: "COLLINSCLAN" To: Subject: Re: Celestial Goings On Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 00:48:39 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd70ce$949357a0$LocalHost@0QHC6SIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"himKKC.A.ZpC.97rQ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5272 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 22:01:56 -0700 X-UIDL: 65125b49ad62140e0d320888eadc18d8 hey paul, are you going to be taping the show...perhaps on video. Let me know i may be interested in buying a copy. Jeff Collins collinsclan@sprintmail.com -----Original Message----- From: PMimlitsch To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com ; stickwire-l@netcom.com Date: Friday, April 24, 1998 6:36 PM Subject: Celestial Goings On Sat. April 25th. 8:00 pm - 10:00pm at the Celestial Cafe, Taunton Forge Center, Medford, N.J. (609) 596-7098. "Explorations in Time and Space"-an evening of Soundscapes and Improvisations w/Paul Mimlitsch (Chapman Stick¨/Loops) and Jody Janetta ("Painterly" Percussion). Thanks. - Paul From ???@??? Sun Apr 26 12:13:42 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 26 02:32:13 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTNn9-0006Ni-00; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 02:32:11 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <353FCB6D.1539@mdbs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 02:27:46 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: multiple echoplex syncing (was: Hello and Help) Resent-Message-ID: <"HcDu_B.A.usF.C5vQ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5273 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 02:32:11 -0700 X-UIDL: 75734b59b5511f828c63e5b67bf116b6 At 6:14 PM -0500 4/23/98, Dennis W. Leas wrote: >Hello, All! > >I'm a new subscriber though a long-term looper. I live in Lafayette, >Indiana and am >primarily a percussionist (strictly acoustic instruments) although I play >a few >non-percussion instruments as well. welcome! and sorry I'm slow replying, but ya know, the life is too full...... warning: massive, possibly excruciatingly detailed, echoplex techno babble commences from here on out, the rest of you might want to go back to contemplating the beatle's tape loop usage or whatever...;-) >I recently acquired a second Oberheim 'Plex with several goals in mind: > > 1) stereo looping > 2) simultaneous unsynchronized loops > 3) synchronized loops > >I'm having problems with number three. first question: do both units have the new software upgrade? (LoopIIIv5.0) This is exactly the sort of stuff that was a bit dodgy in the old echoplex software, and works considerably better now. If your older unit has the older software, you should definitely get it upgraded. >I've read through the information on >Looper's Delight regarding synchronizing. I have the two loopers >connected with a >midi cable, one is set to SYNC out, 1/8s per beat to 1; the other is set >to SYNC in, >1/8s per beat to 8 (though I've tried all the values). The two loopers >mostly >synchronize how I imagine they would, i.e., they mostly do what I want. >However, >sometimes they don't. For example, after building up a pattern in the >master looper >(via, record, overdub, multiply, nextloop-multiply, etc.) I want to record >my first >pattern into the slave. I want an integral number of the slave loops to >fit into >the master loop. Diagramatically, > >master loop: begin |---------------------------------------| end > >slave loop: begin |---------| end > >so that, as they play together: > >master loop: |---------------------------------------| > >slave loop: |---------|---------|---------|---------| > >and we all make beautiful music together... :) > >If I perform only simple operations on the master, this seems to work. >When I build >up a loop in a more complicated fashion, I can't get the units to >synchronize. >HELP! I can't find enough details to figure out what is going on. Well, I spent a couple of hours this afternoon syncing two echoplexes like you're talking about, and didn't encounter any bug-like trouble, so I'm currently of the belief that it should work. You didn't really say exactly what the "complicated" actions were in building the initial loop, or what exactly happened when the slave unit didn't do what you expected. Maybe you could send me mail and fill in the details? I'll see what I can suggest anyway: It sounds like you have things basically set up correctly. One thing seems a bit backwards though. You say the master has 8ths/beat = 1, and the slave is 8ths/beat = 8. Then you say you are trying to get this to happen: >master loop: |---------------------------------------| > >slave loop: |---------|---------|---------|---------| If I were doing this, I would set the master to have the larger 8ths/beat value (8) and the slave the smaller. (2 would be the right thing for your diagram.) Then you would record a loop on the master which would be considered 4 beats long, and loops recorded on the slave could be done in increments of 1 beat. So I wonder if you are confused about what 8ths/beat does? That's easy to do, actually, because it's a poorly named parameter. It should really be called "8ths/cycle". (those crazy swiss and their english translations....:-) The 8ths/beat parameter determines how many 8th notes the loop length represents when generating midi clock. The echoplex uses that parameter and the loop length to determine what tempo to set the clock to. For example, if 8ths/beat = 8 the basic loop length will represent 8 8th notes, which of course is 4/4. If you create a 2 second loop, the echoplex will consider that to be .25 seconds per 8th note, or 120 BPM, and transmit midi clock at that tempo. If you set the second unit to have 8ths/beat = 2, it will consider a basic loop length to have two 8th notes, or 1 beat in 4/4 time. So if the second unit is syncing to the first unit, it will create loops in increments of .5 seconds, or one beat. This should allow you to get what you've diagrammed above. but then, maybe that's not your problem..... You mentioned using multiply a lot. When I was playing around with this today, I noticed I could sometimes screw things up if I didn't think about what I was doing with multiply. (actually, I was mostly screwing my perception of things up....) One bit of advice: turn the quantize parameter on. Using multiply while syncing two or more units is a lot easier if the multiply automatically starts at the cycle boundary. If you don't have quantize on, it will still sync up properly, but the multiply counts on the master's display will probably end up out of phase with any multiply counts on the slave's display. Like I say, they will actually still be in sync, but when you look at it you will think they aren't because the displays won't change together. If quantize is on, the multiply displays will change together, and it will look right. Another thing to realize is that the slave is receiving midi clock as soon as you first record the loop on the master unit. Midi clock doesn't say anything about where the beats are located, it just defines a tempo by sending 24 pulses per quarter note. The slave keeps track of where the beats are by counting the pulses. (that's true of anything, not just echoplexes.) If you have 8ths/beat set differently on master and slave, they will have a different idea of where the downbeats of their loop measures are located. So when you do a multiply on the master, it's multiply display will be counting according to it's original loop length. The slave's idea of where it's loop downbeat should be located will regularly changing against the master's multiply count, even if you haven't recorded a loop on the slave yet, since it is just sitting there counting the midi clock pulses. So when you do hit record on the slave, it will just happily wait until it's idea of the downbeat arrives, and start recording. If you are not thinking about what is going on, this might not be where you expect it to be! It will still be in sync with the master, but it might take some practice on your part to get the hang of where it will come in. Where this can get really funky is when you have done multiply on the master's loop several times. Each time you do a multiply, the point where you hit multiply becomes the beginning of multiple "1". The "1" position can be moved around if you start multiply in different places. (this is where having quantize on is a really good idea.) The slave doesn't know anything about that, because all it gets is midi clock and it has been happily keeping track of midi clock pulses to determine where the beats are. So while it will still be synchronized to the master, it's idea of beat one might moved around a lot in relation. For example, say you've got the master's 8ths/beat=1, and the slave's 8ths/beat=8, like you say above. Let's say you've already multiplied a loop on the master to 8, and you were smart enough to start the multiply right at beat 1 in the 4/4 time that the slave is tracking. So the master's loop is now equal to one 4/4 measure, counting 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8. The slave's sync LED should be flashing each time the master's display goes to 1. Then you decide to shorten the master loop to 4 multiples. Instead of pressing Multiply right as the display says "1", you press it right as the display says "4". (that's the "and" of 2, from the slaves point of view.) You capture multiples 4-5-6-7. The master, however, will now call these 1-2-3-4. If you've managed to follow this, you'll see the master's 1 multiple falls at what the slave thinks is "and of 2" and "and of 4". So if you now record your first loop on the slave, things might seem out of whack. I know this seems mind-numbingly confusing, but if you think about it a bit and understand what's going on, you should be able to get the hang of it pretty quickly. I hadn't really played this sort of setup much before today. I had tested it a lot, but never actually sat there using it. I had trouble with the multiply thing at first, and had some trouble getting things rhythmically organized. After a bit of practice I was doing fine though. Practice with it some and see if it starts to work, or feel free to ask more questions. hope this helps, kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Apr 26 12:13:50 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 26 05:34:45 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTQdo-0004nB-00; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 05:34:44 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980426073744.007dd350@tctc.com> X-Sender: pearce@tctc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 07:37:44 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pearce Subject: my new release.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"gPUxCB.A.3RE.akyQ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5274 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 05:34:44 -0700 X-UIDL: 811f16c97dae243c5c37f1312240aafe Hi! My name is Jeff Pearce, and I've been on the list for about two months now, although this is my first posting. It's been really great reading about you good (and bad!) experiences with looping! This is a blantantly commercial post, so I hope this doesn't offend! I've just released my latest cd, "Vestiges", and I taked with (ok, "e-mailed" with) Kim about making it available to the people on this list. All the music on Vestiges is looped- some noticeably, some not-so-noticeably. The only instrument used is the electric guitar, but there's nary a "skronk" on the disc. The music probably falls into the space/ambient genre, but there's also some tension to it that keeps it a little "outside" of that area. Anyway, if any of you are interested in this disc, I'm making it available direct from me for $7- shipping and handling included. For outside the US orders, it's $10. If you're interested, please reply to me personally at pearce@tctc.com and I'll send you the mailing address, etc.... If you're interested in hearing before you by, there are a couple of options. First of all, music from Vestiges will be featured on this week's "Music from the Hearts of Space" radio program. It's a syndicated program that, if it's in your area, will be on public radio. The second option would be to check out www.hypnos.com/audio.htm and click on the Jeff Pearce cut. This ISN'T on Vestiges, but IS on a compilation that a label in Oregon has recently released. I think that there is also a link to my web site there (my site is www.hypnos.com/pearce/). The site is still under construction, but will soon feature audio clips, older reviews of my music from Guitar Player and Downbeat, etc...... Thanks for reading, and keep looping! Jeff From ???@??? Sun Apr 26 12:13:53 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 26 08:27:30 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTTKz-00067q-00; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 08:27:29 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 11:22:28 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Ph.D.) Subject: Re: dt clarification: was Frisell in Portland (minimal loop content) Resent-Message-ID: <"TXJ6NB.A.4ZF.yF1Q1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5275 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 08:27:29 -0700 X-UIDL: d1238087f3121784ac2e9906b4717235 >93 > >---Texture444 wrote: >> >> In a message dated 4/25/98 4:46:05 PM, dgoat >wrote: >> >When I get my DOD dfx98, I'm thinking of >> >setting it on a stool, playing the knobs and >> >stealing Bill's gig! Absolutely different from >> >how I have always approached looping (more the >> >Fripp/Torn direction). >> !!!??!!! >> hello? >> sorry to take up valuable LD bandwidth >(again), but i'm >> just aiming at a bit of clarification, here: >> rf & i certainly do *not* share an "approach" >to our live use of looping, any >> more than we share an approach to our >guitar-playing. > >Sorry to twist yer knobs there dt, I probably >should have written it as "more the Fripp *or* >Torn direction". Didn't mean to imply that >you're joined at the loop with RF! > >By the bye, the other day I listened to "Secrets >of the Beehive" for the first time in a couple >of years and "The Boy with the Gun" just knocked >me on the floor! I remember when I first got >that album wondering where the dt was, and now, >suddenly, I can hear that practically the whole >meat of the song is you! And I have no idea in >hell how you did most of it! Absolutely >spellbinding! > >93 > >Rev. DOubt-GOat I wholeheartedly agree that Secrets is a seminal work for both syl and torn. it's all good sunday listening...lush and exacting at the same time. Paul Poplawski, Ph.D. email = ppoplawski@state.de.us or paulpop@ssnet.com phone service = 302/737-4491 weekday office = 302/577-4980 From ???@??? Sun Apr 26 12:13:54 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 26 10:37:13 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTVMW-0006A1-00; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 10:37:12 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980426123314.007efe00@wavefront.com> X-Sender: chuck.zwicky@wavefront.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 12:33:14 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chuck Zwicky Subject: DOD Dimension 12 review In-Reply-To: <19980425204950.12453.rocketmail@web2.rocketmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"PIWsHC.A.VdF.9-2Q1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5276 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 10:37:12 -0700 X-UIDL: b09bfa3fffd9a2e5cc20115c3e8e9473 I have on loan from a local pro-audio dealer the new DOD Dimension 12. As a "looping device" it has serious flaws. I'll be brief: Wall Wart. Audio is mono. No level indication of any kind. Has a mono Hi-Z input jack, a stereo line level input, but only MONO output. (actually ther are 2 outputs, but one is labled "Main" and the other "Monitor" they allow auditioning samples out one, and routing through input audio to the other.) You can record four 6-second samples, which can be looped. You can play either 1 & 2 or 3 & 4 simultaneously (2 voice polyphony) You cannot listen to one sample while recording another. You cannot overdub on a sample. The 4 big buttons on the front panel do not play the stored samples, they 'select' them THEN you can press the 'play' button.... Samples can be played backwards. Pressing the delay mode button wipes the sample memory. Delay has infinite hold mode. ("loop" button on front). Delay time cannot be adjusted with a knob, so no tuning of 'loops'. Modulation of delay is 'destructive' in 'loop' mode. (If you apply modulation to the held delay loop, it is now a permanent corruption of the signal.) MIDI input only receives program change data. MIDI input only controls "sampler' functions (not delay functions). Has a footswitch input, 3 button proprietary. In delay mode said to control "sample/hold" (maybe the same as the 'loop' button on the front panel?), 'Tap" and "effect on/off" (the "effect" button on the front panel turns the modulation on). 'Looped' delay cannot be edited, reversed or copied into a Sample location. Delay has a 'Tap-Tempo' feature, tapping slower tempos will 'multiply' current loop (as on Jam-Man). Has a nice 'reverse delay' mode which samples input signal for the selected delay length, and plays it out backwards, during which time it mutes the dry signal. No loop, feedback or modulation while in reverse. Delay time only adjustable in 10ms increments up to 10s, then 100ms. From ???@??? Sun Apr 26 12:13:55 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 26 10:42:00 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTVR9-0006j4-00; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 10:41:59 -0700 X-Sender: doug@mail.lightlink.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 13:39:19 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Doug Wyatt Subject: another looper release Resent-Message-ID: <"SMow7B.A.87F.UE3Q1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5277 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 10:41:59 -0700 X-UIDL: 225fe13136fd6e2f0262b15bfab56056 Hi all, I've just released my CD, "Accidental Beauties". The majority of the disc falls into an electronic/soundscape vein (I play keyboards, with bassists on two tracks and a percussionist on one). There are also brief forays into more groovular areas. The common thread is that most of the pieces' foundational tracks were improvised. Loops are featured in several places. The title tune opens with a guitar-like sound processed through a long delay with a lot of regeneration; the effect is of a gradually evolving loop, with some crossfades that create tonal shifts. The guitar-like sounds gradually dissolve into some more shimmery sounds; a sample of this stage of the loop then becomes the main background texture for the more rhythmic second half of the piece. In "Bricolage", the first part is composed on top of an improv, but in the second half, we hear a rhythmic loop of percussive sounds evolve from chaos in a surprising way, and then locked in and soloed over (with overdubbed percussion and textural backgrounds). Please visit my web site (URL in the sig) for ordering information, sound samples, and reviews. I would be totally into swapping for a CD or tape of *your* music -- just let me know by email. Doug -- Doug Wyatt doug@sonosphere.com Sonosphere (electric/improv music) http://www.sonosphere.com/ "Accidental Beauties" CD release: http://www.sonosphere.com/wyatt/ From ???@??? Sun Apr 26 12:13:56 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 26 10:55:44 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTVeR-00007T-00; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 10:55:43 -0700 From: PJBMHB Message-ID: <680c6ef4.3543718f@aol.com> Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 13:40:30 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: DOD Dimension 12 review Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Resent-Message-ID: <"t-DuX.A.nAH.8P3Q1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5278 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 10:55:43 -0700 X-UIDL: 438b0533719bf5b8092ffa9fd967d279 So do you dig this thing or not? =-) PJ From ???@??? Sun Apr 26 12:13:57 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 26 11:01:55 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTVkQ-0000kG-00; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 11:01:54 -0700 Sender: mpeters@csi.com Message-ID: <01BD714D.4A2C0020.mpeters@csi.com> From: Michael Peters To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: time stretching Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 19:55:09 +0200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-Mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wKdfM.A.mU.oW3Q1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5279 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 11:01:54 -0700 X-UIDL: e6bc011f52d35529f26137ad082fba87 A non-loop-content question, but not about guitars either. Reply using private email if you want. Has anyone used software to time-stretch samples? I'd like to be able to stretch very fast and complex natural sounds (birdsongs, etc), but the resulting samples should not lose their sound quality. I've heard good quality time-stretched samples - so I know it can be done - but I don't know how. I was not happy at all with the programs I've tried so far. The resulting samples (same pitch, but double duration) sounded like shit. They were all modulated as if treated with a low-pitch ringmodulator. Speeding the samples up to 1/2 duration sounded even worse. Ideas anyone? michael peters mpeters@csi.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Mpeters/ From ???@??? Sun Apr 26 12:13:59 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 26 11:18:27 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTW0P-00028A-00; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 11:18:25 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980426131044.00841cf0@wavefront.com> X-Sender: chuck.zwicky@wavefront.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 13:10:44 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chuck Zwicky Subject: Re: DOD Dimension 12 review In-Reply-To: <680c6ef4.3543718f@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"wbqFFD.A.wjB.bl3Q1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5280 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 11:18:25 -0700 X-UIDL: 7db1344262d2a926050b31a293dd8593 Who cares what I think about it? I've provided my observations so that all on the list can evaluate it's applicability. -Chuck Zwicky At 01:40 PM 4/26/98 EDT, you wrote: >So do you dig this thing or not? =-) PJ > > > From ???@??? Sun Apr 26 13:16:26 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 26 13:01:48 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTXcS-0001TL-00; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 13:01:48 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980426123314.007efe00@wavefront.com> References: <19980425204950.12453.rocketmail@web2.rocketmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 12:56:27 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: DOD Dimension 12 review Resent-Message-ID: <"dV7vYB.A.Y_.ZG5Q1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5281 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 13:01:48 -0700 X-UIDL: 6b75df1a4264b625fddbfdcb35a0c5f9 Hi Chuck, a few questions: - I want to make a Looper's Delight web page for this guy, mind if I include your review of it? And do you have any way to scan a picture of it from the box? (I guess I could grab one from somewhere else....) - Does it have any sync functions, to midi clock for example? - any display for delay time or anything else useful? - what's the audio quality spec'd at? - is the interface intuitive or confusing? >Wall Wart. boooooo! >You can record four 6-second samples, which can be looped. can the lengths of these samples be independent of each other? Does it let you do one 24 second loop, or are you stuck at 6 seconds? >The 4 big buttons on the front panel do not play the stored samples, they >'select' them THEN you can press the 'play' button.... Is there any sort of retriggering? >MIDI input only receives program change data. > >MIDI input only controls "sampler' functions (not delay functions). any more details on the midi functionality? Does it just replicate the front panel buttons? Are you able to trigger samples with midi? (although triggering them with program change would be a bit different from the way any other sampler does it...) >'Looped' delay cannot be edited, reversed or copied into a Sample location. a fluff piece I saw said you could edit sample start/stop points. How well does that work? thanks! kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Apr 26 19:43:56 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 26 14:55:34 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTZOX-0002uV-00; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 14:55:33 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980426165145.008638f0@wavefront.com> X-Sender: chuck.zwicky@wavefront.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 16:51:45 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chuck Zwicky Subject: Re: DOD Dimension 12 review In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19980426123314.007efe00@wavefront.com> <19980425204950.12453.rocketmail@web2.rocketmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"5H8T.A.dWC.px6Q1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5282 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 14:55:33 -0700 X-UIDL: be0ebb3870a0139c8b5828f258beccba Kim, This device has a LONG way to go before it could be very useful to anyone here. For instance: If you could play 4 samples simultaneously, record and trim samples while the others played, trigger samples with MIDI or footswitches, copy delay loops into samples, reverse the delay while overdubbing, use audio inputs to trigger samples, even stereo direct signal pass through. Please imagine what you would like to be able to do with the box in a performance setting, then re-read the review and this reply. -Chuck Zwicky >- Does it have any sync functions, to midi clock for example? NO >- any display for delay time or anything else useful? 3 digit LED display for time >- what's the audio quality spec'd at? No Spec given >- is the interface intuitive or confusing? Confusing and idiotic. Pressing one of the 4 front panel buttons selects (doesn't play) the sample. Pressing two of them clears the memory. With the modulation unselected, turning the depth knob glitches the audio. >can the lengths of these samples be independent of each other? Does it let >you do one 24 second loop, or are you stuck at 6 seconds? TWO 6 sec can be played simultaneously from one "group", i.e. 1&2 OR 3&4 LENGTH can be independant, however: You CANNOT listen to one sample while recording another. You CANNOT overdub on a sample. >Is there any sort of retriggering? NO. There is a 'Stutter' button, which alows retriggering, but you have to SELECT the sample, then tap the stutter button. There is no way to trigger all 4 samples quickly. >any more details on the midi functionality? Does it just replicate the >front panel buttons? YES >Are you able to trigger samples with midi? (although >triggering them with program change would be a bit different from the way >any other sampler does it...) NO >>'Looped' delay cannot be edited, reversed or copied into a Sample location. >a fluff piece I saw said you could edit sample start/stop points. How well >does that work? Fine, as long as playback is stopped. Otherwise it gets locked in a mode where the loop gets shorter and shorter. 10ms accuracy only. From ???@??? Sun Apr 26 19:43:57 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 26 15:14:35 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTZgw-0004Zc-00; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 15:14:34 -0700 Message-ID: <3543B304.5C74@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 15:19:49 -0700 From: Andre LaFosse Reply-To: altruist@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: time stretching References: <01BD714D.4A2C0020.mpeters@csi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tdC1IC.A.6-D.tD7Q1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5283 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 15:14:34 -0700 X-UIDL: 857cf9a76023348f2da1cf650fde974c Michael Peters wrote: > Has anyone used software to time-stretch samples? I'd like to be able to > stretch very fast and complex natural sounds (birdsongs, etc), but the > resulting samples should not lose their sound quality. I've heard good quality > time-stretched samples - so I know it can be done - but I don't know how. The time stretch function in Studio Vision seems very good. I only used it to compress one segment by a few dozen milliseconds in order to make it fit into a certain number of bars a bit more cleanly, but it was a pretty long segment (about 20-25 seconds), and it sounded *great*. None of the glitchy/flangy business you hear on lower-quality timestretchers. Don't know how it would function for more radical stretches, but I do know that the Dust Brothers use the Studio Vision feature pretty much exclusively now, saying they prefer it over what's available even in something like Pro Tools. Norman Cook (aka Fatboy Slim) does some pretty serious timestretching as well; don't know what process/software he uses, but it should be a good pointer. --Andre From ???@??? Sun Apr 26 19:44:08 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 26 18:08:30 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTcPE-0002xS-00; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 18:08:28 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 18:05:10 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: time stretching Resent-Message-ID: <"8-R9OD.A.5aC.3m9Q1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5284 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 18:08:28 -0700 X-UIDL: 33cf8045cc8f82916148d824570b225a >A non-loop-content question, but not about guitars either. Reply using private >email if you want. > >Has anyone used software to time-stretch samples? I'd like to be able to >stretch very fast and complex natural sounds (birdsongs, etc), but the >resulting samples should not lose their sound quality. I've heard good quality >time-stretched samples - so I know it can be done - but I don't know how. >I was >not happy at all with the programs I've tried so far. The resulting samples >(same pitch, but double duration) sounded like shit. They were all >modulated as >if treated with a low-pitch ringmodulator. Speeding the samples up to 1/2 >duration sounded even worse. > >Ideas anyone? > Arboretum Systems Hyperprism has very good sounding time-stretching, and, given your intended use, there seems a sympthetic resonance with the comapny's name. I've not done birdsong, which seems like it would have a lot of material in the range around the nyquist frequency of whatever you're digitizing the sound with. I have done some extreme time stretching on wind instruments, one piece with oboes slowed to 1% of their original speed, a 10 second phrase took about 4 minutes to plat through, and there were surprisingly few artifacts from the processing. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ "...there will come a day when you won't have to use gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." -Sun Ra ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Sun Apr 26 19:44:12 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 26 19:40:02 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTdpp-0002kc-00; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 19:40:01 -0700 Message-ID: <3543F0D1.402C@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 19:43:30 -0700 From: Andre LaFosse Reply-To: altruist@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Geetar player sells soul to drum & bass devils (film at 11:00) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pCNb-C.A.37B.D7-Q1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5285 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 19:40:01 -0700 X-UIDL: bb5fcd8c634e567ac85bc21de4e9de98 Hello all -- They say self-promotion comes in threes, so I'd like to invite you to check out some grainy sound files and brainy postulations of my most recent work at: http://home.earthlink.net/~altruist/98.html (Warning: This is *not* ambient-guitar-loop music). The page is part of my just-completed new web site, the front door of which is at: http://home.earthlink.net/~altruist It contains all sorts of sound files, information, links, and amateur hack-quality HTML which may well be of absolutely no interest to you or anyone else! But you never know... Thanks for your time. We now return you to your regularly-scheduled mailing list. --Andre From ???@??? Sun Apr 26 22:25:14 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 26 22:04:28 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTg5Y-0006tU-00; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 22:04:24 -0700 Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 01:00:39 -0400 From: buzzard@world.std.com (Sean T Barrett) Message-Id: <199804270500.AA28675@world.std.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: DOD Dimension 12 review References: <3.0.5.32.19980426123314.007efe00@wavefront.com> <19980425204950.12453.rocketmail@web2.rocketmail.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"KmmuEC.A.U-F.yDBR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5286 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 22:04:24 -0700 X-UIDL: 2e3671e57b8f55d924e32e11c62b56cc Chuck Zwicky: > This device has a LONG way to go before it could be very useful to anyone >here. This _sounds_ like an exaggeration. It sounds like the DOD Dimension 12's _delay_ mode is quite similar to the Jamman's _delay_ mode, which is pretty much the only way I use the Jamman because of the limited resolution of the feedback setting in its other modes and its poor design for sustained overdubbing (in loop modes, when you lay down the initial the first layer, you're booted out-- it doesn't automatically switch to overdubbing; and if you're overdubbing and switch loops, it drops out of overdubbing). The ability to set the delay time directly (which I know the Jamman can't do directly, and I've never heard any evidence that the Echoplex can do) seems like a useful bonus. This is not to say that everyone on this list can live without the "missing" features. And certainly you might be paying for a lot of sampling features you would never use. Sean From ???@??? Sun Apr 26 23:37:56 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 26 23:06:49 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTh3w-0003yT-00; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 23:06:48 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980427004322.008885e0@wavefront.com> X-Sender: chuck.zwicky@wavefront.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 00:43:22 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chuck Zwicky Subject: Re: DOD Dimension 12 review In-Reply-To: <199804270500.AA28675@world.std.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19980426123314.007efe00@wavefront.com> <19980425204950.12453.rocketmail@web2.rocketmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ag9HWB.A.wZD.n-BR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5287 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 23:06:48 -0700 X-UIDL: b511129f5a2dd684a57ec1b82ed60182 I think that the older DOD delays have better features than this one for looping. For example, being able to tune the captured loop. I rely on the Jam-Man tempo LED quite a bit in solo performance. Synching to MIDI is not possible in the DOD, and no tempo LED compounds the problems in a 12 second loop. Just my opinion. I think that this list could be a great resource for any company developing a looper or delay. It's too bad that DOD will probably drop the product due to "lack of interest in looping", when it really only needs more development. At 01:00 AM 4/27/98 -0400, you wrote: >Chuck Zwicky: >> This device has a LONG way to go before it could be very useful to anyone >>here. > >This _sounds_ like an exaggeration. It sounds like the >DOD Dimension 12's _delay_ mode is quite similar to >the Jamman's _delay_ mode, which is pretty much the >only way I use the Jamman because of the limited resolution >of the feedback setting in its other modes and its poor >design for sustained overdubbing (in loop modes, when you >lay down the initial the first layer, you're booted out-- >it doesn't automatically switch to overdubbing; and if you're >overdubbing and switch loops, it drops out of overdubbing). > >The ability to set the delay time directly (which I know >the Jamman can't do directly, and I've never heard any >evidence that the Echoplex can do) seems like a useful >bonus. > >This is not to say that everyone on this list can live >without the "missing" features. And certainly you might >be paying for a lot of sampling features you would never >use. > >Sean > > > From ???@??? Sun Apr 26 23:47:46 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 26 23:42:06 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yThc5-0006wu-00; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 23:42:05 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199804270500.AA28675@world.std.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19980426123314.007efe00@wavefront.com> <19980425204950.12453.rocketmail@web2.rocketmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 23:27:20 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: DOD Dimension 12 review Resent-Message-ID: <"P6p16.A.YEG.4fCR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5289 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 23:42:05 -0700 X-UIDL: 898b2a4fe2f833391b95c27ecd4f18e8 At 1:00 AM -0400 4/27/98, Sean T Barrett wrote: >This is not to say that everyone on this list can live >without the "missing" features. And certainly you might >be paying for a lot of sampling features you would never >use. >From the feature set and Chuck's descriptions, the sampler features you would be paying for wouldn't amount to much either. It is being touted in their marketing lit as some sort of phrase sampler for dj's, which seems a little misguided. (I don't see many dj's using rack gear, or modulation effects for that matter....) If you are looking for a sampler-like device in this price range, I think you'd be better off with similar (and much better thought out) phrase sampler devices from akai, yamaha, and boss, or the ones built into some dj mixers. Better yet, save a little more money and get an actual used akai sampler. That's my opinion, anyway, being a bit more of the sampling persuasion. I'm kinda baffled by this product, actually. Seems to me that DOD is very confused about who the market for it is, or what that market might be interested in. I guess we'll see how long it lasts. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Apr 26 23:38:01 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 26 23:37:58 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yThY5-0006Mq-00; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 23:37:57 -0700 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sprintmail.com Reply-To: "COLLINSCLAN" From: "COLLINSCLAN" To: Subject: Re: DOD Dimension 12 review Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 02:27:25 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd71a5$8b2bfbe0$2708bfa8@0QHC6SIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"6-zWbB.A.MuF.UcCR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5288 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 23:37:57 -0700 X-UIDL: 1fba16e77f5d112ddb57d67e7ad58c41 I do believe that looping products in general need to be thought out more clearly. I believe that who put's out the next one of these babys should send a few to the very intense loopers in these pages and get their feedback so hey can learn...and therefore will sell a better product and will sell more of that better product...taking into consideration that the pricing would suit the product. Jeff Collins -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Zwicky To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Monday, April 27, 1998 2:05 AM Subject: Re: DOD Dimension 12 review >I think that the older DOD delays have better features than this one for >looping. For example, being able to tune the captured loop. I rely on the >Jam-Man tempo LED quite a bit in solo performance. Synching to MIDI is not >possible in the DOD, and no tempo LED compounds the problems in a 12 second >loop. > >Just my opinion. > >I think that this list could be a great resource for any company developing >a looper or delay. It's too bad that DOD will probably drop the product due >to "lack of interest in looping", when it really only needs more development. > > > >At 01:00 AM 4/27/98 -0400, you wrote: >>Chuck Zwicky: >>> This device has a LONG way to go before it could be very useful to anyone >>>here. >> >>This _sounds_ like an exaggeration. It sounds like the >>DOD Dimension 12's _delay_ mode is quite similar to >>the Jamman's _delay_ mode, which is pretty much the >>only way I use the Jamman because of the limited resolution >>of the feedback setting in its other modes and its poor >>design for sustained overdubbing (in loop modes, when you >>lay down the initial the first layer, you're booted out-- >>it doesn't automatically switch to overdubbing; and if you're >>overdubbing and switch loops, it drops out of overdubbing). >> >>The ability to set the delay time directly (which I know >>the Jamman can't do directly, and I've never heard any >>evidence that the Echoplex can do) seems like a useful >>bonus. >> >>This is not to say that everyone on this list can live >>without the "missing" features. And certainly you might >>be paying for a lot of sampling features you would never >>use. >> >>Sean >> >> >> > > From ???@??? Mon Apr 27 09:54:50 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 27 01:24:20 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTjD0-00063y-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 01:24:18 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 01:19:22 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: a bit of history Resent-Message-ID: <"FYSI9D.A.8TF.8-DR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5290 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 01:24:18 -0700 X-UIDL: 240c4cca98490b4b66bf8f610556c340 If you are interested in some looping history, and specifically, Paradis LoopDelay / Oberheim Echoplex history, there's some new stuff on the web page for ya. Matthias Grob has written a nice and rather inspiring essay on his looping development efforts that led up to the existence of the Echoplex. You can find it here: http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tools/echoplex/OBechoplexhistory.html You'll feel good knowing a bit about the humans and history underlying these things. Enjoy. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Mon Apr 27 09:54:53 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 27 01:54:22 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTjg4-00007q-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 01:54:20 -0700 Posted-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 03:50:39 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19980427084944.006ac8f4@mail.visi.com> X-Sender: spat@mail.visi.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 03:49:44 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: spat@visi.com Subject: RE: THE TOP 5! (Beatles) Resent-Message-ID: <"gqBYPD.A.pNH.lbER1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5291 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 01:54:20 -0700 X-UIDL: d0d8908552afffbc13a038025c9ba26d Steuart L wrote: >Well . . . what was that album that they did where, if you didn't have >an automatic record changer, it just kept playing the same phrase (which >I can't remember right now . . . ) over and over and over again in the >out grooves? >A continous and probably mind altering loop for the time. The loop in question is on the end of the Dr. Pepper album, (not on later pressings) and supposedly if you play it backwards, it says "we'll f**k you like supermen". When a fan pointed this out to Paul, he explained it as just a piece of nonsensical gibberish tacked onto the end of the album, and that listening to it for an extended period of time resulted in a "pure buzz" because of its meaninglessness. However, one of the Beatle books documents that this seemingly random piece of gibberish took several hours to record. The loops for "Tommorrow Never Knows" were recorded by all four at home on their tape recorders. The original title was "The Void", the new title was a Ringoism, ala "A Hard Day's Night". Lennon originally envisioned Tibetian monks chanting on the piece, but that proved to be impractical (the image of a hundred lost monks wandering around London with Beatle wigs comes to mind, asking for directions to Abbey Road studios, while a dosed Lennon awaits impatiently). The song features a vocal by Lennon recorded through a Leslie rotating speaker. He was so enamoured by the doppler effect that he proposed to take it even furthur by being suspended from the ceiling by a rope, so he could be swung in a circle around a microphone while he sang. (BTW, Leslies are tres cool for looping applications.) The Beatles are also credited with the first use of feedback on record ("I Feel Fine") the first use of backward tape recording ("Rain", another superlative example of Ringo's drumming, also his personal favorite example of his abilities)-- all this in a pop context! Lennon is also credited for having coined the term "flanger", although I'm not sure if the Beatles were the first to use this sweeping effect of having two tape recorders playing the same thing, but one being slowed down by pressing a thumb against the tape reel's flange. Exhausted by trivia, Steve From ???@??? Mon Apr 27 09:55:08 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 27 04:17:33 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTlue-0007fI-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 04:17:32 -0700 From: Texture444 Message-ID: <9f703b7c.354467e7@aol.com> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 07:11:34 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: dt clarification: was Frisell in Portland (minimal loop content) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 84 Resent-Message-ID: <"adtRM.A.15G.WgGR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5293 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 04:17:32 -0700 X-UIDL: dae75e168d9bb4160fa312a801260480 mr. goat, thanks fer yer kindness re:"secrets o'the b-hive". re: my reaction to yer other comment, i's more focussed on this point, than that, FYI: >while i tend to bring more pedals & whatnot to my thing than does the estimable bf, many of those pedals (and the mixer in my ever-smaller rack) are dedicated to the *live manipulation of loops*, as they have been since around 1979-80. right on. dt From ???@??? Mon Apr 27 10:49:13 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 27 10:45:23 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTrxp-0007Ag-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:45:13 -0700 Message-ID: <35447B2C.4B458E5D@nyfac.com> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:33:48 +0100 From: tdbajus Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: DOD Dimension 12 review References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"SxGQYB.A.x7E.iEMR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5306 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:45:13 -0700 X-UIDL: 6443cac7044b73efe34168d6049bad81 Kim Flint wrote: > At the NAMM show I talked with a senior engineer from digitech (another > fine Harman company) who on one hand seemed to think that existing digitech > products had good looping functions, and on the other hand was completely > unaware of the whole RDS/PDS/TimeMachine product line and the degree of > interest people still have for those! So don't expect much on that front > either.... > > kim There isn't a whole lot of info on the whole RDS/PDS/TimeMachine thang. I am under the impression that PDS is the RDS in pedal form, although I have no evidence to support this. I have also noticed that the RDS-900 lo-fi sample rate sound dope, yo- far supperior to the hi-er fi later models. Is there a PDS-900? Does it work like the ol' RDS-900. Does anyone knowthe diff in the specs? Trev From ???@??? Mon Apr 27 21:47:21 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 27 11:21:11 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTsWQ-0004iW-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 11:20:58 -0700 Message-ID: <354483C4.74D119A7@nyfac.com> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:10:28 +0100 From: tdbajus Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Hey, I want to shamelessly promote myself too! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7za4wD.A.qvC.AnMR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5309 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 11:20:59 -0700 X-UIDL: dd4cef60ee2a0f46c6f2f4476c411e73 My new band, Canaveral, will be playing at Brownies in NYC this Friday at 9:30. We have that Sonic Youth/My Bloody Valentine/Slint/June of '44 thing working. You know, just like everybody else. And the first three LD folks to grab me will have the specially priced Rolling Rock of their choice... Trevor From ???@??? Mon Apr 27 09:55:19 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 27 07:27:46 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTosi-0004kH-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 07:27:44 -0700 Message-ID: <35449493.2BFB925@mediaone.net> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:22:11 -0400 From: innerspace@mediaone.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en]C-MOEMW (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Bye for now... References: <199804251559.LAA05251@mail.colba.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"oB6f1D.A.KzD.HSJR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5294 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 07:27:44 -0700 X-UIDL: 69ce6e9314904e15cdf545289ceabe23 goodbye... I' BELIEVE IF WE ALL TOOK A LITTLE LESS TIME TO BE PRODUCTIVE AND MADE A LITTLE MORE TIME FOR LOOPING, THE WORLD WOULD BE AS CIVILIZED AS LOOPERS DELITE.. TAKE CARE D4VID KR15T14N Julia & Dave wrote: > Hi, > > I've been on LD for a while now, and IMHO, it's the most civilized mailing > list I have had the chance of being on.  Unfortunately, my production schedule > has turned me into deadwood.  I only have time to lurk, and even that requires > time I do not have at the moment.  I am unsubscribing for the time being, > hoping to be with you fine people again in the near future. > > Thanks to all and to Kim, for making my stay pleasurable and informative. > > Cheers, > > D 4 V 1 D    K R 1 5 T 1 4 N > --------------------------------------------- > http://www.alien8recordings.com > http://www.urbansounds.com/home/studio/us_instudio.html   From ???@??? Mon Apr 27 09:55:19 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 27 07:32:37 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yToxO-0005Np-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 07:32:34 -0700 Message-ID: <354495A8.8D9DC5F0@mediaone.net> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:26:48 -0400 From: innerspace@mediaone.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en]C-MOEMW (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: IN THE WAY Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------DF27C95441C06B3C7EFAB4B4" Resent-Message-ID: <"vxiBoD.A.vSE.bWJR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5295 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 07:32:34 -0700 X-UIDL: 6c957a88de8369d7f073537683555dda Speaking of simple gear, does anyone feel that the massive ammount of
gear some people use actually get's in the way of the music? It's just I
sometimes get the impression people care more about their gear than
music, or that the creativity generated by the limitations of a small
setup is lost with the mountains of gear people feel is necessary to
their music. I guess it's a bit like a Hollywood movie, where the
explosions and special effects take over and the actors become the set
pieces, only in this case it's the musicians and their gear.

i'VE HAD  A LOT OF TROUBLE DEALING WITH THIS ISSUE ALOT LATELY, AND i'VE FOUND THAT UNLESS EVERY PIECE OF EQUIPMENT HOOKED UP IN AN ENDLESS AND SENSELESS MIDI CHAIN AND YOU PREPROGRAMME THE WHOLE PERFORMANCE THE MUSIC IS STILL A LIVING FORCE BUT THE MINUTE IT ALL GETS LINKED AND THAT BECOMES YER GOAL THE BIG EXPLOSIONS AND HIGH PRICED SPECIAL EFFECTS WILL KILL IT. From ???@??? Mon Apr 27 09:55:20 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 27 07:39:55 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTp4R-0006Ka-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 07:39:51 -0700 Message-ID: <35449755.A3F7985D@mediaone.net> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:33:57 -0400 From: innerspace@mediaone.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en]C-MOEMW (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: (no subject) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------D83B3D78F445725A01F4B517" Resent-Message-ID: <"mzb-SD.A.bNF.JdJR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5296 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 07:39:51 -0700 X-UIDL: 9d9328a6c7eda7d006f33f85f7d4e772 Bill's looping was as always, exciting and
fresh. When I get my DOD dfx98, I'm thinking of
setting it on a stool, playing the knobs and
stealing Bill's gig! Absolutely different from
how I have always approached looping (more the
Fripp/Torn direction).

The ability to change the loop length/pitch with
a simple twist of a knob is something I really
miss with my JamMan. Maybe the EDP will
incorporate this in a later update! Preferably
as an option to be controlled by an expression
pedal.

BOTH LEXICON AND OBERHEIM MUST ADMIT THERE'S SOMETHIN TO BE SAID FOR KNOBS THAT TWIST.  iTS ALMOST LIKE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A TRUE ANALOG SYNTH AND AN ANALOG SYNTH W/ A DIGITAL INTERFACE... THE GOAL IS THE SAME, THE SOUND-WAVES THE SAME, BUT THE SHAPING TOOLS ARE NON-EXISTENT...   lEXICON IS HARDER TO DEAL WITH THAN OBERHEIM WITH THIS PROBLEM, (ALTHOGH THE EDP IS  MAMMOTH!) , iF THE COMPANY WOULD MOVE AWAY FROM NIFTY SAMPLERS THAT ARE DESIGNED TO LOOK GOOD IN YER RIG AND MOVE TOWARDS ADDING EDITING POWER (DECAY, WIDTH & SPEED...REVERSE ETC..) AND DOING SO THROUGH AN INTERFACE THAT IS EASY TO READ AND NAVIGATE IN THE DARK... THEY'D REALLY BE GETTIN' SOMEWHERE. From ???@??? Mon Apr 27 09:55:22 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 27 07:42:56 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTp7P-0006kW-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 07:42:55 -0700 Message-ID: <354497F9.C4872626@mediaone.net> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:36:41 -0400 From: innerspace@mediaone.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en]C-MOEMW (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: .... Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------F50D055498FDEDFC6437B827" Resent-Message-ID: <"EILAN.A.qhF.sfJR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5297 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 07:42:55 -0700 X-UIDL: 07e8249345292641f939d4b52bd4735b In a message dated 4/25/98 4:46:05 PM, dgoat wrote:
>When I get my DOD dfx98, I'm thinking of
>setting it on a stool, playing the knobs and
>stealing Bill's gig! Absolutely different from
>how I have always approached looping (more the
>Fripp/Torn direction).
!!!??!!!
hello?
sorry to take up valuable LD bandwidth (again), but i'm
just aiming at a bit of clarification, here:
rf & i certainly do *not* share an "approach" to our live use of looping, any
more than we share an approach to our guitar-playing.
and:
while i tend to bring more pedals & whatnot to my thing than does the
estimable bf, many of those pedals (and the mixer in my ever-smaller rack) are
dedicated to the live manipulation of loops, as they have been since around
1979-80.
ya know.
i can't be sure what it is ya *think* i might be doing, but i'm pretty sure
there must be some kinda misperception, there.
best,
dt
 

i ACN'T BE SURE WHAT IT IS i THINK i MIGHT BE DOING, i JUST THINK i'M DOIN IT.... MUST BE A LITTLE BIT OF MISPERCEPTION HERE From ???@??? Mon Apr 27 09:55:24 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 27 07:45:50 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTpA9-0007C2-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 07:45:45 -0700 Message-ID: <35449886.2B3104A1@mediaone.net> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:39:03 -0400 From: innerspace@mediaone.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en]C-MOEMW (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: multiple echoplex syncing (was: Hello and Help) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vILXwD.A.tzF.-hJR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5298 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 07:45:45 -0700 X-UIDL: a2207a90809e6a972047f8818d9c7c4a I know this seems mind-numbingly confusing   From ???@??? Mon Apr 27 09:55:24 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 27 07:50:56 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTpF8-00006W-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 07:50:54 -0700 Message-ID: <3544997E.5FD58AC4@mediaone.net> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:43:10 -0400 From: innerspace@mediaone.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en]C-MOEMW (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: another looper release References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"HSqfwB.A.5VG.xlJR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5299 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 07:50:54 -0700 X-UIDL: 4b854c962aeebaeea7d058039faf7d07 DOUG,     i DO NOT CURRENTLY HAVE A CD BUT i'VE GOT TAPES OF *OUR* MUSIC SO THAT WERKS.  aLSO *OUR* MUSEK IS ALL IMPROVISED AND LOOPED AS WELL..... WOULD LOVE TO TRADE*OUR* MUSAKL EXPERIENCES FOR A VIEW OF YER MUSIKL HORIZONS... PLEASE RSVP INNERSPACE@MEDIAONE.NET Doug Wyatt wrote: > Hi all, > > I've just released my CD, "Accidental Beauties".  The majority of the disc > falls into an electronic/soundscape vein (I play keyboards, with bassists > on two tracks and a percussionist on one).  There are also brief forays > into more groovular areas.  The common thread is that most of the pieces' > foundational tracks were improvised. > > Loops are featured in several places.  The title tune opens with a > guitar-like sound processed through a long delay with a lot of > regeneration; the effect is of a gradually evolving loop, with some > crossfades that create tonal shifts.  The guitar-like sounds gradually > dissolve into some more shimmery sounds; a sample of this stage of the loop > then becomes the main background texture for the more rhythmic second half > of the piece. > > In "Bricolage", the first part is composed on top of an improv, but in the > second half, we hear a rhythmic loop of percussive sounds evolve from chaos > in a surprising way, and then locked in and soloed over (with overdubbed > percussion and textural backgrounds). > > Please visit my web site (URL in the sig) for ordering information, sound > samples, and reviews. > > I would be totally into swapping for a CD or tape of *your* music -- just > let me know by email. > > Doug > > -- >  Doug Wyatt                             doug@sonosphere.com >  Sonosphere (electric/improv music)     http://www.sonosphere.com/ >  "Accidental Beauties" CD release:      http://www.sonosphere.com/wyatt/   From ???@??? Mon Apr 27 09:55:26 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 27 07:54:22 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTpIR-0000XR-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 07:54:19 -0700 Message-ID: <35449A99.18C7945D@mediaone.net> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:47:53 -0400 From: innerspace@mediaone.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en]C-MOEMW (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: DOD Dimension 12 review References: <3.0.5.32.19980426123314.007efe00@wavefront.com> <19980425204950.12453.rocketmail@web2.rocketmail.com> <3.0.5.32.19980426165145.008638f0@wavefront.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------CBDF36EE2D809F9D17B023C6" Resent-Message-ID: <"rfwuLB.A.0-G.NqJR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5300 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 07:54:19 -0700 X-UIDL: dca3b28221380f2ffcc8a2c1a172c424 JUST ANOTHER VOTE OF CONFIDENCE IN DOD PRODUCTS AGAIN..
i'LL BE HONEST  AND SAY i'VE NEVER LIKED A SINGLE THING THIS COMPANY  HAS PRODUCED, ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THEIR STINKING STO,MP PEDALS...  UTTER CRAPPOLA AIMED AT DESTROYING MUSICAL CREATIVITY VIA THE CONSUMER MARKET....   UTTER CRAPPOLA.

MUCH RATHER HAVE AN EMU SAMPLER AND SEQUENCER...
 AND WHO'S IDEA WAS IT NOT TO PUT AUDIO SPECS  ON A PROFESSIONAL PIECE OF AUDIO GEAR ANYWAY..

                                                 NEXT...

Chuck Zwicky wrote:

Kim,
 This device has a LONG way to go before it could be very useful to anyone
here. For instance: If you could play 4 samples simultaneously, record and
trim samples while the others played, trigger samples with MIDI or
footswitches,
copy delay loops into samples, reverse the delay while overdubbing, use
audio inputs to trigger samples, even stereo direct signal pass through.

Please imagine what you would like to be able to do with the box in a
performance setting, then re-read the review and this reply.

-Chuck Zwicky
 

>- Does it have any sync functions, to midi clock for example?

NO

>- any display for delay time or anything else useful?

3 digit LED display for time

>- what's the audio quality spec'd at?

No Spec given

>- is the interface intuitive or confusing?

Confusing and idiotic. Pressing one of the 4 front panel buttons selects
(doesn't play) the sample. Pressing two of them clears the memory. With the
modulation unselected, turning the depth knob glitches the audio.

>can the lengths of these samples be independent of each other? Does it let
>you do one 24 second loop, or are you stuck at 6 seconds?

TWO 6 sec can be played simultaneously from one "group", i.e. 1&2 OR 3&4
LENGTH can be independant, however:
You CANNOT listen to one sample while recording another.
You CANNOT overdub on a sample.

>Is there any sort of retriggering?

NO. There is a 'Stutter' button, which alows retriggering, but you have to
SELECT the sample, then tap the stutter button.  There is no way to trigger
all 4 samples quickly.

>any more details on the midi functionality? Does it just replicate the
>front panel buttons?

YES

>Are you able to trigger samples with midi? (although
>triggering them with program change would be a bit different from the way
>any other sampler does it...)

NO
 

>>'Looped' delay cannot be edited, reversed or copied into a Sample location.
>a fluff piece I saw said you could edit sample start/stop points. How well
>does that work?

Fine, as long as playback is stopped. Otherwise it gets locked in a mode
where the loop gets shorter and shorter.
10ms accuracy only.

  From ???@??? Mon Apr 27 09:55:32 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 27 08:35:55 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTpwY-0005Hg-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 08:35:46 -0700 Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 11:27:14 -0400 (EDT) From: VanEyck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Toronto Looping Gig Tonight In-Reply-To: <3544997E.5FD58AC4@mediaone.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"VE-zs.A.REE.zPKR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5301 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 08:35:46 -0700 X-UIDL: bd7b618acefd4e6b2681cad03f7da9f4 Hello, I don't know if any of you are in the Toronto area, but I am involved in a gig tonight that may be of interest... Monday night, Holy Joe's (Above the Reverb) @ Queen + Bathurst KURT SWINGHAMMER ANDREW ALDRIDGE TREVOR SHAIKIN TAMARA WILLIAMSON Start 9:30ish, cover is $3. It should be interesting - guitars, vocals, all improv... Best, TREVOR. VanEyck@interlog.com From ???@??? Mon Apr 27 21:48:05 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 27 14:48:07 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTvkj-0002W5-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:47:57 -0700 Message-ID: <3544B560.9B367105@nyfac.com> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:42:08 +0100 From: tdbajus Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: In defense of Digitech References: <199804272001.NAA09104@scv3.apple.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"hz1acC.A.EWB.NtPR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5319 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:47:57 -0700 X-UIDL: 002c3aa6ec86f2eee64673061f849944 T.W. Hartnett wrote: > I still get a ton of use out of various DOD delays, even with a fully-blown Echoplex. Anyone who's fed up with the DOD/Digitech long delays (4sec+) is welcome to contact me to arrange a sale. > > Travis Hartnett A friend of mine swears that DOD stands for 'Don't Own Dis'. I don't know one way or the other, I just thought I would fan the flames. tdb From ???@??? Mon Apr 27 10:49:07 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 27 10:20:39 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTrZy-0003UE-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:20:34 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:09:44 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: DOD Dimension 12 review Resent-Message-ID: <"3bsPEB.A.V6B.UwLR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5303 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:20:34 -0700 X-UIDL: 1f2e240a41046542a8597eb36eb087f2 >I do believe that looping products in general need to be thought out more >clearly. I believe that who put's out the next one of these babys should >send a few to the very intense loopers in these pages and get their feedback >so hey can learn...and therefore will sell a better product and will sell >more of that better product...taking into consideration that the pricing >would suit the product. >Jeff Collins well, seeing as how there are quite a few looping tool developers and manufacturers ON this list already, and that members of this list have already contributed heavily to the features found in current looping devices, what more would you like to tell them? (or us, as it were) dod is noticeably absent here, and the results are apparent. So *some* manufacturers ought to be paying more attention. Bear in mind that DOD is owned by the same company as lexicon, where looping is a dirty word now.... I imagine that's why they aren't marketing it for looping and are trying to pass it off as some sort of dj product. At the NAMM show I talked with a senior engineer from digitech (another fine Harman company) who on one hand seemed to think that existing digitech products had good looping functions, and on the other hand was completely unaware of the whole RDS/PDS/TimeMachine product line and the degree of interest people still have for those! So don't expect much on that front either.... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Mon Apr 27 10:49:08 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 27 10:31:48 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTrki-00059m-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:31:40 -0700 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199804271720.KAA28595@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: DOD Dimension 12 review To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:20:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <35449A99.18C7945D@mediaone.net> from "innerspace@mediaone.net" at Apr 27, 98 10:47:53 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"QhNzv.A.uWD.E6LR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5304 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:31:40 -0700 X-UIDL: 6601c7b27199587be8057f0c1ad661b6 > MUCH RATHER HAVE AN EMU SAMPLER AND SEQUENCER... And I'd much rather have a Kyma/Capybara setup, but I don't have $4000 right now. :) Paolo From ???@??? Mon Apr 27 10:49:09 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 27 10:34:29 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTrnI-0005YL-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:34:20 -0700 Message-ID: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD02CA0E4@migarexch01.maritz.com> From: "Liebig, Steuart A." To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: DOD Dimension 12 review Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:23:15 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Resent-Message-ID: <"TOrm3D.A.LxD.u8LR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5305 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:34:20 -0700 X-UIDL: 61e593c35d704a4ff0aec0ea536a36e3 > At the NAMM show I talked with a senior engineer from digitech > (another > fine Harman company) who on one hand seemed to think that existing > digitech > products had good looping functions, and on the other hand was > completely > unaware of the whole RDS/PDS/TimeMachine product line and the degree > of > interest people still have for those! So don't expect much on that > front > either.... > > kim > Geesh, What dopes! > ______________________________________________________________________ > Kim Flint | Looper's Delight > kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html > http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > > > From ???@??? Mon Apr 27 21:47:11 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 27 10:54:36 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTs6n-0000lJ-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:54:29 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Ott, John" To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Digitech Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:41:29 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Resent-Message-ID: <"CG5Xw.A.ASG.oNMR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5307 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:54:29 -0700 X-UIDL: 8fc117452078d7b16d36a8c0fa457fd9 Kim Flint wrote: > At the NAMM show I talked with a senior engineer from digitech > (another > fine Harman company) who on one hand seemed to think that existing > digitech > products had good looping functions, and on the other hand was > completely > unaware of the whole RDS/PDS/TimeMachine product line and the degree > of > interest people still have for those! So don't expect much on that > front > either.... > << end quote << The reason I got a Jamman was my Digitech RP-6 did not have enough delay time (800ms not expandable). I liked how the multitap (stereo) delay was set up, though the options were limited. If not for that I would not have bought the jamman. Once I had a jamdude I learned what I was missing. So in a round about way they helped me out. later John From ???@??? Mon Apr 27 21:47:16 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 27 11:02:48 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTsEi-0001zn-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 11:02:40 -0700 From: NEMOGUIT Message-ID: Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:49:56 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Gear and music Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 81 Resent-Message-ID: <"SFgnID.A.UP.XWMR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5308 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 11:02:40 -0700 X-UIDL: eb0e40146c3fcb3362b7e81a3d52a585 if i approach music as, and i hope you all pardon the word,a guitarist, i often find my gear gets in the way of my playing. many nites spent tweeking sounds and delay times and very little (real) playing. but as i go along i get the feeling that my real love in music is the actual manipulation of raw sound, be it a guitar or synth signal or my rambelings into a mic or captured sounds. i find looping an excellent way to meld these two aspects together. being a "rang" user, i do not understand 90% what you jammie-plexie guys are talking about, never having been exposed to these wonderous (deep) boxes. still i will lurk and read your posts and hope that in the future the light of understanding will shine down on me. so loop on and blaze a path to new and more wonderous boxes that will aid in our never ending quest for manipulation. hope you don't mind if i share the ride..................michael From ???@??? Mon Apr 27 09:54:54 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 27 02:13:03 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTjy9-0001NT-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 02:13:01 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980427105336.22376a88@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> X-Sender: pycraft@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:53:36 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: "Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D." Subject: Re: Frisell in Portland (looping content) In-Reply-To: <1c98a9e8.35427ccc@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"vzbvyB.A.5_.gsER1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5292 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 02:13:01 -0700 X-UIDL: 0b62faf2f5e572f36313659f0c89f69d >> By the by, on a completely different guitar geek >> note, does anyone know why Bill was not using >> his Klein? Has he been using it recently live at >> all? >When I saw him a few months ago he was using the Klein mostly and only used >the archtop on a couple tunes. Maybe just trying something different for a >different context Interviewed in Acoustic Guitar a while back he announced that he was using Anderson (-sen?) archtops from Seattle after Gary Larson gave him one for doing the Far Side toon. At the time he said "I'm giving up FX, just me 'n the jazz box" (paraphrased) which seemed to be a renouncement of Looping (rather distressing at the time); good to see sense has got the better of him and he's now looping the jazz box.... Michael From ???@??? Mon Apr 27 21:47:20 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 27 11:20:31 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTsVq-0004cy-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 11:20:22 -0700 Message-ID: <3544C97F.C6F3EE88@jps.net> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 11:07:59 -0700 From: Roland Eberle X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: DOD Dimension 12 review References: <3.0.5.32.19980426123314.007efe00@wavefront.com> <19980425204950.12453.rocketmail@web2.rocketmail.com> <3.0.5.32.19980426165145.008638f0@wavefront.com> <35449A99.18C7945D@mediaone.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"KgcJFB.A.MxC.JnMR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5310 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 11:20:22 -0700 X-UIDL: b6ebec202da4d146eb96cee77e9b6926 innerspace@mediaone.net wrote: > UTTER CRAPPOLA. > > Please..stop shouting. From ???@??? Mon Apr 27 21:47:22 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 27 11:26:39 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTsbs-0005Z3-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 11:26:36 -0700 From: MIvanBerk Message-ID: <641f31d7.3544ca7e@aol.com> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:12:13 EDT To: nyfac2@nyfac.com, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: DOD Dimension 12 review Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 85 Resent-Message-ID: <"tfgdI.A.qlD.isMR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5311 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 11:26:36 -0700 X-UIDL: 3ed28654585ace2d89d20933423bc536 In a message dated 4/27/98 1:40:16 PM, Trevor wrote: <> The PDS 8000 (Echo Plus)is much the same as the RDS 8000 (Time Machine), except for the fact that the PDS pedal doesn't have an LFO (and thus doesn't have any modulation section). Otherwise, it's a great little piece of gear -- definitely the most portable looper around, excepting of course the EH 16-sec, which offers more features, but is a bit pricey and fragile to be carried about). And they're cheap on the used market -- around or under $200 most of the time. They're distinctly better than the DFX94/98 series, in that there's a separate footswitch on the Echo Plus for hold/loop functions -- on the DFX, you need to turn a knob to put the pedal into sample mode, then a press of the single footswitch triggers the hold. Pretty inconvenient as a floor pedal, that is to say. -mike From ???@??? Mon Apr 27 21:47:37 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 27 12:06:36 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTtEW-0003ac-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:06:32 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980427135243.007fc440@wavefront.com> X-Sender: chuck.zwicky@wavefront.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:52:43 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chuck Zwicky Subject: Re: DOD Dimension 12 review Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"7dXGsC.A.c1B.YSNR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5313 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:06:32 -0700 X-UIDL: b338a56d3d4337992029aff1a7d0f0e6 Two more things, The input circuit has a nice sounding overload. There is no bypass function. Nowhere. From ???@??? Mon Apr 27 21:47:42 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 27 12:26:17 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTtXO-00061e-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:26:02 -0700 Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:16:00 -0400 (EDT) From: David Talento X-Sender: legion@omni1 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Re: DOD Dimension 12 review In-Reply-To: <641f31d7.3544ca7e@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"CtQo_D.A.ScE.emNR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5314 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:26:02 -0700 X-UIDL: 6b584ca9f73e62aaccc5b7d964627556 > < am under the impression that PDS is the RDS in pedal form, although I > have no evidence to support this.>> > > The PDS 8000 (Echo Plus)is much the same as the RDS 8000 (Time > Machine), except for the fact that the PDS pedal doesn't have an LFO > (and thus doesn't have any modulation section). Otherwise, it's a great > little piece of gear -- don't forget that are at least three different generations of RDS machines. Off the top of my head I remember these (I hope I'm gettined 'em more of less right!) The first was black with blue/grey trim and had large grey buttons and rates of 900, 1900, 3600 I believe. These are still around cheap but for some reason are often missing the buttons. I'd be curious if anyone has found a source for replacements. Then there were the black with dark blue and slimline black buttons which were slightly better noise spec. Later versions of these added a switch for triggering the "loop" you saved. Times were changed to 3900 MS on some of these and they added the 7900 (8?) sec unit somewhere in here as well. I have one of these without the trigger button but it does have a button for hold that doesn't appear on any other unit. I believe I have the 3600 so they mixed and matched tiome quite a bit during this phase. The final series was the white faced units which had the trigger and were in 2,4 and 8 sec increments. I think this then led into the DPwhatever series and they stopped making specific delays. this unit looks like other digitech stuff of the time (Metal Machine, HM Harmonizer, etc). All the RDS units have a speed, width, and depth knob plus in and out, feedback, level and a mix type knob. Some have invert buttons (I think this was added in the second series) and a 1/4" invert out as well. also before the PDS2000 "echomachine" there was the PDS1002 a 2 second digital delay with infinite repeat. This has got to me the most versitle and affordable delay pedal ever made. Used these show up for $75 a lot which is a great price/performance ration IMO. as said above the PDS pedals only have a switch for range (0-50, 50-500, 500-2000 MS) and knobs for delay time, regneration, in and out, and mix (again going from memory). Quite honestly the in and outs don't do too much on these. years ago I threw one at my guitar player and sheared these two knobs off. I've never noticed a difference (I don't reccomed thorwing them BTW I'm not a role model...) If anyone's *really* interested I could try and dig up all my old digitech catalogs. I remember studying the RDS series when i had no money and they kept changing them every year so i never could decide what to get... ----------------------------------------------------------------------- HELP WANTED PRODUCTIONS - Http://www.voicenet.com/~legion "Bringing you the best in Organic Electronic music since we started..." Home of the Unusual Instrument and Recording Gallery with pictures and info of Tube recorders, Omnichords, weird guitars, Casios, and more. From ???@??? Mon Apr 27 21:47:45 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 27 12:31:26 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTtcV-0006lm-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:31:19 -0700 X-Sender: doug@mail.lightlink.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <01bd720b$f2b38560$ef004382@pentium-200> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:22:17 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Doug Wyatt Subject: Re: Samplers 101 Resent-Message-ID: <"4RrHzB.A.5CF.zqNR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5315 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:31:19 -0700 X-UIDL: 70a89f650ccc877f9f8049a48c556877 At 20:40 +0200 4/27/98, Woehni wrote: > Could you explain to me the basics of a sampler?? Like: how it works , >what can be done with it , how they are used in homestudio setups , what I >can do with a sampler and a computer , names and brands of good samplers >and wha I should expect to pay on the used market.............and so >forth......... Yup, a sampler is a little digital audio recorder/player. Generally a sampler can: - record audio from an analog or digital in, transfer samples over SCSI or MIDI to a computer, save/load the sounds on a SCSI drive (or CD-ROM). - given a raw recording (sample), specify where to start playing, where to stop, where to begin and end looping (if at all, forward/backwards/both). - truncate (like cropping in a graphics program, getting rid of the portions of the sample that you're not using), normalize (make the signal as loud as it can be without clipping), compress, equalize, mix audio, etc etc etc. - combine multiple samples by layering them or spreading them across the keyboard, dealing with how their pitches relate to the keys struck - VCF, VCA, LFO and performance control over them, just like a synth - assigning patches to MIDI channels, transposing, volume, panning I think of a sampler as a way to grab some sound, loop it if I like and mess with the pitch, amplitude, and timbre (as much as one can with a VCF) dynamically. Samplers are great for drum sounds, capturing loops, and just about anything you'd want to use a MIDI-controlled sound generator for. However, I don't particularly use my S-760 as a synth; I have other devices with better filters and more control. Notes on various models: The EPS-16 has what I consider perhaps the best user interface ever designed when it comes to using keyboards in live performance. You can have 8 instruments which are mapped to either internal sounds or MIDI transmit channels, specify a key range for each one, toggle them on and off, and create presets with combinations of enabled instruments and keyboard splits/transposing. It's also pretty easy to find used ones at decent prices. The sound quality isn't quite what you'd get in a new device however. The S-760's ability to hook up an external mouse and monitor are wonderful (you need to buy the expansion board to do this, but it also gives you extra ins/outs). The con of the S-760 is that it's not one of the more popular ones (Emu and Akai?), so if you'll be buying your sounds, you'll find less of a selection. But if you're making your own sounds, give it a look. A friend loves his Kurzweil K2000 (now there's the 2500) because it's also a fantastically flexible synth. I almost went that route, but the 2000's limited polyphony (perhaps addressed in the 2500?) turned me off, plus there was something a little lifeless about some of the factory sounds. I know people with Akais and Emus who seem to like them. The Emu fans seem to like the filters in particular. There are now samplers that run on your computer. On the Mac there's VSamp (see http://www.kagi.com/smaug/vsamp/ ) and I imagine there's something similar for Windows. It's been awhile since I checked it out. You're subject to the computer's often less-than-stellar sound hardware, but it might be a fun and easy way to get an idea for what the technology can and can't do. Feel free to ask more! That's all I have time to type right now. Doug -- Doug Wyatt doug@sonosphere.com Sonosphere (electric/improv music) http://www.sonosphere.com/ "Accidental Beauties" CD release: http://www.sonosphere.com/wyatt/ From ???@??? Mon Apr 27 21:47:50 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 27 12:42:37 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTtnQ-0000eo-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:42:36 -0700 Message-ID: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD02CA0E7@migarexch01.maritz.com> From: "Liebig, Steuart A." To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Re: DOD Dimension 12 review Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:32:42 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Resent-Message-ID: <"EV9zX.A.trG.S2NR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5316 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:42:36 -0700 X-UIDL: c91e13b22ac6e50619112396c86ab70a To ad to this . . . I have two RDS-8000s. One is black-face, one is silver-face. I believe that they both say time machine somewhere on the face, but I could be mistaken. Also, I think that they both have Normal, Trigger and Sample switches on the front. This switch can choose the mode when operated with a footswitch or the button on the front for bypass. stig > The final series was the white faced units which had the trigger and > were > in 2,4 and 8 sec increments. I think this then led into the DPwhatever > series and they stopped making specific delays. this unit looks like > other > digitech stuff of the time (Metal Machine, HM Harmonizer, etc). > > > > > From ???@??? Mon Apr 27 21:48:02 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 27 14:34:31 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTvXZ-0000XY-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:34:21 -0700 Message-Id: <199804272001.NAA09104@scv3.apple.com> Subject: In defense of Digitech Date: Mon, 27 Apr 98 15:02:47 -0500 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"l1Oz7C.A.3qG.TfPR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5318 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:34:21 -0700 X-UIDL: 323b4e53da09962d332e9064145fe645 >Hi! Your Caps Lock button's been left on! > >>i'LL BE HONESTÊ AND SAY i'VE NEVER LIKED A SINGLE THING THIS COMPANYÊ HAS >>PRODUCED, ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THEIR STINKING STO,MP PEDALS...Ê UTTER CRAPPOLA >>AIMED AT DESTROYING MUSICAL CREATIVITY VIA THE CONSUMER MARKET....ÊÊ UTTER >>CRAPPOLA. I still get a ton of use out of various DOD delays, even with a fully-blown Echoplex. They've had a variety of long delays in pedal and rackmount form, most of which can be found on the used market today for well under $200. And they're the only company I know of that still produces an 8 second delay in a pedal (although they've been tardy in shipping it, I'm sure it'll be out in the next month or so). The stuff is cheap and easily accessible, and also lacks the ability to "DESTROY MUSICAL CREATIVITY VIA THE CONSUMER MARKET". Anyone who's fed up with the DOD/Digitech long delays (4sec+) is welcome to contact me to arrange a sale. Travis Hartnett From ???@??? Mon Apr 27 21:47:56 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 27 13:24:55 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTuSA-0006jL-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:24:42 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Ott, John" To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Samplers 101 Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:13:49 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Resent-Message-ID: <"5Yq6C.A.J-E.xcOR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5317 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:24:42 -0700 X-UIDL: 3ad77ea688fd53d166dd9aef1ba2fd4f >>>doug wrote: There are now samplers that run on your computer. On the Mac there's VSamp (see http://www.kagi.com/smaug/vsamp/ ) and I imagine there's something similar for Windows. It's been awhile since I checked it out. You're subject to the computer's often less-than-stellar sound hardware, but it might be a fun and easy way to get an idea for what the technology can and can't do. <From kflint Mon Apr 27 15:08:33 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTw4V-0005LE-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:08:23 -0700 Sender: mpeters@csi.com Message-ID: <01BD7238.036B2350.mpeters@csi.com> From: Michael Peters To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: AW: time stretching Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 23:47:10 +0200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-Mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4FTSTC.A.UyD.e-PR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5320 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:08:23 -0700 X-UIDL: 88f838551803350bafd62c676f55f956 hi Dave, > Arboretum Systems Hyperprism has very good sounding time-stretching thanks for the info ... is that a Mac or PC program? I have a PC. >I have done some extreme time stretching >on wind instruments, one piece with oboes slowed to 1% of their original >speed, a 10 second phrase took about 4 minutes to plat through, and there >were surprisingly few artifacts from the processing. wonderful... just what I need. michael peters mpeters@csi.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Mpeters/ >From music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu Mon Apr 27 15:12:00 1998 From ???@??? Mon Apr 27 21:48:22 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 27 15:33:23 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTwSd-000141-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:33:19 -0700 Message-ID: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD02CA0E8@migarexch01.maritz.com> From: "Liebig, Steuart A." To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: THE TOP 5! Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:06:16 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Resent-Message-ID: <"ucBx9.A.3vG.uTQR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5324 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:33:19 -0700 X-UIDL: 86cf43e6cbfe1a86e4b30b051c872154 I've basically been able to get my whole looping and effects pedal set up (EH 16 including foot controller, plus three fuzz pedals, trem and uni-vibe clone) into a backpack style lap-top computer case. (These cases are extra padded to protect against drops, and seem to be well worth the cost BTW.) The mobility is great (easily transported and no hassle on the airline when going to NYC), much better that the two plus racks of effects gear plus fuzzes that I used to carry around. Only drawback, no stereo (fewer back problems though). > I have also recently begun to create a 2nd, much > more simplified electric rig. No racks allowed! > Just the DOD dfx98 pedal for loops (when I get > it!), the DOD volume/wah pedal, some sort of > modulation pedal and a fuzz box, running into a > new Fender Princeton. Guitarist in a suitcase! > > 93 > > Rev. DOubt-Goat From ???@??? Mon Apr 27 21:48:25 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 27 16:05:34 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTwNF-0000IR-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:27:45 -0700 From: "Woehni" To: Subject: SV: Samplers 101 Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 00:12:58 +0200 Message-ID: <01bd7229$a2e53d80$eb004382@pentium-200> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"AziPMB.A.h6F.DOQR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5321 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:27:45 -0700 X-UIDL: 156ed65dff598bfe4654c8832e560557 Hi Doug , thanks for the insights!! I`m getting closer now :-) As always , when I learn something I`m filled with new questions..........here they are: > >- record audio from an analog or digital in, transfer samples over SCSI or >MIDI to a computer, save/load the sounds on a SCSI drive (or CD-ROM). > SCSI?? is that an interface?? I have a iomega zip drive , does that fall under the SCSI umbrella?? >- given a raw recording (sample), specify where to start playing, where to >stop, where to begin and end looping (if at all, forward/backwards/both). If the sample is 30 secs long , can I tell the sampler to loop from , say, the 5th second to the 15th??? >- truncate (like cropping in a graphics program, getting rid of the >portions of the sample that you're not using), normalize (make the signal >as loud as it can be without clipping), compress, equalize, mix audio, etc >etc etc. > Can all this be done without a screen/monitor??? I`ve seen pictures of some Akai samplers and there didnt seem to be any monitor on that....... >- combine multiple samples by layering them or spreading them across the >keyboard, dealing with how their pitches relate to the keys struck > >- VCF, VCA, LFO and performance control over them, just like a synth > I dont know these terms , if its not too much info I`d like to learn what they mean. I have seen a used Akai s 950 , s 900 and s 1000 samplers. Are they any good?? Im thinking of making some mainstream Trip hop techno stuff.......kinda like Prodigy , only with guitars in there too....... Can I do something in that direction with one of these samplers ??? Thanks for everything , you saved my day! Yours , Thomas From ???@??? Mon Apr 27 21:48:17 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 27 15:30:05 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTwPJ-0000a2-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:29:53 -0700 From: "Woehni" To: Subject: SV: Samplers 101 Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 00:14:01 +0200 Message-ID: <01bd7229$c81532e0$eb004382@pentium-200> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"cFaf0B.A.QHG.YPQR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5322 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:29:53 -0700 X-UIDL: 5e88e917184e978e90edf1605ba45033 -----Opprinnelig melding----- Fra: Ott, John Til: 'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com' Dato: 27. april 1998 22:25 Emne: RE: Samplers 101 >>>>doug wrote: >There are now samplers that run on your computer. On the Mac there's >VSamp >(see http://www.kagi.com/smaug/vsamp/ ) and I imagine there's something >similar for Windows. It's been awhile since I checked it out. You're >subject to the computer's often less-than-stellar sound hardware, but it >might be a fun and easy way to get an idea for what the technology can >and >can't do. > > < > > Another software sampler is called LISA (for the Mac) > > I've downloaded the demo, but have not played with > it yet. > > later > John Have you heard about something called SampleCell??? I believe its a comp. sampler?? From ???@??? Mon Apr 27 21:48:19 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 27 15:31:24 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTwQc-0000lh-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:31:14 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:14:36 -0700 Message-ID: <000C80FB.----@wj.com> From: Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle) Subject: Re[2]: In defense of Digitech To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, tdbajus Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"F7Zm7D.A.FVG.1QQR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5323 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:31:14 -0700 X-UIDL: 1a37b5343fbd7a4b84c87f7cd43bcaca OK... this one's on topic cause it's about my (almost) first looper. The Digitech IPS33B was in my rack for 6 or 7 years when it finally crapped out. I know it only had around 2 secs of delay, but I was throwing out clouds of sound like they were going out of style. This box does whammy and smart pitch stuff; has great parameters for attaching controllers; and sounded good. It went back to Digitech a couple times previously and they (used to) fix them for the price of shipping. Now they charge. They did the same for me with my PMC10 Midi controller pedal. All in all, Digitech has been very good to me. I wonder if dt still uses his 33B...? I may send it back one more time to bring it back from the dead cause I want that old whammy stuff and don't necessarily want to purchase the pedal version. Before that, my very first "looper" was a Roland SDE3000 on an AB box. It could go 3 secs with the multiply knob. I'd stomp on the AB to shoot my signal off to cloudland. BTW: I had a PDS 8000? It was the 8 second one. It seemed like a cool pedal, but I already had a Jammer w/32 and didn't have the same degree of loop sickness I have now. I would probably be a nice box to have in the bag, just for laughs. T.W. I still get a ton of use out of various DOD delays, even with a fully-blown Echoplex. Anyone who's fed up with the DOD/Digitech long delays (4sec+) is welcome to contact me to arrange a sale. Trevor...A friend of mine swears that DOD stands for 'Don't Own Dis'. I don't know one way or the other, I just thought I would fan the flames. tdb From ???@??? Mon Apr 27 21:48:41 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 27 18:34:14 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTzHW-0001dC-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:34:02 -0700 X-Sender: doug@mail.lightlink.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <01bd7229$c81532e0$eb004382@pentium-200> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 19:10:37 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Doug Wyatt Subject: Re: SV: Samplers 101 Resent-Message-ID: <"kdGm-B.A.ld.oATR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5327 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:34:02 -0700 X-UIDL: 0e2400fa9da3017ff3dce437e11d51dd At 0:14 +0200 4/28/98, Woehni wrote: > Have you heard about something called SampleCell??? I believe its >a comp. sampler?? SampleCell is a NuBus card (I *think* there's a PCI version???) by Digidesign. It's basically a full-blown, pro sampler on your Mac, with the benefit of being able to store all your audio files on the computer -- no need for dedicated storage peripherals for the computer. Supposedly the user interface is pretty nice. Some people have had to go to some lengths to avoid computer interference in their audio, but maybe that was solved. The only big drawback is that you can't take it to a gig without bringing your computer. Doug -- Doug Wyatt doug@sonosphere.com Sonosphere (electric/improv music) http://www.sonosphere.com/ "Accidental Beauties" CD release: http://www.sonosphere.com/wyatt/ From ???@??? Mon Apr 27 21:48:42 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 27 18:34:30 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTzHi-0001eP-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:34:14 -0700 X-Sender: doug@mail.lightlink.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <01bd7229$a2e53d80$eb004382@pentium-200> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 19:26:07 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Doug Wyatt Subject: Re: SV: Samplers 101 Resent-Message-ID: <"y9BYXB.A.3d.qATR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5328 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:34:14 -0700 X-UIDL: f3448cc23f621fa1e9d7485d4f8920f6 At 0:12 +0200 4/28/98, Woehni wrote: > Hi Doug , thanks for the insights!! Thomas, You're welcome. > I`m getting closer now :-) As always , when I learn something I`m filled >with new questions..........here they are: > > > >- record audio from an analog or digital in, transfer samples over SCSI or > >MIDI to a computer, save/load the sounds on a SCSI drive (or CD-ROM). > > > SCSI?? is that an interface?? I have a iomega zip drive , does that >fall under the SCSI > umbrella?? Well, if you're a Mac guy, most everything is SCSI, including your Zip drive, so it sounds like you have a PC. I have a feeling that PC Zip drives are not SCSI. The mass storage situation is a bit special for each sampler..... with my Roland, there's a list of drives (including CD drives and removables) they support. > >- given a raw recording (sample), specify where to start playing, where to > >stop, where to begin and end looping (if at all, forward/backwards/both). > > If the sample is 30 secs long , can I tell the sampler to loop from , >say, the 5th second to the > 15th??? Yes. On the samplers I've used, time is measured in samples (44100 per second or whatever other sampling rate you use). > >- truncate (like cropping in a graphics program, getting rid of the > >portions of the sample that you're not using), normalize (make the signal > >as loud as it can be without clipping), compress, equalize, mix audio, etc > >etc etc. > > > Can all this be done without a screen/monitor??? I`ve seen pictures of >some Akai samplers > and there didnt seem to be any monitor on that....... The Roland's front panel is very tiny and yet I can do a few things on it without a monitor, spoiled as I am. I believe the Akai's have larger displays, and yes, you can do everything from the front panels. > >- combine multiple samples by layering them or spreading them across the > >keyboard, dealing with how their pitches relate to the keys struck > > > >- VCF, VCA, LFO and performance control over them, just like a synth > > > I dont know these terms , if its not too much info I`d like to learn what >they mean. VCF = voltage controlled filter, VCA = voltage controlled amplifier, LFO = low frequency oscillator. "voltage controlled" is an antique term now, I suppose, since most devices are digital. The filter is usually a lowpass/highpass/bandpass, with resonance, and an envelope -- a changing cutoff frequency over time. The "amplifier" is just an old-fashioned way of talking about control over loudness over time and in response to how hard a MIDI key is struck. > I have seen a used Akai s 950 , s 900 and s 1000 samplers. Are they any >good?? The 900 is only 12 bit and might have some other funky limitations; a former bandmate has one. They're good though, just a bit old. So's the EPS I mentioned. You'll need some way of controlling an Akai via MIDI; they're all rack mount. The EPS, K2000 and some E-mu's have keyboards. > Im thinking of making some mainstream Trip hop techno stuff.......kinda >like Prodigy , > only with guitars in there too....... Can I do something in that >direction with one of these > samplers ??? Sure, all you gotta do is buy, make or otherwise acquire good samples and trigger them nicely :-) I'd be happy to type some more later, if you have more questions, but maybe we should move this off list because it's not particularly loopy (until we start talking about sampling loops and looping samples :-) ). Doug -- Doug Wyatt doug@sonosphere.com Sonosphere (electric/improv music) http://www.sonosphere.com/ "Accidental Beauties" CD release: http://www.sonosphere.com/wyatt/ From ???@??? Mon Apr 27 09:55:40 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 27 09:26:51 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTqjy-0003rm-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 09:26:50 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980427180400.279fa288@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> X-Sender: pycraft@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:04:00 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: "Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D." Subject: Re: DOD Dimension 12 review In-Reply-To: <35449A99.18C7945D@mediaone.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19980426123314.007efe00@wavefront.com> <19980425204950.12453.rocketmail@web2.rocketmail.com> <3.0.5.32.19980426165145.008638f0@wavefront.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"zpJs2D.A.6tC.IALR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5302 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 09:26:50 -0700 X-UIDL: 1ae66300f7655c8a519f6fb356c09b43 >JUST ANOTHER VOTE OF CONFIDENCE IN DOD PRODUCTS AGAIN.. Hi! Your Caps Lock button's been left on! >i'LL BE HONESTÊ AND SAY i'VE NEVER LIKED A SINGLE THING THIS COMPANYÊ HAS >PRODUCED, ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THEIR STINKING STO,MP PEDALS...Ê UTTER CRAPPOLA >AIMED AT DESTROYING MUSICAL CREATIVITY VIA THE CONSUMER MARKET....ÊÊ UTTER >CRAPPOLA. Hell, they're cheap.... besides, I swear by (not at, by) my DOD analogue delay from waaay back. I don't know why, but it just does gorgeous things to guitar tone. I'd greatly miss it if it...went. Yer pays yer money, and if yer've not much money then DOD are as good as any - unless you've some suggestions of any companies I've overlooked. >MUCH RATHER HAVE AN EMU SAMPLER AND SEQUENCER... ....at several thousand dollars, no? Michael From ???@??? Mon Apr 27 21:48:40 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 27 18:20:10 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTz3x-0007QH-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:20:01 -0700 Message-ID: <19980428010401.1941.rocketmail@web1.rocketmail.com> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:04:01 -0700 (PDT) From: "Rev. Doubt-Goat" Subject: RE: Digitech To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"FjkRTB.A.oGG.60SR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5325 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:20:01 -0700 X-UIDL: 7c9335f39e9c886a5c4c5eaa1103ebeb 93 ---"Ott, John" wrote: > The reason I got a Jamman was my Digitech RP-6 did not have > enough delay time (800ms not expandable). I liked how > the multitap (stereo) delay was set up, though the options were > limited. If not for that I would not have bought the jamman. > Once I had a jamdude I learned what I was missing. The only reason I ditched my Time Machine from my looping rack was that the locked in loops would pitch drift, which about drove me nuts. I still wish my JamMan had some of the TM features! Like modulation, pitch tuning knobs, infinite repeat, etc. 93 Da Goat _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From ???@??? Mon Apr 27 21:48:42 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 27 18:53:43 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTzaS-0004IR-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:53:36 -0700 From: Trinitymid Message-ID: Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:46:22 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: CD-rom samples Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 62 Resent-Message-ID: <"JXs3aB.A.KMD.XUTR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5329 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:53:36 -0700 X-UIDL: a56f6409fc3e7c57e21d4ae08191e586 Does anyone know of a program that will take cd-rom nonaudio format samples and place them on a 3.5 disk. I have a hole bunch of samples for my sampler but no external CD-rom drive. thanks, chris trinitymid@aol.com From ???@??? Mon Apr 27 21:48:44 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 27 19:13:42 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yTztq-0006hS-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 19:13:38 -0700 From: Crossedout Message-ID: Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 22:08:15 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: SV: Samplers 101 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Resent-Message-ID: <"jgN0JB.A.8tF._oTR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5330 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 19:13:38 -0700 X-UIDL: 5a8aefabe6f0bdd14c231da21f8e637e In a message dated 98-04-27 21:32:54 EDT, you write: << I believe the Akai's have larger displays, and yes, you can do everything from the front panels. >> Speaking only for my Akai, the MPC 2000, yeah, it has a pretty large display, and you can do a surprising amount of processing to the sample visually (i.e. looking at the wave form, rather than going strictly by ear). Does anybody have any particular opinions on the MPC 2000? I really love mine, and find it extremely easy to use, but I've heard non-specific negative rumblings from others about them. (on the order of "oh, you went with the Akai? that's too bad", without going into any reasons). - Bill Crossedout@aol.com http://members.aol.com/crossedout/index.htm From ???@??? Mon Apr 27 21:48:56 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 27 20:16:22 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yU0sR-0005Zw-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 20:16:15 -0700 From: "Woehni" To: Subject: Samplers 101, going private? Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 05:07:13 +0200 Message-ID: <01bd7252$be13df20$ba014382@pentium-200> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"yBTQdD.A.UcE.6hUR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5331 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 20:16:15 -0700 X-UIDL: a46a92cb2b69708e1ed64f937a935a0e >I'd be happy to type some more later, if you have more questions, but maybe >we should move this off list because it's not particularly loopy (until we >start talking about sampling loops and looping samples :-) ). > >Doug > Well , I`m learing something frome every post you`ve sendt so Im happy to have this dialogue anywhere. But , I see your point. So how about it folks , let us know if we should go private on this. Yours , Thomas From ???@??? Mon Apr 27 21:48:58 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 27 20:23:31 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yU0zR-0006Y2-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 20:23:29 -0700 From: "Woehni" To: Subject: Simple rig (was THE TOP 5!) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 05:13:44 +0200 Message-ID: <01bd7253$a73592c0$ba014382@pentium-200> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"OhhxBC.A.EPF.-nUR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5332 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 20:23:29 -0700 X-UIDL: 125fba55f1ecaaa6f3ad2822129b7247 >I've basically been able to get my whole looping and effects pedal set >up (EH 16 including foot controller, plus three fuzz pedals, trem and >uni-vibe clone) into a backpack style lap-top computer case. (These >cases are extra padded to protect against drops, and seem to be well >worth the cost BTW.) The mobility is great (easily transported and no >hassle on the airline when going to NYC), much better that the two plus >racks of effects gear plus fuzzes that I used to carry around. Only >drawback, no stereo (fewer back problems though). > Sounds like a great idea with the computerbag....I always wondered how I could make my pedals transportable........ My simple-setup: 2-unit rackbag (rocktron) wich contains a Jamman and a Vortex. 1 Rat distortionpedal 1 Ernieball passive vomlumepedal 1 roland ev-5 expressionpedal some switches to control the stuff........ This works great whenever there are amplifiers on the scene where im playing/rehearsing etc. From ???@??? Mon Apr 27 21:49:04 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 27 21:16:30 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yU1oj-00043J-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:16:29 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980428040536.00986c80@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:05:36 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: SV: Samplers 101 Resent-Message-ID: <"JF3cpC.A.3BD.nZVR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5333 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:16:29 -0700 X-UIDL: 2f478b38192275e73a0f41ac0775bca3 At 10:08 PM 4/27/98 EDT, Crossedout wrote: >Does anybody have any particular opinions on the MPC 2000? I really love mine, >and find it extremely easy to use, but I've heard non-specific negative >rumblings from others about them. (on the order of "oh, you went with the >Akai? that's too bad", without going into any reasons). I think it depends on who you talk to and how they approach using samplers. The MPC is really oriented towards a standalone, real-time, live sort of approach, with a great built-in sequencer and lots of pads, buttons, and knobs for real-time use. People who work that way seem to like it a lot. (hip-hop producers, for instance). Compared to the drum machines that somebody like that might normally use, the MPC is killer. The grumbling comes from the more studio oriented types who naturally compare it to a traditional sampler. People who care about the # of voices, sample editing features, filters and effects, etc., tend to put down the MPC, because it is fairly limited in those areas. I think that's kinda dumb, because it doesn't try to compete with those devices. for people here, mostly being into a more real-time, live approach, the MPC2000 would seem like a great complement to some of the typical audio loopers. I think it can let you take a much more improvised approach to sequenced tracks. I've seriously considered getting one for those reasons, to take the place of drum machines I've used in the past. The standalone part would be nice too, since my home-office needs and my home-studio needs have diverged greatly, and having one computer for both is now impossible. A standalone sampler/sequencer device would allow me to put off the horrifying possibility of buying yet another computer. I've heard a number of people say that the MPC2000 is vastly improved by adding the multiple ouputs board and the effects board. Of course, once you do that it costs as much as the more expensive samplers. nice to hear another vote of confidence in it, I haven't decided what I want to do, and had been somewhat influenced away from it. Now I'm drifting back. kim _______________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 Mpact Systems Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Tue Apr 28 00:35:12 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 27 21:54:53 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yU2Pr-0007ib-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:54:51 -0700 From: NEMOGUIT Message-ID: <6420cfad.35455f92@aol.com> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 00:48:17 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: we are a polite little group Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 81 Resent-Message-ID: <"4u7sYD.A.EvG.F_VR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5334 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:54:51 -0700 X-UIDL: 11d17dfba3536f2f2f7696de013f4287 i was thinking this as i drove home from work to-nite: go up to 99.9% of the folks out there and ask, " do you know of a program that can take the song of a bird and slow it down and not change its pitch so i can..................." we are a bit left of mainstream. i may not understand you but im glad your there.........thanks...............michael From ???@??? Tue Apr 28 10:37:14 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 28 02:41:02 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yU6sm-0003jX-00; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 02:41:00 -0700 Message-ID: Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Raul Bonell Tomas" Organization: Universidad Politecnica To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 11:35:38 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Jamman memory chips, where? Reply-to: rauboto@eui.upv.es Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Resent-Message-ID: <"59j-BD.A._MD.xMaR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5337 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 02:41:00 -0700 X-UIDL: a07427dcd4489484f0b96d7788c445bf dear friends I'd be very grateful if some among you should tell me where to find (net shops!?) the memory chips for upgrading a Jamman. Sorry if this has been asked various times before, but I couldn't read the info. I supose, private answers are better this time: rauboto@eui.upv.es Thanks in advance! raul. From ???@??? Tue Apr 28 10:37:37 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 28 06:56:19 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUArq-00022w-00; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 06:56:18 -0700 Message-ID: <3545DE48.FB0698DE@vm.temple.edu> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 09:48:56 -0400 From: Sean O'Donnell Reply-To: sodonne@vm.temple.edu Organization: Temple University Center for Research in Human Development and Education X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rauboto@eui.upv.es CC: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Jamman memory chips, where? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"nrpqZB.A.ZSB.L5dR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5338 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 06:56:18 -0700 X-UIDL: ce6109e4e950c3cc9ef9f5a6f6fd99ed Raul and Loopers, You can max out a JamMan with memory from DMS, Inc. for $40. I've used mine daily for six months with DMS chips with no problems. Do not buy memory from Lexicon. It's incredibly overpriced and there's no reason to support them since it seems that they've abandoned looping. If DMS no longer carries them, check out RAMWATCH online at . Here's the info for DMS: DMS, Inc. Phone:(800) 662-7466 Fax: (603) 898-6585 Regards, Sean Raul Bonell Tomas wrote: > > dear friends > > I'd be very grateful if some among you should tell me > where to find (net shops!?) the memory chips for > upgrading a Jamman. > > Sorry if this has been asked various times before, > but I couldn't read the info. > > I supose, private answers are better this time: > > rauboto@eui.upv.es > > Thanks in advance! > > raul. From ???@??? Tue Apr 28 10:37:44 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 28 07:27:35 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUBM6-0004zY-00; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 07:27:34 -0700 From: KRosser414 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 10:21:09 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Microtonality Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Resent-Message-ID: <"JOuGoD.A.8EE.6XeR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5339 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 07:27:34 -0700 X-UIDL: 95ba922b4ee42d0be1140ab8b536dc20 In a message dated 98-04-28 01:43:38 EDT, you write: << Has anyone on this list ever listened to microtonal music? Yes. Played it too. >Do you like microtonal music? Depends on the execution thereof. I did a tour last year playing guitar with a Persian rock & roll band and the two keyboard players had synths that were programmed to play in microtones. A very common mode they would use would be the equivalent of the western phrygian mode but with the b2nd played 50 cents sharp. The first time I heard that I flipped, it was really beautiful especially in the chordal applications. One challenge it posed to me was that, say the song was in G, I'd have to go through and make sure I didn't play any Ab's in my chord voicings, as they would clash with the keys being a quarter tone sharp. Got me to thinking about how much fun a fretless guitar would be, especially if you really learned how to nail those pitches between the cracks dead on. The chinese pipa, which I studied for years, does make some use of microtones, mostly in the way of expressive devices like bends, so it's not purely 'microtonal' in that sense, no more than delta blues for that matter Ken R From ???@??? Tue Apr 28 22:03:06 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 28 13:47:07 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUHHH-0005GX-00; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:46:59 -0700 Message-ID: <3545F196.C2044E7B@nyfac.com> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:11:19 +0100 From: tdbajus Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: AW: we are a polite little group References: <01BD72E4.1955B840.mpeters@csi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"X0oEj.A.HyD.I3jR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5350 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:46:59 -0700 X-UIDL: feb6412271103412b49be4f0a937a287 Michael Peters wrote: > left of mainstream, yeah. feels good to me. What would right of the mainstream be? Classical? tdb From ???@??? Tue Apr 28 10:38:04 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 28 08:43:45 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUCXo-0005OQ-00; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 08:43:44 -0700 Message-Id: <3545F7C5.12CB@mdbs.com> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 10:37:41 -0500 From: "Dennis W. Leas" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; U) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: multiple echoplex syncing (was: Hello and Help) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"XDcaNC.A.WME.befR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5341 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 08:43:44 -0700 X-UIDL: 0152eef24e7d04379b919c23944f93a2 Kim Flint wrote: > > first question: do both units have the new software upgrade? (LoopIIIv5.0) Yes! I upgraded my older unit. Both loopers are now identically configured with maxed-out RAM and LoopIIIv5.0. > If I were doing this, I would set the master to have the larger 8ths/beat > value (8) and the slave the smaller. (2 would be the right thing for your > diagram.) Thanks for this suggestion. And the explanation that followed. I am meeting better success now and have a much better idea of what is going on. I'm sure I'll have further questions but for now, here are some things I noticed: 1) I have quantize on. But on both my units the parameter (SwitchQuant, right?) give me the choices of "OFF", "CyC", and "CnF" and the manual describes only "On" and "OFF". I set mine to "CyC". Could you explain what "CyC" and "CnF" mean? 2) When I have loops in both units and the slave is synched properly to the master, I notice unusual behavior from the slave when I try to do a NextLoop, Multiply sequence. I use this to do a loop-copy into the next (empty) loop. I hit NextLoop right after the slave loop begins (it's about 14 seconds long) and, rather than entering a "lame duck period", the slave immediately switches to the next loop. If I set Sync to "Off" this doesn't happen, i.e., the slave enters a "lame duck period", but then the units aren't synched any more. 3) From your explanation and my understanding, I conclude that the slave and master may have differing ideas of where things begin. Visually, this would be shown by the StartPoint indicator of the slave not flashing at the same time that the StartPoint of the master flashes. Diagrammatically: master loop: |---------------------------------------| slave loop: ------|---------|---------|---------|--- If this is so, is there a way to "realign" the slaves synching? Kim, I really appreciate your help and information and, especially, that you experimented to see what actually happens. I know how time consuming this can be. I've been pulling my hair out, actually reading manuals and books on midi :), to try to figure this out. Thanks! - Dennis Leas From ???@??? Tue Apr 28 10:38:08 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 28 09:11:14 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUCyP-0000wl-00; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 09:11:13 -0700 Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 01:04:48 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: X-Mailer: Macintosh Eudora Pro Version 2.1.3-J Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: cave@pop1.osk.3web.ne.jp (Sunao Inami) Subject: Re: Jamman memory chips, where? Resent-Message-ID: <"SBdV4B.A.1G.t4fR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5342 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 09:11:13 -0700 X-UIDL: a334bf6d7ded4cdf9d33e72d056305c6 Hi, I think Rogue Music stock it,I got it from Rogue,but it little expensive $72 for 4chips set. please visit to www.roguemusic.com > dear friends > > I'd be very grateful if some among you should tell me > where to find (net shops!?) the memory chips for > upgrading a Jamman. > > Sorry if this has been asked various times before, > but I couldn't read the info. > > I supose, private answers are better this time: > > rauboto@eui.upv.es > > Thanks in advance! > > raul. > > Regards Sunao Inami E-mail cave@osk.3web.ne.jp URL"cave home" http://www.threeweb.ad.jp/~cave/ tel&fax "CAVE Studio" +81 794 89 5025 Hyogo,Japan tel&fax "Private" +81 794 89 5015 Hyogo,Japan snail mail address 316 Ohshima Kuchiyokawa Miki City Hyogo Japan 6730755 From ???@??? Tue Apr 28 22:02:45 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 28 11:39:43 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUFI3-00054y-00; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 11:39:39 -0700 Sender: mpeters@csi.com Message-ID: <01BD72E4.1955B840.mpeters@csi.com> From: Michael Peters To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: AW: we are a polite little group Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 20:18:25 +0200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-Mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"igOe_B.A.rdD.tAiR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5343 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 11:39:39 -0700 X-UIDL: 51a75c004d38daf6f4a2c3cd5923519e > i was thinking this as i drove home from work to-nite: go up to 99.9% of the > folks out there and ask, " do you know of a program that can take the song of > a bird and slow it down and not change its pitch so i can..................." > we are a bit left of mainstream. i may not understand you but im glad your > there.........thanks...............michael left of mainstream, yeah. feels good to me. michael peters mpeters@csi.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Mpeters/ From ???@??? Tue Apr 28 22:02:50 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 28 11:56:45 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUFYY-0007cG-00; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 11:56:42 -0700 From: CURBSPHERE Message-ID: <28cca59f.354624c2@aol.com> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 14:49:37 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Subscribe Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Resent-Message-ID: <"s6omMC.A.4QG.oTiR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5344 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 11:56:42 -0700 X-UIDL: 7e5e4035a062777eeceda5f985f3b287 Subscribe How much should I be paying for a Oberheim Echoplex Digital Pro with 4 meg and upgrade, including the foot pedal ? This music company in town is asking $700.00 for the unit with the foot pedal. Is this a good price? I thought they were going for about $560.00 with the foot pedal. Thanks! Curbie From ???@??? Tue Apr 28 22:02:55 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 28 12:42:04 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUGGQ-0005XR-00; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 12:42:02 -0700 Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 14:34:39 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199804281934.OAA03348@mail2.texas.net> X-Sender: sharkey@mail.texas.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: james rhodes Subject: Re: How much to pay for EDP? Resent-Message-ID: <"2sxCe.A.yUE.c9iR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5345 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 12:42:02 -0700 X-UIDL: d92d7b18cae766a69bc3f39c04059a4f At 02:49 PM 4/28/98 EDT, you wrote: >Subscribe > >How much should I be paying for a Oberheim >Echoplex Digital Pro with 4 meg and upgrade, >including the foot pedal ? > >This music company in town is asking >$700.00 for the unit with the foot pedal. > >Is this a good price? >I thought they were going for about >$560.00 with the foot pedal. > >Thanks! > >Curbie > > >hi curbie, the price you were given might be a little high, but not that much. i assume the unit is new if you cant find a better price, buy it...you are not getting ripped off. james From ???@??? Tue Apr 28 22:02:56 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 28 12:51:56 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUGPx-0006wv-00; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 12:51:53 -0700 From: "Woehni" To: "COLLINSCLAN" , Subject: SV: Microtonality Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 21:41:55 +0200 Message-ID: <01bd72dd$b30610e0$5e024382@pentium-200> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01BD72EE.768EE0E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"LCjJQC.A.DfF.bGjR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5346 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 12:51:53 -0700 X-UIDL: b2073903b0a4a6698c1004d3f1c29e47
Hi Jeff , The other day I discovered a great thing about the singing of Chet Baker. 
I was transcribing his scat-solo on "all of you" from the cd Chet baker Sings Again.
He makes his vocal phrases and lines sound so great because he uses quartersteps in
his pitches here and there.
 
 To me , this was an amazing discovery , because it led me to two realizations:
1. Microtonality can exist in tonal music and can be a great tool to make old phrases come alive. 
2. No way in hell am I gonna be able to play Chat Baker scat-solos without working up
a massive vib-arm technique..........(I`m gonna do it , btw)
 
 
So there , thats all I know about the subject.
 
 
Yours , Thomas Wøhni
 
From ???@??? Tue Apr 28 22:02:59 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 28 12:56:53 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUGUf-0007lw-00; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 12:56:45 -0700 Message-ID: <35463171.7B162943@vtx.ch> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 21:43:45 +0200 From: Claude Voit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight Subject: One for the plex FAQ Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_IzsZ.A.h7F.3JjR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5347 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 12:56:45 -0700 X-UIDL: 26b7e5749632170d01811f0164e9f598 Dear friend is this possible and how record the nextloop silently with the current loop playing Thank you Claude -- Please correct the reply address by deleting this "----" Veuillez corriger mon adresse pour me rŽpondre en effaant a "----" From ???@??? Tue Apr 28 22:03:00 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 28 12:58:53 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUGWa-0000If-00; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 12:58:44 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980428194536.00a08a9c@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 12:45:36 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, CURBSPHERE From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Subscribe Resent-Message-ID: <"GULBY.A.oCG.pKjR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5348 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 12:58:44 -0700 X-UIDL: 2dd06fe49cb3557480d7389f37e25067 At 02:49 PM 4/28/98 EDT, CURBSPHERE wrote: >Subscribe The subscriptions are automated, and sending a post to the list won't do it. Check the directions at: http://www.annihilist.com/loop/list/LoopList.html >How much should I be paying for a Oberheim >Echoplex Digital Pro with 4 meg and upgrade, >including the foot pedal ? > >This music company in town is asking >$700.00 for the unit with the foot pedal. > >Is this a good price? sounds typical. maybe even less than typical. (I don't follow the prices very carefully, though.) >I thought they were going for about >$560.00 with the foot pedal. nope. I think you could get it for that price a couple of years ago, without the footpedal. I don't think it's been that low in quite a while. Although, at that time you would have been getting it with 1MB memory installed, for 12.3 seconds. Now they sell it with 4MB installed (50 seconds) at the price they used to have the 1MB version. Dropping DRAM prices to the rescue..... kim _______________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 Mpact Systems Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Tue Apr 28 22:03:04 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 28 13:11:03 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUGiT-0001oy-00; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:11:01 -0700 Message-ID: <3546361F.23C6@efn.org> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:03:43 -0700 From: Peter Harlan Reply-To: pharlan@efn.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com CC: pharlan@efn.org Subject: Echoplex control Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"erCDuC.A.K7.aYjR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5349 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:11:01 -0700 X-UIDL: 4eedde211d8661dca529869d3370fc02 Well, I'm on the verge of buying one of these babies, but I won't be able to get a foot controller for "about 3 weeks", says the storeguy. I think it'll be longer than that. How limited am I going to be until I get the controller? Is it possible to use stock footswitches to start/stop loops and overdubs? What about other reversing, etc.? I do have an ART X-15--would that give me reasonable command of the main functions? Thanks for any tips on this, Peter From ???@??? Tue Apr 28 22:03:09 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 28 13:56:42 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUHQb-0006oe-00; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:56:37 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980428133822.009a19c0@global.california.com> X-Sender: sechevar@global.california.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:38:22 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Sean Echevarria Subject: Re: Subscribe In-Reply-To: <28cca59f.354624c2@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"YcGri.A.r2E.fAkR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5351 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:56:38 -0700 X-UIDL: 1943f4e420f1f87ccde782b41bed52a8 At 02:49 PM 4/28/98 EDT, CURBSPHERE wrote: >How much should I be paying for a Oberheim >Echoplex Digital Pro with 4 meg and upgrade, >including the foot pedal ? > >This music company in town is asking >$700.00 for the unit with the foot pedal. > >Is this a good price? >I thought they were going for about >$560.00 with the foot pedal. > Price depends on how much RAM you get it with - I got mine in '95 for $555 w/ footpedal and 1MB. sean From ???@??? Tue Apr 28 22:03:20 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 28 15:27:27 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUIqN-0002qa-00; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:27:19 -0700 Message-ID: <3546560B.BCC9DCD2@mediaone.net> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 18:19:55 -0400 From: innerspace@mediaone.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en]C-MOEMW (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: DOD Dimension 12 review References: <199804271720.KAA28595@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------EF3730B579D4AD000F85D4BC" Resent-Message-ID: <"H4kXQB.A.OmB.CYlR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5353 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:27:19 -0700 X-UIDL: 6f970a4457d563d308376c375d602994 I really don''t think that an older emu sampler( old does not mean so old it sounds like dod, in fact emu never sounded like dod I'm not that mean) and a sequencer would run ya four grand, I don't think the sampler alone listed that high to start with.... ;-)

Paolo Valladolid wrote:

> MUCH RATHER HAVE AN EMU SAMPLER AND SEQUENCER...

And I'd much rather have a Kyma/Capybara setup, but I don't have $4000
right now.

:)

Paolo

  From ???@??? Tue Apr 28 22:03:21 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 28 15:35:16 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUIy0-000447-00; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:35:12 -0700 Message-ID: <3546577E.4B5AE344@mediaone.net> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 18:26:06 -0400 From: innerspace@mediaone.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en]C-MOEMW (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: DOD Dimension 12 review References: <3.0.5.32.19980426123314.007efe00@wavefront.com> <19980425204950.12453.rocketmail@web2.rocketmail.com> <3.0.5.32.19980426165145.008638f0@wavefront.com> <35449A99.18C7945D@mediaone.net> <3544C97F.C6F3EE88@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"CLQpJD.A.RfC.6dlR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5356 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:35:12 -0700 X-UIDL: cbb4b85dbf211771c0d5ba98dfd0bb6a   Roland Eberle wrote: > innerspace@mediaone.net wrote: > > > UTTER CRAPPOLA. > > > > > > Please..stop shouting. I apologize sincerely for my over exuberance.... I must admit I never did understand how utilizing caps turns you into somekind of loudmouth punk in cyberspace...... these "rules" are not my specialty I will try not to shout in the future and i truly do apologize if I offended any of you by ***    SHOUTING  * **   From ???@??? Tue Apr 28 22:03:23 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 28 15:46:12 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUJ8V-0005mT-00; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:46:03 -0700 Message-ID: <35465A00.1A7A13E@mediaone.net> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 18:36:48 -0400 From: innerspace@mediaone.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en]C-MOEMW (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Samplers 101 References: <01bd720b$f2b38560$ef004382@pentium-200> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------84465DD1ECF41B1E0820B4A9" Resent-Message-ID: <"oegYpB.A.mCE.7nlR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5357 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:46:03 -0700 X-UIDL: c07b631e1c6e46f33ececf3fbdfd169f YOU'RE CURRENT ASSUMPTIONS ARE CORRECT, SIR.
sAMPLERS ARE RECORDINGS (DIGITAL)
SAMPLERS CAN BE TRIGERED, MOST VIA MIDI, SOME VIA +/-5 TRIGGER PULSE[THIS IS ENTIRELY DEPENDANT UPON WHAT TYPE OF SAMPLER YOU HAVE.  tECHNICALLY, ALL OF THE LOOP TOOLS SPOKEN ABOUT ON THIS LIST ARE SAMPLERS  (ECHOCOMPLEX, JAM MAN, RDS 8000), BUT THEIR FUNCTIONALITY IS LIMITED DUE ( I'M GUESSING HERE) TO THEIR TARGET MARKET, AND THEIR TARGETED USE....
i'D CHECK OUT EMU'S STUFF, i SEE ALOT OF IT USED FOR BEARABLE COST.  tHEIR SYSTEMS ARE VERY EXPANDABLE, AND VERY EASY TO USE...
HOWEVER, iF YOU'RE COMPUTER LITERATE AND ARE WILLING TO DO SOME HUNTING AROUND, i'M BETTING THAT YOU COULD FIND A COMPUTER BASED SAMPLER ( SOFTWARE THAT DOES THE SAME THING AS THE MAGIC BUS...BOX) AND SEQUENCER PROGRAM AND GET GOOD RESULTS FOR FAR LESS LOOT...  oF COURSE, IN ORDER TO CAPTURE  ANY OF THE WUNDERFULL MUSIK YOU JUST MADE ON YER COMPUTER THERE'S A WHOLE OTHER PILE OF PROBLEMS YOU'LL ENCOUNTER AS WELL....

i KNOW THAT BOTH THE OUTBOARD GEAR AND THE COMPUTER SOFTWARE EXISTS SOMEWHERE, GOOD LUCK

Woehni wrote:

Hi all , I have a mindbogglingly (?!)  silly question for everyone. Its about samplers , and
its based on the fact that I have never seen or laid my hands on one:

Could you explain to me the basics of a sampler??  Like: how it works , what can be done with it , how they are used in homestudio setups , what I can do with a sampler and a computer , names and brands of good samplers and wha I should expect to pay on the used market.............and so forth.........

This is what I know about samplers , so far:  I know that a sample is a recording , and a  sampler can perform such recordings and trigger them.  Is this correct??

Yours , Thomas

PS. thanks for all great info , ppl!

  From ???@??? Tue Apr 28 22:03:26 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 28 15:48:09 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUJAP-00064g-00; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:48:01 -0700 Message-ID: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD02CA0F5@migarexch01.maritz.com> From: "Liebig, Steuart A." To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: DOD Dimension 12 review Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 17:38:54 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Resent-Message-ID: <"Nm_ZjB.A.2aE.WqlR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5358 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:48:01 -0700 X-UIDL: 771b9eb30486dddfc09124da194f856a Is anyone else having problems reading these thing? I have to open a separate document everytime I want to read a post > ---------- > From: innerspace@mediaone.net > > > This message uses a character set that is not supported by the > Internet Mail Service. To view the original message content, open > the attached message. If the text doesn't display correctly, save the > attachment to disk, and then open it using a viewer that can display > the original character set.<> > From ???@??? Tue Apr 28 22:03:26 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 28 15:50:58 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUJDC-0006YA-00; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:50:54 -0700 Message-ID: <35465B2D.3755A74F@mediaone.net> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 18:41:50 -0400 From: innerspace@mediaone.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en]C-MOEMW (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: TO TRAVIS W/ MUCHO LOVE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"OqUlsB.A.ByE.jslR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5359 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:50:54 -0700 X-UIDL: 1bc009a84957c74596c0a294a9b31cd6 I appreciate the hint.... I wish the other "user" of this terminal would've left a note.... although its probably "my" responsibility.. oh well, I've probably been "yelling" all day and never knew it.. From ???@??? Tue Apr 28 22:03:27 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 28 15:58:25 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUJKS-0007i2-00; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:58:24 -0700 Message-ID: <35465D23.771850E6@mediaone.net> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 18:50:11 -0400 From: innerspace@mediaone.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en]C-MOEMW (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: DOD Dimension 12 review References: <3.0.5.32.19980426123314.007efe00@wavefront.com> <19980425204950.12453.rocketmail@web2.rocketmail.com> <3.0.5.32.19980426165145.008638f0@wavefront.com> <3.0.1.16.19980427180400.279fa288@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------59FAC4F115FBB34051461D02" Resent-Message-ID: <"Fg9FGC.A.xBG.g0lR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5360 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:58:24 -0700 X-UIDL: ffceb051aff1ee4c5de1d56d1b354eb1 I will admit, some of the older delay pedals ( not simply dod, maybe rocktec if that's a valid name anyway...) held within the confines of their shiny little walls the ability to create outrageous and immense guitar tones,(sorry kim).  But I always found them to be way to uncontrollable for what I was doing at the time... I have to say that digitech was always the way to go for me.  My first delay unit was the 3.6 sec. time machine... I still use a 7.6 and an rds 8000 as much , if not more than the jammy or the echoplex ( for geeetar).  I've also got to commend those boy's and grrls at digitech for what they put in their  stomp pedals...   the dd-5 ( think thats right, white box, lite blue letters?) has an external tap function and a reverse delay which is way to much fun... and their reverb/digital delay pedal is constantly in use around this part of town....

that would be my only suggestion, and In the end...
what difference does it make what I prefer anyway, dod may sound killer in yer neck o the woods.

Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D. wrote:

>JUST ANOTHER VOTE OF CONFIDENCE IN DOD PRODUCTS AGAIN..

Hi!  Your Caps Lock button's been left on!

>i'LL BE HONEST  AND SAY i'VE NEVER LIKED A SINGLE THING THIS COMPANY  HAS
>PRODUCED, ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THEIR STINKING STO,MP PEDALS...  UTTER CRAPPOLA
>AIMED AT DESTROYING MUSICAL CREATIVITY VIA THE CONSUMER MARKET....   UTTER
>CRAPPOLA.

Hell, they're cheap.... besides, I swear by (not at, by) my DOD analogue
delay from waaay back.  I don't know why, but it just does gorgeous things
to guitar tone.  I'd greatly miss it if it...went.  Yer pays yer money, and
if yer've not much money then DOD are as good as any - unless you've some
suggestions of any companies I've overlooked.

>MUCH RATHER HAVE AN EMU SAMPLER AND SEQUENCER...

....at several thousand dollars, no?

Michael

  From ???@??? Tue Apr 28 22:03:28 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 28 16:08:58 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUJUb-0001VI-00; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:08:53 -0700 Message-ID: <35465FA6.26E8@efn.org> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:00:54 -0700 From: Peter Harlan Reply-To: pharlan@efn.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com CC: pharlan@efn.org Subject: Re: DOD Dimension 12 review References: <3.0.5.32.19980426123314.007efe00@wavefront.com> <19980425204950.12453.rocketmail@web2.rocketmail.com> <3.0.5.32.19980426165145.008638f0@wavefront.com> <35449A99.18C7945D@mediaone.net> <3544C97F.C6F3EE88@jps.net> <3546577E.4B5AE344@mediaone.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wa3NcB.A.MR.m-lR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5361 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:08:53 -0700 X-UIDL: 741667d2f3ecd8bf8d4445e0db5f9290 There's actually at least one really good reason to avoid writing in all caps--it makes your message harder to read. This is not just my personal opinion, it has to do with the way our eyes and brains work. It happens that lowercase characters are more variable in their appearance, and so easier for us to differentiate quickly. Interestingly (to me), the one person in the programming department where I work who insists on using all caps for his messages also shouts all the time. -Peter innerspace@mediaone.net wrote: > > > > Roland Eberle wrote: > > > innerspace@mediaone.net wrote: > > > > > UTTER CRAPPOLA. > > > > > > > > > > Please..stop shouting. > > I apologize sincerely for my over exuberance.... > > I must admit I never did understand how utilizing caps turns you into > somekind of loudmouth punk in cyberspace...... > these "rules" are not my specialty > I will try not to shout in the future and i truly do apologize if I > offended any of you by *** SHOUTING * ** > > From ???@??? Tue Apr 28 22:03:29 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 28 16:14:06 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUJZZ-0002Hn-00; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:14:01 -0700 Message-ID: <354660A9.B48B48FE@mediaone.net> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:05:13 -0400 From: innerspace@mediaone.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en]C-MOEMW (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nyfac2@nyfac.com CC: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: AW: we are a polite little group References: <01BD72E4.1955B840.mpeters@csi.com> <3545F196.C2044E7B@nyfac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"XYS7h.A.X4.hCmR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5362 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:14:01 -0700 X-UIDL: 065dc085c0c865fde9a7b08420defa66   tdbajus wrote: > What would right of the mainstream be?  Classical? > > tdb  what's classical? From ???@??? Tue Apr 28 22:03:31 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 28 16:32:04 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUJqw-0004w0-00; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:31:58 -0700 Message-ID: <354664D0.53FECAA0@bellsouth.net> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:22:56 -0400 From: Jeff & Mary Duke Reply-To: jmar@bellsouth.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pharlan@efn.org CC: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: DOD Dimension 12 review References: <3.0.5.32.19980426123314.007efe00@wavefront.com> <19980425204950.12453.rocketmail@web2.rocketmail.com> <3.0.5.32.19980426165145.008638f0@wavefront.com> <35449A99.18C7945D@mediaone.net> <3544C97F.C6F3EE88@jps.net> <3546577E.4B5AE344@mediaone.net> <35465FA6.26E8@efn.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Ysec6.A.DfD.LUmR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5363 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:31:58 -0700 X-UIDL: d16c27a1dedba7ad8d4f9e9e45fd4c29 right on! Peter Harlan wrote: > There's actually at least one really good reason to avoid writing in > all caps--it makes your message harder to read. > > This is not just my personal opinion, it has to do with the way our > eyes and brains work. It happens that lowercase characters are more > variable in their appearance, and so easier for us to differentiate > quickly. > > Interestingly (to me), the one person in the programming department > where I work who insists on using all caps for his messages also > shouts all the time. > > -Peter > > innerspace@mediaone.net wrote: > > > > > > > > Roland Eberle wrote: > > > > > innerspace@mediaone.net wrote: > > > > > > > UTTER CRAPPOLA. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please..stop shouting. > > > > I apologize sincerely for my over exuberance.... > > > > I must admit I never did understand how utilizing caps turns you into > > somekind of loudmouth punk in cyberspace...... > > these "rules" are not my specialty > > I will try not to shout in the future and i truly do apologize if I > > offended any of you by *** SHOUTING * ** > > > > From ???@??? Tue Apr 28 22:03:31 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 28 16:35:53 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUJuX-0005V2-00; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:35:41 -0700 Message-ID: <35466601.55E5@efn.org> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:28:01 -0700 From: Peter Harlan Reply-To: pharlan@efn.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com CC: pharlan@efn.org Subject: Echoplex control Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ck6roB.A.0CE.4XmR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5364 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:35:42 -0700 X-UIDL: 5351c7d6ce7adba5efaff4606b2edb6c Sorry to waste bandwidth now and earlier when I asked about alternate foot controller possibilities. Turns out Kim has a great FAQ about this on his site that I somehow managed to overlook when I first surfed over there. -Peter From ???@??? Tue Apr 28 22:03:35 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 28 16:56:40 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUKEj-0000kD-00; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:56:33 -0700 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199804282349.QAA08278@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: Microtonality To: collinsclan@sprintmail.com Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:49:07 -0700 (PDT) Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <01bd7267$1f010380$2c08bfa8@0QHC6SIA> from "COLLINSCLAN" at Apr 28, 98 01:33:06 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lJmWtC.A._-G.5rmR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5365 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:56:33 -0700 X-UIDL: 43f3e2eb8b963888bd1681d2d3d76fb5 > Has anyone on this list ever listened to microtonal music? Do you like = > microtonal music? Have you ever wondered why we all use the same tuning = > system that most of us would be better off in a more suttle tuning = > system or one with great dissonance? If you feel the way i do. Than you = > are a searcher too! Please get in touch and be a TRUE innovator. > Jeff Collins > collinsclan@sprintmail.com I've had some exposure through the UCSD music department (Partch, etc.), and a tiny bit from a San Diego group promoting microtonal music that had some ties to Ivor Darreg, who crusaded for temperaments that are _not_ based on multiples of 12 (19-tone, 21-tone, etc.). Actually I think the majority of my exposure to microtonality is through music forms from around the world (Arabic, Indian, Indonesian, etc.). I like the idea of exploring alternate temperaments and am always interested in hearing them. However, I also happen to like modern forms like bebop and cleverly written pop music which would not have been possible without equal temperament. I enjoy listening to the key modulations and such made possible by equal temperament. Alternate temperaments (not counting just intonation, of course, because just about every musician who does not play a keyboard or fretted instrument actually plays in just intonation, if I'm not mistaken) work best with music where there aren't a lot of key changes. Cheers, Paolo Valladolid --------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ---------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Tue Apr 28 22:03:39 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 28 19:34:05 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUMh1-0001h5-00; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:33:55 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980428211844.00841640@wavefront.com> X-Sender: chuck.zwicky@wavefront.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 21:18:44 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chuck Zwicky Subject: Re: In defense of DOD In-Reply-To: <5fdbc6ec.3546569f@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"PjNtr.A.d2.uApR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5366 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:33:55 -0700 X-UIDL: 6b5a7e8a8f83236178348f94878ad451 I live in Minneapolis. I'll be playing a show at the Weisman Museum at the end of May. -Chuck Zwicky At 06:22 PM 4/28/98 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-04-28 18:10:50 EDT, you write: > ><< i have a dod delay pedal that is really quite cool. >> > >I have to second this. I have a PDS 8000 - Echo Plus that, while tempermental, >can be really fun to freak out with, and has actually led me down some cool >improvisational paths. > >Slightly off the beaten path of this discussion, is anyone on this list in the >Minneapolis/St. Paul area? I'm planning to move there soon, and I wanted to >know what the scene was like, in terms of experimental music.... > > > > From ???@??? Tue Apr 28 22:03:41 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 28 19:53:17 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUMzg-0003jB-00; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:53:12 -0700 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sprintmail.com Reply-To: "COLLINSCLAN" From: "COLLINSCLAN" To: Subject: Re: Microtonality Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 22:40:53 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd7318$3ac76f80$2308bfa8@0QHC6SIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004B_01BD72F6.B3B5CF80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"xXkSRC.A.7-C.bUpR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5367 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:53:12 -0700 X-UIDL: 19749043f7e1d423b042aec6f036ab69
I've got a friend named Ken Rubenstein who has a cd out of this amazingly microtonal stuff (indian shenhai's done from guitar synths) and LOTS of loops and he has what i believe to be the perfect vibrato arm. He can do so much with quarter steps and eighth steps and he only uses a 12 tone guitar. Although he's been wanting to get a fretless with marks for quarter steps. You might want to check him out. If you've got ahold of any old Guitar Player magazines...he won the LAST soundpage competition and is in there, but his music is now more in the indian and Scottish music's mixed with utter wierdness. If you'd like i can give you his address.
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: Woehni <hovard@online.no>
To: COLLINSCLAN <collinsclan@sprintmail.com>; Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Date: Tuesday, April 28, 1998 3:48 PM
Subject: SV: Microtonality

Hi Jeff , The other day I discovered a great thing about the singing of Chet Baker. 
I was transcribing his scat-solo on "all of you" from the cd Chet baker Sings Again.
He makes his vocal phrases and lines sound so great because he uses quartersteps in
his pitches here and there.
 
 To me , this was an amazing discovery , because it led me to two realizations:
1. Microtonality can exist in tonal music and can be a great tool to make old phrases come alive. 
2. No way in hell am I gonna be able to play Chat Baker scat-solos without working up
a massive vib-arm technique..........(I`m gonna do it , btw)
 
 
So there , thats all I know about the subject.
 
 
Yours , Thomas Wøhni
 
From ???@??? Tue Apr 28 22:03:43 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 28 20:11:43 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUNHY-00015H-00; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 20:11:40 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19980429030517.006adf30@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: gls@pop.mindspring.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 22:05:17 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Grover Sheffield Subject: Re: Subscribe Resent-Message-ID: <"M-lnAC.A.jk.VmpR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5368 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 20:11:40 -0700 X-UIDL: caff5eb575b68f68fbf492536de92d42 Curbie, I paid $770 for EDP w/pedal (4 MG) when they first started delivering, and another $70 to max memory. I'd love to know there they're available for $560 !! Good luck... Grover At 02:49 PM 4/28/98 EDT, you wrote: >This music company in town is asking >$700.00 for the unit with the foot pedal. > >Is this a good price? >I thought they were going for about >$560.00 with the foot pedal. > >Thanks! > >Curbie > > From ???@??? Tue Apr 28 22:03:43 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 28 20:34:48 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUNdv-0003Go-00; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 20:34:47 -0700 From: "Woehni" To: "COLLINSCLAN" , Subject: SV: Microtonality Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 05:28:14 +0200 Message-ID: <01bd731e$d8397820$82004382@pentium-200> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0025_01BD732F.9BC24820" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"We9bsD.A._hC.n7pR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5369 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 20:34:47 -0700 X-UIDL: ec1e3b1e7870dd93f17fe4b16c4cdc5e

I've got a friend named Ken Rubenstein who has a cd out of this amazingly microtonal stuff (indian shenhai's done from guitar synths) and LOTS of loops and he has what i believe to be the perfect vibrato arm. He can do so much with quarter steps and eighth steps and he only uses a 12 tone guitar.
 
Hi Jeff , your friend sounds like my kinda guy! :-)
 
When you say "the perfect vibrato arm" , do you mean like a specific piece of gear , or do you mean
the way he uses A vibrato bar???
 
12 tone guitar? You mean a regular fretted intstrument with 12 tones per octave , or a guitar that has
only 12 tones (I know this may sound a lil farfetched on my part , but I`m just wondering , hehe)
 
 
Yours , Thomas
From ???@??? Wed Apr 29 10:29:20 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 29 03:00:30 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUTfB-0001Dd-00; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 03:00:29 -0700 Message-ID: <00a101bd7355$5ab270a0$c2b854ce@mark.asisoftware.com> From: Mark@asisoftware.com (Mark Kata) To: "Loopers Delight" Subject: Rubenstein & Microtonality Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 05:58:26 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"s2JclC.A.am.khvR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5370 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 03:00:29 -0700 X-UIDL: 7c0c69e490268dc99b5e3ef66649d49c Not only is Ken Rubenstein an amazing guitarist and composer, he's also a monster at looping. Mark Kata Mark@asisoftware.com Jeff said: >>I've got a friend named Ken Rubenstein who has a cd out of this amazingly >>microtonal stuff (indian shenhai's done from guitar synths) and LOTS of >>loops and he has what i believe to be the perfect vibrato arm. He can do so >>much with quarter steps and eighth steps and he only uses a 12 tone guitar. >>Although he's been wanting to get a fretless with marks for quarter steps. >>You might want to check him out. If you've got ahold of any old Guitar Player >>magazines...he won the LAST soundpage competition and is in there, but >>his music is now more in the indian and Scottish music's mixed with utter >>wierdness. If you'd like i can give you his address. >>Jeff From ???@??? Wed Apr 29 10:29:32 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 29 05:27:46 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUVxh-000153-00; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 05:27:45 -0700 Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 05:21:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Stew Benedict Subject: Re: Subscribe To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980429030517.006adf30@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"u2teBB.A.ce.ItxR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5371 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 05:27:45 -0700 X-UIDL: f04b0271eb52abfe1f61308ffa655129 Prices did go up, I had secured a deal at $535 for the plex + controller. After a year backordered, the store said they couln't honor that price and to get the box we renegotiated for $630. Can't say I'd recommend this dealer to others. Stew From ???@??? Wed Apr 29 10:29:33 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 29 05:29:54 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUVzl-0001N3-00; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 05:29:53 -0700 Message-ID: <35471C32.C7E92B93@vm.temple.edu> Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 08:25:22 -0400 From: Sean O'Donnell Reply-To: sodonne@vm.temple.edu Organization: Temple University Center for Research in Human Development and Education X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com CC: Crossedout@aol.com Subject: Re: In defense of DOD References: <5fdbc6ec.3546569f@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"RPuS8C.A.1x.2wxR1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5372 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 05:29:53 -0700 X-UIDL: 61d2d79225715f514bb3a9043d3f4c27 Minneapolis/St. Paul has a decent experimental scene particularly as far as strange rock ensembles go. I suggest checking out the CD's of Minneapolis groups "Colossamite" or "Gorge Trio." The guitarists for both (John Dieterich and Ed ???) are loop freaks, sporting JamMan, Echoplex, DigiTech Time Machines. They are also very nice guys and are approachable...they'd be glad to give you the low down on who's who in Minn./St. Paul experimental music. Sean Crossedout wrote: > >>snip!<< > > Slightly off the beaten path of this discussion, is anyone on this list in the > Minneapolis/St. Paul area? I'm planning to move there soon, and I wanted to > know what the scene was like, in terms of experimental music.... From ???@??? Thu Apr 30 09:37:03 1998 Return-path: Envelope-to: kflint@annihilist.com Delivery-date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 05:06:09 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUs6G-0001T7-00; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 05:06:04 -0700 Message-ID: <35474BEF.C96@pop.interport.net> Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 15:49:09 +0000 From: John + Diane Parada Reply-To: jparada@changenow.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Jamman memory chips, where? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"KVw2kC.A.Wr.neGS1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5382 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 05:06:04 -0700 X-UIDL: be97106e2510aa861165cdfae05544d4 Hi all . I just purchased a Boomerang from rogue Music in Nyc. Between that, my analog and digital delays, my ebow and xp300 space station, I can now make and record some of the sounds I've always wanted to make. I am in the NYC area. I am interested in hypnosis, meditation and music and live performance of those combinations . Is there anyone who shares simialr interests in the area? to learn more about me visit my site http://www.changenow.com From ???@??? Wed Apr 29 11:30:12 1998 Return-path: Envelope-to: kflint@annihilist.com Delivery-date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 10:49:04 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUayd-00045m-00; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 10:49:03 -0700 Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 12:42:04 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199804291742.MAA04600@mail3.texas.net> X-Sender: sharkey@mail.texas.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: james rhodes Subject: recent CD recommendations (non loop) Resent-Message-ID: <"Ifqu-B.A.2LD.zZ2R1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5373 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 10:49:03 -0700 X-UIDL: 10edca3e0c30a26a004bfd1517db7267 > >hey list members, > >picked up a few cds yesterday,,all very good > >1)Scofield "A Go Go" with Medeski,Martin& Wood backing,,very sweet and laid back,, groove intense >2)Jesus Lizard "EP" on Jetset records,,great,,high energy, lets you know that you are alive >3) Cecil Taylor "Air" this one came out in 1990,,but was recorded in 1960,,if you like Cecil Taylor, you will love this record,,if you dont like his music,,then you are right up there with the majority of folks. im not the majority...... > >the first two are new,,the cecil taylor has been out a while. > >well there you go,,,from a voice of chunk...(lounge lizards) > >later, >james > From ???@??? Thu Apr 30 00:16:41 1998 Return-path: Envelope-to: kflint@annihilist.com Delivery-date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 12:58:10 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUcza-0005jQ-00; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 12:58:10 -0700 Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 15:50:28 -0400 (EDT) From: ssg@earthling.net Message-Id: <199804291950.PAA06122@web01.globecomm.net> Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: CD's FS: of interest to loopers Resent-Message-ID: <"RnuKb.A.5yE.OS4R1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5374 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 12:58:10 -0700 X-UIDL: 0d9a7aa029773617f727bb71d7c7baeb I have the following cd's for sale, all in excellent condition (except the Mills cd, as noted). Please reply to me personally if interested. Shipping is a few dollars extra. Torn/Karn/Bozzio: "Polytown" $11 Derek Bailey & DJ Ninj: "guitar, drums 'n' bass" japanese import $15 Paul Dresher & Ned Rothenberg: "Opposites Attract" $10 loops and improv featuring shakuhachi, saxes, bass clarinet, guitar, bass, drums... Russell Mills "undark" e:mt cd with Sylvian, Brook, Eno and others. Has one skip on one track. UK import $14 From ???@??? Thu Apr 30 00:17:14 1998 Return-path: Envelope-to: kflint@annihilist.com Delivery-date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 15:39:31 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUfVi-0001U9-00; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 15:39:30 -0700 Message-ID: <3547AAD6.46E351C8@aznet.net> Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 15:33:58 -0700 From: Adam Tuckerman X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: A request for some advice (please) References: <199804291950.PAA06122@web01.globecomm.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jjVQAD.A.p7.qr6R1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5375 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 15:39:30 -0700 X-UIDL: aa8552cc1fa6b3397460a17e5b7145e8 I have the opportunity to buy a used 1 minute Boomerang for $150. It doesn't have the manual or a power supply. Should i go for it? Thank you very much, Adam Tuckerman From ???@??? Thu Apr 30 00:17:15 1998 Return-path: Envelope-to: kflint@annihilist.com Delivery-date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 15:53:01 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUfim-0002cY-00; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 15:53:00 -0700 Message-Id: <199804292239.PAA04742@scv2.apple.com> Subject: Re: A request for some advice (please) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 98 17:40:51 -0500 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"pvbTRC.A.5BC.w46R1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5376 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 15:53:00 -0700 X-UIDL: 3f909e438b2a33783c657be9e42c5bc9 > I have the opportunity to buy a used 1 minute Boomerang for $150. >It doesn't have the manual or a power supply. Should i go for it? Yes, it's easily worth $150. You can find an adaptor for $25 or so. Travis Hartnett From ???@??? Thu Apr 30 00:17:23 1998 Return-path: Envelope-to: kflint@annihilist.com Delivery-date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 16:05:26 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUfum-0003gb-00; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 16:05:24 -0700 From: Crossedout Message-ID: <940d69a1.3547b0b8@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 18:59:03 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: A request for some advice (please) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Resent-Message-ID: <"bderyC.A.s-C.bD7R1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5377 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 16:05:24 -0700 X-UIDL: b6249d3596de14fc313cdd51163369aa if the item is so cheap because it's missing those two items, GO FOR IT! Most companies will hook you up with another manual, and almost *any* power supply can be found somewhere, and if not, it can be built. Although, without a power supply, you can't test it to see if it works. If it's a relatively common volatage and plug arrangement, go out and get a power supply for it and use that to test it - better to spend $10 on a power supply that you won't use than $150 on a device that doesn't work. Good luck. - Bill Crossedout@aol.com From ???@??? Thu Apr 30 09:36:55 1998 Return-path: Envelope-to: kflint@annihilist.com Delivery-date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 02:30:55 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUpg2-0002os-00; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 02:30:50 -0700 From: KelRey Message-ID: <93790ede.3547c34c@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 20:18:19 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: A request for some advice (please) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 84 Resent-Message-ID: <"L1DJZ.A.yLB.NJES1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5380 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 02:30:50 -0700 X-UIDL: 4da990d45f32eaa9e6875fc15aeb5733 In a message dated 4/29/98 11:39:42 PM, you wrote: << I have the opportunity to buy a used 1 minute Boomerang for $150. It doesn't have the manual or a power supply. Should i go for it? Thank you very much, Adam Tuckerman>> Yes, Kelly From ???@??? Thu Apr 30 00:17:42 1998 Return-path: Envelope-to: kflint@annihilist.com Delivery-date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 21:18:26 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUkng-0001I8-00; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 21:18:24 -0700 From: NEMOGUIT Message-ID: <915f7e74.3547fa56@aol.com> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 00:13:08 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: 1 min. rang.......yes Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 81 Resent-Message-ID: <"y1CHUC.A.Z3.3p_R1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5378 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 21:18:24 -0700 X-UIDL: 391462be883881e671f4d160e5e432ff Adam- a 1 min. rang for 150.00 , go for it ! if not i'll buy it. e-mail mike N. at boomerang, (mnelson@dmans.com) he can probaly fix you up with both the manual, which you won't need, and the power line, which you will need. its a great, simple tool. if anyone else is using a rang, i would love to hear what they are doing with them. and any thoughts about real time playing (live), with it. my eyes must be going!! i can not read the posts that are black letters on dark blue background.................could just be me!!!!.............................michael From ???@??? Thu Apr 30 09:37:04 1998 Return-path: Envelope-to: kflint@annihilist.com Delivery-date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 05:06:11 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUs6I-0001TH-00; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 05:06:06 -0700 Message-ID: <35482EC9.7519@pop.interport.net> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 07:56:57 +0000 From: John + Diane Parada Reply-To: jparada@changenow.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: A request for some advice (please) References: <199804291950.PAA06122@web01.globecomm.net> <3547AAD6.46E351C8@aznet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1sd9tD.A.9s.weGS1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5383 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 05:06:06 -0700 X-UIDL: 09a166773c749e5764ed04b568b8abbe I just paid 450 for a new boomerang with 2/4 minute it iis great for 150 buy it. you don't need the manual. From ???@??? Thu Apr 30 09:37:05 1998 Return-path: Envelope-to: kflint@annihilist.com Delivery-date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 05:06:18 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUs6N-0001U4-00; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 05:06:11 -0700 Message-ID: <35482F15.216C@pop.interport.net> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 07:58:13 +0000 From: John + Diane Parada Reply-To: jparada@changenow.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: A request for some advice (please) References: <940d69a1.3547b0b8@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cR5BV.A.Au.2eGS1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5384 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 05:06:11 -0700 X-UIDL: e866caf25b6f23be72ded7cc72db7672 the boomerang guy is very cool call the 800# and he'll probably talk you through it. From ???@??? Thu Apr 30 09:37:21 1998 Return-path: Envelope-to: kflint@annihilist.com Delivery-date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 09:12:13 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUvwR-0000vN-00; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 09:12:11 -0700 Message-ID: <35485B5E.FEA99963@nyfac.com> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:07:10 +0100 From: tdbajus Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Spin-17 References: <852565F6.0055F259.00@ams-central-gate-5a.amsinc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"DlQnIC.A.kK.8EKS1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5390 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 09:12:11 -0700 X-UIDL: 5936443e284df0f587970c54c8d352d5 But that's at the same time as my show! (also in NYC) But, seriously folks, when do the festivities start? My gig should be over @ 10:30 or so, and we drop our gear off practically next door. I would forward to meeting some of our members in the flesh, so to speak. tdb From ???@??? Thu Apr 30 09:37:15 1998 Return-path: Envelope-to: kflint@annihilist.com Delivery-date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 07:53:46 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUuiW-00013i-00; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 07:53:44 -0700 Message-ID: <35488F45.467B9F85@vm.temple.edu> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 10:48:37 -0400 From: Sean O'Donnell Reply-To: sodonne@vm.temple.edu Organization: Temple University Center for Research in Human Development and Education X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: JamMan MIDI Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JC83PD.A.Zp.I9IS1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5385 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 07:53:44 -0700 X-UIDL: ce53dd69e084741020cf3d79eef712db Does anyone use an external MIDI controller to trigger the JamMan? I use a Peavey PC-1600x and have had some success setting up multiple loops across buttons. However, I cannot tap in/out of loops. I have my MIDI channel set to 1 which the manual says is the equivalent of "tap." It doesn't work, though. The JamMan does indicate that a signal is being received as the display brightens when I punch a key. Thanks, Sean From ???@??? Thu Apr 30 09:37:16 1998 Return-path: Envelope-to: kflint@annihilist.com Delivery-date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 08:32:17 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUvJk-0003fH-00; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 08:32:12 -0700 Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 11:25:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Adam Levin Reply-To: Adam Levin To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Spin-17 In-Reply-To: <9803308939.AA893959876@mail.amsinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"F6GW1.A.X9C.KgJS1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5387 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 08:32:12 -0700 X-UIDL: b3c6fe1bcb80df5790b3385e41194f2a On Thu, 30 Apr 1998 Edward_Chang@mail.amsinc.com wrote: > Dear Friends and Fellow Fans of Experimental Music > Just a moment of your time to let you know.. ...lots of information about what looks to be an extremely cool show, EXCEPT the city/state where this show is taking place. DOH! -Adam --- "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue, out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one becomes a Hearer." - Chandrakirti T h e D a r k A e t h e r P r o j e c t http://www.ari.net/prog/bands/dap/ From ???@??? Thu Apr 30 09:37:19 1998 Return-path: Envelope-to: kflint@annihilist.com Delivery-date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 08:55:02 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUvfm-0005TV-00; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 08:54:58 -0700 X-Lotus-FromDomain: AMSINC From: Edward_Chang@mail.amsinc.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Message-ID: <852565F6.0055F259.00@ams-central-gate-5a.amsinc.com> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 11:39:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Spin-17 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"rg0h4D.A.VeE.Q1JS1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5389 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 08:54:58 -0700 X-UIDL: 6265f76d5f07fff04dce9f8ed93e7dba ---------------------- Forwarded by Edward Chang/AMS/AMSINC on 04/30/98 11:44 AM --------------------------- From: Edward Chang on 04/30/98 11:35 AM To: Adam Levin cc: Subject: Re: Spin-17 (Document link not converted) Sorry, it's New York City, Manhattan ed "New York-Centric" chang Adam Levin on 04/30/98 11:25:02 AM Please respond to Adam Levin To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com cc: (bcc: Edward Chang/AMS/AMSINC) Subject: Re: Spin-17 On Thu, 30 Apr 1998 Edward_Chang@mail.amsinc.com wrote: > Dear Friends and Fellow Fans of Experimental Music > Just a moment of your time to let you know.. ...lots of information about what looks to be an extremely cool show, EXCEPT the city/state where this show is taking place. DOH! -Adam --- "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue, out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one becomes a Hearer." - Chandrakirti T h e D a r k A e t h e r P r o j e c t http://www.ari.net/prog/bands/dap/ From ???@??? Thu Apr 30 09:37:17 1998 Return-path: Envelope-to: kflint@annihilist.com Delivery-date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 08:54:01 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUvek-0005LC-00; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 08:53:54 -0700 Message-ID: <35489D1F.D1069532@vm.temple.edu> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 11:47:43 -0400 From: Sean O'Donnell Reply-To: sodonne@vm.temple.edu Organization: Temple University Center for Research in Human Development and Education X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adam Levin CC: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Spin-17 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ieho7.A.7ZE.i0JS1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5388 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 08:53:54 -0700 X-UIDL: d8739187db3bcf24314580d6293f57f8 I do believe that's in NYC. By the way, Ed Chang is a musical looping guru. Without a doubt, this is an event to check out. Sean Adam Levin wrote: > > On Thu, 30 Apr 1998 Edward_Chang@mail.amsinc.com wrote: > > > Dear Friends and Fellow Fans of Experimental Music > > Just a moment of your time to let you know.. > > ...lots of information about what looks to be an extremely cool show, > EXCEPT the city/state where this show is taking place. DOH! > > -Adam > > --- > "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue, > out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one > becomes a Hearer." > - Chandrakirti > > T h e D a r k A e t h e r P r o j e c t > http://www.ari.net/prog/bands/dap/ From ???@??? Fri May 01 02:04:49 1998 Return-path: Envelope-to: kflint@annihilist.com Delivery-date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:34:15 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUz5w-0000Fy-00; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:34:12 -0700 X-Lotus-FromDomain: AMSINC From: Edward_Chang@mail.amsinc.com To: nyfac2@nyfac.com cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Message-ID: <852565F6.00686FB9.00@ams-central-gate-5a.amsinc.com> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 15:06:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Spin-17 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"mGfv9B.A.i7G.lCNS1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5393 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:34:12 -0700 X-UIDL: 730dee4ef5fa74f223385c60f7b65a08 That's right! Oh well, we should try to meet somewheres anyways. Spin-17 is playing first at 9pm, Donald's playing at 10 or so.... As far as loop-content in this post ;) , I'll be using both the PDX8000 (echo+) box and the old DFX94 in series. That's been my setup for about 2 years now and I'm still discovering new things and techniques with that. Despite their lofi capabilities, I still swear by them...at least until the DFX98 and the Space Station thingy I keep been hearing about comes along. ed tdbajus on 04/30/98 07:07:10 AM Please respond to nyfac2@nyfac.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com cc: (bcc: Edward Chang/AMS/AMSINC) Subject: Re: Spin-17 But that's at the same time as my show! (also in NYC) But, seriously folks, when do the festivities start? My gig should be over @ 10:30 or so, and we drop our gear off practically next door. I would forward to meeting some of our members in the flesh, so to speak. tdb From ???@??? Fri May 01 02:04:48 1998 Return-path: Envelope-to: kflint@annihilist.com Delivery-date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:33:53 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yUz5c-0000EM-00; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:33:52 -0700 X-Lotus-FromDomain: AMSINC From: Edward_Chang@mail.amsinc.com To: sodonne@vm.temple.edu cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Message-ID: <852565F6.00690C97.00@ams-central-gate-5a.amsinc.com> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 15:10:12 -0400 Subject: Sean O ' Maestro Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"DUE-6.A.X6G.eCNS1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5392 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:33:52 -0700 X-UIDL: 9cadc9f7449720c74adf56d67c7fa5c6 However just for the record, Sean O'Donnell is Philly's looping Maestro. I've heard some things he's remixed which were totally mind-boggling. ed Sean O'Donnell on 04/30/98 11:47:43 AM Please respond to sodonne@vm.temple.edu To: Adam Levin cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com (bcc: Edward Chang/AMS/AMSINC) Subject: Re: Spin-17 I do believe that's in NYC. By the way, Ed Chang is a musical looping guru. Without a doubt, this is an event to check out. Sean Adam Levin wrote: > > On Thu, 30 Apr 1998 Edward_Chang@mail.amsinc.com wrote: > > > Dear Friends and Fellow Fans of Experimental Music > > Just a moment of your time to let you know.. > > ...lots of information about what looks to be an extremely cool show, > EXCEPT the city/state where this show is taking place. DOH! > > -Adam > > --- > "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue, > out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one > becomes a Hearer." > - Chandrakirti > > T h e D a r k A e t h e r P r o j e c t > http://www.ari.net/prog/bands/dap/ From ???@??? Fri May 01 02:04:54 1998 Return-path: Envelope-to: kflint@annihilist.com Delivery-date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:58:24 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yV0PO-0006EO-00; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:58:22 -0700 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199804302051.NAA19317@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Ken Rosser? To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:51:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <852565F6.00690C97.00@ams-central-gate-5a.amsinc.com> from "Edward_Chang@mail.amsinc.com" at Apr 30, 98 03:10:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"NYWiAD.A.-PF.OROS1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5394 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:58:22 -0700 X-UIDL: 98f62ad6d88a27332fcae9667fd5b8eb Is there someone here named Ken Rosser? I'm just curious because there's a guitarist by that name scheduled to play with the Tom Heasley Trio at Spruce Street Forum (a new music club dedicated to improvised music) in San Diego. Thanks, Paolo From ???@??? Fri May 01 02:05:05 1998 Return-path: Envelope-to: kflint@annihilist.com Delivery-date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 15:27:36 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yV1nj-000529-00; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 15:27:35 -0700 Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:21:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Adam Levin To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Always Almost/Dark Aether Project in Baltimore 5/14/98 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"fO71OC.A.CRE.qmPS1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5395 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 15:27:35 -0700 X-UIDL: 6ce2dbe22db46a6d408d0132cac6e2c9 On Thursday, May 14th Always Almost and The Dark Aether Project will perform at E.J. Bugs at 702 South Broadway Street in Baltimore, MD. Start time is 9PM. Admission is free. Always Almost features Brett Kull, Ray Weston and Paul Ramsey who have previously performed together in the bands Echolyn and Still in addition to collaborations with others such as Mercury Records recording artists, Grey Eye Glances. Always Almost's recent release "God Pounds His Nails" on Pleasant Green Records features mature songwriting with a soulful edge which at times exhibits nods to The Beatles, The Who and Gentle Giant. See http://rocket.to/alwaysalmost/ for more information about Always Almost. The Dark Aether Project features Adam Levin (Chapman Stick, Loops, Guitar), Yaman Aksu (Fretted and Fretless Guitars, Guitar Synthesizer), Brian Griffin (Percussion) and special guest Jason Wilson (Vocals). Progression magazine says "...jazz-inflected, often minimalistic progressive...foreboding soundscape[s]...classy...offers mature musicianship without pretentiousness." William Bajzek writes in Tap Reviews: "This is a great one for fans of Trey Gunn, Philharmonie, or the Stick in general... The band has great chemistry and cool ideas that are executed well." See http://www.ari.net/prog/bands/dap/ for more information about The Dark Aether Project. Each band will have their recent CD releases available for sale at the show. Directions to E.J. Bugs: Take 95 to 395 and follow signs for Downtown. Turn right on Conway Turn left on Light Turn right on Pratt Turn right on President Turn left on Fleet Turn right on Broadway The club is at 702 Broadway just past Aliceanna St. -Adam --- "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue, out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one becomes a Hearer." - Chandrakirti T h e D a r k A e t h e r P r o j e c t http://www.ari.net/prog/bands/dap/ From ???@??? Fri May 01 02:05:18 1998 Return-path: Envelope-to: kflint@annihilist.com Delivery-date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:59:25 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yV3EZ-0003w5-00; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:59:23 -0700 Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:53:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804302353.QAA02008@ns2.vphos.net> X-Sender: apiffer@mail.bulkley.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: apiffer@mail.bulkley.net Subject: Boomerang vs. BOSS delay? Resent-Message-ID: <"MSa3dB.A.GOD.g8QS1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5396 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:59:23 -0700 X-UIDL: 3da4421ec5761a8a030930030c00a935 Hello all... At the moment I use a BOSS delay pedal for my looping. I want to get something that can offer a lot more flexibility, so I'm thinking about a Boomerang unit... how is the Boomerang's sound quality compared to that of a BOSS delay pedal? I loop with electric guitar and the BOSS delay's sound quality is good enough for me... Thanks for any info... From ???@??? Fri May 01 02:05:23 1998 Return-path: Envelope-to: kflint@annihilist.com Delivery-date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:57:35 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yV54w-0004NP-00; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:57:34 -0700 From: Crossedout Message-ID: <9b7c13d6.35492ad8@aol.com> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 21:52:23 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Roland SP808? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Resent-Message-ID: <"kCiMUD.A.esD.UsSS1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5398 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:57:34 -0700 X-UIDL: a163f8fd0c8cec5c3af7b5240453d214 In a message dated 98-04-30 20:20:18 EDT, you write: << Has anyone tried the new Roland "groove sampler"? I'm curious as to how it compares to the Akai MPC2000. For some reason the SP-808 seems to lack a built-in MIDI sequencer (which the Akai has). >> I haven't gotten my hands on one yet, but it definitely looks interesting. I think the reason it is lacking a MIDI sequencer is it assumes you are going to create tracks on the onboard recorder, rather than using it as a workstation to control other gear, whereas the MPC is a drum machine and MIDI controller with a sampler built into it. Not to say the MPC is not a great sampler - I love it, and I'd certianly rather have it than a Roland product. It just seems that Akai tends to term it a "sampling drum machine" rather than a "sampler AND drum machine". Although the D-Beam control does look like fun..... - Bill Crossedout@aol.com - The Roller zine - http://members.aol.com/crossedout/ From ???@??? Fri May 01 02:05:32 1998 Return-path: Envelope-to: kflint@annihilist.com Delivery-date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 22:04:20 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yV7zf-00003Q-00; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 22:04:19 -0700 From: KRosser414 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 00:59:18 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Ken Rosser? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Resent-Message-ID: <"I1hBAD.A.q_G.NbVS1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5399 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 22:04:19 -0700 X-UIDL: d5d4e190e768b48c72ba7d6bd6bf4230 In a message dated 98-04-30 16:55:40 EDT, you write: << Is there someone here named Ken Rosser? Yo.... > I'm just curious because there's a guitarist by that name scheduled > to play with the Tom Heasley Trio at Spruce Street Forum (a new music >club dedicated to improvised music) in San Diego. Yes, that's me again.... Ken