From ???@??? Sat Mar 01 11:45:25 1997 >From kflint Sat Mar 1 07:50:35 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w0r3S-0003N7-00; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 07:50:34 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 12:55:55 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Kyma Resent-Message-ID: <"c6fYzB.A.wFD.-_EGz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2218 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 07:50:34 -0800 X-UIDL: 52430a70e4d26bbd7e638ba774af45bb Jim poked: >I was lucky enough to spend some time with the Kyma system >at Symbolic Sound a couple weeks ago, and have to say that >in addition to all the other things it can do, Kyma makes >a kick-ass looper. The wavetable RAM (i.e. were digital audio >is held) can be configured to hold any number of delays and samples, >then sampler objects can be used to read from delays or samples >(or any part of wavetable memory). The sampler objects can have >their playback rates and looping points modified in real time >by any control signal (midi CC, envelope folowers, etc). Using >an lfo on the playback rate, we were able to get a chorus effect, >and by moving the looping points w/ midi CC messages, all sorts >of neat rythmic modulations could be created from a simple starting >pattern. So this is all controllable graphically, somewhat like MAX? Can you operate the looper while playing? I guess you can configure foot switches to do the jobs. Did you? Yes, I would like to hear some more, seams to be a futuristic machine! Matthias From ???@??? Sun Mar 02 21:51:32 1997 >From kflint Sat Mar 1 12:33:31 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w0vTG-0007LC-00; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 12:33:30 -0800 Message-Id: <199703012030.MAA11008@mailtod-2.alma.webtv.net> From: inti@webtv.net (Carlos Carrillo) Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 12:30:50 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Kyma Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV 1.0) Resent-Message-ID: <"6Zrm7B.A.4uG.8HJGz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2219 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 12:33:30 -0800 X-UIDL: 521fa2432ad2c007f5a73c64da6ef2b3 Greetings everyone. The Kyma system uses a separate rackmountable unit called the Capybara for its I/Os and DSP processing. This is cool because it does not rely on the host computer for its number crunching, and is expandable through the addition of more processing cards for expanded capabilities. The system itself is very sophisticated, and highly configurable. It is like having a very advanced modular synthesizer in your computer. On this machine you have access to virtually any synthesis technique ever deviced, some of these include subtractive, additive, granular, FM, resynthesis, and much much more! You could not only use it as a regular midi instrument, but also as a very advanced sound processor to manipulate any sound source, and of course it wouldn't be any fun if every parameter wasn't controllable through MIDI. You could set up MAX to really freak it out!! The one drawback is that it is expensive (around 3000.00 for a basic system) so start saving up! I sure would love to have such a powerful system. Carlos R. Carrillo From ???@??? Sun Mar 02 21:51:37 1997 >From kflint Sat Mar 1 15:28:42 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w0yCo-0006xX-00; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 15:28:42 -0800 From: Christopher Burns Message-Id: <199703012324.SAA32188@lynx.dac.neu.edu> Subject: tape looping Q's To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 18:24:01 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"__B4aC.A.nUG.XqLGz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2220 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 15:28:42 -0800 X-UIDL: 45dd4e0805bfa010bacd302139cc0665 hi- i'm new to the list, and even though i've perused the backcatalogue of the list, i could not really find any mentions of tape looping. forgive me if this stuff has been asked before, but what is the accepted method of constructing a cassette tape loop? i've been experimenting with different methods for weeks, but no luck. the tape always hitches or is too tight, or some annoying technical problem like that. i know that there is far better equipment out there, but this is the part of looping that really intrigues me, and i'm more into the lo-fi end of things. any help on this would be greatly appreciated. thanks, chris From ???@??? Sun Mar 02 21:51:38 1997 >From kflint Sat Mar 1 16:04:47 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w0yli-0000iA-00; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 16:04:46 -0800 Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 18:55:21 -0500 (EST) From: MiqSk8@aol.com Message-ID: <970301185520_245521988@emout16.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: new plex!!!!!!!!! Resent-Message-ID: <"gcF7.A.QR.sIMGz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2221 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 16:04:46 -0800 X-UIDL: 9ddce37d93bda1c43f58bce5e1e46e6b YAYAYAYAYAY finally managed to rustle up one of these guys! a good price($569+110 pedal). the only problems is the retailer lost the manual. they're going to work on it, but i'm antsy. i was wondering if anybody(kim?) could give me a contact for a manual. that would ensure my getting one. the other thing is more difficult or easier, while i've read most of the site, if some kind soul could put togather some terse words about each of the buttons on this guy(oops wrong product!) it would be really cool. i've been looking forward to joining you all in this somewhat circular world- my only tool to this point was my rp-10, which i've managed to make work, but 1.8 sec absolute max was just not nearly enough. thanks to all the loopers out there for their input/output especially with the site. From ???@??? Sun Mar 02 21:51:39 1997 >From kflint Sat Mar 1 17:13:04 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w0zpm-0003e1-00; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 17:13:02 -0800 Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 20:06:27 -0500 (EST) From: PainPete@aol.com Message-ID: <970301200627_787270384@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: tape looping Q's Resent-Message-ID: <"TX6TQC.A.RJD.SLNGz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2222 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 17:13:02 -0800 X-UIDL: 4a3c5c295d7d23a7e1452a0451aef3cf I share your love of analog home-brewed solutions, but I don't know how to make a reliable cassette loop. I always use 1/4" tape when I use tape, but that's when I'm lucky enough to have two reels around and even then it's pretty unstable. But it sounds cool anyway. BTW Are you talking about a static loop? Or a regenerative loop? If you have great amounts of patience, you could try taking apart two cheap decks and rigging up a system like two reel decks feeding back - Oh, what am I saying? (My mind is filled with jumbled visions of erector sets, pulleys, exposed tape heads and transports, and a lot of nerves of steel...I think this is a project for the mechanically enclined). In a message dated 97-03-01 18:25:25 EST, you write: << hi- i'm new to the list, and even though i've perused the backcatalogue of the list, i could not really find any mentions of tape looping. forgive me if this stuff has been asked before, but what is the accepted method of constructing a cassette tape loop? i've been experimenting with different methods for weeks, but no luck. the tape always hitches or is too tight, or some annoying technical problem like that. i know that there is far better equipment out there, but this is the part of looping that really intrigues me, and i'm more into the lo-fi end of things. any help on this would be greatly appreciated. thanks, chris >> From ???@??? Sun Mar 02 21:51:43 1997 >From kflint Sat Mar 1 17:17:18 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w0ztt-0003tp-00; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 17:17:17 -0800 Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 17:14:45 -0800 (PST) From: Stew Benedict Subject: Korg G1 Distortion Processor For Sale To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com cc: stickwire-l@netcom.com In-Reply-To: <970301185520_245521988@emout16.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"mOeZzD.A.VhD.JSNGz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2223 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 17:17:17 -0800 X-UIDL: 6fa97f1ab4a317f840a5c4b0511b93a4 Not exactly loop or Stick related but perhaps someone is interested: Korg G1 Distortion Processor 9 preset distortions: (6 actually + 3 with Wah) Classic OD Tube OD High Gain Distortion Shred Distortion Fuzz Octafuzz Classic OD Classic OD + Wah High Gain Dist + Wah Shred Dist + Wah Speaker Simlation EQ Digital Delay Input/Output Level User Programmable Programmable Gain/Patch Bank Select/Program Footswitches 9 Patches Expression Pedal Jack (Wah) Tuner Jack Headphone Jack Amp/Line Outputs I've had it two months, not a bad box, but I don't need it now with an SE-70. Asking $100, I'll pick up the shipping. Stew Benedict benedict@netcom.com From ???@??? Sun Mar 02 21:51:44 1997 >From kflint Sat Mar 1 17:27:55 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w1049-0004Q8-00; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 17:27:53 -0800 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199703020125.RAA06040@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: Kyma To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 17:25:44 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <199703012030.MAA11008@mailtod-2.alma.webtv.net> from "Carlos Carrillo" at Mar 1, 97 12:30:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"UNCkgB.A.7_D.ccNGz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2224 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 17:27:53 -0800 X-UIDL: 6cc05a5d610b53ced1ea38e66ef47dfd > Greetings everyone. The Kyma system uses a separate rackmountable unit I like the "rackmountable" part. Combine this with a laptop computer to play "host" and it sounds like we'd have a portable setup. > called the Capybara for its I/Os and DSP > processing. This is cool because it does not rely on the host computer > for its number crunching, and is expandable > through the addition of more processing cards for expanded capabilities. > The system itself is very sophisticated, and highly configurable. It is > like having a very advanced modular synthesizer in your computer. On > this machine you have access to virtually any synthesis technique > ever deviced, some of these include > subtractive, additive, granular, FM, resynthesis, and much much more! > You could not only use it as a regular midi instrument, but also as a > very advanced sound processor to manipulate any sound source, and of > course it wouldn't be any fun if every parameter wasn't controllable > through MIDI. You could set up MAX to really freak it out!! > The one drawback is that it is expensive > (around 3000.00 for a basic system) so start saving up! I sure would But if you add up the cost of separate samplers, synths, and effects processors to put together a system of comparable power, the Kyma- Capybara combo sounds like a heck of a bargain. BTW, I heard of a trackball you can control with your foot! I can imagine some twisted genius thinking of ways to use it to control effects/MIDI/looping devices. Paolo Valladolid --------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ---------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Sun Mar 02 21:51:54 1997 >From kflint Sat Mar 1 18:53:54 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w11PN-0000Lr-00; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 18:53:53 -0800 Message-Id: <199703020251.SAA02270@mailtod-2.alma.webtv.net> From: inti@webtv.net (Carlos Carrillo) Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 18:51:53 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Kyma Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV 1.0) Resent-Message-ID: <"LXwV8.A.TO.NtOGz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2225 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 18:53:53 -0800 X-UIDL: 5f672f2be9367edef3d81e4c26a98739 If anyone is really interested in this system, Kyma has a website that can give a lot more information about it. http://www.symbolicsound.com/kyma.html There are also other similar software/hardware combinations that are in the works, or being produced. One of them is the Ares-Iris system which is being manufactured by Bontempi/Farfisa in Europe. This system is very powerful and capable of similar results as the Kyma-Capybara combination. Another exciting new technology is a chip developed by Analog Devices, which uses a very advanced sound creation language called Csound to generate realtime effects and instruments. Hopefully, these chips will find their way into the innards of your favorite gear in the near future. Carlos R. Carrillo From ???@??? Sun Mar 02 21:52:01 1997 >From kflint Sat Mar 1 22:27:57 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w14kW-0000jp-00; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 22:27:56 -0800 Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 01:24:19 -0500 (EST) From: David Talento X-Sender: legion@omni2 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: tape looping Q's In-Reply-To: <970301200627_787270384@emout08.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"QpjlXD.A.Om.m1RGz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2226 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 22:27:56 -0800 X-UIDL: d41d47d7939170a7acb44cefa4222896 > I share your love of analog home-brewed solutions, but I don't know how to > make a reliable cassette loop. I always use 1/4" tape when I use tape, but > i'm new to the list, and even though i've perused the backcatalogue of > the list, i could not really find any mentions of tape looping. forgive > me if this stuff has been asked before, but what is the accepted method > of constructing a cassette tape loop? i've been experimenting with I'm coming in late here so forgive me if this has already been brought up but an *excellent* and compact form of tape loops is the old 8track tape. It uses 1/4" tape and every salvation army or thrift store probably has a couple lying around. They will undoubtably need repair but it's easy enough to do and I have been constructing tape loops by recording over the original tape on a recordable player that also came from a thrift store. The smallest loop you can do is just one revolution (about 8" or so) and you get about 4 secs on it. the good part it you get stereo loops *and* you get 4 different loops (Just hit the track button on your player). This is a new discovery for me (I've been using reel to reels and a digital echoplex fed cassettes live) but it's a very inexpensive one and works like a charm. The essential ingredient in this is knowing a bit about 8track tapes and their construction and there is an excellent web page called 8Track Mind (sorry I don't know the URL offhand but it's in the better search engines). I know this may sound ridiculous to some but it is *way* easier than a normal cassette loop and if you luck out and find a recordable 8track player you might just have a very unique tool. I spent a night disecting old Moody Blues and Eddie Money 8tracks I got for $.25 at a flea market and found some good source stuff right in the original tape :) At very least you'll have fun once you get the hang of it. -------- Help Wanted Productions - Bringing you the best in organic electronic and sweaty rock music since we started. Http://www.voicenet.com/~legion Available next month: "The Feedback Machine" a new studio album from the Music for Isolation Tanks live lineup. Only $6.00 postpaid! From ???@??? Sun Mar 02 21:52:17 1997 >From kflint Sun Mar 2 09:23:20 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w1Eyl-0000Io-00; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 09:23:19 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 11:41:06 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: GR 1 Expansion Board Help Resent-Message-ID: <"pOSAkD.A.1G.5abGz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2228 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 09:23:19 -0800 X-UIDL: 4b26e938946d162779c1e2c8781edf5e I want to change the program change message sent from my GR 1 when I change patches from the expansion board. When I go to write this in I'm hit with a "Protect" Function. Does anyone have any experience getting around this? Peace, Patrick :-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_- Patrick Smith ..... Patrick@his.com .... ... .. . *** *** ** Fingerpaint http://www.his.com/~patrick/FNGP.html *** ** ^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^ ^^ Solaris Guitar Trio .. .. . .. .http://www.xdc.com/solaris/ :-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_ From ???@??? Sun Mar 02 21:52:08 1997 >From kflint Sun Mar 2 05:35:32 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w1BQJ-0002aQ-00; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 05:35:31 -0800 Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 07:24:27 -0500 (EST) From: Stew Benedict To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: tape looping Q's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"rbKiV.A.1WC.YHYGz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2227 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 05:35:31 -0800 X-UIDL: 54b52b22fed9b3401bb0d350917c5fd8 There are also loop cassettes about, if you look hard. They used to be used in some answering machines. They're fairly short, I think the longest I've seen is 3 minutes. I've used them in my Fostex 4-track, which runs at double speed, giving me 4 tracks of 1.5 minute loops. They're constructed very similarly to an 8-track tape, with the tape coming out of the center and the perimeter of the spool. Not the hardiest of media, I'd rather do it digitally, but they're pretty cheap if you can find them. Stew Benedict From ???@??? Sun Mar 02 21:52:20 1997 >From kflint Sun Mar 2 13:38:18 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w1IxV-0003iI-00; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 13:38:17 -0800 Message-ID: <331A0E7B.1888@interaccess.com> Date: Sun, 02 Mar 1997 15:34:19 -0800 From: Jim Coker X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: more on Kyma..... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"i3SZ1D.A.TWD.rKfGz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2229 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 13:38:17 -0800 X-UIDL: 30b39e452a823501f2bcb2f467e3bf54 As Carlos mentioned, the Kyma software can build sound algorithms that use any number of synthesis techniques. One of the really nice things is that their software is designed to make building algorithms fast and easy. Most operations are based on a drag-and-drop metaphor, and there are many useful shortcuts. Another thing about their software that is nice is that, unlike MAX, in which almost everything has to be set up graphically (which can be *very* tedious), Kyma allows the programmer to express some parameters in mathematical expressions, or even write Smalltalk scrips to modify or generate sounds. In reference to Matthias' questions, most parameters on sound objects (such as delay times, frequency settings, filter bandwidth and frequency) are controllable in real time, and without glitches. Put an lfo on a short delay, and you get a flanger. (Delay lengths can be specified in a number of ways, such as in seconds, or samples, or relative to something else) Control signals can come from midi, or all sorts of other things, frequency trackers, envelope followers, other audio signals, or signals built by processing other signals. When I was there, a Peavey PC1600 fader box (16 programmable midi faders and assorted buttons) was set up to control sound parameters. This is what I used during the looping test (no foot controller available). One interesting patch used an evelope follower to control a pitch shifter, the louder the signal, the higher the shift. The result, when combined w/ a few filters, was an excellent "cartoonization" sound that with one filter setting made the speaker sound like goofy, and another setting made it more like daffy duck. Another nice patch involved a "harmonic resonator", a special kind of filter that resonates at a given pitch and all it's harmonics. It worked great w/ guitar, as you could 'play into' it, bending notes so that they resonated as they were bent into the resonated pitch. Probably the most unique capabilities of the system revolve around it's analysis and resynthesis capabilities. Their latest software version comes w/ a configureable vocoder w/ up to 70 filter bands. In addition to real time vocoding, you can analyize a sample (drums, vocals and animal sounds work best, due to their widely varying formants) to build a time-varying filter bank, and then use this filter bank to process a live signal. If the analysis sample is speech, and the filter is swept at the 'original' speed, the result sounds like a regular vocoding, but if you control the time sweep of the filter bank with, say a midi CC pedal, then you have a very customized sort of wah-wah pedal that you can rock to move forwards and backwards through the filters at will. (How about a meow-meow pedal? or a barking pedal, or a "Dammit" pedal, or a ...) For really hard-core stuff, you can use an FFT analysis to convert the signal from the time domain into the freqency domain, and do processing there (such as stretching or scaling harmonics, pitch and time shifting, etc), and then resynthesize the result using an oscillator bank. This is the approach used by Digital Performer 1.7 and others to do pitch shifting w/o ugly artifacts. Kyma can do this in real time, minus a 1/4sec delay due to FFT windowing issues (For a clear explanation of this, look for the Curtis Roads book I mentioned in the earlier post). Unfortunately it takes a Capybara w/ 5 to 6 cards to do this, but you can do the analysis on a sample ahead of time, and do the processing and resynthesis in real time and use fewer resources. The big FFT takes about 2.5 cards (according to Kurt Hebel) and you can get about 51 oscillators on each card for resynthesis. Another sound of interest is the waveshaper, which can be used to introduce new harmonics into a signal. Waveshapers are great for producing distortion, and the nice thing about the Kyma one is that the waveshaping function can be controlled in real time. In one patch, they had 8 sliders set to control the coefficients of the function. A bit too much for playing, but pretty good when searching for sounds. The only dissapointment I had was with the frequency tracker. It works amazingly well w/ vocals, but didn't do so great on a guitar. The response time was at least as good as a Roland GI-10 midi converter and it did track vibrato and other pitch nuances very well, but it would often guess the wrong octave, and get confused by string noise. However, this was only a first try and given some tweaking w/ filters and such, I bet that it can be improved to the point where it is accurate enough to be really 'playable'. One big change that would make it better would be to use hexaphonic input a-la GK2, which would restrict the pitch guessing range, and avoid multi-string noises. Currently Kyma only has 2 inputs and 2 outputs, but they are working on increasing this. They get many requests to increase the number of outputs, but Kurt said that this was the first time they had a solid reason for having multiple inputs, and that they would prefer to do an expansion w/ a balanced number of inputs and outputs. Carla, who plays harp, thought about it a bit and said that she really would like to have a 'digital' harp... Also as Carlos mentioned, it is expensive, $4400 for a 2 card system (the price slowly is going down, very slowly), and $600 for each expansion card. Each card has a 66Mhz 56002 w/ 3MB of RAM (all processing is 24 bit), and each card's ram can be expanded ($100 to push it to 12MB). In terms of the processing power available, I was able to get a simple (2 osciallators, filter, 2 envelopes, mixing and lfo) 4 voice synth running on a card, and I think an 11-band vocoder will fit on a card. It is not as efficent as a dedicated device, but is much more flexible, and does compare well w/ other music toys in its price range. It doesn't have all the neat programs that would come w/ a top-end Eventide box, but is a lot more flexible. Kurt and Carla both very much believe that an external DSP mainframe is preferable to processing using a general computer, and I tend to agree. Even though the DSP's are slower than the chips in new PC's, they are more efficent at processing audio and don't have to bother with the operating system overhead. Also, the capybara is expandable, and they plan to support faster chip speeds w/o having to force users to get a new mainframe. You could buy a 200Mhz PC or Mac and run CSound on it, but for serious programs it would consume all the available processing power, and would not be very upgradeable. Kyma can run simutaneously w/ a sequencer or MAX on a modest MAC or PC. Symbolic Sound is also working on a PC-card interface so you can use Kyma w/ a laptop. Probably the closest competitor is MAX/FTS from IRCAM in France. It is a version of MAX that can handle audio information. The audio processing bits are compiled and loaded onto custom hardware for processing (just like Kyma), problem is, they keep changing the hardware platform (first a Next box with intel i860 chips, then SGI, then PC's, and the latest rumor is that they're back to using Macs) and it's not a real product, but an ongoing research project. Kyma has been evolving for 10 years, and their software shows it, both in quality and depth. If you're really interested in more about Kyma, you can get the manual for $35+shipping, and there's also a good review in the July '95 issue of Electronic Musician, and, of course, they have a web site. jim From ???@??? Sun Mar 02 23:52:02 1997 >From kflint Sun Mar 2 22:54:03 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w1RdJ-0006tf-00; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 22:54:01 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 22:44:44 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: new plex!!!!!!!!! Resent-Message-ID: <"Nq_pQB.A.5MG.cQnGz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2230 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 22:54:01 -0800 X-UIDL: 9836a8068d6b3d76e0eb5a4c69eaf505 At 6:55 PM 3/1/97, MiqSk8@aol.com wrote: >YAYAYAYAYAY >finally managed to rustle up one of these guys! a good price($569+110 pedal). >the only problems is the retailer lost the manual. they're going to work on >it, but i'm antsy. i was wondering if anybody(kim?) could give me a contact >for a manual. that would ensure my getting one. You could try contacting Oberheim directly: Oberheim 732 Kevin Ct. Oakland, CA 94633 510-635-9633 (I use "directly" very loosly there ;-) ) Or you can try Gibson's customer service, where you will have a much greater chance of talking to a friendly and possibly useful human: 1-800-4-GIBSON or 1-615-871-4500 Someday, when I have more time than I do at the moment, I will be putting the echoplex manual on the website in pdf format. (The original quark files somehow got on my disk, I have no idea how, honest) Several people have asked for that lately, so I'll try to get to it soon. >the other thing is more difficult or easier, while i've read most of the >site, if some kind soul could put togather some terse words about each of the >buttons on this guy(oops wrong product!) it would be really cool. someone else mind taking a crack at that? I'm too busy at the moment.... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Mon Mar 03 09:30:16 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 3 00:34:01 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w1TC4-0003Bq-00; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 00:34:00 -0800 X-Sender: leo@mail.dinonet.it X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Leonardo Cavallo Subject: HELP REQUEST Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 09:31:58 +0100 Message-ID: <19970303083157541.AAA340@modem3.dinonet.it> Resent-Message-ID: <"eobYPD.A.M4C.4xoGz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2231 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 00:34:00 -0800 X-UIDL: 38283d87e1cd183978452a51131e3768 Hi all loopers I'm new to the world of real time looping. My little experience is based on the repetitive use of computer sampling, pre recorded DATs and the incredible amount of sound layers from my .670ms delay (!!!). Now I'm looking for a looping device: a Jamman or an Echoplex. I found 2 used jamman but I arrived lately: they were already sold. Today I received this message: ---- I have an ehoplex in mint condition with the footswitch. Solid state model from the 70's. Make me an offer if interested.----- I don't know much about the Echoplex... I know in some way it's more efficient and versatile than the jamman (no flame here, please). The price is higher and delay time should be longer. Someone can gimme more tech info about it? And about the 70's models? Some difference or modification in the years, between the old and the new ones? Should I have to take in consideration for serious looping? And for the value? I have not idea of the market value of this item... Any info will be greatly appreciated. (I don't wanna bother you, so email me privately) Thanks Leo From ???@??? Tue Mar 04 02:06:27 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 3 10:07:56 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w1c9S-0002Oy-00; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 10:07:54 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 09:48:08 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: HELP REQUEST Resent-Message-ID: <"co90pB.A.j_.a-wGz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2232 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 10:07:54 -0800 X-UIDL: 5eb03621086f1e83aa5f1930520e9c45 At 9:31 AM 3/3/97, Leonardo Cavallo wrote: >Hi all loopers > >I'm new to the world of real time looping. My little experience is based on >the repetitive use of computer sampling, pre recorded DATs and the >incredible amount of sound layers from my .670ms delay (!!!). >Now I'm looking for a looping device: a Jamman or an Echoplex. >I found 2 used jamman but I arrived lately: they were already sold. >Today I received this message: > >---- I have an ehoplex in mint condition with the footswitch. Solid state >model from the 70's. Make me an offer if interested.----- This is a Maestro Echoplex, a tape delay. It has almost nothing in common with the Oberheim Echoplex Digital Pro that is often discussed on this list. The Oberheim echoplex is the one you seem to be looking for, as it is designed for real-time looping. As for a Jamman/echoplex comparison, we have the beginnings of such a thing on the Looper's Delight Web site. It may help you with your decision. http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tools/Plex_Jamman.html There is other info about both units on the web site, look it over and see if it helps. http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tools/echoplex/echoplex.html http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tools/jamman/jamman.html If you still have questions, just ask..... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Mar 04 02:06:43 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 3 12:01:36 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w1dvT-0003mq-00; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 12:01:35 -0800 Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 14:32:58 -0500 (EST) From: Aviansongs@aol.com Message-ID: <970303142536_-1573824741@emout03.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Kyma Resent-Message-ID: <"Kxp0o.A._LD.f0yGz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2233 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 12:01:35 -0800 X-UIDL: f8b47877f401389896640ce2cf628395 In a message dated 97-03-01 20:27:13 EST, you write: > BTW, I heard of a trackball you can control with your foot! I can > imagine some twisted genius thinking of ways to use it to control > effects/MIDI/looping devices. Where did you hear about this? Who manufactures it? Thanks, Marc From ???@??? Tue Mar 04 02:07:03 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 3 13:50:10 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w1fcV-0004nZ-00; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 13:50:07 -0800 Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 14:50:17 -0500 (EST) From: Aviansongs@aol.com Message-ID: <970303143445_-836886365@emout06.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Kyma Resent-Message-ID: <"ZaZRL.A.SNE.Mb0Gz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2236 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 13:50:07 -0800 X-UIDL: c90ab97d871f246c5ff9b3d31398bafa In a message dated 97-03-01 21:53:34 EST, you write: > Another exciting new technology is a chip developed by Analog Devices, > which uses > a very advanced sound creation language > called Csound to generate realtime effects > and instruments. Hopefully, these chips will find their way into the > innards of your favorite gear in the near future. > If you have a computer running at 133Mhz or faster, you can run Csound in real time. The best part about it is that you can download Csound for FREE! They have it at the Keyboard Mag. website - www.keyboardmag.com Marc From ???@??? Tue Mar 04 02:06:54 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 3 13:05:59 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w1evl-0000w4-00; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 13:05:57 -0800 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199703032101.NAA28557@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: Kyma To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 13:01:45 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <970303142536_-1573824741@emout03.mail.aol.com> from "Aviansongs@aol.com" at Mar 3, 97 02:32:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4VMUG.A.hk.-wzGz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2235 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 13:05:57 -0800 X-UIDL: 2f64de062e9a27c060339858736e985b > > In a message dated 97-03-01 20:27:13 EST, you write: > > > BTW, I heard of a trackball you can control with your foot! I can > > imagine some twisted genius thinking of ways to use it to control > > effects/MIDI/looping devices. > > Where did you hear about this? Who manufactures it? > Thanks, Marc Read about it in the special "Computer Link" extra section that comes with our local newspaper on Tuesdays. Unfortunately, I forgot the name of the product and the manufacturer. BTW, it's a trackball that sits on the floor and you move it with your foot. Paolo Valladolid --------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ---------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Tue Mar 04 02:07:51 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 3 22:15:19 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w1nVO-0002ea-00; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 22:15:18 -0800 From: Klimatic@ix.netcom.com Message-ID: <331B763E.5FA9@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 04 Mar 1997 01:09:19 +0000 Reply-To: Klimatic@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Locking a Jam Man to odd time Midi sequence Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"QpdZuB.A.xHC.oy7Gz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2237 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 22:15:18 -0800 X-UIDL: 0fef29e12fb8168b55d9600074b36455 Does anyone know a way to lock a Jam Man to a MIDI sequence based on an odd time signature? I know it's basically a preset piece but I wondered if any of you figured out a way around that limitation. From ???@??? Tue Mar 04 02:31:54 1997 >From kflint Tue Mar 4 02:14:23 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w1rEj-0005Ig-00; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 02:14:21 -0800 Message-Id: <199703041006.CAA30384@dsp.net> From: "James Reynolds" To: Subject: Re: Locking a Jam Man to odd time Midi sequence Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 02:06:31 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1160 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4GUM1D.A.fhE.wS_Gz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2238 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 02:14:22 -0800 X-UIDL: fc1be499d779ea0455fab57d3eb94ec6 > Does anyone know a way to lock a Jam Man to a MIDI sequence based on > an odd time signature? I know it's basically a preset piece but I > wondered if any of you figured out a way around that limitation. i accomplished this using opcode's MAX programming environment to bend the rules of midi sync a bit, but maybe there's an advanced sequencer that also lets you do strange things with the sync output. midi sync consists of the message "248" inserted into the outgoing midi stream 24 times per quarter note. so, if you have your jamman set at 4 quarter notes per loop, then it's expecting to receive 96 "pulses" before it restarts the loop. if you want the jamman to sync to a sequence in 5/4, have the sync source send the jamperson 96 pulses equally distributed over the duration of the 5/4 measure. at 60 bpm (i like 'em slow), a 5/4 measure will last 5000 milleseconds, so you would send the jamman a pulse every 52.08333... ms. little detail to worry about: at least for MAX, the resolution of timing objects is generally 1ms, so my algorithm actually divides the measure into durations something like 52ms, 52ms, *53ms*, 52ms, etc., that all add up to exactly 5000ms. one complaint i have about midi sync is that it's not channel-specific -- all 16 channels will receive the same sync (damn midi-standard-folks didn't count on people like me being into polymetrical stuff...) still, if you have two or more midi interfaces you can send different sync on each one. hope this helps... james From ???@??? Tue Mar 04 09:06:58 1997 >From kflint Tue Mar 4 08:06:03 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w1wj3-0001G4-00; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 08:06:01 -0800 Message-Id: <9444.199703041603@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 16:03:55 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: RE: Musicianship, live technique, etc... Resent-Message-ID: <"ocQzFC.A.sAB.rfEHz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2239 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 08:06:01 -0800 X-UIDL: 3d0324780576f43770a115c269103c9b >It's interesting to contrast these views as they relate to music and how >they relate to painting or drawing. I think if you brought up the subject >of audience's importance to most painters they would give you a long >questioning look, right after they finished laughing. Potential audience >receptivity is a problem for commercial artists, not "fine" artists. I'm >pretty much on the fence, myself. The problem is that there are artists with talent and artists without. And often artists without talent will hide behind the statement of "it's art". What I meant in my original statement is that, whilst you don't necessarily need to play _at_ an audience, if you expect to play to an audience (more than once!) it helps if they actually like it, rather than the performer hiding behind hyperbole of how it's an expression of an artist's inner soul. >I figure if I don't like what I'm doing, >nobody else will, either (although I've been proven wrong on that >before..). I think Allan Holdsworth regularly disproves that one! :) Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb From ???@??? Tue Mar 04 09:07:01 1997 >From kflint Tue Mar 4 08:45:20 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w1xL4-0003zH-00; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 08:45:18 -0800 From: Tom Attix To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Musicianship, live technique, etc... Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 08:38:53 -0800 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Message-Id: Resent-Message-ID: <"h4alGB.A.keD.gDFHz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2240 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 08:45:18 -0800 X-UIDL: 32bfaa5e81f83e04b27ee3a7412436e7 While I definitely agree with you on your points and there certainly is no shortage of overblown, ego inflated, crap in both art galleries and record stores, I can't help but think that the best way to succeed as an artist is to pursue your own voice. If you're successful in finding it, your audience will find you ( I know that sounds like particularly sentimental crap but think of artists like Richard Thompson or Robert Fripp or Frank Zappa or David Torn). Tom Attix Software Testing Engineer Microsoft Corporation toma@microsoft.com -----Original Message----- From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk [SMTP:pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk] Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 1997 8:04 To: Tom Attix Subject: RE: Musicianship, live technique, etc... >It's interesting to contrast these views as they relate to music and how >they relate to painting or drawing. I think if you brought up the subject >of audience's importance to most painters they would give you a long >questioning look, right after they finished laughing. Potential audience >receptivity is a problem for commercial artists, not "fine" artists. I'm >pretty much on the fence, myself. The problem is that there are artists with talent and artists without. And often artists without talent will hide behind the statement of "it's art". What I meant in my original statement is that, whilst you don't necessarily need to play _at_ an audience, if you expect to play to an audience (more than once!) it helps if they actually like it, rather than the performer hiding behind hyperbole of how it's an expression of an artist's inner soul. >I figure if I don't like what I'm doing, >nobody else will, either (although I've been proven wrong on that >before..). I think Allan Holdsworth regularly disproves that one! :) Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb From ???@??? Tue Mar 04 10:58:26 1997 >From kflint Tue Mar 4 09:31:15 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w1y3V-0007Mw-00; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 09:31:13 -0800 Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 12:27:08 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970304122721.2e0f7b82@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: km15@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16), Cornell Modified Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kevin Miller Subject: RE: Musicianship, live technique, etc... Resent-Message-ID: <"RrUU1D.A.plG.vtFHz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2241 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 09:31:13 -0800 X-UIDL: 115c56d2e5be7cb3f603360de890083d >What I meant in my original statement is that, whilst you don't necessarily >need to play _at_ an audience, if you expect to play to an audience (more >than once!) it helps if they actually like it, rather than the performer >hiding behind hyperbole of how it's an expression of an artist's inner >soul. Well, this is an interesting point. I think it sometimes helps, at various points in a performance, to inject a little fun, a bit of whimsy. This can stimulate an audience to maintain a connection to whats going on in the other aspects of a performance. Going back to the origins of this discussion, this concept could apply to the question of how to divide up a longish presentation. My first thought was sort of obvious, and someone else has discussed it- insert quieter sections that don't contain as much musical information while preparing for "busier" sections. My second thought was to insert a little fun between longer sections. What popped into my head, and I'm not suggesting anybody do this, was a fairly wacky idea: in stereo, samples of two animals having a conversation- could be two dogs barking at each other in escalating fashion, or a dog and a cat, whatever, possibly over some low drones, building up to the next long "serious" section. This is just one nutty example, possibly amusing only to myself, but the point is that if you can get the audience to at least smile, you've established a stronger connection. Obviously, if your performance is a dedication to the victims of Bosnia, this won't be appropriate, but I can see many instances where something whimsical could serve as a break between pieces. After 30 years of playing, I've discovered that juvenile wackiness is among my _better_ qualities! Just a thought, Kevin > >>I figure if I don't like what I'm doing, >>nobody else will, either (although I've been proven wrong on that >>before..). > >I think Allan Holdsworth regularly disproves that one! :) > >Michael > >Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, >Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. > "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb > > > > From ???@??? Tue Mar 04 10:58:28 1997 >From kflint Tue Mar 4 09:44:13 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w1yFz-0000d4-00; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 09:44:07 -0800 Message-ID: <01BC289A.B75AFF40@mark.asisoftware.com> From: Mark@asisoftware.com (Mark Kata) To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: Effects Processor with Random Function Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 12:50:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"COVbqD.A.eS.k6FHz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2242 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 09:44:07 -0800 X-UIDL: 8a970e55ab1b0886aa8f473597f0a926 Does anyone know of an effects processor that produces completely random and unpredictable effects each time its continuous controller pedal is pressed? Mark Kata Mark@asisoftware.com From ???@??? Tue Mar 04 10:58:40 1997 >From kflint Tue Mar 4 10:34:07 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w1z2I-0004Z9-00; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 10:34:02 -0800 Message-Id: <199703041825.NAA06175@acc.haverford.edu> Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 13:28:28 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: jspeer@haverford.edu Subject: Re: Effects Processor with Random Function Resent-Message-ID: <"hOBGv.A.eBE.opGHz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2244 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 10:34:02 -0800 X-UIDL: a8783ac63596c5fb5c9ce6c30825fb8e >Does anyone know of an effects processor that produces completely random and >unpredictable effects each time its continuous controller pedal is pressed? I don't know of such a thing that would work on its own. It wouldn't be hard, though, to send program and control change messages down MIDI from, say, a small Mac running MAX. Any multi fx unit that accepts control data will do. J From ???@??? Tue Mar 04 10:58:37 1997 >From kflint Tue Mar 4 10:21:25 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w1yq1-0003T3-00; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 10:21:21 -0800 Message-ID: <331C82F0.332F@interaccess.com> Date: Tue, 04 Mar 1997 12:15:44 -0800 From: Jim Coker X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Effects Processor with Random Function References: <01BC289A.B75AFF40@mark.asisoftware.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pApLyC.A.K6C.kcGHz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2243 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 10:21:21 -0800 X-UIDL: d643c3f07d680c5b588e53e8c9d0702e Mark Kata wrote: > > Does anyone know of an effects processor that produces completely random and unpredictable effects each time its continuous controller pedal is pressed? > > Mark Kata > Mark@asisoftware.com I'd try using MAX to process the CC pedal and send control messages to other processors. That way you could control multiple devices, and also write simple MAX patches that send out completely random events, or semi-random, or algorithmically generated. jim From ???@??? Tue Mar 04 22:39:57 1997 >From kflint Tue Mar 4 17:42:09 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w25iZ-0004vK-00; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 17:42:07 -0800 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199703042312.PAA14416@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: Kyma To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 15:12:48 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <970303143445_-836886365@emout06.mail.aol.com> from "Aviansongs@aol.com" at Mar 3, 97 02:50:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bCbPEB.A.7JE.v4MHz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2245 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 17:42:07 -0800 X-UIDL: 029aad8a2243acb6fe678e11919dcae4 > > In a message dated 97-03-01 21:53:34 EST, you write: > > > Another exciting new technology is a chip developed by Analog Devices, > > which uses > > a very advanced sound creation language > > called Csound to generate realtime effects > > and instruments. Hopefully, these chips will find their way into the > > innards of your favorite gear in the near future. > > > > If you have a computer running at 133Mhz or faster, you can run Csound > in real time. The best part about it is that you can download Csound for > FREE! They have it at the Keyboard Mag. website - www.keyboardmag.com > Marc > > True, but I'd still rather have the sound-realted operations running on a separate processor rather than tying up the CPU of my computer. Paolo Valladolid --------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ---------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Tue Mar 04 22:40:19 1997 >From kflint Tue Mar 4 19:29:42 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w27OO-0005o1-00; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 19:29:24 -0800 Message-Id: <199703050321.TAA16658@mailtod-1.alma.webtv.net> From: inti@webtv.net (Carlos Carrillo) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 19:21:28 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Kyma Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV 1.0) Resent-Message-ID: <"Xou1IB.A.7yE.AbOHz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2246 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 19:29:24 -0800 X-UIDL: 8cc22bda6b1ea04fda51fac05bdb8570 Not having to rely on a computer is what interested me most about the Analog Devices chip. I am not completely sure about all of its capabilities, but it wouldn't be hard to imagine a processor which could easily be modified by the user. Think of the new possibilities consumers could explore if we were given the freedom to load up different instrument, effects, recording, or sequencing algorithms. Imagine a rackmount unit that could be a synthesizer, a looper, a pitchshifter, etc. All of this could be manipulated by customizable realtime controllers such as the Peavey PC-1600, or a midi footpedal. I am probably going a little too far with the above description, but wouldn't it be wonderful if a manufacturer had the guts to create a tool of such versatility? Wouldn't it be great if they could trust us to decide what tools and features we need or want? I know home computers and their software can now do a lot, but their unreliable operating systems, noisy hardware, lack of tactile control, and bulk, make for a capricious and sometimes annoying creative tool. Carlos R. Carrillo From ???@??? Tue Mar 04 22:40:21 1997 >From kflint Tue Mar 4 21:31:12 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w29IC-0007Ma-00; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 21:31:08 -0800 Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 22:23:39 -0700 (MST) From: Dan Howarth To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: Re: Effects Processor with Random Function In-Reply-To: <01BC289A.B75AFF40@mark.asisoftware.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Uj5M7D.A.lnG.RRQHz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2247 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 21:31:08 -0800 X-UIDL: 0d4350e917d8d1d89a8b69c3c9d16ed2 > Does anyone know of an effects processor that produces completely > random and unpredictable effects each time its continuous controller > pedal is pressed? > the digitech studio quad has built in LFOs which can be assigned to modulate any parameter of any effect. the LFO can also be controlled in speed and waveform. i've experimented with these a little, and even on the surface you can create wild sounds. lately i've tried to step out from behind the fx, so to speak, so i haven't programmed any new sounds but i will again soon. i think the eventide units have this LFO/parameter ability. what other units are other? **************************************************************** ** Dan Howarth, History/Music, University of Arizona, Tucson ** ** http://www.u.arizona.edu/~howarth (under construction) ** **************************************************************** From ???@??? Wed Mar 05 09:02:39 1997 >From kflint Tue Mar 4 23:10:29 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w2AqK-00064S-00; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 23:10:28 -0800 Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 23:07:30 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: ngold@mail.teleport.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199703050321.TAA16658@mailtod-1.alma.webtv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Neil Goldstein Subject: Re: Kyma Resent-Message-ID: <"hwJfuB.A.mfF.DvRHz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2248 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 23:10:28 -0800 X-UIDL: ba2db6c4175e70d6ab3cb1f741f0c328 > I know home computers >and their software can now do a lot, but their unreliable operating >systems, noisy hardware, lack of tactile control, and bulk, make for a >capricious and sometimes annoying creative tool. > I love the power and visual ease of working with a computer but you hit the nail right on the head on why it just sometimes isn't very inspiring or *fun*. Well spoken. I sometimes get tripped up in trying to pick the best tool for the job, and I think I've sort of been "in denial" that sometimes working with the computer is "annoying". Also know there's lots of times I've capturing something with JamMan that I wished I would have first layered and multi-tracked into the computer (Logic Audio being my fav), before it became permanently mixed in mono! Neil ngold@teleport.com Portland, OR USA From ???@??? Thu Mar 06 02:20:11 1997 >From kflint Wed Mar 5 10:05:54 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w2L4X-0004zS-00; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 10:05:49 -0800 Message-ID: <331DD0EC.4F53@interaccess.com> Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 12:00:44 -0800 From: Jim Coker X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: noisy computers (was Re: Kyma) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"so11HD.A.QVE.9TbHz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2249 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 10:05:49 -0800 X-UIDL: 36e9e42da03fa4f3b06fe4347a525162 I have to aggree with you guys. I've been working with computers on an almost daily basis for many years, but they just don't seem to be as "useable" in a musical context as a dedicated unit w/ tactile controls (buttons & knobs). But on the other hand, computer sequencers are much more flexible than dedicated units. One thing I'm trying that seems to be working well is putting the CPU in a different room. I poked a 2" hole in the wall and put it on the other side (next to the sofa in my living room). Now my 'studio' (studio/darkroom/office/....) is very quiet. It's actually kind of weird to use a computer that doesn't make any noise. There's an article in last months Electronic Musician about cables to do this. jim Neil Goldstein wrote: > > > I know home computers > >and their software can now do a lot, but their unreliable operating > >systems, noisy hardware, lack of tactile control, and bulk, make for a > >capricious and sometimes annoying creative tool. > > > > I love the power and visual ease of working with a computer but you hit the > nail right on the head on why it just sometimes isn't very inspiring or > *fun*. Well spoken. > > I sometimes get tripped up in trying to pick the best tool for the job, and > I think I've sort of been "in denial" that sometimes working with the > computer is "annoying". > > Also know there's lots of times I've capturing something with JamMan that I > wished I would have first layered and multi-tracked into the computer > (Logic Audio being my fav), before it became permanently mixed in mono! > > Neil > ngold@teleport.com > Portland, OR USA From ???@??? Thu Mar 06 02:21:36 1997 >From kflint Wed Mar 5 21:49:02 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w2W32-0004FE-00; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 21:49:00 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 02:51:23 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Kyma Resent-Message-ID: <"etl5.A.PqD.PnlHz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2250 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 21:49:00 -0800 X-UIDL: e97987e71b2c1cc5d4dcf7c0a99657f8 >Not having to rely on a computer is what interested me most about >the Analog Devices chip. I am not completely sure about all of its >capabilities, but it wouldn't be hard to imagine a processor which could >easily be modified by the user. Think of the new possibilities consumers >could explore if we were given the freedom to load up different >instrument, effects, recording, or sequencing algorithms. Imagine a >rackmount unit that could be a synthesizer, a looper, a pitchshifter, >etc. All of this could be manipulated by customizable realtime >controllers such as the Peavey PC-1600, or a midi footpedal. >I am probably going a little too far with the above description, >but wouldn't it be wonderful if a manufacturer had the guts to create a >tool of such versatility? Wouldn't it be great if they could trust us to >decide what tools and features we need or want? I know home computers >and their software can now do a lot, but their unreliable operating >systems, noisy hardware, lack of tactile control, and bulk, make for a >capricious and sometimes annoying creative tool. Right! We could program the machine according to our capacities: Some use presets, others max, others assembler... We exchange the sounds on the lists or handle them like shareware... And since the thing will have several inputs, we can configure it for polyphonic (mostly hexaphonic) guitar or to organize our tape loops ;-> And when its set up, we can take the one unit 19" thing (!) to stage without needing a monitor, since we set it all up to operate from the only big foot pedal... A dream, but not very far Matthias From ???@??? Thu Mar 06 10:32:00 1997 >From kflint Thu Mar 6 09:10:39 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w2ggg-0003jq-00; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 09:10:38 -0800 Message-Id: <199703061658.KAA14133@smtp.gte.net> From: "Future Perfect" To: Subject: Loop/Ambient Shows in Philly/NJ area Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 12:01:37 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7KfEDC.A.DfC.QfvHz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2251 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 09:10:38 -0800 X-UIDL: 87b3617dff85dd5ee6a35e38bf6306d8 Hi! My duo will be travelling to the Philly/NJ area at the end of May to play a few shows in that area...I was wondering if any ambient/loop shows were being planned up there between May 28 and June 16, as we would love to be a part of one. Also, if anyone up there has any ideas about more places to play in that area, please let us know. Thanks!! Dave & Misha Future Perfect " 'Do' or 'do not', there is no 'try' " - Yoda, Jedi Master From ???@??? Fri Mar 07 02:05:11 1997 >From kflint Thu Mar 6 21:47:21 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w2sUy-00028T-00; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 21:47:20 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 00:03:56 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: Fingerpaint Live Resent-Message-ID: <"3eXvRB.A.nsB.Mr6Hz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2252 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 21:47:20 -0800 X-UIDL: f935fa521b47551240a1c58f883927ff Dear Loopers, The ambient/space music project, Fingerpaint, will be performing live on Thursday March 20th at 9pm at Planet X in College Park Maryland. Chill out and sip some coffee as we weave our sonic threads....... Then on Saturday March 22nd, Fingerpaint will be perfroming in the Mid-Atlantic Loop Show at the LionFish Coffeehouse in Philadelphia Pa. For more info on this event check out: http://atomsun.harvard.edu/broadside/loopshow.html For sound files and more information on Fingerpaint visit our site at: www.his.com/~patrick/FNGP.html GO there frequently....... Patrick *** *** ** Fingerpaint http://www.his.com/~patrick/FNGP.html *** ** From ???@??? Fri Mar 07 22:57:54 1997 >From kflint Fri Mar 7 19:23:06 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w3Cir-0003C8-00; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 19:23:01 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 00:26:26 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Kyma Resent-Message-ID: <"ojIdw.A.ytC.UrNIz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2253 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 19:23:01 -0800 X-UIDL: e47a024bafc94671c7d3a304af9a9572 Neil said >Also know there's lots of times I've capturing something with JamMan that I >wished I would have first layered and multi-tracked into the computer >(Logic Audio being my fav), before it became permanently mixed in mono! Definitally! If only Logic Audio had the features to record as live as with the Plex... We have been writing about this on the list, but as long as the thing does not exist, we will come back to the idea. Matthias From ???@??? Fri Mar 07 22:57:55 1997 >From kflint Fri Mar 7 19:23:33 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w3CjN-0003EO-00; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 19:23:33 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 00:26:43 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: more on Kyma..... Resent-Message-ID: <"jtNSlC.A.9xC.DsNIz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2254 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 19:23:33 -0800 X-UIDL: ca2f21504ff4cb471f103c7b8438a0bf Jim answered me: >In reference to Matthias' questions, most parameters on sound >objects (such as delay times, frequency settings, filter bandwidth >and frequency) are controllable in real time, and without glitches. >Put an lfo on a short delay, and you get a flanger. (Delay lengths can >be specified in a number of ways, such as in seconds, or samples, >or relative to something else) Control signals can come from midi, >or all sorts of other things, frequency trackers, envelope followers, >other audio signals, or signals built by processing other signals. >When I was there, a Peavey PC1600 fader box (16 programmable >midi faders and assorted buttons) was set up to >control sound parameters. This is what I used during the looping >test (no foot controller available). I see... but this I can do on my PCM80, as long as its just controlling parameters of a delay. I was thinking about the loop specific functions like Tap, Multiply, Undo, or rather sampler type functions like restarting the actual loop or changing to another loop and so on. Probably those functions will have to be created and I wondered how difficult this might be. >Another nice patch involved a "harmonic resonator", a special >kind of filter that resonates at a given pitch and all it's >harmonics. also available on PCM70/80 >Probably the most unique capabilities of the system revolve around >it's analysis and resynthesis capabilities. Their latest software >version comes w/ a configureable vocoder w/ up to 70 filter bands. >In addition to real time vocoding, you can analyize a sample >(drums, vocals and animal sounds work best, due to their widely >varying formants) to build a time-varying filter bank, and then use >this filter bank to process a live signal. ... >For really hard-core stuff, you can use an FFT analysis to convert >the signal from the time domain into the freqency domain, and do >processing there (such as stretching or scaling harmonics, pitch >and time shifting, etc), and then resynthesize the result using >an oscillator bank. This is the approach used by Digital Performer >1.7 and others to do pitch shifting w/o ugly artifacts. Kyma >can do this in real time, minus a 1/4sec delay due to FFT >windowing issues Interesting. This could certainly be used to colour and modulate loops. And in this case, the 250ms delay (thats a lot!) could be hidden somehow. >The only dissapointment I had was with the frequency tracker. >It works amazingly well w/ vocals, but didn't do so great on >a guitar. The response time was at least as good as a Roland >GI-10 midi converter and it did track vibrato and ... > One big change that would make >it better would be to use hexaphonic input a-la GK2, which would >restrict the pitch guessing range, and avoid multi-string noises. Did you play monophonic for this test, or is it even able to detect chords of a monophonic guitar?!? >Currently Kyma only has 2 inputs and 2 outputs, but they are working >on increasing this. They get many requests to increase the >number of outputs, but Kurt said that this was the first time they >had a solid reason for having multiple inputs, ... Ahh... we will end up making our own VGx, more serious, with all in it! >Kyma can run simutaneously w/ a >sequencer or MAX on a modest MAC or PC. Symbolic Sound is also >working on a PC-card interface so you can use Kyma w/ a laptop. Does it also work without any computer, on stage? Did you check the reverb sounds? If the KYMA replaces two Plexes and my two Lexicons, its not that expensive any more! >If you're really interested in more about Kyma, you can get the manual >for $35+shipping, and there's also a good review in the July '95 >issue of Electronic Musician, and, of course, they have a web >site. Thank you for this extended review, Jim! Matthias From ???@??? Sat Mar 08 15:55:55 1997 >From kflint Sat Mar 8 14:26:02 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w3UYz-0005pC-00; Sat, 8 Mar 1997 14:26:01 -0800 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199703082223.OAA04668@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: more on Kyma..... To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 14:23:02 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: from "Matthias Grob" at Mar 8, 97 00:26:43 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sNkO9C.A.ZTF.JbeIz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2255 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 14:26:01 -0800 X-UIDL: b2f15a8aa2d037baff3689825bf0d763 The possiblity of being able to drive a Kyma/Capybara system directly from a guitar without MIDI sounds pretty exciting. I wonder if there is a way to save performance configurations so that the Capybara can be operated standalone (without a host computer); controlled only by a guitar and a footpedal. Paolo From ???@??? Sat Mar 08 19:30:48 1997 >From kflint Sat Mar 8 19:15:52 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w3Z5R-000369-00; Sat, 8 Mar 1997 19:15:49 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 19:11:00 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: some echoplex playing hints Resent-Message-ID: <"vdJj3B.A.OyC.IsiIz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2256 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 19:15:49 -0800 X-UIDL: 2b3b908308a2a3c150535af1ce14262d The list has been sort of quiet. I guess you're all as busy as me these days! An echoplex user asked me a question privately that I think is sort of interesting, so I'm posting it along with my response. Hope it gives you guys some good ideas: dmgraph@bway.net (David Myers) sez: >A question has >arisen for me which perhaps you can answer. When loops grow pretty long >and the material gets atmospheric, I want to re-establish a groove--but one >LED blink per cycle (which might be once in 10 seconds) isn't sufficient >visual feedback. I'm sure that the MIDI clock out is one source which >could help. I know Anatek makes the "Pocket Sync" which will derive FSK >from MIDI, and I suppose I could slap together some CMOS clock divider/LED >solution, but do you imagine an easier way? Need an LED blip once or twice >a second, I'd say; the old Deltalab Echotron was pretty good at this .... Building hardware is one way, although I think it would be hard to really make it versatile enough. The echoplex generates midi clock based on how long the loop is and on what you have set the 8ths/beat parameter to. So your loops would always have to be the same number of beats or you would have to reset the parameter a lot, and I think there are easier ways. One idea is with your looping technique. With an atmospheric loop, you may want to try introducing a little bit of groove with each pass, building a rhythm. So you overdub something, and wait for it to come back again, so that you start hearing the rhythm. Slowly add more things and get it in time. I do that sometimes. Trouble with that approach, is that it can take a while before you have anything rhythmic again, and there is still room to screw it up! Some other approaches to try involve the echoplex's features. If you want to add a rhythmic groove to an ambient loop, you can simply redefine the loop time to fit the new groove! You do this with the Multiply-Record combination, which allows you to redefine the loop time without loosing the material already there. The Echoplex will either truncate the loop if the new length is shorter, or add some of it again if it is longer. Here's how you might do that: - you have a spacey ambient loop happening and everyone is falling asleep - Time to dance! Press multiply, and start playing a samba rhythm. - The echoplex keeps the old ambient thing, while the new rhythm is overdubbed. Since you are multiplying, you can keep playing as long as you like or until you run out of memory. - When you reach the end of your new rhythmic figure, do not press Multiply like you normally would. Instead, end the Multiply by pressing Record. The loop length will be redefined with that point being the end. So your new samba will loop in time, at whatever tempo feels right, with the old ambience underneath. The only weird thing will be that the old ambient loop will have a discontinuity where you redefined the length. Since this occurs right at the downbeat, it will probably be ok. Another idea is to approach recording ambient parts in a different way. By using a Record-Insert combination, you can give the echoplex a short cycle length with a much longer loop. The multiple display will count away, giving you a much better tempo indication. Here's how to do that: - Set the InsertMode parameter to INS. - Press Record and start playing cluster chords with an infinite- reverb-pitch-shifted-down-two-octaves-totally-wet effects patch. - After one beat or one bar or whatever amount of time you want to see as your tempo, press Insert. - Keep on playing those cluster chords. Maybe throw in some whammy. - The echoplex's multiple display will be counting up at the tempo you defined. Everything you are playing will continue being recorded just as if it's a normal loop. - When you are done, press Insert again to start the loop repeating. - The Multiple display will now be counting, giving you a visible indication of tempo while your unrhythmic ambient loop is playing away! Hope these ideas help.... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Mar 09 00:24:08 1997 >From kflint Sat Mar 8 21:50:51 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w3bVS-0001sz-00; Sat, 8 Mar 1997 21:50:50 -0800 Message-ID: <33226B29.2544@interaccess.com> Date: Sat, 08 Mar 1997 23:47:53 -0800 From: Jim Coker X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: more on Kyma..... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zgB7KB.A.MnB.q8kIz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2257 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 21:50:50 -0800 X-UIDL: d377e0ec1ac84663d559466d3391c6d9 Matthias Grob wrote: > > Jim answered me: > >In reference to Matthias' questions, most parameters on sound > >objects (such as delay times, frequency settings, filter bandwidth > >and frequency) are controllable in real time, and without glitches. > >Put an lfo on a short delay, and you get a flanger. (Delay lengths can > >be specified in a number of ways, such as in seconds, or samples, > >or relative to something else) Control signals can come from midi, > >or all sorts of other things, frequency trackers, envelope followers, > >other audio signals, or signals built by processing other signals. > >When I was there, a Peavey PC1600 fader box (16 programmable > >midi faders and assorted buttons) was set up to > >control sound parameters. This is what I used during the looping > >test (no foot controller available). > > I see... but this I can do on my PCM80, as long as its just controlling > parameters of a delay. > I was thinking about the loop specific functions like Tap, Multiply, Undo, > or rather sampler type functions like restarting the actual loop or > changing to another loop and so on. Probably those functions will have to > be created and I wondered how difficult this might be. Well, there's no tap tempo control that comes with the unit (I asked), but I don't think it would be difficult to build one. As far as the echoplex-type functions go, it depends on your goal. If you want to duplicate the interface of an echoplex, you can probably do it, but I can't say how difficult it would be, and I don't think it would be the best way to approach loop programming with Kyma. Since you can have a large number of loops and samplers running at once, and there are numerous controls available on them, some of the metaphors that apply with the echoplex don't make much sense. For example, multiply on the echoplex affects the original loop, whereas on Kyma, I would be more likely to achive a similar result by adding a new, concurrent loop whose time is a multiple of the first. This would leave the original loop available for individual processing. Of course, everyone has their own preference about how such features should be configured, but a big part of Kyma is that the user has many options on how to organize things. > > >Another nice patch involved a "harmonic resonator", a special > >kind of filter that resonates at a given pitch and all it's > >harmonics. > > also available on PCM70/80 > > >Probably the most unique capabilities of the system revolve around > >it's analysis and resynthesis capabilities. Their latest software > >version comes w/ a configureable vocoder w/ up to 70 filter bands. > >In addition to real time vocoding, you can analyize a sample > >(drums, vocals and animal sounds work best, due to their widely > >varying formants) to build a time-varying filter bank, and then use > >this filter bank to process a live signal. > ... > > >For really hard-core stuff, you can use an FFT analysis to convert > >the signal from the time domain into the freqency domain, and do > >processing there (such as stretching or scaling harmonics, pitch > >and time shifting, etc), and then resynthesize the result using > >an oscillator bank. This is the approach used by Digital Performer > >1.7 and others to do pitch shifting w/o ugly artifacts. Kyma > >can do this in real time, minus a 1/4sec delay due to FFT > >windowing issues > > Interesting. This could certainly be used to colour and modulate loops. And > in this case, the 250ms delay (thats a lot!) could be hidden somehow. The delay is intrinsic to all FFT algorithms. The processing occurs by taking short samples (called windows) of the input, and doing the FFT on each window. Longer windows give more accurate frequency results, shorter ones give a better indication of when events occur in the signal. The windowing is what causes the delay. I do think it is adjustable, so shorter delays can be traded for some accuracy. (caveat: That's a very short and imprecise description of a complex signal processing task) > >The only dissapointment I had was with the frequency tracker. > >It works amazingly well w/ vocals, but didn't do so great on > >a guitar. The response time was at least as good as a Roland > >GI-10 midi converter and it did track vibrato and > ... > > One big change that would make > >it better would be to use hexaphonic input a-la GK2, which would > >restrict the pitch guessing range, and avoid multi-string noises. > > Did you play monophonic for this test, or is it even able to detect chords > of a monophonic guitar?!? The tracker can't handle chords, that is truly a difficult task. It is discussed in the Curtis Roads book I mentioned earlier (as is the FFT stuff). > > >Currently Kyma only has 2 inputs and 2 outputs, but they are working > >on increasing this. They get many requests to increase the > >number of outputs, but Kurt said that this was the first time they > >had a solid reason for having multiple inputs, ... > > Ahh... we will end up making our own VGx, more serious, with all in it! > > >Kyma can run simutaneously w/ a > >sequencer or MAX on a modest MAC or PC. Symbolic Sound is also > >working on a PC-card interface so you can use Kyma w/ a laptop. > > Does it also work without any computer, on stage? Nope, the computer is the controller, where all patches are stored and other important things happen. It also, obviously, lowers the price of the Capybara, which has no front panel controls. There is a midi-map function so you can use program changes to load new sounds. The "stuck-to-a-computer" issue is one the Sym. Sound is aware of. They had said that at AES some engineers from Eventide had asked if they'd had people complain about requiring the computer. They are working on a PC card for laptops, so that makes it a bit less of a problem. The way I see it is that they leverage so many capabilities from the computer that the restriction is well-justified. > Did you check the reverb sounds? If the KYMA replaces two Plexes and my two > Lexicons, its not that expensive any more! I don't know of any serious reverb programs that come with the unit, but it has Delays, Comb Filters and such that can be used to build reverbs. There are some general reverb algorithms covered in signal processing publications, but if you're looking to replace the reverb in a PCM80, its not gonna happen easily. This brings up the issue of what Kyma is all about. The fx boxes from Lexicon, Eventide and others come with great programs that are ready-to-use and are targeted for music production, but even though they have relatively flexible programming options, their limitations are rigid: They have a fixed processing & memory capacity (for both delays and programs), a limited number of processing algorithms (i.e. chorus, flange, pitch shift, reverb), and limited number of ways to combine those algorithms. Kyma is an open-ended box, it is what the user makes of it. Symbolic Sound provides a number of useful processing algorithms, software to combine them in new and interesting ways, many intriguing and instructive example programs, and ongoing software and hardware updates that avoid obsolecence. It blurs the distinction between synthesizer, effects processor, hard disk recorder, sampler and sequencer. It is a little bit of all these things, but by combining them all it becomes something different entirely. The first demonstration Carla showed me was a piece that she had created for Kyma. The complex program turned the Capybara into an instrument, in that it created synthesized sounds, an effects processor, in that it processed her voice in real time, a sampler, as it played & modified sounds from disk, a sequencer, in that sounds were layered and ordered by program events, and a real-time studio or composition tool, in that the operation of all these processes were interrelated, and she was able to control the whole process through vocal inflections and midi sliders. Kyma is a solution for those who have become frustrated with the limitations of the equipment they are working with, and want to create an instrument of their own. It will not likely replace a Lexicon reverb unit in anyone's rack, but reveberant sounds built using it can be new and unique. It may not harmonize as effortlessly as an Eventide, but it has numerous tools for modifying pitch. It is a toolset for creating music, and thus the user has both the exciting and somewhat daunting task of making something out of it. jim From ???@??? Sun Mar 09 00:24:11 1997 >From kflint Sat Mar 8 21:51:27 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w3bW1-0001w1-00; Sat, 8 Mar 1997 21:51:25 -0800 Message-ID: <33226B87.26A7@interaccess.com> Date: Sat, 08 Mar 1997 23:49:27 -0800 From: Jim Coker X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: more on Kyma..... References: <199703082223.OAA04668@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Vxs44D.A.BtB.F-kIz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2258 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 21:51:25 -0800 X-UIDL: a13b869d0a4f80f39ffea272f0f36b42 Paolo Valladolid wrote: > > The possiblity of being able to drive a Kyma/Capybara system directly > from a guitar without MIDI sounds pretty exciting. It has 2 audio ins and 2 outs, plus midi in & out. > > I wonder if there is a way to save performance configurations so that > the Capybara can be operated standalone (without a host computer); > controlled only by a guitar and a footpedal. Nope, see the longer post. jim From ???@??? Sun Mar 09 12:24:07 1997 >From kflint Sun Mar 9 12:01:19 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w3omT-0002aK-00; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 12:01:17 -0800 Message-ID: <33233274.4F4E@interaccess.com> Date: Sun, 09 Mar 1997 13:58:12 -0800 From: Jim Coker X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Re: more on Kyma..... References: <33226B29.2544@interaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"mqgkIB.A.qTC.JaxIz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2259 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 12:01:17 -0800 X-UIDL: b402e1e55416f77f7779c3ee0f7c50f5 Sorry if you have line wrap problems on that posting, or if it gets a little fanatic at the end, I was answering late last night. Kyma is a very neat system, it blew my mind and I haven't recovered yet. jim From ???@??? Mon Mar 10 02:34:36 1997 >From kflint Sun Mar 9 17:54:26 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w3uIE-00037S-00; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 17:54:26 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: meifoo.hk.super.net: Umanager set sender to manager.com!jim using -f From: jim@manager.com (Jim Morgan) Reply-To: jim@manager.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Living on a rock Date: 10 Mar 1997 01:14:09 GMT Message-Id: <4262653950.106891439@manager.com> Organization: Manager International Co. Ltd. Resent-Message-ID: <"xoYIcB.A.yuC.Fk2Iz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2260 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 17:54:26 -0800 X-UIDL: 92aef3ffa1e05f2eb0c8f22df8a15e1b I'm not a loopster yet, but it's something I've been trying to get into for the last year or two. My problem is that I live in Hong Kong, and can't find anywhere that sells the Echoplex, which, I gather from various discussions around, is the mutt's nuts. So.... how can I get hold of an Echoplex plus pedal in this hi-tech hick town? Does anyone have a contact for the manufacturer so that I could find out if they have any dealers out here? Is anyone coming to Hong Kong with a spare few kilos of baggage allowance in the near future? Do I really need an Echoplex or is there something better by, say, Yamaha, who seem to have HK sewn up? Any answers to these questions would be appreciated. Meanwhile I'll continue to lurk and vicariously enjoy the idea of looping. Jim Morgan. Monday morning. Hong Kong. From ???@??? Mon Mar 10 22:54:41 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 10 17:39:50 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w4GXb-0007li-00; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 17:39:47 -0800 Message-ID: <33247147.2885@nyfac.com> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 20:38:58 +0000 From: nyfac Reply-To: nyfac@nyfac.com Organization: nyfac X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Found a vortex for sale References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rkV2qC.A.FyG._ZLJz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2264 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 17:39:47 -0800 X-UIDL: 73b7c35565ed6546c76c538b63afbc98 Saw this in usenet and I knew that some of you folks would be interested... Subject: FS: Lexicon Vortex Date: 7 Mar 1997 14:32:35 -0500 From: andrewc@interport.net (Andrew C) Organization: Interport Communications Corp. Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.marketplace, alt.guitar, rec.music.makers.guitar Lexicon Vortex. Mint condition. hardly used. $150 firm. Please email me if you are interested. Thanks, Andrew Some one here is going to owe me a Guiness... From ???@??? Mon Mar 10 22:54:05 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 10 12:50:59 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w4C22-0006rh-00; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 12:50:54 -0800 Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 15:43:05 -0500 (EST) From: MiqSk8@aol.com Message-ID: <970310154303_-1171179366@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: cu-eu to ship Resent-Message-ID: <"of349.A.s3F.eKHJz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2261 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 12:50:54 -0800 X-UIDL: 65110c98f30a640a584979020200153e i know it's not official, but in talking with obie today about getting a manual, dean fouts said that the updrade would be happening at the the end of this month! pricing was vague-i just bought mine and so he said it would be free, but again-NOT OFFICIAL! let's all hope and wait for an official word. From ???@??? Mon Mar 10 22:54:11 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 10 13:38:40 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w4CmC-00031w-00; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 13:38:36 -0800 Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 13:20:25 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: cu-eu to ship In-Reply-To: <970310154303_-1171179366@emout05.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"cmnh3C.A.pmC.t6HJz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2263 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 13:38:36 -0800 X-UIDL: 3ee07913262f12daf971f1b501b762fe On Mon, 10 Mar 1997 MiqSk8@aol.com wrote: > i know it's not official, but in talking with obie today about getting a > manual, dean fouts said that the updrade would be happening at the the end of > this month! pricing was vague-i just bought mine and so he said it would be > free, but again-NOT OFFICIAL! let's all hope and wait for an official word. Hot damn! This just made my week... --Andre From ???@??? Mon Mar 10 22:54:09 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 10 13:38:08 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w4Cla-0002yD-00; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 13:37:58 -0800 Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 15:29:28 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199703102129.PAA04697@mail1.texas.net> X-Sender: sharkey@texas.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: sharkey@texas.net (james rhodes) Subject: just to say hello Resent-Message-ID: <"62tbgC.A.HFC.-0HJz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2262 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 13:37:58 -0800 X-UIDL: e358a1223628efd1c7814cb654063978 hello folks, pretty new to the list here,just thought i might introduce myself. my name is james rhodes, and im in San Antonio, TX. im kinda new to this looping thing ,,,sort of ,,i played for approx 2 years with one of the original crafty guitarists, John Miley. he did alot of looping pieces,,and i added textures and parts with my Chapmen Stick. i think he used a Ibanez DM-1100 for his looping. so i guess im not totally new to it. i played with Vic Chesnutt(in Mr. Greenjeans) around the same time,,but there was no looping involved. i have been a Steve Reich fan for around 10-12 years,,but only recently have i personally used looping in my composition/performance. i purchased a Jamman a few weeks ago, and my Echoplex just arrived today..it set me back $529.00 and i still need to order a footpedal...is approx $119.00 the going rate? the manuel looks pretty overwhelming, but i really havent had the time to read it cover to cover...i expect that i will learn alot of tips monitering this list. well anyway i have noticed some fellow Stickists on this list so it must be pretty informative,,,so hi to all out there and if you are ever in the San Antonio area let me know,,,we always have a cool one in the fridge , for the traveling musician... later loopers james rhodes sharkey@texas.net > > > From ???@??? Tue Mar 11 22:13:35 1997 >From kflint Tue Mar 11 11:15:44 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w4X1O-0004zz-00; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 11:15:38 -0800 Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 12:04:16 -0700 (MST) From: Dan Howarth To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: RAM chip place Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"c8rNmB.A.nCE.i2aJz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2265 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 11:15:38 -0800 X-UIDL: b4d3d89f2669db06f1b861d5dbba7347 hi all, i ran across a web vendor for simm chips: http://www.teleport.com/~dany/ seem to be fairly decent prices. **************************************************************** ** Dan Howarth, History/Music, University of Arizona, Tucson ** ** http://www.u.arizona.edu/~howarth (under construction) ** **************************************************************** From ???@??? Fri Mar 14 03:01:17 1997 >From kflint Fri Mar 14 02:40:47 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w5UPn-0000bz-00; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 02:40:47 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 02:34:03 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: wake up! Resent-Message-ID: <"2hNGVB.A.Va.hpSKz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2266 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 02:40:47 -0800 X-UIDL: 09a7b114bdb806d3c614ec0c08242477 Hey, all you loopers have been deathly silent the past few of days! I hope it's because you're all off looping some great music rather than working yourselves into the ground like I am. Some folks are apparently going into withdrawals without their daily looper's delight fix, so lets get some interesting converstations sparked up! Maybe we can start a Fripp flame war again or something? That sure was entertaining, at least to me.... I don't have a whole lot to say myself, inasmuch as I've been buried in three major projects all hitting big milestones this month. For all you folks who have written me lately with various questions or comments, I apologize for the total lack of response on my part. I'll get to it, I promise! Let's see, one of the owners of Boomerang has recently joined the list, so I'd like to extend a welcome to Mike Nelson. He's lurked so far, but I've now officially outed him so y'all may freely deluge the list with Boomerang questions. They even have a web page up, which I've promised to appropriately link from the Looper's Delight page when I find some time. The URL is: http://www.netbutler.com/boomerang. An echoplex user and recording artist from Uganda recently contacted me for some plex help. He claims to be the only Echoplex user in Africa, which may be true, as sad as that is. We'll call it a promising beginning. I'll get him to join the list as soon as I can, so we can all hear how he loops his Kalimbas and African flutes. He sounds really interesting to me, I'm looking forward to talking with him some more. Oh yeah, if any of you think you might make a good echoplex beta tester, I might be interested in hearing from you.... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Fri Mar 14 09:20:42 1997 >From kflint Fri Mar 14 07:43:02 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w5Z8H-0004s5-00; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 07:43:01 -0800 From: Floyd Miller Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 10:43:50 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199703141543.KAA08985@omni1.voicenet.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: wake up Resent-Message-ID: <"AZ6YJ.A.6TE.NEXKz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2267 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 07:43:01 -0800 X-UIDL: 44c0c1000821961e32fd0bf5146ea54b Yawwwwwn... Strettttttttch.... Good morning loopers :) I'd just like to say I'm finnaly beginning to feel comfortable with the footpedal. It really takes some practice to get the feel of the buttons under foot. I was thinking of replacing the switches with something that has a little better tactile response. But it is so hard to find sources other than catalogs - and you can't feel a swtich in a catalog. Has anyone tried alternate switches in the pedal? Any suggestions? - Floyd Miller P.S. Looking forward to the looper's show here in Philly. I hope my schedule will settle down and I can make it. P.P.S. - any news on the new PAL, Kim? From ???@??? Fri Mar 14 09:20:51 1997 >From kflint Fri Mar 14 08:37:30 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w5Zyz-0000rp-00; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 08:37:29 -0800 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 11:31:44 -0500 (EST) From: MiqSk8@aol.com Message-ID: <970314113134_-1237815858@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: wake up! Resent-Message-ID: <"1BvvAD.A.ld.z2XKz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2268 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 08:37:29 -0800 X-UIDL: f0c34b58837e26fd221d4c7383c0dfd8 i've noticed a lot of silence on several lists this week... well i finally got my manual, but have had zero time to implement. did manage to find 4megs of memory out in the garage to up my plex to 50 sec, it's gonna be fun. i have to agree about the pedal- so far the best luck i've had recording has been to hold it down the entire time and then up to end. in stocking feet sitting down! kinda surprised by this-is this sensitivity level common? another random thing flew by me as well-kim, matthias, was there a reason for either a 16mb limit on 30 pin simms or not using 72 pin simms? silly minds want to know. i also talked again with dean fouts about an official stance on the pending cu-eu and he said he forwarded it to his boss. i'm(we're) hoping this isn't going to become dilbertesque. From ???@??? Sat Mar 15 11:31:06 1997 >From kflint Fri Mar 14 11:35:50 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w5clH-00079e-00; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 11:35:31 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ccnet3.ccnet.com: dmic27 owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 11:00:52 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Michael X-Sender: dmic27@ccnet3 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Bay Area Gig In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"XaXIfD.A.7FG.2aaKz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2269 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 11:35:31 -0800 X-UIDL: 80ec6c9298d0723bd2ae1e4e89777aab Hello, Just a quick announcement, if anyone is in the Bay Area my group "Hinge" is gigging this Saturday the 15th. We do rock/jazz ambient instrumental music complete with looping textures. I'm using an electro harmonix 16 second delay for the loops. The club is called Lindee's Bar & Grill located in Concord, California. The address is 2765 Clayton Road and we are probably hitting the stage at around 10:30-11pm. Hope to see you there, Doug Michael From ???@??? Sat Mar 15 11:31:13 1997 >From kflint Fri Mar 14 13:11:22 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w5eFz-0006jC-00; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 13:11:19 -0800 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 13:06:21 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: lowfrqcy@west.net (Ryan Blum) Subject: Re: wake up! Resent-Message-ID: <"vCOtJD.A.M8F.Y3bKz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2270 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 13:11:19 -0800 X-UIDL: ff091859d1947c53cb558354c34d0ebc >Hey, all you loopers have been deathly silent the past few of days! I hope >it's because you're all off looping some great music rather than working well, how about some vortex patch sharing...here's a nice little variation on Fractal B that really only changes depth1....everything's the same, but I put the modFXlevel and mix all the way up at 64, and depth 1 at 64. also i changed Feedback2 (the cross-feed mix) up to about 40. I controlled what did/didn't go to loop with the envelope. Just a few changes, but my telecaster sounded like the noises that huge spiders made in cheezy science fiction movies. Also, i never properly introduced myself to the list...I'm a high school student in Santa barbara, ca. Lately, my true voice has been coming through my upright bass, which i've studied for about 6 years now. i absolutely love everying about it (except for the damn blisters which i STILL get). I do have to use my JamMan, Vortex, and other instruments (chapman stick being a favorite) from keeping my self from going insane (or from going sane) with what I'm continually forced to do as far as music goes. Like I tell everyone, I don't just want to try to play standards better than the next guy for the rest of my life. I admire what the Charles Mingus' and Ornette Coleman's of the world have done with music. Right now i'm hoping to be able to go to CalArts in a few years (Mr. Haden!), and then make millions of dollars while still preserving my art. yeah, that's the ticket. Anyway, that's about it, as far as influences, I'd have to mention bill frisell, charlie haden (just got the liberation music orchestra disc, finally), john medeski, beck, trent reznor, crimson, john s. hall, buckethead, mr. torn, bill laswell, dj shadow, david lynch (Lost Highway was great no matter what the critics say), sun ra, ralph wiggum, etc. Thank you for your time. =) BTW, are there any turntable folk on this list? Anyone know of a nice group of vinyl folk? Ryan ---- Ryan Blum "...to play 'Giant Steps' because you can seems lowfrqcy@west.net ridiculous to me. I went through that, but I was 14 years old." - John Medeski From ???@??? Sat Mar 15 11:31:15 1997 >From kflint Fri Mar 14 14:13:10 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w5fDi-0003dC-00; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 14:13:02 -0800 Message-Id: <199703142205.PAA21726@primenet.com> From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: My Self-Introduction to This Group Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 14:01:23 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Dweu5.A.J4C.AvcKz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2271 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 14:13:02 -0800 X-UIDL: 197da198b1bf17932384540025245c07 Greetings! I've been watching these messages fill my inbox now for a number of weeks, and thought I'd introduce myself. My name's Stephen Goodman, I'm in the LA area, contracting in software/hardware/networks/etc, during the day, composing (or compositing) ambient loops during the evening. Presently I'm working on a variety of material, all of it for final release (whether self-published or otherwise) sometime in the next 1.5 years: "Book Of Days", a CD-ROM for PCs (rel. date 7-8/97) "Songs From A Tunnel", an audio CD (rel. date 7-8/97) "Solitaire", an audio CD (rel.date 7/98) "Velvet Smog" (working title), an audio CD of covers (rel. date sometime in 98) ...as well as various web projects, designs, and writings, most of which may be found described on my EarthLight Studios web page at: http://www.primenet.com/~sgoodman/Studios Two complete pieces may be found at the above site, "4 The World", a piece produced for Christmas 1996, and "Examen du Lapin", both RealAudio (but not streaming on my server yet), as well as the Loop Of The Week, an ambient guitar loop for your PC (Self-executing for Windows users, ZIPped .WAV for all else, 44.1khz 16-bit stereo). At this time I am preparing to perform publicly sometime in July-August, at a variety of sites, from Ice Cream Parlours to Shopping Malls, to coincide with the releases of Songs From A Tunnel and Book Of Days, but especially to just Perform. I'm sure it's not just me that's noticed that some folks just love to watch you 'put it together'. :) For my equipment I use an 89 Strat/Floyd Rose Tremolo, Oscar Schmidt acoustic 6-string, E-bow, Digitech 7.6-second 'Time Machine', QuadraVerb+, and a variety of recording equipment including my hard drive and Cool Edit. Good luck to everyone here! In the event that I travel I'd love to look some of you up to perhaps jam, if not also publicly. :) * Stephen Goodman It's the Loop Of The Week! And it's free! * EarthLight Productions http://www.primenet.com/~sgoodman/Studios From ???@??? Sat Mar 15 11:31:17 1997 >From kflint Fri Mar 14 14:41:34 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w5ffE-00061s-00; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 14:41:28 -0800 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 17:35:25 -0500 (EST) From: PMimlitsch@aol.com Message-ID: <970314173524_280145431@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: wake up! Resent-Message-ID: <"dt0lsB.A.NTF.uLdKz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2272 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 14:41:28 -0800 X-UIDL: 3cd9b0bd5076134e4702efe643dc2818 In a message dated 3/14/97 5:38:57 AM, you wrote: <> Kim; Being, at present, a Jman user (but looking to get an echoplex soon) might I be eligable?--Paul From ???@??? Sat Mar 15 11:31:18 1997 >From kflint Fri Mar 14 14:56:41 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w5ftv-0007M4-00; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 14:56:39 -0800 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 17:48:11 -0500 (EST) From: KelRey@aol.com Message-ID: <970314174809_-1639055292@emout16.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: wake up! Resent-Message-ID: <"w47D4D.A.FUG.wXdKz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2273 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 14:56:39 -0800 X-UIDL: ac65d8465ad2e2241154d056f7b0c145 Hi, Nice to see there are other Jamman users> I got mine before I really new about the Plex, Now hoping to get one. Anyone here have both and how do they work together. Thanks, Kelly From ???@??? Sat Mar 15 11:31:28 1997 >From kflint Fri Mar 14 17:05:53 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w5huv-0001el-00; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 17:05:49 -0800 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <970314174809_-1639055292@emout16.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 17:00:57 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: wake up! Resent-Message-ID: <"OVIBZB.A.ZJB.TSfKz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2276 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 17:05:49 -0800 X-UIDL: af21b276cefee8f4f8b711eb5ab9ae07 >Hi, > >Nice to see there are other Jamman users> I got mine before I really new >about the Plex, Now hoping to get one. Anyone here have both and how do they >work together. > >Thanks, > >Kelly Yeah, I am currently using 2 Echoplex DP's, 2 Jam Mans, and 2 vortexes, all running off the 6 effects sends of my mixer. I use the Jam Mans primarily as delays, usually with a feedback of one. This allows me to delay either my direct sound or the loops, and also allows me to separate the delays in the stereo field. For instance I might get a loop going in EDP #1, and pan the loop to the left. THen , I'll send that loop to the Jam Man delay (set to a 100% Wet mix) and pan that to the right. I might do the same with EDP #2, and pan them opposite (ie. loop --> right, delayed loop --> left). Then, just in case I haven't already created a muddy mess, I can run either the direct signal, the loop, or the delayed loop into the vortexes, which have their own stereo field....This allows me to create nice spatial effects. I ought to mention: I find it challenging NOT to create a muddy mess, using this setup. I find that using crisper, thinner sounds and simple, sparse inital loops, gives me the best results in the end. Also, this is probably an under-usage of the JamMan's potenital, but the EDP's handle my looping needs, and where else can you get "tapable" delay with 30 (or even 8) seconds delay time? Getting back into looping, Chris From ???@??? Sat Mar 15 11:31:25 1997 >From kflint Fri Mar 14 16:25:36 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w5hHf-0006Kg-00; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 16:25:15 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970314191648.0069417c@popmail.voicenet.com> X-Sender: floyd@popmail.voicenet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 19:16:58 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Floyd Miller Subject: Re: My Self-Introduction to This Group Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"t4sgz.A.3NF.dpeKz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2274 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 16:25:15 -0800 X-UIDL: fbee6682a93c5fdbf966e80b3df27d70 At 02:01 PM 3/14/97 -0800, you wrote: >Greetings! Hi there.. I will check out your loops. Question: Do you find it worth the effor to zip WAV files? Mine never seem to compress much at all. **************** ********** Floyd Miller ****** floyd@voicenet.com ** http://www.voicenet.com/~floyd From ???@??? Sat Mar 15 11:31:26 1997 >From kflint Fri Mar 14 16:30:20 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w5hMU-0006j9-00; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 16:30:14 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 16:50:23 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: wake up! Resent-Message-ID: <"7kC7ED.A.30F.XweKz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2275 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 16:30:14 -0800 X-UIDL: 644997907c7e31574e0dd217d6e4682b >Hi, > >Nice to see there are other Jamman users> I got mine before I really new >about the Plex, Now hoping to get one. Anyone here have both and how do they >work together. > >Thanks, > >Kelly As a long-time JamMan user who has borrowed an Echoplex Pro for the last 3 months (supposed to go home tomorrow, sob), here's my german car analogy: The JamMan is a VW bug, simple, easy to work with, cheap, doesn't do a lot, but does what it does well and predictably, while the Echoplex is a Mercedes, very elegant design and interface, expensive, but worth it, and you really have to know how to drive it to get the benefits. OK, end of pointless automotive analogies... I saw an ad in EQ for a Symmetrix delay box that is supposedly meant to be an update of the PCM 42 and Time Bandit. Sounds quite cool (has knobs on the front panel and !Resonant Filters! yeah!), but nowhere in the ad does it mention anything about total delay time, or if it's expandable. Anyone know anything about this? Or what it will cost? Also, a friend is looking for a JamMan, and can't find any from any of the local dealers or mail order places. Does anyone out there know where you can actually buy one? Or has their era truly passed, alas... ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Sat Mar 15 11:31:29 1997 >From kflint Fri Mar 14 17:53:39 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w5ifB-00051K-00; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 17:53:37 -0800 Message-Id: <199703150144.RAA05162@dsp.net> From: "James Reynolds" To: Subject: Re: wake up! Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 17:43:37 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1160 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3UA3dC.A.8PE.49fKz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2277 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 17:53:37 -0800 X-UIDL: ec056f70be9f58f69deff4c3e80dd9c9 > Nice to see there are other Jamman users> I got mine before I really new > about the Plex, Now hoping to get one. Anyone here have both and how do they > work together. > > Thanks, > > Kelly i was in the same situation as you - got my jamman before i ever knew there was such a thing as an echoplex. actually, i'm glad i have both now. all dedicated looping devices (that i know of) have one fundamental limitation, at least for the way i want to make loop-based music: they can only play one loop at a time. sure, you can layer and all that fun stuff, but if you want to have one continuous background loop and fade new loops in and out, you're out of luck. i make most of my noises with a bass, so i lay my bass groove down into the jamman, then stomp my A/B into the plex for the weird textural stuff (harmonics, feedback into wah, volume pedal, vortex). another advantage of having two loopers: you can route their outputs separately. the jamman goes into my bass amp, and the vortex/echoplex go into the PA (the vortex goes thru the mixer to the PA stereo, and an effects send feeds the vortex into the plex, which returns mono) all this fun stuff is MIDI-synced to the jamman of my mentally unbalanced guitarist, some colored floodlights and pulsating christmas lights (which we wear - "suits of light"), and some dark lazy tweaked out funk beats. theremin and radio noises round the sound out. pretty standard stuff. :) ok, got a bit off topic, but what self-respecting electronic musician can resist an opportunity to yammer about his setup? :) james From ???@??? Sat Mar 15 11:31:34 1997 >From kflint Sat Mar 15 00:37:43 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w5oyE-0001eU-00; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 00:37:42 -0800 Message-ID: <332A60FE.28FE@crystalball.com> Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 02:42:38 -0600 From: "Mikell D. Nelson" Reply-To: mnelson@crystalball.com Organization: Boomerang Musical Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: wake up! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Vxn9m.A.ycB.N9lKz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2278 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 00:37:42 -0800 X-UIDL: 3eb72a59820d05ae5b402bb7b88f54d8 Dave Trenkel wrote: > Also, a friend is looking for a JamMan, and can't find any from any of the > local dealers or mail order places. Does anyone out there know where you > can actually buy one? Or has their era truly passed, alas... Why not have your friend check out a Boomerang Phrase Sampler. The sampling rate is lower than a Jamman, but it sounds great with guitar, bass, and vocals. The feature set is larger than the Jamman, it's easier to use and records a lot longer. I think it's the most bang for the buck in the world of looping, but then I would because I co-own the company that makes them. Check our web page at http://www.netbutler.com/boomerang -- == Motley == -- From ???@??? Sat Mar 15 11:31:36 1997 >From kflint Sat Mar 15 00:52:50 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w5pCq-0002AK-00; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 00:52:48 -0800 Message-ID: <332A64B1.7B63@crystalball.com> Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 02:58:25 -0600 From: "Mikell D. Nelson" Reply-To: mnelson@crystalball.com Organization: Boomerang Musical Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: wake up! References: <199703150144.RAA05162@dsp.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"IewzzB.A.M9B.DMmKz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2279 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 00:52:48 -0800 X-UIDL: b2dc141302a176a8f7fcf74c915bbaa0 James Reynolds wrote: > all this fun stuff is MIDI-synced to the jamman of my mentally unbalanced > guitarist, some colored floodlights and pulsating christmas lights (which > we wear - "suits of light"), and some dark lazy tweaked out funk beats. > theremin and radio noises round the sound out. pretty standard stuff. :) Radio noise and a theremin... pretty standard stuff? I must be a conservative looper. My band uses a Boomerang to fatten our sound and add parts since we consist of only guitar bass and percussion. I only occasionally bring mine out to a gig, but our sound is wed to our bass player's layered approach to creating a groove. Sometimes I think he uses it to take a breather. I'll be soloing over his foundation and look around to hand it back to him (he's the lead singer) and he's sipping on a Bud watching the female scenery! Isn't technology wonderful. I'd like to make a formal request for a picture of your human light show. Your band sounds really interesting. No really, I'm serious. -- == Motley == -- From ???@??? Sun Mar 16 22:21:34 1997 >From kflint Sun Mar 16 20:53:55 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w6UQj-0001lj-00; Sun, 16 Mar 1997 20:53:53 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 20:45:55 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Living on a rock Resent-Message-ID: <"lOpbKB.A.dZB.K1MLz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2280 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 20:53:53 -0800 X-UIDL: e33be1b9ceec4c9f6019e73dbd3951b0 At 5:14 PM 3/9/97, Jim Morgan wrote: >I'm not a loopster yet, but it's something I've been trying to get into for >the last year or two. My problem is that I live in Hong Kong, and can't find >anywhere that sells the Echoplex, which, I gather from various discussions >around, is the mutt's nuts. > >So.... how can I get hold of an Echoplex plus pedal in this hi-tech hick >town? Does anyone have a contact for the manufacturer so that I could find >out if they have any dealers out here? Is anyone coming to Hong Kong with a >spare few kilos of baggage allowance in the near future? Do I really need an >Echoplex or is there something better by, say, Yamaha, who seem to have HK >sewn up? I'm pretty sure that Yamaha doesn't make anything with useful looping ability! And as far as I know, I won't be heading to Hong Kong soon. I do know Oberheim's address and phone# though: Oberheim Synthesizers 732 Kevin Court Oakland, CA 94633 USA 510-635-9633 I'm doubt that there are any Oberheim/echoplex dealers in Hong Kong, but you could ask them. Or you can try a US dealer, they might ship overseas. Banana's at Large is usually pretty good: Bananas at Large 1504 Fourth Street San Rafael, CA 94901 USA Phone (415)457-7600 Fax (415)457-9148 bananas@bananas.com www.bananas.com At the moment, Oberheim is finishing up the first production run they have done in a while, so everyone seems to be out of stock. Echoplecis should be easier to get in a month or so. >Any answers to these questions would be appreciated. Meanwhile I'll continue >to lurk and vicariously enjoy the idea of looping. > >Jim Morgan. >Monday morning. >Hong Kong. ^^^^^^^^^ sorry about that change of government thing.....If you score an echoplex, you may soon be the only looper I know in China, huh? Actually, that makes me wonder. I don't know much about Chinese music traditions. Does anyone know if there are any looping parallels there, in the way there are with other musics about the world? kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Mar 16 22:21:37 1997 >From kflint Sun Mar 16 21:45:31 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w6VEf-0004UF-00; Sun, 16 Mar 1997 21:45:29 -0800 Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 00:42:07 -0500 (EST) From: BobbyZZZ@aol.com Message-ID: <970317004207_415109473@emout02.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Living on a rock Resent-Message-ID: <"mnDen.A.VEE.vnNLz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2281 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 21:45:29 -0800 X-UIDL: 6ab9a0e0fc9485b7ad8abbc8fadd54a2 In a message dated 3/16/97 11:52:28 PM, you wrote: > >Actually, that makes me wonder. I don't know much about Chinese music >traditions. Does anyone know if there are any looping parallels there, in >the way there are with other musics about the world? > >kim hmmmmm, that's a good one kim. from all the enthnomusicology i absorbed during my time in school, i would say yes, in the sense that many types of asian and "oriental" musics do have a lot of repetition...and can also be very mono-chromatic and harmonically static in some ways...Bob Phelps, are you up for answering this one??? :-)_ bobby devito/lvx nova From ???@??? Sun Mar 16 22:47:51 1997 >From kflint Sun Mar 16 22:25:19 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w6VrA-0006iL-00; Sun, 16 Mar 1997 22:25:16 -0800 Message-ID: <332CE509.7C3E@crystalball.com> Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 00:30:33 -0600 From: "Mikell D. Nelson" Reply-To: mnelson@crystalball.com Organization: Boomerang Musical Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Living on a rock References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JK2w_B.A.sJG.MNOLz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2282 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 22:25:16 -0800 X-UIDL: 163480306a2834f2e1bc9cab3d1607dd Jim Morgan, Another option is the Boomerang Phrase Sampler. Call me at 214-343-1038 in the USA or check our web page at http://www.netbutler.com/boomerang . We will ship overseas. Mike Nelson, co-owner Boomerang Musical Products aka Motley From ???@??? Tue Mar 18 00:42:57 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 17 11:46:26 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w6iMQ-0000qL-00; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 11:46:22 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 10:07:28 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Mark@asisoftware.com (Mark Kata) (by way of kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint)) Subject: Vortex Alert Resent-Message-ID: <"x-CnEC.A.HI.j2ZLz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2283 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 11:46:22 -0800 X-UIDL: b3e2f5f3ef74258c308e4e6f4a3c3951 American Musical Supply has a Lexicon Vortex on sale for $189.00. It is listed on page 130 of their Spring '97 catalog. They can be contacted at: 600 Industrial Ave. Paramus, NJ 07652 1-800-458-4076 (inside U.S.) 1-320-796-2088 (outside U.S.) 1-201-262-3332 (fax) www.americanmusical.com Virginia Beach Vintage Guitars also has a Lexicon Vortex for sale for $299.00. They can be contacted at: 5045 VA Beach Blvd. Virginia Beach, VA 23462 1-757-557-6900 1-757-557-6845 (fax) e-mail: vintgtr@infi.net www.dazone.com/vintageguitars Their ad appeared in the April 1997 issue of Vintage Guitar, page 91. Mark Kata Mark@asisoftware.com From ???@??? Tue Mar 18 00:43:19 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 17 13:39:18 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w6k7d-0001rl-00; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 13:39:13 -0800 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <970317004207_415109473@emout02.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 13:33:50 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: Living on a rock Resent-Message-ID: <"0J-XF.A.FPB.BibLz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2285 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 13:39:13 -0800 X-UIDL: b4989c80c51a9839f3613ec34b4969dd Bobby wrote: >hmmmmm, that's a good one kim. from all the enthnomusicology i absorbed >during my time in school, i would say yes, in the sense that many types of >asian and "oriental" musics do have a lot of repetition...and can also be >very mono-chromatic and harmonically static in some ways...Bob Phelps, are >you up for answering this one??? :-)_ >bobby devito/lvx nova Yes, there seems to be much repetition in music from Asia....but (from what little I know about it) it seems to me that the performance of the repetition is very important, perhaps as a meditation. For example, I can't quite imagine traditional gamelan performers playing their patterns into looping devices, then sitting back and drinking tea. Perhaps this is also what is preventing African musicians from embracing these devices. I mean, African polyrthythms are very repetitive, but I can't picture a drum/dance ritual to the beat of a looping device.....but then again, you never know how things will turn out.... From ???@??? Tue Mar 18 00:43:01 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 17 12:24:55 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w6ixc-0003jw-00; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 12:24:48 -0800 From: Kevin Simonson Message-Id: <199703172023.AA211870198@eagle.uis.edu> Subject: Jamman Alert ! To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 14:23:17 -0700 (CST) In-Reply-To: from "by way of kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint)" at Mar 17, 97 10:07:28 am Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"SEFUVB.A.zID.VdaLz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2284 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 12:24:48 -0800 X-UIDL: f907a4dfcd8cdd3610309d774e9d0ae2 Greetings... www.recycler.com -- classified service do a search in 'musical accessories' for "lexicon" someone is selling a Jamman for $188.00! Later... -- Kevin Simonson * AS/400 Application Development Team University of Illinois-Springfield * Programmer / Analyst Computer Science, et al. * Norwest Mortgage, Inc. simonson@eagle.uis.edu * Springfield, IL From ???@??? Tue Mar 18 00:43:41 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 17 15:40:38 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w6m15-00048W-00; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 15:40:35 -0800 Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 18:32:12 -0500 (EST) From: BobbyZZZ@aol.com Message-ID: <970317181445_1351308012@emout13.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Living on a rock Resent-Message-ID: <"B8xpGD.A.wTD.HTdLz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2286 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 15:40:35 -0800 X-UIDL: eedb326b78d1a4e6ad26e78b6bb47bea In a message dated 3/17/97 4:42:03 PM, you wrote: > >Yes, there seems to be much repetition in music from Asia....but (from what >little I know about it) it seems to me that the performance of the >repetition is very important, perhaps as a meditation. For example, I >can't quite imagine traditional gamelan performers playing their patterns >into looping devices, then sitting back and drinking tea. that's an interesting mental picture though :-)....the physical portion of playing the music for meditative purposes would seem to me to be a little less important that the music itself, unless you are thinking of something like the Sufic dancers...repetitive patterns in music can create that "meditative" state, but i much more like looping for that, especially with slowly-evolving loops. steve tibbetts has some interesting music that is influenced somewhat in this way, he's on ECM if any of you are interested in hearing his music! bobby d/lvx nova From ???@??? Tue Mar 18 00:43:43 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 17 15:48:46 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w6m8v-0004tp-00; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 15:48:41 -0800 Message-Id: <199703172342.PAA09429@dsp.net> From: "James Reynolds" To: Subject: Re: Living on a rock Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 15:41:34 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1160 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"S71r0B.A.gKE.ycdLz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2287 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 15:48:41 -0800 X-UIDL: 80e1adcfb582a6b1bbe3874e91769f08 on the topic of looping in asian musics... javanese gamelan music is fundamentally based on certain aspects of loopiness. however, the looping pattern can be up to 256 beats long as slow as 6 bpm, so until someone comes up with a digital looper with some SERIOUS ram.... but still, javanese music has some features which can be very inspirational for us loopfolk. the music is very beautiful and trancelike, the loop transforming itself gradually over time in speed and texture. quick background: a gamelan orchestra is comprised mainly of tuned brass idiophones (struck with hard and soft mallets) in varying sizes, from small xylophones to large hanging gongs. these instruments play the foundation or framework of the music. there will also usually be some combination of end-blown flute, spike fiddle, choir, and a special xylophone called "gender". these instruments play a freer melodic role. a drummer sets the tempo and directs changes in the music. the fundamental looping melody is called the "balungan" - it is usually fairly rhythmically regular (one melody note per quarter note) and is played with hard mallets on medium-sized xylophone-like instruments tuned to one of two pentatonic scales. the balungan is the melody upon which all other instruments base their parts, in what can be called "stratified polyphony". instruments higher in pitch will play in a rhythm that is a multiple of the balungan rhythm (twice as fast, etc), playing a melody weaving in and out of the notes of the balungan. instruments lower in pitch will play in a rhythm that is a division of the balungan (half as fast, etc), playing structurally important notes of the melody. the hanging gongs play a sort of bass line, and a huge gong plays only at the end of a melodic cycle. here's the really cool part. fundamental to javanese gamelan music is the concept of "irama", which describes a sort of gradual repeated doubling of the fundamental pulse, while the higher instruments adjust their parts to maintain a constant rhythmic density. after a few cycles of the balungan have been played, the drummer carefully slows the ensemble down, until it is playing at half of the previous tempo. the higher-pitched "elaborating" instruments will double their rhythmic density, playing four or eight notes per balungan note instead of two or four. these notes are formulaically tied to the balungan notes, and a sense of continuity is maintained. this process is repeated as many as four times, until a melody that lasted 15 seconds now lasts four minutes. at this irama level, the balungan is no longer recognizable as a melody, but serves more of a "punctuating" function, regularly defining important moments in the structure. the process is repeated in reverse to end the piece at the original irama level. this is all an oversimplification of a very deep, complex musical system, so i encourage people to look into it more yourselves. for anyone interested in checking gamelan music out, just a little warning: the instruments are not always tuned in a system that is compatible with the western chromatic system (in fact, each gamelan is tuned a little differently!) it may at first sound just a bit "off" to western ears, but you'll soon hear it for its beauty. a good introduction to javanese gamelan music is "gendhing bonang", an instrumental genre played by an all-brass gamelan orchestra that has a very smooth, ethereal sound. check out "music of mangkunegaran solo I", part of king records' "world music library" series. (king records, tokyo, KICC5184). james From ???@??? Tue Mar 18 00:43:50 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 17 18:29:43 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w6oek-0002PW-00; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 18:29:42 -0800 From: "Bailey, Jim" To: looppost Subject: Sorry, I must be going. Date:Mon, 17 Mar 1997 21:29:00 -0500 Message-ID: <332DFCBD@pcsmtp.cmail.southam.ca> Encoding: 16 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"jE8-5C.A.N-B.20fLz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2288 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 18:29:42 -0800 X-UIDL: d45cade3d5fc1c1f6e6a422d5cddcd90 Well folks, it's been fun while it lasted, but I'm afraid I'll have to leave for a while. This wasn't my choice, rather that the bloated windbag who recently bought this company has decided that paying too many people means less money for him, so some of us have to go. Yep, I'm one of them. This will mean, therefore, that the e-mail address in my listing will be out of date as of the end of the month. I was hoping to contact a few more of you to try arranging trades of material but fear, alas, that time is against me now. If anyone is interested, and would like to contact me here, please do so by the end of the week. Otherwise, it's snail mail. I hope to have a new position soon, and will rejoin if a new address is available, but will have to wait and see. In the meantime, happy looping to all! Jim B. From ???@??? Tue Mar 18 00:43:52 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 17 19:48:10 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w6psc-0007dA-00; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 19:48:06 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: meifoo.hk.super.net: Umanager set sender to manager.com!jim using -f From: jim@manager.com (Jim Morgan) Reply-To: jim@manager.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Re: Living on a rock Date: 18 Mar 1997 03:18:38 GMT Message-Id: <4262653950.148898955@manager.com> Organization: Manager International Co. Ltd. Resent-Message-ID: <"P-rMHB.A.N9G.--gLz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2289 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 19:48:06 -0800 X-UIDL: 476a4373ea6787fae61111acd8eefc47 Kim Flint writes: >ability! And as far as I know, I won't be heading to Hong Kong soon. I do >know Oberheim's address and phone# though: Thankyew thankyew thankyew. I'll drop them a line >I'm doubt that there are any Oberheim/echoplex dealers in Hong Kong, but >you could ask them. Or you can try a US dealer, they might ship overseas. >Banana's at Large is usually pretty good: Yes I tried them, but they only deal with USA. >sorry about that change of government thing.....If you score an echoplex, >you may soon be the only looper I know in China, huh? No need to be sorry, as far as I can work out, the only reason why Hong Kong was in British hands was the result of a dodgy drug deal about 100 years ago. 8-) >Actually, that makes me wonder. I don't know much about Chinese music >traditions. Does anyone know if there are any looping parallels there, in >the way there are with other musics about the world? Stabbing mightily in the dark here, but I'd guess that the tricky tonal variations and rhythms would make traditional Chinese music a bit hard on the ear if you loop it a lot and overlay it-- lotsa quarter tones don't sit on top of each other too well. In fact some of the Chinese opera you hear around is a bit hard on the ear before you loop it......ow. Thanks for your help anyway, it is much appreciated. Jim Morgan Editor, Asia Inc Online From ???@??? Tue Mar 18 00:43:57 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 17 21:09:15 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w6r95-0005GY-00; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 21:09:11 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: meifoo.hk.super.net: Umanager set sender to manager.com!jim using -f From: jim@manager.com (Jim Morgan) Reply-To: jim@manager.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Boomerang (back attcha) Date: 18 Mar 1997 04:40:48 GMT Message-Id: <1032060926.149222165@manager.com> Organization: Manager International Co. Ltd. Resent-Message-ID: <"d1lKvC.A.gYE.DHiLz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2290 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 21:09:11 -0800 X-UIDL: 2daf56bd7ca2ecc032a506d0e54a143f In answer to my question about getting hold of an Echoplex Pro, someone suggested I check out the Boomerang Phrase Sampler. I'll take a look at their website today. Meanwhile, does anyone have any hands-on experience of this, or any clue as to how it stacks up against the Echoplex? Jim M. From ???@??? Tue Mar 18 00:44:04 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 17 23:36:26 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w6tRZ-0006he-00; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 23:36:25 -0800 Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 23:31:08 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Boomerang (back attcha) (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"QemsG.A.EIG.9VkLz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2291 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 23:36:25 -0800 X-UIDL: 47d26deaf7a58d9a790f355cde70881f On 18 Mar 1997, Jim Morgan wrote: > Meanwhile, does anyone have any > hands-on experience of this, or any clue as to how it stacks up against the > Echoplex? I gave a Boomerang a quick spin at a Guitar Center store a couple of months back. My impression was that it's primarily designed as an off-the-cuff live tool. The main advantages to it are that it's a self-contained floor unit, with a decidedly sturdy construction and casing. Most of the main parameters have their own dedicated pedals, and you can select from three different input gain stages. It also has a self-contained roller to continuously adjust the volume level of the loop as you go, which is pretty neat (though, as I've recently discovered, you can do the same thing with an Echoplex and a standard volume pedal -- thanks to Kim for putting up that page on footpedal/switch applications in the Echoplex web section!) Finally, the Boomerang can reverse a loop on the fly (also an Echoplex feature), and can change the speed of the loop after playback, which none of the other Big Three can lay claim to. Disadvantages? You have to stop the loop if you want to alter the speed, due to the nature of the footswitch layout. There's no individual feedback control to regulate the decay time of a loop; my understanding is that feedback is automatically scaled back as new layers are overdubbed on top of old ones, which are themselves phased out. As I understand it, there's no factory-installed control over this feature, i.e. if you want to be able to overdub new layers without a preset rate of feedback decay, you need to have it modded to bypass this feature. (This is my main personal quibble with the unit.) Also, the sampling resolution isn't up to that of either of the other Big Three; its low sampling rate is pretty much optimized for electric guitar and other "lo-fi" instruments, though some would no doubt advocate its use for any and all instruments. I should also add that since I've only given the Boomerang a cursory spin in a music store, I don't claim 100% certainty on the above information; since Mike "Motley" Nelson is on the list, I'll readily defer to him if I'm in error regarding any of the above information. I've seen the Boomerang on sale for around $350 at Guitar Center, which is about $150 to $200 more than the Echoplex (which doesn't come with its own dedicated footpedal; that costs about $100 more). As an Echoplex owner (and apparently one of the few who have been able to try a Boomerang), I'd just as soon stick with what I've got, though the Bomerang is very handy as a bare-bones live unit. There really is a slew of features on the Echoplex which neither of the other Big Three can touch -- so much so that almost a year and a half after getting mine, I'm *still* discovering new things that it can do. It's very deep in terms of what you can do with it, but with the combined cost of the footpedal (which is essential, as far as I'm concerned), it is more expensive than the 'Rang. (Note that a MIDI footswitcher can also be used to control Echoplex [and JamMan] functions). If you'd be content with a no-frills unit optimized for stage use, and if your budget's limited, the 'Rang may be for you. Daniel Lanois apparently uses a Boomerang quite a bit; in the current issue of _Guitar Player_ magazine (the one with Clint Eastwood holding a pistol and Telecaster on the cover [!]), Lanois makes several mentions of soundtrack work he's done based around a guitar and a Boomerang pedal; I'd be interested to hear the results. I'd have to assume that Lanois is in a position to use any of the Big Three if he's so inclined, so his preference for the Boomerang suggests that even studo-mavens with expendable income might opt for the 'Rang. That's all for now. Hope this has been of some help, --Andre From ???@??? Tue Mar 18 09:43:04 1997 >From kflint Tue Mar 18 02:04:56 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w6vlF-0004Xg-00; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 02:04:53 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 01:56:10 -0800 To: jim@manager.com, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Re: Living on a rock Resent-Message-ID: <"VSyl7B.A.A3D.PemLz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2292 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 02:04:53 -0800 X-UIDL: 77a8b2e8bc4fd60cdab1c685c5a244e2 At 7:18 PM 3/17/97, Jim Morgan, speaking for himself, wrote: >>Actually, that makes me wonder. I don't know much about Chinese music >>traditions. Does anyone know if there are any looping parallels there, in >>the way there are with other musics about the world? > >Stabbing mightily in the dark here, but I'd guess that the tricky tonal >variations and rhythms would make traditional Chinese music a bit hard on the >ear if you loop it a lot and overlay it-- lotsa quarter tones don't sit on >top of each other too well. In fact some of the Chinese opera you hear around >is a bit hard on the ear before you loop it......ow. Well, it might be a bit hard on your ear, but I for one like them microtonalities just fine! I think I must have gotten bored with the same old 12 notes, because even the most altered scale/chords I can dream up still sound pretty consonant to me. Here's a loop idea I found enjoyable some time back: I used my Fernandes sustainer guitar, but an ebow would work fine to, as would a synth with pitch wheel or any instrument where you can keep a note going and continuously vary the pitch. Sustain a note, and record a loop with it. Keep holding the note with the overdub function on, so it starts to get nice and thick. At some point in the loop, slowly bend or whammy the note slightly out. Then slowly bring it back to the original pitch. Each time through the loop, bend the note a little bit differently at that same point. After a while, you end up with this loop where it sits statically on this dreadful, ugly, consonant sound, and then slowly diverges into a gloriously beautiful dissonance that makes the paint shrivel off the wall, and then slowly pulls back together into that ugly boring sound again. Tension and release, fun for all! It works to switch to some related pitch for the consonant part, like a fifth or octave, or a harmonic even. have fun, kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Mar 18 09:43:08 1997 >From kflint Tue Mar 18 07:04:01 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w70Qi-00074P-00; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 07:04:00 -0800 Message-Id: <199703181456.JAA17443@nico.bway.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 10:01:00 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: dmgraph@bway.net (David Myers) Subject: Re: Boomerang (back attcha) (fwd) Resent-Message-ID: <"3ofvx.A.SZG.Y4qLz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2294 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 07:04:00 -0800 X-UIDL: ba9d2b521d6806ff0e62a7091978a318 >I've seen the Boomerang on sale for around $350 at Guitar Center, which is >about $150 to $200 more than the Echoplex (which doesn't come with its own >dedicated footpedal; that costs about $100 more). I think you mean "$150 to $200 *less* than the Echoplex".... BTW, since there's many Vortex enthusiasts here: does anyone have any ideas about electronic control of the morphing? I'd like to hook up a VCO instead of a footpedal for slow, hands-off A-B transitions. Asked Craig Anderton about it, and while he wasn't familiar with the Vortex (cripes, Craig...) he said that "if it is a matter of current control, an RCA 3080 might be used". From ???@??? Tue Mar 18 09:43:12 1997 >From kflint Tue Mar 18 07:11:32 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w70Xz-0007ZK-00; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 07:11:31 -0800 Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 09:09:06 -0600 (CST) From: Dave Stagner To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Living on a rock In-Reply-To: <31D92804.7D95@lafn.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"WhijBB.A.i5G.DArLz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2295 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 07:11:31 -0800 X-UIDL: 8a05ff6c0b9e4d178aa657cab962fefb On Tue, 2 Jul 1996, Francis Leach wrote: > > >Actually, that makes me wonder. I don't know much about Chinese music > > >traditions. Does anyone know if there are any looping parallels there, in > > >the way there are with other musics about the world? > writer...I've tried to find tradional (classical-Chinese such as ancient > chinese opera, etc.) Chinese midi files on the Internet. Does anyone > know a web site where this is possible? Neither Chinese classical nor Chinese folk music are "loopy" musics, the way, say, Balinese music is. They're basically just-intonated pentatonic scale melodies, played with instruments that slur pitch. In this sense, they're more akin to the pentatonic folk music of various Celtic traditions. A Scots border song like "Matty Groves" has a similar structure. Instrumentally, both classical and folk Chinese music are percussion-heavy, and the percussion instruments tend toward tuned cymbals, which restate melodies along with the stringed instruments. The National Traditional Orchestra of China is currently touring the US. If you get a chance to see them, don't miss it. It's quite an experience, very different from a European orchestra. On the other hand, don't waste a lot of time looking to Chinese music to inspire your loops. It may inspire melodic structures, or different ways to attack notes, but it doesn't have much useful repetitive content for looping. -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.net */ -Charles Fort From ???@??? Tue Mar 18 09:43:33 1997 >From kflint Tue Mar 18 09:34:56 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w72mf-0001kk-00; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 09:34:49 -0800 Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 11:29:23 -0600 (CST) From: Dave Stagner To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Living on a rock In-Reply-To: <31D7EC9D.7AB0@lafn.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"BOKO8.A.JMB.7DtLz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2297 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 09:34:49 -0800 X-UIDL: 371c5a8c6622dd4e456a9efe88267ca6 On Mon, 1 Jul 1996, Francis Leach wrote: > Thanks for your letter, Charles Fort! I'm not "wasting time", as you > called it, to look for midi files from China that produce something > exactly or approximately like the classical music of China. Ah, I see. Can your midi instruments do just intonation? Personally, I think playing just-intonated melodies on equal-temperment western instruments ruins them. It really grates on my ears. Then again, I listen to a lot of this stuff, so my standards are pretty high. If you can get the melodies down with just intonation, it can be very evocative. -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.net */ -Charles Fort From ???@??? Tue Mar 18 21:24:57 1997 >From kflint Tue Mar 18 18:58:04 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w7BZg-0005ug-00; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 18:58:00 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 21:06:39 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: Re: BIG BIG Loop event coming up! Resent-Message-ID: <"FU6YzB.A.txE.-P1Lz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2305 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 18:58:00 -0800 X-UIDL: d024eff9d2f3b28d29c950d94c50a669 > >* Emergence of Man, from NJ (Chapman Stick, with flute and percussion - trio) >* Fingerpaint, from Baltimore, MD (guitars and synths - duo) >* Charles Cohen, from Philadelphia (Buchla Music Easel - solo) >* Accidents Will Happen, from Newark, DE (gtr, bass, & drum - trio) > Hi Jim, Will this be the order that we go on? It's fine with us.......also what time do we need to load in? Patrick *** *** ** Fingerpaint http://www.his.com/~patrick/FNGP.html *** ** From ???@??? Tue Mar 18 21:24:09 1997 >From kflint Tue Mar 18 11:38:27 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w74iG-00040A-00; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 11:38:24 -0800 Message-Id: <199703181927.OAA17957@acc.haverford.edu> Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 14:27:31 -0500 To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com From: jspeer@haverford.edu Subject: BIG BIG Loop event coming up! Resent-Message-ID: <"U3I4RB.A.eGD.X1uLz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2298 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 11:38:24 -0800 X-UIDL: 179d5f61a2e14cbebefef455487ed876 Hi people! It's finally arriving, the Philadelphia / Mid-Atlantic Loop Show, this Saturday. The show will present four loop acts, all from right here on Looper's Delight. I set this up for you guys. Hope you can make it! **** PHILADELPHIA / MID-ATLANTIC LOOP SHOW **** DATE / TIME: Saturday, March 22, 7:30 pm PLACE: LionFish Coffeehouse, 614 N. 2nd St., Philadelphia, PA (half a block north of Spring Garden St.) PHONE #: (215) 829-9103 E-MAIL ME FOR MORE INFO: jspeer@haverford.edu COVER: $5 LOOP SHOW WEB PAGE: http://atomsun.harvard.edu/broadside/loopshow.html The LionFish Coffeehouse and your host Jim Speer present four accomplished acts on the mid-Atlantic looped music scene. This special night showcases an evening of live improvised and composed looped music. For those interested in ambient and experimental music, this unique show is not to be missed! Come witness a broad range of looped-music compositional and improvisatory styles from: * Emergence of Man, from NJ (Chapman Stick, with flute and percussion - trio) * Fingerpaint, from Baltimore, MD (guitars and synths - duo) * Charles Cohen, from Philadelphia (Buchla Music Easel - solo) * Accidents Will Happen, from Newark, DE (gtr, bass, & drum - trio) Come on out for what I know will be a great evening, and you'll be supporting the worthy cause of experimental music in center city. ********************** My Town: Philadelphia! From ???@??? Wed Mar 19 10:14:24 1997 >From kflint Wed Mar 19 05:04:47 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w7L2s-00061N-00; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 05:04:46 -0800 Message-ID: <01BC343C.9BD2D920@mark.asisoftware.com> From: Mark@asisoftware.com (Mark Kata) To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Boomerang (back attcha) (fwd) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 15:04:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"aaiH8D.A.ciF.aP-Lz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2311 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 05:04:46 -0800 X-UIDL: 9f9139acd042d9be4eb92a354598a823 It would be very interesting to use the following LFO waveforms (in addition to the usual sine and triangle waveforms) to electronically control morphing on the Vortex: - Square - Sawtooth - Random Also, waveforms that morph each other might cause some interesting effects. Could a vocoder produce an acceptable signal to control the Vortex? Mark Kata mark@asisoftware.com ---------- From: David Myers[SMTP:dmgraph@bway.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 1997 10:01 AM To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Boomerang (back attcha) (fwd) >I've seen the Boomerang on sale for around $350 at Guitar Center, which is >about $150 to $200 more than the Echoplex (which doesn't come with its own >dedicated footpedal; that costs about $100 more). I think you mean "$150 to $200 *less* than the Echoplex".... BTW, since there's many Vortex enthusiasts here: does anyone have any ideas about electronic control of the morphing? I'd like to hook up a VCO instead of a footpedal for slow, hands-off A-B transitions. Asked Craig Anderton about it, and while he wasn't familiar with the Vortex (cripes, Craig...) he said that "if it is a matter of current control, an RCA 3080 might be used". From ???@??? Tue Mar 18 21:24:18 1997 >From kflint Tue Mar 18 12:52:38 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w75s2-0001u2-00; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 12:52:34 -0800 Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 12:50:34 -0800 (PST) From: "A.S.P." To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Living on a rock In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Ao_DDD.A.qhB.O_vLz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2299 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 12:52:34 -0800 X-UIDL: 8e03d8c1a28b9584fefb739d315ba301 On Tue, 18 Mar 1997, Dave Stagner wrote: > > Ah, I see. Can your midi instruments do just intonation? Personally, I believe any MIDI instrument that is capable of microtonal scales will handle just intonation. Many Yamaha synths have this feature, as do Ensoniq samplers (minus the Mirage). R> > I think playing just-intonated melodies on equal-temperment western > instruments ruins them. It really grates on my ears. Then again, I > listen to a lot of this stuff, so my standards are pretty high. > > If you can get the melodies down with just intonation, it can be very > evocative. > > -dave > > By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. > Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. > Venus De Milo. > To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.net */ > -Charles Fort > > > From ???@??? Tue Mar 18 21:25:09 1997 >From kflint Tue Mar 18 20:34:56 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w7D5P-0006AZ-00; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 20:34:51 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 22:53:06 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: Jam Man Midi Question Resent-Message-ID: <"yr02vC.A.JiF.tw2Lz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2308 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 20:34:51 -0800 X-UIDL: d95fd27bcf5739d477ee4a361a9a4bfe Hi, At a rehearsal this evening Steev and I began to take control of our four jam men with MIDI. I changed the channel for receiving data as it specifies in the manual. I set up the commands I needed and then I read in the manual: Any changes made to channel assignment are temporary. Recognition of these messages on Channel 1 will be re-enabled on power-up. This means that every time I power up I will "temporarily" have to reset the channels.........jeezzzzz...at least it is in the manual .....Now I beg of you Lex rep's on the list to let me know if there is a way to over ride this and permanently assign a different channel. If not please forward this to the person who was possibly doing an upgrade. Many thanks, Patrick *** *** ** Fingerpaint http://www.his.com/~patrick/FNGP.html *** ** From ???@??? Tue Mar 18 21:24:32 1997 >From kflint Tue Mar 18 14:12:24 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w776g-00007t-00; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 14:11:46 -0800 Message-ID: <332F032D.1A39@nyfac.com> Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 16:03:41 -0500 From: nyfac X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Boomerang (back attcha) (fwd) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"o1duvB.A.pNG.87wLz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2300 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 14:11:46 -0800 X-UIDL: dd5ebea6b00fe502493bf76eab327004 I'm afraid I have to agree with Andre on the low sample rate of the 'Rang being its biggest drawback. I went into a store, looking to buy the B-rang as my number one choice. I liked the layout of the pedal and the fact that it was a one-piece unit AND the backwards loop thing (breaks my heart that the JamMan doesn't). I plugged it in, drooling copiously, using a sweet Hamer tele and an even sweeter VHT Pitbull combo (a very clean guitar and amp combination), and tried to layer a simple chord progression in fourths. The sound was just a bit too muddy for layering stuff. The quality of loops by themselves sound pretty cool in a low-fi sort of way. I just wish it was cleaner. Kim made a great suggestion a while back when I wrote much the same thing a while back- that the B-rang had a hugely long sample time, but a pretty low sampling rate. I would own one of those bad boys right now if I had half the sampling time and twice the sampling rate. Glad to see you are part of the list, Mike. Hope I put it politically enough. Trevor From ???@??? Tue Mar 18 21:24:40 1997 >From kflint Tue Mar 18 15:11:21 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w782E-0004fq-00; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 15:11:14 -0800 Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 14:51:39 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Boomerang (back attcha) (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199703181456.JAA17443@nico.bway.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Heq-B.A.LUD.P1xLz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2301 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 15:11:14 -0800 X-UIDL: c77e7886ff642f653270285eecbd4c12 On Tue, 18 Mar 1997, David Myers wrote: > >I've seen the Boomerang on sale for around $350 at Guitar Center, which is > >about $150 to $200 more than the Echoplex (which doesn't come with its own > >dedicated footpedal; that costs about $100 more). > > I think you mean "$150 to $200 *less* than the Echoplex".... OOOOOPS! I did indeed mean that... Price I pay for writing posts at 11:30 PM, I guess. --Andre From ???@??? Tue Mar 18 21:24:44 1997 >From kflint Tue Mar 18 15:59:04 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w78mM-0000qU-00; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 15:58:54 -0800 Message-ID: Date: 18 Mar 1997 15:54:49 -0700 From: "David Kwan" Subject: IRC Chat with David Torn To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP-MS 3.0.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; Name="Message Body" Resent-Message-ID: <"gzCJzC.A.yX.WsyLz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2302 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 15:58:54 -0800 X-UIDL: 42120de3df028fa649f184e16bb4478d [Originally from Gary David of the Artist Shop:] >On Wednesday, March 26 at 9pm EST The Artist Shop will be hosting an IRC >Chat with experimental guitarist, sonic sculptor and producer David Torn. >David has worked with the best in jazz and progressive music, including >David Sylvian, Ryuichi Sakamoto, Jansen/Barbieri/Karn, etc., as well as >creating his own incredible music on his solo albums and his groups like >Lonely Universe and Polytown. And ambient music is definitely in his >repertoire of sonic adventures given his love of loops. > >This chat will be on server on channel <#ArtistShop>. >For full details, check out our IRC Page in The Artist Shop >. > >Gary > >************************************************************** > Gary Davis >The Artist Shop The Other Road >http://www.artist-shop.com OtherRoad@aol.com > SUPPORT THE INDEPENDENT ARTIST!!! >************************************************************** From ???@??? Tue Mar 18 21:24:48 1997 >From 26336 Tue Mar 18 18:21:59 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w7Awz-00035F-00; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 18:18:01 -0800 Message-ID: <332F341D.987@crystalball.com> Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 18:32:29 -0600 From: "Mikell D. Nelson" Reply-To: mnelson@crystalball.com Organization: Boomerang Musical Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Boomerang (back attcha) (fwd) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"z_xsoB.A.7lG.R_zLz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2304 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 18:18:01 -0800 X-UIDL: 63dde6bdcf6b5b5afd2f4ee47cc0a031 The Man Himself wrote: > I should also add that since I've only given the Boomerang a cursory spin > in a music store, I don't claim 100% certainty on the above information; > since Mike "Motley" Nelson is on the list, I'll readily defer to him if > I'm in error regarding any of the above information. Actually, Andre, I feel your comments were fairly even handed and honest, and I thank you for that. We don't offer the deepest unit or have the highest sampling rate, but do offer a good sounding unit that has a lot of features for the money. Also, the Rang has a much longer recording time than the other loopers. We are planning a software release around June that will include selectable decay rates and some other useful features. > I've seen the Boomerang on sale for around $350 at Guitar Center, which is > about $150 to $200 more than the Echoplex (which doesn't come with its own > dedicated footpedal; that costs about $100 more). I know you meant the Rang is $150 to $200 "less" than the Echoplex, not "more". With the necessary pedal for the Echoplex the Rang is $250 to $300 less. And the standard Boomerang Phrase Sampler records for 32 seconds (1 minute on low sample rate), while the standard Echoplex records for 12 seconds. > Daniel Lanois apparently uses a Boomerang quite a bit; ... > Lanois makes several mentions of soundtrack work he's done based around a > guitar and a Boomerang pedal; I'd be interested to hear the results. Yeah, me too. -- == Motley == -- From ???@??? Tue Mar 18 21:25:07 1997 >From kflint Tue Mar 18 19:57:49 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w7CVX-0003Jz-00; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 19:57:47 -0800 Message-ID: <332F57AA.2F5D@nyfac.com> Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 22:04:10 -0500 From: nyfac X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: You asked for it, and now you have it my friend! References: <332F032D.1A39@nyfac.com> <332F3B7C.6D54@crystalball.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"C0TgJC.A.q0C.wN2Lz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2307 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 19:57:47 -0800 X-UIDL: 66f56c234b115d20185fab8465960c5d > What would you guys like to see? Please tell me. I would dearly love > to hear from you on this issue. On a highly related note, tell me how > you use looping in your musical life: live performance, sound creation > for recording, practice, song development, etc. Well, Mr. Nelson, I'm glad you asked! I would, and I think I speak for a lot of us here, would gladly trade sampling time for a higher sampling rate. One of the things I like a lot about the Rang is that half speed/twice sampling rate- Believe me, few enjoy get pitch shifted down and dirty like I do. A lower sampling rate can be a beautiful thing- witness the EMU SP-1200(?) that drum machine with 12(?) bit, 33khz (help me out here I you guys know this) sampling. Sounds fantastic. The hip-hop locals used to kill themselves trying to get one of those from Sam Ass (pun intended), and with good reason. The most fun I had with your pedal was with the lowest rate, making a god-awful racket. One other thing that I haven't seen in any of the unit (doesn't mean it's not there, however) is a clean split (hopefully unbuffered) from the back of the box- meaning that without futzing about with mixers, fx loops, what-have-you you could run a line into, say, a sansamp, and then into the PA (leaving your guitar/amp sound unblemished) without needing a splitter box . I had a traumatic experience with a Morley ABY box that has left me scarred for life :) Many have called me a sucker for thinking I can hear the effect of buffering in fx pedal, but I at least think it makes a difference. It bothered me enough to beg a friend of mine to build me the world's only totally passive effects looper box when I was using ten pedals at a time. Just as an aside, the massive impedence mismatch of crappy old footpedal never really bothered me all that much. Go figure. Anyway, those are my two cents. PS- what ever happened to all the talk about a loopers delight CD? I kind of wanted to hear some your collective work... Trev From ???@??? Tue Mar 18 21:25:00 1997 >From kflint Tue Mar 18 19:05:57 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w7Bh7-0006cV-00; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 19:05:41 -0800 From: David_Mitchell@HP-Australia-notes1.om.hp.com X-Openmail-Hops: 1 Date: Wed, 19 Mar 97 14:59:23 +1000 In-Reply-To: <"NOTES_CORRELATION_ITEM*"@MHS> Message-Id: <"99866:1*"@MHS> Subject: Boomerang: sample time vs. sample rate Mime-Version: 1.0 To: mnelson@crystalball.com Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="Lotus" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ZECoHD.A.F2F.Cc1Lz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2306 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 19:05:41 -0800 X-UIDL: d7c55e0709347bb7a517849ed9528565 G'day Motley, Please take this as a vote for less time/higher sample rate. From memory, the Boomerang gives you ~30 seconds at 32kHz with the base memory config; changing that to ...umm... e.g. ~20 seconds at 48kHz would be enough to convince me to buy one when I'm in the US again in May this year. Here's my criteria in choosing my (first) looper, which I'd guess would be pretty similar to a lot of other peoples'. For me, these are in decreasing order of importance: - sampling rate; must be CD-quality (44kHz) or close enough that I can hide it in a mix - cost (always close to the top!) - simplicity and capability of real time controls; preferably via MIDI - "extras" (backwards loop capability, cost/ease of expanding memory, speed/pitch changing capability, likelihood of surviving stage mishaps, etc.) The Boomerang wouldn't make my list due to sampling rate. It may well be good enough in real life (as you suggest), but I've got no way of testing that it would work for *me* at home, when I'm trying it out in a shop environment. Improve that and I'd be choosing between having MIDI control and some extra features (on the Echoplex), and saving $US150 or so to spend elsewhere on presents for my wife and child. As I'll be leaving my wife to look after our child for 2 weeks on her own while I'm travelling, guess which of these choices will be made for me...? Regards Dave Mitchell, in the heat of the Australian summer mnelson@crystalball.com/HP-Singapore/mimegw34 03/19/97 11:03 AM To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com/HP-Singapore/mimegw34 @ SGP-GW1 cc: mnelson@crystalball.com/HP-Singapore/mimegw34 @ SGP-GW1 Subject: Re: Boomerang (back attcha) (fwd) nyfac wrote: > Kim made a great suggestion a while back when I wrote much the same > thing a while back- that the B-rang had a hugely long sample time, but a > pretty low sampling rate. I would own one of those bad boys right now > if I had half the sampling time and twice the sampling rate. > > Glad to see you are part of the list, Mike. Hope I put it politically > enough. Trevor, This group is nothing if not gentlemanly and gracious, unlike some other user groups I've visited where it seemed imperative that everyone convince the other that a certain guitar, amp, or artist was THE happening thing, and you were an idiot if you disagreed. I do take issue with one word: muddy. I regularly create 5 to 6 layer musical inventions with my electric guitar and/or GR-50 synth, and they sound very good to me. I have used my Boomerang with an acoustic guitar and with a mic to create percussion instrument loops; they too sound good. It is not CD quality sound, but neither is it muddy in my opinion. In another e-mail I mentioned an upcoming software release for the Boomerang Phrase Sampler, and Lee and I have discussed increasing the sample rate at that time. We have the ability to increase the sample rate, and are considering the trade off you mentioned: time and sample rate are inversely proporional. If one goes up, the other goes down. What would you guys like to see? Please tell me. I would dearly love to hear from you on this issue. On a highly related note, tell me how you use looping in your musical life: live performance, sound creation for recording, practice, song development, etc. -- == Motley == -- From ???@??? Wed Mar 19 10:14:08 1997 >From kflint Tue Mar 18 23:28:05 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w7Fn0-00020C-00; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 23:28:02 -0800 Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 23:22:02 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: You Rang? In-Reply-To: <332F3B7C.6D54@crystalball.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"5QJC-C.A.GuB._T5Lz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2309 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 23:28:02 -0800 X-UIDL: bdab9b712cc6067b881b9d7cb6c3a8b9 On Tue, 18 Mar 1997, Mikell D. Nelson wrote: > What would you guys like to see? Please tell me. I would dearly love > to hear from you on this issue. My two main gripes with the Rang are the sample rate and the lack of a continuously variable feedback control. Count me in as someone who'd much rather have a shorter loop time with higher fidelity. Also, the feedback control issue is pretty important, as far as I'm concerned, because being able to continuously change it in the midst of a loop is a one of the crucial basic techniques involved in realt-time looping (at least as far as my own work has gone). Now, it *is* nice to have a feedback control that is automatically scaled back as newer layers are added -- this is a feature on a few Vortex patches, and it lends a very organic quality. But there are some applications where a continuously variable feeback scale just can't be beat. With regards to one of the proposed Rang updates, it would be cool to have a number of different feedback "scales" to choose from, but would a person be stuck with this after the loop has been engaged? If not, this could create an undesirably static quality in the loop at work. What about the possibility of setting the output level control in such a way that it can control more than one feature, i.e. could be switched between volume regulation and feedback control? That would be great, in my book. I was also a little discouraged that the pitch/speed change feature could only be engaged by stopping the loop, making the switch, and then starting it up again. I understand that there's a limit in terms of how many features can get their own dedicated footswitch, but I'd much rather have seen a single pedal dedicated to the pitch change, as opposed to, say, the one-shot playback function getting its own switch. Still, the Rang is the only one of the Big Three that can pull off that trick, and it's quite a cool one at that. These are about the only major suggestions I'd have. Even in it's present form, I think it's a really neat unit, and the live slant of the construction and the selectable input gain stages are particularly nice touches unique to the Rang. I'm glad to hear that a software upgrade is in the works as well. All for now, --Andre From ???@??? Wed Mar 19 10:14:11 1997 >From kflint Wed Mar 19 00:14:43 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w7GWA-0004Ji-00; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 00:14:42 -0800 Message-ID: <332F942D.12A5@nyfac.com> Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 02:22:21 -0500 From: nyfac X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: You Rang? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vAta_C.A.m6D.w_5Lz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2310 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 00:14:42 -0800 X-UIDL: 848d5b6556e18db57f47f40ba05ce765 Perhaps the crack habit is addling my brains more than I had thought, but I was under the impression that I was switching between full and half speed, bringing things up and down an octave. Trev PS- the variable control feedback thingie is pretty critical. I would agree. From ???@??? Wed Mar 19 10:14:30 1997 >From kflint Wed Mar 19 07:08:06 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w7MyB-0003CK-00; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 07:08:03 -0800 Message-Id: <9703191431.AA15348@beryllium.lexicon.com> Priority: urgent Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 09:02:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: RE: Jam Man Midi Question To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V4.00a)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"UM6IJD.A.S0C.ZCAMz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2313 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 07:08:03 -0800 X-UIDL: e44d19bbc38f43d933462a6be976e07d Hello Patrick et al, There is no non-volatile memory in the JAMMAN so there is no place to store a channel assignment. I will pass your comment on to the designers but I do not believe that it is possible to change this in the software. Please let me know if you have any questions or if there is anything that I can do for you. Best regards, Greg Hogan Lexicon Customer Service Phone 617-280-0372 FAX 617-280-0499 email: ghogan@lexicon.com From ???@??? Wed Mar 19 10:14:27 1997 >From kflint Wed Mar 19 06:44:15 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w7Mb8-0001zU-00; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 06:44:14 -0800 Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 09:40:28 -0500 (EST) From: KRosser414@aol.com Message-ID: <970319094012_1150789406@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Performance Note, L.A. Resent-Message-ID: <"kMu9h.A.-tB.ns_Lz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2312 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 06:44:14 -0800 X-UIDL: 33e677d79cd3764a95a2952b2f9383fd There will be a performance this Saturday, March 22 at Spaceland in the Silverlake area of Los Angeles featuring heavy looping content by myself and Nels Cline on guitars, Richard Derrick on bass and Bob Lee on drums. Ours is only one set of five or so that will be taking place, and others will feature more of Nels as well as Joe Baiza and their amazing Electro-Harmonix 16-second delays. Festivities start at 3:00 p.m. Feel free to e-mail me for more specific info. Thanks, Ken Rosser From ???@??? Wed Mar 19 10:14:41 1997 >From kflint Wed Mar 19 08:08:28 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w7Nuc-0006sD-00; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 08:08:26 -0800 Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 10:04:03 -0600 (CST) From: Dave Stagner To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Boomerang: sample time vs. sample rate In-Reply-To: <"99866:1*"@MHS> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"UUjFTC.A.nCG.i5AMz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2314 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 08:08:26 -0800 X-UIDL: cfa79798465e715ca3792839913eb8c8 I wish sound quality were as simple as sample rates. Unfortunately, it ain't. Lots of PCM devices have very low sampling rates, but sound terrific (like the EH16 and the old DeltaLab delays). Other devices have high sampling rates and good specs, but sound like cold wet sand packed in your ears (anything by ART). And older Lexicon stuff like the Vortex and LXP-5 sound great, despite mediocre specs and sampling rate. It isn't just sampling rate, it's the overall quality of the A/D and D/A sections, and the digitizing technology used. Now, if the Boomerang actually *sounds* bad, that's one thing. But if it's just bad on paper, who cares? -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.net */ -Charles Fort From ???@??? Wed Mar 19 10:14:44 1997 >From kflint Wed Mar 19 08:12:11 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w7Nxl-00077Y-00; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 08:11:41 -0800 Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 11:05:32 -0500 (EST) From: KILLINFO@aol.com Message-ID: <970319110513_-1270774026@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Performance Note, L.A. Resent-Message-ID: <"OVaN4B.A.cTG.R8AMz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2315 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 08:11:41 -0800 X-UIDL: 7e167be817d49eef68222d8354400ca9 In Reply to Ken Rosser, If could be so kind as to do me a favor, please tell Nels Kline "Hullo" from Ted Killian (formerly up in Santa Barbara at Seymour Duncan). He's a great guy. Ask him to get in touch by email if you can. Ted Killian killinfo@aol.com From ???@??? Wed Mar 19 10:14:48 1997 >From kflint Wed Mar 19 08:23:42 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w7O9I-0000Jk-00; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 08:23:36 -0800 Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 10:19:26 -0600 (CST) From: Dave Stagner To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: You asked for it, and now you have it my friend! In-Reply-To: <332F57AA.2F5D@nyfac.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"OZauEB.A.USH._HBMz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2316 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 08:23:36 -0800 X-UIDL: c2c60ca249a51a44466f24faf1f64562 On Tue, 18 Mar 1997, nyfac wrote: > Many have called me a sucker for thinking I can hear the effect of > buffering in fx pedal, but I at least think it makes a difference. It > bothered me enough to beg a friend of mine to build me the world's only > totally passive effects looper box when I was using ten pedals at a > time. Makes perfect sense to me. It amazes me that some people will show such serious concern over the circuitry of their tube amps and guitar electronics, then run signal through buffers made from cheap op-amps and electrolytic capacitors. Impedance mismatch will introduce noise and roll off highs (like electric guitarists would care), but it won't add odd-order distortion or ruin dynamic range. On the other hand, there's nothing wrong with a *well-made* buffer. It just needs to be built to the sort of standards we expect from amps and top-quality effects. -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.net */ -Charles Fort From ???@??? Wed Mar 19 22:01:37 1997 >From kflint Wed Mar 19 12:23:32 1997 Received: from xenon.chromatic.com [199.5.224.1] by ferret with smtp (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w7RtO-0004Jc-00; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 12:23:26 -0800 Received: from kflint.chromatic.com ([140.174.118.134]) by xenon.chromatic.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA10662 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 12:23:27 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970319203111.00a6a7e8@xenon.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@xenon.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 12:31:11 -0800 To: Kim Flint From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Boomerang (back attcha) (fwd) X-UIDL: 3a007bd5624a1b40607b3b6c7c897e95 >Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 19:03:56 -0600 >From: "Mikell D. Nelson" >Reply-To: mnelson@crystalball.com >Organization: Boomerang Musical Products >To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >Subject: Re: Boomerang (back attcha) (fwd) >References: <332F032D.1A39@nyfac.com> >Resent-Message-ID: <"4xsQ_B.A.0YG.37zLz"@ferret> >Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2303 >X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >Resent-Sender: SmartList >Resent-To: kflint@chromatic.com >Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 17:32:57 -0800 > >nyfac wrote: >> Kim made a great suggestion a while back when I wrote much the same >> thing a while back- that the B-rang had a hugely long sample time, but a >> pretty low sampling rate. I would own one of those bad boys right now >> if I had half the sampling time and twice the sampling rate. >> >> Glad to see you are part of the list, Mike. Hope I put it politically >> enough. > >Trevor, > This group is nothing if not gentlemanly and gracious, unlike some >other user groups I've visited where it seemed imperative that everyone >convince the other that a certain guitar, amp, or artist was THE >happening thing, and you were an idiot if you disagreed. > I do take issue with one word: muddy. I regularly create 5 to 6 layer >musical inventions with my electric guitar and/or GR-50 synth, and they >sound very good to me. I have used my Boomerang with an acoustic guitar >and with a mic to create percussion instrument loops; they too sound >good. It is not CD quality sound, but neither is it muddy in my opinion. > In another e-mail I mentioned an upcoming software release for the >Boomerang Phrase Sampler, and Lee and I have discussed increasing the >sample rate at that time. We have the ability to increase the sample >rate, and are considering the trade off you mentioned: time and sample >rate are inversely proporional. If one goes up, the other goes down. > What would you guys like to see? Please tell me. I would dearly love >to hear from you on this issue. On a highly related note, tell me how >you use looping in your musical life: live performance, sound creation >for recording, practice, song development, etc. > >-- == Motley == -- > > > _______________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 VLSI Systems Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research From ???@??? Wed Mar 19 22:01:50 1997 >From kflint Wed Mar 19 13:46:21 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w7TBT-0003FR-00; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 13:46:11 -0800 Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 13:33:49 -0800 X-Sender: mgsam@wave.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: mgsam@wave.net Subject: Re: Boomerang: sample time vs. sample rate Resent-Message-ID: <"XkrRaB.A.ZBC.5tFMz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2317 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 13:46:11 -0800 X-UIDL: 9567f66dbc630e768d8a4b466aae57f1 >I wish sound quality were as simple as sample rates. Unfortunately, >it ain't. Lots of PCM devices have very low sampling rates, but sound >terrific (like the EH16 and the old DeltaLab delays). Other devices >have high sampling rates and good specs, but sound like cold wet sand >packed in your ears (anything by ART). And older Lexicon stuff like >the Vortex and LXP-5 sound great, despite mediocre specs and sampling >rate. > >It isn't just sampling rate, it's the overall quality of the A/D and >D/A sections, and the digitizing technology used. > >Now, if the Boomerang actually *sounds* bad, that's one thing. But if >it's just bad on paper, who cares? > >-dave > >By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. >Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. >Venus De Milo. >To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.net */ > -Charles Fort From ???@??? Wed Mar 19 22:01:52 1997 >From kflint Wed Mar 19 13:46:51 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w7TBx-0003Hj-00; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 13:46:41 -0800 Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 13:33:53 -0800 X-Sender: mgsam@wave.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: mgsam@wave.net Subject: Re: Boomerang: sample time vs. sample rate Resent-Message-ID: <"vhtBAC.A.bCC.DuFMz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2318 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 13:46:41 -0800 X-UIDL: 1b536fcea377df54411625bbc763e136 >I wish sound quality were as simple as sample rates. Unfortunately, >it ain't... This is absolutely true. Sampling rate won't tell you if a piece of equipment sounds good. From ???@??? Wed Mar 19 22:02:04 1997 >From kflint Wed Mar 19 14:44:12 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w7U5V-0000Km-00; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 14:44:05 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Ott, John" To: "'Loopers Delight'" Subject: JamMan pedal for free (almost) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 17:33:22 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 Encoding: 36 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"vP9Fs.A.F2G.znGMz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2319 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 14:44:05 -0800 X-UIDL: d54d0ec8debf4f302536f33b1140f717 Greetings Loopy bunch I've been off the list. (my e-mail got moved to a new server and I guess the list server choked on that ) Anyway I'm back and with an offer. I picked up a Ground Control Midi Pedal over the weekend. Quite pleased. I can now get to all my Jamdude features in a non clunky fashion. Thanks to those on the list that recommended it. Anyway the footswitch that came with it is now gathering dust, so I'll let anyone that wants it for a second switch for their jamman have it for the cost of postage. First come first served. e-mail me privately later John PS. I really dig the Sling Blade soundtrack from Daniel Lanios, some cool loops on it. I think some looper recommended it. Thanks again. I finally saw the film last week Billy Bob Thorton was scary good, and Dwight Yokum as a drunken-failed-redneck-rocker was suprisingly good. John Ott Information Technology Manager Alliant Techsystems, Inc. Advanced Technology Applications 401 Defense Highway Annapolis MD 21401 (410) 266 1743 From ???@??? Wed Mar 19 22:02:28 1997 >From kflint Wed Mar 19 20:38:48 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w7Zcc-0005tt-00; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 20:38:38 -0800 Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 19:32:28 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: lowfrqcy@west.net (Ryan Blum) Subject: FS: Lexicon Vortex effects processor $105/bo Resent-Message-ID: <"47-9MD.A.oEF.Z4LMz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2320 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 20:38:38 -0800 X-UIDL: 7685d4bcc8b702c76fc2a95a06abf210 here's a nice little deal...hopefully someone'll want to snatch it up. >> From: casey@istart.com (Casey McCabe) >> Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.marketplace >> Subject: FS: Lexicon Vortex effects processor $105/bo >> Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 14:54:47 GMT >> >> For Sale: Lexicon Vortex effects processor $105 >> >> These once retailed for over $400. >> >> If interested, email me now at casey@istart.com good luck, Ryan ---- Ryan Blum "...to play 'Giant Steps' because you can seems lowfrqcy@west.net ridiculous to me. I went through that, but I was 14 years old." - John Medeski From ???@??? Thu Mar 20 10:06:28 1997 >From kflint Thu Mar 20 08:13:10 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w7kSj-0004W9-00; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 08:13:09 -0800 Message-ID: <33315530.7D92@nyfac.com> Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 10:18:08 -0500 From: nyfac X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: JamMan pedal for free (almost) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bVaFtC.A.PxD.0DWMz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2321 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 08:13:09 -0800 X-UIDL: 53623b4ef0b45fb742d2c4c7dfd0ee90 John- How do you like the ground control pedal? There has been one on sale in the guitar shop by my office for a while, and I think I should be able to get it cheap. Are the control pedals on it responsive enough? Trev From ???@??? Thu Mar 20 10:06:45 1997 >From kflint Thu Mar 20 08:43:59 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w7kwY-0007G8-00; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 08:43:58 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Ott, John" To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: Ground Contral q&a Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 11:39:43 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 Encoding: 46 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"xSRk7D.A.ahG.QiWMz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2323 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 08:43:58 -0800 X-UIDL: 8a811afc046f45cf81d022d275b4efba >> >---------- >From: nyfac >Reply To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >Sent: Thursday, March 20, 1997 3:18 PM >To: John_Ott@ATK.COM >Subject: Re: JamMan pedal for free (almost) > >John- > >How do you like the ground control pedal? There has been one on sale in >the guitar shop by my office for a while, and I think I should be able >to get it cheap. > >Are the control pedals on it responsive enough? > > >Trev > << I like it. I haven't programmed it yet to get all the program changes I use in one bank, but using the default setup was pretty much plug and play. The foot switches don't have a lot of "feel" but I've got used to it pretty quickly. The program changes messages go out very quickly no noticeable delay. I got mine at Washington Music Center in Wheaton MD (outside DC) They quoted me a price based on the version 1.0 units they had and gave me the same price when they got some with 2.4 software even thought their cost went up. Their new price for the 2.4 version is $221 plus $6 for a MIDI cable. You need version 2.x to send the same program change message twice in row. (like two taps) Version 1.x software filters out what it believes are redundant program change messages. I don't know if you can get a ROM upgrade for a version 1.x pedal. Anyone know the answer to that? They'll ship and you can get a quote by sending email to sales@wmcworld.com. or check their web page at www.wmcworld.com. later >john From ???@??? Thu Mar 20 10:06:32 1997 >From kflint Thu Mar 20 08:37:16 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w7kq2-0006dj-00; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 08:37:14 -0800 Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 11:40:06 -0500 (EST) From: David Talento X-Sender: legion@omni1 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Secret Loop Show... This monday In-Reply-To: <33315530.7D92@nyfac.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"5T1JO.A.a_F.OcWMz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2322 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 08:37:14 -0800 X-UIDL: f5c037be6ac4af56f3adb81104a62720 My band Overdrive Date Master will be playing an unannouced set this monday night (3/24) at Upstairs at Nicks in Phila, pa. (16 S 2nd st). We normally use everything from toy monkeys and megaphones to an obie echoplex (fed with cassette source material), analogue synths, dualing theremins, etc etc. This show will concentrate on our new system of tape loops on 8tracks as well as the Chordorama which is a 8track looping footpedal device similar to the biotron and mellotron. Also in attendance will be some Wolensak Reel to reels and other nonsense. Our set will start around 9:30-10 making it an early night. Check out the web page (below) for more info on ODM and such stuff. -------- Help Wanted Productions - Bringing you the best in organic electronic and sweaty rock music since we started. Http://www.voicenet.com/~legion Available next month: "The Feedback Machine" a new studio album from the Music for Isolation Tanks live lineup. Only $6.00 postpaid! From ???@??? Thu Mar 20 20:55:52 1997 >From kflint Thu Mar 20 11:19:00 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w7nMU-0005e8-00; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 11:18:54 -0800 Message-Id: <9703201917.AA23430@beryllium.lexicon.com> Priority: urgent Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 12:26:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: RE: Ground Contral q&a To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V4.00a)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"Re8djC.A.Q8E.kyYMz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2327 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 11:18:54 -0800 X-UIDL: 7eaef0788aa9b1cefa7daa4d192bed72 About the DMC Ground Control John said:"You need version 2.x to send the same program change message twice in row. (like two taps) Version 1.x software filters out what it believes are redundant program change messages. I don't know if you can get a ROM upgrade for a version 1.x pedal. And asked: "Anyone know the answer to that?" The answer is yes. From ???@??? Thu Mar 20 10:06:57 1997 >From kflint Thu Mar 20 09:34:51 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w7ljj-0003w9-00; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 09:34:47 -0800 Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 09:29:34 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: mgsam@wave.net Subject: Re: JamMan pedal for free (almost) Resent-Message-ID: <"Hc6rx.A.xHD.7OXMz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2324 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 09:34:47 -0800 X-UIDL: c4e8d5cbab15d5c34f83cde08a594a11 Yo: John, I WANT that peddle. Kevin Cooney 1280 Madrone St. Ashland, Oregon 97520. Also, what kind of midi controller did you get for your jamman? Where did you get it and how well does the thing work. My loop head partner and I play live and we are VERY interested in the midi option. Best, Kevin From ???@??? Thu Mar 20 20:55:47 1997 >From kflint Thu Mar 20 10:29:04 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w7maC-00016N-00; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 10:29:00 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Ott, John" To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: JamMan pedal for free (almost) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 13:18:03 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 Encoding: 48 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"MK8pOD.A.Sl._CYMz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2325 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 10:29:00 -0800 X-UIDL: c2e84b2a75b469751c61e20b1cbe037e >---------- >From: mgsam@wave.net >Reply To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >Sent: Thursday, March 20, 1997 5:29 PM >To: John_Ott@ATK.COM >Subject: Re: JamMan pedal for free (almost) > >Yo: > >John, I WANT that peddle. > >Kevin Cooney >1280 Madrone St. >Ashland, Oregon 97520. > >Also, what kind of midi controller did you get for your jamman? Where did >you get it and how well does the thing work. My loop head partner and I >play live and we are VERY interested in the midi option. > >Best, >Kevin > Sorry You were fourth to reply. I got a ground control midi pedal from Washington Music Center in Wheaton Maryland. Midi is the only way to get at loop fade functions on the jamman. You need version 2.x of the software because the 1.x version considers two program changes in a row redundant (like two taps) I got a version 2.4 pedal , current price is $221 plus $6 for cable. They'll ship if you can't make it to the store. You can request a quote by sending email to sales@wmcworld.com or check out the web page at www.wmcworld.com. good luck sorry about the free footswitch John > > > From ???@??? Thu Mar 20 20:55:49 1997 >From kflint Thu Mar 20 10:38:44 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w7mjX-000204-00; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 10:38:39 -0800 Message-ID: Date: 20 Mar 1997 12:39:39 -0800 From: "Hartnett, Travis" Subject: Boomerang review To: "Loopers Delight postings" X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP for Quarterdeck Mail; Version 4.0.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"Jt6-kB.A.RbB.CMYMz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2326 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 10:38:39 -0800 X-UIDL: 29061039c9e04828bb3799b3de5cd5bf Lots of talk about the Boomerang recently--here's what Guitar Player had to say about it: from Guitar Player, 10/96 The Boomerang Phrase Sampler by Joe Gore Not long ago loop-crazed guitarists bled top dollar for discontinued devices like the Electro-Harmonix 16-Second Delay or hotrodded Lexicon PCM-42s. Then Lexicon and Oberheim filled the long-delay void with, respectively the JamMan and the Echoplex Digital Pro, rack mountable units that offer formidable looping features at prices far below those of more elaborate signal processors from the like likes of T.C. Electronic and Eventide. The Echoplex is definitely the deeper of the units, though it costs almost twice as much as the nifty-in-its-own-right JamMan. And now thereÕs a third contender: the Boomerang Phrase Sampler. It may be the price/performance winner--if its simplified but stage-friendly features fulfill your sampling/looping needs. (If youÕre unclear whether you have sampling and looping needs, see last monthÕs issue [8/96], in which loop addict David Torn discusses the technique and analyzes its attendant hardware. First, the BoomerangÕs limitations: None of the devices in question remembers your loops after power-down, but the Echoplex and JamMan allow you to select between multiple loops during recording and playback. The Boomerang is strictly a one-shot device, though it too allows infinite overdubs. Its maximum sample rate is 16kHz, lower than the Lexicon or Oberheim, albeit perfectly adequate for most electric guitar applications, especially live ones. The Boomerang lacks spiffy features like the OberheimÕs undo operation and ability to craft overdubs longer than the initial loop, the LexiconÕs tap-tempo delay, or either deviceÕs MIDI sync capabilities. The BoomerangÕs strength is simplicity. Unlike its two competitors, itÕs a self contained floor unit--no rack stuff, no remote pedals. The 5.5Óx17.5Ó metal housing seems genuinely roadworthy, though the wall-wart adaptor is a bummer. Five sturdy foot switches trigger most functions, which are illuminated by big LEDs. Like the other boxes, you can select between infinite looping and single playback. As on the Oberheim, you can reverse any loop (the Lexicon only reverses in single-playback mode). The Boomerang also does a few tricks neither competitor can boast. A Òthru muteÓ foot switch removes your direct signal form the outputs, so you can silently initiate a loop for subsequent unleashing. With thru mute engaged, you can literally create backwards guitar is real time. A half-speed option lets you replay your samples an octave down, or record them slow and then shift into double-time--handy for learning and transcribing. (Low speed doubles your total sampling time, but at a halved sampling rate--i.e., with noticeable loss of high-end definition.) One particularly inspired feature is an output-level Òfoot roller,Ó a big potentiometer with a textured rubber surface readily regulated by toe. You can fade any sample in or out--way smart. Of the current looper-samplers, the Boomerang is the easiest to use. If you plan to manipulate just one loop at a time and donÕt seek pristine sonic results when applying the device to sources that withstand relatively low sample rates less readily than do electric guitars (acoustic guitars, voices, pianos, the sound of wall-warts being hurled through plate glass windows), this may be the top pick. It lists for $459, the same as the JamMan. At that price, the Boomerang offers 30 seconds of sampling at workable sound quality (60 seconds at lo-fi slow speed), as opposed to the JamManÕs superb-sounding eight seconds. (For about $140 more, you can expand to 120/240 seconds. The JamMan expands to 32 seconds for about the same price. The Echoplex delivers 12.5 hi-fi seconds at its $879 base price, or 50 seconds for $1,295.) The Boomerang is neither the deepest nor the best-sounding option, but, depending on your needs, it may be the smartest one. From ???@??? Thu Mar 20 20:56:02 1997 >From kflint Thu Mar 20 13:11:35 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w7p7V-0006uW-00; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 13:11:33 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Ott, John" To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Ground Contral q&a Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 16:07:04 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 Encoding: 29 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"jmRMWB.A.uMG.8caMz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2328 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 13:11:33 -0800 X-UIDL: 602e7ee726d09d9d956d3211629cb3c4 >---------- >From: Hogan, Greg >Reply To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >Sent: Thursday, March 20, 1997 5:26 PM >To: John_Ott@ATK.COM >Subject: RE: Ground Contral q&a > > >About the DMC Ground Control John said:"You need version 2.x to send the >same program change message twice in row. (like two taps) Version 1.x >software filters out what it believes are redundant program change >messages. I don't know if you can get a ROM upgrade for a version 1.x >pedal. > >And asked: "Anyone know the answer to that?" > >The answer is yes. > < Do you know details, such as $cost, how easy to do? There might be some 1.x units, (I 've seen some store demo units) that might be had rather cheaply and then upgraded for less than a new ground control. I know you don't speak for Digital Music Corp., Greg, just wondering if you knew more details thanks John From ???@??? Thu Mar 20 20:56:09 1997 >From kflint Thu Mar 20 14:07:10 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w7pzB-00045A-00; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 14:07:01 -0800 Message-Id: <9703202205.AA24409@beryllium.lexicon.com> Priority: urgent Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 16:52:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: RE: Ground Contral q&a To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V4.00a)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"IcrCMD.A.ReD.QQbMz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2329 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 14:07:01 -0800 X-UIDL: ca00cd0553298df2cc9c01a2c6898784 Hello, I do not know any of the details on upgrading a Ground Control but Digital Music Corporations phone # is 818-991-3881 and their FAX # is 818-991-4185. Best regards, Greg From ???@??? Thu Mar 20 20:56:11 1997 >From kflint Thu Mar 20 14:36:25 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w7qRZ-0006cZ-00; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 14:36:21 -0800 Message-Id: <199703202227.OAA28142@dsp.net> From: "James Reynolds" To: Subject: Re: Ground Contral q&a Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 14:12:27 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1160 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"BRozOB.A.2lF.vobMz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2330 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 14:36:21 -0800 X-UIDL: 5f64850aa241424c52cef6c36d2dbf52 about the ground control upgrade: > Do you know details, such as $cost, how easy to do? > There might be some 1.x units, (I 've seen some > store demo units) that might be had rather cheaply > and then upgraded for less than a new ground control. > from an exchange i had with dmc's josh fiden: >the ground control upgrade is $20+3.50(shipping). unless you're in >california, of course, inwhich case you must add $1.65 for tax. > >you can mail us a check for $23.50. or you can call or e-mail a visa or >mastercard number, including expiration and the name as it appears on the >card. don't forget to include your shipping address. their number is 818 991 3881 (you won't find it in the manual). address: 5312-J Derry Avenue Agoura Hills, CA 91301 there's also a memory upgrade (!) for another 20 bucks, that lets you store 360 patches! (each patch can send out up to 8 simultaneous program change messages to 8 devices, and can be given an alphanumeric name). trev: the pedals feel like a slightly more robust version of a DOD stomp box - i like it, you can feel them "tap". digital music corp has a web page which was pretty minimal last time i looked: http://www.voodoolab.com james From ???@??? Fri Mar 21 02:31:10 1997 >From kflint Thu Mar 20 21:23:35 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w7wne-0007DD-00; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 21:23:34 -0800 Message-ID: <3331B6BB.3CBF@nyfac.com> Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 17:14:19 -0500 From: nyfac X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Ground Contral q&a References: <9703201917.AA23430@beryllium.lexicon.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lCgQpD.A.kSG.tlhMz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2332 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 21:23:34 -0800 X-UIDL: 8253fe8c4918ed0780dafe147c2aa4c1 Hogan, Greg wrote: > > About the DMC Ground Control John said:"You need version 2.x to send the > same program change message twice in row. (like two taps) Version 1.x > software filters out what it believes are redundant program change > messages. I don't know if you can get a ROM upgrade for a version 1.x > pedal. > > And asked: "Anyone know the answer to that?" > > The answer is yes. I just bought one for $20 from them. Their number is 818-991-3881. Trev From ???@??? Thu Mar 20 20:56:18 1997 >From kflint Thu Mar 20 15:38:50 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w7rPr-0004WV-00; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 15:38:39 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Ott, John" To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Ground Contral q&a Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 18:26:35 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 Encoding: 59 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"TaDlBB.A.iSD.ufcMz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2331 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 15:38:39 -0800 X-UIDL: 028612c10c3b9f2652412d49ea0efe81 > >---------- >From: James Reynolds >Reply To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >Sent: Thursday, March 20, 1997 10:12 PM >To: John_Ott@ATK.COM >Subject: Re: Ground Contral q&a > >about the ground control upgrade: >> Do you know details, such as $cost, how easy to do? >> There might be some 1.x units, (I 've seen some >> store demo units) that might be had rather cheaply >> and then upgraded for less than a new ground control. >> > >from an exchange i had with dmc's josh fiden: > >>the ground control upgrade is $20+3.50(shipping). unless you're in >>california, of course, inwhich case you must add $1.65 for tax. >> >>you can mail us a check for $23.50. or you can call or e-mail a visa or >>mastercard number, including expiration and the name as it appears on the >>card. don't forget to include your shipping address. > >their number is 818 991 3881 (you won't find it in the manual). >address: >5312-J Derry Avenue >Agoura Hills, CA 91301 < So if you can get a version 1.x clearance or demo for under 200 plus the upgrade would be about the same cost as a new one. So if you can talk a salesman into giving you a demo 1.x for around 150 bucks you'd have a worthwhile deal. I priced a new 1.x at 209 so that would not match a new 2.4 at 221 > > >there's also a memory upgrade (!) for another 20 bucks, that lets you store >360 patches! (each patch can send out up to 8 simultaneous program change >messages to 8 devices, and can be given an alphanumeric name). > >trev: the pedals feel like a slightly more robust version of a DOD stomp >box - i like it, you can feel them "tap". > >digital music corp has a web page which was pretty minimal last time i >looked: >http://www.voodoolab.com > >james < Thanks for the info and the web link, James I'll check it out. later >John > From ???@??? Fri Mar 21 02:31:12 1997 >From kflint Thu Mar 20 22:54:27 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w7yDa-0005bF-00; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 22:54:26 -0800 Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 01:50:48 -0500 (EST) From: Aviansongs@aol.com Message-ID: <970321015048_1614693001@emout20.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Living on a rock Resent-Message-ID: <"vg4wT.A.dDF.GAjMz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2333 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 22:54:26 -0800 X-UIDL: 6b42e3248e485e7bfae43b9bd0ac70fd In a message dated 97-03-18 16:12:11 EST, you write: > I believe any MIDI instrument that is capable of microtonal scales will > handle just intonation. Many Yamaha synths have this feature, as do > Ensoniq samplers (minus the Mirage). Actually there is a third party OS for the Mirage that utilizes Just Intonation. Marc From ???@??? Fri Mar 21 02:31:14 1997 >From kflint Thu Mar 20 23:39:07 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w7yuo-0000KP-00; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 23:39:06 -0800 Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 23:38:02 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: mgsam@wave.net Subject: RE: JamMan pedal for free (almost) Resent-Message-ID: <"aO2fND.A.3I.QqjMz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2334 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 23:39:06 -0800 X-UIDL: f722844fe3c1c1378076df0dc4af3f6d Thanks John... Yeah, I'm definitly interested in going midi...so your pedal was not a big deal. Best, Kevin From ???@??? Sun Mar 23 10:36:28 1997 >From kflint Sat Mar 22 15:45:37 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w8aTf-0006bO-00; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 15:45:35 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 15:39:00 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: echoplex manual Resent-Message-ID: <"Gc9LeD.A.6AG.f5GNz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2335 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 15:45:35 -0800 X-UIDL: 6971252eaed1837ede82a53cf0021ad9 Lot's of people have asked me if I could somehow get them a copy of the echoplex manual. I've put the project off forever, but I've finally done it! I guess enough people finally asked for the realization to dawn that doing it would take less time than telling everyone that I will be doing it someday.... Plus, Travis Hartnett got me thinking about it, since he is currently working on a project to bring us the Vortex and Jamman manuals as well. Plus, some old ads from guitar player and a bunch of reviews. That should be a great addition to site, and I thank Travis in advance for taking this on! The plex manual is a pdf file, and is linked from the echoplex page on Looper's Delight: http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tools/echoplex/echoplex.html enjoy.... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Mar 23 10:36:32 1997 >From kflint Sun Mar 23 00:14:21 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w8iQ0-0004AB-00; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 00:14:20 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970323000954.007fb6e0@pure.pureatria.com> X-Sender: sechevar@pure.pureatria.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 00:10:03 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Sean Echevarria Subject: SF Bay Area mixer mods? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"hOZgYB.A.5yD.3WONz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2336 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 00:14:20 -0800 X-UIDL: 4b136034242a595ea06a00d335db3de5 Anybody know of anyone that can do mixer modifications? I have a Roland M-240. It has 3 post-fader sends and 1 pre/post switchable send. I'd like the 3 post-fader sends to be pre-fader or switchable with the fourth send. From ???@??? Sun Mar 23 10:36:48 1997 >From kflint Sun Mar 23 04:41:52 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w8mau-0002pn-00; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 04:41:52 -0800 Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 04:39:12 -0800 (PST) From: Stew Benedict Subject: Re: echoplex manual To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"W86dVC.A.ulC.3RSNz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2337 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 04:41:52 -0800 X-UIDL: 292d7fa1c325d3ce2221e3897c439b12 I don't know how far Travis is on the vortex manual project. But I've got a scanned version I did while back for another looper who had one with no manual. I don't want to get into any copyright problems with Lexicon (Thoughts Greg?), but I could make this available. Stew Benedict From ???@??? Sun Mar 23 10:36:52 1997 >From kflint Sun Mar 23 09:32:06 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w8r7m-0002fx-00; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 09:32:06 -0800 Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 12:26:32 -0500 (EST) From: PainPete@aol.com Message-ID: <970323122632_-1102874806@emout16.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: New Roland Guitar Synth - Reactions? Resent-Message-ID: <"UlYG0D.A.5SC.KgWNz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2338 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 09:32:06 -0800 X-UIDL: ce887d21cb858b410ad0be34f0c4ea03 ( Sorry I'm missing the model # ) - Has anyone heard this unit? I've heard that it actually builds waveforms upon the signal of the guitar itself, no simple triggering (I am not speaking within my expertise here, so forgive me if this is wrong somehow). I guess it uses the new physical modeling approach. Would anyone care to venture an opinion? (I ask because I'm waiting for the ultimate guitar synth to do loops with!) From ???@??? Sun Mar 23 10:36:58 1997 >From kflint Sun Mar 23 10:07:06 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w8rfd-0004A4-00; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 10:07:05 -0800 X-Sender: efisch@artnet.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 10:01:13 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: efisch@artnet.net (Eric R. Fischer) Subject: Upgrade??? Resent-Message-ID: <"voUzeB.A.oqD.kAXNz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2339 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 10:07:05 -0800 X-UIDL: 5585cd08f904193d35cbaa43fef0e123 What a great web page! I did the resistor mod for the Echoplex I/O circuit and it works great. Does anyone have any info on when the Echoplex software upgrade will be available? The polyester salesman I talked to at the NAMM show had NO clue. The gate on the input is driving me nuts and I'm hoping the upgrade will solve this. I'm also curious as to whether or not there will be any real time midi control over delay time (specifically for pitch shifting loops) in this or future upgrades. Feel free to email me directly. Thanks for your time - Eric R. Fischer L.A. Ca From ???@??? Sun Mar 23 14:56:03 1997 >From kflint Sun Mar 23 13:01:04 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w8uNz-0004RC-00; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 13:01:04 -0800 Posted-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 21:56:50 +0100 (MET) Sender: rob@pi.net Message-ID: <333598D4.6F1501B3@pi.net> Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 21:55:48 +0100 From: Robert van der Kamp X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; Linux 2.0.27 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: New Roland Guitar Synth - Reactions? References: <970323122632_-1102874806@emout16.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"CVmCoD.A.Y8D.HlZNz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2340 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 13:01:04 -0800 X-UIDL: 7cc9c87e838977a5129f239bd0a0e4e4 PainPete@aol.com wrote: > > ( Sorry I'm missing the model # ) - Has anyone heard this unit? I've heard > that it actually builds waveforms upon the signal of the guitar itself, no > simple triggering (I am not speaking within my expertise here, so forgive me > if this is wrong somehow). I guess it uses the new physical modeling > approach. Would anyone care to venture an opinion? > > (I ask because I'm waiting for the ultimate guitar synth to do loops with!) Hi, I guess you're talking about the VG-8, an relatively expensive unit using Rolands new COSM technology. I never heared it, though. They say its *very* fast indeed. Robert From ???@??? Sun Mar 23 14:56:05 1997 >From kflint Sun Mar 23 13:04:10 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w8uQx-0004i8-00; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 13:04:07 -0800 Posted-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 22:01:17 +0100 (MET) Sender: rob@pi.net Message-ID: <333599F2.2B772B30@pi.net> Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 22:00:34 +0100 From: Robert van der Kamp X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; Linux 2.0.27 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: New on list Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"mo_YIB.A.qNE.DpZNz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2341 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 13:04:07 -0800 X-UIDL: 820be844b19c1ba340bbe29b65f0e36b Hi all, My name is Robert van der Kamp, I'm from Holland and I just suscribed on the list. I *never* did any looping, but I promise you this will change. :) I'm about to buy me an Echoplex (seems like the best choice?), and I was wondering if there any tricky details to keep in mind when buying a (used) model. Will I always be able to do software updates (which is great, btw), or do I need some modern model? (Don't even know if there *are* any different models). Thanks, Robert From ???@??? Sun Mar 23 14:56:07 1997 >From kflint Sun Mar 23 13:04:16 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w8uR5-0004iv-00; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 13:04:15 -0800 Posted-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 22:01:25 +0100 (MET) Sender: rob@pi.net Message-ID: <333599FC.661AF86F@pi.net> Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 22:00:44 +0100 From: Robert van der Kamp X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; Linux 2.0.27 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: New on list Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"OilYvD.A.FQE.cpZNz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2342 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 13:04:15 -0800 X-UIDL: eb687d15532fadd437408a3ca4b0e39e Hi all, My name is Robert van der Kamp, I'm from Holland and I just suscribed to the list. I *never* did any looping, but I promise you this will change. :) I'm about to buy me an Echoplex (seems like the best choice?), and I was wondering if there any tricky details to keep in mind when buying a (used) model. Will I always be able to do software updates (which is great, btw), or do I need some modern model? (Don't even know if there *are* any different models). Thanks, Robert From ???@??? Sun Mar 23 14:56:13 1997 >From kflint Sun Mar 23 14:32:54 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w8vop-00015H-00; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 14:32:51 -0800 Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 17:29:51 -0500 (EST) From: KelRey@aol.com Message-ID: <970323172950_-670543107@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: New Roland Guitar Synth - Reactions? Resent-Message-ID: <"96sEtC.A.x2.g8aNz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2343 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 14:32:51 -0800 X-UIDL: 8147a7e8b924b7929a0609069a191d0b I have a VG-8 and really like it. It not only gets close to emulations of other guitars and speaker combinations but it can create its own unique sounds. It works on taking the vibrations from the string rather than midi info. For more info go to Rolands page. Kelly From ???@??? Sun Mar 23 17:55:21 1997 >From kflint Sun Mar 23 16:34:30 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w8xiV-0006nm-00; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 16:34:27 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 16:28:58 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: New on list Resent-Message-ID: <"_zNhtD.A.SQG.VucNz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2344 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 16:34:27 -0800 X-UIDL: 3ea75108acf9a36a8c53adf748b14a19 >Hi all, > >My name is Robert van der Kamp, I'm from Holland and >I just suscribed on the list. I *never* did any looping, >but I promise you this will change. :) Welcome Robert! > >I'm about to buy me an Echoplex (seems like the best choice?), >and I was wondering if there any tricky details to keep in >mind when buying a (used) model. Will I always be able to do >software updates (which is great, btw), or do I need some modern >model? (Don't even know if there *are* any different models). Well, for looping, you want to be sure you are getting the Oberheim Echoplex Digital Pro, and not the old tape based Echoplex delay unit from the early 70's. Sometimes when you are buying used it's hard to tell which one the seller has. There is only one model of the Oberheim Echoplex. You will be able to do software updates to it as long as there is someone making software for it, and at the moment, someone is... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Mar 23 17:55:23 1997 >From kflint Sun Mar 23 17:00:53 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w8y82-0000SQ-00; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 17:00:50 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: VG-8 (was New Roland Guitar Synth - Reactions?) Message-ID: <19970323.175926.3926.1.zenchi@juno.com> References: <970323122632_-1102874806@emout16.mail.aol.com> <333598D4.6F1501B3@pi.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.15 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-5,7,9-10,12-20,22,24,26,28-30,32,34,36-38,40, 42-43,45,47-51 From: zenchi@juno.com (Robert L Williams) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 19:58:20 EST Resent-Message-ID: <"UoeaHC.A.bU.lHdNz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2345 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 17:00:50 -0800 X-UIDL: 59375c729779cf40eb468a52a4b0cde0 On Sun, 23 Mar 1997 21:55:48 +0100 Robert van der Kamp writes: >PainPete@aol.com wrote: >> ( Sorry I'm missing the model # ) - Has anyone heard this unit? I've >>heard that it actually builds waveforms upon the signal of the guitar >>itself, no simple triggering (I am not speaking within my expertise here, so >>forgive me if this is wrong somehow). I guess it uses the new physical modeling >> approach. Would anyone care to venture an opinion? >> (I ask because I'm waiting for the ultimate guitar synth to do loops with!) > >Hi, >I guess you're talking about the VG-8, an relatively expensive >unit using Rolands new COSM technology. I never heard it, though. >They say its *very* fast indeed. >Robert > > Definitely speaking of the VG-8. I have heard it (on the demo CD) and played it. I like it so much, I'm trading or selling most of my rig to get one. The distortions are a little buzzy and not very open, but usable. This is based on playing in a music store, so with tweezing I'm sure the presets can be improved on. The only other thing I don't like is the lack of MIDI control. It caught my attention because of the ability to tune each string over a +/- 1 oct range, the multiple guitar/pickup models and the Harmonic Restructure Modeling (HRM). There is a recent upgrade which adds new guitar, pickup,and amp models as well as a few new control features. I plan to use some unreplaceable pedals in the straight guitar loop and run the VG-8 outputs into a Vortex and stereo mic pre (any suggestions?) to feed a p.a. I have an extra copy of the demo cd that I'll give up for postage and a cassette of original music. BTW, is anyone interested in starting a tape tree? And what's happening with the CD? Robert Williams DERISION From ???@??? Sun Mar 23 19:09:03 1997 >From kflint Sun Mar 23 18:02:49 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w8z60-0003jZ-00; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 18:02:48 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 17:55:09 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: echoplex manual/vortex&jamman manual Resent-Message-ID: <"dLH8wB.A.3SD.J_dNz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2346 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 18:02:48 -0800 X-UIDL: 3dc4a0dff6cde0cfe678c64305d526e4 At 4:39 AM 3/23/97, Stew Benedict wrote: >I don't know how far Travis is on the vortex manual project. But I've >got a scanned version I did while back for another looper who had one >with no manual. I don't want to get into any copyright problems with >Lexicon (Thoughts Greg?), but I could make this available. > >Stew Benedict Why don't you two collaborate on it? If you guys can manage to get it into a pdf file that is not unreasonably large, that would be perfect. The best way to do that is with the original files, rather than from a scan. Hey Greg, any chance Lexicon would let us use the original manual files to make nice digitized versions for the Looper's Delight site? Also, is it ok to put them up there? (I can't imagine why it wouldn't be ok, since it would only be helping you guys out. Might even reduce the customer service call volume a bit, huh?) kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Mar 23 19:09:04 1997 >From kflint Sun Mar 23 18:06:58 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w8zA1-000419-00; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 18:06:57 -0800 Message-ID: <3335E175.6C06@epix.net> Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 21:05:41 -0500 From: verner Reply-To: verner@epix.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: New Roland Guitar Synth Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Utp0-.A._pD.eFeNz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2347 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 18:06:57 -0800 X-UIDL: bfc4f27b490c8690263b6c27c5d4ea4a Glad there was mention of the Roland Guitar synth - GR-30. I'm currently reviewing one for Recording magazine. I've only had a chance to work with it a few times, but it's very nice. Looks just like the previous one, the GR-09. Roland has worked on the tracking and it rarely glitches! It's very clean. Response time is very good. Roland also has included an arpeggiator and harmonist. And there are a ton of sounds (more than the GR09 including the expansion board). Even better is that the price is very reasonable - I think it lists for $895. Sounds are good too. Needless to say, I like it. Anyone interested can email me for Recording's publication date, probably around July. J. Arif Verner Infinite Sound http://www.epix.net/~verner/ PS - My Web Site has other tech articles I have published - including a bunch on guitar synthesis. Check it out! PPS - By the way, synths are great for looping too! Has anyone tried it? It's wonderful, but it really should be in stereo. I used synths loops on my last album using the Yamaha D5000 (a very interesting box!). From ???@??? Sun Mar 23 21:09:08 1997 >From kflint Sun Mar 23 19:44:47 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w90ge-00015Z-00; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 19:44:44 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 19:38:44 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: wake up! Resent-Message-ID: <"GwCZC.A.R1.PgfNz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2348 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 19:44:44 -0800 X-UIDL: 690e1488143314d746b7497f2f6f769e Almost forgot to reply to this one: At 11:31 AM 3/14/97, MiqSk8@aol.com wrote: >i've noticed a lot of silence on several lists this week... > >well i finally got my manual, but have had zero time to implement. did manage >to find 4megs of memory out in the garage to up my plex to 50 sec, it's gonna >be fun. > >i have to agree about the pedal- so far the best luck i've had recording has >been to hold it down the entire time and then up to end. in stocking feet >sitting down! kinda surprised by this-is this sensitivity level common? Using a pedal with a looper just takes some practice, I think. You have to learn to tap in time with loop you want to create. When I've demo'ed the plex to people and let them try it, I've often been surprised at how many don't realize that the taps to start and stop the loop are musical events, and must be in time. A lot of people tap the record and start the loop, and then start playing some time after. Or they will stop playing the phrase they want to loop, and then tap the record switch to end the loop after a leisurely pause. Practice it a bit, you'll get the hang of it. >another random thing flew by me as well-kim, matthias, was there a reason for >either a 16mb limit on 30 pin simms or not using 72 pin simms? silly minds >want to know. I don't think 72 pin simms were even available when the echoplex hardware was designed. Or maybe they were brand new. Is that a good reason? An amazing thing to realize: when the plex first came out, 4MB SIMMs cost about $200 each. So at the time it cost $800 to upgrade an echoplex to the full 200 seconds. As you might imagine, there were not a lot of people willing to do that! (although a lot of users did, actually) So that is one reason for the 16MB limit. At the time, it was extravagantly large. Another reason is technical, since the address space of a 68000 just isn't nearly as big as newer processors. We probably could have worked around that somehow, but there didn't seem to be much point. The same 4MB simms are now available in my local computer/electronics store (fry's) for $17. So fully upgrading an echoplex now costs less than $80! Amazing. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Mar 23 22:49:55 1997 >From kflint Sun Mar 23 21:38:22 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w92Sa-0007XY-00; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 21:38:20 -0800 Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 21:35:53 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: finley@ecst.csuchico.edu (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: finley@ecst.csuchico.edu (Matthew F. McCabe) Subject: Help!!! Audio software! Resent-Message-ID: <"Epn_jD.A.f6G.ALhNz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2349 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 21:38:20 -0800 X-UIDL: ac5fb83b707e3f680faad2c034e380b5 Hello! I need a Shareware program for the Mac to convert the sample rate of audio files recorded with Logic Audio (Sound Designer type) *without* changing the pitch. Any ideas???? I'm trying to upload audio files (loops!!) to my web page and files sampled at 44.1kHz are just too large. Thanks! Matt From ???@??? Mon Mar 24 08:44:47 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 24 06:47:32 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w9B23-00033H-00; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 06:47:31 -0800 Message-Id: <9703241436.AA29939@beryllium.lexicon.com> Priority: urgent Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:07:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: RE: echoplex manual To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V4.00a)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"rIJwCD.A.OiC.SJpNz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2350 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 06:47:31 -0800 X-UIDL: bd9f4dc140908fc148113928ad869a95 Stew said:"I don't want to get into any copyright problems with Lexicon (Thoughts Greg?), but I could make this available." I doubt that there would be a problem as long as no profit is involved. I will look into this with the folks in charge and get back to you. Best regards, Greg Hogan Lexicon Customer Service Phone 617-280-0372 FAX 617-280-0499 From ???@??? Mon Mar 24 21:05:49 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 24 11:04:25 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w9F2c-0000up-00; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:04:22 -0800 Message-Id: <9703241857.AA02407@beryllium.lexicon.com> Priority: urgent Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:47:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: RE: echoplex manual/vortex&jamman manual To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V4.00a)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"_M-BKB.A.oY.P8sNz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2358 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:04:22 -0800 X-UIDL: da68fda72374bc2751e84afa80722fea about getting the Vortex manual online Kim said:"Hey Greg, any chance Lexicon would let us use the original manual files to make nice digitized versions for the Looper's Delight site? Also, is it ok to put them up there? (I can't imagine why it wouldn't be ok, since it would only be helping you guys out. Might even reduce the customer service call volume a bit, huh?)" I'll see what I can do. Best regards, Greg Hogan Lexicon Customer Service Phone 617-280-0372 FAX 617-280-0499 From ???@??? Mon Mar 24 09:46:22 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 24 08:48:17 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w9Cut-0003K0-00; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 08:48:15 -0800 Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:43:39 -0500 (EST) From: Adam Levin To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Philly loop show reviews? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"_rBhRC.A.5wC.O9qNz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2351 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 08:48:15 -0800 X-UIDL: 36681e2168061b88db08b43951f39b3b Does anyone who attended the Philly loop show care to share their impressions of the show? By impressions of the show, I don't mean: "TwangWooooWOOOOOOwOOOOOoooooBEEEEEPTwangWooooWOOOOOOwOOOOO..." 8) -Adam --- "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue, out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one becomes a Hearer." - Chandrakirti From ???@??? Mon Mar 24 09:46:24 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 24 08:57:28 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w9D3n-00045i-00; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 08:57:27 -0800 Date: 24 Mar 97 11:47:36 EST From: To: Subject: the loopy stylings of Giles-Kreuter Message-ID: <970324164736_702420.204300_BHD44-27@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"l9C_TC.A.ycD._ErNz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2352 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 08:57:27 -0800 X-UIDL: 5938c0d414febd9de41eedf9f09de971 ---------------------------- Forwarded with Changes --------------------------- From: Russell Gorton at CreatSvc-Ada Date: 3/24/97 10:28AM To: INTERNET:dsclmc@ix.netcom.com at CSERVE To: INTERNET:scottb@pmeasuring.com at CSERVE To: INTERNET:Jsteve00@aol.com at CSERVE To: INTERNET:tbalx8548k@aol.com at CSERVE To: INTERNET:rahl_s@supplytech.com at CSERVE cc: Robert Barney at CommAdmin-Ada Subject: Giles-Kreuter ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Twe weeks ago I took delivery of an Echoplex Digital Pro (4 Mb/ 50.3 sec). It is by far the best piece of gear (meaning: most dramatic new impact on overall rig) in the rack. The Oberheim made its public debut last night to a surprisingly populated room at Planet Gong coffeehouse on the old North end of downtown Grand Rapids, MI. The venue is a very low-key place; some Tuesday nights they watch progressive videos (i.e. Yes, Genesis, Gong, Hawkwind) on the big-screen, Thursdays is Japanimation, Fridays is techno, there are rotating themed nights for movie buffs, etc. Typical 90's coffeehouse retro-style of rumpus room furniture, board games, etc. Owner is die-hard old Trekker who is hiding a Juno-8 in the basement. Anyway, my comrades Jameson and Joe dubbed our band "Giles-Kreuter" and we schlepped everything over there. Sound was provided by stereo mix from our Tascam 688 Midistudio (20x8 bus mixer/8-track cassette recording desk), which was OK by me 'cause I can control levels of _everything_. I think loopers enjoy running their own sound...is this true? Outputs ran on a looooooooooooooonnng RCA patch cord to the house stereo, which is a big surround-sound receiver running a 5-speaker system (essentially a home theater setup) -- but it worked well for the size room and ambience. Did I say ambience? Well, that's what we were there for. Ambient loops. Straight up, no chaser. "Uh...are you guys kind of like...uh...industrial?" "No." Anatomy of looping-friendly setup: Inputs Mixer Effects Loops chan. Korg Polysix 1 Korg monoSynth 2 Wavestation L 3 aux send 1 --> Oberheim Echoplex Wavestation R 4 eff ret 1-2 <-- loops Condenser mic 5 aux send 2 --> Korg A3 <- Les(s) Paul Akai Tube mic 6 eff ret 3 <-- effects <- fretless bass SM-57 mic 7 Effects ret 4 8 ---> always sent to aux 1 for looping effected Pre-taped tracks 9 signals A crazy set-up and certainly cordfuck all over the place, but it worked beautifully. Notes: Korg analog synths were crucial for creating the Klaus Schulze-esque backdrop of swirling oscillating waveforms. We improvised a crude note-holding feature on the monoSynth, namely, shoving a matchbook between keys so it holds the switch closed. That frees up the keyboard-playing hand to concentrate on wave modulation (knob-twiddling) while the other hand lights your cigarette. Korg Polysix (a grand old keyboard, 6-oscillators and a zillion fun knobs to play with) often locked into very slow arpeggiated chord pattern, cutoff knob amply rotated. Nice to see these features have been brought back on the awesome new Roland J?-8000 model synth. Microphones were variously deployed for capturing (for loops, of course!) harmonica, egg shakers, shortwave radio, Skeletor toy microphone, throat gargling, tin whistle, Honeycomb Hideout code-tapper toy, etc. One of the Korg A3 effects outputs went back into a main mixer channel, so I could then send it selectively to the Echoplex loop. The other output came back into the effects return path, for straight signal of guitar (cheap Les Paul copy) and bass, which were both preamped and effected only by the A3 (we were really leaning on that A3, but it sure beats luggin' separate, dedicated guitar/bass amplifiers) Pre-taped tracks included direct-from-television samples of the guy who sells getrichquick schemes ("by placing thousands of TINY classified ads in newspapers ALL OVER the country, YOU TOO can make MILLIONS of dollars, JUST LIKE I have...") -- looped 50 secs by Echoplex and burned to a tape track earlier that day -- and other nonsense. Guitar/bass featured the magic of the E-bow. Great for creating hollow drone loops, preferably with a big, thick, "1964 BAC-111 taxiing for take-off" flange ladled over. Best part of this band is 1) being able to get up and chat with audience during show, i.e., leave the command center of mixing board, keyboards, effects rack, pile of mics and noisemaker shit, and walk around a little; while loops, samples, and arpeggiators fire away.... and 2) that GREAT feeling you get when: Slacker/choade kid walks over at that moment: So, are, like, you....um...guys gonna play? Joe: Can you say that again? Slacker/choade kid: Oh...is this shit all on and making that noise? Oberheim: "Oh...is this shit all on and making that noise?.....Oh...is this shit all on and making that noise....Oh...is this shit all on and making that noise?....Oh...is this...." Yes, it's certainly wonderful when you're _that_ close to performance art that people aren't even sure you're making music. Validation was when we finished and a techno/trace CD went on the stereo. People thought it was STILL us. Somehow, inexplicably, it was worth moving all the gear. Hell, they even wanted us to come back! And we even got free coffee...wow. At least it keeps the smoke out of my apartment, for a change. Rt "_loving_ that Echoplex...it's the chiz" Gorton From ???@??? Mon Mar 24 09:46:27 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 24 09:37:59 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w9Dgu-0000i2-00; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:37:52 -0800 Posted-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:29:48 +0100 (MET) Sender: rob@pi.net Message-ID: <3336B9E0.28020A0F@pi.net> Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:29:04 +0100 From: Robert van der Kamp X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; Linux 2.0.27 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: New on list References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_unV1B.A.kSH.TorNz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2353 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:37:52 -0800 X-UIDL: 37bf796d3d32764038fe9fc866ae526a Kim Flint wrote: > > >Hi all, > > > >My name is Robert van der Kamp, I'm from Holland and > >I just suscribed on the list. I *never* did any looping, > >but I promise you this will change. :) > > Welcome Robert! :) > > > > >I'm about to buy me an Echoplex (seems like the best choice?), > >and I was wondering if there any tricky details to keep in > >mind when buying a (used) model. Will I always be able to do > >software updates (which is great, btw), or do I need some modern > >model? (Don't even know if there *are* any different models). > > Well, for looping, you want to be sure you are getting the Oberheim > Echoplex Digital Pro, and not the old tape based Echoplex delay unit from > the early 70's. Sometimes when you are buying used it's hard to tell which > one the seller has. There is only one model of the Oberheim Echoplex. You > will be able to do software updates to it as long as there is someone > making software for it, and at the moment, someone is... Oops! Didn't know about the tape based plex. Good tip! :) Good thing, these updates. Thanks, Robert > kim > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Kim Flint | Looper's Delight > kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html > http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Mon Mar 24 10:25:28 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 24 10:19:07 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w9EKl-0004S1-00; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:19:03 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Ott, John" To: "'Loopers Delight'" Subject: Mixer suggestion Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:04:16 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 Encoding: 43 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"6txUVD.A.hQD.ONsNz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2355 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:19:04 -0800 X-UIDL: be31951de6bc316ff6f75b6eeb665ccf > I plan to use some unreplaceable pedals in the straight guitar loop and run the VG-8 outputs into a Vortex and stereo mic pre (any suggestions?) to feed a p.a. < I use a Mackie 1202VLZ, love it. My guitar signal goes to an Digitech RP-6 and I use it's cabinet simulator to send a stereo signal to the Mackie. My JamMan is on the Aux 1 out/return loop. Then I use the Aux 2 out to feed a Fender amp. Tape out and in go to my hard disk recording system (Mac with Deck II) Then the main outs got to the PA amplifier It also has a headphone and control room send with a fader. The aux returns have faders also. I also bring in two keyboards and microphones to the Mackie. (It has four XLR inputs with preamps for the first four channels (mono) also each channel has line level 1/4 jack inputs, The last four channels are stereo line/level (no preamps) 1/4 inch inputs) The Mackie was recommended to me by a trumpet player friend who likes the preamps. They are sweet but I like the Mackie for its flexibility. I can control how much of each channel I send to the JamMan with the aux 1 send faders on each channel. Each channel also has three band eq. It's rack mountable if you need that. I'm using mine in a home studio so It's on a desk next to Mac. You can get one for about 310-350 bucks if you check around. I love this mixer. good luck john John Ott Information Technology Manager Alliant Techsystems, Inc. Advanced Technology Applications 401 Defense Highway Annapolis MD 21401 (410) 266 1743 From ???@??? Mon Mar 24 21:05:48 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 24 11:02:02 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w9F0E-0000fV-00; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:01:54 -0800 Message-Id: <199703241849.NAA08508@acc.haverford.edu> Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:49:16 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: jspeer@haverford.edu Subject: Phila Loop Show big success Resent-Message-ID: <"d5RlU.A.08G.O1sNz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2356 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:01:54 -0800 X-UIDL: 0bcf3e7d59ca28dbaf420e5777c0ae33 Hi folks, The Mid-Atlantic Loop Show, held this past Saturday, 3/22, was a resounding success! The four acts thoroughly entranced the appreciative and eager audience, and a bigger night of entertainment could not have been found anywhere else that night, and certainly not for 5 bucks. Speaking for myself, I had the greatest time listening to the performers, who came through in a big way that night, living up to and exceeding all expectations. I'm reluctant to provide a review of the music, since I'm hardly a disinterested party. If anyone out there from the list attended the show, please post your comments, as I'm sure there are many out there (including me) waiting to hear. Beyond the sheer beauty of the music, it was simply one of those nights where everything goes right. Even I hadn't anticipated the huge volume of equipment which was loaded into and stacked up in the coffeehouse (let's just say that a lot of oxygen was displaced), and it was a true miracle that the stage changes-over worked out so smoothly and efficiently. The audience was happy, the performers seemed happy to me, the venue owners were ecstatic. One important point is that we proved that such a thing is logically possible and commercially plausible. The LionFish owners would like to have more Loop Shows there in the future, so I can tell you all that, yes, I will likely be organizing a Loop Show II in the summer or fall. Until then I'll do my best to hook you loop acts up with other Philly venues and promoters. For those of you trying to get gigs in this town I hope you'll be able to point to the success at the LionFish in support of your efforts. There are at least a handful of people for whom this will mean something, and I am proud to have been a part of this small step forward. Big thanks to everyone who performed, attended or otherwise provided advise and support! One way or the other I look forward to hearing a lot more looped music in this town. Jim ********************** My Town: Philadelphia! From ???@??? Mon Mar 24 21:05:40 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 24 11:01:31 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w9Ezm-0000ca-00; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:01:26 -0800 Message-ID: <3336CF28.365B@easyway.net> Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:59:52 -0500 From: Jonathan Brainin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b2 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Philly loop show reviews? X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"veoWu.A.vCH.F2sNz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2357 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:01:26 -0800 X-UIDL: 14e0d4eccfd8c57c7157072dce6b3eb1 Adam Levin wrote: Does anyone who attended the Philly loop show care to share their impressions of the show? By impressions of the show, I don't mean: "TwangWooooWOOOOOOwOOOOOoooooBEEEEEPTwangWooooWOOOOOOwOOOOO..." 8) -Adam --- "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue, out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one becomes a Hearer." - Chandrakirti Well, it sounds to me like you already heard about the show!!! Anyway, I'll give it a whirl. The evening started with Emergence of Man, who feature Paul Mimlisch on looped Chapman stick accompanied by percussion as well as guitar and flute. EoM's performance was very tight and managed to avoid chaos by limiting the looping to only one instrument. Compositionally, EoM made nice modern ambient music. Although no one in EoM is a crafty, they had the "craftiest" sound of the evening while still able to get beyond Fripp! The next performance was by Fingerpaint, a duo of crafty guitarists. Their sound was perhaps the most suprising of the evening. I was expecting to hear a major Fripp influence from Fingerpaint but was treated to an aural dissertation on the history of Krautrock. Their very capable performance was quite inspirational. So was the opportunity to check out the stuff in their racks. After their performance, Fingerpaint sold their cassette for $5 each. It was an excellent purchase that sounded even better the day after the event. The third performer was Charles Cohen was played a Buchla analog synth as well as an EH 16 scond digital delay and other sundry devices. WOW! Talk about getting beyond Fripp, Charles trancends all of the academic electronic music I've heard. Morton Subotnik, Gordon Mumma, Terry Riley--whoever. Charles blew them all away. His music is decidedly non-commercial, and might even qualify for the difficult listening hour but it is engagingly beautiful music. The fourth act was the group Accidents will Happen. They opened with an extended bass solo that was effected and looped (I think). The drummer was the next to join in followed finally by the guitarist. As things evolved, it became apparent the this was not your usual looping performance. Here the loops were only part of the whole. The music could have worked well without any looping. I felt that AwH sounded like a cross between Polytown, Cream and the Ginger Baker trio (with Frisell and Haden.) I think that the evening was quite successful as were all of the performances. Everyone had a great time and all performers acquited themselves quite favorably. From ???@??? Mon Mar 24 21:06:36 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 24 11:46:22 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w9FhF-0004wr-00; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:46:21 -0800 Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:39:46 -0500 (EST) From: MiqSk8@aol.com Message-ID: <970324143932_80456196@emout06.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: wake up! Resent-Message-ID: <"tA8xQB.A.XHE.KjtNz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2359 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:46:21 -0800 X-UIDL: 1c01011123c4112abb31da2c5a3f5950 In a message dated 97-03-23 22:43:40 EST, you write: << >i have to agree about the pedal- so far the best luck i've had recording has >been to hold it down the entire time and then up to end. in stocking feet >sitting down! kinda surprised by this-is this sensitivity level common? Using a pedal with a looper just takes some practice, I think. You have to learn to tap in time with loop you want to create. When I've demo'ed the plex to people and let them try it, I've often been surprised at how many don't realize that the taps to start and stop the loop are musical events, and must be in time. A lot of people tap the record and start the loop, and then start playing some time after. Or they will stop playing the phrase they want to loop, and then tap the record switch to end the loop after a leisurely pause. >> thanks for remembering me! what i'm talking about is the sensitivity of the pedal itself-one tap acts as 2 and i get a loop .1 seconds long! i'd be able to deal with the timing if the button weren't so sensitive. any tips would be great. From ???@??? Mon Mar 24 10:25:27 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 24 10:18:26 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w9EK6-0004OJ-00; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:18:22 -0800 Message-ID: <3336D88A.E15@interaccess.com> Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:39:54 -0800 From: Jim Coker X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Help!!! Audio software! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cR0ui.A.ZHD.uLsNz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2354 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:18:22 -0800 X-UIDL: 842deda7276cd889d9f3db33960f795b Matthew F. McCabe wrote: > > Hello! > > I need a Shareware program for the Mac to convert the sample rate of audio > files recorded with Logic Audio (Sound Designer type) *without* changing > the pitch. Any ideas???? > > I'm trying to upload audio files (loops!!) to my web page and files sampled > at 44.1kHz are just too large. > > Thanks! > > Matt Well, you could use Sound Designer II to do it, i think, but that's not shareware. Or a hack I just thought of is to connect the mac's sound out ports to the sound in ports and record from there at a lower rate. For shareware, try sound machine. Look for it at shareware.com. jim From ???@??? Mon Mar 24 21:07:45 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 24 12:41:01 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w9GY5-0002Hb-00; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:40:57 -0800 Message-ID: <3336D912.7915@nyfac.com> Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:42:10 -0500 From: nyfac X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Had some JamMan weirdness happen yesterday... References: <970324143932_80456196@emout06.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ODbWlD.A.NXB.QTuNz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2360 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:40:57 -0800 X-UIDL: 30013a4ec3ec9041c76db765e586248c For the first time last night, I ran my JamMan through the effects loop of my amp rather than feeding it from the pre-amp out and plugging the output of the JamMan into another amp or PA and strange things happened... I would hit an exceptionally loud note (in echo mode) which would cause the input light to flicker red. Instead of getting the usual obnoxious digital clip, the unit started this weird subatomic clicking sound. I was however dismayed to find that while the clicking could be sped up with the triplet/quarter note echo setting, I could not record onto it, or get my straight signal through the JM (because I am not one to waste an obnoxious sound when I find one). Anyone have this happen to them? Trev From ???@??? Mon Mar 24 21:07:59 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 24 13:33:06 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w9HMV-00073g-00; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:33:03 -0800 Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 16:25:24 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: Phila Loop Show big success Resent-Message-ID: <"S7iytD.A.bEG.OGvNz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2361 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:33:03 -0800 X-UIDL: 19ccab6149d858f4b447f8ed1210bccf As the guitarist in Accidents will Happen I would like everyone on the list to know what a great job Jim did on organizing this event on Saturday in Philly. We enjoyed playing, the crowd, hospitality and trading ideas with the other musicians. It was a gas. From ???@??? Mon Mar 24 21:08:31 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 24 13:44:32 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w9HXY-0000PH-00; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:44:28 -0800 Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:39:19 -0600 (CST) From: Kim Corbet Subject: Re: wake up! To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <970324143932_80456196@emout06.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ni_7mB.A.vNH.QSvNz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2362 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:44:28 -0800 X-UIDL: 22b862b933bae2af095b9ac59af19e5a > in stocking feet sitting down! kinda surprised by this-is this > sensitivity level common? > >Using a pedal with a looper just takes some practice, I think. > what i'm talking about is the sensitivity of the pedal itself > ...i'd be able to deal with the timing if > the button weren't so sensitive. any tips would be great. ...........Interface is so important. I'm not familiar with the plex, but I had to chuckle at the "sit in socks" image because that's exactly what I do with my jamman. But that was before I found the Boomerang. As luck would have it, I play in a group in Dallas with one of the Cheeses in the Boomerang company (Mike Nelson) and he turned me on to it. Much better control owing to the near no-throw flat switches. (what was Lexicon thinking with these inch-throw black switches? certainly not a real performance environment...and what's up with their mute mode where you come back into the loop who knows where???) Except for a slower sampling rate (cutting out a few highs when I use it with keyboard or percussion as opposed to guitar, bass or trombone) [which allows for loops up to almost 5 minutes in length with max memory], I think the Boomerang is superior to the jamman in every other way, especially in live performance. And it's competitively priced...and, no, I don't get a commission to say any of this. I think it's about half the price of the Oberheim. I AM trying to get all my musician friends to get a boomerang...I think it's that cool. I use it to create horn parts in Rotten Rubber Band (a Texas Swamp Boogie band) and as a more ambient device in various art music (from Fripp/Eno to Cage/Oliveros) style applications. The half/ double speed and reverse on the fly functions can make some swimmingly delicious textures. I guess I like it, huh? From ???@??? Mon Mar 24 21:09:23 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 24 18:28:11 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w9Ly5-0001XO-00; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:28:09 -0800 Message-ID: <333737A7.4EB2@epix.net> Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:25:43 -0500 From: verner Reply-To: verner@epix.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Living on a rock References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"50YVe.A.AKB.NezNz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2364 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:28:09 -0800 X-UIDL: 79c6ee3b9fe95962fe6cdfbd7ff43d49 I have a good friend from Africa who I turned on to the Echoplex - Samite of Uganda (http://www.fcinet.com/samite/). He has 3 albums out with World music. He uses the Echoples for layering kalimbas and voice. It's totally killer! J. Arif Verner Infinite Sound Studio http://www.epix.net/~verner/ Chris Chovit wrote: > > Bobby wrote: > > >hmmmmm, that's a good one kim. from all the enthnomusicology i absorbed > >during my time in school, i would say yes, in the sense that many types of > >asian and "oriental" musics do have a lot of repetition...and can also be > >very mono-chromatic and harmonically static in some ways...Bob Phelps, are > >you up for answering this one??? :-)_ > >bobby devito/lvx nova > > Yes, there seems to be much repetition in music from Asia....but (from what > little I know about it) it seems to me that the performance of the > repetition is very important, perhaps as a meditation. For example, I > can't quite imagine traditional gamelan performers playing their patterns > into looping devices, then sitting back and drinking tea. Perhaps this is > also what is preventing African musicians from embracing these devices. I > mean, African polyrthythms are very repetitive, but I can't picture a > drum/dance ritual to the beat of a looping device.....but then again, you > never know how things will turn out.... From ???@??? Mon Mar 24 21:09:28 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 24 20:32:58 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w9Nuo-0002XN-00; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 20:32:54 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 01:35:25 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: wake up! Resent-Message-ID: <"bCetzB.A.97B.hR1Nz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2365 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 20:32:54 -0800 X-UIDL: 4af651aee8f5998c1dbf64a3a88ff642 Motley wrote: >My band uses a Boomerang to fatten our sound and >add parts since we consist of only guitar bass and percussion. I only >occasionally bring mine out to a gig, but our sound is wed to our bass >player's layered approach to creating a groove. When you do bring it, what do you do to sync it to the bass player's? From ???@??? Mon Mar 24 21:09:29 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 24 20:36:28 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w9NyD-0002p8-00; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 20:36:25 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 01:37:30 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: VW-Mercedes Resent-Message-ID: <"F8yn3.A.pGC.XT1Nz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2366 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 20:36:25 -0800 X-UIDL: 724cad9c51feed13bef0b5d8661b1fb2 >As a long-time JamMan user who has borrowed an Echoplex Pro for the last 3 >months (supposed to go home tomorrow, sob), here's my german car analogy: >The JamMan is a VW bug, simple, easy to work with, cheap, doesn't do a lot, >but does what it does well and predictably, while the Echoplex is a >Mercedes, very elegant design and interface, expensive, but worth it, and >you really have to know how to drive it to get the benefits. > >OK, end of pointless automotive analogies... Not pointless, but are you saying that it is more difficult to drive a Mercedes? I think its is nicer AND easyer. From ???@??? Mon Mar 24 21:09:31 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 24 20:37:59 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w9Nzg-0002yE-00; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 20:37:56 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 01:39:00 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Boomerang: sample time vs. sample rate Resent-Message-ID: <"egz-_.A.LRC.2U1Nz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2367 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 20:37:56 -0800 X-UIDL: 75a3956b2ea6b09634c3483f386b0c79 Dave Mitchell said >...I'd be choosing between having MIDI control >and some extra features (on the Echoplex), and saving $US150 or so ... Have a closer look at these "some extra features" and try to imagine playing. I think they are rather "many fundamental"! Matthias From ???@??? Mon Mar 24 21:44:57 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 24 21:29:36 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w9Ond-0006c0-00; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:29:33 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 02:34:49 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: VW-Mercedes Resent-Message-ID: <"5mPS_B.A.PCG.GJ2Nz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2368 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:29:33 -0800 X-UIDL: f47e75491095b45fd34dcaeeb36f0c76 >... while the Echoplex is a >Mercedes, very elegant design and interface, expensive, but worth it... I should have thanked you for this discription in the first place. Matthias From ???@??? Tue Mar 25 08:54:06 1997 >From kflint Tue Mar 25 03:01:17 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w9Tye-0005Uf-00; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 03:01:16 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 02:53:54 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, matthias@bahianet.com.br From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Boomerang: sample time vs. sample rate Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Resent-Message-ID: <"_ki50B.A.vAF.Q-6Nz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2370 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 03:01:16 -0800 X-UIDL: 0b7835305fe80ef113a4d837a38d87c9 At 7:19 PM 3/25/97, David_Mitchell@HP-Australia-notes1.om.hp.com wrote: >G'day Matthias and everyone else, > >Thanks for your reply. Using the car analogy that's floating around at the >moment, I'm in the position of the VW driver: > >"I've seen those big Mercedes around and they sure look nice, but my 2nd >hand VW cost me $50 and it goes, well, most of the time. It uses more oil >than petrol, it's got 4 bald tyres, it leaks in the rain, but it still gets >me where I'm going sooner or later... Why I should spend $50k on a >Mercedes when all it gives me is some nice leather seats?" Uh, this car analogy is a little out of hand..... The echoplex is not a 1000 times more expensive than a boomerang! I really hate to get into some sort of echoplex vs boomerang war, but we need a little reality here: With full memory expansion and a footpedal, you would pay about $725 for the echoplex. The Boomerang website lists a fully expanded boomerang at $599. If you apply some sort of "street price" discount, I imagine it would drop to about $450 - $500. So that is just $125 - $275 different! And if you don't need a pedal for the echoplex, they are significantly closer in price.... For that extra $125-275, what does the echoplex have that the Boomerang does not? Far better audio quality, an incredibly intuitive and musical interface, a display that shows loop time, multiple numbers, loop numbers, sync points, levels, etc., unlimited overdubs, variable feedback with realtime control, multiply, insert, replace, multiple loops, loop copying, multiple undo's, full midi functionality, a wide variety of synchronization possibilities, (including between echoplexes for loop jams), quantization features, sampler features, rugged internal power supply, etc., etc., etc. Not to mention lots of subtleties that just make it fun and easy to use. The echoplex has a very deep, musical interface and feature set. Everything about the echoplex can be done in realtime musical situations. It has been very carefully crafted and evolved over many years, with input from a wide variety of musicians who have logged thousands and thousands of hours performing with it and it's predecessors, and suggesting refinements. I think this shows, and that is why users love the things. To me, it is well worth the price, and compared to something like an eventide harmonizer, it's downright cheap. Now, I'm not here to knock the boomerang. It is a nifty little device, and it serves a useful purpose in the market as a simpler, less expensive alternative. My main complaint about the Boomerang, believe it or not, is that it is too expensive. In my opinion, the simple feature set and low audio quality do not warrant a price over maybe $150. At a sub $200 price point, it could be a much more successful product. But in the $300-$600 price range, I probably wouldn't buy it. And I'm now 3 cars up the scale from the beat-up VW I was driving a few years ago, so $300-$600 isn't a big deal to me. These days, anything priced over $200 should have full bandwidth audio. The latest digital audio codecs offer stereo in and out in 20 bit resolution at 48khz, come in small little packages, are easy to interface to any processor, and cost less than $5 to a manufacturer. There's really no excuse for low quality digital audio these days, and consumers should demand better. With a 16khz sampling rate, equating to 6-7khz bandwidth at best, the Boomerang is really behind on this. That's where digital audio was about 15 years ago. I don't know why they designed it that way (uh, why did you anyway?), but it is certaily the most critical thing for the Boomerang guys to improve upon! That and bringing the price down would make it a much cooler product, I think. Think about the Jamman: at $200, everyone wanted it..... Oh, and the wall wart absolutely must go!!!! >Having not used anything more powerful than a Boss pedal for looping, the >benefits of the Echoplex just don't seem to me to warrant the extra >expense. Realtime MIDI control seems to be the single big plus as I'm >already using an ART X-15 for controlling other stuff, but a tradeoff is >that at street prices I could just about buy two Boomerangs for the price >of an Echoplex. This would give me the ability to layer two separate loops >on top of each other with realtime control of the volume of each which (I'm >pretty sure) the Echoplex can't do. The Boomerang doesn't offer any synchronization features, so you wouldn't actually be able to use two of them very well....It's simple with the plex of course, the sync features let you hook multiple units up as a multitrack looper. A bit over your VW-scale budget though, I imagine! :-) And really, if multiple loops at once are what you want, you should check out the Akai Remix16. That lets you record 16 loops in real-time and use them in a multi-timbral fashion. A bit limited in other areas, though, but maybe it does what you need. >I don't have any problem with spending extra dollars for a better piece of >gear, but I'm faced with the same decision I had when buying my first >guitar: do I buy the cheap and nasty model, or pay up for something better >when I don't really understand what "better" means? I know NOW that I was >right to spend the extra money, but it was a tough call at the time. That's really the key. Just using a boss pedal, you really don't know what looping can really be about. You have a taste, but until you get into something more sophisticated, you won't really know how important some of the features are. Or how important they are to you, really. To continue with lame analogies, it's the difference between common salt and pepper and Thai curry dishes. If you've only had the former, you'll have a tough time imagining the later..... The echoplex has the kind of depth that you can grow into for years, much like a good musical instrument. If you talk to some of the users who have owned them for a while, you'll see that they are still coming up with new things to do with it, and the echoplex is able to meet their needs as their looping abilities grow and evolve. >What "advanced" features of the Echoplex do you actually use in real life, >and what do you use them for? > >Dave Mitchell > > I think what Matthias was saying, which is important, is that we are not necessarily talking about advanced features. Tapped delay lengths, infinite Overdub, variably controlled feedback, and multiply are basic looping functions. For me, I have to add multiple loops, synchronization, reverse, retriggering, and multiple levels of undo. I use those functions pretty much all the time, and consider them essential to what I do in real life looping. They don't seem advanced to me, but then I've been doing this for a while now. Feedback control is so essential, that the Boomerang's lack of pretty much makes it useless to me, regardless of audio quality. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad the Boomerang exists on the market, despite my emotional connection to the echoplex. The more products and companies out there for loopers, the more noise and attention we'll have on looping. It would be absurd for Oberheim and Boomerang to compete against each other for the tiny number of people currently interested in this. The real goal for both, and all the rest of us too, is to bring new people in! Give them both a spin if you can, and then decide which is right for you. Just stirrin' the waters.... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Mar 25 08:54:17 1997 >From kflint Tue Mar 25 06:48:08 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w9XWB-0005z6-00; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 06:48:07 -0800 Message-ID: <3337D947.DD5@nyfac.com> Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 08:55:19 -0500 From: nyfac X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Boomerang: sample time vs. sample rate References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"M0oQQB.A.BdF.BU-Nz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2371 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 06:48:07 -0800 X-UIDL: 54441440dcfcffe90bee352ac9c09f48 My local shop sell them for $475.... Trev From ???@??? Tue Mar 25 08:54:20 1997 >From kflint Tue Mar 25 08:33:30 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w9ZA9-0004ZX-00; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 08:33:29 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:35:53 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Boomerang: sample time vs. sample rate Resent-Message-ID: <"RlVo1B.A.A9D.80_Nz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2372 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 08:33:29 -0800 X-UIDL: 8f0b1738fb87837969b26a156c49067c >G'day Matthias and everyone else, > >Thanks for your reply. Using the car analogy that's floating around at the >moment, I'm in the position of the VW driver: Me too, actually. It is a 12 year old Parati, which is like a Golf (=Rabbit) station wagon. Its somewhat rusty but basically solid with what is necessary. The beagle (here "Fusca") has been out of production for a while because its not economic, but now its produced again. Not with the old success anymore, though. >"I've seen those big Mercedes around and they sure look nice there are only about two of them here, in the whole city. But thats enough about cars now :-) , but my 2nd >hand VW cost me $50 and it goes, well, most of the time. It uses more oil >than petrol, it's got 4 bald tyres, it leaks in the rain, but it still gets >me where I'm going sooner or later... Why I should spend $50k on a >Mercedes when all it gives me is some nice leather seats?" Price difference it not that big. But, sure, I understand it. I even understand someone that sais to himself that a Mercedes is harder to drive, just to feel better with his VW. :-) >Hopefully, you get my drift... > >Having not used anything more powerful than a Boss pedal for looping, the >benefits of the Echoplex just don't seem to me to warrant the extra >expense. Realtime MIDI control seems to be the single big plus as I'm >already using an ART X-15 for controlling other stuff, but a tradeoff is >that at street prices I could just about buy two Boomerangs for the price >of an Echoplex. This would give me the ability to layer two separate loops >on top of each other with realtime control of the volume of each which (I'm >pretty sure) the Echoplex can't do. Unless you are only interested in "clowdy" music, I think one loop with lots of overdubs with good quality serves a lot more than two unsyced with limited audio quality (I never tried a Rang, but I can imagine more or less) >What "advanced" features of the Echoplex do you actually use in real life, >and what do you use them for? The feature that made me spend years of my life to build the machine were FeedBack with good resolution up to exactly infinite repetition, Mulitiply, Brother Sync and Undo. Maybe this is not the place to explain what they do. Those are the fundamental ones. Advanced there are a lot that I do not use, but clients asked for. I mean its not luxury that I put in to give some shine, but things I originally rejected to do and users convinced me that they make sense. Matthias From ???@??? Tue Mar 25 09:50:32 1997 >From kflint Tue Mar 25 09:22:08 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w9ZvD-0000bF-00; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 09:22:07 -0800 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 12:17:45 -0500 (EST) From: BobbyZZZ@aol.com Message-ID: <970325121745_-1471183237@emout03.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Boomerang: sample time vs. sample rate Resent-Message-ID: <"r_hW3D.A.TR.4jAOz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2373 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 09:22:07 -0800 X-UIDL: 128376447a179a765f6df045251edd06 take cover, the boomerang vs the echoplex war has begun :-) i have tried both, and will be going with the 'plex, for two reasons: 1. MIDI sync capability 2. Audio quality look out whenever we get our live show together! hopefully wherever we tour we can count on all of you loopers to come out and do shows with us...we would love to see and hear you all, and will of course have laptops on the road with us, so i will keep the list informed of our tour dates well in advance so we can plan some shows! bobby devito/lvx nova http://www.sar.usf.edu/~devito From ???@??? Tue Mar 25 22:54:41 1997 >From kflint Tue Mar 25 10:01:04 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w9aWt-0003rD-00; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:01:03 -0800 Message-ID: <33381131.617C@sj.bigger.net> Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 09:53:53 -0800 From: Roland Eberle Reply-To: roland@sj.bigger.net Organization: System User X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-KIT (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Boomerang: sample time vs. sample rate References: <970325121745_-1471183237@emout03.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"w51XTD.A.VMD.ZGBOz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2374 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:01:03 -0800 X-UIDL: 66af71b227012689a6fc5c1a52982edf BobbyZZZ@aol.com wrote: > > take cover, the boomerang vs the echoplex war has begun :-) If we're switching from car to war analogies...and lets say we want to keep it in Germany... Then it's 1939.....Echoplex = German Army Boomerang = Poland And perhaps the Allied Armies are now assembling the SuperLooper to defeat those nasty Nazi's From ???@??? Tue Mar 25 22:54:43 1997 >From kflint Tue Mar 25 10:15:14 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w9akW-00053o-00; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:15:08 -0800 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 12:09:04 -0600 (CST) From: Kim Corbet Subject: Re: Boomerang: sample time vs. sample rate To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"r1uSz.A.KOE.ETBOz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2375 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:15:08 -0800 X-UIDL: 3a5f714256f2352e1b20b63c1b82fc28 > Unless you are only interested in "clowdy" music, I think one loop with > lots of overdubs with good quality serves a lot more than two unsyced with > limited audio quality (I never tried a Rang, but I can imagine more or > less) ..............I'm interested in both control and a certain divine random quality. So, I've just ordered a plex to talk with my Rang and jamfella. This war has really whet my appetite to do a side-by-side...and I love making visa happy. I just came onto the list and may have missed this particular facet, but...what's the plex's max loop time? I find the jamaholic's 32 second limit much too, uh, limiting compared to the Rang. > The feature that made me spend years of my life to build the machine were > FeedBack with good resolution up to exactly infinite repetition, Mulitiply, > Brother Sync and Undo. Maybe this is not the place to explain what they do. > Those are the fundamental ones. ......................................I was just talking to Mike Nelson of Boomerang and he told me, not secretly, that there are software (read: feature) updates due in the next few months and that current owners will be able to upgrade for a nominal charge. Unfortunately, "undo" is still not in the works. At the moment, that's one of the key features that lure me to the plex. Question: Can someone tell me a bit more about the interface controls with the plex, the switches or whatever? If this info is already in the archive somewhere, just say so and I'll look there. I didn't see such a real description at the Oberheim website. thanks...another kim. From ???@??? Tue Mar 25 22:57:36 1997 >From kflint Tue Mar 25 13:44:54 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w9e1T-00076q-00; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:44:51 -0800 Message-ID: <33383A59.50@nyfac.com> Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:49:29 -0500 From: nyfac X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Mic pre and DI's was (Re: Mixer suggestion) References: <19970325.141801.3766.0.zenchi@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"waVprB.A.6OG.gYEOz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2378 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:44:51 -0800 X-UIDL: a1d670a384a62337045429bbcf06a5ea Robert- I have a Rolls stereo tube pre-amp that does just that, all though I don't really recommend it. There is another tube pre that does essentially the same thing, costs 50% more but is rumored to sound quite good. Trev From ???@??? Tue Mar 25 22:57:39 1997 >From kflint Tue Mar 25 14:05:56 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w9eLr-0001BP-00; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:05:55 -0800 Message-ID: <33383E41.44A3@nyfac.com> Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:06:09 -0500 From: nyfac X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Anybody have any answers... References: <19970325.141801.3766.0.zenchi@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"peDjGB.A.LT.BoEOz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2379 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:05:55 -0800 X-UIDL: 0bc7b2966765494e0b4e01904e80b030 I posted this a while ago, and nobody has imparted any sage advice in my general direction. Just in case this didn't get sent, here it is again... "For the first time last night, I ran my JamMan through the effects loop of my amp rather than feeding it from the pre-amp out and plugging the output of the JamMan into another amp or PA and strange things happened... I would hit an exceptionally loud note (in echo mode) which would cause the input light to flicker red. Instead of getting the usual obnoxious digital clip, the unit started this weird subatomic clicking sound. I was however dismayed to find that while the clicking could be sped up with the triplet/quarter note echo setting, I could not record onto it, or get my straight signal through the JM (because I am not one to waste an obnoxious sound when I find one). Anyone have this happen to them?" At first I thought this might be RF (or something) interference from the poorly shielded cables I was using (hey, they were handy) so I switched them and I still got the weird artifacts. I don't know if I said this clearly enough, but I got this runnaway, and then the whole unit, for all intents and purposes shut down (aside from the triplet/quarter note thing). Does anyone run a JamLady thru their effects loop on an amp, straight up, no chaser? Is their any good reason why no-one does? I wonder if anyone here has tried to do that here since it seems most use their loopers in conjunction with fifteen fx processors, 2 two mackie 8bus consoles, a cuisinart... Thanks, Low-Tech Trev From ???@??? Mon Mar 24 21:09:21 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 24 18:26:50 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w9Lwl-0001Op-00; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:26:47 -0800 Message-ID: <33383FC3.3EFD@erols.com> Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:12:35 +0000 From: Michael Preston Reply-To: michpres@erols.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Philly loop show reviews? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Ruyt5B.A.Ad._VzNz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2363 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:26:47 -0800 X-UIDL: 93061aba1c4d7266a013847a07bef282 Adam asked: > Does anyone who attended the Philly loop show care to share their > impressions of the show? To which Jonathan Brainin replied so well. Thanks Jonathan. I was there too; I drove up to Philly from Baltimore, and had a great time. Jim Speer and the LionFish staff were very receptive hosts. The space was well suited to the highly appreciative audience. At one point near the beginning of the third set, the owner of the LionFish was wondering out loud behind the bar about whether he would have to stop letting people in the door. It seems that the loop show had brought in so many people that the Philly fire marshall might have disapproved. I don't think the LionFish proprietor ever had to lock the door or turn anyone away; everyone who wanted to come in was welcome. The LionFish served some tasty food, and strong coffee (I especially enjoyed the carrot cake). Jim Speer ran the whole show smoothly, and did an excellent job of running the house PA system. The sound was very clear and dynamic. The music was pure effort and art, mostly improvisational, and well- looped. Each set revealed wonderful struggling to co-create musical ideas and momentary plans for more spontaneous possibility and co-creation. Emergence of Man, Fingerpaint, Charles Cohen, and Accidents Will Happen all rattled my cage in different ways. They were all quite different, yet they all fit together as the evening unfolded. I wanted to hear more at the end of each set. (I heard more Fingerpaint later, on tape, in the car, on the trip home.) Charles Cohen's set was pure delight for me. As I sat craning my neck around the backs of the folks sitting along the bar, trying to catch glimpses of Charles Cohen's quick and precise knob twisting and slider tweaking, I noticed that most of the heads in the place were bobbing to the infectious polyrithmic arpeggiations Charles was massaging out of his Buchla rig. I thought that all of us head bobbers were all drawing loops in the air with the points of our noses. The musicians all seemed to be having a great time as they played through the struggles of improvisation. Bruce Panula, drummer of Accidents Will Happen, had a sometimes beatific smile on his face as he alternately pounded and brushed his way through the mix. I loved it, and I'm ready for more mid-atlantic loop shows. Go Jim! Michael Preston From ???@??? Tue Mar 25 22:57:29 1997 >From kflint Tue Mar 25 13:25:20 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w9diY-0005Of-00; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:25:18 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Mic pre and DI's was (Re: Mixer suggestion) Message-ID: <19970325.141801.3766.0.zenchi@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.15 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-24 From: zenchi@juno.com (Robert L Williams) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:16:41 EST Resent-Message-ID: <"YqZ67C.A.unE.AGEOz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2377 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:25:18 -0800 X-UIDL: 6a8f45559e9da2c2c902eea114a7b76f On Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:04:16 -0600 "Ott, John" writes: >> >I plan to use some unreplaceable pedals in the straight guitar loop >and run the VG-8 outputs into a Vortex and stereo mic pre > (any suggestions?) to feed a p.a. > >< >I use a Mackie 1202VLZ, love it. >My guitar signal goes to an Digitech RP-6 >and I use it's cabinet simulator >to send a stereo signal to the Mackie. > [Big snip of rig info from John Ott] Thanks for the suggestion John, but that is way more complex than I need. All I want is something that will take the 1/4" outs of the VG-8 (or processor) and convert them to XLRs. I'm thinking primarily about the tube mic preamps from Digitech, Peavey and Rocktron. But I'm interested in any items you folks recommend. The same goes for two channel tube DI's. Thanks in advance for the input. Robert Williams DERISION From ???@??? Tue Mar 25 22:57:51 1997 >From kflint Tue Mar 25 16:11:50 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w9gJa-0004Jb-00; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:11:42 -0800 Message-ID: <3338682B.1F25@crystalball.com> Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 18:04:59 -0600 From: "Mikell D. Nelson" Reply-To: mnelson@crystalball.com Organization: Boomerang Musical Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: wake up! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"FSzM_B.A.5wC.iZGOz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2381 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:11:42 -0800 X-UIDL: 29ede11bd9058e624f724aa11b26e0bb Matthias, The Boomerang Phrase Sampler has no sync capability, so we strive to make our loops accurate. Of course without sync they will always drift apart because we can't tap with micro-second accuracy. I view my part as secondary to the bass part, so I pay attention and if my loop gets too far off, I simply restart it on time. I know this is decidedly low tech, so we are cataloging comments and ideas on syncing for "son of Boomerang", which is currently nothing more than a fantasy, a fantasy, ysatnaf a, ysatnaf a ... We left MIDI out of the Rang to help keep the cost down and we felt that the majority of users didn't require sync capabilities. This is proving to be correct. We do realize that more advanced and adventurous loop scapers may want to sync several pieces of equipment. Maybe "sob" will sync. -- == Motley == -- From ???@??? Tue Mar 25 22:57:53 1997 >From kflint Tue Mar 25 16:13:19 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w9gL2-0004St-00; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:13:12 -0800 Message-ID: <33386929.2C9E@crystalball.com> Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 18:09:13 -0600 From: "Mikell D. Nelson" Reply-To: mnelson@crystalball.com Organization: Boomerang Musical Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Boomerang: sample time vs. sample rate References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"eY4HuB.A.nJD.kdGOz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2382 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:13:12 -0800 X-UIDL: ad661f09ac732b377a2bff867d2f59ab > Dave Mitchell said > > >...I'd be choosing between having MIDI control > >and some extra features (on the Echoplex), and saving $US150 or so ... I don't think $150 is realistic. When you get the Plex, the optional foot switch, and fill it with some extra memory to get up to 30 seconds sampling time, the difference is more like $350. -- == Motley == -- From ???@??? Tue Mar 25 22:57:56 1997 >From kflint Tue Mar 25 16:28:28 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w9gZn-0005uE-00; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:28:27 -0800 Message-ID: <33386AC0.7E47@crystalball.com> Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 18:16:00 -0600 From: "Mikell D. Nelson" Reply-To: mnelson@crystalball.com Organization: Boomerang Musical Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Boomerang: sample time vs. sample rate References: <970325121745_-1471183237@emout03.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LHVSVC.A.eGF.LyGOz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2383 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:28:27 -0800 X-UIDL: d7b3eb83db904b211c82098d85753e1c BobbyZZZ@aol.com wrote: > > take cover, the boomerang vs the echoplex war has begun :-) No wars, just dialog, right Matthias. -- == Motley == -- From ???@??? Tue Mar 25 22:57:59 1997 >From kflint Tue Mar 25 16:54:18 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w9gyj-0000XA-00; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:54:13 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Mixer suggestion) Message-ID: <19970325.174200.7214.0.zenchi@juno.com> References: <19970325.141801.3766.0.zenchi@juno.com> <33383A59.50@nyfac.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.15 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-14 From: zenchi@juno.com (Robert L Williams) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 19:40:28 EST Resent-Message-ID: <"K4fZp.A.RzG.dEHOz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2384 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:54:13 -0800 X-UIDL: 23f32ac3134b28dc7712b866b265900f On Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:49:29 -0500 nyfac writes: >Robert- > >I have a Rolls stereo tube pre-amp that does just that, all though I >don't really recommend it. There is another tube pre that does >essentially the same thing, costs 50% more but is rumored to sound >quite good. > Trev: Thanks for the reply, and who makes the tube pre in question? Robert Williams DERISION From ???@??? Tue Mar 25 22:57:47 1997 >From kflint Tue Mar 25 15:12:55 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w9fOg-0006n9-00; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:12:54 -0800 From: David_Mitchell@HP-Australia-notes1.om.hp.com X-Openmail-Hops: 1 Date: Wed, 26 Mar 97 11:05:07 +1000 In-Reply-To: <"NOTES_CORRELATION_ITEM*"@MHS> Message-Id: <"102642:1*"@MHS> Subject: Re: Boomerang: sample time vs. sample rate Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@Annihilist.Com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="Lotus" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"DJxQ-B.A.H-F.crFOz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2380 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:12:54 -0800 X-UIDL: 9e9791e970bf13362a952b55fbe867e5 G'day everyone, Thanks again for the replies. I honestly didn't intend to start an Echoplex vs. Boomerang holy war. The info you've all posted about the Echoplex and the Boomerang has made things a bit clearer. Unfortunately, here in Australia, music stores don't carry "unusual" items that won't race off the shelves, so I have never had the chance to try these things out for myself. Buying lefty guitars When I next visit the US in May, I'll be armed with enough info to know what to do in trying out this gear. Dave Mitchell From ???@??? Tue Mar 25 22:58:06 1997 >From kflint Tue Mar 25 20:37:24 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w9kSh-0001sw-00; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:37:23 -0800 Message-ID: <3338A74B.434D@fredmarshall.com> Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:34:52 -0800 From: fred marshall Reply-To: fred@fredmarshall.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Anybody have any answers... References: <19970325.141801.3766.0.zenchi@juno.com> <33383E41.44A3@nyfac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"YpCfuD.A.UmB.7dKOz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2385 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:37:23 -0800 X-UIDL: b5f475486c053319409ea08292b8ab60 nyfac wrote: > > I posted this a while ago, and nobody has imparted any sage advice in my > general direction. > > Just in case this didn't get sent, here it is again... > > "For the first time last night, I ran my JamMan through the effects loop > of my amp rather than feeding it from the pre-amp out and plugging the > output of the JamMan into another amp or PA and strange things > happened... > > I would hit an exceptionally loud note (in echo mode) which would cause > the input light to flicker red. Instead of getting the usual obnoxious > digital clip, the unit started this weird subatomic clicking sound. I > was however dismayed to find that while the clicking could be sped up > with the triplet/quarter note echo setting, I could not record onto it, > or get my straight signal through the JM (because I am not one to waste > an obnoxious sound when I find one). Anyone have this happen to them?" > > At first I thought this might be RF (or something) interference from the > poorly shielded cables I was using (hey, they were handy) so I switched > them and I still got the weird artifacts. > > I don't know if I said this clearly enough, but I got this runnaway, and > then the whole unit, for all intents and purposes shut down (aside from > the triplet/quarter note thing). > > Does anyone run a JamLady thru their effects loop on an amp, straight > up, no chaser? Is their any good reason why no-one does? > > I wonder if anyone here has tried to do that here since it seems most > use their loopers in conjunction with fifteen fx processors, 2 two > mackie 8bus consoles, a cuisinart... > > Thanks, > > Low-Tech Trev answer: don't do that mmmmmmmmmmm From ???@??? Wed Mar 26 00:30:29 1997 >From kflint Tue Mar 25 23:48:49 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w9nRv-0006HA-00; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 23:48:47 -0800 Message-ID: <3338C65D.600C@bgnet.bgsu.edu> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 02:46:53 -0400 From: Jeff Schwartz X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: fred@fredmarshall.com CC: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Anybody have any answers... References: <19970325.141801.3766.0.zenchi@juno.com> <33383E41.44A3@nyfac.com> <3338A74B.434D@fredmarshall.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8FVbL.A.HvF.aRNOz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2387 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 23:48:47 -0800 X-UIDL: aafc048e5234f9a8efd342459eebc4e5 I have modest gear: homemade Strat into a volume pedal to- a ProCo Rat R2DU (basically 2 Rats in a rack unit) to- a Vortex to- a Digitech 2 second delay stompbox to- a JamMan Usually, I run all this shit in front of my amp (a Carvin ProBass 300 and a homemade 1x15 cabinet) but I've tried it with just the guitar to the volume pedal and then into the amp, with the other effects in the amp's effects loop. I haven't experienced freaky evil sounds doing this, I've just had to alter the levels on the inputs of the Vortex & JamMan and on the outputs of the distortion. I don't use the effects loop much because I usually just bring my rack o' toys to gigs and depend on the PA for all my amplification, but I don't see why there should be evil noise from putting the Jamster in the effects loop of an amp. Just be sure you're using the correct input & output on the Jammer. Just my $.02, hope it helps. -- Jeff Schwartz jeffs@bgnet.bgsu.edu http://www.bgsu.edu/~jeffs/main.html From ???@??? Wed Mar 26 00:30:27 1997 >From kflint Tue Mar 25 23:31:22 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w9nB3-0005Ak-00; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 23:31:21 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 23:24:43 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Boomerang: sample time vs. sample rate Resent-Message-ID: <"KvV4y.A.ooE.IANOz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2386 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 23:31:21 -0800 X-UIDL: 0a4f596fe78a74d9ca29fd6a730cd278 >> Unless you are only interested in "clowdy" music, I think one loop with >> lots of overdubs with good quality serves a lot more than two unsyced with >> limited audio quality (I never tried a Rang, but I can imagine more or >> less) >..............I'm interested in both control and a certain divine random >quality. So, I've just ordered a plex to talk with my Rang and jamfella. >This war has really whet my appetite to do a side-by-side...and I love >making visa happy. I just came onto the list and may have missed this >particular facet, but...what's the plex's max loop time? I find the >jamaholic's 32 second limit much too, uh, limiting compared to the Rang. Max loop time on the echoplex is 200 seconds. The memory used in the echoplex is so cheap now that the full expansion costs between $80 and $100. The simms used are available just about everywhere. The memory in the plex can be used for more than just really, really long loops. (sort of boring to me, really). You can divide it into multiple loops, and the more memory you have, the more undo's you have available. > >> The feature that made me spend years of my life to build the machine were >> FeedBack with good resolution up to exactly infinite repetition, Mulitiply, >> Brother Sync and Undo. Maybe this is not the place to explain what they do. >> Those are the fundamental ones. >......................................I was just talking to Mike Nelson >of Boomerang and he told me, not secretly, that there are software (read: >feature) updates due in the next few months and that current owners will >be able to upgrade for a nominal charge. Unfortunately, "undo" is still >not in the works. At the moment, that's one of the key features that >lure me to the plex. Question: Can someone tell me a bit more about the >interface controls with the plex, the switches or whatever? If this info >is already in the archive somewhere, just say so and I'll look there. I >didn't see such a real description at the Oberheim website. > >thanks...another kim. The whole Echoplex manual is on the Looper's web site. Take a look at that, and feel free to ask if you still have questions.....' kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Wed Mar 26 09:08:32 1997 >From kflint Wed Mar 26 00:56:18 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w9oVE-0001d0-00; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 00:56:16 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 00:51:15 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: an exciting new look for Looper's Delight Resent-Message-ID: <"N0tL9.A.uaB.OROOz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2388 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 00:56:16 -0800 X-UIDL: 2d7f0c83859636009b8e1a695091a26c The Looper's Delight site has a brand new look! Courtesy of Pat Kirtley, who has done a wonderful job of redesigning our home page. Much better than the boring design I had. The logo that Tom Attix did for us looks great against the new background! Thanks a lot Pat! And of course, Michael Peters has diligently sent me several new profile pages over the past month or so, which have languished in my to-do directory. I've finally put the latest one up on the page, so you may all peruse each other at will. For those of you not yet profiled on loopers delight, send your specs and measurements to Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM>, so he can add you in there. Be sure to check the profiles page to learn which info-shards to provide. And once again, thanks Michael for the great work. For those of you new folks who might not know, Looper's Delight is really a collective effort. Lots of people have made contributions to help make it a great site. Any and all help is always welcomed! Right now I'm feeling totally guilty for not creating a huge tribute page to acknowledge everyone who's pitched in. All of your help is very much appreciated, because this whole thing would really suck if I was the only one doing the work! A credits page is high on the priority list, so you all can get your names in blinking web graphics.... thanks, kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Wed Mar 26 23:44:41 1997 >From kflint Wed Mar 26 14:33:51 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wA1GQ-0004yB-00; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:33:50 -0800 Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 17:26:43 -0500 (EST) From: Aviansongs@aol.com Message-ID: <970326172526_1218506567@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Mixer suggestion Resent-Message-ID: <"E_6fz.A.sKE.rLaOz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2392 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:33:50 -0800 X-UIDL: 3d62c7d3b95ffc03c825dea8210432b8 In a message dated 97-03-24 14:55:02 EST, you write: > I use a Mackie 1202VLZ, love it. > My guitar signal goes to an Digitech RP-6 > and I use it's cabinet simulator > to send a stereo signal to the Mackie. > My JamMan is on the Aux 1 out/return loop. > Then I use the Aux 2 out to feed a Fender amp. > Tape out and in go to my hard disk recording system > (Mac with Deck II) Then the main outs got to the PA amplifier > It also has a headphone and control room send with > a fader. The aux returns have faders also. > I also bring in two keyboards and microphones to the Mackie. > (It has four XLR inputs with preamps for the first four > channels (mono) also each channel has line level > 1/4 jack inputs, The last four channels are stereo line/level > (no preamps) 1/4 inch inputs) The Mackie was recommended to me by > a trumpet player friend who likes the preamps. > They are sweet but I like the Mackie for its flexibility. > I can control how much of each channel I send to the > JamMan with the aux 1 send faders on each channel. > Each channel also has three band eq. It's rack mountable > if you need that. I'm using mine in a home studio > so It's on a desk next to Mac. > You can get one for about 310-350 bucks if you check > around. I love this mixer. If you need more inputs, check out the 1402VLZ. If you need more inputs and more sends, check out the 1604VLZ, or the LM3204. If you can find an original 1202, or 1604, you can probably get a really good deal on them. However, make sure that you can live without the extra options on the VLZ series. Take care, Marc From ???@??? Wed Mar 26 23:44:47 1997 >From kflint Wed Mar 26 15:46:32 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wA2Ol-0003mY-00; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:46:31 -0800 From: rpeck@PureAtria.COM Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:37:41 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199703262337.PAA23641@pure.PureAtria.COM> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: You asked for it, and now you have it my friend! In-Reply-To: <332F57AA.2F5D@nyfac.com> References: <332F032D.1A39@nyfac.com> <332F3B7C.6D54@crystalball.com> <332F57AA.2F5D@nyfac.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"FuO_xD.A.xWD.aSbOz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2393 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:46:31 -0800 X-UIDL: d78978e4057691cb36ea886ba023a39e nyfac2@nyfac.com writes: >PS- what ever happened to all the talk about a loopers delight CD? I >kind of wanted to hear some your collective work... Sorry for the delay in response. Contributions have been trickling in, and going into a big paper bag in my office. I think I've now got enough to make a reasonably-long disk, and will be getting on that soon. Stay tuned. (contributors may note that the dough they sent me, in some cases months ago, is *also* in that big brown paper bag, so do not despair) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "As to guaranteeing bank deposits, the minute the government starts to do that... the government runs into a probable loss. We do not wish to make the United States Government liable for the mistakes and errors of individual banks, and put a premium on sound banking in the future." - Franklin Delano Roosevelt, 1933 From ???@??? Wed Mar 26 23:45:05 1997 >From kflint Wed Mar 26 23:43:16 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wA9q6-0002CE-00; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 23:43:14 -0800 Date: 27 Mar 97 02:30:49 EST From: Teed Rockwell <74164.3703@CompuServe.COM> To: Stickwire , "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Teed at Jupiter Message-ID: <970327073048_74164.3703_GHP59-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"1hsLLC.A.TrB.eMiOz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2394 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 23:43:14 -0800 X-UIDL: 2e5f25680c2a5bb9acfb152188a426da Hello Stickists and/or Loopers, I've managed to find some time between Graduate studies and Festival of Harps stuff to do a solo Gig with my Digital Echoplex: April 3 from 8:00 to 10:00 at Jupiter at 2181 Shattuck in Berkeley. I'll be doing some harder edged jazz-flavored things for an audience used to Peter Apfelbaum and Charley Hunter, so it will be something new for me. If any of you show up, stop by and say hi. There's no cover, great draft beer and food, and a lovely outdoor garden. If you want to hear a sample of what I'll be doing, you can download sound from my Website at www.traktor.com/presents/teed I'll also be doing a concert on April 26 at Open Secret in San Rafael with Sitar, Bass, and Tabla,but I'll post more on that later. Teed Rockwell From ???@??? Thu Mar 27 01:11:09 1997 >From kflint Thu Mar 27 00:48:59 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wAArh-00053T-00; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:48:57 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 05:51:32 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Boomerang: sample time vs. sample rate Resent-Message-ID: <"HLJykC.A.SkE.gNjOz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2395 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:48:57 -0800 X-UIDL: 48f97fbf21521ab48bbcfcf1857e9a97 someone ironized: >> take cover, the boomerang vs the echoplex war has begun :-) Mr. Nelson defined: > No wars, just dialog, right Matthias. Oh sure! I heard some strange noises like as if somebody got it wrong... If there was a war, I simply would not go. How are you, by the way? Matthias From ???@??? Thu Mar 27 01:11:11 1997 >From kflint Thu Mar 27 00:56:30 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wAAz0-0005SH-00; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:56:30 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 06:02:13 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: wake up! Resent-Message-ID: <"oabqFB.A.p_E.dXjOz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2396 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:56:30 -0800 X-UIDL: 1182a797953ac20280a3d40416c154e1 >Matthias, > The Boomerang Phrase Sampler has no sync capability, so we strive to >make our loops accurate. Of course without sync they will always drift >apart because we can't tap with micro-second accuracy. I view my part as >secondary to the bass part, so I pay attention and if my loop gets too >far off, I simply restart it on time. I see, you can restart. That makes it. If you restart often enough, you never get out of sync... and never away from the foot pedal :-) ... could that be fed from outside, from an audio source or so, somehow? > We left MIDI out of the Rang to help keep the cost down and we felt >that the majority of users didn't require sync capabilities. This is >proving to be correct. We do realize that more advanced and adventurous >loop scapers may want to sync several pieces of equipment. Maybe "sob" >will sync. Yes, it does not need to be MIDI. BrotherSync is better for looping, and if we can expand it to "NephewSync" for a Sob-Plex joint... From ???@??? Thu Mar 27 10:14:24 1997 >From kflint Thu Mar 27 09:16:15 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wAIma-0005hd-00; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:16:12 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 17:01:17 +0000 Message-ID: <00023220.1424@mail.bl.uk> From: David.Orton@mail.bl.uk (David Orton) Subject: Looping in London 10-iv-97 To: "'Loopers Delight'" Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"GbWNYD.A.PgE.PkqOz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2397 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:16:12 -0800 X-UIDL: 4aab43b5574d7f31670d2dd2793a5bdc Just a brief note to say I will be adopting a solo loopist stance on April 10th at the the Clock Tower in Croydon, London (UK) from 1pm till 2pm(lunch time) Anyone who can make it is most welcome - its free (I dont get paid!) Contact me direct for further details. Cheers David From ???@??? Thu Mar 27 10:14:48 1997 >From kflint Thu Mar 27 09:34:47 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wAJ4X-0007QO-00; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:34:45 -0800 Message-ID: <01BC3AAA.4B98FCE0@mark.asisoftware.com> From: Mark@asisoftware.com (Mark Kata) To: 'Loopers Delight' Subject: Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 12:27:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"17_U8C.A.hUG.Z4qOz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2398 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:34:45 -0800 X-UIDL: 7402a17f94430cc3113c20c66a2517fb This is somewhat off topic, but since there have been quite a few posts about mixers, I'll ask. I'm forming an eight-piece Top 40 band (guitar, bass, electronic & acoustic drums, keyboard, three horns and a female vocalist) and I'm considering running my guitar from a SansAmp PSA-1 preamp (with a volume pedal and a Vortex) directly into the mixer. I don't want to use a speaker cabinet or power amp. Does anyone have experience with this kind of a setup? Thanks, Mark Kata Mark@asisoftware.com p.s. I plan to slip in a loop here and there. From ???@??? Thu Mar 27 10:14:51 1997 >From kflint Thu Mar 27 09:45:18 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wAJEf-0000ju-00; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:45:13 -0800 Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 11:40:11 -0600 (CST) From: Dave Stagner To: "'Loopers Delight'" Subject: Stage monitors In-Reply-To: <01BC3AAA.4B98FCE0@mark.asisoftware.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ZCvGlB.A.bM.0DrOz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2399 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:45:13 -0800 X-UIDL: 99c48e0659614ebb13bd476bec71768b On Thu, 27 Mar 1997, Mark Kata wrote: > I'm forming an eight-piece Top 40 band (guitar, bass, electronic & > acoustic drums, keyboard, three horns and a female vocalist) and I'm > considering running my guitar from a SansAmp PSA-1 preamp (with a > volume pedal and a Vortex) directly into the mixer. I don't want to > use a speaker cabinet or power amp. How about this? Go direct to the board, but also keep a separate amp on stage for a personal monitor. With that many pieces on stage, you'll probably have lots of problems hearing yourself through the monitors alone. With a private monitor, you can hear yourself clearly, while still getting the advantages of going directly to the board. Forget using a guitar amp. Use a small PA system of your own, something accurate. Guitar amps will just muck up your monitor sound. -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.net */ -Charles Fort From ???@??? Thu Mar 27 23:39:52 1997 >From kflint Thu Mar 27 10:35:36 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wAK1K-0005e4-00; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 10:35:30 -0800 Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:29:30 -0500 (EST) From: BobbyZZZ@aol.com Message-ID: <970327132930_2097013546@emout02.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Looping in London 10-iv-97 Resent-Message-ID: <"cOJ9aC.A.j3E.TzrOz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2400 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 10:35:30 -0800 X-UIDL: ad04ee988a22e0764eecee8ebe505464 In a message dated 3/27/97 12:38:14 PM, you wrote: >Just a brief note to say I will be adopting a solo loopist stance on April >10th at the the Clock Tower in Croydon, London (UK) from 1pm till 2pm(lunch >time) > >Anyone who can make it is most welcome - its free (I dont get paid!) > >Contact me direct for further details. > >Cheers hi all! i just wanted to mention that i really enjoyed david orton's cassette he sent me in exchange for the LVX NOVA CD. very cool looping music, reminiscent of some steve reich music IMHO.....a good listen for sure, if any of you are interested :-) bobby devito/lvx nova From ???@??? Thu Mar 27 23:40:15 1997 >From kflint Thu Mar 27 11:50:56 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wALCI-0004fK-00; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 11:50:54 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Ott, John" To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: direct to board Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 14:43:37 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 Encoding: 54 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"WR-wyC.A.x0D.v4sOz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2401 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 11:50:54 -0800 X-UIDL: e57dfb5fc5b8df403ca8594760392158 >---------- >From: Mark@asisoftware.com >Reply To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >Sent: Thursday, March 27, 1997 5:27 PM >To: John_Ott@ATK.COM > >This is somewhat off topic, but since there have been quite a few posts about >mixers, I'll ask. > >I'm forming an eight-piece Top 40 band (guitar, bass, electronic & acoustic >drums, keyboard, three horns and a female vocalist) and I'm considering >running my guitar from a SansAmp PSA-1 preamp (with a volume pedal and a >Vortex) directly into the mixer. I don't want to use a speaker cabinet or >power amp. > >Does anyone have experience with this kind of a setup? > Yep, Digitech RP-6 (cabinette simulator) -> Mackie (with JamMan in effect loop) -> main PA or recording. The draw back with this setup is generating feedback, so I send a aux out to a fender amp for use as a monitor and to generate and control feedback. If you don't like or use feedback then you should be OK. Do you have the SansAmp yet? I've heard good things about it. How do you like it? (if you have it) < Tuesday night I went looking for David Torn's new album but came back with "Cloud About Mercury" and "Polytown", good stuff. Also was looking for Michael Brook's "Albino Alligator" soundtrack and got "Hybrid" instead. More good loopy stuff. Still looking for the new stuff. Also got a e-mail from Gary at the artist-shop to say Jon Durant's new record is in. I checked out the real-audio at http://www.artist-shop.com/alchemy/silent.ra Also the alchemy page has some AIFF files samples. I like it, I'm waiting for some VoicePrint stuff to come in then I'm going to order those and Jon's record at the artist-shop. Nice work Jon. Later >John > From ???@??? Thu Mar 27 23:40:21 1997 >From kflint Thu Mar 27 13:06:59 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wAMNp-0003Ym-00; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:06:53 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:00:51 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: RE: direct to board Resent-Message-ID: <"pfQu-.A.F3C.ZBuOz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2402 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:06:53 -0800 X-UIDL: 09e475e487fd19f8d13a59a0b6caec41 > >Do you have the SansAmp yet? I've heard good things about it. How do >you like it? (if you have it) > Also, I'd be interested in a review of the SansAmp myself. I'm embarking on a recording project that includes several guitarists, and I'd like to try to record them directly, my studio space isn't exactly conducive to high-volume amps. FWIW, I have one of the original SansAmp bass units, the kind that you have to open up and tweak tiny internal pots to adjust the sound. I love it, I've recorded consistantly with it for about 2 years, and I think it sounds better than my amp ever has... I'm open to any opinions on other guitar-amp emulators as well ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Thu Mar 27 23:40:23 1997 >From kflint Thu Mar 27 13:17:14 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wAMXn-0004ZU-00; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:17:11 -0800 Sender: kcorbet@post.smu.edu (Kim Corbet) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 15:12:45 -0600 (CST) From: Kim Corbet Sender: Kim Corbet Reply-To: Kim Corbet Subject: Re: Stage monitors To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com cc: 'Loopers Delight' In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"OBsZUC.A.E4D.RLuOz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2403 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:17:11 -0800 X-UIDL: 2d6e61e54307493c615396db4d2754cd > > I don't want to use a speaker cabinet or power amp. > Forget using a guitar amp. Use a small PA system of your own, > something accurate. Guitar amps will just muck up your monitor > sound. .......Not trusting sound people any further than my mom, I certainly second the personal stage monitor suggestion even though I hate having to shlep any more gear than absolutely necessary. Now, when it comes to guitar, I have to point out that half the coolness of my strat is the quality of the sound of my mesa boogie. That really IS the sound of the guitar. I'm sure if my amp didn't sound as good as the pa that would be different. For horn, vocal and keyboards, I put everything through a mackey board into a coupla powered JBL Eons (hard to beat JBL for clarity), but I'd say a good tube amp is essential for a guitar sound with any kind of balls (or tasty timbre, if you prefer). .kim prime From ???@??? Thu Mar 27 23:40:25 1997 >From kflint Thu Mar 27 13:26:14 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wAMgX-0005T3-00; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:26:13 -0800 Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 15:21:26 -0600 (CST) From: Kim Corbet Subject: Re: Stage monitors To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com cc: 'Loopers Delight' In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Ku-BJC.A.pqE.aTuOz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2404 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:26:13 -0800 X-UIDL: 681b0a46f2f0ab6cbf1dc2b98ad70183 > > considering running my guitar from a SansAmp PSA-1 preamp (with a ...okay. I just started learning guitar. How accurate/flexible ARE these amp simulators...can they really achieve the variety I'm used to with a mesa boogie??? From ???@??? Thu Mar 27 23:40:35 1997 >From kflint Thu Mar 27 14:46:39 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wANwH-0005Nm-00; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 14:46:33 -0800 Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 16:42:33 -0600 (CST) From: Dave Stagner To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: RE: direct to board In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"xpgzcB.A.ztE.RfvOz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2405 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 14:46:33 -0800 X-UIDL: df8f08e24e06176a4bafc25c8d0cb58c For electric guitar, I use a BBE 2+1 preamp. Not as good as a SansAmp, but not bad. It also has nice analog footswitching and a generally clean, quiet sound. But these days, I hardly touch electric guitar anyway. For acoustic, I have a Fishman Blender, which does preamp and mixer duties for my two-pickup system (piezo and internal mic). I'm not happy with the Blender... it generates lots of hiss. But it also has separate EQ and effects loops, phase switch, and other useful features, so I use it anyway. Maybe one of these days I'll build a nice tube preamp for acoustic use. I think very highly of the SansAmp. It doesn't sound *quite* as good as a nice Marshall, Boogie, or other top-quality amp turned way up, but it's very close (close enough to be better than most amps, imho). The beauty of the SansAmp and other good emulators is recording. Unless you have a really good studio, and good microphones, you probably won't be able to beat the sound of a SansAmp by the time it gets to tape. Plus there's no complex setup time and tweaking to deal with. And unlike microphones, SansAmps don't pick up the sound of passing airplanes and other environmental noise. But best of all, there's no worry that your neighbors will call the cops or your wife will file for divorce because you have a Marshall stack in the bathtub! :} Another thing I really like about emulators which is highly applicable to people on this list, is effects handling. With most guitar amps, you're running your effects through a mono effects loop, then distorted output tubes, and finally into an awful speaker that dies above 5khz. Yes, the speaker is essential for that pure electric guitar tone, but it absolutely sucks for reproducing your ethereal panned cloud chamber phased chorus loops from your Vortex! That's why I don't use guitar amps at all anymore. The emulator gets a pretty decent simulation of an overdriven amp tone, without all the problems of actually having an overdriven amp in the room. Then I can run it into my stereo effects and tweak the sound to my heart's delight, then take the processed loops straight into a tape recorder or hi-fi stereo monitoring system. -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.net */ -Charles Fort From ???@??? Thu Mar 27 23:40:53 1997 >From kflint Thu Mar 27 18:15:21 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wARCJ-0000la-00; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 18:15:19 -0800 Message-ID: <333B27A1.7E48@fredmarshall.com> Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 18:06:35 -0800 From: fred marshall Reply-To: fred@fredmarshall.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Paradise Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_RDbDB.A.0V.PiyOz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2406 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 18:15:19 -0800 X-UIDL: 5ee4d7db8ac1bfc142d240891264632d - the marshall arts trio is appearing at the Paradise Lounge tomorrow night (Friday, March 29 - 9:30pm). - the band consists of Joshi Marshall playing tenor and alto saxophones (often simultaneously), flutes, and percussion; Steve Rossi playing drums, percussion and a lot of other stuff, and i'm playing the Uprite bass that i designed for Zeta/Gibson through a looper and several other dsp devices. - the music comes from the blues, bebop, and space/time. - Joshi also appears with Jungle Biskit and Mingus Amongus (they just won a Bammie) and has worked w/Charlie Hunter, Josh Jones' Hueman Flavor, The Mofessionals and lots of other bay bands. - Steve Rossi also works with Mingus Amongus and recently won a room full of drums for being the best soloist in CA. - In the '50's I worked w/Eddie "Cleanhead" Vinson, Etta Jones, Dinah Washington, and Terry Gibbs; in the 60's w/Ben Webster, Howard Roberts, Philly Joe Jones, John Handy, Pharoah Sanders, Lou Rawls, Maynard Ferguson, Dexter Gordon, Mose Allison, Joe Henderson and others - also made a bunch of records w/Vince Guaraldi (and the "Peanuts " stuff for t.v.), did a live album w/Jon Hendricks and was the house bassist at Bop City after hours in SF - also designed and built the sustaining guitar (US PAT), sympathetic electronic instruments, electronic drums (for Jerry Granelli, who I worked w/over 20 yrs) and various loop devices (there were none on the market and i didn't want to carry two tape machines). - in the 70's I co-created the Light Sound Dimension with Bill Ham (inventor of the SF light show) playing instruments of my own design, including the loops, and performed several thousand completely spontaneous light and sound "Compositions in the Present Tense" at museums and universities here and in Europe as well as in our theatre on California St in Fan Francisco. - since then, I've been raising a family (Joshi happens to be my son, and a daughter Zoe), playing guitar in my band Delta Nine, doing a few Light Sound Dimension shows, and designing/building instruments. For the last five years we've been appearing as the current band, Marshall Arts. - In April Joshi and Steve are touring Cuba with Mingus Amongus and I'll be in Arkansas celebrating my mother's 89th, so this will be the last show in the SF area for a minute or two. - You can hear the Marshall Arts trio at www.fredmarshall.com (streaming audio by Shockwave). There are several loop pieces on the cd we just finished, and they will be on the site soon as I get a chance to squish them. - here we are . . . fred marshall From ???@??? Thu Mar 27 23:40:56 1997 >From kflint Thu Mar 27 21:03:31 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wAToy-00056h-00; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 21:03:24 -0800 Message-ID: <333B51A8.377C@crystalball.com> Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 23:05:44 -0600 From: "Mikell D. Nelson" Reply-To: mnelson@crystalball.com Organization: Boomerang Musical Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: wake up! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MYBMJC.A.hNE.W_0Oz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2407 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 21:03:24 -0800 X-UIDL: 7c059b60027d178167e71e9dcc91870f Matthias Grob wrote: > Yes, it does not need to be MIDI. BrotherSync is better for looping, and if > we can expand it to "NephewSync" for a Sob-Plex joint... There's a thought: be compatible with the Plex sync. I guess if two of us were doing it, it would constitute a standard. -- == Motley == -- From ???@??? Fri Mar 28 09:01:51 1997 >From kflint Fri Mar 28 06:41:49 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wAcqg-0005b4-00; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 06:41:46 -0800 Message-ID: <333B930D.3406@nyfac.com> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 09:44:46 +0000 From: nyfac Reply-To: nyfac@nyfac.com Organization: nyfac X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Stage monitors References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3FfdUD.A.PFF.3g9Oz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2411 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 06:41:46 -0800 X-UIDL: 4e350438c58b9f6547a610ddd6fa2410 Kim Corbet wrote: >I just started learning guitar. How accurate/flexible ARE > these amp simulators...can they really achieve the variety I'm used to > with a mesa boogie??? Nothing is going to sound like your Mesa but your Mesa... I love my SansAmp classic ('tho I'm not so thrilled with my GT-2) but it is an entirely different tool- albeit a much more portable one. For years my tone was Rat pedal, stereo eq, quadraverb and a pa and I loved it. Now I have a Mesa too (a Maverick) and I love that also (not to mention about fifty little amps). If your are looking to use the pa as your amp, it might be a good idea to start with a fresh ear, rather than trying to get the exact analog of what you have now. Tube does not nessesarilt the only ticket to good tone- I just saw Unwound last weekend (gtr and bass had matching Sunn Concert solid state heads (anyone who can see these guys should-the guitarist tortures his Maestro Echoplex in the most entertaining ways)) and their tone was unbelievable. Nick Cave's guitarist uses a SansAmp and nothing else (not that Blixa guy, but the other one). Doesn't Michael Brook use a PSA-1 right into a pa? Go into it without any preconceived expectations and just try to find something that sounds good in its own right. Trev From ???@??? Fri Mar 28 09:01:45 1997 >From kflint Fri Mar 28 03:14:02 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wAZbd-00066y-00; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 03:14:01 -0800 Message-ID: <01BC3B3F.1D46F820@mark.asisoftware.com> From: Mark@asisoftware.com (Mark Kata) To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Stage monitors Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 06:13:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"9vTB_B.A.JqF.Ze6Oz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2408 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 03:14:01 -0800 X-UIDL: 2758cfce1a076b16b50ff284292c75f5 Kim Corbet wrote: ...okay. I just started learning guitar. How accurate/flexible ARE these amp simulators...can they really achieve the variety I'm used to with a mesa boogie??? I've only used two amp simulators: the SansAmp PSA-1 and the original Peavey ProFex. Both are fine pieces of equipment, but I'm not really interested in re-creating the sound of a tube amp. (I already have a Mesa Boogie Mark IIB and a Fender Vibrolux that are tremendous for what they do.) I'm more interested in getting a personal sound. That's why I switched from tube amps to transistor amps. Also, I was tired of my Vibrolux breaking down on the gig for no apparent reason. These are the best transistor amps I've ever owned: - Gallien Krueger 112SC - Sort of a transistor Mesa Boogie with tremendous sustain and a neat "Contour" switch that boosted the highs and lows while cutting the mids. (I wish I still had it.) - Gallien Kreuger 250ML - Great clean sounds, especially with an Ovation acoustic/electric. Average dirty sounds. It's very loud and only the size of a shoe box. - Peavey Special Wedge - It's shaped like a floor monitor and I prefer its tighter bottom end to my Mesa Boogie's somewhat floppy bottom end. Getting back to your original question, "How accurate/flexible are the amp simulators?" The SansAmp PSA-1 is very accurate and flexible. A quick listen to the presets demonstrates this. The Peavey ProFex is a somewhat different bird. Its a hybrid preamp/multi-effects processor. It's very easy to program and very flexible--you can place its effects modules in any order. This is its single most important feature to me because it allows me to make "wrong" sounds. For example, reverb into flange into distortion, instead of the usual distortion into flange into reverb. If you are interested in programming your own sounds, you can really personalize your loops far beyond the notes you select to play. The main difference that I've found between guitar amps and amp simulators, is that an amp consists of its own rainbow of sounds, while amp simulators consist of many different rainbows of sounds. Granted, some of these "many different rainbows" don't appear to be useful, but somewhere down the road they may provide the exact color that you're looking for. I hope this gives you a clearer picture of these two amp simulators. Good luck, Mark Kata Mark@asisoftware.com From ???@??? Fri Mar 28 09:01:48 1997 >From kflint Fri Mar 28 06:01:43 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wAcDu-0003lp-00; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 06:01:42 -0800 Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 06:56:45 -0500 (EST) From: Stew Benedict To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: echoplex manual In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"pWcJwB.A.IaD.I78Oz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2409 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 06:01:42 -0800 X-UIDL: 95c46324795181b50871f14410c174cb Thanks Kim, for putting the manual online. At least now I can read about the plex while I'm waiting impatiently for mine ;-) Seems like an amazing machine. Stew Benedict From ???@??? Fri Mar 28 09:01:50 1997 >From kflint Fri Mar 28 06:40:56 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wAcpr-0005WR-00; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 06:40:55 -0800 Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 09:37:24 -0500 From: Michael Peters Subject: ancient tape squeak To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Message-ID: <199703280937_MC2-1364-7CA3@compuserve.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"ssi_RB.A.WBF.Bg9Oz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2410 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 06:40:55 -0800 X-UIDL: 7102b974665dea45c4383b1816933faa Technical advice needed. I recently dug up my ancient Revox A77 and I'm planning to salvage a number of old tapes (some of them more than 20 years old) and copy them to DAT. The tapes carry recordings of my first jam sessions, looping experiments, and compositions - musically not of high value but I love them anyway of course. Unfortunately, some of the tapes (cheaper brands such as Shamrock and Sony) have a tendency to rub off their coating very quickly. The effect is a very high pitched squeaking noise which begins faintly and gets louder and louder. The squeaking can also be heard on the recording - the music gets modulated and distorted and is unusable. Cleaning the tape heads and tapes helps only for a couple of minutes. The squeaking noise comes back. Especially on long pieces (and I did a number of very long pieces) this is very annoying. If anyone has found a remedy for this problem, please let me know. Michael Peters mpeters@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters HOP - Fractals in Motion ..."the only screen saver you'll ever want" http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters/hop.htm From ???@??? Fri Mar 28 10:20:49 1997 >From kflint Fri Mar 28 09:43:19 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wAfgI-0002pB-00; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 09:43:14 -0800 Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 12:45:42 -0500 (EST) From: Floyd Miller X-Sender: floyd@omni1 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: SansAmp (was Stage monitors) In-Reply-To: <333B930D.3406@nyfac.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"SalQuB.A.ATC.GJAPz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2412 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 09:43:14 -0800 X-UIDL: f50417730f979a095bda5d4aab4f2607 I love my SansAmp PSA-1 - the rackmount SansAmp. Not only does it give me a wide palette of sounds and tones but it allows me to play live and record without having to mic an amp (which always changes the character). So with the SansAmp, what you hear is what is recorded too. And since I also use a GR-50 with a few external sound modules I can easily control my mix. The previous poster also made a good point - start with fresh ears. It is not hard to find the tone you are looking for with the Sans Amp. You may not get an exact clone of your Mesa or Marshall but if you are like me and enjoy having many tones to work with the SansAmp is the most versatile piece of gear I can think of (other than a truck load of different amps and a raod crew to help lug them around. - Floyd From ???@??? Fri Mar 28 23:03:06 1997 >From kflint Fri Mar 28 12:49:15 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wAiaG-0002pd-00; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 12:49:12 -0800 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <333B930D.3406@nyfac.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 12:47:03 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: SansAmp (was Stage monitors) Resent-Message-ID: <"5sOK9.A.CWC.C4CPz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2416 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 12:49:12 -0800 X-UIDL: d92f4744a86b8dd1994b1bcc98579db5 Floyd wrote: >I love my SansAmp PSA-1 - the rackmount SansAmp. >Not only does it give me a wide palette of sounds >and tones but it allows me to play live and record >without having to mic an amp (which always changes >the character). So with the SansAmp, what you >hear is what is recorded too. And since I also >use a GR-50 with a few external sound modules >I can easily control my mix. > >The previous poster also made a good point - start >with fresh ears. It is not hard to find the tone >you are looking for with the Sans Amp. You may >not get an exact clone of your Mesa or Marshall >but if you are like me and enjoy having many tones >to work with the SansAmp is the most versatile >piece of gear I can think of (other than a truck >load of different amps and a raod crew to help >lug them around. I agree. The SansAmp gets CLOSE to the sound of a variety of amps. I used to use a Boogie Mark IV. When my brother picked up a SansAmp PSA-1, I ran it in parallel (with an A/B/ box) with the Mark IV preamp, then back into the Mark IV effects return. THis allowed me to A/B between the Sansamp and Boogie preamps, using the same power amp/speaker setup. The results? I found that I could almost exactly reproduce each of the (3) Mark IV preamp channels, using the SansAmp. And it sounded damn good! PLus, the SansAmp gets Marshall, Hiwatt, Vox, ...etc. However, when I ran the SansAmp directly into the board, I could not get the warm sound I had using the Boogie power amp and speaker. This showed me that it was the power-amp and the speaker that was giving an aspect to the sound that I really liked. So, I ended up picking up a PSA-1, selling my Mark IV -- and now I run my guitar into the PSA-1 --> Fender tube reverb --> Boogie tube power amp --> THD Hot plate --> Celestion Greenbacks. AND I LOVE IT! (I can also run the Line Out of the Hot PLate into the board, for looping). I find this setup to be versatile. From ???@??? Fri Mar 28 23:02:39 1997 >From kflint Fri Mar 28 11:55:15 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wAhk0-00066F-00; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 11:55:12 -0800 Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 13:51:48 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199703281951.NAA05634@admin.inetport.com> X-Sender: andrew@inetport.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: andrew@inetport.com (Andrew Wagner) Subject: Resent-Message-ID: <"bFzVo.A.tOF.-DCPz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2414 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 11:55:12 -0800 X-UIDL: 29ee8052d5778d369adac59ec42cc138 remove -Andrew __________________________________________________________________ To pretend to satisfy one's desires by possessions is like putting out a fire with straw. CHINESE PROVERB __________________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Fri Mar 28 23:02:41 1997 >From kflint Fri Mar 28 11:55:27 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wAhkE-00067L-00; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 11:55:26 -0800 Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 13:52:57 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199703281952.NAA05677@admin.inetport.com> X-Sender: andrew@inetport.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: andrew@inetport.com (Andrew Wagner) Subject: unsubscribe Resent-Message-ID: <"A1dkm.A.XXF.IFCPz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2415 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 11:55:26 -0800 X-UIDL: dbd25b1e2263bdd3e08a9f7d69d9cc8d unsubscribe -Andrew __________________________________________________________________ To pretend to satisfy one's desires by possessions is like putting out a fire with straw. CHINESE PROVERB __________________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Fri Mar 28 23:03:12 1997 >From kflint Fri Mar 28 14:01:19 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wAji1-0000yJ-00; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 14:01:17 -0800 Message-ID: <333C32ED.79F1@nyfac.com> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 16:06:53 -0500 From: nyfac X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: SansAmp (was Stage monitors) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LgGzMC.A.6i.56DPz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2419 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 14:01:17 -0800 X-UIDL: 70e0d3519a0d78a1a9e01101cac42d6b Kim Corbet wrote: what's a hot plate? A hot plate soaks up some of the power amp output to the speakers, allowing you to run your power amp full tilt at a reasonable volume. Trev From ???@??? Fri Mar 28 23:03:08 1997 >From kflint Fri Mar 28 13:22:31 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wAj6T-0005Pe-00; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 13:22:29 -0800 Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 15:16:49 -0600 (CST) From: Kim Corbet Subject: Re: SansAmp (was Stage monitors) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"RqIdX.A.CmE.DVDPz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2417 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 13:22:29 -0800 X-UIDL: a3b8339e3207edc868b6f197df286407 > However, when I ran the SansAmp directly into the board, I could not get > the warm sound I had using the Boogie power amp and speaker. ...............uh-oh. I'm going to pick up a SansAmp this afternoon and was hoping it would allow me to leave the boogie at home now and then. Warmth is such an important part of the soul of the guitar to me...looking forward to see if the variety is enough compensation (at least for rehearsals). Thanks for the details of your experimentation. > guitar into the PSA-1 --> Fender tube reverb --> Boogie tube power amp --> > THD Hot plate --> Celestion Greenbacks. ..................what's a hot plate? From ???@??? Fri Mar 28 23:03:11 1997 >From kflint Fri Mar 28 13:38:08 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wAjLY-0006jy-00; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 13:38:04 -0800 Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 16:40:38 -0500 (EST) From: Floyd Miller X-Sender: floyd@omni1 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: SansAmp (was Stage monitors) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"RJLIc.A.k7F.UlDPz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2418 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 13:38:04 -0800 X-UIDL: 2e84e9df3aa5868c3542fe159dedc80a On Fri, 28 Mar 1997, Kim Corbet wrote: > ...............uh-oh. I'm going to pick up a SansAmp this afternoon and > was hoping it would allow me to leave the boogie at home now and then. > Warmth is such an important part of the soul of the guitar to me... With some adjusting of the PSA-1's controls you ought to be able to get some warmth. All I can say is try it out. From ???@??? Fri Mar 28 23:02:38 1997 >From kflint Fri Mar 28 11:48:55 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wAhds-0005Re-00; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 11:48:52 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 14:25:06 PST Subject: Chapman Stick/Jamman MIDI Message-ID: <19970328.143928.8271.24.JesseKudler@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,4-5,9-12 From: jessekudler@juno.com (Jesse G Kudler) Resent-Message-ID: <"o-ZpyB.A.xuE.k-BPz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2413 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 11:48:52 -0800 X-UIDL: 5cd9f36f50ac7dec04d42a6aadf8f0ad Two questions: What is the Chapman Stick? I see it mentioned around these parts all the time, but I have no idea what it is. Is it just a regular guitar that's favored by looper types for some reason, or does it do something special? Also, I'm sure this topic has been covered before, but I want to know about a MIDI controller for my Jamman. I have no idea what I need, how much I should be paying, etc. If someone can refer me to a web page or something, that would be useful too. Thanks, Jesse From ???@??? Fri Mar 28 23:03:13 1997 >From kflint Fri Mar 28 14:37:01 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wAkGa-0003tt-00; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 14:37:00 -0800 Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 16:28:43 -0600 (CST) From: Kim Corbet Subject: Re: SansAmp (was Stage monitors) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <333C32ED.79F1@nyfac.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"YPirVC.A.QED.kYEPz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2420 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 14:37:00 -0800 X-UIDL: 88273c3a6ebf066ad97920068296ad8d > A hot plate soaks up some of the power amp output to the speakers, > allowing you to run your power amp full tilt at a reasonable volume. > Trev > .....thanks, trev. As a guitar novice, thanks for the list's patience at what must be some pretty obvious answer questions as I tweak my set-up. If any of you guys wanna know about trombone, accordion or French onion soup recipes, I'd be happy to reciprocate...I'm learning alot here. From ???@??? Fri Mar 28 23:03:15 1997 >From kflint Fri Mar 28 14:59:23 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wAkcD-0005jy-00; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 14:59:21 -0800 Message-ID: <333C68DB.2A84@interaccess.com> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 16:56:59 -0800 From: Jim Coker X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: direct to board References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"YEI_f.A.pKF.3yEPz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2421 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 14:59:21 -0800 X-UIDL: 008b08febdc20fc1e90a0488677565ca Dave Trenkel wrote: > > > > >Do you have the SansAmp yet? I've heard good things about it. How do > >you like it? (if you have it) > > I've had a GSP2101 for a while, and had a chance to compare it's tube sounds 1 on 1 w/ a sansamp PSA/1. In general, they're both very flexible and good sounding, but I felt that the tubes had a bit more complex and interesting crunchiness to them. jim From ???@??? Fri Mar 28 23:03:19 1997 >From kflint Fri Mar 28 16:56:36 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wAmRe-0007KQ-00; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 16:56:34 -0800 Message-ID: <333C69B3.5448@crystalball.com> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 19:00:35 -0600 From: "Mikell D. Nelson" Reply-To: mnelson@crystalball.com Organization: Boomerang Musical Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Chapman Stick/Jamman MIDI References: <19970328.143928.8271.24.JesseKudler@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"0rzAP.A.ZkG.ofGPz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2422 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 16:56:34 -0800 X-UIDL: 0b3857ff75cc3eba9802f20f314d79e5 Jesse G Kudler wrote: > What is the Chapman Stick? I see it mentioned around these parts all the > time, but I have no idea what it is. Is it just a regular guitar that's > favored by looper types for some reason, or does it do something > special? The Chapman Stick is a tapping instrument. It's got strings and frets but is set up for hammer-on style playing - a technique that makes the guitar somewhat piano like, in that either hand can play any note without the other being involved. They come in a variety of configurations, but I believe the standard instrument has 10 strings. They don't look at all like a guitar. Another related instrument is the Warr Guitar, named for it's creator. These appear very similar to a solid body guitar, but are optimized for tapping. I think the most common version has 8 strings. This is what Trey Gunn uses when he plays with King Crimson. Warr Guitar has a page with temptingly goreous pictures at http://www.warrguitars.com . By the way, Trey Gunn is a Boomerang Phrase Sampler owner. Sorry, couldn't stop myself. -- == Motley == -- From ???@??? Fri Mar 28 23:03:23 1997 >From kflint Fri Mar 28 19:06:21 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wAoTE-0000Dg-00; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 19:06:20 -0800 Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 22:03:51 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: hporter@UAkron.Edu (Hayden Porter) Subject: loops and the web Resent-Message-ID: <"w-3uTC.A.hC.baIPz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2423 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 19:06:20 -0800 X-UIDL: 56be816c4435db656b15681f096d7fd7 Hi, I am new to the list. I dont know if this thread has been around before but I would like to get your thoughts regarding looped music on web pages. I am also looking for interesting examples web sites that effectivly use looping of several audio or midi files at the same time. I think there could be some really interesting types of "web installations" that could take full advantage of the musical concept of looping. I recently came across this web site: http://www.inkalesh.com/index.html What interests me about this site is how the user can interact with the music by starting play,stoping play and mixing the volumes of several different simultaneous looping audio files. Any thoughts on this topic would be greatly appreciated. Sincerely, Hayden Porter hporter@UAkron.edu From ???@??? Fri Mar 28 23:03:30 1997 >From kflint Fri Mar 28 19:58:56 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wApI7-0003E1-00; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 19:58:55 -0800 X-Sender: jtaylor@popmail.scsn.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: jtaylor@scsn.net (Jay Taylor) Subject: Re: SansAmp (was Stage monitors) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 22:48:52 -0500 Message-ID: <19970329034851386.AAA158@j> Resent-Message-ID: <"1H2H.A.XxC.4JJPz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2424 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 19:58:55 -0800 X-UIDL: 7f04a3c29480305aa5170704de0def06 i've got a thd hot plate too, and it is a great unit. its function is to soak power headed for the speakers, just a little bit or completely. i run a marshall midi preamp into an engl amp and out to the hot plate and into a hughes and kettner red box III and into the tape machine. i think it sounds very good. i'm wondering what a sans amp would do at the front end. i can't recall thd's address. somewhere in washington or oregon. check one of the guitar magazines. they make great amps too. the hot plate got a favorable review in guitar player. it supposedly is the best of the lot. jay At 03:16 PM 3/28/97 -0600, you wrote: >> However, when I ran the SansAmp directly into the board, I could not get >> the warm sound I had using the Boogie power amp and speaker. >...............uh-oh. I'm going to pick up a SansAmp this afternoon and >was hoping it would allow me to leave the boogie at home now and then. >Warmth is such an important part of the soul of the guitar to me...looking >forward to see if the variety is enough compensation (at least for >rehearsals). Thanks for the details of your experimentation. > >> guitar into the PSA-1 --> Fender tube reverb --> Boogie tube power amp --> >> THD Hot plate --> Celestion Greenbacks. >..................what's a hot plate? > > From ???@??? Sat Mar 29 00:24:26 1997 >From kflint Fri Mar 28 23:20:48 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wAsRS-000626-00; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 23:20:46 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 23:15:35 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: SansAmp (was Stage monitors) Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Resent-Message-ID: <"PrHCuB.A.hiF.kJMPz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2425 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 23:20:46 -0800 X-UIDL: ed82742dd9d371fa24dc38d3742d473e Status: O X-Status: At 4:28 PM 3/28/97, Kim Corbet wrote: >If any of you guys wanna know about trombone, accordion or French onion >soup recipes, I'd be happy to reciprocate...I'm learning alot here. I'd love to hear about your experiences looping the accordian! kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sat Mar 29 00:24:32 1997 >From kflint Fri Mar 28 23:35:19 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wAsfW-0006y7-00; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 23:35:18 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970329023130.0068bf00@popmail.voicenet.com> X-Sender: floyd@popmail.voicenet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 02:35:26 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Floyd Miller Subject: Re: Soup Loops (was SansAmp (was Stage monitors)) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"pd1JNC.A.scG.cXMPz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2427 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 23:35:18 -0800 X-UIDL: a9742a93f50125c3c9900922e3d13191 >At 4:28 PM 3/28/97, Kim Corbet wrote: >>If any of you guys wanna know about trombone, accordion or French onion >>soup recipes, I'd be happy to reciprocate...I'm learning alot here. and at 11:15 PM 3/28/97 -0800, Kim Flint wrote: > >I'd love to hear about your experiences looping the accordian! > >kim > And I'd like to know what French Onion Soup tastes like when looped :) **************** ********** Floyd Miller ****** floyd@voicenet.com ** http://www.voicenet.com/~floyd From ???@??? Sat Mar 29 12:28:46 1997 >From kflint Sat Mar 29 00:42:18 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wAtiL-0001xQ-00; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 00:42:17 -0800 Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 03:39:47 -0500 (EST) From: BobbyZZZ@aol.com Message-ID: <970329033945_854241666@emout01.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: SansAmp (was Stage monitors) Resent-Message-ID: <"NtSYV.A.NwB.QWNPz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2428 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 00:42:17 -0800 X-UIDL: 430380f92e551a4523185d15597f6331 In a message dated 3/29/97 2:20:40 AM, you wrote: >At 4:28 PM 3/28/97, Kim Corbet wrote: >>If any of you guys wanna know about trombone, accordion or French onion >>soup recipes, I'd be happy to reciprocate...I'm learning alot here. > >I'd love to hear about your experiences looping the accordian! > >kim y'know, i'd be into the trombone loops myself, THOSE would be some interesting loops....but of course the accordian would be great too....:-) bobby d From ???@??? Sat Mar 29 12:28:49 1997 >From kflint Sat Mar 29 01:22:04 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wAuKp-0003ED-00; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 01:22:03 -0800 Message-Id: <23025.199703290920@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 09:20:43 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Feedback, Mercedes and Boogie for Beginners Resent-Message-ID: <"zVvG6D.A.v7C.k7NPz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2429 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 01:22:03 -0800 X-UIDL: d0bec08da8025257bfa9c9b96c455a6a There was a recent debate in which the Obie and JamBod were referred to as a Merc. and VW bug respectively, probably by owners (/designers) of the former ;) Lest we forget, in the history of looping people have used EH 16sec delays, DOD pds series, a tape recorder with the tape wound around distant chairs...! Let's be fair; the JM is pretty solid peice of work. If we're going for car analogies, then the Obie is probably a Merc (E or S series) - high prestige, and filled with gadgets that the owners insist they could never live without - air cond, power steering. The Lex is an Audi, BMW 3-series or Volvo - a quality, refined dirving experience which will get you from A to B in style, if not necessarily pampered. Finally, the boomerang is an off-roader - fun to drive, not necessarily the smoothest ride, but with a growing cult status. Even if it can't do the things the others can, there are places it can go that leave the others behind. After that, leave Zoom, Dod etc to fight it out for Ford.. :) John Ott described his setup:: >Yep, Digitech RP-6 (cabinette simulator) -> Mackie (with JamMan in >effect loop) -> main PA or recording. >The draw back with this setup is generating feedback, so I send a aux >out to a fender amp for use as a monitor and to generate and control feedback. > Now, this is something which concerns me greatly - what governs feedback? I had a Lab Series L9 until recently which, despite pushing 120 watts into a 15" speaker, was nigh on impossble to feed back. However, the Boogie Subway Blues will do it with the volume on 5, with reverb and mid all the way up (my fave tone). I love getting feedback on low-gain, big-reverb sounds (too much Peter Green in my youth) - the kind where you can play softly and not distort, or dig in and leave the note going forever. I've been looking at the Trace Elliot 3-channel hybrid preamp recently, but in the shop I couldn't get feedback using the (onboard) digital rvb. Is the feedback occuring due mechanical vibration feeding back at the (spring) reverb in the Boogie? If so, would connecting a rackmount spring reverb in the FX loop of the Trace give me the potential for low-volume, low-gain feedback once more? And is it preferable to run that through a guitar amp rather than a PA? Finally, Kim Corbet wrote: >>I just started learning guitar. And then wrote >>...can they really achieve the variety I'm used to with a mesa boogie??? You're just starting... and you have a Boogie. Way to go! You've learnt the important bit already - buy The best kit! I take it you loop using a JamMan..? Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb From ???@??? Sat Mar 29 12:28:51 1997 >From kflint Sat Mar 29 01:24:47 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wAuNR-0003O2-00; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 01:24:45 -0800 Message-Id: <23054.199703290923@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 09:23:38 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Re: Looping in London 10-iv-97 Resent-Message-ID: <"jwQ2X.A.rGD.U-NPz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2430 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 01:24:45 -0800 X-UIDL: a60b102895820e570a22d784a91be2d2 David O'Torn - I mean Orton - said >>Just a brief note to say I will be adopting a solo loopist stance on April >>10th at the the Clock Tower in Croydon, London (UK) from 1pm till 2pm (lunch >>time) Another UK looper! Does that make, oh, about 3 of us? Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb From ???@??? Sat Mar 29 00:24:30 1997 >From kflint Fri Mar 28 23:24:58 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wAsVV-0006Jo-00; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 23:24:57 -0800 X-Mailer: WinNET Mail, v2.61 Message-ID: <977@mainstring.win.net> Reply-To: pk@mainstring.win.net (Pat Kirtley) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 02:02:15 Subject: re: ancient tape squeak From: pk@mainstring.win.net (Pat Kirtley) Resent-Message-ID: <"amVfyD.A.uyF.uMMPz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2426 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 23:24:57 -0800 X-UIDL: b08680319af441549569bc11c50223d0 Michael Peters wrote: >I recently dug up my ancient Revox A77 and I'm planning to salvage a >number of old tapes (some of them more than 20 years old) and copy them to >DAT. The tapes carry recordings of my first jam sessions, looping >experiments, and compositions - musically not of high value but I love >them anyway of course. > >Unfortunately, some of the tapes (cheaper brands such as Shamrock and >Sony) have a tendency to rub off their coating very quickly. The effect is >a very high pitched squeaking noise which begins faintly and gets louder >and louder. The squeaking can also be heard on the recording - the music >gets modulated and distorted and is unusable. > >Cleaning the tape heads and tapes helps only for a couple of minutes. The >squeaking noise comes back. Especially on long pieces (and I did a number >of very long pieces) this is very annoying. > >If anyone has found a remedy for this problem, please let me know. This sounds like the irksome and well-known phenomenon called "stiction". There are several possible causes and a couple of remedies to try. This problem can occur under certain circumstances even with well-adjusted machines and high quality tapes. But there is a lot of tape made in the mid and late 70's that is now shedding like crazy due to binder formulation problems. That's a widespread problem. What's happening to cause the problem is that sticky residue coming off the tape is deposited (not just on the heads but on every bearing and guiding surface) and interacts with the moving tape in a high-frequency stick / slip interaction. It's exactly the same method by which the rosin on a violin bow causes the string to vibrate. If cleaning (of ALL tape-touching surfaces) doesn't provide a workable cure, inspect the surfaces to make sure they are truly clean and very smooth. Maybe in storage, the surfaces acquired a "patina" or even a slight etching of the metal surfaces. Normal cleaning wouldn't remove this. You can find out if this has happened by playing the tapes on a known good machine and see if the problem still occurs. If the machine isn't contributing to the problem, then it can be entirely due to tape shedding. There are two possible things to try in this case: 1. Lubricate the tape. Using a silicone-based lubricant, moisten a pad and use the tape machine in "play" (with the tape bypassing the head assembly) to move the tape past the lubricant applicator. You can experiment on a moderate length of tape to see if this will work. 2. Reduce the tape tension. On the A77, this is an internal electrical adjustment. Also, if the tapes are on 10 1/2" reels, you can reduce tension by setting to the reel-size switch on the front panel to 7". See if this makes a difference in the severity of the oxide buildup. If all else fails, carefully use your finger or a felt pad to gently press the tape against the play head during playback. It may damp the vibrations enough to allow a decent one-time transfer. Good luck! PK From ???@??? Sat Mar 29 12:28:54 1997 >From kflint Sat Mar 29 05:57:29 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wAydL-0001ct-00; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 05:57:27 -0800 Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 08:54:13 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199703291354.IAA16844@shell.monmouth.com> X-Sender: andre@monmouth.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: andre Subject: ...tape squeak Resent-Message-ID: <"XQ5mr.A.ocB.u9RPz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2431 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 05:57:27 -0800 X-UIDL: f3142b20532658fc1f25ec647e2c14f9 tape squeak....?? i've gotten results the following way, depending of course on the tape and the severity of the squeak-ness: 1. rewind and ff the tape all the way SEVERAL times. this seems to get the winding evened out.. 2. in tougher cases, i've gotten those radio shack replacement cassette shells and just transported the tape over to a new home. (.."let's leave these earthly containers for new ones...") 3. throw the fucker against the wall in despair! andre' From ???@??? Sat Mar 29 12:29:30 1997 >From kflint Sat Mar 29 06:50:56 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wAzT5-0003HZ-00; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 06:50:55 -0800 Message-ID: <333D2A3D.249F@lafn.org> Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 06:42:05 -0800 From: Francis Leach Organization: lafn.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Looping in London 10-iv-97 References: <23054.199703290923@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"WPIsJB.A.q9C.jvSPz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2433 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 06:50:55 -0800 X-UIDL: 125ab1ee23ce75cf35e090e63ae75a4e Dr M. P. Hughes wrote: > > David O'Torn - I mean Orton - said > > >>Just a brief note to say I will be adopting a solo loopist stance on April > >>10th at the the Clock Tower in Croydon, London (UK) from 1pm till 2pm (lunch > >>time) > > Another UK looper! Does that make, oh, about 3 of us? > > Michael > > Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, > Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. > "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb 3 in London! And one, me, feeling isolated from you all in the newsgroup. Why? Because I don't use the same looping software and the same looping hardware that most of you use . . . let me explain. Though I am a professional musician, in 1983 I became a computer addict and began to write my own source code. The first extremely simple program I wrote was a BASIC program to play Bach's Prelude in C (well-tempered) on my /CPM Toshiba machine that played on the primite built in speaker . . . not very sophisticated . . . But then, in the next few years, I began to take college programming classes in the following languages: LISP, C, BASIC, Prolog, Logo, Pascal, etc. And tho I then had no MIDI setup, I was fascinated and quite creative in writing looping "space" music that used a combination of aleatoric and constraining devices to create a patterned music that was based on chance patterns . . . my favorite composing influences, were Steve Reich, Terry Riley, Philip Glass, etc. all of whom I became extremely interested in and how they "looped", while I spent 9 years writing classical music reviews for the Pasadena Star News. My most challenging writing about the concerts I attended were about LaMonte Young, John Cage, etc. I even attacked Cage at a party in Pasadena, in his honor, by approaching him and asking "Why don't you believe in patterned music!" His charming response to me was by smiling and saying while extending his hand in a most disarming manner, "Perhaps when you know me better!" I find him socially delightful, but though I didn't tell him, I still disliked his music immensely. But I did find people like La Monte Young, whom I interviewed, and Steve Reich . . . very intrigueing indeed . . . So during those using, I began to form theories and opinions about looping (For loop1 = 1 to 4 . . . . .next loop1)! that were reflected in my composition source code. And then, about three years ago, I bought my first polyphonic synthesizer, an old Kurzweil K1000). Years previously, I had obtained an early Roland monophonic synthesizer, and took classes at Pasadena City College on a Moog) . . . Well, I installed MIDI cards in PCs, the next couple of years, sold some computers (I had picked up many in thrift stores) to the Electronic Music Laboratory I became involved with at LACC (Los Angeles City College), began to both continue with the aleatoric music source code I both wrote myself and was a consultant on with another programmer from IBM, on and on and on . . . It's to long to tell all this, right? But to shorten my background story: I continued to be obsessed with the principle of looping, and how, in recursive usage of looping (ala "Godel, Escher, Bach"), I could gradually change the musical sound loops ((MIDI now on a Kurzweil, Roland W-50 drum machine, Cakewalk software), as they occurred). So, we arrive at this week, and I am in the midst of creating a memorial looping piece (with my sometime composing partner) based on "Heavens-Gate". It has both an elegaic sound similar to Albinoni's famous funeral piece, and Samuel Barber's "Adagio for Strings", and a recurring space music feel . . . .!!! Well, anyway, I'm isolated here in Hollywood, from you guys and I read your messages about certain looping software and hardware, and I wonder how I relate to all of you with the way I came into looping (writing my own software, etc.) without much knowledge of what was going on at the Guitar Center, etc., but instead, developing looping concepts in my Ivory Tower and musing on Steve Reich's music, etc. and how to do something similar with computer source code which I was writing . . . it did work and sometimes the bugs in my code produced the more interesting sonic results than my cleaner code . . . . Happy Easter! From ???@??? Sat Mar 29 12:29:28 1997 >From kflint Sat Mar 29 06:50:36 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wAzSk-0003GD-00; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 06:50:34 -0800 Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 09:46:49 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199703291446.JAA21426@shell.monmouth.com> X-Sender: andre@monmouth.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: andre Subject: Re: Chapman Stick/Jamman MIDI Resent-Message-ID: <"hl8IvC.A.F7C.-uSPz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2432 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 06:50:34 -0800 X-UIDL: b81b610bf58c113d02038f2dacb138c2 At 02:25 PM 3/28/97 PST, you wrote: >Two questions: >What is the Chapman Stick? I see it mentioned around these parts all the >time, but I have no idea what it is. Is it just a regular guitar that's >favored by looper types for some reason, or does it do something >special? > It's a unique 10 string (sometimes more) instrument - check out any live shots of Tony Levin (best known(??) proponent of the stick) with King Crimson or peter Gabriel, etc etc.. You play with a tapping-oriented technique- and the range of the instrument overlapps guitar and bass and beyond. great invention - search the web - i'm sure emmett chapman has a site... >Also, I'm sure this topic has been covered before, but I want to know >about a MIDI controller for my Jamman. web info on ground control midid pedals, midi-mitigator, or several by digitech are good places to check on..... andre'> From ???@??? Sat Mar 29 12:29:33 1997 >From kflint Sat Mar 29 08:47:09 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wB1HX-0007J9-00; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 08:47:07 -0800 Message-Id: <199703291640.LAA18725@nico.bway.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 11:45:34 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: dmgraph@bway.net (David Myers) Subject: 'Plex noise gate Resent-Message-ID: <"QhH1-D.A.fvG.ScUPz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2434 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 08:47:07 -0800 X-UIDL: c45b11708bb0e89e1b55cbc1bc3be22e Kim: I've been waiting for a response to my post of a few days ago, but all I've heard from you is something about onion soup, so I'll try the direct approach. In brief, the noise gate is ruining everything I've tried to do lately. Hit a big distortion chord and let it die out gradually-within a few seconds the gate starts chopping it up. Most of my sounds are being pumped like this, and I'm hoping there is a way to get around the gate. Please?! I don't care so much about improved "undo" performance-with this gate, I'll have to look elsewhere for my main looper. Thanks-David From ???@??? Sat Mar 29 12:29:35 1997 >From kflint Sat Mar 29 11:35:59 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wB3uw-0006m4-00; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 11:35:58 -0800 Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 13:34:01 -0600 (CST) From: Kim Corbet Subject: re: ancient tape squeak To: Pat Kirtley cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <977@mainstring.win.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"IWpWwC.A.MPG.q6WPz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2435 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 11:35:58 -0800 X-UIDL: facb536e475f6aee768beed404e1ed9b > >Unfortunately, some of the tapes (cheaper brands such as Shamrock and > >Sony) have a tendency to rub off their coating very quickly. The effect is > >a very high pitched squeaking noise which begins faintly and gets louder > >and louder. The squeaking can also be heard on the recording - the music > >gets modulated and distorted and is unusable. > >If anyone has found a remedy for this problem, please let me know. ....okay, this sounded bizarre when I first heard about it, but I believe Bruce Richardson (73422.3357@compuserv.com) had a recent studio project where he had to salvage an archiv of ancient tapes and used a, get this, baking process in his kitchen oven...that somehow re-applied the material to the tape. I don't know temps or other details, but I'm sure he'd be happy to share his family recipe. From ???@??? Sat Mar 29 21:45:56 1997 >From kflint Sat Mar 29 12:48:07 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wB52k-000231-00; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 12:48:06 -0800 Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 14:46:34 -0600 (CST) From: Kim Corbet Subject: Re: Feedback, Mercedes and Boogie for Beginners To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <23025.199703290920@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"I7NYvC.A.p0B.r-XPz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2436 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 12:48:06 -0800 X-UIDL: f257015056ba39c14f6d9876261df718 > >>...can they really achieve the variety I'm used to with a mesa boogie??? > > You're just starting... and you have a Boogie. Way to go! You've learnt > the important bit already - buy The best kit! I take it you loop using a > JamMan..? ..........I've been lucky to have played with some great guitarists in Dallas and the amp I've always loved was Joe Lee's Boogie (he probably has one of everything they've put out the last 20 years). So, when I had a chance to pick one up used for 4 bills, I jumped. I have a jambooty and boomerang and, based on Kim's description of the Plex, I had to order one of those, too. I love using different devices because they all, as you so aptly point out, have their unique capabilities. Sometimes, if I'm using keyboards, guitar and an acoustic source, I like bussing everything into a Mackey and building separate loops that can stand alone or overlap. I use volume pedals to fade or bail as the need arises. Some have asked about the accordion loops. Well, it's no different from trombone or vocal loops...I found a great used instrument with built-in pick-ups in a Portland, Ore pawn shop. I grew up playing accordion, but never really liked the sound of the bass/chords, so I primarily use the piano side with its great variety of stops. One possibility...get a chordal rhythm or sustain cloud going with one of the 2-octave patches and pick up a melodica to add a few counterlines (on the second looper). Since the jamham is cleaner, I usually reserve it for the foreground. Well, it just depends on how I want to blend the different timbres really. I might fade one of the loops as I add trombone lines on top, often through a whammy II harmonizing pedal (a fine toy for turning a single horn into a section) and reverb/chorus of a Lexicon LXP-5. Ah, the black hole of modern technology...and I definitely agree, get the best sounding gear you can afford, look for stuff that most sounds like "you". It'll speak to you and let you know it's right for your music. somehow. From ???@??? Sat Mar 29 21:45:57 1997 >From kflint Sat Mar 29 15:03:48 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wB7A3-0007nL-00; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 15:03:47 -0800 Message-Id: <199703292304.PAA10286@dsp.net> From: "James Reynolds" To: Subject: Re: Looping Trombone and Accordion (was Feedback, Mercedes, Boogie...) Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 14:57:02 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1160 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VDw2XB.A.bGH.Y7ZPz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2437 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 15:03:47 -0800 X-UIDL: 78e5af7c1487a86c0e0d9560e4672ebd > Some have asked about the accordion loops. Well, it's no different from > trombone or vocal loops... as long as we're on the topic of looping trombone and accordion - the loop-inclined should check out the CD "deep listening" by pauline oliveros, stuart dempster, and panaiotis. it features the three musicians improvising in an old underground 2-million gallon cistern (empty, apparently) which featured a 45-second natural reverberation time (no kidding - they timed it). instrumentation includes trombone, accordion, didjeridu, voice, garden hose, whistling, conch shell, pipes, and metal pieces. the effect is incredible - the tones are not "muddied" by the space, it's not chaos - but it's still impossible to tell when dempster switches from trombone to didjeridu. the spooky accordion chords swelling in and out are mesmerizing. the music stays interesting by metamorphosing constantly. it's very tasty stuff. james From ???@??? Sat Mar 29 21:46:02 1997 >From kflint Sat Mar 29 17:33:49 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wB9VE-0006OV-00; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 17:33:48 -0800 Message-Id: Date: Sat, 29 Mar 97 19:31 CST From: "kim corbet" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Looping Trombone and Accordion (was Feedback, Mercedes, Boogie... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: POPmail 2.3b2 Resent-Message-ID: <"e5Ald.A.82F.BKcPz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2438 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 17:33:48 -0800 X-UIDL: 8159d9454578f455f6ab508c013685fa > the loop-inclined should check out the CD "deep listening" by pauline > oliveros, stuart dempster, and panaiotis...the music stays interesting by > metamorphosing constantly. ....I second that suggestion. You might also look for Dempster's "In the Great Abbey of Clement VI(or IV?)"...also trombone and doo. The broken chord "loops" are likewise pristine and majestic. Pauline Oliveros is very excited about the Deep Listening ensemble. I used to do some performances with her and Stuart back in the 80s have nerve-tingling neckhair stories of her tremendous musical magic. And, by the sounds of it, they've got one helluva project going these days. You might check out her "deep listening" websites fo mo info. One of the sometimes collaborateurs, Ellen Fullman, designs and builds these super-length string installation instruments, played by walking the 80-foot plus strings with rosened fingers...as incredible to see as to hear, beautifully sustained, loopish sonorities played in stately rituals. Definitely worth checking out. From ???@??? Sun Mar 30 15:38:37 1997 >From kflint Sun Mar 30 04:29:09 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wBJjP-00054B-00; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 04:29:07 -0800 Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 07:25:31 -0500 From: Michael Peters Subject: RE: ancient tape squeak To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Message-ID: <199703300725_MC2-1375-A3FD@compuserve.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"uh5qEB.A.viE.WwlPz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2439 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 04:29:07 -0800 X-UIDL: e6d31de4e3866e80460d4f0d4f570f09 hi Pat, thanks for your detailed response!! Sounds like this could really help. Michael Peters mpeters@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters HOP - Fractals in Motion ..."the only screen saver you'll ever want" http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters/hop.htm From ???@??? Sun Mar 30 15:38:38 1997 >From kflint Sun Mar 30 04:29:27 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wBJji-00055u-00; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 04:29:26 -0800 Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 07:25:36 -0500 From: Michael Peters Subject: RE: ...tape squeak To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Message-ID: <199703300725_MC2-1375-A3FF@compuserve.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"S0wG.A.rjE.ewlPz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2440 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 04:29:26 -0800 X-UIDL: ccdc4b21da15cf6b166c8363ed9d5982 Andre: > 3. throw the fucker against the wall in despair! That's of course the first thing that came to my mind. Maybe I'll end up doing just that but guess I'll try the other recipes first. Thanks!! Michael Peters mpeters@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters HOP - Fractals in Motion ..."the only screen saver you'll ever want" http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters/hop.htm From ???@??? Sun Mar 30 15:38:39 1997 >From kflint Sun Mar 30 04:29:44 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wBJjz-00057a-00; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 04:29:43 -0800 Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 07:25:47 -0500 From: Michael Peters Subject: isolated here in Hollywood To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Message-ID: <199703300725_MC2-1375-A401@compuserve.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"GXwV3.A.TlE.pwlPz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2442 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 04:29:43 -0800 X-UIDL: 6efc526040a8fd001b616d2016c7c066 hi Francis, >I wonder how I relate to all of you with the way I came into looping (writing my >own software, etc.) without much knowledge of what was going on at the >Guitar Center, etc., but instead, developing looping concepts in my Ivory >Tower and musing on Steve Reich's music, etc. and how to do something >similar with computer source code which I was writing Yes it might seem like we're looping guitarists only but there are a couple of other instrumentalists here, we've had quite a number of discussions about computer-generated or -controlled loops, and the minimalists are without doubt one of the major influences for most of us. I'd love to learn more about you and your work on our "Personal Profiles" page - if you want to be present on this page, please send the info to me, and I'll work it in. I'd also love to hear your opinion about my little "history of looping" article from our website - you seem to be quite familiar with the minimalist roots of looping, and maybe you can correct or contribute something. Michael Peters mpeters@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters HOP - Fractals in Motion ..."the only screen saver you'll ever want" http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters/hop.htm -----Original Message----- From: INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Sent: Saturday, March 29, 1997 3:56 PM To: INTERNET:LOOPERS-DELIGHT@ANNIHILIST.COM Subject: Re: Looping in London 10-iv-97 Sender: lists@slip.net Received: from ferret (ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6]) by arl-img-1.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id JAA17013; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 09:49:58 -0500 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wAzS4-0003DF-00; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 06:49:52 -0800 Message-ID: <333D2A3D.249F@lafn.org> Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 06:42:05 -0800 From: Francis Leach Organization: lafn.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Looping in London 10-iv-97 References: <23054.199703290923@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"WPIsJB.A.q9C.jvSPz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2433 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: 100041.247@compuserve.com Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 06:49:52 -0800 Dr M. P. Hughes wrote: > > David O'Torn - I mean Orton - said > > >>Just a brief note to say I will be adopting a solo loopist stance on April > >>10th at the the Clock Tower in Croydon, London (UK) from 1pm till 2pm (lunch > >>time) > > Another UK looper! Does that make, oh, about 3 of us? > > Michael > > Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, > Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. > "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb 3 in London! And one, me, feeling isolated from you all in the newsgroup. Why? Because I don't use the same looping software and the same looping hardware that most of you use . . . let me explain. Though I am a professional musician, in 1983 I became a computer addict and began to write my own source code. The first extremely simple program I wrote was a BASIC program to play Bach's Prelude in C (well-tempered) on my /CPM Toshiba machine that played on the primite built in speaker . . . not very sophisticated . . . But then, in the next few years, I began to take college programming classes in the following languages: LISP, C, BASIC, Prolog, Logo, Pascal, etc. And tho I then had no MIDI setup, I was fascinated and quite creative in writing looping "space" music that used a combination of aleatoric and constraining devices to create a patterned music that was based on chance patterns . . . my favorite composing influences, were Steve Reich, Terry Riley, Philip Glass, etc. all of whom I became extremely interested in and how they "looped", while I spent 9 years writing classical music reviews for the Pasadena Star News. My most challenging writing about the concerts I attended were about LaMonte Young, John Cage, etc. I even attacked Cage at a party in Pasadena, in his honor, by approaching him and asking "Why don't you believe in patterned music!" His charming response to me was by smiling and saying while extending his hand in a most disarming manner, "Perhaps when you know me better!" I find him socially delightful, but though I didn't tell him, I still disliked his music immensely. But I did find people like La Monte Young, whom I interviewed, and Steve Reich . . . very intrigueing indeed . . . So during those using, I began to form theories and opinions about looping (For loop1 = 1 to 4 . . . . .next loop1)! that were reflected in my composition source code. And then, about three years ago, I bought my first polyphonic synthesizer, an old Kurzweil K1000). Years previously, I had obtained an early Roland monophonic synthesizer, and took classes at Pasadena City College on a Moog) . . . Well, I installed MIDI cards in PCs, the next couple of years, sold some computers (I had picked up many in thrift stores) to the Electronic Music Laboratory I became involved with at LACC (Los Angeles City College), began to both continue with the aleatoric music source code I both wrote myself and was a consultant on with another programmer from IBM, on and on and on . . . It's to long to tell all this, right? But to shorten my background story: I continued to be obsessed with the principle of looping, and how, in recursive usage of looping (ala "Godel, Escher, Bach"), I could gradually change the musical sound loops ((MIDI now on a Kurzweil, Roland W-50 drum machine, Cakewalk software), as they occurred). So, we arrive at this week, and I am in the midst of creating a memorial looping piece (with my sometime composing partner) based on "Heavens-Gate". It has both an elegaic sound similar to Albinoni's famous funeral piece, and Samuel Barber's "Adagio for Strings", and a recurring space music feel . . . .!!! Well, anyway, I'm isolated here in Hollywood, from you guys and I read your messages about certain looping software and hardware, and I wonder how I relate to all of you with the way I came into looping (writing my own software, etc.) without much knowledge of what was going on at the Guitar Center, etc., but instead, developing looping concepts in my Ivory Tower and musing on Steve Reich's music, etc. and how to do something similar with computer source code which I was writing . . . it did work and sometimes the bugs in my code produced the more interesting sonic results than my cleaner code . . . . Happy Easter! From ???@??? Sun Mar 30 15:38:42 1997 >From kflint Sun Mar 30 04:29:47 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wBJk2-00057t-00; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 04:29:46 -0800 Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 07:25:49 -0500 From: Michael Peters Subject: looping the accordion To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Message-ID: <199703300725_MC2-1375-A403@compuserve.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"zIyy0.A.skE.kwlPz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2441 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 04:29:46 -0800 X-UIDL: 518e842d141bb19c40884ab49ca3182b > I'd love to hear about your experiences looping the accordian! Yes, Pauline Oliveros has used loops with her "Deep Listening" band, but she also used to loop the accordion in wonderful solo concerts. If you ever have the chance to see her play, definitely go, it's looping at its very best. Michael Peters mpeters@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters HOP - Fractals in Motion ..."the only screen saver you'll ever want" http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters/hop.htm From ???@??? Sun Mar 30 15:38:43 1997 >From kflint Sun Mar 30 06:51:28 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wBLx9-00006f-00; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 06:51:27 -0800 Date: Sun, 30 Mar 97 09:53:14 -0500 From: "" Message-Id: <9703301453.AA28520@lucille.Princeton.EDU> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: change loop speed via MIDI? Resent-Message-ID: <"2ezgyD.A.2B.c2nPz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2443 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 06:51:27 -0800 X-UIDL: ac8944801e0cc1baceff651e76404d05 hey loopers, I'm new to the group and I have a question: Is there a loop machine available that allows dynamic "detuning" (or changing the speed of a loop) via MIDI in performance while overdubbung? It would be nice if the memory of the device was expandable to > 30 seconds. My old deltalab echotron can be dynamically controlled but no MIDI and the memory is small. I talked to TC Electronics and they said that the memory chips for the 2090 were not available any more so it would be very difficult to upgrade beyond the installed 4 secs. The person I talked to knew that aspects of the modulation of the loop could be controlled via MIDI but wasn't sure if there was full expressive control of the loop speed. The information I have seen about the Akai remix talks about a bend function but I don't know how flexible or MIDI addressable it is, or whether the detuning works while overlaying. I guess what I am looking for would be a MIDI version of the electroharmonics 16 second delay with more memory ( and less of a "collectors item" status). thanks! any tips would be appreciated! Curtis Bahn crb@music.princeton.edu From ???@??? Sun Mar 30 15:38:46 1997 >From kflint Sun Mar 30 08:15:14 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wBNGC-0003BE-00; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 08:15:12 -0800 Message-ID: <333E8FDE.4D46@lafn.org> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 08:07:58 -0800 From: Francis Leach Organization: lafn.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: isolated here in Hollywood References: <199703300725_MC2-1375-A401@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"x4am_B.A.cuC.-BpPz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2444 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 08:15:12 -0800 X-UIDL: 1514c22acc8693115bcb44ddb0908ee6 Michael Peters wrote: > > hi Francis, > > >I wonder how I relate to all of you with the way I came into looping > (writing my > >own software, etc.) without much knowledge of what was going on at the > >Guitar Center, etc., but instead, developing looping concepts in my Ivory > >Tower and musing on Steve Reich's music, etc. and how to do something > >similar with computer source code which I was writing > > Yes it might seem like we're looping guitarists only but there are a couple > of other instrumentalists here, we've had quite a number of discussions > about computer-generated or -controlled loops, and the minimalists are > without doubt one of the major influences for most of us. > > I'd love to learn more about you and your work on our "Personal Profiles" > page - if you want to be present on this page, please send the info to me, > and I'll work it in. > > I'd also love to hear your opinion about my little "history of looping" > article from our website - you seem to be quite familiar with the > minimalist roots of looping, and maybe you can correct or contribute > something. > > Michael Peters > mpeters@compuserve.com > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters > > HOP - Fractals in Motion ..."the only screen saver you'll ever want" > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters/hop.htm > > -----Original Message----- > From: INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Sent: Saturday, March 29, 1997 3:56 PM > To: INTERNET:LOOPERS-DELIGHT@ANNIHILIST.COM > Subject: Re: Looping in London 10-iv-97 > > Sender: lists@slip.net > Received: from ferret (ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6]) by > arl-img-1.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) > id JAA17013; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 09:49:58 -0500 > Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) > id 0wAzS4-0003DF-00; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 06:49:52 -0800 > Message-ID: <333D2A3D.249F@lafn.org> > Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 06:42:05 -0800 > From: Francis Leach > Organization: lafn.org > X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Win16; I) > MIME-Version: 1.0 > To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Subject: Re: Looping in London 10-iv-97 > References: <23054.199703290923@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Resent-Message-ID: <"WPIsJB.A.q9C.jvSPz"@ferret> > Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2433 > X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Precedence: list > Resent-Sender: SmartList > Resent-To: 100041.247@compuserve.com > Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 06:49:52 -0800 > > Dr M. P. Hughes wrote: > > > > David O'Torn - I mean Orton - said > > > > >>Just a brief note to say I will be adopting a solo loopist stance on > April > > >>10th at the the Clock Tower in Croydon, London (UK) from 1pm till 2pm > (lunch > > >>time) > > > > Another UK looper! Does that make, oh, about 3 of us? > > > > Michael > > > > Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine > Bldg, > > Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, > U.K. > > "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb > > 3 in London! And one, me, feeling isolated from you all in the > newsgroup. Why? > > Because I don't use the same looping software and the same looping > hardware that most of you use . . . let me explain. > > Though I am a professional musician, in 1983 I became a computer addict > and began to write my own source code. The first extremely simple > program I wrote was a BASIC program to play Bach's Prelude in C > (well-tempered) on my /CPM Toshiba machine that played on the primite > built in speaker . . . not very sophisticated . . . > > But then, in the next few years, I began to take college programming > classes in the following languages: LISP, C, BASIC, Prolog, Logo, > Pascal, etc. > > And tho I then had no MIDI setup, I was fascinated and quite creative in > writing looping "space" music that used a combination of aleatoric and > constraining devices to create a patterned music that was based on chance > patterns . . . my favorite composing influences, were Steve Reich, Terry > Riley, Philip Glass, etc. all of whom I became extremely interested in > and how they "looped", while I spent 9 years writing classical music > reviews for the Pasadena Star News. My most challenging writing about > the concerts I attended were about LaMonte Young, John Cage, etc. I even > attacked Cage at a party in Pasadena, in his honor, by approaching him > and asking "Why don't you believe in patterned music!" His charming > response to me was by smiling and saying while extending his hand in a > most disarming manner, "Perhaps when you know me better!" I find him > socially delightful, but though I didn't tell him, I still disliked his > music immensely. But I did find people like La Monte Young, whom I > interviewed, and Steve Reich . . . very intrigueing indeed . . . > > So during those using, I began to form theories and opinions about > looping (For loop1 = 1 to 4 . . . . .next loop1)! that were reflected in > my composition source code. And then, about three years ago, I bought my > first polyphonic synthesizer, an old Kurzweil K1000). Years previously, > I had obtained an early Roland monophonic synthesizer, and took classes > at Pasadena City College on a Moog) . . . > > Well, I installed MIDI cards in PCs, the next couple of years, sold some > computers (I had picked up many in thrift stores) to the Electronic Music > Laboratory I became involved with at LACC (Los Angeles City College), > began to both continue with the aleatoric music source code I both wrote > myself and was a consultant on with another programmer from IBM, on and > on and on . . . > > It's to long to tell all this, right? > > But to shorten my background story: I continued to be obsessed with the > principle of looping, and how, in recursive usage of looping (ala "Godel, > Escher, Bach"), I could gradually change the musical sound loops ((MIDI > now on a Kurzweil, Roland W-50 drum machine, Cakewalk software), as they > occurred). > > So, we arrive at this week, and I am in the midst of creating a memorial > looping piece (with my sometime composing partner) based on > "Heavens-Gate". It has both an elegaic sound similar to Albinoni's > famous funeral piece, and Samuel Barber's "Adagio for Strings", and a > recurring space music feel . . . .!!! > > Well, anyway, I'm isolated here in Hollywood, from you guys and I read > your messages about certain looping software and hardware, and I wonder > how I relate to all of you with the way I came into looping (writing my > own software, etc.) without much knowledge of what was going on at the > Guitar Center, etc., but instead, developing looping concepts in my Ivory > Tower and musing on Steve Reich's music, etc. and how to do something > similar with computer source code which I was writing . . . it did work > and sometimes the bugs in my code produced the more interesting sonic > results than my cleaner code . . . . > >Thank you Michael Peters, very much: I'll very definitely find the personal profiles which I suppose are at www.Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com and fill one out . . . I'm also looking forward to reading your essay on the history of looping. I appreciate your answer . . . Ciao Francis Leach From ???@??? Sun Mar 30 15:38:48 1997 >From kflint Sun Mar 30 08:26:16 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wBNQt-0003k9-00; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 08:26:15 -0800 Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 08:13:13 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: West Coast Loop Show (Take 2) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"9GFAqD.A.LZD.OOpPz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2445 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 08:26:15 -0800 X-UIDL: 9a410fdb500602e8cde18f4412172a32 Hi all -- After hearing the enthusiastic reviews of the East Coast loop shows, I'm tempted to re-suggest my initial idea for trying to stage a West Coast version. To re-cap, the notion of staging a multi-artist looping concert in California was first bandied about the list at the end of last October, with the initial idea being to try and bring together any and all interested parties for a multi-artist show. Before long, it was suggested that this be divided into two seperate shows, one for Northern Cali and one for the SoCal region, owing to both the logistical hassles of trying to find a single convenient localle and the problem of trying to squeeze around 10 performers onto a single bill (one of the first comments from interested individuals seemed to be that the initially proposed limitation of an hour for a set length would be undesirably restrictive). At any rate, the idea never really got off the ground, owing no doubt to the considerable difficulties in organizing a show of this sort. Still, we now have real-world evidence that it can, in fact, be done. So who here on the West Coast is interested and/or willing to try and make it happen? --Andre From ???@??? Sun Mar 30 15:38:53 1997 >From kflint Sun Mar 30 11:07:44 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wBPx8-0005S6-00; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 11:07:42 -0800 Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 14:04:53 -0500 (EST) From: KemMc@aol.com Message-ID: <970330140452_738993802@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Loopers-Delight-d Digest V97 #50 Resent-Message-ID: <"4qxpz.A.G_E.SmrPz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2446 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 11:07:42 -0800 X-UIDL: 88ecab19b84550d92247c792936bda68 Hi, fellow loopers I have been looking for a contact surface transducer or contact driver, which is a small device that you attach to a wall, glass, anything and apply a sound source, and it turns the wall or glass into a speaker. I want to feed my guitar signal to this tranduces and hook the transducer to my guitar , instant feedback of great loops. I hope the looper collective can find one of these contact drivers it would be good for all. Thanks KemMc@aol.com From ???@??? Sun Mar 30 15:38:54 1997 >From kflint Sun Mar 30 11:36:22 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wBQOp-0007PS-00; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 11:36:19 -0800 Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 14:33:22 -0500 From: Michael Peters Subject: RE: isolated here in Hollywood To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Message-ID: <199703301433_MC2-1378-9BC5@compuserve.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"hTrl5C.A.21G.bBsPz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2447 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 11:36:19 -0800 X-UIDL: a8548412ea8bcdcd116006ca8f925fbb Francis, > I'll very definitely find the personal profiles which I suppose are at > www.Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com and fill one out almost ... the main Looper's Delight page is http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html and the profiles and the little history essay are somewhere on subpages, you'll find them. Michael Peters mpeters@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters HOP - Fractals in Motion ..."the only screen saver you'll ever want" http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters/hop.htm From ???@??? Sun Mar 30 15:38:58 1997 >From kflint Sun Mar 30 12:05:21 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wBQqt-0001Xc-00; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 12:05:19 -0800 Posted-Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 22:03:29 +0200 (MET DST) Sender: rob@pi.net Message-ID: <333ED4F3.51A8AA3A@pi.net> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 23:02:43 +0200 From: Robert van der Kamp X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; Linux 2.0.27 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Where to order a Plex Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9nY8yD.A.SWB.mcsPz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2449 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 12:05:19 -0800 X-UIDL: 9ac92d616da52b48ce987dd03de52935 Hi all, Does any one of you know where I can order an EchoPlex Digital Pro? This is Holland here, so I need it to be shipped too. The Gibson web pages say they can only take orders from within the USA. :-( I would like to know the price they go for in the States. Ordering such stuff in a music shop in Holland *may* be much more expensive, even when paying shipment, customs and taxes. So that's what I would like to find out now. Thanks, Robert From ???@??? Sun Mar 30 15:38:57 1997 >From kflint Sun Mar 30 11:42:55 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wBQVC-00001l-00; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 11:42:54 -0800 X-Mailer: WinNET Mail, v2.61 Message-ID: <983@mainstring.win.net> Reply-To: pk@mainstring.win.net (Pat Kirtley) To: PainPete@aol.com CC: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 14:11:28 Subject: Re: ancient tape squeak From: pk@mainstring.win.net (Pat Kirtley) Resent-Message-ID: <"IlPlJD.A.ZPH.cHsPz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2448 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 11:42:54 -0800 X-UIDL: 428d6a4ebb29e2632dd063aef19373eb PainPete@aol.com wrote: >>This problem can occur under certain circumstances even with >>well-adjusted machines and high quality tapes. But there is a lot of tape >>made in the mid and late 70's that is now shedding like crazy due to >>binder formulation problems. That's a widespread problem. > > >I'm not advocating this, but I've heard annecdotal evidence that with old >reel tapes with this problem, baking them (yes! in the oven!) stabilized the >binder enough to make a transfer to newer tape. Time and/or temperature >information is missing from this story, but I bet it's well below what's >required to melt plastic! > and Kim Corbet wrote: >....okay, this sounded bizarre when I first heard about it, but I believe >Bruce Richardson (73422.3357@compuserv.com) had a recent studio project >where he had to salvage an archiv of ancient tapes and used a, get this, >baking process in his kitchen oven...that somehow re-applied the material >to the tape. I don't know temps or other details, but I'm sure >he'd be happy to share his family recipe. Yes! I've heard of this technique before too. I believe the method was originated by an archivist at the Library of Congress. I went searching on the web for references and found this at: http://sul-server-2.stanford.edu/byauth/wheeler/wheeler2.html "Regardless of what format is used, the following are the most common tape problems: 1.Sticky residue or powder on tape, which makes it difficult to play the tape. 2.Binder degradation (oxide flaking off the basefilm). 3.Physical damage due to poor tape recorder maintenance. The sticky tape/powder problem can be temporarily relieved by baking the tape for at least 8 hours at 55°C (130°F) and an extreme case may require 18-24 hours. A convection oven is recommended for this procedure. This heating process makes the tape usable for a few weeks and can be repeated many times. I recommend copying any tapes that develop this problem because their long-term durability is questionable. The second problem, binder degradation, can sometimes be reversed by storing the tapes in a cold and dry environment for a couple of weeks. The third problem of tape damage is usually caused by one edge of the tape being curled and is the result of an improperly aligned tape transport. A severe case of edge damage, pleating, or creasing is usually difficult to play, but I have developed a method of correcting the problem so that the tape is at least playable..." The rest of the article at the web site is interesting, and there is also another good article at: http://palimpsest.stanford.edu/cpa/reports/sound.html entitled "The Care and Handling of Recorded Sound Materials", by: Music Division / National Library Of Canada I would caution that this drying method appears to be workable for polyester, etc. based tape formulations from the 70's and 80's, but for tapes made before the mid 60's, which use an acetate base, baking and drying could cause severe tape breakage problems. Hope this helps! Pat Kirtley From ???@??? Sun Mar 30 15:39:01 1997 >From kflint Sun Mar 30 14:55:43 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wBTVm-0004Oc-00; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 14:55:42 -0800 Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 17:52:28 -0500 From: Michael Peters Subject: RE: ancient tape squeak To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Message-ID: <199703301752_MC2-137A-F19@compuserve.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"_cVfWB.A.8_D.77uPz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2450 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 14:55:42 -0800 X-UIDL: 5ee6ab1b0e84441b18eb95dd191243ff I'd never have thought to get such a wealth of replies to my problem. Great! >The sticky tape/powder problem can be temporarily relieved by baking the >tape for at least 8 hours at 550C (1300F) and an extreme case may require >18-24 hours. My simple non-scientist brain has problems believing this. It says, tapes are made of coated plastic, and plastic is known to lose its shape and eventually burn when being heated, as everyone knows who has left a vinyl recording in the car on a hot summer's day and found it turned into some sort of sculpture after some hours. Why does excessive heat (and I'd call 8 hours of 550C excessive heat) not turn the tape into an unusable lump of stinking plastic? Michael Peters mpeters@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters HOP - Fractals in Motion ..."the only screen saver you'll ever want" http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters/hop.htm From ???@??? Sun Mar 30 15:39:02 1997 >From kflint Sun Mar 30 15:04:47 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wBTeY-0004vs-00; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 15:04:46 -0800 X-Sender: krevis@mail.blarg.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 15:08:02 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: krevis@blarg.net (Kurt Revis) Subject: RE: ancient tape squeak Resent-Message-ID: <"qDLl-D.A.HgE.IEvPz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2451 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 15:04:46 -0800 X-UIDL: 25d860a0ebf9cf6e03b3abf266a98736 >>The sticky tape/powder problem can be temporarily relieved by baking the >>tape for at least 8 hours at 550C (1300F) and an extreme case may require >>18-24 hours. > >Why does excessive heat (and I'd call 8 >hours of 550C excessive heat) not turn the tape into an unusable lump of >stinking plastic? I think they meant 55 C (130 F), which is much more believeable. Looks like something turned a degree symbol into a zero somewhere. -- Kurt Revis This world is not my home krevis@blarg.net I'm just passing through From ???@??? Sun Mar 30 19:24:42 1997 >From kflint Sun Mar 30 17:27:11 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wBVsM-000676-00; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 17:27:10 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 19:27:48 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: ronault@mindspring.com (Ron Ault) Subject: loopin' the standards Resent-Message-ID: <"Gm91eD.A.QkF.0JxPz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2454 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 17:27:10 -0800 X-UIDL: f34668a28d1e95faff5852687a239a54 Hi my name is Ron from Nashville, and I'm new to the list. I saw the 'rang at the Nashville vintage guitar show in '96, and was impressed. I'm a lo tech guitar player ('47 Gibson L-7 with Diaromnd (sp?) pickup through a '84 Fender Concert Amp) the thought of playing rhythm for my self was fascinating. I'm a Joe Pass Fan. I really have been having fun making up chord solos and stacking against my own ideas! It has added a whole new dimension to my playing. I use the Boomerang just for Ideas and to check my timing (ouch!). I have to say that as a practice tool it is really great. and easy to use. Ron Ault From ???@??? Sun Mar 30 16:50:13 1997 >From kflint Sun Mar 30 16:34:48 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wBV3g-0002cY-00; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 16:34:48 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 16:29:55 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Where to order a Plex Resent-Message-ID: <"GKR-j.A.pWC.NZwPz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2452 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 16:34:48 -0800 X-UIDL: 8e8d33e79bad0a7a26aceaa3504f97b3 Status: O X-Status: >Hi all, > >Does any one of you know where I can order an EchoPlex Digital Pro? >This is Holland here, so I need it to be shipped too. The Gibson >web pages say they can only take orders from within the USA. :-( You should contact Oberheim directly and ask them for an appropriate dealer. I'm quite certain there is one in Holland, but have no idea who it is. Oberheim's address/phone: Oberheim Synthesizers 732 Kevin Court Oakland, CA 94633 USA 510-635-9633 >I would like to know the price they go for in the States. Ordering >such stuff in a music shop in Holland *may* be much more expensive, >even when paying shipment, customs and taxes. So that's what I >would like to find out now. I think street price in the US is typically around $550 for the basic 12.5 second unit. The memory required for expanding the loop time is the ordinary SIMMs for computers. Upgrading to 200 seconds generally costs $60-$100 for the simms and is easy to do yourself. The footpedal price varies dramatically (between $100 and nothing) depending on whether the dealer is using it as a tool to entice you to buy or make himself a little extra profit. hope this helps! kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Mar 30 19:24:40 1997 >From kflint Sun Mar 30 16:54:44 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wBVMx-0003uv-00; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 16:54:43 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 16:49:02 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Feedback, Mercedes and Boogie for Beginners Resent-Message-ID: <"6v56e.A.WiD.JrwPz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2453 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 16:54:43 -0800 X-UIDL: aa1dbbbdbaf5d7887f14321326eab07f At 1:20 AM 3/29/97, Dr M. P. Hughes wrote: >Let's be fair; the JM is pretty solid peice of work. If we're going for >car analogies, then the Obie is probably a Merc (E or S series) - high >prestige, and filled with gadgets that the owners insist they could never >live without - air cond, power steering. The Lex is an Audi, BMW 3-series >or Volvo - a quality, refined dirving experience which will get you from A >to B in style, if not necessarily pampered. Finally, the boomerang is an >off-roader - fun to drive, not necessarily the smoothest ride, but with a >growing cult status. Even if it can't do the things the others can, there >are places it can go that leave the others behind. After that, leave Zoom, >Dod etc to fight it out for Ford.. :) ohhhhhhh...... will it never end? ;-) >Now, this is something which concerns me greatly - what governs feedback? >I had a Lab Series L9 until recently which, despite pushing 120 watts into >a 15" speaker, was nigh on impossble to feed back. However, the Boogie >Subway Blues will do it with the volume on 5, with reverb and mid all the >way up (my fave tone). The way the amp is designed and voiced have a lot to do with the resulting guitar feedback. Boogies sing like there's no tomorrow, (I've heard lots of good stuff about the subway blues) but most amps don't. Spring reverb vs digital reverb is not the path to feedback nirvana. My Boogie triaxis-simulclass 2:90 combo gets the feedback you are seeking at low volumes, with or without the digital intellifex reverb in the signal path. There is a boogie mailing list. (unaffiliated with the company) The people on it are very (actually, excessively) knowledgeable about guitar amps/tone etc. You can discuss the merits of NOS 6L6's to your hearts content. The details: >Hello, if you're familiar with guitar amplification then you've heard of >MESA/Boogie. There has been a MESA/Boogie email forum for over 2 years >and to subscribe all you have to do is send a message to: >listserv@wlu.edu > >in the body of the message, write > >sub boogie-talk Your Name > >example: >sub boogie-talk Graham Spice > >easy, not too much traffic, get all your questions answered fast. Sign >on and listen, write, whatever. Graham Spice kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Mar 30 19:35:34 1997 >From kflint Sun Mar 30 19:36:36 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wBXtZ-0006od-00; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 19:36:33 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 19:24:21 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: 'Plex noise gate Resent-Message-ID: <"Zc3FWD.A.EwF.y8yPz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2455 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 19:36:33 -0800 X-UIDL: b4b4c93943d3607b87b1016388f935c2 At 11:45 AM 3/29/97, David Myers wrote: >Kim: > >I've been waiting for a response to my post of a few days ago, but all I've >heard from you is something about onion soup, so I'll try the direct I never said a darn thing about onion soup! I was talking about accordians. :-) I didn't get your original post, sorry. In general though, the deal is this: I stopped working for Gibson about 10 months ago, and don't pretend to speak for them or their divisions. (like Oberheim) The help I give on echoplex questions is totally voluntary, and not out of any obligation. I'm proud of the thing and the work I did on it, and I just want to see people enjoy it and use it well. My real life is very demanding, and I actually have very little time for these sorts of questions. And I do get a lot of them. I'm more than happy to help, and I try my best to give people good answers, but sometimes it takes me a while to get to it. So please try to be patient. I don't mean to jump on you, and normally don't feel it's necessary to make silly statements like this. It's just that I've received email recently with a lot more "angry customer attitude" than seemed necessary. Sort of like the author thought I was a Gibson representative or something. If Gibson/oberheim/whoever has wronged you somehow, please direct your anger at them and not me! They have customer service people available for you to abuse. Mostly, those folks will be able to take care of your problems and as far as I know are reasonably good at that. I will be more than happy to help you if I can, but my motivation will be remarkably lower in the face of overtly misdirected hostility...... Thanks for listening to me vent. Now, your question: >approach. In brief, the noise gate is ruining everything I've tried to do >lately. Hit a big distortion chord and let it die out gradually-within a >few seconds the gate starts chopping it up. Most of my sounds are being >pumped like this, and I'm hoping there is a way to get around the gate. >Please?! I don't care so much about improved "undo" performance-with this >gate, I'll have to look elsewhere for my main looper. > >Thanks-David This was discussed to death a few months ago and I currently don't have the time or energy to do it again, so for the full version you ought to check the archives. A synopsis: - There is a noisegate on the echoplex that makes the Undo function much more usable. - A few people find it annoying, and probably don't realize how equally annoyed they would be if it wasn't there. - There is currently no way to adjust it or turn it off. - One imperfect work-around is to increase the input levels a bit to make sure you are further above the gate threshold. - Another suggestion is to use a compressor. - The designers of the echoplex are very sorry if you are affected by this problem. - Said designers (Matthias, Eric, and myself), at the expense of personal lives and relationships, will be developing and releasing echoplex software upgrades this year. The second of those will offer an adjustable gate threshold. We do not yet have a release date for that. Please avoid asking questions about upgrades for now, because spending our very limited free time on your question means less limited-free-time for working on the software! Appropriate announcements will be made at the appropriate time. - We do hope you can be patient and wait for us to finish this work, and hope that the wide variety of other echoplex features and applications can bring you some solace and pleasure in the mean time. hope this helps, kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Mon Mar 31 00:21:49 1997 >From kflint Sun Mar 30 21:21:55 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wBZXV-0006dK-00; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 21:21:53 -0800 Message-Id: Date: Sun, 30 Mar 97 23:18 CST From: "kim corbet" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: 'Plex noise gate Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: POPmail 2.3b2 Resent-Message-ID: <"63rWP.A.WBG.-k0Pz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2456 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 21:21:53 -0800 X-UIDL: d82495b2f4afcd62117c0f7a11e5841a > I never said a darn thing about onion soup! I was talking about accordians. .........sorry about the confusion. _I'm_ the onion soup kim, the kim who also plays accordion, but never worked for Gibson and is still waiting for my first echoplex, developed by, among others, the other kim, the real kim who never said a darn thing about onion soup. Actually, my chicken bascetti is far superior to the onion soup. Check out the recent issue of Option magazine. They have an interesting selected history of found sound music, including many of Cage's multi-tech pieces from '39 into the 60s. The musique concrete folks are surely our kin. From ???@??? Mon Mar 31 00:21:50 1997 >From kflint Sun Mar 30 21:55:56 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wBa4R-0001Rn-00; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 21:55:55 -0800 Message-ID: <333F5309.1223@crystalball.com> Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 00:00:41 -0600 From: "Mikell D. Nelson" Reply-To: mnelson@crystalball.com Organization: Boomerang Musical Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Feedback, Mercedes and Boogie for Beginners References: <23025.199703290920@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JOjVb.A.jGB.pE1Pz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2457 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 21:55:55 -0800 X-UIDL: 331cabbc36def032bca39c3c6d069200 Dr M. P. Hughes wrote: > Now, this is something which concerns me greatly - what governs feedback? > I had a Lab Series L9 until recently which, despite pushing 120 watts into > a 15" speaker, was nigh on impossble to feed back. However, the Boogie > Subway Blues will do it with the volume on 5, with reverb and mid all the > way up (my fave tone). Just thought I would relate a review on a tube guitar amp that was described as in glowing terms generally but was said to excel in the area of controlled feedback. This is from the Feb 97 Guitar Player review of 23 "boutique" tube amps. "Feedback is another of this amp's specialties. Even at moderate gain settings, you can just grab a note and dig the ride. ... One of the best feedback amps I've ever played." This had my mouth watering for a Electroplex Rocket 50; $2,045 as tested with Mojotone MP10R speakers and GE 6L6 power tubes. Electroplex Amplifiers, Box 35, Brea, CA 92822; fax 714-739-8178. Motley From ???@??? Mon Mar 31 00:21:52 1997 >From kflint Sun Mar 30 22:33:29 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wBaek-00044F-00; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 22:33:26 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: meifoo.hk.super.net: Umanager set sender to manager.com!jim using -f From: jim@manager.com (Jim Morgan) Reply-To: jim@manager.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Re: Looping in London 10-iv-97 Date: 31 Mar 1997 06:00:54 GMT Message-Id: <3406430206.217048659@manager.com> Organization: Manager International Co. Ltd. Resent-Message-ID: <"DmvSCC.A.alD.eo1Pz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2458 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 22:33:26 -0800 X-UIDL: 6b41ecb88a630589c20ab994a4b07506 >Another UK looper! Does that make, oh, about 3 of us? > >Michael There used to be an Australian girl called Violinda (uh .. I guess that was her stage name. Guess what instrument she played) playing around some of the less well known clubs in London about three years ago. She might be around still, and is well worth seeing. There was also a violin-based looper who used to busk in Oxford about the same time ago, but he probably gave up cos whenever he played, such a big crowd would gather, the police (bless 'em) had to "move him on" Ah those were the days, Hong Kong Jim From ???@??? Mon Mar 31 09:01:41 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 31 08:37:25 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wBk5C-0005gp-00; Mon, 31 Mar 1997 08:37:22 -0800 Message-Id: <199703311622.IAA26132@scv1.apple.com> Subject: Re: Feedback, Mercedes and Boogie for Beginners Date: Mon, 31 Mar 97 10:22:06 -0000 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"1PvKh.A.XCE.AU-Pz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2460 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 08:37:22 -0800 X-UIDL: d1bd3529dba6d0229ec4d2b4bd2b59f3 Kim Flint said: "The way the amp is designed and voiced have a lot to do with the resulting guitar feedback. Boogies sing like there's no tomorrow, (I've heard lots of good stuff about the subway blues) but most amps don't. Spring reverb vs digital reverb is not the path to feedback nirvana. My Boogie triaxis-simulclass 2:90 combo gets the feedback you are seeking at low volumes, with or without the digital intellifex reverb in the signal path." While we're on the subject of feedback at low levels, I just picked up a Boogie Subway Rocket this weekend, and I'm tremendously pleased with it. I've used a bunch of Boogie stuff over the years, but the Subway Rocket allows you to get all the dynamic wonder of tubes at a quieter volume. I can't speak too highly of this $500, 20watt, three mode wonder. It even has a parallel effects loop, which I'm going to try out tonight. If you're looking for a small combo, it's well worth your while to check it out. If you're just looking for a preamp for that singing Boogie tone, the V-twin pedal is really nice, and can be configured as a stompbox or as a pre-amp. Travis Hartnett (not-affiliated with Boogie) From ???@??? Mon Mar 31 09:01:36 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 31 07:47:51 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wBjJH-0001IA-00; Mon, 31 Mar 1997 07:47:51 -0800 Message-Id: <199703311538.KAA19626@nico.bway.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 10:42:55 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: dmgraph@bway.net (David Myers) Subject: Re: 'Plex noise gate Resent-Message-ID: <"l_oNaC.A.g3.jt9Pz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2459 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 07:47:51 -0800 X-UIDL: cd69a87d10240acd47d4819706564d1f Kim (Flint): Sorry for the culinary mix-up. >I didn't get your original post, sorry. In general though, the deal is this: > >I stopped working for Gibson about 10 months ago, and don't pretend to >speak for them or their divisions. (like Oberheim) The help I give on >echoplex questions is totally voluntary, and not out of any obligation. I'm >proud of the thing and the work I did on it, and I just want to see people >enjoy it and use it well. My real life is very demanding, and I actually >have very little time for these sorts of questions. And I do get a lot of >them. I'm more than happy to help, and I try my best to give people good >answers, but sometimes it takes me a while to get to it. So please try to >be patient. > >I don't mean to jump on you, and normally don't feel it's necessary to make >silly statements like this. It's just that I've received email recently >with a lot more "angry customer attitude" than seemed necessary. Sort of >like the author thought I was a Gibson representative or something. If >Gibson/oberheim/whoever has wronged you somehow, please direct your anger >at them and not me! They have customer service people available for you to >abuse. Mostly, those folks will be able to take care of your problems and >as far as I know are reasonably good at that. I will be more than happy to >help you if I can, but my motivation will be remarkably lower in the face >of overtly misdirected hostility...... > >Thanks for listening to me vent. Now, your question: > >>approach. In brief, the noise gate is ruining everything I've tried to do >>lately. Hit a big distortion chord and let it die out gradually-within a >>few seconds the gate starts chopping it up. Most of my sounds are being >>pumped like this, and I'm hoping there is a way to get around the gate. >>Please?! I don't care so much about improved "undo" performance-with this >>gate, I'll have to look elsewhere for my main looper. >> >>Thanks-David > >This was discussed to death a few months ago and I currently don't have the >time or energy to do it again, so for the full version you ought to check >the archives. A synopsis: > >- There is a noisegate on the echoplex that makes the Undo function > much more usable. > >- A few people find it annoying, and probably don't realize how equally > annoyed they would be if it wasn't there. > >- There is currently no way to adjust it or turn it off. > >- One imperfect work-around is to increase the input levels a bit to > make sure you are further above the gate threshold. > >- Another suggestion is to use a compressor. > >- The designers of the echoplex are very sorry if you are affected > by this problem. > >- Said designers (Matthias, Eric, and myself), at the expense of > personal lives and relationships, will be developing and releasing > echoplex software upgrades this year. The second of those will offer > an adjustable gate threshold. We do not yet have a release date for > that. Please avoid asking questions about upgrades for now, because > spending our very limited free time on your question means less > limited-free-time for working on the software! Appropriate > announcements will be made at the appropriate time. > >- We do hope you can be patient and wait for us to finish this work, > and hope that the wide variety of other echoplex features and > applications can bring you some solace and pleasure in the mean > time. > > >hope this helps, > >kim I apologize for getting your dander up, though I didn't *think* I was expressing hostility and have never believed you to have represented yourself as an Oberheim spokesperson or official troubleshooter. Just taking you up on your goodhearted openness and enthusiasm for the 'Plex--and cripes, if anyone can answer such questions, I figure you must be the guy! Maybe too many folks figure that and are running you ragged, sorry. I won't be dogging you about the planned upgrades, it's just a relief to hear that at some point this great unit will be of more practical use to me. At the risk of sounding like a dolt, exactly how does one check the archives, anyway? Thanks again for your help, Kim. -David From ???@??? Mon Mar 31 09:01:42 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 31 08:56:53 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wBkNz-0007dZ-00; Mon, 31 Mar 1997 08:56:47 -0800 Message-Id: <199703311646.LAA17412@acc.haverford.edu> Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 11:46:12 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: jspeer@haverford.edu Subject: Re: Looping Trombone Resent-Message-ID: <"0uMiQC.A.ZbG.Ds-Pz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2461 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 08:56:47 -0800 X-UIDL: 4a9b96ff6f60b8756df4e3e0833a213a I saw a band play at M.I.T. a few months back -- The trombone player was connected to a variety of processing devices, including one of those intelligent harmonizers, and pitch detector, and looping as well. Perhaps his technique is common practice for horn players, I don't know: This guy was miked inside the bell and then had a mute over the whole mic & bell, which effectively silenced his acoustic sound. From ???@??? Tue Apr 01 00:22:04 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 31 12:59:36 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wBoAb-0006Z5-00; Mon, 31 Mar 1997 12:59:13 -0800 Message-Id: <199703311758.MAA28236@acc.haverford.edu> Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 12:58:39 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: jspeer@haverford.edu Subject: Re: Chapman Stick/Jamman MIDI Resent-Message-ID: <"ajpftB.A.XdF.uPCQz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2463 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 12:59:13 -0800 X-UIDL: 40da5dc657c0b7f1e5eaf4b55322cdfe > What is the Chapman Stick? I see it mentioned around these parts all the > time, but I have no idea what it is. Is it just a regular guitar that's > favored by looper types for some reason, or does it do something > special? Emmett Chapman first developed a certain method of playing an electric instrument, which is most simply described as two hands approaching the fingerboard perpendicularly from either side. Each hand crosses over the neck to tap on the strings on the opposite side. He designed and built the Stick to best suit this technique. The pickups are super clean and high output, the action is very low, as is the string tension. One hand plays bass-range strings, strung in 5th, while the other plays the guitar range, in 4ths. The range of the whole instrument is roughly the same as a piano. I think the Stick is particularly well suited to looping for a number of reasons, which I'll capsulize: A very percussive attack is produced by the tapping, and the long strings and pickups produce and extra rich sustained sound. MIDI pickups work especially well on the instrument, should you choose to control loops via MIDI data. The last biggie is that the instrument can be operated with only one hand when necessary to make manual adjustments with the other. The Stick web site is: http://clever.net/stick/stickwire/ From ???@??? Tue Apr 01 00:18:31 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 31 10:53:36 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wBmCw-0002ju-00; Mon, 31 Mar 1997 10:53:30 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 10:42:03 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: 'Plex noise gate Resent-Message-ID: <"qAwF3.A.o5B.SZAQz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2462 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 10:53:30 -0800 X-UIDL: fea3f1033a500fa123b39d81782a0a23 At 10:42 AM 3/31/97, David Myers wrote: >I apologize for getting your dander up, though I didn't *think* I was >expressing hostility and have never believed you to have represented >yourself as an Oberheim spokesperson or official troubleshooter. Just >taking you up on your goodhearted openness and enthusiasm for the >'Plex--and cripes, if anyone can answer such questions, I figure you must >be the guy! Maybe too many folks figure that and are running you ragged, >sorry. Sorry to get on your case, David. You weren't the one that riled me up, but replying to your question was a convenient place to get the other stuff off my chest. Feel free to ask questions anytime, I'll do my best to answer you. Friends? :-) >At the risk of sounding like a dolt, exactly how does one check the >archives, anyway? > >From the top page of the web site: http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html there is a link to the mailing list archives. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Apr 01 00:22:33 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 31 16:07:28 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wBr6i-0002tr-00; Mon, 31 Mar 1997 16:07:24 -0800 Message-ID: <33400B6B.179C@nyfac.com> Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 19:07:30 +0000 From: nyfac2 Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com Organization: nyfac X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: where do you guys buy your 30 pin simms? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3LDTSB.A.-QC.OCFQz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2464 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 16:07:24 -0800 X-UIDL: 25cd7a0169ddea62ece76876151f7984 I have a JamMan, but my clunky old computer running Session8 takes 30 pin simms. I am being forced to upgrade to Win95 (S8 doesn't work on NT) and now my 16 pathetic megs of RAM won't cut it any more. I don't suppose anyone out there in TV land has a few 8 meg or 16 meg simms they want to get rid of, or know of a good place to find them... Thanks, Trev PS: I know that there are a lot of vendor questions out there... maybe a vender FAQ could be added to the page? I would volunteer for duty, but, dispite the fact that I opperate computers for a living, I do not know HTML/Java/whatever. PPS: Thanks Kim (No Soup) Flint for the Boogie list info- I joined tonight. As my little brother would say, 'You are the Bomb'. PPPS: If you are looking for good feedback (esp without a lot of distortion) try out a hollowbody. I am the proud new owner of an Epiphone 335-ish pig that gave me such increadably complex, mutating feedback with a minimum of gain, I was tempted to toss out my Ebow away. Unbelievable... From ???@??? Tue Apr 01 00:22:45 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 31 21:50:58 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wBwT3-0006pd-00; Mon, 31 Mar 1997 21:50:49 -0800 Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 17:49:36 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: rmenger@groupz.net Resent-Message-ID: <"_BvGlC.A.AAG.BFKQz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Unidentified subject! Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2467 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 21:50:49 -0800 X-UIDL: 484fe4cfbf8822506c12992bacb0329f I subcsribed to this list a few weeks ago and have really enjoyed reading it....I had thought that i subscribed to the "digest" though...Is it possible to get this in digest form? Rich If you have an unpleasant nature and dislike people this is no obstacle to work. --J.G. Bennett From ???@??? Tue Apr 01 00:22:46 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 31 21:51:14 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wBwTL-0006rO-00; Mon, 31 Mar 1997 21:51:07 -0800 Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 17:59:37 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: rmenger@groupz.net Resent-Message-ID: <"_3i5dC.A.c_F.6EKQz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Unidentified subject! Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2466 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 21:51:07 -0800 X-UIDL: c42767886e3dcd603c94c3cbb66a26b4 nevermind my last post guys...i figured it out....:) Rich If you have an unpleasant nature and dislike people this is no obstacle to work. --J.G. Bennett From ???@??? Tue Apr 01 00:22:36 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 31 16:43:41 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wBrfl-0006Ne-00; Mon, 31 Mar 1997 16:43:37 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 16:36:48 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Mercedes and visual looping Resent-Message-ID: <"WhkMsD.A.OdF.pjFQz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2465 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 16:43:37 -0800 X-UIDL: 7ccfb677c7886f2854008cdc09ed0d03 >At 1:20 AM 3/29/97, Dr M. P. Hughes wrote: >>Let's be fair; the JM is pretty solid peice of work. If we're going for >>car analogies, then the Obie is probably a Merc (E or S series) - high >>prestige, and filled with gadgets that the owners insist they could never >>live without - air cond, power steering. The Lex is an Audi, BMW 3-series >>or Volvo - a quality, refined dirving experience which will get you from A >>to B in style, if not necessarily pampered. Finally, the boomerang is an >>off-roader - fun to drive, not necessarily the smoothest ride, but with a >>growing cult status. Even if it can't do the things the others can, there >>are places it can go that leave the others behind. After that, leave Zoom, >>Dod etc to fight it out for Ford.. :) > Let's see, does this mean that playing a loop over and over again on your instrument is analogous to riding a bicycle? >ohhhhhhh...... will it never end? ;-) > As the person who, in a fit of foolish, late-night, caffiene-driven, sleep-deprived silliness, made the original loopers as German cars analogy, may I humbly apologize to the list? I'm sorry, I never dreamed it'd go this far... On to other stuff: I was recently given a copy of Steinberg's X<>Pose to review for a mac magazine. If you haven't heard of it, it's an animation program that assigns MIDI notes to pict files and quicktime movies, and has a bunch of effects and modifiers that are also controllable via MIDI notes and controllers. It can be controlled in real time from a keyboard or from a sequencer running in the background. While you could do similar stuff in Director or MAX, X<>Pose makes it quite easy to do animations that are synced to music. It could be great for doing live psychedelic light shows, with a computer and projector. So I'm wondering if anyone out there has ever given much thought to the idea of applying the looping esthetic to visuals. One thing that has struck me about the looping music, and technologically-driven music in general, is that it's just not very interesting to watch. As a performer, I don't believe in the idea of faking some kind of physical intensity to make the performance more theatrical, what Anthony Braxton calls "the tyranny of the sweating brow", but at the same time, I recognise that (a) it's difficult for people to make a connection between what the looping musician is doing on the stage to what they are hearing, and (b) watching someone twiddle knobs on a rack is just not visually exciting. So I'm thinking that there's a way to create a visual analog for what we do musically, using something like X<>Pose. Any thoughts? Anybody actually doing this kind of stuff? Part of the reason I'm wondering about all this is that my band is doing an hour-long cable TV show in about a month, and I'm looking for some practical ways to add some visuals... Also, about the West Coast Looping Live extravaganza, I'm still interested. I could help organise something in Eugene or Portland, and, given enough advance notice, could make it to the Bay Area to participate... later, Dave Trenkel ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Tue Apr 01 00:22:48 1997 >From kflint Mon Mar 31 22:04:04 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wBwfq-0000JO-00; Mon, 31 Mar 1997 22:04:02 -0800 Message-ID: <3340A60C.56CB@crystalball.com> Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 00:07:08 -0600 From: "Mikell D. Nelson" Reply-To: mnelson@crystalball.com Organization: Boomerang Musical Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Mercedes and visual looping References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"N1TTCC.A.JUH.HSKQz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2468 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 22:04:02 -0800 X-UIDL: dcf68f26a7fed5c76beaddec86e84c92 Dave Trenkel wrote: > ... So I'm thinking that there's > a way to create a visual analog for what we do musically, using something > like X<>Pose. Any thoughts? Anybody actually doing this kind of stuff? There are products out (sorry, can't recall names) that output MIDI messages in response to movement and proximity. For example you step around your keyboard and thust your arm into the air and simultaneously the stage lighting changes and a musical sequence is triggered. Or perhaps you walk to an area of the stage and jab your guitar in and out at an imaginary foe, but each jab is accompanied by a huge sonic blast. I saw one of these companies at the 1996 NAMM show, but their name is still not coming to me. I think the devices employ infra-red sensors, and are programmable as to transmitted MIDI data. Motley From ???@??? Tue Mar 18 09:43:22 1997 >From kflint Tue Mar 18 08:28:19 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w71kI-0004Rt-00; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 08:28:18 -0800 Message-ID: <31D7EC9D.7AB0@lafn.org> Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 08:19:57 -0700 From: Francis Leach Organization: lafn.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Living on a rock References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"izB63C.A.xyD.hFsLz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2296 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 08:28:18 -0800 X-UIDL: 85bbb5940c0b0ba9d2f57b81e6c0244a Dave Stagner wrote: > > On Tue, 2 Jul 1996, Francis Leach wrote: > > > > >Actually, that makes me wonder. I don't know much about Chinese music > > > >traditions. Does anyone know if there are any looping parallels there, in > > > >the way there are with other musics about the world? > > > writer...I've tried to find tradional (classical-Chinese such as ancient > > chinese opera, etc.) Chinese midi files on the Internet. Does anyone > > know a web site where this is possible? > > Neither Chinese classical nor Chinese folk music are "loopy" musics, > the way, say, Balinese music is. They're basically just-intonated > pentatonic scale melodies, played with instruments that slur pitch. > In this sense, they're more akin to the pentatonic folk music of > various Celtic traditions. A Scots border song like "Matty Groves" > has a similar structure. > > Instrumentally, both classical and folk Chinese music are > percussion-heavy, and the percussion instruments tend toward tuned > cymbals, which restate melodies along with the stringed instruments. > > The National Traditional Orchestra of China is currently touring the > US. If you get a chance to see them, don't miss it. It's quite an > experience, very different from a European orchestra. > > On the other hand, don't waste a lot of time looking to Chinese music > to inspire your loops. It may inspire melodic structures, or > different ways to attack notes, but it doesn't have much useful > repetitive content for looping. > > -dave > > By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. > Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. > Venus De Milo. > To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.net */ > -Charles Fort Thanks for your letter, Charles Fort! I'm not "wasting time", as you called it, to look for midi files from China that produce something exactly or approximately like the classical music of China. I'm a composer using midi looping software that I wrote myself, and also was the consultant on a privately written piece of software made solely to loop with midi (the writer of the source code has been a very fine programmer working in that capacity for the IBM Corporation). By using my midi looping software, I wrote an Asian sounding (pentatonic) piece last year which was performed in a college concert to approximately 150 people, with a dancer dancing to it on stage. It was well received, and I'm so grateful to find this news group as my greatest pleasure if programming midi music (which of course, must have constraints in it's random feature, such as the pentatonic scale, for instance is a constraint . . . without such constraints (pure randomness) the music becomes boring.) Such music needs a balance between random features and "pattern". It is looping which makes the pattern aspect, actual both the patterned and the random aspect, possible! Francis Leach From ???@??? Tue Mar 18 09:43:06 1997 >From kflint Tue Mar 18 07:00:37 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w70NP-0006nt-00; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 07:00:35 -0800 Message-ID: <31D92804.7D95@lafn.org> Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 06:45:40 -0700 From: Francis Leach Organization: lafn.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Living on a rock References: <970317004207_415109473@emout02.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"WfVTdC.A.9BG.nxqLz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2293 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 07:00:35 -0800 X-UIDL: e8926faf6668820f638997f69de4e83b BobbyZZZ@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 3/16/97 11:52:28 PM, you wrote: > > > > >Actually, that makes me wonder. I don't know much about Chinese music > >traditions. Does anyone know if there are any looping parallels there, in > >the way there are with other musics about the world? > > > >kim > > hmmmmm, that's a good one kim. from all the enthnomusicology i absorbed > during my time in school, i would say yes, in the sense that many types of > asian and "oriental" musics do have a lot of repetition...and can also be > very mono-chromatic and harmonically static in some ways...Bob Phelps, are > you up for answering this one??? :-)_ > bobby devito/lvx novaI'm new to this newsgroup but am a looping composer and software writer...I've tried to find tradional (classical-Chinese such as ancient chinese opera, etc.) Chinese midi files on the Internet. Does anyone know a web site where this is possible?