From ???@??? Sat Feb 01 14:57:21 1997 >From kflint Sat Feb 1 01:15:46 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vqbY2-0007aZ-00; Sat, 1 Feb 1997 01:15:46 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 01:11:42 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: new profiles up.... Resent-Message-ID: <"AwKa4C.A.DEH.6lw8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1951 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 01:15:46 -0800 X-UIDL: d3df71af6cc906375d1ad2996fee3bbb Since the last time I uploaded a new version of the Profiles page on the Looper's Delight site, Michael has sent me not one, not two, but *THREE* new versions. They've been collecting dust in my Looper's to-do folder, while I was off galavanting about the namm show and spending any other spare moments trying to brighten the future of certain loop tools. Oh, and there's that day job... I just uploaded Version 12, so if you've been eagerly awaiting your public presence in the loopdirectory, you may now breath easy, you are available for the world to inspect. For all of you not represented on the profile page, What the heck are you waiting for? You couldn't possibly be busier than me, and even I manage to get this stuff done once in a while. Do this right now: Check the profile page to see what personal specs people have on there, at: http://www.annihilist.com/loop/profiles/Profiles.html Type up similar specs about yourself. Send it to the ever-efficient Michael Peters for inclusion in the Looper's Delight profile page, at Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM>. Michael will add you to the page, send it to me, and in a matter of just 3-4 months, I will get my act together and upload it to the site. (well it doesn't usually take that long...:-p) Now I'm going to think about updating the archive section...... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sat Feb 01 14:57:23 1997 >From kflint Sat Feb 1 04:25:30 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vqeVd-0004ju-00; Sat, 1 Feb 1997 04:25:29 -0800 Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 07:22:49 -0500 (EST) Date-warning: Date header was inserted by UCBEH.SAN.UC.EDU From: dellaia@UCBEH.SAN.UC.EDU (Steve/Angel Ball) Subject: Re: Jman upgrades X-Sender: dellaia@ucbeh.san.uc.edu To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.COM Message-id: <01IEW6AJSE0EIVGZYQ@UCBEH.SAN.UC.EDU> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Resent-Message-ID: <"SSeunD.A.TZE.9Xz8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1952 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 04:25:30 -0800 X-UIDL: 8c4d1b80693c326ab31191e0e2858a2c >PMimlitsch@aol.com wrote: >> >> In a message dated 1/27/97 9:36:39 PM, Trevor (concerning the Jamman) wrote: >> >> <> >> >> They're readily aveilable through any local electronics store or wharehouse >> .DON"T go through a music store --mail order or otherwise--you'll get >> ripped.--Paul > > >Thanks, man. Do you have any favorites? Anyone? > >I would say that maybe we should put some of this info on the page, but >considering that I doubt there will many non-upgraded JamPeople in this >group. I have seen these questions before, but I never seem to catch >the answers. > > >Trev > I've ordered additional SIMMS for upgrading the EchoPlex DP memory. A friendly bloke at Bananas at Large directed me to an outfit called The Chip Merchant, located, I believe, in CA for the purchase. The phone number is 800-426-6375. I believe they also have a web site at www.thechipmerchant.com (although I haven't visited the site). Hope this helps. From ???@??? Sat Feb 01 14:57:25 1997 >From kflint Sat Feb 1 04:43:22 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vqemv-00055I-00; Sat, 1 Feb 1997 04:43:21 -0800 Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 07:41:43 -0500 (EST) From: PMimlitsch@aol.com Message-ID: <970201074142_41016386@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: music just for musicians? Resent-Message-ID: <"2FcWVD.A.ztE.xoz8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1953 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 04:43:21 -0800 X-UIDL: c78cd09447522fb3a1fe8c4507eb8fa8 In a message dated 1/30/97 2:26:55 PM, Mickey wrote: <> Isn't it when, even for small slots of time, we are able to detach ourselves that the best stuff happens? As far as responsibility goes -- to whom? 8-) From ???@??? Sat Feb 01 14:57:26 1997 >From kflint Sat Feb 1 04:51:39 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vqeux-0005IB-00; Sat, 1 Feb 1997 04:51:39 -0800 Message-Id: <16456.199702011250@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 12:50:51 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Re: music just for musicians? Resent-Message-ID: <"CbLqp.A.74E.Xwz8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1954 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 04:51:39 -0800 X-UIDL: e4e51214aad624aba8c602fd6e34eef6 Greg: >>We have sold around 8000 JAMMEN as opposed to maybe 5000 each of the M300 >>and M480L. I am utterly amazed. Utterly. neato says: >there is however a big difference...reverb processing machines are a known >entity...the jamman was basically a new concept all together...it takes >time to promote an entirely new idea... But it wasn't. It could have been pushed as the replacement EH16sec delay. Robert Fripp should have been photographed with it as soon as it came out, rather than waiting years till Obie produced a similar product. The one thing that seems to win lower market share is major artist support, something that wasn't even attempted until very late in the campaign (and then, with the exception of DT, hardly major artists. Yes, mark Isham is huge, but does Joe Average Guitarist care? The names were, I suspect, too highbrow - again, with the exception of the widely-known DT). Where were Chet Atkins or Warren Cuccurelo, both of whom went as far as to name album tracks after the machine??? >perhaps lexicon is just not the company to break >them (as their strength was never really catering to a low end market) I think Lexicon produced marvellous tools that the great unwashed don't understand. Give Joe Average Guitarist an M300 and a Quadraverb and ask him if one is _worth_ 10xc the other - but this is fine since he;s not the target market. But show him a Vortex and a Midiverb and he'll take the latter - it has MIDI and many more preset locations (and costs slightly less). The JM and Vortex were tools for the "serious" user, part of larger systems but given "beginner" prices. So they assumed they _were_ beginner boxes, and continued to lust after 2290s etc. Now with the MPX Lex should be onto a real winner - it _looks_ serious and is percieved as an effects powerhouse. It might be Son of Vortex and Reflex With Other Bits, but it looks like something people expect from Lexicon. The "baby" range will be looked back on like the Gibson MIII; great guitars, but not what conservative guitarists expect a Gibson to look like. (rant mode off again) Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb From ???@??? Sat Feb 01 14:57:29 1997 >From kflint Sat Feb 1 07:46:44 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vqheN-0001M9-00; Sat, 1 Feb 1997 07:46:43 -0800 Date: 01 Feb 97 10:43:18 EST From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: music just for musicians? Message-ID: <970201154318_74074.1316_GHQ40-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"kGQQpC.A.aMB.VU28y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1955 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 07:46:43 -0800 X-UIDL: 624e9e67d5db11d2fb3fa6ad1b73a72f Michael has some interesting perspectives on Lex's ad campaign for the JamMan, and I think I can answer some of his ranting: >Sure. However, I think (I really honestly hope I'm not stepping of your >toes, or Greg's, on this one) that Lex gave the impression of really not >knowing how to approach the low end of the market. The "32 secundos" ad >with zany graphics seemed so full of hype that it looked as if there was >something to hide. Interestingly enough, that ad campaign was by far the most sucessful campaign the company ever ran in terms of response. We received more phone calls and reader response cards for them than any other two lex ads combined. What's more, one of the magazines opened up their reader response numbers to me (this debate raged around lexland for some time) and the Lex ads were getting 50% more responses than any other processors during the same time period. Now this didn't translate into sales, obviously, but it does tell me that they did get people interested. Which is one of the key elements in any ad campaign for any product. >But it wasn't. It could have been pushed as the replacement EH16sec delay. > Robert Fripp should have been photographed with it as soon as it came out, >rather than waiting years till Obie produced a similar product. The one >thing that seems to win lower market share is major artist support, >something that wasn't even attempted until very late in the campaign (and >then, with the exception of DT, hardly major artists. Yes, mark Isham is >huge, but does Joe Average Guitarist care? The names were, I suspect, too >highbrow - again, with the exception of the widely-known DT). Where were >Chet Atkins or Warren Cuccurelo, both of whom went as far as to name album >tracks after the machine??? Actually, Warren *was* in the ad. As for the others, Michael Manring isn't big? He only won "bassist of the year" in Bass plyer magaine that year, and graced the cover of the mag twice in the same calendar year. Isham represents composers and horn players, and Leni Stern is one of only a handful of female guitarists to receive any recognition--and if you look at the Guitar Player 30th anniversary issue, there she is among the "30 players who mattered" offering a looping lesson. Remember, this box is for a wider audience than just guitar players. And also remember--all of these people really *do* use the device. Was the ad too little, too late? Yes, of course, but to me it's amazing that it happened at all! >The JM and Vortex were tools for the "serious" user, part of larger >systems but given "beginner" prices. So they assumed they _were_ beginner >boxes, and continued to lust after 2290s etc. So, if Lex put a $1500 price tag on 'em they'd have sold? Please! They didn't sell at all untill the price dropped to $199. From ???@??? Sat Feb 01 14:57:30 1997 >From kflint Sat Feb 1 08:42:35 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vqiWQ-0003Ac-00; Sat, 1 Feb 1997 08:42:34 -0800 Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 11:40:56 -0500 From: neato@pipeline.com X-Sender: neato@pop.pipeline.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: music just for musicians? Resent-Message-ID: <"UmUxED.A.Y4C.eI38y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1956 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 08:42:34 -0800 X-UIDL: 464b3446638431b9b2ff40db2a553d41 >neato says: >>there is however a big difference...reverb processing machines are a known >>entity...the jamman was basically a new concept all together...it takes >>time to promote an entirely new idea... >Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes wrote: >But it wasn't. It could have been pushed as the replacement EH16sec delay. > Robert Fripp should have been photographed with it as soon as it came out, >rather than waiting years till Obie produced a similar product. neato says: i wouldnt exactly call the jamman a replacement of the eh16...wasn't there a gap of about 15 years between the two!...and besides the eh 16 came relatively late in the electro harmonix story...mike matthews folded it up not much later...it didnt make much of a dent....it was also a pedal ( and geared like all eh products towards guitarists only) as opposed to a rackmount which has studio implications -my point still being that although the figures show a limited sales figure for a lower priced item(jamman) as compared to the cream of the lexicon line at much higher prices, it can almost be expected due to the publics basic unfamiliarity with loops and loopers in general...the two simply cannot be compared -another solution would be a multi-fx box that offers looping as one of it's features...but not as an abbreviated afterthought, but rather as a well thought out totally intergrated feature that expands on past editions -finally as regards this $199 blow out price...that has people saying nobody wanted one until the price was cut to this level...there is another factor besides just sale price (and whats wrong with that anyway? the unit is no longer cutting edge and should have been updated long ago) that comes into play...and that is availibility...this is literally the last chance for a looper for many intereted folk who can't afford the higher priced echoplex...the rush is not only about price but availibility! cheers all my mistakes were once acts of genius neato@pipeline com From ???@??? Fri Jan 31 22:53:21 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 31 13:41:44 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vqQiN-0000hg-00; Fri, 31 Jan 1997 13:41:43 -0800 Sender: soft@nyfac.com Message-ID: <32F3B9D4.41C6@nyfac.com> Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 16:47:00 -0500 From: nyfac X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; IRIX 5.3 IP22) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Starting again References: <199701311836.KAA16348@scv1.apple.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"EBUcqD.A.YS.ZWm8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1944 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 13:41:43 -0800 X-UIDL: ca2f51af3fc50165bfdabf76ecc9601a T.W. Hartnett wrote: > > >Well, I have a day job. My livelihood does not depend on making music. > >There is no other driving force for me to make music other than > >the passion for doing so. Actually, I think having a day job afforts the ultimate in artistic freedom, if you care about these thing. I don't need other people to like my work- all I have to do is like it. No record contract worries, don't have the get multiple piercings, whatever. Plus it helps that my day job is pretty cool too. Trev From ???@??? Sat Feb 01 14:57:37 1997 >From kflint Sat Feb 1 14:41:53 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vqo88-0002aH-00; Sat, 1 Feb 1997 14:41:52 -0800 Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 17:39:56 -0500 (EST) From: Tara Key Sender: tk10@columbia.edu To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: populate a species. In-Reply-To: <32F3CF5D.167E@nyfac.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"8nFWUB.A.SVC.CZ88y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1957 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 14:41:52 -0800 X-UIDL: 336143436d1dfa8e763f8edaa31b21a9 correction...there is a (at least) woman on the list...lurking in the oberheim echoplex/vortex looping wild....hi boys! Tara Key Antietam From ???@??? Fri Jan 31 22:53:30 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 31 15:06:25 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vqS2K-0006e4-00; Fri, 31 Jan 1997 15:06:24 -0800 Sender: soft@nyfac.com Message-ID: <32F3CDAF.41C6@nyfac.com> Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 18:11:43 -0500 From: nyfac X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; IRIX 5.3 IP22) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: music just for musicians? References: <26756.199701311207@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"UIc6P.A.81F.yln8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1946 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 15:06:24 -0800 X-UIDL: 93b295744c2239b461f265da5c655c1a Every civilization since the dawn of time has written that it was teetering on the edge of chaos> I have heard quite a few people here slagging Nirvana and various other grunge type bands as being bland and tasteless when compared to, say, Jimi Hendrix. I don't think that I have to argue with anybody here about the general lameness of commercial radio, so I won't bother. But what kind of gets my goat, if you will, is someone here who complained about his son's taste, and made the aforementioned comparison of Nirvana and Hendrix, saying specifically that the former could not match the elequence of the latter. First off, while Hendrix is, was, and always will be, one of the greatest guitar players ever. Period, end of story. But personally, I think that Cobain was an excellent guitar player. I don't care that he could know the inversions I know, that he didn't know a whole-tone/half-tone scale from his harmonic minor (hey, even I get confused sometimes), I still think, in all honesty, that he was a better player than I am. His chord progressions were great, his infrequent solos (when they worked) were hair raising. He just plain rocked. And that is what it is all about, isn't it? Secondly, while Hendrix rocked without mercy (a given) he was a bit, well, shall we say, lacking lyric-wise. I guess you can't have everything. So I would say this: relax, enjoy the music. There is a tone of great stuff out there and there is more everyday. If you don't think music is growing anymore, check out grungish bands like Slint, the inimitable Jawbox, Helmet, or any of the other bands that are constantly ripped off by the halfwits they play on the radio. Music is alive and well, I am pleased to say. PS: if your children were enamored of old Neil Young (who is also, if you must know, the man) I don't know if you would be quite so despondent. Any who would Cobain be if not the combination of Young and Dylan? From ???@??? Fri Jan 31 22:53:31 1997 >From kflint Fri Jan 31 15:11:52 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vqS7a-00073t-00; Fri, 31 Jan 1997 15:11:50 -0800 Sender: soft@nyfac.com Message-ID: <32F3CF5D.167E@nyfac.com> Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 18:18:53 -0500 From: nyfac X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; IRIX 5.3 IP22) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: populate a species. References: <27197.199701311225@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Gz6Q-.A.7SG.fsn8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1947 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 15:11:50 -0800 X-UIDL: 2c133cafeb815598aa855476ff2dcdbc > There may only be 100 of us on this list, but in the wild that's a big > enough population to repopulate a species. Too bad there don't seem to be any women on the list. We could have a personals section of the web page... SWML (single white male loopist) seeks SFL with whom to have a MIDI interface. Must have at least 16 megs of RAM and a Vortex. Let get our pedals out and express ourselves! Maybe it wouldn't be such a good idea... Trev From ???@??? Sat Feb 01 18:29:29 1997 >From kflint Sat Feb 1 16:57:05 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vqqEy-0000P5-00; Sat, 1 Feb 1997 16:57:04 -0800 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199702020054.QAA00169@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: Starting again To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 16:54:49 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <32F3B9D4.41C6@nyfac.com> from "nyfac" at Feb 1, 97 04:47:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9Hpa6.A.JQ.dX-8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1958 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 16:57:04 -0800 X-UIDL: 0f421a8d1df401e55fba3f4ca297005f > > T.W. Hartnett wrote: > > > > >Well, I have a day job. My livelihood does not depend on making music. > > >There is no other driving force for me to make music other than > > >the passion for doing so. Wrong, Trev. _I_ wrote the above paragraph. > > Actually, I think having a day job afforts the ultimate in artistic > freedom, if you care about these thing. I don't need other people to > like my work- all I have to do is like it. No record contract worries, > don't have the get multiple piercings, whatever. ^_^ TW actually thinks of his relationship with music as being a marriage; has its ups and downs. My personal relationship with music is not that way at all. Does that make me less "legitimate" a musician? Guys like TW might argue that we who must put in 40 hours a week doing something other than music are sacrificing time that could have been spent just making music. On the other hand, consider, like Trev says about, that we don't have to play the music business game. Unless you are already very rich and need not worry about income, you have to play the music business game if you don't have a fulltime job doing something other than music. Let's not forget there is no right or wrong here. Paolo Valladolid --------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ---------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Sat Feb 01 18:32:14 1997 >From kflint Sat Feb 1 18:33:42 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vqrkS-0004Fg-00; Sat, 1 Feb 1997 18:33:40 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 18:29:19 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: music just for musicians? Resent-Message-ID: <"rljRc.A.-5D.ty_8y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1959 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 18:33:40 -0800 X-UIDL: f507ed30032e5ac319ce1b10d52daa02 At 8:50 PM 1/31/97, neato@pipeline.com wrote: >ghogan@lexicon.com wrote: > >>We have sold around 8000 JAMMEN as opposed to maybe 5000 each of the M300 >>and M480L. Low end products require a lower margin(earned dollars) then >>higher end products thus a higher volume is required for a product to be >>deemed successful. > >neato says: >there is however a big difference...reverb processing machines are a known >entity...the jamman was basically a new concept all together...it takes >time to promote an entirely new idea...the problem is the original jamman >is/was already obsolete...perhaps lexicon is just not the company to break >them (as their strength was never really catering to a low end market)...a >bigger better (ie more expensive) jamman perhaps...but a low(er) cost >looper might have to fall into the hands of alesis,peavey or digitech..or >maybe even as a piece of computer software I think neato has made some good observations here. Looping needed time to catch on, and Lexicon didn't have the patience to wait for it. It is a new concept for most people, and they needed to hear others using it before they "got" it. That is only just beginning to happen. Now you see Guitar Player mentioning looping in nearly every issue, and loop based music of various sorts is beginning to dominate most forms of popular music. I think that has everything to do with demand going up for such devices. In fact, this always happens with new musical instrument products, and maybe Lexicon was a bit naive or too inexperienced with the MI market to realize that. It's NOT the same as pro-audio, that's for sure. But I have another observation. How is it that Lexicon could consider 8000 units sold over a three year period a failure? That's not a small number for a music industry product. Is the problem maybe one of internal organization and manufacturing practices? Several times I've heard Jon refer to "warehouses full of Jammen/vortex" which were soaking up lots of cash in inventory. Sounds like poor sales forcasting, for one thing. But more importantly, why did you make them all at once? Just about the whole manufacturing world uses just-in-time manufacturing processes. It worked for Toyota and the rest of Japan, it worked for GM, it works for the whole computer industry, it even works for lowly little Oberheim. Did you guys miss that seminar series or what? Oberheim has been selling the low cost Matrix-1000 synthesizer for something like 10 years. They sell 50-100 a month. Sometimes less, sometimes more. The manufacturing is contracted out to a manufacturing house with a great deal of expertise in jit manufacturing. The parts come through distributors set up for delivering to jit processes. This all allows for volume pricing distributed over time. Oberheim has matrix-1000's made according to how many orders there are at a given time. They pay for that many and make a profit on each one. The overhead for Oberheim is very low. They can probably continue making this synth for years with little change in the profit picture. No warehouses. No big cash outlays. How come Lexicon doesn't do that? Remember, electric guitars didn't see these kinds of numbers in their early years of production, as I've mentioned before. Neither did synthesizers or any other new type of instrument I can think of. I don't think 8000 Les Pauls were sold in the first 3 years of production. I don't know the numbers for Fender and Rickenbacher, but I doubt they were seeing real big numbers with their early electric guitars either. I don't think any of those companies are sorry they kept at it. I'm sure not, otherwise I'd be playing clarinet. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Feb 02 02:16:11 1997 >From kflint Sun Feb 2 00:56:53 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vqxjI-0001rY-00; Sun, 2 Feb 1997 00:56:52 -0800 Message-ID: <32F44A17.1240@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 01:02:31 -0700 From: Shelley Reply-To: spoticha@earthlink.net Organization: STPP X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Macintosh; U; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: populate a species. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rGt9PD.A.boB.rXF9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1960 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 00:56:52 -0800 X-UIDL: 85f80c1cb55ae324b28e9d513b839a7f Hi Tara - When are you guys leaving Hoboken for the wilds of san francisco - sigh - I want to hear your catar-walls of sound!@ From ???@??? Sun Feb 02 15:07:54 1997 >From kflint Sun Feb 2 02:59:39 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vqze6-0005nt-00; Sun, 2 Feb 1997 02:59:38 -0800 Message-Id: <28578.199702021058@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 10:58:54 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Re: music just for musicians? Resent-Message-ID: <"MCTT7B.A.dYF.ZNH9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1961 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 02:59:38 -0800 X-UIDL: d21acf41133bd288bbc781a6a478fc77 >Michael has some interesting perspectives on Lex's ad campaign for the JamMan, That's the politest way I've heard for saying "he talks a load of tripe" :) >Interestingly enough, that ad campaign was by far the most sucessful campaign >the company ever ran in terms of response. We received more phone calls and >reader response cards for them than any other two lex ads combined. What's >>more, >one of the magazines opened up their reader response numbers to me (this debate >raged around lexland for some time) and the Lex ads were getting 50% more >responses than any other processors during the same time period. Now this >didn't >translate into sales, obviously, but it does tell me that they did get people >interested. Which is one of the key elements in any ad campaign for any >>product. Then why did no-one buy it? Was it under-specced, or what? >>Where were >>Chet Atkins or Warren Cuccurelo, both of whom went as far as to name album >>tracks after the machine??? > >Actually, Warren *was* in the ad. "These thing make music!" - yes, I remember now. Sorry. >As for the others, Michael Manring isn't big? >He only won "bassist of the year" in Bass plyer magaine that year, and graced >the cover of the mag twice in the same calendar year. Isham represents >>composers >and horn players, and Leni Stern is one of only a handful of female guitarists >to receive any recognition--and if you look at the Guitar Player 30th >anniversary issue, there she is among the >"30 players who mattered" offering a looping lesson. Yes, but bearing in mind that the average joe does tend to act like a sheep rather than learn by example, you need to get people who are in said musician's CD collections, and Leni Stern quite honestly isn't. I'm probably at a disadvantage here because I'm in the UK and probably aren't exposed to people like Manring, of whom I'd never heard before the ad. But in terms of artist association Peavey's new J. ad for the Tubefex will probably do far more for sales. Hell, that ad could've been for the Vortex. > Remember, this box is for a wider audience than just guitar players. But guitar players really don't care. Well, most don't. >And also remember--all of these people really *do* use the device. Was the ad >>too little, too late? Yes, of course, but to me it's amazing that it happened >>at all! >>The JM and Vortex were tools for the "serious" user, part of larger >>systems but given "beginner" prices. So they assumed they _were_ beginner >>boxes, and continued to lust after 2290s etc. >So, if Lex put a $1500 price tag on 'em they'd have sold? Please! They didn't >sell at all untill the price dropped to $199. No word yet on the discontinuation on the $1000 plex.... ;) Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb From ???@??? Sun Feb 02 17:20:16 1997 >From kflint Sun Feb 2 15:48:39 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrBeI-00072U-00; Sun, 2 Feb 1997 15:48:38 -0800 From: sarajane@tmbsbbs.com (Sarajane) Subject: repopulate the species Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 17:34:44 GMT Message-Id: <97020216300275@tmbsbbs.com> Organization: The Malibu Bikini Shop BBS - 303.772.8549 - 28.8 To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Resent-Message-ID: <"WB6Ef.A.sdG.zcS9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1963 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 15:48:38 -0800 X-UIDL: 924d23946cc9e68f3cb9862154d34fa6 Dear Loopers I'm Bryan's loopy wife, Sarajane, delurking to say that you have an almost perfect inversion of the stats you need for that repopulation thing to work....3-4 females, (maybe) to more than a hundred males.....just like a King Crimson crowd at the concerts...or the guitarcraft demographics....and if we few females breed, we lose our "repetitive cyclic" aspects...do we then disqualify as "loopers"? What about when we put the guitars down to tend the newest loop generation? Hmmmm.perhaps we'd best stick with the population at hand. Sarajane From ???@??? Sun Feb 02 15:07:57 1997 >From kflint Sun Feb 2 10:12:35 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vr6P0-0000M3-00; Sun, 2 Feb 1997 10:12:30 -0800 Date: 02 Feb 97 13:07:14 EST From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: music just for musicians? Message-ID: <970202180714_74074.1316_GHQ62-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"PDCFIC.A.QL.bhN9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1962 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 10:12:30 -0800 X-UIDL: 852d3791c88d04222dcb1e13655d8ed1 Michael writes: >That's the politest way I've heard for saying "he talks a load of tripe" :) I'm nothing, if not polite! Seriously, this is by no means the first time your arguments have been raised. I just think it's well worth pointing out some of the things that you don't know so that you can be more informed about the full scope of this debate. >Yes, but bearing in mind that the average joe does tend to act like a sheep >rather than learn by example, you need to get people who are in said >musician's CD collections, and Leni Stern quite honestly isn't. I'm >probably at a disadvantage here because I'm in the UK and probably aren't >exposed to people like Manring, of whom I'd never heard before the ad. But >in terms of artist association Peavey's new J. ad for the Tubefex will >probably do far more for sales. Hell, that ad could've been for the >Vortex. Sorry you're not familiar with Manring. He's a real monster, and a heck of a nice guy as well. As for Ms. Stern, besides the "female" aspect of including her in the ad, there's this tiny market here in the states called New York, wherin Leni is indeed something of a musician's musician.On any given Sunday night you can run into a host of NY who's whos haning around the 55 dive. While the general public isn't so familiar with her, it's astounding how many of the players are hip to what she's doing. Just as an example, the entire current line-up of the Brecker Brothers band is comprised of her former band mates. And they're all using the JamMan. Ask Michael Brecker how many people in NY are following her, and he'll tell you that everyone who's playuing owes something to her. There are a bunch of high profile session players who are always asking her what to buy. I know, 'cause they all called me. I know, it's just New York, but if you gotta start somewhere... >> Remember, this box is for a wider audience than just guitar players. >But guitar players really don't care. Well, most don't. I dunno. If this list is any indicator, it seems like the creative types who are likely to use such a product really do care about other artists besides guitarists. Besides, the ad wasn't only placed in Guitar Player. Guitarists are the largest potential market, but not the only one. >Then why did no-one buy it? Was it under-specced, or what? This is, of course, the crux of the biscuit. The answer is (IMO) that the market for such a product isn't that big to begin with. It will grow over time, but for right now I just don't see big moneys to be made in a looping-only device. In a well-thought-out multi effector? Yeah, absolutely. Kim further chimed in with >Sounds like poor sales forcasting, for one thing. But >more importantly, why did you make them all at once? Just about the whole >manufacturing world uses just-in-time manufacturing processes. It worked >for Toyota and the rest of Japan, it worked for GM, it works for the whole >computer industry, it even works for lowly little Oberheim. Did you guys >miss that seminar series or what? You don't ever want to sit in meetings with the brass at Lexland, Kim! It's a scary sight. From ???@??? Sun Feb 02 22:13:25 1997 >From kflint Sun Feb 2 17:24:52 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrD9P-0003Uo-00; Sun, 2 Feb 1997 17:24:51 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 17:20:02 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: music just for musicians? Resent-Message-ID: <"a-S-5.A.8JD.v3T9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1964 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 17:24:51 -0800 X-UIDL: 6499af637fbf3ccd71f13fbec0025812 >>and horn players, and Leni Stern is one of only a handful of female guitarists >>to receive any recognition--and if you look at the Guitar Player 30th >>anniversary issue, there she is among the >>"30 players who mattered" offering a looping lesson. > >Yes, but bearing in mind that the average joe does tend to act like a sheep >rather than learn by example, you need to get people who are in said >musician's CD collections, and Leni Stern quite honestly isn't. I'm >probably at a disadvantage here because I'm in the UK and probably aren't >exposed to people like Manring, of whom I'd never heard before the ad. But >in terms of artist association Peavey's new J. ad for the Tubefex will >probably do far more for sales. Hell, that ad could've been for the >Vortex. Yes, if you are trying to sell huge numbers, you aren't going to get it with "musician's musician" type endorsers. You can have David Torn, Robert Fripp, Leni Stern, Michael Manring and a host of other brilliant artists and it won't equal one Smashing Pumpkins. Joe Perry and Slash have never made any remarkably creative or innovative artistic statements, but they sure sold a hell of a lot of Les Pauls..... >No word yet on the discontinuation on the $1000 plex.... ;) How's this: The Oberheim Echoplex is not discontinued. Production has been restarted after a few months of limbo, so they should be readily available soon. There was even something about software that I didn't quite catch..... (and it's more like $800 list, not $1000....) kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Feb 02 22:13:27 1997 >From kflint Sun Feb 2 18:06:11 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrDnN-0005Zq-00; Sun, 2 Feb 1997 18:06:09 -0800 Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 21:02:18 -0500 (EST) From: PMimlitsch@aol.com Message-ID: <970202210216_-1643912031@emout18.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: music just for musicians? Resent-Message-ID: <"nxxjfC.A.pFF.BeU9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1965 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 18:06:09 -0800 X-UIDL: 880711afe9805fbaab5c3884e67302b4 In a message dated 2/2/97 8:24:51 PM, Kim wrote: <> Woa! How do you know what they do in their off time when their not playing the corporate/commercial anything for a buck game? --Paul From ???@??? Sun Feb 02 22:13:32 1997 >From kflint Sun Feb 2 22:04:36 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrHW7-0001Ho-00; Sun, 2 Feb 1997 22:04:35 -0800 Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 21:47:49 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: music just for musicians? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"V_KvC.A.bGB.K-X9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1967 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 22:04:35 -0800 X-UIDL: 9dc3902e679a28b95dc5106f66095084 On Sun, 2 Feb 1997, Kim Flint wrote: > You can have David Torn, Robert > Fripp, Leni Stern, Michael Manring and a host of other brilliant artists > and it won't equal one Smashing Pumpkins. This is one for the FAQ: Billy Corgan as one who has successfully gone BEYOND FRIPP. Maybe Fripp, Torn, Manring, and Stern can start a list to talk about how to go BEYOND THE SMASHING PUMPKINS. 8-/ > (and it's more like $800 list, not $1000....) $799, to be exact. And that's cheaper than where it was a year ago. --Andre From ???@??? Sun Feb 02 22:17:18 1997 >From kflint Sun Feb 2 22:18:18 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrHjM-0001xV-00; Sun, 2 Feb 1997 22:18:16 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 22:13:38 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: repopulate the species Resent-Message-ID: <"nXO2TC.A.iuB._KY9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1968 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 22:18:16 -0800 X-UIDL: 758af4295ae1d793ffb98b13069520d4 At 9:34 AM 2/2/97, Sarajane wrote: >Dear Loopers > I'm Bryan's loopy wife, Sarajane, delurking to >say that you have an almost perfect inversion of the stats you need >for that repopulation thing to work....3-4 females, (maybe) to more >than a hundred males.....just like a King Crimson crowd at the >concerts...or the guitarcraft demographics....and if we few females Having been born and raised well after feminism made its cultural mark, I must say I've always been totally baffled by the social prejudice that wiggling one's fingers on a guitar neck is a masculine activity. It would be nice to get looping off to a more egalitarian start. Maybe there's hope - I thought it was cool when my neighbors had a rave and all five dj's were women..... In the case of a Crimson show, perhaps the quantity of receding hairlines and extended waistlines has something to do with the low female turnout? (Sorry, couldn't resist....) >breed, we lose our "repetitive cyclic" aspects...do we then disqualify >as "loopers"? What about when we put the guitars down to tend the newest >loop generation? Hmmmm.perhaps we'd best stick with the population at >hand. > Sarajane Maybe you should keep holding the guitar and tell Bryan to tend the new generation? Better yet, let someone else do the baby-making, and we'll just park our vans near the local elementary school, dangling jammans from the window saying "C'mere kiddies, want to try a weird hobby?" kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Feb 02 23:00:08 1997 >From kflint Sun Feb 2 22:25:26 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrHqH-0002LG-00; Sun, 2 Feb 1997 22:25:25 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 22:20:41 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: archives updated Resent-Message-ID: <"IOmt_C.A.IFC.lRY9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1969 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 22:25:25 -0800 X-UIDL: 782618df970ef0191a4a93c04942122b I updated the archives on the web site this weekend, so all the loop babble from the past month is now available for your endless perusal..... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Feb 02 23:00:09 1997 >From kflint Sun Feb 2 22:41:43 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrI62-00034h-00; Sun, 2 Feb 1997 22:41:42 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 22:37:27 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Sticking with looping Resent-Message-ID: <"o3QztB.A.DyC.UhY9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1970 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 22:41:42 -0800 X-UIDL: fc05fdd5bfefd50e1158770f1e7f31c3 >G'day all of you Chapman Stick loopers out there, >If anyone's got looped Stick audio on the web anywhere, I'd love a pointer >to it just to hear what sort of things you're doing. In fact, any looped >stuff at all (any instrument) that I could download would certainly be >interesting. Teed Rockwell has one of his pieces on his website, using Stick and Echoplex: http://www.traktor.com/presents/teed/music.htm kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Feb 02 22:13:31 1997 >From kflint Sun Feb 2 21:58:49 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrHQW-0000wQ-00; Sun, 2 Feb 1997 21:58:48 -0800 From: David_Mitchell@HP-Australia-notes1.om.hp.com X-Openmail-Hops: 2 Date: Mon, 3 Feb 97 17:54:58 +1000 In-Reply-To: <"NOTES_CORRELATION_ITEM*"@MHS> Message-Id: <"81846:1*"@MHS> Subject: Sticking with looping Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="Lotus" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Ta4KdC.A.Iw.R4X9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1966 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 21:58:48 -0800 X-UIDL: 771d0c529980969febd040d99dc597a5 G'day all of you Chapman Stick loopers out there, I'm struggling to justify buying a JamMan (can you say "married with children"?) and I'm wondering about the sorts of things other Stickers are doing with looping. I've been fooling with looping on my Boss delay pedal for a while, but so far I've been getting much better results from guitar than from Stick. Although it's hard to describe "why" in words, guitar techniques that don't transpose to Stick well (such as whammy bar stuff, bending strings prior to picking them) seem to give me the best results. If anyone's got looped Stick audio on the web anywhere, I'd love a pointer to it just to hear what sort of things you're doing. In fact, any looped stuff at all (any instrument) that I could download would certainly be interesting. Regards Dave Mitchell PS By "Stick", I'm including Warr Guitar and other related instruments From ???@??? Mon Feb 03 09:50:11 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 3 05:06:46 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrO6f-0005uI-00; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 05:06:45 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 12:39:39 +0000 Message-ID: <000095EA.1424@mail.bl.uk> From: David.Orton@mail.bl.uk (David Orton) Subject: Looping for the masses To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"kP5ttB.A.pcF.zJe9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1972 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 05:06:45 -0800 X-UIDL: 09753fcdabd2eb2a03290173c4981928 Dear Loopers Presumably I'm not the only one to notice this, or everyone else considers too wide of the mark, but HotWired's Webmonkey page recently provided instructions on how to add an ambient audio loop to Web pages - with the proviso that it'll be as naff as blinking words in 6 months. So - do y'all want it to be *that* popular?! Oh geez - and me not having worked out how to get the Zoom 4040 to transmit MIDI messages to the JamOne yet... Anyway, I can't get back in at the moment for the full URL, but as of this morning its still linked at the bottom of the HotWired index page. David From ???@??? Mon Feb 03 09:50:09 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 3 04:48:41 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrNpA-0005S4-00; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 04:48:40 -0800 Message-Id: <18540.199702031246@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 12:46:26 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Re: music just for musicians? Resent-Message-ID: <"JZ8mCC.A._BF.a4d9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1971 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 04:48:40 -0800 X-UIDL: c47e536aab4ebaaa7af55dfef4f6afc3 Jon: >Seriously, this is by no means the first time your >arguments have been raised. Jeez - never mind my music, even my _arguments_ aren't original!! :( >I just think it's well worth pointing out some of >the things that you don't know so that you can be more informed about the full >scope of this debate. >Sorry you're not familiar with Manring. He's a real monster, and a heck of a >nice guy as well. As for Ms. Stern, besides the "female" aspect of including >her >in the ad, there's this tiny market here in the states called New York, wherin >Leni is indeed something of a musician's musician.On any given Sunday night you >can run into a host of NY who's whos hanging around the 55 dive. NY.... I think I've heard of that somewhere... oh, yes, Patrick Eggle Guitars named a model after it I think... :b I know that NY is pretty damn important as cities go, but to put it in persective consider the phrase "real musician's musician in LA/London/Paris", all of which hover about the 2/3x smaller than NY. If a box needs to sell globally it needs to be recognised by people not familiar witn the NY jazz scene, or even the jazz scene in toto (No, not Steve Lukather) which may/may not add up to the same thing. >While the >general public isn't so familiar with her, it's astounding how many of the >players are hip to what she's doing. ....and I'm sure they all bought JamMen! :) >Just as an example, the entire current >line-up of the Brecker Brothers band is comprised of her former band mates. And >they're all using the JamMan. Thought so! >Ask Michael Brecker how many people in NY are >following her, and he'll tell you that everyone who's playing owes something >>to her. There are a bunch of high profile session players who are always >asking >her what to buy. I know, 'cause they all called me. I know, it's just >New York, >but if you gotta start somewhere... Name-dropping will get you nowhere!! :) Speaking of which, how _do_ you pronounce Leni? I read an interview with her, after which I was none the wiser... >>> Remember, this box is for a wider audience than just guitar players. >>But guitar players really don't care. Well, most don't. >I dunno. If this list is any indicator, it seems like the creative types who >>are likely to use such a product really do care about other artists besides >guitarists. Yeah, but we're the real creative ones! :) I'd wager that whilst, by definition, loopers are creative types to a large degree, the average creativity (and even intelligence) on alt.gitar, is considerably lower. And that's still among computer-literate college kids. Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb From ???@??? Mon Feb 03 09:50:15 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 3 05:24:28 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrONn-0006SG-00; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 05:24:27 -0800 Date: 03 Feb 97 08:19:51 EST From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: music just for musicians? Message-ID: <970203131950_74074.1316_GHQ31-4@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"V_0U_B.A.j4F.tZe9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1973 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 05:24:27 -0800 X-UIDL: 3f4e101aab2c725a7877f5d0fe0dc07f Kim writes- >Yes, if you are trying to sell huge numbers, you aren't going to get it >with "musician's musician" type endorsers. You can have David Torn, Robert >Fripp, Leni Stern, Michael Manring and a host of other brilliant artists >and it won't equal one Smashing Pumpkins. Joe Perry and Slash have never >made any remarkably creative or innovative artistic statements, but they >sure sold a hell of a lot of Les Pauls.... But we're not selling guitars here. We're selling loopers. All guitar players need a guitar. Some guitar players need a looper. You have to start with the "need a looper" crowd to get to the point where you can make an impact with the "all guitarists" crowd. (i.e. get the obvious market before you can start to penetrate the rest of the world. Then, you might get lucky and find that magic crossover point. The big hit that launched the looper into the world of the mainstream. Still waiting...) Later, Jon From ???@??? Mon Feb 03 09:50:14 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 3 05:24:08 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrONT-0006Qr-00; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 05:24:07 -0800 Date: 03 Feb 97 08:19:53 EST From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: repopulate the species Message-ID: <970203131953_74074.1316_GHQ31-5@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"WEh7xD.A.w4F.uZe9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1974 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 05:24:07 -0800 X-UIDL: b44624aa3b00c61596fbf50024e09aad Kim writes: >Maybe you should keep holding the guitar and tell Bryan to tend the new >generation? > >Better yet, let someone else do the baby-making, and we'll just park our >vans near the local elementary school, dangling jammans from the window >saying "C'mere kiddies, want to try a weird hobby?" Not to go into hype mode, but I have to share a secret about my forthcoming CD (mixing later this week at Torn's...): On one track, there are three different guitar parts comprising the piece which were done completely independendt of each other. Put them together and you get sheer hell! V. cool, IMO. Anyway, the point is the fourth soundsource is my (at the time) newborn son. At a coupla weeks, he was a very vocal child, and there was nothing we could do to console him when he'd get going. You just have to wait it out. One night, he began his wailing at about 10:30 and I could tell that April (my wife) really needed a break. So I brought Harrison (vocal meister in question) downstairs and threw a coupla mikes up to record him. Later (several months) I processed/looped his vocalizing, and the results are audible on this track. Anyway, Sarajane: not all loopers leave the tending of their children to the more capable gender--some of us actually enjoy the time we get to spend with our young offspring. Even if it means less loopage. As a father of two and uncle of 11, I can tell you that the next generation is no better prepared for loopage than this one. Suffice it to say that all my nephews and neices can agree on one thing: "Uncle Jon, you're *so* weird!!!" Yeah, I know. Isn't it great? From ???@??? Mon Feb 03 09:50:17 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 3 05:36:55 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrOZp-0006t4-00; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 05:36:53 -0800 Date: 03 Feb 97 08:33:23 EST From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: music just for musicians? Message-ID: <970203133323_74074.1316_GHQ31-6@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"IN0d4C.A.nZG.xme9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1975 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 05:36:53 -0800 X-UIDL: bb3bffce87e4ca72311b7e8540fc6930 Michael writes: >Speaking of which, how _do_ you pronounce Leni? I read an interview with >her, after which I was none the wiser... She hereslf (in her inimitable German accent) says "leeeni" whereas most people say "laney". Me, I use "leeeni" cuz that's what she says. How would that sound with a Scottish accent? >....and I'm sure they all bought JamMen! :) Many did. Some did not. Some are still waiting for that glorius "all-in-one box" cuz they can't lug around a rack full of processors. >NY.... I think I've heard of that somewhere... oh, yes, Patrick Eggle >Guitars named a model after it I think... :b It's kinda like "Boston's been cancelled. But I wouldn't worry about it, it's not a big college town." >I know that NY is pretty damn important as cities go, but to put it in >persective consider the phrase "real musician's musician in >LA/London/Paris", all of which hover about the 2/3x smaller than NY. If a >box needs to sell globally it needs to be recognised by people not familiar >witn the NY jazz scene, or even the jazz scene in toto (No, not Steve >Lukather) which may/may not add up to the same thing. Yeah, LUKE! That's they guy we need. (Actually, our LA guys talked to him and he apparently babbled incoherently for a while, and they discontinued persuit...) >Yeah, but we're the real creative ones! :) >I'd wager that whilst, by definition, loopers are creative types to a large >degree, the average creativity (and even intelligence) on alt.gitar, is >considerably lower. And that's still among computer-literate college kids. Right, but if you don't even get the obvious target audience first, then you're really in trouble... From ???@??? Mon Feb 03 09:50:19 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 3 06:39:59 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrPYs-000162-00; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 06:39:58 -0800 Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 09:37:18 -0500 (EST) From: KingsleyD@aol.com Message-ID: <970203093100_1961399411@emout13.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Music just for musicians? Resent-Message-ID: <"wIRtfB.A.-7.khf9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1976 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 06:39:58 -0800 X-UIDL: e724ef62662889bdd0ce73eaf946ce5b Jon's comments about the regard in which Leni Stern is held in the NY musician community begs one question - do those people respond to an ad in GP (or Musician, or E-Musician, or whatever) or do they pick up on the Jam Man from talking to Leni, or observing her putting one to use? If they all called Jon because they *talked to* Leni, then what did the ads accomplish? I've had a lot of interest in my own Jam Man from local blues and rock guys who see it as a great practice device - instant rhythm guitar, y'know? Those guys have no idea who *any* of the people were in the ads, nor did they perceive the capability just described at all, even tho' Leni alluded to it in the ad. So who missed the boat here? I suppose that's a problem with any "new" device in the market - if you look at the JM primarily in terms of its genesis - being a "looping device" as relating to music such as Fripp/Eno, Torn, et. al. - it seems clear that you're limiting yourself to a pretty tiny percentage of the (not very big to begin with) MI market. Could someone at Lex have forseen the alternative possibilities and marketed the thing accordingly? Or were they done in by their apparently narrow range of musical taste and vision? (wot, no Chet Atkins fans there?!) What do you think, Jon? The price argument reminds me of Prior's Double Dark, a wonderful Philadelphia-brewed beer available for $2 - $3 a six back in the days when there were *no* drinkable American beers. Some marketing guy decided that they'd sell more if they were priced and sold more like imports - specifically Guinness - and all of a sudden the beer came in 4-paks which cost $6. Within a year, no more Prior's in any form. So what was the problem? Ahead of their time? Misguided marketing? Recession of '82? From *my* perspective as a loyal Prior's fan prior (;->) to their marketing suicide, the whole thing stunk. They took a perfectly good product - one which had basically no competitors - and $%#$$ed it over with a misguided marketing strategy. Can you imagine how well they'd have done if they had just held on at the level they were at, and caught the micro-brewery wave? My gut feeling is the JamMan is a perfectly good product, reasonably priced even at $350-400, that needed to wait for its market to develop. "But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong." --Kingsley From ???@??? Mon Feb 03 09:50:20 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 3 06:55:20 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrPnj-0001ho-00; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 06:55:19 -0800 Message-Id: <21996.199702031449@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 14:49:10 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Re: music just for musicians? Resent-Message-ID: <"xEaCyC.A.uVB.erf9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1977 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 06:55:19 -0800 X-UIDL: caf093c017af1cd1902cdc835136a43b >>Speaking of which, how _do_ you pronounce Leni? I read an interview with >>her, after which I was none the wiser... >She hereslf (in her inimitable German accent) says "leeeni" whereas most people >say "laney". Me, I use "leeeni" cuz that's what she says. How would that sound >with a Scottish accent? "Hen". But that's because _all_ women in Scotland get called Hen. "Nae look, Hen, tha'ss nae the key we're playin'in , ye ken?" (Now look, girl, that's not what key we're planing in, you understand?). Watch Braveheart and do your best. On similar lines, is my .sig decipherable to non-Scots? Incidentally, I'm not Scottish myself, I'm Welsh. I'm just a Scot by marriage. >>....and I'm sure they all bought JamMen! :) >Many did. Some did not. Some are still waiting for that glorius "all-in-one >box" cuz they can't lug around a rack full of processors. Does one particularly light box make the difference? >>NY.... I think I've heard of that somewhere... oh, yes, Patrick Eggle >>Guitars named a model after it I think... :b >It's kinda like "Boston's been cancelled. But I wouldn't worry about it, it's >not a big college town." Well I know there's a college in it 'cos a lectureship in my exact field was advertised for Cloumbia a few weeks ago. My wife just said there was no, _no_ way, not-in-a-million-years she was going anywhere near Manhattan.... Besides, I just read your homepage. You're _biased_, man!! :) :) :) >> If a >>box needs to sell globally it needs to be recognised by people not familiar >>witn the NY jazz scene, or even the jazz scene in toto (No, not Steve >>Lukather) which may/may not add up to the same thing. >Yeah, LUKE! That's they guy we need. (Actually, our LA guys talked to him and >>he apparently babbled incoherently for a while, and they discontinued >persuit) Having read interviews with him I can appreciate that!! Michael Getting further off-topic by the second.... Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb From ???@??? Mon Feb 03 09:50:23 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 3 09:02:03 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrRmL-0000Km-00; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 09:02:01 -0800 Message-Id: <9702031700.AA28277@beryllium.lexicon.com> Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 11:49:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: RE: Music just for musicians? To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V3.50c)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"m1Y3l.A.0QH.Pkh9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1978 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 09:02:01 -0800 X-UIDL: 0bed7edfe64f04dc3f33f5b9e602661f Well I tried to make a simple blanket statement about a very complex situation and it seems that I opened a big can of worms. Has Lexicon made mistakes? Yes, of course. We did try to create interest in the JAMMAN and Vortex. These products did not sell at 1/3 of the rate as the ALEX or REFLEX. Yes there were forecasting problems. Does Lexicon owe it to the community to keep products in the product line? I don't think so. Is Lexicon run by musicians? I wish. Is a discussion of corporate politics really very relevant to this list? I don't believe so but I suppose it is debatable. I do not get it. Which would be worse? The fact that we stopped shipping these products or if they were never made? I was warned when I arrived at this list that John Durant was almost railroaded off of this list. Well his interest in the art of looping has kept him here. I am not running away as I am used to taking the punishment for the actions of others(it has been my job for a long time.) But lets not waste time with this issue. It would be more constructive(and interesting) to discuss what everybody would like to see in the next generation of dedicated(or not) looping technology. Maybe if we are all good on the karmic scale Lexicon or Oberheim(or Roland or Alesis) might answer our prayers. Thank you and best regards, Greg Hogan Lexicon Customer Service Phone 617-280-0372 FAX 617-280-0499 From ???@??? Mon Feb 03 09:50:24 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 3 09:11:47 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrRvm-00018X-00; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 09:11:46 -0800 Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 12:07:55 -0500 (EST) From: Dpcoffin@aol.com Message-ID: <970203114418_1860756087@emout13.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: music just for musicians? Resent-Message-ID: <"UKPA-C.A.u2.wuh9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1979 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 09:11:46 -0800 X-UIDL: 4dc2c9318bb603e8acfb1d17807d8589 In pursuit of the one-box-do-it-all, I've been plaguing Greg with PCM-80 queries. The latest back'n'forth seems apropo: <> From ???@??? Mon Feb 03 09:50:25 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 3 09:42:55 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrSPu-0003JH-00; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 09:42:54 -0800 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199702031740.JAA12552@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: music just for musicians? To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 09:40:28 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <970202210216_-1643912031@emout18.mail.aol.com> from "PMimlitsch@aol.com" at Feb 2, 97 09:02:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pTXXZC.A.D7C.RMi9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1980 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 09:42:54 -0800 X-UIDL: ee01b234a0f17b54f5159c932252c941 > > > In a message dated 2/2/97 8:24:51 PM, Kim wrote: > > < made any remarkably creative or innovative artistic statements,>> > > Woa! How do you know what they do in their off time when their not playing > the corporate/commercial anything for a buck game? --Paul Not my intention to add to the flame, but Eddie Van Halen mentioned hs has recordings of himself playing expermental music that he feels he cannot get released. If I recall correctly, he mentioned quite a bit of it was prepared piano-type stuff. Paolo Valladolid --------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ---------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Mon Feb 03 23:20:23 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 3 10:08:53 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrSp1-0005aR-00; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:08:51 -0800 Message-Id: <27586.199702031804@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 18:04:53 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: RE: Music just for musicians? Resent-Message-ID: <"e3h_5B.A.o7E.fji9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1986 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:08:51 -0800 X-UIDL: 98774bea7d387276d856fb9e77bb54f5 In response to the latest to-ing and fro-ing between (principally) myself and Jon, Greg wrote the following: >Well I tried to make a simple blanket statement about a very complex >situation and it seems that I opened a big can of worms. More like Pandora's box... oops, wrong FX manufacturer! >Has Lexicon made >mistakes? Yes, of course. We did try to create interest in the JAMMAN and >Vortex. These products did not sell at 1/3 of the rate as the ALEX or >REFLEX. Yes there were forecasting problems. Does Lexicon owe it to the >community to keep products in the product line? I don't think so. Only when it's US!!! :) >I was warned when I arrived at this list that John Durant was almost >railroaded off of this list. Well his interest in the art of looping has >kept him here. That one actually came from me... at the time there was the big "why does the JM act like it's stereo" thing; Jon was taking flak and as I recall I posted trying to tell everyone that just 'cos Jon is a Lex employee, doesn't mean you attack him for Lex actions. Same here. The post about watching your back was in good humour, I assure you. >I am not running away as I am used to taking the punishment >for the actions of others(it has been my job for a long time.) But lets not >waste time with this issue. It would be more constructive(and interesting) >to discuss what everybody would like to see in the next generation of >dedicated(or not) looping technology. Maybe if we are all good on the >karmic scale Lexicon or Oberheim(or Roland or Alesis) might answer our >prayers. Greg, I think that you may have been taking the debate personally here, and if that's the case then I deeply and humbly apologise. I own a JamMan, and am trying to persuade my wife that we can afford a Vortex (though I've never heard one - I'm acting to words from this list). Like everyone else here I'm sadenned by Lex's dropping of these products (though grateful for the attendent drop in price!), but no-one is blaming you, or punishing you, I thought we were having a good-natured debate on why the sales values you mention happened, especially in the light of how cool we know these boxes are. >Yes there were forecasting problems. Does Lexicon owe it to the >community to keep products in the product line? I don't think so. >Is Lexicon run by musicians? I wish. Is a discussion of corporate politics >really very relevant to this list? I don't believe so but I suppose it is >debatable. Only when they influence us. >I do not get it. Which would be worse? The fact that we stopped shipping >these products or if they were never made? Many people around here would lose limbs rarther than Vortices. I thought we were debating why the rest of Humanity was stupid enough not to realise that. Sorry again, Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb From ???@??? Mon Feb 03 23:20:28 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 3 10:50:31 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrTTL-0000lw-00; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:50:31 -0800 Message-Id: <9702031848.AA28632@beryllium.lexicon.com> Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 13:38:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: Re: Music just for musicians? To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V3.50c)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"jxM9J.A.3b.MKj9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1988 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:50:31 -0800 X-UIDL: 844af4568e3805bb2ed7d93b3393dffe Hi again, I'm not as sensitive as my last post may have implied. There are definitely lessons to be learned in the past. I was just trying to steer topic closer to where I think it should be(only my opinion.) Best regards, Greg Hogan Lexicon Customer Service Phone 617-280-0372 FAX 617-280-0499 email: ghogan@lexicon.com From ???@??? Mon Feb 03 23:20:16 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 3 10:03:44 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrSk1-000563-00; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:03:41 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 16:07:00 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Go beyond? Resent-Message-ID: <"f8nwRB.A.ibE.9ei9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1982 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:03:42 -0800 X-UIDL: e464e19eac3704150d8c7f006423ab7f >Eventually (the topic is not new) I came across the little idea following. >Matthias, I think, although you changed it to "besides" I think, that >theword "Beyond" was perfectly chosen. >At first I mistook the sense like almost everyone here. But In fact we >have to go beyond -yes- not Fripp, or anyone (I have a strong reoccuring >problem with Allan Holdsworth) just because we have to go beyond the part >of these people work wwe have internalised (oh, again does it exist, an I >making myself clear?). In a way It has nothing to see with those artists, >it is just a problem between ourselves and... ourselves! Thank you for this nice interpretation, Olivier: Going beyond influences is going beyond ourselves - each time the present self, a vision of growth... to become magician? Everybody? It used to be the realm of a few, is this to change? Anyway, there is some magic to almost any work, especially music... nice. And then I would like to loop Jon: >So, thank you to all who've been sharing with us your secrets of creative >magic--I'm thoroughly gratified to encounter so many forward-thinking >musicians. >May you all find what you're seeking. Amen Matthias From ???@??? Mon Feb 03 23:20:21 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 3 10:06:43 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrSms-0005O8-00; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:06:38 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 16:07:06 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Synching a Vortex? Resent-Message-ID: <"Qr8jTB.A.OdE.Hfi9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1983 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:06:38 -0800 X-UIDL: 50e653d28ca30479bc5194803d270631 I forwarded a message of this kind before. Should we invite them to transfer this discussion to the loop list or transfer ours about Vortex to Synth-diy (where there are more solder iron interested) or ...found a Vortex list? :-) >Date: Thu, 30 Jan 97 18:06:48 -0500 >From: "Arnim X. Sauerbier" >Organization: Globelle >To: synth-diy@horus.sara.nl (DIY) >Cc: ajl@bitstream.net (Andrew Lunstad), > satti002@maroon.tc.umn.edu (Chris Sattinger), redbooklab@aol.com >Subject: Synching a Vortex? >Sender: owner-synth-diy@horus.sara.nl >Precedence: bulk > >Hi folks! > >Not a synth question, but a musical DIY topic nonetheless: > >I've got a Lexicon Vortex (worth the $149 sale price IMHO). It lets the >user set delay times by tapping a 'delay/tap' button twice. The box has >no MIDI interface, but I'd like to sync the delays to my MIDI sequences! > >I was thinking of the following hack: use one of the outputs of my drum >machine as a click, then build some kind of circuit that closes the >contact of the 'tap' switch whenever a voltage peak (from the drum >machine) is detected. > >What would such a circuit look-like? Perhaps a transistor that triggers >a relay that closes the 'tap' button? > >What would you do? Any other solutions that wouldn't involve using-up an >output on my Drumstation? > >Thanks! Sorry for my glaring ignorance. >------------------------ >Arnim Then the answer of Gene Stopp who is an experienced synth inventor. His posts are nice, clear and fundamented: >Date: Thu, 30 Jan 97 17:00:36 PST >From: gstopp@fibermux.com >Encoding: 59 Text >To: synth-diy@horus.sara.nl >Subject: Re: Synching a Vortex? >Sender: owner-synth-diy@horus.sara.nl >Precedence: bulk > > I think you are on the right track... > > It is distinctly possible that the Vortex tap footswitch input is > looking for a short to ground as the trigger event, in which case you > could skip the relay idea and just use the transistor to ground the > input (like a Moog S-trigger). To turn on the transistor you could use > a voltage trigger from a MIDI clock-to-voltage pulse converter, or > like you say derive a pulse from an audio event such as a drum hit. > > Converting the audio pulse to a voltage trigger can be done with an > envelope follower plus a comparator. Actually for such a specific > application you can probably throw together a simple > diode/cap/resistor peak detector into an op-amp into the transistor > and be done with it. Probably you'll need a 10x preamp on the front > end. It might have to be tweaked to the specific drum sound that you > use, but since the Vortex is expecting a "sloppy" pulse like a human > foot on a switch, it probably doesn't care too much about pulse > duration. > > The way I'd figure this out is with a protoboard, an assortment of > components, and a scope. Hey I have a Vortex now, maybe I'll check > this out some time (next week at the soonest...). > > A couple weeks ago I built a MIDI-clock to voltage pulse divider > circuit on a single chip, but that's another story... > > - Gene > gstopp@fibermux.com Then Saul Stokes >Hi Gene, I thought I would let you know that I would also be interested >in a circuit like this if you decided to think one up. There's probably >quite a few people actually. ...and another few on this list? Matthias From ???@??? Mon Feb 03 23:20:19 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 3 10:06:09 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrSmL-0005Kf-00; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:06:05 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 16:07:14 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Vortex CC pedal Resent-Message-ID: <"S0lEqB.A.ueE.Sfi9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1984 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:06:05 -0800 X-UIDL: f292538b7a545584f3b96075150faebd >I use an EV-5 as well. You may need to adjust the sweep range control for >optimum results. Electronics questions can be addressed to: wbrake@aol.com. > >Will Ah, Will, you could be the answer to my last post... From ???@??? Mon Feb 03 23:20:17 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 3 10:05:17 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrSlW-0005FG-00; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:05:14 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 16:07:20 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: music just for musicians? Resent-Message-ID: <"G9yxB.A.LgE.cfi9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1985 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:05:14 -0800 X-UIDL: 1b8b96c88fa6b71e0e8bf24097cd6c02 Jon: >>I still maintain that the easy answer is a looping card for the PCM 80. >>All the >>tools are in place, and it would be a really great product, albeit an >>expensive >>one. But no one wanted to hear it, so... I know a lot of instruments and equippment in this price range - is it that much more important? Dr. Hughes: >I never thought I'd _ever_ actually say this, but it would be cheaper to >buy a TC2290..... you get more front space and weight and nicer keys, but much less functionality, I think. Its 12 years old, after all! I am in favour of the PCM80 card In the next mail, on fire: >But it wasn't. It could have been pushed as the replacement EH16sec delay. > Robert Fripp should have been photographed with it as soon as it came out, >rather than waiting years till Obie produced a similar product. The LOOP delay was on the market one year before the JamMan and all the important functions of the later Echoplex, and if Obie had moved quicker... But do not worry too much about this side. Important is that we go ahead and let it grow. If we spread that we are a marginal group of ambient fans, it will not convince a manufacturer to spread products at accessible prices. If we get the vision of the wide possibilities, it will start happening for all of us. Matthias Oh, and please: do not compare delay units with loop units, its different worlds! From ???@??? Mon Feb 03 23:20:36 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 3 13:04:16 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrVYl-0001ia-00; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 13:04:15 -0800 Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 12:57:42 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: finley@ecst.csuchico.edu (Matthew F. McCabe) Subject: Re: JamMan upgrades Resent-Message-ID: <"CzsxAC.A.ZNB.MFl9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1989 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 13:04:15 -0800 X-UIDL: 31ca58354af3090b19e419870d7e3ca6 >> I told him about our list and he said for anyone interested in these >>JamMan tweaks to email him at so he can see how much >>interest and support is there for these mods and also to keep us posted on >>their progress > >I have not heard from Bob since so I don't know anything new, but if you >haven't emailed him yet please do so. >I also gave Bob our email address and told him to post directly to the list >if there is any news. > > Later Ed Right after you originally posted this message I fired off an email to Bob. Haven't heard anything. I suspect he's a busy man. Maybe we should pool a list of questions and send them in one email so as not to overwhelm the man. Just a thought.... Matt P.S. Uhh...I guess I just volunteered myself for the task! :-) ------------------------------------------------------------ King Never http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~finley/kingnever.html ------------------------------------------------------------ Matthew F. McCabe Able Cain King Never Marathon Records From ???@??? Mon Feb 03 23:20:40 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 3 13:48:04 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrWF8-0004aJ-00; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 13:48:02 -0800 Date: 03 Feb 97 16:19:54 EST From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: RE: Music just for musicians? Message-ID: <970203211953_74074.1316_GHQ138-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"-qhQED.A.b-D.Hwl9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1990 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 13:48:02 -0800 X-UIDL: 6c678a3fc7f624945d045a85a963db6b Michael writes: > I thought we were having a good-natured debate on why the sales values you >mention happened, especially in the light of how cool we know these boxes >are. I think we just stumbled onto the downside of cyberspace communique. I, too, thought this debate was all good-natured and fun, but it appears that others may have detected some un-intended animosity. So, I apologize for any seeming (or un-seemingly) flames: just trying to show a position. Also: Michael--I suspect you missed the "boston's not a big college town" reference: this is a line from "Spinal Tap", and if you've not seen the movie, you must. It should be required viewing for all musicians! As for corporate politics: they are an unfortunate obstacle to continuing development of such devices. My own cynicism is perhaps excessive due to my years being beaten over the head with it. A year's distance has really made me pale at what I saw. I wish it were otherwise, but it isn't. And I really don't suspect it would be any different at any other currently existing manuafacturer who expects to be profitable... >Many people around here would lose limbs rarther than Vortices. I thought >we were debating why the rest of Humanity was stupid enough not to realise >that. Is that where we started? I lost track somewhere down the line!!! Later, Jon Durant From ???@??? Mon Feb 03 23:20:44 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 3 15:04:34 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrXR9-0002OB-00; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 15:04:31 -0800 Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 18:01:31 -0500 From: neato@pipeline.com X-Sender: neato@pop.pipeline.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: RE: Music just for musicians?/gripe gripe Resent-Message-ID: <"uUBTpC.A.fBC.d5m9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1992 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 15:04:31 -0800 X-UIDL: 7b2b53855eeab5400a89680a19652cc6 Greg Hogan wrote >Well I tried to make a simple blanket statement about a very complex >situation and it seems that I opened a big can of worms. neato says: this is kind of funny...we're a group of individuals who somehow got together in time and space due to our interest in looping and loopers...to date the term loopers basically applies to 2 pieces of hardware-lexicon jamman and oberheim echoplex...not really much to choose from to begin with and now rather suddenly we are told the jamman is no more! what are we supposed to do? not question why? the reason is not because the jamman is a failed footnote in technology(the actual mechanics of the unit), but rather because the profit margin on it was not acceptable...fair enough..but i think we at least deserve the right to mull the situation over...this is not personal...just the ramblings of a few musicians who feel something they started has been jeopardized...we're one piece of equipment (obie) away from extinction!(wink wink) cheers all my mistakes were once acts of genius neato@pipeline com From ???@??? Mon Feb 03 23:20:51 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 3 15:50:36 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrY9i-0005lA-00; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 15:50:34 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970203235508.0099ee7c@xenon.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@xenon.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 15:55:08 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Boomerang "stack" button latching Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Resent-Message-ID: <"NtM3xB.A.sLF.gkn9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1994 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 15:50:34 -0800 X-UIDL: 0fed89c187436066bc79b0956a099ed1 At 11:38 AM 2/4/97 +1000, David_Mitchell@HP-Australia-notes1.om.hp.com wrote: >Does anyone know if this feature has been implemented yet? It seemed to be >the single major failing of the unit, according to the reviewer. > >Dave Mitchell I don't know the answer, but does anyone know if Boomerang is still in business? They weren't exhibiting at NAMM, which generally isn't a good sign. kim _______________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 Systems Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research From ???@??? Mon Feb 03 23:20:52 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 3 16:07:02 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrYPa-00078o-00; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 16:06:58 -0800 Message-ID: <32F67AFC.1359@ats.it> Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 00:55:40 +0100 From: Silvia Boschero X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: mistake Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7UJGY.A.MXG.Azn9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1995 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 16:06:58 -0800 X-UIDL: dadb4b5323ad5ae94f92098938f9e509 I think you made a mistake! I don't know anything about your "Boomerang", I'm sorry, probably you made a mistake with the address: silviab@ats.it is the address of a butcher company. Bie From ???@??? Mon Feb 03 23:20:54 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 3 16:18:17 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrYaW-0000MJ-00; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 16:18:16 -0800 Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 15:59:15 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Boomerang "stack" button latching In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19970203235508.0099ee7c@xenon.chromatic.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"SNTdXB.A.9C.29n9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1996 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 16:18:16 -0800 X-UIDL: f4c811cffad0618d4ab3e34e3508e9d8 On Mon, 3 Feb 1997, Kim Flint wrote: > I don't know the answer, but does anyone know if Boomerang is still in > business? They weren't exhibiting at NAMM, which generally isn't a good sign. I was wondering about that myself... I've only ever seen one unit in a store, at a Guitar Center shop. The sale price was about $350 -- same as a JamMan. Given the considerably smaller resources of the company as compared to Lexicon, I don't know how optimistic the future would be... Hopefully they're still around in one form or another. --Andre From ???@??? Tue Feb 04 03:22:50 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 4 01:31:21 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrhDk-0000Mb-00; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 01:31:20 -0800 Date: Tue, 4 Feb 97 01:19:24 UT From: "Pete Gilbert" Message-Id: To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: RE: Sticking with looping Resent-Message-ID: <"Qchui.A.pQ.aGw9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2002 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 01:31:20 -0800 X-UIDL: b403871a41fb66cfe477a90fef7d4927 I'm struggling to justify buying a JamMan (can you say "married with children"?) and I'm wondering about the sorts of things other Stickers are doing with looping. Stick actually loops quite nicely. You need to be careful that the percussive attack of the bass notes don't distort, but other than that, just about everything should loop fine. I've been looping the stick for three years or so. I usually loop the melody end. My partner likes to loop primarily the bass end of his stick. This way we don't walk on top of each other. I don't have any examples of this on the net, yet. We are finishing up mixing and I hope to take a track or two from that an place it on the web. I will post here once things are finished. Pete From ???@??? Mon Feb 03 23:20:50 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 3 15:43:02 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrY2N-00056g-00; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 15:42:59 -0800 From: David_Mitchell@HP-Australia-notes1.om.hp.com X-Openmail-Hops: 2 Date: Tue, 4 Feb 97 11:38:16 +1000 In-Reply-To: <"NOTES_CORRELATION_ITEM*"@MHS> Message-Id: <"82114:1*"@MHS> Subject: Boomerang "stack" button latching Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="Lotus" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"AJVOg.A.4jE.Idn9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1993 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 15:42:59 -0800 X-UIDL: 5473d08239531fb445cf50b86e3c9cca Some time back someone pointed out that the "stack" button on the Boomerang needs to be held down when layering sounds in a loop. I re-read an old magazine review (written mid-96) of the Boomerang last night where this was pointed out to the manufacturer as a failing of the unit. The manufacturer replied that they were considering implementing the "stack" feature via a latched button - double click on the button enabled stacking, double click again to disable - due to user feedback. From the gist of the article, I got the impression that this might be a software update only and not involve a physical switch replacement. Does anyone know if this feature has been implemented yet? It seemed to be the single major failing of the unit, according to the reviewer. Dave Mitchell From ???@??? Mon Feb 03 23:21:03 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 3 22:48:02 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrefg-0001Nu-00; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 22:48:00 -0800 From: sarajane@tmbsbbs.com (Sarajane) Subject: the proof of the pudding.... Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 02:32:22 GMT Message-Id: <970203234328147@tmbsbbs.com> Organization: The Malibu Bikini Shop BBS - 303.772.8549 - 28.8 To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Resent-Message-ID: <"LXDpTD.A.LDB.vqt9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1998 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 22:48:00 -0800 X-UIDL: e61a9c665be3e691d28feeb435578225 Greetings Loopers, Just a couple of quick observations on the flow of babble on the LD of late. 1. 8000 JamMan units sold.How many Echoplex DP? EH 16 sec? 2. 125 subsribers to the LD list...just scratching the surface of loopers worldwide..but a great start. 3. Do loopers want to court corporate techno-moguls in order to stand a chance in hell of seeing a looping device that performs all the deeply desired and unique functions that only loopers lust for... A.Expandable loop time B.Reverse function C.Half speed playback D.Multiply and Undo functions E.Stereo processing-entire signal path F.No factory-sanctioned glitches 4-Will this group of players feel the need to congregate together at some point in the future to share performances and information, and to solcit industry to makes it's pitch and contribute to the cost of such an event? 5- Should we be telling anyone about this kind of music in that they are already listening to loops in many aspects of modern audio production and could care less about the artform. Is there a collective sense that loop oriented music deserves a better fate than most work made available for sale in this pop culture. 6- Oh and by the way I do my fair share of childcare and cleaning, lest my wife's recent remarks lead you to believe otherwise.... isn't that right dear? Bryan Helm "32 seconds is not long enough" From ???@??? Tue Feb 04 03:22:59 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 4 02:30:56 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vri9Q-0001xn-00; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 02:30:56 -0800 Message-ID: <32F6A9A3.6550@ats.it> Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 04:14:55 +0100 From: Silvia Boschero X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: do not write me Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"aCMWE.A.nxB.n-w9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2004 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 02:30:56 -0800 X-UIDL: 57a2203ed93ead4133e48792aa33c525 I'm not more a player, so please don't write any more. Thank, Silvia From ???@??? Mon Feb 03 23:21:01 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 3 20:31:10 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrcXC-0001At-00; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 20:31:06 -0800 X-Sender: ejmd@pop.erols.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 23:31:07 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Ed Drake Subject: Re: JamMan upgrades Resent-Message-ID: <"jMiJaD.A.h6.srr9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1997 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 20:31:06 -0800 X-UIDL: 83aa0874c828940b689785873851c169 Ed said: >>> I told him about our list and he said for anyone interested in these >>>JamMan tweaks to email him at so he can see how much >>>interest and support is there for these mods and also to keep us posted on >>>their progress >> >>I have not heard from Bob since so I don't know anything new, but if you >>haven't emailed him yet please do so. >>I also gave Bob our email address and told him to post directly to the list >>if there is any news. >> >> Later Ed Matt said: >Right after you originally posted this message I fired off an email to Bob. >Haven't heard anything. I suspect he's a busy man. Maybe we should pool >a list of questions and send them in one email so as not to overwhelm the >man. Just a thought.... > >Matt > >P.S. Uhh...I guess I just volunteered myself for the task! :-) Matt When I talked to Bob for 5 minutes or so that day, I got the impression he was very busy. He said it was funny that I had called about the Upgrade because he had just fired off a new eprom to try out for the upgrade the night before. One other thing he said that I had forgotten in my original post, was about the stereo loops and how you could pan them too! I got the impression this whole upgrade thing might still be a little while, because licensing the software from Lex had to be worked out. If you do email him, ask him what time frame for the upgrade and what new things are being implemented. Trev said: >You know, there is one tweak I would be very interested in: either >playing my loops backwards, or being able to have a backwards sample >loop. > >I figure that there must be a way to do this using a sequencer/drum >machine/whatever, but the whole reason I like my JamSter is that I don't >have to mess with that. > >Am I missing something here? > >Trev Trev, I want to make sure I understand you. Do you mean have the backwards sample loop around with out having to trigger it via footswitch ? I'm not sure. You can't play loops backwards, you can only play backwards in the sample mode (one pass sample which means no layering, etc.) Also I'm not sure but I think the MIDI clock, which runs sequencers and drum machines, doesn't work in the sample Mode only in either of the Loop Modes. Ed From ???@??? Mon Feb 03 23:21:04 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 3 22:49:03 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vregf-0001TI-00; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 22:49:01 -0800 Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 01:46:26 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199702040646.BAA16561@shell.monmouth.com> X-Sender: andre@monmouth.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: andre Subject: Re: music just for musicians? Resent-Message-ID: <"zGfFH.A.zNB.dtt9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1999 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 22:49:01 -0800 X-UIDL: 996ef361d4eb80c194862b3ade7bb010 At 09:02 PM 2/2/97 -0500, you wrote: > >In a message dated 2/2/97 8:24:51 PM, Kim wrote: > ><made any remarkably creative or innovative artistic statements,>> > >Woa! How do you know what they do in their off time when their not playing >the corporate/commercial anything for a buck game? --Paul > awww, c'mon now - let's not descend into a slagging war !! Like him or not, Joe Perry has put the hard time in - playing his brand of blues-soaked riff rock - there's a place for simple - straight into the amp stuff too !! Slash - well - he seems into his music enough to have quit G 'n R to due a more blues-based thing with his "snake pit"... anyway - let's not fall into what the "other side" does - when they slag everything within a mile of a rack of any sort. andre (nj) loops away !!!! From ???@??? Mon Feb 03 23:21:05 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 3 22:51:34 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrej6-0001ij-00; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 22:51:32 -0800 Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 01:49:08 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199702040649.BAA16831@shell.monmouth.com> X-Sender: andre@monmouth.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: andre Subject: Re: Looping for the masses Resent-Message-ID: <"JkxtZB.A.ZbB._vt9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2000 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 22:51:32 -0800 X-UIDL: 043ab1ef34d4b798a754ae95efec7b5f At 12:39 PM 2/3/97 +0000, you wrote: > Dear Loopers > > Presumably I'm not the only one to notice this, or everyone else considers too wide of the mark, but HotWired's Webmonkey page recently > provided instructions on how to add an ambient audio loop to Web pages > - with the proviso that it'll be as naff as blinking words in 6 > months. So - do y'all want it to be *that* popular?! hey ! anyone notice if you morph the above gentleman's name - David Orton it becomes David O. Torn... silly me andre (sorry dave) From ???@??? Tue Feb 04 03:22:49 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 4 01:19:19 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrh26-0007kU-00; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 01:19:18 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 09:09:01 +0000 Message-ID: <00009D19.1424@mail.bl.uk> From: David.Orton@mail.bl.uk (David Orton) Subject: Re[2]: Looping for the masses To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"XUBQGC.A.HNH.S7v9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2001 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 01:19:18 -0800 X-UIDL: 9aedaf918cbd48456b693b6ed6f369c8 Andre observes: >hey ! anyone notice if you morph...David Orton > >it becomes David O. Torn... > >silly me >andre > >(sorry dave) ...which of course explains why I took a risk on the Everyman Band album all those years ago... David (the semi-legendary non-anagram and in no way related to Joe or Beth) http://subnet.virtual-pc.com/~or387751/ From ???@??? Tue Feb 04 03:22:58 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 4 02:16:49 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrhvl-0001Y2-00; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 02:16:49 -0800 Message-Id: <9792.199702041015@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 10:15:33 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: RE: Music just for musicians? Resent-Message-ID: <"2HuhUD.A.pVB.yww9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2003 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 02:16:49 -0800 X-UIDL: 0808497d69db426c841feb4fc0ab5027 Jon: >Michael writes: >> I thought we were having a good-natured debate on why the sales values you >>mention happened, especially in the light of how cool we know these boxes >>are. > I, too, thought this debate was all good-natured and fun, but it appears that >>others may have detected some un-intended animosity. So there we go - Jon and I were having a good time, and if anyone else wasn't that's not our problem! :):) Seriously, I think I've learned from this experience how difficult it is to phrase things humourously without offending people.... I'll have to try harder next time >:] > Michael--I suspect >you missed the "boston's not a big college town" reference: this is a line from >"Spinal Tap", and if you've not seen the movie, you must. It should be required >viewing for all musicians! You're right - I missed that one!! It's a while since I saw that. "How much more cool could my Vortex be? None more cool." Hey, that's it!! Lex should've used NIGEL TUFNELL to advertise the Vortex!! :) >>Many people around here would lose limbs rarther than Vortices. I thought >>we were debating why the rest of Humanity was stupid enough not to realise >>that. >Is that where we started? I lost track somewhere down the line!!! I can't actully remember where we started, but I'm sure we got onto that somewhere..... Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb From ???@??? Tue Feb 04 03:31:18 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 4 03:26:57 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrj1b-0004AU-00; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 03:26:55 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 03:22:37 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: music just for musicians? Resent-Message-ID: <"VNYbV.A.kyD.syx9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2005 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 03:26:55 -0800 X-UIDL: e57928909aa7cb665800b3f4378ac07e Status: O X-Status: >At 09:02 PM 2/2/97 -0500, you wrote: >> >>In a message dated 2/2/97 8:24:51 PM, Kim wrote: >> >><>made any remarkably creative or innovative artistic statements,>> >> >>Woa! How do you know what they do in their off time when their not playing >>the corporate/commercial anything for a buck game? --Paul >> > > >awww, c'mon now - let's not descend into a slagging war !! Like him or not, >Joe Perry has put the hard time in - playing his brand of blues-soaked riff >rock - there's a place for simple - straight into the amp stuff too !! > >Slash - well - he seems into his music enough to have quit G 'n R to due a >more blues-based thing with his "snake pit"... anyway - let's not fall into >what the "other side" does - when they slag everything within a mile of a >rack of any sort. oops. More cyber juju. My quote there got slightly decontextualized, therby making me look like an ass. I probably didn't word it very well in the first place. I'll go out on a limb and admit that I've really enjoyed music made by both G'nR and Aerosmith. I've also met Slash and found him to be a really nice fellow. I honestly wish I could rock out with even a fraction of the attitude that comes from the fingers of these two. What I was trying to say was this: they make music that, while often times quite good, is also quite conventional. This combination of good and conventional has translated into enormous popularity for both. This popularity coupled with the use of Les Pauls translated into huge revenue for Gibson. The point of all this was that if you want to sell huge numbers of a product in the MI industry (like a lot more than 8000, I guess) it helps to have endorsers who reach a huge audience. Especially if your product is of the inexpensive variety where it is likely to appeal to younger musicians and impulse buyers. Now with a thing like looping, it is a new idea for much of the music world. That's where the musician's musician and experimental avant-garde types come in. They try new things and invent ways to use them creatively. Some of those ideas trickle into the mainstream, causing a resulting interest in that idea/product from more mainstream players. This takes time, because you are essentially creating a market. To profit from this, a manufacturer needs a clear vision of what the market is doing, and patience. One misperception that has come up in this thread several times is the idea that looping hasn't yet appeared in popular music. I totally disagree with that. Run-DMC's version of "Walk this Way" in the early eighties was a huge hit, and that was all about looping. Hiphop and rap has been looping away ever since, and I think both Lexicon and Oberheim/Gibson missed a giant opportunity there. One DJ Jazzy Jeff endorsement would easily eclipse all the guitarists that have endorsed either product. The problem was a failure to connect the products with the obvious market. I don't know what Lexicon's excuse is, but you can probably imagine how far my suggestions of using rap artists as endorsers went at a guitar company based in Tennessee. And then there are heavy bands like Ministry and White Zombie, using tons of loops and getting tons of airplay on MTV every day. And there's Beck's Odelay album, proving that even alternative rockers can figure this out. And there's Chet Atkins and Phil Keagey. And there's the huge techno scene which is only just starting to happen in the US but has been all over Europe for years. (How do you explain the Orb to people who have never even heard of Trent Reznor?) Another misperception I'd like to skewer is the idea that there are no other companies making loopers and that there is no money in it. Just about every dj mixer I saw at NAMM had a looper built in. They were primitive compared to jamman/echoplexes, but there they were. Akai had dedicated loopers that were really quite cool. So did Denon. They were making high profile showings with this stuff, and obviously see a big market in the techno/dance/hiphop arena. Some big name companies who weren't showing such products expressed a very great desire to get into it. So there will probably be more loopers in the future. You'll just have to go to the keyboard and dj sections of the music store to find them because they aren't being marketed to guitar players. The people at Denon didn't seem to even know who Robert Fripp was, nor did they really seem to care. The popularity of guitar music is currently dropping like a brick, and all the manufacturers are tripping over themselves to try and figure out how to make cheap products for all the kids making techno in their bedrooms. Anyhoo, enough spewing for this evening..... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Feb 04 03:31:20 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 4 03:26:57 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrj1b-0004AS-00; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 03:26:55 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 03:22:41 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: RE: Music just for musicians? Resent-Message-ID: <"jsiEaB.A.azD.xyx9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2006 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 03:26:55 -0800 X-UIDL: 185a0a884db09b4401c951ac3612ca72 Status: O X-Status: At 11:49 AM 2/3/97, Hogan, Greg wrote: >Well I tried to make a simple blanket statement about a very complex >situation and it seems that I opened a big can of worms. Has Lexicon made Hang in there, Greg. A few months ago it was open season on our poor little Echoplex. You ain't seen nothin'. The phone wires were practically melting each time I downloaded my mail,,,:-) >I was warned when I arrived at this list that John Durant was almost >railroaded off of this list. Well his interest in the art of looping has >kept him here. I am not running away as I am used to taking the punishment Well, I must be a serious masochist, because I started this whole damn thing..... Seriously, being in customer support, I'm sure you know that your harshest critics are often times your most loyal customers. They care enough to offer criticism, although sometimes they aren't as tactful about it as one might hope. The people who really don't like the product just go away and you never hear from them at all. After a good bout of whining, some non-user will say something to the effect of "well if this product is as horrible as you say, why don't you just sell it and shut up? I'm sure not gonna buy one!" And then the critics/whiners will suddenly realize how much damage they are causing and leap to the product's defense, with stuff about how much they love it and how all those complaints were really very minor, etc, etc.....;-) kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Feb 04 10:34:13 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 4 04:58:20 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrkS3-0006He-00; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 04:58:19 -0800 Date: 04 Feb 97 07:51:14 EST From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: RE: Music just for musicians? Message-ID: <970204125113_74074.1316_GHQ27-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"bnCmrC.A.6xF.rFz9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2007 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 04:58:19 -0800 X-UIDL: 2bff00985574a25a518563c5c56616fb Michael Writes- >You're right - I missed that one!! It's a while since I saw that. >"How much more cool could my Vortex be? None more cool." >Hey, that's it!! Lex should've used NIGEL TUFNELL to advertise the >Vortex!! :) And, if you can see here, these knobs go to 64!!!!! And Kim, speaking of selling Les Pauls, Nigel's '59 beauty with the sustain ("listen". "I'm not hearing anything." "Well, you would, if it were plugged in.") must've sold 2 or 3. In the immortal words of Johnny Lydon, "Is everybody HAPPY?" Out for a bit, Jon Durant From ???@??? Tue Feb 04 10:34:22 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 4 07:56:43 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrnEg-0004yz-00; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 07:56:42 -0800 Message-Id: <9702041555.AA02609@beryllium.lexicon.com> Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 10:44:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: RE: Music just for musicians? To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V3.50c)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"iyCGH.A.XaE.ct19y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2008 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 07:56:42 -0800 X-UIDL: 55b50d94a9a193c250806da5f25cecab Hello, Your interpretation of my interpretations where misinterpreted. I am not nearly as sensitive to these subjects as I seem to have come across. My angle is that I do not believe that the JAMMAN will be resurrected and that a gripe session or going over the situation preceding the products demise is not really productive in getting the result that I think we are striving for which is:Getting the product that everyone wants to see(dedicated full featured looper) to the market. Hypothetically:If Lexicon were to build JAMMAN again, how many should we build and at what price should they be made available to the public? Please DO NOT answer this question! Instead please answer: What do you want in a full featured looper and what would you be willing to pay for it? Thank you and best regards, Greg Hogan Lexicon Customer Service Phone 617-280-0372 FAX 617-280-0499 email:ghogan@lexicon.com P.S. Other than my capacity as a Technical Support Specialist I am not involved in product development here at Lexicon. This is of personal interest only. From ???@??? Tue Feb 04 22:52:25 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 4 11:08:13 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrqE0-0002hd-00; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 11:08:12 -0800 X-Sender: ejmd@pop.erols.com (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <32F8B044.167E@nyfac.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 14:07:29 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Ed Drake Subject: JamMan info for LD Web page Resent-Message-ID: <"WsKtCB.A.ARC.hh49y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2013 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 11:08:12 -0800 X-UIDL: 6e01e49bde37278a96caa3eca6c45099 Hello JamMan loopers, I am attempting to collect info about the JamMan to put on the LD Web pages. At this point I have started to go back and sift JamMan related stuff from the List archives to put in a convenient form for all to access. This process will take a while, so if anyone wants to help out, please contact me. Also if anyone has anything that might be of interest to JamMan users, please submit it. There will probably be several categories of topics such as memory info, tips and tricks, limitations, famous JamMan users, etc. These are not set in stone so if anybody has any ideas for anything please let me know, feedback (no pun intended) is appreciated. This will most likely take at least a week or two to put together, so please help out. Ed From ???@??? Mon Feb 03 23:19:37 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 3 10:00:05 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrSgV-0004fu-00; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:00:03 -0800 Sender: soft@nyfac.com Message-ID: <32F77BA0.167E@nyfac.com> Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 13:10:40 -0500 From: nyfac X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; IRIX 5.3 IP22) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Starting again References: <199702020054.QAA00169@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pvfjgC.A.YKE._bi9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1981 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:00:03 -0800 X-UIDL: f81a6226472a7ff72b0dff66f3bb1b23 > Wrong, Trev. _I_ wrote the above paragraph. Uh, oops. > TW actually thinks of his relationship with music as being a marriage; > has its ups and downs. My personal relationship with music is not that > Does that make me less "legitimate" a musician? I don't that is a question of legitimacy when it comes to music. If you bang on a pan and call it a tune, who is to say you are wrong? There are always arguments of quality, however! :-) > Guys like TW might argue that we who must put in 40 hours a week doing > something other than music are sacrificing time that could have been > spent just making music. On the other hand, consider, like Trev > says about, that we don't have to play the music business game. Unless > you are already very rich and need not worry about income, you have to > play the music business game if you don't have a fulltime job doing > something other than music. I like my job, but when I get out, the idea of slashing out some dissonant squalls on the ol' Jag-o-caster has quite an appeal. > Let's not forget there is no right or wrong here. > > Paolo Valladolid Truer words never spoken. Trev From ???@??? Mon Feb 03 23:20:25 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 3 10:13:00 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrSsz-0005xp-00; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:12:57 -0800 Sender: soft@nyfac.com Message-ID: <32F77E7E.2781@nyfac.com> Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 13:22:54 -0500 From: nyfac X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; IRIX 5.3 IP22) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Music just for musicians? References: <9702031700.AA28277@beryllium.lexicon.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lu3aiC.A.2UF.rni9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1987 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:12:57 -0800 X-UIDL: 76fc239699ce5566f035c3f76aad8087 Hogan, Greg- Keep your chin up. I don't think anyone here has any hostility towards you- At least I hope not. I for one am grateful for your presence on this list. If you're ever down NYC way, I would be pleased to prucase you the cold beverage of your choice. Trev From ???@??? Tue Feb 04 10:47:42 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 4 10:46:42 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrpt9-0000mS-00; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 10:46:39 -0800 Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 13:42:02 -0500 (EST) From: Dpcoffin@aol.com Message-ID: <970204134054_-1677245873@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: RE: Music just for musicians? Resent-Message-ID: <"ikGgQC.A.Zc.sM49y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2010 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 10:46:39 -0800 X-UIDL: e479036a9d2fddc01819e7a488119b95 Greg asks: <> Here's my response: Since I haven't had the pleasure of using a full-featured looper (just have a Vortex at this point), I lean toward a full featured multi-fx, that includes, or can be expanded to include, serious looping potential, i.e. over 30 sec. stereo loops, at minimum. All the time tricks that the Jamman could reportedly perform sound cool, but in theory at least, I also like the idea of using following fx to morph and mutate a loop as it rolls by. Editing and storage potential seem critical, if the price is high (having to buy TWO echoplexPros to get stereo seems too high to me, for a setup that "just" loops). My druthers at this point would be upgrade or card options for the MPX or PCM-80, or something similar. David From ???@??? Tue Feb 04 22:52:17 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 4 10:53:52 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrq05-0001QR-00; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 10:53:49 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 10:45:38 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: RE: Music just for musicians? Resent-Message-ID: <"NhMX6C.A.q6.JS49y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2011 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 10:53:49 -0800 X-UIDL: 2b62c12aec20fe12b7baf967fcd38543 >Michael Writes- > >>You're right - I missed that one!! It's a while since I saw that. >>"How much more cool could my Vortex be? None more cool." >>Hey, that's it!! Lex should've used NIGEL TUFNELL to advertise the >Vortex!! >:) > >And, if you can see here, these knobs go to 64!!!!! > >And Kim, speaking of selling Les Pauls, Nigel's '59 beauty with the sustain >("listen". "I'm not hearing anything." "Well, you would, if it were plugged >in.") must've sold 2 or 3. > Do you guys remember that Marshall really did have Nigel Tufnel as an endorser a few years ago? "This one goes to 20" I think it was. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Feb 04 22:52:21 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 4 10:56:28 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrq2b-0001fH-00; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 10:56:25 -0800 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199702041852.KAA23485@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: On future looping machines To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 10:52:28 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <970204134054_-1677245873@emout10.mail.aol.com> from "Dpcoffin@aol.com" at Feb 4, 97 01:42:02 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"h5oLWC.A.hOB.yV49y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2012 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 10:56:25 -0800 X-UIDL: fdc1a658dc37dc4a4f43708c670da09c Hope no one minds the subject change... My vote goes to the looping card option as well. While I would like to see a low-cost, standalone looper to replace the JamMan, it seems like the card option for the PCM80 or whatever would be the most viable solution from Lexicon's point of view as well as ours. Paolo Valladolid --------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ---------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Tue Feb 04 22:52:39 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 4 12:00:00 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrr26-0006lb-00; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 11:59:58 -0800 Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 14:54:33 -0500 From: "Jason N. Joseph" <73311.213@compuserve.com> Subject: Some ideas... To: Loopers-Delight Message-ID: <199702041454_MC2-10CF-3690@compuserve.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"krCvgC.A.NAG.TR59y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2015 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 11:59:58 -0800 X-UIDL: 285356c48c9beb891e28b20664f31ce1 Hey folks, I've *greatly* enjoyed all the discussion of late, and have decided to get y'alls (sorry but I am in Lubbock, TX) input on some ideas I've been cooking up. Pardon if this seems naive in the ways of loopage, but I'm still very much captivated by one of the simple ideas Brian Eno cooked up in making that first looping delay system for Fripp, and that Eno still uses quite a bit (don't know about Fripp): basically different loops of differing lengths played over each other such that the ways they will interact musically is unpredictable. I've had my Jamman for awhile, but have only recently began to explore this via recording one loop to one track on my DA-88, then another to another, etc., and listening to the end results. The problem with this is that there is not as much spontaneity as having them loop over each other live (I'd *love* to see a looping machine do that). Anyhow, on expressing my frustration at the limitations of this to my "non-musician" but experimentally-minded friend Dave, he came up with the following, which I'd love to get everyone's thoughts/reactions to: >Ever play the game "Life" on >the computer? Not much of a game, really. You have a 2-D grid and in each >square of the grid you can place a marker representing a cell. Place as many >cells as you want wherever you want, then hit "go" and watch the results. >The cells either live, die, or reproduce based on certain rules. Something >like, if in the 8 squares surrouding square(x,y) there are two cells, a cell >is born in square(x,y). Or, if in the 8 squares surrounding square(x,y) >there are four or more cells, the cell in square(x,y) dies. Usually the >population of cells dies off after a few turns. I guess the goal of the game >was to get a population of cells that lived a long time, but people found out >that there were ways to place the cells such that the population would >oscillate between one pattern and another, or some placements would turn into >small groupings of cells that would oscillate and fly off the board. Got it? > > >OK, my idea is to do something similar w/ music. Start out with four (for >this example) simple drones(or sound loops or whatever) and periodically >measure some measurable variable of the drones (some examples: 1) number of >frequency components in the drone above/below x hertz 2) delay of the drone >above or below its starting value 3) reverberation of the drone 4) distortion >in the drone 5) volume). I don't even know if some of these variables can be >measured but you get the idea. Anyway have the drones react to one another >based on some set rules, like if drone1 has x number of frequency components >above 5kHz then adjust the distortion of drone2 by some function represented >by f1(x). Or if the delay of drone3 is y seconds, then add f2(y) frequency >components to drone 4 whose values are given by f3(y, f2(y)). Maybe in >addition to rules to alter the drones you have rules governing the death and >birth of other drones. > >What you'd have instead of a few sound loops with different periods where the >interest would be to see how they recombine to sound different at different >times would be sound that actually react to other sounds and can give birth >to a sound or hook up with another sound to kill a third sound off. Sure >it's pretty much impossible or at least super-hyper daunting but it sure does >make ya wet yer pants with the possibilities. > Anybody think this is remotely possible with the devices we have today? Any other thoughts on how to put some fresh, (relatively) unpredictable or at least systemic experimentation into looping? Thanks in advance for your thoughts. jj jj1@compuserve.com From ???@??? Tue Feb 04 22:52:27 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 4 11:11:05 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrqGm-0002w0-00; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 11:11:04 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 17:14:02 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Music just for musicians? Resent-Message-ID: <"KVSyID.A.ceC.3j49y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2014 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 11:11:04 -0800 X-UIDL: a822712771cc08e1f89464db399b88ac >The price argument reminds me of Prior's Double Dark, a wonderful >Philadelphia-brewed beer available for $2 - $3 a six back in the days when >there were *no* drinkable American beers. Some marketing guy decided that >they'd sell more if they were priced and sold more like imports - >specifically Guinness - and all of a sudden the beer came in 4-paks which >cost $6. Within a year, no more Prior's in any form. So what was the problem? >Ahead of their time? Misguided marketing? Recession of '82? From *my* >perspective as a loyal Prior's fan prior (;->) to their marketing suicide, >the whole thing stunk. They took a perfectly good product - one which had >basically no competitors - and $%#$$ed it over with a misguided marketing >strategy. Can you imagine how well they'd have done if they had just held on >at the level they were at, and caught the micro-brewery wave? My gut feeling >is the JamMan is a perfectly good product, reasonably priced even at >$350-400, that needed to wait for its market to develop. Dont worry too much. It looks like the Plex is holding this position (it actually IS mainly imported technology :-), and as you point out, its not the price that makes the success of such a product, but rather: uniqueness x smart marketing x time. So at the moment, helping Oberheim by demonstrating and explaining what it does is maybe the best we can do for the survival of the species (and my own :-). Matthias Oh, Greg just said it his way: > But lets not >waste time with this issue. It would be more constructive(and interesting) >to discuss what everybody would like to see in the next generation of >dedicated(or not) looping technology. Maybe if we are all good on the >karmic scale Lexicon or Oberheim(or Roland or Alesis) might answer our >prayers. Thanks From ???@??? Tue Feb 04 22:52:49 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 4 13:16:16 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrsDw-0004SC-00; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 13:16:16 -0800 Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 12:54:55 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: RE: Music just for musicians? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ZfOwGD.A.F2D.uX69y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2016 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 13:16:16 -0800 X-UIDL: 05b048e3e8e5172a067210364d21e5b9 On Tue, 4 Feb 1997, Kim Flint wrote: > Do you guys remember that Marshall really did have Nigel Tufnel as an > endorser a few years ago? "This one goes to 20" I think it was. Yeah, that's the quote, which was followed by, "...that's 9 louder, innit?!" --Andre From ???@??? Tue Feb 04 22:52:51 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 4 13:31:26 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrsSb-0005TV-00; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 13:31:25 -0800 Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 13:11:51 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: The different sides of loop music In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"TYz40C.A.G4E.in69y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2017 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 13:31:25 -0800 X-UIDL: 46989cf2bedcf5040a65682a12eb607d In reply to Kim's dissertation of the increasing prevalance of looping in popular music -- All very good points that are raised, with regards to the increasing visibility of looping features in DJ Mixers and electronica-oriented instruments, as well as the whole British rave scene (which EVERY magazine I read these days says is sure to usurp the allegedly rotting corpse of rock and role as the new popular music form here in the states any second now...) and the MTV-ready advent of White Zombie, et al. However, I do feel that there's a fundamental difference between what nearly all of the above areas relate to as opposed to what most of this list deals with. In essence, most loop-oriented music that's emergent in popular music is based on sampling already-existing source music and then re-contextualizing it (or not) in order to produce a new (or not-so-new) end product. It's a very studio-oriented endeavor, which involves sampling the source, probably tweaking and filtering the original sample, editing the length of the sample, assigning it to a sequencer for triggering, and then possibly blending it into a sonic collage with a myriad of other sounds and instruments. The difference between that approach and the Big Three is that the JamMan/Echoplex/Boomerang are specifically designed as real-time tools, which excel at creating and editing loops right then and there, in the same moment that the music is happening. Moreover, they're geared less around sampling music that already exists, and more towards acting as a conduit for sculpting new music that wouldn't exist without the mechanism of the unit's functions. Traditional samplers capture music that's already been made; loopers help create music in the here and now. (This is of course a bit of an over-generalization). So the way that music is made using an actual Big Three-type looper is, in my estimation, a very different sort of proposition, both mechanically and philosophically, than using a studio-based sampler to edit pieces together in step time. There are provisions in the JamMan and Echoplex for MIDI implementation and step-time studio construction, but as far as I'm concerned these definitely AREN'T where the strengths of these instruments lie (though the Echoplex, at least, is certainly servicable for studio and sequencing work if it becomes necessary). So while it's true that looping is becoming more and more ubiquitous, I'm not sure that that will immediately translate into more demand for the Echoplex or JamMan, simply because using one of those sorts of instrumnets requires a very different sort of approach than simply loading a two-bar drum loop into and Akai and then looping it for five minutes. (No disrespect towards that sort of approach intended, but I'd dare say that loop music in general leans more towards the latter than the former approach). Any other thoughts? --Andre From ???@??? Tue Feb 04 22:52:54 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 4 13:40:20 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrsbD-000672-00; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 13:40:19 -0800 Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 13:21:10 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: The wish-list of doom In-Reply-To: <9702041555.AA02609@beryllium.lexicon.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"wgEY4C.A.VhF.Rw69y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2018 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 13:40:19 -0800 X-UIDL: bb1813bc3efb4cfca7a7a9cea86cf83e On Tue, 4 Feb 1997, Hogan, Greg wrote: > DO NOT answer this question! Instead please answer: What do you want in a > full featured looper and what would you be willing to pay for it? -- Easily-expandable memory -- Multiple loop availability -- Reverse function -- Undo -- Multiply -- Insert -- Combining two seperate loops into one -- Variable pitch changing of the loop -- Easy and relatively fast download/upload of loops to computer -- Digital output for interface with DAT or ADAT -- True Stereo in/out -- Performance-oriented footpedal which can access just about any parameter -- Continuous feedback control -- Built-in effects loop -- Extensive MIDI implementation, including sync in/out that recognizes odd time signatures (very important!) -- Internal or (more likely) disc-based storage of loops, which can be re-loaded at a later date How much would I be willing to pay for this? The above is basically an Echoplex on steroids; I paid a little over $400 for my EP (admittedly an unheard-of price), plus another $70 or so for the footpedal. Throw in the above additions, and I'd say somewhere around $1,100, but not much higher, would be a reasonable price. (Yes, I feel that the $799 list price of the current Echoplex is unrealistically and prohibitively high). I can't help but think that more of the current crop of EP's could be sold if they were even $100 or so less expensive than they tend to be sold for... --Andre From ???@??? Tue Feb 04 22:53:04 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 4 13:54:37 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrsp1-0007Ab-00; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 13:54:36 -0800 Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 16:53:39 -0500 (EST) From: David Talento X-Sender: legion@omni1 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Where to buy Echoplex pedal?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"v40wlB.A.2WG.2769y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2019 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 13:54:36 -0800 X-UIDL: ae2427ee0b590f5d631a819011004768 Ok I've just about given of on finding and programming a midi pedal to do the trick. Also, the size of the EP pedal box is rather nice IMO. The question is *where* can I buy one at a decent price? I have heard $150, $70, $100 but have no idea what the "right" price should be or who has them in stock. Can anyone suggest a place/price I should look for? thanks for any/all help -------- Help Wanted Productions - Bringing you the best in organic electronic and sweaty rock music since we started. Http://www.voicenet.com/~legion Available next month: "The Feedback Machine" a new studio album from the Music for Isolation Tanks live lineup. Only $6.00 postpaid! From ???@??? Tue Feb 04 22:53:08 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 4 14:07:42 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrt1h-0000Ja-00; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 14:07:41 -0800 Message-Id: <9702042207.AA04639@beryllium.lexicon.com> Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 16:55:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: For Matthias To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V3.50c)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"yYmNaC.A.6E.7J79y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2020 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 14:07:41 -0800 X-UIDL: 3875391c177f282f6520b0930f084839 Sorry to bother the rest of you with this. Matthias, I have Steves reply for you but I misplaced your address, please forward it to me. Best regards, Greg Hogan Lexicon Customer Service Phone 617-280-0372 FAX 617-280-0499 email: ghogan@lexicon.com From ???@??? Mon Feb 03 23:20:43 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 3 14:35:30 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrWz3-0000Cp-00; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 14:35:29 -0800 Sender: soft@nyfac.com Message-ID: <32F7BC02.41C6@nyfac.com> Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 17:45:22 -0500 From: nyfac X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; IRIX 5.3 IP22) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: JamMan upgrades References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tuAqc.A.cNH.hdm9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1991 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 14:35:29 -0800 X-UIDL: e0256c595875379a3b2496b9621f532a Matthew F. McCabe wrote: > > >> I told him about our list and he said for anyone interested in these > >>JamMan tweaks to email him at so he can see how much > >>interest and support is there for these mods and also to keep us posted on > >>their progress You know, there is one tweak I would be very interested in: either playing my loops backwards, or being able to have a backwards sample loop. I figure that there must be a way to do this using a sequencer/drum machine/whatever, but the whole reason I like my JamSter is that I don't have to mess with that. Am I missing something here? Trev From ???@??? Tue Feb 04 22:53:16 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 4 15:05:39 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrtvm-0004WS-00; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 15:05:38 -0800 Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 17:57:32 -0500 From: Michael Peters <100041.247@compuserve.com> Subject: RE: Some ideas... To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Message-ID: <199702041757_MC2-10D2-787C@compuserve.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"oZiBt.A.ztD.w879y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2021 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 15:05:38 -0800 X-UIDL: a1e8f0e1d8855c14721aef0621fb9d78 hi jj, >Ever play the game "Life" on the computer? your ideas are pretty fascinating - but I'd think cellular automata or similar rule based complex systems are things one would realize using a computer rather than a dedicated loop box. Have you checked out Sseyo's Koan software? I think it is based on related ideas (haven't tried it myself) and Brian Eno uses it. Michael Peters default mail address: 100041.247@compuserve.com binary stuff and attachments: mp@scholz.re.eunet.de http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters From ???@??? Tue Feb 04 22:53:18 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 4 15:06:45 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrtwp-0004ca-00; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 15:06:43 -0800 Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 17:57:35 -0500 From: Michael Peters <100041.247@compuserve.com> Subject: RE: The wish-list of doom To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Message-ID: <199702041757_MC2-10D2-787D@compuserve.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"lVbAQD.A.BwD.A979y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2022 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 15:06:43 -0800 X-UIDL: 805c0fec4e809ab6d4089eb03a32cbdb Andre, I really enjoyed the wish-list of doom ... and agree with every point. Maybe we should post this on a web page of its own, for the manufacturers to look up. "What musicians really want". :) One more minor thing : If I need a loop to match a certain time frame (2.26 sec) exactly, I'd like to be able to enter the length value manually, with keys or a dial, instead of tapping it in which is never exact enough. Michael Peters default mail address: 100041.247@compuserve.com binary stuff and attachments: mp@scholz.re.eunet.de http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters From ???@??? Tue Feb 04 22:53:29 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 4 17:16:49 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrvyh-00063S-00; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 17:16:47 -0800 Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 16:56:25 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Where to buy Echoplex pedal?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"YR_1jB.A.tYF.Q699y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2023 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 17:16:47 -0800 X-UIDL: 2b7073d8069c12a5776d0f3f24c26a1a On Tue, 4 Feb 1997, David Talento wrote: > The question is *where* can I buy one at a decent price? I have heard > $150, $70, $100 but have no idea what the "right" price should be or who > has them in stock. $150 is way out of line. The list is about $100; I paid $70-ish for mine (but it was at a pretty amazing sale). The $100 neighborhood is where you should check; I bought mine at Nadine's in LA, which is where I got the $100 list quote from. --Andre From ???@??? Tue Feb 04 22:53:32 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 4 17:45:09 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrwQ8-0000LL-00; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 17:45:08 -0800 Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 18:27:31 -0700 (MST) From: Dan Howarth To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: CD available Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"pzhJcC.A.xiG.aJ-9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2024 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 17:45:08 -0800 X-UIDL: def6dc1c269e0258b4f9251601419a36 hi folks, a friend of mine recently released her first disc, on which i play on two tracks. her name is Ann Hawkins, and she plays acoustic guitar in the michael hedges/leo kottke finger-picking style, and sings in the tori amos/joni mitchell style. call it alternative/folk/rock. :) she's currently playing in the NYC area... i played Stick on two songs (bass-lines, melody chords, and solos) in a trio format (drums). the other 8 songs are either the same trio with me replaced by an upright bassist, duos with percussion, or solos. it's all original material, recorded mostly to analog. anyhow. her contact number is 201 222 7665. this is in Hoboken, NJ. just ask for Annie and a CD (it might not be a bad idea to mention that i told you about this.) thanks. **************************************************************** ** Dan Howarth, History/Music, University of Arizona, Tucson ** ** http://www.u.arizona.edu/~howarth (under construction) ** **************************************************************** From ???@??? Tue Feb 04 22:53:33 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 4 17:50:09 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrwUx-0000iB-00; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 17:50:07 -0800 Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 18:46:09 -0700 (MST) From: Dan Howarth To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: On future looping machines In-Reply-To: <199702041852.KAA23485@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"0ZwSz.A.Kg.Eb-9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2025 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 17:50:07 -0800 X-UIDL: cf772940a8731d45ad6154032f4660b8 On Tue, 4 Feb 1997, Paolo Valladolid wrote: > Hope no one minds the subject change... > > My vote goes to the looping card option as well. While I would like to > see a low-cost, standalone looper to replace the JamMan, it seems like > the card option for the PCM80 or whatever would be the most viable solution > from Lexicon's point of view as well as ours. > i've been thinking about this a lot lately, in frustration with my limited loop setup of one digitech rds4000. i hope to swing a jamman soon, but in regards to the installable expansion card... the loop card on the eventide is amazing. theoretically, that is. i did a lot of browsing on the www today, and drooled especially long on the eventide pages. here's my point: the thing will sample/loop up to an amazing 260+ seconds in mono at 38khz or something. great... but you'd have to buy the GTR4000 model to do this, first of all. does anyone know how much this is? eventide is a bit too modest to project prices. second of all, you'd have to do a helluva a lot of programming (not that i object, i happen to love the stuff, especially in sound) in order to co-ordinate the looping card into the right presets. obviously you'll want to play with all the power of the eventide (or pcm80 or whatever) and, factory-shipped, the looping unit wouldn't be tied into the signal path in probably all but five or six presets out of 800. so, you'd have to run it in - to EVERY preset you would ever possibly think of using to create loops. now, for me - that's all of the presets. :) --------------- what we need is a huge, incredibly awesome processing package (the eventides and pcm80s of the world) with a dedicated feature for looping. just a front panel button which immediately plugs the looping expansion card into the signal path... or even a comprehensive footpedal which -among other things- kicks in the loops. maybe this has been covered before... sorry if it has. i'm late to this discussion. **************************************************************** ** Dan Howarth, History/Music, University of Arizona, Tucson ** ** http://www.u.arizona.edu/~howarth (under construction) ** **************************************************************** From ???@??? Tue Feb 04 22:53:36 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 4 18:11:57 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrwq4-00027t-00; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 18:11:56 -0800 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 21:15:56 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Jamman mods Resent-Message-ID: <"TYhTJB.A.71B.2v-9y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2026 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 18:11:56 -0800 X-UIDL: 83ee1b7d0a76a2aa536abaec48fb8eb3 I am interested in anyone working on Jamman mods ... what is the status of this From ???@??? Tue Feb 04 22:53:40 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 4 19:44:36 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vryHi-0007WX-00; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 19:44:34 -0800 Message-ID: <32F80143.3CF6@easyway.net> Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 22:40:51 -0500 From: Jonathan Brainin X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: On future looping machines References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"FRrh2D.A.j3G.1FA-y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2027 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 19:44:34 -0800 X-UIDL: 7851d5f8fec89c4f9614934a31716b7d Dan Howarth wrote: Before you read this check my profile on the looper's page...you may want to kill me before you read this! > i've been thinking about this a lot lately, in frustration with my limited > loop setup of one digitech rds4000. i hope to swing a jamman soon, but > in regards to the installable expansion card... > > the loop card on the eventide is amazing. theoretically, that is. > i did a lot of browsing on the www today, and drooled especially long on > the eventide pages. > here's my point: the thing will sample/loop up to an amazing 260+ > seconds in mono at 38khz or something. great... Actually it's something like 92 seconds for a stereo loop at 48 khz, I think. > but you'd have to buy the GTR4000 model to do this, first of all. does > anyone know how much this is? eventide is a bit too modest to project > prices. Well, uh, mine cost me $2800 as a demo from ABC Music in Scottsdale, Az. even though I think that $3000 is their normal price for a GTR4000. > second of all, you'd have to do a helluva a lot of programming (not that i > object, i happen to love the stuff, especially in sound) in order to > co-ordinate the looping card into the right presets. Actually, I have a good friend who works for Eventide as a programmer who happens to be a stick player with a major affinity for looping. He's already got a bank full of looping presets (17 of them) as well as more presets that come with the sampling board. He's always working on new presets, so I'd expect to see more looping presets in the future. > obviously you'll want to play with all the power of the eventide (or pcm80 > or whatever) and, factory-shipped, the looping unit wouldn't be tied into > the signal path in probably all but five or six presets out of 800. so, > you'd have to run it in - to EVERY preset you would ever possibly think of > using to create loops. now, for me - that's all of the presets. :) To be honest, I doubt you'd wind up using more than 20 presets. I don't think I do! Lemme know if you want more info. Later, Jonathan Brainin From ???@??? Tue Feb 04 22:53:45 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 4 22:45:32 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vs16o-0002gq-00; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 22:45:30 -0800 Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 01:42:12 -0500 (EST) From: Dpcoffin@aol.com Message-ID: <970205014210_2059379136@emout11.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: On future looping machines Resent-Message-ID: <"suvtOD.A.1XC.KwC-y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2028 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 22:45:30 -0800 X-UIDL: 24153c9009d078c47e4c3c9f2fa92f4a In a message dated 2/5/97 3:44:36 AM, Jonathan Brainin wrote:, re: the GTR4000: <> Well, sure! Fill us in on how good it can be! I understand, fr'instance, that out of the box you only get 5 sec stereo delay/sampling...and the longer sampling option really is about $2000! Thanks! dp From ???@??? Wed Feb 05 00:00:39 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 4 23:13:36 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vs1Xy-0004Dq-00; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 23:13:34 -0800 Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 02:09:35 -0500 (EST) From: Dpcoffin@aol.com Message-ID: <970205011014_1014689437@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Some ideas... Resent-Message-ID: <"87pGEC.A.oyD.7JD-y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2029 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 23:13:34 -0800 X-UIDL: d92738dcb0094ee954046c6e12c66195 In a message dated 2/4/97 7:59:37 PM, jj wrote, re algorithmic loop mutation: <> Sounds like a job for Max, Opcode/IRcam's MIDI programming environment, which can apparently detect and/or analyse audio via an Audiomedia card, I understand...or rather I DON'T understand, but betcha one of the folks on the lofty max list could set up something like what you describe...there's also SuperCollider, an amazing real-time synth and audio processor for the Power Mac (whose downloadable demo is a free sonic trip NO audio-minded PowerPC owner should overlook!). And of course, who knows what couldn't be done with cSound, a Kyma box, or even an Eventide DSP4000, were money and audio engineering expertise no object... dp From ???@??? Wed Feb 05 00:33:59 1997 >From kflint Wed Feb 5 00:03:48 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vs2KZ-0006ZV-00; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 00:03:47 -0800 Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 01:12:46 -0600 From: John Pollock Subject: Re: repopulate the species To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-to: johnpollock@delphi.com Message-id: <32F832ED.2ED6@delphi.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <970203131953_74074.1316_GHQ31-5@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"fGFDSD.A.q_F.a4D-y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2030 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 00:03:47 -0800 X-UIDL: 79d522c6fdb061020a6e1258afe9cd2f Jon Durant wrote: > Anyway, Sarajane: not all loopers leave the tending of their children to the > more capable gender--some of us actually enjoy the time we get to spend with our > young offspring. Even if it means less loopage. I'm Unemployed/Househusband/Fulltime Father to our 20-month old son. In my case, this means not only less loopage, but also: --Money's tight; acquisition of a JM/Plex/anything that loops longer than the Vortex will have to wait. So will acquisition of the entire Alchemy catalogue. --I don't have the time to put together the coherent answers to questions raised by Mathias (on the list) and Erik Simpson (in private email), nor comment on the aspects of Starting Over raised by Paolo, Travis and others. (I will, eventually, I swear!) But he's worth it! :-) He may/may not be a looper, or even a guitarist (though my older offspring, who each have their own children, include guitar on _their_ lists of things they don't have time for), but he's already a music junkie. Among his faves: BB King, Timbuk 3, Leni Stern... John Pollock mailto:johnpollock@delphi.com http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock (Troubador Tech) From ???@??? Wed Feb 05 00:34:00 1997 >From kflint Wed Feb 5 00:20:14 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vs2aT-0007Jk-00; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 00:20:13 -0800 Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 03:17:51 -0500 (EST) From: Dpcoffin@aol.com Message-ID: <970205013333_2025824695@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: On future looping machines Resent-Message-ID: <"C3OxCD.A.lyG.vJE-y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2031 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 00:20:13 -0800 X-UIDL: 1aad7234cd793bb8b41b1cfb108bb5a1 In a message dated 2/5/97 2:06:58 AM, Dan wrote: <<...GTR4000 model to do this, first of all. does anyone know how much this is?>> List, without sampling card: $4000 Sampling card: $2000 (may require digital I/O; add $1000) ...sorry! dp From ???@??? Wed Feb 05 09:28:38 1997 >From kflint Wed Feb 5 00:39:35 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vs2tB-0000KA-00; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 00:39:33 -0800 Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 02:39:12 -0600 From: John Pollock Subject: Re: Music just for musicians? To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-to: johnpollock@delphi.com Message-id: <32F841FB.10DF@delphi.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <9702031700.AA28277@beryllium.lexicon.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"WvXxsD.A.RM.RbE-y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2032 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 00:39:33 -0800 X-UIDL: 1d11dfb86894de93873defd50fde0c5c Greg Hogan wrote: > > Well I tried to make a simple blanket statement about a very complex > situation and it seems that I opened a big can of worms. Has Lexicon made > mistakes? Yes, of course. We did try to create interest in the JAMMAN and > Vortex. These products did not sell at 1/3 of the rate as the ALEX or > REFLEX. Yes there were forecasting problems. Does Lexicon owe it to the > community to keep products in the product line? I don't think so. Is > Lexicon run by musicians? I wish. Is a discussion of corporate politics > really very relevant to this list? I don't believe so but I suppose it is > debatable. > > I do not get it. Which would be worse? The fact that we stopped shipping > these products or if they were never made? > > I was warned when I arrived at this list that John Durant was almost > railroaded off of this list. Well his interest in the art of looping has > kept him here. I am not running away as I am used to taking the punishment > for the actions of others(it has been my job for a long time.) But lets not > waste time with this issue. Greg, I've been reading this list since October, and have been delighted with the window it has afforded me into the realities of designing, manufacturing and marketing such entities as the Vortex, JamHermano, and Echoplex. While Jon may have felt some warmth regarding (mis)representations of the JamOne as a stereo looper, my recollection is that this was quickly cleared up by the original poster's acknowledgement that this was a retailer's doing, not Lexicon's. I myself did some venting about one of Lexicon's sister Harman International companies-- but so has Jon. ;-) But "almost railroaded off of this list"? I don't think so, and I certainly hope not! > It would be more constructive(and interesting) > to discuss what everybody would like to see in the next generation of > dedicated(or not) looping technology. Maybe if we are all good on the > karmic scale Lexicon or Oberheim(or Roland or Alesis) might answer our > prayers. While I speak only for myself, my take on the second-guessing of Lexicon's marketing efforts is that its intent is constructive: We appreciate the devices, we're disappointed that their sales don't justify their continuation, and we'd like to help identify the problems in order to help insure the success of the next device to enter this market niche. I don't know of anyone eager to return to the days of twin reel-to-reels. I agree that it would be more interesting to discuss the technical specs of the next-generation looper. But what good will that achieve, if it can't be marketed? For me, this thread represents a probably necessary, if not always pleasant-tasting, dose of reality. I don't think I've said so before, but I'm very glad you're reading and contributing to this list. John Pollock mailto:johnpollock@delphi.com http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock (Troubador Tech) From ???@??? Wed Feb 05 09:28:56 1997 >From kflint Wed Feb 5 06:53:43 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vs8jG-0003vE-00; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 06:53:42 -0800 Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 09:50:49 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: JamMan upgrades Resent-Message-ID: <"8Nkq8C.A.2kD.v5J-y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2033 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 06:53:42 -0800 X-UIDL: c7196f9882c88004d9f49692b0e0d773 I have also emailed him requesting Jamman mods Paul At 11:31 PM 2/3/97, Ed Drake wrote: >Ed said: > >>>> I told him about our list and he said for anyone interested in these >>>>JamMan tweaks to email him at so he can see how much >>>>interest and support is there for these mods and also to keep us posted on >>>>their progress >>> >>>I have not heard from Bob since so I don't know anything new, but if you >>>haven't emailed him yet please do so. >>>I also gave Bob our email address and told him to post directly to the list >>>if there is any news. >>> >>> Later Ed > >Matt said: > >>Right after you originally posted this message I fired off an email to Bob. >>Haven't heard anything. I suspect he's a busy man. Maybe we should pool >>a list of questions and send them in one email so as not to overwhelm the >>man. Just a thought.... >> >>Matt >> >>P.S. Uhh...I guess I just volunteered myself for the task! :-) > >Matt > >When I talked to Bob for 5 minutes or so that day, I got the impression he >was very busy. He said it was funny that I had called about the Upgrade >because he had just fired off a new eprom to try out for the upgrade the >night before. >One other thing he said that I had forgotten in my original post, was about >the stereo loops and how you could pan them too! I got the impression this >whole upgrade thing might still be a little while, because licensing the >software from Lex had to be worked out. If you do email him, ask him what >time frame for the upgrade and what new things are being implemented. > >Trev said: > >>You know, there is one tweak I would be very interested in: either >>playing my loops backwards, or being able to have a backwards sample >>loop. >> >>I figure that there must be a way to do this using a sequencer/drum >>machine/whatever, but the whole reason I like my JamSter is that I don't >>have to mess with that. >> >>Am I missing something here? >> >>Trev > >Trev, I want to make sure I understand you. Do you mean have the backwards >sample loop around with out having to trigger it via footswitch ? I'm not >sure. You can't play loops backwards, you can only play backwards in the >sample mode (one pass sample which means no layering, etc.) Also I'm not >sure but I think the MIDI clock, which runs sequencers and drum machines, >doesn't work in the sample Mode only in either of the Loop Modes. > > Ed From ???@??? Tue Feb 04 10:34:24 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 4 07:59:07 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vrnH1-00058K-00; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 07:59:07 -0800 Sender: soft@nyfac.com Message-ID: <32F8B044.167E@nyfac.com> Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 11:07:32 -0500 From: nyfac X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; IRIX 5.3 IP22) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: JamMan upgrades References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"yzsddC.A.heE.Ju19y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2009 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 07:59:07 -0800 X-UIDL: 6313ada13929ae9587123aa4a91728a4 Ed Drake wrote: > Trev, I want to make sure I understand you. Do you mean have the backwards > sample loop around with out having to trigger it via footswitch ? I'm not > sure. You can't play loops backwards, you can only play backwards in the > sample mode (one pass sample which means no layering, etc.) Also I'm not > sure but I think the MIDI clock, which runs sequencers and drum machines, > doesn't work in the sample Mode only in either of the Loop Modes. Ed (et. al.) What I would like to do is this- 1) just be able to play the loops I write backwards. That would be ideal. alternately, 2) be able to have the JamDude loop the sample when in sample mode, e.g. hold the trigger button down to have the loop start over automatically. I was suprised that the JamMan didn't do 1). When I looked at the comparason of the page, I (mistakenly) thought that it would reverse the samples. Sigh.... Trev From ???@??? Wed Feb 05 09:51:09 1997 >From kflint Wed Feb 5 09:48:24 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vsBSH-0006Yv-00; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 09:48:21 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 09:40:36 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Where to buy Echoplex pedal?? Resent-Message-ID: <"TFzh0C.A.pxF.GbM-y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2035 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 09:48:21 -0800 X-UIDL: 66042d1ba9fb20ca5cd498ec12b822b0 >Ok I've just about given of on finding and programming a midi pedal to do >the trick. Also, the size of the EP pedal box is rather nice IMO. > >The question is *where* can I buy one at a decent price? I have heard >$150, $70, $100 but have no idea what the "right" price should be or who >has them in stock. > >Can anyone suggest a place/price I should look for? > Try Bananas at Large. (sorry, I don't remember the phone#, they're on the web) They seem to have Echoplex stuff in stock much more often than anywhere else, and from what I hear, have been buying them from other dealers of late to fill their own orders. Banana's sales success with these has everything to do with a sales manager that is an echoplex fanatic and can therefore demo it successfully.... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Wed Feb 05 09:51:10 1997 >From kflint Wed Feb 5 09:48:51 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vsBSj-0006bQ-00; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 09:48:49 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 09:42:15 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Where to buy Echoplex pedal?? Resent-Message-ID: <"lcFQ_D.A.f6F.pcM-y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2036 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 09:48:49 -0800 X-UIDL: 2055967d09938e9926ca0bfac99f02b3 >Ok I've just about given of on finding and programming a midi pedal to do >the trick. Also, the size of the EP pedal box is rather nice IMO. > >The question is *where* can I buy one at a decent price? I have heard >$150, $70, $100 but have no idea what the "right" price should be or who >has them in stock. > >Can anyone suggest a place/price I should look for? > >thanks for any/all help oh yeah, Oberheim currently has production runs happening, so the echoplex should be generally easier to find soon. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Wed Feb 05 21:36:22 1997 >From kflint Wed Feb 5 12:07:48 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vsDdB-0001O5-00; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 12:07:45 -0800 Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 15:04:21 -0400 From: "Robert S. Carter" Subject: Tapping tempo --> MIDI Clock To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Reply-to: rsc4@hmivax.humgen.upenn.edu Message-id: <32F8D9B4.6BF1@hmivax.humgen.upenn.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Uvzrr.A.VFB.mfO-y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2037 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 12:07:45 -0800 X-UIDL: 9f651619d6364689018fdcaff0d70a4c Hi, I'm new on the list. In terms of looping I use a Vortex for spacy synth stuff, wierd noises, sweeps, etc. For this purpose I have found that morphing into a loop with a CV pedal works better than an abrupt switch between patches via the A/B switch. The result is a real smooth crossfade into or out of a loop. I can describe this in more detail if anyone is interested. Can any other looping device do this type of trick? And now a really important question which I've posted to several newsgroups with no good answers. I desperately need a pedal switch or button type device with which to tap tempo and send a master MIDI clock. Like the vortex tap tempo, but of course the vortex is not MIDI. Basically I want to be able to set up synth arpeggiations and LFO stuff synched to my drummer (rather than him synching to me- that ain't gonna happen). This is not a set it and leave it operation, rather I want to be able to change tempos on the fly during and between songs. The one device that I have used that will do it is an oberheim cyclone, but I'll spare you the reasons why I don't want to use the cyclone (great box, no reliability). I've been told a PCM80 will do it but that's a lot of money. I know the JamMan and Echoplex send MIDI clock based upon tapped loop lenghths. However from what little I know of the jamMAn , it's not such a straightforward operation- you can't just tap and change tempos in loop mode and for some reason the unit does not send clock in echo mode (but maybe I'm wrong here). Can anyone explain whether the the JamMan or Echoplex or maybe any other device might fit my needs? BOB. From ???@??? Wed Feb 05 09:28:59 1997 >From kflint Wed Feb 5 08:00:03 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vs9lS-0006dI-00; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 08:00:02 -0800 Message-Id: <199702051557.AA251238248@hermes.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de> To: "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: looping device recommendation Date: Wed, 05 Feb 97 16:59:07 -0500 From: Markus X-Mailer: E-Mail Connection v2.5.03 Resent-Message-ID: <"RKfuUC.A.VAG.U2K-y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2034 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 08:00:02 -0800 X-UIDL: b516af522850096e81e0234ab4af4bfc -- [ From: Markus * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- Hi fellows! I've been using the Alesis Quadraverb 2 as a looping device and effects processor in the past years. It's the most incredible unit I've worked with so far. It's open architecture (virtual patch cords between up to 8 effect blocks)lets one set up a 4,7 seconds delay + several other effects which can also be 'morphed'. It's also perfectly suited for feedback effects of any kind. It's a great device for looping-starters and once one's decided to buy a 'real' looper, it fits nicely into any set-up. Are there any Q2 users out there? Cheers! -- Markus Reuter ========================TSG-8-Warr Guitar==== Ellerstr. 36, 33615 Bielefeld, Germany,Tel. 0521/138356==== email: mreuter@post.uni-bielefeld.de ====================== http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters/markus.htm =========================================================== From ???@??? Wed Feb 05 21:36:27 1997 >From kflint Wed Feb 5 14:24:15 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vsFlD-0002pI-00; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 14:24:11 -0800 Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 14:22:52 -0800 Message-Id: <199702052222.OAA15968@dsp.net> X-Sender: tritone@dsp.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.1.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: James Reynolds Subject: Re: Where to buy Echoplex pedal?? Resent-Message-ID: <"iLLz-D.A.RSC.SeQ-y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2038 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 14:24:11 -0800 X-UIDL: e77f4f308238e9c2fdecd339544c1714 >Try Bananas at Large. (sorry, I don't remember the phone#, they're on the >web) They seem to have Echoplex stuff in stock much more often than >anywhere else, and from what I hear, have been buying them from other >dealers of late to fill their own orders. Banana's sales success with these >has everything to do with a sales manager that is an echoplex fanatic and >can therefore demo it successfully.... > Bananas at Large 1504 Fourth Street San Rafael, CA 94901 Phone (415)457-7600 Fax (415)457-9148 bananas@bananas.com www.bananas.com From ???@??? Wed Feb 05 21:36:35 1997 >From kflint Wed Feb 5 17:15:17 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vsIQl-0007Am-00; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 17:15:15 -0800 Date: 05 Feb 97 20:02:06 EST From: Teed Rockwell <74164.3703@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" , Stickwire Subject: Teed at AACM Message-ID: <970206010206_74164.3703_GHQ91-2@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"26YAh.A.wZG.c-S-y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2039 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 17:15:15 -0800 X-UIDL: f03dfab6ff357eedc847af1bb3f21404 Even though I've been off this list for a while, I'm hoping that some of you in the Bay Area might be interested in my concert at the Ali Akbar College of Music, Saturday, February 8th at 7:30 P.M. The college is at 215 West End Ave in San Rafael, and is basically right off the Freeway (101) at the Central San Rafael exit. Call 415 454-6264 for more info. TIckets are $10, $7 for students and seniors. I will be playing first, for about 30-40 minutes followed by a vocalist and then a Sitarist. All of the musicians are long time students of Ali Akbar, and are well worth hearing. I will be playing Raga Patdeep with a tabla player, but I'm throwing in a few curve balls I haven't even told the College about. Most importantly, I will be using my Oberheim Digital Echoplex, which will enable me to create rich contrapuntal textures in what is traditionaly a monophonic muscial form. I've been working on it for some time, and I think I've created something really special with it. Hope you can be there Teed From ???@??? Thu Feb 06 00:37:38 1997 >From kflint Wed Feb 5 23:22:51 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vsMQG-0007NG-00; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 21:31:00 -0800 Message-ID: <32F95EFD.3EF6@bgsuvax.bgsu.edu> Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 00:33:01 -0400 From: Jeff Schwartz X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Teed at AACM References: <970206010206_74164.3703_GHQ91-2@CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"PyQ2WC.A.CjG.LuW-y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2040 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 21:31:00 -0800 X-UIDL: 773a4b270c6c192fcc2f727d7f37fd8a Good luck at the gig. I was anxious from the subject line that you had a beef with the Association for the Advancement of Creative Musicians! -- Jeff Schwartz jeffs@bgnet.bgsu.edu http://www.bgsu.edu/~jeffs/main.html From ???@??? Wed Feb 05 21:36:48 1997 >From kflint Wed Feb 5 21:34:41 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vsMTo-0007de-00; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 21:34:40 -0800 From: "Bailey, Jim" To: looppost Subject: A Jamthing, Vortex, and 'plex free post! Date:Thu, 6 Feb 1997 00:28:00 -0500 Message-ID: <32F96B51@pcsmtp.cmail.southam.ca> Encoding: 35 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"3IAoWC.A.nnG.CvW-y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2041 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 21:34:40 -0800 X-UIDL: c93534fdcbd0d222289ed6348a69890f De-lurking at last. Greetings to all. First a bit of humour: Kem McNair wrote: P.s. I'll contact ray peck about the killer loops for the cd Yeah, I saw these in an opticians recently, made by Bausch & Lomb. What are they? ;-] ;-] (No, seriously, I did see them. They are in a small black box with a label on the side that says "KILLER LOOP". I don't wear glasses, and the shop is always closed - I'm coming home at 02:00 after doing a radio show, so I have no idea. Does anybody know what these are? Maybe I could find out if not.) Now on to serious stuff. I have been "looping" for nigh on twenty years now, on and off, using the old two open-reel method (ala Frippertronics except I use Tandbergs and do not have the luxury of speed control, but it still works most times). Input sounds are anything that will make a noise, although electronics are best because they don't require mic's. Anyone else out there still in the stone age?:-) I noticed on the web page that there is a list of loopers and info about them, but can't see any way of contributing to it. Is there a special requirement, or am I just missing something? I have an album (vinyl), put out just over ten years ago which contains two tape-delay pieces - one using Mini-Moog, the other with electric guitar. Do people on the list use it to trade product? This would seem to be an obvious application, and is something I am attempting to set up for Elephant Talk, the King Crimson etc. website and forum. So please enlighten me! HAPPY LOOPING! happy looping! happy ........... Jim Bailey From ???@??? Thu Feb 06 00:37:37 1997 >From kflint Wed Feb 5 22:55:46 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vsNkH-0004cL-00; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 22:55:45 -0800 Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 22:35:15 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: A Jamthing, Vortex, and 'plex free post! In-Reply-To: <32F96B51@pcsmtp.cmail.southam.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"oxuxJB.A.ZJE.1-X-y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2042 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 22:55:45 -0800 X-UIDL: 9e946f0eae6a5569875782a03ed45e69 On Thu, 6 Feb 1997, Bailey, Jim wrote: > I noticed on the web page that there is a list of loopers and info about > them, but can't see any way of contributing to it. Is there a special > requirement, or am I just missing something? Your suspicions are correct -- you are ineligible from contributing to the list of loopers, as your archaic reel-to-reel methodology represents an inability to go BEYOND FRIPP!!! Just kidding, of course! If you want to contribute something to the Web, the best thing to do is send it to Michael Peters <100041.247@compuserve.com>, the resident HTML man for the list/web site. --Andre From ???@??? Thu Feb 06 08:27:55 1997 >From kflint Thu Feb 6 01:05:19 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vsPle-0002Ff-00; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 01:05:18 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 00:59:43 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, rsc4@hmivax.humgen.upenn.edu From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Tapping tempo --> MIDI Clock Resent-Message-ID: <"TH0sVC.A.p-B.v4Z-y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2043 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 01:05:18 -0800 X-UIDL: 6e7f43d3e517ef5cbbba996cbe98e874 Bob: > >And now a really important question which I've posted to several >newsgroups with no good answers. I desperately need a pedal switch or >button type device with which to tap tempo and send a master MIDI >clock. ..... >This is not a set it and leave it operation, rather I want to >be able to change tempos on the fly during and between songs. You can do this with an echoplex quite easily. You can also have it send clock with different meters in relation to your taps. (ie your taps equal 2 beats, or four, or seven, or whatever) You can do a lot of other things with an echoplex that are probably a bit more exciting.... I think some roland stuff for dance music also does this. The MC-303 and the DJ70-MKII maybe. They're not footpedals, though, but both are interesting products in their own right. There must be others. >The one >device that I have used that will do it is an oberheim cyclone, but I'll >spare you the reasons why I don't want to use the cyclone (great box, no >reliability). wow, a cyclone user! When I was at Gibson no one really knew what this thing did, but people were still buying it every now and then. I remember being at trade shows and meeting fanatical cyclone users. You thought looping was a niche..... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Feb 06 08:28:01 1997 >From kflint Thu Feb 6 07:28:26 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vsVkP-0006pR-00; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 07:28:25 -0800 Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 10:29:21 -0500 From: cwb@platinum.com (Clark) Message-Id: <199702061529.KAA08192@octopus.ab.platinum.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Bananas Echoplex Page X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"UKxeu.A.rHG.Kdf-y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2044 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 07:28:25 -0800 X-UIDL: 0f17e833df19d7b37b79d66088957c75 The Bananas at Large page says that the Echoplex "saves/loads Loops and sound files". I wasnt aware that it was able to save loops at all. Is this an error on their page or is it correct? Clark BTW, their toll free number is 800 786 7585 From ???@??? Thu Feb 06 08:28:02 1997 >From kflint Thu Feb 6 08:00:13 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vsWFA-0000kU-00; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 08:00:12 -0800 Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 11:00:30 -0500 (EST) From: David Talento X-Sender: legion@omni1 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Bananas Echoplex Page In-Reply-To: <199702061529.KAA08192@octopus.ab.platinum.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"x2ebP.A.kb.58f-y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2045 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 08:00:12 -0800 X-UIDL: 8b40d66ecedef2f2a57bcfacfaafe6bc On Thu, 6 Feb 1997, Clark wrote: > The Bananas at Large page says that the Echoplex "saves/loads Loops > and sound files". I wasnt aware that it was able to save loops at all. > Is this an error on their page or is it correct? Well it's kinda misleading IMO. You can "save" loops by going through the finicky midi sample dump features. I for one have never gotten this to work but I'm told it does. Usually when I hear people talking about "saving" something they are refering to static RAM where you turn off the unit and it stays in memory until you intentionally erase it. The EP does *not* do that, once you turn it off it loses all memory and boots clean the next time you turn it on. > BTW, their toll free number is 800 786 7585 FWIW I called them yesterday and they said they are backordered on the pedals just liek everyone else. They did say they're at teh top of the list when they do come in but it will probably be a couple weeks at best. The do have the Echoplex unit in stock though. Didn't get a price on that (they wanted $110 for the pedal alone). -------- Help Wanted Productions - Bringing you the best in organic electronic and sweaty rock music since we started. Http://www.voicenet.com/~legion Available next month: "The Feedback Machine" a new studio album from the Music for Isolation Tanks live lineup. Only $6.00 postpaid! From ???@??? Thu Feb 06 08:55:16 1997 >From kflint Thu Feb 6 08:52:31 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vsX3l-0003ye-00; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 08:52:29 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970206162429.00d91f48@mail.ndirect.co.uk> X-Sender: fish@mail.ndirect.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 16:48:02 +0000 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Fish Subject: Re: Another new member Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"yYuBgD.A.bZD.7sg-y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2046 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 08:52:29 -0800 X-UIDL: 136d0876dfcd9c7fe81fbf0d84fab605 Someone asked about looping with a sampler. Here's a repost of my tips for setting up a feedback loop on the S2000/S3000 series with the EB16 internal FX board. From: "Fish" Subject: [Akai] Re: Remix tip for Akai users To continue with this excellant thread of creative tips, I thought I'd share with you my experiments with feedback loops using the EB16 effects expansion board for the Akai S2000 and it's bigger brothers. I originally discovered this technique while playing about with a friend's Roland tape delay and a wah-wah pedal but it's quite easy to reproduce with the EB16. The basic theory is to take a sound, put it through a slowly sweeping band pass filter, delay the signal, and then feed it back to the start where it gets filtered, delayed and fed back again. Now, you're probably thinking this is a bad idea and will result in the nasty howl around feedback which we're all familiar with having plugged an output into it's own input after one spliff too many in the studio. But it's the sweeping band pass filter that's the key here. As the filter only lets through a certain range of frequencies and eliminates the others, by the time the delayed signal is fed back to the input the filter will have shifted frequency sufficiently to prevent the signal building up into that nasty howl. Depending on the original sound and by adjusting various parameters you can achieve a number of weird and wonderful effects. Play a big chord using nice thick pad and pass it through the feedback loop and you get a beautiful evolving swirl of sound as the various harmonics are picked out and emphasized. Take a techno stab, played in time with the delay and your riff takes on a life of it's own. Or a few Rhodes chords add a really spacey dimension to a dub track. White noise textures also work well with the feedback loop adding a lot of movement to the sound. And of course with an electric guitar, which is what I first made the effect for, your average solo will take right off into space! But I'm sure you'd rather create the effect yourself than listen to me try and describe it. A word of warning is appropriate here. Because you're feeding the Akai's ouput back to it's input, there's a risk that the signal levels could get enormously high. The best sound is right on the limit before it tips over into a howling shriek, so you need to be very precise with the parameters. But, like many great sounds, this comes from experimental use/abuse of the equipment (the Roland Bassline and the wickedly detailed breaks of drum'n'bass spring to mind). The Akai is a sturdy bit of kit and can probably take it in short doses, but you're ears aren't--so please, BE CAREFUL! Obviously I can't accept any liability for to damage of your equipment or hearing! :) Got that? Ok, here's how you set it up: I can only describe how to do this on the S2000, but I expect if you own the S3000xl you'll be able to work out how to acheive the same effect. Also, if you have multiple outputs you can be more flexible with what you plug into what. 1.Sample or load an initial program. Good sounds to work with are thick pads or textures with a lot of harmonic content covering a wide range of the frequency spectrum or buzzy analogue leads with an open filter. 2.Go into single>edit and find the page OUT L/R and check that the level parameter is up at maximum and the pan at centre. 3.Page down one step to the Out Fxbus page and set the FXbus to FX1 with a send level around 75. 4.Make sure that no FX override is set for any of the keygroups or they'll loose the effect. 5.Provided you're happy with the source sound, now choose the Effects button. Pick any free Fx slot to use and hit the Edit button to get into the parameters for FX1. 6.Page down until you get to the Ringmod/Distort page and set it to Bypass. 7.Page down again and set the Equalise to Active. 8.To cut out the outer frequencies you need to eliminate the high & low eqs . Page down to the EQ Low page. Set the frequency to around 100hz and spin the dB right down to -oo to cut out the bass frequencies. Do the same with the EQ High page (a couple pages down) and set the frequency to about 10kHz and the dB all the way down. 9.It's the band pass filters which you're interested in. Set the frequency to around 800hz, the boost to about +8dB and the width around 10 (you can come back and change this later to suit the sound and how pronounced you want the sweep effect to be). Set the second band pass up in a similar way to the first. 10.Page down a couple of times and you'll find the BPMOD pages. Set the sweep rate to sloooow; it's best at around 0.1 or 0.2Hz. Try a depth of around 30. If you're using the second band pass filter, set it up in a similar way with the same rate. 11.You can either bypass the Mod section or add a little chorus to the effect. 12.Set the echo mode to Mono L+R and set the delay time to somewhere between 200-500ms or set it in time with the tempo of your track with each delay equal to an 8th note. 13.Ignore the Damp parameter and set the Fbk to 0 (remember we're going to physically feed back the Akai's output to an input - but NOT YET!!). 14.On the next page, leave the offset to 00 and set the Output to ***POSTdel***. This parameter is particularly important for the effect to be anything other than nasty howl around. 15.You can ignore the reverb parameters for the time being as we'll bypass this later. 16.On the Dist/EQ page, turn the Level right down to ***00***. This is another potentially speaker saving parameter which should not be ignored. 17.On the MOD/ECHO page, turn the Level right up to 99 and leave it MID panned. 18.Then on the REV, turn the level all the way down to ***00***. 19.Leave the Path control at the default 00 and Program Signal to Stereo should be set to ON. 20.Finally hit the Effects button and page all the way down to Left ADC input and set it To:FX1 with Thru: set to ***00***. Okay, provided you've followed these instructions carefully, it's time to give it a try! Turn the REC GAIN level to 12 o'clock and the main volume ALL THE WAY DOWN. Now take a patch cable and connect either the L or R of the Akai's stereo output and plug the other end into the L/MONO input on the front panel. Now SLOWLY turn up the main volume. If you immediately hear a howl before playing any notes, go back and check all the parameters above- particularly the ones highlighted with astrixes. If all is going well, play a few notes and you should hear the effect of the sound being delayed and fed back through the EQ filters. Slowly increase the volume, if it grows into a howl, just turn down the volume so it doesn't feedback on the next delay. It will take some practise to get the levels just right, but you should be able to find a level where the sound sustains without rising into a howl around but doesn't decay too quickly. Then go back and fine tune EQ section. The parameters to play with are the depth of the Modulation and the frequency, boost and width of the filters. More meaty sweeping effects can be achieved by increasing the width of the bank pass filters, while decreasing the width will give a smaller chirpy sound. Just remember to keep a hand on the Main Volume control in case the levels get to high. Or if you're studio is equipped with a limiter, patch it into the loop. Truely psychedelic effects can be created by gating the source sound by applying an LFO to the amplitude, running in time with the delay, which will creates cascades of frequencies. Finally, add kick drum and record to DAT. Wait for your record to go platinum, and send me a cheque for the inspiration :-) Best of luck! PS. A useful addition to the chain is to have control over the amount of signal being fed back to the input. I use an analogue volume pedal between the Akai output and it's input, but it would certainly be nice to have MIDI control over this. If anyone finds a way please let me know! Fish fish@ndirect.co.uk http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~fish From ???@??? Thu Feb 06 09:03:26 1997 >From kflint Thu Feb 6 08:59:09 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vsXAB-0004Wj-00; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 08:59:07 -0800 Message-Id: <11924.199702061653@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 16:53:42 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Vortex fer sale @ GC- $129.99!!!! Resent-Message-ID: <"Ur6NZD.A.U1D.Iyg-y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2047 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 08:59:07 -0800 X-UIDL: 605db511aff010533c12b1fac6059be1 Much as this _REALLY_ cuts me up, there's a Vortex going for $129-99 in CG Hollywood that a last-minute bill from the gasman has prevented my from buying. Let my misfortune be your good fortune - go get! The person to ask for is Bo Boyd. It's been opened, but just do what I was planning, get 'em to send it direct to Lex for a checkover (OK Greg? :) ). Damn. Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb From ???@??? Thu Feb 06 09:03:28 1997 >From kflint Thu Feb 6 09:01:28 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vsXCR-0004ie-00; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 09:01:27 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 08:55:00 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Bananas Echoplex Page Resent-Message-ID: <"1vyMPD.A.2IE.Y2g-y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2048 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 09:01:27 -0800 X-UIDL: 44eb3410c909a6dc99a21d7922882148 David Talento wrote: >On Thu, 6 Feb 1997, Clark wrote: > >> The Bananas at Large page says that the Echoplex "saves/loads Loops >> and sound files". I wasnt aware that it was able to save loops at all. >> Is this an error on their page or is it correct? > >Well it's kinda misleading IMO. You can "save" loops by going through the >finicky midi sample dump features. I for one have never gotten this to >work but I'm told it does. What are you trying to save it to? Some companies implemented sample dump in strange ways. (the k2000, for instance, added some new parameters that you have to supply or it don't work) Maybe we can find a workaround for you or at least make sure your sampler is supported when that part of the software is updated. >Usually when I hear people talking about "saving" something they are >refering to static RAM where you turn off the unit and it stays in >memory until you intentionally erase it. The EP does *not* do that, once >you turn it off it loses all memory and boots clean the next time you >turn it on. The quantity of memory we are talking about makes this sort of storage method very expensive. Especially 3-4 years ago when the echoplex was being designed. If we had added such a feature at the time, nobody could have afforded it. Now, flash memory is finally getting cheaper, but then people want more memory. So the problem doesn't go away. SCSI would be the best, but it's still not very cheap in low volumes, and you would still have to buy a disk. (and we would have to design some kind of file structure and disk os, and figure out how to control it from the interface, which would take a while) So the question is, how much is something like that worth to you? >> BTW, their toll free number is 800 786 7585 > >FWIW I called them yesterday and they said they are backordered on the >pedals just liek everyone else. They did say they're at teh top of the >list when they do come in but it will probably be a couple weeks at best. >The do have the Echoplex unit in stock though. Didn't get a price on that >(they wanted $110 for the pedal alone). You can make a pedal if you like, directions are on the web page. It's pretty easy. Also, there are jacks on the back for using ordinary momentary switch type pedals to control Record and Overdub, which might be enough until the pedals are available again. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Fri Feb 07 00:36:39 1997 >From kflint Thu Feb 6 09:45:30 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vsXt1-00003t-00; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 09:45:27 -0800 Message-Id: <9702061742.AA13066@beryllium.lexicon.com> Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 12:32:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: RE: Vortex fer sale @ GC- $129.99!!!! To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V3.50c)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"MvgC6D.A.JBH.Zeh-y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2049 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 09:45:27 -0800 X-UIDL: a0b8cb3da2d12f6c526f3f1a6549d4dd Michael said: " It's been opened, but just do what I was planning, get 'em to send it direct to Lex for a checkover (OK Greg? :) )." Well, Michael, I'm sorry that you are not getting the Vortex. As there is a one year domestic warranty the checkover which you refer to should only be necessary if the unit is being purchased to be shipped outside of North America. Best regards, Greg Hogan Lexicon Customer Service Phone 617-280-0372 FAX 617-280-0499 email:ghogan@lexicon.com From ???@??? Fri Feb 07 00:36:47 1997 >From kflint Thu Feb 6 10:23:14 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vsYTZ-0002oy-00; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 10:23:13 -0800 Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 13:18:46 -0500 From: Michael Peters <100041.247@compuserve.com> Subject: RE: A Jamthing, Vortex, and 'plex free post! To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Message-ID: <199702061318_MC2-10F2-9CE9@compuserve.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"USDdWD.A.GbC.hDi-y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2050 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 10:23:13 -0800 X-UIDL: 22ac8562968ac992fc3c485ea91e2f20 > Yeah, I saw these in an opticians recently, > made by Bausch & Lomb. What are they? ;-] ;-] > (No, seriously, I did see them. They are in a small black box with a label > on the side that says "KILLER LOOP". ok, in the name of our looping community :) I'd like to ask you to buy one, scan the label, and upload the image to our web page. After all, killer loops are what this is all about! :-)) > I noticed on the web page that there is a list of loopers and info about > them, but can't see any way of contributing to it. Is there a special > requirement, or am I just missing something? As Andre said, you missed something (it is explained in the list introduction paragraph). Email your contribution to me (email address see below), and I'll add you to the page and send the result to Kim, who eventually uploads it to the web. Michael Peters default mail address: 100041.247@compuserve.com binary stuff and attachments: mp@scholz.re.eunet.de http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters From ???@??? Fri Feb 07 00:36:48 1997 >From kflint Thu Feb 6 10:35:18 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vsYfF-0003mn-00; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 10:35:17 -0800 Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 13:35:54 -0500 (EST) From: Floyd Miller X-Sender: floyd@omni1 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Bananas Echoplex Page In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"XRQTnD.A.2SD.kOi-y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2051 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 10:35:17 -0800 X-UIDL: 03f9f6192f8a4b9a3909a03abed994b7 On Thu, 6 Feb 1997, David Talento wrote: > > > Usually when I hear people talking about "saving" something they are > refering to static RAM where you turn off the unit and it stays in > memory until you intentionally erase it. Actually Static RAM is a type of semiconductor memory technology (ie.e Statuc vs. Dynamic) that has to do with the way the electrical charge is maintained in the memory cells. You probably mean Non-volatile memory. Yeah, ok, I'm being picky here, but a little insertion of technical info can't hurt. Then again perhaps I am missing a certain usage of terms. From ???@??? Fri Feb 07 00:37:06 1997 >From kflint Thu Feb 6 12:44:54 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vsagd-00062d-00; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 12:44:51 -0800 Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 12:24:15 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Tapping tempo --> MIDI Clock In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"4mfRmC.A.haF.TIk-y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2052 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 12:44:51 -0800 X-UIDL: 06784f82d56402dda19f75d4794479cc On Thu, 6 Feb 1997, Kim Flint wrote: > wow, a cyclone user! When I was at Gibson no one really knew what this > thing did, but people were still buying it every now and then. I remember > being at trade shows and meeting fanatical cyclone users. You thought > looping was a niche..... Can somebody give us a thumbnail description of what the cyclone does? Any relation to the Vortex? ;-] --Andre From ???@??? Fri Feb 07 00:37:10 1997 >From kflint Thu Feb 6 13:37:27 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vsbVS-000245-00; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 13:37:22 -0800 Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 16:31:06 -0400 From: "Robert S. Carter" Subject: Re: Tapping tempo --> MIDI Clock To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Reply-to: rsc4@hmivax.humgen.upenn.edu Message-id: <32FA3F88.66A@hmivax.humgen.upenn.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: Resent-Message-ID: <"WsqINB.A.rhB.N3k-y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2054 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 13:37:22 -0800 X-UIDL: 3a355d2fe283ed6b8c714538856462c1 > > wow, a cyclone user! When I was at Gibson no one really knew what this > > thing did, but people were still buying it every now and then. I remember > > being at trade shows and meeting fanatical cyclone users. You thought > > looping was a niche..... > > Can somebody give us a thumbnail description of what the cyclone does? > Any relation to the Vortex? ;-] > > --Andre The oberheim cyclone is a hardware MIDI arpeggiator and sequencer. Arpeggiators have been around since the early days of synthesizers and basically cycle the notes in a chord played on a keyboard. Typical patterns are up, down, up/down, random, etc. and usually are cycled at a fixed rhythm. The cyclone is rather unique in that it took the arpeggiation scheme to an incredible level of complexity. You can program wild and crazy templates with many variations on the up/down theme plus notes can be doubled for arpeggiated harmonies. Rhythms can be programmed as well, which I don't think any other arpeggiator will do. The unit will split a keyboard into zones for two handed arpeggiations or having one hand act as a transposer for arpeggiations generated by the other. And believe me, I have only begun to scratch the surface here- the obertheim web page probably has more info. No, it's not a looper like a Vortex (although it certainly is a MIDI looper) and as pointed out above, the loopers and cycloners probably share a similar mind set. BOB. From ???@??? Fri Feb 07 00:37:09 1997 >From kflint Thu Feb 6 13:21:50 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vsbGP-0000rM-00; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 13:21:49 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970206212547.0071e7c8@xenon.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@xenon.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 13:25:47 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Tapping tempo --> MIDI Clock Resent-Message-ID: <"WK1zgC.A.0h.gqk-y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2053 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 13:21:49 -0800 X-UIDL: a9c6dfbbef1da6b76268a093e16ba959 At 12:24 PM 2/6/97 -0800, you wrote: >On Thu, 6 Feb 1997, Kim Flint wrote: > >> wow, a cyclone user! When I was at Gibson no one really knew what this >> thing did, but people were still buying it every now and then. I remember >> being at trade shows and meeting fanatical cyclone users. You thought >> looping was a niche..... > >Can somebody give us a thumbnail description of what the cyclone does? >Any relation to the Vortex? ;-] > >--Andre > It's a midi arpeggiator. Comes in a cheap plastic box, and has a notoriously difficult user interface with about 4 buttons and a few red leds. From what I understand, once you figure out how to program it, nothing compares to its arpegiating power. It's been out since the late 80's, I think. Since the Vortex does audio and no midi, and the Cyclone does midi and no audio, you probably need a Buchla Lightning to use them together...;-) kim _______________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 VLSI Systems Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research From ???@??? Fri Feb 07 00:37:37 1997 >From kflint Thu Feb 6 16:37:57 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vseK6-0007VY-00; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 16:37:50 -0800 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199702070031.QAA13846@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: Bananas Echoplex Page To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 16:31:27 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: from "Kim Flint" at Feb 6, 97 08:55:00 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"D800-C.A.onG.rfn-y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2055 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 16:37:50 -0800 X-UIDL: 6456a757e5b76281644cf597cf02eca6 How much more cost would be added to a dedicated looper such as an Echoplex if digital I/O for saving/loading to/from a sampler were added to the looper? Paolo Valladolid --------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ---------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Fri Feb 07 00:37:49 1997 >From kflint Thu Feb 6 17:31:10 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vsf9f-00031P-00; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 17:31:07 -0800 Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 17:21:32 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: ngold@mail.teleport.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19970206212547.0071e7c8@xenon.chromatic.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Neil Goldstein Subject: Re: Tapping tempo --> MIDI Clock Resent-Message-ID: <"Yi6EdD.A.5ZC.QQo-y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2056 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 17:31:07 -0800 X-UIDL: 46633836babd314a5b5afac324e864dc >At 12:24 PM 2/6/97 -0800, you wrote: >>On Thu, 6 Feb 1997, Kim Flint wrote: >> >>> wow, a cyclone user! When I was at Gibson no one really knew what this >>> thing did, but people were still buying it every now and then. I remember >>> being at trade shows and meeting fanatical cyclone users. You thought >>> looping was a niche..... >> >>Can somebody give us a thumbnail description of what the cyclone does? >>Any relation to the Vortex? ;-] >> >>--Andre >> > >It's a midi arpeggiator. Comes in a cheap plastic box, and has a notoriously >difficult user interface with about 4 buttons and a few red leds. From what >I understand, once you figure out how to program it, nothing compares to its >arpegiating power. It's been out since the late 80's, I think. > I sold mine after a 5 year love/hate relationship with it, opting to limit options and put more energy into interactive music via audio (JamMan, Logic Audio, and playing with other humanoids). Wouldn't mind having it back though :-) It is pretty powerful. The unit is the midi equivalent of a JamMan, etc as it is meant for live performance and real time modulation (ie live improvisation on top of a loop or arp). It has a small sequencer. The live (midi) input can be arpped in subdivisions of the beat (up/down, random, etc) , or using the rythm input in the sequencer, and/or transposed using an 'algorithm' which you put in yourself, the latter being one of the unique, powerful and difficult to master aspects of the box. It has a versatile modulation matrix, so you can map foot switches (2), velocity or midi controllers to note duration, dynamics, transposition, etc. It slaves or sends midi clock at 96 ppqn. Vast options in a little plastic box with two 8 segment LEDs. There are 3 (keyboard) zones playable simultaneously, including the recorded phrase in the unit itself. It can doubles each 'zone' on seperate midi channels (up to 4 times I think). I got some complex arps and sequences out of it in conjunction with a quadraverb delay synced to midi clock using a K2000 and Proteus 1 making liberal uses of sliders on the K. On one particular occasion all the ingredients were simmering just right, and I remembered to record to dat, thankfully. Results: sort of Acid (Philip) Glass Industrial which could never re-create, unless I remembered to write every note and modulation down. I will upload some samples from that to the Loopers site at some point. The biggest downside of the unit is the user interface. However, it would store in its RAM the sequence data (like we wish the fantasy looper would!. Anybody else have experience with the Cyclone? Neil ngold@teleport.com Portland, OR USA From ???@??? Fri Feb 07 00:37:51 1997 >From kflint Thu Feb 6 19:02:49 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vsgaI-0001Si-00; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 19:02:42 -0800 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199702070254.SAA15311@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: The different sides of loop music To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 18:54:31 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: from "The Man Himself" at Feb 4, 97 01:11:51 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qyXPW.A.y2.xmp-y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2057 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 19:02:42 -0800 X-UIDL: 0117ebefb2625d2ef09e1531cd36079e [snip] > However, I do feel that there's a fundamental difference between what > nearly all of the above areas relate to as opposed to what most of this > list deals with. In essence, most loop-oriented music that's emergent in > popular music is based on sampling already-existing source music and then > re-contextualizing it (or not) in order to produce a new (or not-so-new) > end product. It's a very studio-oriented endeavor, which involves > sampling the source, probably tweaking and filtering the original sample, > editing the length of the sample, assigning it to a sequencer for > triggering, and then possibly blending it into a sonic collage with a > myriad of other sounds and instruments. > > The difference between that approach and the Big Three is that the > JamMan/Echoplex/Boomerang are specifically designed as real-time tools, > which excel at creating and editing loops right then and there, in the > same moment that the music is happening. Moreover, they're geared less > around sampling music that already exists, and more towards acting as a > conduit for sculpting new music that wouldn't exist without the mechanism > of the unit's functions. Traditional samplers capture music that's > already been made; loopers help create music in the here and now. (This > is of course a bit of an over-generalization). [snip] > Any other thoughts? > > --Andre I was under the impression that people like the Orb and even some people on this list use both approaches at the same time in live performance. Supposedly, the Orb feeds their studio-created loops through live signal processing equipment in their shows so no two performances of their music sound the same. For example, they'll take a loop and add some delay or flange or whaterver to it while fiddling with the knobs and other controls of their effects devices in real time. On the other hand, I have no idea if they feed thes pre-made loops into looping devices to make even more loops live. Paolo Valladolid --------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ---------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Fri Feb 07 10:18:35 1997 >From kflint Fri Feb 7 02:11:55 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vsnHe-0007CM-00; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 02:11:54 -0800 Message-Id: <2131.199702071009@eestud4.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 10:09:10 GMT From: Michael Hughes To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: MIDIFY yer VORTICES!!! Resent-Message-ID: <"x-7fbB.A.4oG.58v-y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2058 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 02:11:54 -0800 X-UIDL: a3c036f8e8f7c81c5619ea20ea6c3568 Who'd've thunk there'd be room in my back for _another_ knife...? :( This came from Kenton Electronics today, a world-renowned company specialising in MIDI retrofits of analogue synths etc. I EMailed about getting a MIDI retrofit on the V. I _thought_ I was buying (sniff), and got this reply. The £-$ exchange rate is $1.65=£1 btw. And you're probably VAT (Value Added Tax, ie sales tax) exempt outside the UK. Enjoy... Michael ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ although we don't actually do an internal MIDI retro-fit for the Vortex, it can be controlled using a KADI unit. This is an external box (originally intended for drum machines) which converts MIDI data to trigger signals. The MIDI data may be in the form of program change commands, or note data and the trigger signal may be a positive or negative, level, or pulse, the duration of which is user definable. With the addition of a suitable lead, the device will be able to control all the inputs on the Vortex. The full spec. is as follows... Kenton Pro-KADI --------------- Wasp Mode To Control Wasp/Gnat Synths KADI Mode To Control Drum Machines With A Kenton Socket Kit (Accent Threshold Adjustable In KADI Mode) Trigger Mode : 13 TTL Outputs TTL Outputs May Be Latching (High When Key Pressed), Or Pulses Pulse Width Adjustable Between 100us-10ms (100us Steps) Long 250ms Pulse Width Available For Control Of Relays Individual Note Numbers Assignable For Each TTL Output Note Or Program Change Control Of Triggers Possible (We May Be Open To Additional Suggestions For Methods Of Control) MIDI Thru Sync 24 and Arpeggio Clock Outputs Variable Clock Divide Rate And Polarity User Friendly Interface With 3 Digit LED Display Power Supply : 9-15V dc 100mA Dimensions : 165mmx96mmx42mm Price : =£106.30 (ex VAT) =£124.90 (inc VAT) You may order directly from us and we the units in stock and so same day despatch is usually possible. I trust that this answers all you questions. However, if there is anything else about which you are unsure, please drop me a line. Peter P. Herman (Production Manager / Engineer) Kenton Electronics 12 Tolworth Rise South, Surbiton, Surrey KT5. 9NN. England. Tel. : +44 (0)181 337 0333 Fax : +44 (0)181 330 1060 email : tech@kenton.co.uk www : http://www.kenton.co.uk/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From ???@??? Fri Feb 07 10:18:50 1997 >From kflint Fri Feb 7 08:42:31 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vstNb-0005CJ-00; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 08:42:27 -0800 Message-Id: <199702071639.IAA33764@scv2.apple.com> Subject: Re: MIDIFY yer VORTICES!!! Date: Fri, 7 Feb 97 10:40:41 -0000 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"DeoYcD.A.alE.Qq1-y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2060 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 08:42:27 -0800 X-UIDL: f8516cb72e10db8b70b55466697d0664 >he MIDI data may be in the form of program change commands, or >note data and the trigger signal may be a positive or negative, level, >or pulse, the duration of which is user definable. With the addition of >a suitable lead, the device will be able to control all the inputs on >the Vortex. The full spec. is as follows... I'd considered building a device which would transmit program step messages to the Vortex in an attempt to make it more programmable, but I ran into some conceptual problems, and based on the description of the very interesting KADI box, I'm afraid the problem might also apply. Supposing you have a box with 32 switches. Switch 1 corresponds to preset 1A, switch 2 to preset 1B, etc. You turn on your rig. The Vortex boots up to whatever it was last set to, say 7B. If the hypothetical box doesn't have non-volatile memory, it probably comes up to 1A, since I don't believe there's any simple way to get the Vortex to send messages regarding it's status. So, you either set the Vortex to match the box or vice versa. This is where it gets difficult. Say you're playing your first piece, and the first Vortex patch you want to use is 1A. You're grooving along, until you get to a transition where you want to access, say, 9B. You press the 9B button. My understanding is that you have to send eight step-up signals, plus an A/B signal to get from 1A to 9B. You can't just have a dumb button that sends eight up's and an A/B, since the number of signals depends on where you start. So, unless there's something which can compare where you are and where you want to go, and calculate the correct number of steps and whether or not an A/B needs to be sent, the hypothetical controller won't be that useful. I think this would be a very specialized piece of gear, and it doesn't look like the KADI box would fit the bill, wonderful as it may be for many other applications. I'd love to be wrong on this, so if someone has a different way of doing this, please let me know. Travis Hartnett From ???@??? Fri Feb 07 10:18:37 1997 >From kflint Fri Feb 7 03:36:00 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vsob1-0001OV-00; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 03:35:59 -0800 Message-Id: <28656.199702071134@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 11:34:40 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Loop features, FX processor Resent-Message-ID: <"OSRofD.A.rPB.CNx-y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2059 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 03:35:59 -0800 X-UIDL: a523ab5fe3d2c82a3fc83d8278c68649 > Please >DO NOT answer this question! Instead please answer: What do you want in a >full featured looper and what would you be willing to pay for it? The JM is great; the only differences I'd make are 1. The ability to play different loops concurrently, ie like a multitrack recorder where each could be muted, faded etc 2. MIDI volume controlling global output, so loops could be faded out _and then_back_in_. This could of course be achieved by putting the JM in another processor's FX loop anyway, so it's not _that_ important. On the subject of processors, having blown my chance of ever owning a Vortex (sniff), can I ask the panel which other processors provide channel switching? The only ones I know of are the (non-MIDI-in) Zoom 4040 and the (very expensive) Rocktron Replifex. Any others? (This is of course purely out of interest) Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb From ???@??? Sat Feb 08 01:51:57 1997 >From kflint Fri Feb 7 11:23:47 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vsvte-0001WS-00; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 11:23:42 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 11:16:05 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Fwd: MIDIFY yer VORTICES!!! Resent-Message-ID: <"dFEPvB.A.ez.X93-y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2061 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 11:23:42 -0800 X-UIDL: 0529ef08c2d8b4aea9aa794245415fcf Got this from another list & thought some of you might be interested... >X-Sender: fish@mail.ndirect.co.uk >Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 10:48:21 +0000 >To: analogue@hyperreal.com >From: Fish >Subject: Fwd: MIDIFY yer VORTICES!!! >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Sender: analogue-owner@hyperreal.com >Precedence: bulk > >>This came from Kenton Electronics today, a world-renowned company >specialising >>in MIDI retrofits of analogue synths etc. I EMailed about getting a MIDI >>retrofit on the V. I _thought_ I was buying (sniff), and got this reply. >The >>£-$ exchange rate is $1.65=£1 btw. And you're probably VAT (Value Added >Tax, >>ie sales tax) exempt outside the UK. >> >>Enjoy... >> >>Michael >>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> although we don't actually do an internal MIDI retro-fit >>for the Vortex, it can be controlled using a KADI unit. This is an >>external box (originally intended for drum machines) which converts MIDI >>data to trigger signals. >> >> The MIDI data may be in the form of program change commands, or >>note data and the trigger signal may be a positive or negative, level, >>or pulse, the duration of which is user definable. With the addition of >>a suitable lead, the device will be able to control all the inputs on >>the Vortex. The full spec. is as follows... >> >> >> Kenton Pro-KADI >> --------------- >> >> Wasp Mode To Control Wasp/Gnat Synths >> KADI Mode To Control Drum Machines With A Kenton Socket Kit >> (Accent Threshold Adjustable In KADI Mode) >> Trigger Mode : 13 TTL Outputs >> TTL Outputs May Be Latching (High When Key Pressed), Or Pulses >> Pulse Width Adjustable Between 100us-10ms (100us Steps) >> Long 250ms Pulse Width Available For Control Of Relays >> Individual Note Numbers Assignable For Each TTL Output >> Note Or Program Change Control Of Triggers Possible >> (We May Be Open To Additional Suggestions For Methods Of >> Control) >> MIDI Thru >> Sync 24 and Arpeggio Clock Outputs >> Variable Clock Divide Rate And Polarity >> User Friendly Interface With 3 Digit LED Display >> Power Supply : 9-15V dc 100mA >> Dimensions : 165mmx96mmx42mm >> Price : =£106.30 (ex VAT) =£124.90 (inc VAT) >> >> >> You may order directly from us and we the units in stock and so >>same day despatch is usually possible. I trust that this answers all you >>questions. However, if there is anything else about which you are >>unsure, please drop me a line. >> >> >> >> Peter >> >>P. Herman >>(Production Manager / Engineer) >> >>Kenton Electronics >>12 Tolworth Rise South, >>Surbiton, >>Surrey KT5. 9NN. >>England. >> >>Tel. : +44 (0)181 337 0333 >>Fax : +44 (0)181 330 1060 >>email : tech@kenton.co.uk >>www : http://www.kenton.co.uk/ >> >> >>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> >> >Fish >fish@ndirect.co.uk http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~fish > From ???@??? Sat Feb 08 01:52:00 1997 >From kflint Fri Feb 7 11:24:15 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vsvu8-0001Yd-00; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 11:24:12 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 11:17:59 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: MIDIFY yer VORTICES Resent-Message-ID: <"SRHg8C.A.29.--3-y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2062 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 11:24:12 -0800 X-UIDL: 0ee3ae5a397b0ccaee178a449f64255e Ooops...sorry for the redundancey...it is a small world.... From ???@??? Sat Feb 08 01:52:07 1997 >From kflint Fri Feb 7 15:57:56 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vt0Az-00055H-00; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 15:57:53 -0800 Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 16:57:21 -0500 (EST) From: MiqSk8@aol.com Message-ID: <970207163550_176027882@emout02.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Loop features, FX processor Resent-Message-ID: <"aSr3l.A.xYE.ZB8-y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2065 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 15:57:53 -0800 X-UIDL: 6a8879a810ae6bf7dac2974518e2f4ea In a message dated 97-02-07 15:56:29 EST, you write: << >The JM is great; the only differences I'd make are >1. The ability to play different loops concurrently, ie like a multitrack > recorder where each could be muted, faded etc This is something many dream of... How would you like to control those in practical terms (a key that does...)? >> the idea i have in my mind would involve some kind of visual feedback- click this button, light a goes on, now you're working with loop a(b,c,d). now the loop tools(volume, recoed, multiply, reverse, modulation((!))) are working on that particular loop. it would require the loopy one to keep track of what's what in a logical manner as opposed to a tactile feedback manner(hearing it). while i'm a complete midi novice, i'm thinking that the individual loop information (is there one in b, what's the volume level of d) could be sent as some midi data, which then could be sent to something with a screen (i won't show my bias) for more of that instaneous feedback to avoid swelling in that big loop that has nothing in it. in a dreamlike state i continue- if several loops could be concurrent the added flexibilty of more than two outputs that would be assignable by midi messages as well... certain extensions of the multitrack metaphor could be applied as the idea of improvized multitrack playing is exactly what i want to do, and if i could do it with one or two boxes instead of ten... more than one midi in (more pedals=more control, especially for multiple concurrent loops) and more than one out (synch, dump, once i get data in loop d start the sequencer, i'll stop there, but even more ideas rattling me) but realistically i'd like something in a couple of rack spaces that takes industry standard memory(starting to sound familiar?), that would utilize industry standard pedals (not too familiar) that's really stereo(familiar), with digital in and outs as well (an inevitabilty everyone on this list will face, and already standardized somewhat as well) with the ability to dump(essential). xlr's in addition would be cool, but not essential. some kind of librarian/programmer program for it(and a lot of other pedals, but that's a rant that's misplaced here. lucky keyboard players. not so lucky guitarists/bassists/stickists). wow, longer than i thought, but i really want to make music in this fashion(and i don't have the hombre or the plex even((i'd buy a plex used if i could find one))) and am willing to contribute even if i seem a little crazed. From ???@??? Sat Feb 08 01:52:02 1997 >From kflint Fri Feb 7 13:02:42 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vsxRP-0000pv-00; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 13:02:39 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 18:57:49 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Loop features, FX processor Resent-Message-ID: <"hSB4r.A.8RH.RX5-y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2063 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 13:02:39 -0800 X-UIDL: 7b2271e1d2a917238e1428b215ec2d8d >The JM is great; the only differences I'd make are >1. The ability to play different loops concurrently, ie like a multitrack > recorder where each could be muted, faded etc This is something many dream of... How would you like to control those in practical terms (a key that does...)? From ???@??? Sat Feb 08 01:52:04 1997 >From kflint Fri Feb 7 13:16:46 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vsxf3-0001uL-00; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 13:16:45 -0800 From: Kevin Simonson Message-Id: <199702072116.AA064680215@eagle.uis.edu> Subject: Re: Loop features, FX processor To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 15:16:55 -0700 (CST) In-Reply-To: from "Matthias Grob" at Feb 7, 97 06:57:49 pm Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"pkP2GC.A.NfB.pr5-y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2064 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 13:16:45 -0800 X-UIDL: a9cde35c5e57193da4f847e3af0457c9 > > > >The JM is great; the only differences I'd make are > >1. The ability to play different loops concurrently, ie like a multitrack > > recorder where each could be muted, faded etc > > This is something many dream of... > How would you like to control those in practical terms (a key that does...)? > How about an eight position joystick to send midi data? :) -- Kevin Simonson * AS/400 Application Development Team University of Illinois-Springfield * Programmer / Analyst Computer Science, et al. * Norwest Mortgage, Inc. simonson@eagle.uis.edu * Springfield, IL From ???@??? Sat Feb 08 01:52:12 1997 >From kflint Fri Feb 7 20:22:06 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vt4Ie-0005d2-00; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 20:22:04 -0800 Message-ID: <32FBFD62.4B1A@bigger.net> Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 20:13:22 -0800 From: Roland Eberle <819fKcx0@bigger.net> Reply-To: 819fKcx0@bigger.net Organization: System User X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-KIT (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Vortex in No. California Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"unQidD.A.h8E.A3_-y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2066 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 20:22:04 -0800 X-UIDL: d05f23079f5fa83020517b17f088ff7f For anyone interested...the Guitar Center store in Pleasant Hill Ca. has at least one (in box per salesperson) Vortex for the blow out price of 149.99 I was there tonight and the salesguy I spoke with is known as "D". From ???@??? Sat Feb 08 01:52:15 1997 >From kflint Fri Feb 7 21:38:58 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vt5Uz-0001dn-00; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 21:38:53 -0800 Message-ID: <32FBFEE7.4E52@bigger.net> Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 20:19:51 -0800 From: Roland Eberle <819fKcx0@bigger.net> Reply-To: 819fKcx0@bigger.net Organization: System User X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-KIT (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Jam Man upgrade chips Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-HUtQ.A.xOB.HAB_y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2068 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 21:38:53 -0800 X-UIDL: e33d9032eb8e81072c8789a331c89050 I have four 1M x 4 bit (toshiba 100ns) zip chips to upgrade your jamman to 32 secs. I bought them from a Bay area electronics supply place (bought 10...used 4 for my machine...and actually have 6 left over but I kind of bent one of the pins on one of them...) and succesfully upgraded my machine. I'd like to trade them for ?? (something you dont want that I may?) like a used proco rat box or a tremelo box or...anything more useful to me than 4 (all 6 actually) memory chips. Interested parties can email me at either of these 2 addresses roland@ccnet.com or roland@sj.bigger.net From ???@??? Sat Feb 08 01:52:14 1997 >From kflint Fri Feb 7 20:48:12 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vt4hv-0006u8-00; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 20:48:11 -0800 X-Mailer: WinNET Mail, v2.61 Message-ID: <817@mainstring.win.net> Reply-To: pk@mainstring.win.net (Pat Kirtley) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 23:34:56 Subject: Killer Loop found From: pk@mainstring.win.net (Pat Kirtley) Resent-Message-ID: <"cXyl1C.A.qTG.cTA_y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2067 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 20:48:11 -0800 X-UIDL: 231dd732de3861a76d5ded94f8c153d9 In reference to someone who referred to a "killer loop" the other day, I think I found it-- The track is: "Can We Go Round in Circles" The album: "Killer in the Loop" by Charles Jammanson 1973, Infinimum Continuum Records (out of print, I think) --pk :-) From ???@??? Sat Feb 08 17:37:51 1997 >From kflint Sat Feb 8 02:13:05 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vt9mK-0003tW-00; Sat, 8 Feb 1997 02:13:04 -0800 Message-Id: <17450.199702081011@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 10:11:24 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Re: Loop features, FX processor Resent-Message-ID: <"aQtY1D.A.GlD.8EF_y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2069 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 02:13:04 -0800 X-UIDL: a65fe6d712b12ac2f565373a34f741eb >In a message dated 97-02-07 15:56:29 EST, you write: > ><< >The JM is great; the only differences I'd make are > >1. The ability to play different loops concurrently, ie like a >multitrack > > recorder where each could be muted, faded etc > > This is something many dream of... > How would you like to control those in practical terms (a key that does...)? > >> Exactly the same way the JM deals with separate loops at the moment - by scrolling thgrough them. If I remember correctly (I'm not a user of multiple loops) the JM shows the current active loop on the front panel, andd operations only apply to that loop. So if you have loops 1,2 and 3 and you want to fade 3, select it and hit "fade". The other loops continue as before. OK you have to remember what's in what loop, but we have to do that for multiple loops anyway. It's really an expansion on the UNDO key - you can start with ostinato chords (loop 1) add a riff (2) and a melody (3), then replace the riff, or suddenly mute the riff and melody for dramatic effect. The JM's phrased mute would be ideal for this, as you could cue 2 loops to mute at the end of the next bar, giving time to select and mute both. In order to keep track of the number of concurrent loops, that number would best be kept small and so the JM's memory wouldn't need to be overexpanded... Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb From ???@??? Sun Feb 09 02:43:38 1997 >From kflint Sat Feb 8 19:39:56 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vtQ7O-0007VG-00; Sat, 8 Feb 1997 19:39:54 -0800 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199702090333.TAA01720@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: Some ideas... To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 19:33:35 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <970205011014_1014689437@emout10.mail.aol.com> from "Dpcoffin@aol.com" at Feb 5, 97 02:09:35 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MtqcqB.A.C1G.VWU_y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2070 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 19:39:54 -0800 X-UIDL: 3016e1546182f3f7fa32c6cbb0cdde70 > > In a message dated 2/4/97 7:59:37 PM, jj wrote, re algorithmic loop mutation: > > < Any other thoughts on how to put some fresh, (relatively) unpredictable > or at least systemic experimentation into looping? > >> > Sounds like a job for Max, Opcode/IRcam's MIDI programming environment, which > can apparently detect and/or analyse audio via an Audiomedia card, I > understand...or rather I DON'T understand, but betcha one of the folks on the > lofty max list could set up something like what you describe...there's also > SuperCollider, an amazing real-time synth and audio processor for the Power What's the URL? > Mac (whose downloadable demo is a free sonic trip NO audio-minded PowerPC > owner should overlook!). And of course, who knows what couldn't be done with > cSound, a Kyma box, or even an Eventide DSP4000, were money and audio I like the idea behind the Kyma/Capybara. Basically, have one box that can do synthesis, digital recording, sampling, effects, etc. all at once in real-time and have it be totally controllable from software. It's not cheap, but can be a bargain if you compare it with the cost of separate effects boxes, samplers, synths, a digital recorder etc.; none of which is likely to be as flexible. Harvey recommends it as the sound source for his new microtonal MIDI controller which he calls teh MicroZone. It can currently divide an octave into 72 steps. The keyboard uses a 768-key honeycomb design. You can peek at it at: http://catalog.com/starrlab/ I find it very fascinating because one could theoretically use any microtonal temperament with this keyboard. You could create some crazy sounding stuff for looping with this beast. Paolo Valladolid --------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ---------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Sun Feb 09 13:02:12 1997 >From kflint Sun Feb 9 08:46:20 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vtcOR-0003zv-00; Sun, 9 Feb 1997 08:46:19 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970209113850.0068c204@popmail.voicenet.com> X-Sender: floyd@popmail.voicenet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 11:38:54 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Floyd Miller Subject: Midi Sample Dump Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"iafHDC.A.NcD.s1f_y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2071 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 08:46:19 -0800 X-UIDL: 8fcff39e60f92961c8bbca2eb5f39e8f I tried dumping a loop into my sequencer. It was a long loop, about 50 seconds. So I was prepared to be patient, but after 20 minutes it was still sending data. The numbers in the "multiple" window (that's supposed to be percent complete, no?) kept counting and overflowing and counting some more with the 10's digit incrementing about once per second or so. I then tried recording a short loop, a little less than 1 second. And the DUMP still would go on and on. I haven't looked at the sysex data to see if it's repeating. I don't know if I'd be able to tell easily. The data does look like sample dump data. Any advice or similar experiences out there? **************** ********** Floyd Miller ****** floyd@voicenet.com ** http://www.voicenet.com/~floyd From ???@??? Sun Feb 09 13:02:29 1997 >From kflint Sun Feb 9 12:25:05 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vtfo8-0004s7-00; Sun, 9 Feb 1997 12:25:04 -0800 Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 14:31:58 -0500 (EST) From: Dpcoffin@aol.com Message-ID: <970209143131_507653472@emout03.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Some ideas... Resent-Message-ID: <"90USjB.A.7PE.ZEj_y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2075 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 12:25:04 -0800 X-UIDL: 430a957116d2155c80397f6cb67a1160 Re: SuperCollider: I got the demo on aol, and it's a gas...turn it on and let it stream cool, evolving audio at you. But it's much more than a toy (and apparently quite a handful if you're not a programmer), What follows is from the creator. the URL for the SuperCollider demo (along with a few FAQs): *** What is SuperCollider? SuperCollider is an environment for real time audio synthesis which runs on a Power Macintosh with no additional hardware. SuperCollider features: a built in programming language with real time incremental garbage collection, first class functions/closures, a small object oriented class system, a mini GUI builder for creating a patch control panel, a graphical interface for creating wave tables and breakpoint envelopes, MIDI control, a large library of signal processing and synthesis functions a few of which are found nowhere else, and a large library of functions for list processing of musical data. The user can write both the synthesis and compositional algorithms for their piece in the same high level language. This allows the creation of synthesis instruments with considerably more flexibility than allowed in lower level synthesis languages. Since it is easy to create control panels and graphic displays, SuperCollider is well suited as a tool for teaching various synthesis techniques. SuperCollider reads Sound Designer II and AIFF files and writes Sound Designer II files. It can input and output audio from either the Sound Manager or streamed from/to a file. The demo is available via anonymous ftp from : ftp://kahless.isca.uiowa.edu/pub/algo-comp/SuperColliderDemo.sea.hqx *** What does it run on? Only Power Macintoshes. It did not run on the PowerPC card upgraded Mac that I have tested because it requires the audio hardware of the Power Mac. It does not and never will run on 68K Macs. The 68K just doesn't have the horsepower for real time synthesis. *** Any particular flavor of Power Mac this works best on? The faster the better. I use it on an 8100/80. The 6100 is underpowered, especially without a cache card. I do use it on a 5300/100 Powerbook but again it is a little underpowered on that one though quite usable. *** What is the programming language like? If you would like to know more about the programming language, it is an extended version of my Pyrite MAX object. *** Is the maximum delay time limited only by available RAM? E.g. if I crank up SuperCollider's RAM allocation, can I have a 30-second delay line? Yes. All values are floats so it is 4 bytes per sample. A 30 second delay line would take up 5 Mb. *** I've never programmed and don't know how synthesizers work but I want to learn on your program. SuperCollider is probably not for beginners at programming or audio synthesis. If you've at least dabbled in both then you may find it rewarding. It is easier to use than CSound but more technical than TurboSynth. When you buy it, you get: the SuperCollider program and example patches, a 196 page manual, one year of bug fixes, updates and email support (within reason). for: $250 plus shipping ($10 US, $15 Canada, Mexico, $50 overseas). by U.S. check or international money order (Sorry, no credit cards or COD's) to: James McCartney 3403 Dalton St. Austin, TX 78745 USA From ???@??? Sun Feb 09 14:40:54 1997 >From kflint Sun Feb 9 13:42:13 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vth0m-0000Xn-00; Sun, 9 Feb 1997 13:42:12 -0800 Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 13:09:02 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Midi Sample Dump In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970209113850.0068c204@popmail.voicenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"AB6_E.A.9QH.XGk_y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2076 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 13:42:12 -0800 X-UIDL: 920e6bc14cbb5343f7685239808876a6 On Sun, 9 Feb 1997, Floyd Miller wrote: > I tried dumping a loop into my sequencer. It was a long loop, > about 50 seconds. So I was prepared to be patient, but after 20 > minutes it was still sending data. The numbers in the "multiple" > window (that's supposed to be percent complete, no?) kept counting > and overflowing and counting some more with the 10's digit incrementing > about once per second or so. > > I then tried recording a short loop, a little less than 1 second. > And the DUMP still would go on and on. > > I haven't looked at the sysex data to see if it's repeating. I don't > know if I'd be able to tell easily. The data does look like sample > dump data. I've had some similar experiences with saving Echoplex loops to computer. The manual says something to the effect of one minute for every second of loop time, but I've found it to be close to twice that amount, at least. I stored a six-second loop to computer, but it took around 10 minutes to save. You'll know when you've saved the whole thing, because the Echoplex will eventually stop sending data. When it stops crunching numbers, then it's done -- keep an eye on the front console. Saving a 50-second loop, though, could literally take hours. Make sure you've got time, and that your SysEx repository has a fairly large buffer -- I ran into much trouble trying to save to Master Trax Pro until I realized that Trax closed up after about 512 messages -- far from enough for even a short loop. --Andre From ???@??? Sun Feb 09 13:02:31 1997 >From kflint Sun Feb 9 12:26:02 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vtfp2-0004vt-00; Sun, 9 Feb 1997 12:26:00 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 18:18:49 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Multitrack looper (was: Loop features, FX processor) Resent-Message-ID: <"wc0hoC.A.-7D.c-i_y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2073 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 12:26:00 -0800 X-UIDL: 12a93b59bb848f5979c7bcf3b6e674e5 Dr Pycraft said: >> >The JM is great; the only differences I'd make are >> >1. The ability to play different loops concurrently, ie like a multitrack >> > recorder where each could be muted, faded etc myself: >> This is something many dream of... >> How would you like to control those in practical terms (a key that does...)? Dr Pycraft again: >Exactly the same way the JM deals with separate loops at the moment - by >scrolling thgrough them. If I remember correctly (I'm not a user of >multiple loops) the JM shows the current active loop on the front panel, >andd operations only apply to that loop. So if you have loops 1,2 and 3 >and you want to fade 3, select it and hit "fade". The other loops continue >as before. OK you have to remember what's in what loop, but we have to do >that for multiple loops anyway. Now I am confused. I was not aware the JM was able to play its various loops simultaneously. And its your proposual for this modification that iniciates this mail... ? Or: what would be the difference between a multitrack looper and having several simultaneous loops? Hmm, you do not use multiple loops (neither do I), but would we use multiple tracks? >It's really an expansion on the UNDO key - you can start with ostinato >chords (loop 1) add a riff (2) and a melody (3), then replace the riff, or >suddenly mute the riff and melody for dramatic effect. The JM's phrased >mute would be ideal for this, as you could cue 2 loops to mute at the end >of the next bar, giving time to select and mute both. In order to keep >track of the number of concurrent loops, that number would best be kept >small and so the JM's memory wouldn't need to be overexpanded... The Plex is not able to play several loops simultaneously, so far. The idea with scrolling through loops is common to all units and ideas. But: You would not need to operate several loops as one? To "pre-operate" them with the "phrased" (JM) or "quantized" (Plex) functions might help, but in my case would not resolve, because I rarely play in respect to loop-end. I see that a extended use of multiple tracks could make UNDO and Multiply rather useless (having only 3-5 parallel loops, I would still want them!). But then, the various loops have to be of different length and synced, which corresponds somehow to the Next-Insert (TimeCopy) function of the Plex. For the operation of several loops, would it become complicated? Then, there was MiqSk8's dream: >the idea i have in my mind would involve some kind of visual feedback- click >this button, light a goes on, now you're working with loop a(b,c,d). now the >loop tools(volume, recoed, multiply, reverse, modulation((!))) are working on >that particular loop. it would require the loopy one to keep track of what's >what in a logical manner as opposed to a tactile feedback manner(hearing it). > >while i'm a complete midi novice, i'm thinking that the individual loop >information (is there one in b, what's the volume level of d) could be sent >as some midi data, which then could be sent to something with a screen (i >won't show my bias) for more of that instaneous feedback to avoid swelling in >that big loop that has nothing in it. Yes, I think display becomes very important in this context. Thats why I thought we should do it in a computer right away... Do you think a LCD would do it? Or did I get your wrong... you want to send this information by MIDI from the looper to where? Would it make sense to have a looper hardware that takes a computer to control it? >- if several loops could be concurrent the >added flexibilty of more than two outputs that would be assignable by midi >messages as well... certain extensions of the multitrack metaphor could be >applied as the idea of improvized multitrack playing is exactly what i want >to do, and if i could do it with one or two boxes instead of ten... more than >one midi in (more pedals=more control, especially for multiple concurrent >loops) and more than one out (synch, dump, once i get data in loop d start >the sequencer, i'll stop there, but even more ideas rattling me) Sounds good, all kinds of interdependent cues. For me it would be like a mixing desk with pan for each loop and at leas one Aux send, because the percussion loops I have done lately need different reverb and positioning for each instrument. But it also takes a system that my friend percussionist is able to understand... We will end up getting there! Matthias From ???@??? Sun Feb 09 13:02:28 1997 >From kflint Sun Feb 9 12:25:02 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vtfo4-0004rm-00; Sun, 9 Feb 1997 12:25:00 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 18:19:28 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Another new member Resent-Message-ID: <"NmjVXB.A.k_D.F_i_y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2074 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 12:25:00 -0800 X-UIDL: 6122137f1b2bc3106df3e824b7baf5b2 Fish: ... >I originally discovered this technique while playing about with a friend's >Roland tape delay and a wah-wah pedal but it's quite easy to reproduce with >the EB16. The basic theory is to take a sound, put it through a slowly >sweeping band pass filter, delay the signal, and then feed it back to the >start where it gets filtered, delayed and fed back again. > >Now, you're probably thinking this is a bad idea and will result in the >nasty howl around feedback which we're all familiar with having plugged an >output into it's own input after one spliff too many in the studio. But >it's the sweeping band pass filter that's the key here. As the filter only >lets through a certain range of frequencies and eliminates the others, by >the time the delayed signal is fed back to the input the filter will have >shifted frequency sufficiently to prevent the signal building up into that >nasty howl. Did you try to use a compressor, maybe even in the feed back path? >Depending on the original sound and by adjusting various parameters you can >achieve a number of weird and wonderful effects. Play a big chord using >nice thick pad and pass it through the feedback loop and you get a >beautiful evolving swirl of sound as the various harmonics are picked out >and emphasized. Take a techno stab, played in time with the delay and your >riff takes on a life of it's own. Or a few Rhodes chords add a really >spacey dimension to a dub track. White noise textures also work well with >the feedback loop adding a lot of movement to the sound. And of course with >an electric guitar, which is what I first made the effect for, your average >solo will take right off into space! I would really like to hear this. I just tried to implement on the PCM80 with the M-Band algorithm, but it failed, because the filters have no Q and the feed back is limited to 100%, so its just fading filtered, which is nice, but not what you are telling us. And I am too lazy to create an analog external feedback :-) The Resonant Chord algorithm create something similar, right Greg? Matthias From ???@??? Sun Feb 09 18:16:34 1997 >From kflint Sun Feb 9 14:47:18 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vti1k-0003XW-00; Sun, 9 Feb 1997 14:47:16 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 14:40:43 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Midi Sample Dump Resent-Message-ID: <"7ugN7B.A.GHD.iMl_y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2077 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 14:47:16 -0800 X-UIDL: 65c800bd32e90ab30b247dc13af8f6d5 Floyd said: >I tried dumping a loop into my sequencer. It was a long loop, >about 50 seconds. So I was prepared to be patient, but after 20 >minutes it was still sending data. The numbers in the "multiple" >window (that's supposed to be percent complete, no?) kept counting >and overflowing and counting some more with the 10's digit incrementing >about once per second or so. Midi Sample Dump is painfully slow. I just dumped a 1 second loop and timed it. It took 86 seconds to finish. So your 50 second loop would take about 72 minutes. If your sequencer supports handshaking, the process should speed up quite a bit. Without it, the echoplex adds delays in the data transmission to limit the danger of over running data buffers on the receiving device. With handshaking, the receiver can acknowledge each chunk of data so that the echoplex knows when it is ok to send the next chunk and doesn't wait. The slowness isn't the echoplex's fault. The problem is that midi is a slow, inefficient, piece of garbage. It clocks data at 31.25khz, meaning the best case is 31,250 bits per second. For each 8 bit data byte that midi transmits, it requires one "start bit" and one "stop bit." That's 1/5 of the bandwidth right there. So we are down to 25,000 bits per second. Sample Dump transmits chunks of data, or "packets," at a time, each containing 127 bytes. 7 of those bytes are protocol overhead. So we throw out another 7/127 of data bandwidth and are down to 23,622 bits of data per second. Midi doesn't stop the abuse there, because each 8 bit byte can only have 7 bits of data, with the most significant bit being 0. There goes another 1/8 of bandwidth, and we are down to 20,669 data bits per second. The sample dump standard further insists that each audio sample be justified within the 7-bit bytes, meaning we need 3 of them (21 bits) to contain a typical 16 bit audio sample. Unused bits are filled with zeros, and we are throwing away 5 bits for each sample. So we lose another 5/21 of our data bandwidth, and we finally arrive at 15,748 bits per second of actual data. Each sample is 16 bits, so we are sending 984 samples per second. The Echoplex's sample rate is 41.5khz, meaning 41,500 samples in one second of audio. 41500/984 = 42.2 seconds, just to transfer 1 second of audio in the ideal case. Adding delays to prevent buffer overflows apparently doubles this, so it ends up taking 86 seconds for 1 second of audio. The handshaking will presumably cut this by as much as 1/2, depending on how fast the receiver can deal with the data flow. Beautiful, isn't it? Just takes a LOT of patience. We added Sample Dump, actually, because everyone seemed to be complaining about the Jamman for not having such a thing. We didn't actually think anyone would find it very useful, but it was relatively easy since it didn't require any extra hardware than we already had. Be careful what you wish for..... Oh, and ignore the counter. The "percent done" part never got implemented, since we ran into so many problems trying to work around everyone else's strange sample dump implementations. > >Any advice or similar experiences out there? > My advice: start the dump and go to lunch. And if you are sending 50 second loops, make sure your sequencer can hold about 4.2 megabytes. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Feb 09 21:26:45 1997 >From kflint Sun Feb 9 19:13:07 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vtmB0-0007nc-00; Sun, 9 Feb 1997 19:13:06 -0800 Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 19:07:24 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: cmeyer@ni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: cmeyer@cybmotion.com (Chris Meyer) Subject: Re: Midi Sample Dump Resent-Message-ID: <"qYARMB.A.4BH.6Dp_y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2078 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 19:13:06 -0800 X-UIDL: 4ec55db5eaa523d0c2491b1fe0e0ec98 At 2:40 PM 2/9/97, Kim Flint wrote: >Midi Sample Dump is painfully slow. <...> >If your sequencer supports handshaking, the process should >speed up quite a bit. Without it, the echoplex adds delays in the data >transmission to limit the danger of over running data buffers on the >receiving device.... Exactly right (from the, ahem, author of the SDS, with Dave Rossum). No handshake - or "open loop" as it is known - is extremely slow compared to the normal "closed loop" dump, which is merely painfully slow . It is worth considering a copy of Passport Alchemy or BIAS Peak (1.5 or later) to do sample dumps in a more efficient way, if for no other reason. Favorite quote: "Time is money...and the exchange rate is lousy." - CM P.S. Wouldn't it be nice if one of the so-callled data file floppy drives out there could recognize a sample dump and handshake accordingly? Were any that smart? If any one has a chance, it might be the Alesis; Marcus is no dummy... \ Chris & Trish Meyer/CyberMotion: Motion Graphics Design & Effects \ cmeyer@cybmotion.com & cybertrish@aol.com fax: (818) 598 3957 \__________________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Sun Feb 09 23:11:24 1997 >From kflint Sun Feb 9 21:32:13 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vtoLb-0006dy-00; Sun, 9 Feb 1997 21:32:11 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970210000938.0068fcbc@omni2.voicenet.com> X-Sender: floyd@omni2.voicenet.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 00:12:50 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Floyd Miller Subject: Re: Midi Sample Dump Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"1TKbg.A.lAG.4Gr_y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2079 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 21:32:11 -0800 X-UIDL: 07bc2554e4ec97af6478a367a922e4be At 02:40 PM 2/9/97 -0800, you wrote: >Floyd said: >>I tried dumping a loop into my sequencer. Thanks Kim and Chris for your repsonses. I guess I was not being patient enough. I tried a gain with a short loop and it works, albeit slower than I imagined. I'll try dumping to my K2000 at some point to see if it's any faster. But I guess unless the loop is really killer and irreplaceable, it may not be worth trying to save a 50 second loop via sample dump.. A digital audio recording might be good enough. Still I am glad to have the capability. **************** ********** Floyd Miller ****** floyd@voicenet.com ** http://www.voicenet.com/~floyd From ???@??? Sun Feb 09 23:11:25 1997 >From kflint Sun Feb 9 21:58:43 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vtolD-0000HB-00; Sun, 9 Feb 1997 21:58:39 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 21:51:21 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Midi Sample Dump Resent-Message-ID: <"KthqYD.A.VC.Rgr_y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2080 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 21:58:39 -0800 X-UIDL: a29c93ab713cb56727e119f2902105e9 At 7:07 PM 2/9/97, Chris Meyer wrote: >Exactly right (from the, ahem, author of the SDS, with Dave Rossum). No ah...one of the responsible parties finally turns up....Welcome Chris! :-) >It is worth considering a copy of Passport Alchemy or BIAS Peak (1.5 or >later) to do sample dumps in a more efficient way, if for no other reason. Yes, and as I recall, Sound Designer worked pretty well too. If Eric is paying attention to this thread he might have some good choices too. >P.S. Wouldn't it be nice if one of the so-callled data file floppy drives >out there could recognize a sample dump and handshake accordingly? Were any >that smart? If any one has a chance, it might be the Alesis; Marcus is no >dummy... Won't it be nice when everything has firewire or fast ethernet, embedded tcp/ip and micro web-servers.....oh, what a dream....... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Mon Feb 10 09:02:51 1997 >From kflint Sun Feb 9 23:17:35 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vtpzU-0003q2-00; Sun, 9 Feb 1997 23:17:28 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 23:11:14 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Multitrack looper (was: Loop features, FX processor) Resent-Message-ID: <"hy5xYC.A.0dD.Trs_y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2081 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 23:17:28 -0800 X-UIDL: 5ebb2af24173dd4d3a9ef7dc27b9a660 At 6:18 PM 2/9/97, Matthias Grob wrote: >Dr Pycraft said: >>> >The JM is great; the only differences I'd make are >>> >1. The ability to play different loops concurrently, ie like a multitrack >>> > recorder where each could be muted, faded etc > >myself: >>> This is something many dream of... >>> How would you like to control those in practical terms (a key that does...)? > >Dr Pycraft again: >>Exactly the same way the JM deals with separate loops at the moment - by >>scrolling thgrough them. If I remember correctly (I'm not a user of >>multiple loops) the JM shows the current active loop on the front panel, >>andd operations only apply to that loop. So if you have loops 1,2 and 3 >>and you want to fade 3, select it and hit "fade". The other loops continue >>as before. OK you have to remember what's in what loop, but we have to do >>that for multiple loops anyway. > >Now I am confused. I was not aware the JM was able to play its various Before we get too far with this, lets try to define some terminology. We had to do this when we started thinking about these ideas at g-wiz long ago: Loop - a potentially complex set of media data, repeating in some fashion in time. A "Loop" can contain one or more "tracks." The tracks repeat in some relation to the loop repetition rate, and may all be synced together in equal lengths or have complicated time relationships to each other. Any looper, no matter what it's features, would only play one loop at a time. When we talk about multiple loops, we mean things that are discreet from each other in time. So you might switch from one loop to another, but you wouldn't play two at once. If you did, you would still have one loop, but it would just have more tracks. Got that? Track - A singular set of media data, available to be repeated in some fashion within a "loop." A track can be operated on with the various loop functions we have available. So the echoplex and jamman have multiple loops, but really only use one track at a time in a loop. Some of the functions give the appearance of multitracking, like overdubbing on both of them, and multiply and undo on the plex. Then there are all sorts of things that can happen in a multitrack environment. Grouping, copying, different processing on each track, defining relationships between tracks, etc. Really a whole new set of performance functions. How you put all that in a usable interface, that makes sense for real-time, live usage, is the tricky part! kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Mon Feb 10 09:02:53 1997 >From kflint Sun Feb 9 23:24:11 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vtq5y-0004CX-00; Sun, 9 Feb 1997 23:24:10 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 23:18:23 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Midi Sample Dump Resent-Message-ID: <"lBsGMC.A.bzD.3xs_y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2082 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 23:24:10 -0800 X-UIDL: 0fd6dfd4ed46b0f0ea87ec3241f4c02d >At 02:40 PM 2/9/97 -0800, you wrote: >>Floyd said: >>>I tried dumping a loop into my sequencer. > >Thanks Kim and Chris for your repsonses. >I guess I was not being patient enough. >I tried a gain with a short loop and it works, >albeit slower than I imagined. > >I'll try dumping to my K2000 at some point to see if it's >any faster. Best not to try the k2000...it won't be supported in the echoplex sample dump for a while, because it requires some special features that we have to add. If I remember right, the k2000 adds 200 to the sample #, and doesn't subtract it out again when you try to send back to the echoplex. The current echoplex soft doesn't like that much. It'll be there eventually. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Mon Feb 10 09:02:58 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 10 04:36:15 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vtuxy-0004TG-00; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 04:36:14 -0800 Message-Id: <15193.199702101226@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 12:26:00 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Re: Multitrack looper (was: Loop features, FX processor) Resent-Message-ID: <"1ds43D.A.k6D.HPx_y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2083 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 04:36:14 -0800 X-UIDL: 100b11e0d8d499422013e8f93242e7f2 Michael: >The JM is great; the only differences I'd make are >1. The ability to play different loops concurrently, ie like a multitrack > recorder where each could be muted, faded etc Matthias: >Now I am confused. I was not aware the JM was able to play its various >loops simultaneously. And its your proposual for this modification that >iniciates this mail... ? No, it can't - but I'd like it to.... :) >Or: what would be the difference between a multitrack looper and having >several simultaneous loops? Matthias again: >Hmm, you do not use multiple loops (neither do I), but would we use >multiple tracks? I think so. Before I got my JM I assumed this was how multiple "loops" worked. I'd like the ability to loop a verse with chords and a bassline, then keep the bassline but drop the chords out for the chorus, then bring them back. Or fade between one theme and another without losing a fundamental pulse or riff. I think that, for example, it would help you do the kind of music on your cassette (review to follow soon, folks) without editing later, ie live. >You would not need to operate several loops as one? >To "pre-operate" them with the "phrased" (JM) or "quantized" (Plex) >functions might help, but in my case would not resolve, because I rarely >play in respect to loop-end. >I see that a extended use of multiple tracks could make UNDO and Multiply >rather useless (having only 3-5 parallel loops, I would still want them!). >But then, the various loops have to be of different length and synced, >which corresponds somehow to the Next-Insert (TimeCopy) function of the >Plex. For the operation of several loops, would it become complicated? Probably, but it would be worth it. It would give more control overt the evolving stucture of the music. To help resolve this, Kim provided: >Loop - a potentially complex set of media data, repeating in some fashion >in time. A "Loop" can contain one or more "tracks." The tracks repeat in >some relation to the loop repetition rate, and may all be synced together >in equal lengths or have complicated time relationships to each other. Any >looper, no matter what it's features, would only play one loop at a time. >When we talk about multiple loops, we mean things that are discreet from >each other in time. So you might switch from one loop to another, but you >wouldn't play two at once. If you did, you would still have one loop, but >it would just have more tracks. Got that? THAT'S IT. I don't wan't multiple loops, but multiple TRACKS with individual control over each TRACK, or at least the possibility of controlling 2-4 tracks with layered looping in each track. Matthias once more.. >Yes, I think display becomes very important in this context. Thats why I >thought we should do it in a computer right away... Michael: Naah... A MAC on top of a marshall stack does _not_ look good.... Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb From ???@??? Sun Feb 09 13:02:14 1997 >From kflint Sun Feb 9 10:21:06 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vtds9-0007ZP-00; Sun, 9 Feb 1997 10:21:05 -0800 Message-ID: <32FF1FA5.845@erols.com> Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 13:16:21 +0000 From: Michael Preston Reply-To: michpres@erols.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Vortex fader/CC/expression of thanks Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"o3atsC.A.Y5G.FSh_y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2072 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 10:21:05 -0800 X-UIDL: 0ef2fed909a0a084700583a414eb8de4 This weekend I finally acted on all the good advice on the list regarding appropriate pots and faders for continuous control of parameter changes in the Vortex. I removed the pot from my Yamaha FC-7 expression pedal, replaced it with a linear taper pot, and now I can happily sweep through 1-64 in a full pedal stroke. Thanks to whoever recommended a linear taper pot, and thanks to Matthias for the tips on removing solder! Preston From ???@??? Mon Feb 10 09:02:59 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 10 05:45:53 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vtw3M-00066e-00; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 05:45:52 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970210082927.00691234@popmail.voicenet.com> X-Sender: floyd@popmail.voicenet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 08:29:57 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Floyd Miller Subject: Re: Midi Sample Dump Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"FvrJy.A.KTF.lKy_y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2084 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 05:45:52 -0800 X-UIDL: a9dc56a5e6f20c9aced7aba98366b5d6 At 11:18 PM 2/9/97 -0800, Kim wrote: >Best not to try the k2000...it won't be supported in the echoplex sample >dump for a while, because it requires some special features that we have to >add. If I remember right, the k2000 adds 200 to the sample #, and doesn't >subtract it out again when you try to send back to the echoplex. The >current echoplex soft doesn't like that much. It'll be there eventually. > Ahhh. Yes the K2K does that. What does the Echoplex do with the sample#? Does it use it to say which loop # ? **************** ********** Floyd Miller ****** floyd@voicenet.com ** http://www.voicenet.com/~floyd From ???@??? Mon Feb 10 09:03:00 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 10 06:45:47 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vtwzJ-0000J3-00; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 06:45:45 -0800 Date: Mon, 10 Feb 97 09:14:49 EST From: c62op27@ibx.com (Victor Fiorillo) Message-Id: <9702101414.AA03459@ibx.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Akai S2000 Resent-Message-ID: <"7iXhmB.A.FJ.lPz_y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2085 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 06:45:45 -0800 X-UIDL: 49fe27f2890c0bea98ec63d249e901e6 Does anyone have any experience using the Akai S2000 sampler for looping applications? Victor From ???@??? Mon Feb 10 09:03:13 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 10 08:24:45 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vtyX5-0005GO-00; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 08:24:43 -0800 Message-Id: <9702101442.AA22087@beryllium.lexicon.com> Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 09:31:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: Re: Another new member To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V3.50c)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"gLsNfC.A.2qE.Qr0_y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2086 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 08:24:43 -0800 X-UIDL: 9885b06f3a66a13d9161759cf93d8127 ---------- From: Loopers-Delight To: Loopers-Delight Subject: Re: Another new member Date: Sunday, February 09, 1997 5:14PM In reply to Fish saying: ... >I originally discovered this technique while playing about with a friend's >Roland tape delay and a wah-wah pedal but it's quite easy to reproduce with >the EB16. The basic theory is to take a sound, put it through a slowly >sweeping band pass filter, delay the signal, and then feed it back to the >start where it gets filtered, delayed and fed back again. > >Now, you're probably thinking this is a bad idea and will result in the >nasty howl around feedback which we're all familiar with having plugged an >output into it's own input after one spliff too many in the studio. But >it's the sweeping band pass filter that's the key here. As the filter only >lets through a certain range of frequencies and eliminates the others, by >the time the delayed signal is fed back to the input the filter will have >shifted frequency sufficiently to prevent the signal building up into that >nasty howl. Matthias replied: Did you try to use a compressor, maybe even in the feed back path? >Depending on the original sound and by adjusting various parameters you can >achieve a number of weird and wonderful effects. Play a big chord using >nice thick pad and pass it through the feedback loop and you get a >beautiful evolving swirl of sound as the various harmonics are picked out >and emphasized. Take a techno stab, played in time with the delay and your >riff takes on a life of it's own. Or a few Rhodes chords add a really >spacey dimension to a dub track. White noise textures also work well with >the feedback loop adding a lot of movement to the sound. And of course with >an electric guitar, which is what I first made the effect for, your average >solo will take right off into space! I would really like to hear this. I just tried to implement on the PCM80 with the M-Band algorithm, but it failed, because the filters have no Q and the feed back is limited to 100%, so its just fading filtered, which is nice, but not what you are telling us. And I am too lazy to create an analog external feedback :-) The Resonant Chord algorithm create something similar, right Greg? To which I reply: The Resonant Chord algorithm in the PCM80 does foldback delay voices through filters in the manner that fish has described. Best regards, Greg Hogan Lexicon Customer Service Phone 617-280-0372 FAX 617-280-0499 email: ghogan@lexicon.com From ???@??? Mon Feb 10 09:03:17 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 10 09:00:48 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vtz5x-0007YO-00; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 09:00:45 -0800 Message-Id: <199702101650.LAA20556@acc.haverford.edu> Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 11:53:16 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: jspeer@haverford.edu Subject: MID-ATLANTIC LOOP SHOW Resent-Message-ID: <"3b5Cl.A.BuG.JM1_y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2087 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 09:00:45 -0800 X-UIDL: 394729b3b5ad18164c3c029acda2395e Exciting event! Mark it on the calendar: *********************************** PHILADELPHIA/MID-ATLANTIC LOOP SHOW Saturday, March 22, starting 7:30 pm @ LionFish Coffeehouse, 614 N. 2nd St.,Phila PA (215) 829-9103, half block north of Spring Garden St. Probable cover: $5 (not set in stone) Prepare yourselves for an evening of looped music, all members of Looper's Delight mailing list. In no particular order: * Paul Mimlitsch: Chapman stick * Accidents Will Happen: guitar/bass/drum trio featuring Paul Poplawski * Charles Cohen: solo Buchla synth * Fingerpaint: trio from DC featuring Patrick Smith Come meet the performers and their equipment! I'll tell you right now that if this show is a success, we can expect to see more "Loop Shows" in the future. Right now they have no idea what I talked them into booking. This place has an absolutely great dinner menu, coffee, desserts, etc. The management would love to see a good turn out of food-buying audience, and that's really their measure of success. So this is my appeal for support of live loop music in Philly, something I'd personally like to see a lot more of. Please e-mail me with any questions concerning the show, directions, anything! More information and reminder notice will follow closer to the date. Jim jspeer@haverford.edu ********************** My Town: Philadelphia! From ???@??? Mon Feb 10 09:29:35 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 10 09:18:22 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vtzMx-00015p-00; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 09:18:19 -0800 Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 12:18:34 -0500 (EST) From: David Talento X-Sender: legion@omni1 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Live Show Phila, Tuesday Feb 11th... In-Reply-To: <199702101650.LAA20556@acc.haverford.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"evUvBC.A.6v.Ze1_y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2088 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 09:18:19 -0800 X-UIDL: 49a6427b6f253ef4041dad4964f9e438 Overdrive Date Master, Philly's Avant/Psychdelic/Indie/whatever band will be playing a free show at the Trocdero tomorrow night. Special guest the Hale Bopp Noise Ensemble open. Overdrive Date Master use tape loops, delays, tube record players, effects, analogue beatboxes and guitar synths, as well as children's toys and a windup monkey triggering live percussion. this show will feautre all new instrumnets and a special guest violinist from eth Lost art of Puppet Orchestra. Sets start at 10pm. No cover, 21+ The trocadero is located at 10th and Arch street in Philadelphia. Come out a loop your asses off... -------- Help Wanted Productions - Bringing you the best in organic electronic and sweaty rock music since we started. Http://www.voicenet.com/~legion Available next month: "The Feedback Machine" a new studio album from the Music for Isolation Tanks live lineup. Only $6.00 postpaid! From ???@??? Tue Feb 11 19:56:25 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 10 09:39:23 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vtzhJ-0002pc-00; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 09:39:21 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 09:29:27 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Midi Sample Dump Resent-Message-ID: <"RWm6UD.A.xEC.vu1_y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2089 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 09:39:21 -0800 X-UIDL: 91265a817ad0ac130766dcd902145611 At 8:29 AM 2/10/97, Floyd Miller wrote: >At 11:18 PM 2/9/97 -0800, Kim wrote: > >>Best not to try the k2000...it won't be supported in the echoplex sample >>dump for a while, because it requires some special features that we have to >>add. If I remember right, the k2000 adds 200 to the sample #, and doesn't >>subtract it out again when you try to send back to the echoplex. The >>current echoplex soft doesn't like that much. It'll be there eventually. >> > >Ahhh. Yes the K2K does that. What does the Echoplex do with the >sample#? Does it use it to say which loop # ? Yes, I think that's right. Eric would know, since he's now written this code at least twice. Are you reading this Eric? When the new sample dump is finished, it will let you arbitrarily select loop#, sample#, and ID#. And no, I can't tell you exactly when that will be available, but progress is being made! kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Feb 11 19:56:26 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 10 09:40:38 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vtziW-0002xJ-00; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 09:40:36 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970210173355.00692e74@mail.ndirect.co.uk> X-Sender: fish@mail.ndirect.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 17:35:06 +0000 To: "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" From: Fish Subject: Re: Another new member Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"h4eE6C.A.RVC.bx1_y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2090 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 09:40:36 -0800 X-UIDL: aa7a0e90cad049b496723c83a6d926aa At 09:31 10/02/97 -0500, Hogan, Greg wrote: >The Resonant Chord algorithm create something similar, right Greg? > >To which I reply: The Resonant Chord algorithm in the PCM80 does foldback >delay voices through filters in the manner that fish has described. The big limitation of my S2000 setup is that you're relying on an LFO to sweep the filter. Having control over the cutoff gives you far more creative possibilities. I've emulated the effect on a SY85 synth which has an effect called DFLTWAH (Yamaha don't provide any explanations for their acronymns). It's simply: delay->2 parallel filters->fedback to delay You get to assign one controller to modulate the cutoff frequency of the 2 filters (it can have a negative or positive effect on either filter), each filter has it's own cut-off point and resonance. So you setup the loop with max feedback and keep the controller moving to shift the filters. If you leave your foot controller still for too long the feedback gets louder (boosted by the Q). The swirly distortion textures you get at this point are kind of cool. Also, if you set the filters some distance apart and set the controller to have a positive effect on one, and negative on the other, you can play with 2 sets of harmonics and get some interesting effects as they crossover one another. This one needs a lot of fine tuning, but it's worth experimenting with. The SY85 doesn't have an analogue input so I'm sorry for you guitarists, but I'm only telling you in case you guys want to find a way to recreate it. Cheers Fish Fish fish@ndirect.co.uk http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~fish From ???@??? Tue Feb 11 19:56:28 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 10 10:56:56 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vu0uL-00010I-00; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 10:56:53 -0800 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199702101852.KAA12190@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: Multitrack looper (was: Loop features, FX processor) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 10:52:01 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <15193.199702101226@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> from "Dr M. P. Hughes" at Feb 10, 97 12:26:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jRdOND.A.Cj.b52_y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2091 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 10:56:53 -0800 X-UIDL: 7920b7486ab5c4415a43a828ba45b7b5 > Michael: > Naah... A MAC on top of a marshall stack does _not_ look good.... A Marshall stack would not be good anyway for the kind of looping I'd want to do, which would require more of a flat frequency response from my amplifier(s). A Mac Powerbook is small enough to be conveniently portable for gigs. Paolo From ???@??? Tue Feb 11 19:56:31 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 10 11:22:02 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vu1Ie-0002xq-00; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 11:22:00 -0800 Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 14:16:56 -0500 (EST) From: PainPete@aol.com Message-ID: <970210134910_1247384264@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Hello All (& is anyone still using Reel-to-Reel?) Resent-Message-ID: <"lrTglB.A.-eC.rR3_y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2092 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 11:22:00 -0800 X-UIDL: a0e17d8ac9f188c4aaf472e6552df1e2 Dear Fellow Loopy People, My name is Pete and I'm new to this list. I just wanted to say how happy I am that such a list exists. I've never felt much community spirit in loop-land, I've felt like I've been on a nearly deserted island. So it's nice to meet you all. Though primarily a guitarist, when I get sick of the guitar I start looping anything that moves, like synths, the sound of crumpling paper, garbage can lids banging, etc etc...I live in Seattle, hope to start arranging live shows soon to celebrate my fuctional-after-several-years-of-not-functioning guitar rig. I think the first loop I ever conciously heard was Lucier's "I am Sitting in a Room", though my loop obsession began with Fripp's "Let the Power Fall" and then later "The Heavenly Music Corporation" which I love dearly to this day. At the time I was fortunate to have access to two reel-to-reel decks and began experimenting with my own loops. The early loops were pretty much based on Frippertronics (guitar with pentationic minor scales) which rapidly got out of control as the reel decks were not in particularly good shape and getting the feedback just right was very hard. I usually got something like the end of "I am Sitting in a Room" pretty quickly. But I really dug that anyway. My nickname back then (and to some extent now) was "Painful" because I once did a radio show at the University of Vermont called "Swimming Pains in the Head", a sort of experimental noise journey which not coincidentally gave many people of non-like mind headaches. That title only lasted about six months, but the nickname stuck. So as a sort of joke, I started calling my loops "Paintronics" as opposed to "Frippertronics" (which I figure is also a bit of a joke on Fripp's part...) - That name stuck too, and sometimes for good reason it seems. (Is anyone else out there still using tape decks for this?) So nowadays I use a pair of Otari MX 5050 reel decks when I can get access to them (and try to get the best possible sound out of them too). I hope to buy my own sometime - Tape is my preferred medium - But on my guitar rack I have an already loaded-for-bear electronics setup fed through (don't laugh please) the Digitech Time Machine 8-second delay. It doesn't sound great but I have my Vortex after that in the chain which fleshes out the sound nicely (though I wish it could go first without sacrificing the nice stereo). I'd like the sound quality of the newer loopers but can't afford and don't quite trust them yet. (BTW glad to hear the Vortex has become an almost "cult" item due to its untimely and undeserved demise. However that does give us who are fortunate enough to have one a bit of a unique edge, does it not? I bet they'll be sold for vast sums in used stores as the legend grows, like old synths. Who knows?) Is there anyone out there into trading tapes? We talk much but the idea is to share music... Pete From ???@??? Tue Feb 11 19:56:34 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 10 12:05:44 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vu1yv-0006MM-00; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 12:05:41 -0800 Message-ID: <32FF78CE.61A3@sj.bigger.net> Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 11:36:46 -0800 From: Roland Eberle Reply-To: roland@sj.bigger.net Organization: System User X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-KIT (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Hello All (& is anyone still using Reel-to-Reel?) References: <970210134910_1247384264@emout10.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"DdxV8C.A.siF.D53_y"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2093 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 12:05:41 -0800 X-UIDL: eaad7ab78ce759124144ef5896d14dcf PainPete@aol.com wrote: > I think the first loop I ever conciously heard was Lucier's "I am Sitting in > a Room", For me it was Row Row Row your boat... I never got over it. Merrily merrily merrily merrily...life IS but a dream. From ???@??? Tue Feb 11 19:57:08 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 10 21:35:37 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vuAsG-0007Xy-00; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 21:35:24 -0800 Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 00:23:56 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199702110523.AAA27582@shell.monmouth.com> X-Sender: andre@monmouth.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: andre Subject: Re: MID-ATLANTIC LOOP SHOW Resent-Message-ID: <"6C5XPB.A.uYG.TKAAz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2094 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 21:35:24 -0800 X-UIDL: d6b350789d61510e20bc3ae337964e8d i'll certainly be tryin' to make this one !! good luck regardless....! andre (east) > From ???@??? Wed Feb 12 10:32:45 1997 >From kflint Wed Feb 12 02:45:54 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vucCG-00022j-00; Wed, 12 Feb 1997 02:45:52 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 19:25:41 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: Stream on brother Resent-Message-ID: <"tVOd0.A.cwB.d5ZAz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2096 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 02:45:52 -0800 X-UIDL: 879e1bf959d13c37e066a47d41b5bb69 Yo, Is the streaming audio files connected yet? I want to milk the ambient amd space music lists.........always looking to promo... Yur publicist, Chip :-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_- Patrick Smith ..... Patrick@his.com .... ... .. . *** *** ** Fingerpaint http://www.his.com/~patrick/FNGP.html *** ** ^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^ ^^ Solaris Guitar Trio .. .. . .. .http://www.xdc.com/solaris/ :-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_ From ???@??? Tue Feb 11 19:57:32 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 11 10:14:04 1997 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vuMiK-0000XM-00; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 10:13:56 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 10:54:49 MST Subject: Re: Midi Sample Dump Message-ID: <19970211.110302.6735.1.slot_head@juno.com> References: <3.0.32.19970210000938.0068fcbc@omni2.voicenet.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.15 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-5,15-17 From: slot_head@juno.com (bret w moreland) Resent-Message-ID: <"VLJGJC.A.kRH.ZVLAz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2095 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 10:13:56 -0800 X-UIDL: c2bfe125b925dac043130f9106b8791a Floyd wrote: But I guess unless the loop is really killer and irreplaceable, it may not be worth trying to save a 50 second loop via sample dump.. A digital audio recording might be good enough. Floyd, I find it quite practical and decent fidelity. I sometimes use a Dat recorder to save and reuse loops. I simply record the loop to Dat repeating it a few times so on playback I can get myself in sync for initiating record on the Plex or Jamman. Also by having several repeating copies of each loop I can verify how good I synced the copy from Dat back to Looper because after the copy both the Looper and the Dat are playing back simultaneously. If I did a good job syncing it sounds like a single source. If not it flanges, or worse echos. Best of all, it only takes a few reps of the loops to accomplish the dump to Dat and back again, rather than hours. bret From ???@??? Thu Feb 13 00:45:24 1997 >From kflint Wed Feb 12 17:19:23 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vuppa-0006t4-00; Wed, 12 Feb 1997 17:19:22 -0800 Message-ID: <33026AAB.58F9@AOL.com> Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 20:13:15 -0500 From: David Kirkdorffer X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: VORTEX -- FAQ & REAL PERSONS' USERS' GUIDE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gb1MvC.A.4_F.xqmAz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2098 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 17:19:22 -0800 X-UIDL: df8a5da5247f49ab6175830d060dc9d4 Hi folks. It's been a great thing to read the digests archive. It's a truely great way to catch up with loopy issues. Now -- I'm getting a VORTEX (at $160, how could I not?!). I've looked at the manual and I can see it's not going to be very helpful. And I've checked the presently existing VORTEX info at the Loopers-Delight Web Zone. It's quite good -- but seesm to stop... Questions: 1) Is there more VORTEX info that hasn't yet been "gathered" into this VORTEX summary zone? If so, are there plans to add it soon? 2) I remember reading somewhere there may be a "suppliment" to the little flip manual Lexicon supplies... Anyone got one that can be copied? 3) Any other VORTEX learning tips anyone care to share? Ever thankful this list of loopists exists. Looping in Boston. David Kirkdorffer SayAaahh@AOL.COM P.S. Any Boston loopists wanna get a "loop-a-ganza" together and play at upstairs at The Middle East? From ???@??? Thu Feb 13 10:07:24 1997 >From kflint Thu Feb 13 01:45:08 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vuxj2-00049X-00; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 01:45:08 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 01:39:28 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: VORTEX -- FAQ & REAL PERSONS' USERS' GUIDE Resent-Message-ID: <"ZyYr3D.A.LzD.DIuAz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2100 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 01:45:08 -0800 X-UIDL: d1576fa0731870c50c10a7fa787d35cb At 8:13 PM 2/12/97, David Kirkdorffer wrote: >Questions: > >1) Is there more VORTEX info that hasn't yet been "gathered" into this >VORTEX summary zone? If so, are there plans to add it soon? That's one of the more popular spots on the site, actually. Seems to attract the search engines. There's a lot more uncollected vortex info in the archives, I believe. It's waiting for some enthused vortex owner to decide that they would really like to give something back to the vortex community by taking on this task..... well? any volunteers? kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Feb 13 10:07:58 1997 >From kflint Thu Feb 13 09:14:16 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vv4jd-0005gM-00; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 09:14:13 -0800 Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 12:05:53 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199702131705.MAA22286@shell.monmouth.com> X-Sender: andre@monmouth.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: andre Subject: for greg of lex Resent-Message-ID: <"2PpltC.A.WtE.Wo0Az"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2101 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 09:14:13 -0800 X-UIDL: a7958959e759c7f83b199b151d668e5b hey greg hogan.. wussup with your email - i couldn't send you directly. it keep looping back to me ! virtual echo...anyway - thanks a million - got the package in the mail. You rule !! >andre (east) From ???@??? Thu Feb 13 10:08:13 1997 >From kflint Thu Feb 13 10:06:31 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vv5YE-00021V-00; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 10:06:30 -0800 Date: Thu, 13 Feb 97 11:55:36 CST From: "Todd Madson" Message-Id: <9701138558.AA855863810@ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, ToddM@lasermaster.com Subject: Re[2]: VORTEX -- FAQ & REAL PERSONS' USERS' GUIDE Resent-Message-ID: <"TDfcK.A.kgB.ic1Az"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2102 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 10:06:30 -0800 X-UIDL: 974b6e0ae06ec328f765145ef5d3ef76 Kim: Hello - Todd here again, remember me? I'm the guy who's going to be HTML'ing the applications notes for Vortex. I've been extremely busy at work after my week or so absence due to the flu and all my projects have been put into disarray. I was going to actually be having the applications notes and/or my collected observations be an unofficial FAQ of sorts. The basics of this are still at http://www.waste.org/~crash/index.html however, I need to get cracking and finish it. Again, it's been a back burner project due to the way life is turning at the moment. It's also put my song for the CD on the back burner as well. Ack! Anyway, I'll soon get to work on collected info for the site as well as a FAQ of sorts. Todd Madson _______________________________________________________________________________ Subject: Re: VORTEX -- FAQ & REAL PERSONS' USERS' GUIDE From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com at Internet Date: 2/13/97 3:40 AM >Message was resent -- Original recipients were: To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com-------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------- At 8:13 PM 2/12/97, David Kirkdorffer wrote: >Questions: > >1) Is there more VORTEX info that hasn't yet been "gathered" into this >VORTEX summary zone? If so, are there plans to add it soon? That's one of the more popular spots on the site, actually. Seems to attract the search engines. There's a lot more uncollected vortex info in the archives, I believe. It's waiting for some enthused vortex owner to decide that they would really like to give something back to the vortex community by taking on this task..... well? any volunteers? kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Received: from spica.LaserMaster.Com by ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com (SMTPLINK V2.10.08) ; Thu, 13 Feb 97 03:40:38 CST Return-Path: Received: from ferret (ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6]) by spica.LaserMaster.Com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA12050 for ; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 03:51:54 -0600 (CST) Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vuxhu-00047I-00; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 01:43:58 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 01:39:28 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: VORTEX -- FAQ & REAL PERSONS' USERS' GUIDE Resent-Message-ID: <"ZyYr3D.A.LzD.DIuAz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2100 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: ToddM@lasermaster.com Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 01:43:58 -0800 From ???@??? Fri Feb 14 02:44:01 1997 >From kflint Thu Feb 13 20:57:06 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vvFhn-0001rk-00; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 20:57:03 -0800 Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 20:53:00 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: cmeyer@ni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: cmeyer@cybmotion.com (Chris Meyer) Subject: synchroVortex Resent-Message-ID: <"4li0nC.A.eiB.5--Az"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2104 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 20:57:03 -0800 X-UIDL: 1a35e5d73aae5879d7409e2f2ffc26b9 As a cross between the DIN-sync and more-on-the-Vortex threads... In my live set-up, I already have the sampler/drum machine (a Studio 440 with sampled percussion loops, triggered at the head with the on-board sequencer) set up to put out a logic pulse on every downbeat. It has many clock divisions on output too. I'd like to get the Vortex to auto-synchronize to it, without relying on my frenzied taps in the middle of a song. Anyone come up with a nice logic pulse to switch closure circuit that will work with the Vortex's tap pedal input? We were thinking a relay might be the very best... - CM P.S. Re: Interesting things in feedback loops: I am about to receive a Sherman Filterbank, a weird dual filter with envelopes, envelope follower, LFO, ring modulator, and distortion to process sampled loops etc. as they repeat; a device like this might be interesting to make loops evolve as well. A more sane (and stereo!) version of such a box might also be the Mutronics Mutator - check out www.bluesystems.com/products/outboard/mutator.html for some info. \ Chris & Trish Meyer/CyberMotion: Motion Graphics Design & Effects \ cmeyer@cybmotion.com & cybertrish@aol.com fax: (818) 598 3957 \__________________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Fri Feb 14 02:44:04 1997 >From kflint Thu Feb 13 22:50:35 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vvHTe-0000Iz-00; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 22:50:34 -0800 Message-ID: <3303FE14.12E@bgsuvax.bgsu.edu> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 01:54:28 -0400 From: Jeff Schwartz X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Mutator References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fcpVGB.A.GG.9pABz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2105 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 22:50:34 -0800 X-UIDL: 00dd51c957b71b173ca1aa2261f200cb Yow! I just checked out the Mutator home page, and it seems like an insane piece of gear, like a Lovetone Meatball and a Vortex combined! I have extremely little knowledge of analog synthesis, despite owning & loving a Roland GR-300, so I don't really comprehend all that this thang can do. Any suggestions for books or web sites to teach me the difference between a VCO and a VCA without hurting my tiny brain? How about ways for a poor Ohioan to get his hands on the crazy effects units the Brits seem to be pumping out? -- Jeff Schwartz jeffs@bgnet.bgsu.edu http://www.bgsu.edu/~jeffs/main.html From ???@??? Thu Feb 13 11:14:05 1997 >From kflint Thu Feb 13 11:03:39 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vv6RV-0006Zv-00; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 11:03:37 -0800 Message-Id: <9702131902.AA04603@beryllium.lexicon.com> Priority: urgent Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 01:56:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: RE: for greg of lex To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V3.50c)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"FkATu.A.34F.GT2Az"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2103 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 11:03:37 -0800 X-UIDL: b3c33f8cc9d4bcb4c65d5e2a049c4983 ---------- From: Loopers-Delight[SMTP:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com] Sent: Thursday, February 13, 1997 1:57 PM To: Loopers-Delight Subject: for greg of lex hey greg hogan.. wussup with your email - i couldn't send you directly. it keep looping back to me ! virtual echo...anyway - thanks a million - got the package in the mail. You rule !! >andre (east) Hi Andre, What address were you sending to? I have not been aware of any problems. Thanks, Greg From ???@??? Sat Feb 15 02:39:08 1997 >From kflint Fri Feb 14 18:11:49 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vvZbQ-0000yI-00; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 18:11:48 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 20:27:13 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: Re: Mutator Resent-Message-ID: <"5EzXKD.A._k.aoRBz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2106 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 18:11:48 -0800 X-UIDL: 187a84630ad909fc9878b0a87218ac70 On 2/14/97 Jeff Schwartz wrote: >Yow! I just checked out the Mutator home page, and it seems like an >insane piece of gear, like a Lovetone Meatball and a Vortex combined! Tell us Jeff, where is this Mutator home page???? While your surfing you might check out the Fingerpaint site at: www.his.com/~patrick/FNGP.html Any feedback is appreciated. Peace, patrick :-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_- Patrick Smith ..... Patrick@his.com .... ... .. . *** *** ** Fingerpaint http://www.his.com/~patrick/FNGP.html *** ** ^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^ ^^ Solaris Guitar Trio .. .. . .. .http://www.xdc.com/solaris/ :-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_ From ???@??? Sat Feb 15 02:39:11 1997 >From kflint Fri Feb 14 19:35:26 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vvauL-0005q7-00; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 19:35:25 -0800 Message-ID: <330521C4.1A39@bgsuvax.bgsu.edu> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 22:39:00 -0400 From: Jeff Schwartz X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Mutator References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rJ4fr.A.LRF.u4SBz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2107 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 19:35:25 -0800 X-UIDL: d71905f91e55cd24dd6c81c4322bd077 The mutator home page is at http://www.bluesystems.com/products/outboard/mutator.html Patrick Smith wrote: > > On 2/14/97 Jeff Schwartz wrote: > > >Yow! I just checked out the Mutator home page, and it seems like an > >insane piece of gear, like a Lovetone Meatball and a Vortex combined! > > Tell us Jeff, where is this Mutator home page???? > -- Jeff Schwartz jeffs@bgnet.bgsu.edu http://www.bgsu.edu/~jeffs/main.html From ???@??? Sat Feb 15 15:26:53 1997 >From kflint Sat Feb 15 09:35:50 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vvo1d-0001kx-00; Sat, 15 Feb 1997 09:35:49 -0800 X-Sender: vajra1@pop3.mho.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 10:32:52 +0100 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: vajra1@mho.net (Robert Phelps) Subject: Jest whut the heck duz he be meanin' Ma? Resent-Message-ID: <"KhhqOD.A.6hB.pNfBz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2109 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 09:35:49 -0800 X-UIDL: 420310777065dd420f8db86c2b3cf5ba Hi David. Mebbe you could comment on this issue on the looplist or even to me. It's a confusing deal to so many............................................... Posted on the looplist 1/15 From: andre ................................................................................ ps - hope you all saw mr torn's home studio in the latest "musician" mag - the one on touring with metalli-U2 on the cover... I love him to death - but why does DT go out of his way to point out "NO MIDI" in a room littered with samplers, MIDI KEYBOARD, hi-tech digital effects, footswitches, Computers, drum machines, etc. am i missing something ??? aren't these all tools - useable by everyone from Madonna to Wendy Carlos with differing results ?? who cares anyway - everything past the naked sound of a voice and clapping hands is technologically based, let's not fool ourselves, fool ourselves, fool, fo,f............. Thanx. Looping away in Boulder Co.,B.P. From ???@??? Sat Feb 15 15:26:52 1997 >From kflint Sat Feb 15 09:20:28 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vvnml-00016O-00; Sat, 15 Feb 1997 09:20:27 -0800 Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 12:16:53 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199702151716.MAA26732@shell.monmouth.com> X-Sender: andre@monmouth.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: andre Subject: Finally Fully Vortexed!!/ Midi-izing it ??? Resent-Message-ID: <"c5LUn.A.Y4.m-eBz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2108 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 09:20:27 -0800 X-UIDL: 99cc274607d03f74091aa335949a08b3 holy crap, loopman !! i finally got my Vortex manual and footswitch. I had been using the V and loving it ANYWAY - but i have entered the world of using my morph pedal and finally running in stereo (Esssential, essential!!) WOW - this unit is ridiculous. I mean - as i said i loved it already - the warm tone quality, transparency, and wide range of sounds. i mean - it has that oomph - that seems to only come from good footpedals (boss esp. ) no matter how expensive your rack gets. but this thing has it. Also - stupid stupid me - i didn't realize you could "step" thru programs !! even tho it says STEP in the back panel (Duh). But i will propose some possibilities for the midi-izing discussion. (by the way , fearful anti-midi few, MIDI is simply a glorified switching protocol - an overgrown pulse-type footswitch, usually used to tell a device to turn a note on/off, vol incrementation, whatever. And the all-important "program-change" well- i have to descend into my lab - and try this - but i'll report back to you ... would the Scholz rockman Octopus work to induce a "step up" in the vortex ?? I haven't used mine in a while but it has 8 outputs, which can be toggled on the front panel. Each combination of 8 ons/offs can be saved as a program. Also - i hava a midi- midigator - (any owners out there ?? web info?) and i remember seeing in their accessories info that you could order a series of different modules that could send out various "analog" pulses to do a variety of switching. i bet one of these would work - any probably with any midi pedal at that - anyone know where these could be scarde up ?? is midigator (Lake Butler) back in biz - or is someone responsible for the catalog inventory ??? Help !! peace- andre , east ps - hope you all saw mr torn's home studio in the latest "musician" mag - the one on touring with metalli-U2 on the cover... I love him to death - but why does DT go out of his way to point out "NO MIDI" in a room littered with samplers, MIDI KEYBOARD, hi-tech digital effects, footswitches, Computers, drum machines, etc. am i missing something ??? aren't these all tools - useable by everyone from Madonna to Wendy Carlos with differing results ?? who cares anyway - everything past the naked sound of a voice and clapping hands is technologically based, let's not fool ourselves, fool ourselves, fool, fo,f From ???@??? Sat Feb 15 15:26:54 1997 >From kflint Sat Feb 15 10:21:52 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vvokB-0003jO-00; Sat, 15 Feb 1997 10:21:51 -0800 Message-Id: <199702151819.KAA06687@mailtod-1.alma.webtv.net> From: inti@webtv.net (Carlos Carrillo) Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 10:19:25 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Finally Fully Vortexed!!/ Midi-izing it ??? Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV 1.0) Resent-Message-ID: <"iGoB2B.A.RYD.y4fBz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2110 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 10:21:51 -0800 X-UIDL: 148f7b7a499effc774d57c630ef369ee I am using the Vortex with a Roland GP100 preamp. This preamp has the ability to send out 2 distinct control messages which in conjunction with a "Y" cable and footpedal can be used to engage either the bypass-step or tap-A/B switchers using midi controller messages. By the way, I also use a VG-8 and a Boomerang and am very excited by the sounds I have been able to create and manipulate. My three main sources of noise are a Fender Strat with a built-in GK2A pickup, an old Rickenbacker Lapsteel, and my all time favorite Ebow. From ???@??? Sun Feb 16 02:44:37 1997 >From kflint Sun Feb 16 00:06:41 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vw1cO-0000Iz-00; Sun, 16 Feb 1997 00:06:40 -0800 Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 08:05:32 GMT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970216080147.3ecfa820@musart.sonnet.co.uk> X-Sender: mhewins@musart.sonnet.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Mark J HEWINS Subject: Consumer products Resent-Message-ID: <"fPvkxC.A.7E.q7rBz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2111 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 00:06:40 -0800 X-UIDL: 49aaeb8b5a4a9128bd622a376f2acd85 Hello all >ps - hope you all saw mr torn's home studio in the latest "musician" mag - >the one on touring with metalli-U2 on the cover... I love him to death - but >why does DT go out of his way to point out "NO MIDI" in a room littered with >samplers, MIDI KEYBOARD, hi-tech digital effects, footswitches, >Computers,drum machines, etc. am i missing something ??? aren't these all >tools -useable by everyone from Madonna to Wendy Carlos with differing >results ??who cares anyway - everything past the naked sound of a voice and >clappinghands is technologically based, let's not fool ourselves, fool >ourselves,fool, fo,f............. One could comment that all electronic sound processing out of 'off the shelf' black boxes isn't experimental. Just marketing and consumerism. But it's all fun; and we shouldn't ever deny that. P&L>M MARK HEWINS < http://www.musart.co.uk/hewins.htm > (try the new CHORD PICKER) < http://www.musart.co.uk/chords.htm > From ???@??? Sun Feb 16 02:44:38 1997 >From kflint Sun Feb 16 01:15:29 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vw2gy-000202-00; Sun, 16 Feb 1997 01:15:28 -0800 Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 04:11:31 -0500 (EST) From: BobbyZZZ@aol.com Message-ID: <970216041128_983981295@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: hello and greetings to the loop list... Resent-Message-ID: <"UZ4HqC.A.CxB.A-sBz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2112 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 01:15:28 -0800 X-UIDL: 12bffed1dd9af9147a7fd4ef5adc032e hi! i am a guitarist named bobby devito, and currently record and perform with an ambient electronic guitar project called LVX NOVA. i have been enjoying the list so far, and have always loved looping and working with delays since the 70's. please take a graze at our LVX NOVA website at: http://virtu.sar.usf.edu/~devito to see and hear what our current CD sounds like. we are being signed at this very moment, and our CD will be avaliable worldwide in about 8 weeks...but if anyone on the list wants a copy, i have less than 100 of the advance CD's still left from the first pressing for only $5. it's 72 minutes of guitar and analog synths, exotic percussion, and serpentine bass. i am currently trying to get my live rig together and am having a hard time deciding between the Oberheim Echoplex and the TC 2290 delay for my looping needs. anyone like to help a newbie on the list? may peace and happiness rain down on you all :-) bobby devito/lvx nova From ???@??? Sun Feb 16 13:44:35 1997 >From kflint Sun Feb 16 11:15:01 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vwC3A-00021O-00; Sun, 16 Feb 1997 11:15:00 -0800 Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 14:10:58 -0500 (EST) From: BobbyZZZ@aol.com Message-ID: <970216140918_138288507@emout18.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: just a thought.... Resent-Message-ID: <"h6Ckb.A.WtB.Dw1Bz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2113 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 11:15:00 -0800 X-UIDL: 071530d040edd8ffb4454d28d1ea71de hello again all! i noticed that one of my old friends is on the loop list here, mr. bob phelps up there in boulder, CO....i would heartily recommend that ANY guitarist/composer check out what BP has to say, his viewpoint and insight is really fresh and almost untainted from the "music biz"....as well as being a fine guitarist himself.....he and i went to college together, and performed in some unusual ensembles. and BP is also very helpful if any of you have any questions about some of the larger issues that surround us in this big impressionist painting we call LIFE...as well as MUSIC. rock on, BP! bobby devito lvx nova http://virtu.sar.usf.edu/~devito From ???@??? Tue Feb 18 00:55:04 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 17 11:48:08 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vwZ2k-0003Kw-00; Mon, 17 Feb 1997 11:48:06 -0800 Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 11:40:20 -0800 (PST) From: "A.S.P." To: Loophedz Subject: Musicianship, live technique, etc... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"9Xyd3B.A.JjC.iQLCz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2114 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 11:48:06 -0800 X-UIDL: 8727519511eb0ae6845365af541f17d3 Hello Loopers, I have some thoughts I'd like to share with you and I'd like to get your input on them, if you have any. First of all, when working with other musicians, how important is communication while playing, especially when all of the material is 90 to 100% improvised? I mean like giving each other cues, or just staying in touch with the other guy/guys to see where they're at. The reason I bring this up is that I've noticed that when I work with my new partner, that we almost never make eye contact and musically I'm finding it hard to connect - it seems like we're having two monologues rather than a conversation. I know that in some types of music this is desireable, but I can't imagine that this will have satisfying results when this is the only way people work together. Secondly: I'm beginning to understand breaks in composition. I mean dead spaces, quiet spaces, quieter spaces - increasing dynamic range. When we work together, one recipe we use is one person will do a complex drone, the other will do rhythmic sequential stuff. One problem I've been having is that the music just goes on and on and there aren't any breaks... it feels like a need to keep the music going no matter what, and this seems really tiring after a while, like "hey, we're trying to overload your circuits, relentlessly". I find it easier to work with people's attention when one takes down the levels and gives their brain a chance to breathe, then re-engaging them in the process. I'm very interested in how you loopers deal with this, since looping essentially means endless music. Romeo F. PS: A little side note - I was asked to provide some sound installations for an event I was also playing at. I decided to come up with some audio "fountains". I made a tape of my modular synthesizer, plus mixing in some other tape material. The idea was to play them on some custom tape decks that will play a cassette endlessly, in mono, not repeating the music for 4 hours. I also kept in mind that these "fountains" would be playing in quieter spaces, away from the main events where people might be relaxing or having conversations, so I made a point of letting the music play, but then recording - often minutes - of dead silence or very quiet passages. The music would stop as some fountains do periodically. I was hoping this would provide both entertainment and relaxation or refuge. From ???@??? Tue Feb 18 00:55:22 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 17 14:01:19 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vwb7a-0005GG-00; Mon, 17 Feb 1997 14:01:14 -0800 Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 16:52:48 -0500 (EST) From: RA336@aol.com Message-ID: <970217165247_2027214659@emout18.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: hi loopers Resent-Message-ID: <"v73AiC.A.ZbE.wNNCz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2115 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 14:01:14 -0800 X-UIDL: 9b016b44a208fd46b2189c1e45c97215 hey everybody... just back from a month in San Francisco where I was working on a record with producer Jerry Harrison... did buncha looping and gutteral guitar abuses abounded on this waht could be a very interesting record by irish singer Noella Hutton... guitar bud Joe Gore also attended and contributed some of his wonderling tremed-up peaksnuf... a joy to work with him and drummer Prairie Prince... also, had a chance to see Joe Gore's (one of them anyway) band "Oranj Symphonette" at the Great American Music Hall... they were really quite fabulous doing their head (and full body) nod to composer Henry Mancini... Oranj has a cd out which i will most highly recommend you get... all best, Robby From ???@??? Tue Feb 18 00:55:23 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 17 14:18:06 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vwbNr-0006qw-00; Mon, 17 Feb 1997 14:18:03 -0800 Message-Id: <199702172214.PAA28162@primenet.com> From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: Re: hi loopers Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 14:14:03 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3tkdiC.A.QFG.ygNCz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2116 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 14:18:03 -0800 X-UIDL: ce51a9fd6c90e6f93c47ba4e02a2ead7 > just back from a month in San Francisco where I was working on a record with > producer Jerry Harrison... Ask him if "The Red And The Black" will ever be released in the US, would you? It was his first solo effort, but it was only by virtue of being in England in '81 that I got a vinyl copy. I'd LOVE to get a CD with this on it, if not also the inevitable 'extras not included in the initial release' tracks. I was always dismayed that it was the only Talking Heads' member effort that DIDN'T get released in the States. I didn't know he was working on this coast... then again, (Talking) Heads being what they were/are/might be, who knows? Cheers! Stephen Goodman * Download The Loop Of The Week and more! EarthLight Studios * http://www.primenet.com/~sgoodman/Studios *--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From ???@??? Tue Feb 18 00:55:36 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 17 23:02:24 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vwjZG-0003OQ-00; Mon, 17 Feb 1997 23:02:22 -0800 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 01:55:33 -0500 From: Michael Peters Subject: RE: Musicianship, live technique, etc... To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Message-ID: <199702180155_MC2-1163-FE2D@compuserve.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"LFSMBC.A.i2C.yKVCz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2117 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 23:02:22 -0800 X-UIDL: 8421faee45b0ef3cd1c9cd36eed00dbc Romeo sez ... > it seems like we're having two monologues rather than a conversation. > One problem I've been having is that the music just goes on and on > and there aren't any breaks... > it feels like a need to keep the music going no matter what, and > this seems really tiring after a while, like "hey, we're trying to > overload your circuits, relentlessly". > I'm very interested in how you loopers deal with this, since looping > essentially means endless music. I haven't found a way to deal with this, but I recognize it as a problem as well ... Looping improvs with several loopers are essentially different from solo loops. I did a couple of live loops with 2 other loopers and we weren't really happy with the outcome just because of this ... no breaks etc. I guess it takes a lot of looping improv hours together to find ways to opening this up, and enabling open spaces and interesting dynamic changes to happen. Has anyone found good recipes? Michael Peters 100041.247@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters From ???@??? Tue Feb 18 00:55:38 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 18 00:35:24 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vwl1H-0000Ez-00; Tue, 18 Feb 1997 00:35:23 -0800 Message-ID: <33096999.67F6@gte.net> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 03:34:33 -0500 From: future perfect Reply-To: artmusic@gte.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Musicianship, live technique, etc... References: <199702180155_MC2-1163-FE2D@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"IyIM_B.A.YUH.WjWCz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2118 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 00:35:23 -0800 X-UIDL: 4a833fd420ceda3473875fa7813f42f8 Michael Peters wrote: > > Romeo sez ... > > > it seems like we're having two monologues rather than a conversation. > > One problem I've been having is that the music just goes on and on > > and there aren't any breaks... > > it feels like a need to keep the music going no matter what, and > > this seems really tiring after a while, like "hey, we're trying to > > overload your circuits, relentlessly". > > I'm very interested in how you loopers deal with this, since looping > > essentially means endless music. > > I haven't found a way to deal with this, but I recognize it as a problem as > well ... Looping improvs with several loopers are essentially different > from solo loops. I did a couple of live loops with 2 other loopers and we > weren't really happy with the outcome just because of this ... no breaks > etc. I guess it takes a lot of looping improv hours together to find ways > to opening this up, and enabling open spaces and interesting dynamic > changes to happen. Has anyone found good recipes? > > Michael Peters > > 100041.247@compuserve.com > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters One idea is to set predetermined time limits on pieces...bring an alarm clock, something to totally disrupt the flow. It is also imperative to listen to each other, the audience can tell if there is little or no interaction between the musicians, and if a partner is not interested in what you are playing, then its unlikely the audience will be too. When we play for an audience, the other musicians become the audience too. They listen, we react, the audience reacts and it helps the music along. Visual cues are imperative in improvised music, this is part of the interaction, and it shows we're listening to each other. From ???@??? Tue Feb 18 10:23:08 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 18 07:32:52 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vwrXH-0000A5-00; Tue, 18 Feb 1997 07:32:51 -0800 From: Kevin Simonson Message-Id: <199702181533.AA226010007@eagle.uis.edu> Subject: Jamman Upgrades To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 09:33:27 -0700 (CST) In-Reply-To: from "Chris Meyer" at Feb 13, 97 08:53:00 pm Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"Z-Hwj.A.USH.lrcCz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2119 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 07:32:51 -0800 X-UIDL: 9c6d141727de4a498db419e5c58db491 FYI: Rogue Music is selling the Jamman upgrade chips for 18$ a piece. They also take trades! -- Kevin Simonson * AS/400 Application Development Team University of Illinois-Springfield * Programmer / Analyst Computer Science, et al. * Norwest Mortgage, Inc. simonson@eagle.uis.edu * Springfield, IL From ???@??? Tue Feb 18 23:21:40 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 18 10:46:23 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vwuYY-0006So-00; Tue, 18 Feb 1997 10:46:22 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 11:04:29 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Musicianship, live technique, etc... Resent-Message-ID: <"FGe2E.A.JhF.rcfCz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2121 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 10:46:22 -0800 X-UIDL: 67f4b6770ca436fe23f2c9dcfd4140fc >Hello Loopers, > >I have some thoughts I'd like to share with you and I'd like to get your >input on them, if you have any. > These are great questions that any improvisor has to face, and the problems are made worse by the dense and often static nature of looping music. >First of all, when working with other musicians, how important is >communication while playing, especially when all of the material is 90 to >100% improvised? I mean like giving each other cues, or just staying in >touch with the other guy/guys to see where they're at. > For one thing, you don't have to look at each other to communicate. Ideally, you should be able to communicate all of your intentions entirely musically. That said, it doesn't always work. In my trio, with 2 musicians that I've played with intensely for 7 and 9 years respectively, we rarely look at each other, because we've learned to get to that "deep listening" space pretty quickly. Usually, we only communicate visually to start or end pieces. But it takes a long time to get to that kind of state with other musicians. When playing with people with whom I'm less familiar, I do tend to rely more on visual cues, body language, etc. >The reason I bring this up is that I've noticed that when I work with my >new partner, that we almost never make eye contact and musically I'm >finding it hard to connect - it seems like we're having two monologues >rather than a conversation. I know that in some types of music this is >desireable, but I can't imagine that this will have satisfying results >when this is the only way people work together. > You might consider a few exercises in improvisation. Some of these feel really forced and self-conscious when you first try them, and can be surprisingly difficult even for experienced musicians. The idea is to develop a set of tools for improvising, kind of like licks that you fall back on while thinking of your next brilliant statement in a solo. Here are some things off the top of my head that I've tried in various settings: Call and response: instead of both of you playing at the same time, try aalternating phrases, where one player initiates a phrase and the other completes it. Call and response is one of the deepest musical structures there is, it almost seems hard-wired into our consciousness, look at most traditional african music for example. You can set up call and response phrases while both of you are playing also, by alternating background/foreground roles within each phrase. This is a GREAT exercise to get you started listening to each other. Another thing that works is to set up a game plan for the improvised piece before you start. Try thinking of a structure, like alternating crescendos and decrescendos, or somthing. Try writing out improvisational structures away from your instruments and then playing them. This may feel counter-intuitive to the process of improvising, but the idea is to develop your sensitivity. Think of it as the equivalent of doing scales. Try setting up musical cues in advance, for example, say you decide on a certain phrase that when played by one of you triggers a dynamic change, or the end of the piece. >Secondly: I'm beginning to understand breaks in composition. I mean >dead spaces, quiet spaces, quieter spaces - increasing dynamic range. >When we work together, one recipe we use is one person will do a complex >drone, the other will do rhythmic sequential stuff. One problem I've been >having is that the music just goes on and on and there aren't any >breaks... it feels like a need to keep the music going no matter what, and >this seems really tiring after a while, like "hey, we're trying to >overload your circuits, relentlessly". > >I find it easier to work with people's attention when one takes down the >levels and gives their brain a chance to breathe, then re-engaging them in >the process. > Again, this comes down to a matter of listening and communicating. Again, by trying some explicit exercises in dynamics can help develop your sensitivity. You can try things like saying in advance, "We're going to change dynamic levels drastically every 60 seconds", and try to stick to that. Try doing some extreme dynamic playing, alternating playing as loud and hard as you can with playing as quietly and gently as you can. When you're doing the structure you mentioned above, with one player doing a drone and the other playing rhythms, try to introduce dynamic shifts within each of your parts, whether or not the other player tracks the shifts it will still make the music feel more varied. >I'm very interested in how you loopers deal with this, since looping >essentially means endless music. > >Romeo F. > >PS: A little side note - I was asked to provide some sound installations >for an event I was also playing at. I decided to come up with some audio >"fountains". I made a tape of my modular synthesizer, plus mixing in >some other tape material. The idea was to play them on some custom tape >decks that will play a cassette endlessly, in mono, not repeating the >music for 4 hours. I also kept in mind that these "fountains" would be >playing in quieter spaces, away from the main events where people might be >relaxing or having conversations, so I made a point of letting the music >play, but then recording - often minutes - of dead silence or very quiet >passages. The music would stop as some fountains do periodically. I was >hoping this would provide both entertainment and relaxation or refuge. This sounds like a very cool project! ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Tue Feb 18 23:21:51 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 18 12:46:25 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vwwQh-0000bw-00; Tue, 18 Feb 1997 12:46:23 -0800 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 15:36:01 -0500 (EST) From: KILLINFO@aol.com Message-ID: <970218153559_1348316320@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: RE: Mutator Resent-Message-ID: <"6H1vvD.A.2QH.3LhCz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2122 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 12:46:23 -0800 X-UIDL: 230c4271eda92f4f104640e9de5964c1 Geetings, Jeff asked: "Any suggestions for books or web sites to teach me the difference between a VCO and a VCA without hurting my tiny brain?" Well there are lots of places you could go for such info including some of the tomes available in "Mix Bookshelf." However, if all you want to know is the simple decoding of the above acronyms I suppose I'll try to be of help. They are terms from the dim, dark past of music synthesis. VCA = voltage controlled amplifier VCO = voltage controlled oscillator VCF = voltage controlled filter. Also you may run across... LFO = Low frequency oscillator. CV = Control voltage There are a whole host of these little 2 and 3-letter terms. I am not prepared at the moment to explain these much further (it would take much longer than I have on my rather short lunch break) except to say that they are some of the basic components of early electronic music synthesis. Use your imagination a little and it shouldn't be too hard to figure out how one would use these to create and control a sound *electronically*... Cheers, Ted From ???@??? Tue Feb 18 23:21:52 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 18 12:46:33 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vwwQn-0000cV-00; Tue, 18 Feb 1997 12:46:29 -0800 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 14:39:35 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199702182039.OAA01074@mail1.texas.net> X-Sender: sharkey@texas.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: sharkey@texas.net (james rhodes) Subject: Re: Jamman Upgrades Resent-Message-ID: <"w2waJC.A.XG.OOhCz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2123 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 12:46:29 -0800 X-UIDL: b34e14f60a6d997b83ac73fdbe4460e6 hi folks, im new to the loopers delight ,, and i have a couple of questions: 1) how do i contact Rogue Music? 2) how many chips does it take to max out the Jamman? Im a Chapmen Stick(R) player ,,who JUST recieved a Jamman TODAY... i havent really had the time today to play with it,,,but i'll be experimenting later though,,,any tips would be appreciated... thanks, james sharkey@texas.net >FYI: > >Rogue Music is selling the Jamman upgrade chips for 18$ a piece. >They also take trades! > >-- >Kevin Simonson * AS/400 Application Development Team >University of Illinois-Springfield * Programmer / Analyst >Computer Science, et al. * Norwest Mortgage, Inc. >simonson@eagle.uis.edu * Springfield, IL > > > From ???@??? Tue Feb 18 23:22:02 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 18 15:00:35 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vwyWX-0003dv-00; Tue, 18 Feb 1997 15:00:33 -0800 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 14:48:13 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199702182248.OAA19692@ridge.spiritone.com> From: TO: "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" X-Application: CyberCreek Mail Express Subject: Re: Musicianship, live technique, etc... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-3ubtC.A.47C.vMjCz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2124 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 15:00:33 -0800 X-UIDL: 1223fecbff0c8e6e940f3b02c65fb0f7 93 A.S.P. wrote: (snip) >First of all, when working with other musicians, how important is >communication while playing, especially when all of the material is 90 to >100% improvised? I mean like giving each other cues, or just staying in >touch with the other guy/guys to see where they're at. >The reason I bring this up is that I've noticed that when I work with my >new partner, that we almost never make eye contact and musically I'm >finding it hard to connect - it seems like we're having two monologues >rather than a conversation. I know that in some types of music this is >desirable, but I can't imagine that this will have satisfying results >when this is the only way people work together. This is a very interesting concept. I find that the more musically "in-tune" you are with the person you are working with, the more you can simply ignore them. The less "in-tune" you are, the more you have to make eye-contact etc. in order to flow well together. It is possible that you and your partner are simply not all that compatible. However, I also think that it is important to understand that compatibility is not vitally necessary in order to create great music. As long as you are both skilled, your individual skills can make up for it. But also keep in mind that for most styles of music, communication of some form or another (whether innate or practiced) *must* be obtained in order to have functionality. > >Secondly: I'm beginning to understand breaks in composition. I mean >dead spaces, quiet spaces, quieter spaces - increasing dynamic range. >When we work together, one recipe we use is one person will do a complex >drone, the other will do rhythmic sequential stuff. One problem I've been >having is that the music just goes on and on and there aren't any >breaks... it feels like a need to keep the music going no matter what, and >this seems really tiring after a while, like "hey, we're trying to >overload your circuits, relentlessly". >I find it easier to work with people's attention when one takes down the >levels and gives their brain a chance to breathe, then re-engaging them in >the process. >I'm very interested in how you loopers deal with this, since looping >essentially means endless music. > >Romeo F. You can put dead spaces into your loops. Most loopers, though, seem to go for the wall of sound ideal. In this instance, "dead" spaces can be obtained in a variety of ways, such as the dynamics of the sounds occurring *on top* of the loop, having a very short feedback of a delay based looped (i.e. only 2 or 3 repetitions of the loop), having dynamic changes *within* the loop (such as with a long loop of over 10 sec.), using a variety of tonal options within the loop (dark, long sounds with staccato brights tones, the use of more than one tone generating instrument {guitar, flute, synth, samples, percussion, etc.}) etc., etc., etc. > >PS: A little side note - I was asked to provide some sound installations >for an event I was also playing at. I decided to come up with some audio >"fountains". I made a tape of my modular synthesizer, plus mixing in >some other tape material. The idea was to play them on some custom tape >decks that will play a cassette endlessly, in mono, not repeating the >music for 4 hours. I also kept in mind that these "fountains" would be >playing in quieter spaces, away from the main events where people might be >relaxing or having conversations, so I made a point of letting the music >play, but then recording - often minutes - of dead silence or very quiet >passages. The music would stop as some fountains do periodically. I was >hoping this would provide both entertainment and relaxation or refuge. This is a *hip* idea. Can I steal it? 93 Rev. Doubt-Goat From ???@??? Tue Feb 18 10:23:11 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 18 08:07:57 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vws5B-0002Cz-00; Tue, 18 Feb 1997 08:07:53 -0800 Message-Id: <9702181604.AA13957@beryllium.lexicon.com> Priority: urgent Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 22:57:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: RE: Mutator To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V3.50c)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"nSqHk.A.JpB.gKdCz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2120 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 08:07:53 -0800 X-UIDL: 480aed4556b025bc45272ea37455a2ba Jeff asked: "Any suggestions for books or web sites to teach me the difference between a VCO and a VCA without hurting my tiny brain?" What I have found to be the best list of resources for all things ausio is the Mix bookshelf catalog which is available from them if you call 1-800-233-9604. Best regards, Greg From ???@??? Tue Feb 18 23:22:21 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 18 21:15:21 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vx4ND-0007CB-00; Tue, 18 Feb 1997 21:15:19 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 02:17:24 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Anti-MIDI looping Resent-Message-ID: <"18-CHB.A.VbG.UtoCz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2125 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 21:15:19 -0800 X-UIDL: f08e96d4de3dc9e160a1f5a9324539b0 >> The plex can sync to pulses, using the BeatSync input. Does that help? > >... I didn't even know there was a >"beat sync" input. really? I gotta get from behind my synths sometime and >see what's going on in the rack more often. If this is what I think it >may be it could proabbly take a +5 gate trigger from on of the old >CV/gate sequencers or analogue synths. > >Hmmm, it might be worth a try... Definitally. It also accepts smaller pulses or even audio triggers. Put the Sync parameter to IN. Tell us about the results! Matthias From ???@??? Tue Feb 18 23:22:22 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 18 21:16:10 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vx4Ny-0007Gq-00; Tue, 18 Feb 1997 21:16:06 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 02:18:18 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Some ideas... Resent-Message-ID: <"DpW01B.A.TgG.PuoCz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2126 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 21:16:06 -0800 X-UIDL: dd4ad12b69807cde6ad264432cf7ef4e jj said: >Pardon if this seems naive in the ways of loopage, but I'm still >very much captivated by one of the simple ideas Brian Eno >cooked up in making that first looping delay system for Fripp, >and that Eno still uses quite a bit (don't know about Fripp): >basically different loops of differing lengths played over >each other such that the ways they will interact musically >is unpredictable. I've had my Jamman for awhile, but have >only recently began to explore this via recording one loop >to one track on my DA-88, then another to another, etc., and >listening to the end results. The problem with this is that >there is not as much spontaneity as having them loop over >each other live (I'd *love* to see a looping machine do >that). Well, get together with another JamBeeing for a session! "non-musician" Dave wrote: *** Start out with four (for this example) simple drones(or sound loops or whatever) and periodically measure some measurable variable of the drones (some examples: 1) number of frequency components in the drone above/below x hertz 2) delay of the drone above or below its starting value 3) reverberation of the drone 4) distortion in the drone 5) volume). I don't even know if some of these variables can be measured but you get the idea. Anyway have the drones react to one another based on some set rules, like if drone1 has x number of frequency components above 5kHz then adjust the distortion of drone2 by some function represented by f1(x). Or if the delay of drone3 is y seconds, then add f2(y) frequency components to drone 4 whose values are given by f3(y, f2(y)). Maybe in addition to rules to alter the drones you have rules governing the death and birth of other drones. What you'd have instead of a few sound loops with different periods where the interest would be to see how they recombine to sound different at different times would be sound that actually react to other sounds and can give birth to a sound or hook up with another sound to kill a third sound off. Sure it's pretty much impossible or at least super-hyper daunting but it sure does make ya wet yer pants with the possibilities. *** This does not look realistic, but highly fascinating. The parameters would be others, but a frequency analisis could be a good start. jj again: >Anybody think this is remotely possible with the devices we have today? >Any other thoughts on how to put some fresh, (relatively) unpredictable >or at least systemic experimentation into looping? I think we will care about such type of creativity, once we have a multiple looper, recording on HD. In the computer, the user should be able to create such things. Maybe MAX will be expanded to use with audio files? My personal taste: I tried to create several kinds of automations for music, but I do not even like a (automatic) touch-wah, if I can have a (manual) pedal to control the frequency to my taste! Matthias From ???@??? Wed Feb 19 23:33:26 1997 >From kflint Wed Feb 19 10:01:57 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vxGL3-0004MN-00; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 10:01:53 -0800 Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 12:53:19 -0500 (EST) From: BobbyZZZ@aol.com Message-ID: <970219125319_1745979909@emout02.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Anti-MIDI looping Resent-Message-ID: <"QjLhv.A.GjD.h5zCz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2127 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 10:01:53 -0800 X-UIDL: 34d977103305b8c6103d17c996441398 In a message dated 2/19/97 1:41:49 AM, you wrote: >>> The plex can sync to pulses, using the BeatSync input. Does that help? >> >>... I didn't even know there was a >>"beat sync" input. really? I gotta get from behind my synths sometime and >>see what's going on in the rack more often. If this is what I think it >>may be it could proabbly take a +5 gate trigger from on of the old >>CV/gate sequencers or analogue synths. >> >>Hmmm, it might be worth a try... > >Definitally. It also accepts smaller pulses or even audio triggers. Put the >Sync parameter to IN. > >Tell us about the results! >Matthias hi all! i need to decide between the Echoplex and the TC 2290 for delays and looping for live work. has anyone been able to contact Oberheim for service lately? i have heard some SAD things about their support lately....can the echoplex sync up to MIDI clock? we only have one MIDI-CV converter in our band so far....any of you out there use the TC 2290??? i can get my hands on one for pretty cheap, and it's been memory expanded already...please help if you're out there :-) bobby devito/lvx nova http://virtu.sar.usf.edu/~devito From ???@??? Wed Feb 19 23:34:35 1997 >From kflint Wed Feb 19 15:06:50 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vxL67-0004ko-00; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 15:06:47 -0800 From: "Bailey, Jim" To: looppost Subject: Some of us never left Date:Wed, 19 Feb 1997 17:55:00 -0500 Message-ID: <330B8400@pcsmtp.cmail.southam.ca> Encoding: 26 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"AkXelD.A.A-D.lX4Cz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2128 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 15:06:47 -0800 X-UIDL: 9e3d06768e59e9a353a915a84fe6be50 > I don't know of anyone eager to return to the days of >twin reel-to-reels. >John Pollock Hey! I'm still doin' that street (check out my section on the list when it gets posted - I just sent it in last week). Mainly for financial reasons, but also because I don't do enough playing these days to justify the cost. Besides, I still like what happens to the sounds sometimes, not to mention the little surprises that occasionally come out of nowhere. OK, so those can be annoying as well, but I've seen many complaints here about the electronic gear too ;-). I've only really heard Fripp's work with the new type of kit, so can't really judge what others are doing with what's out there. Although his soundscapes and such are very interesting, they are still quite different from the old "Frippertronics" stuff. It's a bit like the difference between a Mellotron and a string synth, or sampler even. While both serve the same purpose, they sound considerably different (unless it's a sample of a Mellotron :-]). I don't want to sound like a ranter, or overly sensitive, but yes, there are still some of us out there. Didn't someone ask about this recently? If so, drop me a line. Jim B. From ???@??? Wed Feb 19 23:34:47 1997 >From kflint Wed Feb 19 20:07:37 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vxPnC-0004oy-00; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 20:07:34 -0800 Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 04:06:31 GMT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970220040234.384f8aac@musart.sonnet.co.uk> X-Sender: mhewins@musart.sonnet.co.uk (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Mark HEWINS Subject: Re: Some of us never left Resent-Message-ID: <"oKWhHD.A.oME.Yz8Cz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2129 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 20:07:34 -0800 X-UIDL: 0e7ffd2cee30470ba2c9e49f280a961e Heloopers >> I don't know of anyone eager to return to the days of >>twin reel-to-reels. >Hey! I'm still doin' that street >Besides, I still like what happens to the sounds sometimes, not to mention >the little surprises that occasionally come out of nowhere. OK, so those can >be annoying as well, but I've seen many complaints here about the electronic >gear too ;-). >I don't want to sound like a ranter, or overly sensitive, but yes, there are >still some of us out there. Didn't someone ask about this recently? If so, >drop me a line. I got an old Revox B77 MkII (for tape echo and looping only) about 2 months ago-my choice. Does anyone have any information about the varispeed *remote control* for this machine? The remote enables the pitch shift of +/- 7 instead of the usual +/- 2 available from the front panel. I want to make it into a foot pedal control.... Any suggestions? I am at my wits end here in London... Can't find anybody to tell me.... P&L>M MARK HEWINS < http://www.musart.co.uk/hewins.htm > (try the new CHORD PICKER) < http://www.musart.co.uk/chords.htm > OR THE EMBRYONIC, 'SOUND SERVER' < http://www.musart.co.uk/fram/samfram.htm > From ???@??? Wed Feb 19 23:34:50 1997 >From kflint Wed Feb 19 21:31:21 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vxR6E-0002i6-00; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 21:31:18 -0800 Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 00:27:36 -0500 (EST) From: KemMc@aol.com Message-ID: <970220002735_-1876688574@emout16.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: midi echoplex Resent-Message-ID: <"X01DQC.A.NVC.IE-Cz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2130 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 21:31:18 -0800 X-UIDL: 5a76c3f8ef4a45cd6cf758e817483a39 Hi, loopist I'm using an echoplex pro with about three min. of record time on board and im trying to get the hang of syncing to midi and recording guitar in sync with the midi. Sequencer driving the echoplex sometimes and echo driving the seq. sometimes. Could Kim or Matthias give me a step by step set up for the plex, on both procedures. And also what key combination resets the echoplex back to factory parameters. thanks guys ,the Echoplex Digital Pro is the greatest creative booster I've ever experienced . what a great unit ! thanks again. Kem McNair From ???@??? Thu Feb 20 00:52:58 1997 >From kflint Thu Feb 20 00:10:19 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vxTa6-0003to-00; Thu, 20 Feb 1997 00:10:18 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 00:05:47 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Anti-MIDI looping Resent-Message-ID: <"Fknr9.A.NiD.TaADz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2131 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 00:10:18 -0800 X-UIDL: f4ea43cae37e03623ed81c045b1d3ada At 12:53 PM 2/19/97, BobbyZZZ@aol.com wrote: >hi all! > i need to decide between the Echoplex and the TC 2290 for delays and looping >for live work. has anyone been able to contact Oberheim for service lately? i >have heard some SAD things about their support lately.... Dealing with Oberheim takes some patience. It's a VERY small company. If you call them directly it can take a while for them to get back to you, because they are generally spending their time on some other aspect of running a manufacturing business. (like say, trying to get more echoplexes built) They don't have enough resources to ship products and answer your call, its one or the other. If you call the parent company, Gibson Guitar, you should have no problems getting through to a real customer support human that is genuinely interested in helping you out. That's how it's actually supposed to work. They might not know the answer, but at least they will not know in an upbeat and eager manner. And if you stay on this list, you have not one, not two, but *three* of the original echoplex designers available to do your bidding! Not to mention a whole bunch of plexusers.... (well, we might not do everything you ask. But darn near....;-) ) >can the echoplex >sync up to MIDI clock? we only have one MIDI-CV converter in our band so >far....any of you out there use the TC 2290??? i can get my hands on one for >pretty cheap, and it's been memory expanded already...please help if you're >out there :-) >bobby devito/lvx nova >http://virtu.sar.usf.edu/~devito Yes, the echoplex does sync to midi clock. It generates it as well. Check out the Echoplex FAQ page on the Looper's Delight website. There is a section on midi syncing. http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tools/echoplex/FAQ.html kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Feb 20 00:53:06 1997 >From kflint Thu Feb 20 00:13:31 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vxTdB-00047g-00; Thu, 20 Feb 1997 00:13:29 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 00:08:54 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: midi echoplex Resent-Message-ID: <"I945LC.A.PxD.OdADz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2132 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 00:13:29 -0800 X-UIDL: 97137111dc07caaf7c654474f81a69e3 >Hi, loopist >I'm using an echoplex pro with about three min. of record time on board >and im trying to get the hang of syncing to midi and recording guitar in sync >with the midi. Sequencer driving the echoplex sometimes and echo driving the >seq. sometimes. Could Kim or Matthias give me a step by step set up for the >plex, on both procedures. And also what key combination resets the echoplex >back to factory parameters. thanks guys ,the Echoplex Digital Pro is the >greatest creative booster I've ever experienced . what a great unit ! >thanks again. >Kem McNair You reset the echoplex parameters by holding down the parameter button while powering up. Looping my email: Check out the Echoplex FAQ page on the Looper's Delight website. There is a section on midi syncing. http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tools/echoplex/FAQ.html If that doesn't answer your question, let me know. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Feb 20 09:44:42 1997 >From kflint Thu Feb 20 04:09:55 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vxXJy-0003yp-00; Thu, 20 Feb 1997 04:09:54 -0800 Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 12:12:27 GMT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970220121425.4a570d7c@musart.sonnet.co.uk> X-Sender: mhewins@musart.sonnet.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Mark HEWINS Subject: LOo-oOP Dee-Lite Resent-Message-ID: <"aqMhqD.A.tqD.E7DDz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2133 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 04:09:54 -0800 X-UIDL: b2992cdff7c418944c81fcf7368c6464 Hi Folks, Just added myself and the Canterbury Musicians (well some of them) to the looperlist.... < http://www.musart.co.uk/ > MUSART Hugh Hopper and the rest of the SOFT MACHINE of the time have just released a previously unavailable recording 'Spaced' from 1968, featuring a tape looping extravaganza: Recorded at a primeval 'multi-media' event live at the Roundhouse in London. < http://www.musart.co.uk/tree.htm > We are-in the Canterbury Music scene; all loopers of old (except myself ; Mark Hewins; I'm jung). Daevid Allen(Gong) was at it in 1962 with Robert Wyatt (Soft Machine) and all those looping dudes of old! A seamless 35 year history! Dating from almost before I was born! Some of the Musicians in the Canterbury scene have been using tape loops; and other esoteric bits of gear to make new sounds; since at least the mid 60's and early '70's are: Hugh Hopper, Mike Ratledge, Robert Wyatt, Dave Stewart, Pip Pyle, Dave Sinclair, Kevin Ayers, Lol Coxhill, Phil Miller, Steve Hillage, Richard Sinclair, < http://www.musart.co.uk/muso1.htm > The list carries on and I'm lucky; the heritage trickles down to me.... I now have an old Revox B77 MkII that I use for tape echo and looping only... (Back to the dark ages? I think not) Soft Machine are the ones who supported Pink Floyd when Floyd were still playing 'pop' tunes.... Funny that!... Then as a band they discovered accessable popalooping for making money! The Canterbury boys, from the 'Wilde Flowers' onwards, actually made what was a shift from 'solo' Looping/Improvisation into a group form, dependant on their own Inter/Improvisational skills (considerable). With AMM, And especially Keith Rowe (whom it is also my luck to know well) you had the 'first' ^_^ electric 'Improvised Music' band, but with Soft Machine the Music became known artistically to a world audience. For Pink Floyd it became a financial carreer possibility. All of us working in this area should acknowledge the contribution these gifted experimenters gave us. BTW They all worked with each other at some point too.... A fine example! P&L>M MARK HEWINS < http://www.musart.co.uk/hewins.htm > (try the new CHORD PICKER) < http://www.musart.co.uk/chords.htm > OR MUSART - THE CANTERBURY SCENE MUSICIANS http://www.musart.co.uk/ 300+webpages - over 10,000 hits a week ********************************************* Subscribe to "What's Rattlin'" the weekly CANTERBURY MUSIC ON-LINE NEWSLETTER ***************** *********** bigbang@mail.alpes-net.fr (with the message-subscribe) ************* ************ THE EMBRYONIC, 'SOUND SERVER' < http://www.musart.co.uk/fram/samfram.htm > ************* ************ WHAT'S RATTLIN' ? BACK ISSUES - ONLINE ARCHIVE (MUSART) < http://www.musart.co.uk/watrat/watrat.htm > ********************************************** From ???@??? Thu Feb 20 23:28:29 1997 >From kflint Thu Feb 20 14:48:54 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vxhIL-0005p6-00; Thu, 20 Feb 1997 14:48:53 -0800 From: "Bailey, Jim" To: looppost Subject: Revox varispeed Date:Thu, 20 Feb 1997 17:46:00 -0500 Message-ID: <330CD34E@pcsmtp.cmail.southam.ca> Encoding: 16 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"1l7IfB.A.EDF.QPNDz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2135 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 14:48:53 -0800 X-UIDL: 1919eceb7c361f7c0ee5647f3dc978f7 >From: Mark HEWINS >I got an old Revox B77 MkII (for tape echo and looping only) about 2 months >ago-my choice. Does anyone have any information about the varispeed *remote >control* for this machine? Try writing to a guy named Bob Fripp, or something like that, I understand he used to use them at one time. %~} ) <---- (the smiley family's weird Uncle Salvador). Seriously though, sorry, I'm not that familiar with the Revox gear, it always seemed to be just beyond my financial grasp :-( . Try a service shop that deals with them, or perhaps a distributor, if possible. I don't know enough about the scene over there ot suggest more. Jim b. From ???@??? Thu Feb 20 23:29:06 1997 >From kflint Thu Feb 20 20:50:21 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vxmw4-0001JP-00; Thu, 20 Feb 1997 20:50:16 -0800 Message-ID: <330D2987.2DAE@gte.net> Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 23:50:15 -0500 From: future perfect Reply-To: artmusic@gte.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: JamMan & MIDI References: <330CD34E@pcsmtp.cmail.southam.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fEVL0.A.iAB.GjSDz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2136 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 20:50:17 -0800 X-UIDL: 730246eaddf4979cb48f8cd2148f767d Hi..I am considering buying a JamLad and I would like to know if I can control the various functions with MIDI..I currently use a Ground Control footswitch for my guitar synth, and would like to be able to easily control the loops and overdubs easily, without having more footswitches on the floor. Also, does the JamBoy have a 'multiply' function like the Echoplex? Just wondering... Dave From ???@??? Fri Feb 21 02:10:28 1997 >From kflint Thu Feb 20 23:50:17 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vxpkG-00048Y-00; Thu, 20 Feb 1997 23:50:16 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 23:44:54 -0800 To: artmusic@gte.net, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: JamMan & MIDI Resent-Message-ID: <"sVIrTC.A.wuD.vMVDz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2137 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 23:50:16 -0800 X-UIDL: fb7b2637d9c2c0353e10a7d64cfd7ecd At 11:50 PM 2/20/97, future perfect wrote: >Hi..I am considering buying a JamLad and I would like to know if I can >control the various functions with MIDI..I currently use a Ground >Control footswitch for my guitar synth, and would like to be able to >easily control the loops and overdubs easily, without having more >footswitches on the floor. Also, does the JamBoy have a 'multiply' >function like the Echoplex? Just wondering... >Dave >From what I hear, the JellyMan can be controlled by midi from a ground control. You have to have the updated ground control software to do this. I'm sure there are others who can tell you more about that. Multiply is unique to the Echoplex, so you will be stuck with singular looping. Of course, there is the question of whether there are any jahmans left to buy....anyone know? kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Fri Feb 21 09:46:50 1997 >From kflint Fri Feb 21 05:31:32 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vxv4V-0000az-00; Fri, 21 Feb 1997 05:31:31 -0800 Date: Fri, 21 Feb 97 07:55:50 EST From: c62op27@ibx.com (Victor Fiorillo) Message-Id: <9702211255.AA27636@ibx.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Akai user's group Resent-Message-ID: <"nv6-8B.A.Se.TNaDz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2138 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 05:31:31 -0800 X-UIDL: c1aa29d6bf41536bf70af83d6835bbd5 Does anyone know of a user's group on the Net for the AKAI S2000 or any general Akai list? I have EMail only access, otherwise I could do a search. Thanks, Victor From ???@??? Fri Feb 21 09:46:51 1997 >From kflint Fri Feb 21 05:48:52 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vxvLF-0001EI-00; Fri, 21 Feb 1997 05:48:49 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 10:53:48 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Musicianship, live technique, etc... Resent-Message-ID: <"Y1Um3D.A.OBB.ddaDz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2139 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 05:48:49 -0800 X-UIDL: 31a4e3ea5c6cfa4529cd326b7532ae56 Romeo: >First of all, when working with other musicians, how important is >communication while playing, especially when all of the material is 90 to >100% improvised? I mean like giving each other cues, or just staying in >touch with the other guy/guys to see where they're at. I never look at the partner either. Sound is enough. Picture can disturb, pushing you back to material world. I depends whether you intend to follow the partner or the original inspiration. >Secondly: I'm beginning to understand breaks in composition. I mean >dead spaces, quiet spaces, quieter spaces - increasing dynamic range. >When we work together, one recipe we use is one person will do a complex >drone, the other will do rhythmic sequential stuff. One problem I've been >having is that the music just goes on and on and there aren't any >breaks... it feels like a need to keep the music going no matter what, and >this seems really tiring after a while, like "hey, we're trying to >overload your circuits, relentlessly". On the LOOP delay, there was a button called BREAK. Then, for the Plex, Keith thought MUTE would be easier to understand - I do not know, but it was *meant* to let you create breaks in the loops. >I'm very interested in how you loopers deal with this, since looping >essentially means endless music. I mixed LAZZO, the reggae band here at Carnaval and we traveled 5 hours non stop (litteraly, all songs connected, only once the bass player had to pee) through the city and I felt how close reggae and loops are and serve for dancing. People followed us hours in the rain and when daylight came, all brains were washed. There were some breaks, that did not help for my taste. But dynamics yes. The bass player afterwards said that he felt angry because he could not stand to play these songs extended like that. In my loop music, I handle it similarely: I never stop, but with FeedBack, I keep the dynamics alive and the loop changing. >I was asked to provide some sound installations >for an event I was also playing at. I decided to come up with some audio >"fountains". I made a tape of my modular synthesizer, plus mixing in >some other tape material. The idea was to play them on some custom tape >decks that will play a cassette endlessly, in mono, not repeating the >music for 4 hours. I also kept in mind that these "fountains" would be >playing in quieter spaces, away from the main events where people might be >relaxing or having conversations, so I made a point of letting the music >play, but then recording - often minutes - of dead silence or very quiet >passages. The music would stop as some fountains do periodically. I was >hoping this would provide both entertainment and relaxation or refuge. I loved "sound fountains". HiFi Video tapes may have the longest playing time at a very good quality. With the silent passages you achieve what? Relaxation of the ears? Relaxation from the relaxation :-) ? Do we like fountains that stop periodically? Thanks for the creative contribution Matthias From ???@??? Fri Feb 21 09:46:53 1997 >From kflint Fri Feb 21 05:49:20 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vxvLj-0001HF-00; Fri, 21 Feb 1997 05:49:19 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 10:54:02 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Revox varispeed Resent-Message-ID: <"8V5W2.A.6CB.udaDz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2140 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 05:49:19 -0800 X-UIDL: df1f94522be42a824bdb5caa5014553c >>From: Mark HEWINS >>I got an old Revox B77 MkII (for tape echo and looping only) about 2 months >>ago-my choice. Does anyone have any information about the varispeed *remote >>control* for this machine? By some accident, I have the whole drawings of the B77. I don't know about MkII differences but pinout must be the same: 1 Gnd 2 +12V 3 nothing 4 Control voltage The control voltage runs directly to pin 5 of a NE555. They design the controller with a LM301 as impedance converter. I bet its not necessary. I remember having done such a speed control for a customer in '84 and it was very simple, and it worked. The pot in the controller is 10k lin and for the coarse setting, it has 16k2 to ground and 5k7 to +12V. They even use 1% resistors. Revox. Just go ahead and try. Or ask more questions. Matthias From ???@??? Thu Feb 20 09:44:48 1997 >From kflint Thu Feb 20 06:28:35 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vxZU8-0000WT-00; Thu, 20 Feb 1997 06:28:32 -0800 Message-Id: <9702201428.AA20502@beryllium.lexicon.com> Priority: urgent Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 09:11:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: RE: Some of us never left To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V3.50c)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"j3LCrD.A.HX.U8FDz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2134 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 06:28:32 -0800 X-UIDL: a832135630e1a87241fd7f7a826fe28e Mark Hewins asked:" Does anyone have any information about the varispeed *remote control* for this machine?" The B77 accepts somewhere between +2 and +12Vdc which can vary from machine to machine. DC input is at pin 4 of the 4 pin din and ground is pin 1. From ???@??? Fri Feb 21 09:47:14 1997 >From kflint Fri Feb 21 08:09:31 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vxxXO-0000BG-00; Fri, 21 Feb 1997 08:09:30 -0800 Message-Id: <199702211559.KAA06984@acc.haverford.edu> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 11:03:10 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: jspeer@haverford.edu Subject: 2 subjects Resent-Message-ID: <"agBBrB.A.vNH.MfcDz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2143 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 08:09:30 -0800 X-UIDL: bbab171e9d6f03ad752363accf41cf15 Hi Loopers! Firstly, a web page has been established for the Philadelphia / Mid-Atlantic LOOP SHOW, happening next month. The page includes short bios of the four loop acts performing that night, plus pretty decent directions to the venue from all points. No pix yet, but maybe later. Check it out at: http://atomsun.harvard.edu/broadside/loopshow.html Nextly, I've been subscribed to this list since almost day 1, but until Tuesday I didn't have my *JamMan*! Yeah! I love it, and I'm looking forward to doing something musical with it. I'm going to start taking your comments all a lot more seriously now. Later, Jim ********************** My Town: Philadelphia! From ???@??? Fri Feb 21 09:47:20 1997 >From kflint Fri Feb 21 08:48:45 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vxy9M-0003BL-00; Fri, 21 Feb 1997 08:48:44 -0800 Message-Id: <199702211638.LAA13838@acc.haverford.edu> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 11:41:43 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: jspeer@haverford.edu Subject: Re: JamMan & MIDI Resent-Message-ID: <"bLOvdB.A.tnC.ZDdDz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2144 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 08:48:44 -0800 X-UIDL: e1b40f7f25ffa6d69382cfe1282d3762 >Of course, there is the question of whether there are any jahmans left to >buy....anyone know? I bought mine from The Music Place in Berlin, NJ, (609)768-2226... just a few days ago. After I got mine, they had one left. $315. ********************** My Town: Philadelphia! From ???@??? Fri Feb 21 09:47:23 1997 >From kflint Fri Feb 21 08:57:31 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vxyHq-0003wg-00; Fri, 21 Feb 1997 08:57:30 -0800 Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 10:57:16 -0600 From: John Pollock Subject: Re: Some of us never left To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-to: johnpollock@delphi.com Message-id: <330DD3EC.2D00@delphi.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <330B8400@pcsmtp.cmail.southam.ca> Resent-Message-ID: <"Gphv-.A.ocD.KNdDz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2145 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 08:57:30 -0800 X-UIDL: 46798398309f03e2bce645c4175ed00e In an earlier post, I wrote: > > I don't know of anyone eager to return to the days of > >twin reel-to-reels. To which Jim Bailey replied, in part: > Hey! I'm still doin' that street... [snip] ...I still like what happens to the sounds sometimes, not to mention > the little surprises that occasionally come out of nowhere... [snip] ...It's a bit like the > difference between a Mellotron and a string synth, or sampler even. While > both serve the same purpose, they sound considerably different (unless it's > a sample of a Mellotron :-]). > > I don't want to sound like a ranter, or overly sensitive, but yes, there are > still some of us out there. Hey, my _only_ multitrack recorder is a Teac A-3340S! I certainly didn't intend to belittle _any_ technology or its users. My point was that without the efforts of Lexicon, Oberheim/Gibson, and Boomerang, the only options available to would-be loopers would be expensive (e.g., the TCE 2290), nearly impossible to obtain (EH 16-sec, Paradis Loop Delay), or twin reel to reels-- the only financially practical option for many of us. I'm glad that Jim and others are continuing to explore the musical possibilities of reel to reel tape. I have a strong suspicion that many "obsolete" technologies have a lot more to offer than has been discovered so far. My own labors in this particular trench involve the Casio VZ synthesizers. In addition to the implications of their 12-second delay capability (already noted on this list and my Web site), the VZ's combination of modulation possibilities allows creation of extremely long, subtly (or dramatically) changing sounds, containing both repetitive and non-repetitive elements. It's not looping, but there are obvious similarities. John Pollock mailto:johnpollock@delphi.com http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock (Troubador Tech) From ???@??? Sat Feb 22 02:59:52 1997 >From kflint Fri Feb 21 10:51:08 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vy03k-00051q-00; Fri, 21 Feb 1997 10:51:04 -0800 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 10:48:21 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: alternate footpedals for JamMonster? Resent-Message-ID: <"KQVX4.A.-cE.N3eDz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2147 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 10:51:04 -0800 X-UIDL: 669d1b809dcd61787375cfb5446f3f77 I am interested in making one box which has all the switches for my looping setup (2 EDP's & 2 JamMan's). I am envisioning reproducing the EDP footswitch (w/ an A/B box to switch between the two EDP's) and having 4 switches for each JamMan (to utilize all the footswitching capability). My question is: What types of switches do each of the units use? Are they all momentary switches? normally open or normally closed? - chris From ???@??? Sat Feb 22 02:59:44 1997 >From kflint Fri Feb 21 10:29:34 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vxzip-0003JR-00; Fri, 21 Feb 1997 10:29:27 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 10:50:31 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: alternate footpedals for JamMonster? Resent-Message-ID: <"slaGQD.A.yuC.zheDz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2146 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 10:29:27 -0800 X-UIDL: 3c6620f5e27c4655e1ccfdb736b17f33 >While I love my JamSter, I hate that damned footswitch. While rifling >in a box of old cable I found an insert Y-splitter, meaning that there >is one male stereo jack attached to two mono female jacks. One of the F >jacks is marked RING and the TIP (this starting to sound familiar?). >You use these just like a normal insert cable except you use a regular >old 1/4" to 1/4" cable. > >I was thinking that it would be a swell idea to use two sustain pedals >plugged into this Y-dingus and has a slightly more tap friendly pedal >contraption. Will this work? Do I need the normally open kind or the >normally closed? > I have an old pedal that is a pair of piano-style sustain pedals in one housing, with a stereo plug. I'm not sure who made it, I'm not even sure where I got it, but it works GREAT as a tap/bypass pedal. It just feels the most accurate for grabbing loops in rhythm, compared to the stock JamMan pedals and Midi program changes. This may just be my own perception, but the drummer I play with has noticed the difference in my looping. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Sat Feb 22 03:00:28 1997 >From kflint Fri Feb 21 14:47:53 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vy3ku-0002Ox-00; Fri, 21 Feb 1997 14:47:52 -0800 Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 14:43:35 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: cmeyer@ni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: cmeyer@cybmotion.com (Chris Meyer) Subject: Re: Musicianship, live technique, etc... Resent-Message-ID: <"VT27m.A.R6B.3UiDz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2148 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 14:47:52 -0800 X-UIDL: 7b6e4eca1adca921a80cd67c56f478ba >>First of all, when working with other musicians, how important is >>communication while playing, especially when all of the material is 90 to >>100% improvised? I mean like giving each other cues, or just staying in >>touch with the other guy/guys to see where they're at. >> >For one thing, you don't have to look at each other to communicate. True. Really excellent monitoring (and knowing the people you are playing with) can be an ideal substitute for eye contact. I was in one band for awhile where we would play in a cramped storage shed behind the leader's house. It was so cramped, we could not set up in a way that would also allow line of site between us. Headphone monitoring gave such intimate detail on what each other is doing, however, that it worked fine (as long as everyone is being sensitive - _very_ important). In the band I play in now, I know if I can't hear myself clearly through the monitors, I start throwing in more and more sounds, and usually end up making a more dense, less sensitive contribution. Even after two years with the ssame guys. >>The reason I bring this up is that I've noticed that when I work with my >>new partner, that we almost never make eye contact and musically I'm >>finding it hard to connect - it seems like we're having two monologues >>rather than a conversation. Until you build a real connection with the other person, you will need other tools such as eye contact. Realize that some musicians never get into the give and take situation of sharing space with someone else in a realtime context - doesn't mean they're bad; it's just where their head is at. Another interesting challenge has been the introduction of actors/readers into the band, who don't have a history of communicating in an improvisational musical context. We spent a lot of time trying to read their body english to see when they were going to come in and sit out; they eventually learned the ebb and flow of the band so they knew where the better places to come in where. OTOH, when people are being sensitive and using common sense, it is amazing how things can click together. Fripp and Summers claim before they did their album together, they spent hours sitting directly in front of each other, staring at each other, playing just acoustic guitars - to make sure they know it would work. Eye contact and a nod never hurt. >and can be >surprisingly difficult even for experienced musicians. The idea is to >develop a set of tools for improvising, kind of like licks that you fall >back on while thinking of your next brilliant statement in a solo. I heartily agree with this. Some people are so focused on being artists 100% of the time, they either succeed spectacularly or fail spectacularly. If they can't think of what to say (musically or vocally) in an improv setting, sometimes they try to force through something inappropriate, end prematurely, etc. I think in moments like that, it is great to have a toolchest of things to fall back on when inspiration isn't striking in realtime. Being a looper, it is nice to be able to fall back on the loop to carry your roll, and then only add in other statements when you feel inspired. >Another thing that works is to set up a game plan for the improvised piece >before you start. Try thinking of a structure, like alternating crescendos >and decrescendos, or somthing. Try writing out improvisational structures >away from your instruments and then playing them. Our band leader calls them a "flight path." The details aren't spelled out; just the general energies and spaces - the arc of energy through the piece. >>Secondly: I'm beginning to understand breaks in composition. I mean >>dead spaces, quiet spaces, quieter spaces - increasing dynamic range. >>When we work together, one recipe we use is one person will do a complex >>drone, the other will do rhythmic sequential stuff. Our band leader has hand signals for things like less dense, more dense, rhythmic, ambient, etc. that really help sometimes. I am a person with few traditional musical skills, who did everything with exacting precision (and obsessing) in front of a computer. I have joined improv groups on a few occasions, and after the intial "without a net" feeling of panic (which can last for months at first), I greatly enjoy it and revel in it. The main things are to know your instrument (whatever it is - from an acoustic guitar to a complex rack of signal processors) so you can get what you want out of it quickly, have confidence in what you can do, and to be relaxed with those you are improvising with. And not to have any bad eggs - nothing is more depressing than being in an improv group where, say, three people are really in sync, and the fourth isn't happy and is purposely trying to throw in musical monkey wrenches (happened to me years ago). Oh, and record everything!!! - CM \ Chris & Trish Meyer/CyberMotion: Motion Graphics Design & Effects \ cmeyer@cybmotion.com & cybertrish@aol.com fax: (818) 598 3957 \__________________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Sat Feb 22 03:00:32 1997 >From kflint Fri Feb 21 15:06:45 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vy43A-0003rk-00; Fri, 21 Feb 1997 15:06:44 -0800 Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 18:02:58 -0500 (EST) From: Adam Levin To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: DOD DFX94 Delay/Sampler Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"HGnCYD.A.JWD.4miDz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2149 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 15:06:44 -0800 X-UIDL: 88b896ee32f6d936dc6684219bdf8800 Does anyone have any insights into this pedal (i.e. how/if it would work for a live looping situation)? -Adam --- "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue, out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one becomes a Hearer." - Chandrakirti From ???@??? Sat Feb 22 03:00:35 1997 >From kflint Fri Feb 21 16:39:12 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vy5UZ-0002to-00; Fri, 21 Feb 1997 16:39:07 -0800 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199702220035.QAA29013@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Mark Hewins To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 16:35:22 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8_19lC.A.BYC.S9jDz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2150 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 16:39:07 -0800 X-UIDL: 199f660de5faf25783f3a9e8ce8e0446 I just thought I'd mention that Mark has an excellent solo guitar CD entitled _the electric guitar_. He gets a pretty amazing variety of tones given there are no overdubs or effects other than a plate reverb. The music is kind of in Jim O'Rourke territory (I only say this because there's little else to compare Mark's CD to). While I sometimes wonder "How the heck did he do this/that?" I find it very listenable for a Cd in the "experimental guitar" vein. Welcome to the list, Mark! Paolo Valladolid --------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ---------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Sat Feb 22 03:00:38 1997 >From kflint Fri Feb 21 17:40:09 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vy6Rb-0007Ps-00; Fri, 21 Feb 1997 17:40:07 -0800 From: "Bailey, Jim" To: looppost Subject: Some of us... Date:Fri, 21 Feb 1997 20:40:00 -0500 Message-ID: <330E4D83@pcsmtp.cmail.southam.ca> Encoding: 29 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"eUgYIC.A.KzG.u3kDz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2151 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 17:40:07 -0800 X-UIDL: 886bdb0ddf2dd9b669474d1a28046096 >Hey, my _only_ multitrack recorder is a Teac A-3340S! (Oh, how I lusted for one of those - as well as a few other things not quite so mechanical - but the price was too steep on both counts %~}) ) >I certainly didn't intend to belittle _any_ technology or its users. I realise this. Perhaps I should have included a few more smileys to show that I wasn't actually offended. >My point was that without the efforts of Lexicon, Oberheim/Gibson, and Boomerang, >the only options available to would-be loopers would be expensive >(e.g., the TCE 2290), nearly impossible to obtain (EH 16-sec, Paradis >Loop Delay), or twin reel to reels-- the only financially practical >option for many of us. This is very true. Also, thanks to Mark Hewins for the info on the Canterbury site. I've been into that stuff for over twenty years now, and try to catch a gig or two by some member of the fraternity on my too infrequent trips to the UK. I actually had the embarassing honour of having Stephen Miller lend me a pound to get back home once, after I had spent too much on beer at one of the weekly pub gigs he was doing in '85, with Lol Coxhill as guest (I did pay him back the next week, when Elton Dean was the guest). But enough name dropping, here's a second to the motion to check these guys out. Jim B. From ???@??? Sat Feb 22 03:00:41 1997 >From kflint Fri Feb 21 18:10:11 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vy6ug-0001fC-00; Fri, 21 Feb 1997 18:10:10 -0800 X-Mailer: WinNET Mail, v2.61 Message-ID: <863@mainstring.win.net> Reply-To: pk@mainstring.win.net (Pat Kirtley) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 21:01:09 Subject: "Jamman" up for a Grammy From: pk@mainstring.win.net (Pat Kirtley) Resent-Message-ID: <"OmoN0C.A.mWB.aTlDz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2152 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 18:10:10 -0800 X-UIDL: 913e887260ac5ca87a99b695bb41fb8c Chet Atkins is now playing weekly every Monday evening at the Caffe Milano in downtown Nashville, and is incorporating a little live looping in each performance. I went down to see him there last Monday (2/17) and spoke with him for a few minutes after the show. I told him about the Looper's Delight group on the internet and explained what it was about. He seemed amazed that there would be this degree of interest in looping. He has two Jammen @ 32s memory. He was also amazed to hear that Lexicon had discontinued the unit! (take note Lex). When he performs with the unit, he first explains a bit about what's happening, for the benefit of unsuspecting audiences, and says that with such a unit, "you can be your own miniature Les Paul". He also describes Les Paul's first home-brew looping machine (late 1940's) which was dubbed the "Les Paulverizer". Some encouraging news for loopers-- Chet's tune "Jam Man" from his album "Almost Alone" is nominated for a Grammy. It's his only tune so nominated in the last three years. Pat Kirtley ---------------------- pk@mainstring.win.net www.win.net/mainstring From ???@??? Sat Feb 22 03:00:45 1997 >From kflint Sat Feb 22 00:07:12 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vyCUA-0007Ob-00; Sat, 22 Feb 1997 00:07:10 -0800 Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 03:03:43 -0500 From: Michael Peters Subject: RE: "Jamman" up for a Grammy To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Message-ID: <199702220303_MC2-1196-AC0E@compuserve.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"BGtQm.A._zG.viqDz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2153 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 00:07:10 -0800 X-UIDL: a22da98167c8982064ff50d6cb49696e Pat, > He also describes Les Paul's first home-brew looping machine (late 1940's) which was dubbed the "Les Paulverizer". Never heard of that before - did Chet tell you about the "Les Paulverizer"? What kind of device was it? How did it work? I'd love to include this info in our "History of Looping" webpage. Michael Peters mpeters@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters From ???@??? Sat Feb 22 12:38:19 1997 >From kflint Sat Feb 22 03:34:23 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vyFig-0000Yq-00; Sat, 22 Feb 1997 03:34:22 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 03:58:37 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Some of us.../Canterbury Resent-Message-ID: <"PF06bC.A.Cc.UltDz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2154 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 03:34:22 -0800 X-UIDL: 7873059bf43059d413c708a87f830933 >>Hey, my _only_ multitrack recorder is a Teac A-3340S! >(Oh, how I lusted for one of those - as well as a few other things not quite >so mechanical - but the price was too steep on both counts %~}) ) > A few years ago I scored a Tascam 32 1/2 track deck in exchange for a few hours of computer work. I use it for tape loops all the time. Now if I could only find another at the same price... >Also, thanks to Mark Hewins for the info on the Canterbury site. I've been >into that stuff for over twenty years now, and try to catch a gig or two by >some member of the fraternity on my too infrequent trips to the UK. I >actually had the embarassing honour of having Stephen Miller lend me a pound >to get back home once, after I had spent too much on beer at one of the >weekly pub gigs he was doing in '85, with Lol Coxhill as guest (I did pay >him back the next week, when Elton Dean was the guest). But enough name >dropping, here's a second to the motion to check these guys out. > Oh yeah, absolutely. I spent way too much of my mis-spent youth transcribing Hugh Hopper's bass lines from the Soft Machine records. It paid off though, I actually got to sub for him once, playing his tunes! ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Sat Feb 22 12:38:21 1997 >From kflint Sat Feb 22 04:09:02 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vyGGD-0001hV-00; Sat, 22 Feb 1997 04:09:01 -0800 Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 12:11:39 GMT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970222121337.3bdf6c0a@musart.sonnet.co.uk> X-Sender: mhewins@musart.sonnet.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Mark HEWINS Subject: Re: Some of us... Resent-Message-ID: <"juDkPD.A.8eB.JGuDz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2155 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 04:09:01 -0800 X-UIDL: 4ac1e9e2754c5f1a7206bdc510ddabd2 Hi Lo_oP ers.... >>twin reel to reels-- the only financially practical >>option for many of us. I agree entirely, also there is a question of sound density with analog tape and digital processors which needs including in the equation. >Also, thanks to Mark Hewins for the info on the Canterbury site. I've been >into that stuff for over twenty years now, and try to catch a gig or two by >some member of the fraternity on my too infrequent trips to the UK. I >actually had the embarassing honour of having Stephen Miller lend me a pound >to get back home once, after I had spent too much on beer at one of the >weekly pub gigs he was doing in '85, with Lol Coxhill as guest (I did pay >him back the next week, when Elton Dean was the guest). But enough name >dropping, here's a second to the motion to check these guys out. We're still doing them gigs, last was in January with Phil Miller (MIDI Guitar) Steve Miller (yes, they're brothers) Grand Piano and me, as a trio. The concert was in a 'classical' type hall with amazing focused acoustics. The reverb setting could be termed 'medium hall' I suppose, but it did'nt sound like a pre-set in a box. Some thoughts on the Earthlight studio's guy who plays in the cave with an e-bow and an acoustic twice a year... I'm so sorry I can't remember your name I think being able to use an ambient environment with 'real' reverb as an adjunct to the Music is something which has endless possibilities.... Not only in terms of presenting the music in the best way possible. I have some plans for the millennium to do something different (hopefully) with this idea... However if you play in Grand Central station, you will be arrested! For those who have asked about my 1st. solo record. 'The Electric Guitar' (nb. it maybe should have been called 'AN electric Guitar'! ^_^) It was recorded in 1986, but the first recording of the 'physical' playing techniques I use on that particular CD is on the soft HEAP CD 'A veritable centaur' from 1982. P&L>Mark MARK HEWINS < http://www.musart.co.uk/hewins.htm > (try the new CHORD PICKER) < http://www.musart.co.uk/script/chords.htm > OR MUSART - THE CANTERBURY SCENE MUSICIANS http://www.musart.co.uk/ 300+webpages - over 10,000 hits a week ********************************************* Subscribe to "What's Rattlin'" the weekly CANTERBURY MUSIC ON-LINE NEWSLETTER ***************** *********** bigbang@mail.alpes-net.fr (with the message-subscribe) ************* ************ THE EMBRYONIC, 'SOUND SERVER' < http://www.musart.co.uk/fram/samfram.htm > ************* ************ WHAT'S RATTLIN' ? BACK ISSUES - ONLINE ARCHIVE (MUSART) < http://www.musart.co.uk/watrat/watrat.htm > ********************************************** From ???@??? Sat Feb 22 12:38:23 1997 >From kflint Sat Feb 22 04:09:31 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vyGGf-0001jn-00; Sat, 22 Feb 1997 04:09:29 -0800 Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 12:11:59 GMT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970222121355.3f1f5d1e@musart.sonnet.co.uk> X-Sender: mhewins@musart.sonnet.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Mark HEWINS Subject: Casio VZ Synth Resent-Message-ID: <"KpOI5B.A.fgB.YGuDz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2156 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 04:09:29 -0800 X-UIDL: 72b2b26257bc130003e57a987c1ca24c Hi everyone on the LO_OP ^_^ John Pollock wrote >Casio VZ synthesizers. In addition to the implications of their >12-second delay capability (already noted on this list and my Web site), >the VZ's combination of modulation possibilities allows creation of >extremely long, subtly (or dramatically) changing sounds, containing >both repetitive and non-repetitive elements. It's not looping, but >there are obvious similarities. I worked with Casio in the US on this machine and the FZ samplers when they came out in '87 I think; and I have the complete Casio 'pro audio' line. (now deleted) PG380 Guitar VZ1 Keyboard (the VZ10 & 8M are the rack version) FZ10M's Sampler modules (the FZ1 was the keyboard version) I still run Notator (C-lab) software on Atari. (If it aint broke..etc.etc.) At the same time in a different partition I run the Dr. T editor for the VZ Synth (This is an incredible editor, controlling EVERY SINGLE operator seamlessly) This enables me to edit a sound on the computer, send it to the keyboard, write a RAM card, then stick it straight into the Guitar. The VZ is one of THE most programmable synth's on the planet. I have many sounds as described by John. All created almost out of thin air.... There's a great 'randomise' command on the editor, does it all for you, if you want! ^_^ BTW I have had quite a few messages of welcome to this list. Thanks to everyone who wrote esp. Paulo; and Matthias thanks for the Revox info! Hi everyone!! Great list Kim! Very friendly people, I must say! P&L>M (Sorry someone ^_^ put the wrong URL for the chord picker, now correct) MARK HEWINS < http://www.musart.co.uk/hewins.htm > (try the new CHORD PICKER) < http://www.musart.co.uk/script/chords.htm > OR MUSART - THE CANTERBURY SCENE MUSICIANS http://www.musart.co.uk/ 300+webpages - over 10,000 hits a week ********************************************* Subscribe to "What's Rattlin'" the weekly CANTERBURY MUSIC ON-LINE NEWSLETTER ***************** *********** bigbang@mail.alpes-net.fr (with the message-subscribe) ************* ************ THE EMBRYONIC, 'SOUND SERVER' < http://www.musart.co.uk/fram/samfram.htm > ************* ************ WHAT'S RATTLIN' ? BACK ISSUES - ONLINE ARCHIVE (MUSART) < http://www.musart.co.uk/watrat/watrat.htm > ********************************************** From ???@??? Sat Feb 22 12:38:25 1997 >From kflint Sat Feb 22 04:37:47 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vyGi2-0002fs-00; Sat, 22 Feb 1997 04:37:46 -0800 Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 06:42:00 -0600 From: John Pollock Subject: Re: JamMan & MIDI To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-to: johnpollock@delphi.com Message-id: <330EE998.FEE@delphi.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: Resent-Message-ID: <"8KTAoB.A.0YC.AguDz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2157 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 04:37:46 -0800 X-UIDL: 49197309ed1c9c50eae49cf8012122fe Kim Flint wrote: > Of course, there is the question of whether there are any jahmans left to > buy....anyone know? The Musician's Friend "Spring Preview 1997" catalog I received Thursday offers it for $349.99. John Pollock mailto:johnpollock@delphi.com http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock (Troubador Tech) From ???@??? Fri Feb 21 09:46:59 1997 >From kflint Fri Feb 21 06:15:56 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vxvlS-0002Mi-00; Fri, 21 Feb 1997 06:15:54 -0800 Sender: soft@nyfac.com Message-ID: <330F01C5.41C6@nyfac.com> Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 09:25:09 -0500 From: nyfac X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; IRIX 5.3 IP22) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Musicianship, live technique, etc... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"nAsyFB.A.wDC.b2aDz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2141 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 06:15:54 -0800 X-UIDL: 75b76123b7a86b7e1a8c37a8df26b7d5 > >First of all, when working with other musicians, how important is > >communication while playing, especially when all of the material is 90 to > >100% improvised? I mean like giving each other cues, or just staying in > >touch with the other guy/guys to see where they're at. > > I never look at the partner either. Sound is enough. Picture can disturb, > pushing you back to material world. > I depends whether you intend to follow the partner or the original inspiration. I rely quite a bit on eye-contact. It seems to me that if you can tell what your partners are doing just by listening to them, then you may be in danger of being predictable. As far as being a material disturbance, eye contact between partners is intuitive and becomes second nature. > >Secondly: I'm beginning to understand breaks in composition. I mean > >dead spaces, quiet spaces, quieter spaces - increasing dynamic range. > >When we work together, one recipe we use is one person will do a complex > >drone, the other will do rhythmic sequential stuff. One problem I've been > >having is that the music just goes on and on and there aren't any > >breaks... it feels like a need to keep the music going no matter what, and > >this seems really tiring after a while, like "hey, we're trying to > >overload your circuits, relentlessly". I have a bad habit of doing this, too. > > >I was asked to provide some sound installations > >for an event I was also playing at. I decided to come up with some audio > >"fountains". I made a tape of my modular synthesizer, plus mixing in > >some other tape material. The idea was to play them on some custom tape > >decks that will play a cassette endlessly, in mono, not repeating the > >music for 4 hours. I also kept in mind that these "fountains" would be > >playing in quieter spaces, away from the main events where people might be > >relaxing or having conversations, so I made a point of letting the music > >play, but then recording - often minutes - of dead silence or very quiet > >passages. The music would stop as some fountains do periodically. I was > >hoping this would provide both entertainment and relaxation or refuge. A friend of mine did something similar to this, but instead of using canned audio he ransacked my studio for every imaginable processor to toast radio broadcasts and the heavily effected drum machine output. It was swell. From ???@??? Fri Feb 21 09:46:58 1997 >From kflint Fri Feb 21 06:15:46 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vxvlJ-0002Lv-00; Fri, 21 Feb 1997 06:15:45 -0800 Sender: soft@nyfac.com Message-ID: <330F0475.167E@nyfac.com> Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 09:36:37 -0500 From: nyfac X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; IRIX 5.3 IP22) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: alternate footpedals for JamMonster? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5sYpWD.A.8DC.c2aDz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2142 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 06:15:45 -0800 X-UIDL: 4a98baebb401697cf399a32e7192b429 While I love my JamSter, I hate that damned footswitch. While rifling in a box of old cable I found an insert Y-splitter, meaning that there is one male stereo jack attached to two mono female jacks. One of the F jacks is marked RING and the TIP (this starting to sound familiar?). You use these just like a normal insert cable except you use a regular old 1/4" to 1/4" cable. I was thinking that it would be a swell idea to use two sustain pedals plugged into this Y-dingus and has a slightly more tap friendly pedal contraption. Will this work? Do I need the normally open kind or the normally closed? Trevor From ???@??? Sat Feb 22 12:38:27 1997 >From kflint Sat Feb 22 07:36:22 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vyJUr-0001Lb-00; Sat, 22 Feb 1997 07:36:21 -0800 Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 10:34:55 -0500 From: neato@pipeline.com X-Sender: neato@pop.pipeline.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: les paul Resent-Message-ID: <"-AFNq.A.YLB.nIxDz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2158 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 07:36:21 -0800 X-UIDL: af8f03018ab51856bbadd1575b1be852 >> He also describes Les Paul's first home-brew looping machine (late >1940's) which was dubbed the "Les Paulverizer". neato says: les paul had just about every recording related technique covered years before anyone! he built guitars with a mike for vocals sticking out of it, and a guitar which had the controls for operating some pre recorded tracks behind him...in addition, in the 40's he painstakingly recorded a loop of a friends footsteps and used it as the rhythm for one of his overdubbed masterpieces...he sped guitar tracks up, he looped, he overdubbed... he did it all years before anyone cheers all my mistakes were once acts of genius neato@pipeline com From ???@??? Sat Feb 22 12:38:31 1997 >From kflint Sat Feb 22 08:14:39 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vyK5u-0002lU-00; Sat, 22 Feb 1997 08:14:38 -0800 Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 11:12:20 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199702221612.LAA13590@shell.monmouth.com> X-Sender: andre@monmouth.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: andre Subject: Re: les paul Resent-Message-ID: <"8ULt4.A.HeC.QsxDz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2159 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 08:14:38 -0800 X-UIDL: 90c68d4e44cd0979e145cd7e88e89898 and don't forget, he also had a FIVE track tape deck in 1952, while a big deal is made of Sgt Pepper being on FOUR track 15 years later (and it is a big deal, don't get me wrong!!!) but LP is great kick me if i don't go see him at IRIDIUM one of these monday nights... andre' At 10:34 AM 2/22/97 -0500, you wrote: > >>> He also describes Les Paul's first home-brew looping machine (late >>1940's) which was dubbed the "Les Paulverizer". > >neato says: >les paul had just about every recording related technique covered years >before anyone! he built guitars with a mike for vocals sticking out of it, >and a guitar which had the controls for operating some pre recorded tracks >behind him...in addition, in the 40's he painstakingly recorded a loop of a >friends footsteps and used it as the rhythm for one of his overdubbed >masterpieces...he sped guitar tracks up, he looped, he overdubbed... >he did it all years before anyone >cheers > > all my mistakes were once acts of genius > neato@pipeline com > > > > > From ???@??? Sat Feb 22 12:38:32 1997 >From kflint Sat Feb 22 09:21:13 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vyL8J-0005LW-00; Sat, 22 Feb 1997 09:21:11 -0800 Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 12:19:01 -0500 (EST) From: BobbyZZZ@aol.com Message-ID: <970222121900_984616112@emout18.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: les paul Resent-Message-ID: <"vMpG.A.A8E.FryDz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2160 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 09:21:11 -0800 X-UIDL: 60439d9bc69bf388f9726380658aeff2 In a message dated 2/22/97 11:14:17 AM, you wrote: >and don't forget, he also had a FIVE track tape deck in 1952, while a big >deal is made of Sgt Pepper being on FOUR track 15 years later (and it is a >big deal, don't get me wrong!!!) but LP is great > > >kick me if i don't go see him at IRIDIUM one of these monday nights... > >andre' Les Paul is a national treasure, and if ANY of you have the chance to go see him in NYC, i would STRONGLY urge you to go. he used to play every monday at Fat Tuesdays, i went when i was up in NYC at the CMJ conference....sat directly in front of him at a table by the stage. Les Paul was incredible, played his ass off with just a rhythm guitarist (Lou Pallo, a formidable guitarist himself) and an acoustic bassist. Les can still play like no one else, and after the show he takes the time to hang out with people, talk guitar, sign stuff, etc. Les started it all for us electronic guitarists....way back in '48....incredible!!!! bobby devito/lvx nova From ???@??? Sat Feb 22 12:38:34 1997 >From kflint Sat Feb 22 10:37:55 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vyMKY-0000kn-00; Sat, 22 Feb 1997 10:37:54 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 15:43:01 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: archiving Resent-Message-ID: <"iwYACC.A.9l.pyzDz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2161 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 10:37:54 -0800 X-UIDL: b600755c0f4355b227f41569b44e3074 Since after the following old mail there was no interest shown, aehm... *trash the archive*, Kim! Helow, newer list users! I wonder whether you are helped with our archive and whether its worth the effort for you to catch up with all that has been said? I think it is, because a lot of fundamental thinking happened when it was all new. I once started the condensed version to save you from diging through all the headers, repetitions and wild mix of different subjects, some of them even outdated. Does anyone apreciate it? It takes some time to do it (it took me 2-3 hours to do what there is). And there is a lot of newer good stuff to add to it. I thought that someone who is about to study the archive might be the right person to do this work because - he is going through the mails anyway and copy pasting is quick - he is one of those that profit from our initial work, so its fair What do you think? Matthias From ???@??? Sat Feb 22 12:38:46 1997 >From kflint Sat Feb 22 11:33:44 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vyNCX-0003Kb-00; Sat, 22 Feb 1997 11:33:41 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 16:38:59 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: les paul Resent-Message-ID: <"fNJdAB.A.sCD.-m0Dz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2162 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 11:33:41 -0800 X-UIDL: 97efad4083a5f8a315b2c3d6741aae9a >>> He also describes Les Paul's first home-brew looping machine (late >>1940's) which was dubbed the "Les Paulverizer". > >neato says: >les paul had just about every recording related technique covered years >before anyone! he built guitars with a mike for vocals sticking out of it, >and a guitar which had the controls for operating some pre recorded tracks >behind him...in addition, in the 40's he painstakingly recorded a loop of a >friends footsteps and used it as the rhythm for one of his overdubbed >masterpieces...he sped guitar tracks up, he looped, he overdubbed... >he did it all years before anyone >cheers Certainly a genious pionieer... Was any of this, especially the Paulverizer available to public? From ???@??? Sat Feb 22 17:19:08 1997 >From kflint Sat Feb 22 12:55:08 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vyOTL-0006xm-00; Sat, 22 Feb 1997 12:55:07 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 12:50:26 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: archiving Resent-Message-ID: <"XJlrBC.A.5aG.Mz1Dz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2163 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 12:55:07 -0800 X-UIDL: 9738264a1a4e3c853a44da8b014c5173 Actually, Ed Drake has done quite a bit of great editing. I should have it up this weekend. It's Jamman related, but actually interesting even if that's not your looper of choice. more is always welcome of course! kim >Since after the following old mail there was no interest shown, aehm... > > *trash the archive*, Kim! > > >Helow, newer list users! > >I wonder whether you are helped with our archive and whether its worth the >effort for you to catch up with all that has been said? >I think it is, because a lot of fundamental thinking happened when it was >all new. > >I once started the condensed version to save you from diging through all >the headers, repetitions and wild mix of different subjects, some of them >even outdated. >Does anyone apreciate it? It takes some time to do it (it took me 2-3 hours >to do what there is). And there is a lot of newer good stuff to add to it. > >I thought that someone who is about to study the archive might be the right >person to do this work because >- he is going through the mails anyway and copy pasting is quick >- he is one of those that profit from our initial work, so its fair > >What do you think? >Matthias ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sat Feb 22 17:19:11 1997 >From kflint Sat Feb 22 15:08:37 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vyQYW-0004zB-00; Sat, 22 Feb 1997 15:08:36 -0800 Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 16:04:54 -0700 (MST) From: Dan Howarth To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: DOD DFX94 Delay/Sampler In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"DUfG-C.A.yjE.Iw3Dz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2164 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 15:08:36 -0800 X-UIDL: 7c58cbc46dc6ebcef41ddf9ede3d682b > Does anyone have any insights into this pedal (i.e. how/if it would work > for a live looping situation)? > i think this is the four second delay/infinite repeat/sampler pedal, isn't it? i have the one second version (pedal), but i never use it because i also have a four second rackmount unit. i would recommend this four second pedal if you can't find a jam/echo to work into your budget. also, you avoid the need of a footpedal to control a jam/echo because this unit is already on the floor. of course, you can't expand it... but i get tons of miles out of my four second looper (rack). **************************************************************** ** Dan Howarth, History/Music, University of Arizona, Tucson ** ** http://www.u.arizona.edu/~howarth (under construction) ** **************************************************************** From ???@??? Sat Feb 22 17:40:51 1997 >From kflint Sat Feb 22 17:35:33 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vySqi-0003Q9-00; Sat, 22 Feb 1997 17:35:32 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 17:29:33 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: New web stuff Resent-Message-ID: <"wwtZtB.A.RDD.345Dz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2165 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 17:35:32 -0800 X-UIDL: cf7dbb0ab2b3906e998686df6d23b91f As promised, Ed Drake's wonderful efforts on the JamMan section of the website are now uploaded. Let's all give Ed a hand for his effort, and take a look at: http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tools/jamman/jamman.html Thanks Ed! This is Ed's first attempt at web publishing, and he did just fine... If you have any ideas for the jamman section, let Ed know at: Ed Drake Also, I uploaded the latest profile page a few days ago. If you are not on the profiles page yet, send your specs to Michael Peters for inclusion in the next version. Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> We are averaging about 1400 page downloads a week now (and rising!), so it's not a bad spot to get a little visibility! As always, ideas and submissions for the website are welcomed and encouraged. Collective effort has made it as good as it is, and it can only get better! thanks kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sat Feb 22 20:29:14 1997 >From kflint Sat Feb 22 19:04:13 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vyUEV-0007HD-00; Sat, 22 Feb 1997 19:04:11 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 18:59:15 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: RE: "Jamman" up for a Grammy Resent-Message-ID: <"JFvjqD.A.KrG.-M7Dz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2166 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 19:04:11 -0800 X-UIDL: e40623cf9356a41dc3b90510a812659a >> He also describes Les Paul's first home-brew looping machine (late >1940's) which was dubbed the "Les Paulverizer". > >Never heard of that before - did Chet tell you about the "Les Paulverizer"? >What kind of device was it? How did it work? I'd love to include this info >in our "History of Looping" webpage. A bit of trivia: When I was at Gibson, we periodically kicked around the idea of a footpedal looper, and guess what the working title usually was? Why, Les Paulverizer, of course...... I'm sure Les wouldn't have minded a few extra royalty dollars.... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sat Feb 22 20:29:17 1997 >From kflint Sat Feb 22 19:08:22 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vyUIY-0007YB-00; Sat, 22 Feb 1997 19:08:22 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 19:03:12 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: alternate footpedals for JamMonster? Resent-Message-ID: <"HAOvbC.A.b8G.sQ7Dz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2167 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 19:08:22 -0800 X-UIDL: 512677e3c2c991a36138cb88c41dea35 At 10:48 AM 2/21/97, Chris Chovit wrote: >I am interested in making one box which has all the switches for my looping >setup (2 EDP's & 2 JamMan's). I am envisioning reproducing the EDP >footswitch (w/ an A/B box to switch between the two EDP's) and having 4 >switches for each JamMan (to utilize all the footswitching capability). My >question is: What types of switches do each of the units use? Are they >all momentary switches? normally open or normally closed? > >- chris Check out the Echoplex footpedal tutorial on the web site for info on DIY echoplex pedals. It's pretty easy. url: http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tools/echoplex/echopedals.html I would guess that the jamman uses a momentary normally-open, but you should check with someone who actually knows. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sat Feb 22 20:29:18 1997 >From kflint Sat Feb 22 19:34:49 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vyUi7-0000v1-00; Sat, 22 Feb 1997 19:34:47 -0800 Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 19:32:29 -0800 (PST) From: Stew Benedict Subject: RE: echoplex lead time? To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"UQmPLC.A.Xu.Qp7Dz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2168 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 19:34:47 -0800 X-UIDL: 6c8d15050cc8e7c06923203b70bc76e5 Anyone (Kim?) have any idea when the next batch of 'plexes will be shipping? I've got one on order that I lucked out on a good price due to a misquote than the salesman says he will honor, if they ever ship. Thanks! Stew Benedict From ???@??? Sun Feb 23 04:42:26 1997 >From kflint Sat Feb 22 20:37:26 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vyVgj-0003Xs-00; Sat, 22 Feb 1997 20:37:25 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 20:32:50 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: RE: echoplex lead time? Resent-Message-ID: <"0_Hz3.A._OD.sk8Dz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2169 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 20:37:25 -0800 X-UIDL: 7b5d2fa6336a6ab88281b25e6b7a038d At 7:32 PM 2/22/97, Stew Benedict wrote: >Anyone (Kim?) have any idea when the next batch of 'plexes will >be shipping? I've got one on order that I lucked out on a good >price due to a misquote than the salesman says he will honor, if >they ever ship. > >Thanks! > >Stew Benedict >From what I've been told, a production run is due to be finished at the end of the month. Another will be following shortly after. Probably the first will entirely go to filling back orders, hopefully yours will be one of them! kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Feb 23 13:24:34 1997 >From kflint Sun Feb 23 06:53:23 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vyfIo-0004bB-00; Sun, 23 Feb 1997 06:53:22 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 11:58:27 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: archiving Resent-Message-ID: <"MCBOUB.A.APE.MmFEz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2170 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 06:53:22 -0800 X-UIDL: 4e862b4ebf07a2447f0c41abf60a17f1 >>Since after the following old mail there was no interest shown, aehm... >> >> *trash the archive*, Kim! >Actually, Ed Drake has done quite a bit of great editing. I should have it >up this weekend. It's Jamman related, but actually interesting even if >that's not your looper of choice. > >more is always welcome of course! Sorry, I sent my sentence about one day to soon. The new compilation looks nice! Still, there are a lot of other interesting discussions to treat.. Thanks Matthias From ???@??? Sun Feb 23 14:02:21 1997 >From kflint Sun Feb 23 13:41:48 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vylg3-0004hD-00; Sun, 23 Feb 1997 13:41:47 -0800 Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 16:37:37 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199702232137.QAA00951@shell.monmouth.com> X-Sender: andre@monmouth.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: andre Subject: Central NJ ??? Live Loops plus!!! Resent-Message-ID: <"tvQAG.A.DPE.PjLEz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2171 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 13:41:47 -0800 X-UIDL: abe4601e9c4b5c471f2f69e2c554f600 Status: O X-Status: hey fellow loopheads !!! still looking to hook up a central NJ loopfest - i may have the perfect place - New Brunswick is smack dab in the middle of the state (kinda). i'll be performing a live "Psychotic Loop Exorcism" removing the evil non-looping spirits at the COURT TAVERN, 124 CHURCH ST, NEW BRUNSWICK NJ 908-545-7265 at 10:00pm and it's just $1.00 !!! I'll be abusing a casio mg510, a kawai kIIr, a vortex, an ensoniq mirage, and numerous digital delays and stuff.. My band will be playing at 11:00pm and we do include some loopage - but are very improv based - mostly originals, but some Coltrane, Hendrix, Sonny Sharrock & Zappa... check it out if you're ANYWHERE nearby.. peace and LOOPS AWEIGH !!!! andre'(east) From ???@??? Mon Feb 24 01:25:17 1997 >From kflint Sun Feb 23 14:50:58 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vymkz-00004K-00; Sun, 23 Feb 1997 14:50:57 -0800 Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 14:17:24 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: WARNING: Redunant self-promotional blurb follows immediately! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"xQCVqB.A.zJH.ZkMEz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2172 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 14:50:57 -0800 X-UIDL: 0404e4c5314cbd1b8896b02b2955ca57 'Lo -- Just dropping a reminder that I'll be staging a gig this Thursday here at Cal Arts. The set list has been condensed, and will consist exclusively of a quartet project featuring myself and Miroslav Tadic on guitars and David Shaffer and Bryon Holley on drumsets and percussion. Much looping will abound, as will three King Crimson tunes (including an African-inflected take on "21st Century Schizoid Man"), Frank Zappa's "Five Five FIVE" and a couple of mine own original creations. Anyone interested in the gig should e-mail me for directions or details. We now return to your regularly-scheduled digest... --Andre From ???@??? Mon Feb 24 01:25:19 1997 >From kflint Sun Feb 23 17:23:04 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vyp8B-0007HL-00; Sun, 23 Feb 1997 17:23:03 -0800 X-Mailer: WinNET Mail, v2.61 Message-ID: <868@mainstring.win.net> Reply-To: pk@mainstring.win.net (Pat Kirtley) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 18:27:08 Subject: RE: "Jamman" up for a Grammy From: pk@mainstring.win.net (Pat Kirtley) Resent-Message-ID: <"OGCunD.A.TpG.-yOEz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2173 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 17:23:03 -0800 X-UIDL: 36c6ab742eee01408d10c52de12015ac Pat Kirtley wrote: > He also describes Les Paul's first home-brew looping machine (late 1940's) which was dubbed the "Les Paulverizer". and Michael Peters wrote: >Never heard of that before - did Chet tell you about the "Les >Paulverizer"? What kind of device was it? How did it work? I'd love to >include this info in our "History of Looping" webpage. I really don't know any more than that about the "Paulverizer" except that I've heard it referred to before in a couple of instances. I have a radio transcript, probably from the 40's, where an announcer introduces "Les Paul and his Les Paulverizer". I have been told that there is a story on this topic in the August '94 issue of Vintage Guitar magazine. Also, I have this cryptic clip from a recent magazine article: "Les still uses a Gibson Les Paul guitar, although it is a highly modified one with a microphone built into it, and he runs it through a strange electronic device he calls the "Paulverizer," which enables him to get his trademark multiple guitar sound live." I have a feeling that maybe the Paulverizer is more of a process or concept than an actual, specific device (plus it has a catchy name that is easy for magazine reporters to remember), but I'll find a copy of that magazine and report back. Pat Kirtley From ???@??? Mon Feb 24 01:25:22 1997 >From kflint Sun Feb 23 19:16:51 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vyquH-00053v-00; Sun, 23 Feb 1997 19:16:49 -0800 Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 22:09:27 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199702240309.WAA23689@shell.monmouth.com> X-Sender: secondnature@monmouth.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: andre Subject: Central NJ ??? Live Loops plus!!! Resent-Message-ID: <"J7dlxB.A.lbE.XaQEz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2174 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 19:16:49 -0800 X-UIDL: f04c745ecd11c45aa41c87f5c23c6d03 oh yes, the date.... ....>i'll be performing a live "Psychotic Loop Exorcism" removing the evil >non-looping spirits at the COURT TAVERN, 124 CHURCH ST, NEW BRUNSWICK NJ >908-545-7265 at 10:00pm OOPs !! the DATE of this is WEDNESDAY - FEB 26 !!! that's this wed... and it's just $1.00 !!! I'll be abusing a casio >mg510, a kawai kIIr, a vortex, an ensoniq mirage, and numerous digital >delays and stuff.. > > >andre'(east) > > > > From ???@??? Mon Feb 24 09:33:03 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 24 01:51:36 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vyx4J-0006dz-00; Mon, 24 Feb 1997 01:51:35 -0800 Message-Id: <14565.199702240950@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 09:50:01 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Re: Musicianship, live technique, etc... Resent-Message-ID: <"Fs1JDD.A.5IG.6QWEz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2175 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 01:51:35 -0800 X-UIDL: 37870c3fb761522daf3e59a11b51d49b Chris Meyer: >I heartily agree with this. Some people are so focused on being artists >100% of the time, they either succeed spectacularly or fail spectacularly. >If they can't think of what to say (musically or vocally) in an improv >setting, sometimes they try to force through something inappropriate, end >prematurely, etc. I think in moments like that, it is great to have a >toolchest of things to fall back on when inspiration isn't striking in >realtime. Sometimes I worry that too many musicians are trying to be artists, too few trying to be entertainers. Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb From ???@??? Tue Feb 25 01:02:23 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 24 17:31:42 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vzBk4-0003Hy-00; Mon, 24 Feb 1997 17:31:40 -0800 X-Sender: vajra1@pop3.mho.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 18:27:51 +0100 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: vajra1@mho.net (Robert Phelps) Subject: Re: Artists, entertainers,and necessities Resent-Message-ID: <"ShqlWC.A.DwC.XAkEz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2178 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 17:31:40 -0800 X-UIDL: 50a94e3b75687017bac34e6522f08560 >In a message dated 2/24/97 4:51:04 AM, you wrote: > ><trying to be entertainers.>> > >Artists play FOR an audience, entertainers play TO an audience. Spiritually, >the former is the ideal, monetarily, the latter is a necessity.-Paul Very well said. Thank you. A couple of things might be kept in mind in addition. All thru musical history there have indeed been "artists" who have stayed true to their vision and money came their way irregardless of their relationship to its pursuit. As to "making a living" (if reduced to simply feeding your face and keeping a healthy body, spirit, and mind), I wonder if being an "entertainer" is indeed such a necessity. Some may indeed find such a position an unnatainable luxury due to family, equipment needs,illness, etc. Yet there are those who have made this circumstance a reality thru dedication, sacrifice, and frugality. One of these stations in life is neither "better" or "worse" than the other, yet both should be acknowledged as valid approaches to musical endeavor. Secondly I myself find that any "ideals", whether we consciously strive towards them or merely acknowledge them in intellectual discussion, tend to actually take us further away from that which we think we're propelling ourselves towards. Be it that particularly scathing/soothing loop we'd really like to emerge from somewhere within each night,or even the urge to get across, in a clear concise manner, our individual conceptions of our musical aspirations on this very list. If with this note I've failed at the latter, perhaps it will leave more tinder to fuel the fires of the former tonite! :-) Peace, B.P. P.S. Though I dread the topic like no other former academe, I spose the field is now open to the ol' "what is an "artist"?" shpiels. I should note quickly that IMHO,altho the discussion is an interesting and perhaps an important one, the dichotomy between artist and entertainer takes up an awful lot of musical space in so many folks I've encountered. Let's call ourselves and others whatever we may choose, but the main thing is to make more music and encourage others to do the same. The world as it is can use all we can dish out, in whatever form. From ???@??? Tue Feb 25 01:01:57 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 24 11:26:55 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vz633-0003qb-00; Mon, 24 Feb 1997 11:26:53 -0800 Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 13:22:55 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: cking@xsite.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: cking@xsite.net Subject: Re: Loopers-Delight-d Digest V97 #34 Resent-Message-ID: <"kyaSoB.A.tSD.fqeEz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2176 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 11:26:53 -0800 X-UIDL: 242203c83edc93a4b7e9305d1af35541 > >Does anyone know of a user's group on the Net for the AKAI S2000 or any >general Akai list? I have EMail only access, otherwise I could do a search. > >Thanks, >Victor Try sending an e-mail request to: akai digest request@lettuce.salinas.net or majordomo@lettuce.salinas.net include: subscribe akai-digest (your e-mail address here) in the body of "text", not the subject. This list is for all Akai samplers with lots of Akai S2000 sampler users. Hope this helps. Happy Sampling, Curt King cking@xsite.net Studio Zro Chicago,USA, Earth <><><><><><><><> "Taste is the enemy of art" From ???@??? Tue Feb 25 01:02:21 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 24 16:28:24 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vzAkm-0005OW-00; Mon, 24 Feb 1997 16:28:20 -0800 Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 19:23:39 -0500 (EST) From: PMimlitsch@aol.com Message-ID: <970224192337_-1842670064@emout18.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Musicianship, live technique, etc... Resent-Message-ID: <"0G5so.A.rwE.PFjEz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2177 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 16:28:20 -0800 X-UIDL: ed239727a824079dd32bcc294ae6e5fb In a message dated 2/24/97 4:51:04 AM, you wrote: <> Artists play FOR an audience, entertainers play TO an audience. Spiritually, the former is the ideal, monetarily, the latter is a necessity.-Paul From ???@??? Tue Feb 25 01:02:26 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 24 17:47:00 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vzByr-0004bx-00; Mon, 24 Feb 1997 17:46:57 -0800 X-Sender: musfri@m.imap.itd.umich.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 20:49:32 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: musfri@umich.edu (david friday) Subject: Re: Musicianship, live technique, etc... Resent-Message-ID: <"xmFhgC.A.YHE.AQkEz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2179 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 17:46:57 -0800 X-UIDL: c7760b4e5bd289a3f178b989a428edb7 you make an excellent point, however there has to be a balance between the two we play music because we love it.....we are selfish in that regard because that which comes from our mouths, fingers, minds..we hopefully hold dear and regard as being our own! but we must realize that this disipline is not just for ourselves, there are those who do not have the disipline or interest in making the music, however they whole heartedly wish to share our experience so that they can more deeply explore thier own experiences. I feel that we must play for ourselves because it is our own dear gift, however we must always remember that we are sending a message and providing a service that not only enriches our own lives, but those who believe in us as well. I play music because to do so makes me happy to be alive. However I always try and remember that it is my responsibility as a musician to touch my audience, so that they may share in that happiness and realize that they too..... are alive!!!!!! D. From ???@??? Tue Feb 25 01:02:28 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 24 17:52:23 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vzC42-00057s-00; Mon, 24 Feb 1997 17:52:18 -0800 X-Sender: musfri@m.imap.itd.umich.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 20:54:24 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: musfri@umich.edu (david friday) Subject: Re: Loopers-Delight-d Digest V97 #34 Resent-Message-ID: <"_35tNB.A.ZjE.qUkEz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2180 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 17:52:18 -0800 X-UIDL: 8cca0b1282d50df9d19a1d3efd481155 i'm not quite sure but if you find out let me know... I have an e-mu esi-32 sampler and our sample library's are compatible so i'd like to know too! thanks. From ???@??? Tue Feb 25 01:02:30 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 24 17:55:41 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vzC7E-0005T1-00; Mon, 24 Feb 1997 17:55:36 -0800 X-Sender: musfri@m.imap.itd.umich.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 20:57:06 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: musfri@umich.edu (david friday) Subject: Re: Musicianship, live technique, etc... Resent-Message-ID: <"RtnBqD.A.wyE.GXkEz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2181 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 17:55:36 -0800 X-UIDL: 2a074099ca0c408ee4e195165e59e2f2 wow doc. I wish I knew you.....your a pretty deep fellow! From ???@??? Tue Feb 25 01:02:31 1997 >From kflint Mon Feb 24 18:03:34 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vzCEq-0006Db-00; Mon, 24 Feb 1997 18:03:28 -0800 Message-ID: From: Tom Attix To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Musicianship, live technique, etc... Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 17:59:07 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 Encoding: 42 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"ydr-eD.A.feF.RekEz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2182 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 18:03:28 -0800 X-UIDL: dfbeeba81e445fb2e9cd7154598a7ce4 It's interesting to contrast these views as they relate to music and how they relate to painting or drawing. I think if you brought up the subject of audience's importance to most painters they would give you a long questioning look, right after they finished laughing. Potential audience receptivity is a problem for commercial artists, not "fine" artists. I'm pretty much on the fence, myself. I figure if I don't like what I'm doing, nobody else will, either (although I've been proven wrong on that before..). -Tom Attix _____________________________ toma@microsoft.com _____________________________ Software Test Engineer Microsoft Corporation -----Original Message----- From: musfri@umich.edu [SMTP:musfri@umich.edu] Sent: Monday, February 24, 1997 17:47 To: Tom Attix Subject: Re: Musicianship, live technique, etc... you make an excellent point, however there has to be a balance between the two we play music because we love it.....we are selfish in that regard because that which comes from our mouths, fingers, minds..we hopefully hold dear and regard as being our own! but we must realize that this disipline is not just for ourselves, there are those who do not have the disipline or interest in making the music, however they whole heartedly wish to share our experience so that they can more deeply explore thier own experiences. I feel that we must play for ourselves because it is our own dear gift, however we must always remember that we are sending a message and providing a service that not only enriches our own lives, but those who believe in us as well. I play music because to do so makes me happy to be alive. However I always try and remember that it is my responsibility as a musician to touch my audience, so that they may share in that happiness and realize that they too..... are alive!!!!!! D. From ???@??? Tue Feb 25 23:29:12 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 25 14:15:05 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vzV9M-0005r0-00; Tue, 25 Feb 1997 14:15:04 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 16:32:26 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: Bobby Devito Resent-Message-ID: <"e_b9yC.A.wLF.DO2Ez"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2184 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 14:15:04 -0800 X-UIDL: b1556bc417393c54cda604ff45fae478 Dear Loopers, I noticed that Bobby Devito joined us last week and I just want to take this opportunity to plug his CD Lux Nova! Very good ambient backgrounds with meldoic guitar work snaking through it. And a great use of samples in the right places. Obviously I'm not a reviewr, but I'd urge anyone to snap up his remaining disks at $5 each. He and I traded music recently and I for one am quite impressed. And while your reading this Bobby , congrats on getting signed. I look forward to hearing your work in the future. Patrick :-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_-:-:_- Patrick Smith ..... Patrick@his.com .... ... .. . *** *** ** Fingerpaint http://www.his.com/~patrick/FNGP.html *** ** ^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^ ^^ Solaris Guitar Trio .. .. . .. .http://www.xdc.com/solaris/ :-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_-:-:-:_ From ???@??? Tue Feb 25 09:42:53 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 25 09:11:47 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vzQPp-0004iM-00; Tue, 25 Feb 1997 09:11:45 -0800 Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 12:06:28 -0500 (EST) From: BobbyZZZ@aol.com Message-ID: <970225120627_379385354@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Musicianship, live technique, etc... Resent-Message-ID: <"5VdNSD.A.cFE.VxxEz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2183 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 09:11:45 -0800 X-UIDL: 4bbcffa1a513f0fc12c4737ca3ff327a In a message dated 2/25/97 1:47:34 AM, you wrote: >you make an excellent point, however there has to be a balance between the two >we play music because we love it.....we are selfish in that regard because >that which comes from our mouths, fingers, minds..we hopefully hold dear >and regard as being our own! but we must realize that this disipline is >not just for ourselves, there are those who do not have the disipline or >interest in making the music, however they whole heartedly wish to share >our experience so that they can more deeply explore thier own experiences. >I feel that we must play for ourselves because it is our own dear gift, >however we must always remember that we are sending a message and providing >a service that not only enriches our own lives, but those who believe in us >as well. I play music because to do so makes me happy to be alive. However >I always try and remember that it is my responsibility as a musician to >touch my audience, so that they may share in that >happiness and realize that they too..... are alive!!!!!! bobby devito here.....i just had to add to this topic just once. i was at an art show recently, and came upon a most wonderful nylon string guitarist named russell. he was REALLY playing quite well, was a soloist, and was performing largely his own original compositions as well as a few covers in his own style. i sat back with my slice of cheese pizza and iced tea and just basked in his playing for about an hour...people just walked by and for the most part barely gave him a cursory glance, but he played like he was onstage at Madison Square Garden. when he took a break, i asked him how he dealt with the fact that many of the people at the art shows (he travels around the country with the show) seem not even to notice his amazing music, he just laughed..."the gods are listening", he said with a smile. "and that's who i'm playing for"...it kind of made me think a bit more deeply about why i do what i do and for whom :-) bobby d From ???@??? Tue Feb 25 23:29:17 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 25 14:31:32 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vzVPA-0007Eg-00; Tue, 25 Feb 1997 14:31:24 -0800 Date: 25 Feb 97 17:23:50 EST From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: Musicianship, live technique, etc... Message-ID: <970225222349_74074.1316_GHP111-2@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"xaRzVB.A.yUG.7b2Ez"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2186 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 14:31:24 -0800 X-UIDL: cab303dab95ae17d2bf6e58046c1412b Hi Gang, Shameless plug: Back from mixing/mastering my new record (Silent Extinction Beyond the Zero) at David Torn's and I'm most excited. A truly inspiring thing to have Tony Levin playing on it, then having DT mix it! Wow. It'll be available mid-March, and you can check it out at http://www.musicpro.com/alchemy/ (the page will be updated by next week.) Or you can call 800-292-6932. OK, shameless plug over now... Michael wrote: >Sometimes I worry that too many musicians are trying to be artists, too few >trying to be entertainers. Hmmm. Interesting thread. The artist/entertainer line is very fine. (not unlike the line between "clever and stupid"!!!) I'm reminded of the Torn/Trilok Gurtu show at the Bottom Line in New York a coupla years ago. Torn opened with his "pretty loud guitar" set: artsitically very cool. As for entertainment value, I suspect much of the crowd was kinda confused. Then Trilok's band came out and put on a very tight, well executed thoroughly "choreographed" set. The crowd responded quite enthusiastically. Especially to the vocal drumming by the entire band. I must admit I got a good chuckle out of it, and was really taken with how exceptional the chops level was. However: For the second show (two shows that night), I watched Torn's set, and could only sit through two tunes before I was compelled to go backstage and sit w/DT during Trilok's set. And BTW, I really like much of Trilok's music. It was the "entertainment" I couldn't accept. I simply wanted to hear the music and the musicians, and the rest got in my way. So, Dr. Mike: I'm guilty as charged. I guess we're now big-time enemies!!! From ???@??? Tue Feb 25 23:29:34 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 25 15:13:58 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vzW4L-0003HW-00; Tue, 25 Feb 1997 15:13:57 -0800 Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 18:10:48 -0500 From: neato@pipeline.com X-Sender: neato@pop.pipeline.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Musicianship, live technique, etc... Resent-Message-ID: <"noVUTB.A.71C.BG3Ez"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2188 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 15:13:57 -0800 X-UIDL: 9484800d5a798a61eca5a6c60590f926 >Michael wrote: >>Sometimes I worry that too many musicians are trying to be artists, too few >>trying to be entertainers. neato says: that's something i never see the need to worry about...a look at the popular top 100 charts and the 99% of the musicians trying to get on them, shows there's plenty of room left for artists -music is about communion with the higher self i.e force, god, nature (whatever you prefer to label it)..if it happens to entertain some people at the same time, great...but that is far beyond the scope of pure entertainment! -i worry too much redundant b.s., not enough high art cheers all my mistakes were once acts of genius neato@pipeline com From ???@??? Tue Feb 25 23:29:41 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 25 18:55:49 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vzZX1-0006BG-00; Tue, 25 Feb 1997 18:55:47 -0800 Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 21:49:00 -0500 (EST) From: BobbyZZZ@aol.com Message-ID: <970225214859_685258862@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Bobby Devito Resent-Message-ID: <"Fd8fwB.A.BXF.fT6Ez"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2189 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 18:55:47 -0800 X-UIDL: da59897eab5cd335cc707d059454fc41 In a message dated 2/25/97 7:42:05 PM, you wrote: >I noticed that Bobby Devito joined us last week and I just want to take >this opportunity to plug his CD Lux Nova! Very good ambient backgrounds >with meldoic guitar work snaking through it. And a great use of samples in >the right places. >Obviously I'm not a reviewr, but I'd urge anyone to snap up his remaining >disks at $5 each. > >He and I traded music recently and I for one am quite impressed. And while >your reading this Bobby , congrats on getting signed. I look forward to >hearing your work in the future. > >Patrick thank you very much patrick! there are a limited number of these LVX NOVA CD's still here, they are an "advance" copy...and they are only $5 to any of you while they last. then we will have an official release here in the USA by MIRAMAR (god love them!) and in europe and japan by R&S Records. and if any of you out there would rather TRADE me a copy of your CD or tape or LP, i'd actually prefer that to $$$ :-) yes! bobby devito/lvx nova From ???@??? Tue Feb 25 23:29:59 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 25 22:11:50 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vzcai-0004nl-00; Tue, 25 Feb 1997 22:11:48 -0800 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 01:07:14 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199702260607.BAA27961@shell.monmouth.com> X-Sender: andre@monmouth.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: andre Subject: Tony Williams... Resent-Message-ID: <"2gt8CC.A.GOE.MN9Ez"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2190 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 22:11:48 -0800 X-UIDL: a6b56df86eefa8a6b92648903e565e9b Lets all give some thought to the great work of one of the masters... Tony Williams. i know this is not exactly Loop-material... but it's somehow related.. Tony died at 51 this week, of a heart attack , following gall bladder surgery.. RIP thanks for defining the groove. thanks to Miles for grabbing him at 17 ! Do a Loop for Tony tonight. I know i will cheers. andre' From ???@??? Wed Feb 26 00:51:45 1997 >From kflint Wed Feb 26 00:14:40 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vzeVZ-0003pj-00; Wed, 26 Feb 1997 00:14:37 -0800 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 03:11:58 -0500 (EST) From: WBrake@aol.com Message-ID: <970226031158_650945041@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Tony Williams... Resent-Message-ID: <"8G__GD.A.seD.MC_Ez"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2191 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 00:14:37 -0800 X-UIDL: b3b4ce799dfa4591c93ca1d7cc01fc33 I couldn't agree more. A fusion pioneer, Tony created music that was new and interesting, much like many of us. He will be greatly missed! Will Funkster From ???@??? Wed Feb 26 10:28:54 1997 >From kflint Wed Feb 26 04:36:13 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vziai-000439-00; Wed, 26 Feb 1997 04:36:12 -0800 Date: 26 Feb 97 07:32:21 EST From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: Tony Williams... Message-ID: <970226123220_74074.1316_GHP68-2@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"JBcNDC.A.LuD.u3CFz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2192 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 04:36:12 -0800 X-UIDL: 73bb4f39ff9bf863d692bb4b1883a028 Tony. Hmmm. Sad day. He will sorely be missed by all. One of the great musicians ever to grace these pathetic little ears. From ???@??? Wed Feb 26 10:29:01 1997 >From kflint Wed Feb 26 07:28:20 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vzlHH-000334-00; Wed, 26 Feb 1997 07:28:19 -0800 Message-Id: <17892.199702261525@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 15:25:16 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Re: Musicianship, live technique, etc... Resent-Message-ID: <"F9ELpC.A.LrC.UXFFz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2194 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 07:28:19 -0800 X-UIDL: f870326b95cc294fe2d073b672976702 > A truly inspiring thing >to have Tony Levin playing on it, then having DT mix it! Wow. Well, I'm getting new viruses delivered soon! Nahh... you win. Congratulations! I'm jealous again!!! >Michael wrote: >>Sometimes I worry that too many musicians are trying to be artists, too few >>trying to be entertainers. > >Hmmm. Interesting thread. The artist/entertainer line is very fine. (not unlike >the line between "clever and stupid"!!!) I'm reminded of the Torn/Trilok Gurtu >show at the Bottom Line in New York a coupla years ago. Torn opened with his >"pretty loud guitar" set: artsitically very cool. As for entertainment value, I >suspect much of the crowd was kinda confused. Then Trilok's band came out and >put on a very tight, well executed thoroughly "choreographed" set. The crowd >responded quite enthusiastically. Especially to the vocal drumming by the >>entire band. I must admit I got a good chuckle out of it, and was really >taken >with how exceptional the chops level was. This is, perhaps, the balance; Torn's music was deeper, but the appeal of Trilok was broader. Those who "got" David's music may have gotten far more out of the experience, but those will shallower expectations, out for the evening after a long day at work and with a copy of Jazziz under their arm, jst wanted a good time. Remember also that we have an advantage over most of the audience, being musicians. Ever been told by a non-musician who "the greatest player in the world" is? Usually, they're pretty amusing. >So, Dr. Mike: I'm guilty as charged. I guess we're now big-time enemies!!! I thought we were after the Vortex debate :) What was that about??? Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Wha's like us? Damn few, and they're a' deid!" - Scottish proverb From ???@??? Wed Feb 26 10:29:20 1997 >From kflint Wed Feb 26 09:12:11 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vzmtj-0002BD-00; Wed, 26 Feb 1997 09:12:07 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 09:35:22 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: RE: alternate footpedals for JamMonster? Resent-Message-ID: <"bmDqP.A.AzB.A5GFz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2195 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 09:12:07 -0800 X-UIDL: 8377f327634701ac8e8d0d4a61e3348a >Trevor stated:"I was thinking that it would be a swell idea to use two >sustain pedals >plugged into this Y-dingus and has a slightly more tap friendly pedal >contraption. Will this work? Do I need the normally open kind or the >normally closed?" > >I do not think the sustain pedals will work as well as the momentary >switch because you have many increments of open and only one increment of >closed. I suspect that the switch will respond in a faster manner. The >switches are normally open. > Actually, a sustain pedal works great. One tap starts recording, a second tap stops it, just like the stock footswitch, but it seems easier, for me at least, to start recording a loop in time with the sustain pedal. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Wed Feb 26 10:29:24 1997 >From kflint Wed Feb 26 10:22:28 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vznzn-0000Iz-00; Wed, 26 Feb 1997 10:22:27 -0800 Date: 26 Feb 97 13:16:16 EST From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: Musicianship, live technique, etc... Message-ID: <970226181616_74074.1316_GHP44-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"kKAxmC.A.aRH.85HFz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2197 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 10:22:27 -0800 X-UIDL: 17e454726ed1e1602c1d840c167e054f Dr. Michael writes, >I thought we were after the Vortex debate :) What was that about??? Just that we're once again on opposite sides of the virtual fence. i.e. I worry that too many artists are too concerned about entertainment and not enough about music... Later, Jon From ???@??? Tue Feb 25 23:29:13 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 25 14:20:15 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vzVEL-0006HV-00; Tue, 25 Feb 1997 14:20:13 -0800 Message-Id: <9702252209.AA12390@beryllium.lexicon.com> Priority: urgent Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 13:58:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: RE: alternate footpedals for JamMonster? To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V4.00a)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"6bkA7.A.KsF.GU2Ez"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2185 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 14:20:13 -0800 X-UIDL: 64743262d22de7ba958a6baa1bf812fc At 10:48 AM 2/21/97, Chris Chovit wrote: >I am interested in making one box which has all the switches for my looping >setup (2 EDP's & 2 JamMan's). I am envisioning reproducing the EDP >footswitch (w/ an A/B box to switch between the two EDP's) and having 4 >switches for each JamMan (to utilize all the footswitching capability). My >question is: What types of switches do each of the units use? Are they >all momentary switches? normally open or normally closed? > >- chris and on February 25, 1997 at 6:44 AM kim replied: "I would guess that the jamman uses a momentary normally-open, but you should check with someone who actually knows." This is correct. All of the JAMMANs footswitches are momentary and normally open. Please let me know if you have any questions or if there is anything that I can do for you. Best regards, Greg Hogan Lexicon Customer Service Phone 617-280-0372 FAX 617-280-0499 email: ghogan@lexicon.com From ???@??? Wed Feb 26 10:28:56 1997 >From kflint Wed Feb 26 04:41:57 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vzigG-0004HC-00; Wed, 26 Feb 1997 04:41:56 -0800 Sender: soft@nyfac.com Message-ID: <331487E6.41C6@nyfac.com> Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 13:58:46 -0500 From: nyfac X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; IRIX 5.3 IP22) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Musicianship, live technique, etc... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-QVt_B.A.H8D.P9CFz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2193 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 04:41:56 -0800 X-UIDL: e860d662c1fb3985e31e6f7e3527d738 I have always been able to easily list my career objectives as a musician: 1) Be in a band with friends. 2) Play at least three times a week with good equipment. 3) Have everybody in the band like what the other members are doing. 4) Record a lot. Without these four things, no band is really successful (unless they are making TONS of money :-)). With them, nothing else really matters. Oddly enough, I have yet to be in a wholly successful band. Trevor From ???@??? Tue Feb 25 23:29:19 1997 >From kflint Tue Feb 25 14:33:03 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vzVQj-0007OL-00; Tue, 25 Feb 1997 14:33:01 -0800 Message-Id: <9702252232.AA12444@beryllium.lexicon.com> Priority: urgent Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 14:08:00 -0500 From: "Hogan, Greg" Subject: RE: alternate footpedals for JamMonster? To: Loopers-Delight X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V4.00a)/MIME Resent-Message-ID: <"kkNjvB.A.EoG.ef2Ez"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2187 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 14:33:01 -0800 X-UIDL: 5e1ccc2739a397c71225af75db2bf756 Trevor stated:"I was thinking that it would be a swell idea to use two sustain pedals plugged into this Y-dingus and has a slightly more tap friendly pedal contraption. Will this work? Do I need the normally open kind or the normally closed?" I do not think the sustain pedals will work as well as the momentary switch because you have many increments of open and only one increment of closed. I suspect that the switch will respond in a faster manner. The switches are normally open. Please let me know if you have any questions or if there is anything that I can do for you. Best regards, Greg Hogan Lexicon Customer Service Phone 617-280-0372 FAX 617-280-0499 email: ghogan@lexicon.com From ???@??? Wed Feb 26 20:07:00 1997 >From kflint Wed Feb 26 12:00:45 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vzpWs-0000jy-00; Wed, 26 Feb 1997 12:00:42 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 17:01:28 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Musicianship, live technique, etc... Resent-Message-ID: <"ueSu_.A.qQ.DVJFz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2198 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 12:00:42 -0800 X-UIDL: 3613aefd49b151d70e34705a1d2a42a9 >Michael wrote: >>Sometimes I worry that too many musicians are trying to be artists, too few >>trying to be entertainers. To me, art can be usefull or not. If its not (to us), then it might be for the gods, and thus we never know its totaly useless. But its nice to find a situation where the art fits the needs of the public. Entertaining is probably just one of those situations. Or we have to distinguish between entertaining for dancing, working, loving, praying, military discipline, story telling... To entertain musicians, "art" would be the right form? Jon: >...And BTW, I really >like much of Trilok's music. It was the "entertainment" I couldn't accept. I >simply wanted to hear the music and the musicians, and the rest got in my way. > >So, Dr. Mike: I'm guilty as charged. I guess we're now big-time enemies!!! why? I liked Triloks druming a lot, too, and ended up buying his CD crazy saints, and do not listen to it... I met him about two years ago and he was very much interested in looping and thought he could do a show with a ex WeatherReport member on this base. But then I never heard of him again. Does anyone know whether these shows happend, whether he does looping, or his email adress? Matthias From ???@??? Wed Feb 26 20:07:29 1997 >From kflint Wed Feb 26 16:09:01 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vztP8-0005CD-00; Wed, 26 Feb 1997 16:08:58 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 16:30:13 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Tony Williams... Resent-Message-ID: <"k40-jB.A.QcE.09MFz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2199 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 16:08:58 -0800 X-UIDL: 98cded963874492711cbe782b091f860 >Lets all give some thought to the great work of one of the masters... > >Tony Williams. > > > >i know this is not exactly Loop-material... but it's somehow related.. Tony >died at 51 this week, of a heart attack , following gall bladder surgery.. > >RIP > >thanks for defining the groove. thanks to Miles for grabbing him at 17 ! > >Do a Loop for Tony tonight. I know i will > This is the saddest thing I've heard all week. 51 was far too young. His playing on the Arcana CD of last year, with Derek Bailey and Bill Laswell, showed that he was still an innovator. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Thu Feb 27 09:17:16 1997 >From kflint Wed Feb 26 21:07:27 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vzy3y-00043g-00; Wed, 26 Feb 1997 21:07:26 -0800 From: sarajane@tmbsbbs.com (Sarajane) Subject: a lost post...perhaps Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 01:27:40 GMT Message-Id: <970226220003333@tmbsbbs.com> Organization: The Malibu Bikini Shop BBS - 303.772.8549 - 28.8 To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Resent-Message-ID: <"ffhnDB.A.JkD.PXRFz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2201 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 21:07:26 -0800 X-UIDL: 195dd8d85f9d5e8161fe88901525b231 And again..... I don't believe the folowing post made it across the vast expanse of cyberspace that seemingly surrounds Colorado.Also let me pre-P.S. that I remember hearing Elvin Jones talk about the fact that once in Philadelphia at a gig wth Coltrane they did a three hour rendition of this one tune and that the experience was not lost on either the players or the audience.Also Mr. Williams will be sorely missed....51 years old...man that sucks.PeaceDear Loopers, In response to this thread of artists/entertainers perhaps the problem lies in perspective or lack thereof. Instrumental music is truly blessed with a total absence of the linquistics and semantics broohaha that seems to scuttle and leave for dead the majority of other musical styles. It's sad enough that even without this burden there is the perpetual critical analysis of the form as it relates to composition and notation. Critics make more money talking about this vapid pursuit of labels and form than most musicians will ever see as result of having created the work in question, furthering that insulted injury by requiring one to declare his/her intention (art or entertainment) is poor use of our limited time on this plane of existance and of no value musically, though an interesting exercise in verbal play. In that the majority of the works created in the forum of "looped" music falls clearly into the instrumental (or at least non-lyrical) catagory, I propose that this music and it's players deserve a kinder fate than can possibly be reached through an extended dialogue about labels and the value therein. Bryan Helm (Looper...not artist.. not entertainer) "Shut up and play yer guitar" Frank Zappa From ???@??? Thu Feb 27 09:17:15 1997 >From kflint Wed Feb 26 20:54:35 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vzxrW-00036C-00; Wed, 26 Feb 1997 20:54:34 -0800 Message-ID: <331506AA.392D@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 20:59:38 -0700 From: Shelley Reply-To: spoticha@earthlink.net Organization: STPP X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Tony Williams... References: <970226031158_650945041@emout15.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"T1wqPC.A.jiC.uJRFz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2200 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 20:54:34 -0800 X-UIDL: 7d73cfb49b105cebe59bf9ad131c0a92 I had the opportunity to see Tony Williams in early January at Yoshi's nightclub in Oakland California with mulgrew miller and other young lions forming a solid quartet. Tony was extremely percussive - sometimes pushing out the other players with a his explosive runs. I had mixed feelings after the show - his sound and approach was so overwhelming that the other players as opposed to say Paul Motian and Blakey - but his was a volcanic force to be reckoned with - an approach - that the tone of wood, skins and stick is in itself a melodic attack not unlike that of a cecil taylor on piano or an ornette on Sax. From ???@??? Thu Feb 27 09:17:17 1997 >From kflint Wed Feb 26 22:53:12 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vzziJ-0002vu-00; Wed, 26 Feb 1997 22:53:11 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 23:16:31 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: alternate footpedals for JamMonster? Resent-Message-ID: <"agah_B.A.kjC.r6SFz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2202 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 22:53:11 -0800 X-UIDL: 7cd9d91b7be44ea04cfb81152995a985 >Dave Trenkel wrote: >> > >> Actually, a sustain pedal works great. One tap starts recording, a second >> tap stops it, just like the stock footswitch, but it seems easier, for me >> at least, to start recording a loop in time with the sustain pedal. > >When I had one pedal hooked up thru the y-splitter, it was acting a bit >funky. Do you need to have two of them hooked up? > >How do you have yours hooked up, Dave? > The pedal I'm using has 2 piano-style sustain pedals in one housing, with a stereo 1/4" plug on the attached cord. There's no brand name listed on the pedal, but I think it may be a Roland, I got it on a trade deal with a Roland keyboard. I found it on a bvax one day, plugged it into the j-man, and it's worked fine ever since. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Wed Feb 26 10:29:21 1997 >From kflint Wed Feb 26 10:04:53 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0vznil-0006ZV-00; Wed, 26 Feb 1997 10:04:51 -0800 Sender: soft@nyfac.com Message-ID: <3315D1D9.41C6@nyfac.com> Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 13:26:33 -0500 From: nyfac X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; IRIX 5.3 IP22) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: alternate footpedals for JamMonster? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2zR04B.A.v5F.upHFz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2196 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 10:04:51 -0800 X-UIDL: 129ad4b54c65bcf98da66a9f07467ebd Dave Trenkel wrote: > > Actually, a sustain pedal works great. One tap starts recording, a second > tap stops it, just like the stock footswitch, but it seems easier, for me > at least, to start recording a loop in time with the sustain pedal. When I had one pedal hooked up thru the y-splitter, it was acting a bit funky. Do you need to have two of them hooked up? How do you have yours hooked up, Dave? Trevor From ???@??? Fri Feb 28 01:32:18 1997 >From kflint Thu Feb 27 10:38:21 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w0Aih-000608-00; Thu, 27 Feb 1997 10:38:19 -0800 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 11:30:28 -0700 (MST) From: Dan Howarth To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com cc: stickwire-l@netcom.com Subject: Tim Reynolds looping with Dave Matthews Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Ii8MSD.A.VIF.8MdFz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2203 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 10:38:19 -0800 X-UIDL: 88c3e8ba8372913adffca84fb26023c8 the above two fellas came by Tucson the other night for a relaxed acoustic show. it was quite fun; i was fifteen feet away (working security) for the whole show, so i had a great view. if you don't know TR, he's the acoustic/electric wizard who appears on all DMband albums, as well as Greg Howard's Shapes album, and three Sticks and Stones albums with Greg. he played Dave's songs with flair, adding McLaughlin-like flashy runs into the popsongs. best part, though, was his use of two Boss pedals and a volume/wah pedal to accentuate everything going on. i don't know the pedals, but he was able to setup reverbs, delays, loops, pitch-shift, and samples. in any case, he set up beautiful looped drones and frippian ostinatos. he did a solo spot which included a workout of some piece he'd written - which seemed to use every single aspect of his two pedals. he also frequently detuned the low E string to the root of the appropriate song for LOW bass lines. i think he was using a Martin (probably one of those D28 dreadnought things). interesting effect: percussive knocks on the body of the acoustic, which were pitch-shift/detuned to thicken and then delayed - and then looped into a backbeat for the song. anyhow... a great show, for frat boys, hippies, and loopers alike. **************************************************************** ** Dan Howarth, History/Music, University of Arizona, Tucson ** ** http://www.u.arizona.edu/~howarth (under construction) ** **************************************************************** From ???@??? Fri Feb 28 01:32:21 1997 >From kflint Thu Feb 27 12:28:25 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w0CRC-00070n-00; Thu, 27 Feb 1997 12:28:22 -0800 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 15:24:23 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199702272024.PAA23856@shell.monmouth.com> X-Sender: andre@monmouth.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: andre Subject: Re: Tony Williams... Resent-Message-ID: <"FhFfn.A.5UG.12eFz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2204 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 12:28:22 -0800 X-UIDL: c9ccf02382ef4ae47036194a4b83b4db >> >This is the saddest thing I've heard all week. 51 was far too young. His >playing on the Arcana CD of last year, with Derek Bailey and Bill Laswell, >showed that he was still an innovator. damn =- thanks for reminding me---i had heard about that and still don't have it - isn't there 2 cds out of those guys? or at least 2 with Laswell...? peace, andre From ???@??? Fri Feb 28 01:32:47 1997 >From kflint Thu Feb 27 16:05:18 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w0Fp7-00015z-00; Thu, 27 Feb 1997 16:05:17 -0800 Message-ID: <331620F9.1A2D@gte.net> Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 19:04:09 -0500 From: future perfect Reply-To: artmusic@gte.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Florida Guitar Show References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Owhu2B.A.Cq.IBiFz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2205 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 16:05:17 -0800 X-UIDL: 554fc466e152a2bf4c427ff561e3ed48 Just to let y'all know that this Saturday (March 1st), a few of the subscribers to this list will be playing at the Florida Guitar Show at Thoroughbred Music in Clearwater. My group is called "Future Perfect" and while its not loopy stuff per se, its a mix of ambient/prog/Rennaissancy (the band and time period) music..lots of midi guitar, Soundscapes, flute etc. LVX NOVA will also perform (I can't wait to see them!!!)...I know we play at 11:30am, but I'm not sure when LVX NOVA is playing. My band also played there at another event back in October, and we were lucky enough to have Patrick Moraz in the audience!! He seemed to like it, and even requested we play a King Crimson song..ah, delight! Anyway, hope to see some of ya out there!! Dave From ???@??? Fri Feb 28 01:32:48 1997 >From kflint Thu Feb 27 17:03:03 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w0Gj0-000612-00; Thu, 27 Feb 1997 17:03:02 -0800 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 19:57:58 -0500 (EST) From: BobbyZZZ@aol.com Message-ID: <970227195755_-1941730714@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Florida Guitar Show Resent-Message-ID: <"X_G4vD.A._TF.e3iFz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2206 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 17:03:02 -0800 X-UIDL: 66e8162ec1e27caa9bab674bbf832ecb n a message dated 2/27/97 7:38:25 PM, you wrote: >ust to let y'all know that this Saturday (March 1st), a few of the >subscribers to this list will be playing at the Florida Guitar Show at >Thoroughbred Music in Clearwater. My group is called "Future Perfect" >and while its not loopy stuff per se, its a mix of >ambient/prog/Rennaissancy (the band and time period) music..lots of midi >guitar, Soundscapes, flute etc. LVX NOVA will also perform (I can't wait >to see them!!!)...I know we play at 11:30am, but I'm not sure when LVX >NOVA is playing. My band also played there at another event back in >October, and we were lucky enough to have Patrick Moraz in the >audience!! He seemed to like it, and even requested we play a King >Crimson song..ah, delight! Anyway, hope to see some of ya out there!! >Dave hi all! yes, LVX NOVA will be there at the Florida Guitar Show. should be a fun day, i always enjoy playing the show and meeting all the guitarists that come every year. LVX NOVA will be performing at 1:30 pm in the gardens, however, it will be myself along with a DAT tape...my partner mike is doing a gig a bit too far south to make it back for saturday afternoon (boo hiss :-)). hope to see any of you there! and thanks for all the trade offers i got for the LVX NOVA CD, i can't wait to hear all of your music. the "fingerpaint" cassette is really cool, i've had that one in my tape player a few times this week :-) 300 tons of flax! bobby d/lvx nova From ???@??? Fri Feb 28 01:32:52 1997 >From kflint Thu Feb 27 17:37:05 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w0HFs-0000zs-00; Thu, 27 Feb 1997 17:37:00 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 17:59:15 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Tony Williams... Resent-Message-ID: <"Ykpj_C.A.mj.QXjFz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2207 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 17:37:00 -0800 X-UIDL: ab8cc32193eac83d078e4b451c0f490b >>> >>This is the saddest thing I've heard all week. 51 was far too young. His >>playing on the Arcana CD of last year, with Derek Bailey and Bill Laswell, >>showed that he was still an innovator. > > >damn =- thanks for reminding me---i had heard about that and still don't >have it - isn't there 2 cds out of those guys? or at least 2 with Laswell...? > >peace, andre I think there's another Arcana disc either recently released or soon to be so, with 2 horn players replacing Bailey, I think it's Byard Lancaster and Pharoah Sanders, but I'm not to positive on that. But the Bailey/Laswell/Williams disc is phenomenal, I can't recommend it highly ebough. It's where fusion should have gone after the early LIfetime/Mahavishnu records. It's on the Japanese DIW label, and it's called "Arcana: The Last Wave" ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Fri Feb 28 01:32:58 1997 >From kflint Thu Feb 27 18:13:35 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w0HpE-00041O-00; Thu, 27 Feb 1997 18:13:32 -0800 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 18:01:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: lowfrqcy@west.net (Ryan Blum) Subject: Arcana (was Re: Tony Williams...) Resent-Message-ID: <"13NJF.A.XWD.u3jFz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2208 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 18:13:32 -0800 X-UIDL: b5970402556beb2ef3e4b451fe433de1 Hello... >I think there's another Arcana disc either recently released or soon to be >so, with 2 horn players replacing Bailey, I think it's Byard Lancaster and also, it said in that Guitar Player 30th anniversary issue (with all the wackos =) ) that buckethead would be on a Arcana disc with laswell, pharoah, tony williams, and others. Did anything come of this? Ryan ---- Ryan Blum "...to play 'Giant Steps' because you can seems lowfrqcy@west.net ridiculous to me. I went through that, but ironwood stick #918 I was 14 years old." - John Medeski From ???@??? Fri Feb 28 01:33:01 1997 >From kflint Thu Feb 27 18:42:25 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w0IH8-0006G9-00; Thu, 27 Feb 1997 18:42:22 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 23:43:47 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Musicianship, live technique, etc... Resent-Message-ID: <"foHfjC.A.hgF.JUkFz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2210 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 18:42:22 -0800 X-UIDL: b3a0b3cc80bf6cd00e584d622604d4db David said: >These are great questions that any improvisor has to face, and the problems >are made worse by the dense and often static nature of looping music. For me, the loop was the popularizer of my music. Its still not exactly comercial, but repetition makes it easy to digest. When I play without loop nothing ever repeats. I keep changing and traveling through harmonies and rythms... its a special style, which only makes sense, if the listener is following closely or not paying atention at all, while the loop lets people wave into the wave.. I liked Davids exercises and would like to add one: 1. Start with an idiot simple rule like playing over just one cord without rythm and try doing it beautifull. Thats not easy. Do not critisize the simplicity but love the sound. 2. When you feel realy well and synced with the partner, slowly let go and play other harmonies and start rhythms, never pushing it, so you continue feeling fine (never mind some passing disharmony). After a (long) while you note that you play complex things you thought you could only play together with previous planing. Doing this frequently you end up having the toolbox, the licks, the camp of possibilities David is writing about, without beeing conscious of it. On stage you play fine, thinking that ist all new (which passes a fresh feeling to the public!), while really you just move around in the camp you determined by all the previous sessions (and extend it a little!). Just ideas Matthias From ???@??? Fri Feb 28 01:33:00 1997 >From kflint Thu Feb 27 18:42:08 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w0IGt-0006F2-00; Thu, 27 Feb 1997 18:42:07 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 23:43:55 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Anti-MIDI looping Resent-Message-ID: <"PmHQmB.A.bcF.kTkFz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2209 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 18:42:07 -0800 X-UIDL: b1f97d1185f7a74b370f43284d97c0d7 bobby devito said, a while ago: >hi all! > i need to decide between the Echoplex and the TC 2290 for delays and looping >for live work. has anyone been able to contact Oberheim for service lately? i >have heard some SAD things about their support lately....can the echoplex >sync up to MIDI clock? we only have one MIDI-CV converter in our band so >far....any of you out there use the TC 2290??? i can get my hands on one for >pretty cheap, and it's been memory expanded already...please help if you're >out there :-) I think nobody answered this... I used the 2290 between 85 and 88 and made a lot of nice music with it. In terms of sound quality its marvelous. The mechanics (keys etc) could not be better. The design is beautyfull and the display clear - one of the best audio processors made. BUT: Its not really a looping device. While you record the first bit (using LEARN as tap) you hear a repetition in the old tempo. Even Overdub you have to create first, either with external HW or programming the machine (I did not have the sound on sound option) To multiply, I read the display, multiplied it in my head and typed the value in the key pad. Feedback is only analog. Either you freeze, or you loose each repetition (very little though, the quality is amazing). No Undo, no sync, no brother no insert no inverse no... Its too big and heavy for my handy rack. From ???@??? Fri Feb 28 01:33:03 1997 >From kflint Thu Feb 27 18:47:09 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w0ILk-0006gj-00; Thu, 27 Feb 1997 18:47:08 -0800 Message-ID: <33166223.1F49@interaccess.com> Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 20:42:34 -0800 From: Jim Coker X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Adham Shaikh, Soleilmoon.com, Kyma, Computer Music Tutorial Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_2mN3B.A.E9F.IZkFz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2211 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 18:47:08 -0800 X-UIDL: e05ab791d64eeb2b3a14ab19a2ac304c Just wanted to poke in with a few items that should be of interest to loopers: Adham Shaikh has a new ambient CD out on Instinct Records w/ guitarist Tim Floyd. This stuff is very reminicent of Eno's On Land, as well as Eno and Michael Brook's Hybrid, with lots of looped ambient sounds, acoustic guitar, and creative reverberation. I'm also a big fan of Adham's earlier disk, Journey to the Sun. The record label Soleilmoon has a new web site, http://www.soleilmoon.com. They carry loads of interesting obscure stuff, like the tribal-ambient band 'O Yuki Conjugate'. I've been sending them email to try to get them to put sound clips on their site, like the excellent one Alchemy has :) I was lucky enough to spend some time with the Kyma system at Symbolic Sound a couple weeks ago, and have to say that in addition to all the other things it can do, Kyma makes a kick-ass looper. The wavetable RAM (i.e. were digital audio is held) can be configured to hold any number of delays and samples, then sampler objects can be used to read from delays or samples (or any part of wavetable memory). The sampler objects can have their playback rates and looping points modified in real time by any control signal (midi CC, envelope folowers, etc). Using an lfo on the playback rate, we were able to get a chorus effect, and by moving the looping points w/ midi CC messages, all sorts of neat rythmic modulations could be created from a simple starting pattern. There are various mixer objects that can be used to layer signals, and on top of all that, the system can read and write audio to disk at any point in the signal chain. Anyway, there's an awful lot of depth to Kyma. If anyone's interested, I could probably be coerced into writing more. One thing that was really impressive is how friendly Carla Scaletti and Kurt Hebel are, and how dedicated they are to this system. Here is clearly one of those rare cases where a wonderful idea has not been diluted by its implementation. One last note, somewhat related to the above, I recently picked up a new book by Curtis Roads, _The Computer Music Tutorial_, which has all sorts of useful information out synthesis (subtractive, additive, FM, waveshaping, physical modelling, the whole enchilada), as well as related things such as midi, effects processing, and such, all of it covered in a very clear, readable style. It has, for instance, the best descriptions of phasing and flanging I've seen anywhere. It also has a truly exhaustive set of references for anyone who is looking for more. Not cheap ($55), but well worth it. jim From ???@??? Fri Feb 28 09:46:58 1997 >From kflint Fri Feb 28 07:57:51 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w0Ugv-0005Ck-00; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 07:57:49 -0800 Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 10:50:47 -0500 (EST) From: KILLINFO@aol.com Message-ID: <970228105046_-904301352@emout13.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Makin' a move... Resent-Message-ID: <"-u9vED.A.jhE.W8vFz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2212 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 07:57:49 -0800 X-UIDL: 591dfc734e1a289ede54df3a05159e4f Greetings Loopers, I have just recently been offered a job opportunity in the Pacific Northwest (Medford, Oregon to br exact) that is simply too good to pass up. So, I'll soon be leaving my position at Seymour Duncan and hittin' the new "Oregon Trail", I-5. Any loopfolk in that neck of the woods? Ted Killian From ???@??? Fri Feb 28 09:47:07 1997 >From kflint Fri Feb 28 08:18:35 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w0V0z-0006bj-00; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 08:18:33 -0800 Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 11:14:15 -0500 (EST) From: RA336@aol.com Message-ID: <970228111413_752558759@emout13.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Adham Shaikh, Soleilmoon.com, Kyma, Computer Music Tutorial Resent-Message-ID: <"s8KitD.A.B8F.WSwFz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2213 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 08:18:33 -0800 X-UIDL: 18245183ab00a8cc863bf5167a05d1aa please to write more about KYMA if you've a mind to... thanks! From ???@??? Fri Feb 28 22:18:42 1997 >From kflint Fri Feb 28 12:49:50 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w0ZFW-0004QA-00; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 12:49:50 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 13:10:41 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Makin' a move... Resent-Message-ID: <"o1JxMD.A.QsD.xO0Fz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2214 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 12:49:50 -0800 X-UIDL: 54427e530eac89f11c0b3538eb203b33 >Greetings Loopers, > >I have just recently been offered a job opportunity >in the Pacific Northwest (Medford, Oregon to br exact) >that is simply too good to pass up. So, I'll soon be >leaving my position at Seymour Duncan and hittin' >the new "Oregon Trail", I-5. > >Any loopfolk in that neck of the woods? > I'm about 4 hours north of Medford, in Corvallis. I don't know much about the scene in Medford, but Ashland has a lot of cool creative people because of the Shakespearean Festival. Eugene has a pretty active musc scene also. And if you ever make it farther north, drop me a line... ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Fri Feb 28 22:19:14 1997 >From kflint Fri Feb 28 18:16:42 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w0eLp-0004nh-00; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 18:16:41 -0800 Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 18:09:38 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: lowfrqcy@west.net (Ryan Blum) Subject: Re: Makin' a move... Resent-Message-ID: <"4Q-aD.A.MUE.yD5Fz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2215 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 18:16:41 -0800 X-UIDL: 245b27e16c00050d7d7a6d0ba5aa3c03 hello! >that is simply too good to pass up. So, I'll soon be >leaving my position at Seymour Duncan and hittin' Ryan, that other santa barbara looper here...is there any time i may be able to catch you in a performance type situation before your move? Very sorry we never met in person... Good luck with your new job and the move! Rya ---- Ryan Blum "...to play 'Giant Steps' because you can seems lowfrqcy@west.net ridiculous to me. I went through that, but ironwood stick #918 I was 14 years old." - John Medeski From ???@??? Fri Feb 28 22:19:15 1997 >From kflint Fri Feb 28 18:40:05 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w0eiN-0006HT-00; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 18:39:59 -0800 Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 18:32:45 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: lowfrqcy@west.net (Ryan Blum) Subject: Re: Makin' a move... Resent-Message-ID: <"81tT8C.A.HtF.fZ5Fz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2216 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 18:39:59 -0800 X-UIDL: 124e1114431f5bd56ba7664bb432c5ea oops... >Ryan, that other santa barbara looper here...is there any time i may be obviously, that wasn't meant for the group. Loop Content (sorta): A friend just gave me a copy of Torn's _Door X_, so i have an extra...it's used and all, but maybe someone'd like to trade for something else. Also, i have one extra JamMan Upgrade chip that I'd like to trade for a tape (or even cd) of your own...Thanks! Ryan ---- Ryan Blum "...to play 'Giant Steps' because you can seems lowfrqcy@west.net ridiculous to me. I went through that, but ironwood stick #918 I was 14 years old." - John Medeski From ???@??? Fri Feb 28 22:19:24 1997 >From kflint Fri Feb 28 21:24:13 1997 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.598 #1) id 0w0hHH-00006e-00; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 21:24:11 -0800 Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 00:21:19 -0500 (EST) From: Aviansongs@aol.com Message-ID: <970301002116_207477957@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Hello, new to the list Resent-Message-ID: <"8fmrjD.A.QSH.Q07Fz"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2217 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 21:24:11 -0800 X-UIDL: 3a095ea7b5a001f43ff77fb628567755 Hello everybody, my names Marc. I just subscribed to the list. I've been using a Digitech RDS 7.6 for several years (at least) now. Thanks to my friend Ed Drake, I just purchased a Jamman during Guitar center's closeout. Even before I added the memory upgrade, I was having a blast with the Jamman. I have especially enjoyed building a loop with my sampler/synths on the Jamman, and then using the RDS 7.6 (with different sounds) to further thicken the texture (with unsynced delays). Among other things, I play for Dance Improv classes at VCU. The RDS 7.6 has been very useful for these, but now I'm looking forward to also using the Jamman at these classes. It will be great to constantly change the delay rate to mirror what the dancers are doing. Btw, I play EWI, Bass, Chapman Stick, and Bass&Tenor Recorders. Take care, Marc