From ???@??? Sun Dec 01 03:20:36 1996 >From kflint Sat Nov 30 23:08:17 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vU60e-00008e-00; Sat, 30 Nov 1996 23:08:16 -0800 Message-Id: Date: Sat, 30 Nov 96 23:05:50 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: eriks@on-ramp.ior.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: erik simpson Subject: Re: Vortex Alert and formal delurk Resent-Message-ID: <"Ru-CjC.A.yTH.d5Soy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1263 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 23:08:16 -0800 X-UIDL: 593fdd432471320dbe7cb1c092f75629 At 05:09 AM 11/30/96 -0500, you wrote: >Hello, > >Just in case someone still wants one, the Guitar Center "December Deal >Days" catalog announces a "Last Chance On Lexicon Price Breakthrough!" >on the Vortex at $149.99. Presumably, they have enough left to warrant >the catalog space. They also advertise the DOD DFX94 4-second >sampler/delay stompbox for $120-- can anyone give a real-world review >of this unit? Is it worth the money? As a newly de-lurking reader, could someone kindly fill me in on the Vortex. I have been using a JamMan w/32 sec upgrade since spring and would like to know how the Vortex compares, differs, etc. I almost got the Vortex instead of the JamMan but my income tax return only allowed for one or the other, and a sudden price shift in the Musicians Friend catalog decided it for me, but I have often wondered what I missed out on. I am assuming, due to their absence from recent catalogs and remarks made on this list, that the Vortex is an endangered species. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks, ----- erik reid simpson eriks@on-ramp.ior.com http://www.ior.com/~eriks From ???@??? Sun Dec 01 03:20:41 1996 >From kflint Sun Dec 1 02:44:06 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vU9NU-0005K1-00; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 02:44:04 -0800 Date: Sun, 01 Dec 1996 05:41:49 -0500 (EST) From: JOHNPOLLOCK@delphi.com Subject: Re: Vortex Alert and formal delurk To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Message-id: <01ICHGORLR5U970NTO@delphi.com> X-VMS-To: INTERNET"Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Resent-Message-ID: <"Ue1GBB.A.A2E.6DWoy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1264 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 02:44:04 -0800 X-UIDL: 53564262916bd5704a2659658cfdb6bd I wrote, >>Just in case someone still wants one, the Guitar Center "December Deal >>Days" catalog announces a "Last Chance On Lexicon Price Breakthrough!" >>on the Vortex at $149.99. Patrick Smith wrote, >Can you give me a phone number for them. I already have one Vortex, but at >this price I'm tempted to buy another..... And several others made similar inquiries, by private email as well as the list. Guitar Center apparently has no central 800 number except for their "MIDI by mail" music software sales. However, the addresses and phone numbers of each of their 28 stores are available at their Web site, http://www.musician.com They also allow both ordering online and asking online for a telephone callback. John Email: johnpollock@delphi.com Troubador Tech on the Web--http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock/ From ???@??? Sun Dec 01 03:20:42 1996 >From kflint Sun Dec 1 02:44:19 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vU9Ni-0005LH-00; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 02:44:18 -0800 Date: Sun, 01 Dec 1996 05:42:04 -0500 (EST) From: JOHNPOLLOCK@delphi.com Subject: Re: Vortex Alert and formal delurk To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Message-id: <01ICHGOZP8ZS970NTO@delphi.com> X-VMS-To: INTERNET"Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Resent-Message-ID: <"_jdLR.A.s3E.JEWoy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1265 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 02:44:18 -0800 X-UIDL: f46bf749f5edf7f7c9fe35a0207087b1 Erik Simpson wrote, in part, >As a newly de-lurking reader, could someone kindly fill me in on the >Vortex. Erik, Here's the short answer: The Vortex is a stereo-capable signal processor which includes a pair of delays, a pair of modulators, and an envelope follower, which can be configured in a variety of ways. It stores 16 pairs of factory patches and 16 user-programmable patch pairs. What makes it totally different from most other processors is its capacity to "morph" between the two patches in each pair, either with an expression pedal or by programming a morph duration (which can be up to ten seconds) and using a footswitch. Some seriously twisted things can happen during the morph, and the envelope follower can make things even stranger. The two delays can be cascaded for a total maximum delay time of 1.846 seconds; tempo can be tapped in with a footswitch; and it can be configured as a looping sampler. It can also be used more conventionally, as flanger, chorus, tremelo, and in combinations. List price was $478; steep, IMO, for a non-MIDI controllable processor. Apparently it was poorly marketed to boot, in that Lexicon failed to make its capabilities clear. My impression (after only three weeks) is that it may take years to find the bottom of this box. Since I've had mine for such a short time, I'm certainly no authority. You can read the same user reports that seduced me into buying mine at http://www.annihilist.com/loop/archive/filtered/Vortex.html including exerpts from Lexicon's Vortex Application Notes, kindly posted by Todd Madson (who apparently has the Only Known Copy In The World). There's a little more about it on the newborn Delays & Loops page at my Website, and the sordid and shameless tale of my acquisition of a Vortex is told on my Gear Acquisition Syndrome page. ;-/ John Email: johnpollock@delphi.com Troubador Tech on the Web--http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock/ From ???@??? Tue Dec 03 00:21:34 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 2 10:46:41 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vUdNy-0003VB-00; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 10:46:34 -0800 Date: Mon, 02 Dec 96 12:32:59 CST From: "Todd Madson" Message-Id: <9611028495.AA849558907@ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com> To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com, Todd.Madson@spica.LaserMaster.Com Subject: Vortex Applications Notes Resent-Message-ID: <"myIi7.A.9zC.EKyoy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1266 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 10:46:34 -0800 X-UIDL: 6ca1fd33ecfac7be345d9334ca0c2cc6 Hi kids - I've been very busy lately so no time to correspond, much less to get my "ghosts" track ready for the compilation CD. I've probably missed out on the chance to get it submitted I'll wager. Regarding the Vortex - the more that I play with it the more that I determine it's one of the better pieces of gear I've ever bought. I'm looking towards selling a bunch of lame stompboxes I have and buying another since Vortexing a Vortex could be truly amazing. As far as Vortex Applications Notes - I now have a computer at home. I'm very tempted to convert this document to HTML and then submit it here (or at my web site) so all of you with Vortex units can try the things that Lexicon suggests is possible. If interested, let me know. Tardily yours, Todd Madson From ???@??? Tue Dec 03 00:22:30 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 2 19:30:08 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vUlYd-0000Bl-00; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 19:30:07 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:57:28 -0500 (EST) From: Stew Benedict To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Vortex Applications Notes In-Reply-To: <9611028495.AA849558907@ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"0G8K8B.A.vPH.I35oy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1271 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 19:30:07 -0800 X-UIDL: a8a58cd0aa1ba38dad65a997aa45ca06 HTML'ing it would be great Todd! If you have access to a scanner or copier and need/want any help, I'd be willing to pitch in. Stew Benedict From ???@??? Tue Dec 03 00:22:04 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 2 15:06:47 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vUhRk-0005l4-00; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 15:06:44 -0800 Date: 02 Dec 96 17:59:04 EST From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Vortex Applications Notes Message-ID: <961202225903_100041.247_JHB105-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"vCs1lB.A.tMF.hB2oy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1269 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 15:06:44 -0800 X-UIDL: d29898ce6e73640ca789ded8477f7677 > I now have a computer at home. I'm very tempted to convert this document > to HTML and then submit it here (or at my web site) so all of you with > Vortex units can try the things that Lexicon suggests is possible. > If interested, let me know. are you kidding? of *course* we're interested!! :-) (I hope submitting it here won't raise any difficult copyright questions.) I still have problems with the Vortex - the few really interesting and useful sounds I got out of it I found by blind trial and error, which is a very tiresome method because most of the time the sounds aren't very interesting (they sound to me like just another chorus/echo combination). I still don't *understand* how it works. (This is largely due to lack time plus my laziness which keep me from wading through the algorithm descriptions.) Getting a few more concrete ideas might help to really get a grip on it. I still believe there is much more in there than it seems. -Michael From ???@??? Tue Dec 03 00:22:02 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 2 15:06:28 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vUhRT-0005jb-00; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 15:06:27 -0800 Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 17:59:26 -0500 (EST) From: JOHNPOLLOCK@delphi.com Subject: Re: Vortex Applications Notes To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Message-id: <01ICJKQNETJC987PFQ@delphi.com> X-VMS-To: INTERNET"Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Resent-Message-ID: <"wW98dD.A.p8E.F-1oy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1268 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 15:06:27 -0800 X-UIDL: af14527e24f3e6989c4a2c21b5886100 Todd Madson wrote, in part, >As far as Vortex Applications Notes - >I now have a computer at home. I'm very tempted to convert this document to >HTML and then submit it here (or at my web site) so all of you with Vortex >units can try the things that Lexicon suggests is possible. If interested, >let me know. Oh, yes, please! The excerpts you've already posted gave me a huge jumpstart. :-) John Email: johnpollock@delphi.com Troubador Tech on the Web--http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock/ From ???@??? Tue Dec 03 00:22:27 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 2 17:43:43 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vUjtc-0001Lg-00; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:43:40 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:44:46 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Vortex Applications Notes In-Reply-To: <961202225903_100041.247_JHB105-1@CompuServe.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"5Hk1Q.A.hDB.pU4oy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1270 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:43:40 -0800 X-UIDL: 69c7d5d81dede226deebe168ac71d034 On 2 Dec 1996, Michael Peters wrote: > I still have problems with the Vortex - the few really interesting and > useful sounds I got out of it I found by blind trial and error, which is a > very tiresome method because most of the time the sounds aren't very > interesting (they sound to me like just another chorus/echo combination). That's funny -- practically all of my user registers are filled with some of the most bizarre, brain-bending, stomach-turning things I've ever heard. > I still don't *understand* how it works. (This is largely due to lack time > plus my laziness which keep me from wading through the algorithm > descriptions.) I don't *understand* it that much either, to tell you the truth. There are a couple of very bizarre patches that seem to have minds of their own, and behave in unpredictable ways. My approach is usually along the lines of, "HMMM, let's see what this thing does if I turn X control to Y settings..." and then behold the onslaught. The big problem (and the great thing about the box, as well) is that since every single effect responds differently to the same general family of settings, memorizing what a certain control setting does is only good for that particular patch. So turning up depth 2 has a very different result on the escalator-over-the-seesaw pitch-shift thingie than it does on the robot-gargling-salt-water jobbie. I'm reluctant to post too many patches, partially because of time and partically because they're so wierd that I'm hesitant to give them away. Besides, there's no great secret; all you have to do is sit down with each effect and tweek parameters 'till the cows come home. You might be surprised -- I still can't believe this is the same box I demoed at Guitar Center. --Andre From ???@??? Tue Dec 03 00:21:58 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 2 14:49:52 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vUhBL-0004aP-00; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 14:49:47 -0800 Message-Id: <199612022246.OAA57350@scv1.apple.com> Subject: Implied music Date: Tue, 3 Dec 96 04:46:20 -0000 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"JNJimD.A.3-D.Rw1oy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1267 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 14:49:47 -0800 X-UIDL: 03735794631ed4193d6e7d31704314ca Last night I'd been working on some loops, using a DOD 3.6sec delay and my Vortex. Typically I build a simple loop, lock that in, and then play on top until something else suggests itself, add that in, etc. After an hour or so, I wandered into the living room to see what my housemates were doing, and I left the loop cycling away in the next room. There were watching a movie on TV, and as I sat there, I could still hear the loop. It sounded as if the loop was changing, violins, voices, all sorts of things coming out of it. At times, it reminded me of north African singing, even though I knew what the loop "really" sounded like. There wasn't any music in the background of the movie, but it seemed to me that this aural "mirage" was the result of interferance between dialog, people in the room talking, and the loop. It was quite beautiful. I've found the same sort of thing when I listen to Lou Reed's "Metal Machine Music", a record frequently described as one of the most unlistenable collections of sonic information ever assembled. I believe Lester Bangs said that it could clear any party out in under three minutes. Naturally, when I heard that I said "Whoa! Gotta get me one of those!" It is very harsh, and seems to be the result of overloading a bunch of amplifiers and guitars and every chain of the recording process, and then multitracking it. It just starts, and goes on for 16 minutes a side (did I mention it's a double record), with no form or apparent planning. I think I read that he wasn't in the room--just turned everything on, ran tape for an hour, and chopped it into four pieces. When I listened to that, I heard the same sort of violiny-Lygetti-transmissions-from-space sort of sound. Of course, everyone else looked at me as if I was crazy, which I suppose we can't discount. After I bought that record (I'd also purchased My Bloody Valentine's second album around the same time), I wanted to explore regenerative music systems, so I loaded up my guitar into two or three distortion boxes, a chorus, a flanger, whatever else I had sitting around, and then into a two-second delay (the great Digitech big blue box), and then into a recently acquired Boss Delay/Pitch Shift box (the half-rack model from the microstudio series). The Boss unit does around 800ms of delay, but the most interesting part is the Reverse setting (not very common at the time), which can also be combined with pitchshifting. I found that if I set it an octave up, reversed, and then turned up the amp moderately loud, the whole system would burble on in a self-directed manner. I'd just sit the guitar on it's stand, turn everything on, and let it start feeding back. Every now and then I'd tap the body or flick the strings behind the nut to introduce some random information into the loop/system. The pickups were also fairly microphonic at that point, due to the huge amount of gain, and so loud sounds could also be picked up--such as handclaps, loud music from my stereo, me yelling into the pickups, and so on. After a while, I'd go sit out on the porch and listen to it mixed in with the sounds of cars going by, enjoying the worried looks of passers-by. I found that turning the amp in a different direction also had an effect on what happened, probably because the room I was in had high ceilings, no carpet and was decently sized. Maybe this is a little off-subject for the group, but I thought I'd delurk. Travis Hartnett From ???@??? Tue Dec 03 00:22:33 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 2 20:44:39 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vUmil-0004qr-00; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 20:44:39 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 02:48:15 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Implied music Resent-Message-ID: <"W71DJ.A.VbE.G_6oy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1272 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 20:44:39 -0800 X-UIDL: 72a7ee54a848349dc15c594b39b010a4 Loved your arrival, Travis! I read your fascinating storry and heared the sounds of the looped feed back guitar and the fed back loop guitar and when I managed to get up I went to my guitar to play some such sound. But the Plex had its Feedback LED orange all the time (which fits into your story) but did not work at all. Since I know from long years that such errors should be fixed on the spot but have to be understood similar to a hurting back that should not be fixed by surgery but through a change in live - I played without loop. I played the oposit of what I had heared: A never repeating combination of strange clean chords, mostly unknown to me. And I felt like creating most intelligent music, finally liberated from the cave of the limiting repetitions... :-) Then I switched the plex on again and it still had the same orange LED. So I disconnected it totaly and switched it on again - and it worked normal again. I knew I had "fixed" it and plugged all in again and it still worked normal. Anyone ever seen that bug? Seriously: Does anyone know of any composed or similar sounding harmonic music that has no repetition in it, not even variations of a theme, just a development in certain mood, softly changing? Is that worthless or revolutionary or just a diletantic lack of aim and structure? Isn't the lack of structure a concept which has the same value as a structure? So that was the effect your story had on me, Travis. Disapointed? Thank you Matthias From ???@??? Tue Dec 03 10:01:36 1996 >From kflint Tue Dec 3 09:35:16 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vUykH-00033f-00; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 09:35:01 -0800 Message-ID: <32A40F93.4198@interaccess.com> Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 11:31:36 +0000 From: James Coker X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Implied music References: Content-Type: text/plain X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by flowbee.interaccess.com id LAA00183 Resent-Message-ID: <"DFFk9B.A.WdC.zNGpy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1274 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 09:35:01 -0800 X-UIDL: 9295f1c768d402ccb163ca52f7b75dd5 > Seriously: Does anyone know of any composed or similar sounding harmonic > music that has no repetition in it, not even variations of a theme, just a > development in certain mood, softly changing? Scoenberg, Farben (Colors) in his 5 OrchesterstŸcke (Orchestral pieces). It's only 3:20 long, but very nice. Its a single somewhat dissonant chord that goes through an unrepeating series of slow timbral shifts. The rest of the CD I have it on (Deutsche Grammophon 419 781-2) is very different, but very good also. Jim From ???@??? Tue Dec 03 10:01:35 1996 >From kflint Tue Dec 3 09:07:57 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vUyK3-00015I-00; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 09:07:55 -0800 Date: 03 Dec 96 11:56:31 EST From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: Vortex Applications Notes Message-ID: <961203165631_74074.1316_GHQ121-2@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"J7HEt.A.Bw.W1Fpy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1273 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 09:07:55 -0800 X-UIDL: 6df03cd93776b5b3f53d80dd2901a0f2 >> I now have a computer at home. I'm very tempted to convert this document >> to HTML and then submit it here (or at my web site) so all of you with >> Vortex units can try the things that Lexicon suggests is possible. >> If interested, let me know. >are you kidding? of *course* we're interested!! :-) >(I hope submitting it here won't raise any difficult copyright questions.) Don't get concerned about the copyright area--they're not concerned so you shouldn't be. It was never a big deal, and frankly somebody ought to put them on a website since Lex's management seem to be convinced that a website is a *bad* thing. (No kidding). There are a few decent notes in there, some of them I did myself. Todd: I'm going to do some digging to see if I have the original text files here (I wrote them at home, but final assembly was at the office, so....) Anyway, this may be a big time saver for you if I can score the files. Cheers! Jon Durant From ???@??? Wed Dec 04 00:41:18 1996 >From kflint Tue Dec 3 12:29:02 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vV1Sf-0007WG-00; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 12:29:01 -0800 Date: Tue, 03 Dec 96 14:17:00 CST From: "Todd Madson" Message-Id: <9611038496.AA849651639@ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, ToddM@lasermaster.com Subject: Re[2]: Vortex Applications Notes Resent-Message-ID: <"ZNd5hB.A.KzG.6yIpy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1275 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 12:29:01 -0800 X-UIDL: c2f48794680c6ccddb5aec40ee887ea2 Jon: Sounds cool to me - you can e-mail them to me at crash@waste.org or todd.madson@lasermaster.com. Also, if you have other ideas that didn't make it to the applications notes (i.e. - "this setting is too twisted for customers, we can't possibly publish this!") by all means send them on. I've already got some great stuff not in the manual (already passed to this list of course) and have messed with the box quite a bit to get it to do bizzarre things to good effect. Take it easy. Todd Madson. >Message was resent -- Original recipients were: To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" ------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------- >> I now have a computer at home. I'm very tempted to convert this document >> to HTML and then submit it here (or at my web site) so all of you with >> Vortex units can try the things that Lexicon suggests is possible. >> If interested, let me know. >are you kidding? of *course* we're interested!! :-) >(I hope submitting it here won't raise any difficult copyright questions.) Don't get concerned about the copyright area--they're not concerned so you shouldn't be. It was never a big deal, and frankly somebody ought to put them on a website since Lex's management seem to be convinced that a website is a *bad* thing. (No kidding). There are a few decent notes in there, some of them I did myself. Todd: I'm going to do some digging to see if I have the original text files here (I wrote them at home, but final assembly was at the office, so....) Anyway, this may be a big time saver for you if I can score the files. Cheers! Jon Durant Received: from spica.LaserMaster.Com by ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com (SMTPLINK V2.10.08) ; Tue, 03 Dec 96 11:02:21 CST Return-Path: Received: from ferret.slip.net (ferret.slip.net [204.160.88.6]) by spica.LaserMaster.Com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA28298 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 11:12:24 -0600 (CST) Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vUyHI-0000w2-00; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 09:05:04 -0800 Date: 03 Dec 96 11:56:31 EST From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: Vortex Applications Notes Message-ID: <961203165631_74074.1316_GHQ121-2@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"J7HEt.A.Bw.W1Fpy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1273 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: ToddM@lasermaster.com Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 09:05:05 -0800 From ???@??? Wed Dec 04 00:41:26 1996 >From kflint Tue Dec 3 14:09:38 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vV31z-0006az-00; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 14:09:35 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 20:11:57 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Implied music Resent-Message-ID: <"DwAFP.A.F_F.qRKpy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1276 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 14:09:35 -0800 X-UIDL: ecb16d927481d8c8acfc4d8234745982 Me: >> Seriously: Does anyone know of any composed or similar sounding harmonic >> music that has no repetition in it, not even variations of a theme, just a >> development in certain mood, softly changing? Jim: >Scoenberg, Farben (Colors) in his 5 OrchesterstŸcke (Orchestral >pieces). It's only 3:20 long, but very nice. Its a single >somewhat dissonant chord that goes through an unrepeating series >of slow timbral shifts. The rest of the CD I have it on (Deutsche >Grammophon 419 781-2) is very different, but very good also. That sounds *also* very interesting! What I meant is apparently not "experimental" at all. Imagine for example a Bossa Nova or a Jazz piano piece with usual sound and harmonies, just that they never return to a similar sequence, maybe not even to the base tone (if such exists). A linear composition, somehow. Since this is the oposite of what we usually talk about, it might not even be off topic :-) Matthias From ???@??? Wed Dec 04 00:41:59 1996 >From kflint Tue Dec 3 15:58:08 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vV4j0-0006QZ-00; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 15:58:06 -0800 Date: Tue, 03 Dec 96 17:49:20 CST From: "Todd Madson" Message-Id: <9611038496.AA849664241@ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, ToddM@lasermaster.com Subject: Re[2]: Vortex Applications Notes Resent-Message-ID: <"kgbiRD.A.q1F.x3Lpy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1277 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 15:58:06 -0800 X-UIDL: 1b2e748a4625855d1d35f987cefe2dae Andre: > That's funny -- practically all of my user registers are filled with some > of the most bizarre, brain-bending, stomach-turning things I've ever heard. Me too! Actually, I kind of use the original patches as "the tasteful stuff I use to plau normal music" and the user register's as "Todd's Playground of the Audio disturbed..." > I don't *understand* it that much either, to tell you the truth. There > are a couple of very bizarre patches that seem to have minds of their > own, and behave in unpredictable ways. My approach is usually along the > lines of, "HMMM, let's see what this thing does if I turn X control to Y > settings..." and then behold the onslaught. That's what I LOVE about the box - that I have a series of settings that respond and sound totally different depending on the level of delay I've set for the effect, or how soft or hard I play. One patch I have on it makes my $90 Casio keyboard I bought at a local discount store sound like a $5,000 keyboard. Just this huge pad sound. Massive. Other patches make things sound tortured and wretched. I've got one patch, it's the greatest - if I put my drum machine through it - the resonators cause the snare drum to ring like it's the loudest, most nasty snare ever recorded. It caused one of my jamming partners to laugh out loud because it sounded like an alternative rock drummer hitting the snare as hard as s/he could. It instantly makes my lush sounding demo the crappiest, grainy sounding thing ever, but has tons of character. It sounds like some hip hop thing, but me doing hiphop is like tiny tim doing death metal! > The big problem (and the great thing about the box, as well) is that since > every single effect responds differently to the same general family of > settings, memorizing what a certain control setting does is only good for > that particular patch. So turning up depth 2 has a very different result > on the escalator-over-the-seesaw pitch-shift thingie than it does on the > robot-gargling-salt-water jobbie. I love your descriptions! But the whole idea is to trade patches and have a place to start that might not be exactly identical to what you create, but gives a nice place to start and then tweak it and make it your own. > I'm reluctant to post too many patches, partially because of time and > partically because they're so wierd that I'm hesitant to give them away. > Besides, there's no great secret; all you have to do is sit down with each > effect and tweek parameters 'till the cows come home. You might be > surprised -- I still can't believe this is the same box I demoed at > Guitar Center. It does take time, and I'm unsure if the patches I posted earlier helped anyone, however, I'd like to see some patches others have tried. And yeah, if I went to Guitar Center now, I could totally and completely DESTROY minds with some sounds I could create on the fly! Todd. Received: from spica.LaserMaster.Com by ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com (SMTPLINK V2.10.08) ; Mon, 02 Dec 96 19:39:25 CST Return-Path: Received: from ferret.slip.net (ferret.slip.net [204.160.88.6]) by spica.LaserMaster.Com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA25213 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 19:49:38 -0600 (CST) Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vUjsO-0001FK-00; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:42:25 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:44:46 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Vortex Applications Notes In-Reply-To: <961202225903_100041.247_JHB105-1@CompuServe.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"5Hk1Q.A.hDB.pU4oy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1270 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: ToddM@lasermaster.com Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:42:25 -0800 From ???@??? Wed Dec 04 09:26:18 1996 >From kflint Wed Dec 4 05:17:00 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vVHC7-0006cC-00; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 05:16:59 -0800 Date: 04 Dec 96 08:12:20 EST From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: Re[2]: Vortex Applications Notes Message-ID: <961204131219_74074.1316_GHQ7-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"qH9R1B.A.yFG.SlXpy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1278 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 05:16:59 -0800 X-UIDL: 00c4df28cafd2a34e59c14f4dee14f52 Todd wrote: >It does take time, and I'm unsure if the patches I posted earlier helped >anyone, however, I'd like to see some patches others have tried. And >yeah,if I went to Guitar Center now, I could totally and completely >DESTROY minds with some sounds I could create on the fly! If only there were more of you out there, Todd and Andre, this box might have actually sold. Did I tell you about the demo I received when I popped by a store in Nashville (in disguise, of course) that had been trained not two weeks prior? (Q: What's a Vortex? A: It's a trick reverb) Or about the Guitar Center in the San Jose area (can't remember now which city) that had a really noisy patch bay and said it was the Vortex making all that buzzing? The thing that really pushed me over the edge, however, was when the UK distributor said at an international marketing/bitching meeting (w/distributors from Germany, France, Italy and England): "I can't believe Lexicon doesn't make a delay box any more!" To which I replied, "Andrew, we make two. And the reason you can't sell JamMan and Vortex is because you don't know what a delay box is." This, of course, got me into big trouble with the President of Lexland, but it also scored me a trip to London in time for Christmas, where I had a lovely time hanging with Warren Cucurullo (a JamMan fanatic). But the point is that there's only a handful of people who have a clue about this stuff. If we'd named JamMan the PCM-43, and Vortex the PCM-44 people might have got it: logical extensions of the PCM 41 and 42. But, we opted for cute and got burned. Sorry for spewing more dirt, but the people need to know... Later, Jon Durant From ???@??? Thu Dec 05 00:14:10 1996 >From kflint Wed Dec 4 17:59:27 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vVT5w-0006yx-00; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:59:24 -0800 From: sarajanes@mdcs.com (Sarajanes) Subject: implied rhythms Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 21:14:55 GMT Message-Id: <849734095@mdcs.com> Organization: Micro Data Computer Systems To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Resent-Message-ID: <"UGaFO.A.UGG.Zsipy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1279 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:59:24 -0800 X-UIDL: 6ea53662525195bc1c7e503a7a2014f3 Somewhere in the midst of considering issues addressed in E. Cook's thoughts on drumming with loops, and the more recent "implied music" post, I found myself uneasy with the seeming dichotomy of these two texts as they related to the description of musical events. The "linguistics & semantics" game has always annoyed me as a person who plays music by ear, and who could not stomach the scholasticism that musical instruction and theory always seem to be anchored in. Hence I stop lessons, drop out of college, and rock and roll. However real freedom of musical expression does not arrive for me until I discover looping in the late 70's. Finally I can access the tonal and textural powers of an ensemble with out the rampant breakdown in communication and spirit that was always present for me in group musical situations. Better still was the freeing notion that a sense of rhythm was always presenting itself within the loop itself as opposed to some pre-meditated calculations between the "rhythm section" and the rest of the group. Gee...not a team player, am I? Anyway this "systems" generated sense of rhythm within the loop made precise and imprecise polyrhytms available to me for the first time, no mean trick for a guy as white as I am. Even after looping for 18 years now I truly love to find a loop of increasingly stammered and clutching sounds becoming its own "groove" as it where. Since outside (the loop) counterpoint can be reallly powerful, given a good loop to play with, the draw to find a synchronous relationship to the sounds within the loop is overwhelming . The contrast between an acccompanied loop versus a solo loop is really clearly heard if you listen to any "Frippertronics" work with a lead non-loop melody, such as "Evening Star", and compare it to solo-loop work such as "Let The Power Fall", the differences are major. So it's cool to "play along" as it where, but for me at least the notions expressed in "drumming with loops" seem far less viable than the plan of attack presented in "implied music". I know "different strokes for different folks" and all but it reminded me of an experience I had 11 years ago this week when I was attending my second Guitar Craft course. In the midst of a group discussion concerning composition and performance issues, I found myself asking Mr. Fripp why we had to endure this endless parade of mathmatics to access our musical aims. His stern and steadfast reply was that "it wasn't mathmatics, it was arithmatic!" I'm still just looking for music, and I have always believed that along with rhythm, it will present itself. Bryan Helm " Looper, Bombastic Ranter & Musical Fascist" From ???@??? Thu Dec 05 00:14:13 1996 >From kflint Wed Dec 4 19:33:47 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vVUZC-0006iL-00; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:33:42 -0800 Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 20:29:24 -0700 (MST) From: Dan Howarth Reply-To: Dan Howarth To: stickwire-l@netcom.com cc: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: possible stick for sale In-Reply-To: <961204212954_1487377266@emout20.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"lzQ-LC.A.0FG.tHkpy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1280 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:33:42 -0800 X-UIDL: 1728eaeb02112313219b8ac850de47b7 hi folks, i'm considering selling my stick... Ironwood #1563 - ten strings truss rod installed refitted/inspected by SE/Mr. Chapman sometime in summer '95 straplocks installed -----it can be seen on my web page-------- also including - the usual flight case, 'free hands' book, stereo cord plus: a gig bag two spare stereo cords (if you want them) and an unopened set of stainless steel strings asking $1000 for everything - OR BEST OFFER (very negotiable) this is the instrument i've gigged with for two years - it's a fine piece of equipment, with absolutely nothing wrong with it. contact me if you're interested. **************************************************************** ** Dan Howarth, History/Music, University of Arizona, Tucson ** ** http://www.u.arizona.edu/~howarth (under construction) ** **************************************************************** From ???@??? Thu Dec 05 09:48:50 1996 >From kflint Thu Dec 5 01:00:15 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vVZfA-0000sK-00; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 01:00:12 -0800 Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 03:58:38 -0500 (EST) From: JOHNPOLLOCK@delphi.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: Vortex Applications Notes To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Message-id: <01ICMY8UMRJS9888KI@delphi.com> X-VMS-To: INTERNET"Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Resent-Message-ID: <"xfK0ZB.A.ss.L7opy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1281 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 01:00:12 -0800 X-UIDL: dcb635244678fe41d2894ebbb37777c5 Jon Durant wrote, in part, >If only there were more of you out there, Todd and Andre, this box >might have actually sold. Did I tell you about the demo I received >when I popped by a store in Nashville (in disguise, of course) that >had been trained not two weeks prior? >(Q: What's a Vortex? A: It's a trick reverb) Or about the Guitar >Center in the San Jose area (can't remember now which city) that had >a really noisy patch bay and said it was the Vortex making all that >buzzing? >The thing that really pushed me over the edge, however, was when the UK >distributor said at an international marketing/bitching meeting >(w/distributors from Germany, France, Italy and England): "I can't >believe Lexicon doesn't make a delay box any more!" To which I replied, >"Andrew, we make two. And the reason you can't sell JamMan and Vortex >is because you don't know what a delay box is." This, of course, got >me into big trouble with the President of Lexland, but Synchronicity: Within minutes of receiving Jon's post, I got a phone call from the Guitar Center employee who sold me my Vortex a few weeks ago. GCE: "Are you happy with it?" Me: "Deliriously." GCE: "Really?!? Me: "Yeah...Why are you so surprised?" GCE: "Well, I wasn't sure if you'd tried one before you bought it..." Me: "Never heard or laid eyes on one until I took mine out of the box." GCE: "Well, then, how...why...uhh..." I explained that I had a good idea of the unit's capabilities from the L-D list and Web site, at which point he became very excited. It turns out the guitarist in his band has a Vortex, but no clue as to how to use it. I gave him the URL. :-) I'm not sure whether he was looking for help, or trying to placate a potentially unhappy customer, or both. I did ask him about the Vortex User Guide Addendum/Application Notes, and he said he'd check and get back to me. It'll be interesting to see what happens. Unlike Todd and Andre, I can't say that I really "get" the box-- I just don't have enough hands-on time at this point. Also, I've been using what time I do have for looping! Deja Vu B with expression pedal assigned to Envelope. This afternoon I was playing heavily distorted (saturated) guitar, and set up a rhythmic loop that wasn't quite right. Instead of starting over, I started adding to it with scrapes across muted strings. Then I stuck in some single notes, a different one on each beat, fading them in and out with the expression pedal. I repeated these notes several times. It still wasn't right. I tapped the tempo pedal a couple times, just to see how chopping it would do...and burst into laughter: I had unintentionally created a heavy metal Cajun waltz, complete with rubboard and accordion! Another thing I do is to set up a very simple rhythmic loop, back off the expression pedal to a value of 3 or 4, and play over the loop. When I stop playing, I'm always surprised and usually delighted by the wash of sound that has accumulated in the loop, but which I couldn't hear clearly while playing. When I get time, I'm really looking forward to running my acoustic guitars through Duo A and B, with piezo pickup feeding one side and magnetic to the other. So, yeah, I'm deliriously happy with the Vortex--but I bought it as a $150 looper/tap tempo delay. It does chorus, flanging, rotary, and morphing as well? Thaaat's nice...but I'm not sure I would have paid $478 for it. See, the JamEntity has features that are not only easily understood, but roughly quantifiable in dollars: "It does what one of those 8-second Digitech boxes does, for only a little more. It can expand to do double what the EH 16-second delay does, and if you can _find_ the EH box, it'll cost twice as much. PLUS it's MIDI controllable, and can slave to my drum machine--OR make my drum machine ITS slave, and therefore the slave of MY tapping toe! And a chromatic tuner to boot? That's worth $40-50 right there...Write it up!" With the Vortex, the process is more like: "That's a pair of $150 chorus/ delay stompboxes, plus a $50 stereo volume pedal for panning. No MIDI... less than two seconds delay... Nawp, lemme look at that JamOne again..." So, tell us, Jon, if you can: Is there really some exotic and expensive DSP deep mojo in the Vortex, to justify the list price? Or did the Lexfolk simply misguess the desirability of morphing along with the need to explain Bleen? John Email: johnpollock@delphi.com Troubador Tech on the Web--http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock/ From ???@??? Thu Dec 05 09:48:56 1996 >From kflint Thu Dec 5 05:12:56 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vVdbj-0006KY-00; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 05:12:55 -0800 Date: 05 Dec 96 08:09:08 EST From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: Re[2]: Vortex Applications Notes Message-ID: <961205130908_74074.1316_GHQ75-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"udWSGD.A.axF.cnspy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1282 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 05:12:55 -0800 X-UIDL: 18f4f456d36788224f623217a27b3bb7 John writes: >So, tell us, Jon, if you can: Is there really some exotic and expensive >DSP deep mojo in the Vortex, to justify the list price? Or did the >Lexfolk simply misguess the desirability of morphing along with the >need to explain Bleen? How much time've you gotz? OK, DSP-wise there's a cute little chip the likes of which had never shown it's face 'round the Lex parts. Generally, since the advent of the Lexichip (the DSP engine which powers all Lex processors from '88-forward) the engineering staff snickered at the concept of using some "generic" dsp chip. Eventually, some smart person put his hands on a new (at the time) 2105 chip (manufacturer escapes me temporarily, sorry) and began experimenting. He discovered some serious mind-altering delay modulation stuff which simply couldn't be done within a Lexichip. (Now, understand, we're looking at the other half of the PCM -42 equation here, JamMan being the straight delay part, but you couldn't wobulate it. So...) Now, everyone agreed that a modulating delay would be cool. Then somebody stumbled into the morphing thing, and a whole new set of doors opened up. What we started to hear were a whole new category of effects. Think about how long it's been since somebody had a "new" effect. Remember the first wah, phasor, flanger, chorus? Well, now we had the first Bleen. Well, OK another example might be better, but maybe not. We kept looking for unusual ways to go about things. The reasoning behind the names was that, even though "Choir" is a chorus and "orbits" is a leslie, they work really differently from their normal effectoid counterparts. The envelope control was a big part of that, as well as pedal control. And the more outside stuff (Bleen, Fractal) gave us a chance to really get something shocking into the box to compliment the more "useable" effects. Morphing: OK, it was "an idea who's time had come", but I will say this. Morphing is the primary reason I use the box. I use it all the time, to either swell in delays, fast pedal detunes, slow ring-mod to flangin/panning/looping--fractal, or sometimes leave the pedal somewhere in the middle for horribly nasty beauty. (This is how Torn uses Vortex--the goo in the middle.) As you can see, this box has so much it's hard to imagine people not getting it. And I distinctly remember the first time we trotted it out to the LA/NY sales guys. We had to clean their seats after our demo. "This is the home run box!" "This one's gonna break us in MI". Well, kids, what happened? BTW: The GC blow-out deal makes Lexicon $0 per unit. GC bought them at Lex's cost to remove them from inventory. GC makes about $20/unit. Good profit, huh? By 'em while you can, gang, 'cuz you'll never see anything like it again. From anyone. (I can still hear the dirisive laughter from my friends at Digidreck.) Then, 20 years from now, you'll be able to sell it for $1200 as a classic, vintage, whatever... From ???@??? Thu Dec 05 09:48:59 1996 >From kflint Thu Dec 5 07:03:23 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vVfKa-0006cy-00; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 07:03:20 -0800 Date: Thu, 5 Dec 96 10:01:27 EST From: angel@matisse.pet.upenn.edu (Emmanuel Angel) Message-Id: <9612051501.AA29050@matisse.pet.upenn.edu.noname> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Vortex Resent-Message-ID: <"1dUIv.A.qEG.EPupy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1283 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 07:03:20 -0800 X-UIDL: d12f3c82809d1ddc459607e1265a3ee4 I just got my Vortex in the mail yesterday. I bought it on faith but loved the sounds and warm tone quality immediately. The presets do seem fairly tame, in terms of how novel the sounds are. I get the feeling pretty quickly that the weird stuff will come from programming the registers so that I can morph between *different* algorithms. Hitting the A/B button to morph between preset pairs has not been too dramatic. I'm wondering if anyone has suggestions as to good expression pedals for the unit. Does Lexicon sell one. Or maybe there are compatibles from other manufacturers which work as well or better. Any suggestions from those more experienced with this box would be appreciated. Mickey From ???@??? Thu Dec 05 09:49:01 1996 >From kflint Thu Dec 5 07:08:23 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vVfPQ-000712-00; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 07:08:20 -0800 Date: Thu, 5 Dec 96 10:07:10 EST From: angel@matisse.pet.upenn.edu (Emmanuel Angel) Message-Id: <9612051507.AA29199@matisse.pet.upenn.edu.noname> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Lexicon MPX1 Resent-Message-ID: <"AGXGCD.A.-eG.cUupy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1284 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 07:08:20 -0800 X-UIDL: 16d912e86dca9a566a77e206673f3bbb I'm curious to know if anyone knows anything about the new Lexicon MPX1. It looks to be a mid-priced unit that will retail for around $1000, but I know little more about it. Mickey Angel From ???@??? Thu Dec 05 09:49:03 1996 >From kflint Thu Dec 5 07:51:47 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vVg5O-0002XW-00; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 07:51:42 -0800 Message-Id: <13737.199612051549@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:49:27 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr ) Subject: Vortex Applications Notes Cc: 74074.1316@CompuServe.COM Resent-Message-ID: <"7sljt.A.cMC.37upy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1285 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 07:51:42 -0800 X-UIDL: 674c12cc03e79694873adec26cd4aa20 Jon said: >As you can see, this box has so much it's hard to imagine people not getting >it. >And I distinctly remember the first time we trotted it out to the LA/NY sales >guys. We had to clean their seats after our demo. "This is the home run box!" >"This one's gonna break us in MI". Well, kids, what happened? I don't have one, and have never tried one (there aren't any in Scotland afaik), but you need to look at the market it was competing in. It has no distortion. I'm guessing, but the big sellers at that price point are DigiTech and Boss, do-everything packages. For the low-end user, kids just want a box that turns them into this week's hero. The mid-range-price guys, with MIDI preamps should have gone for it, but I gather it's not MIDI. If not, why?? It _depends_ on working with a preamp for the reason named above. When the Alex came out over here (that is the non-Midi rvb, innit?), that was the single big gripe in the reviews. Then there are the big money guys, and they'll buy high-end Lex and Eventide stuff, 'cos they can. As far as I can see, the only group who would choose the Vortex above a Digitech etc are the experimentalists, like us. I mean, how many other people actually _program_ their FX? >BTW: The GC blow-out deal makes Lexicon $0 per unit. GC bought them at Lex's >cost to remove them from inventory. GC makes about $20/unit. Good profit, huh? >By 'em while you can, gang, 'cuz you'll never see anything like it again. From >anyone. (I can still hear the dirisive laughter from my friends at Digidreck.) >Then, 20 years from now, you'll be able to sell it for $1200 as a classic, >vintage, whatever... Try telling that to your UK distributor (Turnkey/Soho Soundhouse, am I right?). They're still £250 ($400) over here. :( So, could someone go through this "non-midi" thing one more time? How do you control the beast? If it only accepts footpedals (eg the supplied Jamman set) then it doesn't work well with the Jamman (which needs midi for the fade section). Incidentally, why (oh why) doesn't JM accept Midi volume.... And does it really have two amp-switching feed-outs? Now that *is* cool!! (Sorry, rant mode off) Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Everything in moderation, including moderation" (Zen Proverb) From ???@??? Thu Dec 05 09:49:06 1996 >From kflint Thu Dec 5 07:58:49 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vVgCD-000393-00; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 07:58:45 -0800 Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 09:55:33 -0600 (CST) From: Dave Stagner To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Vortex In-Reply-To: <9612051501.AA29050@matisse.pet.upenn.edu.noname> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"pGLwX.A.MtC.ICvpy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1286 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 07:58:45 -0800 X-UIDL: 7d6b4004ff3ef0e00d8c0a1848923703 On Thu, 5 Dec 1996, Emmanuel Angel wrote: > > I just got my Vortex in the mail yesterday. I bought it on faith but > loved the sounds and warm tone quality immediately. Another convert! > I'm wondering if anyone has suggestions as to good expression pedals > for the unit. Does Lexicon sell one. Or maybe there are compatibles > from other manufacturers which work as well or better. Any suggestions > from those more experienced with this box would be appreciated. If you find a good expression pedal, let us know, okay? I'm currently using a modified ADA expression pedal, but I can't get it to sweep completely from 1-64. Generally, it doesn't go below 12-13 at the low end, which is irritating. I've thought about getting one of the cheap Rolls pedals, but I'd like to try before I buy. Besides, if I get a stereo volume anytime soon, it'll have to go on my acoustic guitar (which now has a piezo and an internal mic running down a stereo cable). Also, if you find an expression pedal, be prepared to do some soldering. The wiring on the Vortex is a little unusual. -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.net */ -Charles Fort From ???@??? Thu Dec 05 09:49:17 1996 >From kflint Thu Dec 5 09:48:04 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vVhtp-0004BI-00; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 09:47:53 -0800 X-Sender: ejmd@pop.erols.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 12:43:48 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: ejmd@erols.com (Ed Drake) Subject: Re: Re[2]: Vortex Applications Notes Resent-Message-ID: <"EJQvoC.A.SjD.lmwpy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1289 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 09:47:53 -0800 X-UIDL: 30466677f8bf040424d0d29af282ffd0 John Pollock said: >See, the JamEntity has features that are not only easily understood, >but roughly quantifiable in dollars: "It does what one of those 8-second >Digitech boxes does, for only a little more. It can expand to do double >what the EH 16-second delay does, and if you can _find_ the EH box, it'll >cost twice as much. PLUS it's MIDI controllable, and can slave to my drum >machine--OR make my drum machine ITS slave, and therefore the slave of MY >tapping toe! And a chromatic tuner to boot? That's worth $40-50 right >there...Write it up!" Until I'm able to afford an Echoplex, I've been trying to wring every bit of performance out of my Jam Man. I recently purchased a Ground Control pedal by Digital Music which is a MIDI foot controller ( Thanks to Dave at Studio Seventeen for the pre-purchase advice) and I've got it hooked up to my rig including the Jam Man and it's working great! If any of you have a Jam Man you owe it to yourself to try to use MIDI to control all of its' functions using program change messages. Tapping using the cheesy footswitches that come with the Jam Man is OK but the response time using MIDI to tap is almost instantaneous and my rhythmic loops have gotten noticeably tighter. Via MIDI you have access to either of the 2 Loop modes (Punch-in or Phrased) regardless of which Loop mode you actually have the front panel knob set on (This I discovered by accident, it's not in the manual). With MIDI you can also access some nifty loop fading functions not available from the front panel and cueing up multiple loops on the fly is effortless as well. You still have to have the mode knob set to the correct MIDI quarter note setting for syncing to drum machines etc. On page 26 of the Jam Man manual there is a list of the 20 parameters for Loop mode which are accessible via MIDI. Parameters for the Echo and Sampling modes are available there too. I know I've grumbled here lately at some of the Jam Man's limitations (lack of undo and no odd time signature syncing, etc.) but it does do some things very well and even when I get a 'Plex, I'm going to keep my Jam Dude and use them together. Are any of you using a 'Plex and a Jam Man together ? How well do they work together? Also are any of you 'Plexers out there using MIDI to control things ? While we are on the Vortex thread , how are you hooking up your Vortexes, directly in line (as Lexicon suggests) or in the effects loop of a mixer ? I'm just using mine in line but I haven't had time to retweak things to try it out in the effects loop and I was wondering if any of you had tried it and if you liked it better or not ? Thanks and Best Regards Ed Drake From ???@??? Thu Dec 05 09:49:13 1996 >From kflint Thu Dec 5 09:23:11 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vVhVo-0002Dm-00; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 09:23:04 -0800 Date: Thu, 5 Dec 96 12:20:38 EST From: angel@matisse.pet.upenn.edu (Emmanuel Angel) Message-Id: <9612051720.AA02150@matisse.pet.upenn.edu.noname> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Vortex Expression Pedal Resent-Message-ID: <"JxKD2.A.D5B.kRwpy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1288 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 09:23:04 -0800 X-UIDL: 194144a1001ec49ec3cec03d9f307a20 >I use the Boss EV-5 for an expression pedal on my Vortex, and I've had no >problems with full range or a need for resoldering the connection. It >cost around $70. > >Travis Hartnett Thanks Travis. I will get one (ha! for nearly half the price I paid for the Vortex itself!). Mickey From ???@??? Thu Dec 05 19:54:16 1996 >From kflint Thu Dec 5 10:46:35 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vVioX-0000wE-00; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 10:46:29 -0800 Date: Thu, 5 Dec 96 11:31:44 MST Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) To: From: "Bret Moreland" Subject: re:Re[2]: Vortex Applications Notes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"O7qCLC.A.Ol.Gexpy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1290 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 10:46:30 -0800 X-UIDL: 6e2a14415df6d7a405f7814a69648c23 You guys got to me with all of this Vortex talk. Reading about an effect that is so unusual that most people can't grasp what it is, that those who have it say it will take years to _reach the bottom_ of it's capabilities, that is selling for 30% of list price, I couldn't miss this. Sound unheard, I ordered a Vortex from Guitar Center. Is the Vortex going to be the Electro Harmonix 16 second digital delay of the 90's? ------------------- Jon wrote: The envelope control was a big part of that, as well as pedal control. ------------------ What is the pedal? Is this included or do I provide it? Is there anything else I should add to the Vortex to make it more useful? regards, bret From ???@??? Thu Dec 05 19:54:28 1996 >From kflint Thu Dec 5 10:58:50 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vVj0O-0001s7-00; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 10:58:44 -0800 Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 10:55:57 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Why Vortex flopped...? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Wn0-CB.A.-bB.tpxpy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1291 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 10:58:44 -0800 X-UIDL: 68916bfae3909474733291b185cf8999 Some thoughts... -- As has been commonly mentioned here before, the factory presets don't do the unit any sort of justice. Not only is the selection of basic effects pretty tame, but the actual effects level is far too subtle to be noticed in a guitar store environment. Like I said, there was little if anything in the factory sounds to suggest that the unit was capable of some of the things it can actually do; most of the stock patches sounded like a good chorus/delay unit with a lousy control interface. The subtle velocity-sensitive bits and stereo panning details will never come across in Guitar Center, even under the best of circumstances. And most of the preset pairs are so similar that I didn't even know I was engaging morphing most of the time. -- The interface is rather non-intuitive. When I first tried it out, I must have spent about ten minutes putzing around hitting buttons and trying to figure out what was happening. I finally asked for a user's manual, and still couldn't work my way through without trying to sit down and thoroughly read through the booklet from the start -- no chance in a crowded music store. There are three reasons I sprang for a Vortex: the price was very cheap, there was a 30-day return policy on the box, and it came very highly recommended from this list and from the likes of David Torn. If *any* of these three conditions hadn't have been in effect, I probably wouldn't have snatched the unit up. Even after I did pick it up, there was still a definite period of time where I was thinking, "Hmmm, don't know if I'll be keeping *this* thing." Only after I spent several hours sitting down with the manual and manually exploring the possibilities of each individual preset (a process I'm still far from done with) was I convinced that this was a great device. I'd have to say that the main problems were/are failure to demonstrate the depth of the unit's potential in the presets, and a user interface that requires a unit-specific understanding and approach, which in the long run is one of the truly great aspects of the box but in the short term is something that most anyone (especially Joe on the Street consumer) is going to be hard-pressed to do in a standard music store environment. (The inability of many music store employees to deal with a processor that doesn't fall into the standard chorus/delay/reverb multi-fx routine does little to help matters either). Too bad, since it's such a great box. Ah well... --Andre From ???@??? Thu Dec 05 19:54:31 1996 >From kflint Thu Dec 5 11:03:21 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vVj4k-0002Ds-00; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 11:03:14 -0800 Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 10:59:15 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: re:Re[2]: Vortex Applications Notes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"2pxbZ.A.MrB.msxpy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1292 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 11:03:14 -0800 X-UIDL: 799914555ca783c6c7fada6f88e62449 On Thu, 5 Dec 1996, Bret Moreland wrote: > What is the pedal? Is this included or do I provide it? Is there > anything else I should add to the Vortex to make it more useful? There's a jack on the back of the unit that lets you plug in a controller pedal (not included) to regulate just about any effects parameter. The Vortex vets on here probably won't believe this, but after having had the unit for a couple of months and having used it in two or three performances, I *still* haven't tried plugging a pedal into the thing. I'm sure it'll increase the possibilities exponentially -- which is maybe one reason why I'm holding off on it until after finals week. --Andre From ???@??? Thu Dec 05 19:54:35 1996 >From kflint Thu Dec 5 11:28:31 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vVjT5-0004IQ-00; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 11:28:23 -0800 Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 14:04:02 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Cook X-Sender: ecook@conch.aa.msen.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: implied rhythms In-Reply-To: <849734095@mdcs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"LSYQsD.A.DsD.-Eypy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1293 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 11:28:23 -0800 X-UIDL: b181e5ce0757d650736d0c4ef4130431 On Wed, 4 Dec 1996, Sarajanes wrote: > > Somewhere in the midst of considering > issues addressed in E. Cook's thoughts on drumming with loops, and > the more recent "implied music" post, I found myself uneasy with the > seeming dichotomy of these two texts as they related to the > description of musical events. I'm not sure if the dichotomy is as strong as you feel it to be, but let's continue. (I'm understanding you to mean a dichotomy between "accidental"/"implied" and "premeditated"/"explicitly conceieved" composition, yes?) > The "linguistics & semantics" game > has always annoyed me as a person who plays music by ear, and who > could not stomach the scholasticism that musical instruction and > theory always seem to be anchored in. This is a problem, yes ("language and semantics"), especially in areas, like, say, looping material, where some of the standard rules of notation, rhythm, and such forth are bent, or just plain inapplicable. Yet, if you want to talk about the music, you have to at least passively confront this issue, as it's bound to come up sooner or later. > "play along" as it where, but for me at least the notions expressed > in "drumming with loops" seem far less viable than the plan of > attack presented in "implied music". And here's where I think the dichotomy is pointed out to not be so large. What I was presenting was just a collection of "rules of thumb" that have worked for me, in a practical sense, over the years as a largely self-taught musician. That whole discussion, in some tangential fashion, came out of a prior discussion on the role of asynchronous loops and the importance of accepting the "happy accident". The more recent thread on "implied music", to me, continued the asynch/happy accident train of thought, and I agreed with it to the point that I felt no need to add anything. The mistake, I think, is taking the suggestions that I presented on drumming w/loops as a set of rules, an ideology, whereas it was just a few tips, and perhaps places to start for a conceptually blocked percussionist to start thinking about ways to approach their musical partner's looping. > I know "different strokes for > different folks" and all Less this, I think (as that sort of winds up trivializing what any and all of us do, if it's all "equally good for someone, somewhere"), than "different approaches for different pieces". A piece of music with one set of goals can and should be set up differently than a piece with a differing set of goals. The form of the piece should be determined by it's content, I think. [And you can read "form" in the broadest sense, from choices of instrumentation, to approaches of composition, from completely intuitive, to completely scored/organized]. > I'm still just looking for music, and I have > always believed that along with rhythm, it will present itself. > I agree, with this, and many of the other points you've raised. There's just more than one way that it will present itself, and more than one way to deal with it once it does. Good comments, Bryan, thanks. --Eric Cook ecook@mail.msen.com Gravitar-Guy http://www.msen.com/~ecook/gravitar.html From ???@??? Thu Dec 05 19:54:41 1996 >From kflint Thu Dec 5 12:15:15 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vVkCD-00003n-00; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 12:15:01 -0800 Date: Thu, 05 Dec 96 14:03:54 CST From: "Todd Madson" Message-Id: <9611058498.AA849823511@ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, ToddM@lasermaster.com Subject: Re[4]: Vortex Applications Notes Resent-Message-ID: <"z5hHXD.A.BBH.pwypy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1294 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 12:15:01 -0800 X-UIDL: 8dd1ec4b9fd7ded996b1f55691d87be6 Vortex Pedals? What's that? Just kidding. I also have not plugged one in - I'm hoping for a Christmas pedal excursion. More news as it develops. Todd. P.S. I have actually used the A-B channel switching capabilities to switch channels on my Mesa Boogie preamp. It's the slickest thing I've ever seen in my life. One footswitch now controls dozens of parameters on my rig. To quote guitar player: my rig can now "make theoretical mathemeticians have option anxiety" (yes, they were talking about Torn's rig, but mine is getting there. > The Vortex vets on here probably won't believe this, but after having > had the unit for a couple of months and having used it in two or three > performances, I *still* haven't tried plugging a pedal into the thing. > I'm sure it'll increase the possibilities exponentially -- which is maybe > one reason why I'm holding off on it until after finals week. > --Andre Received: from spica.LaserMaster.Com by ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com (SMTPLINK V2.10.08) ; Thu, 05 Dec 96 12:58:01 CST Return-Path: Received: from ferret.slip.net (ferret.slip.net [204.160.88.6]) by spica.LaserMaster.Com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA10167 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 13:07:59 -0600 (CST) Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vVj2T-00022y-00; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 11:00:53 -0800 Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 10:59:15 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: re:Re[2]: Vortex Applications Notes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"2pxbZ.A.MrB.msxpy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1292 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: ToddM@lasermaster.com Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 11:00:54 -0800 From ???@??? Thu Dec 05 19:54:45 1996 >From kflint Thu Dec 5 12:36:33 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vVkWu-0001hI-00; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 12:36:24 -0800 Date: 05 Dec 96 15:12:06 EST From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Why Vortex flopped...? Message-ID: <961205201205_100041.247_JHB66-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"yn4h7C.A.lLB.4Dzpy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1295 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 12:36:24 -0800 X-UIDL: 084e3642472559ab29efbbcffd4513ba > Only after I spent several hours sitting down with the manual and manually > exploring the possibilities of each individual preset (a process I'm still > far from done with) was I convinced that this was a great device. Ok, now, Vortex-users-who-have-managed-to-find-interesting-sounds, *please* do us beginners a favor and upload your favorite *wild* patches! I've listed the parameter names below, you just need to fill in the numbers! If enough patches are submitted, I'll make a web page for Vortex patches, or at least collect them on the Vortex thread page. -Michael ------------------------------ Patch name .. Preset # .... Mix ......... Output ...... Mod FX Lvl .. Echo FX Lvl . Morph A/B ... Envelope .... Echo 1 ...... Echo 2 ...... Feedback 1 .. Feedback 2 .. Rate 1 ...... Depth 1 ..... Resonance 1 . Rate 2 ...... Depth 2 ..... Resonance 2 . ------------------------------ From ???@??? Thu Dec 05 19:55:05 1996 >From kflint Thu Dec 5 14:14:45 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vVm43-0001JP-00; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 14:14:43 -0800 Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 14:10:54 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Why Vortex flopped...? In-Reply-To: <961205201205_100041.247_JHB66-1@CompuServe.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"YRY6RC.A.i2.qg0py"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1296 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 14:14:43 -0800 X-UIDL: 49be8a00f17241ab2835f77d505690da On 5 Dec 1996, Michael Peters wrote: > Ok, now, Vortex-users-who-have-managed-to-find-interesting-sounds, *please* > do us beginners a favor and upload your favorite *wild* patches! I've listed > the parameter names below, you just need to fill in the numbers! OK, I can submit at least one or two. But it'll have to wait until I've got time to set the hardware up and take down the approrpiate notes; probably not until around this time next week. (Finals and all). 'Till then, --Andre From ???@??? Thu Dec 05 19:55:08 1996 >From kflint Thu Dec 5 14:41:55 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vVmUG-0003LT-00; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 14:41:48 -0800 Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:30:56 -0600 (CST) From: Dave Stagner To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Why Vortex flopped...? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"qnFlsC.A.VYC.A10py"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1297 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 14:41:48 -0800 X-UIDL: e264480aaa2da73107a5abcef1e4a7f0 I wonder if the Vortex would have been better marketed as a "Try it for 30 days" bit instead. And I'll agree, it was priced too high, considering it was competing with some very full-featured (if mind-bogglingly dull and generic) multi-effects from other companies. I dunno about the EH16 of the 90s, though. After all, I got to the bottom of my EH16 pretty quickly. Sometimes I don't feel I've even scratched the surface of the Vortex. Unfortunately, I've had little time to work with the Vortex since I got good pickups installed in my acoustic guitar. Using it with the acoustic is a whole new ball game. The sharp, percussive attack and wide dynamic range of the acoustic guitar feels very different from the electric, especially distorted electric. I do miss wrapping clouds of ambience around sustaining notes, though. Maybe I'll figure out some way to get good distortion again... -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.net */ -Charles Fort From ???@??? Thu Dec 05 09:49:11 1996 >From kflint Thu Dec 5 09:16:11 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vVhP5-0001db-00; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 09:16:07 -0800 Message-Id: <199612051712.JAA94970@scv1.apple.com> Subject: Vortex Expression Pedal Date: Thu, 5 Dec 96 23:12:19 -0000 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"f6BEKB.A.LLB.HJwpy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1287 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 09:16:07 -0800 X-UIDL: ae92acaef12a8f81419983a1ace5a579 I use the Boss EV-5 for an expression pedal on my Vortex, and I've had no problems with full range or a need for resoldering the connection. It cost around $70. Travis Hartnett From ???@??? Fri Dec 06 10:11:32 1996 >From kflint Thu Dec 5 23:02:30 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vVuIm-00041j-00; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 23:02:28 -0800 Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 22:57:47 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199612060657.WAA19829@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <9611028495.AA849558907@ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com> Subject: Vortex Applications Notes Resent-Message-ID: <"5xsI4B.A.7gD.vQ8py"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1298 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 23:02:28 -0800 X-UIDL: 46e27e0fae8b198dd5e7dd7d1f16448b "Todd Madson" writes: >Hi kids - I've been very busy lately so no time to correspond, much less to get >my "ghosts" track ready for the compilation CD. I've probably missed out on the >chance to get it submitted I'll wager. Nope. I don't have enough stuff to fill the disk yet. Keep those contributions coming! Ray Peck 24653 Summerhill Ave Los Altos, CA 94024 From ???@??? Fri Dec 06 10:11:34 1996 >From kflint Thu Dec 5 23:26:31 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vVug1-0005wR-00; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 23:26:29 -0800 Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 23:23:47 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199612060723.XAA20944@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <199612022246.OAA57350@scv1.apple.com> Subject: Implied music Resent-Message-ID: <"rqSuTD.A.kcF.Bp8py"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1299 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 23:26:29 -0800 X-UIDL: effa852e5e675255a038cb22d0ffc9fa >After a while, I'd go sit out on the porch and listen to it mixed in >with the sounds of cars going by, enjoying the worried looks of >passers-by. I found that turning the amp in a different direction also >had an effect on what happened, probably because the room I was in had >high ceilings, no carpet and was decently sized. > >Maybe this is a little off-subject for the group, but I thought I'd >delurk. > >Travis Hartnett Not at all: it was one of my favorite posts ever sent to the list. From ???@??? Fri Dec 06 10:11:41 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 6 02:00:11 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vVx4j-0001qZ-00; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 02:00:09 -0800 Date: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 04:50:51 -0500 (EST) From: JOHNPOLLOCK@delphi.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: Vortex Applications Notes To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Message-id: <01ICOED7D9FC973AGM@delphi.com> X-VMS-To: INTERNET"Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Resent-Message-ID: <"0emYFD.A.6_.Cy-py"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1300 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 02:00:09 -0800 X-UIDL: 88729ad57399042ed86639e3ccbac1c9 Jon Durant wrote: [a fascinating history of the Vortex] Jon, thanks very much for taking the time to lay it out. >As you can see, this box has so much it's hard to imagine people not >getting it. For me, even the small percentage of its unique features that I've used so far warrant my purchase. :-) >BTW: The GC blow-out deal makes Lexicon $0 per unit. GC bought them at >Lex's cost to remove them from inventory. GC makes about $20/unit. Good >profit, huh? This strongly suggests to me that if the list price had been $350-390, and the street price $269-299, the box might have sold and everyone in the chain would have made some bucks. >(I can still hear the dirisive laughter from my friends at Digidreck.) You touch a nerve here, my friend. When I first saw the first ad for the JamAccomplice, my heart leapt in my bosom--here was everything I wanted in a delay unit ('cept that chromatic tuner :-> ). Then, that selfsame pump sank like a stone as I read, down at the very bottom, those dread words: "A Harman International Company." I had just been through a very bitter year attempting (unsuccessfully) to have a birth defect in my GFX-1 preamp repaired under warranty-- a unit which I was enticed to buy by advertising and an owners manual that were full of misstatements, untruths, prevarications, falsehoods, lies, damned lies, and (just possibly) one or two mistakes (details available upon request). Much as I ached (and still do) for a JamCompadre, I resolved never to buy from that company again, and I would not have bought the Vortex if GC hadn't practically shoved it into my hands. If the Vortex holds up, or if any problems I have with it are properly repaired, then maybe I'll be able to let myself think about getting a JamHomme. John Email: johnpollock@delphi.com Troubador Tech on the Web--http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock/ From ???@??? Fri Dec 06 10:11:38 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 6 01:59:11 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vVx3l-0001kA-00; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 01:59:09 -0800 Date: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 04:51:04 -0500 (EST) From: JOHNPOLLOCK@delphi.com Subject: Re: Vortex To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Message-id: <01ICOEDIXC26973AGM@delphi.com> X-VMS-To: INTERNET"Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Resent-Message-ID: <"aVMY9D.A.XBB.Oy-py"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1301 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 01:59:09 -0800 X-UIDL: 6527db71cebc3a7e1fe85947e8edc8b2 Mickey Angel and Dave Stagner raised questions about expression pedals for the Vortex. Not owning one or having the money for one, I converted a mono volume pedal for the purpose by inserting the mono plugs of a stereo Y-cord into the pedal, and the stereo plug into the Vortex. Works fine. :-) If it doesn't work at first (it didn't for me), swap the mono plugs. Dave wrote, in part: >If you find a good expression pedal, let us know, okay? I'm currently >using a modified ADA expression pedal, but I can't get it to sweep >completely from 1-64. Generally, it doesn't go below 12-13 at the low >end, which is irritating. That would drive me crazy-- my current favorite Vortexture is a strong, simple rhythmic loop in Deja Vu B with Envelope set (by pedal) to 3 or 4, letting a wash of sound build up gradually. You might be able to fix your ADA pedal just by opening it up, loosening the pot's retaining nut and rotating the pot so that it cuts off completely. Since the low end of the control range is so important to me, I'm contemplating adding a fixed resistor in series with the top end of the pot, along with a bypass switch so I can have it both ways. As it is now, I have much more accurate control over the top end. John Email: johnpollock@delphi.com Troubador Tech on the Web--http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock/ From ???@??? Fri Dec 06 10:11:39 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 6 01:59:44 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vVx4I-0001nY-00; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 01:59:42 -0800 Date: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 04:51:15 -0500 (EST) From: JOHNPOLLOCK@delphi.com Subject: Re: Why Vortex flopped...? To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Message-id: <01ICOEDSP3XW973AGM@delphi.com> X-VMS-To: INTERNET"Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Resent-Message-ID: <"bfQ3d.A.FDB.by-py"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1302 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 01:59:42 -0800 X-UIDL: 3a1a7dbb8c87412154047caad89f6d17 Dave Stagner wrote, regarding use of the Vortex with acoustic guitar: >I do miss wrapping clouds of ambience around sustaining notes, though. >Maybe I'll figure out some way to get good distortion again... My very first exploration of the Vortex was with an acoustic, equipped with both piezo and magnetic pickups. I ran the piezo into the Vortex, and the magnetic into a distortion stompbox; outputs to a mixer. It was glorious! I use stainless steel strings on everything, including acoustic guitar; they last much longer, are much better balanced through a magnetic pickup than bronze, and are much brighter than regular nickel electric guitar strings. They definitely sound different than bronze; only you can decide whether the difference is acceptable to you. For heavy distortion, I suggest the worst soundhole pickup you can find-- something that's all midrange honk (like most electric guitar humbuckers sound to me!) My original Lawrence FT-145s are too good; for my next round of acoustic experiments, I'll use a really crappy George L's with no highs at all, and fairly high output. It gave me wonderful distortion last time I tried it, before I had the Vortex. John Email: johnpollock@delphi.com Troubador Tech on the Web--http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock/ From ???@??? Fri Dec 06 10:11:43 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 6 03:16:46 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vVyGn-0000Ei-00; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 03:16:41 -0800 Message-Id: <5323.199612061110@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 11:10:57 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr ) Subject: Re: Re[2]: Vortex Applications Notes Resent-Message-ID: <"MTc-RD.A.HBH.y9_py"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1303 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 03:16:41 -0800 X-UIDL: 262ef75cf2efdb680edbe729d8579abc >I had just been through a very bitter year attempting (unsuccessfully) >to have a birth defect in my GFX-1 preamp repaired under warranty-- >a unit which I was enticed to buy by advertising and an owners manual >that were full of misstatements, untruths, prevarications, falsehoods, >lies, damned lies, and (just possibly) one or two mistakes (details >available upon request). Isn't that the "Twin Tube" model? I'm curious. Consider this a request! Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Everything in moderation, including moderation" (Zen Proverb) From ???@??? Fri Dec 06 10:11:44 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 6 03:17:07 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vVyH8-0000H0-00; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 03:17:02 -0800 Message-Id: <5452.199612061113@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 11:13:09 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr ) Subject: Re: re:Re[2]: Vortex Applications Notes Resent-Message-ID: <"Xxirz.A.WJH.3-_py"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1304 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 03:17:02 -0800 X-UIDL: a4c807deb426593c1cd18e1b548e3da7 Andre, Finally (yes, it takes this long to get to the UK) saw the GP article. Pretty damned impressive! Congratulations! Michael, pretty damned jealous! :) Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Everything in moderation, including moderation" (Zen Proverb) From ???@??? Fri Dec 06 10:11:48 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 6 06:15:35 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vW13u-0000Qk-00; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 06:15:34 -0800 Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 15:13:56 +0100 (MET) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Vortex again;;; Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"gGLkd.A.CS.yoCqy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1305 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 06:15:34 -0800 X-UIDL: 38c26c780b1e2b0d7c5a74fead485491 GRRR! it happens reading you all enthusiast Vortex user i'm the only one that bought one on faith reading looping delight, and having from GC a unit that is dead, and won't be covered by warranty because I live outside the US. I wish I could have a bleen effect you all talked about, I wish "orbits" would exist on mine... I wish I could have register parts to keep in memory my stuff.... But i'm stuck with only 8 preset instead of 16.... Grrrr again.... Olivier Malhomme From ???@??? Sat Dec 07 13:40:18 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 6 14:42:03 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vW8xu-0000rB-00; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 14:41:54 -0800 Message-Id: <199612062239.OAA10026@scv3.apple.com> Subject: Re: Vortex Date: Fri, 6 Dec 96 14:42:50 -0000 x-sender: attix@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Tom Attix* To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"1wxxW.A.tj.KCKqy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1314 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 14:41:54 -0800 X-UIDL: a73ff0b97aa7de994c877f35fc37f73e >Just got a Vortex and am wondering if there is a way to bypass it other >than using a footswitch ... in other words if it is in my rig and always >has signal going thru it, how might I turn it off, while maintaining signal >going thru > >paul Yeah, I had the same problem. The only solution I have come up with for this one is to create a patch that has the MIX selection turned all the way off (no effect) and then save it. It's a lame solution to a lame problem, rack gear should always have a bypass switch (it's not just good user interface, it's the law...) -Tom Attix _______________________________________________ attix@apple.com _______________________________________________ "Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps". - Emo Phillips From ???@??? Fri Dec 06 10:12:13 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 6 07:36:33 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vW2KG-0006fw-00; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 07:36:32 -0800 Message-Id: <12977.199612061531@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 15:31:07 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr ) Subject: Re: Vortex again;;; Resent-Message-ID: <"t59vm.A.T1F.owDqy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1306 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 07:36:32 -0800 X-UIDL: 3dbf68c2615c135aec09f75a02232351 >GRRR! it happens reading you all enthusiast Vortex user i'm the only one >that bought one on faith reading looping delight, and having from GC a >unit that is dead, and won't be covered by warranty because I live outside >the US. I wish I could have a bleen effect you all talked about, I wish >"orbits" would exist on mine... I wish I could have register parts to keep >in memory my stuff.... But i'm stuck with only 8 preset instead of 16.... This is worrying... I've been considering buying a GC Vortex if I can raise the capital (it's £90 rather than best-UK price of £250), but I don't know if they'll just figure out "it's outside the warranty area" and ship me a dud. Any ideas? Just as a repost, how do you seect patches on a Vortex during performance? I have heard repeated mentions that it's not MIDI. If so, are you stuck with using up/down pedals? Please help me with this one. Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Everything in moderation, including moderation" (Zen Proverb) From ???@??? Fri Dec 06 10:12:21 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 6 08:12:09 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vW2si-0001lq-00; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 08:12:08 -0800 Message-Id: <9612061606.AA02565@acc> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 11:08:10 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: jspeer@haverford.edu Subject: Echoplex system version? Resent-Message-ID: <"oOCw5B.A.0cB.zUEqy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1307 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 08:12:08 -0800 X-UIDL: e53d31f7c329f8966a77732e02029c05 Can anyone help me with Echoplex? I am considering buying one, but I would like to be sure that I am buying the latest version of the system. What are the distinuishing marks or phrases or insignia that I should look for? Thanks! Jim ********************** My Town: Philadelphia! From ???@??? Fri Dec 06 11:12:16 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 6 11:02:11 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vW5X6-0007Fj-00; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 11:02:00 -0800 Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 13:48:07 -0500 From: KRosser414@aol.com Message-ID: <961206134806_940213546@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Vortex / LXP-5 Resent-Message-ID: <"tPFtuD.A.14F.wqGqy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1308 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 11:02:00 -0800 X-UIDL: 4ee67eb72e1379cb5e864137e3640ce4 I've been following the recent Vortex discussion with some curiosity - I got mine about a year ago thinking I'd be able to tweeze a lot of really weird custom sounds out of it (which I have done), but much to my surprise I liked the chorus/delay/vibrato/flanging/leslie/etc. stuff on it so much it ended up replacing about four floor pedals dedicated to that stuff. Pretty amazing little box. I also love how warm it sounds with the guitar signal. I have a Lexicon LXP-5 I'm not having as good luck with. Not only is it a pain in the ass to program, but I can't seem to get rid of the shrill "digital-ness" of the guitar sound through it, and I don't want to be cluttering up the signal more with some post-effect EQ or such. I do like the fact that it does infinite loops that you can lock in and then play over, as well as a pitch shifter that's in tune in all octaves without any warbling or slap-back, but I don't like what it does to the tone. Maybe I just need to figure out the internal workings a little better, but it's a tough nut to crack, programming-wise. Maybe it was more intended for studio use rather than as a guitar effect? Ken R From ???@??? Sat Dec 07 13:39:44 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 6 11:55:10 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vW6MS-0003Xo-00; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 11:55:04 -0800 Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 11:47:05 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Echoplex system version? In-Reply-To: <9612061606.AA02565@acc> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"oj4Ub.A.VtC.TgHqy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1309 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 11:55:04 -0800 X-UIDL: e5e7818090fb5e58cd84d60635ee31c3 On Fri, 6 Dec 1996 jspeer@haverford.edu wrote: > Can anyone help me with Echoplex? I am considering buying one, but I would > like to be sure that I am buying the latest version of the system. What > are the distinuishing marks or phrases or insignia that I should look for? > Thanks! > Jim There's only one version of the Plex currently on the market (unless you find one of the first 100 or so manufactured. If the LED indicator reads "3.0" on power-up, it's one of the very first. If it reads "3.2", it's after that. Get the 3.2 edition.) The software upgrade is still tied up in contractual limbo at Gibson/Oberheim. --Andre From ???@??? Sat Dec 07 13:39:54 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 6 13:46:06 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vW85q-000491-00; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 13:46:02 -0800 Date: 06 Dec 96 16:23:47 EST From: "Henry I. Bornstein" <73134.1041@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Echoplex problems -- help Message-ID: <961206212347_73134.1041_EHJ130-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"PZjI3.A._qD.mNJqy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1310 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 13:46:02 -0800 X-UIDL: 9a65deffd461b9880a0eba9c93405823 I'm having two problems with my echoplexes. Any help would be greatly appreciated: 1) If I try to use Brother sync between the two machines, it works for a while, but then crashes and one or both machines lock up. I talked to someone who said there was a hardware update available that might solve this. Has anyone had this problem, and does anyone know about this hardware update? 2) I've been unsuccessful in attempting to archive loops by sending them via Midi Sample Dump Standard to a MAC computer running Alchemy software. I am able to send the sample to the computer successfully, but when I attempt to download it to the Echoplex, I get an error message that says "insufficient memory." I"ve got plenty of memory in the computer, and this has happened for the shortest loops when the echoplex had 120 secs of free memory. From what I can tell, the Alchemy error message is the one that comes up if the sampler is out of memory, as I have been able to reproduce the message when I attempt to send to another sampler that is fully loaded. Has anyone been able to download from a computer using SDS? It would be great if I could get this to work. From ???@??? Sat Dec 07 13:40:21 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 6 14:45:28 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vW91H-0001AG-00; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 14:45:23 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 19:08:10 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Why Vortex flopped...? Resent-Message-ID: <"8onYAD.A.ly.qEKqy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1315 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 14:45:23 -0800 X-UIDL: f6bbe3d07d9e30734d464f1d62a8f9a7 The Man Himself put down: >-- As has been commonly mentioned here before, the factory presets don't >do the unit any sort of justice. Not only is the selection of basic >effects pretty tame, but the actual effects level is far too subtle to be >noticed in a guitar store environment. Like I said, there was little if >anything in the factory sounds to suggest that the unit was capable of >some of the things it can actually do; most of the stock patches sounded >like a good chorus/delay unit with a lousy control interface. The subtle >velocity-sensitive bits and stereo panning details will never come across >in Guitar Center, even under the best of circumstances. And most of the >preset pairs are so similar that I didn't even know I was engaging >morphing most of the time. Exactly. I had half an hour in a friends studio. It was new to him, too. We found pretty quickly how to operate it, but we were not interested in chorus and such sounds and up to date I hardly can imagine what more it does. But Chris will bring me one, he said! YIPIE! We might have a good time... ;-) Matthias From ???@??? Sat Dec 07 13:40:19 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 6 14:45:27 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vW91H-0001AJ-00; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 14:45:23 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 19:08:26 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Re[2]: Vortex Applications Notes Resent-Message-ID: <"2xiUeD.A.Gz.xEKqy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1316 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 14:45:23 -0800 X-UIDL: 8a9175b73eb3056727974ea5c64cfa4e Jon tells: >Eventually, some smart person put his hands on a new (at the >time) 2105 chip (manufacturer escapes me temporarily, sorry) Thats Analog Devices, really the cheapest DSP there was. and began >experimenting. He discovered some serious mind-altering delay modulation stuff >which simply couldn't be done within a Lexichip. You meand there is no possibility to do the sounds on a PCM80? That must be a limit of the Lexichip then, because I cannot see anything the 2105 does that the "big" standard DSP don't do. >Then somebody stumbled into the morphing thing, >and a whole new set of doors opened up. But morphing could and should be done on the PCM80, right? >Morphing: OK, it was "an idea who's time had come", but I will say this. >Morphing is the primary reason I use the box. I use it all the time, to either >swell in delays, fast pedal detunes, slow ring-mod to >flangin/panning/looping--fractal, or sometimes leave the pedal somewhere in the >middle for horribly nasty beauty. I was looking for that for all kind of sounds, because I did not want to switch. So I have a fader between two guitar sounds I can choose. On one end piezo, on the other bridge distorted, on one end polydistortion, on the other clean humbucking... is that morphing, anyway? >Then, 20 years from now, you'll be able to sell it for $1200 as a classic, >vintage, whatever... Probably. And the JamMan, and the PLEX? Certainly the LOOP delay will have a tremendous value - there are only 100 of it! Matthias From ???@??? Sat Dec 07 13:40:00 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 6 14:07:29 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vW8QZ-0005nx-00; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 14:07:27 -0800 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 17:10:33 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Vortex Resent-Message-ID: <"LElOUC.A.bUF.7iJqy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1311 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 14:07:27 -0800 X-UIDL: 33c189d0d69d3e6fb8d455dbce742571 Just got a Vortex and am wondering if there is a way to bypass it other than using a footswitch ... in other words if it is in my rig and always has signal going thru it, how might I turn it off, while maintaining signal going thru paul From ???@??? Sat Dec 07 13:40:11 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 6 14:14:42 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vW8XV-0006Oq-00; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 14:14:37 -0800 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 17:16:41 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: Echoplex system version? Resent-Message-ID: <"gNwHuC.A.AzF.xoJqy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1312 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 14:14:37 -0800 X-UIDL: 40d385dd11bcc2f300f2041f967c8f08 >On Fri, 6 Dec 1996 jspeer@haverford.edu wrote: > >> Can anyone help me with Echoplex? I am considering buying one, but I would >> like to be sure that I am buying the latest version of the system. What >> are the distinuishing marks or phrases or insignia that I should look for? >> Thanks! >> Jim > >There's only one version of the Plex currently on the market (unless you >find one of the first 100 or so manufactured. If the LED indicator reads >"3.0" on power-up, it's one of the very first. If it reads "3.2", it's >after that. Get the 3.2 edition.) The software upgrade is still tied up >in contractual limbo at Gibson/Oberheim. > >--Andre what is the going price of the echoplex these days? paul From ???@??? Sat Dec 07 13:40:28 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 6 16:37:07 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vWAlF-0001gf-00; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 16:36:57 -0800 Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 19:30:59 -0500 From: PMimlitsch@aol.com Message-ID: <961206193059_707658353@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Vortex/Jamman Resent-Message-ID: <"UaI11D.A.ZOB.KsLqy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1317 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 16:36:57 -0800 X-UIDL: 040cf593dfa2a71e49bff48c04e72142 O.K. -- I'm convinced.-- Could someone re-post the phone # of the place that's selling the Vortex unit for $150.00? Also, I'm thinking about adding another Jamman to my setup but have also been thinking about the Echoplex. However I'm a little worried that the Echoplex might not be as intuitive to use as the Jamman. Any thoughts or suggestions? Saw an add in the recent Rock and Rythm catalog for a thing called "Dimension Beam" by Interactive Light that puts out an invisible cone of infrared light. Apparantly any movement within different parts of this beam can be used to send midi signals to trigger sounds, lights etc. Anybody using this? ---Thanks. Take care.---Paul From ???@??? Sat Dec 07 13:40:39 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 6 17:13:14 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vWBKG-0004Si-00; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 17:13:08 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961207010813.009929d8@pure.pureatria.com> X-Sender: sechevar@pure.pureatria.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 17:08:13 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Sean Echevarria Subject: memory Resent-Message-ID: <"xAgOqD.A.J_D.MQMqy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1320 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 17:13:08 -0800 X-UIDL: 4c333b4607e255d49ee9e1302a433841 Fry's in the SF Bay area has a sale on 30 pin 4MB SIMMS for 18.95 each this week (limit of 4 per person - how convenient for Echoplex owners!). At 08:08 PM 12/6/96 -0500, someone wrote: > >where did you get it and do you know how much for additional memory > From ???@??? Sat Dec 07 13:40:36 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 6 17:06:10 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vWBDQ-0003sZ-00; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 17:06:04 -0800 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 20:08:16 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: Echoplex system version? Resent-Message-ID: <"m_Z5x.A.IcD.lJMqy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1318 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 17:06:04 -0800 X-UIDL: ddc018e62d954960c8738ba777a131d0 >>what is the going price of the echoplex these days? >> >>paul > > >I just ordered one this week, and $549 for the 12.5 second configuration >was the standard. The footpedal runs about $100. > >Travis Hartnett where did you get it and do you know how much for additional memory From ???@??? Sat Dec 07 13:40:52 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 6 20:22:19 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vWEHI-0002jy-00; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 20:22:16 -0800 Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 20:19:39 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199612070419.UAA10847@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: Vortex Resent-Message-ID: <"vGbyP.A.DdC.bCPqy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1321 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 20:22:16 -0800 X-UIDL: 33fcf828c9af95c40bd980d51b88e12a > >Also, if you find an expression pedal, be prepared to do some >soldering. The wiring on the Vortex is a little unusual. > The cheap plastic Roland pedals work great. From ???@??? Sat Dec 07 13:40:14 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 6 14:29:43 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vW8m1-0007cM-00; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 14:29:38 -0800 Message-Id: <199612062225.OAA21306@scv1.apple.com> Subject: Re: Echoplex system version? Date: Sat, 7 Dec 96 04:25:47 -0000 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"OEuD0D.A.SyG.C1Jqy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1313 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 14:29:38 -0800 X-UIDL: 3998c86081b4532f46de4e82bac98388 >what is the going price of the echoplex these days? > >paul I just ordered one this week, and $549 for the 12.5 second configuration was the standard. The footpedal runs about $100. Travis Hartnett From ???@??? Sat Dec 07 13:40:55 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 6 20:26:27 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vWELH-000349-00; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 20:26:23 -0800 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 23:29:01 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: Echoplex system version? Resent-Message-ID: <"iv880D.A.UtC.vFPqy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1322 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 20:26:23 -0800 X-UIDL: 550e1fc3aa8cd10c8835d3f738217efe >>>>what is the going price of the echoplex these days? >>>> >>>>paul >>> >>> >>>I just ordered one this week, and $549 for the 12.5 second configuration >>>was the standard. The footpedal runs about $100. >>> >>>Travis Hartnett >> >>where did you get it and do you know how much for additional memory > > >I purchased the Echoplex and the controller from Banana's At Large, >415-457-7600. >I paid $116 for 4 4MB simms, to bring it up to 198sec. I ordered the ram >from Techworks @ 800-688-7466. Shipping was $5, next day. thanks From ???@??? Sat Dec 07 13:40:37 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 6 17:12:54 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vWBJr-0004Qw-00; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 17:12:43 -0800 Message-Id: <199612070110.RAA20872@scv1.apple.com> Subject: Re: Echoplex system version? Date: Sat, 7 Dec 96 07:11:06 -0000 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"Lm2PRC.A.S9D.5PMqy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1319 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 17:12:43 -0800 X-UIDL: e293793a351da704a9be91bad15f0434 >>>what is the going price of the echoplex these days? >>> >>>paul >> >> >>I just ordered one this week, and $549 for the 12.5 second configuration >>was the standard. The footpedal runs about $100. >> >>Travis Hartnett > >where did you get it and do you know how much for additional memory I purchased the Echoplex and the controller from Banana's At Large, 415-457-7600. I paid $116 for 4 4MB simms, to bring it up to 198sec. I ordered the ram from Techworks @ 800-688-7466. Shipping was $5, next day. From ???@??? Sat Dec 07 13:40:59 1996 >From kflint Sat Dec 7 01:30:49 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vWJ5r-00011f-00; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 01:30:47 -0800 Date: Sat, 07 Dec 1996 04:29:05 -0500 (EST) From: JOHNPOLLOCK@delphi.com Subject: Re: Vortex/Jamman To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Message-id: <01ICPRVRAV8295RZLY@delphi.com> X-VMS-To: INTERNET"Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Resent-Message-ID: <"2d-o5D.A.m1.ojTqy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1323 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 01:30:47 -0800 X-UIDL: 1c8fa834e0e18da3191a2806ed47a72f Paul wrote, >O.K. -- I'm convinced.-- Could someone re-post the phone # of the place >that's selling the Vortex unit for $150.00? There isn't a single phone number for Guitar Center, but the numbers for their 28 retail stores are on their Web site--www.musician.com John Email: johnpollock@delphi.com Troubador Tech on the Web--http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock/ From ???@??? Sat Dec 07 13:41:00 1996 >From kflint Sat Dec 7 01:32:24 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vWJ7N-00018V-00; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 01:32:21 -0800 Date: Sat, 07 Dec 1996 04:30:17 -0500 (EST) From: JOHNPOLLOCK@delphi.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: Vortex Applications Notes To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Message-id: <01ICPRX5GX5Y95RZLY@delphi.com> X-VMS-To: INTERNET"Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Resent-Message-ID: <"PebgTB.A.f7.zkTqy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1324 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 01:32:21 -0800 X-UIDL: b1de36e62eb4d566960cac51d412d5a0 In an earlier post I wrote, >>I had just been through a very bitter year attempting (unsuccessfully) >>to have a birth defect in my GFX-1 preamp repaired under warranty-- >>a unit which I was enticed to buy by advertising and an owners manual >>that were full of misstatements, untruths, prevarications, falsehoods, >>lies, damned lies, and (just possibly) one or two mistakes (details >>available upon request). And Michael P. in Glasgow wrote, >Isn't that the "Twin Tube" model? I'm curious. Consider this a request! Since the tale is long and totally off-topic, I answered Michael directly. If you want to read it as well, let me know. John Email: johnpollock@delphi.com Troubador Tech on the Web--http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock/ From ???@??? Sat Dec 07 13:41:02 1996 >From kflint Sat Dec 7 06:06:20 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vWNOR-0007Sp-00; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 06:06:15 -0800 Date: 07 Dec 96 09:02:26 EST From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: PCM 80: to morph or not to morph Message-ID: <961207140226_74074.1316_GHQ72-2@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"lcaHQB.A.r3G.KmXqy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1325 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 06:06:15 -0800 X-UIDL: 5f8ff7f6f98053685eb556fbb4ba9800 Matthias writes: >You meand there is no possibility to do the sounds on a PCM80? That must >be a limit of the Lexichip then, because I cannot see anything the 2105 >does that the "big" standard DSP don't do. The Lexichip is a great *reverb* chip, designed *specifically* to handle the rigors of Dave G.'s secret sauce. (not to mention remove the liklihood of reverse-engineering!) It does have it's limitations, due to the nature of it's design. In the PCM 80, the Lexichip is teamed up with a 56K, giving you the best of both worlds. The new MPX-1 is a Lexichip/2110 combi platter, better suited to Vortex-like oddness. But don't expect anyone to be doing them soon. Bring up the naughty M-word, and you're likely to be run out of town. The beauty of "morphing" in the Vortex, as opposed to, say, Digidrek (who began using the term for a couple of months when they thought we were on to something) was that it doesn't simply cross-fade between effects. A good look at the Vortex Manual gives you a block diagram of the many different algorithmic structures. Which tend to be convoluted and bizzarre. When you morph, those structures get transformed, and along the way, some unbelievably cool stuff takes place. The PCM 80 is designed very differently, and for a number of reasons, I'm not convinced it would work the same way. That doesn't mean it wouldn't be cool, but it would be different. And, besides, as I mentioned earlier, no one's going to go there. From ???@??? Sat Dec 07 13:41:05 1996 >From kflint Sat Dec 7 06:06:41 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vWNOn-0007Uy-00; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 06:06:37 -0800 Date: 07 Dec 96 09:02:29 EST From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: Why Vortex flopped...? Message-ID: <961207140228_74074.1316_GHQ72-3@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"2-hEo.A.83G.LmXqy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1326 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 06:06:37 -0800 X-UIDL: cbfb1dceadf5bc75a0148e76b54c534c Andre writes: >-- As has been commonly mentioned here before, the factory presets don't >do the unit any sort of justice. Not only is the selection of basic >effects pretty tame, but the actual effects level is far too subtle to be >noticed in a guitar store environment. Like I said, there was little if >anything in the factory sounds to suggest that the unit was capable of >some of the things it can actually do; most of the stock patches sounded >like a good chorus/delay unit with a lousy control interface. The subtle >velocity-sensitive bits and stereo panning details will never come across >in Guitar Center, even under the best of circumstances. And most of the >preset pairs are so similar that I didn't even know I was engaging >morphing most of the time. When I first broght the unit to Vernon Reid, I went through the presets, one by one. He thought it was cool, but wasn't overwhelmed. Then I set up a register pair of Bleen and Fractal, grabbed the e-bow, held down a note and morphed between-em. He freaked out over it. "Why didn't you show me this first?!?!" He grabbed the guitar, and stated getting completely sick. It was great fun. The sales staff at Lexicon have a tendedcy to believe in make everything useful, saily, right out of the box. An incredible time is spent on presets--and when you plug in nany reverb from them (from Alex right on up the line), you're not likely to have to do much alteration to find a sound that's right for what you're doing. But Vortex is different, and I think you're right. The presets are way too tame, and that coupled with lack of MIDI (#1 problem) were the two biggest oversights in the device. As for other issues, I can only state, again, that when the engineering management forces a package on the designers (in the case of Vertex, the Alex box), you have to make sacrifices. There's no bypass switch because there wasn't one on Alex. Nothing could be done. MIDI was not an option because of price. It was in the original spec, but taken out because of cost. Take it or leave it. In a lot of ways, there were people who made it impossible for the marketing team to really have any say over what would end up in the box. This is what we often referred to as "sales prevention". An ugly situation, which as near as I can tell, continues to worsen since my departure. Sad, really. Some really great ideas are simply being throuwn away, and very good people are getting fed up and leaving. Do I sound bitter? From ???@??? Sat Dec 07 13:41:03 1996 >From kflint Sat Dec 7 06:06:28 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vWNOb-0007To-00; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 06:06:25 -0800 Date: 07 Dec 96 09:02:32 EST From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: Vortex / LXP-5 Message-ID: <961207140231_74074.1316_GHQ72-4@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"EthcjD.A._4G.UmXqy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1327 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 06:06:25 -0800 X-UIDL: c2952ec1b00371055797ee885643b43d Ken writes, >I have a Lexicon LXP-5 I'm not having as good luck with. Not only is it a >pain in the ass to program, but I can't seem to get rid of the shrill >"digital-ness" of the guitar sound through it, and I don't want to be >cluttering up the signal more with some post-effect EQ or such. I do like >the fact that it does infinite loops that you can lock in and then play >over,as well as a pitch shifter that's in tune in all octaves without any >warbling or slap-back, but I don't like what it does to the tone. >Maybe I just need to figure out the internal workings a little better, but >it's a tough nut to crack, programming-wise. Maybe it was more intended >for studio use rather than as a guitar effect? Joe Gore (senior editor of Guitar Player, and guitarist w/PJ Harvey and others) called the LXP-5's user interface "user-sadistic". Best description I've ever heard. Horrible interface, really embarrassing. As for using it with guitar, you need to know that, yes it was designed for studio use only. At the time (and still today, though it's changing rapidly) the engineering department at Lex refused to acknowledge the guitar market as a market at all. They're all kids playing with toys, and *real* musicians don't use this stuff, only engineers do. I'm not joking here--this is how they thought, and many there still think. But, the good news is that enough people have come in who disagree that they're beginning to do some things right. The MPX-1 is the start, and you'll see more in the future, assuming they don't have the rug pulled out from under their feet. From ???@??? Sat Dec 07 13:41:06 1996 >From kflint Sat Dec 7 07:43:58 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vWOux-0006Ve-00; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 07:43:55 -0800 X-Sender: jtaylor@popmail.scsn.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: jtaylor@scsn.net (Jay Taylor) Subject: Re: Vortex Alert and formal delurk Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 10:40:58 -0500 Message-ID: <19961207154055184.AAB174@cola89.scsn.net> Resent-Message-ID: <"oT9bFC.A.CAG.xBZqy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1328 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 07:43:55 -0800 X-UIDL: 5a8569d2be156785f8b352173dd2ef5a john - what city is the guitar center in? At 05:09 AM 11/30/96 -0500, you wrote: >Hello, > >Just in case someone still wants one, the Guitar Center "December Deal >Days" catalog announces a "Last Chance On Lexicon Price Breakthrough!" >on the Vortex at $149.99. Presumably, they have enough left to warrant >the catalog space. They also advertise the DOD DFX94 4-second >sampler/delay stompbox for $120-- can anyone give a real-world review >of this unit? Is it worth the money? > >I've been reading the newsletter and visiting the Web site since Kim >made the announcement in the Digital Guitar Digest. I'm delurking >now because I feel a flood of questions and comments building up, >and think it only fair to give you an idea who they're coming from. > >I'm possibly the oldest reader of this list (still 51, for a few weeks), >and likely one of the newest loop addicts (I got my Vortex three weeks >ago today). I played music for a living for 15 years, beginning as >a steel guitarist and ending up as a one-person band, driving a pair of >synthesizers with a MIDI guitar and a MIDI pedal keyboard while singing >or playing harmonica. I "retired" several years ago, after I realized I >dreaded going to work; I'm now beginning to recapture the joy of making >music for its own sake, and for mine. > >Rather than burdening the list with details of my gear, I invite anyone >interested to my Troubador Tech Web site (URL in sig), which is devoted >to tools and techniques of possible interest to the solo simultaneous >multiinstrumentalist. It includes the modest beginning of a page on >delays and looping, where you can find out how to get four delays of >up to 12 seconds each from a Casio VZ-series synthesizer. > >I'm deeply grateful to everyone who contributes to this project, for >the information and the inspiration. May all your loops yield happy >surprises! > >John Email: johnpollock@delphi.com >Troubador Tech on the Web--http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock/ > > Jay Taylor P.O. Box 1333 The State Columbia, S.C. 29201 (803) 771-8549 fax: (803) 771-8430, 8480 jtaylor@scsn.net From ???@??? Sat Dec 07 13:41:08 1996 >From kflint Sat Dec 7 07:47:47 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vWOyg-0006pe-00; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 07:47:46 -0800 X-Sender: jtaylor@popmail.scsn.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: jtaylor@scsn.net (Jay Taylor) Subject: Re: Why Vortex flopped...? Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 10:45:07 -0500 Message-ID: <19961207154506385.AAA184@cola89.scsn.net> Resent-Message-ID: <"MYwCkC.A.VVG.qFZqy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1329 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 07:47:46 -0800 X-UIDL: ba4a263c7a66bb95966e4d1e47967fe4 anybody - where can i get a mail-order vortex at a good price? i need to forward it to the jolly old morph. (have lost address and phone obtained earlier.) jay At 09:02 AM 12/7/96 EST, you wrote: >Andre writes: > >>-- As has been commonly mentioned here before, the factory presets don't >>do the unit any sort of justice. Not only is the selection of basic >>effects pretty tame, but the actual effects level is far too subtle to be >>noticed in a guitar store environment. Like I said, there was little if >>anything in the factory sounds to suggest that the unit was capable of >>some of the things it can actually do; most of the stock patches sounded >>like a good chorus/delay unit with a lousy control interface. The subtle >>velocity-sensitive bits and stereo panning details will never come across >>in Guitar Center, even under the best of circumstances. And most of the >>preset pairs are so similar that I didn't even know I was engaging >>morphing most of the time. > >When I first broght the unit to Vernon Reid, I went through the presets, one by >one. He thought it was cool, but wasn't overwhelmed. Then I set up a register >pair of Bleen and Fractal, grabbed the e-bow, held down a note and morphed >between-em. He freaked out over it. "Why didn't you show me this first?!?!" He >grabbed the guitar, and stated getting completely sick. It was great fun. > >The sales staff at Lexicon have a tendedcy to believe in make everything useful, >saily, right out of the box. An incredible time is spent on presets--and when >you plug in nany reverb from them (from Alex right on up the line), you're not >likely to have to do much alteration to find a sound that's right for what >you're doing. But Vortex is different, and I think you're right. The presets are >way too tame, and that coupled with lack of MIDI (#1 problem) were the two >biggest oversights in the device. > >As for other issues, I can only state, again, that when the engineering >management forces a package on the designers (in the case of Vertex, the Alex >box), you have to make sacrifices. There's no bypass switch because there wasn't >one on Alex. Nothing could be done. MIDI was not an option because of price. It >was in the original spec, but taken out because of cost. Take it or leave it. > >In a lot of ways, there were people who made it impossible for the marketing >team to really have any say over what would end up in the box. This is what we >often referred to as "sales prevention". An ugly situation, which as near as I >can tell, continues to worsen since my departure. Sad, really. Some really great >ideas are simply being throuwn away, and very good people are getting fed up and >leaving. > >Do I sound bitter? > > > Jay Taylor P.O. Box 1333 The State Columbia, S.C. 29201 (803) 771-8549 fax: (803) 771-8430, 8480 jtaylor@scsn.net From ???@??? Sat Dec 07 13:41:09 1996 >From kflint Sat Dec 7 07:49:52 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vWP0h-000719-00; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 07:49:51 -0800 X-Sender: jtaylor@popmail.scsn.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: jtaylor@scsn.net (Jay Taylor) Subject: whoops Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 10:47:16 -0500 Message-ID: <19961207154715290.AAA61@cola89.scsn.net> Resent-Message-ID: <"Gru5m.A.jgG.rHZqy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1330 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 07:49:51 -0800 X-UIDL: 589a82c9b6b5181a65786bd1db86bd16 scratch that request for stores selling vortex. i overlooked the recent post answering same. jay From ???@??? Sat Dec 07 13:41:20 1996 >From kflint Sat Dec 7 08:16:52 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vWPQe-0001MN-00; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 08:16:40 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 14:20:14 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: implied rhythms Resent-Message-ID: <"BEu6QB.A.6CB.1fZqy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1331 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 08:16:40 -0800 X-UIDL: 61ba2a1145b94cc656a6d4c604f8d046 Bryan Helm said a lot of interesting stuff, hard to understand though. At first I was fascinated reading: > The contrast between an > acccompanied loop versus a solo loop is really clearly heard if > you listen to any "Frippertronics" work with a lead non-loop melody, > such as "Evening Star", and compare it to solo-loop work such as > "Let The Power Fall", the differences are major. But then I thought about it and remembered my experiences and started to doubt. As loops grow longer, melodies enter on top of multiplied bases, and maybe disapear again, the limits between the live and loop part get lost. And I think its good. The musician listener will always know what part the musician is actually playing. But for the simple "liker of music", I feel it is best to offer one integrated thing and as long as the loop and live part are as different as you say (or I understand) the loop is not really part of your playing and maybe not integrated for the listener either. This is a possible way, but probably not a basic condition. I maybe must say something of little respect: Its time to go way beyond Fripp in terms of looping! I said that to himself, too: A part of a long letter I wrote over a year ago was: ...until I found the Soundscapes CD at the beginning of this year. Listening to it, I felt the desire to contact you: I learned so much about guitar playing and music from you, mainly in the 70's, and I am still a rather limited musician. But now, I have developed the looping way of playing to a degree, where I could teach you something, too - about the technology of the machine and its musical applications. He never answered. Maybe I was not delicate enough or did not understand his record. Or he and his disciples stick to what has been found, just the same way as many stick to Strat-Marsh music as developped by Hendrix... Matthias From ???@??? Sat Dec 07 13:41:22 1996 >From kflint Sat Dec 7 08:17:21 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vWPRG-0001Qf-00; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 08:17:18 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 14:20:47 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Re[2]: Vortex Applications Notes Resent-Message-ID: <"MJwwlC.A.bGB.SgZqy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1332 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 08:17:18 -0800 X-UIDL: 0a5a30002205e05c28095ead37889e0c >selfsame pump sank like a stone as I read, down at the very bottom, >those dread words: "A Harman International Company." As fusions go on, soon you will read "Made by Mankind Inc." and after the first error (which you will certainly discover after 5 minutes, in the future) you are forced to buy only from other planets... From ???@??? Sat Dec 07 13:41:26 1996 >From kflint Sat Dec 7 08:18:21 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vWPSD-0001Wy-00; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 08:18:17 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 14:20:52 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: BIO-ELECTRONIC ? Resent-Message-ID: <"Fvgax.A.vHB.dgZqy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1333 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 08:18:17 -0800 X-UIDL: 9dd58d37fb942bba0d24753a03322148 > >Michael, >pretty damned jealous! :) Well, your nickname Dr called my atention, and I not just like englishmen, usually, but especially those sincere ones and the name PYCRAFT sounds like someone really special and the Zen Proverb is a extremely interesting one... but, I'm afraid, what really makes me risk to rob some of your time is: BIO-ELECTRONIC - What the hell... ?? I imagine you implant RS 232 into rats to monitor them... or make chips cross their legs and then procreate... Nothing but d... humble curiosity Matthias PS If anyone thinks this is off topic: shht, he is Dr., lets see whether we can finally find the resonance centre in the brain, you know, the twistplace, the ANSWER to the loop... >Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, >Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. > "Everything in moderation, including moderation" (Zen Proverb) From ???@??? Sat Dec 07 13:41:23 1996 >From kflint Sat Dec 7 08:18:05 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vWPRw-0001VP-00; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 08:18:00 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 14:21:00 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Vortex again;;; Resent-Message-ID: <"W5Zq-C.A.zIB.lgZqy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1334 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 08:18:00 -0800 X-UIDL: abdaf71b0ce799d24bf4c5014abc593b >GRRR! But i'm stuck with only 8 preset instead of 16.... > >Grrrr again.... > >Olivier Malhomme Yes I know what it feels like to have to live outside of US, speaking a wrong language, earning less, but paying a lot more for the gear - (with 1$ i get 2 ananas or 30 oranges or 50 bananas, though, hihi). So what can we do to ungrrrr our good old friend? Jon dedicated a long lament to you, in the end of october, a part of which is: >The program select knob appears to be >slightly problematic. Apparently there's an issue regarding this knob, the >details of which I know nothing, but I experienced the same difficulties on my >Vortex, JamMan and Alex (all of which use the same pot). I thought it was just >my prototypes, but apparently not... Word is, it's an easy fix, and they >turn it >around pretty quickly. Since there must be one line, which we call the highest bit or MSB, that switches between the lower and higher half of the programs, that one line should be possible to detect: Probably there are 5 lines going to the switch. One is the +5V and the others flip when switching. The lowest switches every step, the next every second, the next after 4, ...8, and then the one you are looking for. If it flips too, there is a problem on the electronic side, might be more complicated. If it stays on ground (0V) there is a short cirquit along it or within the switch. If its always at +5V the switch does not do its action. In both cases, a solution can be to use a separate simple switch that pulls that very line to ground and thus lets you select between the uper or lower half of the programs... And you will have a "customized" Vortex! So stopp beeing angry, get your voltmeter out, unscrew it all... Another way: Jon: don't you have an email adress of a person a Lex who knows that bug and would tell me? Certainly, exchanging the part is the serious solution, but there usually is another one (as I experience here, living in the wrong country, too) which is not much worse and causes less trouble and waste. Matthias From ???@??? Sat Dec 07 13:41:25 1996 >From kflint Sat Dec 7 08:18:17 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vWPSA-0001Wl-00; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 08:18:14 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 14:21:06 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Vortex / LXP-5 Resent-Message-ID: <"sXO5rB.A.nLB.8gZqy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1335 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 08:18:14 -0800 X-UIDL: 10aebbda489585b34029304367defe46 > I have a Lexicon LXP-5 I'm not having as good luck with. Not only is it a >pain in the ass to program, but I can't seem to get rid of the shrill >"digital-ness" of the guitar sound through it, ...Maybe it was more >intended for >studio use rather than as a guitar effect? No, its rather "too old" to be that good. From ???@??? Sat Dec 07 13:41:34 1996 >From kflint Sat Dec 7 12:48:11 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vWTfN-00060l-00; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 12:48:09 -0800 Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 15:45:34 -0500 From: PMimlitsch@aol.com Message-ID: <961207154533_707788456@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Bon Reminder Resent-Message-ID: <"AxZzUD.A.GgF.wedqy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1336 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 12:48:09 -0800 X-UIDL: a7961f49d621370ca7d46de3b03cf461 Bon Lazaga will be performing solo (lots of looping goin' on) this Thurs. night Dec. 12th at the "Down to Earth Coffeehouse" in Mt. Holly, New Jersey. Start time 8:00pm, cover charge-$5.00. Call (609)265-9135 for info/directions etc. --------Paul From ???@??? Sat Dec 07 13:41:38 1996 >From kflint Sat Dec 7 13:17:04 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vWU7K-0000ZT-00; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 13:17:02 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 13:39:15 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Vortex / LXP-5 Resent-Message-ID: <"q3CZOB.A.0a.E6dqy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1337 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 13:17:02 -0800 X-UIDL: edf35a17fbf71b8ff215e7c839f5017a > I have a Lexicon LXP-5 I'm not having as good luck with. Not only is it a >pain in the ass to program, but I can't seem to get rid of the shrill >"digital-ness" of the guitar sound through it, and I don't want to be >cluttering up the signal more with some post-effect EQ or such. I do like >the fact that it does infinite loops that you can lock in and then play over, >as well as a pitch shifter that's in tune in all octaves without any warbling >or slap-back, but I don't like what it does to the tone. >Maybe I just need to figure out the internal workings a little better, but >it's a tough nut to crack, programming-wise. Maybe it was more intended for >studio use rather than as a guitar effect? > Hmmmm, I have an LXP-5, and while I agree it's a pain in the ass to progran, I wouldn't characterize the sound as shrill and digital. I think it's one of the "warmest" sounding digital units in its price range. I use it as well as a Boss SE-50 and alesis Midiverb III, and the lex sounds the least digital sounding of all. Maybe you are sending it too hot of a signal? It's pretty easy to distort the input, and I can hear distortion before the clipping light goes on. As far as programming it, get an MRC, the little remote controller box, if you can. I couldn't imagine programming the LXP from the front panel, but it's a breeze with the MRC. If you can't find one (I don't think they're being made anymore) a programmable MIDI fader box would work, as long as you can program system exclusive strings. I replaced my MRC with a Peavey PC 1600, w/16 faders and 16 buttons, and it's an essential part of my rig. It doesn't integrate with the LXP quite as smoothly as the MRC, but is much easier to program for other MIDI uses. If you need help with the sysex codes for the LXP, I can get them to you. >Ken R ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Sat Dec 07 23:06:31 1996 >From kflint Sat Dec 7 13:58:59 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vWUlt-0003k9-00; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 13:58:57 -0800 Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 13:57:57 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Fripp and the Plex In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"TQrMDB.A.HaD.Zheqy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1338 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 13:58:57 -0800 X-UIDL: 736563665adf76205550003419f6065d On Sat, 7 Dec 1996, Matthias Grob wrote: > I maybe must say something of little respect: Its time to go way beyond > Fripp in terms of looping! I said that to himself, too: A part of a long > letter I wrote over a year ago was: [snip] > He never answered. Maybe I was not delicate enough or did not understand > his record. Or he and his disciples stick to what has been found, just the > same way as many stick to Strat-Marsh music as developped by Hendrix... I heard that at one point, Fripp was using an Oberheim Echoplex. Is that still a part of his rig, or has he abandoned it in favor of 12 more T.C. 2290's? As far as going beyond Fripp, what are you thinking of more specifically? As Michael Peters has mentioned, some of the stuff he's doing recently is very very difficult to identify as real-time loop music, even though that's what it is. --Andre From ???@??? Sun Dec 08 12:48:15 1996 >From kflint Sun Dec 8 03:14:42 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vWhBt-0006e1-00; Sun, 8 Dec 1996 03:14:37 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 03:07:33 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Fripp and the Plex Resent-Message-ID: <"cBYvdD.A.txF.KIqqy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1339 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 03:14:37 -0800 X-UIDL: d512339c87a291841abac2ecdc643938 Andre said: >I heard that at one point, Fripp was using an Oberheim Echoplex. Is that >still a part of his rig, or has he abandoned it in favor of 12 more T.C. >2290's? > >--Andre Fripp was signed up as an endorser for the echoplex. So was Belew. Gibson never did anything about it, and never really followed up on the deal as far as I could tell. That's kind of sad, because he could have given it some great publicity. I'm not sure if Robert is still using the Echoplex, but he was really quite excited about it when he got it. I never heard from him how he was using it, so if anyone ever saw him with it, I'd be very interested to hear the story. I had the pleasure of demoing the echoplex for him before one of the King Crimson shows in SF. That's one of my fonder memories from those days. Robert was very polite, and quite friendly. He was quite enthusiastic about the echoplex and wanted to start using it as soon as possible. From what I understand, he did use it, but I don't know if he still has it in his rack. He had received a jamman around the same time from lexicon, but after the plex demo, he said the jamduder was getting sent back. :-) I spent an hour or so talking with fripp and his guitar tech about gear and the music industry and such. It was very interesting to hear his perspective on gear and looping. He had nothing but praise for 2290's, and wanted to see similar features in other loopers. Of course, the 2290 is quite limited for looping, but it sounds great and works well for creating precise, interlocking polyrhythmic loops. That seemed to be the important function he used them for. He also complained a lot about having too many footpedals, and the fact that nobody makes a good midi foot controller. He was using a Ground Control, which he was very dissatisfied with. His problems with that pedal are similar to my complaints about it. It's midi implementation is ridiculously limited, having only program change and a couple of cont. controllers that can't be accessed from the footswitches. Worst is the lack of a midi in, so you can't dump your programming to disk and reload it. This made things very complicated since he needed to maintain redundant gear for touring. We also had similar experiences with the president of Digital Music, finding him to be a bit of an arrogant jerk, unwilling to listen to others suggestions. He and his tech took me up on the stage to explain his whole rack set up. Unfortunately, the details have gotten pretty hazy, so I probably can't describe it very well. I got to see the sound check and everything. And if you fripp/crimson fans aren't green enough from that, I even had dinner with Bill Bruford, who was probably the nicest fellow of them all. Anyway, thanks for tolerating my little nostalgia trip... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Mon Dec 09 00:05:05 1996 >From kflint Sun Dec 8 18:57:09 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vWvtx-00066U-00; Sun, 8 Dec 1996 18:57:05 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 21:15:54 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: Ground Control Resent-Message-ID: <"RtJpRC.A.klF.p-3qy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1346 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 18:57:05 -0800 X-UIDL: 5834e63d5f0a746687ef2ff59171e5ff On Sunday 12/8/96 Kim wrote: >He also complained a lot about having too many footpedals, and the fact >that nobody makes a good midi foot controller. He was using a Ground >Control, which he was very dissatisfied with. His problems with that pedal >are similar to my complaints about it. It's midi implementation is >ridiculously limited, having only program change and a couple of cont. >controllers that can't be accessed from the footswitches. Worst is the lack >of a midi in, so you can't dump your programming to disk and reload it. >This made things very complicated since he needed to maintain redundant >gear for touring. Now I've been in communication with Ed Drake who likes this unit and I was preparing to buy one. Does anyone know if Mr. Fripp was using Version 2 of this unit? Also I'd appreciate any one else's experience with this or similar unit's. For now I'll keep my credit card in the wallet. Patrick From ???@??? Sun Dec 08 12:48:19 1996 >From kflint Sun Dec 8 11:21:47 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vWonI-00022f-00; Sun, 8 Dec 1996 11:21:44 -0800 Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 11:18:24 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199612081918.LAA19956@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <961207154533_707788456@emout04.mail.aol.com> Subject: Bon Reminder Resent-Message-ID: <"TWX2DB.A.TuB.FTxqy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1340 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 11:21:44 -0800 X-UIDL: 30cda5af1273ab787cb8e5f9b344e825 PMimlitsch@aol.com writes: >Bon Lazaga will be performing solo (lots of looping goin' on) this Thurs. >night Dec. 12th at the "Down to Earth Coffeehouse" in Mt. Holly, New Jersey. > Start time 8:00pm, cover charge-$5.00. Call (609)265-9135 for >info/directions etc. If anyone tapes this, please contact me directly. From ???@??? Sun Dec 08 18:17:55 1996 >From kflint Sun Dec 8 16:07:49 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vWtG8-0000Hw-00; Sun, 8 Dec 1996 16:07:48 -0800 Message-Id: <199612090316.SAA08886@anc.ak.net> From: "Greg & Sandee West" To: Subject: Acoustic Loopers? Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 15:05:14 -0900 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"hhU0P.A.pJ.Jg1qy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1341 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 16:07:48 -0800 X-UIDL: 12766f6b55be6ed4c77f30eae1d3733b Hi fellow loopers, I really enjoy all the technical experience reflected here and the wide variety of looping done in various musical contexts. Are there any dedicated acoustic guitar loopers out there? I'd like to hear your ideas. I've been experimenting with acoustic looping for some time, but I've only used electric guitars for live looping in my concerts. This last weekend, I took the plunge and showed up for a solo gig with acoustics only. It turned out great, and I'm considering doing it exclusively in the future. My acoustics are wired up with both piezo and magnetic pickups, and I was able to switch from fingerstyle acoustic to Frippish distortion in mid song without the howling feedback I'd anticipated. I like the response of an acoustic and the ability to "dig in" to the strings fingerstyle (you have to be too gentle on an electric). I was always primarily an acoustic fingerstyle player (like Kottke, Hedges, Fahey, etc.) but I have enjoyed the improvisational freedom offered by looping. I'm excited about the success of the marriage of loops and acoustic guitar, not to mention that I haven't had that much fun with an acoustic guitar in months! By the way, if you're new to the list, or new to looping, see my website for a graphic of my live performance setup. Greg West //Six-String Arts/"Recording the Art of the Modern Guitar// Websites: http://users.aol.com/SixStrArts/index.html http://users.aol.com/GregWest01/index.html From ???@??? Sun Dec 08 18:25:20 1996 >From kflint Sun Dec 8 18:23:05 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vWvMy-0003JF-00; Sun, 8 Dec 1996 18:23:00 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 18:18:04 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Echoplex problems -- help Resent-Message-ID: <"pnNvQC.A._1C.vd3qy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1342 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 18:23:00 -0800 X-UIDL: 64f05be1559c29c33ae9a43d40a50e12 At 4:23 PM 12/6/96, Henry I. Bornstein wrote: >I'm having two problems with my echoplexes. Any help would be greatly >appreciated: > >1) If I try to use Brother sync between the two machines, it works for a >while, >but then crashes and one or both machines lock up. I talked to someone >who said >there was a hardware update available that might solve this. Has anyone had >this problem, and does anyone know about this hardware update? I know a little about the hardware updates, yes. I redesigned the brother sync circuit to make it more reliable just before I left G-WIZ/Gibson/Oberheim. The redesign never got implemented in production units by Oberheim. It is possible to mod existing units with the change, but it does take a bit of effort. Its not as simple as just changing a resistor value. You have to hack a couple of transistors in series with the outputs of the BrotherSync jack and add a couple of resistors. With this particular mod, the Echoplex will always power up and stay running regardless of what happens to other units connected with BrotherSync. This fixes problems where sometimes a unit would crash if another BrotherSynced plex was turned off, or where the plex wouldn't power up right when other units on the Brother chain were powered down. These problems almost never showed up with two units, however. It is more common when you have three, four, or more connected. Even if you do experience this particular problem, it's not fatal. Once you have them all on, just turn the one that crashed off and back on and things should be fine. Its irritating, and the mod fixes it. If anyone is interested, I could probably put some documentation about how to do this one on the web site. Another mod that should be in the later production units, was a resistor value change that came courtesy of Chris and Anton Chovit's troubles with BrotherSyncing all their echoplexes together. The original design only allowed three units to work together, but by changing resistor R62 from 2.2K to 10K, you should be able to sync 18 echoplexes or so without any trouble. I'm pretty sure that nobody actually owns that many, so that should be good. I suppose if you really need to BrotherSync even more units at some future echoplex user convention, R62 could be increased even more.... You're particular troubles sound related, but different. Do you have one of the very first set of production units? You can tell by looking at the serial number. I think the first unit was EDP1001, and they went up sequentially from there. I made some value changes in the BrotherSync circuit after the first production run, which means the first 50 units or so probably have the oldest version of the circuit. In this case, the mods corrected problems where plugging and unplugging a cable in the BrotherSync jack while the power was on could cause the unit to crash. It's possible that these changes could have fixed problems similar to yours, but I'm not sure. If you have one of these early units, let me know, and I can tell you what values should be in the BrotherSync circuit. I should put this on the web page anyway. I've never seen BrotherSynced Echoplexes crashing spontaneously after they had powered up successfully. It was always power-up/down or plugging/unplugging which caused it. You are using the right kind of cable, right? A stereo/TRS type? If that's not it, I suspect you have something wrong with one of your units. If you have one of those early units, the first thing I would suggest is changing the various resistors and caps to the right values. Another idea is to get in there with a soldering iron and fix any solder joints that look cracked or cold. (assuming you know how to do minor electronics work. If not, find someone who can help you out.) Something like that in the BrotherSync would definitely cause intermittant crashes. If that doesn't do it, we can try the transistor mod. And if that doesn't do it, we can swap components til it works. I seriously doubt it will take that much effort, though. One thing I don't recommend doing is sending it to Oberheim, since they are a bit short staffed these days. It may be a while before you get it back..... >2) I've been unsuccessful in attempting to archive loops by sending them via >Midi Sample Dump Standard to a MAC computer running Alchemy software. I >am able >to send the sample to the computer successfully, but when I attempt to download >it to the Echoplex, I get an error message that says "insufficient memory." >I"ve got plenty of memory in the computer, and this has happened for the >shortest loops when the echoplex had 120 secs of free memory. From what I can >tell, the Alchemy error message is the one that comes up if the sampler is out >of memory, as I have been able to reproduce the message when I attempt to send >to another sampler that is fully loaded. Has anyone been able to download >from a computer using SDS? It would be great if I could get this to work. SampleDump is another can of worms. The problem here is with the Sample Dump "standard" rather than the echoplex. No one seems to follow it in quite the same way. If Eric is reading this, he can tell you more about whether there is a problem with Alchemy. During development, we found all sorts of different variations among different manufacturers, not to mention some that had bugs. We did our best in the first soft version to work around the ones we found, but we definitely didn't get to everything. The update, which is creeping ever closer to the light of day at glacial speeds, has a much more sophisticated SampleDump implementation which should handle everything (I hope!). I know for a fact that the shipping software works fine with Sound Designer and Studio Vision. Try those if you can't get Alchemy to work. hope this helps. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Dec 08 18:25:22 1996 >From kflint Sun Dec 8 18:23:23 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vWvNI-0003LZ-00; Sun, 8 Dec 1996 18:23:20 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 18:18:08 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Why Vortex flopped...? Resent-Message-ID: <"XL2zLD.A.I3C.5d3qy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1344 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 18:23:20 -0800 X-UIDL: 420c6a754f9b7b9d9741855ba39bceb8 At 9:02 AM 12/7/96, Jon Durant wrote: >In a lot of ways, there were people who made it impossible for the marketing >team to really have any say over what would end up in the box. This is what we >often referred to as "sales prevention". An ugly situation, which as near as I >can tell, continues to worsen since my departure. Sad, really. Some really >great >ideas are simply being throuwn away, and very good people are getting fed >up and >leaving. > >Do I sound bitter? I think I can relate Jon.... G-WIZ had similar problems, of engineering managers thinking they knew everything and ignoring marketing advice. Ignoring engineer's advice too. That has a lot to do with the flaws that are in the Echoplex. It seems to me that there is an exodus happening all over the music industry. There's no one left at G-WIZ. I now work at Chromatic Reseach, firmly in the multimedia arena. I have coworkers there that used to be engineers at places like Emu, Korg, Euphonix, and others. Even Tom Oberheim works there. As pc's integrate more audio and musical instrument capabilities, our expertise becomes increasingly valuable to computer companies. And these companies can offer way better salaries and benefits than the MI industry can. Not to mention extremely competent mangement teams that don't behave in some of the moronic ways people I've encountered in the music industry behave. And the work itself is pretty interesting. I used to think that working in the computer industry would bore me to death, but that's changed a lot over the past few years. I miss working directly with musical instruments, but the things I do now aren't too far behind that. Even more interesting in other ways. I mean, the synth architecture being built into Chromatic's software for pc's running Win95 is as good or better than that in any professional synth. I took a lot of good ideas with me when I left the music industry, which I hope to someday do something with, but not anywhere near as quickly as I might have. I'm sure the same is true for others. We may be in for quite a drought in electronic musical instrument innovations in coming years. Time will tell I guess, but I sure haven't seen many interesting products lately. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Dec 08 18:25:18 1996 >From kflint Sun Dec 8 18:23:02 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vWvMw-0003Is-00; Sun, 8 Dec 1996 18:22:58 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 18:18:11 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Echoplex usability ( was Re: Vortex/Jamman) Resent-Message-ID: <"yk2JqC.A.b2C.0d3qy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1343 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 18:22:58 -0800 X-UIDL: 44f370b1df93bf2f21a34e6a7a86e482 At 7:30 PM 12/6/96, PMimlitsch@aol.com wrote: >O.K. -- I'm convinced.-- Could someone re-post the phone # of the place >that's selling the Vortex unit for $150.00? Also, I'm thinking about adding >another Jamman to my setup but have also been thinking about the Echoplex. > However I'm a little worried that the Echoplex might not be as intuitive to >use as the Jamman. Any thoughts or suggestions? I'm obviously biased on this issue, but here's my thoughts anyway. The Echoplex offers a lot more functionality than the Jamman, so in that regard it might have a somewhat longer learning curve. But it was designed to be intuitive and usable in live performance situations. If anything, the display on the plex is a lot more informative and the footpedal is certainly more useful than those offered for the Jamman. What you see in the Echoplex is the result of 5-6 years of development by people who spent a lot of time trying out all the ideas in real situations and making it as musically useful as possible. And that development was based on previous experiences with delays and loop units going all the way back to tape stuff in the 70's. Find one and spend enough time with it to appreciate some of the subtleties in the interface. The Echoplex does offer a lot of depth, some of which you may never get to. You can do a lot with just the three most basic functions - Record, Overdub, and Multiply. Even if you never get passed those, you can open up a whole new world in your music and have a great time with it. If you see an Echoplex in a music store and ask for a demo, you will almost certainly come away thinking it is confusing and hard to use. Its the same sort of problem that Jon was talking about with the Vortex. Your average music store retard just doesn't get it, and hasn't taken the time to figure it out. A looper is really an instrument unto itself, and doesn't just sit there passively like a reverb or something. You have to interact with it, and it does take some effort to learn to do that well. Its like if I were to try and demonstrate trumpets, being a guitar player. My demo would suck, because I don't know how to play a trumpet! In the hands of competent loopers, jammans and echoplexes both become obviously useful and exciting items. You should check them both out and see what works for you. The echoplex does cost more, so it may be an economic decision. Some other things to consider are that the echoplex uses its own internal power supply, rather than a wall wart, it can have much longer loop times, its memory can be updated with cheap and easily obtainable simms rather than hard to find zip memory, it uses higher quality sampling than the jamman, and it just does more stuff. And if I just reopened the jamman vs echoplex / hardware geek debates, sorry. You knew it had to come up again sooner or later, right? kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Dec 08 18:27:56 1996 >From kflint Sun Dec 8 18:29:06 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vWvSp-0003r5-00; Sun, 8 Dec 1996 18:29:03 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 18:25:09 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Acoustic Loopers? Resent-Message-ID: <"kpelZ.A.peD.Sk3qy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1345 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 18:29:03 -0800 X-UIDL: 700e589a51b8e590a789c8be0807d9cb At 3:05 PM 12/8/96, Greg & Sandee West wrote: >Hi fellow loopers, > >I really enjoy all the technical experience reflected here and the wide >variety of looping done in various musical contexts. Are there any >dedicated acoustic guitar loopers out there? I'd like to hear your ideas. I'm not, but when I've talked to a lot of Echoplex users who were acoustic guitar soloists. Looping seems to be a great fit for that. I know there are a few acoustic loopers on the list, I'm sure they'll speak up. I was actually quite surprised by how many acoustic players got into it. I would say they made up one of the largest categories of echoplex owners. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Mon Dec 09 00:05:10 1996 >From kflint Sun Dec 8 23:06:51 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vWzne-0002C2-00; Sun, 8 Dec 1996 23:06:50 -0800 Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 01:58:06 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199612090658.BAA04040@shell.monmouth.com> X-Sender: andre@monmouth.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: andre Subject: Bon Lozaga...Deep Purple Loops...!!? Resent-Message-ID: <"gcMp_D.A.e5B.ao7qy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1347 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 23:06:50 -0800 X-UIDL: f1557ebb4845f15070a5bbfa5ec8a1be At 11:18 AM 12/8/96 -0800, you wrote: >PMimlitsch@aol.com writes: >>Bon Lazaga will be performing solo (lots of looping goin' on) this Thurs. >>night Dec. 12th at the "Down to Earth Coffeehouse" in Mt. Holly, New Jersey. >> Start time 8:00pm, cover charge-$5.00. Call (609)265-9135 for >>info/directions etc. > >If anyone tapes this, please contact me directly. > > >I saw it last friday evening , and it was a great show. make the drive if ya can - you'll hear some gorgeous tones and thick layered space guitar textures. Very interesting stuff. Also - I saw Deep Purple tonight... with Steve Morse. All in all a good show - they of course did all the classics ( Hush, woman fr Tokyo, Smoke on-, etc) but mid-set Morse had a great 10 min spotlight, which included several minutes of him creating two loops and soaring over them..at one point the drummer Ian Paice came in and play to the loop-groove. It added a nice spontaneity to the gig (which was generally spontaneous and fun, in fact. Morse is simply incredible. And he played the older material faithfully to Blackmore's style. Well, enough about Purple, but it was loop-related.... andre (east) > > From ???@??? Mon Dec 09 09:39:30 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 9 00:57:32 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vX1Wl-0002BP-00; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 00:57:31 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 00:53:58 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Ground Control Resent-Message-ID: <"WDPXWB.A.88B.0Q9qy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1348 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 00:57:31 -0800 X-UIDL: 9edaa99c401b90946457f6bc335bd6b5 At 9:15 PM 12/8/96, Patrick Smith wrote: >On Sunday 12/8/96 Kim wrote: > >>He also complained a lot about having too many footpedals, and the fact >>that nobody makes a good midi foot controller. He was using a Ground >>Control, which he was very dissatisfied with. His problems with that pedal >>are similar to my complaints about it. It's midi implementation is >>ridiculously limited, having only program change and a couple of cont. >>controllers that can't be accessed from the footswitches. Worst is the lack >>of a midi in, so you can't dump your programming to disk and reload it. >>This made things very complicated since he needed to maintain redundant >>gear for touring. > >Now I've been in communication with Ed Drake who likes this unit and I was >preparing to buy one. Does anyone know if Mr. Fripp was using Version 2 of >this unit? Also I'd appreciate any one else's experience with this or >similar unit's. For now I'll keep my credit card in the wallet. > >Patrick I recently bought a Digitech PMC-10 for about $100 used. It has a way better midi implementation. Unfortunately they are out of production, so you have to look at the used market for them. The PMC-10 gives you 500 patches which can be organized any way you like in 100 banks. Each patch lets you set two midi strings, which can be used in different ways. So, for instance you can have string A sent the first time you press a footswitch, and String B the second time. Or you can have the switch operate as a momentary, where string A is sent when you press the switch and string b is sent when you release it. Naturally, you can send any midi messages in the string, including notes, continous controllers, and even sysex. So in addition to changing programs on an effect unit, you can have a footswitch playing chords on a synth, or sending a specific controller number to set a volume on your preamp. Or what ever. Midi out and in, with filtering options on the in. Two continous controller inputs, with the pedal able to control several continuous controllers at once, with independant polarities. Also has a voltage level output for controlling amplifier channel switching and such. The versatility offered is pretty amazing, which is probably why they didn't sell well and went out of production. You can even organize the banks into 5 sets, so you can set the thing up to work differntly for differnt gigs. I'm just starting to figure the thing out, since I haven't had time to dig through the manual, but the more I learn the happier I am with it. My only complaints are that the display should be bigger, and you program it using a handheld unit with a very wimpy cable. The handheld unit itself is pretty rugged, but I've already had to fix the cable once. Another good pedal is the Rocktron All Access. That's based on the Bradshaw switching systems, I think. It's pretty expensive, though. Another thing you should know if you own or are planning to get an Echoplex, is that the Ground Control cannot control an echoplex. At least not with the plexes current software. This is because the plex doesn't use Program Change to control its functions, and that is all the Ground Control sends. (I talked with the President of Digital Music about this, with the idea that maybe we could work out some deal where he adds some more functionality to his pedal and we recommend it as the preferred pedal for our products. That's when I decided the guy was a jerk, because he had that "guitar players are too dumb to understand anything like that, so there's no point in changing" attitude.) There are a few reasons for the Echoplex being that way. One is just adhering to the midi spec. Midi program change messages are intended for changing programs, not executing functions like Start Record. If anything, those should fall under Midi Machine Control, but that didn't really exist when the plex was developed. Another reason is that midi program change is a singular event, carrying only a small amount of information. Many of the echoplex's functions take advantage of both the pressing of the switch and the release, which gives the musician greater control without adding dozens of extra switches. So program change just doesn't work well for that. Therefore, control of the echoplex is done with either note on/offs or continuos controllers, which allow much greater degrees of control and seem more appropriate. That being said, in reality a lot of people use dumb midi pedals like the Ground Control. It frankly baffles me that this pedal enjoys such a good reputation, but then it wouldn't be the first time I had trouble understanding why people accept mediocrity just because it's well marketed. Anyway, in developing the not quite available yet upgrade, we caved in and figured out ways to make midi program change messages control Echoplex functions. It doesn't work nearly as well as note-on/offs, but at least all the people with Ground Controls will be able to use them. I guess I should right some sort of "pedals and the echoplex" tutorial. Maybe I'll get to that next weekend.... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Dec 10 09:56:07 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 9 11:39:47 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vXBYC-0006ov-00; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 11:39:40 -0800 Message-ID: <32AC09BC.4052@interaccess.com> Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 12:44:48 +0000 From: James Coker X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Ground Control References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fpjcAC.A.HFG.ZoGry"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1359 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 11:39:40 -0800 X-UIDL: 3b4d029841d9097f498319542d6a5bb8 BTW: thanks for the fripp story, he always has an interesting collection of gear. I don't know if he uses an echoplex, but I do know theres an Eventide box (probably 4000 by now), a GSP2101 (likes the "crunchy tubes" i hear), a SansAmp, the TC delays, a GR1 and recently a VG8. I've had pretty good luck controlling the echoplex w/ my GSP2101 foot controller (now called Control One). I've set two buttons to send MIDI CC messages (one at 0, the other at 64) to control overdub and multiply. One click sets one of the echopex buttons on, then a second click turns them off. Fortunately, the "hold" functionality of these two buttons is very close to their normal behavior when pushed from the front panel. I was also able to set up the record button, but the 2101fc buttons didn't respond as well as the sustain pedal I use for that. jim From ???@??? Mon Dec 09 09:39:59 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 9 05:55:53 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vX6BU-0001QY-00; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 05:55:52 -0800 Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 08:52:52 -0500 From: "S. Patrick Hickey" Message-Id: <199612091352.IAA01794@nielsenmedia.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Fripp and the Plex Resent-Message-ID: <"DuueeC.A.8MB.BoBry"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1349 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 05:55:52 -0800 X-UIDL: 8b21d4919e87cd4a7926c71ffa7caa73 Kim, So, you met Crimso. How nice for you. (Seething, loathing, envious, hating, jealousy abounds!!! :) :) :) Pat Hickey ***SPH brzrkr@nielsenmedia.com From ???@??? Mon Dec 09 09:40:00 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 9 05:58:13 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vX6Dj-0001dr-00; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 05:58:11 -0800 Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 14:56:12 +0100 (MET) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Vortex problems... Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"YkEAUD.A.pYB.KqBry"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1350 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 05:58:11 -0800 X-UIDL: 641c8de4548e3ba6cfb12fbcada18532 Thanks for the explanations. Maybe i'll have to unscrew the unit... I could have a spare pot of the machine, only i'm not so easy with it. I don't dare too much taking the solder into it to replace the pot. I know that if I have statics on the bench, I may kill my unit, and i don't know how to remove statics when running the solder thing. I don't even know if yoy can access the thing. And yes, I step on the idea of having th emchine for 150$ (in fact with shipping it was 234$) wich is anyway less than the equivalent of 550 bucks of the unit here (would you believe it!). That is the deal: half the price, half the presets.... Olivier From ???@??? Mon Dec 09 09:40:01 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 9 05:59:39 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vX6F8-0001l1-00; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 05:59:38 -0800 Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 08:56:20 -0500 From: "S. Patrick Hickey" Message-Id: <199612091356.IAA01965@nielsenmedia.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Bon Lozaga...Deep Purple Loops...!!? Resent-Message-ID: <"SexDO.A.5cB.5qBry"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1351 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 05:59:38 -0800 X-UIDL: c3bdd962ec9e97553e4565ab50a0dfba Morse...with Deep Purple???!?!??! Talk about a fish out of water! From ???@??? Mon Dec 09 09:40:03 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 9 06:45:50 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vX6xp-0004sx-00; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 06:45:49 -0800 Date: Mon, 9 Dec 96 09:44:35 EST From: angel@matisse.pet.upenn.edu (Emmanuel Angel) Message-Id: <9612091444.AA29194@matisse.pet.upenn.edu.noname> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: PCM 80: to morph or not to morph Resent-Message-ID: <"mkJSuC.A.GfE.QXCry"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1352 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 06:45:49 -0800 X-UIDL: c9bdd9bcfb9c14e9132f3eb2d2c19133 I'm curious about Jon's comment: >The new MPX-1 is a Lexichip/2110 combi platter, better suited to >Vortex-like oddness. But don't expect anyone to be doing them soon. Bring up the >naughty M-word, and you're likely to be run out of town. Why should the M-word not be brought up? I'm very interested in this unit. They had one already in a rack at Sam Ash, Cherry Hill NJ, but I didn't get a chance to hear it. I did look through the manual however, and the specs and the *numerous* algorithms (including, I seem to recall, something that looked like Cycloid [??]) seemed very impressive. It looks to be a *lengthy* and *well written* manual, from what I could glean by flipping through it for a few minutes. They were having a store-wide sale on Saturday, and I thought about picking one up for $950, but opted for a more-needed DAT. But my instincts tell me that this is a *very* nice box for the home studio owner who wants to get great Lex reverbs and other effects. I like the reverbs in the LXP-15 and, at least on paper, this unit blows it away (18-bit A/D, 24 bit [??] internal path, 20-bit D/A, and 44.1 kHz sample rate). Also, the interface looks well designed, straightforward. I'm guessing that I will add this box to my wish list. Mickey Angel From ???@??? Mon Dec 09 09:40:04 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 9 06:59:28 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vX7B0-0005oU-00; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 06:59:26 -0800 Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 08:57:46 -0600 (CST) From: Dave Stagner To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Why Vortex flopped...? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Da3eVC.A.GVF.zjCry"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1353 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 06:59:26 -0800 X-UIDL: e9b5a08de9dd33dfe2f08a4f58724f3a Remember the Dilbert Principle... the most glaringly stupid employees are put in the place where they can do the least harm - management. How true this is, I do not know. After all, we don't have a good reference to how much damage the morons would do if they stayed in engineering or sales. And of course, it's management that appoints them to management. By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.net */ -Charles Fort From ???@??? Mon Dec 09 09:40:05 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 9 07:31:36 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vX7g6-0000NF-00; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 07:31:34 -0800 Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 10:26:20 -0500 From: RA336@aol.com Message-ID: <961209102619_708035398@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Acoustic Loopers? Resent-Message-ID: <"DInw7B.A.KTH.i_Cry"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1354 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 07:31:34 -0800 X-UIDL: e7be8fcde8e145f788b0bd862b4b3768 for you acoustic plug-in people, check out the elctro-acoustic instruments designed and built by Ithaca Stringed Instruments.. hands-down the best!... absolutely amazing stuff for delivering acoustic sounds through ampage or foldback... and incredible to use with electronics!!! they make: guitars basses violins (4, 5, & 6 string) cellos violas also: mandolins mandocellos - and will make weird one-off playable objects for people with their own ideas... I have an "Oneida" nylon-string guitar and a steel-string, which I just had out on tour for the first time... flawless! contact them for info at: 1-607-387-3544 (phone & fax) or mail to: ISI 6115 Mount Road Trumansburg, NY 14886 - they have a real nice catalogue; ask to see 'em all! tell them Rob sent ya... From ???@??? Mon Dec 09 09:40:06 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 9 07:34:21 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vX7il-0000ct-00; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 07:34:19 -0800 Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 10:28:31 -0500 From: RA336@aol.com Message-ID: <961209102831_907094218@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Acoustic Loopers? Resent-Message-ID: <"qw50WC.A.eK.fBDry"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1355 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 07:34:20 -0800 X-UIDL: 62f10ccd46a7b96d256bb209572eba24 oops; in mentioning the Ithaca Stringed Instruments stuff, I should have mentioned I am a devout looper of the guitar... From ???@??? Mon Dec 09 09:40:07 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 9 07:35:03 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vX7jQ-0000gR-00; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 07:35:00 -0800 Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 10:31:53 -0500 From: RA336@aol.com Message-ID: <961209103152_1719116368@emout02.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Ground Control Resent-Message-ID: <"UzUtcC.A.Xe.uEDry"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1356 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 07:35:00 -0800 X-UIDL: cc5da6875c9a393b4aa8d1d0988013cd >Also I'd appreciate any one else's experience with this or >similar unit's. -check out the Lake-Butler Midi Midigator... highly functional, any message, any midi channel simultaneously... one (only) controller port... memory is downloadable and uploadable via sys-ex.. nice... fairly cheap too. From ???@??? Mon Dec 09 09:40:18 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 9 08:47:50 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vX8rr-0006lN-00; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 08:47:47 -0800 X-Sender: ejmd@pop.erols.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 11:45:40 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: ejmd@erols.com (Ed Drake) Subject: Re: Ground Control Resent-Message-ID: <"KWy_aD.A.WFG.1HEry"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1358 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 08:47:47 -0800 X-UIDL: b0b0cdd1fef2bec7197582a40f14ce25 Kim said: >Another thing you should know if you own or are planning to get an >Echoplex, is that the Ground Control cannot control an echoplex. At least >not with the plexes current software. This is because the plex doesn't use >Program Change to control its functions, and that is all the Ground Control >sends. (I talked with the President of Digital Music about this, with the >idea that maybe we could work out some deal where he adds some more >functionality to his pedal and we recommend it as the preferred pedal for >our products. That's when I decided the guy was a jerk, because he had that >"guitar players are too dumb to understand anything like that, so there's >no point in changing" attitude.) Kim , you may be right about the Pres. of Digital Music being a jerk, I don't know, I've never spoken to him, but he may have listened to you and Fripp just a little bit because with the version 2 software the Ground Control can be set up to send Control change on/off messages as well as the program change and continuous controller messages. There is a mode which allows you to set up your banks of 10 in a configuration where footswitches 1-4 are presets (Program changes) and Switches 5-0 are control change messages. Whether this will allow people to use The Plex with the GC now , I don't know. What do you think? There is another pedal called the Ground Link ( List $160) which can be linked with the GC and it can be configured to have all 8 of its' footswitches be used as Control Changes . >There are a few reasons for the Echoplex being that way. One is just >adhering to the midi spec. Midi program change messages are intended for >changing programs, not executing functions like Start Record. I don't understand a lot of the technical business of MIDI but I wonder how Lexicon got the Jam Man to use Program Change messages to control Recording , Layering, Cueing Loops, etc. >That being said, in reality a lot of people use dumb midi pedals like the >Ground Control. I hope that doesn't mean you think the people that use the Ground Control are dumb ;-) Seriously, I got a GC recently because I needed more MIDI control than I had with an old ADA MC-1 ( which is for sale, email and make me an offer). Sure the GC is not perfect but it sounds like there is no perfect MIDI foot controller out there at the moment anyway, that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. The only things in my price range were the Ground Control , MIDI Midigator, and the ART Ultrafoot X-15 . I have friends that have the ART and the Midigator and I was not impressed by either of those ( The Midigator and Rocktron All Access being too expensive anyway). I paid $220 for the GC which suits my budget as a married musician with a wife, child and a house. True the GC doesn't have a MIDI in and it sounds like it doesn't have anywhere near the MIDI control the Digitech PMC-10 has, it has enough for what I need and if I need more in the future I'll just sell it and get something else, isn't this what musicians do all the time anyway? Kim, it sounds like the Digitech isn't perfect in your mind either so why don't you design a MIDI controller with everything we'd need ? :-) Also, I think it would be a great idea for you to put a tutorial together on footpedals and the Plex. Keep up the good work , Ed From ???@??? Mon Dec 09 09:40:11 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 9 08:15:34 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vX8Md-00042O-00; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 08:15:31 -0800 Date: Mon, 9 Dec 96 10:48:15 EST From: c62op27@ibx.com (Victor Fiorillo) Message-Id: <9612091548.AA07663@ibx.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: OFF SUBJECT - Pink Floyd Resent-Message-ID: <"R7Yi7.A.1mD.aqDry"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1357 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 08:15:31 -0800 X-UIDL: 848ff253ad465947ee5422882b5a3e46 Hello all. Although Floyd did some looping in the early years, I will still consider this off-topic. I am looking for a Floydian Internet mailing list, but I have mail only access so I cannot search the web. Does anyone know of a list? Thank you. From ???@??? Tue Dec 10 09:57:05 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 9 17:42:09 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vXHCw-00034M-00; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 17:42:06 -0800 Message-ID: <32AC4C1F.4CB7@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 17:28:11 +0000 From: Anton Chovit Reply-To: antonc@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Echoplex problems -- help References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"G2oyFB.A.7qC.59Lry"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1361 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 17:42:06 -0800 X-UIDL: 4d8864f2fcff7e6327548e4acfeb0093 Kim Flint wrote: >... Kim wrote, > You're particular troubles sound related, but different. Do you have one of > the very first set of production units? ... My brother Chris and I have 5 plex's between us. We had oh soo many problems, but we sent them back to Oberheim and months and months later they came back (hooray!!) working much better. We still have glitches when running brother sync for all five, but these seem to be of the power up/down type. We still have lots of irregularity when syncing w/ MIDI and brother sync. I've can sample a CD loop into plex1 (sync=IN). This loop will stay insync w/ the MIDI for a short period of time (5-15 min), although the loop and orig. signal will flange somewhat (slightly out of phase, but no short-term drift) . With Plex's 2-5 set to sync=OUT, #'s 2-5 can be looped synced w/1. Now this is where the fun starts! plex2 will stay in sync w/ MIDI and plex1 about as well as plex 1. If a loop is thrown to plex3, plex 2 & 3 will stay in sync but they will drift from plex 1(MIDI) OR 1 & 2 will sync but 3 will drift. Adding plex's 3-5 just adds more randomness or not (Yous takes your chances). This can be interesting but does not allow for the 5 plex's tight synced w/ MIDI that we were hoping for. A work around for this that is OK for some purposes is to dedicate one plex to MIDI seqs (196 sec or less). Sample the MIDI (drums patterns, progressions, etc.) into plex1 (sync = IN). Switch sync = OUT and now play loops into the rest of the plex's (sync = OUT) and shut the sequencer off. This untilizes brother sync for all units and this seems to work fine. I have also noticed that when syncing to MIDI (sync= IN), if start the MIDI (drum machine, seq, etc.) then hit record, the plex goes to 000 and waits for the MIDI "one beat" (as it should). However, if I delete this loop or try sereral takes, eventually, the plex looses the "one beat" and jsuts starts recording as soon as I hit record. The only way to get things working is to shut off/on the plex, stop the MIDI and start over. I have also been unable to get Roland or Boss MIDI gear to get the plex to start on the "one beat" (Roland PMA-5, Dr 550) these units send MIDI clock as evident by the flashing green light on the plex, but when you hit record, it starts on the very next beat, not the "one", similar to the way JamMans tap into sync w/ MIDI. I've seen postings indicating that the echoplex can be synced to MIDI with little-to-no drift (sometimes a little is way too much!!), but I have never acomplished this for more than a short period. We are really interested in having the ability to use MIDI as the master clock, but the drift jst doesn't allow this. Does anyone have any suggestions? or success stories? From ???@??? Tue Dec 10 09:56:59 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 9 17:24:07 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vXGvN-000170-00; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 17:23:57 -0800 Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 20:17:19 -0500 From: PMimlitsch@aol.com Message-ID: <961209201718_1488164360@emout02.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Ground Control Resent-Message-ID: <"Pz78a.A.7g.mpLry"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1360 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 17:23:57 -0800 X-UIDL: af50088c0706091790994a0f17418099 In a message dated 12/9/96 2:48:20 PM, Jim wrote: <> I also use the 2101 w/ foot controller to control not an echoplex (which I'm still up in the air about getting) but to control some of the functions of the Jamman. However the one thing it doesn't initiate well is the tap (record) function. There is a noticeable delay between the actual foot tap and the response of the Jamman that does not occur w/the stock Jamman footswitch. This, obviously, is unexceptable when your trying to initiate recording mid-stream of particular rythmic cycle. So for this I still use the stock footswitch to capture the initial loop length and then the 2101fc for any layering,fading,mute/restarts etc. ----Paul From ???@??? Tue Dec 10 09:57:07 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 9 18:03:17 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vXHXK-0005IY-00; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 18:03:10 -0800 Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 17:59:02 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Syncing to MIDI Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"0fFQxD.A.muE.IRMry"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1362 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 18:03:10 -0800 X-UIDL: a2945ebebb9e46796925b1419b328b96 On Mon, 9 Dec 1996, Anton Chovit wrote: > I have also noticed that when syncing to MIDI (sync= IN), if start the > MIDI (drum machine, seq, etc.) then hit record, the plex goes to 000 and > waits for the MIDI "one beat" (as it should). However, if I delete this > loop or try sereral takes, eventually, the plex looses the "one beat" > and jsuts starts recording as soon as I hit record. The only way to get > things working is to shut off/on the plex, stop the MIDI and start > over. Yeah, I've run into this problem many times as well. It's kind of a drag to have to power down, power back up, then start from scratch every time you want to sync a new loop. Perhaps this is yet another element corrected in the upgrade? --Andre From ???@??? Tue Dec 10 09:57:15 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 9 20:26:34 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vXJm1-0004xF-00; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 20:26:29 -0800 Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 23:23:48 -0500 (EST) From: JOHNPOLLOCK@delphi.com Subject: Re: Echoplex usability ( was Re: Vortex/ To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Message-id: <01ICTO486PPU972WC7@delphi.com> X-VMS-To: INTERNET"Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Resent-Message-ID: <"ZdpspD.A.aaE.cXOry"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1363 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 20:26:29 -0800 X-UIDL: 24f2b8375bc2dfd749f8fe3c76b7bbe0 Kim wrote, >And if I just reopened the jamman vs echoplex / hardware geek debates, >sorry. You knew it had to come up again sooner or later, right? To the benefit of everyone! I'm very interested in both, can't afford either, and want to know all I can about both units. John Email: johnpollock@delphi.com Troubador Tech on the Web--http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock/ From ???@??? Tue Dec 10 09:57:17 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 9 20:26:46 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vXJmD-0004yb-00; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 20:26:41 -0800 Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 23:24:18 -0500 (EST) From: JOHNPOLLOCK@delphi.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: Vortex Applications Notes To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Message-id: <01ICTO4S0PNY972WC7@delphi.com> X-VMS-To: INTERNET"Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Resent-Message-ID: <"MY4nwB.A.ZeE.CYOry"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1364 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 20:26:41 -0800 X-UIDL: 85538b9bf18397e8e457351bc4695356 I wrote, in part, >>selfsame pump sank like a stone as I read, down at the very bottom, >>those dread words: "A Harman International Company." To which Matthias responded, >As fusions go on, soon you will read "Made by Mankind Inc." and after the >first error (which you will certainly discover after 5 minutes, in the >future) you are forced to buy only from other planets... Very likely, and a possibility I've considered--especially given the trend toward decreasing corporate/government liability, at least in the USA. :-( There's a happier possibility, though: Looking at trends in CAD, CAM, the growth of the Internet, etc., I can imagine in the not too distant future a Kim Flint, Jon Durant or Matthias Grob being able to design, manufacture, and sell a musical device working largely alone, using off-the-shelf multipurpose chips, software, and even PCBs, and marketing on the Web. Another possibility: How long will it be before this Pentium 133 I'm using (which came with *two* MIDI sequencer programs and WAV audio software) shrinks to palmtop size, for a third of the price--and I can design my own looper, morphing FX, etc.? John Email: johnpollock@delphi.com Troubador Tech on the Web--http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock/ From ???@??? Tue Dec 10 09:57:28 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 9 21:40:42 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vXKvm-0003bL-00; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 21:40:38 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 03:23:00 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: PCM 80: to morph or not to morph Resent-Message-ID: <"1WU38D.A.iLD.ldPry"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1365 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 21:40:39 -0800 X-UIDL: 57c481e2a01d7101952ddb21e1eb18a1 Jon ... >The PCM 80 is designed very differently, and for a number of reasons, I'm not >convinced it would work the same way. That doesn't mean it wouldn't be >cool, but >it would be different. And, besides, as I mentioned earlier, no one's going to >go there. I see. Thanks for information. More so I want the "last m... unit" of this part of the universe :-) Matthias From ???@??? Tue Dec 10 09:57:30 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 9 21:40:57 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vXKw1-0003dA-00; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 21:40:53 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 03:24:26 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Fripp and the Plex Resent-Message-ID: <"Y0CVsB.A.ZND.0dPry"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1366 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 21:40:53 -0800 X-UIDL: ae8a896932be134ac6053defbfbd6373 Andre said >As far as going beyond Fripp, what are you thinking of more >specifically? As Michael Peters has mentioned, some of the stuff he's >doing recently is very very difficult to identify as real-time loop >music, even though that's what it is. I must admit that I do not know what he did after the soundscape CD. All I heard so far was very slow build ups and fades. Old technology did not permit much more. But Feedback was always available on pedal and lets build music much more dynamic that he does. Plex functions another somewhat... Well, I cannot say that using a feedback pedal is going beyond Fripp, but you may know what I mean... Matthias From ???@??? Tue Dec 10 09:57:34 1996 >From kflint Tue Dec 10 00:07:41 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vXNE3-0007KZ-00; Tue, 10 Dec 1996 00:07:39 -0800 Message-Id: <199612101114.CAA09146@anc.ak.net> From: "Greg & Sandee West" To: Subject: Re: Acoustic Loopers? Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 22:59:01 -0900 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"XqDnMD.A.2tG.YnRry"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1367 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 00:07:39 -0800 X-UIDL: ec90187c3e93f674f308c458454787be Thanks for the info. I'll check out the Ithaca stuff. I've never used a Vortex before...haven't seen one in any of the stores up here in Alaska. Sounds intriguing. Cheers, Greg From ???@??? Tue Dec 10 09:57:35 1996 >From kflint Tue Dec 10 02:31:58 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vXPTh-00026f-00; Tue, 10 Dec 1996 02:31:57 -0800 Message-Id: <17680.199612101029@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 10:29:15 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr ) Subject: Re: OFF SUBJECT - Pink Floyd Resent-Message-ID: <"ylxeqB.A.u0B.IuTry"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1368 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 02:31:57 -0800 X-UIDL: c13663e2f193b9d5aa209271ac113eeb >Hello all. Although Floyd did some looping in the early years, I will still >consider this off-topic. I am looking for a Floydian Internet mailing list, >but >I have mail only access so I cannot search the web. Does anyone know of a >list? > >Thank you. Echoes-request@tcsi.com Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Everything in moderation, including moderation" (Zen Proverb) From ???@??? Tue Dec 10 09:58:23 1996 >From kflint Tue Dec 10 08:33:30 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vXV7X-00065A-00; Tue, 10 Dec 1996 08:33:27 -0800 Message-Id: <4374.199612101630@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 16:30:40 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr ) Subject: Re: BIO-ELECTRONIC ? Resent-Message-ID: <"WQv7dD.A._cF.jAZry"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1369 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 08:33:27 -0800 X-UIDL: 0e7ae9d7fa8441b287a622b3a4b13484 >Well, your nickname Dr called my atention, and I not just like >englishmen, usually, I'm Welsh, but that's a different story! > but especially those sincere ones and the name PYCRAFT >sounds like someone really special It's my mother's maiden name, and does seem quite rare. >and the Zen Proverb is a extremely interesting one... ... and used as a good excuse for Zen masters to get drunk occasionally, apparently. >but, I'm afraid, what really makes me risk to rob some >of your time is: BIO-ELECTRONIC - What the hell... ?? >I imagine you implant RS 232 into rats to monitor them... or make chips >cross their legs and then procreate... "Lift your leg, Ratty." "Come on, Ratty, lift your leg!" "Ok, if that's the way you want it..." ZAP!! "Good boy, Ratty!" Naaah, I spend my day using electric fields to manipulate viruses on microelectrode arrays. It can be a great conversation killer, especially when people find out that the main virus I use is Herpes. Yes, I spend all day looking at Herpes move down a microscope. There's a bit more about it on my web page (http://www.elec.gla.ac.uk/~pycraft/) >If anyone thinks this is off topic: shht, he is Dr., lets see whether we >can finally find the resonance centre in the brain, you know, the >twistplace, the ANSWER to the loop... If we knew the answer to the loop there would be no point asking the question anymore, and that would be a shame. Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Everything in moderation, including moderation" (Zen Proverb) From ???@??? Tue Dec 10 10:14:48 1996 >From kflint Tue Dec 10 10:10:45 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vXWdX-00079N-00; Tue, 10 Dec 1996 10:10:35 -0800 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199612101807.KAA08452@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: Re[2]: Vortex Applications Notes To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 10:07:07 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <01ICTO4S0PNY972WC7@delphi.com> from "JOHNPOLLOCK@delphi.com" at Dec 9, 96 11:24:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zbWVrB.A.waG.dbary"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1370 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 10:10:35 -0800 X-UIDL: d9099762be6a90afd190a1a7539b02ff > Another possibility: How long will it be before this Pentium 133 I'm > using (which came with *two* MIDI sequencer programs and WAV audio > software) shrinks to palmtop size, for a third of the price--and I can > design my own looper, morphing FX, etc.? > > John Email: johnpollock@delphi.com > Troubador Tech on the Web--http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock/ With today's technology, Pat Metheny is already using his laptop (one of the Power Macs) as a digital 8-track recorder for demos with, I think, an Opcode Studio Vision/Quicktime instruments software setup. I hope Opcode will produce a next-generation Max that is as powerful as the Silicon Graphics version which has better support for real-time DSP objects, etc. Paolo Valladolid ----------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ----------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Tue Dec 10 23:28:04 1996 >From kflint Tue Dec 10 10:23:23 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vXWpl-0000ch-00; Tue, 10 Dec 1996 10:23:13 -0800 Date: Tue, 10 Dec 96 12:13:43 CST From: "Todd Madson" Message-Id: <9611108502.AA850248788@ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, ToddM@lasermaster.com Subject: Re[2]: Echoplex system version? Resent-Message-ID: <"bjQzxD.A.zM.xmary"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1371 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 10:23:13 -0800 X-UIDL: 7e429f6fcba692633faba09ca9c3f855 Travis: Where did you buy your plex? Todd Madson. _______________________________________________________________________________ Subject: Re: Echoplex system version? From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com at Internet Date: 12/6/96 4:24 PM >Message was resent -- Original recipients were: To: "Looper's Delight" ------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------- >what is the going price of the echoplex these days? > >paul I just ordered one this week, and $549 for the 12.5 second configuration was the standard. The footpedal runs about $100. Travis Hartnett Received: from spica.LaserMaster.Com by ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com (SMTPLINK V2.10.08) ; Fri, 06 Dec 96 16:23:51 CST Return-Path: Received: from ferret.slip.net (ferret.slip.net [204.160.88.6]) by spica.LaserMaster.Com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA17261 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 16:33:47 -0600 (CST) Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vW8jJ-0007NY-00; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 14:26:49 -0800 Message-Id: <199612062225.OAA21306@scv1.apple.com> Subject: Re: Echoplex system version? Date: Sat, 7 Dec 96 04:25:47 -0000 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"OEuD0D.A.SyG.C1Jqy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1313 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: ToddM@lasermaster.com Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 14:26:49 -0800 From ???@??? Tue Dec 10 23:51:32 1996 >From kflint Tue Dec 10 23:38:03 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vXjEw-0002cv-00; Tue, 10 Dec 1996 23:38:02 -0800 Message-ID: <32ADF450.220B@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 23:37:52 +0000 From: Anton Chovit Reply-To: antonc@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: FS: stick References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"H0yr3C.A.WYC.bSmry"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1375 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 23:38:02 -0800 X-UIDL: 6adbe68b9525fb1f0e7c951904c65b90 Hey Dan, I still don't want to buy your stick. Sorry! From ???@??? Wed Dec 11 00:30:46 1996 >From kflint Wed Dec 11 00:13:18 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vXjn2-0004pL-00; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 00:13:16 -0800 Message-ID: <32ADFC9C.2D03@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 00:13:21 +0000 From: Anton Chovit Reply-To: antonc@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Vortex features? References: Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"z9ZntB.A.HcE.izmry"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1376 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 00:13:16 -0800 X-UIDL: bdd576c224fe61ffa738a9c1d924b5cd Hey there mate! As one who just purchased a vortex, I will try to describe my first impressions. To preface, I must say that I demoed one of these a year or so ago and was totally unimpressed. I couldn't get it to sound good for anything at the music store with someone else's setup (and a guitar I didn't like). This summer my brother bought a unit and has been doing some really incredible things with it. So I finaly broke down and got one. FIRST IMPRESSIONS OF A VORTEX ðIt is weird. ðNot like other effects. ðThe presets suck without tweeking (especially the MIX parameter) and proper stereo set-up. ðThe interface is actually simple and somewhat intuitive: Since I am used to completely unintuitive, awkward interfaces like an R8M or a DX7 it took me a while to realize this. ðWith tweeking, it is capable of some of the coolest sounds are I have ever created. ðCan sound like a complete pedal effect layout gone quite crazy. Way more interesting than the typical DDL/reverb/multi effects I've used. ðThen I tried morphing; Whoa!! I've never done that before! ðNext I plugged-in an expression pedal and things got really twisted. ðBetween morphing and the real time expresion pedal control, I know of no equal effect unit. (I've used an ART SGX2000 with the x-15 MIDI controller w/expression control, etc., but that is apples to oranges) ðSounds like an orchestral mix between simultaneous envelope filters, delays, and modulating flange & chourus effects. ðAllows me to play the effect as much as/(and as if it were) the instrument(s) ðThis is going to take a long time to figure out. ðThis is going to be fun to use for a long time! ðBottom Line #1:For $150 what do you want? THIS THING ROCKS!!!!! ðBottom Line #2:I want another one. From ???@??? Tue Dec 10 23:28:52 1996 >From kflint Tue Dec 10 17:39:51 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vXdeI-0001aN-00; Tue, 10 Dec 1996 17:39:50 -0800 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 20:41:48 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: Bon Reminder Resent-Message-ID: <"VPRCL.A._SB.8Ahry"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1372 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 17:39:50 -0800 X-UIDL: 7d22b9622184e79d641c352329e84984 >PMimlitsch@aol.com writes: >>Bon Lazaga will be performing solo (lots of looping goin' on) this Thurs. >>night Dec. 12th at the "Down to Earth Coffeehouse" in Mt. Holly, New Jersey. >> Start time 8:00pm, cover charge-$5.00. Call (609)265-9135 for >>info/directions etc. > >If anyone tapes this, please contact me directly. Accidents will Happen will be performing in Newark Delaware this saturday at Jam'n Java ... a three piece improvisational group From ???@??? Tue Dec 10 23:29:17 1996 >From kflint Tue Dec 10 20:33:51 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vXgMg-00069f-00; Tue, 10 Dec 1996 20:33:50 -0800 From: DAVID_MITCHELL@HP-Australia-om1.om.hp.com X-Openmail-Hops: 1 Date: Wed, 11 Dec 96 15:35:41 +1100 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4374.199612101630@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Subject: Vortex features? Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="Vortex" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6HItID.A.BoF.0kjry"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1373 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 20:33:50 -0800 X-UIDL: 463223f9f8a906ce6897ac004b7103a4 G'day everyone, As a new arrival to the list, I've been waiting for someone to list the Vortex features, but it hasn't happened over the last few weeks... It sounds like what I want, the price is certainly right at the moment and Xmas is coming up; could someone please list out the features and/or any user experiences? If this is in a FAQ or on a web site somewhere, just point me to the place. Thanks in advance Dave Mitchell From ???@??? Tue Dec 10 23:29:25 1996 >From kflint Tue Dec 10 23:27:39 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vXj4s-0001sA-00; Tue, 10 Dec 1996 23:27:38 -0800 Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 00:24:55 -0700 (MST) From: Dan Howarth To: stickwire-l@netcom.com cc: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: FS: stick Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"2B5piD.A.0pB.bImry"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1374 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 23:27:38 -0800 X-UIDL: df7ed6c3c624d7ba498f06d71220b709 hi folks, i'm selling my stick. (still trying, i guess i should say... i've had no replies yet). please contact me (not the list) if you're interested. **************************************************************** ** Dan Howarth, History/Music, University of Arizona, Tucson ** ** http://www.u.arizona.edu/~howarth (under construction) ** **************************************************************** From ???@??? Wed Dec 11 00:30:48 1996 >From kflint Wed Dec 11 00:19:58 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vXjtU-0005Is-00; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 00:19:56 -0800 Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 03:18:54 -0500 (EST) From: JOHNPOLLOCK@delphi.com Subject: Re: Vortex features? To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Message-id: <01ICVAM05PRI95SNFD@delphi.com> X-VMS-To: INTERNET"Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Resent-Message-ID: <"uFKqQD.A.T5E.x5mry"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1377 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 00:19:56 -0800 X-UIDL: 01a384b26dde4ec5fcc0e096bbee9f67 Dave Mitchell wrote, >As a new arrival to the list, I've been waiting for someone to list the >Vortex features, but it hasn't happened over the last few weeks... Dave, here's the condensed version: The Lexicon Vortex is a stereo-capable signal processor which includes a pair of delays, a pair of modulators, and an envelope follower, which can be configured in a variety of ways. It stores 16 pairs of factory patches and 16 user-programmable patch pairs. What makes it totally different from most other processors is its capacity to "morph" between the two patches in each pair, either with an expression pedal or by programming a morph duration (which can be up to ten seconds) and using a footswitch. Some seriously twisted things can happen during the morph, and the envelope follower can make things even stranger. The two delays can be cascaded for a total maximum delay time of 1.846 seconds; tempo can be tapped in with a footswitch; and it can be configured as a looping sampler. It can also be used more conventionally, with flanger, chorus, tremolo, and rotary speaker effects combined with delays in various ways. Since I've had mine for only a short time, I'm certainly no authority. You can read the same user reports that seduced me into buying mine at http://www.annihilist.com/loop/archive/filtered/Vortex.html along with some cautionary tales from Vortex purchasers outside the USA. John Email: johnpollock@delphi.com Troubador Tech on the Web--http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock/ From ???@??? Wed Dec 11 10:17:09 1996 >From kflint Wed Dec 11 04:42:02 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vXnz7-0002xl-00; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 04:42:01 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 12:31:02 +0000 Message-ID: <2AEAB980.1424@mail.bl.uk> From: David.Orton@mail.bl.uk (David Orton) Subject: Digitech Whammy pedal To: Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"1FzawD.A.BrC.Cvqry"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1378 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 04:42:01 -0800 X-UIDL: 4d7361291a41e10d4d8c60e629d4e452 Calling all loopers Does anyone out there have an experience good or bad with the Whammy Pedal? It appears to be something I could use, but just a shade expensive in the UK. I'm mainly concerned with sound quality. Do its harmonisations `warble' (as my Zoom pedal already does!) or is it (relatively) stable? Cheers David From ???@??? Wed Dec 11 10:17:11 1996 >From kflint Wed Dec 11 05:24:07 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vXodq-0005bD-00; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 05:24:06 -0800 Message-Id: <8467.199612111323@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 13:23:24 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr ) Subject: Re: Vortex features? Resent-Message-ID: <"iGHOkB.A.2KF.zWrry"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1379 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 05:24:06 -0800 X-UIDL: 2d343f636d1d02fbece28be418cc6805 I've asked this before. About 3 times. Please, _someone_ answer! How do you change patches on the Vortex if it doesn't have MIDI? If it's supposedly a performance-based processor how do you change patches during performance? Is it just by up/down pedals, or what??? Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Everything in moderation, including moderation" (Zen Proverb) From ???@??? Wed Dec 11 10:17:25 1996 >From kflint Wed Dec 11 07:46:09 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vXqrF-0006tY-00; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 07:46:05 -0800 Date: Wed, 11 Dec 96 09:39:37 CST From: "Todd Madson" Message-Id: <9611118503.AA850325900@ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, ToddM@lasermaster.com Subject: Re[2]: Vortex features? Resent-Message-ID: <"pL6J6B.A.yUG.Cbtry"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1380 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 07:46:05 -0800 X-UIDL: 854c456cae9460bd979c4015aa6788bb Hey: > I've asked this before. About 3 times. Please, _someone_ answer! Really? I don't remember. Sorry. > How do you change patches on the Vortex if it doesn't have MIDI? If it's > supposedly a performance-based processor how do you change patches during > performance? Is it just by up/down pedals, or what??? The unit has jacks for momentary footswitches. One footswitch comes with the unit. The one I have set-up has the A footswitch set to morph from A to B on a given patch. The B footswitch is set to be the tap tempo delay footswitch. The other jack allows for another two button footswitch. One allows for advancing upwards in patches (i.e. from 0 to 16). The other allows for bypass of the unit altogether. How do you play it in a performance situation? Well, I have a patch for effect #2 on the unit so that A and B are two different sounds - I use the A patch for clean rhythm sounds and solo sounds, and the B patch I use with various delay times for clean drone or synth type sounds for guitar. If I need chorus (10) or doubling (8) I walk over to my rack between tunes and set it there - kind of unweildy so far. I do not yet have a second footswitch for advancing through the presets, although that will come since, as I said, it is unweildy. There's also a way-cool jack that allows you to control the channel switching of your amplifier (or preamp or whatever) just by moving from A to B - that's very cool. I can press one footswitch and have my pre-amp move from rhythm to lead and simultaneously set the vortex to move to a sound appropriate for it. I also need an expression pedal - I'm looking at the rolls as being the most economical. I'd also love a second vortex before they vanish from the face of the earth since my ART SGE is now pretty much defunct (all the digital stuff blew up when my lil' studio got a lightning hit, everything else was fine - but it makes a horrid 60hz sound now). Todd Madson. Return-Path: Received: from ferret.slip.net (ferret.slip.net [204.160.88.6]) by spica.LaserMaster.Com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA08828 for ; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 07:30:28 -0600 (CST) Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vXodY-0005Zm-00; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 05:23:48 -0800 Message-Id: <8467.199612111323@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 13:23:24 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr ) Subject: Re: Vortex features? Resent-Message-ID: <"iGHOkB.A.2KF.zWrry"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1379 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: ToddM@lasermaster.com Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 05:23:48 -0800 From ???@??? Wed Dec 11 10:17:30 1996 >From kflint Wed Dec 11 08:08:48 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vXrDD-0000oQ-00; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 08:08:47 -0800 Date: 11 Dec 96 11:04:20 EST From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: Vortex features? Message-ID: <961211160419_74074.1316_GHQ106-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"ASBkzC.A.po.owtry"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1381 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 08:08:47 -0800 X-UIDL: 90e10d9bf2950f0253283d0aef7f8e2c Michael pleads: >How do you change patches on the Vortex if it doesn't have MIDI? If it's >supposedly a performance-based processor how do you change patches during >performance? Is it just by up/down pedals, or what??? I thought someone *had* answered, but maybe I dreamt it. Anyway, there are up/down pedals for changing programs. You have the ability to store your sounds in any register you want, and you can "clear" a register, so that you set up a chain of effects (1-2-3; 5-6-7-8; etc.--thus avoiding having to scroll though all 16 registers in a given bank). Also the A/B (bank/morph) switch also has the added bonus of sending a relay off to a channel switching amp. This, I know, has been commented on earlier. Also: I don't know the final status of this, but at one point Digital Music Corp (Ground Control MIDI foot controller) and Lex had discussed a special set of software for the Ground Control that would have specific JamMan commands, and also sent analog switching off to the Vortex. I don't know if it ever evolved, but someone out there might have heard. From ???@??? Thu Dec 12 01:56:51 1996 >From kflint Wed Dec 11 16:24:12 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vXywc-0001rU-00; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 16:24:10 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 18:29:26 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: Re: VG8 with Ebow? Resent-Message-ID: <"ckzW3D.A.enB.GB1ry"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1389 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 16:24:10 -0800 X-UIDL: fde5b378ebcb36e10e0394205eab3554 >Anybody use an Ebow on a VG8? Wonder how it works since the pickup is the >piezo hex one rather than magnetic. > Well I don't know about the VG-8 , buut the e-bow works fine on the piezo's on my Ovation 1867. Not as responsive nor as much fun as magnetic pickups, but it does drives the string. Patrick From ???@??? Wed Dec 11 10:17:31 1996 >From kflint Wed Dec 11 08:37:24 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vXrer-0002ua-00; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 08:37:21 -0800 Message-ID: From: John Ott To: "'Loopers Delight'" Subject: Vortex link, First post Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 10:29:39 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 Encoding: 16 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"qdUfmD.A.njC.oKury"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1382 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 08:37:21 -0800 X-UIDL: 1b772d4ee5d9b83f7e0ded1e0fb7e10d Hello Loopers Just joined the list. Got my Jamman and an Ebow delivered from Musicians Friend last night. (stayed up way too late) Here is a Vortex link I came accross while researching the Jamman: http://www.harmony-central.com/Effects/Data/Lexicon/Vortex-spec.html Jamman link is: http://www.harmony-central.com/Effects/Data/Lexicon/JamMan-spec.html Later John From ???@??? Wed Dec 11 10:17:39 1996 >From kflint Wed Dec 11 09:38:00 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vXsbV-0007W8-00; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 09:37:57 -0800 Date: 11 Dec 96 12:33:14 EST From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Vortex features? Message-ID: <961211173314_100041.247_JHB106-2@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"3ViK6C.A.d1G.SDvry"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1384 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 09:37:57 -0800 X-UIDL: bdb5c3a06ffc259f98b565964b960744 hi Dave, > could someone please list out the features and/or any user experiences? > If this is in a FAQ or on a web site somewhere, just point me to the > place. check out the Looper's Delight website - there are collections of previous posts, one collection containing nothing but Vortex related messages (up to end of October I think). -Michael From ???@??? Wed Dec 11 10:17:43 1996 >From kflint Wed Dec 11 10:05:43 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vXt2M-0001zd-00; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 10:05:42 -0800 Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 13:03:17 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Cook X-Sender: ecook@conch.aa.msen.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Digitech Whammy pedal In-Reply-To: <2AEAB980.1424@mail.bl.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"CxGqwC.A.xsB.3dvry"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1385 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 10:05:42 -0800 X-UIDL: 24821da94c74aa0e453c2cfe38be7b98 On Wed, 11 Dec 1996, David Orton wrote: > Calling all loopers > > Does anyone out there have an experience good or bad with the Whammy > Pedal? > > It appears to be something I could use, but just a shade expensive in > the UK. I'm mainly concerned with sound quality. Do its harmonisations > `warble' (as my Zoom pedal already does!) or is it (relatively) > stable? David -- I don't use one, but the guitarist that I play with does. It's been useful for us. Some of the higher range of pitchshifting (say, from a little above 1 octave, up to 2 octaves) is a bit warbly, but not digustingly so (and once you get up to 2 octaves, pretty much anything you play sounds silly anyway :) Pitchshifting down, and the harmonization effects are cleaner. Oh, and the Whammy II does seem to have a cleaner sound than the original model. That, and an input gain control make it the better choice of the two. (Not sure if you can even find the 1st version anymore, in any case.) Haven't heard the Zoom pedal, so I can't make a relative comparison between the two. --Eric Cook ecook@mail.msen.com Gravitar-Guy http://www.msen.com/~ecook/gravitar.html From ???@??? Thu Dec 12 01:56:31 1996 >From kflint Wed Dec 11 13:31:27 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vXwFP-0002nS-00; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 13:31:23 -0800 Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 16:27:10 -0500 From: KILLINFO@aol.com Message-ID: <961211153840_1388477009@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Vortex features? Resent-Message-ID: <"W8gqQC.A.IXC.xdyry"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1386 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 13:31:23 -0800 X-UIDL: afc79f1b74ccbb5ab59579557b79802b Michael, You wrote > How do you change patches on the Vortex if it doesn't > have MIDI? If it's supposedly a performance-based > processor how do you change patches during performance? > Is it just by up/down pedals, or what??? Yes, that's essentially it (other than an EV-5 or some such pedal that allows for "morphing" between effects pairs). That and the front panel knob are al you've got on a Vortex. Ted From ???@??? Thu Dec 12 01:56:42 1996 >From kflint Wed Dec 11 14:47:40 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vXxRC-00019Q-00; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 14:47:38 -0800 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199612112243.OAA21046@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: implied rhythms To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 14:43:56 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: from "Matthias Grob" at Dec 7, 96 02:20:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ohlayD.A.hx.0kzry"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1387 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 14:47:38 -0800 X-UIDL: f5030a0aa411da33a0842f70517fe9c0 > I maybe must say something of little respect: Its time to go way beyond > Fripp in terms of looping! I said that to himself, too: A part of a long > letter I wrote over a year ago was: > > ...until I found the Soundscapes CD at the beginning of this year. > Listening to it, I felt the desire to contact you: I learned so much about > guitar playing and music from you, mainly in the 70's, and I am still a > rather limited musician. But now, I have developed the looping way of > playing to a degree, where I could teach you something, too - about the > technology of the machine and its musical applications. > > He never answered. Maybe I was not delicate enough or did not understand > his record. Or he and his disciples stick to what has been found, just the > same way as many stick to Strat-Marsh music as developped by Hendrix... He was probably offended by the "I could teach you something" part. I've seen this happen in the taijiquan (martial art) community with instructors who think they know everything there is to know and greet any notion that there is still a thing or two to learn with affrontery and denial. I'm hardly a bigshot but you folks on this list have really opened my eyes about making music with loops. Paolo Valladolid ----------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ----------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Wed Dec 11 10:17:38 1996 >From kflint Wed Dec 11 09:36:55 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vXsaS-0007QZ-00; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 09:36:52 -0800 Message-Id: <199612111734.JAA13648@scv2.apple.com> Subject: Re: Vortex features? Date: Wed, 11 Dec 96 23:35:03 -0000 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"H5kVAC.A.tvG.RCvry"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1383 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 09:36:52 -0800 X-UIDL: e8f63f149301d3d84ceb3353bb17e11f >I've asked this before. About 3 times. Please, _someone_ answer! > >How do you change patches on the Vortex if it doesn't have MIDI? If it's >supposedly a performance-based processor how do you change patches during >performance? Is it just by up/down pedals, or what??? There are two ways to change patches on the Vortex, either by turning the knob on the front panel, or connecting a momentary-contact switch to the back panel. With the momentary switch (Lexicon includes a flimsy one with the Vortex, which can also be used to switch between the A and B presets in each patch), you can increment up the patch number, once with each press of the switch. It rolls over at 16, going back to 1. There's no way to increment down. For performance purposes, I prefer to keep an expression pedal connected, which allows me to morph between the A and B presets dynamically. If I want to switch patches, I use my hand. Travis Hartnett From ???@??? Thu Dec 12 01:56:47 1996 >From kflint Wed Dec 11 15:56:13 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vXyVX-0007WH-00; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 15:56:11 -0800 Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 15:52:45 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: ngold@mail.teleport.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Neil Goldstein Subject: VG8 with Ebow? Resent-Message-ID: <"1-fPKB.A.jyG.dl0ry"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1388 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 15:56:11 -0800 X-UIDL: 225350c1dffec6f0a446283807f9be7a Anybody use an Ebow on a VG8? Wonder how it works since the pickup is the piezo hex one rather than magnetic. I just joined the list 2 weeks ago and couldn't resist getting a Vortex and am very happy with it. Thanks to all for the "references". Wide timbral range with the VG8, should provide enough to explore through the millenium! Neil ngold@teleport.com Portland, OR USA From ???@??? Thu Dec 12 01:56:52 1996 >From kflint Wed Dec 11 16:31:02 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vXz3D-0002Pg-00; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 16:30:59 -0800 Message-Id: <199612120029.QAA76374@scv1.apple.com> Subject: Re: VG8 with Ebow? Date: Thu, 12 Dec 96 06:29:33 -0000 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"QjnufC.A.2EC.2G1ry"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1390 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 16:30:59 -0800 X-UIDL: 2542b0f1ac5d3c9bc50b249729e8c63e >>Anybody use an Ebow on a VG8? Wonder how it works since the pickup is the >>piezo hex one rather than magnetic. >> > > >Well I don't know about the VG-8 , buut the e-bow works fine on the piezo's >on my Ovation 1867. Not as responsive nor as much fun as magnetic pickups, >but it does drives the string. I don't think it's the type of pickup that determines the responsiveness, but rather the type of string. Regular acoustic strings have a lower magnetic content, and aren't as agitated by the Ebow. If you put a set of regular eletric guitar strings on your acoustic, it'd be as responsive as your electric. Travis Hartnett From ???@??? Thu Dec 12 01:56:56 1996 >From kflint Wed Dec 11 23:34:00 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vY5eZ-0003Dp-00; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 23:33:59 -0800 Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 02:31:38 -0500 (EST) From: JOHNPOLLOCK@delphi.com Subject: Re: VG8 with Ebow? To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Message-id: <01ICWN8SNROY9890HK@delphi.com> X-VMS-To: INTERNET"Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Resent-Message-ID: <"QbKZz.A.87C.eT7ry"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1391 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 23:33:59 -0800 X-UIDL: 30cbd4381733684408d85b264d5461d8 >>>Anybody use an Ebow on a VG8? Wonder how it works since the pickup is the >>>piezo hex one rather than magnetic. >>Well I don't know about the VG-8 , buut the e-bow works fine on the piezo's >>on my Ovation 1867. Not as responsive nor as much fun as magnetic pickups, >>but it does drives the string. >I don't think it's the type of pickup that determines the responsiveness, >but rather the type of string. Regular acoustic strings have a lower >magnetic content, and aren't as agitated by the Ebow. If you put a set >of regular eletric guitar strings on your acoustic, it'd be as responsive >as your electric. I agree with Travis, but suggest stainless steel strings rather than regular nickel or monel electric strings. Stainless steel is much brighter, lasts a lot longer, and yields an acoustic sound that is much more acceptable to my ear. YMMV... John Email: johnpollock@delphi.com Troubador Tech on the Web--http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock/ From ???@??? Thu Dec 12 10:16:04 1996 >From kflint Thu Dec 12 02:57:02 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vY8p3-0002AU-00; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 02:57:01 -0800 Message-Id: <12766.199612121056@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 10:56:36 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr ) Subject: Non-Vortex FX question! :) Resent-Message-ID: <"FmAwvC.A.u-B.KT-ry"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1392 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 02:57:01 -0800 X-UIDL: 602d1c74b993d004af2f1168d99f8fdb A quick qn. about FX boxes. Digitech make the Studio Quad, a 4-mono-processors-in-one-box system. THey also make hte Studio Twin which is _not_ 2 independent mono processors, just a single stereo one. Does anyone know if a dual mono box exists (ie with separate processors running different FX, and responding to separate MIDI messages) exists? Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Everything in moderation, including moderation" (Zen Proverb) From ???@??? Thu Dec 12 10:16:09 1996 >From kflint Thu Dec 12 06:43:03 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vYCLn-0006v9-00; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 06:43:03 -0800 Date: Thu, 12 Dec 96 09:41:58 EST From: angel@matisse.pet.upenn.edu (Emmanuel Angel) Message-Id: <9612121441.AA29559@matisse.pet.upenn.edu.noname> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Non-Vortex FX question! :) Resent-Message-ID: <"WecfuD.A.RcG.ymBsy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1393 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 06:43:03 -0800 X-UIDL: 1026f7fbff03ae69599ff9edaa4c975e Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes wrote: >A quick qn. about FX boxes. > >Digitech make the Studio Quad, a 4-mono-processors-in-one-box system. THey >also make hte Studio Twin which is _not_ 2 independent mono processors, >just a single stereo one. Does anyone know if a dual mono box exists (ie >with separate processors running different FX, and responding to separate >MIDI messages) exists? It appears that digitech does not make one. (check out http://www.digitech.com/studio/index.htm). But if you want two mono processors, look into Ensoniq DP2 (~$600) (http://www.ensoniq.com/) or Alesis Midiverb 4 (very clean, inexpensive, 18-bit A/D, good reverbs and some multi-effects [I just got one for $249]). The Ensoniq has had some rave reviews, and can be operated in true dual-mono mode. The Alesis has some dual-mono settings, but not all effects can be run as dual-mono. Mickey ____________________________________________________________________________ Emmanuel Angel Nuclear Medicine Physics and Instrumentation Group University of Pennsylvania Philadelphia, PA 19104 angel@matisse.pet.upenn.edu From ???@??? Thu Dec 12 10:16:14 1996 >From kflint Thu Dec 12 08:03:32 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vYDbe-0002Vk-00; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 08:03:30 -0800 Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 08:59:34 -0700 (MST) From: Dan Howarth To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Non-Vortex FX question! :) In-Reply-To: <12766.199612121056@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"v9-vEB.A.QHC.rvCsy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1394 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 08:03:30 -0800 X-UIDL: 7338e58dc76037dd4ca625341e9aea2f i have a studio quad, which i've enjoyed tremendously. as far as i know, the studio twin is two mono processors with linkable stereo capability. (i'm guessing this because the quad has many, many stereo effects parameters that i hadn't anticipated - it's basically either a four mono or a dual stereo). however, i doubt that each channel of the twin receives separate midi messages. - i don't think i've seen a unit that does this (but it would be great, huh?) **************************************************************** ** Dan Howarth, History/Music, University of Arizona, Tucson ** ** http://www.u.arizona.edu/~howarth (under construction) ** **************************************************************** On Thu, 12 Dec 1996, Dr  wrote: > A quick qn. about FX boxes. > > Digitech make the Studio Quad, a 4-mono-processors-in-one-box system. THey > also make hte Studio Twin which is _not_ 2 independent mono processors, > just a single stereo one. Does anyone know if a dual mono box exists (ie > with separate processors running different FX, and responding to separate > MIDI messages) exists? > > Michael > > Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, > Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. > "Everything in moderation, including moderation" (Zen Proverb) > > > > From ???@??? Fri Dec 13 01:57:40 1996 >From kflint Thu Dec 12 11:43:51 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vYH2q-0000Hk-00; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 11:43:48 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 17:07:03 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Acoustic Loopers? Resent-Message-ID: <"SacQkC.A.0RH.C-Fsy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1395 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 11:43:48 -0800 X-UIDL: 489f6d4f54d6f558752deca2e9c73f4e >At 3:05 PM 12/8/96, Greg & Sandee West wrote: >>Hi fellow loopers, >> >>I really enjoy all the technical experience reflected here and the wide >>variety of looping done in various musical contexts. Are there any >>dedicated acoustic guitar loopers out there? I'd like to hear your ideas. > >I'm not, but when I've talked to a lot of Echoplex users who were acoustic >guitar soloists. Looping seems to be a great fit for that. I know there are >a few acoustic loopers on the list, I'm sure they'll speak up. I was >actually quite surprised by how many acoustic players got into it. I would >say they made up one of the largest categories of echoplex owners. Thats what I experienced. When I started the LOOP POOL CD project last year, I got 4 tapes, 3 of them from acoustic (one nylon) guitar players. The work is very different from electric carpets. The music sounds rather "normal", like 2 or three guitar players. One piece is a flamenco where just the taping on the guitar top is looped. Matthias From ???@??? Fri Dec 13 01:57:38 1996 >From kflint Thu Dec 12 11:43:09 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vYH2B-0000Em-00; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 11:43:07 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 17:07:10 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Vortex problems... Resent-Message-ID: <"W90b1B.A.bSH.G-Fsy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1396 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 11:43:07 -0800 X-UIDL: 83cfc22540fb404112b7fc9332271984 >Thanks for the explanations. Maybe i'll have to unscrew the unit... I >could have a spare pot of the machine, only i'm not so easy with it. Is it realy a pot? Or a switch? >don't dare too much taking the solder into it to replace the pot. I know >that if I have statics on the bench, I may kill my unit, and i don't know >how to remove statics when running the solder thing. Thats not really hot. If you touch the unit and the iron before using, you are almost done. If you want more security, connect the ground of the iron to the ground of the machine. Then it is important to to touch a disconnected pin of a connected chip, but thats hard to happen anyway. In all those years of soldering I did not manage to destroy anything with static charge, and I was not very carefull. >And yes, I step on the idea of having th emchine >for 150$ (in fact with shipping it was 234$) wich is anyway less than the >equivalent of 550 bucks of the unit here (would you believe it!). That is >the deal: half the price, half the presets.... Dont give up too quickly :-) From ???@??? Fri Dec 13 01:59:11 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 13 00:54:47 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vYTOI-00037w-00; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 00:54:46 -0800 Message-Id: <199612131202.DAA08866@anc.ak.net> From: "Greg & Sandee West" To: Subject: FS: Digitech 4-Second Delay Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 23:52:52 -0900 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"BrK_HC.A.m2C.hlRsy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1397 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 00:54:46 -0800 X-UIDL: bf1f580f65622a631577be2b8777f52d Hi all, I hardly ever use my Digitech RDS-4000 anymore. Could anyone out there use it? It's got four secs of delay and a modulation section for chorus, flanging, and even weirder modulations. I think $250 would be a fair price for it. They're not made anymore, and this one is in perfect condition. E-mail me if you're interested and we'll discuss the details. //Six-String Arts/"Recording the Art of the Modern Guitar// Websites: http://users.aol.com/SixStrArts/index.html http://users.aol.com/GregWest01/index.html From ???@??? Fri Dec 13 10:20:00 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 13 08:55:46 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vYatk-0001nE-00; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 08:55:44 -0800 Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 16:21 +0000 (GMT) From: Alan.Maguire@mercer.ie Subject: Subscribe To: Loopers-delight@annihilist.com Message-id: <01ICYV8QL6VM8XA887@kira.team400.ie> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Resent-Message-ID: <"muHIs.A.TiB.RoYsy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1398 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 08:55:44 -0800 X-UIDL: 55cc52fa893e2e022cf74b9233b3b0a1 Please place me on the mailing list for loopers delight. My address is alan.maguire@mercer.ie or alternatively send me instructions on how I can subscribe, Thanks. From ???@??? Sat Dec 14 00:06:37 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 13 16:23:17 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vYhsq-0005rI-00; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 16:23:16 -0800 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 19:24:59 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: Digitech Whammy pedal Resent-Message-ID: <"0ZjFiD.A.2RF.yKfsy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1399 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 16:23:16 -0800 X-UIDL: cd71f9061bbae6878377d13f05ced9fe I use the Whammy II (the jprices are dropping) and it has many uses ... at the price (less than $200) it does not do a bad job of on the fly harmonizing and pitch shifting within preset parameters ... but with the pedal one can get in between various setting, create some interesting noise ... and do some other neat things ... shifting pitch one and two octaves higher just before a good reverb unit and feeding it a good tone, makes for some sweet lines. Paul> Calling all loopers > > Does anyone out there have an experience good or bad with the Whammy > Pedal? > > It appears to be something I could use, but just a shade expensive in > the UK. I'm mainly concerned with sound quality. Do its harmonisations > `warble' (as my Zoom pedal already does!) or is it (relatively) > stable? > > Cheers > > > David From ???@??? Sun Dec 15 12:34:13 1996 >From kflint Sat Dec 14 21:08:32 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vZ8oJ-0003Qg-00; Sat, 14 Dec 1996 21:08:23 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 21:01:02 -0800 To: antonc@earthlink.net, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Echoplex problems -- help Resent-Message-ID: <"1W-d.A.WxC.la4sy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1400 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 21:08:23 -0800 X-UIDL: 5c7f434e34b909f1f9fe201595035b49 At 9:28 AM 12/9/96, Anton Chovit wrote: >Kim Flint wrote: >>... >Kim wrote, >> You're particular troubles sound related, but different. Do you have one of >> the very first set of production units? ... > >My brother Chris and I have 5 plex's between us. We had oh soo many >problems, but we sent them back to Oberheim and months and months later >they came back (hooray!!) working much better. glad to hear those problems got fixed! One of these days I will try to get the mod that fixes the power up/down problems with multiple brothersyncing echoplexes on the web site. You should be able to get someone with reasonable electronics tech ability to do it for you. >We still have glitches >when running brother sync for all five, but these seem to be of the >power up/down type. We still have lots of irregularity when syncing w/ >MIDI and brother sync. I think the crux of your problem is right here. By using both midi and BrotherSync for sync sources, some of the Echoplexes in your setup are probably getting confused. The shipping software doesn't deal with this situation very well, but we did put quite a lot of effort into that for the upgrade. Its been a while since the work was done, so my memory is starting to fade on just how far we got. Matthias, Eric and I are getting ourselves set up so that we can continue development of plex software, so I'll check into that again and see if it handles your specific problems. One thing you might want to try is just syncing everything to midi. If you are using a sequencer or something, just sync all the echoplexes to that clock source and don't use the brother at all. Or work our combinations where each echoplex is only receiving one sync source. For instance, you might want to have everything use Brother, with one of the echoplexes set up to generate midi clocks for the sequencers. >I have also noticed that when syncing to MIDI (sync= IN), if start the >MIDI (drum machine, seq, etc.) then hit record, the plex goes to 000 and >waits for the MIDI "one beat" (as it should). However, if I delete this >loop or try sereral takes, eventually, the plex looses the "one beat" >and jsuts starts recording as soon as I hit record. The only way to get >things working is to shut off/on the plex, stop the MIDI and start >over. You shouldn't have to actually turn it off. If you stop the midi clock, and reset the loop on the plex, then restart the clock again, it should get itself sorted out. Still, what you are experiencing is a minor problem with the current software. While it can keep syncing to the midi clocks after resets or new loop recordings, it sometimes loses track of the "one beat" defined by the 8ths/beat parameter. (that parameter should really be called 8ths/cycle) I do recall focusing on this problem for a while in the upgrade development, and I think it now keeps track of the "one" even through resets and multiple loop recordings. We just didn't have time during the initial development to work out all these different scenarios. So even though we did do a pretty good job of sorting through some pretty esoteric situations with limited resources, some things like this pop up. You'd be amazed at how complicated it is to deal with all the possible situations a user might find themselves in. Especially since its a new sort of instrument, with a new kind of interface and no serious precedents to work from. There were times when we would spend days going back and forth over things like "what should happen when quantize = on, we are syncing to midi clock, insertmode = replace, RoundMode = on, the loop is being multiplied with the multiply function, and rather than ending with another press of multiply, the user does a long press of the insert button, which is now the replace function, at some point in the middle of the loop?" Sometimes I had to wonder if anyone would ever encounter some of these things, but I'm glad we dug into it as deeply as we did. >I have also been unable to get Roland or Boss MIDI gear to get >the plex to start on the "one beat" (Roland PMA-5, Dr 550) these units >send MIDI clock as evident by the flashing green light on the plex, but >when you hit record, it starts on the very next beat, not the "one", >similar to the way JamMans tap into sync w/ MIDI. I'm not sure about this one. It sounds to me like you didn't have quantize turned on perhaps? There could be something strange about how Roland does midi clock. Hopefully I'll get a chance to look into that. Anyway, midi syncing should be much better in the upgrade, which I believe in my heart will one day overcome the odds and actually become a real product.... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Dec 15 12:34:10 1996 >From kflint Sat Dec 14 21:07:33 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vZ8nU-0003Ll-00; Sat, 14 Dec 1996 21:07:32 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 21:01:22 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Syncing to MIDI Resent-Message-ID: <"55RRMC.A.uzC.4a4sy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1401 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 21:07:32 -0800 X-UIDL: d49b61029a5aadfaf9f03fc20db19a09 At 5:59 PM 12/9/96, The Man Himself wrote: >On Mon, 9 Dec 1996, Anton Chovit wrote: > >> I have also noticed that when syncing to MIDI (sync= IN), if start the >> MIDI (drum machine, seq, etc.) then hit record, the plex goes to 000 and >> waits for the MIDI "one beat" (as it should). However, if I delete this >> loop or try sereral takes, eventually, the plex looses the "one beat" >> and jsuts starts recording as soon as I hit record. The only way to get >> things working is to shut off/on the plex, stop the MIDI and start >> over. > >Yeah, I've run into this problem many times as well. It's kind of a drag >to have to power down, power back up, then start from scratch every time >you want to sync a new loop. Perhaps this is yet another element >corrected in the upgrade? Should be. We worked on midi syncing a lot. I'll have to revisit it to see that it deals with the situations you guys are talking about it. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Dec 15 12:34:12 1996 >From kflint Sat Dec 14 21:08:17 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vZ8oB-0003Pm-00; Sat, 14 Dec 1996 21:08:15 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 21:01:25 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Ground Control Resent-Message-ID: <"U0cAwD.A.6zC.5a4sy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1402 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 21:08:15 -0800 X-UIDL: 176fdf2be8b7c0cfda996d4450434901 At 11:45 AM 12/9/96, Ed Drake wrote: >Kim said: > >>Another thing you should know if you own or are planning to get an >>Echoplex, is that the Ground Control cannot control an echoplex. At least >>not with the plexes current software. This is because the plex doesn't use >>Program Change to control its functions, and that is all the Ground Control >>sends. (I talked with the President of Digital Music about this, with the >>idea that maybe we could work out some deal where he adds some more >>functionality to his pedal and we recommend it as the preferred pedal for >>our products. That's when I decided the guy was a jerk, because he had that >>"guitar players are too dumb to understand anything like that, so there's >>no point in changing" attitude.) > >Kim , you may be right about the Pres. of Digital Music being a jerk, I >don't know, I've never spoken to him, but he may have listened to you and >Fripp just a little bit because with the version 2 software the Ground >Control can be set up to send Control change on/off messages as well as the >program change and continuous controller messages. There is a mode which >allows you to set up your banks of 10 in a configuration where footswitches >1-4 are presets (Program changes) and Switches 5-0 are control change >messages. Whether this will allow people to use The Plex with the GC now , >I don't know. What do you think? There is another pedal called the Ground >Link >( List $160) which can be linked with the GC and it can be configured to >have all 8 of its' footswitches be used as Control Changes . If you can set up the switches so that they have a momentary action, where pressing it sends one midi command and releasing it sends a different command, then it will probably work. You would set it up like this: On the Echoplex, set the ControlSource parameter to "cnt" for continous controller messages. Set the midi channel to 1 (or whatever) and the Source# to 36 (or whatever). On the pedal, say you want to use one of the switches to start and stop recording loops. You need to program this switch to have a mometary action, so that it sends controller 38, value 64, channel 1 when it is pressed, and controller 38, value 0, channel 1 when released. If your pedal can't do momentary action, and only sends the one midi command when pressed, you can still do it. Its just a bit less elegant, and requires two switches for the record function. For this you also have to set the RecordMode parameter on the Echoplex to "sus" for sustain. (this causes the echoplex to record for as long as the frontpanel button is pressed) On your pedal, program one switch to send controller 38, value 64, channel 1. This will start record. Program another footswitch to send controller 38, value 0, channel 1. This one will then end record. You won't have any way to reset loops, so to shut it up just record a short loop of silence. >>There are a few reasons for the Echoplex being that way. One is just >>adhering to the midi spec. Midi program change messages are intended for >>changing programs, not executing functions like Start Record. > >I don't understand a lot of the technical business of MIDI but I wonder how >Lexicon got the Jam Man to use Program Change messages to control Recording >, Layering, Cueing Loops, etc. Easy. The jamman interface is fairly simple, so they can use a simple midi command like program change. Also, violating a published specification simply requires that you write software that violates it. There is no midi police that will do anything about it, and it happens all the time. That's one of the reasons why midi is so screwed up. That's also why every time Microsoft or Apple change their system software, half the applications out there stop working. Its not Apple or Microsoft's fault, but the fault of programmers who are to lazy or whatever to follow the guidelines both companies publish for writing applications. >Kim, it sounds like the Digitech isn't perfect in your mind either so why >don't you design a MIDI controller with everything we'd need ? :-) >Also, I think it would be a great idea for you to put a tutorial together >on footpedals and the Plex. > >Keep up the good work , Ed We almost did such a midi foot controller project at g-wiz, since several of us were dissatisfied with all the products on the market. It was too far down the priority list to happen though. The place collapsed before we ever got near doing it. I'll work on the pedal tutorial, maybe over the christmas holiday.... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Dec 15 12:34:08 1996 >From kflint Sat Dec 14 21:07:27 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vZ8nO-0003LA-00; Sat, 14 Dec 1996 21:07:26 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 21:01:28 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Fripp and the Plex Resent-Message-ID: <"Qy4WmD.A.m0C.-a4sy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1403 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 21:07:26 -0800 X-UIDL: ba352cfcdc3d38b8f2ac3c67f9ef773c At 8:52 AM 12/9/96, S. Patrick Hickey wrote: >Kim, > >So, you met Crimso. How nice for you. >(Seething, loathing, envious, hating, jealousy abounds!!! :) >:) :) So how's this: at the time, I had only listened to one of their albums years before, when I had borrowed it from a friend for a week. So I could hardly be described as a fan. So in addition to being totally unfamiliar with their music, I knew practically nothing about Robert Fripp, aside from little tidbits I had picked up here and there from reading Guitar Player. If there was some magnitude to the event, it was certainly wasted on me! I did enjoy the show enough to go out and buy a couple of albums (Thrak and Discipline). I like the music, but it hasn't exactly been in heavy rotation in the cd player.... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Dec 15 12:34:16 1996 >From kflint Sun Dec 15 00:27:30 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vZBuz-0002SY-00; Sun, 15 Dec 1996 00:27:29 -0800 Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 00:25:32 -0800 Message-Id: <199612150825.AAA01243@dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com> From: erwill@ix.netcom.com (James E Williamson) Subject: Ridiculous Echoprice To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Resent-Message-ID: <"GHZnaD.A.XPC.9Y7sy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1404 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 00:27:29 -0800 X-UIDL: f106f679cb77d2dcf611b24ec3e5c947 I just wanted to annouce that the marketing geniuses at GMI, the parent company of Gibson and Oberheim, have decided once again, in their infinite wisdom, to raise the price of the Echoplex yet again, to a list price of 1000 US dollars, effective jan 1. So, all of you iffy jamman people should jump ship immediately while the list price is only :) $700. And, If there are any Illinois loopers out there, please send me mail. Thanks, -- James Eric Williamson - erwill@ix.netcom.com - erwill@heartland.bradley.edu One of Peoria's most obscure ambient blues musicians From ???@??? Sun Dec 15 20:49:36 1996 >From kflint Sun Dec 15 20:25:32 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vZUcN-0004rq-00; Sun, 15 Dec 1996 20:25:31 -0800 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9612152320.ZM18132@sparc.arts.rpi.edu> Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 23:20:52 -0500 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 06sep94) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: I coulda had uh ebowed V8 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"99bKdB.A.cXE.24Mty"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1405 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 20:25:31 -0800 X-UIDL: a614744ab7cdfd2a0913e854c4b06ab2 greets and beats and I'll soon be outta new york and back to neworleans for a time! yeah!!!!!! }8-] about the e-bow and the roland device. it's physics dude. basically what yer dealing with is a midi pick-up designed to respond to specific types of percussive vibration. If you were able to make this hexiphonic pickup more sensitive(by a huge amount) then you might be able to use it in this way. in most ways the vg is a synth more than a effect. from my experience with both the vg-8/gr-1/etc and the gk-2/2a pickup it is not very practical to try to use the instrument in such a way. furthermore, the vg-8 is designed to replicate(as in replicant) complete guitar/amp/pickup and almost, even, technique ... if you could get the e-bow to generate enough response from mr. V then more than likely you would not get any of the qualities that make the e-bow what it is. in my mind the vg-8 is an interesting piece that does away with much of the physicallity of electric quitar. my humble experience and opinions, of course. collier ps: bought a vortex... think that guitar center and lexicon will recognize us as the single greatest buying power of the vortex and send us an award? or maybe, a tshirt? how bout an upgrade path? eek! }8-\ From ???@??? Mon Dec 16 08:37:18 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 16 08:33:34 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vZfyt-0001WV-00; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 08:33:31 -0800 Message-Id: <199612161632.IAA06346@scv2.apple.com> Subject: Echoplex power-up weirdness Date: Mon, 16 Dec 96 10:32:40 -0000 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"SXJGr.A.mSB.qlXty"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1412 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 08:33:31 -0800 X-UIDL: 9803a9c7808618a9bff89e7486bf3527 Kim, I've had my Echoplex for about a week now, and just about everytime I turn it on, the front panel lights will flicker about in a random manner. If I turn it on and off three or four times, it's fine. Any ideas? Travis Hartnett From ???@??? Mon Dec 16 23:28:03 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 16 12:23:52 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vZjZn-0007k5-00; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 12:23:51 -0800 Message-Id: <199612162022.MAA09390@scv2.apple.com> Subject: Re: Looping vs delay effects Date: Mon, 16 Dec 96 14:22:56 -0000 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"jWhsK.A.wJH.w9aty"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1415 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 12:23:51 -0800 X-UIDL: fdf49b4ace10ac3b961fde05f150d0bc I'm surprised at the number of people who want to control their Echoplex via a MIDI foot controller. I prefer to have one foot controller for governing my sound options, and one for the loop. I want to be be able to change sounds and control the loop without worrying about what bank I'm in. Having two controllers allows me to potentially have access to all my presets, without having to reprogram my controller. I haven't seen a midi controller that was flexible enough to handle all this, since you can't have multiple switches "active" (pressing a button delivers a preset, you can't have two switches "down" at the same time). A hundred dollars is a hundred dollars, but I think that if you've got an Echoplex/Jamman and a rackmount preamp (or two) and a stereo setup, you're already in for a pile of green. If someone knows of a robust (no skimpy MIDI/external AC adaptor connectors) and flexible (multiple switches on concurrently, namable patches, etc) for under $500, please let me know. Travis Hartnett From ???@??? Mon Dec 16 08:36:59 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 16 06:46:45 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vZeJY-0004ND-00; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 06:46:44 -0800 Date: 16 Dec 96 09:39:29 EST From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: Fripp and the Plex Message-ID: <961216143928_74074.1316_GHQ87-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"Nuyn5C.A.55D.JAWty"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1406 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 06:46:44 -0800 X-UIDL: 3ac14345b2c661244ca1d22b31aa0af6 Kim writes: >So how's this: at the time, I had only listened to one of their albums >years before, when I had borrowed it from a friend for a week. So I could >hardly be described as a fan. So in addition to being totally unfamiliar >with their music, I knew practically nothing about Robert Fripp, aside >from little tidbits I had picked up here and there from reading Guitar >Player. If there was some magnitude to the event, it was certainly wasted >on me! I, too had an interesting Crimson backstage experience, though I didn't meet up with Mr. Fripp. I had a great time chatting with Tony and Bill, and later Pat (who had gotten the passes), and when I found Adirian, he was talking with Reeves Gabrels (with whom I had been hanging two nights previous after the PJ Harvey concert with Joe Gore on guitar). Anyway, Adrian looks at me, and says "I know you" and of course I re-introduce myself (for the 3rd time) as Jon Durant, Lexicon. To which he says, rather unpleasantly, "oh yeah, right. How'd you get back here?" Gee, Adrian, everyone in the band uses our gear (including yourself), is it so surprising that a couple of 'em offered me tickets, etc? What a dick. Also re: Fripp and Frippertronics/Soundscapes. Earlier, our friend Paolo made reference to the need to go beyond Fripp in this loopage arena, and I heartily applaud him for his words and vision. Last year I bought "Blessing of Tears" with some trepidation. I thought it would blow me away, and I'd feel like an idiot trying to make loop-based music in the face of his maginitude. So I put it on, and immediately begin to feel like I was right. Then, several things happend: 1. the music didn't progress. It built to a level, and stayed there. 2. There were no dynamic shifts, nor were there any moments of absolute release. Just this (beautiful) wash of sound. 3. Then track 2 comes on, and it's the same thing (essentially) as track 1. No textural change, same harmonic structure, no difference from where I sat. As the record wore on, I had to turn it off. Then someone gave me a copy of Radiophonics. It begins with some wild atonal stuff, and I thought "yeah, OK, here we go". But it didn't go anywhere. Just a whole CD's worth of this stuff. Long way of saying, Fripp has great ideas, and is doing interesting work, but it's not enough on its own. I walked away from those two CDs thinking, "He's left the door wide open for the rest of us". Anyway, my $0.02 worth. From ???@??? Mon Dec 16 08:37:10 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 16 07:29:43 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vZez8-0006AC-00; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 07:29:42 -0800 Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 10:26:58 -0500 From: "S. Patrick Hickey" Message-Id: <199612161526.KAA11127@nielsenmedia.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Fripp and the Plex Resent-Message-ID: <"GCFnJ.A.-rF.GqWty"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1409 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 07:29:42 -0800 X-UIDL: f468176514ea148041660f8348062d64 Red (the song) has got to be one of my all-time favorite energizing demonic songs. From ???@??? Mon Dec 16 08:37:07 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 16 07:07:09 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vZedH-0005D3-00; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 07:07:07 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 13:11:20 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Syncing to MIDI Resent-Message-ID: <"v70tWB.A.ExE.FVWty"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1407 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 07:07:07 -0800 X-UIDL: 892b02742039edfa7fe1974b86e224d0 Anton Chovit: >>> I have also noticed that when syncing to MIDI (sync= IN), if start the >>> MIDI (drum machine, seq, etc.) then hit record, the plex goes to 000 and >>> waits for the MIDI "one beat" (as it should). However, if I delete this >>> loop or try sereral takes, eventually, the plex looses the "one beat" >>> and jsuts starts recording as soon as I hit record. The only way to get >>> things working is to shut off/on the plex, stop the MIDI and start >>> over. The Man Himself: >>Yeah, I've run into this problem many times as well. It's kind of a drag >>to have to power down, power back up, then start from scratch every time >>you want to sync a new loop. Perhaps this is yet another element >>corrected in the upgrade? Kim: >Should be. We worked on midi syncing a lot. I'll have to revisit it to see >that it deals with the situations you guys are talking about it. This sound like two different problems to me: One is, that the Plex only knows that you want to sync to some external clock, after in Reset, the one beat passed once. It means that you have to wait for the left green dot to flash once, before you press RECORD, otherwhise it starts recording immediately. The other problem is, that MIDI does not tell the Plex, when the one beat is. So if the sequencer continues running and you stop and do another Record, it might wait, but not for the correct one beat. This can be fixed by stopping and restarting the MIDIclock, in other words stop and start the sequencer. The Plex watches the MIDIclock coming: After there was none for some time (sequencer stopped), the very next is considered a beginning of a note. Confusion in this talk can increase because MIDI puts out 12 clocks during one 8th of a note. So one problem for the soft is to find the first of these 12 clocks (the stop-start trick), and another problem, probably rather of the user, is to get the right note as the first of the bar. I hope this is correct (I do not use it myself and treated it some time ago). If this does not solve the problem, please tell me and I will go though it more seriously. Matthias From ???@??? Mon Dec 16 08:37:15 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 16 08:15:06 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vZfh2-0000SA-00; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 08:15:04 -0800 Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 11:11:24 -0500 (EST) From: David Talento X-Sender: legion@omni1 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Echoplex Pedal ?? In-Reply-To: <961216143928_74074.1316_GHQ87-1@CompuServe.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"bE1hNC.A.XR.7TXty"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1410 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 08:15:04 -0800 X-UIDL: 1bf47706aec23210b71e8f99650abf84 I recently picked up an Obie echoplex without the pedal. I was messing around with it's midi on one of my old keyboards and figured out how to assign record, overdub, reverse, etc. to individual keys. This got me thinking about all the cheap used mdidi foot pedal (ADA, ART X15 etc) that are floating around and if they could do the trick as well. I'm considering buying the actual obie pedal for this although it's over $100 and if I'm gonna spend that money I'd rather get a pedal with a little more flexibilty that i can use on other gear. has anyone used an off the shelf midi copntroller pedalboard to control their echoplex? any suggestions on one to check out or settings to use? Forgive me if thsi is covered somewhere. Just point me to a URl or FAQ and I'll dig it out myself if it is. Thanks for any/all advice. David -------- Help Wanted Productions - Bringing you the best in organic electronic and sweaty rock music since we started. Http://www.voicenet.com/~legion Now available for SALE!: Electronic Music Project compilation cd. Over one hour of electronic music from Space to Jungle. Only $10! From ???@??? Mon Dec 16 08:37:09 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 16 07:07:57 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vZee4-0005GI-00; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 07:07:56 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 13:11:29 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Fripp and the Plex Resent-Message-ID: <"rhYd0B.A.dyE.PVWty"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1408 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 07:07:56 -0800 X-UIDL: 927c1ad5add68a7cdc57aa12b3513429 >>So, you met Crimso. How nice for you. ... >I did enjoy the show enough to go out and buy a couple of albums (Thrak and >Discipline). I like the music, but it hasn't exactly been in heavy rotation >in the cd player.... I once had ALL the Crimson albums. When I moved here, I just kept "islands" and "red" which I find marvelous. Matthias From ???@??? Mon Dec 16 08:37:16 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 16 08:28:14 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vZftl-0001CC-00; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 08:28:13 -0800 From: Kevin Simonson Message-Id: <199612161630.AA110233800@eagle.uis.edu> Subject: Re:Red To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 10:30:00 -0700 (CST) In-Reply-To: <199612161526.KAA11127@nielsenmedia.com> from "S. Patrick Hickey" at Dec 16, 96 10:26:58 am Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"sgttMB.A.4_.ogXty"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1411 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 08:28:13 -0800 X-UIDL: 366a82c5fa71fc0b70b42159af827093 > > Red (the song) has got to be one of my all-time favorite energizing > demonic songs. > I have a casette wedged in my car stereo that is ONLY Red...over and over and over (off topic, but technically still a loop :)) -- Kevin Simonson * AS/400 Application Development Team University of Illinois-Springfield * Norwest Mortgage, Inc. Computer Science, et al. * Springfield, IL simonson@eagle.uis.edu * From ???@??? Mon Dec 16 23:27:47 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 16 11:07:38 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vZiO1-0002zZ-00; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 11:07:37 -0800 Message-ID: From: John Ott To: "'Loopers Delight'" Subject: re: digitech whammy and Fripp Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 13:04:26 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 Encoding: 58 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"y7UdNC.A.ooC.x1Zty"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1413 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 11:07:37 -0800 X-UIDL: b03fe69e2ff8f7e15fe1422f3ca1edd1 >>I use the Whammy II (the jprices are dropping) and it has many uses ... at the price (less than $200) it does not do a bad job of on the fly harmonizing and pitch shifting within preset parameters ... but with the pedal one can get in between various setting, create some interesting noise ... and do some other neat things ... shifting pitch one and two octaves higher just before a good reverb unit and feeding it a good tone, makes for some sweet lines. Paul> Calling all loopers > > Does anyone out there have an experience good or bad with the Whammy > Pedal? > > It appears to be something I could use, but just a shade expensive in > the UK. I'm mainly concerned with sound quality. Do its harmonisations > `warble' (as my Zoom pedal already does!) or is it (relatively) > stable? > > Cheers > > > David<< I use the Digitech RP-6 multi-effects pedal (I got it for $319) which has the Digitech Whammy as one of many effects. Might be worth the extra bucks if you don't have a lot of gear already) I've been very happy with this unit. (if it only had more delay I wouldn't have got the Jamman) It's great for adding a fifth or third (or whatever you want) above a note for cool ebow harmony effects. As for the recent review of "Blessing of Tears" posted here, I would say maybe it doesn't progress or resolve alot but I think it works as atmosphere and for emotional content. I really like "Midnight Blue" I also have Radiophonics but I've not listend to it as much. I prefer the textures of "Blessing" (also Fripp/Eno's "Evening star " lie in a dark room with this on to cure bad headaches. works for me) I saw Fripp solo looping at Georgetown University last fall. He played some pieces similar to "Blessing " and some like "Radiophonics". One piece sounded like angels singing harmony. What a player peace John From ???@??? Mon Dec 16 23:27:55 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 16 11:56:58 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vZj9j-00064R-00; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 11:56:55 -0800 Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 11:54:07 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: ngold@mail.teleport.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Neil Goldstein Subject: Looping vs delay effects Resent-Message-ID: <"3_WvoB.A.9gF.vjaty"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1414 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 11:56:55 -0800 X-UIDL: f35b9a6d2033c8702ab5e1cd22c3d03b This may have been discussed before, but I hear people mentioning things like "if it had more delay, I wouldn't need a JamMan". IMHO, there is no comparison between the delay you get on an effects unit, no matter how much delay, and a dedicated looping device like JamMan or EchoPlex wherein the player controls the loop start and stop point and *the material* that is looped. There may be looping occuring in the delay effect but it doesn't have the flexibility for defining the *exact* loop one wants, esp regards what should be recorded and what should pass the delay line. This can be set up in patches or using real time control, but at some cost to spontaneity, as each tempo or phrase length would demand a different tweak. Though with that said, I love the happy "accidents" that happen playing with crossfading delays in the Vortex and using midi controllers to change feedback and delay time etc. in (my case) the Quadraverb 2. This is said to hear what others have to say on this, more than my having a strong opinion on the matter :-) Neil ngold@teleport.com Portland, OR USA From ???@??? Mon Dec 16 23:28:10 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 16 13:01:19 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vZk9y-0002VI-00; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 13:01:14 -0800 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199612150825.AAA01243@dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 12:59:34 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: Ridiculous Echoprice & software upgrade Resent-Message-ID: <"l9q9lB.A.vLC.lgbty"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1418 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 13:01:14 -0800 X-UIDL: 38a7f61ef2a0970aac93f76a76d4410a James E. Williamson wrote: > I just wanted to annouce that the marketing geniuses at GMI, the >parent company of Gibson and Oberheim, have decided once again, in >their infinite wisdom, to raise the price of the Echoplex yet again, to >a list price of 1000 US dollars, effective jan 1. So, all of you iffy >jamman people should jump ship immediately while the list price is only >:) $700. Oh man....this is unfortunate. Kim, Matthias.....or anyone else with some intuition in this area: WHEN IS THE SOFTWARE UPGRADE GOING TO COME OUT??!!?? The frustration I'm feeling is probably what motivated Matthias to design the 'plex in the first place.... - Chris _____________________________________________________ Chris Chovit cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov AVIRIS Experiment Coordinator ph: (818) 354-8077 JPL M/S 306-336 FAX: (818) 393-4406 4800 Oak Grove Dr. pager #: (800) 759-8255 PIN 834-3869 Pasadena, CA 91109 _____________________________________________________ From ???@??? Mon Dec 16 23:28:04 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 16 12:25:49 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vZjbe-00007V-00; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 12:25:46 -0800 Message-ID: From: John Ott To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Looping vs delay effects Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:23:18 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 Encoding: 50 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"oJj3_.A.SSH.n_aty"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1416 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 12:25:46 -0800 X-UIDL: 8667f9bcbdc0b7ef8586775aa2537a51 >---------- >>From: Neil Goldstein >This may have been discussed before, but I hear people mentioning things >like "if it had more delay, I wouldn't need a JamMan". IMHO, there is no >comparison between the delay you get on an effects unit, no matter how much >delay, and a dedicated looping device like JamMan or EchoPlex wherein the >player controls the loop start and stop point and *the material* that is >looped. There may be looping occuring in the delay effect but it doesn't >have the flexibility for defining the *exact* loop one wants, esp regards >what should be recorded and what should pass the delay line. This can be >set up in patches or using real time control, but at some cost to >spontaneity, as each tempo or phrase length would demand a different tweak. > >Though with that said, I love the happy "accidents" that happen playing >with crossfading delays in the Vortex and using midi controllers to change >feedback and delay time etc. in (my case) the Quadraverb 2. > >This is said to hear what others have to say on this, more than my having a >strong opinion on the matter :-) > > > > > >Neil >ngold@teleport.com >Portland, OR USA< > > Having more control is nice but my main reason to get the Jamman was for longer Delay/Loop times. The RP-6 has 5 different Loop modes (changing source and delay between two channels) It's main limitation is 800 msec of maximum delay per channel. I've heard of people hacking more memory to the RP-6, but I'd rather not do that myself. I don't find that control of the Jamman that much easier than the RP, but I've only had the Jamman for about a week. I guess the main advantage is control of layering. Don't like the footswitch much ( need more controls) Can anyone recommend a MIDI-pedal they like for looping with the Jamman? (or the with echoplex for you more affluent folks) 8-} peace John > > > > From ???@??? Mon Dec 16 23:28:08 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 16 13:01:06 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vZk9l-0002Tf-00; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 13:01:01 -0800 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199612162058.MAA26263@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: I coulda had uh ebowed V8 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 12:58:16 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <9612152320.ZM18132@sparc.arts.rpi.edu> from "Louis Collier Hyams" at Dec 15, 96 11:20:52 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"0i0I0C.A.jGC.ufbty"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1417 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 13:01:01 -0800 X-UIDL: 25cd945a1b768858e337cee713075915 > about the e-bow and the roland device. > it's physics dude. basically what yer dealing with is a midi pick-up designed > to respond to specific types of percussive vibration. If you were able to > make this hexiphonic pickup more sensitive(by a huge amount) then you might I would say the hex pickup is actually _more_ sensitive than most electric guitar pickups; it seems to be able to detect low-volume string vibrations more easily. That's why if you run a Roland guitar synth signal and an electric guitar pickup signal in parallel as you sustain a note (without Ebows or other string drivers) the electric guitar signal drops off much sooner than the synth. > be able to use it in this way. in most ways the vg is a synth more than a > effect. > from my experience with both the vg-8/gr-1/etc and the gk-2/2a pickup it is > not very practical to try to use the instrument in such a way. > furthermore, the vg-8 is designed to replicate(as in replicant) complete > guitar/amp/pickup and almost, even, technique ... if you could get the e-bow Actually, it can be made to generate sounds that are not imitative of the guitar at all. Using teh Ebow to sustain a VG8 violin sound, for example, is a very reasonable application. > to generate enough response from mr. V then more than likely you would not > get any of the qualities that make the e-bow what it is. > in my mind the vg-8 is an interesting piece that does away with much of the > physicallity of electric quitar. Since teh VG8 uses the strings of the guitar as the sound source rather than oscillators, I find that a _lot_ of the expressive moves that can be done with normal guitar also work very well on the VG8. Unlike MIDI guitar or guitar synths, the VG8 responds very well to things like pinched harmonics and notes being plucked at different points of the strings (plucked close to bridge vs. plucked closer to or on top of the fretboard). A middle C note fretted at one part of the fretboard definitely sounds different in comparison to a middle C fretted at another part of the fretboard with the VG8; impossible for MIDI guitar/guitar synth. Paolo Valladolid ----------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ----------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Mon Dec 16 23:28:14 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 16 13:17:54 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vZkQ2-0003aC-00; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 13:17:50 -0800 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199612162115.NAA26489@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: Fripp and the Plex To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 13:15:18 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: from "Kim Flint" at Dec 14, 96 09:01:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"aPIvzB.A.RMD.qvbty"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1419 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 13:17:50 -0800 X-UIDL: 1df87d375a42a8c0d9c1063e874ec556 > years before, when I had borrowed it from a friend for a week. So I could > hardly be described as a fan. So in addition to being totally unfamiliar > with their music, I knew practically nothing about Robert Fripp, aside from > little tidbits I had picked up here and there from reading Guitar Player. > If there was some magnitude to the event, it was certainly wasted on me! > > I did enjoy the show enough to go out and buy a couple of albums (Thrak and > Discipline). I like the music, but it hasn't exactly been in heavy rotation > in the cd player.... > > kim I think King Crimson's music serves as a useful bridge between "normal" rock music and the wild n' woolly world of experimental and free-improvised music for people who are used to more accessible rock, are willing to be a little daring, but aren't quite ready yet for, say, Fred Frith, Hans Reichel, Derek Bailey, Jim O' Rourke, Dr. Nerve,etc. Kind of like Frank Zappa, except that while he used humor and sendups of popular music forms to lure people into listening to adventurous music, King Crimson relies on heavy riffs and rhythmic effects. And both excelled at creating public personalities to draw attention to themselves. Just my opinion, of course. Paolo Valladolid ----------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ----------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Mon Dec 16 23:28:59 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 16 21:45:51 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vZsLb-0000vX-00; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 21:45:47 -0800 Message-ID: <32B5C2F3.582E@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 21:45:41 +0000 From: Anton Chovit Reply-To: antonc@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Ridiculous Echoprice & software upgrade References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-JfPb.A.8y.ONjty"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1421 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 21:45:47 -0800 X-UIDL: b1256cc5701ee151614112dee65b99e7 Pass me the vasoline; if I have to get screwed, at least LET IT FEEL GOOD! From ???@??? Mon Dec 16 23:28:44 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 16 17:45:32 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vZob4-0004WZ-00; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 17:45:30 -0800 Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 18:43:27 -0700 (MST) From: Dan Howarth To: stickwire-l@netcom.com cc: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: KC video: live in japan, oct. 95 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"QF_3nB.A.BHE.Frfty"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1420 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 17:45:30 -0800 X-UIDL: 7f2b7ab260166db3dbfaa9b6fb4902e2 anybody else have this yet? i've watched it twice in the last 20 hours... i'm sorry that i missed them on the tour, but this seems to make up for it. there's great footage of everyone (except TG, in my opinion not enough) and it's very well patched together - except for very annoying camera shaking and panning (i think it was an attempt to be weird. just kinda shook up my stomach a little - and being the worldest evil-est band and slightly drunk... well, the camera didn't need to shake that much - they're hard enough to follow as it is). there's some neat footage of fripp dialing his effects during B'Boom, too. very prominent TC 2290s and Eventide equipment in his main rack. there's not much of a comparison between the stick and the warr guitar (of which TG plays only the 8 string model) in the video. there is an interesting version of the stick improv/duet from the live album, but the processing of each was unclear for comparison value. **************************************************************** ** Dan Howarth, History/Music, University of Arizona, Tucson ** ** http://www.u.arizona.edu/~howarth (under construction) ** **************************************************************** From ???@??? Tue Dec 17 01:57:20 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 16 23:32:42 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vZu12-0005bY-00; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 23:32:40 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 23:29:05 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Echoplex power-up weirdness Resent-Message-ID: <"zhshzB.A.xMF.Vxkty"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1422 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 23:32:40 -0800 X-UIDL: e0aadd3a8ea55b0f28576b9ec9312110 >Kim, > >I've had my Echoplex for about a week now, and just about everytime I >turn it on, the front panel lights will flicker about in a random manner. > If I turn it on and off three or four times, it's fine. Any ideas? > >Travis Hartnett I don't know, it sounds a bit sick. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Dec 17 09:56:19 1996 >From kflint Tue Dec 17 08:09:54 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0va25Z-0001Nz-00; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 08:09:53 -0800 Message-ID: From: John Ott To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: KC video: live in japan, oct. 95 Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 09:58:45 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 Encoding: 58 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"WLUhT.A.7AB.4Rsty"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1423 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 08:09:53 -0800 X-UIDL: eaed8ca88b832298bcb2b2436b7bdb96 >>---------- >From: Dan Howarth >Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 1996 1:43 AM >To: John_Ott@ATK.COM >Cc: loopers-delight@annihilist.com >Subject: KC video: live in japan, oct. 95 > >anybody else have this yet? i've watched it twice in the last 20 hours... >i'm sorry that i missed them on the tour, but this seems to make up for >it. there's great footage of everyone (except TG, in my opinion not >enough) and it's very well patched together - except for very annoying >camera shaking and panning (i think it was an attempt to be weird. just >kinda shook up my stomach a little - and being the worldest evil-est >band and slightly drunk... well, the camera didn't need to shake that >much - they're hard enough to follow as it is). >there's some neat footage of fripp dialing his effects during B'Boom, too. >very prominent TC 2290s and Eventide equipment in his main rack. > >there's not much of a comparison between the stick and the warr guitar (of >which TG plays only the 8 string model) in the video. there is an >interesting version of the stick improv/duet from the live album, but the >processing of each was unclear for comparison value. < Got this a few weeks ago myself (also the Fripp/Sylvian laserdisc) from Possible Productions. The video was originally shot for a Japanese TV show. Wierd video is from Director of the TV Show. What struck me as weird was Belew's guitars. Saw KC twice (Warner june 95 DC as last summer at merriweather Post MD) and Adrian had three Fender Custom Shop Strats both shows. Yet in the Video he has just the one Strat and Plays a Les Paul (one of Fripp's Tokai Les Paul copys?) and a Parker Fly. He mentioned in Guitar Player (June 95 KC feature) that he really likes the Fly but would be using the Custom Shop Strats on Tour. Did some get lost or damaged in shipping? >I'll have to post to ET to see if anyone knows the story behind this. The Fripp Sylvian disc is much better. The director was very good at getting the soloist on film. Cool interplay between Micheal Brook and Fripp at one point. I had the Damage CD (same tour different shows) and had a some Ideas as to who played what. The video straighted that out. (I was right about 80% but was dead wrong on one solo that I was sure was Trey Gunn (just like something on the Third Star) only to find Fripp playing it in the Video, oh well they both use Eventides) peace John From ???@??? Wed Dec 18 01:13:34 1996 >From kflint Tue Dec 17 11:51:31 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0va5Y1-0006KN-00; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 11:51:29 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 11:18:28 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Ridiculous Echoprice & software upgrade Resent-Message-ID: <"3NDyHC.A.zjF.fhvty"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1424 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 11:51:29 -0800 X-UIDL: d46af1243995c4496656206b30763d22 >Pass me the vasoline; if I have to get screwed, at least LET IT FEEL >GOOD! Yeah, this price increase pretty much excludes me from getting a plex, and there's just no way I can get one in the next month, Damn. The worst part of this is that a friend is loaning me his 'plex for a couple of weeks to try it out, now I'll get hooked on it, and do something stupid with my credit card... on another subject, does anyone have any experience with the cheapo samplers that Roland, Yamaha, and (I think) Akai are coming out with? I'm putting together a portable MIDI/looping rig for touring, based around a Roland mc-303 drum machine/sequencer, an SCI 6-trak analog synth, and the Jamman. LXP-5 and an ancient ADA 2-second delay. I have 1 more input available, and these tiny samplers sound like they'd fit in the gig-bag, and my currently constrained budget. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Wed Dec 18 01:13:42 1996 >From kflint Tue Dec 17 12:34:07 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0va6DG-00015S-00; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 12:34:06 -0800 Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 15:29:22 -0500 (EST) From: VanEyck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"5fJgaC.A.Yu.rKwty"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Unidentified subject! Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1425 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 12:34:06 -0800 X-UIDL: 2a83d79dc3171ac45192174fdf3d6877 Hi, I am new to the mailing list. I noticed in the archive that there have been some problems with the "new" Vortex units from Guitar Centre. What is the final word? Are the units faulty? I am considering ordering one if they are still available, but as I am in Canada they may not warranty the unit. Does anyone know if they are still available? What is the best way to contact Guitar Centre? For what it's worth as an introduction, I am a big fan of Gary Lucas - any others out there? and I really dig the Digitech PDS series units as well as the 16 Second of course. I usually inhabit the sort of one man band sonic assault territory of the aforementioned Gary Lucas sometimes treading towards the Helios Creedish stuff with a huge nod to the '60s and '70s guitar gods. Pleased to meet you. TREVOR. VanEyck@interlog.com From ???@??? Wed Dec 18 01:13:45 1996 >From kflint Tue Dec 17 15:14:56 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0va8iq-0003Jo-00; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 15:14:52 -0800 Date: Tue, 17 Dec 96 15:59:07 MST Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) To: From: "Bret Moreland" Subject: re:Vortex problems? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"JWhUWD.A.0xC.Ahyty"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1426 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 15:14:53 -0800 X-UIDL: c9f9a659af37d9bd0f0f957d22e0fefe VanEyck wrote: I noticed in the archive that there have been some problems with the "new" Vortex units from Guitar Centre. What is the final word? Are the units faulty? ---------------------------- I just received a Vortex last week from the Hollywood Guitar Center. It is good working condition. However, it was obvious that someone else had opened this unit before me (was it a return?). The inner cardboard packaging had been torn open, and the stereo interconnect cord for the footswitches was missing. They said they would _see what they could do_ to replace the cord, which right now is nothing. They did offer to let me return the entire unit and they would send me a new Vortex, which hardly seems worthwhile for a $2 cord. At least GS has a very liberal return policy, 30 day return for full refund if you are not satisfied, if it is in the original condition. ---------------------------------------------- Does anyone know if they are still available? What is the best way to contact Guitar Centre? ------------------------- Call GS for availability. Not sure what the best way to contact them, but I called 213 874-1060 Hollywood GS to order. The other locations and phone numbers can be found at: http://www.musician.com/location/location.html bret From ???@??? Wed Dec 18 01:13:49 1996 >From kflint Tue Dec 17 15:49:47 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0va9Ga-0005Pb-00; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 15:49:44 -0800 Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 15:38:26 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Ridiculous Echoprice: Don't give up all hope (yet) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"tjes6B.A.a1E.tCzty"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1427 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 15:49:44 -0800 X-UIDL: b8070fcb3fa44ef2ba811bbb159e77b8 True enough, Gibson's got some very suspicious logic in raising the list price on an already hard-to-market device. But keep in mind that I've never heard of an Echoplex actually being sold for the $879 which was the original list price, or the $799 which was the previous list price according to an insurance quote I obtained a couple of months ago. So stores are still liable to sell for somewhat less than the list. But of course, the higher new list price coupled with the low market for the device isn't a good combination. I'm feeling luckier and luckier that I managed to snag the thing for $400 a year ago... --Andre From ???@??? Wed Dec 18 01:13:50 1996 >From kflint Tue Dec 17 15:54:40 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0va9LL-0005mN-00; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 15:54:39 -0800 Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 15:45:46 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: re:Vortex problems? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"FjeEqD.A.UTF.iJzty"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1428 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 15:54:39 -0800 X-UIDL: 53dda898d62e7a1c030d8079b6a8107c On Tue, 17 Dec 1996, Bret Moreland wrote: > VanEyck wrote: > > I noticed in the archive that there > have been some problems with the "new" Vortex units from Guitar Centre. > > What is the final word? Are the units faulty? > ---------------------------- > I just received a Vortex last week from the Hollywood Guitar Center. It > is good working condition. However, it was obvious that someone else had > opened this unit before me (was it a return?). The inner cardboard > packaging had been torn open, and the stereo interconnect cord for the > footswitches was missing. They said they would _see what they could do_ > to replace the cord, which right now is nothing. They did offer to let me > return the entire unit and they would send me a new Vortex, which hardly > seems worthwhile for a $2 cord. At least GS has a very liberal return > policy, 30 day return for full refund if you are not satisfied, if it is > in the original condition. Be wary that at least one or two of the European subscribers on this list have ordered Vortexes from Guitar Center, and recieved faulty units. The warranty *did not* apply in these cases; GC claimed that since the shipments had been overseas, the return policy/warranty was null and void. > ---------------------------------------------- > Does anyone know if they are still available? What is the best > way to contact Guitar Centre? > > ------------------------- Your second question in the above paragraph sounds suspiciously ripe for a punch line, which I'm unfortunately unable to conjour up right now. As for availability, I heard recently that the "absolute last-chance offer" on the Vortexes was coming up, but you should keep in mind that Guitar Center has regular "Best price of the year/One-time-only/Last chance ever deals!!!" about once every two or three weeks. Also keep in mind that even at the current steal-me sales price, the Vortex is too strange a beast to be flying out the doors. You should be able to find a GC somewhere that still has the things in stock and is all too willing to unload the units. It beats having them collect dust. (I wonder if they'd bother sending any unsold units back to Lexicon...?) --Andre From ???@??? Wed Dec 18 01:13:53 1996 >From kflint Tue Dec 17 20:18:20 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vaDSV-00056Y-00; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 20:18:19 -0800 Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 17:24:46 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199612180124.RAA28892@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <199612150825.AAA01243@dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com> Subject: Ridiculous Echoprice Resent-Message-ID: <"51PzlC.A.SoE.9-2ty"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1429 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 20:18:19 -0800 X-UIDL: 36d208334527e40fd4bacc138b16e7dc James E Williamson writes: > I just wanted to annouce that the marketing geniuses at GMI, the >parent company of Gibson and Oberheim, have decided once again, in >their infinite wisdom, to raise the price of the Echoplex yet again, OK, folks. This has finally gotten my attention. Where do I get one cheap? (I know this has come up again and again, but I was putting it off) From ???@??? Wed Dec 18 01:13:55 1996 >From kflint Tue Dec 17 20:35:07 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vaDik-0005v8-00; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 20:35:06 -0800 Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 23:33:45 -0500 (EST) From: JOHNPOLLOCK@delphi.com Subject: Re: Ridiculous Echoprice & software To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Message-id: <01ID4USCC9EQ8Y5W31@delphi.com> X-VMS-To: INTERNET"Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Resent-Message-ID: <"c3WvhB.A.NfF.3Q3ty"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1430 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 20:35:06 -0800 X-UIDL: dd71025fd9070bb9545a28dbcf97ce61 Dave Trenkel wrote, in part, >on another subject, does anyone have any experience with the cheapo >samplers that Roland, Yamaha, and (I think) Akai are coming out with? Or with DJ mixers? From catalog listings, I've noticed that quite a few of these include sampling capability. I'm sure they don't loop, in the sense of overdubbing, but some offer fairly long delay times. It seems like they might offer fairly good bang for the buck, by combining a stereo line mixer, one or two mic preamps, and the delay. The question is, can the hardware be hacked to allow footswitch control of the sampling functions? John (johnpollock@delphi.com) Troubador Tech on the Web-- http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock/ From ???@??? Wed Dec 18 01:13:56 1996 >From kflint Tue Dec 17 21:59:34 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vaF2T-00020I-00; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 21:59:33 -0800 Message-ID: <32B795AF.35AB@ozemail.com.au> Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 16:56:47 +1000 From: aconolan Reply-To: aconolan@ozemail.com.au X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: unsubscribe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"UK1YxC.A.eyB.0f4ty"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1431 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 21:59:33 -0800 X-UIDL: 868255a241818d2c9a1866dc5baa3140 Dear Loopers, Can I please unsubscribe, I am getting a ridiculous amount of unwanted e-mail. Thanks, Michael Conolan From ???@??? Wed Dec 18 01:14:03 1996 >From kflint Tue Dec 17 23:25:13 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vaGNM-0005bx-00; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 23:25:12 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 05:29:27 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Looping vs delay effects Resent-Message-ID: <"9WnxuC.A.RJF._v5ty"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1432 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 23:25:12 -0800 X-UIDL: 7a48d21546cd9f5bc37353ddf4f45af1 >This may have been discussed before, but I hear people mentioning things >like "if it had more delay, I wouldn't need a JamMan". IMHO, there is no >comparison between the delay you get on an effects unit, no matter how much >delay, and a dedicated looping device like JamMan or EchoPlex wherein the >player controls the loop start and stop point and *the material* that is >looped. There may be looping occuring in the delay effect but it doesn't >have the flexibility for defining the *exact* loop one wants, esp regards >what should be recorded and what should pass the delay line. This can be >set up in patches or using real time control, but at some cost to >spontaneity, as each tempo or phrase length would demand a different tweak. > >Though with that said, I love the happy "accidents" that happen playing >with crossfading delays in the Vortex and using midi controllers to change >feedback and delay time etc. in (my case) the Quadraverb 2. > >This is said to hear what others have to say on this, more than my having a >strong opinion on the matter :-) Beautyfull clarification! You help me to see a forest and not just trees. We have to say that some of these control functions are awailable on some delays, like tempo tap, external feedback control, freeze, sound on sound (even multiply, by hand on the t.c.). I built multiply into the PCM 42 and thought about creating an "external Reset state" for it... But still, most of the "popular" loop music has been done with the limitations of the delay or starting out from the resulting music. I guess thats what I meant when I felt we had to go "beyond Fripp" in looping - get out of "delaying". Beyond maybe is rather understood as "farther in the same direction", while I meant musical broadening. Is that what you meant, too, Jon? From ???@??? Wed Dec 18 01:14:04 1996 >From kflint Tue Dec 17 23:25:28 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vaGNZ-0005d0-00; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 23:25:25 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 05:29:44 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Fripp and the Plex Resent-Message-ID: <"npnt5.A.BLF.Rw5ty"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1433 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 23:25:25 -0800 X-UIDL: bfd4dd3637457c8c4f35fc6987fdb7c1 >I think King Crimson's music serves as a useful bridge between "normal" >rock music and the wild n' woolly world of experimental and free-improvised >music for people who are used to more accessible rock, are willing to >be a little daring, but aren't quite ready yet for, say, Fred Frith, >Hans Reichel, Derek Bailey, Jim O' Rourke, Dr. Nerve,etc. well said, Paolo I remember Fripp saying in an interview or so, that he had to close down Crimson because it was going *comercial* - this was after "Red" had been released... %-/ A few years later he reopened with "even more" comercial sound ;-) I admired it and still do. Matthias From ???@??? Wed Dec 18 04:00:43 1996 >From kflint Wed Dec 18 01:58:31 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vaIlY-0002a6-00; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 01:58:20 -0800 Message-Id: <28132.199612180957@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 09:57:20 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Ed Alleyne-Johnson Resent-Message-ID: <"XBqjKC.A.zXC.w_7ty"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1434 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 01:58:20 -0800 X-UIDL: 051cf8aa1af3d6ced81c0c5db2466933 A while back I touted the greatness of Ed Alleyne-Johnson, and promised a review. Unfortunately I've not had time to listen to it recently so I don't feel I could do it justice. So it would probably be best (and most objective) if I tape the CD and send it to someone. Basically the guy plays baroque (Bach?) influenced counterpoint/rhythm/percussive stuff on solo violin and pedalboard, with some arabic and Hendrixian influences. I don't know who to send this to - if everyone can sort it out, decide among yourselves and let me know. I really only have time to make one copy, though. Maybe a tape tree would work. The album contains a lot of structured, non-improvised loops - is this what we need "beyond Fripp"? Structure, rather than improv? Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Everything in moderation, including moderation" (Zen Proverb) From ???@??? Wed Dec 18 09:52:55 1996 >From kflint Wed Dec 18 05:24:13 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vaLym-0003rT-00; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 05:24:12 -0800 Date: 18 Dec 96 08:19:49 EST From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: Beyond Fripp Message-ID: <961218131948_74074.1316_GHQ64-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"qiWhwD.A.jhD.Z_-ty"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1435 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 05:24:12 -0800 X-UIDL: 127bca98f86f29c0b209b7623a05c96d Matthias writes: >I guess thats what I meant when I felt we had to go "beyond Fripp" in >looping - get out of "delaying". Beyond maybe is rather understood as >"farther in the same direction", while I meant musical broadening. >Is that what you meant, too, Jon? Certainly, I was referring to musical broadening with regards to Fripp. I think that there's so much more that can be done with delays/loopage than he's put forth. Witness how far Torn has taken things, for example. I'm not sure what you mean by "getting out of delaying". The delay (altered or not; JamMan/Echoplex, Vortex, PCM 42, Midiverb, computer software, whatever) is the primary instrument for all of us loopists, though other pieces are also utilized. Michaels adds: >The album contains a lot of structured, non-improvised loops - is this >what we need "beyond Fripp"? Structure, rather than improv? Not necessarily. Improvisation (at it's best) is where the real spirit of the musician comes through. On the other hand, some structure can be very useful, if for nothing else than to point in a direction. Personally, I find it most interesting when both structure and improv are utilized to create a single magnificent entity. Clarification (I hope): I think what I was trying to say is that I see a whole range a possibilities within "looping" that are not touched upon in Fripp's work: Dynamics (mentioned earlier); rhythmic possibilities; letting go on top of the loopage (I really love Fripp's solos, and would greatly enjoy hearing him rip on top of some of his soundscapes); use of various sound sources (different guitar tones-fuzzed or not or synthed or slide or ebow or scraped strings or whatever; adding vox; adding odd noises; etc); harmonic movement, etc. So many options not yet taken within his work. Also a small point: when I speak of Loopage, I'm talking also about delays which do not "loop", but do receiculate as a part of the music. From what I've heard, many of the soundscape pieces aren't loops but many different long delay patterns. Anyone who has heard "What Means Solid, Traveller?" by David Torn should have a sense of how far looping can be taken. After all,the whole record is essentially a series of loops. Some were PCM 42, some were JamMan, and some were computer-derived. But none of it sounds stale. This album is very abrasive (intentionally), but is a masterwork in the field of looping. And there are more examples: Check out Robby Aceto's "Code" for some more pop-oriented looping ideas (Robby is an occasional contributor to this group); Andre (The Man Himself) sent me a tape that has some very interesting work, very strong ideas--The Guitar Player write-up was well deserved. Also, coming in the spring, I'll have a new CD which was entirely created on the JamMan. (Though not all the parts are now played on the Jam-beast, but that's how they started). All of these recordings speak to several of the issues I've raised. (And I'm sure there are more, but I've rambled enough already...) BTW--This is in no way intended to dis Mr. Fripp. I have the highest regard for his work throughout the years, and he's one of only a handful of musicians who have stuck to their guns in the face of commercial pressure and continued to make interesting and provocative music. It's just that I think he could do more in the looping arena. And I sincerely hope that he will. Later, Jon From ???@??? Thu Dec 19 04:52:29 1996 >From kflint Wed Dec 18 12:04:48 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vaSER-0007Xg-00; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 12:04:47 -0800 Message-Id: <199612182002.MAA35984@scv1.apple.com> Subject: Re: Echoplex power-up weirdness Date: Wed, 18 Dec 96 14:03:02 -0000 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"JWLhoC.A.l6G.A3Euy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1436 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 12:04:47 -0800 X-UIDL: 3044811e8615c5218d8fb64aea105ec4 >>Kim, >> >>I've had my Echoplex for about a week now, and just about everytime I >>turn it on, the front panel lights will flicker about in a random manner. >> If I turn it on and off three or four times, it's fine. Any ideas? >> >>Travis Hartnett > >I don't know, it sounds a bit sick. > >kim Groan. I'm loathe to send it for service, given what I've heard about Oberheim's service department. Any advice on arm-twisting to get it done quickly (two weeks or less)? Travis From ???@??? Thu Dec 19 04:52:38 1996 >From kflint Wed Dec 18 14:16:10 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vaUHZ-0007Or-00; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 14:16:09 -0800 Message-Id: <199612182215.OAA38538@scv2.apple.com> Subject: Re: Echoplex power-up weirdness Date: Wed, 18 Dec 96 16:15:26 -0000 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"j4CIJD.A.M0G.HzGuy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1438 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 14:16:09 -0800 X-UIDL: 00a1de399b19580ad4a9bf215842ed40 >What about exchanging the unit for a different (ideally healthy) one from >the place you purchased from? That'd be a lot safer than sending it to >Oberheim, I'd wager. Sadly, I've already sent in the warranty card to Oberheim, and Banana's won't accept an exchange without the warranty card. Travis Hartnett From ???@??? Thu Dec 19 04:52:44 1996 >From kflint Wed Dec 18 14:51:22 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vaUpd-0001i1-00; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 14:51:21 -0800 Message-Id: <199612182249.OAA75798@scv1.apple.com> Subject: Re: Echoplex power-up weirdness Date: Wed, 18 Dec 96 16:49:42 -0000 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"C_Prm.A.zcB.KTHuy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1442 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 14:51:21 -0800 X-UIDL: ffe81c56328d65f3a1e57facb31b0c4b >Perhaps you could get Oberheim to contact Banana's to confirm that the >warranty is in place? I can give you the phone number/e-mail of the guys >in charge at Oberheim if you don't already have it, or you could try to >arrange for Banana's to contact them. (I know, this is all pretty >wishful thinking, but it sure beats trying to nurse a glitchy unit). > >--Andre I think I'll wait for a while. Banana's has a 30 day policy, and I've had the unit since last Monday (I believe I sent the warranty card in on Tuesday). The thing works fine once it's "warmed up", and it doesn't happen everytime. Travis Hartnett From ???@??? Thu Dec 19 04:52:54 1996 >From kflint Wed Dec 18 15:53:00 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vaVnG-0005UW-00; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 15:52:58 -0800 Message-Id: <199612182351.PAA09764@scv2.apple.com> Subject: Re:Beyond Fripp (long) Date: Wed, 18 Dec 96 17:52:10 -0000 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"BrNZJD.A.TAF.tNIuy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1443 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 15:52:58 -0800 X-UIDL: b980ad58deb5027e8b0c8e7c006d64e7 As far as some people's expressed concern on the "static" nature of Fripp's looping work, I think it's a somewhat unavoidable part of the process he uses in creating the loops. A lot of Torn's work is edited in the studio, which gives a lot more flexibility in arrangement and dynamics. Given that most people have only one loop device in their rig, you're going to be limited to adding information into the loop. Even if you've got an Echoplex, the Undo feature isn't going to allow you introduce a radical, appealing change to what you're doing. It just lets you remove the last layer or two, depending on how much memory you've got installed. That's not much of a compositional manuever, and unless you've specifically planned an overdub to be removed for effect, I doubt that Undo really functions as other than a "Whoops!" button for most people. I avoid using it because maybe one in 20 loops strike me as fatally flawed. Too often I've had started something and either made a mistake or what appeared to be a mistake, and found five minutes later that I've mutated it into something beautiful. That's part of my concept, and it may be a personal preference, but from what I've read of Fripp's approach, it also includes the acceptance of hazard as a crucial part of the piece. I prefer to spray information around for the first few minutes without thinking about it too much, and then see what seems like a good idea. Several people have stated that they prefer "1999" and/or "Radiophonics" to "Blessing of Tears" (for those of you not familiar with the texture of those records, the first two are more dissonant and angular, although both have streches of more "pretty" music, whereas "Blessing" is mournfully beautiful all the way through, or, droningly facile, depending on your viewpoint). For general listening, I prefer "Blessing" because it's more tranquil. If I put on "1999" or "Radiophonics" while I'm at work, even quietly, people start to ask what I'm listening to, in a tone that suggests they hope it's nearly over. They're spicier textures, much like "Thrakattak" (again for the unfamiliar, an hour-long release of group improvisations which often sounds like horror-film music right before the bogeyman jumps out of the shadows), which I love, but I'm not going to put it on everyday. It's like listening to Ligeti--it's uneasy listening, and few people can listen to it for long without getting a little edgy. Someone said that "Blessing" was a fairly easy texture to imitate, and I'd agree, but I don't find either "1999" or "Radiophonics" difficult to imitate. Once you're familiar with the form, it's not difficult to imitate the "generic" disturbed Frippscape (even going back to Eno/Fripp's "Index of Metals"). That's not the point. Fripp has spoken repeatedly of how music truly occurs in the interaction between the audience and the performer, and listening to recorded Frippertronics or Soundscapes is very different from experiencing it in person, even if it "sounds" the same. Most people don't get a chance to attend a Soundscapes show, and fortunately the CD's are available. With Frippertronics, only the backing tracks were released. The shows that "Let The Power Fall" were drawn from consisted of material similiar to the album tracks with Fripp soloing in real time on top. There are bootlegs of this, but Fripp has only released a few examples of the final product. Despite that, I think there's a lot of value in the backing-loop tracks. Other looping artists, such as David Torn, Michael Brook and Steve Tibbets, work primarily in a studio context. Loops are used to build tracks upon, but it's not the same sort of high-wire act that live improvised looping creates. You gain control of dynamics and structure, and perhaps lose on the magic of the moment. Understand that I'm not knocking Torn/Brook/Tibbets, I've got and love all their stuff, but it's a different path. The live Brook that I've heard is based on playing with pre-recorded backing tracks. I'm not sure if Tibbets has ever really toured, and Torn probably won't doing much touring in the future, due to health and the economics of the road. Our loss. I don't think it's possible to have improvised looping ever match the shifting dynamics of edited studio work. Even if you had multiple loops available to you (say four 32 second loops) with the ability to mix them in and out, how well could you keep track of what's going on, and how good of a job could you do, in real-time, towards organizing it into a structured piece? It's a noble goal, but in the same way that you can't improvise a concerto, I don't think it's possible to whip up a coherent piece in public. I wasn't attracted to looping so that I could cut-and-paste instrumental songs on the fly--I wanted to chase longer forms and textures, in a raga-esque manner. Going back to Fripp's use of loops, it doesn't show up much in his studio work, except as what I think of as "background fairy dust". There a few notable exceptions--the version of "Here Comes The Flood" on Exposure comes to mind, but even then I think he had ten minutes of Frippertronics and stuck Peter Gabriel's piano/voice performance on top, with a spoken word section from John Bennett, and then went to work editing everything together. Indeed, the bulk of Fripp guest appearances in the last few years have been of the background-Soundscapes variety, and some people have speculated that he just sends the interested party some tapes and lets them pick through to find what might be useful to them. I'm not saying this is a bad idea. Travis Hartnett From ???@??? Thu Dec 19 04:52:36 1996 >From kflint Wed Dec 18 14:00:35 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vaU2S-0006Rw-00; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 14:00:32 -0800 Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 13:49:20 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Echoplex power-up weirdness In-Reply-To: <199612182002.MAA35984@scv1.apple.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"8P8yU.A.i3F.GjGuy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1437 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 14:00:32 -0800 X-UIDL: 58afa0ea284dece282f75aa84d5f6380 On Wed, 18 Dec 1996, T.W. Hartnett wrote: > >>I've had my Echoplex for about a week now, and just about everytime I > >>turn it on, the front panel lights will flicker about in a random manner. > >> If I turn it on and off three or four times, it's fine. Any ideas? > > > >I don't know, it sounds a bit sick. > > Groan. I'm loathe to send it for service, given what I've heard about > Oberheim's service department. Any advice on arm-twisting to get it done > quickly (two weeks or less)? What about exchanging the unit for a different (ideally healthy) one from the place you purchased from? That'd be a lot safer than sending it to Oberheim, I'd wager. Incidentally, I noticed a sporadic wierdness upon power-up for the first two or three months that I owned my Plex; about once every ten or twenty times it'd start getting spastic when I switched it on. Since those first two or three months, I haven't encountered the problem since. --Andre From ???@??? Thu Dec 19 04:52:41 1996 >From kflint Wed Dec 18 14:35:58 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vaUai-0000p6-00; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 14:35:56 -0800 Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 14:25:02 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Beyond Fripp (long) In-Reply-To: <961218131948_74074.1316_GHQ64-1@CompuServe.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"jkANh.A.mk.kEHuy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1440 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 14:35:56 -0800 X-UIDL: 7bdea2d54545f17864df1f4f8cbac297 All of the points on the "Beyond Fripp" topic are well-considered and quite valid. One thing that I would have to say is that Fripp is the first person I'm aware of who was using real-time looping in a live performance context. I know he didn't invent reel-to-reel tape loops, or any other mechanical looping principle. But I haven't heard of anyone previous to him who actually took the gear out into the "real world" and performed live concerts using this sort of hardware. (If there is indeed historical prescedent for this before Fripp, please feel free to correct me). For that alone, Fripp is sort of a Godfather to any live loopists, particularly those coming from a rock-oriented background. A couple of things Jon mentioned piqued my interest: > Clarification (I hope): I think what I was trying to say is that I see a whole > range a possibilities within "looping" that are not touched upon in Fripp's > work: Dynamics (mentioned earlier); rhythmic possibilities; letting go on top of > the loopage (I really love Fripp's solos, and would greatly enjoy hearing him > rip on top of some of his soundscapes); use of various sound sources (different > guitar tones-fuzzed or not or synthed or slide or ebow or scraped strings or > whatever; adding vox; adding odd noises; etc); harmonic movement, etc. So many > options not yet taken within his work. This is very true; one thing about Fripp's Soundscaping work is that there's very little in the sound of the stuff to suggest that there's a guitar at work, since guitar synth seems to be the primary sound source for these particular endeavors. (Compare that to someone like Torn, whose loops almost always have a certain guitaristic accent to their sound). As far as the soundscape releases that have cropped up over the last couple of years, I have mixed feelings. _1999_ impressed me greatly, and demonstrated quite a range of textures and approaches (including a very rhythmic approach on the second piece). _A Blessing Of Tears_, on the other hand, fails to reach me; I have to second Jon's comments about it being homogenous and fairly non-developmental. (It's also a fairly easy type of sound to imitate, I feel.) I skimmed through bits of _Radiophonics_ and found it more to my liking, but haven't yet plopped down the cash for it. (There's a four-CD Soundscapes boxed set that's due to be released sometime soon by the American branch of Fripp's label, so I'll probably wait for that, especially since the fourth volume of the current Soundscapes CD series will only be available as a part of that box. Sounds like Fripp is getting more and more into his role as record company mogul... But that's another thread altogether). Incidentally, the frist time I saw Crimson, over the summer of 1995, the soundscape intro to "B'boom" that Fripp pulled off made my hair stand on end. It was abstract, angular, and very, very eerie. I wish I could get a recording of just that bit... > Also a small point: when I speak of > Loopage, I'm talking also about delays which do not "loop", but do receiculate > as a part of the music. From what I've heard, many of the soundscape pieces > aren't loops but many different long delay patterns. Uh oh, I sense a semantics war approaching... :} Should we make a distintion between "loops" in the sense of single overdubbed lines from a JamMan, Echoplex, or similar device, as opposed to having several delay units running individual loops of differing lengths? > Anyone who has heard "What Means Solid, Traveller?" by David Torn should have a > sense of how far looping can be taken. After all,the whole record is essentially > a series of loops. Some were PCM 42, some were JamMan, and some were > computer-derived. But none of it sounds stale. This album is very abrasive > (intentionally), but is a masterwork in the field of looping. Very true. It's several steps beyond the applications heard of "Tripping Over God," which was based largely around a formula of bringing in a rubato loop, soloing over it, then fading the piece out. I don't mean that as a slam against Torn at all, because there's some breathtaking music that he squeezes out of that "formula," but it does become a somewhat predictable pattern after a while (though I can tell that on some of those pieces, there is a bit of studio editing/compiling going on). "Traveller," on the other hand, it several steps beyond that, althogh my impression is that a large amount of that came from a cut-and-paste approach on a hard disk recorder, which was applied to both loops and to more "straight" guitar and drum parts. It's important to keep that sort of distinction in mind; when comparing "Traveller" or "Tripping" to the Soundscapes discs, bear in mind that we're comparing studio-assembled multitracked projects to live solo improvisations (although there is minor post-performance editing on some of the Soundscape pieces, generally for length.) When Torn staged his solo tour in support of "Tripping" (and Trilok Gurtu), many of the songs were accompanied by DAT backing tracks or drum machines. Fripp's approach to looping has always been based upon his oft-quoted adage of "making a lot of noise with one guitar," and his work with the technique still seems based first and foremost upon live solo improv. (BTW, thanks very much for your kind words regarding my tape, Jon.) > BTW--This is in no way intended to dis Mr. Fripp. I have the highest regard for > his work throughout the years, and he's one of only a handful of musicians who > have stuck to their guns in the face of commercial pressure and continued to > make interesting and provocative music. It's just that I think he could do more > in the looping arena. And I sincerely hope that he will. It's funny, but I've started to think of certain pieces as being in the vein of what I call a "classical loop piece," referring to a single loop being set up on one delay or sample-based unit which is then overdubbed upon and let to play on. The aforementioned Torn pieces on "Tripping" would fall into that category, as would pretty much anything done on a non-loop-specific unit (which I guess includes everything except for one of the Big Three) or a tape-based system, including the Frippertronics phase of Fripp's work. There are a lot more possibilities out there today, particularly in the realm of step-time digital assembly, but also in terms of real-time work. The Echoplex has all sorts of possibilities for real-time cut-and-paste work with the multiply and insert functions, which I'll admit I still haven't delved into as deeply as I should have. It's easy to get caught up in the classical looping approach, which may be one reason why Fripp seems to stick to it for his work to this day. Wow, that's a long post. Sorry to clog so much bandwidth, and thanks for listening to me think. 'Till next time, --Andre P.S. On a not unrelated note, I sent e-mail to the administrators at Elephant Talk, the Fripp/Crimson digest and Web site, asking that a link to Looper's Delight be set up in recognition of the fairly regular appearance of posts inquring as to the nature of exactly how Frippertronics works (there was yet another one in the current edition). From ???@??? Thu Dec 19 04:52:43 1996 >From kflint Wed Dec 18 14:36:58 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vaUbh-0000u2-00; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 14:36:57 -0800 Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 14:26:54 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Echoplex power-up weirdness In-Reply-To: <199612182215.OAA38538@scv2.apple.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Vlp2nC.A.rs.TGHuy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1441 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 14:36:57 -0800 X-UIDL: f020d1d5af0dfec24aa077038dd0f484 On Wed, 18 Dec 1996, T.W. Hartnett wrote: > >What about exchanging the unit for a different (ideally healthy) one from > >the place you purchased from? That'd be a lot safer than sending it to > >Oberheim, I'd wager. > > Sadly, I've already sent in the warranty card to Oberheim, and Banana's > won't accept an exchange without the warranty card. Perhaps you could get Oberheim to contact Banana's to confirm that the warranty is in place? I can give you the phone number/e-mail of the guys in charge at Oberheim if you don't already have it, or you could try to arrange for Banana's to contact them. (I know, this is all pretty wishful thinking, but it sure beats trying to nurse a glitchy unit). --Andre From ???@??? Thu Dec 19 04:52:39 1996 >From kflint Wed Dec 18 14:25:41 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vaUQl-0000C1-00; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 14:25:39 -0800 From: Kevin Simonson Message-Id: <199612182227.AA233188023@eagle.uis.edu> Subject: Pocket Rock-it 16s sampler... To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 16:27:03 -0700 (CST) In-Reply-To: <199612182215.OAA38538@scv2.apple.com> from "T.W. Hartnett" at Dec 18, 96 04:15:26 pm Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"8ZtizD.A.i.X7Guy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1439 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 14:25:39 -0800 X-UIDL: e8513fd48f64135747044513b8ec7846 Hello all.. 'Just had an experience trying out the 'Pocket Rockit' 16 second 'sampled analog' recorder. By reading the specs, it looks like an ideal poor man's 16 second delay (at 159$ !!). However, the unit does not play and record simultaneously, and the record function stops recording when the 16 second buffer is filled. Dashed my hopes.. -- Kevin Simonson * AS/400 Application Development Team University of Illinois-Springfield * Norwest Mortgage, Inc. Computer Science, et al. * Springfield, IL simonson@eagle.uis.edu * From ???@??? Thu Dec 19 04:52:57 1996 >From kflint Wed Dec 18 16:01:25 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vaVvP-00063J-00; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 16:01:23 -0800 Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 15:58:32 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199612182358.PAA17887@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: Unidentified subject! Resent-Message-ID: <"f9O2iB.A.kjF.pVIuy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1444 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 16:01:23 -0800 X-UIDL: 7a564c9b29f3207a0b2c238d3a116200 VanEyck writes: > I am new to the mailing list. I noticed in the archive that there >have been some problems with the "new" Vortex units from Guitar Centre. > > What is the final word? Are the units faulty? Not all of them: mine seems just fine, although I haven't spent that much time with it (yet). From ???@??? Thu Dec 19 04:52:59 1996 >From kflint Wed Dec 18 16:46:20 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vaWcs-0000tJ-00; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 16:46:18 -0800 From: DAVID_MITCHELL@HP-Australia-om1.om.hp.com X-Openmail-Hops: 1 Date: Thu, 19 Dec 96 11:32:58 +1100 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199612182351.PAA09764@scv2.apple.com> Subject: Re:Beyond Fripp (long) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="Re:Beyond" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-F4kg.A.1t.CAJuy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1445 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 16:46:18 -0800 X-UIDL: 33177ff75cd28569bb0436045edd5caf > Indeed, the bulk of Fripp guest appearances in the last few > years have been of the background-Soundscapes variety, and some people > have speculated that he just sends the interested party some tapes and > lets them pick through to find what might be useful to them. I read in one of the UK magazines (Future Music?) that this is exactly what happened: Fripp was asked to "do his stuff" on a particular recording, and his response was to send in some tapes with a "Choose whatever you want" covering note. This article was part of an interview with the artist concerned, so it's pretty much a 1st hand account. Dave Mitchell From ???@??? Thu Dec 19 04:53:01 1996 >From kflint Wed Dec 18 16:57:28 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vaWnc-0001bB-00; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 16:57:24 -0800 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 20:00:16 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: RE: KC video: live in japan, oct. 95 Resent-Message-ID: <"DYMgQ.A.lVB.0JJuy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1446 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 16:57:24 -0800 X-UIDL: e35d159ad1f17b3625a0f33554750540 >>>---------- >>From: Dan Howarth >>Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 1996 1:43 AM >>To: John_Ott@ATK.COM >>Cc: loopers-delight@annihilist.com >>Subject: KC video: live in japan, oct. 95 >> >> anyone know the availability of the Sylvian videodisk ... where can it be had? anybody else have this yet? i've watched it twice in the last 20 hours... >>i'm sorry that i missed them on the tour, but this seems to make up for >>it. there's great footage of everyone (except TG, in my opinion not >>enough) and it's very well patched together - except for very annoying >>camera shaking and panning (i think it was an attempt to be weird. just >>kinda shook up my stomach a little - and being the worldest evil-est >>band and slightly drunk... well, the camera didn't need to shake that >>much - they're hard enough to follow as it is). >>there's some neat footage of fripp dialing his effects during B'Boom, too. >>very prominent TC 2290s and Eventide equipment in his main rack. >> >>there's not much of a comparison between the stick and the warr guitar (of >>which TG plays only the 8 string model) in the video. there is an >>interesting version of the stick improv/duet from the live album, but the >>processing of each was unclear for comparison value. >< > >Got this a few weeks ago myself (also the Fripp/Sylvian laserdisc) from >Possible Productions. The video was originally shot for a Japanese >TV show. Wierd video is from Director of the TV Show. > >What struck me as weird was Belew's guitars. Saw KC twice >(Warner june 95 DC as last summer at merriweather Post MD) >and Adrian had three Fender Custom Shop Strats both shows. >Yet in the Video he has just the one Strat and Plays a Les Paul >(one of Fripp's Tokai Les Paul copys?) and a Parker Fly. He mentioned >in Guitar Player (June 95 KC feature) that he really likes the Fly >but would be using the Custom Shop Strats on Tour. >Did some get lost or damaged in shipping? > >>I'll have to post to ET to see if anyone knows the story behind this. > > The Fripp Sylvian disc is much better. The director was very good > at getting the soloist on film. Cool interplay between Micheal >Brook and > Fripp at one point. I had the Damage CD (same tour different >shows) > and had a some Ideas as to who played what. The video straighted >that > out. (I was right about 80% but was dead wrong on one solo that > I was sure was Trey Gunn (just like something on the Third Star) >only > to find Fripp playing it in the Video, oh well they both use >Eventides) > > peace > John From ???@??? Thu Dec 19 04:53:02 1996 >From kflint Wed Dec 18 20:26:45 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vaa4B-0003su-00; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 20:26:43 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 02:30:57 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Ed Alleyne-Johnson Resent-Message-ID: <"RrfuOB.A.liD.sOMuy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1447 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 20:26:43 -0800 X-UIDL: 77ca90247cb8c7084e59520ca0ce66c8 Michael said: >Basically Ed Alleyne-Johnson plays baroque (Bach?) influenced >counterpoint/rhythm/percussive stuff on solo violin and pedalboard, with >some arabic and Hendrixian influences. I don't know who to send this to - >if everyone can sort it out, decide among yourselves and let me know. I >really only have time to make one copy, though. Maybe a tape tree would >work. This is definitally interesting to me! But I am not a good point to let a tape tree grow (trees grow quickly here but until they reach another continent...) >The album contains a lot of structured, non-improvised loops - is this what >we need "beyond Fripp"? Structure, rather than improv? What I meant was not about improv or not, rather about dynamics. Its a bigger question even: Can structure be improvised, or is it by definition something planned? Is it structuring if I for example have phases with open feedback, building a constant carpet, and phases with less feedback, changing clima, or even rythm in the same piece? This can easily be improvised. Matthias From ???@??? Thu Dec 19 04:53:04 1996 >From kflint Wed Dec 18 23:18:36 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vackV-0003Ra-00; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 23:18:35 -0800 Date: 19 Dec 96 02:13:03 EST From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Beyond Fripp (long) Message-ID: <961219071303_100041.247_JHB66-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"-MO73.A.GID.ouOuy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1448 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 23:18:35 -0800 X-UIDL: 6057e023638138e69d38750503fdcfb8 Andre says, >One thing that I would have to say is that Fripp is the first person I'm >aware of who was using real-time looping in a live performance context. >I know he didn't invent reel-to-reel tape loops, or any other mechanical >looping principle. But I haven't heard of anyone previous to him who >actually took the gear out into the "real world" and performed live >concerts using this sort of hardware. (If there is indeed historical >prescedent for this before Fripp, please feel free to correct me). Ok, here goes, Andre: I recommend reading my "History of Looping" article on our web site - it will tell you about Terry Riley who used loops years before Fripp in many live concerts, and who probably invented this thing years before Eno experimented with it. Michael Peters private: 100041.247@compuserve.com work: mp@harold-scholz.de http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters From ???@??? Thu Dec 19 10:38:33 1996 >From kflint Thu Dec 19 05:30:43 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vaiYc-0005m0-00; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 05:30:42 -0800 Date: 19 Dec 96 08:27:03 EST From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: Beyond Fripp (long) Message-ID: <961219132703_74074.1316_GHQ76-3@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"IRTkIC.A.NXF.2MUuy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1449 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 05:30:42 -0800 X-UIDL: 6eed1cb9ccab8d39a481322aefc2f83c Andre writes: >When Torn staged his solo tour in support of "Tripping" (and Trilok >Gurtu), many of the songs were accompanied by DAT backing tracks or drum >machines. Actually, all the backing bits were loops/samples on his Roland 770 samplers, controlled by an old MIDI controller. And, much of the noise was being generated live as well. If you were close enough to see, you could tell which was which by wathing his right hand moving faders! >One thing that I would have to say is that Fripp is the first person I'm >aware of who was using real-time looping in a live performance context. I've heard that in the old days of Roxy Music (when Eno was in the band) Phil Manzanera was using a "prototype" frippertonics system live. Can't confirm this myself, but maybe someone else out there can. Travis chimes in: >Indeed, the bulk of Fripp guest appearances in the last few >years have been of the background-Soundscapes variety, and some people >have speculated that he just sends the interested party some tapes and >lets them pick through to find what might be useful to them. I'm not >saying this is a bad idea. Which is also why Torn did his Tonal Textures CD ROM (and the forthcoming Pandora's Toolbox CD ROM). He was being used in soundtracks where he had no idea (and payment for same, btw) that he was being used, because people got a hold of some dats, etc. So now he's making himself available cheap to people who are willing to fork over $100 bucks for 70 mins worth of loopage. Later, Jon From ???@??? Thu Dec 19 10:38:35 1996 >From kflint Thu Dec 19 07:27:54 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vakO1-0002DQ-00; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 07:27:53 -0800 Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 10:31:13 -0500 From: cwb@platinum.com (Clark) Message-Id: <199612191531.KAA10712@octopus.ab.platinum.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Vortex Problems X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"L67Ih.A.-7B.a5Vuy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1450 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 07:27:53 -0800 X-UIDL: 323740f47d41f92e6dda0300bad20648 I just got one from Guitar Center - Boston. I gave it a thorough workout last night and it worked fine. Its not often you find an effects unit that sounds this good on bass. The effects dont diminish the clarity of what is being played even on the most extreme effects. It is very dynamic too. On one preset it sounds like a good reverb if you play softly but if you really spank it it turns into a multi-tap delay. The grapevine is right. Snatch these things up while you can! Clark From ???@??? Thu Dec 19 10:38:39 1996 >From kflint Thu Dec 19 08:49:17 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0valej-00064o-00; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 08:49:13 -0800 Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 10:45:38 -0600 (CST) From: Dave Stagner To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: Beyond Fripp In-Reply-To: <961218131948_74074.1316_GHQ64-1@CompuServe.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"GcZE5B.A.5fF.8EXuy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1451 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 08:49:13 -0800 X-UIDL: eb63d50c11029b463b4d5e5e0238d93c Something about this particular thread makes me a little uncomfortable. It's not intended to "dis" Fripp, but that's sort of how it comes off. It seems like people are faulting Fripp for not going far enough, not being sufficiently dynamic, not being experimental enough. I don't believe an artist must continually break new ground for ever and ever. Fripp has found a formula for looping that works for him, and he practices his art within a set of self-imposed limitations. To my ears, Fripp's looping has always been oriented toward developing textures by layering simple, consistent tones, a sort of minimalist expressionism where tonal color is all-important. Dynamics, movement, and tonal variety distract the listener from the details of texture. If this is Fripp's intent, then he has nothing to gain by playing more dynamically. Saying that our work, or the work of someone who emphasizes dynamics like David Torn is "beyond Fripp" strikes me as similar to saying that Eddie Van Halen is "beyond Segovia". After all, Segovia limited himself to a classical guitar and an ancient repertoire, right? Eddie's playing is much more creative and dynamic. Please, don't compare musicians like this. It's not a competition. Respect Robert Fripp for his incomparable achievements, but don't fault him for not going where you want him to go. Damn. Now I wanna go listen to "Requiem"... -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.net */ -Charles Fort From ???@??? Thu Dec 19 11:51:49 1996 >From kflint Thu Dec 19 11:28:43 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vao93-0000w8-00; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 11:28:41 -0800 Message-Id: <24148.199612191922@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 19:22:16 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: On-guitar control? Resent-Message-ID: <"eSA1lB.A.Kc.RXZuy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1452 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 11:28:41 -0800 X-UIDL: 3b36f8ea88bb78c4f78f9260f20fe1b5 I don't have a Vortex, and my guess on the ac/dc separation might be way off, but... would it be possible to wire a guitar signal to a stereo plug, with the other tap driving the 'tex CC input? Could the signals be separtated by capacitor, eg -------------------------| |-------------- pickups, vol etc stereo to amp in -------------------------| cord |-------||----- spare pot | -------------------------| |----=======to CC i/p does this make sense? (sorry, I'm no ASCII artist either!) Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Everything in moderation, including moderation" (Zen Proverb) From ???@??? Thu Dec 19 20:05:55 1996 >From kflint Thu Dec 19 16:04:42 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vasS8-0001wV-00; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 16:04:40 -0800 Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 15:51:33 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: RE: Beyond Fripp (long) In-Reply-To: <961219071303_100041.247_JHB66-1@CompuServe.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"V9ftsC.A.elB.ecduy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1453 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 16:04:40 -0800 X-UIDL: 66d04179152b61015374a651938c8136 On 19 Dec 1996, Michael Peters wrote: > Ok, here goes, Andre: > > I recommend reading my "History of Looping" article on our web site - it will > tell you about Terry Riley who used loops years before Fripp in many live > concerts, and who probably invented this thing years before Eno experimented > with it. Thanks Michael. I had a feeling there might be something to that effect lurking in your article (which, incidentally, I had checked out shortly after it was posted, and which I enjoyed very much), but I thought I'd make the posting anyway just in case. I've just checked the article over again, and it seems that Riley was indeed using a very similar methodology, although the exact nature of the work that he describes seems more along the lines of playing and recording silently, then stopping the instrumental performance and playing back some of the saxophone, which is a different sort of beast. (Of course, I may well be in error about this...) At any rate, thanks for clearing it up, and I hope I didn't give you the impression that I was ignoring your contributions to the web page. --Andre From ???@??? Thu Dec 19 20:05:56 1996 >From kflint Thu Dec 19 16:10:40 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vasXt-0002Kb-00; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 16:10:37 -0800 Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 15:59:25 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: My credentials as such Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"3N3ET.A.mBC.5jduy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1454 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 16:10:37 -0800 X-UIDL: b7d21b969699bcbfc7e4f66fe376ea88 Hi folks -- I just wanted to mention a point which I had tried to state in my mega-post from a couple of days ago, which I have probably not sufficiently made clear. That point is that I don't claim to have any special information or insider's account of how Fripp, Torn, or any other loopers (aside from myself) do their thing, and any statements or analyses that I may make should be taken for what they are -- which are combinations of observations I've made either through listening, watching, or reading. Which is to say, my statements about Fripp and Torn's different ways of making music should not be taken as gospel, since I may be (and in some cases actually am) mistaken in my assessment of how these people do their thing. They're just my own conclusions and assumptions (and often opinions), so don't get the impression that my analysis of these procedures are factory-authorized statements from the men themselves. (Heh.) Anyway, I just wanted to make that clear, and see to it that no one runs around taking what I'm saying about either Fripp or Torn as absolute, incontrovertible fact. Now setting the hubris elimination system to maximum intensity, --Andre From ???@??? Thu Dec 19 20:05:58 1996 >From kflint Thu Dec 19 16:47:49 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vat7s-0004c7-00; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 16:47:48 -0800 Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 16:36:11 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Boomerang is at Guitar Center! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ynkW6C.A.NJE.VGeuy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1455 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 16:47:48 -0800 X-UIDL: f1eb46cfff75644197d4e11a10e0be73 I was in the Hollywood Guitar Center last night, taking a passing glance at the footpedals on display, when what should I see but a Boomerang Phrase Sampler sitting there. I gave it a fairly quick run-thru, and here are some thoughts: -- The thing is nicely laid out for live performance, and is clearly designed more for live work than studio endeavors; the pedals feel pretty substantial (definitely a step up from the Lexicon jobbies), and the addition of a foot-roller volume control and a thru-signal bypass are very clever features. There's also a selectable, three-stage input gain switch for toggling between instrument or mic level inputs. -- The controls are somewhat reminiscent of a tape recorder, as there are controls for "starting" and "stopping" the loops, as well as a "one-shot" playback feature. -- The overdub function only seems to work while the button for it is being held down; this is a fairly significant limitation in my opinion. (I didn't have access to an instruction manual, so there may be provisions for this that I'm unaware of, but the thing is pretty spartan in terms of its layout and available controls, and seems to be designed very intuitively, so I'm a bit inclined to doubt that I may have missed a possible way around this). -- The half-speed function is very cool. Unfortunately, I was only able to access it by first stopping the loop and then hitting the overdub button (which alternates as the half-speed button), and then starting the loop up again. Not exactly the most seamless procedure. Again, there may be provisions around this that I missed by not having the manual, but I doubt it. -- The reverse function is cool (as it was/is in the Echoplex) and has its own dedicated pedal. -- I didn't see any feedback control on the unit. There may have been one lurking on the back panel next to the input gain, trim, and other controls, but once again, I think I would have noticed running across it. The volume control can be used to fade a loop in or out, but there's a lot more to using feedback than simply fading in or out, and if this isn't an available factor, then that's another fairly substantial drawback. -- The sound struck me as very good. I was running a guitar (with a still-affixed, broken top string -- see, it really *was* at Guitar Center!) direct into the Boomerang, then straight out into the standard-issue Fender combo, and heard fairly little difference between the actual input signal and the looped sound. If someone's hoping to loop higher-fi sounds than an electric guitar, they should spend more time checking it out, but it seemed quite passable to me, especially given the Boomerang's obvious slant towards off-the-cuff live work. This is a very happening box; GC was selling it for somewhere around $350 (one of those year-end Holiday deals, ya see). The half-speed function is awfully cool, though I'm not sure it's $350 worth of cool for someone who already owns one of the other Big Three. There were some things, such as feedback, automatic record start, and others, that I missed from the Echoplex, and I would much rather have seen a pedal dedicated to half-speed rather than to a one-shot playback. Nevertheless, it's a must-see for anyone on this list, and if the Hollywood GC is carrying the thing, then chances are most other store sin the chain can get one in. Check one out if you get the chance, and please correct me if I'm in error regarding the limitations I cited above. (That seems to be my mantra these days... :-/ ) --Andre From ???@??? Thu Dec 19 20:06:19 1996 >From kflint Thu Dec 19 18:58:18 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vavA7-0003jZ-00; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 18:58:15 -0800 Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 21:53:10 -0500 From: Dpcoffin@aol.com Message-ID: <961219215309_841700938@emout03.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Greetings Resent-Message-ID: <"4OYT0B.A.AUD.U_fuy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1456 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 18:58:15 -0800 X-UIDL: ae5466d1359b894391f6f5a0568cf9b3 Hello, loopists...been enjoying your rantings and ravings as i struggle to locate the looper of MY dreams: stereo a MUST, expandable ram, all the other usual tricks ala Vortex, Jamman, Echoplex, AND no more than $1000...(or at least not much more...too bad I can't afford to jump on a pair of Echoplexes right now!). I keep leaning towards, then backing off the little Roland MS-1...great price and memory, but so limited...too bad. ....to that end, I called Bob Sellon, the guy who did Torn's PCM-42 tweaking (he's at 617-280-0395...not the # in the GP article...and seems to work for Lexicon) Very interesting...I was asking if the Vortex could be expanded delay-time-wise, and it seems not without the addition of another chip, for which no provision was designed in. BUT, he claimed, 1: that he may be coming out with some Jamman tweaks, and 2: that the just-out MPX from Lexicon Does have space for extra memory/chips, thanks to his insisting on it at the design stage, but no existing plans to actually use the space or expand its sampling/looping capabilities...his advice? Call Lexicon and ask for extra features. btw; My current guitar rig, for playing in my mostly quite modest home studio: Centerpiece is a VG-8, aided by a MesaB studio pre + ADA Ampulator, and a DP-4. My guitar's piezo outs go into a Vortex, and all are mixed into a little Mackie...there's some intriguing SHORT looping possibilies here, but that VG is such a pharmacopia of atmospheres that longer loops are a must Thanks for your great list! David From ???@??? Fri Dec 20 00:14:12 1996 >From kflint Thu Dec 19 23:45:26 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vaze1-0000nW-00; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 23:45:25 -0800 Message-Id: <199612201054.BAA04988@anc.ak.net> From: "Greg & Sandee West" To: Subject: Re: Beyond Fripp (long) Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 22:41:57 -0900 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"a8Y6hC.A.5o.LOkuy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1457 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 23:45:25 -0800 X-UIDL: f39db44ab9d30ac4a5f4dbfe55a691d5 Hi everyone, For one, I'm thankful that Fripp has chosen to limit his Soundscapes to the dimensions he has so far. His genius is such that he always leaves room for those he influences to make their own personal statements. If you look at the catalog of British prog-rock groups that developed from former members of KC, plus other groups or soloists he has touched through the Guitar Craft (like the California Guitar Trio). I don't see Fripps major role in modern music as that of a virtuoso performer (although he certainly qualifies as such). His main contribution is breaking down barriers or opening up new horizons and then stepping aside as others, inspired by the vistas he has revealed, blaze new trails of their own. The really amazing thing to me is his openness to what can only be termed as "revelation." His process of patiently waiting for the future to reveal itself to him (as in the double trio concept, or Frippertronics) enables him to tap inspirations that transcend technical abilities and perceived limitations of the guitar as an instrument. In my own music, as in much of the music the guitarists here perform, all owe a debt to RF's visions. But thankfully, he left much unsaid in the musical sense, leaving room for me and others to explore the alleyways of the paths he paved. Greg West/Six-String Arts P.S. If you haven't already, visit the SSA websites at http://users.aol.com/GregWest01/index.html From ???@??? Fri Dec 20 00:14:22 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 20 00:15:17 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vb06s-0001tF-00; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 00:15:14 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 06:18:24 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Beyond Fripp Resent-Message-ID: <"76KK4C.A.YmB.1pkuy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1458 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 00:15:14 -0800 X-UIDL: a1f47442ddafcc0abe4449c690da4677 Hi Dave! I knew you were going to say some nice things like those: >Something about this particular thread makes me a little >uncomfortable. It's not intended to "dis" Fripp, but that's sort of >how it comes off. It seems like people are faulting Fripp for not >going far enough, not being sufficiently dynamic, not being >experimental enough. When I said "Its time to go way beyond Fripp in terms of looping!" on Dec, 7, I was suggesting that *we* could move ahead into other directions. Fripp did his pioneer work and knows what he has to do. Later I had to admit: Beyond maybe is rather understood as "further in the same direction", while I meant musical broadening. Listening to your tape (right now), there are parts that clearly remind of Fripp and others that are different and maybe go "beyond Fripp" to use this expression for the very last time... >I don't believe an artist must continually break new ground for ever >and ever. Fripp has found a formula for looping that works for him, >and he practices his art within a set of self-imposed limitations. To >my ears, Fripp's looping has always been oriented toward developing >textures by layering simple, consistent tones, a sort of minimalist >expressionism where tonal color is all-important. Dynamics, movement, >and tonal variety distract the listener from the details of texture. Very nicely put. The limitation in this case originally was a technical one, I think. Then it turned into a style and I hope all styles live on - but I like the search for new ones. We could impose different self-limitations, like the ones that actual technology imposes, or like my rejection to study and remember themes. ... >Please, don't compare musicians like this. It's not a competition. >Respect Robert Fripp for his incomparable achievements, but don't >fault him for not going where you want him to go. Right. I learned it scool, that Beethoven went beyond Mozart but which was the bigger genious has not been said, nor meant. Its just that analyzing trip... I do not like competition at all and absolutely reject to play where "the best" wins something, but saying that there is not competition is maybe more wish than reality... You brought it to the point, my friend. I hope we can abandon it and trust each others positive intentions again :-) Matthias From ???@??? Fri Dec 20 02:07:05 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 20 00:16:54 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vb08T-0001xU-00; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 00:16:53 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 06:18:40 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Stereo Resent-Message-ID: <"qYYjaD.A.doB.Gqkuy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1459 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 00:16:53 -0800 X-UIDL: 1b13c04e9540450769feda5300f01ec6 Helo David! New breeze... : >... stereo a MUST, expandable ram, all the other >usual tricks ala Vortex, Jamman, Echoplex, AND no more than $1000...(or at >least not much more...too bad I can't afford to jump on a pair of Echoplexes >right now!). I keep leaning towards, then backing off the little Roland >MS-1...great price and memory, but so limited...too bad. Is the MS-1 stereo? What can it do? Does anyone use JamMen stereo? Is the MIDIclock enough to sync it? Two PCM 42 you can sync by simply pushing the main clock (which is not very high) from one machine to the other. But it takes some understanding. The Echoplex has a sample sync connection provided. Without syncing all sound will allways fade to the side of the "quicker" machine and mono will become strange because of the filtering the slightly unequal timing causes. I am recording with a percussionist these days and I would love to have stereo for him. Its very nice on guitar, too (especially if you are not lazy to pan different voices), but for a whole range of instruments stereo more important. I hope we can soon have a stereo machine with all the features for just 1000$. And I hope the lack of a cheap stereo solution does not hold back from looping! Matthias From ???@??? Fri Dec 20 02:07:07 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 20 00:17:34 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vb097-0001zC-00; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 00:17:33 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 06:18:47 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: On-guitar control? Resent-Message-ID: <"GvB7dD.A.spB.Pqkuy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1460 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 00:17:33 -0800 X-UIDL: b8a9845e0077ff1970bcfdcd5ac4cc55 I would like to help, but my Vortex is still with Chris :-/ So, what do you mean by ac/dc separaton and CC input? >I don't have a Vortex, and my guess on the ac/dc separation might be way >off, but... >would it be possible to wire a guitar signal to a stereo plug, with the >other tap driving the 'tex CC input? Could the signals be separtated by >capacitor, >eg I suppose the control signal is dc. You may put a cap to ground to keep the line slow and thus prevent it from sending clicks into the parallel line with the sound. Why did you put the serial cap? > >-------------------------| |-------------- >pickups, vol etc stereo to amp in >-------------------------| cord |-------||----- >spare pot | >-------------------------| |----=======to CC i/p > >does this make sense? (sorry, I'm no ASCII artist either!) > >Michael > >Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, >Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. > "Everything in moderation, including moderation" (Zen Proverb) From ???@??? Sat Dec 21 02:26:24 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 20 11:01:21 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vbAC8-0000Bm-00; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 11:01:20 -0800 Message-Id: <199612201900.LAA29028@scv2.apple.com> Subject: Re: echoplex DP in stock? Date: Fri, 20 Dec 96 13:00:38 -0000 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"XtyVuD.A.RD.eIuuy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1466 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 11:01:20 -0800 X-UIDL: 0b4f9acaaecf3b589f9c238cbd9003d1 >ANybody know >any places that have them in stock and is selling them for <= $500? I called around about two weeks ago, and everyone was doing them for $549. Travis Hartnett From ???@??? Fri Dec 20 09:30:06 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 20 07:07:13 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vb6XY-0003AT-00; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 07:07:12 -0800 Date: 20 Dec 96 10:00:31 EST From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Beyond Fripp (long) Message-ID: <961220150030_100041.247_JHB51-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"pO2c3B.A.73C.msquy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1461 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 07:07:12 -0800 X-UIDL: 52e39af523a965dc28fc37b6bba23311 > it seems that Riley was indeed using a very similar methodology, >although the exact nature of the work that he describes seems >more along the lines of playing and recording silently, then stopping the >instrumental performance and playing back some of the saxophone, >which is a different sort of beast. (Of course, I may well be in error >about this...) As far as I understood he just did this when during his all-night concerts, he needed to have a break and didn't want to interrupt his spaced-out (or asleep) audience. Many years ago, I saw 2 or 3 evening concerts and he played along with his delay all the time, although at that time I had no clear idea of what he was exactly doing. >I hope I didn't give you the impression that I was ignoring your >contributions to the web page. Thanks, no that's alright Andre, I just wanted to make sure. Michael Peters private: 100041.247@compuserve.com work: mp@harold-scholz.de http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters From ???@??? Fri Dec 20 09:30:09 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 20 08:35:37 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vb7v5-0007Bm-00; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 08:35:35 -0800 Message-ID: <32BABE92.1E3D@cca-int.com> Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 11:28:02 -0500 From: david kirkdorffer Reply-To: david-kirkdorffer@cca-int.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Fripp Equipment -- Circa January1986 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"RCJzj.A.DeG.88ruy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1462 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 08:35:35 -0800 X-UIDL: 10f0eba04d33f9bce24593db2bd9dad8 Hi Folks -- and seasons greetings to you all. While I'm not able to read or receive looper-delight, I'm thinking of you. Here's a little something I thought you'd all get a kick out of... and I 'spect it may be something worth keeping for the web-page... In January, 1986, Robert Fripp was featured in Guitar Player magazine. He was interviewed and at great length (reproduced on the Elephant Talk Web-Site -- http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/intervws.htm). Guitar Player enclosed a floppy-vinyl disk (Soundpage) of some Frippertronics, called "Easter Sunday." Along with the interview and the Soundpage was a sidebar on the equipment Fripp was using at that time. This sidebar article is presented bellow. merry merry merry erry rry rri rrirri David Kirkdorffer ****************************************************8******* Frippertronics An mini-interview with Robert Fripp by Tom Mulhern Guitar Player, January 1986 The accompanying Soundpage features Robert Fripp using Frippertronics, a system hat recirculates improvised guitar lines using a pair of tape recorders, and also employs electronic effects to manipulate the timbre. For "Easter Sunday, " which was recorded on Easter Sunday, 1983, in Toronto, Fripp improvised with a Roland GR-700 synthesizer, and soloed on top of that with a Takamine acoustic, followed by a Les Paul with a fuzz box played through a Fender Princeton amp. Here, Robert Fripp discusses the origins of Frippertronics, as well as his customized equipment and his guitar synthesizer. Guitar Player Editor. GP ö When did Frippertronics originate? RF ö Originally, the system was introduced to me by Brian Eno. I worked with him on it for the piece of music that became No Pussyfooting, which was recorded in July 1972 and released I 1973. I began working on it on my own in June and July 1977, when I was living in New York. Frippertronics as such went public for the first time in February 1978 at The Kitchen [a New York arts and performance gallery], where I was giving a solo concert. I needed a name for it, so I came up with "Frippertronics" because it was silly. Then it went very, very public in 1979 with a four-month solo tour ö two months in Europe and two in America. And it was there, actually in front of people ö in record shops, pizza parlors, ecord offices, small cinemas, museums, all matter of places ö that I began to learn to work with it pretty well. I would run the tape back and improvise on top of it. The original form was with two Revox tape recorders, but now Iâm working with the Electro-Harmonix 16 second Digital Delay. It was advertised as a Fripp In The Box. Itâs far smaller, quicker, and easier to set up than two Revoxes. Although, the sounds one gets are quite different. The quality I nowhere near the same as the two Revoxes. GP ö Does this mean that the sound quality I better or worse? RF ö We would normally say itâs worse, but I use its limitations quite deliberately to come up with different sounds and textures. It loses an awful lot of top and bottom. But what it can do is run at double-speed and half speed at the press of a switch. And then I can put it through a Harmonizer and a Roland Space Echo. On the Harmonizer I bring in the octave above, and on the Roland Space Echo I can add sound on sound. Therefore, one can be going forwards and backwards at different speeds all at once, harmonized or not.. Once oneâs put the basic signal into the Fripp In The Box, one can then play with it in various ways. I used this system with the Roland GR 700 about a year -and-a-half ago in a live, improvised performance in Wimborne Minster at a 1,000-year-old church which the BBC filmed. They were doing a 30-minute biography of my life. It was the first time Iâve used it live. And last summer I worked with it in England in three performances in record shops. The Electro-Harmonix unit is limited. It doesnât have the facilities of the large-scale Frippertronics system with two Revoxes, but itâs very mobile and has its own characteristic quality. GP ö When you were using the Revoxes, did you find that the tape-loop created a limitation, in terms of the time it took for sounds to recirculate? RF ö Well, strictly speaking, there isnât a continuous loop on Frippertronics. Itâs simply one reel of tape going from one machine into the other. The playback system from the right machine becomes the second imput for he left machine. So, its not actually a loop, although in a sense it is, because the output from the second machine loops back into the first. There are limitations to the system, but limitations donât worry me. I accept limitations fairly happily. GP ö Did you have a variable-speed oscillator to control the speed of the machines? RF ö Yes. You see, Iâve been working with this system in which I normally run at 7.5 ips (inches per second), but thereâs no such thing as two machines running at exactly 7.5 ips. So itâs useful to have a VSO to bring the other one back up to the right speed, to maintain constant tension of the tape over the record and playback heads. But you find that if the tension is too great or too loose, you get a very quick build up of wow and flutter. Itâs a delicate system, and unless the machines ae biased accurately to the particular tape youâre using, and the heads are clean, all manner of things go wrong. Then someone bumps the table the machines are on, and an unexpected shake comes in. You have to be on your toes, and you can never guarantee itâs going to work accurately. Itâs a very precarious way of working ö which is part of its appeal. It has this advantage: you can play it back later, because itâs an analog system.. But the Electro-Harmonx Fripp In The Box has no memory. So, once you unplug it, thatâs it. At Arnyâs Shack, the studio I sue in England, we put something into the Fripp In The Box and record two minutes of tape, so we can refer back to it, if we wish. This way, we build up the library of different short pieces and signatures generated by the Fripp In The Box. GP ö What kinds of electronic devices did you use besides two Revoxes? RF ö I generally use a small pedalboard with a volume, wah-wah and fuzz. It never really mattered what types they were, except the volume pedal I used was the cheapest one, the first one I ever bought, in 1967. And until Roland out volume pedals in 1981, which are now the best Iâve found, I had to use the original one, which had a good on/off sweep. The Roland volume pedals let you adjust the on and off range. All of my electronic equipment is built into rack mounted modules by Tony Arnold of Arnyâs Shack. Itâs all custom equipment. He takes a small effect, builds it into a rack-mounting module, and slots it in. Besides the Roland Space Echo, I also have am Ibanez digital delay. The specific kinds of fuzz boxes Iâve used ate Electro-Harmonix] Big Muffs and Foxey Ladys, which were good ö the old ones. You canât get fuzz boxes like that anymore; Iâve tried. All you can come up with, if youâre lucky, are the old ones. Tony Arnold is planning to take a number of old buzz box circuits and put them all in one module with a switching rank, so you can switch around to any one of five or six traditional, old circuits. You can then go to Big Muff to Foxey Lady to Burns Buzzaround to Color-Sound and so on. GP ö What kind of amp do you use? RF ö A Roland JC-120, but Iâm looking for a good valve [tube] amp; ironically, JC-120s are appalling for fzz-sustain, in the way that I work with it. So I use a Fender or a Marshall ö virtually any valve amp will do when Iâm working fizz sustain. I generally run in mono, although with the JC-120, one takes the left and the right channels for the spread. GP ö Do you have any other electrics? RF ö Yes, I have a very fine â57 sunburst Fender Strat given to me by Robin Trower in 1975 ö a very kind, very generous gift. GP ö When you switch from, say, your Les Paul or Tokai to the Strat, is there a period of readjustment? RF ö Well, Iâm primarily a Gibson Les Paul player, so yes. A Strat is an entirely different instrument. And again, an acoustic guitar is entirely different from an electric guitar; it requires a different vocabulary, a different approach ö a different way of living, actually. And the technique of playing is somewhat different. Obviously, one is working for tone production. There are a lot less good acoustic guitar players that there are electric. Almost anyone can get a good sound out of an electric guitar. I mean, itâs not that easy, but almost anyone can. Not almost anyone can get a good sound out of an acoustic. If you slice across the strings, you get scrape, so to counter that you use a nasty plastic plectrum. But then, you donât produce any tone. Most players require a different pick for an acoustic and an electric guitar. I donât, but that has to do with the particular picking technique that I use. Also, with an acoustic guitar, one needs a far better right hand technique than one does for the electric guitar. With electric you can coast a lot with the left hand. With acoustic guitar, it doesnât work. And the technique of playing is somewhat different. GP ö Your synthesizer solo n "Elephant Talk" [Discipline] goes beyond the normal guitarâs range. It has a quality similar to that of a balloon releasing its air while the opening is pinched. RF ö Yes, something like that. Iâm not exactly interested in sounding like a saxophone or anything identifiable, but I am interested in extending the range of the guitar. On the backing loop to "Easter Sunda," the synthesizer gives me an octave higher than the normal guitar. GP ö By and large, the guitar synth is in much the same novelty role as the early keyboard synthesizers. RF ö The guitar controller of the synthesizer at the moment has not yet become a unique instrument. A new music to go along with a new instrument hasnât yet appeared. When King Crimson were in Japan, Roland told Adrian Belew that they hadnât expected the synthesizer guitar to be used as we were playing it ö which is essentially as a musical instrument. I think they had in mind that fairly poor players would be strumming open E-chords with these wonderful sounds coming out. When we took it seriously and really worked, played with things, they were quite taken aback. This is my understanding of it. GP ö Wen did you begin working with a guitar synthesizer? RF ö In the spring of 1981. I still use the Roland guitar synthesizer. The hexaphonic pickup in on a Tokai Les Paul copy, which has been modified for me by a man in England called Red Lees. He put in a coil-tap and phase-reverse switch for each pickup and a Kahler tremelo arm. So I have a one-and-only unique guitar. The synthesizer side of it is useful but itâs very poor for racking. Iâve heard the Synclavier, and it is very impressive. But it doesnât sound like guitar, which of course is presumably why people use it. So I ask myself why is it that a guitar player bothers to sound like a trumpet and come up with lines that are a bit feeble for a trumpet player, or a sax, and so on. I donât think the guitar synthesizer has reached the point yet where itâs become a new instrument. For example, the electric guitar was originally an acoustic guitar that became louder. But because it became louder, it became another instrument. So, Charlie Christian, in a sense, became Les Paul, in a sense, became Jimi Hendrix. At that point, the electric guitar was a different instrument. It has absolutely no relationship with an acoustic metal-strung guitar. Itâs a different instrument with a different vocabulary, different bodies of technique, different music, a different lifestyle of the person playing it. The synthesizer has not yet reached that level of individuality, though itâs on its way. END From ???@??? Fri Dec 20 09:30:12 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 20 09:18:47 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vb8aq-0001m7-00; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 09:18:44 -0800 Message-ID: From: John Ott To: "'Loopers Delight'" , "'david-kirkdorffer@cca-int.com'" Subject: RE: Fripp Equipment -- Circa January1986 Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 11:10:08 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 Encoding: 54 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"3D9D-D.A.HeB.5msuy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1463 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 09:18:44 -0800 X-UIDL: 15736741ff57802511c71ac5caca1b20 >>From: david kirkdorffer >Sent: Friday, December 20, 1996 4:28 PM >To: John_Ott@ATK.COM >Subject: Fripp Equipment -- Circa January1986 > >Hi Folks -- and seasons greetings to you all. While I'm not able to >read or receive looper-delight, I'm thinking of you. Here's a little >something I thought you'd all get a kick out of... and I 'spect it may >be something worth keeping for the web-page... > > >In January, 1986, Robert Fripp was featured in Guitar Player magazine. >He was interviewed and at great length (reproduced on the Elephant Talk >Web-Site -- http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/intervws.htm). >Guitar Player enclosed a floppy-vinyl disk (Soundpage) of some >Frippertronics, called "Easter Sunday." Along with the interview and >the Soundpage was a sidebar on the equipment Fripp was using at that >time. This sidebar article is presented bellow. > >merry merry merry erry rry rri rrirri > >David Kirkdorffer < Fripp's current rig is in Guitar Player June 95 issue. King Crimson was the cover feature. (Also a feature on Trey Gunn and Tony Levin on Stick) Issues before Sept 95 is on the gopher server which always is full. (If have had about a One in twenty success rate connecting) http://www.enews.com/magazines/guitar_player He mentioned that he got peved at Electro-Harmonix for Using the Name "Fripp in the box", He called them up and asked if he could have one and they said no. "Imagine that" Fripp said with a wry grin. He gear has changed some. Still uses the Tokai and a Roland but uses the TC Electronics 2290 (2) for delay and looping. Also has a Eventide 3500 and Digitech GSP2101 in his rack and a Sansamp for distortion and amp simulation. Live and Studio goes direct to the board. merry merry John > > From ???@??? Sat Dec 21 02:26:23 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 20 10:49:17 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vbA0S-0007AT-00; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 10:49:16 -0800 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 10:47:38 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: echoplex DP in stock? Resent-Message-ID: <"KhomJC.A.TkG.v8tuy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1465 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 10:49:16 -0800 X-UIDL: 0c96731f70560bc81922589cee35b06a fellow loopers, Due to the rumored Echoplex DP price increase, I thought I would look into popping for another 'plex before the year was up. I discovered that Manny's Music in NY (where I bought a 'plex for $480 a couple of years ago) no longer carries them -- Sweetwater Sound (Illinois) has them back ordered 'till February -- and Sam Ash, NY is selling them for $629! ANybody know any places that have them in stock and is selling them for <= $500? - chris _____________________________________________________ Chris Chovit cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov AVIRIS Experiment Coordinator ph: (818) 354-8077 JPL M/S 306-336 FAX: (818) 393-4406 4800 Oak Grove Dr. pager #: (800) 759-8255 PIN 834-3869 Pasadena, CA 91109 _____________________________________________________ From ???@??? Sat Dec 21 02:26:48 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 20 16:36:34 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vbFQW-0004Up-00; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 16:36:32 -0800 Message-ID: <32BADCF0.226D@interaccess.com> Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 18:37:38 +0000 From: James Coker X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Fripp Equipment -- Circa now References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"j0GuCC.A.iGE.mCzuy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1472 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 16:36:32 -0800 X-UIDL: 5288385fb9287b7b91dd012c3aeba8b3 John Ott wrote: > > Is the sustain pickup, Micheal Brook's infinite guitar system? I read > in guitar player that Brook was keeping the details secret so > as to release it as a product. Has he done that or just gave one to > Fripp? > There was a lengthy discussion on either this list or digital guitar a while back. I believe the Fernandez system is based on Brook's guitar, but much scaled down, Brook's guitar has pedal controls and probably more power. I wouldn't be surprised if Fripp had Brook build him a guitar, since they toured together w/ Sylvian, but then Fripp has never seemed to have any trouble achieving long feedbacked sustain. jim From ???@??? Sat Dec 21 02:26:26 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 20 11:03:09 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vbADs-0000K6-00; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 11:03:08 -0800 Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 11:00:09 -0800 Message-Id: <199612201900.LAA18249@dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com> From: erwill@ix.netcom.com (James E Williamson) Subject: Fripp Equipment -- Circa now To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com.I'm.afraid.the.june.95.GP.is.blissfully.out.of.date.as.far.as Resent-Message-ID: <"q_BoGD.A.wK.6Juuy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1467 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 11:03:08 -0800 X-UIDL: ef022196c0be6140ec03384f87bccaed Fripp's rigg goes. As of the HORDE tour he had two Roland GP-100 preamps, two Eventide h3000d/se processors (which he prizes for it's grainy pitch-shifting, most likely, not the more advanced dsp4000), FOUR tc2290 delays, all being routed through a Sound Sculpture Switchblade. His Tokai guitar has been replaced by a Fernandez les paul gold-top, with the sustaining pickup system installed, and a gk2a synth pickup. Now, here comes the sad part. He replaced the gr300 with the newer gr1 synthesiser. This may not seem like a big deal, but it has completely changed the way his soundscapes sound. The soon-to-be-released Gates Of Paradise cd sounds like a Windham Hill release. I, personally, love the way his soundscapes sounded, the digitally effected analogue synth being a crucial part of that. I'm a keyboard player, and know a lot about sysnthesis, and I really hate the way the gr1 sounds. I here Fripp just got a vg8, which I love. The vg8 is the coolest guitar thing Roland has done since the gr300. Has anyone tried out the Akai Riff-O-Matic for a looper yet? -- James Eric Williamson - erwill@ix.netcom.com - erwill@heartland.bradley.edu One of Peoria's most obscure ambient blues musicians From ???@??? Sat Dec 21 02:26:27 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 20 11:15:10 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vbAPV-00012a-00; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 11:15:09 -0800 Message-ID: From: John Ott To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Fripp Equipment -- Circa now Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 13:07:37 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 Encoding: 37 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"GOshRC.A.A1.FVuuy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1468 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 11:15:09 -0800 X-UIDL: 260c92c6bdfa12577d4e46a85b593f3a >>>---------- >From: erwill@ix.netcom.com >Sent: Friday, December 20, 1996 7:00 PM >To: John_Ott@ATK.COM >Subject: Fripp Equipment -- Circa now > >Fripp's rigg goes. As of the HORDE tour he had two Roland GP-100 >preamps, two Eventide h3000d/se processors (which he prizes for it's >grainy pitch-shifting, most likely, not the more advanced dsp4000), >FOUR tc2290 delays, all being routed through a Sound Sculpture >Switchblade. His Tokai guitar has been replaced by a Fernandez les >paul gold-top, with the sustaining pickup system installed, and a gk2a synth pickup.<<< Is the sustain pickup, Micheal Brook's infinite guitar system? I read in guitar player that Brook was keeping the details secret so as to release it as a product. Has he done that or just gave one to Fripp? >> > Now, here comes the sad part. He replaced the gr300 with the newer >gr1 synthesiser. This may not seem like a big deal, but it has >completely changed the way his soundscapes sound. The >soon-to-be-released Gates Of Paradise cd sounds like a Windham Hill >release. I, personally, love the way his soundscapes sounded, the >digitally effected analogue synth being a crucial part of that. I'm a >keyboard player, and know a lot about sysnthesis, and I really hate the >way the gr1 sounds. I here Fripp just got a vg8, which I love. The >vg8 is the coolest guitar thing Roland has done since the gr300.< I think I remember reading that Belew has switched also His old Roland was dropped by Baggage handlers (Actually his whole rack, the Roland didn't survive.) merry looping John > From ???@??? Sat Dec 21 02:26:20 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 20 10:21:32 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vb9ZZ-0005SL-00; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 10:21:29 -0800 From: nplanque@infobiogen.fr Message-Id: <32BAE770.38D3@infobiogen.fr> Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 19:22:24 +0000 Reply-To: nplanque@infobiogen.fr X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 [fr] (Macintosh; I; PPC) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Bio modification... X-Url: http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"CpUau.A.dAF.Bjtuy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1464 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 10:21:29 -0800 X-UIDL: 93e58fd29c35d5a3cc896ca4923b8fb3 Just to say that I've got a K7 completed that is called "Store My Secrets". So if this little box in my bio could be updated, I would be extremely glad..... Olivier Malhomme  From ???@??? Sat Dec 21 02:26:31 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 20 13:27:10 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vbCTG-00013f-00; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 13:27:10 -0800 Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 13:15:30 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: echoplex DP in stock? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"BuuGp.A.b0.uQwuy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1469 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 13:27:10 -0800 X-UIDL: a2d6b8a837ad4320933eabf97665505f On Fri, 20 Dec 1996, Chris Chovit wrote: > fellow loopers, > > Due to the rumored Echoplex DP price increase, I thought I would look into > popping for another 'plex before the year was up. I discovered that > Manny's Music in NY (where I bought a 'plex for $480 a couple of years ago) > no longer carries them -- Sweetwater Sound (Illinois) has them back ordered > 'till February -- and Sam Ash, NY is selling them for $629! ANybody know > any places that have them in stock and is selling them for <= $500? You might try Nadine's in Hollywood; they quoted someone on this list a $500 price not too long ago. --Andre From ???@??? Sat Dec 21 02:26:33 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 20 13:28:52 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vbCUs-0001BY-00; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 13:28:50 -0800 Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 13:17:47 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com.I'm.afraid.the.june.95.GP.is.blissfully.out.of.date.as.far.as Subject: Re: Fripp Equipment -- Circa now In-Reply-To: <199612201900.LAA18249@dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"CSGkGD.A.fAB.5Swuy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1470 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 13:28:50 -0800 X-UIDL: 3828982385dd57bb08a2439d81a59761 On Fri, 20 Dec 1996, James E Williamson wrote: > I here Fripp just got a vg8, which I love. The > vg8 is the coolest guitar thing Roland has done since the gr300. Fripp had a VG8 sitting on top of his rack when I saw Crimson at House of Blues in October of 1995, so he's had one for some time. I thought that "Gates of Paradise" was culled from some gigs he played in the UK around the beginning of this past summer, no? That would certainly put him within the range of VG-dom for the upcoming releases... --Andre From ???@??? Sat Dec 21 02:26:34 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 20 13:49:47 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vbCp8-0002O9-00; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 13:49:46 -0800 Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 16:46:24 -0500 From: Dpcoffin@aol.com Message-ID: <961220164502_1489567175@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Stereo Resent-Message-ID: <"Tbxi0D.A.OHC.2lwuy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1471 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 13:49:46 -0800 X-UIDL: 60cfdcf476cc482e17406385f9b3470a >>Is the MS-1 stereo? What can it do? It is stereo, but you can't overdub, just do straight sampling/looping/playback from pads....it IS 4-voice polyphonic, tho...and samples are in flash ram so you can turn it off, plus save to cards, which can boost memory times into the many minutes of (compressed) 16-bit audio. >>Does anyone use JamMen stereo? Is the MIDIclock enough to sync it? Apparently, you can't get two JamMen to be linked at the sample level David From ???@??? Sat Dec 21 02:26:51 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 20 17:28:59 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vbGFF-0007RV-00; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 17:28:57 -0800 Date: 20 Dec 96 20:21:27 EST From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Bio modification... Message-ID: <961221012127_100041.247_JHB93-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"FygAxD.A.9xG.Nxzuy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1473 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 17:28:57 -0800 X-UIDL: 2c5a3b10088d54d40ce13e85405d15ce >Just to say that I've got a K7 completed that is called "Store My >Secrets". So if this little box in my bio could be updated, I would be >extremely glad..... hi Olivier, what is a K7 (excuse my ignorance) and how do you want the text in your bio? Michael Peters private: 100041.247@compuserve.com work: mp@harold-scholz.de http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters From ???@??? Sat Dec 21 02:26:53 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 20 17:32:19 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vbGIU-0007eR-00; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 17:32:18 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 17:54:25 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: echoplex DP in stock? Resent-Message-ID: <"OlYcm.A.3EH._2zuy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1474 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 17:32:18 -0800 X-UIDL: 052f55449c91b51917fd6c9163518461 >fellow loopers, > >Due to the rumored Echoplex DP price increase, I thought I would look into >popping for another 'plex before the year was up. I discovered that >Manny's Music in NY (where I bought a 'plex for $480 a couple of years ago) >no longer carries them -- Sweetwater Sound (Illinois) has them back ordered >'till February -- and Sam Ash, NY is selling them for $629! ANybody know >any places that have them in stock and is selling them for <= $500? > >- chris > A friend just bought one from Banana's at Large, in (I think) San Jose, for $650 with the footpedal. You might give them a try. I have a number that's a few years old: 800-786-7585, might still be good. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Sun Dec 22 13:47:11 1996 >From kflint Sun Dec 22 07:08:32 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vbpVv-0000Lz-00; Sun, 22 Dec 1996 07:08:31 -0800 Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 10:05:19 -0500 From: PMimlitsch@aol.com Message-ID: <961222100518_1556875284@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Vortex/Jamman Tip Resent-Message-ID: <"QIMru.A._Q.y5Uvy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1475 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 07:08:31 -0800 X-UIDL: e90a215d075f927570134fd1abfd7160 Well my Vortex arrived here Fri. from Guitar Center in Hollywood. I gave it a quick test run to make sure it didn't exhibit any of the problems some Loopists have reported their units did. So far it checks out O.K. I'm not completely sure since it arrived missing a manual (which Guitar Center is shipping). In the meantime I'm going through the Vortex Message Collection on the web page to get started. In doing so I came accross this in one of Dave Stanger's posts: "Here's a technique I use with the JamMan to get a more flexible, improvisational feel from it. When I first got it, I tended to use it to start a loop, then punch in more layers. But what I found was that things just got bigger and louder and bigger and louder. It had a very one-way dynamic. Now, rather than using the looping functions, I usually prefer to just use its delay function. There are 16 delay feedback levels, controlled by the knob on the front. Turn the feedback up high and start looping. At 16, you effectively have infinite repeat. As things build, you can turn the feedback down and let a loop fade, then turn it back up and add more to the loop while the older material floats in the background. " I've discovered(?) a way to do the same thing in Loop Mode. Somebody may have already covered this but here it is anyway.: 1) Define your loop- Tap in, pause/or play,Tap out--single blinking light 2) Hit Tap to initiate recording--single solid light 3) While in record mode send midi note message 9.10.or 11 (depending on fade length desired)--3 vertical solid lights. You're still in record mode but with each loop cycle what you recorded previous cycles is fading while you layer this cycle. 4) Hit Tap again and you're out of record/layer mode and your loop volume is frozen at the faded volume.--single blinking light. Note: Your loop in and out points remain in effect even if you faded to zero volume and you can initiate record/layer again with a subsequent tap. This way you can set up loops, fade them out, play "normal" (yea right) then rebuild a new loop at the original in/out length or tempo. To kill the loop hit Ring or Reset. I've found this particularly usefull in gradually changing the "character' of a loop or when working with a percussionist, fading a loop out, having a percussion solo section, then rebuilding a different loop at the same tempo as the pre-percussion solo loop. Take care and Happy Holidays to all! --- Paul (Stick Player/Loopist) From ???@??? Sun Dec 22 15:20:52 1996 >From kflint Sun Dec 22 13:51:12 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vbvnc-00042c-00; Sun, 22 Dec 1996 13:51:12 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 13:47:19 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Boomerang is at Guitar Center! Resent-Message-ID: <"I6dVP.A.vtD._zavy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1476 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 13:51:12 -0800 X-UIDL: 1d5fd3103993dca3a2aca3de5a31b570 At 4:36 PM 12/19/96, The Man Himself wrote: >I was in the Hollywood Guitar Center last night, taking a passing glance >at the footpedals on display, when what should I see but a Boomerang >Phrase Sampler sitting there. I gave it a fairly quick run-thru, and here >are some thoughts: Thanks for the Boomerang review Andre, I've only seen demos and haven't gotten to play with one yet. I know some little bits about the beast that I can add, though. Also, Guitar Player did a review of it a few months back that was pretty favorable. I don't remember which issue, anyone know? >-- The overdub function only seems to work while the button for it is >being held down; this is a fairly significant limitation in my opinion. One complaint I've heard about the overdub is that it dramatically reduces the loop level while it is on, effectively giving a feedback control. Problem is you can't adjust it. So your older overdubs are continually being faded as new ones are added. The guy demoing at last year's NAMM said that after about six overdub passes, the first pass is completely inaudible. He had them change the software so that his didn't reduce volume at all during overdubs. That can also be a problem, since loops can easily build up to where they clip. I don't know if they have adjusted this since then, hopefully they have since that would be pretty irritating to me. >-- I didn't see any feedback control on the unit. There may have been one >lurking on the back panel next to the input gain, trim, and other >controls, but once again, I think I would have noticed running across it. >The volume control can be used to fade a loop in or out, but there's a lot >more to using feedback than simply fading in or out, and if this isn't an >available factor, then that's another fairly substantial drawback. You use the overdub, but its still really limited. >-- The sound struck me as very good. I was running a guitar (with a >still-affixed, broken top string -- see, it really *was* at Guitar >Center!) direct into the Boomerang, then straight out into the >standard-issue Fender combo, and heard fairly little difference between >the actual input signal and the looped sound. If someone's hoping to >loop higher-fi sounds than an electric guitar, they should spend more >time checking it out, but it seemed quite passable to me, especially >given the Boomerang's obvious slant towards off-the-cuff live work. I think its fine for electric guitars and maybe bass, but that's about it. The boomerang's sample rate is 16khz (compared to 32khz on the jamman and 41khz on the echoplex). This means that the audio bandwidth is only about 6khz, probably. This will be fine for a guitar with humbuckers (unless you are real picky), maybe a little noticeable with single coils. In the half speed mode the sample rate is dropped in half to 8khz, meaning a likely frequency response of 3 - 3.5khz. You would probably notice that, but it could still be fun to use. Still, as a cheap and easy to use looper for guitars, its probably worth taking a look. Another feature of the Boomerang is a large amount of loop time. It can give you something like 400 seconds in the 1/2 speed mode. (does anyone know the exact amount? I lost my brochure for it) I'm not sure if a 400 second loop is really that useful, but that's up to you. The boomerang doesn't have any features for dividing the memory in different loops like in the plex and jamman. >This is a very happening box; GC was selling it for somewhere around $350 >(one of those year-end Holiday deals, ya see). The half-speed function is >awfully cool, though I'm not sure it's $350 worth of cool for someone who >already owns one of the other Big Three. There were some things, such as It's that much on sale? $350 seems high. Its just a simple sheet metal enclosure with some fairly simple electronics, I can't imagine it costs much to manufacture. Jamman's are around that price aren't they? kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Dec 22 15:37:26 1996 >From kflint Sun Dec 22 15:25:50 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vbxHA-00074u-00; Sun, 22 Dec 1996 15:25:48 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 15:20:40 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Ridiculous Echoprice & software upgrade Resent-Message-ID: <"uTI-lC.A.jdG.gLcvy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1477 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 15:25:48 -0800 X-UIDL: 388aa6d2ecae50645d679342991241a6 At 12:59 PM 12/16/96, Chris Chovit wrote: >James E. Williamson wrote: > >> I just wanted to annouce that the marketing geniuses at GMI, the >>parent company of Gibson and Oberheim, have decided once again, in >>their infinite wisdom, to raise the price of the Echoplex yet again, to >>a list price of 1000 US dollars, effective jan 1. So, all of you iffy >>jamman people should jump ship immediately while the list price is only >>:) $700. I haven't checked in on Oberheim on this yet, but I was wondering where you had heard it? >Oh man....this is unfortunate. Kim, Matthias.....or anyone else with some >intuition in this area: > >WHEN IS THE SOFTWARE UPGRADE GOING TO COME OUT??!!?? a few hurdles remain, but hopefully all will be well soon. Patience, a touch of zen, and the ability to perceive time on geologic scales is all you need... > >The frustration I'm feeling is probably what motivated Matthias to design >the 'plex in the first place.... > >- Chris The frustration you feel now is gnat-sized compared to what you would experience after you attempted to design such a thing..... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Dec 22 15:37:28 1996 >From kflint Sun Dec 22 15:25:54 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vbxHD-00075P-00; Sun, 22 Dec 1996 15:25:51 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 15:20:43 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Looping vs delay effects Resent-Message-ID: <"cV-2UB.A.leG.mLcvy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1478 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 15:25:51 -0800 X-UIDL: 9a6a96d5dc59a56eb42511db0cfda62a At 6:22 AM 12/16/96, T.W. Hartnett wrote: >I'm surprised at the number of people who want to control their Echoplex >via a MIDI foot controller. I prefer to have one foot controller for >governing my sound options, and one for the loop. I want to be be able >to change sounds and control the loop without worrying about what bank >I'm in. Having two controllers allows me to potentially have access to >all my presets, without having to reprogram my controller. I haven't >seen a midi controller that was flexible enough to handle all this, since >you can't have multiple switches "active" (pressing a button delivers a >preset, you can't have two switches "down" at the same time). A hundred >dollars is a hundred dollars, but I think that if you've got an >Echoplex/Jamman and a rackmount preamp (or two) and a stereo setup, >you're already in for a pile of green. If someone knows of a robust (no >skimpy MIDI/external AC adaptor connectors) and flexible (multiple >switches on concurrently, namable patches, etc) for under $500, please >let me know. > >Travis Hartnett One nice thing about the Echoplex pedal is the general ruggedness and simplicity of it. There's really not much that can go wrong, and if anything did you could easily fix it yourself. It's passive and doesn't require any power, so there are no wall warts to be broken or lost, and no batteries to go dead. You connect it to the rack unit with an ordinary patch cord, same as you would use for a guitar or whatever. So there is no special cable that can only be replaced from a single source at an outrageous price. We made the rack unit smarter so that the pedal could be simple and dumb. And therefore less likely to break. The electronics in the pedal are simple enough that anyone with a negligible amount of electronics knowledge could figure it out and repair it if they needed to. In fact, its simple enough that you could make your own pedal (or other sort of controller) if you want to. I'll try to put information on how to do that on the web page, as part of some kind of pedal tutorial. Also, the pedal is labeled nicely, so you can easily tell which switch you want. The only part about the pedal that tends to be a bit too flimsy are the switches themselves. People that like to stomp on their pedals with heavy boots tend to break them. If you fit that category, you might want to replace the switches with heavy duty, industrial type switches. Those cost about $3-5 each, which is why they are not in the mass produced version. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Dec 22 15:37:32 1996 >From kflint Sun Dec 22 15:26:12 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vbxHX-00077Q-00; Sun, 22 Dec 1996 15:26:11 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 15:20:46 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: dj loopers Resent-Message-ID: <"nSjs0.A.1eG.oLcvy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1479 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 15:26:11 -0800 X-UIDL: f2df05bf0b5ae2a90860f65f6d714436 At 11:33 PM 12/17/96, JOHNPOLLOCK@delphi.com wrote: >Dave Trenkel wrote, in part, > >>on another subject, does anyone have any experience with the cheapo >>samplers that Roland, Yamaha, and (I think) Akai are coming out with? I saw some really hip demos of these dj oriented loopers at the Frankfurt trade show. I haven't had a chance to play with them myself, but I think they offer some interesting possibilities. A key difference from the echoplex/jamman/boomerang loopers is that these were designed specifically for dj/dance mix type musicians, and therefore they offer different sorts of features and a different sort of control interface. I think some interesting cross-breeding potential lies in there... >Or with DJ mixers? From catalog listings, I've noticed that quite >a few of these include sampling capability. I'm sure they don't >loop, in the sense of overdubbing, but some offer fairly long delay >times. It seems like they might offer fairly good bang for the buck, >by combining a stereo line mixer, one or two mic preamps, and the >delay. The question is, can the hardware be hacked to allow footswitch >control of the sampling functions? > >John (johnpollock@delphi.com) >Troubador Tech on the Web-- http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock/ Don't know about footswitches and such. They probably take midi control. You are right, though, they lack many functions found on the echoplex and jamman. They do offer a lot of other interesting features, like transposing, bpm matching, and small sample libraries. Has anyone had a chance to check these out in depth? And since the dj subject has tentatively resurfaced, does anyone know any dj types that would be interested in joining the list? There is a whole world of looping in that genre, with an assortment of well developed techniques not found in the soundscape/guitar-loop variety that tends to get focused on here. I think some articulate dj types could give us a real interesting (and probably needed) perspective. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Mon Dec 23 01:38:38 1996 >From kflint Sun Dec 22 22:48:28 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vc4BY-00067C-00; Sun, 22 Dec 1996 22:48:28 -0800 Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 22:40:44 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: finley@ecst.csuchico.edu (Matthew F. McCabe) Subject: Re: Greetings =====>>> JamMan mods??? Resent-Message-ID: <"yHFCBD.A.hhF.0livy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1480 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 22:48:28 -0800 X-UIDL: fd89fc958cb7b2ed1a121031d883ce80 Dpcoffin@aol.com said: >....to that end, I called Bob Sellon, the guy who did Torn's PCM-42 tweaking >(he's at 617-280-0395...not the # in the GP article...and seems to work for >Lexicon) >which no provision was designed in. BUT, he claimed, 1: that he may be coming >out with some Jamman tweaks, and David, Just wondering if Bob mentioned what kind of Jamman tweaks????? Matt ------------------------------------------------------------ King Never http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~finley/kingnever.html ------------------------------------------------------------ Matthew F. McCabe Able Cain King Never Marathon Records From ???@??? Mon Dec 23 10:46:32 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 23 04:14:17 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vc9Gr-0002s7-00; Mon, 23 Dec 1996 04:14:17 -0800 Date: Mon, 23 Dec 96 06:51:48 EST From: c62op27@ibx.com (Victor Fiorillo) Message-Id: <9612231151.AA11141@ibx.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Akai S2000 Sampler Resent-Message-ID: <"3jx85.A.soC.ccnvy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1481 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 04:14:17 -0800 X-UIDL: 20d72c3cad6e9509f0afa063c885d774 If anyone has experience with the Akai S2000 sampler, please email me privately with your thoughts. I am considering a purchase. Also, if anyone knows of any sampling lists, please let me know. TIA Victor From ???@??? Mon Dec 23 10:46:34 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 23 06:09:18 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vcB49-0004sU-00; Mon, 23 Dec 1996 06:09:17 -0800 Message-Id: <22403.199612231408@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 14:08:11 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: Re: On-guitar control? Resent-Message-ID: <"nzDgdD.A.agE.1Ipvy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1482 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 06:09:17 -0800 X-UIDL: 94a7e55a43a907a24ba1db5952e2ce6e >I would like to help, but my Vortex is still with Chris :-/ >So, what do you mean by ac/dc separaton and CC input? I mean separating the guitar signal (AC component) from the pot contolling the expression pedal input (DC). By CC I mean the Continuous Controller, or expression pedal, input. >>I don't have a Vortex, and my guess on the ac/dc separation might be way >>off, but... >>would it be possible to wire a guitar signal to a stereo plug, with the >>other tap driving the 'tex CC input? Could the signals be separtated by >>capacitor, >>eg > >I suppose the control signal is dc. You may put a cap to ground to keep the >line slow and thus prevent it from sending clicks into the parallel line >with the sound. >Why did you put the serial cap? In case the fact that you're setting the guitar input to the same voltage as one of the expression pedal terminals causes problems. I guess they're probably buffered so there wouldn't be a problem. But my electronics knowledge is about 7 years out of date, so this may all be bull. >> >>-------------------------| |-------------- >>pickups, vol etc stereo to amp in >>-------------------------| cord |-------||----- >>spare pot | >>-------------------------| |----=======to CC i/p >> Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Everything in moderation, including moderation" (Zen Proverb) From ???@??? Mon Dec 23 10:46:35 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 23 06:13:37 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vcB8K-00052T-00; Mon, 23 Dec 1996 06:13:36 -0800 Message-Id: <22521.199612231412@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 14:12:40 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: JamMan techie question Resent-Message-ID: <"EoiexC.A.kqE.9Mpvy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1483 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 06:13:36 -0800 X-UIDL: dc8e6664d7df02f94542e0154841b5ec Quick technical question re the JamMan control inputs. Are the two common rings on the footswitch inputs at the same potential, ie can I wire them together? I'm building a pedalboard and would be able to run all the connectoins down a MIDI cable if this is the case. Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Everything in moderation, including moderation" (Zen Proverb) From ???@??? Mon Dec 23 23:29:42 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 23 17:39:17 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vcLps-0004bM-00; Mon, 23 Dec 1996 17:39:16 -0800 Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 20:34:44 -0500 From: Dpcoffin@aol.com Message-ID: <961223203443_1620420862@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Greetings =====>>> JamMan mods??? Resent-Message-ID: <"1vsOoB.A.SHE.EOzvy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1484 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 17:39:16 -0800 X-UIDL: 7488f5a4dc72a64558e521bdd66f226d In a message dated 12/23/96 2:44:04 AM, you wrote: <<>....to that end, I called Bob Sellon, the guy who did Torn's PCM-42 tweaking >(he's at 617-280-0395...not the # in the GP article...and seems to work for >Lexicon) >which no provision was designed in. BUT, he claimed, 1: that he may be coming >out with some Jamman tweaks, and David, Just wondering if Bob mentioned what kind of Jamman tweaks????? Matt >> Frankly, not owning one, I didn't pay much attention to/understand easily what he described. All I heard was, 1; not improving stereo, 2; also, quite iffy whether he would actually do it. I mentioned it assuming others would call him to encourage his efforts! Have a loopyx-masx-mas!x David From ???@??? Tue Dec 24 03:46:34 1996 >From kflint Tue Dec 24 03:05:06 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vcUfR-0006kN-00; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 03:05:05 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 03:20:25 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: dj loopers Resent-Message-ID: <"qL3QsD.A.p-F.8f7vy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1485 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 03:05:05 -0800 X-UIDL: 04376ffdf6bc9db7b34d126ca8ce7723 Kim Flint writes: >At 11:33 PM 12/17/96, JOHNPOLLOCK@delphi.com wrote: >>Dave Trenkel wrote, in part, >> >>>on another subject, does anyone have any experience with the cheapo >>>samplers that Roland, Yamaha, and (I think) Akai are coming out with? > >I saw some really hip demos of these dj oriented loopers at the Frankfurt >trade show. I haven't had a chance to play with them myself, but I think >they offer some interesting possibilities. A key difference from the >echoplex/jamman/boomerang loopers is that these were designed specifically >for dj/dance mix type musicians, and therefore they offer different sorts >of features and a different sort of control interface. I think some >interesting cross-breeding potential lies in there... > Could you be a little more specific? What was hip about the demos, what makes them more specific to the dance/dj crowd? I fairly interested them, but I haven't been able to get much info. I think that there's a really interesting crossover between the equipment needs of the dance scene and looping. I've been using a Roland mc-303 drum machine/sequencer/tone module lately, which was designed specifically for the dance scene, and it's one of the best live-performance oriented pieces of midi gear ever. A fairly intuitive interface, lots of real-time controls (filters, envelopes, arpeggiator), and a pretty cool feature that allows you to trigger sequences from the keyboard on top of any playing sequences, kind of like a sampler, but the loops come out synched to the master sequence. It's definitely designed to allow a lot of real-time modification of sequenced material. And it also makes a great master-clock for the JamMan. Hey, I've got an Echoplex Pro in my studio, borrowed, for 2 weeks, w/50 seconds worth of memory. First impressions: a very deep machine. With the jamman, I fest like I had mastered the learning-curve in about 1/2 hour, and then was on to really using it. The echoplex seems much deeper, and that I'll barely get into it in 2 weeks. The sound quality is excellent, though, way more "transparent" than the J-man. Also, I've got a vortex on order, should see it in a few days... >And since the dj subject has tentatively resurfaced, does anyone know any >dj types that would be interested in joining the list? There is a whole >world of looping in that genre, with an assortment of well developed >techniques not found in the soundscape/guitar-loop variety that tends to >get focused on here. I think some articulate dj types could give us a real >interesting (and probably needed) perspective. > The liner-notes to DJ Spooky's records have some pretty interesting thoughts on the african influence on the sampling/looping/manipulating esthetic. Would it be a breach of copyright for me to quote some here? ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Tue Dec 24 03:50:26 1996 >From kflint Tue Dec 24 03:51:02 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vcVNs-00047f-00; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 03:51:00 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 03:46:25 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: looping techniques (was Re:Beyond Fripp (long)) Resent-Message-ID: <"Zv_kD.A.WqD.sM8vy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1486 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 03:51:00 -0800 X-UIDL: d5322b26af95832776a0f41043bfc32a Amidst all the Fripp babblings, this caught my eye: At 9:52 AM 12/18/96, T.W. Hartnett wrote: >As far as some people's expressed concern on the "static" nature of >Fripp's looping work, I think it's a somewhat unavoidable part of the >process he uses in creating the loops. A lot of Torn's work is edited in >the studio, which gives a lot more flexibility in arrangement and >dynamics. Given that most people have only one loop device in their rig, >you're going to be limited to adding information into the loop. Even if >you've got an Echoplex, the Undo feature isn't going to allow you >introduce a radical, appealing change to what you're doing. It just lets >you remove the last layer or two, depending on how much memory you've got >installed. That's not much of a compositional manuever, and unless >you've specifically planned an overdub to be removed for effect, I doubt >that Undo really functions as other than a "Whoops!" button for most >people. I avoid using it because maybe one in 20 loops strike me as >fatally flawed. I've already confessed that I know practically zipp about fripp, but I do know a bit about undo and non-static loops. When we talk about looping and its techniques, we are really discussing a musical instrument and an amorphous set of techniques to employ upon it. We may even be talking about a whole form of music. What happens when a new device is introduced to our vocabulary? What is a function like Undo good for? How might we use it? Is it really, as you say, a "Whoops button for must people?" Are we most people? How many rhetorical questions can I ask in a row? Think about this: When a musician first learns how to play a G major scale, do they immediately unleash a torrent of hip altered-G post-bob lines? Certainly not. If they ever do, its because some clues, instruction, examples, and inspirations pointed them along that path. And what about the path? Who or what inspired the examples? What were the examples that led to inspiration? Guitars were first amplified so that they could be heard over the louder instruments in the increasingly larger swing bands of the 30's and 40's. Made life easier for those who's thumbs weren't as callous-endowed as Freddie Green's. People at the time wondered what the point was since banjo's were loud enough, and served the same rhythmic purpose as guitars. Those weren't the folks who brought us the electric guitar lexicon we have today! Fortunately, we had people like Charlie Christian, Les Paul, Chuck Berry, Jimi Hendrix, and a thousand others showing the way. The Robert Fripps and David Torns don't pop out of nowhere. They absorb the existing knowledge and add unique pieces of their own, broadening the whole. Looping, as a musical language, is barely in its infancy. The Jamman is about 3 years old. The Echoplex's 2 year anniversary recently passed. Previous versions of the echoplex are maybe 5-6 years old. Throw in assorted delays and tape systems and we can scrape together 20-30 years of rather meager historical pickings. Do any of us really know how to use these devices yet? Most of the looping vocabulary is only just being created and explored, and we can certainly look forward to many revolutions and innovations in the future. Those will come by us taking a step further than those who came before, and seeing possibilities where others saw limitations. You haven't owned your echoplex for very long; none of us really has. Same with Jamman's and hard disks and all the rest. If you keep at it, you will keep learning and developing new techniques for a long time. Hopefully, we can come together and share our discoveries and develop the art together. Most importantly, before we decide that a technique is too limited for our needs, or that we can't do what we like with the available tools, we need to look up a bit a see if maybe others haven't already shown the way. You've decided that undo is only useful for fixing mistakes. It is useful for that. Creatively applied, it's also useful for much more. I'm certainly no master, but I've discovered some uses that I think are pretty interesting. A dense loop can be reduced to its simpler beginnings fairly quickly with successive applications of Undo. One thing I like to do is to start with a simple looping theme, and overdub layers to give it a particular character. I'll then undo the layers to get back to the basic theme. Then I'll start overdubbing again to build the loop in a new way. Undo it again and rebuild. Sometimes I'll undo the layers slowly, sometimes quickly. Sometimes I won't go all the way back, leaving an element in for the new loop. I'm purely an improv player, but this seems like a useful compositional device to me. And in fact, I know of people who have composed that way. You are seeking ways to make loops that are not static, that can change quickly. Undo on the echoplex offers something here, but there are other ways. Feedback control is the most obvious. Turn the feedback down, and as your old loop fades, turn overdub on and begin developing it into something totally new. I encourage you to explore this technique a lot, as it is one of the most important in the limited loop vocabulary we have so far. For long loops, Matthias taught me the way to evolve things quickly. On the echoplex you can change the loop length by using the Multiply-Record combination. Do that to shorten the long loop to a small one containing an obvious theme. While reducing the feedback, begin overdubbing for a new loop. Either use just the overdub function or use multiply to get something longer. With some practice, you'll find it's easy to make smooth transitions from one loop to something totally new in a short amount of time, even when using long loops. Another obvious way to get the static cling out of your loops, is by using the multiple loop features found on both the jamman and echoplex. The simplest thing is to record one thing in loop 1, another thing in loop 2, something else in loop 3, etc, etc, and then switch between them. Maybe add a few overdubs here and there. Even better is to combine multiple loops with undo and loop copying. Start off with a simple theme in loop 1. Copy it to loop 2, and add some assortment of overdubs there. Switching between the two lets you easily add and remove your overdub layers. (quantized loop switching helps a lot here) Copy 1 to 3 and add a different set of overdubs. Now you have three variations to switch between. Copy loop 3 to loop 4, return to 3 and undo a few layers of overdub. Add some new stuff and copy it to loop 5. Suddenly you have all sorts of ways to vary your loops quickly, just by pressing nextloop. Explore, explore, explore. Loopers have lots of depth, both unto themselves and in what they can draw from you. Don't limit yourself so soon! See what you can find and let us know about it, so that we can learn too. >I don't think it's possible to have improvised looping ever match the >shifting dynamics of edited studio work. Even if you had multiple loops >available to you (say four 32 second loops) with the ability to mix them >in and out, how well could you keep track of what's going on, and how >good of a job could you do, in real-time, towards organizing it into a >structured piece? It's a noble goal, but in the same way that you can't >improvise a concerto, I don't think it's possible to whip up a coherent >piece in public. I wasn't attracted to looping so that I could >cut-and-paste instrumental songs on the fly--I wanted to chase longer >forms and textures, in a raga-esque manner. And here we discover that our different tribes of loopers are not paying much attention to each other. Hip-hop and techno dj's regularly employ radically shifting textures and dynamics as part of their looping vocabulary. Remix artist are also leaving the studios in droves to practice their often amazing loop chops live. These guys (and gals) seem to have no trouble maintaining numerous musical threads, constantly pulling them in and out of loops as part of their musical constructions. I don't have to think about whether its possible to do this live or not, because I've watched people doing it. There's a rich vocabulary there to explore, full of techniques not generally seen in the fripp side. Perhaps the question is not what's beyond Fripp, but what's already here, running along side-by-side? To really define and develop looping as a form, and to push it forward, means to pull together all these disparate influences and learn what we can. Mix it all up, pull the good bits out and make something new. Expand your horizons. We've got Glass, Reich, Fripp, Torn, Alex Patterson, Jack Dangers, Jourgensen, Laswell, dj Shadow, The Bomb Squad, Reznor, dj Spooky. Just a few off the top of my head and they're all totally different from each other. I haven't listened to all that list, have you? And there are so many other important innovators, all contributing to our loop language. Keep your mind open to what they have to say! kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Dec 24 12:12:47 1996 >From kflint Tue Dec 24 04:12:59 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vcVj9-000570-00; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 04:12:59 -0800 Message-Id: <12897.199612241212@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 12:12:25 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr M. P. Hughes) Subject: looping techniques (was Re:Beyond Fripp) Resent-Message-ID: <"G16WCC.A.9vE.Oi8vy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1487 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 04:12:59 -0800 X-UIDL: f7428ce4e6c5abc38b4b2ac972d10a7e >Think about this: When a musician first learns how to play a G major scale, >do they immediately unleash a torrent of hip altered-G post-bob lines? Is that post-bob as in post- Bob Fripp? > Those weren't the folks who brought us the electric guitar lexicon we have > today! Well I have a guitar lexicon. I thought you used an Oberheim. (Sorry, couldn't resist. It's Christmas) BTW one way of changing the structure - of possibly the precieved tempo - is to loop your chords but not your bassline (I guess most people do it the other way around). By changing the phrasing of the bassline you can achieve dramatic shifts without changing loop length or anything. I picked up on this when Glass' "Spaceship" from Einstein on the Beach was played on the radio. The piece builds in intensity without ever adding more instruments, just by varying the organ part beneath a "looped" choral part. Very impressive. Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Everything in moderation, including moderation" (Zen Proverb) From ???@??? Tue Dec 24 12:12:49 1996 >From kflint Tue Dec 24 05:41:01 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vcX6J-000754-00; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 05:40:59 -0800 Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 14:01:08 +0100 (MET) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Oups! Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"zAyqfD.A.PKG.bx9vy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1488 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 05:40:59 -0800 X-UIDL: ff7b6a4e7dc4ecb84d16725cbf6928a3 I'm sorry, habits die hard! k7 is a short way of saying cassette in french, becauseit sounds exactly the same. Lte us Just say that it is avalable. Anyone interested (if there is) can contact me.... And if i'm not too late, Merry Christmas to you all... Olivier Malhomme From ???@??? Tue Dec 24 12:12:55 1996 >From kflint Tue Dec 24 10:33:30 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vcbfM-0000kW-00; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 10:33:28 -0800 Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 13:29:12 -0500 From: RA336@aol.com Message-ID: <961224132909_69122118@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: looping /GIG! Resent-Message-ID: <"cOTINB.A.ng.AFCwy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1489 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 10:33:28 -0800 X-UIDL: 42c61e19b0b0a31cf2cddf05acf2f4de here's a good example of someone setting about utilizing heavy-duty and cross-discipline multiple looper guys in a fairly unusual context: Torn is on his way to Japan to work with Ryuichi Sakamoto... he will improvise (and loop) alongside djSpooky (scratching and looping what-not) and Ryuichi (piano) in front of a hand-picked 70 piece orchestra playing a new orchestral work by Sakamoto which is about *salvation*... this will be a many-leveled and multi-media event using video and will be taped for broadcast... there's also (i understand) a plan to send RS's piano performance out live over the internet as midi information for people to mess with... sounds fabulous, na? best wishes to all loopers for the season and the coming year! Robby Aceto From ???@??? Tue Dec 24 12:12:56 1996 >From kflint Tue Dec 24 10:44:43 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vcbq8-0001Mb-00; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 10:44:36 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 11:06:04 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Oups! Resent-Message-ID: <"yo3g9C.A.hFB.AQCwy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1490 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 10:44:36 -0800 X-UIDL: 5b036a3904c3b570645910068e5ed6cf >I'm sorry, habits die hard! >k7 is a short way of saying cassette in french, becauseit sounds exactly >the same. Don't apologize! I think that's a great term, and I'm going to start spreading it around. Though I admit that I thought you had released a 7" single, and just mis-typed. >Lte us Just say that it is avalable. Anyone interested (if there is) can >contact me.... I'd like to hear it! Let me know how... > >And if i'm not too late, Merry Christmas to you all... This is the looping list, so for us time is more circular than for most. Happy Holidays all.... ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Tue Dec 24 17:19:49 1996 >From kflint Tue Dec 24 12:30:04 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vcdU9-0006KS-00; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 12:30:01 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 12:23:14 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: looping techniques (was Re:Beyond Fripp) Resent-Message-ID: <"En2l8.A.sqF.KxDwy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1491 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 12:30:01 -0800 X-UIDL: 6cecac8cfacbb03c65b922ddcb9d6805 >>Think about this: When a musician first learns how to play a G major scale, >>do they immediately unleash a torrent of hip altered-G post-bob lines? > >Is that post-bob as in post- Bob Fripp? After 3am, I start developing verticle pyslexia... > >> Those weren't the folks who brought us the electric guitar lexicon we have >> today! > >Well I have a guitar lexicon. I thought you used an Oberheim. > >(Sorry, couldn't resist. It's Christmas) ho,ho,ho.....;-) > >BTW one way of changing the structure - of possibly the precieved tempo - >is to loop your chords but not your bassline (I guess most people do it the >other way around). By changing the phrasing of the bassline you can >achieve dramatic shifts without changing loop length or anything. I picked >up on this when Glass' "Spaceship" from Einstein on the Beach was played on >the radio. The piece builds in intensity without ever adding more >instruments, just by varying the organ part beneath a "looped" choral part. > Very impressive. > >Michael That's a cool idea. When I think about it, jazz players do that all the time. Have to give it a try, thanks... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Dec 24 17:19:53 1996 >From kflint Tue Dec 24 13:43:07 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vcecs-0001YU-00; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 13:43:06 -0800 Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 16:40:01 -0500 From: "Jason N. Joseph" <73311.213@compuserve.com> Subject: JamMan stereo? To: "Loopers' Delight" Message-ID: <199612241640_MC2-DE3-E9B6@compuserve.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"agMS_.A.2WB.H4Ewy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1492 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 13:43:06 -0800 X-UIDL: 9752f776120e55c2eddd6aadb0ec4bed Pardon the newbie question if this has been gone over before, but... Why the hell did the makers of the JamMan bother to put stereo outputs on the thing if everything it loops goes mono?? This has been VERY frustrating. Of course it's entirely possible there's something I'm doing wrong or something easy I can do to fix it... If anybody knows, let me know! If this has been gone over previously than please e-mail me privately so as not to clutter the list. Many many many thanks, Jason N. Joseph 73311.213@compuserve.com From ???@??? Wed Dec 25 23:59:21 1996 >From kflint Tue Dec 24 17:27:16 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vci7m-0001cA-00; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 17:27:14 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 17:23:28 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: JamMan stereo? Resent-Message-ID: <"GyHFyC.A.EcB.lKIwy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1493 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 17:27:14 -0800 X-UIDL: c6b201eac2a715be46e10e83a80e952a At 4:40 PM 12/24/96, Jason N. Joseph wrote: >Pardon the newbie question if this has been gone over before, but... > >Why the hell did the makers of the JamMan bother to put stereo >outputs on the thing if everything it loops goes mono?? This has >been VERY frustrating. Of course it's entirely possible there's >something I'm doing wrong or something easy I can do to fix it... > You're not doing anything wrong, that's the way it works. I think its a cruel marketing trick that Jon Durant would be happy to explain to you....:-) kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Wed Dec 25 23:59:23 1996 >From kflint Tue Dec 24 17:29:14 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vci9h-0001jZ-00; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 17:29:13 -0800 Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 17:28:01 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: ngold@mail.teleport.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199612241640_MC2-DE3-E9B6@compuserve.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Neil Goldstein Subject: Re: JamMan stereo? Resent-Message-ID: <"ULTXyB.A.ujB.rMIwy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1494 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 17:29:13 -0800 X-UIDL: e1d6d2f5e776c3c9d549c3fc7e86230a >Pardon the newbie question if this has been gone over before, but... > >Why the hell did the makers of the JamMan bother to put stereo >outputs on the thing if everything it loops goes mono?? This has >been VERY frustrating. Of course it's entirely possible there's >something I'm doing wrong or something easy I can do to fix it... > >If anybody knows, let me know! If this has been gone over previously >than please e-mail me privately so as not to clutter the list. > Send it publicly please. Neil ngold@teleport.com Portland, OR USA From ???@??? Wed Dec 25 23:59:24 1996 >From kflint Tue Dec 24 18:40:29 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vcjGe-0003vx-00; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 18:40:28 -0800 Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 21:38:07 -0500 From: KILLINFO@aol.com Message-ID: <961224213807_236951963@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Ho! Ho! Ho! Resent-Message-ID: <"DqLB7C.A.LoD.MPJwy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1495 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 18:40:28 -0800 X-UIDL: aaa73a4e2a24fd8fd9c28f06ff97c2ab Seasonal felicitations from...Ted Killian :-) From ???@??? Wed Dec 25 23:59:25 1996 >From kflint Wed Dec 25 03:14:12 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vcrHn-00073x-00; Wed, 25 Dec 1996 03:14:11 -0800 Date: 25 Dec 96 06:07:34 EST From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: icy blue Message-ID: <961225110733_100041.247_JHB72-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"EbGjrC.A.HjG.kuQwy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1496 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 03:14:11 -0800 X-UIDL: 78574ff445c9270dfb28c658285b9658 >k7 is a short way of saying cassette in french, because it sounds >exactlythe same. very simple, but it just didn't think of it ... there, I've learned something again! >And if i'm not too late, Merry Christmas to you all... to you too, Olivier, and to everybody else. No snow, but freezing cold and icy blue here in Germany. I'm listening to Michel Redolfi's "Sonic Waters" underwater music which makes a nice tropical ambience ... Michael Peters private: 100041.247@compuserve.com work: mp@harold-scholz.de http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters From ???@??? Wed Dec 25 23:59:28 1996 >From kflint Wed Dec 25 18:44:36 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vd5oB-0006Sf-00; Wed, 25 Dec 1996 18:44:35 -0800 Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 18:40:03 -0800 Message-Id: <199612260240.SAA07297@dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com> From: erwill@ix.netcom.com (James E Williamson) Subject: Re: JamMan stereo? To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Resent-Message-ID: <"60oJdD.A.dwF.EXewy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1497 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 18:44:35 -0800 X-UIDL: 6a068f9ac68a31cd057d8b7e7a7fc311 someone wrote: >Why the hell did the makers of the JamMan bother to put stereo >outputs on the thing if everything it loops goes mono?? This has >been VERY frustrating. Of course it's entirely possible there's >something I'm doing wrong or something easy I can do to fix it... > That, sir, is why I refuse to own a new Jamdude. I found the manual deceptive, and the VP of marketing for Lexland completely unhelpful in taking care of my problem. I would rather pay $700 for an Echoplex than $350 for a Jamdude. At least the Echoplex only has one input, and one output. I ended up selling my fully-expanded Jamdude to pay the down payment of a Roland xp80. I would love to hear what Mr Durant has to say about this feature of the Jamdude. -- James Eric Williamson - erwill@ix.netcom.com - erwill@heartland.bradley.edu One of Peoria's most obscure ambient blues musicians From ???@??? Thu Dec 26 13:29:59 1996 >From kflint Thu Dec 26 05:49:54 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vdGC1-0005uu-00; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 05:49:53 -0800 X-From_:74074.1316@CompuServe.COM Thu Dec 26 05:47:10 1996 Received: from arl-img-6.compuserve.com [149.174.217.136] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vdG9O-0005hF-00; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 05:47:10 -0800 Received: by arl-img-6.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id IAA14149; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 08:46:09 -0500 Old-Date: 26 Dec 96 08:44:57 EST From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: JamMan stereo? Message-ID: <961226134456_74074.1316_GHQ45-1@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: /usr/lib/sendmail Loopers-Delight-dist@annihilist.com failed X-Envelope-To: Loopers-Delight Sender: SmartList Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 05:49:53 -0800 X-UIDL: f43c4ad01935a4e0e88e13500e95a956 Hi Gang, Jason writes (and many echoes): >Why the hell did the makers of the JamMan bother to put stereo >outputs on the thing if everything it loops goes mono?? This has >been VERY frustrating. Of course it's entirely possible there's >something I'm doing wrong or something easy I can do to fix it... Very simple explanation here: The JamMan passes stereo through the box. So, when you are not at 100% Wet, the Dry signal will pass through in Stereo. For example, those of use who have our JamMen in a chain of effects, it will pass the stereo stuff through. Bummer that it won't record stereo, but nevertheless quite nice that it doesn't monofy that which is passing by. Dontcha think? And if you're not in such a set-up, simply use the jack labeled "mono". Also, for those people using multiple amplifiers, it sure is nice to have two outputs, even if it isn't "stereo". Nothing deceptive here at all, folks. No one EVER claimed it recorded in stereo. We simply wanted to make it as useful as possible in a variety of settings. Happy holidaze. Jon Durant From ???@??? Thu Dec 26 22:02:26 1996 >From kflint Thu Dec 26 14:47:12 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vdOZz-0002HC-00; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 14:47:11 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 14:40:07 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: JamMan stereo? Resent-Message-ID: <"UYkS3.A.SqB.g9vwy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1499 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 14:47:11 -0800 X-UIDL: 70f09ca3d782558f3fd0255cd49f2774 At 5:49 AM 12/26/96, Jon Durant wrote: >Hi Gang, > > >Jason writes (and many echoes): >>Why the hell did the makers of the JamMan bother to put stereo >>outputs on the thing if everything it loops goes mono?? This has >>been VERY frustrating. Of course it's entirely possible there's >>something I'm doing wrong or something easy I can do to fix it... > >Very simple explanation here: The JamMan passes stereo through the box. >So, when >you are not at 100% Wet, the Dry signal will pass through in Stereo. For >example, those of use who have our JamMen in a chain of effects, it will pass >the stereo stuff through. Bummer that it won't record stereo, but nevertheless >quite nice that it doesn't monofy that which is passing by. Dontcha think? And >if you're not in such a set-up, simply use the jack labeled "mono". I think stereo pass-thru like this can be useful in some situations, although I've never found that looping a stereo signal in mono is very satisfying. I don't think its a bad thing to have on a piece of gear. But.... >Nothing deceptive here at all, folks. No one EVER claimed it recorded in >stereo. >We simply wanted to make it as useful as possible in a variety of settings. Lexicon also doesn't go to great length to point out that the loop is only recorded in mono. When you see stereo ins and outs on a box, you tend to think it's a stereo device. Consequently, I've met a lot of Jamman users who thought they were buying a stereo looper and were quite upset to discover that they hadn't. That, I think, is deceptive. (or good marketing ;-) ) kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Dec 26 22:02:35 1996 >From kflint Thu Dec 26 15:54:30 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vdPd5-0006oz-00; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 15:54:27 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 15:49:43 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: dj loopers Resent-Message-ID: <"ci_5U.A.3QG.u-wwy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1501 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 15:54:27 -0800 X-UIDL: 35b5e5ecfb9fd7d97625038b51147085 At 3:20 AM 12/24/96, Dave Trenkel wrote: >Kim Flint writes: >>At 11:33 PM 12/17/96, JOHNPOLLOCK@delphi.com wrote: >>>Dave Trenkel wrote, in part, >>> >>>>on another subject, does anyone have any experience with the cheapo >>>>samplers that Roland, Yamaha, and (I think) Akai are coming out with? >> >>I saw some really hip demos of these dj oriented loopers at the Frankfurt >>trade show. I haven't had a chance to play with them myself, but I think >>they offer some interesting possibilities. A key difference from the >>echoplex/jamman/boomerang loopers is that these were designed specifically >>for dj/dance mix type musicians, and therefore they offer different sorts >>of features and a different sort of control interface. I think some >>interesting cross-breeding potential lies in there... >> >Could you be a little more specific? What was hip about the demos, what >makes them more specific to the dance/dj crowd? I fairly interested them, >but I haven't been able to get much info. Well, after several 9 hour days of demoing at the noisy, smoke-filled, overcrowded Frankfurt Musikmesse, my poor brain was not absorbing many specifics. However, I looked a bit and found some reasonably informative web sites: at the akai website: http://www.akai.com/akaipro/index.html we have info on the Remix16, a "Stereo DJ Phrase Sampler": http://www.akai.com/akaipro/Remix.html The Riff-O-Matic "Variable Tempo Phrase Sampler": http://www.akai.com/akaipro/Riff.html and the MPC3000 Midi Production Center: http://www.akai.com/akaipro/MPC3000.html The Remix16 is the more interesting one. It offers 16 pads for triggering phrases, a hold mode to loop samples, 4 track sequencer, monitoring to audition samples in headphones while playing, tap tempo, disk drive and scsi interface. It also has crossfade buttons to control input/output mix and a bend/scratch fader. For a given phrase you can input the number of beats and tempo and it will adjust the phrase to play it in time. It appears to have an interface designed for fast, live work, rather than a more involved menu-driven type. Also seems oriented towards syncing phrases to a beat and each other easily. It doesn't seem to offer overdubbing in the way we understand in from the echoplex/jamman/boomerang loopers. However, I think you can achieve something similar with the sequencing. So you might have a sequence using phrases 1-4, sample something new into phrase 5, and add it somewhere in the sequence. I'm not sure what the polyphony is, since the web page didn't go into that. Or you could just jam over the sequence with other phrases while scratching them and such. >From Roland, check the little blurb on the DJ-70mkII: http://www.rolandus.com/products/MI/MIprod_SS_S.html#DJ-70mkII or the phrase sampler MS-1 http://www.rolandus.com/products/MI/MIprod_SS_PS.html#MS-1 >I think that there's a really interesting crossover between the equipment >needs of the dance scene and looping. I've been using a Roland mc-303 drum >machine/sequencer/tone module lately, which was designed specifically for >the dance scene, and it's one of the best live-performance oriented pieces >of midi gear ever. A fairly intuitive interface, lots of real-time controls >(filters, envelopes, arpeggiator), and a pretty cool feature that allows >you to trigger sequences from the keyboard on top of any playing sequences, >kind of like a sampler, but the loops come out synched to the master >sequence. It's definitely designed to allow a lot of real-time modification >of sequenced material. And it also makes a great master-clock for the >JamMan. The MC-303 definitly has me intrigued. I think it was reviewed in keyboard recently, and it looked very cool. It looked like a great way to integrate a lot of techno/dance sounds and approaches into my music without spending a fortune on samplers and funky old analog synths. >>And since the dj subject has tentatively resurfaced, does anyone know any >>dj types that would be interested in joining the list? There is a whole >>world of looping in that genre, with an assortment of well developed >>techniques not found in the soundscape/guitar-loop variety that tends to >>get focused on here. I think some articulate dj types could give us a real >>interesting (and probably needed) perspective. >> >The liner-notes to DJ Spooky's records have some pretty interesting >thoughts on the african influence on the sampling/looping/manipulating >esthetic. Would it be a breach of copyright for me to quote some here? I think its ok to quote it, although probably iffy to reproduce the whole thing. I'd love to see it. He doesn't happen to list an email address or anything, does he? Maybe we could just ask him. Even better, maybe we could get him to join the list.... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Dec 26 22:02:34 1996 >From kflint Thu Dec 26 15:54:06 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vdPcj-0006nM-00; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 15:54:05 -0800 Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 15:50:58 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199612262350.PAA17015@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Gibson quote I found Resent-Message-ID: <"Ob-Do.A.pPG.i-wwy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1500 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 15:54:05 -0800 X-UIDL: eb6574d29422f251bb2cb68ddc8283a8 Apropos Echoplex. . . from Electric Guitars and Basses by Gruhn and Carter: "Gruhn aqnd Carter go on to describe the early experimental efforts in electrical instrument design in the 1920s. Gibson had an early prototype as early as 1924 but found it very difficult to sell its own corporate executives on the idea." from BAM 7/12/96 From ???@??? Fri Dec 27 13:07:54 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 27 06:26:22 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vddEq-0002e4-00; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 06:26:20 -0800 Date: 27 Dec 96 09:20:17 EST From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: JamMan stereo? Message-ID: <961227142017_74074.1316_GHQ68-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"n6btsC.A.jIC.ju9wy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1502 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 06:26:20 -0800 X-UIDL: ae2e24a5b5ff218d5ee1431c5837368d Kim writes: >Lexicon also doesn't go to great length to point out that the loop is only >recorded in mono. When you see stereo ins and outs on a box, you tend to >think it's a stereo device. Consequently, I've met a lot of Jamman users >who thought they were buying a stereo looper and were quite upset to >discover that they hadn't. That, I think, is deceptive. (or good marketing >;-) ) We have a major disagreement here. Having "stereo" inputs/outputs in the (relatively) inexpensive effects world has (almost) *never* indicated a "stereo" device. Look at all the multi-fx boxes, midiverbs, lxps, digidrecks, blah blah blahs. Most produce pseudo-stereo results. But NONE maintain a stereo image from the original stereo source. Many don't even pass stereo through the box. That's the way it is. And even today, there are only a couple of true stereo devices under $1000. >I think stereo pass-thru like this can be useful in some situations, >although I've never found that looping a stereo signal in mono is very >satisfying. I don't think its a bad thing to have on a piece of gear. >But.... Another area of disagreement over how useful stereo pass through can be. As an example of this, my rig is set up in such a way that an Echoplex with it's single jack wouldn't work. My effects run as follows: FX Out from Maverick Amp>JamMan1>LXP-15>>Vortex>>JamMan2>>FX Return Maverick/Lab Series amp. (>=mono;>>=stereo). This allows me to make a loop in JamMan 2 which has effected sounds, and play over the top with a different set of (stereo) effects. Can't do that with a Plex. The only way to get a similar result would be to get a Mixer. More money spent. Now who's being deceptive? Look: Everyone has a different take on what's important with these boxes. I don't think Oberheim were being deceptive in their marketing any more than Lexicon. The fact is that as a manufacturer you try to build a device that will be as useful in as many situations as possible. You ask questions. And you make decisions based around all the input you receive from the field (sales reps, stores, etc.) Sometimes you make the right call, sometimes you make the wrong call. But let me assure you that no one was trying to sell these boxes as something they weren't. (Hell, no one was trying to sell them, period!) From ???@??? Fri Dec 27 13:07:58 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 27 11:50:42 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vdiIg-0001bD-00; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 11:50:38 -0800 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <961227142017_74074.1316_GHQ68-1@CompuServe.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 11:47:51 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: JamMan stereo? Resent-Message-ID: <"XgAEV.A.gKB.UfCxy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1503 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 11:50:38 -0800 X-UIDL: e870a26d710c8dbf45f54ce2886b94d0 John Durant wrote: >Another area of disagreement over how useful stereo pass through can be. As an >example of this, my rig is set up in such a way that an Echoplex with it's >single jack wouldn't work. My effects run as follows: FX Out from Maverick >Amp>JamMan1>LXP-15>>Vortex>>JamMan2>>FX Return Maverick/Lab Series amp. >(>=mono;>>=stereo). This allows me to make a loop in JamMan 2 which has >effected >sounds, and play over the top with a different set of (stereo) effects. >Can't do >that with a Plex. The only way to get a similar result would be to get a >Mixer. >More money spent. Now who's being deceptive? chris chimes in with his 2 cents: My bro and I used to use a similar setup, with the JamMan with the Art SGX2000, which has a stereo effects loop (which occurs after all the other effects, in the signal path). Placing the Jam man here allowed us to play stereo sounds on top of mono loops -- I think this is DEFINTELY better than having only mono -- you can use only mono, if you want to -- and if someone bought the unit thinking it was a "true stereo" device, he/she better do his/her homework a little better next time. I imagine that if the Jam Man were "true stereo", it would cost significantly more -- and then there'd be folks griping about the price. Alas, you can't please everybody. I'm probably not the only one who would love to provide input/feedback/design specs for a customized looping device. And in all fairness, I have to say that the Echoplex DP is not far off from being an "ultimate looper", in my mind. Its MIDI implementation provides lots of potenitals, that I have only speculated about, and have not yet explored. It is obvious that a lot of thinking and musical experience went into its design. And maybe, one day, the bugs will be fixed....... - chris _____________________________________________________ Chris Chovit cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov AVIRIS Experiment Coordinator ph: (818) 354-8077 JPL M/S 306-336 FAX: (818) 393-4406 4800 Oak Grove Dr. pager #: (800) 759-8255 PIN 834-3869 Pasadena, CA 91109 _____________________________________________________ From ???@??? Fri Dec 27 19:41:00 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 27 19:03:16 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vdp3L-0001MO-00; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 19:03:15 -0800 Message-ID: <32C41D2D.C85@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 19:02:07 +0000 From: Anton Chovit Reply-To: antonc@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: JamMan stereo? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zcQa4C.A.5MB.L2Ixy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1505 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 19:03:15 -0800 X-UIDL: 703ffcc09dd62b30f5cb1f4c316df0e2 > John Durant wrote: > > >Another area of disagreement over how useful stereo pass through can be. As an > >example of this, my rig is set up in such a way that an Echoplex with it's > >single jack wouldn't work. My effects run as follows: FX Out from Maverick > >Amp>JamMan1>LXP-15>>Vortex>>JamMan2>>FX Return Maverick/Lab Series amp. > >(>=mono;>>=stereo). This allows me to make a loop in JamMan 2 which has > >effected > >sounds, and play over the top with a different set of (stereo) effects. > >Can't do > >that with a Plex. The only way to get a similar result would be to get a > >Mixer. > >More money spent. Now who's being deceptive? > > chris chimes in with his 2 cents: > > My bro and I used to use a similar setup, with the JamMan with the Art > SGX2000, which has a stereo effects loop (which occurs after all the other > effects, in the signal path). Placing the Jam man here allowed us to play > stereo sounds on top of mono loops -- I think this is DEFINTELY better than > having only mono -- you can use only mono, if you want to -- and if someone > bought the unit thinking it was a "true stereo" device, he/she better do > his/her homework a little better next time. I imagine that if the Jam Man > were "true stereo", it would cost significantly more -- and then there'd be > folks griping about the price. Alas, you can't please everybody. > > I'm probably not the only one who would love to provide > input/feedback/design specs for a customized looping device. And in all > fairness, I have to say that the Echoplex DP is not far off from being an > "ultimate looper", in my mind. Its MIDI implementation provides lots of > potenitals, that I have only speculated about, and have not yet explored. > It is obvious that a lot of thinking and musical experience went into its > design. And maybe, one day, the bugs will be fixed....... > > - chris > > _____________________________________________________ > Chris Chovit cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov > AVIRIS Experiment Coordinator ph: (818) 354-8077 > JPL M/S 306-336 FAX: (818) 393-4406 > 4800 Oak Grove Dr. pager #: (800) 759-8255 PIN 834-3869 > Pasadena, CA 91109 > _____________________________________________________ I agree with Chris. At least the JamNan passes a stereo signal through. In a sense, this creates another channel (psychoacoustic at least) if your original signal is heavily in stereo. With the SGX 2000 the JamMan makes a great soloing slapback (a la Gilmore) with distorted stereo signals. Chris and I have been experimenting with a JamMans &/or Echoplexs panned to separate channels, rather than worrying about a stereo sound field for the loopers. The spacial bounce from the individual channels is very groovy. Adding a vortex or DDL to loops can create stereo images separate from the mono sources and adds to the depth and complexity of the soundscape. ALTERNTIVE PERSPECTIVE Geez, I deal with a huge-ass tangle of cables as it is; if all effects were in true stereo our hassles would be doubled! From ???@??? Fri Dec 27 19:40:59 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 27 16:31:26 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vdmgM-00041q-00; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 16:31:22 -0800 Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 19:26:54 -0500 From: PMimlitsch@aol.com Message-ID: <961227192654_2020029221@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Synth Module for sale Resent-Message-ID: <"7FFwqB.A.RcD.QmGxy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1504 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 16:31:22 -0800 X-UIDL: e30af265348ae4e709cc31bd4d66cc5b I have a Kawai K1rII synth module for sale/trade. It's a few years old, bought new, and only used for aprox 1 week. At which time I parted with my guitar synth set-up to concentrate exclusively on Chapman Stick and non synth sound manipulation/looping. Reason for getting rid of it(aside from the fact that it's been sitting in the box for a few yrs. and I forgot about it) is to help finance the purchase (trade?) of an additional Jamman for my set up. Interested parties can email me directly. Thanks---Paul From ???@??? Sat Dec 28 03:57:53 1996 >From kflint Fri Dec 27 21:46:37 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vdrbQ-0006Y8-00; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 21:46:36 -0800 X-Sender: ccohen@popmail.voicenet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 00:47:10 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: ccohen@voicenet.com (Charles Cohen) Subject: Vortex quirk? Resent-Message-ID: <"mF6nI.A.0CG.8OLxy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1506 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 21:46:36 -0800 X-UIDL: 0da6cdb4e119b581b329de260100f630 Got a Vortex from Guitar Center as a result of reading this list, and like it alot. A question: I've noticed that several of the Vortex factory presets give essentially infinite repeat when feedback is at 64, although there is a noise build-up. This "feature" is not mentioned in the manual for these particular presets. When a thusly altered preset is then stored into a user register, the resultant register does not sound quite the same. The numbers all display correctly, but the "infinite repeat" is lost. Anyone shed some light? I'm not complaining mind you. For $150 I think it's a bargin just as it is. Just curious. Charles **** **** What's Charles up to? **** **** http://www.voicenet.com/~ccohen From ???@??? Sat Dec 28 16:09:37 1996 >From kflint Sat Dec 28 04:03:27 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vdxU6-00006D-00; Sat, 28 Dec 1996 04:03:26 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 03:57:37 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: JamMan stereo? Resent-Message-ID: <"mN8At.A.nB.NvQxy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1507 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 04:03:26 -0800 X-UIDL: 87feeaa8b4bafa55259934d03c50e713 At 9:20 AM 12/27/96, Jon Durant wrote: >Kim writes: >>Lexicon also doesn't go to great length to point out that the loop is only >>recorded in mono. When you see stereo ins and outs on a box, you tend to >>think it's a stereo device. Consequently, I've met a lot of Jamman users >>who thought they were buying a stereo looper and were quite upset to >>discover that they hadn't. That, I think, is deceptive. (or good marketing >>;-) ) > >We have a major disagreement here. Having "stereo" inputs/outputs in the >(relatively) inexpensive effects world has (almost) *never* indicated a >"stereo" >device. Look at all the multi-fx boxes, midiverbs, lxps, digidrecks, blah blah >blahs. Most produce pseudo-stereo results. But NONE maintain a stereo >image from >the original stereo source. Many don't even pass stereo through the box. That's >the way it is. And even today, there are only a couple of true stereo devices >under $1000. ooops. Looks like I hit more of a nerve than I intended to! No offense meant there, Jon. In a way, you're actually helping me illustrate my point. The whole reason I was motivated to spend years of my life studying engineering, becoming an electronics engineer, and getting into the music industry was out of frustration with the gear I had or considered buying. It was either poorly designed or it didn't do what I wanted. I decided to do it better myself. And I decided that if I was going to do it, I would do it from a musician's standpoint and create things that work well in musical situations. My whole approach was and is to not be complacent with things as they are. I'm not willing to say "That's the way it is." The music industry has a long history of dishonesty with their customers. A lot of poor quality junk gets passed off as more than it is. A lot of perfectly good products get passed off as more than they actually are, too. This pisses me off a lot. To me this is showing a huge amount of disrespect to the musician who buys that product. I hate that kind of attitude, and I've seen it a lot in the music industry. I certainly had a lot of disagreements with people at G-WIZ and Oberheim over this sort of thing. Either with engineers making compromises because they were too lazy or didn't care enough to do it right, or with marketing people stretching the truth real thin just to make a sale. Made me sick sometimes. And I don't think we were nearly as bad in that regard as some. I don't think of Lexicon as being in that questionable tradition. You may know better, I don't know. There is a long history of quality products from Lexicon, and I think that's something to be proud of. I don't think you or anyone else at that company ever set out to intentionally deceive their customers in the way some lesser corners of the industry do. Some of the other companies you alluded to are pretty guilty, though. I think the stereo question illustrates this quite well. I don't have any problem with a device that has stereo ins/outs but is actually mono. I think it's a reasonable compromise to get a product into a particular price range while maintaining versatility. I have a huge problem with not telling the customer/musician what they are getting. I think that if it looks like stereo, but really isn't, the customer should know before they buy it. Mostly it's not at all obvious. That's the way it is, and I think it sucks. My Rocktron Intellifex can be a case example. I bought it shortly after they came out, and it cost me a lot of money. It appeared to do what I wanted, and sounded really good to me. The selling point, though, was that Rocktron actually explicitly stated the sampling techniques and digital audio specs of the box. All the other companies at the time wouldn't do that, and seemed to expect me to be real impressed just because they used the word "digital." I was impressed with Rocktron's honesty and integrity about that. I did my homework, shopped around, and got the Rocktron. Everything about the Intellifex indicates it is stereo. But guess what? I later discovered that the inputs get summed to mono for the effects. In fact, if you use the Hush on your direct path, that gets monoized too. After digging deep in the manual just now, the only place this is indicated seems to be a signal flow diagram in the back. (They also didn't say anything about the giant wallwart, another thing that pisses me off) It seems to me that Rocktron was bragging up and down about the things that were actually good, while burying the shortcomings in the most obscure way they could. So now I have something that is still useful to me, but not as much as I had thought when I bought it. More reason to do it myself. The Jamman seems to do its thing just fine, and for the most part Lexicon seems to be quite forthcoming about its pros and cons. Yet there are people out there who buy them thinking it is stereo and are later disappointed to discover that the loop is actually mono. Apparently there is nothing indicating to these customers that they are not getting what they think they are getting. Lexicon is a company that seems to have a lot of integrity, so why does that happen? Lack of attention? Competitive pressure to be like the rest of the industry? I don't have a jamman, nor have I spent any length of time studying the way it's marketed and sold. So its probably a bit brash of me to say Lexicon is being deceptive here. Sorry if I riled you up a bit with that, Jon. No harm meant. But still, if the stereo ins and outs are just pass-through, are they labeled that way? Is it something you could obviously figure out from glancing through literature available in a typical music store? If not, that could be the source of confusion. I don't mean to be picking on the Jamman, or Lexicon, or you, Jon. As you pointed out, it happens all over the industry. I've watched these sorts of things happening right under my nose. And I see people get deceived by it all the time. I happen to come from a long line of high-minded opinionated bastards, and it's just a part of my nature to challenge the status quo. Its sort of like jousting windwills I guess. Or wallwarts maybe. But if we just put up with all the b.s. that happens in this industry, it won't be changing anytime soon. >>I think stereo pass-thru like this can be useful in some situations, >>although I've never found that looping a stereo signal in mono is very >>satisfying. I don't think its a bad thing to have on a piece of gear. >>But.... > >Another area of disagreement over how useful stereo pass through can be. Whoa, Jon. I don't think we're disagreeing here. Like I said, its a useful feature. Especially if you need to put a mono device in a stereo setup. Personally, I've found that stereo signals sound far better when looped in stereo than mono. I recently converted my rig to stereo, but I have to loop in mono because I still only have one echoplex. It sounds terrible to me, I'm not satisfied, and no pass through jacks are going to help. One of these days, the echoplexes I have on order will finally arrive, and true stereo loops will make me slightly more satisfied with the world than I am now. >(>=mono;>>=stereo). This allows me to make a loop in JamMan 2 which has >effected >sounds, and play over the top with a different set of (stereo) effects. >Can't do >that with a Plex. The only way to get a similar result would be to get a Mixer. >More money spent. Now who's being deceptive? Well I suppose that was deserved, if a bit unfair. The echoplex has mono in and mono out. Mono all the way through. That's all pretty obvious, just from looking at it. There may be other things about the echoplex that qualify as deceptive, but I don't think this does. It was originally designed quite some time ago, when stereo setups were not nearly so common. Accommodating stereo guitar racks wasn't high on the list. And if you look at the back of an echoplex, you'll see that it already has jacks going all the way across. (Plus that rugged internal power supply needs some room. Quite a bit more than those flimsy little jacks used for wallwarts. :-) ) Adding pass-through would have meant sacrificing some other functions to make room for the extra jacks, or making the mechanical design more complicated and expensive to manufacture. Low priority, didn't happen. Instead, we made it possible to link two (or more) of them together to get true stereo loops. Its not cheap, but at least its possible. > >Look: Everyone has a different take on what's important with these boxes. I >don't think Oberheim were being deceptive in their marketing any more than >Lexicon. Oberheim didn't actually do any marketing, so maybe they just didn't have an opportunity..... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sat Dec 28 16:09:40 1996 >From kflint Sat Dec 28 09:25:54 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0ve2W7-00051U-00; Sat, 28 Dec 1996 09:25:51 -0800 Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 12:24:27 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199612281724.MAA13983@shell.monmouth.com> X-Sender: andre@monmouth.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: andre Subject: Re: Synth Module for sale Resent-Message-ID: <"yYSL9.A._oE.neVxy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1508 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 09:25:51 -0800 X-UIDL: aa1df2a1f2efd2ef3a6b1dfed9a38b96 At 07:26 PM 12/27/96 -0500, you wrote: > I have a Kawai K1rII synth module for sale/trade. It's a few years old,bought new, and only used for aprox 1 week. At which time I parted with my guitar synth set-up to concentrate exclusively on Chapman Stick and non synth sound manipulation/looping. Reason for getting rid of it(aside from the fact >that it's been sitting in the box for a few yrs. and I forgot about it) is to help finance the purchase (trade?) of an additional Jamman for my set up.Interested parties can email me directly. Thanks---Paul if i may be so rude, let me interject that this is a GREAT module - i've had one for years and i trigger it from my casio mg510 usually, sometimes it's driven by a sequencer or drumpad. anyway - lots of great sounds right outta the box, a very interesting hybrid synth programming method - you build sounds from a large "table" of sample waveforms - from basic sine, square and sawtooth waves to dozens of basic instrument waves. It's basically an "additive synthesis" architecture - which by now is pretty prevalent. There's also a credit card-style slot for prog cards - still available from some dealers but i hear there's tons of sounds online. Anyway - it's a weird, twisted sounding machine with lots of user control- andre From ???@??? Sat Dec 28 16:09:41 1996 >From kflint Sat Dec 28 14:55:18 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0ve7eu-0006h8-00; Sat, 28 Dec 1996 14:55:16 -0800 Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 14:38:03 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Happy Holidays/Boomerang writeup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"4xyYiD.A.LNG.vTaxy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1509 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 14:55:16 -0800 X-UIDL: 71c507ff257524878dbadc06ce7415e0 Happy H-days and such, people. (After a week or so off-line, I've started to develop withdrawl symptoms.) One bit here froma while ago: On Sun, 22 Dec 1996, Kim Flint wrote (regarding the Boomerang): > Also, Guitar Player did a review of it a few months back > that was pretty favorable. I don't remember which issue, anyone know? The Los Lobos cover issue -- I think it was October '96. I looked it over and didn't see anything that seemed to contradict the information that's been tossed around the list of late. --Andre From ???@??? Sun Dec 29 13:14:45 1996 >From kflint Sun Dec 29 05:09:17 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0veKzM-0003dn-00; Sun, 29 Dec 1996 05:09:16 -0800 Date: 29 Dec 96 08:04:11 EST From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: (final?) JamMan stereo? Message-ID: <961229130411_74074.1316_GHQ40-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"kNZu3.A.EXD.J0mxy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1510 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 05:09:16 -0800 X-UIDL: 915ba14184e02f97d30b03c5188f05db OK, here's a thought for the Holiday season in which we find ourselves: Enough of the slagging. It's way too easy to get bogged down in it, and it doesn't gain anyone anything, except a nice big ego. (And, yes I'm as guilty as anyone, so I've already slapped myself on the face!) Now that we've all had our say about relative plusses and minuses attributed to the stereo/mono issues, and nearly any other Jam/Plex issues, I'd like to propose the following new years toast (a day or so early): "Let's all recognize that none of these devices are perfect. Let's all recoginize that we all have significant investments in these devices, both emotional and financial. Let's all recognize that this list can be a valuable source for putting our own indeas/wishes on (paper), in the hopes that someone with the resources and and manufacturing abilities might care to pick up on them. But mostly, let's all REJOICE in what we do have. Four years ago we didn't have any of this, the JamMan/Echoplex/Whatever, and now we do. Our lives are significantly enhanced from these (imperfect) devices, so let us give thanks for a minute rather than complain about what they can't do. And let us all revel in many hours of contented looping in 1997." Glass (pint, Boddingtons) raised and offered, Jon Durant From ???@??? Sun Dec 29 13:14:53 1996 >From kflint Sun Dec 29 12:10:30 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0veRYy-0005VQ-00; Sun, 29 Dec 1996 12:10:28 -0800 Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 15:07:40 -0500 From: Dpcoffin@aol.com Message-ID: <961229150740_576757924@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: (final?) JamMan stereo? Resent-Message-ID: <"ykWL3C.A.9DF.L_sxy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1511 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 12:10:28 -0800 X-UIDL: 0196250fcdcddfc11dde7dde35c3940c Hello, Loopers A question: I'm LONGING to get into extended stereo looping, and currently saving up fer a pair of Echoplexes with a foot pedal (is there any cheaper path?) and possibly a litle rack-mound 6-channel mixer for my three guitar outputs/signal chains (I've got a custom guitar, sort of a Godin synth-access knock-off, to describe it briefly--it's really MUCH cooler than THAT!)... Anyway, I keep thinking "Wait a minute, here. For about the same money I could get one of these new digital multi-tracks (either hard disk or Mini-disc), with their repeat and instant-locate features, and trade off all the delay-based virtues or the loopers against the editing control of a multi-track. I could probably even trick up some MIDI functions with a pedal and get some automation going on." So, folks...Am I way off here? ARE the delay things (variable feedback,etc) and performance controls SO cool that I'm off-base? I play entirely at home, but in a virtually all improvisational, real-time mode, and so far haven't done much editing of tapes beyond fade-ins and outs... Many thanks for your thoughts, on this and all the other matters that seem to concern the list members. Gratefully, David From ???@??? Sun Dec 29 13:25:37 1996 >From kflint Sun Dec 29 13:25:58 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0veSk1-0000HD-00; Sun, 29 Dec 1996 13:25:57 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 13:20:37 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: (final?) JamMan stereo? Resent-Message-ID: <"qM2KwC.A.OJ.AFuxy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1512 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 13:25:57 -0800 X-UIDL: bd00a7ee7a9f3415ce4f96f49ed6c7e5 At 8:04 AM 12/29/96, Jon Durant wrote: >"Let's all recognize that none of these devices are perfect. Let's all >recoginize that we all have significant investments in these devices, both >emotional and financial. Let's all recognize that this list can be a valuable >source for putting our own indeas/wishes on (paper), in the hopes that someone >with the resources and and manufacturing abilities might care to pick up on >them. But mostly, let's all REJOICE in what we do have. Four years ago we >didn't >have any of this, the JamMan/Echoplex/Whatever, and now we do. Our lives are >significantly enhanced from these (imperfect) devices, so let us give >thanks for >a minute rather than complain about what they can't do. And let us all revel in >many hours of contented looping in 1997." Splendidly said.... >Glass (pint, Boddingtons) raised and offered, >Jon Durant Cheers! kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Dec 29 16:53:03 1996 >From kflint Sun Dec 29 14:10:36 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0veTRC-0001lO-00; Sun, 29 Dec 1996 14:10:34 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 14:05:57 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: stereo, mini/hard disk looping (was that other thing) Resent-Message-ID: <"AO6EiB.A.OhB.dvuxy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1513 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 14:10:34 -0800 X-UIDL: 5242bd52e23c567541d0377e3d0eae76 At 3:07 PM 12/29/96, Dpcoffin@aol.com wrote: >Hello, Loopers >A question: I'm LONGING to get into extended stereo looping, and currently ... >Anyway, I keep thinking "Wait a minute, here. For about the same money I >could get one of these new digital multi-tracks (either hard disk or >Mini-disc), with their repeat and instant-locate features, and trade off all >the delay-based virtues or the loopers against the editing control of a >multi-track. I could probably even trick up some MIDI functions with a pedal >and get some automation going on." I would guess that's not as easy to do as you might hope. Check into it though, I'd like to know if it's possible. >So, folks...Am I way off here? ARE the delay things (variable feedback,etc) >and performance controls SO cool that I'm off-base? I play entirely at home, >but in a virtually all improvisational, real-time mode, and so far haven't >done much editing of tapes beyond fade-ins and outs... I think what you are saying here about your playing will give you the answer. You play in an improvisational, real-time manner, you're going to want something that works well in that context. I don't know enough about the latest hard/mini disk recorders to tell you that they won't work for you, but I seriously doubt that they were designed to handle real-time looping very well. They would probably work great for more constructed, studio type loops, but it sounds like that wouldn't be so satisfying to you. I encourage you to try both ways, and let us know the result. I think that the immediacy of the real-time controls in a jamman/echoplex looper will have you hooked pretty quick though! kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Dec 29 16:53:05 1996 >From kflint Sun Dec 29 14:10:45 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0veTRI-0001lr-00; Sun, 29 Dec 1996 14:10:40 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 14:06:00 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: vortex on the LD website Resent-Message-ID: <"jz3aMC.A.8hB.kvuxy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1514 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 14:10:40 -0800 X-UIDL: afd540eda8e8fcf470309b272969e4ba Hi folks- I've noticed that the collection of Vortex posts in the archive section of the web site gets a fairly large number of hits. (36 over the past three weeks, and rising) I think we must be one of the only places on the net with a significant amount of info on the subject, and all the search engines are pointing people there. So in the interest of making these vortex-seekers even better informed, could one of you Vortex fans collect all the recent postings about it so that we can update this file? The world will be grateful. So will I, since little contributions like that have made the Looper's Delight site a billion times better than I could have ever done by myself. And in keeping with this community service reminder, if you have anything you think would be interesting to add to the web site, please go ahead and send it in! If we each do a little bit, the whole will be a lot better! thanks, kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Dec 29 16:53:07 1996 >From kflint Sun Dec 29 15:46:07 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0veUvc-0004q3-00; Sun, 29 Dec 1996 15:46:04 -0800 Date: 29 Dec 96 18:40:35 EST From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: vortex on the LD website Message-ID: <961229234035_100041.247_JHB68-3@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"ln_-EB.A.odE.lJwxy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1515 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 15:46:04 -0800 X-UIDL: 37cde87ea14f6a6bd580a0cf796cdb57 > So in the interest of making these vortex-seekers even better informed, > could one of you Vortex fans collect all the recent postings about it so > that we can update this file? As usual, I volunteer to do the htmlizing and webpage-finishing of the Vortex post collection, so if anyone volunteers to do the collecting as Kim suggests, please put the messages together into a simple Ascii file and mail them to me (private email). Thanks!! Michael Peters private: 100041.247@compuserve.com work: mp@harold-scholz.de http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters From ???@??? Mon Dec 30 09:48:04 1996 >From kflint Sun Dec 29 21:29:52 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0veaIJ-0001lA-00; Sun, 29 Dec 1996 21:29:51 -0800 X-From_:jbstudio@flash.net Sun Dec 29 21:29:48 1996 Received: from flash.net [208.194.223.12] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0veaIC-0001kl-00; Sun, 29 Dec 1996 21:29:47 -0800 Received: from default (hsh7-129.flash.net [207.181.218.129]) by flash.net (8.8.3/8.7.5) with SMTP id QAA08582; Sun, 29 Dec 1996 16:46:32 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961229224949.0067bc10@flash.net> X-Sender: jbstudio@flash.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Old-Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 16:49:49 -0600 To: cakewalk@lists.colorado.edu, keverino@juno.com, kford@hal-pc.org, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, jbstudio@flash.net, multisound@lists.colorado.edu From: John Michael Beard Subject: X-Diagnostic: undecipherable, help sent X-Envelope-To: Loopers-Delight Sender: SmartList Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 21:29:51 -0800 X-UIDL: 8a711965e1dc965b3b6a9735be1d6be4 HAPPY NEW YEAR! "The present-day composer refuses to die!" Edgar Varese, 1921 John Michael Beard http://www.flash.net/~jbstudio From ???@??? Mon Dec 30 22:49:41 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 30 10:46:47 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vemjW-0002nv-00; Mon, 30 Dec 1996 10:46:46 -0800 Message-Id: <199612301844.KAA09248@scv1.apple.com> Subject: Re: JamMan misleading Date: Mon, 30 Dec 96 10:41:12 -0000 x-sender: attix@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Tom Attix To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"ClO7aC.A.CbC.i1Ayy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1518 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 10:46:46 -0800 X-UIDL: a0732ee7ed74423d6351ba50bb3915b3 >**Please don't insult my or any other consumer's intelligence by claiming >that >a) this is not misleading, and b) having "stereo" outs on the jamman when >looped output is in mono is in any way useful.** Speaking only for myself, I *DO* find the stereo outs useful, as i have 2 (other) stereo effects units in my effects chain. While I'm willing to admit that I'd love a true stereo JamMan, a really hate overly broad and incorrect generalizations. -Tom Attix ___________________________________________________________________________ attix@apple.com ___________________________________________________________________________ "If you play something different from the other robots, the other robots get mad. Robot shit." -Miles Davis From ???@??? Mon Dec 30 09:48:07 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 30 09:50:10 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0velqj-0007go-00; Mon, 30 Dec 1996 09:50:09 -0800 X-Sender: ccohen@popmail.voicenet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 12:46:36 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: ccohen@voicenet.com (Charles Cohen) Subject: general Vortex info Resent-Message-ID: <"A4smcB.A.P4G.W9_xy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1516 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 09:50:09 -0800 X-UIDL: e884076f1c70b7f0506cba64e88dee61 helpful discussions can be found at: http://www.hyperreal.com/music/machines/manufacturers/Lexicon/info/lexicon.V ortex plus a different one: http://www.hyperreal.com/music/machines/manufacturers/Lexicon/info/lexicon.v ortex **** **** What's Charles up to? **** **** http://www.voicenet.com/~ccohen From ???@??? Mon Dec 30 22:49:39 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 30 09:58:34 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0velyq-0000K7-00; Mon, 30 Dec 1996 09:58:32 -0800 Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 12:47:57 -0500 From: "Jason N. Joseph" <73311.213@compuserve.com> Subject: JamMan misleading To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Message-ID: <199612301253_MC1-DE3-D54C@compuserve.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"pb4z_D.A.PI.WIAyy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1517 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 09:58:32 -0800 X-UIDL: 37c2efeec8ee04b175c1ada9634ba885 Message text written by INTERNET:Loopers-Delight-d-request@annihilist.com >We have a major disagreement here. Having "stereo" inputs/outputs in the (relatively) inexpensive effects world has (almost) *never* indicated a "stereo" device.< Um, WRONG here, Mr. Durant. While up until about 3-5 years ago quite a lot of effects boxes crossed to mono SOMEWHERE in the effects chain, ALL of them, if they had stereo outs, DID have different signals in each output. The JamMan, however... Stereo outs with identical output in each (oh, except for the virtually useless input signal being passed through). This *IS* misleading, no doubt about it. **Please don't insult my or any other consumer's intelligence by claiming that a) this is not misleading, and b) having "stereo" outs on the jamman when looped output is in mono is in any way useful.** I apologize for being strong in my statements here but there is no defense for this intentional misleading or eggregious oversight. Just buck up, call a spade a spade, learn a lesson from this mistake and from the NON-misleading practices of EVERY other effects manufacturer out there. I fully accept responsibility for not "digging deep enough" in researching the JamMan to figure out that in fact it was NOT a stereo unit. However my entire point is that this should not be the struggling musician's job. If someone at Lexicon had bothered to be thorough in their a) advertising, b) unit labeling, and c) manual, then none of this crap would have occurred. Case in point: both Guitar Center and Musician's Friend, being major mailorder retailers of Lexicon products, *both* indicated, both in their printed advertising *and* in numerous conversations with supposedly knowledgeable sales people over the phone, that one of the major selling points of the JamMan was that it would loop in stereo. Now, if Lexicon WASN'T being misleading, why the hell did its retailers disseminate such supposedly obvious misinformation? And yet it's my fault for not figuring out that it was a mono unit before I bought it? Sorry to rant. Any flames in private please. jj jj From ???@??? Mon Dec 30 22:49:43 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 30 12:17:41 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0veo9U-0007Rh-00; Mon, 30 Dec 1996 12:17:40 -0800 Date: 30 Dec 96 15:12:25 EST From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: Paradis Loop Delay vs. Echoplex Message-ID: <961230201224_100041.247_JHB45-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"3dA3ID.A.NzG.vKCyy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1519 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 12:17:40 -0800 X-UIDL: d7be03d6f730a1ed1adeb8083de889ec hi Matthias, A friend of mine has managed to dig up a couple of Echoplexes - they're very hard to find here in Germany (the supply has stopped because they don't have one of these "CE" stamps on them which are required in the European union). I can't afford to buy one at the moment but I have one here to test for a couple of days. I played with it for an hour or two and at first glance, there are few Echoplex features which weren't in the old Paradis Loop Delay - the great reverse effect, of course, and the multiple loops are new. Probably also a number of MIDI and sync improvements which I don't need as long as I use it for real-time improvisation loops. What do you think are the most important differences between the two boxes? I own two Paradis Loop Delays now and I'm quite happy with them. Should I bother trying to sell them (which won't be easy, and I won't get a lot of money for them because nobody knows them) and buy an Echoplex instead? I'm not sure if reverse and multiple loops are reason enough. Also, I noticed that sometimes the reverse effect introduced clicks, but I'm not sure when. I seem to remember that this was mentioned on the list earlier but I don't remember what the answer was. Michael Peters private: 100041.247@compuserve.com work: mp@harold-scholz.de http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters From ???@??? Mon Dec 30 22:49:44 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 30 13:13:57 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vep1w-0002fS-00; Mon, 30 Dec 1996 13:13:56 -0800 Date: 30 Dec 96 16:09:22 EST From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: JamMan misleading Message-ID: <961230210922_74074.1316_GHQ105-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"_4ZQ0B.A.DUC.t_Cyy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1520 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 13:13:56 -0800 X-UIDL: 0539c7858c08bb396295ca4517b6eadd JJ rants: >Um, WRONG here, Mr. Durant. While up until about 3-5 years ago quite a lot >of effects boxes crossed to mono SOMEWHERE in the effects chain, ALL of >them, if they had stereo outs, DID have different signals in each output. >The >JamMan, however... Stereo outs with identical output in each (oh, except >for >the virtually useless input signal being passed through). This *IS* >misleading, >no doubt about it. Having different signals in each output is not stereo. If you were to make a loop of a stereo source in any of these devices, the original stereo input would be summed to mono, thus destroying the original stereo image. In the reverb programs of these devices, the reverbs did not maintain stereo image. Now, Digitech did come out with their TSR series (true stereo reverb) named specifically to point out that they are actually stero. Unless you want multiple effects, at which point memory gets shared, and processing power is limited, and you're back to pseudo stereo land. As for the "virtually useless input signal being passed through", I'll refer you to several people who have chimed in with their gratitude for this feature. >Case in point: both Guitar Center and Musician's Friend, being major >mailorder retailers of Lexicon products, *both* indicated, both in their >printed advertising *and* in numerous conversations with supposedly >knowledgeable sales people over the phone, that one of the major >selling points of the JamMan was that it would loop in stereo. Now, if >Lexicon >WASN'T being misleading, why the hell did its retailers disseminate such >supposedly obvious misinformation? And yet it's my fault for not figuring >out that it was a mono unit before I bought it? I'll refer you to several posts from the past year to give you my thoughts about the retailers. However: Lexicon neither writes nor has an opportunity to edit copy in Musician's Friend. (or any other mail order house) It is a constant source of frustration, but no one (either their local rep or Lex's sales managers) seems to be able to cure the problem. They do what they want (which is often wrong). As for GC, they have historically had the most turnover in sales staff, which leads to poor training, and bad information. Every manufacturer tears their hair out over this problem: they're the number one dealer in the country, and nobody gets decent information put across. Not Lexicon, not Oberheim, not Digitech, not Paul Reed Smith, not Korg,not anyone. So as a manufacturer, what can you do? Drop them and watch your sales drop by 30%? Try explaining that to the shareholders. You're quite correct: it's not your fault that you were given incorrect information from these retailers. And I'm personally very sorry if you feel that you were mislead. However: if you can find a piece of advertising material from Lexicon (not from a retailer) that indactes that it is a stereo looper, (or any other kind of stereo anything) than I'll accept that Lexicon is guilty of putting forth misleading information. What was always said was that it was a 32 second (w/optional memory upgarde, 8 sec standard) looper/echo/sampler. Which is what it is. Mono or stereo was never discussed. No review ever errantly claimed it was stereo. (Or whined that it wasn't.) So at worst they're guity by omission. Just like every other manufacturer in the MI world. BTW, when anyone called MY office and asked the mono/stereo question, they were told in no uncertain terms that it loops in mono, but passes through stereo. Can't vouch for anything post February 96 since I've been gone since, but I never heard anyone call it stereo while I was there. Jon Durant From ???@??? Mon Dec 30 22:49:49 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 30 16:06:06 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0veriX-0003Ly-00; Mon, 30 Dec 1996 16:06:05 -0800 Date: Mon, 30 Dec 96 16:07:49 CST From: "Todd Madson" Message-Id: <9611308519.AA851990962@ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com> To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Vortex Applications Notes [Redux] Resent-Message-ID: <"NtuPUD.A.C-C.ugFyy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1521 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 16:06:05 -0800 X-UIDL: 7ad325545caf7d2d7526714b83c90d5f Hi all: Sorry I've been so tardy and awful about getting the Vortex App notes up. I promise to soon, however, I've been swayed by a most wonderful applications program called Deck II by Macromedia (multi-channel hard disk recording for the PowerMac) and it's EXCELLENT. In other words, multi-track, CD quality, digital hard disk recording with NO ADDITIONAL HARDWARE. My looping overfloweth. In fact, Deck II is so amazing that it actually means I can do real, stereo, multi-tracking instead of my usual 4-track "some tracks are mono, some are stereo" demos. I can even take a phrase I like and loop it indefinetely. It's superb. I'm also aware of Cubase VST, but it has a hungrier appetite for RAM memory than my home machine is able to provide at present. If you want info on this, let me know - I've found rather cool web-sites discussing it. Any Mac owners MUST pick-up the January issue of MacAddict as the included CD-ROM includes a fully functional (except you can't save your work) version of Deck II and SoundEdit 16 (among other expensive cool sound type apps). Now, I will be entering the much desired notes on the net here soon - I just need to take the time and DO it. Please be patient. Vortices to you all. Todd Madson. From ???@??? Mon Dec 30 22:49:54 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 30 18:54:28 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0veuLT-0003Io-00; Mon, 30 Dec 1996 18:54:27 -0800 Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 21:44:58 -0500 (EST) From: JOHNPOLLOCK@delphi.com Subject: Stereo!? Help, Please! To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Message-id: <01IDMWRXIO8Y8Y7WWO@delphi.com> X-VMS-To: INTERNET"Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Resent-Message-ID: <"_pnlVD.A.wsC.w4Hyy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1524 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 18:54:27 -0800 X-UIDL: dd8e8c3ba59b4ef291bfd3f1e194fefb The recent, enlightening discussion of stereo has rekindled my desire for something better than my basic beerjoint-mono sound system. So I'm in a pawnshop today, and what to my wondering eyes should appear but an Akai MB76 MIDI-controlled, 7in-6out mixing bay-- at an amazingly low price. About 30 seconds of skull sweat later, I realized it would be perfect for my purposes. Problem: There's no manual, the user interface is minimal, and I'm hesitant to gamble without knowing enough about it to verify that it works. Does anyone have any direct knowledge of this unit? Alternatively, can you point me to a Web site, Usenet group, or mailing list where I might find out more? TIA, John mailto:johnpollock@delphi.com Troubador Tech on the Web-- http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock From ???@??? Mon Dec 30 22:49:52 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 30 18:52:06 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0veuJA-0003C4-00; Mon, 30 Dec 1996 18:52:05 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 19:04:52 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: dj loopers Resent-Message-ID: <"HBVud.A.ohC.u0Hyy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1522 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 18:52:05 -0800 X-UIDL: 69a1b274dc7691e8301db6ff656fe259 Thanks for the info, re: DJ-oriented samplers/loopers, I''' try to check some out next time I'm in a city Kim Flint wrote: > >The MC-303 definitly has me intrigued. I think it was reviewed in keyboard >recently, and it looked very cool. It looked like a great way to integrate >a lot of techno/dance sounds and approaches into my music without spending >a fortune on samplers and funky old analog synths. > It's an interesting box, definitely try to spend some time with one before commiting to it, it's got a very quirky interface, I love it, but some people get frustrated very quickly with it. It won't replace the funky old analog synths, at least not to my ears, but it does complement analog synths well, and it's the only sample playback synth I've ever gotten excited about. The filters sound great, some of the best digital filters I've ever heard. While there are tons of techno/dance/jungle/whatever preprogrammed patterns in the box, some of them almost frighteningly hip, it lends itself to other kinds of music as well, especially Germanic synth/space/prog ala kraftwerk/T-dream/Pete Namlook. (that last sentence has to win some kind of award for the most /'s without quoting a web address). However, if you plan to integrate it into a computer midi system, it's got some wierd quirks that make it less desirable. My normal use is to develop interesting sounds/loops/beats on it and record the audio to hard disk instead of controlling it via midi. > >>>And since the dj subject has tentatively resurfaced, does anyone know any >>>dj types that would be interested in joining the list? There is a whole >>>world of looping in that genre, with an assortment of well developed >>>techniques not found in the soundscape/guitar-loop variety that tends to >>>get focused on here. I think some articulate dj types could give us a real >>>interesting (and probably needed) perspective. >>> >>The liner-notes to DJ Spooky's records have some pretty interesting >>thoughts on the african influence on the sampling/looping/manipulating >>esthetic. Would it be a breach of copyright for me to quote some here? > >I think its ok to quote it, although probably iffy to reproduce the whole >thing. I'd love to see it. He doesn't happen to list an email address or >anything, does he? Maybe we could just ask him. Even better, maybe we could >get him to join the list.... > no e-mail on his records. His label (Asphodel) is at http://www.wilder.net/stc/asphodel/index.html I'm especially thinking of some material from the 40-some page book that accompanies his "Death in the Light of the Phonograph" disc. I'll type up the quotes when I get some time, next week probably. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Mon Dec 30 22:49:50 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 30 18:52:02 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0veuJ8-0003Bt-00; Mon, 30 Dec 1996 18:52:02 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 19:05:04 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Vortex Applications Notes [Redux] Resent-Message-ID: <"qSiEw.A.tiC.50Hyy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1523 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 18:52:02 -0800 X-UIDL: b8aff5e2183e747128d402ed8c14ac7f >Hi all: > >Sorry I've been so tardy and awful about getting the Vortex App notes up. I >promise to soon, however, I've been swayed by a most wonderful applications >program called Deck II by Macromedia (multi-channel hard disk recording for >the PowerMac) and it's EXCELLENT. > >In other words, multi-track, CD quality, digital hard disk recording with >NO ADDITIONAL HARDWARE. > >My looping overfloweth. In fact, Deck II is so amazing that it actually >means I >can do real, stereo, multi-tracking instead of my usual 4-track "some >tracks are >mono, some are stereo" demos. > >I can even take a phrase I like and loop it indefinetely. It's superb. > I remember that first flush of joy at using Deck well, suddenly it seems that you have incredible power. Deck is a great piece of software, not without quirks and even a few bugs, but very powerful. I edited and mastered our first CD on it 18 momths ago, and now we're working on the 2nd. >If you want info on this, let me know - I've found rather cool web-sites >discussing it. Any Mac owners MUST pick-up the January issue of MacAddict >as the included CD-ROM includes a fully functional (except you can't save >your work) version of Deck II and SoundEdit 16 (among other expensive cool >sound type apps). > Do you know about the deck-users list? It's very handy. >Now, I will be entering the much desired notes on the net here soon - I just >need to take the time and DO it. > Great, I expect my Vortex to arrive any day now... ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Tue Dec 31 09:56:48 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 30 22:55:35 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vey6n-00057r-00; Mon, 30 Dec 1996 22:55:33 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 03:14:10 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: tropical ambience Resent-Message-ID: <"4V37lD.A.0tE.TiLyy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1525 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 22:55:33 -0800 X-UIDL: c7a23450f4d711a09884f37f54a67b08 Michael was listening to: >Michel Redolfi's "Sonic Waters" >underwater music which makes a nice tropical ambience ... Sounds very interesting (I guess I say that a lot...) Matthias From ???@??? Tue Dec 31 09:56:50 1996 >From kflint Mon Dec 30 23:13:50 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0veyOU-00063u-00; Mon, 30 Dec 1996 23:13:50 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 23:10:11 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: dj loopers Resent-Message-ID: <"CvJGj.A.XnF.szLyy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1526 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 23:13:50 -0800 X-UIDL: 7cbf7ef1f2e3f00725997d7ac2f63f43 At 7:04 PM 12/30/96, Dave Trenkel wrote: >> >>>>And since the dj subject has tentatively resurfaced, does anyone know any >>>>dj types that would be interested in joining the list? There is a whole >>>>world of looping in that genre, with an assortment of well developed >>>>techniques not found in the soundscape/guitar-loop variety that tends to >>>>get focused on here. I think some articulate dj types could give us a real >>>>interesting (and probably needed) perspective. >>>> >>>The liner-notes to DJ Spooky's records have some pretty interesting >>>thoughts on the african influence on the sampling/looping/manipulating >>>esthetic. Would it be a breach of copyright for me to quote some here? >> >>I think its ok to quote it, although probably iffy to reproduce the whole >>thing. I'd love to see it. He doesn't happen to list an email address or >>anything, does he? Maybe we could just ask him. Even better, maybe we could >>get him to join the list.... >> >no e-mail on his records. His label (Asphodel) is at >http://www.wilder.net/stc/asphodel/index.html > >I'm especially thinking of some material from the 40-some page book that >accompanies his "Death in the Light of the Phonograph" disc. I'll type up >the quotes when I get some time, next week probably. Also on that site is a text by Paul Miller (DJ Spooky). I can't tell you anything about it yet, because I'm just starting to read it, but you can see it yourself at: http://www.wilder.net/stc/asphodel/milledi.html kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Dec 31 09:56:56 1996 >From kflint Tue Dec 31 04:24:51 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vf3FT-0006pC-00; Tue, 31 Dec 1996 04:24:51 -0800 Date: 31 Dec 96 07:19:14 EST From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: tropical ambience Message-ID: <961231121914_100041.247_JHB99-4@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"di3x1B.A.KUG.bVQyy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1527 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 04:24:51 -0800 X-UIDL: 19214b612855eb89e063c0ca97b509b3 > Michael was listening to: >> Michel Redolfi's "Sonic Waters" underwater music which makes a nice tropical ambience ... > Sounds very interesting (I guess I say that a lot...) hi Matthias, now *you're* about the last person of us who needs tropical ambience from a CD !! Michel Redolfi makes music in electronic studios using high-end synclaviers and such stuff. His music is very abstract and beautiful. He also uses loops sometimes! If I should name a favorite composer, Redolfi might be the one for me. If anyone's interested, check out http://www.imaginet.fr/manca/cirm/english/bio/mr_bio/index.html Michael Peters private: 100041.247@compuserve.com work: mp@harold-scholz.de http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters