From ???@??? Mon Sep 02 04:49:19 1996 >From kflint Sun Sep 1 23:31:04 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0uxSXF-000614-00; Sun, 1 Sep 1996 23:31:01 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0uxSaq-0002yq-00; Sun, 1 Sep 1996 23:34:44 -0700 Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 23:34:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: finley@ecst.csuchico.edu (Matthew F. McCabe) Subject: greetings Resent-Message-ID: <"xlLxOC.A._yC.DAoKy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@slip.net X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/20 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@slip.net Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@chromatic.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 23:34:44 -0700 X-UIDL: 6ff3cb3093d64480ea89732d566deefe Greetings gentlemen! Is this list working????? ------------------------------------------------------------ King Never http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~finley/kingnever.html ------------------------------------------------------------ Matthew F. McCabe Able Cain King Never Marathon Records From ???@??? Mon Sep 02 21:26:44 1996 >From kflint Mon Sep 2 19:28:16 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0uxlDq-0007J6-00; Mon, 2 Sep 1996 19:28:14 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0uxlHP-0006GL-00; Mon, 2 Sep 1996 19:31:55 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 23:35:29 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: What a big moment! Resent-Message-ID: <"G3odYB.A.K4F.bi5Ky"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@slip.net X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/21 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@slip.net Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@chromatic.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 19:31:55 -0700 X-UIDL: 62176fc35fe23d255a5230ec69b84e8c We were really waiting for this, and big Kim made it possible! Well, is there anyone subscribed yet? I put "subscribe" in subject and body, as I always do... no problem! Everyone angry about all the bugs in the ECHOPLEX d/p? A lot of new ideas and nice sounds to present? I am ready to go and give whatever I can... Matthias From ???@??? Tue Sep 03 00:17:52 1996 >From kflint Mon Sep 2 22:00:05 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0uxnah-0001RE-00; Mon, 2 Sep 1996 22:00:00 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0uxneI-0003s9-00; Mon, 2 Sep 1996 22:03:42 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 22:02:01 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: What a big moment! Resent-Message-ID: <"YWsO8B.A.ioD.tw7Ky"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@slip.net X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/22 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@slip.net Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@chromatic.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 22:03:42 -0700 X-UIDL: 29d0f3c99485b112a37c5b4b4781e5f7 >We were really waiting for this, and big Kim made it possible! > >Well, is there anyone subscribed yet? >I put "subscribe" in subject and body, as I always do... no problem! > Ok! Matt and Matthias made it on! I guess its working well enough for a public announcement soon. There are a few weird little bugs that probably won't slow things down really, and I was hoping to re-write the generic text files that get sent to new subscribers first, but maybe there isn't any real need to wait. The texts I should be able to do tomorrow if the sysamin remembers to give me permissions for editing those. So are we ready? Where should we post about it? Places I can think of are the web page, door-x, the king crimson list, the digital guitar list, rec.music.*, alt.guitar, and boogie-talk. What others? kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | (currently content free!) http://www.annihilist.com/ | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html From ???@??? Tue Sep 03 09:50:42 1996 >From kflint Tue Sep 3 09:31:37 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0uxyNp-0005vd-00; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 09:31:25 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0uxyRI-0001Va-00; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 09:35:00 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 13:38:05 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: What a big moment! Resent-Message-ID: <"9CBNu.A.naB.04FLy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@slip.net X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/23 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@slip.net Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@chromatic.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 09:35:00 -0700 X-UIDL: cd23a7254b496bd39be9049e6dbea8ac >>I put "subscribe" in subject and body, as I always do... no problem! I just noted that when I made "reply" this mail was adressed to you personally, Kim, which I find confusing. It should go to the list, for my taste. And I am sure there is a way to change that on the server. > >Ok! Matt and Matthias made it on! I guess its working well enough for a >public announcement soon. There are a few weird little bugs that probably >won't slow things down really, and I was hoping to re-write the generic >text files that get sent to new subscribers first, but maybe there isn't >any real need to wait. > Did you like the idea to put "subscribe" in subject *and* body? Otherwhise you would have to clearly define where. >So are we ready? Where should we post about it? Places I can think of are >the web page, door-x, the king crimson list, the digital guitar list, >rec.music.*, alt.guitar, and boogie-talk. What others? Maybe the DAW people are interested: soundhack@shoko.calarts.edu ddesign@lists.uoregon.edu deckusers-l@teleport.com and the (analog) synth amateurs: synth-diy@horus.sara.nl There must be lists for electronic music, minimal music, healing music... The web page of ECHOPLEX and other manufacturers, maybe. Lexicon has no page, as far as I know. Maybe the Boomerang? Well, maybe in those places, there should be just the web page adress? And a lot more... Matthias From ???@??? Tue Sep 03 22:04:08 1996 >From kflint Tue Sep 3 10:04:40 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0uxytz-0006si-00; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 10:04:39 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0uxyxH-00038B-00; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 10:08:03 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 10:05:47 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: What a big moment! Resent-Message-ID: <"9aWZcB.A.i7C.rXGLy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@slip.net X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/24 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@slip.net Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@chromatic.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 10:08:03 -0700 X-UIDL: c30f3dc488c3c267394059d2019f2518 >>>I put "subscribe" in subject and body, as I always do... no problem! > >I just noted that when I made "reply" this mail was adressed to you >personally, Kim, which I find confusing. It should go to the list, for my >taste. And I am sure there is a way to change that on the server. Yeah, there must be a way to have Repy To: in the header. I'll try to figure it out. >Did you like the idea to put "subscribe" in subject *and* body? >Otherwhise you would have to clearly define where. > Yeah, that covers the possibilities. I need to re-write the help text that gets sent automatically if you send it a request it doesn't understand. Right now its not as helpful as it could be... >>So are we ready? Where should we post about it? Places I can think of are >>the web page, door-x, the king crimson list, the digital guitar list, >>rec.music.*, alt.guitar, and boogie-talk. What others? > >Maybe the DAW people are interested: >soundhack@shoko.calarts.edu >ddesign@lists.uoregon.edu >deckusers-l@teleport.com > >and the (analog) synth amateurs: >synth-diy@horus.sara.nl > >There must be lists for electronic music, minimal music, healing music... >Matthias I'll try to write an announcement tonight after work. Then you can post it anywhere you like. The more loopers we find, the better! Or, if you just can't wait, go ahead and post now! kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | (currently content free!) http://www.annihilist.com/ | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html From ???@??? Fri Sep 06 00:01:02 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 5 17:53:37 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0uypAu-0003Nw-00; Thu, 5 Sep 1996 17:53:36 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0uypEW-0002Sx-00; Thu, 5 Sep 1996 17:57:20 -0700 Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 17:56:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: finley@ecst.csuchico.edu (Matthew F. McCabe) Subject: Boomerang info Resent-Message-ID: <"pRmstC.A.IUC.wb3Ly"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@slip.net X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/25 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@slip.net Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@chromatic.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 17:57:20 -0700 X-UIDL: d1fabcff2173e684428dd6ad25a41253 Hey, just wondering if there is a Boomerang home page. I had no luck searching yahoo. Matt ------------------------------------------------------------ King Never http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~finley/kingnever.html ------------------------------------------------------------ Matthew F. McCabe Able Cain King Never Marathon Records From ???@??? Fri Sep 06 03:15:18 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 6 02:10:03 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0uywvJ-0004Rh-00; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 02:10:01 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0uywyw-0004ii-00; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 02:13:46 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 02:12:02 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Boomerang info Resent-Message-ID: <"KmLJG.A.hbE.Jt-Ly"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@slip.net X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/26 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@slip.net Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@chromatic.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 02:13:46 -0700 X-UIDL: fd4c42b175e4f5b6207aae5a1996c348 >Hey, just wondering if there is a Boomerang home page. I had no luck >searching yahoo. > >Matt > I haven't seen a page, but I've seen the Boomerang at a couple of tradeshows. What do you want to know? It has fairly limited functionality, and the sound quality is not so great, since it samples at only 16khz. So you probably only get maybe 6khz bandwidth out of it. It has a half speed mode, which is sort of interesting, except then you wind up with an 8khz sample rate and probably only 3khz bandwidth. If all you want is a cheap footpedal to do simple guitar loops, its probably ok. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | (currently content free!) http://www.annihilist.com/ | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html From ???@??? Sat Sep 07 00:30:07 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 6 22:55:19 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0uzGMQ-0000jv-00; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 22:55:18 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0uzGQ1-0000HL-00; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 22:59:01 -0700 Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 22:58:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: finley@ecst.csuchico.edu (Matthew F. McCabe) Subject: Re: Boomerang info Resent-Message-ID: <"FH_xb.A.uQ.k8QMy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@slip.net X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@slip.net Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: rpeck@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 22:59:01 -0700 X-UIDL: d54c79a4b0891d1e30a15966a684d7dd >I haven't seen a page, but I've seen the Boomerang at a couple of >tradeshows. What do you want to know? It has fairly limited functionality, >and the sound quality is not so great, since it samples at only 16khz. So >you probably only get maybe 6khz bandwidth out of it. It has a half speed >mode, which is sort of interesting, except then you wind up with an 8khz >sample rate and probably only 3khz bandwidth. If all you want is a cheap >footpedal to do simple guitar loops, its probably ok. Thanks for the info Kim. You basically answered my main questions. I was hoping the Boomerang would fill my "need" for a looping device with a multiple/divide function. Sounds like I should save my pennies.... Matt ------------------------------------------------------------ King Never http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~finley/kingnever.html ------------------------------------------------------------ Matthew F. McCabe Able Cain King Never Marathon Records From ???@??? Tue Sep 10 03:32:14 1996 >From kflint Tue Sep 10 03:31:17 1996 Received: from slip-3.slip.net [204.160.88.17] by mouse.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v0Q67-0003V2-00; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 03:31:15 -0700 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v0Q2I-0004Ez-00; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 03:27:18 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v0Q4Y-0003Mb-00; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 03:29:38 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 03:27:48 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: welcome! Resent-Message-ID: <"5pWu0D.A.5JD.RMUNy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@slip.net X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@slip.net Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 03:29:38 -0700 X-UIDL: fbf4bc769dd0a9c33d6b6f1a387176d9 Welcome! You're all in the first wave of subscribers to the Looper's Delight list, so welcome and thanks for the interest! As some of you probably noticed, the bugs aren't quite all worked out here at Loop Central and the list seems to misbehave sometimes. My sysadmin has promised to give me full write permissions to the list parameter files, but so far it hasn't quite happened yet. Hopefully I'll actually fix things rather than making them worse ;-). So until I get stuff fixed try to remember these few little workarounds: - Reply-to: is not being set in the header of messages, so make sure your replies are going to the list and not just to the person who wrote the post. - Resent-to: is showing up in the header and spewing out a list of everyone's address that vaguely resembles yours. This is really lame, and I'll get rid of it as soon as I figure it out. Pretend you don't see it for now. - If you send any requests to the Loopers-Delight-request address, or if you tell a friend to subscribe or whatever, don't use .sig files. The request processor gets easily confused and just sends the useless help file that I don't have permission to write yet. It took a cruel sense of humor to name this software "Smartlist"... - In the unlikely event that you ever need to unsubscribe, sent a message to Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com with "unsubscribe" in both the subject and body. No signatures! But anyway, it works well enough for us to get on with it and start talkin' loops! So I guess my first questions for you all are, what do you think? Do you have ideas for how the list should work or what could be on the web page? Let's talk about it! The web page, and if you've been there you know, doesn't have a whole lot on it yet. I see that as sort of a community effort. If you get motivated and want to contribute something to it, please do! The more we all put something into it, the better it gets, I think. Welcome, and enjoy..... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Sep 10 23:10:52 1996 >From kflint Tue Sep 10 16:59:27 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v0ci8-0000Xi-00; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 16:59:20 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v0c1u-00001b-00; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 16:15:42 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: "ToddM" Organization: LaserMaster Corporation Date: 10 Sep 1996 17:52:07CST6CDT Subject: Greetings... Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail/Mac v2.0 Message-ID: Resent-Message-ID: <"9KEJQD.A.eB.dafNy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@slip.net X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/33 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@slip.net Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 16:15:42 -0700 X-UIDL: af2b756d4146eea78ea9e98ba08ff44d Hi folks: Just wanted to announce my presence....I'm a guitarist/composer/multi-instrumentalist residing in the Minneapolis area and into this kind of thing. I've been into loops and delays for quite a while now, used to credit myself as "DRONE guitars" on my self-released tapes for some things I must say...and why not? I thought I was just weird, taking Allan Holdsworth's "volume pedal with delayed guitar through multi-voice chorus" to its next logical conclusion. Then I discovered Dave Torn's stuff and thought: "god, are other people doing this sort of thing too?" And then I found out that lots of others were doing it too. Musically I was treated as the crazy aunt under the cellar since I would often do some godawful screaming legato solo and then sit and drone for minutes driving drummers to distraction. EOS, by Terje Rypdal and David Darling sort of became a major obsession for a while. I'm now using three bits to do looping, none of them are really designed as "long delay loopers" like the Oberheim or JamMan, but they do the job: o Lexicon Vortex (Yes, I know, only about two seconds of delay but added to the below.....) o ART SGE (yes, I know, only 1.5 ms of delay, but added to the above....) o Boss DD-3 (yes, I know, only 800ms of delay, but added to the above...) I find that I can create a SWIRLING WHIRLIGIG FRENZY OF SOUND this way. Anyway, the Vortex I bought recently for about $150 new and I found a neat addendum to the owners manual that was sitting elsewhere in the music store I bought it, so I grabbed it and it has all sorts of hints on using it as a looping sampler among other things, it has several cascade loop effects which is quite nice and in combination with tap tempo delays I like it quite a lot. I intend on publishing that little manual addendum for loop-addicts soonly, Lexicon willing (like they'd care, right? Maybe so...I like their stuff...) I'd like to get a JamMan (8 seconds of high-quality audio delay out of the box...nice) or Oberheim (the first is in theoretical reach, the second a bit more expensive than I can justify at present, though I'd love it....) Anyway....I'll sign off now. Have fun and continue looping. By the way, did I tell you that I store loops on VHS Hi-Fi videocassettes because DATs are a bit steep for me? It works, too. You just need a decent VCR without the typical compression most of them have (i.e. you get what you pay for, the better ones are pretty crystalline sounding...) -- Todd Madson Associate Technical Specialist (ATS) LaserMaster Big Color Technical Support LaserMaster W3 Site: http://www.lasermaster.com/ Personal W3 Site: http://www.waste.org/~crash/ Personal mail address: crash@waste.org From ???@??? Tue Sep 10 23:10:48 1996 >From kflint Tue Sep 10 11:56:26 1996 Received: from slip-3.slip.net [204.160.88.17] by mouse.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v0Xyz-00017K-00; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 11:56:25 -0700 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v0XvB-0001ph-00; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 11:52:29 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v0Xwg-00011d-00; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 11:54:02 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960910185417.006c9978@xenon.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@xenon.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 11:54:17 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Software update for Echoplex? Resent-Message-ID: <"YVH_UD.A.a9.HlbNy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@slip.net X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/32 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@slip.net Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 11:54:02 -0700 X-UIDL: de1c920e2a86fce2a40c3b5af8564f0c At 12:01 PM 9/11/96 -0500, you wrote: >I'm short on time, so I can't give a real intro yet, but I >do have a quick post that should stir up something. I only have time for a short answer, so here you go.... >I got an echoplex a few months ago, and I understand there >have been some software updates to the box, but I can't find >out hot to get them. Any suggestions? > >Jim The software that came with your echoplex is the most current *shipping* software. A lot of work has been done on an upgrade that is actually really, really good. It's currently being held up by a contract problem at Oberheim. I'm trying to help the various parties work it out, hopefully soon. One way or another I'm sure it will get out there. kim ___________________________________ Kim Flint OEM Engineering Chromatic Research 408-752-9284 From ???@??? Tue Sep 10 23:10:58 1996 >From kflint Tue Sep 10 19:20:08 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v0euC-0006Y8-00; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 19:19:56 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v0evg-0003sL-00; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 19:21:28 -0700 Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 19:18:40 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Here we are Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Fuq1H.A.uoD.nIiNy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@slip.net X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/34 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@slip.net Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 19:21:28 -0700 X-UIDL: 524b3c3e63aef7a486337f0cb2bdc3c4 Good to see the list up and running. Here are some things I'd like to see on the Web site: -- A list of essential loop-based recordings, with at least minimal review material added. This would be an ideal way to try and compile the most definitive works by the most prominent loopists (is that what we're supposed to call outselves?) Obvious candidates for such a list (IMHO): Fripp and Eno's _No Pussyfooting_, any of Fripp's solo records from the last two years, both of the last two Torn solo albums (and probably several others of his as well), and no doubt a slew of others of which I'm presently unaware. -- A companion list of prominent loop-based artists. Similar to above, but with more emphasis on the individual's career and approach rather than a definitive works-type of analysis. -- A FAQ for the Echoplex. Until such time as the upgrade becomes available (and even afterwards, probably), there are a lot of people who probably have some of the same questions/problems with the unit. (Not to try and knock what is undoubtedly the deepest instrument in its highly limited realm, of course, but there are at least a few unfortunate gremlins floating about in the initial version that have caused me a few headaches). -- An archive page on the Web site, containing sound samples (or links to samples) by loopists, including the members of this list. (Check out the list-member's page at Paolo Valladolid's Digital Guitar Page for an example). This should be fun -- I look forward to seeing what we can come up with. Thanks again to Kim for getting the ball rolling! --Andre LaFosse From ???@??? Tue Sep 10 23:11:05 1996 >From kflint Tue Sep 10 20:58:03 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v0gR7-0002iN-00; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 20:58:01 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v0gSp-0005XC-00; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 20:59:47 -0700 Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 20:54:27 -0700 Message-Id: <199609110354.UAA28109@barley.adnc.com> X-Sender: ambient@mail.adnc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: studio seventeen productions Resent-Message-ID: <"fGzQkB.A.ZMF.ykjNy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@slip.net Subject: Unidentified subject! X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/35 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@slip.net Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 20:59:47 -0700 X-UIDL: 436ac925fd648a70afa0fb986d9faa2b Nice to be part of the start of a list instead of joing three years into it! Great suggestion about compiling lists of important loop recordings......indeed No Pussyfooting, Evening Star.....eno's Discreet Music... I'll do up a proper list and send it in a couple days. I am currently using the Oberheim (108 second config), a Digitech RDS-8000 (8 second delay), and a Digitech TSR-24S (5 seconds + a million other sounds) as the basis for my set-up. However, my primary INPUT device is energy bow guitar, which I've specialized in for about fifteen years: as well as standard guitar, a discman to capture bits of anonymous CD sounds; and a Yamaha DX11. I wrote up a complete and detailed description of my set-up for some one that questioned me via our web site, so as I told Kim I'll also get that out, review it and submit it for possible inclusion on the web page. Perhaps Kim can create a SETUPS page and we can all send in our routing, device intenconnections, etc. and what we're able to accomplish musically with the setup. I know it would be helpful for me to look at alternative setups, in fact I made some major major changes to how I do things after I was fortunate enough to speak with John Sinks (RF's guitar tech). I'm sure we'll all get more in depth about set-ups and hope we can share some good ideas and system improvements... Can't wait for the Oberheim upgrade, but the box is pretty amazing even as is. That's about it for now...let's get some contributions made to the page... and get this thing going! There are a lot more loopers out there than you think, and in fact my partner Bryan Helm and I recorded and performed for five years creating live in-the-moment loops, Bryan looping drum machine and synth with a JamMan and a 16-second delay and myself on energy bow and guitar & synth with the setup noted above. A BAND of loopers as it were! also if you get a chance visit our page (address below) there are some decent downloadable samples too. thanks for listening!!! dave at studio seventeen lead me in with a count of seventeen... Mr. Blint Consequences/Godley & Creme visit: http:www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html seventeen: the ambient music page From ???@??? Wed Sep 11 01:29:24 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 11 01:24:03 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v0kaT-0004cv-00; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 01:23:58 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v0kZd-0001Mr-00; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 01:23:05 -0700 Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 10:22:36 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Consider me in Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"WZGBGD.A.ISB.obnNy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@slip.net X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/36 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@slip.net Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 01:23:05 -0700 X-UIDL: afb7cdd195c1fb14181c05de76ed2980 And just loop the loop! From ???@??? Wed Sep 11 10:13:18 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 11 02:17:48 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v0lQW-0004Ln-00; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 02:17:44 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v0lNt-0001wF-00; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 02:15:01 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 02:13:10 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Here we are Resent-Message-ID: <"iqKVeB.A.Z0B.SMoNy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@slip.net X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/37 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@slip.net Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 02:15:02 -0700 X-UIDL: bf9013e6d1264b5cc02f869ea746b3d2 >Good to see the list up and running. > >Here are some things I'd like to see on the Web site: > >-- A list of essential loop-based recordings, with at least minimal review >material added. This would be an ideal way to try and compile the most >definitive works by the most prominent loopists (is that what we're >supposed to call outselves?) Obvious candidates for such a list (IMHO): >Fripp and Eno's _No Pussyfooting_, any of Fripp's solo records from the >last two years, both of the last two Torn solo albums (and probably >several others of his as well), and no doubt a slew of others of which I'm >presently unaware. This is a great idea. If any of you want do little mini-reviews of your favorite loop-based recordings, or even just a list, go for it! Send them to me or post them and we'll put a section up on the web page for it. > >-- A companion list of prominent loop-based artists. Similar to above, >but with more emphasis on the individual's career and approach rather >than a definitive works-type of analysis. This is already a plan for the page. Unfortunately, I probably don't know enough about any one artist to do anything real interesting. Any takers? Even little bits and pieces on different loop artists would be cool. We can glue 'em all together. Another idea that's been proposed along these lines is a page about some of us ordinary folks, who do our thing in the garage most of the time. I like that grassroots approach. We can put up url's to home pages, audio clips, gear descriptions, contact info, etc. So if you want to be self-promotional and make a page for yourself, that would be great. We can get to know each other a little better that way. > >-- A FAQ for the Echoplex. Until such time as the upgrade becomes >available (and even afterwards, probably), there are a lot of people who >probably have some of the same questions/problems with the unit. (Not to >try and knock what is undoubtedly the deepest instrument in its highly >limited realm, of course, but there are at least a few unfortunate >gremlins floating about in the initial version that have caused me a few >headaches). I'll do this. Its one of the main reasons I started this whole thing. I've answered just about every damn question there could be about the echoplex at least twice! :-) I know I talked to some of you out there back in my g-wiz days. I also want to do a section of my favorite echoplex techniques and tricks. Most people who own them have only touched the surface of what they are capable of. Usually a few examples of the interesting techniques possible with the deeper functions really opens the creative floodgates. > >-- An archive page on the Web site, containing sound samples (or links to >samples) by loopists, including the members of this list. (Check out the >list-member's page at Paolo Valladolid's Digital Guitar Page for an example). I'm going to look into archiving list posts. I think the software might be able to do it automatically. The sysadmin gave me maximum permission to edit the list parameters today, so I'll be causing serious damage and hopefully fixing a few bugs in the list over the next week or so. >This should be fun -- I look forward to seeing what we can come up with. >Thanks again to Kim for getting the ball rolling! > >--Andre LaFosse Thanks for joining and making it worth the effort! kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Wed Sep 11 10:13:34 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 11 07:45:31 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v0qXi-0000C5-00; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 07:45:30 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v0qXv-0004Bj-00; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 07:45:43 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 07:45:39 -0400 To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Resent-Message-ID: <"3uYrLC.A.i7D.WCtNy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@slip.net Subject: Unidentified subject! X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/40 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@slip.net Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 07:45:43 -0700 X-UIDL: 3dc094ce4116d43a2817f11ab8d74f27 Hello all! Looks like we, loopers, are finally coming out of the closet! The Jam Man has changed the way I play -- I've never been able to write "verse/chorus" type songs, but I've always enjoyed jamming. The Jam Man has allowed me to start with a groove, then layer sounds, until I end up with a full-blown groove and/or texture -- and all without having to mess with tape decks, levels, etc. I have found that: simple is better! Although I consider myself technically proficient, I have found that the less I have to mess with the technical side, while performing, the more musically inspired I become. I imagine I am not alone in thinking this way. Anyways, I have been running the Jam Man on the effects loop of a small mixer, with my bass and guitar and a microphone plugged into the inputs of the mixer. I usually start the loops with an acoustic drum, to create a groove, throw in a bass line, add some textures with an accordian, then jam guitar to my heart's content! At first, I was upset that I couldn't "edit" or "save" my loop with the jam man -- but I have found that this has freed me up: I'm not concerned about getting it "just right." I just play! I have had a lot of fun with this approach, especially when there is no-one around to jam with. However, I've also created some loops, that I enjoyed so much, it was rather painful to erase. I am interested in learning some of the techniques people are using to save, and possibly edit loops, after the fact. I have a Macintosh -- are there some good (and inexpensive) digital editors out there for the Mac? Anyways, I'm happy to be a part of this listing, and I hope I can contribute. Cheers! - Chris --------------------------------------- Chris Chovit cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov --------------------------------------- From ???@??? Wed Sep 11 10:13:29 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 11 06:25:46 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v0pIX-0005qO-00; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 06:25:45 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v0pJD-0002wu-00; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 06:26:27 -0700 Date: 11 Sep 96 09:23:38 EDT From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: Here we are Message-ID: <960911132338_100041.247_JHB113-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"T_ugM.A.ExC.D4rNy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@slip.net X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/38 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@slip.net Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 06:26:27 -0700 X-UIDL: de4f1504c98420db1126f43065bffe58 I think the Loopers web site should carry a page about the history of looping. Matthias' musings article is good for a start, but there should be more details on who did what when how. I'd like to volunteer to collect material and write such a history page (if this is ok with Kim), but looking at the sparse data I have on this subject, I need everybody's support - if you know something about the topic, write me (send private email). Eno's and Fripp's achievements are obvious, but I doubt that the classic tape loop system was actually invented by Eno - I guess someone in the electronic/avantgarde music scene did it, but I'm not sure who. I'd also like to at least point to the minimalists' use of long echo lines (Terry Riley's 'Rainbow in Curved Air' was 1971, 4 years before Discreet Music). -Michael Peters (looping with the Paradis Loop Delay) http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters/music.htm From ???@??? Wed Sep 11 10:13:32 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 11 07:11:50 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v0q17-00076g-00; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 07:11:49 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v0pzS-0003eg-00; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 07:10:06 -0700 Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 10:13:55 -0400 From: cwb@platinum.com (Clark Battle) Message-Id: <199609111413.KAA10749@octopus.ab.platinum.com> To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: how much is an echoplex? X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"UkNEQC.A.hbD.9gsNy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@slip.net X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/39 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@slip.net Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 07:10:06 -0700 X-UIDL: 7c3603610470b2339128e8566335672a How much does an echoplex cost (US) anyway? Is there anywhere i can try one out within a reasonoble driving distance from Philly? Clark From ???@??? Wed Sep 11 10:13:39 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 11 08:25:36 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v0rAR-0001kH-00; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 08:25:31 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v0rA9-0004vU-00; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 08:25:13 -0700 Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 10:26:10 -0400 From: "Jason N. Joseph" <73311.213@compuserve.com> Subject: welcome! To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@slip.net" Message-ID: <199609111123_MC1-963-E837@compuserve.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"t9nRMC.A.3nE.WntNy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@slip.net X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/43 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@slip.net Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 08:25:13 -0700 X-UIDL: eba58fcdc6e43739e0eaf9197d401655 Er, how do I set this thing in digest form? My office e-mailbox doesn't like to receive a huge number of messages... jj 73311.213@compuserve.com From ???@??? Thu Sep 12 00:41:55 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 11 12:46:54 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v0vFL-0003Uc-00; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 12:46:51 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v0vGI-0002jc-00; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 12:47:50 -0700 To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com From: ToddM@LaserMaster.Com Organization: LaserMaster Corporation Date: 11 Sep 1996 14:46:18CST6CDT Subject: Vortex of Fun.. Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail/Mac v2.0 Message-ID: Resent-Message-ID: <"mgASMD.A.PkC.ldxNy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@slip.net Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@slip.net X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/49 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@slip.net Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, "74074,1316"@compuserve.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 12:47:50 -0700 X-UIDL: 7bb1e7a0df12167976cbe40c6e5fb050 DStagner said: > The Vortex is a really neat little box. Yep. > Basically, it's just two delays, two modulators, and an envelope > follower. It sounds so simple, but there's really a lot to it. I also like that ultimately, though it effects your signal, it doesn't ruin your tone or change it significantly, it just effects what is already there. And the effects are warm and organic sounding. > Lexicon gives a number of programs putting these effects in > various orders, in heavily interactive ways. I especially like the dynamic changes just the slightest touch (in terms of guitar) can effect. > Many programs feature cross-feedback for the delays, > or series delays with feedback loops going from one delay > to the other. This is one of the more powerful features - it's especially good for drum machines since you can create powerful polyrhythms with it. > Tempo is tapped in, like the JamMan, and the delay "time" is > actually set as a fraction of the tap. So it's easy to set up > consistent polyrhythmic echoes with this thing. Yep. You can create pseudo "Discipline"-era King Crimson interlocking guitar parts with just one guitar this way, too. > Some of the programs also use the envelope follower to modulate > delay feedback, either fading out old sounds as new ones come in, Especially good if you start finding that the building of your loop is starting to generate tons of noise from the older signal and you want it to evolve a bit. It's also great for drums since it takes older signals out as new one comes in and makes it sound much more natural than drums going through a delay unit. > or modulating the volume of the echoes relative to the > input signal. It won't get in your way, although you can shut the dynamic response off and make it spew all over your signals too if you want. > In other words, it's the most dynamically responsive low-cost > rackmount effect I've ever used. I can't believe that Guitar Center was all but giving them away for $150 a pop. They were selling about ten a day towards the end. > Unfortunately, total delay time is limited to around a second. Actually, 1946 milliseconds to be exact. Anyone who can modify this thing to have longer delays will be practically deified. Any takers? What does Lexicon say about that? > But there are LOTS of cool things you can do with that! Indeed. > I really like using the Vortex to build a short, complex > atmospheric sound, and then feeding that into the JamMan and > letting it loop and modulate. Or, you could work it the other way around - take a long loop from the JamMan and process it to death in the Vortex... Andre said: ----------------------------- > How much does an echoplex cost (US) anyway? Is > there anywhere i can try one out within a reasonoble > driving distance from Philly? > Echoplexes often aren't as expensive as you'd think. The retail is about > $879 for a new unit, but for just over $500 I picked up a brand new unit > *plus* the foot controller. A really good deal, I might add. Anyone have a clue as to a dealer in the upper midwest who has these where I could try one out? > Why? The store I got it at (Nadine's here in L.A., incidentally one of > the few places I've found that even stocks the thing) wanted to move the > units. Wish someone in the upper midwest would do that. > Loopers are pretty esoteric; very few people know what they are, and > most of the few that do don't have the right combination of interest and > finance. Probably why Guitar Center was selling Vortex for $150 and JamMan for somewhere in the $300 range....most musicians, despite their reputation are a conservative lot and the marketing campaign for Vortex kind of made it sound like a WACKY effect (BLEEN and AEROSOL and FRACTAL effects notwithstanding). My theory is I'd bet most people didn't try it because of that. Most people are reluctant to buy $478 (list) rack effects that don't do anything useful for them..or are gimmicky. It's far from being gimmicky, but the marketing was weird for that product. I'd bet a lot of musicians thought it was a strange effect just in the descriptions. I watch people test the VG-8 by Roland in Guitar Center and there are few that seem to "get it". I see a lot of people using it to make goofy guitar sounds, but few "get" the possibilities therein. > So you should be able to track down one of the three "Big Ones" (JamMan, > Echoplex, or Boomerang) at a pretty decent cost. Way cool. That's what I want to grab next. > Imagining the day Boss comes out with the $250 LP-1 looping stompbox, Don't make me drool. From ???@??? Wed Sep 11 10:13:36 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 11 08:03:40 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v0qpG-0000pw-00; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 08:03:38 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v0qoQ-0004Wp-00; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 08:02:46 -0700 Message-Id: <199609111501.AA218344096@hecky.acns.nwu.edu> X-Sender: kjh857@hecky.acns.nwu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 10:05:40 -0600 To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com From: kholmhud@nwu.edu (Kevin Holm-Hudson) Subject: Essential loop recordings Resent-Message-ID: <"w9QU9C.A.7PE.VStNy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@slip.net X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/41 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@slip.net Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 08:02:46 -0700 X-UIDL: 1dc06c802c20d8ab0222a89ac60fded8 Responding to The Man Himself's post, I agree that _No Pussyfooting_ and Fripp's recent soundscapes work are essential for any looper's library--Torn is another obvious choice. I'd like to share perhaps some _non_-obvious choices from the "art-music" (whatever that is) realm: Daniel Lentz--a great and sadly neglected West Coast composer, does some very intricate stuff with cascading echo systems. IMO his finest is _Missa Umbrarum_, which is on CD on the New Albion label. Lentz's singers sing the text of the Roman Catholic mass a syllable at a time into looping systems of various durations, and each movement of the mass is also in a different style--eventually they all combine seamlessly. Accompanying the voices, by the way, are tuned wine glasses (filled with wine, natch), which are struck, rubbed, bowed, etc. like one big glass pipe organ. (The singers also drink specified amounts of the wine during performance, to change the pitch--naturally adding a fun element of inebriation to the performance praxis.) Other Lentz albums that explore interlocking synth loops in a quasi-Reich way are _On the Leopard Altar_ (probably out of print) and _The Crack in the Bell_ (definitely out of print--it was on Angel records, and you can still find cut-outs from time to time.) He's also recorded several piano pieces that use massed pianos and loops. Is there room on this list for looping not supported by technology? I'm thinking for example of Erik Satie's _Vexations_ (a slow piano phrase repeated 840 times--taking some 17 hours; I participated in a group performance of this in the early 80s) and Terry Riley's seminal _In C_, which certainly involves looping although manually played. Glad to see this list is up and running so quickly! Kevin Holm-Hudson Department of Academic Studies and Composition Northwestern University School of Music 711 Elgin Rd. Evanston, IL 60208 "The mind should wander long before the pitch begins to." -Khh ******************************************************************************* From ???@??? Wed Sep 11 10:13:38 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 11 08:19:43 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v0r4i-0001Ut-00; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 08:19:36 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v0r61-0004po-00; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 08:20:57 -0700 Message-Id: <199609111519.AA225625151@hecky.acns.nwu.edu> X-Sender: kjh857@hecky.acns.nwu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 10:23:14 -0600 To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com From: kholmhud@nwu.edu (Kevin Holm-Hudson) Subject: Essential loop recordings Resent-Message-ID: <"Z6jehD.A.RiE.XjtNy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@slip.net X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/42 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@slip.net Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 08:20:57 -0700 X-UIDL: fb7cc3c022750b34cd4807f4200afcbb >Responding to The Man Himself's post, I agree that _No Pussyfooting_ and >Fripp's recent soundscapes work are essential for any looper's >library--Torn is another obvious choice. I'd like to share perhaps some >_non_-obvious choices from the "art-music" (whatever that is) realm: > >Daniel Lentz--a great and sadly neglected West Coast composer, does some >very intricate stuff with cascading echo systems. IMO his finest is _Missa >Umbrarum_, which is on CD on the New Albion label. Lentz's singers sing the >text of the Roman Catholic mass a syllable at a time into looping systems >of various durations, and each movement of the mass is also in a different >style--eventually they all combine seamlessly. Accompanying the voices, by >the way, are tuned wine glasses (filled with wine, natch), which are >struck, rubbed, bowed, etc. like one big glass pipe organ. (The singers >also drink specified amounts of the wine during performance, to change the >pitch--naturally adding a fun element of inebriation to the performance >praxis.) Other Lentz albums that explore interlocking synth loops in a >quasi-Reich way are _On the Leopard Altar_ (probably out of print) and _The >Crack in the Bell_ (definitely out of print--it was on Angel records, and >you can still find cut-outs from time to time.) He's also recorded several >piano pieces that use massed pianos and loops. > >Is there room on this list for looping not supported by technology? I'm >thinking for example of Erik Satie's _Vexations_ (a slow piano phrase >repeated 840 times--taking some 17 hours; I participated in a group >performance of this in the early 80s) and Terry Riley's seminal _In C_, >which certainly involves looping although manually played. > >Glad to see this list is up and running so quickly! > >Kevin Holm-Hudson >Department of Academic Studies and Composition >Northwestern University School of Music >711 Elgin Rd. >Evanston, IL 60208 > >"The mind should wander long before the pitch begins to." -Khh > >******************************************************************************* From ???@??? Wed Sep 11 10:13:40 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 11 09:31:53 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v0sCa-0004YU-00; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 09:31:48 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v0s9X-0006BZ-00; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 09:28:39 -0700 Message-Id: <199609111628.AA00498@internet-mail2.ford.com> From: "Steven R. Murrell" To: "'Loop'" Subject: Introduction Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 12:25:49 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"elqFtD.A.czF.1iuNy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@slip.net X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/44 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@slip.net Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 09:28:39 -0700 X-UIDL: f1aa36d45c52c0e8153faaa4f6d56c2f Hello, I just wanted to introduce myself. My name is Steve Murrell and I play the Chapman Grand Stick(TM). Among other things, my set-up includes a Lexicon JamMan with 32 Second capability. I have thouroughly enjoyed the JamMan so far and consider it a good value for the money (about $500.00 with the expanded memory chips). I have found that this unit in combination with my multi-effects unit (Digitech Valve F/X) can do some very powerfull things. I am interested in hearing from the rest of you regarding what units are out there, including approximate prices and functions. I will ba adding a second looping unit soon and would like to hear recommendations and discussions. Also, my musical influences include Steve Reich, Philip Glass, Robert Fripp, Mick Karn, David Torn, and many others. Discussions concerning these artists and others would interest me as well. Bye for now, Steve Murrell smurrell@ford.com From ???@??? Tue Sep 10 23:10:45 1996 >From kflint Tue Sep 10 11:04:47 1996 Received: from slip-3.slip.net [204.160.88.17] by mouse.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v0XAf-0006D8-00; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 11:04:25 -0700 Received: from root by slip-3.slip.net with bsmtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v0X6g-0007E1-00; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 11:00:18 -0700 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v0X1w-00077p-00; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 10:55:24 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v0W3B-0002mr-00; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 09:52:37 -0700 Message-ID: <3236F074.1108@interaccess.com> Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 12:01:46 -0500 From: Jim Coker X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Software update for Echoplex? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"TI7aKB.A.JnC.PzZNy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@slip.net X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/31 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@slip.net Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 09:52:37 -0700 X-UIDL: f74b35cf79e22d2b0b4ca5a19d628100 I'm short on time, so I can't give a real intro yet, but I do have a quick post that should stir up something. I got an echoplex a few months ago, and I understand there have been some software updates to the box, but I can't find out hot to get them. Any suggestions? Jim From ???@??? Wed Sep 11 10:13:43 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 11 10:09:57 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v0snU-0006A0-00; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 10:09:56 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v0spp-00074O-00; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 10:12:21 -0700 Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 13:09:42 -0400 From: "S. Patrick Hickey" Message-Id: <199609111709.NAA06838@nielsenmedia.com> To: Loopers-Delight@slip.net Subject: Please do the digest thing. Resent-Message-ID: <"RwY8IB.A.noG.zLvNy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@slip.net X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/45 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@slip.net Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 10:12:21 -0700 X-UIDL: 21f82594d8ad7cfa890371d2c7cf7746 See subject. aTdHvAaNnKcSe Pat Hickey (I'll tell you about my looping soon, I promise) ***SPH brzrkr@nielsenmedia.com From ???@??? Wed Sep 11 10:53:47 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 11 10:50:48 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v0tQw-0000Eg-00; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 10:50:42 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v0tQQ-0007nF-00; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 10:50:10 -0700 Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 12:49:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Hello and such Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"JgzIW.A.EUH.RvvNy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@slip.net X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47 Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@slip.net X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@slip.net Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, "74074,1316"@compuserve.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 10:50:10 -0700 X-UIDL: dd9eeb8527a13c01f662324109036034 Just thought I'd say hi to everyone, and make a little comment about looping technique. I'm a guitarist, and I use a Lexicon JamMan for looping, as well as a Lexicon Vortex for lots of interesting loop-like work. The Vortex is a really neat little box. Basically, it's just two delays, two modulators, and an envelope follower. Lexicon gives a number of programs putting these effects in various orders, in heavily interactive ways. Many programs feature cross-feedback for the delays, or series delays with feedback loops going from one delay to the other. Tempo is tapped in, like the JamMan, and the delay "time" is actually set as a fraction of the tap. So it's easy to set up consistent polyrhythmic echoes with this thing. Some of the programs also use the envelope follower to modulate delay feedback, either fading out old sounds as new ones come in, or modulating the volume of the echoes relative to the input signal. In other words, it's the most dynamically responsive low-cost rackmount effect I've ever used. Unfortunately, total delay time is limited to around a second. But there are LOTS of cool things you can do with that! I really like using the Vortex to build a short, complex atmospheric sound, and then feeding that into the JamMan and letting it loop and modulate. Here's a technique I use with the JamMan to get a more flexible, improvisational feel from it. When I first got it, I tended to use it to start a loop, then punch in more layers. But what I found was that things just got bigger and louder and bigger and louder. It had a very one-way dynamic. Now, rather than using the looping functions, I usually prefer to just use its delay function. There are 16 delay feedback levels, controlled by the knob on the front. Turn the feedback up high and start looping. At 16, you effectively have infinite repeat. As things build, you can turn the feedback down and let a loop fade, then turn it back up and add more to the loop while the older material floats in the background. This makes for a much more dynamic and rewarding looping improv, I think. I just have two problems now... first, I don't get to do nearly enough looping. I don't have a studio space safe from my two toddler children, and they like to play with knobs altogether too much. The only way I can play is to go through my long setup process after the kids go to bed, and tear it apart before they get up in the morning. Second, I'm primarily an acoustic guitarist, not electric. I don't play electric much and I'm not really comfortable on it. Hopefully, I'll be getting a new acoustic with a pickup soon, and I'll see how that works as a tone source. I rather like the idea of sending the warm, woody sound of an acoustic guitar through my effects and seeing what comes out! Maybe, if I can get my new guitar and build a safe studio space, I'll get better at this. :} By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com */ -Charles Fort /* http://www.leepfrog.com/~dstagner */ From ???@??? Wed Sep 11 10:53:50 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 11 10:50:51 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v0tQy-0000Eg-00; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 10:50:44 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v0tGA-0007ae-00; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 10:39:34 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 10:37:36 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Please do the digest thing. Resent-Message-ID: <"HUyLLD.A.3HH.UlvNy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@slip.net X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/46 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@slip.net Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, "74074,1316"@compuserve.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 10:39:34 -0700 X-UIDL: 574c142963af433552ebcd329d0a0f6e >See subject. > >aTdHvAaNnKcSe >Pat Hickey (I'll tell you about my looping soon, I promise) ***SPH >brzrkr@nielsenmedia.com I'll try to figure out how to do this. The list software claims to have the capability, I just have to decipher the cryptic manual and even more cryptic preference files. I'll let you know as I get it working. Since the list is new there are a few quirks in the software I'd like to get rid of. Bear with me there. It works well enough, just pretend not to notice the occasional hiccups! I work about a billion hours a week, so it may take a few days before I find enough free seconds to fix the various "features" that this brilliant list soft has to offer.... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Sep 12 00:41:51 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 11 11:41:06 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v0uDh-000146-00; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 11:41:05 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v0uEL-0001A5-00; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 11:41:45 -0700 Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 11:38:52 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Clark Battle cc: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: how much is an echoplex? In-Reply-To: <199609111413.KAA10749@octopus.ab.platinum.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"1WPoi.A.sFB.pfwNy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@slip.net Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@slip.net X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/48 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@slip.net Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, "74074,1316"@compuserve.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 11:41:45 -0700 X-UIDL: 26efb068ff5dbd487f24d716e51746f0 > How much does an echoplex cost (US) anyway? Is > there anywhere i can try one out within a reasonoble > driving distance from Philly? Echoplexes often aren't as expensive as you'd think. The retail is about $879 for a new unit, but for just over $500 I picked up a brand new unit *plus* the foot controller. Why? The store I got it at (Nadine's here in L.A., incidentally one of the few places I've found that even stocks the thing) wanted to move the units. Loopers are pretty esoteric; very few people know what they are, and most of the few that do don't have the right combination of interest and finance. So you should be able to track down one of the three "Big Ones" (JamMan, Echoplex, or Boomerang) at a pretty decent cost. Imagining the day Boss comes out with the $250 LP-1 looping stompbox, --Andre From ???@??? Thu Sep 12 00:41:57 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 11 12:51:05 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v0vJQ-0003cY-00; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 12:51:04 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v0vIM-0002nb-00; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 12:49:58 -0700 Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 12:49:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: finley@ecst.csuchico.edu (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@slip.net From: finley@ecst.csuchico.edu (Matthew F. McCabe) Subject: Re: Hello and such Resent-Message-ID: <"m7urvC.A.9nC.lfxNy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@slip.net Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@slip.net X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/50 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@slip.net Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, "74074,1316"@compuserve.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 12:49:58 -0700 X-UIDL: 6a3a68bdb743b7fbc092a3ef2f13fc52 >Here's a technique I use with the JamMan to get a more flexible, >improvisational feel from it. When I first got it, I tended to use it to >start a loop, then punch in more layers. But what I found was that >things just got bigger and louder and bigger and louder. It had a very >one-way dynamic. Now, rather than using the looping functions, I usually >prefer to just use its delay function. There are 16 delay feedback >levels, controlled by the knob on the front. Turn the feedback up high >and start looping. At 16, you effectively have infinite repeat. As >things build, you can turn the feedback down and let a loop fade, then >turn it back up and add more to the loop while the older material floats >in the background. This makes for a much more dynamic and rewarding >looping improv, I think. Dave, that's a great idea. I just tried it and it works wonderfully....although now I must rush back to work.... Using your idea, loopers will be able to create continuous loops that can change textures and tonal centers over time. Very cool! Matt From ???@??? Thu Sep 12 00:42:04 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 11 15:09:04 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v0xSw-00006j-00; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 15:09:02 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v0xDG-0005V6-00; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 14:52:50 -0700 Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 16:47:15 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner To: Loopers-Delight@slip.net Subject: Re: Hello and such In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"H3OB0B.A.SKF.tSzNy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@slip.net Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@slip.net X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/51 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@slip.net Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, "74074,1316"@compuserve.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 14:52:52 -0700 X-UIDL: ad88f93cdce62371e4453e150cfd9907 On Wed, 11 Sep 1996, Matthew F. McCabe wrote: > Dave, that's a great idea. I just tried it and it works > wonderfully....although now I must rush back to work.... > > Using your idea, loopers will be able to create continuous loops that can > change textures and tonal centers over time. Very cool! > > Matt Actually, credit should go as much to Robert Fripp and Frippertronics as to me. I got the idea from listening to _Let the Power Fall_, Fripp's classic looping album. He would do the same trick, building a little structure with the loop, then fading it into the background and building more on top of it. Sometimes you can hear several old structures still beeping away in the murk while he's adding new notes. And those Revox tape machines sounded SO nice. Someone mentioned how good the Lexicon boxes sounded. I couldn't agree more. Most digital effects (and many analog ones) seem to do horrible things to the dynamic range and liveliness of the original sound. At this point, the only digital effects in my signal chain are the Vortex, the JamMan, and a horrible old Boss Pitch Shifter/Delay stomp box that I (rarely) use specifically for its artificial, robot-voice quality. I think it actually has only a 12 bit digitizer. With this in mind, I think Lexicon COMPLETELY blew it marketing the Vortex. Are they even making them now? I got mine for $220 last year, and word was Lexicon was dropping them due to poor sales. The marketing I did see emphasized the morphing ability (which I hardly ever use) and the weirdo effects like Bleen (which does rather sound like an alien farting). But to me, it's just an exquisitely *guitaristic* effects box. Lack of MIDI isn't a big loss. The envelope follower, expression pedal, tap delay, fascinating programs, relatively simple interface, and rich sound quality are HUGE wins. I just run a rackmount preamp into it, and out comes this wonderful sound. It seems to me much more musician-oriented than the hordes of boxes out there with ten zillion "effects" and no character. And as long as I'm talking... I have to admit, as many of us do, I'm beginning to despair of ever seeing a low-cost, high-function, musician-oriented looping device on the commercial market. They're all either too pricy (TC 2290), too limiting (JamMan), poor sound, or (worst) out of production. But... I think there may be a solution. And that solution is software. Ordinary desktop PCs and Macs these days offer 16 bit full duplex sound recording, huge memories (16 bit stereo sound is about 10mb/minute), and blazingly fast CPUs. And pleasant input devices, in the form of MIDI faders, expression pedals, and footswitches, are also commercially available. So why not just turn a PC into our looping device? It may be a little impractical for the stage, but it'd be GREAT for home recording and playing. Performance interaction could occur via any MIDI device, and new/clever functionality could be added at the software level. A gui with a keyboard and mouse could be used, rather than the tiny knobs, buttons and LCD screens that can fit on a 19" rack. Save your loops? Use the computer's filesystem. Process your loops in real time. Switch instantly between loops. Reverse them. Extend them. I really like this idea. Once you take the hardware issues (digitizing, user interface) out of it, it's just a matter of throwing CPU and RAM at the problem until it goes away. Anyone wanna buy me a new computer so I can write this? -dave From ???@??? Thu Sep 12 00:42:14 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 11 22:54:27 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v14jJ-0000NM-00; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 22:54:25 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v14lM-00013A-00; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 22:56:32 -0700 Date: 12 Sep 96 01:52:33 EDT From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: how much is an echoplex? Message-ID: <960912055233_100041.247_JHB36-2@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"o2BDuB.A.8-.PY6Ny"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@slip.net Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@slip.net X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/52 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@slip.net Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, "74074,1316"@compuserve.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 22:56:33 -0700 X-UIDL: d590343e595ec1656f2ffa5c1de19f02 hi all, I'm planning to visit London soon (I'm from Germany) and need some ideas about where to go to find 1. cool CDs and 2. cool music hardware. Is there anyone from London who can help me? (Please don't respond to the list, but send private email) -M From ???@??? Thu Sep 12 00:42:15 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 12 00:30:15 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v16E1-0002sA-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 00:30:13 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v16Fy-0002rg-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 00:32:15 -0700 Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 09:31:41 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@slip.net Subject: Echoplex/Jamman In-Reply-To: <960912055233_100041.247_JHB36-2@CompuServe.COM> Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"03OMkD.A.CsC.8x7Ny"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@slip.net Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@slip.net X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/53 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@slip.net Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, "74074,1316"@compuserve.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 00:32:15 -0700 X-UIDL: 9c48b4fdc953ee35af0a335e3712fb2f Whaaaat? You happy fellow should know that a jaman is around (converted in US dollars) $1000 here in france, not to mention the price of an echoplex! Darn it! you said you could have a jam man for 150 bucks! It is going to drive me crazy! By the way, perhaps you could tell me, you fortunate guys, before I spend my BIG bucks on it, what differences between the two units, what I can do xith one, not with the others, what kind of memory they do accept to increase their delay time, if I can do it myself, if you can add one memory chip at a time (some electronic units accept only changes by pairs) If you don't want to drive everyone crazy, since this thing is not in digest form for the moment, you can e-mail me privately. Thanxxxx in advance Olivier Malhomme From ???@??? Thu Sep 12 00:53:32 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 12 00:43:39 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v16R0-00037j-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 00:43:38 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v16RV-00032g-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 00:44:09 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 00:42:21 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: just a test..... Resent-Message-ID: <"R6DfqB.A.n2C.H97Ny"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@slip.net Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@slip.net X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/54 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@slip.net Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, "74074,1316"@compuserve.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 00:44:09 -0700 X-UIDL: f2d893724c243b53a79a6ef78753ce81 Status: O X-Status: ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Sep 12 01:44:17 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 12 01:39:55 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v17JR-00002B-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 01:39:53 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v17MG-0003pj-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 01:42:48 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 01:41:02 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: testing again Resent-Message-ID: <"GoAba.A.LmD.H08Ny"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/55 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 01:42:48 -0700 X-UIDL: 5b6cc565e75c9756e02a727503cb6979 ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Sep 12 10:03:12 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 12 08:14:36 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1DTP-0000PQ-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 08:14:35 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1DUa-0007b1-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 08:15:48 -0700 To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com From: ToddM@LaserMaster.Com Organization: LaserMaster Corporation Date: 12 Sep 1996 9:51:18CST6CDT Subject: Someone in Distress in France sans Looper Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail/Mac v2.0 Message-ID: Resent-Message-ID: <"ANVFKD.A.LIH.ikCOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 08:15:48 -0700 X-UIDL: da2157af24cd650fd1475274b3b36c47 The person who wrote from France who was distressed due to the $150 price tag on a particular rack effect (he thought it was the JamMan) was actually distressed about this price on the Vortex. The Guitar Center in Minneapolis was blowing out Vortex processors as fast as can be this past month and I got mine for a ridiculous $149.95, brand new in the box with footpedal and manual. Now it's not the JamMan, but it's still very nice and I'll likely be picking either that or the Echoplex up within the next year, now that I find out the Echoplex was available from Sam Ash for $559... Kim: How much memory does the Echoplex ship with? Thanks. From ???@??? Thu Sep 12 04:01:45 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 12 03:11:47 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v18kM-0006Pb-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 03:11:46 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v18ix-0005Mq-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 03:10:19 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 03:08:15 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Here we are Resent-Message-ID: <"QpgoiB.A.MCF.IG-Ny"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/56 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 03:10:19 -0700 X-UIDL: 548db84ce3db2c258a4270a025e78e37 >I think the Loopers web site should carry a page about the history of >looping. Matthias' musings article is good for a start, but there should be >more details on who did what when how. > >I'd like to volunteer to collect material and write such a history page >(if this is ok with Kim), but looking at the sparse data I have on this >subject, I need everybody's support - if you know something about the topic, >write me (send private email). Please go right ahead! I wrote a text about the development of the Oberheim Echoplex, which I've been planning to expand and put on the web page. Matthias wrote a piece on the Echoplex's precursor, the Paradis LoopDelay, which I will also put up as soon as I figure out where I lost it on my hard disk. I'm sure Jon Durant can help us out with Lexicon info. And then of course there are the many important artists and the contributions they have made. Fripp/Eno/Torn are obvious ones. There are other genres where looping is real prominent as well. Hip-hop, techno, house, trip-hop, ambient-techno, dub, etc have all developed looping in interesting ways, and now those influences are pretty much common place in pop music. In fact, one thing I'm really interested in discussing on this list is the different approaches and techniques to looping found in different styles of music. I think we can learn a lot from each other by sharing these different approaches and reapplying them in our own music. >Eno's and Fripp's achievements are obvious, but I doubt that the >classic tape loop system was actually invented by Eno - I guess someone in >the electronic/avantgarde music scene did it, but I'm not sure who. If I remember right, it was people in radio stations who first came up with the idea of tape delays. I'm sure someone knows who they were. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Sep 12 04:01:47 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 12 03:15:30 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v18nv-00075F-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 03:15:27 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v18pu-0005yE-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 03:17:30 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 03:15:31 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@slip.net From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: how much is an echoplex? Resent-Message-ID: <"M3P0v.A.bmF.1M-Ny"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/57 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 03:17:30 -0700 X-UIDL: eb6293cb64efe4785aa0b2dd8fcffb7d >> How much does an echoplex cost (US) anyway? Is >> there anywhere i can try one out within a reasonoble >> driving distance from Philly? > >Echoplexes often aren't as expensive as you'd think. The retail is about >$879 for a new unit, but for just over $500 I picked up a brand new unit >*plus* the foot controller. Why? The store I got it at (Nadine's here >in L.A., incidentally one of the few places I've found that even stocks >the thing) wanted to move the units. Loopers are pretty esoteric; very >few people know what they are, and most of the few that do don't have the >right combination of interest and finance. So you should be able to >track down one of the three "Big Ones" (JamMan, Echoplex, or Boomerang) >at a pretty decent cost. > >Imagining the day Boss comes out with the $250 LP-1 looping stompbox, > >--Andre Also, the Echoplex uses 30 pin SIMMs for memory. I've seen prices for the 4MB simms as low as $30!!!! That means you can get a full 200 seconds in an Echoplex for only $120 or so. When the thing first came out nearly 2 years ago, the 4MB simms were close to $200 each, and having the full 200 seconds seemed like such an extravagant luxury. Now it seems like everyone should have that much.... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Sep 12 04:01:49 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 12 03:33:36 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v195T-0001lW-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 03:33:35 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v193Y-00078T-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 03:31:36 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 03:29:43 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Unidentified subject! Resent-Message-ID: <"l3epDD.A.csG.Ga-Ny"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/58 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 03:31:36 -0700 X-UIDL: 574e9dbfaa8ebfac07d633ca62f753b7 >Anyways, I have been running the Jam Man on the effects loop of a small >mixer, with my bass and guitar and a microphone plugged into the inputs of >the mixer. I usually start the loops with an acoustic drum, to create a >groove, throw in a bass line, add some textures with an accordian, then jam >guitar to my heart's content! At first, I was upset that I couldn't "edit" >or "save" my loop with the jam man -- but I have found that this has freed >me up: I'm not concerned about getting it "just right." I just play! I >have had a lot of fun with this approach, especially when there is no-one >around to jam with. However, I've also created some loops, that I enjoyed >so much, it was rather painful to erase. You know, I've had the same experience. I'm basically an improv player, and I find looping fits that just perfectly. During the echoplex development I created and destroyed thousands and thousands of loops while testing one thing or another. Some of them were really good, too. But I found that it didn't really bother me after a while. I developed a confidence in myself that at any given time I could make a pretty good loop right off the top of my head, so saving them wasn't so important. The exciting and challenging thing for me is the creation of something new and interesting each time. The process of developing a loop is the fun part. Once I'm done with it, I'm usually not so interested in it anymore, and want to make a new one. >Cheers! > >- Chris > >--------------------------------------- >Chris Chovit >cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov >--------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Sep 12 10:03:03 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 12 04:42:06 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1A9l-0002W1-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 04:42:05 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1A8v-0004KR-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 04:41:13 -0700 Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 07:39:24 -0400 From: "S. Patrick Hickey" Message-Id: <199609121139.HAA11771@nielsenmedia.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Hello and such Resent-Message-ID: <"I5pJB.A.6DE.Yb_Ny"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/62 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 04:41:13 -0700 X-UIDL: bca5f4f3931354a0da059f400f831fb4 Get me in on the programming. I'd love the opportunity to learn DSPs and other digital audio stuff well. My knowledge of these toys is only precursory/perfunctory/(perversity?) currently. I've long wanted to avoid all the prefab and give algorithmic control to the musician (me!:). Loops, forwards, backwards, pitch shift, harmony, editing, ... This would be a whole lot more fun than coding C++ client/server foundation programs for metering tool platforms (which is what my current contract is). Pat Hickey (I really will talk about my looping soon!) ***SPH brzrkr@nielsenmedia.com From ???@??? Thu Sep 12 04:01:50 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 12 03:43:00 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v19EY-0001tI-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 03:42:59 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v19Gj-0000Rk-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 03:45:13 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 03:43:15 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Essential loop recordings Resent-Message-ID: <"PUklrC.A.na.2m-Ny"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/59 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 03:45:13 -0700 X-UIDL: 08f49cf74160edfbbc194c75c7b59392 >Is there room on this list for looping not supported by technology? I'm >thinking for example of Erik Satie's _Vexations_ (a slow piano phrase >repeated 840 times--taking some 17 hours; I participated in a group >performance of this in the early 80s) and Terry Riley's seminal _In C_, >which certainly involves looping although manually played. The technology is really just a tool that makes the musical concept easy to accomplish, without tendonitis, boredom, muscle cramps, bladder infections, and whatever else you may experience during 17 hours of a single piano phrase! Discussing the concept of repetitive elements in music is certainly valid for the list, I think that's one of the things that makes looping so interesting. For me it can be almost trance inducing, and I think its that quality that causes people to enjoy repetively-oriented music whether it be traditional musics from various cultures or the four-on-the-floor house grooves at an all night rave. kim >Glad to see this list is up and running so quickly! > >Kevin Holm-Hudson >Department of Academic Studies and Composition >Northwestern University School of Music >711 Elgin Rd. >Evanston, IL 60208 > >"The mind should wander long before the pitch begins to." -Khh > >******************************************************************************* ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Sep 12 04:01:52 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 12 03:56:13 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v19RM-00022W-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 03:56:12 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v19Qj-0001Gw-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 03:55:33 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 03:53:37 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Hello and such Resent-Message-ID: <"EVnU4.A.NMB.hw-Ny"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/60 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 03:55:33 -0700 X-UIDL: fdeb37697c76a365623d1629dabbb4b8 >Here's a technique I use with the JamMan to get a more flexible, >improvisational feel from it. When I first got it, I tended to use it to >start a loop, then punch in more layers. But what I found was that >things just got bigger and louder and bigger and louder. It had a very >one-way dynamic. Now, rather than using the looping functions, I usually >prefer to just use its delay function. There are 16 delay feedback >levels, controlled by the knob on the front. Turn the feedback up high >and start looping. At 16, you effectively have infinite repeat. As >things build, you can turn the feedback down and let a loop fade, then >turn it back up and add more to the loop while the older material floats >in the background. This makes for a much more dynamic and rewarding >looping improv, I think. Control over feedback is one of the most fundamental loop techniques. Without it your loops just develop to a certain point, abruptly disappear, and a new loop begins developing. You don't have any continuity, so your loops can't grow and evolve into something else. With the echoplex we give 3 ways to do this; the knob on the front, a jack on the back for a foot pedal, and midi continuous control. Being a guitarist, I use the footpedal method. I couldn't live without it, I vary the feedback constantly to let things disappear at different rates or stay around for a while. I didn't realize the Jamman only gave 16 different levels. That seems sort of limiting to me, but even so I think it can open up a lot of doors for you if you haven't been using it much. Try it out, it definitely opens up the possibilities for loop improvs. >Second, I'm primarily an acoustic guitarist, not electric. I don't play >electric much and I'm not really comfortable on it. Hopefully, I'll be >getting a new acoustic with a pickup soon, and I'll see how that works as >a tone source. I rather like the idea of sending the warm, woody sound >of an acoustic guitar through my effects and seeing what comes out! > One thing that really surprised me with the echoplex is that a very significant number of users are solo acoustic guitarists. I had no idea that that particular use would be so popular. A lot of people have been composing fingerstyle pieces around their echoplexes! So by all means, get that guitar! kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Sep 12 10:03:05 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 12 04:58:52 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1APz-00046n-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 04:58:51 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1ASI-0004ZE-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 05:01:14 -0700 Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 07:58:59 -0400 From: "S. Patrick Hickey" Message-Id: <199609121158.HAA12532@nielsenmedia.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Hello and such Resent-Message-ID: <"Y1spmC.A.SSE.Ju_Ny"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/63 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 05:01:14 -0700 X-UIDL: 68b4f224ee91169af0c050e4e3a8f698 OK, so I'm a looper. After seeing Robert Fripp several times back in the late 70's early 80's doing his Revox thing, I eventually purchased two Trashcam 3340s and a TEAC Model 2 mixer to do the same. [ I still have these - one 3340s has about 100 hours on it. The other probably has quite a lot more. They are for sale. ] When I stumbled over the JamMan in the Audio Processing (studio gear) section of Sam Ash, I nearly fell off my stool. I bought it, and the memory upgrade. It completely replaces the two tape decks in the Frippertronics setup. I use it with all 32 secs of delay with about 15 regeneration. Sometimes I will invite some friends over, light some candles, and play what I call "a meditation". I should note that the JamMan doing Frippertronics is not identical to the tape setup, because it does not have the noise of the decks. This is both a blessing and a curse: a blessing, because the inputs do not tend to get distorted and overloaded, and the sound remains exactly as placed; a curse, because the decay characteristics are also very clean (the tape sweeps the envelope into the treble more and more with each "loop", and old inputs end up sounding like white noise "waves" coming in and out). I have been frustrated by the JamMan in the loop mode. It just does not have enough memory to get a meaningful set of phrases together to do a complete song. I get about 3 very short segments (ABC), but they are really short. If they don't happen to line up in meter, I cannot duplicate them to force them to line up, because the memory is gone. I'd also like to be able to control the phrase sequencing without having to remember to step to the correct phrase in the midst of a wailing riff (yea, yea, I know, I need a 'puter - more like, I need the *scratch* for a 'puter). The memory for the JamMan looks like special purpose analog memory (I'm guessing). Whatever it is, it's not SIMMs, and it's expensive, and you can't put more than 32 secs into the box. This all points me to the Echoplex. Does it do loops/segments/regen'delays like JamMan? I use the JamMan after my effects box (SGX Nitro) so that the effects get on the loop. Unfortunately, this forces the input levels on the JamMan *really* low. Sometimes I even need to limit the output of the Nitro (which is at the factory setting of 50%, usually). Is this an impedance mismatch? Would a mixer help? LooperrepooL Pat Hickey ***SPH brzrkr@nielsenmedia.com From ???@??? Thu Sep 12 04:01:53 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 12 03:58:31 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v19Ta-00024I-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 03:58:30 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v19WQ-0001ja-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 04:01:26 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 03:59:35 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Hello and such Resent-Message-ID: <"7Bm0b.A.CoB.E2-Ny"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/61 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 04:01:26 -0700 X-UIDL: 00597881714ee9fbd7fe5c84f479ba1d >And as long as I'm talking... I have to admit, as many of us do, I'm >beginning to despair of ever seeing a low-cost, high-function, >musician-oriented looping device on the commercial market. They're all >either too pricy (TC 2290), too limiting (JamMan), poor sound, or (worst) >out of production. But... I think there may be a solution. And that >solution is software. Oberheim might put out a product like this if they get their act together. They've been planning it for a long time. >Ordinary desktop PCs and Macs these days offer 16 bit full duplex sound >recording, huge memories (16 bit stereo sound is about 10mb/minute), and >blazingly fast CPUs. And pleasant input devices, in the form of MIDI >faders, expression pedals, and footswitches, are also commercially >available. So why not just turn a PC into our looping device? It may be >a little impractical for the stage, but it'd be GREAT for home recording >and playing. Performance interaction could occur via any MIDI device, >and new/clever functionality could be added at the software level. A gui >with a keyboard and mouse could be used, rather than the tiny knobs, >buttons and LCD screens that can fit on a 19" rack. Save your loops? >Use the computer's filesystem. Process your loops in real time. Switch >instantly between loops. Reverse them. Extend them. > >I really like this idea. Once you take the hardware issues (digitizing, >user interface) out of it, it's just a matter of throwing CPU and RAM at >the problem until it goes away. MacLoop! Matthias has been evangalizing for this idea for ages. Somebody definitely has to do it. A protools plug in and a standalone would be my choice. >Anyone wanna buy me a new computer so I can write this? Be careful what you wish for Dave..... How are your programming chops? >-dave kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Sep 12 10:03:16 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 12 09:02:21 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1EDb-0001oP-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 09:02:19 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1EF1-0000ym-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 09:03:47 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 09:03:43 -0400 To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Echolplex problems Resent-Message-ID: <"WUHa.A.y6.hRDOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 09:03:47 -0700 X-UIDL: 5d3ad6f7f676250a0196b7331b96e67c Hello all, Well, I think its about time to bring up some of the problems I've been having with the Oberheim echolplex. I'd like to make sure that I'm not alone, and maybe someone can suggest some solutions. There are two main problems I've run across, one of which has been solved, but I'll mention it anyways, in case someone else is experiencing the same thing: 1. The brother sync (which allows multiple echoplexes to be synced together, and also allows any of the linked units to be the "master") does not work with more than three units, although the manual would lead you to believe that it does. When I tried to sync my two units with my brother's (he's really my brother!) two units, I experienced some weirdness: None of the units would receive the sync pulse from any of the other units. After successfuly syncing every combination of "three unit" setups, and checking my cables, I determined that the individual units were operating OK -- but when 4 units were "brother synced" together, the sync would not work properly. After bringing this to Kim's attention, he discovered a design flaw: it turns out this problem can be solved with a simple resistor swap. (Kim, perhaps you can restate the details of this for others who may be attempting to sync 4 or more units together). 2. I have tried to sync my echoplex to a MIDI sequencer, by programming the sequencer to send out the two record pulses (which define the loop length) via MIDI NOTE ON messages. However, after a few minutes, the echolplex loop begins to "drift" away from the sequencer. How can I solve this problem? Is there a way to keep the echoplex synced to the sequencer indefinetly. (I have successfully gotten past this by syncing the sequencer off the echoplex, but this does not suit my purposes as well). 3. I guess I should mention another minor bug, when using the brother sync: Often the echolplexes do not Power ON correctly, when connected to other units via the brother sync. In this case, I need to unplug all the brother sync cables, power on the units, then plug the brother sync cables back in. 4. I guess I would also like to take this opportunity to perform a little "Oberheim bashing": While the echoplex units are quite remarkable, and bugs are to be expected from such new technology, I am quite unsatisfied with Oberheim's customer service. They do not answer their phones. Many times they have not returned my calls. They have denied that these bugs exist. My brother and I sent in our units months ago, to be upgraded, and we haven't heard one word from them regarding their status -- they won't return our calls! (for all I know, $2000 worth of out equipment was lost in the mail!). Anyways, enough about that. My goal isn't really to bash Oberheim -- but I want to make my experiences known. By the way, this last item does not apply to my dealings with Kim. He has been quite helpful, and I really appreciate his service! Keep on loopin'! - Chris --------------------------------------- Chris Chovit cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov --------------------------------------- From ???@??? Thu Sep 12 10:03:06 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 12 06:10:35 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1BXO-0005Cq-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 06:10:34 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1BZW-0005Zi-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 06:12:46 -0700 Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 09:12:00 -0400 From: fabiok@ca.newbridge.com (Fabio Katz) Message-Id: <199609121312.JAA10608@extension.newbridge> To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: how much is an echoplex? Cc: fabiok@thor.ca.newbridge.com X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"3SUoVC.A.uOF.MxAOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/64 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 06:12:46 -0700 X-UIDL: a62d9d4b475a99f53f42f6e38aad0188 Hi Clark, I just got an Echoplex from Sam Ash (NYC) for US 559, plus US 100 for the foot pedal. I then bought 4x4Meg SIMMS for US 140 at a local computer store (I live in Ottawa, Canada), to expand the loop time to 198 seconds. Works like a charm :-) Fabio From ???@??? Thu Sep 12 10:03:09 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 12 07:22:42 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1CfB-0006y6-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 07:22:41 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1Chm-0006ew-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 07:25:22 -0700 Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 10:29:11 -0400 From: cwb@platinum.com (Clark Battle) Message-Id: <199609121429.KAA11826@octopus.ab.platinum.com> To: Loopers-Delight@slip.net Subject: Re: Echoplex/Jamman X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"jlN8HD.A.7PG.R1BOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/65 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 07:25:22 -0700 X-UIDL: 4d29aa660990023e5f2f3305beb15bac >You happy fellow should know that a jaman is around (converted in US >dollars) $1000 here in france, not to mention the price of an echoplex! >Darn it! you said you could have a jam man for 150 bucks! It is going to >drive me crazy! Why not mail order it from an american distributor like Musician's Friend? From ???@??? Thu Sep 12 10:03:11 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 12 07:58:51 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1DE9-00000O-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 07:58:49 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1DG6-0007JD-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 08:00:50 -0700 Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 10:00:22 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Hello and such In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"jAd9GB.A.92G.hWCOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 08:00:50 -0700 X-UIDL: e6e53be36603a54d0bb80230e6121391 On Thu, 12 Sep 1996, Kim Flint wrote: > > >Ordinary desktop PCs and Macs these days offer 16 bit full duplex sound > >recording, huge memories (16 bit stereo sound is about 10mb/minute), and > >blazingly fast CPUs. And pleasant input devices, in the form of MIDI > >faders, expression pedals, and footswitches, are also commercially > >available. So why not just turn a PC into our looping device? It may be > >a little impractical for the stage, but it'd be GREAT for home recording > >and playing. Performance interaction could occur via any MIDI device, > >and new/clever functionality could be added at the software level. A gui > >with a keyboard and mouse could be used, rather than the tiny knobs, > >buttons and LCD screens that can fit on a 19" rack. Save your loops? > >Use the computer's filesystem. Process your loops in real time. Switch > >instantly between loops. Reverse them. Extend them. > > > >I really like this idea. Once you take the hardware issues (digitizing, > >user interface) out of it, it's just a matter of throwing CPU and RAM at > >the problem until it goes away. > > MacLoop! Matthias has been evangalizing for this idea for ages. Somebody > definitely has to do it. A protools plug in and a standalone would be my > choice. > > > >Anyone wanna buy me a new computer so I can write this? > > Be careful what you wish for Dave..... How are your programming chops? > Actually, I'm a professional programmer, and I have a pretty good grasp of numeric analysis programming and how audio works. My usual environment is Unix, but I'm sure I could pick up Mac/Windows programming easily enough if I tried. Yeah, I'm seriously considering buying a new Power Mac just to work on this idea. What do y'all think? Would you be willing to use a personal computer for a looping device? Do you HAVE a computer capable of this sort of thing? All the necessary hardware is built into Power Macs and most modern PCs. The whole thing could be sold as software, or even given away. Let's think about this. What sort of features would we like to see? What about the user interface? -dave From ???@??? Thu Sep 12 10:03:14 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 12 08:22:21 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1Das-0000dU-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 08:22:18 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1Dcb-0007nI-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 08:24:05 -0700 Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 11:23:17 -0400 From: fabiok@ca.newbridge.com (Fabio Katz) Message-Id: <199609121523.LAA10651@extension.newbridge> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: How much memory does the Echoplex ship with? X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ANYdSD.A.-TH.SsCOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/68 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 08:24:05 -0700 X-UIDL: 0a1749540f34b7fa59b9de5668451db8 Hi Todd, I forgot to mention in my previous post that the Echoplex I bought from Sam Ash for $559 came with 1M of RAM (4X256K), which gives you around 12.5 seconds. Fabio From ???@??? Fri Sep 13 01:10:13 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 12 10:43:39 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1Fnd-0005mm-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 10:43:37 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1FA6-0002gR-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 10:02:46 -0700 Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 13:01:19 -0400 From: fabiok@ca.newbridge.com (Fabio Katz) Message-Id: <199609121701.NAA10685@extension.newbridge> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Hi Loopists! Cc: fabiok@thor.ca.newbridge.com X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"8uG-KD.A.JhC.1IEOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/70 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 10:02:46 -0700 X-UIDL: f4bdbc22a71cf91d58460e943c6985c9 Hi Loopists! It's great to be part of this list! I just got the Echoplex last Friday, and a couple of days later (thanks Teed!) I learned about this list, very good timing indeed! Thanks Kim for starting the list, and everybody for your contributions. Brief history of my looping life (it really starts with overdubs...): - First time I heard of somebody playing more than one part was when Paul McCartney released his first solo album (I think he plays all instruments). - As soon as I could get hold of two cheap cassette recorders, I did some overdubs by playing back on one and recording through the mike on the other, adding guitar, voice and percussion. Not really looping, but lots of fun, terrible sound. - I built myself a simple stereo mixer, and using two stereo tape decks I did stereo overdubs adding electric guitar and some keyboard. Better sound, still lots of work. - I got a 4 track and did lots of experiments, adding a synthesizer to the list of instruments. - I got into MIDI and synced the sequencer to the 4 track to mix 3 real tracks and many virtual tracks on the synthesizer. More convenient, good sound, but I wanted to play live. I've played live along with tapes a couple of times, but I enjoy it more when all the sound is created right there. - In a duo situation (Stick/guitar - guitar/didgeridoo) I've been using the 2 seconds delay loop in the Boss SE-50. Very limited but great tool to try live loops. I've used it in two ways: 1. Overdub a rich rythmic pattern as background for solos (max feedback) 2. Set to repeat once, I alternate playing background and solo every other 2 seconds, it sounds like two people and it changes all the time. - Since last Friday I've used the Echoplex for quite a few hours. I find it opens many possibilities for practising, arranging, composing, soloing, and of course playing live. I'm looking forward to exchanging ideas with all of you on ways of using looping machines, and anything specific to the Echoplex, which exceeds my expectations so far. Fabio Katz Ottawa, Canada From ???@??? Fri Sep 13 01:10:36 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 12 16:05:35 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1KpC-0000Xq-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 16:05:34 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1KeF-0004xy-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 15:54:15 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: ToddM@LaserMaster.Com Organization: LaserMaster Corporation Date: 12 Sep 1996 17:52:45CST6CDT Subject: Moo. Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail/Mac v2.0 Message-ID: Resent-Message-ID: <"baIduB.A.KqE.VSJOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/78 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 15:54:15 -0700 X-UIDL: bf10648fa479d3408ddc6e365f49cf2a Hey folks: Here's some of the recordings that got me into looping big time: Steve Tibbets: Safe Journey The only recording I've ever heard where an electric guitar (or acoustic) was made to hum like a frigidaire refrigerator. Amazing stuff, especially the last track "Going Somewhere". One of my all-time favorites. Tons of loops and delay / harmonizer work here, almost hallucinogenic. The perfect soundtrack for a cross-country journey by night (and why not? I used this to travel to Toronto by night from Minneapolis on an all-night roadtrip to see T. Dream once...) Mr. David Torn: Polytown Looping in a power trio context. Heady metal indeed. I saw this band on the tour they did and Dave totally destroyed the concept that effects take the balls and raw edge off your music: his guitar tone was like a molten gold switchblade slicing through my cerebrum. And he actually made his guitar sound like water rushing through sewer piping at one point which made me laugh out loud. A real nice guy, too, as it turns out. Robert Fripp: 1999, Live in Argentina: The first three tracks are some of the most amazingly dense and monolithic yet emotionally affecting music I've heard yet, yet scary in an unknowable way. "The best way I know to make a hell of a lot of noise with one guitar." Indeed. See also "Threnody for Souls in Torment" off the RFSQ CD for the scariest dose of looping on the planet. I won't get into Eno now, though I could go on for a bit. Kiss - Love Gun Just kidding. Megadeth - Loop Bootleg Loops for hours. Also just kidding. I'll shut up now. From ???@??? Fri Sep 13 01:10:12 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 12 10:43:38 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1Fnc-0005mm-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 10:43:36 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1FMm-00032o-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 10:15:52 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 10:14:00 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Echoplex/Jamman Resent-Message-ID: <"0kh0eD.A.y2C.GVEOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/71 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 10:15:52 -0700 X-UIDL: 5ce4440f1519af0d5b627cea9d4ab01c >>You happy fellow should know that a jaman is around (converted in US >>dollars) $1000 here in france, not to mention the price of an echoplex! >>Darn it! you said you could have a jam man for 150 bucks! It is going to >>drive me crazy! > >Why not mail order it from an american distributor like Musician's >Friend? A lot of American music instrument manufacturers have had trouble with importing things to Europe lately, because CE approvals can be an expensive process. Most of these companies are small and have a tough time finding the money to pay for emissions scans, the engineering talent to design products that pass, and the resources to completely redo the thing so that it can be exported to Europe. We had this problem with the Echoplex. Since I'm not involved in that anymore, I don't know if they have actually passed CE and are allowed to sell it in Europe yet. That's one reason why these things are so expensive there. I'm not sure if Sam Ash or other American distributors can sell overseas. They would probably get in trouble with the manufacturers since they would be competing with European distributors. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Fri Sep 13 01:10:10 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 12 10:43:36 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1Fna-0005mm-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 10:43:34 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1FUX-0003HV-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 10:23:53 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 10:21:56 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Someone in Distress in France sans Looper Resent-Message-ID: <"q7up7.A.yED.icEOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/72 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 10:23:53 -0700 X-UIDL: aa101499f05c79b7e20db1f9b62e5df7 >The person who wrote from France who was distressed due to >the $150 price tag on a particular rack effect (he thought >it was the JamMan) was actually distressed about this price >on the Vortex. > >The Guitar Center in Minneapolis was blowing out Vortex >processors as fast as can be this past month and I got >mine for a ridiculous $149.95, brand new in the box with >footpedal and manual. > >Now it's not the JamMan, but it's still very nice and I'll >likely be picking either that or the Echoplex up within >the next year, now that I find out the Echoplex was available >from Sam Ash for $559... > >Kim: How much memory does the Echoplex ship with? > >Thanks. It ships with 4 256KB simms, which gives you 12.5 seconds. It has four simm slots that take 30 pin simms, in pairs. You get about 12.5 seconds per MB you put in, so maxing out with 4 4MB simms at 200 seconds. Since memory is so cheap now, you can upgrade to the full 200 seconds for about $120-$140. I'd highly recommend the memory increase. A lot of echoplex functions become much more useful with greater memory. Undo of overdubs, multiple loops, multiply, etc. It really gives you much broader looping possibilities, far more than just 200 second loops. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Fri Sep 13 01:10:08 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 12 10:43:33 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1FnY-0005mm-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 10:43:32 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1FiY-0003hZ-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 10:38:22 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 10:36:11 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Echolplex problems Resent-Message-ID: <"ij_9AC.A.KeD.HqEOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/73 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 10:38:22 -0700 X-UIDL: 0cac4480e0ecf425f4eaeca54936ea97 >1. The brother sync (which allows multiple echoplexes to be synced >together, and also allows any of the linked units to be the "master") does >not work with more than three units, although the manual would lead you to >believe that it does. When I tried to sync my two units with my brother's >(he's really my brother!) two units, I experienced some weirdness: None of >the units would receive the sync pulse from any of the other units. After >successfuly syncing every combination of "three unit" setups, and checking >my cables, I determined that the individual units were operating OK -- but >when 4 units were "brother synced" together, the sync would not work >properly. After bringing this to Kim's attention, he discovered a design >flaw: it turns out this problem can be solved with a simple resistor swap. >(Kim, perhaps you can restate the details of this for others who may be >attempting to sync 4 or more units together). This is a simple resistor swap. I don't have time to explain it now, this evening I'll write it up for you all. It should be on the web site. And thanks to chris for finding this problem! >2. I have tried to sync my echoplex to a MIDI sequencer, by programming >the sequencer to send out the two record pulses (which define the loop >length) via MIDI NOTE ON messages. However, after a few minutes, the >echolplex loop begins to "drift" away from the sequencer. How can I solve >this problem? Is there a way to keep the echoplex synced to the sequencer >indefinetly. > >(I have successfully gotten past this by syncing the sequencer off the >echoplex, but this does not suit my purposes as well). the answer here is to use midi clock for syncing. It does work in the current shipping version, although the upgrade that is not yet shipping has made huge improvements in this area. >3. I guess I should mention another minor bug, when using the brother >sync: Often the echolplexes do not Power ON correctly, when connected to >other units via the brother sync. In this case, I need to unplug all the >brother sync cables, power on the units, then plug the brother sync cables >back in. Is one or all of your units pretty old? I think the first 50-100 were really prone to this. New ones are less so. Shortly before I quit g-wiz I came up with a design improvement that totally solves these problems. I'm pretty sure it is not part of the current fab. Its a bit more complicated than a resistor swap, but I'd be happy to explain it. Just promise you won't all electrocute yourselves! >4. I guess I would also like to take this opportunity to perform a little >"Oberheim bashing": While the echoplex units are quite remarkable, and >bugs are to be expected from such new technology, I am quite unsatisfied >with Oberheim's customer service. They do not answer their phones. Many >times they have not returned my calls. They have denied that these bugs >exist. My brother and I sent in our units months ago, to be upgraded, and >we haven't heard one word from them regarding their status -- they won't >return our calls! (for all I know, $2000 worth of out equipment was lost >in the mail!). Anyways, enough about that. My goal isn't really to bash >Oberheim -- but I want to make my experiences known. > >By the way, this last item does not apply to my dealings with Kim. He has >been quite helpful, and I really appreciate his service! Oberheim's main problem is a lack of resources. (Their other biggest problem is being part of Gibson, but I'll leave some of those tales for another time...) I have strong disagreements with their tendency to then prioritize things so that customers like you suffer in this way. I mean, you bought 5 echoplexes! They should be treating you like a king. -kim >Keep on loopin'! > >- Chris > > >--------------------------------------- >Chris Chovit >cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov >--------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Fri Sep 13 01:10:33 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 12 15:34:31 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1KL8-0007LH-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 15:34:30 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1KNJ-0004ST-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 15:36:45 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 14:37:12 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: Echolplex problems Resent-Message-ID: <"cdaAfB.A.vLE.8BJOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/76 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 15:36:45 -0700 X-UIDL: db76f214a949fb8cfca6e3babc38b5b6 Kim, >the answer here is to use midi clock for syncing. It does work in the >current shipping version, although the upgrade that is not yet shipping has >made huge improvements in this area. Does this only work for loops that are already recorded, or can I use the MIDI clock to create new loops that sync with the sequencer, as well? > >Is one or all of your units pretty old? I think the first 50-100 were >really prone to this. New ones are less so. Shortly before I quit g-wiz I >came up with a design improvement that totally solves these problems. I'm >pretty sure it is not part of the current fab. Its a bit more complicated >than a resistor swap, but I'd be happy to explain it. Just promise you >won't all electrocute yourselves! Yes, the units were purchased soon after they came out. Please send the procedure when you get a chance. Oberheim has my units right now, anyways, so there's no hurry...Thanks! - Chris --------------------------------------- Chris Chovit cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov --------------------------------------- From ???@??? Fri Sep 13 01:10:20 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 12 12:40:01 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1HcF-0001tg-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 12:39:59 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1HUe-00076Z-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 12:32:08 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960912193731.00682b94@xenon.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@xenon.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 12:37:31 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Echolplex problems Resent-Message-ID: <"lXBaUC.A.oqG.2UGOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/74 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 12:32:08 -0700 X-UIDL: 1f60d715a2b4e6cd4d6f0661d6590684 >>4. I guess I would also like to take this opportunity to perform a little >>"Oberheim bashing": While the echoplex units are quite remarkable, and >>bugs are to be expected from such new technology, I am quite unsatisfied >>with Oberheim's customer service. They do not answer their phones. Many >>times they have not returned my calls. They have denied that these bugs >>exist. My brother and I sent in our units months ago, to be upgraded, and >>we haven't heard one word from them regarding their status -- they won't >>return our calls! (for all I know, $2000 worth of out equipment was lost >>in the mail!). Anyways, enough about that. My goal isn't really to bash >>Oberheim -- but I want to make my experiences known. >> >>By the way, this last item does not apply to my dealings with Kim. He has >>been quite helpful, and I really appreciate his service! > >Oberheim's main problem is a lack of resources. (Their other biggest >problem is being part of Gibson, but I'll leave some of those tales for >another time...) I have strong disagreements with their tendency to then >prioritize things so that customers like you suffer in this way. I mean, >you bought 5 echoplexes! They should be treating you like a king. > > >-kim > Just thought of another idea for you here. Call Gibson's customer service line about the problem. They are much more responsive, and are actually reasonably good as a customer service team. I think the number is 1-800-4-GIBSON. It should be on their web site, www.gibson.com. kim ___________________________________ Kim Flint OEM Engineering Chromatic Research 408-752-9284 From ???@??? Fri Sep 13 01:10:41 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 12 17:20:17 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1LzS-0003B7-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 17:20:15 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1Lzs-0007Hr-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 17:20:40 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 17:19:04 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: Moo. Resent-Message-ID: <"-cw1tB.A.V1G.HjKOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/79 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 17:20:40 -0700 X-UIDL: 03a9a2f9d6455d58d3d8b8ce5150aa61 Hey, I appreciate the reccomendations for musics that use looping. I'm always interested in hearing new stuff. Here's a couple of the key albums that got me into the loops: Ash Ra -- Inventions for Electric Guitar: Most of the Ash Ra (and Manuel Gottshing's solo stuff) uses looping -- it has a Tangerine Dream - like quality, but is much more guitar-oriented (esp. Inventions for E.G.). He gets really sweet guitar tones (I think he mainly used a Gibson SG) and has some nice anolog key textures. And considering this one is from ~1971 (I think), he was surely one of the pioneers of looping. I'm not sure if he actually used looping devices, though. He might have just multitracked it, but the music is quite repetitive. If you like this one, try "Blackouts", "Walking the Desert", and Gottshing's "Dream & Desire" Steve Reich - Music for 16 Musicians: I'm sure many of you put this album on a pedastal. And even though the entire piece (~an hour long?) is entirely performed, Reich's use of repetition vs. change is remarkable. He often employs a technique of bringing in a repeating melody, one note at time (and not necessarily in order), repeating each step 4 times, until the whole meoldy is there, then takes away one note at a time until the melody is gone. This, all the while other melodies are being formed and taken away. He'll have several meoldies going on at once, entertwining with each other, and at different "phases" of their compositional "lifetime". Reich's "Music for Mallet Instruments" really moves me too. Enjoy! - Chris --------------------------------------- Chris Chovit cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov --------------------------------------- From ???@??? Fri Sep 13 01:10:32 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 12 15:16:22 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1K3Z-0006jB-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 15:16:21 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1K5B-0003wS-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 15:18:01 -0700 Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 15:16:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609122216.PAA16533@pure.pure.com> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <199609110354.UAA28109@barley.adnc.com> Subject: Unidentified subject! Resent-Message-ID: <"lP_eSB.A.ssD.WwIOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/75 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 15:18:01 -0700 X-UIDL: b568fffe31db8e4c46486412f92af5dd studio seventeen productions writes: >Nice to be part of the start of a list instead of joing three years into it! > >Great suggestion about compiling lists of important loop >recordings......indeed No Pussyfooting, Evening Star.....eno's Discreet Music... If you're going to include Discreet Music (which wasn't a performed looped piece), you should also include the Reich pieces that inspired it and the Fripp/Eno stuff, such as "It's Gonna Rain". From ???@??? Fri Sep 13 01:10:47 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 12 18:15:46 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1MrB-00062A-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 18:15:45 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1Mt9-00013Q-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 18:17:47 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 18:17:21 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: Memory prices Resent-Message-ID: <"rMv2yB.A.M_.4YLOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/84 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 18:17:47 -0700 X-UIDL: afcfc259364ff66923dfdcfbb4ddcca5 >I was wondering what prices you all have encountered for the JamMan >upgrade. I know memory prices are dipping low, but Lexicon's prices remain >high. Any suggestions? I picked up the memory (full-upgrade) via mail order for ~$120 (over a year ago -- they might be cheaper now). I don't remember the name of the company, but Lexicon referred me to them, and I remember that they were located in Texas. (Sorry for the lack of info -- but one call to Lexicon should get you in the right direction). Also, I picked up an Echoplex (over a year ago) through Manny's Mailbox (New York) for $479 (+ $70 for the foot pedal) THis was the best price I found at the time, but I haven't shopped for them recently. - Chris --------------------------------------- Chris Chovit cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov --------------------------------------- From ???@??? Fri Sep 13 01:10:35 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 12 15:47:45 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1KXw-0007ks-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 15:47:44 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1KWe-0004jA-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 15:46:24 -0700 Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 15:44:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609122244.PAA20185@pure.pure.com> From: Ray Peck To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: Unidentified subject! Resent-Message-ID: <"TdexFD.A.4bE.-KJOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/77 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 15:46:24 -0700 X-UIDL: 6aca2822cf28ec1f403b4934986042ba >I am interested in learning some of the techniques people are using to >save, and possibly edit loops, after the fact. I have a Macintosh -- are >there some good (and inexpensive) digital editors out there for the Mac? For multitrack stuff, Deck 2 ($299) works pretty well. It's not perfect, but it sure beats the hell out of tape. I recently got Logic Audio to replace it since it's allegedly the best thing available for HD recording and MIDI). I haven't gotten it installed yet, but stay tuned. LA is more like $600. Depending on how it goes, I may be selling my copy of Deck. Both support external software effects plugins, from Waves, et. al. Stuff like compressor/limiters, EQ, reverb, etc, etc. Both are controllable by various external fader boxes via MIDI. I recently picked up a used Peavey, but again haven't tried it yet. The standard here seems to be the JL Cooper boxes. All of these have faders and trasport controls. The more expensive ones have better, longthrow faders (100mm), but are close to $1k. That's a lot of dough for a box that does nothing but send MIDI messages, IMO. Then there's the Mackie automated mixer solution. I doubt that you can run it simultaneously with hard disk recording software. Finally, if you want fast editing of two tracks, try Bias Peak. I bought it for around $300 for editing tracks for CD-R. It's super fast for two track editing. All these folks have web pages. Deck: http://www.macromedia.com/software/sound/index.html Logic: http://www.emagic.de Peak: http://www.bias-inc.com From ???@??? Fri Sep 13 01:10:43 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 12 17:38:41 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1MHH-0004Il-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 17:38:39 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1MJW-00004N-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 17:40:58 -0700 Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 17:37:55 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Boomerang Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"hCHZHB.A.AE.Y2KOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/80 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 17:40:59 -0700 X-UIDL: 202e1ee73da9a1e6acf07160ce19a972 Just wnated to mention to anyone who hasn't seen it yet that the Boomerang phrase sampler is reviewed in the current ish of Guitar Player magazine (with Los Lobos on the cover). Check it out. --Andre From ???@??? Fri Sep 13 01:10:44 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 12 17:42:13 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1MKg-0004Ss-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 17:42:10 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1MLo-00008K-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 17:43:20 -0700 Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 17:40:27 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Vortex? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"aJFyMC.A.-H.n4KOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/81 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 17:43:20 -0700 X-UIDL: c393eefb6ad2ec26465c79467c7802a1 All of this talk about Vortex units at rock-bottom prices has piqued my interest, so would someone be willing to give a more in-depth account of the thing? More specifically, what exactly can it do, how does it compare to other single-rack-space units, how's the MIDI implementation, etc... One personal interest question: How slow can the sweep rate of pitch-modulation effects (i.e. phasing etc) be set? Thanks in advance, and sorry if this is too off-topical for the list. --Andre From ???@??? Fri Sep 13 01:10:46 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 12 18:02:55 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1Mek-0005Wi-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 18:02:54 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1MbX-0000XY-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 17:59:35 -0700 Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 21:01:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Sean Malone X-Sender: malone@satie To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com cc: tk10@columbia.edu, howarth@u.arizona.edu, jspeer@haverford.edu, finley@ecst.csuchico.edu, altruist@shoko.calarts.edu, kholmhud@nwu.edu Subject: Re: Memory prices In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"FOGorB.A.Tg.1HLOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/82 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 17:59:35 -0700 X-UIDL: 07080b41bb2548337e23980a436c80e7 I was wondering what prices you all have encountered for the JamMan upgrade. I know memory prices are dipping low, but Lexicon's prices remain high. Any suggestions? Sean From ???@??? Fri Sep 13 01:10:49 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 12 18:16:28 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1Mrr-00063d-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 18:16:27 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1Msh-00011z-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 18:17:19 -0700 Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 18:11:54 -0700 Message-Id: <199609130111.SAA15102@barley.adnc.com> X-Sender: ambient@mail.adnc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: studio seventeen productions Subject: Re: Unidentified subject! Resent-Message-ID: <"Tb8Ly.A.59.dYLOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/83 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 18:17:19 -0700 X-UIDL: 3eeea7e3916bda416c823ea6b16bf66e At 03:16 PM 9/12/96 -0700, you wrote: >studio seventeen productions writes: >>Nice to be part of the start of a list instead of joing three years into it! >> >>Great suggestion about compiling lists of important loop >>recordings......indeed No Pussyfooting, Evening Star.....eno's Discreet Music... > RAY PECK THEN WROTE: >If you're going to include Discreet Music (which wasn't a performed >looped piece), you should also include the Reich pieces that inspired >it and the Fripp/Eno stuff, such as "It's Gonna Rain". > AND THEN dave at studio seventeen said: they SHOULD be included. someone else mentioned mechanically performed "loop" pieces, and sonically they are nearly indistinguishable from "electronically" created (be they tape or digital). a perfect example is the long piece on God Save The King/Robert Fripp (sorry title escapes me momentarily) wherein RF performs MANUAL repetition of the phrase for something like sixteen minutes straight. It SOUNDS like a loop, but it's not. As Kim mentioned, the fascination is in REPETITION (and the way the ear perceives different permutations as the loop repeats)...the method of production should be considered IRREVELANT to the piece as music, but RELEVANT to us as a group exploring that rather large subject: looping. I for one am ignorant of some of these early sources (Reich is mostly a name only to me) and would appreciate their works: a) being included on the compilation lists b) anyone who is familiar with the material: make recommendations about the best pieces to seek out and hear c) put some of them up as sound samples (perhaps on the page) along with their more modern companions let's get as factual of a history as possible. I have heard Fripp say that the two tape deck method used by eno was developed almost concurrently as several different places around the globe (or words to that effect) and so I would think that there is no ONE FOUNDER of the tape-deck to tape-deck methodology. all for now, cheers dave lead me in with a count of seventeen... Mr. Blint Consequences/Godley & Creme visit: http:www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html seventeen: the ambient music page From ???@??? Fri Sep 13 01:10:52 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 12 20:37:07 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1P3y-0002Yv-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 20:37:06 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1P5k-0004Xd-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 20:38:56 -0700 Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 20:37:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609130337.UAA19646@pure.pure.com> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: Hello and such Resent-Message-ID: <"vZ3CCB.A.tQE.MdNOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/85 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 20:38:56 -0700 X-UIDL: 147d5a0157c34d9fd064fb01cceef076 >MacLoop! Matthias has been evangalizing for this idea for ages. Somebody >definitely has to do it. A protools plug in and a standalone would be my >choice. Way too expensive. I've been thinking more along the lines of Deck or Logic Audio. The machines are getting fast enough that one doesn't necessarily need to drop $10k on ProTools hardware. If people balk at $900 for an Echoplex, do you think they're gonna drop $15k for a machine and ProTools?!? BTW, Bias Peak on the Mac has some "automatically loop this think I'm recording" features built in. It's a shame that they only support two stereo tracks. From ???@??? Fri Sep 13 01:10:53 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 12 20:37:44 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1P4Z-0002Zs-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 20:37:43 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1P73-0004aJ-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 20:40:17 -0700 Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 20:38:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609130338.UAA19727@pure.pure.com> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <199609121139.HAA11771@nielsenmedia.com> Subject: Re: Hello and such Resent-Message-ID: <"1gHEbB.A.OTE.eeNOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/86 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 20:40:17 -0700 X-UIDL: b7d868cd2c66d9edab749e66b4b01862 "S. Patrick Hickey" writes: >Get me in on the programming. I'd love the opportunity to learn DSPs and >other digital audio stuff well. My knowledge of these toys is only >precursory/perfunctory/(perversity?) currently. I've long wanted to >avoid all the prefab and give algorithmic control to the musician (me!:). >Loops, forwards, backwards, pitch shift, harmony, editing, ... I wonder if cmusic could be bent to the task. My understanding is that you can now do realtime stuff with cmusic on the Mac. Since it's all algorithmic, and the sources are available, this could be a very good foundation. From ???@??? Fri Sep 13 01:10:55 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 12 20:52:12 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1PIX-00030W-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 20:52:10 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1PKu-0004vP-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 20:54:36 -0700 Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 20:53:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609130353.UAA20374@pure.pure.com> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: Hello and such Resent-Message-ID: <"SsnSxC.A.rnE.6rNOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/87 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 20:54:36 -0700 X-UIDL: 98c7b75bac34a6c03178633cd44f8fa6 >Actually, I'm a professional programmer, and I have a pretty good grasp >of numeric analysis programming and how audio works. My usual >environment is Unix, but I'm sure I could pick up Mac/Windows programming >easily enough if I tried. Me too. >Yeah, I'm seriously considering buying a new Power Mac just to work on >this idea. What do y'all think? Would you be willing to use a personal >computer for a looping device? Do you HAVE a computer capable of this >sort of thing? All the necessary hardware is built into Power Macs and >most modern PCs. The whole thing could be sold as software, or even >given away. I've been thinking about doing this, myself. I have a 6100/60, and will soon buy something newer (180 MHz PowerComputing machine?) for running Deck on. I'd also like to write a virtual analogue synth (patchable) that would work with it. >Let's think about this. What sort of features would we like to see? >What about the user interface? It should be able to work with the upcoming Korg audio card, 'cause the Mac audio inputs are only around 70 db s/n. From ???@??? Fri Sep 13 01:10:58 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 12 21:54:25 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1QGl-0004gm-01; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 21:54:23 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1PNi-00051l-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 20:57:30 -0700 Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 20:56:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609130356.UAA20442@pure.pure.com> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: Hello and such Resent-Message-ID: <"CL5dgC.A.ztE.nuNOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/88 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 20:57:30 -0700 X-UIDL: 55d42116b4ff4a3a76da0965e1257aca Here's a meessage that I send to the Torn list a while back: From: rpeck@pure.com (Ray Peck) Subject: Door X, Issue 67 ! >>but am wondering if anybody knows of any sort of looping device (besides the >>multiple tape recorders >>which I have unfortunately had to resort to) which can record multiple loops OF >>DIFFERENT LENGTHS >>and then play these back simultaneously. I've been thinking about this since seeing DT last year in SF. I was thinking that if I were to try this sort of thing myself (which I'm far off from doing!), I'd want a Mac-based system that let me do multiple tracks, each with different loop times, and to be able to change them on the fly. Think of this sort of thing. Sorry if it doesn't make sense: it's kinda hard to explain. Mac. Screen. Panel of momentary and on/off footswitches and pedals (preferably with giant backlight LCD displays on each one that the software could program to say something meaningful). To start out a track, tap out a few beats on a footswitch. The system syncs, and shows a graphical metronome. Record the first track, tapping another switch for the beginning and end of the loop. You could immediately start recording the next loop (or wait 'till the next go-around), and could specify the length of the loop relative to the first one with a couple switches, by specifying a rational ratio between the lengths. Imagine two "increase the factional part" switches. numerator --------- denominator 1 tap gives you a second loop 1/2 or 2/1 as long, three taps gives you 2/3 or 3/2, etc. You could easily make loops that are 7/8 as long, or whaever, to get really interesting repeating patterns (cf. "Discipline"). The system would show you the waveform of what you've played, like Deck or any other digital audio recording SW does, so you could see what you were doing. You could automate effects, pans, level envelopes, or whatever, on the fly with footpedals. You could also fade loops in and out with pedals. The system could also use spare time, if it has any, to do pitch-to-sheet music conversion so you could *really* see what you were doing. A PowerMac could do all this with no additional hardware (although you might want a Digidesign AudioMedia card for better a/d d/a). Deck will do 8 tracks off of the hard disk on the slowest PowerMac (my 6100/60). Should be easy to do tons of tracks out of DRAM. Now. . . Would anyone buy it? From ???@??? Fri Sep 13 01:10:56 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 12 21:54:24 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1QGl-0004gm-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 21:54:23 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1QJK-0006ZQ-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 21:57:02 -0700 Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 21:55:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609130455.VAA22972@pure.pure.com> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <199609130111.SAA15102@barley.adnc.com> Subject: Re: Unidentified subject! Resent-Message-ID: <"il6IhD.A.lKG.bmOOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/90 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 21:57:02 -0700 X-UIDL: e573be435e53f7dc63d235194b806240 >I for one am ignorant of some of these early sources (Reich is mostly a name >only to me) and would appreciate their works: Well, gee. Eno has stated that the earliest (?) tape loop Reich piece was a major inspiration. It's just been re-released on Elektra/Nonesuch 9 79169-2, "Early Works". Be cautioned that they're not his most listenable pieces. Probably my favorite Reich things are Music for 18 Musicians (ECM 1129) and Different Trains/Electric Counterpoint (Elektra 9 79176-2). Terry Riley is also highly recommended. I can't stand Glass: I feel that all his pieces sound the same. That's probably why he's the most popular of the "minimalists". >let's get as factual of a history as possible. I have heard Fripp say that >the two tape deck method used by eno was developed almost concurrently as >several different places around the globe (or words to that effect) and so I >would think that there is no ONE FOUNDER of the tape-deck to tape-deck >methodology. I have a recording, which I made myself, of Eno discussing "It's Gonna Rain", and explaining that that's where he got the idea, which was passed on to Fripp. From ???@??? Fri Sep 13 01:11:00 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 12 21:56:09 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1QIQ-0004kU-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 21:56:06 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1QIY-0006Xs-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 21:56:14 -0700 Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 23:55:38 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Vortex? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"tqKpG.A.FJG.tlOOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/89 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 21:56:14 -0700 X-UIDL: 14bed102f04141a9cd386cf20747230a I don't think you can compare the Vortex directly to any other multi-effect in its price range. All the boxes coming from companies like ART and Digitech are basically a bunch of generic effects in series. Compression feeds distortion, feeds chorus, feeds delay, feeds reverb, blah blah blah. The Vortex is completely different. The "effects" are actually sets of controls for various points in complex programs. Internal feedback loops pass the signal in various patterns through the modulators and delays. It also has an envelope follower that controls key parts of each program. And an assignable expression pedal input can be used to control any parameter. As far as MIDI goes, it has none at all. If you're MIDI dependent, forget it. Controls consist of two stereo plugs for footswitches (a rather flimsy dual switch is included, that I usually assign to tap and A/B switching), and another input for an expression pedal. But like I said, it's the most MUSICAL multi-effect I've ever used. Sound quality is phenomenal, better than any reasonably-priced digital device I've heard. And the effects are mostly musically useful (as well as a few really weird ones). If you can get one cheap, I'd highly recommend it. These days, the Vortex is pretty much the only effect I use. -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com */ -Charles Fort /* http://www.leepfrog.com/~dstagner */ From ???@??? Fri Sep 13 01:11:01 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 12 23:17:16 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1RYw-0006yy-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 23:17:14 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1RbF-000177-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 23:19:37 -0700 Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 23:18:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: finley@ecst.csuchico.edu (Matthew F. McCabe) Subject: Vortex still available for $149.00 Resent-Message-ID: <"Qr89FB.A.XCB.tzPOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/91 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 23:19:37 -0700 X-UIDL: 25e5bb76d2c5b55cf5c2e5f015086cd3 Just thought I'd let everyone know that the Lexicon Vortex is still available from Guitar Center for 149 bucks....and they will ship. I tried to buy one from an out of state store in order to avoid paying sales tax...didn't work because there's a Guitar Center here. Alas. Matt ------------------------------------------------------------ King Never http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~finley/kingnever.html ------------------------------------------------------------ Matthew F. McCabe Able Cain King Never Marathon Records From ???@??? Fri Sep 13 01:11:03 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 12 23:56:06 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1SAV-0000Eq-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 23:56:03 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1SBz-0001tp-00; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 23:57:35 -0700 Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 08:56:04 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: I'm gonna get some In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"0rgZUD.A.-xB.dXQOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/92 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 23:57:35 -0700 X-UIDL: 66a66600b9a148233543a67c313e26e2 In my long (it appears so) quest for unexpensive ways to get a jamman, a vortex or an echoplex, I suddelly wonder... In france the current is 220 V at 50 hz. Does these units have wall warts (in that case, i just swap the wall wart, it is easy) or do they have internal current transformation (in that case, I would have to open the machine, and that is less easy for me, not to mention that I fear having to do such things...) Pleaaaaassse tell me Olivier From ???@??? Fri Sep 13 03:41:33 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 13 01:55:54 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1U2T-0007ZF-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 01:55:53 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1U0l-0003j7-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 01:54:07 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 01:52:14 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: I'm gonna get some Resent-Message-ID: <"z6xwQD.A.yfD.tESOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/93 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 01:54:07 -0700 X-UIDL: ba2679c780bfb1464581d4aa8ede9805 >In my long (it appears so) quest for unexpensive ways to get a jamman, a >vortex or an echoplex, I suddelly wonder... >In france the current is 220 V at 50 hz. >Does these units have wall warts (in that case, i just swap the wall >wart, it is easy) or do they have internal current transformation (in >that case, I would have to open the machine, and that is less easy for >me, not to mention that I fear having to do such things...) >Pleaaaaassse tell me > >Olivier The Echoplex was designed for international traveling. It has a good, rugged internal power supply with a switch on the back to change between 110V and 220V. You shouldn't have any problems with this. (I designed it, I should know!) In fact, it is made to be quite tolerent of wide votage swings and dropouts, so if you have some sort of power surge or sag on stage, your loop won't die. I spent 5 very long days at the frankfurt musik messe demoing the thing on 220V and it never blinked. I think the Jamman has a wall wart. In my humble opinion, wall warts are the work of the devil, and anyone that designs them into a professional music product ought to be beaten senseless with partially used power strips and whipped with flimsy little power cords. And then they should be made to stand in Guitar Center for a year, explaining to every customer why exactly they are being charged $20 for a manufacturer-labeled wall wart that cost said manufacturer less than a dollar. But I digress...... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Fri Sep 13 03:41:34 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 13 03:12:15 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1VEM-00004U-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 03:12:14 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1VGS-0005Uy-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 03:14:24 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 03:12:15 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Echolplex syncing Resent-Message-ID: <"APUM9B.A.xJF.6PTOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/94 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 03:14:24 -0700 X-UIDL: aadbbdbdd80c5132a81967fa7d193ab1 >Kim, > >>the answer here is to use midi clock for syncing. It does work in the >>current shipping version, although the upgrade that is not yet shipping has >>made huge improvements in this area. > >Does this only work for loops that are already recorded, or can I use the >MIDI clock to create new loops that sync with the sequencer, as well? Yes, you can have the sequencer generate midi clock, and sync to that. You can set the length the loop will be in relation to the sequence tempo, so for instance you can make your loop equal 8 beats, 7 beats, 3 eighths, whatever. The echoplex, once it is synced, will stay locked to the sequencer and not drift. This works reasonably well in the current shipping software, and the not-yet-shipping upgrade has many improvements in this area. To do it: Set the sync parameter to "in" Make sure you have the echoplex in reset, and midi out from sequencer is in midi in of the 'plex. Make sure your sequencer is set to generate clocks. Start the sequencer. It will send midi clocks, which the echoplex will happily monitor. If you look at the display, you will see a little dot flash at the sync interval. This interval is determined by the 8ths/beat parameter, which basically tells the echoplex how many 8th notes will be in the basic loop cycle. Press record, the echoplex starts recording. (If you are using the quantize function, its a bit different. I'll explain below) You have to wait until after the clock starts to start record. Otherwise the echoplex doesn't know its supposed to be syncing to something. Play stuff, press record again. The echoplex will continue recording until the loop is the appropriate length, end the recording automatically, and start looping. Your loop should be in time with your sequence. If you use the quantize function, which basically quantizes the timing of your echoplex actions, the echoplex will wait until the next sync interval to start its recording. This way your loops are not only the proper length, but the beginning point of the loop is right at the beginning of the measure in the sequence. Hopefully that makes some sense. (its quarter to 3am, I'm a tad groggy...) Play around with it, the practical experience will make it more obvious. I use this technique for live type playing a lot, to sync my loops to drum machines. One thing that is fun to experiment with is to use 8ths/beat to set the meter of your loops to be different from the meter of the sequence. So you can get 3 verses 4, say. One thing I've had a lot of fun with is to take a two bar drum machine groove and record it into an echoplex that is synced to it, with the echoplex's 8ths/beat set to 15, for example. So I record 15 of the 16 eighths in the drum pattern, and loop that along with the original. With the loop shifting one eighth each time through, the simple little drum machine suddenly sounds remarkably creative! Another thing to try is syncing multiple echoplexes together with different 8ths/beat, to get fripp-like multi loops going where the different loops are related by some ratio. Using the echoplex to generate midi clocks and control a sequencer is also really fun. Basically, set things up the reverse of before. Sync=out, midi out of echoplex to midi in of sequencer. Hit record, play your thing, hit record again. The echoplex will then generate midi clock and send a start-song message to the sequencer. The sequencer should then start, in time with the thing you just played. I also do this with drum machines, so the pattern comes in at the tempo I just played. I showed Neal Schon how to do this and he went into his studio and riffed away with his rhythm machine 8 hours a day, every day, for months. (writing material for the upcoming Journey album that I'm sure you're all dying to get ;-) ) Its real fun to have the sequence kick in with you like that. Its just like having a real band, except they actually listen to the tempo you set and don't mind if you make them start over 300 times while you refine your guitar riffs. Hope this gives you all something to occupy yourselves with....I'll probably put stuff like this up on the web page when I get to it. Then we can have diagrams and audio clips and such too. And feel free to share your favorite techniques, I'm sure many of you have thought up tricks that never occured to me.... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Fri Sep 13 03:41:37 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 13 03:15:09 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1VH9-0000XD-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 03:15:07 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1VHl-0005cK-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 03:15:45 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 03:13:42 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Echolplex problems Resent-Message-ID: <"9s49p.A.SRF.NRTOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/95 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 03:15:45 -0700 X-UIDL: 8f0c830e375d68af29ea510be0a9f227 >>Is one or all of your units pretty old? I think the first 50-100 were >>really prone to this. New ones are less so. Shortly before I quit g-wiz I >>came up with a design improvement that totally solves these problems. I'm >>pretty sure it is not part of the current fab. Its a bit more complicated >>than a resistor swap, but I'd be happy to explain it. Just promise you >>won't all electrocute yourselves! > >Yes, the units were purchased soon after they came out. Please send the >procedure when you get a chance. Oberheim has my units right now, anyways, >so there's no hurry...Thanks! > >- Chris > >--------------------------------------- >Chris Chovit >cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov >--------------------------------------- I think I will put up an Echoplex hardware hacking guide on the web page. There are a bunch of mods you can do, most of which are pretty easy. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Fri Sep 13 03:56:41 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 13 03:39:28 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1Veh-0004ev-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 03:39:27 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1VhW-00009j-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 03:42:22 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 03:40:28 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Hello and such Resent-Message-ID: <"TqmnZ.A.GJ.LqTOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/96 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 03:42:22 -0700 X-UIDL: 7477d47a96435cb2ebc87e688c978aa7 >>MacLoop! Matthias has been evangalizing for this idea for ages. Somebody >>definitely has to do it. A protools plug in and a standalone would be my >>choice. > >Way too expensive. I've been thinking more along the lines of Deck or >Logic Audio. The machines are getting fast enough that one doesn't >necessarily need to drop $10k on ProTools hardware. If people balk at >$900 for an Echoplex, do you think they're gonna drop $15k for a >machine and ProTools?!? > >BTW, Bias Peak on the Mac has some "automatically loop this think I'm >recording" features built in. It's a shame that they only support two >stereo tracks. My thinking for a digi plug-in is that there is already a large installed base, and there are plenty of other tools that can work well in conjuction with a looping tool. And by "standalone", I meant something like Deck, same as you're talking about. A cheap software app that takes advantage of the audio and processing in the pc. Problem with that, though, is you only have a stereo input so you can't record multiple sources into different loops at once. And you have a crappy multimedia codec digitizing the audio. The other problem is that most sound cards don't let you record and play back at the same time. Using a pc/mac for looping is really something that would only apply to studio use, though. Not many people are willing to lug their computer to rehearsals, gigs and on tours. Its a big risk, and expensive to do it safely. One thing that concerns me, design wise, is the real-time performance of the mac/pc while its handling lots of I/O, audio processing, and disk accesses. The reaction time is critical in looping, and desktop os's are not designed for this. This is a key reason why I'm much more interested in designing the ultimate looper as rack gear specifically designed for these tasks. Then you have much more control over the real time performance, and can optimize busses for good audio/dsp performance. And you can include the appropriate I/O to meet looping needs, have very good quality audio, professional jacks, a rugged chassis, etc. Also, it would be a simple matter to include networking interfaces to hook it up to your pc for expanded control interfaces. I think this can be done at a reasonable cost, easily in line with what other quality audio processors cost. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Fri Sep 13 10:11:16 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 13 03:55:17 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1Vu0-0007P8-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 03:55:16 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1Vwe-0001T3-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 03:58:00 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 03:56:04 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@slip.net From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Echoplex/Jamman Resent-Message-ID: <"5HWIPB.A.AYB.24TOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/97 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 03:58:00 -0700 X-UIDL: aaa161d5b03f5478f080f191e6b5df99 >By the way, perhaps you could tell me, you fortunate guys, before I spend my >BIG bucks on it, what differences between the two units, what I can do >xith one, not with the others, what kind of memory they do accept to >increase their delay time, if I can do it myself, if you can add one >memory chip at a time (some electronic units accept only changes by pairs) Well, this will all be on the web page some day. In the mean time I dug up some old mail I sent to someone a while back. Since several people have asked for more info on the echoplex, this will hopefully help: ****************************************************** The Echoplex is a lot of fun and useful in many different situations. I'm kind of amazed at the diversity of musicians that use it. Everything from hip-hop dj's to bluegrass guitarists to brazilian percussionists to acoustic soloists to jazz flute players! Here is some info I sent to someone else, hopefully it helps you too: the best bet is to call Oberheim directly and ask for one, (brochure) hopefully they will actually send it. They are at: Oberheim 732 Kevin Ct. Oakland, CA 94633 510-635-9633 Also, reviews of the Echoplex appeared in Keyboard (7/95), Guitar Player (9/95), and Electronic Musician (8/95). The keyboard and guitar player ones are most informative, but they are all very good. Amazingly enough, there is a web page for it buried within the Gibson site: http://www.gibson.net/products/oberheim/ob2.html Possibly even more helpful would be to call Gibson's coustomer service dept. at 1-800-4-GIBSON. Ask for Alan Green, he knows the most about it there. He might be able to help you find a store in your area that has one in stock. One way to try it out is to buy it from someplace that offers a money-back guarantee if you are not completely satisfied. I think a lot of the mail order places do that. A good one to try is Bananas at Large, 415-457-7600. They often have echoplexes in stock. And another cut and paste: I think you should try out the Oberheim Echoplex Digital Pro. (Now I should tell you that I'm extremely biased about this because I was one of the people who designed it!) Pesonally, I'm fanatical about looping, as are the other people involved in designing this, and we designed the thing from the ground up to meet our needs. I've used the jamman and the boomerang, and I think they both have a lot of work to do to catch up with us. If you like, I'd be happy to tell you all about it. My phone number is below. Here are some features real quick: - well designed, performance-oriented user interface - optional foot controller for the rack unit - expandable up to 200secs of loop time - infinite overdub - very cool reverse loop effects - "multiply" function to create long loops over multiple reptitions of a shorter loop - Multiple undo's for removing overdubs from a loop - Up to 9 independant loops available at once - fully midi controllable - sync functions for working with external time sources (or generating clocks) - etc., etc., etc., Robert Fripp, Adrian Belew, David Torn, and many, many others are using the Echoplex. >Where can I get one? Call Oberheim for a dealer near you. Many of the mail order places carry it as well. >How much will it hurt my pocketbook? I'm not quite sure of the list price. $800 I think, but you should check with Oberheim or your dealer. Street price should be significantly lower, as always. >How much memory does it come with as shipped from the factory? Two factory configurations: 1Mb, for 12.5 seconds, or 4MB for 50 seconds. >How much can it be expanded to? Memory is expandable to 200 seconds with standard 30-pin simms. If you plan to expand it, buy the 12.5 second version and get the memory for it yourself. (its cheaper that way) >Are there any spec-sheets online anywhere? http://www.gibson.net/products/oberheim/ob2.html >Is there a faboo foot controller available or included? yes, there is a foot controller available. It also responds to midi control >Is it shipping? yes, for over a year now! We are currently finishing up a software upgrade which adds several new features and improves others. look for that too... ********************************** y'all happy now? kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Fri Sep 13 10:11:18 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 13 05:15:13 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1X9N-0003Ts-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 05:15:13 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1X90-0004XL-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 05:14:50 -0700 Date: 13 Sep 96 08:12:30 EDT From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: Satan's Wallwarts and so much more Message-ID: <960913121230_74074.1316_GHQ70-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"hYHAsB.A.WQE.4AVOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/98 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 05:14:50 -0700 X-UIDL: 9627af0fa4b58c6f85dcf3b050558ffd Hey gang, I'm glad there's so much going on here in loop land, and I'd like to add my coupla cents worth. OK, maybe a dollar. First, thanks Kim for clarifying the origins of the wallwart. I was fairly certain that it was Satan (not a bad guy, really. He's just misunderstood...) but now I have good authority on it. And, yes, JamMan and Vortex both use the beasts. The ultimate design is what's in the PCM 80, ie a switching transformer that simply needs the right plug. Works great, and apparently all future Lex products will use it. (Note that I said apparently...) Now, about this Vortex thingy: Thanks to Dave for the very kind review. A couple of notes about what it can do: It's basically a modulating delay. So you've got chorusing, flanging, tremolo, rotary speaker-ish stuff, and that sort of thing. (Gerneric useful stuff with odd names like Choir, Shimmer, Aerosol, Orbits) But the hook is, as Dave noted, they're dynamic--they respond to your playing. (or not, if you so choose) Then you have a whole host of ridiculously weird effectoids. Bleen, Fractal, et al. These things do ring modulaty or looping echoes with death flange that mutates into the oddest sorts of things. Useful on a daily basis? You decide. On my first record (Three if by Air) this kind of oddity is most clearly audible on the last cut where an e-bow driven guitar is sent through a very odd pitch shift thing on the LXP-15 (Evil 3rds in the V2 software, my program) then sent through this bizzaro Vortex thing that I created from Fractal and Bleen. The sound will rip your head off in headphones. Way twisted. The beauty of Vortex is how easily you make the sounds your own. The morphing thing is really happening, and some of the halfway points are really fun. There's a bunch of oddities on my next record (due in Fuebruary, will be mixed by Mr. Torn) from the Vortex beast. OK, now the Jamoisity: I'm now using two JamMen. One in front of effectoids, one in back of effectoids. Generally, the front Jamperson is used as long echo, wherin I'll play with the feedback control throughout the piece, sometimes longer, sometimes shorter, depending on where I'm going. The second Jamperson is the looper, where I'll be able to loop the effected stuff, and go beserk on top of it. There are several pieces on the new record where this stuff will be in evidence. Mostly, though it allows quite a bit of freedom. My single biggest gripe with the JamMan is that you can't loop from within the Echo mode. A simple request, but it didn't get done. So, this allows me to do something like it. You can go to 100% feedback, but everything you play gets added in... One other thing about storage of loops and ideas: I ALWAYS have mics set up in front of my amps, which can go to a DAT or my DA 88. Anytime something happens that I like, I record a couple of minutes of it, then if I want it again, I can load it back in. Not perfect, but then again perfection isn't what I seek within my music. I'm looking for vibes and space, and this works (perfectly) for that. If nothing else, when you've got it recorded, you can listen to it, and you should be able to recreate it. Oh yeah, the memory on JamMan is PC Zip chips, and *don't* get 'em from Lexicon. They bought in on very unfavorable terms and are stuck with 'em. But if you call the marketing dept (as opposed to Customer Service who are in posession of the big ticket items), they'll give you some 800 #s where you can find it cheaper. Not cheap, unfortunately. (If they give you difficulty, let me know. I still have some influence. Not much, but some...) OK? Cool. Keep looping. Jon Durant (ex Lex, now Alchemist) From ???@??? Fri Sep 13 10:12:02 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 13 09:55:40 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1bWm-0002JA-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 09:55:40 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1bFW-00025Z-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 09:37:51 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199609130356.UAA20442@pure.pure.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 08:54:54 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: Hello and such Resent-Message-ID: <"2SngnD.A.O9B.c3YOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/108 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 09:37:51 -0700 X-UIDL: 06c3ef3dcded360b5e8e541369e1852c > >To start out a track, tap out a few beats on a footswitch. The system >syncs, and shows a graphical metronome. Record the first track, >tapping another switch for the beginning and end of the loop. You >could immediately start recording the next loop (or wait 'till the >next go-around), and could specify the length of the loop relative to >the first one with a couple switches, by specifying a rational ratio >between the lengths. Imagine two "increase the factional part" >switches. > >numerator >--------- >denominator > >1 tap gives you a second loop 1/2 or 2/1 as long, three taps gives you >2/3 or 3/2, etc. You could easily make loops that are 7/8 as long, or >whaever, to get really interesting repeating patterns >(cf. "Discipline"). I have been doing something like this using multiple echolplexes, connected via the brother sync. I use one echoplex to create a "fundamental unit" loop. Then, I create loops on additional echoplexes, which are a multiple of this fundamental unit. Finally, I can go back to the original unit and mulitply its length too. Using four echoplexes, for example, I can have them repeating every 4, 5, 6, and 7 beats, respectively. This makes for some great entertwining melodies, which don't sound repetitious -- they sound like they are forever changing. Obviously, having multiple echoplexes can be costly...Currently my brother and I each have 2 units, so between us, we use 4 units. This also gives us the capability of separating them in space -- we are currently using a quadrophonic setup, with each looper given its own channel, adding a "spatial dimension" to the music. Another trick I like, is to run a loop through an effect, like a slap back delay, and sending this into another looper (and another channel). This makes for some "mind-tweaking" sounds. I am interested to know if anyone is using Opcode MAX to create custom interfaces with the echoplex. If This is something that I would like to undertake, but I would like to know if anyone as already doing this. If not, please send suggestions for interface capabilities. My idea is to use an ART X-15 footpedal to control multiple echoplexes. I'm still in the brainstorming mode, so suggestions are welcome! - Chris P.S. In a previous message, I had referred to the Setve Reich album as "Music for 16 Musicians" -- Sorry for leaving two musicans out....the correct title is "Music for 18 musicians". --------------------------------------- Chris Chovit cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov --------------------------------------- From ???@??? Fri Sep 13 10:12:05 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 13 09:55:50 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1bWv-0002JA-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 09:55:49 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1arm-0001LD-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 09:13:18 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 09:12:42 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: Technohoploops? Resent-Message-ID: <"C1rYF.A.hQB.cgYOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/106 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 09:13:18 -0700 X-UIDL: ca5286a9d6be69cab73eda04e2a2a006 >(it is possible to connect an infinite number of pedal boards or single >overdub pedals to the ECHOPLEX, so you can operate it from various points >on the stage!) I have been using one footpedal to control multiple echoplexes, using an A/B box (or an A/B/C box for three units). I imagine that this would work just as well to have multiple footpedals control one echoplex. THe important thing is that the footpedals are not in the circuit AT THE SAME TIME. AS you probably know, the footpedal works as a resistor in the circuit, with different resistances corresponding to the different footpedal functions, so I don't think you can have multiple footpedals connected at the same time, without screwing up the resistances. Your idea would be great, using multiple echoplexes, all "brother synced" together! In this case, any one of them could be used to start the first loop. Then, you could jump around stage, adding loops which would be synced to the "master". - Chris --------------------------------------- Chris Chovit cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov --------------------------------------- From ???@??? Fri Sep 13 10:12:04 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 13 09:55:44 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1bWo-0002JA-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 09:55:42 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1bFM-00024q-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 09:37:40 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 09:22:45 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: Hello and such Resent-Message-ID: <"GHC91B.A.s8B.S3YOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/107 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 09:37:40 -0700 X-UIDL: 4e4882299a3fc12f42abedc6b2040785 I'm not sure this message was sent correctly...I'll try it again. Sorry if its a repeat.... > >To start out a track, tap out a few beats on a footswitch. The system >syncs, and shows a graphical metronome. Record the first track, >tapping another switch for the beginning and end of the loop. You >could immediately start recording the next loop (or wait 'till the >next go-around), and could specify the length of the loop relative to >the first one with a couple switches, by specifying a rational ratio >between the lengths. Imagine two "increase the factional part" >switches. > >numerator >--------- >denominator > >1 tap gives you a second loop 1/2 or 2/1 as long, three taps gives you >2/3 or 3/2, etc. You could easily make loops that are 7/8 as long, or >whaever, to get really interesting repeating patterns >(cf. "Discipline"). I have been doing something like this using multiple echolplexes, connected via the brother sync. I use one echoplex to create a "fundamental unit" loop. Then, I create loops on additional echoplexes, which are a multiple of this fundamental unit. Finally, I can go back to the original unit and mulitply its length too. Using four echoplexes, for example, I can have them repeating every 4, 5, 6, and 7 beats, respectively. This makes for some great entertwining melodies, which don't sound repetitious -- they sound like they are forever changing. Obviously, having multiple echoplexes can be costly...Currently my brother and I each have 2 units, so between us, we use 4 units. This also gives us the capability of separating them in space -- we are currently using a quadrophonic setup, with each looper given its own channel, adding a "spatial dimension" to the music. Another trick I like, is to run a loop through an effect, like a slap back delay, and sending this into another looper (and another channel). This makes for some "mind-tweaking" sounds. I am interested to know if anyone is using Opcode MAX to create custom interfaces with the echoplex. If This is something that I would like to undertake, but I would like to know if anyone as already doing this. If not, please send suggestions for interface capabilities. My idea is to use an ART X-15 footpedal to control multiple echoplexes. I'm still in the brainstorming mode, so suggestions are welcome! - Chris P.S. In a previous message, I had referred to the Setve Reich album as "Music for 16 Musicians" -- Sorry for leaving two musicans out....the correct title is "Music for 18 musicians". --------------------------------------- Chris Chovit cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov --------------------------------------- From ???@??? Fri Sep 13 10:11:24 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 13 06:53:45 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1Ygj-0004AN-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 06:53:45 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1Yh9-0005xL-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 06:54:11 -0700 Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 09:52:53 -0400 From: "S. Patrick Hickey" Message-Id: <199609131352.JAA20382@nielsenmedia.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: I'm gonna get some Resent-Message-ID: <"_VsGvB.A.tlF.DeWOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/99 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 06:54:11 -0700 X-UIDL: a9e68a25ea1d384fc7000785574e230d JamMan uses Wall Warts (tm). > In my long (it appears so) quest for unexpensive ways to get a jamman, a > vortex or an echoplex, I suddelly wonder... > In france the current is 220 V at 50 hz. > Does these units have wall warts (in that case, i just swap the wall > wart, it is easy) or do they have internal current transformation (in > that case, I would have to open the machine, and that is less easy for > me, not to mention that I fear having to do such things...) > Pleaaaaassse tell me > Olivier From ???@??? Fri Sep 13 10:11:26 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 13 06:54:57 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1Yhs-0004CV-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 06:54:56 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1Yk6-00060h-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 06:57:14 -0700 Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 09:55:06 -0400 From: "S. Patrick Hickey" Message-Id: <199609131355.JAA20529@nielsenmedia.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: I'm gonna get some Resent-Message-ID: <"MDQ40B.A.9oF.4gWOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/100 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 73311.213@compuserve.com, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 06:57:14 -0700 X-UIDL: 078d2f4b84f9145decf76076efc76601 Yes, but wall warts locate the problem of transformer noise *far* away from the precious signals. So it simplifies design. Pat ***SPH brzrkr@nielsenmedia.com From ???@??? Fri Sep 13 10:11:30 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 13 07:08:33 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1Yv2-0004Xd-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 07:08:32 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1Yxj-0006IU-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 07:11:19 -0700 Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 10:15:05 -0400 From: cwb@platinum.com (Clark Battle) Message-Id: <199609131415.KAA12999@octopus.ab.platinum.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Moo. X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"LUMsoB.A.K6F.GuWOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/101 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 07:11:19 -0700 X-UIDL: 1eea22bcb071434f8635749f7b5507ad Here's one we seem to have forgotten: Bill Frisell. Bill has used short spontaneous loops as ambiance in a live setting for years. I believe he uses a custom device with 16 seconds of infinite delay. During a piece he samples a bit of something, speeds it up, slows it down, and mangles it. Then, he'll fade in the loop at some opportune time in the performance. There is plenty of this on his album _Power Tools_. He shares that drunken, warped sound with Torn but in a different way. Bill F. doesnt use a whammy bar, all his warping is done by bending the neck as he plays. He's got killer jazz chops too. From ???@??? Fri Sep 13 10:11:45 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 13 07:37:59 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1ZNV-0005F1-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 07:37:57 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1ZPz-0006qT-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 07:40:31 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 11:44:11 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Technohoploops? Resent-Message-ID: <"Kp3KwB.A.BbG.eJXOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/102 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 07:40:31 -0700 X-UIDL: c8115faece514343651eba6765db82e2 >There are >other genres where looping is real prominent as well. Hip-hop, techno, >house, trip-hop, ambient-techno, dub, etc have all developed looping in >interesting ways, and now those influences are pretty much common place in >pop music. I am not really into this music yet, its hard to find in Brasil, and not very my taste, but I imagine that it has a lot of loopy caracter. Are there records out with such heavy looped rythms? Would this be a way to use real drums and percussion to combine the machine like steady rythm with the real punch of unacurate human hit drum? It would give a nice stage picture, too: imagine the drumer walking around stage, grabing an instrument every now and then, hitting it short and intense. In between he has time to relax or act, but the sound slowly grows to hell... (it is possible to connect an infinite number of pedal boards or single overdub pedals to the ECHOPLEX, so you can operate it from various points on the stage!) >In fact, one thing I'm really interested in discussing on this list is the >different approaches and techniques to looping found in different styles of >music. I think we can learn a lot from each other by sharing these >different approaches and reapplying them in our own music. This is exactly it. I hope we can exchange some sound samples about it, too. Matthias From ???@??? Fri Sep 13 10:11:46 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 13 07:41:52 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1ZRH-0005LI-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 07:41:51 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1ZQk-0006rp-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 07:41:18 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 11:44:25 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: MacLOOP (was: Hello and such) Resent-Message-ID: <"ZuwZNC.A.acG.NKXOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/103 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 07:41:18 -0700 X-UIDL: 0f3ea6e794dceb786c6b0fd6063b4eef >> >I really like this idea. Once you take the hardware issues (digitizing, >> >user interface) out of it, it's just a matter of throwing CPU and RAM at >> >the problem until it goes away. >> >> MacLoop! Matthias has been evangalizing for this idea for ages. Somebody >> definitely has to do it. A protools plug in and a standalone would be my >> choice. Actually, after trying to stay analog forever, I bought my first computer (Mac cx) in '89 only because I saw an advert of the first MO disc and understood that this was the size and speed for music and that the HD recording had started and that I needed to do a looper on the computer. I applied as a Apple developper and Digidesign developper. I ended up developping the stand alone version first, mainly because the computers did not become adapted to stage. Independent LCD screens came around then but did not turn popular as I had expected. Why? >> >Performance interaction could occur via any MIDI device, >> >and new/clever functionality could be added at the software level. A gui >> >with a keyboard and mouse could be used, rather than the tiny knobs, >> >buttons and LCD screens that can fit on a 19" rack. Can anyone understand why under the zillion models of Apple, there is none made for the musician, who always was the most faithfull mac client? It would be very easy to do a 19" rack version with a LCD screen for stage and a ordinary monitor for home! All the musicians and studios and probably even some industries would want that model! >Actually, I'm a professional programmer, and I have a pretty good grasp >of numeric analysis programming and how audio works. My usual >environment is Unix, but I'm sure I could pick up Mac/Windows programming >easily enough if I tried. Ups, there might be some problems... >Yeah, I'm seriously considering buying a new Power Mac just to work on >this idea. What do y'all think? Would you be willing to use a personal >computer for a looping device? Do you HAVE a computer capable of this >sort of thing? All the necessary hardware is built into Power Macs and >most modern PCs. The whole thing could be sold as software, or even >given away. > >Let's think about this. What sort of features would we like to see? Well Dave, if you really do it, I will be very happy! - One thing would be a shareware version, that does the basic for everyone to play. Go ahead. - Another thing would be the soft version of the ECHOPLEX which I could help with soft modules for the functions. All that rounding and syncing is nothing easy! - The real thing would be a HD recording program which works with integrated loops, so we can record what we loop, loop what we record and edit the loops we recorded by relooping. This is definitally a comercial project that has to be done in colaboration with a enterprise that developped HD recording. >What about the user interface? A MIDI Pedal board with "volume" controller input for the FeedBack and maybe other parameters. There is a lot to do! Lets loop a bit first... Matthias From ???@??? Fri Sep 13 10:11:49 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 13 08:59:02 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1adx-0007HF-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 08:59:01 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1aEj-0000Cc-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 08:32:57 -0700 Message-Id: <199609131532.AA27806@internet-mail.ford.com> From: "Steven R. Murrell" To: "'Loop'" Subject: Fun Stuff Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 11:29:43 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"qNFWjC.A.FM.n6XOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/104 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 08:32:57 -0700 X-UIDL: 506eaaa924aec0feb279aaa4fbd76e38 Hey everybody, Just thought that I would share something that I have found to be interesting and fun. One thing that I like to do with my JamMan is layer loops that are in identical tempos but different time signatures. If done in a certain way, the resulting layered loop will be a rhythmically complex melody which repeats itself once every time through the loop. It helps immensely if you have the ability to record long loops (I have 32 second expansion). Example: Record first layer in 5/4 playing notes or chords on beats one and three and play this for exactly seven measures (35 beats). Then record a second layer in 7/4 playing notes or chords on beats one and three and play this for only five measures (again 35 beats). As the loop repeats, beats one and three are coincident with respect to both patterns, but as the loop continues the patterns diverge and then converge making for a very nice sound. I did this last week when a drummer friend and I were messing around at his house. I played this pattern using chords on my Stick (as opposed to single notes) and then played other synthy sounding stuff in real time above the loop. About ten minutes into this thing, his wife came into the studio. "This is scaring the hell out of me" she said. Try it, Steve Murrell - Indian Rosewood Grand Stick #1202 smurrell@ford.com From ???@??? Fri Sep 13 10:11:51 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 13 09:02:49 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1ahb-0007Op-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 09:02:47 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1aeB-0000uR-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 08:59:15 -0700 Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 10:58:22 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Hello and such In-Reply-To: <199609130356.UAA20442@pure.pure.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"7KzlFD.A.W2.KTYOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/105 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 08:59:15 -0700 X-UIDL: d618f6f56109b477ae480f14e225b4a2 On Thu, 12 Sep 1996, Ray Peck wrote: > I've been thinking about this since seeing DT last year in SF. I was > thinking that if I were to try this sort of thing myself (which I'm > far off from doing!), I'd want a Mac-based system that let me do > multiple tracks, each with different loop times, and to be able to > change them on the fly. > > Think of this sort of thing. Sorry if it doesn't make sense: it's > kinda hard to explain. I know EXACTLY what you're talking about; I want to do the same thing. The way I see it, this program should be able to run multiple loops simultaneously, and either mix them together or switch back and forth betwen them. If each loop is an independent entity from the mixer, then loop length is arbitrary. New loops could be created as copies of old loops, or as rational relations to other loops (1/3, 2x, etc), or with their own arbitrary length. > The system could also use spare time, if it has any, to do > pitch-to-sheet music conversion so you could *really* see what you > were doing. > Now THAT would be scary and difficult. :} > A PowerMac could do all this with no additional hardware (although you > might want a Digidesign AudioMedia card for better a/d d/a). Deck > will do 8 tracks off of the hard disk on the slowest PowerMac (my > 6100/60). Should be easy to do tons of tracks out of DRAM. The sound source should be irrelevant. It should be able to get sound off the stock Mac inputs, Digidesign, Turtle Beach, or Korg cards, or any standard-format sound files off the disk. It should also be able to save your loops in standard audio formats, as well as a custom format for the system (collections of loops, a set of performance notes attached, etc). > > Now. . . > > Would anyone buy it? > If I could afford it. :} Maybe I should sell my children. :P -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com */ -Charles Fort /* http://www.leepfrog.com/~dstagner */ From ???@??? Sat Sep 14 12:16:41 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 13 10:55:54 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1cT3-0003pS-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 10:55:53 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1bs0-0003D6-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 10:17:36 -0700 Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 12:17:02 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: MacLOOP In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"GQltJ.A.xAD.vcZOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/109 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 10:17:36 -0700 X-UIDL: f71e601421198e8e41c607927d82e186 On Fri, 13 Sep 1996, Matthias wrote: > Can anyone understand why under the zillion models of Apple, there is none > made for the musician, who always was the most faithfull mac client? > It would be very easy to do a 19" rack version with a LCD screen for stage > and a ordinary monitor for home! > All the musicians and studios and probably even some industries would want > that model! I definitely concur. I'm used to seeing PCs in industrial-strength rackmount cases, and it amazes me that the same isn't available for the Macintosh. Maybe one of the new clone makers will pursue this market. Reliable rackmount VGA monitors are available, as are robust pointing devices. All that really needs to change is the case. On the other hand, I don't play live. All I have is a home studio setup. I use a preamp with speaker emulation, and do all my monitoring through headphones or stereo speakers. In such an environment, using a desktop computer is much less of an issue, because it isn't subject to transportation abuse. > Well Dave, if you really do it, I will be very happy! > - One thing would be a shareware version, that does the basic for everyone > to play. Go ahead. Well, if I do this, I'll either give it away, or find some distribution channel to sell it. Those of you in the audio industry, do you think a major vendor might pick up something like this and redistribute it? I'm a programmer by nature, which is the logical complement of marketing. :} > - Another thing would be the soft version of the ECHOPLEX which I could > help with soft modules for the functions. All that rounding and syncing is > nothing easy! How comfortable with C++ are you? :} Yeah, the hard part is going to be dealing with the musical manipulation of the sounds. Digital emulation of analog concepts is always a lot uglier than it looks. > - The real thing would be a HD recording program which works with > integrated loops, so we can record what we loop, loop what we record and > edit the loops we recorded by relooping. This is definitally a comercial > project that has to be done in colaboration with a enterprise that > developped HD recording. Now I'm starting to think. Why would it have to be done in collaboration with an existing company? It seems to me that the existing companies have been practically the enemies of our musical needs... the marketing problems of the Echoplex and Vortex are cases in point. Or maybe the reality is that we're such a tiny subculture that there simply isn't a real market for such tools. :/ But what I'm talking about here is a purely software project. I don't want to build new hardware; I want to take advantage of existing hardware to get it to do what I want. This flies in the face of the electronic music equipment industry. It's all about selling you another rack device. If I want to give myself headaches arguing with managers and marketers that the developers and users know what to build better than they do, I'll just go to work. If I could build something like this and then convince Digidesign or Lexicon or whomever to distribute it for me and pay me royalties, all well and good. But mostly, I'm doing this so I can make the music that's in my head, struggling to get out. :} > >What about the user interface? > > A MIDI Pedal board with "volume" controller input for the FeedBack and > maybe other parameters. Controllers should be virtual and arbitrary. There are basically two classes of controllers - on/off switches and continuous controllers. Any given software function should need one or the other. Users should be able to arbitrarily assign controllers to functions. For example, you might want to control feedback via a footpedal, or via an onscreen fader controlled by the mouse. That's the problem with dedicated hardware... it ties you to specific input devices and limits your controls. All the physical controllers we need... expression pedals, footswitches, faders... are available on the open market from specialized vendors, with nothing more than a MIDI port needed to use them. So why invest effort reinventing the wheel, at least at this point? > There is a lot to do! > Lets loop a bit first... > > Matthias An interesting aside... do you think of your looping device(s) as an effect, or as an instrument? For me, the JamMan and Vortex are instruments in and of themselves, not just processing for my guitar. They're just instruments that need an outside tone source. -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com */ -Charles Fort /* http://www.leepfrog.com/~dstagner */ From ???@??? Sat Sep 14 12:17:07 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 13 15:49:52 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1h3X-0005VP-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:49:51 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1h4f-00058y-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:51:01 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: ToddM@LaserMaster.Com Organization: LaserMaster Corporation Date: 13 Sep 1996 17:49:45CST6CDT Subject: Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail/Mac v2.0 Message-ID: <10AF44D3330@laserm.lmt.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"bwAsjB.A.50E.TVeOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/113 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:51:01 -0700 X-UIDL: 5289985c920f8f2bce63d48cda74aaa7 Matthias: >>By the way, did I tell you that I store loops on VHS Hi-Fi videocassettes >> because DATs are a bit steep for me? It works, too. You just need a decent >> VCR without the typical compression most of them have (i.e. you get what you >> pay for, the better ones are pretty crystalline sounding...) > I did that for a while, before DAT became available, but after a few months > I heard a noise of the head frequency on the tapes, getting stronger. Very odd - I've never heard this before. I actually also use the tapes at parties. I'll do a tape for a theme (i.e. 8 hours of christmas music that never repeats, 8 hours of scary music for halloween, 8 hours of space music for those nights when nothing else is happening). What about eight hours of loops? Wow, set it to self-regenerate and just have a hypnotic trance session (like Michael Hoenig's "Departure from the Northern Wasteland", that's another good hypnotic one with Lutz Ulbricht of Ashra and Agitation Free fame (as well as Micky Duwe from the latter)). > Maybe I had a bad machine? Or it is not serious really? I'm thinking that's what's happening here, either that or you overdrove the signal so that it distorted in some way or maybe the tape wasn't up to it. You have to use high quality tapes. I'd get your deck checked out. From ???@??? Sat Sep 14 12:16:40 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 13 10:55:47 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1cSw-0003pE-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 10:55:46 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1c1w-0003Vb-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 10:27:52 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 10:25:55 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: I'm gonna get some Resent-Message-ID: <"uTbPSB.A.eSD.SmZOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/110 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 10:27:52 -0700 X-UIDL: 3f83a01a51604618bbbf8df47aa06e78 >Yes, but wall warts locate the problem of transformer noise *far* >away from the precious signals. So it simplifies design. > >Pat ***SPH >brzrkr@nielsenmedia.com You mean, It simplifies design for people who aren't very good at it. :-) It also makes it easier to deal with regulatory agencies, since the wall wart manufacturer has the responsibility to pass all the requirements for electrical safety. And its usually cheaper than doing your own supply. And it causes great pain and suffering throughout the land..... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sat Sep 14 12:16:38 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 13 10:55:43 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1cSt-0003pE-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 10:55:43 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1c4o-0003cL-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 10:30:50 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 10:29:00 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Technohoploops? Resent-Message-ID: <"QCQOMD.A.OZD.JpZOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/111 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 10:30:50 -0700 X-UIDL: b1f71ccd838044afd09ea6f92c3e7c80 >>(it is possible to connect an infinite number of pedal boards or single >>overdub pedals to the ECHOPLEX, so you can operate it from various points >>on the stage!) > >I have been using one footpedal to control multiple echoplexes, using an >A/B box (or an A/B/C box for three units). I imagine that this would work >just as well to have multiple footpedals control one echoplex. THe >important thing is that the footpedals are not in the circuit AT THE SAME >TIME. AS you probably know, the footpedal works as a resistor in the >circuit, with different resistances corresponding to the different >footpedal functions, so I don't think you can have multiple footpedals >connected at the same time, without screwing up the resistances. You can have multiple foot switches hooked up, just so long as you don't press multiples switches at the same time. >Your idea would be great, using multiple echoplexes, all "brother synced" >together! In this case, any one of them could be used to start the first >loop. Then, you could jump around stage, adding loops which would be >synced to the "master". > >- Chris Yeah, that's the idea! A big point of the BrotherSync in the echoplex is to do just this, hopefully more people will give it a try! kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sat Sep 14 12:17:04 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 13 15:06:44 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1gNm-0003vQ-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:06:42 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1gKN-0003jX-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:03:11 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 19:06:40 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: VHS HiFi Resent-Message-ID: <"k5oqgB.A.GgD.eodOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/112 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:03:11 -0700 X-UIDL: d4213f388d119f246a1fa9593826275e Todd Madson wrote: >By the way, did I tell you that I store loops on VHS Hi-Fi videocassettes >because >DATs are a bit steep for me? It works, too. You just need a decent VCR >without the >typical compression most of them have (i.e. you get what you pay for, the >better >ones are pretty crystalline sounding...) I did that for a while, before DAT became available, but after a few months I heard a noise of the head frequency on the tapes, getting stronger. Maybe I had a bad machine? Or it is not serious really? Matthias From ???@??? Sat Sep 14 12:17:18 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 13 15:55:09 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1h8a-0005mt-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:55:04 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1hB3-0005LK-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:57:37 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 19:06:45 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: A BAND of loopers! Resent-Message-ID: <"q7snbB.A.0AF.gbeOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/114 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:57:37 -0700 X-UIDL: 5937f372b8a16bc473a6506e47bcd913 studio seventeen productions wrote: >I recorded and performed for >five years creating live in-the-moment loops, Bryan looping drum machine and >synth with a JamMan and a 16-second delay and myself on energy bow and >guitar & synth with the setup noted above. > >A BAND of loopers as it were! Gee, what an old dream! I never really managed. How did you sync the stuff? Did you use miked instruments, too? Matthias From ???@??? Sat Sep 14 12:17:19 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 13 15:55:47 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1h9G-0005p8-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:55:46 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1hBD-0005Lu-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:57:47 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 19:06:49 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: techniques and tricks Resent-Message-ID: <"FENOh.A.cBF.qbeOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/115 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:57:48 -0700 X-UIDL: d47ead42271655bb835f10d3c53c4629 >I also want to do a section of my favorite echoplex techniques >and tricks. Most people who own them have only touched the surface of what >they are capable of. Usually a few examples of the interesting techniques >possible with the deeper functions really opens the creative floodgates. Yep, the most interesting for my taste, because it prevents from really copying the "stars", but gives new touches for each to find better HIS thing, which brings more for the player and for the listeners. How about posting the "playing hints" chapter of the LOOP delay manual? Someone could improve the language maybe... You have that? Matthias From ???@??? Sat Sep 14 12:17:22 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 13 15:57:27 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1hAq-0005sY-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:57:25 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1hBy-0005Ou-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:58:34 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 19:06:53 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Unidentified subject! Resent-Message-ID: <"Dc-u7D.A.MDF.CceOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/118 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:58:34 -0700 X-UIDL: 117e9c6fa7c9b4e8cfcdc63916476476 >At first, I was upset that I couldn't "edit" >or "save" my loop with the jam man -- but I have found that this has freed >me up: I'm not concerned about getting it "just right." I just play! I >have had a lot of fun with this approach, especially when there is no-one >around to jam with. That was very much the intention of the LOOP delay: The more you give away (by switching it of), the more you receive next time (by inspiration). >However, I've also created some loops, that I enjoyed >so much, it was rather painful to erase. Put them on tape and listen to them. You learn without noticing. >I am interested in learning some of the techniques people are using to >save, and possibly edit loops, after the fact. I have a Macintosh -- are >there some good (and inexpensive) digital editors out there for the Mac? I use DECK by MakroMedia (OSC, really). There are a lot of bugs in it, but you can do nice cross fades and its very cheap compared to its complexity. Matthias From ???@??? Sat Sep 14 12:17:24 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 13 15:57:28 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1hAs-0005sk-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:57:26 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1hBk-0005O4-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:58:20 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 19:06:58 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Essential loop recordings Resent-Message-ID: <"7Y4N-C.A.ADF._beOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/117 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:58:20 -0700 X-UIDL: f94e8eb70534341430703ce48c2bdf55 Kevin Holm-Hudson wrote: >Is there room on this list for looping not supported by technology? I'm >thinking for example of Erik Satie's _Vexations_ (a slow piano phrase >repeated 840 times--taking some 17 hours; I participated in a group >performance of this in the early 80s) and Terry Riley's seminal _In C_, >which certainly involves looping although manually played. Shure! I think the crystalization point is not technology, but REPETITIVE HAPPENINGS How we do them and what they do to us - including consideration of what goes on in the brain and such. I proposed that LOOP GROOP in the first LOOP delay folder, but I did not know about the Internet then, and it took Kim to do it... >Glad to see this list is up and running so quickly! Its absolutely amazing Matthias From ???@??? Sat Sep 14 12:17:28 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 13 15:58:50 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1hCD-0005vq-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:58:49 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1hCS-0005Qv-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:59:04 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 19:07:04 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: FeedBack / Kids Resent-Message-ID: <"VmlAEC.A.nFF.pceOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/121 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:59:04 -0700 X-UIDL: 0606d328d93e3a7926a84c7bf9df81f5 Dave Stagner wrote: >Here's a technique I use with the JamMan to get a more flexible, >improvisational feel from it. When I first got it, I tended to use it to >start a loop, then punch in more layers. But what I found was that >things just got bigger and louder and bigger and louder. It had a very >one-way dynamic. Now, rather than using the looping functions, I usually >prefer to just use its delay function. There are 16 delay feedback >levels, controlled by the knob on the front. Turn the feedback up high >and start looping. At 16, you effectively have infinite repeat. As >things build, you can turn the feedback down and let a loop fade, then >turn it back up and add more to the loop while the older material floats >in the background. This makes for a much more dynamic and rewarding >looping improv, I think. VERY important, this discovery, at least for me looping started when I connected a volume pedal into the FeedBack loop of a Roland 3000 delay. That is why we spend about one third of the processor power in the Echoplex for the 256 step glitch free FeedBack control. So please connect a pedal to it! >I just have two problems now... first, I don't get to do nearly enough >looping. I don't have a studio space safe from my two toddler children, >and they like to play with knobs altogether too much. The only way I can >play is to go through my long setup process after the kids go to bed, and >tear it apart before they get up in the morning. Hang it all up to the ceiling and just connect the instrument and pedal at night! (well, I have no kids, just cats...) >Second, I'm primarily an acoustic guitarist, not electric. I don't play >electric much and I'm not really comfortable on it. Hopefully, I'll be >getting a new acoustic with a pickup soon, and I'll see how that works as >a tone source. I rather like the idea of sending the warm, woody sound >of an acoustic guitar through my effects and seeing what comes out! Its amazing how many of the loopers play accoustic guitar. Did you try with a microphone and headphones? From ???@??? Sat Sep 14 12:17:27 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 13 15:58:03 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1hBS-0005ti-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:58:02 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1hCK-0005QX-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:58:56 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 19:07:33 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Hello and such Resent-Message-ID: <"_xC9S.A.NFF.jceOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/120 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:58:56 -0700 X-UIDL: b7e6a9aa63c67b2a4bfb18e70853fc30 Kim, animated: >>MacLoop! Matthias has been evangalizing for this idea for ages. Somebody >>definitely has to do it. A protools plug in and a standalone would be my >>choice. then Ray Peck cooled down: >Way too expensive. I've been thinking more along the lines of Deck or >Logic Audio. The machines are getting fast enough that one doesn't >necessarily need to drop $10k on ProTools hardware. If people balk at >$900 for an Echoplex, do you think they're gonna drop $15k for a >machine and ProTools?!? > >BTW, Bias Peak on the Mac has some "automatically loop this think I'm >recording" features built in. It's a shame that they only support two >stereo tracks. Matthias warms up: The idea would be, that any looper could step into a professional studio and play with the features he is used to, only that the recording goes on a HD and with all layers separate so editing and mixing is possible. Without this, there never will be serious loop music CD products on the market! In other words, if there are enough of us coming out of the kitchen (someone mentioned something likely?), all studios will buy the Loop Plug In to serve us... Sure we need a cheaper version for everyone to fool around at home. How does that "automatically loop this think I'm recording" feature work? Sounds interesting! From ???@??? Sat Sep 14 12:17:21 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 13 15:57:11 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1hAb-0005s0-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:57:09 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1hBa-0005NS-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:58:10 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 19:07:47 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Unidentified subject! Resent-Message-ID: <"_iT5OB.A.iCF.5beOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/116 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:58:10 -0700 X-UIDL: ec937346b03a655beebf4b5c45b54004 Ray Peck said: >I have a recording, which I made myself, of Eno discussing "It's Gonna >Rain", and explaining that that's where he got the idea, which was >passed on to Fripp. What means "the idea" in this case? When I was about 8 years old, I "discovered" the capability of fathers tape machine to create echoes. I had a great shock, in fact, because it was an increasing one. But I did not create music on it, then. Like so many... I think its even hard to discover the step from the echo to the loop. I certainly was influenced a lot by Pink Floyd that used echo as rithmic base, and so was Eno, maybe... So your recording is very interesting. Would you mind to write down the dedicated part so we can post it? From ???@??? Sat Sep 14 12:17:25 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 13 15:57:59 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1hBO-0005ta-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:57:58 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1hCA-0005Pp-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:58:46 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 19:07:52 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Hello and such Resent-Message-ID: <"KJVwgD.A.NEF.UceOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/119 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:58:48 -0700 X-UIDL: 0a30d4761fe09fba68a37a85a2b72c3a Are you still under "Hello and such" ?? >One thing that concerns me, design wise, is the real-time performance of >the mac/pc while its handling lots of I/O, audio processing, and disk >accesses. The reaction time is critical in looping, and desktop os's are >not designed for this. True problem. No time to read a block first from the HD. >This is a key reason why I'm much more interested in designing the ultimate >looper as rack gear specifically designed for these tasks. Then you have >much more control over the real time performance, and can optimize busses >for good audio/dsp performance. And you can include the appropriate I/O to >meet looping needs, have very good quality audio, professional jacks, a >rugged chassis, etc. Also, it would be a simple matter to include >networking interfaces to hook it up to your pc for expanded control >interfaces. I think this can be done at a reasonable cost, easily in line >with what other quality audio processors cost. And a SCSI port to save the loops? From ???@??? Sat Sep 14 12:17:48 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 13 17:25:56 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1iYQ-0002Jd-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 17:25:50 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1huK-0006iQ-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 16:44:24 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 20:47:52 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Technohoploops? Resent-Message-ID: <"hf8jn.A.QTG.XHfOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/122 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 16:44:24 -0700 X-UIDL: b3c85a4211b31dc8acd873b6d93683e1 >>(it is possible to connect an infinite number of pedal boards or single >>overdub pedals to the ECHOPLEX, so you can operate it from various points >>on the stage!) > >I have been using one footpedal to control multiple echoplexes, using an >A/B box (or an A/B/C box for three units). I imagine that this would work >just as well to have multiple footpedals control one echoplex. THe >important thing is that the footpedals are not in the circuit AT THE SAME >TIME. AS you probably know, the footpedal works as a resistor in the >circuit, with different resistances corresponding to the different >footpedal functions, so I don't think you can have multiple footpedals >connected at the same time, without screwing up the resistances. Sisi, thats what I am saying: You CAN use the pedals directly in parallel, at the same time, because they are "open" when no switch is pressed. In fact, the front pannel keys and the foot pedal keys are in parallel, too. Even if you press two switches at the time, the software will hold it, as it does if you press two keys on the same pedal board (yes, that was a hard one to do: you can even hold Overdub and do Multiply-Record to correct loop time, and you are back in Overdub until you release it! Kim gave the idea, but I had to put it together %-/ ). Did you manage to control simultaneously two machines from one pedal board? I have done it, it takes an opertional amplifier. But its not acurate. Use MIDI. >Your idea would be great, using multiple echoplexes, all "brother synced" >together! In this case, any one of them could be used to start the first >loop. Then, you could jump around stage, adding loops which would be >synced to the "master". You are probably the one with the most Echoplexes in the world (I have two to make stereo sound and an old one for programming) - so show us what is possible ! In my vision of this stage, there was one machine, operated from several points to make the process visible - more interesting than switching on a drum machine program. The second machine for the second musician, at least... Fascinated Matthias From ???@??? Sat Sep 14 12:17:46 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 13 17:25:56 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1iYP-0002Jd-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 17:25:49 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1hvO-0006mP-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 16:45:30 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 20:47:58 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: multiple loops (was Re: Hello and such) Resent-Message-ID: <"rgCq7D.A.yWG.VIfOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/123 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 16:45:32 -0700 X-UIDL: afe29a4d72daa13ac0ae52d6252e8a32 Chris wrote: >I have been doing something like this using multiple echolplexes, connected >via the brother sync. I use one echoplex to create a "fundamental unit" >loop. Then, I create loops on additional echoplexes, which are a multiple >of this fundamental unit. Finally, I can go back to the original unit and >mulitply its length too. Using four echoplexes, for example, I can have >them repeating every 4, 5, 6, and 7 beats, respectively. This makes for >some great entertwining melodies, which don't sound repetitious -- they >sound like they are forever changing. I have done this with two loopers and liked it very much too. It reminded me of someone dancing on a ship that crosses the waves of another ship... >Another trick I like, is to run a loop >through an effect, like a slap back delay, and sending this into another >looper (and another channel). This makes for some "mind-tweaking" sounds. Did not understand this one. The other looper would run at the same loop time? or with such a "integer" relationship of different number of beats? Does it create a "stereo" effect, or what is the tweak about it? Thanks Matthias From ???@??? Sat Sep 14 12:17:50 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 13 17:30:27 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1icr-0002Yk-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 17:30:25 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1ieZ-0000Jp-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 17:32:11 -0700 Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 17:26:40 -0700 Message-Id: <199609140026.RAA23654@barley.adnc.com> X-Sender: ambient@mail.adnc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: studio seventeen productions Subject: Re: A BAND of loopers! Resent-Message-ID: <"nM3wyC.A.ET.J0fOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/124 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 17:32:11 -0700 X-UIDL: 3a3dbc7a9211a46cfd0e8ffdad5c2c20 At 07:06 PM 9/13/96 -0300, you wrote: MATHIAS NOTED THAT I SAID: >studio seventeen productions wrote: > >>I recorded and performed for >>five years creating live in-the-moment loops, Bryan looping drum machine and >>synth with a JamMan and a 16-second delay and myself on energy bow and >>guitar & synth with the setup noted above. >> >>A BAND of loopers as it were! > >Gee, what an old dream! I never really managed. >How did you sync the stuff? >Did you use miked instruments, too? > >Matthias > > MY REPLY: We made no attempt to sync technology wise. Five years of shared playing experience (we played for two years as an acoustic guitar duo working in the new standard tuning for guitar before we mutated into the electronic/ambient looping band BINDLESTIFF) and empathy did the trick. Most pieces started with one of us and the other could join in: however, at no time were our loops similar in any way, duration wise especially. It just WORKED. The best band I've ever been in, bar none (BINDLESTIFF). Generally, we never used miked instruments (except on some studio-ized overdubbed non-live stuff). Sometimes we started together, and prayed we'd stay in sync. Amazingly, in the main, we did. And if not, kill your loop and restart until you are...not too hard with experience. Our setups are completely different: Bryan prefers REVERBING AND EFFECTING HIS SOUNDS and THEN looping them; I prefer looping them and then "treating them" a la ENO. I've often created a loop, and then made five or ten or twenty different recordings of it using the Digitech TSR-24S processor for different rooms, reversals, etc. The fact that we sounded so different helped, yet we PLAYED "together" even though the setups differ wildly. Please check out some of the BINDLESTIFF tracks on our page (address below) this was a remarkable experience to say the least!!! Or email me for a free catalog. The work with Bindlestiff is some of the most important I've undertaken. It freed me of old standard tuning: it freed me from my perfectionistic overdub-it-till-it's dead habit...and now I create (and destroy) loops as Kim was describing...I've often killed loops that were so beautiful it was painful. But you KNOW you can do it better, later... IF NOT, you record them. Maybe processed several different ways... more on this later! thanks for listening dave at studio seventeen 1734516817345168173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168173451681734 516817345 lead me in with a count of seventeen... (Mr. Blint, Consequences/Godley & Creme) visit: http:www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html seventeen: the ambient music page From ???@??? Sat Sep 14 12:17:53 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 13 20:29:45 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1lQN-0000U1-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 20:29:43 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1lRF-0004PQ-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 20:30:37 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 20:30:27 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: multiple loops Resent-Message-ID: <"8zBvjD.A.vIE.bbiOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/125 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 20:30:37 -0700 X-UIDL: 2be22457e37f3f580f783d1cd526c952 I wrote: >>Another trick I like, is to run a loop >>through an effect, like a slap back delay, and sending this into another >>looper (and another channel). This makes for some "mind-tweaking" sounds. Matthias replied: >Did not understand this one. The other looper would run at the same loop >time? or with such a "integer" relationship of different number of beats? >Does it create a "stereo" effect, or what is the tweak about it? Yes, it creates a stereo effect (or quadrophonic....or octophonic...or..). I'm getting carried away, of course. Let me briefly describe my setup: I use a 4-buss mixer, which has 6 effects loops. All my instruments go into the mixer inputs. 4 of the effects loops are dedicated to 4 Echoplexes. The remaining two effects loops are used for traditional effect processors (TEP's). The outputs of the Echoplexes and the TEP's are all sent back into the mixer inputs, so they can again be sent through the effects loops. Typically, I send each echoplex out a separate buss, and send each channel of the two (stereo) TEP's out its own buss. So, with this setup, I can start with a very simple loop, and create a whole sound space from that single loop -- by effecting the loop, then looping that, then effecting that loop, then looping that.......etc. And, as you suggest, the new loops need not be the same time length, as the original. With enough processing, the new loops need not sound anything like the original! I have started with a drum beat, and used processing (delays, reverbs, harmonizers) to create rich textures! The "tweak" is the way I feel when I send a loop through a short delay (50-100 ms) or even a reverb, and send the effected signal through a separate channel -- ie. the dry signal comes from one side of the room, the dealyed or reverbed signal from the other side. Pink Floyd used this technique -- I think Jimi did too....of course, you don't need a looper to do this -- a TEP with separate outputs would do the trick. The quad setup is just icing, really....doing away with the linear signal flow is the important thing. I can effect the loops & loop the effects, indefintely. Is the looping device an instrument or an effect? Is looping a recording or a performance? It seems to me that the boundaries are dissolving........ - chris --------------------------------------- Chris Chovit cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov --------------------------------------- From ???@??? Sat Sep 14 12:17:55 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 13 21:12:18 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1m5Z-0001qE-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 21:12:17 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1m88-0005Ml-00; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 21:14:57 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 21:14:12 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: Technohoploops? Resent-Message-ID: <"Dzmb5.A.OCF.8EjOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/126 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 21:14:57 -0700 X-UIDL: 007217d484f153f3d0c25f31960a0e54 Matthias wrote: >Did you manage to control simultaneously two machines from one pedal board? >I have done it, it takes an opertional amplifier. But its not acurate. Use >MIDI. No, I haven't tried to control two machines simultaneously. I would like to create a mutiple-unit interface, using Opcode's MAX. I would like to build it in a modular fashion, so as to keep the interface flexible (ie. easy to change/upgrade). I imagine I will start creating basic functions (record, overdub, undo, etc.) which works on multiple units. Then, I can create function sequences -- [for example, one push of a button could start one unit looping, the next push of a button could both: end that loop and start a new one, etc. -- (the Jam Man has this "phrasing" cabability, but it is an "un-undo-able" overdub)] Another capability I would like to have is to be able to switch between loops (within one unit) on multiple units. For example, assume I have two loops in each of 4 units, and all 4 units are currently playing their respective loop #1's. Then, one push of a button could make (up to) all 4 units switch to their loop #2's -- on the beat! In this way, I could create different sections of a "song" (verse/chorus, a/b/c, etc) and be able to switch between them with one push of a button. My goal is to be able to create simple (James-Brown-like) arrangements -- on the fly -- and "orchestrate" them while jamming on top of them. I would appreciate any feedback on this, before I get started. If I am careful, I can create some MAX code that would be both flexible for me, and usable by others. >You are probably the one with the most Echoplexes in the world (I have two >to make stereo sound and an old one for programming) - so show us what is >possible ! With this forum, we can discover the possibilities together! Thanks to Kim for getting the ball rolling! - chris --------------------------------------- Chris Chovit cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov --------------------------------------- From ???@??? Sat Sep 14 12:18:18 1996 >From kflint Sat Sep 14 11:33:23 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v1zWs-0004VN-00; Sat, 14 Sep 1996 11:33:22 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v1zU1-0005sL-00; Sat, 14 Sep 1996 11:30:25 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 15:33:46 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: multiple loops Resent-Message-ID: <"0TgN3B.A.2gF.AnvOy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/127 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: hickeysp@nielsenmedia.com, rpeck@pureatria.com, sean@pureatria.com, kflint@chromatic.com, ambient@adnc.com, smurrell@ford.com, fabiok@newbridge.com, attix@apple.com, 74164.3703@CompuServe.COM, 74074.1316@compuserve.com, 100041.247@compuserve.com, dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com, JJavid@aol.com, SayAaahh@aol.com, Dtorn@aol.com, ibex@ix.netcom.com, cwb@platinum.com, ToddM@LaserMaster.Com, ejmd@erols.com, jcoker@interaccess.com, kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 11:30:25 -0700 X-UIDL: f790603452f3d1e3d617f903f8a5d012 Thank you Chris, for your description! I can kind of imagine the sound now, but we want to really hear it... >The quad setup is just icing, really....doing away with the linear signal >flow is the important thing. I can effect the loops & loop the effects, >indefintely. Is the looping device an instrument or an effect? Is looping >a recording or a performance? It seems to me that the boundaries are >dissolving........ This is a difficult question for all of us, and important when we explain what we use to play a whole orchestra live, in nearly real time (or for the manufacturers and stores: to explain it to customers). It is similar to an effect only in its mechanic and electronic structure. The musical function has nothing of an effect, since it does not alter sound. I call it a RAM recorder, too. Spontaneous sound memory. Sound mirror. But none of the expressions so far is explaining what it does to whom does not know it. Any suggestions? From ???@??? Sun Sep 15 03:04:08 1996 >From kflint Sun Sep 15 02:59:48 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v2DzO-0002Dt-00; Sun, 15 Sep 1996 02:59:46 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v2E3E-0004oh-00; Sun, 15 Sep 1996 03:03:44 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 03:01:22 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Technohoploops? Resent-Message-ID: <"QWoR2B.A.7fE.kR9Oy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/128 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 03:03:44 -0700 X-UIDL: 49c199276a9ff336db5a7b9d92e4b05e Chris wrote: >No, I haven't tried to control two machines simultaneously. I would like >to create a mutiple-unit interface, using Opcode's MAX. I would like to >build it in a modular fashion, so as to keep the interface flexible (ie. >easy to change/upgrade). I imagine I will start creating basic functions >(record, overdub, undo, etc.) which works on multiple units. Then, I can I used Max for testing all the midi functions during the echoplex developmet. The patch is a bit messy, but it is capable of executing all of the midi stuff. You could easily lift pieces of it out to make sub-patches for what you are talking about here. Want it? I'd be interested in any Max patches you do. >create function sequences -- [for example, one push of a button could start >one unit looping, the next push of a button could both: end that loop and >start a new one, etc. -- (the Jam Man has this "phrasing" cabability, but >it is an "un-undo-able" overdub)] I think this was just an oversight for us on the Echoplex. We added this for the unavailable upgrade, and its a really cool function. One of my favorites. >Another capability I would like to have is to be able to switch between >loops (within one unit) on multiple units. For example, assume I have two >loops in each of 4 units, and all 4 units are currently playing their >respective loop #1's. Then, one push of a button could make (up to) all 4 >units switch to their loop #2's -- on the beat! In this way, I could >create different sections of a "song" (verse/chorus, a/b/c, etc) and be >able to switch between them with one push of a button. My goal is to be >able to create simple (James-Brown-like) arrangements -- on the fly -- and >"orchestrate" them while jamming on top of them. You can do this with midi on the echoplex pretty easily. Use the loop triggering functions, so sending the appropriate midi note switches directly to the loop you want to go to. (So you can jump directly from loop 2 to loop 8, say.) Probably you'd want to have each 'plex on a different midi channel, and send the note to all those channels. You could probably put them all on the same channel, I guess, if you always expected them to do the same thing. You could even set them to all respond to different sets of midi notes when switching loops and play them as chords on a keyboard. Two cool things about this. One is velocity sensitivity, so you could have a loop play quieter or louder. In your James Brown synario, you could have the "band" drop way down for those funky quiet bits he does, even dropping some instruments out altogether. (uh HUH!) Then give yourself eight with the mute-insert stuttering effect. (Yeah!) And kick the next section at full bore maxi-funk by switching loops wth velocity at 127. (uh GET on UP-uh!) The other cool thing is the SwitchQuant, which quantizes your loop switches so they happen right on the JB-approved one. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Sep 15 04:17:33 1996 >From kflint Sun Sep 15 04:09:06 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v2F4T-0005V0-00; Sun, 15 Sep 1996 04:09:05 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v2F8G-0002qN-00; Sun, 15 Sep 1996 04:13:00 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 04:10:01 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: MacLOOP Resent-Message-ID: <"ignw0C.A.nlC.9R-Oy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/129 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 04:13:00 -0700 X-UIDL: 7927c6635a3324329cb26dbff2478a34 >On Fri, 13 Sep 1996, Matthias wrote: > >> Can anyone understand why under the zillion models of Apple, there is none >> made for the musician, who always was the most faithfull mac client? >> It would be very easy to do a 19" rack version with a LCD screen for stage >> and a ordinary monitor for home! >> All the musicians and studios and probably even some industries would want >> that model! and Dave then said: >I definitely concur. I'm used to seeing PCs in industrial-strength >rackmount cases, and it amazes me that the same isn't available for >the Macintosh. Maybe one of the new clone makers will pursue this >market. Reliable rackmount VGA monitors are available, as are robust >pointing devices. All that really needs to change is the case. Well us musicians are standing behind the desktop publishing industry and the film editing industry in the Apple complaint line. They never seemed to address the needs of their most loyal customers very well. Maybe things are finally changing, but then how many times has that been said? ah well.... > >> Well Dave, if you really do it, I will be very happy! >> - One thing would be a shareware version, that does the basic for everyone >> to play. Go ahead. > >Well, if I do this, I'll either give it away, or find some >distribution channel to sell it. Those of you in the audio industry, >do you think a major vendor might pick up something like this and >redistribute it? I'm a programmer by nature, which is the logical >complement of marketing. :} Oh sure! You'll be offered a very generous royalty with a handsome initial payment. A team of their finest product specialists will be assigned to develop a solid marketing strategy, which will include a major worldwide marketing campaign in all the finest publications. The sales force will relish the opportunity to sell a new product that is more complicated than a can opener and actually requires them to explain something to music store buyers. Glowing reviews will appear. Major artists will be actively courted for endorsements. The superb accounting department will perfectly track sales, provide you with figures, and always pay the correct royalty amount on time. You'll be sitting pretty in no time! Gee, that wasn't too sarcastic was it? As if I wasn't cynical enough about this industry, I've been hanging out with Tom Oberheim lately. I'm learning from the master..... >in point. Or maybe the reality is that we're such a tiny subculture >that there simply isn't a real market for such tools. :/ Not that tiny, really. Akai and Roland are on to something with the phrase samplers they've got for dj's and techno producers. Those things are loopers, with a different sort of interface and some different functionality. (they are pretty cool too) The trouble is that no one has figured out how to cross into all the places where loopers exist. Gibson/oberheim only know how to sell to guitar players, Lexicon sells to recording studios, Roland and akai to synth players. Loopers are in all those places and more..... >An interesting aside... do you think of your looping device(s) as an >effect, or as an instrument? For me, the JamMan and Vortex are >instruments in and of themselves, not just processing for my guitar. >They're just instruments that need an outside tone source. > >-dave > Its an instrument!!!!!! And like any good instrument, it allows the beginner to have a good time with just a few basics. Record a loop and play along with it. Anyone can do it and have a good time. Just like anyone can learn a couple of open chords on guitar and have a good time playing a few simple songs. But then, like the guitar, you can take it to much greater depth, expand your technique, and really develop your own musical voice with it. I really feel like these are the early days for a great new instrument, and we are the ones defining a vocabulary for the future. Its great to see all the conversation going on here, we've started kicking the pace up a notch or two! kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Sep 15 23:07:34 1996 >From kflint Sun Sep 15 04:15:52 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v2FB0-0006ge-00; Sun, 15 Sep 1996 04:15:50 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v2FEn-0003Nu-00; Sun, 15 Sep 1996 04:19:45 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 04:17:06 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Moo. Resent-Message-ID: <"8gRD_B.A.BID.oY-Oy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/130 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 04:19:45 -0700 X-UIDL: 08c934720c3b7df9ebf2f0fb9a156a8f >Here's one we seem to have forgotten: > >Bill Frisell. Bill has used short spontaneous loops as >ambiance in a live setting for years. I believe he uses >a custom device with 16 seconds of infinite delay. During >a piece he samples a bit of something, speeds it up, slows >it down, and mangles it. Then, he'll fade in the loop at >some opportune time in the performance. There is plenty >of this on his album _Power Tools_. He shares that drunken, >warped sound with Torn but in a different way. Bill F. >doesnt use a whammy bar, all his warping is done by bending >the neck as he plays. He's got killer jazz chops too. My friend, fellow former g-wizzer, and tomorrow's jam partner, Matt Wright, is also a frisell fanatic. He actually claims to own all of his recordings.... Anyway, he suggests the following Frisell tracks: >Well I can make one contribution. A use of the electro-harmonix 16 second >delay: Bill Frisell. You can hear it on the Frisell/Driscoll/Baron Live >CD, especially the intro to "No Moe". kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Sep 15 23:07:39 1996 >From kflint Sun Sep 15 10:52:30 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v2LMq-0004g0-00; Sun, 15 Sep 1996 10:52:28 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v2LQh-00014C-00; Sun, 15 Sep 1996 10:56:27 -0700 Message-Id: <199609151753.NAA03870@husc.harvard.edu> Date: Sun, 15 Sep 96 18:56:56 0500 From: David Kirkdorffer X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: (no subject) X-URL: http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"PnRdPD.A.w8.BLEPy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/132 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 10:56:27 -0700 X-UIDL: 4f210d1de0edd97fb726cfd3bb330842 Is there any possibility of creating a digest of the loopers delight e-mail group that could come out once or twice a week? david kirkdorffer echoplex user From ???@??? Sun Sep 15 23:07:37 1996 >From kflint Sun Sep 15 07:14:22 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v2Hxl-0006Wp-00; Sun, 15 Sep 1996 07:14:21 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v2I1Z-0005lp-00; Sun, 15 Sep 1996 07:18:17 -0700 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9609151017.ZM19250@marcus.its.rpi.edu> Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 10:17:26 -0400 In-Reply-To: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) "Re: Technohoploops?" (Sep 15, 3:04am) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 07feb95) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Technohoploops? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"Ig1TZD.A.FZF.OABPy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/131 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 07:18:17 -0700 X-UIDL: 85efc54511fd6077bfd307c467aed7a5 kim, howdy! I'm now at iEAR studying with xavier chabot(ircam director for 5-6 years) we're doing a ton of stuff with max. So, I'd be interested in your max patches. collier From ???@??? Sun Sep 15 23:07:41 1996 >From kflint Sun Sep 15 22:19:53 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v2W63-00047I-00; Sun, 15 Sep 1996 22:19:51 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v2W6K-0005or-00; Sun, 15 Sep 1996 22:20:08 -0700 Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 22:07:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609160507.WAA12179@pure.pure.com> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: Hello and such Resent-Message-ID: <"rDBWcB.A.dPF.bEOPy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/133 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 22:20:08 -0700 X-UIDL: 779db2c8aa06f746c543e53f446d626b >And by "standalone", I meant something like Deck, same as you're talking >about. A cheap software app that takes advantage of the audio and >processing in the pc. Problem with that, though, is you only have a stereo >input so you can't record multiple sources into different loops at once. >And you have a crappy multimedia codec digitizing the audio. The other >problem is that most sound cards don't let you record and play back at the >same time. Korg is releasing a PCI card for the Mac, which will work with Deck, that has (as I recall) 12 ins/outs. Mosey over to the Deck list to read the guy from Macromedia flogging it. Price is right (a bit more than the Digi stereo Audiomedia card). In fact, let's see what I can dig up from the archives. . . >The Korg 1212 I/O card offers analog stereo, S/PDIF, and ADAT optical - a >total of 12 channels of I/O. All of which can be used simultaneously or in >any combination. > >Hank H. >Don't know if this is anywhere else, but here is my current blurb: > >Korg 1212 I/O > >PCI bus audio card >Adat optical in and out (16 bit) >S/PDIF in and out (16 or 20 bit) >Analog in and out (16 bit) >Word Clock in and out >Adat sync in >Bundled with Macromedia's Deck II multitrack recording software > >* The 1212 I/O features 12 independent record and playback channels - > 8 Adat, 2 S/PDIF, and 2 Analog. Deck will allow recording and playback > using all 12 channels. > >* Any input channel can be routed to any output channel. > > This means, for instance, that you can bring in signals from the Adat > input, send them out S/PDIF for processing, bring them back in via > S/PDIF, and then send them back to the Adat. > >* The 1212 I/O's Adat sync in port allows the 1212 I/O to synchronize > playback with an Adat system, acting essentially as another Adat. Time > code can be derived from this input, allowing programs within the > computer (such as Deck II) to sync to an Adat system without need for a > BRC. The 1212 I/O will also work well in combination with the BRC. > >* The Korg DRS series product line also includes two rack-mount > Adat-to-analog interfaces. The 880 D/A is an 8-channel D/A, converting > the Adat input to 8 analog outputs; the 880 A/D is an 8-channel A/D, > converting 8 analog inputs to Adat output. > > By connecting these interfaces to the 1212 I/O's Adat input and output, > you can add 8 additional analog inputs and/or outputs, for a total > of 10 analog inputs and 10 analog outputs. (By using additional analog > converters for the S/PDIF channels, one could bring all 12 channels out > to analog, if desired.) > > These interfaces do not add additional channels; they merely mirror the > Adat channels to analog inputs and outputs. The upper limit on i/o > remains constant: 12 channels in, 12 channels out. > > Each interface includes both Adat input and output, allowing them to > be used within the Adat optical loop. This means that you don't need to > re-patch to switch between analog and Adat optical i/o; the same 8 > channels are mirrored to both analog and Adat formats. >Using a pc/mac for looping is really something that would only apply to >studio use, though. Not many people are willing to lug their computer to >rehearsals, gigs and on tours. Its a big risk, and expensive to do it >safely. The interface could be made so much more powerful, that it's worth thinking seriously about. All we need is a PCMCIA I/O card. Powerbook 5300s are ~1700 in color. That would not be unreasonable at all. >One thing that concerns me, design wise, is the real-time performance of >the mac/pc while its handling lots of I/O, audio processing, and disk >accesses. The reaction time is critical in looping, and desktop os's are >not designed for this. Deck works pretty darn well. Peeople with fast machines are going 16+ tracks of 44.1 audio, with mixing and EQ and effects. From ???@??? Sun Sep 15 23:07:43 1996 >From kflint Sun Sep 15 22:34:40 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v2WKN-0004Xv-00; Sun, 15 Sep 1996 22:34:39 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v2WKf-000668-00; Sun, 15 Sep 1996 22:34:57 -0700 Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 22:24:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609160524.WAA12773@pure.pure.com> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: Hello and such Resent-Message-ID: <"jfhyYC.A.EkF.6TOPy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/134 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 22:34:57 -0700 X-UIDL: 0ee09546f3cbfec2ec78adfd343685ed >I know EXACTLY what you're talking about; I want to do the same thing. >The way I see it, this program should be able to run multiple loops >simultaneously, and either mix them together or switch back and forth >betwen them. If each loop is an independent entity from the mixer, >then loop length is arbitrary. New loops could be created as copies >of old loops, or as rational relations to other loops (1/3, 2x, etc), >or with their own arbitrary length. EXACTLY! >The sound source should be irrelevant. It should be able to get sound >off the stock Mac inputs, Digidesign, Turtle Beach, or Korg cards, or >any standard-format sound files off the disk. It should also be able >to save your loops in standard audio formats, as well as a custom >format for the system (collections of loops, a set of performance >notes attached, etc). Right. From ???@??? Mon Sep 16 00:37:35 1996 >From kflint Sun Sep 15 23:54:05 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v2XZ8-0007C1-00; Sun, 15 Sep 1996 23:53:58 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v2XHF-0007KR-00; Sun, 15 Sep 1996 23:35:29 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 03:38:34 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: MacLOOP Resent-Message-ID: <"KG-ZFD.A.U1G.FUPPy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/136 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 23:35:29 -0700 X-UIDL: 25cb8bd4426edbdc5fab257e9cfed997 >Its an instrument!!!!!! And like any good instrument, it allows the >beginner to have a good time with just a few basics. Record a loop and play >along with it. Anyone can do it and have a good time. Just like anyone can >learn a couple of open chords on guitar and have a good time playing a few >simple songs. But then, like the guitar, you can take it to much greater >depth, expand your technique, and really develop your own musical voice >with it. I really feel like these are the early days for a great new >instrument, and we are the ones defining a vocabulary for the future. Its >great to see all the conversation going on here, we've started kicking the >pace up a notch or two! Great speach, Kim! Matthias From ???@??? Mon Sep 16 00:37:33 1996 >From kflint Sun Sep 15 23:54:05 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v2XZ6-0007C1-00; Sun, 15 Sep 1996 23:53:56 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v2XZP-0007fz-00; Sun, 15 Sep 1996 23:54:15 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 03:38:41 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Moo. Resent-Message-ID: <"mKgBi.A.ULH.zlPPy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/138 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 23:54:15 -0700 X-UIDL: c72fd2c84eaf7bae89f3c67ec077547f sorry, why "Moo"? (not in my dictionary) From ???@??? Mon Sep 16 00:37:32 1996 >From kflint Sun Sep 15 23:54:04 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v2XZ7-0007C1-00; Sun, 15 Sep 1996 23:53:57 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v2XPz-0007U9-00; Sun, 15 Sep 1996 23:44:31 -0700 Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 23:42:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609160642.XAA15275@pure.pure.com> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <10AF44D3330@laserm.lmt.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"F3teK.A.8_G.ncPPy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Unidentified subject! Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/137 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 23:44:31 -0700 X-UIDL: edfb2f94642211e66b03d73e30d5a9a5 >> Maybe I had a bad machine? Or it is not serious really? > >I'm thinking that's what's happening here, either that or you overdrove the >signal so that it distorted in some way or maybe the tape wasn't up to it. >You have to use high quality tapes. I'd get your deck checked out. No, this is fairly common. It's head-switching noise. Some machines are worse than others. From ???@??? Mon Sep 16 00:37:36 1996 >From kflint Sun Sep 15 23:56:24 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v2XbT-0007Gl-00; Sun, 15 Sep 1996 23:56:23 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v2Xbl-0007kI-00; Sun, 15 Sep 1996 23:56:41 -0700 Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 23:54:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609160654.XAA15603@pure.pure.com> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: Unidentified subject! Resent-Message-ID: <"uKQg-D.A.qPH.FoPPy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/139 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 23:56:41 -0700 X-UIDL: 010d7542d82bad0f4cb4ade89e1f55f0 Matthias writes: >Ray Peck said: > >>I have a recording, which I made myself, of Eno discussing "It's Gonna >>Rain", and explaining that that's where he got the idea, which was >>passed on to Fripp. > >What means "the idea" in this case? The tape loop as a compositional device. >When I was about 8 years old, I "discovered" the capability of fathers tape >machine to create echoes. I had a great shock, in fact, because it was an >increasing one. I did this, too, with a reel-to-reel when I was about 15. I had a Sequential Circuits Pro 1 which has a sequencer in it. The sequence can be transposed with the keyboard. I would crank the reverb feedback up as close as I could get to unity, set the sequence speed as close as I could get to some multiple of the delay length, and bliss out. Another neat trick was that you could use one oscillator as an LFO, and could set both LFOs on square or pulse shapes. I'd set them both to modify the oscillator's frequency by, say, minor thirds, and bliss out once again, while the LFOs slowly went out of phase. Lots of other tricks too. I ran across a reel with some of this stuff the other day. Neat memories. >I certainly was influenced a lot by Pink Floyd that used echo as rithmic >base, and so was Eno, maybe... Yeah, Roger used to use a slap-back echo, like on "Careful w/ that Axe". >So your recording is very interesting. Would you mind to write down the >dedicated part so we can post it? I'll try to get to it. Eno's said this on a number of occasions. I might have an audio version on-line. BTW, it's be (far) easier for me to actually put the recording up than to transcribe it. From ???@??? Mon Sep 16 00:37:37 1996 >From kflint Sun Sep 15 23:58:34 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v2XdV-0007M6-00; Sun, 15 Sep 1996 23:58:29 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v2Xdl-00000o-00; Sun, 15 Sep 1996 23:58:45 -0700 Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 23:56:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609160656.XAA15679@pure.pure.com> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: Hello and such Resent-Message-ID: <"OtzevB.A.eTH.HqPPy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/140 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 23:58:45 -0700 X-UIDL: 3dae0b9b4daa5f6fd70d5b7c767d283a >How does that "automatically loop this think I'm recording" feature work? >Sounds interesting! Should be "thing", of course. I don't remember how it works. I'll look it up soon. I haven't tried it yet. From ???@??? Mon Sep 16 00:37:27 1996 >From kflint Sun Sep 15 23:12:11 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v2Wug-0005ql-00; Sun, 15 Sep 1996 23:12:10 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v2Wuz-0006su-00; Sun, 15 Sep 1996 23:12:29 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 23:09:46 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: (no subject) Resent-Message-ID: <"G2t3vB.A.jbG.b-OPy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/135 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 23:12:29 -0700 X-UIDL: cc94c212e6f7025cdc62747fc513aa34 >Is there any possibility of creating a digest of the loopers delight >e-mail group that could come out once or twice a week? > >david kirkdorffer >echoplex user Yes, I'm going to do that. I was going to set that up this weekend, but looks like i've run out of time. Hopefully real soon..... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Mon Sep 16 08:46:42 1996 >From kflint Mon Sep 16 06:49:09 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v2e2t-0004aS-00; Mon, 16 Sep 1996 06:49:07 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v2e38-0003qX-00; Mon, 16 Sep 1996 06:49:22 -0700 Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 09:52:52 -0400 From: cwb@platinum.com (Clark Battle) Message-Id: <199609161352.JAA14265@octopus.ab.platinum.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Technohoploops? X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"9K4auD.A.0kD.4qVPy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/141 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 06:49:22 -0700 X-UIDL: 95e52472ca6655f684e048565af7a504 >From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) >You are probably the one with the most Echoplexes in the world (I have two >to make stereo sound and an old one for programming) - so show us what is >possible ! Does the echoplex only take a mono signal? Do you really need two to loop stereo signals? Clark From ???@??? Tue Sep 17 00:09:24 1996 >From kflint Mon Sep 16 15:05:22 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v2ln4-0004l3-00; Mon, 16 Sep 1996 15:05:18 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v2lOv-0000op-00; Mon, 16 Sep 1996 14:40:21 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: ToddM@LaserMaster.Com Organization: LaserMaster Corporation Date: 16 Sep 1996 16:36:43CST6CDT Subject: Loopy & Moo. Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail/Mac v2.0 Message-ID: <151BEC62B5B@laserm.lmt.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"haC35B.A.It.njcPy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/143 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 14:40:21 -0700 X-UIDL: d6e9b6eb2619294847f6dc537d57718d Re: Moo: Why not Moo? Moo is the cow sound. Looping it becomes an OM like reverberance. Re: VHS HiFi Head Switching Noise: Odd. Can anyone shed light on this occurrence? I'm not hearing this on mine, even in headphones but I might not be as audio anal as some. Loop Storage: Just to give you an idea regarding how I store the loops is like this. My profuse apologies to DAT fans, but I don't have DAT yet (and likely won't for a while, I'd much rather have an Echoplex!)...Here's how to store loops on VHS hi-fi videotapes. o Take the RCA line-outs from the mixer of my four-track into the front-mounted RCA jacks on my VCR. Use decent, shielded RCA cables, not "chez Plastic" brand for the best signal transfer. Note: Make sure your recording levels are not going to be going into the red. remember that most VCRs have an analog preamp for this kind of thing and you might want to avoid creaming it or your tape WILL sound bad. A good way of monitoring the sound levels is to insert a stereo cassette deck with LED / flourescent metering AFTER the VCR to adjust levels on the 4-track recorder. Another way I do it is this way, which is a bit more complicated: 4-track to Barcus-Berry Sonic Maximizer, BBE into VCR, after the VCR we have the aforementioned JVC cassette deck for level monitoring and from there into a Rotel integrated amplifier and from there into headphones or my monitor system. The BBE process some of you may be familiar with, but it adds some audio sweetening. If I really want to get into a complicated territory, I can add my complete looping rig into the effects loop of the four track recorder for additional processing (Vortex / SGE / Studio Preamp, ad infinitum).. o Start the VCR recording on a fresh, good quality (not cheapie tapes, the good stuff). Before recording, take the new tape and fast forward all the way to the end and rewind. Record for five minutes silence in order to get a good header on the tape (what are you crying about missing five minutes for? The tape stores eight hours fer chrissakes...) o Record loops. Play back. Enjoy. Store them. You could also create EXTREMELY long loops (like the end of "Walking on Air" by King Crimson in concert - Fripp would set his loopers to peter out long after he left the auditorium....but set maximum loopage for loops that last HOURS...) Some video tapes are 8-9 hours in length, could create maxloop! But for the most part. NOTE: the longer the tape, the riskier the long term storage of same. The 120 tapes which are 6 hours in length are probably safest. You should use the standard methods of how tapes are to be stored, but I doubt you'll need to store them tails-out as it were. Kim: You finally did it. I gotta get an echoplex. I'm going bananas. By next spring, by hook or by crook. Agk. From ???@??? Tue Sep 17 00:09:25 1996 >From kflint Mon Sep 16 15:23:02 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v2m4D-0005Pm-00; Mon, 16 Sep 1996 15:23:01 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v2m4V-0001yn-00; Mon, 16 Sep 1996 15:23:19 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: ToddM@LaserMaster.Com Organization: LaserMaster Corporation Date: 16 Sep 1996 16:50:52CST6CDT Subject: Mis-formatted HellText. Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail/Mac v2.0 Message-ID: <151FB454DA5@laserm.lmt.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"thqmCB.A.J0B.jMdPy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/144 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 15:23:19 -0700 X-UIDL: 9bd97b8a87f012d900a68850e4bdffd7 Sorry kids. That looked awful when I saw it come back. Re-formatted for better reader mental processing. Re: Moo: Why not Moo? Moo is the cow sound. Looping it becomes an OM like reverberance. Re: VHS HiFi Head Switching Noise: Odd. Can anyone shed light on this occurrence? I'm not hearing this on mine, even in headphones but I might not be as audio anal as some. Loop Storage: Just to give you an idea regarding how I store the loops is like this. My profuse apologies to DAT fans, but I don't have DAT yet (and likely won't for a while, I'd much rather have an Echoplex!)...Here's how to store loops on VHS hi-fi videotapes. Take the RCA line-outs from the mixer of my four-track into the front-mounted RCA jacks on my VCR. Use decent, shielded RCA cables, not "chez Plastic" brand for the best signal transfer. Note: Make sure your recording levels are not going to be going into the red. Remember that most VCRs have an analog preamp for this kind of thing and you might want to avoid creaming it or your tape WILL sound bad. A good way of monitoring the sound levels is to insert a stereo cassette deck with LED / flourescent metering AFTER the VCR to adjust levels on the 4-track recorder. Another way I do it is this way, which is a bit more complicated: 4-track to Barcus-Berry Sonic Maximizer, BBE into VCR, after the VCR we have the aforementioned JVC cassette deck for level monitoring and from there into a Rotel integrated amplifier and from there into headphones or my monitor system. The BBE process some of you may be familiar with, but it adds some audio sweetening. If I really want to get into a complicated territory, I can add my complete looping rig into the effects loop of the four track recorder for additional processing (Vortex / SGE / Studio Preamp, ad infinitum).. Start the VCR recording on a fresh, good quality (not cheapie tapes, the good stuff). Before recording, take the new tape and fast forward all the way to the end and rewind. Record for five minutes silence in order to get a good header on the tape (what are you crying about missing five minutes for? The tape stores eight hours fer chrissakes...) Record loops. Play back. Enjoy. Store them. You could also create EXTREMELY long loops (like the end of "Walking on Air" by King Crimson in concert - Fripp would set his loopers to peter out long after he left the auditorium....but set maximum loopage for loops that last HOURS...) Some video tapes are 8-9 hours in length, you could create maxloop! But for the most part. NOTE: the longer the tape, the riskier the long term storage of same. The 120 tapes which are 6 hours in length are probably safest. You should use the standard methods of how tapes are to be stored, but I doubt you'll need to store them tails-out as it were. Be safe rather than sorry, I caveat triumphantly. Kim: You finally did it. I gotta get an echoplex. I'm going bananas. By next spring, by hook or by crook. Agk. From ???@??? Tue Sep 17 00:08:57 1996 >From kflint Mon Sep 16 09:11:03 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v2gGE-0005Tp-00; Mon, 16 Sep 1996 09:11:02 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v2gGV-00075p-00; Mon, 16 Sep 1996 09:11:19 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 09:07:51 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Technohoploops? Resent-Message-ID: <"HVwr3C.A.glG.HvXPy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/142 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 09:11:19 -0700 X-UIDL: acf7620c77e7631975bb8c9d1faea8c8 >>From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) >>You are probably the one with the most Echoplexes in the world (I have two >>to make stereo sound and an old one for programming) - so show us what is >>possible ! > >Does the echoplex only take a mono signal? Do you really need >two to loop stereo signals? > Yes, that is true. Its also true of the Jamman and Boomerang. The reason is that at the time it was being designed, the cost of memory and processing required to do stereo loops would have made the list price much too high. That is not so true anymore, and I imagine that next generation loopers will have no problem including the capablity of multiple simultaneous loops. The advantage of the current Echoplex over the others out there is that it is designed to easily sync with other echoplexes. (as well as other sources) Its "BrotherSync" does two things. It syncs the sample clocks together, so you don't have phase problems, and it provides sync pulses in such a way that any of the units connected can define the basic loop. The others can then easily create loops of exactly the same length or multiples of that length. This is much more than just stereo, and can be quite a powerful tool. So it is quite easy for Chris Chovit and others to use several of them at once forhis multi-track type loops. The best stereo set up is really a subset of the brothersync setup, although a little different. With stereo you have one echoplex be master and one slave. Midi out of the master is sent to the midi in of the slave, so commands on the master are duplicated on the slave. You also connect the brothersync so that the sample clocks are together. Once it is set up, you don't have to think about it anymore, the two operate together. (and by the way, there are people with more echoplexes than Chris. I believe there is one fellow with 8 or 9 of them) kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Sep 17 00:09:37 1996 >From kflint Mon Sep 16 19:18:34 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v2pk9-0005Ic-00; Mon, 16 Sep 1996 19:18:33 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v2plU-0000li-00; Mon, 16 Sep 1996 19:19:56 -0700 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9609162045.ZM54765@marcus.its.rpi.edu> Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 20:45:59 -0400 In-Reply-To: ToddM@LaserMaster.Com "Mis-formatted HellText." (Sep 16, 3:26pm) References: <151FB454DA5@laserm.lmt.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 07feb95) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Mis-formatted HellText. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"qOPRBB.A.ks.uqgPy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/145 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 19:19:56 -0700 X-UIDL: 6cb21e10f669b2c68a93fc6fa536ba1c super heavy lofied approach... I love that stuff! so, what's the best most efficient way to get chips for the jammdude? financially mitigating any and all middlemen of course. also, are there any mods out there? still working on getting the real thing(!) collier From ???@??? Wed Sep 18 00:30:50 1996 >From kflint Tue Sep 17 01:25:09 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v2vSs-00041E-00; Tue, 17 Sep 1996 01:25:06 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v2vUE-0000bC-00; Tue, 17 Sep 1996 01:26:30 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 01:23:39 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Looper's Delight, the first week... Resent-Message-ID: <"7aqM2C.A.Di.CCmPy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/146 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 01:26:30 -0700 X-UIDL: 1d2c3d86f469ebabbda22b6f48e9ba22 It's been quite an exciting and dramatic start for the Looper's Delight mailing list! After just one week, we have 40 subscribers already! And that's with virtually no publicizing on my part. Ouside of an emailed announcement I made to a bunch of folks I knew were into looping, it's all been word of mouth. Also, we've been quite prolific, with 115 posts so far. The Looper's Delight home page had 60 hits last week for a grand total of 218. Compared to the number of hits my home page normally gets, those are some big numbers! And considering the growth rate we're seeing, I expect it will get quite a bit bigger soon. Are we really that tiny of a subculture? I do plan to do some more significant publicity for the list, since I hope to bring in a good diversity of loopers to share their differing perspectives on the art and keep things interesting. Don't wait for me, though. If you want to tell your looping friends or post your own announcement wherever you think some loopers might be hangin', by all means go ahead! I've been busy fixing stuff up behind the scenes here, despite working billions of hours a week at a Silly-con Valley startup. Here are some of the little bugs I've cleaned up over the past week: - The irritating "Resent-To" header line has been fixed so it only shows your address rather than half the subscribers on the list. - The "Reply-To" header shows up with the list address, so we don't accidently mail replies just to the person who posted when we meant them for the whole list. - The list address always shows up correctly with my domain name. Before it sometimes used my service provider's domain name, which was confusing. - The various subscription and help texts that get sent out automatically were edited so that they hold at least a little bit of useful information. Some of you have complained that the volume is perhaps too high, and asked if I could make a digest option. That's in the works, I expect it will be going this week some time. I'll announce how to subscribe to it. Also, I plan to put the list archives on the web site. The digest will make that easier for me, and in the mean time, if anyone wants to volunteer to make archive files out of all the posts, I'd welcome the help. As for volunteerism, you guys have been great. Lots of people have jumped at the idea of contributing things to the web site. Some good stuff has come in already, and more things are on the way. We've got the beginnings of a great little community going here, which is exactly what I had hoped for. Keep it up, it can only get cooler! loop on.... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Wed Sep 18 00:31:10 1996 >From kflint Tue Sep 17 10:31:12 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v33zK-0007GU-00; Tue, 17 Sep 1996 10:31:10 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v33zb-0000iZ-00; Tue, 17 Sep 1996 10:31:27 -0700 From: sarajanes@mdcs.com (Sarajanes) Subject: A Short Introducion.. Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 16:41:20 GMT Message-Id: <842978480@mdcs.com> Organization: Micro Data Computer Systems To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Resent-Message-ID: <"HBh-eB.A.Un.TAuPy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/148 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 10:31:27 -0700 X-UIDL: 083014dd049097490e0d47e277c3d81b To Loopers Repeating Everywhere, At Kim's suggestion I'm forwarding the following text as a short introduction to any and all..... Dear Kim, Greetings my name is Bryan Helm, and my wife just contacted "loopers delight" to subscribe. I am the looper in the house however, she likes to do e-mail, and beat me to the punch as far as contacting you.Anyway my musical partner Dave Stafford turned me on to your forum, and I thought I would enjoy swapping verbal signals with other loopers. As a point of reference I'm 38 years old and have been looping since 1979. I started with a friend of mine using a couple of quarter inch half-tracks at 7and 1/2 ips (Tandberg and an Otari) returning signal through a Roland Space-Echo to control gain. We inputted all kinds of stuff(acoustic piano,acoustic guitar, found instruments, meetings) but mostly electric guitar w/effects and electric piano (Wurlitzer) and a Roland RS-09 string box, and an ARP 2600. We did limited release cassette tapes as "Cloud Silence" and performed in the central Ohio area in 1980 and 81 at Art museums and Coffee houses, record stores, wherever we could. We would use a microphone stand to act as a capstan and seperate the two decks by feet to accomplish maximum delay between repeating signals. We based the system on the illustration on the back of"Discreet Music" by Brian Eno. Having seen "Frippertronics" and better yet, heard it, we wanted to tweak our gear around as much as possible to access "like" textures. In general we could get close to three minutes of decay time with 5 to 10+ seconds delay between signals depending on deck positioning. We always tried to get maximum signal input levels to minimize the inherent noise ratios that loopinging in an analog tape format brings into play. We four tracked forwards against backwards loops (standard,double,half and quarter speeds) and in general had a good time, studio and live.We morphed into a trio that played with pretaped loops and then a quartet with no loops. In 1984 I obtained an Electro-Harmonix 16 Second Delay, and looping analog style( helped by a dead deck) was over. Having run over the sequencer thru space-echo combination probably one too many times, the EH unit was welcome and stayed my sole signal processing unit until I added an old Alesis Microverb and a Lexicon Jam-man with the 32 second upgrade in 1994. I use all these to process a Korg DW-8000, a Roland TR-505 drum machine, acoustic/electric guitar, and voice. I do live and studio work solo, and with Dave Stafford as "Bindlestiff"- A real time looping duet using no Midi or clock interfaces for synch.I've been listening to electronic music since 1968 but would probably be best labeled a techno-primitive in my approach to manual and electronic technique.For me looping is a wonderful means of accessing textures that always amuse and sometimes amaze. I've seen the tools advance in the last decade towards more and more players that I hope will bring the eloquent truth of good loops to more ears. "Ambient" works are still my favorite style of looping to play and listen to. I look forward to reading more comments, and welcome dialogue via e-mail with any loopers at the following address: sarajanes@mdcs.com Great to find this place in cyberspace. I hope to visit the website later this week. Sincerely, Bryan Helm From ???@??? Wed Sep 18 00:31:04 1996 >From kflint Tue Sep 17 10:15:44 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v33kK-0006bA-00; Tue, 17 Sep 1996 10:15:40 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v33kb-0000DR-00; Tue, 17 Sep 1996 10:15:57 -0700 Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 13:14:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: ejmd@pop.erols.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: ejmd@erols.com (Ed Drake) Subject: 1st Post- Various Topics Resent-Message-ID: <"UctiiC.A.4J.NytPy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/147 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 10:15:57 -0700 X-UIDL: ff3e273b4d7d2b9372035bf5c304c5b6 Hello Kim and fellow loopers, Thanks for starting up a great list! Keep up the great work. I'm going to apologize up front for what will probably be a long post. I am a fellow looper using Roland GR-1 guitar synth , Lexicon Jamman(32 sec) and Vortex,Digitech RDS8000 (8sec), 2 Roland SDE 1000(1.2 sec each),ART SGE Mach2, Mackie 1202 mixer and a few other things with both electric and acoustic guitars. I very seriously considering an Oberheim Echoplex. I am doing everything from rhythmic gamelan type looping to ambient droning washes to more traditional soloing over looped chord progressions. I have synced up my Jamman to my drum machine and am going to get into syncing Jamman to my Computer for Midi stuff. I agree with others posted about essential Loop Recordings including the Eno/Fripp/Torn/Frisell/Terry Riley/Steve Reich stuff. I wanted to add another of Steve Reich's pieces- "Electric Counterpoint" which features Pat Metheny playing all of the parts on multitrack. I know there is no looping device used but with the repetitive/minimalist parts that interlock and weave through various permutations, it is very looplike ( think gamelan/Fripp) and with the instruments being guitars it seems appropiate (since it seems a lot of us are guitarists). Kim Flint said: >The software that came with your echoplex is the most current *shipping* >software. A lot of work has been done on an upgrade that is actually really, >really good. It's currently being held up by a contract problem at Oberheim. >I'm trying to help the various parties work it out, hopefully soon. One way >or another I'm sure it will get out there. Kim -What are some of the issues which will/might be addressed when the software update is finally released? Andre La Fosse said: >but there are at least a few unfortunate >gremlins floating about in the initial version that have caused me a few >headaches). Andre -What are some of the gremlins you are talking about? Dave Stagner said: >Here's a technique I use with the JamMan to get a more flexible, >improvisational feel from it........ Now, rather than using the looping >functions, I usually >prefer to just use its delay function....... Turn the feedback up high >and start looping. At 16, you effectively have infinite repeat. As >things build, you can turn the feedback down and let a loop fade, then >turn it back up and add more to the loop while the older material floats >in the background. This makes for a much more dynamic and rewarding >looping improv, I think. Dave- I tried it and loved it but as Jon Durant pointed out it is a bummer that you can't loop it and play over it without adding what you are playing to the echo. Thanks anyway because I had not thought of using the Jamman like that and it does give a different approach to the looping. Someone posted (Sorry!) > Echoplexes often aren't as expensive as you'd think. The retail is about > $879 for a new unit, but for just over $500 I picked up a brand new unit > *plus* the foot controller. >The store I got it at (Nadine's here in L.A., incidentally one of > the few places I've found that even stocks the thing) wanted to move the > units. I called the guy at Nadine's after reading your post and talked to the owner and he said after I told him about the list he quoted me a price of $500 for the 12.5 second 'Plex and $75 for the footswitch contingent on whether Oberheim had changed it's list price. I told him I wasn't in a huge hurry to buy so he's supposed to call me back and I have not heard back yet. He said they will ship anywhere( I live in Virginia). Give him a call. dave at studio seventeen said : > in fact I made some major major changes to how I do things after I was >fortunate >enough to speak with John Sinks (RF's guitar tech). dave-What was your setup and how did you change it after speaking to John? I think it would be great to hear what other folks setups/signal paths are as well, as it might help to inspire us to try something we have not thought of before. Enough for now. Again thanks to Kim for a great list Best regards Ed Drake From ???@??? Wed Sep 18 00:31:14 1996 >From kflint Tue Sep 17 10:39:05 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v346x-0007Zx-00; Tue, 17 Sep 1996 10:39:03 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v347G-0000zA-00; Tue, 17 Sep 1996 10:39:22 -0700 Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 12:37:59 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: More JamMan tricks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"imB5uC.A.d4.XIuPy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/149 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 10:39:22 -0700 X-UIDL: 4c26dff2150213c46b821383a01c288f On Tue, 17 Sep 1996, Ed Drake wrote: > Dave Stagner said: > >Here's a technique I use with the JamMan to get a more flexible, > >improvisational feel from it........ Now, rather than using the looping > >functions, I usually > >prefer to just use its delay function....... Turn the feedback up high > >and start looping. At 16, you effectively have infinite repeat. As > >things build, you can turn the feedback down and let a loop fade, then > >turn it back up and add more to the loop while the older material floats > >in the background. This makes for a much more dynamic and rewarding > >looping improv, I think. > Dave- I tried it and loved it but as Jon Durant pointed out it is a bummer > that you can't loop it and play over it without adding what you are playing > to the echo. Thanks anyway because I had not thought of using the Jamman > like that and it does give a different approach to the looping. Someone here suggested trying to put my Vortex into the feedback loop of the JamMan manually, using a mixer. I tried it and it was interesting, but hard to control. I couldn't get a good balance between looping and feedback, and distorting the input on the JamMan is NOT pretty. I'm hoping to rewire things tonight to split the output from the Vortex and send it to the mixer and the JamMan separately, then mix the JamMan back in at the output. That way, I could control the JamMan's delay feedback without always sending signal into it. Ideally, I'd like to do this with a couple of stereo volume pedals, so I can control both the input to the JamMan and its output. Speaking of volume pedals, has anyone used the Rolls stereo volume/expression pedals? I can't find a dealer around here to try one, and I'm leery of buying one sight unseen. But right now, I'm using a gutted Crybaby as a jury-rigged expression pedal, and it's less than satisfying. As soon as I get the chance, I think I'm gonna pull out my trusty soldering iron and kludge a hand-control pot together for studio playing. And speaking of studios, I finally put one together, thanks to the motivation from this list. I realized how much I miss looping on a regular basis, and set a little table up in the basement, (hopefully) safe from the children. But they like playing my guitars whenever they get the chance... Daddy always leaves them in such pretty tunings! -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com */ -Charles Fort /* http://www.leepfrog.com/~dstagner */ From ???@??? Wed Sep 18 00:31:20 1996 >From kflint Tue Sep 17 11:34:24 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v34yQ-0001gL-00; Tue, 17 Sep 1996 11:34:18 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v34yk-0002fM-00; Tue, 17 Sep 1996 11:34:38 -0700 Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 11:00:12 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Gremlins and other oddities In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"rQPzqB.A.gcC.r7uPy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/150 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 11:34:38 -0700 X-UIDL: cf44abbf1d142137d1f54d0a860e2188 On Tue, 17 Sep 1996, Ed Drake wrote: > Andre La Fosse said: > >but there are at least a few unfortunate > >gremlins floating about in the initial version that have caused me a few > >headaches). > Andre -What are some of the gremlins you are talking about? The most problematic for me is that the reverse function has an erratic and unpredictable tendency to introduce a popping noise at the initial loop point, which is generally unremovable. In a transparent loop, this is a real bummer, dude. Beyond that, there's a function called "loop copy" which was apparently not finished in time for the initial shipment of the Oberheim; the slot on the front panel reserved for this function doesn't actually do anything, so you have to use a slightly less direct combination of commands to get this going (although it does work flawlessly when you use it). I've also noticed that the delay mode of the unit tends to be a bit tempramental in terms of how and where it decides to place the loop point. Finally, the storage-to-sequencer operation is a lot more complex than one might initially think; I finally got it working with the right sort of sequencing program (Performer) but it's mighty slow. (This last gripe has less to do with Echoplex problems, I think, and more to do with the evils of MIDI protocol in general). I've talked to Kim about most of these problems, and they look to be solved by the now-legendary Currently Unavailable Echoplex Upgrade. Kim has also made reference (on the Torn list, I think) to a variety of other fairly minor bugs which most of us have hopefully never noticed. (Are there any others we should be on the lookout for, Kim?) I have a suggestion: In order to demonstrate to Oberheim just how much demand there is for the upgrade, perhaps we should initiate an e-mail campaign demanding that the upgrade be released (and at a very reasonable price, since there are at least one or two things mentioned above that were supposed to be a part of the initial, fully-functional unit). > Someone posted (Sorry!) ('Twas me yet again...) > > Echoplexes often aren't as expensive as you'd think. The retail is about > > $879 for a new unit, but for just over $500 I picked up a brand new unit > > *plus* the foot controller. > > The store I got it at (Nadine's here in L.A., incidentally one of > > the few places I've found that even stocks the thing) wanted to move the > > units. > I called the guy at Nadine's after reading your post and talked to the > owner and he said after I told him about the list he quoted me a price of > $500 for the 12.5 second 'Plex and $75 for the footswitch contingent on > whether Oberheim had changed it's list price. I should also mention that the price I found the 'Plex at was part of a large store-wide sale. One of the guys there said I'd have to wait until the actual sale before I could snag the gear at that price. (As it was a store-wide, three day sale, I anticipated camping out on the front sidewalk early that morning, somehow envisioning imagining hordes of LA musicians eager to snatch up a real-time looper). However, when I went in to try one out, a different sales guy said he could do the sale price right then and there. Even at $500, though, it's still way cheaper than the $879 list price. However, I wouldn't be surprised if the price could be talked down cheaper still... Bye for now, --Andre From ???@??? Wed Sep 18 00:31:42 1996 >From kflint Tue Sep 17 16:07:29 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v39Ei-0004sG-00; Tue, 17 Sep 1996 16:07:24 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v38Yi-0001TT-00; Tue, 17 Sep 1996 15:24:00 -0700 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9609171446.ZM18556@hawk.vlsc.rpi.edu> Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 14:46:01 -0400 In-Reply-To: Dave Stagner "More JamMan tricks" (Sep 17, 10:40am) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: More JamMan tricks Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"7zA0EB.A.aUB.ZSyPy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/152 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 15:24:00 -0700 X-UIDL: 66994da151a01bcdc4a816a35dc53cec howdy all, this is collier, and if we need introductions I'll contribute one soon. on the rolls stereo volume pedal... well, it works and it's small... I was playing in LA and had to have a volume since my roland died, so I taxied over to the guitar center on sunset and picked up the "cheapy" out of emergency. guess what, it's plenty good enough for my live rig and it's quiet. around 30 something bucks. collier From ???@??? Wed Sep 18 00:31:25 1996 >From kflint Tue Sep 17 12:24:42 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v35lB-0003S4-00; Tue, 17 Sep 1996 12:24:41 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v35lP-0004CU-00; Tue, 17 Sep 1996 12:24:55 -0700 Date: 17 Sep 96 15:20:12 EDT From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Gremlins and other oddities Message-ID: <960917192012_100041.247_JHB161-2@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"h46DlD.A.o4D.yqvPy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/151 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 12:24:55 -0700 X-UIDL: 6210d8bad0d6d9e96921007b54c8d855 > I have a suggestion: In order to demonstrate to Oberheim just how much > demand there is for the upgrade, perhaps we should initiate an e-mail > campaign demanding that the upgrade be released excellent idea, Andre. Maybe it will stir up something at Oberheim Central. Kim and Matthias: who do you think we should send the email to? -M From ???@??? Wed Sep 18 00:31:44 1996 >From kflint Tue Sep 17 19:09:08 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v3C4W-00036H-00; Tue, 17 Sep 1996 19:09:04 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v3C4p-0007i9-00; Tue, 17 Sep 1996 19:09:23 -0700 Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 19:07:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609180207.TAA18049@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <151BEC62B5B@laserm.lmt.com> Subject: Loopy & Moo. Resent-Message-ID: <"-L5RuB.A.ONH.im1Py"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/153 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 19:09:23 -0700 X-UIDL: 2a8de242047bfad23f575ad3dccb88ff > NOTE: the longer the tape, the riskier the long term storage of same. The 120 tapes > which are 6 hours in length are probably safest. You should use the standard methods > of how tapes are to be stored, but I doubt you'll need to store them tails-out as it were. If I were storing loops on VHS tapee, I'd definitely do so in SP (high speed) mode. Much less likeely to los something audible due to physical tape problems that way. From ???@??? Wed Sep 18 00:31:53 1996 >From kflint Tue Sep 17 20:49:03 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v3DdF-0007EL-00; Tue, 17 Sep 1996 20:49:01 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v3Dda-0002Fw-00; Tue, 17 Sep 1996 20:49:22 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 00:52:09 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Loopy & Moo. Resent-Message-ID: <"s4V6JD.A.pFC.ZE3Py"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/154 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 20:49:22 -0700 X-UIDL: b03910f668eae4b969f1d9afcc3dd0ad >Re: Moo: >Why not Moo? Moo is the cow sound. Looping it becomes an OM like >reverberance. Oh, I see. Like it. By the way, what is man sound like? >Re: VHS HiFi Head Switching Noise: >Odd. Can anyone shed light on this occurrence? I'm not hearing this on >mine, even in >headphones but I might not be as audio anal as some. Hey wait, I am audio what? I see, I just was not lucky. And the guy that robbed the machine then not so much either... And yes, I used cheap tapes. >o Start the VCR recording on a fresh, good quality (not cheapie tapes, the >good stuff). > Before recording, take the new tape and fast forward all the way to the >end and rewind. > Record for five minutes silence in order to get a good header on the >tape (what are you > crying about missing five minutes for? The tape stores eight hours fer >chrissakes...) Oba, when I used slow speed, the noise used to become worse. I am happy that it works for you and wish many hours of loops. I am using a TCD D3 tiny DAT for years and keep fixing it (it is not very resistant). An amazing machine considering its high complexity! Matthias From ???@??? Wed Sep 18 22:08:15 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 18 00:42:44 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v3HHP-0000Sm-00; Wed, 18 Sep 1996 00:42:43 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v3HHi-00078B-00; Wed, 18 Sep 1996 00:43:02 -0700 Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 09:41:45 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Loops (no! loops?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"U22lK.A.XqG.ef6Py"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/155 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 00:43:02 -0700 X-UIDL: 8ba600538979e3d86f62bef520f098e1 You are all lucky to have these toys. So far trying to use advertisement in american paper I could find here in france (mostly gutar player and keyboards) to reach american retailers that could send to France. no succes so far. If you have a phone number of anyone, let me know.. I don't have a jamman, but I know a way to play over loops and modidfy in real time injections in the loop. Get the machine in the effect loop of your mixer ( i have a mckie 1202 and a 1604) that all, folks Olivier M. From ???@??? Wed Sep 18 22:08:18 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 18 01:49:06 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v3IJd-0006Xy-00; Wed, 18 Sep 1996 01:49:05 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v3IJx-0000KL-00; Wed, 18 Sep 1996 01:49:25 -0700 Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 10:48:13 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Torn... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"K2kQzB.A.1R.ud7Py"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/157 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 01:49:25 -0700 X-UIDL: 22758ae9951a4ca511aed73f98624a2f Is there also a David Torn e-mail list in this part of the universe? Does anyone know? O. M. From ???@??? Wed Sep 18 22:08:16 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 18 01:44:16 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v3IEx-0005j8-00; Wed, 18 Sep 1996 01:44:15 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v3IFH-0000Eh-00; Wed, 18 Sep 1996 01:44:35 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 01:41:38 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: More JamMan tricks Resent-Message-ID: <"e0IlPB.A.EM.2Y7Py"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/156 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 01:44:35 -0700 X-UIDL: f7ab17bc7a8e353b0722f1f52d1c7d01 >On Tue, 17 Sep 1996, Ed Drake wrote: > >> Dave Stagner said: >> >prefer to just use its delay function....... Turn the feedback up high >> >and start looping. At 16, you effectively have infinite repeat. As >> >things build, you can turn the feedback down and let a loop fade, then >> >turn it back up and add more to the loop while the older material floats >> >in the background. This makes for a much more dynamic and rewarding >> >looping improv, I think. >> Dave- I tried it and loved it but as Jon Durant pointed out it is a bummer >> that you can't loop it and play over it without adding what you are playing >> to the echo. Thanks anyway because I had not thought of using the Jamman >> like that and it does give a different approach to the looping. That is a bummer. I didn't realize the jamman couldn't do that. It's really a very useful technique to have the feedback turned down a bit while you continue playing. Constantly evolving textures and all. Of course you know that I'm going to go on about how the echoplex does this. I've got a big mail backlog and don't really have time so just pretend I'm saying it and we'll move on here. [blah, blah, blah] Dave again: >Someone here suggested trying to put my Vortex into the feedback loop >of the JamMan manually, using a mixer. I tried it and it was >interesting, but hard to control. I couldn't get a good balance >between looping and feedback, and distorting the input on the JamMan >is NOT pretty. > >I'm hoping to rewire things tonight to split the output from the >Vortex and send it to the mixer and the JamMan separately, then mix >the JamMan back in at the output. That way, I could control the >JamMan's delay feedback without always sending signal into it. >Ideally, I'd like to do this with a couple of stereo volume pedals, so >I can control both the input to the JamMan and its output. > I've been meaning to try something like this for a long time. I really want a looper to have an effects loop in the feedback path so I can have my loops change in some way with each pass. It occured to me some time back that this could probably be done with two loopers (jammans or echoplexes I suppose, and I'm sure there was a reason for why I thought I needed two to do this rather than one, but I'm not remembering it now). The feedback path could be set up externally and effects easily patched in. The downside is the unintentional effect of passing the loop through A/D / D/A conversions repeatedly. So how's it working out Dave? Has anyone else tried this? kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Wed Sep 18 22:08:20 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 18 01:51:49 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v3IMG-0006xl-00; Wed, 18 Sep 1996 01:51:48 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v3IMa-0000OH-00; Wed, 18 Sep 1996 01:52:08 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 01:49:44 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Unidentified subject! Resent-Message-ID: <"xETyx.A.4V.cg7Py"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/158 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 01:52:08 -0700 X-UIDL: 604a3d02c2a1016725fe3a38bc881366 >>Ray Peck said: >> >>>I have a recording, which I made myself, of Eno discussing "It's Gonna >>>Rain", and explaining that that's where he got the idea, which was >>>passed on to Fripp. >> >>So your recording is very interesting. Would you mind to write down the >>dedicated part so we can post it? > >I'll try to get to it. Eno's said this on a number of occasions. I >might have an audio version on-line. > >BTW, it's be (far) easier for me to actually put the recording up than >to transcribe it. This would be nifty for the web page. Does anyone know how to put RealAudio stuff on a web site? Better yet, does anyone want to figure it out, do whatever it takes to put the eno file in RealAudio format, and send it to me for uploading? kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Wed Sep 18 22:08:21 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 18 03:31:46 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v3Juy-0005X3-00; Wed, 18 Sep 1996 03:31:44 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v3JvH-0003r8-00; Wed, 18 Sep 1996 03:32:03 -0700 Message-Id: <9609181023.AA27435@everest.takefive.ch> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Eric Obermuhlner" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 12:23:17 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: (Fwd) Re: Gremlins and other oddities Reply-To: obermuhl@takefive.ch Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42a) Resent-Message-ID: <"S5mHD.A.xLD.j58Py"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/159 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 03:32:03 -0700 X-UIDL: cc6f780481895694f6bea54cd1d7fd4a Hi everybody I've been lurking sofar, because I'm not a musician. My connection to loop music and the reason why I'm on this list is, that I wrote the software for the Echoplex Digital and the old LoopDelay together with Matthias Grob and worked together with Kim at Gibson [Hi Matthias, Kim I finally found time to write some email :-)]. You can therefore blame most of the bugs on me. It is great to see so many people on this list and know that what we worked on all this time is actually being used and (I hope) liked. > Finally, the storage-to-sequencer operation is a lot more complex than > one might initially think; I finally got it working with the right sort > of sequencing program (Performer) but it's mighty slow. (This last gripe > has less to do with Echoplex problems, I think, and more to do with the > evils of MIDI protocol in general). > > I've talked to Kim about most of these problems, and they look to be > solved by the now-legendary Currently Unavailable Echoplex Upgrade. Kim > has also made reference (on the Torn list, I think) to a variety of other > fairly minor bugs which most of us have hopefully never noticed. (Are > there any others we should be on the lookout for, Kim?) > Yeah, MIDI Sample Dump is very complex. Actually it wouldn't be, but every Manufacturer implemented it a little bit different and the Echoplex doesn't have the user interface a Mac has, which makes it very hard to set all the parameters needed to fiddle until two units understand each other. The infamous update that hangs in contract-limbo will solve these problems I think. Much more params to set and better error-checking and weird-behaviour-work-arounds in MIDI Sample Dump should do it. The speed is a MIDI Sample Dump problem which cannot be solved. Sorry. Eric. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- thereisatheorythatstatesthatifthepurposeoftheuniversewereeverdiscoveredit wouldimmediatelybereplacedwithsomethingevenmorebizzarelyinexplicable [Douglas Adams] Eric Obermuhlner obermuhlner@takefive.ch thereisasecondtheorythatstatesthatthishasalreadyhappened [Douglas Adams] From ???@??? Wed Sep 18 22:08:26 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 18 06:49:03 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v3Mzu-0005AW-00; Wed, 18 Sep 1996 06:49:02 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v3N0D-0002qo-00; Wed, 18 Sep 1996 06:49:21 -0700 Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 09:46:55 -0400 From: "S. Patrick Hickey" Message-Id: <199609181346.JAA19004@nielsenmedia.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Torn... Resent-Message-ID: <"3dUjgB.A.CpC.u2_Py"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/160 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 06:49:21 -0700 X-UIDL: b39f5f9bba23fd27dbb270647d75cfaf Yes, there's DoorX, to which I subscribe. I also subscribe to Digital Guitar Digest. I see posts from Kim in both places and from Jon in the former, and learned of this list from one (both?) of the lists. Here's the trailer from a *digest* (:) version of DoorX: > OTHER STUFF > > To leave / join this mailing list or have your thoughts in the next issue, > please send electronic mail to Door X at the following address: > door-x@umich.edu > > You can contact the editor (Pete Cole) directly at the following address: > pcole@sseyod.demon.co.uk, or through the SSEYO Koan website at > http://www.sseyo.com ... > > Note : if you mail either of the above addresses on a Torn-related issue, > and definitely do *not* want your post in the next issue, then please mark > your mail as such ! Thanks ! > > Surf the awesome Torn Web site courtesy the one and only Jeff Stuit, at : > http://ott-outreach.engin.umich.edu/torn/ > > Visit Anil Prasad's INNERVIEWS website featuring in-depth interviews with > some of the world's most interesting and innovative musicians - including > David Torn - at : > http://www.carleton.ca/~aprasad > > Visit the CMP records web page at : http://www.move.de/cmp-records ... > > Torn can be sent e-mail via : > texture444@aol.com > Snail mail address : > C/O Texture, Box 465, Bearsville, NY, USA 12409. > > [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] > [] END OF DOORX [] > [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Enjoy, Pat Hickey ***SPH brzrkr@nielsenmedia.com From ???@??? Wed Sep 18 22:08:35 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 18 08:04:33 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v3OAx-0000YG-00; Wed, 18 Sep 1996 08:04:31 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v3OB8-0004Lz-00; Wed, 18 Sep 1996 08:04:42 -0700 Date: 18 Sep 96 10:51:29 EDT From: Teed Rockwell <74164.3703@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Teed/Geist in Concert Message-ID: <960918145129_74164.3703_GHQ96-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"AsHsv.A.2_D.J7AQy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/161 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 08:04:43 -0700 X-UIDL: 059ee99f247d1769da8087a5516fbb6c I probably should have posted this ages ago, but I'm doing a concert with Geist on Wednesday September 18th at 8:00 at Strings. Strings is in Oakland, CA at 6320 San Pablo. Take the Ashby Exit from ROute 80, then turn left on San Pablo, and go about 5 or 6 blocks. There is a blank sign, because technically this place is not a club at all, but someone's living room. Consequently, there is no admission charge, but a donation box, in which you can put whatever you can spare. A great sound system, and a nice receptive audience. I will be doing one piece using my Oberheim digital echoplex pro; The rest of the evening will be Geist, which is Harp, Chapman Stick, and Percussion. On September 28th at 7:00, The Echoplex and I will be playing Solo, opening for the Band Zero at the Marijuana Medicine show in Golden Gate Park. Watch this space for further details to be posted nearer the date. Teed Rockwell 74164.3703 From ???@??? Wed Sep 18 23:57:31 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 18 22:48:05 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v3bxy-0000jN-00; Wed, 18 Sep 1996 22:48:02 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v3byH-0004kj-00; Wed, 18 Sep 1996 22:48:21 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 22:43:47 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Loops (no! loops?) Resent-Message-ID: <"orD0yD.A._YE.M4NQy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/162 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 22:48:21 -0700 X-UIDL: fd5e13f9f7a65b9cd684e09835bfe029 >You are all lucky to have these toys. So far trying to use advertisement >in american paper I could find here in france (mostly gutar player and >keyboards) to reach american retailers that could send to France. no >succes so far. If you have a phone number of anyone, let me know.. >Olivier M. I can't remember Oberhiem's distributor in France, but it probably doesn't matter because it didn't pass CE emissions tests and so far as I know that problem wasn't fixed. I could be wrong about that though. I had finished most of the design revisions for that before I left, I just don't know if they ever actually did it. You can probably get one in Switzerland, since they don't require CE approval. I think the distributer there is Holles, if I remember right. Gibson's web page could probably help you find a dealer. That's www.gibson.com. I'm sure there are phone numbers there too. Oberheim's phone number is 510-635-9633. (add the right country code for the US, I have no idea what that is. I couldn't figure it out when I was in europe, either) hope that helps, if you still have troubles, ask me again. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Sep 19 02:55:54 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 19 00:42:57 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v3dl9-0005H3-00; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 00:42:55 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v3dlT-0006tN-00; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 00:43:15 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 00:39:41 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Gremlins and other oddities Resent-Message-ID: <"Coo6UC.A.WbG.0kPQy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/163 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 00:43:15 -0700 X-UIDL: 5bb3ef802793e785f8cdea0d068040a6 >> I have a suggestion: In order to demonstrate to Oberheim just how much >> demand there is for the upgrade, perhaps we should initiate an e-mail >> campaign demanding that the upgrade be released > >excellent idea, Andre. Maybe it will stir up something at Oberheim Central. >Kim and Matthias: who do you think we should send the email to? > >-M Some rabble-rousers, I like it! I could be completely diabolical and give you the email addresses of all the Gibson Guitar execs. A nagging voice tells me that won't really solve the problems, despite whatever amusement it may provide me. So until I stop hearing voices, I'll hold on to those. Oberheim is pretty good a fending off pesky customers, but if you want to rant at their voice mail system the number is 510-635-9633 or 1-800-279-4346. Probably even better is to call Gibson's customer relations number, which I think is 1-800-4GIBSON. Allen Green is the echoplex man there. They have some sort of mailing list thing which you can learn about at: http://www.gibson.com/info/listserv/gibson-custrel/ You can spam that to your heart's content. Now that I think about it, Mike Lyon, OB's general manager, provided his email address on door-x, so it can't hurt to put it here. mlyon@gibson.com Have fun, and don't tell 'em I sent you! kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Sep 19 02:55:55 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 19 01:11:46 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v3eD1-0006eZ-00; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 01:11:43 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v3eDK-0007N4-00; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 01:12:02 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 01:09:03 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Gremlins and other oddities Resent-Message-ID: <"ndsHBB.A.54G.gAQQy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/164 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 01:12:02 -0700 X-UIDL: 387b6417c7ec1f97f3662faff9fe4d05 Andre said: >Beyond that, there's a function called "loop copy" which was apparently >not finished in time for the initial shipment of the Oberheim; the slot on >the front panel reserved for this function doesn't actually do anything, >so you have to use a slightly less direct combination of commands to get >this going (although it does work flawlessly when you use it). Not only was the LoopCopy parameter not finished, we hadn't even managed to agree on how it was supposed to work! >I've also noticed that the delay mode of the unit tends to be a bit >tempramental in terms of how and where it decides to place the loop point. ?? Never heard of that problem. What do you mean? >I've talked to Kim about most of these problems, and they look to be >solved by the now-legendary Currently Unavailable Echoplex Upgrade. Kim That's the CU-EU for short.... >has also made reference (on the Torn list, I think) to a variety of other >fairly minor bugs which most of us have hopefully never noticed. (Are >there any others we should be on the lookout for, Kim?) The bugs are mostly obscure, I think, and for most uses you don't ever notice them. Things like failing to recognize midi note-offs properly, and problems with sample dumps to some samplers with weird implementations. One of the parameters (MuteMode, I think) failed to store itself properly on powerdown. I think 8ths/beat = 1 had a problem generating midi clock right. The occasional reverse pops (fairly rare, but annoying when they happen). I don't have a handy list to paste in here, and those are the noteworthy things I'm remembering. Here's some little blurb I sent to someone about it once upon a time: There are a myriad of bug fixes, numerous minor adjustments and improvements to existing functions, and some great new features as well. Some things of interest are: LoopCopy, Multiple Parameter Sets, Sysex parameter dump, real-time sysex parameter control, noise-gate threshold control, implementation of midi program change for controlling everthing with dumb footpedals, greatly improved sync capabilities, and bunches of other stuff. hope this helps, kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Sep 19 02:55:58 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 19 02:33:40 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v3fUH-0004oS-00; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 02:33:37 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v3fUZ-0000oD-00; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 02:33:55 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 06:36:20 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: FeedBack tricks Resent-Message-ID: <"o2WuS.A.er.DNRQy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/167 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 02:33:55 -0700 X-UIDL: 8785b01b1f0c1dfd3ec65e703e63e160 Kim gasped: >Constantly evolving textures and all. Of course you know >that I'm going to go on about how the echoplex does this. I've got a big >mail backlog and don't really have time so just pretend I'm saying it and >we'll move on here. [blah, blah, blah] May I help? >>> Dave Stagner said: >>> >prefer to just use its delay function....... Turn the feedback up high >>> >and start looping. At 16, you effectively have infinite repeat. As >>> >things build, you can turn the feedback down and let a loop fade, then >>> >turn it back up and add more to the loop while the older material floats >>> >in the background. This makes for a much more dynamic and rewarding >>> >looping improv, I think. On Tue, 17 Sep 1996, Ed Drake wrote:: >>> Dave- I tried it and loved it but as Jon Durant pointed out it is a bummer >>> that you can't loop it and play over it without adding what you are playing >>> to the echo. Thanks anyway because I had not thought of using the Jamman >>> like that and it does give a different approach to the looping. Kim agreed: >That is a bummer. I didn't realize the jamman couldn't do that. It's really >a very useful technique to have the feedback turned down a bit while you >continue playing. I agree more even: As said before, the point where looping really started for me. The Plex uses a 256 step value and filters it almost evey sample so you can smothly and quickly change it. I strongly suggest a pedal. In longer loops you maybe want to grow only a part of it: For example: Open +Overdub+ and reduce Feedback while opening the volume pedal so the sound you hear from the Loop will be replaced next time around by the one you fade in now. Not very difficult to imagine how it will sound. Then as your note fades, you open Feedback again and have a phase of the loop as it was before. +Replace+ is a function we have for this, but is to hard for most aplications because it chops off/on. With the FB pedal, you do it more creative and smooth. Sometimes in long loops (like 25sec) I start increasing the dynamics every turn around, rather taking back one part and then crescendo in to the full part... As it does not make sense to infinitally increase the content of the memory, we reduce automatically the FB a little while +Overdub+ is on. This prevents from the worst noises when somebody forgets +Overdub+ on. When you reduce FeedBack, **reduce loop time, too!** (Million times executed experience - how it works for me): Most music (and stories in general) has its static phase (contemplation, solo) and its dynamic phases (walking, discovering). Obviously, FB open is for the static and reduced for the dynamic phase. Since in the static phase you have time, you will multiply and increase loop time to make the loop more interesting, maybe less obvious. Then, when you enter a dynamic phase, its a drag, because changes take to long, or take a too radical reduction of FB which cuts the flow. So you reduce FB little, but also reduce loop time! If the loop is rather an educated one with a harmony sequence, built with +Multiply+, you will aply +Multiply+ by 1 or 2 when the basic harmony comes back. The loop stays on this base, maybe 4 or 8 times shorter, which gives you the chance to change it gradually and then build (use +Multiply+ again) a new harmony sequence. If the loop is rather of the anarchistic/ambient kind, you can reduce it with +Unrounded Multiply+, which is called by the RECORD following the MULTIPLY key. This way you can cut out any bit, as short as you want, mayb even aplying +Unrounded Multiply+ 2 or 3 times in a row, to really chop up the worm before the part with the heart grows again with more heads even... urgh, ahem,,,;-) Dave again: >>Someone here suggested trying to put my Vortex into the feedback loop >>of the JamMan manually, using a mixer. I tried it and it was >>interesting, but hard to control. I couldn't get a good balance >>between looping and feedback, and distorting the input on the JamMan >>is NOT pretty. >> >>I'm hoping to rewire things tonight to split the output from the >>Vortex and send it to the mixer and the JamMan separately, then mix >>the JamMan back in at the output. That way, I could control the >>JamMan's delay feedback without always sending signal into it. >>Ideally, I'd like to do this with a couple of stereo volume pedals, so >>I can control both the input to the JamMan and its output. >> Kim again: >I've been meaning to try something like this for a long time. I really want >a looper to have an effects loop in the feedback path so I can have my >loops change in some way with each pass. It occured to me some time back >that this could probably be done with two loopers (jammans or echoplexes I >suppose, and I'm sure there was a reason for why I thought I needed two to >do this rather than one, but I'm not remembering it now). The feedback path >could be set up externally and effects easily patched in. The downside is >the unintentional effect of passing the loop through A/D / D/A conversions >repeatedly. I did not try this and do not even feel like, right now. Just thinking: I think you will use this external FB path only every now and then, and keep the loop going with its internal FB. So once you set up the mixer conection with the Looper feeding the effect and the effect feeding the looper, you can use the +Replace+ function to switch to the external FB path. With +Overdub+ it will grow, which might be usefull sometimes in such a context. To load the loop, you would have to disconect the effect, either with its +bypass+ function (if it mutes the effect) or by closing the effects channel or Aux knob. Enjoy Matthias From ???@??? Thu Sep 19 02:56:02 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 19 02:33:54 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v3fUV-0004pM-00; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 02:33:51 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v3fUo-0000pb-00; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 02:34:10 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 06:36:29 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Unidentified subject! Resent-Message-ID: <"NQYiAC.A.zq.6MRQy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/165 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 02:34:10 -0700 X-UIDL: c487f3dc7bfbc12eccf8fbe1356f4720 >>>Ray Peck said: >>> >>>>I have a recording, which I made myself, of Eno discussing "It's Gonna >>>>Rain", and explaining that that's where he got the idea, which was >>>>passed on to Fripp. >>> > >>>So your recording is very interesting. Would you mind to write down the >>>dedicated part so we can post it? >> >>I'll try to get to it. Eno's said this on a number of occasions. I >>might have an audio version on-line. >> >>BTW, it's be (far) easier for me to actually put the recording up than >>to transcribe it. > >This would be nifty for the web page. Does anyone know how to put RealAudio >stuff on a web site? Better yet, does anyone want to figure it out, do >whatever it takes to put the eno file in RealAudio format, and send it to >me for uploading? I thought Shockwave was the latest sound format? Text would still be the most immediate... From ???@??? Thu Sep 19 02:56:00 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 19 02:33:42 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v3fUJ-0004oX-00; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 02:33:39 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v3fUc-0000oT-00; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 02:33:58 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 06:36:35 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: Gremlins and other oddities Resent-Message-ID: <"86TUiB.A.mr.ENRQy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/166 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 02:33:58 -0700 X-UIDL: b05a6dcf43d9ebc699c825a52dc7bf0b >Hi everybody > >I've been lurking sofar, because I'm not a musician. > >My connection to loop music and the reason why I'm on this list is, >that I wrote the software for the Echoplex Digital and the old >LoopDelay together with Matthias Grob and worked together with Kim at >Gibson [Hi Matthias, Kim I finally found time to write some email :-)]. Welcome! All fine in Zurich? >You can therefore blame most of the bugs on me. You can find him at lake Greiffensee with his huge tiny doughter on a sunday evening... Leave some bugs for me, porra! Of all found here, you only explain one: snip >Yeah, MIDI Sample Dump is very complex. snip Your last and most intense 'Plex-trip, really. Hope it serves for a lot of (greedy :->) loopers... The new version comes with the special MIDI manual he crated - I hope! Lets insist, brother Matthias From ???@??? Thu Sep 19 02:56:03 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 19 02:34:17 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v3fUs-0004qz-00; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 02:34:14 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v3fVA-0000qs-00; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 02:34:33 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 06:36:40 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Gremlins and other oddities Resent-Message-ID: <"0cFih.A.ns.PNRQy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/168 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 02:34:33 -0700 X-UIDL: adb6c2ceb4810f8147734c576a49b78c >On Tue, 17 Sep 1996, Ed Drake wrote: > >> Andre La Fosse said: >> >but there are at least a few unfortunate >> >gremlins floating about in the initial version that have caused me a few >> >headaches). >> Andre -What are some of the gremlins you are talking about? Andre starts his list: >The most problematic for me is that the reverse function has an erratic >and unpredictable tendency to introduce a popping noise at the initial >loop point, which is generally unremovable. In a transparent loop, this >is a real bummer, dude. So sorry man. Then +Reverse+ was just incredibly complicated. Now a structural change made it simpler and killed the clicks. >Beyond that, there's a function called "loop copy" which was apparently >not finished in time for the initial shipment of the Oberheim; the slot on >the front panel reserved for this function doesn't actually do anything, >so you have to use a slightly less direct combination of commands to get >this going (although it does work flawlessly when you use it). Its done now. I wonder whether you are really going to use it. As you say, with +Next-Multiply+ or +Next-Insert+ you can do the same, more flexible for my taste. >I've also noticed that the delay mode of the unit tends to be a bit >tempramental in terms of how and where it decides to place the loop point. The Start Point, you mean? Yes, it jumped around under a certain condition I do not remember. Fixed. The +Next-Next+, to keep recording over various loops, I did not implement at first, because I did not recognize its use and thought to simply stop recording would be the most intuitive. Its not easy to imagine the practical use of functions, sometimes... Andre again: >> I have a suggestion: In order to demonstrate to Oberheim just how much >> demand there is for the upgrade, perhaps we should initiate an e-mail >> campaign demanding that the upgrade be released Michael solidarizes: >excellent idea, Andre. Maybe it will stir up something at Oberheim Central. >Kim and Matthias: who do you think we should send the email to? I have some doubt: The intention is nice, thanks. But would it have the right effect? Kim? Matthias From ???@??? Thu Sep 19 02:56:05 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 19 02:49:03 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v3fj9-0005j2-00; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 02:48:59 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v3fjS-00014L-00; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 02:49:18 -0700 Date: 19 Sep 96 05:45:42 EDT From: Teed Rockwell <74164.3703@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: CU-EU Message-ID: <960919094541_74164.3703_GHQ56-2@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"F0k_7D.A.j-.8bRQy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/169 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 02:49:18 -0700 X-UIDL: 12b43b8edef7b2bd29259c7d4190fa6e Kim, does the CU-EU contain that chip that will knock 8 db of noise off the sound? Teed Rockwell? From ???@??? Thu Sep 19 02:56:06 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 19 02:51:42 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v3flj-0005rv-00; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 02:51:39 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v3fm2-00017k-00; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 02:51:58 -0700 Date: 19 Sep 96 05:45:57 EDT From: Teed Rockwell <74164.3703@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Observations from playing experience Message-ID: <960919094556_74164.3703_GHQ56-3@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"GnAQEB.A.vBB.3dRQy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/170 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 02:51:58 -0700 X-UIDL: 26a53efd8b4092d98cc64b6ab14c2ce1 Kim writes: One of the parameters (MuteMode, I think) failed to store itself properly on powerdown. I have had that experience. What happens is that it reverts to "continuous" even if you had preset it to "start". The Weird thing is: Once you call it up it says "Start", but if you shift it back and forth between the two, it actually ends up doing what it says it was already doing. (i.e. It starts from the beginning of the loop instead of cycling continuously.) Other Random observations: Don't tread hard on the footswitch if you think that function isn't working properly. You'll just break the footswitch in about six months. (I did this with the "Undo" button.) It seems to me that the Signal to Noise Ratio occasionally deteriorates if you let the machine get too hot. This could just be an illusion created by the noise becoming harder to ignore once you notice it, but I don't think so. The undo button is essentially useless without lots of extra memory, but terrific once you've got the memory. If you've built up to a certain level of layering, play lots of chords while steping on the undo button alot and when the chords die away you get you're starting loop back, ready to be build up. Playing the same pattern over and over again with the overdub button on creates a sound like a really cool digital delay. If you want to sound like an Ordinary delay unit, set the Feedback at about twelve o'clock, and keep the Overdub button on. I find it easier to work with the feedback knob than a feedback pedal. You can position the knob in a variety of diffferent ways, and remember what those positions sound like, which is not easy to do with a pedal. Also, There's usually lots of time to reach over and tweak the knob once you get a good loop going. The speed at which you move the feedback knob will effect the sound that occcurs in the loop afterwards, but I'm not sure exactly how. Any Info on that from anyone? One fun structure to work with. Create a loop, solo on it for a while until you hear some thing you like, then turn on overdub and store it. Then solo some more until you create something else you like, then store that. When it get too full, you can either 1) push the undo button several times until you get it down to size again (which removes the most recent loops.) Or 2) drop the feed back level (which fades out the earliest loops or 3) create a new loop and then jump back and forth between the two. That's all I can think of for awhile. Happy looping Teed Rockwell 74164.3703@Compuserve.com From ???@??? Thu Sep 19 03:19:32 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 19 03:18:22 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v3gBY-0000CV-00; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 03:18:20 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v3gBq-0002fW-00; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 03:18:38 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 03:14:53 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: CU-EU Resent-Message-ID: <"MdZFi.A.XZC.k2RQy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/171 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 03:18:38 -0700 X-UIDL: c6cc87ee8c25893c5ccede3d706fc16a >Kim, > >does the CU-EU contain that chip that will knock 8 db of noise off the sound? > >Teed Rockwell? I don't think so. That's a hardware issue that doesn't really relate to the software. What Teed is talking about, is a new a/d - d/a converter to replace the one Oberheim is currently using in the Echoplex. Oberheim has to replace what they have, because that part has been discontinued by Crystal semi. The replacement part costs more because it does a lot of extra stuff that is totally useless in the Echoplex. It doesn't give an 8 dB improvement in signal to noise ratio, though. A preproduction sample I evaluated did that, but the production versions only improved it by 2-3 dB. Since I'm not involved with this anymore, I really have no idea what they are deciding to do about it. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Sep 19 03:19:35 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 19 03:20:09 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v3gDF-0000Oh-00; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 03:20:05 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v3gDW-0002nc-00; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 03:20:22 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 03:16:57 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Unidentified subject! Resent-Message-ID: <"ykZeaB.A.aiC.Z4RQy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/172 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 03:20:22 -0700 X-UIDL: 0f2d29e617462957de9c028f11224481 >>>>Ray Peck said: >>>> >>>>>I have a recording, which I made myself, of Eno discussing "It's Gonna >>>>>Rain", and explaining that that's where he got the idea, which was >>>>>passed on to Fripp. >>>> >> >>>>So your recording is very interesting. Would you mind to write down the >>>>dedicated part so we can post it? >>> >>>I'll try to get to it. Eno's said this on a number of occasions. I >>>might have an audio version on-line. >>> >>>BTW, it's be (far) easier for me to actually put the recording up than >>>to transcribe it. >> >>This would be nifty for the web page. Does anyone know how to put RealAudio >>stuff on a web site? Better yet, does anyone want to figure it out, do >>whatever it takes to put the eno file in RealAudio format, and send it to >>me for uploading? > >I thought Shockwave was the latest sound format? Text would still be the >most immediate... jeez, and I work in this industry. How is anyone supposed to keep up.... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Fri Sep 20 02:47:46 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 19 07:06:54 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v3jkj-0003qz-00; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 07:06:53 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v3jOo-0002b5-00; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 06:44:14 -0700 Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 09:41:03 -0400 From: "S. Patrick Hickey" Message-Id: <199609191341.JAA08929@nielsenmedia.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Loops (no! loops?) Resent-Message-ID: <"mueJ4D.A.hZC.w3UQy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/173 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 06:44:14 -0700 X-UIDL: 40f13b1e24d6b51d60f259c4da9cbc63 USA has the audacity to have country code 1, or 001, depending on your phone system. From ???@??? Fri Sep 20 02:48:11 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 19 10:10:16 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v3mc7-0002vp-00; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 10:10:11 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v3lVW-0005aA-00; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 08:59:18 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 13:01:12 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Loops (no! loops?) Resent-Message-ID: <"E_T6hC.A.SLF.71WQy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/174 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 08:59:18 -0700 X-UIDL: 06915c6554b4046200f7d362f0c7efa9 >You can probably get one in Switzerland, since they don't require CE >approval. I think the distributer there is Holles, if I remember right. Maybe check out PARADIS, Rolf Spuler first. 0041 52 233 34 43 >Gibson's web page could probably help you find a dealer. That's >www.gibson.com. I'm sure there are phone numbers there too. Oberheim's >phone number is 510-635-9633. (add the right country code for the US, I >have no idea what that is. I couldn't figure it out when I was in europe, >either) Well, what do you imagine? While all countrys have a 2 digit number, the US prefix is a plain "1". (Did they invent the telephone or something?) From ???@??? Fri Sep 20 02:48:55 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 19 15:49:04 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v3ru2-00073J-00; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 15:49:02 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v3rLf-0001Zx-00; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 15:13:31 -0700 Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 15:10:38 -0700 (PDT) From: rpeck@PureAtria.COM (Ray Peck) Message-Id: <199609192210.PAA27079@pure.PureAtria.COM> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: More JamMan tricks Resent-Message-ID: <"eh2JSD.A.fbB.DVcQy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/175 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 15:13:31 -0700 X-UIDL: b52a90a81fe4a751189546c0f911ef1a >>> Dave- I tried it and loved it but as Jon Durant pointed out it is a bummer >>> that you can't loop it and play over it without adding what you are playing >>> to the echo. Thanks anyway because I had not thought of using the Jamman >>> like that and it does give a different approach to the looping. > >That is a bummer. I didn't realize the jamman couldn't do that. I guess maybe I don't understand the issue, since I'm not familiar with the Jamman. If the problem is that you want to play over the echo without adding to the echo, why not add a footswitch to bypass around the box? Better yet, a 1-into-2 fader, where one output goes directly to your mixer, and one goes through the jamman to the mixer? That way you could have very quiet "echos" of your solos loop along as you continued "non-loop playing". >I've been meaning to try something like this for a long time. I really want >a looper to have an effects loop in the feedback path so I can have my >loops change in some way with each pass. Ugh, they don't allow this? Not even the Echoplex? >The downside is >the unintentional effect of passing the loop through A/D / D/A conversions >repeatedly. They could supply the effects in/out as digital s/pdif, which wouldn't add much to the base cost. You could go right through an effects unit with digital in/out, and they could sell an add-on A/D D/A box for people with analogue effects that want to use this technique. From ???@??? Fri Sep 20 02:48:53 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 19 15:49:03 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v3ru0-00073J-00; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 15:49:00 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v3rSI-0001ng-00; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 15:20:22 -0700 Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 15:11:32 -0700 (PDT) From: rpeck@PureAtria.COM (Ray Peck) Message-Id: <199609192211.PAA27173@pure.PureAtria.COM> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: Unidentified subject! Resent-Message-ID: <"UqbNDC.A.EnB.-acQy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/176 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 15:20:23 -0700 X-UIDL: 21cfb7f6d3aa497af63751bc403cd928 >This would be nifty for the web page. Does anyone know how to put RealAudio >stuff on a web site? Better yet, does anyone want to figure it out, do >whatever it takes to put the eno file in RealAudio format, and send it to >me for uploading? I can digitize it and send it was, say, an AIFF or SDII file. From ???@??? Fri Sep 20 02:49:00 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 19 17:52:14 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v3tpE-0001Wa-00; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 17:52:12 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v3tpX-00064U-00; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 17:52:32 -0700 Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 17:46:13 -0700 Message-Id: <199609200046.RAA05880@barley.adnc.com> X-Sender: ambient@mail.adnc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: studio seventeen productions Subject: gremlin destruction Resent-Message-ID: <"6_PLo.A.VqF.gqeQy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/177 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 17:52:32 -0700 X-UIDL: f98685e7b9c289211628069baf820062 when i read this: ........................................................... > Andre -What are some of the gremlins you are talking about? Andre starts his list: >The most problematic for me is that the reverse function has an erratic >and unpredictable tendency to introduce a popping noise at the initial >loop point, which is generally unremovable. In a transparent loop, this >is a real bummer, dude. So sorry man. Then +Reverse+ was just incredibly complicated. Now a structural change made it simpler and killed the clicks. >Beyond that, there's a function called "loop copy" which was apparently >not finished in time for the initial shipment of the Oberheim; the slot on >the front panel reserved for this function doesn't actually do anything, >so you have to use a slightly less direct combination of commands to get >this going (although it does work flawlessly when you use it). Its done now. I wonder whether you are really going to use it. As you say, with +Next-Multiply+ or +Next-Insert+ you can do the same, more flexible for my taste. >I've also noticed that the delay mode of the unit tends to be a bit >tempramental in terms of how and where it decides to place the loop point. The Start Point, you mean? Yes, it jumped around under a certain condition I do not remember. Fixed. .................................................. ........................................................i breathed a large sigh of relief. i noticed the reverse popping when testing the unit in the store, and actually took my first unit back and got a different one that seemed quieter. but it still happens, and it really kills the value....say you spend 20 minutes making a monster loop, and then you intend to reverse it, and make a recording of it. the POP appears...and all your work is TRASHED (unless you want the pop in you recording).... the LOOP COPY problem caused me even more grief: I called Oberheim, described the problem, and they said send it in. So I did. Three weeks later I got it back (after MANY MANY phone calls). As it turned out, there was "nothing wrong" with it (so they cost me weeks of down time for no reason) because you have to use LOOP COPY the alternate way (as noted above). what a pain that method is to. I can't remember it, and if I want to do it I have to drag out my pencilled notes and relearn the whole bizarre process. START POINT: as far as I'm concerned...this has NEVER worked correctly. so: anticipating the long awaited UPGRADE........that will make this box what it should have been all along!!! d 1734516817345168173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 lead me in with a count of seventeen... (Mr. Blint, Consequences/Godley & Creme) visit: http:www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html seventeen: the ambient music page 1734516817345168173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 From ???@??? Fri Sep 20 02:49:07 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 19 23:19:48 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v3ywF-0003EV-00; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 23:19:47 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v3ywX-0005fV-00; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 23:20:05 -0700 Date: 20 Sep 96 02:16:15 EDT From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Reply from Gibson Message-ID: <960920061615_100041.247_JHB44-3@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"CLg7QC.A.eRF.IdjQy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/178 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 23:20:05 -0700 X-UIDL: c0122655e026c0feb7412bccd639dd98 hi folks, I wrote to Mike Lyon at Gibson, asking about the Echoplex Update. Here's what he replied. I'm not sure what to think of it. We'll see what happens. ---snip--------------------- Michael, Thanks for the e-mail in regards to the Echoplex. Yes you are correct, the update is close to ready and I do hope to release it soon. There are some technical issues that remain, but we are very close to a solution. Take a look at the September issue of Guitar Player, David Torn "The Loop Guru" and stay tuned to this channel for more info. ---snip-------------------- -Michael Peters (looping with the Paradis Loop Delay) http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters From ???@??? Sat Sep 21 03:20:59 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 20 04:10:26 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v43TV-0004J7-00; Fri, 20 Sep 1996 04:10:25 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v43Tp-0006og-00; Fri, 20 Sep 1996 04:10:45 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 04:07:50 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: gremlin destruction Resent-Message-ID: <"-vBPgC.A.6UG._tnQy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/179 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 04:10:45 -0700 X-UIDL: 142ea366a1c08bd77b2a9697ebac0ad1 > >........................................................i breathed a large >sigh of relief. i noticed the reverse popping when testing the unit in the >store, and actually took my first unit back and got a different one that >seemed quieter. but it still happens, and it really kills the value....say >you spend 20 minutes making a monster loop, and then you intend to reverse >it, and make a recording of it. the POP appears...and all your work is >TRASHED (unless you want the pop in you recording).... Personally, I don't have so much trouble with reverse. I'm not trying to excuse the pops, those can be annoying, but they aren't really that common. Of course my music often has elements in it that make a wee little pop seem pretty insignificant! But really, using reverse with guitars is just so damn fun that I heartily encourage everyone to play around with it and just try to live with the rather rare pop until the soft upgrade comes out. The enjoyment is easily worth the occasional pop, in my opinion. I know the boomerang has reverse functions, does the jamman? I should post some of my favorite reverse tricks. Sometime when i'm not answering mail at 4am maybe... >the LOOP COPY problem caused me even more grief: I called Oberheim, >described the problem, and they said send it in. So I did. Three weeks >later I got it back (after MANY MANY phone calls). As it turned out, there >was "nothing wrong" with it (so they cost me weeks of down time for no >reason) because you have to use LOOP COPY the alternate way (as noted >above). what a pain that method is to. I can't remember it, and if I want >to do it I have to drag out my pencilled notes and relearn the whole bizarre >process. They really amaze me sometimes. I only explained it to them like 50 times. I rather like the way loopcopy works now. To me it is quite intuitive, since it is just like using multiply, but your multiply occurs in another loop. When you think of it that way, its pretty easy to remember that the first thing you do is press NextLoop to go to another loop, then press Multiply to multiply (copy) when you go there... The only annoying thing is that SwitchQuant has to be on so that you switch loops only when you reach the end of the one you are in. That way you can press NextLoop early and have time to press something else before you switch. The LoopCopy parameter in the new soft basically makes it possible to copy without having SwitchQuant on, but the principles of its operation are similar. Its just more automatic. > >so: anticipating the long awaited UPGRADE........that will make this box >what it should have been all along!!! > yes, quite true.... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sat Sep 21 03:21:01 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 20 04:22:06 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v43eo-0004SA-00; Fri, 20 Sep 1996 04:22:06 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v43f9-0007jF-00; Fri, 20 Sep 1996 04:22:27 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 04:19:36 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: More JamMan tricks Resent-Message-ID: <"3PIL_D.A.SMH.D5nQy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/180 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 04:22:27 -0700 X-UIDL: 74883c15d083764c5d063c48ece93957 >>I've been meaning to try something like this for a long time. I really want >>a looper to have an effects loop in the feedback path so I can have my >>loops change in some way with each pass. > >Ugh, they don't allow this? Not even the Echoplex? > >>The downside is >>the unintentional effect of passing the loop through A/D / D/A conversions >>repeatedly. > >They could supply the effects in/out as digital s/pdif, which wouldn't >add much to the base cost. You could go right through an effects unit >with digital in/out, and they could sell an add-on A/D D/A box for >people with analogue effects that want to use this technique. sp/dif means two extra ic's, neither of which are very cheap, two extra connectors and rear panel space, extra board area, clock oscillator, and various passive components. On a low volume product, (anything in the music industry is low volume) this can mean adding anywhere from $40 to $80 to the list price of the product. Most effects boxes don't use digital audio, those that do are mostly high-end and use aes/ebu (sp/dif is a consumer format), which is more expensive. Big hit for something that 99% of the current market will never use. See how hard this stuff is? Its a wonder anything gets made.... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sat Sep 21 03:22:26 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 20 15:37:38 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v4ECW-0000cU-00; Fri, 20 Sep 1996 15:37:36 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v4ECp-0000UC-00; Fri, 20 Sep 1996 15:37:55 -0700 Message-Id: <199609202238.PAA04578@scv1.apple.com> Subject: Re: Vortex queries Date: Fri, 20 Sep 96 15:41:05 -0000 x-sender: attix@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Tom Attix* To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"wDLaY.A.3a.RyxQy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/187 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 15:37:55 -0700 X-UIDL: 3f3959919bf9ded94c575023d515cebe >Also, the knob is expression pedal controllable so that's real nice too. >But I'm not sure what kind of expression pedal I should get or what's >available. Suggestions anyone? If you're looking for something relatively cheap, I bought a Rolls volume/expression at Guitar Center for right around $50. The action isn't great, but it definitely does the job. If you haven't played thru your Vortex with a pedal yet, it's way cool. It opens it up even more. I have to say, I've only had the Vortex for a week but it's without a doubt the most fun I've had with my Stick since I got it. -Tom Attix _______________________________________________ attix@apple.com _______________________________________________ "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." -Uncle Duke From ???@??? Sat Sep 21 03:22:24 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 20 15:28:44 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v4E3v-0000Kj-00; Fri, 20 Sep 1996 15:28:43 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v4E4B-0000Bd-00; Fri, 20 Sep 1996 15:28:59 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: ToddM@LaserMaster.Com Organization: LaserMaster Corporation Date: 20 Sep 1996 17:25:37CST6CDT Subject: My Own LooPage Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail/Mac v2.0 Message-ID: <1C5B904534@laserm.lmt.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"o3lsv.A.NI.XpxQy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/186 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 15:28:59 -0700 X-UIDL: 40f0030291ca6e9d2811c37826f6a65e I have my own loop page set up at: http://www.waste.org/~crash/index.html Click on the little [LOOP] and you'll be taken directly to it. Some of the other points at my site, specifically [CRASH] and [ASB] already have sound samples of my stuff you can download, but the loopsite is too new so stay tuned. Let me know what you think. It's got Kim's waycool site as a major point of interest as well as a couple of others (Studio Seventeen among others). I'll be using it as a way to communicate deep mojo knowledge of the Vortex as well as any other hints and info I get, also I'll be talking about the type of rig I have, and hopefully will be another site on the internet devoted to this kind of thing. I'm not going to be going into the history of looping and the pioneers except on a low level - Kim's page will be the Encyclopedia Looptanica, the mother of all loops, that sort of thing - mine will just be a practical application guide for certain types of gear, how to make it work strangely, what's worked for me and stuff that interests me. Check it out if you have the time! From ???@??? Sat Sep 21 03:21:38 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 20 10:36:35 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v49VC-0007jv-00; Fri, 20 Sep 1996 10:36:34 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v49VH-0000Cw-00; Fri, 20 Sep 1996 10:36:39 -0700 Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 10:31:37 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Vortex queries Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"758RZC.A.RI.sWtQy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/181 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 10:36:39 -0700 X-UIDL: 3a4e9ef76ae93d2a879ec42ce52db905 WARNING: This is a post regarding the Lexicon Vortex, and is not 100% loop-related. Those easily offended by non-topicality are advised to delete now or suffer the consequences! Anyway, I'm posting here since there's been much discussion regarding Vortex on the list as of late. I snatched one up at the legendary Guitar Center "Trying Not To Lose Our Shirts Over This Fringe Technology" $150 sale. (When I went in to pick it up, the guy at the counter grabbed one from atop a very large stack of Vortexes and quipped, "So how many do you want to pick up today?") At any rate, I'm not entirely conviced of the unit's possibilities. It's very nice sounding, but a lot of the distinctions between different effects seem to be along the order of different sorts of delay tap patterns and so forth -- pretty subtle things that would sound interesting in a headphone studio mix, but not so useful in a more performance-oriented application. There are one or two wonderfully hideous things I've run across (ring-mod and envelope-detune), but I'm wondering just how deep the thing is. So if any Vortex users would care to share some editing/operating tips,. I'd be most grateful. At the moment, I'm not sure if I'll hang on to it or take advantage of GC's return policy. Even at this cheap of a price, I don't know if it's worth it for two or three cool effects. So please offer some hints if you have any, preferably by e-mail so as to avoid taking up more bandwidth with non-topical material. Thanks very much, and sorry for the non-loop content, --Andre From ???@??? Sat Sep 21 03:21:45 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 20 11:29:33 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v4AKR-0001fh-00; Fri, 20 Sep 1996 11:29:31 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v4AKi-0001fC-00; Fri, 20 Sep 1996 11:29:48 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960920183302.006f74ac@xenon.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@xenon.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 11:33:02 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Vortex queries Resent-Message-ID: <"8of0FB.A.XfB.gIuQy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/182 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 11:29:49 -0700 X-UIDL: b4e7541c3a14259cba48bc4c8fab6bda At 10:31 AM 9/20/96 -0700, you wrote: >WARNING: This is a post regarding the Lexicon Vortex, and is not 100% >loop-related. Those easily offended by non-topicality are advised to >delete now or suffer the consequences! > [vortex questions deleted] >So please offer some hints if you have any, preferably by e-mail so as to >avoid taking up more bandwidth with non-topical material. > >Thanks very much, and sorry for the non-loop content, > >--Andre Well, I was sort of intrigued by the vortex discussions myself, so if anyone wants to post it here I wouldn't mind. To me it is relevent to looping since I often loop heavily effected sounds..... kim ___________________________________ Kim Flint OEM Engineering Chromatic Research 408-752-9284 From ???@??? Sat Sep 21 03:22:03 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 20 13:06:29 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v4BqG-00050u-00; Fri, 20 Sep 1996 13:06:28 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v4Bqa-00047s-00; Fri, 20 Sep 1996 13:06:48 -0700 Date: Fri, 20 Sep 96 14:59:37 CST From: "Todd Madson" Message-Id: <9608208432.AA843257285@ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, ToddM@lasermaster.com Subject: Re: Vortex queries Resent-Message-ID: <"Jjsi3C.A.gzD.3jvQy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/183 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 13:06:49 -0700 X-UIDL: f616604f6f19dce3359a9fa284c115d0 Kim: I'll put a transcription of the looping specific stuff from the manual addendum that only I seem to have here on Monday, in the meantime I'll give you some general VORTEX thoughts which may or may not help since I've only owned the unit for a bit more than a month. The looping specific stuff, especially in the manual addendum are rather complex and specific where my stuff tends to be more general. Andre: > WARNING: This is a post regarding the Lexicon Vortex, and is not 100% > loop-related. Those easily offended by non-topicality are advised to > delete now or suffer the consequences! The device loops in at least two of the programs, I'd say it's on topic. 1946 ms is nearly two seconds of recording time, David Torn said it was a good place to start so it's good enough for me. > Anyway, I'm posting here since there's been much discussion regarding > Vortex on the list as of late. I snatched one up at the legendary Guitar > Center "Trying Not To Lose Our Shirts Over This Fringe Technology" $150 > sale. (When I went in to pick it up, the guy at the counter grabbed one > from atop a very large stack of Vortexes and quipped, "So how many do you > want to pick up today?") Heh. In a way I wished I'd picked up another since I'll probably shelve the SGE I have (well, I may keep it just for the compression, EQ and harmonic exciter but it's heavy [to carry] and I'm not sure I want to keep it around just for that - half the fun of the Vortex is the dynamic control [like a fine tube amp] and a compressor just quashes that kind of fun, plus the Vortex audio quality is significantly better than that of the SGE, putting the SGE at the front end just "coldifies" the sound [sucks the warmth out]). > At any rate, I'm not entirely conviced of the unit's possibilities. It's > very nice sounding, but a lot of the distinctions between different > effects seem to be along the order of different sorts of delay tap > patterns and so forth -- pretty subtle things that would sound interesting > in a headphone studio mix, but not so useful in a more performance-oriented > application. Use the fractal, duo and shadow (shadow is more like a long tape echo patch than anything else) programs for looping porpoises: the fractal B program is especially interesting in that if you play a broken chord (or sound the individual notes that comprise a chord individually) you'll find that it starts feeding on itself and the notes sound faster and faster until you have a chord that comprises the notes. It's a neat effect for human voice and guitar. I've used duo to create pseudo King Crimson discipline interlocking guitar parts. Dynamic control can be a help and hindrance here. Experiment. Drums with this can be kind of disorienting but cool with the tap tempo. If you have a drum machine, you need the tap tempo feature to give you on the fly polyrhythms that do not sound robotic. Since I don't have an echoplex yet, this is my main looper for now. I'll probably use it as a treatment inducer for loops I create on the big boy when I get one. (Does anyone have a phone number and/or contact person for Nadine's music and do they ship? A $500 echoplex I could deal with.) How do I control this Vortex thing anyway? Well, the first thing you need to do is use the knob on your left (I forget how its labeled as it's not here in front of me, it's the one directly to the right of the input level control) and adjust your mix and echo effects levels properly for looping, which will vary if you're using it instrument- to-mixer-to-amp or in the effects loop of a mixer - the manual has a bit regarding this. The way the unit comes stock where your instrument is very prominent in the mix and the effects can be too subtle... I've mentioned that I want a live, swirling whirligig frenzy of sound when I play, so you might want to up the ante with regards to the echo level in the mix. There's also a mix parameter that allows you to adjust the instrument/effect ratio. These have been key for me to making more prominently noticeable loops, or to have a instrument prominently audible on top of a loop. Also, the knob is expression pedal controllable so that's real nice too. But I'm not sure what kind of expression pedal I should get or what's available. Suggestions anyone? But I should talk about the dynamic control: As an example, if you use the choir-B program and strum and open E chord and then silence your guitar strings, you get a heavily effected afterimage with the delays - you probably want to make that swirly effectoid stuff come forward somewhat. If you hit the strings harder, the effected image becomes louder. The dynamic control is the key here. When looped, the dynamic control becomes a very interesting aspect of this. > There are one or two wonderfully hideous things I've run across > (ring-mod and envelope-detune), but I'm wondering just how deep > the thing is. It looks like a petri dish that happens to be a very deep ocean when you jump into it. I'll show you on Monday. > So if any Vortex users would care to share some editing/operating tips,. > I'd be most grateful. At the moment, I'm not sure if I'll hang on to it > or take advantage of GC's return policy. Even at this cheap of a price, I > don't know if it's worth it for two or three cool effects. I'll be forwarding more practical and useful info on Monday... > So please offer some hints if you have any, preferably by e-mail so as to > avoid taking up more bandwidth with non-topical material. It's on topic, trust me! > Thanks very much, and sorry for the non-loop content, It's on topic! > --Andre Todd Madson http://www.waste.org/~crash/index.html Received: from spica.LaserMaster.Com by ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com (SMTPLINK V2.10.08) ; Fri, 20 Sep 96 12:40:57 CST Return-Path: Received: from mouse.slip.net (mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102]) by spica.LaserMaster.Com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA26822 for ; Fri, 20 Sep 1996 12:41:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v49Ug-0000BU-00; Fri, 20 Sep 1996 10:36:02 -0700 Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 10:31:37 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Vortex queries Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"758RZC.A.RI.sWtQy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/181 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: ToddM@lasermaster.com Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 10:36:02 -0700 From ???@??? Sat Sep 21 03:22:18 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 20 14:59:03 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v4DbC-0000gZ-00; Fri, 20 Sep 1996 14:59:02 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v4DbR-0007B8-00; Fri, 20 Sep 1996 14:59:17 -0700 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9609201756.ZM76301@marcus.its.rpi.edu> Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 17:56:10 -0400 In-Reply-To: The Man Himself "Vortex queries" (Sep 20, 10:38am) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 07feb95) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Vortex queries Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"SDnJIB.A.pqG.ZNxQy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/184 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 14:59:17 -0700 X-UIDL: 215a247dfc5307e7ed2591bbd200b886 hi all, quick comments on the vortex... I tried it out when they were introduced and decided it didn't do enough of a great thing and left it alone. You're right about the headphone mix... it sounds great and effective(put that in quotes!) in a lab setting... but much of that gets lost in live situ's. so, with that said comes the next stage. I spent 4 days in a brooklyn recording studio with lots of hi end gear and etc. Started working on a tune that had acoustic guitars atop reggae bass and socha drums with a guitar ambience pad. tow of the acoustics were 12 strings(one being ebowed) and the other was an old martin six string. in the mixing things were very subtle and smooth but with very small testi-cleez. so as a last resort we patched in the lonesome and barely used vortex(they probably got a blowout deal on it too) and began tweeking and found a few surprises in almost reverby non linear and detuned areas. it's like the thing is almost this and almost a that, but not much of a real person. But, I did use it to do a rotovibe/leslie/hammondy thing to one of the 12 strings and it sound fairly smooth and natural. For 150 it's cool. I'll wait till I find one in a pawn shop for 35-50 clams and then pickit up. Just push the function and start jerkin' o the knob (no MAX programming skills needed). It's a neat box, but the jamman is more valuable to me and it's not satisfying either at the mommentum. I found that when you start tweeking, the interaction between functions was interesting. and the AB neat is a quick way to do things that I've been doing with 2-3 processors. So, use it(or you can give it to me anad I'll find a use for it). LEXI shoulda just put vortex, jamman, and one of the reverbs and sold that. I woulda bought it. collier oh, PS David (torn meister) is playing at the world famous troy music hall in TROY, NY on OCT. 11(I'll double check). So, we need to get some people over here to be part of the family! David is taking a slot that DAvid Lindley had to skip. Therefore the advertisement might not be strong enough for DT. also, if someone would like to come, we might be able to hook them up with a freeplace to crash if necessary. nothing like a welcome floor(believe me) From ???@??? Sat Sep 21 03:22:20 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 20 14:59:56 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v4Dc3-0000hl-00; Fri, 20 Sep 1996 14:59:55 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v4DcN-0007EB-00; Fri, 20 Sep 1996 15:00:15 -0700 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9609201757.ZM72557@marcus.its.rpi.edu> Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 17:57:42 -0400 In-Reply-To: Kim Flint "Re: Vortex queries" (Sep 20, 11:30am) References: <2.2.32.19960920183302.006f74ac@xenon.chromatic.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 07feb95) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Vortex queries Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"sqpk4.A.stG.ROxQy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/185 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 15:00:15 -0700 X-UIDL: ed23b923f22b33beb833445c16a5c7d5 kim, what's OEM engineering/chromatic research? a new project? collier From ???@??? Sat Sep 21 03:22:30 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 20 16:01:45 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v4EZt-0001OX-00; Fri, 20 Sep 1996 16:01:45 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v4EaE-0001Ay-00; Fri, 20 Sep 1996 16:02:06 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960920230620.006f5a64@xenon.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@xenon.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 16:06:20 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Vortex queries Resent-Message-ID: <"H3MYBD.A.hDB.uIyQy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/188 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 16:02:06 -0700 X-UIDL: dc7e97ef7545cfb069e97fde3537009f At 05:57 PM 9/20/96 -0400, you wrote: >kim, >what's OEM engineering/chromatic research? a new project? >collier > That's the Silly-con Valley company I now work for. check www.chromatic.com for more info. Next generation multi-media stuff.... kim ___________________________________ Kim Flint OEM Engineering Chromatic Research 408-752-9284 From ???@??? Sat Sep 21 03:22:32 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 20 18:07:35 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v4GXf-0005wB-00; Fri, 20 Sep 1996 18:07:35 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v4GY1-0004Ev-00; Fri, 20 Sep 1996 18:07:57 -0700 Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 18:04:13 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Vortex queries (and animal cruelty) In-Reply-To: <9608208432.AA843257285@ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"i7idwB.A.x8D.5-zQy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/189 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 18:07:57 -0700 X-UIDL: b539e8d187c08789b89caf76b5c20431 WOAH! Many thanks to all for contributing some recommendations on the Vortex, especially Todd Madson. I do have one question for right now, though: > Use the fractal, duo and shadow (shadow is more like a long tape echo patch > than anything else) programs for looping porpoises: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Wouldn't this constitute unusual cruelty to aquatic animals? Is PETA going to raid the Lexicon lab in protest? Just wondering... --Andre From ???@??? Sat Sep 21 03:22:34 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 20 20:43:41 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v4Iyi-00025y-00; Fri, 20 Sep 1996 20:43:40 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v4Iz2-0007ME-00; Fri, 20 Sep 1996 20:44:00 -0700 Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 20:37:26 -0700 Message-Id: <199609210337.UAA14447@barley.adnc.com> X-Sender: ambient@mail.adnc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====================_843277209==_" To: Ed Drake From: studio seventeen productions Subject: Re: Looping Setup Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Attachments: C:\MYDOCU~1\SETUP.TXT; Resent-Message-ID: <"NmUUUB.A.G4G.SR2Qy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/190 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 20:44:00 -0700 X-UIDL: 219bf6f506301a4ca63a2610d83b0915 At 10:58 PM 9/20/96 +0000, you wrote: >In a recent post on Looper's Delight, dave at studio >seventeen said : > >>in fact I made some major major changes to how I do > >>things after I was fortunate > >>enough to speak with John Sinks (RF's guitar tech). > > >dave- What is/was your setup and how did you change it after >speaking to John? >I would be interested to know how Fripp sets his stuff up in >more detail. There was some info in the article with King >Crimson last year in Guitar Player but not much detail. >Any help would be appreciated,as I am a fellow looper and >I'm always looking for new ways to hook up things and get >new and different sounds out of my gear. Thanks! > Best Regards Ed Drake > > Ed- (and ALL at L-D!) This was a general remark that has aroused a lot of curiosity. Unfortunately, this event occurred about two years ago, and I did indeed have the opportunity to talk with John at great length about the the "current" Fripp setup ( I was actually at a recording session RF was doing for a Midge Ure album, at a studio in a house in LA-just overdubbing two songs...while this went on, I questioned Sinks at great length and he was most forthcoming). This whole experience was such a shock to the senses (as you can imagine) that I at this point have no SPECIFIC recall of the actual setup. Basically I described my (primitive) set up to John, he told me in great detail about how RF's was set up, and I tried to glean whatever I could that might help my own setup. But the difference between Rf's and my setup are so ENORMOUS really nothing could bridge the gap. The signal path was one of the most complex I've ever heard described...and if you'd asked me the next day I doubt if I could have told you what it was. At that time he was using two of the TC electronics delays and a slew of other gear. Common elements in our setups: the only one I know of is the midi pedal I use (GROUND CONTROL), which was suggested to me by Bill Forth (former Guitar Craft registrar and RF right hand man) and is probably one of the best buys I've ever made. Far superior (in Bill's opinion) to the much-lauded Ultrafoot. You can create totally custom patches involving up to eight midi devices per patch. Other that that, the only similiarity between Rf and me is that we both loop. I understand that now he has FOUR of the TC electronics delays, and I've been told there is an Oberheim Digital Pro in his setup (I'm not sure about this now...) I choose the Oberheim for two reasons: 1) I used my partner's JamMan for a couple weeks, and it was great but limited. 2) The TC units are RIDICULOUSLY EXPENSIVE. Anyway, all I can say is that AFTER I saw RF's rig, talked to John, and recovered from shock, I came home and took a hard look at my setup. Some things went immediately. Signal paths changed...but nothing specific i could tell you now after all this time. And anyway, knowing how much my setup has changed...just imagine how Rf's must have during the same time!!!!!! not to mention the fact that he can AFFORD high-tech gear a bit better than I can :) !!! Now I'm going to search my hard drive for a document I prepared for a Finnish gentleman who visited our webpage and wanted to know how we created our music. This is a bit out of date, the significant change being that I have a fourth input device beyond e-bow/guitar, acoustic guitar, and synth which is a simple Discman. I find that by inserting 20 or 30 seconds of sound from some obscure CD, and then looping ebow, guitar or synth over it...well it adds to the texture of things. Anyway, hopefully you'll find attached "SETUP.TXT" which denotes a fairly recent description of my looping setup... BTW: fave input discs for the Discman: soundtrack to the TV series THE PRISONER (Vol. I). (this disc has yielded some amazing loops!) KOREAN drummers SAMULNORI. bits and pieces from obscure pop records (like MARTIN NEWELL). ALBONINI's "Adagio". Bits of classical music. Bits of Ali Akbar Khan...or Ravi Shankar...or Alla Rakha. Or Vietnamese pop music (instrumentals). anything that i can just take a SNIPPET of, not feel too guilty about "stealing" and then add to/enhance until it becomes unique and hopefully musical and/or beautiful.... sorry I can't provide any concrete detail about the RF setup...as it was, Sinks described the whole thing to me (taking perhaps 20 MINUTES) and then a bit later said: "hang on...I've left a bit out! BEFORE THE signal gets to such-and-such a stage, it's split and then goes in parallel to... etc. etc. even the guy that sets it up can't remember...so perhaps you can forgive my less than detailed account! thanks for listening! dave at studio seventeen Attachment converted: Macintosh HD:SETUP.TXT (TEXT/MSWD) (0000BE16) 1734516817345168173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 lead me in with a count of seventeen... (Mr. Blint, Consequences/Godley & Creme) visit: http:www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html seventeen: the ambient music page 1734516817345168173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 From ???@??? Sat Sep 21 03:22:43 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 20 22:52:14 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v4Kz8-0004uJ-00; Fri, 20 Sep 1996 22:52:14 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v4KzU-0001tD-00; Fri, 20 Sep 1996 22:52:36 -0700 Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 01:50:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: ejmd@pop.erols.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: ejmd@erols.com (Ed Drake) Subject: Vortex queries Resent-Message-ID: <"f4yzsB.A._uB.xJ4Qy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/191 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 22:52:36 -0700 X-UIDL: 473086cea306132a4497c7e46f6b1645 Ed Drake said: >>> Dave- I tried it and loved it but as Jon Durant pointed out it is a bummer >>> that you can't loop it and play over it without adding what you are playing >>> to the echo. Thanks anyway because I had not thought of using the Jamman >>> like that and it does give a different approach to the looping. > >That is a bummer. I didn't realize the jamman couldn't do that. Ray Peck posted >I guess maybe I don't understand the issue, since I'm not familiar >with the Jamman. If the problem is that you want to play over the >echo without adding to the echo, why not add a footswitch to bypass >around the box? Better yet, a 1-into-2 fader, where one output goes >directly to your mixer, and one goes through the jamman to the mixer? >That way you could have very quiet "echos" of your solos loop along as >you continued "non-loop playing". I guess what I meant was that you couldn't control it on the fly thru footswitch as a built in feature of Jam Man . I just turn down the effect send on my Mackie on the guitar channel and jam along. Right now I have my Jam Man on one of the effect sends on the Mackie 1202 . How are you other guys hooking up your systems ? Andre said: >So if any Vortex users would care to share some editing/operating tips,. >I'd be most grateful. At the moment, I'm not sure if I'll hang on to it >or take advantage of GC's return policy. Even at this cheap of a price, I >don't know if it's worth it for two or three cool effects. One way I use the Vortex is for rhythmic looping with the nifty little feature of each delay line can be set to subdivide the tapped pulse evenly to a different number such as one delay 2 ,the other 3, a nice simple polyrhythm to generate a rhythmic loop improv, which can then be looped by Jamman or (Echoplex), and soloed over. You can set the echoes to bounce around in really weird subdivisions too ( each delay can be set from 1-64).The max delay time for one echo is 923ms , but you set a tap interval which Vortex then keeps dividing in half until it comes up with a valid delay time.Try presets 9- Deja vu and 13 -Shadow. Its tricky to recreate some of the rhythmic things you come up with. Preset #10 Choir is a great starting place to tweak a really nice Chorus /Delay sound (one of the best I've heard).I really love the warm, lush sound it has. Lexicon recomends using Vortex inline and adjusting the dry/effects mix in Vortex but have any of you Vortexers tried using your vortex through the effects loop on mixer? Guitar Player Magazine generally liked Vortex but they did say it probably sounded best in stereo and unless you have a stereo rig it might not sound as good live. To me one of the best things about its' sound is its use of the stereo space. Kim Flint said: >I know the boomerang has reverse functions, does the jamman? I should post >some of my favorite reverse tricks. Sometime when i'm not answering mail at >4am maybe... It has reverse only in the sample mode.There are 3 Modes available on the Jam Man : Echo,Sample,Loop(2 types Punch in and Phrased Loops) you can only access each Mode by reaching up and turning a knob (not by Midi) on the front,and you can not switch between these modes on fly without losing what's in your loop or sample or echo. Within each mode, you have variables to play with, which you can access via Midi. I noticed the other day that I tend to make loops that generally fall into one of 2 categories : 1 rhythmic loops and 2 ambient spacey loops . I'm sure I 'm oversimplifiying some . One of the compositional games I'll play sometimes is to pick a set of pitches, say a simple A minor Pentatonic scale (A C D E G ) and create a cloud of harmony (ambient) or a riff (rhythmic) and then solo or find a melodic idea to play over it. Of course the harmony can get even weirder and the rhythms as well . Anybody else got any strategies you use when looping? Some one wanted Nadines's phone number which is 213-464-7550.The owner told me they do ship to you. Post me privately on what you find out as I haven't talked to them again yet. It's getting late for me so that's all for now Ed Drake From ???@??? Sat Sep 21 03:22:46 1996 >From kflint Sat Sep 21 02:10:19 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v4O4o-0000nd-00; Sat, 21 Sep 1996 02:10:18 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v4O5C-0004cL-00; Sat, 21 Sep 1996 02:10:42 -0700 Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 11:08:54 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Others way to loop??? Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"QOsaQD.A.GTE.ID7Qy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/192 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 02:10:42 -0700 X-UIDL: 74bb8f5559e3d584a9bad154db89b8cf I think Kim was wondering at the golden era of the beginning of these list page, what kind of devices we used, what kind of music we liked, using repetive stufff and others patterning thingies. You all know, since I bother you with that for a while, taht main delay is 1.8 sec of my SGE mach2 (Duh!- a la simpson) that I have no (ARRFGHH) jamman nor echoplax, partly due to astrnomic, not to say cosmic prices here in France (wich happens to be nonetheless my beloved country) So I had to find another way. Currently, I use my old Cubase.2 and my Roland Gr-50 guitar Synth to drive via midi delay the various synths (gr-50 itself, KorgM1, Korg DSS-1 old sampler, e-max and a funny Yamaha TB-01). That allow to have upt to a full note of delay (I mean this note during 4 time we call "ronde" in french). Since it is tempo dependant with le lowest tempo (30) I have around 6 to 7 seconds of delay. Ok that cannot compete with either the Jamdude nor the Echoplex, but since i've nothing else, like Eno said once, from limitation comes creativity (I try to convince myself). In another way I used a long time ago samplers to because when you repeat the sample on itself, you get tiny loops, and unless the technology of your machine is Roland's differential interpolation, then changing the note you play (i.e.transposing) changes the duration of this tiny loop. That is an other way. Then you could use multitracj recorder (I've an Akai 12 MG 14D) to add loops played without delay, I mean you just keep repeating a phrase thet seems relevant to you. It allows to treat independantly by mixing each phrase as far as effects and dynamics and so on are concerned. That is interesting to. Thoise of you with mulitracker should try. That is different to rely on a delay unit to loop for yourself, and then having to play everything. Since you never play exactly the same way, it gives a very differently flavoured loop. More organic, but less etheral, I I can say. I hope to have a CD soon Including some of this things, among other stuff (mainly synths, Chapmann Stick and numerous guitars with my favorite tunings, in 5th and one in minor thirds). Who knows... Olivier Malhomme From ???@??? Sat Sep 21 18:16:24 1996 >From kflint Sat Sep 21 14:24:00 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v4ZWp-0000ey-00; Sat, 21 Sep 1996 14:23:59 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v4ZXC-0003Xl-00; Sat, 21 Sep 1996 14:24:22 -0700 Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 14:22:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: finley@ecst.csuchico.edu (Matthew F. McCabe) Subject: Re: Vortex queries Resent-Message-ID: <"ilb6MC.A.wSD.XzFRy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/193 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 14:24:22 -0700 X-UIDL: c0393717691afb5d44dc8f3192053ea3 Greetings! Figured I'd add my 2 cents on the Vortex....which just arrived last night! :-) My initial response was on of disappointment. "Does this thing do anything?" I soon realized that it helps to have it patched into the mixer correctly!!! With a nice ambient loop looping in the JamMan I set about spinning the dials on the Vortex to see what it could do. Two hours later I concluded that the Vortex is a nifty little box (can't beat it for a 150 bucks). My favorite patch is the Deja Vu (b)....which is a looper. When used in conjunction with the JamMan (set in Echo mode) you can get some really cool loops happening that are always changing. Nice. The Reflexion 1 patch (when tweaked) is cool too. Someone asked where in the signal chain we place our looper of choice and various processors. Here's what I'm doing.... My Digitech GSP-2101 pre-amp feeds my Rane SM-82 mixer. The right effect send of the Rane feeds the JamMan (which is routed to channels 1 and 2) and the left effect send feeds the Vortex (outputs routed to the effects return). In this way the Vortex can process both the guitar and the loop simultaneously.....or one and not the other. Anyway....back to looping..... Matt ------------------------------------------------------------ King Never http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~finley/kingnever.html ------------------------------------------------------------ Matthew F. McCabe Able Cain King Never Marathon Records From ???@??? Sat Sep 21 18:16:28 1996 >From kflint Sat Sep 21 15:12:11 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v4aHS-0001Kf-00; Sat, 21 Sep 1996 15:12:10 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v4aHo-0004CT-00; Sat, 21 Sep 1996 15:12:32 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 19:15:29 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: More JamMan tricks Resent-Message-ID: <"H3qqoB.A.x5D.ogGRy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/194 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 15:12:32 -0700 X-UIDL: 5a0b39c0b35f5f4a172f43544223984d >And speaking of studios, I finally put one together, thanks to the >motivation from this list. I realized how much I miss looping on a >regular basis, and set a little table up in the basement, (hopefully) >safe from the children. But they like playing my guitars whenever >they get the chance... Daddy always leaves them in such pretty >tunings! > >-dave Great! Up the wall? Rolf, my partner at PARADIS guitars had a son growing up in the middle of all the guitars he was building, repairing, exposing - a lot of special, new instruments, and the kid newer did any harm. I guess he understood... Matthias From ???@??? Sat Sep 21 18:16:30 1996 >From kflint Sat Sep 21 15:13:04 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v4aIJ-0001MY-00; Sat, 21 Sep 1996 15:13:03 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v4aIc-0004Fy-00; Sat, 21 Sep 1996 15:13:22 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 19:16:00 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: More JamMan tricks Resent-Message-ID: <"yCgX3B.A.t7D.JhGRy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/195 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 15:13:22 -0700 X-UIDL: 2e14c2d176c8d217c7d544fed82c775a >>>> Dave- I tried it and loved it but as Jon Durant pointed out it is a bummer >>>> that you can't loop it and play over it without adding what you are playing >>>> to the echo. Thanks anyway because I had not thought of using the Jamman >>>> like that and it does give a different approach to the looping. >> >>That is a bummer. I didn't realize the jamman couldn't do that. > >I guess maybe I don't understand the issue, since I'm not familiar >with the Jamman. If the problem is that you want to play over the >echo without adding to the echo, why not add a footswitch to bypass >around the box? Better yet, a 1-into-2 fader, where one output goes >directly to your mixer, and one goes through the jamman to the mixer? >That way you could have very quiet "echos" of your solos loop along as >you continued "non-loop playing". This is how we did it with the Roland 3000, tc 2290, PCM42, and then the dedicated machine came... To have a signal only looped I did not find usefull. I sometimes used a volume pedal for the input of the loop so I could play a note and fade it into the loop so it would come back without attack. This is nice, because you can play a clear, attacky melody and "digest" its fundamental note into a smooth loop. But then again, the more options you have, the more you have to control... >>I've been meaning to try something like this for a long time. I really want >>a looper to have an effects loop in the feedback path so I can have my >>loops change in some way with each pass. >Ugh, they don't allow this? Not even the Echoplex? Ahem, well, ... >>The downside is >>the unintentional effect of passing the loop through A/D / D/A conversions >>repeatedly. > >They could supply the effects in/out as digital s/pdif, which wouldn't >add much to the base cost. You could go right through an effects unit >with digital in/out, and they could sell an add-on A/D D/A box for >people with analogue effects that want to use this technique. ... as you recognized, the feedback is an internal digital thing, and a analog FB loop would be costy, but a digital one - something to think about. The A/D D/A box to it, I do not see would be commercially possible. The loop machine we dream of, ofcourse would contain its own effects and manners to control them in a way it makes sense. I the 'Plex sells decently, this will be possible. Thanks Matthias From ???@??? Sat Sep 21 18:16:31 1996 >From kflint Sat Sep 21 15:13:14 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v4aIT-0001N4-00; Sat, 21 Sep 1996 15:13:13 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v4aIq-0004Gd-00; Sat, 21 Sep 1996 15:13:36 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 19:16:08 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: gremlin destruction Resent-Message-ID: <"-N42tD.A.X8D.QhGRy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/196 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 15:13:36 -0700 X-UIDL: 8be598e87f3cd81afefd3c405808d4d1 Kim recomends: >Personally, I don't have so much trouble with reverse. I'm not trying to >excuse the pops, those can be annoying, but they aren't really that common. >Of course my music often has elements in it that make a wee little pop seem >pretty insignificant! But really, using reverse with guitars is just so >damn fun that I heartily encourage everyone to play around with it and just >try to live with the rather rare pop until the soft upgrade comes out. The >enjoyment is easily worth the occasional pop, in my opinion. Me again personally, I cannot do anything with reverse (maybe for this, I did not give it sufficiant atention) - how different we play... Thats nice! By the way: Today I visited a percussion/woodwhind player (Bira Reis) with a LOOP delay and he showed me a tape he made and I was blown away. I felt that he discovered some new sound, also because he is in the brasilian roots and he never had listened to Fripp and the other old masters. >>so: anticipating the long awaited UPGRADE........that will make this box >>what it should have been all along!!! >> >yes, quite true.... It makes me cry... Matthias From ???@??? Sat Sep 21 18:42:53 1996 >From kflint Sat Sep 21 18:37:50 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v4dUT-00054m-00; Sat, 21 Sep 1996 18:37:49 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v4dUp-0006lf-00; Sat, 21 Sep 1996 18:38:11 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 18:35:28 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: eno audio clip Resent-Message-ID: <"ho8-d.A.mUG.WhJRy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/197 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 18:38:11 -0700 X-UIDL: bd988fd045572e50e2044635113c0753 Ray and I said: >>This would be nifty for the web page. Does anyone know how to put RealAudio >>stuff on a web site? Better yet, does anyone want to figure it out, do >>whatever it takes to put the eno file in RealAudio format, and send it to >>me for uploading? > >I can digitize it and send it was, say, an AIFF or SDII file. Ok, send it as aiff. Tell me how big it is first...probably best to ftp it if its big. Can you somehow set yourself up as an ftp server? kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Sep 22 00:17:47 1996 >From kflint Sat Sep 21 22:52:23 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v4hSp-0001DF-00; Sat, 21 Sep 1996 22:52:23 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v4hTB-0002vK-00; Sat, 21 Sep 1996 22:52:45 -0700 Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 22:50:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609220550.WAA28571@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: Unidentified subject! Resent-Message-ID: <"aneq8.A.6tC.MQNRy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/198 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 22:52:45 -0700 X-UIDL: 7e4b976bf54d92f04b65b6dc885e3659 >>This would be nifty for the web page. Does anyone know how to put RealAudio >>stuff on a web site? Better yet, does anyone want to figure it out, do >>whatever it takes to put the eno file in RealAudio format, and send it to >>me for uploading? > >I thought Shockwave was the latest sound format? Text would still be the >most immediate... Yes, but the format is proprietary. You need expensive Macromedia software to encode the format. From ???@??? Sun Sep 22 00:17:48 1996 >From kflint Sun Sep 22 00:16:54 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v4imb-0002KH-00; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 00:16:54 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v4imx-0003rS-00; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 00:17:15 -0700 Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 00:15:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609220715.AAA01266@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: Vortex queries Resent-Message-ID: <"-4tE8.A.KmD.bfORy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/199 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 00:17:15 -0700 X-UIDL: cbe3e3138077d1ce079d71bf847cdb85 >So please offer some hints if you have any, preferably by e-mail so as to >avoid taking up more bandwidth with non-topical material. I just got one too (a couple hours ago). Please copy me on any discussion. From ???@??? Mon Sep 23 01:03:14 1996 >From kflint Sun Sep 22 21:12:39 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v52Nq-0004aN-00; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 21:12:38 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v52OB-0007Ug-00; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 21:12:59 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 01:15:58 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Others way to loop??? Resent-Message-ID: <"i3ka_B.A.VAH.X4gRy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/200 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 21:12:59 -0700 X-UIDL: af57fe796dd1eeebca65b019e8dbfd5d >Then you could use multitracj recorder (I've an Akai 12 MG 14D) to add >loops played without delay, I mean you just keep repeating a phrase thet >seems relevant to you. >It allows to treat independantly by mixing each phrase as far as effects >and dynamics and so on are concerned. That is interesting to. >Thoise of you with mulitracker should try. That is different to rely on a >delay >unit to loop for yourself, and then having to play everything. Since you >never play exactly the same way, it gives a very differently flavoured >loop. More organic, but less etheral, I I can say. This is interesting, isn't it? I do not like drum machines for its stupid repetitivity, but I like loops for it. As you say, it turns sound more etheral, but still not mechanic. I also felt this with the written loop compositions like Reich or Glass (minimal music). While the electronic loop bring me peace (usualy), the "human" loop brings the atmosphere of work of the poor guys who had to play the same stuff forever... So what is the magic of the loop? Matthias From ???@??? Mon Sep 23 01:03:19 1996 >From kflint Sun Sep 22 21:56:30 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v534H-0005Py-00; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 21:56:29 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v534d-0000KJ-00; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 21:56:51 -0700 Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 23:55:21 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Vortex queries In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"a90UH.A.lR.ghhRy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/201 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 21:56:51 -0700 X-UIDL: c5e1beea92db0f889015b569b1c50c0b On Fri, 20 Sep 1996, The Man Himself wrote: > WARNING: This is a post regarding the Lexicon Vortex, and is not 100% > loop-related. Those easily offended by non-topicality are advised to > delete now or suffer the consequences! I think we're a long way from the topicops griping about deviations from the norm. Ghod, I HOPE so! > At any rate, I'm not entirely conviced of the unit's possibilities. It's > very nice sounding, but a lot of the distinctions between different > effects seem to be along the order of different sorts of delay tap > patterns and so forth -- pretty subtle things that would sound interesting > in a headphone studio mix, but not so useful in a more > performance-oriented application. There are one or two wonderfully > hideous things I've run across (ring-mod and envelope-detune), but I'm > wondering just how deep the thing is. It is definitely more a studio than a live instrument. This is no big deal for me. I hardly ever play live, and mostly monitor through headphones anyway. The subtleties are generally lost live, especially if you play in mono (yuk!). The user interface pretty much sucks for live playing, too. It's a shame it doesn't have MIDI support. But those subtleties are its strength in the studio. Personally, I can get lost in the abstraction of interacting delays, panning, and spatialization effects, and I'm sure I'm not alone here. :} > So if any Vortex users would care to share some editing/operating tips,. > I'd be most grateful. At the moment, I'm not sure if I'll hang on to it > or take advantage of GC's return policy. Even at this cheap of a price, I > don't know if it's worth it for two or three cool effects. Heck, it's worth it just for clean delays and chorus effects. If you have a typical ART/Digitech/Zoom multi-effect, try A/B'ing it with the Vortex. Lexicon's sounds are lush and warm, and don't sterilize your sound. But really, don't judge the Vortex by a few hour's fiddling. It's a VERY deep box, and like all deep instruments, it can't be picked up in a few hours of play. Keep working with it, and learn to appreciate its strengths and weaknesses. By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com */ -Charles Fort /* http://www.leepfrog.com/~dstagner */ From ???@??? Mon Sep 23 01:03:21 1996 >From kflint Sun Sep 22 23:21:14 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v54OH-00072Q-00; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 23:21:13 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v54Od-0001Y8-00; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 23:21:35 -0700 Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 23:17:55 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Walls of the Vortex Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"dX1eWC.A.DbB.AxiRy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/202 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 23:21:35 -0700 X-UIDL: 0e8271ed4755b78d4b700dc29c916134 Thanks again to everyone who's contributed advice on the Vortex. After having spent a couple of evenings putzing with the programs in a clinical headphone environment, and about five hour's worth of live ensemble playing this afternoon with the Vortex in a stereo guitar rig, I can safely say that this is one of the *wierdest* boxes I've ever run across. It's almost like the bastard child of an Eventide Ultra-Harmonizer and a Delta-Lab Effectron II. There's a certain analogish funkiness to the sound and its responsiveness remeniscent of the latter (at certain settings you can even hear the pitch-mods hissing in the absence of a singal), while the morphing options and delays place it in a more modern context. Very odd. No wonder Guitar Center has to practically give them away. I must say that the presets don't even hint at the possibilities of the unit. Using the presets as a jumping-off point, I was able to come up with some extremely bizarre (and highly effective) patches that elicited no shortage of raised eyebrows from the other musicians I tested it with today; the factory presets may be designed for subtle studio orientation, but there are some obscenely blatant and eye-popping possibilities for live performance, particularly in a stereo rig with wide separation. One thing that surprised me was the way you can *play* the box in a very musical way. I spent much time in rehearsal today setting up a loop and then tweaking the Vortex for a minute or two. Some of the tones that came out of the amp were not only hair-raising, but more importantly, they were dynamic and animated -- they made the loops sound less like loops and more like a constantly evolving texture. I may be something of an anomaly among loopists in that I tend to like loops that don't just replay the exact sound over and over, but which constantly mutate in unpredictable ways. I've been wanting a processor that would do that for a while now, and the Vortex fits the bill perfectly. One other thing that I was taken aback by is how "familiar" some of the sounds in there are. Feeding one ambient loop through a chorus-and-delay patch, I suddenly found myself thinking, "God, this sounds *exactly* like _A Blessing Of Tears_!" Other patches bore a strong resemblance to _Polytown_-era Torn. This (along with other considerations) has raised some odd philosophical issues for me, but that's another post altogether. At the current Guitar Center rate of $150, it's an absolute steal -- for about what you'd pay for an average stompbox you get an utterly bizarre thing that seems pathologically incapable of functioning in any predictable way. (And yes, Olivier, I'll send you the phone number and address for Guitar Center very soon.) I think that's enough gushing for now. Needless to say, I'ma gonna keep that box... Loop on, --Andre From ???@??? Mon Sep 23 01:03:24 1996 >From kflint Mon Sep 23 00:42:15 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v55ef-0000d2-00; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 00:42:14 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v55f4-0002Ta-00; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 00:42:38 -0700 Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 00:40:46 -0700 (MST) From: Dan Howarth To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: loops in a new light In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"sWuZzD.A.aSC.j7jRy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/203 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 00:42:38 -0700 X-UIDL: 77073ace0ae93bd69193dafa59f8d2d4 hey all, this being my first post to kim's marvelous world of the loopy, i'd like to recommend to y'all something i've come across: 'eberhard weber : pendulum' it's a great disc on the ECM label, number 1518. weber is better known for his side-man work as the bassist for jan garbarek (and others, i suppose). he plays a six string electric upright (helluva tone! it's that silky smooth sound that warms you to sleep - the 'walking on air' tony levin thing). anyhow, the pendulum disc is weber's curiosity with loops/overdubs and solo performance in action. excerpts from the liner notes... 'solo pieces for single instruments are actually not my favorite music. i have always preferred orchestral sounds. strangely enough, i came across the double bass, of all things, that awkward instrument which, according to conventional understanding, can produce only dark, low tones.' 'obviously the first thing was to drag the instrument itself out of that murky cellar; to make it as easy to play as possible so it could serve as a solo instrument...' 'a desire to put all my musical ambitions and my function as a bass player under one hat made me enter the world of the loner. however in my case playing alone does not mean sending individual notes meaningfully into space. basically, there is nothing wrong with it, but who wants to spend a whole evening listening to individual tones, deeply fraught with meaning? i'd rather make music with the help of certain aids, that permit me to carry on a kind of dialogue with myself and liberate me from the isolation of a solo performance - at least acoustically.' 'the discovery of the echo unit was a turning point for me. being able to store sounds, tones, rhythms, and bass lines quite spontaneously during a live concert, and to replay them at will gives me almost unlimited exploratory pleasure. this is fundamentally different from using prerecorded tapes, because you can give free rein to your spontaneous creation.' ---- he continues to describe his previous album, titled 'orchestra', which i don't have but am searching for, and the album pendulum. basically, pendulum could have been an album of overdubbed bass tracks. he mentions that he's taken quite a lot of time and liberty in composing the disc's nine tracks through the echo unit, meaning that if a certain loop needed extra time to execute, he'd take quite a while to do it right. so, it's not an album of spontaneity, (sp?) but one of composition through the use of loops. and, while we're on the subject of loops, his uses of them are admirable. the bass isn't incredibly varied in tones; he doesn't use any effects except reverb and possible a thickening chorus (but it could be the natural tone of the bass - it's great, whatever it is!), but he does use a bow to some interesting degrees. so, he uses the looping concept to establish backgrounds, lines, percussive noises, and chords, and then runs several different melodies over the top of it all. theoretically, it could have just as well been a sixteen track production of bass overdubs played one at a time... it sounds that good. i don't know what unit he's using, but it's probably the echoplex. i highly recommend it to all interested in the bass (whether for tone or for technique or for style) and/or loops. **************************************************************** ** Dan Howarth, History/Music, Unversity of Arizona, Tucson. ** ** http://www.u.arizona.edu/~howarth (under construction) ** **************************************************************** From ???@??? Mon Sep 23 10:00:28 1996 >From kflint Mon Sep 23 09:05:17 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v5DVT-0004N5-00; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 09:05:15 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v5DVZ-0005lr-00; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 09:05:21 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: ToddM@LaserMaster.Com Organization: LaserMaster Corporation Date: 23 Sep 1996 11:02:22CST6CDT Subject: Deep Mojo Vortex Knowledge Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail/Mac v2.0 Message-ID: <5DF9F45017@laserm.lmt.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"PJonP.A.6XF.RTrRy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/208 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 09:05:21 -0700 X-UIDL: 9e47b0a5450ba5a3331c52dd1a0b442a Here's something for all you loopologists out there. (By the way, the Vortex loops in STEREO, short though those loops may be! Think on that and be dismayed!) ... Here's an excerpt from the Vortex Manual Addendum: Vortex...it's a looping sampler! Deja Vu B is a looping effect. In the present, the envelope is used to create an overdub looper. Here's how to create a loop sampler that can be controlled with the A/B switch. Save a copy of Deja Vu B in both the A and B locations of any register pair. For this example, we will use Register 3A and 3B. Select the preset Deja Vu B. Push and hold the Store button. Turn the Preset Knob until the display reads 03. While still holding the store button, push the A/B button so the display LED is on A. Now release the store button. Since you are storing the same effect in both locations, you can simply push and hold the Store button and push the A/B button to select B. Deja Vu B is now stored in both Register 3A and 3B. In Register 3A, turn the Parameter knob to envelope and turn the value knob until the display shows 01. Turn the parameter knob to morph and turn the value knob until the display shows 64. Press store. In register 3B, turn the Parameter knob to envelope and turn the value knob until the display shows 01. Turn the parameter knob to morph and turn the value knob until the display shows 64. Turn the parameter kob to feedback 1 and turn the value knob until the display shows 01. Turn the parameter knob to echo fx lvl and turn the value knob until the display shows 01. Press store. You're all set to go! Use the A/B switch (front panel or footswitch) to turn the sampler's record function on and off. When A is selected, the sampler is recording - the input passes through to the output unchanged. When B is selected, the sampler plays an infinite loop of whatever was previously recorded. The size of the loop is determined by the tap. While the loop is playing, the input is passed through the Vortex so you can play on top of the loop. Have fun! From ???@??? Mon Sep 23 10:00:09 1996 >From kflint Mon Sep 23 03:30:29 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v58HU-0006zH-00; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 03:30:28 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v58Hp-00064M-00; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 03:30:49 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 03:27:47 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: loops in a new light Resent-Message-ID: <"LPdlkD.A.4nF.hamRy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/204 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 03:30:49 -0700 X-UIDL: b1fefaafcc35baa03c3a22293e967049 Dan wrote: >this being my first post to kim's marvelous world of the loopy, i'd >like to recommend to y'all something i've come across: > >'eberhard weber : pendulum' > >it's a great disc on the ECM label, number 1518. weber is better known for >his side-man work as the bassist for jan garbarek (and others, i suppose). >he plays a six string electric upright (helluva tone! it's that silky >smooth sound that warms you to sleep - the 'walking on air' tony levin >thing). >anyhow, the pendulum disc is weber's curiosity with loops/overdubs and >solo performance in action. > [stuff deleted] >and, while we're on the subject of loops, his uses of them are admirable. >the bass isn't incredibly varied in tones; he doesn't use any effects >except reverb and possible a thickening chorus (but it could be the >natural tone of the bass - it's great, whatever it is!), but he does use a >bow to some interesting degrees. >so, he uses the looping concept to establish backgrounds, lines, >percussive noises, and chords, and then runs several different melodies >over the top of it all. > >theoretically, it could have just as well been a sixteen track production >of bass overdubs played one at a time... it sounds that good. i don't know >what unit he's using, but it's probably the echoplex. > >i highly recommend it to all interested in the bass (whether for tone or >for technique or for style) and/or loops. > cool review....reminded me that the day before I resigned from Gibson I spent a rather pleasent day at Bob Weir's home studio demoing and teaching the Echoplex to Rob Wasserman. He also plays a 6 string fretless/upright electric bass, custom built by Ned Steinberger. Awesome player. It was really cool to hear such an excellent musician take to looping. Only took him a couple of tries to get some really great loops going. And his tone was just so marvelous. I imagine it will show on his next recordings, something to listen for. I know he's using it in performances, because in a recent concert review of a Rat Dog (band w/ Weir and Wasserman) performance in our local excuse for a newspaper, the SF Chronicle, a paragraph was devoted to a solo bit Wasserman did. Don't remember exactly what was said, something along the lines of "unusual but interesting." That can only mean looping! Of course most of the review was about the fact that various members of the Grateful Dead played together that night for the first time since Jerry died blah blah blah. In the photo, behind the smiling faces of Bob, Mickey and whoever the hell else is left from the Dead, was Wasserman's rig with a blurry yet distinguishable echoplex..... And that was the only pang of regret I had about resigning......ah well. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Mon Sep 23 10:00:11 1996 >From kflint Mon Sep 23 05:17:24 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v59wy-0001MK-00; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 05:17:24 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v59xK-0003Pn-00; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 05:17:46 -0700 Date: 23 Sep 96 08:14:20 EDT From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: Walls of the Vortex Message-ID: <960923121420_74074.1316_GHQ66-3@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"davRQD.A.rLD.D_nRy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/205 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 05:17:46 -0700 X-UIDL: 024861a031f0cb3083c6208e27e6f395 Hi Andre- (and all the rest of you loopologists) Glad to hear you've seen the light with Vortex. I've been slow in responding, but it seems that there's a bunch of people on this list who actually "got" the box. If a single dealer had people working for them who got it, the box might have sold. Vortex was a major black eye for Lexicon, because it was so badly misunderstood. My favorite experience was the day I walked into a dealer in Nashville (I didn't tell them who I was) and asked for a demo of Vortex. I knew they had been trained less than 2 weeks prior, so I figured that it might be interesting. I asked what it was, I had seen some ads, but couldn't quite get a handle on it, etc. The response was: "it's a trick reverb". (There are no reverb algorithms in the box. Just delays.) >There's a certain analogish funkiness to the >sound and its responsiveness remeniscent of the latter (at certain >settings you can even hear the pitch-mods hissing in the absence of a >singal), while the morphing options and delays place it in a more modern >context. This was *exactly* the intent of the box. Some of the effects were modeled after analog effects--tape delays, vintage tremolo, etc. But then we weirded them out. While the presets were being developed, the project manager kept calling me downstairs to hear some new bizzarre sound and say, can you do something with this? (which invariably I could, though nobody would want to hear it!!!). In the end, though, we settled mostly on generally useful sounds (choir, atmosphere, orbits) with a coupla weird ones to freak people out (bleen, fractal). Some critical pieces of the equation: 1:The Expression Pedal is the key to unlocking this box. (We always used the Roland EV-5) Once you start working with it, it opens up all kinds of things. For example, you can do simple, useful things like swelling in echoes after a phrase, or even bringing the whole effect in from a pedal. Or you can morph in real time. Which brings up point 2: Morphing can occur between ANY two effects, so you're not limited to morphing between the preset A/B pairs. Try setting up a register pair of Fractal and Bleen and assigning the pedal to morph. Hold down a note (e-bow is great for this) and morph. It's whippin cool. 3: When using a pedal to morph, you can stop anywhere along the way. I happen to know that Torn's primary Vortex sounds are in between points from a couple of tweezed effects. He watches til he gets to the magic 41 (or whatever it is) and that's his sound. 4: There's so much to do in editing, you never have to feel restricted by the presets. Every one can be as weird or normal as you want. And you can do both, and morph between them as you need. Andre, since I know some of your work, I can say with assuredness that you're going to have tons o'fun with this box. I'm glad there are others on the list who agree... Later, Jon Durant From ???@??? Tue Sep 24 00:50:02 1996 >From kflint Mon Sep 23 11:25:15 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v5Fgw-0000TG-00; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 11:25:14 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v5FhK-0000J2-00; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 11:25:38 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: ToddM@LaserMaster.Com Organization: LaserMaster Corporation Date: 23 Sep 1996 13:21:36CST6CDT Subject: Vortex Loops Using Deja Vu B Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail/Mac v2.0 Message-ID: <604C1B2C91@laserm.lmt.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"8jX6TD.A.LO.kWtRy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/210 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 11:25:38 -0700 X-UIDL: 85016de593912b4d3835814dde8fccbd Ever have one of those experiences where one of your loops takes on a life of its own and becomes this THING that sounds like it was put together by decisions you guided, but is now its own THING?!?!? Saturday I started doing a loop based on single notes of a guitar arpeggio. Then I started adding the added notes an octave below the root. Then I added notes two octaves above the root just to add a smooth texture. All of a sudden I had this very animated, interesting loop. I just kept listening and listening and was amazed. Sometime this happens, but not typically this amazing - I was like "this should be on an album or something.." I put my instrument down and just sat and listened. For a long time. I walked off into the next room and my wife was saying "I really like that ..." so we just left it going. My wife and I had some errands to do, instead of shutting the Vortex off, I shut everything else off but the looper and came back about two hours or so later. When we came back it was still going...I figured if it was still interesting that maybe it was worth recording. I checked it out again to see if I still liked it and did. I figured it was time to really mess with it. I then plugged my cheazo swell flanger pedal into the effects loop of my 4-track's mixer, then added the Boss DD-3 pedal after that set to maxdelay (800ms) and about 90% regeneration and added to it and mixed it about 50-60% to the original signal. I had the most amazing animated texture going......I was like "sheeeesh! I need to get this recorded before it goes away..." shoved a blank tape into the deck and started recording until the tape ran out, all the while neat little variations on the main loop were occurring at the molecular level no doubt. I'll probably add some sparse synth or guitar bits to it, but it's amazing how this technology can take something as mundane as a simple chord and make it this eerie thing of beauty. Now I'm really hooked on this loop thing. Let's just say the Vortex turns out to be the best $150 I ever spent in terms of "best inexpensive musical addition"..now I have to get some more stuff to make bigger loops. Todd Madson PressMate Product Specialist LaserMaster Big Color Technical Support Corporate Web Site: http://www.lasermaster.com/ Personal W3 Site: http://www.waste.org/~crash/index.html Personal e-mail: crash@waste.org From ???@??? Mon Sep 23 10:00:20 1996 >From kflint Mon Sep 23 07:03:39 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v5Bbm-0002Nq-00; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 07:03:38 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v5Bc6-0004G9-00; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 07:03:58 -0700 Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 10:07:42 -0400 From: cwb@platinum.com (Clark Battle) Message-Id: <199609231407.KAA21248@octopus.ab.platinum.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Vortex queries X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"irK-5C.A.a-D.sipRy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/206 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 07:03:58 -0700 X-UIDL: a456783714b573050552f441d58bc353 RE: Torn at Troy. My guess is that much of your audience will be from RPI. Its probably a good idea to post ads on bulletin boards up there. There are probably quite a few fans there. Do you know if he's playing around Philly sometime? Clark From ???@??? Mon Sep 23 10:00:24 1996 >From kflint Mon Sep 23 07:51:36 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v5CMB-0002yK-00; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 07:51:35 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v5CMa-0004nk-00; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 07:52:00 -0700 Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 10:55:26 -0400 From: cwb@platinum.com (Clark Battle) Message-Id: <199609231455.KAA21261@octopus.ab.platinum.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Walls of the Vortex X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"tpPsM.A.xeE.hPqRy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/207 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 07:52:00 -0700 X-UIDL: f9f7e915170212c945ed623daea13499 So how can i get in contact with the Guitar center? Phone number? Where are they? Clark From ???@??? Tue Sep 24 00:49:59 1996 >From kflint Mon Sep 23 10:27:09 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v5Emh-0006mO-00; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 10:27:07 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v5En5-00074Z-00; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 10:27:31 -0700 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9609231325.ZM4172@hawk.vlsc.rpi.edu> Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 13:25:21 -0400 In-Reply-To: cwb@platinum.com (Clark Battle) "Re: Vortex queries" (Sep 23, 7:04am) References: <199609231407.KAA21248@octopus.ab.platinum.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Vortex queries Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"xHtimD.A.gmG.6gsRy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/209 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 10:27:31 -0700 X-UIDL: 0d9ad50f7dcafe535cd5ccc1afd26a56 On Sep 23, 7:04am, Clark Battle wrote: > RE: Torn at Troy. > > My guess is that much of your audience will be from > RPI. Its probably a good idea to post ads on bulletin > boards up there. There are probably quite a few fans > there. Do you know if he's playing around Philly sometime? > > Clark > >-- End of excerpt from Clark Battle This gig at the Troy Musical Hall was a David Lindley gig (and it turns out to be a blessing for iEAR(integrated electronic arts at rensselaer poly) Don't know if he's on his way to philly cheez. Does anyone have an address for Tornschedulingphenomena? iEAR has a program called EAPS(electronic artist performance series) that I'm lucky enough to be a part of. We had Mark Dresser recently, Larry Austin last week and the list go's. if any of you folks are in the area you'd be welcome just drop me a line. there are many future hopeful artists collier ps: my rig includes a modified DEP-5, jamman, rockman chorus delay for feedback delay triggers and stereo sep for the effects returns on a marshall acoustic amp... along with custom multi output guitars and gr-1, sansamps, wahs valumes etc. I'm not entirely happy with the marshall except that it travels easily. anyone using portable stereo multi-input beautifully clean amplification? If I don't find one I'll do an independant study in electrical engineering and design something. also, there is a plastics dept. and acoustical research here. my main goal is pure sound and portablility. From ???@??? Tue Sep 24 00:50:28 1996 >From kflint Mon Sep 23 15:28:49 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v5JUe-0004rw-00; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 15:28:48 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v5JUy-0004li-00; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 15:29:08 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: ToddM@LaserMaster.Com Organization: LaserMaster Corporation Date: 23 Sep 1996 17:26:49CST6CDT Subject: More Loopy Stuff. Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail/Mac v2.0 Message-ID: <64625F25D9@laserm.lmt.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"yMCdXD.A.VcE._7wRy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/215 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 15:29:08 -0700 X-UIDL: fb8ff19eb8e31f9221e7e39ad37bfa6d Here's some more stuff from the Lexicon Applications Notes for Vortex. I've also added these to my homepage at http://www.waste.org/~crash/index.html and select [LOOP]. For the sick and twisted: Vortex also provides some very outside effects. Bleen B and Fractal B are completely outrageous. Bleen B is an echo diving into ring modulation. Play a melodic line and listen to how the effect takes it over. Fractal B is a looping echo that devours itself. Play a melodic line through the effect, and as the echo continues, the notes stack up to form a chord. This pair also makes for an amazing morph. Set the two effects up as a register pair. Hold down a chord or single note (E-Bows are great for this) and morph between the two! Also try experimenting with Deja Vu A and B for Techno looping effects. One great trick is to use Deja Vu B as a looper. An expression pedal is very helpful here, though not necessary. Assign the expression pedal to adjust the envelope. Then, with the pedal in the Up position you can capture a phrase for infinite looping. By pushing the pedal all the way down, you can play over the top without adding to the loop. In the middle you can add music at different levels. This configuration can be saved in a register so that the pedal is assigned within the register. -- Monitoring Systems / Speakers... My own system: as far as monitor speakers go, for live performance I use a Roland JC-120 Jazz Chorus amp for my guitar in stereo. It's used more as a personal PA monitor than an actual amp, with my preamps giving me much of my final sound. For studio applications, I use a JVC stereo integrated amplifier with some bargain basement stereo speakers that I got for far cheaper than can be believed which gives me a very clean sound. I also have within that monitoring system a Barcus Berry Sonic Maximizer which is applied to final mixes. I really should diagram this out, but it's in constant change so... Todd Madson PressMate Product Specialist LaserMaster Big Color Technical Support Corporate Web Site: http://www.lasermaster.com/ Personal W3 Site: http://www.waste.org/~crash/index.html Personal e-mail: crash@waste.org From ???@??? Tue Sep 24 00:50:06 1996 >From kflint Mon Sep 23 12:06:06 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v5GKT-0001Da-00; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 12:06:05 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v5GKr-00012f-00; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 12:06:29 -0700 Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 15:08:31 -0400 From: cwb@platinum.com (Clark Battle) Message-Id: <199609231908.PAA21412@octopus.ab.platinum.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: simple loop idea X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Bhld-D.A.W7.M9tRy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/211 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 12:06:29 -0700 X-UIDL: 653be2bc63276ea837b25b29963b154e I dont have a looper (yet) but here's a neat idea. Send the output of the looping device of your choice out to a pitch shifter pedal. That way you can transpose entire loops into new keys easily. An intelligent harmonizer would be best but im sure a Digitech Whammy pedal would work just fine. Simple but effective. Clark From ???@??? Tue Sep 24 00:50:08 1996 >From kflint Mon Sep 23 12:27:32 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v5GfD-0001ao-00; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 12:27:31 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v5Gfa-0001Rj-00; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 12:27:54 -0700 Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 15:30:31 -0400 From: cwb@platinum.com (Clark Battle) Message-Id: <199609231930.PAA21419@octopus.ab.platinum.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: simple loop idea 2 X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"U3lZND.A.FUB.2RuRy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/212 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 12:27:54 -0700 X-UIDL: ae5391170c04621dd3de37f5798d913e Back when i had a 2 sec looper my favorite thing to do was to build impossibly fast chordal passages with guitar loops. I would input one chord at a time (sometimes one note at a time) and stagger them so that they were very close together. Id have to practice the timing of each chord so that it would be recorded in the loop accurately. When the loop was finished id be left with this 2 second impossible harmonic onslaught of 16 to 32 stacatto chords. Each chord may or may not be even playable on guitar since some chords took multiple passes to record. The trick was getting the end of the passage to resolve into the beginning so that it sounded musical in the loop. Big Fun. Clark PS: The next trick is to learn to solo over a 32nd note chordal passage! Yeah right. Allan? From ???@??? Tue Sep 24 00:50:18 1996 >From kflint Mon Sep 23 13:46:47 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v5Htu-00031x-00; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 13:46:46 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v5HuG-00033Z-00; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 13:47:08 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 17:48:45 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: speakers Resent-Message-ID: <"evXooD.A.g0C.PcvRy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/213 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 13:47:08 -0700 X-UIDL: 43fd76e11d8416833c77e4857d1f2d40 collier wrote > >ps: my rig includes a modified DEP-5, jamman, rockman chorus delay for >feedback delay triggers and stereo sep for the effects returns on a marshall >acoustic amp... along with custom multi output guitars and gr-1, sansamps, >wahs valumes etc. >I'm not entirely happy with the marshall except that it travels easily. >anyone using portable stereo multi-input beautifully clean amplification? >If I don't find one I'll do an independant study in electrical engineering >and design something. also, there is a plastics dept. and acoustical research >here. >my main goal is pure sound and portablility. Even for electic guitar, certainly for accoustic instruments, I recommend to use studio monitors. They will give you enough sound for the stage (unless you make really noisy music), serve you at home and allways will have a cleaner sound than any "professional" speaker system, giving only little less efficiancy. The only problem may be transport, but my 10 years old Tannoy Little Red are still working perfectly, and with all the scratches still look nicer than the heavy duty plastic corner metall grid "live" speakers. I use them on all the gigs, and on many of them even as PA for up to 300 people! Sure, my music is soft, but sometimes I explode, and see people beeing overwhelmed... When you loop, the complexity of the sound grows, and with it, the necessity for a system without distortion. The loved guitar amp, that sound good for a solo, suddenly becomes uggly, when you loop over it. Look for the clean sound Matthias From ???@??? Tue Sep 24 00:50:20 1996 >From kflint Mon Sep 23 14:02:52 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v5I9T-0003Hy-00; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 14:02:51 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v5I9q-0003Nl-00; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 14:03:14 -0700 Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 16:01:33 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: speakers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"nWvkw.A.xID.QrvRy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/214 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 14:03:14 -0700 X-UIDL: e4577b269220b84b7999d8fc1082b51c I agree with Matthias. Forget using guitar amplifiers completely, even dedicated acoustic amps. The speakers are inherently limited, and the preamp sections are INTENDED to add coloration. I'd say use a high-power stereo amp and studio monitors, with enough oomph to provide whatever volume you need. Use good speaker emulators like the SansAmp if you want that electric guitar speaker sound. If you need more volume than a studio monitor system can put out, you should be using a PA anyway. :} Assuming you're using a mixer, you can use it with the monitors to track your own sound, then send your mixer outputs to the PA for everyone else to listen to. This is good, because sometimes when looping, you don't want the audience to hear the next bit you're preparing. At least I wouldn't. :} By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com */ -Charles Fort /* http://www.leepfrog.com/~dstagner */ From ???@??? Tue Sep 24 00:50:39 1996 >From kflint Mon Sep 23 17:21:58 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v5LG9-0000I2-00; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 17:21:57 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v5LGS-00073Y-00; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 17:22:16 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 21:22:46 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: speakers Resent-Message-ID: <"RI48w.A.6kG.8lyRy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/217 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 17:22:16 -0700 X-UIDL: 4d492ecdffa3c8fbedfb80818c0d4d2a >Assuming you're using a mixer, you can use it with the monitors to >track your own sound, then send your mixer outputs to the PA for >everyone else to listen to. This is good, because sometimes when >looping, you don't want the audience to hear the next bit you're >preparing. At least I wouldn't. :} I forgot to mention that, using studio monitors, you can always record and reproduce your recordings anywhere. I visit sometimes someone with my rack and give a concert on their Hifi system and record it on their tape deck. See how they are amazed. And if I had to carry speakers, I would end up not playing there. You can use headphones and hear the same - I mean there is just one sound and you are always used to what comes out. - the compatibility of flatness. I wrote a sheet called "New Musical Concept" in '88, when I was in Rio, and I think its happening about now... How about puting it on the page, Kim? You have it? From ???@??? Tue Sep 24 00:50:38 1996 >From kflint Mon Sep 23 17:21:13 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v5LFQ-00007K-00; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 17:21:12 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.55 #3) id E0v5LFj-00071K-00; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 17:21:32 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 21:24:08 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Unidentified subject! Resent-Message-ID: <"AaXD8B.A.GjG.WlyRy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/216 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 17:21:32 -0700 X-UIDL: 62abfc5a874384f70b0ac1c4e00cd217 >>>This would be nifty for the web page. Does anyone know how to put RealAudio >>>stuff on a web site? Better yet, does anyone want to figure it out, do >>>whatever it takes to put the eno file in RealAudio format, and send it to >>>me for uploading? >> >>I thought Shockwave was the latest sound format? Text would still be the >>most immediate... > >Yes, but the format is proprietary. You need expensive Macromedia >software to encode the format. Their SoundEdit does it for cheap, and they say it sounds much better than RealAudio... Could it be worth the investment of the like 300 bucks (less, if bought together with DECK), since we are going to offer a lot of sound samples, I hope :) ? See http://www.macromedia.com From ???@??? Tue Sep 24 00:50:42 1996 >From kflint Mon Sep 23 23:57:45 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v5RRA-0006tL-00; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 23:57:44 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v5RRX-0004qm-00; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 23:58:07 -0700 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9609240256.ZM5919@hawk.vlsc.rpi.edu> Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 02:56:42 -0400 In-Reply-To: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) "speakers" (Sep 23, 1:48pm) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: speakers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"blhIMD.A.1hE.QZ4Ry"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/218 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 23:58:07 -0700 X-UIDL: 22b88e5ea34b651a0e2d8219d57a39e0 >, but my 10 years old Tannoy Little Red > are still working perfectly, we have several pairs of tannoy 6.5's and 8 (pbm) are these similar? I find them muddy, but I have used my pair of EV sentry 100's for special occasions. are the tannoy little reds 10" speakers or? > Look for the clean sound(matthias) yes! I used to carry around EV 1502er's(15"&horn) and a crown ps400.. but it was too much weight From ???@??? Tue Sep 24 00:50:44 1996 >From kflint Tue Sep 24 00:05:21 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v5RYX-0006zb-00; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 00:05:21 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v5RYu-0004y9-00; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 00:05:44 -0700 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9609240304.ZM5929@hawk.vlsc.rpi.edu> Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 03:04:35 -0400 In-Reply-To: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) "Re: Unidentified subject!" (Sep 23, 5:22pm) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Unidentified subject! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"pwxPMD.A.PpE.lg4Ry"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/219 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 00:05:44 -0700 X-UIDL: d0eb3422a87eb5517971396651f283e3 hey ya'll I've got access to soundedit 16, deck II, Protools, sounddesigner II, audiosculpt, session and just about everything else in beta and otherwise at the iEAR studios. I could pitch in within reason. tell me what size, format, etc. collier From ???@??? Tue Sep 24 00:50:45 1996 >From kflint Tue Sep 24 00:11:36 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v5Rea-000760-00; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 00:11:36 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v5Rex-000544-00; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 00:11:59 -0700 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9609240310.ZM5941@hawk.vlsc.rpi.edu> Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 03:10:52 -0400 In-Reply-To: Mail Delivery Subsystem "Returned mail: Unable to deliver mail" (Sep 24, 1:24am) References: <9609240624.AB09562@gateway2.platinum.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, Mail Delivery Subsystem Subject: clark and others Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"i-3Wh.A.MvE.dm4Ry"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/220 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 00:11:59 -0700 X-UIDL: 5f468255dabb6d978c8ded173badc413 clark, I'm an iEAR MFA. there are rpi folks everywhere! so, you guys have me reinterested in the vortex.! yes... so I may have to buy one also. just when I thought I could keep my rig small... yes small. the going rate is 150? should I hold out for a plex? also, are there any amp designers/builders among us? I'd spoken with matthias about this before. collier From ???@??? Tue Sep 24 23:20:15 1996 >From kflint Tue Sep 24 08:21:26 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v5ZIb-000284-00; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 08:21:25 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v5ZIa-0007Qb-00; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 08:21:24 -0700 Message-Id: <199609241521.IAA13298@scv1.apple.com> Subject: Re: clark and others Date: Tue, 24 Sep 96 08:24:53 -0000 x-sender: attix@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Tom Attix* To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"vepZGC.A.c8G.uw_Ry"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/224 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 08:21:24 -0700 X-UIDL: 8a37fc0047c5b1808fb883fb646b73ba > also, are there any amp designers/builders among us? > I'd spoken with matthias about this before. I've been poking the idea around. A nice all tube stereo amp (for my Stick). I suspect I'm going end up building something more like a PA than a guitar amp. Do you know of any good sources for schematics? -Tom Attix _______________________________________________ attix@apple.com _______________________________________________ "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." -Uncle Duke From ???@??? Tue Sep 24 02:21:06 1996 >From kflint Tue Sep 24 01:37:29 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v5Szg-0003gw-00; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 01:37:28 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v5Szh-0006Dz-00; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 01:37:29 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 01:35:07 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: A life of its own (was Re: Vortex Loops Using Deja Vu B) Resent-Message-ID: <"OtZ6cB.A.7zF.f25Ry"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/221 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 01:37:29 -0700 X-UIDL: 654348da7870fd1cc2c811b6f28f4af8 Todd said: >Ever have one of those experiences where one of your loops takes on a life >of its own and becomes this THING that sounds like it was put together by >decisions you guided, but is now its own THING?!?!? > [Todd's description of a cool loop from the ether] Yes, I love that sort of thing! This used to happen to me sometimes at g-wiz while testing new soft versions in the echoplex. Usually meant the testing got delayed a bit while I enjoyed the loop! A couple really stand out: One time I looped a little sound made by scratching the sixth string of a Les Paul with my fingernail, then letting it ring a bit. I reversed it, and suddenly it was a completely beautiful, mesmerizing noise. Hard to describe it. Sort of a cross between the om sound for meditating and a digeridoo. People walking by my office were transfixed, stopping for a listen. I let it go for a couple of hours while I did other work. Amazing how something so simple could sound so perfect. Another time I was testing midi sample triggering. I had a max patch set up which randomly triggered one of the nine loops in the echoplex at some defined interval, which was sort of a stress test to see if pops would appear or anything would go awry after lots of triggering. I played a note into each loop and started the patch off. Trouble was, I forgot to set the delay between triggers, so MAX was sending the triggers at its maximum rate! The mac totally locked up and I couldn't stop the damn thing. I think max clocks every millisecond, so that's probably how fast the triggers were going. And then I noticed the sound..... It sounded like some strangely harmonic storm, with wind blowing and rain on the roof. Always evolving, yet always in a similar sound space. Really extraordinary, yet totally unexpected and quite beautiful. I'd like to try that one again, but somehow I think it won't come out so well. Maybe its better as a memory.... In case you're wondering, the 'plex survived all this. When I finally stopped it, all the loops were fine, and nothing bad had happened. It probably switched loops several hundred thousand times.... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Sep 24 02:21:08 1996 >From kflint Tue Sep 24 01:51:16 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v5TD1-0005xw-00; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 01:51:15 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v5TD2-0006Nb-00; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 01:51:16 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 01:49:04 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: speakers Resent-Message-ID: <"rZa74B.A.79F.lD6Ry"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/222 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 01:51:16 -0700 X-UIDL: f030c1b8607a63042d7a0d36c8e63a8e >>Assuming you're using a mixer, you can use it with the monitors to >>track your own sound, then send your mixer outputs to the PA for >>everyone else to listen to. This is good, because sometimes when >>looping, you don't want the audience to hear the next bit you're >>preparing. At least I wouldn't. :} > >I forgot to mention that, using studio monitors, you can always record and >reproduce your recordings anywhere. >I visit sometimes someone with my rack and give a concert on their Hifi >system and record it on their tape deck. See how they are amazed. And if I >had to carry speakers, I would end up not playing there. >You can use headphones and hear the same - I mean there is just one sound >and you are always used to what comes out. >- the compatibility of flatness. > >I wrote a sheet called "New Musical Concept" in '88, when I was in Rio, and >I think its happening about now... >How about puting it on the page, Kim? You have it? yes, found it. I put in my folder of "stuff to add to the web page," which is growing quite large! I did manage to put one thing up over the weekend, from Gary Hall. Almost done html-izing some other stuff. Anyone want to help? kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Sep 24 02:24:35 1996 >From kflint Tue Sep 24 02:23:06 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v5Thp-0002ec-00; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 02:23:05 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v5Tho-0006hU-00; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 02:23:04 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 02:20:51 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: speakers Resent-Message-ID: <"nbSaYD.A.MRG.Zh6Ry"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/223 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 02:23:04 -0700 X-UIDL: cbdb3ad1e0bbe5e9297dc326895ec918 >collier wrote >> >>ps: my rig includes a modified DEP-5, jamman, rockman chorus delay for >>feedback delay triggers and stereo sep for the effects returns on a marshall >>acoustic amp... along with custom multi output guitars and gr-1, sansamps, >>wahs valumes etc. >>I'm not entirely happy with the marshall except that it travels easily. >>anyone using portable stereo multi-input beautifully clean amplification? >>If I don't find one I'll do an independant study in electrical engineering >>and design something. also, there is a plastics dept. and acoustical research >>here. >>my main goal is pure sound and portablility. > >Even for electic guitar, certainly for accoustic instruments, I recommend >to use studio monitors. They will give you enough sound for the stage >(unless you make really noisy music), serve you at home and allways will >have a cleaner sound than any "professional" speaker system, giving only >little less efficiancy. I currently have a goal of getting two signal paths, where one handles the straight guitar sounds in all their distorted glory, and the other is clean and powerful for loops and other sound sources. Right now I have the guitar path pretty well set, with: custom Klein guitar (still being built, hurry up lorenzo!) -> assorted pedals -> mesa triaxis -> intellifex -> echoplexes -> mesa simulclass 2:90 -> mesa 1x12 200W ev's My goal is to have the echoplexes out of that chain, but in parallel, with some sort of mixer that can bring the guitar signal in from different points in its path. I also want to be able to mix other sound sources into the loops, and have some assortment of effects that can be arbitrarily placed before or after the loops. I'll then send it out a clean power amp and pa speakers. Of course, then there is the fairly hopeless goal of keeping things small and reasonably portable. I think I'll try to make some kind of modular thing, where depending on what I'm doing and where, I'll take appropriate pieces. The best mixer choice I've seen is the SwitchBlade 16, a 16x16 crosspoint, fully programmable mixer, in 1 rack space. Real expensive, but probably worth it if ya need it. I think I probably do. Now where are those lottery tickets? A friend of mine has something similar to this. He plays a parker fly, with the piezo pickups going to an Eventide dsp 4000 and various other stuff, while the magnetic pickups go through a triaxis, ensoniq DP/4, and an ADA ampulator. This all mixes together for a stereo pair of echoplexes, which goes out either to his PA or his mixing desk, depending on whether its studio or live. His rig sounds great, he gets some really excellent effects by mixing the piezos and mags with different effects applied to each. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Sep 24 23:20:32 1996 >From kflint Tue Sep 24 12:48:45 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v5dTI-0007gD-00; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 12:48:44 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v5dTG-00043T-00; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 12:48:42 -0700 Message-Id: <199609241948.MAA26436@scv3.apple.com> Subject: Re: Amplification Date: Tue, 24 Sep 96 12:51:44 -0000 x-sender: attix@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Tom Attix* To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"b82mz.A.YxD.7qDSy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/228 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 12:48:42 -0700 X-UIDL: 08272a5e92039d3f1ce74ac4e6cad7a3 Dave- Thank you very much for all the info. I will definitely have to reconsider what I've been thinking of building. I don't tour or play live, but I don't want to create a monster that can't leave the house either. Loopers- Sorry if this got a bit off topic, but at least it was educational : >) -Tom Attix _______________________________________________ attix@apple.com _______________________________________________ "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." -Uncle Duke From ???@??? Tue Sep 24 23:20:16 1996 >From kflint Tue Sep 24 08:23:09 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v5ZKH-00029g-00; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 08:23:09 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v5ZKH-0007TH-00; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 08:23:09 -0700 Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 11:20:35 -0400 From: "S. Patrick Hickey" Message-Id: <199609241520.LAA06610@nielsenmedia.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Walls of the Vortex Resent-Message-ID: <"XsE75D.A.J_G.ly_Ry"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/225 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 08:23:09 -0700 X-UIDL: be2dc81f42a09607dc8566546f29b20f Try Guitar Center's web page. I found the local (well, same state, anyways) Guitar Center there, and ordered a Vortex by phone. Got it yesterday, and am at the "why do I want this box" stage. I'm sure I'll get past that in a couple more days of playing with it. Point your web browser at http://www.musician.com, which is run by Guitar Center. Their locations are listed at: http://www.musician.com/location/location.html which can be reached via the home page. Pat Hickey ***SPH brzrkr@nielsenmedia.com From ???@??? Tue Sep 24 23:20:23 1996 >From kflint Tue Sep 24 10:59:00 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v5bl4-0005oE-00; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:58:59 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v5bke-0002Mp-00; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:58:32 -0700 Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 13:42:44 -0400 From: "S. Patrick Hickey" Message-Id: <199609241742.NAA19482@nielsenmedia.com> To: malhomme@infobiogen.fr Subject: Re: Walls of the Vortex Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Resent-Message-ID: <"kbyZaC.A.HIC.kCCSy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/227 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:58:33 -0700 X-UIDL: bb0245ce6ae7ceaf9ad3e2a778d37800 Sorry about that. I misunderstood the question. Here are the locations advertised on the web. Enjoy. Pat Hickey ***SPH brzrkr@nielsenmedia.com California: Guitar Center El Cerrito 10300 San Pablo Ave. El Cerrito Ave, CA 94530 Store Hours: M-F 11-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 11-6 Phone: (510) 559-1055 Manager: Sammy Moir Guitar Center Brea 606 South Brea Blvd. Brea, CA 92621 Store Hours: M-F 10-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 11-6 Phone: (714) 672-0103 Manager: Mike Margolis Guitar Center Covina 1054 North Azusa Ave. Covina, CA 91722 Store Hours: M-F 10-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 11-6 Phone: (818) 967-7911 Manager: Danny Thompson Guitar Center Fountain Valley 18361 Euclid Street Fountain Valley, CA 92708 Store Hours: M-F 10-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 11-6 Phone: (714) 241-9140 Manager: Don Rodrigues Guitar Center Hollywood 7425 Sunset Blvd. Hollywood, CA 90046 Store Hours: M-F 10-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 11-6 Phone: (213) 874-1060 Manager: George Lampos Guitar Center Pleasant Hill 2233 Contra Costa Blvd. Plesent Hill, CA 94523 Store Hours: M-F 11-8, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 11-6 Phone: (510) 825-8880 Manager: Joe Mullinax Guitar Center South Bay 4525 Artesia Blvd. Lawndale, CA 90260 Store Hours: M-F 11-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 11-6 Phone: (310) 542-9444 Manager: Brian Thoryk Guitar Center San Bernardino 720 South "E" Street San Bernardino, CA 92408 Store Hours: M-F 10-8, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 11-6 Phone: (909) 383-3700 Manager: Tod Ericsson Guitar Center San Diego 6533 El Cajon Blvd. San Diego, CA 92115 Store Hours: M-F 10-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 11-6 Phone: (619) 583-9751 Manager: Steve Harder Guitar Center San Francisco 1321 Mission Street San Francisco, CA 94103 Store Hours: M-F 11-8, Sat. 10-7, Sun. 11-6 Phone: (415) 626-7655 Manager: Breck Diebel Guitar Center San Marcos 733 Center Dr.. San Marcos, CA 92069 Store Hours: M-F 10-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 11-6 Phone:(619) 735-8050 Manager:Scott Black Guitar Center San Jose 3430 Stevens Creek Blvd. San Jose, CA 95117 Store Hours: M-F 11-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 11-6 Phone: (408) 249-0455 Manager: Reed Williams Guitar Center Sherman Oaks 14760 Ventura Blvd. Sherman Oaks, CA 91403 Store Hours: M-F 10-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 11-6 Phone: (818) 990-8332 Manager: Jeff Josephson Florida: Guitar Center Hallandale 1101 West Hallandale Beach Blvd. Hallandale, FL 33009 Store Hours: M-F 10-9, Sat. 10-7, Sun. 12-6 Phone: (954) 456-7890 Manager: Ron Bicknell Guitar Center Miami 7736 North Kendall Dr. Miami, FL 33156 Store Hours: M-F 10-9, Sat. 10-7, Sun. 12-6 Phone: (305) 271-2600 Manager: Dan Hansen Illinois: Guitar Center Central Chicago 3228 Clark Street Chicago, Ilinois 60657 Store Hours: M-F 11-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 12-6 Phone: (312) 327-5687 Manager: Dave Lewark Guitar Center N. Chicago 2375 S. Arlington Heights Rd. Arlington Heights, IL 60005 Store Hours: M-F 10-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 12-6 Phone: (847) 439-4600 Manager: Gary Rice Guitar Center S. Chicago 8250 South Cicero Burbank, IL 60459 Store Hours: M-F 11-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 12-6 Phone: (708) 422-1400 Manager: Tony Buffalo Guitar Center Villa Park 298 West Roosevelt Road Villa Park, Ilinois 60181 Store Hours: M-F 10-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 12-6 Phone: (630) 832-2800 Manager: Tony Buffalo Massachusetts: Guitar Center Boston 750 Commonwealth Ave. Boston, MA 02215 Store Hours: M-F 10-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 12-6 Phone: (617) 738-5958 Manager: Peter Schuelzky Guitar Center Danvers 120 Andover Street Danvers, MA 01923 Store Hours: M-F 11-9, Sat. 11-6, Sun. 12-6 Phone: (508) 777-1950 Manager:Freddy Gilfeather Michigan: Guitar Center Detroit 30530 Gratiot Ave. Detroit, MI 48066 Store Hours: M-F 10-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 12-6 Phone: (810) 296-6161 Manager: Kenric Knecht Guitar Center Southfield 29555 Northwestern Hwy. Southfield, MI 48034 Store Hours: M-F 11-9, Sat. 11-6, Sun. 12-6 Phone: (810) 354-8075 Manager: Rahn Wolf Minnesota: Guitar Center Twin Cities 2059 North Snelling Roseville, MN 55113 Store Hours: M-F 11-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 12-6 Phone: (612) 631-9420 Manager: Jerry Grote Texas: Guitar Center Arlington 721 Ryan Plaza Drive Arlington, TX 76011 Store Hours: M-F 11-9, Sat. 11-7, Sun. 12-6 Phone: (817) 277-3510 Manager: Tim Lovick Guitar Center Dallas 14080 Dallas Parkway Dallas, TX 75240 Store Hours: M-F 10-9, Sat. 10-7, Sun. 11-6 Phone: (214) 960-0011 Manager: Randy Singleton Guitar Center Houston 7729 Westheimer Road Houston, TX 77063 Store Hours: M-F 10-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 12-6 Phone: (713) 952-9070 Manager: Don Kelsey Guitar Center N. Houston 16745 North Freeway Houston, TX 77090 Store Hours: M-F 11-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 12-6 Phone: (713) 537-9100 Manager: Jim Moon From ???@??? Tue Sep 24 23:20:20 1996 >From kflint Tue Sep 24 10:58:43 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v5bko-0005nq-00; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:58:42 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v5bkR-0002MT-00; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:58:19 -0700 Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 12:55:12 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Amplification In-Reply-To: <199609241521.IAA13298@scv1.apple.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"u8GJzB.A.AIC.iCCSy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/226 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:58:19 -0700 X-UIDL: 88d7952a0dfcf6e006f708a4ecfa8d0c On Tue, 24 Sep 1996, Tom Attix* wrote: > > also, are there any amp designers/builders among us? > > I'd spoken with matthias about this before. > > I've been poking the idea around. A nice all tube stereo amp (for my > Stick). I suspect I'm going end up building something more like a PA than > a guitar amp. Do you know of any good sources for schematics? > > -Tom Attix I'd say your choice of amps and speakers is highly dependent on the manner in which you intend to present the music. Is this for a home studio, or live playing? Since you're playing Stick, you're going to need to hit some REALLY low bass notes. There are two ways to approach this. One is to use a heavy-duty biamped system with big subwoofers to capture those low fundamentals (a Stick tuned down to low A produces a 27.5hz fundamental!) where typical speakers (especially guitar speakers) crap out. Another is to just roll off that fundamental octave and concentrate on a tight sound (this is why the old Ampeg SVT bass amps with the 8 10" speakers sounded so great. They rolled the fundamental right off, and just reproduced the first order harmonic of the low notes. The amp and speakers weren't overstressed and sounded much tighter). Here's where you'll have problems with tubes. The power requirements for those low notes are enormous. The odds are you'll see power supply sag and its attendant distortion, which may or may not be a Good Thing, depending on your POV. Personally, I want as little coloration as possible after my effects chain and looping devices, and I think most would agree with me here. So unless you're willing to buy or build tube amps big enough to handle the bottom end of the Stick without distortion (well over 100 watts), you'll have to limit your volume, deal with distortion, etc. Solid state amps won't have the power problem. Yeah, they don't sound as transparent and nice as tubes, but you can get big 400w monsters for reasonable money that will drive a 15" vented subwoofer to deafening volumes without excessively coloring the sound. Getting to the point, I'd say the best approach by far for a Stick player would be bi-amping, especially for playing live. The Stick has a ridiculously wide range compared to most instruments. You need something that can handle the deep low notes without compromising the low-midrange fundamentals that make the higher registers punchy. Use an active crossover to split the signal before amplification. Use a high-powered solid-state amp and the best subwoofers you can afford to get the bass. Then use good studio monitors to handle everything over 120hz or so (you'll definitely want to play with the crossover here for best balance). Tubes might help the higher stuff, but there are other problems. Again, I'm presuming you're looking for a clean, transparent sound, not guitar-like distortion. This means an audiophile tube amp, not a guitarist tube amp. If you want a roadworthy system for live performance, you'll have a problem. Audiophile isn't meant to be lugged around all over, and isn't mechanically robust like PA equipment. Older tube PA stuff distorts as bad (good!) as guitar amps. And you'll still want high power, even though tubes sound best at lower power ratings. High-powered guitar-oriented pentode amps might give you clean power at moderate volume. But MOSFET power amps have much of the smoothness of clean tubes without the hassle. Do NOT believe vendor specifications when looking for an amplifier! Let your ears be the judge. Amp specs are made in a pseudo-scientific vacuum by treating the speaker load as a simple 8 ohm RC circuit with negligible capacitance (this is electronics geek stuff. Skip it if you don't understand). Speakers are NOT simple RC circuits, they are complex, reactive devices that generate electrical distortion as well as sonic distortion, and interact in unpredictable (and probably unmeasurable) ways with the amplifier negative feedback loop. The upshot of this is that the speaker/amplifier combination is a single system, not two separate systems, and it should be judged as such. (as an aside in this already excessively long post, I think the problems with the electrical behavior of speakers in the negative feedback loop of the amplifier are the reason tubes sound "better" than transistors, despites theoretically inferior specs. This has to do with the relatively low gain and high impedance of tube output stages compared to transistors reduces the effects of speaker-generated electrical distortion. The Tubeworks MosValve power amps emulate tube gain and impedance structures with MOSFETs, and sound VERY good, at least for simulating the distortion of tube guitar amp power stages. But I digress severely) Still with me? Wow! Again, look into bi-amping, using a big solid-state amp to drive subwoofers to get the low end of your Stick, and use good monitors to get the highs. Whether tubes will improve the sound of the monitors is a subjective call... let your ears guide you. Think about performance conditions... playing volume, touring needs, etc, and balance your needs for clarity/low distortion, mechanical robustness, and volume. Even a simplistic bi-amped solution should buy you better sound than tubes will. But tubes might sweeten it even more. By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com */ -Charles Fort /* http://www.leepfrog.com/~dstagner */ From ???@??? Tue Sep 24 23:20:34 1996 >From kflint Tue Sep 24 13:29:30 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v5e6j-0000eO-00; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 13:29:29 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v5e6h-0004eQ-00; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 13:29:27 -0700 Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 15:28:25 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Amplification In-Reply-To: <199609241948.MAA26436@scv3.apple.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"8_gbG.A.yVE.4RESy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/229 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 13:29:27 -0700 X-UIDL: 1179680dbe8d70ac33faaf411a2c4475 Well, I *hope* we're not straying too far off-topic here! Personally, I think our choice of amplification and reproduction systems is a crucial issue for our unique form of music, and speaker/amp/mixer/headphone discussions should be right up there with JamMan/Echoplex discussions. Some philosophical audiophiles believe there is a fundamental difference in musical experience between live and recorded music, which changes the way we listen. And this isn't just a matter of recorded playback sounding inferior to live. Somehow, I suspect the sound of King Crimson's "Great Deceiver" live cuts is superior through my home stereo today than it was to the audience in 1974 or so. But more importantly, repeated listening changes our understanding of music. When we hear our favorite recordings, especially complex pieces, we hear new and different things every time. Not only do we pick up nuances and detail, but we react emotionally depending on our state of mind at the moment. Now, the music we *create* with our looping devices lies somewhere between live and recorded music. We're making live music, then listening to it again, over and over, sometimes processing and changing it dynamically. We're improvising with recording devices. My first experiments with looping used a Boss Pitch Shifter/Delay with 1.7 sec of grainy 12 bit echo, fed into a tube guitar amplifier. The distortion and tonal change imposed by the amplifier smeared my loops (especially close-voiced chords), and the poor looper trashed my dynamic range and tone quality. I later progressed to a Roland Jazz Chorus amp and better effects to get more control over my tone, and then on to a rackmount preamp with speaker emulation, monitored through headphones. I want to hear EXACTLY what is in my looper, or at least as close as I can get without unpleasant coloration. I enjoy listening to my loops as much as creating them, and I often find myself leaving a good loop alone just listening to it for a long time, maybe reading or writing rather than creating more sounds. So I want a system that causes minimal listening fatigue as well. Eventually, I hope to run my looping output to a nice pair of single-ended audiophile tube amps and monitor speakers. Useless for live playing, but beautiful at home. :} But the basic point is, a big part of the beauty of looping is the intricate detail and sense of motion in the sound. To get the most from the experience, we need to hear our loops as clearly as possible. So amplifier and speaker issues are as much a concern as instruments and delays. By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com */ -Charles Fort /* http://www.leepfrog.com/~dstagner */ From ???@??? Tue Sep 24 23:20:39 1996 >From kflint Tue Sep 24 14:03:24 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v5edY-0001DX-00; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:03:24 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v5edW-0005Ag-00; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:03:22 -0700 Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 13:50:57 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: simple loop idea In-Reply-To: <199609231908.PAA21412@octopus.ab.platinum.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"6_sRN.A.70E.hxESy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/230 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:03:22 -0700 X-UIDL: 8039acbb4680a2e72f522d6f62df0be8 On Mon, 23 Sep 1996, Clark Battle wrote: > I dont have a looper (yet) but here's a neat idea. Send > the output of the looping device of your choice out to a > pitch shifter pedal. That way you can transpose entire > loops into new keys easily. An intelligent harmonizer > would be best but im sure a Digitech Whammy pedal would > work just fine. Simple but effective. I've tried this before. If you're looking for clean transposition, forget the Whammy pedal, since it imbues any signal containing more than one basic note with a gurgling warblish sound. The first five minutes of owning it, I freaked out over this ideosyncrasy, but have since come to enjoy it for its own demented purposes. It is a very wierd effect, using the Whammy to alter loops, because you get a tape-speed kind of pitch effect, but the speed of the loop remains constant. So you're expecting to hear the loops drop in rate as the pitch decreases, but it doesn't. Perty odd, to say the least. --Andre From ???@??? Tue Sep 24 23:20:43 1996 >From kflint Tue Sep 24 14:38:27 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v5fBS-0001tK-00; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:38:26 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v5fBR-0005j2-00; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:38:25 -0700 Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:36:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609242136.OAA00545@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <199609210337.UAA14447@barley.adnc.com> Subject: Re: Looping Setup Resent-Message-ID: <"QhcPiC.A.cWF.iSFSy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/231 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:38:25 -0700 X-UIDL: 2977a9b5eceec3be2f0027a89f709fb5 >The other is the 24-bit processer (TSR-24S) which has great sounding reverbs, >choruses, phase shifters, pitch shifters, you name it....but the trick here is the use of >the continuous MIDI controller pedal. With one simple pedal I can take a loop and >gradually bring it from a "dry" state into a huge cavern. Or vary the speed of left to >right pan from very slow to incredibly fast. The CC can be assigned to any effect >parameter....mix, reverb level, chorus speed, anything you want. I'm not familiar (yet) with MIDI controllable eeffects, but I assume that each controllable parameter is a different "channel" or something, so that if you had enough controllers to mangle, you could hack them all at oncee. Is this right? If so, this Peavey MIDI fader box I have over heree, which I bought for controlling Deck, would be way cool. 16 faders with buttons, "shuttle" dial, and a few other buttons, all of which I believe are programmable. Gee, I need to get one of these TSR-24s thingees and try it out. Spent my first hour with the Vortex last night. It's darn cool. I was playing with the two delays set at, say, /2 and /3, feedbacks up at 64 (100% -> infinite sustain), 100% wet. You can build some pretty darn dense sustained loops. One neat thing is that if you add some percussive sounds (clacking the strings against the fretboard, say), and you get nice 2 against 3 patters (or whatever the ratio is), by dropping the feedback for one of the two delays and then cranking it back up, you can control the level of the two rhythmic parts of the loop. I can see that I really need an Echoplex. Now, who's got 'em for $500, again? From ???@??? Tue Sep 24 23:20:55 1996 >From kflint Tue Sep 24 17:43:57 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v5i4y-0006ap-00; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 17:43:56 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v5i4w-0000sL-00; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 17:43:54 -0700 Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 17:42:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: finley@ecst.csuchico.edu (Matthew F. McCabe) Subject: Re: speakers Resent-Message-ID: <"9cBIyD.A.Tz.dAISy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/232 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 17:43:54 -0700 X-UIDL: d84624dcf2762b750bb5d6570940a535 >yes, found it. I put in my folder of "stuff to add to the web page," which >is growing quite large! I did manage to put one thing up over the weekend, >from Gary Hall. Almost done html-izing some other stuff. Anyone want to >help? Kim....I'll lend a hand at coding a couple of things. Matt ------------------------------------------------------------ King Never http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~finley/kingnever.html ------------------------------------------------------------ Matthew F. McCabe Able Cain King Never Marathon Records From ???@??? Tue Sep 24 23:20:57 1996 >From kflint Tue Sep 24 17:47:26 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v5i8L-0006fC-00; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 17:47:25 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v5i8J-0000wW-00; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 17:47:23 -0700 Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 17:46:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: finley@ecst.csuchico.edu (Matthew F. McCabe) Subject: Re: speakers Resent-Message-ID: <"5qNKKB.A.T3.3DISy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/233 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 17:47:24 -0700 X-UIDL: 8b2003f57292fa7a0ab69b26019127cd I recently upgraded my guitar rig with 2 custom build speaker cabinets loaded with EV 12Ls. They sound WONDERFUL!!! Very rich, musical, and guitarish. If anyone is interested my buddy has a bunch of EV 12Ls (he re-cones them) that he is selling. Let me know. Matt ------------------------------------------------------------ King Never http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~finley/kingnever.html ------------------------------------------------------------ Matthew F. McCabe Able Cain King Never Marathon Records From ???@??? Tue Sep 24 23:20:58 1996 >From kflint Tue Sep 24 19:47:49 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v5k0q-0000vE-00; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 19:47:48 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v5k0j-0002cv-00; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 19:47:41 -0700 Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 19:41:51 -0700 Message-Id: <199609250241.TAA09621@barley.adnc.com> X-Sender: ambient@mail.adnc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: studio seventeen productions Subject: Re: Looping Setup Resent-Message-ID: <"B2E-cB.A.ecC.s0JSy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/234 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 19:47:41 -0700 X-UIDL: 420b698ac41a9fd96c1294ac0fc176cb At 02:36 PM 9/24/96 -0700, you wrote: > >>The other is the 24-bit processer (TSR-24S) which has great sounding reverbs, >>choruses, phase shifters, pitch shifters, you name it....but the trick here is the use of >>the continuous MIDI controller pedal. With one simple pedal I can take a loop and >>gradually bring it from a "dry" state into a huge cavern. Or vary the speed of left to >>right pan from very slow to incredibly fast. The CC can be assigned to any effect >>parameter....mix, reverb level, chorus speed, anything you want. > >I'm not familiar (yet) with MIDI controllable eeffects, but I assume >that each controllable parameter is a different "channel" or >something, so that if you had enough controllers to mangle, you could >hack them all at oncee. > >Is this right? > AND THEN MUCH LATER DAVE @17 SAID: YES sort of. It's really too hard too explain "simply", but the TSR-24S is advanced enough that ANY PARAMETER of a given voice (say number 42...long hall) can be assigned to an expression pedal, and minimum and maximum values can be set for pedal travel. In practice...say you have a slow sweeping phase shifter patch. Normally, it sweeps at .6hz (REALLY slow). If you choose the SWEEP as the parameter you want to CC, you can tell it: when pedal is UP, be at .6hz when pedal is down, be at 12Khz. (VERY VERY fast FAST). The other great thing about the TSR-24S: you can assign MORE THAN ONE parameter to a CC. So you could have a patch with two harmonies, say one octave down PLUS a fifth up...then you assign the OCTAVE DOWN to go from pitch -24 to say pitch +24, and the fifth up you assign to go from 5th up to 4th down. SO: when you push the pedal slowly down, your root note stays constant, your octave down moves slowly up TWO FULL OCTAVES and your fifth up moves down to the 4th below the root note. GOT IT? I took me about three weeks of intense work to come to grips with MIDI for guitar processors (which I hate and distrust as all musicians really should!:) ) but once i figured out what was going on, I've created some pretty cool expression (CC) settings. (BUT I always want to improve them...) Reverbs are my fave, I usually select REVERB LEVEL or a similar parameter. PEDAL UP is NO REVERB (completely dry) and PEDAL DOWN is 100% REVERB. You can make some stupendous sounding changes this way...especially when you consider that my personal preference is to make a loop (or loops) in the Oberheim, and THEN treat them with the TSR-24S. SO: build up a loop with say about 80% reverb, develop it, lull your audience into it, and then suddenly...REMOVE THE REVERB and set down you guitar. the dry, warts and all loop is revealed in all it's horrific glory. shocking but wonderful. and THAT was the SHORT answer... >If so, this Peavey MIDI fader box I have over heree, which I bought >for controlling Deck, would be way cool. 16 faders with buttons, >"shuttle" dial, and a few other buttons, all of which I believe are >programmable. YES...sounds like it may be equivalent (COMPUDER-WISE...) >Gee, I need to get one of these TSR-24s thingees and try it out. > ya really should! although by NOW there are probably way better 'verbs out there, it's 24 BIT, true stereo, and it does excellent pitch shift and harmonies, PLUS it's a FIVE SECOND LOOPER,...plus awesome reverbs, phase shifters, choruses, flangers....everything but DISTORTION/COMPRESSION etc. >Spent my first hour with the Vortex last night. It's darn cool. > >I was playing with the two delays set at, say, /2 and /3, feedbacks >up at 64 (100% -> infinite sustain), 100% wet. You can build some >pretty darn dense sustained loops. One neat thing is that if you add >some percussive sounds (clacking the strings against the fretboard, >say), and you get nice 2 against 3 patters (or whatever the ratio is), >by dropping the feedback for one of the two delays and then cranking >it back up, you can control the level of the two rhythmic parts of the >loop. SOUNDS VERY interesting...but i have my hands FULL just with Obie and TSR... :) :) > >I can see that I really need an Echoplex. Now, who's got 'em for >$500, again? > nobody dude. apply for a grant! cheers to all! keep those ideas flowing... dave at studio seventeen 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 * * * * * * i'll be downstairs if you need me. * * i'll still be downstairs if you DON'T need me * * (Mr. Blint, Consequences/Godley & Creme) * * * * visit: http:www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html seventeen: the ambient music page 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 From ???@??? Tue Sep 24 23:21:00 1996 >From kflint Tue Sep 24 21:27:51 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v5lZe-0002Xz-00; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 21:27:50 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v5lZZ-00045D-00; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 21:27:45 -0700 Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 21:24:28 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: $500 for a Plex: Believe it In-Reply-To: <199609250241.TAA09621@barley.adnc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"gzzHkC.A.zzD.YSLSy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/235 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 21:27:45 -0700 X-UIDL: 0e3f57076715e70b849e1b48ebc1e520 > >I can see that I really need an Echoplex. Now, who's got 'em for > >$500, again? > > nobody dude. apply for a grant! *BZZZZZZT!* Survey says...: A grant shan't be necessary. Nadine's here in luvly SoCal has 'em at that price. The address and phone # has been floating around the list over the last week, so I'm sure someone out there can repost. (I can't find the thing...) From ???@??? Wed Sep 25 01:14:10 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 25 00:13:05 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v5o9X-0005T7-00; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:13:03 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v5o9X-0006Ki-00; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:13:03 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:10:52 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: $500 for a Plex: Believe it Resent-Message-ID: <"khOcpD.A.F7F.etNSy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/236 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:13:03 -0700 X-UIDL: 93d5084b619d43a0a5f1ca02d80f665f >> >I can see that I really need an Echoplex. Now, who's got 'em for >> >$500, again? >> >> nobody dude. apply for a grant! > >*BZZZZZZT!* Survey says...: > >A grant shan't be necessary. Nadine's here in luvly SoCal has 'em at >that price. The address and phone # has been floating around the list >over the last week, so I'm sure someone out there can repost. (I can't >find the thing...) Manny's and Banana's at Large also have them pretty regularly. Don't know the numbers off hand, but I imagine both are on the web. Banana's is. Both of them have been selling echoplexes since the very beginning, and get this, Banana's sales people actually understand it! The store manager actually uses them! Even more: the former sales manager from Oberheim now works at bananas. Ask for Malcolm, and tell him I sent you. And tell him I said he would give you a special discount since you know me. That will make his day, no doubt! The other thing about echoplexes these days is that memory prices for them are dirt cheap. The 4meg simms are only $30! kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Wed Sep 25 01:14:13 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 25 00:52:27 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v5ole-0006KA-00; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:52:26 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v5old-0006nZ-00; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:52:25 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:50:07 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Looping Setup Resent-Message-ID: <"_C81FC.A.CXG.SSOSy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/237 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:52:25 -0700 X-UIDL: 1e646b919564b1ede6998fb933e8e107 >I'm not familiar (yet) with MIDI controllable eeffects, but I assume >that each controllable parameter is a different "channel" or >something, so that if you had enough controllers to mangle, you could >hack them all at oncee. > >Is this right? That's the idea. On each midi channel (16 of them), you have 127 continous controllers, each of which can adjust a value between 0 and 127. Usually a patch on a processor or synth can have any parameter assigned to a continuous controller, so you can adjust it in real time. >If so, this Peavey MIDI fader box I have over heree, which I bought >for controlling Deck, would be way cool. 16 faders with buttons, >"shuttle" dial, and a few other buttons, all of which I believe are >programmable. > > >Gee, I need to get one of these TSR-24s thingees and try it out. Most decent effects devices implement this feature to various degrees. If you want to try it, look at a variety of boxes. The peavey midi faders are probably pretty good. JL cooper also makes them. I imagine others do as well. Now for the adventurous, I encourage you to explore beyond the cheesy faders and footpedals. Check out the Buchla Thunder and Buchla Lightning. These instruments are designed and built by the enigmatic Don Buchla, who is considered to be the co-father of synthesizers as musical instruments, along with Bob Moog. Don is brilliant, and quite possibly one of the most visionary people to ever enter the craft of musical instrument design. Naturally the industry ignores him and no one buys any of his stuff. Doesn't help that he's more than a little unusual and difficult to work with, but share a bottle of wine (or 3 or 4, probably) with him and you won't regret it. Anyway, unlike Moog, who builds theremins somewhere in New York, Don is still creating the future. Distant future probably! Thunder is basically a control surface, with various areas that respond to the position, velocity, and pressure of the musician's fingers by sending out appropriate midi data. I've seen people using it for electronic and ambient music, and it was quite cool. I think this would be great for looping, since you can often stop playing your instrument once the loops are going and concentrate on effects and such. Having ten square feet of footpedals is somewhat less than convenient! But with a thunder, you could turn to this unusual looking device on a stand next to you, and start manipulating the sounds with deft motions of your fingers, playing the effects! Looks cool, and much more musically intuitive. Lightning is a pair of wands that transmit midi data based on their position and velocity in a space. The communicate with the main unit through infrared beams and sensors. Its sort of like playing percussion, but with invisible drums. You can program the space anyway you like, so you mighe have vibraphone in front of you, violin synth pads to your right, effects controllers up in the front, loop triggers to the left.... Don also makes intruments called Rain and Wind, which I don't really know much about since they are newer. I've heard they are quite amazing though. If you are interested Don has a web page at http://www.buchla.com/ I talked with David Torn about similar ideas once, about the need for loop devices to have interesting interfaces that are musically useful and are also interesting to watch for the audience. People get confused if they don't see you making motions that correspond to the sounds they hear, which is a problem for loopers. Various midi controllers out there can probably serve this purpose in interesting ways. I challenge you all to look into it.... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Wed Sep 25 01:14:15 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 25 01:06:29 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v5ozE-0006Sd-00; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 01:06:28 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v5ozE-0006xZ-00; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 01:06:28 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 01:04:13 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Amplification Resent-Message-ID: <"742jqD.A.rgG.hfOSy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/238 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 01:06:28 -0700 X-UIDL: 291a222efab4b869b0c00c5793950cf0 >On Tue, 24 Sep 1996, Tom Attix* wrote: > >> > also, are there any amp designers/builders among us? >> > I'd spoken with matthias about this before. >> >> I've been poking the idea around. A nice all tube stereo amp (for my >> Stick). I suspect I'm going end up building something more like a PA than >> a guitar amp. Do you know of any good sources for schematics? >> >> -Tom Attix > >I'd say your choice of amps and speakers is highly dependent on the >manner in which you intend to present the music. Is this for a home >studio, or live playing? Since you're playing Stick, you're going to >need to hit some REALLY low bass notes. There are two ways to >approach this. One is to use a heavy-duty biamped system with big >subwoofers to capture those low fundamentals (a Stick tuned down to >low A produces a 27.5hz fundamental!) where typical speakers (especially >guitar speakers) crap out. Another is to just roll off that >fundamental octave and concentrate on a tight sound (this is why the >old Ampeg SVT bass amps with the 8 10" speakers sounded so great. >They rolled the fundamental right off, and just reproduced the first >order harmonic of the low notes. The amp and speakers weren't >overstressed and sounded much tighter). Very interesting post Dave. I agree, the cleaner the amplification of your loops, the better. I had a thought about amplifying a Stick, though. Might be obvious to stick players, I don't know. Charlie Hunter plays an eight string guitar with 3 bass strings and 5 guitar strings. He does a rather remarkable job of playing both at once, often getting bass melodies and chords all at once. That's not too amazing with a good guitarist, but he manages to really make it sound like he is two musicians. (Bass player and an Organ player oddly enough.) Part of the seperation comes from using seperate pickups and amplifiers for the bass and guitar strings on the instrument. So the bass side runs through a good bass amp, and the guitar through a rotary speaker effect and into a good guitar amp. Both are small and portable. Seems like tubes would be better for the higher strings on the stick, since a little bit of tube distortion would probably give a good sustain for them. Of course, this falls apart for looping, where you need something cleaner. Then you probably want something like Dave is suggesting. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Wed Sep 25 13:21:07 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 25 09:02:06 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v5wBs-0007Zw-00; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 08:48:00 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v5wBn-0003K4-00; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 08:47:55 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: ToddM@LaserMaster.Com Organization: LaserMaster Corporation Date: 25 Sep 1996 10:45:41CST6CDT Subject: Plex Pricing Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail/Mac v2.0 Message-ID: <8DB4431F34@laserm.lmt.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"_mcX7C.A.3FD.XPVSy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/241 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 08:47:55 -0700 X-UIDL: f3b0bd39679cf206d9d2c78022d2c674 This is the issue with the Plex for me - I really want one bad, but you have to pay to play. And I just bought a Vortex so it will be some months off. o I've seen Banana's pricing on their web page (about $598) o Haight Ashbury Music on their web page (about $549) o Nadine's supposedly will sell them for $500. o And Manny's also supposedly will sell for around $475. Nadine's and Manny's seems to be the most attractive pricings. I'll have to see if I can get in touch with them or find a catalog somewhere... I suppose I could do something rash like sell a guitar or a bunch of CDs to speed up the process, but I'd kick myself later. Saving the conventional way means months of scrimping since I'm a married guy and "being a responsible adult means paying bills before buying luxuries" -Guitar Sam. Maybe I should sell some of the old stomp- boxes I've had lying around doing nothing for a while? The Jam Man I've seen for about $350 - I'd rather have the 'Plex since it's got the expandability and more functions (not to mention more LIGHTS ON THE CONTROL PANEL - [what my friend Jim would say has a high KPD [knobs (lights) per dollar] factor] and has a much more substantial footswitch as well as more memory from the get go and uses standard SIMMs instead of ZIP ram. I've got an idea: but no idea how to implement it: maybe we should do a GROUP PURCHASE and get some kind of volume discount from some nice music store somewhere? Not only would we benefit, but the store would also benefit in moving an "esoteric" piece of equipment and maybe Oberheim would then award the store with "mover and shaker of the month" certificate or something like that. Todd Madson PressMate Product Specialist LaserMaster Big Color Technical Support Corporate Web Site: http://www.lasermaster.com/ Personal W3 Site: http://www.waste.org/~crash/index.html Personal e-mail: crash@waste.org From ???@??? Wed Sep 25 13:20:48 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 25 07:11:25 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v5ugO-0006Kz-00; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 07:11:24 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v5ugM-00029p-00; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 07:11:22 -0700 Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 09:10:33 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Amplification In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"8eyBv.A.RAC.j1TSy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/239 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 07:11:22 -0700 X-UIDL: e65ba2a2b88df5d4afe44e6f0671de6c On Wed, 25 Sep 1996, Kim Flint wrote: > Seems like tubes would be better for the higher strings on the stick, since > a little bit of tube distortion would probably give a good sustain for > them. > > Of course, this falls apart for looping, where you need something cleaner. > Then you probably want something like Dave is suggesting. Gotta love that tube sustain, huh? :} Actually, since the Stick already has split pickups for its two courses of strings, I'd use a SansAmp or something along those lines to get that electric guitar effect. That way, you can switch it in and out of your chain, like any other effect. Personally, I use a BBE 2+1 rackmount preamp (with BBE effect and speaker emulation), and a ProCo Rat II. Between them, I get a wide variety of clean and distorted sounds with no hassle at all. I probably get more use from the speaker emulator effect than the distortion, really. It takes that jangly, piercing edge off the guitar. It might be good for other instruments, too. Actually, guitar-like amp effects can be VERY useful for other instruments. One of the most amazing looping pieces I've ever heard was done by an old roommate of mine, running a shokohachi (Japanese flute) through my primitive Boss Delay/Boogie amp looping rig, and picking up reverberation feedback from the monitor speakers through his microphone. He was trying to get difference tones, and succeeded admirably. -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com */ -Charles Fort /* http://www.leepfrog.com/~dstagner */ From ???@??? Wed Sep 25 13:20:56 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 25 07:46:08 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v5vDz-0006iW-00; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 07:46:07 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v5vDu-0002Xi-00; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 07:46:02 -0700 Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 16:44:20 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Amplification an others things In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"5miwI.A.lXC.BWUSy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/240 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 07:46:02 -0700 X-UIDL: 71d4ab6c902c8046e64afef0e34ef40e The problem with the Stick (at least mine) is that the "melody" pick-up picks up the two first bass strings bass one picks up the three first melody strings. In case of applying different effects ont the two set of strings.... you get delay or distortion on the bass strings that muddy this nice chord you were doing on the melody strings. When looping with the melody strings, it is a problem. By the way i'm quite myself so much used to speaker emulator that i cannot stand real guitar amps anymore. I run in live in two KB300 peavey for stereo, fed with a mackie in wich you find diffrent preamp: Lag Spitfire for guitars and melody of the Stick and Peavay Rockmaster (Duh?) for bass strings of the Stick. I know it is weird but it has sound to hate with guitars but soounds nicely bright with bass strings of the Stick. I use every time to run a lot of Synth through guitar preamp, to get a grainy color. It is working very well with wind intruments. A flute with a real nicely imitated flute or a sample, controlled with guitar synth to add "realness" can fool people if passed through guitar pramps (i said people, yes?). Olivier From ???@??? Wed Sep 25 13:23:17 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 25 11:04:39 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v5yK6-0001ZT-00; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:04:38 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v5yK1-0005W2-00; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:04:33 -0700 Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 12:15:02 -0400 From: cwb@platinum.com (Clark Battle) Message-Id: <199609251615.MAA24787@octopus.ab.platinum.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Plex Pricing X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"THxgrC.A.eJF.1PXSy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/244 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:04:33 -0700 X-UIDL: dbcae9eb3163f6c65c5e5795ac6dc19a >I've got an idea: but no idea how to implement it: maybe we should do >a GROUP PURCHASE and get some kind of volume discount from some >nice music store somewhere? Id go in for that if we could get it for the $475 Manny's price or less. Whats Manny's number anyway? Where are they? Clark From ???@??? Wed Sep 25 13:21:16 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 25 10:12:14 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v5xVM-0000kc-00; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 10:12:12 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v5xVJ-0004Xm-00; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 10:12:09 -0700 From: pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu (Paolo Valladolid) Message-Id: <199609251706.KAA24585@waynesworld.ucsd.edu.> Subject: Re: Amplification To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 10:06:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: from "Kim Flint" at Sep 25, 96 01:04:13 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gt3Fw.A.uOE.leWSy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/242 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 10:12:09 -0700 X-UIDL: a9e68c05eac569b9c1bf35082d42fa96 [Dave Stagner wrote] > >I'd say your choice of amps and speakers is highly dependent on the > >manner in which you intend to present the music. Is this for a home > >studio, or live playing? Since you're playing Stick, you're going to > >need to hit some REALLY low bass notes. There are two ways to > >approach this. One is to use a heavy-duty biamped system with big > >subwoofers to capture those low fundamentals (a Stick tuned down to > >low A produces a 27.5hz fundamental!) where typical speakers (especially > >guitar speakers) crap out. Another is to just roll off that > >fundamental octave and concentrate on a tight sound (this is why the > >old Ampeg SVT bass amps with the 8 10" speakers sounded so great. > >They rolled the fundamental right off, and just reproduced the first > >order harmonic of the low notes. The amp and speakers weren't > >overstressed and sounded much tighter). [Kim Flint] > Very interesting post Dave. I agree, the cleaner the amplification of your > loops, the better. I had a thought about amplifying a Stick, though. Might > be obvious to stick players, I don't know. > > Charlie Hunter plays an eight string guitar with 3 bass strings and 5 > guitar strings. He does a rather remarkable job of playing both at once, > often getting bass melodies and chords all at once. That's not too amazing > with a good guitarist, but he manages to really make it sound like he is > two musicians. (Bass player and an Organ player oddly enough.) Part of the > seperation comes from using seperate pickups and amplifiers for the bass > and guitar strings on the instrument. So the bass side runs through a good > bass amp, and the guitar through a rotary speaker effect and into a good > guitar amp. Both are small and portable. Given the choice between the considerable weight and expense of a subwoofer setup and a compact 2x10 type cabinet for the bass section of my Stick, I'd probably go with the 2x10 myself. I noted that Charlie Hunter uses an Eden 2x10 cabinet for his bass sound - it sounded nice and warm enough to me. However, the fact that the Stick also offers fairly high tuned strings on the "bass" side - well into the guitar range - presents an interesting problem for Stick players who like to play big chords using both sides of the Stick. Hence an interest among a number of Stick players in using some kind of crossover so that only those high "bass" strings are processed while the low bass strings are not. A number of bass amps and preamps offer built in crossovers that may serve this purpose for Stick players. > Seems like tubes would be better for the higher strings on the stick, since > a little bit of tube distortion would probably give a good sustain for > them. An idea I've had for some time, but still lack the funds to try, is to get a little tube amp (a Fender Pro Jr., Mesa Boogie Subway Blues, etc.) and either mic it or run it through a Red Box into a mixer, in parallel with a bass preamp and a clean guitar preamp. That way, one would have the sound of power tube overdrive available for patching into any part of a signal chain. Just a thought. Paolo Valladolid ----------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ----------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Wed Sep 25 13:21:20 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 25 10:27:13 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v5xjs-0000y3-00; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 10:27:12 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v5xjq-0004mh-00; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 10:27:10 -0700 From: pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu (Paolo Valladolid) Message-Id: <199609251720.KAA24681@waynesworld.ucsd.edu.> Subject: Re: Looping Setup To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 10:20:02 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: from "Kim Flint" at Sep 25, 96 00:50:07 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"TRNoMD.A.HcE.arWSy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/243 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 10:27:10 -0700 X-UIDL: e79fbdc8b9f2c12c3b122063cd4ec610 > Thunder is basically a control surface, with various areas that respond to > the position, velocity, and pressure of the musician's fingers by sending > out appropriate midi data. I've seen people using it for electronic and > ambient music, and it was quite cool. I had the good fortune of attending a conference featuring Dr. Emil Tobenfield(sp?), probably better known as Dr. T of Dr. T's music software. He is a big fan of the Thunder - it's a central component of his personal setup. > Lightning is a pair of wands that transmit midi data based on their > position and velocity in a space. The communicate with the main unit > through infrared beams and sensors. Its sort of like playing percussion, > but with invisible drums. You can program the space anyway you like, so you > mighe have vibraphone in front of you, violin synth pads to your right, > effects controllers up in the front, loop triggers to the left.... I've seen the Lighting in use at UCSD music department performances; never fails to get a laugh from the audience. I happen to study Filipino fencing myself - now you've got me interested in seeing how my strikes and counters would sound as translated into music! When David Jaffe was guest-teaching down here, he brought over his friend who plays Max Matthews' Radio Drum; a drum that senses position, velocity, and possibly acceleration in the space over it for a pair of wired mallets. I think they only make this instrument on a per-order basis though. > I talked with David Torn about similar ideas once, about the need for loop > devices to have interesting interfaces that are musically useful and are > also interesting to watch for the audience. People get confused if they > don't see you making motions that correspond to the sounds they hear, which > is a problem for loopers. Various midi controllers out there can probably > serve this purpose in interesting ways. I challenge you all to look into > it.... It might be an interesting project to get two wand-type controllers, hand each to a fencer, Japanese kendoka, or Filipino escrimador, and have them mock fight. Paolo Valladolid ----------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ----------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Wed Sep 25 13:23:24 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 25 11:44:54 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v5yx2-0002G0-00; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:44:52 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v5yx0-0006BI-00; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:44:50 -0700 Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:41:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609251841.LAA05298@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: effects box digital IO Resent-Message-ID: <"lYdoTC.A.JxF.H1XSy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/246 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:44:50 -0700 X-UIDL: d94a9ef0fed295a9c72b168b2f6bcc34 >>They could supply the effects in/out as digital s/pdif, which wouldn't >>add much to the base cost. You could go right through an effects unit >>with digital in/out, and they could sell an add-on A/D D/A box for >>people with analogue effects that want to use this technique. > >sp/dif means two extra ic's, neither of which are very cheap, two extra >connectors and rear panel space, extra board area, clock oscillator, and >various passive components. On a low volume product, (anything in the music >industry is low volume) this can mean adding anywhere from $40 to $80 to >the list price of the product. Most effects boxes don't use digital audio, >those that do are mostly high-end and use aes/ebu (sp/dif is a consumer >format), which is more expensive. Big hit for something that 99% of the >current market will never use. See how hard this stuff is? Its a wonder >anything gets made.... Having done CPU design in a previous life (it's in the Sony Playstation), I think I know what this takes. If you're doing your own processing ASIC as I understand Digitech does, for example, adding s/pdif would add a very minimal amount of chip area, and only two pins. Testing for this kind of serial protocol would also not be too difficult. But OK, if you're not building a custom ASIC, it might be harder. However, there are other solutions. You can bring out a proprietary ribbon-connector cable on the back panel, and sell a s/dif aes/ebu convertor seperately. This feature would add minimal cost, and would allow you another point with which to hype the product. If a company made a series of effects boxes with this sort of proprietary-but-convertible digital interface, they'd have a lot to tout, and would tend to "lock" people in to their product lines due to better performance. From ???@??? Wed Sep 25 13:23:25 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 25 11:51:57 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v5z3r-0002Mh-00; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:51:55 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v5z3p-0006Jn-00; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:51:53 -0700 Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:49:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609251849.LAA06557@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: eno audio clip Resent-Message-ID: <"m6mia.A.Y5F.D8XSy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/247 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:51:53 -0700 X-UIDL: f52c79f33dedfa5326bb5692425ffc0c Kim Flint writes: >Ray and I said: >>>This would be nifty for the web page. Does anyone know how to put RealAudio >>>stuff on a web site? Better yet, does anyone want to figure it out, do >>>whatever it takes to put the eno file in RealAudio format, and send it to >>>me for uploading? >> >>I can digitize it and send it was, say, an AIFF or SDII file. > >Ok, send it as aiff. Tell me how big it is first...probably best to ftp it >if its big. Can you somehow set yourself up as an ftp server? No, I can't. From ???@??? Wed Sep 25 13:23:20 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 25 11:16:40 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v5yVj-0001n9-00; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:16:39 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v5yVZ-0005hs-00; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:16:29 -0700 Message-Id: <9609251812.AA02695@acc> Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 14:10:38 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: jspeer@haverford.edu Subject: Re: Plex Pricing Resent-Message-ID: <"BcWjrC.A.fUF.gaXSy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/245 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:16:30 -0700 X-UIDL: 192eca0e4bb29008e0f64f4b128b34ba >>I've got an idea: but no idea how to implement it: maybe we should do >>a GROUP PURCHASE and get some kind of volume discount from some >>nice music store somewhere? > >Id go in for that if we could get it for the $475 Manny's >price or less. Whats Manny's number anyway? Where are they? > >Clark Manny's is in Manhatten. For god's sake, don't visit in person -- It's incredibly tiny and cramped. Their catalog is great and their phone service and assistance are well above average. I've spent thousands there over the years. Their number is: 1 (800) 448-8478. I'd go in with a group buy as well, but can't commit before more details. Who'd be organizing this? Jim From ???@??? Wed Sep 25 13:23:31 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 25 12:19:38 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v5zUe-000343-00; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 12:19:36 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v5zUb-0006wT-00; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 12:19:33 -0700 Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 15:23:04 -0400 From: cwb@platinum.com (Clark Battle) Message-Id: <199609251923.PAA25326@octopus.ab.platinum.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Plex Pricing X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"jU3p-D.A.xeG.LWYSy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/248 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 12:19:33 -0700 X-UIDL: b8700b3788f15fc774e9383a8464831f Bad news. I just called Manny's and they dont have any more echoplexes nor aer they getting any more :( Clark From ???@??? Wed Sep 25 13:23:35 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 25 12:43:35 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v5zrq-0003h2-00; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 12:43:34 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v5zri-0007Ln-00; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 12:43:26 -0700 Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 12:39:06 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Performance Theory, Pt. 1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Dx_YK.A.c2G.4rYSy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/249 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 12:43:26 -0700 X-UIDL: ee994fb6d8abb578c66912bab1f20c34 Kim sez: > People get confused if they > don't see you making motions that correspond to the sounds they hear, which > is a problem for loopers. This reminds me of a loop piece I did several months ago, at a Guitar Department concert here at Cal Arts, which requires different phrases to be entered into the Echoplex and then allowed to loop for a few times before the next phrase is played. I walked on stage, plugged in, and played the first phrase, then began the loop and stopped playing. After a second or two, I suddenly heard a pair of people in the front row saying (at full conversational volume): "Oh, look at that! A guitar that plays itself!" They then began laughing (again, making no apparent effort to conceal this reaction.) I suddenly looked over and stared right at them. When they suddenly noticed I was glaring at them, one of them uttered, "Oh.....!" and were immediately quiet. Then the whole house broke out laughing, myself included. Any other odd performance stories out there? --Andre From ???@??? Wed Sep 25 13:23:37 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 25 12:44:41 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v5zsu-0003iZ-00; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 12:44:40 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v5zss-0007O0-00; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 12:44:38 -0700 Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 12:41:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609251941.MAA14286@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: Walls of the Vortex Resent-Message-ID: <"ORe6dB.A.J5G.TtYSy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/250 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 12:44:38 -0700 X-UIDL: 6085585b9e6ff1e45ab7c787340b8daa >At the current Guitar Center rate of $150, it's an absolute steal -- I agree. In fact, at this price, I'm thinking of buying a second one to see what trouble I can *really* get myself into. . . From ???@??? Wed Sep 25 13:23:41 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 25 12:54:04 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v601y-0003xa-00; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 12:54:02 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v601v-0007ZO-00; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 12:53:59 -0700 Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 12:50:33 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: The grass roots approach Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"TOjAYB.A.YFH.t2YSy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/252 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 12:53:59 -0700 X-UIDL: 78b19fbec2e6ea3436050497d04a96a4 Hey y'all -- There was some talk a while ago regarding getting personal bleebs about "normal" joes like (most of) us up on the web page. I remember seeing a list of Stick players on the Stickwire page, and was impressed with the way it was laid out and offered information. So my suggestion is that some sort of (gulp) standardized approach be made up, whereby loopists (i.e. ourselves) can have their musical, professional, personal info. on file at the web site. One idea might be to decide upon a certain format of info, including: Name, address, area(s) of musical specialization (euphemism for the dreaded "style" label), influences, personal statement, available recordings, gear/rig details, contact info, etc. Any of these could be considered optional. It might then be possible to arrange and cross-reference them in a variety of ways, including alphabetically, by geographical location, by musical area, etc. Let's hear what other people have to say about how this should be approached. I'm keen on trying to find out exactly who and how many we are. --Andre From ???@??? Wed Sep 25 13:23:38 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 25 12:50:15 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v5zyI-0003rf-00; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 12:50:14 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v5zyF-0007UP-00; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 12:50:11 -0700 Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 15:53:32 -0400 From: cwb@platinum.com (Clark Battle) Message-Id: <199609251953.PAA25345@octopus.ab.platinum.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Plex Pricing X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"iXXQzC.A.WAH.AzYSy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/251 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 12:50:11 -0700 X-UIDL: 7a0fc9e36d18a5d81dba05fa18b0303f I just got off the phone with Nadine's and the $500 price is confirmed. They dont have any in stock though. I talked to Adrian and he said that a group/volume discount is possible but we'd have to find out exactly how many are interested first. I have no idea how much of a discount we can expect though. Any guesses? Who wants in? Clark From ???@??? Wed Sep 25 13:23:44 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 25 13:06:36 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v60E5-0004Cw-00; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:06:33 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v60E2-0007m6-00; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:06:30 -0700 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9609251604.ZM13766@wolf2.vlsc.rpi.edu> Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 16:04:44 -0400 In-Reply-To: ToddM@LaserMaster.Com "Plex Pricing" (Sep 25, 8:48am) References: <8DB4431F34@laserm.lmt.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Plex Pricing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"ZFQy5D.A.eRH.UCZSy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/253 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:06:30 -0700 X-UIDL: 1ef135615407b4d3e4b4307dc23033ed group purchasing resulting in mover and shaker award sounds interesting I'm going over to visit manny'ssoon what's the word on waiting for the new software before plex purchase? From ???@??? Thu Sep 26 01:50:13 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 25 19:20:09 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v663c-0003xX-00; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 19:20:08 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v663a-00067y-00; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 19:20:06 -0700 Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 19:16:14 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Plex Pricing In-Reply-To: <9609251604.ZM13766@wolf2.vlsc.rpi.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ryBa2D.A.-tF.IgeSy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/254 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 19:20:06 -0700 X-UIDL: ba332b3156b28b1f8fa5c9596dd04269 On Wed, 25 Sep 1996, Louis Collier Hyams wrote: > what's the word on waiting for the new software before plex purchase? My word would be that you're in for a long wait. The "official" word, of course, is that release of the See You EW! (CU-EU) is right around the corner, barring some "technical complications." But given some of the problems I've heard people have had with Oberheim, I wouldn't be surprised if the See You EW! never sees the light of day. I hope this is more a nihilistic worst-case scenario than an accurate prognostication, but to me there are many reasons to assume that the current non-upgrade version of the Plex is the only one we'll know, glitches and all. Keep your fingers crossed to the contrary, though... --Andre From ???@??? Thu Sep 26 01:50:15 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 25 20:33:43 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v67Co-0004xI-00; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 20:33:42 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v67Co-0007At-00; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 20:33:42 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960926033833.006f8d60@xenon.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@xenon.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 20:38:33 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Plex Pricing Resent-Message-ID: <"BykCQD.A.UtG.hlfSy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/255 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 20:33:42 -0700 X-UIDL: 6b6c9ae2e967de06d6432b403d1535fa At 07:16 PM 9/25/96 -0700, you wrote: >On Wed, 25 Sep 1996, Louis Collier Hyams wrote: > >> what's the word on waiting for the new software before plex purchase? > >My word would be that you're in for a long wait. The "official" word, of >course, is that release of the See You EW! (CU-EU) is right around the >corner, barring some "technical complications." But given some of the >problems I've heard people have had with Oberheim, I wouldn't be >surprised if the See You EW! never sees the light of day. > >I hope this is more a nihilistic worst-case scenario than an accurate >prognostication, but to me there are many reasons to assume that the >current non-upgrade version of the Plex is the only one we'll know, >glitches and all. > >Keep your fingers crossed to the contrary, though... > >--Andre > god, I hope not! Matthias and I are going to try to resolve these problems over the next few months. We'll see how it goes. I remain optimistic that somehow or another, there will be an upgrade. When that happens it will be called "The Upgrade Previously Known As the Legendary Currently Unavailable Echoplex Upgrade." (TUPKAL CU-EU?) kim ___________________________________ Kim Flint OEM Engineering Chromatic Research 408-752-9284 From ???@??? Thu Sep 26 01:50:18 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 25 20:55:27 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v67Xq-0005Ik-00; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 20:55:26 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v67Xm-0007XO-00; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 20:55:22 -0700 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9609252354.ZM56552@marcus.its.rpi.edu> Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 23:54:08 -0400 In-Reply-To: Kim Flint "Re: Plex Pricing" (Sep 25, 8:34pm) References: <2.2.32.19960926033833.006f8d60@xenon.chromatic.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 07feb95) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Plex Pricing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"5WHefD.A._CH.35fSy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/256 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 20:55:23 -0700 X-UIDL: 4e15191d8d2b3c88a1d21e97f5f74831 TUPKAL it is! hear here! 4 TUPKAL! From ???@??? Thu Sep 26 01:50:20 1996 >From kflint Wed Sep 25 22:45:20 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v69GB-00070B-00; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 22:45:19 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v69GA-0001SB-00; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 22:45:18 -0700 Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 22:42:03 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Plex Pricing In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19960926033833.006f8d60@xenon.chromatic.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"AOBIlD.A.yVB.EhhSy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/257 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 22:45:18 -0700 X-UIDL: ee400e43ac25a2dca966273213797014 > I remain optimistic that > somehow or another, there will be an upgrade. When that happens it will be > called "The Upgrade Previously Known As the Legendary Currently Unavailable > Echoplex Upgrade." (TUPKAL CU-EU?) Maybe we should get an unpronouncable squiggly symbol to represent it once it's finally available...? --Andre From ???@??? Thu Sep 26 02:26:50 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 26 02:28:08 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v6Cjl-00016k-00; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 02:28:05 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v6Cjk-00041A-00; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 02:28:04 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 02:25:31 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: The grass roots approach Resent-Message-ID: <"yRxN_C.A.AwD.5xkSy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/258 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 02:28:04 -0700 X-UIDL: d41f9ee2d5c237056edc7aae29e1be6c >Hey y'all -- > >There was some talk a while ago regarding getting personal bleebs about >"normal" joes like (most of) us up on the web page. I remember seeing a >list of Stick players on the Stickwire page, and was impressed with the >way it was laid out and offered information. > >So my suggestion is that some sort of (gulp) standardized approach be >made up, whereby loopists (i.e. ourselves) can have their musical, >professional, personal info. on file at the web site. > >One idea might be to decide upon a certain format of info, including: >Name, address, area(s) of musical specialization (euphemism for the >dreaded "style" label), influences, personal statement, available >recordings, gear/rig details, contact info, etc. Any of these could be >considered optional. I'm really into this idea. I have no time to organize it at the moment, so if y'all want to just go ahead that would be most excellent! We can put audio clips, pictures, gear diagrams, and whatever else you like. The loop web page has 20MB of space to grow into, and I'm sure its << 1MB now. Although, If you think you want to share very large amounts of data about yourself with the loop enthusiasts of the world, it would be better to set up your own site and we can link to it from your little blurb section on Looper's Delight. But within reason, I think we can make this really fun and interesting. And since Andre brought it up, doesn't that mean he's in charge of the project? >Let's hear what other people have to say about how this should be >approached. I'm keen on trying to find out exactly who and how many >we are. > >--Andre kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Fri Sep 27 02:18:37 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 26 07:19:41 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v6HHv-0000vt-00; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 07:19:40 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v6HHt-00047F-00; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 07:19:37 -0700 Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 10:23:00 -0400 From: cwb@platinum.com (Clark Battle) Message-Id: <199609261423.KAA26098@octopus.ab.platinum.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Plex Pricing X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"YyRSJB.A.w1D.KDpSy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/259 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 07:19:37 -0700 X-UIDL: bd0037c16624c413fe91a30701b86046 Will the TUPKAL CU-EU be a free upgrade or paid? Clark From ???@??? Fri Sep 27 02:19:05 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 26 10:26:53 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v6KD6-0005jU-00; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 10:26:52 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v6KCr-0007Bf-00; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 10:26:37 -0700 Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 10:16:44 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: The grass roots approach In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"mQBbRC.A.hoG.EwrSy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/260 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 10:26:37 -0700 X-UIDL: 199d75093ba662f616b63c8b7b7012bc > And since Andre brought it up, doesn't that mean he's in charge of the project? Yeah, I guess maybe it does... ;-/ What say that people can send me e-mail copies of whatever profiles they want to have run, and I can compile them into a single document for Kim? This will likely take some time both for everyone else and for me, so let's hear exactly how we want to approach it format-wsie before we go off... --Andre From ???@??? Fri Sep 27 02:19:06 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 26 10:27:06 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v6KDI-0005jn-00; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 10:27:04 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v6KD6-0007C3-00; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 10:26:52 -0700 Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 10:18:16 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Plex Pricing In-Reply-To: <199609261423.KAA26098@octopus.ab.platinum.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"blaXX.A.zoG.KwrSy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/261 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 10:26:52 -0700 X-UIDL: ba9305cb311e91b96329fa12c2b3aa16 On Thu, 26 Sep 1996, Clark Battle wrote: > > Will the TUPKAL CU-EU be a free upgrade or paid? >From what I've heard, the TUPKAL CU-EU will almost certainly be paid, as it contains new features not found in the original Echoplex (in addition to the corect features that were *supposed* to be in the original Echoplex). --Andre From ???@??? Fri Sep 27 02:19:10 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 26 10:46:01 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v6KVc-00068j-00; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 10:46:00 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v6KVY-0007gg-00; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 10:45:56 -0700 Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 13:48:31 -0400 From: cwb@platinum.com (Clark Battle) Message-Id: <199609261748.NAA26162@octopus.ab.platinum.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Plex Pricing X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ZfgJCB.A.3KH._DsSy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/262 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 10:45:56 -0700 X-UIDL: 0fe8c5dd5bdbf5960626417e743561d7 >From: The Man Himself > >From what I've heard, the TUPKAL CU-EU will almost certainly be paid, as > it contains new features not found in the original Echoplex (in addition > to the corect features that were *supposed* to be in the original > Echoplex). > So what are these new features? Does anyone know or is it top secret? Clark From ???@??? Fri Sep 27 02:19:18 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 26 11:10:22 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v6KtA-0006c3-00; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 11:10:20 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v6Kt2-0000ZY-00; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 11:10:12 -0700 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9609261358.ZM150069@matisse.its.rpi.edu> Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 13:58:11 -0400 In-Reply-To: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) "Re: The grass roots approach" (Sep 26, 2:28am) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 07feb95) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: The grass roots approach Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"GmSd2B.A.1e.0asSy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/264 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 11:10:13 -0700 X-UIDL: fb8db1a21a6a910c5cb470b893a16fd5 andre' what do the calartians have for machines now? web space and such? would it be possible to use some of that? rippy(rpi) has relatively cheap per meg rates, but my program is super intensive and may not have enough hours per carpeyed diem. ps: what program are you in? music I take it... I got accepted into the experimental motion graphics there. ended up choosing iEAR program for the teachers and the ability to integrate here is very unique. departments seemed very clicky and politic al when I was there. also, did they fix the hydraulic stage after the earthquake? collier From ???@??? Fri Sep 27 02:19:16 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 26 11:10:12 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v6Kt1-0006bo-00; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 11:10:11 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v6Ksu-0000ZI-00; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 11:10:04 -0700 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9609261400.ZM99680@matisse.its.rpi.edu> Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 14:00:30 -0400 In-Reply-To: The Man Himself "Re: Plex Pricing" (Sep 26, 10:27am) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 07feb95) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Plex Pricing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"_ryhSB.A.ve.zasSy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/263 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 11:10:04 -0700 X-UIDL: b681a7448ed5067a4c5430d1c0aa7d71 if it is apaid TUPKAL then I'll have to wait, and blow my wad in a lump }8-> collier From ???@??? Fri Sep 27 02:19:37 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 26 12:20:57 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v6LzU-0000QO-00; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 12:20:56 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v6LzP-0001tO-00; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 12:20:51 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 16:23:39 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Looping Setup Resent-Message-ID: <"PzLO4C.A.BvB.BdtSy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/265 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 12:20:51 -0700 X-UIDL: 853abd0c321262a93165c9b59f915136 >>The other is the 24-bit processer (TSR-24S) which has great sounding reverbs, >>choruses, phase shifters, pitch shifters, you name it....but the trick >>here is the use of >>the continuous MIDI controller pedal. With one simple pedal I can take a >>loop and >>gradually bring it from a "dry" state into a huge cavern. Or vary the >>speed of left to >>right pan from very slow to incredibly fast. The CC can be assigned to >>any effect >>parameter....mix, reverb level, chorus speed, anything you want. > >I'm not familiar (yet) with MIDI controllable eeffects, but I assume >that each controllable parameter is a different "channel" or >something, so that if you had enough controllers to mangle, you could >hack them all at oncee. I also work a lot with the control of the size of the artificial room (=reverb time) while playing. I think the listener ends up really living in this room, and you can suggest to him that he has loads of space to stay in peace or you can give him claustrophobia in a cabinet and he will suffer in there. The change between these two extremes brings the contraction relaxation movement that helps us to really solve problems and relax. I have a Mitigator PCB that accepts 4 input voltages, coming from faders I operate by foot. One is constantely on the reverb time of the PCM90, another two for the characteristics of the effect on the PCM80 (depends on the program, usually one Mix, the other Pitch or modulation rate) and the forth for the FeedBack of the Plex. Matthias From ???@??? Fri Sep 27 02:19:39 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 26 12:21:40 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v6M0B-0000RV-00; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 12:21:39 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v6M06-0001uf-00; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 12:21:34 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 16:24:07 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Performance Theory, Pt. 1 Resent-Message-ID: <"n4CQ-D.A.XwB.ndtSy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/266 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 12:21:34 -0700 X-UIDL: a5b7e9f91bb1e5aa8165f1ffae58314f > >Any other odd performance stories out there? > I made people laugh once when I played open air and suddenly had a heat attack under the lamps and during the song put away the guitar to take my sweater off. But some people dislike such thing... Matthias From ???@??? Fri Sep 27 02:19:58 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 26 13:42:17 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v6NGD-0002FW-00; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 13:42:17 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v6NGB-0003Oc-00; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 13:42:15 -0700 Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 13:44:28 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: Technohoploops? Resent-Message-ID: <"px715.A.DKD.kpuSy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/267 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 13:42:15 -0700 X-UIDL: b4f933e574a1e1f2be849f4e390058a4 Kim, Yes, please send me your Max patches. I perhaps I can use parts of them. I just got back my echolplexes from Oberheim (probably w/o the upgrade, though -- they didn't specify whether or not they put the upgrade in.) I will send you any Max patches I come up with. Thanks! - Chris >I used Max for testing all the midi functions during the echoplex >developmet. The patch is a bit messy, but it is capable of executing all of >the midi stuff. You could easily lift pieces of it out to make sub-patches >for what you are talking about here. Want it? I'd be interested in any Max >patches you do. > _____________________________________________________ Chris Chovit avec@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov AVIRIS Experiment Coordinator ph: (818) 354-8077 JPL M/S 306-336 FAX: (818) 393-4406 4800 Oak Grove Dr. pager #: (800) 759-8255 PIN 834-3869 Pasadena, CA 91109 _____________________________________________________ From ???@??? Fri Sep 27 02:20:02 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 26 14:14:20 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v6NlD-0002tO-00; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 14:14:19 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v6NlB-0003wT-00; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 14:14:17 -0700 Date: 26 Sep 96 17:09:56 EDT From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: the ... update Message-ID: <960926210955_100041.247_JHB194-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"TdR6O.A.yqD.rHvSy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/268 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 14:14:17 -0700 X-UIDL: 26316825eb4548af8baa1fc4c7f08613 hi Kim, just to make sure: when the update comes, will it simply be a chip that I can put into a regular Echoplex (I assume this will be the case) or would one have to buy the complete new model because there are other changes which aren't limited to the software? In other words, is it worth trying to find an Echoplex now (with the option to update it later) or should one rather wait for the updated model? -Michael From ???@??? Fri Sep 27 02:20:12 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 26 14:59:33 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v6OSx-0003nT-00; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 14:59:31 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v6OSw-0004n5-00; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 14:59:30 -0700 Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 14:54:50 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: The Grass Roots Approach In-Reply-To: <9609261358.ZM150069@matisse.its.rpi.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"6YLAxD.A.scE.HxvSy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/269 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 14:59:30 -0700 X-UIDL: 0dc2f9a91618f7611742fe6bd7e52417 On Thu, 26 Sep 1996, Louis Collier Hyams wrote: > andre' > > what do the calartians have for machines now? web space and such? would it be > possible to use some of that? rippy(rpi) has relatively cheap per meg rates, > but my program is super intensive and may not have enough hours per carpeyed > diem. I'm not sure exactly what each student in the music department (or the general intitute) is allotted, but I'd be wary of using Cal Arts computers for a couple of reasons: 1) I'm basically HTML illiterate (I guess that makes me a pretty big geek on the list... or perhaps not enough of one? :-/ ) and 2) I can't really apply the time in would take to be able to Web everyone's profiles. Also, since this is my last year at Cal Arts, the data would eventually have to be transferred to a new localle anyway. I'll send a message right after this one detailing how I would like to proceed. > ps: what program are you in? music I take it... I got accepted into the > experimental motion graphics there. ended up choosing iEAR program for the > teachers and the ability to integrate here is very unique. departments seemed > very clicky and politic al when I was there. also, did they fix the hydraulic > stage after the earthquake? I'm in the Multi-Focus Guitar program. As far as cliquish behavior and politics, Cal Arts doesn't strike me as being any worse than your typical school with a limited budget, and a lot more open-minded than most. For me, this is probably the only place in the world I could go to and study what I want to study in an academic setting. And yes, the Modular Theater (with the hydraulic platforms) was repaired following the 1994 Northridge quake, as was most of the rest of the institute building. More to come, --Andre From ???@??? Fri Sep 27 02:20:15 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 26 15:45:33 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v6PBT-0004q2-00; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 15:45:31 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v6PBR-0005es-00; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 15:45:29 -0700 Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 15:12:55 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: PERSONAL PROFILES: Here's my plan Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"-DDqkB.A.6RF.JdwSy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/270 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 15:45:29 -0700 X-UIDL: 09586f0ab5165a0bd7e889f6f209aed3 OK, folks, this is how I'd like to proceed. I realize that not everyone has had time to pipe in with objections, but for now I'll submit my proposal and then see what objections there are. My idea is to set up a database of loopists at Kim's site, to get an idea of who is out there, where they are, what they're doing, etc. This could be cross-referenced by style, by name, and by geography. I *don't* intend for this to function as a comprehensive profile service, both in the interests of keeping the database relatively orderly and also in the interest of my ongoing mental health. Rather, this should be thought of as a sort of index of loopists, which can give an overview of the different people in the field and provide links towards more in-depth info about each of them. So my proposal is for the following information to be listed: NAME AGE ADDRESS PHONE E-MAIL URL PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR (or methodology for non-electronic loopists) INFLUENCES MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION ENSEMBLES AVAILABLE RECORDINGS CONTACT INFORMATION (if different from above) PERSONAL STATEMENT (something reasonably informative yet concise would be cool -- probably two to three paragraphs maximum). Anyone who's familiar with the Stick web site can see that I've basically followed their example. My idea is for anyone who's interested to copy the above info and forward it to me with their pertinent data. I can compile the results and forward them to Kim for upload to the annihilist.com site. Since I'm no HTML-er, and since it would be nice to keep the database relatively orderly, I'm proposing that detailed technical schematics, visuals, etc. be kept to a minimum (and if necessary, sent to Kim so that someone who actually knows what he's doing can deal with them). Obviously, links would be provided for those with a URL. Any of the above information in the form should be considered optional. If anyone has suggestions for additions or improvements, then let me know. But to set a timetable, let's say that unless any other changes are suggested, then the above format will take effect starting this upcoming Monday (the 30th). Starting then, people can e-mail me their profiles. I'll wait an additional week (until the following Monday, October 6th, at least, possibly later depending upon my class schedule), at which time I'll send them to Kim. Obviously the 6th isn't a final deadline for inclusion, but it'll be easier to ensure that your profile gets up on the web with the initial batch. So let me know what you think of this; barring any objections, you can start sending your stats to me on the 30th. Loop on, --Andre From ???@??? Fri Sep 27 02:20:20 1996 >From kflint Thu Sep 26 19:02:36 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v6SGA-0002hd-00; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 19:02:34 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v6SGA-0001Up-00; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 19:02:34 -0700 Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 18:56:31 -0700 Message-Id: <199609270156.SAA27392@barley.adnc.com> X-Sender: ambient@mail.adnc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: studio seventeen productions Subject: Re: Looping Setup/Matthias Comments Resent-Message-ID: <"J515HC.A.FYB.KWzSy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/271 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 19:02:34 -0700 X-UIDL: 87ec0fa19124d4d567ee0c239e25876a FIRST DAVE AT SEVENTEEN (ME) SAID: >>>The other is the 24-bit processer (TSR-24S) which has great sounding reverbs, >>>choruses, phase shifters, pitch shifters, you name it....but the trick >>>here is the use of >>>the continuous MIDI controller pedal. With one simple pedal I can take a >>>loop and >>>gradually bring it from a "dry" state into a huge cavern. Or vary the >>>speed of left to >>>right pan from very slow to incredibly fast. The CC can be assigned to >>>any effect >>>parameter....mix, reverb level, chorus speed, anything you want. THEN SOMEONE ELSE SAID: >> >>I'm not familiar (yet) with MIDI controllable eeffects, but I assume >>that each controllable parameter is a different "channel" or >>something, so that if you had enough controllers to mangle, you could >>hack them all at oncee. > THEN MATTHIAS SAID: >I also work a lot with the control of the size of the artificial room >(=reverb time) while playing. I think the listener ends up really living in >this room, and you can suggest to him that he has loads of space to stay in >peace or you can give him claustrophobia in a cabinet and he will suffer in >there. The change between these two extremes brings the contraction >relaxation movement that helps us to really solve problems and relax. ABSOLUTELY. I LOVE SUDDEN AND EXTREME CHANGES TO THE "ROOM" YOU ARE IN. SHOCK VALUE< BUT MUSICAL... >I have a Mitigator PCB that accepts 4 input voltages, coming from faders I >operate by foot. One is constantely on the reverb time of the PCM90, >another two for the characteristics of the effect on the PCM80 (depends on >the program, usually one Mix, the other Pitch or modulation rate) and the >forth for the FeedBack of the Plex. I'VE JUST (FOR THE 100th time) REBUILT MY PEDALBOARD AND REROUTED EVERYTHING. DETAILS WILL FOLLOWS WHEN TIME PERMITS, BUT NOW I HAVE THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS: I CAN LOOP "EFFECTED" SOUNDS AND THEN "EFFECT" MY ENTIRE LOOP. BIG FUN HERE AT 17... >Matthias > > KEEP ON LOOPING! dave @ 17 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 * * * * * * i'll be downstairs if you need me. * * i'll still be downstairs if you DON'T need me * * (Mr. Blint, Consequences/Godley & Creme) * * * * visit: http:www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html seventeen: the ambient music page 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 From ???@??? Fri Sep 27 10:21:27 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 27 05:30:28 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v6c3n-0002QL-00; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 05:30:27 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v6c3a-0002Z7-00; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 05:30:14 -0700 Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 14:28:43 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Pricing...and Sylvian In-Reply-To: <9609261358.ZM150069@matisse.its.rpi.edu> Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"2YmaaD.A.vYC.Pi8Sy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/272 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 05:30:14 -0700 X-UIDL: ee8b1832b853ff5eacaad0c03501f201 fiest, i've been finding a way to get a vortex in the U.S via guitar center, so I tahnk again everyone who helped.... I use the opportunity to ask the guy wether they would allow us a good price when when making a big massive order like the idea raised its head, not so long ago.... For the 'Plex, i'll have to wait for futher info, but for the jamman they offer a price of 300 bucks for 20 units ordered in miami (where i bought...). The other thing is "is there a miling list dedicated to D. Sylvian"? Anyone know? Olivier From ???@??? Fri Sep 27 10:21:34 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 27 06:51:41 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v6dKP-0003C5-00; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 06:51:41 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v6dKN-0003FR-00; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 06:51:39 -0700 Message-ID: <324BDB84.1C84@easyway.net> Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 09:49:56 -0400 From: Jonathan Brainin X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Pricing...and Sylvian References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JzhECD.A.nBD.mu9Sy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/273 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 06:51:39 -0700 X-UIDL: c3a8e41f0440d9466e73b65b53b98b71 Olivier Malhomme wrote: > > fiest, i've been finding a way to get a vortex in the U.S via guitar > center, so I tahnk again everyone who helped.... > I use the opportunity to ask the guy wether they would allow us a good > price when when making a big massive order like the idea raised its head, > not so long ago.... > For the 'Plex, i'll have to wait for futher info, but for the jamman they > offer a price of 300 bucks for 20 units ordered in miami (where i > bought...). > > The other thing is "is there a miling list dedicated to D. Sylvian"? > Anyone know? > > Olivier Olivier, check out the following link for all your Sylvian needs: http://www.io.tudelft.nl/~keesjan/music/sylvian/information/index.html I think it will answer all your questions. Jonathan From ???@??? Fri Sep 27 10:21:38 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 27 07:43:50 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v6e8r-0003el-00; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 07:43:49 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v6e8p-0003lg-00; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 07:43:47 -0700 Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 09:51:21 -0400 From: cwb@platinum.com (Clark Battle) Message-Id: <199609271351.JAA26679@octopus.ab.platinum.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Looping Setup/Matthias Comments X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"0zyDVD.A.0gD.df-Sy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/274 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 07:43:47 -0700 X-UIDL: f07c29e321c2f61f7122d1aa43685a81 >I'VE JUST (FOR THE 100th time) REBUILT MY PEDALBOARD AND REROUTED >EVERYTHING. DETAILS WILL FOLLOWS WHEN TIME PERMITS, BUT NOW I HAVE THE BEST >OF BOTH WORLDS: I CAN LOOP "EFFECTED" SOUNDS AND THEN "EFFECT" MY ENTIRE >LOOP. BIG FUN HERE AT 17... I was just wondering if this could be done with the echoplex and a TSR24s. Since the TSR24s has 2 processors, 2 inputs and 4 outs it should be possible to use one processor as a pre-loop effector, output it in mono to the echoplex, then return the looped signal back to the second processor of the TSR24s for stereo post-loop processing. Saving my bux, Clark From ???@??? Sat Sep 28 01:11:27 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 27 10:25:59 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v6gfm-0007Ep-00; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 10:25:58 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v6gfk-0000pY-00; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 10:25:56 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 10:22:04 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: the ... update Resent-Message-ID: <"GzBh7.A.vt.l2ATy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/275 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 10:25:56 -0700 X-UIDL: 01e3bd222c187ffb9a0c6c2a1d0fa970 >hi Kim, > >just to make sure: when the update comes, will it simply be a chip that I >can put into a regular Echoplex (I assume this will be the case) or would >one have to buy the complete new model because there are other changes which >aren't limited to the software? In other words, is it worth trying to find >an Echoplex now (with the option to update it later) or should one rather >wait for the updated model? > >-Michael It would be 2 chips (eproms) that you swap for the ones in there. Its just software, uses the existing hardware. There are a couple of new parameters, so you might want to put a sticker over a couple words on the front and pencil in the new ones. I'd say, if you are interested in getting the echoplex, go ahead and buy one now. The differences with the upgrade are more with intermediate and advanced features, the main functions (record, overdub, multiply, etc.) won't be different. So you can still get a lot out of the existing software! The new soft will just add some more... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sat Sep 28 01:11:28 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 27 10:26:02 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v6gfq-0007F0-00; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 10:26:02 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v6gfo-0000pc-00; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 10:26:00 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 10:22:07 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: PERSONAL PROFILES: Here's my plan Resent-Message-ID: <"xGXMqB.A.Gu.t2ATy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/276 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 10:26:00 -0700 X-UIDL: 377c33052b7f5218a2308825ca1c1521 >My idea is to set up a database of loopists at Kim's site, to get an idea >of who is out there, where they are, what they're doing, etc. This could >be cross-referenced by style, by name, and by geography. I *don't* intend >for this to function as a comprehensive profile service, both in the >interests of keeping the database relatively orderly and also in the >interest of my ongoing mental health. Rather, this should be thought of >as a sort of index of loopists, which can give an overview of the >different people in the field and provide links towards more in-depth >info about each of them. great ideas Andre! Thanks tons for taking this on..... >Since I'm no HTML-er, and since it would be nice to keep the database >relatively orderly, I'm proposing that detailed technical schematics, >visuals, etc. be kept to a minimum (and if necessary, sent to Kim so that >someone who actually knows what he's doing can deal with them). Obviously, >links would be provided for those with a URL. I can HTML-ize it, or I can get someone else to help out if I don't have the time then. (the way things have picked up in the past couple months, that seems likely!) We could even make a sort of html template that you could just paste stuff in as you get it. I'm thrilled that people are volunteering to help get this going! And really, more people means a wider breadth of ideas, more creative input, a higher level of enthusiasm, etc. etc..... >Obviously the 6th isn't a final deadline for inclusion, but it'll be >easier to ensure that your profile gets up on the web with the initial >batch. > >So let me know what you think of this; barring any objections, you can >start sending your stats to me on the 30th. sounds great to me, lets start getting our personal blurbs off Andre and get things moving! kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sat Sep 28 01:11:45 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 27 14:07:13 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v6k7s-00045Z-00; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 14:07:12 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v6k7s-0004S7-00; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 14:07:12 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 18:08:55 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Plex Pricing Resent-Message-ID: <"-3WLND.A.XGE.xFETy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/277 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 14:07:12 -0700 X-UIDL: 6b532b84b87120827e1ae0baac5f2888 >On Wed, 25 Sep 1996, Louis Collier Hyams wrote: > >> what's the word on waiting for the new software before plex purchase? > >My word would be that you're in for a long wait. The "official" word, of >course, is that release of the See You EW! (CU-EU) is right around the >corner, barring some "technical complications." But given some of the >problems I've heard people have had with Oberheim, I wouldn't be >surprised if the See You EW! never sees the light of day. I Oberheim gives up, we might make our version in Europa >I hope this is more a nihilistic worst-case scenario than an accurate >prognostication, but to me there are many reasons to assume that the >current non-upgrade version of the Plex is the only one we'll know, >glitches and all. If Oberheim gives up, we sell the upgrade directy, one way or the other, you WILL see it. Fingers crossed Matthias From ???@??? Sat Sep 28 01:11:48 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 27 14:12:56 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v6kDQ-0004Ci-00; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 14:12:56 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v6kDO-0004ZC-00; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 14:12:54 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 18:09:13 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Plex Pricing Resent-Message-ID: <"lI4O1B.A.nHE.MGETy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/278 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 14:12:54 -0700 X-UIDL: 4c1f3acdc45ad714987d093a2f7198a1 >if it is apaid TUPKAL then I'll have to wait, and blow my wad in a lump }8-> >collier Usually the slang expressions make text more fun, and a bit more difficult for me to read, but sometimes it reaches the point where I have no chance to understand what you mean, because no dictionary and no neighbour will help me! Sorry Matthias From ???@??? Sat Sep 28 01:11:46 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 27 14:08:20 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v6k8y-00046M-00; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 14:08:20 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v6k8w-0004TY-00; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 14:08:18 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 18:09:17 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: The grass roots approach Resent-Message-ID: <"Lb-1pD.A.0HE.PGETy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/279 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 14:08:18 -0700 X-UIDL: f232eae464ff94d4b26fa72c6deaba26 >andre' > >what do the calartians have for machines now? web space and such? would it be >possible to use some of that? rippy(rpi) has relatively cheap per meg rates, >but my program is super intensive and may not have enough hours per carpeyed >diem. > >ps: what program are you in? music I take it... I got accepted into the >experimental motion graphics there. ended up choosing iEAR program for the >teachers and the ability to integrate here is very unique. departments seemed >very clicky and politic al when I was there. also, did they fix the hydraulic >stage after the earthquake? > >collier What are you talking about, please? Sorry Matthias From ???@??? Sat Sep 28 01:11:53 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 27 15:19:36 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v6lFu-0005Wf-00; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 15:19:34 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v6lFt-0005gQ-00; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 15:19:33 -0700 Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 18:14:30 -0400 From: KRosser414@aol.com Message-ID: <960927181430_112652023@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Hello... Resent-Message-ID: <"y3zxE.A.0QF.JIFTy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/280 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 15:19:33 -0700 X-UIDL: 59125494892de9ff5ed9a5b69cd02380 Hi - I'm brand new here and thought I would start off by asking two questions: 1) Is there an archive of old messages? 2) I am a new owner of a Lexicon LXP-5, which I hear has some sort of looping capabilities. I'm still fishing my way through the owner's manual. Any tips on using this device for looping, and is there a way to play over a loop thus created? (Obviously the Jam Man is more specifically suited, I know...) Looking forward to being here! Ken R From ???@??? Sat Sep 28 01:11:56 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 27 17:10:55 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v6mze-00003n-00; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 17:10:54 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v6mzb-0007Xp-00; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 17:10:51 -0700 Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 17:04:24 -0700 Message-Id: <199609280004.RAA05253@barley.adnc.com> X-Sender: ambient@mail.adnc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: studio seventeen productions Subject: Re: Looping Setup/Matthias Comments Resent-Message-ID: <"UYRRP.A.KDH.BzGTy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/281 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 17:10:51 -0700 X-UIDL: e4f9ce3b5caaf42cd7bd76e2cda78839 At 09:51 AM 9/27/96 -0400, you wrote: > >>I'VE JUST (FOR THE 100th time) REBUILT MY PEDALBOARD AND REROUTED >>EVERYTHING. DETAILS WILL FOLLOWS WHEN TIME PERMITS, BUT NOW I HAVE THE BEST >>OF BOTH WORLDS: I CAN LOOP "EFFECTED" SOUNDS AND THEN "EFFECT" MY ENTIRE >>LOOP. BIG FUN HERE AT 17... > >I was just wondering if this could be done with the echoplex and >a TSR24s. Since the TSR24s has 2 processors, 2 inputs and 4 outs >it should be possible to use one processor as a pre-loop effector, >output it in mono to the echoplex, then return the looped signal >back to the second processor of the TSR24s for stereo post-loop >processing. > >Saving my bux, >Clark > > CLARK- It CAN be done, but I've opted not to. Reason being, you LOSE stereo completely. All those beautiful rooms disappear. The voices sound good in mono, but you lose that "space". Also, the task of programming each of hundreds of voices to be split would be mammoth. Doable, but no fun. I noticed that DIGITECH is making some kind of QUAD IN QUAD OUT devices....don't know anything about 'em, but maybe that's your answer. My setup pleases me, because GOING IN I have distortions, harmonizers, choruses, flangers, etc. and GOING OUT I have reverbs, reverse reverbs, and all the super quality effects of the TSR-24S........ have fun! dave at studio seventeen 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 * * * * * * i'll be downstairs if you need me. * * i'll still be downstairs if you DON'T need me * * (Mr. Blint, Consequences/Godley & Creme) * * * * visit: http:www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html seventeen: the ambient music page 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 From ???@??? Sat Sep 28 01:11:58 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 27 17:36:24 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v6nOJ-0001Jx-00; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 17:36:23 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v6nOJ-00009h-00; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 17:36:23 -0700 Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 17:29:57 -0700 Message-Id: <199609280029.RAA05410@barley.adnc.com> X-Sender: ambient@mail.adnc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: studio seventeen productions Subject: Re: simple loop idea Resent-Message-ID: <"HLOFe.A.XH.HLHTy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/282 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 17:36:23 -0700 X-UIDL: 47bfe60ab6c8f8542619a6130b88dabd >I've tried this before. If you're looking for clean transposition, >forget the Whammy pedal, since it imbues any signal containing more than >one basic note with a gurgling warblish sound. The first five minutes of >owning it, I freaked out over this ideosyncrasy, but have since come to >enjoy it for its own demented purposes. This "idiosyncrasy" is definitely annoying...BUT, it is a very interesting tool...especially if you do odd things like set the WHAMMY II to two octaves up and then run it thru your TSR-24S set to ONE OCTAVE DOWN...and then vary the pitch of either or both. VERY strange possibilities there. If the funny noise problem would go away, this would be the perfect pitch pedal. It's far more intuitive to use than any rack mount harmonizer, but it has a great range of features. (Programming the Programmable Whammy in the TSR-24S is quite involved...no glitches, but unless I want to spend 30 hours emulating all the stuff the "II"...you get the idea. dave at studio seventeen 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 * * * * * * i'll be downstairs if you need me. * * i'll still be downstairs if you DON'T need me * * (Mr. Blint, Consequences/Godley & Creme) * * * * visit: http:www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html seventeen: the ambient music page 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 From ???@??? Sat Sep 28 01:12:01 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 27 19:32:54 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v6pD3-0002qE-00; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 19:32:53 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v6pD3-0001nY-00; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 19:32:53 -0700 Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 19:26:48 -0700 Message-Id: <199609280226.TAA05986@barley.adnc.com> X-Sender: ambient@mail.adnc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: studio seventeen productions Subject: DIGEST please Resent-Message-ID: <"_DorP.A.QqB.h4ITy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/283 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 19:32:53 -0700 X-UIDL: 905f1fe0a891e6817809a874fd91bc3c KIM- any progress on the DIGEST???????? thanks! dave @ 17 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 * * * * * * i'll be downstairs if you need me. * * i'll still be downstairs if you DON'T need me * * (Mr. Blint, Consequences/Godley & Creme) * * * * visit: http:www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html seventeen: the ambient music page 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 From ???@??? Sat Sep 28 01:12:13 1996 >From kflint Fri Sep 27 23:25:17 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v6spw-0005Xq-00; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 23:25:16 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v6spv-0004nm-00; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 23:25:15 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960928063002.006d3b28@xenon.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@xenon.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 23:30:02 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: DIGEST please Resent-Message-ID: <"JhGobD.A.reE.VSMTy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/284 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 23:25:15 -0700 X-UIDL: 00bf98e43e90a3f56c76797ccd09a2d4 At 07:26 PM 9/27/96 -0700, you wrote: >KIM- > >any progress on the DIGEST???????? > uh, sorry..... Unfortunately I don't have sysadmin powers at my ISP, so for some things I can only ask them to do it and hope they're not too busy. Setting up the digest version is a bit involved, and when I asked them they were overloaded with other problems. So my prediction that it would be ready last week was a bit off! sorry about that. They have been gracious enough (or foolish enough) to trust my unix abilities and let me muck around with the list parameters however I like. This has generally worked out well, and I've been able to fix problems that have come up pretty quickly. The digest takes more, unfortunately. I've generally found that I get the best results by gently harassing them on a daily basis, which is how I got the list going in the first place. So it is partly my fault because I haven't been doing enough harassing in the past week. I'll try to get on that. If you note the time on this mail, it is currently 11:20pm, on friday, and I'm still at work, which has something to do with it.... (This is generally a good technique to keep in mind when dealing with excessively busy people. The trick is to be just irritating enough so that they don't forget and want to do your thing so that you will go away, without making them angry. You want to be nice and polite about it, because if you make them angry they will actually make an effort to not do what you want, and then you can just forget it. Keep this in mind when dealing with fast growing internet providers, certain musical instrument manufacturers, or your favorite list maintainer....;-) ) kim ___________________________________ Kim Flint OEM Engineering Chromatic Research 408-752-9284 From ???@??? Sat Sep 28 03:20:34 1996 >From kflint Sat Sep 28 01:39:27 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v6uvm-0003QL-00; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 01:39:26 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v6uvk-0006Jm-00; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 01:39:24 -0700 Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 10:38:35 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Plex Pricing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"CMHZvC.A.G6F.VQOTy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/285 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 01:39:24 -0700 X-UIDL: f31784a3dd3712572634770b2b48df0c >if it is apaid TUPKAL then I'll have to wait, and blow my wad in a lump }8-> >collier Definitely, i'm lost too as far as meaning is concerned (no pun....) My english an american slang dictionnary won't help me. I'm sure i'm missing something terribly important here... Olivier From ???@??? Sat Sep 28 03:20:35 1996 >From kflint Sat Sep 28 01:49:27 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v6v5S-0005Fi-00; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 01:49:26 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v6v5R-0006RC-00; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 01:49:25 -0700 Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 10:48:19 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: superimposing pitchshifter.. In-Reply-To: <199609280029.RAA05410@barley.adnc.com> Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"pqt4YB.A.EBG.cZOTy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/286 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 01:49:25 -0700 X-UIDL: 14e40e46b855d75f747d67327588fc7e I've tried also once the whammy. With a distorted sound, you gain on the sound and loose those blurble (in part) when routing the whammy before the distortion. Of course a lot of function of the thing are lost if distortion come after (lika having two voices making intervals) An other thing. once I ried something that i now will call "organ synthesis". Duh? By using two diferent pitchshifter, on set an octave above, with regeneration, and the other one octave lower than your signa, and with a bit of regeneration too. You route them in way that they are serial (is it english?) well, anyway, one goes into another. play then guitarn Stick, whatever you want, and you get an hammond sound (wel, do not exagerate too much olivier, will you?) Ok, an organ sound. Your shifter(s) are like drawbars and the basic tone voice of the thing is your instrument. Nice effect, powerfull sound, and a bit strange like something you know, but it is not exactly what it used to be.... Olivier From ???@??? Sat Sep 28 03:20:37 1996 >From kflint Sat Sep 28 02:15:21 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v6vUW-00028R-00; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 02:15:20 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v6vUU-0006hk-00; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 02:15:18 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 02:12:51 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Hello... Resent-Message-ID: <"2XLY_.A.HRG.6xOTy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/287 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 02:15:18 -0700 X-UIDL: fb2598a7f55d50008abb8f3353a4b376 Ken R said: >Hi - > >I'm brand new here and thought I would start off by asking two questions: > >1) Is there an archive of old messages? I am planning to do this, but haven't quite managed yet. There will be a section on the Looper's Delight web site with batches of past postings. You haven't missed a whole lot, really. Although we have been quite prolific, the list has only been alive for three weeks now. I'll let you know when post archives go up. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sat Sep 28 03:22:57 1996 >From kflint Sat Sep 28 03:23:15 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v6wYC-0003Ak-00; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 03:23:12 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v6wY8-0000oE-00; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 03:23:08 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="============_-1368212899==_============" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 03:19:57 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Technohoploops? Resent-Message-ID: <"v4o9-B.A.7q.6wPTy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/288 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 03:23:08 -0700 X-UIDL: 16a431824dcb09d9036da1f2a7b7ccea It should be attached.... >Kim, > >Yes, please send me your Max patches. I perhaps I can use parts of them. >I just got back my echolplexes from Oberheim (probably w/o the upgrade, >though -- they didn't specify whether or not they put the upgrade in.) I >will send you any Max patches I come up with. Thanks! > >- Chris > > >>I used Max for testing all the midi functions during the echoplex >>developmet. The patch is a bit messy, but it is capable of executing all of >>the midi stuff. You could easily lift pieces of it out to make sub-patches >>for what you are talking about here. Want it? I'd be interested in any Max >>patches you do. >> > > >_____________________________________________________ >Chris Chovit avec@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov >AVIRIS Experiment Coordinator ph: (818) 354-8077 >JPL M/S 306-336 FAX: (818) 393-4406 >4800 Oak Grove Dr. pager #: (800) 759-8255 PIN 834-3869 >Pasadena, CA 91109 >_____________________________________________________ Attachment converted: Macintosh HD:looper test (maxb/max2) (0000C5C4) ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Sep 29 11:54:50 1996 >From kflint Sat Sep 28 16:24:23 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v78k9-0006Z4-00; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 16:24:21 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v78k3-0003RK-00; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 16:24:15 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 20:25:46 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Hello... Resent-Message-ID: <"yq40vB.A.jID.PMbTy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/289 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 16:24:15 -0700 X-UIDL: 90dbdff7192f6179287010ab3ac972f1 >Ken R said: >>Hi - >> >>I'm brand new here and thought I would start off by asking two questions: >> >>1) Is there an archive of old messages? > >I am planning to do this, but haven't quite managed yet. There will be a >section on the Looper's Delight web site with batches of past postings. You >haven't missed a whole lot, really. Although we have been quite prolific, >the list has only been alive for three weeks now. I'll let you know when >post archives go up. > OH NO, I think you missed a lot, Ken. There have been very nice hints and storys. I was thinking of maybe do the work to collect those. An archive of all mails might be about useless after some time, because the subject usually does not point directly to the content (look at this very message!) and even less to quality. To judge quality is not a nice job to do. Throwing someones writing away, saying that it is not interesting for the later to come is somehow always wrong, but somehow necessary to keep the concentration for the stuff that really needs to live on. Maybe somebody could help me by doing the same in parallel and compare? Or we could share the work amongst the principal contributors. So Dave would compile the "amplification" directions, and Todd the "Vortex" hints and me the "loop magic" storys. Should I just start and present a file? Ideas, thoughts? From ???@??? Sun Sep 29 11:55:19 1996 >From kflint Sun Sep 29 07:47:48 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v7N9n-0000y8-00; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 07:47:47 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v7N9o-0000KT-00; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 07:47:48 -0700 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9609291019.ZM18349@marcus.its.rpi.edu> Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 10:19:35 -0400 In-Reply-To: Olivier Malhomme "Re: Plex Pricing" (Sep 28, 1:39am) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 07feb95) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Plex Pricing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"qzqaT.A.LR.nvoTy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/290 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 07:47:48 -0700 X-UIDL: 0773d6ff8248af73e633a626836ae8ef matthias and olivier. tupkal is the achronym we as a group have more or less given to the unseen echoplex systems upgrade. the second bit was about wise financial choices and when to purchase the echoplex. ie... what I meant was, (from my experiences dealing with most manufacturers) that I will wait until oberheim/gibson gets the plex to a state that I personally deem acceptable in order to avoid getting letdown(shit on, the shaft, diddled, stepped on) by the company. those are more expressions for you to work on. being a student again means I have to be very careful with money(deutsche mark, franck, yen, baht, pound, lire, dollar). sorry for the confusion collier I've been toying with the idea of setting up a mac IIci with hyperprism to do looping and midi controlled spacial effects. I might put a samplecell card in it also. anyone done this? From ???@??? Sun Sep 29 11:55:23 1996 >From kflint Sun Sep 29 11:32:10 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v7Qev-0004Uk-00; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 11:32:09 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v7Qew-0002FF-00; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 11:32:10 -0700 Date: Sun, 29 Sep 96 13:27:21 CST From: "Todd Madson" Message-Id: <9608298440.AA844029281@ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, ToddM@lasermaster.com Subject: Re: superimposing pitchshifter.. Resent-Message-ID: <"h4JtKB.A.RFC.zBsTy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/291 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 11:32:10 -0700 X-UIDL: 32a3c8775545bb44e853ec64fa6d6143 Re: Olivier's "Organ Synthesis": > An other thing. once I ried something that i now will call "organ synthesis". > Duh? > By using two diferent pitchshifter, on set an octave above, with > regeneration, and the other one octave lower than your signa, and with a > bit of regeneration too. > You route them in way that they are serial (is it english?) well, anyway, > one goes into another. play then guitarn Stick, whatever you want, and you > get an hammond sound (wel, do not exagerate too much olivier, will you?) > Ok, an organ sound. Your shifter(s) are like drawbars and the basic tone > voice of the thing is your instrument. Olivier: I did this on a track called "Ghosts" with two ART SGE's, and two Digitech GSP5's at one point about three years ago and got a similar result. Check out http://www.waste.org/~crash/index.html and click the crash icon - you can download a sample of what it sounded like. > Nice effect, powerfull sound, and a bit strange like something you know, > but it is not exactly what it used to be.... Right. It maintains the guitaristic elements of your instrument, but sounds a bit...odd. Glad to see someone else stumbled across this too. Received: from spica.LaserMaster.Com by ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com (SMTPLINK V2.10.08) ; Sat, 28 Sep 96 03:54:08 CST Return-Path: Received: from mouse.slip.net (mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102]) by spica.LaserMaster.Com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA02116 for ; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 03:54:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v6v50-0006QY-00; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 01:48:58 -0700 Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 10:48:19 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: superimposing pitchshifter.. In-Reply-To: <199609280029.RAA05410@barley.adnc.com> Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"pqt4YB.A.EBG.cZOTy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/286 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: ToddM@lasermaster.com Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 01:48:58 -0700 From ???@??? Sun Sep 29 15:06:41 1996 >From kflint Sun Sep 29 13:12:30 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v7SE1-0005sr-00; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 13:12:29 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v7SDx-0003J3-00; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 13:12:25 -0700 Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 16:10:18 -0400 From: KRosser414@aol.com Message-ID: <960929161018_296483703@emout18.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Hello... Resent-Message-ID: <"RXcEED.A.JFD.tftTy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/293 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 13:12:25 -0700 X-UIDL: f2b2c0d5c9747a43bb1eb20bc556dd6e In a message dated 96-09-29 15:31:55 EDT, you write: >>OH NO, I think you missed a lot, Ken. There have been very nice hints and >>storys. >> As a Vortex owner, I would be eternally grateful to anyone who could forward me some of the talk about that magnificent beast... Ken From ???@??? Sun Sep 29 12:43:35 1996 >From kflint Sun Sep 29 12:31:52 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v7Rah-0005Ku-00; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 12:31:51 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v7Rag-0002uV-00; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 12:31:50 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 12:29:19 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Hello... Resent-Message-ID: <"TG_YN.A.btC.25sTy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/292 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 12:31:50 -0700 X-UIDL: c3780f967249776b7444d1e1134fd83d >>Ken R said: >>>Hi - >>> >>>I'm brand new here and thought I would start off by asking two questions: >>> >>>1) Is there an archive of old messages? [kim said:] >>I am planning to do this, but haven't quite managed yet. There will be a >>section on the Looper's Delight web site with batches of past postings. You >>haven't missed a whole lot, really. Although we have been quite prolific, >>the list has only been alive for three weeks now. I'll let you know when >>post archives go up. >> [Matthias said:] >OH NO, I think you missed a lot, Ken. There have been very nice hints and >storys. > >I was thinking of maybe do the work to collect those. An archive of all >mails might be about useless after some time, because the subject usually >does not point directly to the content (look at this very message!) and >even less to quality. I think the thing we need is some sort of FAQ. We could condense the interesting discussions into key points and put them in neat categories. As more interesting discussions occur we can add those. At the same time, I'd still like to an archive of all the messages.There's no reason we can't have both. Doing the archive won't be too hard really. Especially after I get the digest version going, because then the server will be automatically combining messages into a single file on a regular basis. All I would have to do is put it in the proper directory for the web page and put a link to it somewhere. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Sep 29 15:06:43 1996 >From kflint Sun Sep 29 14:32:21 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v7TTI-0007Ga-00; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 14:32:20 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v7TTH-0004Eu-00; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 14:32:19 -0700 Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 14:28:29 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: PERSONAL PROFILES: A couple of other points Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"9QQovB.A.g4D.XquTy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/294 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 14:32:19 -0700 X-UIDL: 950df47b44bfc36c8aceb88fba31ec2e Hello again loopists: A couple of other things I'd like to ask before you start sending me your profiles tomorrow. First of all, in order to make this as hassle-free as possible, I'd appreciate it if you could enter the information directly into the profile form, make sure that it's correctly formatted (i.e. no wierd line breaks or other bits of oddness) and then send it back to me. This will make the process a great deal easier. Secondly, you should hold on to a copy of your own form in case something happens on this end. Mind you, I don't expect anything do go wrong, but it's better to cover all bases. Thanks for following the guidelines; you can start sending me the profiles tomorrow. And in case anybody's tuning in late or doesn't know what I'm talking about, I'm attatching another copy of the form below. Loop on, --Andre ------- *LOOPERS DELIGHT PROFILE FORM* (Fill in the information below and return it to altruist@shoko.calarts.edu for inclusion on the Looper's Delight Web Site.) NAME AGE ADDRESS PHONE E-MAIL URL PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR (or methodology for non-electronic loopists) INFLUENCES MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION ENSEMBLES AVAILABLE RECORDINGS CONTACT INFORMATION (if different from above) PERSONAL STATEMENT (something reasonably informative yet concise would be cool -- probably two to three paragraphs maximum). From ???@??? Sun Sep 29 17:42:20 1996 >From kflint Sun Sep 29 15:43:12 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v7UZr-0000Uh-00; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 15:43:11 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v7UZq-0001C3-00; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 15:43:10 -0700 Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 15:39:36 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: One more setail about personal bleebs for the web Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"qbw2CC.A.xDB.EtvTy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/295 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 15:43:10 -0700 X-UIDL: a95d453d51ce1b42666afdc4c22af20f One other thing, folks -- I'll assume that unless you mention other wise, any URL's listed in your profiles will automatically be linked when they're eventually uploaded by Kim. So if for some reason you don't want links on your URLs, let us know now! Best, --Andre From ???@??? Sun Sep 29 17:42:24 1996 >From kflint Sun Sep 29 17:18:18 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v7W3t-0002yt-00; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 17:18:17 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v7W3u-0003jC-00; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 17:18:18 -0700 Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 17:14:30 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Yet another category Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"xT0A7C.A.vdD.7FxTy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/296 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 17:18:18 -0700 X-UIDL: ebd1213ff054fc492520812838def202 Matt McCabe has suggested a "primary instrument" category be added to the profiles; sounds good to me. I leave it to ye to include it in the forms. Loop on (and on and on and on...) --Andre From ???@??? Sun Sep 29 21:55:32 1996 >From kflint Sun Sep 29 21:02:38 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v7ZYz-0005mG-00; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 21:02:37 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v7ZYu-0007Bj-00; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 21:02:32 -0700 Date: 29 Sep 96 23:59:14 EDT From: Teed Rockwell <74164.3703@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: simple loop idea 2 Message-ID: <960930035913_74164.3703_GHQ54-2@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"hUq2QC.A.RsG.NY0Ty"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/297 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 21:02:33 -0700 X-UIDL: 4b1a9a5b80b4259efb249d8c7f279bb9 Clark writes: Back when i had a 2 sec looper my favorite thing to do was to build impossibly fast chordal passages with guitar loops. I would input one chord at a time (sometimes one note at a time) and stagger them so that they were very close together. I discovered this technique by acccident by playing a 3 over 4 cross rhythm. When you get to the second time around, all of the beats in the 3 pattern are now 1/2 beat away from the first time you played them, and you get this exact rapid fire effect. Teed Rockwell 74164.3703@compuserve.com From ???@??? Sun Sep 29 21:55:31 1996 >From kflint Sun Sep 29 21:02:34 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v7ZYw-0005m7-00; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 21:02:34 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v7ZYr-0007Ba-00; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 21:02:29 -0700 Date: 29 Sep 96 23:59:20 EDT From: Teed Rockwell <74164.3703@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: Amplification Message-ID: <960930035920_74164.3703_GHQ54-3@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"PlNi8C.A.YsG.OY0Ty"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/298 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 21:02:29 -0700 X-UIDL: 37510d1b39313bbfbb613cac2c4a354f of course, all of this talk about how inconvenient and unpredictable and noisy guitar amps are is absolutely true, and I fought using a guitar amp for years for just that reason. Unfortunately, for my sound at least, none of those tube preamps, or Sansamp amp emulators can come even remotely close to duplicating the sound of a good all tube guitar preamp. Its easy to talk yourself into believing that it does, when you think of all the trouble the guitar amp causes, but in my case, I'm certain that they don't come even close. Teed Rockwell From ???@??? Sun Sep 29 21:55:35 1996 >From kflint Sun Sep 29 21:44:34 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v7aDa-0006JM-00; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 21:44:34 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v7aDZ-00007M-00; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 21:44:33 -0700 Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 21:42:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609300442.VAA24749@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: Looping Setup Resent-Message-ID: <"LChQ6.A.aF.LA1Ty"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/299 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 21:44:33 -0700 X-UIDL: 6c38e9bbe76f007f5e7d8d32db946be4 > >Now for the adventurous, I encourage you to explore beyond the cheesy >faders and footpedals. Check out the Buchla Thunder and Buchla Lightning. >These instruments are designed and built by the enigmatic Don Buchla, who >is considered to be the co-father of synthesizers as musical instruments, >along with Bob Moog. Don is brilliant, and quite possibly one of the most >visionary people to ever enter the craft of musical instrument design. >Naturally the industry ignores him and no one buys any of his stuff. >Doesn't help that he's more than a little unusual and difficult to work >with, but share a bottle of wine (or 3 or 4, probably) with him and you >won't regret it. Anyway, unlike Moog, who builds theremins somewhere in New >York, Don is still creating the future. Distant future probably! I didn't know that Buchla was still at it! I've wanted one of his modular analogue synths since before I bought my (brand new) Pro-1 (i.e., a long time ago). Thanks for the pointer! BTW, Bob spent quite a few years at Big Briar trying to sell 4-d synth controllers and stuff, before he gave up and turned to the Theremin business. From ???@??? Sun Sep 29 21:55:36 1996 >From kflint Sun Sep 29 21:47:35 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v7aGV-0006LW-00; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 21:47:35 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v7aGU-0000CX-00; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 21:47:34 -0700 Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 21:45:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609300445.VAA24837@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: Looping Setup Resent-Message-ID: <"K0onQB.A.EK.tC1Ty"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/300 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 21:47:34 -0700 X-UIDL: 05b9405f84723e26b24e6ddfa2e2b4b0 BTW, there's no info on Thunder or Rain & Wind on Buchla's web pages. And the Thunder is $2k! Yow. For that price, etc. From ???@??? Mon Sep 30 01:07:11 1996 >From kflint Sun Sep 29 22:38:09 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v7b3Q-000732-00; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 22:38:08 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v7b3P-00012V-00; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 22:38:07 -0700 Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 22:36:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609300536.WAA26999@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: Unidentified subject! Resent-Message-ID: <"9s6L7B.A.o8.Ny1Ty"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/301 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 22:38:07 -0700 X-UIDL: 7a3fafe39fc3cfe842cb6899db2187a0 >Their SoundEdit does it for cheap, and they say it sounds much better than >RealAudio... Could it be worth the investment of the like 300 bucks (less, >if bought together with DECK), since we are going to offer a lot of sound >samples, I hope :) ? No matter how much dough I might have, $300 for a file type conversion is not cheap. If they build it into the next version of Deck, I may just spring for the upgrade. . . From ???@??? Mon Sep 30 01:07:13 1996 >From kflint Sun Sep 29 22:58:26 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v7bN4-0007KX-00; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 22:58:26 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v7bN4-0001Na-00; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 22:58:26 -0700 Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 22:56:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609300556.WAA27571@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: A life of its own (was Re: Vortex Loops Using Deja Vu B) Resent-Message-ID: <"5oL1LD.A.8QB.-E2Ty"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/302 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 22:58:26 -0700 X-UIDL: e7d7b49e0c3c4327c9ba5ae5742ab5af Kim Flint writes: >One time I looped a little sound made by scratching the sixth string of a >Les Paul with my fingernail, then letting it ring a bit. I reversed it, and >suddenly it was a completely beautiful, mesmerizing noise. Hard to describe >it. Sort of a cross between the om sound for meditating and a digeridoo. That's funny: the last few nights playing with the Vortext, I've spent quite a lot of time looping sounds made by scratching the strings with my fingernail, a very stiff pick, a screwdriver, muting the strings and banging on them with a screwdriver, banging on the strings above the nut, etc. On another loopers' tool, I've been having mixed results with my new ebow. It sometimes takes quite a while for the string to start to ring, especially when I'm trying to bring out a harmonic that isn't the octave. Any tips? From ???@??? Mon Sep 30 23:22:03 1996 >From kflint Mon Sep 30 01:39:20 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v7dsk-0005S4-00; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 01:39:18 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v7dsl-00038H-00; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 01:39:19 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 01:36:41 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: A life of its own (was Re: Vortex Loops Using Deja Vu B) Resent-Message-ID: <"pfcT9C.A.U6C.Kc4Ty"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/303 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 01:39:19 -0700 X-UIDL: 7b81e08589281a1f12ba90b29457bd1f Ray wrote: >On another loopers' tool, I've been having mixed results with my new >ebow. It sometimes takes quite a while for the string to start to >ring, especially when I'm trying to bring out a harmonic that isn't >the octave. Any tips? In addition to the e-bow, I use a Fernandes Sustainer guitar for this sort of thing. It has a switch that lets you put the sustainer circuit in three different modes. One generally sustains the fundamental, another the second harmonic, and the third some higher harmonic. The third mode is really cool, because it basically makes the guitar sound as if you were getting a massive feedback sound, without the ear destroying volume. It also has a level control that basically sets how quickly the note begins sustaining. It is quite a bit faster than the ebow, but I find the two are not quite the same and still use both. Also, using the Fernandes sustainer usually means you are stuck with the Fernandes guitar. I got the cheap-o one, and I don't really care for it much for anything other than the sustain sounds. You can get these installed in other guitars, but it is quite difficult. You have to find a tech that knows how to do it, and it will be expensive. I think Gary Brawer in San Francisco does this; I know someone that had these things installed in some PRS guitars and I think Gary did the work. Anyway, I really like using this with loops. One of my favorite things is to overdub many layers of one "feedback" tone, making a huge sound. Often times I'll use the whammy bar at the same point in the loop on each pass through, usually pulling it in different directions and different amounts. So the loop will go along with some big, consonant sound and then slowly go completely psychotic. Another thing is to make big sustained chords by sliding to a different note on each overdub pass. Since I have such a strong aversion to anything consonant, this usually means stacked half-step intervals, tritones, +5's, major 7's, and such. Actually, even that doesn't sound out anymore, so it often means bending in quarter tones for more microtonal chords. Your mileage may vary.... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Mon Sep 30 23:22:16 1996 >From kflint Mon Sep 30 10:03:45 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v7lku-0005Jb-00; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:03:44 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v7lkt-0005iG-00; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:03:43 -0700 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9609301301.ZM769@wolf3.vlsc.rpi.edu> Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 13:01:44 -0400 In-Reply-To: Ray Peck "A life of its own (was Re: Vortex Loops Using Deja Vu B)" (Sep 29, 10:58pm) References: <199609300556.WAA27571@pure.PureAtria.COM> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: A life of its own (was Re: Vortex Loops Using Deja Vu B) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"llrfpC.A.xUF.h0_Ty"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/304 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:03:43 -0700 X-UIDL: eb2fb670e1e14cc1c29c59c878ab9c1f ray, have you used ebow in the past? many people try to use mine (1 early 80's and one aluminum) give up. once the principal is understood they can usually get it. some try to push to hard or otherwise unoptimize string to magnetic field variables. (even though those techniques work great when done intentionally. check the batteries(of course) some people prefer partially discharged batteries for their response check placement of ebow over pickups spend a lot of time without the guitar plugged into the amp. ie acoustically all the technique and tone should begin this way. ok, that's my few cents From ???@??? Mon Sep 30 23:22:17 1996 >From kflint Mon Sep 30 10:07:28 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v7loV-0005N5-00; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:07:28 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v7loW-0005nd-00; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:07:28 -0700 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9609301305.ZM780@wolf3.vlsc.rpi.edu> Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 13:05:29 -0400 In-Reply-To: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) "Re: A life of its own (was Re: Vortex Loops Using Deja Vu B)" (Sep 30, 1:39am) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: sustainor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"eALWT.A.OaF.B4_Ty"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/305 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:07:28 -0700 X-UIDL: c0d44bdaf0923d29bafcdf3faaa3bbdd kim! whatup... so, about these fernades sustainors... who what when and where can I get the parts from? Fernandes isn't entirely helpful, do you have a contact there? Dealers seem to be useless. I'll be perusing pawn shops in NYC collier From ???@??? Mon Sep 30 23:22:20 1996 >From kflint Mon Sep 30 10:26:36 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v7m71-0005lR-00; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:26:35 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v7m71-0006AG-00; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:26:35 -0700 Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:22:51 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: E-bow tips In-Reply-To: <199609300556.WAA27571@pure.PureAtria.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"SOffSB.A.JwF.DKAUy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/307 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:26:35 -0700 X-UIDL: e649b44d725b7c679455825520ffb263 > On another loopers' tool, I've been having mixed results with my new > ebow. It sometimes takes quite a while for the string to start to > ring, especially when I'm trying to bring out a harmonic that isn't > the octave. Any tips? Try pressing the bow closer to the string -- in other words, if there's a "default" spot where the bow is resting along the two guide grooves, then pressing down further so that the bow is in greater proximity to the string will help sound the string faster. Also be very aware of where you're placing the bow in relation to whatever pickup you're using; the closer the bow is to the currently selected pickup, the more signal you're going to produce. Additionally, lightly fretting the note in question with the left hand will help start the sound (not much help when talking about natural string harmonics, I know). Also be sure and listen to the tape that comes with the bow. I put off listening to it myself for almost six months after I got it, and when I finally got around to it I was stunned at some of the sounds that can come out of the thing. Like the slogan says, "Infinite sustain is only the beginning." (Now where's my endorsement deal?) Good luck, --Andre From ???@??? Mon Sep 30 23:22:52 1996 >From kflint Mon Sep 30 18:00:17 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v7tC3-0007lu-00; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 18:00:15 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v7tC0-0007Sc-00; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 18:00:12 -0700 Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 09:50:45 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199609302350.JAA29647@clothes.peg.apc.org> X-Sender: nextwave@pop.peg.apc.org X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: nextwave@peg.apc.org (Next Wave Festival) Subject: Re: Unsubscribe Resent-Message-ID: <"_w_zrB.A.NzG.0sGUy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/309 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 18:00:12 -0700 X-UIDL: 31302f9f8d6fef0764cc38deb2c63810 Kim, Hi...I have to unsubscribe. I simply can't take the volume of all these individual files, if you ever get a digest together then contact be back....but for the moment...forget it! But please see if you can send me the echoplex manual as a file or something.....thanxs....... Cheers, Zane. Next Wave Festival 31 Victoria Street Fitzroy VIC 3065 Australia Ph: 61 3 9417 7544 Fax: 61 3 9417 7481 nextwave@peg.apc.org http://www.peg.apc.org/~nextwave/ From ???@??? Mon Sep 30 23:22:54 1996 >From kflint Mon Sep 30 18:00:34 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v7tCL-0007mI-00; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 18:00:33 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v7tCJ-0007TL-00; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 18:00:31 -0700 Message-ID: <01BBAF0A.3C203CA0@ppp7.fcol.com> From: George Henry To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: Personal Profile Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 19:59:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BBAF0A.3C41CE60" Resent-Message-ID: <"Ht9BAD.A.kzG.5sGUy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/310 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 18:00:31 -0700 X-UIDL: 0f3ab12738a028f28bf09dfb5c080bbc Name: George Henry Age: 42 Address: 12870 East Daybreak Court Jacksonville, FL 32246 Phone: (904)221-6438 E-Mail: windharp@fcol.com URL: None presently; will announce when I get one. Primary Looping Gear: I use a Roland VG-8, which provides a maximum delay of 1023 ms; and a crude audio editor that came bundled with a sound card. I would like to acquire PC-based audio software, and possibly a dedicated looping instrument as well. Influences: Too numerous, eclectic, and wide-ranging to list (seriously). Musical Style / Concentration: I am working toward an integration of freely flowing improvisation with discretely composed (i.e. sequenced) musical parts. Two different parts of my brain know how to make music in their own separate ways. I'm hoping for interesting results when I get them working well together. If I wanted to find my music in a store, I'd probably look in the "ambient" category. Ensembles: Cirrus Susurrus Personnel / primary instruments: George Henry - Chapman Stick and Roland VG-8 Cynthia Henry - Zendrum Available Recordings: None; working on a demo. Personal Statement: I've been interested in looping since hearing "Frippertronics" and some Steve Reich pieces a few years back. Cindy and I have been avid music fans since childhood. I've played guitar since I was 14, and Cindy used to play the flute. We have lately adopted the notion that we would like to create and publicize our own musical expressions. A rough translation from Latin of "Cirrus Susurrus" is "Whispering Wisps" ... not intended to give the false impression that our music is always subtle and unobtrusive. Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Attachment converted: Macintosh HD:Personal Profile (????/----) (0000C8D7) From ???@??? Mon Sep 30 23:22:51 1996 >From kflint Mon Sep 30 17:59:33 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v7tBM-0007ju-00; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 17:59:32 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v7tBK-0007R4-00; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 17:59:30 -0700 Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 17:07:13 -0700 Message-Id: <199610010007.RAA23329@barley.adnc.com> X-Sender: ambient@mail.adnc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: studio seventeen productions Subject: Re: E-bow tips Resent-Message-ID: <"_OWPLB.A.AzG.wsGUy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/308 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 17:59:30 -0700 X-UIDL: d8876d984e25b65d0963982ccd438e1f At 10:22 AM 9/30/96 -0700, you wrote: >> On another loopers' tool, I've been having mixed results with my new >> ebow. It sometimes takes quite a while for the string to start to >> ring, especially when I'm trying to bring out a harmonic that isn't >> the octave. Any tips? > >Try pressing the bow closer to the string -- in other words, if there's a >"default" spot where the bow is resting along the two guide grooves, then >pressing down further so that the bow is in greater proximity to the >string will help sound the string faster. Also be very aware of where >you're placing the bow in relation to whatever pickup you're using; the >closer the bow is to the currently selected pickup, the more signal >you're going to produce. Additionally, lightly fretting the note in >question with the left hand will help start the sound (not much help when >talking about natural string harmonics, I know). > >Also be sure and listen to the tape that comes with the bow. I put off >listening to it myself for almost six months after I got it, and when I >finally got around to it I was stunned at some of the sounds that can >come out of the thing. Like the slogan says, "Infinite sustain is >only the beginning." (Now where's my endorsement deal?) > >Good luck, > >--Andre > > Since EBOW has been my specialty fo about 15 years... I might add to all this: try using the EBOW backwards. (FACING THE TREBLE PICKUP). Once I saw Bill Nelson doing this I adopted it and never looked back (about 10 years ago???). I very RARELY direct it towards the bass pickup anymore....the treble is great, much better attack, much brighter...but the best trick of all: turn the tone control for the treble pickup to OFF (full bass) and then EBOW against the treble pickup. eiree and cool. enjoy! dave at studio seventeen 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 * * * * * * i'll be downstairs if you need me. * * i'll still be downstairs if you DON'T need me * * (Mr. Blint, Consequences/Godley & Creme) * * * * visit: http:www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html seventeen: the ambient music page 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 From ???@??? Mon Sep 30 23:22:57 1996 >From kflint Mon Sep 30 18:26:52 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v7tbo-0000cC-00; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 18:26:52 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v7tbl-0000FG-00; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 18:26:49 -0700 Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 18:15:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: finley@ecst.csuchico.edu (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: finley@ecst.csuchico.edu (Matthew F. McCabe) Subject: JamMan page Resent-Message-ID: <"Kc6gB.A.-L.-LHUy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/311 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 18:26:49 -0700 X-UIDL: 7553dd68f448e2f9260020ec6adc3556 Greetings all! I'm putting together a JamMan page for the web page. If you have any tips/ideas please drop me a line. Thanks! Matt ------------------------------------------------------------ King Never http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~finley/kingnever.html ------------------------------------------------------------ Matthew F. McCabe Able Cain King Never Marathon Records From ???@??? Mon Sep 30 23:23:00 1996 >From kflint Mon Sep 30 18:59:41 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v7u7Y-0001Bt-00; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 18:59:41 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v7u7X-0000pR-00; Mon, 30 Sep 1996 18:59:39 -0700 Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 21:57:01 -0400 From: RA336@aol.com Message-ID: <960930215701_115087114@emout03.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: hyperprism Resent-Message-ID: <"wwSTNC.A.Iv.wqHUy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/312 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 18:59:39 -0700 X-UIDL: 58b7c01e0f8ce3ba027861d33a8e49f2 >I've been toying with the idea of setting up a mac IIci with >hyperprism to do >looping and midi controlled spacial effects. I might put a >samplecell card in >it also. anyone done this? - Torn has. The results (in his hands, anyway) are all over his latest; "What Means Solid, Traveler?" we also used this technique a bit on my record... it's fun and the results can be utterly unworldly. have fun! Robby Aceto