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Re: Switching Echoloop VST Params Using Ableton Dummy Clips



MORE SOLUTIONS !!!!  :)

Since his note below, Matthias and I spoke offline about these things, so I'm gonna summarize here for the benefit of any following this thread now or in the future :)

- - - - -

The Presets via Program Change method covered earlier in the thread works great. We have not established why my VST menu does not update to reflect changes, but Matthias' menu does.

That said, it is really a Plan B solution - what i was initially seeking was more acute. 

- - - - -

THE PROBLEM

Imagine a continuous control with a range of 0-127. 

Normally one would map a knob to that and be done with it. But in this case, it is the Subcycles param for my Echoloop VST, and I simply want a quick, precise, way to assign a specific value: 2, 4, 8, 16, 9, etc... It's maddening to do this with a knob or fader or text entry. A button is really called for.

SO on the EDP, the way we get around this is by saving and recalling Presets. But this is rather heavy handed, especially in a software environ where we want more  acute control.

I had thought of using dummy clip envelopes, but that only partially worked; then I thought of using MIDI clip control  envelopes, and that was super complicated and only partially worked; using MIDI learn in Ableton was not possible I thought because Ableton does not allow many-to-one mappings.

At an impasse :)

- - - - -

THE SOLUTION !!

Here is the final, and correct, solution:

1. Expose the desired control using Echoloop's 'learn' process (in this case, Subcycles). This surfaces in the VST UI as a 0-127 slider.

2. Map that slider to a button on whatever control surface you will be using. You will want to send a CC message with a value attached.

In my case I was using a Korg NanoPad2, but found that it did not allow transmission of a specific value; so I moved to buttons available on a Korg NanoKontrol2 and found that they do indeed allow transmission of values for CC message.

3. Now, create as many more buttons as you need, but use the exact same CC# for each... and for each, send a different value: 4, 8, 16, etc.

This seems very clever to me, works like a charm, and seems obvious in hindsight - but despite quite literally 4 days of banging my head against this problem (home sick with nothing else to do !), the solution has eluded me.

I bow down to the Masters on this list, and especially Matthias - really loving Echoloop :) 

Best,

Phil :)




On Jul 28, 2012, at 6:06 PM, Matthias Grob wrote:


On 28 Jul 2012, at 5:44 PM, Phil Clevenger wrote:

You are of course correct that the Echoloop is responding to Pgm Changes, but I could not see that - because the Preset Banks popup menu does not update to show the current preset when it's being switched remotely !  (prolly worth a bugfix?)

I wonder what menu you talk about… the one in the Live Echoloop GUI works here!
in Bidule, the one in the VSTGUI window works too.
could it be that you looked at Echoloops Setup menu? that serves for MIDI and such settings and is not related to Presets

Digging deeper for testing, i set up 16 distinct presets with Subcycle values of 1,2,3,4,5 etc... and sending Pgm Changes 0-15 via direct MIDI was in fact correctly updating params as stored in the presets for the VST.

So - halle-freaking-lujah, there is a way. What I *wanted* was a discrete control for each param I want to change or hit, but upon inventory it's clear the net of all those is under a dozen basic states for the VST. So, the preset change works and accomplishes that - and I get what I need.

Thanks Andy, Per, Matthias, and everyone else who has suffered through this thread with me :)

great that you are happy with your solution Phil!
but let me show the method I suggested and just tested:
- in Live's Echoloop thing (their, not our GUI) activate Configure
- in our Echoloop GUI, go to MIDI (on the left) and there to Learn (almost on the right) and select the parameter you want (Quantize, for example). this makes the parameter Quantize appear in the Live Echoloop thing
- top right you go to MIDI (which is like MIDI learn)
- select the Quantize or whatever parameter in Lives Echoloop thing
- send the MIDI command to Live
- switch off Live's top right MIDI and go to Local in the Echoloop GUI and verify that it works!