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Looper's Delight
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Very much like my Ableton setup :) On May 11, 2012, at 11:03 PM, Gmail wrote: > I'm loving this topic! This was one of my biggest issues when i first > started looping about a year ago. I loop with FL studio hosting mobius. > I have a continuous project/setup that I work on. Basically all of my > software instruments are what I call prEQ'd. Each track first sends from > the plugin to track in FL Studio. The EQ effects and other pre-effects > are applied in these tracks. I call them the input tracks. The audio > output of these channels is linked to the audio input of mobius which is > then recorded and looped. Mobius plays what I call "dry loops" because > even though the instruments were recorded with pre-mobius effects, the > effects are there to make the instrument sound the way its supposed to > as if there were no effects to it. Then the audio output of the mobius > tracks are linked directly back into a separate set of FL studio tracks > that I call the ouput. Each output track one has an instrument-specific > effect that is post-mobius. Therefore I can modulate the playing loops > with things like high cut filters, low cut filters and etc. Then all of > out put tracks are linked into one, main FX track. With this track i can > modulate effects onto the entire output of the audio. For example I have > every instrument sound looping at once; I can turn up reverb on the Main > FX channel and this reverb will apply to every instrument. > > Kaylon > > On May 11, 2012, at 9:30 AM, Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Highly relevant thoughts, Philip! Mixing and live looping is closely >> related, but still very different in praxis. >> >> My concept for live looping is what I use to call "the musician >> concept". For sound design I use what I call "the reverse engineered >> mixing technique". What I mean with this is that I apply everything to >> my live instrument input sound that you in a mixing situation would >> apply to each of the tracks to be mixed. EQ, effects, compression, >> even effect loops with the return channel side-chained by the live >> input (my instrument). Many effects are quite subtle and dynamic >> processing often synced to the looping tempo. The theory is to make >> your instrument sound in a way that works well for layering. I >> typically do all this to my instrument signal PRE loop, so every layer >> I overdub into a loop may have different effects in order to blend >> well as a multi layered loop. >> >> There is also different concept for live looping that I use to call >> "the re-remix concept". Many Ableton Live users fancy this concept >> because Live allows you to treat separate parallel loops individually; >> running each looper channel through its own mixer channel. This is >> exactly how you do when mixing and you can achieve sonic perfection. >> One records loops at different channels and then apply effects and >> processing POST loop. My problem with this method is that it takes >> quite a lot of time to get it to sound good any by the birth of your >> masterpiece the audience might have gone home. >> >> An important aspect of my "musician concept" is that when looping the >> already perfected sound into just one or a few loops you are keeping >> all options at hand for drastic rearranging on-the-fly as you perform. >> For example, it is much easier to keep the show going when putting one >> multi part loop into half-speed compared to putting five separate >> parts loops into half-speed. >> >> Of course, with my musician's concept reverse-engineered mixing >> technique your strategy is crucial. It is possible to paint yourself >> stuck into a corner. When that happens the only way out is to kick >> Global Reset and start over from square one - if done as one move >> while the music is going the audience will just hear it as a >> break-down section or similar. Most important for my performance >> strategy is to instantly tag musical parts to decide what kind of loop >> I'll layer them into. These are the types of loops I have chosen to >> work with: >> >> 1. Tonal loops that can be speed shifted, in order to create chord >> changes, without too much rhythmic hassle. Often pad type sounding. If >> using a polyphonic instrument I can create such a loop by just playing >> a chord and record it, but if using a monophonic instrument I use to >> overdub many notes to form a chord. >> >> 2. Atonal loops with percussive content. These loops are not being >> speed shifted when I improvise chord changes by speed shifting a type >> #1 loop. >> >> 3. Loops created for the purpose of poly rhythmic interaction with >> another loop. Such a loop plays by a different length than the one it >> plays against. >> >> The above is the corner stones of my instant composing technique. >> >> As for the noise issue you brought up I'm all for shutting up when not >> playing and muting the input between played notes. On my Stratocaster >> I play with the volume knob. You can mute between fourth notes using >> the pinky on that knob. When using wind instruments and a mic I have a >> volume pedal directly after the mic to mute the leaking PA sound from >> getting into the loops. I even use this volume pedal for note attack >> sometimes, when playing heavily distorted flute it is a must and part >> of the instrument. >> >> When playing an instrument with several audio signals I always keep >> all inputs going plus all effect returns going to the looper, >> following the what-you-hear-is-what-you-loop routine. Everything in my >> live looping rig is set up for instant performance access. Everything >> is PRE looper. The stereo looper output is totally dry, just with a >> little compression added to make it groove better. The reverb and >> delay effects heard are all recorded into loops. This makes it >> possible for me to apply drastic on-the-fly cutting to the full mix, I >> can play the mix instantly like you play an instrument, that's why I >> call it "a musician based concept". >> >> Greetings from Sweden >> >> Per Boysen >> www.perboysen.com >> http://www.youtube.com/perboysen >> >> >> On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 5:21 PM, Philip Conway >> <Philip.Conway@bristol.ac.uk> wrote: >>> Hello all, >>> >>> >>> Some recent discussion on the list (when not heatedly debating Youtube >>> sensations, of course) has focused not just on looping but also on >>> recording >>> and mixing generally. That there is a high level of expertise on these >>> subjects in the LD community is perhaps not surprising but it raises >>> some >>> questions in my mind about the relationship between looping and >>> recording/mixing. >>> >>> Since we're generally talking about LIVE looping then many of the >>> practices >>> of recording musicians just don't apply - for example, we don't do take >>> after take trying to make things perfect, we work with the >>> imperfections >>> inherent in performance, etc. And yet, on the other hand, ultimately >>> what >>> we're doing is recording and combining multiple layers of audio and so >>> many >>> principles of 'non-real time' recording and mixing are very important. >>> >>> For example, I use a laptop, an Apogee Duet and Mobius hosted in >>> Ableton >>> Live to loop my guitar. One problem I've struggled with is how to set >>> up an >>> appropriate gain structure to keep the noise floor low (very important >>> if >>> you're using single coils!) while not clipping the inputs or eating up >>> headroom in the software too quickly, using up space for further loops. >>> >>> With an instrument like an electric guitar that has a large dynamic >>> range >>> and can fill up the audio spectrum quite quickly I've found that >>> compression, limiting and EQ are as essential to my setup as anything >>> else. >>> >>> But enough about me! >>> >>> What's your experience with this relationship? >>> >>> Do you 'mix' your loops as you go or simply adjust your technique to >>> achieve >>> a range of sounds? >>> >>> Do you anticipate the needs of the audio you're about to record or >>> tweak >>> things as you go? >>> >>> Do you find that lessons learned in mixing recorded music inform your >>> looping (or vice versa)? >>> >>> Am I just over-thinking the grand old art of the loop? >>> >>> >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> >>> Philip. >>> >> >