Re: OT The Sub Pulse was West African/African Diaspora rhythms: 3/4,4/4, 6/8, 12/8

["Mark Showalter" <folkstone57@operamail.com>]

> 
> 
> üddly enough, I am sure Monty Python would do a good job conveying 
> what the sub
> pulse is. 

Agreed, although the explanation would probably involve soft pillows & 
Carol Cleveland in scanty attire which I don't think would do much to 
clear up the issue....
 
I did take thta trip to the bottom of the ocean and I did 
> get a sense
> of the sub pulse.
Good for you!

 By the way, I also struggled with Einstein and then after
> years I got it. The focus should be placed on experiencing, perceiving, 
>rather
> than understanding.

I think you've got that the wrong way round: the focus should be on 
understanding by experiencing, perceiving.  Einstein clearly stated he 
wanted to understand how the universe worked.

 People who discover stuff in physics have a flash, they do
> not build theories like lego; that part comes after. Math was 
> created to convey
> these illuminations to others who hopefully speak mathematics.
 I agree that does ocassionaly happen, but there have been lots of 
examples of a theory that was built up over a long period of time & then 
the evidence for or against came round. Just take relativity for example: 
the idea that light bends ( yes, it came in a "flash"  pun intended ) but 
the professor had to do a lot of work to get it right including having the 
amout of bending off by half at first.


 The 
> accent should
> be put on getting it, having the same or a similar experience, 
>recreating the
> original illumination.

Absolutely agree. As in science, we should all be able to do the same 
experiment or have the same experience & get the same results.

 So let's imagination some conditions which would be
> favorable to experience of sub pulse, let's be illuminated.

I would say a clear definiteion would be a good place to start.

 Then we 
> will go see
> what the girls are doing down there with my double.

I doubt my hormoans would survive that experience!
> 
> Antony
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Mark Showalter <folkstone57@operamail.com>
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Sent: Mon, September 13, 2010 12:58:22 AM
> Subject: Re: OT The Sub Pulse was West African/African Diaspora rhythms: 
>3/4,
> 4/4, 6/8, 12/8
> 
> 
> 
> >
> > hey let's hear it.I am curious to learn. So is Mark he just has that 
>British
> > humor about him.
> 
> Very good observation Anthony & yes I am a big fan of British humor, 
>especial
> Monty Python.
> 
> > Antony Hequet
> >
> > ***************************************************
> >
> >
> > I really don't want to get you wrong (and please correct me if I'm 
>mistaken),
> > but what I am
> > understanding about your stance here is that you seem to be 
> > dismissively telling
> > us
> > that you don't understand a musical level of sophistication that 
> > is understood
> > by
> > tens of thousands of groove musicians around the planet (whether they 
>use the
> > term
> > 'sub pulse' or not) and that you profess to have no desire to 
> > educate yourself,
> > or
> > grow further as a musician, merely because it is a concept that 
> > was not included
> > in
> > your entirely Euro-centric (albeit rigorous and valuable) education 
>about
> > musical styles.
> 
> Hm....in fact, I think what I was going for was that I am clearly 
>ignorant of
> many things, one being what a "sub-pulse" is & another example I 
> gave of clearly
> not having augmented sixths in my head, which I don't. As for 
> "Euro-centric" I'm
> not exactly sure where you came up with that one from as I am a big fan 
>of
> oriental/Indian music & rhythms & both Ravi Shankar & his daughter are 
>amazing
> musicians even though I have no problem admitting that I have a hard time
> getting their sound in my head as well because I simply don't understand 
>it,
> even though I love the music. As for being "dismissive", that was not my
> intention. I was rather trying to avoid another flurry of emails about 
>what a
> "sub-pulse" is because I have noticed a tenancy in these discussions to 
>get so
> far off topic that I find it almost impossible to get any kind of idea 
>of what
> the discussion is really about. If you'd like to start an email about 
>what a
> "sub-pulse" is that would be great & I would welcome the chance to learn
> something new. My statement about several drummers/percussionists 
> attempting to
> explain the idea to me & my example of the poor fellow who took the trip 
>with
> Albert Einstein was meant to illustrate my own current problem with
> understanding what my drummer/percussionists friends were trying to 
>explain to
> me.
> 
> 
> > I certainly have respect for the 8 years you spent studying 
> > Harmony and Melody
> > in a rigorous academic environment.
> 
> Thank you although it wasn't that rigorous actually. And my 
> emphasis was Theory
> & Composition, not Harmony & Melody.
> 
> > I just find it curious that you don't seem to have the same respect 
>for my
> > (or any other drummer/percussionist/arrangers) knowledge
> > which has been accrued from 40 years of playing in popular styled 
>bands as a
> > band leader,
> > arranger, composer, producer and instrumentalist(33 of them as a 
> > professional).
> 
> I don't recall making any statement that I don't have any respect 
> for you or any
> other person's knowledge, as once again, I was pointing out my own lack 
>of
> understanding. If you feel that this indicates me showing a lack of 
>respect, I
> must admit that the connection escapes me entirely. BTW,Ringo is one of 
>my
> favorite drummers, as well as Bill Bueford & Steve Gadd if this helps at 
>all.
> Also, Nick Mason who as well as Ringo both of whom "float" better 
> than any other
> drummers I've ever heard.
> 
> 
> 
> > I'm positive I could learn a thing or two from you about the 
> > things you have so
> > deeply studied and am eager to do so if the chance presents itself.
> 
> Happy to be of service at any time.
> 
> > I wonder why you don't appear open to knowledge  that I (or some other
> > drummer) could teach you about the world of rhythm, conversely.
> 
> Again, this is not the case. I have been a teacher since I was around 17 
>years
> old & the core of being a teacher is learning. As Socrates once 
> said when asked
> what all his wisdom had gained for him, he replied: " That there is 
> so much that
> I do not know" .
> 
> > The concept of a sub pulse is a very simple one and can be 
>demonstrated very
> > easily with a few
> > choice examples. This concept absolutely defines
> 
> ( I am not a big fan of "absolutes" as I have often found when 
> someone uses the
> word that they tend to quickly find the word was ill chosen )
> 
> the way human
> > beings respond
> > to
> > syncopation on a neurophysiological level and is easily 
> > demonstrable with sonic
> > examples.
> 
> If you are saying that syncopation is a "sub-pulse", then it is not 
> necessary to
> explain any further. However, I suspect it is not so simple an answer, 
>no?
> 
> > I'd be happy to share it with you unless you feel your mind is closed.
> 
> Now who's being dismissive?
> 
> 
> --
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>



Mark Showalter
Minden Jot!

myspace.com/folkstone57
http://www.last.fm/music/Mark+Showalter
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