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Re: Music is not political (Was Re: music is political)

On Apr 5, 2006, at 7:35 AM, Stephen Goodman wrote:

> ----- Original Message ----- From: "a k butler"  
> <akbutler@tiscali.co.uk>
> To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, 05 April, 2006 10:48 AM
> Subject: Re: Re: Music is not political (Was Re: music is political)
>> At 20:56 04/04/06, you wrote:
>>> i think Attali's point about a future stage of "composers" (which he
>>> wrote 30 years ago), where the former passive consumer of music,
>>> whose main function was a capitalistic one of purchasing recordings
>>> of music, instead in some fashion creates (or 'composes') their own
>>> music has proved somewhat accurate. he could not forsee PodCasts,
>>> file sharing, mash-ups, ableton Live, and so on, but given his
>>> remoteness his prescience seems remarkable.
>> so you think capitalists are turning into artists because they can  
>> take someone else's music and re-sample it?
> I would put forth that they're not really "artists" per se, but  
> then my dividing line between "creatives" and "non-creatives" tends  
> to be well-defined.  Resampled material is one of those items that  
> creates firefights on this newsletter, but it's just not on the  
> same level of artistic endeavor as original music is.  A "mash-up"  
> of Bowie's "Ashes to Ashes" is not an original song, although  
> whatever resampling/remixing done might be original in nature.  The  
> area of what "art" is, is currently blurred, thanks to the flux  
> period we're going through regarding what music production/creation/ 
> composition/performance "is".  I'm confident that at a point in the  
> future real artists will emerge from the current melange of  
> material, but for now they get either smothered, reconverted or  
> outright shelved by big music companies, who still don't Get It.

the point is not wether or not, or how, creative a mash-up or  
sampling or something is. the point is that the "consumer", or the  
"listener", is changing in that he is less passive. instead of just  
buying a recording he is making something at least a bit more his  
own, more individual.

>>> i think people who don't "believe" in politics are playing into the
>>> hands of those systems who would control us.
>> Where are these people who don't believe in politics?
> I don't "believe" in politics, as a one-size-fits-all solution to  
> anything. But I've gone over this before already, and can balance  
> it out with the statement "I hate politics, and I hate it even more  
> when I have to participate."  Democracy is like that, in that it  
> requires participation by as many as possible.  So perhaps it could  
> be said that, as Afghanis find their way to democracy, the big  
> record companies will find their way to being able to both discover  
> and distribute creative 'product' someday - else their roles will  
> become one of distribution and marketing.  (I don't think they can  
> see this coming any more than they anticipated P2P, the Internet,  
> or portable music devices)

politics is the interrelations among people. if you live, you are  
participating, wether you like it or not. maybe not well, maybe not  
for the good of your fellows or even yourself, but that's a different  

>> We all believe that the government exists. ( possibly not  
>> Klobucher...who can tell)
>> Rather there are people who believe that politics is the  
>> government of a country.
>> ( oh, and the study of the government of a country)
>>>  at least privately realize the political ramifications
>>> of their participation in the world in all its aspects, and not to
>>> deny these things.
>> The government of the country you live in won't be influenced by  
>> the music that you play.
> Yep, unless the country's small.  Then you never know!

these things work on the level of a society, over generations, not  
one person here or there. look at historical examples. why was God  
Save the Queen banned from the radio?

>> just quoting loads of stuff doesn't make a case.
>> There's plenty of dictionaries that connect politics with government.
>> The Wikipedia can be edited by anyone, so how do we know you  
>> didn't just change
>> it before quoting it :-)
>> If "everything is political", then the word "politics" becomes  
>> useless.
> Shh!  We need someplace for political addicts to go to when we  
> don't need them!  :)
> Stephen Goodman

someone asked for a definition of politics so i provided several from  
several different online sources. if you read the definitions you  
will see that "everything" is not political.

such denial of responsibility some people have!

speaking of quotations i am reminded of a few relevant ones:

"If voting could make a difference it would be illegal." - Theodore  

"Now that I look back, I realize that a life predicated on being  
obedient is a very comfortable life indeed. Living in such a way  
reduces to a minimum one's own need to think." - Adolf  Eichmann  
(Memoirs, written after 1960 kidnapping by Israel for WWII atrocities)

"The ideals which have always shone before me and filled me with the  
joy of living are goodness, beauty, and truth. To make a goal of  
comfort or happiness has never appealed to me; a system of ethics  
built on this basis would be sufficient only for a herd of cattle." -  
Albert  Einstein

"Let no one imagine that in owning a recording he has the music." -  
John Cage, Silence, p.128

"Theatre takes place all the time wherever one is and art simply  
facilitates persuading one this is the case." - John Cage, Silence, p. 

"If you steal my horse I can't ride, but if you steal my song I can  
still sing it." - Unknown

"Anarchy doesnt mean no rules, it means no rulers." - Edward Abbey

"The truth is there is an ideological struggle between those who  
believe that the best way to grow the economy is to give more money  
to the wealthy, and the Democrats who believe that the wealthy will  
make more money if average people do better." - President Bill  Clinton

"Talk of democracy has little content when big business rules the  
life of the country through its control of the means of production,  
exchange, the press and other means of publicity, propaganda and  
communication." - John Dewey

"Some people giving orders and others obeying them: this is the  
essence of servitude. Of course, as Hospers smugly observes, "one can  
at least change jobs," but you can't avoid having a job -- just as  
under statism one can at least change nationalities but you can't  
avoid subjection to one nation-state or another. But freedom means  
more than the right to change masters." - Bob Black (Source: The  
Libertarian As Conservative, 1984)

"The hottest places in Hell are reserved for those who in times of  
moral crisis preserve their neutrality." -- Dante