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RE: Power of the Eventide Eclipse / Virtual Guitar Racks/Systems

"btw, I'm sorry this whole exchange didn't get posted, so we could get
other input; I fell for that "reply to Krispen, send to Krispen" bug!"

[I'm posting this exchange between David and I for reference, because of
the computer-based guitar system discussion]

Well, I guess I'll stay put and see what virtual guitar rack/systems
come out for computers, something like Guitar Rig, except
better....imagine an Eclipse, H6000, PMC-91, PMC-81, and TC Electronix
Fireworx all in a virtual, computer based guitar system.  I could do
without all the vintage effects in the Guitar Rig system. I'd rather see
new effect simulations.  I mean, look a this:

Look at all that old-looking stuff in there....wouldn't it be great if
all those were replaced with newer units?  It's seems ironic that they
would pack a totally modern, computer-based system with a bunch of
archaic pedal craaa...I mean, gear. :)  I'd like to see a system that
isn't dripping with propietary look and feel, like the green tube
screamer module, or the red distortion module, etc.  How about just a
Delay Module? And inside that, tons of parameters and flexibility, etc.


-----Original Message-----
From: David Coffin [mailto:dpcoffin@earthlink.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 7:06 PM
To: info@krispenhartung.com
Subject: Re: Power of the Eventide Eclipse

Your predicament sounds almost inescapable to me, I'm afraid.  There's 
something cool I wish I could still duplicate from almost every piece 
of gear I've ever owned and sold...which is why I've got so much unused 
gear still lying around! I don't know the Akira, but no matter how many 
new bells and whistles Boss ever adds to their GT-whatevers, they'll 
never be Vortex's, etc., etc....

What we need is a two-device rack: one device for infinite sonic 
mangling/voice re-design, and another for ambience/looping... The 
problem is the first one! Nothing's all-purpose enough yet. The Eclipse 
or the KSP8 would be a great choice for unit 2, but so would dozens of 
other cheaper alternatives.

I do think the ultimate solution is in the computer...or at least in 
hardware devices that take advantage of plug-in logic, so they can be 
easily updated, or even completely reconfigured, without becoming 
obsolete, and can draw on a wide range of developers. My work is all 
done in my studio, so I don't need to worry much about portability, but 
I'm very tempted to dump everything except maybe some outboard reverbs 
and preamp/amp sims (and of course the VG-8) in favor of a dedicated 
processing PC (even as a Mac devotee, I must admit that the most 
innovative stuff is coming out for the PC these days; or maybe it's 
just the sheer volume of stuff that's PC-only). The Plugzilla, Receptor 
and the Soundart Chameleon--even the OpenLabs stuff--are all stepping 
in the right direction but don't seem clearly there yet (the first 2 
still aren't plug-and-play with any and all VST plugins, for 
example)...and the Eventide VSig thing is just too bloody expensive 
(that's the idea of patching your Orville or H8000 or DSP7500 into a PC 
and using their proprietary software to visually patch objects into new 
algorithms) and even that is by no means user-friendly, as far as I can 
tell. I actually bought a Kyma system a few years back, and hated it; 
terrible FX-processing presets, for my ears, anyway, and required WAY 
too much DSP and programming smarts to be a useful processor; i didn't 
want to learn a whole new language, just plug in and tweak out! I LOVE 
Reaktor as a signal processor, but on my Macs, it is too glitchy 
compared to hardware to take out or even record with very happily. Even 
if the glitches (drop outs, static bursts, overloading...latency's not 
a problem, tho) are few and far between, they are completely 
inevitable, at least in my experience. Per Boysen's the one to watch 
for all of this laptop as processor stuff...it's coming!

btw, I'm sorry this whole exchange didn't get posted, so we could get 
other input; I fell for that "reply to Krispen, send to Krispen" bug!

...interested in what you come up with!

On Feb 23, 2005, at 4:15 PM, Krispen Hartung wrote:

> Well, I guess I'm looking to do one thing:  Streamline/simplify, yet 
> maintain my diversity of tone mangling sounds, backed by good reverb, 
> chorus, and delay.  In short, I'd like to get the sounds I have now, 
> or at least most of them with a 1/4th of the gear.  Basically, how I 
> got myself into this predicament is simple. I find an effect unit that

> does one thing well, such as my Boss SX-700 for chorus and delay. 
> That's all I use that for. Then I find another unit that has great 
> reverb, like the Lexicon LXP1...great unit. Then I find another that 
> really mangles sounds, like the Vortex, VF1, Akira. The rack keeps 
> getting bigger. I'd like to find a few units, two at most, that can do

> all of this.  I figured the Eclipse and the Lexicon PCM81 might be a 
> good combo, but bloody expensive!!!
> I like your comments below. The Eclipse probably isn't for me.
> Honestly,
> I am quite pleased with the quality of the units I have now. It's just
> the space. As you say, I primarily use the same chorus, delay, reverb
> all of the time to generate my ambience...then I cycle between the 
> units
> for other effects, synth tones, pads, etc. Some of them are in series,
> others in parallel via the aux sends...no complaints here.
> Your comment about the PC intrigues me. Can I really create a dream 
> system with my laptop? Please tell more....what about issues with 
> latency, etc.
> Kris
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Coffin [mailto:dpcoffin@earthlink.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 1:06 PM
> To: info@krispenhartung.com
> Subject: Re: Power of the Eventide Eclipse
> Short answer: Keep your ____ (insert ONE favorite from your current 
> list [I'd choose something with COSM, personally]), and send it thru 
> an Eclipse.
> Over-long, rambling answer:
> Kris, where are you going with your FX, anyway? Are you looking 
> primarily for new sounds, or better versions of familiar sounds? Do 
> you ever use all of your current boxes at once, or do you mostly cycle

> between them? Are you using a mixer and doing lots of parallel FX 
> processing, and love it, even tho you're always running out of FX 
> sends and returns?  Do you take any advantage of the COSM 
> amp/distortions in your Boss gear? Do you tend to push your existing 
> gear to the limits of it's unique capabilities (like morphing with the

> Vortex, or slow-gear or pitched ring-modulation or acoustic simulation

> on your VF-1, etc....)? Are you constantly rearranging FX order in the

> Boss multiFX? Do you enjoying mucking around with endless options 
> until you stumble onto something unique, carefully save all 
> settings...and then never go back to them because new possibilities 
> are more seductive than old ones...or are you looking for ultimate 
> plug-and-play/set-and-forget configurations?
> I'd say that if you tend more towards complexity and are always 
> looking for twisted new sounds to run into your favorite ambience FX, 
> you'd quite soon feel stunted with JUST an Eclipse (once you get past 
> the god-it's-gorgeous! honeymoon days). You DO need to have one, of 
> course, at least for a while....but selling everything to get one will

> only work in the short term.
> IF, however, you are already getting the basic tones you need without 
> your mentioned FX and mostly want something that's a super-Hi-Fi 
> enhancements to these, an Eclipse will be a lovely and long-term 
> friend, especially if it's the quality of the boxes you currently have

> that's making you feel like ditching them. I certainly love mine, but 
> have never found it to be an "It-does-EVERYTHING!" wonder-box; it's 
> the bottom of the line Eventide, after all, designed to be the least 
> expensive route to classic Eventide sounds and audio quality. To get 
> "no algorithm restrictions" power from an Eventide, you need to hunker

> down with a VSig-capable one, like the DSP4000 at least, and a good 
> PC.
> Study the Eclipse preset and algorithm guides online, remembering that

> you can combine ANY 2 of the first 100 presets...so, for instance, 
> once you find a basic "chorus, delay, reverb" algo to put in slot 2, 
> you can still use any other algo in slot 1. You won't find the same 
> variety of tone-altering options you already have in a single Eclipse 
> algo, but you WILL find many sounds in there you can't currently 
> match, esp. in the pitch-shifting and filtered-delay realms. Most of 
> the weird and deliciously disposable noises you can easily coax out of

> lesser-quality but more multi-featured and more accessible toys like 
> the Bosses you already have, are pretty much not in the Eclipse, in my

> experience...but lots of other stuff is. Also, I've never heard an 
> Eventide guitar distortion I've liked at all...but YMMV. dc
> On Feb 23, 2005, at 9:26 AM, Krispen Hartung wrote:
>> If I were to sell all of my rack effects tomorrow (Boss VF-1, Akira, 
>> Vortex, Boss SX-700, Boss GT-3, Lexicon LXP1 and LXP5, would the 
>> Eclipse keep me interested and diversified enough? Would I be able to

>> have chorus, delay, and great reverb, plus cool tone altering effects

>> all at the same time? With no algorithm restrictions, etc.