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Looper's Delight
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Hi Greg, > How can you do that 100% of the time? A lot of musical gear is highly > subjective, and you can read reviews for weeks and never know if YOU > will like the sound of a particular unit until you can play with it > yourself. Do you go to the local music store (LMS) and use them as a > demo center, and then make your purchase from an online vendor? I don't > do that myself. I'll only try something in an LMS if I think I might > buy it there. Anything beyond that seems like I'm taking advantage of > them. > I can do it because I don't buy that much gear. I'm not someone who shops around for effects--I just play as a hobby so I don't have a lot of interest in achieving a specific sound. My Zoom 9002 lasted for 8 years and I was happy with the sounds I got out of it (also I wasn't playing as much in those days). I've had a Digitech RP-7 since the 9002 died and I recently bought a Zoom PS02 (the RP-7 was bought at a local shop, the PS02 from zZounds). No, I try not to demo things at a local shop and then buy on the Internet--I think that's unfair to the local store. (I was trying to say in my last post that I don't like to do this--maybe I wasn't being clear, sorry.) > Sure. You focused on the convenience to the vendor, but it's also more > convenient to you. It costs you nothing to wander into Joe's Music to > try out that distortion box that you end up not liking. If you buy it > online and don't like it, you have to 1) pay for it up front, 2) pay > for the shipping, 3) wait a few days to get it, 4) keep it in pristine > condition while you try it to find you don't like it, 5) call up for an > RMA, 6) take it to the shipping vendor, 6) pay return shipping. > Yes, I agree there is more convienence in shopping locally which is why it's surprising many people go online to save $20... By the way, to be fair to zZounds I did not have to pay any shipping for the returns because in the original shipment a tube that I ordered for my RP-7 was broken (the worst packaging I have ever seen, no peanuts or paper to prevent the DL4 box from slamming into the tube holder which only had a minimal bubble-wrap around it--this is another reason I'm not happy with zZounds). > I might disagree. the LMS's have created a lot of this problem > themselves. Many of them charge absolutely usury prices on things, > unless you argue like you're in a Middle Eastern Bazarre, and a lot of > people just don't like doing that. Many of them have the rudest > employees I've ever encountered in a retail establishment. Seriously, > the only retail place I can think of where I feel less comfortable then > most music shops is a used car lot. I find them both distasteful and > avoid most of the time. > True, the local stores were taking advantage on their monopoly. However, now that local shops no longer have a monopoly they are worth going to again because they *have* to be more competitve price-wise. For example, a local store in my hometown (not where I am now) sells guitars for the Internet price! They have realized that they won't do any business otherwise. So online merchants have been beneficial in this respect... > Beyond that, the other clientelle is often even more rude then the > employees. How can you demo a piece of studio-quality gear when you > have Eddie Van Kornhead blasting a Marshall stack 10 feet away? How > long does it take to demo something? The last time I went to an LMS, I > was there for half an hour looking around and a young man sat there > playing a high powered halfstack the entire time (he was there before I > came in, and was still there when I left...) WITHOUT CHANGING THE > SETTINGS ON EITHER THE AMP OR THE GUITAR! Literally over an hour with > one tone. It would have been pretty hard to try something out that > day... > I agree that's extreme. When I bought my latest guitar (Guild S-100) a few months ago I took my Zoom PS02 and headphones along to the store. This was very useful because: 1) I was familiar with the sound ofthat setup and, 2) I didn't have to annoy anyone else with my playing. ;-) > Ok, so I try something out in the store, think I like it, but then get > it home and find it has some fatal flaw (like the midi implementation > is so bad that it won't work with my other equipment). Many LMS's I've > encountered had terrible return policies. > Yes, I can see why you would want to return it in that case. But that shouldn't be an issue with something like a DL4 which has no MIDI control. And from what I've heard (from other people) the DL4 sounds are great--it's surprising that someone wouldn't like the way it sounded with their equipment at home. > The price issue is tough. It'd be a lot easier to deal with if the > difference wasn't so big. I've frequently found things through mail > order for (say..) $75 that a LMS absolutely won't budge below $150. > Sorry, but that's double the price. My equipment budget is pretty > limited as it is. > Like I said above, many stores are realizing that they *have* to compete with the online vendors. It might take a while, but eventually I doubt you'll see a local store charging double--no one would buy it. > That's the other problem. At least in NH, you have the greater Boston > area within driving distance. Here in Kansas, it's a 3 hour drive to > get to anything beyond a Mom & Pop sized music store. Pro audio? Not in > this state. > Where I'm at Boston is 2.5 hours away. True, there are some other cities that are closer such as Concord or Manchester, but they're still over an hour away. It would be hard to establish a "relationship" with those stores. But I checked and a local music shop has a DL4 for $249 which what I was paying at zZounds anyway... > I don't have a problem with them sending me something that someone else > tried out (and returned in perfect condition), EXCEPT if they tell me > it hadn't been opened. That's really the only issue I see in your > original gripe. You asked for an unopened box, and they told you that's > what you'd get. That should have been the end of it. If they'd told you > that they couldn't insure the one you got hadn't been opened, then > that'd be a different thing, but that's what they promised you, so > that's what you expect. > Yes. If they had just said that they couldn't guarantee a new one would be sent I may have just kept the first one and been done with it. But when I called and told them about the broken tube and then mentioned that the DL4 wasn't factory sealed they offered to send me another one. I specifically asked whether it would be brand new and I was told it would be--the guy said he'd put a note on the order to that effect. But when I got the replacement order the packing slip *had* a note about better packaging for the tube but there was no note about a factory sealed unit. So basically I was lied to and that's what really burns me... > Service is a commodity we're all suffering problems with, and it's not > just music stores. Local computer stores are just almost as bad. When I > call for customer support at many places, I get the run around. Stores > treat you like dirt. Etc. > Hopefully some don't treat people like dirt--we just have to find the good ones... > That's basically what I'm complaining about with local stores. If they > offered better service, and a fair price (not necessarily a LOWER, or > equal price) it would be a hands down win. But...they offer lousy > service, rude employees, an uninviting atmosphere, very high prices, > poor selection, etc. About the only advantage is that they might have > the thing in stock where you could try it. Even that doesn't always > happen. I went to a music store one time to try out a guitar, and the > sales person offered to PLAY IT FOR ME, "so I could hear it". I told > him that I wouldn't buy anything I couldn't try myself and was told > "you might scratch it". (and it wasn't like they had any reason to > think I wouldn't be careful, I was like 32 years old at the time, > dressed well, etc!) I walked, never went back. What a joke. > Obviously, some stores don't deserve our business and, if there is no alternative, then mail order makes sense. But I find myself looking to mail order first which makes me wonder what I'm thinking. The other reason to stay local is to keep the money in your own community. A lot of towns are in trouble because the local businesses have been forced to close. Musician's Friend and zZounds don't pay any taxes to support my community... > It's stuff like that which makes me want to buy mail order. But..even > then, I'd be hesitant to buy something liek a guitar mail order, even > within the same make & model, they feel and sound different. How could > you know what you were getting? > Yeah, nothing is cut and dried--but I think I'm going to try to buy local from now on when I can... Cheers, Keith