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Re: MIDI Still?

FWIW, I suspect that MIDI over the internet would be much higher
than .004 ms.

Theoretically, MIDI over a standard network transport would be
just as fast as any other data transfer.  MIDI messages are
typically 2 to 3 bytes long.  Rather teeny, so you could easily
bundle a bunch up and send them out all at once.  However, I
think the real limitations would be:

A) The Internet itself as a distributed network.  There's no
garuntee that you network packets would all arrive in the
correct order (which could be compensated for) or in a
consistent space of time.  This is because they could
theoretically be sent down any number of paths to get to the
same destination.  Streaming media gets around this by
buffering.  Buffering introduces latency.

B) The biggest problem might be that because of inherent
variable latency, (packets could take as long as 10ms to
traverse the internet, never mind the inherent latency of the
hardware midi device itself) there would be an audible lag
similar to that of satelite phone conversations, if not
necessarily so extreme all of the time, making it very hard to
jam with someone in real time, unless you were both imitating
whale songs.

I've never actually tried to do this, so it's all just my
conjecture based on what I know.

Personally, I would've loved to see ZIPI live.  Ob la di.  I
think yamaha or someone is working on a new digital standard for
transferring audio and midi data over a single high bandwidth
connection.  That might have the potential to overcome some of
the latency issues based on the fact that MIDI is a 32kps (I
think) serial protocol, and buffer overflows can still occur.
Networking is really a lot about buffers ....



----- Original Message -----
From: "Todd Quincy" <tquincy@sayhhi.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 9:22 AM
Subject: RE: MIDI Still?

> For all the really smart people out there.
> A midi event or singal can be sent over data lines (the
internet). But how
> fast is it, and is a midi signal the fastest vehicle musicians
have for web
> jams...
> I supposed there will always be a delay in audio, something
like .004 ms. or
> something (anyone know for sure) This delay which is fine for
phone calls,
> but not a jam.
> Is midi our best bet to beat the delay, won't it enable us to
one day jam
> with others on line to a preset time code, swapping and
sharing midi evnet
> files from our repeater and edp in timecode?
> (In the virtual world,  what is realtime to me may still be 4
seconds behind
> you, but when you're sync'd to a clock what does it matter? As
long as the
> tempo stays the same for all involved.)
> PART 2
> Anyone using rocketnetwork?
> thanks
> tq@openjam.com
> > ----Original Message-----
> > From: Kim Flint [SMTP:kflint@loopers-delight.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 1:51 AM
> > To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> > Subject: Re: MIDI Still?
> >
> > At 10:04 PM 8/22/2001, Mark wrote:
> > >You know, there's been a lot of talk about MIDI on this
list, and it's
> > >short comings.  MIDI has been around since the early 80s
(late 70s if
> > >you count Sequential Circuits version)
> > >
> > >What the hell is going on?  Did we loose a war?
> >
> > me ug-ug. me musician. me no want new thing. me want to bang
> > designed
> > exactly the same way they designed the stick 2 million years
ago. me pay
> > lot more if you call it vintage.
> >
> >
> > >I know that Kim was in on an alternative.  Is it dead?
> >
> > that was zipi, which was dead quite some time ago.
> >
> >
> > >It sure seems
> > >silly that I'm going from USB to MIDI.  They told me that
in the future
> > >there would be flying cars and we'd all be wearing silver
jumpsuits. Our
> > >meals would be in pill form and we'd have a highspeed data
> > >language for musical instruments.  So where are they?
> >
> > probably someday you will fly your car to the martian guitar
center to
> > pick
> > up the first midi-the-next-generation device. (it will be
out of stock.)
> >
> > kim
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
> > kflint@loopers-delight.com    |