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RE: Eventide4 KIM

>From: Kim Flint <kflint@loopers-delight.com>
>Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>Subject: RE: Eventide4 KIM
>Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 02:22:48 -0700
>At 7:53 AM -0700 9/16/00, italo de angelis wrote:
> >>Ok KIM let me try to show you and all LD people  how an Eventide
> >>4000/7000/Orville works:
>thank you for all of the great details Italo. by the way, do you mind if I
>use some of your postings on the Eventide section of Looper's Delight?
>I've been waiting forever for somebody to show up here who actually used
>eventides for looping and had something to say about it. you more than fit
>that description. :-)
>You're welcome,Kim..You can use that and post it wherever you like on 
>LD...it's good for anybody, I hope.
> >The looping features DO NOT have undo, copy, multiply and other 
> >the Echoplex, even though Scott Gilfix has done nice programs in which 
> >can undo and double loop length by using buffer delays.
>well, he has a way to do one layer of undo, not multiple undos like the
> >YES Kim, you cannot do looping and sampling on the same audio chunk, 
> >that a sampler module does sampling,editing and looping of the sample 
> >delay module does delay style loopingÖBUT you can put both in the same
> >program and get both flavors of powerÖdoes it hurt anybody? Like it?
>it hurt us....we were looking at orville as a place to protoype new ideas.
>but it became clear some of its limitations prevented us from doing many 
>our basic concepts that we implemented in the echoplex long ago. no hope
>for the new ideas....
>It depends on what you WANT to consider as a STANDARD looper...to me it's 
>anything that has memory, audio input, feedback and overlay...heard what 
>awesome music Torn has being doing with a "miserable" PCM42 for so long, 
>right! Anything! I'm open..ddls, Jammen,EDPs, TC2290 (fripp), EH 
>H3000, DSP4000/7000, Orvilles, Repeaters...they all fit for me...some are 
>different from others, some are more reliable...and that counts for a 
>performer, some are just easy and poor in functions, but work 
>great...people has superprocessors or computers to do all sorts of 
>on loops, so it's hard to say what a REAL looper should be...it depends 
>each user.

>don't get me wrong, orville is clearly a very powerful signal processor.
>(with a very powerful price. :-)  but for all the types of standard 
>functions that are not DSP based, it seems rather limited. If what you 
>is very powerful DSP features to use with rather simple loop creation,
>orville may be for you.
>I don't think that Orville is that expensive! In USA you can get it for 
>price of 3 EDPs and one of its pedalboards...but what you can do is way 
>over beyond anything else...even boxes that cost 9 or 15 grands, like TC 
>6000 or Lexi 960L.
You know haow much is an EDP from Gibson here in Italy? littel more than 
1000 dollars, on custom order and no pedalboard...is that cheap?
> >2) trust a reliable software and hardware should be easy  in year 2000, 
> >youíre on stage, improvising and looping in front of people that pay 
> >to be there Ö.Iím a musician that does live and studio work, being the 
> >very inner resources demanding, especially when you use these toys.
> >3) see a product come to life and growing with updates that implement 
> >and exciting functions, killing old bugs and keeping the box up to the
> >usersí demands , dropping prices even if this means totally changing the
> >unit from almost scratchÖ
> >All this and more I donít see from Gibson!!! And believe me, I have 
> >personal with you! I think you did a wonderful job with Eds and still 
> >it, including keeping this awesome place open on the Net. You are an
> >invaluable human and tech resource to any interested human looper cat,
>sorry, but I don't think your accusations are at all fair to Matthias, or
>me, or even Gibson. The reason you don't see bugs in the software for the
>Echoplex is because we fixed them all already. We produced the updates and
>got them to users who needed it, and we did that long ago. And now, we are
>about to release a major new software version for the Echoplex that will 
>many exciting new things that nobody has ever seen before. Much of it is
>based on extensive interactions we've had with users on this list and
>otherwise.  And you know what? this upgrade doesn't mean changing the 
>thing from scratch. Everybody who has already paid their hard-earned
>dollars for the hardware can get it updated for a much smaller price. They
>don't have to throw away everything they already bought and get something
>new. I consider that a feature, not a problem!
>GREAT, KIM!!! This is the time to let us know what it can do...Repeater 
>really setting up a hot desire...this is the time, man!!!
>And we've steadily worked with Gibson all through the years to improve the
>hardware. We've fixed problems as they've come up, helped them improve
>their production, deal with vendors changing components, etc. Gibson has
>even invested in putting together a whole new production operation for the
>echoplex. The work on this has never stopped, and I find it quite
>frustrating that you keep accusing us of doing nothing. I don't think you
>know what you are talking about. There are not many companies who stick to
>a product for so long as this.
>Great, Kim but still the box is the same and the price tag higher...you 
>fixed what was supposed to be right since long time...talking about hard 
>earned money...why price is almost double than before?
> >but
> >you have to agrre that in 10 years companies have been doing incredible
> >boxes and cheaper than beforeÖisnít it time to update old boxes a bit?
> >What about a super ED with some more features? I know itís hard to have
> >companies listening to you and us but still the question remains.
>sorry, I think that attitude is bullshit. why do perfectly useful things
>need to be upgraded so often? Especially with music, where so many songs
>are composed around particular instruments and so much time goes into
>learning how to perform with a particular setup so you can make it 
>Why would you want to keep changing and starting over all the time?
>however, I must admit I'm very happy that you and others like you think
>this way. Since I work in the PC industry these days making 3d graphics
>chips, my nice salary is paid by people who think just like this. Every 
>months we put out new stuff, and market the hell out of it to convince you
>of how pathetic and inadequate the thing you just bought already is. The
>new one is faster! more memory! more features! you need it now! And people
>believe us and keep tossing out their old stuff and buying the new stuff
>even though the old thing worked just fine for them! do many people really
>need 1.2GHz CPUs, 60GB discs, and 180 frames per second in Quake? well, I
>sure don't, but my wallet is not complaining as long as the rest of you
>think you do. :-)
>now, do you really want that same scene for musical instruments?
>You're right Kim!!! I still use Atari 520stfm computer W/1MB ram and a 
>Pentium 166MMX windows 95 PC...I agree that companies make believe people 
>all that shit, turning bullshit into needs. I didn't mean changing boxes 
>every 6 or 60 months...but evolving them for sure.Harware when it needs 
>software to respect people's money.
16 years from an H3000 to todays Orville/7000 is a long long time...and 
things have been growing & improving, even changing a lot...doesn't it 
like a very long time for you for a digital product?...and respectful to 
user? I think you misunderstood my last words...anyway when something 
fine and sounds good, it doesn't matter to me how old it is, as long as 
reliable...now how long did it take to make EDP such? And did you get 
at the end? I've friends that had to shake their brand new EDP to make it 
work...does it take it so long to make it happen?
and this is definitely a Gibson fault! They have the power to fix this 
nice to talk to you about this all...ciao   ITALO
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